--- Log opened Tue Dec 01 00:00:14 2020
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2020-12-01T00:01:06 < Bluecoat> Is there a way to use the HAL I2C write commands and have it ignore not getting an ACK from the slave?
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2020-12-01T00:01:47 < Bluecoat> I want it to blind-write.
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2020-12-01T00:28:41 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2020-12-01T00:28:50 < Steffanx> Pizza
2020-12-01T00:29:46 < mawk> Steffanx: https://gitlab.serveur.io/nicolas/site/-/commit/21bdbca9ee921e5d0afb9b6af56102992663e2f1
2020-12-01T00:30:22 < Steffanx> 🤡
2020-12-01T00:31:05 < qyx> TIL Cardiff is the capital of Wales
2020-12-01T00:31:12 < qyx> every signle day some new information
2020-12-01T00:31:42 < qyx> also, for some reason, Wales is on the opposite side of GB as I though
2020-12-01T00:35:06 < Steffanx> Time for a holiday to Wales then
2020-12-01T00:35:29 < mawk> here Steffanx https://tricks.serveur.io/last-digits-nested-power-sum.html
2020-12-01T00:35:34 < mawk> with reminders just for you
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2020-12-01T00:36:27 < Steffanx> Ill try to read it one day mawk
2020-12-01T00:36:37 < mawk> no
2020-12-01T00:36:39 < mawk> now
2020-12-01T00:36:43 < mawk> read the added section
2020-12-01T00:36:45 < mawk> it's very easy
2020-12-01T00:52:12 < karlp> time to go and watch all of Torchwood qyx
2020-12-01T00:52:43 < zyp> somebody want a stm32 job? https://www.finn.no/job/fulltime/ad.html?finnkode=198741404
2020-12-01T00:53:48 < fenugrec> "Technologies we use : [...] Makefile" 
2020-12-01T00:53:56 < zyp> :D
2020-12-01T00:53:56 < qyx> STM32CubeMX
2020-12-01T00:53:57 < qyx> no thanks
2020-12-01T00:54:24 < qyx> how do you know it is stm32 based?
2020-12-01T00:54:27 < qyx> oh wait
2020-12-01T00:54:29 < qyx> nvm
2020-12-01T00:54:33 < zyp> haha
2020-12-01T00:55:36 < Bluecoat> qyx: get burned by cubeMX?  Or burned by coworkers using CubeMX? :-D
2020-12-01T00:56:47 < karlp> fuckin, never enoug time in the day
2020-12-01T00:56:53 < zyp> I had to register as a job seeker when I got covid-furloughed, this company apparently went through the list looking for candidates
2020-12-01T00:57:47 < Steffanx> And they didn't contact you?
2020-12-01T00:57:52 < zyp> they did
2020-12-01T00:57:56 < Steffanx> Ah
2020-12-01T00:57:58 < zyp> that's how I found it
2020-12-01T00:57:59 < Steffanx> Ok
2020-12-01T00:58:13 < zyp> got this «hey guys, found you on the list, pls take a look»
2020-12-01T00:59:10 < zyp> so I replied something along «looks fun but not really looking for a new job right now. can still drop by for a chat though»
2020-12-01T00:59:33 < Steffanx> Not drop by for a beer?
2020-12-01T00:59:35 < Steffanx> Or two
2020-12-01T00:59:50 < zyp> I've never gotten a job I've outright applied for, so maybe playing hard to get would work :p
2020-12-01T01:00:34 < zyp> all jobs I've ever had I've been refered by somebody
2020-12-01T01:02:50 < qyx> same here except one
2020-12-01T01:03:41 < zyp> first job I had out of uni, I got refered by one of my programming profs that were also working for that company
2020-12-01T01:03:55 < kakium69> cannot relate
2020-12-01T01:04:08 < zyp> and then all jobs since then by former coworkers
2020-12-01T01:04:38 < kakium69> and that is why you need to go to uni
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2020-12-01T01:04:56 < zyp> yeah
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2020-12-01T01:05:22 < zyp> that's probably the single most useful thing I got out of uni, just that connection
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2020-12-01T02:38:50  * antto pours some kakium69 onto molten aluminium
2020-12-01T02:40:00 < Laurenceb> argg radiance
2020-12-01T02:40:10 < Laurenceb> the trial and error development style
2020-12-01T02:40:17 < Laurenceb> its almost working now
2020-12-01T02:40:29 < Laurenceb> cpu hogger
2020-12-01T02:40:47 < antto> o hai therr mr Loirens
2020-12-01T02:42:04 < Laurenceb> helloo
2020-12-01T02:42:05 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55136137
2020-12-01T02:42:14 < Laurenceb> >babbyshake team work on insulation
2020-12-01T02:42:17 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2020-12-01T02:43:43 < antto> this is a "no-kekking" zone. kekking is prohibited.
2020-12-01T02:43:56 < fenugrec> newark is beating records : "Order expected to ship : 18 nov. Status : processing"
2020-12-01T02:44:00 < antto> violators will be shot on sight
2020-12-01T02:45:12 < antto> with a bazooka that shoots serious faces
2020-12-01T02:45:31 < Laurenceb> internet hate machine .png
2020-12-01T02:50:26 < Laurenceb> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/965/123/1d0.png
2020-12-01T02:50:49 < Laurenceb> >copyright infringement
2020-12-01T02:50:57 < Laurenceb> the horror
2020-12-01T02:55:10 < Laurenceb> the time to babbyshake was last year
2020-12-01T02:55:15 < Laurenceb> the time to recover is now
2020-12-01T02:55:40 < Laurenceb> >ceiling russian grrrl
2020-12-01T03:04:54 < specing> why is that pic so small
2020-12-01T03:05:01 < specing> was that the internet hate machine in 1990?
2020-12-01T03:05:36 < Laurenceb> lol
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2020-12-01T03:58:36 < brdb> anyone have familiarity with WS2811 specifically? i think the WS2812B LEDs are very similar
2020-12-01T03:59:20 < brdb> the stm32 timing is set up with DMA to perfectly match the expected 1.25us perior per bit, and 50us reset pulse is sent between sending all the data per LED
2020-12-01T03:59:59 < brdb> however, for some reason when the reset pulse is sent (no matter the length) the LEDs seem to ignore it, but "resetting" the micro causes some weird reset behavior for the LEDs and I have no idea why
2020-12-01T04:00:54 < brdb> these chinese datasheets and all the useless arduino references are maddening
2020-12-01T04:02:13 < brdb> maybe it's that i'm using the diode logic level shiftin gtrick, and low voltage is really 0.7mV and not 0 (3.3 to 5V shift)
2020-12-01T04:05:18 < brdb> i have no idea why resetting the micro twice (or flashing twice, same thing) causes the correct update on the LED string when the 50uS reset pulse is sent constantly between frames
2020-12-01T04:06:37 < MrMobius> brdb, 74LVC245?
2020-12-01T04:08:34 < brdb> yeah going to wait for that to ship. im guessing when the reset occurs the voltage is pulled actual low even though the chinese datasheet says Vil (V-input low) is 0.3*VDD (@VDD=5V)
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2020-12-01T04:12:29 < MrMobius> how about a transistor in the mean time?
2020-12-01T04:12:50 < MrMobius> with a pullup
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2020-12-01T04:36:11 < brdb> yeah that's what im thinking, according to ST the stm32f0 is 5V tolerant on voltage in, so that's technically good, but i'll try an external one to start
2020-12-01T04:36:16 < brdb> time to dig through the 3 legged pile
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2020-12-01T04:39:20 < englishman> draw a circuit of your actual setup
2020-12-01T04:39:31 < englishman> also fyi stm32s are 5v tolerant on most but not IOs
2020-12-01T04:39:40 < englishman> mot but not all*
2020-12-01T04:51:48 < brdb> circuit: https://i.imgur.com/JA907nX.png
2020-12-01T04:51:58 < brdb> forgot to mention I am using a shottky diode
2020-12-01T04:52:23 < brdb> unconnected for don't care cause lazy
2020-12-01T05:01:51 < englishman> isnt ws2011 half speed
2020-12-01T05:01:54 < englishman> ie 2.5us per bit
2020-12-01T05:03:17 < englishman> http://www.world-semi.com/DownLoadFile/129
2020-12-01T05:03:31 < englishman> thats quite different from the one on aidsfruit lol
2020-12-01T05:11:26 < brdb> it can be set to fast speed. the datasheet has a poor note of this stating that if the SET pin is tied correctly it's fast (e.g. 1.25us per bit)
2020-12-01T05:11:43 < brdb> the colors render fine, i imagine just my logic 0 is bad using the diode shifter
2020-12-01T05:12:13 < brdb> tried it with 2n3904s, but they couldn't keep up which is mildly surprising
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2020-12-01T05:26:23 < rajkosto> what about the trick of using one of them to redrive the signal for the next
2020-12-01T05:28:08 < rajkosto> nvm
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2020-12-01T08:08:10 < brdb> i figured it out, also was able to use open drain 5v tolerant setup englishman -- using the discovery board's 5v line is a bit safer than external
2020-12-01T08:08:24 < brdb> prevents 5V from being on before 3.3V (VDD), etc.
2020-12-01T08:08:51 < brdb> issue seems to surround the 50us reset pulse, the chinese datasheet lies and it needs to be some arbitrary amount an order of magnitude higher. seems like 300us works OK
2020-12-01T08:08:55 < brdb> i have no idea why
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2020-12-01T09:42:15 < Thorn> are bga stm32 (like 240+32 0.8mm) easier to route (fmc, ltdc) than qfp?
2020-12-01T10:12:35 < zyp> in terms of where the signals are located?
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2020-12-01T10:26:32 < Thorn> yeah maybe it's more like mp1 with ddr signals more conveniently located
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2020-12-01T12:25:30 < karlp> fucking teams, get senta  .txt log file, it opens it's owns previewer, with a scrollbar, but doesn't respect scroll wheeel, arrows or pageup/pagedown.
2020-12-01T12:25:32 < karlp> well done
2020-12-01T12:27:20 < mawk> teams is the only software that I have to close immediately after using because it makes my 8 core cpu spin 100% even when idle
2020-12-01T12:27:28 < mawk> someone left a while (true) {} in the source code or something
2020-12-01T12:27:51 < mawk> and I have to mute my mic when I don't talk because the fan is going 100%
2020-12-01T12:28:29 < mawk> they shipped the linux version without testing it
2020-12-01T12:28:41 < mawk> and is lacking behind on features, even though it's mostly electron stuff
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2020-12-01T13:05:49 < BrainDamage> a while true wouldn't clog all cores at once, you'd need to multithread it
2020-12-01T13:16:22 < karlp> the linux version mostly means I can at least be on meetings now.
2020-12-01T13:16:26 < karlp> web client was garbage on linux
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2020-12-01T13:33:57 < BrainDamage> that can be both a good and a bad thing
2020-12-01T13:35:52 < karlp> indeed :)
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2020-12-01T13:44:33 < jadew> I want an electric precision screwdriver - any suggestions on a model?
2020-12-01T13:53:09 < jpa-> jadew: when you've bought one and know it is good, tell me also :)
2020-12-01T13:56:18 < jadew> jpa-, I'm tempted to get the ES121
2020-12-01T13:56:51 < jadew> but I wonder if there are higher quality alternatives
2020-12-01T13:57:11 < karlp> surely a wowstick is at least a better name :)
2020-12-01T13:57:39 < jpa-> wowstick sounds like something you'd use in a bedroom
2020-12-01T13:57:46 < jadew> haha
2020-12-01T13:58:02 < zyp> who's to say you can't?
2020-12-01T13:58:07 < karlp> do you just sort of rotate that thing a little bit and it starts screwing that way?
2020-12-01T13:58:41 < jadew> karlp, that's the general idea, yeah
2020-12-01T13:59:14 < jpa-> i have a larger screwdriver (B&D gyrodriver) that works like that, it is actually pretty good method of control
2020-12-01T13:59:14 < jadew> I'm concerned about tightening tho, I don't know how much force you can apply at the end in order to properly fasten the screw
2020-12-01T14:01:10 < BrainDamage> I own a wowstick
2020-12-01T14:01:23 < jadew> BrainDamage, is it good?
2020-12-01T14:01:33 < BrainDamage> thhe max torque isn't fantastic, you can still tighten harder by hand
2020-12-01T14:01:50 < BrainDamage> but for 80% of the things it's ok
2020-12-01T14:02:17 < BrainDamage> I got the version with the 64 bit set, it includes a case for the the it tubes ... except for one
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2020-12-01T14:02:45 < BrainDamage> the tube storage for the bits is slightly awkward, but it works
2020-12-01T14:03:04 < BrainDamage> and you havee another canister to temp store the bits you're using
2020-12-01T14:03:29 < BrainDamage> for the price i'd say it's good
2020-12-01T14:04:22 < BrainDamage> I've also abused it as a drill to use a stripped screw extractor, and it did it ok
2020-12-01T14:06:07 < BrainDamage> oh, and in drill-related things, I have an al enclosure with a horizontal seam, and I'd like to drill a hole for a sma port with the mid centered on the seam, any advice? just clamp it on a vice after assembling it wit all the screws in place?
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2020-12-01T14:07:04 < jadew> BrainDamage, no, you'll fuck it up
2020-12-01T14:07:43 < jadew> make a guide first
2020-12-01T14:08:17 < jadew> take a piece of wood, drill through it with the drill you want to use and then position that on top of the work piece
2020-12-01T14:08:21 < jadew> and drill through the guide hole
2020-12-01T14:08:42 < BrainDamage> even if I have a drill press?
2020-12-01T14:08:50 < jadew> also, if you can put another piece of wood on the backside, that will help too
2020-12-01T14:08:58 < jadew> depends on the drill press
2020-12-01T14:09:25 < jadew> if it's not one of those expensive ones, it will still pull on the drill bit
2020-12-01T14:09:50 < BrainDamage> ok, i'll def go for the wooden guide then, thanks
2020-12-01T14:09:55 < jadew> and even with those, you need a stub drill bit, for sheet
2020-12-01T14:10:35 < jadew> the problem with sheet metal is that there's nothing on the other side to create a cone that keeps it centered
2020-12-01T14:10:38 < jpa-> a tiny hole saw could also work, but it is probably hard to find one small enough for SMA and meant for metal
2020-12-01T14:10:47 < jadew> so as it bites from the sheet metal, it gets pulled away from the center
2020-12-01T14:10:51 < jadew> leaving you with triangle holes
2020-12-01T14:11:28 < jpa-> jadew: heh, so obvious now that you say it; i've always been annoyed by the triangular holes
2020-12-01T14:12:17 < jadew> jpa-, me too :)
2020-12-01T14:18:20 < zyp> step drills are great when you're drilling sheet
2020-12-01T14:20:07 < zyp> drilling the seam sounds annoying though
2020-12-01T14:20:39 < zyp> I don't think I'd even attempt that without some wood to back it, otherwise both sides would deform away from the seam around the hole
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2020-12-01T14:21:09 < BrainDamage> the seam has an inner lop
2020-12-01T14:21:16 < BrainDamage> lip*
2020-12-01T14:21:31 < BrainDamage> so there's some thickness at least to drill through
2020-12-01T14:21:46 < BrainDamage> but I'll still add a chunk of wood to lengthen it
2020-12-01T14:22:26 < BrainDamage> I'll also drill a guide hole for the main bit
2020-12-01T14:23:20 < zyp> https://no.rs-online.com/web/p/specialist-drill-bits/1238510/ <- I'd get something like this
2020-12-01T14:23:55 < BrainDamage> heh, I aways wanted to geet one, might as well use the excuse
2020-12-01T14:24:11 < zyp> the one I got is steeper, I got it for 16mm holes
2020-12-01T14:24:11 < jpa-> i'd mark the location and file away :P
2020-12-01T14:24:35 < zyp> so not as useful for SMA-sized holes
2020-12-01T14:26:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IX88h.jpg <- originally picked it up to do the holes for the conduits here
2020-12-01T14:26:48 < zyp> enclosure had half-punched holes, but they were the wrong size and number :)
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2020-12-01T15:20:18 < Thorn> jlcpcb updated their design rules, now you can officially [try to] use a 0.8mm bga
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2020-12-01T15:32:56 < mawk> you're assembling it yourself Thorn ?
2020-12-01T15:33:17 < Thorn> dunno yet lol
2020-12-01T15:34:16 < Thorn> although a 0.1mm trace gives 59Ω impedance, stm32mp1 recommends 55Ω ± 10%, so it barely fits
2020-12-01T15:34:22 < Thorn> (for ddr3)
2020-12-01T15:34:35 < mawk> well it fits right
2020-12-01T15:34:50 < Thorn> and you can't properly terminate the flyby bus on a 4-layer board afaict
2020-12-01T15:34:51 < mawk> recommended margins are usually far from the absolute maximum margins
2020-12-01T15:35:02 < mawk> unless they say otherwise
2020-12-01T15:35:09 < Thorn> which may not be a big problem with 1 memory chip
2020-12-01T15:35:29 < mawk> what are you doing with the mpu thing?
2020-12-01T15:38:06 < Thorn> whatever comes to mind. hmi panel, iot base station, .............
2020-12-01T15:38:23 < Thorn> seems like a pretty universal chip
2020-12-01T15:41:33 < englishman> why not Octavo
2020-12-01T15:42:18 < Thorn> that's for moneyed westerners
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2020-12-01T15:47:33 < englishman> how much is it really vs. the components and pcb and routing time that you have to solder by hand
2020-12-01T15:48:07 < englishman> mp1, pmic, ram, sitime oscillator
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2020-12-01T15:50:22 < karlp> remember, every prototoype is just a temporarily inconveniced mass consumer electronics design win.
2020-12-01T15:50:29 < karlp> you _must_ optimize for cost up front!
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2020-12-01T16:10:20 < Thorn> oh wait they actually describe a no-termination option in the ddr3 appnote
2020-12-01T16:10:34 < Thorn> either it wasn't there a few months ago or I missed it
2020-12-01T16:12:24 < mawk> they would say in the changelog at the bottom
2020-12-01T16:13:40 < karlp> maybe
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2020-12-01T16:20:07 < Thorn> the only problem is I've never set up embedded lunix for a custom target before and I don't really want to deal with it either
2020-12-01T16:21:39 < mawk> well just ask around
2020-12-01T16:21:46 < mawk> even I did some stuff with yocto and buildroot
2020-12-01T16:21:51 < mawk> but anyway ST provides everything to get started
2020-12-01T16:21:53 < karlp> eh, "just" a few device tree nodes...
2020-12-01T16:22:03 < mawk> device tree is fun
2020-12-01T16:22:32 < karlp> better than staring at a blob of C and going, "hrm, what magical api calls can I make to register hardwar,e and what structures do they need presented to them?" 
2020-12-01T16:22:47 < karlp> at least device tree bindings are documented 
2020-12-01T16:24:17 < mawk> for the pi I was able to write my own device tree fragment to load the mrf24j40 driver to do 6lowpan, and it worked after not even a day of digging into that stuff
2020-12-01T16:24:19 < mawk> it's not really hard
2020-12-01T16:24:42 < mawk> and I wrote the same thing for the beaglebone black as well, almost identical
2020-12-01T16:32:24 < karlp> man, how shitty must your personal debt situation be or something to be still working at imagination
2020-12-01T16:32:40 < karlp> continually getting bitso fyou sold back and forth, no fucking clue what you're doing for who when
2020-12-01T16:32:56 < karlp> it's not hard now, because someone else had it hard years ago
2020-12-01T16:34:59 < mawk> I'm trying to understand what you mean but it's a bit hard lol
2020-12-01T16:35:14 < mawk> you mean me? I'm almost debt-free, I'm just poor
2020-12-01T16:36:18 < mawk> depending on how you count it's more or less 5k€
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2020-12-01T16:37:35 < mawk> then the rest I don't understand
2020-12-01T16:38:32 < mawk> if I don't set foot in France for the next 5 years, I just owe 3k€ to a bank, otherwise it's 2k extra to justice
2020-12-01T16:39:08 < mawk> growing every year at the legal interest rate, but prescription after some time, and the legal interest rate is very low so it's a better idea to just hide
2020-12-01T16:50:43 < karlp> imagination the mips/powervr company
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2020-12-01T16:56:00 < Thorn> moon landing live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO_PsBHPRxs
2020-12-01T17:00:24 < Thorn> well was live lol
2020-12-01T17:14:49 < jadew> "For unknown reasons, the broadcast ended before the landing sequence started. Therefore, the broadcast did not have any views of the moon landing attempt."
2020-12-01T17:14:57 < jadew> space force
2020-12-01T17:15:36 < mawk> lol
2020-12-01T17:15:42 < mawk> fake landing
2020-12-01T17:15:54 < mawk> you can't trust the chinese
2020-12-01T17:16:15 < jadew> now martians have covid too
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2020-12-01T18:48:46 < Laurenceb> has anyone got a linker script for the chips in the covid 19 vaccine?
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2020-12-01T19:19:24 < specing> llol
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2020-12-01T20:20:26 < englishman> PDN analyzer is $2k plus $600/year lmao
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2020-12-01T22:53:33 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/8RBxflzkyg4 So part 2 of Part 2 is Up 
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2020-12-01T22:54:46 < karlp> what's pdn analyser?
2020-12-01T22:55:05 < karlp> oh altium trying to charge even more?
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2020-12-01T23:01:10 < Steffanx> Whats PDN analyzer? 
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2020-12-01T23:12:18 < brdb> if you were to want a simple visualizer using the stm32, would you use the arm cmsis dsp libs or something more modular such as the fftw libs?
2020-12-01T23:18:09 < brdb> nevermind fftw is definitely not straightforward, time for a lazy fft C implementation
2020-12-01T23:20:41 < brdb> small LUT with sine/cosine will be good'nuff
2020-12-01T23:25:05 < karlp> cmsis dspworks pretty wel
2020-12-01T23:25:20 < machinehum> Not hard to implement cmsis dsp
2020-12-01T23:32:19 < kakium69> evening sires
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2020-12-01T23:35:56 < Steffanx> gooday mr kakium69
2020-12-01T23:36:25 < brdb> actually i don't think the F0 has dsp capabilities, F3 and above I believe?
2020-12-01T23:47:54 < machinehum> 6vdc motor... can I just PWM 12V 50% duc on it
2020-12-01T23:48:03 < machinehum> Or will the coils sat and get all shitty
--- Day changed Wed Dec 02 2020
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2020-12-02T00:31:33 < karlp> brdb: it runs on f0 just fine, just not as fast.
2020-12-02T00:31:47 < karlp> there's m0 and m0+ optimized portions of the cmsis-dsp lib where possible
2020-12-02T00:32:10 < karlp> not having any "dsp tailored instructions" doesn't mean you can run dsp code.
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2020-12-02T01:50:46 < englishman> karlp Steffanx: the power simulator plugin for altium
2020-12-02T01:51:19 < englishman> altium salesman are always so high pressure
2020-12-02T01:51:40 < englishman> hey if you spend $3k before the end of the day it's the end of our quarter blah blah
2020-12-02T01:55:22 < karlp> yeah, I googled it, decided it wasn't relevant :)
2020-12-02T01:55:35 < karlp> qyx: (much more) g4 in locm3 now...
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2020-12-02T01:59:20 < englishman> it looks handy as a plugin tho
2020-12-02T01:59:27 < englishman> they will be sending me a trial
2020-12-02T01:59:45 < englishman> it would have caught some ground plane issues I think
2020-12-02T02:01:33 < zyp> brdb, depends what «dsp capabilities» mean to you, it's all software anyway
2020-12-02T02:02:12 < zyp> if you want simd instructions, you need something with cortex-m4 (or 7 for that matter)
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2020-12-02T03:34:46 < englishman> anyone worked with laser galvos
2020-12-02T03:35:03 < englishman> any decent cheapo ones to recommend or just the aliexpress 20kpps ones
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2020-12-02T04:23:11 < brdb> merry chrimbus y'all https://i.imgur.com/URbll3y.png
2020-12-02T04:24:04 < englishman> i have the same psu
2020-12-02T04:24:06 < englishman> did you hax it
2020-12-02T04:24:23 < brdb> not the psu, but riglol'd the scope that's for sure
2020-12-02T04:24:29 < brdb> what do you get with the psu englishman 
2020-12-02T04:24:35 < englishman> resolution iirc
2020-12-02T04:24:39 < brdb> orly
2020-12-02T04:25:16 < brdb> would need a good DMM to validate that hah, Siglent had a fairly decent DMM (5.5 digit) for sale - might still be on sale
2020-12-02T04:25:57 < englishman> i like the keithley
2020-12-02T04:27:04 < brdb> there's the high roller
2020-12-02T04:27:15 < englishman> http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/
2020-12-02T04:27:19 < englishman> dp832 right at the top
2020-12-02T04:27:30 < brdb> cheers englishman
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2020-12-02T04:28:20 < brdb> zyp: i think for my application (crappy audio "visualizer") i can just roll my own rfft function, thus the look-up-table for sin/cos values if i really care about speed
2020-12-02T04:28:45 < brdb> karlp: good to know of the dsp non-limitations :)
2020-12-02T04:29:38 < brdb> consequently as I started this WS2811 project, mikeselectricstuff on YT did a video on it that better explained the timings than the arduino "import fastled" videos
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2020-12-02T11:31:57 < jpa-> zyp: turns out the weird usb register values were in fact due to my crash dump script.. forgot to divide some addresses by /4 when making indexes to array and it just returned garbage; and depending on state of firmware it either returned sane looking garbage or insane looking garbage
2020-12-02T11:32:30 < zyp> :)
2020-12-02T11:32:30 < jpa-> seems like OTGFS returns the data for the last successful read when you read address that doesn't exist
2020-12-02T11:33:11 < zyp> are you sure you're looking at addrs that don't exist and not alias addrs?
2020-12-02T11:34:17 < zyp> IIRC all the fifos have a range each that they'll respond to, the idea being that you can feed/consume them with memcpy() or similar that increments the pointer
2020-12-02T11:34:53 < jpa-> ah, could be that
2020-12-02T11:35:07 < jpa-> and once the fifo is empty it starts returning the same value
2020-12-02T11:35:17 < zyp> yeah, that's what I figured
2020-12-02T11:39:40 < jpa-> looks like all my endpoints have NAKSTS=1.. i guess that could explain why data is not moving
2020-12-02T11:41:06 < zyp> what was the issue again? usb breaks but everything else keeps working?
2020-12-02T11:41:34 < jpa-> yeah
2020-12-02T11:42:19 < jpa-> it might be that *something* is failing to queue a read request on the OUT endpoints
2020-12-02T11:42:40 < zyp> on all of them?
2020-12-02T11:43:57 < jpa-> looks like DOEPCTL0 = 0x80008000 is not NAKing, and there is only one bulk out endpoint, multiple in endpoints
2020-12-02T11:44:11 < jpa-> but the IN endpoints being NAK is normal anyway if it has nothing to send
2020-12-02T11:44:35 < zyp> okay, so the only abnormal one is the bulk endpoint NAKing
2020-12-02T11:44:39 < jpa-> yeah
2020-12-02T11:44:50 < jpa-> have to see how my usb request queue looks like
2020-12-02T11:45:03 < jpa-> it's been wonderfully long since i last had to dig into how usb works..
2020-12-02T11:45:55 < zyp> which stack is this?
2020-12-02T11:47:16 < jpa-> nuttx
2020-12-02T11:47:29 < jpa-> and rndis on top of it
2020-12-02T11:47:37 < jpa-> and tcp and http and everything
2020-12-02T11:47:42 < zyp> fun
2020-12-02T11:47:47 < jpa-> very
2020-12-02T11:47:58 < jpa-> i hope i have enough global pointers to at least find a starting point :P
2020-12-02T11:48:42 < jpa-> debugging code that goes like     foo *dev = create_driver_instance();  /* leak *dev, we will never release it anyway */    is so fun to debug
2020-12-02T11:48:58 < zyp> haha
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2020-12-02T11:50:43 < zyp> seems meaningless to put stuff on a heap if you're never gonna free it anyway
2020-12-02T11:51:40 < jpa-> yeah, but i guess it makes sense for reusability to allow for the case where someone might want to free their OTGFS driver... because.. you just might want to
2020-12-02T11:52:07 < zyp> in C++ it's somewhat useful to avoid global constructors if they want arguments you don't have at global initialization time
2020-12-02T11:52:21 < zyp> but in that case generally more useful to just not write constructors that do
2020-12-02T12:04:02 < qyx> karlp: we are considering ther possibility to implement some stuff as a pay work
2020-12-02T12:04:20 < qyx> as we need fdcan
2020-12-02T12:04:25 < qyx> I'll check, thanks
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2020-12-02T12:10:52 < karlp> can's an area where I generally just have to trust the contributors, so I just merge it, Ive got no hardware :)
2020-12-02T12:11:02 < karlp> and the fdcan on g4 is a new periph right?
2020-12-02T12:11:33 < srk> yes
2020-12-02T12:12:25 < karlp> so "easy" to merge, just don't make it gross :)
2020-12-02T12:13:53 < qyx> :D
2020-12-02T12:15:32 < srk> is there a fdcan driver in cm3? I've noticed a PR with registers a while ago
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2020-12-02T12:20:45 < karlp> oh right, it was a soup, it has unresolved comments, and it tried to import code from linux-can gpl. so... *shrugs* https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/1166
2020-12-02T12:22:02 < karlp> I still find it problematic that people think they can go "inspired a lot by this othe code, so... I'm putting a copyright notice from 10 years ago with someone elses name on this file here"
2020-12-02T12:22:04 < karlp> like, no.
2020-12-02T12:23:01 < karlp> it was all done by people new to locm3, using new platforms, so it doesn't really have any relation to any existing code at all.
2020-12-02T12:30:16 < jadew> ffs.. I know people that have been working closely with technical folks for more than 10 years, and after all this time they still report problems like: "It's not working."
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2020-12-02T12:32:24 < srk> karlp: fun, I was talking to Pavel Pisa mentioned there in Prague like two years ago. he had FoC stepper controller with two spartan 5 fpgas :)
2020-12-02T12:32:32 < srk> jadew: happens to me as well :(
2020-12-02T12:33:54 < srk> fdcan looks interesting but I only have one G4 and the rest are all L4/F4/F7 so no switch anytime soon
2020-12-02T12:42:47 < zyp> I wonder how feasible it'd be to run ip over fdcan, e.g. by using methods similar to 6lowpan
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2020-12-02T12:56:41 < srk> like you encapsulate anything into anything. I wish there were things like slspi or sli2c, similar to slcan for encapsulating can to uart
2020-12-02T12:57:25 < srk> *you can
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2020-12-02T12:58:23 < zyp> well, yeah
2020-12-02T12:59:06 < zyp> for workstuff I have serial console over can
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2020-12-02T13:00:59 < zyp> got two mcus in a box with CAN on a connector, they each have one ID for console TX and one for console RX
2020-12-02T13:01:22 < zyp> and a stm32f042 based thing that plugs into it and presents it as two ACM interfaces
2020-12-02T13:02:21 < zyp> the problem with IP is that headers are big, and even fdcan has a MTU of 64
2020-12-02T13:05:48 < srk> bit of packet disassembly and reassembly needed :)
2020-12-02T13:08:32 < zyp> yeah, I guess since fdcan should have a bunch more throughput than 802.15.4, header compression is not as essential
2020-12-02T13:20:49 < Steffanx> kakium69 musics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCfcpsIssNE&feature=youtu.be
2020-12-02T13:23:33 < Steffanx> fyi its actually about the text not really the music. It a pretty literal translation of a 40 years old dutch song.
2020-12-02T13:23:51 < Steffanx> *lyrics
2020-12-02T13:28:54 < englishman> very festive
2020-12-02T13:29:36 < englishman> poor flappie ;-(
2020-12-02T13:30:39 < Steffanx> Yeah, nice xmas song
2020-12-02T13:32:27 < englishman> the canadian christmas tradition is to listen to the fireside al reading of the shepherd
2020-12-02T13:32:37 < englishman> https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-shepherd-edition-2017-1.4455219/fireside-al-maitland-reads-frederick-forsyth-s-the-shepherd-1.4458378
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2020-12-02T15:00:58 < Thorn> are li-ion batteries ill suited for a battery backup application because they would degrade quickly when kept fully charged all the time?
2020-12-02T15:02:38 < mawk> why I don't believe in god: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoMSca7XMAEaJq8?format=png&name=900x900
2020-12-02T15:12:08 < zyp> Thorn, I think it's mostly a matter of cost
2020-12-02T15:12:37 < PaulFertser> Also, you can use a bigger battery and keep it at 80 %.
2020-12-02T15:12:40 < Thorn> what is I only need 4 or 6 of them
2020-12-02T15:12:55 < zyp> SLA is cheap and for a stationary battery backup the weight disadvantage is mostly irrelevant
2020-12-02T15:16:11 < zyp> although https://news.energysage.com/lithium-ion-vs-lead-acid-batteries/ claims that lifetime costs of SLA vs liion are comparable
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2020-12-02T15:26:00 < mawk> hey Steffanx today is the anniversary of Napoléon's consecration
2020-12-02T15:26:14 < mawk> don't you want to give your house to France as a gift on this special day?
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2020-12-02T15:27:21 < mawk> zyp: header compression isn't for throughput, it's for size, like you said
2020-12-02T15:27:35 < mawk> but minimal MTU required by 802.15.4 is 128 I think?
2020-12-02T15:27:41 < mawk> it's been some time
2020-12-02T15:28:21 < zyp> well, for a given capacity, actual throughput depends on overhead size :)
2020-12-02T15:28:34 < mawk> yes
2020-12-02T15:28:42 < mawk> well if your header is larger than mtu, there's nothing you can do
2020-12-02T15:28:51 < zyp> sure you can, just fragment it
2020-12-02T15:29:46 < mawk> then fragment again in the ip layer?
2020-12-02T15:29:57 < zyp> yes :)
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2020-12-02T15:31:19 < Thorn> does anyone actually use 6lowpan irl?
2020-12-02T15:31:35 < zyp> thread is based on 6lowpan IIRC
2020-12-02T15:31:45 < mawk> yes
2020-12-02T15:31:54 < mawk> dot too, I think
2020-12-02T15:32:27 < mawk> well dot's website is gone, I guess this thing died
2020-12-02T15:32:41 < mawk> but was 6lowpan
2020-12-02T15:33:01 < zyp> anyway, I figure fdcan is a reasonably reliable medium, so fragmenting whole IP packets would probably work out well without too much logic needed
2020-12-02T15:33:46 < mawk> but mtu 64 is enough to not have to fragment at the can layer, why not let 6lowpan do it?
2020-12-02T15:33:46 < BrainDamage> if the header is a fixed size, fragmentation is not an issue
2020-12-02T15:34:04 < mawk> the size depends on flags inside the header itself
2020-12-02T15:34:15 < mawk> but most of the time it's same size I guess
2020-12-02T15:34:50 < zyp> could probably do USB-style fragmentation, where one frame is split into MPS-sized packets except the last
2020-12-02T15:35:48 < zyp> ip header/checksum alone would probably be enough to catch errors and tcp will handle retransmit
2020-12-02T15:36:15 < mawk> they did a tcp spec for 6lowpan now?
2020-12-02T15:36:24 < zyp> could optionally wrap the whole to add a magic/checksum
2020-12-02T15:36:30 < zyp> not talking about 6lowpan
2020-12-02T15:36:30 < mawk> I thought it was still a draft 
2020-12-02T15:36:30 < karlp> "now" ?
2020-12-02T15:36:39 < zyp> I'm talking about ip over fdcan
2020-12-02T15:36:39 < karlp> wat?
2020-12-02T15:37:05 < englishman> got the PDN analyzer demo
2020-12-02T15:37:06 < zyp> just mentioned 6lowpan since they also do ip over low-MTU-stuff
2020-12-02T15:37:07 < englishman> it's very cool.
2020-12-02T15:38:14 < zyp> sounds expensive
2020-12-02T15:38:21 < englishman> $2k plus $600/year
2020-12-02T15:38:26 < englishman> too much imo
2020-12-02T15:39:07 < GyrosGeier> [200~14:36 < mawk> they did a tcp spec for 6lowpan now?
2020-12-02T15:39:23 < GyrosGeier> I remember doing TCP over 6lowPAN ten years ago
2020-12-02T15:39:32 < GyrosGeier> with uIP stack on MSP430
2020-12-02T15:39:47 < karlp> mawk forgot that tcp is ontop of ip...
2020-12-02T15:40:07 < zyp> haha
2020-12-02T15:40:13 < mawk> wel you need header compression
2020-12-02T15:40:17 < mawk> it's not regular udp or regular tcp
2020-12-02T15:40:27 < karlp> yes....
2020-12-02T15:40:36 < karlp> it's IP header compression in 6lowpan
2020-12-02T15:40:43 < mawk> not only that
2020-12-02T15:40:49 < mawk> there's next-header compression for udp or tcp
2020-12-02T15:40:59 < zyp> aren't tcp/udp headers small enough already?
2020-12-02T15:41:06 < karlp> complerely unrequired though 
2020-12-02T15:41:13 < karlp> you get a mtu of 1400 or something on 6lowpan
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2020-12-02T15:44:46 < mawk> sure, but it's always good to have the smallest size
2020-12-02T15:44:55 < mawk> but I guess it doesn't matter with can
2020-12-02T15:45:20 < jadew> does anyone know how reliable glued heatsinks are? can they fall off?
2020-12-02T15:45:42 < zyp> depends how well you glue them and how you abuse them afterwards, no?
2020-12-02T15:46:09 < jadew> yeah, but have you encountered one that just came off?
2020-12-02T15:46:20 < jadew> I'm worried it could fall and short stuff
2020-12-02T15:46:59 < jadew> and for a mechanically fastened one I have to make a custom one :/
2020-12-02T15:49:43 < zyp> hmm
2020-12-02T15:50:10 < zyp> gcc-arm-embedded 2020-q2 is still latest
2020-12-02T15:50:44 < zyp> but apparently it was released along with a gcc10 preview
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2020-12-02T16:21:37 < englishman> DC current certainly has some weird effects
2020-12-02T16:21:40 < englishman> on gndplanes
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2020-12-02T16:26:45 < jadew> like... heating it up?
2020-12-02T16:27:28 < Steffanx> Jadew here we have products with heatsinks taped to the pcb
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2020-12-02T16:28:03 < jadew> with double side adhesive tape?
2020-12-02T16:28:05 < Steffanx> Works fine as long as you use the right tape and apply it properly 
2020-12-02T16:28:09 < Steffanx> Yeah
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2020-12-02T16:28:36 < jadew> yeah... that's what I was thinking about... it seems to be the simplest solution
2020-12-02T16:28:37 < Steffanx> Although in the first series the wrong tape was used and applied improperly-_-
2020-12-02T16:28:42 < Steffanx> Batch*
2020-12-02T16:28:42 < jadew> but my thing will be mounted vertically
2020-12-02T16:28:56 < jadew> and I'm afraid it will peal off and fall inside the instrument
2020-12-02T16:28:57 < Steffanx> Same.
2020-12-02T16:29:32 < Steffanx> I must say, I probably wouldn't have gone for the current solution, but... yeah
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2020-12-02T16:29:53 < Steffanx> But hw engineers are convinced its fine
2020-12-02T16:29:56 < mawk> and a bracket around it jadew ?
2020-12-02T16:30:01 < mawk> then you don't have to modify the heatsink itself
2020-12-02T16:30:14 < mawk> just in case tape fails
2020-12-02T16:31:07 < jadew> there are limited ways in which I can mount the bracket
2020-12-02T16:32:16 < jadew> I want to make another version of this, which will require a heatsink: https://cojotech.com/media/images/hpo-100-front.jpg
2020-12-02T16:32:30 < jadew> now... I can either put the heatsink on the shield, or on the back of the PCB
2020-12-02T16:32:34 < jadew> below the shield
2020-12-02T16:32:44 < jadew> inside the shield there's room for 1 screw
2020-12-02T16:33:28 < mawk> and the pcb conducts the heat good enough?
2020-12-02T16:33:32 < mawk> if it's on the back
2020-12-02T16:33:35 < jadew> when mounted on the back, the heatsink can't extend past the right side of the shield because it hits the SMA connector
2020-12-02T16:33:53 < jadew> mawk, yeah, better than the shield
2020-12-02T16:34:04 < mawk> ah I see
2020-12-02T16:34:09 < jadew> but I'd be happy to have it on either side
2020-12-02T16:34:40 < jadew> also, I can't extend the board in either direction
2020-12-02T16:34:46 < jadew> except maybe make it a little longer
2020-12-02T16:34:54 < jadew> but the top side is already at the limit
2020-12-02T16:35:41 < jadew> and changing the shield position in relation to the connector is difficult because of the layout inside
2020-12-02T16:37:09 < jadew> right now I'm thinking about finding a heatsink that can use the one screw I can put inside and 3 more on the outside
2020-12-02T16:37:24 < jadew> that would be good, then I can just put it on the backside and be done with it
2020-12-02T16:39:48 < jadew> I actually found a heatsink that would have been great, if only it was a different shape
2020-12-02T16:47:54 < zyp> how about just throwing some thermally conductive shit between board and enclosure and sink the heat right into the enclosure?
2020-12-02T16:48:19 < jadew> thought about that, but I don't know where I would mount that
2020-12-02T16:48:44 < jadew> it would basically turn the board into a double sided one
2020-12-02T16:49:01 < zyp> don't you get those sponge like things that you can just stick on the back of the board?
2020-12-02T16:49:20 < jadew> oh, the distance is kinda big
2020-12-02T16:49:25 < jadew> ~10 mm
2020-12-02T16:49:29 < zyp> on both sides?
2020-12-02T16:49:43 < jadew> so it would have to be some sort of metal springy thing
2020-12-02T16:50:09 < jadew> that's the closest side
2020-12-02T16:50:41 < zyp> how about just a slab of alu then? :)
2020-12-02T16:50:58 < zyp> bolt it to the enclosure then board to the slab
2020-12-02T16:51:23 < jadew> that crossed my mind too... but the board doesn't align perfectly with the enclosure
2020-12-02T16:51:39 < jadew> because the angle is dictated by the front panel
2020-12-02T16:51:43 < zyp> I assume you enclosure is airtight, so sinking the heat into the internal air doesn't make much sense
2020-12-02T16:51:49 < zyp> your
2020-12-02T16:51:53 < jadew> no, it's not
2020-12-02T16:51:58 < jadew> it mounts inside a HP counter
2020-12-02T16:52:02 < jadew> there's air flow in there
2020-12-02T16:52:03 < zyp> ah
2020-12-02T16:52:05 < zyp> nevermind then
2020-12-02T16:53:07 < englishman> let me post some images
2020-12-02T16:53:52 < englishman> voltage changes quite significantly across a gndplane depending on how you place vias
2020-12-02T16:54:12 < englishman> the issue was we were seeing some offset issue when charging batt
2020-12-02T16:54:15 < jadew> yeah, current density does that
2020-12-02T16:54:36 < englishman> there were just a few uV getting into an opamps but just one opamp
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2020-12-02T16:55:25 < fenugrec> heh, "everything is a resistor"
2020-12-02T16:55:27 < jadew> the worst part is that DC current doesn't follow a straight path
2020-12-02T16:55:42 < zyp> DC? not AC?
2020-12-02T16:55:47 < englishman> idk if this soft is worth this much $ but it is cool
2020-12-02T16:55:48 < englishman> dc
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2020-12-02T16:56:57 < jadew> englishman, one that can simulate current flow?
2020-12-02T16:57:30 < zyp> I mean, return current follows path of least impedance, and the higher the frequency is, the closer that'll follow turns in the outbound trace
2020-12-02T16:58:13 < englishman> while everyone is here does anyone have any laser galvos to recommend
2020-12-02T16:58:23 < jadew> zyp, yeah, but in case of DC, the least impedance could be a round trip around the board
2020-12-02T16:58:29 < zyp> for DC I'd expect it to mostly take straight lines with bends around obstructions
2020-12-02T16:58:32 < jadew> screwing up your offsets all over the place
2020-12-02T16:58:49 < zyp> how do you figure?
2020-12-02T16:59:04 < englishman> esp around vias there are weird patterns that look like solar flares
2020-12-02T16:59:54 < jadew> zyp, I read it somewhere, because it's DC it doesn't flow through one patch, but through the entire patch
2020-12-02T17:00:02 < jadew> and it can have higher density in particular areas
2020-12-02T17:00:35 < jadew> there were some simulations on the topic and in some cases most of the current would go around the edges of the gnd pour
2020-12-02T17:01:27 < jadew> s/most/more/
2020-12-02T17:01:28 < jpa-> i'd expect the fact that copper resistance increases when it heats up to even it out pretty quickly
2020-12-02T17:01:39 < zyp> how many layers are we talking? two with a pour on either side, or enough to have dedicated ground layers?
2020-12-02T17:01:43 < jadew> jpa-, depends how hot you get it
2020-12-02T17:02:02 < jpa-> jadew: and also on the initial resistance differences between areas
2020-12-02T17:02:04 < jadew> zyp, the experiments were done with just one layer
2020-12-02T17:02:06 < jadew> just GND
2020-12-02T17:02:19 < zyp> just a flat uniform layer?
2020-12-02T17:02:24 < jadew> yeah
2020-12-02T17:02:55 < zyp> then I don't see how the majority of a DC current wouldn't take the straight line between the two points
2020-12-02T17:03:47 < jadew> it travels in a stable field, so there's no additional impedance created by the EM field
2020-12-02T17:04:35 < jadew> so it would only go straight if the resistance would be uniform I guess
2020-12-02T17:04:38 < jadew> ¿
2020-12-02T17:04:50 < jadew> not sure how I wrote that ? lol
2020-12-02T17:05:22 < jpa-> zyp: how wide line? :)
2020-12-02T17:05:26 < zyp> I figure a flat layer should have a reasonably uniform thickness and hence resistance
2020-12-02T17:05:42 < jadew> zyp, that's true, I was surprised by the findings too
2020-12-02T17:05:49 < jadew> let me see if I can find anything on the subject online
2020-12-02T17:05:57 < zyp> jpa-, depends on layer thickness and current, and it's gonna be thicker in the middle
2020-12-02T17:06:30 < zyp> I mean, this is all ohm's law
2020-12-02T17:07:12 < zyp> the voltage drop between the two points would be the same for all paths, so the higher the resistance is, the lower current it'll see
2020-12-02T17:07:24 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/QFVOAYT.png
2020-12-02T17:07:27 < englishman> current density map
2020-12-02T17:07:38 < englishman> both the source and load in this simulation are quite far away
2020-12-02T17:07:41 < englishman> this is the analolgue section
2020-12-02T17:07:41 < zyp> jpa-, I figure it's similar to the infinite grid of resistors problem :)
2020-12-02T17:07:55 < mawk> I tried it but couldn't solve it
2020-12-02T17:08:15 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/je2q4Gf.png
2020-12-02T17:08:19 < englishman> same simulation with a ground plane split
2020-12-02T17:08:32 < englishman> this could actually be much worse
2020-12-02T17:08:36 < jadew> englishman, are those vias?
2020-12-02T17:08:39 < englishman> yes
2020-12-02T17:08:58 < fenugrec> nice gradients
2020-12-02T17:08:59 < zyp> black are vias passing through and blue are vias connecting?
2020-12-02T17:09:11 < englishman> exactly
2020-12-02T17:09:22 < zyp> makes sense
2020-12-02T17:09:37 < jpa-> englishman's simulation appears like current flows everywhere.. what is what i'd expect, because the paths it uses most would heat up until they are used evenly
2020-12-02T17:10:12 < englishman> yes. like an infinite network of resistors
2020-12-02T17:10:38 < jpa-> if the resistors had a constant resistance, i'd expect the current to be more like a blurry line between the points, like zyp says
2020-12-02T17:11:00 < fenugrec> I don't think thermal feedback can ever fully equalize current paths...
2020-12-02T17:11:17 < jadew> well, if you have enough current, it might
2020-12-02T17:11:25 < jadew> but yeah, I don't think it will have a huge effect either
2020-12-02T17:11:37 < jadew> probably thickness irregularities will have more of an effect
2020-12-02T17:12:13 < jpa-> not fully
2020-12-02T17:12:18 < jpa-> it will be a gain effect
2020-12-02T17:12:24 < jadew> also, if you don't have perfect decoupling, which you won't... that map is not going to hold
2020-12-02T17:12:33 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/qTeqUVc.png
2020-12-02T17:12:38 < englishman> one or two toasty vias in there
2020-12-02T17:13:37 < zyp> :)
2020-12-02T17:16:06 < jadew> I wasted several hours on this heatsink problem already :/
2020-12-02T17:16:57 < jadew> google should unleash their AI so it can just give me what I need
2020-12-02T17:18:35 < jadew> I bet someone at google has access to the real search box
2020-12-02T17:19:40 < englishman> cool, you can even probe the sim at different points to see voltage differences
2020-12-02T17:19:57 < jadew> englishman, what is it called?
2020-12-02T17:21:58 < Steffanx> Your time is free jadew 
2020-12-02T17:22:15 < Steffanx> But you could have spend the time on a picologger clone indeed 
2020-12-02T17:23:00 < jadew> Steffanx, already made one from scrap I had available 
2020-12-02T17:23:22 < jadew> all I needed was a thermistor and some wire
2020-12-02T17:23:59 < jadew> and my DMM is connected to the internet, so I guess you can use it too if you want to :P
2020-12-02T17:24:07 < Steffanx> But proper desktop visualisation tooling..?
2020-12-02T17:25:52 < jadew> do you want to measure with my sensor?
2020-12-02T17:26:08 < jadew> you'll have to guess where I put it based on the temperature it measures
2020-12-02T17:26:27 < englishman> altium pdn analyzer
2020-12-02T17:26:41 < jadew> englishman, sounds expensive
2020-12-02T17:26:47 < jadew> because altium
2020-12-02T17:26:47 < englishman> my picologger has been collecting dust for years
2020-12-02T17:26:54 < englishman> yes i posted the price above
2020-12-02T17:27:52 < Steffanx> englishman: ... such pro tool collecting dust?
2020-12-02T17:28:29 < jadew> englishman, I think you said "this much $", but didn't actually give a figure
2020-12-02T17:28:46 < jadew> so I'm gonna guess between 5 and 8k
2020-12-02T17:30:02 < englishman> well i scrolled up
2020-12-02T17:30:04 < englishman> and there it was
2020-12-02T17:31:05 < jadew> ah, earlier discussion
2020-12-02T17:31:19 < jadew> 2k is not that much
2020-12-02T17:31:52 < jadew> (when compared with other simulation tools)
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2020-12-02T18:27:35 < englishman> this tool lists via and pin currents too
2020-12-02T18:27:39 < englishman> with via current density
2020-12-02T18:27:40 < englishman> neato
2020-12-02T18:27:43 < englishman> v helpful
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2020-12-02T21:56:00 < englishman> what are the new non-slavery names for miso/mosi again
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2020-12-02T21:57:28 < englishman> COPI/CIPO
2020-12-02T21:57:28 < englishman> ty
2020-12-02T22:03:01 < Steffanx> Dont tell me you comply with this bullshit englishperson
2020-12-02T22:03:28 < Steffanx> Ill not even think about not writing miso/mosi
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2020-12-02T22:14:51 < PaulFertser> Many SPI devices have DO / DI for years.
2020-12-02T22:16:53 < specing> I never liked MISO/MOSI naming, anyway
2020-12-02T22:17:04 < specing> output/input is way better
2020-12-02T22:17:27 < specing> (as it always confuses me which one is for sending and which for receiving)
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2020-12-02T22:18:05 < Steffanx> Yeah, master out, slave in is soo confusing. 
2020-12-02T22:18:12 < Steffanx> Better use Ada :P
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2020-12-02T22:20:26 < englishman> do/di is as bad as tx/rx
2020-12-02T22:21:06 < englishman> i have ordered everyone to use COPI/CIPO as of now. if they don't they get a whippin'
2020-12-02T22:22:29 < PaulFertser> specing: you can't be serious
2020-12-02T22:23:30 < specing> PaulFertser: I am
2020-12-02T22:24:03 < PaulFertser> specing: have you seen UART miswired because of rx/tx confusion? Have you seen SPI miswired?
2020-12-02T22:25:17 < specing> I've seen both miswired
2020-12-02T22:25:20 < Steffanx> No you didnt englishperson
2020-12-02T22:28:40 < Steffanx> Are you alright englishman?
2020-12-02T22:33:08 < englishman> doing gr8 ty
2020-12-02T22:33:10 < englishman> preheating the tesla
2020-12-02T22:35:31 < Steffanx> alright, i'd go for the whippin' then if i were your colleague
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2020-12-02T22:40:59 < englishman> i know you would
2020-12-02T22:43:44 < Steffanx> Shouldnt you be using something french anyway?
2020-12-02T22:50:08 < karlp> englishman: lesson to take away, don't try and split your gnd?
2020-12-02T22:53:47 < englishman> well in this case I had to
2020-12-02T22:54:04 < englishman> too much current on gndplane was fucking with a measurement
2020-12-02T22:54:14 < karlp> looks like more gradients on the split version?
2020-12-02T22:54:31 < karlp> or are teh little localised things on the green I can't see?
2020-12-02T22:56:59 < englishman> well it's not obvious because of the gradient
2020-12-02T22:57:21 < englishman> but if you probe the simulation, especially in the analolgue section where the ground references change, you can measure the potential difference
2020-12-02T22:57:50 < englishman> in the 1000x gain preamp, which is ground referenced it got picked up and fucked with it
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2020-12-02T23:07:10 < bitmask> hmm what do you guys think of this pattern: https://watertransferprinting.com/shop/hydrographic-film/stone/wtp-217-black-marble/
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2020-12-02T23:17:02 < karlp> yeah, youdo much lower noise shit than me :)
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2020-12-03T00:49:54 < machinehum> So what's the state of the art in non-bloated stm32 libraries if I don't want to do everything from scratch
2020-12-03T00:50:21 < machinehum> potato based libs
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2020-12-03T02:21:01 < antto> tofu based libs?
2020-12-03T02:21:46 < machinehum> Yeah those
2020-12-03T02:21:55 < machinehum> gimme some of that vegan shit
2020-12-03T02:22:20 < antto> soy milk libs
2020-12-03T02:22:31 < machinehum> none of this pork fat arduino/hal shit
2020-12-03T02:26:31 < machinehum> karlp: Move libopencm3 to mit licence please
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2020-12-03T03:12:57 < englishman> arecibo collapsed
2020-12-03T03:13:34 < leite> ouch
2020-12-03T03:13:51 < leite> nobody is hurt ?
2020-12-03T03:14:43 < englishman> it was a few months in coming
2020-12-03T03:14:50 < englishman> so likely not
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2020-12-03T03:15:09 < leite> nice, good to know
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2020-12-03T03:16:12 < leite> looking pictures now of arecibo, must be a fun place to skate
2020-12-03T03:16:31 < leite> too bad it collapsed
2020-12-03T03:25:09 < machinehum> libopenocdcmsisocd is dope
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2020-12-03T12:03:03 < BrainDamage> jesus christ java, this is the gradle daemon spawning script, scroll at the bottom
2020-12-03T12:03:04 < BrainDamage> https://waifupaste.moe/hrG
2020-12-03T12:07:09 < mawk> lol
2020-12-03T12:09:24 < mawk>             eval `echo args$i`="\"$arg\""
2020-12-03T12:09:33 < mawk> that's even worse than the big set tower
2020-12-03T12:09:39 < mawk> why are they doing this
2020-12-03T12:10:03 < PaulFertser> Lack of arrays in shell probably?
2020-12-03T12:10:53 < mawk> then maybe shell wasn't appropriate
2020-12-03T12:12:12 < PaulFertser> "Now convert the arguments - kludge to limit ourselves to /bin/sh" so yes
2020-12-03T12:13:42 < mawk> a (*) echo 'too many arguments to convert';; wouldn't have hurt probably though
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2020-12-03T12:52:25 < BrainDamage> pretty sure sh has $@
2020-12-03T12:52:43 < BrainDamage> so they don't need that shit
2020-12-03T12:58:04 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yes but I guess at least one eval would still be involved to run something with all the modified arguments assembled.
2020-12-03T12:58:41 < BrainDamage> still better than what they have there
2020-12-03T13:11:11 < BrainDamage> also, another easy alternative, just separate arguments by tab or newline and set input field separator to that char
2020-12-03T13:11:32 < BrainDamage> no eval necessary, no moronic kludges
2020-12-03T13:25:35 < PaulFertser> The question is how to be able to process an arbitrary number of arguments individually and then be able to use them all as arguments again.
2020-12-03T13:29:00 < srk> just save $@ before processing
2020-12-03T13:31:28 < PaulFertser> srk: the script idea is to change some arguments. You can process arbitrary number of them with $1 then "shift" loop. But then you'll need to somehow assign them all back. Tricky without arrays.
2020-12-03T13:31:42 < PaulFertser> Shell programming is moronic by definition it seems.
2020-12-03T13:34:02 < srk> I see
2020-12-03T13:34:06  * srk agrees
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2020-12-03T13:43:15 < mawk> bash is fine
2020-12-03T13:43:19 < mawk> sh isn't
2020-12-03T13:43:47 < mawk> people using /bin/sh for portability back to AIX workstations of the last century because someone might still run that somewhere should die
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2020-12-03T13:50:07 < Steffanx> poor mawk
2020-12-03T13:50:12 < PaulFertser> mawk: OpenWrt and similar systems. Busybox ash.
2020-12-03T13:50:30 < PaulFertser> mawk: also, Debian uses dash for /bin/sh by default because it's measurably faster.
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2020-12-03T13:52:21 < mawk> of course it's faster, it's devoid of any usefulness
2020-12-03T13:52:26 < mawk> if you compare it to proper tools
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2020-12-03T13:56:20 < BrainDamage> openwrt and similar systems wouldn't be able to run gradle anyway
2020-12-03T13:56:42 < BrainDamage> since just by existing it allocates 10x the memory those devices have
2020-12-03T14:08:00 < mawk> I think nicotine isn't addictive
2020-12-03T14:09:10 < Steffanx> ok
2020-12-03T14:09:46 < mawk> I accidentally forgot to add nicotine to my mix of ecig
2020-12-03T14:09:49 < mawk> and I didn't even notice it
2020-12-03T14:10:12 < mawk> and I know what addictivity looks like, I'm a qualified expert
2020-12-03T14:11:53 < Streaker> maybe you use chinese nicotine
2020-12-03T14:16:47 < karlp> machinehum: hah
2020-12-03T14:16:52 < karlp> use laks instead
2020-12-03T14:17:10 < mawk> lol Streaker 
2020-12-03T14:17:11 < karlp> locm3 has a mix of people who think lgpl is already to weak, it's never going to go further
2020-12-03T14:17:15 < mawk> no I bought french pharmaceutical
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2020-12-03T14:28:33 < BrainDamage> that's few syllabes away from phony
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2020-12-03T14:34:22 < mawk> like how?
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2020-12-03T15:59:44 < PaulFertser> huh, I wonder why I have problems finding a reasonably-priced computer-controlled bench power supply that can do about 30 A @ 12 V. There're many devices powerful enough but surprisingly they do not have communication interfaces, why?
2020-12-03T16:03:51 < karlp> 30A is a _lot_ of power
2020-12-03T16:05:02 < karlp> but yes, basic power supplies with programming at all seem to be in short supply
2020-12-03T16:05:09 < karlp> ka3005 stuff is ok though
2020-12-03T16:05:21 < karlp> but that's less than half the power you're looking for.
2020-12-03T16:05:34 < karlp> rd6012 and 6018 should work for you?
2020-12-03T16:06:39 < PaulFertser> karlp: 360 W
2020-12-03T16:07:27 < PaulFertser> I wonder why there're so many supplies with MCU inside but without interface.
2020-12-03T16:07:55 < specing> $ I guess
2020-12-03T16:08:07 < karlp> "keep makign the same things we've always made"
2020-12-03T16:08:10 < PaulFertser> Adding RS232 or USB worth nothing
2020-12-03T16:08:30 < srk> I've got DPS5005 and DPS5020 recently (only 20A tho). works over modbus with orig firmware
2020-12-03T16:08:43 < karlp> all these minleaf and shit stuff on ali/banggood should be _super_ easy to make remote controlled but they just never do
2020-12-03T16:08:56 < karlp> yeah, rd60xx is new versions of those dps shits
2020-12-03T16:09:13 < PaulFertser> I can expect that from silly vendors but all the big guys seem to be neglecting the topic too.
2020-12-03T16:09:26 < PaulFertser> 18 A is not enough for the purpose :(
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2020-12-03T16:10:10 < PaulFertser> Other than that RD6018 seems to be nice
2020-12-03T16:10:29 < karlp> I don't think yuou're going to see cheapð supplies -without_ control doing 30A
2020-12-03T16:10:42 < srk> karlp: I guess that has modbus as well, right?
2020-12-03T16:11:31 < karlp> apparently, but not the same https://sigrok.org/wiki/Riden_RD6006
2020-12-03T16:12:40 < PaulFertser> karlp: https://aliexpress.com/item/32709456542.html MP1560D
2020-12-03T16:13:09 < karlp> that's 250 euro
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2020-12-03T16:13:25 < karlp> but sure.
2020-12-03T16:13:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: yeah, I'm ok with something that would cost even 500 EUR, but not 1500.
2020-12-03T16:13:38 < karlp> especially at those prices, yes, I'd be expecting control options to be more standard :)
2020-12-03T16:16:42 < PaulFertser> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Peaktech-P1565-DC-Power-Supply-640W-Switching-Mode-16V-40A-USB-/293830606900 probably
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2020-12-03T16:26:16 < englishman> got a laser galvo and 505nm laser
2020-12-03T16:26:37 < englishman> lasers sure are cheap now
2020-12-03T16:27:31 < englishman> 60A through those little banana plugs?
2020-12-03T16:28:25 < englishman> maybe something rack mount Paul?
2020-12-03T16:32:24 < srk> I'm not yet sure how to feed that DPS5020 with like 60V 20A. dont want to buy expensive industrial brick atm
2020-12-03T16:32:50 < PaulFertser> englishman: rack mount would be ok too
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2020-12-03T16:54:23 < Laurenceb> shake that babbby
2020-12-03T16:54:39 < Laurenceb> >britbong gov is going to build space solar power stations
2020-12-03T16:54:48 < Laurenceb> >they didnt fund stratosolar
2020-12-03T16:54:51 < Laurenceb> the state of this
2020-12-03T16:55:03 < Laurenceb> http://www.spacedevelopmentfoundation.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/SPS-2018-Preliminary-Program-Version-1-12.pdf
2020-12-03T16:55:12 < Laurenceb> >keynote speaker: Jeff Bezos
2020-12-03T16:55:24 < Laurenceb> wtf I want to build space solar power now
2020-12-03T16:55:53 < Laurenceb> also...
2020-12-03T16:56:15 < Laurenceb> >babbyshake could have paid to repair the aracebo telescope
2020-12-03T16:56:20 < Laurenceb> the state 
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2020-12-03T17:17:00 < Steffanx> it wasnt about money ...
2020-12-03T17:30:15 < fenugrec> "big current!" https://www.ebay.ca/itm/big-current-AC-110V-to-DC-12V-24V-48V-60V-80V-400V-500V-2000W-Power-Supply/153434563094
2020-12-03T17:34:54 < englishman> it supports programming, we provide optional PLC Analog Control function. it can be made into remote controlled smart power supply.
2020-12-03T17:34:54 < englishman> this function is NOT default, contact us for more information and quotation.
2020-12-03T17:34:56 < englishman> good enough!
2020-12-03T17:38:11 < fenugrec> I was half serious, but if they do provide a 0-10V control input that's a good start
2020-12-03T17:38:34 < englishman> i wonder what kind of control paul needs
2020-12-03T17:38:43 < englishman> if a ssr controling the entire unit would be enough
2020-12-03T17:38:44 < fenugrec> I'd be really nervous running one of those at 135A though
2020-12-03T17:40:32 < karlp> 0-10V analog control is trainwreck
2020-12-03T17:40:39 < karlp> sure, I know it works for some people but fuck me.
2020-12-03T17:40:45 < karlp> now I need another controller to controll
2020-12-03T17:40:58 < karlp> next we'll have lookup tables for octaves to amperes
2020-12-03T17:41:14 < fenugrec> nah just bust out a PLC with a "if PV > SV, decrease output" loop
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2020-12-03T17:42:38 < karlp> you're still busting out the plc,
2020-12-03T17:43:00 < karlp> you're not talking to a 0-10V analog control directly from your pc
2020-12-03T17:44:07 < fenugrec> heh
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2020-12-03T17:50:27 < englishman> parallel port pwm + lowpass?
2020-12-03T17:51:02 < BrainDamage> what are you, some industry grade CAM controller?
2020-12-03T17:51:07 < srk> ewww
2020-12-03T17:51:29  * karlp looks around for a parallel port
2020-12-03T17:51:41 < englishman> maybe parallel is just 5v idk
2020-12-03T17:51:44 < englishman> +-5v
2020-12-03T17:51:56 < englishman> so rs232 and lowpass :)
2020-12-03T17:52:05 < BrainDamage> also, you'd be not that far off wrt octaves, there's CV ( control voltage ) signals for synths
2020-12-03T17:52:14 < fenugrec> hey, I have a parallel port AND rs232-to-PLC driving mah CNC !
2020-12-03T17:52:50 < BrainDamage> r232 spec only requires the voltage to be symmetric and min +-3V
2020-12-03T17:53:17 < BrainDamage> so strictly, may not be sufficient if the controller is lazy and doesn't send full swing
2020-12-03T17:54:39 < englishman> thats why you get a 133A power supply when you only need 30A
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2020-12-03T17:57:12 < karlp> BrainDamage: that's why I mentioned it :)
2020-12-03T17:58:19 < BrainDamage> ohh, here's an idea, build a charge pump with the parallel port
2020-12-03T17:58:39 < Laurenceb> wtf
2020-12-03T17:58:41 < BrainDamage> switching diodes and caps to modulate the output
2020-12-03T17:58:49 < Laurenceb> just make a custom stm32 thing with usb
2020-12-03T17:59:05 < BrainDamage> I'm joking you dolt
2020-12-03T17:59:09 < Laurenceb> k
2020-12-03T17:59:48 < Laurenceb> but you could use parralel port with resistor ladder and opamp
2020-12-03T18:00:01 < karlp> calling beaky, calling beakky...
2020-12-03T18:09:13 < fenugrec> made some drawers, https://ibb.co/mhsKWkY , what do I put in them now
2020-12-03T18:11:44 < BrainDamage> those lipo batteries are convenintly looking like TNT sticks
2020-12-03T18:12:37 < fenugrec> good old cordite-18650
2020-12-03T18:16:17 < englishman> parallel port charge pump
2020-12-03T18:16:18 < englishman> i love it
2020-12-03T18:17:06 < qyx> yeah
2020-12-03T18:17:23 < qyx> installing realtime os extensions only to get stable voltage on the output
2020-12-03T18:27:56 < Laurenceb> https://www.internationalelectric.com/space-solar
2020-12-03T18:30:39 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG2yv9Z7Zq4
2020-12-03T18:30:46 < Laurenceb> wtf did I just watch
2020-12-03T18:31:21 < Laurenceb> Heath Robinson project Ltd
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2020-12-03T18:33:12 < Laurenceb> I can't even right now
2020-12-03T18:33:21 < Laurenceb> why, just why
2020-12-03T18:33:27 < englishman> using the PDN analyzer to simulate a ground plane isolation leak due to chassis connection
2020-12-03T18:33:48 < englishman> across the analolgue circuitry, complete isolation = hundreds of pV potential across the analogue ground plane
2020-12-03T18:33:58 < englishman> with a chassis leak, almost a uV
2020-12-03T18:34:18 < Laurenceb> this guy did it, he came up with something more retarded than babbyshake
2020-12-03T18:36:07 < Laurenceb> >microwave power link >to a hovering blimp
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2020-12-03T18:37:41 < qyx> englishman: is your ground plane connected to the chassis using multiple points?
2020-12-03T18:38:42 < englishman> just one, so i put some footprints in there, to use a cap or resistor or inductor or something instead of a dead short
2020-12-03T18:38:45 < englishman> i think i'll use the cap
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2020-12-03T19:10:24 < BrainDamage> movie clips of arecibo crrash https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/arecibo/
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2020-12-03T19:29:19 < fenugrec> cool. they figured picking up the rubble would be cheaper than cleanly disassembling ?
2020-12-03T19:30:09 < BrainDamage> when the 2nd cable snapped it was evident the whole thing was about to fail
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2020-12-03T19:30:18 < BrainDamage> just none espected it to fail less than a week after
2020-12-03T19:31:45 < fenugrec> what an awesome installation though
2020-12-03T19:32:41 < specing> cost of new arecibo = $350e6, cost of maintenance?
2020-12-03T19:32:49 < specing> cost of having nothing =$0
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2020-12-03T19:38:21 < BrainDamage> maintenance was delayed because of covid
2020-12-03T19:38:37 < BrainDamage> a cyclone damaged it
2020-12-03T19:38:47 < fenugrec> I<ve dreamed of visiting that place since goldeneye came out, hehe
2020-12-03T19:39:17 < BrainDamage> so in a way arecibo is another victim of 2020
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2020-12-03T19:47:56 < steve_> anyone know an EAGLE library with STM32 parts where the schematic symbol is actual pinout, ie pin 1 in the top left corner
2020-12-03T19:49:02 < karlp> why would you even want that?
2020-12-03T19:49:24 < karlp> you'redefinitely oin your own there
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2020-12-03T19:59:41 < englishman> does anyone know the initial cost of construction
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2020-12-03T20:05:16 < Steffanx> What do you want to be constructed mr englishman?
2020-12-03T20:05:46 < englishman> arecibo
2020-12-03T20:06:00 < englishman> I wonder how much it cost to build
2020-12-03T20:10:17 < steve_> karlp I see lots of schematics like that, with STM32 parts and others
2020-12-03T20:11:15 < steve_> do a google image search for stm32 schematic, nearly half are
2020-12-03T20:12:08 < englishman> of course the ones you see online are all opensores hobbyist crap
2020-12-03T20:13:08 < englishman> doing it that way is counterproductive
2020-12-03T20:13:29 < steve_> disagree, what's a good reason
2020-12-03T20:13:40 < englishman> a schematic is a graphical description of a circuit that doesn't necessarily relate to how the circuit will be laid out
2020-12-03T20:13:54 < englishman> so why would you put a power pin next to a spi set
2020-12-03T20:15:20 < englishman> these Empire apples are really good
2020-12-03T20:15:42 < steve_> easier to verify that the library correct, easier to debug bringup or failure
2020-12-03T20:16:36 < steve_> the library creator can't assume you are using those pins for SPI
2020-12-03T20:16:52 < englishman> what's a library creator
2020-12-03T20:17:03 < englishman> the person drawing the symbol?
2020-12-03T20:17:15 < steve_> sure if you're going to create every library yourself for each design but that's a waste of time
2020-12-03T20:17:15 < englishman> no of course not, especially with stm32 where pins have many purposes
2020-12-03T20:17:20 < englishman> how is that a waste of time
2020-12-03T20:17:23 < englishman> that is the only way to not waste time
2020-12-03T20:17:33 < englishman> if you draw your own symbols you know those are correct
2020-12-03T20:17:46 < englishman> where that picture that aandrew posted yesterday
2020-12-03T20:17:49 < englishman> that cost him a board spin
2020-12-03T20:17:56 < englishman> because he used dumb opensores symbols
2020-12-03T20:18:00 < englishman> that would have taken him 2 minutes to draw
2020-12-03T20:18:25 < steve_> 2 minutes more like an hour for a 64 pin part
2020-12-03T20:18:35 < englishman> maybe for your very first one
2020-12-03T20:19:47 < englishman> or if you are using kicad and have to edit python scripts by hand or something
2020-12-03T20:22:38 < machinehum> karlp: heh fine
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2020-12-03T20:48:50 < mawk> where is dongs 
2020-12-03T20:52:47 < Steffanx> open zipper
2020-12-03T21:09:02 < englishman> dongs is learning to paramotor
2020-12-03T21:09:32 < antto> para-wot
2020-12-03T21:12:16 < antto> steve_, why eegul, why schematic symbol with pins aranged as on the chip body when the pinouts usually make no sense?
2020-12-03T21:12:33 < englishman> holy fuck they were actually flying a drone at the moment it snapped
2020-12-03T21:13:00 < jadew> and where looking exactly at the piece that snapped
2020-12-03T21:13:04 < jadew> *were
2020-12-03T21:13:12 < jadew> I wonder if they were doing any adjustments
2020-12-03T21:13:15 < antto> wut r ya eyeballing?
2020-12-03T21:14:51  * antto puts on his kicad-fanboi uniform
2020-12-03T21:15:06 < englishman> rainDamage>	movie clips of arecibo crrash https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/arecibo/
2020-12-03T21:21:02 < antto> "oops"
2020-12-03T21:24:26 < steve_> sometimes schematic is related to layout, eg on super simple 2 layer boards I like seeing the actual pinout in the schematic so I can make connections that I know won't require vias.  also if I'
2020-12-03T21:25:07 < steve_> ve already decided component locations on board I can choose eg. GPIOs that are on the closest side of the IC
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2020-12-03T21:58:45 < fenugrec> nothing prevents you from dropping an unconnected stm32 sym, going into the PCB, arranging your stuff and then making the connections in the schem
2020-12-03T22:00:19 < karlp> that's what "forwards and backwards annotations" means.
2020-12-03T22:00:27 < fenugrec> indeed
2020-12-03T22:00:56 < fenugrec> and I recall eagle was OK at it, better than kicad was (still is ?)
2020-12-03T22:01:15  * karlp has been on kicad 6 stuff for ages works fine there,
2020-12-03T22:01:26 < karlp> 5.1.x stable shit still has this dumb "create netlist, import netlist" bullshit
2020-12-03T22:01:44 < steve_> was not aware of making net connections from board editor, trying now
2020-12-03T22:01:47 < fenugrec> yeah I'm still on 5.1.shit as you say
2020-12-03T22:02:27 < steve_> na you can't unless I'm missing something.  the board editor can only route air wires
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2020-12-03T22:02:40 < steve_> said air wires can only be connected in the schematic
2020-12-03T22:02:57 < steve_> (in eagle)
2020-12-03T22:03:27 < fenugrec> havent used eagal since 6.something
2020-12-03T22:04:20 < steve_> the only backwards annotation i can think of is deleting a part
2020-12-03T22:04:45 < fenugrec> it did pinswap and gateswap "back then"
2020-12-03T22:05:38 < steve_> ok I see pinswap in board editor, will have to try it
2020-12-03T22:05:43 < englishman> eagle makes me sign in every time i open it
2020-12-03T22:06:28 < steve_> englishman not on linux atleast, i literally just downlaoded it an hour ago
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2020-12-03T23:48:31 < karlp> Wearable Exposure Notification Service
2020-12-03T23:48:44 < karlp> thanks bt sig, glad you're "standardizing" that
2020-12-03T23:48:59 < karlp> I wonder how many nation app swill ever use the standard?
--- Day changed Fri Dec 04 2020
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2020-12-04T00:50:36 < ds2> anyone know of anything that can act as a tiny electrically controlled heat generator that is not covered (i.e. an exposed filament)
2020-12-04T00:50:57 < karlp> you mean, other than a filament?
2020-12-04T00:50:59 < ds2> the RC glow plugs seems to be the only thing close but mounting less then ideal
2020-12-04T00:51:09 < ds2> a filament in a ready to use package would be fine... know a source?
2020-12-04T00:51:20 < karlp> you want a controlled specified x mA gives this much heat?
2020-12-04T00:51:29 < ds2> I am trying to generate LWIR/MWIR
2020-12-04T00:51:45 < karlp> what about just high Wattach low Ohm resistors?
2020-12-04T00:52:05 < ds2> no, I want something not covered by glass that I can vary the temperture of 
2020-12-04T00:52:16 < karlp> well, vary the current?
2020-12-04T00:52:35 < karlp> https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Yageo/SQP10AJB-10R?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIPfbcHfecTmFy47LJTXdFTc%3D ?
2020-12-04T00:52:37 < ds2> those things are too big... thought of that... I would wind my own NiChrome but joining to to copper is apparently not easy
2020-12-04T00:53:12 < karlp> so you want to use less current, just get a 1W then instead of a 10W?
2020-12-04T00:53:17 < ds2> they make mems versions of these for this specific application but they are speciality (order from mfg) items
2020-12-04T00:53:35 < karlp> what's wrong with just a smd resistor?
2020-12-04T00:53:44 < ds2> no no... think of it as a light bulb but for far IR
2020-12-04T00:53:55 < karlp> right, you want more heat...
2020-12-04T00:53:59 < karlp> aka, a resistor?
2020-12-04T00:54:00 < ds2> I want to vary the brightness (temperature of a approx black body radiator)
2020-12-04T00:54:28 < ds2> resistor won't survive... aiming for about 900K
2020-12-04T00:54:51 < ds2> I have cracked ceramic power resistors doing something like this
2020-12-04T00:55:18 < ds2> strictly speaking, I want less heat then a light bulb
2020-12-04T00:55:23 < karlp> ok, 900K is not the same as "small elec controlled heater" like you started with :)
2020-12-04T00:55:42 < ds2> well.... a light bulb filament gets hotter then that
2020-12-04T00:55:55 < karlp> if yhou'ðre too ghetto to use application specific shti, you're going to be ghettoign your own with wire then?
2020-12-04T00:56:04 < karlp> what's wrong with light bulbs?
2020-12-04T00:56:14 < karlp> oh no, it's bright?
2020-12-04T00:56:14 < ds2> the glass envelope filters out LWIR
2020-12-04T00:56:20 < karlp> smash teh glass?
2020-12-04T00:56:21 < ds2> other wise, it is perfect
2020-12-04T00:56:40 < karlp> bonus points, makes you look like a l33t ied hacker
2020-12-04T00:56:43 < ds2> that's the fall back plan - smash the glass make it easy to replace as I doubt the filament will last long in the air
2020-12-04T00:57:15 < karlp> I think it lasts just fine if you don't couch ti
2020-12-04T00:57:27 < BrainDamage> why do you want an exposed filament
2020-12-04T00:57:34 < BrainDamage> that's a sure way to get it burn fast
2020-12-04T00:57:35 < karlp> the halogen bulbs comon these days have the inner glass that is actually gassed inside
2020-12-04T00:57:41 < ds2> you don't think it'll oxidize too quickly?
2020-12-04T00:58:05 < ds2> BrainDamage: I want a LWIR/MWIR source... the glass act as a cut off filter around MWIR (~5um)
2020-12-04T00:58:05 < BrainDamage> I do think it'll will
2020-12-04T00:58:22 < BrainDamage> it doesn't have to be glass
2020-12-04T00:58:32 < BrainDamage> just stick it into a pipe
2020-12-04T00:58:39 < BrainDamage> metal pipe
2020-12-04T00:58:41 < karlp> what about heater bulbs?
2020-12-04T00:58:44 < ds2> BrianDamage: you know of germanium or silicon encased bulbs? :D
2020-12-04T00:59:01 < karlp> like this shit: https://www.amazon.com/BOEESPAT-Ceramic-Emitter-Reptile-Aquarium/dp/B088D59Z7R/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+heat+bulb&qid=1607036326&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVDhKVDhPRlY4RyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRJZD1BMDI2NzI4NTIxRUoxNDlWTjBIQTUmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDY2MDYyOTM0Q04zRDdWTlJXMEMmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
2020-12-04T00:59:06 < karlp> fucking gross urls sorry
2020-12-04T00:59:26 < ds2> https://www.amazon.com/BOEESPAT-Ceramic-Emitter-Reptile-Aquarium/dp/B088D59Z7R <-- that's all that is needed. Rest is for tracking you.
2020-12-04T00:59:56 < ds2> that's too big (electrically and mechanically)
2020-12-04T01:00:49 < ds2> the RC glow plugs run at about 1.5V and are size of a small screw. Problems are: it uses an odd thread (1/4-28) and it has no normal terminals. just a post for clipping to
2020-12-04T01:02:12 < BrainDamage> karlp: https://gitlab.com/KevinRoebert/ClearUrls
2020-12-04T01:02:41 < BrainDamage> even if you don't care about tracking, it makes for a much nicer urls
2020-12-04T01:04:26 < BrainDamage> ds2: re: nichrome, you don't solder it, you just crimp i
2020-12-04T01:04:49 < BrainDamage> so just get a crimp on connector, and you crimp the nichrome on
2020-12-04T01:10:32 < machinehum> Does anyone know of a decent little CLI I can drop into libopencm3?
2020-12-04T01:10:41 < machinehum> Ideally in C++
2020-12-04T01:11:18 < machinehum> FreeRTOS+CLI gives me diarrhea
2020-12-04T01:12:37 < Laurenceb> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/rebuild-arecibo-observatory
2020-12-04T01:13:06 < zyp> machinehum, it's on my list of things to write
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2020-12-04T01:14:50 < BrainDamage> arecibo would probably be relocated if it gets rebuilt, a decent portion of the sky was occluded by rf noise from the developing urban areas in the neighbourhood
2020-12-04T01:17:10 < machinehum> Where's the best spot?
2020-12-04T01:18:38 < BrainDamage> in a karst / depression / crater, somewhere just south or north of the equator, and far away from civilization as possible
2020-12-04T01:19:19 < BrainDamage> first is necessary to avoid insane costs of a structure, 2nd is to get ionosphere through spot, and last one is for noise
2020-12-04T01:20:21 < machinehum> So not floating around in the middle of the ocean?
2020-12-04T01:24:16 < BrainDamage> considering it requires a power plant to power the MW klystrons for the radar, no
2020-12-04T01:25:15 < BrainDamage> not to mention, the huge cost of the floating platform for buoyancy, and all the material to resist the pressure of 300m water depth
2020-12-04T01:26:53 < machinehum> But would it matter if the telescope is moving around from the waves?
2020-12-04T01:27:17 < BrainDamage> ofc it would
2020-12-04T01:27:39 < zyp> can we just build it on the moon?
2020-12-04T01:27:54 < machinehum> Damn so I guess that's another negative
2020-12-04T01:28:12 < machinehum> zyp: Nah gotta power that klystrons
2020-12-04T01:28:26 < zyp> yeah?
2020-12-04T01:28:29 < BrainDamage> considering it costs ~10k$/kg just to get to orbit, yeahh, no
2020-12-04T01:29:04 < machinehum> Sorry if I missed it... why did the thing just collapse?
2020-12-04T01:29:11 < zyp> lack of maintenance
2020-12-04T01:30:06 < BrainDamage> it got hit by an hurricane also 1 year ago
2020-12-04T01:30:06 < machinehum> The footage looks like the cable just snapped...
2020-12-04T01:30:15 < BrainDamage> then covid delayed maintenance
2020-12-04T01:30:46 < BrainDamage> 1 cable snapped in the summer, and another last week
2020-12-04T01:30:54 < machinehum> Jeez
2020-12-04T01:31:10 < BrainDamage> before 2nd cable breaking, there was still intent to recover it
2020-12-04T01:31:25 < BrainDamage> when 2nd cable broke, it was going to be officially scrapped
2020-12-04T01:31:34 < zyp> yeah
2020-12-04T01:31:40 < zyp> «too dangerous to repair»
2020-12-04T01:31:46 < machinehum> Are radio telescopes that large still useful? I thought people used array's now
2020-12-04T01:32:04 < BrainDamage> to receive you can use arrays
2020-12-04T01:32:07 < machinehum> I don't know anything about radio astronomy
2020-12-04T01:32:09 < effractur> yes
2020-12-04T01:32:13 < effractur> they are different 
2020-12-04T01:32:14 < BrainDamage> to transmit, it's not that convenient
2020-12-04T01:32:22 < machinehum> Interesting
2020-12-04T01:32:27 < effractur> arecibo did also radar stuff
2020-12-04T01:32:36 < effractur> transmits stuff and wait for it to come back
2020-12-04T01:32:42 < machinehum> Who tf was that thing talking to?
2020-12-04T01:32:52 < BrainDamage> making a phase coherent receiver "only" requires that you timestamp what you receive and realign it
2020-12-04T01:32:54 < effractur> reflections of starts/planets
2020-12-04T01:33:02 < effractur> stars*
2020-12-04T01:33:05 < machinehum> Got it
2020-12-04T01:33:20 < BrainDamage> so the realignment doesn't have to be realtime
2020-12-04T01:33:37 < BrainDamage> while for transmitting, all the generators have to be phase-coherent
2020-12-04T01:34:23 < BrainDamage> not to mention, distortions from atmospheric disturbances are much harder to compensate
2020-12-04T01:38:14 < machinehum> So txing from an array isn't possible? Or isn't commonly done
2020-12-04T01:38:26 < BrainDamage> it's commonly done
2020-12-04T01:38:30 < machinehum> The phase allignment seems almost impossible
2020-12-04T01:38:34 < BrainDamage> but only in close location
2020-12-04T01:38:53 < machinehum> Where the array elements are close to each other?
2020-12-04T01:38:57 < BrainDamage> where you can distribute eg a single syncronization signal
2020-12-04T01:39:08 < BrainDamage> and tie all signals to that
2020-12-04T01:39:11 < machinehum> Right, where over a long distance that becomes hard
2020-12-04T01:45:03 < BrainDamage> phased arrays are pretty convenient because you can make a virtual steered antenna just by combining the signals with different phase
2020-12-04T01:45:16 < BrainDamage> this in both tx and rx
2020-12-04T01:45:34 < BrainDamage> but implementing the rx part over large distances is easier than the tx
2020-12-04T01:45:48 < BrainDamage> because the analysis doesn't have to be realtime
2020-12-04T01:46:05 < BrainDamage> if the rx has to be realtime, then you have the same requirements as txx
2020-12-04T01:46:16 < BrainDamage> with perfectly phase coherent receivers
2020-12-04T01:49:38 < zyp> can't you do the inverse and precalc for tx? :p
2020-12-04T01:50:10 < BrainDamage> if you can read into the future and know propagation conditions
2020-12-04T01:50:32 < zyp> sounds good, let's do that
2020-12-04T01:51:07 < zyp> who was it that already played with C++20 coroutines? Thorn?
2020-12-04T01:51:21 < Thorn> yes sir
2020-12-04T01:51:50 < zyp> status so far?
2020-12-04T01:51:51 < Thorn> still waiting for arm-none-eabi-gcc 10.2
2020-12-04T01:52:07 < Thorn> current work project is C
2020-12-04T01:52:37 < zyp> I just installed the 10.1.1 preview
2020-12-04T01:52:44 < zyp> what does 10.2 improve over that?
2020-12-04T02:01:38 < Thorn> many bug fixes including coroutines iirc
2020-12-04T02:02:24 < zyp> there will probably be a q4-major release some time soon, but I figured I want to start playing now
2020-12-04T02:03:06 < zyp> how well does your stuff work so far?
2020-12-04T02:04:50 < ds2> BrianDamage: how do you crimp 30G nichrome?
2020-12-04T02:05:30 < BrainDamage> 30G?
2020-12-04T02:06:50 < BrainDamage> if that's AWG, you could just use a screw terminal
2020-12-04T02:07:50 < BrainDamage> bonus points you can easily replace the wire if it breaks
2020-12-04T02:08:44 < ds2> yes AWG
2020-12-04T02:09:00 < ds2> does it hold up? Worry about thermal cycling 
2020-12-04T02:09:32 < ds2> tempted to build a miniwelder...got some decent size caps lying around :D
2020-12-04T02:09:39 < ds2> but that's going onto a different project
2020-12-04T02:10:24 < Thorn> zyp oh btw I finally found that paper on embedded coroutines, they do a 2-step compilation: in the first step they obtain buffer sizes for every promise object and plug them into the code, this way you get coroutines with fully fixed buffers
2020-12-04T02:10:35 < BrainDamage> as long as it's not plastic, and it has sufficient surface to dissipate the heat conducted through the wire, which should be very little since your wire is so tiny
2020-12-04T02:11:08 < ds2> good point
2020-12-04T02:11:09 < zyp> Thorn, hmm, sounds annoying
2020-12-04T02:11:16 < BrainDamage> you can also easily test it for few bucks
2020-12-04T02:11:24 < Thorn> Ii understand they automated it
2020-12-04T02:11:28 < BrainDamage> instead of a much more complex solution
2020-12-04T02:11:28 < ds2> got some 4-40 screws and a tap handy
2020-12-04T02:11:36 < Thorn> they actually had it on github btw
2020-12-04T02:11:56 < zyp> damn, I get a ton of -Wvolatile warnings
2020-12-04T02:13:01 < ds2> it just leaves the annoying part of finding a suitable transistor to drive it
2020-12-04T02:13:16 < zyp> https://stackoverflow.com/a/62955752
2020-12-04T02:13:29 < zyp> that looks annoying as fuck
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2020-12-04T02:19:22 < zyp> I mean, rationale is fair enough, «a |= b;» results in a RMW operation with potential for a race condition
2020-12-04T02:20:52 < zyp> but most register accesses like that are only done from one place anyway
2020-12-04T02:21:34 < zyp> the registers that this could actually be an issue for have mechanisms like BSRR
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2020-12-04T02:54:12 < mawk> PaulFertser: 
2020-12-04T02:54:19 < mawk> how am I supposed to use the stlink interface driver?
2020-12-04T02:54:21 < mawk> instead of hla
2020-12-04T02:55:43 < mawk> ah I found
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2020-12-04T02:56:17 < mawk> interface/stlink-dap.cfg
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2020-12-04T03:11:10 < kakium69> trump has sended me 1400 emails
2020-12-04T03:11:12 < kakium69> and counting
2020-12-04T03:29:35 < mawk> what
2020-12-04T03:49:24 < fenugrec> ds2, for something beefier, get some 1mm tungsten rod from the welding shop
2020-12-04T03:50:24 < fenugrec> bakelite / fiberglass screw terminals at both ends. Not sure how many amps to get it to 900K but not unrealistic. Below 60A for sure
2020-12-04T03:56:26 < zyp> Thorn, hmm, maybe I should wait too
2020-12-04T03:56:28 < zyp> :p
2020-12-04T03:56:46 < zyp> I ran into an internal compiler error
2020-12-04T03:57:03 < zyp> trying to construct a coroutine handle
2020-12-04T03:59:08 < zyp> hmm, now it's doing that even if I'm not constructing the coroutine handle
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2020-12-04T04:41:41 < mawk> this nRF bootloader/MBR situation is a bit weird
2020-12-04T04:41:51 < mawk> they provide just a binary blob for the mbr for some reason
2020-12-04T04:42:08 < mawk> I don't want binary proprietary blobs on my hardware
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2020-12-04T06:20:06 < Blacktrobicd> Hey guys, I'm running into a strange issue with the arm keil compiler
2020-12-04T06:22:05 < Blacktrobicd> GPIOB->BSRR = 2179; builds fine for example, however, using =0b0000100010000011 makes the compiler throw an error telling me expected a ";"
2020-12-04T06:22:29 < Blacktrobicd> i really don't get it, this used to work fine, any ideas?
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2020-12-04T06:35:49 < specing> Hmm, I'd expect an ; there, too
2020-12-04T06:36:24 < specing> also Ada: 2#0000_1000_1000_0011#;, much more readable
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2020-12-04T06:46:10 < fenugrec> englishman, arecibo v1 cost around 9E6 in '63
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2020-12-04T09:39:52 < qyx> since when there are binary literals in C?
2020-12-04T09:39:59 < qyx> (except gcc extensions)
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2020-12-04T10:16:36 < mawk> C11 maybe
2020-12-04T10:17:01 < mawk> no actually
2020-12-04T10:18:20 < dongs> < qyx> since when there are binary literals in C?
2020-12-04T10:18:22 < dongs> there arent
2020-12-04T10:18:30 < dongs> only fucking gcc retards use 0b101010
2020-12-04T10:51:56 < jadew> new c++ has them too IIRC
2020-12-04T10:52:17 < jadew> also, regarding what spacing said, you also have separators
2020-12-04T10:52:31 < jadew> so you can write 1'000'000
2020-12-04T10:52:37 < jadew> for readability
2020-12-04T10:56:10 < mawk> that messes up with syntactic coloration
2020-12-04T10:56:23 < mawk> and if you have an odd number of ' then your whole file is messed up
2020-12-04T10:56:39 < jadew> maybe in eclipse
2020-12-04T10:58:31 < mawk> in emacs too
2020-12-04T10:59:51 < Steffanx> so fixed the highlighter
2020-12-04T11:00:49 < jadew> I really like the number literals in c++
2020-12-04T11:00:56 < jadew> wait_for(100ms)
2020-12-04T11:01:08 < jadew> how cool is that?
2020-12-04T11:01:49 < qyx> and what does 100ms convert to?
2020-12-04T11:01:54 < qyx> 0.1f?
2020-12-04T11:02:11 < jadew> it converts to std::chrono::milliseconds(100)
2020-12-04T11:02:31 < jadew> which probably gets cast to std::chrono::duration or something
2020-12-04T11:04:21 < PaulFertser> In C++ since C++14 https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/integer_literal , not in C: https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/language/integer_constant
2020-12-04T11:09:22 < jadew> man... I have a todo list that is so long, I need to start todo items to look through the todo list for important items
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2020-12-04T11:12:25 < Steffanx> #1 - picologger clone
2020-12-04T11:12:40 < jadew> haha
2020-12-04T11:12:52 < jadew> that's actually not on the list
2020-12-04T11:14:31 < jadew> speaking of which, can you buy enamel coating like the one used on wires?
2020-12-04T11:15:33 < jadew> I want to make a tiny temperature probe and I would like it to be electrically isolated
2020-12-04T11:24:30 < srk> v :: Velocity Double 
2020-12-04T11:24:32 < srk> v = 90 *~ (kilo meter / hour)
2020-12-04T11:25:44 < srk> then you can divide it by unit to get value - v /~ (meter / second)
2020-12-04T11:33:02 < Steffanx> whatever *~ might be
2020-12-04T11:33:11 < Steffanx> or /~
2020-12-04T11:33:29 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/UoRdo
2020-12-04T11:33:30 < karlp> machinehum: chuckm has one in a pr on -examples iirc
2020-12-04T11:33:30 < zyp> fun stuff
2020-12-04T11:34:01 < Steffanx> whops
2020-12-04T11:37:16 < karlp> nvm, it's much simpler than I thought, it's just some basic stdio stuff, fgets and stuff, it's in https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/pull/113/files anyway
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2020-12-04T11:57:08 < karlp> man, were those arecibo videos as painfully slow to download for everyone else?
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2020-12-04T12:06:25 < jpa-> karlp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHx1TLj0zvA was fast for me
2020-12-04T12:13:00 < karlp> thanks
2020-12-04T12:28:09 < jadew> jeez.. shipping from china is super expensive now
2020-12-04T12:28:31 < jadew> $80 for shipping a couple of boards + stencil
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2020-12-04T12:29:53 < jpa-> jadew: jlcpcb has been shipping for the pretty normal $23 to me
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2020-12-04T12:31:34 < jadew> I'll do freight collect this time since I never did that before, but I'll keep it in mind
2020-12-04T12:33:48 < jadew> $30 by regular post...
2020-12-04T12:33:52 < jadew> lol
2020-12-04T12:34:39 < jpa-> from what company is this?
2020-12-04T12:34:43 < jadew> elecrow
2020-12-04T12:34:48 < jadew> maybe I should find a different one
2020-12-04T12:34:56 < jadew> their quoting system sucks balls too
2020-12-04T12:35:13 < jadew> 20 boards are more expensive than two orders of 10
2020-12-04T12:35:24 < jadew> 30 too
2020-12-04T12:35:55 < jadew> ah, no, 30 are not more expensive
2020-12-04T12:35:56 < zyp> is renode the shit now if I wanna emulate a cortex-m?
2020-12-04T12:36:59 < karlp> I'd definitely recommend having a look at it.
2020-12-04T12:37:15 < karlp> you definitely want to run master though
2020-12-04T12:38:02 < zyp> for the time being I'm mostly just interested in the cpu, don't really need peripherals apart from a way to get out prints
2020-12-04T12:38:09 < zyp> so qemu with semihosting would also do
2020-12-04T12:38:37 < karlp> renode will probably also make that simpler
2020-12-04T12:38:40 < zyp> but I haven't touched qemu for years, so I figure getting up to speed with renode might be just as fast
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2020-12-04T12:52:56 < zyp> okay, looking at what renode claims to be able to do, it's actually looking pretty awesome
2020-12-04T12:56:37 < karlp> yeah, much nicer to work with than qemu
2020-12-04T12:57:48 < zyp> the possibility for hybrid setups looks pretty nice too (peripherals in fpga, cpu in sim)
2020-12-04T12:58:06 < karlp> yup
2020-12-04T12:58:16 < karlp> I had real apps talking to the sims nicely
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2020-12-04T12:59:09 < zyp> one benefit is it'd speed up fpga iterations since you can instance only the peripheral, leaving out the need to synthesize the cpu every iteration
2020-12-04T12:59:38 < zyp> when developing custom peripherals
2020-12-04T13:12:04 < PaulFertser> Why do github and bitbucket not allow creating new repositories by simply pushing via ssh to a URL? That seems to be an obvious and easy to implement feature (and it's available in e.g. gitolite), why is it missing there?
2020-12-04T13:12:33 < zyp> have you tried asking them?
2020-12-04T13:12:42 < Steffanx> Lol 
2020-12-04T13:13:01 < Steffanx> Why ask them when there is ##stm32 🥳
2020-12-04T13:13:02 < karlp> it's a pretty niche usecase anyway.
2020-12-04T13:13:02 < BrainDamage> arch linux also lets you do it, they probably simply haven't thought about it
2020-12-04T13:13:34 < karlp> arch linux lets you what? create git repos?
2020-12-04T13:13:48 < BrainDamage> yes, for user contributed packages
2020-12-04T13:13:50 < BrainDamage> aka the aur
2020-12-04T13:13:55 < zyp> if I had to guess, I'd assume the main argument against it is the risk of unintentionally creating new repositories by typoing the url to an existing one you're trying to push to
2020-12-04T13:14:08 < BrainDamage> there's also the slight inconvenience that creating a repo that way will have a series of github-specific settings not set
2020-12-04T13:14:13 < BrainDamage> like eg public repo
2020-12-04T13:15:54 < BrainDamage> you could in theory create a page to set the default values or maybe read them from a file in the repo itself, but it starts becoming a non trivial feature
2020-12-04T13:16:23 < PaulFertser> karlp: imagine I want to quickly publish some git tree. Why should I fill the metadata of the project or mess with any other APIs when I just want a public URL where that code can later be pulled from.
2020-12-04T13:17:01 < BrainDamage> because their usecase includes projects where they aren't public
2020-12-04T13:17:16 < BrainDamage> and accidentally publishing a private repo as public is a horrible mistake
2020-12-04T13:17:57 < zyp> also a fair argument
2020-12-04T13:20:33 < karlp> PaulFertser: I know what it's fore, I just think it's fairly niche.
2020-12-04T13:21:56 < PaulFertser> karlp: hm, I would expect it to be quite common. You just want a public tree to send a pull request or just show the code. Feels quite natural to just push to a new name.
2020-12-04T13:22:37 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: well it can be differentiated by some URL portion and they can make projects private by default.
2020-12-04T13:23:43 < BrainDamage> then you're throwing away the convenience you were looking for
2020-12-04T13:23:57 < BrainDamage> might as well use the github cli to setup the repo
2020-12-04T13:24:36 < BrainDamage> you could probably even automate repo creation with a hook
2020-12-04T13:27:13 < PaulFertser> github cli would require additional tools.
2020-12-04T13:28:11 < PaulFertser> And I can't see how I'd be throwing away anything if I would have to type "git push git@github.com:public/mynewrepo HEAD:master" instead of just github.com:mynewrepo
2020-12-04T13:29:46 < karlp> you could have made like 1000 repos in the time it takes to moan that you can't do it in a single command...
2020-12-04T13:30:08 < PaulFertser> karlp: if I wanted to use a web browser, to log in etc etc 
2020-12-04T13:30:15 < PaulFertser> It feels unnatural
2020-12-04T13:30:30  * karlp cries a river
2020-12-04T13:31:25 < BrainDamage> send them a feature request, the public url scheme looks ok
2020-12-04T13:38:02 < dongs> whats the easiest way to send/receive can frames from PC/USB
2020-12-04T13:39:36 < zyp> depends what your goal is
2020-12-04T13:39:45 < dongs> testing of can bootloader on stm
2020-12-04T13:40:20 < zyp> what can hardware are you planning to use?
2020-12-04T13:40:36 < dongs> anything I guess? i probably have some waveshare board with a can breakout on it
2020-12-04T13:41:01 < zyp> so you'll run your own usb/can firmware or something?
2020-12-04T13:41:11 < dongs> well i would rather not on PC end
2020-12-04T13:41:26 < dongs> is there some 1click usb2can shit that just works?
2020-12-04T13:41:30 < dongs> like ftdi serial type thing
2020-12-04T13:41:39 < zyp> dunno
2020-12-04T13:42:25 < zyp> I was about to write something a year or two ago for my serial console over can shit
2020-12-04T13:42:36 < dongs> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/cd00264321-can-protocol-used-in-the-stm32-bootloader-stmicroelectronics.pdf like i want to talk with this
2020-12-04T13:42:46 < dongs> from PC? i guess
2020-12-04T13:43:51 < zyp> but decided that ended up being too much hassle on the host side of that again, so I'm just doing the CAN frame handling directly on the mcu translating it directly to serial console over ACM
2020-12-04T13:44:03 < qyx> dongs: stlinkv3!
2020-12-04T13:44:11 < dongs> wat? it has can?
2020-12-04T13:44:14 < qyx> yes
2020-12-04T13:44:19 < zyp> huh, cool
2020-12-04T13:44:20 < qyx> the mods version
2020-12-04T13:44:24 < qyx> i2c and spi too
2020-12-04T13:44:30 < qyx> you have to download some ST lib
2020-12-04T13:46:03 < dongs> so if max can data size is like 8 bytes
2020-12-04T13:46:12 < dongs> does that mean you gotta spam like a whole bunch of them for a 2k page write
2020-12-04T13:46:19 < zyp> yes
2020-12-04T13:46:35 < qyx> can isotp is your friend
2020-12-04T13:46:53 < qyx> theres a native linux support if you are interested
2020-12-04T13:47:15 < dongs> yeah im sure i am not interested
2020-12-04T13:47:27 < zyp> qyx, why didn't you mention that the other day when I were going on about can fragmentation schemes?
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2020-12-04T13:47:44 < dongs> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stlink-v3-bridge.html this ?
2020-12-04T13:47:45 < qyx> zyp: I didn't notice, sry
2020-12-04T13:48:03 < dongs> > User-friendly ULTIMATE LIBERTY license agreement
2020-12-04T13:48:08 < dongs> ultimate libertyb
2020-12-04T13:48:21 < qyx> yes
2020-12-04T13:48:42 < qyx> I didn't use it yet, I hope it works, I'll need it too
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2020-12-04T13:49:33 < qyx> but
2020-12-04T13:49:44 < zyp> hmm, I was thinking about canfd though
2020-12-04T13:50:00 < qyx> theres also a firmware for F042 converting it to usb-can bridge with some standard virtual can interface
2020-12-04T13:50:00 < dongs> wahts is fd? full duplex?
2020-12-04T13:50:07 < qyx> ni, flexible datarate
2020-12-04T13:50:18 < dongs> qyx, that sounds interesting, but uh i dont think my F042s have can
2020-12-04T13:50:19 < zyp> also faster an larger payload support
2020-12-04T13:50:25 < zyp> F042 got can
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2020-12-04T13:50:37 < dongs> all of htem?
2020-12-04T13:50:39 < zyp> my can shell to ACM adapter runs on f042
2020-12-04T13:50:49 < dongs> Controller area network (bxCAN)
2020-12-04T13:50:50 < dongs> This section applies to STM32F042, STM32F072 and STM32F09x devices only.
2020-12-04T13:50:51 < dongs> hmm yeah
2020-12-04T13:51:29 < dongs> qyx, link? i could prolly negro up one of my F042 boards if this is the case
2020-12-04T13:52:41 < qyx> trying to find it
2020-12-04T13:53:08 < qyx> was it this https://www.electronics-lab.com/open-source-can-bridge/
2020-12-04T13:53:29 < dongs> that looks awfully autistic
2020-12-04T13:53:35 < dongs> why is there like 5 chips on that thing
2020-12-04T13:55:03 < dongs> http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/25dd17859cd8d1d4499dc30856fd0539?size=800 got my new linkedin photo ready
2020-12-04T13:56:27 < dongs> Erreur 503 - Service temporairement indisponible ou en maintenance
2020-12-04T13:56:57 < dongs> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H43132a86b2114f5b9dc13e9b4b9da39dD/STM32F042-Development-Board-LIN-Line-Development-Board-Dapat-Bus-Development-Board-LIN-untuk-USB-Bisa-untuk.jpg_q50.jpg
2020-12-04T13:56:58 < qyx> https://canable.io/
2020-12-04T13:57:01 < qyx> this is it
2020-12-04T13:57:01 < dongs> there's this chink shit
2020-12-04T13:57:27 < qyx> The CANable is based on Eric Evenchick's CANtact project, an open-hardware USB to CAN adapter.
2020-12-04T13:58:37 < dongs> where is all teh sores lol
2020-12-04T13:58:41 < dongs> all isee is links to store
2020-12-04T13:58:55 < BrainDamage> they should name the 2nd version the CAN-a-bis
2020-12-04T13:59:46 < qyx> https://cantact.io/introduction.html
2020-12-04T14:00:11 < dongs> https://github.com/linklayer/cantact-hw/blob/master/cantact.pdf fucking kikecad
2020-12-04T14:00:29 < dongs> okj so its literally just
2020-12-04T14:00:37 < dongs> F042 + can trasnsceiver
2020-12-04T14:00:38 < qyx> https://github.com/linklayer/cantact-fw
2020-12-04T14:00:41 < dongs> ya
2020-12-04T14:00:55 < dongs> lool unsigned driver
2020-12-04T14:00:59 < dongs> RIP using that shit on windows.
2020-12-04T14:01:18 < karlp> you just buy something form your tools vendor on window though right?
2020-12-04T14:01:23 < karlp> why you tryionmg to do freebie shit?
2020-12-04T14:01:32 < karlp> only good source is closed source remember...
2020-12-04T14:01:46 < dongs> youre not wrong
2020-12-04T14:02:24 < dongs> ok looks like it just comes up as USB CDC
2020-12-04T14:02:38 < dongs> i could prolly fake teh descriptors + vid/pid to match something standard
2020-12-04T14:28:24 < srk> proly just slcan
2020-12-04T14:28:52 < srk> you don't even need USB, even UART will do for low speeds
2020-12-04T14:29:36 < srk> heh, my old wireless mouse stopped working and I can fix it by touching crystal
2020-12-04T14:29:38 < srk> great
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2020-12-04T14:37:41 < zyp> okay, first renode impression: this is neat
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2020-12-04T14:53:16 < karlp> that was mine as well.
2020-12-04T14:58:04 < zyp> UI is a bit annoying, keyboard shortcuts feels a bit weird
2020-12-04T14:58:09 < zyp> but meh :)
2020-12-04T15:13:14 < qyx> so I was measuring some actual thing using the sama5d27 main board i mentioned
2020-12-04T15:13:23 < qyx> it is damn slow
2020-12-04T15:13:44 < qyx> it compresses 400 KB/s with gzip in the fastest setting
2020-12-04T15:31:44 < zyp> hrm
2020-12-04T15:31:47 < zyp> error: inconsistent begin/end types in range-based 'for' statement: 'asdf' and 'asdf::sentinel'
2020-12-04T15:32:18 < zyp> I don't understand why I'm getting that, as far as I can see what I'm trying to do has been legal since C++17, and I'm building as C++20
2020-12-04T15:32:31 < mawk> show code
2020-12-04T15:32:56 < zyp> for(int i : range(5)) {
2020-12-04T15:34:01 < mawk> what is range(5)?
2020-12-04T15:34:07 < mawk> I don't find it in the stdlib
2020-12-04T15:34:51 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/BbUX4 <- it's part of the mess I'm putting together
2020-12-04T15:35:57 < mawk> ah
2020-12-04T15:36:02 < mawk> well the error is pretty explicit
2020-12-04T15:36:10 < zyp> yes
2020-12-04T15:36:11 < mawk> begin() and end() should return iterators, or at least pointers
2020-12-04T15:36:30 < zyp> yes, asdf is an iterator, and asdf::sentinel is a sentinel
2020-12-04T15:36:55 < zyp> and this should have been legal since C++17, so I don't understand why I'm getting the error
2020-12-04T15:37:28 < mawk> ah yes
2020-12-04T15:37:35 < mawk> well, is C++20 fully implemented in your compiler yet?
2020-12-04T15:37:56 < zyp> dunno, but I'd expect at least C++17 to be
2020-12-04T15:38:23 < mawk> ah yes it's C++17
2020-12-04T15:39:43 < mawk> maybe you need to change a bit signatures of your operators
2020-12-04T15:39:53 < mawk> bool operator!=(const sentinel&)
2020-12-04T15:39:59 < mawk> but probably it's not because of that
2020-12-04T15:40:27 < zyp> thanks, that was exactly it
2020-12-04T15:40:35 < mawk> ah nice
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2020-12-04T16:11:22 < zyp> hooking gdb to renode didn't work very well
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2020-12-04T16:17:02 < karlp> they have notes on it?
2020-12-04T16:17:23 < karlp> it worked for me at least, but I didn't do much with it
2020-12-04T16:17:28 < zyp> you mean this? https://renode.readthedocs.io/en/latest/debugging/gdb.html
2020-12-04T16:17:38 < karlp> I was testing whether I could catch interrupts I was expecting ont he simmed periphs
2020-12-04T16:17:53 < karlp> yeah, that
2020-12-04T16:18:59 < qyx> A typical MCU ADC of 10-bit resolution has only seven bits of
2020-12-04T16:19:00 < qyx> accurate performance, providing a 36-mV resolution
2020-12-04T16:19:04 < qyx> where are they living
2020-12-04T16:19:15 < qyx> is that on MSP430
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2020-12-04T16:32:28 < zyp> heh
2020-12-04T16:32:53 < zyp> okay, my generator is working, but apparently malloc is not
2020-12-04T16:33:51 < zyp> things started working once I just told operator new to return a fixed addr rather than call malloc
2020-12-04T16:38:39 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HlW3e
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2020-12-04T16:41:12 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zaQya.png
2020-12-04T17:03:34 < karlp> yup. looks like c++.
2020-12-04T17:07:01 < fenugrec> well, I'll think twice before ever ordering from newark again
2020-12-04T17:19:02 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/MachinePix/status/1334559037157994496
2020-12-04T17:21:05 < karlp> oh yeah, i saw that the other day, it's fucking cool hey
2020-12-04T17:24:51 < fenugrec> did something similar by accident, pressure-testing a cubic welded alu tank... wasn't cubic for long
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2020-12-04T17:51:33 < englishman> newark sux
2020-12-04T17:51:45 < Steffanx> what about arrow?
2020-12-04T17:52:11 < englishman> too cool for school
2020-12-04T17:54:45 < fenugrec> plus they don't stock my favorite snake-oil audio cables, http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/products/digital-cables/varadig/
2020-12-04T17:55:39 < fenugrec> "  the Varidig allows more digital information from the source to reach the destination undistorted, and it's audible: subjectively, reduced or eliminated reflections in a digital cable is perceived as more silent background, cleaner overall sound and better "focus" and "attack". "
2020-12-04T17:57:12 < karlp> zyp: that -Wvolatile thing looks like just fucking pain
2020-12-04T17:59:34 < brdb> normally, I'd ask this question in ##C but I can't reproduce my issue on standard gcc it only seems to happen in arm-gcc when running on my stm32f0: https://pastebin.com/CwfSHAmg
2020-12-04T18:00:36 < brdb> the issue is the rotation in the different file seems to cause it to hang in my actual stm32 code. the example is essentially the same thing, but the difference is i'm reading from 'data[i]' during an interrupt (not writing)
2020-12-04T18:01:43 < brdb> the odd thing is for the rotate function on my stm, if the count for the for loop is greater than 3, arbitrarily, it starts failing (hanging). however if i set the data to a fixed value 'data[i] = 0xFF' it works, but 'data[i+1]' causes it to lose it's shit
2020-12-04T18:02:34 < brdb> the catch here seems to be that if i put the for loop in main.c it seems to work with the actual rotation, so i'm doing something horribly wrong or stupid
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2020-12-04T18:04:15 < c10ud> brdb, how are you reading data[i] from the irq?
2020-12-04T18:06:03 < brdb> for loop just setting a 'uint8_t otherdata[]' to '(data[i] << 8) & 0xFF00'
2020-12-04T18:06:12 < brdb> race condition?
2020-12-04T18:06:25 < c10ud> where is otherdata stocked?
2020-12-04T18:06:37 < brdb> also in main.c for now
2020-12-04T18:07:11 < c10ud> if it races it wont crash, just print bogus data
2020-12-04T18:07:22 < c10ud> maybe youre fucking up the avail stack somehow
2020-12-04T18:08:06 < brdb> that's my guess, but it only happens if 'func.c' tries to rotate the array, if instead i actually just change the contents 'data[i] = 0x55AA55' it works
2020-12-04T18:09:35 < brdb> i even tried storing the 'data[i+1]' into a temp var to then set 'data[i]=' to which results in the same hang/failure
2020-12-04T18:10:03 < brdb> something about 'data[i]=data[i+1]' it just hates
2020-12-04T18:10:36 < fenugrec> hm, " (data[i] << 8) & 0xFF00 " ... that won't fit in a uint8
2020-12-04T18:10:48 < brdb> oh sorry, i wrote it bad there
2020-12-04T18:10:58 < c10ud> well data[size_data] will go out of the array
2020-12-04T18:11:02 < brdb> right
2020-12-04T18:12:14 < brdb> fenugrec: i meant more '(data[i] >> 8) & 0xFF' or something, i can dig up specifically what I did but this doesn't seem to be the issue
2020-12-04T18:13:02 < brdb> c10ud: i'm not setting 'data[size_data]' anywhere, as the for loop is < (size_data - 1) resulting in a final value of i after the loop being [size_data - 1], and the last loop run being [size_data - 2]
2020-12-04T18:13:42 < c10ud> right, I misread the for loop
2020-12-04T18:13:50 < brdb> at first i thought compiler optimization doing something strange, but this didn't seem to be the case either
2020-12-04T18:14:08 < c10ud> you're getting an hardfault exception or what
2020-12-04T18:14:33 < mawk> valgrind your code brdb 
2020-12-04T18:14:34 < mawk> on pc
2020-12-04T18:14:46 < mawk> see if it gives out of bounds errors and so on
2020-12-04T18:15:14 < mawk> to eliminate potential masked issues with the code itself
2020-12-04T18:15:37 < brdb> im not sure, it streams the data out every systick interrupt and shows up on the scope, but as soon as I try to do the array rotation outside of main.c it stops spewing data out entirely (maybe some sort of infinite loop, but that should still be interrupt safe)
2020-12-04T18:15:52 < brdb> hmm maybe mawk, i'd have to figure out how to reproduce it
2020-12-04T18:16:02 < mawk> you don't have to reproduce it
2020-12-04T18:16:06 < brdb> i have yet to actually figure out how to debug a running stm32 using openocd/gdb
2020-12-04T18:16:12 < mawk> even if the code works, valgrind will tell you if it's shaky
2020-12-04T18:16:49 < mawk> well just run openocd, then gdb
2020-12-04T18:16:51 < mawk> in that order
2020-12-04T18:17:27 < mawk> you run openocd, then insie gdb you set target remote-extended 127.0.0.1 6666
2020-12-04T18:17:31 < mawk> something like that
2020-12-04T18:17:52 < brdb> hmm okay, will have to see about maybe setting break points and seeing what the hell it's doing during the array rotation loop
2020-12-04T18:18:16 < mawk> you said you can't reproduce on standard gcc, that means you have a version of the code that actually works on pc right?
2020-12-04T18:18:23 < mawk> just start that executable with valgrind, it takes 30s
2020-12-04T18:18:36 < mawk> and it will tell you any potential bugs that could be triggered in a slightly different setup
2020-12-04T18:18:53 < brdb> mostly just a duplicate, i can't really run the whole interrupt portion of it easily on plain jane gcc right
2020-12-04T18:18:57 < mawk> so called heisenbugs
2020-12-04T18:19:06 < mawk> ah I see
2020-12-04T18:19:20 < brdb> well, that's assuming the interrupt is causing it to fault with the rotation
2020-12-04T18:19:45 < brdb> i'll also try removing reading 'data[i]' in the interrupt to see if that does anything different
2020-12-04T18:21:35 < brdb> i still don't entirely understand that if i put the rotation function in 'main.c' it works
2020-12-04T18:21:53 < brdb> that lead me to think compiler optimization or something
2020-12-04T18:22:32 < c10ud> compile with O0 but usually compilers are not wrong..
2020-12-04T18:23:05 < c10ud> probably something in your irq triggers a segfault
2020-12-04T18:23:27 < mawk> try to get gdb going
2020-12-04T18:23:30 < mawk> it would be much easier to debug
2020-12-04T18:25:14 < fenugrec> from within arm-gdb, you can do a " target remote | openocd -f openocd.cfg -c "gdb_port pipe; log_output oocd.log" "
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2020-12-04T18:26:45 < fenugrec> with openocd.cfg containing the usual "source ... transport .. " etc. 
2020-12-04T18:27:20 < fenugrec> e.g. https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/5dc9dfac792305e2ec310b826296554f206da7aa/tests/gadget-zero/openocd.stm32f072disco.cfg
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2020-12-04T18:35:38 < brdb> will do
2020-12-04T18:35:47 < brdb> i take that back it doesnt work in main.c
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2020-12-04T18:39:34 < qyx> are there any options to use uSD at 1V8?
2020-12-04T18:40:17 < qyx> there are none eMMC for 1V8 it seems
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2020-12-04T18:48:55 < qyx> fuk that thing, I am not willing to 1.8V->3.0V smps
2020-12-04T18:48:59 < qyx> do
2020-12-04T18:54:16 < fenugrec> where<s your 1V8 coming from ??
2020-12-04T18:55:06 < qyx> from a lisocl working down to ~2.somethng V
2020-12-04T18:55:37 < bitmask> damn, why are art supplies so expensive, $360 spent and I still need mica pigment and hydrodipping film, thats like another couple hundred
2020-12-04T19:02:27 < fenugrec> qyx, the coin cells or 1/2AA ones ? those are > 3V for most of their charge IIRC
2020-12-04T19:04:39 < qyx> thats not the question, theres a single 1V8 available in the system
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2020-12-04T19:19:19 < englishman> there's low voltage usd
2020-12-04T19:19:43 < englishman> idk why som people connect those lines to 1.8v maybe it's in some spec that it works
2020-12-04T19:19:58 < englishman> but the spec I read says you have to start at 3.3 and switch over later
2020-12-04T19:20:28 -!- funky [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting...]
2020-12-04T19:21:27 < karlp> that was myu understanding as well
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2020-12-04T19:23:14 < qyx> apparently theres some SD spec 6 thing marking cards which are able to start at 1V8 as "LV"
2020-12-04T19:23:25 < qyx> but I didn't find any
2020-12-04T19:23:46 < qyx> yeah, classics UHS may start at 3V3 and then switch to 1V8
2020-12-04T19:24:29 < mawk> so you can use a shitty supply for the 3.3
2020-12-04T19:24:32 < mawk> since you switch after
2020-12-04T19:24:47 < mawk> doesn't have to be efficient smps
2020-12-04T19:26:41 < karlp> he needs an smps to _get_ 3.3
2020-12-04T19:28:39 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-12-04T19:28:59 < qyx> the official recommended battery is a lisocl2 one
2020-12-04T19:29:08 < qyx> but the device must work with a alkaline AA
2020-12-04T19:29:19 < qyx> so therse a buck-boost to get 1V8
2020-12-04T19:32:18 < mawk> I mean he could use a not efficient smps to get from 1.8 to 3.3, or a charge pump or whatever
2020-12-04T19:32:32 < englishman> what's the tolerance on VCC for a usd
2020-12-04T19:32:58 < qyx> 2.7-3.6
2020-12-04T19:32:59 < englishman> can an AA supply the 500mA needed?
2020-12-04T19:33:32 < qyx> yeah, did you ever use a camera running off AAs?
2020-12-04T19:33:53 < englishman> yes but don't they charge up caps for the shutter and flash
2020-12-04T19:34:00 < englishman> also that was before uses wasn't it
2020-12-04T19:34:08 < englishman> usds
2020-12-04T19:34:17 < karlp> were sd's drawing less?
2020-12-04T19:34:32 < qyx> idk I am using a UHSI card in my 2xAA compact
2020-12-04T19:34:41 < qyx> but yes, they are able to supply 500 mA
2020-12-04T19:34:45 < qyx> even few amps some
2020-12-04T19:35:24 < englishman> with rechargeables?
2020-12-04T19:35:44 < englishman> I short them a lot for some reason and never see sparks
2020-12-04T19:36:05 < karlp> .... why are you shorting them?
2020-12-04T19:36:19 < qyx> no
2020-12-04T19:36:26 < qyx> with ikea alkalisk even
2020-12-04T19:37:07 < mawk> rechargeable is 1.2 no
2020-12-04T19:37:25 < qyx> eg. a varta industrial AA have still >80% of their capacity even at 250mA continuous
2020-12-04T19:37:58 < englishman> cool
2020-12-04T19:41:13 < qyx> I'll use a raw nand chip..
2020-12-04T19:42:44 < mawk> and some interface to fill it?
2020-12-04T19:46:42  * karlp hates rechargebales being 1.2
2020-12-04T19:46:51 < karlp> too many shitty shit that works badly at 1.2
2020-12-04T19:47:11 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-04T19:47:19 < mawk> I have to keep recharging the batteries 
2020-12-04T19:47:20 < karlp> I mena, I love them when they work.
2020-12-04T19:47:26 < mawk> probably I should throw them away and buy disposable ones
2020-12-04T19:47:32 < englishman> these Ikea tradfri devices eat through li-metal batteries and only work with some due to high peak loads. a little frustrating
2020-12-04T19:48:28 < englishman> also, don't buy cheap rechargable aas, I got a few dozen nice Jap ones like 5 years ago and no problems since then. also they don't leak when they die
2020-12-04T19:48:46 < karlp> yeah, I've got some nice eneloops
2020-12-04T19:48:53 < qyx> I am able to do ~20 pictures with my eneloops
2020-12-04T19:49:01 < qyx> then recharge again
2020-12-04T19:49:10 < karlp> bought some "nice" branded panasonics recently though, got 3 dead out 8, and one more dead now.
2020-12-04T19:49:13 < qyx> with a regular varta/energizer industrial 300-400 pictures
2020-12-04T19:49:14 < karlp> fucking trash
2020-12-04T19:49:42 < karlp> might have to try these varta ones next .)
2020-12-04T19:49:48 < karlp> gotta go with what's available though
2020-12-04T19:49:53 < mawk> 20 pictures what
2020-12-04T19:50:22 < qyx> yeah they discharge themselves with my usage pattern
2020-12-04T19:50:32 < qyx> like 20 picrues spread over 3 months
2020-12-04T19:51:41 < qyx> if I want to make more in bulk, I usually charge eneloops, do ~200 pictures until they discharge, then replace with disposables
2020-12-04T19:51:51 < qyx> ie. on a trip
2020-12-04T19:51:59 < qyx> s/ie/eg
2020-12-04T19:52:04 < mawk> you don't like smartphone for pictures?
2020-12-04T19:52:14 < qyx> no, bad quality
2020-12-04T19:52:22 < qyx> and only 640x480
2020-12-04T19:52:43 < mawk> ah, but that's just because of your smartphone
2020-12-04T19:52:49 < mawk> you could get a better device and get rid of your camera at once
2020-12-04T19:52:53 < qyx> I wouldn't call it smart
2020-12-04T19:52:58 < mawk> lol
2020-12-04T19:53:10 < qyx> it is a ~13y old sony ericsson
2020-12-04T20:00:15 < Steffanx> lol
2020-12-04T20:00:22 < Steffanx> how often did you replace the battery?
2020-12-04T20:02:14 < englishman> O.o
2020-12-04T20:02:28 < BrainDamage> did you take down your page mawk?
2020-12-04T20:02:30 < englishman> you are using a 13 year old sony ericsson as your main photo camera?
2020-12-04T20:02:37 < mawk> no BrainDamage why ?
2020-12-04T20:02:44 < mawk> https://tricks.serveur.io/
2020-12-04T20:02:51 < mawk> englishman: as his main phone
2020-12-04T20:03:17 < mawk> don't read the maths article though BrainDamage 
2020-12-04T20:03:27 < mawk> it's a strange mix of too high level and too low level stuff
2020-12-04T20:03:30 < mawk> because of Steffanx 
2020-12-04T20:03:38 < BrainDamage> dns doesn't resolve here
2020-12-04T20:03:50 < mawk> maybe I forgot to pay something
2020-12-04T20:04:00 < mawk> or your dnssec is broken
2020-12-04T20:04:03 -!- [1]MrMobius [~MrMobius@208.58.206.154] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-04T20:04:12 < BrainDamage> https://waifupaste.moe/hgP
2020-12-04T20:04:24 < BrainDamage> ahh nvm
2020-12-04T20:04:25 < BrainDamage> now it doees
2020-12-04T20:04:33 < mawk> try dig +cdflag serveur.io
2020-12-04T20:04:35 < mawk> ah
2020-12-04T20:04:49 < BrainDamage> some shenanigans on some routing I guess
2020-12-04T20:04:58 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-04T20:05:03 < mawk> I have only one authoritative dns server, myself
2020-12-04T20:05:07 < mawk> so if the link is cut, then nobody resolves me
2020-12-04T20:05:15 < mawk> probably I should rent a vps as secondary ns
2020-12-04T20:06:28 -!- MrMobius [~MrMobius@208.58.206.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-04T20:06:29 -!- [1]MrMobius is now known as MrMobius
2020-12-04T20:10:42 < Steffanx> dont use my name mawk
2020-12-04T20:10:56 < mawk> why
2020-12-04T20:10:59 < mawk> I just did
2020-12-04T20:11:09 < mawk> and nothing wrong happened, actually something good happen since you're now speaking
2020-12-04T20:25:40 < brdb> i figured it out
2020-12-04T20:26:09 < brdb> the uint32_t array should have the volatile qualifier, then additionally so must the function changing the contents
2020-12-04T20:26:44 < mawk> ah yes of course
2020-12-04T20:26:46 < brdb> fenugrec, mawk, c10ud thanks for the help y'all
2020-12-04T20:26:49 < mawk> otherwise gcc assumes it doesn't change
2020-12-04T20:26:54 < brdb> exactly
2020-12-04T20:27:08 < brdb> the confuser is only as smart as the mad ape behind the keyboard
2020-12-04T20:27:19 < mawk> lol
2020-12-04T20:27:55 < brdb> in any event it did result in me writing a much cleaner and efficient way of reading from that buffer on the interrupt
2020-12-04T20:27:59 < brdb> what a mess that was before
2020-12-04T20:29:55 < brdb> behold correcting my buzzed midnight mess: https://pastebin.com/3v4Rjwq6
2020-12-04T20:36:33 < mawk> nice
2020-12-04T20:37:49 < BrainDamage> can we put https://waifupaste.moe/ as official channel pastebin?
2020-12-04T20:37:53 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
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2020-12-04T20:40:05 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o BrainDamage] by ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:40:07 < Steffanx> Go for it.
2020-12-04T20:40:27 < englishman> anything but actual pastebin
2020-12-04T20:40:43 < englishman> what was wrong with http://bcas.tv/paste/
2020-12-04T20:40:47 < englishman> except that dongs will steal all your code
2020-12-04T20:41:23 <@BrainDamage> !topic STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | pastebin https://waifupaste.moe/
2020-12-04T20:42:31 < Steffanx> More like /topicappend or something. Is a chanserv commanx
2020-12-04T20:42:33 < Steffanx> D
2020-12-04T20:43:20 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:43:23 -!- englishman changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | pastebin https://waifupaste.moe/
2020-12-04T20:43:53 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:43:57 <@BrainDamage> chanperv said I wasn't autorized
2020-12-04T20:44:53 < Steffanx> Ah :(
2020-12-04T20:45:12 <@BrainDamage> and it was topic without !, like I remembered
2020-12-04T20:45:36 <@BrainDamage> !deop BrainDamage
2020-12-04T20:45:53 <@BrainDamage> ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:45:53 <@BrainDamage> You are not authorized to (de)op BrainDamage on ##stm32.
2020-12-04T20:46:02 <@BrainDamage> what the hell
2020-12-04T20:46:22 <@BrainDamage> I am in a superposition of OP and not OP
2020-12-04T20:51:33 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o englishman] by ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:51:44 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o englishman] by ChanServ
2020-12-04T20:58:04 < englishman> why would someone put pullups on JTAG pins
2020-12-04T20:58:13 < englishman> stm32f302
2020-12-04T20:58:29 < englishman> legit uestion. wondering if i can delete them
2020-12-04T20:58:55 < englishman> we are paying for double sided assembly to place 6 resistors. they are pullups on the jtag port and NRST
2020-12-04T20:59:51 < englishman> according to refman they all have internal pulls anyway
2020-12-04T21:03:09 < mawk> so did you like it BrainDamage ?
2020-12-04T21:03:19 < mawk> you earned the right to propose a next subject
2020-12-04T21:06:35 < PaulFertser> lol englishman 
2020-12-04T21:07:16 < PaulFertser> iirc the suggest external pull on nRST for very harsh conditions or something like that.
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2020-12-04T21:22:53 < zyp> karlp, yeah, it's not gonna be fun fixing all those
2020-12-04T21:23:07 < zyp> although not too hard tbh
2020-12-04T21:33:47 < englishman> The JTAG IEEE standard recommends to add pull-ups on TDI, TMS and nTRST but there is
2020-12-04T21:33:47 < englishman> no special recommendation for TCK. However, for JTCK, the device needs an integrated
2020-12-04T21:33:47 < englishman> pull-down.
2020-12-04T21:33:47 < englishman> Having embedded pull-ups and pull-downs removes the need to add external resistors.
2020-12-04T21:35:18 < mawk> otherwise put a nice tht resistor on the other side yourself
2020-12-04T21:44:17 < qyx> Steffanx: only twice
2020-12-04T21:45:35 < fenugrec> brdb, cool. Don't forget, volatile doesn't mean atomic, etc etc.
2020-12-04T21:46:23 < zyp> englishman, stronger pulls = less noise sensitivity
2020-12-04T21:47:04 < zyp> not sure how harsh the harsh conditions have to be for it to matter though, I've never bothered
2020-12-04T22:02:37 < qyx> usb pros, https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/USB2412
2020-12-04T22:03:02 < qyx> do I understand it correctly I cannot use this chip to hub FS and HS together?
2020-12-04T22:03:53 < qyx> . The USB2412 supports low-speed, full-speed, and high-speed (if operating as a Hi-Speed USB hub
2020-12-04T22:04:16 < mawk> that's not what I understand
2020-12-04T22:04:18 < qyx> or it means that if upstream is FS, downstream cannot be HS?
2020-12-04T22:04:30 < mawk> what I understand is that if it's operating as HS, then it supports LS, FS and HS
2020-12-04T22:04:57 < mawk> so yes what you said
2020-12-04T22:05:03 < mawk> last thing you said
2020-12-04T22:05:14 < qyx> k, thanks
2020-12-04T22:19:07 < brdb> fenugrec: i'll have to read up on what the difference is of what you mean
2020-12-04T22:19:10 < brdb> thanks for the advise
2020-12-04T22:20:37 < brdb> waifupaste is fun, i don't remember the one used in other irc channels that had cools names like ix or some minimal c-developer variable name
2020-12-04T22:20:46 < zyp> qyx, well, duh
2020-12-04T22:20:46 < brdb> yeah it was ix.io
2020-12-04T22:21:32 < zyp> qyx, transaction translators only translate between HS upstream and FS/LS downstream, the other way around is not supported by the spec
2020-12-04T22:22:05 < zyp> and it'd also be meaningless to have a downstream HS segment when you'd be bottlenecked by the FS upstream
2020-12-04T22:23:08 < zyp> and also the whole thing about HS being introduced in usb2, FS in usb1, so your FS upstream might be a usb1 host that doesn't know jack shit about what to do with a device presenting a HS config
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2020-12-04T22:36:36 < zyp> 16:03:35 < karlp> yup. looks like c++.
2020-12-04T22:36:50 < zyp> idk, to me it's kinda starting to look like python
2020-12-04T22:42:55 < englishman> oh i see
2020-12-04T22:43:03 < englishman> ST devboards have them
2020-12-04T22:43:09 < englishman> and TI recommends to put them
2020-12-04T22:43:15 < englishman> and it was drawn by a MSP430 guy
2020-12-04T22:44:13 < zyp> «MSP430 guy» sounds pretty derogatory
2020-12-04T22:45:30 < Steffanx> Thats what its supposed to sound like ;)
2020-12-04T23:24:10 < zyp> karlp, looks like the gdb issues I was having might have been related to the gdb version (10), gdb 8 seems to behave better
2020-12-04T23:25:42 < karlp> yeah, new major gbd's are sometimes surprising
2020-12-04T23:26:18 < zyp> not sure how stable it's supposed to be, it's from the 2020-q2-preview package
2020-12-04T23:27:53 < zyp> hmm, might be related to this: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25560
2020-12-04T23:28:22 < qyx> whoa AXO215
2020-12-04T23:28:31 < qyx> a 400e accelerometer
2020-12-04T23:34:09 <@BrainDamage> PaulFertser: https://shaunlebron.github.io/parinfer/
2020-12-04T23:35:48 < zyp> ohh
2020-12-04T23:36:39 < zyp> looking at why malloc fails, looks like _sbrk isn't even getting called
2020-12-04T23:37:08 < zyp> that'd explain why it doesn't pick up the correct address
2020-12-04T23:37:16 < zyp> but not where it gets the wrong one from :)
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2020-12-04T23:49:16 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: fancy!
2020-12-04T23:54:18 < karlp> waifupaste doesn't let you actually..... paste
2020-12-04T23:54:25 < karlp> you have to curl or upload a file
2020-12-04T23:55:50 < Steffanx> A really? That sounds useless indeed 
2020-12-04T23:56:34 < zyp> anybody got an idea why malloc isn't calling _sbrk?
2020-12-04T23:56:57 < zyp> I get a linker error if I leave _sbrk out, so something is referencing it
2020-12-04T23:57:13 < zyp> but if I set a breakpoint on it, I never get there
--- Day changed Sat Dec 05 2020
2020-12-05T00:01:44 < karlp> BrainDamage: am I holding it wrong? I propsoe paste.jvnv.net instead.
2020-12-05T00:02:01 < karlp> actually, I propose zyp adding waifus or something similarly ##stm32 styled to paste.jvnv...
2020-12-05T00:02:27 <@BrainDamage> I second karlp's proposal
2020-12-05T00:05:40 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o BrainDamage] by ChanServ
2020-12-05T00:06:37 < zyp> try submitting a patch to Jon or something: https://cgit.jvnv.net/pastepy/
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2020-12-05T01:19:24 < zyp> oh, fuck, this is some bullshit
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2020-12-05T01:23:27 < Laurenceb> yeah I just joined
2020-12-05T01:23:48 < zyp> .data LMA is misaligned but the _data_rom symbol is somehow aligned, making it off by two
2020-12-05T01:24:01 < zyp> so when .data is copied from flash to ram everything is shifted two bytes over
2020-12-05T01:24:13 < Laurenceb> is this the linker scirpt for the chip inside the covid-19 vaccine?
2020-12-05T01:24:54 < zyp> and malloc() expects to find some pointers there, and following them doesn't work out well
2020-12-05T01:27:11 < zyp> yeah, getting .data properly aligned fixed everything
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2020-12-05T01:27:25 < zyp> damn I wasted too much time on this shit
2020-12-05T01:27:58 < jly> I came here and i want to be a real nigger
2020-12-05T01:28:50 < Laurenceb> insert GNAA copypasta here
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2020-12-05T01:30:24 < zyp> at least I learned something about renode
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2020-12-05T02:15:45 < Laurenceb> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/139/386/ec9.jpg_large
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2020-12-05T03:25:54 < mawk> Steffanx: 
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2020-12-05T03:29:08 < Steffanx> What what
2020-12-05T03:29:14 < Steffanx> Mr maw
2020-12-05T03:29:17 < Steffanx> Mawk.
2020-12-05T03:29:25 < mawk> nothing
2020-12-05T03:29:37 < mawk> you said don't say my name
2020-12-05T03:29:43 < mawk> so I protest
2020-12-05T03:30:19 < mawk> zyp: it's your own malloc?
2020-12-05T03:30:26 < mawk> or the libc's
2020-12-05T03:30:39 < mawk> if it's the libc's did you think of fulfilling the malloc_locked mechanism or whatever it is?
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2020-12-05T11:37:22 < zyp> mawk, it's the newlib malloc
2020-12-05T11:37:38 < zyp> and no, it's not locking, but it's only running a single thread so that doesn't matter
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2020-12-05T11:39:17 < PaulFertser> The very first malloc call always lead to _sbrk in my testing.
2020-12-05T11:51:20 < qyx> 0.35-mm Pitch WCSP Package
2020-12-05T11:51:26 < qyx> ok ty
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2020-12-05T12:04:30 < qyx> so it seems SDA membership/fee is officialy needed to use a SDIO 1-4bit protocol
2020-12-05T12:05:01 < qyx> isn't it paid by ST?
2020-12-05T12:05:07 < effractur> yes
2020-12-05T12:05:11 < effractur> no
2020-12-05T12:05:43 < effractur> you need a host licence to use it afaik
2020-12-05T12:07:05 < qyx> the only concise information I found is this https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/6qkjja/is_a_license_required_to_use_sd_cards_in_spi_mode/
2020-12-05T12:08:20 < effractur> so SPI mode has no licence
2020-12-05T12:08:47 < effractur> and according to the table on wikipedia for SDIO there is a 1000 dollar yearly fee
2020-12-05T12:10:47 < effractur> but not sure if it is needed if you solder some SDIO device on it
2020-12-05T12:12:52 < Steffanx> mawk: 
2020-12-05T12:13:55 < effractur> but this whole sd card licencing is a mess
2020-12-05T12:14:06 < qyx> I'll pretend it is a china made non-SD non-compliant fake pseudo mmc with half the capacity and broken SD logo
2020-12-05T12:14:30 < Steffanx> The question is.. is SPI mode really free? What if you do use commands that are only in documentation you need the license for (AFAIK its not all public knowledge)
2020-12-05T12:15:04 < Steffanx> Its bullshit its free because SPI is free. You still use the protocol
2020-12-05T12:15:08 < effractur> as long as you don't use the logo stuff on your prodcut etc
2020-12-05T12:15:29 < Steffanx> And there is no concise info about it on the web. 
2020-12-05T12:15:31 < qyx> someone said you can use a mmc subset of commands in SPI moe
2020-12-05T12:15:39 < qyx> in this case it is free
2020-12-05T12:15:56 < Steffanx> I recall even ST libs use non-mmc commands
2020-12-05T12:16:35 < Steffanx> If you ask the SD association they will say you need a licence (ofcourse they do)
2020-12-05T12:16:38 < effractur> as long as you don't sell the deevice
2020-12-05T12:17:03 < effractur> but the licence costs is also complicated because it seems you need multiple licences from differend organisatiosn 
2020-12-05T12:17:27 < effractur> if you also want to use the logos etc
2020-12-05T12:19:26 < qyx> I am selling the device
2020-12-05T12:19:43 < qyx> hm, I could simply use eMMC
2020-12-05T12:20:30 < qyx> if it wasnt a fukin 0.5mm pitch BGA
2020-12-05T12:24:02 < qyx> meh, when I make 100k€ a year, I'll send them 1000 € they want
2020-12-05T12:28:16 < Steffanx> :)
2020-12-05T12:28:34 < Steffanx> Just dont mention it anywhere
2020-12-05T12:29:01 < Steffanx> I also recall there is some talk about if its removable or meant to be removed by the user and stuff
2020-12-05T12:37:52 < zyp> PaulFertser, yeah, but you obviously haven't tested with your entire .data section initialization being off by two bytes
2020-12-05T12:37:59 < zyp> :)
2020-12-05T12:38:06 < PaulFertser> zyp: woohoo
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--- Log opened Sat Dec 05 13:58:39 2020
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2020-12-05T14:50:23 < jly> I need to invent computer
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2020-12-05T14:51:07 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
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2020-12-05T14:54:19 < Steffanx> Welcome back englishman
2020-12-05T14:55:11 < englishman> was I gone
2020-12-05T14:55:23 < Steffanx> for like 16 seconds, yes
2020-12-05T14:55:34 < englishman> did I miss any important chats
2020-12-05T14:55:52 < Steffanx> uuhm, not yet.
2020-12-05T15:03:16 < karlp> huh, looking for a new tv (kids. yay) no online manual available at all.  just quick start guides and "press help on the remote for more info"
2020-12-05T15:03:28 < karlp> trying to find out what "bluetooth: yes" actually means :)
2020-12-05T15:03:50 < karlp> can I stream audio to it from a record player? or does it just mean I can have bt headphones? who knows!
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2020-12-05T18:02:28 < englishman> electronics in 2020 yay
2020-12-05T18:13:51 < aandrew> hm?
2020-12-05T18:13:52 < Steffanx> What is 2020?
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2020-12-05T18:34:36 < englishman> paying hundreds of dollars for something and having no idea what's in it
2020-12-05T18:38:00 < Steffanx> At least its smart.
2020-12-05T18:43:53 < aandrew> englishman: you're speaking in riddles again
2020-12-05T18:43:54 < aandrew> stop that
2020-12-05T18:45:43 < englishman> I'm chatting in reference to what Carl said like five lines ago I understand that Mac mice don't have a scroll wheel so it might be difficult for you to see
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2020-12-05T18:48:07 < aandrew> englishman: I did not connect what he said to what you did. It's clearer now. :-)
2020-12-05T18:48:30 < aandrew> my favourite is the chinese web configuration shits that say "Auto AE: Open" 
2020-12-05T18:48:44 < aandrew> wtf does open/closed mean, is "open" activated or is "closed" activated?
2020-12-05T18:48:57 < aandrew> it could be either depending on how you want to interpret it
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2020-12-05T19:54:07 < karlp> found a sony model that seemed ok, manuals were all generic, then a nice looking help guide, -> blue tooth profiles supported -> * depends on model...
2020-12-05T19:54:18 < karlp> it was a generic tv manual for all their tvs
2020-12-05T19:54:25 < karlp> no way to see what's actually supported :)
2020-12-05T19:56:18 < englishman> lol.
2020-12-05T19:56:31 < englishman> but it's 96" and 4k for only $350!
2020-12-05T19:56:45 < karlp> quite a few seem to be only bluetooth for headphones or soundbars.
2020-12-05T19:57:10 < karlp> found an LG model that explicitly says what I want to do is supported and describes it as a good thing.
2020-12-05T19:57:15 < karlp> so likely going ot just buy it.
2020-12-05T19:57:31 < karlp> tv advice nerds are pixel peeping and wanking over audio quality
2020-12-05T19:57:43 < karlp> "the tv bit is all going to be the same guys, I don't care"
2020-12-05T19:57:54 < karlp> I want -to have less remotes and less adapter dongles and shit
2020-12-05T19:58:45 < karlp> OMG, why would you want to have audio _in_ to your tv?! the speakers are so shit, I have this wider sound stage with this SLA powered system in my viewing room *VOMITE*
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2020-12-05T20:02:13 < zyp> heh
2020-12-05T20:02:27 < karlp> https://twitter.com/manisha72617183/status/1334871506074050560
2020-12-05T20:02:43 < karlp> sorry BrainDamage, I tried replacing twitter with nitter, and it didn't work out of the box *shrugs*
2020-12-05T20:03:18 < zyp> joke's old but good :)
2020-12-05T20:03:43 < zyp> karlp, so are you saying you're looking for a tv that can do bluetooth in?
2020-12-05T20:03:46 < karlp> https://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-43un71006lb
2020-12-05T20:04:14 < karlp> yeah, bluetooth in from a record player would be a nice addition
2020-12-05T20:04:27 < karlp> they ~all have 4k/netflix/youtube/chromecast shti built in
2020-12-05T20:04:31 < karlp> that's all ~identical
2020-12-05T20:04:45 < zyp> yeah
2020-12-05T20:05:12 < karlp> so I'll get to drop the android stb we have now for netflix/youtube, 
2020-12-05T20:05:14 < englishman> when lab grown meats become commonplace, will we be able to order celebrity meats
2020-12-05T20:05:44 < aandrew> lol
2020-12-05T20:06:02 < aandrew> my daughter has a record player with bluetooth
2020-12-05T20:06:10 < englishman> shoulder of brad pitt, thigh of angela merkel
2020-12-05T20:06:13 < Steffanx> Did jadew read this yet? https://jkms.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3346/jkms.2020.35.e415
2020-12-05T20:06:24 < karlp> had been looking at a BT sound bar and letting the record player go to that, but wasn't excitedabout more remotes or the UX of that experience
2020-12-05T20:06:41 < karlp> then the daughter decided to cast spells violently with a wand on the tv last  night,
2020-12-05T20:06:45 < karlp> and now I get to shop for a new tv!
2020-12-05T20:06:52 < englishman> maybe a crt
2020-12-05T20:07:24 < karlp> I don't even know where I could buy one these days
2020-12-05T20:07:35 < karlp> and she's almost big enough for this to not be a problem, just didn't quite get there :)
2020-12-05T20:08:22 < englishman> did the spell succeed
2020-12-05T20:08:34 < srk> 100%
2020-12-05T20:08:47 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/Fo3sJ5HcQ9ysKei about that well
2020-12-05T20:49:28 < englishman> whats the big diff between f7 and h7
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2020-12-05T20:53:24 < jpa-> englishman: speed, memory size, complexity
2020-12-05T20:54:27 < jpa-> 16 bit adc, hrtim etc. small stuff also
2020-12-05T20:54:39 < englishman> i guess the lines are blurred a bit with the H7 value line
2020-12-05T20:54:48 < englishman> is there something major like double precision fpu?
2020-12-05T20:54:57 < jpa-> no, IIRC both of them have it
2020-12-05T20:55:00 < englishman> hmm
2020-12-05T20:55:53 < englishman> maybe 90nm vs 40nm?
2020-12-05T20:56:11 < jpa-> STM32H7 valueline appears to have pretty much everything the bigger ones do, just with smaller flash
2020-12-05T20:57:00 < effractur> H7 id dual core right?\
2020-12-05T20:57:12 < jpa-> (and runs at 480MHz, unlike f7 which is 216MHz)
2020-12-05T20:57:23 < jpa-> effractur: no, at least most of them are
2020-12-05T20:57:25 < jpa-> single core
2020-12-05T20:57:28 < effractur> ah
2020-12-05T20:57:29 < englishman> there are f7 at 550MHz tho
2020-12-05T20:57:57 < jpa-> englishman: huh, which one?
2020-12-05T20:58:12 < englishman> nm
2020-12-05T20:58:14 < englishman> wrongh box checked
2020-12-05T20:58:17 < englishman> yes 216MHz
2020-12-05T20:58:27 < englishman> ok quite different lol
2020-12-05T20:58:53 < jpa-> hmm, looks like some of the STM32F7 have integrates USB-HS PHY, that's nice
2020-12-05T20:59:17 < effractur> and H7 does double FPU and cant find that in the matrials of the f7
2020-12-05T20:59:20 < effractur> but maybe im wrong
2020-12-05T20:59:26 < englishman> i thought so as well
2020-12-05T20:59:29 < englishman> but they don't make it clear
2020-12-05T21:00:01 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f7-series.html   the table shows that some of F7 have double precision and some have single precision FPU
2020-12-05T21:00:45 < englishman> so for a one off hobbyproj where power isn't important i should probably choose NUCLEO-H723ZG
2020-12-05T21:01:19 < jpa-> depends on if you need the performance
2020-12-05T21:01:25 < englishman> i definitely do not
2020-12-05T21:01:36 < englishman> f303 should be fine
2020-12-05T21:01:41 < jpa-> if not, F4 is still better supported by many libraries & has less complexity because of simpler cache stuff
2020-12-05T21:01:48 < jpa-> or F3
2020-12-05T21:01:56 < englishman> i intend on using cube
2020-12-05T21:02:28 < jpa-> oh.. there's not much we can do to help our friend englishman..
2020-12-05T21:03:27 < englishman> hmm true maybe g4 would be fun
2020-12-05T21:17:19 < qyx> englishman: fdcan!
2020-12-05T21:18:38 < Steffanx> Not fdcan, CAN FD :P
2020-12-05T21:18:45 < qyx> for low cost I would choose F401/411/303
2020-12-05T21:19:03 < qyx> the periph is called fdcan vs bxcan in old mcus
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2020-12-05T21:49:36 < emeb> Anyone tried STM32H730 yet? I've got a board starting to work now. Have to use DFU bootloader to get code into it because openocd isn't connecting.
2020-12-05T21:52:02 < aandrew> I've got a H757 on my desk right now
2020-12-05T21:54:22 < emeb> cool. this is a 730 though.
2020-12-05T21:55:24 < srk> how hot they get?
2020-12-05T21:55:36 < Steffanx> I've only played with 722
2020-12-05T21:55:42 < Steffanx> F
2020-12-05T21:55:50 < Steffanx> No H yet
2020-12-05T21:56:27 < emeb> I've used H743 and H750 without problems, but they've been around for a bit.
2020-12-05T21:57:05 < Steffanx> Time to start using SEGGER ozone ;)
2020-12-05T21:57:05 < emeb> srk: not too bad. Depends on how fast you run 'em and what you do.
2020-12-05T21:57:08 < srk> I have SPRacing H7 thingie with H750 and it gets pretty hot. only tested that it blinks (presumably has betaflight loaded already) and it gets pretty hot
2020-12-05T21:58:20 < emeb> I'm running this one at 550MHz and it's barely warm.
2020-12-05T21:58:46 < emeb> but the only thing I'm doing with it is a simple LED blinky right now.
2020-12-05T22:00:58 < englishman> it's a one off so price doesn't really matter. G4 should work and will be fun to actually try a g series
2020-12-05T22:01:19 < englishman> not using can
2020-12-05T22:02:02 < englishman> tho might as well just use h7 nucleo I guess
2020-12-05T22:02:20 < englishman> might need a lot of flash
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2020-12-05T22:11:09 < zyp> karlp, I got rid of the tv remote years ago
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2020-12-05T22:26:07 < karlp> what did you replace it with?
2020-12-05T22:26:15 < karlp> voice or a phone or both?
2020-12-05T22:26:38 < zyp> 99% of tv use is via chromecast, so phone
2020-12-05T22:26:58 < karlp> englishman: theres f7' with single fpu and f7 with double fpu :)
2020-12-05T22:27:01 < zyp> and I've also hacked up some shit to turn it off when it's left idle
2020-12-05T22:27:16 < karlp> nvm, you
2020-12-05T22:27:25 < zyp> i.e. phone turns tv on and starts playing whatever, once done it turns off
2020-12-05T22:27:34 < karlp> nvm, you already covered that
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2020-12-05T22:39:02 < karlp> yeah, iirc, you found some endpoint and some mqtt hackery
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2020-12-05T22:52:44 < jly> That's why I say man, nice shot
2020-12-05T22:52:44 < jly> What a good shot man
2020-12-05T22:57:28 < kakium69> chats have gone cryptic
2020-12-05T22:58:40 < jly> gooday fokes
2020-12-05T22:59:17 < kakium69> evenings sire
2020-12-05T23:00:24 < jly> did you know
2020-12-05T23:00:34 < jly> i didn't even know
2020-12-05T23:04:31 < kakium69> ofc
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2020-12-05T23:30:38 < emeb> FWIW - H730 working w/ openocd now. Was poor soldering on SWDIO pin. :P
2020-12-05T23:32:45 < Steffanx> lol emeb
2020-12-05T23:33:27 < emeb> mistakes made in public are the best mistakes.
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--- Day changed Sun Dec 06 2020
2020-12-06T00:11:06 < Steffanx> kakium69:  did you even hear my musicz a few days ago?
2020-12-06T00:11:40 < kakium69> n
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2020-12-06T00:25:09 < Steffanx> Damn you kakium69 
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2020-12-06T00:34:32 < qyx> arecibo tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqGnnpwEwug
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2020-12-06T00:56:40 < karlp> kakium69: muzaks https://imgflip.com/i/4p7kl6
2020-12-06T00:56:42 < karlp> not that
2020-12-06T00:56:47 < karlp> https://youtu.be/8R3aQ-nRw9k that 
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2020-12-06T00:58:33 < kakium69> ah
2020-12-06T00:58:38 < kakium69> icelandic music
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2020-12-06T01:06:24 < karlp> can anyone tell me what problem this is solving? https://conan.io/
2020-12-06T01:13:27 < qyx> not a clue
2020-12-06T01:13:39 < fenugrec> wtf is jfrog
2020-12-06T01:16:19 < kakium69> is it something like that thing for python
2020-12-06T01:16:43 < fenugrec> ah yes, that thing
2020-12-06T01:16:54 < qyx> oh, noice
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2020-12-06T01:18:21 < kakium69> pypi
2020-12-06T01:18:27 < karlp> jfrog is/was a maven self host repoisotry product/company
2020-12-06T01:18:45 < karlp> I guess they decided that an artifact store was something to sell to C people too?
2020-12-06T01:19:27 < qyx> Conan is being used in production by hundreds of companies like Audi, Continental, Plex, Electrolux and Mercedes-Benz and many thousands of developers around the world.
2020-12-06T01:19:34 < qyx> at least it is known who uses it
2020-12-06T01:19:47 < qyx> companies beingn stuck in 1980's
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2020-12-06T01:20:17 < qyx> idk what is Plex though
2020-12-06T01:20:36 < karlp> they make that media server thing?
2020-12-06T01:20:43 < oz4ga> yep
2020-12-06T01:21:30 < karlp> another option for "official" pasteee, just because the domain is neat? https://paste.lossy.network/
2020-12-06T01:21:34 < oz4ga> It their logo
2020-12-06T01:24:35 < oz4ga> paste @ paste.lossy.network and it lost for ever. ;)
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2020-12-06T01:36:25 < Steffanx> Welcome jly
2020-12-06T01:36:32 < Steffanx> Got a new stm32 idea for us?
2020-12-06T01:36:56 < jly> yes
2020-12-06T01:50:54 < jly> the matrix mate
2020-12-06T01:52:25 < jly> the arbiter of doom
2020-12-06T01:52:47 < jly> Steffanx: can you PuLL it?
2020-12-06T01:53:12 < Steffanx> No, it a case of SAFU
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2020-12-06T01:54:49 < Steffanx> Id rather use some more "established" pastebinish tool. Something that will probably still exist x years from now
2020-12-06T01:57:16 < jly> u wot mate
2020-12-06T02:27:50 < englishman> I don't get plex
2020-12-06T02:35:46 < zyp> get what part of it?
2020-12-06T02:36:32 < qyx> hm, using 3 chips to read a SD card may indicate I am doing something wrong
2020-12-06T02:36:42 < zyp> haha
2020-12-06T02:36:43 < zyp> how?
2020-12-06T02:37:01 < qyx> I am running STM32 at 1V8, bummer
2020-12-06T02:37:07 < qyx> so voltage translator is the first
2020-12-06T02:37:16 < zyp> makes sense
2020-12-06T02:37:23 < qyx> I get SD/SPI at 3V3, theres a multiplexer
2020-12-06T02:37:39 < qyx> during logging phase, SD card is connected to the STM32
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2020-12-06T02:37:47 < jadew> tried to put an ad on facebook
2020-12-06T02:37:48 < zyp> and then you have second chip for dumping, ok
2020-12-06T02:38:01 < jadew> got wrongly disabled because the ai was dumb, human put it back up
2020-12-06T02:38:15 < qyx> if I switch to data download mode, multiplexer switches to a USB hub + SD bridge, which is 3V3
2020-12-06T02:38:24 < jadew> the system was still showing it as rejected even if their tool for rejected ads was showing it as fine
2020-12-06T02:38:35 < jadew> eventually my account got disabled
2020-12-06T02:39:02 < jadew> they then proceeded to charge my account for the outstanding balance and ask me for photo id to get back in
2020-12-06T02:39:32 < zyp> is there a benefit of running the stm32 at 1.8V when you need 3.3V for the SD card anyway?
2020-12-06T02:39:45 < englishman> what is plex for really and why is it so popular
2020-12-06T02:39:46 < jadew> zyp, lower power consumption maybe?
2020-12-06T02:39:51 < englishman> I tried it twice I think
2020-12-06T02:40:01 < englishman> it was terribly slow and constantly asked for money
2020-12-06T02:41:42 < englishman> and just seemed to be a browser like windows explorer with a reencoding thing that didn't really work
2020-12-06T02:41:47 < zyp> it worked well enough that I gave them money
2020-12-06T02:42:00 < zyp> heh
2020-12-06T02:42:21 < qyx> zyp: I am planning to buffer data on qSPI NOR before dumping it to uSD every couple of hours
2020-12-06T02:42:30 < zyp> I'd describe plex as «self hosted netflix» or something
2020-12-06T02:42:34 < englishman> does it pirate movies for you or something?
2020-12-06T02:42:42 < zyp> nah
2020-12-06T02:42:47 < qyx> and yes, nearly halving the power vs going LDO from LiSOCl2
2020-12-06T02:43:06 < englishman> is Kodi similar?
2020-12-06T02:43:13 < englishman> the library parts of kodi
2020-12-06T02:43:24 < qyx> my kodi died when I tried to install dvbt
2020-12-06T02:43:53 < zyp> englishman, my use case: spin it up in a docker container running on the server under the stairs and point it at my movie/tv collection, enjoy watching anything from anywhere
2020-12-06T02:44:08 < zyp> browser/phones/chromecast
2020-12-06T02:44:23 < zyp> i.e. just with netflix except whatever content you put in it
2020-12-06T02:44:30 < zyp> s/with/like/
2020-12-06T02:44:32 < englishman> Chromecast would be a nice addition
2020-12-06T02:44:46 < englishman> files are already available via SMB share and windows explorer
2020-12-06T02:44:57 < zyp> I mean, yeah, that's the main reason I started using it
2020-12-06T02:45:12 < englishman> for how long have you used it
2020-12-06T02:45:21 < englishman> I think I tried it 4-5 years ago
2020-12-06T02:45:44 < zyp> around since my wife moved in, maybe
2020-12-06T02:46:15 < zyp> before that I just had the TV plugged into the computer as another monitor, and that worked well since it'd only be me using it anyway
2020-12-06T02:46:42 < englishman> around how long was that, 3 months or 30 years?
2020-12-06T02:47:25 < zyp> pretty much in the middle between those two points, on a log scale
2020-12-06T02:47:28 < qyx> I was about to ask if it is a generic knowledge
2020-12-06T02:48:02 < englishman> relatively recent
2020-12-06T02:48:14 < zyp> I'm just not sure number of years is relevant
2020-12-06T02:48:49 < zyp> I don't think it has changed much in core functionality
2020-12-06T02:48:50 < englishman> well it is to determine if plex has matured since I tried it
2020-12-06T02:48:53 < englishman> ah
2020-12-06T02:49:42 < zyp> I mean, like five years ago I had friends recommending it and weren't convinced, didn't seem worth the bother
2020-12-06T02:50:20 < zyp> and I don't think it has really changed since then, but the way I use the TV has
2020-12-06T02:50:45 < englishman> Chromecast has changed a lot of that
2020-12-06T02:51:23 < zyp> I mean, I bought a chromecast long before the wife moved in, but I didn't really bother using that either, was easier to just plug the TV into the computer
2020-12-06T03:13:50 < Steffanx> Plex works perfectly fine for me. Download torrent, have it automatically moved to the media storage, update plex library, download subtitles automatically, and watch it whe  you want to
2020-12-06T03:14:34 < Steffanx> And it works fine for anyone who has access to the
2020-12-06T03:14:38 < Steffanx> Server
2020-12-06T03:16:02 < zyp> using filebot or something else?
2020-12-06T03:16:20 < Steffanx> For series I use sickchill
2020-12-06T03:16:27 < Steffanx> Movies is more manually
2020-12-06T03:16:50 < Steffanx> Although sickchill is coming with something for movies
2020-12-06T03:18:53 < Steffanx> Love sickchill. Its really nothing more then "get me series x" and it does everything for me. Incl triggering plex to update its library
2020-12-06T03:19:10 < Steffanx> So the main part is handled by that tool, not plex
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2020-12-06T03:21:30 < zyp> oh, I'm not really following running series
2020-12-06T03:21:55 < mawk> series/movies are a lost of time
2020-12-06T03:22:02 < mawk> time should be spent improving the world
2020-12-06T03:22:09 < mawk> like for instance, sticking naked muhammad stickers in my town
2020-12-06T03:22:15 < zyp> the rtorrent container image I'm running came with filebot though
2020-12-06T03:22:19 < mawk> or doing https://adventofcode.com/
2020-12-06T03:22:32 < mawk> I'm just using good old transmission without anything else
2020-12-06T03:22:46 < mawk> transmission-server on my mediacenter box
2020-12-06T03:23:07 < zyp> mawk, kinda hard to fill much time with adventofcode though
2020-12-06T03:23:16 < mawk> yeah it's easy for now
2020-12-06T03:23:21 < mawk> but I heard it will get harder
2020-12-06T03:23:37 < mawk> have you done this one? https://projecteuler.net/problem=67
2020-12-06T03:23:40 < mawk> dynamic programming goodness
2020-12-06T03:24:03 < zyp> I'm wondering what sort of computer architecture they'll do in AoC this year
2020-12-06T03:24:18 < jadew> google.com has ns.google.com as DNS... so in order to find google's IP address, you need to find the IP address of ns.google.com which you find by interrogating ns.google.com.
2020-12-06T03:24:21 < zyp> the intcode stuff last year was pretty fun, esp. how you kept building on the same VM
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2020-12-06T03:24:34 < mawk> no jadew it's a glue record in the com. root dns
2020-12-06T03:24:54 < mawk> jadew: dig @a.gtld-servers.net. google.com NS
2020-12-06T03:24:57 < mawk> try this
2020-12-06T03:25:25 < jadew> mawk, it wouldn't make sense otherwise
2020-12-06T03:25:31 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-06T03:25:35 < mawk> it's always like this, with glue records
2020-12-06T03:25:38 < mawk> otherwise it would make a loop
2020-12-06T03:25:39 < zyp> mawk, did you do AoC last year?
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2020-12-06T03:25:48 < mawk> no zyp I just heard of it first time this year
2020-12-06T03:25:52 < zyp> ah
2020-12-06T03:26:07 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/sLFhD <- here's my day 15 solution from last year
2020-12-06T03:26:35 < mawk> ah yeah a real vm, nice
2020-12-06T03:27:01 < jly> what's aoc
2020-12-06T03:27:07 < mawk> https://adventofcode.com/
2020-12-06T03:27:24 < mawk> not the american bitch
2020-12-06T03:28:16 < zyp> wat, apparently I never finished AoC last year
2020-12-06T03:30:24 < jly> mawk: nice one
2020-12-06T03:30:32 < zyp> I also didn't finish 2015, but I've got full score on 16-18
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2020-12-06T04:42:28 < ds2> anyone got idea on how to open a TO8 type can w/o damaging the elements inside it?
2020-12-06T04:46:08 < jadew> with a file
2020-12-06T04:46:29 < jadew> you file off the top edge
2020-12-06T04:46:39 < Streaker> hold it upside down to reduce the amount of metal filings that land on the die.
2020-12-06T04:47:14 < jadew> we used to do that with transistors when I was a kid, to get photo diodes :D
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2020-12-06T06:04:44 < englishman> install plex, set it up
2020-12-06T06:04:49 < englishman> it sees and catalogues everything
2020-12-06T06:04:54 < englishman> click on a thing, it doesnt play
2020-12-06T06:04:56 < englishman> ???
2020-12-06T06:04:58 < aandrew> plex is awesome
2020-12-06T06:05:04 < englishman> i think this is the experience i had 5 years ago
2020-12-06T06:05:58 < aandrew> see anything in the logs?
2020-12-06T06:06:09 < englishman> yes tons and tons of shit scrolling endlessly
2020-12-06T06:06:31 < englishman> meanwhile double clicking a file in windows explorer works
2020-12-06T06:10:42 < aandrew> not sure what to tell you, I've got probably 100 movies and 1000 tv show episodes with no issues
2020-12-06T06:10:49 < englishman> gr8
2020-12-06T06:10:51 < englishman> uninstalling
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2020-12-06T08:35:37 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nA8HZUsK/theCoppersHaveFuckedIt.png
2020-12-06T08:38:49 < jly> pretty good
2020-12-06T08:45:12 < qyx> grumpyman and his experiences
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2020-12-06T09:17:41 < dongs> hmm, USB on F072 should work crystal-less right
2020-12-06T09:17:58 < dongs> for some dumb reason that project used external 16mhz xtal
2020-12-06T09:27:38 < dongs> fxied.
2020-12-06T09:27:47 < dongs> their HSI init code was fucked
2020-12-06T09:49:30 < ColdKeyboard> If I wanted to output ~1MHz squarewave using TIM module on L0. What would be the proper config of the TIM module?
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2020-12-06T09:55:26 < qyx> set it to continuous upcounting mode, set prescaler to get at least 2 MHz
2020-12-06T09:55:44 < qyx> enable one channel, configure as output compare, set its GPIO/AF config properly
2020-12-06T09:56:09 < qyx> set ARR to 1 (period is 0-1)
2020-12-06T09:56:13 < qyx> configure it as PWM1 mode
2020-12-06T09:56:22 < dongs> holy shit the CANtact app is fucking JAVA
2020-12-06T09:56:24 < dongs> 1.7
2020-12-06T09:56:29 < dongs> none of that shit works
2020-12-06T09:56:43 < qyx> and set the capture/compare register to half of the period, in this case to 0
2020-12-06T09:56:47 < dongs> i got the code running on F072-DISCO
2020-12-06T09:56:54 < dongs> and USB devices comes up and I presume CAN works
2020-12-06T09:56:57 < qyx> iirc this should work
2020-12-06T09:56:59 < dongs> but I cannot make any use of it
2020-12-06T09:57:02 < qyx> why
2020-12-06T09:57:09 < dongs> there's nothing to use it with?
2020-12-06T09:57:19 < dongs> i dont even know how i can test if it works or not
2020-12-06T09:57:33 < qyx> don§t you have anything with can?
2020-12-06T09:57:37 < dongs> yes lots of things
2020-12-06T09:58:05 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks qyx, I'll give it a go
2020-12-06T09:59:05 < qyx> so connect to anything, send something random and scope if it works
2020-12-06T10:00:23 < qyx> it needs to be connected depending on the setting (ack)
2020-12-06T10:03:06 < ColdKeyboard> Got it. I have A nucleo for L031, I'll give it a go tomorrow. It's 3AM right now, time to sign off. :)
2020-12-06T10:04:17 < qyx> that was for dongs 
2020-12-06T10:04:19 < qyx> sry
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2020-12-06T10:04:52 < dongs> "send something random" as in what? i want to send frames WITH the shit
2020-12-06T10:04:59 < dongs> which speaks this lawacel or whaever opensores protocol
2020-12-06T10:05:05 < dongs> and the only app that makes use of it is java tarsh
2020-12-06T10:05:13 < dongs> ive got a microchip canbus analyzer thing
2020-12-06T10:05:23 < dongs> and some hosts/devices as well
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2020-12-06T10:28:39 < dongs> hmm wat
2020-12-06T10:28:50 < dongs> i just connect canl to canl etc right?
2020-12-06T10:29:01 < dongs> stupid microchip shit says bus error right away
2020-12-06T10:29:32 < dongs> and can_rx can_tx don't need to cross?
2020-12-06T10:34:11 < qyx> no, rx-rx, tx-tx between MAC and the transceiver
2020-12-06T10:34:36 < qyx> didn't you forget termination resistors by any chance?
2020-12-06T10:34:51 < qyx> it will not work without them
2020-12-06T10:35:10 < qyx> connect whatever you have between CANL and CANH
2020-12-06T10:35:18 < qyx> ~100R or so
2020-12-06T10:35:35 < dongs> i have waveshare can board, it looks to have a termination R
2020-12-06T10:36:17 < qyx> so you have at least two devices on the can
2020-12-06T10:36:41 < dongs> i have the microchip shit and ih ave the opensores shit
2020-12-06T10:36:48 < dongs> microchip can transmit or listen
2020-12-06T10:37:24 < qyx> try to scope the thing
2020-12-06T10:37:38 < qyx> both CANH and CANL should rest at about 2.5 V
2020-12-06T10:39:16 < dongs> yep
2020-12-06T10:39:32 < dongs> and if i transmit something from microchip, the l/h become moving around waves of shit non-stop
2020-12-06T10:39:39 < dongs> and nothing happens in opensores serial monitor
2020-12-06T10:40:22 < qyx> thats probably because the opensores didn't ack the message so it tries to retransmit
2020-12-06T10:40:41 < qyx> bitrate is ok?
2020-12-06T10:40:46 < dongs>  do all devices need to be terminated?
2020-12-06T10:40:50 < dongs> or only one
2020-12-06T10:40:58 < dongs> microchip has an option to on/off
2020-12-06T10:41:03 < dongs> also this is over liek 10cm of wire anyway
2020-12-06T10:41:07 < qyx> two resistors on the bus
2020-12-06T10:41:14 < qyx> you need at least ~something~ for it to work
2020-12-06T10:41:24 < qyx> even 1k works with slow bitrates
2020-12-06T10:41:42 < qyx> for 10cm it doesn't matter, one is qnough
2020-12-06T10:42:05 < dongs> ok so microchip sends, and can_rx on mcu is filled with stuff
2020-12-06T10:43:28 < qyx> so the cantact is the problem
2020-12-06T10:43:34 < qyx> are bitrates the same?
2020-12-06T10:44:23 < dongs> im not sure waht opsores starts with
2020-12-06T10:44:26 < dongs> i set to 12k
2020-12-06T10:44:27 < dongs> 125k
2020-12-06T10:45:11 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/I3AA9vV.png i guess the data is correct from microchip
2020-12-06T10:45:14 < dongs> thats what im sending
2020-12-06T10:45:48 < dongs> this thing built nicely for F072Disco, it even has leds and the CAN stuff is 4 pins adjacent to each other
2020-12-06T10:45:53 < dongs> GND/PB9/PB8/VCC
2020-12-06T10:46:02 < dongs> if only i could actuall fucking make use of it
2020-12-06T10:46:05 < dongs> lets see what bitrate it starts with
2020-12-06T10:48:17 < dongs> whoa!
2020-12-06T10:48:39 < dongs> it works
2020-12-06T10:48:43 < dongs> read the sores for slcan thing
2020-12-06T10:48:46 < dongs> i had to "open" channel
2020-12-06T10:48:47 < dongs> for it to ack
2020-12-06T10:49:29 < dongs> t0FE2AAEA
2020-12-06T10:49:30 < dongs> t0FA3010203
2020-12-06T10:49:34 < dongs> getting stuff now
2020-12-06T10:50:32 < qyx> I sait check the ack :>
2020-12-06T10:50:37 < qyx> *said
2020-12-06T10:50:43 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/kotZFVg.png
2020-12-06T10:51:02 < qyx> good
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2020-12-06T10:53:05 < dongs> time to push this shit to shithub
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2020-12-06T11:12:40 < dongs> oooh
2020-12-06T11:12:43 < dongs> there's also 'busmaster'
2020-12-06T11:13:05 < dongs> christ, comes with a fucking INSTALLER
2020-12-06T11:13:06 < dongs> fuck off already
2020-12-06T11:13:16 < dongs> i knoiw its opensores shit so its gonna shit itself all over the filesystem
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2020-12-06T12:31:04 < dongs> huh. well i guess protocol for this stuff is simple enough. i can write some junk to maybe even make it work with stm32flash
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2020-12-06T12:41:37 < qyx> isn't having an installer the only right and pro thing?
2020-12-06T12:42:12 < dongs> not when all it does is shits all over the system
2020-12-06T12:46:07 < qyx> hirose
2020-12-06T12:46:08 < qyx> You may download 3D-model only for your personal, non-commercial use.
2020-12-06T12:46:18 < qyx> whats such model for then
2020-12-06T12:46:27 < qyx> to 3d print it?
2020-12-06T12:49:13 < dongs> isnt that standard disclaimer?
2020-12-06T12:57:22 < qyx> idk
2020-12-06T12:57:37 < qyx> how to do u.fl if the radio is on the bottom
2020-12-06T12:57:42 < qyx> via in the middle?
2020-12-06T12:59:32 < qyx> nice pcb https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/XNI4m1a-HkizeKF1L3rJV75Cbs9oFcpV1luFtylyyF2T4TEIPbTqJAdxpc5fu8QeH9tacNkhq4RR8bzl9W_CQRhUqhUqsA6lHisnOCBGtOxMErZiVNNd1kf8hrTtPRXRNck794eykoixczXWpNFuJuwmifPKhA
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2020-12-06T15:13:29 < jly> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyZ7nM6Fo94
2020-12-06T15:14:17 < Steffanx> Thanks jly
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2020-12-06T18:49:05 < mawk> chrome://inducebrowsercrashforrealz/
2020-12-06T18:49:07 < mawk> best site
2020-12-06T18:49:09 < mawk> go check it out
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2020-12-06T18:54:11 < karlp> qyx: pcb on google user content doesn't work?
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2020-12-06T19:06:00 < dongs> karlp: why nobody touched libopencm3 can driver for 2 years
2020-12-06T19:06:14 < dongs> more like 10 actually
2020-12-06T19:06:29 < Steffanx> Its perfect as is
2020-12-06T19:06:48 < dongs> if only
2020-12-06T19:08:26 < karlp> virtually no users
2020-12-06T19:08:37 < karlp> no common hardware available with can
2020-12-06T19:09:22 < karlp> some guys using pac55xx just added more can, and they use h7/f7 as well, I kinda thought ther emight be more can from thjem, but *shrugs*
2020-12-06T19:09:29 < karlp> I have no commentaryt on whether the api is even nice.
2020-12-06T19:09:40 < dongs> is it different from teh rest of hte lib?
2020-12-06T19:09:45 < karlp> it's also quite different style to most of the rest of the library, documented differently.
2020-12-06T19:09:46 < dongs> its jjust sitting ther eoutside of everything else
2020-12-06T19:09:54 < dongs> i guess the peripheral is same across entire family eh?
2020-12-06T19:09:58 < karlp> apparently
2020-12-06T19:10:08 < karlp> but being in that root like that means it doesn't get the same documentation treatment
2020-12-06T19:10:25 < dongs> if only libopencm3 supported using it from keil easily
2020-12-06T19:10:25 < karlp> and I've got zero can hardware, and with zero known users, it hasn't been much of a target for cleanup
2020-12-06T19:11:02 < dongs> how do you clean it up if API is shit?
2020-12-06T19:11:04 < karlp> file a bug report on what doesn't work in keil for you and I might care
2020-12-06T19:11:12 < dongs> do you make wrappers for old stuff and make new api?
2020-12-06T19:11:17 < dongs> or just replce it and fuck whatever 0 users
2020-12-06T19:11:21 < karlp> bit of both.
2020-12-06T19:11:35 < karlp> I prefer new ones, as that lets linker garbage collection do the right thing
2020-12-06T19:11:41 < karlp> but depends what's what.
2020-12-06T19:11:54 < karlp> but we get zero bug reports, and zero pulls to change anything on can
2020-12-06T19:11:58 < karlp> so it just sits there
2020-12-06T19:14:42 < dongs> at least it lookes cleaner than HAL...
2020-12-06T19:14:55 < dongs>  i posted screenshots of the hal aids in telegram, haha
2020-12-06T19:15:23 < dongs> karlp: how do i use libopencm3 if i ONLY care about STM32 parts?
2020-12-06T19:15:33 < dongs> do I just copy lib/stm32 and inc/stm32 and done?
2020-12-06T19:16:03 < dongs> oh right, you guys rewrote fucking IRQ handler names didnt you
2020-12-06T19:16:52 < karlp> yep, before my time, sorry
2020-12-06T19:17:05 < karlp> it was probably to "make sure they were nbot using anything copyrighted" or some wank
2020-12-06T19:17:28 < karlp> I don't help people with single target use.
2020-12-06T19:17:46 < karlp> apparently you can do "make TARGET=stm32/f4" or something, iirc.
2020-12-06T19:17:49 < karlp> and get just that one built
2020-12-06T19:17:59 < karlp> and then you just add the .a file and never compile it again
2020-12-06T19:18:00 < dongs> so normally you build the whole shit for like 20 mcus?
2020-12-06T19:18:09 < karlp> it's why I've never given a shit about building it for all the rest
2020-12-06T19:18:19 < karlp> sure, but it's once.
2020-12-06T19:18:56 < dongs> huh wheere is the startup assembly files?
2020-12-06T19:19:08 < karlp> why the _FUCK_ would you want startup assembly files on cortex-m
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2020-12-06T19:19:26 < karlp> banner headline feature of the architecutre and youð're like "fuck it, I want to live in the 80s"
2020-12-06T19:19:44 < dongs> so where is the startup shit then?
2020-12-06T19:19:50 < dongs> like vector table and shit
2020-12-06T19:19:58 < dongs> i see vector_chipset.c but its missing in half the targets
2020-12-06T19:20:01 < karlp> lib/cm3/vector.c
2020-12-06T19:20:14 < karlp> vector_chipset.c is for targets that need to enable fpu basically,
2020-12-06T19:20:22 < karlp> hasn't been any other use for that hook stage yet
2020-12-06T19:20:29 < dongs> um what about all the peripheral vectos tho
2020-12-06T19:20:37 < dongs> and im almost 100% sure that file is definitely not compileable wiht keil
2020-12-06T19:20:43 < dongs> cuz its all gccisms about linker scripts and shit
2020-12-06T19:21:00 < dongs> IRQ_HANDLERS
2020-12-06T19:21:22 < karlp> there's a vector_nvic.c is generated in each target's directory
2020-12-06T19:21:43 < karlp> compatibility with keil wasn't exactly a motivating factor, I believe :)
2020-12-06T19:22:19 < karlp> we've done some work to make it ~work on clang, so armcc6 should work? that's the clang one?
2020-12-06T19:22:28 < karlp> I've not tried it myself in a while
2020-12-06T19:22:33 < dongs> well with autogenerated python shit forget it
2020-12-06T19:22:39 < dongs> no keil user is gonna run python to gen stuff
2020-12-06T19:23:24 < karlp> 17:21 <karlp> compatibility with keil wasn't exactly a motivating factor, I believe :)
2020-12-06T19:23:48 < karlp> if someone wants to support braindead keil colelagues, build it once and just store it in your conan.io artifact store :)
2020-12-06T19:24:15 < karlp> it's all built once you don't need to, nore are you expected to, build it all into your project on every compile
2020-12-06T19:24:39 < karlp> that would make even _more_ of a mockery of this lgpl idea someone had.
2020-12-06T19:25:37 < dongs> found the irqs.json
2020-12-06T19:26:10 < karlp> what target are you working on that you need to look at it?
2020-12-06T19:26:23 < dongs> i mean i was just tracking down how shit is built
2020-12-06T19:26:25 < karlp> it just gets turned into that nvic_vector.c
2020-12-06T19:26:27 < karlp> ahh.
2020-12-06T19:26:28 < dongs> yes right
2020-12-06T19:26:50 < dongs> for it to work in keil i guess one would have to run the generation once then add the target-specific shit and try to build an .a
2020-12-06T19:26:51 < karlp> here, just for you, someone trying to use it in keil, in 2016: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/714
2020-12-06T19:27:14 < karlp> if you've got non gross things that would make it easier for you, I'm happy to add them
2020-12-06T19:27:40 < karlp> but the last person who tried this sort of thing wanted to sprinkle #ifdefs into like 50 files, with piles of ifs on different st platform names
2020-12-06T19:27:42 < dongs> why didnt you merge that shit, those are legit fixes
2020-12-06T19:27:45 < karlp> so that got tossed
2020-12-06T19:28:24 < srk> bxcan is shared for all devs. except for F7 which has one CAN with larger buffers iirc
2020-12-06T19:28:29 < karlp> because it's not complete probably,
2020-12-06T19:28:50 < karlp> and it still somehow hasn't turned up as an issue with latest compiler warnings on gcc either?
2020-12-06T19:29:15 < dongs> yeah but gcc is shit :p
2020-12-06T19:29:22 < karlp> like, if you want 1<31 to be ul, you need to go and make that everywhere, not just on 3 definitions that one guy was using
2020-12-06T19:29:25 < srk> just switch to llvm!
2020-12-06T19:29:26 < karlp> that's unmaintainable
2020-12-06T19:29:36 < dongs> ah true, i was wondering why he did it only on some
2020-12-06T19:29:40 < dongs> but that looked wrong anyway
2020-12-06T19:29:43 < dongs> i never had problems with such shit in keil
2020-12-06T19:29:51 < dongs> the other variable/whatever should have been fixed
2020-12-06T19:29:54 < dongs> instead of changing 1<< dongs
2020-12-06T19:30:17 < karlp> well, when people make mixed half arsed prs, I tend to not make them a priority
2020-12-06T19:30:59 < dongs> hmm do *ALL* of F0s have same IRQ vector??
2020-12-06T19:31:19 < karlp> probably not in reality, but we do, it's probably wasting some ram space
2020-12-06T19:31:35 < karlp> we've worked with having a union/overlapping set of them all.
2020-12-06T19:31:40 < karlp> we've not noticed any actual conflicts
2020-12-06T19:31:56 < karlp> but we are providing bigger vector tables on devices that might not have all of them
2020-12-06T19:31:59 < srk> it doesn't work if you try to cover all
2020-12-06T19:32:13 < karlp> srk: it has so far, so file a bug if you've got a concrete example
2020-12-06T19:32:30 < karlp> so yeah, we're wasting ram, oh noes.
2020-12-06T19:33:04 < dongs> ah i see, ST startup files just add 0 for the missing vectors on that platform
2020-12-06T19:33:28 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/wAtmgxy.png
2020-12-06T19:33:35 < dongs> F030 vs F058
2020-12-06T19:33:48 < dongs> the order is same
2020-12-06T19:33:56 < karlp> yup
2020-12-06T19:34:00 < karlp> _so far_ at least :)
2020-12-06T19:34:51 < srk> karlp: I've tried to do that (common vector tables for families) but there are exceptions as usual so I ended up with separate for each STM32XYZ
2020-12-06T19:34:54 < karlp> wrost st fuck up so far within families is f303xe/g(the big ones) having a st-usb-fsv2, and all the smaller f303s having st-usbfs-v1
2020-12-06T19:35:11 < karlp> srk: like I said, file a bug if you have a concrete example, otehrwise I couldn't care less.
2020-12-06T19:35:13 < dongs> is that the USB peripheral thing?
2020-12-06T19:35:26 < srk> karlp: just saying, I'm not using cm3 :)
2020-12-06T19:35:28 < karlp> yar different arrange ment of packet memory
2020-12-06T19:35:29 < dongs> v1 is one that needs external 1.5K R pullup and V2 is not?
2020-12-06T19:35:39 < mawk> why does nrf has so many standard libraries; there's nrf connect api, nrf sdk, then inside the nrf sdk there is nrfx api, nrf_drv api; and above that there is a legacy HAL api, a low level API, a HAL api
2020-12-06T19:35:43 < dongs> or wait, thats FS vs OTG i think
2020-12-06T19:35:43 < mawk> and no document to tell you which to choose
2020-12-06T19:35:58 < Steffanx> dont you love it mawk? i know you do
2020-12-06T19:36:02 < mawk> yes I do
2020-12-06T19:36:02 < karlp> that's ~mostly fs vs otg, but some of the st parts also provide a pullup in an "extra" periph
2020-12-06T19:36:05 < mawk> it's beautiful
2020-12-06T19:36:09 < karlp> like L1 has a pullup in syscfg
2020-12-06T19:36:16 < karlp> and I think f0/l0 have something too,
2020-12-06T19:36:16 < dongs> mawk: i was wondering that myself. i tried using nrfx but then literally nobody uses it
2020-12-06T19:36:27 < dongs> and then they have some legacy nrfx wrappers for some other nrfx thats no longer used
2020-12-06T19:36:31 < dongs> a complete clustercuck
2020-12-06T19:36:31 < karlp> no, the stusbfs versions ar ealignment and arrangement of packet memory
2020-12-06T19:37:51 < fenugrec> wow the situation must be pretty dire for dong to consider a an OSS (grOSS ?)  can library
2020-12-06T19:38:01 < karlp> full clean build of lcom3 is ~17secs here, and within a project it's just relink, so yar
2020-12-06T19:38:18 < karlp> fenugrec: open sores are great for validating things, then you "go pro"  or something
2020-12-06T19:38:32 < karlp> dongs is pro though, knwos when to use the right tools :)
2020-12-06T19:38:59 < dongs> fenugrec: lol i was just looking. can peripheral looks simple enough to not even need a wrapper/hal/whatever
2020-12-06T19:39:09 < dongs> its not like its some insane shit like USB.
2020-12-06T19:39:17 < qyx> karlp: works here without being logged in
2020-12-06T19:39:26 < qyx> idk, it is a random picture from google
2020-12-06T19:39:31 < dongs> doesnt wrok for me
2020-12-06T19:39:36 < dongs> did you fuck the link?
2020-12-06T19:39:51 < qyx> clicked now
2020-12-06T19:39:53 < qyx> lol
2020-12-06T19:40:00 < qyx> it doesn't work if I am logged in
2020-12-06T19:40:27 < dongs> doesnt work for me, but im connectin via ipv6
2020-12-06T19:40:27 < qyx> now it doesn't work whatever I do
2020-12-06T19:40:29 < dongs> not sure if that matter
2020-12-06T19:40:58 < karlp> yeah, the can periph looks ~simple, the amoutn of defiines it seemed to need is pretty far out though
2020-12-06T19:41:22 < dongs> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cm3/vector.c#L84 this is all gccism
2020-12-06T19:41:30 < dongs> no hope of any of that shit working on keil
2020-12-06T19:41:45 < karlp> in related news, tomorrow I'll go to the office and put nice western epson crystals on this hub board, and I expect it to work finally :)
2020-12-06T19:41:51 < karlp> dongs: they're just sybols
2020-12-06T19:41:58 < karlp> you get them from yoru "scatter map" if you prefer
2020-12-06T19:41:59 < dongs> yes, gcc symbols
2020-12-06T19:42:08 < karlp> no, defined by locm3 in locm3's linker scripts
2020-12-06T19:42:16 < dongs> you dont even need to care about any of this on keil tho
2020-12-06T19:42:24 < dongs> there's a __main or wahtever that runs before your main()
2020-12-06T19:42:27 < dongs> that does ctor and other stuff
2020-12-06T19:42:28 < mawk> I love the builtin CLI in the nrf uart lib though, very cool
2020-12-06T19:42:36 < mawk> I'm pretty sure keil has constructors too dongs 
2020-12-06T19:42:38 < mawk> just need to adapt it right?
2020-12-06T19:42:47 < dongs> i dont need to adapt it, they just work
2020-12-06T19:42:49 < karlp> it's doign the same thing dongs, just has a different name :)
2020-12-06T19:42:57 < karlp> you don't need to adapt these either, they "just work"
2020-12-06T19:43:03 < karlp> and have done for.... nearly a decade?
2020-12-06T19:43:06 < mawk> well keil supports C++ right? it has to support constructors
2020-12-06T19:43:07 < dongs>                  LDR     R0, =__main
2020-12-06T19:43:12 < mawk> it's not much a gccism
2020-12-06T19:43:25 < dongs> __main = in keil libc and i dont know/care what it does
2020-12-06T19:43:45 < karlp> right, why ar eyou looking at the __main implementation of locm3 then?
2020-12-06T19:43:49 < karlp> it does the "same thing"
2020-12-06T19:44:12 < dongs> vector.c is not __main
2020-12-06T19:44:32 < karlp> what's different?
2020-12-06T19:44:58 < dongs> the part that if I use keil, i have reset_handler in ASM
2020-12-06T19:45:14 < karlp> and if you use locm3 you have reset handler in c, and you don't need to look at it.
2020-12-06T19:45:15 < dongs> which calls SystemInit (clocks etc) and __main (init C++ trash and so on)
2020-12-06T19:45:25 < karlp> and you set your clocks in your own main()
2020-12-06T19:45:37 < karlp> resethjandler in locm3 runs on default reset clock
2020-12-06T19:45:44 < dongs> but if keil __main is never called its not gonna init any ctors and shit
2020-12-06T19:46:05 < dongs> and calling __main from main() literally is probably gonna fail
2020-12-06T19:46:05 < karlp> if you don't have any constructors, you get an empty loop
2020-12-06T19:46:34 < karlp> run it by me again, in keil, you manually edit your reset asm file to select your clocks, and make sure it has a call to __main
2020-12-06T19:46:41 < karlp> and then keil's __main calls your main()?
2020-12-06T19:46:58 < karlp> and in locm3, you just write main() and select clocks there
2020-12-06T19:46:59 < dongs> ignore the clocks part, it doesnt *need* to happen but, keil's Reset_Handler is literally:
2020-12-06T19:47:05 < dongs> import __main
2020-12-06T19:47:14 < dongs> jump systeminit (optional)
2020-12-06T19:47:18 < dongs> jump __main
2020-12-06T19:47:37 < dongs> and yes, __main() from keil libc will call my main() once it finishes all the housekeeping of libc startup
2020-12-06T19:47:42 < karlp> and what do you think will be inside __main? (it will be the same as in lcom3's reset handler)
2020-12-06T19:47:50 < dongs> more or less same i guess yes
2020-12-06T19:47:57 < karlp> so? 
2020-12-06T19:48:04 < karlp> not seeing a problem here :)
2020-12-06T19:48:20 < dongs> the problem is, if I don't call __main, shit like printf or any libc stuff probably wont work
2020-12-06T19:48:49  * karlp shrugs
2020-12-06T19:49:10 < karlp> I don't know what you're trying to mix and match where here yet, and it all soudns like conjnecture :)
2020-12-06T19:49:52 < karlp> if you have something straightforward that would make things play well together, I've got no problem adding it, but I'm not going to bend over much
2020-12-06T19:50:27 < dongs> nah im just trying to understand how the shit works
2020-12-06T19:50:36 < dongs> vector.c is the startup, right?
2020-12-06T19:50:51 < karlp> yeah, reset_handler is reset_handler
2020-12-06T19:51:03 < dongs> __attribute__ ((section(".vectors"))) this puts it at beginning of flash for linker script?
2020-12-06T19:51:17 < karlp> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cm3/vector.c#L42 
2020-12-06T19:51:19 < karlp> yeah
2020-12-06T19:51:41 < dongs> oh so theoretically i could call __main() from there i guess
2020-12-06T19:51:47 < karlp> wel, that puts it in the vectors section, and https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/master/lib/cortex-m-generic.ld#L46 puts it at the start
2020-12-06T19:51:51 < dongs> just same way (void)main(); is done
2020-12-06T19:52:32 < dongs> keil syntax for memory pinning is different
2020-12-06T19:52:36 < karlp> sure, whatever you like really.
2020-12-06T19:52:48 < dongs> like way different and less insane than gcc :p
2020-12-06T19:52:50 < karlp> yeah, that tends to be something that needs to be agreed upon with the compiler/linker world
2020-12-06T19:53:06 < dongs> actaully idk what armcc6 does
2020-12-06T19:53:11 < karlp> "scatter files" look pretty much equivalent to linker script files honestly, jsut different syntax
2020-12-06T19:53:14 < dongs> i guess they backported the v5 scatter/gather stuff same way
2020-12-06T19:53:24 < dongs> yeah but keil autogenerates those for 99% of cases and you dont need to care
2020-12-06T19:53:25 < karlp> and the annotations on the .c files look ~equiv, just different syntax too
2020-12-06T19:53:38 < karlp> yeah, and for a normal locm3 app developer, they do _nothign_
2020-12-06T19:53:47 < karlp> no annotations, no linker script authoring
2020-12-06T19:54:15 < karlp> irqs are "just" regular functions, with the right name,
2020-12-06T19:54:18 < karlp> main is just main.
2020-12-06T19:54:32 < karlp> until you want to put things in special regions, there's nothing to do.
2020-12-06T19:57:11 < dongs> * You may need to fix this if you're using C++.
2020-12-06T19:57:19 < dongs> i have a PR for this line
2020-12-06T19:57:24 < dongs> * You may need to fix your head if you're using C++.
2020-12-06T19:58:34 < karlp> hasna't been any complaints since that was written either honestly, but *shrugs* no idea how many c++ people use locm3,
2020-12-06T19:58:51 < karlp> I expect they mostly go "oh noes, no where near enough templates, I can't use this legacy garbage"
2020-12-06T19:59:06 < karlp> it's all so _procedural_ how quaint...
2020-12-06T19:59:24 < dongs> fuck.
2020-12-06T19:59:29 < dongs> i cant turn off my office aircon
2020-12-06T19:59:35 < dongs> because Broadlink servers are down (?)
2020-12-06T20:00:18 < karlp> the wrong tacos: https://twitter.com/partyandri/status/1335606751253716993
2020-12-06T20:01:38 < karlp> https://github.com/johnmehr/gitup < intended for non-developers, has no actual usage instructions...
2020-12-06T20:02:07 < dongs> what does that actually do...
2020-12-06T20:02:58 < karlp> it's git. 
2020-12-06T20:03:02 < karlp> only not all of it
2020-12-06T20:03:10 < karlp> and will explicitly break on repos that you used git on
2020-12-06T20:03:20 < karlp> apparenrtlyt it's "less dependencies" to install than git
2020-12-06T20:03:24 < karlp> I have no fucking idea what the point is
2020-12-06T20:03:58 < dongs> well to be honest git *is* fucking huge.
2020-12-06T20:04:13 < dongs> its like 50megs now to pull git binary package.
2020-12-06T20:04:17 < dongs> so double that unpacked
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2020-12-06T20:05:05 < mawk> git is 36MiB unpacked on my system
2020-12-06T20:05:08 < mawk> the package
2020-12-06T20:05:38 < karlp> I would hazard that if you need to get something that is only available in a git repo, from a place where the overhead of installing git is an issue, you already have problems you should be addressing.
2020-12-06T20:06:59 < dongs> so he implements http ? or whatever protocol for git to pull stuff remotely?
2020-12-06T20:09:03 < dongs> oh, uses openssl and zlib
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2020-12-06T20:45:15 < zyp> karlp, I got an idea to deal with -Wvolatile: https://godbolt.org/z/ns7dhG
2020-12-06T20:46:27 < zyp> how much do you hate it? :)
2020-12-06T20:47:05 < emeb> pro tip - forget to set up linker RAM sections needed for DMA buffers and the linker will default to DTCM. DMA doesn't like that.
2020-12-06T20:47:31 < emeb> nice how the linker doesn't throw a warning if you specify a section that doesn't exist
2020-12-06T20:52:24 < zyp> karlp, I don't think the idea is entirely awful; there's no runtime cost, mmio<> vs volatile doesn't increase source verbosity, and it can also provide additional useful helper methods like combined set/clear and masked write
2020-12-06T20:54:21 < zyp> it'd also implement implicit casting both ways to the base type, of course
2020-12-06T20:55:37 < zyp> so the main obvious downside seem to be when you're poking around in the debugger
2020-12-06T20:56:18 < zyp> I don't think gdb would let me poke directly at BAR.CR1 but would have me access BAR.CR1.reg instead
2020-12-06T20:58:15 < aandrew> there we go, got the blinking lights out of my wife's beaver 
2020-12-06T20:58:24 < aandrew> she got this outdoor beaver decoration but they had several blinking LEDs in it and I hate blinking LEDs
2020-12-06T20:58:29 < aandrew> so I bought a bunch of warm white LEDs for like $3 and swapped out the blinking ones. Much better
2020-12-06T20:59:39 < zyp> my wife usually covers up her beaver when she goes outdoors
2020-12-06T21:12:17 < Steffanx> lolol zyp
2020-12-06T21:12:56 < Steffanx> not sure about the "usually" though :P
2020-12-06T21:14:25 < zyp> ok
2020-12-06T21:16:05 < Steffanx> lol again
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2020-12-06T22:22:14 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/1axh5q hmm
2020-12-06T22:24:32 < zyp> that's almost a workable way of accessing individual fields by name
2020-12-06T22:26:08 < zyp> I don't like the set_enable() pattern, but being able to add stuff to individual registers like that could be useful
2020-12-06T22:30:25 < aandrew> I feel I need a bit of contex
2020-12-06T22:30:27 < aandrew> context
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2020-12-06T22:31:23 < aandrew> foo.CR1 |= 1 << 3  reading a dword ptr oring 8 and putting it back is expected, isn't it?
2020-12-06T22:33:17 < aandrew> not a fan of the C++ but I guess you're trying to do volatile struct foo_periph *foo = 0x12345678 and foo->CR1 |= 1<<3?
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2020-12-06T22:37:29 < zyp> aandrew, the point is that C++20 deprecates using operator |= on a volatile variable
2020-12-06T22:38:03 < aandrew> really, why would they do that
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2020-12-06T22:38:27 < zyp> because it's not atomic
2020-12-06T22:38:54 < karlp> zyp: lol
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2020-12-06T22:38:59 < karlp> c++ c++ing.
2020-12-06T22:39:02 < zyp> aandrew, see http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p1152r4.html
2020-12-06T22:39:17 < aandrew> volatile doesn't demand atomicity
2020-12-06T22:39:20 < aandrew> just no caching
2020-12-06T22:39:29 < aandrew> karlp nailed it
2020-12-06T22:39:35 < karlp> the tl;dr is "people think volatile means atomic, so we're going to break volatile so people stop using it as atomic"
2020-12-06T22:39:38 < karlp> right?
2020-12-06T22:39:44 < zyp> something like that, yes
2020-12-06T22:40:17 < karlp> yeh, c++11 and c++17 had been starting to look like, "i should maybe try..." and then the c++ness always comes up and I'm lik,e gtfo you nutcases.
2020-12-06T22:40:50 < zyp> haha
2020-12-06T22:41:10 < Steffanx> Makes me wonder if this means many people will simply not move on to C++20
2020-12-06T22:41:24 < karlp> as c++ solutions go, I think you've done a pretty nice solution, but....
2020-12-06T22:41:30 < zyp> personally my goal is making the user code simpler and tidier
2020-12-06T22:41:46 < zyp> and I welcome features that'll let me do that
2020-12-06T22:43:13 < aandrew> yeah C++ looks to be suffering from "we gotta change SOMETHING this year"-itis
2020-12-06T22:44:03 < zyp> for me the big thing in C++20 is coroutines, it's gonna make working with async shit so much more convenient
2020-12-06T22:45:15 < aandrew> I dunno
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2020-12-06T22:45:53 < aandrew> I like straight C, for a given compiler/arch it's predictable. porting can bring in weirdness if you're relying on UB to behave a certain way of course
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2020-12-06T22:49:54 < dima> guys, could you give me some advice? What's the best way to power STM32 from a li-ion battery? Should I use buck-boost, or boost + LDO, or something else?
2020-12-06T22:50:24 < dima> are there any ready-made modules for that on ebay/aliexpress?
2020-12-06T22:50:56 < aandrew> dima: depends on a few factors
2020-12-06T22:51:02 < dima> ideally combined with charge/discharge protection
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2020-12-06T22:51:41 < aandrew> simplest is simply a buck but if you want to extract the most energy out of the battery (and know where your battery's end of life voltage is) a buck/boost will get you a little more
2020-12-06T22:53:12 < aandrew> for the 90% of applications though an efficient buck will get you down to 3.4-3.2V. lipoly tends to not want to be discharged below 3.4V if you want any kind of life out of it
2020-12-06T22:53:20 < PaulFertser> Or you can have a buck always producing something like 3.0 V instead of 3.3 V.
2020-12-06T22:53:42 < aandrew> depends on where you need your I/O to be. Just run it all at 1.8V :-)
2020-12-06T22:54:25 < aandrew> I'm not even sure if STM32s can work with a 1.8V supply. I know they have an internal 1.2V for VCore but you can disable that and supply it yourself too
2020-12-06T22:54:34 < dima> I'll need to power an LCD from the same battery, I don't think it would work on 1.8V
2020-12-06T22:54:44 < PaulFertser> But you'll need a buck either way because LiIon charges to 4.2 V and you shouldn't power stm32 directly from that.
2020-12-06T22:55:27 < aandrew> yep
2020-12-06T22:57:37 < PaulFertser> Probably if you want to be using ADC for very precise measurements you'll want an LDO at least for AVCC.
2020-12-06T22:58:25 < aandrew> yes - if I want good ADC performance it's gotta be a separate quiet supply, usually with a nice high PSRR LDO
2020-12-06T23:00:30 < kakium69> did you guise watch the starlink client device teardown yet?
2020-12-06T23:00:32 < dima> I looked at a few buck modules on aliexpress, they need input voltage to be at least 5V to produce 3.3V output
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2020-12-06T23:01:28 < kakium69> it looks pretty much like something you would have inside of front dome of an airliner
2020-12-06T23:02:04 < qyx> your are searching in a china domain
2020-12-06T23:02:04 < kakium69> array antenna
2020-12-06T23:02:56 < dima> I don't need ADC for this project, just want it to last as long as possible in the deep sleep mode
2020-12-06T23:04:03 < qyx> so aliexpress buck is not an option them
2020-12-06T23:04:12 < qyx> with few mA of Iq
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2020-12-06T23:04:41 < jly> HWAT
2020-12-06T23:04:42 < qyx> with such buck you may run it fullspeed as well
2020-12-06T23:05:42 < karlp> dongs:qyx et al, is there a reasonably available stm32 can board I should buy for testing?
2020-12-06T23:06:33 < Steffanx> Waveshare board with can module?
2020-12-06T23:06:43 < karlp> that sounds huge and gross
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2020-12-06T23:09:30 < dima> qyx: I don't mind building my own, it'll be a good learning exercise. Is there any chip you can recommend?
2020-12-06T23:09:33 < Steffanx> So get a nucleo-very small, buy a CAN tranceiver in dip and get your soldering iron.
2020-12-06T23:09:34 < zyp> dima, if it's gonna spend most of the time in deep sleep, you might as well just go with a LDO
2020-12-06T23:09:54 < jly> CAN or CAN'T 
2020-12-06T23:09:55 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nA8HZUsK/theCoppersHaveFuckedIt.png
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2020-12-06T23:11:39 < zyp> dima, bucks are more efficient when you're drawing significant power, but if you're not gonna do a lot of that, a low Iq LDO would be your best bet
2020-12-06T23:11:39 < dima> zyp: LDO straight from a lithium battery to 3.0V? or do I need a boost converter before that?
2020-12-06T23:11:47 < zyp> just LDO
2020-12-06T23:11:55 < dima> ok, thanks
2020-12-06T23:13:24 < zyp> I mean, a LDO would pretty much be 71% efficient whatever the load you put on it, and a buck is probably gonna be less efficient than that during deep sleep
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2020-12-06T23:14:04 < dima> 70% is ok, a low Iq is more important I think
2020-12-06T23:14:15 < qyx> or TPS62825 if you feel adventurous enough
2020-12-06T23:14:27 < qyx> it draws only 4 uA
2020-12-06T23:14:48 < zyp> how much is typical deep sleep though?
2020-12-06T23:15:23 < zyp> IIRC vbat current on a stm32f4 is around 1 uA
2020-12-06T23:15:39 < dima> I'm using F411
2020-12-06T23:15:45 < dima> the blackpill module
2020-12-06T23:15:59 < qyx> TPS62740 then zyp :>
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2020-12-06T23:16:31 < qyx> I don't have a clear preference, usually 4 uA is ok for me
2020-12-06T23:16:46 < qyx> 62740 draws 350 nA but is able to supply only 30 mA
2020-12-06T23:16:48 < qyx> *300
2020-12-06T23:17:21 < qyx> but yeah, you are ok with a low Iq LDO then
2020-12-06T23:17:38 < karlp> is there some cheap generic can transceiver I should search for parts for on cheapp china baords?
2020-12-06T23:17:47 < karlp> or, ideally, something _usful_ on can?
2020-12-06T23:18:45 < zyp> what are you really asking?
2020-12-06T23:19:19 < zyp> IME lots of can transceivers requires 5V, get one that can do 3.3V if you don't wanna deal with that
2020-12-06T23:19:29 < qyx> dima: for easy soldering TPS70630 is okish, SOT-23-5
2020-12-06T23:20:02 < zyp> karlp, I believe sn65hvd232 is the one I've used
2020-12-06T23:20:04 < dima> Thanks guys, that's quite helpful.
2020-12-06T23:20:40 < qyx> karlp: I don't know any CAN devboard, maybe theres a CAN transceiver for nucleos
2020-12-06T23:21:00 < qyx> I am using MCP2562 as a cheap and generic can transceiver
2020-12-06T23:21:07 < qyx> it can handle >50 V of MC voltage
2020-12-06T23:21:08 < qyx> *CM
2020-12-06T23:21:39 < zyp> qyx, operating voltage 4.5-5.5
2020-12-06T23:23:49 < qyx> yes, did karlp wrote he is seeking 3V3 only?
2020-12-06T23:24:19 < qyx> idk
2020-12-06T23:25:06 < zyp> no, just stating that's a common issue :)
2020-12-06T23:25:35 < qyx> but hey, it is dual sipply
2020-12-06T23:25:40 < qyx> it has Vddio
2020-12-06T23:25:50 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/hqa7nK <- damn, this is almost nice, just annoying having to wrap shit in decltype()
2020-12-06T23:28:19 < zyp> it'd be easy to expand this into a variadic function that takes multiple fields, squashes them to a single value/mask and does a single rmw
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2020-12-06T23:38:27 < fenugrec> karlp, if you just need a single stm32-based USB-CAN board I have some spares
2020-12-06T23:40:49 < fenugrec> f042 + si8621 isolation + tja1042
2020-12-06T23:41:33 < karlp> kinda need two eventually, ideally one "commercial" for interop and one cheap, compact, not crazy for running locm3 on.
2020-12-06T23:41:41 < karlp> on PRs from dongs yet though, so pretty low prrioity
2020-12-06T23:42:49 < mawk> can I use a nucleo as a 3.3V uart adapter?
2020-12-06T23:43:13 < mawk> if I remove power from the stm32 and just use the tx/rx pins of the stlink header
2020-12-06T23:43:23 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873211521.html looks feasible
2020-12-06T23:43:27 < mawk> probably yes since the pins are named TX/RX
2020-12-06T23:43:36 < karlp> some nucleos you need to move solder jumpers
2020-12-06T23:43:56 < mawk> ah I'll look at the schematic then
2020-12-06T23:44:02 < fenugrec> https://shop.copperforge.cc/products/ac41 hm outofstock. Else there's canable https://store.protofusion.org/product/canable/
2020-12-06T23:44:54 < mawk> CANabis would be a great name
2020-12-06T23:45:17 < karlp> fenugrec: that ali link is a canable board
2020-12-06T23:45:19 < fenugrec> or CANtagious
2020-12-06T23:46:50 < fenugrec> there's still a few 'CAN' puns left, surprisingly
2020-12-06T23:47:46 < mawk> CANidae
2020-12-06T23:50:09 < aandrew> you could swap out the buck for LDO and back when moving between states but now you're starting to get down into woo-woo fringe shit 
2020-12-06T23:50:12 < aandrew> get it working, then get it good
2020-12-06T23:50:19 < mawk> yeah probably you can't get rid of decltype there zyp 
2020-12-06T23:50:22 < mawk> it's a parser ambiguity
2020-12-06T23:50:28 < mawk> you can macro is though
2020-12-06T23:51:07 < mawk> but even more ugly by some standard
2020-12-06T23:53:11 < Steffanx> Why C++ still does marcos?
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2020-12-06T23:53:55 < mawk> because they can do things C++ can't
2020-12-06T23:53:59 < zyp> mawk, I think I found a workaround I'm happy with
2020-12-06T23:54:07 < mawk> how did you do it?
2020-12-06T23:54:30 < ColdKeyboard> In the L0 series, for TIM1/2/3, what is the ITR0/1/2/3 ?
2020-12-06T23:54:55 < zyp> mawk, https://godbolt.org/z/1dYec5
2020-12-06T23:55:01 < fenugrec> internal trigger ?
2020-12-06T23:55:19 < fenugrec> should be in the RM
2020-12-06T23:55:27 < ColdKeyboard> Basically I wan the timer to run at SysCLK speed and use the prescaler to output ~1MHz on the output channel
2020-12-06T23:56:32 < zyp> mawk, not very useful for a single field, but probably pretty useful once you start doing a bunch of fields at oce
2020-12-06T23:56:54 < zyp> also takes care of repetitive namespace shit
2020-12-06T23:57:33 < zyp> I'm mocking up some code to squash the fields together now
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--- Day changed Mon Dec 07 2020
2020-12-07T00:01:44 < mawk> ah yes with a using also
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2020-12-07T00:06:18 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-12-07T00:10:16 < jly> bangits
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2020-12-07T00:37:54 < zyp> mawk, https://godbolt.org/z/8oM3es
2020-12-07T00:38:14 < fenugrec> newark : invoice for 78$ . order status says " Order value : 6614.60$ ". Sounds about right
2020-12-07T00:38:32 < zyp> with the implicit cast to val_mask, the write_field methods are redundant though
2020-12-07T00:38:56 < mawk> ah yes very cool indeed
2020-12-07T00:39:16 < mawk> you could get rid of the { } by using a varidiac template and make the std::initializer_list inside it; but that's just sugar
2020-12-07T00:39:47 < zyp> ah, thanks
2020-12-07T00:40:04 < zyp> I dicked around with variadic templates a bit, but I was overthinking it :)
2020-12-07T00:40:31 < mawk> yeah C++17 makes it a bit ugly to do cool stuff with variadic templates, but I think it's a bit better in C++20
2020-12-07T00:41:42 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/qxbnYb perfect
2020-12-07T00:42:45 < mawk> yes like that, nice
2020-12-07T00:43:38 < zyp> although I was wondering if I can just feed the initializer list to operator=
2020-12-07T00:44:57 < mawk> yes probably
2020-12-07T00:47:39 < zyp> hmm, can operator= be inherited?
2020-12-07T00:48:22 < mawk> I think yes
2020-12-07T00:48:26 < jadew> zyp, I think you can do use operator=
2020-12-07T00:48:33 < mawk> but you have to recall the one from the parent in the child class zyp 
2020-12-07T00:48:37 < mawk> using BaseClass::operator=;
2020-12-07T00:48:38 < jadew> user base::opeartor=
2020-12-07T00:48:39 < mawk> something like this
2020-12-07T00:48:51 < jadew> right, using
2020-12-07T00:49:00 < zyp> meh, that's too much boilerplate
2020-12-07T00:49:11 < mawk> you can do a #define BOILERPLATE ... for all that stuff
2020-12-07T00:49:14 < mawk> but yeah it's a bit much
2020-12-07T00:49:18 < zyp> no thanks
2020-12-07T00:49:31 < zyp> I wanna do this without macros
2020-12-07T00:51:12 < zyp> anyway, I figure other operators can be inherited, so which one would make sense as a generic «modify»-operator?
2020-12-07T00:51:46 < mawk> you tried it with other operators?
2020-12-07T00:51:55 < zyp> since it's taking value/mask, it's effectively a combination of | and &
2020-12-07T00:52:12 < mawk> the <=> operator, coolest looking
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2020-12-07T00:52:54 < zyp> maybe I should do the stream operators, << and >>
2020-12-07T00:53:01 < mawk> ah
2020-12-07T00:53:06 < mawk> yeah but they have a bit weird priority
2020-12-07T00:53:14 < mawk> but probably that's fine
2020-12-07T00:53:29 < mawk> it's jsut that when you do a << b + c, then you want to parenthesize the (b+c)
2020-12-07T00:53:39 < mawk> but you'll do something like a << field(b) here so it's fine 
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2020-12-07T00:55:55 < zyp> huh, not working
2020-12-07T00:56:08 < zyp> but it is working with e.g. &=
2020-12-07T00:56:25 < mawk> not working how?
2020-12-07T00:56:27 < zyp> it's also working with <<=
2020-12-07T00:56:59 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/enxGx9 <- change <<= to << and see for yourself
2020-12-07T00:58:28 < zyp> I guess it's only interpreted as an initializer list for assignment type operators
2020-12-07T00:59:03 < mawk> the return type needs to be different I guess
2020-12-07T00:59:11 < mawk> you want to return a T&
2020-12-07T00:59:18 < mawk> hm
2020-12-07T00:59:33 < mawk> or maybe not, why are you returning T ? usually you return *this in operators
2020-12-07T01:00:14 < zyp> just because I started out with operator|=(T)
2020-12-07T01:00:14 < mawk> ah yes the initializer_list isn't interpreted properly in this case
2020-12-07T01:01:07 < zyp> yes
2020-12-07T01:01:12 < mawk> yes but still, you return *this, like when you do (a += b) the value of a is returned
2020-12-07T01:01:17 < zyp> it works if I name thetype, but fuck that
2020-12-07T01:01:18 < mawk> but it's not really important and not the problem here
2020-12-07T01:01:40 < zyp> that's by design
2020-12-07T01:01:51 < zyp> I'm returning T since I'm wrapping T
2020-12-07T01:04:22 < zyp> foo(BAR.CR2 |= 1) should result in exactly one read and one write access to the underlying register, so I can't do a RMW first, return a reference to the wrapper and then have the casting operator do another read to cast to the argument to foo()
2020-12-07T01:05:03 < zyp> and I can't cache the value in the object either since it's overlaying the memory location of the wrapped register
2020-12-07T01:05:35 < zyp> i.e. all overloaded operators with integer inputs also have to return integers
2020-12-07T01:06:10 < mawk> yeah using the initializer_list explicitly works, but that's ugly
2020-12-07T01:06:20 < zyp> yes, I don't wanna do that
2020-12-07T01:06:38 < mawk> <<= is fine
2020-12-07T01:07:02 < zyp> hmm
2020-12-07T01:07:17 < zyp> >> is not gonna work out anyway
2020-12-07T01:08:09 < zyp> the initializer list relies on implicitly casting field<> to val_mask, that's not gonna work for writing
2020-12-07T01:08:55 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-07T01:09:05 < zyp> I think |= or &= is preferable, since those are the underlying operators
2020-12-07T01:09:14 < zyp> maybe ^= since that can both set and reset
2020-12-07T01:09:42 < zyp> except that's not gonna make sense, that'd work better as a toggle func
2020-12-07T01:10:12 < mawk> ".set" is not much bigger than " <<= "
2020-12-07T01:10:19 < zyp> true
2020-12-07T01:11:04 < zyp> and that'd also be consistent with a variadic .get
2020-12-07T01:14:10 < zyp> hrm
2020-12-07T01:14:47 < zyp> bummer, operator=(T) would have the same issue
2020-12-07T01:15:12 < zyp> i.e. the integer assignment
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2020-12-07T01:42:51 < emeb> Latest foolishness - STM32H730 board, includes audio codec, PSRAM, EEPROM, SD card, etc. -> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ix195jlrtlhe3o5/20201206_160227.jpg?dl=0
2020-12-07T01:45:58 < zyp> mawk, when I put more than three fields in the initializer list, gcc gives up trying to fold it
2020-12-07T01:46:45 < zyp> emeb, looks fun
2020-12-07T01:46:56 < zyp> still doing micro usb?
2020-12-07T01:47:05 < emeb> zyp: lol yes. old man.
2020-12-07T01:47:20 < emeb> just because I've got a bunch of them in stock
2020-12-07T01:47:25 < zyp> fair enough
2020-12-07T01:47:53 < emeb> seems like all the cool kids like the usb-c jacks from LCSC.
2020-12-07T01:50:01 < emeb> esden had a pretty good rant about micro usb vs usb-c on his twitch a couple weeks ago.
2020-12-07T01:50:43 < emeb> he'd prefer to keep using micro, but all his followers want usb-c, even for stuff that doesn't do high power or high speed.
2020-12-07T01:53:25 < qyx> twitch is some 2020 irc thing alternative?
2020-12-07T01:54:07 < emeb> kinda sorta - basically just livestreams of people doing design / assembly work while chatting.
2020-12-07T01:54:10 < qyx> thing<->alternative
2020-12-07T01:54:30 < emeb> entertainment for all us quarantinos.
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2020-12-07T01:55:42 < esden> Now I am curious what tacked on monster solution will be created to get video streaming work with IRC too.. :P "ohh but you can use x to do that in IRC too... you just need to be a full time admin of all your services" :P
2020-12-07T01:56:12 < esden> (sorry could not stop myself ;) )
2020-12-07T01:56:38 < emeb> hey esden is here too.
2020-12-07T01:56:50  * emeb realizes that esden is everywhere all the time
2020-12-07T01:56:55 < zyp> he is :)
2020-12-07T01:57:12 < esden> emeb: don't mind me I am just an illusion :D
2020-12-07T01:57:51 < zyp> and I personally want usb-c on everything so I can standardize on one type of cables
2020-12-07T01:58:00 < esden> ROFL
2020-12-07T01:58:22 < esden> As if USB-C was actually decreasing the amount of cables.
2020-12-07T01:58:42 < effractur> usb-c alt mode is nice
2020-12-07T01:59:06  * qyx grabs popcorn
2020-12-07T01:59:24 < esden> zyp: do you plan to only use/own the finger thick cables that have all the strands connected and are rated for full amps?
2020-12-07T01:59:48 < esden> because otherwise you will end up with more cables to support the devices than before
2020-12-07T02:00:56 < esden> I do like the "idea" of USB-C simplifying things... but I don't really see it becoming the reality. :(
2020-12-07T02:01:51 < emeb> +100
2020-12-07T02:02:30 < zyp> esden, not any more than I had only micro-usb3 cables before
2020-12-07T02:02:31 < qyx> OT, so I replaced MMCX connectors with u.FL and made a hole in the middle for pigtails https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sjdW9.jpg
2020-12-07T02:02:33 < esden> Now it will be even more fun as all the cables will fit in the sockets but not necessarily work.
2020-12-07T02:02:37 < zyp> but you're right, not one type of cables
2020-12-07T02:03:14 < esden> and the ways it will not work will be even more than before ... before you had data/non data and that was pretty much it.
2020-12-07T02:03:28 < qyx> added some supercaps and sacrificed 12 uA of leakage to support many-mA radios
2020-12-07T02:03:36 < esden> now you also have to check if it is 2 data or 3 data or high amps or low amps
2020-12-07T02:03:39 < esden> and and and and
2020-12-07T02:03:52 < zyp> only if it matters :)
2020-12-07T02:04:20 < esden> before you could not shove in a micro usb 3 into a micro usb 2
2020-12-07T02:04:29 < esden> so you physically saw that the cable supports one or the other
2020-12-07T02:04:39 < esden> so you were not even trying to do the wrong thing
2020-12-07T02:04:43 < zyp> that's not really a benefit
2020-12-07T02:04:50 < esden> I think it is.
2020-12-07T02:05:00 < esden> it saved me time trying even more cables
2020-12-07T02:05:28 < zyp> if I have a loose cable on my desk plugged into the computer on the other end, it's a benefit being able to plug it into both usb2 and usb3 devices, not a disadvantage
2020-12-07T02:05:32 < esden> "why is it so slow... augh it is a 2 cable"
2020-12-07T02:05:54 < effractur> usb4 fixes a lot 
2020-12-07T02:06:01 < effractur> making a whole chunk mandatory that is now optional
2020-12-07T02:06:43 < esden> effractur: and you think everyone will adhere to the mandatory part?
2020-12-07T02:07:03 < mawk> nrf is annoying
2020-12-07T02:07:05 < mawk> official docs proposing libraries that are marked as deprecated in another part of the docs
2020-12-07T02:07:07 < mawk> can't even write something to uart without spending 2 hours in docs
2020-12-07T02:07:09 < mawk> I regret stm32
2020-12-07T02:07:10 < effractur> esden: if you want the branding yes
2020-12-07T02:07:13 < mawk> chinese are manufacturing usb a male male cables
2020-12-07T02:07:16 < mawk> what will stop them from raping standards even further
2020-12-07T02:07:33 < esden> effractur: and you think that the branding prevented people from breaking the rules and still using the branding?
2020-12-07T02:07:51 < effractur> esden: sofar with usb that has worked out okay
2020-12-07T02:08:18 < esden> really?... I obviously have a very different experience to you.
2020-12-07T02:08:40 < effractur> on the host side of things yes
2020-12-07T02:09:02 < esden> again... obviously not the experience I have
2020-12-07T02:09:24 < effractur> mm edo you have examples
2020-12-07T02:09:50 < esden> yes, plenty of small all in one boxes that break the rules and sell with USB branding
2020-12-07T02:10:14 < zyp> esden, for me usb-c is already simplifying a lot not even counting usb just by replacing displayport cables
2020-12-07T02:10:18 < esden> And yes these are very often china special.
2020-12-07T02:10:54 < esden> even worse with USB stack situation... you can have all the branding but the stack is fully broken ... *looking at you RPi*
2020-12-07T02:11:06 < zyp> before I had to have cables for multiple combinations of mini-dp and full size dp
2020-12-07T02:11:18 < effractur> but with the whole altmode you have the bandwith shitshow
2020-12-07T02:11:24 < zyp> now I have something like five sp sources and three dp sinks that are all using usb-c
2020-12-07T02:11:31 < zyp> dp sources*
2020-12-07T02:11:56 < effractur> yes but with DP1.2 is is stillq uit useless for high bandwith
2020-12-07T02:12:00 < effractur> 1.3 fixes a lot
2020-12-07T02:12:14 < zyp> this also replaces hdmi somewhat
2020-12-07T02:12:17 < esden> zyp: mhh... you mean it simplifies things because you can use the same port for either?... 
2020-12-07T02:12:27 < zyp> esden, and the same cable
2020-12-07T02:13:09 < esden> In reality I am not sure that actually simplifies things. You need a cable for the monitor anyways... what does it matter if it is USB-C or HDMI you still need to have the cable.
2020-12-07T02:13:27 < zyp> because I can use the same cable for other stuff as well
2020-12-07T02:13:34 < esden> but will you?
2020-12-07T02:13:45 < esden> it is connected to the monitor and just sits there
2020-12-07T02:13:48 < zyp> yes, I already have
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2020-12-07T02:13:59 < zyp> it's a portable monitor so it sees temporary use
2020-12-07T02:14:00 < esden> mhh... ok
2020-12-07T02:14:12 < esden> ok sure in that situation I can see that
2020-12-07T02:14:19 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/buFD4.jpg <- e.g. like this
2020-12-07T02:16:18 < zyp> as far as high vs low power cables go, I don't have a reason to care yet
2020-12-07T02:16:55 < zyp> a low power cable is still rated to do 3A@20V, i.e. 60W, and my laptop can't charge faster than that
2020-12-07T02:17:11 < esden> regarding PD... I found it funny how Switch is charging powerbanks in some situations... not sure they fixed it.
2020-12-07T02:17:39 < esden> it will be a load of "fun" issues like that 
2020-12-07T02:17:57 < mawk> I think when releasing a new standard there should be an international panel giving names
2020-12-07T02:18:09 < mawk> so you don't end up with something that means "USB faggot" in french
2020-12-07T02:18:22 < zyp> also, I'm mostly charging the laptop from a 30W charger that's sitting next to the couch because that's what I've got there and it's enough :p
2020-12-07T02:18:29 < esden> mawk: agreed :D
2020-12-07T02:18:49 < esden> there was something recently that was pretty offensive in Polish too...
2020-12-07T02:19:22 < mawk> yeah some marketing teams are pretty stupid
2020-12-07T02:19:32 < mawk> like the e-tron car or the sprout computer
2020-12-07T02:19:43 < mawk> respectively shit and fart
2020-12-07T02:19:51 < mawk> no wonder it didn't sell well in the country
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2020-12-07T02:20:12 < zyp> I think I might own more variants of cables with a micro usb connector than cables with a usb-c connector
2020-12-07T02:20:21 < esden> It is really hard at the end... some car brands change their names completely based on the market they sell to. Not sure that is the reason but Pixel vs Opel for example... 
2020-12-07T02:20:45 < esden> or Golf vs Rabbit
2020-12-07T02:21:03 < esden> it is more of "focus group perception" or something
2020-12-07T02:21:04 < mawk> as long as the name isn't obscene it's always that
2020-12-07T02:21:23 < mawk> unlike usb "faggot" pd
2020-12-07T02:21:35 < esden> yeah they should at least check if it is offensive or not...
2020-12-07T02:22:05 < esden> especially considering that this is a consortium already... they wring their hands about every detail in theory
2020-12-07T02:22:13 < qyx> what is a usb faggot pd?
2020-12-07T02:22:27 < mawk> usb pd reads like usb faggot in french
2020-12-07T02:22:45 < mawk> so to not sound stupid you need to say it the english way peedee
2020-12-07T02:22:48 < qyx> peedee?
2020-12-07T02:23:02 < qyx> how is pd in french then?
2020-12-07T02:23:08 < mawk> a bit like payday
2020-12-07T02:23:27 < mawk> pédé
2020-12-07T02:23:35 < qyx> we have pédé too
2020-12-07T02:23:38 < BrainDamage> pehdeh
2020-12-07T02:24:34 < BrainDamage> a really funny thing is the italian sounding names for the arduino-like crap
2020-12-07T02:24:56 < qyx> also, ú-es-bé instead of you ass bee
2020-12-07T02:25:09 < BrainDamage> there was microchip that put out the vinculum platform, and the sdk was named vinculo
2020-12-07T02:25:20 < mawk> lol
2020-12-07T02:25:28 < mawk> yes qyx 
2020-12-07T02:25:29 < BrainDamage> which in iitalian is "I fuck you in the ass"
2020-12-07T02:25:41 < mawk> lol
2020-12-07T02:25:43 < qyx> lol
2020-12-07T02:26:22 < mawk> I think 1:25 is the perfect time for an obscene amount of psychoactive powder inssuflated in my sinus by the means of a paper straw
2020-12-07T02:26:25 < mawk> right before bed
2020-12-07T02:26:47 < mawk> then I'll have runny nose again and my boss will think again I have covid
2020-12-07T02:26:52 < mawk> he had me self isolate because of that
2020-12-07T02:27:10 < jadew> BrainDamage, I'm starting to think there's something wrong with the italian language, because it seems lots of things have nasty meanings in italian
2020-12-07T02:27:20 < mawk> they just love having sex jadew 
2020-12-07T02:27:23 < mawk> they're a happy people
2020-12-07T02:27:43 < mawk> in fact "dolce vita" means "all day orgy"
2020-12-07T02:28:28 < BrainDamage> most vegetables are slang for one genital, or something sex related
2020-12-07T02:29:02 < jadew> we have that for tools
2020-12-07T02:29:23 < jadew> tools is also slang for penis
2020-12-07T02:29:25 < mawk> maybe your reproductive organs are straighter
2020-12-07T02:29:36 < mawk> so tools are used instead of quirky vegetables
2020-12-07T02:29:43 < jadew> and particular tools are a worse slang for penis
2020-12-07T02:29:58 < jadew> haha mawk 
2020-12-07T02:30:46 < jadew> and the police baton
2020-12-07T02:30:56 < mawk> la matraque
2020-12-07T02:31:07 < jadew> it has the same name as the worst slang for penis, with an "n" at the end
2020-12-07T02:31:12 < jadew> pulan
2020-12-07T02:31:25 < mawk> which came first
2020-12-07T02:31:54 < jadew> I don't know, but that n somehow makes it... heavier
2020-12-07T02:32:35 < mawk> out of 10, I think pain of corrosive powder in sinus is a solid 8 on all the pains I've had so far; but I still continue to do it, isn't the human mind amazing?
2020-12-07T02:32:48 < mawk> it's like jumping a bridge, your brain has natural repulsion against it, but you can overcome it
2020-12-07T02:33:09 < mawk> my brain sees the pain, but my rational mind sees the gratification that will come later; only us humans can do that
2020-12-07T02:33:38 < jadew> you snort it intentionally?
2020-12-07T02:33:55 < mawk> how could it not be intentional
2020-12-07T02:34:06 < jadew> by mistake
2020-12-07T02:34:23 < mawk> half a gram in each nostril is hard to do by mistake
2020-12-07T02:34:29 < mawk> just a little doesn't hurt that much
2020-12-07T02:36:48 < jadew> anyone played with GPS receivers? how weak exactly is the GPS signal?
2020-12-07T02:37:06 < jadew> hmm... I remember having a GPS antenna somewhere, but I don't remember where it is
2020-12-07T02:37:15 < mawk> maybe I can build a dispenser device, but these things are probably hard to engineer
2020-12-07T02:37:17 < mawk> to get reliably the same volume on each press
2020-12-07T02:37:21 < mawk> weak enough to not get coverage in some urban areas of NL
2020-12-07T02:37:26 < mawk> using a low power transceiver, but still a nicely sized antenna
2020-12-07T02:37:32 < mawk> just receicer I guess
2020-12-07T02:37:35 < mawk> doesn't transmit anything
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2020-12-07T02:38:03 < jadew> I know what I'm going to do tonight
2020-12-07T02:38:10 < jadew> I'll look for that antenna
2020-12-07T02:38:17 < mawk> you want to implement the spec yourself?
2020-12-07T02:38:26 < jadew> no
2020-12-07T02:38:30 < mawk> isn't it classified or something
2020-12-07T02:38:31 < mawk> ah
2020-12-07T02:38:43 < jadew> I have a GPSDO and I plan to put it online tomorrow
2020-12-07T02:38:47 < jadew> don't have an antenna tho
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2020-12-07T02:39:03 < mawk> can't you make one?
2020-12-07T02:39:06 < mawk> cut a longer antenna
2020-12-07T02:39:23 < mawk> if you don't find the one
2020-12-07T02:39:41 < jadew> I could, but it needs amplification too, and I don't want to deal with that too
2020-12-07T02:53:43 < emeb_mac> GPS signal power at the surface of the earth is about -125dBm
2020-12-07T02:54:07 < emeb_mac> ie - pretty damn weak. well below the thermal noise floor for that bandwidth. 
2020-12-07T02:54:21 < emeb_mac> so it relies heavily on the DSSS processing gain
2020-12-07T02:57:17 < mawk> cam beme?
2020-12-07T02:59:57 < emeb_mac> anyone here ever used a ULPI HS PHY w/ STM32?
2020-12-07T03:00:12 < aandrew> I have one wired up to a board but we never got to bringing it up
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2020-12-07T03:00:34 < emeb_mac> so "almost"
2020-12-07T03:00:56 < emeb_mac> just wondering how well that works & about how much it adds to the BOM.
2020-12-07T03:03:14 < emeb_mac> looks like the MCHP USB3300 is about $1 in qty.
2020-12-07T03:03:34 < emeb_mac> too bad none of the STM32 have on-chip HS support
2020-12-07T03:04:53 < aandrew> the USB port went to a USB3340; the 3340 has a low-speed/audio upstream which I route to the FT2232 (which I use as SWD/JTAG and serial port) and then the ULPI pins go to the STM32
2020-12-07T03:05:31 < aandrew> the only tricky part with doing that was that when I hold the 3340 in reset it kills the 3340's internal regulator so you have to supply 3.3V to the PHY separately
2020-12-07T03:05:56 < aandrew> I use a pair of fets which disconnect the board's 3.3V from the 3340's 3.3V output when the 3340 is not in reset
2020-12-07T03:06:19 < aandrew> but as far as added BOM cost: the PHY, 3 resistors and 3 small caps
2020-12-07T03:07:01 < aandrew> oh and the 12MHz clock too; I was sharing that with the FTDI, STM32 and PHY
2020-12-07T03:07:13 < aandrew> and that needs a pair of 100n/u bypass capscaps too
2020-12-07T03:07:13 < emeb_mac> interesting
2020-12-07T03:07:46 < emeb_mac> just had a potential client asking about using STM32 for an application that would need HS.
2020-12-07T03:08:46 < aandrew> right, I have a board to test, just no time to test it :-)
2020-12-07T03:09:57 < emeb_mac> BTDT
2020-12-07T03:11:44 < aandrew> hm?
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2020-12-07T03:15:31 < Cracki> https://youtu.be/toewD0VInlc?t=690
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2020-12-07T06:29:57 < ColdKeyboard> Can you "disable" _printf_i, _svfprintf_r and _svfiprintf_r from compilation?
2020-12-07T06:30:21 < ColdKeyboard> They are wasting a ton of ram from my tiny L011 :\
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2020-12-07T07:20:41 < emeb_mac> turn on LTO or gc-sections to remove code you don't use.
2020-12-07T07:21:13 < emeb_mac> but if those functions are being called anywhere in your code they'll be in there "wasting" RAM.
2020-12-07T07:22:00 < emeb_mac> I use a stripped-down tinyprintf that's a lot more lightweight than the standard libc ones.
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2020-12-07T09:01:20 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks for that tinyprintf suggestion... saved a ton of space with it :)
2020-12-07T09:01:47 < ColdKeyboard> Also, is there a common software i2c library for stm32?
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2020-12-07T09:48:53 < mawk> https://youtu.be/EBjvN98U7Ws
2020-12-07T09:48:56 < mawk> listen to this
2020-12-07T09:49:00 < mawk> or the world ends
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2020-12-07T10:08:43 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/kHm/plain   I wonder what this is supposed to be; Windows keeps trying to write 0x74 0x00 0xF6 ... to my EP0
2020-12-07T10:13:40 < jpa-> the lack of SETUP packet is confusing me, it seems like a direct write to the endpoint
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2020-12-07T10:28:40 < mawk> how are you capturing this?
2020-12-07T10:30:00 < jpa-> logic analyzer + sigrok
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2020-12-07T11:23:44 < dongs> < ColdKeyboard> Also, is there a common software i2c library for stm32?
2020-12-07T11:23:48 < dongs> software i2c master is trivial
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2020-12-07T11:25:44 < mawk> https://tricks.serveur.io/make-an-archive-of-a-git-repository.html
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2020-12-07T11:44:17 < mawk> hmm that doesn't work for lfs files
2020-12-07T11:44:25 < mawk> I should improve it
2020-12-07T11:50:04 < karlp> zyp: IMO your "perfect" makes wildly even more c++gross
2020-12-07T12:04:55 < zyp> if you say so
2020-12-07T12:06:49 < zyp> personally I find all ways of naming register fields in C gross, which is why I haven't bothered doing any of that so far
2020-12-07T12:07:39 < zyp> but this C++ shit is actually approaching something where the benefit could outweigh the hassle
2020-12-07T12:31:25 < karlp> heh, speaking of usb, brand new silabs dev board, has mini usb on it :)
2020-12-07T12:32:38 < zyp> awesome
2020-12-07T12:34:28 < effractur> they had some oldstock to get rid of?
2020-12-07T12:34:50 < karlp> I guess it's a reused baord design, the "new bits" are just plug in modules. 
2020-12-07T12:34:53 < karlp> right, just went and looked,
2020-12-07T12:35:06 < karlp> this is the same base baord as the "series 1" modules, from a few years ago,
2020-12-07T12:35:18 < effractur> but swapping to micro
2020-12-07T12:35:19 < karlp> series two modules plug in as well, which is what I've got 
2020-12-07T12:35:28 < effractur> would not be that big of a change
2020-12-07T12:47:37 < karlp> heh, there's a 2x5x1.27mm cortex debug ribbon cable in the box
2020-12-07T12:47:51 < karlp> connector on board is 2x10x1.27, won'tmate with it
2020-12-07T12:48:56 < karlp> oh no, weird, it also has a weird interface adapter little pcb wrapped up in foil here
2020-12-07T12:50:18 < karlp> https://www.silabs.com/content/usergenerated/asi/cloud/attachments/siliconlabs/en/community/software/simplicity-studio/forum/jcr:content/content/primary/qna/stk_wstk_debug_adapt-Anw5/hi_vanmierlo_thank-Xu4K/PCB8010-A02-assy-draw.pdf
2020-12-07T12:57:30 < mawk> I got two of my colleagues fired because I automated their work with some code
2020-12-07T12:57:50 < mawk> poor guys
2020-12-07T12:58:10 < karlp> two? nice
2020-12-07T12:58:20 < mawk> yeah in the production team
2020-12-07T12:58:39 < karlp> that didn't free them up for more work?
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2020-12-07T12:58:48 < mawk> the boss didn't tell me his secret plan when he asked for that code
2020-12-07T12:59:05 < mawk> no, the company has so big volumes now that it cannot produce in house anymore anyway
2020-12-07T12:59:24 < mawk> so it made no sense to keep them apparently
2020-12-07T12:59:30 < karlp> hrm, good old teams, finish meeting, (with no video anyway, because, yay, fuck teams) but music unpauses.
2020-12-07T12:59:40 < karlp> was already paused before the meeting, but thanks I guess?
2020-12-07T13:02:44 < Steffanx> must be teams on lunix
2020-12-07T13:09:51 < Steffanx> Even teams on android seems to work pretty well for me
2020-12-07T13:11:54 < karlp> yeah, teams on linux
2020-12-07T13:12:00 < karlp> teams on android is... not as bad.
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2020-12-07T13:18:24 < mawk> at least they didn't fire me
2020-12-07T13:18:31 < mawk> I signed the new contract
2020-12-07T13:22:42 < Steffanx> until they find out about serveur.io
2020-12-07T13:27:47 < mawk> lol
2020-12-07T13:30:07 < karlp> hrm, free cad tech drawing from modelled part, button press, magic.
2020-12-07T13:30:13 < karlp> tech drawing on imported stl? blank.
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2020-12-07T13:48:36 < karlp> nvm, /me imports the step instead of the stl....
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2020-12-07T14:06:46 < BrainDamage> karlp: it's the difference between simple and easy, which get conflated by most, while in reality, they are almost always in contrast ( but not necessarily )
2020-12-07T14:07:22 < BrainDamage> simple means low complexity, so you can reason and understand it, if it breaks you can always debug yourself
2020-12-07T14:07:35 < BrainDamage> easy means that the /interface/ has low complexity
2020-12-07T14:08:01 < karlp> re c++?
2020-12-07T14:08:04 < BrainDamage> and often that masks an extreme inner complexity to automate the magic
2020-12-07T14:08:04 < karlp> yes. I agree.
2020-12-07T14:08:29 < karlp> I find the gains of the easy apis to be not sufficient to justify the magic that was required to make it work
2020-12-07T14:08:50 < BrainDamage> no, re: your cad
2020-12-07T14:08:51 < BrainDamage> but it's a general statement on things
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2020-12-07T14:12:54 < karlp> yeah, it's this distinction between stl and step being completely different things :)
2020-12-07T14:13:07 < karlp> I tried the "mesh to shape" and it whirred and crunched and then crashed out
2020-12-07T14:13:14 < karlp> thankfully I had step files as well
2020-12-07T14:23:18 < Steffanx> I still have to see a converter from STL to whatever that actually works (for something more than basic shapes)
2020-12-07T14:50:45 < karlp> heh, every single template in freecad has a freecad logo in it.
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2020-12-07T15:41:44 < karlp> fucking joy
2020-12-07T15:41:53 < karlp> "templates just svgs, edit them in inkscape!"
2020-12-07T15:42:03 < karlp> open in inkscape, remove freecad logo, add company logo, save.
2020-12-07T15:42:24 < karlp> nwo the annotation fields don't work, because of some internal translations() in the svg file, and some expectation of absolutes in freecad.
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2020-12-07T15:42:39 < karlp> so much for "just edit in inkscape"
2020-12-07T15:44:30 < karlp> witness the fuckery they try and jump through here: https://wiki.freecadweb.org/TechDraw_TemplateHowTo
2020-12-07T15:49:55 < jpa-> hmm, techdraw workbench looks cool
2020-12-07T15:50:05 < zyp> c++ templates > freecad templates
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2020-12-07T16:21:41 < karlp> (I ended up just hardcoding it in inskcape and just regenerating each time, I can't waste any more itme on it.
2020-12-07T16:22:21 < karlp> but yeah, got a nice logoed drawing from a step file: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HKgg1/etactica-eb312-mechanical.pdf
2020-12-07T16:23:10 < jpa-> i would have dragged those dimensions so that they aren't overlapped by the lines :)
2020-12-07T16:25:31 < karlp> eh, I did that on the earlier ones,
2020-12-07T16:25:41 < karlp> but missed in the continual redrawing from template fuckery
2020-12-07T16:25:44 < karlp>  but yes. good point
2020-12-07T16:33:29 < mawk> I slept only 2 hours because I forgot to take my meds
2020-12-07T16:33:33 < mawk> and I've never been that productive
2020-12-07T16:33:43 < mawk> so based on the scientific method, I should not sleep tonight to achieve maximal productivity
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2020-12-07T16:36:24 < karlp> you... were on irc telling us exactly abotu your "meds"
2020-12-07T16:36:34 < karlp> you didnt' sleep because you forgot your meds, right...
2020-12-07T16:38:38 < Steffanx> muhaha, at least someone is awake
2020-12-07T16:39:51 < mawk> I took 40mg instead of 60mg karlp 
2020-12-07T16:40:14 < mawk> I "inhalated" 2 pills, and forgot to swallow the third
2020-12-07T16:41:22 < jpa-> so, sleeping meds make you drowsy and less productive? who would have thought
2020-12-07T16:41:36 < mawk> it's not sleeping meds
2020-12-07T16:41:45 < mawk> it's meds that prevent me from sleeping if I forgot to take them
2020-12-07T16:42:57 < mawk> then I look like him: https://youtu.be/NaMgdlUcsko?t=80
2020-12-07T16:43:46 < Steffanx> i still think you should look like him
2020-12-07T16:43:51 < mawk> lol
2020-12-07T16:43:52 < Steffanx> and go all in
2020-12-07T16:43:56 < mawk> nonsense
2020-12-07T16:44:06 < mawk> it's 1) torture 2) not effective
2020-12-07T16:45:02 < Steffanx> 1) Yes sure, 2) maybe
2020-12-07T16:45:19 < Steffanx> Now i have to pay for all your pillls :P
2020-12-07T16:45:26 < Steffanx> that you still forget to take
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2020-12-07T17:07:49 < mawk> I pay for them myself
2020-12-07T17:09:10 < Steffanx> not covered by insurance?
2020-12-07T17:09:17 < mawk> yes sure
2020-12-07T17:09:19 < mawk> but eigen risico bs
2020-12-07T17:09:22 < mawk> so I pay for them myself
2020-12-07T17:09:33 < Steffanx> eigen risico <3
2020-12-07T17:09:36 < mawk> lol
2020-12-07T17:09:39 < mawk> not <3
2020-12-07T17:10:00 < effractur> no eigenbijdrage i think
2020-12-07T17:10:04 < effractur> meds are not eigen riscio
2020-12-07T17:10:07 < effractur> at least in NL
2020-12-07T17:10:58 < mawk> that depends on the meds I guess
2020-12-07T17:11:06 < mawk> https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-eigen-bijdrage-zorgverzekering
2020-12-07T17:11:28 < Steffanx> Meds are eigen risico effractur
2020-12-07T17:11:39 < Steffanx> maybe not all of them but
2020-12-07T17:12:06 < effractur> ah 
2020-12-07T17:12:13 < mawk> eigen bijdrage is the difference between the cheapest generic med and the med you get at pharmacy
2020-12-07T17:12:16 < mawk> they say on the site
2020-12-07T17:12:19 < mawk> for meds, at least
2020-12-07T17:12:38 < mawk> but I get the generic
2020-12-07T17:14:10 < mawk> and for my med it says "Dit middel wordt volledig vergoed door uw zorgverzekeraar." so it's not eigen bijdrage
2020-12-07T17:14:25 < Steffanx> oh, you had to look for the proper zorgverzekeraar
2020-12-07T17:14:29 < mawk> no
2020-12-07T17:14:33 < mawk> just on https://www.medicijnkosten.nl/
2020-12-07T17:14:49 < effractur> or https://www.farmacotherapeutischkompas.nl/
2020-12-07T17:14:57 < Steffanx> or do none of them do the full vergoeding?
2020-12-07T17:15:19 < effractur> depens some are stricter then others on the generic s
2020-12-07T17:15:30 < Steffanx> Whats the name/brand of this shit mawk?
2020-12-07T17:15:31 < mawk> for the generic they're supposed to refund it, for this med
2020-12-07T17:15:37 < mawk> methadon expharma hcl 20mg
2020-12-07T17:15:47 < mawk> https://www.medicijnkosten.nl/medicijn?artikel=METHADON+HCL+EXPHARMA+TABLET+20MG&id=abe37e34b3654fe0b5e7c772a0333f27
2020-12-07T17:17:30 < mawk> it's just stealing anyway
2020-12-07T17:17:43 < mawk> in france state paid 70%, insurance paid 30%, no eigen bullshit
2020-12-07T17:18:26 < Steffanx> but dutchland is not france.
2020-12-07T17:18:49 < mawk> sadly
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2020-12-07T17:25:43 < Steffanx> Dont you like our king?
2020-12-07T17:27:35 < Steffanx> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/07/asia/india-mystery-illness-intl-hnk-scli/index.html Time to go back into your bunker jadew
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2020-12-07T18:08:48 < karlp> blah, same garbage with this fancy western epson crystal as my cheap chinese one.  works if I plug 24MHz in from thefunc gen, nothing with a crystal :|
2020-12-07T18:08:56  * karlp goes and looks at ref schematics again
2020-12-07T18:10:17 < PaulFertser> karlp: did you try 1 MOhm in parallel yet?
2020-12-07T18:15:35 < karlp> Added series to reduce drive, haven't tried getting paralle yet I don't think.
2020-12-07T18:15:48 < karlp> actually, It hink I did,
2020-12-07T18:15:52 < karlp> before I tried series
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2020-12-07T18:27:40 < karlp> meh, switched to hub powered only, isntead of dynamic, go tit to work once.
2020-12-07T18:28:07 < karlp> think i need to respin this with footprints for series and parallel resistors 
2020-12-07T18:28:16 < karlp> lame . as. fuck
2020-12-07T18:28:25 < jpa-> respin to a crystal oscillator :)
2020-12-07T18:28:38 < karlp> bloody thing i shappy wtih 23.5 MHz on the external clock,
2020-12-07T18:28:44 < karlp> but picky as fuck on this.
2020-12-07T18:29:15 < jpa-> five weeks later karlp discovers that his crystal has connections on pins 1 and 3, instead of 2 and 4 ;)
2020-12-07T18:30:53 < karlp> no, already checked that three or even four times :)
2020-12-07T18:32:53 < karlp> haven't even _started_ validating the rest of it.
2020-12-07T18:38:47 < qyx> There are lots of really good Alternatives, but all of them require compilation, Python or don't provide graphical user interfaces
2020-12-07T18:38:50 < qyx> yeah
2020-12-07T18:38:54 < qyx> so I make something new in Rust!
2020-12-07T18:39:30 < specing> qyx: https://cmpwn.com/@sir/100437209244243864
2020-12-07T18:42:31 < karlp> tada
2020-12-07T18:42:40 < karlp> tried 1M paralle again.
2020-12-07T18:42:42 < karlp> works
2020-12-07T18:42:46 < karlp> at least with this crystal
2020-12-07T18:42:55 < karlp> fucking shit
2020-12-07T18:43:17 < karlp> PaulFertser: thanks for reminding me to try that again
2020-12-07T18:45:09 < PaulFertser> karlp: we had an odd issue like that years ago during i.mx25 board bringup. The EE guy was just trying every possible thing and at some moment powered it on while keeping the finger on the board. It happened to be on top of the crystal.
2020-12-07T18:46:38 < karlp> well, I mean, the microchip ref schematics have the 1M parallel
2020-12-07T18:46:47 < karlp> it's just classicalyl this "remove for great justice..."
2020-12-07T18:46:56 < karlp> and I'm99% sure I've seen other boards that didn't ahve it
2020-12-07T18:46:57  * karlp shrugs
2020-12-07T18:47:18 < karlp> this board is a bit to hacked to want to go back and try the old cheap crystals on it though...
2020-12-07T18:51:50 < ColdKeyboard> Is internal temp on STM32L011 different compared to other STMs?
2020-12-07T18:52:24 < ColdKeyboard> I'm using the example code from the datasheet and getting 1096... that's a bit too high, also it's definitely not 10.96C :)
2020-12-07T18:53:45 < jpa-> which page of datasheet has the code?
2020-12-07T18:54:24 < ColdKeyboard> p847 -> A.8.17 Temperature computation code example
2020-12-07T18:54:32 < jpa-> the datasheet seems like it might have a typo: "TS ADC raw data acquired at temperature of 130 °C ± 5 °C"  which is outside of operating range
2020-12-07T18:54:54 < jpa-> ah, so refman
2020-12-07T18:55:19 < ColdKeyboard> Yes, my bad. The "full" datasheet :)
2020-12-07T18:55:48 < jpa-> it's not "full datasheet", the datasheet has specs that the refman doesn't, they are complementary :)
2020-12-07T18:55:53 < ColdKeyboard> This is the code I'm using and printing it over serial -> https://controlc.com/6242b4d1
2020-12-07T18:56:37 < jpa-> hmm, funny datasheet really sounds like they actually calibrate at 130°C now
2020-12-07T18:57:33 < jpa-> what are the calibration values at TEMP30_CAL_ADDR and TEMP130_CAL_ADDR?
2020-12-07T18:58:11 < jpa-> and what is your measured value
2020-12-07T18:58:19 < karlp> yeah, I noticed recently that some parts seemed to have a new temp cal 
2020-12-07T18:59:00 < jpa-> also, make sure to use *looong* sampling time when using the temperature sensor
2020-12-07T18:59:07 < ColdKeyboard> I'll print those out now
2020-12-07T18:59:41 < ColdKeyboard> Sampling time is set to hadc.Init.SamplingTime = ADC_SAMPLETIME_160CYCLES_5; Clock is 32MHz/Div2 so this should be long enough
2020-12-07T18:59:42 < jpa-> and wait for the 10µs startup time after you enable TSEN bit
2020-12-07T19:02:04 < karlp> dongs: it's all your fault: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/crystal-load-wisdom.txt#L7
2020-12-07T19:03:11 < PaulFertser> LOL
2020-12-07T19:08:12 < ColdKeyboard> Ok so I get, ADC:3321 TEMP30_CAL_ADDR: 661 TEMP130_CAL_ADDR: 94
2020-12-07T19:09:32 < PaulFertser> karlp: can you please confirm that it wasn't literally that advice from dongs that made you not follow the reference schematics?
2020-12-07T19:10:14 < jpa-> based on datasheet, i'd expect TEMP130_CAL_ADDR to contain a value of about 914, not 94; temp30 value seems sane
2020-12-07T19:10:20 < aandrew> karlp: that is awesome
2020-12-07T19:10:21 < jpa-> ADC value sounds like TSEN bit is not enabled
2020-12-07T19:11:00 < aandrew> although I have to ask if you're using ultracheapshit crystals? I don't think I've ever put a parallel resistor in my crystal osc stuff (possibly because the devices had something similar internally)
2020-12-07T19:11:19 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- Sorry, it's 942. Didn't see keyboard didn't register
2020-12-07T19:11:36 < jpa-> ok, so calibration values seem correct
2020-12-07T19:12:25 < ColdKeyboard> I'm also looking at HAL_ADC_ConfigChannel for ADC, and on line #1953 it has `ADC->CCR |= ADC_CCR_TSEN;` and delay below it...
2020-12-07T19:13:18 < jpa-> yeah, i'm not at all familiar with HAL
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2020-12-07T19:23:24 < karlp> PaulFertser: likely a mix of that advice, seeing siimilar advice elsewhere, and I _believe_ seeing somewhere else that used this part not have it.
2020-12-07T19:23:27  * karlp shrugs
2020-12-07T19:23:32 < karlp> reference schematic has it
2020-12-07T19:23:34 < karlp> it works with it.
2020-12-07T19:23:42  * karlp shoots himself in the head
2020-12-07T19:28:15 < mawk> https://tricks.serveur.io/make-a-proper-archive-of-a-git-repository.html
2020-12-07T19:28:17 < mawk> lfs support
2020-12-07T19:28:28 < mawk> bash sure is an appropriate programming language for scripting, right??
2020-12-07T19:36:40 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-12-07T19:37:11 < englishman> microchip?
2020-12-07T19:37:39 < mawk> bill gates?
2020-12-07T19:47:13 < Ultrasauce> https://github.com/thanks4opensource/buck50#hacks_techniques there is some good salt in here
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2020-12-07T20:37:34 < ColdKeyboard> Damn temp sensor... can't get it to work
2020-12-07T20:37:48 < ColdKeyboard> The ADC value is 3340... that seems too high
2020-12-07T20:43:46 < mawk> what kind of sensor?
2020-12-07T20:44:01 < mawk> 3340 over 14 bits?
2020-12-07T20:44:16 < mawk> or 12 
2020-12-07T20:50:05 < ColdKeyboard> Over 12bits
2020-12-07T20:50:19 < ColdKeyboard> The internal temp in STM32L011
2020-12-07T20:53:19 < ColdKeyboard> Huh... so if I only have temp sensor selected, the value is 685, which looks more like what I would expect
2020-12-07T20:54:21 < ColdKeyboard> Still a bit high but at least it's not 3k
2020-12-07T20:55:15 < ColdKeyboard> If i have temp + any other channel, then ADC value seems out of whack
2020-12-07T21:01:22 < mawk> maybe there's a conflict in the routing
2020-12-07T21:09:54 < ColdKeyboard> But even the single channel, the ADC value is off... :\
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2020-12-07T22:18:12 < qyx> qyx@qyx:~/tmp/predict-2.2.7$ ./configure
2020-12-07T22:18:12 < qyx> Sorry 'qyx'.  You need to be 'root' to install PREDICT.  :-(
2020-12-07T22:18:16 < qyx> uh oh
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2020-12-07T22:21:51 < Steffanx> "more like predicked then"?
2020-12-07T22:22:38 < qyx> it is full of awesomeness
2020-12-07T22:22:49 < qyx> it is a single file
2020-12-07T22:22:49 < qyx> -rw-r--r-- 1 qyx qyx 159K Oct 16 16:10 predict.c
2020-12-07T22:23:03 < qyx> except..
2020-12-07T22:23:32 < qyx> echo -n "char *predictpath={\"`pwd`/\"}, " > predict.h
2020-12-07T22:24:53 < qyx> also /* Global variables for sharing data among functions... */
2020-12-07T22:25:16 < qyx> theres like 100 of them
2020-12-07T22:38:10 < fenugrec> am I supposed to be able to use dfu-util to reflash some F042 USB gadget, and have it automagically reset into application code (also USB-based) ? Tried a bunch or stuff but it's still remaining in DFU mode after reflash
2020-12-07T22:41:01 < fenugrec> I did try the "reset the USB core when booting app code" trick mentioned in some ST appnote, didn't help
2020-12-07T22:42:36 < karlp> using the rom bootloader? or some other dfu one?
2020-12-07T22:42:44 < karlp> st needs defuse shits, not plain dfu reset ops
2020-12-07T22:43:58 < fenugrec> I'm using the BL baked into the chip, i.e. factory BL. Are you saying dfu-util may not be doing the proper 'defuse-shit' to trigger a reset ?
2020-12-07T22:49:28 < zyp> fenugrec, man dfu-util, read description of --dfuse-address
2020-12-07T22:49:40 < zyp> you probably want the leave-command they mention
2020-12-07T22:50:10 < karlp> yteha, there's extra -S shits you need to talk to to st dfuse, instead of the plain simple dfu-util options.
2020-12-07T22:50:13 < karlp> (boooo)
2020-12-07T22:50:16 < fenugrec> zyp, yeah, pretty sure I tried :leave but maybe I messed up something
2020-12-07T22:52:35 < fenugrec> arg, no wildcards when specifying serial # 
2020-12-07T22:54:47 < fenugrec> karlp, zyp, thanks, last time I tried I was probably missing some other arg (-a 0 I think) but it's working now
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2020-12-07T23:03:50 < kakium69> evenings sire
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2020-12-07T23:28:59 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a spec on internal temperature sensors? How close to ambient temperature are they going to be?
2020-12-07T23:29:19 < ColdKeyboard> The one I'm trying out now on L011 is about 10C off... which I'm pretty sure is a mistake
2020-12-07T23:39:26 < kakium69> usually you need to run some calibration routines
2020-12-07T23:39:44 < kakium69> also the die gets warm
2020-12-07T23:39:54 < kakium69> the chip
2020-12-07T23:40:18 < kakium69> also it's not a precision device at all
2020-12-07T23:44:05 < kakium69> not suitable for ambient measurements
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2020-12-07T23:46:53 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: I would not call it a mistake, check temp sensor datasheet values
2020-12-07T23:47:12 < qyx> theres explicitly written it is not accurate
2020-12-07T23:53:09 < ColdKeyboard> Got it, so this reading makes sense. :)
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2020-12-08T00:16:51 < kakium69> or maybe
2020-12-08T00:17:07 < Steffanx> whoa, the kakium69 is alive
2020-12-08T00:17:13 < Steffanx> sup mr kakium69
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2020-12-08T00:29:59 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: Iv ehad abotu 10C off when I had bad integer/float implicit conversions...
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2020-12-08T00:30:36 < karlp> are you account ing for self heating of your part?  (it's also very real)
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2020-12-08T00:46:00 < ColdKeyboard> Good point karlp, I'll see what result I get if I keep everything as float
2020-12-08T00:50:06 < fenugrec> > everything as float ... how big is softfloat on L011 ?
2020-12-08T00:50:14 < karlp> ok, uhubctl detects the port, and can turn a port on an doff.
2020-12-08T00:50:16 < karlp> so far so good
2020-12-08T00:50:25 < karlp> now, leds and over current limits...
2020-12-08T00:51:59 < qyx> oh, playing with your hubs?
2020-12-08T00:53:03 < karlp> yeah
2020-12-08T00:53:06 < karlp> I hate assembly
2020-12-08T00:53:32 < karlp> and I'm doing it port pair by port pair to try and vaidate this fucking shit
2020-12-08T00:54:23 < Steffanx> Still the same hub project? Or a revision?
2020-12-08T00:55:10 < karlp> same one.
2020-12-08T00:55:22 < karlp> I shelved it for ages, waited on parts, then at home, then hating it.
2020-12-08T00:55:25 < karlp> its been very on/off again
2020-12-08T00:55:40 < karlp> hoping to move it forwards a bit...
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2020-12-08T00:58:48 < Steffanx> I still want a hub i also turn on/ofd ports by software, and do current/voltage measurements per port. 
2020-12-08T00:58:56 < Steffanx> But im also not sure why i need that.
2020-12-08T00:59:21 < Steffanx> Such english -_-
2020-12-08T01:00:58 < Steffanx> Or can your hub do that karlp. Turn the individual ports on and off, and do current/voltage measurements..
2020-12-08T01:02:13 < karlp> well, its not doing current/voltage measurements 
2020-12-08T01:02:22 < karlp> but yes, turn the power on an doff to individual ports
2020-12-08T01:02:55 < karlp> I've placed parts that limit it to 1A, but you could repace with footprint compatible for different per port current limits i fyou wanted.
2020-12-08T01:03:04 < qyx> mhm 3 pcs of 60x50mm 4L boards are 33 € on aisler now
2020-12-08T01:07:40 < karlp> well, the fail continues.  out of 7 downstream pors, I'v eassembled two.  one of them powers and can be powered on/off, the other doesn't power up or down
2020-12-08T01:07:47 < karlp> and neither of them function as usb ports.  boo
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2020-12-08T01:17:28 < qyx> hah
2020-12-08T01:20:05 < karlp> "I'm just going to go back to the office, make myself feel pseudo competent again"
2020-12-08T01:20:07 < karlp> no...
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2020-12-08T02:20:30 < dongs> hmm last time i made a USB hub it worked just fine but I used the cheap chink GL850 thing
2020-12-08T02:20:59 < englishman> idk why anyone would use anything else
2020-12-08T02:21:18 < dongs> cuz you want a made in 'murica hub
2020-12-08T02:21:24 < dongs> using some cypress or Ti part
2020-12-08T02:22:31 < karlp> well, i wanted 7 ports
2020-12-08T02:22:38 < karlp> and I wanted to do the per port switching
2020-12-08T02:22:43 < dongs> its usb3 at least right?
2020-12-08T02:22:47 < karlp> everything's china except the hub
2020-12-08T02:22:49 < dongs> i forgot your requirements
2020-12-08T02:22:50 < karlp> nah, just usb2
2020-12-08T02:22:56 < karlp> should be "just lay it out and profit"
2020-12-08T02:23:01 < dongs> yeah seriously
2020-12-08T02:23:05 < dongs> especially for usb2.
2020-12-08T02:23:11 < dongs> that shit will run over coat hangers.
2020-12-08T02:27:47 < dongs> Once initialized, the CAN2 configuration is: Baudrate 125 kbps, 11-bit identifier. Note: CAN1 is clocked during the CAN bootloader execution because CAN1 manages the communication between CAN2 and SRAM.
2020-12-08T02:27:54 < dongs> i guess this is why cube turns on both can periphs
2020-12-08T02:30:09 < aandrew> heh sounds like CAN2 was an afterthought
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2020-12-08T02:35:40 < dongs> so can I just star-connect all can stuff toghter
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2020-12-08T02:36:23 < dongs> time to get 3 devices on there
2020-12-08T02:40:33 < karlp> well, power on 3/3 ports assembled, usb on 0/3.
2020-12-08T02:40:42 < karlp> I feel like I've missed something absolutely fundamental somewhere
2020-12-08T02:40:47  * karlp goes back to the drawing board
2020-12-08T02:41:42 < dongs> did you do something dumb like swap DP/DM or something
2020-12-08T02:41:46 < dongs> is this in kikecad?
2020-12-08T02:42:40 < karlp> yah.
2020-12-08T02:42:51 < karlp> I get device detection messages, just failing to enumerate
2020-12-08T02:43:07 < karlp> gonna take the laptop back to a desk and look at this again
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2020-12-08T02:50:51 < dongs> why the fuck is the CAN appnote so retardedly confusing
2020-12-08T02:51:02 < dongs> there's not a single eaxmple of how to actually frame the comms
2020-12-08T02:59:11 < ColdKeyboard> Did anyone have a chance to play with Nordic's new power profiler kit?
2020-12-08T03:02:16 < karlp> hehe. one of the vdd1.8 rails coming out of the hub is 0.
2020-12-08T03:02:19 < karlp> that might be an issue :)
2020-12-08T03:03:19 < karlp> I suspect this is just going to be shitty assembly ofthis qfn again
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2020-12-08T03:31:08 < karlp> meh, reflowed hub part, still bogus.
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2020-12-08T03:31:58 < karlp> a) reflow a new one.... start on a new board, with less hack marks on it from trying shit and 
2020-12-08T03:32:09 < karlp> either wya, it's too late to realyl do anything else tonight :|
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2020-12-08T04:18:45 < ColdKeyboard> Can someone recommend software I2C library for STM32?
2020-12-08T04:18:55 < ColdKeyboard> by software I mean bitbang lib
2020-12-08T04:19:56 < aandrew> you can code something like that up in about an hour
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2020-12-08T04:37:57 < aandrew> ColdKeyboard: wow even wikipedia gives you something you can almost copy directly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C#Example_of_bit-banging_the_I2C_master_protocol
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2020-12-08T04:56:56 < fenugrec> UPS "estimated time of delivery : today by End of Day". Localtime : 2157... good luck
2020-12-08T04:58:46 < englishman> if it's brown, flush it down
2020-12-08T04:59:05 < englishman> they will just put a 'delayed due to extreme weather's notice or something
2020-12-08T04:59:16 < fenugrec> heh
2020-12-08T05:00:11 < fenugrec> they tried something similar once - "delivery attempted, recipient absent". There were no footprints in the snow
2020-12-08T05:09:07 < englishman> lol
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2020-12-08T08:42:47 < ColdKeyboard> Is there an easy way to delay n uS using HAL on L0? (without setting up timer and stuff)
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2020-12-08T09:46:43 < zyp> how are you expecting to know when n uS have passed without using a timer?
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2020-12-08T15:54:30 < mawk> amazon ftdi shit can't handle 115200 bauds
2020-12-08T15:54:41 < mawk> but when I loopback, it's fine
2020-12-08T15:54:57 < mawk> and when I swap it for stlink v2.1 with exact same cables, it's fine as well
2020-12-08T15:56:57 < karlp> neat. I normally find the stlink usb-uart to be pretty flaky
2020-12-08T16:02:18 < mawk> yeah it's flaky in some other ways
2020-12-08T16:02:23 < mawk> it output garbage bytes at startup
2020-12-08T16:02:44 < Steffanx> Did you check the actual baudrate?
2020-12-08T16:02:46 < mawk> but probably removing a few solder bridges would solve that
2020-12-08T16:02:53 < mawk> what's the actual baudrate?
2020-12-08T16:03:09 < mawk> from the mcu?
2020-12-08T16:03:13 < Steffanx> if its acutally 115200 or something else.
2020-12-08T16:03:20 < mawk> I have high trust in nordic semiconductor corporation of norway
2020-12-08T16:03:20 < Steffanx> Since loopback works
2020-12-08T16:03:50 < mawk> the baudrate is probably fine if stlink v2.1 can see it
2020-12-08T16:03:55 < mawk> unless it's doing baudrate detection magic
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2020-12-08T16:12:10 < Steffanx> Why dont you let you employer buy real ftdi cables, mr mawk?
2020-12-08T16:12:37 < mawk> he only has 5V ones
2020-12-08T16:12:41 < mawk> and anyway it's for me
2020-12-08T16:13:01 < Steffanx> buy
2020-12-08T16:13:22 < mawk> I bought one for 10€ on amazon
2020-12-08T16:13:25 < mawk> with a 3.3V/5V jumper
2020-12-08T16:13:33 < mawk> and the serial number has 0 hits on google so it's probably not a fake
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2020-12-08T16:13:44 < Steffanx> Go to farnell, enter text into search box, copy url/farnell number, send to purchase girl, be happy.
2020-12-08T16:14:32 < mawk> how do you know it's a purchase girl???
2020-12-08T16:14:34 < mawk> you're stalking me
2020-12-08T16:14:40 < mawk> but it's for personal use, I cannot do that
2020-12-08T16:15:10 < Steffanx> You should be working now. ;)
2020-12-08T16:15:23 < mawk> ssssh
2020-12-08T16:15:31 < mawk> I didn't take a pause at noon, it's my pause
2020-12-08T16:15:33 < mawk> believe me
2020-12-08T16:15:41 < mawk> I'm working very hard
2020-12-08T16:15:53 < mawk> and yeah lol at dutch "pauses"
2020-12-08T16:16:01 < mawk> eating a shit sandwich as fast as possible under 20 minutes 
2020-12-08T16:16:07 < mawk> in france we went to restaurant every noon, for 2 hours
2020-12-08T16:16:22 < Steffanx> it was 50/50 i think. purchase people can be male or female.
2020-12-08T16:16:30 < mawk> no you stalked me
2020-12-08T16:16:35 < Steffanx> Sure.
2020-12-08T16:20:51 < mawk> some stupid guy tried to submit a FTDI fake detection code in the linux kernel
2020-12-08T16:20:56 < mawk> I think even the version that bricks the chips
2020-12-08T16:21:05 < mawk> so it was rejected by GKH
2020-12-08T16:21:12 < mawk> but maybe I can adapt it to detect if mine is fine
2020-12-08T16:21:32 < mawk> or use their D2XX driver to talk directly to the ftdi instead of being uart adapter
2020-12-08T16:22:06 < Steffanx> That  ftdi fake detection was funny
2020-12-08T16:22:21 < Steffanx> lunix should not accept fake chips
2020-12-08T16:22:28 < mawk> lol what
2020-12-08T16:22:35 < mawk> of course they should
2020-12-08T16:22:50 < Steffanx> lunix people should share the joy people have with windows and prolific.
2020-12-08T16:22:55 < mawk> lol
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2020-12-08T16:34:54 < englishman> by rejecting that code, they simply confirmed that lunix supports terrorism
2020-12-08T16:35:04 < Steffanx> What englishman said :D
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2020-12-08T16:35:47 < englishman> Steffanx: did you see my telegram pic of the home inspector that passed thismorning
2020-12-08T16:36:18 < Steffanx> oh, it thought it was one of yours out in the wild
2020-12-08T16:36:33 < englishman> nope. surprise home inspection
2020-12-08T16:36:43 < englishman> went all around
2020-12-08T16:37:03 < Steffanx> Better get some cameras up
2020-12-08T16:37:43 < mawk> what did they inspect englishman ?
2020-12-08T16:37:49 < Streaker> were all the beds made and toilets flushed?
2020-12-08T16:38:57 < englishman> mawk: i suspect they were looking for pussy
2020-12-08T16:39:33 < mawk> did they find any?
2020-12-08T16:40:16 < qyx> wtf home inspector
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2020-12-08T16:44:54 < Steffanx> a cat ;)
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2020-12-08T20:40:12 < Steffanx> Laurenceb:  ...
2020-12-08T20:40:25 < Steffanx> is this rockoon internet?
2020-12-08T21:04:23 < Streaker> will they have internet in the UK after Brexit?
2020-12-08T21:09:12 < Steffanx> do they have it now?
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2020-12-08T21:26:05 < mawk> Steffanx: https://projecteuler.net/problem=67
2020-12-08T21:26:07 < mawk> try this
2020-12-08T21:30:24 < machinehum> What's the best flag for debugging again?
2020-12-08T21:30:28 < machinehum> -O0
2020-12-08T21:33:59 < mawk> machinehum: -Og
2020-12-08T21:34:17 < mawk> if it is available
2020-12-08T21:34:20 < mawk> otherwise -O0 yes
2020-12-08T21:34:47 < mawk> -O0 is the default actually
2020-12-08T21:43:01 < Steffanx> Real pros dont use -O0
2020-12-08T21:44:18 < zyp> mawk, is that supposed to be hard? :p
2020-12-08T21:45:16 < mawk> yes zyp 
2020-12-08T21:45:18 < mawk> lol
2020-12-08T21:45:20 < mawk> you solved it?
2020-12-08T21:45:28 < mawk> well it's hard when you don't see the trick
2020-12-08T21:45:34 < zyp> I just read it, but the solution seems pretty obvious to me
2020-12-08T21:45:34 < mawk> when you see it, it's one line of python
2020-12-08T21:45:50 < mawk> like, start from the bottom and work your way up with max() operations?
2020-12-08T21:45:52 < Steffanx> in python anything can be done using 1 line
2020-12-08T21:45:56 < zyp> mawk, exactly
2020-12-08T21:46:13 < mawk> reduce(lambda x, y: [c+max(m1, m2) for c, m1, m2 in zip(y, x, x[1:])], lines[::-1], (len(lines)+1)*[0])
2020-12-08T21:46:23 < effractur> mawk: well no the early euler stuff is not that hard
2020-12-08T21:46:25 < mawk> yeah that's dynamic programming zyp 
2020-12-08T21:46:27 < mawk> pretty cool stuff
2020-12-08T21:46:35 < mawk> that depends who's doing it effractur 
2020-12-08T21:46:55 < mawk> if you never took a CS class you will find it hard
2020-12-08T21:46:58 < zyp> effractur, I mean, the point is to learn from it
2020-12-08T21:47:10 < zyp> if you've already learned the tricks, it's easy
2020-12-08T21:48:17 < Steffanx> and then you have to learn python to know what reduce(lambda x, y: [c+max(m1, m2) for c, m1, m2 in zip(y, x, x[1:])], lines[::-1], (len(lines)+1)*[0]) does :P
2020-12-08T21:48:25 < mawk> lol
2020-12-08T21:48:36 < zyp> mawk, it's not like you have to start from the bottom either, you can just as well start from the top, it's just that the outer cases only have one incoming path in that case
2020-12-08T21:48:39 < Steffanx> deciphering that is harder than coming up with the solution for this euler probhlem :P
2020-12-08T21:48:42 < mawk> maxsums = (len(lines)+1)*[0]
2020-12-08T21:48:44 < mawk> for line in lines[::-1]:
2020-12-08T21:48:46 < mawk>     maxsums = [c+max(m1, m2) for c, m1, m2 in zip(line, maxsums, maxsums[1:])]
2020-12-08T21:48:48 < mawk> here, no reduce Steffanx 
2020-12-08T21:49:27 < mawk> yes you can start from the top too
2020-12-08T21:49:43 < zyp> reduce isn't really a python thing though, it's a general concept
2020-12-08T21:49:45 < mawk> that depends what's most intuitive for you
2020-12-08T21:49:53 < Steffanx> i know zyp :P
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2020-12-08T21:55:04 < Steffanx> You keep up to date with those problems mr mawk?
2020-12-08T21:55:32 < mawk> no Steffanx they get increasingly hard
2020-12-08T21:55:41 < mawk> it's not like you can solve the latest problems as they come
2020-12-08T21:55:55 < mawk> I solved around 70 of them for now
2020-12-08T21:56:03 < mawk> which isn't muh
2020-12-08T21:56:05 < mawk> much
2020-12-08T21:57:03 < Steffanx> Thats why i asked if you keep up to date. Solve them as they come. And now you're waiting for a new one, which is harder than the previous one.
2020-12-08T21:57:22 < Steffanx> but no. im disappointed
2020-12-08T21:57:27 < mawk> lol
2020-12-08T21:57:34 < mawk> it's a lot of hard maths, it's not just algo problems
2020-12-08T21:57:56 < zyp> ah, found out my old PE account still exists
2020-12-08T21:58:05 < zyp> apparently I've done #67 before :p
2020-12-08T21:58:07 < Steffanx> i dont know how often they add new ones..
2020-12-08T21:58:09 < mawk> Steffanx: https://projecteuler.net/problem=25
2020-12-08T21:58:10 < mawk> do this one
2020-12-08T21:58:12 < mawk> by hand
2020-12-08T21:58:20 < mawk> or with a calculator if you wish, but not a script
2020-12-08T21:58:34 < zyp> apparently I've done 1-20, 24 and 67
2020-12-08T21:59:16 < Steffanx> no thanks mawk
2020-12-08T22:00:25 < mawk> try 25 then zyp 
2020-12-08T22:01:00 < mawk> I jut tried it by hand, it works
2020-12-08T22:03:59 < Steffanx> But you have this math degree. You should do it easily with log this log that.
2020-12-08T22:04:17 < mawk> it's not a math degree
2020-12-08T22:04:22 < mawk> then use a log Steffanx !
2020-12-08T22:04:30 < mawk> see, you know how to do it
2020-12-08T22:04:46 < zyp> mawk, wouldn't that be something like 1000 / log10(1.618) or some shit?
2020-12-08T22:05:06 < mawk> F_n is almost phi^n/sqrt(5), the difference is neglibible
2020-12-08T22:05:36 < mawk> so it would be log10(φ^n/sqrt(5)) >= 999
2020-12-08T22:05:50 < mawk> so almost what you said
2020-12-08T22:06:09 < mawk> F_n is actually round(φ^n/sqrt(5))
2020-12-08T22:06:11 < mawk> the closest integer
2020-12-08T22:06:47 < Steffanx> but you know about this F_n stuff i never even heard of before. Mr. Binet it turns out to be.
2020-12-08T22:07:01 < mawk> yyes
2020-12-08T22:07:04 < mawk> binet's formula
2020-12-08T22:07:08 < mawk> it's not that hard to prove
2020-12-08T22:07:17 < mawk> just assume F_n "looks like" x^n, and solve for x
2020-12-08T22:07:20 < mawk> you find x = φ
2020-12-08T22:08:22 < mawk> then to ensure initial condition you must have F_n = (φ^n - (-1/φ)^n) / (φ - (-1/φ))
2020-12-08T22:08:34 < mawk> which is almost equal to φ^n/sqrt(5)
2020-12-08T22:08:35 < mawk> and that's it
2020-12-08T22:10:00 < Steffanx> Yeah easy
2020-12-08T22:11:44 < mawk> then you find x= φ or x = -1/φ I mean
2020-12-08T22:12:01 < mawk> it's hidden vector space stuff
2020-12-08T22:12:46 < mawk> speaking of log(φ), did you know that the worst case complexity of euclide algorithm is O(log_φ(n)) ? because it is attained with consecutive fibonacci numbers
2020-12-08T22:13:01 < mawk> gcd(13, 8) takes the most time to compute for numbers of this size
2020-12-08T22:13:43 < mawk> because the euclide algoritm goes gcd(13, 8) = gcd(8, 5) = gcd(5, 3) = gcd(3, 2) = gcd(2, 1) = gcd(1, 1) = 1
2020-12-08T22:13:50 < mawk> it passes through every single fibonacci number
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2020-12-08T22:20:55 < karlp> englishman: did you do building mods yourself you were waiting on? or is just generic anytime surprise building inspections a thing?
2020-12-08T22:21:50 < zyp> karlp, well, the inspector was apparently a cat…
2020-12-08T22:22:17 < karlp> ok..
2020-12-08T22:22:20 < karlp> missed that :)
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2020-12-08T22:25:11 < Steffanx> you guys miss a lot not being on telegram.. (maybe not really ... :P )
2020-12-08T22:26:03 < Steffanx> like dongs taking cat pics with his thermal camera.
2020-12-08T22:26:03 < karlp> I have it on another computer
2020-12-08T22:26:09 < zyp> not our fault you guys are taking the stuff elsewhere
2020-12-08T22:26:48 < Steffanx> nah, you dont want all the cat pics here anyway
2020-12-08T22:26:55 < zyp> I'm just fed up with all these new chat shits because there's too many of them
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2020-12-08T22:35:18 < machinehum> mawk: ty
2020-12-08T22:40:35 < jpa-> i'm fine with the channels that transparently bridge matrix/telegram/whatever to irc, but i wouldn't bother using such stuff myself
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2020-12-08T22:41:43 < zyp> I've been convinced to use discord, but I find it hard to keep up with
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2020-12-08T22:43:59 < zyp> everything gets fragmented into small niche channels, so just across the couple of things I've joined there's probably a couple hundred channels
2020-12-08T22:46:58 < Steffanx> lol no jpa-, that soo annoying those bridges.
2020-12-08T22:51:24 < Steffanx> And indeed what you say about discord, this fragmentation is soo hard to keep up with. 
2020-12-08T22:51:37 < Steffanx> Lets split up ##stm32 in ##stm32-uart ##stm32-usb etc.
2020-12-08T22:52:27 < qyx> ##stm32-cube
2020-12-08T22:54:22 < Steffanx> ##stm32-cube² is next?
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2020-12-08T23:57:20 < machinehum> zyp: https://github.com/Machine-Hum/turnip_cli
2020-12-08T23:57:24 < machinehum> Did I beat you?
2020-12-08T23:58:39 < zyp> machinehum, in making one? sure
2020-12-08T23:58:55 < machinehum> No I mean is my name better
2020-12-08T23:59:07 < zyp> than what?
2020-12-08T23:59:51 < machinehum> Your cli's name
--- Day changed Wed Dec 09 2020
2020-12-09T00:00:06 < zyp> I don't think my cli has a name yet
2020-12-09T00:00:32 < machinehum> boo
2020-12-09T00:02:37 < zyp> your CLI API seems inefficient
2020-12-09T00:03:10 < zyp> declaring and instancing a class for each command seems overkill
2020-12-09T00:03:58 < zyp> especially if every instanced command then have to hold a pointer to the uart they are to reply to
2020-12-09T00:04:23 < zyp> that'll be a lot of copies of the same pointer
2020-12-09T00:05:14 < zyp> and there should be an abstraction layer in between as well
2020-12-09T00:05:33 < machinehum> I should stuff that pointer in the Cmd class
2020-12-09T00:05:43 < zyp> commands shouldn't have to care whether the CLI is talking over tcp sockets or uarts or whatever
2020-12-09T00:05:52 < zyp> no
2020-12-09T00:06:00 < machinehum> Yeah that wont help
2020-12-09T00:06:05 < machinehum> Nevermind
2020-12-09T00:06:17 < zyp> what I'd do is pass it as an argument
2020-12-09T00:07:11 < zyp> I'd also make each command handler a function rather than an object, that way you can use lambdas
2020-12-09T00:07:57 < karlp> are you both doing advent of code shit?
2020-12-09T00:08:15 < zyp> this has nothing to do with advent of code
2020-12-09T00:08:39 < zyp> I think machinehum is making a reusable CLI lib, and I mentioned the other day that I were gonna do one too
2020-12-09T00:15:03 < machinehum> Yeah I couldn't find anything decent around
2020-12-09T00:15:17 < machinehum> Pass uart into the command as an argument?
2020-12-09T00:15:23 < machinehum> pointer, rather
2020-12-09T00:16:54 < zyp> yeah, except make it a generic character io interface that you can hook up to uart or tcp socket or whatever
2020-12-09T00:18:00 < Steffanx> You are into fucking Goddamn cryptocurrency machinehum?
2020-12-09T00:20:38 < qyx> machinehum: https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/develop/services/cli/system_cli_tree.c
2020-12-09T00:20:49 < qyx> not particularly good code
2020-12-09T00:20:59 < qyx> and not maintained and never bothered to actually finish the thing
2020-12-09T00:21:28 < qyx> https://github.com/iqyx/treecli/tree/develop
2020-12-09T00:26:27 < Steffanx> and gpl -_-
2020-12-09T00:26:49 < Steffanx> oh not that cli, ok
2020-12-09T00:27:33 < qyx> sn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLpN8Cco3mU
2020-12-09T00:27:41 < qyx> venting now
2020-12-09T00:28:45 < zyp> when's launch?
2020-12-09T00:29:22 < qyx> I was thinking in a minute or two
2020-12-09T00:29:34 < zyp> ah, cool
2020-12-09T00:29:46 < Steffanx> if it's going to launch..
2020-12-09T00:30:19 < Laurenceb> t -8
2020-12-09T00:30:20 < Laurenceb> or so
2020-12-09T00:30:23 < Laurenceb> minutes
2020-12-09T00:30:57 < zyp> 4:30
2020-12-09T00:31:06 < Steffanx> indeed
2020-12-09T00:31:35 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf83yzzme2I the spacex stream..
2020-12-09T00:31:56 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf83yzzme2I
2020-12-09T00:31:59 < qyx> yeah
2020-12-09T00:32:03 < Steffanx> haha ty qyx :)
2020-12-09T00:33:05 < karlp> 3d modelling fun right? https://imgur.com/a/FnRQnjX
2020-12-09T00:35:43 < Steffanx> haha, too bad. Abort.
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2020-12-09T00:40:55 < zyp> karlp, nice
2020-12-09T00:41:02 < zyp> how big is the room?
2020-12-09T00:43:44 < machinehum> Steffanx: heh
2020-12-09T00:45:02 < zyp> karlp, have you considered just building your own shelves?
2020-12-09T00:45:26 < karlp> I have
2020-12-09T00:45:29 < karlp> and it would be "fun"
2020-12-09T00:46:00 < zyp> I mean, the HUSA and IKEA options are pretty bad and the AJ one is pretty expensive
2020-12-09T00:46:02 < karlp> but it would just take even more time, and I'm taking time off work to excavate the storage and install this and reload it all anyway.
2020-12-09T00:46:13 < karlp> yeah, the husa one looks pretty wonky, 
2020-12-09T00:46:18 < karlp> ikea is expensive for what you're getting
2020-12-09T00:46:43 < karlp> there's a byko one that fits nicely, but a friend bought a byko set, bent it all up ttrying to put it together, ended up returning it and building his own out of wood
2020-12-09T00:46:47 < karlp> so... not encouraging
2020-12-09T00:46:48 < zyp> the husa/ikea ones have a ton of posts that gets in the way
2020-12-09T00:47:02 < karlp> I know the aj vorulistin ones will _just work_ and I'ðll never have to think abotu it agian.
2020-12-09T00:47:18 < zyp> true
2020-12-09T00:47:29 < karlp> they're this sort of thing, don't trust the models too much :) https://www.ajvorulistinn.is/voruhusi/hillur-og-rekkar/hillueining/1575316-19688730.wf?productId=19688732
2020-12-09T00:47:42 < karlp> the models are just covering units and some colouring-ish to help mem separate them.
2020-12-09T00:47:46 < zyp> yeah, I already looked, we've got AJ here too
2020-12-09T00:47:50 < karlp> room is 6mm2
2020-12-09T00:47:52 < karlp> ah, ok
2020-12-09T00:48:03 < karlp> theyv'e got nice stuff, but it's all kinda pricy
2020-12-09T00:48:09 < zyp> same here
2020-12-09T00:48:21 < karlp> and I won't get it until dec 23rd, so not going to get it up this week like I'd planned
2020-12-09T00:48:34 < karlp> guess I'm working tomorrow again, or going with a husa/byko option...
2020-12-09T00:48:45 < zyp> shame about the window, that'd be the best wall to have shelves on
2020-12-09T00:49:14 < karlp> well, yeah :)
2020-12-09T00:49:26 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/I00gq.jpg <- I'm still super happy about the ones I built
2020-12-09T00:49:33 < karlp> but, because there's a window, I should just make it a studio appartment and rent it out? :)
2020-12-09T00:49:37 < zyp> but that was not a corner setup
2020-12-09T00:49:46 < karlp> those look nice
2020-12-09T00:50:10 < karlp> but yeah, corner, plus teh back walls are just little "fake walls" not anything I'd want to put load bearing on too much.
2020-12-09T00:50:19 < zyp> it's a simple but solid construction
2020-12-09T00:50:22 < zyp> ah, fair
2020-12-09T00:50:34 < karlp> the lumber there would cost me a fortune anyway :)
2020-12-09T00:51:01 < karlp> can't always find reclaimed stuff for making nice things with.
2020-12-09T00:51:08 < zyp> I think these cost me somewhere between 2-3k NOK in materials
2020-12-09T00:51:18 < karlp> theyðre like 2m long?
2020-12-09T00:51:25 < qyx> I was a bout to recommend elementsystem
2020-12-09T00:51:25 < zyp> bit less than 2.4
2020-12-09T00:51:35 < qyx> but it is mounted on the wall
2020-12-09T00:51:37 < karlp> 10mm planks lying on the rails?
2020-12-09T00:51:49 < karlp> qyx there's a shitty element system thing at the moment
2020-12-09T00:51:53 < karlp> I hate those things really.
2020-12-09T00:52:01 < zyp> no, those are shelf plates
2020-12-09T00:52:05 < karlp> but it's all disconnectand detacthed
2020-12-09T00:52:19 < zyp> 60x240cm, so I had to cut them a bit
2020-12-09T00:52:20 < qyx> I am quite happy with it
2020-12-09T00:52:40 < karlp> I want to get even shelves around the corner and not having free hanging air off teh ends of shelves and shit
2020-12-09T00:53:25 < karlp> zyp: yeah, ti's a long bit flat piece, with then thin bits on edge to make the supports?
2020-12-09T00:53:49 < zyp> what do you mean?
2020-12-09T00:54:06 < karlp> just looking at the construction
2020-12-09T00:54:11 < zyp> ah
2020-12-09T00:54:13 < karlp> you're not concerned about the middle front sagging?
2020-12-09T00:54:31 < zyp> I built the frames first: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zoXh6.jpg then added the plates on top
2020-12-09T00:54:35 < karlp> your thin front on edge supports give it enough strength that way?
2020-12-09T00:54:45 < zyp> plates are screwed and glued to the front support
2020-12-09T00:54:48 < zyp> and yeah
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2020-12-09T00:56:07 < zyp> I were concerned about it sagging in the middle before I built it, tried to figure out how to do the numbers, didn't get much smarter but figured it was worth a try, holding up great so far
2020-12-09T00:56:36 < karlp> worst comes to worst, just stick a brackt in under the middle.
2020-12-09T00:57:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lYM6s.jpg
2020-12-09T00:58:30 < karlp> these arseholes just go "here's the italian catalog we're reselling you, no further help or prices: https://rymi.is/products/hillukerfi-fami"
2020-12-09T00:58:46 < karlp> did you design them for that size box? :)
2020-12-09T00:58:50 < zyp> I'm in the middle of reorganizing it, currently waiting for a bunch of those grey euroboxes that I have a couple of sitting in the back
2020-12-09T00:59:14 < zyp> no, it just worked out to fit like that when I divided the room height into five :p
2020-12-09T00:59:34 < zyp> I'm aiming to get rid of the cardboard once I get the new euroboxes
2020-12-09T01:00:23 < zyp> probably gonna be dealing with the smaller stuff first though
2020-12-09T01:02:05 < zyp> https://www.auer-packaging.com/no/no/Eurokasser-uten-hull.html <- got a bunch of these on the way
2020-12-09T01:02:37 < effractur> auer <3
2020-12-09T01:04:17 < fenugrec> "euro container"... what makes them european, except the nice even metric dimensions ?
2020-12-09T01:04:42 < zyp> fenugrec, they fit onto euro pallets
2020-12-09T01:05:04 < fenugrec> ah. they seem nicely stackable too
2020-12-09T01:05:08 < zyp> yes
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2020-12-09T01:05:28 < zyp> footprint is half/quarter/eigth of a pallet and so on
2020-12-09T01:05:58 < fenugrec> typical "stackable" garbage here has wasteful tapered walls https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/type-a-clarity-shoe-box-6-l-5-pk-0991253p.html
2020-12-09T01:06:27 < zyp> that's stackable when empty, the euroboxes don't do that
2020-12-09T01:06:46 < fenugrec> yes, but you don't buy boxes to store them empty, amirite
2020-12-09T01:06:54 < zyp> exactly :)
2020-12-09T01:08:30 < zyp> they also have ESD safe boxes: https://www.auer-packaging.com/no/no/ESD-eurokasser.html
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2020-12-09T01:09:37 < zyp> the company I'm doing contract work for at the moment are using those for storage, so they sent me home with one with some equipment in, which is how I found AUER in the first place :p
2020-12-09T01:11:35 < zyp> looked at other suppliers as well (including AJ), but AUER worked out to be cheaper than everything else
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2020-12-09T01:49:26 < machinehum> Rocket no blast off yet eh
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2020-12-09T04:39:26 < fenugrec> Cool, UPS just informed me they're not going to deliver the package yesterday, nor today
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2020-12-09T04:53:24 < emeb_mac> antici.... pation
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2020-12-09T14:35:56 < PaulFertser> Is it common for English-speaking people to mix up "authentication" and "authorisation"?
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2020-12-09T14:38:41 < Streaker> in what context?
2020-12-09T14:55:09 < PaulFertser> Streaker: e.g. if you ask someone what 2FA is, what are the chances A would be expanded correctly?
2020-12-09T14:57:08 < Streaker> the meaning of "authorisation" is somewhat similar to "authentication". I can imagine someone saying 2FA is two factor authentication. 
2020-12-09T14:57:28 < Streaker> it would still make sense.
2020-12-09T14:58:26 < Streaker> I mean authorisation not authentication.
2020-12-09T14:58:33 < Streaker> haha. qed.
2020-12-09T14:59:15 < mawk> secure authorization depends on authentication right?
2020-12-09T14:59:23 < mawk> in french we say authentiFIcation
2020-12-09T14:59:25 < mawk> it's confusing
2020-12-09T14:59:53 < mawk> verb authentifier
2020-12-09T15:00:24 < Streaker> yes
2020-12-09T15:01:15 < mawk> well there is a case for 2FA being authorization then
2020-12-09T15:01:39 < mawk> you don't just want to know you have the right 2FA key, you want the user to actively authorize you by pressing the button
2020-12-09T15:04:13 < mawk> αυθεντικος
2020-12-09T15:05:43 < jadew> PaulFertser, it's common to make mistakes, but if the mistake is common, then they're just stupid
2020-12-09T15:05:45 < Steffanx> Does it depend on authentication mawk?
2020-12-09T15:06:16 < Steffanx> You can authorize me to do something without me authenticating myself (would be stupid but .. you could)
2020-12-09T15:06:59 < Streaker> then who is he authorizing? it could be you, it could be anybody.
2020-12-09T15:07:18 < Streaker> who/what
2020-12-09T15:07:20 < Steffanx> my authorizer
2020-12-09T15:07:28 < jadew> I authorize myself, to do whatever I please, without authentication
2020-12-09T15:07:40 < Steffanx> Yes, you do know who you are jadew.
2020-12-09T15:07:50 < jadew> haha
2020-12-09T15:08:05 < Steffanx> did you read my news about the mysterious happening in india?
2020-12-09T15:08:06 < jadew> that is true, I trust this person.
2020-12-09T15:08:15 < Streaker> which person?
2020-12-09T15:08:20 < jadew> no, let me scroll up
2020-12-09T15:08:29 < Steffanx> Also the korean paper about covid transmission over 6.5 meters?
2020-12-09T15:08:29 < jadew> Streaker, my person
2020-12-09T15:08:47 < Steffanx> it was a while ago jadew
2020-12-09T15:08:59 -!- Streaker is now known as TheRealJadew
2020-12-09T15:09:01 < Steffanx> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/07/asia/india-mystery-illness-intl-hnk-scli/index.html Time to go back into your bunker jadew
2020-12-09T15:09:12 < jadew> thanks
2020-12-09T15:09:31 < jadew> is it summer in india?
2020-12-09T15:09:40 < TheRealJadew> it is always summer in India.
2020-12-09T15:09:53 < jadew> lol
2020-12-09T15:09:56 < jadew> wtf?
2020-12-09T15:11:09 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think it's pretty obvious 2FA is using two factors combined both for the same purpose: authentication. And then the server knows what this particular authenticated person is authorised to do.
2020-12-09T15:11:26 < jadew> ah TheRealJadew I didn't see the nick change
2020-12-09T15:11:35 < TheRealJadew> who are you?
2020-12-09T15:11:37 < jadew> I thought someone had that nickname for a while, waiting to use it
2020-12-09T15:11:54 -!- TheRealJadew is now known as Streaker
2020-12-09T15:11:59 < jadew> TheRealJadew, authentication failed. Authorization denied.
2020-12-09T15:12:24 < Streaker> but you just removed the authentication requirement for jadew.
2020-12-09T15:12:52 < jadew> I removed it for myself, you can't be me
2020-12-09T15:13:06 < Streaker> I'm the real jadew, you're just an imposter.
2020-12-09T15:13:18 < mawk> or it's a means for the user to refuse access to someone impersonating him PaulFertser 
2020-12-09T15:13:25 < jadew> Steffanx, don't know... 300 is not that much
2020-12-09T15:13:49 < Steffanx> COVID only started with one bat.
2020-12-09T15:13:52 < jadew> maybe they celebrated something and took a bath in the Ganges
2020-12-09T15:14:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: then it wouldn't be called another factor if it was meant that way
2020-12-09T15:14:05 < Steffanx> *started with only one bat
2020-12-09T15:14:11 < mawk> you're supposed to get out cleaner than you went in, in a bath, jadew 
2020-12-09T15:14:19 < mawk> I don't think you can bathe in the Gange
2020-12-09T15:14:25 < mawk> you can smear yourself in the Gange maybe
2020-12-09T15:14:43 < jadew> it's holy, so they also drink it
2020-12-09T15:14:47 < mawk> lol
2020-12-09T15:16:09 < jadew> that said, I would love to visit india and even take a bath in the Ganges
2020-12-09T15:16:37 < jadew> I wouldn't, but I would love to
2020-12-09T15:16:39 < Streaker> the way they describe it, 2FA is a secret only you know plus a device only you possess.
2020-12-09T15:17:06 < jadew> https://historyfromeachcountries.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/post-17253-1278420891.jpg
2020-12-09T15:17:15 < Steffanx> jadew the ganges isnt even close to where it happened.
2020-12-09T15:17:18 < jadew> looks at that... it's like going back into biblical times
2020-12-09T15:17:59 < PaulFertser> In a Tyvek HazMat jadew ?
2020-12-09T15:18:49 < jadew> PaulFertser, no, in that journey, I imagine I'm an alien and none of the earthly bugs are compatible with my biology
2020-12-09T15:18:54 < Steffanx> Arent you from India mr Streaker?
2020-12-09T15:19:00 < Streaker> yes.
2020-12-09T15:19:18 < Steffanx> You must be from a better part
2020-12-09T15:19:34 < jadew> did you bathe in the Ganges?
2020-12-09T15:19:38 < PaulFertser> Haha nice jadew 
2020-12-09T15:22:13 < jadew> Streaker, did you bathe in the Ganges?
2020-12-09T15:22:22 < Streaker> not yet.
2020-12-09T15:23:11 < mawk> what do you mean not yet
2020-12-09T15:23:13 < mawk> you're going to do it?
2020-12-09T15:23:18 < jadew> according to online publications, until you do, you're not a living entity with human rights
2020-12-09T15:23:39 < Steffanx> You're not going to do it mawk?
2020-12-09T15:23:44 < mawk> no
2020-12-09T15:23:56 < Steffanx> Come on.
2020-12-09T15:24:07 < Steffanx> Nice holiday with mrs ukraine
2020-12-09T15:24:12 < Streaker> I'm not religious, so I'm not motivated to do it.
2020-12-09T15:24:22 < mawk> why would you even consider doing it then Streaker ?
2020-12-09T15:24:27 < mawk> social pressure?
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2020-12-09T15:24:40 < Steffanx> englightenment
2020-12-09T15:24:55 < mawk> just photoshop you in front of the 1st google image hit for "gange" and send to your family
2020-12-09T15:25:07 < jadew> mawk, you probably didn't click on my link
2020-12-09T15:25:21 < mawk> lol
2020-12-09T15:25:22 < jadew> it's beautiful
2020-12-09T15:25:34 < mawk> no
2020-12-09T15:25:51 < mawk> I'm sure they photoshopped' out the fish cadavers and old tires floating
2020-12-09T15:26:31 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with paint shop pro?
2020-12-09T15:26:42 < mawk> it's not a good verb
2020-12-09T15:27:16 < jadew> psped
2020-12-09T15:27:27 < mawk> playstation portabled?
2020-12-09T15:27:28 < Steffanx> That would playstation portabled.
2020-12-09T15:27:31 < Steffanx> *would be
2020-12-09T15:27:33 < Steffanx> lol
2020-12-09T15:28:19 < jadew> Streaker, where do you live in India? (I want to travel there with google earth)
2020-12-09T15:28:56 < BrainDamage> https://old.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/comments/k8hyob/what_the_heck_is_this_thing_vfx_practical_effects/
2020-12-09T15:29:46 < Streaker> jadew: in the western part
2020-12-09T15:30:30 < jadew> BrainDamage, that looks radioactive as hell
2020-12-09T15:30:53 < jadew> Streaker, come on... give me a city
2020-12-09T15:31:06 < jadew> if you don't want to give me your city, give me something around the area
2020-12-09T15:31:19 < Streaker> jadew: Mumbai
2020-12-09T15:31:28 < jadew> thanks, I'll check that out
2020-12-09T15:33:00 < Steffanx> Which blue roof is yours Streaker?
2020-12-09T15:33:55 < jadew> India is all about the colors
2020-12-09T15:34:15 < jadew> blue because royal?
2020-12-09T15:34:28 < Steffanx> https://www.hindustantimes.com/rf/image_size_960x540/HT/p2/2020/09/17/Pictures/covid-19-lockdown-in-mumbai_e26585a8-f8fe-11ea-8447-4cde2f7f32a9.jpg blue because ... 
2020-12-09T15:35:06 < jadew> what are those?
2020-12-09T15:35:25 < jadew> btw... my google earth won't do street view in Mumbai
2020-12-09T15:35:53 < mawk> blue because mosquitoes Steffanx 
2020-12-09T15:35:55 < mawk> I'm sure
2020-12-09T15:37:13 < jadew> there's only like... one street available
2020-12-09T15:37:42 < jadew> oh man... the british really fucked them over...
2020-12-09T15:37:56 < jadew> they gave them cars that drive on the wrong side
2020-12-09T15:38:55 < BrainDamage> jadew: see the first comment, it's correct
2020-12-09T15:44:33 < Steffanx> BrainDamage did you post this after my mysterious desease in india? People seem to mention that in the comments as well
2020-12-09T15:44:47 < BrainDamage> yup
2020-12-09T15:44:48 < jadew> interesting explanation, so you can handle that quite safely...
2020-12-09T15:44:50 < jadew> who would have thought
2020-12-09T15:46:24 < Steffanx> unless its really related to the 300 people... > quite safely?
2020-12-09T15:46:27 < jadew> reminds me of a story with some folks (from Brazil I think) who found nuclear waste
2020-12-09T15:46:47 < jadew> and took it home... to show to their entire families, because it was warm and glowing
2020-12-09T15:46:50 < jadew> they all died
2020-12-09T15:48:04 < zyp> if you find nuclear waste that is warm and glowing, wouldn't you be dead before you have a chance to bring it anywhere?
2020-12-09T15:48:39 < jadew> zyp, don't know, it's a story I heard from a physics teacher (online)
2020-12-09T15:49:05 < BrainDamage> generally those sources have a shutter iris too
2020-12-09T15:49:06 < BrainDamage> bleh, my server is lagging like hell, brb rebooting
2020-12-09T15:49:09 < Steffanx> Facebook?
2020-12-09T15:49:11 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
2020-12-09T15:49:21 < Steffanx> News on Facebook is always true
2020-12-09T15:49:56 < jadew> no, but speaking of facebook, I tried to advertise and they blocked my ads account
2020-12-09T15:50:05 < jadew> now they want a photo id
2020-12-09T15:50:29 < karlp> PaulFertser: it's super common, even among people working on it.
2020-12-09T15:50:47 < jadew> working on what?
2020-12-09T15:51:14 < jadew> authentication/autorization?
2020-12-09T15:51:27 < PaulFertser> karlp: but how so? Isn't the word "authencity", "authentic" clear enough?
2020-12-09T15:51:33 < jadew> *authorization
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2020-12-09T15:52:37 < zyp> PaulFertser, I generally don't care much for the distinction
2020-12-09T15:53:02 < jadew> they mean different things tho...
2020-12-09T15:53:17 < zyp> it's all part of the same soup
2020-12-09T15:53:33 < jadew> to authenticate something is to confirm its identity
2020-12-09T15:53:38 < BrainDamage> ping
2020-12-09T15:53:47 < jadew> to authorize something is to permit someone/something to something
2020-12-09T15:53:53 < BrainDamage> ok, considerably betttr
2020-12-09T15:54:14 < BrainDamage> zyp: depends on multiple factors, including the type of source
2020-12-09T15:54:14 < Steffanx> Pong
2020-12-09T15:54:51 < BrainDamage> for alpha sources, just don't swallow/snort ( I'm looking at you, mawk ) them and you'll be fine
2020-12-09T15:56:31 < BrainDamage> beta and gamma, depends on not just the intensity, but the area too
2020-12-09T15:56:35 < BrainDamage> you can get 5Sv on your hand, get a nasty burn, and that's all you'll get
2020-12-09T15:56:43 < BrainDamage> if instead you get the same intensity over your thorax, you're dead
2020-12-09T15:57:39 < jadew> https://www.reddit.com/r/holdmyfeedingtube/comments/k5svyv/hmft_after_trying_to_ride_this_halfbike/
2020-12-09T15:57:50 < jadew> from the same subreddit 
2020-12-09T15:57:55 < BrainDamage> inner organs are more vulnerable, and not only that, the body is more vulnerable to distributed damage than to spot damage
2020-12-09T15:58:26 < BrainDamage> so multiple organ damage becomes fatal, while you can somewhat tolerate single onee
2020-12-09T15:58:30 < BrainDamage> except for few
2020-12-09T15:58:35 < karlp> PaulFertser: " zyp | it's all part of the same soup
2020-12-09T15:59:02 < karlp> unless yhou're working on it explicitly, and even then, it's all just AAA :)
2020-12-09T15:59:05 < BrainDamage> if he were to break the source, instead of a spot effect he'd get irradiated over the whole body
2020-12-09T15:59:13 < zyp> karlp, AAA?
2020-12-09T15:59:15 < BrainDamage> thhen he'll feel sick for sure
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2020-12-09T15:59:23 < karlp> zyp: adds accounting :)
2020-12-09T15:59:26 < zyp> ah
2020-12-09T15:59:28 < zyp> :)
2020-12-09T15:59:28 < karlp> ie, actually writing it down
2020-12-09T15:59:42 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2020-12-09T15:59:42 < karlp> it's the name of the module in switches that does radius/tacacs and so on.
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2020-12-09T16:27:35 < dongs> hmm ethernet pros
2020-12-09T16:27:42 < dongs> i'm connecting PHY to PHY on board
2020-12-09T16:27:55 < dongs> right now i just did rxP/N -> rxP/N and tx->tx.
2020-12-09T16:28:01 < dongs> this works at 10mbit, doesnt work at 100
2020-12-09T16:28:16 < dongs> i started looking and i see appnotes about that shit how to do it transformer-less
2020-12-09T16:28:28 < dongs> original transformer-patent is here: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/69/d8/78/7547218528a6f9/CN203661100U.pdf
2020-12-09T16:28:44 < dongs> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/jp/AppNotes/jp578072.pdf here's the micrel appnote
2020-12-09T16:29:03 < dongs> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/application-note/8255x-fast-ethernet-controllers-without-magnetics-appl-note.pdf and here's intel one
2020-12-09T16:29:16 < dongs> and they're all connecting rxP/N -> txP/N and txP/N -> rxP/N
2020-12-09T16:29:34 < dongs> im negroing up a board right now to try that tho its kind annoying but
2020-12-09T16:29:41 < dongs> why does 10Mbit work as-is?
2020-12-09T16:29:51 < dongs> if it really needs to connect rx-.tx
2020-12-09T16:36:57 < zyp> you mean why hook rx to tx and tx to rx?
2020-12-09T16:37:10 < dongs> yes and why it works now directly connected with 10mbit
2020-12-09T16:37:27 < zyp> because modern phys have auto-mdix
2020-12-09T16:37:38 < dongs> why doesnt it work at 100M then
2020-12-09T16:37:51 < zyp> same reason you haven't cared about crossed network cables for 10-20 years or so
2020-12-09T16:38:06 < zyp> does it work crossed at 100M?
2020-12-09T16:38:52 < dongs> i dont know, thats what is getting niggered right now
2020-12-09T16:39:18 < zyp> I figure the reason something works at 10M and not at 100M is probably completely unrelated to the crossing, and caused by the differences in modulation and how it's driven
2020-12-09T16:39:32 < zyp> since you just DC-coupled it, right?
2020-12-09T16:39:50 < dongs> right, 100M is MLT3 or whatever and 10M is .. idk wat
2020-12-09T16:39:53 < dongs> the forms look diff
2020-12-09T16:40:15 < dongs> 100M is like 3 levels , high, 0, low
2020-12-09T16:40:54 < zyp> IIRC some of the shit doesn't have full balanced outputs and relies on one leg of the transformer bouncing high when it's driving the other leg low
2020-12-09T16:41:17 < zyp> something like open drain outputs on each leg and +3.3V on the center taps
2020-12-09T16:41:27 < zyp> but I don't remember what's what
2020-12-09T16:41:40 < zyp> I read through some of the appnotes once, but I've never actually tested it
2020-12-09T16:44:05 < dongs> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/cn/AppNotes/cn586761.pdf page 5
2020-12-09T16:44:16 < dongs> they're all doign rx>tx so fuckit i guess i will just do this and fuck off
2020-12-09T16:45:06 < zyp> I don't think it's about the rx/tx, I think it's about those 50 ohm resistors and the caps
2020-12-09T16:45:11 < dongs> Right
2020-12-09T16:45:23 < dongs> 49.9R more like
2020-12-09T16:45:28 < dongs> im just gonna do that circuit
2020-12-09T16:45:35 < dongs> and NC shit if its not needed
2020-12-09T16:45:40 < dongs> or wahtever
2020-12-09T16:47:02 < zyp> different devices have different driver stages though
2020-12-09T16:47:27 < dongs> well micrel appnote says what to use
2020-12-09T16:47:32 < dongs> specific for their shit
2020-12-09T16:47:57 < dongs> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/jp/AppNotes/jp578072.pdf page 2 bottom 'without internal dc bias'
2020-12-09T16:48:24 < zyp> ah, right
2020-12-09T16:48:27 < dongs> i guess i'd need to see this allwhiner shit has 'internal dc bias' or not, or just add that C3 from figure 1 and replace with 0R if it doesnt work
2020-12-09T16:48:31 < zyp> that looks like the appnote I read
2020-12-09T16:48:44 < dongs> probably, wehn you were fucking with that KZwhatever PHY on your board
2020-12-09T16:49:44 < zyp> it's easy enough to see if it needs the DC bias or not -- just look how the center tap is hooked up in a reference schematic
2020-12-09T16:50:51 < dongs> on allwiner?
2020-12-09T16:50:58 < zyp> yeah
2020-12-09T16:51:17 < zyp> got a schematic? I can take a look
2020-12-09T16:51:37 < dongs> i need to find it, i would know right away cuz i ahd it open
2020-12-09T16:51:37 < dongs> sec
2020-12-09T16:51:45 < karlp> heh, told work colleague that "under 10x10cm is cheap pcbs"
2020-12-09T16:51:56 < karlp> so test pcb is exactly 10x10cm
2020-12-09T16:51:57 < dongs> center tap just goes to GND via .1uF
2020-12-09T16:52:08 < dongs> o wait
2020-12-09T16:52:11 < dongs> its a fucking magjack
2020-12-09T16:52:20 < dongs> hm but it has no 3V3 power
2020-12-09T16:52:24 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bcYhT.png
2020-12-09T16:52:33 < dongs> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Zhongshan-HanRun-Elec-HR911105A_C12074.pdf
2020-12-09T16:52:53 < zyp> dongs, how's pin4 and pin5 hooked up?
2020-12-09T16:52:57 < karlp> what are you doing with last years cheap china jack, not this years cheap china jack ;)
2020-12-09T16:53:10 < karlp> 911105a isn't even on their website anymore! :)
2020-12-09T16:53:45 < zyp> if pin5 is hooked to ground via caps, it got internal dc bias
2020-12-09T16:53:54 < zyp> the KSZ I used on LL board has that
2020-12-09T16:54:16 < dongs> zyp thats eaxctly how it is
2020-12-09T16:54:18 < dongs> caps to ground
2020-12-09T16:54:24 < zyp> the KSZ I got on workshit has CT hooked to 3.3V via 50ohm, i.e. external bias
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2020-12-09T16:54:39 < zyp> then you'd probably be good hooking those directly to caps
2020-12-09T16:54:55 < zyp> on the allwinner side of the caps
2020-12-09T16:56:03 < dongs> OK so i m gonna do Figure 1 from that mic appnote
2020-12-09T16:56:09 < dongs> allwhiner on left and Kz on right
2020-12-09T16:56:29 < dongs> fig1 is for receiver with internal dc biasing
2020-12-09T16:57:04 < zyp> I was thinking fig4
2020-12-09T16:57:13 < zyp> but I guess that's other direction
2020-12-09T16:59:22 < dongs> microchip still runs that lancheck thing... maybe i could just utilize that
2020-12-09T17:00:04 < dongs> have their FAE tell me wat to do
2020-12-09T17:00:16 -!- PublicWiFi [~McDonalds@unaffiliated/mcdonaldswifi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-12-09T17:01:33 < dongs> While our regular Design Check service is free, it can take up to 12–15 days for you to receive feedback on your design. Available for just $100 per case, our FAST TRACK Design Check ensures that your case will be assigned more quickly to a dedicated Design Check engineer, who will typically provide you with feedback within 3–5 working days. This service is currently only available for our LANCheck 
2020-12-09T17:01:39 < dongs> review service and only for customers located in the Americas.
2020-12-09T17:01:41 < dongs> haha
2020-12-09T17:01:48 < dongs> gotta hustle
2020-12-09T17:02:00 < dongs> i think when i last used lancheck i got reply in like a day or two max
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2020-12-09T19:54:44 < bitmask> think you can use this to mix epoxy?
2020-12-09T19:54:45 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D3SVYX5/
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2020-12-09T20:03:57 < BrainDamage> I have one that's not lithium powered, the torque is extremely poor
2020-12-09T20:05:05 < BrainDamage> you can brake it by slightly pinching the shaft with thumb and index, I really doubt it'll work for anything thicker than a mousse, I bet it'd struggle even with honey
2020-12-09T20:06:22 < BrainDamage> if you notice, the "powder blender" attachment, despite figuring a cake mix with flour suggests to only use it to blend protein shakes, which are compatively much much much more fluid
2020-12-09T20:06:56 < bitmask> hmm, the brand of pigment i was gonna buy has videos of them using one to mix it but they dont show it enough that I can see what brand it is
2020-12-09T20:07:21 < bitmask> so i cant get the specs, i guess without a vacuum pump I should stick to hand mixing anyway
2020-12-09T20:07:25 < BrainDamage> I'd suggest you to just get a hook attachment and jam it inside the chuck of an electric screwdriver or a rill
2020-12-09T20:07:46 < bitmask> yea I may try that, I can even 3d print some kind of mixer attachment
2020-12-09T20:08:09 < bitmask> that frother just seemed like a nice thing to use
2020-12-09T20:18:20 < BrainDamage> re: vacuum pump, since you only need low vacuum, have you considered using an aspirator?
2020-12-09T20:18:58 < Ultrasauce> just bend a damn coathanger into an L and stick that in the chuck
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2020-12-09T22:08:24 < zyp> Thorn, have you got your coroutine stuff published anywhere? I'm starting to get my head around how everything fits together now and looking for some inspiration on where to go from here
2020-12-09T22:15:29 < zyp> I've currently got a templated task<T> that's chaining async calls nicely and propagating back results
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2020-12-09T22:18:01 < zyp> seems to work like it should on its own, but obviously not very useful until I've added some more awaitables
2020-12-09T22:18:35 < zyp> not much point in a chain of async functions if they don't have anything to await :)
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2020-12-09T22:24:13 < Ultrasauce> so what's the backend look like, state machines for each interrupt driven peripheral and an event loop?
2020-12-09T22:24:33 < Ultrasauce> or is that what you're trying to design now
2020-12-09T22:27:41 < zyp> I figure the event loop/scheduler/whatever can just be a queue of stuff to execute; when the queue is empty it can just do wfi
2020-12-09T22:28:28 < zyp> that way, other tasks can also be added to the queue
2020-12-09T22:29:29 < zyp> e.g. my current usb poll function can just be added to the end of the queue after every poll
2020-12-09T22:30:05 < zyp> it'd work like a dumb mainloop that polls various stuff
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2020-12-09T22:32:04 < zyp> and then when an awaiter becomes ready, it'll add its awaitable's resume function to the same queue
2020-12-09T22:33:00 < zyp> awaitable would be e.g. an interrupt flag, so ISR sets the awaitable ready, which queues resumption of the awaiter
2020-12-09T22:33:30 < zyp> or a queue
2020-12-09T22:34:09 < zyp> when a queue goes from empty to non-empty, the read awaitable gets set to ready, when a queue goes from full to non-full the write awaitable gets set to ready
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2020-12-09T22:58:02 < zyp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap-BkkrRg-o
2020-12-09T22:58:04 < zyp> T-6
2020-12-09T23:00:18 < Laurenceb> shit it just blew up
2020-12-09T23:00:26 < Laurenceb>  /troll'd
2020-12-09T23:01:17 < BrainDamage> it'd be more entertaining than just another scrub
2020-12-09T23:01:45 < BrainDamage> I wonder if it'd make sense to launch them anyway in failure modes, and then get sponsors to refund the costs
2020-12-09T23:02:05 < zyp> haha
2020-12-09T23:02:17 < Laurenceb> sharship banger racing
2020-12-09T23:05:58 < Steffanx> Hows the rockoon going?
2020-12-09T23:06:10 < Steffanx> Ohno its tethered ballooning now
2020-12-09T23:06:12 < effractur> probaly srub
2020-12-09T23:06:48 < specing> It just stopped at T-2m06?
2020-12-09T23:07:13 < effractur> specing: there was an isue 
2020-12-09T23:07:19 < BrainDamage> status: unknown, they put on hold and said nothing further
2020-12-09T23:07:19 < effractur> so they are holding the countdown
2020-12-09T23:07:36 < BrainDamage> it could be just a stopgap or a scrub
2020-12-09T23:17:46 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with your keyboard effractur ;)
2020-12-09T23:17:59 < effractur> Steffanx: nothing just my brain / fingers
2020-12-09T23:20:10 < zyp> rumor has it a small plane crossed the security perimeter
2020-12-09T23:20:17 < Steffanx> Heh
2020-12-09T23:20:30 < Steffanx> englishman get out of there...
2020-12-09T23:25:14 < Steffanx> So another 15 min wait. I can do that
2020-12-09T23:25:56 < BrainDamage> probably this one https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/n7720x#26444e09
2020-12-09T23:26:04 < zyp> yeah
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2020-12-09T23:28:12 < qyx> they say 22:40 utc
2020-12-09T23:28:16 < Ultrasauce> let the dude do his drug run in peace
2020-12-09T23:28:29 < qyx> now it is 21:28, osn't it?
2020-12-09T23:28:34 < zyp> yes
2020-12-09T23:28:48 < Steffanx> Oh utc lol
2020-12-09T23:28:56 < Steffanx> How did i miss that 
2020-12-09T23:32:11 < mawk> usb is komplicated
2020-12-09T23:32:24 < zyp> nah
2020-12-09T23:32:36 < mawk> why would a cm hardfault when I enable events/irq? irq handler not set?
2020-12-09T23:32:54 < zyp> many reasons, what kind of fault is it?
2020-12-09T23:33:15 < mawk> dunno what's the initial fault
2020-12-09T23:33:19 < mawk> it ended up as double fault
2020-12-09T23:33:29 < zyp> hardfault is double fault
2020-12-09T23:33:36 < zyp> check SCB_CFSR to find original reason
2020-12-09T23:33:40 < mawk> ah
2020-12-09T23:33:45 < mawk> good idea
2020-12-09T23:33:49 < mawk> wish I could tell that to me of yesterday
2020-12-09T23:33:53 < mawk> I got angry so I scrubbed everything
2020-12-09T23:34:00 < mawk> I was trying to make compile one of nordic's example
2020-12-09T23:34:20 < mawk> then I deleted it all and decided to make my own usb code instead of using their examples/high level libraries
2020-12-09T23:34:56 < mawk> but it's a irq handler I did not write, and the code enabling eventss/irq is a library function, so assume the code is correct
2020-12-09T23:35:06 < mawk> then why would it hardfault in these conditions, irq priorities wrong?
2020-12-09T23:35:17 < zyp> nrf52?
2020-12-09T23:35:31 < mawk> irq vector not set correctly? I messed a bit with the mbr and it redirects irq or something like this
2020-12-09T23:35:33 < mawk> yes
2020-12-09T23:35:40 < zyp> did you see the usb errata?
2020-12-09T23:35:51 < mawk> I saw a lot of errata code yes
2020-12-09T23:35:54 < mawk> that was properly executed
2020-12-09T23:36:00 < mawk> and I have latest version of sdk
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--- Day changed Thu Dec 10 2020
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2020-12-10T00:52:41 < BrainDamage> hard landing
2020-12-10T00:52:53 < zyp> that'll buff right out
2020-12-10T00:54:52 < Laurenceb> not bad
2020-12-10T00:54:55 < Laurenceb> not at all bad
2020-12-10T00:54:55 < jadew> can't believe I missed that
2020-12-10T00:55:08 < Laurenceb> reignition worked, landing was off a bit
2020-12-10T00:55:17 < Laurenceb> looks crazy in flight
2020-12-10T00:55:23 < jadew> by 1 fucking minute
2020-12-10T00:55:37 < Ultrasauce> the pitch back to vertical was so fast
2020-12-10T00:55:40 < BrainDamage> yeah, probably lost control margin or timing was off
2020-12-10T00:55:47 < BrainDamage> seeing it glide was insane
2020-12-10T00:56:02 < jadew> yeah, that was cool
2020-12-10T00:56:11 < BrainDamage> then again, space shuttle engineers said even a brick can glide with sufficient speed
2020-12-10T00:56:28 < BrainDamage> the lift/drag ratio for the shuttle was like 1.2
2020-12-10T00:56:34 < Ultrasauce> one engine failed to relight for the landing
2020-12-10T00:57:35 < Laurenceb> heh the nose is all thats left
2020-12-10T00:57:44 < Laurenceb> Ultrasauce: I think thats intentional
2020-12-10T00:57:55 < jadew> at least it was a bullseye
2020-12-10T00:58:00 < Laurenceb> they shut engines off on ascent to avoid overstressing it
2020-12-10T00:58:19 < Ultrasauce> i guess its pretty damn light by the end
2020-12-10T00:58:57 < Laurenceb> yeah they shut down to one engine at end of the boost
2020-12-10T00:59:10 < Laurenceb> doubt they would want >two for landing
2020-12-10T00:59:24 < qyx> they hit the geound qquite precisely
2020-12-10T00:59:29 < BrainDamage> seeing the nozzles spread open at the apex was insane
2020-12-10T00:59:36 < Laurenceb> yeah odd
2020-12-10T00:59:44 < Laurenceb> maybe they just wasnt enough time
2020-12-10T01:00:10 < jadew> yeah the timing seemed off
2020-12-10T01:00:12 < Laurenceb> look too long to manover pre landing burn or something
2020-12-10T01:00:16 < jadew> but not by much
2020-12-10T01:00:22 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-10T01:00:40 < BrainDamage> there was also a flameout inside the protective cover
2020-12-10T01:00:54 < Laurenceb> I surprised they used two engines for landing
2020-12-10T01:00:55 < jadew> yeah, noticed that too
2020-12-10T01:00:56 < BrainDamage> the foil on the top right was consumed
2020-12-10T01:01:14 < BrainDamage> it might have damaged something and reduced control margins
2020-12-10T01:01:42 < BrainDamage> a couple of steering nozzles out, and you get your timing screwed
2020-12-10T01:03:26 < Laurenceb> actually they prob have to use two engines to get enough delta v from the header tanks
2020-12-10T01:03:32 < jadew> they probably have enough data now that they can now model it pretty well now
2020-12-10T01:03:37 < jadew> so it won't happen again
2020-12-10T01:03:52 < Laurenceb> hmm nasaspaceflight forum say an engine failed badly during landing
2020-12-10T01:04:03 < Laurenceb> not sure I believe anything on there...
2020-12-10T01:04:48 < BrainDamage> failed badly as in not igniting, or failed badly as in giving insufficient thrust?
2020-12-10T01:05:44 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-10T01:05:45 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/52397.0/1996521.jpg
2020-12-10T01:05:52 < Laurenceb> they might be right
2020-12-10T01:05:53 < Ultrasauce> the green is definitely suspicious
2020-12-10T01:06:32 < effractur> no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqCatb2oApU
2020-12-10T01:08:02 < Ultrasauce> injecting TEB for the whole duration of the burn of one engine though?
2020-12-10T01:08:31 < BrainDamage> TEB?
2020-12-10T01:09:03 < BrainDamage> if you mean ablative shielding/lining, doesn't make for a much reusable engine
2020-12-10T01:09:11 < Ultrasauce> triethyl borate
2020-12-10T01:09:36 < Ultrasauce> borane**
2020-12-10T01:10:10 < BrainDamage> jesus that molecula
2020-12-10T01:10:30 < BrainDamage> "how many nitrogens can we stick to this"
2020-12-10T01:11:36 < BrainDamage> ( it doesn't have any, it's a quote from a famous chemist )
2020-12-10T01:12:49 < BrainDamage> 3/4/4 hazard diamond, almost got full score
2020-12-10T01:14:38 < BrainDamage> perhaps they have a reserve for emergency boost and ignition, they saw the control margins failing and decided to burn it all?
2020-12-10T01:14:42 < Ultrasauce> there was a call right after liftoff 'all teams triage alarms'
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2020-12-10T01:22:27 < specing> Damn, did I miss it
2020-12-10T01:22:43 < Ultrasauce> https://youtu.be/ap-BkkrRg-o?t=6473
2020-12-10T01:27:20 < specing> Third engine looks like it got blown apart
2020-12-10T01:27:37 < specing> I'm honestly surprised it did not all explode
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2020-12-10T02:01:06 < fenugrec> how did they end up back on land, I thought they usually aimed "over water"
2020-12-10T02:01:36 < fenugrec> spacex launches are so secretive. No explanations, no chatter
2020-12-10T02:09:41 < mawk> I have a cable with this inside http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProduct.aspx?p_id=8&pcid=41
2020-12-10T02:09:45 < mawk> looks better than ftdi stuff actually
2020-12-10T02:09:52 < mawk> I should find back the source and buy more
2020-12-10T02:15:52 < jadew> is there a way of easily programming tiny qfn parts without a header on the board?
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2020-12-10T02:43:27 < dongs> https://microchipsupport.force.com/s/article/Capacitive-Coupling-for-Gigabit-Ethernet ha, ther'es alsao this
2020-12-10T02:53:08 < karlp> mawk: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb is usefull...
2020-12-10T02:56:05 < karlp> mawk: modern day prolific is meant to be completely sane and rational, but original pl230 series had serious problems with clones and poor quality that it got a horrible reputation
2020-12-10T02:56:20 < karlp> they're up to H or something now, the old a,b,c,d days were apparnetly less fun :)
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2020-12-10T02:57:22 < dongs> On chip USB 1.1 transceiver, 5V®3.3V regulator, and 12 MHz crystal oscillator
2020-12-10T02:57:28 < dongs> i didn't know 5V was a registered trademark
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2020-12-10T02:58:34 < fenugrec> I've had "fun" on old pl2302 garbage. custom baudrate weirdness, setbreak not working properly etc
2020-12-10T02:58:50 < dongs> pfft, typical lunix problems
2020-12-10T03:00:05 < fenugrec> in this instance, 100% yes. serial port on linux / bsd is pain
2020-12-10T03:02:50 < karlp> yeah, I only anecdotally know that currenthw is ok, I sitll don't actually own any :)
2020-12-10T03:04:10 < mawk> ah nice paste karlp thanks
2020-12-10T03:04:33 < mawk> linux _is_ a serial port, that's what it was coded for at first
2020-12-10T03:04:38 < mawk> linux 0.1 is a tty emulator
2020-12-10T03:04:54 < mawk> it's not that much a pain, there's a ton of cool and useful apis
2020-12-10T03:05:35 < mawk> see ioctl_tty(2), termios(3), ioctl_console(2)
2020-12-10T03:05:49 < fenugrec> mawk ... custom baudrates are garbage since day 1. Don't get me started on termios vs termios2. And why does setting " raw" mode take a bunch of different flags and ioctls
2020-12-10T03:06:11 < mawk> how would you set raw mode without a ioctl?
2020-12-10T03:06:30 < fenugrec> fopen('b') would be nice
2020-12-10T03:06:34 < mawk> also, cfmakeraw()
2020-12-10T03:06:37 < mawk> that's raw mode, done
2020-12-10T03:09:45 < karlp> discoverability: 0
2020-12-10T03:09:53 < karlp> treat everything as a file:hahah  only when we like to...
2020-12-10T03:10:15 < karlp> serial is the dark ages pit of every hack from the dawn of time
2020-12-10T03:10:52 < fenugrec> I've had a good taste of it already working on freediag, now I just link to libserialport when I need that, I am not touching that wheel again
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2020-12-10T08:58:14 < mrec> does anyone know is there a way to use the stm32 nucleo programmer part for jtag?
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2020-12-10T09:00:00 < PaulFertser> mrec: if you reflash it with CMSIS-DAP/DAPLINK , probably. But jtag needs more signals than SWD, do you plan to solder to the MCU pins directly?
2020-12-10T09:00:10 < PaulFertser> mrec: using a blue pill sounds like an easier way
2020-12-10T09:01:36 < jpa-> or you could use the stm32 nucleo main cpu
2020-12-10T09:01:54 < mrec> https://jeelabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/DSC_5257.jpg
2020-12-10T09:02:14 < mrec> I have this breakout board... and kicked off the rest of it since the chip on the slave board got fried
2020-12-10T09:02:36 < mrec> however I have a demand for a jtag debugger now and don't have one here... adding jumpwires to the pins wouldn't be a problem
2020-12-10T09:03:13 < mrec> of course I could go to the electronic store and get a jtag programmer here .. but if not needed I'd like to skip that :-)
2020-12-10T09:03:32 < mrec> PaulFertser: could that board be flashed with something jtag compatible?
2020-12-10T09:03:47 < mrec> I have a few of those nucleo boards here.
2020-12-10T09:03:56 < jpa-> what chip you need the jtag for? i.e. does software support exist for cmsis-dap on whatever programmer you aim to use?
2020-12-10T09:04:07 < mrec> for an esp32
2020-12-10T09:04:18 < mrec> (or maybe someone has a better idea)
2020-12-10T09:04:28 < mrec> esp32-s2-wroom
2020-12-10T09:04:45 < PaulFertser> mrec: have you considered trying raspberrypi bitbanging?
2020-12-10T09:05:19 < mrec> PaulFertser: nope!
2020-12-10T09:05:28 < PaulFertser> mrec: yes, of course it would need to be reflashed if you want it for jtag.
2020-12-10T09:05:57 < jpa-> https://github.com/zoobab/versaloon   is one option also
2020-12-10T09:06:25 < PaulFertser> mrec: openocd supports raspberrypi gpio for jtag
2020-12-10T09:06:41 < mrec> I have a raspberry pi here
2020-12-10T09:06:43 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/devanlai/dap42 might work as cmsis-dap.
2020-12-10T09:07:20 < PaulFertser> You'll need their openocd fork, not upstream.
2020-12-10T09:07:27 < PaulFertser> Yes, versaloon is also an option
2020-12-10T09:07:51 < mrec> I'm looking into the raspberry PI option
2020-12-10T09:08:01 < mrec> thanks!
2020-12-10T09:08:19 < PaulFertser> mrec: --enable-bcm2835gpio etc
2020-12-10T09:08:41 < PaulFertser> mrec: it'll be slower than a proper debugger but still might be useful enough
2020-12-10T09:09:03 < mrec> I'm just trying to get into the esp32 module it seems to be useful for some applications
2020-12-10T09:09:17 < mrec> so the first things will be hello world
2020-12-10T09:11:07 < PaulFertser> mrec: try with rpi, that would be the fastest way to get at least something working I guess
2020-12-10T09:14:14 < PaulFertser> mrec: and if you are considering cheap options for debugging I suggest TUMPA (non-lite). Not only useful for jtag with proper output wide voltage range buffer but also for SPI (including NOR flashes), RS-232, I2C.
2020-12-10T09:14:46 < PaulFertser> Though it sucks in certain ways too.
2020-12-10T09:15:27 < jpa-> can't you just bootload esp32 with serial?
2020-12-10T09:16:02 < jadew> Streaker, are Dalits the only poor people in India?
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2020-12-10T09:16:17 < Streaker> no.
2020-12-10T09:16:23 < mrec> PaulFertser: I had an FTDI chip here but soldered it onto a "special" QFN programmer board
2020-12-10T09:16:41 < mrec> I need to get more of them..
2020-12-10T09:16:56 < PaulFertser> mrec: jtag is more than an ft232h breakout
2020-12-10T09:17:02 < mrec> some of those chinese FTDI boards have a terrible signal integrity
2020-12-10T09:17:18 < jadew> Streaker, thanks, I was wondering if those super poor villages are Dalits only
2020-12-10T09:17:33 < jadew> (I'm watching a documentary on the caste system)
2020-12-10T09:17:41 < Streaker> ok
2020-12-10T09:17:49 < mrec> PaulFertser: what am I missing?
2020-12-10T09:18:24 < mrec> I never went down to the pinout/protocol, I just used it in the past but my adapters are 8k km far away from here :-(
2020-12-10T09:19:05 < PaulFertser> mrec: wide output voltage buffer and series termination resistors.
2020-12-10T09:20:15 < mrec> ok I'll send my wife to buy a jtag adapter :-)
2020-12-10T09:20:42 < PaulFertser> mrec: not all of them created equal, choose wiseely
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2020-12-10T10:15:09 < jpa-> jadew: is there a way to make rigol keep the cursors in same place (relative to trace) when zooming / moving a stopped trace?
2020-12-10T10:16:10 < jpa-> eh, and immediately after asking i realize that's what "track" mode does
2020-12-10T10:16:27 < zyp> glad to help
2020-12-10T10:18:17 < mawk> you should never have told you're from india Streaker 
2020-12-10T10:18:23 < mawk> see what's happening to you now
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2020-12-10T10:18:38 < mawk> you should've told you come from france, then you only have to endure Steffanx saying "je ne parle pas français"
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2020-12-10T10:41:57 < jly> How ya doing Martin, you crazy Italian prick?
2020-12-10T10:51:40 < Steffanx> Martin just left, jly
2020-12-10T10:52:14 < jly> But you, you know, you're letting Click-Clack, Ding-Dong and Charlie Chan just walk out with Miss What's-her-face. She likes you, you know? Though I don't know why!
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2020-12-10T11:06:27 < jly> who the fuck is this cunt
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2020-12-10T11:16:56 < Steffanx> Are you alright jly?
2020-12-10T11:17:31 < jly> do you know?
2020-12-10T11:27:29 < Steffanx> i forgot, sorry jly
2020-12-10T11:31:11 < jadew> mawk, why? he's got insider info. Up until now we were just speculating on what's going on over there
2020-12-10T11:32:07 < jadew> I just heard my son's teacher say "What are you doing there? Get out of bed!"
2020-12-10T11:32:13 < mawk> lol
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2020-12-10T11:33:27 < jadew> in the previous class they worked in teams of 3, and after they finished what they had to do, they started watching cartoons together...
2020-12-10T11:34:27 < Steffanx> i only speak french to you when you dump french gibberish here, mr mawk
2020-12-10T11:34:31 < jadew> they would send links from one another and decide which one to share screen
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2020-12-10T11:35:59 < mawk> you're lying Steffanx 
2020-12-10T11:36:15 < mawk> you should be proud jadew 
2020-12-10T11:36:28 < Steffanx> Im not lying mawk.
2020-12-10T11:36:32 < mawk> if one day he fucks up, just remember you could have had a son like me
2020-12-10T11:36:37 < mawk> that will make the situation instantly better
2020-12-10T11:36:40 < mawk> think of my poor mother
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2020-12-10T11:36:55 < Steffanx> Something is not lying when its your truth mawk
2020-12-10T11:37:09 < Steffanx> "your"  as in my truth
2020-12-10T11:37:20 < mawk> fgrep 'parle pas'|fgrep Steffan
2020-12-10T11:37:54 < Steffanx> 9 out of 10 times it probably was when you said someting in french
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2020-12-10T11:37:59 < Steffanx> +h
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2020-12-10T11:38:21 < Steffanx> antto got stm32 news?
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2020-12-10T13:07:42 < zyp> mawk, did you do AoC yet?
2020-12-10T13:26:10 < Steffanx> No, his boss told him he should work more and not less
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2020-12-10T13:37:12 < jadew> why is there close to no street view of india?
2020-12-10T13:38:12 < Streaker> stupid politicians decided its an invasion of privacy
2020-12-10T13:38:25 < jadew> ...
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2020-12-10T13:40:15 < jadew> guess I'll have to visit another country
2020-12-10T13:40:47 < jadew> you lost a tourist
2020-12-10T13:42:33 < jadew> same story with pakistan...
2020-12-10T13:47:44 < jadew> in Bangladesh everything seems to be under construction
2020-12-10T13:47:58 < jadew> they do have street view tho :D
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2020-12-10T13:50:58 < jadew> https://www.google.com/maps/@23.7648657,90.4128628,3a,75y,220.85h,138.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sN6TUqGQMrkj9WRi8CjyiMQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DN6TUqGQMrkj9WRi8CjyiMQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D94.11243%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
2020-12-10T13:51:07 < jadew> why do they have bars on their balconies?
2020-12-10T13:51:17 < Steffanx> Try germany, no streetview there either, jadew
2020-12-10T13:52:26 < Streaker> to deter thieves.
2020-12-10T13:52:27 < jadew> you're right...
2020-12-10T13:52:45 < jadew> Streaker, on the 4th floor?
2020-12-10T13:52:56 < Streaker> don't ask me. ask them.
2020-12-10T13:52:57 < jadew> Steffanx, must be a new development, it used to work
2020-12-10T13:53:06 < Steffanx> No
2020-12-10T13:53:52 < jadew> the 3d view is pretty good tho
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2020-12-10T14:04:29 < jadew> Vietnam is the same...
2020-12-10T14:04:44 < jadew> worst vacation ever
2020-12-10T14:14:54 < jadew> meanwhile in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL4a4HkeeUY
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2020-12-10T14:37:22 < englishman> softbank offloading boston dynamics to Hyundai
2020-12-10T14:37:50 < englishman> they make cool looking stuff but noone knows what to do with them
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2020-12-10T15:17:39 < Steffanx> Lol softbank needs money for the WeWork debacle?
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2020-12-10T15:32:58 < englishman> probably
2020-12-10T15:33:06 < englishman> not even the sale of ARM could save them
2020-12-10T15:33:31 < englishman> masayoshi-son gonna be beheaded by his arab investors
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2020-12-10T16:06:15 < karlp> heh, looking at a new board, top line of an IC says "MAX1348"  which is a legit maxim product, but.... not at all this one.
2020-12-10T16:06:37 < karlp> this one is MAX13488EE and they spread it over two lines on the markings like the  maxim weirdos they are.
2020-12-10T16:08:34 < mawk> the first 4 days zyp 
2020-12-10T16:08:48 < mawk> then I was more focused on the "advent of nRF52" puzzle
2020-12-10T16:17:51 < jpa-> karlp: heh, i have used the same IC and noticed the same weirdness :)
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2020-12-10T16:22:14 < karlp> now, manuals are on a fucking cd rom.
2020-12-10T16:22:18 < karlp> and not downloadable from the vendor.
2020-12-10T16:22:28 < karlp> fantastic futuristic germans
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2020-12-10T16:53:18 < mrec> looks like the RPI is not really suitable for Jtag.. unless you do it all yourself
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2020-12-10T18:02:43 < Steffanx> At least its not LT. They deliver the entire datasheet of some ic on an evaluation board on some shitty recycled paper 
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2020-12-10T19:00:29 < qyx> mrec: how so, I used rpi zero for SWD and everything was already made
2020-12-10T19:00:52 < mrec> for swd it should be fine :-)
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2020-12-10T19:21:23 < bitmask> first set of hydrographic film has arrived: https://i.imgur.com/g2zYhcM.png
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2020-12-10T19:31:28 < Steffanx> What is bitmask hydrographic filming?
2020-12-10T19:31:50 < bitmask> not sure yet :P 3d prints of some sort
2020-12-10T19:38:37 < Steffanx> Oh lol
2020-12-10T19:38:44 < bitmask> :P 
2020-12-10T19:38:59 < bitmask> ideas sound good and then i never have a use for them
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2020-12-10T20:21:06 < antto> Steffanx, no
2020-12-10T20:21:09 < antto> pls
2020-12-10T20:22:27 < Steffanx> poor antto
2020-12-10T20:22:34 < Steffanx> Whats up mr antto?
2020-12-10T20:22:57 < antto> nothing on-topic
2020-12-10T20:23:27 < Steffanx> Doesnt matter
2020-12-10T20:23:35 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/7ormAdk.jpeg
2020-12-10T20:23:57 < Steffanx> but what is it?
2020-12-10T20:24:15 < mawk> I don't like the round pin headers like this
2020-12-10T20:24:18 < antto> this got fabbed
2020-12-10T20:24:21 < mawk> go back to uglyland antto 
2020-12-10T20:24:29 < mawk> or put square pins
2020-12-10T20:24:47 -!- mode/##stm32 [+q *!*@serveur.io] by ChanServ
2020-12-10T20:24:47 < antto> mawk, it needs to plug into IC socket
2020-12-10T20:24:47 < Steffanx> be nice to mr antto
2020-12-10T20:24:55 < antto> pff
2020-12-10T20:25:00 -!- mode/##stm32 [-q *!*@serveur.io] by ChanServ
2020-12-10T20:25:00 < mawk> but he's not a square guy, Steffanx
2020-12-10T20:25:31 < antto> it replaces a DIP-40 chip
2020-12-10T20:25:46 < PaulFertser> Is that a choice, Steffanx ?
2020-12-10T20:26:21 < antto> cheap headers are too THICC and rape the sockets, they also don't plug at all into the fancier round-pin sockets at all
2020-12-10T20:28:21 < PaulFertser> A collet socket is much more reliable and durable.
2020-12-10T20:29:04 < antto> this device cannot turn back time and change the sockets that have been soldered into the big thing
2020-12-10T20:29:34 < mawk> https://www.arieselec.com/product/12014-pin-line-collet-socket/ this?
2020-12-10T20:29:41 < mawk> wire wrapping is still a thing apparently
2020-12-10T20:29:48 < antto> the socket is gonna be typically the cheap, very common one
2020-12-10T20:30:00 < antto> or the fancier one
2020-12-10T20:30:40 < antto> normal headers may be plugged into a cheap socket.. but then they get raped, you can no longer plug a chip
2020-12-10T20:30:46 < antto> that's not acceptaburu
2020-12-10T20:30:56 < Steffanx> What is a choice PaulFertser?
2020-12-10T20:31:03 < BrainDamage> I usee a wire wrap tool on pin regular pin headers and magnet wire
2020-12-10T20:31:08 < englishman> 20% off oshpark. MOVING20 they are moving to colorado.
2020-12-10T20:31:11 < BrainDamage> then slap a blob of solder
2020-12-10T20:31:35 < BrainDamage> te solder melts the enamel, and I have a hassle free reliable pin header connection
2020-12-10T20:31:43 < PaulFertser> Probably something like https://aliexpress.com/item/32915819056.html
2020-12-10T20:31:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: being a square guy. Or not.
2020-12-10T20:32:36 < Steffanx> Idk, did i bring that up PaulFertser?
2020-12-10T20:33:14 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: mawk brought that up, but as a response to your actions
2020-12-10T20:33:25 < antto> https://youtu.be/eP_c72IjUOY?t=2479
2020-12-10T20:35:41 < Steffanx> nah idk PaulFertser. But you have to be nice to mr antto
2020-12-10T20:35:43 < Steffanx> or he will leave.
2020-12-10T20:36:01 < antto> THAT'D BE A CATASTROPHIC LOSS..
2020-12-10T20:36:04 < Steffanx> This finnish guy and polish guy were unfriendly to mr antto and they made him leave.
2020-12-10T20:36:18 < Steffanx> Now they miss him in the 2nd AVR channel.
2020-12-10T20:36:58 < antto> as if we ain't on the same IRC network..
2020-12-10T20:37:19 < antto> as if Emil isn't on #kicad
2020-12-10T20:37:48 < antto> or do you mean the other finnish guy?
2020-12-10T20:38:07 < Steffanx> No, it was him i recall
2020-12-10T20:38:35 < Steffanx> and the young oldskool polish guy
2020-12-10T20:38:51 < antto> i see him in yet another obscure channel
2020-12-10T20:39:03 < antto> which.. i should probably part too
2020-12-10T20:39:09 < antto> who cares tho
2020-12-10T20:39:18 < antto> i should have left this channel ages ago too
2020-12-10T20:40:03 < Steffanx> No one cares really.
2020-12-10T20:40:09 < antto> eggzactly
2020-12-10T20:41:08 < antto> i do use a bunch of ST chipz but not armz
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2020-12-10T20:41:38 < antto> nor those 8bit mcus of theirs
2020-12-10T20:42:34 < antto> this one in particular was vital for that project: https://i.imgur.com/NOxdyic.png
2020-12-10T20:42:39 < antto> STA120DJ
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2020-12-10T20:49:24 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/J3HgmiL.jpg
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2020-12-10T20:57:44 < englishman> fancy
2020-12-10T20:59:36 < antto> ze cat?
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2020-12-10T21:22:38 < mawk> nrf tools install system-wide in /usr/local/lib/python3
2020-12-10T21:22:41 < mawk> which is super cool
2020-12-10T21:22:45 < mawk> but it's python 2 code
2020-12-10T21:22:54 < mawk> I hate automagic when it's not done properly
2020-12-10T21:25:04 < BrainDamage> I got the conical drill bit
2020-12-10T21:25:04 < BrainDamage> 30 frigging bucks
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2020-12-10T21:31:46 < mawk> ah finally
2020-12-10T21:31:51 < mawk> professionnal 2020 pipeline: make && nrfutil pkg generate --debug-mode --application=_build/nrf52840_xxaa.hex uart.zip && sudo nrfutil dfu  usb-serial --package=uart.zip --serial-number=FE6AC2E1DA61
2020-12-10T21:35:07 < Steffanx> 😭
2020-12-10T21:35:33 < mawk> you don't like it Steffanx ?
2020-12-10T21:35:51 < mawk> I can't flash by swd because the bootloader does checks at boot to verify if it has been tampered with or something
2020-12-10T21:35:56 < mawk> and I'm too lazy to change it
2020-12-10T21:36:04 < mawk> so I flas via usb dfu, which is fine
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2020-12-10T21:45:05 < Steffanx> Remove the bootloader? 
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2020-12-10T22:06:26 < Steffanx> What awesome nrf project do you have mr mawk?
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2020-12-10T22:41:29 < bitmask> damn, this company sent me 3 8x8" for $10 for shipping two way mirrors and they are really nice
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2020-12-10T22:42:11 < Steffanx> to put into the box with the film?
2020-12-10T22:43:02 < bitmask> nah this is unrelated, just ordered a few samples for infinity mirror projects or something :P they were only $0.95 each plus shipping so why not
2020-12-10T22:43:27 < bitmask> they are thick glass too, two are dielectric whatever that means
2020-12-10T22:43:39 < bitmask> one is a normal one, they are meant to be used to cover television screens
2020-12-10T22:43:46 < bitmask> to look like a mirror when not in use
2020-12-10T22:44:11 < bitmask> they are 5mm thick glass though
2020-12-10T22:44:28 < Steffanx> no i mean:
2020-12-10T22:44:29 < Steffanx> <bitmask> ideas sound good and then i never have a use for them
2020-12-10T22:44:46 < bitmask> oh hahaha yea
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2020-12-10T23:30:10 < mawk> Steffanx: I'm doing a yubikey
2020-12-10T23:30:22 < mawk> usb and bt stuff
2020-12-10T23:30:24 < mawk> with crypto
2020-12-10T23:30:29 < emeb_mac> more STM32H730 strangeness: calling the HAL_SD_DeInit() function sets the power down bit in the SDMMC periph and causes a bunch of bus errors to pop up.
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2020-12-10T23:31:22 < emeb_mac> same code runs fine on H743
2020-12-10T23:31:35 < mawk> not mentionned in errata?
2020-12-10T23:31:44 < emeb_mac> nothing in errata
2020-12-10T23:31:56 < mawk> maybe they'll give you some €€ if you tell them
2020-12-10T23:32:12 < mawk> make it up as a vulnerability
2020-12-10T23:32:14 < emeb_mac> more like "not our problem. go away"
2020-12-10T23:32:38 < mawk> bitmask: isolating
2020-12-10T23:33:25 < mawk> I like my bootloader Steffanx 
2020-12-10T23:33:30 < mawk> it's the safeguard against stupidity
2020-12-10T23:33:45 < mawk> if I flash the wrong application then default voltage level is 1.8V
2020-12-10T23:33:55 < mawk> and I'd need to get a level shifter to program it back again to something good
2020-12-10T23:33:59 < mawk> so I leave the bl on it as a safety
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2020-12-10T23:54:52 < kakium69> hello nigth crew
2020-12-10T23:55:12 < Steffanx> Goooday Sir
2020-12-10T23:55:19 < Steffanx> Is kakimir alright, do you know?
2020-12-10T23:55:29 < kakium69> no
2020-12-10T23:55:33 < kakium69> he ded
2020-12-10T23:56:41 < Steffanx> Damn. Choked on a bit of snus?
2020-12-10T23:58:57 < kakium69> ran out of snus
2020-12-10T23:59:10 < kakium69> died instantly
2020-12-10T23:59:11 < qyx> get some fish
--- Day changed Fri Dec 11 2020
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2020-12-11T00:42:57 < jadew> https://thetexan.news/texas-state-rep-proposes-bill-to-allow-texans-to-vote-on-secession/
2020-12-11T00:43:02 < jadew> texit
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2020-12-11T00:50:47 < karlp> heh, called it :)
2020-12-11T00:51:15 < karlp> cali could but won't, texas ... pprobably can't, but will try anyway
2020-12-11T00:52:39 < zyp> they do that every election
2020-12-11T00:57:18 < jadew> they sued pennsylvannia over the elections and 17 other states join in :)
2020-12-11T00:57:50 < jadew> the fear is that more states will follow
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2020-12-11T00:58:03 < jadew> (with the secession idea)
2020-12-11T00:58:43 < karlp> circling the drain...
2020-12-11T01:15:06 < zyp> karlp, how do you like my C++isms today? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/SzN9y
2020-12-11T01:15:23 < zyp> today I left all the parts you're not supposed to see out of the paste :)
2020-12-11T01:15:45 < mawk> nice use of registers
2020-12-11T01:16:37 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WSnWU.png
2020-12-11T01:17:09 < zyp> ignore the malloc/frees, I haven't really done much about the memory management yet, so that's preliminary
2020-12-11T01:22:17 < zyp> on one hand I'm not super happy about the need for a heap, but on the other hand I guess that if it's only ever used with RAII patterns (i.e. no explicit new/deletes), it'll actually be less error prone than thread stacks
2020-12-11T01:24:30 < zyp> then there's the static analysis and preallocation stuff that thorn talked about, but I'm worried that going that route would impose reentrancy limitations
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2020-12-11T01:27:38 < mawk> isn't RAII allocated on stack?
2020-12-11T01:27:41 < mawk> usually
2020-12-11T01:29:50 < zyp> one of the ideas in RAII is that stuff is cleaned up automatically when it goes out of context
2020-12-11T01:30:21 < zyp> it doesn't matter whether it's a context on the stack or a heap allocation that's getting deleted
2020-12-11T01:31:02 < zyp> and it chains
2020-12-11T01:31:38 < zyp> e.g. if you have a smartpointer on the stack and return, the destructor of the smart pointer would delete the heap object it's pointing to, which would further destruct the contents in that object, which might also use RAII to clean up
2020-12-11T01:36:16 < zyp> in the same manner, the coroutine frame of a task should get cleaned up when the task is done
2020-12-11T01:37:58 < zyp> for a void task it can be cleaned up as soon as it does a co_return, for a task returning a value it needs to stick around until the return value has been passed to the caller
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2020-12-11T02:55:28 < jly> hey mate
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2020-12-11T04:04:03 < machinehum> Is there any good reason to keep that -Wshadow on ?
2020-12-11T04:04:39 < machinehum> Because it seems really annyoing, espicially when you have members on a class that are named the same as arguments in the ctor
2020-12-11T04:04:58 < machinehum> And you're just stuffing them in after the :
2020-12-11T04:12:10 < GenTooMan> hmm any advice for using a CDC USB device mode on an STM32L476RG device?
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2020-12-11T04:32:16 < jly> texas
2020-12-11T04:32:20 < jly> I NEED GEAR
2020-12-11T04:45:56 < aandrew> hm I may have fucked myself
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2020-12-11T04:46:26 < aandrew> stm32h757 (dual core) eval board, I connected with onboard stlinkv3 and gated the cm7 boot option, now it can't connect, and jlink tries and fails as well
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2020-12-11T04:58:35 < emeb_mac> bricking an eval board is quite an accomplishment
2020-12-11T04:58:55 < aandrew> indeed
2020-12-11T04:59:55 < aandrew> JLink to the rescue
2020-12-11T05:00:07 < aandrew> JLinkSTM32 could reset the option bytes and recover
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2020-12-11T05:00:52 < emeb_mac> can't stlink-util do that too?
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2020-12-11T05:34:53 < aandrew> it didn't seem to want to
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2020-12-11T09:27:41 < mawk> I found the most robust way to talk to openocd from a script
2020-12-11T09:29:07 < mawk> printf 'command\x1a' | nc -q1 127.0.0.1 6666 | tr -d '\32'; printf '\n'
2020-12-11T09:29:23 < mawk> instead of using the ugly telnet port
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2020-12-11T11:58:26 < karlp> what problems were you having that this is solving?
2020-12-11T12:14:27 < karlp> meh, I like having red pcbs for protos, jlc does red for "free"
2020-12-11T12:14:34 < karlp> but if you want lead free, it's no longer free
2020-12-11T12:19:43 < jpa-> does it matter for protos?
2020-12-11T12:20:21 < jpa-> meh, why are all tiny bottom adjust smd potentiometers like TC33B and EVM-1U series discontinued
2020-12-11T12:28:52 < zyp> karlp, got a project that involves implementing a modbus tcp server, is there any gotchas I should watch out for?
2020-12-11T12:29:37 < karlp> notthing particular?
2020-12-11T12:29:57 < karlp> some servers will use or not use the unit id field, 
2020-12-11T12:30:28 < zyp> then I guess there's only the 0-based or 1-based addrs to watch out for
2020-12-11T12:30:40 < karlp> well, you're the server, so you decide how you want to handle it :)
2020-12-11T12:31:02 < karlp> libmodbus (if youð're using that) will give you 0 based out of the box,
2020-12-11T12:31:20 < zyp> yeah, but req spec has a list of registers the client expects to see
2020-12-11T12:31:23 < karlp> or are you going to go all c++9000 coroutines and do it yourself?
2020-12-11T12:31:39 < karlp> yoiu're faking/replacing something existing? 
2020-12-11T12:31:52 < zyp> was thinking python actually, it's gonna run on an imx6ul or something
2020-12-11T12:31:57 < karlp> _Ideally_ you can get a dump7trace or access to it
2020-12-11T12:32:06 < karlp> yeah, I've got a bunch of pymodbus tcp fake devices, mocking real ones.
2020-12-11T12:32:08 < karlp> one tick.
2020-12-11T12:33:59 < zyp> no, I got pulled into a project where they have already specced out an interface with their client
2020-12-11T12:34:01 < karlp> don't think there's anything here that really needs to be considered "private" https://paste.centos.org/view/812e3258
2020-12-11T12:34:45 < karlp> the only "trick" there is that I create new values for the next read by hooking the getValues() calls, but it's otherwise mostly just plain pymodbus
2020-12-11T12:35:09 < karlp> you may prefer to have Single=true, and just have one context for the tcp address,
2020-12-11T12:35:17 < karlp> I use unit ids to have multiple devices,
2020-12-11T12:35:49 < zyp> okay, great, that looks as simple as I were hoping
2020-12-11T12:35:55 < karlp> are you planning on using any funky or private functions?
2020-12-11T12:36:20 < zyp> idk
2020-12-11T12:36:20 < karlp> it gets curly if people are doing things like changing contents depending on acess sizes, but that's entirely up to you and your apis.
2020-12-11T12:37:00 < karlp> liek line 105 there handles some "design" issues with carlo gavazzi's maps
2020-12-11T12:37:10 < zyp> my stuff is probably simpler than that, probably no need for register merging for >16bit or anything
2020-12-11T12:37:18 < karlp> no problems then :)
2020-12-11T12:38:00 < zyp> I kinda just need to get read and write callbacks
2020-12-11T12:38:24 < karlp> that particular paste will have issues on current stock pymodbus, it has a patch in it for function code 17, just fyi if you try and just run that as is.
2020-12-11T12:39:01 < zyp> I assume pymodbus will also accept multiple connections simultaneously out of the box?
2020-12-11T12:39:14 < zyp> (req spec says I need to support 3)
2020-12-11T12:39:18 < karlp> I believe so.
2020-12-11T12:39:30 < karlp> there's a choice of sync/async blah server modules too
2020-12-11T12:40:12 < zyp> yeah, IIRC I dicked around with asyncio client when I were messing around with my HVAC stuff
2020-12-11T12:40:29 < karlp> for my uses, single threaded but still allowing teh connections counts, but if you want threads spun up to do truly "simultaneous" you may have to look mor eclosely
2020-12-11T12:40:50 < zyp> I'd rather not do threads
2020-12-11T12:41:12 < zyp> might want to do asyncio depending on how the rest of the system is gonna look
2020-12-11T12:42:42 < zyp> I haven't gotten more than a brief idea of how the downstream communication is gonna look yet
2020-12-11T12:43:23 < zyp> my client specs the downstream stuff and their client specs the upstream stuff, so naturally they want to get the latter sorted first
2020-12-11T13:00:29 < karlp> jpa-: no, I just went with green.  but yeah, I don't wnat to support continued lead use.
2020-12-11T13:06:10 < jpa-> it's kinda silly how they still do HASL with lead, seems like there is not much benefit compared to non-lead - it's not like the finely tuned 60-40 lead alloy would be thrown off if it is pasted on top of RoHS HASL
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2020-12-11T13:54:42 < englishman> cost maybe
2020-12-11T13:55:40 < englishman> or maybe they use shit rohs hasl and it's too terrible to work with for some people
2020-12-11T13:56:41 < karlp> $2 for pcsb, $1 to lead-free hasl. $$10 for shipping or somethign, I'll have less lead in the world thanks.
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2020-12-11T13:57:04 < englishman> oshpark has 20% off fyi
2020-12-11T13:57:12 < englishman> they are moving to Colorado
2020-12-11T13:57:26 < karlp> oshpark is way to $$ for euro people, and especially psueod euro people like me.
2020-12-11T13:57:35 < englishman> oh well
2020-12-11T13:58:51 < effractur> yes like jlcpcb is a lot cheaper right?
2020-12-11T13:59:22 < karlp> heh, uploaded to oshpark, "no silk found"
2020-12-11T13:59:26 < karlp> ok boys...
2020-12-11T13:59:47 < karlp> We detected a 2 layer board of 3.94 x 2.37 inches (100.1 x 60.1mm)
2020-12-11T13:59:49 < karlp> 3 boards will cost $46.60 
2020-12-11T13:59:52 < karlp> before shipping...
2020-12-11T14:00:08 < karlp> it's 100x60 as far as jlcpcb is concerned.
2020-12-11T14:00:13 < karlp> so yeah, fuck oshpark
2020-12-11T14:00:15 < srk> :D lol
2020-12-11T14:01:04 < srk> someone uses ceil instead of floor
2020-12-11T14:04:28 < englishman> ouch
2020-12-11T14:05:26 < effractur> but oshspark does default the gold finish right?
2020-12-11T14:05:33 < effractur> so then they are somewhat onpar with jlcpcb
2020-12-11T14:10:48 < karlp> aisler is €30 euro for same project, and because shipping is "free" icelandic customes will assign a value to it anyway and charge us tax on the assumed shipping cost.
2020-12-11T14:11:07 < zyp> icelandic customs or DHL?
2020-12-11T14:12:03 < zyp> same has happened to me once or twice, but only with DHL
2020-12-11T14:12:52 < karlp> icelandic customs.
2020-12-11T14:13:02 < karlp> I complained to aisler about it, got no response.
2020-12-11T14:13:16 < karlp> they like the image of "shipping is free"
2020-12-11T14:13:45 < karlp> but it would literealyl be cheaper for me if they charged $€25+€5, isntead of €29+0
2020-12-11T14:13:48 < zyp> it's fucking ridiculous, free shipping means shipping is baked into the product price
2020-12-11T14:13:57 < karlp> I know. tell customs that.
2020-12-11T14:14:03 < karlp> they live in their own world
2020-12-11T14:14:38 < zyp> but are you dealing with customs directly?
2020-12-11T14:15:22 < zyp> here the transport companies are calculating and charging the import taxes on behalf of the customs, so the treatment you get depends on which transporter you use
2020-12-11T14:15:54 < karlp> no, we're nto dealing with customs directly, because we'r enot allowed.
2020-12-11T14:16:12 < karlp> and in 99% of purchases I can't choose the local transport company
2020-12-11T14:18:39 < zyp> I complained to DHL and got the reply that «you're required to pay VAT of the shipping cost as well, so when the sender forgot to declare it, we have to estimate it»
2020-12-11T14:19:16 < zyp> but they didn't forget, it was included in the total
2020-12-11T14:19:44 < zyp> and DHL is the only company here that I've ever had that issue with
2020-12-11T14:20:01 < karlp> we get it with all of them as far as I can tell.
2020-12-11T14:20:09 < karlp> only difference is the dhl guy is nice and knows us.
2020-12-11T14:20:23 < karlp> and the fedex people are different every time and always rude.
2020-12-11T14:20:27 < karlp> ups is in between.
2020-12-11T14:20:32 < karlp> costs are all equivalent
2020-12-11T14:20:44 < zyp> when I'm getting something from digikey/mouser with free UPS shipping, I've never had an issue
2020-12-11T14:20:58 < zyp> hehe
2020-12-11T14:21:09 < karlp> aisler still claims "no need for a basket, we'll batch shipping" which is fuckign lies.
2020-12-11T14:21:33 < zyp> both ups and fedex are using the national mail company for last mile delivery
2020-12-11T14:21:59 < zyp> dhl does their own because they have a warehouse nearby
2020-12-11T14:22:37 < zyp> price and delivery wise there's no significant difference, but I hate DHL customer support
2020-12-11T14:23:09 < qyx> in the eu..
2020-12-11T14:25:14 < karlp> this looks nice though: https://aisler.net/help/the-aisler-way/rapid-registration-add-on
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2020-12-11T15:13:46 < mawk> BrainDamage: when is x^y greater than y^x ? both are positive reals
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2020-12-11T15:19:29 < BrainDamage> x^y=y^x  -> ln(x^y) = ln(y^x) ->  y ln(x) = x ln(y) -> logy(x) =x/y
2020-12-11T15:19:56 < dongs> nice, microchip support delivers
2020-12-11T15:20:03 < dongs> pretty quick turnaround, he even drew a schematic for me
2020-12-11T15:21:00 < mawk> that's not a closed answer BrainDamage 
2020-12-11T15:21:28 < BrainDamage> exponentiate by y both
2020-12-11T15:21:31 < dongs> < jpa-> meh, why are all tiny bottom adjust smd potentiometers like TC33B and EVM-1U series discontinued
2020-12-11T15:21:40 < dongs> what do you mean discontinued, there's probably millions of chinese clones
2020-12-11T15:22:05 < dongs>  < karlp> so yeah, fuck oshpark
2020-12-11T15:22:09 < dongs> oshpark is still in business?
2020-12-11T15:22:22 < dongs> why would anyone use their shit when china shit is literally 24h turnaround
2020-12-11T15:22:24 < mawk> then make an infinite power tower BrainDamage ?
2020-12-11T15:22:26 < BrainDamage> so there's y^logy(x) = y^(x/y)
2020-12-11T15:22:37 < zyp> dongs, cool, what did they say?
2020-12-11T15:22:44 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-12-11T15:22:49 < mawk> x = Y^Y^Y^Y^... with Y = y^(1/y)
2020-12-11T15:22:54 < zyp> dongs, caps and pullups on KSZ side only?
2020-12-11T15:22:58 < BrainDamage> it'll end up with e sommewhere
2020-12-11T15:23:10 < BrainDamage> and a 1 somewhere else
2020-12-11T15:23:22 < mawk> when you do it analytically you end up with the lambert W
2020-12-11T15:23:22 < dongs> zyp, https://i.imgur.com/rtw9xM6.png Regarding the connection between the KSZ8863 and Allwinner's PHY capacitive coupling must be done as shown in the following figure.
2020-12-11T15:23:27 < dongs> It is recommended to make some link configurations
2020-12-11T15:23:27 < dongs> when using capacitive coupling between two devices. Please find those recommendations as below
2020-12-11T15:23:30 < dongs> 1. Disable auto-negotiation and force to a known speed and duplex setting.
2020-12-11T15:23:32 < dongs> 2. As the PHY's are already connected in a straight manner you need to enable MDI on the side (i.e., either on KSZ8863 or Allwinner H3 side) and you need to enable MDI-X on the other side. Example: Enable MDI on KSZ8863 and MDI-X on H3 for proper communication.
2020-12-11T15:24:14 < mawk> if you can put it in the form Xe^X = Y, then X = W(Y)
2020-12-11T15:24:38 < karlp> dongs: so, mchp, any solutions or changes, or just "put these pullups on it all, and wire tx<->rx and disable autoneg" ?
2020-12-11T15:24:49 < zyp> dongs, MDI/MDI-X matters for RX/RX vs RX/TX
2020-12-11T15:25:02  * karlp decides to keep reading instead...
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2020-12-11T15:29:00 < zyp> dongs, hmm, that schematic actually looks wrong to me
2020-12-11T15:30:12 < zyp> checked the datasheet for the KSZ8863 and it still looks wrong
2020-12-11T15:31:57 < zyp> I'd expect the resistors to be wired directly to 3.3V, not to GND via a cap
2020-12-11T15:32:05 < dongs> their KSZ8863RLL-Hardware-Design-Checklist-00003048A.pdf shows to use termination like that.
2020-12-11T15:32:09 < dongs> figure 4-2
2020-12-11T15:32:22 < zyp> looking
2020-12-11T15:32:55 < zyp> yeah, but TCT is connected to VDDA_3.3
2020-12-11T15:32:58 < dongs> right.
2020-12-11T15:33:17 < dongs> should i question him
2020-12-11T15:33:20 < dongs> and ask to confirm,
2020-12-11T15:33:32 < dongs> whether this is from an existing tested design or thats what he thinks it should be
2020-12-11T15:33:50 < zyp> my understanding is that the drivers are open drain or some shit, so they only drive low and source power through that center tap
2020-12-11T15:34:10 < zyp> so when you're taking out the transformer, you need to replace it with pullups to 3.3
2020-12-11T15:34:11 < dongs> no thats not the case, they're "internally biased to 3.3V"
2020-12-11T15:34:29 < dongs> according to that appnote we were looking at couple days ago about cacitative coupling shit
2020-12-11T15:35:02 < zyp> reconfirm that
2020-12-11T15:35:17 < dongs> oh wait, ... that pdf says external biasing
2020-12-11T15:35:24 < dongs> ANLAN120
2020-12-11T15:35:26 < dongs> k, lemme ask
2020-12-11T15:35:40 < zyp> yeah, if they were internally biased, TCT could just be AC-coupled to GND
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2020-12-11T15:41:56 < dongs> ok blogged it out let's ee
2020-12-11T15:42:05 < dongs> this is faster than their lancheck and does the same thing anyway :p
2020-12-11T15:42:13 < dongs> (and for free)
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2020-12-11T15:50:05 < dongs> karlp: thats teh solution, the pic I posted + disabling AN.
2020-12-11T15:50:22 < dongs> its actually easy to disable autoneg on that port, i just need to pulldown one pin since its a boot-time strap
2020-12-11T15:50:41 < dongs> the other pins are IPU so it will auto-force 100M and FD
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2020-12-11T15:55:55 < englishman> dongs: oshpark is moving into a brand new 5000sqft building they bought so they are still doing something.
2020-12-11T16:04:39 < dongs> lol
2020-12-11T16:04:42 < dongs> what do they do again?
2020-12-11T16:04:45 < dongs> MAKE:R pcbs?
2020-12-11T16:07:02 < mawk> $40/pc make:r pcb yes
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2020-12-11T16:27:49 < mawk> https://youtu.be/cdIEbATELe4
2020-12-11T16:31:05 < karlp> they're higher spec than default china, but not by mmuch,
2020-12-11T16:31:16 < karlp> aisler is definitely cheaper than osh for same quality.
2020-12-11T16:32:14 < englishman> sparkfun has 150 employees, aidsfruit 100
2020-12-11T16:32:22 < englishman> make:rs have lots of money
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2020-12-11T16:35:15 < jpa-> dongs: i haven't found clones of bottom-adjust trimmers; plenty of top-adjust models of course
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2020-12-11T16:42:18  * Mangy_Dog cries
2020-12-11T16:43:02 < Mangy_Dog> i think i have brain damage... or some kinda of degenerative problem with the grey matter.... im coming back to my tricorder project after about a month break from it.... and im super super struggling to just get started and into the mindset to work
2020-12-11T16:43:10 < Mangy_Dog> its like i have tons of mental blocks to just starting
2020-12-11T16:43:27 < jpa-> isn't that like 100% normal?
2020-12-11T16:43:44 < jpa-> maybe it wasn't worth doing after all
2020-12-11T16:43:49 < Mangy_Dog> no it really is
2020-12-11T16:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> i want to do it
2020-12-11T16:43:55 < Mangy_Dog> its just starting is sooooo difficulkt
2020-12-11T16:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> also i need to get it done as I have two buyers
2020-12-11T16:44:50 < mawk> I have that all the time Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-11T16:44:54 < mawk> I'm pretty sure my brain is intact
2020-12-11T16:45:05 < mawk> it's just called chronic laziness
2020-12-11T16:45:48 < mawk> I will probably be late to my own wedding because of that 
2020-12-11T16:45:52 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-12-11T16:46:01 < jpa-> mawk's getting married? with steffie?
2020-12-11T16:46:06 < mawk> lol no
2020-12-11T16:46:12 < mawk> hypothetical wedding in the future
2020-12-11T16:46:15 < mawk> I don't know with who yet
2020-12-11T16:53:28 < zyp> what's wrong with steffie?
2020-12-11T16:54:27 < englishman> ^
2020-12-11T16:54:37 < englishman> certainly the sexiest chatter
2020-12-11T16:54:51 < englishman> has a cat
2020-12-11T16:54:54 < englishman> what else do you want
2020-12-11T17:02:08 < Steffanx> The only man i would marry is jpa- 
2020-12-11T17:05:01 < Steffanx> jpa- has a parrot. It can meow too
2020-12-11T17:07:23 < jpa-> btw, when will steffie post cat pics?
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2020-12-11T17:11:12 < Steffanx> Try telegra.
2020-12-11T17:11:15 < Steffanx> m
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2020-12-11T18:03:16 < Steffanx> Enjoy, jpa-  http://imgur.com/a/KRkHeer
2020-12-11T18:05:25 < Steffanx> One more http://imgur.com/a/yr5wb1p
2020-12-11T18:06:28 < mawk> your cat isn't white enough
2020-12-11T18:06:42 < jpa-> that's cute
2020-12-11T18:06:53 < jpa-> no wonder mawk wants to move in with you
2020-12-11T18:08:02 < Steffanx> He does?
2020-12-11T18:10:21 < mawk> only if you have a white cat Steffanx 
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2020-12-11T18:49:28 < bitmask> wheres muh stannous chloride
2020-12-11T18:59:32 < Steffanx> No white cats for me, mawk
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2020-12-11T19:32:20 < englishman> there's this project where the output of a MCP1252T voltage doubler (2->4V) is fed to a TPS61222 booster (5V output)
2020-12-11T19:32:24 < englishman> 25% of boards don't start up.
2020-12-11T19:32:31 < englishman> Y5V caps everywhere.
2020-12-11T19:32:39 < englishman> guess what the fix was
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2020-12-11T19:59:52 < karlp> relace with x5r?
2020-12-11T20:04:53 < aandrew> that would be my guess too
2020-12-11T20:10:18 < jpa-> replace with transformer based dc-dc, as they are usually more efficient for such large voltage ratios?
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2020-12-11T20:15:27 < mawk> removing the voltage doubler
2020-12-11T20:15:38 < mawk> and feeding to boost directly
2020-12-11T20:15:39 < Streaker> https://www.niccomp.com/resource/files/ceramic/VoltageCoefficientofCapacitors-032012-R1.pdf
2020-12-11T20:16:46 < Streaker> 5% change in capacitance per volt
2020-12-11T20:17:52 < Streaker> fix was to use a lower voltage capacitor?
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2020-12-11T20:30:04 < karlp> what?
2020-12-11T20:30:50 < karlp> how would lower voltage work?
2020-12-11T20:31:59 < Streaker> a 10uF 6V rated capacitor, operated at 4V would be 6uF, a 10uF 4V rated capacitor would be 10uF.
2020-12-11T20:32:21 < karlp> that's.... not how it works..
2020-12-11T20:32:45 < Streaker> oh. where did I go wrong?
2020-12-11T20:32:56 < karlp> you're reading the charts backwards...
2020-12-11T20:33:25 < karlp> note how at lower voltages it has less loss, it has more loss as it goes _up_ towards the rated voltage.
2020-12-11T20:34:56 < karlp> I'm guess NIC sells somethign other than mlccs, given how pessimistic they are, that's a farrrr more pessimistic report than the ones from kemet for instance
2020-12-11T20:35:50 < aandrew> Streaker: yes - MLCCs have crazy voltage bias derating primarily because the exotic dielectrics that get you megaF at megaV have some fucked characteristics
2020-12-11T20:46:02 < Streaker> maybe every manufacturer has their own composition for each of those grades. so X7R from NIC has a different voltage characteristic than X7R from Kemet.
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2020-12-11T21:10:10 < mawk> q
2020-12-11T21:13:02 < mawk> oops
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2020-12-11T21:19:04 < aandrew> Streaker: they do, but they all generally follow the same curve. If the actual capacitance is important, you need to contact the mfg to get their curves
2020-12-11T21:22:57 < Mangy_Dog> hmm well i got the i2c cap touch chip working with a modifide library that uses softwire..... but i much prefer to use hardware i2c so its not just wasting cycles
2020-12-11T21:25:13 < mawk> I improved my coding cycle Steffanx are you proud of me?
2020-12-11T21:25:53 < mawk> make -j8 && ./generate_settings.sh settings.hex && mergehex -m _build/nrf52840_xxaa.hex settings.hex -o uart.hex && ./flash.sh uart.hex
2020-12-11T21:26:04 < mawk> now I can do it via swd, by writing the correct checksum in flash
2020-12-11T21:29:18 < mawk> with a cute flash.py https://paste.serveur.io/s54rYcbI.sh
2020-12-11T21:30:35 < t3st3r> <Streaker> a 10uF 6V rated capacitor, operated at 4V would be 6uF <- goes even worse for high-capacity and esp small ones.
2020-12-11T21:39:34 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2020-12-11T21:58:24 < machinehum> How do you pass more than one argument into a task in FreeRTOS?
2020-12-11T21:58:42 < machinehum> Do I have to make an array of pointers or something...?
2020-12-11T21:59:38 < Steffanx> pass a struct?
2020-12-11T22:04:42 < machinehum> Right
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2020-12-11T22:23:44 < Steffanx> But globals is the way to go machinehum. Use your C++ magic.
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2020-12-11T22:35:52 < machinehum> heh
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2020-12-11T22:40:01 < englishman> mawk: yes, that is the fix for next PCB spin, unfortunately it was done this way for reasons that are no longer applicable and 25% of boards have to be fixed
2020-12-11T22:44:33 < zyp> fun
2020-12-11T22:44:40 < englishman> I don't think the problem is related to the y5v temp curve, but due to y5v caps having +80% tolerance
2020-12-11T22:45:13 < englishman> so the doubler pump never starts
2020-12-11T22:45:25 < zyp> pump better
2020-12-11T22:45:37 < englishman> yes sir
2020-12-11T22:45:57 < zyp> thanks
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2020-12-11T22:46:48 < mawk> >globals are the ways to go
2020-12-11T22:46:52 < mawk> go away Steffanx 
2020-12-11T22:46:57 < mawk> and admire my flash.py please
2020-12-11T22:50:18 < zyp> mawk, how's aoc going?
2020-12-11T22:54:34 < Steffanx> He didnt start yetr
2020-12-11T22:55:29 < Steffanx> t
2020-12-11T22:55:29 < Steffanx> Hows AoC going zyp?
2020-12-11T22:56:23 < zyp> done everything so far
2020-12-11T22:57:58 < mawk> better openocd script: https://paste.serveur.io/4okP8xxY.py
2020-12-11T22:58:05 < mawk> to call openocd from any kind of script or whatever
2020-12-11T22:58:08 < mawk> in the most robust manner
2020-12-11T22:58:17 < mawk> just did first 4 days zyp 
2020-12-11T22:58:51 < zyp> ah, the oneliner tasks
2020-12-11T22:59:57 < mawk> well I found first 4 days exercises a bit annoying
2020-12-11T23:02:48 < zyp> then do the interesting ones
2020-12-11T23:04:12 < zyp> the problem with several of the early tasks is that while they are simple by themselves, you have to spend effort on tedious input parsing
2020-12-11T23:04:25 < zyp> especially the day 4 one
2020-12-11T23:06:27 < mawk> parsing was always oneliners
2020-12-11T23:06:38 < mawk> hmm yeah day 4 was annoying though
2020-12-11T23:06:57 < mawk> re.split(r'[\n ]') ftw
2020-12-11T23:07:00 < zyp> 4 was probably the most annoying of them all so far
2020-12-11T23:07:04 < mawk> ah 
2020-12-11T23:07:07 < mawk> I'll try the others then
2020-12-11T23:07:40 < zyp> I mean, fair, it was not the parsing that was annoying, it was all the various rules
2020-12-11T23:08:11 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6sHUj <- everything was fine until the second half
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2020-12-11T23:38:39 < Steffanx> .
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--- Day changed Sat Dec 12 2020
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2020-12-12T00:06:14 < mawk> you liked my openocd.py Steffanx ????
2020-12-12T00:06:24 < karlp> mawk: did you ever say what your problem was with the telnet interface?
2020-12-12T00:06:32 < karlp> I eman, if you'ðre doing rpc, rpc, but...
2020-12-12T00:06:51 < mawk> capturing the output is hard with telnet
2020-12-12T00:06:59 < karlp> if you need it...
2020-12-12T00:07:04 < mawk> you cannot really split on \r\n because you don't know if it's the end or not
2020-12-12T00:07:08 < mawk> so you don't capture the output and it's ugly
2020-12-12T00:07:12 < karlp> I see you actually gve up on shell scripting the rpc interface and have turned to python though
2020-12-12T00:07:23 < mawk> yeah so I can properly split on \x1a
2020-12-12T00:07:48 < mawk> and then by wrapping all commands with capture I get the output
2020-12-12T00:07:56 < mawk> and I don't have to go look in the openocd terminal tab to know what happened
2020-12-12T00:08:16 < karlp> as if you'd switch to python, have arguments, and not actually use argparse and allow changing host...
2020-12-12T00:08:23 < karlp> imagine only having one openocd intstance ...
2020-12-12T00:18:35 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/vIcTqf5I.py
2020-12-12T00:19:05  * karlp hi5s mawk
2020-12-12T00:19:09 < mawk> lol
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2020-12-12T01:09:20 < machinehum> What's the syntax if I want menu on the heap not stack https://pastebin.com/ZqJ8n4A5
2020-12-12T01:16:25 < mawk> use malloc/new
2020-12-12T01:17:08 < mawk> Cmd **menu = new (*Cmd)[4];
2020-12-12T01:17:10 < mawk> I think like this machinehum 
2020-12-12T01:18:07 < qyx> not the answer, but I would recommend decoupling the command tree from the interface
2020-12-12T01:18:08 < mawk> then menu[0] = new HelloCmd("hello", uart1); and so on
2020-12-12T01:19:25 < qyx> quite common requirement is to provide the same config interface over both local uart and some remote (eg. telnet) channel
2020-12-12T01:20:43 < qyx> see MVC pattern for example
2020-12-12T01:23:00 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2020-12-12T01:23:13 < qyx> and another recommendation from real life, you want the menu as const data
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2020-12-12T01:58:02 < mawk> nrf is more and more annoying
2020-12-12T01:58:08 < mawk> I regret ST HAL
2020-12-12T01:58:45 < mawk> they have tons of seemingly cool libraries but no docs at all on how to use them, like which .c to compile with, which directories to add to -I, and most importantly which defines are needed to make the code work
2020-12-12T01:59:04 < mawk> so I have to manually diff the 4000 lines sdk-config.h bullshit to know what I should enable
2020-12-12T01:59:19 < mawk> and of course when at the end it still doesn't work I have no idea what to try next
2020-12-12T01:59:29 < ds2> what did nrf do?
2020-12-12T01:59:40 < mawk> cross the road?
2020-12-12T02:00:08 < ds2> that problem was there from day one... took forever to figure out how to get their examples going
2020-12-12T02:00:34 < mawk> now to fix the issue they had a brilliant idea
2020-12-12T02:00:42 < mawk> make a new sdk, don't deprecate the old one though
2020-12-12T02:00:48 < mawk> funnier to let people choose by themselves
2020-12-12T02:00:58 < mawk> so now there's nrf5 sdk and nrf connect sdk
2020-12-12T02:01:25 < ds2> what's the nrf connect sdk?
2020-12-12T02:01:34 < mawk> a new sdk they made
2020-12-12T02:01:39 < mawk> especially for wireless low power stuff
2020-12-12T02:01:46 < mawk> and it works with the zephyr rtos
2020-12-12T02:01:54 < mawk> and nrf52840 and a few others
2020-12-12T02:02:02 < mawk> so, modern shiny code
2020-12-12T02:02:04 < ds2> that's not for the ant crap is it?
2020-12-12T02:02:12 < mawk> probably it's for ant too
2020-12-12T02:02:26 < mawk> but also bt
2020-12-12T02:02:44 < ds2> does it still use the soft device?
2020-12-12T02:02:53 < mawk> I guess yeah
2020-12-12T02:02:59 < mawk> better than use radio directly
2020-12-12T02:03:11 < ds2> i prefer to use the radio directly
2020-12-12T02:03:13 < mawk> especially when it's certified IP or stuff like that
2020-12-12T02:03:19 < ds2> easier to tune antennas that way
2020-12-12T02:03:23 < mawk> then to get certified it's $$$
2020-12-12T02:03:27 < mawk> probably
2020-12-12T02:03:47 < mawk> but you can make your own sd with enough dedication
2020-12-12T02:04:00 < ds2> there's a project doing that
2020-12-12T02:05:16 < mawk> I chose the old sdk, maybe shouldn't have done so
2020-12-12T02:05:26 < mawk> or I guess I'll just skip their shitty libs and do my own things
2020-12-12T02:05:30 < mawk> just use the nrfx driver api
2020-12-12T02:05:34 < ds2> still on the ancient sdk11 I think
2020-12-12T02:05:39 < mawk> ugly
2020-12-12T02:05:54 < mawk> the bootloader they made is cool though, and worked out of the box
2020-12-12T02:06:11 < ds2> never got that to work 
2020-12-12T02:06:20 < mawk> and I found how to keep using swd and bootloader in parallel
2020-12-12T02:06:27 < mawk> by filling the CRC in bootloader settings
2020-12-12T02:06:48 < mawk> I just compiled their bootloader code with my own private key and that's it
2020-12-12T02:07:07 < mawk> I can make dfu zip packages that I can flash in usb uart when the device is in bootloader
2020-12-12T02:07:11 < mawk> by pressing reset
2020-12-12T02:07:34 < ds2> easier to just drop in a jlink w/tag connect
2020-12-12T02:07:46 < mawk> well I program it with stlink myself
2020-12-12T02:07:57 < mawk> but I mean if there's ever a end user at the end of this project, easier with usb
2020-12-12T02:08:02 < mawk> to upgrade the fw
2020-12-12T02:08:24 < mawk> I didn't even have to code anything to get the bl to work
2020-12-12T02:08:28 < ds2> end users can use nrfconnect 
2020-12-12T02:08:32 < mawk> just flashed it to memory at 0x100000 or something
2020-12-12T02:08:35 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-12T02:08:39 < mawk> that's what I'm talking abouy
2020-12-12T02:08:40 < mawk> t
2020-12-12T02:08:47 < mawk> nrfconnect uses that bootloader
2020-12-12T02:09:14 < ds2> it is the same one for hte UART? thought tha twas the fail safe stuff
2020-12-12T02:09:17 < mawk> I just swapped nordic's private key for mine, and I made a command line nrfconnect
2020-12-12T02:09:25 < mawk> there's no failsafe on nrf
2020-12-12T02:09:28 < mawk> you can delete it
2020-12-12T02:09:36 < mawk> and it's usb cdc acm
2020-12-12T02:09:45 < mawk> at least the one they provide for the dongle board
2020-12-12T02:11:20 < mawk> the bootloader is open source
2020-12-12T02:11:35 < mawk> but they also provide a MBR binary blob whose job is forward interrupts and load bootloader
2020-12-12T02:11:49 < mawk> dunno why it's closed source, maybe certification purposes for softdevices
2020-12-12T02:12:09 < mawk> but you can delete everything, wipe the flash and have 100% your own code running
2020-12-12T02:15:25 < mawk> one stupid thing when doing that is that default logic level is 1.8V
2020-12-12T02:15:39 < mawk> so you better have a high end probe if you delete the config registers
2020-12-12T02:15:55 < mawk> or feed the chip on a special pin or something to force to 3.3V
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2020-12-12T02:27:15 < mawk> https://youtu.be/5f6_KAeh6nw
2020-12-12T02:28:38 < mawk> listen to this ds2 it's totally the music you like
2020-12-12T02:30:41 < mawk> industrial hardcore
2020-12-12T02:30:49 < mawk> the best kind
2020-12-12T02:30:57 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-12T02:31:03 < mawk> by a German guy so who would hate that
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2020-12-12T02:32:21 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/5f6_KAeh6nw
2020-12-12T02:34:32 < Steffanx> If I ever get infected with this wannacry crap i bet it will only play music like that
2020-12-12T02:49:10 < mawk> :(
2020-12-12T02:57:53 < fenugrec> heh, I don't think I have enough wlan adapters https://ibb.co/j82HQHD
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2020-12-12T03:22:59 < englishman> is that win98
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2020-12-12T04:15:25 < fenugrec> old xp partition
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2020-12-12T04:28:01 < kakium69> I have it now after dreaming of it for half of my life
2020-12-12T04:28:27 < kakium69> torsen in middle and torsen in rear
2020-12-12T04:39:36 < Steffanx> What about some sleep all the way, kakium69 ?
2020-12-12T04:39:59 < kakium69> I can't
2020-12-12T04:40:23 < kakium69> we were in spa and I drank coffee
2020-12-12T04:40:47 < kakium69> then I drove for 3hours and I'm too tired to sleep
2020-12-12T04:41:58 < kakium69> why you no sleep steff
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2020-12-12T04:57:02 < aandrew> <+god> got the vaccine early so i could travel, no real side effects to worry about -> https://i.imgur.com/tZnx7ql.jpg
2020-12-12T04:57:05 < aandrew> LOL
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2020-12-12T06:01:03 < Jak_o_Shadows> MOUNTING HOLES is a good idea
2020-12-12T06:02:26 < Jak_o_Shadows> meh, double sided tape will do
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2020-12-12T12:46:49 < jadew> aandrew, will you be getting the vaccine?
2020-12-12T12:58:47 < antto> the word for "vaccine" in .bg is "vaksina"
2020-12-12T12:59:18 < jadew> Jak_o_Shadows, what are you answering to? it sounds a lot like something I had in my mind for the past couple of days
2020-12-12T12:59:19 < antto> certain .bg text editor auto-correct turns it into "vagina"
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2020-12-12T12:59:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> jadew, this is me thinking if I want to add mounting holes to V3 of the servo driver PCB
2020-12-12T13:00:00 < jadew> well, I'll certainly try to get that
2020-12-12T13:00:11 < Jak_o_Shadows> I decided against it, because it's so small, and has too many through holes already
2020-12-12T13:00:22 < jadew> ah, I see
2020-12-12T13:00:35 < Jak_o_Shadows> Can't even fit 1.2mm bolts
2020-12-12T13:00:45 < jadew> my conundrum is about radiators
2020-12-12T13:01:26 < jadew> bought maybe a dozen of them, to see how they'd look/fit and decided against all of them so far
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2020-12-12T14:46:24 < dongs> lu why do people insist on using sourceforget in 2020
2020-12-12T14:46:34 < dongs> such jank ux
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2020-12-12T15:16:21 < Steffanx> Yeah.
2020-12-12T15:19:15 < qyx> hows life in .nl, Steffanx 
2020-12-12T15:19:26 < qyx> no christmas lockdowns?
2020-12-12T15:19:51 < Steffanx> not yet
2020-12-12T15:20:07 < Steffanx> but its not going so well lately
2020-12-12T15:20:18 < qyx> same here
2020-12-12T15:20:34 < qyx> we have some christmas presents planned in the form of magic uncertainty
2020-12-12T15:21:09 < qyx> a.k.a. we don't know a fuck about whats going on
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2020-12-12T15:36:20 < Steffanx> Yeah, government is talking here right now.. next weekl they might come with some update. Nah. will see what they come up with
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2020-12-12T15:39:43 < karlp> heh, thgought my new cheap mouse was being cheap.  nah, just efficient, and getting flaky at the end. it sucked this AA battery down to 0.8V
2020-12-12T15:40:23 < qyx> whats your new cheap mouse?
2020-12-12T15:40:41 < karlp> some trust one.
2020-12-12T15:40:51 < karlp> they have like 30 ~identical ones with different shapes
2020-12-12T15:41:09 < karlp> but it runs off a single AA, and has side forwards/back buttons.
2020-12-12T15:41:35 < karlp> https://www.trust.com/en/product/19938-sura-wireless-mouse
2020-12-12T15:42:14 < zyp> haha, nice
2020-12-12T15:42:28 < qyx> I had  some logitechs, m285 or similar, m305 and now m185 https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/m185-wireless-mouse.910-002225.html
2020-12-12T15:42:33 < qyx> relatively cheap too
2020-12-12T15:43:00 < qyx> and that marketing 12mo life on a single AA is ~true
2020-12-12T15:43:38 < qyx> I am feeding it with drained batteries which don§t work in other gadgets
2020-12-12T15:43:58 < qyx> the mouse is able to drain them even more for another couple of months
2020-12-12T15:47:13 < Steffanx> my mouser is never empty.
2020-12-12T15:47:31 < dongs> wireless mice are trash anyway
2020-12-12T15:47:35 < dongs> G502 or fuck off
2020-12-12T15:47:40 < Steffanx> or maybe its always empty... since it has no batteries
2020-12-12T15:47:49 < dongs> need that GaYmEr mouse so i can be altidumb pro
2020-12-12T15:47:49 < Steffanx> <dongs> G502 or fuck off.. lol thanks
2020-12-12T15:48:09 < Steffanx> all, none or some weights?
2020-12-12T15:48:15 < dongs> none heh
2020-12-12T15:48:21 < zyp> haha
2020-12-12T15:48:24 < fenugrec> too many buttons. Everytime you touch it you accidentally click something
2020-12-12T15:48:30 < Steffanx> lol no
2020-12-12T15:48:36 < Steffanx> I have no parkinson
2020-12-12T15:48:42 < dongs> teh buttons are fine
2020-12-12T15:48:47 < dongs> i even bound some to altidumb actions.
2020-12-12T15:49:01 < Steffanx> only button i SOMETIMES press is the button to change the profile.
2020-12-12T15:49:12 < dongs> uh? which one is that im pretty sure i disabled that shit
2020-12-12T15:49:14 < qyx> I hav eno buttons
2020-12-12T15:49:20 < qyx> except the two
2020-12-12T15:49:22 < zyp> I'm still rocking my mx510
2020-12-12T15:49:27 < Steffanx> SOMETIMES by accident that is.
2020-12-12T15:49:27 < dongs> x> I have no parkinson
2020-12-12T15:49:31 < zyp> that I bought when I were in like middle school
2020-12-12T15:50:10 < Steffanx> the one on below the one to lock/unlock the scroll wheel, dongs.
2020-12-12T15:50:13 < dongs> the only thing i dont like is the 'middle' button is like way in the center
2020-12-12T15:50:20 < dongs> oh thats my middle button
2020-12-12T15:50:22 < Steffanx> thats the default one i guesss, never bothered to change it
2020-12-12T15:51:16 < dongs> oh. it is 'onboard profile cycle'
2020-12-12T15:51:22 < dongs> but i guess i dont have any profiles to cycle through
2020-12-12T15:51:24 < dongs> so it does nothing
2020-12-12T15:51:37 < dongs> its too uncomfortable to hit to use it for anything
2020-12-12T15:54:42 < dongs> why the fuck are STM32s so slow to program and erase flash
2020-12-12T15:54:51 < dongs> fucking faggotmel is like instant on 1MiB flash
2020-12-12T15:54:59 < dongs> takes literally a lifetime to full erase 1MiB on STM
2020-12-12T15:55:54 < zyp> because stm32 users get it right on the first try, so they don't have to erase and rewrite
2020-12-12T15:56:02 < zyp> right?
2020-12-12T15:56:25 < dongs> no, stm32 users use ozone so you don't have to do full erase to update one small thing in firmware you'r testing :p
2020-12-12T15:56:31 < dongs>    ^ real
2020-12-12T15:57:00 < zyp> haha
2020-12-12T15:57:33 < fenugrec> with stm32cube you have the added convenience of a full erase + reflash every time you start a debugging session, no matter if you didn't even recompile
2020-12-12T15:57:43 < dongs> haha
2020-12-12T15:57:48 < dongs> you mean the cubeIDE?
2020-12-12T15:57:53 < fenugrec> yea
2020-12-12T15:58:19 < zyp> fun
2020-12-12T15:59:50 < dongs> ozone does a CRC check vs current .bin and if no changes, just works
2020-12-12T15:59:57 < dongs> if it fails, it updates only the needed blocks
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2020-12-12T16:03:13 < fenugrec> I know, you'd think that kind of thing would be common by now... I did the same thing for some ECU reflasher thing, at the time I think even 'pro' software didn't. It's not that hard
2020-12-12T16:03:34 < dongs> openocd, pro software???? ahahhahaha
2020-12-12T16:03:53 < fenugrec> referring to pro ECU reflashers
2020-12-12T16:04:03 < dongs> i know, im just trollin along
2020-12-12T16:06:20 < Steffanx> whats new?
2020-12-12T16:20:22 < qyx> pro ecu what?
2020-12-12T16:20:42 < qyx> you mean that old renesas trash in beige boxes?
2020-12-12T16:20:59 < qyx> doing jtag over a 115200 RS232?
2020-12-12T16:22:09 < fenugrec> almost. More like custom protocols over 10400bps K-line
2020-12-12T16:24:53 < fenugrec> some flash over CAN , much faster but still erasing the whole flash
2020-12-12T16:27:16 < qyx> wheeres k-line even used
2020-12-12T16:27:19 < qyx> some motocycles?
2020-12-12T16:27:41 < fenugrec> anything with a Denso ecu up to maybe ~2007
2020-12-12T16:28:12 < fenugrec> nissan/infiniti/renault, subaru I think
2020-12-12T16:28:22 < qyx> toyotA?
2020-12-12T16:28:40 < fenugrec> probably, don't know for sure
2020-12-12T16:34:59 < Steffanx> toy yoda.
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2020-12-12T18:29:43 < karlp> woo, 2020. new release of autohell.  adds support for C11 and c++11! autofail for the win! wooo!
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2020-12-12T18:41:03 < emeb> yay?
2020-12-12T18:41:04 < fenugrec> autotools ? are they still on CVS
2020-12-12T18:41:14 < Steffanx> 🥳🥳
2020-12-12T18:41:15 < fenugrec> or was it RCS
2020-12-12T18:41:34 < emeb> hey! don't knock CVS
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2020-12-12T18:53:17 < GenTooMan> Yes they are a great pharmacy..
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2020-12-12T18:59:05 < t3st3r> well, on other hand autotools can send me to hell on nearly anything with posix shell.
2020-12-12T18:59:22 < t3st3r> few other things can admit this luxury
2020-12-12T19:09:46 < mawk> https://youtu.be/Tpg5OJNfef4
2020-12-12T19:09:50 < mawk> lenny dee
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2020-12-12T19:27:21 < mawk> anyone done bt here?
2020-12-12T19:27:25 < mawk> especially with nrf52
2020-12-12T19:32:15 < englishman> yes
2020-12-12T19:32:28 < englishman> well i havent
2020-12-12T19:32:30 < englishman> but someone has
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2020-12-12T20:05:48 < aandrew> jadew: I will not be getting the vaccine until I've seen it thoroughly tested in wide deployment
2020-12-12T20:09:03 < Steffanx> same
2020-12-12T20:21:27 < PaulFertser> How wide does it need to be?
2020-12-12T20:22:15 < PaulFertser> Isn't the regular FDA approval not telling the testing was thorough enough?
2020-12-12T20:32:01 < englishman> i won't be getting the vaccine because i'm a healthy white male so it won't be available for at least a year
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2020-12-12T20:59:09 < qyx> PaulFertser: you mean the trump induced approval?
2020-12-12T21:00:05 < PaulFertser> qyx: FDA is supposed to be indpendent from the president.
2020-12-12T21:00:24 < PaulFertser> qyx: and I thought it's known for testing properly.
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2020-12-12T21:48:51 < englishman> like the FAA is known for testing planes? :)
2020-12-12T21:52:48 < PaulFertser> englishman: are they doing a bad job at it?
2020-12-12T21:53:23 < englishman> did the vaccine take away your sense of humour?
2020-12-12T21:53:40 < englishman> and if you followed the 737MAX saga, apparently they aren't testing at all
2020-12-12T21:54:14 < PaulFertser> englishman: I followed the MAX saga somewhat and I'm fairly sure gross pilot incompetence played the major role in it.
2020-12-12T21:55:34 < PaulFertser> englishman: the problem in question is way less severe and manageable than some of the well-known issues of the past.
2020-12-12T21:56:23 < PaulFertser> less severe and more manageable I meant
2020-12-12T22:06:38 < PaulFertser> E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
2020-12-12T22:08:09 < effractur> PaulFertser: well the main issue is that pilots where not informed that this could happen
2020-12-12T22:11:01 < PaulFertser> effractur: the second crash surely was after they were informed
2020-12-12T22:12:00 < Steffanx> We'll put in you into air plane and see how youll handle PaulFertser ;)
2020-12-12T22:12:01 < PaulFertser> effractur: and the first crash happened with the plane that had exactly the same malfunction the flight before, and the crew continued the flight to their destination safely.
2020-12-12T22:12:42 < Steffanx> *into an
2020-12-12T22:13:08 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the very same plane with exactly the same issue didn't crash the flight before, I think that's an essential data point.
2020-12-12T22:15:18 < Steffanx> 1 data point. but whatever i couldnt really be bothered looking into this at all
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2020-12-12T22:35:02 < aandrew> wait 737 MAX's got a rudder issue too? I thought it was just the trim that MCAS could fuck with more than the FAA even knew about 
2020-12-12T22:35:27 < Steffanx> long time ago.
2020-12-12T22:35:34 < Steffanx> also not max?
2020-12-12T22:37:13 < Steffanx> although there was some other issue discovered as well, might have been a rudder issue
2020-12-12T22:37:31 < effractur> yea 737
2020-12-12T22:37:40 < effractur> but the stupid thing is that because they are 
2020-12-12T22:37:56 < effractur> resertifing the same airbody with the rules from the 1980 orso
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2020-12-12T22:39:44 < Steffanx> *recertifying? :P
2020-12-12T22:40:02 < PaulFertser> aandrew: I mean rudder issues like that are much more dangerous. But with MCAS properly trained pilots should have no issues controlling the plane at any stage.
2020-12-12T22:41:09 < aandrew> sure, I think that sticking MCAS inbetween the pilot and the flaps and NOT FUCKING TELLING THEM ABOUT IT was a big issue
2020-12-12T22:41:16 < Steffanx> Im  glad you, as a non-trained pilot, be a good judge on this matter PaulFertser ;)
2020-12-12T22:41:29 < aandrew> that was done intentionally as an airline cost saving measure
2020-12-12T22:41:45 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I was reading a well-trained pilot on the topic, and the relevant parts of the Boeing documentation.
2020-12-12T22:42:04 < aandrew> initially MCAS as only supposed to be able to add like 30% trim IIRC? and that's all the FAA knew about too... then it was changed to 100% without telling anyone
2020-12-12T22:42:33 < PaulFertser> MCAS is nasty but not catastrophic
2020-12-12T22:42:37 < PaulFertser> That's my point
2020-12-12T22:43:06 < aandrew> that and then MCAS on the left and right side of the airframe not being able to see *both* AoA sensors, and Boeing selling the "AoA DISAGREE" pilot indicator as an add-on... 
2020-12-12T22:43:12 < PaulFertser> aandrew: it's acting slowly and is overridable with the regular trim buttons.
2020-12-12T22:43:17 < effractur> no but MCAS with only 1 AoA is stupid
2020-12-12T22:43:25 < PaulFertser> Stupid indeed
2020-12-12T22:43:26 < effractur> the current regulations require at least 3
2020-12-12T22:43:31 < effractur> but beacsue it is an old airframe
2020-12-12T22:43:39 < aandrew> PaulFertser: initially, yes, with the (I think it was) 30% max trim
2020-12-12T22:43:42 < effractur> and that you had to pay for 2 AoA is just greedy
2020-12-12T22:43:58 < effractur> like extra safty features that you charge extra money for
2020-12-12T22:44:02 < effractur> it just evil
2020-12-12T22:44:04 < PaulFertser> aandrew: it's just pausing for a bit when any trim button is pressed
2020-12-12T22:44:38 < PaulFertser> And the trim button is right there under the thumb.
2020-12-12T22:44:44 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yes, that agrees with my understanding as well, and with the one crash report where the plane kept diving
2020-12-12T22:45:14 < aandrew> but you trim, MCAS disengages for a bit, then comes on again, you trim manually, it disables then comes on after a bit again...
2020-12-12T22:45:32 < aandrew> and MCAS being able to go to 100% is a hell of an override
2020-12-12T22:45:51 < PaulFertser> aandrew: and the pilots have a memory item "runaway stabilizer", they are supposed to identify any situation when stabilizer is moving unexpectedly and just cut the power to its electric motors.
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2020-12-12T22:46:11 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yes, agreed again
2020-12-12T22:46:12 < PaulFertser> It takes very long time to go to 100 %
2020-12-12T22:46:35 < PaulFertser> So, yes, the feature is poorly, horribly implemented, no arguing that.
2020-12-12T22:47:06 < PaulFertser> Ah, and btw, the MCAS doesn't turn on when the flaps are in non-zero position so it won't interfere with takeoff or landing.
2020-12-12T22:48:05 < aandrew> PaulFertser: given the issues with it in general, I don't know that I'd trust that it would stick to the rules
2020-12-12T22:48:38 < PaulFertser> aandrew: the flight recorder data confirms it, the takeoff was fine.
2020-12-12T22:48:49 < PaulFertser> And in any case it was all known before the second crash.
2020-12-12T22:49:04 < aandrew> PaulFertser: none of the crashes was at takeoff, but during its ascent to cruising altitiude, no?
2020-12-12T22:49:15 < PaulFertser> aandrew: yes
2020-12-12T22:49:37 < aandrew> yes, the second crash IIRC was attributed to either the airline not receiving the change notice in time, or not communicating it to the pilots in time (can't remember which)
2020-12-12T22:49:47 < PaulFertser> I mean by the time flaps are retracted there's enough speed and altitude to handle a situation like that.
2020-12-12T22:50:16 < PaulFertser> aandrew: huh, can you imagine a B737MAX pilot not hearing about the first crash from the news?
2020-12-12T22:50:28 < PaulFertser> And not being interested to learn the outcome?
2020-12-12T22:50:42 < aandrew> PaulFertser: no, the change notice
2020-12-12T22:50:46 < aandrew> not that they didn't hear of the crash
2020-12-12T22:51:02 < aandrew> i.e. "oh yeah, there's this thing called MCAS, and here's what it's doing, and here's how to kill it"
2020-12-12T22:51:29 < PaulFertser> They would read about it on their pilot forums the day it was sent to the airlines.
2020-12-12T22:51:36 < aandrew> although like you said, the circuit breakers for the trim are already documented and haven't changed so it's unclear why the second crash's pilots didn't kill them when they were acting up
2020-12-12T22:51:38 < karlp> assuming professionals...
2020-12-12T22:51:54 < karlp> you should know better than assuming 100% of a profession are professional
2020-12-12T22:52:21 < Steffanx> And luckily professionals dont make miustakes, ever.
2020-12-12T22:52:38 < PaulFertser> My idea is that Boeing are evil but in this specific situation actually not that much.
2020-12-12T22:52:39 < Steffanx> aandrew, according to wikipedia they did know about and did get a training.
2020-12-12T22:52:54 < aandrew> ah, my info must be incorrect
2020-12-12T22:53:22 < Steffanx> unless wikipedia is just quoting a guy who said something that wasnt true, that could be the case 
2020-12-12T22:53:24 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX_groundings
2020-12-12T22:53:26 < aandrew> it's very clear that the manufacturers of the airframes and the regulating body of the manufacturers got wayyy to comfortable with each other
2020-12-12T22:53:53 < aandrew> self-certification is a thing, but this was too far
2020-12-12T22:54:05 < PaulFertser> Looks like it, I have to agree here.
2020-12-12T22:54:58 < Steffanx> And now back to the point? Who says the FDA and the vaccine manufacturers dont have that issue? [conspiracy mode on]
2020-12-12T22:55:32 < aandrew> yeah I'm staying the fuck away from the world's first mRNA vaccine that was fast-tracked 
2020-12-12T22:55:40 < Steffanx> not the self-certification, but the being comfortable with each other. Especially when the world is in need of a vaccine.
2020-12-12T22:55:45 < aandrew> when 30MM have had it and we see the real life results I'll consider it
2020-12-12T22:56:08 < PaulFertser> No prior episodes like that? And even to the contrary, some dangerous drug that harmed people in Europe wasn't approved by FDA and saved americans.
2020-12-12T22:56:11 < aandrew> until then though, I don't care to fuck with my health with a brand new, relatively untested and rushed medication
2020-12-12T22:56:50 < PaulFertser> aandrew: get the russian sputnik vaccine then, it's more traditional
2020-12-12T22:56:52 < Steffanx> lol whats " 30MM" ? 30 million muricans?
2020-12-12T22:56:57 < aandrew> lol
2020-12-12T22:57:00 < aandrew> million
2020-12-12T22:57:05 < aandrew> not sure where that second M came from
2020-12-12T22:57:49 < fenugrec> like pF values on old schematics : "33 uuF"
2020-12-12T22:57:50 < aandrew> I'm absolutely pro-vaccine in general, my issue is the rush to market. there's way too much incentive to cut a corner to get to market first
2020-12-12T22:57:59 < aandrew> fenugrec: heh yes!
2020-12-12T22:58:07 < aandrew> or "mcg" in medication instead of ug
2020-12-12T22:59:02 < PaulFertser> aandrew: are you afraid that mRNA thing can be ineffective or actively harmful?
2020-12-12T22:59:41 < aandrew> the latter
2020-12-12T22:59:43 < englishman> tbh if you're scared of 0.5cc of government juice being injected in you, you're a pussy
2020-12-12T23:00:01 < aandrew> call me a pussy then, no skin off my dick
2020-12-12T23:00:37 < englishman> you consume many thousands of times more harmful shit each year eating pre-packaged food
2020-12-12T23:00:56 < aandrew> englishman: but all of that shit has a LOOOOOOOONG history of its effects
2020-12-12T23:01:06 < PaulFertser> aandrew: have you read about any possible specific ways it might induce harm?
2020-12-12T23:01:43 < PaulFertser> And I guess it was already tested on like 50k people, right?
2020-12-12T23:02:37 < aandrew> I've read about what's actually in there, it's not inactivated covaids or anything - I'm not concerned about catching the 'rona from it
2020-12-12T23:08:52 < PaulFertser> Yes, so?
2020-12-12T23:10:21 < Steffanx> So where you able to get an injection yet? (ive no clue how far russia actually is ... )?
2020-12-12T23:10:27 < Steffanx> *were
2020-12-12T23:11:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: in moscow they are supposed to start with those working in hospitals and schools.
2020-12-12T23:17:54 < qyx> aandrew: we are good then
2020-12-12T23:18:50 < qyx> as englishman said, as a healthy and relatively young people not being in danger were getting the vaccination n a yera or so
2020-12-12T23:19:20 < qyx> when it is tested on many
2020-12-12T23:19:57 < qyx> in this regard, GB is doing good leaving eu and having the vaccine tested first :P
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2020-12-12T23:54:42 < jadew> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weird-news/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333
2020-12-12T23:55:46 < jadew> "Eshed said cooperation agreements had been signed between species, including an "underground base in the depths of Mars" where there are American astronauts and alien representatives."
2020-12-12T23:55:50 < jadew> wtf is this?
2020-12-12T23:56:55 < Steffanx> Its fake news
2020-12-12T23:58:06 < jadew> it's all over the news
--- Day changed Sun Dec 13 2020
2020-12-13T00:00:28 < Steffanx> No its not
2020-12-13T00:00:48 < Steffanx> Did he pass the drug tests?
2020-12-13T00:01:21 < jadew> sounds like you're part of the cover up team
2020-12-13T00:01:32 < jadew> are you an alien Steffanx?
2020-12-13T00:03:10 < Steffanx> Yes.
2020-12-13T00:03:41 < Steffanx> Shape shifter from outer space. Even better from the future
2020-12-13T00:26:23 < jadew> what's the cheapest stm32 with built in ethernet?
2020-12-13T00:27:16 < jadew> hmm, did I ask this before?
2020-12-13T00:27:36 < jadew> I feel like I started this project already...
2020-12-13T00:27:59 < PaulFertser> jadew: ethernet MAC or ethernet PHY?
2020-12-13T00:28:11 < jadew> PHY
2020-12-13T00:30:14 < jadew> or well.. what's the cheapest way of getting ethernet on a MCU
2020-12-13T00:30:17 < PaulFertser> Is there any?
2020-12-13T00:30:17 < jadew> ?
2020-12-13T00:30:39 < jadew> I don't know... I assumed it would be the cheapest option, but in reality I don't really care if it's on the MCU or not
2020-12-13T00:32:01 < englishman> put a raspberripi instead?
2020-12-13T00:32:30 < jadew> englishman, needs to be very small
2020-12-13T00:32:41 < jadew> and that would be very unpro
2020-12-13T00:33:05 < jadew> looks like I have a stm32 f7 disco that has ethernet, I'll have to see how it's implemented on this board
2020-12-13T00:34:01 < PaulFertser> F7 doesn't sound cheap though. stm32f107 had ethernet.
2020-12-13T00:34:58 < effractur> tehy all have just a MAC
2020-12-13T00:35:14 < PaulFertser> Yes
2020-12-13T00:35:18 < jadew> the disco uses this: https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/LAN8742A\
2020-12-13T00:35:21 < jadew> the disco uses this: https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/LAN8742A
2020-12-13T00:35:56 < effractur> so just a RMII interface
2020-12-13T00:36:15 < effractur> oo but nice the F7 support vlans
2020-12-13T00:38:08 < effractur> but it seems all MAC's support it
2020-12-13T00:38:54 < jadew> ok... so STM32F107 + 8742A is roughly $10
2020-12-13T00:39:01 < jadew> that's not bad
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2020-12-13T00:47:00 < qyx> jadew: f750 + ksz8081rnaca?
2020-12-13T00:47:05 < qyx> or something like that?
2020-12-13T00:47:17 < qyx> should be under 7€
2020-12-13T00:47:53 < qyx> or was it f723
2020-12-13T00:48:05 < qyx> I would not use f107 anymore
2020-12-13T00:48:10 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3icVgib8qk
2020-12-13T00:48:14 < qyx> f407 is cheap too
2020-12-13T00:48:24 < Laurenceb> F103: original and best
2020-12-13T00:48:30 < Laurenceb> atmega168p of stm32
2020-12-13T00:48:55 < jadew> qyx, the F750 seems to have ethernet and is indeed quite cheap
2020-12-13T00:49:45 < jadew> qyx, f407 is more expensive
2020-12-13T00:49:55 < jadew> I like the F750
2020-12-13T00:50:33 < PaulFertser> jadew: you also need to count a magjack
2020-12-13T00:51:24 < jadew> yeah, but that had to be there anyway
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2020-12-13T01:05:19 < PaulFertser> Found an MCU with integrated PHY but it's 16 bucks https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/MSP432E401YTPDTR/7916258
2020-12-13T01:06:25 < qyx> jadew: beware of 64K of flash
2020-12-13T01:06:39 < qyx> you can expand to few MB with dual quadspi
2020-12-13T01:07:33 < qyx> according to their figures performance penalty is negligible
2020-12-13T01:07:57 < qyx> fuk msp430
2020-12-13T01:09:27 < PaulFertser> It's not msp430, not related at all anyhow afaict.
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2020-12-13T01:15:07 < qyx> looks similar
2020-12-13T01:15:13 < qyx> at least the number
2020-12-13T01:16:17 < PaulFertser> It's former Stellaris -> Tiva C
2020-12-13T01:22:12 < jadew> qyx, 64k should be enough
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2020-12-13T02:20:49 < BrainDamage> for everyone*
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2020-12-13T06:46:27 < englishman> aandrew: if you were worried about the vaccine, don't be. they are coming by UPS.
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2020-12-13T13:31:08 < Steffanx> Are you a mailman yet englishman ?
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2020-12-13T14:40:08 < Steffanx> jpa-, jpa-  look look http://imgur.com/a/gtv3ynA
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2020-12-13T14:43:44 < jpa-> aww
2020-12-13T14:44:21 < jpa-> Steffanx: we're coming to visit you as soon as corona disappears
2020-12-13T14:44:33 < Steffanx> Do you even have a pet?
2020-12-13T14:44:47 < jpa-> nope
2020-12-13T14:44:58 < Steffanx> There are better countries to visit than Dutchland..
2020-12-13T14:46:28 < jpa-> last time we were in amsterdam we ended up in some kind of whorealley, and i was so busy looking at map that my wife remarked only later "you missed all the boobs"
2020-12-13T14:46:47 < effractur> yea don't go to amsterdam
2020-12-13T14:46:50 < effractur> it sucks
2020-12-13T14:47:14 < Steffanx> Amsterdam is made for tourists and tourists only
2020-12-13T14:48:03 < Steffanx> So what dutch city/place would you advice effractur ? Madurodam?
2020-12-13T14:48:13 < effractur> utrecht
2020-12-13T14:48:20 < effractur> den haag
2020-12-13T14:48:28 < effractur> like anything expect amsterdam
2020-12-13T14:48:36 < Steffanx> Except ;)
2020-12-13T14:52:51 < Steffanx> And how can you not say Groningen, effractur ;)
2020-12-13T14:53:07 < effractur> well groningen is okay
2020-12-13T14:53:12 < effractur> but jsut far away from the rest
2020-12-13T14:53:23 < effractur> with the uni beeing english only it is okay to viist 
2020-12-13T14:57:04 < Steffanx> What is far? Only like 100-150 km
2020-12-13T15:00:22 < effractur> well if you also want to visit like zeeland etc
2020-12-13T15:00:27 < effractur> a somehwat more central place could be helpfull
2020-12-13T15:00:40 < Steffanx> .
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2020-12-13T16:27:29 < mawk> what is the smallest n such that 3^n - 2^n is a multiple of 2015 ?
2020-12-13T16:34:53 < fenugrec> ... 1?
2020-12-13T16:37:34 < mawk> you mean zero?
2020-12-13T16:37:37 < mawk> zero would work
2020-12-13T16:37:40 < mawk> but it's forbidden
2020-12-13T16:37:44 < mawk> smallest n > 0
2020-12-13T16:37:51 < fenugrec> 3^1 - 2^1 = 1, no ?
2020-12-13T16:37:59 < mawk> yeah, and 1 isn't a multiple of 2015
2020-12-13T16:38:05 < fenugrec> 1 * 2015 = 2015
2020-12-13T16:38:21 < mawk> you cannot find a such that 2015a = 1
2020-12-13T16:38:28 < mawk> so 1 isn't multiple of 2015
2020-12-13T16:38:33 < mawk> 2015 is multiple of 1 though
2020-12-13T16:38:41 < fenugrec> ah un multiple pas un diviseur
2020-12-13T16:38:52 < mawk> tout à fait
2020-12-13T16:38:53 < fenugrec> I give up
2020-12-13T16:38:56 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T16:39:06 < mawk> 3^n = 2^n mod 2015, en d'autres termes
2020-12-13T16:39:11 < fenugrec> certes
2020-12-13T16:40:26 < Steffanx>  Omelette du fromage
2020-12-13T16:40:36 < Steffanx> I mean: Je ne parle pas français
2020-12-13T16:40:40 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T16:41:16 < Steffanx> 60.
2020-12-13T16:41:27 < mawk> show proof
2020-12-13T16:42:06 < mawk> with pen and paper I mean
2020-12-13T16:42:19 < mawk> since that's how you tried right?
2020-12-13T16:42:59 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-12-13T16:43:04 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/eqG30Fs
2020-12-13T16:43:19 < mawk> ohlala
2020-12-13T16:43:25 < mawk> you're eternally disqualified Steffanx 
2020-12-13T16:43:35 < fenugrec> hahaha
2020-12-13T16:43:37 < mawk> wolframalpha is the most forbidden tool on earth to solve my problems
2020-12-13T16:43:51 < Steffanx> Thanks
2020-12-13T16:44:36 < mawk> at least if you did something like this it would've been a proper proof:
2020-12-13T16:44:37 < mawk> [pow(3, k, 2015) for k in range(1, 100)].index(1)+1
2020-12-13T16:44:39 < mawk> Out[444]: 60
2020-12-13T16:44:45 < mawk> but still forbidden
2020-12-13T16:44:57 < Steffanx> Yeah, coding it is no fun either 
2020-12-13T16:45:12 < mawk> python's pow can do mod powers just fine
2020-12-13T16:45:16 < mawk> no need to use fancy tools
2020-12-13T16:46:22 < Steffanx> Is the code real proof anyway? What if it happens to vr 1.23456789. 
2020-12-13T16:46:25 < Steffanx> Be*
2020-12-13T16:52:58 < mawk> n is integer
2020-12-13T16:53:04 < mawk> so yes, exhaustive search is a real proof
2020-12-13T16:53:06 < mawk> used in mathematics
2020-12-13T16:53:11 < mawk> it's not generally regarded as pretty though
2020-12-13T16:53:25 < mawk> but that's not how I proved it
2020-12-13T16:53:48 < mawk> 2 and 3 have no common multiple, so the only way for 2^n and 3^n to be equal is that they're both equal to 1
2020-12-13T16:54:00 < mawk> so you look for n1 smallest integer such that 3^n1 = 1, and n2 such that 2^n2 = 1
2020-12-13T16:54:05 < mawk> and you take the least common multiple of the two
2020-12-13T16:54:07 < mawk> and that's i
2020-12-13T16:54:09 < mawk> t
2020-12-13T16:54:45 < dongs> zyp: you ever fucked with STM's can BL? I've got both host side and almost all of device-side stuff implemented but hte doc is confusing on page erase
2020-12-13T16:55:56 < Steffanx> But now n is integer. You should be more precise when you dump your question mawk 😉
2020-12-13T16:56:08 < mawk> n is always integer Steffanx 
2020-12-13T16:56:14 < mawk> only a madman would name a non integer "n"
2020-12-13T16:56:42 < Steffanx> ##stm32 .
2020-12-13T16:56:48 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T16:58:24 < mawk> to do it by hand, I do an exhaustive search but a smart one: only numbers in this list can work: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 16, 18, 20, 24, 30, 32, 36, 40, 45, 48, 60, 72, 80, 90, 96, 120, 144, 160, 180, 240, 288, 360, 480, 720, 1,440
2020-12-13T16:58:34 < mawk> and you start from the right in a smart way to eliminate whole branches at once
2020-12-13T16:58:41 < mawk> and you end up at 60 after a few notebook pages
2020-12-13T16:59:24 < mawk> that's what WA does probably
2020-12-13T16:59:25 < Steffanx> Trial and error is no real math
2020-12-13T16:59:26 < mawk> I hope
2020-12-13T16:59:29 < mawk> it's not trial and error
2020-12-13T16:59:39 < mawk> there's no other algorithm to find it
2020-12-13T16:59:46 < mawk> actually some cryptography is relying on that fact
2020-12-13T17:06:14 < Steffanx> Have enough math riddles to survive the coming weeks of lock down  mawk?
2020-12-13T17:06:26 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:06:30 < mawk> when does it start?
2020-12-13T17:06:53 < Steffanx> Dont know yet, but wednesday is not unlikely
2020-12-13T17:11:37 < mawk> I should pile up on white powder also
2020-12-13T17:11:47 < mawk> I'll be confined with a wild beast
2020-12-13T17:11:52 < mawk> I need something to stay calm
2020-12-13T17:15:10 < mawk> knife sharpening is a relaxing activity
2020-12-13T17:15:26 < Steffanx> Wild beast?
2020-12-13T17:15:29 < mawk> until you try if it's sharpened enough and you realize it's duller than before and you get angry, then it's not relaxing anymore
2020-12-13T17:15:32 < mawk> yes
2020-12-13T17:18:59 < Steffanx> Time to start carving wood with your knifes 
2020-12-13T17:19:15 < Steffanx> Knives.
2020-12-13T17:19:38 < mawk> they need to be a bit sharp to carve anything, first
2020-12-13T17:19:43 < mawk> now they cannot even cut paper
2020-12-13T17:19:54 < Steffanx> Lol fool
2020-12-13T17:20:01 < jadew> lmfao, I'm reading some linux docs and it's like whoever the author is, was having a stroke while writing it.
2020-12-13T17:20:11 < mawk> which program jadew ?
2020-12-13T17:20:22 < jadew> the kernel
2020-12-13T17:20:59 < mawk> I cannot even cut humans with it Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:21:17 < mawk> but it can cut pills so it's fine
2020-12-13T17:21:20 < mawk> it's the prime usage of the knife
2020-12-13T17:21:21 < Steffanx> So your ex gf is in luck
2020-12-13T17:21:34 < mawk> I'm the one that would need police protection lol
2020-12-13T17:21:50 < mawk> I go hide the knives when she's angry
2020-12-13T17:21:55 < jadew> you broke up with the married couple, mawk?
2020-12-13T17:22:02 < mawk> no jadew 
2020-12-13T17:22:14 < mawk> with my ex official gf
2020-12-13T17:22:24 < mawk> I still see the married woman
2020-12-13T17:23:05 < mawk> the husband still wants to kill me though
2020-12-13T17:23:23 < jadew> cuck remorse
2020-12-13T17:23:35 < mawk> it wasn't really cuck, he wanted to see other women
2020-12-13T17:23:37 < mawk> he just failed
2020-12-13T17:23:42 < mawk> slav machism doesn't work very well in NL
2020-12-13T17:23:59 < mawk> so he tried to get back his former asset, but that was too late
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2020-12-13T17:24:49 < jadew> she's older than you, no?
2020-12-13T17:24:56 < mawk> yes
2020-12-13T17:24:59 < mawk> 10 years more
2020-12-13T17:25:12 < mawk> ex gf was 13 years more
2020-12-13T17:26:22 < jadew> is this like a french thing? isn't Macron dating a granny too?
2020-12-13T17:26:50 < Steffanx> oooh mawk is a toy boy, explains it all
2020-12-13T17:27:05 < jadew> he is, but he'll get bored eventually
2020-12-13T17:27:10 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T17:27:13 < mawk> they'are all asians
2020-12-13T17:27:15 < mawk> they look 10 year sless
2020-12-13T17:27:24 < mawk> I didn't even know the age of the married woman, I assumed it was same as mine
2020-12-13T17:27:40 < jadew> yeah... but at some point it's going to show
2020-12-13T17:27:46 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-13T17:27:54 < mawk> then take a new one
2020-12-13T17:27:55 < jadew> then you'll dump her ass
2020-12-13T17:28:34 < jadew> right, so why bother if it's so complicated?
2020-12-13T17:28:45 < mawk> I didn't do it on purpose
2020-12-13T17:28:50 < mawk> maybe the next one will be younger than me
2020-12-13T17:28:53 < mawk> but I really doubt it
2020-12-13T17:28:53 < Steffanx> He is in love jadew. He cannot thing straight.
2020-12-13T17:29:00 < mawk> I don't like stupid persons
2020-12-13T17:29:06 < Steffanx> *think
2020-12-13T17:30:13 < mawk> when I was 13 I was on this french drughead forum, and I was writing well enough that everyone thought I was 30; then when I said what was my age to a guy in private message he snitched on me and I got banned
2020-12-13T17:30:40 < jadew> you were taking drugs at 13?
2020-12-13T17:30:50 < mawk> yes
2020-12-13T17:30:54 < jadew> jeez...
2020-12-13T17:30:55 < mawk> that's not a good age to start?
2020-12-13T17:30:57 < mawk> I was just curious
2020-12-13T17:30:59 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T17:31:32 < mawk> I always had a problem with authority, I did only the things I understood the underlying reasons of
2020-12-13T17:31:44 < mawk> and for "don't do drugs", I didn't understand the reason
2020-12-13T17:31:49 < mawk> so I had no other choice than try drugs
2020-12-13T17:32:13 < jadew> don't do drugs, because they make your life difficult - how about that?
2020-12-13T17:32:22 < jadew> kinda applies to doing married women too lol
2020-12-13T17:32:24 < mawk> that's not a true statement
2020-12-13T17:32:29 < mawk> only some drugs will make your life difficult
2020-12-13T17:32:35 < mawk> which I verified first hand
2020-12-13T17:33:13 < mawk> stepping stone theory is bs
2020-12-13T17:34:28 < mawk> "smoke a joint monday, you'll be shooting heroin in a dumpster by friday" is the stepping stone theory
2020-12-13T17:34:50 < mawk> and only some women
2020-12-13T17:35:04 < mawk> or their husbands
2020-12-13T17:35:10 < jadew> maybe not happening to everyone, but it's probably true for almost every dumpster heroin addict
2020-12-13T17:35:33 < mawk> I took hard drugs before my first joint, before my first glass of alcohol
2020-12-13T17:35:43 < mawk> and yeah, but then it's a logical fallacy
2020-12-13T17:35:50 < mawk> heroin addicts mostly did cannabis before, but not the reverse
2020-12-13T17:35:57 < mawk> there are no conclusions to draw from this
2020-12-13T17:36:56 < jadew> I think you're more likely to try heroin if you've tried other drugs before and you think you can handle it
2020-12-13T17:37:09 < mawk> maybe in 1980
2020-12-13T17:37:21 < mawk> today, everyone knows how dangerous it can be
2020-12-13T17:37:32 < mawk> you do it only if your personality was already predisposed to doing heroin
2020-12-13T17:37:38 < mawk> which has nothing to do with the fact you did cannabis before
2020-12-13T17:37:45 < Steffanx> You forget about the going to die thing when you dont get your methadone shit.
2020-12-13T17:37:58 < mawk> that's the result of some drugs only Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:38:01 < mawk> actually just one
2020-12-13T17:38:08 < mawk> all the rest of the ~60 I've took left no marks
2020-12-13T17:38:29 < jadew> mawk, can you stop taking drugs if you want to?
2020-12-13T17:38:56 < mawk> well apart from the prescribed methadone, the only drug I take is nicotine
2020-12-13T17:39:16 < mawk> and methadone doesn't do anything apart from keeping away withdrawal, I woudln't call it a drug
2020-12-13T17:39:24 < mawk> but for the sake of argument, no I cannot stop methadone, otherwise I get horribly sick
2020-12-13T17:39:29 < jadew> weren't you saying you snorted some glue the other day?
2020-12-13T17:39:31 < mawk> and it has nothing to do with wanting it or not
2020-12-13T17:39:34 < mawk> lol no
2020-12-13T17:39:40 < mawk> glue fucks up your heart
2020-12-13T17:39:51 < mawk> I don't do toxic stuff
2020-12-13T17:40:03 < jadew> you said something about stuff in your nose
2020-12-13T17:40:05 < jadew> what was it?
2020-12-13T17:40:08 < mawk> yeah, the methadone
2020-12-13T17:40:13 < mawk> well the doctor didn't say "swallow the pills"
2020-12-13T17:40:15 < mawk> so I got creative
2020-12-13T17:40:21 < jadew> lol
2020-12-13T17:41:42 < jadew> well, I guess drugs are ok if they don't affect your life in a negative way
2020-12-13T17:42:34 < mawk> you could claim a stronger statement
2020-12-13T17:42:42 < mawk> some drugs can affect your life in a positive way
2020-12-13T17:42:56 < mawk> I'd never have been who I am today without a bit of chemistry
2020-12-13T17:43:05 < mawk> and that's what medicine does to some extent
2020-12-13T17:43:11 < jadew> you think they made you better?
2020-12-13T17:43:27 < mawk> psychoactive medication is used to treat psychiatric diseases, hyperactivity, hypersomnia, lack of libido, and so on
2020-12-13T17:43:30 < mawk> yes
2020-12-13T17:43:31 < jadew> like limitless type of stuff?
2020-12-13T17:43:38 < mawk> lol no
2020-12-13T17:43:45 < mawk> more like, I would still be extremely shy probably
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2020-12-13T17:43:56 < mawk> for the limitless type of stuff I tried a bit with stimulants, but it didn't work very well
2020-12-13T17:44:00 < mawk> I'd be the limitless guy for a day or two
2020-12-13T17:44:10 < mawk> then I transform into dumpster meth addict snorting rails in the middle of physics class
2020-12-13T17:44:29 < mawk> I also tried nootropics, which aren't drug but more like complements for the brain, it worked a little
2020-12-13T17:44:35 < jadew> I heard ADHD drugs have limitless type of effects
2020-12-13T17:44:40 < mawk> piracetam, noopept, phenylpiracetam, sulbutiamine
2020-12-13T17:44:44 < mawk> yes, ADHD drugs are stimulants
2020-12-13T17:44:52 < mawk> amphetamine, methylphenidate, I tried them all
2020-12-13T17:45:04 < mawk> it made me work like a madman for sure, but not very focused in the right places
2020-12-13T17:45:17 < mawk> it gives you unlimited motivation, but if you use it for the wrong purpose you don't do anything useful
2020-12-13T17:45:33 < mawk> and if you have an addictive personality like me, then you always end up taking too much
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2020-12-13T17:46:13 < Steffanx> <mawk> more like, I would still be extremely shy probably
2020-12-13T17:46:18 < qyx> don'tdo much math
2020-12-13T17:46:18 < Steffanx> you will never know
2020-12-13T17:46:30 < jadew> Steffanx, wanted to say that as well
2020-12-13T17:46:37 < mawk> well I know what happened at that time
2020-12-13T17:46:42 < jadew> time alone changes you in ways you wouldn't believe
2020-12-13T17:46:53 < mawk> I couldn't get anywhere near a human being, then I started taking some magic pillz, and within a month I was talking up everyone
2020-12-13T17:47:11 < Steffanx> i know it did make your taste in music FUCKING TERRIBLE, mawk
2020-12-13T17:47:15 < jadew> I used to be shy too, until my hormones started boiling, then I would hit on chicks 10 leagues above me
2020-12-13T17:47:15 < mawk> then start hanging out with the bad boys smoking joints behind the highschool
2020-12-13T17:47:45 < mawk> it wasn't just with girls
2020-12-13T17:47:48 < mawk> everyone
2020-12-13T17:48:10 < mawk> it gave me a clairvoyant sense of musicality Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:48:16 < mawk> that's what you meant?
2020-12-13T17:48:43 < mawk> how about a little early hardcore for tea time? https://youtu.be/Tpg5OJNfef4
2020-12-13T17:48:44 < Steffanx> jadew "then I would hit on chicks 10 leagues above me".. thats just desperate. not sure what is worse, being shy or being like that.
2020-12-13T17:48:59 < mawk> desperate would be 10 leagues below, Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:49:00 < jadew> haha Steffanx 
2020-12-13T17:49:07 < jadew> what mawk said
2020-12-13T17:49:09 < jadew> I had game tho
2020-12-13T17:49:20 < Steffanx> ok true, desperate is the wrong word.
2020-12-13T17:49:28 < mawk> for me I never hit on any girl, they always came to me
2020-12-13T17:49:41 < mawk> except for the married woman
2020-12-13T17:49:48 < jadew> lol, that's some next level bragging there mawk :)
2020-12-13T17:49:53 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T17:49:59 < mawk> well I didn't say I had a thousand girlfriends
2020-12-13T17:50:06 < mawk> but the few I had, they all came to me by themselves
2020-12-13T17:50:30 < mawk> and with men it's even worse
2020-12-13T17:50:39 < Steffanx> Being like you are is also a romanian thing. At least the romanians i met were also a bit overly confident.
2020-12-13T17:50:55 < Steffanx> And they always share their coffee, WTF why is that.
2020-12-13T17:51:06 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm not sharing anything
2020-12-13T17:51:56 < mawk> almost all the gay men I know did sexual proposals to me
2020-12-13T17:52:08 < dongs> zyp: The appnote ANLAN120 suggests pull-ups just to show that external terminations are needed for the devices without internal biasing and terminations. However, the terminations must be followed according to the device recommendations. So, the figure I have attached in my previous is applicable for KSZ8863 device and works well when interfacing with an external PHY or RJ45.
2020-12-13T17:52:13 < dongs> ^ mchp reply
2020-12-13T17:52:15 < dongs> so idk
2020-12-13T17:52:46 < Steffanx> Im ok with this "happy house" mawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyD0JEFhNc4 :P More "boom boom" and it gets worse.
2020-12-13T17:53:11 < mawk> « haha de Poco-Loco,  a small club in my hometown, where i used to sell xtc to all the good people, chasing girls, drinking, fighting you name it, good times lol. holy shit i'm getting old now, still love music, RIP DJ Marc!!! »
2020-12-13T17:53:15 < mawk> is it you Steffanx ?
2020-12-13T17:53:29 < Steffanx> no clubs in my home town
2020-12-13T17:53:42 < mawk> your home town is paris
2020-12-13T17:53:47 < mawk> remember, NL is part of FR
2020-12-13T17:57:20 < mawk> so jadew what are you going to tell your son?
2020-12-13T17:57:34 < mawk> "some drugs are bad" would have had way more impact on me than "drugs are bad"
2020-12-13T17:57:59 < mawk> and anyway there is a timid wave of decriminalization of cannabis in europe, maybe more to follow
2020-12-13T17:58:19 < mawk> even france, the most repressive country, has decriminalized cannabis possession, now it's just a first class ticket, like a speeding ticket
2020-12-13T17:58:30 < jadew> mawk, I already had the drugs talk
2020-12-13T17:58:42 < mawk> still time to change your mind
2020-12-13T17:58:50 < mawk> better smoke joints with them than have them do it in a dumpster with me
2020-12-13T17:59:05 < Steffanx> Did you have a talk about leaded solder and flux fumes with him as well?
2020-12-13T17:59:12 < mawk> lol
2020-12-13T17:59:12 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah
2020-12-13T18:00:33 < jadew> he knows not to breathe the fumes and to pay attention to tiny solder droplets on my soldering surface
2020-12-13T18:00:59 < Steffanx> if you were a good dad the drops wouldnt be there :P
2020-12-13T18:01:05 < jadew> haha
2020-12-13T18:01:23 < jadew> I do wipe the surface clean as often as possible
2020-12-13T18:13:09 < zyp> dongs, I'm not enough of an expert to say definitely that they are wrong, but I still don't trust it
2020-12-13T18:13:19 < jadew> hmm... wasn't a block scope declaration introduced for while loops in the new c++ standards?
2020-12-13T18:14:21 < zyp> dongs, if I were about to fab a design with this, I'd include the possibility for a solder bridge to 3.3V
2020-12-13T18:15:33 < englishman> UPS marked the vaccine shipment as delivered. The nurses ran to the loading dock but the driver had left and there was no box. Later that day it was marked as undeliverable - recipient not present. The next day the nurses waited on the loading dock all day but at 9pm the package was marked undeliverable - extreme weather. The third day the package arrived 30 minutes after the day shift had ended. The box had
2020-12-13T18:15:33 < englishman> been opened by UPS for inspection after accidental damage and was empty.
2020-12-13T18:16:43 < jadew> englishman, link?
2020-12-13T18:17:06 < jadew> google says no results
2020-12-13T18:17:31 < fenugrec> englishman, true story
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2020-12-13T18:18:29 < jadew> I can't find that story with any search engine
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2020-12-13T18:22:59 < jadew> englishman, where's that from?
2020-12-13T18:38:58 < karlp> I think he's jus tmaking it up to show how happy he is about ups
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2020-12-13T18:51:53 < qyx> lol
2020-12-13T19:02:11 < karlp> ffs. I think I need to find an actual rs232 port somehwere.
2020-12-13T19:03:10 < jadew> ±15 V?
2020-12-13T19:03:33 < karlp> +- 5 apparently on this one at least,
2020-12-13T19:03:43 < karlp> or at least, one of them is idling at -5.
2020-12-13T19:03:48 < karlp> so not ttl at least :)
2020-12-13T19:09:10 < karlp> this wouldwork, but it's gonna take a while https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32734544470.html
2020-12-13T19:11:07 < jadew> will your device tolerate full RS232 swing?
2020-12-13T19:11:24 < jadew> if yes, then you can probably find a USB-to-RS232 cable locally
2020-12-13T19:11:32 < karlp> presumably.
2020-12-13T19:11:49 < karlp> they're all going to have stupid db9 connectors though
2020-12-13T19:11:52 < qyx> ##elec32, redoing my distrib box https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aFIYL.jpg
2020-12-13T19:12:18 < karlp> nice "bus bars" :)
2020-12-13T19:12:19 < qyx> those 2x 10mm2 + 16m2 are going from the roof
2020-12-13T19:12:23 < qyx> lol yeah
2020-12-13T19:12:32 < qyx> because I have forks only
2020-12-13T19:12:34 < jadew> qyx, that's a lot of breakers
2020-12-13T19:12:43 < qyx> I need to buy the other type
2020-12-13T19:15:05 < qyx> also for the bottom DC part, I wasn't able to find anything off-the-shelf capable of handling > 63 A
2020-12-13T19:19:15 < qyx> jadew: why, not that many
2020-12-13T19:20:08 < qyx> 3 rooms, 2 for kitchen, 2 for bathroom, some exterior outlets, water pump, drainage pump, 2 for basement
2020-12-13T19:20:42 < qyx> and not counting lighting
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2020-12-13T19:26:56 < Steffanx> id still like to see some sort of "schematic" of the stuff you have qyx. because i get the idea its A LOT.
2020-12-13T19:30:52 < Steffanx> you must have some sort of plan right?
2020-12-13T19:42:23 < qyx> uhm, in my head
2020-12-13T19:42:53 < Steffanx> hm
2020-12-13T19:44:00 < Steffanx> expected you to be more organized
2020-12-13T19:44:15 < qyx> I had some drawings in the past, I will need to draw it again and make it officxial
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2020-12-13T20:01:13 < qyx> tamed, fuking pythons
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2020-12-13T20:12:05 < R2COM> shit what a roller coaster these 2 months darnit...
2020-12-13T20:12:28 < R2COM> gosh finally all over
2020-12-13T20:13:18 < jpa-> what's over?
2020-12-13T20:13:20 < R2COM> hey, i wonder why RCC in F0 not being updated on a first system start (im doing absolutely bare metal here)
2020-12-13T20:13:31 < R2COM> like, no ST func tions no anything
2020-12-13T20:13:50 < R2COM> i can run anything in my starting program, i.e. all executes and steps etc, no segfaults
2020-12-13T20:14:00 < R2COM> and HSI is on by default
2020-12-13T20:14:12 < R2COM> and can read datasheet defined RC C reset value from RCC
2020-12-13T20:14:25 < R2COM> however, when modifyuing some bit in RCC i cant see result of my modification
2020-12-13T20:16:26 < R2COM> for example, just for sake of a test, if lets say i pretend i write HSEBYP to 1
2020-12-13T20:16:42 < R2COM> i cant see it modified, cuz after i read it i again see original RCC reset value
2020-12-13T20:17:41 < R2COM> not sure what i am missing
2020-12-13T20:17:52 < jpa-> sounds weird indeed
2020-12-13T20:17:54 < R2COM> (i can successfully write/read SCB registers for example no problem)
2020-12-13T20:18:32 < R2COM> struct RCC_s {volatile uint32_t CR; };
2020-12-13T20:18:42 < R2COM> static RCC_s& RCC = *(reinterpret_cast<RCC_s*>(0x4002'1000));
2020-12-13T20:18:45 < R2COM> ^
2020-12-13T20:18:54 < R2COM> that is how its defined
2020-12-13T20:19:04 < R2COM> (for now...ill do different way later, but now it doesnt matter)
2020-12-13T20:19:55 < jpa-> so are you doing the writes & tests from code or from debugger?
2020-12-13T20:20:18 < R2COM> debugger
2020-12-13T20:20:20 < R2COM> ah
2020-12-13T20:20:24 < R2COM> reg::RCC.CR |= static_cast<uint32_t>(0x4'0000);
2020-12-13T20:20:25 < R2COM> ^
2020-12-13T20:20:42 < R2COM> above stuff basically sets CR reg to same value + set bit 18 to high
2020-12-13T20:20:50 < R2COM> xx = *(reinterpret_cast<volatile uint32_t*>(reg::RCC_r::CR));
2020-12-13T20:20:52 < R2COM> ^
2020-12-13T20:20:55 < R2COM> and here i read it
2020-12-13T20:21:07 < R2COM> problem is, xx=0x5283 which is default value upon reset
2020-12-13T20:21:11 < jpa-> does the disassembly look sane?
2020-12-13T20:23:16 < R2COM> https://justpaste.it/45n3c
2020-12-13T20:23:19 < R2COM> seems so yes
2020-12-13T20:24:10 < R2COM> i know that before setting register you need to enable peripheral clock bla bla... but this is RCC
2020-12-13T20:24:22 < jpa-> yeah
2020-12-13T20:24:31 < R2COM> this is first reg one messes with upon powerup
2020-12-13T20:24:41 < R2COM> so i wanna know what litle detail im missing
2020-12-13T20:26:34 < jpa-> i would try to read & write the register from debugger also, just to try to subdivide the problem area
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2020-12-13T20:38:11 < R2COM> wait
2020-12-13T20:38:16 < R2COM> i think i read it if i do 
2020-12-13T20:38:27 < R2COM> x/1x 0x40021000
2020-12-13T20:38:33 < R2COM> thats address of CR
2020-12-13T20:38:41 < R2COM> trying again
2020-12-13T20:39:09 < jpa-> yeah, and   set *(uint32_t*)0x40021000 = 0x45283   would write it
2020-12-13T20:39:20 < R2COM> thats what i did
2020-12-13T20:39:34 < R2COM> ok here is what happens now
2020-12-13T20:39:37 < R2COM> i restarted program
2020-12-13T20:39:52 < R2COM> printing xx variable again returns 0x5283
2020-12-13T20:39:55 < R2COM> however
2020-12-13T20:40:04 < R2COM> doing: x/1x returns proper 0x45283
2020-12-13T20:40:21 < R2COM> meaning that... by the time i stop debugger and read it manually, register got5 updated?
2020-12-13T20:40:36 < R2COM> and in program if xx = ... statement going right after setting statement it didnt make it yet to register?
2020-12-13T20:40:37 < R2COM> or?
2020-12-13T20:40:41 < R2COM> cant think of anything else
2020-12-13T20:40:45 < jpa-> i wonder if it is one of those weird registers that don't get their new value immediately but with a few clock cycles delay; but IIRC that applies only to stuff in backup domain (RTC)
2020-12-13T20:41:01 < fenugrec> R2COM, try a __DSB after your write
2020-12-13T20:41:09 < R2COM> reference manual: Access: no wait state, word, half-word and byte access
2020-12-13T20:41:47 < fenugrec> or a few nops
2020-12-13T20:42:02 < jpa-> cortex-m0 is simple enough that it shouldn't even be doing any fancy reordering and its pipeline is pretty trivial also
2020-12-13T20:42:49 < R2COM> 	__asm__ __volatile__ ("dsb" : : : "memory");
2020-12-13T20:42:51 < fenugrec> I don't know how the debugger behaves wrt pipeline when single-stepping
2020-12-13T20:42:52 < R2COM> did not solve it
2020-12-13T20:43:06 < R2COM> 	reg::RCC.CR |= static_cast<uint32_t>(0x4'0000);
2020-12-13T20:43:06 < R2COM> 	__asm__ __volatile__ ("dsb" : : : "memory");
2020-12-13T20:43:06 < R2COM> 	xx = *(reinterpret_cast<volatile uint32_t*>(reg::RCC_r::CR));
2020-12-13T20:43:21 < R2COM> ^ does not work either, if i read xx it again prints 0x5283
2020-12-13T20:43:22 < R2COM> but
2020-12-13T20:43:35 < R2COM> if i do x/1xx 0x40021000 it does print 0x45283
2020-12-13T20:44:07 < R2COM> meaning that debugger did read proper bit which i set with above statement
2020-12-13T20:44:11 < R2COM> but why xx was not assigned to it
2020-12-13T20:46:09 < jpa-> R2COM: heh, is your xx variable uint16_t? :)
2020-12-13T20:46:20 < R2COM> static volatile uint16_t xx = 0;
2020-12-13T20:46:23 < R2COM> errr
2020-12-13T20:46:24 < R2COM> wait
2020-12-13T20:46:28 < jpa-> didn't spot the "strh" in disassembly earlier :D
2020-12-13T20:46:50 < R2COM> jeez
2020-12-13T20:47:30 < R2COM> of course now it works
2020-12-13T20:50:09 < R2COM> why are there 6 lines of assembly code for just setting mem location
2020-12-13T20:51:00 < R2COM> so it works now i corrected it
2020-12-13T20:51:00 < R2COM> but
2020-12-13T20:51:04 < R2COM> here just for interest
2020-12-13T20:51:05 < R2COM> https://ctxt.io/2/AACgoislFA
2020-12-13T20:51:37 < R2COM> oh
2020-12-13T20:51:45 < R2COM> it literally converts it yes
2020-12-13T20:51:47 < R2COM> see
2020-12-13T20:51:50 < R2COM> orrs
2020-12-13T20:51:55 < R2COM> is that OR thing
2020-12-13T20:52:14 < R2COM> so thats the reason why i feel all this shit is not quite efficient runtime wise
2020-12-13T20:52:24 < R2COM> what i mean is... read-then-write type of thing for register setting
2020-12-13T20:52:42 < R2COM> in some cases its needed of course, but mostly, you know what your reg should be, so you should just write value you need
2020-12-13T20:52:47 < R2COM> without any extra operations
2020-12-13T20:53:06 < R2COM> ST's code is full of those "read-see-compare-logical-write things
2020-12-13T20:53:17 < Steffanx> Time for your daily comment on C++, karlp :P
2020-12-13T20:53:17 < R2COM> not runtimewise at all
2020-12-13T20:53:59 < R2COM> of course there are many instructions..im doing lots of stuff, i read, i do logical on read value and then put all back
2020-12-13T20:54:41 < jpa-> one could use bit banding to do it in one write, but it's rarely useful unless one writes one bit very often
2020-12-13T20:55:09 < R2COM> no what i say is ... write the whole register right away and done
2020-12-13T20:55:29 < R2COM> and do all register-level settings operation as constexpr during compile time
2020-12-13T20:55:38 < R2COM> so in runtime only one whole word written
2020-12-13T20:58:26 < R2COM> 	template<typename T>
2020-12-13T20:58:26 < R2COM> 	inline static volatile void set(const uint32_t addr, T value)
2020-12-13T20:58:27 < R2COM> 	{
2020-12-13T20:58:27 < R2COM> 		*reinterpret_cast<volatile T*>(addr) = value;
2020-12-13T20:58:27 < R2COM> 	}
2020-12-13T20:58:28 < R2COM> ^
2020-12-13T20:58:31 < R2COM> here how i did it now
2020-12-13T20:58:44 < R2COM> and i am setting value this way:
2020-12-13T20:58:46 < R2COM> reg::set(reg::RCC_r::CR, 0x45283);
2020-12-13T20:59:19 < R2COM> https://ctxt.io/2/AACgLilWEg
2020-12-13T20:59:40 < R2COM> 3 instructions
2020-12-13T21:00:35 < R2COM> and xx is set properly of course
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2020-12-13T22:30:41 < karlp> paste expired already.
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2020-12-13T22:39:45 < qyx> unfortunate
2020-12-13T22:40:09 < karlp> probably not..
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2020-12-13T23:02:21 < R2COM> so in some situations read-write is a must, but i see for most code where ST's libs do that, its really not necessary
2020-12-13T23:02:41 < R2COM> (in case of RCC itself actually it might be needed cuz of default cal/trim values)
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2020-12-13T23:06:55 < R2COM> i have even better idea
2020-12-13T23:06:56 < R2COM> look here:
2020-12-13T23:06:58 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/34GmuhBVTb5HeKceyZZspzh
2020-12-13T23:07:07 < R2COM> see, i wrote a variadic template for register setting
2020-12-13T23:07:20 < R2COM> (called it func2, it needs to be called RegSet or whatever)
2020-12-13T23:07:24 < R2COM> but it works like this now:
2020-12-13T23:07:34 < R2COM> reg::func2(reg::RCC_r::CR, 0x5283, 0x4'0000, 0x8'0000);
2020-12-13T23:07:41 < R2COM> first argument is address of any register
2020-12-13T23:07:55 < R2COM> and then any (variable) amount of arguments separated by comma
2020-12-13T23:08:06 < R2COM> no need to do this | acrobatics for setting stuff
2020-12-13T23:08:12 < R2COM> arguments are bit settings
2020-12-13T23:08:25 < R2COM> the compiler unrwaps it in constant expression at compile time
2020-12-13T23:08:46 < R2COM> i tested and it works same, and as compact in asm as previous example
2020-12-13T23:10:01 < R2COM> this is so much better... i will not need to create new structure for new peripheral port and then screw around accessing structure and ORing settings etc
2020-12-13T23:10:09 < R2COM> just one line with arguments and its done
2020-12-13T23:10:15 < R2COM> less typing also
2020-12-13T23:19:35 < Steffanx> How is writing reg::func2(reg::RCC_r::CR, 0x5283, 0x4'0000, 0x8'0000); more fast than reg::RCC_r::CR = 0x5283 | 0x4'0000 |  0x8'0000;
2020-12-13T23:20:11 < antto> ah, templatez
2020-12-13T23:22:21 < Steffanx> you love it, i know it antto
2020-12-13T23:23:02 < antto> i didn't say that, but i generally think using C when C++ is also available is kinda dumb
2020-12-13T23:24:15 < antto> i was recently fiddling with a "safer bitfields" C++ class..
2020-12-13T23:24:56 < antto> https://godbolt.org/z/EK4dEn
2020-12-13T23:52:15 < karlp> Steffanx: gotta have that c++ job protection rite?
--- Day changed Mon Dec 14 2020
2020-12-14T00:00:58 < R2COM> Cyberpunk 2077 on my 2080 6x OC'ed 4.2GHz machine does 30 fps with 4k and RTX all ultra settings..lol wtf
2020-12-14T00:10:48 < Steffanx> Oh that was the game you have to "hack" to let it use all cores of the AMD stuff 
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2020-12-14T00:29:41 < Steffanx> Lol karlp . Im not anti C++ and can see some benefits ;)
2020-12-14T00:30:19 < Steffanx> But not with stuff like above
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2020-12-14T01:18:31 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NV8aIredcNe6PCr1NX3heKMYKCBSKfuK/view?usp=sharing my v6 cam timing tools
2020-12-14T01:22:27 < Steffanx> Dont die kakium69 
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2020-12-14T01:32:20 < qyx> grumffanx
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2020-12-14T02:40:26 < Steffanx> Nooo, I just care about his wellbeing, qyx 
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2020-12-14T03:15:49 < jadew> R2COM, where have you been? were you sick or something?
2020-12-14T03:16:11 < R2COM> no i was not sick
2020-12-14T03:16:54 < jadew> well, that's good
2020-12-14T03:16:57 < jadew> I thought you got covid
2020-12-14T03:18:11 < R2COM> appreciate your attention
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2020-12-14T03:18:53 < jadew> I also noticed you're not in my friends list on steam anymore, did you remove me?
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2020-12-14T03:20:40 < R2COM> dunno maybe
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2020-12-14T03:32:14 < mawk> I left default priorities for irq handlers in nrf, and it hardfaults
2020-12-14T03:32:30 < mawk> probably i need to tweak priority, but don't know where to look for
2020-12-14T03:33:11 < dongs> < zyp> dongs, if I were about to fab a design with this, I'd include the possibility for a solder bridge to 3.3V
2020-12-14T03:33:29 < dongs> thats what im gonna do, i will add the 3V3 pull + 0R for cap or R
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2020-12-14T03:36:07 < R2COM> jadew what you think of this: https://paste.ofcode.org/7HKnK4i82VrJu27e9KASfE
2020-12-14T03:36:17 < R2COM> this is a way i decided to do register read/write functions
2020-12-14T03:36:31 < R2COM> and access them like that:
2020-12-14T03:36:32 < R2COM> 	setreg(RCC::CR, 0x5280, 0x4'0000, 0x8'0000);
2020-12-14T03:36:32 < R2COM> 	getreg(RCC::CR, xx);
2020-12-14T03:36:50 < R2COM> setreg is variadic, and you can just add any amount of settings after comma
2020-12-14T03:37:01 < R2COM> and getreg reads it into variable provided as reference
2020-12-14T03:38:10 < jadew> looks good I guess
2020-12-14T03:38:12 < R2COM> small typo there: getreg should be inside: rdval = *(reinterpret_cast<volatile T*>(addr));
2020-12-14T03:38:24 < jadew> LeelooMinai did something interesting with registers
2020-12-14T03:38:33 < R2COM> its much more cool than traditional FLAG0 | FLAG1 | ... etc
2020-12-14T03:38:49 < jadew> she basically made it so you can't assign bad values to them
2020-12-14T03:39:00 < R2COM> i could do it too
2020-12-14T03:39:10 < R2COM> just specialization, but the problem is code becomes too bloated
2020-12-14T03:39:20 < jadew> yeah, it was a lot of code
2020-12-14T03:39:21 < R2COM> especially with my special feature of variadic template
2020-12-14T03:39:25 < jadew> but the result was pretty neat
2020-12-14T03:39:42 < zyp> R2COM, I dicked around with similar stuff last week
2020-12-14T03:39:47 < R2COM> yeah but that hermaphrodite most likely used simple functions not variable functions
2020-12-14T03:40:02 < R2COM> and im using variadic stuff, variadic + strongly typed = really lots of code
2020-12-14T03:40:24 < zyp> R2COM, https://godbolt.org/z/YYj7x3
2020-12-14T03:40:30 < R2COM> zyp im trying to think is it worth now getting overly "type constraint paranoid" and make bloated code or just leave there where i am
2020-12-14T03:40:49 < zyp> just leave
2020-12-14T03:40:55 < mawk> I guess if the memory fault status register is filled up after the hardfault, then hardfault is because of memoryfault? it contains 0x03d09060
2020-12-14T03:41:40 < zyp> R2COM, too much fancy c++ turns it into a hassle instead of a convenience
2020-12-14T03:41:57 < R2COM> i think so too...cuz its me who writes low level driver anyway...so... whoever does it knows that you not putting TIM1 flags into RCC registers....
2020-12-14T03:42:28 < zyp> my goal is to keep code short and simple
2020-12-14T03:42:46 < mawk> this is in the code "RAM region"
2020-12-14T03:42:53 < mawk> "code RAM" region*
2020-12-14T03:42:57 < zyp> which implies that C++ features that reduces code verbosity is good, C++ features that increases code verbosity is bad
2020-12-14T03:43:18 < R2COM> and need to be compliant to this right: https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf 
2020-12-14T03:43:21 < R2COM> he he...
2020-12-14T03:43:26 < jadew> well, sometimes a bit of verbosity is good
2020-12-14T03:43:38 < jadew> like having named bit fields - that's pretty nice
2020-12-14T03:44:03 < zyp> also, I'm probably not gonna use that initializer_list stuff I linked to, it works well for 1-3 fields, but once I add in four gcc stops constant folding it
2020-12-14T03:44:13 < R2COM> see... F35 air superiority program also suggests using templates
2020-12-14T03:44:31 < R2COM> hah
2020-12-14T03:44:44 < zyp> but the general idea is good
2020-12-14T03:45:24 < zyp> I kinda like that way of putting fields into named registers, it's the least verbose method of achieving that I've found
2020-12-14T03:45:57 < jadew> I like it too
2020-12-14T03:52:26 < R2COM> wow wtf is godbolt
2020-12-14T03:53:23 < zyp> it's useful to test how well various compiler versions deals with a piece of code
2020-12-14T03:53:41 < R2COM> even if you take fraction of code
2020-12-14T03:53:59 < R2COM> without dependent portion
2020-12-14T03:54:38 < zyp> well, the point in this case was to see whether the compiler is smart enough to constant fold the entire expression
2020-12-14T03:55:15 < R2COM> yeah
2020-12-14T03:55:21 < R2COM> but i thought with templates it always tries that
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2020-12-14T03:55:50 < zyp> why?
2020-12-14T03:56:05 < R2COM> i think i read it somewhere cant recall
2020-12-14T03:56:35 < zyp> template arguments are obviously compile time constants, but that doesn't mean that template functions will always get folded
2020-12-14T03:58:05 < R2COM> what if the arguments to those functions are constexpr?
2020-12-14T03:58:22 < R2COM> from structure
2020-12-14T03:58:29 < zyp> go ahead and check for yourself
2020-12-14T03:58:39 < zyp> I'm going back to bed, it's 3AM here
2020-12-14T03:58:45 < R2COM> cya
2020-12-14T03:59:12 < R2COM> i checked mine by looking at disassembly listing it was same amount of lines as if i just set memory address implicitly
2020-12-14T03:59:16 < R2COM> explicitly i mean
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2020-12-14T04:39:23 < machinehum> mawk: ty
2020-12-14T04:44:21 < machinehum> But I wanna do the = { bla , bla } and list all the objects
2020-12-14T04:44:28 < machinehum> I feel like it's not possible
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2020-12-14T05:21:57 < R2COM> ok here it is
2020-12-14T05:21:58 < R2COM> https://godbolt.org/z/Wa33e8
2020-12-14T05:22:06 < R2COM> i made compact code in that godbolt
2020-12-14T05:22:16 < R2COM> with my implementation of c++ register write/read
2020-12-14T05:22:32 < R2COM> now on the left you see two types of code VARIANT A and VARIANT B
2020-12-14T05:22:40 < R2COM> both generate same assembly
2020-12-14T05:22:59 < R2COM> i.e. directly explicitly writing to memory, or using rather complex variadic template structure i made
2020-12-14T05:23:05 < R2COM> no penalty for performance
2020-12-14T05:35:19 < R2COM> ill just have tho think maybe if it would be better to store settings of a register in a different structure, not in a same structure where register's address stored
2020-12-14T05:35:54 < R2COM> https://godbolt.org/z/Kfa8z4
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2020-12-14T06:21:17 < R2COM> fuck in tired
2020-12-14T06:21:26 < R2COM> its time to pour some wine and start Cyberpunk 2077
2020-12-14T06:21:36 < R2COM> wine with cheese
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2020-12-14T07:47:53 < R2COM> jadew add me again to steam
2020-12-14T07:48:06 < R2COM> if you dont have me
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2020-12-14T09:13:40 < dongs> lol cyberpunk
2020-12-14T09:13:44 < dongs> Shit Game of the Year
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2020-12-14T10:15:35 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/caps.jpg   it's starting to feel like that stacking more and more caps and ferrites is not going to solve my noise problem
2020-12-14T10:16:31 < zyp> pff, your stack is just not tall enough
2020-12-14T10:16:32 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/m0yyr.JPG
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2020-12-14T10:18:14 < jpa-> i guess i'll try my luck with lower frequency dc-dc converters next
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2020-12-14T11:08:37 < karlp> Steffanx: I can see the benefits too, I wsa just talking about r2com's "look, I wrote a bunch of c++ tat lets me avoid using  '|' for making bit masks!
2020-12-14T11:12:04 < karlp> and why would you prefer getreg(rgname, destination) ins tead of destination = getreg(regname)
2020-12-14T11:17:49 < jpa-> it would catch the bug R2COM had last night (truncating 32-bit register to uint16_t variable) :)
2020-12-14T11:19:02 < karlp> would it? surely his thing would have had support for reding 16bit registers too,
2020-12-14T11:19:29 < jpa-> true
2020-12-14T11:20:09 < srk> Komodo CAN Solo .. Price: $350.00
2020-12-14T11:20:10 < srk> ahaha
2020-12-14T11:21:44 < srk> there's this fun SPI thingie where the perif checks if you use 8 bit or 16 bit write and sets length based on that
2020-12-14T11:23:42 < mawk> probably not with new, machinehum 
2020-12-14T11:23:50 < mawk> well you can surely do it with template magic though
2020-12-14T11:23:54 < mawk> but that's ugly
2020-12-14T11:24:04 < mawk> unless you hide it well
2020-12-14T11:25:01 < srk> but that's C++
2020-12-14T11:38:53 < zyp> mawk, for «(a * b) % c == d», if I know a, c and d, can I find b without iterating and testing?
2020-12-14T11:40:04 < Steffanx> Are you going to use mawk's math for real practical problems now?
2020-12-14T11:40:21 < zyp> no, just AoC )
2020-12-14T11:40:22 < zyp> :)
2020-12-14T11:40:25 < mawk> yes zyp 
2020-12-14T11:40:48 < mawk> if d != 0 and gcd(a, c) = 1
2020-12-14T11:40:56 < mawk> if d % c != 0 should I say
2020-12-14T11:41:11 < mawk> then b = a⁻¹d mod c
2020-12-14T11:41:28 < mawk> to compute a⁻¹ you have the extended euclide algorithm which is very easy to do
2020-12-14T11:41:37 < zyp> a is prime
2020-12-14T11:41:41 < mawk> and if c is prime, then a⁻¹ is also exp(a, c-2, c)
2020-12-14T11:41:54 < mawk> then it's coprime with c
2020-12-14T11:42:12 < zyp> ah, yeah, c is also prime
2020-12-14T11:42:28 < mawk> then yes exp(a, c-2, c) is the inverse of a
2020-12-14T11:42:31 < mawk> it's little fermat's theorem
2020-12-14T11:42:34 < mawk> a^(p-1) = 1 mod p
2020-12-14T11:44:02 < zyp> wtf does even exp(a, c-2, c) mean?
2020-12-14T11:44:07 < mawk> it's python
2020-12-14T11:44:16 < mawk> it's a^(c-2) mod c
2020-12-14T11:44:22 < mawk> hmm it's pow sorry
2020-12-14T11:44:24 < mawk> not exp
2020-12-14T11:44:26 < mawk> pow(a, c-2, c)
2020-12-14T11:44:36 < mawk> pow(a, b, c) is computing a**b % c in an efficient manner
2020-12-14T11:44:40 < mawk> so even if b is very large it's quick
2020-12-14T11:45:00 < mawk> it's use fast exponentiation
2020-12-14T11:45:03 < zyp> ah
2020-12-14T11:45:18 < mawk> same complexity as euclide algorithm, but already done by python
2020-12-14T11:46:12 < mawk> if c isn't prime then the exponent is not c-2 but φ(c)-1, and to know φ(c) you need to know its prime factor decomposition, φ(c) is the number of numbers < c that are coprime with c
2020-12-14T11:46:14 < zyp> TypeError: pow expected 2 arguments, got 3
2020-12-14T11:46:23 < mawk> all must be integer
2020-12-14T11:46:31 < zyp> they are
2020-12-14T11:46:40 < mawk> are you using python 3?
2020-12-14T11:46:56 < zyp> yes
2020-12-14T11:47:13 < mawk> even in 3.5 there is the 3 argument form of pow
2020-12-14T11:47:13 < zyp> 3.8
2020-12-14T11:47:16 < mawk> it's just pow, not math.pow
2020-12-14T11:47:19 < zyp> ah
2020-12-14T11:47:29 < zyp> right
2020-12-14T11:47:40 < mawk> you can also do pow(a, -1, c) directly in 3.8
2020-12-14T11:47:47 < mawk> then c doesn't even need to be prime
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2020-12-14T11:48:32 < zyp> neat
2020-12-14T11:49:01 < zyp> okay, I don't understand the math behind this, but it gives me the correct result, good enough
2020-12-14T11:49:16 < mawk> well it's like regular multiplication
2020-12-14T11:49:23 < mawk> if you have ab = c, you do b = c/a
2020-12-14T11:49:31 < effractur> you can do module after every multiplication
2020-12-14T11:49:34 < mawk> which you can also write ca⁻¹
2020-12-14T11:49:55 < zyp> mawk, so did you do day 13 yet? :p
2020-12-14T11:50:00 < mawk> lol no
2020-12-14T11:52:02 < mawk> so do you understand? if for a number a it was possible to find a number a⁻¹ such that aa⁻¹ = 1, then that a⁻¹ can be used a a "modular inverse"
2020-12-14T11:52:19 < mawk> such that when you have ab, to recover b you multiply by a⁻¹
2020-12-14T11:52:34 < mawk> and actually that a⁻¹ always exists when a is coprime with c
2020-12-14T11:52:58 < mawk> and you can find it with the euclide algorithm
2020-12-14T11:53:03 < mawk> and also prove its existence
2020-12-14T11:53:10 < zyp> fair enough
2020-12-14T11:53:53 < mawk> some toy cryptography is based on this
2020-12-14T11:54:07 < mawk> your encryption function is f(x) = (ax + b) mod n
2020-12-14T11:54:27 < mawk> and the decryption is f⁻¹(y) = (a⁻¹[y-b]) mod n
2020-12-14T11:54:42 < mawk> it's an affine cipher
2020-12-14T11:55:55 < mawk> you can scale it up and do it block by block, like f(x, y) = (a1x + a2y + a3; b1x + b2y + b3) mod n
2020-12-14T11:56:08 < mawk> which is like affine cipher but with matrices instead of just numbers
2020-12-14T11:56:13 < mawk> and that's Hill cipher
2020-12-14T11:57:04 < mawk> affine cipher is nothing more than a substitution cipher, but the substitution table is described by a single number instead of a whole 2×26 array
2020-12-14T11:58:10 < mawk> and in other news, that's how pseudorandom number generators work, by repeatedly applying ax + b mod c, when a and c are chosen wisely it gives quite good results
2020-12-14T11:58:29 < mawk> and when they're not chosen wisely, this happens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RANDU
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2020-12-14T12:17:16 < Steffanx> Php used to have that issue mawk.
2020-12-14T12:17:28 < Steffanx> Good old times
2020-12-14T12:17:32 < mawk> that doesn't surprize me
2020-12-14T12:17:53 < Steffanx> I know
2020-12-14T12:20:13 < zyp> mawk, my AoC 13 solution, featuring your math: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/IS1Ma
2020-12-14T12:20:19 < Steffanx> Thats why you love PHP
2020-12-14T12:21:43 < mawk> nice zyp 
2020-12-14T12:21:45 < mawk> with a reduce
2020-12-14T12:22:42 < zyp> reduce is awesome
2020-12-14T12:22:56 < zyp> my aoc solutions are full of reduce :p
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2020-12-14T14:01:03 < jadew> is youtube down?
2020-12-14T14:02:07 < Streaker> somebody in ##electronics says youtube/google auth services is down.
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2020-12-14T14:02:15 < Streaker> works for me though.
2020-12-14T14:03:15 < srk> yotube doesn't work for me :D
2020-12-14T14:05:04 < qyx> works here
2020-12-14T14:05:12 < qyx> jadew: I'll kill you
2020-12-14T14:05:19 < qyx> I started youtubing now instead of working
2020-12-14T14:05:24 < qyx> interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2AbP3bLyxo
2020-12-14T14:06:03 < zyp> youtube down here too
2020-12-14T14:06:55 < jadew> heh qyx 
2020-12-14T14:09:19 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-12-14T14:09:24 < qyx> reminds me https://youtu.be/1s-y2LxABqE?t=322
2020-12-14T14:09:33 < srk> lol "without adblock it works"
2020-12-14T14:09:59 < srk> rofl, youtube-dl still works
2020-12-14T14:10:02 < zyp> srk, makes no difference here
2020-12-14T14:10:58 < srk> adblock one is a joke ;)
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2020-12-14T14:11:48 < jadew> no difference here either
2020-12-14T14:12:03 < jadew> I get the dumb looking monkey
2020-12-14T14:14:24 < BrainDamage> there's quite a few people complaining in the arch linux channel too
2020-12-14T14:14:45 < mawk> there's a monkey that says "something went wrong"
2020-12-14T14:14:56 < BrainDamage> so I guess depends on which server of the CDN you're hooked on
2020-12-14T14:15:09 < Streaker> they're saying it works if you don't log in.
2020-12-14T14:15:40 < zyp> true, works in incognito here
2020-12-14T14:16:10 < qyx> doesn't work in private window here (I am logged in only in private window)
2020-12-14T14:16:16 < qyx> when not logged in, works
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2020-12-14T14:20:40 < jadew> qyx, you're right
2020-12-14T14:20:43 < jadew> you fixed youtube
2020-12-14T14:21:03 < jadew> when not logged in the feed is pure trash
2020-12-14T14:21:27 < BrainDamage> gmail fails to login here
2020-12-14T14:21:35 < BrainDamage> not the web interface, the imap backend
2020-12-14T14:22:12 < BrainDamage> so they probably screwed up some internal auth server
2020-12-14T14:22:19 < jadew> I think it's just the weekly e-mail and tracking information download to china
2020-12-14T14:22:34 < jadew> it takes a toll on the servers
2020-12-14T14:23:37 < englishman> https://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status
2020-12-14T14:23:41 < englishman> most of it is down
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2020-12-14T14:24:27 < englishman> a week after fireeye gets hacked
2020-12-14T14:25:06 < qyx> ok, hangouts stopped working
2020-12-14T14:30:36 < benishor> youtube too, gmail too
2020-12-14T14:30:37 < benishor> contacts, calendar, drive
2020-12-14T14:31:04 < englishman> going to start holding meetings on efnet
2020-12-14T14:32:26 < karlp> build with cpu governor at performance ~identical to governor set to powersave
2020-12-14T14:32:42 < karlp> intel_pstate apparently doing what it says it does, "the right thing"
2020-12-14T14:43:54 < qyx> you are saving your time with faster builds
2020-12-14T14:46:26 < karlp> old laptop was maybe half an hour? or at least it felt like it.
2020-12-14T14:46:28 < BrainDamage> karlp: do you have turbo boost enabled? otherwise performance goveronor is useless
2020-12-14T14:46:34 < karlp> new one is ~16minutes.
2020-12-14T14:46:42 < karlp> desktop from a couple of years ago is ~9minutes
2020-12-14T14:47:12 < zyp> what are you building?
2020-12-14T14:47:29 < karlp> BrainDamage: cpupower frequency-info says "boost state support: supported: yes, active: yes" so.. I guess so?
2020-12-14T14:47:41 < karlp> full openwrt image for our system setup.
2020-12-14T14:47:49 < zyp> ah, neat
2020-12-14T14:48:16 < karlp> that's just a clean and rebuild, after toolchains and shit are all downloaded and built
2020-12-14T14:48:27 < karlp> good enough for loosely checking how new laptop compares
2020-12-14T14:49:21 < zyp> that reminds me, I got another embedded linux project coming up
2020-12-14T14:50:31 < zyp> I wonder if I should give buildroot a try, or try beating openembedded/yocto into submission
2020-12-14T14:50:41 < qyx> are you giving away tools from the old one?
2020-12-14T14:51:00 < qyx> I want the intel thing :X
2020-12-14T14:51:07 < karlp> what?
2020-12-14T14:51:13 < zyp> qyx, what thing?
2020-12-14T14:53:06 < qyx> the zyp's thing with the fpga m.2 board inside
2020-12-14T14:53:24 < zyp> oh, that's unrelated, that's just running plain debian
2020-12-14T14:54:04 < zyp> I kinda like the layered approach of openembedded, but so far I've tried it twice and what I remember best from each time is that everything takes fucking forever
2020-12-14T14:54:53 < zyp> so it might be worth giving buildroot a spin to see how I like it
2020-12-14T14:56:00 < qyx> it feels dumb sometimes
2020-12-14T14:56:03 < zyp> also need to work out a good way to do system updates
2020-12-14T14:56:06 < qyx> do you want to *remove* a package?
2020-12-14T14:56:12 < qyx> yeah, make clean && make all
2020-12-14T14:57:03 < qyx> idk if it cleans the toolchain too, don't remember now
2020-12-14T15:07:26 < dongs> sup cap stackers
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2020-12-14T15:10:22 < zyp> stacking caps
2020-12-14T15:13:27 -!- ThatDamnRanga [~ThatDamnR@unaffiliated/wiretap] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-12-14T15:13:49 < jpa-> i ordered some more caps to stack
2020-12-14T15:14:16 < jadew> yep, e-mail isn't working
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2020-12-14T15:56:07 < zyp> mawk, read through the convo from earlier again, now I think I'm getting it
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2020-12-14T15:59:15 < mawk> good!
2020-12-14T15:59:39 < mawk> so to find a modular inverse, when you don't have magic python, you do euclide's algorithm
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2020-12-14T16:00:18 < mawk> modular inverse of 5 mod 7 for instance, you do euclide on 7 and 5: 7 = 1·5 + 2, 5 = 2·2 + 1, then you start from the end, isolate the 1
2020-12-14T16:01:15 < mawk> 1 = 5 - 2·2 = 5 - 2·(7-1·5) = 3·5 - 2·7
2020-12-14T16:01:27 < mawk> so if you take that mod 7, you have 3·5 = 1 mod 7
2020-12-14T16:01:31 < mawk> so that's it, the inverse of 5 is 3
2020-12-14T16:01:51 < mawk> euclide has complexity O(log(n))
2020-12-14T16:01:57 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/av3Vq/Screenshot_2020-12-14_15-01-41.png
2020-12-14T16:01:57 < mawk> pretty efficient
2020-12-14T16:02:00 < qyx> theres even some space left
2020-12-14T16:06:33 < jpa-> that's fun to repair once the battery leaks :)
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2020-12-14T16:08:40 < mawk> you get it zyp ? on the simple example
2020-12-14T16:08:44 < mawk> that's very likely how python is doing
2020-12-14T16:09:07 < mawk> the pow(n, p-2, p) trick only works when p is prime, if p isn't prime you need to know its prime factor decomposition which sucks
2020-12-14T16:10:36 < karlp> protips: use a 100pin board to board connect, but make sure to still solder a lead across the two boards anyway.
2020-12-14T16:11:51 < jpa-> ground wire for emc? :)
2020-12-14T16:12:55 < zyp> mawk, so we reformat it into 1 = 3 * 5 - 2 * 7, and since 2 * 7 % 7 == 0 we drop that term
2020-12-14T16:13:05 < mawk> yes
2020-12-14T16:13:15 < mawk> by the way you can also take mod 5 instead of mod 7
2020-12-14T16:13:16 < zyp> which leave us with a * a^-1 = 1
2020-12-14T16:13:19 < mawk> then you get the inverse of 7 mod 5
2020-12-14T16:13:24 < mawk> you two for the price of one
2020-12-14T16:13:28 < mawk> yeah exactly
2020-12-14T16:13:43 < zyp> yeah
2020-12-14T16:14:47 < mawk> you can do the "reverse" step at the same time as doing the forward step by computing a few more coefficients in the algorithm, then it's called extended euclide algorithm
2020-12-14T16:15:07 < mawk> these coeffients u and v such that 5u + 7v = 1 are called the Bézout coefficients of 5 and 7
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2020-12-14T16:15:14 < mawk> it works only when gcd(5, 7) = 1 of course
2020-12-14T16:15:53 < qyx> jpa-: hopefulyl lithium doesn't leak
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2020-12-14T16:20:11 < zyp> AoC 13.2 gives you a bunch of prime periods with offsets, and you need to figure out the lowest n for which (n + offset) % prime == 0 is true for all of them
2020-12-14T16:20:53 < zyp> periods are easy to reduce by just multiplying them together, since it's all primes
2020-12-14T16:21:24 < zyp> and then the modulo stuff to reduce the offsets
2020-12-14T16:38:33 < karlp> hrm, I think my "mono repo" is causing some fairly slow builds, as the same repo with it's submodules is checked out each time for each of the apps built from that repo
2020-12-14T16:44:30 < qyx> any known working code for stop mode on L4?
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2020-12-14T16:56:42 < qyx> also
2020-12-14T16:57:40 < qyx> karlp: you may know, did you find any dual radio (2.4/5 GHz) module?
2020-12-14T16:59:18 < karlp> wifi?
2020-12-14T16:59:40 < karlp> haven't really looked, "wifi-4" ("wifi for iot" or n grade) is finne for me...
2020-12-14T16:59:54 < karlp> ac and dual shits are all priced more than I feel is reasonable
2020-12-14T17:00:33 < karlp> most all the dual / ac shits are all minipcie or m2 or whatever too
2020-12-14T17:01:50 < qyx> hm, I am looking for something to do mesh at 5g
2020-12-14T17:01:59 < qyx> between devices
2020-12-14T17:02:10 < zyp> like those 8devices modules?
2020-12-14T17:02:33 < qyx> haven't seen them
2020-12-14T17:03:03 < zyp> https://www.8devices.com/
2020-12-14T17:04:49 < qyx> oh they look good
2020-12-14T17:05:00 < qyx> exactly like that
2020-12-14T17:05:37 < karlp> yeah, they have a bunch of stuff for new 5ghz stuff too, but yeah, sorry, not really interesting/applicable for me.
2020-12-14T17:06:38 < karlp> saw this the other day thouhg: https://www.lm-technologies.com/product/wifi-802-11ac-bluetooth-5-0-2t2r-combi-usb-module-lm843/
2020-12-14T17:08:00 < qyx> habanero is okish except it is concurrent dualband and not dualradio
2020-12-14T17:08:34 < karlp> you're getting into very specifics :)
2020-12-14T17:19:09 < mawk> karlp: you can speed it up with a local cache to clone from in your build pipeline
2020-12-14T17:19:15 < mawk> or fix the architecture and not have the same module 10 times
2020-12-14T17:19:43 < mawk> download a git bundle at the beggining of your pipeline, and clone from the bundle instead of the url; that requires patching the .gitmodules files though probably
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2020-12-14T17:21:36 < karlp> "fix the architecture to not have the same module" means what exactly?
2020-12-14T17:21:50 < karlp> it's a single repo with a couple of submodules so it _can_ be shared across different apps
2020-12-14T17:22:06 < karlp> buildroot builds each app from that repo though, and reclones them all.
2020-12-14T17:24:14 < jpa-> would it be possible to make it as a single app with several binaries?
2020-12-14T17:24:20 < jpa-> (i've never used buildroot)
2020-12-14T17:25:00 < karlp> jpa-: that would probably be the easiest way to coerce buildroot, yes.
2020-12-14T17:25:43 < karlp> hrm. do I want to write a kernel driver or a user space driver...
2020-12-14T17:25:51 < jpa-> it also seems that buildroot supports download cache for git repos, somehow
2020-12-14T17:26:12 < karlp> yeah, it should be saving in the cache the ttop level repo, it seems to be the submoudles it doesn't recognize
2020-12-14T17:26:48 < karlp> s/should/is/
2020-12-14T17:27:53 < karlp> oh, this is just because I was rebuilding clean for timing.
2020-12-14T17:28:09 < karlp> well, it still fetches them multiple times, but it's just up front.
2020-12-14T17:28:16 < karlp> fuck it. not goign to waste more time on it.
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2020-12-14T18:16:10 < mawk> I removed the nrf MBR stuff and now hardfault is gone
2020-12-14T18:16:15 < mawk> it seems it cannot properly forward irqs
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2020-12-14T18:16:23 < mawk> probably it expects a softdevice thing
2020-12-14T18:16:58 < mawk> but now I need to debug why
2020-12-14T18:20:15 < mawk> I thought I was stupid and couldn't even use a pwm peripheral without having a fault
2020-12-14T18:20:23 < mawk> but actually it's just the preloaded shit on this board that did this
2020-12-14T18:21:38 < jpa-> that's nrf for you
2020-12-14T18:21:47 < jpa-> at least 4 bootloaders and annoying binary blobs
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2020-12-14T19:00:07 < fenugrec> google services down this morning , connected devices (i.e. lights) were affected. iot is the future
2020-12-14T19:00:48 < fenugrec> why anyone sane would want everything in their home logged in to google is beyond me
2020-12-14T19:11:00 < specing> nobody understands anything any more
2020-12-14T19:11:36 < specing> everyone is happily using google, amazon, github, ms, .. services
2020-12-14T19:12:28 < jadew> stupid google signed me off from every email account I had in thunderbird
2020-12-14T19:12:42 < jadew> now I have to recover all the passwords
2020-12-14T19:12:49 < Steffanx> Luckily you can use Ada now, specing  
2020-12-14T19:12:51 < Steffanx> https://github.com/home-assistant/ada
2020-12-14T19:13:22 < specing> lmao
2020-12-14T19:31:22 -!- spacebyte [~tsm@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-14T19:31:34 < mawk> I was out of methadone Steffanx
2020-12-14T19:31:36 < mawk> guess what I did
2020-12-14T19:31:40 < mawk> did I go two hours in advance to pharmacy to be sure to be there on time?
2020-12-14T19:31:42 < mawk> or did I arrive 20 seconds before closing time
2020-12-14T19:31:57 < Steffanx> You arrived after closing time
2020-12-14T19:32:13 < mawk> lol
2020-12-14T19:32:22 < mawk> no it was 20s before
2020-12-14T19:32:28 < mawk> pharmacist was angry though
2020-12-14T19:32:35 < Steffanx> Yes. Fool
2020-12-14T19:32:40 < mawk> why
2020-12-14T19:32:45 < mawk> I optimized my time
2020-12-14T19:32:51 < mawk> I'm perfectly efficient
2020-12-14T19:32:59 < Steffanx> You might want to optimize their time
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2020-12-14T19:33:37 < Steffanx> Youre so french 
2020-12-14T19:34:04 < mawk> lol
2020-12-14T19:34:10 < mawk> thank you
2020-12-14T19:37:28 < Steffanx> Yw
2020-12-14T19:37:38 < Steffanx> Are you proud of yourself?
2020-12-14T19:38:52 < mawk> yes
2020-12-14T19:38:59 < mawk> you said I'm so french
2020-12-14T19:39:04 < mawk> so I'm proud of myself
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2020-12-14T20:15:41 < Steffanx> Did you know about the new lockdown mawk 
2020-12-14T20:17:23 < qyx> https://www.8devices.com/products/black-bean
2020-12-14T20:17:25 < qyx> such dilettantish
2020-12-14T20:17:32 < qyx> narrow-width m.2
2020-12-14T20:18:18 < qyx> wait what, it is a fuking 16.5x30 mm
2020-12-14T20:18:23 < qyx> not even standard 40 mm
2020-12-14T20:18:53 < qyx> I was hoping I could put it into my mikrotik
2020-12-14T20:33:57 < antto> tikromik
2020-12-14T20:38:50 < antto> huh, i also used this ap3012 regulator i fink
2020-12-14T20:39:02 < antto> in the same53_audio board
2020-12-14T20:39:26 < antto> meh, wrong channel >:/
2020-12-14T20:39:32 < Steffanx> No more coffeeshop for you mawk. Shit is locked down again
2020-12-14T20:40:35 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2020-12-14T20:40:45 < mawk> that's why I went buying 10g of hasj
2020-12-14T20:40:49 < mawk> just now
2020-12-14T20:40:57 < mawk> I am a forward planning man
2020-12-14T20:41:07 < mawk> just in case I run out of pillz
2020-12-14T20:41:15 < Steffanx> Queue must have been long
2020-12-14T20:41:19 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-14T20:42:31 < mawk> on a french channel someone would've said "like mine"
2020-12-14T20:42:33 < mawk> 100% of the time
2020-12-14T20:42:39 < mawk> maybe it's a french thing
2020-12-14T20:42:58 < machinehum> mawk: ty thanks
2020-12-14T20:43:10 < machinehum> Sorry for the giant delay in between
2020-12-14T20:43:16 < mawk> don't worry
2020-12-14T20:44:33 < mawk> Steffanx in french we call hasj "shit"
2020-12-14T20:44:56 < brdb> what would you lot recommend for sending an ~800kHz data signal over a long wire, line driver at sender and receiver with some termination resistors?
2020-12-14T20:45:10 < brdb> the whole termination thing still confuses me a bit
2020-12-14T20:45:17 < mawk> why?
2020-12-14T20:45:27 < mawk> you want to know what happens with no termination?
2020-12-14T20:45:34 < mawk> or you already know
2020-12-14T20:45:45 < brdb> already know, i just dont know how to set myself up for success in this application
2020-12-14T20:46:18 < brdb> i'm having issues with it going to the high impedance receiver straight from even a line driver sender (obviously) probably due to ground potential differences, inductance, and reflection
2020-12-14T20:47:02 < brdb> i think differential would be overkill for this, for context it's about maybe 5-10m of cable
2020-12-14T20:51:52 < PaulFertser> Clearly you need a termination resistor on the receiving side to match impedance of the line (which will depend on type of the wire).
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2020-12-14T23:04:39 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29SN5HN6olE musics
2020-12-14T23:13:27 < Steffanx> Nope.
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2020-12-14T23:23:52 < Steffanx> kakium69: https://imgur.com/a/BX4SUYU
2020-12-14T23:24:18 < kakium69> y
2020-12-14T23:35:07 < mawk> "target not examined, reset not asserted" what does that mean PaulFertser :(
2020-12-14T23:37:05 < mawk> hmm now it's gone
2020-12-14T23:37:13 < mawk> I thought I broke something
2020-12-14T23:39:36 < zyp> shit happens
2020-12-14T23:39:41 < mawk> lol
2020-12-14T23:39:46 < mawk> that's not a satisfying explanation
2020-12-14T23:39:52 < zyp> haha
2020-12-14T23:39:56 < mawk> maybe it will come back to haunt me
2020-12-14T23:40:01 < zyp> absolutely
2020-12-14T23:40:03 < mawk> I don't remember what I did to fix it
2020-12-14T23:40:15 < mawk> I unplugged-replugged it 4 times, it wasn't working, one more time and it was ok
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2020-12-14T23:44:36 < Steffanx> It was some pseudo random modulo happening mawk
2020-12-14T23:44:43 < mawk> :(
2020-12-14T23:44:53 < mawk> maybe shitty chinese cables
2020-12-14T23:44:55 < mawk> but I doubt it
2020-12-14T23:45:01 < mawk> the errors sounds like it comes from openocd itself
--- Day changed Tue Dec 15 2020
2020-12-15T00:04:05 < mawk> it's doing it again
2020-12-15T00:04:07 < mawk> so annoying
2020-12-15T00:06:49 < kakium69> stm32?
2020-12-15T00:10:43 < mawk> nrf52
2020-12-15T00:10:50 < mawk> but I think it's a cable issue, but not sure
2020-12-15T00:10:56 < mawk> no idea why it happens now and not before
2020-12-15T00:11:26 < mawk> at least the usb extender cable I use is wobbly, but if I plug the hub directly it's same result
2020-12-15T00:13:13 < kakium69> have you uploaded new binary?
2020-12-15T00:13:33 < mawk> since it's not working? yes
2020-12-15T00:13:46 < kakium69> since it was working nice
2020-12-15T00:13:49 < mawk> yes
2020-12-15T00:13:53 < mawk> but the new binary works nice as well
2020-12-15T00:13:59 < mawk> my leds are happily blinking
2020-12-15T00:14:03 < mawk> heart is beating
2020-12-15T00:14:11 < kakium69> but you debugging is not
2020-12-15T00:14:17 < mawk> what I currently have is that openocd says this "Error: jtag status contains invalid mode value - communication failure" after like 5 seconds
2020-12-15T00:14:26 < kakium69> ah
2020-12-15T00:14:29 < mawk> if I unplug and plug back again and restart openocd, then it works again
2020-12-15T00:14:32 < mawk> then 5 seconds later, same thing
2020-12-15T00:14:36 < mawk> even if I don't move at all
2020-12-15T00:14:40 < mawk> sounds very weird
2020-12-15T00:15:31 < Steffanx> Lunix
2020-12-15T00:16:39 < mawk> nonsense
2020-12-15T00:16:42 < mawk> it was working fine before
2020-12-15T00:16:49 < mawk> issue is =====> Steffanx <=====
2020-12-15T00:16:56 < mawk> you're making negative waves
2020-12-15T00:17:53 < mawk> I'm trying a different hub
2020-12-15T00:17:58 < mawk> my trust usb-c hub
2020-12-15T00:18:04 < mawk> but it's on the wrong side of the computer
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2020-12-15T00:20:06 < Steffanx> Trust. Such dutch legacy
2020-12-15T00:21:04 < qyx> lol
2020-12-15T00:22:16 < Steffanx> Dont tell me you ha r such  positive personality, that you attract my negative waves mawk
2020-12-15T00:22:23 < Steffanx> Have*
2020-12-15T00:29:06 < mawk> I tried with a different hub
2020-12-15T00:29:08 < mawk> same issue
2020-12-15T00:29:55 < mawk> let's try with old code to make kakium69 happy
2020-12-15T00:30:18 < kakium69> rewind
2020-12-15T00:30:34 < kakium69> until it wprks
2020-12-15T00:30:49 < mawk> no same thing
2020-12-15T00:30:58 < mawk> awful
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2020-12-15T00:31:42 < mawk> maybe it's since I removed the shit binary blob
2020-12-15T00:31:49 < mawk> no idea why it would do that though
2020-12-15T00:31:52 < mawk> I'll read RM a bit more
2020-12-15T00:32:55 < mawk> maybe I can add a relay to usb hub so I power cycle it from the pc in my makefile
2020-12-15T00:33:02 < mawk> make:r solution
2020-12-15T00:33:40 < mawk> that's unironically what my company did though, I shouldn't joke about it
2020-12-15T00:34:38 < Steffanx> Get a hub which can turn off the power.
2020-12-15T00:34:48 < Steffanx> And measure the voltage/current 
2020-12-15T00:35:27 < mawk> that sounds expensive
2020-12-15T00:37:05 < mawk> maybe my issue is some watchdog magic
2020-12-15T00:37:29 < mawk> but hitting reset button doesn't fix it so I don't know
2020-12-15T00:37:33 < mawk> I'll reboot my computer
2020-12-15T00:43:05 < Steffanx> Noo 
2020-12-15T00:51:33 < mawk> why
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2020-12-15T01:19:20 < mawk> Debug: 336 10380 stlink_usb.c:788 stlink_usb_error_check(): unknown/unexpected STLINK status code 0x5
2020-12-15T01:27:39 < mawk> this is so annoying
2020-12-15T01:30:27 < Steffanx> Time for some positive energy. Flash jewlink on it and use ozone
2020-12-15T01:30:35 < mawk> noooooo
2020-12-15T01:30:39 < mawk> I'm fidel to openocd
2020-12-15T01:30:46 < mawk> and why would stlink do this, that makes no sense
2020-12-15T01:30:50 < mawk> there is an issue somewhere and it can be fixed
2020-12-15T01:30:56 < mawk> no need for your capitalist "ozone" thing
2020-12-15T01:32:00 < GenTooMan> hmm which is less of a hassle with STM32CubeMx HAL or LL?
2020-12-15T01:32:20 < mawk> they're made both by ST and both configurable with cubemx GenTooMan 
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2020-12-15T01:32:26 < mawk> use the thing you want
2020-12-15T01:32:37 < mawk> but HAL has more support in cubemx, some peripherals are not available with LL
2020-12-15T01:32:47 < mawk> I'd just use HAL if I were to choose, but that's me
2020-12-15T01:32:54 < mawk> LL is..lower level, as the name implies
2020-12-15T01:32:57 < mawk> and HAL is slightly higher level
2020-12-15T01:33:31 < GenTooMan> hmm I've nary used LL so I suppose I should experiment more than just a bit.
2020-12-15T01:39:09 < GenTooMan> thanks for your view on it mawk
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2020-12-15T01:48:38 < Steffanx> HAL is more awful GenTooMan 
2020-12-15T01:49:52 < mawk> noo
2020-12-15T01:49:57 < mawk> more POWERful
2020-12-15T01:50:03 < mawk> that's what he meant
2020-12-15T01:53:21 < qyx> hello night pros
2020-12-15T01:53:31 < qyx> I have a riddle for you
2020-12-15T01:53:50 < qyx> let's have two sockets on two distinct devices
2020-12-15T01:54:16 < qyx> the idea is to interconnect them with a power cable bidirectionally
2020-12-15T01:54:22 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rJ5TK/Screenshot_2020-12-15_00-53-08.png
2020-12-15T01:54:38 < GenTooMan> hmm Well TBH I had heard HAL was short for Horrific Abstraction Layer
2020-12-15T01:55:05 < qyx> the devices operate as IT, PE potential is somewhere between L+ and L-
2020-12-15T01:55:15 < qyx> and now, how to
2020-12-15T01:55:35 < qyx> 1. mark the cable with max current handling capability so the devices may check how many amps to source/sink
2020-12-15T01:55:47 < qyx> 2. detect if both sides of the cable are connected
2020-12-15T01:55:59 < qyx> 3. do a low bitrate comms, FSK or whatever
2020-12-15T01:57:02 < GenTooMan> this sounds like the use of a power cable modem
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2020-12-15T01:57:44 < qyx> the 3. is quite easy, as it is IT and the impedance of PE to L+/L- is high, you can drive the PE
2020-12-15T01:57:54 < qyx> but 1. and 2. are quite challenging
2020-12-15T01:58:37 < qyx> I am leaning towards to using some resistors in the cable to resistance-code the cable type
2020-12-15T01:58:42 < qyx> and in the sockets too
2020-12-15T01:58:47 < qyx> and measure the impedance
2020-12-15T01:59:06 < qyx> or even make a RC in the cable and measure the RC constant
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2020-12-15T02:13:06 < BrainDamage> is the cable within a single shield?
2020-12-15T02:13:48 < BrainDamage> if yes, drive it in common mode with a RFID signal, and slap a rfid tag on it
2020-12-15T02:13:57 < BrainDamage> that'll do 1
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2020-12-15T02:20:39 < qyx> theres no shield on the cable
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2020-12-15T02:21:25 < qyx> but, yeah
2020-12-15T02:22:09 < qyx> I may do a poor man TDR to check 2
2020-12-15T02:22:47 < qyx> but I wanted to do it in hw to disconnect power when the data/PE conductor disconnects
2020-12-15T02:35:39 < BrainDamage> send a regular ping as differential signal on the cables
2020-12-15T02:36:18 < BrainDamage> or even just a sine, and slap a LC filter + envelope detector
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2020-12-15T03:18:11 < mawk> I solved the issue
2020-12-15T03:18:14 < mawk> the stlink was bad
2020-12-15T03:18:22 < mawk> I used a stlink v2.1 from a nucleo, works perfectly
2020-12-15T03:20:43 < GenTooMan> so damaged ST-Link?
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2020-12-15T04:01:44 < qyx> Host interface: 12.5 MHz I3C
2020-12-15T04:01:46 < qyx> uh oh
2020-12-15T04:13:17 < Thorn> qyx have you looked at ATECC608A or something similar for wireless security?
2020-12-15T04:13:25 < Thorn> does it make sense
2020-12-15T04:20:01 < qyx> yes, I even have some samples
2020-12-15T04:20:17 < qyx> as long as you are using atecc608a supported algo in your wireless proto, it is fine
2020-12-15T04:20:28 < qyx> the key can be generated inside and never leaves the device
2020-12-15T04:20:46 < qyx> iirc it can compute the whole key exchange
2020-12-15T04:21:34 < qyx> there were libraries which can use it for TLS, mbed-tls it might have been, idk now
2020-12-15T04:21:41 < qyx> or the zephyr-included one
2020-12-15T04:28:08 < Thorn> yeah what looks attractive to me is smartcard-like key management, so that the private key can't be sniffed even if the device is stolen
2020-12-15T04:31:39 < qyx> I would be more interested in a good documented device with a secure memory for key storage
2020-12-15T04:32:00 < qyx> something like F0/GO with few kB shielded and secured eeprom
2020-12-15T04:32:01 < funky> bunnie hwang is building one
2020-12-15T04:32:16 < qyx> so you can run your own hipster algos on it
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2020-12-15T04:32:33 < qyx> like 3DH/axolotl authenticated exchanges and things like that
2020-12-15T04:32:42 < Thorn> https://cryptotronix.com/2017/11/29/initial-thoughts-on-microchips-new-atecc608a/
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2020-12-15T04:33:55 < qyx> I’m still waiting for parts like this one that support DJB cryptography and secp256k1 (Bitcoin curve) but I haven’t found them yet. Maybe with new ARM TrustZone for Cortex M there can be software implementations of those ciphers in the new TrustZone for low power devices.
2020-12-15T04:33:59 < qyx> he thinks the same
2020-12-15T04:34:07 < qyx> all those devices lacks djb's things
2020-12-15T04:44:26 < jadew> has musk's account been hacked?
2020-12-15T04:44:49 < funky> would there be any difference?
2020-12-15T04:45:25 < jadew> well, his last two posts look similar to what Laurenceb posts here
2020-12-15T04:45:59 < jadew> maybe not the last two
2020-12-15T04:46:04 < jadew> but 3 of the last 5
2020-12-15T04:46:35 < jadew> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1338502080911306755?s=20
2020-12-15T04:46:46 < jadew> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1338375990217760771?s=20
2020-12-15T04:47:16 < jadew> https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1338365886542049282?s=20
2020-12-15T04:52:31 < jadew> also, one week old news, but he said he's leaving california for texas
2020-12-15T04:52:56 < jadew> and by "he", I mean his taking the factories with him
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2020-12-15T05:03:48 < qyx> why?
2020-12-15T05:05:53 < jadew> they pissed him off
2020-12-15T05:06:07 < jadew> shut down his factory because of covid (it's open now)
2020-12-15T05:06:22 < jadew> and texas doesn't have income taxes
2020-12-15T05:06:32 < jadew> while CA does and apparently are the highest in the US
2020-12-15T05:06:52 < qyx> hm
2020-12-15T05:26:03 < jadew> I just thought of an amazing troll
2020-12-15T05:26:35 < jadew> lots of people don't turn off their PMR stations during the night
2020-12-15T05:27:12 < jadew> every night, at a random time, you could transmit on all channels a loud sound followed by the exact time
2020-12-15T05:27:36 < jadew> "beep boop beep, it was 3:27 am"
2020-12-15T05:35:34 < GenTooMan> jadew hmm well he's in the huge line of people leaving.
2020-12-15T05:35:49 < jadew> GenTooMan, there are more leaving?
2020-12-15T05:39:44 < aandrew> PMR station?
2020-12-15T05:39:44 < GenTooMan> jadew uh ... yeah I thought everyone knew about the long line of businesses just leaving. They didn't announce anything to the public they just started planning and moving.
2020-12-15T05:40:04 < jadew> aandrew, walkie talkies
2020-12-15T05:40:16 < jadew> GenTooMan, didn't know that
2020-12-15T05:40:21 < jadew> makes sense tho
2020-12-15T05:43:22 < jadew> https://www.hoover.org/research/california-businesses-leave-state-thousands
2020-12-15T05:45:25 < jadew> sounds like texas is attracting all the businesses
2020-12-15T05:46:23 < jadew> no wonder they want to secede
2020-12-15T05:51:37 < GenTooMan> jadew welcome to Hotel California...
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2020-12-15T06:00:43 < GenTooMan> So yes CA has a lot of problems. It's too bad but they need to connect with reality, obviously they as a state decided to leave reality.
2020-12-15T06:01:34 < jadew> I assume whoever is running the state is a democrat
2020-12-15T06:02:40 < jadew> in my experience, socialists are willing to appease the people at the expense of the people, just so they get to stay in office
2020-12-15T06:02:51 < GenTooMan> I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter, could be libertarian party even. It won't change a thing.
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2020-12-15T06:03:32 < jadew> GenTooMan, why wouldn't it matter?
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2020-12-15T06:05:29 < GenTooMan> jadew most of the entire state is that way. CA almost split in 3 pieces a several years ago. In fact the vote said they did but someone pulled a legally questionable stunt to "invalidate" it (in their minds).
2020-12-15T06:11:05 < GenTooMan> well in any case it's a "local politics" issue with CA. I hope what's left of my family there (real Californian as in 1880's non gold rush people).
2020-12-15T06:11:14 < GenTooMan> survives.
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2020-12-15T10:03:22 < mawk> the VDD pin of stlink v2.1 does not work right? until I change some jumpers or something
2020-12-15T10:03:46 < mawk> not jumpers, solder bridges
2020-12-15T10:03:58 < mawk> the pin is floating
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2020-12-15T10:47:46 < jpa-> mawk: it's not supposed to supply Vdd, it is supposed to sense target system Vdd
2020-12-15T10:48:19 < jpa-> (iirc some stlinks allow using with e.g. 2.0V Vdd that way)
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2020-12-15T10:51:27 < mawk> yes that's what I mean
2020-12-15T10:51:39 < mawk> it's not sensing the target vdd
2020-12-15T10:51:43 < mawk> it looks like floating
2020-12-15T10:52:10 < mawk> and my vdd is 2.0V yes
2020-12-15T10:52:23 < mawk> Info : Target voltage: 0.028346
2020-12-15T10:52:27 < mawk> ^ supposed to be around 2
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2020-12-15T11:30:24 < skz81> Hi, I just joined. I recognize some nicks in there :) o/ antto, fury, GenTooMan, hackkitten, Steffanx (and sorry if I missed someone)
2020-12-15T11:31:41 < zyp> hi
2020-12-15T11:35:08 < mawk> and me skz81 ?
2020-12-15T11:37:49  * hackkitten is infamous~
2020-12-15T11:39:20 < skz81> mawk, i am supposed to know your nick ? Can't recall from where, sorry :) But glad to meet you again !
2020-12-15T11:39:32 < skz81> s/i am/am i/
2020-12-15T11:42:18 < PaulFertser> Are you from arduino land skz81 ?
2020-12-15T11:43:33 < skz81> PaulFertser, arduino land ?? What do you mean exactly ?
2020-12-15T11:43:50 < PaulFertser> skz81: where do you know those nicks from?
2020-12-15T11:44:53 < skz81> Ha yes, maybe some are laying around in #arduino. I'm on #avr, #ESP32, #kicad and some others
2020-12-15T11:45:25 < PaulFertser> Steffanx still on #avr? hah
2020-12-15T11:45:59 < Steffanx> No PaulFertser
2020-12-15T11:46:13 < Steffanx> maybe i was a bit a few months back but no more.
2020-12-15T11:46:13 < skz81> I tend NOT to use arduino software (API and IDE) when I can avoid it. But unos / nanos are great board to tinker with :)
2020-12-15T11:46:33 < Steffanx>  But dont forget WE the wonderful #(#)STM32 started in #avr PaulFertser
2020-12-15T11:47:03 < skz81> Steffanx, ho, true dat ?
2020-12-15T11:47:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I don't forget that
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2020-12-15T11:47:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: IRC pro EE misfits needed their own safe space, I remember.
2020-12-15T11:47:54 < Steffanx> Yes, very true skz81. If you are a loooooong time #avr visitor you might remember Izua.
2020-12-15T11:48:01 < skz81> Just got a nucleo F429ZI from work, so here I am :]
2020-12-15T11:48:34 < skz81> Steffanx, nope I don't recall that nick
2020-12-15T11:48:44 < Steffanx> > 8 years a go probably
2020-12-15T11:48:56 < skz81> recal, remember (?)
2020-12-15T11:49:04 < Steffanx> > 9 years ago.
2020-12-15T11:49:28 < Steffanx> Oh lol make that 10 years. daaamn "Registered : Apr 10 15:16:25 2010 (10y 35w 6d ago)"
2020-12-15T11:49:39 < PaulFertser> Are you a hater skz81 ?
2020-12-15T11:49:54 < Steffanx> or a lunix user?
2020-12-15T11:50:34 < skz81> Steffanx, make sense, I started to play with duinos in 2012 or a bit earlier. Joined #avr a few month later.
2020-12-15T11:50:58 < skz81> PaulFertser, why would you think I even could be a hater ?
2020-12-15T11:51:27 < skz81> Steffanx, ha yes I must apologize to that one.
2020-12-15T11:51:42 < skz81> ArchLoonix, even worse
2020-12-15T11:52:02 < PaulFertser> skz81: many people here hate one thing or the other.
2020-12-15T11:52:17 < skz81> I hate hole in my socks
2020-12-15T11:52:41 < skz81> Cookies falling in my coffe cup
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2020-12-15T11:53:12 < PaulFertser> I recommend you not to. Hatred takes your energy away without providing anything good in exchange. Not even any harm to your enemies. But that's my personal opinion.
2020-12-15T11:54:24  * skz81 checks if he didn't /j #philosophy by mistake
2020-12-15T11:54:29 < skz81> no, that ok
2020-12-15T11:55:27 < PaulFertser> Join #openocd to discuss Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ;)
2020-12-15T11:57:14 < skz81> https://www.weblitera.com/book/?id=26&lng=1&ch=30&l=
2020-12-15T11:57:45 < skz81> erm, still not #philosophy :]
2020-12-15T11:58:19 < PaulFertser> So skz81 what software do you plan to use on your nucleo?
2020-12-15T12:00:10 < PaulFertser> And what programming languages?
2020-12-15T12:00:11 < jadew> PaulFertser, if you can get others to hate your enemy, then it might provide something.
2020-12-15T12:01:05 < PaulFertser> jadew: it might, I agree.
2020-12-15T12:01:24 < PaulFertser> Let's hate the whole in skz81's socks together :)
2020-12-15T12:01:32 < PaulFertser> s/whole/hole/
2020-12-15T12:01:44 < zyp> I hate the whole sock
2020-12-15T12:01:49 < jadew> haha
2020-12-15T12:02:20 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-12-15T12:03:02 < PaulFertser> So zyp how's your buildroot journey?
2020-12-15T12:03:23 < zyp> haven't started on it yet
2020-12-15T12:03:43 < PaulFertser> I'm familiar with OpenWrt's buildroot only, and I have to admit it's kind of odd to have so much trickery in Makefiles.
2020-12-15T12:03:45 < zyp> what's your impression of buildroot vs openembedded?
2020-12-15T12:05:39 < PaulFertser> OE is much more complex, the documentation is big, some things are really not obvious, and digging the sources feels hard, it's plenty of python code to understand.
2020-12-15T12:06:22 < zyp> feels a bit like «pick your poison» to me
2020-12-15T12:06:55 < PaulFertser> OpenWrt is less flexible in many regards but for me feels more straightforward, and with "info make" handy I can even fix obscure bugs.
2020-12-15T12:07:07 < PaulFertser> There's also buildroot2
2020-12-15T12:08:44 < PaulFertser> Pengutronix has their own thing too https://www.ptxdist.org/
2020-12-15T12:09:20 < zyp> maybe I should decide they are all bad and decide to make my own thing so I can proceed to get nothing useful done
2020-12-15T12:09:52 < PaulFertser> zyp: what did you dislike about OE particularly?
2020-12-15T12:13:34 < zyp> stuff I could probably solve by learning it better :)
2020-12-15T12:14:55 < zyp> in my experience it can be pretty slow at building, including downloading
2020-12-15T12:15:21 < zyp> I assume some of that could be fixed by picking mirrors or something
2020-12-15T12:15:27 < PaulFertser> By default it starts as many threads as you have CPU cores or something like that, and downloading is paralleled.
2020-12-15T12:15:36 < PaulFertser> And it's done just once anyway.
2020-12-15T12:15:51 < PaulFertser> Compilation is sped up by using ccache everywhere by default.
2020-12-15T12:17:02 < skz81> PaulFertser, for now, job related SW. I have that UltraWideBand shield (Arduino shield form factor)
2020-12-15T12:18:06 < skz81> We use it to simulate an embedded device (a remote for instance) or just sniff the traffic from other boards
2020-12-15T12:18:23 < skz81> With a loonix on them
2020-12-15T12:19:20 < skz81> Later I may design a board and make it assembled (i can't solder SMDs) with one of that STM on it
2020-12-15T12:19:20 < zyp> PaulFertser, also that issue I talked to you about before when I somehow got stuff into a broken state
2020-12-15T12:19:36 < skz81> zyp, #SocksAreEvil
2020-12-15T12:19:36 < zyp> IIRC it got sorted by some combination of cleaning this and that
2020-12-15T12:20:54 < PaulFertser> zyp: yes, when it works, it seems to behave nicely. But when something breaks it's just very odd and super complex to dig. 
2020-12-15T12:21:35 < skz81> OpenEmbedded/Yocto is powerful because of that layer mecanism (you can patch upstream recipes), but that makes it... Brainfuck
2020-12-15T12:22:21 < PaulFertser> skz81: and what tooling?
2020-12-15T12:22:27 < skz81> Also it tend to waste CPU time by rebuilding the whole earth from scratch
2020-12-15T12:22:50 < skz81> Never used Buildroot, tho, can't compare
2020-12-15T12:23:05 < zyp> yeah, I like the layering mechanism except when people make a mess of it
2020-12-15T12:23:25 < skz81> PaulFertser, what do mean 'tooling' ? If you mean build system, I beleive we have a custom one
2020-12-15T12:23:59 < PaulFertser> skz81: yes, toolchain, debuggers etc you're using for stm32.
2020-12-15T12:25:32 < skz81> PaulFertser, GCC for the build but there are custom tools over. I saw GDB mentionned in the wikis.... Can't tell much more yet
2020-12-15T12:26:22 < PaulFertser> skz81: and do you use SWO to get debugging data from the target?
2020-12-15T12:27:38 < skz81> PaulFertser, dunno. Is that related to JTAG ? 
2020-12-15T12:28:44 < PaulFertser> skz81: in a way. On STM32 when you use SWO you can't use JTAG, just SWD :)
2020-12-15T12:29:10 < skz81> For now I have 2 USB cables plugged in, one on the STlink side of the board, the other pops up when booting (custom bootloader does it) and is used to flash
2020-12-15T12:29:59 < skz81> eI will probably do few debug. The test FW are developped and validated. But i may, if we have further needs in the future
2020-12-15T12:30:18 < skz81> few or* no* debug at* all*
2020-12-15T12:40:13 < PaulFertser> skz81: when developing firmware the debug comes super-handy. That's unlike avr.
2020-12-15T12:41:33 < skz81> PaulFertser, on AVR you have that debugWire thing, but I never played with
2020-12-15T12:45:02 < PaulFertser> skz81: it's slow too. And newer models have PDI or whatever it's called. Still doesn't beat standard Cortex-M debug.
2020-12-15T13:20:18 < Steffanx>  UPDI is WONDERFUL (NOT)
2020-12-15T13:21:17 < jadew> PaulFertser, you don't know how to debug by flipping IOs on and off?
2020-12-15T13:22:01 < jadew> that said, AVR debugging has worked great for me
2020-12-15T13:22:06 < jadew> didn't seem slow or anything
2020-12-15T13:32:48 < PaulFertser> jadew: I know but it's often painful
2020-12-15T13:37:09 < mawk> Info : Target voltage: 0.028346
2020-12-15T13:37:11 < mawk> Error: target voltage may be too low for reliable debugging
2020-12-15T13:37:19 < mawk> when using a nucleo board as my stlink on my nrf, voltage is supposed to be 2V
2020-12-15T13:37:29 < mawk> is there a solder bridge to cut to make this work?
2020-12-15T13:38:59 < jpa-> ah, i thought you had full stlink
2020-12-15T13:39:10 < jpa-> AFAIK nucleo/discovery board stlink only supports 3.3V IO
2020-12-15T13:40:11 < mawk> ah
2020-12-15T13:40:18 < mawk> well it works, I just disconnected VDD
2020-12-15T13:40:31 < mawk> but I think it's only because I reconfigured the board to do 3V I/O
2020-12-15T13:40:47 < mawk> seems to be close enough to 3.3V
2020-12-15T13:41:13 < mawk> but yeah VDD is 2V but I/O is 3V, it would just confuse the stlink anyway to see 2V on its VDD sense pin
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2020-12-15T13:56:59 < fury> hi skz81 :D
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2020-12-15T14:57:44 < jadew> can you guys tell what's wrong with this instrument? http://188.26.169.106/stuff/20201215_140443.jpg
2020-12-15T14:58:14 < karlp> is that a screw driver punch hole in the cap?
2020-12-15T14:58:28 < jadew> no, it just blew up
2020-12-15T14:59:04 < Mangy_Dog> Having a really strange issue here... https://pastebin.com/kiK0gCsq Focus on void inputCheck() down the bottom of the paste. Im doing a simple capture all buttons event, adding a beep or double beep when long pressed. The loop for when pressed works fine. But the loop for long press does not. Instead of double beeping when a long press is done, It double beeps when button is released. The 
2020-12-15T14:59:04 < Mangy_Dog> really strange thing is if I try and capture a single button, as seen in the commented out code at the bottom. It works correctly. Yet that singled out button is just a pointer to the same array the for loop is agrigating. So im very confused to why its not working
2020-12-15T15:07:17 < zyp> «Instead of double beeping when a long press is done, It double beeps when button is released.» what's the difference? isn't a long press done when the button is released?
2020-12-15T15:07:40 < Mangy_Dog> na its ment to trigger when the long press timer is run out
2020-12-15T15:07:43 < Mangy_Dog> IE returning true
2020-12-15T15:07:59 < zyp> are you accounting for bounce?
2020-12-15T15:08:19 < Mangy_Dog> the delay between imput check loops should negate bouncing
2020-12-15T15:08:23 < Mangy_Dog> input
2020-12-15T15:08:28 < Mangy_Dog> its about 10ms
2020-12-15T15:08:31 < dongs> zyp, mchp guy is pretty fixed on not needing the pulls, i gotta redo the board anyway.
2020-12-15T15:08:32 < jadew> man... farnell sucks so bad
2020-12-15T15:08:46 < dongs> i tried to ghetto it but it doenst work
2020-12-15T15:09:05 < zyp> tried to ghetto which?
2020-12-15T15:09:19 < dongs> their suggestion. cut the traces and put AC cap in them
2020-12-15T15:09:38 < dongs> but there was no space, so I cut + did flywire + blah, anyway, it doesnt look good and maybe doesnt work good either.
2020-12-15T15:09:40 < jadew> on top of the fact that they sell some stuff at several times the price you find it at other distributors, they now have a handling fee of 10 GBP for small orders
2020-12-15T15:09:42 < zyp> have you tried ghettoing it with resistors to 3.3V?
2020-12-15T15:09:55 < dongs> nah not worth my time. board needs other fixes anyway.
2020-12-15T15:10:06 < dongs> i will add space for pullups on new sch.
2020-12-15T15:10:21 < zyp> right
2020-12-15T15:10:29 < zyp> keep me updated on how it works out :)
2020-12-15T15:12:15 < zyp> I'm not super impressed by microchip support from my own case either, although I think that problem is so niche I didn't really expect to get anything useful anyway
2020-12-15T15:15:34 < karlp> for me once we got a hold of them, their fix was good.
2020-12-15T15:15:59 < karlp> we had problems with a usb hub not coming up, they suggested cahnging the r/c on the reset pin to hold it in reset longer.
2020-12-15T15:16:01 < zyp> yeah, I think part of the problem is that I haven't gotten past first line
2020-12-15T15:32:01 < Steffanx> Yeah for my colleague they are very helpful, updated docs accordingly etc. they are pretty helpful
2020-12-15T15:32:13 < Steffanx> You should try NXP. They will just quote you text from the datasheet.
2020-12-15T15:33:11 < Steffanx> Even if you ask for pretty specific information about which was obviously not in the datasheet
2020-12-15T15:33:12 < Steffanx> And then in the end they come with "it might work". Test it, check the signal integrity etc. 
2020-12-15T15:40:09 < englishman> how compatible are f302c8 and f303c8? i think the only difference is some of the sram is moved to CC sram so as long as i don't use that ram i should be OK?
2020-12-15T15:40:46 < englishman> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00260340-migrating-between-stm32f303-and-stm32f302-line-products-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-12-15T15:40:50 < englishman> this is totally fucking unhelpful
2020-12-15T15:41:23 < englishman> c8 has no usb? lol. fuck man who would choose this chip
2020-12-15T15:47:03 < englishman> problem is f302c8 is out of stock. switching to f302cb is probably my best bet
2020-12-15T16:06:20 < jadew> Steffanx, think this is good enough? https://www.tme.eu/ro/en/details/wlft_404_r25/radiators-equipment/fischer-elektronik/wlft-404-r25/
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2020-12-15T16:08:22 < Steffanx> Heh, im no expert in this jadew. 
2020-12-15T16:08:47 < jadew> it's the only one I found :)
2020-12-15T16:09:51 < Steffanx> But the error "we" (as in the hw guy made) was to select thermal conductive adhesive that was not meant to be sticked to a PCB, but directly to ICs. So it would/could come loose.
2020-12-15T16:10:58 < jadew> interesting, I'll have to read on it and maybe contact the manufacturer
2020-12-15T16:11:19 < jadew> hope they answer today because I have some fuses in the cart and I'd like to place the order today
2020-12-15T16:13:29 < Steffanx> The shit i used myself was more funny. There was product A and B. One was also electrically conductive and the other not. I looked at this and yet managed to order and use the electrically conductive version. Great fun when used on bare copper.
2020-12-15T16:15:37 < Mangy_Dog> this is fun, so ive narrowed down my problem to something with the serial fed door button states in my tricorder. What is really strange even though theyre set to boolean, theyre returning the value 3. Not 0 or 1. And when the program starts theyre all set to false (0) and ive turned off the code that could edit their state. yet still being changed to 3.
2020-12-15T16:16:21 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, I'm a bit worried about some vias (I'd like to cover them)
2020-12-15T16:16:35 < Steffanx> WLFT 404 17X17 was the wrong one apparently.
2020-12-15T16:16:51 < jadew> lol
2020-12-15T16:16:52 < Steffanx> *wrong one as in.. what the hw guy at work picked
2020-12-15T16:17:09 < jadew> sounds like the same one I linked
2020-12-15T16:17:13 < Steffanx> yeah
2020-12-15T16:17:19 < jadew> thanks!
2020-12-15T16:17:25 < jadew> I'll have to look further
2020-12-15T16:17:27 < Steffanx> it was replaced with....
2020-12-15T16:18:52 < Steffanx> 3M 8810 17X17 it seems
2020-12-15T16:18:54 < Mangy_Dog> oh super fucking weird. its not all serial fed buttons turning to 3.... just the first one in the array
2020-12-15T16:19:06 < Mangy_Dog> so im guessing something must be over flowing some how
2020-12-15T16:19:06 < jadew> thanks a lot
2020-12-15T16:19:10 < jadew> I'll check it out
2020-12-15T16:22:30 < Mangy_Dog> holy fucking christ narrowed down more and its more and more confusing
2020-12-15T16:22:44 < Mangy_Dog> something in my led code must be over flowing into the door button state array
2020-12-15T16:22:52 < Mangy_Dog> as its something in that function thats triggering it set to 3
2020-12-15T16:28:13 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-12-15T16:28:19 < Mangy_Dog> Found the array that was over flowing
2020-12-15T16:28:24 < Mangy_Dog> but not sure why it over flowed
2020-12-15T16:28:29 < Mangy_Dog> and no idea why the error wasnt caught
2020-12-15T16:28:49 < Mangy_Dog> but damn this is a right rabbit hole bug
2020-12-15T16:51:09 < Steffanx> Easy semi-easy to figure out if you had a proper debugger with data watchpoints etc. Set a breakpoint on access to the array and wait for it to stop
2020-12-15T16:51:51 < Steffanx> write access*
2020-12-15T16:51:54 < qyx> jadew: I would not expect tme to deliver by friday
2020-12-15T16:52:12 < qyx> this week is #+$&@
2020-12-15T16:52:14 < jadew> qyx, if I order today, they will
2020-12-15T16:52:21 < qyx> haha
2020-12-15T16:52:26 < qyx> let ke know then
2020-12-15T16:52:57 < qyx> idk if you know, it is christmas coming
2020-12-15T16:53:08 < qyx> delivery times here are > 1 week
2020-12-15T16:54:10 < qyx> also, heat transfer 400 mW/mK
2020-12-15T16:54:20 < BrainDamage> before with black friday it was even worse
2020-12-15T16:54:44 < jadew> that doesn't seem to be a problem here
2020-12-15T16:55:00 < jadew> it was an issue when the pandemic hit, but it was quickly rectified
2020-12-15T16:55:00 < englishman> where can i get a logging shock sensor for shipping for less than $1500
2020-12-15T16:55:21 < englishman> seems these things would be more widely used if they werent $1500
2020-12-15T16:55:36 < BrainDamage> laurenceb_ is your man
2020-12-15T16:56:24 < qyx> englishman: Ill make you one, I just found an accelt for non-impact shock measurement yesterdayu
2020-12-15T16:56:38 < qyx> fuk touch leybnoard
2020-12-15T16:56:52 < englishman> yes fuck leybnoard
2020-12-15T16:57:19 < englishman> so far UPS has destroyed two keithley 220s
2020-12-15T16:58:04 < BrainDamage> ups is the only courier I end up with constant gripes
2020-12-15T16:58:21 < BrainDamage> stuff marked as delivered that didn't even reach my city
2020-12-15T16:58:25 < englishman> lol
2020-12-15T16:58:41 < englishman> yeah hence the vaccine blog yesterday
2020-12-15T16:58:58 -!- Streaker is now known as funky
2020-12-15T16:59:44 < qyx> englishman: link for a $1500 logger?
2020-12-15T17:00:22 < englishman> https://spotsee.io/impact/shocklog-248
2020-12-15T17:00:28 < englishman> they go up and up and up that's the base model
2020-12-15T17:01:13 < karlp> yay. 4MB/sec sd card writing.
2020-12-15T17:02:20 < qyx> Field-proven triaxel piezoelectric accelerometer technology
2020-12-15T17:02:33 < qyx> why the hell are they using piezo
2020-12-15T17:03:08 < englishman> ikr
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2020-12-15T18:23:31 < karlp> holy shit this brcmfmac wifi is apalling
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2020-12-15T18:27:21 < BrainDamage> ahahah was talking about it 30 min ago in another channel
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2020-12-15T18:41:10 < karlp> I've had it working before, and it wasn'tt _tooooo_ bad, but right now, on this build, held together by these bits of magic, just absolute garbage
2020-12-15T18:45:56 < Thorn> karlp what chip? wiced or previous generation?
2020-12-15T18:46:23 < karlp> ap6212
2020-12-15T18:46:55 < karlp> so bcm43440 internally
2020-12-15T18:52:44  * karlp connects an antenna....
2020-12-15T18:53:10 < karlp> well, that's quite a bit better :)
2020-12-15T18:53:34 -!- funky [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-12-15T18:57:33  * karlp must remember that for next time...
2020-12-15T19:01:12 < karlp> nice, can't even install things with pip: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/DVNLa
2020-12-15T19:02:35 < karlp> sweet, I love the future:https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/5216
2020-12-15T19:05:16 < karlp> deprecated for years, nothign suggesting what the alternative is meant to be
2020-12-15T19:06:48 < karlp> and now just gone.  
2020-12-15T19:06:59 < karlp> apparently "search for what you want on the web, then come back and use the exact package name"
2020-12-15T19:08:36 < Thorn> https://pypi.org/
2020-12-15T19:10:12 < karlp> yes, correct.
2020-12-15T19:10:22 < karlp> but pip search used to search pypi from teh command line...
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2020-12-15T19:42:19 < karlp> well, groovy, spidev works.
2020-12-15T19:46:07 < qyx> it did not for me
2020-12-15T19:46:16 < qyx> on that onion omega thjing
2020-12-15T19:46:57 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/WiJkr
2020-12-15T19:47:34 < qyx> awesome
2020-12-15T19:47:51 < karlp> yeah, was pretty pleased :)
2020-12-15T19:48:23 < karlp> now the toss up is whether spidev is "enough" or shoujdl "go all fancy and use IIO"
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2020-12-15T20:08:30  * antto hides in a shadow
2020-12-15T20:16:22 < Steffanx> Where is antto 
2020-12-15T20:16:53 < BrainDamage> the xmlrpc is ridicolously unreasonable
2020-12-15T20:16:55 < BrainDamage> the information is static on the source, just compress the whole db and let the users download it, then search locally
2020-12-15T20:16:56 < BrainDamage> it's a solved problem in package managers since 20 years
2020-12-15T20:16:57 < BrainDamage> but then, language package managers have to reinvent the wheel ... in a worse way
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2020-12-15T20:27:18 < karlp> completely ok, but this idea of years later, we'r ejust going to completely turn off the command, with no even _planned_ idea of what the replacement is is fucking insane.
2020-12-15T20:31:21 < BrainDamage> I agree 100%, i am mocking them for not using the "good, working solution" since always
2020-12-15T20:51:15  * GenTooMan lets antto out, er antto's cat out.
2020-12-15T20:58:01 < jpa-> doesn't seem like 50 requests per second for a simple text search should be such unmanageable load either
2020-12-15T20:58:40 < jpa-> or even the 200 rps peaks
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2020-12-15T21:36:58 < englishman> it is if that is 90% of your budget
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2020-12-15T22:44:19 < antto> classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORYO0atB6g
2020-12-15T22:45:17 < Steffanx> no thanks
2020-12-15T22:45:27 < antto> consume
2020-12-15T22:46:14 < Steffanx> Already concluded its not made for me.
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2020-12-15T22:49:24 < skz81> antto, thx :]
2020-12-15T22:50:04 < skz81> antto, How do you ?
2020-12-15T22:50:15 < antto> cookin
2020-12-15T22:51:39 < skz81> This iz LE CHEF
2020-12-15T22:52:25 < skz81> Bon appétit :)
2020-12-15T22:52:54 < Steffanx> ohno, do you also speak antto-ish?
2020-12-15T22:54:14 < antto> Steffanx, ur f*cked >:)
2020-12-15T22:54:29 < antto> muh army is growing
2020-12-15T22:54:41 < skz81> antto, fire him, rather
2020-12-15T22:55:17 < skz81> Steffanx, I got that one loud in my chat for month, so yes, a little bit
2020-12-15T22:55:51 < skz81> He w0z not waering the same nick, tho
2020-12-15T22:56:05 < skz81> wearing*
2020-12-15T22:56:08 < Steffanx> egggscuuuse muh?
2020-12-15T22:56:21 < skz81> Like a ninja suit in a video game ;°)
2020-12-15T22:56:35 < Steffanx> i think the maru is dead.
2020-12-15T22:56:41 < skz81> I eggsku U
2020-12-15T22:56:46 < skz81> z*
2020-12-15T22:56:53 < skz81> Ho, so sad
2020-12-15T22:57:00 < Steffanx> havent seen haohmaru for a while.
2020-12-15T22:57:06 < skz81> maru is cat is .jp ?
2020-12-15T22:57:23 < skz81> I dont understand the diff with neko, but meh
2020-12-15T22:57:33 < skz81> s/is/in/
2020-12-15T22:57:35 < Steffanx> idk, have to ask someone who speak japanese for that
2020-12-15T22:58:00 < zyp> it's not
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2020-12-15T22:58:59 < Steffanx> it seems to translate to not so much
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2020-12-15T23:00:06 < antto> eat this then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrU2DThhsZI
2020-12-15T23:00:21 < zyp> I guess it's the sixth sense here: https://jisho.org/word/%E4%B8%B8 or the third sense here: https://jisho.org/search/%E9%BA%BB%E5%91%82
2020-12-15T23:01:13 < zyp> in other words «shit people attach to a name to make it sound cuter»
2020-12-15T23:01:47 < zyp> kinda like the x in Steffanx 
2020-12-15T23:02:40 < qyx> or x in qyx?
2020-12-15T23:03:35 < Steffanx> No, i added the x to Steffan, because steffan was in use
2020-12-15T23:04:06 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-15T23:04:13 < antto> that's so practical, ur fired
2020-12-15T23:04:17 < kakium69> how dare someone use your name as nick
2020-12-15T23:05:40 < Steffanx> i was young and naive.
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2020-12-15T23:08:14 < antto> http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Mr3J7ONOFR8/maxresdefault.jpg
2020-12-15T23:08:49 < antto> now u know wut the x is for
2020-12-15T23:09:49 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@2001:a61:2a4e:2101:7441:b064:d8:11ae] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-12-15T23:10:17 < skz81> antto, X is to get high @ rave parties. Not the same X, mayB
2020-12-15T23:10:29 < skz81> mehB
2020-12-15T23:11:21 < skz81> That img. Look like a carnivorous plant vomiting on a cooker 
2020-12-15T23:17:21 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | pastebin https://waifupaste.moe/ | x
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2020-12-15T23:35:33 < karlp> TIL: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6307433/python-console-default-hex-display
2020-12-15T23:35:36 < karlp> tedious, but works
2020-12-15T23:44:28 < zyp> funky
2020-12-15T23:51:08 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPlQpGeTbIE
2020-12-15T23:51:19 < antto> (HD)
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--- Day changed Wed Dec 16 2020
2020-12-16T00:13:23 < qyx> til gtk broadway
2020-12-16T00:13:29 < qyx> somewhat worka
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2020-12-16T00:51:02 < karlp> neat, spidev works, and libgpiod is giving me auto timestamped edge dettection on an "irq" pin for doing this all in userspace
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2020-12-16T01:12:05 < kakium69> hello rocket crew
2020-12-16T01:12:34 < qyx> are you methane free
2020-12-16T01:12:43 < Steffanx> Rockets? Where?
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2020-12-16T01:12:50 < qyx> hm, 10 QFNs, one BGA and one TSSOP on a 50x50mm PCB
2020-12-16T01:13:37 < Steffanx> Lol. Qyx is upping his dense pcb game?
2020-12-16T01:14:46 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dYek4/Screenshot_2020-12-16_00-14-31.png
2020-12-16T01:14:51  * karlp runs python as root
2020-12-16T01:14:53 < qyx> I am curious what will EMC guy say
2020-12-16T01:16:21 -!- leorat [~leorat@unaffiliated/leorat] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2020-12-16T01:27:26  * karlp ponders whether adding threads will help....
2020-12-16T01:30:58 < zyp> kakium69, help with what?
2020-12-16T01:31:01 < zyp> karlp*
2020-12-16T01:31:10 < qyx> adding parts to a pcb always help
2020-12-16T01:31:15 < qyx> s
2020-12-16T01:31:50 < kakium69> qyx: very nice board
2020-12-16T01:31:56 < mawk> 22:35 <karlp> TIL: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6307433/python-console-default-hex-display
2020-12-16T01:32:03 < mawk> that's for the python REPL karlp 
2020-12-16T01:32:10 < mawk> which shitty 
2020-12-16T01:32:10 < zyp> well, duh
2020-12-16T01:32:19 < mawk> evryone should use ipython for its console
2020-12-16T01:32:25 < zyp> fuck ipython
2020-12-16T01:32:30 < mawk> why??????
2020-12-16T01:32:37 < mawk> there is no comparison between python's repl and ipython
2020-12-16T01:32:42 < mawk> ipython is infinitely better
2020-12-16T01:33:10 < mawk> I'm not even talking about notebooks or qtconsole, but just the ipython repl
2020-12-16T01:34:01 < karlp> zyp: eh, work stuff :)
2020-12-16T01:34:17 < karlp> using libgpiod to do userspace gpio irqs 
2020-12-16T01:34:31 < karlp> not entirely sure how the jitter is goign to work out.
2020-12-16T01:35:01 < karlp> the libgpiod python bindings only seem to give you a blocking "wait for events" which is fine, but I've already got breaks in my sequence from scheduling I presume.
2020-12-16T01:35:37 < karlp> would be nice though, having to move all this into the kernel would be so much more work!
2020-12-16T01:35:58 < karlp> at the moment it's only like 200 lines oif python
2020-12-16T01:36:01 < mawk> https://asciinema.org/a/1YLJXbCeDFxPv5S4OyroihF5o
2020-12-16T01:36:14 < mawk> ^ screencast of python3 vs ipython3
2020-12-16T01:36:53 < karlp> -bash: ipython: command not found
2020-12-16T01:37:03 < karlp> so it can go fuck itself right off then :)
2020-12-16T01:37:05 < mawk> you use python2?
2020-12-16T01:37:08 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T01:37:10 < karlp> no, I use venvs
2020-12-16T01:37:11 < mawk> best argument ever heard
2020-12-16T01:37:17 < mawk> it's not installed by default, therefore it can go fuck itself
2020-12-16T01:37:20 < mawk> then install it lol
2020-12-16T01:37:28 < karlp> for what? demos?
2020-12-16T01:37:30 < karlp> this works.
2020-12-16T01:37:39 < karlp> I'm never goign to bother with that print hack ever again
2020-12-16T01:37:48 < mawk> I'm not talking about the print hack in particular
2020-12-16T01:37:51 < karlp> I'll bear in mind that ipython might be worth looking at one day
2020-12-16T01:37:57 < mawk> jsut general python console for when you need to do stuff in command line
2020-12-16T01:38:09 < Steffanx> Laptop is not a french word mawk 
2020-12-16T01:38:16 < mawk> it's my hostname Steffanx 
2020-12-16T01:38:27 < mawk> but the ipython repl isn't the coolest thing about ipython, the coolest thing is notebooks
2020-12-16T01:38:35 < Steffanx> Yes. So? 
2020-12-16T01:38:41 < mawk> blocks of code you can execute independantly, but all running in a single execution context
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2020-12-16T01:38:51 < karlp> fuck me, ipython installed a MOUNTAIN of deps
2020-12-16T01:38:56 < mawk> you can interleave markdown and so on, use it to make presentations, parsing, and so on
2020-12-16T01:39:04 < mawk> yeah well it's not just a REPL
2020-12-16T01:39:10 < karlp> yes, I have seen how that's used for doing education
2020-12-16T01:39:20 < karlp> I've never really seen what on earht I'd use it for in any other context
2020-12-16T01:39:55 < mawk> I use it to develop scripts, then instead of launching the whole script at once I just relaunch the modified piece of code, keeping all other variables
2020-12-16T01:39:56 < BrainDamage> uhh, ipython by itself is just a repl, I think you're confusing it with jupyter
2020-12-16T01:39:59 < mawk> eg when I write parsers
2020-12-16T01:40:04 < mawk> yeah the name changed BrainDamage 
2020-12-16T01:40:10 < mawk> but the deps are from jupyter
2020-12-16T01:40:13 < BrainDamage> as in, the ipython code to handle notebooks has been forkee out
2020-12-16T01:40:24 < BrainDamage> in arch I can install just the repl
2020-12-16T01:40:45 < karlp> ipython is slow...
2020-12-16T01:41:05 < karlp> oh, fuck, it's one of those things that tabs to the first one, not blocking at options
2020-12-16T01:41:34 < mawk> it's slow to start the first time I guess, it needs to compile bytecode
2020-12-16T01:41:42 < mawk> but when you use it just like that I did not find it particularly slow
2020-12-16T01:41:53 < mawk> what? I don't see that behavior
2020-12-16T01:42:01 < mawk> if you look at the screencast, when you do tab it shows all the options
2020-12-16T01:42:05 < mawk> then you use arrow keys to select
2020-12-16T01:42:13 < BrainDamage> me neither, I get a menu prompt
2020-12-16T01:42:20 < mawk> or use tab again
2020-12-16T01:42:54 < mawk> one trick is to use funcname? to get help of a function, and funcname?? to get source code
2020-12-16T01:42:58 < mawk> the ? thing is very useful
2020-12-16T01:43:23 < karlp> anyway, I'm just happy with spidev+gpiod getting me this far today :)
2020-12-16T01:43:41 < BrainDamage> the % macros in ipython are neat
2020-12-16T01:45:08 < karlp> can... it reload an import?
2020-12-16T01:45:15 < karlp> that's what always annoys me for interactive dev
2020-12-16T01:46:14 < BrainDamage> https://ipython.readthedocs.io/en/stable/config/extensions/autoreload.html?highlight=autoreload
2020-12-16T01:46:41 < BrainDamage> part of the % macros I was mentioning
2020-12-16T01:50:07 < mawk> for interactive dev the notebook is invaluable
2020-12-16T01:50:32 < mawk> it takes it further by allowing to modify-execute parts of your code independantly
2020-12-16T01:50:39 < mawk> without having to restart it at the command line from the start every time
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2020-12-16T02:45:02 < englishman> https://www.shironekolabs.com/posts/superrt/
2020-12-16T02:49:23 < englishman> BrainDamage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjiEEoDTfF8
2020-12-16T02:51:08 < BrainDamage> excellent, thanks
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2020-12-16T05:50:36 < Hermitude> hey BrainDamage ive seen you before
2020-12-16T05:50:57 < Hermitude> maybe freecad channel
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2020-12-16T09:37:59 < mjml> @#!?
2020-12-16T09:38:39 < mjml> usb OTG/HS not supported without external phy
2020-12-16T09:39:26 < mjml> there is always some fine print that you miss before buying a device
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2020-12-16T10:21:02 < mawk> which device mjml ?
2020-12-16T10:22:38 < zyp> well, ethernet is also not supported without external phy :p
2020-12-16T10:42:18 < jpa-> mjml: some F7 devices have integrated HS phy
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2020-12-16T11:44:02 < mawk> one line article: https://tricks.serveur.io/autoformat-json-snippet-in-clipboard.html
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2020-12-16T11:47:45 < karlp> neither xsel nor sponge installed :)
2020-12-16T11:47:54 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T11:47:57  * karlp grins
2020-12-16T11:47:59 < mawk> you can remove |sponge probably
2020-12-16T11:48:03 < mawk> haven't try it without
2020-12-16T11:48:38 < mawk> but since it's reading and writing to the clipboard in parallel it's probably necessary to have it
2020-12-16T11:48:48 < karlp> Ive never really got into the "must be able to grab things in and out of the paste buffes" 
2020-12-16T11:48:58 < karlp> normally use json_reformat instead of jq .,
2020-12-16T11:49:09 < karlp> but that'smostly because I never remember jq's "obvious2 syntax
2020-12-16T11:49:41 < mawk> yeah I never understood jq syntax
2020-12-16T11:49:48 < mawk> but . is easy enough to remember
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2020-12-16T11:51:31 < mawk> "jq -C . | less -NR" is useful to remember also, to view nice colored and formatted json in terminal
2020-12-16T11:51:40 < mawk> can add -S to less if you want to truncate long lines to be even prettier
2020-12-16T11:52:14 < mawk> and in general I use pygmentize (sudo python3 -m pip install pygments) to color stuff from the command line, pygmentize shit.c | less -SNR
2020-12-16T11:52:22 < mawk> it's slow to start though, a bit annoying
2020-12-16T11:52:48 < karlp> just use vi[iew] ?
2020-12-16T11:53:04 < karlp> I mean, q vs :q to exit less/vi is ~not a meaningful thing
2020-12-16T11:53:14 < mawk> I have an allergic reaction to vi as a long-time emacs user
2020-12-16T11:53:40 < karlp> hang on, what  are you doing using these command line things anyway then, if you're an emacs user?
2020-12-16T11:53:47 < karlp> like. wat
2020-12-16T11:54:01 < srk> haha :D
2020-12-16T11:54:30 < mawk> I use them remotely as well
2020-12-16T11:54:35 < srk> I can only use emacs with evil 
2020-12-16T11:54:42 < mawk> but locally I can just do emacsclient ... to open in the current emacs window
2020-12-16T11:57:02 < mawk> also I haven't really tried but I'm not sure vi supports the 300 or so languages pygments supports
2020-12-16T11:57:20 < mawk> because having a brainfuck lexer is absolutely needed
2020-12-16T11:58:19 < mjml> mawk: f407
2020-12-16T12:00:35 < mawk> it says "on-chip phy" on the site
2020-12-16T12:00:56 < mawk> but only for FS
2020-12-16T12:00:57 < mjml> for FS
2020-12-16T12:01:10 < mjml> :~I
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2020-12-16T12:01:30 < mjml> its fine i dont really need hs speeds
2020-12-16T12:01:37 < mjml> its just a little cnc controller
2020-12-16T12:03:43 < karlp> mawk: I would imagine vim supports far more languages than pygments...
2020-12-16T12:03:53 < srk> mjml: oO steppers?
2020-12-16T12:04:14 < mawk> with plugins yes I guess karlp , I mean by default
2020-12-16T12:04:23 < mawk> but maybe, I haven't checked
2020-12-16T12:04:44 < mjml> srk yes
2020-12-16T12:05:07 < mjml> closed loop steppers in fact
2020-12-16T12:05:09 < srk> mjml: good luck :)
2020-12-16T12:05:13 < srk> even ^^
2020-12-16T12:06:05 < srk> which encoder? how do you gonna maintain position? interrupt based PID?
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2020-12-16T13:07:19 < BrainDamage> mawk: export LESSCOLORIZER='pygmentize'
2020-12-16T13:07:40 < mawk> yes
2020-12-16T13:07:43 < mawk> but it doesn't work with pipes
2020-12-16T13:07:49 < mawk> so I like to separate it so I can give the lexer explicitly
2020-12-16T13:07:49 < BrainDamage> no need to manually pipe things, and it'll process color in the backggroun
2020-12-16T13:07:52 < BrainDamage> lesspipe
2020-12-16T13:08:11 < mawk> I mean, when the file to color is from a pipe
2020-12-16T13:08:17 < mawk> then it cannot detect automatically the language
2020-12-16T13:08:37 < mawk> processing colors in the background is nice though
2020-12-16T13:09:08 < qyx> mjml: for hs phy, f723
2020-12-16T13:09:37 < mjml> ok, truly puzzled: when I call USB_EnableGlobalInt, device hardfaults
2020-12-16T13:09:55 < mawk> you have a irq handler?
2020-12-16T13:10:02 < mjml> yes, checked that right away
2020-12-16T13:10:23 < mjml> that was also the posted solution to others having the same problem
2020-12-16T13:10:45 < mawk> and you have non-weird priorities for each irq?
2020-12-16T13:10:48 < mawk> configured in the nvic
2020-12-16T13:12:30 < mjml> i put the otg_fs handler to 0x0a, which is fairly low priority
2020-12-16T13:12:56 < mjml> systick is still defaulted to 0x0f which is arguably a bit weird but this should have nothing to do with that
2020-12-16T13:15:38 < zyp> instead of guessing, have you checked which kind of fault led to the hardfault?
2020-12-16T13:16:01 < mjml> i don't know how to do that
2020-12-16T13:16:09 < zyp> check SCB_CFSR
2020-12-16T13:18:46 < mjml> is that a cortex register?
2020-12-16T13:19:26 < zyp> yes
2020-12-16T13:20:11 < zyp> if you've got gdb, you can read it with «x/wx 0xe000ed28»
2020-12-16T13:21:06 < karlp> you can also.. https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb
2020-12-16T13:21:14 < zyp> yes
2020-12-16T13:21:38 < mjml> where are those registers documented? <staring at stm32f4 reference manual>
2020-12-16T13:21:39 < karlp> (then you just "vecstate" and don't bother learning the addresses, zyps method is first principles)
2020-12-16T13:21:44 < karlp> mjml: they're in arm docs, not st docs
2020-12-16T13:21:48 < karlp> as they're part of the cpu core.
2020-12-16T13:21:58 < mjml> ok i have those too
2020-12-16T13:21:59 < karlp>  you want the armv7m TRM, if you really want to go there
2020-12-16T13:22:16 < zyp> e.g. here: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0552/a/cortex-m3-peripherals/system-control-block/configurable-fault-status-register
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2020-12-16T13:24:34 < mjml> that address, though -- you got that from the cortex document? shouldnt it be device specific
2020-12-16T13:24:44 < zyp> no
2020-12-16T13:25:04 < zyp> it's identical in every cortex-m (except m0 that doesn't have it)
2020-12-16T13:26:01 < mjml> ok
2020-12-16T13:27:05 < zyp> core peripherals may differ a bit in features, both between the different cortex-m variants and because some features are optional so it's up to the vendor to decide whether to include them or not
2020-12-16T13:27:22 < zyp> but all features present are always at the same addrs
2020-12-16T13:27:31 < zyp> those addrs are reserved otherwise
2020-12-16T13:27:51 < mjml> 0x8200
2020-12-16T13:28:15 < zyp> so BFARVALID | PRECISERR
2020-12-16T13:28:40 < zyp> sounds like you tried accessing an invalid address somewhere
2020-12-16T13:28:48 < zyp> tried doing a backtrace in gdb?
2020-12-16T13:29:22 < mjml> yes, it happens right when USB_EnableGlobalInt tries to enable global interrupts for the USB_OTG_FS
2020-12-16T13:29:25 < zyp> usually when you get a PRECISERR you get a backtrace directly to the invalid access IIRC
2020-12-16T13:29:40 < zyp> that's not specific enough
2020-12-16T13:29:53 < mjml> i can disassemble it
2020-12-16T13:30:03 < zyp> can you pastebin the backtrace itself?
2020-12-16T13:30:55 < mjml> https://pastebin.com/VtaWZJjB
2020-12-16T13:31:37 < zyp> which f4 is this?
2020-12-16T13:31:58 < mjml> f407
2020-12-16T13:32:55 < mjml> not even sure how you got those flags
2020-12-16T13:33:47 < mjml> 0x8200 the low byte is clear
2020-12-16T13:33:48 < zyp> uh, this can't be right: USBx=0x20020000
2020-12-16T13:34:08 < mjml> why not
2020-12-16T13:34:12 < zyp> f407 has 128k main ram and 64k CCM, right?
2020-12-16T13:34:27 < mjml> f407zet
2020-12-16T13:34:33 < zyp> so 0x20020000 is right past the end of main ram
2020-12-16T13:36:02 < zyp> in other words, that's an invalid address, so when the function tries dereferencing something in it, you get a busfault
2020-12-16T13:36:04 < mjml> 192k main ram
2020-12-16T13:36:13 < zyp> no, 128k main ram and 64k CCM
2020-12-16T13:36:29 < mjml> oh
2020-12-16T13:37:21 < mjml> i was looking at that too it seemed high
2020-12-16T13:38:01 < zyp> oh, wait
2020-12-16T13:38:12 < mjml> i had increased my heap and stack slightly, but not that much
2020-12-16T13:38:19 < zyp> #3  0x0800273e in HAL_PCD_Start (hpcd=0x0) at
2020-12-16T13:38:31 < zyp> hpcd = 0
2020-12-16T13:39:33 < zyp> first address in the hpcd struct is probably supposed to be a pointer to the peripheral, but since it's a nullpointer you end up reading whatever is stored at address 0 instead
2020-12-16T13:40:00 < zyp> which is first entry of the vector table, which is initial stack address, which usually points to end of ram
2020-12-16T13:41:25 < mjml> yeah i'm taking a look ... most of this was stock cube code copied over from another project
2020-12-16T13:42:14 < mjml> Well, I think I can trace it from here
2020-12-16T13:42:41 < mjml> I'm still an arm newbie and I can't call on you guys in a job interview :o
2020-12-16T13:45:02 < mjml> thanks for the help though
2020-12-16T13:45:40 < zyp> heh, working out an issue like this would be a fun job interview :)
2020-12-16T13:46:15 < zyp> more fun than fizzbuzz at least
2020-12-16T13:51:12 < mawk> null page at address 0 was a good idea of x86
2020-12-16T13:51:17 < mawk> to prevent issues like this
2020-12-16T13:51:18 < mjml> i think the struct isn't getting zeroed out to start and that's causing initialization issues
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2020-12-16T13:51:41 < mjml> it's weird that it never happened in cubeide
2020-12-16T13:51:50 < mawk> non-const uninitialized data is zeroed out at program start, in theory
2020-12-16T13:51:56 < mawk> when it's in the .bss section
2020-12-16T13:51:58 < mawk> but I wouldn't count on it
2020-12-16T13:52:02 < tomeaton17> How can you easily select traces under/overlapping a pad in altium?
2020-12-16T13:52:12 < karlp> well, you gotta make sure it gets into bss if you want to rely on that sort of thing :)
2020-12-16T13:52:29 < karlp> static int blah; << will be zeroed
2020-12-16T13:52:34 < karlp> int blah; << will not be zeroed
2020-12-16T13:52:59 < zyp> not necessarily true
2020-12-16T13:53:11 < mawk> if it's in a function body
2020-12-16T13:53:23 < zyp> yes
2020-12-16T13:53:47 < zyp> all globals are always initialized
2020-12-16T13:54:43 < zyp> unless of course you put it in a special section on purpose
2020-12-16T13:55:04 < karlp> hrm, there was some exception for it I can't remeber now of course :|
2020-12-16T13:55:51 < zyp> it's just heap and stack variables that are not implicitly initialized
2020-12-16T13:58:53 < zyp> and for C++ I think that only goes for types without a default constructor
2020-12-16T13:59:10 < mawk> https://news.uark.edu/articles/54830/physicists-build-circuit-that-generates-clean-limitless-power-from-graphene what
2020-12-16T13:59:16 < mawk> free energy is here
2020-12-16T13:59:21 < mawk> invest in this guy's company
2020-12-16T14:00:35 < zyp> harvested energy != free energy
2020-12-16T14:02:34 < mjml> ugh i found it -- i still had an USB_OTG_HS macro sitting where an USB_OTG_FS one should have been and the usb structs were not getting initialized properly
2020-12-16T14:02:45 < zyp> :)
2020-12-16T14:03:17 < mjml> i did a search for 'HS' but this one eluded me
2020-12-16T14:03:18 < karlp> mjml: so... 
2020-12-16T14:03:24 < karlp> some of those parts have two ports, 
2020-12-16T14:03:33 < karlp> and the hs one can still run in fs mode without an external phy
2020-12-16T14:03:48 < BrainDamage> those are a lot of words to explain that he built another thermodynamic machine
2020-12-16T14:03:49 < karlp> the OTG_HS and OTG_FS are just the addresses of which periph you're plugged into?
2020-12-16T14:06:12 < mjml> it's just an extra switch that tells USBD_Init that help it initialize and populate the core usbd struct
2020-12-16T14:06:27 < mjml> *tells it how to initialize
2020-12-16T14:06:53 < mjml> ok well, everything runs but my device still doesn't show up in lsusb
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2020-12-16T14:07:15 < mjml> then again, the default cube project with usb fully configured doesn't show up there either
2020-12-16T14:07:45 < mawk> and dmesg ?
2020-12-16T14:08:39 < mjml> ah its spammed with oom reaper messages from a few minutes ago
2020-12-16T14:08:50 < mjml> sometimes i multitask too much
2020-12-16T14:11:41 < mjml> i had intended to use the OTG_HS port for the speed until I realized that it needs an external phy
2020-12-16T14:12:09 < mjml> i could have just switched to using FS, but my dev board actually has the usb port wired to PA11/PA12 which is the OTG_FS port
2020-12-16T14:12:18 < englishman> tomeaton17: use the selection filter, or doubleclick
2020-12-16T14:12:26 < mawk> then why not use that port mjml ?
2020-12-16T14:12:35 < mjml> that's what i'm currently doing
2020-12-16T14:12:36 < zyp> the OTG_HS port also got an internal FS phy
2020-12-16T14:12:42 < karlp> that's what I was tryign to say :)
2020-12-16T14:12:55 < zyp> just reiterating :)
2020-12-16T14:13:15 < mjml> and when i switched my code over to use OTG_FS, i missed switching one of the macro switch names and that's what got me
2020-12-16T14:17:43 < tomeaton17> thanks englishman
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2020-12-16T15:42:02 < mawk> zyp: f(x) + f(1/(1-x)) = x, what is f?
2020-12-16T15:42:43 < mawk> I can tell you right away the solution, it wouldn't help with proving it though: f(x) = 1/2 ( 1 + x + 1/(x[1-x]) )
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2020-12-16T15:55:23 < zyp> heh
2020-12-16T16:02:59 < zyp> I guess you rewrite it to f(x) = x - f(1/(1-x)), and then you have a nice recursive function to sort out
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2020-12-16T16:07:55 < mawk> this sounds like mathematical quicksand
2020-12-16T16:12:21 < zyp> what's the trick=
2020-12-16T16:13:04 < mawk> let's call g(x) = 1/(1-x) for convenience
2020-12-16T16:13:17 < mawk> by playing around you can find that g(g(g(x))) = x
2020-12-16T16:13:31 < mawk> so just replace x by g(g(x)) in the equation
2020-12-16T16:14:10 < mawk> f(g(g(x))) + f(x) = g(g(x))
2020-12-16T16:14:42 < mawk> and f(g(g(x))) is g(x) - f(g(x)) as per the equation
2020-12-16T16:14:51 < mawk> so g(x) - f(g(x)) + f(x) = g(g(x))
2020-12-16T16:15:04 < mawk> reorganize a bit, that is f(x) - f(g(x)) = g(g(x)) - g(x)
2020-12-16T16:15:15 < mawk> so now you have f(x) + f(g(x)) = A, f(x) - f(g(x)) = B
2020-12-16T16:15:20 < mawk> so f(x) = (A+B)/2
2020-12-16T16:15:53 < mawk> g(g(x)) is also g⁻¹(x), the inverse of g
2020-12-16T16:15:54 < mawk> that's how I found
2020-12-16T16:16:04 < mawk> I compute g⁻¹(x), I compute g(g(x)), found they are the same, bingo
2020-12-16T16:17:38 < mawk> >>> f = lambda x: 1/2*(1 + x - 1/(x*(1-x))); f(123) + f(1/(1-123)) - 123 == 0.0
2020-12-16T16:17:40 < mawk> True
2020-12-16T16:18:03 < aandrew> if you say so
2020-12-16T16:18:29 < emeb> https://twitter.com/ph_hofer/status/1339079865375416320/photo/1
2020-12-16T16:18:53 < mawk> you want a 2h magistral class aandrew ?
2020-12-16T16:19:47 < aandrew> nope can't today
2020-12-16T16:19:59 < mawk> :(
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2020-12-16T16:26:46 < englishman> SolarWinds123
2020-12-16T16:26:48 < englishman> oops wrong window
2020-12-16T16:28:04 < aandrew> Hunter2
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2020-12-16T16:37:06 < karlp> nice. libgpiod build requires linux kernel headers 5.10 or newer. that came out 3 days ago.
2020-12-16T16:37:19 < karlp> and has been required in libgpiod since october...
2020-12-16T16:37:31 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T16:37:47 < mawk> what are you using it for?
2020-12-16T16:38:08 < mawk> I suppose you didn't want to use /dev/gpiochipN directly
2020-12-16T16:38:18 < mawk> it's quite easy
2020-12-16T16:41:41 < karlp> I'm kinda wishing I had now, but I'm using the python bindings.
2020-12-16T16:42:02 < karlp> of course, I need things only added recently to the python bindings,
2020-12-16T16:42:12 < karlp> and now it looks like I'll need to backport that...
2020-12-16T16:43:08 < mawk> it wouldn't be much work to do a python binding yourself with ctypes or even cffi
2020-12-16T16:43:23 < mawk> that would parse /usr/include/linux/gpiochip.h or whatever it is
2020-12-16T16:43:41 < qyx> it's going to take a while to route this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/6WK9s/Screenshot_2020-12-16_15-42-48.png
2020-12-16T16:43:53 < mawk> and give you an automatic binding, python already has an ioctl function, you would just need to fill in the buffer with structures defined with ctypes/cffi from that .h
2020-12-16T16:44:13 < mawk> that's why you use autorouter qyx 
2020-12-16T16:44:19 < mawk> prahalad "autorouter" rajeshki
2020-12-16T16:44:30 < mawk> you feed him a soup at noon and it's automatic
2020-12-16T16:45:13 < karlp> mawk: again, sure, if I was starting from scratch
2020-12-16T16:45:45 < karlp> but when you have it working with the "apt install python3-libgpiod" then see that you need a function added in a later version, the first idea is "build the latest version" not "I should rewrite this binding from scratch"
2020-12-16T16:46:02 < karlp> but I know, as a lover of first principles maths, you're a big fan of re-doing things :)
2020-12-16T16:46:27 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T16:46:51 < emeb> it's never too late to start over
2020-12-16T16:47:05 < karlp> that too..
2020-12-16T16:49:23 < karlp> yech, armbian runs 5.9.14, but has 5.4 kernel headers installed...
2020-12-16T16:49:30 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T16:49:47 < karlp> doesn't matter, still not 5.10, which provides this "v2" uapi that libgpiod uses :)
2020-12-16T16:59:44 < karlp> I kinda wish I could find where this comes from: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/libs/libgpiod/libgpiod.git/tree/lib/core.c#n1228
2020-12-16T17:02:39 < qyx> any idea why some pads are not wanting to connect to a polygon pour? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p2rVP/Screenshot_2020-12-16_16-02-05.png
2020-12-16T17:05:20 < englishman> yikes
2020-12-16T17:08:17 < emeb> these aren't the GNDs you're looking for
2020-12-16T17:11:23 < qyx> if I connect them manuall it doesn't complain
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2020-12-16T17:20:18 < karlp> whewww, found it finally: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/gpio/gpiolib-cdev.c#n1460
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2020-12-16T17:37:36 < mawk> bootlin site is useful for that karlp 
2020-12-16T17:37:56 < mawk> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/kernel
2020-12-16T17:38:03 < mawk> it can look up symbols in the whole kernel source
2020-12-16T17:38:05 < mawk> then it's easy to find
2020-12-16T17:39:02 < karlp> what symbol would you have looked for?
2020-12-16T17:39:20 < karlp> you hear that "there's a kernel fifo for uapi events"
2020-12-16T17:40:56 < mawk> ah I thought you were looking for a symbol somewhere
2020-12-16T17:42:07 < karlp> libgpiod has a "16" hardcoded number on max events, and refers to the kernel, but no way of seeing what sort of limit that is.
2020-12-16T17:42:31 < karlp> and I've seen in other placs, where the kfifo is syfs controllable depth,
2020-12-16T17:42:37 < karlp> so was curious what the real limits were.
2020-12-16T17:42:49 < karlp> but it's hardcdoed to 16 in the kernel as well (at the moment)
2020-12-16T17:43:55 < mawk> the comment seem to imply that with v2 it's not hardcoded
2020-12-16T17:44:08 < mawk> but the code you found looks like it says the contrary
2020-12-16T17:44:34 < karlp> hence why I wanted to find what it really was.
2020-12-16T17:45:31 < mawk> but the code you found is the v1 api
2020-12-16T17:45:36 < mawk> I think
2020-12-16T17:45:42 < mawk> according to the define above: #ifdef CONFIG_GPIO_CDEV_V1
2020-12-16T17:46:30 < mawk> but there's no #ifdef CONFIG_GPIO_CDEV_V2 so meh
2020-12-16T17:46:56 < mawk> hmm actually
2020-12-16T17:47:00 < mawk> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/gpio/gpiolib-cdev.c#L2224
2020-12-16T17:47:45 < mawk> it does things differently between v1 and v2 here, if the limit isn't hardcoded then I expect truncation to occur there
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2020-12-16T17:59:24 < jpa-> hmm.. it is somehow fitting that http://www.china-mark.com/ sells CE-mark testing supplies *and* shares pirated versions of the related standards :D
2020-12-16T17:59:34 < jpa-> now i can feel confident putting the china mark on my products, too
2020-12-16T18:13:49 < mawk> lol
2020-12-16T18:14:45 < mawk> IEC stuff?
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2020-12-16T23:12:47 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-12-16T23:14:23 < qyx> hm
2020-12-16T23:32:43 < antto> hM
2020-12-16T23:45:44 < Steffanx> Welcome. How is the day?
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2020-12-16T23:59:30 < t4nk_freenode> hmmmzz
--- Day changed Thu Dec 17 2020
2020-12-17T00:09:42 < Steffanx> Welcome fellow dutchlander
2020-12-17T00:09:50 < Steffanx> Do you feel locked down?
2020-12-17T00:11:39 < antto> our brains have been permanently damaged
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2020-12-17T04:17:55 < jadew> just got hbo go and they show the imdb rating when you hover over a title, but they hide it if it's too bad
2020-12-17T04:48:45 < machinehum> That's some authorianism bullshit right there
2020-12-17T04:50:36 < machinehum> My gf said that workaholics is "too juvenile"... I'm like two steps up from a fucking ape. AND I look like that long hair fucker why is she dating me?
2020-12-17T05:01:02 < machinehum> Does anyone have a decent stepper driver reco? I like the L6470 because it connects over SPI and you can twiddle with a bunch of shit to change say... resonance and stuff
2020-12-17T05:01:08 < machinehum> But it's a bit too pricy
2020-12-17T05:01:31 < machinehum> I hate those drivers with just the three mod pins and use a resistor to set the current limit
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2020-12-17T09:00:23 < PaulFertser> machinehum: TMC2100 ;)
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2020-12-17T12:12:37 < mjml> Ok, this has got to be an error in the documentation
2020-12-17T12:13:52 < mjml> USB middleware doc (UM1734) says that to get the USB CDC stack going, you have to call USBD_CDC_Init
2020-12-17T12:14:09 < mjml> this is a private function
2020-12-17T12:14:30 < mjml> I mean, it becomes one of the class callbacks
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2020-12-17T12:19:20 < mjml> none of the examples actually do this
2020-12-17T12:19:32 < mjml> at least not explicitly in application code
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2020-12-17T12:51:32 < Steffanx> not sure what youre doing, but .. does it work without it mjml?
2020-12-17T12:51:41 < Steffanx> and i never used the cdc stuff
2020-12-17T12:51:52 < Steffanx> Not with the cube at least
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2020-12-17T13:39:38 < mjml> well, even in CubeIDE a stock USB/CDC project doesn't work out of the box
2020-12-17T13:40:28 < mjml> USBD_CDC_Init never even gets called
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2020-12-17T14:09:17 < mawk> it worked out of the box for me, mjml 
2020-12-17T14:10:23 < Steffanx> You're a pro.
2020-12-17T14:10:32 < mawk> of course
2020-12-17T14:11:48 < Steffanx> Imagine using pro tools and http://www2.keil.com/mdk5/legacy/ is down for a week
2020-12-17T14:13:08 < Steffanx> oh lol the entire shit is down http://www2.keil.com/mdk5 too
2020-12-17T14:13:18 < englishman> what's www2
2020-12-17T14:13:28 < englishman> is that like world war 3 2?
2020-12-17T14:14:04 < Steffanx> Go to https://www.keil.com/product/ and click on "Arm Development Tools" 
2020-12-17T14:14:15 < Steffanx> Fuck do i know why they use www2
2020-12-17T14:14:56 < englishman> apparently digikey sells keil
2020-12-17T14:16:05 < Steffanx> Farnell too
2020-12-17T14:17:06 < qyx> discount at aisler?
2020-12-17T14:17:08 < qyx> or wat
2020-12-17T14:18:59 < Steffanx> 2 pizza?
2020-12-17T14:19:01 < englishman> Macron has the wu flu lol
2020-12-17T14:19:13 < Steffanx> Did you queen have it yet?
2020-12-17T14:19:16 < Steffanx> *your
2020-12-17T14:19:21 < englishman> who
2020-12-17T14:19:27 < qyx> our macron has something more dangerous or wat
2020-12-17T14:19:34 < englishman> you mean Celine Dion?
2020-12-17T14:19:40 < qyx> he is psychically unstable
2020-12-17T14:19:52 < Steffanx> Noooo. THE queen
2020-12-17T14:20:00 < englishman> Mitsou?
2020-12-17T14:20:06 < Steffanx> madonna
2020-12-17T14:20:24 < Steffanx> Queen Elizabeth II
2020-12-17T14:21:37 < englishman> never heard of him
2020-12-17T14:26:25 < zyp> not much of an englishman, eh
2020-12-17T14:27:08 < jadew> I managed to get my DSLR to work as a webcam
2020-12-17T14:27:27 < englishman> zyp, I found why the egolf is so cheap now. the model 3 Sr+ is only $50 more per month in a lease
2020-12-17T14:27:46 < englishman> they just werent competitive
2020-12-17T14:28:14 < zyp> they've also stopped making egolf
2020-12-17T14:28:29 < englishman> yes but they still have plenty of inventory
2020-12-17T14:28:41 < englishman> tbh the sr+ is cheaper than some hundais
2020-12-17T14:29:44 < zyp> hmm, it's 400k NOK here
2020-12-17T14:30:30 < englishman> About the same here, but 90k back from the government
2020-12-17T14:31:05 < zyp> 400k NOK is after benefits here (VAT/fees exemption)
2020-12-17T14:31:20 < englishman> so on a four year lease you pay 2700nok/month taxes in
2020-12-17T14:32:01 < englishman> I don't lease, but many do as cars get beat to death here due to poor roads and the winter salt
2020-12-17T14:32:25 < zyp> hmm, id.3 starts at 360k, id.4 starts at 427k
2020-12-17T14:33:13 < zyp> TMY starts at 535k
2020-12-17T14:33:34 < englishman> model y only comes in long range, so there's a big premium
2020-12-17T14:34:43 < zyp> TMS at 776k, TMX at 904k, they've bumped up the prices on those quite a bit
2020-12-17T14:35:56 < englishman> yes the model refresh is coming. they were $69,420 over the summer. base model is now 650km range
2020-12-17T14:36:47 < zyp> not sure what I'll buy next, but I want something that can tow
2020-12-17T14:37:30 < englishman> both the model y and model 3 can, at least in Europe, maybe not in 
2020-12-17T14:37:33 < englishman> .no
2020-12-17T14:37:37 < zyp> yes
2020-12-17T14:37:49 < zyp> also id.3 can't, but id.4 can
2020-12-17T14:38:03 < englishman> that's a letdown
2020-12-17T14:38:58 < englishman> in a few years im sure there will be more competition from the koreans
2020-12-17T14:39:05 < zyp> I think I'd like more space than what model 3 got, and I'm not sure I'd pay 100k more for model y over id.4
2020-12-17T14:39:14 < englishman> Japanese have pretty much missed the boat
2020-12-17T14:39:29 < zyp> and yeah, there's a ton of other options I haven't looked at in detail
2020-12-17T14:39:50 < englishman> not really tho. the jaguar is smaller than the model Y
2020-12-17T14:39:55 < englishman> and much more money
2020-12-17T14:40:07 < mjml> mawk: maybe it's my hardware. I had the dev board plugged into a usb hub
2020-12-17T14:40:29 < mjml> it made a brief showing as a VCP but now it's back in stealth mode
2020-12-17T14:40:40 < zyp> yeah, i-pace and etron looks more like TMX competitors
2020-12-17T14:40:46 < zyp> price-wise
2020-12-17T14:41:06 < englishman> id4 could be a good purchase. they will be selling it here too but not the id3. if they ever decide to sell it that is
2020-12-17T14:41:33 < zyp> did I mention I test drove the id.3?
2020-12-17T14:41:39 < englishman> nice
2020-12-17T14:41:57 < mawk> as vcp mjml ? you have a nucleo-144 board right?
2020-12-17T14:42:00 < englishman> how is it?
2020-12-17T14:42:23 < mawk> ah yes you said cdc; anyway what does dmesg say?
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2020-12-17T14:43:41 < zyp> it's «touch all the things» which is kinda bullshit but I guess I could get used to that
2020-12-17T14:44:01 < zyp> and the lane assist felt less useful than in the egolf
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2020-12-17T14:44:04 < zyp> apart from that it was nice
2020-12-17T14:45:12 < zyp> I have the impression that id.4 will be much the same, just with a bit more room and a tow hook
2020-12-17T14:46:26 < mjml> ahh, it says Device not responding to setup address.
2020-12-17T14:47:00 < zyp> when they get the id.4 I'm gonna ask them if I can test it overnight or over a weekend even, so I can try it out with the kid seat and everything
2020-12-17T14:47:16 < mjml> device descriptor read/64, error -71
2020-12-17T14:47:30 < mjml> it doesn't seem to like my device descriptor
2020-12-17T14:47:51 < mjml> i was looking at udevadm monitor before and nothing was happening
2020-12-17T14:47:58 < mjml> dmesg is much nicer
2020-12-17T14:49:04 < englishman> I do like the autopilot in the tesla quite a bit
2020-12-17T14:49:09 < zyp> egolf's a bit too small to comfortably have a kid seat behind the drivers seat
2020-12-17T14:49:13 < englishman> it's about 90% of my driving
2020-12-17T14:49:33 < mjml> mawk my board is a chinese F407ZET
2020-12-17T14:49:44 < mjml> device rather
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2020-12-17T14:50:55 < zyp> so that's another thing I'd like to improve next time I buy a car
2020-12-17T14:51:41 < zyp> assuming I still have a kid using a car seat next time I buy a car :p
2020-12-17T14:51:48 < mjml> have you ever fallen asleep while on autopilot
2020-12-17T14:51:54 < englishman> since July 1 when it started stopping at red lights and stop signs it went to 90% from about 60%
2020-12-17T14:51:56 < mjml> if so what happened
2020-12-17T14:52:06 < mjml> did it drive you home
2020-12-17T14:52:23 < zyp> mjml, I think it checks if you are paying attention too often for that to happen
2020-12-17T14:52:31 < englishman> it needs user feedback from time to time, so just like if you fell asleep in a normal car, it will slow to a stop
2020-12-17T14:52:39 < mawk> mjml: on some chinese boards the usb port is sometimes badly soldered
2020-12-17T14:52:51 < mawk> you have several of the same boards to try?
2020-12-17T14:53:03 < englishman> or I guess in a normal car with cruise control, you'd die
2020-12-17T14:53:17 < englishman> because cruise control wouldn't deactivate
2020-12-17T14:54:15 < mjml> mawk: yeah I have a few but the soldering looks fine
2020-12-17T14:54:20 < englishman> maybe not in radar cruise control. idk. anyway it just deactivates if you don't fondle it every once in a while
2020-12-17T14:54:42 < mjml> like i said it showed up briefly as a VCP
2020-12-17T14:55:01 < englishman> so you can read the newspaper and play cyberpunk in the car as long as you are distracted by driving every once in a while
2020-12-17T14:57:38 < karlp> thanks for that china-mark site jpa, now Iv'e got eh UL version of 61010-1, with the "special" amendments not in the iec one.
2020-12-17T14:58:10 < karlp> it's not the current version unfortunately, but better than nothing
2020-12-17T14:58:13 < karlp> and fuck giving UL money
2020-12-17T14:58:20 < zyp> heh :)
2020-12-17T15:00:15 < karlp> they have the current version of en-61010-1 though, if someone wants taht...
2020-12-17T15:12:45 < mjml> mawk: was your device self-powered and if so, did you enable vbus sensing?
2020-12-17T15:14:31 < mjml> or maybe more appropriately, if your device was NOT self-powered, did you use vbus sensing to facilitate device initialization
2020-12-17T15:16:29 < mawk> it was self powered yes
2020-12-17T15:16:31 < mawk> that's how they did it on this nucleo-144 board
2020-12-17T15:16:35 < mawk> and I just flashed verbatim the example code provided by st, I don't remember if it had vbus sensing or not
2020-12-17T15:16:37 < mawk> but anyway the most parcimonious explanation in general is not that $big_hardware_vendor is shipping broken libraries and code
2020-12-17T15:16:39 < mawk> although with ST you never know
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2020-12-17T15:28:10 < Steffanx> nor with NXP mawk
2020-12-17T15:28:17 < Steffanx> Their examples can be shitty and broken
2020-12-17T15:30:20 < Steffanx> Like when you use their libs which does PLL initialisation and because you cannot poll for a bit if its ready, no you have to way for 250us. Their libs have a delay loop that
2020-12-17T15:30:23 < Steffanx> s too short.
2020-12-17T15:30:42 < Steffanx> 99 of 100 times it works fine... until it doesnt
2020-12-17T15:30:49 < Steffanx> *way = wait
2020-12-17T15:32:28 < Steffanx> or the CAN examples that use the same interface to access the CAN mailbox. Which you should NOT do, not ever. Which is well explained in the UM, yet the example does it.
2020-12-17T15:32:38 < Steffanx> or .. whatever it shitty :P
2020-12-17T15:35:44 < mjml> mawk: I don't think their libraries are broken but some of their documentation (especially USB) is a bit sketchy
2020-12-17T15:48:22 < mawk> Steffanx: yeah or the ST example that doesn't use external crystal for usb, or something like this
2020-12-17T15:48:24 < mawk> and the RM says you shouldn't
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2020-12-17T16:01:33 < mjml> any of you guys use Microchip? I'm going to try them next
2020-12-17T16:02:00 < mjml> they have a Canadian office near me
2020-12-17T16:02:34 < PaulFertser> microchip what?
2020-12-17T16:02:47 < zyp> the sam family of mcus, I guess
2020-12-17T16:03:01 < fenugrec> pic16f84a of course
2020-12-17T16:03:02 < mjml> sam-e etc
2020-12-17T16:03:18 < zyp> I have a samd21 based thing here but I haven't really had time to play with it yet
2020-12-17T16:03:55 < mjml> same I have an E70 still sitting in a box
2020-12-17T16:04:03 < mjml> it looks beefy
2020-12-17T16:07:03 < Steffanx> I still call them Atmel, but yeah :P
2020-12-17T16:08:41 < mjml> the device i have is similar to an F7 or maybe H7
2020-12-17T16:09:22 < mjml> but with fewer gpios and more dedicated ports for external peripherals
2020-12-17T16:10:43 < mjml> i like st hardware a lot, but maneuvering all the callbacks and layers in their software stack can be a pain
2020-12-17T16:11:02 < mawk> try them next what do you mean mjml 
2020-12-17T16:11:06 < mawk> are you giving up already?
2020-12-17T16:11:19 < mjml> no, i mean on a separate project -- probably late this year
2020-12-17T16:11:22 < mawk> just don't use the software stack if you don't want to
2020-12-17T16:11:26 < mawk> you have alternatives
2020-12-17T16:11:38 < mawk> even some homegrown in ##stm32 
2020-12-17T16:11:48 < mjml> normally I just use LL if I can help it
2020-12-17T16:11:58 < PaulFertser> Isn't atmel library even more layered?
2020-12-17T16:12:05 < mjml> I really wanted to use the USB middleware package and that requires HAL
2020-12-17T16:12:21 < mjml> PaulFertser: I don't know I haven't taken a look at it yet
2020-12-17T16:12:21 < mawk> well you're probably 99% close to getting it working
2020-12-17T16:12:24 < mawk> just look at more examles
2020-12-17T16:12:38 < mawk> and try another board just for good measure
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2020-12-17T16:13:13 < mjml> Yeah I have a bin with some blue pills in it that I've been waiting to try
2020-12-17T16:13:24 < mawk> no I mean identical to the one you have now
2020-12-17T16:13:27 < mawk> to rule out hw defect
2020-12-17T16:13:37 < mawk> but yeah you can try the bluepill if you want, but it's shittier than what you have now
2020-12-17T16:13:43 < mawk> keep your current chip
2020-12-17T16:14:00 < mjml> I suppose I would eventually but I did have it communicating briefly with the host
2020-12-17T16:14:11 < mawk> yeah that can happen if it's wobbly I guess
2020-12-17T16:14:22 < mjml> It just decided that it did not want to accept setup packets
2020-12-17T16:14:35 < mawk> you can use wireshark to try to debug usb issues
2020-12-17T16:14:36 < mjml> since then it's been like trying to bath a cat
2020-12-17T16:14:45 < mawk> it doesn't show everything, fo rthat you need a hardware probe, but it's useful
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2020-12-17T16:39:06 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D8IT7nKUmc&feature=em-lbrm T-6.something for whoever wants to know
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2020-12-17T16:41:30 < mjml> what is that count down
2020-12-17T16:43:00 < mjml> do you work for spacex steffanx
2020-12-17T16:43:31 < Steffanx> nope
2020-12-17T16:43:37 < englishman> i have a spacex polo and get that question a lot.
2020-12-17T16:43:59 < mjml> didnt they have a crash just last week
2020-12-17T16:44:08 < Steffanx> Yeah
2020-12-17T16:44:26 < mjml> seems like they really got back up fast
2020-12-17T16:44:30 < englishman> a successful crash
2020-12-17T16:45:24 < Steffanx> That was just a test thingy mjml
2020-12-17T16:46:20 < mjml> hey
2020-12-17T16:46:28 < mjml> i see what they did there
2020-12-17T16:47:55 < mjml> well, i got my board to boot usb
2020-12-17T16:48:14 < mjml> bad news is i had to go back to cubeide :(
2020-12-17T16:58:30 < jadew> Steffanx, why do you lie?
2020-12-17T16:58:38 < jadew> it's t-45 and stuck
2020-12-17T17:02:36 < Steffanx> I didnt lie
2020-12-17T17:03:03 < Steffanx> Spacex change reality jadew
2020-12-17T17:03:08 < Steffanx> *changed
2020-12-17T17:03:50 < jadew> preposterous
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2020-12-17T17:15:05 < mjml> clearly someone needs to get out and give it a push
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2020-12-17T17:19:00 < mjml> well
2020-12-17T17:19:03 < mjml> four player chess anyone
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2020-12-17T18:49:35 < mjml> Well
2020-12-17T18:50:02 < mjml> I can't speak for Elon and his rocket but I got my usb device working
2020-12-17T18:52:07 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2020-12-17T18:54:36 < mjml> ty mawk wireshark helped a small bit but also I got reacquainted with the tool I have not used it in literally decades
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2020-12-17T19:54:51 < mawk> omg englishman is a fanboi
2020-12-17T19:55:17 < englishman> id be a fan of blue origin if they actually did anything
2020-12-17T19:56:13 < mawk> you just secretely love elon
2020-12-17T19:56:15 < mawk> do not lie
2020-12-17T19:57:14 < englishman> well i do like my tesla
2020-12-17T19:57:23 < englishman> and the cybertruck
2020-12-17T19:57:25 < englishman> and cool ass rockets
2020-12-17T19:57:33 < englishman> so i dont see a problem here
2020-12-17T19:58:50 < mawk> if all these things were done by bill wobbly gates you wouldn't like them
2020-12-17T19:59:00 < mawk> with his wobbly fat belly
2020-12-17T20:01:19 < englishman> bill gates only does boring shit like clean water and ebola vaccines
2020-12-17T20:09:14 < mawk> https://tricks.serveur.io/g1-public-private-keys-from-password.html
2020-12-17T20:14:09 < Steffanx> cryptocurrency.  Youre lost. Goodbye mawk
2020-12-17T20:14:18 < mawk> lol
2020-12-17T20:14:20 < mawk> it's not for me Steffanx 
2020-12-17T20:14:25 < mawk> it's a guy that lost his passphrase
2020-12-17T20:14:33 < mawk> he needed to bruteforce so I made a script for him
2020-12-17T20:14:37 < mawk> also it's not just any crypto
2020-12-17T20:14:41 < mawk> it's a communist crypto
2020-12-17T20:14:49 < mawk> you don't mine it, you get some for free everyday as universal basic income or something
2020-12-17T20:14:58 < mawk> and then you trade it for services on a hippie website
2020-12-17T20:14:59 < effractur> there is also a nice tool for GPG password bruteforcing if you still know parts of the phrase
2020-12-17T20:15:07 < mawk> yeah that was the case here
2020-12-17T20:15:12 < mawk> he remembered all parts of the phrase except a bit
2020-12-17T20:15:29 < mawk> so I used a wordlist, then compared the resulting pubkey to his known pubkey, and found the missing word
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2020-12-17T20:29:18 < Steffanx> Shouldnt the "government" know your  passphrase mawk?
2020-12-17T20:31:02 < machinehum>      PaulFertser ty
2020-12-17T20:31:43 < PaulFertser> machinehum: sarcasm?
2020-12-17T20:42:20 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2020-12-17T21:09:02 < machinehum> Oh is the TMC2100 shit?
2020-12-17T21:09:35 < machinehum> I was thanking for the recommendation, just looking at it now
2020-12-17T21:09:50 < machinehum> StealthChop™
2020-12-17T21:10:47 < srk> LessMachineHum™
2020-12-17T21:12:13 < machinehum> heh
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2020-12-17T21:45:54 < mawk> stupid release testing
2020-12-17T21:45:59 < mawk> I should skip everything
2020-12-17T21:46:15 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-17T21:46:35 < Steffanx> Dont let the trash collecting stop please, mawk
2020-12-17T21:46:49 < mawk> it's for bikeparks
2020-12-17T21:48:15 < mawk> I'm still at the office at 9 doing release testing
2020-12-17T21:48:17 < mawk> do you know why?
2020-12-17T21:48:20 < mawk> because I slept all day
2020-12-17T21:49:13 < Steffanx> Yes, i know this
2020-12-17T21:56:19 < BrainDamage> release early, release often
2020-12-17T21:56:42 < Steffanx> will you be on holiday as well next week mawk?
2020-12-17T21:56:46 < Steffanx> if so better release tomorrow
2020-12-17T22:16:10 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting...]
2020-12-17T22:16:24 < bitmask> can someone explain this to me? 
2020-12-17T22:17:20 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FPFVZTZ says 38W and 402CFM, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXYMJ94 says 67W and 390CFM
2020-12-17T22:20:20 < qyx> the first one has EC motor
2020-12-17T22:20:31 < qyx> the latter is probably a shaded pole one
2020-12-17T22:20:39 < qyx> with button speed control
2020-12-17T22:21:53 < qyx> whats cfm, cubic furlong per fortnight?
2020-12-17T22:23:33 < bitmask> heh cubic feet per minute
2020-12-17T22:24:35 < bitmask> I like the EC motor one, not sure if it would work well for a fume hood and airbrush booth
2020-12-17T22:25:13 < bitmask> if I add a few layers of filter and then a big carbon filter can
2020-12-17T22:25:22 < bitmask> though that would probably kill the suction
2020-12-17T22:25:30 < bitmask> one or the other
2020-12-17T22:26:29 < qyx> I bought a recup unit the other day with high efficiency motors
2020-12-17T22:26:34 < qyx> 2x 30 W
2020-12-17T22:26:42 < qyx> they are superloud
2020-12-17T22:27:09 < bitmask> recup?
2020-12-17T22:27:11 < qyx> so I ordered some common hi power 9 W fans with BLDC motors
2020-12-17T22:27:51 < qyx> they have about 3x more air flow at 1/3 of power
2020-12-17T22:28:02 < qyx> HVAC recuperation unit
2020-12-17T22:28:07 < bitmask> ahh
2020-12-17T22:28:39 < machinehum> bikeparks eh
2020-12-17T22:28:45 < machinehum> RFID scanner or?
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2020-12-17T22:37:10 < Steffanx> You know machinehum.. smart parking.. it gotta be smart
2020-12-17T22:38:07 < mawk> yes release tomorrow Steffanx 
2020-12-17T22:38:18 < mawk> BrainDamage: it's the same list of tests to do at each release
2020-12-17T22:38:22 < mawk> so "release often" certainly not
2020-12-17T22:38:28 < mawk> release as spaced out as possible
2020-12-17T22:38:35 < mawk> so I don't get to do this slave monkey job often
2020-12-17T22:38:56 < mawk> I took jlink at work Steffanx , will it solve my debugger problems?
2020-12-17T22:39:07 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-17T22:39:11 < mawk> it's bulky and ugly
2020-12-17T22:39:14 < mawk> stlink is aesthetic
2020-12-17T22:39:15 < englishman> stop releasing then
2020-12-17T22:39:30 < mawk> I'll ask my boss about it englishman 
2020-12-17T22:41:25 < BrainDamage> ａｅｓｔｅｔｈｉｃ
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2020-12-17T22:43:35 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2020-12-17T22:43:45 < mawk> aeste thicc ?
2020-12-17T22:44:06 < mawk> æsthetic
2020-12-17T22:44:55 < BrainDamage> also yes
2020-12-17T22:45:30 < mawk> αίσθητικóς
2020-12-17T22:48:36 < Steffanx> Get a mini edition mawk.
2020-12-17T22:48:57 < Steffanx> go edu
2020-12-17T22:49:19 < mawk> I'm poor
2020-12-17T22:49:34 < Steffanx> https://www.antratek.nl/j-link-edu-mini
2020-12-17T22:49:37 < mawk> what's stlink status code 0x5 PaulFertser ? have you seen it before? is it documented?
2020-12-17T22:49:45 < mawk> google says nothing
2020-12-17T22:50:06 < mawk> it's what happens ~5 seconds after plugging in the stlink and attaching to the target, it gives status code 0x5 and openocd doesn't understand
2020-12-17T22:50:32 < karlp> mawk: have you updated fw on the stlink?
2020-12-17T22:50:37 < karlp> v2 or v3?
2020-12-17T22:50:39 < Steffanx> Fake stlink.
2020-12-17T22:50:47 < mawk> yes karlp 
2020-12-17T22:50:49 < mawk> v2
2020-12-17T22:50:56 < mawk> real stlink from st
2020-12-17T22:51:06 < mawk> I know v3 can't debug non-st
2020-12-17T22:51:21 < mawk> but this stlink was working fine, then it started this 0x5 bs all of a sudden, maybe it's just broken
2020-12-17T22:52:16 < Steffanx> real stlink.. damn
2020-12-17T22:52:35 < mawk> yes sir
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2020-12-17T22:53:02 < mawk> I hope this jlink thing can do vcp, given the price
2020-12-17T22:58:10 < Steffanx> thats why everyone should have a ftdi cable handy
2020-12-17T22:59:48 < BrainDamage> I bought a set of serial to usb converters off amazon for 10 bucks
2020-12-17T23:02:49 < mawk> ah it has vcp
2020-12-17T23:02:55 < mawk> less cables is better, Steffanx 
2020-12-17T23:04:50 < BrainDamage> it has 3 different chipsets
2020-12-17T23:05:52 < karlp> Ive seen those "mixpacks" 
2020-12-17T23:05:57 < karlp> what's the motivation?
2020-12-17T23:06:04 < BrainDamage> so I get to pick the least buggy
2020-12-17T23:06:11 < mawk> lol
2020-12-17T23:06:20 < karlp> you haven't worked that out ove the yars and just always buy that sort now?
2020-12-17T23:06:27 < mawk> so you get at least one that isn't a counterfeit?
2020-12-17T23:06:35 < mawk> that's it I enabled VCP on this probe, perfect
2020-12-17T23:06:45 < mawk> crw-rw-rw- 1 root dialout 166, 0 déc.  17 22:05 /dev/ttyACM0
2020-12-17T23:07:03 < BrainDamage> it's pretty funny that the seller implicitly acknowledges it
2020-12-17T23:07:04 < BrainDamage> jesus, my neighbour is seriously jamming my wifi
2020-12-17T23:07:37 < mawk> when playing with 2.4GHz radios in a café I jammed everyone's wifi for a few moments apparently
2020-12-17T23:07:52 < Steffanx> They finally realized youve been using theirs for the past 10 years BrainDamage?
2020-12-17T23:07:53 < mawk> there was some debug mode to emit unmodulated full power or something
2020-12-17T23:09:16 < BrainDamage> no, those are other neighbours
2020-12-17T23:09:29 < karlp> BrainDamage: I mena, I can see these multi packs for people who need to test compat stuff, but for anyeone else, they just make no sense.
2020-12-17T23:10:01 < karlp> mawk: does cw actaully block wifi?
2020-12-17T23:11:09 < BrainDamage> CW doesn't
2020-12-17T23:11:49 < BrainDamage> but sending re-key packets will force all clients to flush their ephemereal keys
2020-12-17T23:12:50 < BrainDamage> so an amplification attack creating a DDoS from the own clients
2020-12-17T23:12:50 < BrainDamage> best part: the packets are unauthenticated plain text
2020-12-17T23:12:51 < karlp> yep, I know deauth shit
2020-12-17T23:13:02 < karlp> but didn't really expect just hard cw to really do much dmanage
2020-12-17T23:14:21 < mawk> no idea karlp 
2020-12-17T23:14:26 < mawk> I just heard everyone complaining at the same time
2020-12-17T23:15:50 < BrainDamage> CW is exactly what wifi is resistant against
2020-12-17T23:16:10 < BrainDamage> it's broadband interference that it's weak on
2020-12-17T23:16:27 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/a/oEmAQxC
2020-12-17T23:16:37 < BrainDamage> my neighbour, literally 100 times louder than everyone else
2020-12-17T23:16:53 < BrainDamage> despite being further away than my router
2020-12-17T23:17:15 < Steffanx> Someone found some extra special settings in his accesspoint/router?
2020-12-17T23:18:04 < mawk> maybe your neighbor is hiding in your closet with his AP BrainDamage 
2020-12-17T23:18:11 < mawk> with an axe ready to chop you up
2020-12-17T23:18:58 < Steffanx> I think its mawk. 
2020-12-17T23:19:09 < mawk> :(
2020-12-17T23:21:55 < mawk> https://www.segger.com/purchase/pricing/emusb-device/ what
2020-12-17T23:22:20 < karlp> you want to play segger games, you pay segger prices..
2020-12-17T23:27:34 < Steffanx> How many hours can you work for 2k to get the ST stuff running mawk? 
2020-12-17T23:27:47 < Steffanx> You need the pro mindset
2020-12-17T23:28:10 < karlp> assuming the paid one actually works instantly....
2020-12-17T23:28:24 < karlp> and not just entitles you to support
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2020-12-17T23:37:37 < mawk> vcp thing works, perfect
2020-12-17T23:37:39 < mawk> one less cable around
2020-12-17T23:39:35 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'll check 0x5 code soon
2020-12-17T23:40:27 < PaulFertser> machinehum: it's just that's the most popular "silent"/smart stepper driver out there, used in 3d printers etc. So I thought you have already considered it.
2020-12-17T23:47:58 < machinehum> nop
2020-12-17T23:58:03 < mawk> I hope I can find a new stlink soon and abandon this ugliness Steffanx 
2020-12-17T23:58:20 < PaulFertser> mawk: JTAG_NO_DEVICE_CONNECTED
2020-12-17T23:58:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: that's 0x05 status code
2020-12-17T23:59:18 < Steffanx> Dont tell your Ukrainian gf just yet mawk
2020-12-17T23:59:22 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-12-17T23:59:34 < mawk> hmm I see PaulFertser 
2020-12-17T23:59:53 < mawk> I guess the stlink is just broken
--- Day changed Fri Dec 18 2020
2020-12-18T00:00:06 < mawk> no idea how it can spontaneously break though
2020-12-18T00:00:18 < PaulFertser> Is it impossible that the target device reboots or disables SWD or something like that?
2020-12-18T00:00:19 < mawk> and why it does it systematically 5 seconds after start
2020-12-18T00:00:34 < PaulFertser> You can try using this stlink against an stm32.
2020-12-18T00:00:34 < mawk> well with the exact same code it works with jlink, and with stlink v2.1
2020-12-18T00:00:57 < PaulFertser> Interesting. Does adapter speed not affect it?
2020-12-18T00:01:01 < mawk> also nrf cannot disable swd
2020-12-18T00:01:04 < mawk> yeah it doesn't affect it
2020-12-18T00:01:14 < mawk> ah I left the faulty thing at my office, I will try again when I get back there
2020-12-18T00:02:09 < mawk> I upgraded firmware and it did the same
2020-12-18T00:02:24 < mawk> you have special insider information about stlink? I couldn't find reference about this 0x5 thing
2020-12-18T00:02:51 < mawk> ah I found on some mailing list
2020-12-18T00:02:54 < mawk> insider information indeed
2020-12-18T00:03:00 < mawk> so ST was cooperating with openocd at some point?
2020-12-18T00:03:06 < mawk> but now with v3 they don't want to hear abou tit
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2020-12-18T00:04:51 < mawk> by the way the nrf has a special way to do hardware reset, you do it by pulling a gpio
2020-12-18T00:04:56 < mawk> is it worth it implementing it in openocd?
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2020-12-18T00:05:24 < mawk> nrf tooling can already do it
2020-12-18T00:09:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: there's no insider information, ST used their own fork of OpenOCD but now is contributing directly, with one of their developers volunteering to do plenty of unrelated work. 
2020-12-18T00:10:01 < mawk> ah I see
2020-12-18T00:10:10 < mawk> well inthe ML it said "Just had a scan through some docs that ST sent us ages ago and I have the following error codes listed."
2020-12-18T00:10:21 < mawk> is that guy saying why they don't want v3 to be useful?
2020-12-18T00:10:23 < PaulFertser> mawk: that 0x05 is yes, some shared insider information.
2020-12-18T00:11:00 < PaulFertser> mawk: he doesn't know himself, the firmware team says something like "we do not know why it doesn't work with the other targets but there's no requirement it should be working anyway".
2020-12-18T00:11:07 < PaulFertser> Probably they're lying.
2020-12-18T00:11:09 < mawk> lol
2020-12-18T00:11:14 < PaulFertser> But it's impossible to tell.
2020-12-18T00:11:22 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-18T00:11:36 < PaulFertser> There's a way to patch stlinkv3 firmware but I'm a bad reverser plus I do not have v3 here for testing anyway.
2020-12-18T00:11:49 < mawk> ah, so the patch is already availble?
2020-12-18T00:12:06 < PaulFertser> The patch to do what?
2020-12-18T00:12:19 < mawk> you said there's a way to patch the firmware
2020-12-18T00:12:23 < mawk> someone did the work already?
2020-12-18T00:12:50 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes, in the sense that the modified firmware can be used. But nobody knows yet how exactly it should be modified.
2020-12-18T00:13:03 < mawk> ah I see
2020-12-18T00:13:24 < Steffanx> I see a job for mawk during his xmad holidays
2020-12-18T00:13:30 < mawk> lol
2020-12-18T00:13:33 < mawk> v3 is too expensive
2020-12-18T00:13:36 < mawk> send me one and I'll try
2020-12-18T00:13:49 < Steffanx> V3 expensive?
2020-12-18T00:13:53 < mawk> yes
2020-12-18T00:13:58 < mawk> remember that I'm poor
2020-12-18T00:14:37 < qyx> wat
2020-12-18T00:14:41 < Steffanx> Mini is like 10 euro bucks
2020-12-18T00:14:45 < qyx> I bougjt it for 13e
2020-12-18T00:15:16 < Steffanx> I might have one for you mawk.
2020-12-18T00:15:40 < Steffanx> You can trade it for your french passport
2020-12-18T00:16:33 < PaulFertser> I found one place in the code where it's checking for ST-specific flash-related registers to detemine what stm32 family the target belongs to. But patching that out doesn't affect the outcome, guess it's mean only for the integrated flasher and the culprit is really something else. I had some SWD LA dumps for comparison but I didn't dig them properly yet.
2020-12-18T00:16:52 < qyx> I have 4 huge french LiSOCl2 batteries, those used onnthe philae lander
2020-12-18T00:17:00 < qyx> 61 Wh each
2020-12-18T00:17:05 < qyx> what mto do with them?
2020-12-18T00:18:03 < qyx> they say do not throw in the fire
2020-12-18T00:18:21 < BrainDamage> jpa-: https://nitter.net/UNESCO/status/1339561335789654024
2020-12-18T00:18:47 < mawk> I don't want mini Steffanx 
2020-12-18T00:18:50 < mawk> I'm a real man
2020-12-18T00:19:29 < Steffanx> Your loss mawk
2020-12-18T00:19:41 < BrainDamage> qyx: how did you manage to reach for the comet and retrieve the batteries?
2020-12-18T00:19:58 < Steffanx> Lol BrainDamage 
2020-12-18T00:20:00 < mawk> ah nice PaulFertser 
2020-12-18T00:20:08 < mawk> is it because it's french that you want to throw it in the fire qyx ?
2020-12-18T00:20:57 < qyx> with a secret china cubesat
2020-12-18T00:21:13 < mawk> with a harpoon
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2020-12-18T00:25:55 < karlp> BrainDamage: heh, I can guess from that nitter url and "jpa" exactly what the subject is :)
2020-12-18T00:28:11 < qyx> lol
2020-12-18T00:29:08 < Steffanx> Too bad kakimir is more into saunaing 
2020-12-18T00:29:16 < Steffanx> But he left us. 
2020-12-18T00:30:37 < mawk> some github comment says that latest fw versions of stlinkv3 enable rdp level 2 PaulFertser 
2020-12-18T00:40:39 < karlp> is that the one that claims you can't even reflash it with your  own fw?
2020-12-18T00:41:22 < karlp> hrm, taskset my code to another cpu, taskset says it's running there, but interrupts all still processed on cpu0.
2020-12-18T00:41:32 < mawk> no, it's in this thread: https://github.com/RadioOperator/CMSIS-DAP_for_STLINK-V3MINI/issues/1
2020-12-18T00:41:47 < mawk> he just says there is rdp level 2 so you can't use swd on stlink v3 if you upgraded to the new firmware
2020-12-18T00:41:53 < mawk> but you can still change the firmware
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2020-12-18T01:38:34 < karlp> dsp people, why does "low" pass give me those green squigglies, not just a nice smooth line following the trend? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fdqXu.png
2020-12-18T01:39:12 < karlp> what I _realllly_ want to do is "flatten" it, to measure the size of the noise, so plan was low pass to get the trend line, then subtract them, to get just the noise?
2020-12-18T01:39:18 < karlp> that's ... somewhat sane right?
2020-12-18T01:40:52 < karlp> nvm, turns out it was upset about some glitchy data off the screen at the beginning.
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2020-12-18T01:41:01 < karlp> chopped that off the sampleset and it behaves momre as expected...
2020-12-18T01:41:36 < Steffanx> Youre welcome 
2020-12-18T01:42:11 < fenugrec> seemed to be resonating at a certain freq... you sure you're really lowpassing ?
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2020-12-18T01:42:36 < fenugrec> regardless of "glitchy data off screen"
2020-12-18T01:43:38 < karlp> yeah, it was a the 4th order echo of some massive spikes at the beginning.
2020-12-18T01:43:52 < karlp> I literally truncated the first 20 lines of shitty data from the file and it looks flawless again
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2020-12-18T01:44:20 < karlp> this thing isn't windowing the way I might like, so it has a lead in
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2020-12-18T01:45:03 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MmRfv.png yoyu can see the little tine curve up at the beginning, and down at the end.
2020-12-18T01:45:03 < BrainDamage> filters also hhave an internal state
2020-12-18T01:45:22 < karlp> this is fine to work with though, before was ... problematic :)
2020-12-18T01:45:32 < BrainDamage> if you don't initialize themm, when you feed your signal which has a dc bias, the filteer will see a step
2020-12-18T01:45:55 < karlp> yeah, that's what I see now, but it's the expected sort of thing
2020-12-18T01:46:34 < fenugrec> going off a limb here ... can't you highpass and keep the noise ? instead of LP + subtract
2020-12-18T01:53:23 < BrainDamage> karlp: a small trick, if you want an even smoother curve, and you have cpu to waste, spline interpolate it
2020-12-18T01:53:30 < BrainDamage> it'll come out perfect
2020-12-18T01:54:04 < karlp> both good tricks.
2020-12-18T01:54:40 < karlp> fenugrec: yes, I suppose I could if i just make the highpass right, just was already tryign to get the trend.
2020-12-18T01:54:49 < karlp> what I _really_ should do is change the source to not wander...
2020-12-18T01:54:54 < karlp> but that requires goign to the office,
2020-12-18T01:55:26 < karlp> idea was to see if I coul dnumerically determine anything useful at home.
2020-12-18T01:56:29 < karlp> trying to evalute linux irq jitter, which kinda feels like it might be a cesspit of no-one knows, and "you'r eholding it wrong"
2020-12-18T01:57:04 < fenugrec> some rt kernel build I hope ? regular kernel => abandon hope if you're aiming below ~10ms
2020-12-18T02:00:51 < karlp> I can do rt, I can do anything, just want to get a baseline
2020-12-18T02:01:24 < karlp> currently jitter apepars to be significantly better than 10ms
2020-12-18T02:01:31 < karlp> I don't really care about latency much.
2020-12-18T02:02:01 < karlp> if it's good enough, I can eliminate stm32 ;)
2020-12-18T02:02:28 < fenugrec> how much of a disaster if you have surprise spikes 100ms now and then for no rational explanation
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2020-12-18T02:02:45 < karlp> but I want to see "normal" linux, and have a measurement scheme before I play with other things.
2020-12-18T02:03:08 < karlp> no issue really, just discard readings that are not "about the window we expect"
2020-12-18T02:03:20 < karlp> already have to do that for other things anyway
2020-12-18T02:03:41 < karlp> but right now I get the period I want with like +- 50usec jitter
2020-12-18T02:04:28 < karlp> I'd _like_ to get quite a bit better than that really, but it might be workable with filtering, given that I have "infinite" cpu now...
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2020-12-18T02:06:45 < fenugrec> try a linuxcnc bootable usb. It has a latency + jitter test program you can let run for hours. I've set up linuxcnc on 2-3 computers and it can be very fiddly about hardware. Same setup, different HDD : one has 30ms jitter spikes where the other one is < 1ms... and this is all with an RT kernel, with all chances on your side
2020-12-18T02:07:46 < fenugrec> or, test runs for X hours, you look at it wrong or mouseover something you shouldn't : boom, jitter explodes
2020-12-18T02:08:57 < Steffanx> A good reason to not use lunixcnc
2020-12-18T02:09:42 < fenugrec> Steffanx, not a whole lot of alternatives, but I'm open to suggestions ? mach3 doesn't count
2020-12-18T02:10:31 < Steffanx> Free.. probably close to none
2020-12-18T02:10:33 < fenugrec> sure, I could try and frankenstein some fanuc 0T or 'big metal' controller, but usually they want proper servos and not poor man steppers
2020-12-18T02:12:06 < Steffanx> I used the acorn cnc stuff for mine. But not even close to "free"
2020-12-18T02:13:04 < fenugrec> mill / router / lathe ?
2020-12-18T02:14:07 < Steffanx> Router
2020-12-18T02:15:58 < fenugrec> 300 for the motion control board ? that's not half bad
2020-12-18T02:16:28 < Steffanx> And then you need some sw
2020-12-18T02:16:59 < fenugrec> "centroid cnc12 free software download" ?
2020-12-18T02:17:10 < Steffanx> Yeah but its a bit limited
2020-12-18T02:18:12 < Steffanx> "Limited to 50Kb G-code file size"
2020-12-18T02:19:25 < fenugrec> ah yea for routing that could be a problem. plain XZ lathe here with no more toolchanger, never did anything close to 50k g-code
2020-12-18T02:19:55 < mjml> is centroid any good
2020-12-18T02:22:04 < Steffanx> Isnt this other none-free but cheapish controller getting more popular. I forgot its name
2020-12-18T02:22:40 < Steffanx> UCCNC?
2020-12-18T02:22:56 < fenugrec> probably more choice now than when I setup this machine... not in a hurry to redo that
2020-12-18T02:25:37  * karlp 's curious where you could even get dozens of ms jitter from.
2020-12-18T02:26:22 < karlp> this is a kernel irq, with the kernel writing a timestamp and userspace just eventually reads it out later.
2020-12-18T02:26:47 < karlp> I only care about the jitter in the kernel timestamping, couldn't care less about how long it takes to notify userspace
2020-12-18T02:34:47 < karlp> fenugrec: kinda looks like linuxcnc is x86 only?
2020-12-18T02:36:56 < karlp> aight, late. bed time
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2020-12-18T02:43:13 < upgrdman> anyone know if rtc xtal's are sensitive to trace length? 32.768kHz ... hacked into a circuit, so flying wires maybe 50mm long. it works fine, but stopped working overnight. now the clock runs really slow, until i touch the xtal or wires, then it runs correctly. solder joint look fine, so i suspect stray capacitcance is playing a part in that.
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2020-12-18T02:47:57 < fenugrec> karlp, x86, probably yeah. although the rt-kernel probably compiles on other stuff. I'm not sure what the jitter test program measures exactly
2020-12-18T02:49:53 < mjml> upgrdman: what gauge wire and is it shielded
2020-12-18T02:50:29 < upgrdman> mjml, just kynar wire. maybe 28awg. not shielded.
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2020-12-18T03:15:46 < mjml> hmm mysterious
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2020-12-18T03:20:51 < upgrdman> oh well, will try shorter wires. i hope this is just the parasitic inductance of the flying wires being mitigated by the capacitance of a human body touching the wires.
2020-12-18T03:21:17 < upgrdman> weird that it worked fine yesterday though. maybe it's related to temperature. its ~10C colder now
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2020-12-18T07:41:18 < jpa-> karlp: hmm, Kst looks nice
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2020-12-18T08:28:20 < jadew> qyx, tme order came on time
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2020-12-18T08:48:54 < qyx> jadew: same here
2020-12-18T08:49:14 < qyx> hey were only trying to frighten me
2020-12-18T09:04:21 < mjml> are there any usb gurus in here?
2020-12-18T09:05:19 < mjml> wondering if there is any way on the device side to force a host to re-initialize a device (i.e. assign device address etc) without just unplugging it and plugging it back in
2020-12-18T09:07:26 < mjml> because it doesn't seem to happen if i do a normal JTAG style reset or by grounding nRST
2020-12-18T09:16:39 < qyx> not a guru but deasserting 1k5 on D+ may help?
2020-12-18T09:19:39 < mjml> i was thinking it would be either that or dropping vdd for a short while
2020-12-18T09:21:44 < mjml> i guess you can't really drop vdd for the host
2020-12-18T09:23:28 < mjml> and there's already a 1k5 pullup on D+
2020-12-18T09:25:24 < mjml> but these are akin to a hard reset .. i was looking for something like a control packet that would force reinitialization
2020-12-18T09:29:28 < zyp> what qyx said
2020-12-18T09:29:45 < zyp> the 1k5 pullup is what signals device presence to the host
2020-12-18T09:30:07 < zyp> if you turn it off for a moment, host will see it as a detach/reattach
2020-12-18T09:30:17 < zyp> that's the correct way to force reenumeration
2020-12-18T09:30:40 < mjml> ok
2020-12-18T09:31:06 < mjml> could i just wire a gpio pin to it or would that sink too much current
2020-12-18T09:31:12 < zyp> yes
2020-12-18T09:31:16 < zyp> that's what I usually do
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2020-12-18T09:31:33 < mjml> yes i could do it and yes it would sink too much current? :)
2020-12-18T09:31:35 < zyp> when you reset the chip, gpio goes floating and host sees detach
2020-12-18T09:31:39 < zyp> yes you could do it
2020-12-18T09:31:44 < mjml> ok
2020-12-18T09:31:55 < zyp> which chip is this?
2020-12-18T09:32:01 < mjml> 407
2020-12-18T09:32:07 < zyp> 407 doesn't need it
2020-12-18T09:32:12 < mjml> so D+ is on PA12, can I just reconfigure the pin?
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2020-12-18T09:32:37 < zyp> 407 has the pullup built into the phy
2020-12-18T09:33:05 < mjml> well my board has an external 1k5 too
2020-12-18T09:33:18 < zyp> then remove the external one and use the internal :)
2020-12-18T09:33:29 < mjml> oh wait -- you mean there's a register for it
2020-12-18T09:33:34 < mjml> for the internal pullup
2020-12-18T09:33:38 < zyp> yes
2020-12-18T09:33:42 < mjml> ok
2020-12-18T09:34:48 < mjml> any idea how much elapsed time the host needs to figure it out
2020-12-18T09:36:03 < mjml> i can probably just make a gdb script to do it
2020-12-18T09:36:07 < zyp> DCTL.SDIS is the bit controlling the internal pullup
2020-12-18T09:36:17 < zyp> and you don't need to do this from gdb
2020-12-18T09:36:25 < zyp> it gets disabled automatically when you reset the chip :)
2020-12-18T09:36:44 < zyp> your current problem is that the external one doesn't
2020-12-18T09:36:47 < mjml> i don't know about that
2020-12-18T09:36:56 < zyp> I do, I can assure you it does
2020-12-18T09:36:59 < mjml> only one of them should need to be deasserted
2020-12-18T09:37:05 < zyp> what?
2020-12-18T09:38:00 < mjml> its 3v3 - 1k5R - PA12 on the board
2020-12-18T09:38:14 < mjml> actually there's an extra 22R in there but who is counting
2020-12-18T09:38:44 < mjml> so if you change PA12 to GPIO and clear it, shouldn't that suffice
2020-12-18T09:38:51 < mjml> or if you use the register
2020-12-18T09:39:24 < mjml> the external pullup shouldn't interfere with either of those strategies
2020-12-18T09:40:33 < mjml> am i making sense? i tend to babble when it comes to this stuff
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2020-12-18T09:44:03 < zyp> no, you're not
2020-12-18T09:44:17 < zyp> the external 1k5 just shows the designer don't know what they are doing
2020-12-18T09:44:41 < zyp> it's not supposed to be there and it additionally makes your device out of spec since it effectively gets a .75k pullup instead
2020-12-18T09:45:08 < zyp> just remove it and everything will work as they are supposed to
2020-12-18T09:53:36 < mjml> my point is that if D+ is grounded by the OTG_FS, the external pullup shouldn't matter
2020-12-18T09:55:28 < mjml> but i don't know this is all still very new to me
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2020-12-18T11:18:37 < Steffanx> mehh... how to debug sudden reboots of my truenas server/NAS -_- 
2020-12-18T11:18:54 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20201218_111716.jpg   ok, now it's ready for manufacturing!
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2020-12-18T11:29:34 < qyx> jpa- trying to pass emc?
2020-12-18T11:31:07 < jpa-> hoping to pass EMC, but in reality just trying to keep the power supply section from messing up with analog section
2020-12-18T11:31:47 < jpa-> i think i'll try making a sine wave SMPS with opamp next; i only need 100mW so efficiency is not a huge concern
2020-12-18T11:32:26 < qyx> something like my strain bridge amp&adc with a 2 MHz switcher nearby?
2020-12-18T11:33:09 < jpa-> sounds similar, except 1Mohm input impedance and 120MHz switcher
2020-12-18T11:34:04 < qyx> sounds like an airband transmitter
2020-12-18T11:34:09 < jpa-> funnily enough when I tried a 60kHz switcher, it was even worse; there is strange lack of isolated dc-dc modules with frequency ~1MHz
2020-12-18T11:35:02 < qyx> oh 120 kHz?
2020-12-18T11:35:09 < jpa-> no, 120MHz
2020-12-18T11:35:15 < qyx> wat
2020-12-18T11:35:25 < jpa-> because that exists, ADUM5028
2020-12-18T11:35:54 < qyx> those isolation things with isolated psu inside?
2020-12-18T11:36:05 < jpa-> yeah
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2020-12-18T12:19:25 < Steffanx> Time to wake up mawk, or you'll be releasing shitty code at 9pm again.
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2020-12-18T12:30:25 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, kst is nice. it's... weird and precious, but I use it a lot for "have data, will plot"
2020-12-18T12:31:54 < jpa-> i mostly use gnuplot
2020-12-18T12:33:30 < karlp> yeah, kst is wayyyy nicer for "ok, now make me new graphs, and graph all o fthem, and give me a ui for fixing it all instead of gnuplot commands"
2020-12-18T12:33:43 < karlp> and it does nice live graphing of a file that's being updated too
2020-12-18T12:33:45 < mawk> I'm awak Steffanx 
2020-12-18T12:33:51 < mawk> 100% awak
2020-12-18T12:34:01 < karlp> but I didn't try gnuplot for very long before i hated it and looked for something else
2020-12-18T12:34:16 < karlp> I've never tried upgrdman's telemetry viewer though, it's meant to be awesome :)
2020-12-18T12:35:48 < karlp> heh, jlcpcb christmas ornaments
2020-12-18T12:36:13 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rVncR.png
2020-12-18T12:36:34 < Steffanx> jlpcb and their "gifts".
2020-12-18T12:36:43 < Steffanx> i always trash it
2020-12-18T12:38:08 < Steffanx> Sorry, i should be more happy/optimistic: YAY. 
2020-12-18T12:38:23 < mawk> send it to me Steffanx 
2020-12-18T12:38:34 < Steffanx> You dont what those shitty things
2020-12-18T12:41:15 < Steffanx> what about  this wonderful piece of equipment mawk
2020-12-18T12:41:19 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/yu74DRJ
2020-12-18T12:42:34 < mawk> what is this
2020-12-18T12:42:48 < mawk> it's the stlink to solder on your board?
2020-12-18T12:43:00 < Steffanx> its the stlink v3 mini
2020-12-18T12:43:15 < mawk> ugly
2020-12-18T12:43:23 < Steffanx> thats irrelevant.
2020-12-18T12:43:52 < mawk> does it do the same thing as the not mini?
2020-12-18T12:43:56 < karlp> nice license: https://github.com/analogdevicesinc/libtinyiiod/blob/master/LICENSE_ADIBSD
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2020-12-18T12:47:49 < mawk> lol what
2020-12-18T12:48:07 < mawk> it looks like a hybrid monster between "© analog devices, all rights reserved" and a bsd license
2020-12-18T12:50:50 < Steffanx> So you just find the cheapest analol devices component, connect that to your uc and your fine.
2020-12-18T12:50:53 < Steffanx> *youre
2020-12-18T12:55:29 < zyp> 08:53:37 < mjml> my point is that if D+ is grounded by the OTG_FS, the external pullup shouldn't matter
2020-12-18T12:55:37 < mjml> yo
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2020-12-18T12:55:51 < zyp> it's not supposed to be grounded, it's supposed to float to signal a detach
2020-12-18T12:56:13 < mjml> ok i thought deasserted meant low
2020-12-18T12:57:12 < zyp> no, the pulls is to define idle state
2020-12-18T12:57:31 < mjml> i see
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2020-12-18T12:57:52 < zyp> upstream ports have two weak pulldowns, FS devices have a stronger pullup on D+ and LS devices have it on D-
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2020-12-18T12:58:19 < zyp> so during idle, both low means no device attached, D+ high means FS attached and D- high means LS attached
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2020-12-18T12:59:15 < zyp> so if you wanna signal a detach, you take away the pullup and the host will detect it next time the bus goes idle
2020-12-18T12:59:56 < zyp> if you drive D+ low actively, you risk driving against the upstream port driving high when it's sending data
2020-12-18T13:00:17 < mjml> ok
2020-12-18T13:00:32 < zyp> in practice it generally still works, but it's not correct according to spec :p
2020-12-18T13:01:18 < mjml> also it sounds hazardous with a cheap usb hub
2020-12-18T13:01:33 < zyp> and the thing is, since your usb core contains an OTG capable PHY, it already includes both the pulldowns and the pullups required to act as either upstream or downstream
2020-12-18T13:01:52 < zyp> so the external 1k5 is unnecessary (and also wrong unless the internal one is disabled)
2020-12-18T13:03:03 < zyp> it is required for some of the other stm32 variants with a different usb core, so I assume it got copied from a stm32f1 design or something
2020-12-18T13:03:22 < zyp> f1 requires external 1k5, f4 doesn't
2020-12-18T13:04:50 < mjml> https://i.imgur.com/pNmKfnA.png
2020-12-18T13:05:25 < mjml> well that's good to know since i have some f1's and f0's here too
2020-12-18T13:05:37 < zyp> f0 also doesn't need it
2020-12-18T13:06:19 < zyp> IIRC f1, f3 and l1 does need it, others don't
2020-12-18T13:06:24 < zyp> might be forgetting some
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2020-12-18T13:08:35 < mjml> G4
2020-12-18T13:09:07 < zyp> haven't used G4, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't :)
2020-12-18T13:09:15 < mjml> just testing
2020-12-18T13:09:40 < zyp> well, the thing is, there are three usb cores found in stm32
2020-12-18T13:09:57 < zyp> dwc_otg, st_usbfs_v1 and st_usbfs_v2 (going by libopencm3 naming)
2020-12-18T13:10:17 < zyp> both dwc_otg and st_usbfs_v2 includes the D+ pullup
2020-12-18T13:10:34 < zyp> st_usbfs_v1 is as far as I remember only found in f1, f3 and l1
2020-12-18T13:10:43 < mjml> i am glad you were in this chat room when i chose to learn about stm32 usb
2020-12-18T13:11:30 < zyp> usb is probably what I've done most of with stm32 :p
2020-12-18T13:24:04 < karlp> re usb pullups, not required on L1 either, it has a special periph bitin syscfg for controlling a built in one.
2020-12-18T13:24:28 < karlp> (in early silicon it wasn't in spec wrt 1.5k precise resistance, mostly still worked, but all current silicon it's fine)
2020-12-18T13:24:55 < karlp> f3 has both v1 and v2, depending on part number :|
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2020-12-18T13:34:13 < mawk> I glued the jlink on top of a usb hub with a 2m wire, then put everything in a closet
2020-12-18T13:34:19 < mawk> because $woman says it's too ugly
2020-12-18T13:34:22 < mawk> it's high time I kick her out
2020-12-18T13:34:47 < mawk> then I will decorate the apartment with spare parts
2020-12-18T13:38:18 < karlp> zyp: oh noes: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/93ffH.png
2020-12-18T13:40:21 < mawk> lol
2020-12-18T13:41:12 < mawk> 09ca6340 isn't part of a known malware payload
2020-12-18T13:41:17 < mawk> or google doesn't want to tell me
2020-12-18T13:45:02 < zyp> karlp, well, yeah, when you run a service that allows arbitrary uploads, you get people uploading malware sometimes
2020-12-18T13:45:34 < mawk> then imagine what people did with my image uploader zyp lol
2020-12-18T13:45:40 < mawk> and imagine why I got the police calling me
2020-12-18T13:46:48 < zyp> haven't had any complaints about child porn yet, just malware
2020-12-18T13:47:32 < mawk> it was drugs and childporn for me
2020-12-18T13:47:53 < mawk> but I didn't kept any log so police was angry
2020-12-18T13:51:26 < karlp> zyp: I'd hoped it was small enough and private enough to fly under radars, it's why I'd been using it more and more :)
2020-12-18T13:53:48 < zyp> can't have nice things, you know
2020-12-18T13:54:20 < mawk> I took down the image host in the end
2020-12-18T13:54:31 < mawk> but the police kept coming, until they raided my server, dumped the hdd
2020-12-18T13:54:42 < mawk> then they found nothing since it's all encrypted anyway, and left me alone
2020-12-18T14:05:46 < mawk> I opened the jlink to see what incredible technology would warrant the price
2020-12-18T14:06:09 < mawk> and it's a single sided pcb with a LPC4322JBD144 and a few other small components
2020-12-18T14:06:16 < mawk> I guess 100% of the money is in the IP
2020-12-18T14:11:43 < zyp> yeah, imagine why they are getting cloned :)
2020-12-18T14:11:58 < mawk> there's a nice tagconnect port on it, an invitation for me to try to clone it
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2020-12-18T14:25:46 < hipr_c> Good morning. Does anyone know of any helpful resources to port the bsp layer for openstlinux into agl?
2020-12-18T14:27:09 < karlp> agl?
2020-12-18T14:28:03 < zyp> angstrom?
2020-12-18T14:28:51 < hipr_c> Sorry. AGL: Automotive Grade Linux
2020-12-18T14:31:37 < zyp> first I hear of it, but I guess the main thing to get right is the device tree and maybe bootloader
2020-12-18T14:32:04 < zyp> and then any kernel drivers you need that's not in mainline, if any
2020-12-18T14:33:17 < hipr_c> I think I might have that all wrapped up... But my bitbake fails with circular dependency issues. Been trying to resolve them... and causing more issues.
2020-12-18T14:33:52 < hipr_c> so, I haven't been able to verify if I'm getting to the linux build part right, yet.
2020-12-18T14:35:43 < zyp> does agl also build with bitbake? is it built on top of openembedded?
2020-12-18T14:41:42 < hipr_c> Yes to bitbake. 1 sec on openembedded, verifying.
2020-12-18T14:42:29 < hipr_c> It does use meta-oe
2020-12-18T14:43:49 < zyp> and I guess so does openstlinux, so I guess it shouldn't be too hard to get it to work together
2020-12-18T14:44:08 < zyp> correct me if I'm wrong
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2020-12-18T15:28:29 < mawk> Steffanx: jlink edu mini doesn't have VCP
2020-12-18T15:28:31 < mawk> I cannot buy it
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2020-12-18T15:42:32 < zyp> dongs, what's the absolutely cheapest stm32 available nowadays?
2020-12-18T15:44:47 < jpa-> my bets: STM32F103, STM32L011, STM32G031 :)
2020-12-18T15:45:15 < jpa-> though stm32f103 market is so polluted with clones that who knows what the real deal costs
2020-12-18T15:45:23 < zyp> I'm guessing stm32f030f4p6 if it's not f1 simply due to numbers
2020-12-18T15:46:06 < zyp> or maybe not, looks like it's not stocked anywhere
2020-12-18T15:48:53 < BrainDamage> f103 means also dealing with all the f1 series quirks
2020-12-18T15:48:53 < karlp> yeah, those small f0s all seem to be "available on demand" sort of products
2020-12-18T15:49:07 < zyp> oh, g030j6 looks cool
2020-12-18T15:49:30 < zyp> I need like three pins anyway
2020-12-18T15:51:00 < jpa-> does somebody have experience with ferrite rubber sheets like https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/laird-signal-integrity-products/MHLL12060-200/5230923 ? are they more or less effective against inductively coupled noise than a steel cage is?
2020-12-18T15:56:39 < zyp> «For the device in SO8N package, the PA0, PA1, and PA2 GPIOs are bonded with NRST on the pin 4. In order not to interfere with device functions, they must not be set in alternate function or in output but remain at all times in input configuration.»
2020-12-18T15:56:50 < zyp> what the fuck is the point of bonding them together then
2020-12-18T15:57:42 < jpa-> you can poll them to see if the device is reset yet ;)
2020-12-18T15:58:17 < zyp> doesn't seem to be a way to turn off NRST
2020-12-18T15:58:33 < jpa-> yeah, i think it was discussed here a year back or so
2020-12-18T15:58:34 < zyp> and datasheet lists five gpios, so I guess that's without VDD/VSS/NRST
2020-12-18T15:58:46 < zyp> okay, I think I must have missed that
2020-12-18T15:58:53 < zyp> but that's pretty wtf :p
2020-12-18T15:59:29 < zyp> I guess the people who specced the packaging assumed NRST would be possible to turn off or something
2020-12-18T16:00:23 < jpa-> ah, STM32G031 has NRST_MODE option byte, but STM32G030 does not
2020-12-18T16:01:13 < zyp> does that also come in so8n? :p
2020-12-18T16:05:17 < jpa-> yeah
2020-12-18T16:05:27 < jpa-> i think they might have taken pin compatiblity a bit too far ;)
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2020-12-18T16:24:11 < jadew> lmfao, the audio industry is full of snake oil companies
2020-12-18T16:24:20 < jadew> "passive preamplifier"
2020-12-18T16:24:31 < jadew> (aka not an amplifier)
2020-12-18T16:25:02 < mjml> so is it just like a filter or something
2020-12-18T16:25:05 < jadew> It has no power supply or active components inside, resulting in some of the most transparent sound quality around for a fraction of the price of its active counterparts.
2020-12-18T16:25:26 < jadew> mjml, I'm going to guess it's just a potentiometer
2020-12-18T16:25:41 < jadew> 160 GBP
2020-12-18T16:25:46 < jadew> 940 SOLD!
2020-12-18T16:25:59 < mjml> ceramic passive low-pass preamplifier
2020-12-18T16:26:09 < mjml> previously known as a capacitor
2020-12-18T16:26:39 < jadew> SMD Stepped Attenuator
2020-12-18T16:26:41 < jadew> Key to the excellent sound quality is the stepped attenuator, which utilises an array of thin film SMD resistors to provide precise, stepped volume control and excellent channel balance at all levels.
2020-12-18T16:26:46 < jpa-> "The Mini Passive Preamp is fundamentally a high quality volume control and input selector in a box."  so the name is the only lie
2020-12-18T16:27:02 < mjml> comes in a box with foam inserts and gold foil lining
2020-12-18T16:27:41 < jadew> jpa-, yes a volume control with 3 settings
2020-12-18T16:27:48 < jadew> 0, -10 and -20 dB
2020-12-18T16:27:54 < mjml> founders edition comes with a velvet bag and some stickers also
2020-12-18T16:28:43 < jadew> china can make this for $10, with high quality connectors, because that's the only thing worth anything there
2020-12-18T16:29:49 < jpa-> so, why don't they?
2020-12-18T16:30:15 < jadew> jpa-, they probably do
2020-12-18T16:30:34 < jadew> but I think the trick with this crap is to have a boutique name and a high price
2020-12-18T16:31:02 < jadew> so fundamentally incompatible with what china can do
2020-12-18T16:31:38 < jadew> OneGood Hi-Fi doesn't have a ring to it
2020-12-18T16:31:40 < jpa-> looks like "passive preamp" is a pretty commonly used name for input switcher & attenuator
2020-12-18T16:32:01 < jadew> well, if it is, it shows how stupid they are
2020-12-18T16:32:56 < jpa-> yeah, it is the same level stupidity like some people call the ARM Cortex debug interface "SWD" even though it needs three wires
2020-12-18T16:33:20 < jpa-> (oops, it wasn't actually Single wire but Serial wire.. good snark broken :(
2020-12-18T16:34:08 < mawk> lol
2020-12-18T16:34:30 < mawk> 14:56 <zyp> what the fuck is the point of bonding them together then
2020-12-18T16:34:33 < mawk> simplifying silicon
2020-12-18T16:34:38 < jadew> if it was single they would have called it OWL (one wire link)
2020-12-18T16:35:31 < jadew> you know, I bet you can take that acronym, and make it sound special to an audiophool
2020-12-18T16:35:41 < jadew> and all you have is a wire in a box
2020-12-18T16:35:59 < mawk> lol
2020-12-18T16:36:02 < jadew> the OWL box
2020-12-18T16:36:57 < mawk> kickstarter that
2020-12-18T16:37:26 < jadew> I was just thinking about the angle you could use in promoting that
2020-12-18T16:37:47 < jadew> but if I start that, someone is going to leak the logs to my customers
2020-12-18T16:37:55 < jadew> and make them look like idiots
2020-12-18T16:38:20 < jadew> *the logs from this conversation
2020-12-18T16:38:30 < jadew> so I'd have to find a different product
2020-12-18T16:38:32 < effractur> SWD is serial wire rnot single :P
2020-12-18T16:38:54 < jadew> yeah, but it's not serial wires
2020-12-18T16:39:01 < jpa-> "owl box" is not good search term anyway :)
2020-12-18T16:39:06 < jpa-> too many boxes for owls
2020-12-18T16:39:12 < jadew> jpa-, ah, you're right
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2020-12-18T16:39:48 < jadew> OWL Passive Preamplifier
2020-12-18T16:39:52 < jadew> bam! insta cash
2020-12-18T16:40:42 < jadew> you can even invent words, and they'll eat it up
2020-12-18T16:40:52 < jadew> Preamplifilter
2020-12-18T16:40:53 < jpa-> passive preamp is such last year, i need a passive power amplifier
2020-12-18T16:41:26 < jadew> that sounds good
2020-12-18T16:41:47 < jadew> Negative Gain Amplifier
2020-12-18T16:42:20 < jpa-> that's too negative term, make it "Subzero Gain Amplifier"
2020-12-18T16:42:54 < jpa-> "Supreme noise attenuation while preserving signal-to-noise ratio"
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2020-12-18T16:47:33 < karlp> mawk: how does bonding things together in packaging liek that "simplify silicon" ?
2020-12-18T16:55:34 < englishman> UNITY: The singular gain amplifier.
2020-12-18T16:56:19 < englishman> Tired of monotone? Girlfriends in the single digits? Try UNITY Gain.
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2020-12-18T17:53:38 < dongs> zyp, they all went up in price
2020-12-18T17:53:42 < dongs> everything is ~$1 or more
2020-12-18T18:02:15 < zyp> yeah, but something is still cheapest
2020-12-18T18:03:42 < dongs> i like F042, but the tsop20 F03x/4x is also not bad
2020-12-18T18:04:12 < zyp> the g030 in so8n looks interesting
2020-12-18T18:04:18 < dongs> yeah nobody has that
2020-12-18T18:05:00 < zyp> idk, they are in stock at RS and $.669 @100
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2020-12-18T18:06:01 < englishman> how is it better than stm8 in qfn20
2020-12-18T18:06:12 < zyp> it's not stm8
2020-12-18T18:06:22 < englishman> oh wow it actually looks pretty nice
2020-12-18T18:06:27 < englishman> idk about those packages tho
2020-12-18T18:06:34 < zyp> I'm not interested in dicking around with stm8 toolchain
2020-12-18T18:06:46 < englishman> no dicking required, it's all nice closedsores stuff
2020-12-18T18:07:15 < zyp> exactly
2020-12-18T18:07:22 < englishman> yeah, so it works
2020-12-18T18:07:37 < englishman> it even has stdperiphlib
2020-12-18T18:08:18 < zyp> fuck that
2020-12-18T18:08:19 < englishman> i wonder why they dont use those qfn packages without huge center pad more often
2020-12-18T18:08:40 < Steffanx> Yeah, the email to get a license system is wonderful
2020-12-18T18:08:43 < Steffanx> WONDERFULLLLL
2020-12-18T18:09:01 < Steffanx> or maybe sdcc is just as good nowadays idk
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2020-12-18T18:38:24 < mawk> no idea karlp but that's an argumet nrf used as well
2020-12-18T18:38:32 < mawk> to justify binding several pins to reset
2020-12-18T18:38:38 < mawk> not in silicon though, but on pcb
2020-12-18T18:38:42 < mawk> they said "to simplify routing"
2020-12-18T18:39:10 < karlp> sure, but you said to simplify silicon, which is what I was questioning
2020-12-18T19:02:07 < Steffanx> Hm
2020-12-18T19:06:35 < mawk> I assume you have to do routing in silicon too
2020-12-18T19:06:47 < mawk> and that it's even harder 
2020-12-18T20:03:34 < dongs> https://i.imgur.com/r897JWT.png anythign missing here other than the ack?
2020-12-18T20:07:51 < jpa-> looks normal to me
2020-12-18T20:08:44 < dongs> yea. and at 67khz-ish
2020-12-18T20:08:54 < dongs> so  slave sh9ould have no problem replying on time
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2020-12-18T20:13:29 < jpa-> the edges look sharp, have you made sure it is using pull-up and not strong drive?
2020-12-18T20:20:07 < dongs> other devices are responding
2020-12-18T20:20:16 < dongs> the one at 0x18 isn't tho.
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2020-12-18T20:22:03 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0VYsiMtrNE musics
2020-12-18T20:25:19 < qyx> whats the slave?
2020-12-18T20:28:17 < dongs> japchip that works fine in another unrelated proj
2020-12-18T20:28:26 < dongs> unless china somehow fuckd up and sent fakes
2020-12-18T20:28:47 < dongs> ill figure it out later.
2020-12-18T20:28:53 < dongs> gonna make some test cases with the bits that work
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2020-12-18T20:50:57 < jpa-> hmm, looks like running thermal tests up to 85°C was not very smart when the proto enclosure is printed out of PLA
2020-12-18T20:51:09 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20201218_204912.jpg   spring contacts pushed the top PCB out :D
2020-12-18T20:51:49 < jadew> use PET next :)
2020-12-18T20:53:07 < jpa-> using PA12 nylon next
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2020-12-18T21:01:45 < qyx> looks okish to me
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2020-12-18T21:09:10 < jadew> jpa-, you have a thermal chamber?
2020-12-18T21:10:57 < Steffanx> I like you glittery filament jpa- 
2020-12-18T21:12:24 < Steffanx> jadew: i bet it was his wife's hairdryer
2020-12-18T21:14:12 < jadew> I guess that could work, if the DUT didn't heat up too much compared to the environment
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2020-12-18T21:25:10 < kakium69> Steffanx: did the music performance impress you?
2020-12-18T21:29:42 < Steffanx> Didnt listen to it yet
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2020-12-18T21:45:17 < PaulFertser> What's the current best way to capture serial port traffic on Windows without additional hardware?
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2020-12-18T21:46:21 < effractur> as in the text?
2020-12-18T21:47:55 < PaulFertser> effractur: as in Sysinternals PortMon.
2020-12-18T21:47:57 < mjml> https://www.com-port-monitoring.com/
2020-12-18T21:48:35 < mjml> there's pay ones that have filtering etc
2020-12-18T21:58:40 < PaulFertser> mjml: looks like the free version can't "sniff".
2020-12-18T22:00:15 < mawk> do you like magic zyp ? https://serveur.io/Chebyshev.html
2020-12-18T22:00:36 < mawk> I take the exponential function series expansion to 6 terms, cut it to 4 terms using a magic trick, and the end result has almost same precision
2020-12-18T22:00:45 < mawk> lower degree, same precision
2020-12-18T22:00:52 < mawk> maybe you will like my magic trick too BrainDamage 
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2020-12-18T22:03:47 < Steffanx> he died
2020-12-18T22:04:13 < mawk> :(
2020-12-18T22:14:25 < zyp> not really interested in trying to understand that :p
2020-12-18T22:15:24 < Steffanx> LOL
2020-12-18T22:15:40 < mawk> :'(
2020-12-18T22:15:52 < mawk> there's nothing to understand
2020-12-18T22:15:56 < mawk> it's extremely simple
2020-12-18T22:16:06 < Steffanx> When will you have your holidays mr mawk?
2020-12-18T22:16:21 < mawk> zyp: degree 6 polynomial === mawk's magic machine ==> degree 2 polynomial, both have the same value to a high degree of precision
2020-12-18T22:16:23 < zyp> mawk, if there's nothing to understand, I lose nothing by not attempting :)
2020-12-18T22:16:25 < mawk> degree 4*
2020-12-18T22:16:51 < mawk> I don't know Steffanx 
2020-12-18T22:16:53 < mawk> probably next week
2020-12-18T22:16:57 < zyp> I'll let you know next time I actally have use for some math
2020-12-18T22:17:07 < mawk> every time you breath!
2020-12-18T22:17:30 < Steffanx> Every move you make?
2020-12-18T22:17:34 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-18T22:17:36 < Steffanx> Every bond you break?
2020-12-18T22:18:05 < jpa-> jadew: i have a styrofoam box with fan and peltier
2020-12-18T22:20:23 < zyp> I'm thinking about doing some syzygy boards (https://syzygyfpga.io/specification/), and they need a MCU to hold some board ID stuff (pretty much just like a dumb i2c eeprom, except address is set by a resistor read by adc)
2020-12-18T22:21:08 < zyp> so I'm wondering if I should just throw on a g030 so8n dedicated for that, even though I might put another mcu as well on the same board
2020-12-18T22:24:16 < zyp> considering the QTE/QTH connectors costs much more than the mcu, I guess the cost doesn't really matter all that much, and it'd be nice to just have a reusable firmware for the metadata chip independent of everything else
2020-12-18T22:25:16 < zyp> also the metadata chip runs at 3.3V and is used to negotiate Vio, other mcu might have to run at Vio
2020-12-18T22:25:16 < Steffanx> No, you need one of those attiny in 6 pin package
2020-12-18T22:25:58 < zyp> I mean, spec suggests attiny44a
2020-12-18T22:28:17 < zyp> but fuck having to have a way to flash those, even if I could run an existing firmware :)
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2020-12-18T22:30:11 < zyp> emeb_mac, did I ask you before what you think about the syzygy standard?
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2020-12-18T22:45:35 < Steffanx> The neighbours interfering with your wifi signal again BrainDamage? ;)
2020-12-18T22:46:17 < BrainDamage> no, you don't see when that happens
2020-12-18T22:46:38 < Steffanx> I hope so indeed
2020-12-18T22:47:49 < BrainDamage> this was me tearing apart the mess and putting a bit order in the box
2020-12-18T22:48:03 < BrainDamage> the coax from the ntp were almost shorting another board by bending the pins
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2020-12-18T22:51:19 < Steffanx> Heh, yay. Sounds like a nice setup
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2020-12-18T23:02:20 < Steffanx> Not even like this jpa-? https://twitter.com/ScottPphoto/status/1339401119777210369/photo/1 im disappointed.
2020-12-18T23:03:00 < Steffanx> For the nitters: https://nitter.net/ScottPphoto/status/1339401119777210369/photo/1
2020-12-18T23:10:02 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fxYtrzK.png
2020-12-18T23:10:03 < bitmask> purdy
2020-12-18T23:21:53 < BrainDamage> are those torture devices?
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2020-12-18T23:23:28 < antto> hmmmm
2020-12-18T23:23:34 < antto> is that for a cat wheel?
2020-12-18T23:23:39 < Steffanx> Looks like of those dumble devices
2020-12-18T23:23:56 < antto> nah, the bottoms are curved too
2020-12-18T23:23:58 < Steffanx>  /polishinh
2020-12-18T23:24:02 < Steffanx> G
2020-12-18T23:24:39 < Steffanx> Enlighten us mr bitmask 
2020-12-18T23:24:56 < bitmask> haha its just a spool holder
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2020-12-18T23:25:04 < antto> a wot
2020-12-18T23:25:08 < karlp> what ar ethey?
2020-12-18T23:25:11 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2479238
2020-12-18T23:25:39 < antto> okay, that's almost a cat wheel
2020-12-18T23:26:10 < karlp> is there an aversion to using the axel in the middle that I don't understand?
2020-12-18T23:26:20 < karlp> thjis seems like 3d printing things because you can do it that way?
2020-12-18T23:28:31 < emeb> zyp: no - we haven't talked about syzygy. I don't know anything about it (except that it's apparently on that new Butterstick that Greg is doing)
2020-12-18T23:29:12 < emeb> looks like it's using some fancy Samtech connectors.
2020-12-18T23:29:16 < zyp> yeah
2020-12-18T23:29:56 < zyp> that's why I'm taking an interest in it now, I were the first to put in an order on the butterstick campaign :p
2020-12-18T23:29:57 < Steffanx> *scamtec. Better ask englishman  about them
2020-12-18T23:30:26 < bitmask> the one I have now uses an axel in the middle, for one, you have to screw it on and off so thats an extra step, and it actually spins too freely so when it slightly tugs on the spool it starts to unravel, this one should be quick and easy
2020-12-18T23:30:27 < emeb> zyp: heh - looks like a fun project. I might jump on it too.
2020-12-18T23:30:50 < emeb> but I've got soooo many random FPGA boards laying around. Hard to think what good one more would do.
2020-12-18T23:31:19 < zyp> I just noticed the other day that the ECPIX-5 was finally available, so I ordered one, and then a few hours later I get an email notification that butterstick launched, and I want one of those too :p
2020-12-18T23:31:52 < zyp> … and I haven't even had time to play with the ulx3s yet
2020-12-18T23:32:42 < zyp> but I'm interested in the serdes
2020-12-18T23:33:22 < qyx> awaiting presents?
2020-12-18T23:33:59 < zyp> making a board to plug into the butterstick will be a lot easier than rolling my own with both fpga and the stuff to hook up to it
2020-12-18T23:34:48 < zyp> and the ECPIX-5 got serdes hooked up to the usb connector for usb3 (or alternate modes) which is also really interesting
2020-12-18T23:37:20 < karlp> does zyxgysassasfd find any use on any other board? or is this a brand new standard from that crowd?
2020-12-18T23:37:32 < karlp> and fucking hell, what the fuck was being smoked to use that name
2020-12-18T23:37:48 < zyp> digilent also has a couple of boards using it
2020-12-18T23:38:37 < zyp> https://store.digilentinc.com/zmods/ <- ADC and DAC modules, and two FPGA boards capable of hosting them
2020-12-18T23:40:50 < zyp> Greg Davill is also apparently doing a bunch of simple module designs for this: https://github.com/gregdavill/advent-calendar-of-circuits-2020
2020-12-18T23:40:55 < zyp> some of them looks useful
2020-12-18T23:46:04 < karlp> running into serious bits of kit: https://store.digilentinc.com/eclypse-z7-zynq-7000-soc-development-board-with-syzygy-compatible-expansion/
2020-12-18T23:46:48 < zyp> and https://store.digilentinc.com/genesys-zu-zynq-ultrascale-mpsoc-development-board/
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--- Day changed Sat Dec 19 2020
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2020-12-19T00:48:33 < emeb> zyp: yeah - I'm kinda edging towards some serdes applications. PCIe and/or JESD204b stuff.
2020-12-19T00:49:15 < emeb> I wish there were a low-cost PCIe + ECP5 devboard out there to play with now, but looks like I might have to roll my own.
2020-12-19T00:54:20 < zyp> I talked to the lambdaconcept people some months ago, they are apparently aiming to do pcie over the usb-c on ECPIX-5, so they've wired it for refclk via SBU
2020-12-19T00:55:00 < zyp> and judging by https://github.com/gregdavill/advent-calendar-of-circuits-2020/tree/main/pcie_x4 Greg is also aiming to do pcie with the butterstick
2020-12-19T01:02:41 < emeb> Yeah, he pointed me at some of his little adapter boards when I asked on esden's discord a few days ago. Looks like that might be one way to go.
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2020-12-19T01:03:28 < emeb> And I also saw some mention that there may be ECP5 parts in TQFP144 soon, which would make prototyping a bit less spooky for folks like me who are BGA shy.
2020-12-19T01:03:54 < zyp> huh, neat
2020-12-19T01:04:19 < zyp> wouldn't be surprised if they don't come with serdes though
2020-12-19T01:04:29 < emeb> yes. that is my concern too.
2020-12-19T01:09:56 < emeb> Yep - if you grab the latest revision of the datasheet from October there's a 144-pin pkg listed for the LFE5U parts only. So no serdes.
2020-12-19T01:10:38 < zyp> still cuts down on board complexity
2020-12-19T01:11:17 < emeb> Indeed.
2020-12-19T01:12:22 < emeb> Was an interesting discussion a few months ago where it seems that all the ECP5 parts have serdes on them, but some are either not pinned out or at least not tested at mfg.
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2020-12-19T01:12:51 < zyp> yeah, I remember you mentioned that before
2020-12-19T01:13:11 < emeb> Dave Shah confirmed that even the 5U parts have the structures in silicon, and on the BGAs the pins are there but listed as NC.
2020-12-19T01:13:35 < zyp> only on the 381 and up
2020-12-19T01:14:04 < zyp> the 256 package that you only get 5U in, not 5UM don't have serdes balls
2020-12-19T01:14:29 < zyp> IIRC 256 and 381 have exactly the same number of IO apart from those
2020-12-19T01:15:47 < emeb> Hmm... wonder about the 285 pkg.
2020-12-19T01:15:59 < zyp> hang on, maybe I'm misremembering
2020-12-19T01:16:22 < emeb> the 285 is a 0.5mm pitch though, so tough to route.
2020-12-19T01:16:39 < zyp> ah, right, I've disregarded that because of the pitch :)
2020-12-19T01:16:54 < zyp> but yeah, both 5U and 5UM in 285 as well
2020-12-19T01:17:14 < emeb> That would be a chore.
2020-12-19T01:18:58 < zyp> I kinda wanna do a 0.5mm pitch board at some point, would have been fun to make a small module with a fpga, flash and one of those small rpc drams
2020-12-19T01:19:48 < emeb> IIRC the OrangeCrab is 6L, so you'd likely have to go to a fairly $$ process.
2020-12-19T01:20:01 < zyp> yeah
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2020-12-19T02:16:25  * karlp wonders how much ecp5 sales went up after landing in yosys
2020-12-19T02:16:29 < karlp> must be a serious bump
2020-12-19T02:18:29 < karlp> fwiw,, jlcpcb will do 100x100 6L for only like ~90€
2020-12-19T02:19:12 < karlp> (and you'll still pay a premium to have lead free)
2020-12-19T02:22:44 < karlp> what's the tag connect on https://github.com/gregdavill/advent-calendar-of-circuits-2020/tree/main/pcie_x4 for?
2020-12-19T02:23:04 < karlp> to program the not-present id mcu?
2020-12-19T02:23:20 < englishman> without any holes?
2020-12-19T02:26:43 < englishman> is this entire product a devboard with those awful scamtec connectors
2020-12-19T02:27:35 < englishman> it's not even a devboard, it's just a pinout?
2020-12-19T02:27:42 < englishman> is that all it takes to have an opensores project these days
2020-12-19T02:28:05 < karlp> it's ok, digilent is using it too...
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2020-12-19T02:59:40 < Steffanx> Whats then MOQ and lead time on those connectors?
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2020-12-19T03:54:38 < englishman> moq: 1. lead time: your entire life
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2020-12-19T05:56:28  * laurence_ is working on image processing
2020-12-19T05:56:38 < laurence_> is there a nonlinear fft2 based correlation method?
2020-12-19T05:56:58  * laurence_ is looking for something that strongly biasses against non matching parts of a template
2020-12-19T06:05:47 < dongs> i only know about image processing to detect blacks
2020-12-19T06:10:14 < laurence_> lol
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2020-12-19T14:09:46 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/oJD0Iox.mp4
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2020-12-19T15:46:07 < Steffanx> PaulFertser, why you cannot trust the FAA&Boeing (if its true)
2020-12-19T15:46:10 < Steffanx> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/19/737-max-boeing-inappropriately-coached-test-pilots-say-senators
2020-12-19T15:46:40 < Steffanx> The committee concluded Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Boeing officials “had established a pre-determined outcome to reaffirm a long-held human factor assumption related to pilot reaction time”.
2020-12-19T15:46:41 < Steffanx> Oops.
2020-12-19T15:48:11 < Steffanx> And more nice quoted
2020-12-19T15:48:14 < Steffanx> s
2020-12-19T15:49:03 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: thanks, will read.
2020-12-19T15:49:11 < effractur> yea fuck FAA
2020-12-19T16:12:55 < kakium69> foul play continues
2020-12-19T16:17:29 < Steffanx> Hows life in finland mr kakium69 
2020-12-19T16:17:50 < kakium69> dark
2020-12-19T16:18:11 < kakium69> I just came back from ride
2020-12-19T16:18:41 < kakium69> some four-wheel drifting on snow
2020-12-19T16:23:24 < PaulFertser> With blocked differential?
2020-12-19T16:24:06 < kakium69> torsen mid an rear
2020-12-19T16:24:53 < kakium69> thing needs like 200 more horsepower man
2020-12-19T16:25:06 < PaulFertser> kakium69: haha
2020-12-19T16:25:17 < PaulFertser> kakium69: did you make any videos?
2020-12-19T16:25:30 < kakium69> no I don't have phone holder/mount
2020-12-19T16:25:59 < kakium69> and as steff says don't drift and use your phone at the same time
2020-12-19T16:26:12 < PaulFertser> Why did you go alone?
2020-12-19T16:26:25 < PaulFertser> Steff is right
2020-12-19T16:26:45 < kakium69> there is nobody conviently available
2020-12-19T16:27:22 < kakium69> I went to see my friend in next village to mine and he has left to lapland
2020-12-19T16:27:43 < kakium69> for skiing
2020-12-19T16:29:32 < Steffanx> Isnt there snow in your middle of nowhere kakium69 ?
2020-12-19T16:29:40 < kakium69> yes
2020-12-19T16:29:46 < kakium69> but better and more snow in lapland
2020-12-19T16:29:49 < kakium69> powder
2020-12-19T16:29:57 < kakium69> a lot of powder
2020-12-19T16:30:09 < kakium69> it's like cotton man
2020-12-19T16:30:35 < kakium69> if you go off-slope to deep powder
2020-12-19T16:31:09 < kakium69> here mainly artificial snow is used
2020-12-19T16:32:59 < zyp> karlp, I assume the ID mcu is on the bottom side along with the connector so you don't have to do double sided reflow just for that
2020-12-19T16:33:30 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_Capture
2020-12-19T16:33:53 < BrainDamage> super commmon iin the usa
2020-12-19T16:34:56 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I had better opinion of the USA institutions
2020-12-19T16:36:30 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: consider that copyright has been steadingly increasing up to 100+ years only to appease disney
2020-12-19T16:39:47 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: that's not as dangerous as wrong FAA or NHTSA decisions.
2020-12-19T16:47:02 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: are you sure? aviation accidents are super rare, on the other hand economic disparity makes a lot of deaths every year
2020-12-19T16:48:13 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: no, not really sure, I can hardly come up with a way to determine it with any degree of certainty.
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2020-12-19T16:49:20 < BrainDamage> consider also all the toll taken on farmers to preserve monsanto's hegemony on ogm
2020-12-19T16:50:45 < BrainDamage> in the us corruption is essentially legalized
2020-12-19T16:50:51 < BrainDamage> as in, senators can accept sponsors for caimpaigns
2020-12-19T16:51:14 < BrainDamage> in exchange to preference to vote during issues
2020-12-19T16:51:27 < BrainDamage> tobacco lobby is also directly lobbying the senatee
2020-12-19T16:51:36 < BrainDamage> or the soft drink industry
2020-12-19T16:51:42 < BrainDamage> or the cereal industry
2020-12-19T16:51:43 < BrainDamage> etc etc
2020-12-19T16:53:20 < BrainDamage> and those indirectly make a lot of deaths from health issues
2020-12-19T17:35:27 < mawk> direct lobbying is forbidden in france, and even legal lobbying is taboo and would make a public outcry
2020-12-19T17:35:31 < mawk> but it will probably change soon
2020-12-19T17:35:37 < mawk> everything is americanizing
2020-12-19T17:41:46 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:6650:5dad:1b84:f7c6:a5d0] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-19T18:16:58 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2020-12-19T18:21:58 < englishman> the right to petition the government is protected in the constitution, so lobbying is one of the founding principles of America
2020-12-19T18:23:55 < mawk> does petition means "giving loads of money" ?
2020-12-19T18:27:02 < englishman> it has been argued that money is a form of free speech yes
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2020-12-19T18:38:42 < mawk> are bullet a form of free speech?
2020-12-19T18:53:10 < BrainDamage> some tangentially related fun: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32744984/
2020-12-19T18:54:21 < mawk> nice
2020-12-19T19:04:25 < BrainDamage> >First, on 17 July 2015 USRTK filed a request with the UC for emails sent or received by John Peters, professor at UC Anschutz Health and Wellness Center, regarding Coca-Cola, the GEBN and individuals affiliated with it. Eleven thousand seven hundred and fourteen pages of correspondence were 
2020-12-19T19:07:06 < mawk> why are they not using numbers
2020-12-19T19:07:12 < mawk> 11714
2020-12-19T19:08:05 < BrainDamage> they are later on, I guess using words drives the point home better
2020-12-19T19:08:25 < BrainDamage> it is a staggering amount
2020-12-19T19:10:24 < mawk> yeah
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2020-12-19T19:19:15 < dongs> UC Auschwitz Health and Wellness Center
2020-12-19T19:23:32 < antto> no SPA?
2020-12-19T19:24:26 < antto> all inclusive?
2020-12-19T19:24:37 < antto> don't tell me it's a trip via railway
2020-12-19T19:30:04 < Steffanx> There are even reviews.. 
2020-12-19T19:43:40 < Steffanx> mr jpa- i recall you once made this temperature probe for inside your oven. Have bloggings about that?
2020-12-19T19:44:15 < jpa-> unfortunately no bloggings, was too busy to blog at the time
2020-12-19T19:44:23 < Steffanx> lies.
2020-12-19T19:44:29 < jpa-> *lazy
2020-12-19T19:45:03 < Steffanx> ah alright
2020-12-19T19:45:23 < Steffanx> i recall you used some fancy battery. Remember what it was?
2020-12-19T19:46:33 < jpa-> it was just nokia cell phone battery
2020-12-19T19:46:47 < jpa-> looks like this is about as far as i got with blogging about it: http://paste.dy.fi/gF2/plain
2020-12-19T19:48:05 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/P1000468.JPG
2020-12-19T19:48:06 < Steffanx> Wasnt the probe wireless with a battery?
2020-12-19T19:48:13 < jpa-> ah yeah for the probe
2020-12-19T19:48:57 < jpa-> CR435
2020-12-19T19:52:01 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/um_pcb_soldered.jpg
2020-12-19T19:52:33 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/uunimittari.webm   looks like i have a fancy video also
2020-12-19T19:53:08 < Steffanx> ah CR435 thanks. Wasnt it used pretty much out of temperature spec?
2020-12-19T19:53:39 < jpa-> at the limits of temperature spec, considering it was at the temperature of the meat
2020-12-19T19:53:53 < Steffanx> oh ofcourse
2020-12-19T19:53:56 < jpa-> but also quite limit of the pulse current spec, so the battery life wasn't great
2020-12-19T19:54:18 < Steffanx> haha, i like how you put something cold in the with oven gloves :)
2020-12-19T19:55:03 < jpa-> hehe, it's a habit after burning myself on the heaters some time
2020-12-19T19:55:15 < jpa-> it would be interesting to know what kind of battery meater uses
2020-12-19T20:00:44 < Steffanx> Awh the internal photos on fccid are confidential
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2020-12-19T20:01:45 < laurence_> the absolute state of britbong government
2020-12-19T20:01:52 < laurence_> >new coronavirus lockdown
2020-12-19T20:01:55 < laurence_> >6 hours notice
2020-12-19T20:01:57 < laurence_> >6 hours
2020-12-19T20:02:25 < laurence_> >they knew about new variant virus in ...
2020-12-19T20:02:29 < laurence_> >September
2020-12-19T20:02:30 < jpa-> https://www.goodnewsfinland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/MEATER_electronics_765.jpg  has a photo but without the battery
2020-12-19T20:04:00 < Steffanx> Does anything in your basement really change laurence_?
2020-12-19T20:04:15 < laurence_> lolno
2020-12-19T20:31:16 < BrainDamage> jpa-: that almost looks like a commercialized product, well done
2020-12-19T20:31:43 < BrainDamage> just the pcb on the back of the probe betrays it
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2020-12-19T21:15:23 < Steffanx> your cr435 wasnt rechargeable was it jpa-?
2020-12-19T21:48:42 < mawk> is it possible some hw vendor is using regular usb on CC1 CC2 pins of a typeC connector?
2020-12-19T21:48:55 < mawk> which would sound a bit like raping the spec
2020-12-19T21:51:04 < mawk> https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/lost-vape-grus-quest-chipset.4905/page-2#post-12784
2020-12-19T21:51:44 < Steffanx> vape... need to say no more
2020-12-19T21:52:44 -!- laurence_ is now known as Laurenceb
2020-12-19T21:53:11 < Laurenceb> anyone here worked with image processing much?
2020-12-19T21:53:36  * Laurenceb is trying to convert these maps back to wind vectors
2020-12-19T21:53:38 < Laurenceb> http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/hattard/archive/nh_strat/50_nh_2014082000.png
2020-12-19T21:54:15 < Laurenceb> I'm trying template matching to find the arrows but its very unreliable
2020-12-19T21:54:22 < Laurenceb> like <40%
2020-12-19T21:54:45 < Steffanx> isnt the data available ... raw?
2020-12-19T21:55:34 < Laurenceb> not unless you want to download a few GB for each 6 hour update
2020-12-19T21:55:47 < Laurenceb> I want to process 6 years or so of data
2020-12-19T21:56:07 < Laurenceb> maybe I could pay NOAA to do it...
2020-12-19T21:56:20 < Laurenceb> if there was no virus I could fly to use with suitcase of hard drives
2020-12-19T21:56:24 < Laurenceb> *usa
2020-12-19T21:57:15 < Laurenceb> anyway
2020-12-19T21:57:32 < Laurenceb> I wonder if I need some sort of nonlinear matching, so a mismatch is weighted negatively
2020-12-19T21:57:47 < Steffanx> Ask you friend cracki in #opencv maybe
2020-12-19T21:57:55 < Laurenceb> not sure how to achieve that with fft2
2020-12-19T21:58:20 < Laurenceb> I could do it by hand...
2020-12-19T21:58:24 < Laurenceb> that would take a few months
2020-12-19T21:59:21 < Steffanx> It cant be that hard to make up some algorithm that find lines of length x width x
2020-12-19T22:04:30 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/j8KP5esU
2020-12-19T22:04:36 < Laurenceb> ok up to ~60% now
2020-12-19T22:05:56 < Laurenceb> it works quite well when it works...
2020-12-19T22:06:04 < Laurenceb> but it can lock on to junk
2020-12-19T22:06:46 < aandrew> what are you laurenting now, Laurenceb 
2020-12-19T22:07:12 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb. dont show that code please
2020-12-19T22:07:17 < Laurenceb> aandrew: reconstructing atmospheric conditions over several years
2020-12-19T22:10:01 < Laurenceb> maybe it requires neural networks 
2020-12-19T22:10:06 < Laurenceb>  /troll
2020-12-19T22:11:10 < Laurenceb> wait a sec I have a cheat
2020-12-19T22:11:20 < Laurenceb> the arrows are centered on the same locations
2020-12-19T22:11:28 < mawk> ask cracki,  Laurenceb 
2020-12-19T22:11:42 < Laurenceb> if I can manually locate the arrow centers I can add some "cheat" codez
2020-12-19T22:11:46 < Laurenceb> mawk: ok
2020-12-19T22:11:52 < mawk> he's the super pro
2020-12-19T22:12:13 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna find a way to hardcode arrow center
2020-12-19T22:17:22 < aandrew> up, up, down, down, left, left, right, right, b, b, a, a, start
2020-12-19T22:26:31 < GenTooMan> anyone abusing rust on the STM32?
2020-12-19T22:32:40 < qyx> and cracki not here anymore?
2020-12-19T22:33:06 < mawk> no
2020-12-19T22:33:15 < mawk> because there is a conspiracy against him amongst the operators
2020-12-19T22:33:22 < mawk> so he doesn't want to stay to just keep getting banned
2020-12-19T22:33:26 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-12-19T22:33:33  * Laurenceb got permab& from 8kun
2020-12-19T22:33:38 < mawk> lol
2020-12-19T22:33:44 < Laurenceb> for "facilitating the bumbumkang"
2020-12-19T22:34:02 < Steffanx> Dont blame his depression shit on me mawk
2020-12-19T22:34:06 < Laurenceb> who is a troll from chapotraphouse
2020-12-19T22:34:20 < mawk> Steffanx = conspiracy
2020-12-19T22:35:15 < Laurenceb> I think Victoria Hale b& me :(
2020-12-19T22:37:05 < Laurenceb> I mean Virginia Hale
2020-12-19T22:37:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/street-style-bold-street-special-3395606
2020-12-19T22:37:43 < Laurenceb> >"Stylist’s verdict: “Virginia is really working the mannish shoe trend for a/w10 with these gorgeous brogues. She's managed to soften the trend and make it more feminine"
2020-12-19T22:37:46 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2020-12-19T22:37:55 < Steffanx> Yeah, cant prove there is no such thing when someone is a conspiracy theorist, mawk
2020-12-19T22:38:05 < Laurenceb> >Virginia Hale, age 20, is studying Japanese. She is from Aigburth but now lives near the Albert Dock.
2020-12-19T22:38:17 < Laurenceb> thats a good euphamism for moderating 8kun
2020-12-19T22:38:21 < Steffanx> ask Laurenceb he had been quieted and banned quite often and he is stil around.
2020-12-19T22:38:58 < mawk> because he doesn't mind being a punching ball
2020-12-19T22:39:20 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-12-19T22:39:29 < Laurenceb> even Virginia Hale bullies me
2020-12-19T22:39:46 < Laurenceb> >studying Japanese
2020-12-19T22:41:15 < Steffanx> such troll, want to be next mawk :P
2020-12-19T22:41:40 < mawk> you wouldn't dare
2020-12-19T22:41:41 < mawk> I'm safe
2020-12-19T22:41:57 < Laurenceb> go to Albert Dock and irl bully Virginia
2020-12-19T22:42:33 < Laurenceb> I wonder if she fuggs codemonkey
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2020-12-19T23:04:50 < karlp> zyp: um, what? the connector _was_ on the side with the tag connector, you'd certainly thik that big empty board shouldn't need double sided.
2020-12-19T23:09:32 < zyp> oh, right
2020-12-19T23:09:57 < zyp> well, it's in the schematic, so I guess it's double sided then :)
2020-12-19T23:10:09 < karlp> jpa-: love the predicted end time plotting.
2020-12-19T23:11:31 < zyp> karlp, the other fun part is how that board should probably be fabbed on 4L
2020-12-19T23:13:02 < zyp> the signals would probably fit nicely in one layer with the other as ground plane, but it's kinda hard to get the impedances right when you run the signals 1.5mm above the plane
2020-12-19T23:40:57 < Steffanx> Laurenceb https://imgur.com/a/SpnJIDC cant be that hard to filter out the false positives  and im sure it will give you > 60% and if the background is always similar you can probably remove it easily. To get rid of the land marks/drawings and most of the false hits are gone.
2020-12-19T23:43:25 < Laurenceb> nice
2020-12-19T23:43:28 < BrainDamage> pretty sure you can mask out the static background
2020-12-19T23:43:29 < Laurenceb> what did you use for that?
2020-12-19T23:43:40 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: yeah I already masked it out
2020-12-19T23:44:33 < Steffanx> Yeah indeed BrainDamage 
2020-12-19T23:45:33 < Steffanx> Opencv + python. Just basic contour finding (on a black and white image)  and filtering on area. 
2020-12-19T23:46:47 < Steffanx> This is why you should have asked cracki. He knows opencv and machine vision stuff waaay better than i. 
2020-12-19T23:46:56 < Steffanx> Me.
2020-12-19T23:49:54 < Steffanx> I now used some tiny "eroding" to remove the thin background likes, but its not enough 
2020-12-19T23:51:10 < BrainDamage> take multiple projections, median filter them so that only the background remains, then subtract
2020-12-19T23:51:23 < BrainDamage> it's not any different from subtracting baseline wit lpf
2020-12-19T23:52:37 < Steffanx> If only I had more images
2020-12-19T23:53:22 < BrainDamage> faprenceb has
2020-12-19T23:53:56 < Steffanx> And with some not so fancy magic you can easily fill the gaps created by the substraction
--- Day changed Sun Dec 20 2020
2020-12-20T00:00:23 < BrainDamage> also, vips can easily do this
2020-12-20T00:01:11 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/libvips/nip2
2020-12-20T00:01:30 < BrainDamage> >nip2 comes with a 50-page manual --- press F1 or Help / Contents in the program to view it.
2020-12-20T00:03:00 < Steffanx> Ah some visual mv tool looks easy enough
2020-12-20T00:04:37 < Steffanx> Is Laurenceb still awake?
2020-12-20T00:04:54 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-20T00:04:58 < Laurenceb> thanks for the help
2020-12-20T00:05:13 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to use hardcoded arrow centers atm
2020-12-20T00:08:10 < Laurenceb> but <50% so far :(
2020-12-20T00:13:09 < Laurenceb> hmm 78% now, not too bad
2020-12-20T00:20:24 < Laurenceb> lol my dad just emailed, he has worked out coronavirus
2020-12-20T00:20:28 < Laurenceb> it was the FSB
2020-12-20T00:20:54 < Laurenceb> the unsolicited parcels people were getting sent last year were from the FSB and contained coronavirus
2020-12-20T00:20:59 < Laurenceb> marbles: lost
2020-12-20T00:21:20 < mawk> lol
2020-12-20T00:21:29 < mawk> he needs to tell the press Laurenceb this is huge
2020-12-20T00:21:34 < mawk> it's even worthy of the daily mail I think
2020-12-20T00:22:45 < Laurenceb> lol he has collected samples of unsolicited parcels and has them in a freezer
2020-12-20T00:22:51 < Laurenceb> he is going to PCR test them
2020-12-20T00:23:51 < mawk> lol serioiusly
2020-12-20T00:24:06 < mawk> hasn't proteins degraded too much over 1 year though?
2020-12-20T00:29:38 < Steffanx> How can you be his son Laurenceb?
2020-12-20T00:30:05 < Laurenceb> lol
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2020-12-20T01:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> PROGRESS! Been having a right nightmare getting this to load the graphic assets without crashing this last few days... But HAY LOOK its working... God knows how I actually managed to fix it! https://youtu.be/F-OndfGPpIk 
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2020-12-20T01:48:42 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, looks nice
2020-12-20T01:53:13 < Mangy_Dog> thankies
2020-12-20T01:53:33 < Mangy_Dog> just spent the last several days trying to figure out why loading the assets caused it to crash
2020-12-20T01:53:44 < Mangy_Dog> and tbh while its working ish now... im still non the wiser
2020-12-20T01:53:51 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect a mixture of a few things
2020-12-20T01:53:59 < Mangy_Dog> maybe EM noise or power issues
2020-12-20T01:54:13 < Mangy_Dog> as well as some configuration stuff in the library
2020-12-20T01:54:18 < Mangy_Dog> and lib versions
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2020-12-20T04:47:27 < mawk> I made gdb segfault
2020-12-20T04:47:28 < mawk> list ,,
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2020-12-20T05:12:40  * Laurenceb is trying to use curl with kproxy
2020-12-20T05:12:40 < Laurenceb> this was a bad idea
2020-12-20T05:12:54 < Laurenceb> meta http-equiv="refresh" content="2;url=http://server6.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/saun/sjkzz/smsqvj/sqrs/p2/HYSPLIT_traj.php">
2020-12-20T05:12:57 < Laurenceb> weird
2020-12-20T05:17:29 < Laurenceb> I should be able to go there
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2020-12-20T08:42:42 < jpa-> Steffanx: non-rechargeable indeed, and pretty annoying to change
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2020-12-20T14:56:10 < mawk> is rtt good?
2020-12-20T14:58:10 < mawk> why should I use it?
2020-12-20T15:02:50 < Steffanx> It works well for me
2020-12-20T15:02:57 < Steffanx> Incl systemview etc
2020-12-20T15:03:34 < Steffanx> Faster than semihosting and no extra cables for uart 
2020-12-20T15:04:14 < Steffanx> And I recall they say it faster than swo stuff
2020-12-20T15:06:47 < mawk> why do you need it to be faster though
2020-12-20T15:06:49 < mawk> it's just text 
2020-12-20T15:25:08 < Steffanx> Its not
2020-12-20T15:26:37 < Steffanx> And who doesnt want a text printout with not so much overhead?
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2020-12-20T15:54:03 < mawk> I'm debugging nordic shit
2020-12-20T15:54:15 < mawk> in the bootloader, which is supposed to be the mega hardned 200%-bug-free audited tested code
2020-12-20T15:54:29 < mawk> they're doing shit like set MSP register, jump to address; but all from C
2020-12-20T15:54:43 < mawk> so gcc is free to do whatever it wants between the set MSP and the jump, and it's what it does
2020-12-20T15:54:54 < mawk> it tries to pop registers because it doesn't know the stack changed, and it crashes
2020-12-20T15:55:25 < Steffanx> hah sounds familiar
2020-12-20T15:59:03 < Steffanx> i recall i saw something similar and than someone decided to "fool" GCC by added an endless loop after the jump, wich apparently worked (for the time being)
2020-12-20T15:59:06 < Steffanx> *adding
2020-12-20T15:59:22 < mawk> lol
2020-12-20T15:59:25 < mawk> that's mega ugly
2020-12-20T15:59:30 < mawk> the proper fix is make it in assembly
2020-12-20T15:59:35 < mawk> just inline assembly is fine
2020-12-20T15:59:42 < mawk> but proper assembly would get rid of the gcc overhead
2020-12-20T15:59:45 < Steffanx> no, inline assembly is ugly 
2020-12-20T15:59:48 < mawk> what
2020-12-20T15:59:59 < mawk> "proper fix is ugly, add this infinite loop to fool compiler"
2020-12-20T16:00:03 < mawk> your aesthetic sense is broken Steffanx 
2020-12-20T16:00:08 < mawk> I'm sorry you cannot express yourself on the matter
2020-12-20T16:00:52 < Steffanx> You're a french frog, you have no say in anything since napoleon died.
2020-12-20T16:00:54 < Steffanx> lol
2020-12-20T16:01:13 < mawk> napoleon is stil alive
2020-12-20T16:01:17 < mawk> it's sitting on my shelf
2020-12-20T16:01:21 < mawk> I bought a statue on amazon
2020-12-20T16:01:24 < Steffanx> See, fanatasy world.
2020-12-20T16:01:34 < mawk> I'm going to paint it
2020-12-20T16:02:37 < jadew> what tool do I want for Christmas?
2020-12-20T16:02:51 < mawk> a connected double dildo
2020-12-20T16:03:01 < jadew> would be nice, what else?
2020-12-20T16:03:16 < Steffanx> chastity belt ?
2020-12-20T16:03:40 < jadew> don't need one, my cherry was popped already
2020-12-20T16:04:31 < mawk> it's not only for that
2020-12-20T16:04:37 < mawk> it's to prevent you from having sex while your spouse is away
2020-12-20T16:04:43 < mawk> it locks your dong
2020-12-20T16:04:45 < jadew> oh
2020-12-20T16:04:54 < Steffanx> i dont even know what i want, how should i know what you want mr jadew?
2020-12-20T16:05:19 < jadew> Steffanx, well, my question was really about what you would like
2020-12-20T16:05:28 < jadew> so I can decide what I want
2020-12-20T16:05:30 < mawk> I want a scope
2020-12-20T16:05:37 < mawk> because the one I have is a 1990 tektronix
2020-12-20T16:06:07 < jadew> I want parallel pliers and something else
2020-12-20T16:06:12 < jadew> trying to figure out what the something else is
2020-12-20T16:06:23 < mawk> a cat
2020-12-20T16:06:28 < mawk> a pretty white cat
2020-12-20T16:06:41 < jadew> I had a cat
2020-12-20T16:06:46 < Steffanx> Need my riglol DS1052E mawk?
2020-12-20T16:06:48 < mawk> then time to get a new one
2020-12-20T16:07:04 < mawk> yes send it to me Steffanx 
2020-12-20T16:07:33 < jadew> 300 EUR
2020-12-20T16:07:48 < mawk> 300 is more than what I have left for the month after paying bills
2020-12-20T16:07:55 < mawk> and I use that for food
2020-12-20T16:08:29 < mawk> maybe I should start selling drugs again
2020-12-20T16:08:31 < englishman> i thought you were a pro EE
2020-12-20T16:08:38 < englishman> maybe stop consuming them
2020-12-20T16:08:42 < mawk> lol
2020-12-20T16:08:45 < mawk> my drugs are free
2020-12-20T16:08:53 < mawk> prescribed by doctor
2020-12-20T16:08:58 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/nDeuSBJ.png
2020-12-20T16:08:59 < mawk> no, it's just that I'm ""junior"" so low salary
2020-12-20T16:09:12 < mawk> lol
2020-12-20T16:09:46 < Steffanx> In reality you just need a bigger mouth mawk
2020-12-20T16:09:50 < englishman> with this promotion that takes effect in january i become a senior engineer which i will refer to as señor engineer
2020-12-20T16:09:58 < Steffanx> All companies abuse juniors
2020-12-20T16:09:58 < mawk> lol
2020-12-20T16:10:20 < mawk> maybe I'm junior in enterprise setting, but I've been coding for longer than some people at the company
2020-12-20T16:10:24 < englishman> the pay will be double what i started at 2 years ago
2020-12-20T16:11:05 < mawk> nice
2020-12-20T16:11:08 < jadew> englishman, congratulations
2020-12-20T16:11:17 < englishman> ty
2020-12-20T16:11:18 < mawk> let's celebrate with a big rail
2020-12-20T16:11:37 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-20T16:11:42 < englishman> i celebrated with some herbal tea
2020-12-20T16:11:47 < englishman> and a jigsaw puzzle
2020-12-20T16:11:58 < Steffanx> and a big roasted pig?
2020-12-20T16:12:10 < mawk> ok I'll have two then englishman , your loss
2020-12-20T16:12:13 < mawk> herbal tea isn't tea btw
2020-12-20T16:12:40 < englishman> tizane or whatever sorry i'm not millenial enough to keep up with the hip new lingo
2020-12-20T16:12:52 < Steffanx> Yet my apple pie tea is very nice, mawk
2020-12-20T16:14:02 < englishman> 🥧
2020-12-20T16:14:28 < mawk> tisane
2020-12-20T16:14:30 < mawk> it's a french word
2020-12-20T16:14:34 < mawk> from immemorial times
2020-12-20T16:14:44 < mawk> if hipsters are saying it, please report to the Kommandantur
2020-12-20T16:16:52 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas francais
2020-12-20T16:17:04 < mawk> it's français not francais
2020-12-20T16:17:09 < mawk> show some respect to Napoléeon
2020-12-20T16:17:45 < Steffanx> i know but my keyboard didnt want to do c properly
2020-12-20T16:17:53 < Steffanx> ç
2020-12-20T16:17:56 < mawk> change layout to azerty, press 9
2020-12-20T16:17:58 < mawk> çççç
2020-12-20T16:18:14 < mawk> I have also a ελλενικα layout
2020-12-20T16:18:16 < mawk> for maths
2020-12-20T16:18:19 < Steffanx> no thanks. qwerty all the way
2020-12-20T16:18:30 < mawk> I code in azerty
2020-12-20T16:18:39 < mawk> { is alt-gr 4
2020-12-20T16:18:41 < mawk> fun right?
2020-12-20T16:18:47 < mawk> [ is alt-gr 5
2020-12-20T16:19:02 < Steffanx> hows your french progressing mr englishman?
2020-12-20T16:19:12 < mawk> mr frenchman
2020-12-20T16:22:19 < englishman> impeccable
2020-12-20T16:22:45 < Steffanx> moitteeton
2020-12-20T16:22:45 < mawk> impékabl
2020-12-20T16:22:53 < mawk> moi téton?
2020-12-20T16:22:55 < englishman> french sucks tho
2020-12-20T16:22:55 < mawk> you titty?
2020-12-20T16:23:17 < mawk> nous ne suçons pas
2020-12-20T16:23:25 < mawk> peut-être à votre grand désarroi
2020-12-20T16:23:26 < Steffanx> its finnish mawk
2020-12-20T16:23:30 < mawk> ugly
2020-12-20T16:24:31 < Steffanx> yo momma
2020-12-20T16:26:07 < englishman> https://youtu.be/9E37a30inFs?t=24
2020-12-20T16:26:43 < englishman> lets see if mawk can translate this to french
2020-12-20T16:27:29 < mawk> there's too much noise to get anything
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2020-12-20T16:31:02 < Laurenceb> supp
2020-12-20T16:31:08 < Laurenceb> anyone here any good with curl?
2020-12-20T16:31:18 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to work out how session stuff works
2020-12-20T16:31:50 < jadew> Laurenceb, you have to remember the cookies
2020-12-20T16:32:01 < Laurenceb>  -b JSESSIONID="blah blah blah"
2020-12-20T16:32:09 < Laurenceb> does that look like a sane format?
2020-12-20T16:32:20 < jadew> I don't know what b does, but yeah
2020-12-20T16:32:30 < Laurenceb> it includes a cookie
2020-12-20T16:32:38 < jadew> then yeah
2020-12-20T16:32:46 < Laurenceb> the weird thing is this returns "invalid session"
2020-12-20T16:32:58 < jadew> remove the quotes
2020-12-20T16:32:58 < Laurenceb> but I can copy and paste the url into firefox and it loads
2020-12-20T16:33:03 < Steffanx> isnt there a flag to say it should store cookies and reuse those cookies for each request?
2020-12-20T16:33:21 < jadew> Steffanx, at best it can probably store them in a file
2020-12-20T16:33:27 < Steffanx> answer > yes there is
2020-12-20T16:33:32 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: I used -b and -c and it stores a cookie on session start
2020-12-20T16:33:40 < Laurenceb> but it didnt send it
2020-12-20T16:35:01 < Steffanx> it should
2020-12-20T16:35:07 < Laurenceb> hmm I cant see how this can be cookie related when it worked in firefox
2020-12-20T16:35:10 < Laurenceb> very strange
2020-12-20T16:35:59 < jadew> if it says invalid session ID, it's very likely that it is cookie related
2020-12-20T16:36:02 < Laurenceb>  -b cookiefile.txt -c cookiefile.txt   ?
2020-12-20T16:36:08 < Laurenceb> jadew: ok
2020-12-20T16:36:23 < jadew> Laurenceb, let me check the man
2020-12-20T16:36:31 < englishman> which vaccine do you prefer laurent
2020-12-20T16:36:43 < Steffanx> when you paste that url in a random other browser it works Laurenceb?
2020-12-20T16:36:51 < Laurenceb> the bill gates one englishman
2020-12-20T16:37:00 < Laurenceb> then I can install windows on my dna
2020-12-20T16:37:07 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: yeah
2020-12-20T16:37:21 < Laurenceb> but maybe I have an old cookie that makes it still work...
2020-12-20T16:37:51 < Laurenceb> try this
2020-12-20T16:37:53 < Laurenceb> http://server8.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/sruj/snvrabu/smno/p1/
2020-12-20T16:37:56 < Steffanx> but youve never used internet explorer right?
2020-12-20T16:37:57 < Steffanx> or edge
2020-12-20T16:37:59 < jadew> Users very often want to both read cookies from a file and write updated cookies back to a file,  so  using
2020-12-20T16:38:01 < jadew>               both -b, --cookie and -c, --cookie-jar in the same command line is common.
2020-12-20T16:38:05 < Steffanx> The session is invalid. You have to access KProxy main page to use it.
2020-12-20T16:38:21 < Laurenceb> aha
2020-12-20T16:38:34 < Laurenceb> so I must have an old cookie on my browser that somehow makes it work
2020-12-20T16:38:55 < PaulFertser> Probably it talks about session but in fact checks Referrer?
2020-12-20T16:39:05 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-20T16:39:17 < Laurenceb> but then if I c&p into browser it shouldnt work?
2020-12-20T16:39:31 < Steffanx> I visted the main page now and now your url works Laurenceb
2020-12-20T16:39:38 < PaulFertser> You have developer console in your browser, you can even copy full curl command out of it.
2020-12-20T16:39:40 < Laurenceb> wtf
2020-12-20T16:39:50 < Steffanx> it shows google, is that right Laurenceb?
2020-12-20T16:40:11 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-20T16:40:34 < Steffanx> So have your tool visit the main page and then your url? Done?
2020-12-20T16:40:52 < Steffanx> and safe cookies
2020-12-20T16:40:53 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2020-12-20T16:40:59 < Steffanx> save.
2020-12-20T16:41:01 < Laurenceb> but I already have a cookie
2020-12-20T16:41:14 < Laurenceb> saved during creation of the session url
2020-12-20T16:41:39 < Laurenceb> but yeah this is surely due to cookies
2020-12-20T16:42:07 < Steffanx> why this proxy mr Laurenceb?
2020-12-20T16:42:15 < Laurenceb> so noaa cant ban me
2020-12-20T16:42:36 < Steffanx> Get a cheap arse ovh server and let it do the job?
2020-12-20T16:42:38 < Laurenceb> I discovered I can abuse the hysplit tool
2020-12-20T16:42:42 < Steffanx> thats what mawk would do
2020-12-20T16:42:48 < Laurenceb> to get data out of their archive
2020-12-20T16:43:03 < Laurenceb> but I'll need a ton of queries and it will violate terms of service
2020-12-20T16:43:54 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah maybe someone could just run the script for me lol
2020-12-20T16:44:05 < Laurenceb> but first I need to understand curl anyway...
2020-12-20T16:44:56 < Laurenceb> >y default, curl doesn't send any cookies but you can add your own cookies via the -b 'name=value' command line argument
2020-12-20T16:45:01 < Laurenceb> now I'm very confused
2020-12-20T16:45:34 < Laurenceb> this looks like my issue https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15995919/how-to-use-curl-to-send-cookies
2020-12-20T16:47:25 < Streaker> there's a firefox extension that can generate a cookie file out of your firefox cookies.
2020-12-20T16:47:42 < Streaker> in the appropriate text format
2020-12-20T17:02:16 < mawk> just do not use curl Laurenceb 
2020-12-20T17:02:18 < mawk> use python request
2020-12-20T17:02:21 < mawk> with a session
2020-12-20T17:02:28 < mawk> it has an automatic cookie jar and remember cookies from previous requests
2020-12-20T17:02:32 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-12-20T17:02:32 < mawk> instead of manually fucking with curl
2020-12-20T17:02:48 < mawk> import requests; session = requests.Session()
2020-12-20T17:02:48 < Laurenceb> yeah this is giving me a headache
2020-12-20T17:02:57 < mawk> that's it, the you can do session.post(...), session.get(...), and so on
2020-12-20T17:03:02 < Laurenceb> cool
2020-12-20T17:03:11 < mawk> with a single cookie jar and a single http 1.1 keepalive connection
2020-12-20T17:03:12 < mawk> so pretty efficient
2020-12-20T17:03:25 < Laurenceb> k
2020-12-20T17:03:33 < Laurenceb> which module is this?
2020-12-20T17:03:37 < mawk> requests
2020-12-20T17:03:39 < mawk> I just said it
2020-12-20T17:03:40 < Laurenceb> requests?
2020-12-20T17:03:43 < mawk> sudo python3 -m pip install requests
2020-12-20T17:03:43 < Laurenceb> ah got it
2020-12-20T17:03:44 < Laurenceb> derp
2020-12-20T17:03:50 < Laurenceb> cool
2020-12-20T17:04:25 < Laurenceb> https://requests.readthedocs.io/en/master/
2020-12-20T17:04:28 < Laurenceb> found it
2020-12-20T17:07:47 < Laurenceb> ok I'll try this on my linux machine
2020-12-20T17:08:05 < Laurenceb> thanks
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2020-12-20T17:08:58 < BrainDamage> oh, and fyi, if you're working with APIs regularly, httpie makes your life 10x easier
2020-12-20T17:09:30 < BrainDamage> automatic json conversion, custom fields fetching, session management, etc
2020-12-20T17:10:09 < BrainDamage> you can even just print the request data without sending anything
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2020-12-20T21:21:16 < jadew> why do I think about war when I listen to this song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1FHfcaWPoM
2020-12-20T21:22:07 < jadew> the visuals might have something to do with it too
2020-12-20T21:27:07 < Steffanx> because its an awful song and war is awful
2020-12-20T21:36:00 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-12-20T21:39:28 < jadew> might have been used in a war themed movie
2020-12-20T21:43:05 < jadew> anyone ordered anything today from mouser?
2020-12-20T21:43:09 < jadew> keeps rejecting my cards
2020-12-20T22:00:15 < emeb> You have been canceled. Stay where you are and the authorities will be along to collect you for further processing momentarily.
2020-12-20T22:02:37 < jadew> it worked on a different shop, so I'm not canceled
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2020-12-20T22:11:45 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Altitude-Environmental-Chamber-Thermal-Vacuum-Chamber/151782542410
2020-12-20T22:11:52 < jadew> they can actually ship that thing
2020-12-20T22:11:56 < jadew> for 18k
2020-12-20T22:12:16 < jadew> maybe it's not as heavy as it looks
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2020-12-20T22:13:05 < jadew> 14.5 tonnes
2020-12-20T22:13:32 < jadew> well, I guess they can ship bigger things too
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2020-12-20T22:46:21 < BrainDamage> it's a standard cargo container, ofc it can be shipped
2020-12-20T22:49:28 < BrainDamage> you can even ship cargo ships https://wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-Blue-Marlin4.jpg
2020-12-20T23:03:33 < zyp> doesn't look like a standard container to me
2020-12-20T23:03:51 < zyp> doesn't seem to have the attachment points in the corners
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--- Day changed Mon Dec 21 2020
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2020-12-21T00:39:08 < Laurenceb> is mx lunix any good?
2020-12-21T00:39:08 < kakium69> sync: what do you think is the best material for camshaft axle seal?
2020-12-21T00:54:18 < Steffanx> Is just debian, xfce and some additional packages Laurenceb?
2020-12-21T00:54:49 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-21T00:59:49 < kakium69> why not mint?
2020-12-21T01:04:27 < Laurenceb> MX seems more popular right now
2020-12-21T01:06:57 < kakium69> never hörd
2020-12-21T01:07:05 < kakium69> mx?
2020-12-21T01:07:44 < kakium69> kde3.5 was nice
2020-12-21T01:29:28 < Steffanx> no lies kakium69, you hated it
2020-12-21T01:29:42 < kakium69> no
2020-12-21T01:30:00 < kakium69> I genuinely felt it was only propper desktop for lunix
2020-12-21T01:30:18 < kakium69> and still kinda do
2020-12-21T01:31:00 < kakium69> I use cinnamon and xfce and all those half desktop environments now
2020-12-21T01:31:15 < Steffanx> but it was ugly
2020-12-21T01:32:38 < BrainDamage> plasma5 is fine imo
2020-12-21T01:33:16 < kakium69> Steffanx: it was serious looking - not ugly
2020-12-21T01:35:36 < Steffanx> lol ok kakium69
2020-12-21T01:36:21 < kakium69> ms got the perfect desktop figured out in win95
2020-12-21T01:36:33 < Steffanx> Back when gradients were still THE WAY TO GO
2020-12-21T01:36:57 < BrainDamage> you can still get 80% of the looks with themes
2020-12-21T01:37:12 < Steffanx> What do you use now kakium69?
2020-12-21T01:37:17 < kakium69> win10
2020-12-21T01:37:22 < Steffanx> haha alright
2020-12-21T01:37:58 < kakium69> BrainDamage: you cannot get the environment back as all 3.5 software was dumped
2020-12-21T01:38:24 < Steffanx> Someone must be more autistic than you are kakium69.. someone must have made a theme
2020-12-21T01:38:39 < kakium69> it's not just the theme
2020-12-21T01:38:42 < BrainDamage> as far as functionality goes, the replacements aren't particularly lacking
2020-12-21T01:38:57 < BrainDamage> I don't remember anything I did in KDE3 that I can't do now
2020-12-21T01:39:03 < kakium69> when I tried kde4 it didn't have shit
2020-12-21T01:39:13 < BrainDamage> that's correct
2020-12-21T01:39:24 < BrainDamage> kde4 was rushed out incomplete
2020-12-21T01:39:27 < kakium69> and it's still heavy?
2020-12-21T01:39:37 < BrainDamage> and wasn't usable until 4.7 or something
2020-12-21T01:39:39 < kakium69> not like gnome heavy but heavy
2020-12-21T01:40:19 < BrainDamage> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/10/23/bold-prediction-kde-will-steal-the-lightweight-linux-desktop-crown-in-2020/
2020-12-21T01:40:36 < Steffanx> I mainly used opensuse like 10+ years ago, but i have no clue what it was. KDE whatever.
2020-12-21T01:40:49 < effractur> KDE is nice 
2020-12-21T01:40:52 < effractur> well QT is nice
2020-12-21T01:40:56 < effractur> so that makes kde nice
2020-12-21T01:41:11 < Steffanx> *Qt
2020-12-21T01:41:30 < Steffanx> QuickTime is over
2020-12-21T01:41:45 < BrainDamage> 500MB or so ram usage isn't too bad I'd say
2020-12-21T01:41:52 < BrainDamage> and cpu is pretty much idle
2020-12-21T01:43:59 < kakium69> maybe I'll give it a try
2020-12-21T01:44:18 < Ultrasauce> yeah i am liking kde 5 a lot and if i were to make a desktop application qt would be at the top of my list
2020-12-21T01:44:28 < BrainDamage> fun thing, if you're masochist, you can run kde in windows
2020-12-21T01:44:28 < Ultrasauce> the gnome ecosystem has some nicer foundations though
2020-12-21T01:44:35 < kakium69> any recommends debian distro that comes with kde and is not botnet?
2020-12-21T01:45:00 < kakium69> amazon spytool*
2020-12-21T01:45:18 < Steffanx> pick debian, select kde?
2020-12-21T01:45:25 < kakium69> maybe
2020-12-21T01:45:28 < kakium69> sounds hardcore
2020-12-21T01:46:23 < englishman> isn't Qt expensive if you are doing anything for profit
2020-12-21T01:47:40 < Ultrasauce> just use the lgpl stuff
2020-12-21T01:50:37 < Steffanx> You still have to be aware not everything is lgpl
2020-12-21T01:50:42 < Steffanx> Charting and stuff isnt
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2020-12-21T01:51:39 < Ultrasauce> ill keep that in mind next time i write a proprietary application for the linux desktop
2020-12-21T01:52:09 < englishman> what's a lunix desktop
2020-12-21T01:53:22 < BrainDamage> the thing that keeps happening every year
2020-12-21T01:53:25 < BrainDamage> just like the flu
2020-12-21T01:53:38 < Steffanx> i bet tesla runs lunix for its tablet crap
2020-12-21T01:54:04 < englishman> and Qt
2020-12-21T01:54:05 < Ultrasauce> yes on nvidia SoCs
2020-12-21T01:54:29 < englishman> first gen was Nvidia they switched to atom
2020-12-21T01:54:33 < Ultrasauce> o
2020-12-21T01:54:52 < englishman> couldn't run stardew valley
2020-12-21T01:55:47 < Steffanx> the buggy will break sooner or later atom?
2020-12-21T01:56:22 < BrainDamage> my parents have an atom desktop running since almost 10 years
2020-12-21T01:56:26 < BrainDamage> it works, it's just slow
2020-12-21T01:57:00 < Steffanx> lunix?
2020-12-21T01:57:12 < BrainDamage> and there's little motivation in replacing it now that my mother discovered smartphones
2020-12-21T01:57:18 < BrainDamage> yes, lunix
2020-12-21T01:57:31 < englishman> no it's z series
2020-12-21T01:58:01 < BrainDamage> for browsing pages, text editing, and reading emails it does just fine
2020-12-21T01:59:02 < Steffanx> ohno, shes the "900 euro for phone is ok" but "> 300 euro for a proper laptop is too much"   generation now?
2020-12-21T01:59:22 < englishman> old people love tablets
2020-12-21T01:59:34 < Steffanx> yeah, how's your ipad englishman?
2020-12-21T01:59:40 < englishman> wot
2020-12-21T01:59:58 < BrainDamage> nah, it's a china brand 200 euro phone
2020-12-21T02:00:12 < BrainDamage> she still has fingers glued on it 10+h day
2020-12-21T02:00:44 < Steffanx> heh, sounds familiar
2020-12-21T02:04:56 < Laurenceb> is it possible to install a lunix iso direct to hdd?
2020-12-21T02:05:17 < Laurenceb> i.e. I have another lunix is a different partition and pc is running from there
2020-12-21T02:08:55 < BrainDamage> most distro carry setup tools packaged
2020-12-21T02:09:07 < Laurenceb> I already have grub
2020-12-21T02:09:12 < BrainDamage> you install them, launch, and you can use your working lunix as install media
2020-12-21T02:09:24 < Laurenceb> so I should be able to just write it to its partition right?
2020-12-21T02:09:58 < BrainDamage> to a different partition, not the one you're running from
2020-12-21T02:10:04 < BrainDamage> otherwise, sure
2020-12-21T02:11:05 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-12-21T02:17:13 < Laurenceb> use dd to write the iso direct to the partition in /dev  ?
2020-12-21T02:18:15 < BrainDamage> no, that installs the live cd
2020-12-21T02:18:25 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-21T02:18:33 < BrainDamage> I told you, there's packaged setup tools, just google
2020-12-21T02:18:39 < Laurenceb> k
2020-12-21T02:19:01 < BrainDamage> you'll get the same menus as when you do an installation in the live cd
2020-12-21T02:27:49 < Laurenceb> then install on the partition it booted from?
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2020-12-21T02:31:00 < BrainDamage> no, I already told you you cannot overwrite the current running OS
2020-12-21T02:33:44 < Laurenceb> argg ok
2020-12-21T02:33:53 < Laurenceb> so how do I do this?
2020-12-21T02:35:15 < BrainDamage> if you want to overwrite the current running os, then yes, you need a live cd
2020-12-21T02:35:16 < BrainDamage> flash it to /another/ partition, dd is fine, then launch that
2020-12-21T02:38:09 < Laurenceb> hmm ok I'll just grab a spare hdd
2020-12-21T02:40:40 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FEpdm-eeWMAM5-UA.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig
2020-12-21T02:40:48 < BrainDamage> we've just hit the top right red box
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2020-12-21T02:43:23 < karlp> what's "minitreaty" ?
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2020-12-21T02:46:34 < BrainDamage> a watered down treaty that's semi-standardized, without negotiating the details, extremely likely to be in EU's favor
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2020-12-21T02:48:13 < mjml> karlp: a few chocolate almonds
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2020-12-21T02:51:54 < R2COM> is it worth running RHEL
2020-12-21T02:52:36 < kakium69> BrainDamage: should there be any implications for EU-citizen?
2020-12-21T02:53:23 < BrainDamage> other than higher difficulty to commerce with the uk, no
2020-12-21T02:53:57 < BrainDamage> traveling was already kind of "out of eu" since uk got an exclusion from schengen
2020-12-21T02:54:27 < BrainDamage> so you always needed to cross the immigration check, but not the customs
2020-12-21T02:54:41 < BrainDamage> now you need to cross both immigration, and customs
2020-12-21T02:55:03 < BrainDamage> it'll be quite nasty for many uk citizens abroad
2020-12-21T02:55:58 < BrainDamage> their status was priviledged thanks to eu agreenment, not requiring residence permission, etc, and all of a sudden, they'll become illegal immigrants, unless the individual country made some agreenment with the uk
2020-12-21T02:56:04 < BrainDamage> some did, some didn't
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2020-12-21T03:07:48 < kakium69> maybe I should ecu tune my car
2020-12-21T03:08:20 < kakium69> +19hp +300rpm and more responsive throttle valve
2020-12-21T03:08:44 < kakium69> + better mileage
2020-12-21T03:09:11 < kakium69> better gasolite consumption
2020-12-21T03:09:12 < Steffanx> Im lost in this entire brexit deal no deal thing
2020-12-21T03:09:31 < Steffanx> I thought there IS  deal, but apparently not
2020-12-21T03:09:38 < effractur> no there is no deal
2020-12-21T03:09:53 < effractur> ther was a withdrawl agreement with some points left to discuss
2020-12-21T03:10:03 < effractur> and those 3 points they cant find an agreement on
2020-12-21T03:10:11 < effractur> so it then the whole stuff if off the table
2020-12-21T03:10:20 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUooGYWV-EA musics
2020-12-21T03:10:54 < effractur> But there is only some provisialal agrement to preventa border between Irland and north-irland'
2020-12-21T03:10:57 < Steffanx> So there was no deal, so what was this fuzzzz months ago about then?
2020-12-21T03:11:17 < effractur> what fuzz?
2020-12-21T03:11:40 < effractur> So there is an agrement to keep the Northirland/irland border open
2020-12-21T03:11:43 < effractur> without checks
2020-12-21T03:11:57 < effractur> but UK was like Na we will push a law that will break that agrement
2020-12-21T03:12:11 < Steffanx> "We must have a deal no or it will be a no deal hard brexit" fuzz
2020-12-21T03:12:13 < effractur> and therefor breaking the trust
2020-12-21T03:12:15 < Steffanx> Now*
2020-12-21T03:12:41 < Steffanx> Maybe that was even a year ago, i dont remember anymore
2020-12-21T03:12:43 < effractur> ah yes because there where not enough EU meetings planned for discuss it
2020-12-21T03:13:01 < effractur> but they scheduled extra 
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2020-12-21T03:18:26 < Steffanx> Oh it was the 31st of januari. But that was mainly about to brexit or not to brexit
2020-12-21T03:21:19 < Steffanx> I stopped bothering after the 10th postponement
2020-12-21T03:24:54 < kakium69> someday I future we wonder when brexit started
2020-12-21T03:24:57 < kakium69> in
2020-12-21T03:25:08 < kakium69> and why
2020-12-21T03:25:13 < mawk> azerty
2020-12-21T03:32:37 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMJsqXzz5zs sleep video
2020-12-21T03:33:38 < kakium69> #relaxation
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2020-12-21T03:49:12 < Laurenceb> wtf this isnt good
2020-12-21T03:49:34 < Laurenceb> when I try to resize partitions on my usb hdd it unmounts from usb
2020-12-21T03:50:49 < Laurenceb> oh wait lmao
2020-12-21T03:51:03 < Laurenceb> >port 1 disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling...
2020-12-21T03:51:10 < Laurenceb> I've seen that error before
2020-12-21T03:51:16 < Laurenceb> thats a 5v brownout
2020-12-21T03:51:32 < Laurenceb> muh motherboard cant power the drive reliably
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2020-12-21T04:08:26 < kakium69> usually it means actual EMI
2020-12-21T04:09:22 < kakium69> change your cable?
2020-12-21T04:10:53 < kakium69> any modern laptop has easily the amperage in usb ports to power 2.5" sata
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2020-12-21T04:12:59 < Steffanx> But lb is oldschool ...
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2020-12-21T04:17:44 < kakium69> not that oldschool
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2020-12-21T04:28:40 < mawk> the bx instruction checks last bit and if it's 1 uses thumb mode, right
2020-12-21T04:31:50 < zyp> depends
2020-12-21T04:32:31 < zyp> «bx label» assumes arm mode and hence always faults with INVSTATE
2020-12-21T04:32:58 < zyp> «bx reg» checks last bit in register and faults with INVSTATE if it's 0
2020-12-21T04:34:02 < zyp> you'll see «bx label» in disassembly if you fuck up and link against a lib built for something other than cortex-m
2020-12-21T04:34:56 < zyp> before gcc-arm-embedded became the defacto toolchain, that used to be a common issue
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2020-12-21T05:53:50 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/zz6a9559
2020-12-21T05:53:52 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2020-12-21T05:55:41 < Laurenceb> I dont know wtf is going on any more
2020-12-21T06:02:26 < Laurenceb> other ports fail in the same way
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2020-12-21T06:39:41 < Laurenceb> woah smart over usb
2020-12-21T06:39:49 < Laurenceb> I didnt know that was possible
2020-12-21T06:39:59 < Laurenceb> how the hell
2020-12-21T06:40:39 < Laurenceb> looks like a faulty sector right where I planned to put my lunix image
2020-12-21T06:42:47 < Laurenceb> oh sweet - it uses the scsi passthrough 
2020-12-21T06:43:24 < Laurenceb> hmm I could have added funky smart style interfaces to stm32 mass storage lmao
2020-12-21T06:44:18 < Laurenceb> ok sleepy tiem, tomorrow I have to find a non screwed hdd when it shop is closed due to lockdown reeee
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2020-12-21T08:23:34 < R2COM> RHEL seems to be best distro for cad isnt it
2020-12-21T08:23:47 < machinehum> "cad"?
2020-12-21T08:23:57 < R2COM> cyberpunk 2nd time for a day crashed on me
2020-12-21T08:24:05 < R2COM> CAD if you will nigga
2020-12-21T08:24:38 < R2COM> i thought game is buggy for console faggots
2020-12-21T08:24:44 < R2COM> but it happens on PC too
2020-12-21T08:29:50 < machinehum> heh
2020-12-21T08:29:58 < machinehum> That shit flopped
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2020-12-21T09:34:14 < jadew> do you guys know what the data rate a regular PC has when writing to DDR4?
2020-12-21T09:35:00 < jadew> I need 40 Gbps and I wonder if it's attainable
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2020-12-21T09:43:20 < jpa-> jadew: random benchmark says that about 30GByte/s: https://www.techspot.com/articles-info/1171/bench/Memory.png
2020-12-21T09:53:57 < jadew> neat, thanks jpa- 
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2020-12-21T10:37:37 < benishor> jadew: what're you up to?
2020-12-21T10:37:54 < benishor> what are you streaming?
2020-12-21T10:45:02 < jadew> benishor, nothing, just going through some old ideas
2020-12-21T10:45:16 < jadew> kinda looking for something new to do
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2020-12-21T10:52:17 < benishor> jadew: so what's it all about? it sounds intriguing
2020-12-21T10:54:20 < jadew> kind of a secret until I have something working
2020-12-21T10:55:20 < jadew> I won't be working on that for now tho, decided to take on an easier project
2020-12-21T10:56:24 < jpa-> you should tell us, how else will we clone it?
2020-12-21T10:58:43 < jadew> :)
2020-12-21T11:09:42 < mawk> RHEL for CAD what
2020-12-21T11:09:46 < mawk> isn't it only for servers
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2020-12-21T11:49:42 < mawk> why doesn't openocd know the rtt command
2020-12-21T11:51:40 < mawk> it's in the docs
2020-12-21T11:51:48 < jpa-> do you have new enough device?
2020-12-21T11:51:55 < mawk> ah I needed to pull the new git repo
2020-12-21T11:51:57 < karlp> because you're reading master docs, and using some older build
2020-12-21T11:51:59 < mawk> why new enough device?
2020-12-21T11:52:06 < jpa-> err not device
2020-12-21T11:52:07 < jpa-> openocd :D
2020-12-21T11:53:00 < mawk> well thank you Marc Schink for your contribution
2020-12-21T12:10:35 < Steffanx> I dont like your attitude mawk
2020-12-21T12:10:54 < mawk> :(
2020-12-21T12:11:02 < mawk> you don't like opensource?
2020-12-21T12:12:48 < jadew> DHL just issued an e-mail stating that they stopped shipping to and from UK
2020-12-21T12:12:54 < jadew> (because of the new covid)
2020-12-21T12:13:01 < mawk> lol
2020-12-21T12:13:20 < Steffanx> 40gigabit/s what kind of picologger youre planning to make jadew?
2020-12-21T12:19:35 < PaulFertser> mawk: you are supposed to be reading on-line documentation, not some pages on the Internet. 
2020-12-21T12:26:28 < jpa-> britain really got their brexit
2020-12-21T12:34:05 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-12-21T12:36:42 < jadew> Steffanx, a very fast one
2020-12-21T12:37:17 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, they got it a couple of days early it seems
2020-12-21T12:38:18 < jpa-> i bet after a few weeks without fresh fruit they'll be like "let's cancel whole thing"
2020-12-21T12:38:36 < mawk> that's what I did PaulFertser 
2020-12-21T12:38:42 < mawk> I was on http://openocd.org/doc/html/General-Commands.html
2020-12-21T12:39:20 < PaulFertser> mawk: that's not on-line, that's on the Internet. On-line means on the computer your terminal is directly connected to.
2020-12-21T12:39:37 < mawk> lol
2020-12-21T12:40:11 < mawk> nobody ran the info command since 2000
2020-12-21T12:40:16 < mawk> html is much better
2020-12-21T12:40:45 < PaulFertser> There're other Info browsers too, it's not just the old "info".
2020-12-21T12:41:34 < PaulFertser> Both GNOME and KDE/Plasma should support Info in their Documentation GUIs AFAIR.
2020-12-21T12:47:40 < Steffanx> What about your lovely Windows users PaulFertser 
2020-12-21T12:48:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: they can read PDF I guess.
2020-12-21T12:49:19 < Steffanx> When will you purge the html docs from the internet?
2020-12-21T12:50:31 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: should I? There's a big fat warning telling users to pay attention to the version and explaining why they should better be reading the on-line docs. I'm not the one to tell them they must do this or that, I can only give my humble advice.
2020-12-21T12:50:42 < PaulFertser> make dsk
2020-12-21T12:51:20 < Steffanx> PaulFertser:  warning?
2020-12-21T12:51:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, that the version they're reading in the web browser might be not matching the binary they are using.
2020-12-21T12:52:07 < skz81> Did you saw how crowded were london train stations this week end ? Will be surprized if it doesn't have some consequences...
2020-12-21T12:53:14 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: Oooh that warning with "display: none" 
2020-12-21T12:53:30 < jadew> skz81, you still have the image of people dying on the street that we got from china, but that was all fake
2020-12-21T12:54:32 < Steffanx> The docs doesnt even show a version number :(
2020-12-21T12:55:05 < Steffanx> Stop trolling PaulFertser  :P
2020-12-21T12:55:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: please check DOM attributes yourself here: http://openocd.org/documentation/
2020-12-21T12:56:37 < mawk> I never landed on that page personally
2020-12-21T12:57:15 < PaulFertser> mawk: well, it's the only page referenced from the main website page. How did you get to that other page you ended up looking on?
2020-12-21T12:57:24 < mawk> from google
2020-12-21T12:57:26 < jpa-> weird people, googling direct links instead of going through index
2020-12-21T12:57:31 < Steffanx> Google. Like everyone 
2020-12-21T12:57:40 < mawk> https://www.google.com/search?q=openocd+rtt
2020-12-21T12:57:52 < jpa-> but documentation versions not matching is such a common thing that no need to put warning on every page :)
2020-12-21T12:58:08 < Steffanx> For openocd.. yeah indeed jpa- 
2020-12-21T12:58:15 < jpa-> for everything
2020-12-21T12:58:19 < Steffanx> Or maybe open sores in general
2020-12-21T12:58:20 < mawk> i ordered this product with others (order number 76355107) but the banggood staff (Phoebe Li) is refusing to send to my city in australia. at first i thought it was an accident and i tied to help help her, but she keeps refusing to send to my city. it had been over a week with many emails and she still not sending. i believe she is scamming me. her email is "order@banggood.com". also i cannot
2020-12-21T12:58:21 < mawk> contact any other banggood staff even when i request another person. i believe Banggood is a scam and i am
2020-12-21T12:58:33 < mawk> banggood conspiracy
2020-12-21T12:58:36 < jpa-> though the fact of not having new releases for 3 years does make it worse for openocd :)
2020-12-21T12:58:38 < mawk> the guy got liquidated mid-phrase
2020-12-21T13:03:12 < PaulFertser> jpa-: you can test 0.11.0-rc1 now
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2020-12-21T14:00:34 < Steffanx> But... RTT mawk? Why RTT?
2020-12-21T14:11:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: any other sane way to debug nrf52?
2020-12-21T14:23:48 < Steffanx> Heh PaulFertser . A day or so mawk asked the same. So now i wonder why he decided to go with Ar Tea Tea
2020-12-21T14:24:35 < mawk> just trying it Steffanx 
2020-12-21T14:26:46 < Steffanx> Aha i see
2020-12-21T14:29:43 < mawk> not as convenient as uart I think
2020-12-21T14:29:52 < Steffanx> In the end it is
2020-12-21T14:29:56 < mawk> no
2020-12-21T14:29:59 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-21T14:30:07 < mawk> I recompile my application, rtt control block changes location
2020-12-21T14:30:09 < mawk> ugly
2020-12-21T14:30:16 < mawk> that doesn't happen with uart
2020-12-21T14:30:18 < Steffanx> You dont have to sacrifice your uart
2020-12-21T14:30:33 < mawk> it was supposed to get rid of cables
2020-12-21T14:31:02 < Steffanx> SEGGER tools try to find the location automagically
2020-12-21T14:31:12 < mawk> openocd too
2020-12-21T14:31:16 < mawk> but I have to reoad it
2020-12-21T14:31:26 < mawk> with segger too
2020-12-21T14:31:40 < Steffanx> Aha. So go with linker magic and put it into a fixed spot
2020-12-21T14:32:23 < mawk> still needs reloading
2020-12-21T14:32:45 < Steffanx> Ok
2020-12-21T14:33:02 < Steffanx> Add it to your makefile
2020-12-21T14:33:22 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201221124808523.png
2020-12-21T14:33:36 < mawk> with openocd
2020-12-21T14:34:56 < Steffanx> Thanks
2020-12-21T14:35:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's easy to explain: nrf51/52 use a "softcore" to handle radio, so normal OCD is complicated and their SDK offers debugging interaction via RTT instead by default.
2020-12-21T14:38:46 < Steffanx> But thats not mawks reason
2020-12-21T14:38:55 < mawk> a bit
2020-12-21T14:39:07 < mawk> I wanted to see debugging message of the bootloader binary blob
2020-12-21T14:39:09 < mawk> and it's rtt only
2020-12-21T14:39:31 < mawk> because there is no designated pin like for uart, they don't have a choice
2020-12-21T14:39:51 < mawk> any number of board could wire things differently, it's not like ST with always the same pins for uart
2020-12-21T14:52:08 < mawk> can you believe Steffanx 
2020-12-21T14:52:13 < mawk> I fixed the bootloader of nordic
2020-12-21T14:52:23 < Steffanx> Was it broken?
2020-12-21T14:52:29 < mawk> bootloader, the supposedly most critical component so that the device doesn't turn in a brick
2020-12-21T14:52:31 < mawk> yes
2020-12-21T14:52:43 < mawk> the "set stack, jump" issue
2020-12-21T14:54:15 < mawk> __asm__ volatile ("msr MSP, %0\n\tbx %1\n" :: "r" (new_msp), "r" (reset_handler));
2020-12-21T14:54:16 < mawk> easy fix
2020-12-21T14:56:25 < Steffanx> for(;;) {}
2020-12-21T14:57:37 < mawk> why
2020-12-21T14:57:39 < mawk> stack is changed
2020-12-21T14:57:43 < mawk> function cannot return
2020-12-21T14:57:47 < mawk> no need for for(;;);
2020-12-21T14:57:51 < Steffanx> Haha I know
2020-12-21T14:57:54 < mawk> but I added it anyway to silence gcc*
2020-12-21T14:58:08 < Steffanx> No you didnt
2020-12-21T14:58:08 < mawk> stupid gcc, cannot decode inline assembly by itself
2020-12-21T14:58:11 < mawk> yes I did
2020-12-21T14:58:18 < Steffanx> 🤣
2020-12-21T14:58:21 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201221135819586.png
2020-12-21T14:59:05 < Steffanx> What about aesthetics?
2020-12-21T14:59:16 < mawk> it is aesthetic
2020-12-21T14:59:27 < mawk> for (;;) it's a nice smiley
2020-12-21T14:59:56 < mawk> I had to add it because of __attribute__((__noreturn__)) and gcc that thought it still returned
2020-12-21T15:00:36 < mawk> __asm__ (".L%=:\n\tb .L%=" ::);
2020-12-21T15:00:41 < mawk> that's the pro version of for(;;);
2020-12-21T15:01:58 < mawk> they provide a __set_MSP function for real
2020-12-21T15:02:04 < mawk> there is never a valid way to set it from c
2020-12-21T15:02:14 < mawk> it's even in the cmsis headers
2020-12-21T15:02:25 < mawk> gcc used to allow to clobber stack pointer but not anymore
2020-12-21T15:02:33 < mawk> and they don't even clobber stack pointer in that macro anyway
2020-12-21T15:04:13 < mawk> and I fixed the mbr/bootloader hardfault issue all by magic; now I can have interrupts, and I can try to enable this softdevice thing and do bluetooth
2020-12-21T15:04:37 < zyp> mawk, why do you bother with msp?
2020-12-21T15:04:55 < mawk> how would you do to set the stack?
2020-12-21T15:05:03 < zyp> ldr sp
2020-12-21T15:05:11 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/bootloader.cpp#n22
2020-12-21T15:06:31 < mawk> irq code is supposed to run on MSP right?
2020-12-21T15:06:42 < mawk> but probably nobody uses PSP
2020-12-21T15:06:58 < mawk> but anyway I just copied the code that was in that bootloader before, I just fixed it
2020-12-21T15:07:04 < zyp> you were talking a bootloader switch?
2020-12-21T15:07:26 < mawk> yes
2020-12-21T15:07:36 < mawk> yeah I guess it's not really irq
2020-12-21T15:07:41 < mawk> it's just reset handler
2020-12-21T15:08:16 < zyp> I find that when switching from bootloader to app, you want to keep the same state as when the hardware is fresh out of reset, which is not using psp at all, just msp for everything
2020-12-21T15:08:29 < zyp> and when sp=msp, you don't need to refer to msp explicitly
2020-12-21T15:08:57 < mawk> I see
2020-12-21T15:11:33 < mawk> yeah I don't know why they used MSP here
2020-12-21T15:11:44 < mawk> how do you switch also? you can set control directly?
2020-12-21T15:11:55 < zyp> the point of msp vs psp is that you can have all ISRs run on the same stack referred to by msp, while each thread has their own stack referred to by psp, and the advantage of doing it this way is that you don't have to allocate enough stack for ISRs on every thread stack
2020-12-21T15:11:58 < mawk> yeah apparently they set control to 0 right before so it's alway smsp
2020-12-21T15:12:11 < mawk> yes I see
2020-12-21T15:12:15 < mawk> it's like on x86
2020-12-21T15:12:29 < zyp> so generally psp usage is enabled when the thread scheduler is started
2020-12-21T15:13:02 < zyp> ISR entry switches to msp automatically, and EXC_RETURN switches back to psp
2020-12-21T15:14:06 < mawk> this exc_return is an ugly hack a biyt
2020-12-21T15:14:08 < mawk> -y
2020-12-21T15:14:16 < mawk> just so that you can define your isr in plain C
2020-12-21T15:15:14 < zyp> I don't think it's ugly, I think it's super nice
2020-12-21T15:15:56 < mawk> for the developer it's super nice
2020-12-21T15:16:08 < zyp> efficient too
2020-12-21T15:16:17 < mawk> ah yes return 0xFFFFFFF9 for returning to thread mode with msp, and 0xFFFFFFFD for psp
2020-12-21T15:17:14 < zyp> since it fits in well with the whole link register pattern with tail call optimization
2020-12-21T15:19:04 < zyp> EXC_RETURN goes into lr, ISR tail calls a function that tail calls a function that does the push {blah, blah, lr} … pop {blah, blah, pc} pattern, and returns directly without having to jump back along the call stack
2020-12-21T15:20:23 < mawk> yeah
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2020-12-21T15:51:27 < Steffanx> Your boss will be happy you fixed this, Mawk ;)
2020-12-21T15:51:36 < mawk> lol
2020-12-21T15:52:01 < mawk> it's christmas week
2020-12-21T15:52:05 < mawk> I do what I want
2020-12-21T15:52:06 < mawk> right?
2020-12-21T15:52:20 < Steffanx> Same as the weeks before right?
2020-12-21T15:52:29 < mawk> lol
2020-12-21T16:12:48 < mawk> I fixed rtt control block with ugly linker scripting
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2020-12-21T16:14:31 < mawk> this softdevice thing is quite ugly to get the memory layout right
2020-12-21T16:14:58 < mawk> official docs say "look in release notes to know where to put your application in flash, and for ram you need to query at runtime the softdevice to know its ram footprint"
2020-12-21T16:15:06 < mawk> then when you query it you can put it in your linker script
2020-12-21T16:19:19 < jpa-> i haven't needed to put anything in linker script, but i have nrf_sdh_ble_default_cfg_set(1, &ram_start) to get some weird value and nrf_sdh_ble_enable(&ram_start) to do something weird
2020-12-21T16:21:32 < mawk> have you used a heap?
2020-12-21T16:21:40 < jpa-> no
2020-12-21T16:21:46 < mawk> yeah then you're fine probably
2020-12-21T16:21:56 < mawk> the issue is that softdevice uses the bottom of ram, near 0x200000000 or whatever
2020-12-21T16:22:05 < mawk> so if you don't tell your linker to not use it, it can use it
2020-12-21T16:22:08 < jpa-> i guess the ram origin might need to be changed from default if one wants to optimize ram usage or softdevice bloats a lot
2020-12-21T16:22:43 < jpa-> yeah i have   RAM (rwx) :  ORIGIN = 0x20006000, LENGTH = 0xa000
2020-12-21T16:22:50 < mawk> ah yeah you jsut put a safe value I see
2020-12-21T16:23:03 < jpa-> so apparently 24kB for softdevice
2020-12-21T16:23:09 < jpa-> yeah, it just came from some example
2020-12-21T17:18:49 < qyx> 4L not enough, starting to abuse +1V8 to route signals :S
2020-12-21T17:24:46 < jpa-> go 6L
2020-12-21T17:28:43 < qyx> not cheap enuff :S
2020-12-21T17:29:31 < jpa-> go airwires
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2020-12-21T19:28:22 < qyx> sounds innovative
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2020-12-21T19:34:13 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm stupid question, having a pretty noob problem to deal with... Trying to call a function thats written bellow where im trying to call it from. Before i try and come up with a really awkward solusion to this is there anyway to set forward anotation to work at compile?
2020-12-21T19:35:50 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: yes, it's called a function prototype.
2020-12-21T19:35:59 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm?
2020-12-21T19:36:05 < Mangy_Dog> i think i need to read up on this
2020-12-21T19:36:15 < Mangy_Dog> i really was expecting to hear some one say no
2020-12-21T19:36:16 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-12-21T19:38:11 < Mangy_Dog> ok so basically have a list of functions with there inputs if any at the top and redeclare it down bellow with the actual code
2020-12-21T19:38:57 < Mangy_Dog> this would also explain why i really should be splitting my modules into .c and .h files rather than just .h
2020-12-21T19:41:49 < emeb> yes. yes it would.
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2020-12-21T19:51:52 < BrainDamage> https://www.redbubble.com/i/throw-pillow/Forbidden-Li-on-Pillow-by-snwball/40944007.5X2YF
2020-12-21T19:53:19 < englishman> lol
2020-12-21T19:58:33 < Mangy_Dog> ok soo new issue here...
2020-12-21T19:58:38 < Mangy_Dog> the thing i need to prottype is a class
2020-12-21T19:59:10 < Mangy_Dog> but when I prottype it, and then declare the task later it gives me a redefinision error
2020-12-21T20:01:46 < Mangy_Dog> if i just declare the class on its own, that works with the redefinition but the funtion calls dont work
2020-12-21T20:01:50 < Mangy_Dog> not found
2020-12-21T20:05:03 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: that's another thing, called class forward declaration.
2020-12-21T20:05:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: if you need just a pointer to it or something like that.
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2020-12-21T20:06:08 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: or you declare all class members in a header and then define them in a separate unit (.cpp file)
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2020-12-21T20:08:57 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
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2020-12-21T20:13:47 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: separate the class declaration from definition
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2020-12-21T20:13:56 < Mangy_Dog> trying that now
2020-12-21T20:14:02 < mawk> put class YourClass { /*prototypes here*/ }; in a .h file
2020-12-21T20:14:10 < mawk> then definition in the .c
2020-12-21T20:14:16 < mawk> then whenever you need the class just include it
2020-12-21T20:19:53 < BrainDamage> you might need a headerguard if you're not careful of #include loops
2020-12-21T20:20:35 < Mangy_Dog> its got if defs
2020-12-21T20:20:44 < Mangy_Dog> still trying to figure this out
2020-12-21T20:22:40 < mawk> #pragma once ftw
2020-12-21T20:25:37 < Steffanx>  Mawk using non-standard functionality 
2020-12-21T20:25:43 < Steffanx> 😱
2020-12-21T20:25:45 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-21T20:25:54 < mawk> did you ever say me I like portability?
2020-12-21T20:25:59 < mawk> I like gnu extensions
2020-12-21T20:26:05 < mawk> it makes the coolest code
2020-12-21T20:38:32 < BrainDamage> xmas comes early here, the 24 the vaccine gets imported with the army
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2020-12-21T20:44:21 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/790650871582031912/unknown.png
2020-12-21T20:44:24 < Mangy_Dog> what am i doing wrong here
2020-12-21T20:44:26 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-12-21T20:44:40 < Mangy_Dog> Im getting member decliration not found on the tricorder::tricorder
2020-12-21T20:47:45 < jpa-> good thing that you have nice header comments on the class already
2020-12-21T20:48:10 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-12-21T20:48:23 < jadew> <Mangy_Dog> what am i doing wrong here
2020-12-21T20:48:29 < jadew> #include <Arduino.h>
2020-12-21T20:48:38 < Mangy_Dog> yes it uses a arduino based core
2020-12-21T20:48:47 < Mangy_Dog> so sue me
2020-12-21T20:48:53  * jadew sues
2020-12-21T20:49:10 < jpa-> if you are also using the arduino build rules, they do some weird non-standard mess that could be causing the error
2020-12-21T20:49:33 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, C++ is case sensitive
2020-12-21T20:49:35 < Mangy_Dog> well i was using a adafruit library as a reference of how to lay out the class in the header
2020-12-21T20:49:55 < Mangy_Dog> yeah jade?
2020-12-21T20:50:02 < jadew> you said tricorder
2020-12-21T20:50:03 < Mangy_Dog> far as i can see im matching case
2020-12-21T20:50:06 < Mangy_Dog> in here i said it
2020-12-21T20:50:10 < Mangy_Dog> being lazy
2020-12-21T20:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> in the screen grab
2020-12-21T20:50:18 < Mangy_Dog> its matching
2020-12-21T20:50:21 < jpa-> though "member declaration not found" is apparently just some eclipse error and not real compiler error
2020-12-21T20:50:28 < jadew> ah, didn't look at the cpp file
2020-12-21T20:50:41 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-12-21T20:50:50 < jadew> oh, it could be its intellisense thing?
2020-12-21T20:51:06 < jpa-> maybe it just can't find your headers or something
2020-12-21T20:51:10 < jadew> Mangy_Dog, you're getting that when compiling?
2020-12-21T20:51:11 < jpa-> try actually compiling it
2020-12-21T20:51:15 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-12-21T20:51:17 < Mangy_Dog> i am
2020-12-21T20:51:26 < jpa-> so, what is the actual compiler error message?
2020-12-21T20:52:10 < Mangy_Dog> numerous
2020-12-21T20:52:21 < Mangy_Dog> there might actually be some other errors being formed because of this not working
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2020-12-21T20:52:25 < Mangy_Dog> well
2020-12-21T20:52:28 < Mangy_Dog> there will be
2020-12-21T20:52:55 < jpa-> as usual, look only at the first one
2020-12-21T20:53:06 < Mangy_Dog> mostly tricorder was not declared in this scope... as the class call is waiting for this to be fixed now
2020-12-21T20:53:24 < jpa-> if you want to get rid of the red squiggles, try fixing eclipse include path
2020-12-21T20:53:27 < jadew> does it say anything about not finding the tricorderClass.h?
2020-12-21T20:54:04 < jadew> you sign your code with your nickname?
2020-12-21T20:54:08 < Mangy_Dog> cant see anything no
2020-12-21T20:54:11 < jadew> what's the point in signing?
2020-12-21T20:54:29 < Mangy_Dog> thats autoed by eclipse
2020-12-21T20:54:32 < jadew> ah
2020-12-21T20:54:44 < jadew> try to compile just that file
2020-12-21T20:54:44 < Mangy_Dog> when i create class and deader...
2020-12-21T20:54:46 < jadew> the cpp one
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2020-12-21T20:54:55 < jadew> and see how that goes
2020-12-21T20:54:57 < jadew> it should compile
2020-12-21T20:55:02 < Mangy_Dog> i cant just compile that file
2020-12-21T20:55:09 < jadew> sure you can
2020-12-21T20:55:13 < jadew> look up the commands
2020-12-21T20:55:15 < Mangy_Dog> I can only compile the project as a whole
2020-12-21T20:55:39 < jadew> ctrl f7 or something
2020-12-21T20:56:47 < Mangy_Dog> thats for switching view
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2020-12-21T21:43:51 < Mangy_Dog> im really struggling to get this working :/
2020-12-21T21:43:59 < Mangy_Dog> so they need to be in there own folder together or something strange
2020-12-21T21:44:00 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-12-21T21:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> or in the root folder?
2020-12-21T21:46:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: you need to read the Error message
2020-12-21T21:50:27 < Mangy_Dog> just Member declaration not found
2020-12-21T21:51:15 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: is it present in the .h file? What line do you have in the header and what line exactly does it complain about? And do you include the header file in your .cpp implementation file?
2020-12-21T21:58:03 < mawk> Steffanx: https://paste.serveur.io/Yn2HdiYK.sh
2020-12-21T21:58:05 < mawk> my flash.sh
2020-12-21T21:58:08 < mawk> using openocd
2020-12-21T22:11:20 < Steffanx> wonderful
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2020-12-21T23:52:54 < kakium69> hello night crew
2020-12-21T23:53:18 < karlp> Steffanx: #pragma once is actually pretty standard
2020-12-21T23:53:27 < karlp> hang on, I'm reading in the past...
2020-12-21T23:53:33 < karlp> nice pillow BrainDamage :)
2020-12-21T23:53:40 < Steffanx> Haha, but not C standard, karlp
2020-12-21T23:53:46 < fenugrec> #pragma once is also not standard
2020-12-21T23:57:05 < Mangy_Dog> FUCKING ECLIPSE
2020-12-21T23:57:14 < qyx> we are not using compilers of the past
2020-12-21T23:57:28 < Mangy_Dog> So that issue ive been having with my class not being found when trying to run with a cpp and header
2020-12-21T23:57:32 < Mangy_Dog> fucking eclipse bug
2020-12-21T23:57:38 < qyx> and if something is supported by 95% of them, it becomes a defacto standard
2020-12-21T23:57:44 < Mangy_Dog> ran an update... and then could refresh the index and it worked
2020-12-21T23:57:56 < Mangy_Dog> wasted too many hours trying to figure that out
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--- Day changed Tue Dec 22 2020
2020-12-22T00:00:13 < machinehum> I still run the borland c compiler get your #pragma shit outta here
2020-12-22T00:00:49 < kakium69> get your pragma shit out the door
2020-12-22T00:00:53 < kakium69> running gcc here
2020-12-22T00:01:54 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog:  ... people here told you
2020-12-22T00:02:03 < machinehum> I wonder if holy c supports #pragma
2020-12-22T00:03:11 < Mangy_Dog> i did check the linker file it was listed
2020-12-22T00:03:24 < Mangy_Dog> but it appeared to be a bug and i ran a update
2020-12-22T00:03:29 < Mangy_Dog> including updating cdt
2020-12-22T00:03:34 < Mangy_Dog> working now
2020-12-22T00:03:46 < Mangy_Dog> now i need to rebuild and uncomment out my code to make it working
2020-12-22T00:07:04 < machinehum> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3mh2v0/x86_64_holyc_compilerassemblerunassembler_for/
2020-12-22T00:07:59 < qyx> don't be such pragma machinehum 
2020-12-22T00:09:14 < effractur> rip terry
2020-12-22T00:23:17 < Steffanx> Terry aint dead
2020-12-22T00:26:34 < Mangy_Dog> whos terry? D:
2020-12-22T00:27:21 < effractur> the guy of templeos
2020-12-22T00:27:25 < effractur> and holy C
2020-12-22T00:30:26 < karlp> fenugrec: find a compile that doesn't actualyl support #pragma once though...
2020-12-22T00:30:46 < karlp> it's a fuck load nicer than #ifndef, #def, #endif splatter
2020-12-22T00:41:36 < fenugrec> karlp, apparently gcc <3.4 so... weird / old targets maybe
2020-12-22T00:43:09 < fenugrec> but yea, it's defacto by now
2020-12-22T00:45:46 < fenugrec> interesting read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragma_once#Caveats
2020-12-22T00:47:55 < karlp> that basically says, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" and then talks about using include guards for doing conditional compiles, which I don't realyl think is a caveat...
2020-12-22T00:48:15 < karlp> it's not like you're goign to use pragma once if you mean "maybe this bit, or that other bit..."
2020-12-22T00:49:05 < karlp> also, win for #pragma once, it doesnt' confuse doxygen's importing...
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2020-12-22T01:29:46 < machinehum> #pragma twice
2020-12-22T01:29:53 < machinehum> Easy to get the syntax confused
2020-12-22T01:29:59 < machinehum> That's a negative for sure
2020-12-22T01:30:24 < machinehum> What's the state of buying drugs on the internet these days alphabay is gone where's the next best or whatever
2020-12-22T01:30:48 < karlp> hrm, is lpddr always much more expensive?
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2020-12-22T01:42:15 < fenugrec> alphabay ? is that the honeypot that succeeded silkroads
2020-12-22T01:43:28 < kakium69> I have missed out the buying drugs from dark web thing
2020-12-22T01:44:15 < kakium69> how convinient
2020-12-22T01:55:34 < Steffanx> Ask mawk, machinehum 
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2020-12-22T02:06:46 < mawk> still very easy machinehum 
2020-12-22T02:06:49 < mawk> you want sites?
2020-12-22T02:09:18 < Steffanx> Serveur.io?
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2020-12-22T02:12:38  * Laurenceb is n00bing
2020-12-22T02:12:54 < Laurenceb> how do I configure grub to find my install?
2020-12-22T02:13:06 < mawk> efi?
2020-12-22T02:13:07 < mawk> or bios?
2020-12-22T02:14:08 < mawk> there is the update-grub command to generate grub.cfg config file from the currently running OS and all OS found on hard drives Laurenceb 
2020-12-22T02:14:17 < mawk> then the grub-install command to install grub to the efi partition
2020-12-22T02:14:24 < mawk> or to the boot sector if you have bios
2020-12-22T02:16:11 < Laurenceb> bios
2020-12-22T02:16:25 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-12-22T02:16:30 < mawk> bios? why?
2020-12-22T02:16:36 < mawk> what century is your pc Laurenceb ?
2020-12-22T02:16:40 < mawk> just enable efi mode already
2020-12-22T02:16:44 < Laurenceb> old machine 
2020-12-22T02:16:44 < mawk> stop messing around
2020-12-22T02:17:02 < Laurenceb> hmm grub-install doesnt find it
2020-12-22T02:17:33 < mawk> find what
2020-12-22T02:17:37 < mawk> did you make the grub config?
2020-12-22T02:17:42 < mawk> you need to supply proper arguments
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2020-12-22T02:17:48 < mawk> Laurenceb: please show dump of fdisk -l 
2020-12-22T02:19:09 < mawk> Laurenceb: quick
2020-12-22T02:19:36 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/HEvzBgKF
2020-12-22T02:19:41 < zyp> is this grub1 or grub2? :p
2020-12-22T02:19:54 < Laurenceb> dev/sda8 is where my image is
2020-12-22T02:20:47 < mawk> what do you call image?
2020-12-22T02:20:57 < mawk> that's one fucked up partition table
2020-12-22T02:21:23 < mawk> so Laurenceb what are you calling image
2020-12-22T02:21:35 < mawk> it's not grub-install's job to detect OSes
2020-12-22T02:21:41 < mawk> as I said it's update-grub
2020-12-22T02:23:26 < Laurenceb> do I have to mount the partition first?
2020-12-22T02:23:30 < Laurenceb> before running update-grub
2020-12-22T02:23:52 < mawk> I think 
2020-12-22T02:24:58 < Laurenceb> ok wut
2020-12-22T02:25:08 < Laurenceb> there is no lunix image in /boot/
2020-12-22T02:25:14 < Laurenceb> on the linux mint iso image
2020-12-22T02:25:32 < mawk> so what?
2020-12-22T02:25:38 < Laurenceb> hmf
2020-12-22T02:25:43 < mawk> the iso isn't the full syste
2020-12-22T02:25:52 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2020-12-22T02:26:05 < Laurenceb> wait
2020-12-22T02:26:14 < Laurenceb> so on boot I should tell bios to boot to the partition?
2020-12-22T02:26:32 < Laurenceb> I put the disc image on /dev/sda8 with intention to boot it
2020-12-22T02:26:39 < Laurenceb> then install to /dev/sda7
2020-12-22T02:26:43 < mawk> wait what did you do?
2020-12-22T02:26:53 < mawk> you copied a iso to a partition?
2020-12-22T02:26:55 < Laurenceb> /dev/sda8 is the iso
2020-12-22T02:26:59 < mawk> why?
2020-12-22T02:27:02 < Laurenceb> yeah as an image using dd
2020-12-22T02:27:04 < mawk> you don't have a cd drive?
2020-12-22T02:27:07 < Laurenceb> nope
2020-12-22T02:27:16 < mawk> and it doesn't support usb boot?
2020-12-22T02:27:27 < Laurenceb> I only have a glitchy usb drive
2020-12-22T02:27:33 < Laurenceb> that I dont trust
2020-12-22T02:27:49 < mawk> partition 8 is maybe a bit far from the top to be able to be booted, I'm not sure
2020-12-22T02:27:49 < Laurenceb> my idea was to stick it on a partition then boot from that...
2020-12-22T02:27:54 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-22T02:28:00 < mawk> but yeah are you are right now, just go to bios settings and try
2020-12-22T02:28:03 < Laurenceb> should I try the bios
2020-12-22T02:28:04 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-12-22T02:28:10 < Laurenceb> bbl time ot shut down
2020-12-22T02:33:23 < Steffanx> Go out and buy a new usb drive in the local wallmart
2020-12-22T02:34:20 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmx6zUJiiVg
2020-12-22T02:35:04 < kakium69> Laurenceb: just pull the drive out and connect it via propper bus to your computer
2020-12-22T02:35:04 < Steffanx> Luckily you are out star kakium69 
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2020-12-22T02:54:44 < R2COM> outlook does not work at all on ipad
2020-12-22T02:54:48 < R2COM> what a shit product MS makes
2020-12-22T02:57:33 < kakium69> 8)
2020-12-22T02:57:49 < R2COM> stupid ass H1B immigrant programmers
2020-12-22T02:57:59 < R2COM> you dont expect much when organizations hire shit from all over the world
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2020-12-22T03:10:44 < R2COM> mawk which linux distro you run
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2020-12-22T04:33:50 < GenTooMan> I wouldn't blame the H1B person so much as the people who thought that hiring them instead of doing things correctly was a good idea. People who take short cuts are obsessed over the wrong things, they do kill people often too.
2020-12-22T04:40:02 < R2COM> dIvErSiTy aNd InClUsIoN
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2020-12-22T04:50:27 < GenTooMan> hmm I don't think that's the real reason for their absurd behaviour. If they get someone they can fire in a heart beat and make them work like slaves so they don't get deported it's "great" but the cost for the person is pretty high. Those people are abusing other people, and see themselves as "great".
2020-12-22T04:54:00 < GenTooMan> I prefer to treat people ... as people.
2020-12-22T04:54:03 < GenTooMan> :D
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2020-12-22T05:01:14 < machinehum> mawk: Yeah what's a half decent one
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2020-12-22T09:55:04 < mawk> R2COM: debian
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2020-12-22T15:54:31 < Steffanx> hm
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2020-12-22T15:56:09 < mawk> hmm
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2020-12-22T15:57:36 < mawk> hmm hmm
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2020-12-22T16:45:50 < kakium69> hello dear
2020-12-22T16:47:14 < Steffanx> Hi sweetheart, how was your day.
2020-12-22T16:52:47 < Steffanx> .
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2020-12-22T17:15:46 < bitmask> oops, just spent 300 bucks on a fain for a fume hood/airbrush booth and a bunch of mica pigments for epoxy
2020-12-22T17:20:34 < Steffanx> ok
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2020-12-22T17:20:57 < Laurenceb> sup
2020-12-22T17:21:14  * Laurenceb is still trying to fix old craptop
2020-12-22T17:21:19 < Steffanx> moneyed westener bitmask
2020-12-22T17:21:36 < Laurenceb> is it possible to make a logical partition within an extended partition bootable?
2020-12-22T17:21:49 < bitmask> just spending my new stimulus monies before I get it :P
2020-12-22T17:22:23 < bitmask> also gonna get an airbrush and compressor/tank
2020-12-22T17:26:51 < Laurenceb> boot partition needs to be a primary partition for the bios to find it?
2020-12-22T17:28:04 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: are you mad? Why do you even consider booting in non-UEFI mode?
2020-12-22T17:28:15 < Laurenceb> old laptop
2020-12-22T17:28:24 < PaulFertser> How old is the laptop?
2020-12-22T17:28:31 < Laurenceb> looks like I can use grub command line to do this?
2020-12-22T17:28:33 < Laurenceb> 2007
2020-12-22T17:29:11 < Laurenceb> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/259069/how-to-start-a-windows-partition-from-the-grub-command-line
2020-12-22T17:29:13 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: bios doesn't parse partition table, it just fetches first 512 bytes and runs.
2020-12-22T17:29:27 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-22T17:29:46 < Laurenceb> so what does the "mark partition as boot" thing in gparted do?
2020-12-22T17:29:50 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: MBR from 
2020-12-22T17:30:07 < PaulFertser> MS-DOS does pay attention to that boot flag.
2020-12-22T17:30:40 < PaulFertser> I disassembled it back in the days.
2020-12-22T17:31:04 < PaulFertser> But if you install first stage of GRUB there it probably won't care about the stupid flags.
2020-12-22T17:31:18 < Laurenceb> yeah atm when I boot I get to grub
2020-12-22T17:31:39 < PaulFertser> So
2020-12-22T17:31:46 < PaulFertser> fix your grub config
2020-12-22T17:31:54 < Laurenceb> so if I enter grub command line I can force it to boot from where I want?
2020-12-22T17:32:02 < PaulFertser> Sure.
2020-12-22T17:32:14 < Laurenceb> I have a live dvd image on a logical partition
2020-12-22T17:32:21 < Laurenceb> so I want it to boot from there
2020-12-22T17:32:56 < Laurenceb> set root=(hd0,<x>)  
2020-12-22T17:33:01 < Laurenceb> ^that business?
2020-12-22T17:36:02 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: kinda, I do not know it all by heart, and I do not remember booting dvd images ever.
2020-12-22T17:36:39 < Laurenceb> it should be possible in theory tho?
2020-12-22T17:36:48 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: open manual from the matching grub version and proceed with giving the right commands, boot flag is certainly irrelevant at this point.
2020-12-22T17:37:03 < Laurenceb> ok
2020-12-22T17:37:20 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: do you basically want to chainload a dvd image?
2020-12-22T17:37:36 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-22T17:37:43 < PaulFertser> Why though?
2020-12-22T17:37:54 < Laurenceb> then install it to another partition
2020-12-22T17:38:00 < Laurenceb> no working dvd drive
2020-12-22T17:38:32 < Laurenceb> also all shops closed and no working deliveries in uk right now
2020-12-22T17:38:38 < Laurenceb> its chaos atm
2020-12-22T17:38:58 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: are you trying to boot a windows dvd?
2020-12-22T17:39:14 < Laurenceb> no, linux mint
2020-12-22T17:40:09 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you should be able to boot its kernel and initramfs directly, without chainloading. Is it grub2 or legacy?
2020-12-22T17:40:23 < PaulFertser> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2/Chainloading
2020-12-22T17:41:50 < Laurenceb> oh so that can just take the image file
2020-12-22T17:42:21 < Laurenceb> yeah its grub2
2020-12-22T17:43:12 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: try truecrypt example from there
2020-12-22T17:45:14 < Laurenceb> well I also have the .iso file on the main linux partition
2020-12-22T17:46:46 < Laurenceb> I'll try the ISO Images instructions
2020-12-22T17:46:48 < Laurenceb> thanks
2020-12-22T17:55:15 < Steffanx> These are the moments in like: fuck it, get a usb drive and start from scratch. 
2020-12-22T17:55:55 < Steffanx> why arent you using a usb drive and stop messing with isos on partitions and shit mr Laurenceb?
2020-12-22T17:56:30 < Laurenceb> no usb drivers...
2020-12-22T17:56:38 < Laurenceb> *drives
2020-12-22T17:57:41 < Steffanx> but in the time you worked on this you could have online ordered 15 of them
2020-12-22T17:58:05 < Steffanx> Or did dooling turn you into a poor man
2020-12-22T17:59:19 < Laurenceb> maybe 
2020-12-22T17:59:27 < Steffanx> ok
2020-12-22T17:59:45 < Laurenceb> there is now full lockdown and close to no deliveries here
2020-12-22T18:00:01 < Steffanx> Better start a patreon or sometihng.
2020-12-22T18:00:28 < Steffanx> Heh, here we are locked down too, but all the online shops are open.
2020-12-22T18:01:30 < Steffanx> One shipper said they only ship 1.7 million packages each day (that's one for each 10 persons/day). :D
2020-12-22T18:06:28 < aandrew> my province (Ontario) is oging into full lockdown on the 26th for a month (southern region where I am) and 2w (northern region)
2020-12-22T18:07:09 < Steffanx> What is full? Wallmart is stop open i guess?
2020-12-22T18:07:26 < Steffanx> No online shopping?
2020-12-22T18:08:25 < mawk> nl lockdown is a jok
2020-12-22T18:08:27 < mawk> e
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2020-12-22T18:08:34 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-22T18:09:05 < Steffanx> Because the frenchies dont give a shit
2020-12-22T18:09:05 < Laurenceb> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/15015/how-to-boot-from-iso-with-grub2-burg-boot-loader
2020-12-22T18:09:15 < Laurenceb> this looks too easy
2020-12-22T18:09:32 < Laurenceb> grub-imageboot solves my problem
2020-12-22T18:10:17 < Steffanx> until the next one pops up
2020-12-22T18:18:52 < englishman> https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0273.600.024/bosch
2020-12-22T18:18:53 < englishman> hell yeah
2020-12-22T18:18:56 < englishman> arrow to the rescue
2020-12-22T18:19:58 < Laurenceb> hah
2020-12-22T18:20:03 < Laurenceb> how will babbyshake recover
2020-12-22T18:20:07 < englishman> only 8g tho
2020-12-22T18:20:16 < englishman> but i guess for an instrument in a pelican case thats plenty
2020-12-22T18:22:44 < mawk> you're the pelican
2020-12-22T18:23:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7kdDeGXUjI
2020-12-22T18:28:11 < englishman> https://www.msr.ch/en/product/transportation-shock-data-logger-msr175/
2020-12-22T18:28:15 < englishman> look at this awful swiss crap
2020-12-22T18:28:24 < englishman> bosch shit can be overnighted from arrow for 100 bones
2020-12-22T18:28:31 < englishman> bell yeah <3 bosch <3 arrow
2020-12-22T18:29:07 < englishman> https://www.aspion.de/en/shock-sensor-aspion-g-log-shock-recorder-transport-monitoring-data-logger/
2020-12-22T18:29:10 < englishman> 200eur!
2020-12-22T18:29:11 < englishman> scams
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2020-12-22T18:31:57 < Laurenceb> wtf babbyshake looks sensible now
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2020-12-22T18:41:22 < jpa-> meh, decided to start christmas vacation today; immediately all kinds of interesting parts arrive in mail
2020-12-22T18:41:40 < jpa-> (and all related to work projects)
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2020-12-22T19:08:00 < Steffanx> BE STROOOOOONGGG jpa- 
2020-12-22T19:08:08 < Steffanx> and give in
2020-12-22T19:08:49 < Steffanx> or let your wife take the parts and give the to you as a new years eve present
2020-12-22T19:08:55 < Steffanx> *them
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2020-12-22T19:13:36 < mawk> single pair ethernet looks cool
2020-12-22T19:13:43 < mawk> ethernet with PoE over a pair of wires
2020-12-22T19:14:16 < mawk> with this phy for instance https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dp83td510e.pdf?ts=1602524952891&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FDP83TD510E
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2020-12-22T19:30:51 < Steffanx> > ultra low power -_-
2020-12-22T19:34:09 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-22T19:34:19 < mawk> 100mW is ultra low power
2020-12-22T19:34:22 < mawk> don't you know?
2020-12-22T20:02:15 < qyx> like low power usb hubs drawing only 200 mA
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2020-12-22T20:29:34 < mawk> lol
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2020-12-22T22:37:15 < zyp> mawk, ah, hardware is starting to appear now? nice
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2020-12-22T23:01:11 < qyx> would this work? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kpTdo/Screenshot_2020-12-22_21-59-45.png
2020-12-22T23:02:24 < qyx> gate voltage is biased at 50 V, if 5 Vp-p is applied, it should oscillate between 49.3 V and 54.3 V worst case
2020-12-22T23:02:29 < qyx> regardless of the duty cycle
2020-12-22T23:04:42 < zyp> work for what?
2020-12-22T23:05:05 < qyx> I mean if the reasoning is right
2020-12-22T23:05:25 < qyx> because I have not seen such cap-coupled-gate app yet
2020-12-22T23:06:26 < zyp> isn't it basically how bootstraps work?
2020-12-22T23:09:17 < qyx> hm, no
2020-12-22T23:09:41 < zyp> I mean, no but still
2020-12-22T23:10:32 < qyx> it is probably similar to using a gate transformer
2020-12-22T23:15:52 < jadew> https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/us/college-student-prison-cayman-islands/index.html
2020-12-22T23:18:23 < Steffanx> oops
2020-12-22T23:21:26 < qyx> uhm
2020-12-22T23:21:39 < qyx> we don't have so many free places in prisons
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2020-12-23T00:24:34 < karlp> is it just me, or is it harder to buy ic's and modules on ali these days? only just junk consumer electronics.
2020-12-23T00:26:57  * karlp needs the linux HCI/HCD? end of the bluetooth stack, to be the bt5/mesh end, talking to these stm32bw/nrf52x/esp32 shits
2020-12-23T00:27:20 < karlp> if it's all bt HCI interface, it's entirely up to linux whether it supports bt5 stuff?
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2020-12-23T02:33:00 < dongs> bendor
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2020-12-23T02:50:20 < karlp> hrm, zephyr seems to have firmware for running on an nrf52x to be a HCI over uart/spi/usb for linux
2020-12-23T03:21:34 < karlp> fucking ali rejecting ccards again.
2020-12-23T03:21:37 < karlp> tedious....
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2020-12-23T04:22:53 < machinehum> Is there some spec somewhere for barrel jack power connectors? Or is that shit just full defacto shit
2020-12-23T04:23:11 < machinehum> Also mawk what about the drugs sites
2020-12-23T04:24:28 < machinehum> I wanna say 12V is 2.1mm center positive
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2020-12-23T05:22:18 < englishman> just put whatever barrel jack size you want that fits the ITE brick you supply and make sure your shit is -30V to +30V protected. also dont forget iec 60950 has been replaced with iec 62368
2020-12-23T05:24:13 < aandrew> machinehum: I've never seen any such standard. 2.1, 2.5, 1.9(? I think) have all carried 5/7.5/12/15/24/48V DC, center positive or negative, as well as AC
2020-12-23T05:31:47 < englishman> is 48V that common?
2020-12-23T05:32:14 < Ultrasauce> every 48V one i've seen is 5.5? the wider one
2020-12-23T05:32:25 < Ultrasauce> very common for PoE switches etc
2020-12-23T05:32:29 < englishman> ah
2020-12-23T05:32:46 < englishman> isnt 5.5mm the outer barrel and p standard
2020-12-23T05:32:59 < englishman> like 2.5x5.5 is the most common followed by 2.1x5.5
2020-12-23T05:33:31 < englishman> i guess +-50V protection isnt that much more expensive than +-30V
2020-12-23T05:33:44 < englishman> i use some LTC part thats good to +-60
2020-12-23T05:34:06 < englishman> with 3-resistor divider to select OV/UV
2020-12-23T05:34:32 < Ultrasauce> 6.5x3mm is what i was thinking of
2020-12-23T05:35:17 < machinehum> aandrew: heh
2020-12-23T05:35:33 < machinehum> ty
2020-12-23T05:46:42 < englishman> https://landing.coolermaster.com/kfconsole/
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2020-12-23T07:11:31 < englishman> https://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-2905513-pn-3458A/digital-multimeter-8-digit
2020-12-23T07:11:45 < englishman> so this DMM is unchanged since the 90s. it was sold under the HP and Agilent names
2020-12-23T07:11:57 < englishman> yet, it is far better than any DMM available today
2020-12-23T07:12:05 < englishman> how does that work
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2020-12-23T08:18:39 < jadew> englishman, the people who designed it knew what they were doing, and the team might have been disbanded
2020-12-23T08:22:32 < jadew> also, it's pretty big, new ones are half that in width so they might not be able to put enough space between things
2020-12-23T08:26:02 < jpa-> to me it appears that 3458A has been redesigned many times, with improved memory capacity and faster speed; they've just kept the product number  https://xdevs.com/fix/hp3458a/#a5rev
2020-12-23T08:28:38 < jadew> did they only change the digital section?
2020-12-23T08:28:55 < jpa-> no, the ADC board and others listed on that page have many revisions also
2020-12-23T08:29:07 < jpa-> but they've kept quite good compatibility between modules apparently
2020-12-23T08:30:42 < jadew> is there another 8.5 digits DMM in a smaller format?
2020-12-23T08:31:49 < jpa-> https://www.tek.com/tektronix-and-keithley-digital-multimeter/keithley-2002-series-8%C2%BD-digit-multimeter-scanning
2020-12-23T08:32:14 < jadew> so it's doable
2020-12-23T08:32:42 < jadew> we'd have to compare the specs to know for sure, but I bet they're close
2020-12-23T08:33:17 < jpa-> certainly, the first photos on the 3458A page show how huge all the parts of it are and how much free space there is with more modern components
2020-12-23T08:33:37 < jadew> yeah, but I think the separation is part of the trick
2020-12-23T08:33:58 < jadew> you put them too close together and you have to deal with temperature gradients
2020-12-23T08:34:02 < jpa-> i'm not sure what makes 3458A "far better" than e.g. keithley 2002 or fluke 8558a, but i haven't ever seen any of them
2020-12-23T08:34:22 < jadew> you'd probably have to talk to a volt nut
2020-12-23T08:35:03 < jadew> I'm happy with .01 V accuracy on most of my measurements
2020-12-23T08:35:27 < jpa-> they are probably full of delicate tricks, otherwise we'd have ebay full of $35 "8.5 Digit Multimeter"s by now
2020-12-23T08:35:39 < jadew> for sure
2020-12-23T08:37:53 < jadew> how do you even verify it?
2020-12-23T08:38:04 < jpa-> our hacklab has keysight 34401A, i find it pretty annoying to use because the menu structure is so complex and only one line of display
2020-12-23T08:38:32 < jadew> jpa-, I have that one too, what's wrong with the menu?
2020-12-23T08:38:36 < jadew> you get used to it pretty fast
2020-12-23T08:38:50 < jadew> I have the 34410A too, and that one has dual display
2020-12-23T08:39:50 < jpa-> well, it's fine for its time, but seeing a one-line display on 3458A sold today makes me just think that it would probably be more practical with modern TFT
2020-12-23T08:39:56 < jadew> it doesn't have many functions hidden in the menus
2020-12-23T08:40:12 < jadew> ah, for sure
2020-12-23T08:40:36 < jadew> but then again, you can connect it to the PC and get whatever displays you want
2020-12-23T08:42:35 < jadew> I'll probably sell the 34401A
2020-12-23T08:42:50 < jpa-> i'll try to resist buying it
2020-12-23T08:42:56 < jadew> heh
2020-12-23T08:43:58 < jpa-> because i don't really need 6.5 digits, but i would want a bench multimeter with ~4.5 digits and all the basic math functionality, selectable integration time etc.
2020-12-23T08:44:14 < jpa-> and accessible so that i don't get lost in the menus
2020-12-23T08:44:41 < jadew> yeah, they really deliver on all those counts
2020-12-23T08:44:50 < jadew> the math functionality is nicer on the 34410A tho
2020-12-23T08:45:17 < jadew> (because of the second display)
2020-12-23T08:49:56 < jadew> jpa-, http://188.26.147.41/stuff/20201223_084702.jpg
2020-12-23T08:50:20 < jadew> you can get some extra resolution like that
2020-12-23T08:51:40 < jpa-> yeah
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2020-12-23T09:04:19 < jadew> kind of old news by now: https://www.seti.org/signal-proxima-centauri
2020-12-23T09:05:11 < jadew> they don't make the signal public, do they?
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2020-12-23T13:36:34 < englishman> there are other 8.5 digit dmms including from Keysight bit nowhere near the same spec
2020-12-23T13:37:20 < englishman> cool links jpa- thanks! so it has improved somewhat. maybe the original datasheet will tell another tale
2020-12-23T13:38:09 < englishman> oh it is much better than keithley 2002, in fact the new 7.5 digit 7510 is better than the 2002
2020-12-23T13:38:35 < englishman> and the 3458A is about 7x better than the 7510
2020-12-23T13:41:49 < Steffanx> Will you get yourself a sourcs meter as well?
2020-12-23T13:41:49 < englishman> although i am specifically comparing uncertainty in current measurements. completely ignoring DCV
2020-12-23T13:41:56 < Steffanx> Source.
2020-12-23T13:42:12 < englishman> well it is to verify a source. in this case keithley 220/6220
2020-12-23T13:42:20 < englishman> for iso 17025 compliance
2020-12-23T13:44:08 < englishman> jpa-: you should get a keithley dmm6500
2020-12-23T13:44:09 < englishman> it's amazing
2020-12-23T13:44:24 < englishman> by far the best value dmm... ever, i think
2020-12-23T13:44:38 < Steffanx> Will it make Finland great again?
2020-12-23T13:44:44 < englishman> was it ever not great?
2020-12-23T13:45:22 < Steffanx> Idk i just head trump when someone says "its amazing"
2020-12-23T13:45:41 < englishman> nice clean forests always swept
2020-12-23T13:47:23 < karlp> "Zeners like wine, only better with time."
2020-12-23T13:47:29 < karlp> (from that xdevs page)
2020-12-23T13:48:05 < karlp> I love how far they nerd tou though, "Factory A9 PCBA come with PTFE caps (Keysight P/N 03458-44102), effectively making own enclosure around LTZ1000A, from both top and bottom sides. I also was lucky to get one set of original PTFE caps, and decided to make CAD 3D-model, so people who may go into buying used A9 REF boards can 3D-print or use CNC to produce their own caps."
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2020-12-23T13:48:54 < Streaker> speaking as someone who has never used a fancy DMM, what would you use an 8 digit DMM for? physics research? 
2020-12-23T13:49:15 < karlp> pixel peeping...
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2020-12-23T13:51:25 < englishman> in this case yes, physics research, medical, all kinds of fun stuff
2020-12-23T13:51:46 < englishman> any time you need to verify a small measurement
2020-12-23T13:52:40 < englishman> in my case I'm really looking at uncertainty and not necessarily resolution for nA measurements but it's these expensive DMMs that perform in this range (on paper)
2020-12-23T14:12:06 < karlp> right, nkon shopping done, ali shopping done.
2020-12-23T14:12:19 < karlp> fuck paying 6€ for an individual AAA rechargable locally.
2020-12-23T14:20:11 < jpa-> englishman: looks very cool, too bad it is way above my price range
2020-12-23T14:20:47 < englishman> :<
2020-12-23T14:21:01 < englishman> think of it as an investment in jpa jr's career
2020-12-23T14:21:08 < englishman> some strollers cost that much
2020-12-23T14:21:57 < jpa-> yeah, and they are way above my price range also
2020-12-23T14:22:35 < englishman> maybe you can find one on an open network and use its web interface remotely
2020-12-23T14:23:01 < jpa-> "hey, can you run wires to my place?"
2020-12-23T14:23:11 < jpa-> "preferrably 4-wire connection because it's gonna be pretty long"
2020-12-23T14:26:34 < Steffanx> jpa-:  62.93.33.74:5025 lol
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2020-12-23T14:27:02 < Steffanx> Keithley 2450 sourcemeter
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2020-12-23T14:30:13 < englishman> so when you buy the 3458A memory upgrade do they just mail you some pdip sram chips and a printed instruction manual
2020-12-23T14:30:17 < Steffanx> Oh doesnt seem to work anymore
2020-12-23T14:31:07 < Steffanx> Heh not even "plug it into the internets, we will install it remotely"?
2020-12-23T14:31:11 < Steffanx> Im disappointed 
2020-12-23T14:31:37 < englishman> no internets in 1989
2020-12-23T14:36:11 < karlp> englishman: heh, we looked a silly expensive pram, shopkeeper wa slike, "it's like baby's first volvo, gotta get the best to keep them safe"
2020-12-23T14:36:18 < karlp> .... no. not like that...
2020-12-23T14:36:36 < englishman> lol
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2020-12-23T14:45:33 < rajkosto> bought a new phone
2020-12-23T14:45:36 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2020-12-23_13-45-28_rn4rbMDmE.png
2020-12-23T14:45:38 < rajkosto> what the fuck is this
2020-12-23T14:45:46 < rajkosto> their way of passing the CC pin through USB-A
2020-12-23T14:45:52 < rajkosto> but why even do this, why not have USB-C on both ends of the charger
2020-12-23T15:00:41 < skz81> rajkosto, that's the phone end side i guess ? Doesn't make somewhat specific and you, captive ? Apple style custom brainfuck connectors ;°)
2020-12-23T15:11:08 < rajkosto> no, its the charger side
2020-12-23T15:11:10 < rajkosto> the phone is USB-C
2020-12-23T15:11:20 < rajkosto> but they need CC pin so it can do more than 5V
2020-12-23T15:11:24 < rajkosto> which USB-A lacks
2020-12-23T15:11:31 < rajkosto> so they put it in the middle of the usb3.0 pins
2020-12-23T15:23:25 < Mangy_Dog> so been rejigging my code and reorganising it, putting more of the functions within the glass, and moving around the #includes for the headers. But now im getting tons of errors.... most of them "first defined here"
2020-12-23T15:23:35 < Mangy_Dog> and its not like theyre redeffinitions
2020-12-23T15:24:02 < Mangy_Dog> all my headers have a #ifdef already and ive checked for any looped includes
2020-12-23T15:25:05 < Mangy_Dog> another eclipse bug?
2020-12-23T15:26:07 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog: please compile your code. Do not trust on eclipse giving you errors. 
2020-12-23T15:26:27 < Steffanx> If it gives you errors after compilation then you have errors
2020-12-23T15:27:19 < Steffanx> And you probably do have errors. Do you include your headers at the right places etc?
2020-12-23T15:27:56 < Steffanx> Its hard to know what youre doing wrong without seeing what youre doing. 
2020-12-23T15:28:04 < Mangy_Dog> im getting there errors after compiling
2020-12-23T15:28:26 < Mangy_Dog> tbh its hard to keep track this projects turning into a mess as a refactor and move things around
2020-12-23T15:28:43 < Mangy_Dog> so its not exactly easy to explain what im doing :D
2020-12-23T15:29:47 < Mangy_Dog> trouble is most of my includes were in the main file 
2020-12-23T15:30:18 < Mangy_Dog> but i do know there IS a bug that the creator of sloebar doesnt seem to fussed to fix. where includes within the main file dont always pass onto other include files, regardless of the order the includes are in
2020-12-23T15:30:31 < effractur> rajkosto: you are sure that that is the CC pin is that not the controll pin for SuperVOOC ?
2020-12-23T15:30:35 < Mangy_Dog> this also includes defines
2020-12-23T15:30:45 < Mangy_Dog> global defines dont pass into other header files
2020-12-23T15:30:52 < Mangy_Dog> even if they are above in the stream
2020-12-23T15:30:52 < karlp> where's kaks, and theother metal people? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwtVkPKx3RA&feature=youtu.be
2020-12-23T15:31:01 < karlp> and why didn't any of you sahre that earlier?
2020-12-23T15:31:17 < rajkosto> effractur, its from xiaomi and charger can do 5V, 9V, 12V
2020-12-23T15:31:21 < rajkosto> dunno what this supervooc is
2020-12-23T15:31:21 < Mangy_Dog> thats music?
2020-12-23T15:31:22 < Steffanx> Im sure mawk will like that noise, karlp
2020-12-23T15:31:35 < Mangy_Dog> all i get is really REALLY low quality stream garble noise
2020-12-23T15:31:39 < Mangy_Dog> and i like metal btw
2020-12-23T15:31:45 < rajkosto> effractur, the other end is USB-C so what else can the pin be ?
2020-12-23T15:32:05  * Mangy_Dog goes back to his synth wave
2020-12-23T15:32:47 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what you describe is just impossible. The preprocessor is not something that sloebar changes.
2020-12-23T15:33:55 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2020-12-23T15:34:00 < effractur> rajkosto: is it a one plus ?
2020-12-23T15:34:23 < Mangy_Dog> you mean globals SHOULDNT pass into includes?
2020-12-23T15:34:29 < rajkosto> no 
2020-12-23T15:34:44 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: #include directives are handled by preprocessor prior to compilation. It's just part toolchain, and it can't have any bugs like you describe.
2020-12-23T15:34:52 < Steffanx> What is it then rajkosto 
2020-12-23T15:35:01 < rajkosto> xiaomi redmi note 9 pro
2020-12-23T15:35:04 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: same about the #define directive.
2020-12-23T15:35:48 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: not sure what you call "globals".
2020-12-23T15:36:34 < Mangy_Dog> defines and varibles i put outside of functions
2020-12-23T15:36:41 < Mangy_Dog> in the white space
2020-12-23T15:37:14 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: C and C++ share a rather simple preprocessor. And it doesn't pass anything anywhere. It just performs simple text transformations.
2020-12-23T15:37:57 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: during the compilation stage all the defines are gone, substituted by the preprocessor.
2020-12-23T15:38:14 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-12-23T15:39:33 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: each .cpp file is first preprocessed, then compiled. Individually. There's no passing around of anything.
2020-12-23T15:41:07 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: and you can ask gcc to show you preprocessed source code to inspect how your macros expanded etc. With -E option. It's all pretty trivial once you have the right picture in mind and do not expect anything odd from a simple text preprocessor.
2020-12-23T15:41:26 < Mangy_Dog> so how would you pass a define or a varible thats within one other .h file to another .h file bellow in the include list?
2020-12-23T15:42:20 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: if some macro is defined by the time preprocessor sees its usage, then it substitutes it, if not, not.
2020-12-23T15:43:19 < PaulFertser> There's just one global namespace for them. So if you define something in one header, you can use it in any other header that's included after that.
2020-12-23T15:43:53 < Mangy_Dog> thats just it, its not always working like that
2020-12-23T15:44:26 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: it is. Please prove otherwise with the code, not words.
2020-12-23T15:44:26 < Mangy_Dog> im sure im doing something wrong too right now... but i suspect some of it is eclipse fucking up too
2020-12-23T15:44:44 < PaulFertser> Eclipse is not doing any preprocessing on your code.
2020-12-23T15:47:41 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog:  you can't define variables in headers. if you do so and that header is included in more than one .c file, then the linker will complain about multiply defined objects.
2020-12-23T15:48:26 < Mangy_Dog> thats just it
2020-12-23T15:48:27 < Mangy_Dog> its not
2020-12-23T15:48:30 < Mangy_Dog> its defined once
2020-12-23T15:48:39 < Mangy_Dog> but being used in multiple headers
2020-12-23T15:48:57 < PaulFertser> Linker will not necessarily complain, sometimes it merges or even not merges them in non-obvious ways.
2020-12-23T15:49:12 < Mangy_Dog> like right this second... im having an issue with one header saying blah is not defined, when its defined in the header above it
2020-12-23T15:50:18 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: sounds like you're confused about the difference between a definition and a declaration. I can't think of a scenario where a header will need a definition of another name (as opposed to just a declaration).
2020-12-23T15:50:21 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/791301656209915914/unknown.png
2020-12-23T15:51:29 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/791301939211010058/unknown.png
2020-12-23T15:51:51 < Mangy_Dog> also like i say its a mess as im shifting things around
2020-12-23T15:52:48 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: learning C properly would save you plenty of time...
2020-12-23T15:54:00 < Mangy_Dog> well then what am i doing wrong there then?
2020-12-23T15:54:46 < Streaker> Mangy_Dog: you're missing the "TricorderClass::"
2020-12-23T15:54:55 < Streaker> before displaybegin()
2020-12-23T15:56:08 < Mangy_Dog> ok i did.... but thats still not fixed it :p
2020-12-23T15:56:17 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: I see you have an .ino file in your project. With that additional buggy preprocessing might be happening. Just do not use ino ever, write plain C++ and you'll avoid plenty of odd issues.
2020-12-23T15:56:34 < Mangy_Dog> well im kinda stuck with ino
2020-12-23T15:56:40 < Mangy_Dog> as its a arduino based core
2020-12-23T15:56:43 < PaulFertser> No you're not.
2020-12-23T15:57:07 < PaulFertser> Arduino itself has no ino files, and you do not need any in your project either.
2020-12-23T15:58:03 < Mangy_Dog> how do i swap out the ino for a plane .cpp with a main()?
2020-12-23T15:58:30 < PaulFertser> Just rename your ino file to .cpp for starters.
2020-12-23T15:58:54 < PaulFertser> main() is provided by the arduino core anyway.
2020-12-23T15:59:36 < Mangy_Dog> I suspect just renaming it to .cpp and turning setup into main wont just work
2020-12-23T15:59:40 < Mangy_Dog> there would be more to do somewhere
2020-12-23T15:59:47 < Mangy_Dog> like how would the compiler know this is the main file 
2020-12-23T15:59:48 < karlp> huh, 3xAA powered christmas lights, sucks 2 batteries to 1.0, and the third one down to 0.25V.
2020-12-23T15:59:52 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: also your red arrows make me think you do not believe that each .cpp file is compiled individually...
2020-12-23T15:59:58 < karlp> I wonder how that works.
2020-12-23T16:00:17 < Mangy_Dog> well tbh i didnt want them compiled individually...
2020-12-23T16:00:25 < Mangy_Dog> ideally i want it compiled as it was just 1 long big file
2020-12-23T16:00:30 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: compiler never knows which file is main and never cares.
2020-12-23T16:00:36 < Mangy_Dog> im just breaking up the code to make it easyer for me to navigate around
2020-12-23T16:02:40 < PaulFertser> Like it or not, C++ language semantics says you have individual translation modules.
2020-12-23T16:03:25 < PaulFertser> translation units
2020-12-23T16:03:27 < Mangy_Dog> now im getting '::main' must return 'int' on main 
2020-12-23T16:03:32 < Mangy_Dog> when i changed it from setup
2020-12-23T16:03:55 < PaulFertser> main function must return int, that's true for more years than we live.
2020-12-23T16:04:47 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-12-23T16:04:51 < Mangy_Dog> well changed it to int
2020-12-23T16:05:34 < Mangy_Dog> still not linking that function across
2020-12-23T16:05:51 < Mangy_Dog> im gonna have a pee have something to eat and come back to this after
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2020-12-23T16:06:06 < PaulFertser> Linking? We were discussing compiling just before!
2020-12-23T16:06:54 < Mangy_Dog> what would you call putting an include file and wanting functions within that include to pass to another include?
2020-12-23T16:07:11 < qyx> uhm, including
2020-12-23T16:07:56 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: you're also not showing real error messages, that adds up to the confusion.
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2020-12-23T16:13:56 < Mangy_Dog> ok its changed before it was not declared now its Invalid arguments '
2020-12-23T16:13:56 < Mangy_Dog> Candidates are:
2020-12-23T16:13:56 < Mangy_Dog> void ILI9341_Init()
2020-12-23T16:15:50 < Mangy_Dog> but placing the header include into the tricorderclass header fixes it
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2020-12-23T16:37:46 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: is that function really declared without arguments at all? It should be (void) then.
2020-12-23T16:38:45 < PaulFertser> Hard to tell what's going on exactly without the way to clone all of the project and inspect it properly.
2020-12-23T16:50:10 < jadew> wow... some companies are fucking stupid
2020-12-23T16:50:23 < jadew> they sent me an e-mail saying there's a gift inside and the gift is a fucking survey
2020-12-23T16:50:41 < jadew> marked as spam
2020-12-23T17:07:33 < Steffanx> Thanks
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2020-12-23T17:58:38 < Steffanx> They are not stupid jadew. Would you have opened the email if it said "survey"?
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2020-12-23T18:38:27 < qyx> yes
2020-12-23T18:38:38 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/huDkyP8 hah dutchland is the best \o/
2020-12-23T18:44:25 < qyx> https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1565545/?utm_source=showcase&utm_campaign=visualisation/1565545
2020-12-23T18:44:47 < qyx> we had 3687 PCR positive today
2020-12-23T18:45:17 < qyx> per 5,457,926
2020-12-23T18:45:41 < qyx> thats 675 per mil.
2020-12-23T18:49:47 < BrainDamage> we get to skip xmas and new years'
2020-12-23T18:53:37 < Steffanx> Here it wont be skipped
2020-12-23T18:54:11 < Steffanx> Not xmas. Youll even be allowed to have people outside of your normal house keeping for dinner
2020-12-23T19:03:53 < jpa-> "per mil"? you should say ppm
2020-12-23T19:04:06 < jpa-> this is electronics channel anyway
2020-12-23T19:05:41 < qyx> sry, ppm
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2020-12-23T19:11:19 < Steffanx> Hi jpa- . Did you give in yet?
2020-12-23T19:12:10 < Steffanx> Or are you strong and wait for Xmas to open your packages
2020-12-23T19:13:01 < jpa-> well i opened them even before i told you, but i haven't poked them.. much
2020-12-23T19:17:11 < jadew> Steffanx, no, but I wouldn't have marked it as spam either
2020-12-23T19:17:11 < Steffanx> Damn. Dont tell the parrot
2020-12-23T19:17:31 < jadew> btw, marking an e-mail as spam is actually harmful for the spammers
2020-12-23T19:17:48 < jpa-> only if you use a mail system that leaks your data
2020-12-23T19:18:02 < Steffanx> And only when you use the spam lists that us them
2020-12-23T19:18:12 < Steffanx> Use.
2020-12-23T19:18:21 < jadew> the mail host reports back
2020-12-23T19:18:50 < jadew> and the mailing service lowers their score
2020-12-23T19:20:16 < Steffanx> Some of those lists are just fucking terrible. Like when they list entire IP blocks of ISPs. 
2020-12-23T19:20:22 < jadew> if they are a big company and have their own IPs, then they hurt their own score with the email hosting providers
2020-12-23T19:20:38 < Steffanx> And ask 250 chf to have it removed.
2020-12-23T19:21:07 < jpa-> generally they'll just use a botnet or rent out a virtual server
2020-12-23T19:21:08 < Steffanx> And some people even use those lists 
2020-12-23T19:21:32 < jadew> yeah, some of the lists are pretty bad
2020-12-23T19:21:37 < Steffanx> Nah happened at work. Could no longer email the client that used the list. 
2020-12-23T19:21:39 < jadew> but this is not list based
2020-12-23T19:21:53 < Steffanx>  But the client was french so that explains it all. 
2020-12-23T19:22:16 < jadew> I got a static IP specifically for that, but didn't get to set it up
2020-12-23T19:22:42 < jadew> registration emails weren't going through at one point
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2020-12-23T19:39:26 < jadew> got my son a DJI Mavic Mini
2020-12-23T19:39:32 < jadew> can't wait to play with it
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2020-12-23T19:40:11 < BrainDamage> buying toys for your kids to play yourself?
2020-12-23T19:40:47 < jadew> BrainDamage, when he lets me, but yeah :P
2020-12-23T19:40:51 < BrainDamage> you know that you can just do it directly, with the added benefit they won't have a pile of garbage they barely look at
2020-12-23T19:41:15 < jadew> ah, I'm sure he'll play with this
2020-12-23T19:41:33 < jadew> he wanted something like this for quite some time, and he's playing with the other drones too
2020-12-23T19:42:08 < jadew> unfortunately the transmitters in this one seems to be limited due to CE, compared with the FCC variant
2020-12-23T19:42:20 < jadew> I'll have to see if I can fix that
2020-12-23T19:43:37 < jadew> the FCC one can do >5 km in open space
2020-12-23T19:43:48 < jadew> the CE one can do only ~2 km
2020-12-23T19:43:54 < BrainDamage> try swapping the label from C E to CE
2020-12-23T19:45:38 < jadew> hmm, 10 dB less
2020-12-23T19:56:40 < englishman> ppm is a bullshit term
2020-12-23T19:57:04 < jadew> why?
2020-12-23T19:57:06 < englishman> you should use μ+/+
2020-12-23T19:57:12 < englishman> micropositives per positive
2020-12-23T19:57:31 < englishman> or i guess micropopulation per population?
2020-12-23T19:57:59 < englishman> please see channel rule number 8.
2020-12-23T19:59:14 < jpa-> why not dBcovid
2020-12-23T19:59:43 < englishman> microcovids per covid?
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2020-12-23T21:41:25 < Steffanx> what kind of random modules were you talking about on aliexpress, karlp? There is still a lot on the ali, not just consumer electronics
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--- Day changed Thu Dec 24 2020
2020-12-24T00:28:12 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@48.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-24T00:28:41 < Laurenceb> sup
2020-12-24T00:30:57 < Steffanx> Tha sky
2020-12-24T00:39:19 < Laurenceb> linux mint 20 is annoying
2020-12-24T00:39:38 < Laurenceb> xchat taskbar applet is glitching 
2020-12-24T00:40:11 < Laurenceb> also "sudo gparted" fails due to xwindows permissions issues
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2020-12-24T00:47:25 < Laurenceb> aha
2020-12-24T00:47:26 < Laurenceb> xhost +local:
2020-12-24T00:47:41 < Laurenceb> nonexistent documentation as usual with lunix
2020-12-24T00:49:37 < karlp> Steffanx: just having a hard time finding things like this these days: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32843823199.html
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2020-12-24T01:11:54 < karlp> heh, was just trying to ali search for one of realtek's partnumbers, rtl8762, a bluetooth M0, alll you see ar ewatches, that use it as their platform
2020-12-24T01:16:03 < machinehum> Maybe the dumpster ran out
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2020-12-24T03:14:41 < mawk> xhost is very documented
2020-12-24T03:14:50 < mawk> the problem is not linux, the problem is laurenceb
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2020-12-24T03:45:01 < karlp> well, gksudo.... or started parted from the gui...
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2020-12-24T04:21:11 < Steffanx> No you were the problem mawk
2020-12-24T04:21:33 < Steffanx> Where were you all day? You had to help out laurence_ 
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2020-12-24T04:40:22 < laurence_> lolowned
2020-12-24T04:40:22 < laurence_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uretrfMA-Io
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2020-12-24T15:33:59 < mawk> I'm in paris Steffanx 
2020-12-24T15:34:01 < mawk> best city
2020-12-24T15:34:07 < mawk> highly recommended
2020-12-24T15:34:37 < mawk> although I advise you to avoid la colline du crack as well as the stalingrad migrant camp
2020-12-24T15:35:03 < Steffanx> Been there. Gipsies, thieves and more thieves
2020-12-24T15:35:21 < mawk> just put a padlock on your bag
2020-12-24T15:36:10 < Steffanx> Ooh and Mr Bean. Mr Bean was there when i was there
2020-12-24T15:36:23 < PaulFertser> You should have visited Centre Pompidou.
2020-12-24T15:40:05 < mawk> the pipeish monstruosity?
2020-12-24T15:43:46 < Steffanx> Dont you remember my story about poles in the cabin to the Sacré-Cœur, mawk?
2020-12-24T15:44:04 < mawk> no
2020-12-24T15:44:11 < Steffanx> damn you
2020-12-24T15:44:38 < Steffanx> And the girl snapping her leg between the poles.
2020-12-24T15:45:15 < Steffanx> and then ##stm32 going on an on about poles being people from poland
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2020-12-24T15:51:24 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
2020-12-24T15:53:11 < kakium69> lurencer is not here
2020-12-24T15:53:25 < kakium69> he probs has hilight on word pole
2020-12-24T15:56:47 < Steffanx> snus snus
2020-12-24T15:56:55 < Steffanx> Does that trigger you kakium69?
2020-12-24T15:56:59 < kakium69> yes
2020-12-24T15:57:05 < kakium69> where is my snus
2020-12-24T15:57:25 < kakium69> shit I need to find the snus
2020-12-24T15:57:37 < kakium69> oh it's in sweden still
2020-12-24T16:13:39 < kakium69> things I have done today: cleaning my phone's usb port with tip of the tweezers
2020-12-24T16:14:48 < kakium69> drink a red bull - recreationally
2020-12-24T16:15:50 < mawk> lol
2020-12-24T16:15:55 < kakium69> and investigate if I should build a performance VR6 12valve
2020-12-24T16:15:59 < mawk> I drank 2 0.5L redbull cans yet
2020-12-24T16:16:01 < mawk> still 2 to go
2020-12-24T16:16:32 < kakium69> I drank one to empty stomach so I dont feel so good
2020-12-24T16:22:14 < Steffanx> fuck redbull
2020-12-24T16:22:31 < mawk> I drink monster
2020-12-24T16:22:36 < mawk> better taste
2020-12-24T16:22:43 < mawk> I'm in train
2020-12-24T16:22:50 < mawk> with my 4G usb stick with the huge antenna
2020-12-24T16:23:09 < kakium69> are you a hobo?
2020-12-24T16:23:48 < kakium69> just having xmas lan in a train
2020-12-24T16:24:06 < kakium69> where it's warm and stuff
2020-12-24T16:25:21 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-24T16:26:24 < BrainDamage> better upgrade to 5G
2020-12-24T16:26:37 < BrainDamage> so your mind control signals are more efficient
2020-12-24T16:27:05 < BrainDamage> also, hilarious shit, sellers started branding 5GHz wifi routers as 5G
2020-12-24T16:27:15 < BrainDamage> and people swallowing that up
2020-12-24T16:27:40 < PaulFertser> :D
2020-12-24T16:31:26 < kakium69> it's already -48C in the world coldest town
2020-12-24T16:31:48 < kakium69> https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=temp/orthographic=-279.60,31.83,339/loc=136.286,62.664
2020-12-24T16:32:47 < karlp> was it here someone shared the 5g shields like https://www.ebay.com/itm/WiFi-Router-Smart-Meter-Radiation-RF-5G-EMF-Shielding-Faraday-Hat-Cage/264487350566 ?
2020-12-24T16:33:01 < kakium69> interesting thing is that where I live is pretty much as north as the coldest town
2020-12-24T16:33:08 < karlp> someone had a version that claimed to still let yhou use your wifi, and the reviews were all "my wifi is shit now, this product is bad"
2020-12-24T16:33:11 < kakium69> within 50km or so
2020-12-24T16:33:33 < karlp> it's like 7-8C here, way to fucking warm
2020-12-24T16:44:12 < Steffanx> same-same
2020-12-24T16:44:27 < kakium69> -3
2020-12-24T16:44:36 < kakium69> SNOWING
2020-12-24T16:44:58 < kakium69> it's like xmas movie snow
2020-12-24T16:44:59 < Steffanx> Good snow?
2020-12-24T16:45:03 < Steffanx> YAY
2020-12-24T16:45:04 < kakium69> ofc
2020-12-24T16:45:17 < kakium69> but it's like dark also
2020-12-24T16:46:35 < Steffanx> So whats for xmas kakium69? Big fat deer?
2020-12-24T16:46:41 < kakium69> pork
2020-12-24T16:46:43 < kakium69> salmon
2020-12-24T16:48:11 < jadew> "Sadly, 5G is ridiculously powerful so it will only shield 85% of the signal unless you put two canopies on top of each other, then it blocks it out completely! My head was buzzing and I was only there testing for a few days, it seriously felt like id been 10 rounds with Mike Tyson, wasn't hurting but felt really weird"
2020-12-24T16:48:51 < jadew> do you think the world would be better or worse without all these idiots?
2020-12-24T16:49:23 < Steffanx> Worse, what would we have to talk about when no one is doing stm32?
2020-12-24T16:49:26 < fenugrec> "85% of the signal"... 8dB ? 
2020-12-24T16:49:28 < kakium69> dumdums are essential
2020-12-24T16:49:47 < kakium69> for world to work
2020-12-24T16:49:55 < jadew> fenugrec, about 7
2020-12-24T16:50:10 < fenugrec> I was generous and computed 10log0.15
2020-12-24T16:50:11 < jadew> wait
2020-12-24T16:50:32 < jadew> yeah, it's 7
2020-12-24T16:51:04 < Steffanx> 42
2020-12-24T16:51:14 < jadew> 8, it's 8
2020-12-24T16:51:15 < fenugrec> it's irrelevant, is what it is
2020-12-24T16:51:20 < jadew> it doesn't matter yeah
2020-12-24T16:51:45 < jadew> you'll still get a wifi signal
2020-12-24T16:52:04 < jadew> my point is that they believe this crap so much that they start feeling it
2020-12-24T16:52:10 < Steffanx> See, 4 minutes of entertainment already. The joy
2020-12-24T16:52:24 < jadew> it's like those audiophools who hear stuff that isn't there
2020-12-24T16:52:58 < jadew> anyway, I was looking into the legislation for drones, turns out you can't really fly them in the city
2020-12-24T16:53:14 < jadew> at least in here, and apparently in most EU countries
2020-12-24T16:54:07 < Steffanx> Anyway more important news: WE HAVE A DEAL!!!!11
2020-12-24T16:54:12 < jadew> and you can't film large gatherings without ministry of defence approval - this one was introduced during a large protest
2020-12-24T16:54:31 < jadew> Steffanx, what deal do you have?
2020-12-24T16:54:34 < Steffanx> BREXIT
2020-12-24T16:54:40 < jadew> really?
2020-12-24T16:54:47 < jadew> I need to read on that
2020-12-24T16:54:55 < Steffanx> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-55433447
2020-12-24T16:55:48 < jadew> are they in the EEA?
2020-12-24T16:56:36 < mawk> jadew: "electrosensibility" is about to be recognized officially as a disease in france
2020-12-24T16:56:42 < mawk> but probably in the psychiatric department
2020-12-24T16:57:35 < jadew> mawk, in here state employees get bonuses because they are exposed to electromagnetic radiation... from PCs and WiFi routers...
2020-12-24T16:57:49 < jadew> huge bonuses
2020-12-24T16:59:05 < jadew> "We have signed the first free trade agreement based on zero tariffs and zero quotas that has ever been achieved with the EU.
2020-12-24T16:59:15 < jadew> so they're in the EEA?
2020-12-24T16:59:17 < karlp> yeah, will be nice to read the actuality
2020-12-24T16:59:24 < karlp> no way they did an eea join last minute
2020-12-24T16:59:44 < karlp> also, there's all sorts of quotas still with eea nations.
2020-12-24T17:00:02 < karlp> the uk govt statement is like wishlist of brexit from day 1, it's just PR spin, 
2020-12-24T17:01:01 < karlp> englishman:https://www.eenewsembedded.com/news/mouser-adds-impact-indicators-and-recorder-units?fnid=134524
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2020-12-24T17:01:31 < karlp> (still seems tobe 300euro, so bosch still winning for you)
2020-12-24T17:01:52 < Laurenceb> solar freaking blimps
2020-12-24T17:01:53 < Steffanx> I still wonder if englishman is planning on crashing
2020-12-24T17:02:30 < Laurenceb> >ppl thought solar roadways was sane
2020-12-24T17:03:14 < mawk> there was a solar roadways in france
2020-12-24T17:03:19 < mawk> it's completely dead
2020-12-24T17:03:34 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-12-24T17:03:52 < mawk> inaugurated by Ségolène Royal, ex-wife of president Hollande
2020-12-24T17:03:54  * Laurenceb is working on his solar blimp simcode
2020-12-24T17:04:18 < Laurenceb> I'm getting NOAA data via Hysplit, no need for crazy haxor tricks
2020-12-24T17:04:25 < mawk> ah
2020-12-24T17:04:32 < mawk> is it filled with H2?
2020-12-24T17:04:36 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-24T17:04:51 < mawk> boom
2020-12-24T17:04:54 < Laurenceb> usin aerodynamic coefficients from old papers
2020-12-24T17:05:11 < Laurenceb> >implying there will be a smoking room and kitchen onboard
2020-12-24T17:05:19 < mawk> lol
2020-12-24T17:05:29 < mawk> you will have a typo in power supply code
2020-12-24T17:05:31 < mawk> that will short circuit
2020-12-24T17:05:33 < mawk> and boom
2020-12-24T17:05:55 < jadew> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/dec/24/brexit-deal-united-kingdom-european-union-boris-johnson-live-news-updates
2020-12-24T17:06:03 < jadew> live
2020-12-24T17:06:12 < Laurenceb> the thing will be completely dumb
2020-12-24T17:06:24 < Laurenceb> not even any power convertors... perhaps
2020-12-24T17:06:26 < mawk> electrostatic sparks then
2020-12-24T17:06:29 < mawk> boom boom
2020-12-24T17:07:07 < mawk> the solar hindenburg
2020-12-24T17:07:08 < Laurenceb> f that much hydrogen is leaking its already doomed tbh
2020-12-24T17:07:22 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-24T17:07:27 < mawk> but you will be on board right?
2020-12-24T17:07:32 < mawk> for the test flight
2020-12-24T17:07:49 < Laurenceb> lolno
2020-12-24T17:08:04 < Laurenceb> it'd be tested with off the shelf advertising blimps
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2020-12-24T17:08:10 < Laurenceb> they are very common in uk
2020-12-24T17:08:14 < mawk> a
2020-12-24T17:08:50 < Laurenceb> thats what gave me the idea, I was at work in windstorm waiting for the advertising blimps to get trashed
2020-12-24T17:09:03 < mawk> lol
2020-12-24T17:09:06 < jadew> they killed the stream
2020-12-24T17:09:07 < jadew> wtf
2020-12-24T17:09:11 < Laurenceb> but the windows got torn off the side of my building before the blimps got blown down
2020-12-24T17:09:19 < mawk> lol
2020-12-24T17:09:23 < mawk> fire at them with long range rifle
2020-12-24T17:09:26 < Laurenceb> because they have L/D of >2
2020-12-24T17:09:56 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgqEHsONK8
2020-12-24T17:10:25 < Laurenceb> looks like solar panels on the side of the envelope is almost as good as any complex tracking scheme from results so far
2020-12-24T17:10:37 < Laurenceb> about 4 times the output of uk sea level
2020-12-24T17:11:24 < Laurenceb> and about 50 to 100 times increase in midwinter output
2020-12-24T17:12:04 < mawk> possums have L/D of 2 as well
2020-12-24T17:12:06 < mawk> so call  your device solar possum
2020-12-24T17:12:25 < Laurenceb> lmao
2020-12-24T17:14:15 < Laurenceb> startosolar is crap in winter lol
2020-12-24T17:14:20 < Laurenceb> *stratosolar
2020-12-24T17:14:45 < Laurenceb> sun is too low on the horizon and there is lots of reflection off the surface of the horizontal panels
2020-12-24T17:15:14 < Laurenceb> I dont think they thought it through at all
2020-12-24T17:15:54 < Steffanx> And we will all remember the Blaxterburg crash
2020-12-24T17:19:40 < jadew> if I had GBP, should I sell it or buy more?
2020-12-24T17:19:48 < jadew> that is the question
2020-12-24T17:20:12 < jadew> they're not giving out any clear details
2020-12-24T17:20:32 < Steffanx> Youre screwed either way
2020-12-24T17:20:36 < Steffanx> buttcoin is what you need
2020-12-24T17:21:25 < jadew> doubled in value in the past year...
2020-12-24T17:21:30 < jadew> what a silly currency
2020-12-24T17:24:09 < jadew> sounds like the EU has the UK by the balls
2020-12-24T17:24:35 < jadew> they still have to abide by EU laws
2020-12-24T17:24:51 < effractur> yea so norway like 
2020-12-24T17:24:54 < effractur> it seems waht i read
2020-12-24T17:25:22 < Laurenceb> tfw autism outside of being a screeching retard isn't a real thing and psychologists are hacks
2020-12-24T17:25:59 < jadew> Laurenceb, is autism even clearly defined?
2020-12-24T17:26:08 < Laurenceb> nope
2020-12-24T17:26:44 < jadew> last I checked, it was a bunch of stuff that could be caused by a number of other things, or which might not even be real problems
2020-12-24T17:27:18 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpzyQJJ8R0Y
2020-12-24T17:27:28 < jadew> and what's most striking about this disease is that there are lots of self-proclaimed autists
2020-12-24T17:29:20 < jadew> Laurenceb, you had that in your sleeve, eh?
2020-12-24T17:29:28 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-12-24T17:32:13 < Steffanx> i think jadew has autism. He seems to be someone who cannot really relate sometimes. " Does not happen in my world, so does not exist." 
2020-12-24T17:32:54 < jadew> Steffanx, all I'm saying is you have to define something properly before you use it as a diagnostic
2020-12-24T17:33:12 < jadew> from what I've read autism is everything
2020-12-24T17:33:32 < jadew> it's a spectrum, like gender
2020-12-24T17:35:28 < jadew> ok, the GBP is slowly but steadily losing value
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2020-12-24T17:38:05 < specing> Steffanx: you think?
2020-12-24T17:38:12 < specing> everyone in here has autism
2020-12-24T17:38:21 < Steffanx> ofcourse
2020-12-24T17:38:31 < Steffanx> Welcome to the club specing
2020-12-24T17:38:36 < specing> hi
2020-12-24T17:38:45 < Steffanx> Hows the day in .cz?
2020-12-24T17:38:54 < specing> no idea, I'm not there
2020-12-24T17:39:03 < Steffanx> .de?
2020-12-24T17:39:07 < Steffanx> i always forget
2020-12-24T17:40:31 < jadew> paypal conversion fee.. 4%
2020-12-24T17:40:35 < jadew> fucking assholes
2020-12-24T17:42:11 < Steffanx> Use your credit card
2020-12-24T17:42:43 < jadew> no, I wanted to convert the existing GBP I had to EUR
2020-12-24T17:43:07 < jadew> it wasn't much, but they nicked ~40-50 EUR from that transaction
2020-12-24T17:43:15 < effractur> don't use paypal
2020-12-24T17:43:21 < effractur> but sync it trough transferwise
2020-12-24T17:43:25 < effractur> the fee is way lower
2020-12-24T17:44:08 < jadew> if you only operate in EUR, you only pay the selling fee
2020-12-24T17:44:53 < jadew> unfortunately, ebay is region based and the biggest ebay site in europe is the UK one
2020-12-24T17:45:01 < jadew> and it only accepts listings in GBP
2020-12-24T17:45:49 < jadew> now that I have no more GBP, I hope it'll crash, so I can buy some when it's down :P
2020-12-24T17:55:36 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
2020-12-24T17:56:00 < Steffanx> Isnt ebay.de pretty large as well?
2020-12-24T17:56:23 < effractur> yes
2020-12-24T17:56:28 < jadew> not as large
2020-12-24T17:56:30 < jadew> but yeah
2020-12-24T17:56:45 < jadew> most people go to .co.uk because of the english
2020-12-24T17:58:08 < englishman> karlp: funny since the Bosch one is also listed at mouser, though it's out of stock
2020-12-24T17:58:41 < englishman> also spotsee resells those Bosch loggers at 4x price, putting a sticker over the Bosch logo
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2020-12-24T20:46:42 < bitmask_> so do I work on strengthening the duct connector to support this big ole 5lb fan vertically like this or suck it up and just go straight out the back
2020-12-24T20:46:43 < bitmask_> https://i.imgur.com/jcNCT17.png
2020-12-24T20:48:54 < jpa-> why not separately attach the fan to wall or something?
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2020-12-24T20:50:25 < bitmask_> this setup has to be portable/temporary, I can't just leave it connected, so just throwing a piece of cardboard or something into the window with a hole cut out for flexible ducting to pop in seemed easier
2020-12-24T20:51:07 < bitmask_> does distance from source of stuff being sucked up matter in a closed system?
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2020-12-24T20:52:39 < bitmask_> if not then I guess I can just use some flexible duct from the booth to the fan and lay the fan on the table any which way
2020-12-24T20:53:00 < bitmask_> (as straight as possible of course)
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2020-12-24T21:03:57 < machinehum> Is it me or does this shit look retardo https://imgur.com/1bXAaoQ
2020-12-24T21:04:08 < machinehum> Putting the sw output through vias...?
2020-12-24T21:04:47 < machinehum> Like why tf do they arrange the pins like that...?
2020-12-24T21:17:25 < englishman> link doesn't work for me
2020-12-24T21:28:35 < jadew> bitmask_, it does
2020-12-24T21:28:41 < jadew> I use two fans
2020-12-24T21:28:56 < jadew> one on the bench and one in the middle of the duct
2020-12-24T21:29:13 < bitmask_> ahh, im just gonna try with 1, these fans are expensive  and its more airflow than I need
2020-12-24T21:29:25 < bitmask_> I think by the booth is better
2020-12-24T21:29:30 < jadew> depends how much piping you have
2020-12-24T21:29:34 < jadew> I think I have about 5 m
2020-12-24T21:29:40 < bitmask_> yea im gonna try to minimize it
2020-12-24T21:30:22 < bitmask_> im not gonna have that much
2020-12-24T21:30:30 < jadew> also, instead of having it come from above, I have it hidden behind one of the monitors and I just pull the hose out when I need it
2020-12-24T21:30:34 < jadew> pun intended
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2020-12-24T21:58:09 < Steffanx> kakium69: better start looking out side: https://santatracker.google.com/
2020-12-24T22:03:07 < machinehum> englishman: https://i.imgur.com/1bXAaoQ.png
2020-12-24T22:06:08 < ds2> is santa masked up? :D
2020-12-24T22:09:13 < machinehum> Something like this looks more reasonable but wtf do I know
2020-12-24T22:09:15 < machinehum> https://i.imgur.com/2001hNH.png
2020-12-24T22:11:51 < jadew> laurence__, is it true that brits are emptying the stores?
2020-12-24T22:12:09 < laurence__> jadew: dunno, I raided store two days ago
2020-12-24T22:12:20 < laurence__> was only minor raiding at that point
2020-12-24T22:12:29 < laurence__> in March it was insane
2020-12-24T22:12:39 < jadew> ah, so it's not as bad, eh?
2020-12-24T22:12:44 < laurence__> I got to store about 3 hours after Boris gave a speech
2020-12-24T22:12:52 < laurence__> and there was literally no food
2020-12-24T22:13:08 < laurence__> as I arrived someone was leaving in a small lorry mounded up with food
2020-12-24T22:13:24 < jadew> that's in March?
2020-12-24T22:13:27 < laurence__> yeah
2020-12-24T22:13:52 < laurence__> ppl were running relays shovelling whole supermarket shelves into trolleys and buying everything
2020-12-24T22:14:09 < jadew> yeah, it was the same here
2020-12-24T22:14:22 < laurence__> prob only 1% of people
2020-12-24T22:14:32 < laurence__> but they managed ot empty all the stores in hours
2020-12-24T22:15:27 < jadew> this is a good bed time story for the next generation
2020-12-24T22:15:34 < laurence__> lol
2020-12-24T22:15:46 < laurence__> government introduced buying limits but it was about 2 days too late
2020-12-24T22:16:53 < laurence__> how do you update DNS setting on lunix mint?
2020-12-24T22:16:59 < laurence__> anyone got any ideaz?
2020-12-24T22:17:08 < jadew> dhcp
2020-12-24T22:17:09 < laurence__> I can edit but they dont take effect
2020-12-24T22:17:31 < jadew> you mean change the DNS?
2020-12-24T22:17:54 < jadew> how do you know they didn't take effect?
2020-12-24T22:17:57 < jadew> they get cached
2020-12-24T22:18:01 < laurence__> ok
2020-12-24T22:18:07 < laurence__> so how do I flush the cache?
2020-12-24T22:18:12 < jadew> look up how to clear the DNS cache
2020-12-24T22:18:19 < laurence__> k
2020-12-24T22:18:20 < jadew> depends on the service you use for that I think
2020-12-24T22:18:57 < jadew> also, DNS responses get cached by your ISP too
2020-12-24T22:19:18 < jadew> actually nvm
2020-12-24T22:19:36 < jadew> if you change the DNS, it doesn't matter
2020-12-24T22:20:18 < ds2> if you use DHCP, you probally can't change DNS
2020-12-24T22:20:32 < jadew> well, you could change it in the router
2020-12-24T22:20:57 < jadew> then refresh the settings by rerunning DHCP, but I don't remember how that's done
2020-12-24T22:21:36 < ds2> disconnect/reconnect should do it
2020-12-24T22:21:41 < laurence__> yeah
2020-12-24T22:23:18 < laurence__> hah that worked, thanks
2020-12-24T22:23:47 < jadew> which thing worked?
2020-12-24T22:25:14 < laurence__> disconnect/reconnect
2020-12-24T22:25:39 < jadew> so you changed the DNS in the router or you just wanted to clear the cache?
2020-12-24T22:26:15 < laurence__> nah just changed the pc to use opendns
2020-12-24T22:26:22 < laurence__> no changes to the router
2020-12-24T22:26:27 < jadew> got it, so clearing the cache then
2020-12-24T22:27:26 < Steffanx> music time kakium69 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJiQckTVBc0
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2020-12-24T22:31:54 < PaulFertser> So folks https://www.aggsoft.com/serial-port-monitor/download.htm worked good enough to sniff some serial port exchange on Windows.
2020-12-24T22:33:19 < Steffanx> paid the 60 euro bucks?
2020-12-24T22:37:44 < PaulFertser> No, I mean the demo version is good enough for basic sniffing.
2020-12-24T22:37:56 < PaulFertser> You see the baud rate and other parameters, you see first 1024 bytes of exchange.
2020-12-24T22:38:12 < PaulFertser> And you can select and copy from their window.
2020-12-24T22:41:42 < mawk> I'm putting freertos in my nrf52 app
2020-12-24T22:41:46 < mawk> it's surprisingly easy
2020-12-24T22:41:52 < mawk> too bad amazon bought that stuff
2020-12-24T22:42:27 < Steffanx> go enjoy paris mawk
2020-12-24T22:42:35 < mawk> I'm not in paris anymore
2020-12-24T22:42:40 < mawk> and I enjoyed it for 23 years
2020-12-24T22:42:52 < Steffanx> Go enjoy france mawk
2020-12-24T22:43:08 < mawk> no
2020-12-24T22:43:12 < mawk> I prefer to enjoy nrf52
2020-12-24T22:43:19 < mawk> and white powder
2020-12-24T22:43:24 < Steffanx> Didnt take ukranian gf?
2020-12-24T22:44:25 < mawk> no
2020-12-24T22:45:27 < Steffanx> awh too bad
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2020-12-25T02:02:42 < laurence__> <title>504 Gateway Timeout</title>
2020-12-25T02:02:43 < laurence__> nice
2020-12-25T02:02:48 < laurence__> ]I broke hysplit
2020-12-25T02:03:32 < laurence__> bet the server ran out of ram
2020-12-25T02:03:54 < laurence__> I sent a http post that forced it to load all archives into memory lmao
2020-12-25T02:06:13 < laurence__> looks like us taxpayers need to buy me some ram
2020-12-25T02:14:27 < kakium69> you work for cia now?
2020-12-25T02:14:46 < rajkosto> he has started glowing
2020-12-25T02:26:23 < Steffanx> Got some pizza kakium69  ?
2020-12-25T02:26:32 < kakium69> no
2020-12-25T02:27:24 < Steffanx> Its not time for a sauna pizza party
2020-12-25T02:27:25 < Steffanx> ?
2020-12-25T02:27:35 < kakium69> no
2020-12-25T02:27:49 < kakium69> xmas is time of silence
2020-12-25T02:32:13 < kakium69> one xmas I got drunk with a relative though
2020-12-25T02:32:21 < kakium69> in hot tub
2020-12-25T02:36:08 < kakium69> we got some bad looks from other family members
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2020-12-25T02:42:17 < Steffanx> Was it a female relative?
2020-12-25T02:42:34 < Steffanx> Got some nice xmas song then?
2020-12-25T02:50:38 < kakium69> no, actually yes
2020-12-25T02:50:43 < kakium69> yes and no
2020-12-25T02:50:56 < kakium69> I forgot it was more of like three way
2020-12-25T02:55:30 < kakium69> before you get any ideas it was mostly drinking and talking shit
2020-12-25T02:57:40 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-12-25T03:00:14 < kakium69> it appears that my car is a devastation for my bank account
2020-12-25T03:02:26 < ds2> what kind a car?
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2020-12-25T03:03:07 < kakium69> old passat
2020-12-25T03:03:17 < kakium69> 2.8 v6 4motion
2020-12-25T03:04:26 < Steffanx> Red digits?
2020-12-25T03:04:44 < Steffanx> Hows dooling and job hunting mr kakium69 ?
2020-12-25T03:05:09 < kakium69> kinda back to non-active job hunting now
2020-12-25T03:06:47 < Steffanx> I see
2020-12-25T03:07:01 < Steffanx> Trying to win the lottery?
2020-12-25T03:07:09 < Steffanx> Buttcoin?
2020-12-25T03:07:15 < Steffanx> Or just dooling?
2020-12-25T03:08:15 < kakium69> none of them
2020-12-25T03:19:40 < kakium69> probs rent some cabin and start dooling
2020-12-25T03:19:46 < Steffanx> Alright. Living the life. :)
2020-12-25T03:22:47 < kakium69> some relemblance of living at least
2020-12-25T03:24:16 < kakium69> but man cabins are like.. really hot commodity right now
2020-12-25T03:30:04 < Steffanx> Just like one of those tiny houses that pop up here?
2020-12-25T03:32:43 < kakium69> it's not "tiny house" exactly
2020-12-25T03:32:52 < kakium69> tiny houseism is different thing
2020-12-25T03:36:20 < Steffanx> So how fancy will the cabin be?
2020-12-25T03:39:46 < kakium69> well it should have electricity and running water
2020-12-25T03:40:02 < kakium69> and fireplace
2020-12-25T03:41:20 < kakium69> fire burning ovens and such count
2020-12-25T03:41:39 < kakium69> fire burning!
2020-12-25T03:41:52 < kakium69> maybe wood burning
2020-12-25T03:42:21 < Steffanx> Place for the cat. Place for the bed, tv  computer, shower, toilet 
2020-12-25T03:42:30 < Steffanx> Big cabin
2020-12-25T03:43:05 < kakium69> yes it kinda gets big
2020-12-25T03:43:20 < kakium69> separate bedroom
2020-12-25T03:45:01 < kakium69> bedroom is a must
2020-12-25T03:47:51 < Steffanx> True, full kitchen incl dish washer
2020-12-25T03:49:01 < kakium69> kitchen = dish washer
2020-12-25T03:49:37 < kakium69> and a few other things
2020-12-25T03:59:25 < Steffanx> Sauna..?
2020-12-25T03:59:37 < Steffanx> When can ##stm32 visit?
2020-12-25T04:10:01 < kakium69> if I get the cabin
2020-12-25T04:10:03 < kakium69> then
2020-12-25T04:10:05 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-12-25T04:16:56 < Steffanx> Yay
2020-12-25T04:17:16 < Steffanx> So what is mr kakium69  up to at this late hour? Dreaming about cabins
2020-12-25T04:17:38 < Steffanx> Preparing the pork and salmon?
2020-12-25T04:17:44 < kakium69> trying to sleep
2020-12-25T04:19:19 < Steffanx> With the laptop and/or phone... hm
2020-12-25T04:19:33 < kakium69> its how I do it
2020-12-25T04:20:26 < Steffanx> I see
2020-12-25T04:20:36 < Steffanx> Is it working?
2020-12-25T04:20:38 < kakium69> put something on
2020-12-25T04:21:50 < kakium69> it used to
2020-12-25T04:22:47 < Steffanx> Time for a song then https://youtu.be/-KR3PSonpD4
2020-12-25T04:24:40 < kakium69> no
2020-12-25T04:25:00 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-25T04:25:36 < Steffanx> Its about grandma and Reindeers
2020-12-25T04:26:09 < kakium69> it hurts my tired head
2020-12-25T04:26:26 < Steffanx> Good
2020-12-25T04:28:19 < Steffanx> Sleep well then mr kakium69 
2020-12-25T04:28:36 < Steffanx> You need more stroopwaffles for energy 
2020-12-25T04:29:55 < kakium69> are you.. on stroopwaffles?
2020-12-25T04:30:07 < kakium69> you seem hyped
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2020-12-25T04:32:20 < Steffanx> Im not.
2020-12-25T04:33:02 < Steffanx> Who need drugs when you have a sleep deprived brain?
2020-12-25T04:35:22 < kakium69> thats fun
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2020-12-25T05:29:45 < laurence__> new ip and I'm back in action
2020-12-25T05:29:54 < laurence__> wtf I love hazoring now
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2020-12-25T07:41:48 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone experienced using several I2C slave devices, daisy chained and you notice 1st and last device are acting weird when it comes to respond to the command?
2020-12-25T08:00:37 < PaulFertser> Hm, daisy-chaining I2C sounds non-standard.
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2020-12-25T09:16:49 < upgrdman> anyone have a favorite hex editor for windows?
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2020-12-25T10:51:33 < Ultrasauce> is there one that isnt hxd??
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2020-12-25T12:34:10 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: some devices expect/require different pullup strengths, and don't play well with others,
2020-12-25T12:34:22 < karlp> if you switch them around, does it move with deivces, or with position'
2020-12-25T12:39:11 < PaulFertser> karlp: can you please clarify what kind of daisy chaining is meant here? Just the idea of having relatively long wires between the devices, but all of them still connected in parallel?
2020-12-25T12:49:45 < karlp> I took ColdKeyboard to just mean one bus at all, not just a single device
2020-12-25T12:53:25 < PaulFertser> 'scope traces would be interesting to see.
2020-12-25T13:03:47 < karlp> indeed, but you're going to want to look at multiple plaes, and also describe what "acting weird" really means :)
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2020-12-25T13:08:13 < PaulFertser> Yes
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2020-12-25T14:29:50 < tctm> sup?
2020-12-25T14:34:07 < Steffanx> Whoa, xmas is complete now. tctm  found his way home 🥳🥳
2020-12-25T14:34:15 < Steffanx> I mean. Hi tctm 
2020-12-25T14:34:52 < tctm> thehehe, thanks :)
2020-12-25T14:34:59 < tctm> hope you´re doing well
2020-12-25T14:36:14 < Steffanx> Yeah fine fine here. What about swisserland.
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2020-12-25T14:52:05 < Mangy_Dog> FreeRTOS question, And Merry Christmas Im running a FT/BT810 graphics chip with gameduino library on a STM32F103. I can get it to load assets off SD card when the asset loading and draw commands are not inside a freeRTOS thread, but if its within the thread the asset load hangs. The chip uses SPI to talk to the MCU, and the SD card is on the same SPI via a different CS pin. Can anyone think 
2020-12-25T14:52:05 < Mangy_Dog> of any reason why it hangs when the commands are being triggered within a thread? What is it about freeRTOS thats killing it?
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2020-12-25T15:37:49 < Steffanx> Do you lock access to the spi bus while one is using it etc. Mangy_Dog?
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2020-12-25T15:41:52 < Steffanx> how many channels did you post that question in Mangy_Dog? .....
2020-12-25T15:48:14 < mawk> lol
2020-12-25T15:48:45 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: load a debugger and see what it hangs in precisely
2020-12-25T15:48:49 < mawk> instead of doing that blindfolded
2020-12-25T15:48:58 < mawk> debugging threading issues with printf is awful
2020-12-25T15:50:10 < mawk> you mutexed your spi peripheral right?
2020-12-25T15:50:35 < Steffanx> he wont use a debugger because sloeber tarduino
2020-12-25T15:50:36 < mawk> and what does "not in a freertos thread" mean exactly? it's in an isr?
2020-12-25T15:50:39 < mawk> lol
2020-12-25T15:56:14 < mawk> I did tickless freertos
2020-12-25T15:56:18 < mawk> because I'm a pro
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2020-12-25T15:57:00 < Steffanx> He wants to save time by using sloeber, but then wastes the saved time by not using a proper debugger.
2020-12-25T15:57:54 < kakium69> mawk: yes
2020-12-25T15:58:32 < mawk> I thought sloeber was a dutch insult
2020-12-25T15:58:35 < mawk> but actually it's a real thing
2020-12-25T15:58:47 < mawk> yes I'm a pro kakium69 ?
2020-12-25T15:59:02 < kakium69> yes
2020-12-25T15:59:26 < mawk> good
2020-12-25T15:59:36 < Steffanx> It also a dutch "insult" mawk. and it think it a perfect name for the lib.
2020-12-25T15:59:55 < mawk> what does it mean
2020-12-25T16:01:05 < mawk> now that I have freertos working with nrf52, I need to add usb
2020-12-25T16:01:20 < mawk> easier to add than I thought
2020-12-25T16:01:50 < Steffanx> "an uncivilized, filthy man" or something.
2020-12-25T16:02:05 < mawk> ah perfect yes
2020-12-25T16:03:11 < mawk> I even put nice colors in my RTT
2020-12-25T16:03:18 < mawk> with plain old console escape codes
2020-12-25T16:03:30 < mawk> with openocd rtt is piped out to a tcp port, then I look at it with netcat
2020-12-25T16:03:39 < mawk> piped into the ts command for timestamping
2020-12-25T16:04:06 < Steffanx>  > printf debugging
2020-12-25T16:04:14 < mawk> lol
2020-12-25T16:04:17 < mawk> it's not for debugging
2020-12-25T16:04:19 < mawk> it's for being pro
2020-12-25T16:04:24 < mawk> pro have nice console outputs
2020-12-25T16:05:14 < Steffanx> Yes
2020-12-25T16:05:19 < Steffanx> it is partially for debugging :P
2020-12-25T16:05:30 < mawk> noooooo
2020-12-25T16:05:32 < mawk> for logging
2020-12-25T16:05:45 < Steffanx> debugging
2020-12-25T16:12:18 < mawk> nnnooo
2020-12-25T16:12:22 < mawk> pro logging
2020-12-25T16:12:28 < mawk> >starting scheduler
2020-12-25T16:12:34 < mawk> useless but pretty logging
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2020-12-25T16:18:42 < mawk> there's really a ton of errata for nrf52
2020-12-25T16:21:40 < Steffanx> Da
2020-12-25T16:22:05 < Steffanx> At least debugging with the softdevice on is great fun
2020-12-25T16:22:11 < Steffanx> with a debugger
2020-12-25T16:23:43 < mawk> lol
2020-12-25T16:23:57 < mawk> what about softdevice + rtos?
2020-12-25T16:24:01 < mawk> does that sound even more fun?
2020-12-25T16:25:39 < Steffanx> Doesnt make it more or less fun
2020-12-25T16:27:28 < mawk> you should use rtt with openocd from now on Steffanx 
2020-12-25T16:27:33 < mawk> I bet it works even without a jlink
2020-12-25T16:27:54 < mawk> and netcat output is fun
2020-12-25T16:29:23 < jpa-> SWO is faster and takes less RAM
2020-12-25T16:29:29 < mawk> SWO isn't faster
2020-12-25T16:29:44 < mawk> maybe it is faster when you use openocd for rtt
2020-12-25T16:29:51 < mawk> but jlink claims otherwise
2020-12-25T16:29:52 < Steffanx> lol
2020-12-25T16:30:01 < jpa-> hmm, how fast is RTT with jlink?
2020-12-25T16:30:09 < Steffanx> MEGAfast
2020-12-25T16:30:56 < jpa-> SWO can run up to cpu core frequency, if you have a receiver that understands manchester coding
2020-12-25T16:30:58 < mawk> take less ram yes
2020-12-25T16:31:01 < Steffanx> segger says, depending on the buffer size kinda over 2Megabyte/second
2020-12-25T16:31:36 < jpa-> that's pretty fast, how fast do they run SWD to get it that fast?
2020-12-25T16:31:39 < Steffanx> but, with pro tools indeed
2020-12-25T16:32:00 < Steffanx> normal jewlink is only 700kilobyte/second
2020-12-25T16:32:20 < Steffanx> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/technology/about-real-time-transfer/
2020-12-25T16:32:48 < jpa-> with cheap logic analyzer and SWO, it is quite easy to get ~3MByte/s
2020-12-25T16:33:49 < Steffanx> but mooore cables.
2020-12-25T16:33:57 < jpa-> yep
2020-12-25T16:39:15 < fenugrec> so rtt is some kind of semihosting that can work without SWO ? interesting
2020-12-25T16:39:38 < jpa-> fenugrec: AFAIK rtt is basically a RAM buffer that is continuously being read by debugger over SWD
2020-12-25T16:39:55 < jpa-> semihosting does not use SWO, but on the other hand it is blocking so not really useful for anything realtime
2020-12-25T16:40:09 < fenugrec> I see
2020-12-25T16:45:05 < Steffanx> Depending on your implementation SWO is also "blocking".
2020-12-25T16:45:20 < Steffanx> its not buffered like RTT
2020-12-25T16:46:45 < jpa-> well if you want to print a lot of text to it, yeah, but if you put binary values in separate channels then it doesn't block
2020-12-25T16:47:20 < Steffanx> True
2020-12-25T16:47:39 < Steffanx> but mawk is mainly using it for printf debugging
2020-12-25T16:47:49 < jpa-> ah
2020-12-25T16:48:09 < jpa-> does it format printf on the host or on the device? even printf() formatting is pretty slow
2020-12-25T16:48:17 < Steffanx> And instead of using uart he moved to RTT, although he wasnt convinced earlier previous week.
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2020-12-25T16:48:59 < Steffanx> RTT can do some formatting on the host, but its pretty limited and heavily depends on the tools.
2020-12-25T16:49:12 < Steffanx> Does openocd support that?
2020-12-25T16:49:22 < Steffanx> enlighten us mr mawk
2020-12-25T16:53:02 < Mangy_Dog> freertos thread as in xTaskCreateThread
2020-12-25T16:53:05 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2020-12-25T16:53:08 < Mangy_Dog> xTaskCreate
2020-12-25T16:53:19 < karlp> Steffanx: pretty sure oocd just gets the stream out, all the rest is host side tooling.
2020-12-25T16:53:23 < Mangy_Dog> and yes id love to run a debugger
2020-12-25T16:53:34 < Mangy_Dog> but steffanx is right im using sloebar so not possible
2020-12-25T16:53:50 < Mangy_Dog> and im kinda stuck in arduino because the graphics chip library is limited to an arduino enviroment
2020-12-25T16:54:41 < jpa-> you can use gdb even if you compile your code in an IDE
2020-12-25T16:54:49 < Steffanx> Why cant you debug with this sloeber crap? If it generates some elf, you have the source files you should be able to debug SOMETHING.
2020-12-25T16:55:06 < Mangy_Dog> actually yeah it generates an elf
2020-12-25T16:55:21 < Steffanx> karlp, depends on what mr mawk is doing ofcourse and how he's using it.
2020-12-25T16:55:33 < karlp> also, re blockign swo, you can configure it to block or not block.
2020-12-25T16:55:37 < Mangy_Dog> Im also not in linux so most of the open ocd? obd? what ever its called......
2020-12-25T16:55:41 < Mangy_Dog> is linux based
2020-12-25T16:55:57 < karlp> it's totally not, but it wouldn't be like you toir ead the docs or anything anyway, so :)
2020-12-25T16:56:13 < Mangy_Dog> i tried running something before but i really didnt know what i was doing and i wasted a week trying to get it to work
2020-12-25T16:56:25 < Steffanx> timeforanewspacebar karlp
2020-12-25T16:56:43 < Steffanx> ozone <3
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2020-12-25T16:57:12 < karlp> yeah, I took the o-ring dampeners off, that i'd pu ton to make it a bit quieter, but I kinda feel it's worse like this.
2020-12-25T16:57:24 < karlp> even though this is how it is by default.
2020-12-25T16:57:48 < karlp> put another way, I'm not buying a mechanical keyboard again I don't think.
2020-12-25T16:58:01 < karlp> pros: usb 3 hub, nice media keys, cons: the keyboard 
2020-12-25T16:58:30 < PaulFertser> Can't you change the keys to something you like more (quiter?), are they socketed or soldered?
2020-12-25T16:59:24 < karlp> no fuckign way am I going to manualyl buy and then replace them all anyway.
2020-12-25T16:59:58 < karlp> it's ok for the most part, maybe I'm just getting old computer man typing anyway.
2020-12-25T17:00:17 < karlp> just can't type as well as my brain thinks it can...
2020-12-25T17:19:23 < Steffanx> onho, grandpa karlp?
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2020-12-25T18:11:24 < englishman> what keyboard do you have karl
2020-12-25T18:23:19 < mawk> 15:48 <Steffanx> RTT can do some formatting on the host, but its pretty limited and heavily depends on the tools.
2020-12-25T18:23:21 < mawk> superfake
2020-12-25T18:23:25 < mawk> I just used linux terminal control codes
2020-12-25T18:23:29 < mawk> work right out of the box
2020-12-25T18:23:35 < mawk> and the segger rtt viewer uses the same control codes
2020-12-25T18:25:34 < mawk> with openocd yeah like I said I output the rtt to a port, and just output it to terminal piped through ts for timestamping
2020-12-25T18:28:42 < mawk> let me show
2020-12-25T18:30:31 < mawk> https://asciinema.org/a/TK87H5S25gZ0P0p6X6bim690E
2020-12-25T18:32:17 < BrainDamage> mawk: instead of asciienema, you can use https://github.com/nbedos/termtosvg it creates an animated svg which pretty much all browsers support without need of js
2020-12-25T18:32:34 < mawk> ah nice
2020-12-25T18:33:29 < mawk> the term reset is just "\033[2J\033[1;1H\033[0m" to reset the screen for instance, and then colors/bold is like usual on linux
2020-12-25T18:34:10 < mawk> jpa-: the most desirable feature of rtt is I guess that it doesn't interfere with realtime stuff
2020-12-25T18:34:20 < mawk> if your target supports background memory access with debugger
2020-12-25T18:36:48 < mawk> Steffanx: wasn't the purpose of sloppybar to be a super pro IDE for arduino? why doesn't it have a debugger????
2020-12-25T18:37:33 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: I compiled and ran openocd on windows very easily
2020-12-25T18:37:41 < mawk> what did you do during a whole week?
2020-12-25T18:41:27 < mawk> want me to try for you??
2020-12-25T18:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> mawk i might take you up on that offer
2020-12-25T18:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> but give me a few days first
2020-12-25T18:44:38 < Mangy_Dog> i want to try a few more things and then try cleaning up my code a little for your comsumption as its a right mess right now as ive been moving things back and forth all over trying to figure thigns out
2020-12-25T18:45:20 < mawk> you need a debugger
2020-12-25T18:45:26 < mawk> cleaning up your code isn't the first step
2020-12-25T18:45:34 < mawk> the first step is getting a proper dev environment
2020-12-25T18:45:43 < mawk> and I'm extremely surprized that your IDE cannot do debugging
2020-12-25T18:45:52 < mawk> what is it good for then? it's just a text editor?
2020-12-25T18:45:57 < mawk> how do you program the target?
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2020-12-25T18:50:27 < karlp> englishman: das keyboard 4.
2020-12-25T18:51:31 < karlp> the most desireable feature of rtt is that it works on m0...
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2020-12-25T18:56:09 < jpa-> mawk: well, formatting printf() stuff into a buffer in the middle of fast realtime stuff *does* interfere
2020-12-25T18:56:45 < jpa-> i've had IRQ handlers where even writing to the ITM registers was slow enough that i couldn't log everything simultaneously
2020-12-25T18:59:25 < mawk> yeah of course
2020-12-25T18:59:35 < mawk> but if we ignore printf overhead, rtt is faster than anything else
2020-12-25T18:59:38 < mawk> swo, semihosting, uart
2020-12-25T19:00:01 < mawk> so if you have constraints then I guess it makes sense to optimize out the printf and put binary data instead or someting
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2020-12-25T19:05:14 < jpa-> i'm still not sure why you consider rtt faster than itm/swo, considering the latter is literally just one register write per value and can be made to run at higher baudrate
2020-12-25T19:05:40 < jpa-> i agree that rtt is probably better for printf() debugging, but that is not very fast to begin with
2020-12-25T19:05:59 < mawk> I just looked at the benchmarks provided by segger
2020-12-25T19:06:21 < mawk> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/technology/about-real-time-transfer/
2020-12-25T19:07:11 < jpa-> doesn't seem to compare against swo
2020-12-25T19:07:46 < jpa-> ah in that one bar graph
2020-12-25T19:08:34 < jpa-> "Overhead for printf() calls removed." yet they include cost for waiting for SWO - which would normally get lost because it can happen in parallel with printf() formatting
2020-12-25T19:09:26 < jpa-> but yes, when printing text SWO is not very good because there is no easy way to use a ring buffer with it
2020-12-25T19:09:43 < jpa-> all the more reason not to bother with printf() inside any realtime stuff
2020-12-25T19:16:45 < Mangy_Dog> mawk its sloeber, which is an eclipse based ide with linking and what not... but designed for arduino based projects and arduino cores...
2020-12-25T19:17:14 < Mangy_Dog> where you can setup your project with target boards and what not.. in my case rogerclarks stm32duino core (before stm32 took over and make there own core)
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2020-12-25T19:21:25 < mawk> that doesn't tell me why it cannot do debugging Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-25T19:21:51 < mawk> yeah jpa- 
2020-12-25T19:22:19 < mawk> just build openocd Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-25T19:22:50 < mawk> get cygwin and follow standard instructions
2020-12-25T19:23:44 < Steffanx> Mawk, i meant you can do printf("%d", someint) and itll do that formatting on the host
2020-12-25T19:24:17 < mawk> ah no
2020-12-25T19:24:26 < mawk> there's no support for that
2020-12-25T19:24:34 < mawk> or could be if you do your own printf
2020-12-25T19:25:22 < Steffanx> Yes, there is some segger print that does it
2020-12-25T19:25:52 < PaulFertser> mawk: in fact, one of the ST devs implemented a github action (?) that auto-builds a native OpenOCD binary for every commit.
2020-12-25T19:26:24 < mawk> I use the segger printf Steffanx 
2020-12-25T19:26:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: so there should be no need for Cygwin (and in fact, for at least 5 years there already was no reason to use Cygwin for OpenOCD)
2020-12-25T19:26:29 < mawk> it's like the normal printf
2020-12-25T19:26:49 < mawk> is it easy though PaulFertser ?
2020-12-25T19:27:49 < Mangy_Dog> well i can do serial prints out for my basic debugging
2020-12-25T19:28:07 < Mangy_Dog> thats how i found that it just hang at the file load call for the assets
2020-12-25T19:28:14 < mawk> I meant just mingw distribution with gcc PaulFertser , not especially cygwin
2020-12-25T19:28:33 < Mangy_Dog> id rather have full debug with all register states and line by line debugging
2020-12-25T19:28:43 < mawk> the sooner you setup gdb, the better
2020-12-25T19:29:33 < Mangy_Dog> im sure
2020-12-25T19:29:41 < Mangy_Dog> oh actually i lie
2020-12-25T19:29:43 < PaulFertser> mawk: what is easy, self-building native windows OpenOCD? Easy on GNU/Linux with cross-compiling script, yes. Easy on Windows with MSYS2, yes.
2020-12-25T19:30:19 < Mangy_Dog> im not using sloeber directly... im actually using eclipse 4.18 but with sloeber plugin
2020-12-25T19:30:29 < mawk> yeah I meant msys PaulFertser not cygwin
2020-12-25T19:30:55 < mawk> yeah same thing Mangy_Dog , you should have debugging support in your super pro ide no? anyway you will need openocd for it probably
2020-12-25T19:31:36 < Mangy_Dog> super pro ide................
2020-12-25T19:31:40 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-12-25T19:32:04 < Mangy_Dog> ill poke you got info later... currently cooking xmas dinner
2020-12-25T19:32:32 < mawk> you don't have a wife for that Mangy_Dog ?
2020-12-25T19:32:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337706779708489728/792076935877885972/1608916254294.jpg
2020-12-25T19:32:44 < Mangy_Dog> 1 im gay, 2 im stuck at home with brother and dad
2020-12-25T19:32:52 < mawk> get a gay wife
2020-12-25T19:34:06 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect ill be the gay wife
2020-12-25T19:34:10 < Mangy_Dog> im rather good at cooking
2020-12-25T19:34:14 < mawk> lol
2020-12-25T19:35:48 < PaulFertser> mawk: msys is iirc no good, depends on old mingw without C99 support or something.
2020-12-25T19:36:09 < mawk> msys2
2020-12-25T19:36:25 < mawk> Mangy_Dog => gay 'm' dong
2020-12-25T19:36:39 < PaulFertser> With msys2 self-compiling OpenOCD is about as easy as using Arch Linux I guess.
2020-12-25T19:36:43 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-25T19:36:47 < mawk> that's how I did it on windows
2020-12-25T19:36:50 < mawk> took me a few minutes
2020-12-25T19:36:57 < mawk> so do it too Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-25T19:41:36 < PaulFertser> Or just use the windows binaries from github.
2020-12-25T19:42:45 < englishman> karlp: holy shit "starting at $200"
2020-12-25T19:42:57 < englishman> and I thought I was a moneyed westerner
2020-12-25T19:44:06 < englishman> Supercharged Backlit Smart RGB Aluminum Linux
2020-12-25T19:44:21 < karlp> ah, I have an odler one, but yeah, it was kinda pricy.
2020-12-25T19:44:32 < karlp> I'd been looking at mech keyboards for years, decided to buy it as apresent for myself.
2020-12-25T19:45:09 < karlp> even went and made custom keycaps at https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/products/keycaps/keycap-set.html to have icelandic keys,
2020-12-25T19:45:17 < karlp> and, well, I don't feel it was worth it :)
2020-12-25T19:46:13 < englishman> there are probably good mechanical keyboards but this one specifically looks pretty meme-y
2020-12-25T19:47:04 < englishman> I like the ms sculpt keyboard
2020-12-25T19:47:28 < karlp> well, it was well regarded, but most mech keyboards are "here's a skeleton with cherry caps! and no fucking media keys!"
2020-12-25T19:47:37 < karlp> and I'm like, "well, I really _like_ having dedicated media keys"
2020-12-25T19:47:46 < karlp> and the volume knob is really nice, and the usb3 hub is really nice.
2020-12-25T19:48:13 < englishman> Das Keyboard Limited Edition Escape Key Artisan Keycap $60
2020-12-25T19:48:34 < karlp> yeah, that all sounds memey as shit
2020-12-25T19:48:38 < englishman> yes the usb3 hub is nice, reminds me of those old macs
2020-12-25T19:48:52 < PaulFertser> I recently assembled a 40 % split keyboard with f303, using gerbers from someone's github repo (jlcpcb + lscs). Without a good case though and not being able to model something myself it seems to be a pretty crappy and unusable keyboard.
2020-12-25T19:49:31 < karlp> but hey, look, I made a 3d model of a module: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ynZGj.png
2020-12-25T19:49:48 < jpa-> very photorealistic
2020-12-25T19:50:06 < karlp> yeah, the castellations looked better before it got exportted
2020-12-25T19:50:52 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gKqVi.png
2020-12-25T19:52:11 < karlp> no silk either
2020-12-25T19:55:23 < Mangy_Dog> kicad can export better than that D:
2020-12-25T19:55:29 < Mangy_Dog> you can also do a file export
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2020-12-25T22:38:56 < karlp> well, I just cliked export as step, then assigned that step to the footprint
2020-12-25T22:39:03  * karlp shrugs, it's enough for now.
2020-12-25T22:41:54 < Mangy_Dog> I think there export as vrml
2020-12-25T22:41:59 < Mangy_Dog> and it takes the models
2020-12-25T22:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> and i also think theres a way to grab the tracks, otherwise export tracks as svgs and convert them into textures
2020-12-25T22:47:09 < karlp> hrm, am I meant to be putting the groundplane all the way under the uFL connector?
2020-12-25T22:47:11 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/805Zs.png
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2020-12-25T22:48:10 < Steffanx> No little xmas dinner for the karlp?
2020-12-25T22:49:42 < karlp> chrismast was yesterday
2020-12-25T22:50:37 < Steffanx> oh icelanders are also like that.
2020-12-25T22:51:54 < qyx> like what
2020-12-25T22:52:13 < qyx> christmas is 24th of Dec here too
2020-12-25T22:52:24 < Steffanx> christmas eve-ing
2020-12-25T22:52:58 < Steffanx> Here its 1st christmas day today and tomorrow is 2nd./
2020-12-25T22:53:13 < karlp> yes, today is chrismast day, and tomorrow is "second of chrismas"
2020-12-25T22:53:28 < karlp> but today was just eat leftovers and candy and chocolate and biscuits and stay in your pajamas
2020-12-25T22:53:35 < Steffanx> :)
2020-12-25T22:53:43 < karlp> one girl crashed out early, other's abotu too,
2020-12-25T22:53:47 < Steffanx> "and stay in your pajamas" sounds like very other day to me :D
2020-12-25T22:53:55 < karlp> will watch a bad movie soon...
2020-12-25T22:53:58 < Steffanx> *every
2020-12-25T22:54:14 < karlp> I feel like kicad 3d preview used to include traces...
2020-12-25T22:54:27 < Steffanx> I re-watched home alone 1&2 already. And i dont recall i have ever seen mr trump in the 2nd before.
2020-12-25T22:57:11 < Steffanx> Why you go for that module btw karlp. And not just a USB dongle with the same chipset? Or is the goal really to try the module?
2020-12-25T22:57:39 < karlp> it's really to try the module.
2020-12-25T22:57:49 < qyx> karlp: it does
2020-12-25T22:57:53 < karlp> it's one of the most cost effective modules for bt+wifi I can find,
2020-12-25T22:58:13 < qyx> hm, you can turn it off maybne
2020-12-25T22:58:17 < Steffanx> My car radio might even com with that module.
2020-12-25T22:58:30 < karlp> anmd I thought just dropping it on a little board with a usb connector would be super easy way of testing it, before wodlering it down on a bigger board taht isn't nearly finished yet
2020-12-25T22:58:54 < karlp> so... ground flood around and under the uFL or what? :)
2020-12-25T22:59:06 < karlp> does it matter if you're feeding it to a ufl?
2020-12-25T22:59:31 < karlp> I'm kinda like yolo, as long as it's not too horrific.
2020-12-25T23:06:52 < Steffanx> i would say yes, impedance matching and stuff?
2020-12-25T23:07:14 < Steffanx> yes as in gnd plane(s)
2020-12-25T23:07:49 < karlp> I'm not calculating the microstrip line for the 1.6mm board anyway.... though I guess I should.
2020-12-25T23:08:04 < Steffanx> :P
2020-12-25T23:08:22 < Streaker> what's the difference between a ground plane and an air plane?
2020-12-25T23:10:27 < Steffanx> idk about India but .. tell us Streaker
2020-12-25T23:10:46 < karlp> I guess I coul djust do 3mm microstrip for 50ohm on 1.6mm fr4 anyway....
2020-12-25T23:10:50 < CatCow97> Streaker I have no answers that aren't trollish enough to get me banned from most channels lol
2020-12-25T23:11:08 < Streaker> I just thought of the question. Still thinking of an answer.
2020-12-25T23:11:16 < Steffanx> CatCow97: unlikely.
2020-12-25T23:11:25 < Steffanx> ##stm32 isnt most channels
2020-12-25T23:11:34 < CatCow97> lol
2020-12-25T23:11:52 < CatCow97> well least offensive answer is ground planes don't crash
2020-12-25T23:11:53 < Steffanx> but you obviously havent been around for long enough
2020-12-25T23:12:03 < CatCow97> nah im pretty new to this channel
2020-12-25T23:12:41 < CatCow97> figured it would be a good place to lurk until I get around to trying something with the F0 discovery board I got
2020-12-25T23:13:02 < karlp> 3mm is absurd...
2020-12-25T23:13:26 < Streaker> CatCow97: that's what I thought 3 years ago. Now I can't find my Discovery board.
2020-12-25T23:13:30 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iFM8T.png
2020-12-25T23:14:39 < CatCow97> Streaker yeah I know how that goes. So many projects that are sitting in pieces in boxes in the basement
2020-12-25T23:15:11 < CatCow97> heck, just the other night I finally got around to playing with an atmega328 board that I picked up two months ago
2020-12-25T23:15:31 < CatCow97> gonna try to turn it into an SMBus battery reader
2020-12-25T23:16:33 < Steffanx> Go stm32.
2020-12-25T23:16:40 < Steffanx> forget about atmel/microchip
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2020-12-25T23:17:48 < CatCow97> I was actually thinking of doing the same thing with both boards and comparing how they are to get up an running for that
2020-12-25T23:18:19 < CatCow97> but they are so far different
2020-12-25T23:18:34 < CatCow97> an SMT32F0 Disco board vs an Oak Dev Mega Sapling, hell of a difference there
2020-12-25T23:19:25 < CatCow97> horribly disorganized at the moment, I get the feeling I'm gonna have to reorder some things that I know are packed away in boxes somewhere
2020-12-25T23:21:49 < englishman> Streaker: air plane is a subtype of ground plane.
2020-12-25T23:22:09 < englishman> caused by poor weather, poor maintenance or lack of funds.
2020-12-25T23:22:15 < CatCow97> englishman wouldn't that just be an elevated ground plane :-P
2020-12-25T23:22:26 < Streaker> or a too hot soldering iron
2020-12-25T23:22:37 < englishman> * ground planes are caused by poor weather, poor maintenance or lack of funds.
2020-12-25T23:23:02 < Steffanx> 737 max is a ground plane...
2020-12-25T23:23:06 < englishman> yes.
2020-12-25T23:23:39 < englishman> except in USA, where safety standards are determined by secret love letters, or a coin flip, whichever is more profitable.
2020-12-25T23:23:41 < Streaker> MCAS turns an air plane into a ground plane?
2020-12-25T23:24:00 < mawk> no mcas, no flying
2020-12-25T23:25:08 < karlp> hrm, board I 've got now just has a single 10pF in series from the module to the ufl socket
2020-12-25T23:26:57 < karlp> seems a little overkill, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2YbEH.png
2020-12-25T23:27:05 < karlp> cargoculting to the max
2020-12-25T23:40:22 < englishman> arent 50r microstrips over 1.6m usually really small
2020-12-25T23:40:30 < englishman> *mm
2020-12-25T23:42:01 < jadew> englishman, the other way around
2020-12-25T23:42:48 < englishman> oh right i was thinking of a 4l
2020-12-25T23:42:55 < englishman> would that even work with 1.6mm 2l
2020-12-25T23:43:08 < jadew> it would, but it would be pretty big
--- Day changed Sat Dec 26 2020
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2020-12-26T00:18:01 < mawk> if α and β are roots of aX²+bX+c, then 1/α and 1/β are roots of cX²+bX+a
2020-12-26T00:18:03 < mawk> isn't that cool?
2020-12-26T00:20:13 < mawk> if α and β are roots of aX²+bX+c, then α² and β² are roots of a²X² - (b²+bc)X + c²
2020-12-26T00:23:23 < Steffanx> Thanks
2020-12-26T00:23:35 < mawk> did you try it?
2020-12-26T00:24:30 < Steffanx> ....
2020-12-26T00:24:34 < mawk> φ root of X²-X-1, so 1/φ root of -X²-X+1
2020-12-26T00:24:36 < mawk> -1/phi**2-1/phi+1
2020-12-26T00:24:38 < mawk> Out[3]: 0.0
2020-12-26T00:24:41 < mawk> magic
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2020-12-26T00:32:35 < mawk> sorry it's b²-2ac and not b²+bc
2020-12-26T00:32:37 < mawk> small mistake
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2020-12-26T00:41:35 < Steffanx> Damn, now im confused mawk
2020-12-26T00:41:42 < mawk> :(
2020-12-26T00:43:16 < mawk> if p and q are roots of X²-bX+c, then p + q = b, p² + q² = b² - 2c, p³ + q³ = b³ - 3bc, and so on
2020-12-26T00:43:19 < mawk> isn't if fascinating?
2020-12-26T00:43:37 < mawk> newton sums I believe it's called
2020-12-26T00:44:54 < karlp> englishman: yeah, calculators say 3mm wide for 50ohm over 1.6mm
2020-12-26T00:45:22 < karlp> however, jlcpcb will do 0.6mm for the same $2 price as 1.6mm.
2020-12-26T00:45:31 < karlp> seems pretty flimsy, but good enough
2020-12-26T00:45:56 < karlp> given it's $2 per board, I guess I could just build up a few, but I didn't order tthat many sample modules, and it's not really an RF test anyway, just a functionliaty test
2020-12-26T00:50:48 < qyx> for a 5mm trace, just fukit
2020-12-26T00:51:06 < qyx> I usually pick whatever I like, 0.6 or 0.8 mm
2020-12-26T00:51:49 < karlp> "yolo" was my default position, until I started overthinking.
2020-12-26T00:52:12 < karlp> shipping is $18! might as well make 4, throw away 3 of them....
2020-12-26T01:38:17 < Steffanx> Hm
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2020-12-26T06:09:20 < englishman> 0.6mm is pretty nice actually
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2020-12-26T13:33:13 < zyp> mawk, so how do I find x given a**x % b = c
2020-12-26T13:40:16 < Steffanx> Mawk wont wake up for another 8 hours
2020-12-26T13:42:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: did you spike his drink again?
2020-12-26T13:42:48 < Steffanx> He doesnt need me for that
2020-12-26T13:43:05 < jpa-> yes yes, we all know *what* he needs you for
2020-12-26T13:43:28 < Steffanx> Nah, he has a german friend for that. 
2020-12-26T13:44:20 < Steffanx> I wouldnt betray you jpa- 
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2020-12-26T13:49:41 < Steffanx> Im glad to see you made it through another xmas jpa-  
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2020-12-26T14:47:59 < mawk> zyp: 
2020-12-26T14:48:01 < mawk> zyp: 
2020-12-26T14:48:03 < mawk> zyp: 
2020-12-26T14:49:01 < mawk> it's the discrete logarithm problem
2020-12-26T14:49:05 < mawk> there's no way to find it
2020-12-26T14:49:25 < mawk> if you find a way, then ECC is broken
2020-12-26T14:50:02 < mawk> but if b is small we can maybe do something
2020-12-26T14:50:15 < mawk> depending how a looks
2020-12-26T14:54:07 < mawk> say b = 29, so φ(b) = 28, let's say you find π a primitive root and you know a = π^k, c = π^l, then you have π^(kx) = π^l, so kx = l mod 28, so x = k⁻¹l mod 28
2020-12-26T14:54:29 < mawk> so, that's only in the case you can find a primitive root; if you can't then no idea
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2020-12-26T14:55:58 < mawk> you can find one if b = 2, 4, p^k or 2p^k, with p an odd prime
2020-12-26T14:57:06 < mawk> but then the problem is just as hard, how do you find k such that a = π^k ?
2020-12-26T15:00:06 < mawk> at least with a primitive root like this you can precompute a table only for π
2020-12-26T15:00:11 < mawk> given that b stays fixed
2020-12-26T15:00:19 < mawk> and you can find for any pair (a; c) easily
2020-12-26T15:00:26 < mawk> that's the only perk I can see
2020-12-26T15:06:42 < Mangy_Dog> well i think i found what was breaking the asset loader in freertos
2020-12-26T15:07:17 < Mangy_Dog> The "configMINIMAL_STACK_SIZE" isnt calculating the correct minimal size 
2020-12-26T15:07:25 < Mangy_Dog> and basically the thread runs out of ram
2020-12-26T15:07:49 < Mangy_Dog> i double the default stack size and its working
2020-12-26T15:13:01 < Mangy_Dog> yep looks like that is it
2020-12-26T15:13:17 < Mangy_Dog> wish i randomly tried increasing stack size before D:
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2020-12-26T15:15:35 < jpa-> Steffanx: easiest xmas ever, no family visits
2020-12-26T15:15:56 < Steffanx> Yeah, good example for the coming years
2020-12-26T15:16:42 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: "configMINIMAL_STACK_SIZE" means the smallest configurable stack size - it is not actually trying to compute anything about your code
2020-12-26T15:17:44 < mawk> you're the one that set this variable Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-26T15:17:48 < mawk> if it's too small, then change it
2020-12-26T15:19:29 < jpa-> or rather, use a stack size specific to each task, instead of changing the MINIMAL_STACK_SIZE unnecessarily
2020-12-26T15:20:05 < mawk> it's just a variable for use by the application developer anyway jpa- 
2020-12-26T15:20:09 < mawk> it's not used in the freertos source
2020-12-26T15:20:26 < mawk> ah yes it's used but only for the idle task
2020-12-26T15:20:39 < mawk> which if you don't define idle hooks probably doesn't do much
2020-12-26T15:24:52 < Mangy_Dog> ahh i missread the docs then
2020-12-26T15:24:59 < Mangy_Dog> well tbh at least i know now
2020-12-26T15:26:18 < mawk> so did you get openocd now Mangy_Dog ?
2020-12-26T15:26:19 < Mangy_Dog> it was also used in the example code for freertos so thats why i was sticking with it.
2020-12-26T15:26:24 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-12-26T15:26:44 < Mangy_Dog> i only just started looking at my code again this last hour
2020-12-26T15:27:14 < mawk> which debug probe do you have?
2020-12-26T15:27:18 < Steffanx> mawk:  he wont dont it. Just give up
2020-12-26T15:27:27 < mawk> yes he will
2020-12-26T15:27:31 < Mangy_Dog> ]stlink v2 china edition dongle
2020-12-26T15:27:32 < mawk> he said he agrees that I help him do it
2020-12-26T15:27:40 < mawk> ok well I guess that works with openocd 
2020-12-26T15:27:40 < Mangy_Dog> ^^^
2020-12-26T15:27:46 < mawk> just needs libusb or something
2020-12-26T15:27:53 < Mangy_Dog> got it
2020-12-26T15:28:26 < mawk> https://sysprogs.com/getfile/1360/openocd-20201221.7z
2020-12-26T15:28:30 < mawk> it's a precompiled version
2020-12-26T15:28:36 < mawk> unpack using https://www.7-zip.org/
2020-12-26T15:28:42 < Mangy_Dog> dling
2020-12-26T15:30:09 < mawk> and then well that probably works right out of the box
2020-12-26T15:30:13 < mawk> unpack somewhere, add that dir to PATH 
2020-12-26T15:30:16 < mawk> you know how?
2020-12-26T15:31:09 < Mangy_Dog> if you mean global paths, no
2020-12-26T15:31:31 < mawk> it's in the GUI
2020-12-26T15:31:40 < mawk> win+r, control.exe
2020-12-26T15:31:46 < mawk> to open the old control panel
2020-12-26T15:31:49 < mawk> then go to system or whatever
2020-12-26T15:31:59 < Mangy_Dog> also had openocd already installed it seems
2020-12-26T15:32:01 < mawk> then advanced system configuration probably in the left sidebar
2020-12-26T15:32:04 < mawk> what
2020-12-26T15:32:10 < mawk> doesn't matter, use that one
2020-12-26T15:32:12 < Mangy_Dog> I deleted it and installed the one you linked
2020-12-26T15:32:13 < mawk> it's more recent
2020-12-26T15:32:14 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-12-26T15:32:14 < mawk> good
2020-12-26T15:32:58 < mawk> so did you find how to add to path?
2020-12-26T15:33:08 < mawk> https://www.architectryan.com/2018/03/17/add-to-the-path-on-windows-10/
2020-12-26T15:33:10 < mawk> for win10
2020-12-26T15:33:44 < Mangy_Dog> enviroment varibles?
2020-12-26T15:33:46 < mawk> you don't really have to, but it's convenient
2020-12-26T15:33:48 < mawk> yes
2020-12-26T15:34:04 < jly> thankyou very much
2020-12-26T15:34:08 < Mangy_Dog> what do i want to call it?
2020-12-26T15:34:17 < mawk> edit the PATH variable
2020-12-26T15:34:21 < mawk> don't add a new one
2020-12-26T15:35:21 < Mangy_Dog> just to the openocd dir? or one of the dirs inside?
2020-12-26T15:37:27 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_2020122614372229.png
2020-12-26T15:37:33 < mawk> what do you mean?
2020-12-26T15:37:43 < mawk> if you see openocd already in the list of PATH entries, then delete it, and add a new one
2020-12-26T15:37:45 < mawk> like on my screen
2020-12-26T15:38:05 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i put it in
2020-12-26T15:38:14 < Mangy_Dog> but i aimed at the directory with the three folders
2020-12-26T15:38:22 < mawk> what?
2020-12-26T15:38:23 < Mangy_Dog> or do i want to aim to one of them?
2020-12-26T15:38:36 < mawk> what do you mean?
2020-12-26T15:38:43 < mawk> do not modify existing entries, add a new one
2020-12-26T15:38:53 < Mangy_Dog> added new path to the list
2020-12-26T15:38:56 < mawk> yes
2020-12-26T15:39:07 < mawk> you need to aim where openocd.exe is
2020-12-26T15:39:22 < Mangy_Dog> right
2020-12-26T15:40:03 < Mangy_Dog> so openocd/bin
2020-12-26T15:40:47 < mawk> yes
2020-12-26T15:40:58 < Mangy_Dog> right path set
2020-12-26T15:43:34 < Mangy_Dog> what now?
2020-12-26T15:46:57 < mawk> well now you have openocd
2020-12-26T15:47:02 < mawk> try to connect
2020-12-26T15:47:08 < mawk> open a cmd.exe, type opencd
2020-12-26T15:47:09 < Mangy_Dog> joy.... how do i run it :)
2020-12-26T15:47:11 < mawk> see if it's detected
2020-12-26T15:47:22 < mawk> which board do you have? which chip?
2020-12-26T15:47:29 < Mangy_Dog> f103
2020-12-26T15:47:39 < mawk> it's a custom board?
2020-12-26T15:47:45 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2020-12-26T15:48:47 < Steffanx> jly: 
2020-12-26T15:48:55 < Steffanx> Happpppyyyy 2nd xmas day
2020-12-26T15:49:02 < Mangy_Dog> hmm even with path set it couldnt open directly.... cd'ed into the directory
2020-12-26T15:49:04 < Mangy_Dog> annnd
2020-12-26T15:49:14 < mawk> did you restart cmd.exe ?
2020-12-26T15:49:23 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/792388578700558336/unknown.png
2020-12-26T15:49:37 < mawk> yeah perfect
2020-12-26T15:49:45 < mawk> openocd -c interface/stlink.cfg -c target/stm32f1x.cfg 
2020-12-26T15:49:47 < mawk> try this
2020-12-26T15:49:51 < mawk> assuming your stlink is properly connected
2020-12-26T15:50:23 < Mangy_Dog> invalid command name "interface/stlink.cfg"
2020-12-26T15:51:13 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: it's -f, not -c
2020-12-26T15:51:22 < PaulFertser> In both cases
2020-12-26T15:52:20 < mawk> yes sorry
2020-12-26T15:52:45 < mawk> open control.exe, go to applications, then "install windows components" or whatever it's called Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-26T15:52:48 < mawk> and enable telnet
2020-12-26T15:52:58 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/792389479067156510/unknown.png
2020-12-26T15:52:59 < Steffanx> 🤬
2020-12-26T15:53:31 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: that last screenshot is all fine, you're ready to attach GDB from your Eclipse.
2020-12-26T15:53:51 < Mangy_Dog> gdb?
2020-12-26T15:54:02 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226145359038.png
2020-12-26T15:54:54 < mawk> no idea about eclipse, but probably it isn't too hard
2020-12-26T15:55:03 < mawk> you can select a remote gdb instance
2020-12-26T15:55:42 < Mangy_Dog> telnets already on
2020-12-26T15:55:46 < mawk> good
2020-12-26T15:56:50 < mawk> then yes either use gdb in eclipse or in command line now, you're ready to debug
2020-12-26T15:56:52 < Mangy_Dog> so how do i run GDB?
2020-12-26T15:57:07 < Mangy_Dog> would be nice to see line by line execution
2020-12-26T15:57:12 < Mangy_Dog> in the ide
2020-12-26T15:57:21 < mawk> well look around the debugger settings in the ide
2020-12-26T15:57:27 < mawk> you're supposed to specify a remote gdb server
2020-12-26T15:57:38 < mawk> you will use 127.0.0.1 port 3333
2020-12-26T15:57:42 < mawk> and that's it
2020-12-26T15:58:14 < Mangy_Dog> this is assuming theres a tool in this ide righ tnow
2020-12-26T15:58:15 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2020-12-26T15:59:31 < mawk> well it's eclipse
2020-12-26T15:59:36 < mawk> it's already supports debugging
2020-12-26T15:59:59 < mawk> just click around
2020-12-26T16:00:52 < mawk> why don't you use the real sloeber ide though Mangy_Dog ? why did you take the plugin?
2020-12-26T16:00:57 < mawk> they explicitely say they don't support it
2020-12-26T16:01:22 < Mangy_Dog> the plugin turned out to be just as up to date and eclipse was MORE up to date
2020-12-26T16:01:26 < Mangy_Dog> i was having issues with it before
2020-12-26T16:01:49 < Mangy_Dog> brb one sec
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2020-12-26T16:06:18 < Steffanx> https://eclipse-embed-cdt.github.io/debug/openocd/
2020-12-26T16:06:51 < Steffanx> although a bit outdated
2020-12-26T16:07:24 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226150721257.png
2020-12-26T16:07:26 < mawk> first time I run this shit
2020-12-26T16:07:34 < mawk> I even installed java 8 as it wanted
2020-12-26T16:08:04 < Steffanx> thats what you deserve
2020-12-26T16:10:20 < mawk> you can specify an openocd path Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-26T16:10:22 < mawk> in your "sloeber" crap
2020-12-26T16:11:28 < mawk> there's a "gdb openocd debugging" application type
2020-12-26T16:13:30 < Steffanx> +---------------
2020-12-26T16:13:37 < Steffanx> whoops
2020-12-26T16:13:53 < mawk> so, you set the openocd path in settings Mangy_Dog , ok?
2020-12-26T16:14:24 < mawk> you can either let eclipse launch openocd, or launch an openocd console on the side and use the remote port
2020-12-26T16:16:16 < Mangy_Dog> back
2020-12-26T16:16:19 < Mangy_Dog> sorry i had to go to the loo
2020-12-26T16:16:26 < Mangy_Dog> and then went to make a coffee
2020-12-26T16:17:21 < Steffanx> One for me too please
2020-12-26T16:17:40  * Mangy_Dog pours a cup
2020-12-26T16:17:42 < Mangy_Dog> its rather strong
2020-12-26T16:17:58 < mawk> click run → debug configuration Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-26T16:18:25 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226151821548.png
2020-12-26T16:18:25 < Mangy_Dog> nothing there
2020-12-26T16:18:28 < mawk> what?
2020-12-26T16:18:30 < Mangy_Dog> just external tools
2020-12-26T16:18:35 < Steffanx> Stronger than fishermen's friend Mangy_Dog ?
2020-12-26T16:18:37 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-26T16:18:40 < mawk> so delete your eclipse stuff
2020-12-26T16:18:43 < mawk> and install sloeber properly
2020-12-26T16:18:55 < mawk> http://eclipse.baeyens.it/stable.php?OS=Windows
2020-12-26T16:19:16 < mawk> are you running the debug perspective Mangy_Dog ?
2020-12-26T16:19:20 < Mangy_Dog> already installed
2020-12-26T16:19:23 < mawk> well then use it
2020-12-26T16:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> just loading it 
2020-12-26T16:19:26 < mawk> instead of using eclipse
2020-12-26T16:19:28 < mawk> good
2020-12-26T16:19:37 < Mangy_Dog> same stuff
2020-12-26T16:19:38 < Mangy_Dog> nothing there
2020-12-26T16:20:18 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226152014261.png
2020-12-26T16:20:21 < mawk> open the debug perspective
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2020-12-26T16:20:52 < mawk> windows → perspective → open perspective → other
2020-12-26T16:20:57 < mawk> and select debug
2020-12-26T16:20:58 < Mangy_Dog> right
2020-12-26T16:20:58 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-12-26T16:21:10 < Mangy_Dog> that is also likely working in normal eclipse too if i knew about that before :p
2020-12-26T16:21:12 < mawk> close the "welcome" tab if you have it, it clobbers the debug stuff
2020-12-26T16:21:20 < mawk> it probably needs plugins
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2020-12-26T16:23:22 < Mangy_Dog> ok in run debug configuration
2020-12-26T16:23:25 < mawk> ok
2020-12-26T16:23:38 < mawk> so you have the same as in my screen?
2020-12-26T16:23:43 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226151821548.png
2020-12-26T16:24:01 < Mangy_Dog> no
2020-12-26T16:24:17 < mawk> did you click run, then click on debug configuration?
2020-12-26T16:24:23 < mawk> while being in the debug perspective?
2020-12-26T16:24:31 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/792397423346974740/unknown.png
2020-12-26T16:25:00 < Mangy_Dog> sighs
2020-12-26T16:25:00 < mawk> I'm not 100% convinced you launched sloeber directly; it looks like you used some plugin instead
2020-12-26T16:25:02 < Mangy_Dog> sorry
2020-12-26T16:25:07 < Mangy_Dog> yes i have it
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2020-12-26T16:25:14 < Mangy_Dog> was in the wrong... run configuration
2020-12-26T16:26:16 < mawk> then when you are in my screen you can start configuring
2020-12-26T16:26:26 < mawk> you can either let eclipse start openocd, or use a running openocd
2020-12-26T16:26:37 < mawk> let's use a running one for now, since it's already running smoothly on your computer
2020-12-26T16:26:53 < mawk> then provide the path to arm-none-eabi-gdb
2020-12-26T16:26:56 < Mangy_Dog> i would like to set up the automatically run thing though
2020-12-26T16:27:03 < mawk> what do you mean?
2020-12-26T16:27:13 < Mangy_Dog> save me the effort of faffing about in cmd
2020-12-26T16:27:14 < mawk> ah run openocd automatically?
2020-12-26T16:27:16 < Mangy_Dog> every time
2020-12-26T16:27:18 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-12-26T16:27:29 < mawk> well if you can get it to run with the same parameters you gave on the command line, then it will work
2020-12-26T16:27:42 < mawk> openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f1x.cfg
2020-12-26T16:27:57 < mawk> probably you want to give a full path to openocd.exe
2020-12-26T16:28:03 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-12-26T16:28:06 < mawk> same for gdb, give a full path to arm-none-eabi-gdb.exe
2020-12-26T16:28:08 < mawk> and you should be good
2020-12-26T16:28:49 < mawk> if you don't have this arm-none stuff already, it's https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/open-source-software/developer-tools/gnu-toolchain/gnu-rm/downloads
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2020-12-26T16:29:31 < mawk> you probably have already the right gdb though
2020-12-26T16:29:34 < mawk> if you can already compile using that ide
2020-12-26T16:29:46 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait no
2020-12-26T16:29:51 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have openOcd debugging listed
2020-12-26T16:29:54 < Mangy_Dog> just hardware debugging
2020-12-26T16:30:06 < mawk> and you ran sloeber directly from the full version?
2020-12-26T16:30:16 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-12-26T16:30:27 < PaulFertser> For the reference, current multi-arch GDB seem to be working just fine for this kind of debugging, it provides support for all architectures in a single binary.
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2020-12-26T16:31:09 < Mangy_Dog> it also looks like sloeber has totally corrupted itself as well
2020-12-26T16:31:54 < Steffanx> dont blame the tools for user errors :P
2020-12-26T16:32:07 < mawk> ah good PaulFertser 
2020-12-26T16:32:11 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: https://eclipse-embed-cdt.github.io/
2020-12-26T16:32:20 < mawk> the thing Steffanx linked provides the openocd option I believe
2020-12-26T16:32:29 < mawk> install that
2020-12-26T16:32:37 < mawk> and for sloeber, well, do you really need its features?
2020-12-26T16:32:44 < Steffanx> yes
2020-12-26T16:32:49 < mawk> the "upload sketch" stuff
2020-12-26T16:32:54 < mawk> you could just use openocd to program it
2020-12-26T16:33:09 < mawk> but keep it if you want
2020-12-26T16:36:10 < mawk> "do you want to exit the Sloeber?" lol
2020-12-26T16:36:13 < mawk> "the Sloeber"
2020-12-26T16:36:16 < mawk> it's so famous
2020-12-26T16:36:56 < Steffanx> possible options: [Yes] [Hell Yeah] ?
2020-12-26T16:37:02 < mawk> lol
2020-12-26T16:40:01 < mawk> anyway who needs eclipse
2020-12-26T16:40:10 < mawk> I use emacs and command line openocd and gdb
2020-12-26T16:41:44 < Steffanx> ohno
2020-12-26T16:51:12 < mawk> it works flawlessly since many years
2020-12-26T16:51:14 < mawk> it doesn't "corrupt itself" or play magic tricks
2020-12-26T16:51:19 < mawk> it works the same on whatever computer I'm currently on
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2020-12-26T17:25:19 < zyp> mawk, yeah, I ended up using wolframalpha to find a solution
2020-12-26T17:37:52 < Mangy_Dog> ffs
2020-12-26T17:37:56 < Mangy_Dog> new bug with sloeber
2020-12-26T17:38:12 < Mangy_Dog> installing devstyle.... now breaks sloeber
2020-12-26T17:38:16 < Mangy_Dog> after working for a few years
2020-12-26T17:38:24 < Mangy_Dog> ie darkest theme
2020-12-26T17:38:57 < Mangy_Dog> unintalling it doesnt correct it
2020-12-26T17:42:42 < BrainDamage> does someone has some pro tip to cut a trace? I'm using a simple knife and it takes ages to clear enough material
2020-12-26T17:43:23 < jadew> BrainDamage, exacto knife to make the actual cuts
2020-12-26T17:43:40 < jadew> then with a regular cutter you slide it under the trace (a little) and slowly peal it off
2020-12-26T17:43:55 < jadew> it works great
2020-12-26T17:44:24 < jadew> I can demonstrate if you want to
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2020-12-26T17:45:39 < BrainDamage> I think I got it, thanks
2020-12-26T17:45:45 < jadew> np
2020-12-26T17:46:08 < jpa-> i make two cuts with a sharp knife and then use the edge of a flat screwdriver to scrape off the piece between the cuts
2020-12-26T17:50:45 < jadew> https://www.twitch.tv/aleatoriu
2020-12-26T17:50:57 < jadew> BrainDamage ^
2020-12-26T17:51:57 < CatCow97> whats on it
2020-12-26T17:52:03 < jadew> me
2020-12-26T17:52:11 < jadew> I'll cut a trace
2020-12-26T17:52:13 < CatCow97> are you worth watching?
2020-12-26T17:52:14 < CatCow97> lol
2020-12-26T17:54:05 < jadew> done
2020-12-26T17:54:07 < BrainDamage> is that live?
2020-12-26T17:54:13 < jadew> yeah
2020-12-26T17:54:22 < jadew> did you see it?
2020-12-26T17:56:23 < BrainDamage> jadew: saw, thanks
2020-12-26T17:56:29 < jadew> np
2020-12-26T17:57:50 < Mangy_Dog> so darkest dark devstyle plugin for eclipse now removed all the ui elements of sloeber
2020-12-26T17:57:56 < Mangy_Dog> wonderful
2020-12-26T17:58:21 < BrainDamage> since this shit works at 2.4GHz, if I didn't get enough gap, it'd screw all the char impedance
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2020-12-26T18:11:50 < BrainDamage> aww yiss, this works perfectly
2020-12-26T18:12:54 < jadew> nice
2020-12-26T18:13:11 < jadew> I only made a cut there, but you would normally make two, for the beginning and end
2020-12-26T18:14:05 < BrainDamage> jadew: this might interest you, if you take an inverted F antenna, the B type
2020-12-26T18:14:11 < BrainDamage> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/PIFA_antennae.png
2020-12-26T18:14:13 < BrainDamage> cut the traces in the T section, then ground the tip at thee opposite side, then you can directly slide on an edge sma connector
2020-12-26T18:14:19 < BrainDamage> the spiral will turn the gnd into another gnd
2020-12-26T18:17:01 < jadew> and it will behave as if it's a straight transmission line?
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2020-12-26T18:17:19 < BrainDamage> so char impedance is same as the output's device
2020-12-26T18:17:24 < jadew> neat
2020-12-26T18:19:21 < BrainDamage> and since i had a test pad before the matching filter, now i can measure the S params of the matching circuit
2020-12-26T18:19:34 < BrainDamage> jadew: yes
2020-12-26T18:19:39 < BrainDamage> it only works for freqs that are in the antenna's bandpass
2020-12-26T18:19:40 < BrainDamage> you cannot measure much further accurately, but it's a nice trick to have
2020-12-26T18:20:18 < jadew> yeah, wasn't expecting it to be wide band, but pretty cool
2020-12-26T18:21:35 < BrainDamage> it should work with A type too, but ofc you have to be more careful where you short
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2020-12-26T18:43:24  * Mangy_Dog just welps
2020-12-26T18:43:25 < Mangy_Dog> well
2020-12-26T18:43:38 < Mangy_Dog> sloeber is not only broken but its also killed the workspace for my project and now eclipse is broken too
2020-12-26T18:43:54 < Mangy_Dog> and reinstalling everything.... i cant even rebuild my project after reattaching libraries and hardware options
2020-12-26T18:43:55 < Mangy_Dog> sighs
2020-12-26T18:44:16 < Mangy_Dog> eclipse really is the most infuriating and fragile ides around
2020-12-26T18:58:10 < BrainDamage> https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
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2020-12-26T19:03:13 < Steffanx> its you Mangy_Dog
2020-12-26T19:03:30 < Steffanx> And its not eclipse being broken, you break your workspace/project settings
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2020-12-26T19:07:33 < mawk> Mangy_Dog: delete eclipse in appdata
2020-12-26T19:07:44 < mawk> win+r %APPDATA%
2020-12-26T19:07:48 < mawk> find eclipse related stuff
2020-12-26T19:07:49 < mawk> delete all
2020-12-26T19:08:35 < Steffanx> bullshit.
2020-12-26T19:08:42 < Steffanx> pebkac.
2020-12-26T19:08:55 < Steffanx> Cant delete that, ok you can but thats a bit too much
2020-12-26T19:11:08 < mawk> why too much?
2020-12-26T19:11:11 < mawk> that's just where local settings for eclipse are stored
2020-12-26T19:11:13 < mawk> all the non-workspace settings
2020-12-26T19:11:17 < mawk> if it's "corrupted" then you need to delete it
2020-12-26T19:12:32 < Steffanx> i meant cant delete the problem between the keyboard and chair, mawk :P
2020-12-26T19:12:34 < Steffanx> but you can.
2020-12-26T19:13:19 < Steffanx> unless mr Mangy_Dog deleted stuff from his sloeber/eclipse im not convinced its actually corrupt
2020-12-26T19:13:28 < Steffanx> And he's just doing the wrong thing.
2020-12-26T19:14:47 < mawk> lol
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2020-12-26T19:22:24 < Steffanx> Eclipse isnt perfect, but im just a tiny bit annoyed by blaming user mistakes on Eclipse. 
2020-12-26T19:22:41 < Steffanx> Or maaaybe this Sloeber plugin is REALLLLYY that bad
2020-12-26T19:27:17 < mawk> well the first thing it greeted me with when i started it was an ugly error message
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2020-12-26T19:27:29 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226150721257.png
2020-12-26T19:27:36 < mawk> this ksnip tool is really cool
2020-12-26T19:27:43 < mawk> what do you use for screenshots PaulFertser ?
2020-12-26T19:27:50 < Steffanx> And how you solved this?
2020-12-26T19:28:02 < mawk> I just clicked ok
2020-12-26T19:28:21 < Steffanx> Oh
2020-12-26T19:29:07 < PaulFertser> mawk: in the rare cases I need to make a screenshots I use import from imagemagick.
2020-12-26T19:29:49 < Steffanx> dont forget PaulFertser isnt really your common computer user mawk :P
2020-12-26T19:31:55 < mawk> lol
2020-12-26T19:42:44 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: slop might interest you, it's nice to pass coordinates to screenshot tools
2020-12-26T19:43:18 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: thank you, I am not sure I'll ever need that though.
2020-12-26T19:43:54 < Steffanx> You know the coordinates of something on your screen BrainDamage?
2020-12-26T19:44:33 < BrainDamage> no, which is why I use slop, I just draw a rectangle selection and it spits out the coordinates
2020-12-26T19:44:44 < BrainDamage> or select a window by click
2020-12-26T19:44:47 < Steffanx> oh nevermind, i read something else in it
2020-12-26T19:45:04 < BrainDamage> and it's easy to glue those to screenshot tools, so you capture only the needed area
2020-12-26T19:45:30 < BrainDamage> ( or crop the whole screenshot )
2020-12-26T19:45:59 < BrainDamage> it's much more intuitive than having to open a picture editor after and crop it manually
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2020-12-26T20:15:53 < jadew> man... I need to make myself a parts catalogue and BOM manager
2020-12-26T20:16:36 < Steffanx> Yes, lets reinvent wheels
2020-12-26T20:16:39 < jadew> keeping track of parts for several projects that share some parts between each other is kinda difficult
2020-12-26T20:16:51 < jadew> Steffanx, that's what I do best, better wheels
2020-12-26T20:17:10 < BrainDamage> this channel needs a quote grabbing bot
2020-12-26T20:17:27 < jadew> heh
2020-12-26T20:17:56 < jadew> Steffanx, you know one which is free, easy to use and doesn't phone home with your inventory?
2020-12-26T20:20:06 < jadew> currently I only have a database of all the components I ever bought
2020-12-26T20:20:11 < jadew> but I don't know how many I got left
2020-12-26T20:20:28 < jadew> and no proper interface to interact with the data
2020-12-26T20:21:14 < antto> jadew, have u seen muh eggcelent, unfinished, but kinda usable bom tool?
2020-12-26T20:21:34 < jadew> antto, please show
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2020-12-26T20:22:03 < antto> http://antonsavov.net/tmp/fake-pmkb.html
2020-12-26T20:22:23 < jadew> tbh, I started working on one too, hence the DB, but I keep avoiding putting real work into it
2020-12-26T20:22:57 < antto> but specifically, it merges BOMs.. projectA*10 + projectB*25 ...
2020-12-26T20:23:19 < jadew> ah, I see
2020-12-26T20:23:33 < jadew> what I really want to manage is my component stock
2020-12-26T20:23:48 < antto> that's outside the scope of mine
2020-12-26T20:24:08 < jadew> these shitty ICs cost $$$s even for 10 pcs, so I try to avoid overbuying
2020-12-26T20:24:13 < antto> mine just vomits this .html but also works standalone and merges BOMs
2020-12-26T20:24:21 < antto> it can also sorta generate a "diff BOM"
2020-12-26T20:25:16 < jadew> that's interesting functionality
2020-12-26T20:26:14 < antto> projectA*1 + projectB*-1
2020-12-26T20:26:24 < BrainDamage> jadew: generating a bom is just a normal functionality of every cad, what you really want is just an inventory manager
2020-12-26T20:26:33 < antto> yeah
2020-12-26T20:26:43 < BrainDamage> which can operate on boms
2020-12-26T20:26:49 < jadew> BrainDamage, exactly, yeah
2020-12-26T20:26:51 < antto> for that, one thing that circulates around is this inventree
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2020-12-26T20:27:04 < antto> haven't tried it
2020-12-26T20:27:33 < antto> at $job we went for cooking our own thing
2020-12-26T20:28:44 < BrainDamage> it might be easier to just take an existing inventory manager, and the convert your bom into a data format it can digest
2020-12-26T20:28:45 < jadew> antto, looks interesting
2020-12-26T20:28:48 < fenugrec> been wanting to try inventree. Trying partkeepr for thw past few months has been disappointing
2020-12-26T20:29:07 < BrainDamage> csv will be likely that format
2020-12-26T20:29:20 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with that
2020-12-26T20:29:34 < jadew> fenugrec, what stopped you from trying inventree?
2020-12-26T20:29:39 < antto> for $home, muh bom tool is gud enuf
2020-12-26T20:30:09 < jadew> fenugrec, btw, I tried partkeepr, seemed pretty bad
2020-12-26T20:30:16 < fenugrec> jadew, seemed a bit more involved to install than "download this docker container"
2020-12-26T20:31:03 < jadew> I see
2020-12-26T20:31:10 < antto> when i saw that the inventree thing is not simple to install, i kinda forgot about it
2020-12-26T20:32:22 < jadew> the install instructions don't seem too bad
2020-12-26T20:32:34 < antto> i'm not a h4x0r
2020-12-26T20:32:42 < jadew> I would like to see a demo tho
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2020-12-26T20:35:30 < BrainDamage> since it's python, installing it in a virtual env should be easy
2020-12-26T20:36:06 < antto> noooo sneks
2020-12-26T20:36:16 < antto> f*ck sneks
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2020-12-26T20:38:29 < Steffanx> There is stuff for docker mr fenugrec
2020-12-26T20:39:57 < jadew> can't find a demo
2020-12-26T20:41:34 < jadew> inventree seems to be almost exactly what I need
2020-12-26T20:42:21 < jadew> the only problem is that I would have to build plugins for it, and I don't know if I'm prepared to invest time to make custom crap for a project that isn't mine
2020-12-26T20:42:46 < jadew> and it's not that complex of a project anyway
2020-12-26T20:43:44 < jadew> screw it, I'll just finish my DB and do it all with scripts until I feel like making an interface
2020-12-26T20:43:48 < Steffanx> Good luck jadew
2020-12-26T20:44:07 < jadew> I already wrote the complex stuff
2020-12-26T20:44:23 < antto> call it inoventree
2020-12-26T20:44:29 < antto> ;P~
2020-12-26T20:44:30 < jadew> heh
2020-12-26T20:44:36 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haSAu926BOI
2020-12-26T20:44:55 < Steffanx> Writing user interface, validation and crap is just BORING.
2020-12-26T20:44:56 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, but that's more about a plugin
2020-12-26T20:44:58 < jadew> that adds parts
2020-12-26T20:45:29 < jadew> Steffanx, I've done that a lot, I already wrote libraries to make that part easy
2020-12-26T20:45:39 < BrainDamage> it shows some of the inventree ui
2020-12-26T20:45:48 < Steffanx> It's always boring jadew. Always.
2020-12-26T20:45:54 < jadew> Steffanx, I know
2020-12-26T20:45:55 < BrainDamage> just watch after the first half
2020-12-26T20:46:18 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, I saw it earlier
2020-12-26T20:46:38 < jadew> I like the checkboxes
2020-12-26T20:46:52 < jadew> (what they tell about the part)
2020-12-26T20:47:00 < BrainDamage> imma make a package for arch for inventree, then I'll try it myself
2020-12-26T20:47:25 < jadew> well, if you do, let me know, I'll install it too
2020-12-26T20:47:53 < BrainDamage> unless you use arch linux, it won't have much use for you
2020-12-26T20:48:13 < BrainDamage> part of the reason why I use arch is that I can package software really really easily
2020-12-26T20:48:34 < jadew> by that you mean an install script, right?
2020-12-26T20:48:35 < BrainDamage> most of the times i just copypaste the build instructions or use a template
2020-12-26T20:49:03 < jadew> I normally make a VM specifically for things like this
2020-12-26T20:49:04 < BrainDamage> that's what a package manager script is, it tells the package manager how to install it
2020-12-26T20:49:16 < jadew> I don't want them to pollute my actual machines
2020-12-26T20:49:44 < jadew> (so the OS doesn't matter)
2020-12-26T20:49:44 < BrainDamage> containers are the lightweight approach for that, but yeah
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2020-12-26T20:52:06 < jadew> oups, looks like I already wrote something lol
2020-12-26T20:52:41 < jadew> not finished, but it's further than I thought
2020-12-26T21:03:29 < fenugrec> I mostly share antto's dislike of snakes, and "virtual env should be easy" doesn't apply to me atm
2020-12-26T21:04:17 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, package for arch would nice. I'll keep an eye out
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2020-12-26T21:07:16 < fenugrec> partkeepr is in a bad place - main dev has left the building; whole thing is PHP  built on 2-generation-old frameworks, etc... not new-dev-friendly
2020-12-26T21:08:24 < jadew> can you even work with that interface tho?
2020-12-26T21:08:32 < jadew> I found it to be very awkward
2020-12-26T21:08:44 < fenugrec> I found it pain
2020-12-26T21:08:52 < Steffanx> luckily jadew will make his tool better, free and work on it FOREVER.
2020-12-26T21:08:53 < fenugrec> and regularly buggy
2020-12-26T21:09:59 < jadew> Steffanx, don't tempt me
2020-12-26T21:10:59 < jadew> there was a time when I thought this could be a good idea and I have a fairly well laid out plan for it
2020-12-26T21:11:23 < jadew> now I just want something to tell me how much stuff I have to buy
2020-12-26T21:11:29 < fenugrec> why not add your missing stuff to inventree again ?
2020-12-26T21:11:56 < jadew> fenugrec, what's in it for me?
2020-12-26T21:12:09 < fenugrec> not reinventing the wheel completely ?
2020-12-26T21:12:19 < jadew> if I'm going to dedicate so much time to a project, it's better if it's my project
2020-12-26T21:13:18 < jadew> I can work with other people's code just fine, but generally speaking, I don't want to
2020-12-26T21:13:33 < fenugrec> ah, Not Invented Here... understandable, but wasteful
2020-12-26T21:13:35 < jadew> I would rather write stuff from scratch when I know there's a lot of work to be done
2020-12-26T21:16:57 < jadew> working on other people's code is a good for you only if you're a much worse developer than the other people on the project
2020-12-26T21:17:06 < jadew> that way, you're bothering them and you're gaining in the process
2020-12-26T21:17:35 < jadew> if it's the other way around, you want to lead the project, otherwise you're going to pull your hair out
2020-12-26T21:17:37 -!- c10ud^ [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-26T21:17:45 < jadew> unless it's for money, then it doesn't matter
2020-12-26T21:18:24 < jadew> s/gaining/growing/
2020-12-26T21:18:30 < mawk> BrainDamage: I do shift+alt+r and there is a rectangle selection tool that pops right up, and after I select it saves the selection to a png in my screenshot directly
2020-12-26T21:18:45 < mawk> and if I hit shift+U just after that, it scp the file to my server and copies the link to my clipboard
2020-12-26T21:18:52 < mawk> ksnip does all that
2020-12-26T21:19:03 < mawk> then with one extra click I can highlight part of the screen, or add arrows, text
2020-12-26T21:19:38 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20201226201935406.png
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2020-12-26T21:21:23 < jadew> I gather from that screenshot that Steffanx is very important to mawk
2020-12-26T21:21:38 < jadew> while fenugrec has the same color as plain text...
2020-12-26T21:21:42 < mawk> lol
2020-12-26T21:21:52 < mawk> it's automatic colors
2020-12-26T21:21:54 < fenugrec> I'm hurt
2020-12-26T21:22:00 < jadew> mawk, I know :)
2020-12-26T21:25:09 < jadew> looking at my code, it seems I'm a couple of hours away from getting most of the functionality I need
2020-12-26T21:25:31 < jadew> maybe 2 days of work to add a couple of extras
2020-12-26T21:27:09 < aandrew> https://twitter.com/akohlsmith/status/1342911097502887937
2020-12-26T21:29:02 < jadew> aandrew, wasn't thanksgiving a couple of months back?
2020-12-26T21:29:15 < Steffanx> Where are the pics of the actual turkey aandrew?
2020-12-26T21:29:29 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's a giant mass, it follows a simple exp curve
2020-12-26T21:30:06 < BrainDamage> I made roast beef the other day, and I could tell the time it'd be done by getting the exp coefficient
2020-12-26T21:30:13 < aandrew> jadew: this was the christmas one
2020-12-26T21:30:20 < aandrew> Steffanx: I don't take pics of my food
2020-12-26T21:30:26 < jadew> poor turkeys
2020-12-26T21:30:55 < mawk> you say "temperature (°C)" aandrew 
2020-12-26T21:30:58 < mawk> but it's °F
2020-12-26T21:30:59 < mawk> you liar
2020-12-26T21:31:17 < aandrew> oh fuck did I 
2020-12-26T21:31:18 < aandrew> hahahaha
2020-12-26T21:31:32 < aandrew> that is F
2020-12-26T21:32:04 < aandrew> that turkey would be charcoal if I did it at 350C
2020-12-26T21:32:07 < BrainDamage> and the reason why the temp is capped is because the birb contains a lot of liquid
2020-12-26T21:32:18 < aandrew> BrainDamage: oh I know why, I just thought the curve was interesting
2020-12-26T21:32:34 < BrainDamage> until the liquid evaporates, the temp remains constant
2020-12-26T21:32:41 < aandrew> and yes, turkey is mostly water so unless you change the pressure it's not going to go above that
2020-12-26T21:33:22 < aandrew> it's the same thing when I leased that industrial space a while back - I had to run the furnace for about 6 hours until the moisture was finally driven out of the concrete before it actually started really being warm in there
2020-12-26T21:34:10 < BrainDamage> however you're a philistine for letting your turkey reach 93°C
2020-12-26T21:35:11 < aandrew> BrainDamage: why do you say that?
2020-12-26T21:35:17 < aandrew> this bird was fucking *amazing*
2020-12-26T21:36:08 < aandrew> meat falling off the bone, breast juicy, crispy skin... perfection
2020-12-26T21:36:30 < aandrew> mind you -- it was marinated for 3 days and cooked in a closed roasting pan, breast down but that's how I typically do them
2020-12-26T21:37:28 < BrainDamage> the marinade is probably what kept it tender, otherwise, proteins hydrolize at those temps and you get stiff meat
2020-12-26T21:37:55 < aandrew> yeah the science and chemistry behind cooking is fascinating
2020-12-26T21:38:04 < BrainDamage> but the marinade's acid probably denaturated them before, and prevented them to convert ... in the wrong way
2020-12-26T21:38:29 < aandrew> I find roasted meat that isn't properly prepared before hand is rubbery
2020-12-26T21:38:32 < Steffanx> Damn you aandrew.
2020-12-26T21:38:42 < Steffanx> Do you take photos after it was food?
2020-12-26T21:38:53 < Steffanx> (for you)
2020-12-26T21:39:05 < aandrew> I *love* medium-rare steak, but a pot roast or chicken/turkey/etc. I find has to be very well done or it just never feels right
2020-12-26T21:39:08 < aandrew> Steffanx: lol
2020-12-26T21:41:38 < BrainDamage> for my roast beef, I did a short marinade for 12h under vacuum, pan roast to get the crust and then cook the core in the oven for 2.5h until it reached 63°C, the outside reached 71, which is kind of the limit before it starts stiffening, but also marinaded it to prevent that, only needed a short time because it was the exterior
2020-12-26T21:41:58 < aandrew> BrainDamage: it'd be difficult to cook a bird so the internal temp doeesn't rise above that, you'd have to have the oven considerably lower and I think I'd end up with pink turkey meat
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2020-12-26T21:42:10 < BrainDamage> also, yes, undercook poultry tastes like crap
2020-12-26T21:42:47 < mawk> -undercook
2020-12-26T21:42:51 < aandrew> under vacuum? that would try to pull out any internal moisture from the meat, but would that actually draw in marinade too?
2020-12-26T21:43:23 < BrainDamage> white meat can tolerate higher temps, not to mention, birbs harbor different pathogens
2020-12-26T21:43:41 < BrainDamage> so you have to cook them to at least 70something
2020-12-26T21:44:15 < BrainDamage> the vacuum ensures the marinade adheres to all nooks and crannies well
2020-12-26T21:44:48 < BrainDamage> the movement is not diffusion, it's driven through osmosis, that's why the marinade has to be salty / acidic
2020-12-26T21:45:48 < BrainDamage> and with vacuum I can use very little amount if I only want an external marinade, the problem withh large pieces of meat is that to cover them with a marinade you need lot of liquid
2020-12-26T21:46:00 < BrainDamage> the same liquid tends to strip off the meat's juices
2020-12-26T21:46:20 < BrainDamage> that time, through diffusion
2020-12-26T21:46:44 < BrainDamage> using a vacuum bag you ensure that you have good adhesion without a lot of liquid
2020-12-26T21:47:10 < BrainDamage> and the meat won't leech away any moisture, there's 100% humidity outside it, aka wet
2020-12-26T21:47:40 < BrainDamage> it can exchange fluids, but it won't lose water
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2020-12-26T21:51:37 < BrainDamage> aand sorry for the monologue
2020-12-26T21:54:22 < mawk> BrainDamage food chemist
2020-12-26T21:54:59 < BrainDamage> I only do birds recreationally
2020-12-26T22:01:16 < Steffanx> lol :D :D
2020-12-26T22:01:16 < mawk> I hope you use condoms
2020-12-26T22:01:35 < Steffanx> He doesnt do bird that harm you.
2020-12-26T22:01:39 < Steffanx> birds
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2020-12-26T22:14:33 < Steffanx> Hows france mr mawk?
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2020-12-26T22:26:37 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/SEXLHC3B4c8?t=1153
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2020-12-26T22:28:58 < Steffanx> ty no clue what it is about
2020-12-26T22:29:00 < Steffanx> *closed*
2020-12-26T22:35:40 < karlp> what's wronng with just shift-printscreen to screengrab a region? (alt- for active window)
2020-12-26T22:36:31 < karlp> BrainDamage: the quote grabbing bot is me, but I don't always grab things if they don't interest me? is there something you wanted captured?
2020-12-26T22:38:04 < BrainDamage> the best quote grabs for bots are not as suitable as zypsnips, it's mostly ok things that out of context make for embarassing dialogs
2020-12-26T22:39:02 < BrainDamage> wheel
2020-12-26T22:39:16 < BrainDamage> bleh, that was meant to go into ctrl f
2020-12-26T22:40:57 < karlp> aandrew: are you sure the units on your temp graph are correct?
2020-12-26T22:41:40 < karlp> I mean, you _should_ be using proper units, but I'm just not convinced you had the bird at 200C internal for over two hours...
2020-12-26T22:41:59 < BrainDamage> <jadew>  Steffanx, that's what I do best, better wheels
2020-12-26T22:42:01 < karlp> nvm, mawk's on it :)
2020-12-26T22:42:07 < BrainDamage> that was the quote
2020-12-26T22:44:28 < karlp> oh, I tend to lump them into "philosophy.txt"
2020-12-26T22:44:55 < karlp> but jade promising that he's invented another, perfect, flawless, fully featured project that is neither availble, nor open source is... not news :)
2020-12-26T22:45:19 < Steffanx> it is not?! Whoaa :D
2020-12-26T22:46:11 < Laurenceb> All is not as it seems. Underneath the face lies toxic misogyny, GSMphobia, racism, and worse
2020-12-26T22:47:01 < Laurenceb> Heteronormative patriarchy
2020-12-26T22:47:36 < BrainDamage> fear of cellphones?
2020-12-26T22:47:59 < Laurenceb> presumably
2020-12-26T22:48:08 < BrainDamage> GSMphobia, fear of cellphones before the 5G trend was cool
2020-12-26T22:48:14 < Laurenceb> lmao
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2020-12-26T22:53:46 < mawk> karlp: because I'm not on windows
2020-12-26T22:53:51 < mawk> Laurenceb: SEX LHC
2020-12-26T22:53:54 < mawk> sex at the LHC??
2020-12-26T22:54:04 < mawk> it's very french ste
2020-12-26T22:54:06 < mawk> steste
2020-12-26T22:54:06 < Laurenceb> maybe
2020-12-26T22:54:08 < mawk> where is he
2020-12-26T22:54:17 < mawk> /summon Steffanx
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2020-12-26T22:56:35 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2020-12-26T22:56:37 < mawk> it's very cold
2020-12-26T22:56:41 < mawk> NL is better
2020-12-26T22:58:06 < karlp> doesn't windows have anything built in for printscreening these days? really?
2020-12-26T22:59:08 < effractur> it does
2020-12-26T22:59:10 < effractur> it is clalled
2020-12-26T22:59:13 < effractur> the printscreen button
2020-12-26T22:59:32 < effractur> or win + shift + s
2020-12-26T22:59:53 < mawk> yes windows has karlp 
2020-12-26T22:59:57 < effractur> or to save the screenshot to a file
2020-12-26T23:00:01 < effractur> win + prtnscreen
2020-12-26T23:00:09 < effractur> or the active window alt + ptrscreen
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2020-12-26T23:00:31 < Steffanx> snipping tool.
2020-12-26T23:00:40 < Steffanx> or Snip & Sketch.
2020-12-26T23:00:59 < effractur> its windows so there are al least 10 differnt ways of doing it in a clean install
2020-12-26T23:02:13 < BrainDamage> amazon is asking me to answer a help question about a product I didn't receive yet
2020-12-26T23:03:10 < BrainDamage> the more time passes, the more I am convinced that software development skills boil down to pray that you accounted for every possible condition/state beforehand
2020-12-26T23:03:35 < effractur> na there are tools to check if you got everything
2020-12-26T23:03:41 < effractur> but that is to expesive and hard
2020-12-26T23:03:55 < mawk> well if even amazon can't afford it 
2020-12-26T23:04:00 < effractur> you got stuff like mcrl2 
2020-12-26T23:04:01 < BrainDamage> you cannot explore the state space of a complex program
2020-12-26T23:04:22 < effractur> amazon only does it for the mission critical stuff
2020-12-26T23:04:25 < BrainDamage> a) it's immense b) it's literally infinite when you accept arbitrary length input
2020-12-26T23:04:26 < effractur> like there databses 
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2020-12-26T23:16:24 < Laurenceb> anyone know how to install man pages on lunix?
2020-12-26T23:16:44 < Laurenceb> I have 3 directories
2020-12-26T23:16:45 < Laurenceb> man1  man3  man5
2020-12-26T23:17:11 < Laurenceb> with some software I installed, but the man <command> isnt working
2020-12-26T23:17:44 < BrainDamage> it sould be a package like any ooter
2020-12-26T23:18:14 < Laurenceb> nope they dont provide a package
2020-12-26T23:19:25 < Laurenceb> looks like this perhaps
2020-12-26T23:19:26 < Laurenceb> https://askubuntu.com/questions/244809/how-do-i-manually-install-a-man-page-file
2020-12-26T23:24:33 < Laurenceb> it works
2020-12-26T23:24:42 < Laurenceb> now I just have to work out what a man5 and man3 file is
2020-12-26T23:25:03 < Laurenceb>  (c)1994
2020-12-26T23:25:04 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-12-26T23:25:42 < effractur> its just the dict afaik
2020-12-26T23:25:51 < effractur> see man man
2020-12-26T23:25:54 < karlp> just different sectins
2020-12-26T23:25:54 < effractur> wat each section is afaik
2020-12-26T23:26:25 < BrainDamage> yes, different sections
2020-12-26T23:26:26 < Laurenceb> does it belong in /usr/local/man   ?
2020-12-26T23:26:42 < effractur> that is common pratice yes
2020-12-26T23:26:45 < Laurenceb> k
2020-12-26T23:27:49 < effractur> an in th man page of man each section and it spupose is descripbed
2020-12-26T23:40:09 < Laurenceb> heh muh hysplit script is working
2020-12-26T23:40:16 < Laurenceb> 10 months of data so far
2020-12-26T23:41:55 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/Eu87b4r2
2020-12-26T23:46:48 < BrainDamage> I take db download is paid for?
2020-12-26T23:47:25 < englishman> BrainDamage: have you ever tried injecting a bird
2020-12-26T23:48:06 < englishman> we take a cooking syringe with like 2-2.5mm hole and inject butter, whiskey, garlic, honey, spices etc
2020-12-26T23:48:37 < BrainDamage> that might be a little too extreme for me yet
2020-12-26T23:48:48 < Steffanx> "NOTE: this web server is not considered an "operational" system and it should not be relied upon for 24/7 access." ... yeah Laurenceb is DDoSing it.
2020-12-26T23:48:51 < BrainDamage> sounds pretty intense tho
2020-12-26T23:49:28 < Laurenceb> me... pay for something
2020-12-26T23:49:34 < englishman> makes a juicy chicken
2020-12-26T23:49:47 < Laurenceb> yeah this is a way to download the database without downloading the database
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2020-12-26T23:53:46 < Laurenceb> handrubbingintensifies.m
2020-12-26T23:54:55 < BrainDamage> how large is that crap?
--- Day changed Sun Dec 27 2020
2020-12-27T00:04:37 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/pic/https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEpYAef3XUAMBNk5.jpg%3Aorig
2020-12-27T00:05:34 < Steffanx> Lol
2020-12-27T00:05:43 < Steffanx> Not related. My arse
2020-12-27T00:10:42 < englishman> lol
2020-12-27T00:12:11 < BrainDamage> the nanoparticles that resonate with 5G in the vaccine attracted the lightning
2020-12-27T00:12:39 < englishman> I really should get going on that anti-5g nutritional supplement
2020-12-27T00:15:36 < Steffanx> Just get your feet up in the air when we're all zoombies, englishman
2020-12-27T00:15:53 < Steffanx> and shoot us down with your shotgun
2020-12-27T00:38:28 < Laurenceb> hmm
2020-12-27T00:38:40 < Laurenceb> I wonder if NOAA could use influxdb for their data
2020-12-27T00:38:56 < Laurenceb> from babbyshake experience it would probably die horribly lol
2020-12-27T00:39:19 < Laurenceb> atm they use a ton of binary files and a bunch of perl scripts
2020-12-27T00:43:38 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: whole database is prob ~1PB
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2020-12-27T01:31:38 < karlp> is lolrence programming in matlab?
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2020-12-27T01:54:33 < mawk> yes 
2020-12-27T02:00:04 < fenugrec> TIL there is such a thing as an axial glass NTC thermistor that definitely looks like a diode but ain't
2020-12-27T02:09:11 < Ultrasauce> some of my printers have those crammed in the hot end
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2020-12-27T02:09:46 < Ultrasauce> feels kinda hacky and fragile but gets the job done i guess
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2020-12-27T02:46:34 < mawk> there's something I don't get about newlib, for retargeting locks
2020-12-27T02:46:55 < mawk> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=blob;f=newlib/libc/misc/lock.c;hb=HEAD
2020-12-27T02:47:07 < mawk> I'm suppose to redefine all these functions in my application, alright
2020-12-27T02:47:37 < mawk> what is all this __lock___sinit_recursive_mutex crap?
2020-12-27T02:47:42 < mawk> should I care about it?
2020-12-27T02:48:31 < mawk> issue is that __retarget_lock_init takes a __lock ** as argument, so a pointer to pointer, and what I do is *lock = *lock = (_LOCK_T)xSemaphoreCreateMutex(); and that's it
2020-12-27T02:48:39 < mawk> so the old value of &__lock___sinit_recursive_mutex_crap is lost
2020-12-27T02:50:25 < mawk> _LOCK_T is a __lock *
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2020-12-27T03:22:19 < mawk> this is really stupid
2020-12-27T03:22:44 < mawk> I had to use malloc for this crap
2020-12-27T03:22:49 < mawk> and increase heap size
2020-12-27T03:39:59 < mawk> why would the nrf sdk need a heap
2020-12-27T03:40:01 < mawk> #define __STARTUP_CONFIG_HEAP_SIZE   0
2020-12-27T03:40:04 < mawk> it's not whining so far
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2020-12-27T09:57:15 < ColdKeyboard> Any recommendation for a C library to implement simple communication between PC and STM32 (USART)?
2020-12-27T09:57:38 < ColdKeyboard> Ie. send command and array of data or key-value pairs etc.
2020-12-27T09:58:11 < ColdKeyboard> Without having to spin up my own library to parse the RX buffer, searching for characters, doing atoi etc...
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2020-12-27T10:18:28 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: protobuf?
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2020-12-27T10:22:42 < ColdKeyboard> PaulFertser I'll take a look at it
2020-12-27T10:22:58 < ColdKeyboard> My protocol basicaly needs to be able to send a single command + variable data lenght
2020-12-27T10:23:48 < ColdKeyboard> I have N devices on the I2C bus and I want the PC to be able to send a message to STM32 over USART and then STM32 will parse it and send values that PC sent
2020-12-27T10:24:19 < ColdKeyboard> So imagine something along the line of `>S[0:30|1:40|9:10]`
2020-12-27T10:24:52 < ColdKeyboard> This would for example be a command to set DACs of I2C slaves #0, 1 and 9 to 30%, 40% and 10% respectively
2020-12-27T10:25:21 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: well, if you really do not need most of the features protobuf offers than it's probably not worth the effort. That said, https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb was easy enough for the MCU side.
2020-12-27T10:28:30 < ColdKeyboard> That looks nice
2020-12-27T10:28:53 < ColdKeyboard> I'll take a look at it
2020-12-27T10:29:07 < ColdKeyboard> So far it looks like the easiest way would just be to write my own damn thing... 
2020-12-27T10:29:27 < ColdKeyboard> I hate that I'm this way. Instead of using off-the-shelf stuff I always default to writing/building my own stuff :\
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2020-12-27T11:29:45 < karlp> make a new years resolutoin...
2020-12-27T11:31:00 < karlp> andhonstly, I'dreconsider any protocol that involved broadcasting a single packet with multiple effectively unicast packets insidde it
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2020-12-27T13:02:02 < dongs> nanopb still requires python right?
2020-12-27T13:02:05 < dongs> no-go right there.
2020-12-27T13:03:10 < dongs> > 
2020-12-27T13:03:12 < dongs> > There exist build rules for several systems:
2020-12-27T13:03:14 < dongs> WHY?!?!!?!?!?!?
2020-12-27T13:03:25 < dongs> WHY IS THERE SEVEN DIFFERENT WAYS TO BUILD THIS FUCKING TRASH
2020-12-27T13:03:28 < dongs> S E V E N
2020-12-27T13:03:45 < dongs> and not one for windows, lol
2020-12-27T13:03:47 < dongs> get fukt
2020-12-27T13:05:17 < antto> seven is one of the magical numbers afaik
2020-12-27T13:05:35 < antto> wut'cha brewing, dongs 
2020-12-27T13:16:56 < dongs> nothing, not using nanopb thats for sure
2020-12-27T13:17:54 < dongs> if they would rewrite protoc "compiler" in C i would consider using
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2020-12-27T14:13:12 < qyx> don't you have poython on your windows?
2020-12-27T14:14:50 < CatCow97> cue snakes on a plane quote
2020-12-27T14:36:54 < jadew> why would you use something like that anyway? you can write one in 50 lines of code in C++, in a header file
2020-12-27T14:36:58 < jadew> no compilation necessary
2020-12-27T14:37:27 < jadew> ah, I guess if you use scripting languages, that changes things a bit
2020-12-27T14:37:51 < jadew> but who does that for any serious work anyway?
2020-12-27T14:40:04 < jadew> I guess I lied, my datapack library is 320 lines
2020-12-27T14:42:01 < jadew> handles all basic data types, strings, and endianess
2020-12-27T14:48:41 < Steffanx> But now you want to use Java, C#, python and Go.
2020-12-27T14:48:52 < Steffanx> And you have to do it all over
2020-12-27T14:49:08 < Steffanx> But better wheels are better
2020-12-27T14:55:03 < jpa-> dongs: well, i do provide windows .exe for you
2020-12-27T14:56:03 < antto> wut is nanopb even
2020-12-27T14:56:31 < jpa-> but yeah, i don't like the bazillion build systems either, but that's just the way world is; people contribute build rules for their favourite platforms and i'm not strong enough to say "no"
2020-12-27T14:56:53 < jpa-> antto: piece of crap i wrote a decade ago and some crazy people are using and i'm stuck maintaining
2020-12-27T14:56:56 < antto> first websearch results lead to mr jpa- 
2020-12-27T14:57:32 < antto> oh, pb == google's protocol buffer crap.. f*ck that sh*t
2020-12-27T14:58:09 < jpa-> antto: what do you use instead?
2020-12-27T14:58:13 < PaulFertser> antto: what serialisation library do you prefer?
2020-12-27T14:58:25 < antto> i don't even know
2020-12-27T14:58:34 < antto> wut does a serialization library do?
2020-12-27T14:58:47 < PaulFertser> How can you judge what's crap and shit then?
2020-12-27T14:58:55 < antto> by the keyword "google"
2020-12-27T14:58:58 < antto> >:)
2020-12-27T14:58:59 < jpa-> with the full confidence provided by full ignorance
2020-12-27T14:59:08 < antto> it's THAT easy
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2020-12-27T15:00:20 < jpa-> dongs: i guess you are mixing up the build systems for the embedded code and for the generator - in my opinion, there is not much point building the generator yourself, just use the .exe / linux / mac binary; and as for building the embedded code, i also think build systems are overkill when there are only 3 .c files
2020-12-27T15:00:49 < antto> is serialization about turning data into a binary format (and also in the reverse direction) that can be used for sending it over sumfin or stored in files and sh*t?
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2020-12-27T15:02:06 < antto> okay, that's what it looks like from wikip0dia
2020-12-27T15:02:15 < antto> i don't use a library for that bruh
2020-12-27T15:04:31 < Steffanx> Your own wheels are alwayd the best wheels, antto 
2020-12-27T15:05:04 < antto> btw, if you lived here, you'd have a Name Day today
2020-12-27T15:05:14 < antto> 27 decemb0r
2020-12-27T15:06:20 < Steffanx> Name day..
2020-12-27T15:07:08 < Steffanx> Steffan isnt in the list
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2020-12-27T15:10:00 < antto> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_27_(Eastern_Orthodox_liturgics)
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2020-12-27T16:08:17 < mawk> nobody gave a go at my freertos lock problem?
2020-12-27T16:08:21 < mawk> that's what I thought
2020-12-27T16:08:24 < mawk> you're all cowards
2020-12-27T16:08:35  * mawk is using highly advanced psychological tactics
2020-12-27T16:09:08 < mawk> oogle protobuf is fine
2020-12-27T16:09:17 < mawk> g
2020-12-27T16:10:01 < Steffanx> only thing i wondered, why no nano. 
2020-12-27T16:14:04 < mawk> newlib does something horrible, using lock routine on uninitialized locks
2020-12-27T16:14:12 < mawk> so I initialize them statically in a constructor function, fine
2020-12-27T16:14:20 < mawk> but then it's using lock routines on regularly initialized locks as well
2020-12-27T16:14:35 < mawk> so I have to find a way to differentiate between lock routines running on the static locks, and on the dynamic locks
2020-12-27T16:14:48 < mawk> so I do it by keeping an array of static lock addresses and checking everytime if a lock is static or not
2020-12-27T16:14:59 < mawk> I could patch newlib though but it's not really my job
2020-12-27T16:18:31 < Steffanx> Do you really need al this locking magic? I dont seem the locks you linked mentioned here http://www.nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html
2020-12-27T16:18:54 < mawk> that guy doesn't have a clue
2020-12-27T16:19:09 < mawk> he's doing things upside down
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2020-12-27T16:19:32 < mawk> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=blob;f=newlib/libc/misc/lock.c;hb=HEAD
2020-12-27T16:19:34 < mawk> see this
2020-12-27T16:28:51 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/Dm7wGOW9.c
2020-12-27T16:28:53 < mawk> here you go
2020-12-27T16:28:58 < mawk> my implementation of locking with freertos
2020-12-27T16:29:07 < mawk> it needs ~2k of available heap space
2020-12-27T16:29:41 < mawk> but you can change the heap allocation to have a static table of pointers that you never free and it won't take more than say 128 bytes
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2020-12-27T16:40:16 < jadew> Steffanx, hasn't happened yet, and I wrote that library more than 10 years ago
2020-12-27T16:40:54 < jadew> when it does, I'll reorient myself, until then, there's no reason to support the cost of using stupid libraries
2020-12-27T16:42:05 < jadew> in the meantime, my shit always works, needs no installation and I don't have to deal with incompatibilities introduced while nothing changed in my projects, every once in a while 
2020-12-27T16:42:57 < jadew> reinventing the wheel is vastly underrated - even tho, in this case I don't think there was a wheel when I wrote this
2020-12-27T16:45:45 < mawk> will you use my code Steffanx ?
2020-12-27T16:46:14 < mawk> it doesn't work from ISR though, but why would you ever acquire a lock in an isr?
2020-12-27T16:50:21 < Steffanx> No i wont mawk. 
2020-12-27T16:50:57 < mawk> :(
2020-12-27T16:51:04 < mawk> you prefer non-threadsafe code???
2020-12-27T16:51:09 < Steffanx> Im more interested in why i see hardly, (more like no one) use this. Not even that page mentions it.
2020-12-27T16:51:16 < Steffanx> the nadler.com page
2020-12-27T16:51:30 < mawk> because that page is outdated
2020-12-27T16:51:38 < mawk> lock retargeting has been added in 2016 to newlib
2020-12-27T16:51:39 < Steffanx> So either you dont strictly need it(other locking mechanisms or ... )
2020-12-27T16:51:44 < mawk> the official docs haven't been updated yet
2020-12-27T16:52:02 < mawk> and the nadler guy is too lazy to read source code
2020-12-27T16:52:28 < mawk> I read what the source code says, "in multithreaded application it must be provided ..."
2020-12-27T16:52:52 < Steffanx> " If some routines or static locks are missing, the link will fail with doubly defined symbols."
2020-12-27T16:52:54 < mawk> maybe if you get lucky nothing happens for a while, but you will end up with data race at some point if you use the default dummy locking provided with newlib
2020-12-27T16:52:55 < Steffanx> then why doesnt that happen?
2020-12-27T16:53:04 < mawk> "if some are missing"
2020-12-27T16:53:08 < mawk> that means, if you define some but not all
2020-12-27T16:53:17 < mawk> if you define none of them it's fine, the dummy routines will be used
2020-12-27T16:53:29 < mawk> it's a linker trick
2020-12-27T16:53:45 < Steffanx> ok maybe that.
2020-12-27T16:53:48 < mawk> the whole .o while be brought it when at least one symbol is needed, so if you define some symbols but not all you will have double definition on the symbols you defined
2020-12-27T16:53:57 < mawk> but if you define them all, the .o will not be brought in
2020-12-27T16:54:09 < mawk> and if you define none of them, the .o will be brought in and the dummy symbols will be used
2020-12-27T16:54:30 < Steffanx> Im not convinced the guy is lazy.
2020-12-27T16:54:39 < mawk> yes he is
2020-12-27T16:54:45 < mawk> he made freertos use libc's malloc
2020-12-27T16:54:46 < Steffanx> especially since the guy knows about it
2020-12-27T16:54:49 < mawk> instead of the other way around
2020-12-27T16:54:59 < mawk> he doesn't know about the locks
2020-12-27T16:55:05 < Steffanx> He does
2020-12-27T16:55:06 < mawk> for that he had to find them in source code
2020-12-27T16:55:13 < mawk> because they're not mentionned in docs
2020-12-27T16:55:42 < Steffanx> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00000Ceu7TSAR/freertos-users-daves-helpers-now-on-github-fix-for-newlib-memory-management-bugs-in-st-tools
2020-12-27T16:55:44 < Steffanx> He does.
2020-12-27T16:56:31 < mawk> I don't see anything lock related here
2020-12-27T16:56:59 < Steffanx> ok
2020-12-27T16:57:07 < mawk> it's his modified heap file for using libc's malloc within freertos
2020-12-27T16:57:17 < mawk> and a modified freertos port file for some stack checking magic from isr
2020-12-27T16:57:40 < Steffanx> You didnt look far enough. someone replied to it, he replied to that > he knows about it
2020-12-27T16:58:31 < mawk> https://github.com/DRNadler/FreeRTOS_helpers/blob/master/heap_useNewlib_ST.c#L220
2020-12-27T16:58:34 < mawk> here's how he locks thing
2020-12-27T16:58:40 < mawk> vTaskSuspendAll();
2020-12-27T16:59:41 < Steffanx> Yeah wonderful :P
2020-12-27T17:00:01 < mawk> magnificent yes
2020-12-27T17:22:46 < mawk> I hate this naming convention of freertos
2020-12-27T17:22:54 < mawk> the guy hould be beheaded
2020-12-27T17:23:53 < Mangy_Dog> im still dont get why some functions start with an x
2020-12-27T17:23:54 < Mangy_Dog> or a v
2020-12-27T17:24:04 < Steffanx> Read the docs
2020-12-27T17:24:04 < mawk> v is void
2020-12-27T17:24:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-27T17:24:10 < mawk> for instance
2020-12-27T17:24:24 < mawk> pv is pointer to void
2020-12-27T17:24:26 < mawk> and so on
2020-12-27T17:24:27 < Mangy_Dog> xTaskCreat 
2020-12-27T17:24:27 < Steffanx> https://www.freertos.org/FreeRTOS-Coding-Standard-and-Style-Guide.html
2020-12-27T17:24:32 < Mangy_Dog> e
2020-12-27T17:25:00 < Mangy_Dog> sooo
2020-12-27T17:25:06 < Mangy_Dog> v functions are task handlign functions
2020-12-27T17:25:17 < Mangy_Dog> and x functions are task create destroy functions?
2020-12-27T17:25:21 < Steffanx> No its what Mangy_Dog said.
2020-12-27T17:25:43 < Steffanx> Its the return type.
2020-12-27T17:25:56 < mawk> what mawk said********************
2020-12-27T17:26:16 < Mangy_Dog> i thought he means mawk
2020-12-27T17:26:17 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-12-27T17:26:27 < Steffanx> "Variables of non stdint types are prefixed x. Examples include BaseType_t and TickType_t, "
2020-12-27T17:27:14 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-27T17:27:15 < Steffanx> Guess what xTaskCreate returns
2020-12-27T17:27:23 < Steffanx> BaseType_t 
2020-12-27T17:27:40 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-27T17:27:42 < Steffanx> or xTaskCreateStatic returns TaskHandle_t 
2020-12-27T17:28:10 < jpa-> vRetrieveFreeRTOSNamingLogic()
2020-12-27T17:28:42 < Mangy_Dog> error : thread error data parse fail at entry point
2020-12-27T17:29:03 < Steffanx> Oh, jpa- even knows they wouldnt write "FreeRtos" im proud of you
2020-12-27T17:29:11 < Mangy_Dog> it really amazes me when people say how smart i am.... honestly i feel like im dumb as shit tbh 
2020-12-27T17:29:28 < Steffanx> Getting things done != smart :P
2020-12-27T17:29:50 < Mangy_Dog> mildly inteligent? :p
2020-12-27T17:30:48 < Steffanx> so tell me mawk, how does all this locking relate to the freertos reentrent config
2020-12-27T17:31:00 < Steffanx> aaand the already existing malloc and env locks?
2020-12-27T17:31:15 < Steffanx> So do you really need __lock___tz_mutex when you have those other 2 things in place. Better look into the sores for me.
2020-12-27T17:31:15 < PaulFertser> My impression is that you're an amazing artist Mangy_Dog , but the way you approach programming leads to much timewaste.
2020-12-27T17:31:32 < Mangy_Dog> i can accept that
2020-12-27T17:31:38 < Mangy_Dog> im self taught
2020-12-27T17:31:42 < Mangy_Dog> and thats been my downfall tbh
2020-12-27T17:31:57 < Mangy_Dog> so while i can come up with interesting ways of doing complex things
2020-12-27T17:32:01 < Steffanx> Many here are kinda that i think. With some education after that
2020-12-27T17:32:02 < Mangy_Dog> theyre not always the best ways
2020-12-27T17:32:10 < Mangy_Dog> and ive missed otu on a lot of fundimental things
2020-12-27T17:32:35 < BrainDamage> self taught is not necessarily a prolem, but you need to change your approach
2020-12-27T17:33:03 < BrainDamage> most people when they approach a new topic, they try a top-down approach
2020-12-27T17:33:15 < Mangy_Dog> meaning?
2020-12-27T17:33:31 < Mangy_Dog> believe it or not... i do actually read datasheets and guides :p
2020-12-27T17:33:38 < Mangy_Dog> just not 100% of everything all the time
2020-12-27T17:33:48 < Mangy_Dog> as then i might as well spend a year reading it all
2020-12-27T17:34:00 < Mangy_Dog> but try and focus on the areas that are important to me at the time
2020-12-27T17:34:49 < Steffanx> but can you debug now Mangy_Dog?
2020-12-27T17:34:58 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2020-12-27T17:35:01 < Mangy_Dog> thankfully
2020-12-27T17:35:03 < Mangy_Dog> and thanks to mawk
2020-12-27T17:35:08 < Mangy_Dog> holding my hand setting it up
2020-12-27T17:35:22 < Mangy_Dog> still got to get to know some of these debug tools more
2020-12-27T17:35:28 < Mangy_Dog> but at least i can setup break points :p
2020-12-27T17:35:35 < Mangy_Dog> need to get printf working too
2020-12-27T17:35:38 < BrainDamage> ie, they look for the biggest relevant things, see that they lack some more basic requirement, learn itt, and recursively go down to the basics
2020-12-27T17:35:39 < Steffanx> And dont forget to stop blaming your tools
2020-12-27T17:35:44 < BrainDamage> scientific topics instead are nearly always taught bottom-up
2020-12-27T17:35:47 < Mangy_Dog> and i couldnt get freeRTOS thread listing working yet
2020-12-27T17:35:51 < BrainDamage> you learn the basics, and get them solid, it requires trudging through a lot of boring work, and not all the material is strictly necessary
2020-12-27T17:36:00 < BrainDamage> but after you get them, handling the abstractions above become way easier
2020-12-27T17:36:18 < Mangy_Dog> ohhhhhhh ill regularly blame sloeber/eclipse
2020-12-27T17:36:29 < Mangy_Dog> because it breaks all the frigging time
2020-12-27T17:36:49 < Mangy_Dog> liturally spent hours yesterday rebuilding it all :/
2020-12-27T17:37:36 < BrainDamage> instead with a top-down approach, as you pile up more material, the harder it gets because it increases the amount of efforts to dig down
2020-12-27T17:37:49 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i would genuingly love to move away from the arduino core envioment and get practiced at making projects the.... normal.... way
2020-12-27T17:38:09 < jpa-> there is no normal way
2020-12-27T17:38:21 < Mangy_Dog> i think thats partly my issue with movign away from arduino :p
2020-12-27T17:38:25 < Mangy_Dog> there is no normal way
2020-12-27T17:38:26 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2020-12-27T17:38:26 < Steffanx> No, you break it all the time Mangy_Dog  ;)
2020-12-27T17:38:31 < Steffanx> Thats something else 
2020-12-27T17:39:27 < Mangy_Dog> its stupidly easy to brake though D:
2020-12-27T17:39:40 < mawk> then do it
2020-12-27T17:39:43 < BrainDamage> yes, that's exactly a top-down approach, you read datasheet and guides, those are useful only if you have the basics solid
2020-12-27T17:39:44 < mawk> Steffanx already existing locks are dummy locks, they're empty functions
2020-12-27T17:39:48 < mawk> problem doesn't manifest with what our nadler guy did because he locks the whole system at each malloc; but other locking libc routines would crash
2020-12-27T17:40:07 < BrainDamage> a value in a datasheet is useless if you don't know what it means, same applies for the guides, reading a guide teaches you to do 2+2, it doesn't teach you how to do sums
2020-12-27T17:40:12 < mawk> what I did is properly fill these locks so they do something
2020-12-27T17:40:17 < BrainDamage> bleh, I'm lagging like hell
2020-12-27T17:40:23 < Steffanx> No, I meant the malloc and env locks. And where those are used mawk
2020-12-27T17:40:35 < mawk> they are used in malloc and env
2020-12-27T17:40:38 < mawk> as the name imply
2020-12-27T17:41:06 < mawk> if you look at nadler's code he overrides malloc_lock with stopping the scheduler, instead of using a granular lock
2020-12-27T17:41:17 < mawk> so he fixed it at a higher level in a dumber way
2020-12-27T17:41:24 < Steffanx> Sure, but tz looks a bit envy to me, soo does it need the other locks or is it.. optional. 
2020-12-27T17:41:30 < mawk> meanwhile properly providing locks means you don't even have to mess with malloc
2020-12-27T17:41:43 < Steffanx> And based on the multi threaded flag stuff
2020-12-27T17:41:46 < mawk> dunno, but if I don't fill them all it crashes
2020-12-27T17:41:53 < mawk> it needs all symbols
2020-12-27T17:45:10 < Steffanx> Do you really have to malloc this lock structure or ... use it like that instead? https://gist.github.com/thomask77/65591d78070ace68885d3fd05cdebe3a
2020-12-27T17:45:10 < mawk> nadler tackled the problem at the wrong spot
2020-12-27T17:45:23 < mawk> I malloc only the dynamic locks
2020-12-27T17:45:30 < mawk> the ones in stdio
2020-12-27T17:45:56 < mawk> yeah no that's not good enough
2020-12-27T17:46:10 < mawk> there are two types of locks, the static ones that don't need malloc
2020-12-27T17:46:20 < mawk> then some other ones that are allocated at runtime eg in printf code
2020-12-27T17:46:38 < mawk> these ones need some storage, but I can allocate static storage for them instead of malloc maybe
2020-12-27T17:46:43 < mawk> if I know how many there are
2020-12-27T17:46:52 < mawk> it seems they're never deallocated so it's easy
2020-12-27T17:47:29 < mawk> I did some stats and 6 dynamic locks are allocated, after a few printfs, but that's not full coverage of libc
2020-12-27T17:48:20 < Steffanx> They do use dynamic. They just dont allocate memory for the structure like you do
2020-12-27T17:48:25 < Steffanx> *ptr
2020-12-27T17:49:33 < mawk> they store the lock inside a pointer yes
2020-12-27T17:49:44 < mawk> it's incredibly ugly
2020-12-27T17:49:52 < jpa-> why?
2020-12-27T17:49:59 < jpa-> IMO the wrapping struct is uglier
2020-12-27T17:50:21 < mawk> they store a lock inside a pointer to a lock
2020-12-27T17:50:28 < mawk> the pointer itself is used as storage
2020-12-27T17:50:57 < jpa-> to me it appears like they store the pointer to a lock.. in a pointer to a lock?
2020-12-27T17:51:11 < mawk> _LOCK_T is already a pointer type
2020-12-27T17:51:31 < mawk> typedef struct __lock *_LOCK_T;
2020-12-27T17:52:12 < jpa-> isn't _LOCK_T defined in the retargeting headers anyway?
2020-12-27T17:52:28 < mawk> yeah but then it's used in compiled newlib. ode
2020-12-27T17:52:42 < jpa-> anyway, a pointer is a pointer, who cares
2020-12-27T17:52:54 < jpa-> it's not like C has sophisticated type checking
2020-12-27T17:53:22 < mawk> lol I'm going to hell if I do that
2020-12-27T17:53:27 < jpa-> even storing pointer inside uint32_t is not particularly ugly when the code will ever run on a single platform anyway
2020-12-27T17:54:09 < jpa-> but if you are allocating a struct anyway, why don't you just put a static lock inside the struct? saves one malloc header worth of overhead
2020-12-27T17:54:29 < mawk> yeah good idea
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2020-12-27T17:59:25 < Steffanx> Talking about ugly mawk #pragma GCC diagnostic ignored "-Wprio-ctor-dtor" :P
2020-12-27T17:59:44 < mawk> lol
2020-12-27T17:59:52 < mawk> that's to run before libc
2020-12-27T17:59:59 < mawk> it's an accepted exception
2020-12-27T18:00:06 < Steffanx> by mr mawk
2020-12-27T18:00:06 < mawk> I'm the implementation in this case
2020-12-27T18:00:12 < mawk> by everyone
2020-12-27T18:00:14 < mawk> including you
2020-12-27T18:00:54 < Steffanx> im glad you think for me
2020-12-27T18:11:14 < Steffanx> So WHY ISNT THIS DOCUMENTED ANYWHERE MR mawk?
2020-12-27T18:14:30 < fenugrec> from that nadler page... " STM's USB stack calls malloc from within an ISR (see for example function USBD_CDC_Init ", is this still true !?
2020-12-27T18:14:43 < fenugrec> that's evil
2020-12-27T18:15:04 < Steffanx> 4 MONTHS ago it still was
2020-12-27T18:15:17 < Steffanx> according to his post
2020-12-27T18:15:21 < Steffanx> on the st forum
2020-12-27T18:15:27 < fenugrec> that's... insane
2020-12-27T18:15:50 < dongs> why does ST's shit need malloc at all
2020-12-27T18:15:52 < dongs> the fuck for
2020-12-27T18:16:27 < fenugrec> I bet they allocate a buffer to construct the descriptor
2020-12-27T18:17:05 < fenugrec> because reasons
2020-12-27T18:17:09 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/blob/master/Middlewares/ST/STM32_USB_Device_Library/Class/CDC/Src/usbd_cdc.c#L461
2020-12-27T18:17:51 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/blob/master/Middlewares/ST/STM32_USB_Device_Library/Class/CDC/Src/usbd_cdc.c#L534 they went full copypaste
2020-12-27T18:18:14 < Steffanx> Apparently STM already had a idea to get it fixed, but never went through with the actual implementation
2020-12-27T18:19:00 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/commit/b95577991ef8891c62c41e0845903e182cdf60d3 at least it looks like tehy're trying to improve but like...
2020-12-27T18:19:09 < fenugrec> heh wonder if it's a dick move from the guys on strike
2020-12-27T18:19:13 < dongs> wait, only 9 commits
2020-12-27T18:19:22 < dongs> over the period of 2 years!?
2020-12-27T18:22:37 < dongs> https://github.com/orgs/STMicroelectronics/projects/2 huh
2020-12-27T18:24:04 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/pull/43/files nice to see they're getting up with the times
2020-12-27T18:24:46 < dongs> > Thank you for your proposals. They have been forwarded to our quality team. The subject is still being discussed. I will let you informed.
2020-12-27T18:24:49 < dongs> ah yeah.
2020-12-27T18:24:51 < dongs> so thats how its done
2020-12-27T18:25:13 < Steffanx> Yeah those extra invisible spaces are deadly. DEADLY
2020-12-27T18:25:21 < dongs> absolutely
2020-12-27T18:25:28 < dongs> i even installed this awesome extension on vstudio
2020-12-27T18:25:32 < dongs> that shows trailing whitespace in HOT RED
2020-12-27T18:25:35 < dongs> and automatically deletes it
2020-12-27T18:25:38 < dongs> i ahve whitespace on in keil as well
2020-12-27T18:25:44 < dongs> tho it doesn't automaticalyl clean it
2020-12-27T18:26:20 < Steffanx> sure its not great, but ... obsessing over it. No thanks
2020-12-27T18:26:31 < Steffanx> > autism? :P
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2020-12-27T18:52:55 < dongs> Thank you for your contribution. As @fpistm said the issue has been tracked and fixed internally. The fix will be made available in the frame of a future release. Unfortunately, we cannot share a date for the moment. Stay tuned and thank you once more for your contribution and for your patience.
2020-12-27T18:53:07 < dongs> looks like all the people posting on stm32 shithub are french fucks
2020-12-27T18:53:09 < dongs> with weird english
2020-12-27T18:54:09 < dongs> huh so i dont understand.. all thier cube packages have very few commits, but lots of open/closed issues that are "tracked internally"
2020-12-27T18:54:15 < dongs> so where do they update the sores if not thorugh a commit?
2020-12-27T18:54:59 < jpa-> on a shared network drive
2020-12-27T18:55:11 < jpa-> they edit it with word and track issues with the "track changes" feature
2020-12-27T18:55:27 < jpa-> then some poor intern is tasked with export to .txt and rename to .c before they push to github
2020-12-27T18:55:28 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF1/commit/6ead386a08dea17f4dffbdbcd36c9979cb53588b
2020-12-27T18:55:31 < dongs> oh i see
2020-12-27T18:55:34 < dongs> they just do a massive commit of all the shit together
2020-12-27T18:55:43 < dongs> and tag it as a release
2020-12-27T18:56:20 < karlp> hah, people are selling the main cpu board for this old tv for lik e$90
2020-12-27T18:56:34 < karlp> must be prettydesparate to try replacing that
2020-12-27T18:57:20 < dongs> i was surprised, some local dude here asked me about his TV and wanted me to fix, i was like who the fuck fixes TVs? anyway i looked on ebay for some LCD controller board that smoked on his shit and was surprised to find tons of people selling them
2020-12-27T18:57:28 < jpa-> or pretty desperate to seel those
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2020-12-27T19:00:27 < jpa-> https://p.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/B1161378890/Spring-Loaded-Pogo-Pin.jpg   does someone know how pick&placers handle smd spring contacts like this?
2020-12-27T19:00:56 < dongs> is that a smd pogo pin?
2020-12-27T19:01:08 < jpa-> yeah
2020-12-27T19:03:31 < dongs> https://www.mill-max.com/sites/default/files/2017-12/PR603.jpg apparently they come on tape
2020-12-27T19:03:39 < dongs> who fucking knows how its pickd up
2020-12-27T19:03:51 < dongs> maybe just sucked in the center with a bigger diameter sucker?
2020-12-27T19:04:14 < karlp> yeah, panel got whacked here, didn't see any poit in trying to give it away, jsutt pulled it open to tlook at it.
2020-12-27T19:04:17 < dongs> sucker sucks the "pin" and makes it stuck at the middle section thats stationary
2020-12-27T19:04:24 < jpa-> that could work
2020-12-27T19:04:42 < dongs> that would be my guess without doing some specialized head/jig for doing them
2020-12-27T19:05:29 < jpa-> though looks like the ones i've been looking at only come in bags
2020-12-27T19:05:52 < jpa-> so, i guess i'll be tweezering them..
2020-12-27T19:07:10 < dongs> https://www.yac.co.jp/en/mechatronics/product/pogopin.html japs have a specialized machine for inserting them
2020-12-27T19:07:57 < dongs> but my guess is just the way i said.
2020-12-27T19:13:10 < dongs> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF4/issues/10#issuecomment-730376930 NICE haha
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2020-12-27T19:22:50 < fenugrec> heh they have a "spotted before customer" label for issues
2020-12-27T19:23:33 < jpa-> "we knew it was buggy!"
2020-12-27T19:24:57 < Steffanx> Time for me to post some new issues then
2020-12-27T19:25:26 < Steffanx> Such wonderful SD card lib for F7.
2020-12-27T19:25:46 < Steffanx> With the most wonderful race conditions, dma incompatibilities and what not.
2020-12-27T19:25:59 < Steffanx> oh and blocking transfers in interrupts. <3
2020-12-27T19:26:42 < fenugrec> I wonder if nxp & others are doing a better job on their libs
2020-12-27T19:27:05 < Steffanx> no
2020-12-27T19:27:35 < Steffanx> NXP not for sure.
2020-12-27T19:28:14 < fenugrec> mchip ? haven't used any recent mcus from them
2020-12-27T19:28:33 < Steffanx> Atmel now microchip has ASF but im not sure about that
2020-12-27T19:29:12 < fenugrec> englishman, does msp430 have the best libs in the industry
2020-12-27T19:30:15 < Steffanx> duh
2020-12-27T19:33:30 < fenugrec> Anyone using Lely's canopen stack (https://gitlab.com/lely_industries/lely-core) on stm32 ?
2020-12-27T19:36:16 < qyx> looks good on first sigh
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2020-12-27T19:58:39 < englishman> it was rather trivial to include the msp430 cdc-usb middleware
2020-12-27T19:58:55 < englishman> although it eats some resources
2020-12-27T20:11:25 < mawk> Steffanx redhat didn't update newlib's doc
2020-12-27T20:11:27 < mawk> lock retarget has been added by ARM employees in 2016
2020-12-27T20:11:29 < mawk> according to git blame
2020-12-27T20:23:02 < t4nk_freenode> anyone got experience with crossdev and gentoo for stm32?
2020-12-27T20:24:14 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I know.. I'm doing it myself now.. : with experience, and willing to help me :b
2020-12-27T20:25:12 < t4nk_freenode> as in.. I don't understand heads nor tails of it, gotta put stuff in the freezer, brb
2020-12-27T20:25:20 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: I was using it for some time, but it was occassionally problematic.
2020-12-27T20:41:56 < mawk> fenugrec nrf
2020-12-27T20:55:49 < fenugrec> nrf what
2020-12-27T20:56:32 < fenugrec> their zephyr stuff seems to use canopennode
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2020-12-27T20:58:52 < mawk> nrf, it's a brand of chips
2020-12-27T20:58:55 < mawk> nrf5
2020-12-27T20:59:01 < mawk> like nrf52840
2020-12-27T20:59:05 < mawk> they have good libs
2020-12-27T20:59:12 < mawk> no idea about their zephyr stuff
2020-12-27T20:59:16 < mawk> I use the nrf5 sdk
2020-12-27T20:59:19 < mawk> the good old sdk
2020-12-27T20:59:29 < mawk> I should make a make:r IoT pill crusher
2020-12-27T20:59:31 < fenugrec> heh I know, I was wondering what you were replying too, good/bad libs or canopen 
2020-12-27T20:59:37 < mawk> for optimized pill snorting
2020-12-27T21:00:30 < mawk> cut in 4 with razorblade, put in postit, fold it, crush with lighter, tap the powder out on a mirror, crush it further with razorblade, make lines with credit card
2020-12-27T21:00:34 < mawk> this is very tedious
2020-12-27T21:00:38 < mawk> there is room for automation
2020-12-27T21:01:05 < fenugrec> ball mill 
2020-12-27T21:01:19 < mawk> you know how fiends are
2020-12-27T21:01:26 < mawk> there shouldn't be a microgram of loss
2020-12-27T21:01:36 < mawk> with a ball mill I fear some powder will be lost
2020-12-27T21:02:35 < fenugrec> lâche la poud'
2020-12-27T21:02:41 < mawk> lol
2020-12-27T21:02:44 < mawk> nn
2020-12-27T21:07:28 < mawk> la poud c la vie
2020-12-27T21:24:14 < Steffanx> Arent french into guillotines?
2020-12-27T21:24:44 < Mangy_Dog> yay i love good news
2020-12-27T21:25:08 < Mangy_Dog> turns out the f103C8s i have are the lovely rebadged binned F103CBs
2020-12-27T21:25:09 < Mangy_Dog> sooooo
2020-12-27T21:25:15 < Mangy_Dog> more than 64k of flash :)
2020-12-27T21:25:34 < mawk> you won't even use 1k anyway
2020-12-27T21:25:47 < t4nk_freenode> heck, he can't even code ;)
2020-12-27T21:25:57 < Mangy_Dog> i dont want to push it in case its not the full 128kb
2020-12-27T21:26:02 < Mangy_Dog> cough
2020-12-27T21:26:13 < Mangy_Dog> the current project is 57kb already
2020-12-27T21:26:18 < Mangy_Dog> so i was aproaching the limit
2020-12-27T21:26:57 < Mangy_Dog> this is with USB serial disabled as well
2020-12-27T21:27:03 < Mangy_Dog> i had to double check
2020-12-27T21:27:37 < Mangy_Dog> in any case... while ill try and keep things bellow 64kb i dont need to worry if i go over now
2020-12-27T21:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> ive still got tons of UI pages to program and script
2020-12-27T21:28:03 < Mangy_Dog> but the vast majority of the core stuff is done now
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2020-12-27T21:40:25 < qyx> untangling 75 m of a polyurethane cable is a stunning experience
2020-12-27T21:45:41 < zyp> fun
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2020-12-27T21:54:02 < Steffanx> Why did you tangle it qyx?
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2020-12-27T22:14:29 < qyx> it is self-tangling
2020-12-27T22:15:00 < qyx> I tried to cut it to required lengths
2020-12-27T22:15:11 < qyx> but the damned thing doesn't have meter marks
2020-12-27T22:19:08 < machinehum> https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
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2020-12-27T22:27:19 < mawk> old
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2020-12-27T22:37:17 < PaulFertser> machinehum: that's entertaining to read, thanks
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2020-12-27T22:53:55 < fenugrec> For the record, I've been trying to "simply" compile CANopenNode ; wasted many hours and it's still a broken mess. That lely stack is looking more and more interesting... not sure I can afford the RAM though
2020-12-27T23:07:45 < karlp> anyone know what this triangle bits are for? this is in the EMI filter input stage of a mains supply for a tv: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/7HYti8zfPZyq2Na
2020-12-27T23:08:13 < karlp> is it to be able to solder bridge the filters out if desired?
2020-12-27T23:09:38 < fenugrec> karlp, cheap-o spark gaps
2020-12-27T23:09:47 < PaulFertser> karlp: are you sure those are not literal spark gaps?
2020-12-27T23:09:56 < Steffanx> yes they are
2020-12-27T23:10:11 < karlp> spark gaps for what purpose?
2020-12-27T23:10:31 < PaulFertser> lightning shit
2020-12-27T23:11:01 < karlp> I don't get it.
2020-12-27T23:11:23 < karlp> the other side of that is a coil, those teeth go underneath it.
2020-12-27T23:11:38 < Steffanx> our most wonderful Dave has a video about it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfP_65gSSBU&feature=emb_title
2020-12-27T23:12:03 < karlp> ok, that will do thanks :)
2020-12-27T23:13:21 < karlp> kinda wish it wsan't a 20 minute video, but ok :)
2020-12-27T23:13:29 < PaulFertser> The size of the SMD pads and amount of paste is interesting. Looks beefier than your usual circuity.
2020-12-27T23:13:39 < karlp> god I hate this way of "blogs and text are passe, let's bury it all inside video"
2020-12-27T23:14:12 < fenugrec> blogs are always unsesarchable, ephemeral garbage
2020-12-27T23:14:28 < fenugrec> sorted by date ? awesome concept for technical stuff
2020-12-27T23:14:36 < jadew> man... drone laws are super limiting
2020-12-27T23:14:58 < jadew> you're basically not allowed to do anything, other than fly it in a field
2020-12-27T23:15:11 < jadew> for anything else you need approval from the ministry of defence
2020-12-27T23:15:23 < jadew> it's ridiculous
2020-12-27T23:15:28 < mawk> go to a better country
2020-12-27T23:15:34 < Steffanx> no go to dutchland then
2020-12-27T23:15:37 < karlp> blogs are text, they get indexed, and are searchable
2020-12-27T23:15:42 < karlp> and you can skim them.
2020-12-27T23:15:48 < Steffanx> but you know what to google for now
2020-12-27T23:15:53 < Steffanx> easy peasy
2020-12-27T23:15:58 < fenugrec> they also seem to disappear more than any other type of web content
2020-12-27T23:16:37 < jadew> Steffanx, I think it's EU-wide
2020-12-27T23:16:52 < Steffanx> idk about that
2020-12-27T23:16:54 < karlp> Steffanx: yes, I mean in general :)
2020-12-27T23:16:59 < Steffanx> but in dutchland its bad
2020-12-27T23:17:04 < Steffanx> always has been
2020-12-27T23:17:12 < karlp> so it's only designed for ttaking a pulse and absorbing the energy into the arc discharge.
2020-12-27T23:17:31 < jadew> Steffanx, from what I'm reading the laws are pretty much the same across europe, I guess particular countries can make it worse tho
2020-12-27T23:17:44 < jadew> Steffanx, how could it be worse?
2020-12-27T23:17:49 < jadew> you can barely use a drone in here
2020-12-27T23:18:37 < karlp> here it was anything intended for toy/recreation was ~unlimited, anything over a certain weight, or for commercial used needed heavy permitting, and that's coming in via "new" (ish) eu regs.
2020-12-27T23:19:22 < jadew> karlp, in here, it takes the form of permits for drones above 500g
2020-12-27T23:19:50 < jadew> but for all drones: no flying where there are buildings, no flying outside of the line of sight and not too far
2020-12-27T23:20:02 < jadew> no photographing, anywhere
2020-12-27T23:20:46 < jadew> you can do all of that with a permit from the defence ministry tho
2020-12-27T23:21:01 < jadew> permit for a particular flight, not for you
2020-12-27T23:21:38 < jadew> you're basically not allowed to do anything, other than fly a toy on a deserted field
2020-12-27T23:22:22 < jadew> seems very unreasonable
2020-12-27T23:22:40 < jadew> kills the industry really
2020-12-27T23:23:38 < Steffanx> The chinese industry.. lol
2020-12-27T23:23:57 < jadew> well, it prohibits local companies from emerging too
2020-12-27T23:24:03 < jadew> no customers, no company
2020-12-27T23:24:14 < Steffanx> More of all, ruined the hobby of all the diy quadcopter makers.
2020-12-27T23:24:35 < qyx> wait what
2020-12-27T23:24:38 < Steffanx> *most
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2020-12-27T23:26:37 < Steffanx> hi qyx
2020-12-27T23:28:14 < jadew> ok, I'm reading on a forum and it seems this is not the EU legislation
2020-12-27T23:28:26 < jadew> the EU legislation is going to be EU-wide and is going to be more lax
2020-12-27T23:28:28 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that video however doesn't seem to explain why exactly it makes sense to put spark gaps in parallel with L filters.
2020-12-27T23:29:30 < fenugrec> I understand it has to do with dV/dt and bypassing stuff with "fragile" insulation
2020-12-27T23:31:10 < machinehum> PaulFertser: np, I thought it was pretty interesting
2020-12-27T23:32:40 < Steffanx> idk, i didnt watch it PaulFertser :P
2020-12-27T23:39:32 < mawk> I found a gun in my grandfather stuff
2020-12-27T23:39:49 < mawk> it was to my great-great-grandfather, he was a train inspector
2020-12-27T23:39:56 < mawk> it's very cute
2020-12-27T23:42:46 < aandrew> balls
2020-12-27T23:42:59 < aandrew> one of these fucking stm32s that can't be "caught" for SWD
2020-12-27T23:43:24 < aandrew> if BOOT=1 then it's fine but even if I erase the flash it won't let me do anything with BOOT=0
2020-12-27T23:44:04 < aandrew> it finds a DP over SWD (0x6BA02477) but can't halt or do anything
2020-12-27T23:45:53 < mawk> connect under reset aandrew 
2020-12-27T23:46:13 < mawk> connect NRST then reset_config foobar in openocd
2020-12-27T23:46:59 < aandrew> yeah I've tried that too, have to dick with it a bit (not my hardware so have to see if their schematic matches the hardware)
2020-12-27T23:47:02 < PaulFertser> connect_assert_srst
2020-12-27T23:47:13 < mawk> reset_config srst_only separate srst_nogate srst_open_drain connect_assert_srst
2020-12-27T23:47:15 < mawk> something like this
2020-12-27T23:47:40 < PaulFertser> All defaults already. Just srst_only belongs to the board config.
2020-12-27T23:47:49 < mawk> a
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2020-12-27T23:49:36 < aandrew> oh ffs
2020-12-27T23:49:36 < mawk> at least with nrf you cannot prevent SWD from working
2020-12-27T23:49:45 < aandrew> I've broken swd with nrf before
2020-12-27T23:49:50 < mawk> if you disable SWD then there is a fake ctrl-ap put in place instead that allows you to mass erase
2020-12-27T23:49:55 < mawk> so in any case you're never stuck
2020-12-27T23:50:08 < aandrew> mawk: if you program the option bits to kill the internal regulators you're kind of fucked
2020-12-27T23:50:09 < mawk> well if you lower the target voltage sure you can "break it"
2020-12-27T23:50:11 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-27T23:50:15 < aandrew> you have to back-power the thing and reset them
2020-12-27T23:50:18 < mawk> but then use your super pro 600€ probe that can do 1.8V
2020-12-27T23:50:31 < mawk> we all have that right?
2020-12-27T23:50:32 < aandrew> I see the issue
2020-12-27T23:50:45 < aandrew> they connected the FPGAs and PCIe bridge JTAG in parallel with the STM32
2020-12-27T23:50:50 < aandrew> so it's not a chain, you have to depop the shit
2020-12-27T23:50:56 < mawk> ah
2020-12-27T23:51:03 < mawk> get your knife out
2020-12-27T23:51:05 < mawk> cut the trace
2020-12-27T23:51:21 < aandrew> nah there's 0Rs here
2020-12-27T23:51:24 < fenugrec> a fun one was a recent Cube update : it auto-initialized "unused" GPIOs, like SWD+SWC, to analog inputs to Save Power
2020-12-27T23:51:33 < mawk> lol
2020-12-27T23:51:46 < aandrew> hm, this looks like it may be JTAG after all but wtf
2020-12-27T23:51:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: https://www.tiaowiki.com/w/TIAO_USB_Multi_Protocol_Adapter_User%27s_Manual should be good down to 1.8 V.
2020-12-27T23:52:38 < mawk> ah cool PaulFertser 
2020-12-27T23:53:13 < PaulFertser> But not for their SWD header.
2020-12-27T23:53:14 < Steffanx> Pics mawk?
2020-12-27T23:53:28 < mawk> ah not cool
2020-12-27T23:53:31 < mawk> yes Steffanx let's see
2020-12-27T23:53:39 < PaulFertser> So for swd you'd need to use jtag header plus resistor hack, should work just fine.
2020-12-27T23:53:52 < Steffanx> No, I want a picture of your gun mawk. 
2020-12-27T23:54:10 < Steffanx> Sexy time.
2020-12-27T23:54:20 < mawk> yes that's what I understood
2020-12-27T23:54:32 < mawk> what's resistor hack PaulFertser ? you mean you can force it to use the jtag pins?
2020-12-27T23:54:35 < mawk> for swd
2020-12-27T23:54:42 < mawk> what's swc aandrew 
2020-12-27T23:55:21 < PaulFertser> mawk: yes, you connect TDO and TDI with a resistor to make it "fake bidirectional" and then to SWDIO.
2020-12-27T23:56:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: a resistor big enough for the target to be able to override adapter's TDI, but small enough for TDI to get to the target in reasonable shape when it's adapter's turn to talk.
2020-12-27T23:57:17 < mawk> I see
2020-12-27T23:59:32 < mawk> Steffanx https://imgur.com/a/CjnwSZH
--- Day changed Mon Dec 28 2020
2020-12-28T00:01:15 < PaulFertser> https://www.seeedstudio.com/Bus-Blaster-v4-p-1416.html works down to 1.8 V too. And has CPLD which implements SWD properly.
2020-12-28T00:01:23 < Steffanx> Heh mawk
2020-12-28T00:01:51 < mawk> I think it's 6 shots
2020-12-28T00:02:13 < Steffanx> Better sell it for $400
2020-12-28T00:02:21 < mawk> why
2020-12-28T00:02:23 < mawk> it's cute
2020-12-28T00:02:25 < mawk> I keep it
2020-12-28T00:02:37 < mawk> there's no safety lock lol
2020-12-28T00:03:04 < mawk> well I can dial the squeeze force all to maximum so it doesn't go too easily, but that's all
2020-12-28T00:03:55 < Laurenceb> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/yRUEg8310U.jpeg
2020-12-28T00:06:22 < mawk> lol
2020-12-28T00:14:16 < karlp> what is that, a 22 pistol?
2020-12-28T00:14:27 < karlp> or something esoteric and unobtainum?
2020-12-28T00:21:44 < karlp> PaulFertser: as best I can tell, the "in parallel with the L filter" is just convenience.
2020-12-28T00:22:09 < karlp> for the AC input stage, you need them inline, so doesn't really matter where, and under the L like that is easy and available space
2020-12-28T00:22:37 < karlp> https://youtu.be/vfP_65gSSBU?t=676 has an other example with exactly that.
2020-12-28T00:23:26 < mawk> it's french, karlp 
2020-12-28T00:23:46 < mawk> 6.35mm calibre
2020-12-28T00:25:09 < karlp> about 0.25 then.
2020-12-28T00:26:04 < mawk> it's very easy to disassemble
2020-12-28T00:26:53 < mawk> https://www.hlebooks.com/francais/franc01.htm
2020-12-28T00:28:18 < mawk> but I have no bullets for it
2020-12-28T00:30:26 < Steffanx> ask englishman
2020-12-28T00:30:29 < Steffanx> or mr cummy
2020-12-28T00:30:36 < Steffanx> *commy
2020-12-28T00:30:53 < Steffanx> Better not take it to dutchland mawk
2020-12-28T00:30:55 < Steffanx> i dont trust you with it
2020-12-28T00:31:03 < mawk> lol
2020-12-28T00:31:11 < Steffanx> also ILLEGAL MUCH
2020-12-28T00:31:21 < mawk> who cares about the law
2020-12-28T00:32:47 < Steffanx> yo momma
2020-12-28T00:33:48 < mawk> ah yes
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2020-12-28T01:01:57 < aandrew> ok, forced BOOT=1, erased flash, now I can connect with BOOT=0
2020-12-28T01:02:20 < aandrew> I'm going to double check to make sure that SWD pins aren't configured to analog
2020-12-28T01:13:38 < mawk> good
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2020-12-28T01:59:30 < Mangy_Dog> woah
2020-12-28T01:59:32 < Mangy_Dog> wait
2020-12-28T01:59:54 < Mangy_Dog> freertos stack sizes are 32bitx the vvalue given
2020-12-28T02:00:37 < Mangy_Dog> 32bit x the value entered
2020-12-28T02:00:46 < Mangy_Dog> sooo default minimal stack size is 140 words
2020-12-28T02:01:02 < Mangy_Dog> thats 4KB
2020-12-28T02:01:08 < Mangy_Dog> umm Kb
2020-12-28T02:01:40 < Mangy_Dog> damn im exhaustined
2020-12-28T02:01:44 < Mangy_Dog> exhausted
2020-12-28T02:01:49 < Mangy_Dog> brain is foggy
2020-12-28T02:02:18 < Mangy_Dog> okok
2020-12-28T02:02:21 < Mangy_Dog> few
2020-12-28T02:02:23 < Mangy_Dog> phew
2020-12-28T02:02:28 < Mangy_Dog> its 20KB of ram
2020-12-28T02:02:51 < Mangy_Dog> if it was Kb that would suck up all the ram in no time
2020-12-28T02:03:10 < Mangy_Dog> still need to see if i can reduce the minimum stack size for the lesser of threads
2020-12-28T02:03:21 < Mangy_Dog> i do have a couple of threads that do very little... like trigger the buzzer
2020-12-28T02:04:45 < Mangy_Dog> ill impliment this tomorrow as my brain really cant think straight https://www.freertos.org/uxTaskGetStackHighWaterMark.html 
2020-12-28T02:04:55 < Mangy_Dog> but at least then i can see how much i can safely reduce things to
2020-12-28T02:06:05 < mawk> the value is in words yes Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-28T02:06:07 < mawk> just read the docs
2020-12-28T02:06:22 < mawk> "minimal stack size" is the size of the idle task Mangy_Dog 
2020-12-28T02:06:26 < mawk> nothing more, nothing less
2020-12-28T02:06:29 < mawk> it has nothing to do with your own tasks
2020-12-28T02:06:33 < mawk> don't mess with that value
2020-12-28T02:06:37 < mawk> keep default
2020-12-28T02:09:10 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-28T02:12:05 < Mangy_Dog> ok calculating it all up.. roughly 3KB so far dedicated to threads
2020-12-28T02:12:12 < Mangy_Dog> out of 20KB
2020-12-28T02:13:30 < Mangy_Dog> add a few more KB for all the globals im using :D
2020-12-28T02:13:34 < Mangy_Dog> ok i should be ok
2020-12-28T02:14:02 < Mangy_Dog> though arduino compiler says all my globals are taking 14KB
2020-12-28T02:14:10 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming that includes the thread stack size as well
2020-12-28T02:14:55 < Mangy_Dog> because fek me if it isnt... That means i only have 3KB left to play with to finish the project in
2020-12-28T02:15:03 < Mangy_Dog> i mean ram useage there...
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2020-12-28T02:15:39 < Mangy_Dog> i deffo need to come up with some slightly more efficiant ways of storing stuff 
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2020-12-28T02:15:46 < Mangy_Dog> anyway
2020-12-28T02:15:50 < Mangy_Dog> my brain is fried
2020-12-28T02:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> i need sleep
2020-12-28T02:18:13 < dongs> > arduino compiler
2020-12-28T02:18:13 < dongs> wat
2020-12-28T02:19:02 < antto> there ain't no such thang as a crapduino compil0r
2020-12-28T02:19:02 < Mangy_Dog> while im compiling in eclipse... reading it off arduino is a cheap quick way to read its size
2020-12-28T02:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> gives me an idea how much i need to save where i can
2020-12-28T02:19:39 < dongs> size of what ? wtf are you even doing
2020-12-28T02:19:39 < Mangy_Dog> but now i have debugging tools working... i can use that to check thigns
2020-12-28T02:19:43 < antto> toss the crapduino and switch to C++
2020-12-28T02:19:52 < dongs> forget C++, just switch to C
2020-12-28T02:19:57 < antto> no
2020-12-28T02:20:02 < antto> C++ or gtfo
2020-12-28T02:20:07 < Mangy_Dog> dongs my project is currently aroung 57KB compiled 
2020-12-28T02:20:27 < dongs> why would you need tarduino to tell you that tho
2020-12-28T02:20:27 < Mangy_Dog> nearly maxed out the f103C8s rated flash size....
2020-12-28T02:20:45 < dongs> well, if you used keil and LTO i bet you could halve that
2020-12-28T02:20:52 < Mangy_Dog> because the readout at the end of the compile in eclipse is only on screen for about 0.5 seconds
2020-12-28T02:20:55 < dongs> is that with -O0 ?
2020-12-28T02:21:12 < dongs> > on screen for about 0.5 seconds
2020-12-28T02:21:15 < antto> toss that ecl0pse sh*t bruh
2020-12-28T02:21:17 < dongs> isnt it in "output" tab or someshit
2020-12-28T02:21:31 < Mangy_Dog> consol tab
2020-12-28T02:21:37 < dongs> arm-none-eabi-size
2020-12-28T02:21:38 < dongs> yueah console
2020-12-28T02:21:42 < dongs> just run that again on the .elf
2020-12-28T02:21:43 < Mangy_Dog> but it clears the consol just before it runs the upload
2020-12-28T02:21:46 < dongs> what
2020-12-28T02:21:47 < fenugrec> open the "build analyzer" window.
2020-12-28T02:21:50 < dongs> lmao lol @ eclipse
2020-12-28T02:22:01 < fenugrec> shitclipse
2020-12-28T02:22:02 < Mangy_Dog> also as for -0
2020-12-28T02:22:07 < Mangy_Dog> its something.....
2020-12-28T02:22:12 < dongs> fenugrec: where is that even
2020-12-28T02:22:26 < Mangy_Dog> rogerclards core just calls it smallest(default)
2020-12-28T02:22:40 < antto> wasn't ecl0pse written in java or some similar grade trash?
2020-12-28T02:22:41 < fenugrec> dongs, no idea, but I found it once and I'm not closing it
2020-12-28T02:22:45 < dongs> lmao
2020-12-28T02:23:07 < fenugrec> if java people find eclips somehow intuitive or usable, no wonder java is garbage
2020-12-28T02:23:26 < dongs> well its not under window
2020-12-28T02:23:30 < dongs> menu
2020-12-28T02:23:44 < dongs> but yeah, lol @ actually using dicklipse to flash
2020-12-28T02:23:48 < dongs> mangy_dong, do you ahev a jlink
2020-12-28T02:23:54 < dongs> or one of those disgusting $2 stlink clones
2020-12-28T02:24:02 < fenugrec> Window->show view-> build analyzer. Could be some cubeide thing
2020-12-28T02:24:07 < Mangy_Dog> i have a stlink yes
2020-12-28T02:24:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah thats not in this thing fenugrec
2020-12-28T02:24:40 < dongs> fenugrec: yeah not here on SW4STM32
2020-12-28T02:24:43 < dongs> lulz
2020-12-28T02:24:50 < dongs> i think shitcube ide is newer crap
2020-12-28T02:25:05 < dongs> Mangy_Dog: invest in jlink or clone, then you can use ozone as proper flashing/debug tool
2020-12-28T02:25:17 < Mangy_Dog> i like my stlink :(
2020-12-28T02:25:21 < antto> hey who shat in the icecube form
2020-12-28T02:25:24 < dongs> its literally garbage
2020-12-28T02:25:26 < fenugrec> it is newer crap. isnt SW4thing discontinued / superceded
2020-12-28T02:25:34 < dongs> idk but this dumb proj uses it
2020-12-28T02:25:40 < dongs> i only use it to build
2020-12-28T02:25:45 < Mangy_Dog> Also I did it once before im pretty sure the stlink can be flashed to work as a jlink
2020-12-28T02:25:48 < dongs> and i prolly shouldnt evbe do that
2020-12-28T02:25:57 < dongs> o yeah idk about clones tho
2020-12-28T02:26:06 < dongs> it might need legit st bootloader but chinks prolly extracted that by now
2020-12-28T02:26:25 < fenugrec> cubeide is horrible, but it does have the SVD register def things worked out so debugging is usable
2020-12-28T02:26:26 < dongs> can you 'upgrade' stlink clones using official st utility?
2020-12-28T02:26:36 < Mangy_Dog> yes but id rather not
2020-12-28T02:26:38 < dongs> ozone supports svd stuff too
2020-12-28T02:26:48 < Mangy_Dog> with this stlink its one of the duff designs that have the reset pin on the wrong pin
2020-12-28T02:26:59 < Mangy_Dog> so its a hacked firmware to change the reset pin
2020-12-28T02:27:38 < fenugrec> cubeide has a nice feature "import atollicstudio project" that actually does exactly nothing and silently fails with no explanation
2020-12-28T02:27:47 < Mangy_Dog> heh
2020-12-28T02:28:23 < fenugrec> also working with other people is broken if the cubeide + fcube versions don't match to the last digit
2020-12-28T02:29:22 < Steffanx> Never had that issue
2020-12-28T02:29:57  * antto neither
2020-12-28T02:29:58 < antto> >:)
2020-12-28T02:30:30 < fenugrec> twice, around 1.3.0 and 1.4.0
2020-12-28T02:30:52 < fenugrec> cannot open blabla "This file has been generated with STM32CubeMX version '6.0.1'.Your current STM32CubeMX version is '6.0.0'. "
2020-12-28T02:31:20 < Mangy_Dog> oh joy
2020-12-28T02:31:26 < antto> oh noes, a kewb from tha future
2020-12-28T02:31:26 < Mangy_Dog> openOCD has just stopped working
2020-12-28T02:32:03 < fenugrec> (ozone = free ? seggr "embedded studio" is 1200U, can't justify that on this project)
2020-12-28T02:32:17 < dongs> fenugrec: yes free
2020-12-28T02:32:22 < dongs> ozone is just debugger
2020-12-28T02:32:29 < dongs> the best part about it is it only flashes changed blocks
2020-12-28T02:32:33 < dongs> instead of erase * and reflash.
2020-12-28T02:32:51 < dongs> so when you change one variable someweher and rebuild/flash, its usually instant as it clears out a single small block of flash
2020-12-28T02:32:51 < fenugrec> right, I see - just load your .elf + connect ; does it browse source files ? i.e. breakpoints etc
2020-12-28T02:32:56 < dongs> yes
2020-12-28T02:32:59 < dongs> full source debugging
2020-12-28T02:33:04 < dongs> can step through shit etc.
2020-12-28T02:33:17 < dongs> the elf should have debug info obviously
2020-12-28T02:34:48 < fenugrec> ill have to try. I'm used to codin in codeblocks + compile with make, but setting up C:B for stm32 is nontrivial
2020-12-28T02:35:29 < antto> bruh, f*ck makefiles
2020-12-28T02:36:35 < fenugrec> it's ok with cmake. I don't manually write rules - list sources, options, flags, and it takes care of dependencies etc
2020-12-28T02:36:38 < dongs> well ozone doesnt compile anythin for you. for ozone projects i usually edit in vstudio, compile with keil, and then debug in ozone. so for your usecase you can edit /build in whatevar and alt-tab to ozone to flash. also if told, it will automatically reload .elf when its modified and re-flash it + restart
2020-12-28T02:36:50 < Mangy_Dog> right im gonna go to bed
2020-12-28T02:36:56 < Mangy_Dog> n nall
2020-12-28T02:37:12 < fenugrec> dongs, yea that's what I have in mind. Shouldn't be more complicated than that
2020-12-28T02:37:12 < dongs> so when you tab over to ozone window it immediately picks up changes and reloads.
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2020-12-28T02:37:15 < dongs> very handy
2020-12-28T02:37:51 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/SOvC6bv.png
2020-12-28T02:38:30 < fenugrec> antto, cool; I know it can be done but how many hours did you spend setting it up to work ok
2020-12-28T02:38:44 < antto> uh hours
2020-12-28T02:38:47 < fenugrec> the only correct answer "less time than you swearing at cubeide"
2020-12-28T02:38:55 < dongs> is this a lunix desktop
2020-12-28T02:39:16 < dongs> is this code:cocks?
2020-12-28T02:39:29 < fenugrec> it says at that top
2020-12-28T02:39:29 < antto> shut ur eyeballz dongs
2020-12-28T02:40:41 < fenugrec> you have the project / filelist tab on the right ? cursed rebel
2020-12-28T02:41:05 < antto> the toolbarz are all dockable ya know
2020-12-28T02:41:09 < antto> wxAUI
2020-12-28T02:41:54 < antto> i have a different feng-shui at $job where i mainly use portrait mode 1080x1920
2020-12-28T02:43:15 < dongs> imagine not using 4K in 2020
2020-12-28T02:43:21 < antto> pls
2020-12-28T02:45:46 < antto> this is a 24" monitor, i also got a 17" 5:4 one, this desk ain't infinite
2020-12-28T02:46:23 < antto> there's also a cat usually on the desk too
2020-12-28T02:46:51 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/Xf7KrMq.jpg
2020-12-28T02:48:33 < dongs> yeah, i was on 24" 4ks for years, upgraded to 27" 4Ks but the bezels are so thin its almost same size as 24
2020-12-28T02:48:43 < dongs> 1080 on 24" is fucking giant, you can see the pixels
2020-12-28T02:48:56 < antto> that's the point
2020-12-28T02:49:10 < dongs> i dont want to see pixels
2020-12-28T02:49:19 < antto> ur doing it wrong
2020-12-28T02:49:38 < antto> you've been tricked by "them"
2020-12-28T02:51:32 < antto> but it can be pretty simple.. there are a few small bitmap fonts from back when fonts were kewl, if you can't read them on ur monitor cuz they're too smol - you're doing it wrong
2020-12-28T02:52:39 < antto> like, the font in muh IDE
2020-12-28T02:52:59 < antto> it's not the smol-est size, but it's pretty smol
2020-12-28T02:55:12 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/KWo8S11.png
2020-12-28T02:55:51 < qyx> such pixels
2020-12-28T02:55:53  * qyx hates
2020-12-28T02:56:04 < antto> how dare u
2020-12-28T02:56:18 < qyx> rgb subpixel antialiasing + full hinting
2020-12-28T02:56:32 < fenugrec> listening to your own tracks ? selfpromote ftw
2020-12-28T02:56:41 < antto> subpixel antialiasing is another thing that's f*cking wrong
2020-12-28T02:56:50 < antto> but it's too late now
2020-12-28T02:57:05 < dongs> lunix font rendering is a joke
2020-12-28T02:57:22 < dongs> "freedom" over "quality" lolz
2020-12-28T02:58:02 < antto> i'll make sure u get treuffelz in prison
2020-12-28T02:59:15 < antto> fenugrec, who else gon listen to my garbage
2020-12-28T02:59:21 < effractur> but like
2020-12-28T02:59:30 < effractur> subpixel rendering is also horrible withi windows
2020-12-28T02:59:45 < effractur> afaik wayland should fix that a bit 
2020-12-28T02:59:49 < effractur> but did not try it out
2020-12-28T03:00:00 < antto> no, forget whether it is implemented "nice" or "ugly" .. it's f*cking wrong in general
2020-12-28T03:00:05 < antto> the idea is f*cking wrong
2020-12-28T03:00:39 < antto> also this hinting sh*t is wrong too
2020-12-28T03:00:58 < qyx> k I'll use bitmap fonts from now on
2020-12-28T03:01:25 < antto> font rendering in general became very f*cked up ever since LCDs
2020-12-28T03:02:12 < antto> because LCDs show the image in a pretty wrong way
2020-12-28T03:17:03 < dongs> lets all go back to CRTs and 640x480 screens
2020-12-28T03:17:08 < dongs> cuz thats the highest resolution lunix desktrop supports
2020-12-28T03:17:19 < antto> pls
2020-12-28T03:30:11 < mawk> you make music antto ?
2020-12-28T03:30:15 < mawk> and you listen to your own music???
2020-12-28T03:35:27 < fenugrec> dongs templeos had 640x480 for a reason
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2020-12-28T04:01:33 < dongs> true
2020-12-28T04:01:55 < dongs> templeos best os
2020-12-28T04:14:18 < karlp> spoken like a true prophet :)
2020-12-28T04:21:36 < BrainDamage> subpixel hinting exists because monitors still don't have enough pixel density to trick the eye
2020-12-28T04:22:14 < BrainDamage> I tried a naive calculation based off eye size, and I got ~900DPI at 50cm distance, which is your typical monitor
2020-12-28T04:22:22 < karlp> oh, dongs, yoiu'd be happy, I bought a 4k tv today...
2020-12-28T04:22:55 < BrainDamage> granted, the retina cone density and brain processing mechanism might furter limit it, but it's nice to have an upper bound
2020-12-28T04:23:27 < karlp> how fucking old was that annto scvreengrab?!
2020-12-28T04:23:54 < BrainDamage> if you take an average modern high density monitor with 270DPI, and do subpixel dithering, you get quite close to that 900DPI limit
2020-12-28T04:23:56 < fenugrec> karlp should've bought a keyboard instead of a tv  huhu
2020-12-28T04:24:05 < karlp> haha
2020-12-28T04:24:16 < BrainDamage> with price penalty that you can get colour aberration
2020-12-28T04:24:37 < karlp> keyboard just, sometimes, maybe because of me, makes extra ts and ns and h's and loses spaces because I tryu and type to fast :9
2020-12-28T04:24:49 < BrainDamage> ... or wait that screens get 3x denser :p
2020-12-28T04:24:51 < karlp> but old tv was beaten by daughtter 2
2020-12-28T04:24:58 < karlp> so new tv was required sooner or later
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2020-12-28T05:26:30 < englishman> that's cool mawk
2020-12-28T05:26:42 < englishman> looks like it was in production for almost 80 years
2020-12-28T05:27:39 < englishman> 6.35mm is 25ACP I think
2020-12-28T05:28:14 < englishman> a gun made so even the poorest of the poor could afford to shoot people
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2020-12-28T07:22:45 < jadew> man... memory technology has advanced so much
2020-12-28T07:24:06 < jadew> 256 Gb microSD for less than $50
2020-12-28T07:24:38 < jadew> 256 GB in that little space
2020-12-28T07:24:52 < jadew> that's lots of bits
2020-12-28T07:25:10 < jadew> and there's a component in there, storing each one of them
2020-12-28T07:25:27 < jadew> and wiring
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2020-12-28T08:29:12 < mawk> lol englishman 
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2020-12-28T10:24:20 < mawk> did you make her pay for it karlp ?
2020-12-28T10:27:31 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a known issue with a L031 or STM32's I2C HW implementation where it would basically break the bus/internal state machine?
2020-12-28T10:28:10 < ColdKeyboard> I don't have to power cycle the bus, disconnect the bus or anything, just resetting the STM and bus works great and after a while it breaks again... :)
2020-12-28T10:29:07 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: there's a known issue with F1 but it shouldn't be present anywhere else.
2020-12-28T10:30:32 < ColdKeyboard> :\
2020-12-28T10:31:08 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: have you checked all the I2C status registers?
2020-12-28T10:31:11 < ColdKeyboard> I tried manually clearing flags before transmitting and that seemed to help but not entirely. It just prolongs the period before failures...
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2020-12-28T10:36:40 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: for the reference, something like this helps on F1 https://github.com/Ralim/ts100/blob/master/workspace/TS100/Core/BSP/Miniware/BSP.cpp#L268
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2020-12-28T10:38:19 < ColdKeyboard> Ok, I'll take a look at this
2020-12-28T10:38:29 < ColdKeyboard> Hate to reset the entire bus every time this happens :\
2020-12-28T10:38:56 < ColdKeyboard> BTW can you read the level of SCL/SDA pins while they are configured as AF (i2c) ?
2020-12-28T10:39:25 < dongs> yes of course
2020-12-28T10:39:32 < dongs> you don't 'reset bus'
2020-12-28T10:39:41 < dongs> you just let stuck i2c slaves get back to normal state
2020-12-28T10:41:39 < ColdKeyboard> dongs It's not the slaves that are stuck, that's the thing. I'm 99% sure it's STM.
2020-12-28T10:42:05 < ColdKeyboard> Disconnecting slaves and reconnecting doesn't fix it. Power cycling slaves, doesn't help. Resetting STM32 (no power-cycle) solves the isue
2020-12-28T10:42:30 < ColdKeyboard> I guess I'll just read the SDA+SCL, if any of those are low, reset the bus (since there is only one master)
2020-12-28T10:42:39 < dongs> no its 100% the slaves
2020-12-28T10:42:47 < dongs> if SDA is stuck low, its the slaves
2020-12-28T10:42:55 < dongs> happens when you do this shit and breakpoint/debug somewheer in i2c code
2020-12-28T10:42:57 < dongs> and shit gets confused
2020-12-28T10:43:13 < ColdKeyboard> I'll scope it again. Last time it was SCL that was low
2020-12-28T10:43:40 < mawk> I did some malloc tests Streaker 
2020-12-28T10:43:43 < mawk> steff
2020-12-28T10:43:43 < ColdKeyboard> but a good point. I'll dig a bit deeper and confirm which side is messing up
2020-12-28T10:43:44 < mawk> where is he
2020-12-28T10:43:46 < mawk> :'(
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2020-12-28T12:24:03 < antto> mawk, yes, i can't not listen to it
2020-12-28T12:24:11 < antto> <BrainDamage> subpixel hinting exists because monitors still don't have enough pixel density to trick the eye
2020-12-28T12:24:14 < antto> ^ no
2020-12-28T12:25:36 < antto> subpixel sh*t exists because displays began to use a rectangular grid of adjacent RGB "pixels"
2020-12-28T12:26:10 < antto> was there subpixel sh*t when it was hex grid dots? no
2020-12-28T12:30:59 < qyx> I would say it is not gonna fit https://bin.jvnv.net/file/pkRTC.JPG
2020-12-28T12:37:10 < karlp> fucking connectors, always ruining a good plan...
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2020-12-28T13:07:29 < BrainDamage> antto: you can do subpixel hinting even with hex grid dots ...
2020-12-28T13:08:00 < antto> yes, you can, you can as well do anything
2020-12-28T13:08:07 < antto> but it'd be wrong
2020-12-28T13:09:09 < BrainDamage> no, it wouln't, you'd just gain approx 2/3 of the resolution of linear rectangular in one direction
2020-12-28T13:09:28 < antto> bruh
2020-12-28T13:09:38 < antto> you don't gain resolution with this subpixel sh*t
2020-12-28T13:09:41 < BrainDamage> and if anything, it'd work better because it'd be more uniform, since you'd gain it in vertical too
2020-12-28T13:09:59 < BrainDamage> yes you do, you exchange colour aberration for resolution
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2020-12-28T13:10:20 < antto> this sh*t really only makes sense for grayscale sh*t
2020-12-28T13:10:37 < antto> a fancy tweak
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2020-12-28T13:11:02 < BrainDamage> ... what do you think text is 90% of the times?
2020-12-28T13:11:13 < antto> it doesn't matter
2020-12-28T13:11:34 < antto> what matters is that it's 2020 and we still are doing displays the wrong way
2020-12-28T13:12:51 < antto> CRT were kinda wrong, specifically the monitors with the hex grid at least could display multiple resolutions
2020-12-28T13:13:06 < antto> they're old technology, difficult, okay
2020-12-28T13:13:24 < antto> then some new sh*t came up and it looked more wrong than the CRT
2020-12-28T13:13:26 < antto> dafuq?
2020-12-28T13:14:07 < BrainDamage> you can have hex pixels in lcd, you'd just have less resolution
2020-12-28T13:14:17 < BrainDamage> because it packs worse with the wires
2020-12-28T13:14:52 < BrainDamage> so you're exchanging one problem with another
2020-12-28T13:14:56 < antto> and years later, instead of getting it less wrong (and less wrong than CRT), we're instead hiding the wrong'ness by turning the DPI up so u can't see it
2020-12-28T13:15:25 < BrainDamage> ...
2020-12-28T13:15:32 < BrainDamage> that statement makes no sense
2020-12-28T13:15:48 < BrainDamage> displays have been wrong since always because the dpi was insufficient
2020-12-28T13:15:54 < antto> no
2020-12-28T13:16:01 < antto> i don't care about dpi
2020-12-28T13:16:05 < BrainDamage> we've been always trying to hide te wrongness by increasing the dpi
2020-12-28T13:16:12 < antto> no
2020-12-28T13:17:05 < antto> BrainDamage, how do you turn a digital signal into analog(ue) ?
2020-12-28T13:17:34 < BrainDamage> you sample it, the sampling doesn't have to be uniform
2020-12-28T13:17:55 < BrainDamage> in fact, EXACTLY because the sampling is uniform, that aliasing exists
2020-12-28T13:17:58 < antto> wut
2020-12-28T13:18:11 < BrainDamage> oh, nvm, you said DAC
2020-12-28T13:18:15 < BrainDamage> read ADC
2020-12-28T13:18:41 < antto> i'm probably the most uneducated idiot here, but i know some nyquist-shannon stuff
2020-12-28T13:18:42 < BrainDamage> the answer is, you convert the word to an analogue value and lowpass
2020-12-28T13:18:53 < antto> there we go
2020-12-28T13:18:55 < antto> lowpass
2020-12-28T13:19:04 < antto> aka a reconstruction filter
2020-12-28T13:19:27 < antto> this sh*t doesn't exist on modern displays.. at all
2020-12-28T13:19:28 < antto> wtf?
2020-12-28T13:19:49 < BrainDamage> a zero-order hold is still a filter
2020-12-28T13:19:55 < antto> the pixel shapes are also wrong thus you cannot use the blurryness of the eyeball for a free reconstruction filter
2020-12-28T13:20:16  * antto puts on his NYQUIST-POLICE uniform
2020-12-28T13:20:24 < BrainDamage> and there's a lowpass from the RC constant of the mosfet gates
2020-12-28T13:20:28 < antto> BrainDamage, freeze, u r under arrest
2020-12-28T13:20:57 < antto> pls, that's -6dB lowpass
2020-12-28T13:21:21 < BrainDamage> ... so?
2020-12-28T13:21:35 < BrainDamage> also, not -6dB
2020-12-28T13:21:44 < BrainDamage> it's -20dB/decade
2020-12-28T13:21:45 < antto> -6dB/Oct
2020-12-28T13:21:50 < antto> wutever
2020-12-28T13:22:53 < BrainDamage> for one, monitors temporal sampling is not uniform
2020-12-28T13:23:11 < BrainDamage> because the  local transient is not static
2020-12-28T13:24:03 < BrainDamage> look at videogames, when you dont' use vsync, you're generating a crapton of frames, and get 1 every n
2020-12-28T13:24:21 < BrainDamage> you're random sampling a much higher signal
2020-12-28T13:25:07 < BrainDamage> the moment you're not using uniform sampling, nyquist therem doesn't apply
2020-12-28T13:25:37 < BrainDamage> and the framerate of the source material is not constant
2020-12-28T13:25:46 < antto> uh, i'm not talking about games here, nor animation
2020-12-28T13:26:07 < antto> i'm talking about basic displaying of a 2D color image
2020-12-28T13:26:22 < BrainDamage> then nyquist frequency is 0
2020-12-28T13:26:29 < antto> wut
2020-12-28T13:26:44 < BrainDamage> it's static in time
2020-12-28T13:26:51 < BrainDamage> you only have spatial sampling
2020-12-28T13:26:57 < antto> forget time
2020-12-28T13:27:01 < BrainDamage> you don't need temporal lowpass
2020-12-28T13:27:04 < BrainDamage> only spatial
2020-12-28T13:27:34 < antto> if you're talking about how to display animation/video properly - i'm not
2020-12-28T13:27:49 < antto> you need to first be able to display a static 2D image properly
2020-12-28T13:28:22 < antto> and we still don't have that in 2020
2020-12-28T13:29:02 < antto> you don't put the pan on the fire when you haven't cought the fish yet
2020-12-28T13:29:21 < BrainDamage> I don't need phylosophy, I need an argument
2020-12-28T13:30:39 < antto> if font rendering looks good on a "wrong" monitor, that means the algorithm compensates for the wrongness of that monitor, which means it is wrong
2020-12-28T13:30:43 < BrainDamage> if anything, on horizontal resolution, the individual pixel, being thinner, benefits MORE from eye blurriness
2020-12-28T13:31:02 < BrainDamage> they have been doing it since always
2020-12-28T13:31:11 < BrainDamage> because monitor resolutions are insufficient
2020-12-28T13:31:19 < antto> no
2020-12-28T13:31:23 < BrainDamage> and same applies to monitor framerates
2020-12-28T13:31:29 < BrainDamage> yes
2020-12-28T13:32:07 < antto> you don't need framerate sh*t do display a static image bruh
2020-12-28T13:32:15 < antto> stop talking about that aspect
2020-12-28T13:32:27 < BrainDamage> I feel like I'm talking to a brick
2020-12-28T13:32:48 < BrainDamage> or someeone who reads extremely selectiveely
2020-12-28T13:33:09 < antto> <both.gif>
2020-12-28T13:33:26 < BrainDamage> I only mentioned that temporal resolution is undersampled too, and you jumped on it
2020-12-28T13:34:11 < BrainDamage> in the meantime, you still haven't elaborate your argument more than "rectangular subpixels are wrong because of eye blurriness"
2020-12-28T13:34:35 < antto> wut, that's not what i'm saying at all
2020-12-28T13:34:39 < BrainDamage> which is the only real argumeent you've pushed on in several pages of text
2020-12-28T13:34:50 < antto> how do you resample a digital signal?
2020-12-28T13:35:11 < antto> sinc(), impulses
2020-12-28T13:35:21 < antto> ^ ideally
2020-12-28T13:35:45 < antto> a thicc rectangle is kinda thicc
2020-12-28T13:36:38 < antto> if you zero-order hold the signal, this sh*t adds aliasing
2020-12-28T13:37:01 < BrainDamage> we're talking about spatial sincs tho
2020-12-28T13:37:54 < antto> okay this is a similar thing as when you scale up a small digital image
2020-12-28T13:38:27 < BrainDamage> a rectangle is an excellent approximation of the main lobe of a sinc ... in one direction
2020-12-28T13:38:35 < BrainDamage> and shit in another
2020-12-28T13:38:46 < antto> o_O
2020-12-28T13:38:50 < antto> i'm out of here
2020-12-28T13:39:28 < BrainDamage> err, sorry, of an inpulse
2020-12-28T13:39:35 < BrainDamage> the rectangles are the impulses
2020-12-28T13:39:47 < antto> yes, except, they are f*cking too thicc
2020-12-28T13:40:03 < antto> they look more like zero order hold
2020-12-28T13:40:54 < antto> see, when you're gonna resample a signal to 2x the original rate, you introduce zero samples between the original samples before you toss that into the filter
2020-12-28T13:41:14 < antto> when you resample to 4x, you insert 3 zeros after each original sample
2020-12-28T13:41:21 < BrainDamage> every dac in the world does 0 order hold
2020-12-28T13:41:25 < antto> thus your impulse becomes relatively thinner
2020-12-28T13:41:41 < antto> forget what every dac in the world does for a moment
2020-12-28T13:42:44 < antto> and i bet you were thinking about like an audio DAC here
2020-12-28T13:42:46 < antto> don't
2020-12-28T13:43:09 < BrainDamage> no, every dac, not just audio
2020-12-28T13:43:25 < antto> okay, a DAC that has "time" as one of its axis
2020-12-28T13:43:44 < antto> anyway
2020-12-28T13:45:01 < BrainDamage> you want the subpixels even thinner, and with some gaps between them?
2020-12-28T13:45:05 < antto> anyway, the point is, if you zero-hold the sh*t before the reconstruction signal, this introduced aliasing and it's wrong
2020-12-28T13:45:24 < antto> * reconstruction filter
2020-12-28T13:45:36 < BrainDamage> because that doesn't work due tto how optics work
2020-12-28T13:46:47 < antto> lemme find some random pictures from teh internetz perhaps
2020-12-28T13:48:47 < antto> https://fthmb.tqn.com/OrgseLQRI9KpvAuUkKcW11CV0tI=/768x0/filters:no_upscale()/LCD-TV-pixels-wc-pd-bbb-590a1c7f3df78c928303b33f.jpg
2020-12-28T13:50:11 < antto> let's ignore that there's some smol black rectangle and some extra black line there and pretend it's a "nice" rectangle" of color
2020-12-28T13:50:21 < antto> there are still a few problems
2020-12-28T13:51:47 < antto> ..if it really looks like that, then there's no optical lowpass filter
2020-12-28T13:53:03 < antto> you could say "we gonna use the eye to blur that sh*t, that's gonna be our natural lowpass filter" <- okay, but the shapes are wrong
2020-12-28T13:53:48 < antto> specifically in the Y axis, there's almost no black between the pixels
2020-12-28T13:54:03 < antto> horizontally it's slightly better, something close to 1/3
2020-12-28T13:55:45 < BrainDamage> there's quite a bit additional problem here
2020-12-28T13:55:45 < antto> to make a font rendering look good on this sh*t, you'd kinda need to toss what resampling sh*t says and write a custom algo that takes into account this horrific sh*t and compensates
2020-12-28T13:56:09 < BrainDamage> you're looking aat the structure of the pixels, not at the structure of the light emitted
2020-12-28T13:56:10 < antto> which means that this algorithm produces *incorrect* digital images of fonts in the digital domain
2020-12-28T13:56:53 < antto> which means that, 100 years from today, someone gonna have a perfect image display monitor, and dig out all your ancient screenshots, and all the text is gonna look wrong
2020-12-28T13:57:10 < BrainDamage> because what matters is the light emitted, not the pixel shape per se
2020-12-28T13:57:16 < antto> yes
2020-12-28T13:57:22 < antto> i think i said "if" somewhere
2020-12-28T13:57:38 < antto> <antto> ..if it really looks like that, then there's no optical lowpass filter
2020-12-28T13:58:25 < BrainDamage> diffraction of the pixel in fact makes it emit the fourier transform of the slit
2020-12-28T13:58:44 < antto> can you "fix" a display with pixels that look like that, via adding a very fancy optical lowpass filter? i don't know, maybe? there's fresnell sh*t
2020-12-28T13:59:25 < antto> do they put optical lowpass filters?
2020-12-28T13:59:26 < BrainDamage> so it makes it emit a sinc
2020-12-28T14:00:03 < antto> wut diffraction? where does it come from?
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2020-12-28T14:00:27 < BrainDamage> an optical lowpass filter is a blurring filter
2020-12-28T14:00:30 < BrainDamage> anything that diffuses light
2020-12-28T14:00:31 < BrainDamage> even a piece of glass diffuses ligt
2020-12-28T14:00:34 < qyx> a screenshot for antto https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bIvxv/Screenshot_2020-12-28_12-58-27.png
2020-12-28T14:00:49 < BrainDamage> the diffraction comes from the own pixels
2020-12-28T14:01:00 < BrainDamage> it's an aperture emitting light
2020-12-28T14:01:22 < BrainDamage> the beam doesn't come out in a straight line
2020-12-28T14:01:28 < antto> beam?
2020-12-28T14:01:54 < BrainDamage> the light spatial intensiity profile 
2020-12-28T14:02:12 < antto> okay
2020-12-28T14:02:33 < qyx> I even started gimp for you to see it better
2020-12-28T14:02:38 < antto> yes, an optical lowpass would blur things
2020-12-28T14:02:42 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2020-12-28T14:02:45 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0mvEXp9f2Y  this is just sooooo epically cool
2020-12-28T14:02:53 < BrainDamage> a thin slit does not genrate a thin slit light
2020-12-28T14:03:16 < BrainDamage> in fact, a thin slight makes for a larger light spread
2020-12-28T14:03:33 < antto> uhm
2020-12-28T14:03:44 < antto> i need coffee
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2020-12-28T14:06:14 < BrainDamage> I know it's counterintuitive, but it's one of the extremely unfortunate things of diffraction
2020-12-28T14:21:18 < antto> i don't think you want light spread, if it's what i think it is
2020-12-28T14:23:19 < antto> anyway, the other problem with subpixel sh*t is that, via using this, you are essentially generating "wrong" digital images, which can only look not-very-wrong on a specific display
2020-12-28T14:24:09 < antto> any further processing of those images will be doing "wtf", any viewing of those images on a different display will look wrong, viewing them on an ideal display would also look wrong
2020-12-28T14:24:19 < antto> this sh*t needs to stop basically
2020-12-28T14:24:32 < antto> unfortunately we're pretty deep in this sh*t already
2020-12-28T14:31:01 < mawk> where is steffie
2020-12-28T14:31:44 < jpa-> with 120dpi display, i haven't seen much improvement from subpixel antialiasing
2020-12-28T14:31:56 < jpa-> so i'm just using grayscale antialiasing to get nicer looking screenshots etc.
2020-12-28T14:32:26 < antto> i use no hinting, no subpixel sh*t
2020-12-28T14:32:37 < jpa-> why no hinting?
2020-12-28T14:32:52 < dongs> he loves looking at disgusting lunix fonts
2020-12-28T14:32:58 < antto> no
2020-12-28T14:33:08 < antto> you know wut hinting is?
2020-12-28T14:33:12 < dongs> yeah
2020-12-28T14:33:18 < dongs> its for making shit look legible at small sizes
2020-12-28T14:33:25 < dongs> so the fonts dont look like ass
2020-12-28T14:33:39 < antto> pls
2020-12-28T14:33:44 < qyx> it is for making ttf look more like old bitmap fonts 
2020-12-28T14:34:11 < dongs> https://www.binarytides.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/linux-mint-font-settings.png lmao
2020-12-28T14:34:14 < dongs> fucking awful
2020-12-28T14:34:32 < antto> from the discussion above, you should have learnt your display is what looks like a$$, not the font rendering
2020-12-28T14:34:47 < dongs> nigga prolly still using some TN panel from 1996
2020-12-28T14:34:49 < dongs> amirite?
2020-12-28T14:34:58 < dongs> TN + ccfl backlight
2020-12-28T14:36:59 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@48.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T14:37:10 < zyp> sup
2020-12-28T14:37:19 < Laurenceb> hello all
2020-12-28T14:37:31 < antto> pls
2020-12-28T14:37:38 < antto> dell u2413a
2020-12-28T14:37:44 < BrainDamage> I did say that my 900DPI limit was for the eye's pupil diffraction, maybe we're "lucky" that the resolution is further limited by the cone density or brain processing
2020-12-28T14:39:36 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@aftr-62-216-202-22.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2020-12-28T14:42:31 < antto> qyx, yes, it's for making vector fonts morph into something that closer looks like monochrome fonts, to reduce the requirement of antialiasing
2020-12-28T14:42:36 < jpa-> BrainDamage: for 0.5 meter distance and 6/6 visual acuity 170 dpi would be the limit
2020-12-28T14:43:18 < antto> * raster fonts, not monochrome
2020-12-28T14:44:26 < antto> if you take a photo of a page of text, and you view this on your monitor, there's no f*cking hinting
2020-12-28T14:44:38 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T14:44:46 < antto> i wonder how does senpai deal with that.. oh noes /o\
2020-12-28T14:45:24 < antto> dongs, if you print stuff to a printer, would u like to have hinting on the text there too?
2020-12-28T14:45:32 < jpa-> ...
2020-12-28T14:45:47 < antto> it makes no sense, but who knows wut senpai gon say
2020-12-28T14:46:03 < antto> something beginning with "nig" maybe
2020-12-28T14:48:16 < Steffanx> Welcome back all
2020-12-28T14:48:34 < antto> no, u
2020-12-28T14:48:42 < antto> we didn't go anywhere
2020-12-28T14:51:45 < BrainDamage> 40cm snow
2020-12-28T14:52:05 < BrainDamage> I'm almost glad of the quarantine
2020-12-28T14:52:22 < antto> still no snow here, hot wind and rain instead
2020-12-28T14:52:35 < qyx> same here
2020-12-28T14:52:46 < qyx> it was -5°C during the night though
2020-12-28T14:53:30 < antto> !wc BG/varna
2020-12-28T14:53:40 < antto> hm, wot woz teh command
2020-12-28T14:56:50 < dongs> nicecar
2020-12-28T14:57:25 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-12-28T15:06:35 < Steffanx> englishman killed his bot antto
2020-12-28T15:06:41 < Steffanx> Years ago
2020-12-28T15:06:47 < antto> wut
2020-12-28T15:06:54 < Steffanx> !wz antto
2020-12-28T15:07:06 < qyx> fuk the kicad got 500% worse with 5.1.8
2020-12-28T15:07:20 < antto> qyx, how so?
2020-12-28T15:07:21 < qyx> the symbol editor segfaults in every possible occassion
2020-12-28T15:07:28 < qyx> moving a ping
2020-12-28T15:07:31 < qyx> removing a symbol
2020-12-28T15:07:33 < qyx> removing alias
2020-12-28T15:07:40 < qyx> selecting
2020-12-28T15:07:54 < antto> wut OS?
2020-12-28T15:08:08 < qyx> I am not even able to draw a fuking optocoupler
2020-12-28T15:08:26 < qyx> debian
2020-12-28T15:09:10 < antto> i'm still on 5.1.7 coz i'm butchering-together a board
2020-12-28T15:10:37 < qyx> https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/4471
2020-12-28T15:10:57 < qyx> looks like it is even in 5.1.6
2020-12-28T15:11:45 < antto> huh, i haven't had kicad crash since 5.1.5 even
2020-12-28T15:12:41 < qyx> linux?
2020-12-28T15:12:47 < antto> debian stable
2020-12-28T15:12:57 < antto> kicad from backports
2020-12-28T15:13:01 < qyx> I did not on debian stable
2020-12-28T15:13:12 < antto> both here and at $job
2020-12-28T15:13:18 < qyx> can you check your wxWidgets version?
2020-12-28T15:13:28 < qyx> help > about > version info
2020-12-28T15:14:42 < antto> the wx version kicad prints in the dialog(ue), or the actual wx version from the wx code? (i can check that too)
2020-12-28T15:15:16 < qyx> from the kicad
2020-12-28T15:18:37 < antto> 3.0.4
2020-12-28T15:18:47 < antto> runtime version is 3.24
2020-12-28T15:19:14 < antto> hm, that might be the GTK+ version akchually
2020-12-28T15:19:37 < qyx> thats the gtk version
2020-12-28T15:19:48 < qyx> I have wx at 3.0.5 and thats probably the root
2020-12-28T15:20:29 < antto> iirc odd versions of wx were less stable ;P~
2020-12-28T15:22:23 < antto> ah you're on debian next?
2020-12-28T15:24:56 < qyx> yes testing
2020-12-28T15:32:01  * qyx just spent 10 minutes figuring out the current flow direction of a photodiode
2020-12-28T15:33:35 < antto> it's "forward" ;P~
2020-12-28T15:34:17 < BrainDamage> if you use it in photovoltaic mode, it gets even more confusing
2020-12-28T15:34:32 < BrainDamage> because you have the current gen backwards, and the diode forward
2020-12-28T15:34:40 < qyx> yes, in the pv mode
2020-12-28T15:34:48 < qyx> so anode is more positive
2020-12-28T15:35:09 < antto> senpai is always more negative
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2020-12-28T15:36:00 -!- Steffanx [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2020-12-28T15:40:42 < qyx> haha our parliament extended the emergency behind a PE foil
2020-12-28T15:41:05 < qyx> to allow positive members to vote
2020-12-28T15:41:10 < BrainDamage> PE?
2020-12-28T15:41:18 < qyx> polyethylene
2020-12-28T15:41:49 < qyx> otherwise there wouldn't be enough members because of quarantines
2020-12-28T15:59:41 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T16:12:53 -!- Laurenceb_ [2ed0b130@48.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T16:13:06 < Laurenceb_> hypeberry and beaglebone utterly btfo'd
2020-12-28T16:13:10 < Laurenceb_> https://olimex.wordpress.com/2020/05/20/open-source-hardware-industrial-linux-computers-stmp1-olinuxino-lime2-prototypes-are-ready-for-testing/
2020-12-28T16:13:23 < Laurenceb_> the ST documentation is amazing, actual pro lunix documentation
2020-12-28T16:13:30 < Laurenceb_> openamp looks good
2020-12-28T16:15:24 < Laurenceb_> even has RTC and battery management, almost like its designed properly
2020-12-28T16:16:06 < BrainDamage> the screw terminal for an looks a bit silly
2020-12-28T16:16:17 < BrainDamage> can*
2020-12-28T16:16:52 < Laurenceb_> yeah olimex are always a bit spaccy
2020-12-28T16:17:45 < Laurenceb_> but still, raspberry has no rtc or battery management, and beaglebone still has broken rtc and battery interface, and poorly documented/useless coprocessor
2020-12-28T16:18:18 < BrainDamage> rpi also has a giant nightmare of drivers
2020-12-28T16:18:19 < Laurenceb_> the st documentation for the m4 coprocessor actually exists, amazing
2020-12-28T16:18:24 < BrainDamage> and no real 64 bit support
2020-12-28T16:19:02 < BrainDamage> ... is that a miniusb in the bottom left corner?
2020-12-28T16:19:19 < Laurenceb_> yeah, maybe device or use charge?
2020-12-28T16:19:23 < Laurenceb_> *usb charge
2020-12-28T16:20:39 < qyx> mini?
2020-12-28T16:20:49 < Laurenceb_> https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/Linux_remoteproc_framework_overview
2020-12-28T16:21:33 < qyx> who the hell uses usb mini-b in 2020
2020-12-28T16:22:04 < Laurenceb_> someone who wants a reliable connector
2020-12-28T16:22:16 < Laurenceb_> thats not flimsy
2020-12-28T16:22:24 < Laurenceb_> but USB-C is prob better now
2020-12-28T16:24:33 < qyx> mini-b was always unerliable for me
2020-12-28T16:25:06 < BrainDamage> mini-b wears the female more than the male
2020-12-28T16:25:20 < BrainDamage> I have a few boards where I had to replace the socket
2020-12-28T16:25:52 < BrainDamage> the problem of micro is that the mating force is often absurd, so you rip out the female
2020-12-28T16:27:22 < BrainDamage> for some reason mini-b is still somewhat used in dev boards
2020-12-28T16:27:50 < BrainDamage> I have a debugger from TI that was designe a couple of years ago, and still has mini
2020-12-28T16:29:42 < fenugrec> at least some stm32disco boards have 2x mini. everybody has a mini cable lying around
2020-12-28T16:31:05 < fenugrec> in general miniusb tends to have more metal soldered to the pcb, should be mechanically more robust but I've never ripped off either kind of connector. microusb on cell phones do seem to fail pretty fast IME
2020-12-28T16:31:45 < antto> Laurenceb_, "btfo" ?
2020-12-28T16:45:21 < qyx> hm phoenix contact offer vrml/step models of their things
2020-12-28T16:46:54 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T16:49:42 < englishman> the only people using mini-b in 2020 are people using kicad because it's such a pain to make a new footprint
2020-12-28T16:50:23 < Laurenceb_> lol
2020-12-28T16:50:24 < englishman> also knowing olimex it'll be $180
2020-12-28T16:50:39 < Laurenceb_> their prices seem ok
2020-12-28T16:51:10 < Laurenceb_> I'd rather have usb-c, but failing that I'd take mini-b over micro-b
2020-12-28T16:52:27 < antto> dafuq(ue) englishman
2020-12-28T16:54:47 < qyx> fuk you englishman
2020-12-28T16:54:48 < qyx> sry
2020-12-28T16:55:50 < Laurenceb_> lol
2020-12-28T16:56:34 < Thorn> how do I name a module containing event handlers that run in the main thread? like ardweeno loop() but pro
2020-12-28T16:56:40 < Thorn> it contains all the high level app functionality
2020-12-28T16:57:07 < Thorn> I normally call these things 'app' but it's a reserved name in the Nordick SDK
2020-12-28T16:58:00 < antto> currently running app - crapp
2020-12-28T16:58:11 < antto> pro_loop()
2020-12-28T16:59:40 < benishor> business
2020-12-28T17:00:08 < benishor> because that's what it contains: high level app business logic
2020-12-28T17:01:46 < BrainDamage> bureaucracy
2020-12-28T17:23:01 < dongs> < englishman> the only people using mini-b in 2020 are people using kicad because it's such a pain to make a new footprint
2020-12-28T17:23:03 < dongs> fucking LOL'd
2020-12-28T17:23:31 < antto> how dare u
2020-12-28T17:23:42 < dongs> he's right and you fucking know it
2020-12-28T17:23:50 < antto> he so wrong
2020-12-28T17:23:52 < dongs> you spend 30 mins looking for a kikecad footprint somewehre on shithub
2020-12-28T17:23:52 < antto> SO wrong
2020-12-28T17:23:57 < dongs> where in altium you can make one in 5 mins
2020-12-28T17:23:58 < dongs> and done
2020-12-28T17:24:00 < antto> bruh
2020-12-28T17:24:17 < antto> yeah, ur wrong too
2020-12-28T17:25:22 < antto> ya don't search for a footprint on teh internetz, if it's not in the stock lib - you make a footprint urself as usual
2020-12-28T17:25:44 < dongs> https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/2002271811_XKB-Connectivity-U262-161N-4BVC11_C319148.pdf ok lets see you draw this
2020-12-28T17:25:53 < dongs> in kikecad
2020-12-28T17:26:09 < antto> what's so difficult about this one?
2020-12-28T17:26:20 < dongs> nothing, thats the point
2020-12-28T17:26:25 < antto> so?
2020-12-28T17:26:35 < dongs> how many hours will it take in kikecad
2020-12-28T17:26:35 < englishman> best usbC that one
2020-12-28T17:26:42 < dongs> yeah, its a standard one
2020-12-28T17:26:44 < dongs> lots of chinesium clones
2020-12-28T17:26:48 < antto> hours?
2020-12-28T17:28:23 < antto> i have a similar font here: https://i.imgur.com/uhN6ItY.jpg
2020-12-28T17:28:31 < antto> less pins
2020-12-28T17:28:50 < dongs> thats... micro B
2020-12-28T17:29:12 < antto> yeah, well i see the same kind of features.. THT slots, SMD pads
2020-12-28T17:29:16 < antto> nothing uber fancy
2020-12-28T17:29:20 < dongs> you didnt draw that one tho
2020-12-28T17:29:24 < dongs> thats in kikecad lib
2020-12-28T17:29:29 < antto> bruh
2020-12-28T17:29:30 < dongs> cuz its the standard chinesium micro-b
2020-12-28T17:29:42 < antto> it's my own
2020-12-28T17:30:33 < antto> moa2:USB_MicroB_Amphenol_10118194-000xLF
2020-12-28T17:30:42 < antto> mine
2020-12-28T17:30:50 < antto> MINE
2020-12-28T17:32:01 < antto> the ones in the kicad lib then were all fully SMD
2020-12-28T17:32:39 < antto> while the connector i could buy (cheapest one) was the amphenol one, with THT mounting plate things
2020-12-28T17:35:07 < antto> i've even made simplified Fab drawing on it: https://i.imgur.com/NOxdyic.png
2020-12-28T17:35:28 < antto> didn't bother for the Keystone RCA jack tho
2020-12-28T17:36:40 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/4Wt7qG6.png
2020-12-28T17:36:47 < antto> "oops" wrong pic
2020-12-28T17:37:57 < dongs> lul
2020-12-28T17:38:04 < antto> dongs, bruh i'm even next level, i often make combo footprints that accept multiple "similar" components
2020-12-28T17:38:12 < antto> that's more difficult
2020-12-28T17:38:26 < antto> coz i'm ghetto
2020-12-28T17:38:59 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/nuQICXD.jpg
2020-12-28T17:40:31 < antto> DIN5 is mine, accepts a few differend parts, audio jack is mine, accepts a pile of different models, potentiometer is mine, accepts 2 types of common potentiometers, barrel jack is mine, trimpot is mine
2020-12-28T17:40:57 < antto> oh, the slideswitch also
2020-12-28T17:41:27 < dongs> the fuck is going on with thermals in top right at the barrel jack
2020-12-28T17:42:00 < dongs> does kikecad not have per-footprint-per-pad thermal override
2020-12-28T17:42:00 < antto> eh?
2020-12-28T17:42:07 < antto> it has
2020-12-28T17:42:15 < antto> both
2020-12-28T17:42:21 < antto> i didn't bother
2020-12-28T17:49:23 < Mangy_Dog> procrastration is strong in me today D:, ive been making very tiny little fixes but no real actual work on my tricorder code
2020-12-28T17:49:41 < antto> wutcorder?
2020-12-28T17:49:51 < Mangy_Dog> the project ive been working on
2020-12-28T17:49:52 < Laurenceb_> sounds like a meme
2020-12-28T17:50:14 < antto> loirens, ur heavily biased
2020-12-28T17:50:14 < Laurenceb_> make a bluetooth enable e-stim buttplug
2020-12-28T17:50:15 < Mangy_Dog> the thing thats currently 57KB of compiled code
2020-12-28T17:50:25 < Laurenceb_> its the only way to make a profit
2020-12-28T17:50:41 < Laurenceb_> heh same size as crapillary
2020-12-28T17:51:53 < Laurenceb_> chaturbate discovered you cant get bluetooth reception  inside  a hole
2020-12-28T17:52:12 < Laurenceb_> so they have ugly sticking out antenna bits
2020-12-28T17:52:30 < antto> i need translation
2020-12-28T17:52:42 < antto> from loirensish to engrish
2020-12-28T17:53:08 < Laurenceb_> go to chaturbate and take a look at the pink plastic things
2020-12-28T17:53:19 < Laurenceb_> then make an improved version with stm32
2020-12-28T17:53:23 < Laurenceb_> profit
2020-12-28T17:53:29 < antto> dafuq is that
2020-12-28T17:53:34 < Laurenceb_> lmao
2020-12-28T17:53:41 < Laurenceb_> I'm 12 years old and what is this
2020-12-28T17:54:28 < mawk> lol
2020-12-28T17:54:38 < mawk> did they try nrf Laurenceb_ ?
2020-12-28T17:54:55 < Laurenceb_> the bluetooth buttplug market is fragmented, we clearly need an iphone of bluetooth buttplugs
2020-12-28T17:54:58 < mawk> I heard nrf is pretty popular inside holes
2020-12-28T17:55:05 < antto> if u wanna make profit go on pootube and become an inflewens0r
2020-12-28T17:55:12 < Laurenceb_> internet of buttplugs
2020-12-28T17:55:27 < mawk> supplier "holy iot" on ali says the prime target of its modules is "smart sexy vibrator"
2020-12-28T17:55:34 < mawk> I still have the business card with that
2020-12-28T17:55:36 < Laurenceb_> lmfao
2020-12-28T17:55:57 < antto> okay, NSFW this sh*t
2020-12-28T17:56:09 < Laurenceb_> lol
2020-12-28T17:56:25 < Laurenceb_> get Belle Delphine to put her name on it maybe
2020-12-28T17:56:48 < mawk> lol
2020-12-28T17:57:14 < antto> can't you think of something different that doesn't involve butts and eye-oh-tea
2020-12-28T17:57:31 < antto> and blewtewth
2020-12-28T17:58:32 < antto> <crickets.wav>
2020-12-28T18:00:04 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:6650:243a:958d:de12:2827] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-28T18:28:52 < antto> oh, i almost forgot another detail about why subpixel sh*t is wrong
2020-12-28T18:29:51 < antto> "The input-to-output mapping thus can be expressed as a family of nine linear filters derived from an optimization problem: one for each combination of input color and output color. The coefficients of these nine filters depend on the human visual model and on the pattern of sub-pixel colors."
2020-12-28T18:30:00 < antto> ^ M$ cleartype bullsh*t
2020-12-28T18:30:42 < antto> the percepted luminance of r g and b is all different
2020-12-28T18:31:09 < antto> so this whole idea of subpixel anything goes in the trash just because of this alone
2020-12-28T18:31:30 < antto> BrainDamage ^
2020-12-28T18:35:10 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-125-126.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-12-28T18:38:06 < qyx> you should put the covid vaccine in the trash because it is not 100% efficient
2020-12-28T18:38:49  * Laurenceb_ found a race condition on noaa server
2020-12-28T18:39:06 < Laurenceb_> you can download logfiles before they are fully loaded onto the server
2020-12-28T18:39:41 < Laurenceb_> about 1 in 5k files has the end missing 
2020-12-28T18:39:54 < antto> qyx, u compare the vaccine with subpixel sh*t? grate, our prime minister today compared it to the building thermal isolation program
2020-12-28T18:40:06 < Laurenceb_> dynamic ip ftw
2020-12-28T18:40:17  * Laurenceb_ has been ip b& 17 times so far
2020-12-28T18:43:03 < Laurenceb_> good jerb its holiday time or I bet their it guy would write a script to autoban me lmao
2020-12-28T18:43:35 < antto> u h4x0r
2020-12-28T18:44:07  * Laurenceb_ has made 35k hysplit requests so far
2020-12-28T18:44:48 < Laurenceb_> lol I'm single handedly responsible for >95% of all server load over the last week
2020-12-28T18:46:17 < Laurenceb_> I found a way to make http post requests that would cause the server to eat all its ram and die 
2020-12-28T18:46:36 < Laurenceb_> that one got me ip b& straight away, so maybe there is an it guy there
2020-12-28T18:46:56 < antto> his name is Habib Karma
2020-12-28T18:47:04 < Laurenceb_> lol
2020-12-28T18:49:24 < specing>  Laurenceb_ | so they have ugly sticking out antenna bits
2020-12-28T18:49:26 < specing> lmao
2020-12-28T18:49:32 < specing> make it a furry tail and get $ich
2020-12-28T18:50:39 < Laurenceb_> heh
2020-12-28T18:52:02 < specing> Seriously, why don't they do this
2020-12-28T18:52:10 < specing> women sure love wearing cat ears
2020-12-28T18:52:18 < specing> why not the rest of the custome
2020-12-28T18:52:31 < Laurenceb_> impossible to clean
2020-12-28T18:53:08 < specing> there's no smell on video
2020-12-28T18:54:42 < Laurenceb_> interesting finding: stratospheric wind rotates 5+-1 times clockwise per year
2020-12-28T18:54:51 < Laurenceb_> very consistently over summer
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2020-12-28T19:36:09 < Laurenceb_> https://uk.banggood.com/STM32MP157C-Evaluation-Board-40-Pin-Compatible-with-SoM-Arm-Cortex-A7-plus-Cortex-M-p-1715138.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_organic&gmcCountry=GB&utm_content=minha&utm_campaign=minha-gbg-en-pc&currency=GBP&cur_warehouse=CN&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgcs&utm_content=sxxx&utm_campaign
2020-12-28T19:36:10 < Laurenceb_> =ssc-gbg-all-0218&ad_id=332556156911&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIka_pqprx7QIVsuHmCh07vgqxEAQYByABEgIPEvD_BwE
2020-12-28T19:41:57 < BrainDamage> long url is long
2020-12-28T19:42:37 < BrainDamage> the best part is that the uuid with tracking info got cut out
2020-12-28T19:44:04 < aandrew> $112 for a STM32MP1 eval board, no thanks
2020-12-28T19:45:00 < aandrew> 512MB RAM, 4GB eMMC, it is reasonably well connected but nothing really differentiates it from anything else out there
2020-12-28T19:45:53 < Laurenceb_> yeah I cant find a camera for it either
2020-12-28T19:46:15 < aandrew> not even USB3
2020-12-28T19:47:39 < Laurenceb_> shrug its not there to be a pc replacement
2020-12-28T19:47:53 < Laurenceb_> it has documented and sane design, or should
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2020-12-28T19:49:28 < fluiD> Anyone here have some knowledge on the state of rad hardened versions of the STM32?
2020-12-28T19:49:32 < Laurenceb_> seeed dont seem to make a camera for it
2020-12-28T19:49:38 < Laurenceb_> maybe they intend to...
2020-12-28T19:49:48 < Laurenceb_> fluiD confirmed as nuclear bomber
2020-12-28T19:50:01 < fluiD> damn, my cover has been blown
2020-12-28T19:50:04 < Laurenceb_> fluiD: I didnt even know they exist tbh
2020-12-28T19:51:34 < Laurenceb_> aandrew: the documented design and kernel from ST, together with M4 with sane multicore integration is the point
2020-12-28T19:51:54 < Laurenceb_> also it has battery and RTC so already pwns rpi
2020-12-28T19:54:14 < Laurenceb_> has anyone ever come across power over optic fibre?
2020-12-28T19:54:53 < Laurenceb_> theoretically it should be possible
2020-12-28T19:55:33 < Laurenceb_> using photodiode and a powerful laser
2020-12-28T19:56:43 < jpa-> https://optics.org/news/4/5/1
2020-12-28T19:57:08 < Laurenceb_> oh wow
2020-12-28T19:57:19 < Laurenceb_> there I was thinking of powering micro sensors
2020-12-28T19:58:30 < Laurenceb_> wew octavo have made a stm32mp1 design
2020-12-28T19:58:37 < Laurenceb_> 18mm square wtf
2020-12-28T19:58:54 < Laurenceb_> maybe they are getting bare die from ST ?
2020-12-28T19:59:01 < Laurenceb_> or just CSP?
2020-12-28T20:00:07 < Laurenceb_> >mems oscillators
2020-12-28T20:00:09 < Laurenceb_> ewww
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2020-12-28T20:10:39 < aandrew> Laurenceb: is the documentation on the MP1 decent?
2020-12-28T20:10:43 < aandrew> is the kernel mainlined?
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2020-12-28T20:40:05 < englishman> 100% sure noone in here is buying rad hard stm32. you can get in touch with st and see what rad hard mcus they have but I don't think any of them are arm
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2020-12-28T20:49:12 < CatCow97> st's website doesn't show any mcu's for space products
2020-12-28T20:50:21 < CatCow97> a couple of ASIC products, data convertors, logic, basic devices like transistors and diodes and power devices
2020-12-28T20:51:17 < CatCow97> looks like some other venders have ARM-based products for that tho
2020-12-28T20:56:24 < englishman> pretty typical to not see that stuff on a website, like crypto or automotive stuff. if you are buying it, you already know who you are buying it from
2020-12-28T20:57:35 < CatCow97> true
2020-12-28T21:08:02 < specing> Isn't stm involved with LEON?
2020-12-28T21:08:25 < BrainDamage> is this for some academic project?
2020-12-28T21:15:42 < Laurenceb> aandrew: yeah
2020-12-28T21:15:50 < Laurenceb> st have a wiki thats actually decent
2020-12-28T21:16:08 < Laurenceb> they have some good examples but they do use andriod drivers for their i2c sensors...
2020-12-28T21:16:18 < Laurenceb> spaghetti code intensifies
2020-12-28T21:16:42 < Laurenceb> the OpenAMP support looks very good and well documented
2020-12-28T21:18:49 < Laurenceb> uboot can load the m4 firmware, or I think openamp can too at runtime
2020-12-28T21:19:00 < Laurenceb> a feature that totally couldnt be used by haxors lol
2020-12-28T21:19:46 < Laurenceb> st have openamp libraries for the m4
2020-12-28T21:25:04 < zyp> hmm, openamp looks a bit interesting
2020-12-28T21:46:33 < qyx> englishman: at least you should not use msp430
2020-12-28T21:47:11 < qyx> if you don't want to fail like our first cubesat
2020-12-28T21:56:52 < aandrew> Laurenceb: interesting. maybe when the price drops I'll dick with it
2020-12-28T22:13:10 < Steffannn> Whats wrong with msp430?
2020-12-28T22:24:41 < fluiD> I don't know, what is wrong with it?
2020-12-28T22:28:10 < englishman> rad-hard msp430?
2020-12-28T22:28:21 < englishman> i think the question is: what is right about msp420?
2020-12-28T22:30:24 < fluiD> There's a rad-hardened version of the MSP430. I haven't found any rad-hardened STM32's that aren't part of someone else's package.
2020-12-28T22:32:35 < zyp> that's just because msp430 is so repulsive that the radiation is staying away
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2020-12-28T22:46:18 < fluiD> same method works to keep me single
2020-12-28T22:57:20 < BrainDamage> msp430 is 16 bit, and back when I used it, they had their own gcc fork in order to compile stuff
2020-12-28T22:57:54 < BrainDamage> I forgot if the demo board had a debugger too or just a programmer
2020-12-28T22:58:44 < MrMobius> gcc for it is pretty good
2020-12-28T22:58:52 < MrMobius> you can debug with the board
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2020-12-28T23:01:36 < Timmy> Today I've heard a rumor that ST is going to increase price of its products. You guys heard anything about it?
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2020-12-28T23:07:16 < Steffannn> Whoa mr catphish 
2020-12-28T23:07:44 < catphish> miss me? :)
2020-12-28T23:08:41 < Thorn> Timmy yes there was a letter from ST posted
2020-12-28T23:09:49 < Timmy> Thorn: Will you let me see it?
2020-12-28T23:10:11 < catphish> i'm having a break for a while, this is the first time i've got my laptop out in a couple of months
2020-12-28T23:12:13 < catphish> covid and work were getting shit, so i'm on an indefinite tea break
2020-12-28T23:15:30 < catphish> i did design this computer though - https://imgur.com/a/ECh0THP - through hole low speed digital fun times :)
2020-12-28T23:20:01 < englishman> they still have their own gcc fork to compile shit
2020-12-28T23:20:08 < englishman> due to all the awful processor extensions
2020-12-28T23:20:19 < englishman> like tacked-on, interrupt-unsafe multiplier
2020-12-28T23:21:28 < englishman> don't forget that when they say "it has eight timer channels!!!" that they are zero-indexed and the 0th timer is actually the counter.
2020-12-28T23:22:42 < englishman> not a single 5V tolerant pin. if the chip even sniffs 3.6V nearby, it blows up.
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2020-12-28T23:23:17 < englishman> "low power" modes mean it does literally nothing. the lowest power mode that suppots uart wakeup draws like 15 mA.
2020-12-28T23:25:54 < englishman> all these """Features""""" and more at a price only triple or quadruple that of a far more capable stm32
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2020-12-28T23:55:11 < MrMobius> englishman, youre making stuff up
2020-12-28T23:55:29 < MrMobius> ive run tons of them at 3.6v and you can get way under 1ma in low power mode
2020-12-28T23:55:59 < MrMobius> and you can just do normal multiplication like everyone else if you dont like the added on multiplier
2020-12-28T23:56:09 < englishman> i'm not making anything up
2020-12-28T23:56:15 < englishman> >3.6V and it blows up right away
2020-12-28T23:56:18 < MrMobius> nope
2020-12-28T23:56:29 < MrMobius> all the demo boards ran at 3.6v up until recently
2020-12-28T23:56:29 < englishman> 1ma is low power? maybe in 1996
2020-12-28T23:56:51 < MrMobius> except I didnt say 1ma
2020-12-28T23:56:56 < englishman> software multiplication? in 2020? lol
2020-12-28T23:57:34 < zyp> englishman, guy I know once said that the msp430 ISA is pretty terrible from a compiler perspective
2020-12-28T23:57:38 < MrMobius> what performance critical multiplications were you doing with it?
2020-12-28T23:57:57 < zyp> terrible as in hard to generate good code for
2020-12-28T23:57:57 < englishman> i had a few boards where a 3.8V transient appeared due to some shit layout and the msp was the first to go
2020-12-28T23:58:20 < MrMobius> who cares what doodads exist inside of it if it does what you want fast enough with low enough power
2020-12-28T23:58:41 < englishman> because even the cheapest stm32 will do it, at 1/10 price and 1/10 power and 1/10 dev time
2020-12-28T23:58:48 < MrMobius> false
2020-12-28T23:59:38 < englishman> idk what it is with the TI-GCC compiler either, anything but -O0 and it starts randomly deleting functions
--- Day changed Tue Dec 29 2020
2020-12-29T00:00:09 < englishman> nothing complex either, this one time it was just an interrupt routine
2020-12-29T00:00:09 < zyp> sounds like they weren't needed
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2020-12-29T00:00:40 < zyp> englishman, that's common
2020-12-29T00:00:41 < englishman> i'm not very smart so i don't write complex code
2020-12-29T00:01:20 < zyp> it doesn't see the interrupt routine called from anywhere, so if you don't tell it explicitly to keep it, an optimizing compiler will throw it out
2020-12-29T00:01:37 < MrMobius> zyp, interesting about the compilers. was he talking about the 20 bit extension stuff? the 16 bit ones are pretty clean
2020-12-29T00:04:06 < zyp> I don't remember exactly, was a few years back, but IIRC it had to do with how the ISA works on registers
2020-12-29T00:04:35 < zyp> maybe I'll have it in an irc log somewhere, gonna check
2020-12-29T00:04:50 < MrMobius> thanks
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2020-12-29T00:12:06 < zyp> haven't found the exact conversation I'm thinking of yet, but so far some snippets where he's shitting on the multiplier being memory mapped and how fun the multiplier state is to deal with when you involve interrupts and context switches
2020-12-29T00:16:47 < Mangy_Dog> this might sound stupid but i just want to be sure... if you set a boolean return function, I only need to make an argument for return true; right? It would default to false otherwise?
2020-12-29T00:17:08 < Mangy_Dog> or must i make a return false ?
2020-12-29T00:18:00 < zyp> pretty sure the return value is undefined if you just let it fall off the end of the function
2020-12-29T00:18:06 < MrMobius> zyp, ya im sure the multiplier part is crappy
2020-12-29T00:18:22 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-29T00:18:22 < Mangy_Dog> ok
2020-12-29T00:18:42 < Mangy_Dog> i mean it doesnt really matter actually as ill be looking for a true anyway in the check
2020-12-29T00:18:59 < MrMobius> bool ret_val=false;   ?
2020-12-29T00:19:32 < Mangy_Dog> im just rewriting my button handling code in to a class... and im reworking how it defines long presses and what not
2020-12-29T00:19:35 < karlp> lolrewnce: errata on mp1 is "oscillator only, no cryztalz thankz"
2020-12-29T00:19:45 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, what do you mean «doesn't matter»? you can't distinguish between an actual true and an undefined value that happens to evaluate true
2020-12-29T00:19:52 < qyx> karlp: :d
2020-12-29T00:19:54 < Mangy_Dog> so the thread that runs the input checking code and defines button states doenst fall out of sync with a slower running UI drawing thread
2020-12-29T00:20:02 < zyp> karlp, haha, fuck
2020-12-29T00:21:12 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, as long as we're talking ARM, the return value from a function is whatever happens to be in the r0 register when the function returns
2020-12-29T00:21:27 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2020-12-29T00:21:51 < zyp> if the function is returning a bool, r0 containing zero will be interpreted as false and any other value as true
2020-12-29T00:22:12 < Mangy_Dog> k
2020-12-29T00:22:36 < zyp> and if you're not returning anything explicitly, the compiler will probably not write a new value to r0, so you're effectively returning whatever was left in r0 after it was last used
2020-12-29T00:22:43 < zyp> which might be 0 or might be something else
2020-12-29T00:23:06 < karlp> -Wextra will warn you if you don't do it properly, 
2020-12-29T00:23:17 < karlp> at least, I think it's in -Wextra, might be in Wall as well.
2020-12-29T00:23:22 < Mangy_Dog> ill just put  else {return false;} then if ambiguity is an issue
2020-12-29T00:23:34  * karlp wonders if mangy knows how to turn on warnings.
2020-12-29T00:23:37 < karlp> or reads them
2020-12-29T00:23:51 < Mangy_Dog> its not thrown me those warnings yet
2020-12-29T00:24:04 < zyp> ah, here's a fun one
2020-12-29T00:24:15 < karlp> why's catphish making a 6502 board?
2020-12-29T00:24:21 < zyp> I made a test for you: https://godbolt.org/z/rWbvq9
2020-12-29T00:24:49 < zyp> the assembly code reads as bool foo(int n) { return true; }
2020-12-29T00:25:31 < zyp> the function doesn't return anything but true anywhere, so the compiler just throws out the entire function body except the return
2020-12-29T00:26:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmmm
2020-12-29T00:28:04 < zyp> the same code compiled with -O0 instead of -O2 turns into bool foo(int n) { if(n == 3) { return true; } return n; }
2020-12-29T00:28:26 < zyp> which will return false for foo(0) and true for everything else
2020-12-29T00:28:41 < Mangy_Dog> joy
2020-12-29T00:28:51 < Mangy_Dog> and i think im doing -o0
2020-12-29T00:28:58 < Mangy_Dog> sooo ill just return false
2020-12-29T00:29:10 < Mangy_Dog> just in case
2020-12-29T00:29:14 < zyp> well, undefined means the compiler can do the fuck what it wants, because there's no rules saying what it has to do
2020-12-29T00:32:37 < zyp> it's not a matter of «just in case», it's a matter of «you have to, otherwise your code is broken, even though the compiler might sometimes do what you expected it to»
2020-12-29T00:33:01 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-12-29T00:34:28 < zyp> code that breaks when you change optimization levels are typically code that relies on false assumptions about undefined behavior
2020-12-29T00:35:01 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-12-29T00:35:08 < karlp> just tturn the fucking warnings on and fix them.
2020-12-29T00:35:14 < zyp> that too
2020-12-29T00:35:20 < karlp> why would you even consider relying on this sort of thing?!
2020-12-29T00:35:20 < Mangy_Dog> well ive not turned that warning off
2020-12-29T00:35:55 < Mangy_Dog> only warning ignored is fpermissive
2020-12-29T00:36:14 < karlp> "control reaches end of non-void function" seems it's on by defauylt
2020-12-29T00:36:18 < karlp> so if you get that warning, fix it.
2020-12-29T00:36:46 < karlp> in older gcc, you need -Wall to get it though
2020-12-29T00:36:56 < karlp> gcc 9 that zyp selected enabled it out of the box for you
2020-12-29T00:37:06 < Laurenceb> karlp: wtf I hate mp1 now
2020-12-29T00:37:15 < Laurenceb> thats a pretty serious screwup
2020-12-29T00:37:18 < karlp> the fuyck you care about that for?
2020-12-29T00:37:25 < Mangy_Dog> mp1?
2020-12-29T00:37:33 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2020-12-29T00:37:40 < Mangy_Dog> sorry getting confuzzled with the m1
2020-12-29T00:37:49 < karlp> osci's arent that much more expensive, and I thougth you'd love the extra stability you normally get
2020-12-29T00:38:01 < Mangy_Dog> isnt the mp1 one of the new rebadged f7 lineup?
2020-12-29T00:38:07 < karlp> no.
2020-12-29T00:38:09 < zyp> Laurenceb, dunno, it'd be worse if it only worked with crystals rather than only external oscs :p
2020-12-29T00:38:12 < Laurenceb> yeah but a clock source would surely be the first thing they would try to get right
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2020-12-29T00:38:31 < karlp> "everyone uses oscillators right?" 
2020-12-29T00:38:39 < karlp> "hey, did anybody actually test this with a crystal?" 
2020-12-29T00:38:49 < Laurenceb> Mangy_Dog: its lunix with a m4
2020-12-29T00:38:58 < karlp> no...
2020-12-29T00:38:58 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-12-29T00:39:08 < karlp> it's a dual a5, with an m4 as well.
2020-12-29T00:39:20 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zMiIv/Screenshot_2020-12-28_23-38-11.png
2020-12-29T00:39:22 < Laurenceb> yeah but lunix with an m4 is what its intended to do
2020-12-29T00:39:23 < qyx> so whats inside
2020-12-29T00:39:45 < qyx> half of the componentsis external
2020-12-29T00:39:57 < karlp> nah, only the ones for regulatory...
2020-12-29T00:40:08 < karlp> but yeah, the lack of all the reg shit inside is why I'm starting to do my own.
2020-12-29T00:40:14 < karlp> (I'll probably fail, but it mgiht be fun)
2020-12-29T00:40:30 < zyp> your own DC-DC?
2020-12-29T00:40:34 < Laurenceb> unlike most autistic multi core shit mp1 actually looks useful, thanks to the openamp shit
2020-12-29T00:40:34 < karlp> inside you still have the rectifiers, and buck controller and transformer
2020-12-29T00:40:47 < Laurenceb> much less retarded than xmos type stupidity
2020-12-29T00:40:50 < karlp> zyp: yeah, looking at at least protoing my own offline smps.
2020-12-29T00:40:52 < karlp> beaky here I come.
2020-12-29T00:41:00 < karlp> viper26 or something,
2020-12-29T00:41:07 < Laurenceb> or... transputer
2020-12-29T00:41:09 < qyx> oh have you seen
2020-12-29T00:41:17 < karlp> will probably fuck it up, but will get the project moving
2020-12-29T00:41:21 < zyp> heh
2020-12-29T00:41:34 < karlp> and will be able to get it into the space required
2020-12-29T00:42:00 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QllET/Screenshot_2020-12-28_23-41-41.png
2020-12-29T00:42:03 < karlp> I'd always expected to outsource this seciton, but will be easier to outsouce when it's "here where it needs to fit, now fix it so it passes emissions and interference"
2020-12-29T00:42:09 < qyx> I am about to make some fireworks
2020-12-29T00:42:53 < zyp> karlp, DC-DC or AC-DC?
2020-12-29T00:42:55 < karlp> oh, mp1 is single or dual..
2020-12-29T00:42:58 < karlp> zyp: ac/dc.
2020-12-29T00:43:03 < zyp> ah, right
2020-12-29T00:43:03 < qyx> it is an interleaved 4quadrant smps with a 3 phase bridge
2020-12-29T00:43:11 < qyx> at least it hopes to be
2020-12-29T00:43:23 < zyp> karlp, none of the existing shits fits?
2020-12-29T00:43:46 < karlp> universal to 12V isolated, about ~10W, then about ~6-7W of that into 5V.
2020-12-29T00:44:03 < karlp> zyp: might, but they're expensive, and you still need to put all the emi reg stuff externally
2020-12-29T00:44:16 < zyp> true
2020-12-29T00:44:17 < karlp> traco/xppower/recom shits
2020-12-29T00:44:35 < karlp> also, not all of them are cat III,
2020-12-29T00:45:11 < karlp> totally reasonable for niche industrial, but I want cheap, not "haha open your wallet" industrial"
2020-12-29T00:46:25 < zyp> and you need enough that it'll actually pay for itself to roll your own alternative to expensive modules?
2020-12-29T00:48:36 < karlp> in my dreams, of course :)
2020-12-29T00:48:46 < karlp> but really, cat III is actualyl really limiting..
2020-12-29T00:48:55 < karlp> ltos of the off the shelf modules ar eonly cat II rated.
2020-12-29T00:49:26 < karlp> cat III you're instantly into ttheir medical/military lines and paying $$$ for them
2020-12-29T00:50:50 < qyx> whats cat III, 4kV iso?
2020-12-29T00:51:53 < karlp> also ~double the creepage distances required.
2020-12-29T00:54:48 < karlp> yeah, 4kv
2020-12-29T00:55:20 < karlp> so 6mm creepage/clearance
2020-12-29T00:59:06 < karlp> so, there's an xppower one that meets the requirements, but it's $23 in 100s.
2020-12-29T00:59:12 < karlp> that's... horrible
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2020-12-29T01:05:53 < zyp> directly from xppower or from distros?
2020-12-29T01:06:11 < karlp> from octopart, ~averge, 
2020-12-29T01:06:24 < karlp> I know it could be cheaper, and might be worth looking at,
2020-12-29T01:06:28 < karlp> *shrugs*
2020-12-29T01:07:14 < karlp> can'ttt let the bom get silly though
2020-12-29T01:07:29 < karlp> what am I doing anyway, it's meant to be holidays...
2020-12-29T01:07:43 < zyp> they sent me samples once and have called me back once or twice asking how my project is going, so they're certainly willing to talk to small customers, and I have the impression you can get stuff way cheaper than through distros that way
2020-12-29T01:08:02 < zyp> :)
2020-12-29T01:08:27 < zyp> I just came home from the holidays today, currently catching up
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2020-12-29T01:09:05 < karlp> my aj vörulistinn shelves arrived this afternoon, hopefully will ge tthem up tomorrow or the day after
2020-12-29T01:09:06 < zyp> barely even touched my laptop for a week
2020-12-29T01:09:17 < karlp> would be nice to finish that project for the end of the year :)
2020-12-29T01:09:23 < zyp> nice
2020-12-29T01:10:40 < zyp> the last of my shipments of euroboxes arrived right before we left for the airport last week, so now I've got a ton of empty plastic boxes in the storage room, ready for reorganization
2020-12-29T01:21:23 < karlp> mp1 bootrom errata is also neat, "If an eMMC does not answer (for example, because it is not yet powered) the first command sent to CMD line, the
2020-12-29T01:21:25 < karlp> boot routine remains in an infinite loop with no timeout, which causes the boot process to fail.
2020-12-29T01:21:34 < karlp> workaround: none.
2020-12-29T01:22:12 < qyx> you can boot the second level bootloader from spi flash
2020-12-29T01:22:19 < karlp> yeah, sure, thanks for that :)
2020-12-29T01:22:46 < karlp> like you'd want to put a second flash down and a second loader for it.
2020-12-29T01:22:48 < karlp> what a pain
2020-12-29T01:22:49 < qyx> you can boot the whole thing from a 4MB spi flash!
2020-12-29T01:23:23 < karlp> "16-bit and 14-bit data resolutions are not recommended on these pins when Gigabit Ethernet is used. This limits
2020-12-29T01:23:24 < karlp> data resolution configuration to 8 bits, 10 bits or 12 bits."
2020-12-29T01:23:37 < karlp> sure, but you've got to have placed tthat, and get it flashed, and still have the emmc
2020-12-29T01:23:55 < karlp> I mean, I'd want to put down _just_ the emmc, but that seems like playing with fire with mp1
2020-12-29T01:29:57 < fenugrec> aandrew, did you figure out your swd problem
2020-12-29T01:36:29 < karlp> hrm, I wonder if iec62368 woudl actually be _easier_ for this...
2020-12-29T01:37:53 < qyx> do we have a list of iecs links in zypsnips?
2020-12-29T01:38:11 < qyx> someone mentioned they are available somewhere recently
2020-12-29T01:38:14 < karlp> no, seems unwise.
2020-12-29T01:38:21 < karlp> yeah, that hcina place doens't have any of the recent ones.
2020-12-29T01:38:49 < karlp> I've got a few I can send on demand, but, they're not all up to datte either 
2020-12-29T01:39:25 < qyx> are they any good for long winter evenings?
2020-12-29T01:41:22 < qyx> I'd like to have some if you could share part of your upload bandwidth
2020-12-29T01:44:45 < fenugrec> nothing on rutracker ?
2020-12-29T01:46:16 < qyx> wait what karlp 00:22 < karlp> like you'd want to put a second flash down and a second loader for it.
2020-12-29T01:46:49 < aandrew> fenugrec: not yet; I just forced BOOT=1 and erased flash and now with BOOT=0 I can connect. I have to re-flash my program and see if it dies
2020-12-29T01:46:51 < qyx> no, just a single one on the SPI flash with a kernel, initramfs, dt and rootfs on emmc
2020-12-29T01:51:26 < karlp> yes, but you now have spi-nor+emmc, instead of just emmc...
2020-12-29T01:56:12 < karlp> so, iec62368 leaves me at 4kv for catIII, but moves me from 6mm creepage down to 5.5mm creepage.... yay
2020-12-29T02:01:27 < Laurenceb> maybe you could have a supervisor
2020-12-29T02:01:35 < Laurenceb> like... an M4 core on the board lmao
2020-12-29T02:01:59 < Laurenceb> or just some 555 timer tier weirdness
2020-12-29T02:02:13 < Laurenceb> to kill reboot loops with hardware
2020-12-29T02:02:57 < BrainDamage> that's called a timer watchdog
2020-12-29T02:03:14 < BrainDamage> pretty sure every cpu and mcu has one since a decade or more
2020-12-29T02:03:56 < BrainDamage> you can set if the watcdog gets reset or not at soft reboot
2020-12-29T02:04:08 < Laurenceb> yeah wait wtf
2020-12-29T02:04:15 < Laurenceb> so why is emmc as issue
2020-12-29T02:04:51 < Laurenceb> mp1 seems to have a watchdog that can be set to turn on at boot
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2020-12-29T02:16:53 < Laurenceb> edmund kelly is almost as retarded as xmos
2020-12-29T02:18:29 < Laurenceb> https://www.linkedin.com/public-profile/in/edkellyus?challengeId=AQGxVhqHv_n9HAAAAXar2xhDthcj1_VsTBishir-TFS-uc7s-SuohP0x1OVYIeQmc3nY_Nyl8KJskmpA0YW7os5-0DjTYYbGpA&submissionId=7c602ad0-cf07-5516-74a8-c4ad24fdd23c
2020-12-29T02:18:36 < Laurenceb> >founder of Transmeta
2020-12-29T02:18:40 < Laurenceb> that explains a lot
2020-12-29T02:18:50 < Laurenceb> also prob bullshit
2020-12-29T02:19:17 < Laurenceb> >Successful
2020-12-29T02:19:23 < qyx> hm, ddr3 is 0.8mm pitch bga
2020-12-29T02:19:29 < qyx> Thorn: hows your mp1 project?
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2020-12-29T02:28:22 < Laurenceb> https://www.bytesnap.com/applications-processors-stm32mp1-i-mx7ulp/
2020-12-29T02:28:31 < Laurenceb> power and gpu sucks a bit
2020-12-29T02:29:53 < aandrew> holy fuck that website is aids
2020-12-29T02:29:57 < aandrew> popup chat, close it
2020-12-29T02:30:01 < aandrew> popup subscribe, close it
2020-12-29T02:30:05 < aandrew> next up will be closing the tab
2020-12-29T02:30:48 < BrainDamage> I love how in the 90s popups were abused as hell, so browsers started blocking popups
2020-12-29T02:31:12 < BrainDamage> and nowdays, they just reinvented popups, called them lightboxes, and made them even nastier to get rid of
2020-12-29T02:31:43 < aandrew> is that what they're called now?
2020-12-29T02:31:47 < BrainDamage> there's something truly broken in the mind of web designers
2020-12-29T02:33:35 < Laurenceb> its called javascript
2020-12-29T02:33:52 < Laurenceb> cancerscript
2020-12-29T02:34:04 < Laurenceb> more cancerous than matlab
2020-12-29T02:34:23 < Laurenceb> at least matlab works and has uses
2020-12-29T02:45:37 < Laurenceb> javascript usually pegs the cpu before breaking
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2020-12-29T04:48:28 < aandrew> so do you have to explicitly do something to the SWD pins these days? my project does not fuck with the GPIOs so SWD shouldn't disappear
2020-12-29T04:48:44 < aandrew> or is HAL_Init() doing it
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2020-12-29T04:58:59 < fenugrec> aandrew, hal_init does unholy things yes. did you dump the gpio_moder regs
2020-12-29T04:59:34 < fenugrec> hehe that could be difficult with no SWD
2020-12-29T05:01:36 < fenugrec> maybe a mem breakpoint on _MODER
2020-12-29T05:41:19 < aandrew> fenugrec: hm, HAL_Init() doesn't seem to do a whole fuck of a lot
2020-12-29T05:41:26 < aandrew> but yeah as soon as I run my code, it explodes
2020-12-29T05:42:59 < aandrew> what I find interesting si that it still won't connect under physical reset
2020-12-29T05:52:31 < Laurenceb> lol I broke noaa
2020-12-29T05:52:39 < Laurenceb> it sent me someone elses work
2020-12-29T05:53:12 < Laurenceb> also there is missing data at 22UTC on the 21st Feb every 4th year
2020-12-29T05:53:20 < Laurenceb> see noaa need to pay me to debug their shit
2020-12-29T05:54:11 < Laurenceb> >21st Feb at 22utc is when the alien mothership lands
2020-12-29T05:54:42 < Laurenceb> or maybe it is a message from qanon
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2020-12-29T06:25:29 < fenugrec> aandrew, hm on one project here hal_init calls hal_msp_init which inits some more stuff via a default callback somewhere. but yea if you can't even break on main() it's probly something else I guess
2020-12-29T06:26:07 < aandrew> yes HAL_Init() calls HAL_MspInit() but the only thing that does is init one of hte clocks
2020-12-29T06:28:33 < fenugrec> oh yeah I was thinking of the other HAL_<periph>_Mspinit() stuf
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2020-12-29T06:30:41 < aandrew> right, I've taken over most of those
2020-12-29T06:54:24 < aandrew> wait
2020-12-29T06:54:36 < aandrew> does this fucking CPU not work at full speed at 1.8V VDD
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2020-12-29T07:24:47 < aandrew> yep that was the issue; Cube thought that VDD was 3.3V and that caused it to select some bad regulator mode
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2020-12-29T12:45:56 < jpa-> meh, how many times must i fail before i start remembering that 1x probes have >100pF capacitance.. no wonder my results were not matching simulation
2020-12-29T12:47:22 < antto> i keep the probes to 10X on the rigl0l
2020-12-29T12:47:45 < antto> jpa-, just glue teh switch
2020-12-29T12:48:11 < antto> hm, or put shrink-wrap on it
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2020-12-29T15:19:43  * qyx ordering peli cases
2020-12-29T15:19:47 < qyx> I always like ordering peli cases
2020-12-29T15:32:41 < zyp> I wanna do that too
2020-12-29T15:32:49 < zyp> just don't have anything that makes sense to put in them
2020-12-29T15:41:21 < qyx> make some super pro lora sensors
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2020-12-29T15:49:59 < zyp> ==> Upgrading 1 outdated package:
2020-12-29T15:50:00 < zyp> gcc-arm-embedded 7-2017-q4-major -> 10-2020-q4-major
2020-12-29T15:50:03 < zyp> probably about time
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2020-12-29T16:13:54 < qyx> is it just me or there is no bidir e-fuse controller disconnecting both V+ and V-?
2020-12-29T16:14:08 < qyx> I am running out of ideas what to write to google
2020-12-29T16:14:40 < qyx> I can't even find a high-side only bidir e-fuse
2020-12-29T16:15:01 < qyx> there are some supporting back-to-back mosfets but they are fusing in one direction only
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2020-12-29T16:20:42 < qyx> ok I am partially dumb
2020-12-29T16:20:51 < qyx> actually I don't need bidirectional
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2020-12-29T16:49:17 < zyp> but yeah, lack of bidirectional is a thing
2020-12-29T16:50:14 < antto> get a smol mirror
2020-12-29T17:04:30 < qyx> I am eliminating my needs step-by-step
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2020-12-29T17:48:49 < mawk> I'm snorting lines in public toilet
2020-12-29T17:48:53 < mawk> at train station
2020-12-29T17:49:07 < mawk> so I want my "achievement unlocked" sound right now
2020-12-29T17:50:02 < qyx> wasn't you supposed to take the thing by ingesting?
2020-12-29T17:50:16 < mawk> yes
2020-12-29T17:50:22 < mawk> but the doctor never told me "swallow it"
2020-12-29T17:50:33 < mawk> so I got creative in choosing my route of administration
2020-12-29T17:51:05 < mawk> I could've went with IV or IM, be happy that it's just snorting
2020-12-29T17:51:35 < BrainDamage> boofing
2020-12-29T17:51:55 < mawk> we call that plugging
2020-12-29T17:52:03 < mawk> it's the technical term among psychonauts
2020-12-29T17:52:12 < qyx> I am indifferent to your drug habits, just curious
2020-12-29T17:52:14 < mawk> but don't mock it, it's a very cool alternative to injection
2020-12-29T17:52:22 < mawk> it's needle-less intramuscular injection
2020-12-29T17:52:28 < mawk> rectum is very vascularized
2020-12-29T17:52:47 < mawk> that was my favorite ketamine RoA
2020-12-29T17:52:57 < zyp> mawk doing maths > mawk doing drugs
2020-12-29T17:53:03 < mawk> lol
2020-12-29T17:53:11 < mawk> the two are inextricably linkee
2020-12-29T17:53:13 < mawk> linked
2020-12-29T17:53:25 < mawk> I could've never overcome my hyperactivity without drugs
2020-12-29T17:53:31 < mawk> and never go to maths school
2020-12-29T17:54:21 < mawk> opiates 3× a day keeps the lack of motivation away, as my nanny used to say
2020-12-29T17:54:53 < mawk> that's how they put children to sleep some time ago, opium laudanum
2020-12-29T17:54:57 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjho-zVgDXo
2020-12-29T17:55:00 < mawk> that and masturbating the children
2020-12-29T17:55:14 < mawk> lol no psychonaut
2020-12-29T18:13:50 < Steffannn> So first i have to get hooked to heroin, and after that get free methadone?
2020-12-29T18:14:56 < qyx> meh kicad crashes again, I am trying to rename a symbol
2020-12-29T18:17:00 < Steffannn> Did you expect this bug to be solved magically?
2020-12-29T18:18:01 < qyx> I should report it to debian but it feels like 1980
2020-12-29T18:21:06 < mawk> yes Steffannn 
2020-12-29T18:21:19 < mawk> fix kicad yourself qyx
2020-12-29T18:21:28 < mawk> that's the true open source spirit
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2020-12-29T18:37:35 < BrainDamage> mawk: the song title is supernaut, but it refers to psychonauts
2020-12-29T18:38:26 < skz81> I'm looking @ DS for STM32F427xx STM32F429xx. But I guess the same question to the rest of the family as well. 
2020-12-29T18:39:17 < BrainDamage> try to listen to it :p
2020-12-29T18:39:57 < skz81> In section Electrical Caracteristics there is a graph plotting current consuption (IDD_VBAT vs. Temp) for different values of Vbat [1.65 .. 3.6V]
2020-12-29T18:40:27 < skz81> Ho I didn't see that's µA... So sleep mode
2020-12-29T18:41:26 < skz81> I was surprized that the current would increase with the voltage for the same operation. Why would I want to provide 3.3V then ? 
2020-12-29T18:42:05 < skz81> But that makes more sense for sleep mode... Quiescent currents and the whole shebang...
2020-12-29T18:42:27 < skz81> BrainDamage, your nick suits you so well :]
2020-12-29T18:42:41 < skz81> I'm not stone enough to even try :p
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2020-12-29T18:43:42 < qyx> usually you don't choose what voltage you provide on Vbat
2020-12-29T18:43:49 < qyx> your battery chooses
2020-12-29T18:44:08 < qyx> its meant to be connected directly to a lithium coin cell or a supercap
2020-12-29T18:44:11 < skz81> qyx, yup fair. 
2020-12-29T18:44:19 < qyx> without a ldo
2020-12-29T18:44:46 < skz81> And that's prolly why it leaks more when voltage is higher
2020-12-29T18:44:47 < qyx> also the current is drawn only when VDD is not present
2020-12-29T18:46:01 < qyx> mosfet pros, does this look legit? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MFcoO/Screenshot_2020-12-29_17-42-08.png
2020-12-29T18:46:12 < qyx> (the central part)
2020-12-29T18:47:20 < qyx> vbus voltage is lower than 2* Vgs rating
2020-12-29T18:48:23 < qyx> I was trying to innovate something other than the opto
2020-12-29T18:52:30 < zyp> cute
2020-12-29T18:55:01 < zyp> any reason you can't just use a pair of transistors instead?
2020-12-29T18:55:35 < zyp> I assume GNDD has a level between the vbus supplies?
2020-12-29T18:56:43 < zyp> for the pfet on positive, you could turn it on with an nfet, and mirroring that I guess you could just use a pfet to turn on the nfet on negative side
2020-12-29T18:57:02 < qyx> isnt that 4 more transistors?
2020-12-29T18:57:08 < zyp> just swap source and gate, hooking source to OUTPUT_EN and gate to GNDD
2020-12-29T18:57:12 < zyp> no, two more
2020-12-29T18:57:14 < qyx> wat
2020-12-29T18:57:40 < zyp> hang on, I can draw it in that simulator thing
2020-12-29T18:57:58 < qyx> I deleted the simulator thing, ltspice, that is
2020-12-29T18:58:05 < zyp> I mean falstad
2020-12-29T19:07:04 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2020-12-29T19:08:41 < englishman> are those current sensing amps going to work
2020-12-29T19:08:49 < englishman> won't they both sense the same direction
2020-12-29T19:09:20 < qyx> yeah but I have to catch ground faults
2020-12-29T19:09:44 < qyx> it is an IT system, the ground is just floating around
2020-12-29T19:09:56 < englishman> what's the point of the opto when you have ground connection thru the opamps?
2020-12-29T19:10:21 < qyx> to simplyfy things
2020-12-29T19:10:22 < qyx> i/y fuk
2020-12-29T19:10:32 < qyx> simplify
2020-12-29T19:11:24 < qyx> another catch is the opamps don't tolerate Vcm much below GND
2020-12-29T19:11:42 < qyx> so GND will probably be at VBUS-
2020-12-29T19:12:22 < englishman> yeah but I assume current flows in the top and out the bottom right, and you want to find the difference, which is all well and good. but you'll get a negative differential voltage on the lower opamp which it won't be able to amplify
2020-12-29T19:12:39 < englishman> in that case it'll work
2020-12-29T19:13:19 < englishman> unless it really is a positive only opamp
2020-12-29T19:13:56 < zyp> qyx, https://tinyurl.com/yd4r3xva
2020-12-29T19:14:13 < qyx> englishman: it is a bi-dir one
2020-12-29T19:14:30 < qyx> oh wait
2020-12-29T19:14:37 < qyx> INA186 it is, not 181
2020-12-29T19:14:49 < qyx> I didn't rename it because of that damned kicad bug :D
2020-12-29T19:16:36 < englishman> lmao
2020-12-29T19:17:09 < qyx> zyp: yeah that would work if I can reference the input to 1/2 Vbus
2020-12-29T19:18:52 < zyp> any reason you can't reference it to negative and make everything simple?
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2020-12-29T19:55:18 < mawk> Steffannn: do companies give bonuses in december usually?
2020-12-29T19:55:25 < mawk> I have a "bonus" line with lots of money on my pay slip now
2020-12-29T19:55:37 < mawk> or is it a bonus like forever and not just for december
2020-12-29T19:56:07 < qyx> zyp: basically I can
2020-12-29T19:56:24 < qyx> how will it make it simple?
2020-12-29T19:56:45 < qyx> I could drive the low side mosfet directly with 3V3, but thats meh
2020-12-29T19:57:08 < Steffannn> Some give a december bonus
2020-12-29T19:57:50 < Steffannn> "eindejaarsuitkering" isnt that uncommon @mawk  
2020-12-29T19:57:54 < Steffannn> not sure if its that for you
2020-12-29T19:58:56 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-12-29T19:59:43 < qyx> from other news, skoda electric is going to deliver some trolley busses to .no
2020-12-29T19:59:53 < qyx> RIP zyp
2020-12-29T19:59:56 < qyx> not because of skoda
2020-12-29T20:00:10 < qyx> but the rest of the buses will be made by Solaris apparently
2020-12-29T20:00:46 < Steffannn> am i supposed to know Solaris ?
2020-12-29T20:00:46 < mawk> but we haven't had that last year Steffannn 
2020-12-29T20:00:51 < mawk> and the bonus is in march at my company
2020-12-29T20:01:03 < qyx> we had some solarises here, they catched fire few times
2020-12-29T20:01:05 < mawk> maybe they finally gave me a raise, but as a bonus and not salary
2020-12-29T20:01:18 < mawk> so it doesn't go into retirement fund
2020-12-29T20:01:20 < Steffannn> better ask your employer then
2020-12-29T20:01:32 < Steffannn> lol they are screwing you over
2020-12-29T20:01:34 < mawk> and it doesn't help me qualify for the skilled worker tax cut thing
2020-12-29T20:01:48 < mawk> I'm slightly below limit to get that magic tax cut
2020-12-29T20:03:22 < Steffannn> skilled worker tax thing?
2020-12-29T20:03:30 < qyx> wjats that
2020-12-29T20:03:47 < mawk> if you earn enough then for 4 years you have a very interesting tax cut
2020-12-29T20:03:51 < mawk> to help you install in the country
2020-12-29T20:04:02 < mawk> so you need either a advanced diploma or a high salary
2020-12-29T20:04:34 < mawk> "30% tax ruling"
2020-12-29T20:04:42 < mawk> https://www.expatica.com/nl/finance/taxes/the-dutch-30-ruling-explained-101641/
2020-12-29T20:06:14 < zyp> is €38k considered a high salary?
2020-12-29T20:06:17 < effractur> yes
2020-12-29T20:06:20 < effractur> well high
2020-12-29T20:06:28 < effractur> enough to live from
2020-12-29T20:06:35 < effractur> but that 30% tax cut is really nice
2020-12-29T20:06:54 < mawk> I earn 36k, with a 1050€/month rent
2020-12-29T20:06:59 < mawk> and a non-working person to support at home
2020-12-29T20:07:06 < Steffannn> ooh only for imported people, fuck that
2020-12-29T20:07:07 < effractur> yes but 1050 rent is high
2020-12-29T20:07:21 < Steffannn> they should appreciate the people already living in dutchland more
2020-12-29T20:07:25 < mawk> Steffannn: it works for dutchies too
2020-12-29T20:07:30 < mawk> if you go live abroad for 5 years or something, then come back
2020-12-29T20:08:16 < effractur> because 36k is quite a low salry tbh
2020-12-29T20:08:30 < zyp> mawk, that sounds low and high, respectively
2020-12-29T20:08:55 < mawk> yes
2020-12-29T20:08:57 < effractur> like i earn more for my parttime temp job
2020-12-29T20:08:59 < mawk> I'm exploited
2020-12-29T20:09:04 < effractur> if i would work fulltime
2020-12-29T20:09:39 < zyp> last I rented I earned €55k and paid <€600 in rent
2020-12-29T20:09:47 < Steffannn> maybe you are just lucky effractur ? ;)
2020-12-29T20:09:59 < mawk> next job will probably have higher salary
2020-12-29T20:10:09 < effractur> Steffannn: Na i earn quite low compared to my friends
2020-12-29T20:10:11 < Steffannn> and cant compare norwegian standards to dutch standards.
2020-12-29T20:10:12 < mawk> I think it's normal to have only that for someone with 0 years experience
2020-12-29T20:10:13 < qyx> skilled worker? is that a worker with bus factor approaching 1?
2020-12-29T20:10:20 < mawk> lol
2020-12-29T20:10:28 < mawk> it's like tech jobs and so on
2020-12-29T20:10:34 < zyp> Steffannn, comparing salary to rent here
2020-12-29T20:10:46 < Steffannn> but yeah, starters are often exploited.
2020-12-29T20:11:08 < mawk> and anyway if I had a different job offering with higher salary but some shit I hate like webdev, I wouldn't take it
2020-12-29T20:11:14 < mawk> I just want to be not negative at the end of the month
2020-12-29T20:11:24 < zyp> eh
2020-12-29T20:11:27 < Steffannn> just get the offer and take it back to your current employer. 
2020-12-29T20:11:32 < mawk> lol
2020-12-29T20:11:37 < Steffannn> not that uncommon.
2020-12-29T20:11:51 < effractur> yea
2020-12-29T20:12:00 < zyp> I earned more than €36k even fresh out of uni, and that was before the past 9.5 years of inflation
2020-12-29T20:12:02 < effractur> assuming you have a permanent contract
2020-12-29T20:12:12 < mawk> not yet
2020-12-29T20:12:16 < mawk> still 1 year to get permanent
2020-12-29T20:12:22 < effractur> but more then 36K fresh out of uni is also quite normal in NL
2020-12-29T20:12:26 < effractur> for tech related stuff
2020-12-29T20:12:35 < mawk> yeah they're exploiting me
2020-12-29T20:12:43 < Steffannn> depends on the region.. for where i live its not THAT uncommon
2020-12-29T20:12:44 < mawk> but it's a small company so I don't know
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2020-12-29T20:12:57 < effractur> Steffannn: yes but your rent is a lot lower:P
2020-12-29T20:13:04 < Steffannn> are you sure?
2020-12-29T20:13:42 < effractur> most people i know pay 1250 ex for rent
2020-12-29T20:13:47 < effractur> or more
2020-12-29T20:14:03 < mawk> in which city
2020-12-29T20:14:06 < effractur> amsterdam
2020-12-29T20:14:13 < Steffannn> Thats not the netherlands
2020-12-29T20:14:13 < effractur> but i pay way less because huurtoeslag etc :P
2020-12-29T20:14:24 < effractur> yes true
2020-12-29T20:14:27 < mawk> nothing is the netherlands Steffannn 
2020-12-29T20:14:28 < effractur> your up norht in groningen
2020-12-29T20:14:31 < mawk> it all belongs to Napoléeon
2020-12-29T20:14:50 < Steffannn> no, but amsterdam is not dutchland
2020-12-29T20:15:18 < Steffannn> or maybe its little whore for the tourists and other non-dutchies.
2020-12-29T20:18:10 < zyp> madurodam is though
2020-12-29T20:20:38 < Steffannn> i must admit ive never been there, yet.
2020-12-29T20:21:11 < mawk> I've never been to the Eiffel tower
2020-12-29T20:22:03 -!- spacebyte [~tsm@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-29T20:23:24 < Steffannn> You never enjoyed the poor woman under the eiffel tower begging for money?
2020-12-29T20:26:09 < mawk> lol
2020-12-29T20:26:13 < mawk> they're not even poor
2020-12-29T20:26:15 < mawk> it's organized crime
2020-12-29T20:29:28 < Steffannn> Yeah, thats why i dont trust anyone from or in france.
2020-12-29T20:30:14 < mawk> :(
2020-12-29T20:32:50 < bitmask> hmm, now that im penciling it in, 420mm might be a little small for the width of the spray booth
2020-12-29T20:32:56 < bitmask> what size should i do
2020-12-29T20:33:16 < bitmask> maybe 475
2020-12-29T20:33:32 < bitmask> 500
2020-12-29T20:33:45 < bitmask> oh boy thats just crazy thinking!
2020-12-29T20:33:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: not poor like the kids in Time of the Gypsies?
2020-12-29T20:34:13 < mawk> lol I haven't seen it
2020-12-29T20:34:27 < mawk> but probably not, they're obligated to beg to earn money for the clan leader
2020-12-29T20:34:33 < mawk> who probably rolls around in BMW
2020-12-29T20:35:06 < PaulFertser> Yes, that's my point. It's an organised crime all right but you do not see those benefiting from it under the tower.
2020-12-29T20:40:33 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-29T20:40:50 < mawk> 420 was a lucky number bitmask keep it
2020-12-29T20:41:14 < bitmask> hehe true
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2020-12-29T20:48:39 < Steffannn> so 2000 free dollars bitmask . Damn.
2020-12-29T20:48:55 < bitmask> is it finalized?
2020-12-29T20:49:03 < Steffannn> idk, i read about the maybe
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2020-12-29T20:49:32 < bitmask> i hope so, then i will actually be able to pay for this airbrush :P
2020-12-29T20:49:40 < Steffannn> thats not what it is for sir
2020-12-29T20:49:50 < bitmask> monies for hobbies
2020-12-29T20:50:03 < Steffannn> COVID.
2020-12-29T20:50:08 < Steffannn> And your suffering
2020-12-29T20:50:31 < bitmask> its to bring the economy back, im putting monies in pockets of shop owners
2020-12-29T20:50:37 < bitmask> and bezos
2020-12-29T20:50:43 < Steffannn> How much aliexpress stuff did you order?
2020-12-29T20:50:48 < bitmask> nothin
2020-12-29T20:50:53 < bitmask> lots of ebay/amazon
2020-12-29T20:50:54 < Steffannn> Yay
2020-12-29T20:51:05 < Steffannn> oh, amazon -_-
2020-12-29T20:51:19 < bitmask> but but its so fast
2020-12-29T20:51:20 < bitmask> :P
2020-12-29T20:51:21 < Steffannn> and who ownes ebay nowadays?
2020-12-29T20:51:29 < bitmask> dunno
2020-12-29T20:51:29 < Steffannn> owns.
2020-12-29T20:51:36 < bitmask> whoever musk sold it to
2020-12-29T20:55:27 -!- Steffannn is now known as Steffanx
2020-12-29T20:55:56 -!- Steffanx is now known as Guest172
2020-12-29T20:56:10 < Guest172> whops
2020-12-29T20:56:16 -!- Guest172 is now known as Steffannn
2020-12-29T20:56:23 < fenugrec> bitmusk
2020-12-29T20:57:44 < bitmask> ugh some republican douche blocked the 2k
2020-12-29T21:05:10 < englishman> already itching to ship that $2k to china
2020-12-29T21:07:33 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-29T21:08:00 < Thorn> https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200827-how-self-control-can-actually-unleash-your-dark-side
2020-12-29T21:09:34 -!- PublicWiFi is now known as GNUPlusWiFi
2020-12-29T21:10:20 -!- GNUPlusWiFi is now known as PublicWiFi
2020-12-29T21:21:06 < zyp> musk never owned ebay, did he?
2020-12-29T21:21:37 < zyp> my understanding was musk sold paypal to ebay
2020-12-29T21:23:39 < bitmask> yea i wasnt being serious
2020-12-29T21:23:44 < bitmask> dumb joke
2020-12-29T21:33:08 < bitmask> grrr
2020-12-29T21:33:16 < bitmask> why cant everything be square when you buy it
2020-12-29T21:35:29 < Laurenceb> bitmask: lol muh brother is poor now
2020-12-29T21:35:45 < Laurenceb> he is a trumptard
2020-12-29T21:36:05 < Laurenceb> and my dad wont talk to him lmao
2020-12-29T21:36:24 < Laurenceb> trumptards versus libtards
2020-12-29T21:39:48 < bitmask> i get to go for another colonoscopy, how fun
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2020-12-29T21:42:11 < catphish> always nice having stuff put in your butt
2020-12-29T21:42:17 < bitmask> yup
2020-12-29T21:42:47 < Laurenceb> colonoscopies 4 trump
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2020-12-29T21:59:21 < bitmask> alright, both boards marked up, time to cut out my spray booth
2020-12-29T22:16:07 < englishman> what are you innovating now Laurenceb 
2020-12-29T22:16:28 < englishman> your darpa scam didn't work now you are trying to defraud the noaa?
2020-12-29T22:16:37 < Laurenceb> yeah
2020-12-29T22:16:42 < Laurenceb> for same project
2020-12-29T22:17:10 < englishman> solar balloon cell phone charging?
2020-12-29T22:17:27 < englishman> or solar balloon buttcoin mining?
2020-12-29T22:17:38 < Laurenceb> something like that
2020-12-29T22:17:54 < englishman> why does it need a tether anyway
2020-12-29T22:18:00 < englishman> just float up with a tesla attached
2020-12-29T22:18:03 < englishman> charge the tesla
2020-12-29T22:18:07 < englishman> then come back down and drive away
2020-12-29T22:18:17 < Laurenceb> lol
2020-12-29T22:18:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_RF20hmzPI
2020-12-29T22:19:22 < Laurenceb> >confidential
2020-12-29T22:19:30 < Laurenceb> top secrit shit that would never work
2020-12-29T22:23:08 < englishman> why don't you go right to orbital solar? like in simcity 2000
2020-12-29T22:23:21 < Laurenceb> cuz simcity isnt reality
2020-12-29T22:23:23 < englishman> it worked 20 years ago
2020-12-29T22:23:26 < Laurenceb> but dont tell uk gov
2020-12-29T22:23:36 < Laurenceb> they are funding space solar O_o
2020-12-29T22:23:53 < englishman> theres a tesla in space they could charge that one
2020-12-29T22:24:42 < Laurenceb> lul
2020-12-29T22:25:06 < Laurenceb> the Edmund Kelly thing would prob work but it has to be massive to support huge cables
2020-12-29T22:25:24 < Laurenceb> and the cables have to be huge to stop it fluttering and trashing itself in seconds
2020-12-29T22:25:41 < Laurenceb> so his whole idea is retarded
2020-12-29T22:27:19 < Laurenceb> but... someone solved this problem already
2020-12-29T22:27:42 < BrainDamage> dyson sphere
2020-12-29T22:28:29 < Laurenceb> https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2013/08/london-blimp-400x250.jpg
2020-12-29T22:29:50 < Laurenceb> a flying carpet design just doesnt seem practical because of flutter
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2020-12-29T23:06:34 < mawk> I can't use HSE on nucleo 32?
2020-12-29T23:06:37 < mawk> it faults
2020-12-29T23:10:00 < mawk> also with 32 pins version apparently HSE cannot be a crystal, it can only be MCO 
2020-12-29T23:10:29 < mawk> "BYPASS" mode
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2020-12-29T23:23:00 < Laurenceb> stm32wl looks silly
2020-12-29T23:23:11 < Laurenceb> just a silabs ic connected via spi
2020-12-29T23:23:42 < Laurenceb> no specs for 2PSK performance :(
2020-12-29T23:23:59 < Laurenceb> but its got to be about 6dB worse than silabs at least
2020-12-29T23:24:07 < zyp> haha
2020-12-29T23:24:26 < zyp> can get it with the second cpu though
2020-12-29T23:24:44 < zyp> but can you run custom code on CPU2?
2020-12-29T23:25:12 < Laurenceb> aiui maybe but it didnt seem to be documented
2020-12-29T23:25:28 < Laurenceb> it was more for running binary blob type stuff
2020-12-29T23:25:38 < mawk> someone here tried and failed
2020-12-29T23:25:40 < mawk> to run code on CPU2
2020-12-29T23:25:43 < Laurenceb> ah
2020-12-29T23:25:43 < mawk> wasn't it you zyp ???¿¿
2020-12-29T23:25:52 < zyp> mawk, yes, but that was stm32wb
2020-12-29T23:25:55 < mawk> ah
2020-12-29T23:25:57 < mawk> same stuff
2020-12-29T23:25:59 < zyp> that's why I'm asking if wl is different
2020-12-29T23:26:24 < mawk> use nrf, Laurenceb 
2020-12-29T23:26:48 < mawk> you get pre-certified blobs AND usable documented radio registers if you want to do yourself
2020-12-29T23:26:54 < mawk> and pretty nice chips overall
2020-12-29T23:27:08 < zyp> I've been meaning to have a look at nrf53
2020-12-29T23:27:18 < zyp> since that's also dual cpu
2020-12-29T23:27:39 < mawk> is it better than the nrf52840?
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2020-12-29T23:27:41 < mawk> ah dual cpu
2020-12-29T23:27:58 < Laurenceb> I'm only interested in 434mhz long range stuff
2020-12-29T23:28:02 < zyp> not sure if there's other improvements
2020-12-29T23:28:16 < zyp> I'm interested in zigbee
2020-12-29T23:28:17 < zyp> or I was
2020-12-29T23:28:53 < zyp> until I found an off the shelf product that does more or less exactly what I wanted, which eliminates the need for making my own
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2020-12-29T23:29:38 < mawk> │   129           if (HAL_RCC_OscConfig(&RCC_OscInitStruct) != HAL_OK)                                                                                                                                                                                                        │
2020-12-29T23:29:40 < mawk> │   130           {                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           │
2020-12-29T23:29:42 < mawk> │  >131             Error_Handler();                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          │
2020-12-29T23:29:44 < mawk> │   132           }                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           │
2020-12-29T23:29:46 < mawk> oops
2020-12-29T23:29:48 < mawk> ugly
2020-12-29T23:29:49 < karlp> staph
2020-12-29T23:30:17 < zyp> would still like to do a zigbee project some time just to get a proper understanding of how everything works, but I have enough of other rabbit holes to fall into
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2020-12-29T23:33:20 < zyp> received another fpga board today that I need to find time to play with :p
2020-12-29T23:44:21 < machinehum>  zyp project icestorm or?
2020-12-29T23:44:53 < machinehum> Oh no update since 2018
2020-12-29T23:46:32 < zyp> no, trellis
2020-12-29T23:47:19 < zyp> this board: https://shop.lambdaconcept.com/home/46-2-ecpix-5.html
2020-12-29T23:47:50 < zyp> ecp5 is around an order of magnitude more capable than ice40 :)
2020-12-29T23:49:33 < machinehum> Oh nice
2020-12-29T23:49:36 < machinehum> Never heard of trellis
2020-12-29T23:50:20 < zyp> icestorm is also still being maintained: https://github.com/YosysHQ/icestorm
2020-12-29T23:51:05 < zyp> trellis is effectively the same, just for ecp5 rather than ice40: https://github.com/YosysHQ/prjtrellis
2020-12-29T23:51:17 < machinehum> Ahh, yeah I was looking at the site not the repo
2020-12-29T23:52:21 < zyp> there's interesting stuff going on for other parts as well, but not as mature
2020-12-29T23:52:37 < zyp> but I believe icestorm and trellis are both pretty much feature complete
2020-12-29T23:53:30 < machinehum> I wonder is Lattice is learning anything
2020-12-29T23:53:57 < zyp> this also seems to be going well: https://github.com/daveshah1/prjoxide
2020-12-29T23:55:50 < machinehum> Rust
2020-12-29T23:55:52 < machinehum> cool
2020-12-29T23:56:25 < zyp> I don't really care what language the tools are using, I just find the parts interesting
2020-12-29T23:56:29 < zyp> :)
--- Day changed Wed Dec 30 2020
2020-12-30T00:00:34 < machinehum> I get it, just took a keen interest in Rust over the past year
2020-12-30T00:00:39 < machinehum> Bought the book and everything
2020-12-30T00:00:52 < karlp> anyone heard of "wirepas" before?
2020-12-30T00:01:05 < machinehum> no
2020-12-30T00:03:32 < machinehum> Their website blows at explaning anything
2020-12-30T00:03:32 < qyx> no
2020-12-30T00:05:04 < zyp> doesn't even have a wikipedia article
2020-12-30T00:05:28 < machinehum> Neat, you made a mesh network... What type of radio's are you using
2020-12-30T00:07:29 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thread_(network_protocol)&diff=957336085&oldid=932298430 <- looks like they've been sneaking their name into other articles though
2020-12-30T00:07:43 < machinehum> karlp: Why? You apply for Embedded SW Design Engineer?
2020-12-30T00:07:53 < zyp> (that's a .fi ip)
2020-12-30T00:08:05 < machinehum> heh
2020-12-30T00:10:03 < machinehum> I'm going to apply for that job, just to figure out wtf they're doind
2020-12-30T00:10:06 < machinehum> doing
2020-12-30T00:10:20 < machinehum> Then bitch about how libopencum3 isn't MIT
2020-12-30T00:11:44 < karlp> machinehum: no, just reading a wurth catalog and saw they had hardware for it, had never heard of it before
2020-12-30T00:12:24 < qyx> the only thing you can read on their web is probably exactly that
2020-12-30T00:12:30 < qyx> they are partnering with WE
2020-12-30T00:13:08 < mawk> zigbee is annoying zyp 
2020-12-30T00:13:12 < mawk> with all the NDAs and stuff you have to sign
2020-12-30T00:13:15 < mawk> forget it
2020-12-30T00:13:42 < zyp> uh, last I checked the specs were open
2020-12-30T00:13:45 < machinehum> Don't you just but a nordic ic and use it?
2020-12-30T00:13:57 < mawk> yes machinehum if you use their binary blob
2020-12-30T00:14:14 < machinehum> Oh, honestly I thought all that shit was done in hardware
2020-12-30T00:14:38 < mawk> no it's software stuff
2020-12-30T00:14:40 < mawk> above 802.15.4 iirc
2020-12-30T00:14:44 < zyp> looks like wirepas is 802.15.4 or similar
2020-12-30T00:14:54 < zyp> https://github.com/wirepas/wm-sdk targets nrf52
2020-12-30T00:15:04 < mawk> yet another low power protocol?
2020-12-30T00:15:12 < mawk> zwave, zigbee, thread, ant, dot
2020-12-30T00:15:19 < mawk> we have enough for a century
2020-12-30T00:15:30 < mawk> To use the SDK, you need to have access to the Wirepas binaries. You need to have a software license agreement (SLA) with Wirepas to get them. If you would like to become a SLA licensee, please contact sales@wirepas.com
2020-12-30T00:15:30 < zyp> dot?
2020-12-30T00:15:39 < mawk> yes it's a dead project now I think
2020-12-30T00:15:44 < mawk> but it was yet another low power wireless thingie
2020-12-30T00:15:45 < zyp> never heard about
2020-12-30T00:15:54 < mawk> with big backers
2020-12-30T00:16:02 < zyp> ant I've used, but I think it's pretty much dead by now, killed by ble
2020-12-30T00:16:08 < mawk> and thread?
2020-12-30T00:16:20 < mawk> thread is pretty much vanilla 6lowpan iirc
2020-12-30T00:16:23 < mawk> so that's pretty cool
2020-12-30T00:16:31 < mawk> everything ipv6 is pretty cool
2020-12-30T00:17:14 < zyp> thread seems interesting, builds on 6lowpan, but I haven't seen anything use it yet so I can't tell how it'll work out in practice
2020-12-30T00:18:31 < machinehum> I used the NRF24L01... which I think is a zigbee like nordic thing
2020-12-30T00:18:45 < zyp> at the moment, zigbee seems to have the most momentum for smart home stuff
2020-12-30T00:19:16 < zyp> but my impression might be skewed by the fact that I went for zigbee for my own stuff
2020-12-30T00:21:16 < zyp> I have devices from like five-six vendors all in the same zigbee mesh, so interopability is fairly reasonable
2020-12-30T00:22:06 < mawk> MCO is not connected to HSE input on nucleo-32
2020-12-30T00:22:08 < mawk> why?
2020-12-30T00:22:10 < zyp> got rid of my last zwave devices a few weeks ago by switching to a zigbee thermostat instead
2020-12-30T00:22:18 < mawk> it's much much less capable than zigbee machinehum 
2020-12-30T00:22:25 < mawk> nrf24 is just a low power 2.4GHz dumb thing
2020-12-30T00:22:43 < zyp> nrf24 is just a transceiver
2020-12-30T00:22:44 < mawk> it's made for stuff like wireless keyboards
2020-12-30T00:22:46 < mawk> not smart devices
2020-12-30T00:22:48 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-30T00:22:56 < mawk> but I mean the protocol itself, enhanced shockburst, is much less capabe
2020-12-30T00:22:59 < mawk> +l
2020-12-30T00:23:14 < mawk> even the name is dumb
2020-12-30T00:23:42 < zyp> IIRC it's similar in how it's doing framing and all, but the MTU is too small to do zigbee
2020-12-30T00:24:06 < mawk> I don't recall there being broadcast in it
2020-12-30T00:24:34 < mawk> or multicst or whatever
2020-12-30T00:24:44 < mawk> and there are no beacons and so on
2020-12-30T00:24:47 < mawk> it's a dumb protocol
2020-12-30T00:26:20 < zyp> you could layer that on top
2020-12-30T00:27:55 < machinehum> Sometimes I feel like nrf24, just a dumb low power thing
2020-12-30T00:28:08 < qyx> I feel like BrainDamage now
2020-12-30T00:28:09 < machinehum> But yeah I was using it to send a byte over the air
2020-12-30T00:28:27 < machinehum> There were like 32 channels or something, nothing fancy
2020-12-30T00:28:39 < machinehum> No broadcast iirc
2020-12-30T00:29:06 < mawk> it's used for wireless keyboards
2020-12-30T00:29:17 < mawk> I've seen atmel chips with nrf24l01+ in logitech 
2020-12-30T00:29:26 < mawk> should not be too hard to eavesdrop on
2020-12-30T00:29:36 < mawk> there is no builtin encryption to the protocol
2020-12-30T00:29:43 < mawk> and probably if there is encryption it's like ECB mode
2020-12-30T00:30:05 < mawk> so you can do some statistics to recover plaintext
2020-12-30T00:30:28 < mawk> the nrf52840 supports that protocol, you could use it to scan all channels and detects the one
2020-12-30T00:31:29 < qyx> englishman: you were partially right that +/- swapped
2020-12-30T00:31:30 < qyx> are
2020-12-30T00:31:31 < qyx> I have
2020-12-30T00:31:46 < englishman> cool
2020-12-30T00:32:22 < englishman> I didn't learn anything about opamps in skool, just the basics, had a heckin crash course the last two years however
2020-12-30T00:33:51 < qyx> I didn't realise the current flows in opposite directions
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2020-12-30T01:29:28 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/ok54s7.png
2020-12-30T01:30:10 < Laurenceb> Kolmogorov vindicated
2020-12-30T01:32:50 < Laurenceb> or: all stratospheric weather of <0.5 day period is turbulence
2020-12-30T01:33:25 < qyx> zyp: what T-coded pcb male connectors are you using? there are no amphenols on tme, I have to dig elsewhere
2020-12-30T01:35:10 < zyp> not sure, probably phoenix
2020-12-30T01:35:49 < qyx> checking mouser
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2020-12-30T01:38:33 < zyp> I know we got the threaded shrouds from phoenix, they were sourced along with the cables, but the connector inserts were sourced along with the other pcb parts
2020-12-30T01:38:56 < zyp> but I assume they are all phoenix, don't think we'd get phoenix shrouds for another brand of inserts :p
2020-12-30T01:40:21 < qyx> I need that kind with a nut from the outside to fix my pcb
2020-12-30T01:41:25 < zyp> ah, the one we use won't do that
2020-12-30T01:41:47 < aandrew> fenugrec: did you hear I got the stm32h753 working
2020-12-30T01:41:56 < qyx> yeah mouser has phenix inserts
2020-12-30T01:42:24 < aandrew> fenugrec: basically Cube thought it was running off 3.3V not 1.8V and the startup code was setting the LDO to mode 3 instead of mode 0 which I guess caused it to crash
2020-12-30T01:42:31 < qyx> tme only has those https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/m12t-04pmms-sf8b15/zastrcky-a-zasuvky-m12/amphenol/
2020-12-30T01:42:37 < zyp> the threaded shroud sits in a hole in the enclosure with a nut, and then the insert soldered to the pcb just pokes through that
2020-12-30T01:43:16 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kvZ4j.jpg
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2020-12-30T01:43:55 < qyx> yes I remember your flower
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2020-12-30T01:44:15 < qyx> I assumed the insert is not fixed inside
2020-12-30T01:44:21 < zyp> correct
2020-12-30T01:44:37 < zyp> pcb is mounted to enclosure with screws, M12s aren't involved in holding it in place
2020-12-30T01:48:18 < fenugrec> aandrew, ah nice, thx
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2020-12-30T01:52:48 < qyx> fuk it screwed the whole idea
2020-12-30T01:54:07 < qyx> I could use those inserts if there was a possibility to properly fasten the pcb to the pelicase
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2020-12-30T02:36:32 < mawk> PaulFertser: how do I use semihosting_fileio mode?
2020-12-30T02:36:41 < mawk> when I enable it, nothing is printed at gdb side
2020-12-30T02:37:00 < mawk> and when I disable it, I have the output from semihosting in the openocd window but it's not very convenient
2020-12-30T02:37:06 < mawk> buried under nagging messages
2020-12-30T02:46:25 < mawk> anyway this is megaslow I removed that sutff
2020-12-30T02:46:27 < mawk> stuff
2020-12-30T02:50:08 < zyp> semihosting throughput should be as fast as your debugger interface can read/write memory, but the latency per call is bad since it breaks and waits for the debugger to finish handling the call before resuming
2020-12-30T02:50:54 < zyp> so buffered writes with a reasonably large buffer should be fast, but putchar will be slow
2020-12-30T02:51:59 < mawk> maybe just the first call is slow then?
2020-12-30T02:52:12 < mawk> but anyway it's not very practical with the output messages in the openocd window among all the useless log
2020-12-30T02:52:44 < mawk> easy to setup though, I just added -lrdimon to linker and that's it
2020-12-30T03:00:50 < Steffannn> Write your stuff to a real file?
2020-12-30T03:02:14 < Steffannn> But dont talk about this pleaaase. It reminds me of this TI norwriter and it makes me cry. Still not sure why no one at work ever fixed it now I think about it. 😅
2020-12-30T03:05:08 < Steffannn> It is used to write firmware to the norflash using a debugger. It uses some sort of semihosting, to read config file from your disk, and the filesize. But you have to write the actual data of the file it just read manually into memory using a memory import in the IDE.
2020-12-30T03:06:36 < Steffannn> [End of TI tools related frustrations]
2020-12-30T03:23:04 < kakium69> evenings steff
2020-12-30T03:29:41 < mawk> it's been one hour I'm trying to print through the stlink uart of a nucleo board, I've been starting to doubt my sanity
2020-12-30T03:30:01 < mawk> then I rememberd it's a board I modified to disconnect the stlink uart from the stm32 core
2020-12-30T03:30:12 < mawk> I should mark them when they're modified
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2020-12-30T03:37:32 < upgrdman> any matroska pros in here? can an MKV file contain frames that are different sizes? the PixelWidth and PixelHeight tags imply no... but MJPEG can theoretically have a different resolution for each frame
2020-12-30T03:38:01 < upgrdman> i guess a new Track can be used any time the resolution changes?
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2020-12-30T03:47:14 < BrainDamage> Ultrasauce is the one with shit up his nose in video codecs
2020-12-30T03:48:21 < mawk>  hmm it wasn't just that
2020-12-30T03:48:30 < mawk> actually it's when I use the HSI clock for uart, it's all broken
2020-12-30T03:48:32 < mawk> why?
2020-12-30T03:48:35 < mawk> on L4
2020-12-30T03:48:47 < mawk> the MSI RC oscillator works perfectly
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2020-12-30T03:49:49 < mawk> maybe HSI calibration value is wrong and should be something else, but what
2020-12-30T04:08:31 < zyp> upgrdman, yes it can
2020-12-30T04:08:51 < upgrdman> zyp, different Tracks required?
2020-12-30T04:09:58 < zyp> I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure I made some files with varying frame sizes some years back
2020-12-30T04:10:06 < upgrdman> k
2020-12-30T04:10:18 < zyp> unless I'm confusing it with changing frame rates
2020-12-30T04:10:26 < upgrdman> guess i'll try and see if players can play it properly
2020-12-30T04:10:36 < upgrdman> and run mkvalidator.exe on it
2020-12-30T04:11:19 < zyp> changing framerates I did for sure, suddenly a bit more unsure about the size
2020-12-30T04:11:52 < upgrdman> k
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2020-12-30T10:12:20 < mawk> Steffannn: cbange your nic
2020-12-30T10:12:22 < mawk> k
2020-12-30T10:12:30 < mawk> put the X back
2020-12-30T10:41:57 < zyp> Stefannnnn
2020-12-30T10:42:22 < mawk> :(
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2020-12-30T11:23:28 < effractur> mawk: i guess he is still asleep :P
2020-12-30T11:23:50 < mawk> he shouldn't
2020-12-30T11:23:54 < mawk> it's almost 13h
2020-12-30T11:24:19 < mawk> if we round up the time in the direction that suits with what I'm saying
2020-12-30T11:32:53 < karlp> arent you only in utc+2?
2020-12-30T11:33:01 < karlp> that's a lot of rounding
2020-12-30T11:33:29 < mawk> yeah it's 10h30 currently
2020-12-30T11:38:21 < PaulFertser> mawk: sorry, wasn't able to help you in the middle of the night
2020-12-30T11:38:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: the problem with slow semihosting is that by default it's line-buffered, so each time you \n it has to halt, wait for the host to read out the data and let it continue
2020-12-30T11:38:54 < PaulFertser> mawk: you can change it if needed by stdbuf() call.
2020-12-30T11:39:13 < mawk> by slow I meant like 500ms delay, that's not what you mean right?
2020-12-30T11:39:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: regarding fileio, yes, it should work like that, redirecting stdout to gdb, but I've personally never ttried.
2020-12-30T11:39:38 < PaulFertser> mawk: well, you can try increasing the poll frequency in openocd probably.
2020-12-30T11:40:10 < mawk> ah I can try that then
2020-12-30T11:40:23 < PaulFertser> By recompiling openocd :)
2020-12-30T11:40:33 < mawk> with hexedit
2020-12-30T11:40:34 < PaulFertser> It's 100 ms apparently
2020-12-30T11:40:36 < mawk> like a real hacker
2020-12-30T11:40:51 < mawk> ah so that wasn't the delay I noticed, maybe the semihosting library I used isn't the right one
2020-12-30T11:41:03 < mawk> I just linked with librdimon.a from the arm toolchain since it seemed to be about semihosting
2020-12-30T11:41:21 < PaulFertser> mawk: it might be adding up, 500 ms sounds about right, probably I'd expect 1/2 of that but that's still a lot.
2020-12-30T11:41:28 < mawk> I see
2020-12-30T11:41:30 < PaulFertser> You got it right
2020-12-30T11:41:32 < PaulFertser> afaict
2020-12-30T11:41:39 < PaulFertser> mawk: do you really need line buffering though?
2020-12-30T11:43:01 < mawk> well for debug messages it's useful to see them as soon as they arrive
2020-12-30T11:43:15 < mawk> or as soon as they are printf'd rather
2020-12-30T11:43:45 < PaulFertser> Well, yes. Semihosting is like that, sorry.
2020-12-30T11:43:59 < PaulFertser> mawk: but you had RTT working, isn't it great for your purposes?
2020-12-30T11:44:39 < mawk> this is a nucleo-32 board, it's annoying to put a probe on it
2020-12-30T11:44:44 < mawk> I need to remove solder bridges and so on
2020-12-30T11:44:59 < mawk> maybe rtt will work with stm32 though but I need to get the segger libs into the code
2020-12-30T11:45:03 < mawk> work with stlink*
2020-12-30T11:46:25 < mawk> but otherwise on the nrf thing rtt works great yes
2020-12-30T11:46:36 < mawk> piping netcat into ts to put timestamp, and voilà
2020-12-30T11:59:43 < qyx> mawk: is there any specific reason why you use HSI instead of MSI?
2020-12-30T12:00:15 < qyx> I had problematic UARTs with HSI too in the past
2020-12-30T12:00:32 < mawk> I could ask the same question in reverse, I didn't see why I had to use MSI
2020-12-30T12:00:41 < mawk> but yeah HSI even at 9600 bauds cannot output anything
2020-12-30T12:00:45 < qyx> but people here told me it is impossible because it is superprecise
2020-12-30T12:00:49 < mawk> and MSI, well doesn't work at 115200
2020-12-30T12:00:51 < mawk> lol
2020-12-30T12:01:04 < mawk> well the datasheet says explicitly it's not precise enough for high speed uart
2020-12-30T12:01:04 < jpa-> i've had no problem with either!
2020-12-30T12:01:16 < mawk> but for me even at 9600 it wasn't working
2020-12-30T12:01:23 < mawk> and even with using the LSE for calibrating HSI
2020-12-30T12:01:25 < qyx> why MSI doesn't work?
2020-12-30T12:01:38 < jpa-> and i don't see how precision matters vs. baudrate; uart should be fine with +-5% error, and that doesn't depend on baudrate
2020-12-30T12:01:44 < mawk> it outputs garbled bytes to uart at 115200
2020-12-30T12:01:49 < qyx> L4 starts with MSI, why you are changing that without specific reason?
2020-12-30T12:02:07 < mawk> I'm using cubemx to generate the code
2020-12-30T12:02:10 < jpa-> mawk: are you using HSI directly or with PLL?
2020-12-30T12:02:14 < mawk> with pll
2020-12-30T12:02:15 < qyx> fuck cubemx
2020-12-30T12:02:19 < mawk> lol
2020-12-30T12:02:34 < mawk> clock tree thing is infinitely easier to configure with cubemx
2020-12-30T12:02:38 < jpa-> maybe your PLL config is somehow messed up - if uart doesn't work because of clock problems, i'd be very worried
2020-12-30T12:02:43 < mawk> click click and voilà
2020-12-30T12:02:50 < jpa-> because having your clock *that* far off the mark means something else is messed up also
2020-12-30T12:02:52 < mawk> well I also tried feeding HSI directly to uart with no pll
2020-12-30T12:02:59 < mawk> and same thing
2020-12-30T12:03:00 < qyx> I am using MSI with 921600
2020-12-30T12:03:04 < mawk> on L4?
2020-12-30T12:03:05 < qyx> also MSI can be trimmed by LSE
2020-12-30T12:03:09 < qyx> yes, L4
2020-12-30T12:03:14 < mawk> yeah I did the lse trimming thing as well
2020-12-30T12:03:17 < mawk> I think
2020-12-30T12:03:20 < qyx> also, MSI is reconfigurable during runtime
2020-12-30T12:03:23 < jpa-> you could just scope it to see
2020-12-30T12:03:37 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-30T12:03:51 < mawk> if I put out the scope the woman living here will yell though
2020-12-30T12:03:55 < mawk> "what is this ugly thing again??"
2020-12-30T12:03:57 < zyp> jpa-, I figure error tolerance goes down when baudrate increases if you keep the same slewrate
2020-12-30T12:04:07 < mawk> "I spend my days trying to get decoration right and you put out monstruosities like that??"
2020-12-30T12:04:24 < mawk> I put the port in "high drive"
2020-12-30T12:04:36 < qyx> change your woman
2020-12-30T12:04:43 < mawk> yes that's work in progress
2020-12-30T12:05:16 < mawk> it's uart through stlink v2.1 also, maybe that changes
2020-12-30T12:06:56 < mawk> and is there a reason to change the msi speed?
2020-12-30T12:07:03 < mawk> default seems to be 4MHz
2020-12-30T12:08:14 < qyx> I am running in low power run mode instead of stop to avoid waking up too fast
2020-12-30T12:08:29 < qyx> but sometimes I have to switch to compute fft
2020-12-30T12:08:51 < mawk> I see
2020-12-30T12:09:04 < mawk> what do you mean to wake up too fast?
2020-12-30T12:09:07 < mawk> you mean too slow?
2020-12-30T12:09:28 < qyx> *too frequently
2020-12-30T12:09:33 < mawk> ah
2020-12-30T12:10:42 < zyp> is waking up expensive?
2020-12-30T12:11:12 < qyx> there was a couple of 100s us iirc
2020-12-30T12:11:21 < qyx> I failed at selecting an accel with big enough fifo
2020-12-30T12:11:30 < zyp> ah
2020-12-30T12:11:45 < qyx> lets check to not talk bullshit
2020-12-30T12:11:51 < zyp> isn't shit like that what BAM should help with?
2020-12-30T12:12:31 < mawk> https://www.st.com/bin/ecommerce/api/image.PF262571.en.feature-description-include-personalized-no-cpn-large.jpg
2020-12-30T12:12:33 < mawk> lol
2020-12-30T12:12:33 < qyx> good question, idk
2020-12-30T12:12:35 < mawk> "move up" "move down"
2020-12-30T12:13:24 < qyx> zyp: hm, 4 us wakeup time from flash
2020-12-30T12:13:30 < qyx> maybe I shuld redo that part
2020-12-30T12:13:36 < zyp> I've never used BAM myself, but as I understand the purpose is to collect data periodically and then waking up the cpu now and then to process it in batches
2020-12-30T12:14:29 < mawk> this BAM thing sounds a bit vaporous
2020-12-30T12:14:33 < zyp> but I'm not sure how flexible it is and if it's actually useful for normal stuff
2020-12-30T12:14:33 < mawk> it's not an actual peripheral or anything right
2020-12-30T12:14:39 < zyp> isn't it?
2020-12-30T12:14:40 < mawk> it's just the description of a technique
2020-12-30T12:15:03 < mawk> put a code in RAM that shuts down flash, go to low power mode, use DMA
2020-12-30T12:15:44 < qyx> should be possible
2020-12-30T12:15:46 < zyp> wait, isn't BAM one of those features listed in those tables present in some chips but not others?
2020-12-30T12:15:59 < qyx> except I have to write something first, then read
2020-12-30T12:16:14 < qyx> how to implement this?
2020-12-30T12:16:19 < mawk> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00121312-using-batch-acquisition-mode-bam-to-maximize-power-efficiency-on-stm32f410-stm32f411-stm32f412-stm32f413-microcontroller-lines-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2020-12-30T12:16:40 < mawk> it's like I said, it's just a way to do things, not an actual peripheral
2020-12-30T12:17:15 < zyp> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f4-series.html <- then why is it listed as present only on F410-413?
2020-12-30T12:18:12 < qyx> the only thing the BAM does is avoiding waking up flash?
2020-12-30T12:19:02 < mawk> it's shutting down flash yes
2020-12-30T12:19:08 < mawk> and processing the interrupt/event from ram apparently
2020-12-30T12:19:15 < mawk> maybe you cannot shut down the flash on other cores zyp 
2020-12-30T12:19:41 < qyx> this gives you 2.4 us wake up time instead of 4.1 us on L4
2020-12-30T12:19:42 < zyp> hmm, looks like that might be
2020-12-30T12:19:51 < qyx> not that much to gain
2020-12-30T12:20:05 < zyp> «… the BAM (Stop flash while CPU in sleep mode).»
2020-12-30T12:20:38 < zyp> okay, I imagined it was more like that peripheral reflex shit or whatever that efr32 got
2020-12-30T12:21:00 < zyp> efm32*
2020-12-30T12:22:19 < jpa-> zyp: maybe, but one has to have really large baudrate for the slewrate to be significant, not 9600bps or 115kbps like they are talking
2020-12-30T12:22:42 < zyp> jpa-, agreed
2020-12-30T12:23:07 < qyx> so I have to assert CS, send command to read repeatedly the same fifo location and then configure dma
2020-12-30T12:23:16 < qyx> and dma the fifo forever?
2020-12-30T12:23:42 < qyx> and do not fear losing the sync?
2020-12-30T12:24:04 < zyp> how often do you need to read the accel?
2020-12-30T12:24:35 < qyx> 1100/16
2020-12-30T12:24:53 < zyp> Hz?
2020-12-30T12:24:56 < qyx> yes
2020-12-30T12:25:02 < qyx> but I am more interested in the general approach
2020-12-30T12:25:03 < zyp> so roughly 100 Hz
2020-12-30T12:25:18 < qyx> yes, in this case I would be good with waking up at 100 Hz
2020-12-30T12:25:52 < zyp> so for a 10ms interval, you'd spend 4.1us waking up
2020-12-30T12:26:13 < zyp> i.e. 0.041% of the time
2020-12-30T12:27:18 < qyx> I could as well put the thing to sleep in the idle task
2020-12-30T12:28:07 < mawk> isn't it what idle task is doing anyway? do a wfi or wfe
2020-12-30T12:28:08 < zyp> I suspect a low power run would waste more power busywaiting than the 0.041% of time spent waking up :)
2020-12-30T12:28:28 < qyx> *to stop
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2020-12-30T13:12:33 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/q9LgS.png <- okay, this is cool
2020-12-30T13:13:38 < jpa-> zyp discovers the joys of printf debug? ;)
2020-12-30T13:14:02 < qyx> whats that
2020-12-30T13:14:19 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/QMUAB
2020-12-30T13:14:28 < Thorn> a cooperative scheduler built on c++20 coroutines, probably
2020-12-30T13:14:39 < zyp> yep
2020-12-30T13:15:14 < zyp> it's not properly reentrant yet, it'd break if the ISR fired at the wrong time, but it's a good starting point
2020-12-30T13:15:46 < zyp> Thorn, how's your stuff coming along?
2020-12-30T13:15:47 < jpa-> oh, that's cool
2020-12-30T13:16:59 < zyp> yeah, being able to actually co_await an IRQ is pretty damn neat
2020-12-30T13:18:53 < Thorn> is it more usable than protothreads? (lol)
2020-12-30T13:20:18 < Thorn> zyp I'm writing C for some haptic teledildo startup, wishing for more free time to work on my stuff
2020-12-30T13:20:53 < zyp> haven't used protothreads
2020-12-30T13:21:22 < zyp> ah, that's the adam dunkels macro hell, looked at that some years ago
2020-12-30T13:21:45 < zyp> IIRC it's pretty similar under the hood, hiding a switch/case structure for the resumption points
2020-12-30T13:23:16 < zyp> syntax is way saner at least
2020-12-30T13:25:33 < Thorn> what if inside a task I want to call a function that can co_await, that function has to be a coroutine too?
2020-12-30T13:25:40 < zyp> yes
2020-12-30T13:25:58 < Thorn> that sucks
2020-12-30T13:26:58 < zyp> why? it's kinda obvious; if the task needs to co_await, it must be suspended, which means it needs to be a coroutine
2020-12-30T13:27:44 < Thorn> do you need some special support for that (awaiting in a nested coroutine) in the scheduler?
2020-12-30T13:28:07 < zyp> no, it's handled by the promises
2020-12-30T13:28:13 < Thorn> and you have to co_await that nested function, correct?
2020-12-30T13:28:17 < zyp> didn't you already implement this yourself?
2020-12-30T13:28:41 < Thorn> I remember stopping at this nested coroutine issue
2020-12-30T13:29:22 < Thorn> it doesn't feel right to have to co_await both a semaphore and what is essentially a nested function
2020-12-30T13:29:46 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/76PET <- the «previous»-stuff handles nested coroutines
2020-12-30T13:30:51 < Thorn> oh final_suspend() ok
2020-12-30T13:30:58 < mawk> why doesn't awaiting nested coroutines feel natural Thorn ?
2020-12-30T13:31:27 < zyp> await_suspend() stores the handle for the parent coroutine and final_suspend() resumes the parent when the child is done
2020-12-30T13:31:52 < zyp> so all that is handled outside the scheduler, scheduler is only a list of pending stuff to call
2020-12-30T13:32:16 < Thorn> one coroutine is a task that runs a loop similar to a rtos task: while (true) {.co_await rx_byte; co_await process_byte(); }. another coroutine (process_byte in this case) is just a helper function
2020-12-30T13:32:32 < Thorn> mawk ^
2020-12-30T13:32:38 < mawk> if the other function is a coroutine, you need to await on it as well
2020-12-30T13:32:45 < mawk> if it's jsut a helper, it doesn't have to be a coroutine
2020-12-30T13:33:05 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/heYgU <- I'm currently using a deque, but I'm gonna switch to a linked list with handles in the task objects themselves
2020-12-30T13:33:10 < Thorn> it may be a helper that needs to do something that blocks
2020-12-30T13:33:17 < mawk> you would want the coroutine-ness to survive function call?
2020-12-30T13:34:05 < Thorn> say simply for(i=0...10) { led_toggle(); co_await delay_ms(300); }
2020-12-30T13:34:35 < zyp> also, a normal function can call a coroutine and then passing the awaitable elsewhere instead of co_await-ing it
2020-12-30T13:35:25 < mawk> why is there the co_ prefix? it's very ugly
2020-12-30T13:35:28 < zyp> e.g. if you have task<int> add(a, b); you can make a task<int> increment(a) { return add(a, 1); }
2020-12-30T13:35:42 < mawk> underscores in keyword make me feel nauseous
2020-12-30T13:35:52 < rajkosto> you mean like for_each ?
2020-12-30T13:36:03 < mawk> that's not a keyword
2020-12-30T13:36:09 < mawk> that's a function
2020-12-30T13:36:50 < mawk> camel case is fine
2020-12-30T13:37:12 < zyp> anyway, gtg, would love to continue the discussion later
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2020-12-30T15:19:34 < mawk> I decoded a 4 digits padlock by listening to the clicks
2020-12-30T15:19:36 < mawk> I'm a super pro now
2020-12-30T15:19:39 < mawk> code was 2012
2020-12-30T15:25:11 < PaulFertser> mawk: where the wheels not binding under load?
2020-12-30T15:27:22 < mawk> I was pulling on the shackle to make the wheels hard to turn
2020-12-30T15:27:33 < mawk> then turn them in order of depth until they each click nicely
2020-12-30T15:27:54 < mawk> and that was the combination
2020-12-30T15:28:10 < PaulFertser> Aha, so that's the typical pull to bind metdod.
2020-12-30T15:28:28 < mawk> I was about to give up and look online how to do, then it worked
2020-12-30T15:32:57 < CatCow97> well I guess I'm gonna be learning a lot of C soon
2020-12-30T15:33:06 < CatCow97> playing with some of ST's demos
2020-12-30T15:33:19 < CatCow97> the touch sensors on the 072 board are kinda fun
2020-12-30T15:33:32 < CatCow97> even if ST's code isn't quite cut and paste and run...
2020-12-30T15:33:44 < CatCow97> at least the problems have been simple to find so far
2020-12-30T15:45:28 < mawk> I tried again, definitely works great PaulFertser 
2020-12-30T15:45:35 < mawk> I wonder is lock is just very badly made so that it's so easy to open
2020-12-30T15:45:44 < mawk> not that quickly though, but probably with practice it's quicker
2020-12-30T15:48:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: if it lets to bind the wheels by pulling on the shakle it's defective by design.
2020-12-30T15:49:36 < mawk> it looked expensive though
2020-12-30T15:49:42 < mawk> probably isn't
2020-12-30T15:54:13 < BrainDamage> most often the dumbest locks are those that look massive and scary
2020-12-30T15:57:21 < mawk> https://serveur.io/lock.jpg
2020-12-30T15:57:47 < mawk> but it's all wobbly
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2020-12-30T15:57:59 < CatCow97> gonna start making some youtube vids and compete with Lock Picking Lawyer now? :-P
2020-12-30T15:58:21 < CatCow97> that guy is stupid fast at picking locks
2020-12-30T15:58:35 < mawk> lol no I just wanted to get back my lock
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2020-12-30T16:37:43 < Thorn> zyp btw have you thought about something like co_await any(rx_byte, timeout_ms(1000)); ?
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2020-12-30T17:26:55 < zyp> Thorn, having timeouts would be useful, python asyncio has a timeout() wrapper for that
2020-12-30T17:27:35 < zyp> but I'm not sure how useful timeouts would be without cancellation, and I haven't thought out how to do cancellation yet
2020-12-30T17:28:44 < zyp> I suspect doing cancellations in a sane manner would involve exceptions
2020-12-30T17:28:59 < zyp> and I haven't explored using exceptions on embedded yet :)
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2020-12-30T17:46:00 < mawk> I tried for some time to use exceptions on baremetal x86_64
2020-12-30T17:46:05 < mawk> but too annoying to get it to work
2020-12-30T17:46:20 < mawk> there's this stackframe rewinding thing, and compiler suport code you have to do
2020-12-30T17:50:55 < zyp> I haven't looked at it in years, but I think it'd be feasible to use it on embedded if used right
2020-12-30T17:51:30 < zyp> and it could fit well with coroutines since exceptions can propagate across awaits
2020-12-30T17:52:26 < Thorn> wtf, neither of my china j-links work @ 1.8V
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2020-12-30T18:03:54 < Steffannn> Complaining china stuff doesn't work. Love it
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2020-12-30T19:02:41 < mawk> for which target Thorn 
2020-12-30T19:09:14 < Thorn> mawk nrf52840 (dongle)
2020-12-30T19:09:34 < Thorn> it goes into its 1.8V mode when you erase it
2020-12-30T19:10:08 < bitmask> Steffannn you jinxed it
2020-12-30T19:10:32 < mawk> ah yes Thorn that's what I thought
2020-12-30T19:10:38 < Steffannn> Your free 2k, bitmask ?
2020-12-30T19:10:42 < bitmask> yea
2020-12-30T19:10:43 < mawk> you can also power it through vdd directly, you need to change a solder bridge Thorn 
2020-12-30T19:10:45 < bitmask> only got 600
2020-12-30T19:10:50 < Steffannn> Poor bitmask 
2020-12-30T19:10:52 < mawk> then you can flash back the ucir register to get to 3V
2020-12-30T19:10:53 < bitmask> heh
2020-12-30T19:11:08 < mawk> and next time don't erase it, or if you do be sure to flash back a copy of UICR before reboot
2020-12-30T19:14:07 < Thorn> I'm testing a custom bootloader (well it's sdk supplied dfu but custom built) on it so it's hard not to erase
2020-12-30T19:14:31 < Thorn> I turns out programming either softdevice or bootloader resets uicr
2020-12-30T19:14:39 < Thorn> -I
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2020-12-30T19:14:50 < Mangy_Dog> https://youtu.be/ECyGDR5nj34 One of the last tests to do before I can start putting the prop together.... Test all LEDS are working as theyre meant to... i actually had to so some solder fixing but its all working now. 
2020-12-30T19:16:51 < Thorn> mawk I did short SB1 and connected 3.3V to Vdd but the chip had reset stuck low and jlink said "Error powering up DAP", I thought it was kaputt
2020-12-30T19:17:39 < Thorn> but according to the nordick forum if you force reset high by applying 3.3V to it (!) you can recover the chip
2020-12-30T19:17:56 < Thorn> nordick is an endless source of wonder and amusement
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2020-12-30T21:51:28 < mawk> lol what
2020-12-30T21:51:30 < mawk> force reset high
2020-12-30T21:52:48 < mawk> Thorn: then in the init code of your bootloader just ensure NRF_UICR->REGOUT0 = UICR_REGOUT0_VOUT_3V0 << UICR_REGOUT0_VOUT_Pos or whatever
2020-12-30T21:52:53 < mawk> like the bsp code is doing in their examples
2020-12-30T21:53:17 < mawk> how can you have reset stuck low though, that's super weird
2020-12-30T21:53:19 < mawk> you have a link?
2020-12-30T21:53:22 < mawk> maybe it's in errata
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2020-12-30T22:05:44 < zyp> bikeshedding time: I've got a bunch of new code going into laks and I'm not entirely sure how to name everything
2020-12-30T22:06:27 < zyp> the first is all the coroutine stuff
2020-12-30T22:08:34 < zyp> on one hand I'm tempted to put the task/future/scheduler stuff under «async», but I've also got the generator stuff that's kinda unrelated but also a coroutine
2020-12-30T22:09:07 < zyp> so I'm wondering if I should put it all under «coro» or find somewhere else to put the generator stuff
2020-12-30T22:10:21 < zyp> and then I also got the newlib stubs
2020-12-30T22:11:05 < zyp> mainly _sbrk
2020-12-30T22:12:20 < zyp> might just call that newlib_glue since it's not user facing anyway
2020-12-30T22:12:44 < zyp> and lastly I've got the mmio wrappers I've been toying with
2020-12-30T22:13:19 < zyp> #include <mmio/mmio.h> feels verbose, but eh
2020-12-30T22:15:38 < Thorn> task/future/scheduler can just be called scheduler, sounds pro
2020-12-30T22:17:19 < zyp> async sounds better to me
2020-12-30T22:17:43 < zyp> question is whether I put gen along with it, or separate it out
2020-12-30T22:33:13 < antto> what was the loicens of this laks thing?
2020-12-30T22:33:26 < qyx> gpl v4
2020-12-30T22:33:31 < antto> i'd avoid the name "coro" btw
2020-12-30T22:33:53 < antto> it'd be unfortunate for websearch
2020-12-30T22:34:03 < qyx> lol
2020-12-30T22:34:39 < antto> i'm about to write some codez for this scary SERCOM
2020-12-30T22:38:52 < Steffanx> Don't die antto 
2020-12-30T22:38:56 < Steffanx> Because scary it is
2020-12-30T22:39:00 < Steffanx> and deadly
2020-12-30T22:40:02 < Steffanx> "coro" is just a module inside laks is how so.. who would google just coro, antto ?
2020-12-30T22:40:14 < Steffanx> Also laks is so great, no one has to google
2020-12-30T22:40:38 < antto> i'm not okay with gpl
2020-12-30T22:40:51 < antto> ..for this particular sh*t i'm trying to do
2020-12-30T22:41:19 < Steffanx> its not GPL.
2020-12-30T22:41:52 < Steffanx> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/COPYING more like BSD
2020-12-30T22:42:13 < Steffanx> you got trolled antto  
2020-12-30T22:42:32 < antto> how is that possible
2020-12-30T22:42:37 < antto> i feel betrayed
2020-12-30T22:42:57 < antto> <dramatic_piano.mid>
2020-12-30T22:44:12 < antto> wait i think i'm mixing this up with opencm3 or what was it
2020-12-30T22:44:30 < antto> this laks thing is for stm32 tho
2020-12-30T22:44:54 < zyp> antto, BSD-2-Clause
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2020-12-30T22:50:40 < zyp> antto, and it's not really limited to stm32 or even cortex-m for that matter, it's just that support is limited to what I've had use for so far, and I tend to stick to stm32 :)
2020-12-30T22:51:03 < antto> no fancy readme anywhere?
2020-12-30T22:51:45 < zyp> no, but there's a bunch of toy projects in the branches here: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks_demo
2020-12-30T22:52:14 < zyp> and two actual projects here: https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/ https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/
2020-12-30T22:55:04 < antto> but for now i'm stuck with the generated code coz i ain't brave enough to toss it and start from zero.. the generated code at least seems to initialize all the clocks i need (many) so i'm gonna try to work around it
2020-12-30T23:03:49 < Steffanx> love SAMwhatever clock system?
2020-12-30T23:05:40 < Steffanx> *lovely
2020-12-30T23:07:56 < zyp> heh, I just looked at the memory footprint of my coro sandbox project
2020-12-30T23:08:22 < zyp> it's consuming close to 36k of flash and 4k of ram
2020-12-30T23:08:49 < zyp> I think most of that might be printf and friends though
2020-12-30T23:08:52 < zyp> at least I hope so :)
2020-12-30T23:11:22 < antto> Steffanx, i have no opinion about it, i just need a pile of different clocks here coz there's audio, midi, ADCs, USB, USARTs, SPI ...
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2020-12-30T23:14:54 < Steffanx> You used atmel studio for it antto ?
2020-12-30T23:15:12 < Steffanx> The most wonderful tool, that makes you think you work offline, but actually its a website?
2020-12-30T23:15:26 < Steffanx> i mean, the configuration tool.
2020-12-30T23:15:49 < antto> no bruh
2020-12-30T23:16:05 < Steffanx> Good, good
2020-12-30T23:16:15 < antto> atmel studio is M$VS shizzle IDE crap, it runz on crapdows, i do have it at $job
2020-12-30T23:16:36 < antto> it makes me vomit VIOLENTLY
2020-12-30T23:16:41 < Steffanx> Try the latest mplab
2020-12-30T23:16:46 < antto> no
2020-12-30T23:16:54 < Steffanx> Im glad you think that way
2020-12-30T23:16:59 < antto> i hate that sh*t as well
2020-12-30T23:17:09 < karlp> mplabx is neatbeans rebadge right?
2020-12-30T23:17:14 < antto> i used atmel.start
2020-12-30T23:17:21 < antto> which is a website thing
2020-12-30T23:17:46 < antto> yes, mplabx is garbage written in java
2020-12-30T23:18:15 < antto> karlp, netbeans
2020-12-30T23:18:23 < antto> there's NOTHING "neat" about that sh*t
2020-12-30T23:18:58 < antto> maybe a "failed to download netbeans.msi: 404" would be something "neat" about it
2020-12-30T23:19:39 < Thorn> нетbeans
2020-12-30T23:20:05 < Steffanx> Yeah it is, karlp 
2020-12-30T23:20:34 < Steffanx> You start to sound like mr D. is that really what you are after, mr antto ?
2020-12-30T23:20:36 < zyp> oh, yeah, _vfprintf_r alone is 7k, and apparently it's pulling in a bunch of double support functions and shit
2020-12-30T23:20:52 < antto> funky
2020-12-30T23:20:56 < antto> Steffanx, mr who?
2020-12-30T23:21:06 < Steffanx> d.o.n.g.s.
2020-12-30T23:21:15 < antto> in what way?
2020-12-30T23:21:17 < zyp> malloc is also big though
2020-12-30T23:21:22 < antto> what am i after?
2020-12-30T23:21:33 < Steffanx> nevermind
2020-12-30T23:26:16 < zyp> okay, linking with --specs=nano.specs brought everything down to 8k flash and a bit over 1k ram
2020-12-30T23:27:04 < antto> i want reference declarations with address :~(
2020-12-30T23:27:18 < zyp> antto, you want what?
2020-12-30T23:27:32 < antto> i can do that on avrgcc but not here
2020-12-30T23:27:41 < zyp> ah, for defining regs?
2020-12-30T23:28:21 < antto> PORT_t& PORTA __attribute__((address (0x0000620)));
2020-12-30T23:28:29 < antto> this kind of shizzle
2020-12-30T23:28:35 < zyp> ah
2020-12-30T23:28:54 < antto> then PORTA is usable as template argument
2020-12-30T23:29:02 < zyp> I do it like this: PORT_t& PORTA = *(PORT_t*)0x0000620;
2020-12-30T23:29:17 < antto> that doesn't wurk
2020-12-30T23:29:21 < zyp> works for me
2020-12-30T23:29:34 < antto> toss it into a template that wants PORT_t&
2020-12-30T23:29:57 < zyp> fair, I don't do that
2020-12-30T23:30:08 < zyp> what benefit do you get by doing that?
2020-12-30T23:30:59 < antto> besides that it looks nicer and it's a reference - no idea
2020-12-30T23:31:12 < zyp> what looks nicer?
2020-12-30T23:31:36 < zyp> I don't understand why you would want to pass in a register block as a template argument
2020-12-30T23:31:39 < antto> port.bluh vs port->bluh or *port.bluh
2020-12-30T23:31:54 < zyp> huh?
2020-12-30T23:32:28 < zyp> I'm not following, can you pastebin an example or something
2020-12-30T23:32:46 < antto> nothing for arm
2020-12-30T23:33:05 < zyp> doesn't matter, I just want to understand what you're doing
2020-12-30T23:35:44 < antto> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/8bd80ee3/
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2020-12-31T00:17:27 < karlp> I feel like c++ people spend more time wokring out how to make templats do things they think would be cooler than actually developing applications....
2020-12-31T00:17:41 < invzim> merry christmas & happy new year peoples
2020-12-31T00:19:06 < invzim> karlp: I feel that way about Java developers & frameworks
2020-12-31T00:19:55 < karlp> maybe I never chatted to java people, just worked with it :)
2020-12-31T00:20:51 < zyp> karlp, if that were the case, laks would be less of a pile of mess than what it is :)
2020-12-31T00:21:52 < karlp> I'm teasing, it's ok.
2020-12-31T00:22:07 < antto> karlp, it's not about being kewl
2020-12-31T00:22:14 < invzim> how hard will it be to make super-duper stable 12vdc from ~17vac, is it a rabbit-hole or just chuck caps at it?
2020-12-31T00:22:55 < antto> with a regulator?
2020-12-31T00:22:57 < zyp> rectify and regulate?
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2020-12-31T00:23:28 < invzim> rectify for sure, possibly regulate
2020-12-31T00:23:47 < zyp> you're not gonna get a stable 12V without regulating :)
2020-12-31T00:24:15 < invzim> it's for audio, so doesn't really need to be 12.000V, but whatever it is should be stable
2020-12-31T00:24:30 < antto> karlp, basically, on one hand i don't wanna have alien code.. the code that comes from device headers is alien like, you gotta reat the datasheets to figure out wut each thing's doing or wut it means
2020-12-31T00:24:38 < zyp> you're not gonna get a stable anything without regulating
2020-12-31T00:24:59 < antto> so i'd rather read that sh*t once, write my fancy template or whatever, and then only deal with my chunk of code
2020-12-31T00:25:06 < invzim> superquick switcher?
2020-12-31T00:25:51 < karlp> oh noes, better wach out for the sound stage...
2020-12-31T00:26:06 < zyp> invzim, plain rectified AC is a bunch of peaks, add caps and you'll get them charged to peak voltage during peaks and being discharged in between by your load
2020-12-31T00:26:27 < zyp> add a regulator to that and you'll get a nice stable voltage out
2020-12-31T00:27:00 < zyp> if low noise is priority one, I guess use a linear reg
2020-12-31T00:27:15 < karlp> audiophools love linear regs
2020-12-31T00:27:24 < karlp> almost as much as SLA batteries
2020-12-31T00:27:31 < antto> SLA?
2020-12-31T00:27:33 < zyp> otherwise idk :)
2020-12-31T00:27:43 < zyp> I prefer avoiding power design
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2020-12-31T00:28:11 < invzim> going to be a digital class-d job, so the audiophools are going to hate it regardless :)
2020-12-31T00:28:37 < zyp> where's the AC from anyway?
2020-12-31T00:28:49 < invzim> a transformer :)
2020-12-31T00:28:58 < antto> bzzzz
2020-12-31T00:29:38 < zyp> why bother with a transformer rather than just an AC/DC SMPS directly from 230V?
2020-12-31T00:29:48 < antto> put a LM7812 and feed it with a step-down reg ;P~
2020-12-31T00:29:53 < invzim> playing with the idea of making a drop-in replacement for this, https://www.arcade-projects.com/attachments/img_20180201_221936329-jpg.8190/
2020-12-31T00:30:27 < Streaker> LM3886?
2020-12-31T00:30:28 < antto> wot's that shizzle
2020-12-31T00:30:48 < invzim> sega arcade cab audio amp
2020-12-31T00:30:49 < zyp> looks like a sound amp for arcade cabinets
2020-12-31T00:30:56 < antto> meh
2020-12-31T00:31:03 < antto> slap just a switching reg
2020-12-31T00:31:29 < antto> put extra LC lowpass after it if ya care bout noise
2020-12-31T00:31:51 < antto> does that thing have a CRT screen?
2020-12-31T00:31:58 < invzim> indeed
2020-12-31T00:32:05 < antto> then forget bout the noise ;P~
2020-12-31T00:32:31 < invzim> I have had two of those go bad on me, amp IC is EOL ages ago
2020-12-31T00:32:55 < invzim> just got an AC lab supply so I can have a peek at it on my desk
2020-12-31T00:33:21 < zyp> antto, just looked at your code, why not just make port/pin constructor arguments instead of template arguments?
2020-12-31T00:34:12 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/gpio/gpio.h#n29 <- I'm doing something very similar here
2020-12-31T00:35:11 < zyp> as long as the call is getting inlined and constant folded anyway, there shouldn't be a difference in overhead
2020-12-31T00:35:42 < antto> i'd have to have a member of that type then
2020-12-31T00:36:41 < zyp> and if it's not getting inlined, you'd end up with a copy of each function for every pin, which is just as awful than a bunch of instances storing a reference
2020-12-31T00:36:44 < antto> i haven't eyeballed it carefully but i think my Pin object has no data members
2020-12-31T00:36:49 < antto> so sizeof() would be 0
2020-12-31T00:37:09 < zyp> yes, except I don't think sizeof() can be 0
2020-12-31T00:37:33 < antto> hm
2020-12-31T00:37:54 < antto> true, if i make an array of pins they can't all be on the same address ;P~
2020-12-31T00:38:01 < zyp> IIRC there's some rules saying every separate instance needs a distinct address or something like that
2020-12-31T00:38:20 < antto> maybe sizeof() would be 1 then
2020-12-31T00:38:35 < zyp> probably
2020-12-31T00:38:44 < antto> if i have a pointer to a port in it, it's gonna be 2 or 3
2020-12-31T00:38:52 < antto> i'm not 100% sure
2020-12-31T00:38:59 < zyp> sizeof mine are 8
2020-12-31T00:39:21 < antto> this code is for xmega.. so 8bit, i've tried to not waste space
2020-12-31T00:39:28 < zyp> but it doesn't matter since they are not supposed to be emitted anyway
2020-12-31T00:39:43 < antto> i declare them in global scope
2020-12-31T00:39:56 < zyp> yeah?
2020-12-31T00:40:24 < antto> anyway, that code wurkz and i'm fine with it.. i use similar stuff at $job
2020-12-31T00:40:36 < antto> i can't do it the same way on arm gcc tho
2020-12-31T00:40:37 < zyp> I mean, the compiler emits them, but as long as every use gets constant folded, there won't be anything referencing the symbols, so the linker should throw them out
2020-12-31T00:40:45 < antto> cuz no __attribute__ address
2020-12-31T00:41:09 < zyp> just use my pattern :)
2020-12-31T00:41:21 < antto> it confuses me ;P~
2020-12-31T00:43:11 < antto> i also have the feeling you aren't using any of the $vendor or $arm code
2020-12-31T00:43:51 < t4nk_freenode> darnit!.. I aint able to use arm-none-eabi-whatever myself :|
2020-12-31T00:44:02 < antto> u wot
2020-12-31T00:44:03 < zyp> antto, https://godbolt.org/z/jhe8Yc
2020-12-31T00:44:16 < t4nk_freenode> can't seem to get it installed properly in gentoo
2020-12-31T00:44:35 < antto> no problem on debian
2020-12-31T00:45:17 < zyp> antto, you see the REGS symbol gets emitted, but the function doesn't reference it, the function just grabs it from its constant pool
2020-12-31T00:45:30 < t4nk_freenode> I'm probably messing up c++ support for it somehow
2020-12-31T00:45:56 < t4nk_freenode> can't get arm-none-eabi-g++ to emerge
2020-12-31T00:46:18 < t4nk_freenode> as an example, antto .. https://github.com/trilader/stm32-ps2-usb-converter
2020-12-31T00:47:11 < antto> to "emerge" ?!
2020-12-31T00:47:13 < t4nk_freenode> I don't think there's a problem with the code, but I'm running inti
2020-12-31T00:47:14 < t4nk_freenode> unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"'
2020-12-31T00:47:25 < t4nk_freenode> that may be misleading
2020-12-31T00:47:55 < t4nk_freenode> yes, antto, emerge.. that's how we call compiling/installing packages in gentoo
2020-12-31T00:48:40 < antto> zyp, that just declares a REG_t reference via reinterpret_cast<>ing a pointer, this is fine except such references aren't usable as template arg due to the "pointer" part
2020-12-31T00:48:49 < t4nk_freenode> I may just need a good 'crossdev' tutorial, don't think I understand it very much
2020-12-31T00:49:06 < antto> otherwise, it declares the existance of a REG_t without causing any constructors for it..
2020-12-31T00:49:10 < antto> a ghost object
2020-12-31T00:50:03 < zyp> one of my points is that you don't need a template argument :)
2020-12-31T00:50:33 < antto> well, on this arm shizzle i could waste some RAM
2020-12-31T00:50:38 < zyp> here's something closer to what you wanna do: https://godbolt.org/z/33qnPG
2020-12-31T00:50:40 < antto> with member pointers
2020-12-31T00:50:48 < zyp> still getting constant folded and using no ram
2020-12-31T00:51:22 < antto> zyp, i'd prefer to assume the worst case, cuz i'm not gonna be checking everything all the time, i don't speak ASM
2020-12-31T00:51:44 < antto> but i got a pile of RAM on this thing so it's gud
2020-12-31T00:52:25 < antto> 256K ram, noice
2020-12-31T00:53:11 < antto> uh, bitshifting masks for pins?!
2020-12-31T00:53:23 < antto> that looks very atmega-ish
2020-12-31T00:54:24 < antto> i don't like having functions like "set_this_particular_pin_high()"
2020-12-31T00:54:48 < antto> i'd rather have a pin object named "LED1" and do LED1.on(); LED1.toggle(); etc..
2020-12-31T00:55:11 < zyp> well, duh, it's an example
2020-12-31T00:55:38 < antto> i need to tackle the scary SERCOM
2020-12-31T00:56:11 < Steffanx> t4nk_freenode: what about stop using gentoo?
2020-12-31T00:56:19 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-12-31T00:56:24 < antto> t4nk_freenode, did you try to install those things?
2020-12-31T00:56:47 < antto> did you check if they wurk? arm-none-eabi-gcc -v
2020-12-31T00:56:55 < qyx> wat gentoo in 2020
2020-12-31T00:57:01 < t4nk_freenode> I _think_ I did, antto, but obviously I'm missing sth
2020-12-31T00:57:07 < qyx> it is like using total commander
2020-12-31T00:57:34 < antto> bruh get debian stable with lxde or sumfin
2020-12-31T00:57:38 < zyp> antto, still same assembly: https://godbolt.org/z/1PYG6v
2020-12-31T00:57:40 < t4nk_freenode> please stop, qyx, ... your powerful argumentation is melting my heart ;)
2020-12-31T00:58:04 < qyx> oh
2020-12-31T00:58:16 < t4nk_freenode> how could I have been so blind ;)
2020-12-31T00:58:18 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vr7qZXen1FmRKaOKb9S6GPMl7emCDa2o/view?usp=sharing I found the ores
2020-12-31T00:58:50 < antto> dafuq r u doing kakim0r?
2020-12-31T00:59:31 < kakium69> trying to take cams off
2020-12-31T01:00:17 < kakium69> but fan wheel bracket has hex bolts
2020-12-31T01:00:33 < zyp> unrelated compiler experiments: std::atomic actually works and produces sane code: https://godbolt.org/z/13oWr6
2020-12-31T01:00:46 < zyp> complete with barriers and everything
2020-12-31T01:01:09 < Steffanx> Heh the most interesting difference is the difference between avr gcc 5.4.0 and 9.2.0
2020-12-31T01:01:34 < antto> huh, since when does arm gcc have <atomic> ?!
2020-12-31T01:01:56 < t4nk_freenode> antto, https://dpaste.com/472VWWP4C
2020-12-31T01:01:56 < zyp> dunno
2020-12-31T01:03:13 < zyp> antto, since gcc 7, judging by godbolt
2020-12-31T01:04:12 < antto> t4nk_freenode, i see --enable-languages=c
2020-12-31T01:04:16 < antto> don't see C++
2020-12-31T01:04:22 < t4nk_freenode> mmm
2020-12-31T01:04:48 < zyp> ah, no, that was just the atomic_uint32_t alias
2020-12-31T01:04:50 < Steffanx> poor antto , avr-gcc 9.2.0 doesnt even have it
2020-12-31T01:05:08 < Steffanx> nevermind
2020-12-31T01:05:09 < Steffanx> lol
2020-12-31T01:05:31 < antto> Steffanx, i'm using avrgcc 7.3.0 still
2020-12-31T01:05:37 < zyp> looks like even the oldest arm gcc on godbolt (4.5) has <atomic>, but it issues calls to stubs that probably doesn't exist
2020-12-31T01:05:42 < qyx> zyp: wtf https://scontent.fbts3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/134046361_3589123044517094_3717924648651971619_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HZM4FjXlLCEAX-lLR5g&_nc_ht=scontent.fbts3-1.fna&oh=8bd78f449f8f151813f334c5fc6b1853&oe=60134A87
2020-12-31T01:05:49 < Steffanx> nah that website only has 9.2.0 and then 5.something
2020-12-31T01:06:05 < Steffanx> RIP zyp 
2020-12-31T01:06:05 < zyp> 5.4 is the first one that issues ldrex/strex
2020-12-31T01:06:20 < zyp> qyx, yeah, it's been over the news all day
2020-12-31T01:06:20 < qyx> are you connected fromt he hole
2020-12-31T01:06:57 < zyp> pretty far away from here, and my house is not sitting on quick clay
2020-12-31T01:07:59 < antto> t4nk_freenode, mine says --enable-languages=c,c++,lto
2020-12-31T01:08:36 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, antto, I went and searched and now I'm on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_Handbook/General/Creating_a_cross-compiler
2020-12-31T01:08:50 < antto> "creating" x_x
2020-12-31T01:08:58 < t4nk_freenode> inventing!
2020-12-31T01:08:59 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2020-12-31T01:09:26 < t4nk_freenode> they should change it to how the hell to use the darned thing!
2020-12-31T01:10:13 < antto> is there any particular reason you went for gentoo?
2020-12-31T01:10:20 < t4nk_freenode> I think so
2020-12-31T01:10:44 < t4nk_freenode> and I like it
2020-12-31T01:11:01 < antto> oh well
2020-12-31T01:11:14 < t4nk_freenode> apart from the regular issues
2020-12-31T01:11:34 < t4nk_freenode> but you'll learn to tackle them better as you go along ;)
2020-12-31T01:11:40 < zyp> latest news says there's ten people not accounted for at the moment, so far no reported casualties
2020-12-31T01:11:57 < antto> wut's that hole there?
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2020-12-31T01:12:41 < zyp> quick clay landslide
2020-12-31T01:13:32 < antto> :/
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2020-12-31T01:46:53 < kakium69> there is video in tubes
2020-12-31T01:48:15 < kakium69> where whole village slides into sea or lake or fjorn
2020-12-31T01:49:06 < kakium69> I think it started from quite small landslide
2020-12-31T01:49:38 < antto> i'm sure it started from a single atom ;P~
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2020-12-31T01:51:20 < mawk> >avr
2020-12-31T01:51:24 < mawk> why do this Steffanx 
2020-12-31T01:51:38 < Steffanx> why do what mr mawk ?
2020-12-31T01:51:44 < mawk> avr
2020-12-31T01:51:51 < Steffanx> idk, mr antto  is into AVR
2020-12-31T01:52:17 < Steffanx> and mcu wise AVR isnt THAT bad, maybe a little expensive (it used to be) but.. not tooo bad.
2020-12-31T01:52:33 < antto> i'm into xmega
2020-12-31T01:52:45 < Steffanx> newer AVRs changed quite a bit as well.
2020-12-31T01:52:58 < antto> newer AVRs are amputated xmegas
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2020-12-31T01:53:21 < kakium69> avr is the bestest
2020-12-31T01:53:45 < antto> xmega is the bestest 8bit
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2020-12-31T01:54:14 < mawk> you swore allegience to STM32 Steffanx 
2020-12-31T01:54:19 < mawk> you cannot say good things about anything else
2020-12-31T01:54:27 < Steffanx> but i keep faithful to my roots mawk 
2020-12-31T01:54:30 < antto> std::cout << sizeof(Laurenceb) << "\n";
2020-12-31T01:54:32 < mawk> I hope
2020-12-31T01:54:33 < Steffanx> as well.
2020-12-31T01:54:37 < mawk> antto: 65536
2020-12-31T01:54:43 < Steffanx> ##stm32 has its roots in #avr mawk 
2020-12-31T01:54:45 < antto> bruh, he thicc
2020-12-31T01:54:47 < mawk> noooooooooo
2020-12-31T01:54:56 < mawk> is it time for a rail Steffanx ?
2020-12-31T01:54:58 < mawk> I think it is
2020-12-31T01:55:02 < mawk> let me clear my nose first
2020-12-31T01:55:11 < mawk> I ran out of tissues though
2020-12-31T01:55:14 < Steffanx> no thanks
2020-12-31T01:55:24 < mawk> yes yes
2020-12-31T01:55:39 < mawk> I fixed hairdryer of roommate
2020-12-31T01:55:56 < mawk> a wire acted as an unexpected fuse when the dryer was on covered and couldn't cool itself down
2020-12-31T01:56:03 < mawk> so I added a bunch of solder to it and it's working again
2020-12-31T01:56:13 < mawk> repairability 20/20
2020-12-31T01:56:19 < mawk> wouldn't be like that with a recent product I think
2020-12-31T02:00:45 < mawk> here just remove 4 screws, a bunch of tape, and the thing is fully disassembled
2020-12-31T02:03:22 < mawk> normally there is a bimetallic switch to shut it off when it's too hot, but it didn't trip
2020-12-31T02:03:31 < mawk> the thing is maybe 30 years old
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2020-12-31T02:27:17 < Steffanx> Made in France?
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2020-12-31T04:19:37 < antto> Fade in Mrance
2020-12-31T04:38:29 < t4nk_freenode> can I have this dance?
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2020-12-31T09:00:37 < t4nk_freenode> bleh, antto ... turns out I was trying to compile some outdated code ;)
2020-12-31T09:01:13 < t4nk_freenode> well, I still haven't installed arm-none-eabi-g++ the proper way, but I did manage to Uninstall it ;)
2020-12-31T09:01:41 < t4nk_freenode> and I just downloaded the toolchain instead of compiling it
2020-12-31T09:01:50 < t4nk_freenode> at least it works.
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2020-12-31T12:23:41 < Thorn> https://hackaday.com/2020/12/29/new-part-day-sd-nand-are-surface-mount-chips-that-work-like-an-sd-card/
2020-12-31T12:29:36 < karlp> mawk: why not just not try and run the hairdryer while it's covered up?
2020-12-31T12:30:20 < mawk> because it had weird screw heads and I broke my only compatible screwdriver putting it back together again
2020-12-31T12:30:26 < mawk> so if it fails again I can't fix it
2020-12-31T12:30:58 < mawk> why is that more useful than plain flash Thorn ?
2020-12-31T12:31:24 < Thorn> what plain flash? parallel nand?
2020-12-31T12:32:47 < mawk> spi for instance
2020-12-31T12:33:19 < Thorn> spi nor is only up to a few MB
2020-12-31T12:33:20 < karlp> mawk: um.. you mean, it doesn't work when it's in it's own case?!
2020-12-31T12:33:43 < karlp> I read it as "we put a towel over it, and it got hot and wouldn't cool down, so I 'fixed'  it, so we could increase our fire danger some more"
2020-12-31T12:33:54 < mawk> ah lol no
2020-12-31T12:34:01 < Thorn> spi nand is rare, 128MB max and not properly supported by drivers
2020-12-31T12:34:02 < mawk> it would break again if we did it again
2020-12-31T12:34:16 < mawk> I just resoldered the involuntary fuse back
2020-12-31T12:34:26 < mawk> and told the woman to stop making it heat up too much
2020-12-31T12:34:33 < mawk> ah I see Thorn 
2020-12-31T12:34:52 < qyx> are they reinventing emmc?
2020-12-31T12:35:09 < qyx> in a more maker friendly package?
2020-12-31T12:39:46 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2020-12-31T12:43:09 < Thorn> seems much slower than emmc though
2020-12-31T12:47:32 < karlp> it's like 10 year old emmc, stuck in 1 bit mode, using old emmc4 or omething that still allowed spi mode?
2020-12-31T12:47:37 < karlp> can't see any fucking point
2020-12-31T12:56:11 < Thorn> karlp it does support 4 bit
2020-12-31T13:04:05 < qyx> I would say the reasoning is the same as for DRAM/PSRAM in SOIC8
2020-12-31T13:05:11 < qyx> can I haz big memory and solder it by hand
2020-12-31T13:05:30 < qyx> to my arduino..
2020-12-31T13:21:57 < Thorn> mawk https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/58661/nrf52840-reset-pin-stuck-at-low
2020-12-31T13:22:32 < Thorn> this is where I saw "1. Pulled up the RESET pin to 3.3V". not sure about the original source 
2020-12-31T13:25:04 < zyp> guess it could be a point if you need a gigabyte of storage and only got like spi
2020-12-31T13:26:13 < mawk> very strange Thorn 
2020-12-31T13:26:23 < mawk> maybe it's a silicon bug in the pinreset function
2020-12-31T13:29:27 < zyp> hmm
2020-12-31T13:30:06 < zyp> those SD chips are in the same packages as you can get nor flash in, but they are not pinout compatible
2020-12-31T13:30:25 < zyp> could have been useful to get more memory into an existing design
2020-12-31T13:40:05 < mawk> on ##math there is a boy I used to school some years ago
2020-12-31T13:40:12 < mawk> now he's much more talented than me
2020-12-31T13:40:17 < mawk> and he's answering my questions lol
2020-12-31T13:40:43 < Thorn> does he know Clifford algebra?
2020-12-31T13:40:46 < mawk> he did the same school as I did, but went further because he wasn't getting high everyday
2020-12-31T13:40:48 < mawk> probably
2020-12-31T13:40:56 < mawk> I looked into it a bit too, cool stuff
2020-12-31T13:56:06 < mawk> I'm trying to get a small oled screen working, but I don't even know what datasheet I should be looking at
2020-12-31T13:56:16 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/DollaTek-Module-Broches-Interface-Arduino/dp/B07QJW7Z4C
2020-12-31T13:56:18 < mawk> it's this
2020-12-31T13:56:25 < mawk> I want to verify it has proper screen size before soldering it to my ecigarette
2020-12-31T13:57:10 < mawk> I suspect this is the chip: https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/a/af/SSD1306-Revision_1.1.pdf
2020-12-31T13:57:16 < mawk> but given that nothing I do turns the screen on, I don't know
2020-12-31T13:57:36 < mawk> I get a response when I read the status register, so I assume it's doing something
2020-12-31T13:58:43 < mawk> at the end of the datasheet there is example sequence to turn on the display, I copied that verbatim
2020-12-31T13:59:40 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/Lr1FdEkg.c this is code
2020-12-31T13:59:53 < mawk> all commands work fine, then I read status register and it says "display off"
2020-12-31T14:03:27 < mawk> maybe I need to properly reset the screen, so tie it to a gpio or something
2020-12-31T14:04:31 < mawk> https://www.lcd-module.com/fileadmin/eng/pdf/grafik/W096016-XA.pdf this has a sequence of things to do which is kinda the same as I did
2020-12-31T14:09:51 < karlp> zyp: how do you get newer compilers in godbolt? mine only has up to 7.2 https://godbolt.org/z/eocEfa
2020-12-31T14:10:06 < karlp> (trying to look at https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/issues/1289 )
2020-12-31T14:10:52 < karlp> zyp: also, yeah, I wold have understood those things a shit load more if they were same form/piout as spi-nor, but thye'r eweird lga8, fucking useless
2020-12-31T14:11:17 < karlp> you'd have to _design_ for that part
2020-12-31T14:12:58 < zyp> huh, wat
2020-12-31T14:13:31 < karlp> maybe it's c/ c++?
2020-12-31T14:13:41 < zyp> ah, probably
2020-12-31T14:14:40 < zyp> yeah, switching to C++ gets you 9.2.1 as newest
2020-12-31T14:15:40 < karlp> guessI'm gonna have to download this 10.2 shis.
2020-12-31T14:16:17 < zyp> newest gae is 10.2
2020-12-31T14:19:28 < PaulFertser> mawk: looks like the typical I2C 96x16 "arduino" oled.
2020-12-31T14:20:18 < PaulFertser> mawk: are you also reading the datasheet for the controller it uses? Is that SSD1307?
2020-12-31T14:20:18 < zyp> karlp, I tried compiling your source locally and it turns into the exact same assembly as your 7.2.1 godbolt
2020-12-31T14:21:02 < mawk> SSD1306 PaulFertser apparently
2020-12-31T14:22:05 < PaulFertser> mawk: try this sequence: https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/blob/master/workspace/TS100/Core/Drivers/OLED.cpp#L35
2020-12-31T14:22:07 < mawk> maybe it's 1307 but it looks like the same interface
2020-12-31T14:22:10 < mawk> thanks
2020-12-31T14:22:39 < PaulFertser> Should turn it on to show garbage from uninitialised ram.
2020-12-31T14:23:13 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-31T14:25:36 < mawk> 1306 and 1307 datahseets are almost identical
2020-12-31T14:25:39 < mawk> same startup sequence
2020-12-31T14:27:09 < PaulFertser> mawk: I've seen this code working with a display that looks very similar to yours: https://github.com/nicolai86/ganymede/blob/master/oled.c#L199
2020-12-31T14:28:15 < PaulFertser> But it was 128x32
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2020-12-31T14:28:48 < mawk> yeah there are probably constants to change
2020-12-31T14:28:50 < PaulFertser> Same SSD1306 though
2020-12-31T14:29:18 < mawk> yeah
2020-12-31T14:29:32 < mawk> maybe I should prefix all my comands with 0x00 to say it's commands
2020-12-31T14:29:38 < mawk> but I thought the HAL I2C lib was doing it
2020-12-31T14:31:14 < PaulFertser> Why would it be adding anything on its own?
2020-12-31T14:31:26 < zyp> hmm
2020-12-31T14:31:58 < mawk> I thought it's part of i2c protocol
2020-12-31T14:32:08 < mawk> since it's listed in the datasheet with talks about the address and so on
2020-12-31T14:32:30 < zyp> riscv-gcc also produces sane code for std::atomic as long as -march includes the a-set
2020-12-31T14:32:32 < mawk> HAL i2c lib has "transmit command" and "write memory", same distinction as in the datasheet
2020-12-31T14:32:51 < zyp> otherwise it issues __atomic_*-calls
2020-12-31T14:33:19 < PaulFertser> mawk: I see. Wasn't aware there's a special API for that.
2020-12-31T14:40:37 < mawk> ah it worked
2020-12-31T14:40:41 < mawk> I prefixed all the commands with 0x00
2020-12-31T14:40:43 < mawk> now it's on
2020-12-31T14:41:36 < PaulFertser> Hah, so that hal api is BS
2020-12-31T14:46:46 < mawk> I was suspecting the screen was smaller than expected for the format, and it is
2020-12-31T14:47:00 < mawk> so I can still solder it in the ecig and tweak the ecig firmware to have smaller display mayb
2020-12-31T14:47:03 < mawk> it's opensource
2020-12-31T14:48:14 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/6x0GJB6.jpg
2020-12-31T14:48:16 < mawk> small
2020-12-31T14:49:08 < PaulFertser> mawk: are you sure you need 96x16 and not 128x32 ?
2020-12-31T14:49:36 < mawk> I measured the thing with a ruler and it was 0.69", so I put that in amazon and bought the only item available
2020-12-31T14:49:40 < mawk> but I probably need bigger eys
2020-12-31T14:50:13 < mawk> at least it's this form factor I need for sure, but with more pixels
2020-12-31T14:51:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: https://aliexpress.ru/item/32672229793.html so yes, the usual thing is 0.91"
2020-12-31T14:52:23 < mawk> I'll measure again the one from the ecig
2020-12-31T14:52:25 < mawk> with an inch ruler
2020-12-31T14:52:44 < mawk> yeah I can buy it on ali I guess
2020-12-31T14:52:49 < mawk> but I'm not a patient man
2020-12-31T14:52:57 < mawk> it's amazon prime same day delivery or nothing
2020-12-31T14:54:30 < mawk> 0.91" is the physical screen size right? not the display diagonal
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2020-12-31T14:57:00 < PaulFertser> Physical diagonal is about 27 mm.
2020-12-31T14:57:31 < PaulFertser> So I guess 0.91 is the display area.
2020-12-31T14:57:37 < mawk> ah
2020-12-31T14:57:44 < mawk> I shoul've noted down the calculations
2020-12-31T14:57:45 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/438360283514404875/794090691981606912/Forthelulz_e6cfb5_8171931.png do you know any potential candidate?
2020-12-31T14:58:38 < mawk> lol
2020-12-31T15:01:52 < Steffanx> I vote for mawk
2020-12-31T15:02:22 < Steffanx> I only know skyrim from its memes
2020-12-31T15:02:33 < Steffanx> Is it any good?
2020-12-31T15:02:46 < mawk> yes
2020-12-31T15:02:52 < mawk> it's the only game I played a lot
2020-12-31T15:02:58 < mawk> apart from mario bros on gba
2020-12-31T15:03:12 < mawk> otherwise I hate games
2020-12-31T15:03:34 < mawk> except super hexagon, that's a cool game to play when hitting some speed
2020-12-31T15:03:40 < mawk> I have good records
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2020-12-31T15:03:55 < mawk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSdTP_q7g4
2020-12-31T15:03:57 < mawk> watch this Steffanx 
2020-12-31T15:04:04 < mawk> I did 70 seconds I think
2020-12-31T15:04:43 < Steffanx> Need drugs for that. What do you advice?
2020-12-31T15:06:11 < mawk> something that increases reflex
2020-12-31T15:34:27 < mawk> my heart hurts
2020-12-31T15:34:39 < mawk> since a week or so, pulsatile pain at each heartbeat
2020-12-31T15:34:43 < mawk> am I dying Steffanx ?
2020-12-31T15:34:48 < mawk> maybe I should call the doctor
2020-12-31T15:41:49 < Steffanx> COVID-19 
2020-12-31T15:42:36 < Steffanx> Youre heart broken because cracki, mawk 
2020-12-31T15:42:39 < mawk> lol
2020-12-31T15:42:57 < antto> debug it with a scope
2020-12-31T15:43:43 < mawk> my heart?
2020-12-31T15:44:55 < mawk> 2 days ago I tried to overdose but it didn't work
2020-12-31T15:45:02 < mawk> I was highly disappointed
2020-12-31T15:47:03 < Steffanx> Don't die mawk.
2020-12-31T15:59:50 < Thorn> how can you have UDB 3.0 5Gbps with 2.0 type A connectors? https://aliexpress.com/item/4001153860745.html
2020-12-31T16:00:37 < mawk> it's two choices Thorn 
2020-12-31T16:00:41 < mawk> usb 2 or 3
2020-12-31T16:00:49 < mawk> click on the 3 version
2020-12-31T16:01:47 < Thorn> oh wait I thought 3.0 A is also this weird double connector, looks like it isn't
2020-12-31T16:08:22 < Thorn> I still don't see any extra superspeed contacts there
2020-12-31T16:21:14 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/uuupah/pain27
2020-12-31T16:23:21 < antto> dafuq(ue) is that
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2020-12-31T16:29:18 < aandrew> well they're right, it is pretty much usless
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2020-12-31T17:14:06 < jadew> anyone from next year in here?
2020-12-31T17:15:57 < antto> hold your delorean, marty
2020-12-31T17:16:06 < Steffanx> Idk is dongs alive?
2020-12-31T17:16:23 < Ultrasauce> dongs still has 45 mins to go i think
2020-12-31T17:17:20 < Ultrasauce> no nevermind i cant do math
2020-12-31T17:19:41 < Steffanx> Happy new year Ultrasauce 
2020-12-31T17:20:13 < Ultrasauce> likewise
2020-12-31T17:39:56 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2020-12-31T18:01:27 -!- fluiD [~fluiD@unaffiliated/nn7] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-31T18:06:51 < Steffanx> Thanks.
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2020-12-31T19:05:49 < fenugrec> ah yes, the time has come to celebrate that arbitrary point on earth's trajectory around the sun
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2020-12-31T19:17:01 < Steffanx> Happy new year to you too fenugrec 
2020-12-31T19:22:49 -!- fc5dc9d4 [~quassel@p4fe9a42c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-31T19:38:17 < fenugrec> Thanks & happy calendar-reset-day to you too Steffanx
2020-12-31T20:07:11 < Steffanx> i like your enthusiasm fenugrec 
2020-12-31T20:15:16 < antto> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/3786ecc4/ ;P~
2020-12-31T20:16:15 < antto> some volatiles are not like the others
2020-12-31T20:26:09 < antto> wow, a sudden rain over here.. rivers in minutes
2020-12-31T20:26:14 < PaulFertser> I have to admit at times like this some part of me is still hoping for a christmas miracle of sorts, something impossible like citizens of russia finally stopping to support putin in his evil harmful ways and starting to live in peace with the others...
2020-12-31T20:30:43 < antto> wut has he done again?
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2020-12-31T20:31:27 < antto> tell him "Шшш, ей! владо! .. я са дръж малко ве!"
2020-12-31T20:31:34 < antto> in russian of course
2020-12-31T20:34:10 < PaulFertser> antto: trying to kill navalny was the last major thing I guess.
2020-12-31T20:35:03 < PaulFertser> antto: the problem is not that single person. The problem is in the majority of people living here. Delusional and stupid :/
2020-12-31T20:35:10 < jpa-> living next to russia, it would be scary if putin got switched out; who knows how crazy the next guy will be
2020-12-31T20:40:06 < PaulFertser> The changes are going to happen sooner or later. And later doesn't mean it'd be less scary.
2020-12-31T20:41:44 < jpa-> sure
2020-12-31T20:41:52 < jpa-> but more often => more risk
2020-12-31T20:43:52 < Steffanx> You didnt do your obligatory military service jpa- ?
2020-12-31T20:45:17 < jpa-> i lack the words in english for the alternative.. civil service? because i'm not uncivilized?
2020-12-31T20:46:20 < Steffanx> Yeah, but this means finland is indeed lost.
2020-12-31T20:46:48 < PaulFertser> jpa-: probably more often would mean less extremes, so less risk. Just like you have in the civilised world.
2020-12-31T20:47:40 < jpa-> PaulFertser: i don't think it will reduce the craziness, more like less corrupted leaders would lead to more frequent changes of leadership, but not the other way around
2020-12-31T20:47:45 < Steffanx> so is mr putin going to retire? Werent there stories he was sick?
2020-12-31T20:47:53 < jpa-> plenty of countries that go from dictator to dictator
2020-12-31T20:51:09 < Steffanx> or was all that "putin is sick"  fake news PaulFertser ?
2020-12-31T20:54:13 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: who knows, but I do not think any reputable source ever hinted at that.
2020-12-31T20:55:40 < PaulFertser> jpa-: periodic changes of leadership are naturally leading to competition, and so if lack of corruption is an essential public demand, they'll have to follow it to some extent to remain competitive.
2020-12-31T20:56:42 < jpa-> PaulFertser: sure; but if there is no demand for lack of corruption, and honest people trying to get into politics get killed, only the crooks are in line when putin kicks the bucket
2020-12-31T20:57:56 < PaulFertser> jpa-: agreed, so that's why my secret xmas wish is changing of the people mindsets
2020-12-31T20:58:05 < jpa-> :)
2020-12-31T21:00:46 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_selection_(politics)
2020-12-31T21:03:35 < fenugrec> "kakistocracy" is a word
2020-12-31T21:05:49 < Steffanx> Lack of corruption. Utopia? There is a lot of hidden corruption going on... everywhere.
2020-12-31T21:06:02 < qyx> changing of what?
2020-12-31T21:09:26 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I'm not talking about absolute lack. But there're certainly different degrees of it.
2020-12-31T21:13:20 < Steffanx> I was going to find you an english source of the "corruption" we have here going on at the moment. but i cannot find english source. The problem is no one takes responsibility for what happened. (story is too long to explain in a few sentences, but its BAAAD).
2020-12-31T21:13:59 < Steffanx> *an english source with an explanation about the "corruption"
2020-12-31T21:14:58 < qyx> oh corruption in .nl?
2020-12-31T21:15:11 < qyx> I though only we easteners have such things
2020-12-31T21:17:12 < mawk> is saleae logic analyzer any good?
2020-12-31T21:17:22 < mawk> and dso-8500 scope
2020-12-31T21:18:07 < Steffanx> No longer want my wonderful riglol?
2020-12-31T21:18:15 < mawk> yes I want the rigolo
2020-12-31T21:18:24 < mawk> I'm not planning to buy these things
2020-12-31T21:18:34 < mawk> I just saw them at work in a box
2020-12-31T21:18:45 < mawk> rigolo means funny in french
2020-12-31T21:18:54 < Steffanx> Yes, saleae is fine fine.
2020-12-31T21:19:02 < mawk> it's an old thing
2020-12-31T21:19:06 < mawk> little usb dongle
2020-12-31T21:19:12 < mawk> "24MHz 8CH"
2020-12-31T21:19:31 < PaulFertser> If you get it for real cheap like ten bucks then it's good enough.
2020-12-31T21:19:45 < mawk> there's a box with a bunch of these
2020-12-31T21:19:49 < mawk> but I need to ask firsr
2020-12-31T21:19:50 < mawk> t
2020-12-31T21:20:06 < mawk> it's from a failed company we bought the stock of
2020-12-31T21:20:16 < PaulFertser> Cool, then certainly grab one if you do not have already.
2020-12-31T21:20:29 < Steffanx> who mawk 
2020-12-31T21:20:41 < PaulFertser> You can also use it as SMBus adapter for PC, there's firmware for that.
2020-12-31T21:20:42 < mawk> secret
2020-12-31T21:20:48 < Steffanx> no its not mawk 
2020-12-31T21:21:10 < mawk> just smbus? if it's a LA it could be anything no?
2020-12-31T21:21:16 < mawk> or maybe it can't output stuff
2020-12-31T21:21:21 < Steffanx> I remember i have one of these too mawk  https://sigrok.org/wiki/DreamSourceLab_DSLogic want it too? :P
2020-12-31T21:21:39 < Steffanx> is this shit i once bought, support was still shitty back then and gave up on it.
2020-12-31T21:21:45 < Steffanx> last week i found it in a box.
2020-12-31T21:21:56 < Steffanx> but since i have a saleae i dont need it, nor use it.
2020-12-31T21:22:19 < mawk> if you don't want it anymore sure
2020-12-31T21:22:56 < Steffanx> and it came with shitty clips and the connector is different. it has a fucked up iPod connector.
2020-12-31T21:22:59 < Steffanx> like WTF.
2020-12-31T21:24:18 < Steffanx> Apparently there were different versions of it.
2020-12-31T21:24:40 < PaulFertser> kakistos (κάκιστος; worst)
2020-12-31T21:25:12 < mawk> lol
2020-12-31T21:25:37 < mawk> κακινιρ
2020-12-31T21:46:39 < jadew> did a stupid thing
2020-12-31T21:46:56 < jadew> tried to launch the drone from the balcony, from my hand
2020-12-31T21:47:06 < jadew> (figured we could watch the fireworks)
2020-12-31T21:47:39 < jadew> because it's night and because it didn't have GPS signal close to the building, it wasn't very stable
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2020-12-31T21:48:06 < jadew> the whole flight seemed weird so I decided to bring it in and land it in my hand
2020-12-31T21:48:15 < jadew> but it wasn't stable... so I brought it in
2020-12-31T21:48:37 -!- fury [uid193779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qxbtnhkzdpzvzchw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2020-12-31T21:48:38 < jadew> once on the balcony, it detected the ground, so its altitude wasn't matching what it had seconds before
2020-12-31T21:48:54 < jadew> so it tried to correct for that
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2020-12-31T21:49:20 < jadew> that meant that even tho I was trying to land it, the drone was going up scraping the ceiling
2020-12-31T21:49:43 < jadew> eventually it lifted all the dust we had on some shelves and crashed behind them
2020-12-31T21:50:10 < jadew> end of story
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2020-12-31T21:50:23 < emeb> broken props?
2020-12-31T21:50:37 < jadew> I remembered it had propeller guards for exactly this type of situation, but only after the fact
2020-12-31T21:50:41 < jadew> emeb, surprisingly no
2020-12-31T21:50:57 < jadew> the enclosure was split (it was loose from some clips)
2020-12-31T21:51:01 < jadew> but it snapped back
2020-12-31T21:51:09 < jadew> and the camera survived too
2020-12-31T21:52:37 < jadew> we're not allowed to go out after 11 pm
2020-12-31T21:55:42 < jadew> like we're fucking children
2020-12-31T21:56:28 < jadew> I understand a full lockdown, but this is just stupid
2020-12-31T21:56:36 < Streaker> english is such a terribly ambiguous language
2020-12-31T21:56:48 < jadew> lol Streaker 
2020-12-31T21:58:41 < englishman> we had 800 cases per day in October when they re-closed the restaurants and gyms. now it's 2800 cases per day
2020-12-31T21:59:04 < jadew> with restaurants and gyms still closed?
2020-12-31T21:59:08 < englishman> yes
2020-12-31T21:59:18 < englishman> nice being the scapegoat
2020-12-31T21:59:30 < englishman> they didn't even require masks in schools until end of nov
2020-12-31T22:00:52 < jadew> we had masks from the get go, but they forced kids to go to school in person even where online schooling was available
2020-12-31T22:01:33 < jadew> I think there's a lot of bullshit in this whole thing, but I'm not sure of what kind and where exactly
2020-12-31T22:01:54 < jadew> for one, I don't think the original story was real, or if it was real, it was greatly exaggerated
2020-12-31T22:02:10 < jadew> and what happens now, is entirely based on that
2020-12-31T22:05:16 < jadew> suggestions for a new years eve movie for the whole family?
2020-12-31T22:06:03 < jadew> would watch die hard, but I saw it recently
2020-12-31T22:06:25 < englishman> Bruce Lee enter the dragon
2020-12-31T22:06:50 < jadew> I don't think the wife would enjoy it, but if it was bloodier she might
2020-12-31T22:07:59 < jadew> Unleashed could work
2020-12-31T22:08:03 < jadew> putting that on the list
2020-12-31T22:34:06 < mawk> jadew: in france they will put it to 6pm
2020-12-31T22:34:08 < mawk> the curfew
2020-12-31T22:43:58 < englishman> our politicians here all went to Hawaii, Florida or the carib for their vacations
2020-12-31T22:44:11 < Mangy_Dog> This is just a curiocity question... so dont get too excited yet... But say i want to move away from arduino based cores. So i can open myself to the full stm32 family of MCUs...
2020-12-31T22:44:17 < englishman> so noone really gives a shit what they say anymore
2020-12-31T22:44:21 < Mangy_Dog> How do i do that?
2020-12-31T22:44:35 < englishman> buy a stm32 nucleo and start
2020-12-31T22:44:44 < Mangy_Dog> why a nucleo?
2020-12-31T22:44:48 < antto> kill a frog
2020-12-31T22:44:53 < Mangy_Dog> how would that be any different to my current setup?
2020-12-31T22:44:54 < englishman> they are very cheap and have no frills
2020-12-31T22:44:57 < antto> in a ritualistic way
2020-12-31T22:45:10 < englishman> the discovery boards are typically more money and built to show off a certain feature
2020-12-31T22:45:23 < Mangy_Dog> well say i dont want to buy a dev board
2020-12-31T22:45:30 < Mangy_Dog> how do i setup a project?
2020-12-31T22:45:32 < englishman> you didn't say anything about your current setup.
2020-12-31T22:45:46 < englishman> download stm32cubemx
2020-12-31T22:45:57 < zyp> sounds like Mangy_Dog wants a new software solution, not a new hardware solution
2020-12-31T22:46:04 < Mangy_Dog> wait wait... While I do have cubeMX, i was told most of you hate it
2020-12-31T22:46:11 < Mangy_Dog> zyp basically
2020-12-31T22:46:23 < Mangy_Dog> I just want to know how you lot dev your projects
2020-12-31T22:46:28 < Mangy_Dog> and how most dev houses...
2020-12-31T22:46:31 < Mangy_Dog> IE the NORMAL way
2020-12-31T22:46:44 < Mangy_Dog> assuming working in a arduino based core enviroment isnt the way
2020-12-31T22:46:48 < zyp> people wouldn't hate cubemx if they didn't use it :p
2020-12-31T22:46:52 < antto> you'd pick a chip that fits the job, then you'd make a board
2020-12-31T22:46:57 < Mangy_Dog> antto
2020-12-31T22:47:00 < Mangy_Dog> thats the easy bit
2020-12-31T22:47:02 < Mangy_Dog> i get that
2020-12-31T22:47:03 < zyp> antto, Mangy_Dog already did that part
2020-12-31T22:47:12 < Mangy_Dog> but how do setup a programming project?
2020-12-31T22:47:16 < antto> next up: suffer the consequences
2020-12-31T22:47:26 < englishman> next you have to open stm32cubemx
2020-12-31T22:47:41 < Mangy_Dog> englishman again... Most people say stay away from cubemx
2020-12-31T22:47:41 < antto> option 1: you use some autogenerated code
2020-12-31T22:47:51 < englishman> most people voted for Trump
2020-12-31T22:48:08 < antto> option 2: you RTFM sooo hard ur forehead vein pops, and you write from scratch
2020-12-31T22:48:17 < englishman> this isn't a democracy, you can choose your own software here
2020-12-31T22:48:35 < Mangy_Dog> yes thats why im asking whats the usual way of doing it
2020-12-31T22:48:46 < Mangy_Dog> assuming that cubeMX isnt the usual way as most people here say stay away from it
2020-12-31T22:48:49 < Mangy_Dog> apart from you
2020-12-31T22:48:54 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, pick whatever lib you would like to use, generate or grab an empty template as a starting point, start coding
2020-12-31T22:48:54 < fenugrec> just go full maso and use emacs. for everything
2020-12-31T22:49:14 < englishman> I've answered, but you don't like my answer
2020-12-31T22:49:20 < Mangy_Dog> and tbh im not against cubeMX the way of setting up the hardware before auto generating a startup project seems reasonable... and then you jsut write your code into main.....
2020-12-31T22:49:39 < Mangy_Dog> zyp what libs?
2020-12-31T22:49:47 < englishman> without specifying any other constraints, I'll consider your question answered
2020-12-31T22:49:54 < Mangy_Dog> again i use rogers core mostly which is based on libmaple
2020-12-31T22:50:00 < Mangy_Dog> which is based on arduino
2020-12-31T22:50:04 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, cubemx or anything else that works for you
2020-12-31T22:50:17 < Mangy_Dog> zyp do you use cubemx?
2020-12-31T22:50:23 < zyp> no, I use laks
2020-12-31T22:50:29 < zyp> but I wouldn't recommend that to you
2020-12-31T22:50:31 < antto> he's mr option #2
2020-12-31T22:50:31 < Mangy_Dog> ok not heard of laks
2020-12-31T22:50:37 < Mangy_Dog> i have heard of mbed
2020-12-31T22:50:42 < zyp> I made it
2020-12-31T22:50:47 < Mangy_Dog> is that a core lib?
2020-12-31T22:50:55 < zyp> what's a core lib?
2020-12-31T22:51:06 < Mangy_Dog> mbed
2020-12-31T22:51:23 < antto> Mangy_Dog, when you said "crapduino" what kind of chip did you mean?
2020-12-31T22:51:26 < Mangy_Dog> core lib... like what cubemx makes or rogers core makes... 
2020-12-31T22:51:36 < Mangy_Dog> antto ANY stm32
2020-12-31T22:51:48 < Mangy_Dog> im ideally trying to move away from the arduino based core
2020-12-31T22:52:01 < Mangy_Dog> 1 so i have access to all the other chips
2020-12-31T22:52:04 < antto> and you've only ever written code from stm32 like "DigitalWrite()" sh*t?
2020-12-31T22:52:10 < Mangy_Dog> and 2 so i get some better experience away from arudino based cores...
2020-12-31T22:52:11 < zyp> core lib is not really a term I recognize
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2020-12-31T22:52:41 < Mangy_Dog> ive mostly used digitalwrite read blah... but I have also done a tinsy bit of direct port manip
2020-12-31T22:53:01 < antto> port manipulation.. ports aren't uber complex
2020-12-31T22:53:05 < antto> okay
2020-12-31T22:53:14 < zyp> I don't think people outside the ecosystem you've been used to are talking about «cores»
2020-12-31T22:53:18 < Mangy_Dog> i also realise digitalwrite blah is arduino based abstraction
2020-12-31T22:53:30 < Mangy_Dog> zyp thats fair
2020-12-31T22:53:33 < antto> have you written bare-metal without crapduino on something? atmega even? pic? anything?
2020-12-31T22:53:47 < Mangy_Dog> not totally bare no
2020-12-31T22:54:07 < antto> coz arm is.. complex
2020-12-31T22:54:24 < Mangy_Dog> again which is why im asking and looking to find how to move away from arduino.......
2020-12-31T22:54:37 < antto> 1) toss it and forget it
2020-12-31T22:54:39 < zyp> most of the complexity difference can be ignored
2020-12-31T22:54:41 < antto> 2) ???
2020-12-31T22:54:44 < antto> 3) profit!
2020-12-31T22:54:46 < zyp> so don't worry about that
2020-12-31T22:56:01 < catphish> ahoy, how are people doing?
2020-12-31T22:56:24 < antto> mare betal
2020-12-31T22:56:37 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, in doing an embedded project, there's generally multiple problems, or you can call it pieces of the puzzle, and one question is whether you want a do-it-all solution, or a particular piece
2020-12-31T22:57:22 < Mangy_Dog> well lets just say my goal... is to be building projects the way, pros do it...
2020-12-31T22:57:26 < zyp> the first one tends to be the build system, i.e. organizing what source files to build, what commands to call to build them, and so on
2020-12-31T22:57:30 < Mangy_Dog> sounds very l337
2020-12-31T22:57:42 < Mangy_Dog> but i mean seriously if i was getting a job at some dev house
2020-12-31T22:57:46 < Mangy_Dog> how would they be doing it
2020-12-31T22:57:57 < zyp> all manner of ways
2020-12-31T22:58:04 < antto> toss codes like hot potatos and panic
2020-12-31T22:58:14 < antto> run around screaming
2020-12-31T22:58:42 < antto> i can't give advice about "pro" anything
2020-12-31T22:59:03 < Steffanx> lol englishman , sounds like dutchland and canada have the same government. Same same with the restaurants, the number of cases
2020-12-31T22:59:15 < Steffanx> and our "king"  still went on holiday to greece.
2020-12-31T22:59:24 < zyp> some people have their IDE be responsible for building the project, some people prefer writing their own makefiles or similar, and some people prefer the library providing a build solution
2020-12-31T22:59:30 < Mangy_Dog> well its one of the reasons im stuck in f103, because im kinda trapped in roger clarks core, ie libmaple based core
2020-12-31T22:59:46 < zyp> so you might want to consider that first
2020-12-31T22:59:52 < Mangy_Dog> well
2020-12-31T23:00:04 < antto> i'm the IDE guy
2020-12-31T23:00:12 < zyp> I'm somewhere in between the last two
2020-12-31T23:00:23 < antto> coz ur a h4x0r
2020-12-31T23:00:44 < Mangy_Dog> id like a all in one if possible... IE a well documented back end library.... with builder tools built into the IDE (like i currently have with eclipse) and upload tools supporting stlink within the IDE too
2020-12-31T23:00:53 < Mangy_Dog> id prefer not to manually make makefiles
2020-12-31T23:00:58 < Mangy_Dog> as simply put
2020-12-31T23:01:04 < Mangy_Dog> never done it before D:
2020-12-31T23:01:12 < antto> aww, u want ze fancy coazy luxury
2020-12-31T23:01:24 < Mangy_Dog> frankly yes
2020-12-31T23:01:31 < zyp> I personally don't like IDE magic, because it obscures what is going on, making it harder to fix when something breaks
2020-12-31T23:01:41 < Mangy_Dog> I want the headache of developing complex projects.... not the headache of constantly fixing my IDE
2020-12-31T23:02:01 < antto> bruh, wut could go wrong with ur IDE?!
2020-12-31T23:02:08 < Mangy_Dog> plenty
2020-12-31T23:02:08 < antto> or is it written in java.. oh wait
2020-12-31T23:02:10 < zyp> and it's also tying the building of the project to the choice of editor, which I don't like
2020-12-31T23:02:32 < zyp> IMO projects should be able to be built independently of your dev setup
2020-12-31T23:02:35 < Mangy_Dog> zyp please dont tell me you souly write in notepad++ ? :p
2020-12-31T23:02:37 < emeb_mac> makefiles aren't so bad. it's not a bad skill to have.
2020-12-31T23:02:41 < antto> well otherwise you tie the building of the project to some particular build system
2020-12-31T23:03:33 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog: you will be less happy when he says vi.
2020-12-31T23:03:37 < zyp> antto, yes
2020-12-31T23:04:01 < zyp> having a build system as a dependency feels a lot more reasonable than having an IDE as a dependency
2020-12-31T23:04:26 < Steffanx> like a tool being written in java is relevant... stop being like dongs. using stupid arguments, antto .
2020-12-31T23:04:49 < emeb_mac> especially a build system that's available on most every OS you can think of
2020-12-31T23:05:42 < antto> zyp, the IDE's build system is pretty predictable, all the settings used are in the project file
2020-12-31T23:05:44 < Mangy_Dog> ok say i go stm32cube route....
2020-12-31T23:05:44 < zyp> as a rule of thumb; any decent project should be easy to run on a headless CI box somewhere, not just your dev computer
2020-12-31T23:06:23 < zyp> I believe the template project cubemx generates for you will include working makefiles
2020-12-31T23:06:29 < Mangy_Dog> are serial/spi/i2c any serial like hardware vastly different?
2020-12-31T23:06:33 < Mangy_Dog> than what im used to?
2020-12-31T23:06:44 < antto> Makefiles can be soooo hairy i can't even
2020-12-31T23:07:04 < zyp> yeah, I don't like makefiles myself
2020-12-31T23:07:25 < antto> i'm a dumb guy, i work alone, i use muh IDE
2020-12-31T23:07:35 < Steffanx> zyp: only if you let it generate a makefile project
2020-12-31T23:07:49 < Steffanx> otherwise it will just cubeide generating the makefiles when you build.
2020-12-31T23:07:55 < zyp> I like the concept of makefiles, but not that particular implementation :)
2020-12-31T23:07:58 < Steffanx> the make files are AWFUL, but .. its generated.
2020-12-31T23:07:58 < fenugrec> cmake -> makefile has some nice advantages
2020-12-31T23:08:06 < zyp> there's plenty of more modern alternatives
2020-12-31T23:08:31 < Steffanx> and the project config of cubeide isnt pretty straight forward, works pretty ok for most common settings.
2020-12-31T23:08:41 < antto> Mangy_Dog, no idea what you're used to
2020-12-31T23:08:49 < Steffanx> since its mainly just a interface towards the command line configs.
2020-12-31T23:08:53 < Mangy_Dog> arduino... though that was pretty clear by now
2020-12-31T23:09:07 < antto> i'm not familiar with crapduino
2020-12-31T23:09:19 < Mangy_Dog> so spi.beginTransfer(18000000,blah blah
2020-12-31T23:09:31 < Steffanx> And, sure the eclipse based config isnt perfect, but 999 out of 1000 times its a stupid user error.
2020-12-31T23:09:34 < antto> nor with stm32
2020-12-31T23:09:35 < antto> ;P~
2020-12-31T23:09:53 < Steffanx> and you can make stupid user errors in any tool.
2020-12-31T23:10:06 < Steffanx> except keil uvision, that tool is percect. 
2020-12-31T23:10:15 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, arduino stuff is C++, cube stuff is C, so that alone adds some verbosity
2020-12-31T23:10:35 < Mangy_Dog> oh really? i thought cubemxIDE was c++
2020-12-31T23:10:39 < antto> i just don't want to accept C sh*t
2020-12-31T23:10:47 < antto> if i have to write in it
2020-12-31T23:10:55 < Mangy_Dog> i feel like setting antto on ignore :/
2020-12-31T23:11:10 < antto> i'm so scared
2020-12-31T23:11:36 < Mangy_Dog> i dont care if your scared or not... Youre just turning into white noise and im trying to get some info to how to move on away from arduino based stuff
2020-12-31T23:11:53 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog, antto  doesnt even STM32, so anything he says is invalid by default.
2020-12-31T23:11:54 < antto> step by step
2020-12-31T23:12:14 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, by the way, have you considered just looking up a cubemx hello world tutorial and following it?
2020-12-31T23:12:16 < antto> at which step are you?
2020-12-31T23:12:43 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the biggest hurdel for me to move away from the arduino based stuff, will be having to port the tools i kinda relie a lot on... like the gameduino library
2020-12-31T23:12:59 < antto> o_O
2020-12-31T23:13:11 < Mangy_Dog> i dont use its bitmap manipulation tools i write my opengl code directly... But I need it for the interfacing with the graphics chip and asset loading side of things
2020-12-31T23:13:44 < Mangy_Dog> zyp strangely i think i did have a look at that a while ago
2020-12-31T23:13:46 < antto> graphics chip? this some complex sh*t
2020-12-31T23:13:48 < Mangy_Dog> i mean i have the ide installed
2020-12-31T23:13:51 -!- oofus__ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2020-12-31T23:14:15 < Mangy_Dog> antto yes a embedded graphics co processor.... controled over spi
2020-12-31T23:14:27 < Steffanx> in the mean time they probably release 2 new versions already
2020-12-31T23:14:44 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx? the library?
2020-12-31T23:14:48 < Steffanx> the ide
2020-12-31T23:14:52 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2020-12-31T23:14:53 < Mangy_Dog> fair
2020-12-31T23:15:04 < Steffanx> and whatever version of the lib it comes with, not sure if updated
2020-12-31T23:15:17 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, IME you learn a lot more by spending a bit of time attempting to do something, than simply asking about how to do something :)
2020-12-31T23:15:31 < Mangy_Dog> i agree
2020-12-31T23:15:39 < Mangy_Dog> but id like to know where to start :D
2020-12-31T23:15:44 < zyp> whatever you make might not be useful in itself, but the experience from it is
2020-12-31T23:15:47 < Mangy_Dog> sooo is cubeMX really is the way forward.....
2020-12-31T23:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> even though i thought most of you said dont use it
2020-12-31T23:16:17 < zyp> cubemx is the vendor solution
2020-12-31T23:16:18 < antto> isn't the answer here "it depends"
2020-12-31T23:16:57 < zyp> generally when you're opting to not use the vendor solution, it's because you think you know better :)
2020-12-31T23:17:21 < antto> the goal of the kewb would be to help you quickly select a chip, parametrically, get a signal map so you can make a board maybe, and get some basic code generated
2020-12-31T23:17:38 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2020-12-31T23:17:40 < qyx> basic?
2020-12-31T23:17:48 < zyp> I could recommend libopencm3 instead, but at your experience level I believe cube would be easier to get anything done with
2020-12-31T23:18:22 < Steffanx> Also.. to make things more complicated. When it comes with the Cube you have HAL and LL. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
2020-12-31T23:18:26 < zyp> or I could recommend laks, but then you're probably getting nothing done because that's an undocumented pile of mess :)
2020-12-31T23:18:42 < Mangy_Dog> oh heard of libopencm3 before too
2020-12-31T23:19:21 < Steffanx> and HAL is far from perfect and bug free. And some stuff is just fucked up.
2020-12-31T23:19:40 < zyp> I'd say laks is great if you understand it and understand how to extend it when running into points where it's lacking, which I do since I wrote it :p
2020-12-31T23:19:43 < Mangy_Dog> so is cubemx closer to hal than c++?
2020-12-31T23:20:09 < Steffanx> CubeMX is a code generator, it generates code using the HAL or LL (low level functions).
2020-12-31T23:20:13 < zyp> but without documentation I only recommend that to people who are adventurous
2020-12-31T23:20:26 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i dont think laks is for me
2020-12-31T23:20:28 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2020-12-31T23:20:41 < antto> kewb is C
2020-12-31T23:20:48 < antto> laks is C++
2020-12-31T23:20:57 < Steffanx> The cube documentation is fun as well. Missing important info, or just reinterating what the function names already imply.
2020-12-31T23:21:31 < Steffanx> Luckily, for maybe you Mangy_Dog , there are a lot of examples for many of the HAL modules/peripherals.
2020-12-31T23:22:36 < Steffanx> The actually code, if you want to download it manually, is in stm32cubef1. (https://www.st.com/en/embedded-software/stm32cubef1.html)
2020-12-31T23:22:40 < Steffanx> but stm32cubeide will download that
2020-12-31T23:22:56 < Steffanx> but the download i linked also has some/many examples
2020-12-31T23:24:50 < qyx> with locm3 you can get the thing working with 5 lines of code
2020-12-31T23:25:11 < Steffanx> Yeah, my arse, qyx  :P
2020-12-31T23:25:28 < qyx> pls
2020-12-31T23:25:40 < Steffanx> or do you mean, can get something running?
2020-12-31T23:25:54 < qyx> compare led blink example in locm3 with cune
2020-12-31T23:25:56 < qyx> cube
2020-12-31T23:26:03 < qyx> yeah
2020-12-31T23:26:07 < Steffanx> ooh ok :P
2020-12-31T23:27:50 < Mangy_Dog> ok so cubeide is almost all hal
2020-12-31T23:28:06 < antto> uhm
2020-12-31T23:28:22 < Steffanx> No, CubeIDE is just the tool to write your setup your project, code in, compile
2020-12-31T23:28:27 < Steffanx> shit.
2020-12-31T23:28:45 < Steffanx> > No, CubeIDE is just the tool your setup your project,  to write  code in, to compile etc.
2020-12-31T23:29:02 < Steffanx> lol, i suck. :P
2020-12-31T23:29:41 < Steffanx> it will download all the stuff you need for your project for you.
2020-12-31T23:29:57 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2020-12-31T23:29:58 < antto> buh, 30 minutes til the madness
2020-12-31T23:30:04 < Mangy_Dog> well its doing that now
2020-12-31T23:30:05 < Steffanx> Dont die antto 
2020-12-31T23:30:13 < Mangy_Dog> 600 meg.... for a hello world
2020-12-31T23:30:16 < Steffanx> Here fireworks etc. are forbidden, so no madnes really.
2020-12-31T23:30:16 < antto> i'll be fine, i'm cooking
2020-12-31T23:30:29 < antto> but muh cat don't liek teh eggsplojans
2020-12-31T23:30:46 < PaulFertser> Our cats ignore fireworks.
2020-12-31T23:30:53 < PaulFertser> Not bothered at all it looks like.
2020-12-31T23:31:03 < antto> this particular one used to be afraid even from the rain
2020-12-31T23:31:05 < Steffanx> I think it actually comes with a basic manual Mangy_Dog, somewhere
2020-12-31T23:31:45 < Steffanx> Dont you lock the cat into a dark room, windows closed etc. antto ?
2020-12-31T23:32:02 < Steffanx> maybe thats just the box next to you ;)
2020-12-31T23:32:23 < antto> no
2020-12-31T23:32:36 < antto> she evacuates herself
2020-12-31T23:32:47 < Steffanx> or dog doesnt mind the fireworks either, its just a matter of training. Cant be much different with cats.
2020-12-31T23:32:59 < antto> while i try to bring her back with me to show her that it's not scary
2020-12-31T23:33:34 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: no, dogs are really different
2020-12-31T23:33:37 < PaulFertser> In that regard
2020-12-31T23:33:38 < antto> she hides behind the washing machine or in some other obscure places otherwise
2020-12-31T23:33:44 < Steffanx> but cats can be trained PaulFertser 
2020-12-31T23:34:18 < Steffanx> you just need more patience and time.
2020-12-31T23:34:50 < Steffanx> i mean, even a gold fish can be "trained" .
2020-12-31T23:36:19 < Steffanx> but yeah, a cat is just a dog with autism. :P
2020-12-31T23:40:06 < antto> pls
2020-12-31T23:40:40 < antto> dogs are domesticated wolves
2020-12-31T23:41:07 < antto> cats are the same no matter if it's a smol one or a tig0r
2020-12-31T23:41:14 < catphish> a cat is just a cat, they don't care
2020-12-31T23:42:00 < catphish> although my cat is feeling domesticated at the moment because it's below zero outside and i have a fire :)
2020-12-31T23:43:38 < zyp> what do people think of #pragma once vs include guards?
2020-12-31T23:44:06 < zyp> I've always used include guards out of habit, but that's looking increasingly pointless
2020-12-31T23:44:34 < Steffanx> There was a discussion about that a few days ago.
2020-12-31T23:44:40 < zyp> was there?
2020-12-31T23:44:57 < zyp> probably while I were still on vacation then
2020-12-31T23:45:06 < zyp> care to summarize?
2020-12-31T23:45:18 < antto> i keep using guardz
2020-12-31T23:46:14 < zyp> I mean, my code have been requiring C++11-support since forever, and now I'm about to bump that up to C++20
2020-12-31T23:46:41 < zyp> I don't imagine there's any C++20-capable compilers that doesn't support #pragma once :)
2020-12-31T23:47:03 < Steffanx> Yeah, i think that was the main conclusing. Why not not use it.. since its so widely supported.
2020-12-31T23:48:13 < Steffanx> conclusion*
2020-12-31T23:48:25 < catphish> i always just set up my header files to avoid duplicate inludes, it's kind of a pain, but i find ifdef a bit hacky
2020-12-31T23:48:47 < zyp> wat?
2020-12-31T23:48:56 < zyp> that's bullshit :)
2020-12-31T23:49:47 < Steffanx> lol catphish 
2020-12-31T23:50:16 < antto> wat^2
2020-12-31T23:50:27 < zyp> if I have a header with e.g. helper stuff for register definitions, let's call it mmio.h, then it will naturally get included by shit like gpio.h and uart.h that are making register definitions
2020-12-31T23:50:56 < zyp> and if I then include both gpio.h and uart.h then I will get two copies of mmio.h
2020-12-31T23:51:19 < antto> that's if you don't have header guards or pragma once
2020-12-31T23:51:39 < zyp> exactly
2020-12-31T23:51:49 < antto> but the point here is to move the mmio.h "up"
2020-12-31T23:51:55 < antto> so forward declarations work
2020-12-31T23:51:56 < catphish> yeah, that's a pretty common problem, i'm not sure how i manage to avoid it
2020-12-31T23:52:11 < catphish> ifdef feels hacky, but actually it's probably the correct solution
2020-12-31T23:52:32 < Steffanx> but now we have pragma once. And have it all solved for you :)
2020-12-31T23:52:33 < antto> that's header guards, it's been used since forever
2020-12-31T23:52:43 < zyp> requiring the end user to manually include mmio.h before including any header that defines registers is absolutely insane
2020-12-31T23:52:52 < antto> yeah ^
2020-12-31T23:53:04 < catphish> i think i just don't require headers from other headers
2020-12-31T23:53:16 < zyp> then your projects are all trivial :)
2020-12-31T23:53:37 < catphish> quite :)
2020-12-31T23:54:03 < catphish> i need a worthwhile project more than ever, i'm not working at the moment, trying to decide whether to go back to work, or do something new, but i have no motivation at all for software
2020-12-31T23:54:24 < Steffanx> Hows the engine progressing?
2020-12-31T23:54:31 < Steffanx> the controller tha tis
2020-12-31T23:55:15 < Steffanx> Why not working catphish ? Cant you easily work from home and do your stuff? or is everything so automated you're not longer needed?
2020-12-31T23:55:25 < antto> ooh, mr president gon talk nao
2020-12-31T23:57:00 < Steffanx> enjoy antto 
2020-12-31T23:57:15 < antto> cat already evacuated
2020-12-31T23:57:39 < fenugrec> what happened to community.st.com ? seems every time I end up on there the pages are more broken and unusable
2020-12-31T23:57:56 < catphish> i didn't work on the engine project for long, i got the thing running with some hardcoded fuel settings, but decided the hardware was insufficient (lack of proper crankshaft position sensor) to progress further, i'm getting a new garage built, will probably do an EV project instead once that's built
--- Log closed Fri Jan 01 00:00:03 2021