--- Log opened Fri Jan 01 00:00:03 2021
--- Day changed Fri Jan 01 2021
2021-01-01T00:00:03 < Steffanx> its you fenugrec ?
2021-01-01T00:00:04 < catphish> Steffanx: i'm not working because a combination of working from home, and boredom with web development resulted in me becoming so unproductive at my dayjob that i just wasn't worth bothering
2021-01-01T00:00:27 < Steffanx> ay :(
2021-01-01T00:01:00 < catphish> my lack of productivity was resulting in 1) my employer wasting their money by paying me to get nothing done 2) depression 3) excessive drinking
2021-01-01T00:01:05 < catphish> so i thought it was time to take a break
2021-01-01T00:02:34 < catphish> in my time off i've realised that i'm much more interested in electronics now than software
2021-01-01T00:03:02 < qyx> it is a long journey
2021-01-01T00:05:23 < catphish> i learned a bit about old computer architecture and designed a 6502 based computer, but i think it would be nice to find something with some semblance of commercial viability
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2021-01-01T00:16:22 < Steffanx> Happy new year jpa- and kakium69 
2021-01-01T00:17:13 < englishman> happy arbitrary increment day
2021-01-01T00:18:07 < Steffanx> and the others in that time zone of course, probably the eastern european guys :)
2021-01-01T00:19:17 < qyx> we have gmt+1
2021-01-01T00:19:31 < qyx> one hour left
2021-01-01T00:19:44 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity#/media/File:Cat_demonstrating_static_cling_with_styrofoam_peanuts.jpg
2021-01-01T00:19:45 < englishman> Styrofoam peanuts clinging to a cat's fur due to static electricity. This effect is also the cause of static cling in clothes.
2021-01-01T00:19:46 < Steffanx> more eastern then :P
2021-01-01T00:22:00 < PaulFertser> qyx: please forget the word "gmt"
2021-01-01T00:22:13 < englishman> ^^
2021-01-01T00:22:23 < qyx> utc+1 is better!?
2021-01-01T00:22:25 < englishman> please refer to UTC only as Zulu Time
2021-01-01T00:22:26 < qyx> -!
2021-01-01T00:22:36 < PaulFertser> qyx: of course, much better
2021-01-01T00:22:40 < englishman> 👺
2021-01-01T00:22:50 < qyx> k, we have utc+1 then
2021-01-01T00:23:08 < Steffanx> We have CET.
2021-01-01T00:23:26 < Steffanx> CEST starts march 28
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2021-01-01T00:30:54 < catphish> i still have 90 more minutes of this terrible year
2021-01-01T00:32:46 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T00:35:12 < zyp> I've got some destructors getting called too early, how was the rules for that again?
2021-01-01T00:39:46 < catphish> wat?
2021-01-01T00:41:46 < zyp> I'm essentially doing this: auto foo_task = create_task(); scheduler.schedule(foo_task);, and then foo_task apparently goes out of scope and is destructed immediately
2021-01-01T00:43:53 < zyp> and yes, the object is not referenced anymore, but I thought destructors were normally called at the end of the function, not right there and then
2021-01-01T00:46:08 < PaulFertser> Out of scope should be the key word here.
2021-01-01T00:47:20 < PaulFertser> "The destructor is called whenever an object's lifetime ends, which includes
2021-01-01T00:47:26 < PaulFertser> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/destructor
2021-01-01T00:49:41 < zyp> I just don't see why the scope is ending :)
2021-01-01T00:50:59 < zyp> when a std::lock_guard gets a scope going to the end of the function without being referenced by anything, why doesn't the same hold for my task object? why does it go out of scope as soon as nothing is referencing it?
2021-01-01T00:51:52 < PaulFertser> It sounds wrong, the scope is the scope, not whether it's referenced or not.
2021-01-01T00:53:15 < antto> is it getting optimized-out or sumfin?
2021-01-01T00:55:39 < antto> or one of the alternative constructors/destructors is being used under your nose
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2021-01-01T01:03:46 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T01:04:27 < zyp> I tried making a simplified thing on godbolt and it's not behaving like that, not sure what's different
2021-01-01T01:04:54 < antto> is the compiler version the same and same-ish compile options?
2021-01-01T01:04:59 < t4nk_freenode> splendid newyear btw, ppl :b
2021-01-01T01:05:06 < zyp> no, gcc 9 vs 10
2021-01-01T01:18:53 < zyp> oh, I think I'm getting it
2021-01-01T01:20:15 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/6YxGEv
2021-01-01T01:26:33 < zyp> oh, I'm fucking stupid
2021-01-01T01:27:08 < zyp> scheduler.schedule() passes by value, creating a copy, that's getting destructed when that function returns
2021-01-01T01:27:53 < emeb> love those little details
2021-01-01T01:28:41 < zyp> that's why shit like that should be made noncopyable
2021-01-01T01:30:33 < antto> so.. is it one of the alternative constructors then?
2021-01-01T01:31:21 < zyp> copy constructor, sure
2021-01-01T01:31:51 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T01:32:20 < zyp> I should also write up some docs on how the pieces here fit together
2021-01-01T01:33:07 < zyp> what tools are good for writing documentation nowadays?
2021-01-01T01:33:26 < Thorn> zyp you're making 3 copies of each task, right? auto task_a, temporary that is passed to schedule() and another copy that you put into the queue. but there's only 2 'destructed' messages per task
2021-01-01T01:33:35 < fenugrec> notepad
2021-01-01T01:33:53 < zyp> Thorn, no, I'm only putting the coro handle in the queue, not the task object itself
2021-01-01T01:34:29 < Thorn> oh ok makes sense then
2021-01-01T01:34:38 < zyp> also, I'm gonna make stuff a bit more rigid than this
2021-01-01T01:34:50 < Thorn> I hate godbolt, apple+F search doesn't work
2021-01-01T01:35:41 < zyp> I've renamed my task<> stuff to async<> for normal coroutines
2021-01-01T01:37:13 < zyp> and then I'm gonna make a new «schedulable» base class for stuff that can be queued by the scheduler, and a new awaiter called «task» that inherits schedulable
2021-01-01T01:38:17 < zyp> I'm gonna do this because a schedulable will then contain a linked list handle for the scheduler queue, avoiding the need for a container in the scheduler and dynamic queue allocation
2021-01-01T01:39:25 < zyp> I need schedule() to be reentrant to safely call it from ISRs and appending to a linked list is reasonably easy to make reentrant
2021-01-01T01:40:09 < qyx> oh 2k21 already started
2021-01-01T01:40:32 < zyp> no, it's not 2210 yet
2021-01-01T01:40:44 < qyx> me dump
2021-01-01T01:40:49 < qyx> dumb lol
2021-01-01T01:41:25 < zyp> anyway, it'd be useful to type up some documentation for this now, so what are good documentation generators nowadays?
2021-01-01T01:41:25 < qyx> one may think I am drunk
2021-01-01T01:41:40 < qyx> doxygen is not cool anymore?
2021-01-01T01:42:03 < zyp> last I checked, sphinx+doxygen seemed like the most reasonable alternative, just wondering if I should consider anything else before going that route now
2021-01-01T01:42:26 < antto> muh IDE picks up doxygen-format stuff in the code and shows it during coding
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2021-01-01T02:05:09  * qyx trying zephyr
2021-01-01T02:05:39 < Steffanx> Are you sure that is the first thing you want to do in 2k21?
2021-01-01T02:05:48 < qyx> the fuk, it is apparently cloning libs for all platforms in the known universe
2021-01-01T02:06:00 < qyx> 2 GB so far
2021-01-01T02:06:26 < zyp> nice
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2021-01-01T02:11:11 < mawk> qyx: my company is about to use it
2021-01-01T02:13:54 < Steffanx> because IoT right?
2021-01-01T02:14:08 < mawk> an intern compared everything
2021-01-01T02:14:24 < mawk> and deduced that zephyr was the best thing
2021-01-01T02:14:28 < mawk> apparently
2021-01-01T02:15:13 < Steffanx> did the actually try it for custom hw etc?
2021-01-01T02:15:28 < Steffanx> i recall thats the part where karlp complained about, a lot.
2021-01-01T02:16:31 < mawk> the intern has to write some porting code for our l1 chip
2021-01-01T02:16:32 < Steffanx> *he
2021-01-01T02:16:37 < mawk> especially clock stuff
2021-01-01T02:18:15 < mawk> sleep modes and so on
2021-01-01T02:25:10 < Steffanx> How great is zephyr actually for many things? Does it make cellular communication etc. via some AT-command set module much easier?
2021-01-01T02:31:02 < Steffanx> i guess it does
2021-01-01T02:33:52 < qyx> it doesnt use at shit
2021-01-01T02:34:10 < qyx> it does basics and fires ppp
2021-01-01T02:34:17 < qyx> with its own network stack
2021-01-01T02:36:10 < qyx> ok I configured my custom toolchain instead of the all-in-one provided by zephyr
2021-01-01T02:36:24 < qyx> but the thing keeps ignoring my wishes
2021-01-01T02:37:23 < Steffanx> Yeah, it seems like that indeed qyx 
2021-01-01T02:38:13 < Steffanx> @pppppp\
2021-01-01T02:38:47 < Steffanx> Not sure i would want it to use its own network stack if it does tcp/ip in the module as well.
2021-01-01T02:48:18 < qyx> you would
2021-01-01T02:48:35 < qyx> at least I would
2021-01-01T02:49:01 < qyx> it is always a nightmare making it working properly
2021-01-01T02:49:11 < qyx> those AT commands for internal stacks
2021-01-01T02:49:55 < qyx> ok now it fails to find some devicetree
2021-01-01T03:23:09 < zyp> how do you guys normally handle «sleep if idle»?
2021-01-01T03:24:54 < zyp> looks like there's two reasonable patterns
2021-01-01T03:25:24 < zyp> either cpsid(); if(idle()) { wfi(); } cpsie();
2021-01-01T03:27:21 < zyp> or simply if(idle()) { wfe(); }, with either any interrupts affecting idle state doing sev(); or setting SEVONPEND=1 to have all interrupts trigger sev
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2021-01-01T03:30:17 < zyp> the latter pattern seems more reasonable since it avoids fucking around with interrupt mask
2021-01-01T03:32:13 < zyp> hmm, not sure I even need to do sev() explicitly, although some documentation suggested it
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2021-01-01T03:36:11 < zyp> also not sure renode emulates wfe properly, it doesn't sleep at all unlike wfi
2021-01-01T03:50:43 < zyp> /* TODO: Implement SEV and WFE.  May help SMP performance.  */
2021-01-01T03:50:48 < zyp> heh :)
2021-01-01T03:52:04 < zyp> not really a big issue, just means it'll be busywaiting instead of sleeping
2021-01-01T04:49:59 < zyp> on the other hand, risc-v supports the former patteern
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2021-01-01T11:19:42 < PaulFertser> Has anyone tried https://github.com/usb-tools/ViewSB/tree/master/viewsb/backends ? Looks like it's in active development.
2021-01-01T11:20:12 < zyp> briefly
2021-01-01T11:21:11 < zyp> I dug out my old openvizsla board around half a year ago just to give that a try
2021-01-01T11:25:52 < zyp> fairly rudimentary, but promising
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2021-01-01T11:26:19 < PaulFertser> OK, so probably worth considering if the need arises.
2021-01-01T11:26:22 < PaulFertser> Thank you
2021-01-01T11:26:54 < zyp> I guess it might already have improved a lot since I tried it
2021-01-01T11:28:26 < zyp> but I don't think I'll throw out total phase data center just yet :)
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2021-01-01T14:25:13 < jadew> Directive 2014/53/EU should apply to unmanned aircraft that are not subject to certification and are not intended to be operated only on frequencies allocated by the Radio Regulations of the International Telecommunication Union for protected aeronautical use, if they intentionally emit and/or receive electromagnetic waves for the purpose of radio communication and/or radiodetermination at
2021-01-01T14:25:15 < jadew> frequencies below 3 000 GHz.
2021-01-01T14:26:10 < jadew> so if you want to avoid that directive, you just have to use a frequency above 3 THz
2021-01-01T14:26:36 < antto> does it make sense to use uint8_t type on cortex M4F (if it's big enough) in stuff like function arguments?
2021-01-01T14:28:06 < jadew> antto, I think the best practice is to use the correct type for your needs and the compiler decides what's the best code it can generate for the particular MCU
2021-01-01T14:28:18 < antto> right
2021-01-01T14:28:39 < antto> uint4_smol_t
2021-01-01T14:39:35 < BrainDamage> jadew: so light comms are ok
2021-01-01T14:39:42 < BrainDamage> or xray comms >.>
2021-01-01T14:39:53 < jadew> BrainDamage, was thinking the same
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2021-01-01T15:08:01 < jpa-> free samples time! i need someone to test a prototype of https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/DEISO-LF.pdf and tell me if it is totally stupid - preferrably someone who can think of an actual use for one..
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2021-01-01T15:13:11 < antto> oh, the NVIC is an arm thing? so the interrupts aren't $vendor-ish?
2021-01-01T15:13:55 < jpa-> antto: NVIC is common, but the numbering and meaning of each interrupt (except systick and hardfault etc.) is vendor-specific
2021-01-01T15:14:08 < antto> that surely
2021-01-01T15:21:15  * antto is trying to write a buffered interrupt-driven usart thing
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2021-01-01T15:37:55 < antto> when i fiddle with data that's used both from interrupt and from "main thread" i gotta turn off the interrupts when touching the data from the main thread, right?
2021-01-01T15:53:11 < marble_visions> antto: re: shared data between interruputs and "main thread" -- in short - yes
2021-01-01T15:54:04 < antto> i found some "critical_section_enter()" and "critical_section_leave()" in the ASF, i guess that's wut i need?
2021-01-01T15:55:44 < marble_visions> haven't used ASF, but seems like that's what you need
2021-01-01T15:56:14 < marble_visions> might do a few other things around interrupt disabling
2021-01-01T15:57:38 < antto> i stuffed it into a RAII thing: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/0b9f6b6b/
2021-01-01T16:00:29 < marble_visions> ugh, seems a bit too complex, how would you use it? if you're using C++, can you just mark the variables as "critical" or whatever, and then implement the "enter/exit critical" primitives
2021-01-01T16:00:38 < marble_visions> just guessing, i though c++ would have these
2021-01-01T16:00:43 < marble_visions> so you'd avoid boilerplate
2021-01-01T16:00:50 < marble_visions> also, happy new year!
2021-01-01T16:01:12 < Steffanx> A good new year, happy i dont know ;)
2021-01-01T16:02:02 < zyp> antto, no, you don't have to turn off interrupts if you're careful
2021-01-01T16:03:11 < zyp> I was dicking around with this the other day :)
2021-01-01T16:03:18 < antto> marble_visions, the usage is: normal; codez; { CriticalBlock meh; critical_code; } normal; code;
2021-01-01T16:04:16 < antto> the "meh" object is created inside that scope {} and dies when the scope ends
2021-01-01T16:04:16 < marble_visions> antto: so you're depending on critblock going out of scope so it automatically calls the destructor?
2021-01-01T16:04:24 < marble_visions> aha.
2021-01-01T16:04:24 < zyp> antto, why are you saving and restoring PRIMASK?
2021-01-01T16:04:48 < antto> zyp, i stole the guts from the ASF "critical_section_enter/leave"
2021-01-01T16:04:54 < antto> no idea really wut it's doing
2021-01-01T16:05:03 < zyp> what's ASF?
2021-01-01T16:05:20 < antto> atmel sumfin fumfin
2021-01-01T16:05:40 < marble_visions> I like to think of it as the stm32 stdlibs of atmel
2021-01-01T16:05:45 < Steffanx> atmel software framework duh
2021-01-01T16:05:47 < marble_visions> the analog*
2021-01-01T16:06:09 < antto> if you ask microsh*t, it's "ADVANCED sumfin fumfin" now ;P~
2021-01-01T16:06:32 < marble_visions> zyp: how do you do it without interrupt dis/en? unidirectional variables? or bitbands?
2021-01-01T16:07:13 < zyp> depends what you're doing
2021-01-01T16:07:16 < antto> zyp, these functions were used within the ASF in places where certain peripheral registers are being read/written
2021-01-01T16:07:30 < zyp> sometimes careful use of volatiles is enough, other times you use ldrex/strex
2021-01-01T16:08:35 < zyp> antto, oh, wait, I got it
2021-01-01T16:09:09 < marble_visions> ah, ldrex/strex.. I don't have access to those on the M0's
2021-01-01T16:09:23 < antto> this is M4F
2021-01-01T16:10:50 < zyp> antto, the reason you save and restore primask instead of just using cpsie in the destructor, is that interrupts might already be disabled (primask=0), and in that case you don't want to do enable them
2021-01-01T16:11:12 < antto> yes, of course
2021-01-01T16:11:16 < zyp> that way you can nest a critical section inside another critical section, and only the outer one will reenable interrupts when destructed
2021-01-01T16:11:36 < antto> yeah, i use the same object like that on avr
2021-01-01T16:12:41 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T16:12:54 < zyp> no ldrex on m0
2021-01-01T16:12:59 < zyp> that's a bummer
2021-01-01T16:13:50 < marble_visions> a lot of stuff missing on m0.. also no str/ldr for registers above r7 iirc.. so a context switch is killing you with MOVs 
2021-01-01T16:14:10 < Steffanx> But on AVR you can nest critical sections antto ?
2021-01-01T16:14:13 < zyp> yeah, I have my context switch ifdeffed out on m0 for that reason :p
2021-01-01T16:14:38 < zyp> Steffanx, as long as you keep track of whether interrupts were enabled or not, sure
2021-01-01T16:14:42 < antto> i had written an interrupt-driven buffered usart class for atmega over here, so now i'm basically copy/pasting it and butchering it to wurk on this cortex
2021-01-01T16:14:57 < Steffanx> zyp: i know.. but he said he uses the same, soo was wondering if antto keeps track of that.
2021-01-01T16:15:04 < zyp> :p
2021-01-01T16:15:05 < antto> Steffanx, this RAII-like objects does exactly that
2021-01-01T16:15:47 < antto> as long as the constructor/destructor execution order doesn't get f*cked up
2021-01-01T16:16:06 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T16:16:28 < antto> i use a similar RAII-like object in my html generator to write the stupid html nested tags for me
2021-01-01T16:17:52 < zyp> right, my std::atomic code that produces nice ldrex/strex based code with -mcpu=cortex-m4 just emits calls to __atomic_* stuff when compiled with -mcpu=cortex-m0
2021-01-01T16:18:46 < antto> Steffanx, https://gitlab.com/antto/pimpmykicadbom/-/blob/master/pimpmykicadbom.cpp#L2780
2021-01-01T16:18:52 < antto> scoped_tag
2021-01-01T16:18:57 < zyp> those functions could of course emulate atomic add and atomic compare and exchange by simply being a critical section
2021-01-01T16:19:03 < marble_visions> yes! and iirc __atomic_ is defined weak so you can define the behaviour..
2021-01-01T16:19:23 < marble_visions> if it's missing
2021-01-01T16:19:32 < marble_visions> nice one zyp
2021-01-01T16:21:21 < zyp> I'm working on a coroutine async framework that among other stuff will let me schedule stuff from ISRs
2021-01-01T16:21:45 < mawk> I tried to use the DSO-8500 scope
2021-01-01T16:21:54 < Steffanx> You're at work?
2021-01-01T16:22:00 < mawk> no
2021-01-01T16:22:02 < mawk> I took it home to try
2021-01-01T16:22:07 < marble_visions> zyp: sound really cool
2021-01-01T16:22:08 < mawk> "USE ONLY IN DOS 6.3 OR OLDER COMPUTERS."
2021-01-01T16:22:15 < mawk> sounds like I won't try it in the end
2021-01-01T16:22:36 < zyp> I've been planning to have schedule() use a compare and exchange method to append stuff to a linked list without turning off interrupts
2021-01-01T16:22:47 < mawk> ah actually they have a windows 7 32 bit version
2021-01-01T16:22:55 < Steffanx> DOS 6.3 had usb 2.0?
2021-01-01T16:22:58 < marble_visions> a Q about interrupts again -- for C code, we've got __enable_irq() __disable_irq() and __DMB() from cmsis.. is there a better stm32 wrapper, or should I stick with those?
2021-01-01T16:23:01 < Steffanx> support
2021-01-01T16:23:23 < zyp> and that's neat enough on armv7m and rv*a since they have atomic instructions
2021-01-01T16:24:16 < Steffanx> Time to add sigrok support mawk 
2021-01-01T16:24:47 < mawk> I'll just give it back to the office
2021-01-01T16:24:51 < mawk> I'm not archaeologist
2021-01-01T16:24:56 < zyp> but when armv6m and riscv without the atomic subset doesn't support that and std::atomic have to be emulated by way of critical sections in __atomic_* stubs, it'd be easier to just put a critical section in schedule() itself
2021-01-01T16:25:13 < mawk> using cmsis is fine marble_visions it's not stm32 specific
2021-01-01T16:25:41 < zyp> easier and faster*
2021-01-01T16:25:55 < marble_visions> mawk: yeah i guess it's more generic, but was wondering if there was something stm32 specific that i am missing from the stm32 libs
2021-01-01T16:26:04 < mawk> not that I can think of marble_visions 
2021-01-01T16:26:09 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-01T16:27:01 < zyp> in that case I guess it makes more sense to make the easy solution first, and then make a lock-free scheduler implementation later so I can pick the most appropriate one for the used architecture
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2021-01-01T16:28:26 < Steffanx> windows 8.1 too mawk, but you have to email them
2021-01-01T16:29:20 < mawk> lol
2021-01-01T16:29:56 < marble_visions> zyp: the way you framed it first sounds better.. implement the stubs where required
2021-01-01T16:30:08 < marble_visions> and don't add this complexity to the schedule() itself
2021-01-01T16:30:58 < zyp> well, a lock-free schedule() would be easier
2021-01-01T16:32:23 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b141@65.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-01T16:32:36 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of britbong land
2021-01-01T16:32:47 < Laurenceb> they listened to Tony B-liar
2021-01-01T16:32:49 < zyp> locking would be something like schedule(task& t) { critical lock; last->next = &t; last = last->next; }
2021-01-01T16:33:04 < Laurenceb> now everyone gets half vaccine
2021-01-01T16:33:15  * Laurenceb chops an stm32 in half and runs it at 6.6v
2021-01-01T16:33:51 < zyp> lock free would be a loop retrying to exchange the pointers until it succeeds
2021-01-01T16:33:54 < antto> THE SACRIFICE
2021-01-01T16:34:04 < Steffanx> You mean, first shot of the pfizer one Laurenceb ?
2021-01-01T16:34:09 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-01T16:34:15 < Laurenceb> this is full retard
2021-01-01T16:34:50 < Steffanx> I dont know about the time between the two shots, but arent they anticipating on having the next shot available by the time its needed
2021-01-01T16:34:52 < Laurenceb> a genius idea from the mind of Tomy Blair
2021-01-01T16:35:02 < Steffanx> Also the first shot is like ~50% right?
2021-01-01T16:35:03 < Laurenceb> the zano planning scheme
2021-01-01T16:35:17 < Laurenceb> y-yeah it will be ready in time, we will increase production
2021-01-01T16:35:27 < Steffanx> So, is it really THAT bad? I recall the belgians have the same plane
2021-01-01T16:35:46 < Steffanx> plan.
2021-01-01T16:35:59 < Laurenceb> the abount of bullshit being pumped out by gov people right now it ridiculous 
2021-01-01T16:36:19 < mawk> I tried to run in wine Steffanx but wine doesn't support this kind of usb device
2021-01-01T16:36:21 < Laurenceb> the vaccine was never designed to be injected that far apart
2021-01-01T16:36:21 < mawk> I have to make a vm
2021-01-01T16:36:35 < mawk> the vaccine is patriotic Laurenceb 
2021-01-01T16:36:37 < mawk> it will comply
2021-01-01T16:36:38 < mawk> don't worry
2021-01-01T16:36:40 < Laurenceb> just follow the manufacturers spec already
2021-01-01T16:36:50 < Steffanx> How far apart is it designed for?
2021-01-01T16:36:57 < Laurenceb> 3 to 4 weeks
2021-01-01T16:36:59 < antto> the virus ain't got a wristwatch
2021-01-01T16:37:18 < Steffanx> So, are they anticipating on having the next shots available by that time? 
2021-01-01T16:37:23 < Laurenceb> >trusting half baked idea from Tony Blair
2021-01-01T16:37:40 < Laurenceb> yeah supposedly they will increase production capacity and have more ready
2021-01-01T16:38:08 < antto> so, 2021, if i buy stuffz from .uk imma get punishet with customs, right?
2021-01-01T16:38:10 < Laurenceb> so their whole strategy is relying on things all going smoothly
2021-01-01T16:38:16 < antto> * punished
2021-01-01T16:38:27 < Laurenceb> antto: prob only eu customs right?
2021-01-01T16:38:57 < mawk> you haven't got anything to buy from uk anyway antto 
2021-01-01T16:39:13 < antto> mawk, when i use eb0y, i use the .co.uk one
2021-01-01T16:39:21 < mawk> why
2021-01-01T16:39:24 < mawk> use ebay.fr
2021-01-01T16:39:25 < antto> COZ ENGRISH
2021-01-01T16:39:26 < mawk> bigger country
2021-01-01T16:39:39 < antto> who gonna parles teh francais?
2021-01-01T16:39:40 < mawk> I'll be your translator
2021-01-01T16:39:43 < mawk> don't worry
2021-01-01T16:39:44 < antto> pls
2021-01-01T16:39:57 < mawk> antto porte un chapeau rigolo dans le métro
2021-01-01T16:40:03 < mawk> see, perfect french
2021-01-01T16:40:09 < mawk> with rhymes
2021-01-01T16:40:20 < antto> i don't see the rhymes
2021-01-01T16:40:28 < mawk> o o o o
2021-01-01T16:40:35 < mawk> anttO porte un chapEAU rigolO dans le métrO
2021-01-01T16:40:46 < Laurenceb> le reddit capitals meme
2021-01-01T16:40:54 < antto> uh-uh
2021-01-01T16:41:09 < mawk> capital punishment?
2021-01-01T16:42:02 < antto> i wanted to buy a bag of memes from loirens
2021-01-01T16:42:16 < antto> but i'll look for another source now
2021-01-01T16:43:22 < Laurenceb> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSG5kZu_EE1Oe8G3cngLTK6cimZ7jSmOqTxgA&usqp=CAU
2021-01-01T16:43:30 < Laurenceb> pic related, its mawk
2021-01-01T16:43:52 < mawk> lol what
2021-01-01T16:44:25 < Laurenceb> from #shameonoyouwarwick
2021-01-01T16:44:32 < Laurenceb> *onyou
2021-01-01T16:44:53 < Laurenceb>  - on twitter, sjw's dont use irc
2021-01-01T16:44:56 < antto> that looks more like a gurl
2021-01-01T16:45:03 < mawk> what happened in warwick
2021-01-01T16:45:18 < Laurenceb> someone shitposted on whatsapp
2021-01-01T16:45:41 < Steffanx> Isnt it time to go back to your solar baloons Laurenceb ?
2021-01-01T16:45:45 < mawk> it must be a real big shitpost for people to demonstrate
2021-01-01T16:45:47 < Laurenceb> and shit went down
2021-01-01T16:45:50 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-47147269
2021-01-01T16:46:10 < Laurenceb> I shitpost far harder but they never march over me :(
2021-01-01T16:46:15  * Laurenceb sad panada
2021-01-01T16:46:49 < Laurenceb> >10 year ban from university
2021-01-01T16:47:16 < Laurenceb> lulwut why not just "excile" them on introduce university capital punishment
2021-01-01T16:47:22 < Laurenceb> *or
2021-01-01T16:47:40 < mawk> exile
2021-01-01T16:47:41 < zyp> antto, why is your primask variable volatile? that seems unnecessary
2021-01-01T16:47:47 < Laurenceb> >students exiled to Greenland
2021-01-01T16:47:54 < Laurenceb> however you spell....
2021-01-01T16:48:06 < mawk> it's preventory volatile zyp 
2021-01-01T16:48:17 < mawk> you sprinkle them everywhere to make the code vroom better
2021-01-01T16:49:32 < antto> yeah i really.. sprinkled that on
2021-01-01T16:49:34 < antto> :/
2021-01-01T16:49:51 < antto> would it hurt?
2021-01-01T16:50:24 < Laurenceb> >higher education of privileged young men
2021-01-01T16:50:28  * Laurenceb kekking
2021-01-01T16:50:46 < Laurenceb> sjw bingo intensifies
2021-01-01T16:51:09 < antto> Laurenceb, (0,255,0)land
2021-01-01T16:51:35 < Laurenceb> I'm still dissapointed I havent managed to trigger anyone that hard
2021-01-01T16:51:44 < Laurenceb> must try harder
2021-01-01T16:52:04 < Steffanx> want a trigger?
2021-01-01T16:52:06  * antto has no idea wut loirens is talking about
2021-01-01T16:52:16 -!- mode/##stm32 [+q *!*@65.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by ChanServ
2021-01-01T16:52:26 < Steffanx> *triggered*
2021-01-01T16:52:59 -!- mode/##stm32 [-q *!*@65.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] by ChanServ
2021-01-01T16:53:02 < Laurenceb> my triggers are eestor, zano, emdrive, steorn, and Tony Blair
2021-01-01T16:53:31 < Steffanx> Just help out your buddy cracki, Laurenceb . He needs it
2021-01-01T16:54:02 < Steffanx> Do something meaningful
2021-01-01T17:01:26 < zyp> antto, I made my own RAII thing: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8clw5 :)
2021-01-01T17:02:31 < antto> huh wtf
2021-01-01T17:02:52 < antto> just like on paste.debian.net, some volatiles get colored green some blue
2021-01-01T17:04:32 < zyp> syntax highlighter probably doesn't understand the asm syntax and think it's a declaration or something, and then gets extra confused when there's the colons for the clobber lists in there
2021-01-01T17:04:57 < zyp> I'm not sure if clobbering memory is useful, so I left that out
2021-01-01T17:05:09 < zyp> after all, it's not really affecting any memory contents
2021-01-01T17:06:46 < zyp> but yeah, I guess it's useful in that you don't want it to read any memory contents before the critical section and keep it around until after
2021-01-01T17:06:56 < zyp> I mean
2021-01-01T17:08:36 < antto> *shrug*
2021-01-01T17:08:42 < antto> i don't speak asm
2021-01-01T17:10:00 < zyp> looks like it doesn't matter
2021-01-01T17:10:10 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/jf77Tx
2021-01-01T17:10:42 < zyp> it's reloading x right after entering the critical section despite just storing it
2021-01-01T17:23:07 < mawk> https://youtu.be/24Eva5Poqa4
2021-01-01T17:23:11 < mawk> listen to this Steffanx 
2021-01-01T17:23:45 < mawk> clobbering makes gcc unload its spill registers and so on
2021-01-01T17:23:56 < mawk> if memory isn't modified by the asm itself, don't clobber it
2021-01-01T17:24:01 < mawk> it's a costly operation
2021-01-01T17:24:18 < mawk> on some definition of costly
2021-01-01T17:25:36 < zyp> but the point of a critical section is to access memory that is modified by ISRs outside the critical section
2021-01-01T17:26:11 < mawk> this memory is already marked as volatile right
2021-01-01T17:26:15 < zyp> so you don't want to be using memory state you read before entering the critical section, and you don't want any pending writes when you leave it either
2021-01-01T17:26:18 < mawk> so gcc already knows
2021-01-01T17:26:27 < zyp> not necessarily, no
2021-01-01T17:26:58 < mawk> then marking the changed memory as volatile would be finer grained than clobbering the entirety of memory no?
2021-01-01T17:27:05 < mawk> probably it doesn't really matter
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2021-01-01T17:27:48 < zyp> I think it doesn't matter because asm volatile() in itself seems to clobber memory
2021-01-01T17:28:02 < zyp> marking the changed memory as volatile might not be what you want
2021-01-01T17:28:34 < mawk> iirc asm volatile just tells gcc to not reorder the asm statement with neighboring instructions
2021-01-01T17:28:38 < mawk> but maybe it's more
2021-01-01T17:28:54 < zyp> yes
2021-01-01T17:29:15 < antto> if you make the data volatile, then doesn't that cost "more" when that data is being handled?
2021-01-01T17:29:27 < zyp> I think that reordering prevention also blocks memory accesses
2021-01-01T17:29:29 < zyp> antto, correct
2021-01-01T17:29:37 < antto> so you might not want to do that
2021-01-01T17:29:50 < zyp> if you read and write it several times inside the critical section, volatile makes it unnecessary expensive
2021-01-01T17:29:59 < antto> eggzactly
2021-01-01T17:30:28 < antto> or outside the critical section
2021-01-01T17:30:38 < zyp> anyway, I'm gonna stick to doing it this way and not bother with fancy lock-free shit for now :)
2021-01-01T17:31:27 < zyp> performance-wise it doesn't really matter, and I want something that is usable across the entire cortex-m range and common risc-v implementations as well
2021-01-01T17:33:39 < antto> you removed the "memory" chunk from the asm thing?
2021-01-01T17:33:54 < antto> afaik that tells gcc there's a memory barried sumfin
2021-01-01T17:34:28 < antto> oh, and you left the primask to be public access
2021-01-01T17:34:48 < zyp> yeah, if you check the godbolt it just sticks primask in a reg
2021-01-01T17:35:33 < fenugrec> interesting read "cortex-M programming guide to memoery barrier isntructsion" https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dai0321/latest
2021-01-01T17:35:35 < zyp> no reason it has to go into ram
2021-01-01T17:35:47 < antto> if you have fancier stuff in the critical section, maybe it might not do it that way?
2021-01-01T17:35:54 < fenugrec> I'm practicing to type like karl
2021-01-01T17:36:05 < antto> altho you're not supposed to go vary fancy while interrupts are disabled
2021-01-01T17:36:08 < zyp> fenugrec, saw that the other day, planning to read through it some time
2021-01-01T17:36:33 < zyp> antto, it doesn't matter where it's stored as long as it is :)
2021-01-01T17:36:43 < zyp> so making it volatile is pointless
2021-01-01T17:36:46 < antto> well of course it's gonna get stored
2021-01-01T17:36:52 < antto> nah, i removed that
2021-01-01T17:37:21 < zyp> I'm gonna do that constructor delete thing later though, shit needs to be noncopyable
2021-01-01T17:37:28 < fenugrec> and, don't trust gcc C11 atomics on M0. Still broken
2021-01-01T17:38:02 < zyp> fenugrec, they build on the same base as std::atomic, right?
2021-01-01T17:38:13 < zyp> so you get a bunch of calls to __atomic_*-stubs
2021-01-01T17:38:35 < zyp> do they have default implementations, and if so what do they do?
2021-01-01T17:39:16 < fenugrec> not sure of they implementation - just that "atomic_flag_test_and_set" doesn't do the right thing, https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded/+bug/1764595
2021-01-01T17:40:13 < fenugrec> I'm surely not the first to have noticed, and filed a "question" in 2015. situation hasn't changed AFAIK. it just generates ldrb+strb , since M0 doesn't have ldrex + strex
2021-01-01T17:46:15 < zyp> fenugrec, this looks sane to me though: https://godbolt.org/z/orT7E9
2021-01-01T17:46:30 < zyp> assuming you have a sane __sync_val_compare_and_swap_1
2021-01-01T17:46:37 < antto> do interrupt service routines look the same between vendors?
2021-01-01T17:46:47 < mawk> you're the one supposed to write it antto 
2021-01-01T17:46:50 < zyp> antto, in what sense?
2021-01-01T17:46:50 < mawk> you're the vendor
2021-01-01T17:47:03 < antto> i mean the declaration and possible gcc attributes?
2021-01-01T17:47:24 < antto> like, on avr it's done with attributes or a macro ISR()
2021-01-01T17:47:25 < mawk> well that's just details
2021-01-01T17:47:31 < mawk> well here it's ARM
2021-01-01T17:47:33 < zyp> cortex-m ISRs are normal functions, no attributes needed
2021-01-01T17:47:34 < mawk> an ISR is a normal function
2021-01-01T17:47:45 < antto> really? o_O
2021-01-01T17:47:51 < mawk> and usually it's defined as weak symbol that points by default to a default handler that loops infinitely
2021-01-01T17:47:53 < zyp> the only question is how to get the function pointer into the vector table, and that differs between vendors
2021-01-01T17:48:00 < zyp> mawk, only on cortex-m
2021-01-01T17:48:02 < mawk> in st's HAL
2021-01-01T17:48:04 < mawk> yes
2021-01-01T17:48:09 < mawk> but cortex-M is all there is right?
2021-01-01T17:48:18 < zyp> on like every other platforms, ISRs have special return instructions
2021-01-01T17:48:37 < mawk> there is a gcc function attribute for the "iret" instruction of x86
2021-01-01T17:48:40 < mawk> but I never got it to work
2021-01-01T17:48:44 < fenugrec> zyp, I don't understand how yours compiled in that bl __sync... 
2021-01-01T17:48:53 < antto> on avr they are functions but with special attributes so gcc knows wut to do
2021-01-01T17:49:17 < zyp> fenugrec, well, that's godbolt
2021-01-01T17:49:30 < zyp> let me try it locally
2021-01-01T17:50:54 < zyp> oh, you're right, latest GAE fucks it up
2021-01-01T17:51:17 < zyp> ah, yeah
2021-01-01T17:51:18 < fenugrec> yes, and gcc-9, and gcc 4.9, and probably others
2021-01-01T17:51:39 < zyp> «ARM gcc 7.2.1 (none)» on godbolt also fucks up
2021-01-01T17:51:55 < zyp> seems to be the none-variant that is broken then
2021-01-01T17:52:04 < fenugrec> aah could very well be that
2021-01-01T17:52:15 < fenugrec> that's the only variant that matters : )
2021-01-01T17:52:24 < zyp> :)
2021-01-01T17:53:10 < zyp> have you tried doing the same with std::atomic? it'd be interesting to see if it breaks in the same way or not
2021-01-01T17:54:01 < fenugrec> they've known about this for years : 2015-04-24 " hanks for reporting. We are going to mark cortex-m0/cortex-m0+ as not supporting c11 atomic. Also the gcc will be updated to stop generating unsafe code sequence. ". hahah. 
2021-01-01T17:54:10 < fenugrec> Nah, I don't c++
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2021-01-01T17:58:48 < antto> hm, so, to implement an interrupt, i just gotta define a function with the right name?
2021-01-01T17:59:23 < zyp> fenugrec, looks like it produces exactly the same code: https://godbolt.org/z/Ea78hE
2021-01-01T17:59:33 < fenugrec> antto, if on gcc, you need the right attributes, name is irrelevant
2021-01-01T17:59:43 < zyp> which is interesting
2021-01-01T18:00:01 < zyp> because I've tried other atomic types on that compiler with m0, and they produce saner looking code
2021-01-01T18:00:09 < zyp> maybe it's just atomic_flag that's broken?
2021-01-01T18:00:17 < fenugrec> zyp, cool, thanks for testing - feel free to file another thing on GAE launchpad thing... maybe that'll get their attention vs C
2021-01-01T18:00:58 < fenugrec> yeah - and _test_and_set really needs an interrupt disable+restore around it on M0, which they were maybe reluctant to add. So instead they decided to generate broken code
2021-01-01T18:02:06 < antto> oh, i found an enum with the IRQ numbers and what the interrupts are for
2021-01-01T18:02:09 < fenugrec> I mean, the window is really short, between ldrb and strb, but IMO that's unacceptable
2021-01-01T18:02:39 < antto> and a typedef struct _DeviceVectors
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2021-01-01T18:04:13 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-01-01T18:05:25 < antto> okay, found some
2021-01-01T18:05:27 < antto> void SERCOM5_0_Handler(void) __attribute__((weak, alias("Dummy_Handler"))); /* SERCOM5_0 */
2021-01-01T18:08:51 < mawk> this saleae logic software is pretty nice
2021-01-01T18:09:02 < mawk> yes it's what I told you antto 
2021-01-01T18:09:11 < mawk> it's weak alias
2021-01-01T18:09:27 < Steffanx> which version is that mawk ?
2021-01-01T18:09:29 < mawk> and if you define it as strong symbol then it will be called instead of Dummy_Handler
2021-01-01T18:09:34 < mawk> no idea Steffanx 
2021-01-01T18:09:41 < mawk> it just says "saleae logic analyzer 24MHz 8CH"
2021-01-01T18:09:42 < mawk> version 1?
2021-01-01T18:09:52 < Steffanx> the software version
2021-01-01T18:09:56 < mawk> the latest
2021-01-01T18:09:59 < mawk> 1.2.18
2021-01-01T18:10:12 < Steffanx> logic 2 is ... javascriptish
2021-01-01T18:10:38 < mawk> ah
2021-01-01T18:11:07 < mawk> should I try 2 then?
2021-01-01T18:11:19 < PaulFertser> mawk: are you sure it's better than pulseview?
2021-01-01T18:11:41 < mawk> I haven't tried it yet PaulFertser , but it works with linux too? with the saleaeaeaeae thing
2021-01-01T18:12:03 < PaulFertser> mawk: pulseview works everywhere
2021-01-01T18:12:08 < Steffanx> that saleaeae is the old one mawk . :(
2021-01-01T18:15:06 < mawk> so what?
2021-01-01T18:15:11 < mawk> 8 channels sound plenty
2021-01-01T18:15:13 < mawk> 24MHz too
2021-01-01T18:16:32 < mawk> but I'm not sure it's working
2021-01-01T18:16:39 < mawk> it says "read timeout when reading memory"
2021-01-01T18:17:19 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser . yes its better than pulseview.
2021-01-01T18:17:34 < Steffanx> messed around for 3 seconds and already seem to have found the first bug. or whatever i should call it
2021-01-01T18:18:05 < mawk> with the old logic software it works though
2021-01-01T18:18:11 < mawk> Qt 1 - electron 0
2021-01-01T18:18:13 < Steffanx> When in the time bar you open the menu, select "create marker here" it doesnt do shit.
2021-01-01T18:18:28 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: would you spend time writing a decoder for a program that supports just one brand of LAs?
2021-01-01T18:18:32 < Steffanx> but when you double click on the same bar, it will generate a marker, but it starts at "B" 
2021-01-01T18:18:44 < Steffanx> apparently it did generate a marker, but its not visible.
2021-01-01T18:19:53 < Steffanx> And where is my list with markers?
2021-01-01T18:20:58 < mawk> apparently the error is tht usb is too slow
2021-01-01T18:21:01 < mawk> at this sample rate
2021-01-01T18:21:03 < mawk> lame
2021-01-01T18:21:25 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: maybe from a technical viewpoint pulseview is better, but the UI ... meh
2021-01-01T18:21:53 < mawk> maybe I need a shorter cable
2021-01-01T18:22:29 < mawk> 2 MS/s is the limit
2021-01-01T18:31:37 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser . Im still not sure how serious you were. I just generated some random signal, click on a random decoder and it crashed. So.. yeah.....
2021-01-01T18:32:35 < mawk> windows has crashes too
2021-01-01T18:32:36 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that's odd, I used Pulseview many times successfully.
2021-01-01T18:33:34 < Steffanx> this was the official release btw, so perhaps a bit old. Maybe nightly is even more stable than this
2021-01-01T18:34:57 < mawk> logic software says channel 1 is named channel 0
2021-01-01T18:35:07 < mawk> this is unbearable
2021-01-01T18:35:14 < mawk> but it can decode my i2c so I guess it's working
2021-01-01T18:35:30 < Steffanx> my saleae starts at channel 0
2021-01-01T18:35:39 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210101173536009.png
2021-01-01T18:35:47 < mawk> then you're weird Steffanx 
2021-01-01T18:37:18 < Steffanx> Lunix is weird too mawk 
2021-01-01T18:38:52 < mawk> no it's not
2021-01-01T18:38:57 < mawk> and you should use it
2021-01-01T18:40:41 < Steffanx> Anyway, FLASH is officially dead now \o/
2021-01-01T18:40:48 < Steffanx> Flash*
2021-01-01T18:41:47 < mawk> FLASH
2021-01-01T18:42:25 < Steffanx> ok mawk 
2021-01-01T18:46:44 < mawk> On some computers, the Original Logic might not be able to consistently capture at its maximum sample rate of 24 MSPS or even at 16 MSPS. However, on most computers, the device should be able to reliably capture at 12 MSPS. This is due to its small device side buffer.
2021-01-01T18:46:47 < mawk> even 4 doesn't work here
2021-01-01T18:50:09 < antto> huh, would interrupts be enabled by default, i can't tell wtf's going on
2021-01-01T18:50:31 < mawk> what's happening?
2021-01-01T18:50:40 < PaulFertser> mawk: try pulseview
2021-01-01T18:50:42 < mawk> use gdb antto 
2021-01-01T18:50:51 < mawk> you think it will fix this issue PaulFertser ?
2021-01-01T18:50:59 < mawk> it seems hardware related
2021-01-01T18:51:03 < PaulFertser> mawk: and better use a dedicated USB port and PC with idle CPU
2021-01-01T18:51:30 < PaulFertser> mawk: pulseview/libsigrok is using different fx2lp firmware, it just streams the data via USB, does it pretty fast.
2021-01-01T18:51:32 < mawk> the LA is on its own usb2 port, which is the only usb2 port of the pc
2021-01-01T18:51:40 < mawk> ah I see
2021-01-01T18:52:03 < PaulFertser> mawk: but once it fails to write a buffer it stops, that's why I say spare CPU cycles should be there
2021-01-01T18:52:40 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-01T18:52:49  * mawk closes google chrome
2021-01-01T18:53:03 < PaulFertser> No idea how original salea firmware works.
2021-01-01T18:56:11 < antto> if i put a breakpoint in the handler - nuffin
2021-01-01T18:56:26 < mawk> show code antto 
2021-01-01T18:56:36 < mawk> and show your startup assembly file
2021-01-01T18:56:38 < antto> it's too atmel-ish
2021-01-01T18:56:41 < mawk> where you put the vector table
2021-01-01T18:56:47 < mawk> well yes don't be atmelish
2021-01-01T18:56:49 < mawk> be armish
2021-01-01T18:56:58 < mawk> fire up cubemx, generate the code, and look at it
2021-01-01T18:57:01 < mawk> you will see how it works
2021-01-01T18:57:11 < antto> <nope.gif>
2021-01-01T18:57:13 < mawk> lol
2021-01-01T18:57:15 < mawk> yes
2021-01-01T18:57:17 < mawk> do it
2021-01-01T18:57:22 < mawk> or show your code
2021-01-01T18:57:42 < bitmask> anyone own an airbrush?
2021-01-01T18:58:14 < zyp> my dad does, I played around with it as a kid
2021-01-01T18:59:23 < bitmask> im wondering if i should order the 0.5mm nozzle kit for bigger stuffs
2021-01-01T18:59:49 < bitmask> not sure it makes that much of a difference though, its only $25 though
2021-01-01T18:59:55 < bitmask> the one it comes with is 0.3 or 0.35
2021-01-01T19:01:50 < antto> bluh, in which file should i be eyeballing the interrupt vector stuff? assembler listing .lss?
2021-01-01T19:01:59 < antto> hm, or was it the .map thing
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2021-01-01T19:04:43 < mawk> do objdump on the elf antto 
2021-01-01T19:04:53 < mawk> but why would you eyeball it?? just look at your startup assembly file
2021-01-01T19:05:15 < antto> what to look for in it?
2021-01-01T19:05:36 < mawk> arm-none-eabi-objdump -x yourfile.elf | less
2021-01-01T19:05:44 < mawk> look what data is at the very start of the elf
2021-01-01T19:05:53 < mawk> with ST's hal it's in a section named isr_vector
2021-01-01T19:05:54 < antto> it's a .c file btw
2021-01-01T19:05:58 < mawk> what
2021-01-01T19:06:07 < mawk> maybe that works, dunno
2021-01-01T19:06:16 < antto> gcc/gcc/same54_startup.c or so
2021-01-01T19:06:16 < mawk> look for something placed at beggining of the flash
2021-01-01T19:06:33 < mawk> it should have pointer to stuff like reset_handler
2021-01-01T19:08:30 < emeb> Has anyone here ever used the HS PHY on the STM32F723/730?
2021-01-01T19:08:57 < zyp> emeb, not yet, what issues are you having?
2021-01-01T19:09:20 < emeb> zyp: not having any issues. Just wondering if there was any experience out there.
2021-01-01T19:09:41 < antto> i do have this: __attribute__((section(".vectors"))) const DeviceVectors exception_table
2021-01-01T19:09:43  * emeb doesn't have any F723/F730 HW
2021-01-01T19:10:07 < zyp> ah, same, I see it's not present in the f746 on the discovery
2021-01-01T19:10:31 < Thorn> are all 800MHz MP1s rev. Z?
2021-01-01T19:10:41 < emeb> yeah - it's pretty odd that those two parts appear to be the only HS parts in the whole lineup.
2021-01-01T19:11:20 < Thorn> I ordered 153dab1 and hoping to not receive rev. B
2021-01-01T19:13:24 < mawk> yes antto then that is your vector table most likely
2021-01-01T19:13:34 < mawk> .equ  BootRAM,        0xF1E0F85F
2021-01-01T19:13:40 < mawk> what is this already? in ST's generated assembly code
2021-01-01T19:14:01 < mawk> it's an instruction "ldr.w   pc, [pc, #-480]" but maybe that's a coincidence
2021-01-01T19:14:18 < Steffanx> Why dont you give it a try with basic stuff to see if you even like it, bitmask 
2021-01-01T19:14:35 < Steffanx> Instead of spending all your free money right away 😅
2021-01-01T19:15:22 < emeb> trying is hard. spending is easy.
2021-01-01T19:15:26 < antto> in the map file i saw the dummy_handler and all unused handlers were listed under it, mine however is in its own place SERCOM5_0_Handler
2021-01-01T19:15:31 < zyp> emeb, from a programmers side I expect it'd be pretty much the same as using an external phy except you don't have to do the GPIO/AF setup for ULPI
2021-01-01T19:15:48 < antto> so i'd think i've done that properly.. imma look for something else
2021-01-01T19:15:49 < zyp> and I guess PHY might have its own clock to turn on and stuff
2021-01-01T19:16:03 < zyp> HS PHYs generally run from 60 MHz
2021-01-01T19:16:09 < emeb> zyp: yep. there seems to be some sort of HS PHY controller block with clocking PLLs that needs to be setup right.
2021-01-01T19:16:24 < emeb> but that's a "one and done" thing.
2021-01-01T19:16:40 < mawk> ¿ 0xF1E0F85F ?
2021-01-01T19:16:52 < zyp> are there any demoboards (nucleo or discovery) with either of those two?
2021-01-01T19:18:06 < mawk> yes you probably did it properly antto , but please show code
2021-01-01T19:18:16 < emeb> Yes - there's an F723 Discovery board. I even have one. :P
2021-01-01T19:18:17 < mawk> show your startup .c file stuff, and show you you defined SRCOM5_0_Handler
2021-01-01T19:18:55 < antto> the sh*t is too huge to paste
2021-01-01T19:20:08 < mawk> zip it
2021-01-01T19:20:14 < mawk> put in zippyshare.com
2021-01-01T19:20:19 < antto> eww
2021-01-01T19:20:29 < mawk> .tar.gz it then
2021-01-01T19:22:48 < zyp> emeb, uh
2021-01-01T19:23:09 < zyp> 18:09:43  * emeb doesn't have any F723/F730 HW
2021-01-01T19:23:11 < zyp> 18:18:16 < emeb> Yes - there's an F723 Discovery board. I even have one. :P
2021-01-01T19:23:38 < emeb> :)
2021-01-01T19:24:20 < zyp> maybe I should get one, for my neverending collection of unused discovery boards :)
2021-01-01T19:24:37 < zyp> another HS capable board would be good though
2021-01-01T19:24:54 < zyp> should do proper HS support when I'm overhauling laks.usb
2021-01-01T19:25:19 < zyp> by the way, did I mention I got an ECPIX-5 the other day?
2021-01-01T19:25:37 < kakium69> hello evenings crew
2021-01-01T19:27:00 < mawk> ¡¿ 0xF1E0F85F ?!
2021-01-01T19:27:05 < mawk> you all know but no-one wants to tell me
2021-01-01T19:27:14 < mawk> calimero me
2021-01-01T19:27:20 < emeb> zyp: I'd forgotten I had that disco board.
2021-01-01T19:27:56 < emeb> bought it long ago when the F7 first came out, threw it in a box and never used it.
2021-01-01T19:28:14 < emeb> but it does bring out the OTG_HS port to a separate jack.
2021-01-01T19:34:19 < zyp> IIRC f746 disco does too
2021-01-01T19:34:28 < zyp> but only the FS phy
2021-01-01T19:35:02 < zyp> or maybe it actually has an ULPI PHY
2021-01-01T19:35:44 < zyp> ah, yeah, it does
2021-01-01T19:36:18 < zyp> no immediate need for f723 disco then :)
2021-01-01T19:37:03 < zyp> emeb, did you see my async scheduler stuff the other day?
2021-01-01T19:38:01 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/QMUAB#line-55 <- I've got enough pieces in place that I can write code that awaits interrupts now :)
2021-01-01T19:38:03 < emeb> zyp: I did not
2021-01-01T19:39:12 < emeb> nice work - soon laks will be a full RTOS. :)
2021-01-01T19:39:45 < zyp> well, I'm kinda going away from traditional multithreading with this
2021-01-01T19:41:30 < zyp> the multithreading code has never been super good, and I'm not using it in any real projects, so I'm probably gonna throw it out
2021-01-01T19:41:51 < kakium69> why you reinvent rtos
2021-01-01T19:41:55 < zyp> and then possibly reintroduce it later in a manner that plays well along with the async stuff
2021-01-01T19:43:45 < emeb> presumably the a,b,c foo processes are just dummy stubs that don't do anything in this example?
2021-01-01T19:46:04 < zyp> emeb, here's a larger/newer snippet: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/MNQrc
2021-01-01T19:47:33 < antto> hm, there seems to be also another issue here that is bigger, it seems this thing is running slower *sometimes*
2021-01-01T19:47:50 < Thorn> btw I learned that simatic plcs are built on a non-preemptivr rtos
2021-01-01T19:47:51 < zyp> emeb, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EM1v3.png
2021-01-01T19:48:24 < antto> in main() it gets eventually into the infinite loop which only does a 500ms busy wait and toggle a LED, i noticed this LED sometimes blinks slower
2021-01-01T19:49:40 < emeb> zyp: very cool.
2021-01-01T19:50:55 < antto> about 3 or 4 times slower
2021-01-01T19:57:41 < zyp> emeb, not super happy about the need for a heap, but on the other hand this completely removes the need for thread stacks
2021-01-01T19:59:00 < zyp> and I guess with full RAII throughout, no naked new/deletes, the risk of memory leaks are fairly low
2021-01-01T19:59:41 < emeb> zyp: I assume that your existing infrastructure (laks?) handles all the HW setup/teardown for stuff like USART & IRQs etc?
2021-01-01T19:59:56 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-01T20:00:06 < zyp> no magic there
2021-01-01T20:00:41 < emeb> sufficiently advanced technology. :)
2021-01-01T20:01:05 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/pYcXk <- the first half of main() is not so interesting, so I omitted it from the paste earlier
2021-01-01T20:01:14 < zyp> well, not first half, just first lines
2021-01-01T20:01:37 < emeb> ya
2021-01-01T20:02:09 < zyp> I'm running this in renode, so I haven't bothered with RCC/GPIO setup, renode apparently assumes all periphs are clocked by default :)
2021-01-01T20:02:11 < emeb> gets the job done. probably way smaller than equivalent HAL mess.
2021-01-01T20:03:01 < Thorn> zyp https://sci-hub.do/https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8995550/
2021-01-01T20:03:38 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/nJvix <- got this pile of newlib stubs for now, I guess eventually I'll include that in laks in some way or another
2021-01-01T20:03:41 < zyp> at least _sbrk
2021-01-01T20:04:28 < Thorn> zyp https://github.com/bbelson2/coro-mc-wwl-code
2021-01-01T20:04:33 < emeb> yep. the same stuff over and over.
2021-01-01T20:04:47 < Thorn> they developed a method to get rid of malloc
2021-01-01T20:05:20 < zyp> Thorn, ah, that's the document you mentioned a while ago, I assume
2021-01-01T20:05:26 < Thorn> yessir
2021-01-01T20:07:35 < zyp> I've thought about ways to avoid malloc too
2021-01-01T20:08:27 < zyp> overloading new/delete is easy, the question is just where to get memory from if not the heap :)
2021-01-01T20:09:06 < zyp> it should be reasonably easy to identify each call site and how much memory it asks for, so you can return a static buffer for each call site
2021-01-01T20:09:39 < emeb> what - preallocate at compile time?
2021-01-01T20:09:44 < Thorn> that's what they do by using 2-stage compilation
2021-01-01T20:09:54 < zyp> but doing it that way implies there can only be a single instance of each coroutine at a time
2021-01-01T20:11:22 < zyp> alternatively it could be stored in the awaitable future object associated with the coroutine, since it has to exist as long as the coroutine is being awaited
2021-01-01T20:12:23 < zyp> I suspect that's what they do in your paper, because then I figure you need to compile in two stages so you can get the allocation sizes and then go back and patch them into the objects
2021-01-01T20:14:05 < zyp> not sure how that would work out with nested awaits though, since the root coroutine needs to store all its children's frames inside its own frame
2021-01-01T20:14:50 < zyp> I should probably read the paper before I speculate too much :)
2021-01-01T20:15:41 < zyp> I guess yet another way would be to use a pool allocator rather than a heap
2021-01-01T20:16:29 < zyp> if leaks are avoided, the only problems left are speed and fragmentation, and a pool of fixed size objects is fast and doesn't fragment
2021-01-01T20:17:01 < zyp> assumes all coroutines have fairly even frame sizes though, otherwise it gets too wasteful to be useful
2021-01-01T20:17:19 < antto> could the debugger be causing the chip to run somehow slower?
2021-01-01T20:17:37 < zyp> yes?
2021-01-01T20:17:49 < zyp> if it's actually doing something, like semihosting or whatever
2021-01-01T20:17:51 < antto> altho i tried unplugging it and power off/on and i still get this
2021-01-01T20:17:58 < zyp> then no
2021-01-01T20:18:21 < antto> so maybe the clock init doesn't always work or something
2021-01-01T20:18:29 < antto> meeeh
2021-01-01T20:19:15 < Steffanx> Reminds me of LPC/NXP where some delay was too short, so sometimes the pll/clock init failed.
2021-01-01T20:19:34 < zyp> fun
2021-01-01T20:19:57 < Steffanx> Yeah, great fun when using vendor libs.\
2021-01-01T20:20:18 < antto> i got two ext crystals, also internal clocks and all kinds of funky sh*t
2021-01-01T20:20:41 < emeb> I ran into a weird one recently - using cycle counter on H730 @ 550MHz - some of the delays I was asking for were > 2^31 so the wraparound math was failing.
2021-01-01T20:21:46 < antto> nah, this ain't it, coz i had noticed it also before, inbetween reprogramming and/or attaching with the debugger, sometimes this LED blinks once per second, other times much slower
2021-01-01T20:22:05 < antto> the whole startup is slower too, i have a bunch of 1s delays before the main loop
2021-01-01T20:22:13 < Steffanx> When it happens check clock settings and if it actually runs from the correct clocks?
2021-01-01T20:22:42 < antto> i'm not touching the actual clock init code, that's from the autogenerated sh*t
2021-01-01T20:22:52 < Steffanx> Yeah, i mean check the registers
2021-01-01T20:22:58 < antto> burried deep into the macaroni
2021-01-01T20:23:28 < emeb> use the get_sysclock() routine to print out clock freq to your debugger 
2021-01-01T20:23:35 < emeb> see if it makes sense.
2021-01-01T20:23:35 < antto> i am working on getting a debug usart transmit working
2021-01-01T20:23:42 < emeb> +100
2021-01-01T20:24:11 < Steffanx> Perhaps it will continue to run from some internal oscillator when the external one is not stable, or not enough?
2021-01-01T20:24:11 < emeb> but if your clock is wrong freq then UART baudrate will be wrong. :P
2021-01-01T20:24:31 < antto> yeah
2021-01-01T20:24:39 < Steffanx> So i would check what clock it runs from when it happens. And try to back trace where that could fail
2021-01-01T20:25:19 < antto> Steffanx, on xmega the thing always starts on 2MHz internal and i think if the ext crystal fails to stabilize it switches back to internal
2021-01-01T20:25:32 < antto> so i'd think that might be also the case here
2021-01-01T20:25:42 < antto> it's dumb to let the chip stop cuz no clock
2021-01-01T20:26:25 < Steffanx> And this is exactly what happened with the LPC, it had a busy loop to delay and then check if external source was stable.  
2021-01-01T20:26:27 < antto> hm, or more like, if it doesn't stabilize - it does _not_ switch to it, remains at 2MHz
2021-01-01T20:26:36 < Steffanx> but the actual time it waited was like... WAAAY too short
2021-01-01T20:27:46 < antto> i am getting some non-zero bytes from the UART but basically the interrupt isn't getting called
2021-01-01T20:27:47 < Steffanx> Funny part is that it actually worked for most of the targets, except for a few.. and then just sometimes.
2021-01-01T20:28:19 < antto> my usart class transmits the very first byte directly, and uses interrupts to continue transmitting the rest of the bytes
2021-01-01T20:28:32 < antto> DRE interrupt basically
2021-01-01T20:30:31 < antto> hm, i have indeed not touched the crystal startup times in atmel.start
2021-01-01T20:30:42 < antto> they are in the default, minimum setting - 31uS
2021-01-01T20:37:14 < antto> after reset, the thing would run on 48MHz i think
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2021-01-01T22:20:27 < emeb> Chasing down low level audio noise in my bench-top development setup. Discovered that the STLink V3 mini that I was using generates a lot of broadband audio noise.
2021-01-01T22:20:49 < emeb> Just hooking the GND pins of the SWD connector causes loud "shhhhhhhhhh".
2021-01-01T22:21:04 < emeb> but using the STLink V2.1 on an old Nucleo board is quiet.
2021-01-01T22:23:20 < zyp> fun
2021-01-01T22:24:07 < emeb> ground loops are always a hoot.
2021-01-01T22:26:46 < mawk> get the stlink-v3-isol emeb 
2021-01-01T22:26:48 < mawk> problem solved
2021-01-01T22:27:11 < mawk> antto: if you don't how your code, you don't have the right to complain
2021-01-01T22:27:15 < mawk> show
2021-01-01T22:27:43  * mawk secret plan to steal people's IP
2021-01-01T22:28:00 < mawk> how did I do to live without a logic analyzer all these years
2021-01-01T22:29:25 < Steffanx> lol mawk 
2021-01-01T22:29:27 < Steffanx> poor mawk 
2021-01-01T22:29:29 < Steffanx> noob mawk 
2021-01-01T22:29:36 < zyp> Thorn, interesting article, bit shorter than I expected, not much about how they did it, just what they did
2021-01-01T22:30:14 < zyp> https://github.com/bbelson2/coro-mc-wwl-code/blob/master/Library.md <- I guess that's what's here
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2021-01-01T23:08:19 < antto> the ASF chunk of the code is a whole ton of files
2021-01-01T23:09:42 < zyp> and?
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2021-01-01T23:20:48 < Steffanx> So dump the ASF, antto 
2021-01-01T23:22:14 < Steffanx> Perhaps ASF is just Antto's Sad Fantasy and you should give up on this sadness
2021-01-01T23:33:42 < antto> i should've added a hardware reset button on this >:/
2021-01-01T23:34:17 < antto> i think i found what's making it run slower, my fault (of course)
2021-01-01T23:35:17 < emeb> mawk: I've got an isolator around here somewhere. Need to see if that helps, but honestly, the V2.1 is fine for most of what I do.
2021-01-01T23:38:59 < Thorn> https://github.com/Misaka0x2730/RailLink
2021-01-01T23:39:11 < Thorn> emeb ^
2021-01-01T23:39:41 < Thorn> where the Chinese simply pirate, Russians improve lol
2021-01-01T23:40:59 < antto> in soviet russia, the code writes itself
2021-01-01T23:44:01 < zyp> reading that barrier doc that was linked earlier now, says «All use of DMB is redundant due to the inherent ordering of all loads and stores…»
2021-01-01T23:44:22 < zyp> doc only covers m0-m4 though, not m7
2021-01-01T23:44:40 < mawk> calm down Steffanx 
2021-01-01T23:45:34 < Steffanx> Uh?
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2021-01-01T23:58:32 < antto> "For the NVIC to activate the interrupt, it must be enabled in the NVIC interrupt enable register (SETENA/ CLRENA bits in ISER/ICER). The NVIC interrupt priority registers IPR0-IPR7 provide a priority field for each interrupt."
2021-01-01T23:58:40 < antto> oh, okay
--- Day changed Sat Jan 02 2021
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2021-01-02T00:00:38 < fenugrec> zyp, yeah, except for some edgecase where the <= 2 opcodes after interrupts are disabled can still run before primask is actually propagated ? or something like that, I forget the details
2021-01-02T00:01:13 < zyp> no
2021-01-02T00:01:55 < zyp> «The CPSID instruction is self-synchronized to the instruction stream and there is no requirement to insert memory barrier instructions after CPSID.»
2021-01-02T00:03:06 < zyp> however, after CPSIE, one or two instructions might execute before a pending ISR
2021-01-02T00:03:31 < fenugrec> yeah I had it backwards. p.25 "  if an interrupt was already in the pending state, the processor can execute up to two extra instructions after enabling the interrupt in the NVIC before executing the interrupt service routine.
2021-01-02T00:03:56 < fenugrec> the opposite would've been dumb... execute cpsid and interrupts can still fire : )
2021-01-02T00:04:14 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-02T00:04:21 < zyp> ah, NVIC disabling is different
2021-01-02T00:04:23 < zyp> page 27
2021-01-02T00:05:04 < zyp> you might need dsb/isb after NVIC disable
2021-01-02T00:05:56 < qyx> karlp: did you try zephyr? someone mentioned that iirc
2021-01-02T00:06:02 < qyx> what was your exact felings?
2021-01-02T00:06:06 < qyx> +e
2021-01-02T00:06:15 < qyx> -s
2021-01-02T00:06:43 < zyp> IIRC something about them having cute examples for various devboards, but a lot of hassle to add a new board
2021-01-02T00:07:06 < qyx> so far it looks to me the same
2021-01-02T00:08:05 < zyp> to me zephyr looks like the kind of project that manages to be too simple and too complicated at the same time
2021-01-02T00:08:14 < Steffanx> Exactly what zyp said
2021-01-02T00:08:40 < Steffanx> Re: mr karls complaints
2021-01-02T00:09:34 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/eCYc3xm.png
2021-01-02T00:09:37 < antto> \o/
2021-01-02T00:10:53 < fenugrec> "delay_ms(100); delay_ms(1000); delay_ms(1000);", you know you can replace that with one line right
2021-01-02T00:10:59 < Steffanx> Imagine using a baudrate of 19373.8263 antto 
2021-01-02T00:12:28 < antto> f*ck it, muh usart transmit wurkz
2021-01-02T00:13:09 < antto> i think i deserve a PEPSI now
2021-01-02T00:13:31 < Steffanx> Club mate...
2021-01-02T00:14:34 < effractur> club mate :D
2021-01-02T00:16:02 < emeb> Thorn: nice.
2021-01-02T00:30:59 < zyp> Thorn, I wish gcc was better at inlining and folding coroutines
2021-01-02T00:31:51 < zyp> particularly the generator stuff that doesn't need any waiting at all
2021-01-02T00:33:58 < zyp> e.g. this thing: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/YCz9k, the whole range based for loop could in principle fold into for(int i = 0; i < 5; i++) with no overhead
2021-01-02T00:35:42 < zyp> but as it is it still does a heap allocation of coroutine state and everything
2021-01-02T00:44:03 < fenugrec> OT : suggestions for a USB-SATA adapter like this https://www.tripplite.com/usb-3.0-superspeed-to-serial-ata-sata-ide-adapter-for-2.5-inch-3.5-inch-hard-drives~U338000 but that supports UASP ? (i.e. SMART etc)
2021-01-02T00:44:37 < mawk> send me riglol Steffanx 
2021-01-02T00:44:41 < mawk> and I send you some saucisson
2021-01-02T00:44:45 < mawk> and foie gras
2021-01-02T00:44:52 < fenugrec> interesting but looks immense and $, https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/sdocku33ebv
2021-01-02T00:45:30 < mawk> don't they all support smart?
2021-01-02T00:45:34 < mawk> they do ATA passthrough or someting
2021-01-02T00:46:01 < zyp> fenugrec, take your pick? https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=uasp+dock
2021-01-02T00:46:09 < fenugrec> I read some don't - they do a MSC thing with "not enough" passthru
2021-01-02T00:46:48 < fenugrec> yeah not ali. dont want to wait X months and would prefer a manufacturer with a name
2021-01-02T00:47:13 < mawk> just buy a random one
2021-01-02T00:47:17 < mawk> and it will likely do smart
2021-01-02T00:47:22 < mawk> and if it doesn't, buy another one
2021-01-02T00:47:54 < zyp> also, I'm not sure, but I were of the impression that both MSC BBB and MSC UASP were just SCSI transports, so it sounds a bit weird that you can't just run the same commands via both
2021-01-02T00:48:10 < zyp> unless the adapter is actually proxying the commands between USB and the drive
2021-01-02T00:49:22 < zyp> the main difference between BBB and UASP AFAIK is that the former is a simple ordered request/response pattern, while the latter allows multiple outstanding commands with replies arriving out of order
2021-01-02T00:49:37 < fenugrec> I think a lot of MSC implementations are too thick. Just remembering some reviews
2021-01-02T00:50:02 < fenugrec> "  there is no S.M.A.R.T. support through IDE". ok, can live with that; maybe smart works for sata drives
2021-01-02T01:01:47 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WVzlXL8l8_acVj8M2r4b7FbMfZm4rkeu/view?usp=sharing chain tensioner non-catastrophic failure
2021-01-02T01:01:55 < antto> Steffanx, it's 19226.1
2021-01-02T01:02:13 < kakium69> see left corner inside the cam head
2021-01-02T01:03:36 < kakium69> I wonder what valve lifters are made of
2021-01-02T01:03:41 < kakium69> shinium?
2021-01-02T01:04:17 < kakium69> just shining after cam lobes have rubbed them for millions of times
2021-01-02T01:05:09 < fenugrec> VR6 ?
2021-01-02T01:05:20 < kakium69> no this is not engine of gods
2021-01-02T01:05:22 < kakium69> just v6
2021-01-02T01:05:39 < fenugrec> 5DOHC, what's that on
2021-01-02T01:05:55 < qyx> is imgur.com down or what
2021-01-02T01:06:00 < kakium69> passat ;p
2021-01-02T01:06:25 < qyx> no, works in a provate window
2021-01-02T01:06:47 < kakium69> you banned?
2021-01-02T01:09:17 < qyx> any particular reason zephyr reinvented git submodules with their west build thing?
2021-01-02T01:09:38 < qyx> so clone main repo, read some mainfest yaml file, clone additional repos
2021-01-02T01:09:46 < qyx> why is life so hard in 2020
2021-01-02T01:12:05 < qyx> oh 2021
2021-01-02T01:12:17 < kakium69> yo
2021-01-02T01:12:38 < kakium69> what the heck it's yet another year
2021-01-02T01:13:47 < antto> mawk, here it is, steal it: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2ef256c0/
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2021-01-02T01:16:11 < Laurenceb> >when u work hard to get into Cambridge uni
2021-01-02T01:16:19 < Laurenceb> >but your prof is Victoria Bateman
2021-01-02T01:17:36 < Laurenceb> https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Finews-prd-a-images.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F02%2Fbrexit-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
2021-01-02T01:17:58 < kakium69> brittish politics 2020?
2021-01-02T01:18:17 < Laurenceb> lollllllllll
2021-01-02T01:18:24 < Laurenceb> she got b& from pronhub
2021-01-02T01:18:42 < Laurenceb> >video flagged for verification
2021-01-02T01:18:55 < antto> dafuq, is that gurl nekkid?
2021-01-02T01:19:04 < Laurenceb> pretty sure she isnt underage tbh
2021-01-02T01:19:12 < Laurenceb> antto: she refuses to wear clothes
2021-01-02T01:19:31 < Laurenceb> because they are created by the patriarchy to oppress her
2021-01-02T01:19:44 < antto> wut about ze f*cking winter?
2021-01-02T01:19:48 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-01-02T01:21:03 < Laurenceb> keeek the comments
2021-01-02T01:21:07 < Laurenceb> >Her politics suck by my god yeah
2021-01-02T01:24:17 < Laurenceb> >brexit rule 34
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2021-01-02T01:30:48 < Steffanx> kakium69:  o/
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2021-01-02T01:31:18 < kakium69> thank you for attention
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2021-01-02T01:48:06 < zyp> Thorn, now I'm approaching something tidy here: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qeoK6 https://paste.jvnv.net/view/xTlL7
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2021-01-02T01:51:52 < zyp> async.h contains async<T> which is a generic awaitable coroutine. it's fully independent from other objects; will run when awaited and pass control back to its awaiter once done
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2021-01-02T01:53:20 < zyp> scheduler.h contains the scheduler, the base class schedulable, and three objects deriving from schedulable; yield, future and task
2021-01-02T01:54:47 < zyp> the point of the schedulable base class is to be a linked list node for the scheduler, so all the derived objects can be put into the queue
2021-01-02T01:55:00 < Thorn> so basically when coroutines are nested you're essentially creating a linked list of suspended handles  through the parent field?
2021-01-02T01:55:17 < zyp> correct
2021-01-02T01:55:43 < Thorn> what happens when a nested coroutine returns?
2021-01-02T01:56:11 < Thorn> I guess it's in struct final_awaiter
2021-01-02T01:56:13 < zyp> final_suspend() returns the parent
2021-01-02T01:56:30 < Thorn> yeah I see it
2021-01-02T01:56:32 < Thorn> clever
2021-01-02T01:57:24 < Thorn> now I understand why they included all these methods
2021-01-02T01:57:33 < zyp> the thing now is that async<T> are middle nodes in the list or tree of coroutines
2021-01-02T01:58:19 < zyp> it can't be the root anymore, the root is not awaited but scheduled
2021-01-02T01:59:20 < zyp> that's where the task object comes in, task is not awaitable, but schedulable
2021-01-02T02:01:01 < zyp> and it doesn't really make sense for async<T> to be a leaf node either, since that effectively is a coroutine that never awaits
2021-01-02T02:02:20 < zyp> in other words, the root is a schedulable awaiter (task), and the leaves are schedulable awaitables (future, yield, etc…, probably some sort of queues)
2021-01-02T02:03:01 < zyp> and in between you can chain as many awaitable awaiters (async) as you need
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2021-01-02T02:06:52 < zyp> scheduler can be swapped out (e.g. for a multithreading aware one, or something using a priority queue, or whatever), possibly requiring changes in the awaitables that ties into it, but the async calls in between don't care about that
2021-01-02T02:12:57 < zyp> could even mix multiple kinds in one app; I guess for some uses it could actually be useful to run a coroutine directly in an ISR, so there could be a scheduler for that too
2021-01-02T02:13:47 < Thorn> this needs to be combined with events that aren't being awaited, such as periodic timer events
2021-01-02T02:14:11 < Thorn> so the scheduler should be able to run normal functions
2021-01-02T02:14:42 < Thorn> or in any case not just coroutines that need to be resumed
2021-01-02T02:16:03 < zyp> I could do that by just generalizing schedulable to be able to call arbitrary functions rather than only handle.resume() :)
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2021-01-02T02:16:27 < zyp> but you might as well just wrap your normal function in a task
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2021-01-02T02:18:53 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.msg2156013#msg2156013
2021-01-02T02:20:09 < zyp> Thorn, e.g. like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Zayov
2021-01-02T02:23:34 < zyp> you could also have a bunch of kinds of timer awaitables all at the same time, so you could have some stuff waiting on a systick derived timer, while other stuff are waiting on a rtc derived timer
2021-01-02T02:24:18 < zyp> giving a ton more flexibility than having the scheduler itself integrating a timer
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2021-01-02T03:02:18 < antto> can't get the midi bitrate with this 96MHz clock..
2021-01-02T03:10:24 < zyp> 31250 baud? that's 96M/3072
2021-01-02T03:11:25 < zyp> or 96M/192 if you need it oversampled 16x
2021-01-02T03:13:15 < zyp> 31250 * 16 is 0.5 MHz, so every integer MHz clock or integer and a half can be divided into a perfect 16x oversampled midi clock
2021-01-02T03:17:40 < antto> muh fancy function sez otherwise
2021-01-02T03:17:53 < antto> i changed the core clock to 32MHz and then it's perfect
2021-01-02T03:17:57 < zyp> then it's broken.
2021-01-02T03:18:27 < zyp> oh, is your baudrate divisor only 10bit?
2021-01-02T03:18:28 < antto> inposhiburu
2021-01-02T03:19:22 < antto> Fbaud = Fref/16 * (1 - BAUD/65536)
2021-01-02T03:19:39 < antto> BAUD = 65536 - ((1048576 * Fbaud) / Fref)
2021-01-02T03:20:05 < antto> Fref is the core clock (was 96MHz)
2021-01-02T03:20:21 < zyp> what chip was this again?
2021-01-02T03:20:35 < antto> same54
2021-01-02T03:20:46 < zyp> wtf is that math?
2021-01-02T03:21:24 < antto> one of 3 possible baudrate generator mathz
2021-01-02T03:37:50 < zyp> looking at table 33-2 in the datasheet now, it makes no fucking sense
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2021-01-02T03:45:59 < antto> why?
2021-01-02T03:46:21 < antto> it is wot it is
2021-01-02T03:46:37 < zyp> but how the fuck
2021-01-02T03:47:16 < zyp> I suspected an error in the datasheet at first, but I see the library code to calculate baud is using the same math
2021-01-02T03:47:56 < antto> why would there be an error in the datasheet?
2021-01-02T03:49:21 < zyp> because BAUD = 65536 * (1 - 16 * fBAUD / fref) looks absolutely insane and I don't get how they've designed the baudrate generator to end up with something like that
2021-01-02T03:49:42 < zyp> do you wanna know how the equivalent formula looks for stm32?
2021-01-02T03:49:55 < zyp> BRR = fref / fBAUD
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2021-01-02T03:51:02 < antto> uhm, this baud generator is for the whole sercom
2021-01-02T03:51:16 < antto> so it has to work for usart, i2c, spi
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2021-01-02T03:52:54 < antto> also, the stm32 "usart" is a joke vs the atmel one
2021-01-02T03:53:01 < antto> it cuts corners here and there
2021-01-02T03:53:38 < antto> but no idea if that could explain the simplicity of its formula
2021-01-02T03:55:00 < zyp> dude, a baudrate generator is just a clock divider
2021-01-02T03:55:41 < antto> iirc the one on atmega was simple like the above ^
2021-01-02T03:55:46 < antto> i'm not 100%
2021-01-02T03:56:02 < antto> but in xmega it became fancier "fractional baud generator"
2021-01-02T03:56:13 < zyp> clock dividers are simple; for every n pulses of input clock, generate one output clock
2021-01-02T03:56:28 < zyp> yeah, the stm32 one is also fractional
2021-01-02T03:57:38 < zyp> thing is, it does four bits of fractional, and the uart wants 16x oversampling
2021-01-02T03:58:19 < zyp> so the formula is something like BRR = fref / 16 / fBAUD * 16
2021-01-02T03:58:27 < zyp> and the two 16s cancel out
2021-01-02T03:59:22 < antto> xmega: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/5cdf8e25/
2021-01-02T04:00:50 < zyp> yeah, that looks sane
2021-01-02T04:01:14 < zyp> I don't get what bscale is, but sure
2021-01-02T04:01:44 < antto> but that thing is only USART .. it does have "spi master mode" but there's an SPI periph that does sh*t properly and works differently
2021-01-02T04:01:54 < antto> bscale is -7 to +7
2021-01-02T04:01:58 < zyp> ah, just a trick to keep it from integer overflowing?
2021-01-02T04:02:32 < zyp> it's not like SPI needs any more fancy baudrate generation than uarts :p
2021-01-02T04:02:43 < antto> and "c" there is either 16 or 8 depending on whether you use the "clock*2" option which allows double speed at less oversampling
2021-01-02T04:02:45 < zyp> SPI generally doesn't need oversampling either
2021-01-02T04:03:16 < zyp> yeah, stm32 has that too
2021-01-02T04:04:12 < zyp> not sure you actually get double speed even if you decrease oversampling since it has a fractional generator anyway
2021-01-02T04:04:56 < antto> i mean, on this particular xmega at $job, i run it at 16MHz, and i need a fast usart
2021-01-02T04:05:03 < antto> the fastest i can go is 1MHz
2021-01-02T04:05:16 < antto> but if i use the clock*2 i could go 2MHz
2021-01-02T04:05:20 < antto> or something like that
2021-01-02T04:17:46 < zyp> actually, looking at the datasheet again, the fractional formulas makes perfect sense, they are of the same pattern, it's just the arithmetic ones that are insane
2021-01-02T04:20:03 < zyp> if you set S=16, BAUD=192 and FP=0 you get 96000000 / (16 * (192 + 0 / 8)) = 31250
2021-01-02T04:22:39 < zyp> 02:11:25 < zyp> or 96M/192 if you need it oversampled 16x
2021-01-02T04:27:21 < antto> well, if i understood correctly, i need to use the arithmetic ones
2021-01-02T04:27:38 < antto> i have async UARTs with internal clock
2021-01-02T04:28:35 < zyp> no, you can and probably should use the fractional one
2021-01-02T04:28:36 < antto> one for midi which is 31250, another one for debug transmit which can be any rate but i need a fast-ish one to spew out a lot of crap
2021-01-02T04:32:54 < antto> hm, maybe i can indeed select 16x oversampling with the fractional formula
2021-01-02T04:33:29 < antto> i'm 99% sure this datasheet wasn't so confusing before microsh*t stylized it
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2021-01-02T04:34:45 < antto> i'll look into that, but for now i still got the problem with the whole thing running slower
2021-01-02T04:34:50 < antto> grr
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2021-01-02T04:39:16 < fenugrec> is there some stm32 pin-compatible browser / list ? wondering if there's anything drop-in for a 32F042 in lqfp32
2021-01-02T04:39:23 < fenugrec> with > 32k ROM
2021-01-02T04:44:49 < zyp> haven't you heard? there's full compatibility! https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NZfiV.png
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2021-01-02T04:44:59 < zyp> (except pins 19-49)
2021-01-02T04:46:21 < fenugrec> ahahah hmmm
2021-01-02T04:47:49 < fenugrec> but they're Almost compatible !
2021-01-02T04:48:09 < zyp> on the other hand, nowadays you can even get the same chip in the same package just with two different pinouts/bondings
2021-01-02T04:48:12 < fenugrec> they were so close to nailing it. Had to add those vss
2021-01-02T04:49:29 < fenugrec> wonder if that pinchange was a big deal and discussed intensely, or it just "happened"
2021-01-02T04:49:34 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Fpyrk.png
2021-01-02T04:50:07 < fenugrec> cool - but that's the opposite of what I want to do P )
2021-01-02T04:50:27 < zyp> :)
2021-01-02T04:51:10 < fenugrec> yea, just enabled something extra in a canopen stack I'm trying, and it blew up to 31.4k
2021-01-02T04:51:36 < zyp> ah, there's two qfp32 pinouts as well
2021-01-02T04:51:37 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PN6rJ.png
2021-01-02T04:51:39 < zyp> any of these fit?
2021-01-02T04:52:05 < zyp> no can though
2021-01-02T04:52:40 < fenugrec> thanks for pulling those up - no fit, they're ROT1 encoded
2021-01-02T04:53:14 < zyp> hmm, I think you're gonna have a problem finding can-capable parts in qfp32 at all
2021-01-02T04:53:26 < zyp> apart from the f042, I mean
2021-01-02T04:53:31 < fenugrec> I thought I saw an F4 part, lemme see again
2021-01-02T04:54:02 < fenugrec> f042 pinout: https://ibb.co/3Y4VcrN
2021-01-02T04:54:25 < Steffanx> Trying that canopen stack by this dutch company fenugrec ? What was it again?
2021-01-02T04:55:01 < fenugrec> Steffanx, nah I gave up on Lely which you're thinking of, it looked super heavy
2021-01-02T04:55:40 < Steffanx> Ah 
2021-01-02T04:55:55 < zyp> fenugrec, g431kb is close enough you might be able to bodge it
2021-01-02T04:56:05 < fenugrec> 32F303K8 . CAN lqfp32, pin looks similar
2021-01-02T04:56:58 < zyp> the one I mentioned moved vdda and added vssa, but has other power pins in the same spots
2021-01-02T04:57:09 < fenugrec> zyp " No results found for: stm32g431 "
2021-01-02T04:57:30 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32g431kb.pdf
2021-01-02T04:57:40 < fenugrec> ahhaah. So, ST's search is basically useless
2021-01-02T04:57:45 < fenugrec> how do they do this
2021-01-02T04:58:22 < zyp> idk, I always google a family and follow the links from there
2021-01-02T04:59:04 < Steffanx> Probably not even close to the price of the f042..
2021-01-02T04:59:05 < fenugrec> g431 : huh they put some supply pins on 14,15 which were PB0,1... think I'm using those
2021-01-02T05:02:02 < fenugrec> whoa ST prices are jacked up, but if they're relatively comparable, F303 pricing is 2x F042, and G431 is about 1.75x
2021-01-02T05:02:54 < Steffanx> There was some update from some swisser about that.
2021-01-02T05:03:09 < Steffanx> But I dont think that was posted in here
2021-01-02T05:05:06 < zyp> started dicking around with sphinx for creating documentation for laks, but it's 4am and I should probably go to bed :p
2021-01-02T05:05:17 < fenugrec> inflated prices and no stock. Glad I'm not ordering these days
2021-01-02T05:05:34 < fenugrec> sphinx ? doxy replacement ?
2021-01-02T05:06:58 < zyp> not really a replacement, it's still using doxygen to extract stuff from C/C++ files
2021-01-02T05:07:18 < zyp> but I haven't gotten that far yet
2021-01-02T05:07:34 < fenugrec> ugh python
2021-01-02T05:07:37 < zyp> all the stuff on readthedocs is generated with sphinx
2021-01-02T05:07:55 < antto> oh f*ck, my usart actually runs on the proper baudrate o_O
2021-01-02T05:08:03 < Steffanx> When I googled that it seemed it can also be:
2021-01-02T05:08:05 < Steffanx> Doxygen+Sphinx+Breathe+Exhale
2021-01-02T05:08:13 < zyp> Steffanx, yes
2021-01-02T05:08:15 < Steffanx> Whatever the last 2 may be
2021-01-02T05:09:03 < zyp> breathe is the module that consumes doxygen xml and feeds it into sphinx
2021-01-02T05:09:49 < zyp> and exhale apparently automates some stuff related to making use of that data
2021-01-02T05:11:16 < zyp> apparently sphinx can also be used just to build normal documentation without api extraction
2021-01-02T05:11:21 < zyp> which is good
2021-01-02T05:13:38 < zyp> I don't wanna clutter up the source files with a ton of documentation comments, so I want most of the documentation to actually live under docs/, not inside the source
2021-01-02T05:14:07 < zyp> so it can pull the actual APIs from the source, and then all about how to use them goes in docs/
2021-01-02T05:14:54 < zyp> I figure writing up how all the async bits fits together is a good exercise for trying out sphinx :)
2021-01-02T05:16:13 < zyp> but now it's time for sleep :p
2021-01-02T05:17:13 < antto> hm, while coding and testing, do you -O2 and -g?
2021-01-02T05:17:14 < Steffanx> Lol gn then
2021-01-02T05:17:41 < zyp> antto, I do, yes
2021-01-02T05:17:48 < fenugrec> antto, I like -Os -g. single-stepping can be confusing because of -O
2021-01-02T05:18:01 < antto> so basically "Release" build with -g?
2021-01-02T05:18:09 < zyp> -Os vs -O2 shouldn't make a big difference on single stepping
2021-01-02T05:18:21 < fenugrec> true, I meant vs -O0
2021-01-02T05:18:29 < zyp> -Os is just -O2 without size-increasing optimizations
2021-01-02T05:18:43 < zyp> you might want to use -Og to improve single stepping sanity
2021-01-02T05:18:47 < fenugrec> and -O>1 can uncover some bugs and weirdness that you might have missed at O0
2021-01-02T05:19:51 < zyp> I generally write code that's expecting to get inlined and folded, so -O0 is not very pleasant :)
2021-01-02T05:20:21 < fenugrec> good tip re -Og
2021-01-02T05:20:26 < zyp> -O2 disassembly tends to be easier to read than -O0 disassembly simply because there's less boilerplate to get lost in
2021-01-02T05:21:26 < zyp> -Og is specifically for debugging, should be a reasonable level of optimization just without reordering instructions to interleave lines
2021-01-02T05:21:46 < aandrew> yeah I tend to use -Os or -Og depending on if I need to debug
2021-01-02T05:21:48 < antto> well, bluh
2021-01-02T05:22:26 < antto> i thought maybe lack of optimizations could be f*cking up with the delay functions.. but that wouldn't be happening intermittently anyway
2021-01-02T05:23:56 < antto> i need a faster way to reset the chip
2021-01-02T05:27:47 < fenugrec> antto, faster than resetting from your debugger ?
2021-01-02T05:27:57 < antto> how?
2021-01-02T05:29:08 < fenugrec> I mean, how fast do you need this to be... 
2021-01-02T05:30:17 < antto> faster than reflashing
2021-01-02T05:31:07 < fenugrec> reset should be at most 1 click in your debugger ? or "monitor reset" if in gdb I guess
2021-01-02T05:32:11 < antto> i basically press Continue in the IDE
2021-01-02T05:32:36 < antto> there's also a terminal separately that runs openocd, but i can't type anything in it
2021-01-02T05:33:44 < fenugrec> ... Continue != reset
2021-01-02T05:33:51 < fenugrec> surely your ide has Restart
2021-01-02T05:34:42 < fenugrec> just opened C::B, wtf no restart ? but what does Stop do
2021-01-02T05:34:55 < fenugrec> (stop + start)
2021-01-02T05:35:13 < fenugrec> else "Send user command to debugger", 'monitor reset halt'
2021-01-02T05:35:52 < antto> well, midi is wurking otherwise https://i.imgur.com/FQHGCZ9.png
2021-01-02T05:36:24 < antto> 0x90 smells familiar, should be the note-on shizzle
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2021-01-02T05:38:48 < antto> okay, while i'm attached, if i pause, i can write commands down there
2021-01-02T05:38:55 < antto> "monitor reset" seems to wurk
2021-01-02T05:39:08 < Steffanx> That font needs subpixels
2021-01-02T05:39:10 < fenugrec> yes that is normal gdb behavior. can't interact if running
2021-01-02T05:39:40 < fenugrec> is Steffanx awake 24/7 ?
2021-01-02T05:40:02 < Steffanx> Lol no
2021-01-02T05:40:14 < Steffanx> I just wake up late 
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2021-01-02T05:40:30 < Steffanx> I sleep 8 hours/day
2021-01-02T05:40:50 < fenugrec> heh it's late now even in UTC-5
2021-01-02T05:41:18 < Steffanx> Its early in the morning 
2021-01-02T05:41:29 < Steffanx> Only 4.41 AM
2021-01-02T05:41:43 < antto> he sleeps between the IRC messages
2021-01-02T05:41:48 < fenugrec> aah perfectly reasonable
2021-01-02T05:41:50 < antto> like a real critical task
2021-01-02T05:42:10 < Steffanx> antto has 5.42 AM i think
2021-01-02T05:42:14 < Steffanx> Even worse 
2021-01-02T05:42:30 < antto> yes. it's almost morning here
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2021-01-02T05:58:28 < Steffanx> Sleep well then antto :P
2021-01-02T06:08:35 < antto> not yet
2021-01-02T06:08:49 < antto> this blink sh*t ain't right
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2021-01-02T06:09:23 < antto> and there's a pile of code to be written (or copy-paste-butchered)
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2021-01-02T06:23:03 < antto> https://www.embedded-computing.com/articles/measuring-code-execution-time-on-arm-cortex-m-mcus
2021-01-02T06:23:19 < antto> this might be useful to have around
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2021-01-02T06:37:22 < aandrew> antto: orbuculum works REALLY well for that
2021-01-02T06:37:36 < aandrew> not all Cortex-Ms have DWT
2021-01-02T06:40:21 < antto> mine mentions it
2021-01-02T07:14:45 < antto> "- Tests: 440094, 441427"
2021-01-02T07:15:10 < antto> that's supposedly two measurements around a delay_ms(1)
2021-01-02T07:17:38 < antto> the first one is right after the atmel_init(), before all of my custom codez, and the second one is after my custom sh*t, before the main loop
2021-01-02T07:30:50 < ColdKeyboard> This might be a dumb question but is there an easy makefile macro that I can use to calculate RAM/FLASH usage in percentage?
2021-01-02T07:31:28 < ColdKeyboard> Like at the end of compile I would get size but I'm just curious if there is an easy way to add RAM and FLASH size and then calculate percentage used? :)
2021-01-02T07:59:48 < antto> sounds like a job for a script or external tool
2021-01-02T08:01:46 < antto> so, if i'm doing calculations right.. 441427/120MHz gives 3.6785ms, which is supposed to be 1ms
2021-01-02T08:04:00 < GenTooMan> so where do you get 441427 from?
2021-01-02T08:08:04 < antto> and to estimate the actual frequency off of that, it should be 120MHz/3.6785
2021-01-02T08:08:10 < antto> which gives like 32MHz
2021-01-02T08:08:17 < antto> 33 even
2021-01-02T08:08:21 < antto> GenTooMan, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2e85dc9b/
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2021-01-02T08:38:54 < antto> there it is
2021-01-02T08:39:07 < antto> added -Og, recompiled.. "- Tests: 120103, 120869"
2021-01-02T08:39:19 < antto> blinks "normally" now
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2021-01-02T08:40:19 < antto> and yes, calculator says this is slightly over 1ms
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2021-01-02T11:13:30 < ColdKeyboard> Hmm, interesting. I have couple of logger macros like Logger_ERROR and Logger_INFO
2021-01-02T11:14:08 < ColdKeyboard> I can define what is the level and printout works fine but for some reason everything gets compiled instead of being ignored... anyone have a clue where to look for this?
2021-01-02T11:15:04 < ColdKeyboard> Here is the .h file -> https://pastebin.com/6AVnnmZh
2021-01-02T11:20:38 < zyp> maybe build with -save-temps and look at the file after preprocessing?
2021-01-02T11:21:10 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: where are you defining the level?
2021-01-02T11:22:13 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: the ; at end of the no-op defines looks weird
2021-01-02T11:23:59 < ColdKeyboard> I
2021-01-02T11:24:04 < ColdKeyboard> I'll give it a try
2021-01-02T11:24:13 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- It's defined in each individual file that includes the logger
2021-01-02T11:24:20 < ColdKeyboard> That way I can have different levels for different modules
2021-01-02T11:24:22 < jpa-> before the include?
2021-01-02T11:24:27 < ColdKeyboard> Yes
2021-01-02T11:24:55 < ColdKeyboard> It seems that it's working fine, it's just that I've bloated everything into debug... I'll push stuff that I don't need into trace
2021-01-02T11:25:43 < zyp> by each individual file, do you mean only .c or also .h?
2021-01-02T11:25:51 < ColdKeyboard> Just .c
2021-01-02T11:27:04 < jpa-> maybe you've included the logger .h file before from some other header? or is the #define for logger level before *all* includes in the .c file?
2021-01-02T11:27:24 < jpa-> for what it is worth, your .h file works correctly for me
2021-01-02T11:27:54 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/Eq/plain
2021-01-02T11:28:51 < ColdKeyboard> jpa- My bad, it seems to work fine. Downgraded some printouts to trace instead of debug and it works fine
2021-01-02T11:29:00 < ColdKeyboard> Someone mentioned tiny printf library a while ago
2021-01-02T11:29:11 < ColdKeyboard> Was it tinyprintf or something?
2021-01-02T11:37:12 < jpa-> yeah
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2021-01-02T13:41:54 < karlp> qyx: yeah, what zyp said :)
2021-01-02T13:50:09 < Steffanx> Good new year to you too, karlp :)
2021-01-02T14:02:12 < karlp> zyp: #pragma once all the way.  so much nicer to read.
2021-01-02T14:02:55 < zyp> yeah, and so much less thinking about encoding the path in the include guard to avoid collisions
2021-01-02T14:03:13 < zyp> gonna migrate all of laks over to that as I clean it up
2021-01-02T14:03:37 < qyx> so I should better leave zephyr as is and finish some missing parts of my freertos & libopencm3 combo
2021-01-02T14:06:37 < Steffanx> Heh gave up on doing your own board with zephyr?
2021-01-02T14:08:20 < qyx> I was trying to understand things first on a nucleo_f411re, which is supported
2021-01-02T14:09:32 < qyx> I came to a conclusion getting gps time sync and precise accelerometer sampling is not going to be easy
2021-01-02T14:10:27 < qyx> I wanted to try it because it has the semtech lorawan stack, VFS with little fs and some other stuff already integrated
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2021-01-02T14:29:34 < karlp> mawk: just say no to assembly startup. stop that bullshit cargo culting.
2021-01-02T14:33:22 < karlp> Thorn: re simatic running non-premptive, its almost like you really _can_ solve "real time" by just running faster for many common "real time" usecases. :)
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2021-01-02T14:37:41 < karlp> Thorn: does that coro-mc-wwl-code have any rsults? I'm not running it all myself and measuring or digging
2021-01-02T14:38:43 < karlp> oh, read the paper not the github repo which has a shitty readme :)
2021-01-02T14:39:01 < Thorn> karlp they ran it on the very first version of clang that had coroutines, so if you want performance metrics you should measure  yourself on gcc 10.2 lol
2021-01-02T14:40:13 < karlp> zyp guessed right, "Our current workaround was a “two stage” compilation."
2021-01-02T14:41:56 < karlp> mawk: yeah, the 8ch 24MHz cheap fx2 LAs are "everybody should have one of these"
2021-01-02T14:47:47 < jpa-> zyp, karlp, qyx, Steffanx: who of you will be my beta tester for one of these? https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/DEISO-LF.pdf
2021-01-02T14:48:03 < zyp> karlp, so far my impression of that stuff is that it seems they got good results, but all the extra work to avoid the heap dependency might not be worth it
2021-01-02T14:49:13 < zyp> at the moment I think I've got a fairly neat minimal framework in like 200 lines
2021-01-02T14:49:21 < Steffanx> Heh, since you said "real use" i didnt reply jpa-  ;)
2021-01-02T14:49:35 < jpa-> Steffanx: well apparently no one has real use ;)
2021-01-02T14:49:43 < jpa-> so i'm happy with "willing to take a look"
2021-01-02T14:49:54 < zyp> jpa-, saw you asked yesterday and read the pdf
2021-01-02T14:50:47 < zyp> seems neat, but idk what I'd use it for, I do very little analog work and very little of it would benefit from isolated scoping
2021-01-02T14:51:09 < jpa-> i guess it's a bit of a niche product indeed
2021-01-02T14:51:57 < Steffanx> Isnt this more something for BrainDamage or jadew?
2021-01-02T14:52:00 < Steffanx> Maybe emeb?
2021-01-02T14:52:06 < qyx>  jpa-: only one?
2021-01-02T14:53:11 < jpa-> qyx: well, i'd like at least one extra opinion besides my own before going to proto batch 2
2021-01-02T14:54:00 < mawk> Laurenceb france decided to give the two doses of vaccine as instructed by manufacturer
2021-01-02T14:54:09 < mawk> do you want to come live with us?
2021-01-02T14:58:06 < karlp> jpa-: I like the idea of that deiso, but the only scopeI have is basically worse than the AFE chip I'd want to measure isolated, so... not really something I need?
2021-01-02T14:58:30 < karlp> I might have a use for one if I go down this offline power supply tomfoolery, but not sure I can give any real beta test results,
2021-01-02T14:58:39 < karlp> Im not an analog pro of any sort :)
2021-01-02T14:59:00 < karlp> zyp: yah, my skim of the paper was that the work required was indeed pretty heavy for the gains.
2021-01-02T14:59:15 < karlp> and yes, happy new year all :)
2021-01-02T15:00:47 < srk> more like new year all
2021-01-02T15:00:48 < karlp> 300V isolation seems low? weren't you using some of the silabs or ti digital isolators for this?
2021-01-02T15:03:42 < jpa-> i am using, but the creepage distances for >300Vrms get pretty large; i'm trying to improve them for proto round 2, but it's a bit of a compromise
2021-01-02T15:03:56 < karlp> nice datasheet though
2021-01-02T15:04:00 < mawk> how did you compute the ideal phase jpa- 
2021-01-02T15:04:05 < jpa-> as for the beta testing, i'm not looking for a pro, just a typical user who wants to plug one to their scope
2021-01-02T15:04:47 < karlp> what creepage figures are you using?
2021-01-02T15:05:00 < jpa-> mawk: 180 - mod(1.1e-6 * frequency * 360 + 180, 360)
2021-01-02T15:05:19 < karlp> or are you actually doing the catII or cat III isolations voltages required for a 300V working voltage?
2021-01-02T15:05:30 < jpa-> karlp: basic isolation level, IEC61010
2021-01-02T15:05:37 < mawk> I see
2021-01-02T15:06:08 < karlp> ok, so basic, for working voltages of up to 300V RMS, for what installation category? II?
2021-01-02T15:06:16 < karlp> I think you could clarify that in the sheet :)
2021-01-02T15:06:48 < karlp> at leas,t other people normally specify the 1500V/3k/4k, not just the working voltage?
2021-01-02T15:06:53 < jpa-> yeah category II
2021-01-02T15:06:58 < karlp> what did you do to make that CMRR graph?
2021-01-02T15:07:34 < jpa-> but yeah, i should specify the isolation more clearly - just that it'll probably still change
2021-01-02T15:07:35 < karlp> yeah, I thnk "Ioslation voltage" is normally the higher number from catII figures, but youve put the working voltage there then.
2021-01-02T15:07:48 < jpa-> ah yeah
2021-01-02T15:07:59 < karlp> given that the whole point of this is that it's isolated, I think the docs on the isolatoin part need to be pretty clear
2021-01-02T15:08:00 < jpa-> that's true, i should say them both
2021-01-02T15:08:08 < jpa-> the test voltage will be ~4000V
2021-01-02T15:08:31 < karlp> that's 300v working, reinforced category III?
2021-01-02T15:08:49 < jpa-> for the CMRR graph, i have +-10V function generator between output ground and input (with input signal & ground shorted), and measure between output ground and signal
2021-01-02T15:08:56 < karlp> nice work.
2021-01-02T15:09:40 < jpa-> (one problem is that i don't have a high potential tester yet, and they seem pretty expensive, so i'm building one..)
2021-01-02T15:11:04 < karlp> it's a class 1 device too right, requires earth connection, not class 2 double insulated or something right?
2021-01-02T15:11:11 < karlp> I've never read that part much.
2021-01-02T15:11:49 < karlp> yeah, we just let manufacuting doing to the high pot testing required on every party
2021-01-02T15:11:54 < karlp> you're doing manufacturing yourself :)
2021-01-02T15:11:59 < jpa-> i'm not sure if the class 1/2 ratings apply for this (as it has no direct mains connection itself), but because the creepage distances are ~4mm so non-reinforced, it needs a ground
2021-01-02T15:12:00 < karlp> (I presume?)
2021-01-02T15:12:25 < jpa-> yeah, final assembly and testing i'll do myself
2021-01-02T15:12:34 < jpa-> with typical outsourcing for p&p
2021-01-02T15:12:40 < karlp> 61010 stays right, it's 60950 that got replaced with ...638 or something?
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2021-01-02T15:14:39 < jpa-> another rather big limit on the isolation will be what typical scope probes have for their cable insulation
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2021-01-02T15:27:01 < karlp> oh yeah, totally, no need for going over what they're doing :)
2021-01-02T15:27:43 < jpa-> but anyway, throw me your mail address in privmsg and i'll send you one :)
2021-01-02T15:37:25 < mawk> Steffanx: I made Logic 2 crash even faster than you made pulseview crash, so you owe PaulFertser an apology
2021-01-02T15:39:02 < PaulFertser> :D
2021-01-02T15:39:47 < mawk> if I start-it and during the splash screen I alt-tab to another window, it segfaults
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2021-01-02T15:54:41 < Steffanx> But logic it is like alpha i never said logic 2 is better, mawk
2021-01-02T15:57:23 < Steffanx> Logic 2*
2021-01-02T15:59:44 < Steffanx> And doesnt make pulseview less shitty ,)
2021-01-02T16:04:40 < mawk> it's 2.3.16
2021-01-02T16:04:42 < mawk> it's not alpha
2021-01-02T16:10:41 < Steffanx> Not even going to discuss it. Lol
2021-01-02T16:27:22 < Steffanx> Anyway, re the marker. Apparently it does generate a marker when you create it when hovering the signal, but not when you hover the timeline. And i guess it has been that way for a while now.
2021-01-02T16:27:28 < Steffanx> i cant be the first one to notice this..
2021-01-02T16:28:04 < Steffanx> i mean: it always generates the marker, if it gets visible depends on where you clicked.
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2021-01-02T17:11:59 < karlp> huh, so, esp32-c3 is wifi+bt, with rsicv, then they went and announced a -s3, same, btu with tensilica again why?
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2021-01-02T17:33:33 < Laurenceb> bronald blimpf
2021-01-02T17:36:32 < zyp> karlp, oh, nice
2021-01-02T17:37:17 < zyp> I don't have patience for learning how to deal with tensilica, but riscv support is on the roadmap for laks
2021-01-02T17:37:47 < Laurenceb> any aerodynamics gurus here?
2021-01-02T17:37:57  * Laurenceb is confused by Bronald Blimpfs
2021-01-02T17:40:27 < Laurenceb> http://www.bbrclub.org/Barrage%20Balloon%20Structure.jpg
2021-01-02T17:40:28 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-01-02T17:40:49 < Laurenceb> >blimp pressurised by ram air
2021-01-02T17:41:07 < Laurenceb> obviously it worked but it seems perpetual motion tier
2021-01-02T17:42:03 < Laurenceb> Bernoulli equation says it shouldnt be possible?
2021-01-02T17:42:12 < BrainDamage> even a brick can fly if you push it hard enough
2021-01-02T17:42:32 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-02T17:43:14 < BrainDamage> I'd wager the buoyancy was negative, and the lift was entirely through airfoil effect
2021-01-02T17:43:25 < Laurenceb> well the front should cave in and then force the whole thing down or rip it apart according to Bernoulli
2021-01-02T17:43:33 < Laurenceb> obviously that didnt happen
2021-01-02T17:43:52 < Laurenceb> very confusing, that design seems too good to be true
2021-01-02T17:44:41 < BrainDamage> it should cave in only while it's drawing in air
2021-01-02T17:44:50 < Laurenceb> no electronics or blower required at all O_o
2021-01-02T17:45:10 < Laurenceb> well in the middle of the nose, dynamic pressure is 1/2*rho*v^2
2021-01-02T17:45:35 < Laurenceb> so the blower or ram air system has to exceeed that pressure to prevent failure
2021-01-02T17:45:46 < Laurenceb> but Bernoulli says thats impossible ?
2021-01-02T17:46:10 < BrainDamage> the way I see it, it's just an inefficient kite
2021-01-02T17:46:34 < Laurenceb> sure, thats how it flies in wind
2021-01-02T17:46:52 < Laurenceb> but I cant see how the nose doesnt cave in and cause structural failure
2021-01-02T17:47:45 < zyp> are there any common boost lithium charge regs?
2021-01-02T17:47:57 < zyp> let's say I want to charge a single cell from 3.3V
2021-01-02T17:48:22 < zyp> bonus points if it can also provide 3.3V back in the other direction
2021-01-02T17:48:35 < zyp> more bonus points if it can also charge from a secondary 5V input
2021-01-02T17:48:48 < Laurenceb> I've used sepic to power 3.3v off lithium before
2021-01-02T17:48:59 < BrainDamage> I assume they just close the ports once the stucture has sufficient gas trapped
2021-01-02T17:49:03 < BrainDamage> and every time they open them, it loses altitude
2021-01-02T17:50:13 < Laurenceb> everything indicates it was very low maintenance 
2021-01-02T17:54:08 < Laurenceb> https://34ti0x1ar4y91l0khr3w6gsv-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/17182472_web1_Balloons.jpg
2021-01-02T17:54:22 < Laurenceb> I see ram air scoops
2021-01-02T17:57:22 < srk> cute
2021-01-02T17:57:56 < srk> looks like some surrealist painting
2021-01-02T17:58:45 < Laurenceb> they flew tens of thousands of them for years
2021-01-02T18:00:22 < Laurenceb> just need solar cells on the sides
2021-01-02T18:04:25 < karlp> zyp: yeah, -c3 looks appealing for fun :) not sure how software will be for real usage though :)
2021-01-02T18:04:29 < karlp> and still not available
2021-01-02T18:05:10 < karlp> also, unclear if it will really be any different for app devs, having the tetnsilica toolchain "just works" mostly, not sure if riscv will make it better?
2021-01-02T18:05:15 < karlp> certainly cooler though :)
2021-01-02T18:05:34 < karlp> my first riscv board never arrived, second one is in the same missing parcel as my phone, 
2021-01-02T18:05:38 < karlp> riscv was never meant to be :)
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2021-01-02T18:34:25 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.net/pic/https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEquHnSPVgAEaW0Y.jpg
2021-01-02T18:34:44 < qyx> zyp: check otg usb chargers
2021-01-02T18:34:57 < qyx> idk about the 3v3 requirement though
2021-01-02T18:35:08 < qyx> but they are bidirectional
2021-01-02T18:35:40 < qyx> hm, but boost
2021-01-02T18:36:13 < qyx> there was a boost BQ* charger I used once
2021-01-02T18:47:41 < englishman> I use a cheap boost dcdc before the 1s linear charger then put the load on that
2021-01-02T18:47:52 < englishman> to make a diy NVDC setup
2021-01-02T18:48:42 < englishman> there is a good NVDC chip for 2-4s but not much in 1s last I looked
2021-01-02T18:49:02 < englishman> bq25703a
2021-01-02T18:52:35 < qyx> here are many, but not boost
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2021-01-02T19:32:33 < zyp> hmm, the esp32-c3 apparently does CAN
2021-01-02T19:32:53 < zyp> that they somehow don't mention by name and call it TWAI instead
2021-01-02T19:33:03 < zyp> I guess it's something like the TWI/I2C bullshit
2021-01-02T19:54:50 < fenugrec> was it like that other esp32 that mentioned CAN in one datasheet but wasn't actually documented anywhere else
2021-01-02T20:22:12 < Steffanx> no TWAI is REAL.
2021-01-02T20:25:50 < fenugrec> I'll think TWAIce before I use it
2021-01-02T20:37:15 < Steffanx> i wonder if it makes it legal though... and really avoid the license fees (which is probably what they try to do)
2021-01-02T20:38:01 < Steffanx> its still CAN compatible although they dont mention CAN.
2021-01-02T20:38:05 < Steffanx> but they do mention some ISO standard
2021-01-02T20:58:59 < machinehum> The opencores forum is next level retarded
2021-01-02T20:59:19 < machinehum> https://opencores.org/forum/USB/0/5906
2021-01-02T20:59:23 < machinehum> I WANT TO LEARN USB 3.0 IMPLEMENTATION CAN ANYONE HELP ME?
2021-01-02T21:08:44 < mawk> no
2021-01-02T21:09:30 < mawk> what's a cheap i2c adapter for pc?
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2021-01-02T21:09:37 < mawk> there's the ftdi cable but it's 40€
2021-01-02T21:09:42 < mawk> mpsse whatever cable
2021-01-02T21:11:04 < jpa-> https://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/products/communication-adapters/interface-modules/usb-to-i2c-interface-module.html   there are some cheaper ftdi-based boards like this
2021-01-02T21:11:32 < mawk> hmm
2021-01-02T21:11:44 < mawk> for that price I might as well take the full cable that can do more than i2c
2021-01-02T21:11:50 < mawk> thanks
2021-01-02T21:13:14 < PaulFertser> mawk: your fx2lp LA is an I2C adapter already
2021-01-02T21:13:42 < mawk> it can output?
2021-01-02T21:13:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: https://github.com/karosium/smbusb
2021-01-02T21:13:57 < PaulFertser> mawk: if you open the case and solder two wires, yes.
2021-01-02T21:14:05 < mawk> ah I see
2021-01-02T21:14:14 < mawk> and it will keep functioning as LA I hope
2021-01-02T21:14:18 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-01-02T21:14:28 < mawk> smbus is backwards compatible with i2c?
2021-01-02T21:14:29 < PaulFertser> And you said you had few of them in that box
2021-01-02T21:14:33 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-02T21:14:35 < PaulFertser> smbus is stricter than i2c
2021-01-02T21:15:18 < mawk> smbus is used inside pc, where else?
2021-01-02T21:15:28 < mawk> maybe in industrial stuff
2021-01-02T21:16:17 < PaulFertser> To talk to laptop batteries, not sure if it's really inside or outside :)
2021-01-02T21:16:19 < emeb> Interesting - ported some code from H750 to H730 and had to change from QSPI to OctoSPI port for a PSRAM.  There was an addressing bug in my code that didn't show up on the QSPI version, but locked up the OctoSPI version.
2021-01-02T21:17:46 < mawk> when making x86 kernel I remember a lot of stuff about smbus being brought up
2021-01-02T21:17:57 < mawk> but was too lazy to implement it
2021-01-02T21:18:08 < mawk> I stopped at having to make an acpi interpreter
2021-01-02T21:18:15 < mawk> with their weird script language
2021-01-02T21:18:18 < mawk> AML or whatever
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2021-01-02T21:21:17 < mawk> but I still went quite far with device drivers and so on
2021-01-02T21:21:26 < mawk> all in C++ like a pro
2021-01-02T21:21:55 < mawk> and loadable module support, that can export symbols to be used in other modules
2021-01-02T21:21:56 < Steffanx> The  you wrote holyc++?
2021-01-02T21:22:02 < mawk> lol
2021-01-02T21:22:05 < Steffanx> Then*
2021-01-02T21:22:10 < mawk> g++ -ffreestanding
2021-01-02T21:22:30 < mawk> I had paged memory with mmap and stuff
2021-01-02T21:22:34 < mawk> x86_64 kernel
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2021-01-02T21:53:42 < ColdKeyboard> I haven't looked into this for a while but is it normal/expected for HAL_RCC_OscConfig to take 1300 bytes??
2021-01-02T21:53:56 < ColdKeyboard> nm reports -> 134230572 00001300 T HAL_RCC_OscConfig
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2021-01-02T22:12:31 < fenugrec> ColdKeyboard, yeah I think it does runtime calculations of divisor ratios etc
2021-01-02T22:12:35 < fenugrec> it's unholy
2021-01-02T22:30:53 < dima> mawk: Would this work as an i2c adapter for you? https://github.com/thanks4opensource/buck50
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2021-01-02T23:02:20 < PaulFertser> It looks like https://github.com/thanks4opensource/buck50 readme was written by an aspie.
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2021-01-02T23:03:45 < Laurenceb> sheet muh live catch mousetrap was only 50% successful
2021-01-02T23:05:35 < ColdKeyboard> The catch or the live part? :)
2021-01-02T23:05:37 < Laurenceb> the mouse is caught, but its dead
2021-01-02T23:05:40 < Laurenceb> maybe it got too stressed
2021-01-02T23:07:05 < mawk> it's in hex ColdKeyboard 
2021-01-02T23:07:10 < mawk> so it's 0x1300
2021-01-02T23:07:13 < mawk> no?
2021-01-02T23:07:17 < Laurenceb> I used a can with the lid loaded with a rubber band
2021-01-02T23:07:30 < Laurenceb> then a paperclip with bait on to keep it open
2021-01-02T23:07:43 < mawk> looks nice dima 
2021-01-02T23:07:48 < Laurenceb> took about 5 min to make and worked perfectly
2021-01-02T23:07:56 < Laurenceb> apart from the dead mouse part
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2021-01-02T23:08:59 < Laurenceb> M3 bolt hinges then a catch made from some alu sheet to keep the lid closed
2021-01-02T23:09:23 < Steffanx> You know what they say right Laurenceb ?
2021-01-02T23:09:27 < Steffanx> pics or it did not happen
2021-01-02T23:09:29 < Laurenceb> maybe the mouse had a heart attack
2021-01-02T23:10:26 < ColdKeyboard> mawk True, I forgot it's in hex! That makes it even worse :(
2021-01-02T23:10:37 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEjgMq9AdaM
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2021-01-02T23:13:54 < Laurenceb> but I just used the lid and a hinge rather than sliding floppy disc door
2021-01-02T23:21:57 < Steffanx> oh, i remember.. you dont have a proper camera
2021-01-02T23:31:13 < Laurenceb> what the fuck is this
2021-01-02T23:31:15 < Laurenceb> https://metalwebnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/how-to-build-a-can-mouse-trap.jpg
2021-01-02T23:31:18 < Laurenceb> autism
2021-01-02T23:33:29 < Laurenceb> >just add more random bars
2021-01-02T23:39:57 < Laurenceb> kekkkkkkkkkkkkkk
2021-01-02T23:39:59 < Laurenceb> https://hackaday.com/2015/08/31/building-a-better-mousetrap-with-the-raspberry-pi/
2021-01-02T23:40:34 < Laurenceb> >mousetrap runs lunix
2021-01-02T23:41:22 < mawk> lol
2021-01-02T23:45:17 < Laurenceb> looks like just that floppy disc design without the floppy disc - using just the original lid works fine
2021-01-02T23:45:23 < Laurenceb> although the mouse died lol
2021-01-02T23:45:43 < Laurenceb> no need for a million random metal bars autism
2021-01-02T23:47:22 < Steffanx> imagine using something like https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/171488/files/80558711/900x900x2/luchs-houten-muizenklem.jpg
--- Day changed Sun Jan 03 2021
2021-01-03T00:13:32 < Laurenceb> maybe the rpi could play mouse video games to keep the mouse entertained so it didnt die
2021-01-03T00:21:57 < englishman> Laurenceb: I have a humane trap for squirrels (that I subsequently kill) but they get caught under the pressure plate and die.
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2021-01-03T00:22:32 < Laurenceb> >that I subsequently kill
2021-01-03T00:22:37 < Laurenceb> serial killer spotted
2021-01-03T00:22:44 < englishman> yes
2021-01-03T00:22:49 < englishman> squirrel genocide here
2021-01-03T00:22:57 < Laurenceb> but yeah I think wild animals dont like getting caught
2021-01-03T00:23:01 < Laurenceb> they just stress out
2021-01-03T00:23:03 < englishman> no shit
2021-01-03T00:23:11 < englishman> you would too
2021-01-03T00:23:13 < Laurenceb> no sign of injuries to the mouse
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2021-01-03T00:32:42 < catphish> i feed my squirrels, love them!
2021-01-03T00:33:24 < Steffanx> They love you too
2021-01-03T00:38:51 < Laurenceb> raep
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2021-01-03T01:18:06 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-03T01:19:23 < zyp> http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/async.html <- I started typing up some shit with sphinx
2021-01-03T01:19:50 < zyp> I haven't configured it to pull api docs from the source yet, so this is all just hand typed .rst
2021-01-03T01:21:37 < zyp> task/yield/future are stuff that I figure is useful to pull from the source
2021-01-03T01:37:22 < qyx> looks good
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2021-01-03T01:49:24 < BrainDamage> fuck u.fl and fuck my shaky hands
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2021-01-03T02:02:49 < mawk> lol
2021-01-03T02:05:20 < Steffanx> Thats not funny mawk 😅
2021-01-03T02:05:31 < mawk> yes
2021-01-03T02:06:37 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0jNQyNGm4g musics NL
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2021-01-03T02:07:15 < Steffanx> Yay kakium69  \o/
2021-01-03T02:07:29 < kakium69> NL 12points
2021-01-03T02:09:31 < kakium69> tommorow cam head assembly
2021-01-03T02:09:38 < kakium69> I just rubbed them parts clean
2021-01-03T02:12:11 < emeb> lol - ordered some of those cheap xiaomi BTLE temp/humidity sensors. The came from kazakhstan.
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2021-01-03T02:16:15 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-01-03T02:22:11 < Steffanx> Whats some finnish 90s music kakium69 ?
2021-01-03T02:22:22 < kakium69> just a sec
2021-01-03T02:29:29 < kakium69> ofc freestyler etc. but
2021-01-03T02:30:44 < Steffanx> Oh yeah. Perfect 😛
2021-01-03T02:31:24 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC5X60Ujoyg some song in finnish from 1999
2021-01-03T02:31:43 < Steffanx> Is 2000s but ok
2021-01-03T02:33:20 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOBZ6zzLd0 genuine 1995
2021-01-03T02:33:24 < Steffanx> Apparently it was a bigger hit outside finland
2021-01-03T02:35:23 < Steffanx> Heh. Lol that song was probably finland only
2021-01-03T02:37:04 < kakium69> ofc there was a small international hit "sandstorm"
2021-01-03T02:37:57 < kakium69> 1999
2021-01-03T02:39:07 < emeb_mac> appropriate finnish musics -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsyxXNBf7vQ
2021-01-03T02:39:13 < emeb_mac> 1995
2021-01-03T02:42:04 < kakium69> :O
2021-01-03T02:47:01 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjw2DZbIWWk genuine 90s eurodance with amiga rendered CGI
2021-01-03T02:48:39 < kakium69> in early 90's there was a lot of finndance but not that much of eurodance
2021-01-03T02:49:47 < emeb_mac> those were the days.
2021-01-03T02:53:49 < kakium69> I feel nostalgic about being nostalgic when I were activelly listening to eurodance and finndance 10-15years after releases in late 2000s
2021-01-03T02:57:05 < kakium69> basically it was when I found 90s dance music
2021-01-03T02:57:50 < Steffanx> Hah
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2021-01-03T04:29:35 < fenugrec> how did ST come up with "HAL_CAN_ActivateNotification" as a name instead of "Enable interrupts"
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2021-01-03T05:01:27 < karlp> man, buttcoin has sure as shit not gone away...
2021-01-03T05:01:42 < karlp> I thought the whole 8k/2k/4k/8k was crazy.
2021-01-03T05:01:53 < karlp> it's 32k now. in a year....
2021-01-03T05:02:50 < Steffanx> How many buttcoins did you mine karlp?
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2021-01-03T05:12:58 < karlp> zero. still kept on the, "nah, fucking wild bullshit"
2021-01-03T05:13:09 < karlp> keeps just being ganbusters though
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2021-01-03T05:24:11 < dongs> lol buttcoin fucking useless
2021-01-03T05:30:51 < karlp> well, I could hav ebought at the top of last year at 8k, and got got lik e400% for christmas
2021-01-03T05:31:15 < karlp> it still sounds absurd to say, "its getting silly" when its obviously been silly for years
2021-01-03T05:31:22 < karlp> anyway. bed thyme...
2021-01-03T05:31:42 < englishman> i bought a stock to try out these new free brokerages
2021-01-03T05:31:49 < englishman> it went up 400% in a month
2021-01-03T05:31:56 < englishman> volatility is not exclusive to buttcoin
2021-01-03T05:33:32 < karlp> no, but like, look at the one year buttcoin
2021-01-03T05:33:40 < karlp> and 400% on tiny stocks is nothing
2021-01-03T05:33:52 < karlp> it's almost noise
2021-01-03T05:34:02 < karlp> but it's big numbers on buttcouns
2021-01-03T05:34:26 < karlp> and, thakfully, all the "we'll transform yourbusiness with buttcoin ledger tech..." is gone
2021-01-03T05:34:35 < karlp> so, what's pumping it up again?
2021-01-03T05:35:21 < englishman> crime, and JP Morgan
2021-01-03T05:36:58 < englishman> tesla is up 743% in a year
2021-01-03T05:58:00 < ds2> is there anyone besides Cypress that has a microcontroller and one or more transimpedence amps in the same package?
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2021-01-03T06:11:19 < englishman> sounds rather specific
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2021-01-03T06:12:37 < englishman> that actually sounds like a super useless feature that you'd expect of psoc
2021-01-03T06:12:40 < machinehum> karlp: Mushroom stocks duh
2021-01-03T06:13:02 < emeb_mac> lol englishman dis'n the psoc
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2021-01-03T06:14:32 < englishman> oh neat you actually get the choice of 3 caps and 8 resistors
2021-01-03T06:14:47 < englishman> so maybe in some very specific cases it could be useful
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2021-01-03T07:04:27 < antto> DMA block, beat, burst, wtf is this i don't even
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2021-01-03T08:57:56 < emeb_mac> sounds like some kinda funky PC-grade scatter/gather crap.
2021-01-03T09:00:09 < jpa-> DMA block => number of items to transfer before DMA interrupt gets triggered; DMA burst => number of items transferred per DMA trigger from peripheral; DMA beat => number of items transferred per bus access without letting other access in between
2021-01-03T09:01:57 < dongs> huh so... default STM gpio is input,floating right
2021-01-03T09:02:02 < dongs> so technically I don't "need" to init it
2021-01-03T09:02:06 < dongs> and I can just read IDR?
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2021-01-03T09:19:31 < jpa-> dongs: yeah, though RCC clock you must enable
2021-01-03T09:28:52 < antto> hm
2021-01-03T09:31:50 < antto> jpa-, so those setting would depend on how the peripheral works?
2021-01-03T09:32:09 < jpa-> antto: more on what you want to do
2021-01-03T09:32:21 < jpa-> but for the simplest cases, you would have beat and burst set to 1
2021-01-03T09:32:35 < jpa-> and block size to the size of the memory buffer
2021-01-03T09:32:44 < antto> on trigger, i can select between block, burst, and transaction
2021-01-03T09:33:41 < antto> the peripheral is I2S, so afaiu, it needs to be fed one sample at a time, pretty quickly before it's too late
2021-01-03T09:34:30 < antto> yet i wanna get double buffering for like 16 or so samples to get an interrupt every time the two buffers switch
2021-01-03T09:34:42 < antto> so.. a burst mode of 1?
2021-01-03T09:35:10 < jpa-> yes
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2021-01-03T09:35:32 < antto> okay
2021-01-03T09:36:40 < antto> muh cat is throwing a burst of requests here >:/
2021-01-03T09:37:10 < antto> violent vocalized yawns
2021-01-03T09:38:13 < jpa-> some peripherals keep triggering the DMA request until you serve them
2021-01-03T10:02:25 < antto> there are also these descriptors, i thought i understand sorta, they can be linked
2021-01-03T10:03:16 < antto> the DMA here has 32 channels, afaict it wants to know the base address of an array of 32 descriptors
2021-01-03T10:03:34 < antto> those are just structs with slightly special attributes
2021-01-03T10:04:12 < antto> but then there's also another set of these called "write back"
2021-01-03T10:05:01 < jpa-> doesn't sound like how STM32 DMA works
2021-01-03T10:05:56 < jpa-> MDMA has something similar, but it has pointers for each channel separately and you can also configure it directly without descriptors - and MDMA would be overkill for what you are doing anyway
2021-01-03T10:06:37 < antto> hm?! why?
2021-01-03T10:07:40 < antto> these descriptors are reallly a structure containing minimum instructions about the data and pointers to the source/dest data, and pointer to the next descriptor
2021-01-03T10:07:50 < jpa-> what device are you talking about anyway?
2021-01-03T10:08:18 < antto> device?
2021-01-03T10:08:20 < jpa-> which stm32
2021-01-03T10:08:39 < antto> it's not, it's just a cortex m4f
2021-01-03T10:08:50 < jpa-> DMA controllers are vendor-specific
2021-01-03T10:09:16 < antto> i know, i hoped the terminology between them is similar tho
2021-01-03T10:09:41 < jpa-> well, you can hope all you want, but everyones life would be easier if you would just be specific
2021-01-03T10:11:02 < antto> well, i'm trying to get I2S working with an audio codec, stereo, in/out, at 96kHz
2021-01-03T10:11:27 < antto> the I2S can be used via polling (it's gonna suck), via interrupts, and via DMA
2021-01-03T10:11:46 < antto> the datasheet specifically says that for best performance you should use the DMA scheme
2021-01-03T10:12:25 < jpa-> that much is obvious, but if you want to ask about details of a particular DMA controller, you have to tell us what embarrassing chip choice you've made
2021-01-03T10:12:56 < antto> atsame54n20a
2021-01-03T10:13:10 < jpa-> ok, i have no experience with that
2021-01-03T10:13:28 < antto> of course, no one has
2021-01-03T10:13:46 < antto> thing is, i haven't dealt with DMA at all
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2021-01-03T10:32:48 < ds2> a fully uncommited op-amp would also suffice
2021-01-03T10:52:29 < ds2> hmmm msp430
2021-01-03T10:52:56 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-01-03T11:25:44 < ds2> blah 10bit ADC... at least that can be worked around in SW
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2021-01-03T11:42:22 < Sadale> I've got a question about PCB design. For the capacitor of linear voltage regulator, does the filtering capacitors have to be placed close to the voltage regulator chip?
2021-01-03T11:42:44 < Sadale> And would it be a good idea to place the cap close to the regulator? If so, why?
2021-01-03T11:44:06 < zyp> the closer a capacitor is placed to something, the faster it will be able to respond
2021-01-03T11:44:32 < zyp> what is considered close depends on how fast the capacitor itself is
2021-01-03T11:45:47 < zyp> bulk capacitance is generally slow and can be placed pretty much anywhere on the board without much difference, decoupling caps are fast and should be placed close to whatever they are decoupling
2021-01-03T11:46:15 < Sadale> I see. So the higher the capacitance, the slower the cap is.
2021-01-03T11:46:31 < Sadale> Thanks!
2021-01-03T11:46:32 < zyp> indirectly
2021-01-03T11:46:42 < zyp> the lower the ESR is, the faster the cap is
2021-01-03T11:47:19 < zyp> e.g. ceramic caps have lower ESRs than electrolytics, and electrolytics are generally larger than ceramic caps
2021-01-03T11:48:28 < zyp> to put it another way, it's hard to get large fast caps, but you can't expect any small cap to be fast just because it's small
2021-01-03T11:48:28 < Sadale> oh. Didn't know about that. Cool!
2021-01-03T11:51:03 < BrainDamage> there's an even worse effect, when you add ESL aka inductance, there's a point where the capacitor stops acting as a cap, at the resonance frequency, from there upwards instead it acts like an inductor
2021-01-03T11:51:53 < BrainDamage> inductance is generally a consequence of package and pcb layout
2021-01-03T11:55:42 < antto> okay, after a ton of butchering code, i think i can flash it :/
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2021-01-03T13:32:29 < antto> nuffin
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2021-01-03T16:08:48 < mawk> « A pulse can be generated between continuous communications if NSS pulse mode is activated (NSSP=1). »
2021-01-03T16:08:53 < mawk> when would I want that? for spi
2021-01-03T16:15:27 < jpa-> some spi-like devices work like that, but it is pretty rare
2021-01-03T17:11:40 < mawk> I see
2021-01-03T17:13:29 < mawk> 09:05 <jpa-> MDMA has something similar, but it has pointers for each channel separately and you can also configure it directly without descriptors - and MDMA would be overkill for what you are doing anyway
2021-01-03T17:13:34 < mawk> I wouldn't say no to some mdma
2021-01-03T17:14:19 < Steffanx> druggie
2021-01-03T17:14:22 < mawk> :(
2021-01-03T17:14:49 < mawk> it's just a question of pre-conceptions and prejudice
2021-01-03T17:15:03 < mawk> but humans sure are like rats, that would gladly push the "pleasure" pedal all day if they could
2021-01-03T17:15:10 < Mangy_Dog> ok bringing up the old topic again... so the plan is to move away from libmaple based roger clarks core... libopencm3 has already been suggest as the go to alt... what else is there? 
2021-01-03T17:15:14 < mawk> you just need to overcome the initial repulsion towards drugs to realize how amazing it is
2021-01-03T17:15:32 < mawk> HAL Mangy_Dog 
2021-01-03T17:15:51 < Mangy_Dog> the basic goal of me moving away from the arduino like rogers core... is if i got a job tomorrow... what would they expect me to be using
2021-01-03T17:15:58 < Mangy_Dog> i admit i rather not deal with HAL :p
2021-01-03T17:16:06 < Mangy_Dog> it seems like a whole mess of worms to deal with
2021-01-03T17:16:16 < mawk> you haven't even tried
2021-01-03T17:16:18 < mawk> how can you say that
2021-01-03T17:16:28 < mawk> it would just take you 20 minutes to get it blinking
2021-01-03T17:16:32 < mawk> just try it instead of guessing
2021-01-03T17:16:38 < Mangy_Dog> from what... admitidly little ive seen of it
2021-01-03T17:16:39 < mawk> and at my company they use stdperiph, the thing before HAL
2021-01-03T17:17:18 < Mangy_Dog> also the other MAIN goal... is to open up the entire stm32 mcu range for me to play with
2021-01-03T17:17:27 < mawk> HAL supports the entire stm32 range
2021-01-03T17:17:29 < mawk> by definition
2021-01-03T17:17:32 < Mangy_Dog> well true
2021-01-03T17:17:53 -!- fenugrec_ is now known as fenugrec
2021-01-03T17:18:46 < Steffanx> Except that for every family you kinda need a different version of the "HAL".
2021-01-03T17:20:01 < Mangy_Dog> once i got this tricorder project finished (hopefully over teh next month or two) im going to be starting up a new digital speedo project... and im likely looking at an f4 chip for that as I want to handle some bigger things like image data (cameras) and what not
2021-01-03T17:20:18 < Mangy_Dog> gps tracking logging and so on and so forth
2021-01-03T17:37:29 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: chibios is pretty nice
2021-01-03T17:37:51 < jpa-> but a job would expect you to use STM32 cube with IAR compiler probably :D
2021-01-03T17:42:00 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-01-03T17:42:19 < Mangy_Dog> wait i thought chibios was something that sat on top of a base library
2021-01-03T17:42:22 < Mangy_Dog> not the base library itsself:?
2021-01-03T17:42:31 < Mangy_Dog> baselibrary/core/enviroment
2021-01-03T17:42:44 < Mangy_Dog> simularly to freertos
2021-01-03T17:49:57 < jpa-> chibios has its own HAL library for hardware access
2021-01-03T17:50:02 < jpa-> one of the best
2021-01-03T17:50:24 < jpa-> one can use the chibios HAL without chibios operating system, if you want, but i haven't tried it that way
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2021-01-03T18:27:22 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/IXMx5N1hvuw
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2021-01-03T18:28:35 < Steffanx> mawk: I think i made it 2 seconds into the video. Arent you proud?
2021-01-03T18:28:47 < mawk> it doesn't even start until a minute
2021-01-03T18:28:49 < mawk> you coward
2021-01-03T18:29:18 < mawk> it's only a weak intro in the beggining
2021-01-03T18:29:31 < Steffanx> ITS FUCKING AWFUL
2021-01-03T18:29:37 < mawk> no it's not
2021-01-03T18:29:43 < mawk> it's highly melodic
2021-01-03T18:30:12 < mawk> it starts at 0:55
2021-01-03T18:30:19 < mawk> before is just a gentle intro
2021-01-03T19:29:30 < zyp> the fuck is that shit
2021-01-03T19:30:35 < Steffanx> dont ask, somethings are better left alone
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2021-01-03T19:34:01 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: handling images on F4 is like coding without an arm
2021-01-03T19:34:52 < qyx> you definitely want to keep the whole frame in SRAM, it doesn't matter if RGB or JPEG
2021-01-03T19:35:19 < qyx> so you are limited to about 1024x768 of JPEG data with cameras supporting direct JPEG output
2021-01-03T19:36:21 < Steffanx> > SDRAM?
2021-01-03T19:37:13 < qyx> or that
2021-01-03T19:37:36 < qyx> but I am not entirely sure Mangy_Dog wants SDRAM
2021-01-03T19:41:35 < Mangy_Dog> cant the f4 do extended ram?
2021-01-03T19:42:07 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i dont need a lot of res... its more for a simple capture whos riding the bike in event of being stolen security thing....
2021-01-03T19:45:50 < Mangy_Dog> it also wont be a case of displaying an image on screen either
2021-01-03T19:46:11 < Mangy_Dog> I could maybe take the image data, and transfer it small cunk by small chuck to its location
2021-01-03T19:46:16 < Mangy_Dog> be it flash or gsm data
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2021-01-03T20:04:02 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I worked out the answer to my question about barrage balloons
2021-01-03T20:04:24 < Laurenceb> The static pressure from the lifting gas is what keeps the nose inflated
2021-01-03T20:05:01 < Laurenceb> so the scoop has a pressure recovery factor of 0.9 or so, then the extra 10% to keep the nose inflated comes from the lifting gas
2021-01-03T20:07:13 < Laurenceb> with pressure recovery of 90% of dynamic pressure from the scoop, then the balloon nose stays inflated up to 70mph or so windspeed
2021-01-03T20:07:56 < Laurenceb> this also explains why they seem to have put a lot fo work into the scoops, with divertors etc
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2021-01-03T20:09:35 < Laurenceb> also it seems there was a burst disc in the side so the whole thing failed safely in event of very high winds
2021-01-03T20:10:50 < Laurenceb> thats pretty  impressive: no electronics/control systems at all
2021-01-03T20:14:27 < Laurenceb> nowadays such a system would be coded in node.js running on the cloud using raspberry pi
2021-01-03T20:16:02 < fenugrec> mawk how was that new year rave that the police wasnt able to stop but they busted everybody on the way out
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2021-01-03T20:26:05 < mawk> yeah in britanny
2021-01-03T20:26:10 < mawk> it kept me lauging the past week
2021-01-03T20:26:50 < mawk> day 1 "local police cannot stop the party" day 2 "the region supervisor cannot stop the party" day 3 "national police cannot stop the party" 
2021-01-03T20:26:56 < mawk> I was expecting they send the army
2021-01-03T20:27:10 < mawk> they cut power at some moment, but the ravers had diesel generators or something
2021-01-03T20:27:16 < mawk> and kept partying
2021-01-03T20:27:28 < mawk> now they're trying to trap ravers on the way out but many escaped lol
2021-01-03T20:29:52 < mawk> didn't like the music zyp ?
2021-01-03T20:32:44 < mawk> don't want to burn it all down?
2021-01-03T20:33:46 < Steffanx> its no music
2021-01-03T20:40:38 < mawk> yes it is
2021-01-03T20:40:49 < mawk> it's industrial hardcore
2021-01-03T20:40:54 < mawk> or noisecore maybe
2021-01-03T20:40:56 < mawk> boom boom
2021-01-03T20:41:24 < Steffanx> noise.
2021-01-03T20:44:07 < mawk> lol
2021-01-03T20:44:12 < mawk> I was sure you would like it
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2021-01-03T21:06:30 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, yeah, f4 can do external ram, can even do dram if you've got f42x
2021-01-03T21:06:49 < zyp> it's just that external ram is a bunch of signals to hook up
2021-01-03T21:09:51 < zyp> IIRC some of the f7 parts supports hyperbus, so if you need a cortex-m with a lot of ram, one of those plus a hyperram chip is probably the easiest solution
2021-01-03T21:10:43 < zyp> «a lot of ram» is relative, the available hyperram chips are 8MB
2021-01-03T21:26:32 < zyp> wonder how common support for rpc dram is gonna get
2021-01-03T21:27:17 < zyp> they are apparently only available in 32MB parts now, but the flyer talks about up to 1GB parts
2021-01-03T21:58:40 < mawk> 1GB part wow
2021-01-03T21:58:52 < mawk> might as well take a dual A/M part if you want that much ram
2021-01-03T21:59:18 < mawk> ah you mean external ram
2021-01-03T21:59:27 < mawk> https://etronamerica.com/products/rpc-dram/
2021-01-03T21:59:32 < mawk> etron technology what
2021-01-03T22:06:17 < Steffanx> 1GB in theory mawk ...
2021-01-03T22:06:45 < Steffanx> ok, it supports it in practice probably, but .. meh
2021-01-03T22:07:15 < mawk> etron = shit
2021-01-03T22:08:00 < mawk> Shite Technologie, SA au capital de 1 697 235,00 €
2021-01-03T22:18:37 < Steffanx> hm
2021-01-03T22:33:12 < englishman> lol étron technologies
2021-01-03T22:38:35 < Steffanx> no, thats wrong englishman . It's le, la of les, not lol.
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2021-01-03T22:48:24 < fenugrec> etronamerica = American Turds.com
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2021-01-03T22:55:30 < Laurenceb> protocols of the learned elders of Hybernea 
2021-01-03T23:03:12 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn3KWM1kuAw
2021-01-03T23:05:13 < jadew> "What better way to get into the human psyche and convince people that these guys are cute and cuddly 
2021-01-03T23:05:15 < jadew> They're not only going to take all manual jobs but look out dance instructors You guys are next.
2021-01-03T23:07:15 < Steffanx> "that these guys are cute and cuddly " fuck no
2021-01-03T23:07:19 < Steffanx> they are just programmed to do that
2021-01-03T23:08:12 < jadew> yeah, they're amazing, but everyone is creeped out when watching them
2021-01-03T23:08:25 < Steffanx> The only cool thing is that they can do it, the movements. but thats all
2021-01-03T23:08:56 < Steffanx> and i want to hear the original sound, not the music.
2021-01-03T23:09:23 < jadew> they probably sound like your 3d printer
2021-01-03T23:09:59 < jadew> wanna bet they'll be used for war in our lifetime?
2021-01-03T23:10:21 < Steffanx> Im not sure
2021-01-03T23:10:48 < jadew> "We finally got our men out of the middle east. We replaced them with robots."
2021-01-03T23:13:58 < jadew> I wonder what vulnerabilities they have
2021-01-03T23:14:00 < zyp> this video has sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sBBaNYex3E
2021-01-03T23:14:25 < jadew> not too bad
2021-01-03T23:14:27 < zyp> fairly quiet
2021-01-03T23:14:33 < jadew> yeah
2021-01-03T23:20:31 < Steffanx> oh, no longer that huuuge generator like that other one?
2021-01-03T23:20:37 < Steffanx> huge noisy
2021-01-03T23:23:44 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgaO45SyaO4 that one seems more noisy
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2021-01-03T23:43:30 < zyp> played a bit more with sphinx, got it to ingest doxygen data: http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/sandbox.html
2021-01-03T23:44:05 < zyp> no doxygen annotations in source yet
2021-01-03T23:46:15 < zyp> figured out what roles the breathe and exhale extensions for sphinx play
2021-01-03T23:47:49 < zyp> breathe gives you directives to grab stuff from doxygen and renter it on a page in sphinx
2021-01-03T23:48:30 < zyp> exhale autogenerates pages with breathe directives for each thing doxygen found in the source
2021-01-03T23:49:25 < zyp> so I'm currently debating whether exhale is worth trying
2021-01-03T23:50:43 < zyp> just generating an uncurated API reference from plain source doesn't result in very useful documentation
2021-01-03T23:51:39 < zyp> and I'm not a fan of stuffing the source full of directives to control how the documentation generator should read it
2021-01-03T23:57:00 < qyx> I like your progress, I will insipre myself
2021-01-03T23:57:13 < qyx> hm, the doc is 50% the display width
--- Day changed Mon Jan 04 2021
2021-01-04T00:00:29 < zyp> leaves room for the code editor on the other half :p
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2021-01-04T00:01:27 < qyx> TIL: qyx@qyx4:~$ xrandr --output HDMI-2 --brightness 0.4
2021-01-04T00:02:05 < zyp> is that using CEC or DDC or what?
2021-01-04T00:02:12 < qyx> ddc apparently
2021-01-04T00:02:16 < zyp> nice
2021-01-04T00:02:21 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-04T00:03:01 < zyp> I figured I might as well give exhale a try just to see how it looks, since it's just a few lines to enable the extension
2021-01-04T00:03:22 < zyp> but apparently that doesn't work very well :p
2021-01-04T00:03:41 < zyp> sphinx.util.cfamily.DefinitionError: Invalid C++ declaration: Expected identifier in nested name. [error at 1]
2021-01-04T00:04:05 < zyp> not invalid according to gcc :p
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2021-01-04T00:08:30 < zyp> ah, apparently it interprets __attribute__((packed)) as a function name and doesn't understand the extra parantheses
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2021-01-04T00:20:12 < qyx> fellow kicaders, isn't your eeschema ~slow? I upgraded from 5.1.4 to 5.1.8 and it looks like the whole UI is lagging
2021-01-04T00:20:38 < qyx> eg. searching in a component library (pressing "a") is slow
2021-01-04T00:20:51 < qyx> opening symbol properties ("e") is slow
2021-01-04T00:20:51 < qyx> etc.
2021-01-04T00:21:13 < qyx> doing undo takes 1-2 sec
2021-01-04T00:21:27 < Steffanx> My eeschema has always been slow.
2021-01-04T00:21:56 < Steffanx> Last time i used it was on macos and the viewport was AWFULLY slow
2021-01-04T00:22:06 < Steffanx> > years ago
2021-01-04T00:22:15 < qyx> the viewport is the only fast thing
2021-01-04T00:22:42 < qyx> even if eeschema is minimized and you are trying to edit the pcb layout, it is slow because eeschema highlights components on the background
2021-01-04T00:23:14 < qyx> if you close eeschema, doing layout in pcbnew is.. as it should be
2021-01-04T00:27:40 < zyp> this is a pretty terrible mess: http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/exhale/index.html :)
2021-01-04T00:30:18 < Steffanx> Lol.
2021-01-04T00:31:58 < zyp> but some of the individual pages it generates are reasonable
2021-01-04T00:32:24 < zyp> http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/exhale/class_u_s_b__generic.html <- this wouldn't look too bad if the methods had docstrings
2021-01-04T00:47:13 < fenugrec> Apparently recent(?) cubemx has a "List pinout compatible MCUs" function, neat
2021-01-04T00:48:06 < zyp> how compatible is compatible? :)
2021-01-04T00:49:01 < fenugrec> haven,t tried, screenshots seem to indicate "exact or partial matches", "HW change needed" depending on cases. It'd still be helpful to narrow down choices a lot
2021-01-04T00:49:11 < zyp> ah, nice
2021-01-04T00:50:02 < fenugrec> what I'd really like right now is to get cbumx to add includes as relative paths, not absolute
2021-01-04T00:51:57 < zyp> haha, wtf
2021-01-04T00:52:24 < zyp> wait, do you mean <> vs ""?
2021-01-04T00:52:47 < fenugrec> no, I mean $diff : -<listOptionValue builtIn="false" value="../Drivers/STM32F0xx_HAL_Driver/Inc"/>
2021-01-04T00:52:47 < fenugrec> +<listOptionValue builtIn="false" value="/home/q/STM32Cube/Repository/STM32Cube_FW_F0_V1.11.0/D...
2021-01-04T00:53:21 < fenugrec> not sure what happened - $otherdude was the last one to regenerate code, and when I do it I get abs paths
2021-01-04T00:53:56 < zyp> ah
2021-01-04T00:55:01 < fenugrec> heh according to Nadler, step 3 of "project regeneration after cubemx update " is -restore the .cproject file, cubemx will have trashed it. indeed !
2021-01-04T01:23:04 < emeb> presented w/o comment: https://twitter.com/just_evolved/status/1345141398115397632/photo/1
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2021-01-04T02:20:13 < Steffanx> Lol emeb_mac 
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2021-01-04T02:41:56 < emeb_mac> Steffanx: :)
2021-01-04T02:44:30 < jadew> zyp, I solved that problem a long time ago (with the documentation generation), but haven't polished the thing well enough to release it
2021-01-04T02:45:13 < jadew> my code is now almost free of documentation-related comments
2021-01-04T02:46:01 < jadew> I still keep the stuff that hints the autocomplete engine, but the bulk of the documentation is held in a separate place
2021-01-04T02:46:13 < aandrew> jadew: la multi ani
2021-01-04T02:46:30 < jadew> aandrew, happy new year!
2021-01-04T02:47:41 < jadew> I should go to bed before I ruin my sleep schedule again
2021-01-04T02:47:50 < jadew> waking up like normal people is great
2021-01-04T02:47:57 < aandrew> heh
2021-01-04T02:52:35 < zyp> jadew, that's more or less what I want, I guess
2021-01-04T02:52:49 < zyp> but then again, this stuff is also approaching what I want
2021-01-04T02:54:30 < zyp> I think at this point it's on me to figure out how I want to structure the documentation :)
2021-01-04T02:56:03 < mawk> do I need a pullup on SCK with stm32 spi?
2021-01-04T02:57:47 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210104015743865.png
2021-01-04T02:57:50 < mawk> see the note on top
2021-01-04T03:00:56 < mawk> ah it's only when spi is disabled ok
2021-01-04T03:03:32 < mawk> so I should put a pulldown on it for when the peripheral is disabled
2021-01-04T03:07:00 < englishman> if cs is asserted clk shouldn't matter
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2021-01-04T03:18:35 < zyp> englishman, deasserted, you mean
2021-01-04T03:22:27 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xz1jTRu_NDjUPsXFb_CF2T9SQGomHZ3q/view?usp=sharing hello timing
2021-01-04T03:24:45 < kakium69> driver side valve gear assembled with new chain tensioner, chain and all seals
2021-01-04T03:27:41 < Steffanx> Until you have one of those fancy ICs that samples the clk line on falling edge of the CS to determine if it should use the clock as input or generate the clock itself.
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2021-01-04T10:33:39 < mawk> [IP-Camera left-5A03B58PAG96772] DEBUG - Camera with 5A03B58PAG96772.local has a stream:
2021-01-04T10:33:41 < mawk> rtsp://admin:Lpvipcam8mp4kap!@5A03B58PAG96772.local:554/cam/realmonitor?channel=1&subtype=0
2021-01-04T10:33:46 < mawk> who doesn't love a password in clear in the logs once in a while
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2021-01-04T11:25:59 < karlp> ahh, I see jade solved code docs, in private unshared never to be shared code again :)
2021-01-04T11:27:49 < mawk> this? https://jade-lang.com/
2021-01-04T11:43:28 < mawk> shitty chinese part http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/RFM01.pdf
2021-01-04T11:43:37 < mawk> only on some ukrainian space agency website I could fine the datasheet
2021-01-04T11:43:48 < mawk> and only in the example code typed right in the pdf I can see the full protocol
2021-01-04T11:50:38 < jpa-> karlp: i bet he has a proof of NP=P laying around somewhere, just waiting for finishing touches
2021-01-04T11:57:07 < jadew> karlp, actually I have, and I talked about it years ago
2021-01-04T11:57:56 < jadew> in fact, I remember I asked jpa- to remove the references to it from the logs, because I didn't want interference from my back-then employer, in case they ever stumbled upon it
2021-01-04T12:07:53 < jadew> karlp, http://86.121.70.118/stuff/docdemo.jpeg
2021-01-04T12:08:05 < jadew> that's documentation generated with it
2021-01-04T12:11:27 < jadew> and yeah, that's documentation for another project I didn't release, but which is 100% complete and in use
2021-01-04T12:11:59 < jadew> and it was also meant to be opensource, but I changed my mind about that and about releasing it by the time it was done
2021-01-04T12:18:45 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-01-04T12:24:15 < Steffanx> So its exactly what it always is. Closed sores jadeware. :)
2021-01-04T12:24:19 < Steffanx> :P
2021-01-04T12:24:23 < jadew> well, yeah :P
2021-01-04T12:24:41 < Steffanx> And what... jpa- does censoring?!
2021-01-04T12:25:18 < jadew> is that news? I thought there are several nicknames that are completely invisible to logs :P
2021-01-04T12:26:02 < jadew> he was nice enough to help me with that, I didn't want to spill the beans on the documentation generator anyway
2021-01-04T12:26:13 < jadew> I thought I could make it into a product
2021-01-04T12:26:16 < zyp> jadew, ah, right, now I remember I've laughed about it being php before
2021-01-04T12:26:23 < jadew> zyp, yeah :P
2021-01-04T12:27:38 < jadew> it can accommodate any language tho
2021-01-04T12:28:15 < jadew> would you pay $12 for it?
2021-01-04T12:28:38 < zyp> no
2021-01-04T12:28:57 < jadew> that's why I didn't continue
2021-01-04T12:29:39 < jadew> it can generate documentation in any format btw
2021-01-04T12:30:34 < jadew> anyway, like always, opensource is good enough to displace commercial options, but shitty enough to be in the way anyway
2021-01-04T12:33:13 < qyx> jadew did php doxygen before?
2021-01-04T12:33:25 < qyx> hm
2021-01-04T12:33:34 < jadew> qyx, this is not like doxygen, it's much much better
2021-01-04T12:33:47 < qyx> shame on you
2021-01-04T12:35:45 < jadew> maybe I should try to sell it
2021-01-04T12:36:30 < jadew> my fear is that once released, if it's not 100% ready, it will be copied and made redundant
2021-01-04T12:36:37 < jadew> (by opensource crap)
2021-01-04T12:37:00 < qyx> thats the point
2021-01-04T12:38:13 < Steffanx> Just give it the jadeware loicense.
2021-01-04T12:38:42 < jadew> if you look upon it, I own everything you write afterwords?
2021-01-04T12:38:51 < jadew> I think that one is called GPL
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2021-01-04T12:39:12 < jadew> hah!
2021-01-04T12:40:40 < Steffanx> You should censor your fake news, jpa- 
2021-01-04T12:42:53 < jpa-> but, i do!
2021-01-04T12:49:33 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5OTolOTPRw
2021-01-04T12:50:24 < jadew> who wants to bet they'll extradite him?
2021-01-04T12:54:08 < jadew> with the UK being now independent, they can either turn their belly up for US, showing they're their bitch, or they can stand their ground and show they're for the freedom of the press
2021-01-04T12:56:59 < Steffanx> What is COVID-19? Can you ask those people?
2021-01-04T12:57:34 < jadew> Steffanx, they'll tell you it's last year's flu
2021-01-04T12:57:44 < Steffanx> How many people do you need to take a photo or video?
2021-01-04T13:02:27 < jadew> looks like someone is going to go to that booth and let us know the verdict
2021-01-04T13:04:41 < jadew> they let him free?
2021-01-04T13:05:09 < jadew> haha, they let him free
2021-01-04T13:05:14 < Steffanx> Idk im not watching 
2021-01-04T13:05:39 < Steffanx> Good old ##stm32 cjbaird told us Assange is an asshole
2021-01-04T13:08:53 < BrainDamage> being an asshole is no reason to get indicted tho
2021-01-04T13:09:18 < BrainDamage> otherwise, half of irc users should be chatting from jail
2021-01-04T13:09:27 < jadew> hah
2021-01-04T13:09:41 < BrainDamage> https://bigmemes.funnyjunk.com/hdgifs/Neighbors+lights+at+xmas_9fc0b6_8180687.mp4
2021-01-04T13:10:03 < jadew> nice
2021-01-04T13:11:39 < Steffanx> Hah I know BrainDamage. It was a random statement 
2021-01-04T13:11:54 < CatCow97> lol
2021-01-04T13:12:19 < Steffanx> But it seems he only gets to stay in the UK because of his mental state 
2021-01-04T13:12:35 < CatCow97> even funnier since I am sitting here watching star wars movies
2021-01-04T13:12:43 < jadew> I'm surprised by the verdict tbh
2021-01-04T13:13:22 < jadew> thought the UK would do what the US asked of them, no questions asked
2021-01-04T13:13:44 < BrainDamage> remember that in various nations, the prison system is viewed as a way to reform an individual, not punish it
2021-01-04T13:13:46 < jadew> also, the timing of the ruling was worrying (after the elections)
2021-01-04T13:14:24 < BrainDamage> so no point shaking up an unstable individual
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2021-01-04T13:18:50 < jadew> BrainDamage, you were right, they didn't want to extradite him because he was a suicide risk, otherwise they would have
2021-01-04T13:20:10 < BrainDamage> the verdict is in a way political too
2021-01-04T13:20:35 < BrainDamage> because it allows them to make a statement as "we are ourselves"
2021-01-04T13:21:01 < jadew> yeah, for sure, but they also sided with the US, smart
2021-01-04T13:21:14 < jadew> and the door is still open for an extradition
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2021-01-04T13:36:43 < karlp> jade, yes, I remember you gloating about in the past as well.  it's still irrelevant to anyone :)
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2021-01-04T13:46:45 < jadew> that part may be true, but I'm glad you acknowledge that your insinuation that I'm bullshitting, isn't
2021-01-04T13:47:59 < karlp> well, we still haveabsolutely zero idea of it beyondyourclaims :)
2021-01-04T13:48:15 < karlp> it's not for sale, not free, it effectively doesn't exist.
2021-01-04T13:48:21 < jadew> I think I shared more info on it with someone else here
2021-01-04T13:48:28 < jadew> it exists for me
2021-01-04T13:48:44 < karlp> sure, but just don't get upset when we make fun of you for it :)
2021-01-04T13:49:34 < jadew> eh, I don't get upset about that
2021-01-04T13:49:40 < jadew> I'm upset I didn't make anything of it
2021-01-04T13:59:24 < Steffanx> But did you document the picologger clone yet?
2021-01-04T14:01:06 < jadew> it's on the todo list
2021-01-04T14:02:30 < jadew> subitem for "☐ Get rid of the picologger joke."
2021-01-04T14:02:34 < qyx> it's ok, we have another year started
2021-01-04T14:03:19 < jadew> right... I didn't set goals for this year
2021-01-04T14:03:21 < qyx> hm, I forgot the freewheeling diode in my buck
2021-01-04T14:03:23 < Steffanx> It wasnt a joke, you were damn serious
2021-01-04T14:03:37 < qyx> I have to redo the layout now
2021-01-04T14:03:44 < jadew> Steffanx, oh, I was, I meant your joke
2021-01-04T14:04:21 < jadew> I still think I can make one in less than a day, 3d printed box included
2021-01-04T14:09:35 < Steffanx> Also the desktop sw..
2021-01-04T14:12:21 < jadew> that too
2021-01-04T14:13:56 < BrainDamage> jadew: that reason of thinking re:cloning leads you nowhere
2021-01-04T14:14:06 < BrainDamage> there's 2 important things
2021-01-04T14:14:24 < BrainDamage> how easy is to clone, and how soon you become enough relevant to be cloned
2021-01-04T14:14:39 < mawk> can you censor for me jpa- ?
2021-01-04T14:14:42 < BrainDamage> if you commercialize a product, get discrete success and get cloned, it's no biggie
2021-01-04T14:14:53 < mawk> sed -i 's/mawk.*drug//g' logs.txt
2021-01-04T14:15:22 < BrainDamage> because being cloned won't retroactively remove the revenue you accumulated, it only reduces future
2021-01-04T14:16:10 < BrainDamage> saelae is now cloned to oblivion, still made pretty decent success back then
2021-01-04T14:16:28 < mawk> if you get cloned by your factory you're kinda fucked
2021-01-04T14:16:34 < mawk> they will drive up the price to asphixiate you
2021-01-04T14:16:38 < mawk> and sell your product with your own name on it
2021-01-04T14:16:46 < mawk> and the chinese law can nothing for you if you didn't protect yourself
2021-01-04T14:16:52 < jadew> BrainDamage, that is a good point, but I guess it depends on how much success you have
2021-01-04T14:17:07 < karlp> no clones of current gen salea hw anyway
2021-01-04T14:17:09 < jadew> something like that tool requires a lot of work
2021-01-04T14:17:41 < jadew> and if you don't get a lot of success by the time you're cloned, you could end up in the situation in which you haven't recovered your investment
2021-01-04T14:17:47 < mawk> if you get serious for business you want a chinese lawyer to help you register trademarks and so on probablu
2021-01-04T14:18:01 < mawk> at least to attack your factory if they clone you
2021-01-04T14:18:12 < BrainDamage> mawk: I explicitly said "how easy is to get cloned"
2021-01-04T14:18:28 < BrainDamage> assume the hw is easily clonable
2021-01-04T14:18:58 < BrainDamage> you want any firmware/software detached and installed separately
2021-01-04T14:19:09 < BrainDamage> and get a tighter control over that
2021-01-04T14:19:24 < jadew> yeah, if you can have a key thing done locally, that's a good way of preventing factory cloning
2021-01-04T14:19:42 < BrainDamage> also, one thing I learned is to never, ever have one single supplier for something
2021-01-04T14:19:50 < jadew> simple hw, complex firmware is usually great for this sort of situation
2021-01-04T14:20:07 < BrainDamage> because it's not a question of if, but when, it'll be unavailable for any reason
2021-01-04T14:20:20 < BrainDamage> from vacation, to bankrupt, to whatever
2021-01-04T14:20:23 < jadew> yeah, I've learned that as well
2021-01-04T14:20:49 < jadew> my supplier of shielding cans has stopped producing the cans I'm using
2021-01-04T14:21:44 < jadew> I have >200 on stock now, but at some point I'll have to redesign or make my own cans
2021-01-04T14:22:54 < jpa-> mawk: sorry, no, your lines are being sent realtime to your boss
2021-01-04T14:23:07 < jadew> lol jpa- 
2021-01-04T14:23:36 < jadew> BrainDamage, do you think about clonability when you think about a new product?
2021-01-04T14:24:12 < BrainDamage> i do, only in terms of difficulty
2021-01-04T14:24:39 < BrainDamage> being cloned is just one of the many ways that your revenue is reduced
2021-01-04T14:24:53 < BrainDamage> it's not worth obsessing over it
2021-01-04T14:25:10 < BrainDamage> the market can get saturated, a competitor can design something ex-novo
2021-01-04T14:25:24 < BrainDamage> a new regulation can make it impractical to build/sell
2021-01-04T14:25:45 < jadew> you're right
2021-01-04T14:25:49 < jpa-> you can be so busy obsessing that you're not producing
2021-01-04T14:26:23 < jadew> that sounds familiar
2021-01-04T14:28:25 < BrainDamage> think of it as an optimization problem, you need to weight each scenario of revenue loss for the probability of it happening
2021-01-04T14:28:58 < BrainDamage> so as long as "it's unlikely that I'll get cloned as soon as it's out", there's several other much more important scenarios
2021-01-04T14:30:25 < jadew> the target market matters a lot too
2021-01-04T14:31:13 < jadew> if you're target includes electronic hobbyists, the odds of them opening it up and displaying it on EEVblog are close to 100%
2021-01-04T14:31:19 < BrainDamage> oh, and another thing, along capital gains you get before you're cloned, you gain one immaterial one that's highly prized among companies, and it's recognition
2021-01-04T14:32:02 < jadew> *your
2021-01-04T14:32:08 < BrainDamage> if you're no more jane doe, if you launch another product you have half advertisement already paid for
2021-01-04T14:32:23 < jadew> *if your target market
2021-01-04T14:32:49 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, that's true, but that's more of a secondary perk I think
2021-01-04T14:33:32 < BrainDamage> if you account how much advertisement costs, and reaching to the customers, you'll realize it's not a secondary perk at all
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2021-01-04T14:34:01 < BrainDamage> even being famous on the hobby community, if your target is the hobby community, is a great deal
2021-01-04T14:35:06 < jadew> that's true, yeah
2021-01-04T14:35:13 < BrainDamage> your products don't generate revenue sitting on the shelf, and I don't mean obnoxious advertising, rather, let the people who might be interested in your product be aware of its existance
2021-01-04T14:35:56 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@2001:16b8:1c19:3800:a8f3:a4bf:3839:a201] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-01-04T14:36:28 < BrainDamage> the advertisment industry has insane amount of money flowing through, both in and out
2021-01-04T14:37:00 < BrainDamage> they desperately try to leech any info on the population in order to limit the "out" expenses
2021-01-04T14:37:21 < BrainDamage> I consider that unethical
2021-01-04T14:40:33 < BrainDamage> saelae can push out a new product and since you're familiar with the hobby community you're immediately aware of it
2021-01-04T14:40:46 < BrainDamage> it doesn't even need to advertise it to you that much
2021-01-04T14:41:20 < BrainDamage> send a few samples for review, get a few blog posts and it's done
2021-01-04T14:56:26 < mawk> what can I bribe you with jpa-?
2021-01-04T14:57:03 < mawk> a good cigar?
2021-01-04T14:57:15 < jpa-> mawk: a good photo of Steffanx 
2021-01-04T14:57:27 < mawk> hmm hmm
2021-01-04T15:00:27 < mawk> come here Steffanx 
2021-01-04T15:00:29 < mawk> I have something for you
2021-01-04T15:08:19 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-01-04T15:33:01 < Steffanx> Thanks mawk
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2021-01-04T16:26:05 < mawk> "crystal load capacitor" what's that
2021-01-04T16:26:10 < mawk> what should I choose
2021-01-04T16:26:14 < mawk> crystal is 10MHz
2021-01-04T16:26:30 < mawk> there is no label on the capacitor, I'm not even sure there's a capacitor on the board
2021-01-04T16:26:34 < mawk> 12pF is a regular value?
2021-01-04T16:26:41 < mawk> what happens if I select the wrong value?
2021-01-04T16:27:32 < jpa-> your oscillator becomes an amplifier
2021-01-04T16:27:52 < jpa-> and/or it will oscillate at slightly wrong frequency
2021-01-04T16:28:00 < mawk> hm
2021-01-04T16:28:15 < mawk> so if I hook a scope to the crystal, I can tell which setting is the right one
2021-01-04T16:28:20 < mawk> by looking which one gets it closest to 10MHz?
2021-01-04T16:29:36 < jpa-> nope
2021-01-04T16:29:46 < jpa-> your scope probe will have too much capacitance, even at 10x
2021-01-04T16:29:59 < jpa-> you just look at the crystal specifications for the correct value
2021-01-04T16:30:01 < mawk> I mean in circuit
2021-01-04T16:30:03 < mawk> ah
2021-01-04T16:30:23 < mawk> it's a standard looking 10MHz crystal, let's say 15pF
2021-01-04T16:31:30 < jpa-> ...
2021-01-04T16:32:00 < karlp> hehehe
2021-01-04T16:32:07 < karlp> what are you _actually_ tryign to do?
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2021-01-04T16:37:59 < Laurenceb> chad level: Julian Assange
2021-01-04T16:40:05 < jpa-> huh.. i was hoping that brexit meant that Laurenceb wouldn't be getting on the internet anymore :o
2021-01-04T16:40:29 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-04T16:40:42 < Laurenceb> nah I just wont get any food
2021-01-04T16:43:23 < specing> customs on the internet? That'd be new
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2021-01-04T16:48:58 < mawk> karlp: I have a RF receiver module which I'm trying to use
2021-01-04T16:49:06 < mawk> it's a ready-made module
2021-01-04T16:49:19 < zyp> mawk, https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/crystal-load-wisdom.txt#L15
2021-01-04T16:49:21 < mawk> and in the datasheet in the configuration I'm supposed to provide a "crystal load capacitor"
2021-01-04T16:49:27 < zyp> wat
2021-01-04T16:49:29 < zyp> for a module?
2021-01-04T16:49:33 < mawk> yes
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2021-01-04T16:50:04 < karlp> isn't this rfm12b shit you linked earlier?
2021-01-04T16:50:15 < mawk> http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/RFM01.pdf
2021-01-04T16:50:17 < mawk> yes
2021-01-04T16:50:19 < mawk> rfm01b
2021-01-04T16:50:38 < zyp> if you're doing RF, the load capacitance is important -- I fucked it up once and it resulted in my radio missing the correct channel
2021-01-04T16:50:39 < karlp> there's a crystal in the module, what are yo utalking about
2021-01-04T16:50:40 < mawk> the only place I found the datasheet is on the ukrainian space agency website or something
2021-01-04T16:50:54 < mawk> yes karlp , so what should I put as value?
2021-01-04T16:51:17 < karlp> put where?!
2021-01-04T16:51:21 < karlp> what are you trying to do?
2021-01-04T16:51:27 < zyp> oh
2021-01-04T16:51:32 < zyp> section two in that pdf
2021-01-04T16:51:33 < mawk> 15:49 <mawk> and in the datasheet in the configuration I'm supposed to provide a "crystal load capacitor"
2021-01-04T16:51:33 < zyp> wtf
2021-01-04T16:51:56 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210104155153065.png
2021-01-04T16:52:43 < jpa-> you're probably supposed to tune it with that
2021-01-04T16:53:19 < karlp> sounds like it, yeah,
2021-01-04T16:53:28 < karlp> why do you have these?
2021-01-04T16:53:52 < jpa-> so, not actually providing a capacitor, just providing an integer :)
2021-01-04T16:54:09 < karlp> I'd just pick a middle value.
2021-01-04T16:54:24 < karlp> if you start measuring, you can maybe tweak itt a bit and get a bit more/bitless range,
2021-01-04T16:54:41 < karlp> but it will depend on the set of modules you're trying to use together.
2021-01-04T16:54:50 < karlp> but really, why are you trying to use these?
2021-01-04T16:55:03 < jpa-> "To integrate the load capacitor internal can not only save cost, but also adjust reference frequency by software."
2021-01-04T16:55:44 < mawk> I just found one in scrap so I'm trying to use it
2021-01-04T16:55:48 < mawk> no real reason
2021-01-04T16:55:51 < jpa-> it seems they have copied part of the datasheet of the chip they are using on the module
2021-01-04T16:55:54 < karlp> pretty sure rfm12b supersedes rfm01, and https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/12770 supersedes that, and even further...
2021-01-04T16:56:16 < jpa-> so most of the docs are for the chip itself, and do not know about the crystal they've put on the module
2021-01-04T16:56:31 < karlp> rfm22 is the successor these days I think, if you're into that shit
2021-01-04T16:56:48 < karlp> and rfm69
2021-01-04T16:56:49 < jpa-> but yeah, you could tune it with a scope or frequency counter
2021-01-04T16:57:26 < mawk> yes rfm69 is what I ended up buying when I wanted to do something wireless but had no idea what to do
2021-01-04T16:57:29 < mawk> now it's in a box somewhere
2021-01-04T16:58:56 < mawk> the best reason I can give for using rfm01 is that it gave me an excuse to try the logic analyzer
2021-01-04T17:01:49 < mawk> it's not even on sale anymore on ali for the 868MHz version
2021-01-04T17:03:01 < englishman> p sure I used a rfm69 in like 2014
2021-01-04T17:03:29 < englishman> I don't think one supercedes the other but they all differ in some annoying way
2021-01-04T17:04:01 < englishman> so you have to wade through all the mostly-copypasted datasheets to find which one you need
2021-01-04T17:04:30 < englishman> and cross-reference the appropriate semtech datasheet that won't match 100%
2021-01-04T17:05:53 < mawk> why semtech?
2021-01-04T17:06:50 < jpa-> because RFM69 modules use semtech chips
2021-01-04T17:07:06 < Steffanx> jpa- whatsapp knows what i looked like. So maybe you can bribe the brains or tct for a copy ;)
2021-01-04T17:07:54 < jpa-> Steffanx: i bet that photo does not fullfill my quality standards
2021-01-04T17:08:01 < karlp> englishman: hrm, iirc at least some were direct successors, but yeah, all weirdly incompatible in different ways :)
2021-01-04T17:08:20 < karlp> I always think steffanx looks like stephane from libmodbus, even though I know they're not the same people
2021-01-04T17:08:35 < englishman> I picture people as their cats
2021-01-04T17:08:44 < englishman> except you Karl, I picture you as an iceberg
2021-01-04T17:09:05  * karlp giggles
2021-01-04T17:09:23 < jpa-> i just imagine everyone looks like their satw figure
2021-01-04T17:09:57 < mawk> Steffanx saw me
2021-01-04T17:10:05 < mawk> and apparently I don't look like he imagined
2021-01-04T17:11:02 < Steffanx> I did?
2021-01-04T17:11:05 < mawk> yes you did
2021-01-04T17:11:07 < mawk> with the girl
2021-01-04T17:11:16 < Steffanx> No I didnt
2021-01-04T17:11:18 < mawk> yes
2021-01-04T17:11:21 < mawk> photo of girl and me
2021-01-04T17:11:27 < Steffanx> No
2021-01-04T17:11:28 < mawk> you have short memory
2021-01-04T17:11:30 < mawk> yesss
2021-01-04T17:11:32 < Steffanx> Only the girl.
2021-01-04T17:11:37 < mawk> I was on the picture too
2021-01-04T17:11:59 < Steffanx> Proof it
2021-01-04T17:12:28 < mawk> yes
2021-01-04T17:12:30 < mawk> hold on
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2021-01-04T18:05:32 < zyp> mawk, if it's any consolation, Steffanx didn't look like I imagined either
2021-01-04T18:09:35 < Steffanx> Same same zyp
2021-01-04T18:10:30 < Steffanx> And I think you posted a photo of yourself here ages ago.
2021-01-04T18:13:48 < mawk> I can sell you my photo zyp 
2021-01-04T18:14:03 < mawk> and for only 50% more you get the photo with the girl on it
2021-01-04T18:59:23 < skz81_> hm... I flashed a 3rd party code on my nucleo (F429ZI) board. Seems it gets stuck on the entry point (declare in the link script as "ENTRY(Reset_Handler)")
2021-01-04T18:59:44 < karlp> probably sometthing hanging waiting for a wrong clock...
2021-01-04T19:00:37 < skz81_> declared*. gdb lists it as the closing bracket of an empty Restart function I can't find nowhere in the binary -_-'
2021-01-04T19:01:35 < skz81_> karlp, that thing is supposed to work, sadly the guy who did it is on holyday, so i'm trying stuff randomely, like asking here :p
2021-01-04T19:02:20 < karlp> well, you're going to need to share a litlt e more :)
2021-01-04T19:02:28 < karlp> you can for starters run it in gdb and see where it hangs...
2021-01-04T19:03:31 < skz81_> http://pastebin.fr/79676
2021-01-04T19:03:48 < skz81_> karlp, exactly what I did ^
2021-01-04T19:04:09 < Steffanx> skz81_ is french?
2021-01-04T19:04:40 < skz81_> Steffanx, yup, did I let some french behind in my paste or something ?
2021-01-04T19:04:55 < fenugrec> "pastebin.fr"
2021-01-04T19:05:04 < jpa-> skz81_: "info registers" and check if your stack pointer is ok
2021-01-04T19:05:32 < skz81_> fenugrec, ha yes, just typed "pastebin" in ggl and clicked :]
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2021-01-04T19:08:35 < karlp> skz81_: learn to gdb?
2021-01-04T19:08:47 < karlp> file yourfile.elf, then your bt will be useful?
2021-01-04T19:09:13 < karlp> if you've hung there, are you actrually in a hardfault?
2021-01-04T19:09:23 < karlp> is your memory size wrong?
2021-01-04T19:09:33 < jpa-> it seems he has the .elf but it is compiled without debug symbols
2021-01-04T19:09:37 < karlp> that's another classic one, if someone expected more ram, and you tried to set the stack to past the end of ram
2021-01-04T19:10:55 < skz81_> karlp, I pass the elf on the command line. jpa- It *SHOULD* be compiled with debug syms. The Makefile has an option for that, but leeme check
2021-01-04T19:13:15 < skz81_> It compiles with -g3 -gdwarf, isn't that enough ? jpa- ?
2021-01-04T19:13:33 < jpa-> should be; does it pass that to the linker (ld) step also?
2021-01-04T19:15:00 < skz81_> jpa-, ha, no it doesn't. I guess it's better if I add it ?
2021-01-04T19:15:50 < jpa-> well, it's necessary to get debugging symbols in the final .elf
2021-01-04T19:22:47 < skz81_> That's not much better... still that 1 liner "#0  0x0802c284 in Reset_Handler ()" backtrace. I confirm that 0x0802c284 is the entry point of the binary 
2021-01-04T19:27:21 < fenugrec> skz81_, you're compiling with the proper -mthumb  etc ?
2021-01-04T19:27:24 < skz81_> Lol, i'm dumb. Obviously when you start it with gdb, you have to explicitly "run" it
2021-01-04T19:27:47 < skz81_> fenugrec, I assume, the Makefile was in the delivered archive
2021-01-04T19:28:42 < skz81_> Ok, now i'm in the main() function, I can start serious job :]
2021-01-04T19:28:48 < skz81_> so dumb I was
2021-01-04T19:28:56 < skz81_> good evening, thanks ppl !
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2021-01-04T19:36:25 < qyx> I am trying to integrate stlinkv3-mini MODS, the PCB solderable one
2021-01-04T19:36:49 < qyx> the USB is not available on the connector
2021-01-04T19:36:54 < qyx> also, there is no 5B output
2021-01-04T19:37:42 < qyx> so meh, there must be two distinct micro-B connectors, one provides 5V power + usb->ethernet bridge for debug
2021-01-04T19:38:00 < qyx> the other one provides 5V for stlink only + SWD for debug
2021-01-04T19:42:34 < fenugrec> good deal : 530$ with shipping https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HP-FH966AA-eSATA-Adapter/254695612845
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2021-01-04T19:45:50 < qyx> "Despite what is written in the User Manual (UM2502) provided from ST, I’ve found in the CAD library and verified in my board that from Pin 22 (marked as Reserved) is it possible to get the 5V coming from the USB. "
2021-01-04T19:45:59 < qyx> they deserve to be killed
2021-01-04T19:52:18 < aandrew> fenugrec: lol yeah I use a lot of surplused equipment and the prices some poeple think they can get for 15yo tech is hilarious
2021-01-04T19:52:42 < aandrew> today for example I just bought 2x SAS controllers for an old ES20 16-drive bay and two power supplies for the same
2021-01-04T19:53:01 < aandrew> newegg.com had the power supplies for $26 ea but won't ship to canada. newegg.ca has the same thing, same vendor, $100 ea
2021-01-04T19:53:15 < aandrew> ebay'd two for $29ea instead
2021-01-04T19:54:02 < aandrew> the controllers were anywhere from $40 ea to $140 ea, I offered one guy $20ea for 2, he came back with $30, then another guy I offered accepted the $20ea
2021-01-04T19:54:28 < fenugrec> aandrew, yeah some of those insane listings just figure listing the proper part# makes it worth 10x the price. I guess some people don't want to spend 15 seconds shopping
2021-01-04T19:54:57 < fenugrec> SAS controllers... with fibrechannel and all that stuff ?
2021-01-04T19:55:26 < aandrew> oh sorry, the ebay'd power supplies were $15 ea
2021-01-04T19:56:40 < aandrew> it's an ancient dell ES20 storage array. no raid or anything, just redundant power and controllers for 16 drives. use a mini-sas cable to get it over to a P212 controller in the computer which has been lobotomized to ONLY be a SAS controller, not a shitty RAID controller
2021-01-04T19:56:47 < aandrew> then mdadm+lvm gives me access to it all
2021-01-04T19:57:31 < fenugrec> 16 drives... probably warms up your place pretty well
2021-01-04T19:57:40 < aandrew> so I have lots of room to grow, no dependencies on proprietary software/firmware, and spare power/cables/controllers on the shelf when they inevitably fail
2021-01-04T19:57:51 < aandrew> it's actually not too bad, I have 6 populated at the moment
2021-01-04T19:58:00 < aandrew> the C6100 blade server it's connected to creates more heat
2021-01-04T19:58:39 < aandrew> four blades, each dual xeon and up to 192GB of RAM, also with redundant power
2021-01-04T19:59:18 < fenugrec> what are you doing with that
2021-01-04T19:59:22 < aandrew> one blade is my ubuntu file server/plex server, another is my ESXi blade for VMs, other two are not plugged in (they're in there but pulled out just a bit)
2021-01-04T19:59:29 < aandrew> I did have my firewall on one of the blades but had to replace it
2021-01-04T20:00:05 < aandrew> it's basically my main computing backend. I have laptops and a workstation but they're mostly just talking to that
2021-01-04T20:00:32 < fenugrec> that's a lot of sysadminning for a fileserver hehe
2021-01-04T20:00:36 < aandrew> I hope this will take care of my computing needs until I retire, I hate buying computer shit
2021-01-04T20:01:16 < aandrew> not really -- ubuntu boots off a usb key and sees all the drives, it's not any different than any other raid system except that I can easily replace/grow storage without powering anything off 
2021-01-04T20:02:36 < aandrew> I try to keep a spare everything on the shelf so it can be replaced right away and then I can be more selective trying to find the replacement  because old hardware is hard to find sometimes and you have to do some digging to avoid the scalpers
2021-01-04T20:03:07 < aandrew> qyx: interesting, I haven't tried to use stlinkv3 for much
2021-01-04T20:03:37 < aandrew> qyx: I wonder if there's some problem with the trace going to pin 22 that they decided to just mark it as reserved
2021-01-04T20:08:16 < aandrew> I've got that Beatles classic running through my head: "while my SAS gently beeps"
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2021-01-04T20:44:16 < antto> i tossed an eyeball at the xmega DMA, it has 4 channels, and it's explained kinda moar better (atmel datasheet), they mention double buffering as a very typical scenario, and to do that you have to link two DMA channels
2021-01-04T20:45:09 < antto> but it looks slightly different than the DMA in the same54, i didn't see any descriptors mentioned
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2021-01-04T21:00:54 < Laurenceb> >xmega
2021-01-04T21:01:07 < Laurenceb> I used an avr32 linux board back when it existed
2021-01-04T21:01:19 < Laurenceb> pre raspberry pi
2021-01-04T21:03:27 < mawk> aren't you ashamed?
2021-01-04T21:05:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.mike-stirling.com/2009/02/mono-stn-display-on-an-avr32-ap7000/
2021-01-04T21:05:09 < Laurenceb> that thing
2021-01-04T21:06:38 < Laurenceb> didnt realise it had lcd support in lunix, kind of neat
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2021-01-04T21:12:41 < Laurenceb> wasnt the application processor avr32 cancelled?
2021-01-04T21:15:53 < mawk> 312.5 KB/s baudrate for SPI isn't too high if I have too long wires?
2021-01-04T21:16:53 < qyx> let's have 9 kilowords per furlong going over a bridge, is it much?
2021-01-04T21:17:28 < mawk> lol
2021-01-04T21:17:36 < mawk> long like the regular hobbyist dupont wire 
2021-01-04T21:18:00 < mawk> going through a breadboard
2021-01-04T21:18:14 < mawk> when I reset the device I get a different status word every time I read it
2021-01-04T21:18:29 < mawk> maybe it's a hardware random generator and not a radio receiver after all
2021-01-04T21:24:05 < BrainDamage> 1MHz won't be a big problem with a flying wire on a breadboard
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2021-01-04T21:26:22 < Laurenceb> NGW100 was actually quite neat
2021-01-04T21:26:29 < Laurenceb> at least as useful as rpi
2021-01-04T21:29:14 < Laurenceb> also lol @ tinker board having better io than rpi
2021-01-04T21:29:58 < BrainDamage> 10 will start getting glitches
2021-01-04T21:32:23 < fenugrec> do #stm32pros report documentation issues to ST ? if so, how ?
2021-01-04T21:37:13 < Thorn> I'm looking @ tcxos in lcsc, most of them seem to have weird frequencies: 38.4, 16.367667, 16.369 MHz. why?
2021-01-04T21:37:28 < Thorn> why not 24 or 25 MHz
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2021-01-04T21:38:40 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb, NGW100 -_-
2021-01-04T21:38:53 < fenugrec> probably freqs for PLLing up to wireless frequencies
2021-01-04T21:38:56 < Laurenceb> still better than rpi
2021-01-04T21:39:24 < fenugrec> sortof like 3.579545 for NTSC, 3.6864 for modems, 10.7 for FM IF...
2021-01-04T21:39:27 < Steffanx> Yeah, 1000 times slower for sure
2021-01-04T21:39:37 < Laurenceb> >muh cpu corez
2021-01-04T21:39:58 < Laurenceb> the xmos mindset
2021-01-04T21:40:22 < fenugrec> Thorn, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator_frequencies
2021-01-04T21:40:53 < Steffanx> Too bad i threw away the 50 AT32AP7000s i had Laurenceb  :P
2021-01-04T21:48:07 < karlp> fenugrec: that's one thing zephyr is good for ;)
2021-01-04T21:48:40 < karlp> eg https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/hal_stm32/pull/22
2021-01-04T21:49:10 < fenugrec> karlp, ah, I mean in an RM for example
2021-01-04T21:49:46 < karlp> fuck knows, talk to your fae :)
2021-01-04T21:49:59 < karlp> and if you don't have one, Idon't think it's worth your time trying to find an email address..
2021-01-04T21:50:22 < fenugrec> yeah I'm my own fae currently
2021-01-04T21:50:27 < karlp> yeah, indeed :)
2021-01-04T21:52:24 < Steffanx> Last time i had an issue with STM and their new system being broken this #openocd guy had some contacts, but .. not sure if he wants to help with this.
2021-01-04T21:52:36 < fenugrec> meh I filed https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF0/issues/9 , maybe it'll get looked at. Heck, they didn't even update the RM to fix some errata'd doc issues
2021-01-04T21:55:27 < Steffanx> their ticket system does work.. .a little 
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2021-01-04T23:13:16 < qyx> am I just dumb or there is no stlinkv3-mods pad drawing?
2021-01-04T23:13:25 < qyx> I have UM2502
2021-01-04T23:18:23 < Steffanx> So... the video of boston dynamics with the actual sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwjhEKy8hwQ
2021-01-04T23:19:04 < mawk> .
2021-01-04T23:20:21 < mawk> boston moneyburningpartynamics
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2021-01-04T23:46:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: there's an idiom in russian "built from shit and sticks", I guess they clearly had that in mind. I'm disappointed little engineering went into this "project" though.
2021-01-04T23:59:49 < mawk> is it similar enough? https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210104225916564.png and https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210104225944806.png
--- Day changed Tue Jan 05 2021
2021-01-05T00:00:11 < mawk> SCK shouldn't be pulled down when CS is asserted, right
2021-01-05T00:00:22 < mawk> if the device isn't weird
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2021-01-05T00:23:27 < mawk> when CS is deasserted*
2021-01-05T00:28:01 < mawk> is it because of breadboard+bad wires that I see bouncing on the SCK line for instance?
2021-01-05T00:28:34 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210104232830643.png
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2021-01-05T00:37:36 < PaulFertser> mawk: it can also happen if you drive the line hard and there's no damping to supress the ringing.
2021-01-05T00:38:15 < PaulFertser> mawk: you'd see it with a 'scope if that's the case.
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2021-01-05T00:49:25 < mawk> I see
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2021-01-05T01:20:11 < PaulFertser> mawk: I've recently seen bare ft232 not being able to talk SPI to some smart clock generator but my TUMPA which has powerful buffer plus series resistors established the link properly.
2021-01-05T01:21:42 < PaulFertser> And it wasn't on a breadboarfd with long wires or anything like that. Just needed some impedance matching.
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2021-01-05T01:37:37 < Laurenceb> reee freaking latex
2021-01-05T01:37:41 < Laurenceb> and octave
2021-01-05T01:37:42 < Laurenceb> arggg
2021-01-05T01:37:54 < kakium69> hello friend
2021-01-05T01:38:09 < Laurenceb> >octave still doesnt support alpha layers and latex in the same plot when exporting in epsc
2021-01-05T01:38:16 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2021-01-05T01:40:52 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/8ea7nz.pdf
2021-01-05T01:41:49 < Laurenceb> looks ok but it wont do latex text
2021-01-05T01:45:44 < effractur> just use the tex backend?
2021-01-05T01:45:52 < effractur>  -dtex
2021-01-05T01:46:20 < effractur> or better epslatex
2021-01-05T01:46:26 < effractur> that fixed the text 
2021-01-05T01:46:37 < effractur> its just a gnuplot frontend anyway
2021-01-05T01:47:12 < effractur> or the epslatexstandalone if that one does not work
2021-01-05T01:47:20 < Laurenceb> hmm I can probably just export as eps then edit the eps in inkscape
2021-01-05T01:47:28 < Laurenceb> loll png works
2021-01-05T01:47:48 < effractur> or for the ray fancy shit you can use tikz
2021-01-05T01:47:51 < Laurenceb> print('-dpngalpha','-svgconvert','-GraphicsAlphaBits=4',name)
2021-01-05T01:48:25 < Laurenceb> still better than matplotlib
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2021-01-05T02:13:45 < zyp> typed up some design goals and a roadmap: http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/
2021-01-05T02:14:00 < zyp> writing documentation is almost fun
2021-01-05T02:14:22 < zyp> particularly the roadmap, since then I can write about how I want the code to be, not how it is :p
2021-01-05T02:21:53 < qyx> I like your doc writing efforts
2021-01-05T02:25:31 < qyx> did you try markdown with sphinx?
2021-01-05T02:26:02 < qyx> or more generally whats your attitude to md/rest selection
2021-01-05T02:26:42 < zyp> no, I decided going against the grain is not worth it
2021-01-05T02:27:51 < zyp> if not all the directives is available from markdown and I end up having to mix in a bit of rst anyway, I might as well just get used to rst right away
2021-01-05T02:27:54 < qyx> (we say pee againts the wind)
2021-01-05T02:28:08 < zyp> that also works :)
2021-01-05T02:28:55 < qyx> so rst has more "features"?
2021-01-05T02:29:20 < qyx> or it has some features needed by sphinx?
2021-01-05T02:31:31 < zyp> rst has a standard way of issuing directives, e.g. «put the apidoc for this class here»
2021-01-05T02:31:41 < zyp> markdown doesn't really have that
2021-01-05T02:31:48 < qyx> reading https://www.zverovich.net/2016/06/16/rst-vs-markdown.html atm
2021-01-05T02:32:03 < zyp> yeah, I also read that
2021-01-05T02:33:09 < zyp> apparently it's possible to do embed rst directives via markdown code blocks
2021-01-05T02:34:03 < zyp> https://recommonmark.readthedocs.io/en/latest/auto_structify.html#embed-restructuredtext <- like this
2021-01-05T02:35:11 < zyp> but what's the point of writing markdown if you just end up embedding rst anyway, and have to type extra shit to achieve it
2021-01-05T02:45:37 < mawk> wow I configured the rfm01 and it actually returns a consistent status register now
2021-01-05T02:45:44 < mawk> I didn't break it during soldering
2021-01-05T03:31:20 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/nmFrKDJ
2021-01-05T03:31:23 < Laurenceb> sexeh plot
2021-01-05T03:32:17 < Laurenceb> grid lines still too faint
2021-01-05T03:34:02 < Laurenceb> thats for setting design wind loads for stratosolar
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2021-01-05T08:38:30 < Thorn> is a 20ppm xtal ±20ppm or ±10ppm?
2021-01-05T08:40:26 < jpa-> +-20ppm
2021-01-05T08:40:33 < jpa-> like 1% resistor is +-1%
2021-01-05T08:41:26 < jpa-> though depending on how it is specced, over full temperature range it is more likely +-50ppm or +-100ppm
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2021-01-05T09:10:43 < Thorn> so it's not just the Chinese lol, thanks
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2021-01-05T10:57:29 < skz81_> Ho, btw, fwiw, for the ld man page : '-g  Ignored.  Provided for compatibility with other tools.'
2021-01-05T10:57:51 < skz81_> from*
2021-01-05T11:04:06 < mawk> yeah it's very common
2021-01-05T11:04:11 < mawk> to have ignored config options
2021-01-05T11:06:13 < jpa-> hmm, i wonder if it was then only when using gcc for link step that you needed -g for it
2021-01-05T11:06:27 < jpa-> (one should use gcc for link step anyway to avoid multilib mess-ups)
2021-01-05T11:08:20 < mawk> if you don't use gcc for link you have more problems than that; at least on pc
2021-01-05T11:08:31 < mawk> since it won't include all the needed libraries and startup files
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2021-01-05T13:34:46 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-05T13:34:51 < zyp> this is neat:
2021-01-05T13:34:52 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/8MrYrY
2021-01-05T13:35:30 < zyp> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/copy_elision
2021-01-05T13:37:16 < zyp> i.e. if calling a function that returns an object by value, the object is constructed directly on the callers stack rather than requiring a copy or move operation
2021-01-05T13:39:01 < karlp> explain c++ to me? what is f() returning? a struct Foo object? that's a struct, not a class? and has the ... what
2021-01-05T13:39:19 < zyp> struct = class
2021-01-05T13:40:06 < zyp> the only difference between a struct and a class in C++ is whether members are public or private by default, I use struct for quick hacks because it's faster than typing public: and adding another indentation level
2021-01-05T13:40:52 < karlp> so, Foo f(), isn't that meant to return a "Foo" class/struct?
2021-01-05T13:40:57 < zyp> yes
2021-01-05T13:41:07 < zyp> return {}; is equivalent to return Foo();
2021-01-05T13:41:10 < karlp> is {} automagically a "Foo" ?
2021-01-05T13:41:28 < karlp> of course, that's just totally obvious and predicatable and just how c++ is right?
2021-01-05T13:42:21 < karlp> so we're meant to be looking at the listing for g() in asm and seeing that it doesn't seem to do any copying?
2021-01-05T13:42:22 < zyp> since C++14 or so, yes
2021-01-05T13:42:49 < zyp> not looking at the asm at all, interesting part is the output; objects are only constructed and destructed once
2021-01-05T13:42:58 < Steffanx> Is karlp alright? Do you know?
2021-01-05T13:43:44 < zyp> anyway, I like the new return rules, it means you don't have to tell the compiler twice what type you're returning
2021-01-05T13:43:57 < karlp> so, in the old days, if you did "return T()" from the cpp reference page, it used to invoke the constructor twice?
2021-01-05T13:44:04 < PaulFertser> karlp: in certain cases like that the optimisation is required by standard, so you do not have to worry, it's guaranteed.
2021-01-05T13:44:38 < mawk> yes zyp copy elision is cool
2021-01-05T13:44:42 < zyp> either you do: Foo f() { return {}; } and the compiler knows to construct a Foo object
2021-01-05T13:44:59 < karlp> what's the difference between copy and move?
2021-01-05T13:45:04 < zyp> or you do: auto f() { return Foo(); } and the compiler knows you're returning a Foo object
2021-01-05T13:45:24 < zyp> copy makes a copy, move does not
2021-01-05T13:46:33 < karlp> yeah, I don't think I understand c++ at all really.
2021-01-05T13:46:43 < zyp> if you've got an object responsible for holding the single reference to something and destructing it when it's no longer needed, it makes sense to make the object movable but not copyable
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2021-01-05T13:47:01 < zyp> e.g. std::unique_ptr
2021-01-05T13:47:54 < zyp> this is useful for RAII
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2021-01-05T13:48:58 < zyp> a std::shared_ptr is copyable and therefore needs to keep a count of how many references you've got, so the object can be deleted when none remain
2021-01-05T13:49:11 < mawk> when you make a move karlp you are guaranteed to not have two copies of a single object
2021-01-05T13:49:14 < zyp> a std::unique_ptr is simpler because there can only be one
2021-01-05T13:49:15 < mawk> the old object is destroyed
2021-01-05T13:49:36 < mawk> so when the compiler can guarantee that something is moved, eg a pointer, you can be sure you won't have double-free or memory leaks or whatever
2021-01-05T13:49:46 < zyp> not necessarily destroyed, just cleared
2021-01-05T13:49:53 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-05T13:50:09 < zyp> when you move a unique_ptr to another, the old one is turned into a nullptr
2021-01-05T13:50:22 < mawk> const T& operator=(const T&) = delete; T(const T&) = delete;
2021-01-05T13:50:48 < mawk> 12:41 <karlp> is {} automagically a "Foo" ?
2021-01-05T13:50:50 < mawk> 12:41 <karlp> of course, that's just totally obvious and predicatable and just how c++ is right?
2021-01-05T13:50:53 < mawk> you want to use {} whenever possible
2021-01-05T13:51:11 < mawk> there is a problem with using () to instantiate objects, that's why they introduced {}
2021-01-05T13:51:15 < mawk> a parsing issue, specifically
2021-01-05T13:51:22 < zyp> return {}; is super neat, probably my favorite syntax improvment so far
2021-01-05T13:53:11 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/u8tve <- I got rid of the async<void> specialization by only specializing the promise_type instead
2021-01-05T13:54:23 < mawk> having to specialize for void is always annoying
2021-01-05T13:54:39 < zyp> yeah, I wish there were an easier way to do that
2021-01-05T13:55:25 < zyp> I'm happy void foo() { return bar(); } works as long as bar also returns void
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2021-01-05T14:01:11 < zyp> ah, there's a constexpr if now also, neat
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2021-01-05T14:06:29 < mawk> yeah that's pretty cool
2021-01-05T14:06:37 < mawk> it's slowly becoming as capable as D when it comes to compile time sweetness
2021-01-05T14:07:26 < zyp> I guess something like: if constexpr(std::is_void<T>) return; else return val; would solve one piece of the puzzle
2021-01-05T14:07:38 < mawk> yes
2021-01-05T14:07:44 < mawk> but you can use it at the class scope also no?
2021-01-05T14:07:50 < zyp> can I?
2021-01-05T14:07:53 < mawk> then you add the T val; only if not void
2021-01-05T14:07:55 < mawk> I guess
2021-01-05T14:07:57 < mawk> I hope, at least
2021-01-05T14:08:26 < mawk> in D you can
2021-01-05T14:09:49 < karlp> D always looked pretty rad, I always wondered why it never really exploded
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2021-01-05T14:28:56 < zyp> mawk, looks like this might be the cleanest way to solve it: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8fpie
2021-01-05T15:26:56 < skz81_> Hum, follow-up of yesterday.... It appears that when I reflash a binary, i able to reproduce the lack of any behaviour. I'm able to workaround that by running, once for all, 'run' in gdb
2021-01-05T15:27:27 < skz81_> Seems like st-flash left it in a strange 'floating' state. Does it rings a bell ?
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2021-01-05T15:43:36 < jpa-> skz81_: if power-on reset works differently than "run", it is probably due to mistake in either startup PC or SP value (which are in first two words of flash)
2021-01-05T15:44:20 < PaulFertser> Or the ENTRY in .ld script.
2021-01-05T15:44:56 < skz81_> jpa-, I mean, using 'run' ONCE fixes the problem "forever" (until next flash at least)
2021-01-05T15:45:12 < skz81_> PaulFertser, can you elaborate ? I spotted that line in the script indeed
2021-01-05T15:45:57 < PaulFertser> skz81_: that line must point to your reset vector and it's used by gdb to set PC right after "load".
2021-01-05T15:46:23 < zyp> sounds unrelated if it works «forever», if forever includes powercycles and external resets
2021-01-05T15:46:32 < PaulFertser> With default OpenOCD configuration it doesn't matter though because load has a hook that does "reset halt" after flashing is finished.
2021-01-05T15:46:41 < skz81_> zyp, yes good definition
2021-01-05T15:47:21 < zyp> it's more likely you're relying on some reset state that's different after st-flash ran
2021-01-05T15:47:39 < zyp> I assume a power cycle would work just as well as doing run in gdb?
2021-01-05T15:47:45 < zyp> or even a manual reset
2021-01-05T15:47:49 < PaulFertser> In any case st-flash sucks ;)
2021-01-05T15:48:29 < zyp> yes :)
2021-01-05T15:48:49 < zyp> skz81_, if you've got gdb anyway, why don't you just use load in gdb?
2021-01-05T15:49:34 < zyp> I usually define a flash command that reloads the .elf and loads it
2021-01-05T15:49:36 < skz81_> zyp, nope, a power cycle / reset doesn't solve the issue. The only workaround I have so far is to use gdb.
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2021-01-05T15:50:06 < skz81_> gdb can flash the device ? I didn't know about that ! 
2021-01-05T15:50:15 < zyp> I don't see how that can be the case, gdb run shouldn't set any state persisting across a power cycle
2021-01-05T15:50:31 < PaulFertser> skz81_: gdb can flash if you use a gdb server that supports it.
2021-01-05T15:51:01 < zyp> who uses gdb servers that can't?
2021-01-05T15:51:31 < jpa-> skz81_: does disconnecting st-link and powercycling fix it?
2021-01-05T15:51:47 < jpa-> because st-flash sometimes leaves st-link in a state where NRST is pulled low
2021-01-05T15:53:29 < skz81_> jpa-, unsure to understand what your suggesting. I power the board through the STlink USB connector. So, to me "power cycling the board" implies to disconnect STLink...
2021-01-05T15:54:10 < jpa-> ok
2021-01-05T15:54:30 < jpa-> sounds weird in any case
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2021-01-05T15:54:41 < PaulFertser> skz81_: any particular reason you're not using OpenOCD?
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2021-01-05T16:00:52 < skz81_> PaulFertser, not really, I can give it a try, right :) I just followed the path I found on my company wiki pages :p
2021-01-05T16:02:36 < jpa-> code STM32 like it is 2010: with texane stlink and codesourcery gcc
2021-01-05T16:10:50 < mawk> use openocd and change the company pages skz81_ 
2021-01-05T16:11:38 < mawk> openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32XXX.cfg
2021-01-05T16:11:52 < mawk> then you have a telnet server running on 127.0.0.1:4444 and you can issue commands like "program"
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2021-01-05T16:12:57 < mawk> what's return_void() for zyp ?
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2021-01-05T16:23:07 < skz81_> mawk, thanks. I have 2 target files that may suit : target/stm32f4x.cfg and target/stm32f4x_stlink.cfg
2021-01-05T16:23:26 < mawk> the first one
2021-01-05T16:23:30 < mawk> you can read these files, they won't bit you
2021-01-05T16:23:45 < mawk> you would've read "echo "WARNING: target/stm32f4x_stlink.cfg is deprecated, please switch to target/stm32f4x.cfg""
2021-01-05T16:24:01 < mawk> on linux they are in /usr/share/openocd/scripts or /usr/local/share/openocd/scripts
2021-01-05T16:24:14 < skz81_> Just found that out by dumping a diff :] thx
2021-01-05T16:25:40 < skz81_> Hm there is a board/st_nucleo_f4.cfg that refers interface and target
2021-01-05T16:33:00 < mawk> it's the same thing
2021-01-05T16:33:10 < mawk> if you have the nucleo board, use the board file if you want
2021-01-05T16:33:13 < mawk> it's for convenience
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2021-01-05T16:45:58 < skz81_> I guess the 'reset' option of the program command is for 'rebooting' the board after flashing. But what is that 'exit' option ? It kills the server or whatever ?
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2021-01-05T16:53:13 < skz81_> Indeed it works better :] Thanks for the suggestion ! 
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2021-01-05T17:00:06 < PaulFertser> skz81: exit is so that openocd process shuts down after flashing.
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2021-01-05T17:14:01 < skz81> PaulFertser, thx
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2021-01-05T18:36:47 < englishman> when calculating uncertainty do i include quantization error and noise
2021-01-05T18:37:01 < englishman> for noise specifically, for example keithley 6220 gives both accuracy spec and noise spec
2021-01-05T18:37:03 < karlp> depends, do you need to to get under the limits? ;)
2021-01-05T18:37:06 < englishman> yes
2021-01-05T18:38:10 < englishman> comparing DMM7510 and 34470A current scales
2021-01-05T18:38:42 < englishman> keysight doesn't give the resolution
2021-01-05T18:38:54 < jpa-> for noise, you could just average long enough to get rid of it
2021-01-05T18:39:12 < jpa-> and if quantization error is smaller than noise, it'll average out also
2021-01-05T18:39:37 < jpa-> but usually they won't give a linearity spec for less than one quantization step
2021-01-05T18:40:36 < englishman> true but isn't quantization a source of aboslute error
2021-01-05T18:40:56 < jpa-> why?
2021-01-05T18:41:53 < englishman> because you never know if you are have been quantized into a bit below or above, ie. whether your quantized starts, ends, or is in the middle of the actual value
2021-01-05T18:43:51 < jpa-> yeah, but that's only if the noise is smaller than the quantization step
2021-01-05T18:49:29 < englishman> so you're saying, is that quantization error is ignored is accuracy is larger?
2021-01-05T18:49:58 < englishman> doesn't quantization error still apply, as you are quantizing noise?
2021-01-05T18:50:28 < jpa-> i say that quantization error and noise average out, depending on how many samples you average
2021-01-05T18:50:53 < jpa-> as such the noise specs usually say over what bandwidth or at what samplerate they apply
2021-01-05T18:50:57 < englishman> given enough samples
2021-01-05T18:51:18 < englishman> but that is a technique to reduce error and not a characteristic of the instrument
2021-01-05T18:51:56 < jpa-> yes, but when you look at the characteristic noise, you then need to use that and the amount of averaging to calculate the noise in your actual measurement setup
2021-01-05T18:52:23 < englishman> right, so given a single sample i have to include them
2021-01-05T18:52:39 < englishman> so i can ignore them in calibration/verification but not the actual measurement
2021-01-05T18:52:43 < englishman> given proper technique
2021-01-05T18:52:44 < jpa-> yeah, if you don't perform any averaging you would use the specs directly
2021-01-05T18:54:44 < englishman> true that on most of these instruments the quantization error is an order of magnitude less than accuracy, 
2021-01-05T18:56:37 < englishman> looks like 34470A fits the bill then but DMM7510 does not, due to having an extra 1uA scale on the 34470A
2021-01-05T18:57:13 < englishman> 0.1% vs 0.3% accuracy at ~100nA
2021-01-05T19:06:00 < karlp> and here's me, like, "we can butcher this thing and it will probably affect accuracy, but we aren't making scopes here..." :)
2021-01-05T19:07:37 < englishman> we got ISO 17025 cert last year and there is some new shit to do because of that, so..
2021-01-05T19:15:16 < Steffanx> Yay ISO norms.
2021-01-05T19:15:21 < Steffanx> Party time
2021-01-05T19:16:12 < Steffanx> For me ISO 9001 for example just seems like a joke
2021-01-05T19:29:56 < jpa-> Steffanx: what about ISO 3533?
2021-01-05T19:30:49 < Steffanx> Are you compliant jpa- ?
2021-01-05T19:31:06 < jpa-> i don't know, chinamark didn't have that
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2021-01-05T20:47:10 < Steffanx> Im disappointed jpa- 
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2021-01-05T20:52:16 < zyp> better than being disappointing
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2021-01-05T21:14:15 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqbc-uPUNQ
2021-01-05T21:14:34 < jadew> clip at ~ :36
2021-01-05T21:15:51 < fenugrec> tip3055 datasheet: "small-signal gain :  hfe=15kHz". Didn't know Hz was a unit of gain
2021-01-05T21:24:53 < Steffanx> "Years from now this will be a shameful part of herstory." lol.
2021-01-05T21:25:28 < Steffanx> lol jadew, the comments are the best :D
2021-01-05T21:42:00 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah :) twitter is full of puns on this topic
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2021-01-05T22:09:54 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CiDv3/Screenshot_2021-01-05_21-09-31.png
2021-01-05T22:09:59 < qyx> not much space for components tbh
2021-01-05T22:16:48 < englishman> CHF58, cheap
2021-01-05T22:17:24 < englishman> batteries are cylindrical so surely you can put them in between
2021-01-05T22:18:21 < qyx> whats that
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2021-01-05T23:24:06 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210105222336384.png
2021-01-05T23:24:15 < mawk> I'm starting a career in eliquid manufacturing
2021-01-05T23:24:39 < mawk> but they don't want to ship the pure nicotine to me, they say "this product cannot be sent by plane" bla bla
2021-01-05T23:24:44 < mawk> send it by boat then
2021-01-05T23:25:45 < Steffanx> i dont feel sorry for you
2021-01-05T23:26:02 < mawk> why
2021-01-05T23:26:07 < mawk> nicotine is best drug
2021-01-05T23:27:56 < Steffanx> no, there is better drugs
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2021-01-05T23:48:32 < qyx> are you being creative?
--- Day changed Wed Jan 06 2021
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2021-01-06T00:24:14 < zyp> http://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/async/async_functions.html <- how's this page?
2021-01-06T00:24:24 < zyp> the API part is pulled from doxygen, the rest is .rst
2021-01-06T00:25:11 < qyx> do you have to explicitly list members?
2021-01-06T00:25:23 < qyx> also, does the code block have to be indented?
2021-01-06T00:26:25 < zyp> no, in this case I listed the members because I only wanted the user facing ones
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2021-01-06T04:17:19 < fenugrec> what should I add to my lcsc order
2021-01-06T04:19:49 < englishman> are they selling parts of jack ma
2021-01-06T04:20:37 < fenugrec> non-stocked
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2021-01-06T05:13:17 < aandrew> qyx: what’s that board?
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2021-01-06T06:18:55 < Laurenceb> wew octave fixed their shit
2021-01-06T06:19:25 < Laurenceb> I can have latex and alpha layers on the same plot exported as vector 
2021-01-06T06:19:38 < Laurenceb> even less reason to use methlab
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2021-01-06T07:57:52 < Jak_o_Shadows> Can you save figures in octave like you can Matlab?
2021-01-06T07:58:00 < Jak_o_Shadows> That's something I kinda miss with Python & Matplotlib
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2021-01-06T09:45:00 < mawk> you can save figures with mpl Jak_o_Shadows 
2021-01-06T09:45:28 < Jak_o_Shadows> not as an editable thing
2021-01-06T09:45:45 < Jak_o_Shadows> Unless you pickle it or something, which isn't stable enough for me
2021-01-06T10:22:19 < skz81> <Steffanx> no, there is better drugs << agreed :)
2021-01-06T10:22:25 < mawk> why not stable enough Jak_o_Shadows ?
2021-01-06T10:22:37 < mawk> pickle version don't change everyday
2021-01-06T10:22:45 < mawk> and even then, the default version is never the latest one
2021-01-06T10:22:53 < mawk> when you pickle an object in python 3.9 it will open in python 3.3
2021-01-06T10:23:31 < mawk> like what skz81 ?
2021-01-06T10:25:39 < skz81> mawk, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiHKAL good reading :)
2021-01-06T10:26:37 < skz81> the best ones being the ones I can grow :p
2021-01-06T10:26:46 < skz81> (i'm not into chem)
2021-01-06T10:27:26 < mawk> the world is chemical skz81 
2021-01-06T10:27:40 < mawk> nature is unpredictable
2021-01-06T10:27:45 < mawk> my milligram scale isn't
2021-01-06T10:28:38 < skz81> mawk, ok, i'm into chem lab experiments and mixtures. Rather let the mushrooms build that 4-PO-DMT for instance
2021-01-06T10:29:15 < skz81> i'm NOT* into
2021-01-06T10:31:39 < mawk> if you genetically engineer your mushroom to grow my diacetylmorphine then fine
2021-01-06T10:32:03 < mawk> give me a few spores
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2021-01-06T10:36:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> mawk, if I'm saving a Figure, I want to be able to open it for practically forever
2021-01-06T10:37:09 < mawk> yes so what?
2021-01-06T10:37:15 < mawk> you can still open pickle version 1
2021-01-06T10:37:18 < Jak_o_Shadows> It's part of how I would be able to claim reproducibility
2021-01-06T10:39:45 < skz81> mawk, I heard some day that papaverum would be a better specie to start with for that
2021-01-06T10:42:20 < skz81> BTW i started to collect all the coffee I dring at home while working remotly. I'll try to recycle it to grow oyster mushrooms. Heard about a guy that collect the used coffee in Paris coffe shops (bofere the lockdown).
2021-01-06T10:43:46 < skz81> collected*, then. He was selling his harvest to "high standing" restaurants...
2021-01-06T10:44:09 < mawk> papaver doesn't grow the diacetylated version
2021-01-06T10:56:26 < qyx> aandrew: an eurocard-style card for subrack (3xAA power supply)
2021-01-06T10:58:42 < qyx> finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/yT2W8/Screenshot_2021-01-06_09-58-12.png
2021-01-06T10:58:58 < qyx> I was trying to avoid 4L, idk if optimal
2021-01-06T10:59:19 < qyx> theres no xtal to fail at > 1A this time :>
2021-01-06T10:59:56 < mawk> does it taste like oyster skz81 ?
2021-01-06T11:01:07 < zyp> qyx, with jlcpcb doing 4L for $5, I don't really see why you would avoid it
2021-01-06T11:01:51 < qyx> don't try to..
2021-01-06T11:01:55 < qyx> I am not going to rework it
2021-01-06T11:02:07 < qyx> MEH
2021-01-06T11:02:41 < mawk> lol
2021-01-06T11:03:22 < qyx> zyp: fuk you, adding inner gnd & vbat planes
2021-01-06T11:03:27 < skz81> Nope. I don't know why it share the same name in engrish btw. 
2021-01-06T11:03:33 < skz81> mawk, 
2021-01-06T11:04:25 < mawk> add a 6th layer with written "fuk you zyp" in copper qyx 
2021-01-06T11:06:21 < skz81> Ha found out, that because of the shape
2021-01-06T11:06:29 < skz81> 's*
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2021-01-06T12:07:54  * karlp regrests his usb hub being slightly bigger than the 100x100 now,
2021-01-06T12:08:00 < karlp> need to find a new case :)
2021-01-06T12:08:46 < zyp> hah
2021-01-06T12:18:31 < qyx> still doing the hub thing?
2021-01-06T12:19:14 < qyx> plenty of space for power now https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GIVai/Screenshot_2021-01-06_11-18-54.png
2021-01-06T12:19:53 < zyp> :)
2021-01-06T12:20:42 < qyx> it would be even better if I routed GND to the boost separately from the signal ground
2021-01-06T12:24:34 < zyp> would it?
2021-01-06T12:25:18 < zyp> AFAIK split grounds are easy to fuck up and make everything worse than what a single contiguous ground plane would be
2021-01-06T12:25:53 < qyx> hm, idk, if 2A flows through the ground planes, it may introduce some mV errors in ADC readings
2021-01-06T12:26:00 < qyx> but whatever
2021-01-06T12:27:14 < jpa-> they are easy to fuck up, but not that hard to do correcly either
2021-01-06T12:28:16 < jpa-> a good idea is to have a common power plane, and then just wires for whatever you want to keep separate - that way if you mess things up, those ground wires have reference plane for return currents anyway, even though it will be a more convoluted path
2021-01-06T12:28:26 < jpa-> *common ground plane
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2021-01-06T13:26:56 < karlp> qyx: well, got annoyed with it again, last I sat down with it, the hub enumerated, and the port power switches worked, but the usb downstream ports didn't, at least on the first two pports I sutffed parts for.  Still kinda think it's an assembly problem, not a design problem, but then it's "assemble another one" and it's just a bit frustrating
2021-01-06T13:27:11 < karlp> so it's sat on a desk at the office for a month or so since I last looked at it :)
2021-01-06T13:27:52 < karlp> but I designed it for a cheap case, and that was jsut over 100mm in one dimension, and earlier, the 4l pricing didn't have this big discount for getting under 100mm
2021-01-06T13:29:18 < qyx> sometimes it happens to me that I have to rework QFNs again to solve such issues
2021-01-06T13:29:34 < qyx> idk whats the cause, maybe a bad day or what
2021-01-06T13:29:56 < qyx> sometimes hot air doesn't want to cooperate
2021-01-06T13:30:45 < PaulFertser> qyx: even when you look sideways and each pad has visible soldering bridge to the IC?
2021-01-06T13:31:56 < qyx> sometimes it is hard to do so
2021-01-06T13:32:01 < qyx> but yes, normally I check that
2021-01-06T13:33:00 < PaulFertser> And despite looking good it might still not work?
2021-01-06T13:33:01 < qyx> usually the problem is if I have a big 1210 cap next to the switcher and I cannot hotair and check the thing properly
2021-01-06T13:33:23 < qyx> I solder QFNs with hotair and then drag solder the edges
2021-01-06T13:34:02 < qyx> so i tend to solder chips first
2021-01-06T13:35:20 < qyx> but on more complex prototypes I solder SMPSs first, check if they work, then solder the rest of expensive devices
2021-01-06T13:36:12 < qyx> and thats wheres the problem, passives are already soldered, power supplies too and there is not enough space to drag solder bigger QFNs
2021-01-06T13:36:40 < PaulFertser> Talking about soldering, can someone give me an advice how to deal with the solder sticking to the upper parts of the TQFP leads when I'm trying to drag solder? Using flux gel and regular pb solder, trying to keep the iron tip close to the pads and far from the leads and yet they start soaking solder and get bridged :/
2021-01-06T13:37:01 < qyx> use more flux
2021-01-06T13:37:09 < effractur> cleaning the PCB beforhand with alchol?
2021-01-06T13:37:54 < PaulFertser> Assuming a clean pcb. So just more flux should help? OK, I'll try that the next time I'm doing that, thanks.
2021-01-06T13:38:45 < PaulFertser> BTW, does anyone here use gloves to not contaminate the PCB during the hand assembly?
2021-01-06T13:39:20 < zyp> never though of contamination as an issue
2021-01-06T13:39:23 < zyp> thought
2021-01-06T13:41:57 < zyp> hmm, I'm revisiting my old ISR template stuff to see if there's a smarter way I could do it, 
2021-01-06T13:42:34 < PaulFertser> Do jlcpcb boards straight from their packaging need alcohol cleaning?
2021-01-06T13:50:04 < qyx> I never did that
2021-01-06T13:50:11 < qyx> I clean them after soldering in IPA
2021-01-06T13:50:51 < qyx> kicad pros, how to make a meta-footprint for aligning of a 3D front-panel?
2021-01-06T13:51:29 < qyx> I tried making one with dwgs.user or fab layers but then I am unable to even select that thing after placing on a pcb
2021-01-06T13:52:48 < qyx> ok using silkscreen layer allows me to actually select and move the thing
2021-01-06T13:56:43 < karlp> heh, pdf has a create date of "Wed 31 Dec 1969 11:59:59 PM GMT"
2021-01-06T13:57:12 < zyp> :)
2021-01-06T13:57:41 < karlp> qyx: I think it's a problem with my pastte/stencil techniques, and the footprint doens't have long enough pads for dragging alonge the sides.
2021-01-06T13:57:53 < karlp> no visible shorting, but ... just no usb on the downstream.
2021-01-06T13:58:28 < karlp> busy with other things, and not in the office.
2021-01-06T13:58:41 < karlp> not like locm3 usb bugs and prs are going anywhere...
2021-01-06T13:59:16 < zyp> haha
2021-01-06T14:01:43 < mawk> what do you call drag soldering PaulFertser ?
2021-01-06T14:01:54 < qyx> open yt and check
2021-01-06T14:03:06 < mawk> when someone like this is soldering? https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210106130257143.png
2021-01-06T14:03:09 < jpa-> PaulFertser: i've found drag soldering 0.5mm TQFP quite annoying, so nowadays i just solder a couple of pins at a time and drag away from the pins; if i get shorts, i add flux, heat up and drag with tweezer point between the pins to make a gap in the solder bridge
2021-01-06T14:03:18 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyele3CIs-U
2021-01-06T14:05:02 < qyx> hm, maybe I should buy a better tip for my weller
2021-01-06T14:05:44 < mawk> ah
2021-01-06T14:06:47 < mawk> it's already what I do I guess
2021-01-06T14:06:51 < mawk> or maybe not
2021-01-06T14:06:58 < mawk> I make a big ball and roll it around
2021-01-06T14:08:15 < mawk> I want the same cotton though
2021-01-06T14:10:18 < Steffanx> You make lines... not balls
2021-01-06T14:10:40 < mawk> line?
2021-01-06T14:10:50 < mawk> ah
2021-01-06T14:10:52 < mawk> yes
2021-01-06T14:10:56 < mawk> it's time for the line
2021-01-06T14:11:03 < mawk> plural
2021-01-06T14:12:42 < mawk> englishman: how did you identify which semtech datasheet to read based on the rfm component??¿¿
2021-01-06T14:13:43 < mawk> the ukrainian space agency chinese datasheet I found doesn't mention how to use the chip, just tells about registers; I can piece it together using the example code provided but it doesn't show all features
2021-01-06T14:15:37 < mawk> ah I found a better datasheet on a czech website this time
2021-01-06T14:15:39 < mawk> https://github.com/MLAB-project/Modules/blob/master/RF/RFM01SMD01A/doc/pdf/RF01.pdf
2021-01-06T14:16:16 < englishman> mawk: good luck with that they never match 100% as hoperf changes some shit
2021-01-06T14:16:38 < mawk> ah perfect
2021-01-06T14:16:45 < englishman> I doubt it is custom silicon but they certainly have some custom settings
2021-01-06T14:16:56 < englishman> idk anything by heart I messed with those years ago
2021-01-06T14:17:15 < englishman> nowadays lorawan ftw
2021-01-06T14:17:35 < mawk> why not nbiot
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2021-01-06T14:19:45 < mawk> nobody seems to use that
2021-01-06T14:19:55 < PaulFertser> mawk: (soldering in drag) lol. Well, the software developers have their programming socks, so EEs should have something useful as well.
2021-01-06T14:20:22 < mawk> I know it since my company was the first company in NL to register as nb-iot client on the vodafone network
2021-01-06T14:20:30 < mawk> and we didn't do it the day it was available
2021-01-06T14:20:32 < Steffanx> As real frog you should commit yourself to sigfox
2021-01-06T14:20:37 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-06T14:20:40 < mawk> that's what I told them
2021-01-06T14:20:43 < mawk> but it was already too late
2021-01-06T14:20:47 < mawk> and anyway we need more than 12 bytes
2021-01-06T14:21:04 < mawk> sigfox is really really low power and bitrate, nbiot has mtu of 512 bytes
2021-01-06T14:21:07 < mawk> and no daily limitation
2021-01-06T14:21:15 < karlp> fuck yea, my phone has finally arrived from .cz
2021-01-06T14:21:26 < mawk> and the riscv board with it karlp ?
2021-01-06T14:21:29 < qyx> mawk: except 250 KB monthly
2021-01-06T14:21:36 < englishman> what phone?
2021-01-06T14:21:37 < qyx> or 0.5 MB or 1MB or so
2021-01-06T14:21:38 < mawk> lol PaulFertser it's a bit more visible than socks
2021-01-06T14:21:42 < Steffanx> But the modules are fairly expensive mawk
2021-01-06T14:21:47 < mawk> with all carriers qyx ?
2021-01-06T14:21:57 < qyx> with the only one providing nb-iot in the EU
2021-01-06T14:21:58 < Steffanx> Unless you go shitty documented simcom
2021-01-06T14:22:09 < karlp> mawk: probably, one package shipped from .cz oct 31, one on nov 27, both have arrived in .is today.
2021-01-06T14:22:10 < mawk> there are at least two in netherlands
2021-01-06T14:22:14 < mawk> t-mobile and vodafone
2021-01-06T14:22:18 < zyp> what riscv board?
2021-01-06T14:22:27 < zyp> gd32v or something more interesting?
2021-01-06T14:22:28 < qyx> interesting, I know of DT only
2021-01-06T14:22:29 < karlp> longan nano, the gd32b one
2021-01-06T14:22:34 < Steffanx> I recall dutchland has country wide lora as well 
2021-01-06T14:22:36 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I do not even manage 0.8 lqfp of stm32
2021-01-06T14:22:37 < mawk> and there are subcarriers/MVNO like miotiq that sublicenses the vodafone network in NL too
2021-01-06T14:22:48 < zyp> karlp, ah, right
2021-01-06T14:23:03 < qyx> I tried 1nce.net to do nb-iot and lte-m
2021-01-06T14:23:10 < qyx> but then I found out it is supported nearly nowhere
2021-01-06T14:23:27 < mawk> support is rolling out in many countries currently
2021-01-06T14:23:31 < PaulFertser> mawk: you're supposed to wear those socks with a skirt or short shorts so they're quite visible too
2021-01-06T14:23:34 < qyx> we have country wide lorawan though, so no point in paying deutshe telekom
2021-01-06T14:23:37 < mawk> belgium, austria, greece, denmark, probably a bunch others
2021-01-06T14:23:41 < qyx> *deutsche
2021-01-06T14:23:45 < zyp> I got happy with the documentation page I was hammering out, so now I've started hammering on laks' build system instead
2021-01-06T14:23:55 < mawk> these are the ones we tried to ship sensors to to try the connectivity
2021-01-06T14:24:27 < mawk> women would probably leave me if I tried PaulFertser 
2021-01-06T14:24:48 < qyx> mawk: I am waiting for lte-m, looks more reasonable
2021-01-06T14:25:02 < PaulFertser> mawk: not tolerant/pc enough?
2021-01-06T14:25:03 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-06T14:25:15 < mawk> lol PaulFertser not really no
2021-01-06T14:25:28 < mawk> at least my previous french gf, she's like cracki but female
2021-01-06T14:25:45 < qyx> :D
2021-01-06T14:25:58 < mawk> qyx: we can't switch anymore, we have a million € contract with vodafone with obligation to buy sims and use them and so on
2021-01-06T14:26:05 < mawk> and big penalties to breach the contract
2021-01-06T14:26:13 < karlp> looks like I'll get my phone, bt headphones, bt usb adapter for work, bike light, a bt audio thing to connect the record player up, another orange pi for hacking on production shit for work, a webcam so I don't need to open my laptop, all at the same time, last day of christmas ane verything
2021-01-06T14:26:18 < mawk> because they had to build infrastructure for us or something, being the very first client
2021-01-06T14:26:47 < qyx> you just selected the wrong technology
2021-01-06T14:26:55 < zyp> karlp, what's the story? major shipping hiccup?
2021-01-06T14:27:02 < mawk> I received a pi 4 yesterday, but then I discovered the widevine drm (that netflix uses) doesn't support arm64
2021-01-06T14:27:05 < mawk> so I can't watch netflix on it
2021-01-06T14:27:17 < mawk> maybe if I make it use the 32 bit version it will work
2021-01-06T14:28:43 < zyp> https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-netflix/ claims its possible
2021-01-06T14:28:59 < mawk> hm
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2021-01-06T14:29:02 < zyp> maybe it's just running a full 32-bit image?
2021-01-06T14:29:03 < mawk> they say pi 4 indeed
2021-01-06T14:29:06 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-06T14:29:18 < mawk> but it's using kodi as well, probly some warez plugin business
2021-01-06T14:29:55 < mawk> but I see it's extracting widevine from a chrome os image, that's what I did
2021-01-06T14:29:57 < mawk> and it's 32 bits
2021-01-06T14:30:07 < mawk> but I can't get chromium to load it
2021-01-06T14:30:42 < mawk> I'll try with 32 bits chromium, but then I cannot use the full 8 GiB of ram I guess, no idea how arm32 paging is done but on x86 it's like this
2021-01-06T14:30:48 < mawk> actually I'm not even sure I can run arm32 on arm64
2021-01-06T14:31:04 < zyp> pretty sure that's possible
2021-01-06T14:31:15 < mawk> I mean as multiarch, with a arm64 system host
2021-01-06T14:31:20 < mawk> probably possible yeah
2021-01-06T14:36:26 < mawk> in that list https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices I looked at aarch64 chromebook devices, then I downloaded the recovery image and stole the widevine plugin from it
2021-01-06T14:36:40 < mawk> so I felt like a great hacker until the point I tried it and it didn't work
2021-01-06T14:38:30 < zyp> hmm, wonder why I haven't thought about this before: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hBpYe
2021-01-06T14:43:41 < Steffanx> lol this code. Client writes buggy code, so they were like: let's use the watchdog, but ... shit the eeprom write transaction takes to long. So just disable the watchdog when it's writing to eeprom. -_-
2021-01-06T14:44:02 < Steffanx> Luckily for them the mcu this code is ported to cannot have the watchdog disabled, once its enabled.
2021-01-06T14:44:25 < zyp> common thing :)
2021-01-06T14:44:51 < zyp> IIRC WWDG can be disabled but not IWDG
2021-01-06T14:47:54 < Steffanx> oh this is some old mcu, not stm32 :P
2021-01-06T14:48:56 < mawk> what kind of script is this zyp 
2021-01-06T14:49:04 < Steffanx> Porting ARM7TDMI codes to another ARM7TDMI, because some very important libs they used only come precompiled.
2021-01-06T14:49:13 < zyp> mawk, SConstruct for laks-based projects
2021-01-06T14:49:43 < zyp> mawk, see e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/arcin/tree/SConstruct for how it's used in practice
2021-01-06T14:51:54 < zyp> Steffanx, some lpc2100 shit or something?
2021-01-06T14:52:04 < Steffanx> lpc24xx
2021-01-06T14:52:14 < zyp> fun
2021-01-06T14:52:54 < Steffanx> from some old oki/lapis mcu. That one wasnt so bad actually. All kinds of fancy features i do like.
2021-01-06T14:54:15 < zyp> so the library is compiled for arm mode and not thumb?
2021-01-06T14:54:25 < Steffanx> yeah
2021-01-06T14:54:28 < zyp> aww
2021-01-06T14:54:39 < zyp> wonder if it'd work on cortex-m otherwise
2021-01-06T14:54:41 < Steffanx> Also with some very old compiler, so linking with a recent compiler doesnt work.
2021-01-06T14:55:23 < zyp> also wonder whether it'd be possible to disassemble the code and reassemble it as thumb2
2021-01-06T14:56:15 < karlp> zyp: presumably. I emailed the cz warehouse, tehy're like, "we've asked cz post, no ideas sorry, wait and see, after three months you get insurnace back" and just no updates, then today: https://track.tiptrans.com/RR950991679CZ
2021-01-06T14:56:24 < Steffanx> heh idk. Didnt look into that. It was easier/faster to just go for another arm7tdmi core
2021-01-06T14:58:30 < karlp> ips lpc2x the newest arm7tdmi still around?
2021-01-06T14:58:38 < karlp> that mnew microchip part is arm9
2021-01-06T15:02:28 < zyp> could always have grabbed a stm32mp1 or something then :p
2021-01-06T15:02:29 < Steffanx> probably one of the newest. maybe the only one that isnt nrnd'd
2021-01-06T15:02:34 < zyp> or a cheaper a5 part or whatever
2021-01-06T15:03:59 < Steffanx> And it runs lunix, what else you want?
2021-01-06T15:04:56 < zyp> just arm mode, and I'm not sure you save anything going with cortex-r over cortex-a
2021-01-06T15:05:40 < zyp> actually, ti rm4 is available in qfp100, so yeah
2021-01-06T15:06:24 < zyp> not sure what the benefit over lpc2x is at that point thouhg
2021-01-06T15:09:27 < Steffanx> i lied btw, it uses both. And thumb and arm mode. Hooked together using thumb-interwork
2021-01-06T15:09:41 < zyp> yeah, that's not a problem
2021-01-06T15:20:03 < Steffanx> ARM7TMDI arm/thumb code runs on cortex-R and/or A out of to box?
2021-01-06T15:23:56 < Steffanx> oh, arm stuff is mostly backwards compatible.
2021-01-06T15:24:54 < zyp> that was my impression, yes
2021-01-06T15:25:46 < Steffanx> I didnt really look into cortex-r or a, mainly because i didnt know. aand because this lpc24xx is still active (nxp even release "new" one pretty recently)
2021-01-06T15:27:18 < Steffanx> *released a "new" one
2021-01-06T15:32:29 < Steffanx> And im not sure about the compiler either. Its one of those "fast fast we need it now projects" and couldnt be bothered more to look into compiler support. Especially since the libaries are old and i didnt know if and how to fix the abi mismatches.
2021-01-06T15:35:50 < Steffanx> maybe i will look into it once in my free time, and not in work time :)
2021-01-06T15:38:06 < Steffanx> Thats the shitty thing about work. Shit has to be finished at the end of the month. No issue with hobby-bobby work
2021-01-06T15:41:54 < PaulFertser> qyx: it looks nice on the video, thanks, will try doing it closer to that the next time (so I should use less solder, keep the tip closer to the leads and straight to the board, and then soak up the excess from the last few pins that way).
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2021-01-06T15:50:55 < qyx> I usually fail during the last phase
2021-01-06T15:52:02 < Steffanx> Nooo, believe in yourself qyx . YOU CAN DO IT
2021-01-06T15:55:41 < karlp> heh, TIL about amazon aws outposts
2021-01-06T15:56:08 < aandrew> outposts?
2021-01-06T15:56:17 < karlp> https://eu-west-1.console.aws.amazon.com/outposts/home?region=eu-west-1#Home
2021-01-06T15:56:27 < karlp> 8k/month, amazon will deliver some compute to your site so you can run things locally
2021-01-06T15:56:47 < Steffanx> url needs login.
2021-01-06T15:57:36 < karlp> https://aws.amazon.com/outposts/
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2021-01-06T16:05:34 < mawk> lol
2021-01-06T16:05:39 < mawk> that's like not-cloud
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2021-01-06T16:07:05 < mawk> I don't really see the point of it, it's just like you pay for software support
2021-01-06T16:07:12 < mawk> it's not cloud anymore
2021-01-06T16:09:52 < Steffanx> I could make a comment about substance use again, but that is getting old :P
2021-01-06T16:11:01 < Ultrasauce> it's for high bandwidth use cases and conforming to regulatory requirements
2021-01-06T16:11:03 < Ultrasauce> also whats with the x in the topic
2021-01-06T16:12:04 < Steffanx> There is nothing with it.
2021-01-06T16:12:48 < Steffanx> It means that appending an x has no meaning.
2021-01-06T16:13:42 < karlp> nice, us company with datasheet measurements entirely in mm, with a footnote, "(To convert to inches divide by 25.4.)"
2021-01-06T16:19:34 < mawk> yeah Ultrasauce , so something a regular server provides
2021-01-06T16:19:43 < mawk> and that's what it is, a regular server with aws stack on it
2021-01-06T16:20:46 < Ultrasauce> which is a lot more than just a server
2021-01-06T16:21:35 < Ultrasauce> im not saying i would use this but it definitely would be the right solution in particular situations
2021-01-06T16:22:00 < Ultrasauce> like an existing product stack tightly coupled to amazon's services (which is what they are designed to elicit)
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2021-01-06T16:29:29 < aandrew> karlp: interesting, I'd never heard of that before. it's like pulling down a bit of cloud I guess
2021-01-06T16:29:34 < aandrew> as always, everything is coming full circle
2021-01-06T16:32:49 < englishman> the Google Search Appliance was introduced in 2002
2021-01-06T16:34:27 < aandrew> I remember that
2021-01-06T16:34:37 < aandrew> that was more for adding google search to your intranet though
2021-01-06T16:34:55 < aandrew> not specifically about having a container filled with compute power delivered 
2021-01-06T16:36:53 < englishman> when a tech company gets successful enough, they will eventually produce a box
2021-01-06T16:43:16 < karlp> when box producing companies get successfull, they produce clouds :)
2021-01-06T16:44:15 < karlp> man, fuckk US companies.  $30 in 50s, before customization.  italy will do me ~10€, fully customized.
2021-01-06T16:46:38 < zyp> which?
2021-01-06T16:50:17 < karlp> https://www.altechcorp.com/dinenclosures/ vs italtronic
2021-01-06T16:51:56 < karlp> fucking, this other datasheet is _only_ in inches, fucking trash
2021-01-06T16:54:10 < englishman> trump should switch to the metric system the day before inauguration. as a final troll
2021-01-06T16:54:23 < karlp> be rememebered as the best president ever :)
2021-01-06T17:00:27 < jpa-> he'd get the nobel peace price for that
2021-01-06T17:00:43 < jpa-> *prize
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2021-01-06T17:05:20 < Steffanx> He'll get a piece.
2021-01-06T17:16:09 < mawk> I have 4k 60Hz output on my pi4 now
2021-01-06T17:16:11 < mawk> pretty cool
2021-01-06T17:16:13 < mawk> but still no netflix
2021-01-06T17:16:15 < mawk> fuck drm
2021-01-06T17:17:25 < Steffanx> Your boss will be happy with this achievement
2021-01-06T17:17:32 < Ultrasauce> no widevine for aarch64?
2021-01-06T17:18:06 < mawk> I'm not very sure Ultrasauce 
2021-01-06T17:18:16 < mawk> I stole libwidevinecdm.so from aarch64 chromeos build
2021-01-06T17:18:26 < mawk> and put it in the chromium /usr/lib, and nothing happens
2021-01-06T17:18:35 < mawk> the verbose chromium logs still say "cannot load widevine plugin"
2021-01-06T17:19:57 < Ultrasauce> afaik thats not where chromium looks for plugins
2021-01-06T17:20:44 < Ultrasauce> theres manifests and stuff
2021-01-06T17:21:57 < mawk> hmm I have the 32 bit version of raspbian
2021-01-06T17:22:06 < mawk> but that's the .so I have, normally
2021-01-06T17:22:42 < mawk> /usr/lib/chromium-browser/libwidevinecdm.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, BuildID[sha1]=0518f32c249a91d353237a2712aa9264ec8a8f6a, stripped
2021-01-06T17:22:47 < mawk> Linux raspberrypi 5.4.79-v7l+ #1373 SMP Mon Nov 23 13:27:40 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux
2021-01-06T17:23:35 < mawk> well online guides said to drop it there
2021-01-06T17:24:44 < mawk> it's extracted from /opt/google/chrome/libwidevinecdm.so in the chromeos image anyway
2021-01-06T17:26:43 < mawk> both arm and arm64 are the same hash anyway
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2021-01-06T17:35:06 < mawk> I tried to open libwidevinecdm.so, call a few functions from it, it works fine
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2021-01-06T17:46:10 < mawk> so chromium should be able to call it fine as well
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2021-01-06T19:38:56 < karlp> nice, qcad 3.25.1 community open dialog doenst open anything, 3.25.2 pro trial doesn't show anything but a black screen.  nice.
2021-01-06T19:43:12 < zyp> very pro
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2021-01-06T19:49:47 < karlp> very.
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2021-01-06T20:01:49 < mawk> don't tell dongs 
2021-01-06T20:04:16 < mawk> 4k screen is cool but really too big
2021-01-06T20:04:29 < mawk> maybe I can increase font size and all that
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2021-01-06T20:16:46 < Steffanx> Tv or... what mawk 
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2021-01-06T20:17:19 < mawk> yes tv
2021-01-06T20:18:04 < antto> i had a 10k Sony trinitron TV
2021-01-06T20:18:11 < antto> 10kilograms
2021-01-06T20:18:12 < mawk> liar
2021-01-06T20:18:13 < antto> or more
2021-01-06T20:18:14 < mawk> yes
2021-01-06T20:18:16 -!- aidenhjj [~aidenhjj@78.40.148.182] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-06T20:18:18 < mawk> mega liar
2021-01-06T20:18:29 < Steffanx> Lol you
2021-01-06T20:19:04 < antto> i barely got in/out the door with it, even tho i'm slim as f*ck
2021-01-06T20:19:31 < mawk> https://www.mlab.cz/module/RFM01SMD01A/
2021-01-06T20:19:36 < mawk> I found the datasheets of RFM01
2021-01-06T20:19:38 < mawk> I'm happy
2021-01-06T20:19:55 < antto> now read it
2021-01-06T20:20:02 < antto> still happy?
2021-01-06T20:20:04 < mawk> no I want to enjoy my happiness a bit more
2021-01-06T20:20:58 < antto> i'll give you a recipe for happyness, the internet is full of datasheets, you can easily find many
2021-01-06T20:21:11 < mawk> only datasheet for obscure components I have make me happy
2021-01-06T20:21:36 < antto> oh, u even have a particular fetish
2021-01-06T20:21:40 < antto> how naughty
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2021-01-06T22:26:48 < qyx> kicad pros, how would I update footprint in newpcb when I change it in eeschema?
2021-01-06T22:31:28 < antto> u press F8
2021-01-06T22:32:22 < antto> and u know this is probably the worst channel to ask about kicad ;P~
2021-01-06T22:39:12  * antto presses F8 on qyx's keyboard
2021-01-06T22:41:28 < qyx> F8 doesnt work for this
2021-01-06T22:41:38 < antto> bruh
2021-01-06T22:41:56 < antto> maybe you explained the problem incorrectly
2021-01-06T22:42:34 < antto> did you mean "i editted a footprint in the library, but i still got the old version on the board"
2021-01-06T22:43:09 < antto> or you're running kicad4 which didn't have F8
2021-01-06T22:43:09 < qyx> no
2021-01-06T22:43:32 < qyx> 5.1.8, LED has a "THT 2mm above PCB" footprint
2021-01-06T22:43:53 < qyx> I change it using "e", change footprint by browser, select "6mm above PCB"
2021-01-06T22:43:59 < qyx> click ok
2021-01-06T22:44:07 < qyx> press F8, it updates, 0 changes
2021-01-06T22:44:21 < qyx> the 2mm footprint remains associated with the LED in pcbnew
2021-01-06T22:44:36 < antto> have you done something naughty like locking the footprint instance on the board?
2021-01-06T22:44:42 < qyx> nothing
2021-01-06T22:44:46 < qyx> it worked in 5.1.4
2021-01-06T22:44:47 < qyx> meh
2021-01-06T22:44:59 < antto> can i haz a screenshot?
2021-01-06T22:46:34 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vP8Gt/Screenshot_2021-01-06_21-46-10.png
2021-01-06T22:47:35 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5n4R2/Screenshot_2021-01-06_21-47-21.png
2021-01-06T22:48:06 < antto> see those checkboxes up there in the dialog(ue) ?
2021-01-06T22:48:12 < qyx> I tried all
2021-01-06T22:48:22 < qyx> fuk
2021-01-06T22:48:23 < antto> try the top one
2021-01-06T22:48:32 < qyx> I tried all except that one
2021-01-06T22:48:36 < antto> aww
2021-01-06T22:48:45 < qyx> such blindness
2021-01-06T22:48:53 < antto> it is always the last one.. murphy law
2021-01-06T22:49:08 < antto> yet kicad UI design put it first
2021-01-06T22:50:07 < antto> i got this audio codec to vomit periodic noise btw
2021-01-06T22:50:12 < karlp> kicad 5.9 era is so much better
2021-01-06T22:50:25 < antto> that's in the future
2021-01-06T22:50:31 < karlp> getting rid of this stupid manual netlist syncing back and forth buyllshit
2021-01-06T22:50:32 < antto> i mean, 6
2021-01-06T22:50:36 < karlp> nah, I+ve been using it for over a eyar now
2021-01-06T22:50:43 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-06T22:50:45 < antto> ur a cheat0r
2021-01-06T22:50:45 < karlp> it's much closer now than it was before
2021-01-06T22:51:01 < zyp> I've started dicking up some platform description stuff: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/EHE5p
2021-01-06T22:51:03 < qyx> isnt the library incompatible?
2021-01-06T22:51:21 < zyp> source data for that lookup: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PDhFf
2021-01-06T22:51:46 < karlp> you should use devices.data from libopencm3 as a submodule ;)
2021-01-06T22:52:15 < zyp> haha, let me have a look to see how useful it might be
2021-01-06T22:52:17 < karlp> or even just copy the file once or twice.
2021-01-06T22:52:43 < karlp> it's "lgpl" but it's not used or linked at any stage after building, so... no problem IMO
2021-01-06T22:53:12 < karlp> you'll hate it, because it's key/value in some stupid heirarchary that someone invented for originally parsing with awk and creating shell vars.
2021-01-06T22:53:16 < karlp> but....
2021-01-06T22:53:20 < antto> unless some sneaky lawyer says "hold on right there mr"
2021-01-06T22:53:30 < karlp> I'm just about to merge a patch that is explicitly done so that it can be used with scons more easily.
2021-01-06T22:53:31 < zyp> what directory is it in?
2021-01-06T22:53:33 < karlp> antto: good luck
2021-01-06T22:53:47 < karlp> ld/devices.data
2021-01-06T22:53:58 < zyp> ah, thanks
2021-01-06T22:54:03 < karlp> and the PR I'm abotu to merge is https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/1285
2021-01-06T22:54:09 < karlp> which is basically what you're doing now too.
2021-01-06T22:54:31 < antto> zyp, are you writing your C++-ish "drivers" by hand btw?
2021-01-06T22:54:40 < zyp> yeah?
2021-01-06T22:54:49 < antto> :~(
2021-01-06T22:54:58 < srk> cubemx data?
2021-01-06T22:54:59 < zyp> karlp, well, I'm planning to use this for more than just memory sections
2021-01-06T22:55:15 < karlp> true,
2021-01-06T22:55:26 < zyp> I'm planning to list interrupts and peripheral addrs as well
2021-01-06T22:55:29 < antto> i wanted something like that too but didn't wanna write a ton of code while reading datasheets, so i went for parsing .svd
2021-01-06T22:55:42 < antto> was planning to auto-generate the headers out of that
2021-01-06T22:55:44 < karlp> parsving svd leaves you at the mercy of the upstream docs though
2021-01-06T22:55:50 < karlp> they have had errors in them.
2021-01-06T22:55:52 < antto> but i didn't finish it
2021-01-06T22:56:00 < srk> you need to use both svd and cubemx to get the full picture
2021-01-06T22:56:01 < karlp> there's a few projects already that do svd parsing
2021-01-06T22:56:22 < antto> srk, not STM32 specifically, just "cortex M"
2021-01-06T22:56:29 < srk> ah
2021-01-06T22:56:30 < zyp> I don't really want to parse svds, but it's gonna be possible to feed that into the framework I'm building now
2021-01-06T22:56:31 < antto> no kewbmx
2021-01-06T22:56:55 < antto> karlp, i know but they are all SNEK
2021-01-06T22:57:04 < karlp> antto: so?
2021-01-06T22:57:11  * antto and SNEK don't mix
2021-01-06T22:57:23 < karlp> well, keep writing everything by hand then
2021-01-06T22:57:33 < karlp> antoo and stm32 don't seem to mix too well either as best I can tell :)
2021-01-06T22:57:33 < antto> i only speak C++ and mIRC script
2021-01-06T22:57:52 < antto> karlp, no, i started writing an svd parser myself
2021-01-06T22:58:29 < antto> it's supposed to spit out .hpp filez
2021-01-06T22:58:47 < zyp> any feedback on the data format here? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PDhFf
2021-01-06T22:58:51 < antto> but it'll probably also have to vomit linker scripts too :~(
2021-01-06T22:59:06 < karlp> well, it's fucking yaml, and heavily indented, so I'd fuck it up at least.
2021-01-06T22:59:08 < zyp> IMO children sounds stupid, but I don't have a better idea
2021-01-06T22:59:35 < zyp> it's not gonna be that heavily indented once split into multiple files
2021-01-06T22:59:40 < karlp> liek, wtf does match have a -, but not children? or mem? fucking yaml bullshit is why
2021-01-06T23:00:23 < karlp> librecad and .dxf are fucking garbage by the way. like, what the fucking hell
2021-01-06T23:00:31 < antto> now now
2021-01-06T23:00:50 < karlp> what the fuck is this meant to be: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XKF3T.png
2021-01-06T23:01:02 < antto> blame autocad
2021-01-06T23:01:44 < karlp> what else is there than qcad and librecad for 2d shitz?
2021-01-06T23:01:52 < antto> i mean, you're viewing some .dxf made in autocad, right?
2021-01-06T23:01:54 < srk> zyp: you know about modm-devices, right?
2021-01-06T23:02:09 < antto> karlp, freecad should open dxf.. altho it's 3D
2021-01-06T23:03:18 < qyx> karlp: does inkscape open it?
2021-01-06T23:03:35 < antto> noooooooooooo
2021-01-06T23:03:45 < zyp> karlp, match/children/mem are keys in a dict, - is an entry in a list, shit's like [{'match': …, 'children': …}, {'match': …, 'children': …}]
2021-01-06T23:03:57 < antto> yes that's technically an option, but i just feel sad when i think of inkscape
2021-01-06T23:04:11 < zyp> karlp, match just happens to be the first key in the dict, which is why it has the - and not the others
2021-01-06T23:05:43 < zyp> script loops over the list, checking whether an entry matches, and if it does it merges the contents into the state and recurses into children
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2021-01-06T23:07:03 < karlp> freecad is ~same as librecad, just I can rotate the shit in 3d space, which isn't really useful :)
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2021-01-06T23:09:33 < srk> "fucking yaml bullshit is why" <3 <3
2021-01-06T23:10:06 < zyp> oh, apparently it's legal to use «-» as a key
2021-01-06T23:10:47 < karlp> and no, inkscape doesn't open them either
2021-01-06T23:10:50 < Steffanx> "english is shit, because i dont speak english"... makes sense.
2021-01-06T23:11:05 < karlp> AttributeError: module 'inkex' has no attribute 'Text'
2021-01-06T23:11:18 < zyp> I wonder how much people would hate me for this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ld3Cd
2021-01-06T23:11:34 < karlp> looks like yaml
2021-01-06T23:11:40 < karlp> editable, but not authorable
2021-01-06T23:11:45 < zyp> haha
2021-01-06T23:12:08 < zyp> it's gonna look saner with some actual contents, not just structuring
2021-01-06T23:12:12 < karlp> it's my general complaint with it everytime, I can read them, I can copy/past them and edit them, but creating them is for monkeys
2021-01-06T23:13:02 < Steffanx> You should try home assistant, where they also put something that must look like logic into YAML.
2021-01-06T23:13:04 < Steffanx> thats great fun
2021-01-06T23:13:21 < srk> or ansible
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2021-01-06T23:13:35 < zyp> I used to argue that yaml was like unreadable json, then I was forced to learn it, and now I actually prefer it to json
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2021-01-06T23:14:11 < karlp> until the minute you stop actively working on it
2021-01-06T23:14:13 < Steffanx> Imho yaml is fine for data, not for the configuration of "complex" systems.
2021-01-06T23:14:32 < karlp> biggest rule against yaml is that it's still not in python base ;)
2021-01-06T23:14:46 < srk> saltstack is like meta ansible so you can do for loops to generate yaml
2021-01-06T23:14:54 < zyp> Steffanx, what do you think about the structure of this shit though?
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2021-01-06T23:15:24 < karlp> hasn't salt largely been displaced by ansible?
2021-01-06T23:15:42 < karlp> I used salt a few years ago, but it appeard that ansible community had eaten it and salt was now an "also played"
2021-01-06T23:15:58 < srk> idk, both are terrible tools
2021-01-06T23:16:09 < srk> had the pleasure with both, never again
2021-01-06T23:16:41 < zyp> I've used ansible, seems to work well enough for what it's supposed to do
2021-01-06T23:16:53 < srk> lots of salt stuff was like slightly-different-names of the same concepts in ansible
2021-01-06T23:17:09 < zyp> I use it to manage docker containers
2021-01-06T23:17:19 < srk> poor you
2021-01-06T23:17:28 < zyp> why?
2021-01-06T23:17:31 < srk> it gets bad with complexity / modules
2021-01-06T23:17:36 < srk> (ansible)
2021-01-06T23:18:08 < Steffanx> zyp: except for "childeren" looks fine to me. And not that hard to understand.
2021-01-06T23:18:11 < Steffanx> *children
2021-01-06T23:18:28 < zyp> Steffanx, I think I like this better: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ld3Cd
2021-01-06T23:18:48 < Steffanx> maybe the first "children" could be "families" and and one level lower is like.. "parts".
2021-01-06T23:19:17 < zyp> ah, no, the point is that the yaml parser doesn't care about that
2021-01-06T23:19:22 < Steffanx> the -: makes it less readable imho, but ... idk.
2021-01-06T23:19:43 < zyp> it just recurses into every branch that matches and merges it into a common configuration
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2021-01-06T23:24:25 < qyx> karlp: how far did you get with your custom ac/dc?
2021-01-06T23:27:27 < karlp> found a meanwell model and a recom model that are meeting myu reqs for ~$7 in volumes, so unless that proves to not fit space wise, it's currently been discarded as "good for me professionally, silly for the product"
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2021-01-06T23:29:18 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/MFM-10-12/7707282 is $10 in singles, hard to beat really.
2021-01-06T23:29:21 < qyx> I'll probably design something with https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Wurth-Elektronik/750811611/?qs=lLNBdBpDhSYY0lgjdmfSgg%3D%3D
2021-01-06T23:29:28 < karlp> you can do better if catergery 2 is good enough
2021-01-06T23:29:38 < karlp> sorry, if OVP cat II is good enough
2021-01-06T23:29:40 < qyx> I need low profile <12 mm
2021-01-06T23:29:53 < karlp> yeah. I ... may.
2021-01-06T23:30:08 < karlp> I'm currently in a world of modelling, as you may have guessed :)
2021-01-06T23:30:19 < karlp> but I'm hoping to get away with one of the existing ones I shortlisted
2021-01-06T23:30:26 < zyp> Steffanx, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/humeE https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KMAZt
2021-01-06T23:30:27 < karlp> some of them are flatter than others.
2021-01-06T23:30:33 < qyx> yeah I am using MFM and IRM now
2021-01-06T23:30:41 < qyx> but nothing that flat
2021-01-06T23:30:55 < qyx> (from meanwell)
2021-01-06T23:31:23 < karlp> I have a shortlist I can share, but it's all 4k iso stuff, so it' smissing lots of the good options that are available if you don't need that
2021-01-06T23:32:09 < qyx> I'll try to arduino something up first probably
2021-01-06T23:33:11 < karlp> yar, given that the recommended transofmers for some of the 10-12W appnotes I was looking at were ~$5 in singles, I'm not going any further there now unless the space/shapes require me to
2021-01-06T23:33:13 < qyx> when the transformers are readily available, I feel confident I won't get electrocuted
2021-01-06T23:33:16 < PaulFertser> pcb transformers can be quite flat and you manufacture them the same way you order regular pcbs.
2021-01-06T23:33:46 < qyx> except you need 20 layers
2021-01-06T23:34:06 < PaulFertser> You stack regular PCBs for that.
2021-01-06T23:34:22 < zyp> I used an isolated DCDC like that once
2021-01-06T23:35:42 < karlp> I don't care about getting electrocuted, I care about passing the tests :)
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2021-01-06T23:36:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jAB7U.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8wRL0.jpg
2021-01-06T23:36:19 < zyp> apparently didn't have pics without enclosure
2021-01-06T23:37:12 < qyx> those red murata things?
2021-01-06T23:37:17 < zyp> yes
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2021-01-06T23:43:54 < karlp> zyp: remember when you told me to "just do it" and do the rf myself if I wanted to use stm32wb?  I could also just have waited for the modules :) https://www.eenewseurope.com/news/wireless-module-cuts-iot-design-time?fnid=134727
2021-01-06T23:46:30 < zyp> nice
2021-01-06T23:49:08 < zyp> I should take another look at them some time, see if software and docs improved
2021-01-06T23:49:30 < zyp> still annoyed about the cpu2 restrictions though :p
2021-01-06T23:55:50 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PkNN9/Screenshot_2021-01-06_22-55-35.png
2021-01-06T23:55:51 < qyx> well done
2021-01-06T23:56:03 < zyp> haha
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 07 2021
2021-01-07T00:00:07 < qyx> hm, even the EFD20 with 12 mm height is too much
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2021-01-07T00:00:31 < qyx> I have to do a hole in the PCB and mount it from the bottom
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2021-01-07T00:22:45 < machinehum> Those yanks at it again
2021-01-07T00:33:00 < Steffanx> haha yeah, lol
2021-01-07T00:34:28 < Steffanx> Whats the idea behind the flags zyp ? Defaults but overridable or .. ?
2021-01-07T00:35:30 < zyp> cflags?
2021-01-07T00:35:39 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-01-07T00:37:15 < zyp> the idea is to take the data out of this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/build_rules
2021-01-07T00:42:13 < zyp> i.e. I'll parse the data and some stuff like the cflags and whatever will go into the scons environment and can be overridden by the project SConstruct if needed
2021-01-07T00:42:32 < zyp> other stuff will be used for templating
2021-01-07T01:09:07 < qyx> I innovated a bit https://bin.jvnv.net/file/v8hs4/Screenshot_2021-01-07_00-06-24.png
2021-01-07T01:09:29 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JtGmV/Screenshot_2021-01-07_00-07-44.png
2021-01-07T01:09:53 < qyx> not very pnp compatible though
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2021-01-07T01:11:46 < Steffanx> Is such huge component pnp'd often anyway?
2021-01-07T01:14:05 < qyx> it has a pnp cap on top
2021-01-07T01:14:33 < qyx> idk I'll handcraft it
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2021-01-07T01:20:01 < kakium69> Laurenceb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbGYRsDgJxs
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2021-01-07T01:42:48 < mawk> what does laks mean
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2021-01-07T01:44:06 < mawk> low archival kompilation system
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2021-01-07T01:48:48 < mrtrousers> Hello
2021-01-07T01:48:57 < mrtrousers> Will STM32 run arduino code and libraries?
2021-01-07T01:49:48 < machinehum> https://github.com/stm32duino
2021-01-07T01:50:25 < mrtrousers> Ok, ill have a look..
2021-01-07T01:50:41 < mrtrousers> More specifically will that code run ona a stm32? : https://github.com/sparkfun/SparkFun_Ublox_Arduino_Library
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2021-01-07T01:52:03 < machinehum> loosely speaking, depends if the dependencies have been ported.
2021-01-07T01:52:35 < machinehum> Shouldn't be a problem
2021-01-07T01:52:48 < mrtrousers> They are both programmed in C or C++ right?
2021-01-07T01:53:00 < machinehum> erm
2021-01-07T01:53:35 < machinehum> MCU's don't really care about the high level language, all that gets compiled down into asm then machine code
2021-01-07T01:54:09 < machinehum> In theory you can compile any language to run on an STM32
2021-01-07T01:55:21 < machinehum> What you care about is if the low level drivers have been ported, like that lib looks like it uses i2c, which should certainly be available in stm32duino or whatever
2021-01-07T01:55:36 < zyp> it's not a matter of language, it's a matter of whether the interfaces (functions, etc…) that that library requires are available
2021-01-07T01:55:44 < zyp> and that's what stm32duino is supposed to provide
2021-01-07T01:57:46 < qyx> why would you use ublox ardweeno library on a stm32?
2021-01-07T01:57:58 < zyp> why not?
2021-01-07T01:58:04 < qyx> idk, judst asking
2021-01-07T01:58:47 < machinehum> lol
2021-01-07T01:58:49 < machinehum> https://github.com/sparkfun/SparkFun_Ublox_Arduino_Library/blob/master/src/SparkFun_Ublox_Arduino_Library.cpp#L2664
2021-01-07T01:58:55 < machinehum> Why the fuck is boolean typed out
2021-01-07T01:59:24 < zyp> https://www.arduino.cc/reference/en/language/variables/data-types/boolean/
2021-01-07T02:00:11 < machinehum> Yeah I've never used Arduino stuff much, but that's really dumb
2021-01-07T02:00:13 < qyx> This is a library written for the u-blox ZED-F9P and NEO-M8P-2
2021-01-07T02:00:17 < qyx> mrtrousers: are you into RTK?
2021-01-07T02:00:18 < machinehum> It’s recommended to instead use the standard type bool, which is identical.
2021-01-07T02:00:22 < mrtrousers> Yes
2021-01-07T02:00:26 < machinehum> WHY
2021-01-07T02:00:32 < mrtrousers> Yes qyx
2021-01-07T02:00:34 < qyx> mrtrousers: I am interested
2021-01-07T02:00:44 < qyx> I mean, let me know how you are progressing
2021-01-07T02:00:51 < mrtrousers> Im controlling it with an uno at the moment but running out of memory..
2021-01-07T02:01:03 < zyp> machinehum, because arduino is built on a foundation of bad decisions that are now legacy cruft
2021-01-07T02:01:23 < mrtrousers> Now im trying to work out what to get next an arduino due, a teensy 4, an STM32 or a raspberry pi..
2021-01-07T02:01:34 < machinehum> zyp: heh
2021-01-07T02:01:51 < qyx> mrtrousers: and is the RTK working for you?
2021-01-07T02:02:05 < machinehum> I suppose to make that shit compatable with gcc? One could typedef BOOLEAN against a u8 or whatever
2021-01-07T02:02:22 < mrtrousers> qyx it was on the laptop, with the arduino i just started testing today..
2021-01-07T02:06:53 < mrtrousers> What stm32 nucleo board should i choose?
2021-01-07T02:07:22 < qyx> it depends on your application and support in the stm32duino thing
2021-01-07T02:08:11 < qyx> choose CM4 or CM7 if you are not price constrained (in the end product)
2021-01-07T02:08:27 < qyx> avoid F1, F2, they are old
2021-01-07T02:08:46 < qyx> avoid F0, G0, they are for lowcost/simple things
2021-01-07T02:09:16 < qyx> L4, G4, F7 are good and new
2021-01-07T02:09:29 < qyx> F4 is semi-good, legacy
2021-01-07T02:09:55 < qyx> H7 is superfast and probably not interesting for your purpose
2021-01-07T02:10:13 < Steffanx> F4s family is pretty large
2021-01-07T02:10:23 < qyx> F303, F411/412/.. are good for low cost
2021-01-07T02:10:48 < qyx> F401 too
2021-01-07T02:10:49 < qyx> yeah
2021-01-07T02:11:37 < qyx> do we have a stm32 selection guide in zypsnips?
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2021-01-07T02:17:33 < zyp> f407 is my goto part if I don't have any reasons to pick anything else
2021-01-07T02:18:17 < zyp> it's mature, well supported and fairly big and capable
2021-01-07T02:20:42 < zyp> on a general basis, f1 is the only part I'd avoid on purpose
2021-01-07T02:20:57 < qyx> I mostly use F042, L431/2, F303, G473
2021-01-07T02:21:12 < qyx> the last one only for the last couple of designs
2021-01-07T02:21:26 < qyx> and F411
2021-01-07T02:22:28 < zyp> I've got f303 in a project, but I'd pick a cheaper part if I did that from scratch today
2021-01-07T02:22:59 < qyx> isnt f303 supercheap?
2021-01-07T02:23:15 < zyp> and then I've got l042 in another project, because I did that later than the f3 project and it was available and cheaper :)
2021-01-07T02:23:44 < zyp> not sure what I'd pick for either of those today
2021-01-07T02:23:58 < zyp> something with usb that's not f0
2021-01-07T02:24:15 < zyp> last I checked g0 with usb was not available, but I got the impression it's coming eventually?
2021-01-07T02:24:21 < zyp> so perhaps that
2021-01-07T02:24:29 < machinehum> I was working on a project where the EE picked the L3 something or other because it's a lower power part... turned out all his circuits drew like 0.5A, meanwhile I'm fucking around with making a faster sprints to meet deadlines
2021-01-07T02:24:47 < machinehum> spintf
2021-01-07T02:24:53 < machinehum> sprintf* fuck
2021-01-07T02:24:56 < zyp> haha
2021-01-07T02:25:03 < zyp> l0 is 24 MHz :)
2021-01-07T02:26:25 < qyx> G473 is my new favorite
2021-01-07T02:27:38 < machinehum> "0-wait-state execution from Flash memory" ... does it still use that prefetch buffer?
2021-01-07T02:27:59 < machinehum> Because that pretty much disallows jsr's
2021-01-07T02:28:24 < zyp> qyx, how does it compare?
2021-01-07T02:29:34 < zyp> as fast as a f407
2021-01-07T02:29:52 < zyp> but less flash
2021-01-07T02:29:58 < zyp> and less ram
2021-01-07T02:30:05 < qyx> it is newer so no 10 year old peripherals
2021-01-07T02:30:07 < qyx> like SPI on F4
2021-01-07T02:30:12 < zyp> and some neat newer IO
2021-01-07T02:30:22 < zyp> qspi, ucpd
2021-01-07T02:30:33 < zyp> heh
2021-01-07T02:30:41 < zyp> why does the SPI differences matter?
2021-01-07T02:30:50 < zyp> are you doing weird word sizes?
2021-01-07T02:30:57 < qyx> just my subjective preference
2021-01-07T02:31:03 < qyx> I hate dealing with old things
2021-01-07T02:31:16 < qyx> F0, F3, L4 are all newer
2021-01-07T02:31:27 < zyp> also L0
2021-01-07T02:31:27 < qyx> I see no reason for F4 anymore
2021-01-07T02:31:36 < qyx> maybe except cost for F40x, F41x
2021-01-07T02:31:39 < qyx> and ethernet
2021-01-07T02:31:46 < qyx> and even then theres a F750 which is cheaper
2021-01-07T02:32:12 < zyp> IMO mature is good
2021-01-07T03:14:30 < zyp> yaml shit works: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms?id=d4244f3 :)
2021-01-07T03:14:47 < zyp> looks a bit tidyer after splitting into multiple files too
2021-01-07T03:16:21 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms/stm32/f4.yaml?id=d4244f3 <- I haven't made the linker script generator yet, so I'm cheating a bit and added a parameter for the old linker scripts :)
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2021-01-07T05:13:18 < Laurenceb_> >2020
2021-01-07T05:13:30 < Laurenceb_> >edgelord kinds poke wasps nest with stick
2021-01-07T05:13:32 < Laurenceb_> >2021
2021-01-07T05:13:42 < Laurenceb_> >edgelord kids poke muricans with stick
2021-01-07T05:14:02 < Laurenceb_> go on, start a riot
2021-01-07T05:24:18 < Laurenceb_> like a live action panto
2021-01-07T05:24:28 < Laurenceb_> crossed with Gladiators
2021-01-07T05:24:38 < Laurenceb_> who needs sportsball
2021-01-07T05:25:45 < Laurenceb_> only way this would be funnier is if Trump was declared criminally insane and arrested
2021-01-07T05:27:22 < Laurenceb_> I see "dont tread on me or my wifes son every again" flags
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2021-01-07T07:30:12 < Laurenceb> what the actual fuck
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2021-01-07T10:56:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> For some reason, I always thought that F0 was older than F4
2021-01-07T11:00:45 < zyp> nope
2021-01-07T11:01:21 < zyp> timeline goes something like this if I recall correctly: f1, f2, f4, l1, f3, f0, l0
2021-01-07T11:01:44 < zyp> and then I'm not sure what order things arrived in after that :)
2021-01-07T11:01:45 < Jak_o_Shadows> huh
2021-01-07T11:01:54 < Jak_o_Shadows> So the f042's were not such a bad choice for my custom boards
2021-01-07T11:02:37 < zyp> f042 were the first parts supporting crystalless usb
2021-01-07T11:02:57 < zyp> f0 would be great if they had cortex-m0+ instead of cortex-m0
2021-01-07T11:03:10 < zyp> that's the sole reason I've used l0 instead of f0 for some stuff
2021-01-07T11:04:16 < Jak_o_Shadows> L0's are used a lot at work
2021-01-07T11:04:53 < Jak_o_Shadows> TBH, i only picked the f042 because at the time I couldn't find a physically smaller one in a non-stupid package
2021-01-07T11:05:03 < Jak_o_Shadows> I know you can get L0s of some kind smaller
2021-01-07T11:05:17 < zyp> you can get g0 in so8n now :)
2021-01-07T11:07:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> Damn that's cool
2021-01-07T11:08:20 < qyx> F042 is great, USB, CAN, small
2021-01-07T11:09:00 < zyp> although if you're going for small, IIRC qfp28 is 4x4mm, probably smallest footprint usable on normal board specs
2021-01-07T11:09:00 < Jak_o_Shadows> I probably should think about USB for version 4
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2021-01-07T11:09:46 < Jak_o_Shadows> eh, tssop is fine, I'm soldering with an iron still
2021-01-07T11:09:53 < Jak_o_Shadows> low low quantity type stuff
2021-01-07T11:10:03 < Jak_o_Shadows> through, I wonder if JLC PCB stocks micro's for their SMT assembly
2021-01-07T11:10:43 < qyx> F042 sitting in a battery clip https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Fvrz5/Screenshot_2021-01-07_10-10-20.png
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2021-01-07T11:16:20 < zyp> qyx, that's the qfn28?
2021-01-07T11:16:26 < qyx> yep
2021-01-07T11:16:35 < zyp> how are they to solder?
2021-01-07T11:16:52 < qyx> good to hotair
2021-01-07T11:17:02 < qyx> no bridges
2021-01-07T11:17:55 < qyx> I have a feeling the pads don't want to soak solder that easy as for other QFNs though
2021-01-07T11:18:07 < zyp> the corner pads worry me a bit
2021-01-07T11:20:07 < qyx> the only problem with them is you cannot fanout them from the inside
2021-01-07T11:20:29  * qyx fighting with kicad's clipboard
2021-01-07T11:22:02 < zyp> why not?
2021-01-07T11:22:12 < zyp> the qfn28 doesn't have a center pad IIRC
2021-01-07T11:23:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3b50p.png
2021-01-07T11:24:13 < qyx> I mean problem with the corner pads
2021-01-07T11:24:20 < zyp> ah
2021-01-07T11:24:21 < qyx> not with the qfn itself
2021-01-07T11:35:58 < karlp> fun language of he day, "The recitation of numerical ranges by endpoints includes all numbers subsumed within that range, including the endpoints (e.g. 1 to 5 includes 1, 2.78, π, 3.3̅3, 4, and 5)"
2021-01-07T11:36:18 < karlp> there's a recurring bar over the 3.33 in the original text
2021-01-07T11:38:05 < zyp> heh
2021-01-07T11:38:24 < zyp> karlp, still awful? https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms?id=d4244f3
2021-01-07T11:41:09 < zyp> the intention is for most of the files to look like this: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms/stm32/f4.yaml?id=d4244f3
2021-01-07T11:41:18 < zyp> less structuring noise, more content
2021-01-07T11:42:17 < zyp> that file has three blocks, first two matches e and g memory variants, third matches all
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2021-01-07T12:08:02 < karlp> better, only thing I don't really like now is using "mem" for the match, that leads to a new "mem" block
2021-01-07T12:08:31 < zyp> matches goes against meta
2021-01-07T12:08:33 < karlp> part_mem? (I know _ and longer shit is alwaysbad, just an idea)
2021-01-07T12:08:36 < zyp> so there's meta.mem and mem
2021-01-07T12:08:50 < zyp> but yeah
2021-01-07T12:09:04 < karlp> yeah, I know why it'slike that, just always best to avoid ambigs like htat when you can, IMO
2021-01-07T12:09:52 < karlp> "size2 for the part mem?
2021-01-07T12:09:58 < karlp> a bit vague too maybe.
2021-01-07T12:10:03 < karlp> density?
2021-01-07T12:10:08  * karlp shrugs.
2021-01-07T12:10:31 < karlp> are you going to gneerate those linker scripts?
2021-01-07T12:10:44 < karlp> or are you really going to try and have prebaked for all of them?
2021-01-07T12:10:59 < karlp> onlydifference between f4e and f4g is memory size rigt?
2021-01-07T12:11:23 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=ba80791 <- there's a reason I added this also :)
2021-01-07T12:12:19 < karlp> goodo :)
2021-01-07T12:12:41 < karlp> I'm impressed at how well jinja has aged, its not been replaced like so much else
2021-01-07T12:27:48 < zyp> karlp, here you go: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?id=cf79d8f
2021-01-07T12:33:00 < karlp> "org" and "len" ? does that work?
2021-01-07T12:33:08 < karlp> all my linker scirpts have "ORIGIN" and "LENGTH"
2021-01-07T12:33:14 < zyp> here's what it generates: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/xFbes
2021-01-07T12:33:27 < zyp> and this is how all my old linker scripts work, so I guess
2021-01-07T12:34:13 < zyp> I just copypasted one and swapped the old contents with the template insertion
2021-01-07T12:34:37 < zyp> need to whip up a hex filter some time to make the generated numbers a bit more readable
2021-01-07T12:35:02 < karlp> or not,  they're not meant to be readable are they ;)
2021-01-07T12:35:31 < karlp> you can also pass K suffice too..
2021-01-07T12:35:45 < zyp> yeah, but I already added a yaml filter to parse that :p
2021-01-07T12:35:57 < karlp> oops
2021-01-07T12:36:09 < karlp> sw man.
2021-01-07T12:36:13 < karlp> always explodes
2021-01-07T12:36:31 < zyp> well, thing is, I wanna add handling for bootloader magic later
2021-01-07T12:37:09 < zyp> so I can tell the builder something like offset = 0x2000, and then it automatically adds to origin and subtracts from size
2021-01-07T12:37:32 < karlp> easy to do too much magic.
2021-01-07T12:38:10 < karlp> the dapboot project I played with has some support ofr crazy shit like bootloader at the end, and selectivly replacing some vectors
2021-01-07T12:38:45 < karlp> so you don't have to change how the app is linked, for use with / without bootloader
2021-01-07T12:39:17 < karlp> anywya, I think I should go to a proper desk and get back to modelling cutouts and shit
2021-01-07T12:39:17 < zyp> oh
2021-01-07T12:39:31 < zyp> that's an interesting approach, never thought about doing it like that
2021-01-07T12:40:12 < zyp> but no thanks
2021-01-07T12:40:33 < qyx> bootloader at the end?
2021-01-07T12:40:45 < karlp> https://github.com/devanlai/dapboot/
2021-01-07T12:40:47 < qyx> what do you need to do, change the reset vector only?
2021-01-07T12:41:17 < karlp> I dind't support that mode whenI ported it to L0/L1 :)
2021-01-07T12:41:21 < zyp> thinking about it, it's pretty obvious why I don't want to do it like that; I don't want to erase and rewrite the first page in flash at all
2021-01-07T12:41:40 < zyp> because that is a bricking risk
2021-01-07T12:42:34 < karlp> well, this thing was done by bluepillers so....
2021-01-07T12:42:40 < zyp> and when you can't do that, you can't change any vectors, and additionally the firmware still has to stay out of first page
2021-01-07T12:43:11 < qyx> it would be better if the PIC support was easy and proper
2021-01-07T12:43:24 < qyx> so any offset will work
2021-01-07T12:43:33 < zyp> so if you want a binary that can work also without bootloader, it'd be easier to just link it for 0x8002000 and then throw in a minimal stub at 0x8000000 if there's no bootloader present
2021-01-07T12:43:33 < qyx> (data and other stuff on static locations)
2021-01-07T12:45:54 < zyp> as long as you're happy with the overhead of going through a GOT, isn't it fairly easy to make code PIC?
2021-01-07T12:47:00 < qyx> I don't understand the GOT approach
2021-01-07T12:47:06 < qyx> why is it even needed in this case?
2021-01-07T12:47:24 < qyx> cannot you PC-reference things?
2021-01-07T12:48:09 < qyx> it is not that code/functions can by at any location, it is a compact block of code
2021-01-07T12:48:17 < qyx> the only variable thing is the (PC) offset
2021-01-07T12:48:22 < zyp> depends if it's at a fixed location rlative to PC or not
2021-01-07T12:48:29 < qyx> yes it is
2021-01-07T12:48:34 < qyx> why shouldn't it be in this case
2021-01-07T12:48:48 < zyp> because it might be a function pointer in .data?
2021-01-07T12:49:33 < qyx> hm
2021-01-07T12:49:34 < zyp> not sure if it also allows .data and .bss to move
2021-01-07T12:50:03 < qyx> so a function pointer residing in .data and pointing to .text is a problem
2021-01-07T12:50:09 < qyx> hm, fair point
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2021-01-07T13:14:14 < karlp> ok, qcad community works today after rebooting.  hooray for reliability
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2021-01-07T13:23:51 < karlp> new qcad pro trial still just dead in the water with a blank screen though, somme qt/gl bullshit I guess
2021-01-07T13:25:59 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit?id=082db0c
2021-01-07T13:27:05 < karlp> scons is still py2 right?
2021-01-07T13:27:35 < zyp> not sure if py2 is still supported, I've been using it with py3 for a couple of years or so
2021-01-07T13:27:54 < karlp> or are we in a weird world where SConstrucst may or may be using py3 shits, and you don't know until it fails to work?
2021-01-07T13:28:30 < zyp> well, yeah: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?id=287ea86
2021-01-07T13:29:45 < zyp> I'd expect to be past that point already, I figure any project that has actual users already got enough complaints that any shit got fixed
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2021-01-07T13:54:14 < qyx> hm, I need only functional isolation on the primary side of a flyback, right
2021-01-07T13:54:27 < qyx> karlp is superpro on that now
2021-01-07T14:01:33 < karlp> no I'm not.
2021-01-07T14:01:47 < karlp> what do you mean by functional on primary side?
2021-01-07T14:02:14 < karlp> you need the creepage/clearance between terminals of whatever installation category and voltage you want
2021-01-07T14:02:38 < karlp> and you need the isolation rating of the transformer to match for primary:secondary for what you want
2021-01-07T14:03:54 < qyx> yes that I understand
2021-01-07T14:04:20 < qyx> but for example the mosfet, do I need to make slots to preserve creepage even between its D and S?
2021-01-07T14:04:39 < qyx> I assume not as far as the clearance is enough to withstand those 600V or so
2021-01-07T14:07:41 < karlp> yeah, that's where I've been like, "why is this ok, but not that?" *shrugs*
2021-01-07T14:08:33 < qyx> maybe I could just as in the emc lab
2021-01-07T14:08:36 < qyx> *ask
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2021-01-07T14:14:24 < qyx> so in the worst case for <240V single phase, IEC says I have to withstand 4 kV impulse whatever it is
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2021-01-07T14:20:50 < karlp> I onl yneed 4kv for category III over voltage protection, because I'm workign in the electical panel, it's a lot easier if you don't need that, category II is much lower
2021-01-07T14:22:49 < jpa-> qyx: AFAIK functional insulation is ok everywhere where failure would only mean equipment damage
2021-01-07T14:23:22 < jpa-> arc between mosfet D & S doesn't sound like electrical safety issue, though it could still be some level of fire safety issue
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2021-01-07T14:24:55 < zyp> apparently microchip support are bored or something, because they started reponding to my support case again after two months of silence
2021-01-07T14:25:02 < jpa-> though AFAIK you don't need to prepare for the 4kV impulse if you already have overvoltage protection before that, e.g. before the mains rectifier
2021-01-07T14:25:50 < qyx> so overvoltage category is apparently II for common appliances behind distrib panel
2021-01-07T14:26:08 < qyx> III in the workst case with some margin
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2021-01-07T14:26:57 < qyx> so 1.5 to 2.5 kV or so, so 1.6 mm clearance for the worst case pollution degree
2021-01-07T14:27:06 < qyx> I would say I am safe
2021-01-07T14:28:00 < qyx> jpa-: thats what I think too
2021-01-07T14:28:07 < zyp> karlp, what is it that makes cat III required?
2021-01-07T14:38:00 < jpa-> zyp: "connection to a fixed installation", apparently
2021-01-07T14:38:44 < zyp> ah
2021-01-07T14:39:39 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/categories.png
2021-01-07T14:41:19 < zyp> huh, «EmberRadio» https://github.com/renode/renode/blob/master/platforms/cpus/stm32w108.repl
2021-01-07T14:45:46 < zyp> I find it amusing that renode has emulation for stm32w despite it being both undocumented and obsolete
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2021-01-07T14:47:33 < karlp> yeah, I chatted with them about that, it was some early pilot stuff, they know about how useless it is and are slowly removing it.
2021-01-07T14:48:17 < karlp> and yeah, what jpa said
2021-01-07T14:51:45 < karlp> qyx: were you talking abotu super slow draging speeds in kicad pcb? I'm seeing that now, but dont' remember it before.
2021-01-07T14:52:08 < karlp> ahh, it's from having the 3d preview window open at the same time
2021-01-07T14:52:46 < qyx> yeah it causes it too
2021-01-07T14:52:52 < qyx> but I saw it in eeschema
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2021-01-07T15:27:49 < karlp> anyone know off the topp of their head if molex microfit 2x4 can be plugged into by by 4 lotts of 1x2 plugs? do they stack sideways like that?
2021-01-07T15:28:40 < zyp> careful about the keyed corners
2021-01-07T15:29:54 < zyp> https://www.digikey.no/product-detail/en/molex,-llc/0430250808/WM13210-ND/3310166 <- doesn't look like that's gonna work
2021-01-07T15:30:41 < zyp> and I guess the plugs are also too wide to sit next to each other unless you get special ones like on ATX PSUs
2021-01-07T15:33:42 < karlp> yeah, I think I've seen one similar form phoenix/molex, just gotta go dig it up I guess. would have been too easy...
2021-01-07T15:34:14 < qyx> karlp: no
2021-01-07T15:34:55 < zyp> oh, didn't know nano-fit was a thing
2021-01-07T15:34:59 < qyx> I am quite sure because of the locking concept
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2021-01-07T15:58:32 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-07T15:59:29 < zyp> I wonder if I can just take some stm32f103 usb hello world, swap the cpu for a risc-v and throw it on the gd32v
2021-01-07T16:21:31 < englishman> code or binary?
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2021-01-07T16:37:10 < Steffanx> Binary ofcourse :)
2021-01-07T16:51:52 < karlp> re overvoltage again, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gNaUL.png is form 62368-2014, the "new" one.
2021-01-07T17:00:31 < qyx> explanative table
2021-01-07T17:01:24 < qyx> and now what category is a bridge
2021-01-07T17:01:34 < qyx> permanently installed
2021-01-07T17:01:51 < qyx> not part of the wiring/infrastructure
2021-01-07T17:03:06 < karlp> what do you mean a bridge?
2021-01-07T17:05:39 < qyx> https://previews.123rf.com/images/chbaum/chbaum1405/chbaum140500165/28341758-modern-steel-bridge-across-the-river-rhine-germany.jpg
2021-01-07T17:06:08 < jpa-> i don't think that's within the scope of ISO62368 :)
2021-01-07T17:16:07 < englishman> are you saying bridges don't have to be electrically safe?
2021-01-07T17:20:53 < jpa-> i'm saying that the number is 62368 because there are 62367 other standards that apply for different things than "home and office electronic equipment"
2021-01-07T17:27:15 < jadew> lmfao, USPS wait time for support is 1 hour
2021-01-07T17:27:25 < jadew> wait... "more than one hour"
2021-01-07T17:59:48 < zyp> phone or chat?
2021-01-07T18:05:49 < Steffanx> Jadew's chat response time is also > 30 minutes  it seems
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2021-01-07T18:09:39 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk the state of murica
2021-01-07T18:09:48 < Laurenceb> like a live action panto
2021-01-07T18:10:02 < Laurenceb> this is better than WWE
2021-01-07T18:14:24 < BrainDamage> they are expressing their dissent in a way that's compatible with the constitution
2021-01-07T18:14:33 < mawk> lol
2021-01-07T18:14:54 < mawk> is audio over BLE a thing?
2021-01-07T18:14:55 < Laurenceb> we should turn their entire country into a massive riot zone
2021-01-07T18:15:07 < Laurenceb> fit cameras and broadcast as entertainment
2021-01-07T18:16:18 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: they are expressing themselves in a way thats compatible with their room temperature IQ
2021-01-07T18:16:21 < Laurenceb> ftfy
2021-01-07T18:17:22 < BrainDamage> ofc it's retarded, but they got that far away because people in the security dept were complacent
2021-01-07T18:17:38 < Laurenceb> in britbong land we have shrovetide football which is kind of similar but its ironic
2021-01-07T18:17:52 < Laurenceb> also no smashing private property or using weapons
2021-01-07T18:17:55 < BrainDamage> also, if I were a foreign agent, this is a fantastic occasion to bug the placce
2021-01-07T18:18:15 < Laurenceb> >get ball to goal by any means possible
2021-01-07T18:19:12 < Laurenceb> people make fake balls and stuff
2021-01-07T18:42:30 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZEsF7/Screenshot_2021-01-07_17-41-29.png
2021-01-07T18:42:42 < qyx> I'll keep the secondary for tomorrow
2021-01-07T18:43:41 < englishman> BrainDamage: was it you that recommended the wowstick about a month ago
2021-01-07T18:44:22 < BrainDamage> I reviewed it, not recommended, I think it's ok-ish, but not stellar
2021-01-07T18:44:29 < BrainDamage> in particular, the torque is pretty meh
2021-01-07T18:45:21 < karlp> wish I had your productivity qyx :)
2021-01-07T18:45:55 < karlp> is this to mains power your whole systtem, as an alternative ot the 3xAA card?
2021-01-07T18:51:54 < Laurenceb> >Biden is just a puppet bro>Trump is still ruling from a secret command centre under Area 51 bro>Hilary is done now bro
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2021-01-07T18:53:38 < Laurenceb> >rioters were Biden supporters paid by Hillary
2021-01-07T19:02:25 < qyx> karlp: 230V is usually the case, I am now using a 24V psu but 1. it is quite complex and 2. it isn't optimal to have another 230V->24V supply outside the waterproof enclosure
2021-01-07T19:03:10 < qyx> the 3xAA thing is kind of a backup and uses classical consumer batteries
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2021-01-07T19:20:15 < karlp> woops, pressing "text" button in qcad hangs :)
2021-01-07T19:20:46 < Laurenceb> yesterday Octave 6.0 segfaulted :(
2021-01-07T19:23:11 < Laurenceb> so much for muh latest Octave
2021-01-07T19:23:39 < Laurenceb> still better than numpy
2021-01-07T19:46:53 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-01-07T19:53:33 < Laurenceb> https://i.ibb.co/NZmfRrp/image.jpg
2021-01-07T19:59:18 < zyp> nice, riscv toolchain from homebrew is also 10.2
2021-01-07T19:59:25 < zyp> modern compilers all around then :)
2021-01-07T20:09:32 < Laurenceb> >homebrew
2021-01-07T20:09:37 < Steffanx> Whats happening to this work? Modern/recent compilers that function properly
2021-01-07T20:09:39 < Laurenceb> apple spotted
2021-01-07T20:09:52 < Steffanx> > Laurenceb 
2021-01-07T20:09:59 < Steffanx> Britbong spotted
2021-01-07T20:10:55 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqr8CmvW4AAT9a0?format=jpg&name=orig
2021-01-07T20:11:11  * antto removes the 'e' and 'u' from Laurenceb -> Larncb
2021-01-07T20:15:13 < Laurenceb> >emdrivers were at the Capitol
2021-01-07T20:15:15 < Laurenceb> my sides
2021-01-07T20:16:17 < Laurenceb> >chilling on ur emdrive spaceship with Q anon
2021-01-07T20:21:27 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45824.0;attach=1544242;image
2021-01-07T20:21:33 < Laurenceb> maybe he is qanon
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2021-01-07T20:23:29 < rajkosto> why does suddenly nothing about stlink work
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2021-01-07T20:34:41 < rajkosto> works on my f103 board but not f411
2021-01-07T20:36:31 < Ad0> Steffanx, britbong heh. sounds like a certain forum / board :D 
2021-01-07T20:39:37 < Steffanx> Heh I only know this word because Laurenceb visits this forum ad0 ;)
2021-01-07T20:39:44 < Ad0> haha
2021-01-07T20:40:17 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: if you're using openocd I can try helping you if you show more logs.
2021-01-07T20:40:31 < rajkosto> Info : STLINK v2 JTAG v37 API v2 SWIM v7 VID 0x0483 PID 0x3748
2021-01-07T20:40:31 < rajkosto> Info : using stlink api v2
2021-01-07T20:40:32 < rajkosto> Info : Target voltage: 3.228777
2021-01-07T20:40:32 < rajkosto> Error: init mode failed (unable to connect to the target)
2021-01-07T20:40:41 < rajkosto> all it ever says
2021-01-07T20:41:03 < rajkosto> if i connect same stlink to f103 it halts it and everything, stlink utility works and shows flash contents
2021-01-07T20:41:42 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: have you tried connecting physical reset line to the target and using "reset_config connect_assert_srst"?
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2021-01-07T20:41:53 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: is it an original stlink or clone?
2021-01-07T20:42:09 < rajkosto> i have both v2 and 2.1, same thing happens
2021-01-07T20:43:28 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: so what about the reset line?
2021-01-07T20:45:26 < rajkosto> by adding ? -c "reset_config connect_assert_srst"
2021-01-07T20:45:30 < rajkosto> same thing
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2021-01-07T20:48:40 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: why are you sure your target can be connected at all?
2021-01-07T20:49:05 < rajkosto> what
2021-01-07T20:49:17 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: another thing to try would be to change the BOOT pin state temporarily. It should be possible to talk to it when it's in bootloader mode.
2021-01-07T20:49:42 < rajkosto> no difference i just have a "STM32 device in DFU mode" in device manager now
2021-01-07T20:53:41 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: hm, that's interesting, so you can reflash it with dfu-util now
2021-01-07T20:53:55 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: I suspect something happened to your SWD leads then.
2021-01-07T20:54:05 < rajkosto> except they work on stm32f103
2021-01-07T20:54:11 < mawk> so openocd doesn't work but st-link does?
2021-01-07T20:54:12 < rajkosto> same stlink, same wires
2021-01-07T20:54:57 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: but probably something else on the board is connected in parallel to swd or some other gotcha like that.
2021-01-07T20:55:36 < rajkosto> nah
2021-01-07T20:55:54 < rajkosto> https://stm32-base.org/boards/STM32F411CEU6-WeAct-Black-Pill-V2.0.html its this
2021-01-07T20:58:03 < mawk> and you have another stlink rajkosto ?
2021-01-07T20:58:17 < rajkosto> both do the same
2021-01-07T20:58:31 < mawk> ah
2021-01-07T20:58:34 < mawk> you have nothing else than stlinks?
2021-01-07T21:04:32 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210107_205940.jpg   how can i tighten that nut? :)
2021-01-07T21:05:20 < mawk> a squirrel with a tight jaw
2021-01-07T21:06:11 < BrainDamage> needle nose pliers
2021-01-07T21:06:27 < mawk> so that's your scope isolator?
2021-01-07T21:06:30  * mawk clones immediately
2021-01-07T21:07:02 < jpa-> mawk: no hope! i'll screw that nut so tight that you'll never see my components (they'll be underneath in the next revision)
2021-01-07T21:07:17 < rajkosto> whats up with the resistors floating on one side
2021-01-07T21:07:42 < jpa-> rajkosto: lots of iterations of changing components
2021-01-07T21:08:29 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/switchcraft-inc/P10091/SC1525-ND/1288614?cur=EUR&lang=en   is easier to tighten but paying 50 cents for a nut for a 50 cent connector seems silly
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2021-01-07T21:29:03 < zyp> Bus 029 Device 004: ID 28e9:0189 28e9 Composite Device  Serial: 䌳䩂
2021-01-07T21:51:24 < zyp> hmm, laks built fine for riscv after commenting out a bit of inline assembly, but I don't think I've got enough for it to actually run yet :)
2021-01-07T21:52:22 < zyp> I guess I'll have to replace the cortex-m vector table layout with something else :p
2021-01-07T22:00:22 < zyp> 19:09:37 < Steffanx> Whats happening to this work? Modern/recent compilers that function properly
2021-01-07T22:00:28 < zyp> … apparently not
2021-01-07T22:01:02 < zyp> some of the coro code chokes on some of the async code
2021-01-07T22:01:11 < zyp> works at -O0 but not -O2
2021-01-07T22:02:49 < zyp> but I'll track that down later, gonna see if I can get a blinky running on hardware first :)
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2021-01-07T22:15:28 < Laurenceb> hmm so much for lunix mint
2021-01-07T22:15:47 < Laurenceb> the shutdown/suspend dialogue box is unresponsive after wake from suspend
2021-01-07T22:15:55 < Laurenceb> killing it takes down the system
2021-01-07T22:16:00 < Laurenceb> epin fail
2021-01-07T22:16:38 < kakium69> sounds like linux life
2021-01-07T22:17:19 < Laurenceb> if I knew the process name maybe I could kill it
2021-01-07T22:17:31 < Laurenceb> but maybe it isnt a process its part of the desktop itself, I dunno
2021-01-07T22:17:36 < englishman> >killing lunix using any method except force-closing the vm
2021-01-07T22:17:41 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-07T22:18:03 < Laurenceb> too many processes arggg
2021-01-07T22:18:08 < Laurenceb> I cant see it in there
2021-01-07T22:18:31 < Laurenceb> this is stupid anyway
2021-01-07T22:18:31 < englishman> truly the year of the lunix desktop
2021-01-07T22:18:47 < Laurenceb> as I dont want to have to do this every time I wake it
2021-01-07T22:18:55 < mawk> you probably raped this system to the bone Laurenceb 
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2021-01-07T22:19:05 < mawk> then went on to blame linux for bugs
2021-01-07T22:19:13 < mawk> I know your method
2021-01-07T22:19:49 < Laurenceb> maybe the hall sensor deglitching is broken
2021-01-07T22:19:57 < Laurenceb> I'll try opening and closing the lid
2021-01-07T22:20:10 < Laurenceb> heres where I kill it
2021-01-07T22:21:35 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-01-07T22:21:43 < Laurenceb> suspend works on lid close
2021-01-07T22:22:05 < Laurenceb> maybe I can just leave the hung dialogue box over to one side so its waiting about 5 pixels
2021-01-07T22:22:11 < Laurenceb> the lunix way
2021-01-07T22:22:35 < Laurenceb> >permanently hung dialogue box on your screen forever
2021-01-07T22:22:40 < Laurenceb> the lunix desktop way
2021-01-07T22:23:27 < Laurenceb> looks like pressing suspend doesnt close the dialogue box but does leave it in some undefined state
2021-01-07T22:23:39 < Laurenceb> maybe they only tested it with shutdown lol
2021-01-07T22:25:23 < Laurenceb> cant find anything on search results grrr
2021-01-07T22:25:32 < Laurenceb> but I wouldnt know wtf to search for so...
2021-01-07T22:25:43 < Laurenceb> I dont even know what this box is called
2021-01-07T22:26:39 < Laurenceb>  "shut down this system now"
2021-01-07T22:33:29 < Laurenceb> wtf now I cant edit files
2021-01-07T22:33:34 < Laurenceb> what the fuck lunx
2021-01-07T22:36:28 < Laurenceb> this is some weird shit
2021-01-07T22:36:35 < Laurenceb> SMART data is fine
2021-01-07T22:36:42 < Laurenceb> maybe my ram has bit rot
2021-01-07T22:40:31 < Laurenceb> ok what the fuck
2021-01-07T22:40:42 < Laurenceb> >trying to edit any file in xed causes it to hang
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2021-01-07T22:46:59 < qyx> don't you want to use a less uncommon distro?
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2021-01-07T22:56:10 < Laurenceb> arggg fucking lunix
2021-01-07T22:56:20 < Laurenceb> why is memtest removed from grub menu
2021-01-07T23:06:56 < Steffanx> pebkac
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2021-01-07T23:29:30 < karlp> "this looks nice" https://wireless.murata.com/type-1pj.html
2021-01-07T23:29:35 < karlp> 100k orders required :)
2021-01-07T23:34:58 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a "common" or a recommended protocol that is used to communicate between MCU (st32l0 in my case) and an higher level SW app (C# in my case) over uart?
2021-01-07T23:35:28 < mawk> Laurenceb: look in dmesg
2021-01-07T23:35:32 < mawk> your fs is probably remounted ro
2021-01-07T23:35:35 < mawk> findmnt /
2021-01-07T23:35:42 < mawk> look at flags, does it say ro or rw ?
2021-01-07T23:36:09 < mawk> there is a protocol for transmitting files or binary stuff ColdKeyboard , yes
2021-01-07T23:36:46 < mawk> kermit, xmodem, zmodem, ymodem, whatever
2021-01-07T23:36:59 < effractur> modbus
2021-01-07T23:37:11 < ColdKeyboard> For example I assume ST-Link, J-Link, PicKit, Arduino etc. use a protocol to communicate between the desktop app and MCU. I'm just wondering if there is a standard or open-source protocol that is commonly used, since I intent do open-source my design... so a) I don't really want to reinvent something if I can use something that exists. b) if it's open-source and commonly used, it's easy to 
2021-01-07T23:37:12 < ColdKeyboard> create a plugin/app for new HW :)
2021-01-07T23:38:15 < effractur> but depends what you want to communicate / control
2021-01-07T23:39:19 < karlp> over uart, for makers, firmata is common...
2021-01-07T23:41:35 < ColdKeyboard> I basically have a hub with I2C devices. And basically need a SW to be able to probe the HUB and ask which devices it sees (ID, SN etc) and then also send msg to HUB "Set device X to Y%"
2021-01-07T23:42:04 < effractur> modbus i guess hten
2021-01-07T23:42:12 < effractur> or DMX :P
2021-01-07T23:42:29 < effractur> but a lot of options
2021-01-07T23:44:07 < ColdKeyboard> Ok, thanks for the suggestions. If there is a list or a page or a search term that I can use to explore these options, that would be very helpful
2021-01-07T23:44:09 < karlp> modbus is totally reasonable, but not very cool :)
2021-01-07T23:44:45 < karlp> but there's a massive pile of completely non-standrd adhoc shit
2021-01-07T23:44:53 < ColdKeyboard> In the past I used to develop my own protocols but that sucks if somebody else has to waste time to implement it in order to support your HW... I'm looking for as more open-source friendly way of doing this
2021-01-07T23:45:59 < effractur> ColdKeyboard: post of the protocols are quite specific for a specific situation
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2021-01-07T23:49:46 < ColdKeyboard> effractur Got it. I guess how would newbie find the one that is adequate for his situation? :)
2021-01-07T23:49:59 < effractur> ColdKeyboard: good question noclue tbh
2021-01-07T23:50:12 < ColdKeyboard> That's fair.
2021-01-07T23:50:14 < effractur> often wikipedia has some lists that of stuff that are in use
2021-01-07T23:50:20 < effractur> but not what is pupular etc
2021-01-07T23:50:30 < effractur> and there is often quite a bit of overlap
2021-01-07T23:50:39 < effractur> some protocols are like mostly used for home automoation 
2021-01-07T23:50:39 < ColdKeyboard> Currently I have my own that I made for debugging... basically send START CMD DATATYPE DATALEN DATA...
2021-01-07T23:50:52 < effractur> or in cars etc
2021-01-07T23:51:01 < effractur> but they do basicly the same thing
2021-01-07T23:51:14 < effractur> one could try to find out what most of the "commercal" stuff uses in the same field 
2021-01-07T23:54:30 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-07T23:56:31 < karlp> librecad is so weird.  fonts work in print preview, work when dragging, but not when stationary
2021-01-07T23:56:37 < karlp> just... absurd
2021-01-07T23:57:50 < ColdKeyboard> karlp: Well that's a.... drag :P
--- Day changed Fri Jan 08 2021
2021-01-08T00:00:04 < fenugrec> ColdKeyboard, there's a fair chance whatever you're going to do has been before more than once, check what protos they use and decide if you want to compatible with them
2021-01-08T00:04:49 < fenugrec> Steffanx, was it you that mentioned there was a docker thing for Inventree ? The only one I'm aware of hasn't been updated in a while
2021-01-08T00:05:25 < Steffanx> My source is Google ;)
2021-01-08T00:06:25 < fenugrec> cunning
2021-01-08T00:06:50 < Steffanx> September 2020 is recentish..
2021-01-08T00:07:26 < Steffanx> And idk what version it installs
2021-01-08T00:08:09 < fenugrec> I was just judging by the no-activity in the gh issues since sept
2021-01-08T00:08:54 < ColdKeyboard> Btw what are these protocols called? Embedded protocol, or IoT procol or is there some other name search/term that will give some results to poke around?
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2021-01-08T00:14:04 < karlp> very few people try to mmake up completely generic transports
2021-01-08T00:16:59 < mawk> any reason to choose uart over usb ColdKeyboard ?
2021-01-08T00:23:47 < mawk> ColdKeyboard wake up
2021-01-08T00:25:12 < mawk> don't use docker fenugrec 
2021-01-08T00:25:22 < mawk> don't give in to the singing sirenes of laziness
2021-01-08T00:25:42 < mawk> or you will lose any ability to install anything by yourself in a matter of weeks
2021-01-08T00:26:36 < mawk> or install stuff in virgin docker containers by yourself then commit them, if you want the "container" part of docker and not just the lazy part
2021-01-08T00:31:11 < fenugrec> mawk, I want to avoid having to learn py* venv and all that trash
2021-01-08T00:31:19 -!- c4017w [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-01-08T00:31:35 < fenugrec> I definitely want the lazy part
2021-01-08T00:31:42 < mawk> pip is lazy too
2021-01-08T00:31:46 < mawk> there's nothing to learn
2021-01-08T00:31:52 < mawk> just type the first command google tells you
2021-01-08T00:32:11 < mawk> and wtf using docker because you don't want to try pipenv
2021-01-08T00:32:33 < mawk> pipenv is infinitely lighter
2021-01-08T00:33:05 < mawk> using docker for a single python package is like having a dedicated house just for your washing machine
2021-01-08T00:33:14 < mawk> it's wasteful
2021-01-08T00:33:23 < fenugrec> bytes are cheap
2021-01-08T00:33:44 < mawk> disk maybe, but RAM and CPU not that much
2021-01-08T00:33:51 < mawk> and your time is valuable
2021-01-08T00:33:59 < mawk> docker is slower to start, and probably a bit to run
2021-01-08T00:34:16 < mawk> also it's super slow to install a docker container, downloading all the layers
2021-01-08T00:34:47 < fenugrec> I like the extra isolation. if I stop + remove the container , I don't have to go 10 rounds with pip / whatever to track down site-packages and files everywhere
2021-01-08T00:35:00 < mawk> pipenv does the same
2021-01-08T00:35:27 < mawk> it doesn't install system wide, it's compartmented in its own directory
2021-01-08T00:35:55 < mawk> venv too but pipenv is easier to use
2021-01-08T00:36:06 < fenugrec> never heard of pipenv. Another tool to learn !
2021-01-08T00:36:41 < karlp> pipenv is just a wrapper around "python -m venv .env && . .env/bin/activate && pip install blah" ? or is it somethign else?
2021-01-08T00:36:46 < mawk> the only one you will ever need
2021-01-08T00:36:56 < mawk> it started as a wrapper like that yes
2021-01-08T00:37:00 < mawk> but added many features
2021-01-08T00:38:02 < mawk> https://pipenv.pypa.io/en/latest/
2021-01-08T00:40:58 < karlp> makes special effort to say how well windows is supported, first thing it does is run python2.7 in fish shell on osx...
2021-01-08T00:49:35 < mawk> lol
2021-01-08T00:49:46 < mawk> fish shell is cool though
2021-01-08T01:10:09 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/cNaBTmb
2021-01-08T01:10:28 < Laurenceb> the worst thing they did inside the Capitol
2021-01-08T01:27:49 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/vhmNpIq
2021-01-08T01:27:54 < machinehum> the worst thing they did inside the Capitol
2021-01-08T01:28:47 < fenugrec> Impossible, that's not a 4:3 monitor 
2021-01-08T01:34:18 < englishman> fenugrec: https://i.redd.it/pb7tgbir5z961.jpg
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2021-01-08T02:04:40 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPdVXwBI35w finnish summer nights
2021-01-08T02:08:39 < zyp> I need to get better at organizing tabs: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rzgFN.png
2021-01-08T02:09:05 < zyp> or buy a wider monitor
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2021-01-08T02:18:05 < kakium69> if you just open those tabs you see 50% of them are completelly useless at the moment
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2021-01-08T02:23:14 < ColdKeyboard> mawk I'm using USB-to-USART on board converter
2021-01-08T02:23:31 < fenugrec> englishman, hahah wtf
2021-01-08T02:24:15 < fenugrec> zyp, you know there's a "back" feature on modern browsers - no need to open each page in its own tab !
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2021-01-08T02:28:18 < kakium69> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/984/756/55e.jpg
2021-01-08T02:32:31 < zyp> hmm, tried making a blinky for gd32v, using stm32f1 definitions for RCC and GPIO
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2021-01-08T02:32:35 < zyp> it doesn't blink :(
2021-01-08T02:33:07 < zyp> not sure where it's failing, haven't bothered figuring out jtag, just flashed the binary via dfu
2021-01-08T02:36:02 < zyp> apparently risc-v has multiple kinds of interrupt controllers; gd32v has an «ECLIC» that looks fairly similar to the NVIC
2021-01-08T02:36:10 < zyp> except the reset vector doesn't use that
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2021-01-08T02:45:34 < kakium69> I never bothered figuring out dfu, just flashed via jtag
2021-01-08T02:47:16 < zyp> it's not like dfu is much to figure out; just trigger the bootloader and call dfu-util to flash
2021-01-08T02:47:55 < zyp> way less hassle than figuring out how to jtag it
2021-01-08T02:49:21 < zyp> I mean, I expect openocd supports it with a ft2232 or something, so I just have to dig up a ft2232, a new enough version of openocd and what config stuff to use for it
2021-01-08T02:49:38 < zyp> but I'm saving that for tomorrow
2021-01-08T02:51:30 < zyp> PaulFertser, or how is it? I see there's a riscv-openocd fork
2021-01-08T02:51:39 < zyp> do I need that or is support merged back upstream?
2021-01-08T02:52:25 < zyp> probably not, since this is dated october: https://github.com/riscv-mcu/riscv-openocd/releases/tag/nuclei-0.10.0-14
2021-01-08T02:55:18 < qyx> hm I achieved 86% efficiency in TI webech simulator for that 230 V to 5 V flyback
2021-01-08T02:55:43 < qyx> and that's not including sync rectification
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2021-01-08T10:46:32 < karlp> machinehum: lol at templeos
2021-01-08T10:48:29 < karlp> zyp: lots of that fork laneded in october: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/5821/
2021-01-08T10:48:51 < karlp> there's more coming in, but the bulk of it is available now, so it could be in the "real soon now" 0.11 release
2021-01-08T10:49:39 < karlp> flash for gd32 is a bit further out: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/5839/
2021-01-08T10:51:16 < zyp> ah, so I'll want the fork unless I wanna run from ram
2021-01-08T10:52:32 < zyp> wait, are you an openocd maintainer now?
2021-01-08T10:53:20 < karlp> hell no
2021-01-08T10:53:25 < karlp> I just follow it a bit.
2021-01-08T10:53:37 < karlp> and I'll occasionally review incoming stuff if it's interesting :)
2021-01-08T10:53:50 < zyp> haha, ok
2021-01-08T10:57:37 < karlp> now, to sync shit from home to work laptop,
2021-01-08T10:57:46 < karlp> and it's all 3d files and shit, 
2021-01-08T10:58:00 < karlp> I wonder how many of these embed an dhow many use relative or fixed paths that are all going to be fucked up :)
2021-01-08T10:58:23 < jpa-> sync to same path
2021-01-08T10:58:34 < zyp> haha
2021-01-08T10:58:36 < jpa-> or symlink :)
2021-01-08T10:59:04 < zyp> reminds me that vivado uses fucking absolute paths
2021-01-08T10:59:33 < karlp> yeah, I normally just git commit and push, but some of this started a bit adhoc, going to be a bit of a mess and rebuild I imagine :)
2021-01-08T10:59:34 < zyp> installed it on file server, so when I wanna use it on another computer I need to nfs mount it at the same path
2021-01-08T11:01:05 < mawk> ColdKeyboard: you mean the one from the stlink?
2021-01-08T11:01:16 < mawk> you won't have a stlink when you get your board in "production"
2021-01-08T11:09:50 < karlp> re my shitty librecad mising text, apparently, that's because I was in "draft mode" which is the default, and there's been bugs reported on this since 2011.
2021-01-08T11:10:07 < karlp> apparently you turn draft mode off to see things, but turn it on normlaly for "speed"
2021-01-08T11:10:10 < karlp> fucking lunatics
2021-01-08T11:10:36 < karlp> multiple mentions in docs of "turning off draft mode to see things" and one very short mention that it's on to speed things up
2021-01-08T11:11:19  * PaulFertser got the first part of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine today. Just needed to go to the website and choose a free slot. Free.
2021-01-08T11:11:56 < karlp> is this sputnik5?
2021-01-08T11:12:45 < karlp> whole fucking tips and tricks doc about it, no mention of why it would ever not just do the right thing https://forum.librecad.org/only-empty-boxes-frames-are-shown-for-image-text-no-line-thickness-td5706737.html
2021-01-08T11:13:52 < PaulFertser> karlp: yes, Sputnik V (v the letter)
2021-01-08T11:17:27 < jpa-> karlp: what, you claim that a program could possibly render text in realtime?
2021-01-08T11:20:03 < karlp> I'm suggesting thatt, at least, it should showtext by default, and if they think they need a sppecial mode for making things faster, that should be something you turn on later maybe?
2021-01-08T11:20:20 < karlp> or, I don't know, anything other than this completely invisible, "hahhah, we're not showing you things"
2021-01-08T11:20:51 < karlp> bright side, they put "draft mode" in the title bar, so when I filed a ticket about it, it was promptly resolved
2021-01-08T11:20:54 < karlp> but.... why?!
2021-01-08T11:22:37 < jpa-> what version are you using? my 2.1.3 defaults to normal mode
2021-01-08T11:22:56 < jpa-> or hmm, actually it just remembers the mode
2021-01-08T11:23:48 < karlp> jpa-: well, draft is default out of the box, and I never knew to change it or touch it.
2021-01-08T11:23:49 < jpa-> defaults to normal mode with fresh config also
2021-01-08T11:24:07 < karlp> or at least, i've never believed to have touched it
2021-01-08T11:24:15 < karlp> have some covid humour instead https://youtu.be/BGnZgpgZcb8?t=715
2021-01-08T11:24:57 < jpa-> https://github.com/LibreCAD/LibreCAD/blob/aa5a427f5a860f52264e9897f3fbad8aa4632a78/librecad/src/main/qc_applicationwindow.cpp#L1499   should default to off
2021-01-08T11:25:21 < karlp> clean 2.2 from source must have kept something that got touched "somewhere" locally then
2021-01-08T11:26:04 < karlp> qcad is still better in everything though, no broken widgets, and actual keyboard shortcuts :|
2021-01-08T11:26:07 < jpa-> it's in ~/.config/LibreCAD/LibreCAD.conf  though apparently the draft mode can be stored in drawing also
2021-01-08T11:29:20 < zyp> karlp, by the way, what happened to that hardware test setup you were working on?
2021-01-08T11:31:22 < karlp> it's mostly working, just needs bolting tto a table and giving it a static ip
2021-01-08T11:32:26 < karlp> I never went further with the jig generation or 3d printing bits though
2021-01-08T11:32:42 < karlp> the current one just has to pplugged into some loose cables by hand.
2021-01-08T11:36:40 < zyp> ah
2021-01-08T11:38:08 < karlp> that was very interesting, but was quickly running off into "not a great use of my time right now" 
2021-01-08T11:40:14 < mawk> is your third arm growing yet PaulFertser ?
2021-01-08T11:40:49 < PaulFertser> mawk: no, and neither do I feel anything else unusual so far.
2021-01-08T11:46:13 < zyp> okay, I built openocd master with #5839 cherry-picked on top of it, so far so good
2021-01-08T11:46:29 < zyp> do I have to write my own config now, or is there already one I can use?
2021-01-08T11:47:00 < mawk> you're doing gd32?
2021-01-08T11:47:09 < mawk> you're cheating on ST
2021-01-08T11:47:09 < zyp> gd32v
2021-01-08T11:47:15 < mawk> yes gd32v
2021-01-08T11:47:39 < zyp> well, yeah
2021-01-08T11:49:02 < zyp> but it's so far the only risc-v asic I've got so far, and therefore seems like a more reasonable target for initial support than fpga stuff
2021-01-08T11:49:18 < mawk> it looks too much like STM32
2021-01-08T11:49:23 < mawk> I looked at the datasheet
2021-01-08T11:49:25 < zyp> especially since it's cloning stm32 peripherals
2021-01-08T11:49:29 < mawk> nothing new to play with
2021-01-08T11:49:31 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-08T11:50:13 < zyp> at the moment my goal is not to play with new stuff, the goal is to get laks to cleanly build for both cortex-m and risc-v
2021-01-08T11:50:38 < zyp> once I have that down, I can start adding more interesting risc-v stuff :)
2021-01-08T11:51:21 < mawk> so it's jtag programming
2021-01-08T11:53:34 < mawk> "no trace debugging" also
2021-01-08T11:53:42 < mawk> but I don't even know what that is so I guess I wouldn't miss it
2021-01-08T12:00:00 < PaulFertser> zyp: sorry, I do not really know the riscv support state.
2021-01-08T12:00:11 < zyp> that's fine
2021-01-08T12:00:23 < PaulFertser> zyp: it kinda is there but riscv upstream merges some parts every now and then, not sure how essential they are.
2021-01-08T12:00:47 < PaulFertser> And I'm not able to tell the state of the gd32v flash support either.
2021-01-08T12:00:50 < zyp> I'm about to find out if I can just find a working config for this
2021-01-08T12:01:05 < zyp> where in the source trees are the configs stored? :p
2021-01-08T12:04:07 < zyp> ah, under tcl, that should have been obvious :p
2021-01-08T12:37:21 < zyp> okay, according to gdb the code is running normally
2021-01-08T12:57:00 < dongs> lol openocd.
2021-01-08T12:57:07 < dongs> jlink worked nice with riscv last i tried
2021-01-08T12:57:12 < dongs> ozone supports debugging r-v too
2021-01-08T12:57:19 < dongs> i dont see any reason to use openocd at all for this
2021-01-08T12:58:35 < zyp> ah, forgot I have a jlink sitting here as well
2021-01-08T12:58:50 < zyp> doesn't matter, shit works
2021-01-08T13:00:06 < zyp> apparently it's .data init that's broken again
2021-01-08T13:01:00 < zyp> somehow &_data_rom is 0x80001e4, .data LMA in the elf headers is 0x80001ea
2021-01-08T13:02:24 < zyp> ah, no
2021-01-08T13:02:32 < zyp> right
2021-01-08T13:02:43 < zyp> it's because shit gets put into .sdata
2021-01-08T13:05:01 < karlp> was just abotu to say, sdata?
2021-01-08T13:05:12 < karlp> there's a pr on libopencm3 that buthcers the ld scripts with this sdata sbss shits
2021-01-08T13:05:48 < zyp> last time I dicked with riscv I solved it by setting -msmall-data-limit=0
2021-01-08T13:06:43 < karlp> is it for instrcution set range of data ops shit?
2021-01-08T13:06:59 < zyp> I'm not sure
2021-01-08T13:07:05 < zyp> probably
2021-01-08T13:09:30 < karlp> hr, I needed "attribue ((long_call))" shit for probably same reasons really,
2021-01-08T13:09:42 < karlp> for making functions in ram that could operate on flash
2021-01-08T13:10:39 < dongs> zyp hve you used ozone
2021-01-08T13:10:47 < dongs> i reckon its slightly more usable than gdb
2021-01-08T13:11:06 < dongs> proper full source code debugging/stepping/inspection and so on
2021-01-08T13:11:42 < zyp> yeah, I use it at work for the ti rm4 stuff
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2021-01-08T13:24:04 < zyp> anyway, blinky works, so now maybe I can just drop in the whole usb stack and have it work on the first try :p
2021-01-08T13:26:55 < Steffanx> Btw karlp you did this ble thing registration etc. Why you did this? Is this mandatory for a ble device?
2021-01-08T13:27:31 < karlp> required if you want to put BT marks on your devices, and in theory to sell a device with bt.
2021-01-08T13:27:33 < karlp> it's free,
2021-01-08T13:27:55 < Steffanx> Its seems bt qualification is non-free?
2021-01-08T13:27:56 < karlp> but even with using a listed module, you're still meant to pay a separate listing fee for your product using those modules.
2021-01-08T13:27:59 < karlp> yes.
2021-01-08T13:28:03 < karlp> I've not listed a product,
2021-01-08T13:28:16 < karlp> just went and did the "associate bt sig membership" hoop dance
2021-01-08T13:28:27 < karlp> and then requested to be assigned a number,
2021-01-08T13:28:32 < karlp> and we got like 0x999 or osmething rad.
2021-01-08T13:29:20 < karlp> https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/assigned-numbers/company-identifiers/
2021-01-08T13:31:14 < karlp> you only need a number if you want to private shits, and I thought I ight, so asked right away
2021-01-08T13:33:51 < mawk> is audio over ble a thing?
2021-01-08T13:34:05 < karlp> I would imagine it gets done, but isn't standard?
2021-01-08T13:34:17  * karlp is NOT a BT experrt in any way
2021-01-08T13:34:19 < mawk> ah
2021-01-08T13:34:45 < mawk> then it's normal that my headphones paired over BLE don't appear as audio sink
2021-01-08T13:34:53 < Steffanx> Im still not sure. Client wants this ble device, custom services etc. And I have no clue what fees/licenses/registrations are required
2021-01-08T13:35:31 < Steffanx> And a custom product. No module
2021-01-08T13:35:38 < mawk> lol why
2021-01-08T13:35:59 < mawk> it's more expensive and buggier that way
2021-01-08T13:36:41 < Steffanx> Because its even smaller than your dick... so tiny. Cannot fit a module onto the pcb
2021-01-08T13:37:26 < mawk> find a tiny module
2021-01-08T13:37:34 < Steffanx> Impossible.
2021-01-08T13:38:34 < mawk> what dimensions
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2021-01-08T13:40:30 < mawk> some modules are tinier than other
2021-01-08T13:40:51 < mawk> like the nrf module for smart dildos I have is really small compared to other rf moduels I've seen
2021-01-08T13:41:06 < mawk> and it does ble
2021-01-08T13:46:38 < karlp> Steffanx: my understanding is you have to pay the "full" listing thing, for like $5k or something
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2021-01-08T13:47:54 < karlp> there's some pretty insanely small btle modules from dialog and murata
2021-01-08T13:48:43 < karlp> ifyou signup with bluetooth sig, like the first week you'ðll get a bunch of welcome emails with "here's how to do the next thing"
2021-01-08T13:48:55 < karlp> and one of them is the "what steps are required for my new product listing"
2021-01-08T13:51:09 < karlp> https://www.bluetooth.com/develop-with-bluetooth/qualification-listing/
2021-01-08T13:52:42 < mawk> œ
2021-01-08T13:52:46 < mawk> oops
2021-01-08T13:53:10 < karlp> no 8k minimum unless you want to pay a few k a year to be associte instead of adopter level or something
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2021-01-08T14:06:10 < englishman> can confirm, paid the $8k
2021-01-08T14:06:26 < englishman> used a module too
2021-01-08T14:06:55 < Steffanx> Hw is already done anyway, nrf52 stuff
2021-01-08T14:07:36 < Steffanx> But space is a real issue. 
2021-01-08T14:10:30 < karlp> englishman: so you buy the "approved" dongle and run the profile tuning yourself? is that how that shit works?
2021-01-08T14:11:42 < karlp> basesus usb pd charger arrivd, looks nice. not sure what PD testing shits I have to verify what it can do though :)
2021-01-08T14:15:21 < Steffanx> Why you have a not listed product karlp? Its not being sold?
2021-01-08T14:18:37 < Sadale> Any idea on if ST-Link v2 (CN) is an official thing from STMicroelectronics? The seller Waveshare claims that both ST-Link v2 (CN) and ST-Link v2 (EN) are official. But I couldn't find any mention of EN/CN distinction on the ST's website. The funny thing is that the CN version's far cheaper.
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2021-01-08T14:22:38 < englishman> that cypress usb sniffer is a good purchase
2021-01-08T14:22:45 < englishman> it's multiplatform now too for you lunix nerds
2021-01-08T14:22:53 < englishman> of course that means now it has a shitty JAVA interface
2021-01-08T14:23:00 < mawk> CN is the official counterfeit maybe Sadale 
2021-01-08T14:23:20 < Sadale> mawk, lol that's what I thought. No way that ST's willing to sell cheaper for the Chinese market
2021-01-08T14:25:37 < karlp> Steffanx: I don't have a not listed product yet. the bluetooth bits aren't at all ready yet :)
2021-01-08T14:26:08 < karlp> englishman: which cypress one?
2021-01-08T14:26:43 < karlp> https://www.cypress.com/documentation/software-and-drivers/cysmart-bluetooth-le-test-and-debug-tool ?
2021-01-08T14:26:52 < englishman> https://www.cypress.com/documentation/development-kitsboards/cy4500-ez-pd-protocol-analyzer
2021-01-08T14:26:56 < englishman> no for pd.
2021-01-08T14:30:39 < karlp> is it any better than https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32g071b-disco.html ?
2021-01-08T14:31:17 < karlp> oh, not even the same.
2021-01-08T14:32:22 < zyp> the disco should be able to do much of the same
2021-01-08T14:33:09 < englishman> STM32CubeMonUCPD
2021-01-08T14:33:30 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-08T14:33:48 < englishman> i feel the creation of cool acronyms is a dying profession
2021-01-08T14:34:14 < zyp> I haven't bothered trying that, but I was planning to do my own analyzer-ish thing as a starting point for writing my own PD stack
2021-01-08T14:34:33 < englishman> taking a page from jadwe's book
2021-01-08T14:35:03 < zyp> nah, I just want to write a PD stack, and I figure receiver is a good starting point
2021-01-08T14:36:45 < englishman> karl i suppose it is better in the way that it existed 3 years ago
2021-01-08T14:44:20 < Steffanx> But once youre done and  sell it the bt organisation wants to empty your wallet karlp...?
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2021-01-08T15:30:20 < karlp> that's ok, we'll be selling them ahnd over fist and 8k will be chump change ;)
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2021-01-08T15:58:45 < PaulFertser> mawk: 7 hours post vaccination, feeling some pain in the injection area, body temperature elevated to 37.5 C, probably still raising atm.
2021-01-08T16:07:01 < Steffanx> Hah ok, karlp . Not really my issue anyway. The client is smart enough and they have to decide.. or have their legal department have a look.
2021-01-08T16:07:11 < Steffanx> They are big enough to have such department 
2021-01-08T16:07:41 < Steffanx> Ill just tell them to look into that
2021-01-08T16:11:37 < englishman> cool paul which stab did you get
2021-01-08T16:11:56 < englishman> healthy white canadians won't be getting it until mid-2022
2021-01-08T16:16:22 < Steffanx> Mid-2022 what year do Canadians live in englishman ?
2021-01-08T16:17:05 < Steffanx> And they say the dutch fucked up by starting like a week later than other EU countries 
2021-01-08T16:17:25 < Steffanx> They want it to be done by q 3 this year
2021-01-08T16:19:11 < effractur> hehe yea
2021-01-08T16:19:43 < englishman> steffy they are jabbing like 600/day here
2021-01-08T16:20:00 < englishman> and are cancelling the 2nd dose for people who got it last month
2021-01-08T16:20:16 < Steffanx> Cancelling the 2nd dose?!
2021-01-08T16:20:46 < Steffanx> Or did the Brits take all your injections
2021-01-08T16:21:22 < PaulFertser> englishman: Sputr
2021-01-08T16:21:26 < PaulFertser> Sputnik V
2021-01-08T16:21:29 < englishman> no, they decided not to keep the 2nd dose in stock and jab more people right away, while the suppliers pinky-swore the 2nd would arrive on time. 3 days later a bunch of hospital workers had their 2nd appointment cancelled
2021-01-08T16:22:23 < Steffanx> Lol better have a chat with your french named prime minister 
2021-01-08T16:22:39 < englishman> no, now there is a curfew. but all schools are back in session
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2021-01-08T16:26:10 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-01-08T16:26:22 < Laurenceb>  ""solved"" muh lunix mint issues
2021-01-08T16:26:22 < englishman> wow so Sputnik V was tested on only 38 people?
2021-01-08T16:26:44 < Laurenceb> the dialogue box and the hall sensor are deglitched and sanity checked
2021-01-08T16:26:47 < englishman> plus 76 in phase 2
2021-01-08T16:26:54 < Laurenceb> but the hall sensor works instantly
2021-01-08T16:27:23 < Laurenceb> and they didnt write the logic properly, so suspend gets triggered twice if you click suspend then close the lid within ~1s
2021-01-08T16:27:53 < Laurenceb> it screws up the dialogue box and all tasks that are running are unable to malloc when it wake
2021-01-08T16:28:02 < Laurenceb> *wakes
2021-01-08T16:28:22 < Laurenceb> typical lunix programming
2021-01-08T16:28:32 < englishman> lol, struggling with sleep in 2021
2021-01-08T16:28:46 < Laurenceb> ubuntu has an adjustable delay when the lid is closed
2021-01-08T16:28:58 < jadew> the USD keeps going down
2021-01-08T16:28:59 < Laurenceb> they ""simplified"" it on mint
2021-01-08T16:29:11 < jadew> it has been steadily declining since the elections
2021-01-08T16:29:17 < Laurenceb> also where the fuck are the scroll bar arrows
2021-01-08T16:29:26 < Laurenceb> I edited the GTK config but that didnt ix it
2021-01-08T16:30:05 < PaulFertser> englishman: no, there were ~50k trials after tha
2021-01-08T16:30:06 < Laurenceb> >simplify the desktop by removing scroll bar arrows
2021-01-08T16:30:15 < englishman> ah cool
2021-01-08T16:30:17 < Laurenceb> still better than unity desktop tho
2021-01-08T16:31:10 < Laurenceb> so if I close the lid even for an instant it suspends
2021-01-08T16:31:15 < Laurenceb> epin fail
2021-01-08T16:31:30 < PaulFertser> englishman: but probably the trials weren't performed as strictly as current standards require :( I guess it's fair to assume it's fully safe (as any other adenovirus vector vaccine) but the real efficiency is not known.
2021-01-08T16:31:39 < englishman> yeah i'd take it
2021-01-08T16:31:51 < englishman> but apparently only 14% of canucks agree with me
2021-01-08T16:32:05 < Laurenceb> Sputnik 7
2021-01-08T16:32:18 < englishman> i'd swallow a whole sputnik
2021-01-08T16:32:21 < Laurenceb> sheeet they got busted https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55586420
2021-01-08T16:32:25 < PaulFertser> It's V as in letter weee, not number
2021-01-08T16:32:35 < Laurenceb> >bugging their own office
2021-01-08T16:32:46 < Laurenceb> keeek they got a taste of their own medicine
2021-01-08T16:38:57 < mawk> you will probably not die PaulFertser
2021-01-08T16:39:04 < mawk> but light up a candle at the local cathedral just to be sure
2021-01-08T16:39:14 < Steffanx> Lock down...
2021-01-08T16:39:20 < mawk> not in russia
2021-01-08T16:39:22 < mawk> right?
2021-01-08T16:39:34 < Steffanx> Moscow idk 
2021-01-08T16:39:39 < mawk> sometimes the saleaeaeae logic analyzer can go up to 12 Msps easily, and now even 4 Msps is too high
2021-01-08T16:39:52 < mawk> I killed all my chrome tabs, there are not more usb devices plugged in
2021-01-08T16:39:54 < mawk> so I don't get it
2021-01-08T16:40:45 < jadew> Laurenceb, thought police is going strong in the UK I see
2021-01-08T16:41:11 < Laurenceb> its funny cuz they thought policed themselves this time round
2021-01-08T16:41:36 < mawk> Trainee Det Con Andrew Ferguson, who sent colleagues a fake pornographic image of members of the royal family, has been given a final written warning.
2021-01-08T16:41:41 < mawk> capital crime in UK
2021-01-08T16:41:48 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-01-08T16:42:46 < mawk> I already sent pictures of macron taking bbc in his behind to people
2021-01-08T16:42:48 < mawk> am I going to jail?
2021-01-08T16:42:59 < karlp> mawk: lsusb -t?
2021-01-08T16:43:06 < Laurenceb> lul prob mawk
2021-01-08T16:44:25 < jadew> it seems like every news story on the BBC is somehow linked to racism
2021-01-08T16:44:29 < mawk> karlp: https://paste.serveur.io/raw/wRVp2muD.txt
2021-01-08T16:44:38 < jadew> clicked on this, which was on the side: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-55578090
2021-01-08T16:45:31 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-01-08T16:46:12 < jadew> that last paragraph doesn't seem to have any link to the story
2021-01-08T16:47:00 < mawk> closing chrome doesn't fix it
2021-01-08T16:48:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yeah, the orthodox temples are not closed afaik, but I'm not going there in any case
2021-01-08T16:50:58 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/gmw10279/status/1347350836834410497
2021-01-08T16:51:00 < Laurenceb> lolllll
2021-01-08T16:58:01 < karlp> mawk: yep, looks like a modern laptop :)
2021-01-08T16:58:09 < karlp> so that's all the other shit you're sharing the LA with
2021-01-08T16:58:57 < mawk> BT isn't enabled, webcam neither
2021-01-08T16:59:06 < karlp> "enabled" ?
2021-01-08T16:59:07 < mawk> but also it was working yesterday without having plugged anything extra
2021-01-08T16:59:13 < mawk> maybe logic is lying to me
2021-01-08T16:59:26 < mawk> yeah, the controller is rfkilled
2021-01-08T16:59:35 < mawk> and the webcam isn't filming anything
2021-01-08T16:59:37 < karlp> well, it'spretty well known that actual bandwidth available is pretty inconsistent
2021-01-08T16:59:44 < mawk> so I assume nothing is transitting on the usb bus for the two of them
2021-01-08T16:59:58 < karlp> it's easy to use wireshark usbmon to check ;)
2021-01-08T17:00:02 < jpa-> my zenbook only did 24MHz with FX2 when i disabled USB3 in bios
2021-01-08T17:00:43 < karlp> like that sort of shit^^^
2021-01-08T17:01:03 < karlp> it's all over he place, if you want to reliably get 25 or so, you need the next level up of LA.
2021-01-08T17:02:17 < Laurenceb> heh memories of babbyshake
2021-01-08T17:02:30 < Laurenceb> I managed to use up full 480Mbps 
2021-01-08T17:02:48 < Laurenceb> turns out lunix will disconnect devices when you use up all the bandwidth
2021-01-08T17:02:59 < Laurenceb> but only after they have connected, which was annoying
2021-01-08T17:03:17 < karlp> like this sort: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000672345502.html
2021-01-08T17:03:19 < Laurenceb>  - it stops transactions, doesnt unmount the device
2021-01-08T17:03:57 < karlp> "logic 100Mhz" will find most of them
2021-01-08T17:04:09 < mawk> thanks
2021-01-08T17:07:32 < Laurenceb> https://img.youtube.com/vi/412JOQL5rcA/0.jpg
2021-01-08T17:13:41 < leite> wut
2021-01-08T17:18:38 < mawk> lol
2021-01-08T17:18:42 < mawk> leite meeting Laurenceb 
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2021-01-08T18:18:12 < Laurenceb> wew bongs dieing hard
2021-01-08T18:18:21 < Laurenceb> record infections too
2021-01-08T18:18:29 < Laurenceb> we're gunna get wiped out
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2021-01-08T18:34:01 < leite> *blushing*
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2021-01-08T19:27:58 < Laurenceb> keeek Pelosi
2021-01-08T19:28:35 < Laurenceb> >Trump is flying to Scotland on 21st so he can use the nuclear briefcase to nuke Washington
2021-01-08T19:28:40 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2021-01-08T19:28:46 < Laurenceb> prob true tho
2021-01-08T19:30:55 < Laurenceb> it would be highly memetic
2021-01-08T19:31:19 < Laurenceb> they should build a wall around Murica then broadcast it like a human zoo
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2021-01-08T20:11:26 < jadew> looks like they're trying to impeach trump, so he can't run for presidency in 4 years
2021-01-08T20:12:03 < jadew> that's why they want to impeach him in the next 2 weeks, regardless of the fact that he conceded
2021-01-08T20:16:31 < Steffanx> boring.
2021-01-08T20:16:35 < Steffanx> He'll be gone in 4 years
2021-01-08T20:17:16 < Steffanx> And even than, like its gonna happen. And even when it does, .. the yankees deserve it.
2021-01-08T20:18:23 < PaulFertser> 39.4 feels like SHIT. Paracetamol helps
2021-01-08T20:19:02 < jadew> catched wuflu?
2021-01-08T20:19:11 < PaulFertser> jadew: nope, sputnikv
2021-01-08T20:19:22 < jadew> you got the vaccine?
2021-01-08T20:19:47 < PaulFertser> The first part 11 hours ago, yes
2021-01-08T20:19:52 < jadew> nice
2021-01-08T20:20:11 < jadew> when will you get the second dose?
2021-01-08T20:20:27 < jadew> in here, they'll delay the second one, so they can give more people the first one
2021-01-08T20:20:32 < PaulFertser> 21 days later
2021-01-08T20:22:03 < PaulFertser> Apparently I have no immunity at all to Ad26, so got the full blast
2021-01-08T20:22:16 < jadew> what's that?
2021-01-08T20:22:29 < PaulFertser> Adenovirus used for the first vector
2021-01-08T20:24:20 < Steffanx> or you got really COVID-19'd :P
2021-01-08T20:24:24 < Steffanx> Just by some good luck
2021-01-08T20:24:26 < Steffanx> or bad.
2021-01-08T20:25:16 < PaulFertser> Haha, that's possible too. But I consider it unlikely. Plus there was some pain around the injection place some hours ago.
2021-01-08T20:28:43 < jadew> did you manage to interface with the included chip?
2021-01-08T20:29:18 < PaulFertser> :)
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2021-01-08T22:23:39 < qyx> he would need that 380 GHz wifi 8xe transceiver
2021-01-08T22:34:53 < Steffanx> I bet if they asked you, you would be able to fit a normal 5GHz modem on there... qyx  :P
2021-01-08T22:35:17 < qyx> re ac/dc psu and pcie shit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KJhSC/Screenshot_2021-01-08_21-34-07.png
2021-01-08T22:35:44 < qyx> mr putin will disappear you Steffanx 
2021-01-08T22:36:12 < Steffanx> Come on, you can fit anything on a too small pcb qyx  
2021-01-08T22:36:31 < qyx> wat
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2021-01-08T23:41:45 < Steffanx> Hah qyx. You usually manage to squeeze a lot of component on pcb ;)
2021-01-08T23:54:26 < invzim> new desk, such a PITA to set it up properly
2021-01-08T23:55:00 < invzim> muscle memory of where leads, tweezers, microscope etc used to be
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2021-01-09T00:15:19  * Laurenceb is wondering about how to protect sensors against lightning strikes
2021-01-09T00:15:56 < Laurenceb> if the sensor is ~70mm away from a cable that carries 10MA for about 250µs
2021-01-09T00:16:23 < Laurenceb> I guess several mm of copper and potting should give protection 
2021-01-09T00:16:35 < Laurenceb> but magnetic field will still leak through the shielding
2021-01-09T00:17:53 < Laurenceb> maybe the ESD protection diodes are essential here...
2021-01-09T00:18:22 < Laurenceb> as the ground plane will have next to no effect on the magnetic induction here
2021-01-09T00:22:43 < Laurenceb> hmm avionics must experience this porblem
2021-01-09T00:23:16 < invzim>  10MA, must be one thick cable :)
2021-01-09T00:24:53 < Laurenceb> it only needs to be <8mm diameter alu
2021-01-09T00:25:09 < Laurenceb> due to the short duration
2021-01-09T00:25:24 < Laurenceb> actually 10MA is peak, its not sustained for the whole 250µs
2021-01-09T00:25:42 < Laurenceb> but it gives tens of tesla
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2021-01-09T00:32:09 < invzim> I would settle for two
2021-01-09T00:33:54 < Laurenceb> hmm actually its prob not so bad
2021-01-09T00:33:57 < Laurenceb> maybe 5T 
2021-01-09T00:34:12 < Laurenceb> still nasty, it would leak through copper shielding
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2021-01-09T00:39:12 < qyx> maybe feromagnetic shielding helps?
2021-01-09T00:39:31 < invzim> how would you go about verifying it?
2021-01-09T00:39:55 < Laurenceb> qyx: feromagnetic shields saturate easily
2021-01-09T00:40:04 < Laurenceb> invzim: sounds like a fun challenge
2021-01-09T00:40:14 < Laurenceb> storm chase and rocket with cable maybe
2021-01-09T00:40:47 < englishman> just ban lightning
2021-01-09T00:40:54 < Laurenceb> keeek
2021-01-09T00:41:07 < Laurenceb> it oppresses and is patriarchal
2021-01-09T00:41:45 < Laurenceb> looks like you have to rely on ESD diodes for protection against the residual field...
2021-01-09T00:43:17 < Laurenceb> dey stole muh ideaz
2021-01-09T00:43:18 < Laurenceb> http://www.mhgopower.com/laser_pof_concept.html
2021-01-09T00:43:22 < qyx> were you planning sending a sensor to lightning without esd diodes?
2021-01-09T00:44:21 < Laurenceb> http://www.mhgopower.com/laser_pof_POF-WL240.html#lasertop
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2021-01-09T00:44:47 < qyx> thats old
2021-01-09T00:44:53 < Laurenceb> qyx: I mean I think you have to rely on ESD diodes to mop up the induced voltages in pcb traces
2021-01-09T00:44:53 < qyx> I made some research in the past
2021-01-09T00:45:16 < qyx> I was thinking I may power sensors over a POF fiber
2021-01-09T00:45:28  * Laurenceb is trying to work out how to instrument stratosolar tethers
2021-01-09T00:45:38 < qyx> and send data back over the same fiber
2021-01-09T00:46:21 < Laurenceb> single mode fibres are so narrow you could use two fibres for each sensor on a tether 
2021-01-09T00:47:38 < Laurenceb> wew rioters getting mass global b& from 8kun
2021-01-09T00:49:21 < Laurenceb> https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/street-style-bold-street-special-3395606
2021-01-09T00:49:32 < Laurenceb> can u guess who from that page b& them ?
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2021-01-09T01:01:17 < Laurenceb> ermmmm
2021-01-09T01:01:19 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/SneakyXavier/status/1347388571150397441
2021-01-09T01:01:28 < Laurenceb> possibly plausible
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2021-01-09T01:15:08 < qyx> Streaker: I keep adding components
2021-01-09T01:15:11 < qyx> nooo
2021-01-09T01:15:14 < qyx> Steffanx: ^
2021-01-09T01:19:52 < Laurenceb> qyx: how would you use a single fibre for each sensor? a 1x2 splitter?
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2021-01-09T01:29:25 < qyx> yeah
2021-01-09T01:29:42 < qyx> an asyymetric one
2021-01-09T01:30:02 < qyx> also, what would you like to sense?
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2021-01-09T01:38:39 < Laurenceb> orientation and internal pressure
2021-01-09T01:39:02 < Laurenceb> internal pressure to check that the tether is still pressurised with dehumidified air
2021-01-09T01:39:11 < Laurenceb> and orientation to allow untangling
2021-01-09T01:39:21 < qyx> we are using passive FBG optical sensors at $work
2021-01-09T01:39:44 < qyx> but idk if DC capable accels axist
2021-01-09T01:40:23 < Laurenceb> yeah those might be useful for monitoring deicing 
2021-01-09T01:42:09 < qyx> if you find a way how to measure them easily and cheap, we may become $$
2021-01-09T01:42:25 < qyx> that means without a 2000 € spectrometer
2021-01-09T01:44:01 < qyx> some hints: a couple of CWDM SFP modules, optical splitter, fpga, transmit 1010 burst, PDM demodulate different wavelengths from those SFP modules
2021-01-09T01:45:42 < Laurenceb> a tether only needs <20 sensors total, so just a bundle of 40 fibres would be no issue 
2021-01-09T01:47:06 < qyx> talking about fbg now
2021-01-09T01:47:14 < Laurenceb> yeah ok
2021-01-09T01:47:32 < qyx> but yeah, 40 fibres is not much
2021-01-09T01:47:39 < qyx> what diameter is the tether
2021-01-09T01:48:03 < Laurenceb> about 105mm cord by 11mm max width
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2021-01-09T02:14:08 < qyx> such ribbon?
2021-01-09T02:14:32 < machinehum> Anyone used Zephyr?
2021-01-09T02:15:05 < qyx> karlp tried, me researched, others idk
2021-01-09T02:30:31 < machinehum> Seems bloated
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2021-01-09T05:21:22 < Laurenceb> >I didnt buy shares in Parler
2021-01-09T05:21:24 < Laurenceb> reeee
2021-01-09T05:21:26 < Laurenceb> epin fail
2021-01-09T05:27:27 < emeb_mac> think Apple will shut 'em down?
2021-01-09T05:53:11 < Laurenceb> >using iphone lockedware
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2021-01-09T06:10:05 < Laurenceb> the woman that died at the capitol was a deepstate fake killing and that Trumps video message was CGI because Pence has him in a secret gay sex dungeon
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2021-01-09T06:46:16 < Laurenceb> MAGA is the 5th Degree in Satanism...
2021-01-09T06:46:16 < Laurenceb> The earth is flat...
2021-01-09T06:46:16 < Laurenceb> The Satanic Reptilian Pedovores controlling the earth and stealing our souls knows this...
2021-01-09T06:46:34 < Laurenceb> sheeettt
2021-01-09T06:46:41 < Laurenceb> parler is better than emdrive
2021-01-09T06:46:46 < Laurenceb> live action lulzposting
2021-01-09T06:47:12 < Laurenceb> MEGA: Make Earth Great Again
2021-01-09T06:47:22 < Laurenceb> shit why didnt I think of that one
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2021-01-09T06:48:44 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BZGGy9fZk4 god damn
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2021-01-09T06:50:21 < Laurenceb> Ben Garrison b&
2021-01-09T06:50:23 < Laurenceb> 8chan b&
2021-01-09T06:50:29 < Laurenceb> sheet its all happening
2021-01-09T06:51:11 < Laurenceb> lol Negative XP
2021-01-09T06:53:20 < Laurenceb> that was hitting some new levels of meta-irony
2021-01-09T06:53:56 < Laurenceb> parler: when you stop launghing and realise they actually believe the shit they are posting
2021-01-09T06:54:08 < Laurenceb> 0% irony
2021-01-09T06:54:29 < Laurenceb> I think this MEGA shit, might buy a hat for the lulz
2021-01-09T06:54:51 < Laurenceb> based Bill Maher
2021-01-09T06:57:35 < Laurenceb> ok back to wurk
2021-01-09T06:57:57 < Laurenceb> interdasting http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/In/0608.pdf
2021-01-09T06:58:13 < Laurenceb> >mu metal under copper to protect against lightening
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2021-01-09T10:04:44 < PaulFertser> If anyone's interested, had terrible headache during the night, took another paracetamol pill. That helped, slept through the night, feeling much better now, still 37.8 body temp in the morning though.
2021-01-09T10:04:48 < PaulFertser> Fun
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2021-01-09T10:17:35 < Streaker> the Russian vaccine is an inactivated virus vaccine isn't it?
2021-01-09T10:18:43 -!- sorki is now known as srk
2021-01-09T10:22:27 < PaulFertser> Streaker: it's nowhere close to being one, no
2021-01-09T10:22:44 < PaulFertser> Streaker: it's a typical adenovirus vector vaccine
2021-01-09T10:25:07 < Streaker> I did not know that. the press coverage has been mostly negative.
2021-01-09T10:26:18 < PaulFertser> Their PR was terrible, yes. As just about everything that the putin gang does.
2021-01-09T10:26:52 < PaulFertser> They also managed to screw up the third phase for whatever reason, so there's no real data about how effective it is.
2021-01-09T10:27:05 < PaulFertser> But at least there seem to be no reasons to think it's not safe.
2021-01-09T11:44:42 < jadew> I'm just learning about that, didn't know that adenovirus vaccine means that you're getting live virus
2021-01-09T11:44:59 < jadew> guess that explains the symptoms
2021-01-09T11:45:56 < jadew> I wonder how effective a subsequent vaccine would be, when based on the same adenovirus type
2021-01-09T11:46:33 < PaulFertser> jadew: "live virus" is an oxymoron, not sure what you mean really
2021-01-09T11:46:33 < jadew> could your immune system kill the vaccine before it has a chance to do create the proteins it needs to create?
2021-01-09T11:47:04 < jadew> PaulFertser, well, call it activated/deactivated if you'd like
2021-01-09T11:47:25 < PaulFertser> jadew: and yes, it's a known concern, probably the same vector can't be meaningfully reused for a while.
2021-01-09T11:48:26 < jadew> so I guess they slept on this and waited for the one time in a generation when they could use it
2021-01-09T11:50:18 < zyp> speaking of vaccines, did you guys read this? https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/
2021-01-09T11:50:39 < PaulFertser> There're plenty of suitable vectors, it's not a new technology.
2021-01-09T11:50:44 < zyp> read it a couple of weeks ago, pretty interesting
2021-01-09T11:51:01 < PaulFertser> zyp: agreed, and it was shared here already.
2021-01-09T11:51:34 < zyp> figured it'd still be worth a mention for anybody who missed it
2021-01-09T11:51:46 < PaulFertser> jadew: sputnik v vectors have no means of replicating themselves, that's for sure. Probably that's called inactivated, but certainly not "live" or "weakened".
2021-01-09T11:52:46 < jadew> PaulFertser, ah, I didn't know they don't replicate, the article I read made it sound like they're regular viruses, that just don't cause any issues and get flushed by our immune system in all of the cases
2021-01-09T11:52:57 < PaulFertser> zyp: yeah, that's a rather entertaining read
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2021-01-09T11:53:33 < jadew> I didn't see it before, so thanks
2021-01-09T11:53:36 < PaulFertser> jadew: instead of replicating they're just producing the sars-cov-2 spike protein. So there's an upper bound on how many you get.
2021-01-09T11:53:43 < zyp> jadew, enjoy
2021-01-09T11:53:54 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, makes sense
2021-01-09T11:54:14 < PaulFertser> (the cells where that vector gets control of are producing the proteins)
2021-01-09T11:54:58 < PaulFertser> Apparently current technology makes it possible to reliably mass-produce this vaccine for cheap.
2021-01-09T11:55:59 < PaulFertser> And for those who missed it, the research on what became sputnik v was ongoing for few years before SARS-CoV-2 appeared, as they were developing Ebola and iirc MERS-CoV vaccines.
2021-01-09T12:08:47 < rajkosto> why's everything russian gotta be called sputnik
2021-01-09T12:11:59 < PaulFertser> What was called sputnik before?
2021-01-09T12:14:43 < rajkosto> the first man made sattelite
2021-01-09T12:15:23 < PaulFertser> Do you impy the russians didn't create anything in-between? :)
2021-01-09T12:15:37 < rajkosto> the word just means "traveller" which makes sense for a sattelite
2021-01-09T12:15:39 < rajkosto> but why the vaccine
2021-01-09T12:18:17 < PaulFertser> It means "someone who travels together"
2021-01-09T12:18:33 < PaulFertser> Well, it's now a well-known word, like a cool brand I guess.
2021-01-09T12:36:37 < qyx> zyp: yeah good article
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2021-01-09T13:23:16 < Steffanx> That guy has many great articles (some are in dutch though)
2021-01-09T13:35:58 < jadew> just got a chance to read the article too, it's very good
2021-01-09T13:37:02 < jadew> it makes you want to get a DNA/RNA printer to play with it
2021-01-09T13:37:57 < jadew> it all seems like the early days of computing
2021-01-09T13:38:33 < jadew> when they were still using punch cards and were talking to the computer in its own language
2021-01-09T13:39:00 < jadew> but I bet they have higher level compilers too
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2021-01-09T13:50:16 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8UL14P-VNA Steffanx you like Moby for sure?
2021-01-09T14:46:28 < Steffanx> I could listen to that indeed  kakium69 
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2021-01-09T15:16:24 < jadew> I just realized google censors your history too
2021-01-09T15:17:11 < jadew> I was looking for a particular video on covid and couldn't find it in history, took me a while to remember the name of the channel, went to their videos, the video had the red bar at the bottom, showing that it was watched
2021-01-09T15:17:21 < jadew> if I searched for a keyword in the title, it wouldn't show up in history
2021-01-09T15:18:01 < jadew> also, it doesn't show up in the "my activity history"
2021-01-09T15:18:43 < jadew> the whole channel is ghosted
2021-01-09T15:18:56 < jadew> you have to get very specific with the search in order for it to show up
2021-01-09T15:19:44 < jadew> funny part is that it was all over my recommendations list back in January/February
2021-01-09T15:32:01 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-01-09T15:38:55 < qyx> zyp: don't you know a way of including a paragraph from another rst?
2021-01-09T15:39:30 < qyx> I mean the actual text, not just cross reference using :ref: or including the whole file using include
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2021-01-09T18:39:11 < emeb> attn. zyp: https://twitter.com/robbie_andrew/status/1347866954569232384
2021-01-09T18:40:58 < englishman> lol
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2021-01-09T18:42:07 < emeb> Love that rationale - keep breaking a law and eventually they exempt you from it.
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2021-01-09T18:52:29  * Laurenceb was reading avionic guidelines for lightening hardening
2021-01-09T18:52:46 < Laurenceb> turns out copper backed by electrical steel works really well
2021-01-09T18:54:35 < mawk> jadew: the DNA/RNA printer isn't really a printer
2021-01-09T18:54:36 < emeb> where is that used? skin of the aircraft? enclosures of the avionics?
2021-01-09T18:54:44 < mawk> you have to order "capsules" fro the company to print what you want
2021-01-09T18:54:48 < Laurenceb> enclosures
2021-01-09T18:54:59 < mawk> so probably if you order black plague dna it won't work
2021-01-09T18:55:15 < Laurenceb> emeb: also there are cable conduits with copper and mu metal foils
2021-01-09T18:55:40 < emeb> Laurenceb: what do they do for stuff like antennas? 
2021-01-09T18:55:50 < Laurenceb> hmm good question
2021-01-09T18:56:20 < Laurenceb> maybe spark gaps + more standard ESD hardening
2021-01-09T18:56:26 < emeb> gonna take more than a couple schottky diodes for sure.
2021-01-09T18:56:34 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-09T18:56:44 < mawk> a thousand schottky diodes
2021-01-09T18:56:48 < mawk> just put more and it's oi
2021-01-09T18:56:50 < mawk> ok
2021-01-09T18:57:02 < Laurenceb> MOV and stuff maybe...
2021-01-09T18:57:28 < Laurenceb> this is like my washing machine hardening project only a thousand times worse :P
2021-01-09T18:58:54 < Laurenceb> maybe there are "disposable" protection boards on the rf path
2021-01-09T18:58:55 < emeb> I used to design "avionics", but lightening wasn't an issue.
2021-01-09T18:59:06 < emeb> radiation was though...
2021-01-09T19:03:23 < benishor> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/QQ4UV3FL/image.png
2021-01-09T19:04:52 < emeb> yep
2021-01-09T19:05:23 < Laurenceb> worse...
2021-01-09T19:05:29 < Laurenceb> they could have installed gentoo
2021-01-09T19:05:37 < Laurenceb> tho I think that photo is a shooop
2021-01-09T19:09:07  * Laurenceb is wondering if it would be possible to install a magnetometer inside a shielded enclosure
2021-01-09T19:09:36 < benishor> sure, if the enclosure is made of aluminum
2021-01-09T19:09:44 < emeb> depends on what kind of shielding I suppose. mu-metal is probably a non-starter
2021-01-09T19:10:06 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-09T19:10:23 < Laurenceb> but some electrical steels seem have have low mu_r at low applied fields
2021-01-09T19:10:39 < Laurenceb> but I cant find good data on this :(
2021-01-09T19:10:43 < emeb> or a nice thick copper box.
2021-01-09T19:19:45 < Laurenceb> aha
2021-01-09T19:19:48 < Laurenceb> https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/doi/10.1201/b10979-4
2021-01-09T19:20:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/assets/9781439829523/graphics/fig3_19.jpg
2021-01-09T19:21:51 < Laurenceb> so it doesnt go to zero at zero field
2021-01-09T19:21:54 < Laurenceb> https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/assets/9781439829523/graphics/fig3_34.jpg
2021-01-09T19:22:09 < Laurenceb> also there is residual magnetisation in electrical steels
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2021-01-09T20:06:47 < mawk> I used the LA on the IC in which the RFM01 module was before to know how it was configured exactly, and it worked
2021-01-09T20:06:55 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210109190652365.png
2021-01-09T20:07:09 < mawk> I tried to reproduce result and I cannot get anything now, I think the cat sat on the IC or something
2021-01-09T20:07:32 < mawk> also on the board they interverted VCC and GND on the silkscreen, I was smart enough to verify it before
2021-01-09T20:07:57 < mawk> but now I know that it's 868.3 MHz center frequency with 67kHz baseband bandwidth
2021-01-09T20:08:07 < mawk> I won't have to bruteforce it
2021-01-09T20:09:05 < mawk> now I can receive weather from the outside
2021-01-09T20:21:55 < zyp> what about the weather inside?
2021-01-09T20:28:21 < Steffanx> it always sunny inside mawk's house since he's the sunshine in the house
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2021-01-09T20:29:16 < mawk> there is another sensor for that zyp but I won't use it
2021-01-09T20:29:22 < mawk> my house is always at 23°C
2021-01-09T20:29:24 < Steffanx> (doesnt make as much sense in english as it does in dutch, but who cares, mawk  is 50% dutch)
2021-01-09T20:29:27 < mawk> never more never less
2021-01-09T20:29:41 < Steffanx> "het zonnetje in huis", better learn that gezegde mawk  
2021-01-09T20:29:48 < mawk> gezegde yourself
2021-01-09T20:29:49 < mawk> don't insult me
2021-01-09T20:30:05 < Steffanx> bite me.
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2021-01-09T20:30:18 < mawk> bite means dick in french
2021-01-09T20:30:24 < mawk> I can bite you if you insist
2021-01-09T20:32:53 < Steffanx> no i cant, i tried.
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2021-01-09T20:34:44 < PaulFertser> So folks I'm still quite weak and body temp 37.5. Sputnik V is not for the faint of heart heh.
2021-01-09T20:37:32 < mawk> 37.5°C is the regular body temp no?
2021-01-09T20:37:34 < mawk> almost
2021-01-09T20:37:41 < mawk> but getting weak I guess is not the regular body state
2021-01-09T20:39:39 < mawk> I bought a ultrasonic cleaner
2021-01-09T20:39:45 < mawk> what can I clean now
2021-01-09T20:39:50 < mawk> does it remove flux from boards?
2021-01-09T20:39:58 < Steffanx> your bite, mawk 
2021-01-09T20:40:00 < mawk> :(
2021-01-09T20:40:10 < mawk> it would take too much time to dissolve
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2021-01-09T20:47:07 < PaulFertser> mawk: lol, not for regular people, no.
2021-01-09T20:47:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: anything above 37 is a warning sign.
2021-01-09T20:50:07 < mawk> receiver uses the totally standard speed of 2394 bauds
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2021-01-09T21:43:28 < mawk> yes I can receive data
2021-01-09T21:43:36 < mawk> I got my first fifo interrupt
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2021-01-09T22:18:19 < invzim> is there a magic trick to find a shorted smd cap on a board?
2021-01-09T22:18:37  * invzim haz no flir
2021-01-09T22:18:59 < rajkosto> douse it in alcohol
2021-01-09T22:19:08 < rajkosto> place it evaporates quickest is the cap
2021-01-09T22:19:12 < rajkosto> or just start touching them
2021-01-09T22:19:17 < rajkosto> youll get burned on one
2021-01-09T22:19:57 < invzim> yeah, that would normally work, but here there are a couple of IC's who doesn't really like the short either - i.e. they warm up everything
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2021-01-09T23:28:16 < kakium69> hello lunix
2021-01-09T23:31:52 < Steffanx> Gooday Winny.
2021-01-09T23:40:34 < mawk> I think I asked before, but for a gpio interrupt the only way to know if it was raising edge or falling edge is to read the pin after the interrupt right
2021-01-09T23:41:57 < PaulFertser> If you set to trigger on both edges
2021-01-09T23:42:07 < PaulFertser> But IIRC EXTI allows you to trigger only on specific edge.
2021-01-09T23:43:49 < mawk> yes I want to trigger on both edges
2021-01-09T23:43:55 < mawk> alright then, thanks
--- Day changed Sun Jan 10 2021
2021-01-10T00:00:25 < qyx> hm, iirc on both
2021-01-10T00:00:50 < qyx> oh, nvm
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2021-01-10T00:36:41 < qyx> I am experiencing difficulties while increasing pcb density
2021-01-10T00:36:48 < qyx> there is no free space left for vias
2021-01-10T00:38:19 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SxPLY/Screenshot_2021-01-09_23-37-58.png
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2021-01-10T01:23:03 < mawk> HAL_Delay consistently adds 1ms to the delay I provide
2021-01-10T01:23:06 < mawk> pretty odd
2021-01-10T01:24:15 < mawk> or else I am too stupid to measure it
2021-01-10T01:24:55 < mawk> a = __TIM_GET_COUNTER(); HAL_Delay(10); b = __TIM_GET_COUNTER()
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2021-01-10T01:25:17 < mawk> TIM has 79 prescaler with 80MHz base clock, and b-a is consistently 11000
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2021-01-10T01:29:47 < qyx> toggle a gpio before and after, measure with a scope
2021-01-10T01:40:10 < mawk> you think the timer think isn't precise enough?
2021-01-10T01:40:37 < mawk> timer has 1μs accuracy, and it says that hal delay adds precisely 1.000ms to the delay
2021-01-10T01:40:40 < mawk> thing*
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2021-01-10T01:49:16 < qyx> it is
2021-01-10T01:49:28 < qyx> but whats wrong, do you believe your code or hal?
2021-01-10T01:49:48 < qyx> is your delay wrong or you are measuring wrongly?
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2021-01-10T01:58:12 < mawk> I believe my code
2021-01-10T01:58:26 < mawk> it wouldn't surprise me that HAL adds a tick just for good measure
2021-01-10T01:58:41 < mawk> to be sure the actual delay is > the requested delay
2021-01-10T01:59:03 < mawk> I'll read the code
2021-01-10T02:02:45 < Laurenceb> adxl355 looks pretty pro
2021-01-10T02:03:00 < Laurenceb> order of mag better than st accels
2021-01-10T02:07:37 < Laurenceb> but it will break under repeated shock according to datasheet
2021-01-10T02:07:39 < Laurenceb> derp
2021-01-10T02:07:56 < Laurenceb> 357 has better shock resistance but worse performance
2021-01-10T02:08:08 < Steffanx> And a lot more expensive... (??)
2021-01-10T02:08:40 < Steffanx> 40 euro bucks for 1?!!
2021-01-10T02:09:18 < Steffanx> You should not crash your balloons Laurenceb 
2021-01-10T02:15:12 < Laurenceb> https://streamable.com/fapc84
2021-01-10T02:15:15 < Laurenceb> >fap
2021-01-10T02:19:16 < Laurenceb> https://vocaroo.com/1iBpwklLCCfd
2021-01-10T02:23:49 < sync> oh, vocaroo is still around?
2021-01-10T02:24:40 < qyx> I would not say order of mag better
2021-01-10T02:24:49 < qyx> Laurenceb: iis3dhhc check
2021-01-10T02:24:51 < qyx> that one
2021-01-10T02:25:17 < qyx> it is 5x cheaper
2021-01-10T02:25:36 < qyx> also ICM-42688-P
2021-01-10T02:27:11 < qyx> iis3dhhc has good noise perf but it is power hungry, around 2.5 mA
2021-01-10T02:27:14 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-01-10T02:49:11 < mawk>   /* Add a period to guaranty minimum wait */
2021-01-10T02:49:17 < mawk> like I said qyx 
2021-01-10T02:49:26 < mawk> HAL is adding a period for whatever reason
2021-01-10T02:52:48 < qyx> anyone familiar with ublox m8?
2021-01-10T02:52:58 < qyx> can I shutdown VCC while keeping VCC_IO powered?
2021-01-10T02:53:52 < qyx> As long as power is supplied to the u-blox 8 / M8 modules through the VCC_IO pin, the backup
2021-01-10T02:53:55 < qyx> battery is disconnected from the RTC
2021-01-10T02:54:10 < qyx> ok so thats one of the reasons I cannot keep VCC_IO powered
2021-01-10T03:25:22 < Laurenceb> yeah sounds like prob not a good plan
2021-01-10T03:25:35 < Laurenceb> I've used the m8 but never tried that with VCC IO
2021-01-10T03:27:41 < qyx> did you try any sleep modes?
2021-01-10T03:29:43 < qyx> is it needed to disconnect the power to save some uA at all?
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2021-01-10T05:54:26 < Laurenceb> oh my sides
2021-01-10T05:54:28 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55606044
2021-01-10T05:54:35 < Laurenceb> he cant keep getting away with it
2021-01-10T05:54:41 < Laurenceb> Sam Hyde did it again
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2021-01-10T11:33:57 < Steffanx> The reason why ST does that is pretty abvious right mawk?
2021-01-10T11:34:31 < Steffanx> They just want the delay not be shorter than your specified timd
2021-01-10T11:47:57 < zyp> are you asking «sleep at least this long» or «sleep at most this long»?
2021-01-10T11:48:26 < zyp> in the latter case they could just return immediately, and in the former case they want to be sure they do as promised
2021-01-10T11:49:06 < Steffanx> Yes...
2021-01-10T11:49:14 < karlp> if the implementation is just "whatyou asked for plus 1" that's pretty dymb though,
2021-01-10T11:50:06 < zyp> if you're at tick 123.000 or 123.999 and asks to sleep one tick, it's natural to sleep to tick 125
2021-01-10T11:50:59 < karlp> but it just means people will ask for n-1 by practice to get what they actually wanted in most cases.
2021-01-10T11:51:22 < Steffanx> And then cry when it doesnt work sometimes 
2021-01-10T11:51:22 < karlp> it's only useful for the very short ones that might be too short and to avoid waiting for a wrap
2021-01-10T11:51:41 < zyp> what you actually want depends on what rounding you expect
2021-01-10T11:51:48 < karlp> Steffanx: sure
2021-01-10T11:52:02 < karlp> but I'd expect docs from hal that says what it does right? :)
2021-01-10T11:52:14 < Steffanx> And then you hope they learn they should not use the delay function in that case
2021-01-10T11:52:51 < zyp> if your timer has a 1ms granularity, there will always be a 1ms uncertainty depending on where in the current tick you start the sleep
2021-01-10T11:54:10 < zyp> and when you're asking for a x ms delay, it's generally more useful to get [x, x+1> ms than <x-1, x] ms
2021-01-10T11:55:54 < zyp> if you need it more accurately than ±1ms, you need a timer with better granularity anyway
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2021-01-10T12:54:27 < zyp> trying to work with this gd32v feels a bit like the dark ages before there were decent tools for stm32 and you had a kinda halfway working texane/stlink
2021-01-10T12:55:22 < zyp> when you can't trust the debugger and never really know whether the target is halted or running, and whether it's resetting properly when it's supposed to
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2021-01-10T13:04:55 < PaulFertser> zyp: is that with riscv fork?
2021-01-10T13:09:39 < zyp> no, latest master as of a few days ago, with the stm32v flash patch applied on top
2021-01-10T13:11:24 < PaulFertser> zyp: Tim Newsome who maintains the riscv fork seems to be a competent engineer, and he sends patches upstream in a reasonable way, but I'd expect his fork to be more advanced than the current upstream master stage.
2021-01-10T13:14:51 < antto> i got some audio out of this thing https://i.imgur.com/Rgm92tB.png
2021-01-10T13:15:23 < antto> but the second half of each repetition is not what it should be
2021-01-10T13:15:32 < PaulFertser> antto: is that from your cortex-m project finally?
2021-01-10T13:15:37 < antto> yes
2021-01-10T13:15:40 < PaulFertser> Yay
2021-01-10T13:16:22 < antto> i can't figure out wtf's wrong with the double buffering, one of the buffers comes out as junk
2021-01-10T13:16:30 < PaulFertser> Good to hear you're finally getting it going.
2021-01-10T13:16:56 < antto> i'm thinking to ask microsh*t support
2021-01-10T13:17:01 < antto> ;P~
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2021-01-10T13:41:11 < zyp> I saw jlink got support for gd32v, so I figured I'd listen to dongs and give ozone a try
2021-01-10T13:41:18 < zyp> «Connection failed.»
2021-01-10T13:41:49 < zyp> not very informative
2021-01-10T13:42:42 < antto> speaking of debugg0rz
2021-01-10T13:43:14 < zyp> oh wait, maybe it's because I'm missing VTref
2021-01-10T13:43:32 < antto> is it normal that when i run the debugger (or gdb, i don't know who's doing what), the IDE teleports me to some quasi-random line of code?
2021-01-10T13:44:16 < antto> there's no breakpoint there, the exact line it jumps to changes from time to time
2021-01-10T13:44:56 < zyp> if you attach to a running target, you interrupt whatever it was doing when you attached
2021-01-10T13:45:43 < zyp> ah, right, it was VTref
2021-01-10T13:45:45 < antto> my programmer is permanently attached to the board, coz i also have debug UART going via the same port (remember i used the stupid STDC14 port)
2021-01-10T13:46:01 < qyx> am I safe to repurpose SWD for LED outputs?
2021-01-10T13:46:05 < zyp> by attach I mean logically, not physically
2021-01-10T13:46:17 < antto> ahumz
2021-01-10T13:46:25 < antto> i press "Debug/Continue"
2021-01-10T13:46:58 < antto> so it's normal then
2021-01-10T13:48:30 < zyp> uh
2021-01-10T13:48:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/joG8G.png
2021-01-10T13:48:43 < zyp> not sure this is any more useful
2021-01-10T13:49:18 < zyp> also not sure what that «other than 0» is about
2021-01-10T13:49:30 < antto> dafuq is "hart"
2021-01-10T13:49:35 < zyp> hardware thread
2021-01-10T13:52:03 < antto> when i press Debug/Continue, it first flashes the firmware then it sits and waits and i have to press Continue again.. this is the other annoying thing
2021-01-10T13:52:14 < zyp> i.e. it can refer both to independent cores or cores that share resources like hyperthreading, or even each register set in a barrel processor implementation
2021-01-10T13:59:34 < qyx> yolo https://bin.jvnv.net/file/l6c72/Screenshot_2021-01-10_12-59-01.png
2021-01-10T14:03:46 < qyx> can I use any GPIO for USB VBUS detection?
2021-01-10T14:04:10 < antto> qyx, you wanna see the debugging as photons?
2021-01-10T14:04:15 < qyx> too many questions and too many things to screw up
2021-01-10T14:04:21 < antto> 1k .. i put 10k on such things
2021-01-10T14:04:54 < qyx> I want to see those leds
2021-01-10T14:04:55 < antto> but i have access to these uber bright and uber cheap 0805 LEDs at my obscure distributor
2021-01-10T14:05:40 < antto> https://store.comet.bg/en/Catalogue/Product/44044/
2021-01-10T14:20:33 < antto> if i wanna have a flag that i set in an interrupt, and then i wanna poll it in main and clear it - wut should i do? volatile? turn interrupts off before checking it in main?
2021-01-10T14:26:02 < Lux> just volatile should be fine
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2021-01-10T14:32:46 < zyp> turning off interrupts wouldn't help at all
2021-01-10T14:33:23 < zyp> qyx, what part?
2021-01-10T14:34:24 < zyp> qyx, only dwc_otg-based parts have hardware vbus detection, on other parts it's not a part of the usb hardware at all, so if you still need it you could just use any 5V tolerant IO
2021-01-10T14:39:58 < zyp> ah, j-link just needed a firmware update, was still running one from 2017
2021-01-10T14:40:21 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-10T14:42:49 < qyx> wait waht, L451 has NO usb at all
2021-01-10T14:42:58 < qyx> the fuk is that
2021-01-10T14:43:24 < qyx> so now the whole pcb is drawn and I find out the mcu has no usb
2021-01-10T14:44:07 < Steffanx> so fine the drop in replacement 432 version?
2021-01-10T14:44:11 < qyx> what the hell did I copy the symbol from
2021-01-10T14:44:20 < Steffanx> i mean whatever the dropin replacement is
2021-01-10T14:44:21 < qyx> 452 maybe is the right part
2021-01-10T14:44:32 < zyp> hmm, shit's still going off and doing shit out in the middle of nowhere
2021-01-10T14:44:33  * qyx clicking st.com furiously
2021-01-10T14:45:16 < zyp> ah, maybe I should actually add the fault vectors so I can trap them instead of letting them point randomly :p
2021-01-10T14:47:27 < qyx> it is a USB 2.0 full-speed crystal less solution
2021-01-10T14:47:28 < qyx> with LPM and BCD
2021-01-10T14:47:36 < qyx> doesn't sound as otg
2021-01-10T14:48:18 < zyp> nah, that's v2 of the simple core, it doesn't care about VBUS
2021-01-10T14:48:57 < zyp> you might want to detect it by GPIO so you can turn shit off when USB is disconnected
2021-01-10T14:49:22 < zyp> and in theory you're also supposed to not present voltages on the bus unless VBUS is present
2021-01-10T14:49:26 < zyp> but otherwise it's not necessary
2021-01-10T14:50:20 < qyx> I connected a random GPIO (PA4) to the HUB output port control pin
2021-01-10T14:50:24 < qyx> should be enough
2021-01-10T14:50:38 < qyx> to detect when the hub wants to output VBUS
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2021-01-10T17:23:35 < qyx> hm, full QFNs are evil
2021-01-10T17:32:34 < Steffanx> no
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2021-01-10T17:44:48 < mawk> please decode this format for me https://paste.serveur.io/raw/jmu7dZFg.txt thanks
2021-01-10T17:45:26 < englishman> it looks like hex
2021-01-10T17:47:28 < fenugrec> mawk, UDS / iso14230 possibly
2021-01-10T17:48:13 < fenugrec> eh maybe not. length doesn<t work
2021-01-10T17:49:41 < mawk> lol englishman 
2021-01-10T17:49:48 < mawk> I'm looking for a crc in it fenugrec 
2021-01-10T17:49:50 < mawk> or a checksum
2021-01-10T17:49:53 < fenugrec> last byte
2021-01-10T17:49:55 < mawk> I decoded some bytes
2021-01-10T17:50:10 < mawk> I decoded all but the first and last
2021-01-10T17:50:13 < fenugrec> use reveng / pycrc + bruteforce
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2021-01-10T17:50:58 < mawk> 66 10 00 E8 25 is {66, 10, 0, 0E8, 25} = {random boot id, battery status?, channel, temperature, humidity}
2021-01-10T17:51:05 < mawk> I used pycrc and bruteforce already
2021-01-10T17:51:07 < Laurenceb> keeeek wtf
2021-01-10T17:51:09 < Laurenceb> https://www.abelectronics.co.uk/kb/article/1035/raspberry-pi-3--4-and-zero-w-serial-port-usage
2021-01-10T17:51:43 < fenugrec> dont forget to check for reversed bits in/out and xor-output
2021-01-10T17:51:56 < mawk> reversed bits like ^0xFF ?
2021-01-10T17:52:29 < fenugrec> no like "in what order are the bits processed", and "is the CRC residue reversed", like 0x68 => 0x16
2021-01-10T17:52:45 < fenugrec> but yes inversion too
2021-01-10T17:53:17 < jpa-> there appears to be a parity bit in the first byte bottom bit
2021-01-10T17:53:25 < mawk> yes jpa- I thought that too
2021-01-10T17:53:59 < mawk> maybe it's just a parity bit then, and no crc, and they count on having a burst of 8 messages with message id 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 to confirm messages
2021-01-10T17:55:04 < mawk> maybe then if I >> 1 the first byte it will be a crc, but then I don't know what the last byte it, maybe garbage
2021-01-10T17:55:11 < mawk> but it doesn't look like garbage
2021-01-10T17:55:19 < mawk> read bytes: C3 66 10 10 E9 26 47
2021-01-10T17:55:21 < mawk> read bytes: C3 66 10 20 E9 26 48
2021-01-10T17:55:23 < mawk> like these two
2021-01-10T17:55:32 < mawk> goes from 47 to 48 when some byte goes from 10 to 20
2021-01-10T17:55:45 < fenugrec> last byte looks a lot like a crc, not a simple sum
2021-01-10T17:55:47 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/E3n/plain    last byte is some kind of linear checksum (like CRC) of the data without the first byte
2021-01-10T17:56:07 < fenugrec> ^ 
2021-01-10T17:56:27 < mawk> ah nice find jpa- thanks
2021-01-10T17:56:46 < mawk> I'll play with thar
2021-01-10T17:56:48 < mawk> t
2021-01-10T17:57:58 < jpa-> you can build a map of which input bit changes which of the checksum bits, and from that you can figure out the algorithm
2021-01-10T17:58:29 < mawk> yes
2021-01-10T18:00:36 < mawk> so {random packet id, parity bit, random boot id, battery indicator, channel, pacekt id, temperature, humidity, crc}
2021-01-10T18:01:00 < mawk> actually I'm not sure about the random packet id, it doesn't seem that random; but it's not the important part
2021-01-10T18:01:18 < mawk> maybe just garbage left over from the synchronization word
2021-01-10T18:04:57 < jpa-> it could also be various status bits
2021-01-10T18:05:56 < Laurenceb> loll tinkerboard btfo's rpi for uart
2021-01-10T18:06:04 < Laurenceb> everything pwns rpi
2021-01-10T18:06:14 < mawk> spi too probably
2021-01-10T18:06:43 < jpa-> hmm, "C3 66 10 10 E9 26 47" "C3 66 10 20 E9 26 48" and "82 66 10 10 E8 25 D6" "82 66 10 20 E8 25 D9"   don't match the checksum hypothesis
2021-01-10T18:07:03 < mawk> even if you don't add the first byte to it?
2021-01-10T18:07:12 < jpa-> either the checksum is non-linear or it includes part of the first byte
2021-01-10T18:07:22 < mawk> ah yes
2021-01-10T18:07:46 < jpa-> same two bits change on input but different bits change in output
2021-01-10T18:08:14 < mawk> it could also be bad data, I'm not sure how reliable this radio thing is
2021-01-10T18:08:19 < mawk> given the long wires and so on
2021-01-10T18:08:25 < mawk> and the cat sitting on the antenna
2021-01-10T18:08:56 < jpa-> that's possible, because many of the other rows match
2021-01-10T18:09:20 < mawk> probably that's why they send each packet 8 times to be sure
2021-01-10T18:10:46 < jpa-> uh no, actually that row matches also, i just fail computing XOR in my head
2021-01-10T18:11:28 < mawk> lol
2021-01-10T18:14:16 < mawk> also it says "DCF" behind the transmitter, but I doubt it's DCF77, there are not enough bytes for indicating time in that packet
2021-01-10T18:15:10 < Steffanx> You didnt receive such package yet
2021-01-10T18:15:21 < mawk> which package
2021-01-10T18:17:14 < Steffanx> The dcf package 
2021-01-10T18:17:27 < mawk> I did not order such thing
2021-01-10T18:17:45 < Steffanx> Ok, packet man 😛
2021-01-10T18:17:56 < Steffanx> Thanks mawk
2021-01-10T18:18:24 < mawk> there are no dcf packets I think
2021-01-10T18:18:36 < mawk> dcf transmits every second or minute or something right
2021-01-10T18:19:29 < Steffanx> Didnt you open it up yet?
2021-01-10T18:19:38 < Steffanx> The package.
2021-01-10T18:21:42 < mawk> I haven't received anything
2021-01-10T18:21:44 < mawk> it's sunday
2021-01-10T18:23:36 < Steffanx> They do arrive on sunday
2021-01-10T18:24:02 < mawk> poor delivery guys
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2021-01-10T18:46:26 < Steffanx> But I meant if you opened up the transmitter mawk 
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2021-01-10T18:56:00 < mawk> ah Steffanx 
2021-01-10T18:56:03 < mawk> it's a sealed enclosure
2021-01-10T18:56:07 < mawk> I cannot open it without destroying
2021-01-10T18:57:51 < Steffanx> Aha
2021-01-10T18:58:02 < mawk> so I can only analyze what it's saying
2021-01-10T19:11:52 < Steffanx> Ah
2021-01-10T19:12:09 < Laurenceb> A STORM IS COMING!!!1!W1GWAG
2021-01-10T19:20:13 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-10T19:21:05 < Steffanx> Is Laurenceb alright? Do you know?
2021-01-10T19:21:36 < Laurenceb> just channeling my inner qtard
2021-01-10T19:22:12 < mawk> WWG1WGA*
2021-01-10T19:22:45 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-01-10T19:22:53 < Laurenceb> I cant even qtard correctly
2021-01-10T19:23:40 < Laurenceb> WIGIMMB
2021-01-10T19:23:52 < Laurenceb> Where I Go Is My Mums Basement
2021-01-10T19:30:31 < Steffanx> Are you sure its your inner qtard Laurenceb ? its prettyyy much on the surface
2021-01-10T19:30:54 < Laurenceb> only the tard part
2021-01-10T19:37:00 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b102@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-01-10T19:45:51 < zyp> haha, fuck
2021-01-10T19:45:59 < zyp> found one of my riscv issues
2021-01-10T19:46:42 < emeb> ?
2021-01-10T19:46:53 < zyp> so, the first thing my reset vector does is «la sp, _ram_end»
2021-01-10T19:47:19 < zyp> effectively «la sp, 0x20008000»
2021-01-10T19:48:23 < zyp> this is a meta-instruction and translates to «auipc sp, 0x18008» which effectively means «sp = pc + (0x18008 << 12)»
2021-01-10T19:48:52 < zyp> which makes sense, since start of flash is 0x8000000 and all
2021-01-10T19:49:58 < zyp> the problem is that out of reset, cpu starts executing at pc=0, where the flash is aliased, and ends up doing sp = 0x18008000 instead
2021-01-10T19:50:09 < zyp> no wonder shit is behaving weird
2021-01-10T19:50:11 < emeb> oops
2021-01-10T19:50:39 < zyp> and it only started behaving weird once I tried to do something more complex than a blinky, because apparently my blinky doesn't even need the stack
2021-01-10T19:51:36 < emeb> so how do you fix it?
2021-01-10T19:52:40 < PaulFertser> By setting VMA/LMA for the .text section to 0?
2021-01-10T19:54:09 < PaulFertser> Or probably LMA should stay for "load" to work without additional aliases for flash in debugger config?
2021-01-10T19:55:34 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/#post-5155914
2021-01-10T19:56:58 < zyp> I'd rather not touch VMA/LMA, I figure the sane way is to issue an absolute jump to get it onto real flash addr before it starts using pc in calculations
2021-01-10T19:58:20 < PaulFertser> It sounds sane but how exactly is it better than making the linker aware of the real address the code is executed from?
2021-01-10T19:58:30 < emeb> seems sensible. so the la sp, _ram_end is not the first instr at the vector
2021-01-10T19:58:38 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-10T19:58:39 < PaulFertser> I honestly do not understand.
2021-01-10T19:59:17 < emeb> basically get out of the aliased region before doing anything else
2021-01-10T19:59:34 < zyp> PaulFertser, I'd rather not complicate the linker script unecessarily
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2021-01-10T20:00:08 < zyp> and I want all code to run from 0x8000000
2021-01-10T20:00:11 < PaulFertser> I wonder when it's going to make a practical difference.
2021-01-10T20:00:19 < zyp> for what?
2021-01-10T20:00:43 < PaulFertser> For anything :)
2021-01-10T20:00:55 < zyp> setting VMA to 0 for the entire .text means you can't e.g. change the alias remap if you ever need to do that
2021-01-10T20:00:58 < PaulFertser> I might be still slow post vaccination, beg your pardon
2021-01-10T20:01:18 < mawk> you need my upper cocktail PaulFertser 
2021-01-10T20:01:26 < mawk> just point me your favorite vein
2021-01-10T20:01:44 < zyp> anyway, number one is that I don't want to special case the linker script
2021-01-10T20:04:03 < PaulFertser> The linker script is inherently target specific though. So if this target is always running flash code from 0 then it's not a special case. So my question I guess is in what case you might want to disable it.
2021-01-10T20:04:29 < zyp> separate LMA/VMA is a special case that nothing else needs :)
2021-01-10T20:07:00 < PaulFertser> That's a point I can understand.
2021-01-10T20:07:04 < PaulFertser> Thank you.
2021-01-10T20:08:13 < zyp> I mean, stm32 is no different really, vector table is located at 0x800000 but reset vector is loaded from 0x0
2021-01-10T20:08:49 < zyp> it's just that on cortex-m the reset vector is an absolute address, pointing back to entry symbol in 0x800xxxx
2021-01-10T20:09:17 < zyp> on riscv, reset vector is an instruction
2021-01-10T20:11:29 < PaulFertser> Like on older ARMs
2021-01-10T20:11:35 < zyp> yes
2021-01-10T20:11:49 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-10T20:12:08 < PaulFertser> So it should jump to your VMA then as the first instruction.
2021-01-10T20:12:15 < zyp> correct
2021-01-10T20:13:02 < zyp> jump instruction is also relative though :)
2021-01-10T20:24:32 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eTCUF <- this works
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2021-01-10T20:32:52 < zyp> hmm, peripherals are not a perfect match to stm32f1
2021-01-10T20:33:21 < zyp> stm32f1 got USB on APB1, gd32vf1 got USB on AHB
2021-01-10T20:34:32 < zyp> wait, wat
2021-01-10T20:34:49 < zyp> it got a dwc_otg core
2021-01-10T20:35:00 < mawk> you don'tlike it?
2021-01-10T20:35:11 < zyp> just surprised
2021-01-10T20:44:32 < zyp> ha, nice, it enumerated
2021-01-10T20:45:12 < mawk> you're a magician zyp 
2021-01-10T20:45:18 < mawk> usb is incomprehensibly complex to me
2021-01-10T20:45:26 < mawk> and in 10 minutes it enumerates
2021-01-10T20:45:35 < Steffanx> you are over thinking it mawk 
2021-01-10T20:45:48 < mawk> noo
2021-01-10T20:45:54 < zyp> well, I already wrote the driver
2021-01-10T20:46:01 < mawk> I am thinking the exact proportion of thought required
2021-01-10T20:46:03 < mawk> ah
2021-01-10T20:46:05 < mawk> you cheated
2021-01-10T20:46:13 < Steffanx> see, haha
2021-01-10T20:46:23 < zyp> I mean, I was originally trying to get stm32f1-code going
2021-01-10T20:46:52 < zyp> and then usb is a different code at a different bus, so I had to patch rcc.h for the bus enable and usb.h for the core instance/address
2021-01-10T20:47:23 < zyp> and then still nothing happened, so I had to dig in the manual for the bit that turns off VBUS sensing
2021-01-10T20:47:36 < zyp> one that was turned off, it enumerated right away
2021-01-10T20:49:35 < Steffanx> Did gd steal the usb IP or did they really copy all the registers?
2021-01-10T20:50:27 < zyp> like I said, it's dwc_otg, so I guess they got it from synopsys in one way or another
2021-01-10T20:52:29 < Steffanx> In other words: i dont know ;)
2021-01-10T20:53:30 < zyp> well, I mean, dwc_otg is super common, seems like everybody licensed it, so it wouldn't be too surprising if gigadevices did too
2021-01-10T20:53:42 < zyp> more surprising where they got all the other periphs from :p
2021-01-10T20:57:16 < mawk> they copied all the registers maybe
2021-01-10T20:57:20 < mawk> wouldn't be surprising right?
2021-01-10T20:57:24 < mawk> just a lengthy process
2021-01-10T20:57:34 < zyp> true
2021-01-10T20:58:15 < zyp> anyway, this was a fun exercise in how much work it'd be to port cortex-m code to run on an actual risc-v
2021-01-10T20:58:19 < Steffanx> im sure about one thing then mawk . it wasnt you who did it :P
2021-01-10T20:58:29 < mawk> Steffanx :( you don't know
2021-01-10T20:58:40 < Steffanx> mawk> usb is incomprehensibly complex to me
2021-01-10T20:58:47 < mawk> maybe I lied
2021-01-10T20:59:03 < Steffanx> Yes you did
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2021-01-10T21:17:41 < Steffanx> have some music mawk  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1mS2xk37bs
2021-01-10T21:18:06 < mawk> I'm afraid to click
2021-01-10T21:32:58 < mawk> ohhhh I discovered something
2021-01-10T21:33:02 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/raw/LesduJne.txt
2021-01-10T21:33:09 < mawk> when I xor sum all the checksums in a given burst, it's 0
2021-01-10T21:33:24 < mawk> maybe it's what I'm supposed to do
2021-01-10T21:33:31 < mawk> listen for the whole burst, and checksum them all
2021-01-10T21:33:59 < mawk> or maybe not, I don't know
2021-01-10T21:34:01 < mawk> but it's a clue
2021-01-10T21:54:55 < jadew> finally, one of my 4:3 monitors is fully dead
2021-01-10T21:54:58 < jadew> couldn't revive it
2021-01-10T21:56:04 < jadew> this kind of shit always happens on sunday or at night, so you can't promptly replace it
2021-01-10T21:57:35 < jadew> they're much cheaper now than last time I bought one
2021-01-10T21:59:54 < Steffanx> ok
2021-01-10T22:01:22 < Steffanx> is it freezing outside for you mr mawk ?
2021-01-10T22:01:43 < mawk> no Steffanx why?
2021-01-10T22:01:54 < mawk> I put the transmitter in the freezer
2021-01-10T22:01:58 < Steffanx> AAH
2021-01-10T22:02:09 < mawk> lol
2021-01-10T22:02:11 < Steffanx> thats another explanation
2021-01-10T22:04:57 < zyp> 20:33:09 < mawk> when I xor sum all the checksums in a given burst, it's 0
2021-01-10T22:04:59 < zyp> well duh
2021-01-10T22:05:31 < zyp> you have almost identical data, when you xor an even number of identical data you get 0
2021-01-10T22:05:51 < zyp> when you xor 0..7 you also get 0
2021-01-10T22:06:07 < zyp> and you have an even number of that parity bit or whatever it is as well
2021-01-10T22:11:11 < mawk> yes sure
2021-01-10T22:11:16 < mawk> but I don't know if it's a checksum or not
2021-01-10T22:11:28 < mawk> I just meant, I xored the last byte of each burst of 8 packets, and that is zero
2021-01-10T22:11:31 < mawk> I didn't xor the packets themselves
2021-01-10T22:12:11 < mawk> 1B×DE×D1×14×CF×0A×05×C0 = 0, EB×2E×21×E4×3F×FA×F5×30 = 0, and so on
2021-01-10T22:12:12 < mawk> × = xor
2021-01-10T22:13:05 < zyp> I'm just saying that holds true for every col, not just the checksum col
2021-01-10T22:13:45 < mawk> yes
2021-01-10T22:14:08 < mawk> yes for the other columns it's reasonable that it holds true
2021-01-10T22:14:51 < mawk> maybe that's the checksum to do after all, sum all "checksum" bytes; but then I have no idea what the first byte is
2021-01-10T22:15:32 < Steffanx> but does it make sense to repeat a message 8 times and add a checksum?
2021-01-10T22:15:39 < mawk> apparently yes
2021-01-10T22:15:43 < zyp> doubt it, I bet the checksum is just a rotating xor or some shit
2021-01-10T22:16:44 < effractur> or some crc bla
2021-01-10T22:17:55 < effractur> mawk: what kind of sensor /chip is that data form?
2021-01-10T22:17:57 < effractur> from*
2021-01-10T22:18:42 < mawk> no idea it's in a sealed encloure
2021-01-10T22:18:57 < mawk> but it transmits temperature and humidity over 868MHz using a RF02 transmitter
2021-01-10T22:19:50 < effractur> and no branding of the sealed enclosure?
2021-01-10T22:20:29 < mawk> "868MHz thermo hygro, model THA801"
2021-01-10T22:20:58 < mawk> which google knows nothing about
2021-01-10T22:21:13 < Steffanx> fancy
2021-01-10T22:21:25 < Steffanx> Who did you steal it from?
2021-01-10T22:22:21 < effractur> so it talks to "HomeWizard"
2021-01-10T22:22:53 < effractur> if my googlefu is correct
2021-01-10T22:23:17 < effractur> ah no 
2021-01-10T22:23:19 < effractur> im wrong
2021-01-10T22:23:45 < effractur> mawk: no FCC id somewhere?
2021-01-10T22:23:55 < Steffanx> it sounds like chinaware
2021-01-10T22:24:10 < mawk> no effractur 
2021-01-10T22:24:19 < mawk> I found it in the stuff of my stepfather
2021-01-10T22:24:28 < mawk> he was evicted so fast he couldn't take his stuff
2021-01-10T22:25:00 < mawk> I see some devices have both a bitsum and a checksum
2021-01-10T22:25:17 < mawk> so wouldn't surprise me that the first and last bytes are checksums
2021-01-10T22:27:42 < Steffanx> Did you notice the checksums of the 2nd burst and the last burst are (almost) similar mawk ? Just in a different order?
2021-01-10T22:27:50 < Steffanx> if they are checksums ;)
2021-01-10T22:28:16 < mawk> ah yes
2021-01-10T22:35:59 < effractur> mawk: did you check http://wmrx00.sourceforge.net/Arduino/OregonScientific-RF-Protocols.pdf ?
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2021-01-10T23:02:32 < Steffanx> So did you find a volunteer yet jpa- ?
2021-01-10T23:13:42 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-125-126.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-10T23:27:12 < mawk> effractur: in my case is 868MHz with FSK
2021-01-10T23:27:16 < mawk> and not 433 with OOK
2021-01-10T23:27:21 < mawk> but let me check
2021-01-10T23:28:28 < Steffanx> You and your meth skills should be able to figure this out mawk. especially since it cant be a coincidence the checksums are the same for those 2 bursts
2021-01-10T23:29:08 < mawk> maybe
2021-01-10T23:29:24 < Steffanx> maybe find some more of this and perhaps you can find the pattern?
2021-01-10T23:32:52 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-01-10T23:33:06 < mawk> probably
2021-01-10T23:33:24 < Steffanx> Who knows.
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2021-01-10T23:33:38 < Steffanx> i like your optimism today mawk. did you use some downers?
2021-01-10T23:33:49 < catphish> morning
2021-01-10T23:34:03 < mawk> not yet Steffanx 
2021-01-10T23:34:07 < mawk> but good for remiding me
2021-01-10T23:34:09 < mawk> it's rail time
2021-01-10T23:37:34 < Laurenceb> bah found a bug in octave 6
2021-01-10T23:37:44 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/guCjDpE
2021-01-10T23:37:50 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/0WTG8ne
2021-01-10T23:38:01 < Laurenceb> the grid line alpha/antialiasing is screwed
2021-01-10T23:41:35 < mawk> ah maybe this rolling code thing is the same in my case effractur 
2021-01-10T23:41:39 < mawk> what I was saying is a "packet id"
2021-01-10T23:41:48 < mawk> no idea what it's for though
2021-01-10T23:41:58 < mawk> I can just ignore it
2021-01-10T23:42:16 < mawk> it's not even good for differentiating bursts since it's the same "rolling code" if the temperature/hygrometry didn't change between the two bursts
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2021-01-10T23:53:28 < mawk> I've got an example where the "rolling code" doesn't change where the checksummed data is changing
2021-01-10T23:53:32 < mawk> so, definitely not a checksum
2021-01-10T23:53:37 < mawk> probably useless status bytes
2021-01-10T23:53:40 < mawk> will not rely on it
2021-01-10T23:53:56 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/raw/I5DoI4wm.txt
2021-01-10T23:55:51 < mawk> when temperature goes from 0D4 to 0D5, all checksums are added with 0x70, and not xored
2021-01-10T23:55:57 < mawk> so it sounds like an additive checksum to me
2021-01-10T23:56:04 < mawk> with bits swapped or something
2021-01-10T23:56:10 < mawk> I'll bruteforce it to see
2021-01-10T23:58:30 < Steffanx> 0x02 to 0x92 doesnt look like 0x70 to me
--- Day changed Mon Jan 11 2021
2021-01-11T00:00:35 < Steffanx> Or like xor 0x90 
2021-01-11T00:12:37 < mawk> where do you see that?
2021-01-11T00:12:50 < mawk> ah yes
2021-01-11T00:13:37 < mawk> yeah it's plus 0x90, aka minus 0x70
2021-01-11T00:13:44 < mawk> there's just the sign that flipped
2021-01-11T00:18:17 < Steffanx> xor 0x90 :P
2021-01-11T00:20:26 < mawk> noo xor doesn't work
2021-01-11T00:20:32 < mawk> it's a real addition/subtraction
2021-01-11T00:20:38 < mawk> try with others you'll see
2021-01-11T00:22:12 < Steffanx> i meant the 1 bit changes caused the sum to be changed by xor 0x90.
2021-01-11T00:22:27 < Steffanx> *change
2021-01-11T00:22:53 < Steffanx> ignoring the first byte.
2021-01-11T00:23:46 < mawk> nooo
2021-01-11T00:23:55 < mawk> it's ±0x70
2021-01-11T00:24:02 < mawk> xor doesn't work with all pairs
2021-01-11T00:24:13 < mawk> 13/83
2021-01-11T00:24:22 < mawk> hmm maybe actually
2021-01-11T00:24:25 < Steffanx> lo
2021-01-11T00:24:26 < Steffanx> l
2021-01-11T00:24:28 < mawk> compute this in your head
2021-01-11T00:26:38 < Steffanx> i did, it passed the test
2021-01-11T00:26:49 < Steffanx> python agreed
2021-01-11T00:32:05 < mawk> also when the checksums are almost the same but swapped two by two like you spotted, it's because they're all xored with 0xC5
2021-01-11T00:32:09 < mawk> another mystery
2021-01-11T00:32:17 < mawk> maybe it's part of the crc polynomial business
2021-01-11T00:36:06 < zyp> apparently riscv got three ways of dispatching interrupts
2021-01-11T00:37:02 < mawk> only 3?
2021-01-11T00:37:12 < zyp> it can either jump to the same addr for everything, jump to a base addr plus offset or grab the addr to jump to from a table
2021-01-11T00:37:53 < mawk> the first is to do like a software interrupt handler or something
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2021-01-11T00:38:26 < zyp> in either case the handler needs to save state
2021-01-11T00:38:44 < zyp> and it doesn't seem like gcc implements __attribute__((interrupt))
2021-01-11T00:38:57 < zyp> foo.cpp:2:10: warning: 'interrupt' attribute directive ignored [-Wattributes]
2021-01-11T00:39:04 < Steffanx> oh the joy
2021-01-11T00:39:36 < mawk> yes zyp 
2021-01-11T00:39:38 < mawk> it doesn't
2021-01-11T00:39:43 < mawk> that's what I found out on x86
2021-01-11T00:39:52 < mawk> so had to do asm functions
2021-01-11T00:40:13 < zyp> what it does on x86 is irrelevant, there are attribute specific attributes
2021-01-11T00:40:30 < mawk> I mean the __attribute__ is unimplemented on x86 in the same way
2021-01-11T00:40:36 < zyp> fair
2021-01-11T00:40:46 < mawk> __attribute__((interrupt)) or irq or whatever it was
2021-01-11T00:40:52 < zyp> it'd complicate the code anyway
2021-01-11T00:41:04 < Steffanx> but what about https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/RISC-V-Function-Attributes.html ?
2021-01-11T00:41:29 < zyp> that's what I tried :)
2021-01-11T00:41:46 < mawk> you've got bleeding edge gcc?
2021-01-11T00:41:47 < Steffanx> oh, this is like wonderful openocd docs, it does not list the version on the page you usually enter
2021-01-11T00:41:50 < zyp> 10.2
2021-01-11T00:42:03 < mawk> no Steffanx it's even better
2021-01-11T00:42:11 < mawk> it lists attributes that are not yet implemented in the code
2021-01-11T00:42:18 < Steffanx>  It corresponds to the compilers (GCC) version 11.0.0
2021-01-11T00:42:18 < mawk> it's like a roadmap
2021-01-11T00:42:27 < Steffanx> oh really?
2021-01-11T00:42:28 < Steffanx> daamn
2021-01-11T00:42:35 < mawk> for the x86 one at least
2021-01-11T00:43:21 < mawk> I ate a mckroket Steffanx 
2021-01-11T00:43:28 < Steffanx> hm
2021-01-11T00:43:29 < mawk> am I real dutch now?
2021-01-11T00:43:37 < Steffanx> fuck mcdonalds
2021-01-11T00:43:59 < mawk> :(
2021-01-11T00:44:05 < mawk> it delivers fast
2021-01-11T00:44:09 < mawk> and has constant quality
2021-01-11T00:44:19 < mawk> not getting kebap gastroenteritis from it
2021-01-11T00:44:19 < zyp> so anyway, I figure the easiest solution is to just write a single dispatcher that takes care of both saving/restoring/returning, and then call a handler from a table of ordinary functions, cortex-m style
2021-01-11T00:44:29 < mawk> is it good for perf?
2021-01-11T00:45:02 < zyp> bit more overhead since you get a layer of indirection
2021-01-11T00:45:16 < Steffanx> lol, back to the roots style.
2021-01-11T00:45:57 < zyp> not all modes are supported on all parts either :)
2021-01-11T00:46:06 < mawk> nice
2021-01-11T00:46:42 < zyp> I mean, the third mode is through a «CLIC» thing, which is kinda similar to the NVIC in how it does priorities and preemption and stuff
2021-01-11T00:47:01 < zyp> and I'm not sure how common that is :)
2021-01-11T00:47:35 < mawk> probably common
2021-01-11T00:47:42 < mawk> nested interrupts, that is
2021-01-11T00:47:57 < zyp> I mean CLIC support, on actual riscv implementations
2021-01-11T00:51:37 < Steffanx> anyway, you want a real kroket mawk 
2021-01-11T00:51:41 < Steffanx> maybe a patatje oorlog
2021-01-11T00:51:43 < Steffanx> satesaus.
2021-01-11T00:51:53 < Steffanx> appelmoes
2021-01-11T00:52:29 < Steffanx> And did you eat oliebollen around the end of the year?
2021-01-11T00:53:51 < mawk> yes of course
2021-01-11T00:54:01 < mawk> every evening when the oliebollen stand was her
2021-01-11T00:54:03 < mawk> e
2021-01-11T00:54:25 < mawk> I decoded a new bit from the transmitter Steffanx 
2021-01-11T00:54:27 < mawk> two new bits
2021-01-11T00:54:36 < mawk> one "boot message" bit, and one "battery low" bit
2021-01-11T00:54:58 < mawk> now I just want this fkin checksum
2021-01-11T00:57:08 < mawk> I want to abandon
2021-01-11T00:57:15 < mawk> and use my technique of "xor all the checksums, verify it's 0"
2021-01-11T00:57:41 < Steffanx> if samemessagecount == 3.. must be right
2021-01-11T00:58:06 < mawk> what?
2021-01-11T00:58:14 < mawk> if receive same message 8 times, then it's ok?
2021-01-11T00:58:18 < mawk> with the message counter
2021-01-11T00:58:21 < mawk> yeah that's another way
2021-01-11T00:58:24 < mawk> but I want to understand
2021-01-11T00:58:26 < mawk> I'm like that
2021-01-11T00:58:26  * Laurenceb fixed octave 6
2021-01-11T00:58:28 < Laurenceb>  set(get(gcf(),'currentaxes'),'gridcolormode','manual');
2021-01-11T00:58:34 < mawk> looks like matplotlib
2021-01-11T00:58:45 < Laurenceb> setting is ignored in vector export
2021-01-11T00:58:53 < Laurenceb> but needed for png/raster
2021-01-11T00:59:00 < Laurenceb> mawk: it uses opengl directly
2021-01-11T00:59:03 < mawk> a
2021-01-11T00:59:35 < Steffanx> Nah, i went for 3, because 8 times the same ... meh :P
2021-01-11T01:00:17 < mawk> why?
2021-01-11T01:00:22 < mawk> if I get 8 of them, it's fine
2021-01-11T01:00:30 < Steffanx> but what if you dont
2021-01-11T01:01:12 < mawk> why wouldn't I?
2021-01-11T01:01:19 < mawk> even if it's in the freezer I get them 8
2021-01-11T01:01:29 < mawk> and if I don't have a cksum, I want to be 100% sure I get the right messages
2021-01-11T01:01:38 < Steffanx> 100% damn
2021-01-11T01:01:41 < mawk> yes
2021-01-11T01:01:43 < mawk> 200%
2021-01-11T01:01:59 < mawk> I don't want to display "la température extérieure est 99.9°C" when it's 16.5°C
2021-01-11T01:02:19 < Steffanx> no you dont want that.
2021-01-11T01:02:25 < mawk> yes
2021-01-11T01:02:30 < mawk> so I need 100% sure
2021-01-11T01:02:44 < Steffanx> "Buitentemperatuur is 99.9°C" is better.
2021-01-11T01:02:55 < mawk> :(
2021-01-11T01:06:06 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-01-11T01:06:39 < Steffanx> lol
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2021-01-11T01:18:18 < mawk> I found another bit, it's °C/°F
2021-01-11T01:18:27 < mawk> now just the checksum and the first bit is remaining
2021-01-11T01:18:59 < Steffanx> parity was already in your list right?
2021-01-11T01:19:09 < zyp> hmm, I guess this is pretty much what I want to do: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-fast-interrupt/blob/master/clic.adoc#c-abi-trampoline-code
2021-01-11T01:19:11 < mawk> yes parity was in the list
2021-01-11T01:19:23 < Steffanx> maybe you need some of that music i sent you earlier, makes you think better.
2021-01-11T01:19:25 < zyp> assuming there's a CLIC
2021-01-11T01:22:06 < Steffanx> such long routine :S
2021-01-11T01:22:27 < zyp> yeah, it's pretty similar to what the NVIC does in hardware
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2021-01-11T01:23:27 < Steffanx> and soon we'll have 30000 different vendor implementations.
2021-01-11T01:23:42 < zyp> :)
2021-01-11T01:24:24 < zyp> hmm, apparently in CLIC mode, it's possible to configure per interrupt whether it should be vectored or not
2021-01-11T01:26:09 < zyp> I believe that means you can either register a normal C ABI function and mark it as non-vectored to pass through that trampoline, or you can register a function with the interrupt attribute and the latter will be invoked directly and will have to manage the saving itself
2021-01-11T01:26:46 < zyp> which means it'll be able to only save what it trashes
2021-01-11T01:26:53 < zyp> i.e. faster
2021-01-11T01:32:59 < mawk> I found it I think Steffanx 
2021-01-11T01:33:04 < mawk> it's a crc16
2021-01-11T01:33:07 < mawk> combine first and last byte
2021-01-11T01:33:10 < mawk> it's a two byte crc
2021-01-11T01:33:24 < mawk> cool cool
2021-01-11T01:33:46 < Steffanx> But the first one is always the same??
2021-01-11T01:33:54 < mawk> maybe
2021-01-11T01:33:59 < fenugrec> how do you get a crc16 to produce always a nearly-identical upper byte
2021-01-11T01:33:59 < mawk> not always
2021-01-11T01:34:03 < mawk> it's the same in a single burst
2021-01-11T01:34:11 < mawk> good question
2021-01-11T01:34:19 < mawk> maybe I've just been super lucky with all the ones I've tried, let me try some more
2021-01-11T01:34:40 < mawk> but, with nearly identical input fenugrec 
2021-01-11T01:34:42 < fenugrec> also, that would be evil, splitting a crc16 at both ends of a frame
2021-01-11T01:34:42 < mawk> it's not surpirzing
2021-01-11T01:35:01 < fenugrec> yes it is surprising - a crc should change radically if you even change 1 bit of the message
2021-01-11T01:35:22 < fenugrec> unless using a garbage polynomial
2021-01-11T01:35:34 < mawk> it's Crc16Arc
2021-01-11T01:35:53 < mawk> all the ones I'm trying are working
2021-01-11T01:36:01 < mawk> so either I should play the lottery, either it's actually a crc16Arc
2021-01-11T01:36:40 < mawk> example: read bytes: 07 20 19 40 FC 29 91
2021-01-11T01:36:44 < mawk> crc.Crc16Arc.calchex(bytes.fromhex('20 19 40 FC 29'))
2021-01-11T01:36:46 < mawk> Out[803]: '9107'
2021-01-11T01:36:48 < mawk> it's working
2021-01-11T01:36:51 < mawk> on every single one I try
2021-01-11T01:37:03 < mawk> what you said is true for a hash function fenugrec , that has avalanche effect
2021-01-11T01:37:15 < mawk> but a crc is simpler maths
2021-01-11T01:37:31 < fenugrec> 07 20 ... wasn<t your frames starting with a 82 / C2 earlier ? or are those excluded from the crc
2021-01-11T01:37:45 < mawk> I exclude the first and last byte from crc
2021-01-11T01:38:02 < mawk> since the first and last bytes are the crc, that they split in two
2021-01-11T01:38:28 < mawk> the messages arrive in a 8-message burst, and the first byte is almost identical inside a burst yes
2021-01-11T01:38:33 < mawk> except its lsb
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2021-01-11T01:39:49 < mawk> there are still a few bits I don't understand the purpose of, but whatever
2021-01-11T01:39:52 < mawk> I have most of them
2021-01-11T01:39:54 < mawk> and a crc
2021-01-11T01:40:01 < fenugrec> cool
2021-01-11T01:40:27 < fenugrec> but ya that's evil, separating the crc in half. what's this from anyway
2021-01-11T01:41:49 < mawk> it's a weather transmitter
2021-01-11T01:41:57 < mawk> thermometer/hygrometer
2021-01-11T01:42:05 < mawk> it's supposed to be put outside, but it's not waterproof so I don't know
2021-01-11T01:46:02 < mawk> so jpa- it was a crc16, and first and last bytes were the crc split in half
2021-01-11T01:46:05 < mawk> end of story
2021-01-11T01:46:16 < zyp> haha
2021-01-11T01:46:51 < mawk> I can add support for it to rtl_sdr, but probably I'm the only person in the world to own this shit
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2021-01-11T01:56:58 < qyx> mawk lol
2021-01-11T01:59:03 < qyx> what, there is no ID included in the frame?
2021-01-11T02:07:14 < mawk> no
2021-01-11T02:07:29 < mawk> there is a boot id, there is a framgnet id (0..7)
2021-01-11T02:07:33 < mawk> and that's it
2021-01-11T02:08:18 < mawk> since the lower byte of crc almost doesn't change it could be used as burst id
2021-01-11T02:08:21 < mawk> but meh
2021-01-11T02:09:48 < mawk> now I have to implement it
2021-01-11T02:10:02 < mawk> there's still 1 bit I don't know what it is, but it's always 1 on all the frames I've received
2021-01-11T02:15:09 < mawk> in my main loop I have for (;;) { while (!irq_flag) { __WFE(); } do_stuff(); }
2021-01-11T02:15:23 < mawk> and in my ISR I have irq_flag = read_gpio(); __SEV();
2021-01-11T02:15:28 < mawk> is it the right way?
2021-01-11T02:15:51 < mawk> I mean in the case where the irq flag is updated just after it's been read by the main loop, but just before the __WFE command is issued
2021-01-11T02:16:05 < mawk> then the __SEV will force the event flag to be on and the next __WFE will return immediately right?
2021-01-11T02:17:43 < Thorn> why not WFI then
2021-01-11T02:19:05 < mawk> wfe is a superset
2021-01-11T02:19:07 < Thorn> both irq_flag and WFE are clearly overengineered
2021-01-11T02:19:10 < mawk> it will wait on interrupt as well
2021-01-11T02:19:16 < Thorn> when you can simply use WFI
2021-01-11T02:20:48 < Thorn> btw your do_stuff() should ideally be taking events from a queue and process them
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2021-01-11T02:22:57 < mawk> yes if the application had several things to do I guess I'd use a queue of some sort
2021-01-11T02:23:09 < mawk> for now it just fetches bytes from a radio fifo and nothing else
2021-01-11T02:23:14 < mawk> and that's the only source of interruption
2021-01-11T02:26:25 < Thorn> then irq_flag is completely superfluous
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2021-01-11T02:44:11 < fluiD> I've been using a modified version of _write to redirect printf statements to ITM_SendChar and it's been working great. I've just imported a project which includes some proprietary prebuilt .o files and one of them already defines _write.
2021-01-11T02:44:23 < fluiD> So I'm looking for another way to send debug messages to the SWV
2021-01-11T02:45:04 < Steffanx> Dont use print? 
2021-01-11T02:45:28 < fluiD> what can I use instead that provides similar functionality?
2021-01-11T02:54:36 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-01-11T02:55:27 < mawk> you can mask out the _write from the other project probably fluiD 
2021-01-11T02:55:43 < fluiD> I'm thinking I could create my own debugsprintf which internally calls sprintf then calls the itm_sendchar
2021-01-11T02:55:54 < mawk> you could do that yes
2021-01-11T02:56:06 < mawk> or force redefine _write
2021-01-11T02:56:22 < fluiD> well I'm afraid I'm going to break something the other code needs
2021-01-11T02:56:42 < mawk>  --wrap=_write and so on
2021-01-11T02:56:44 < mawk> meh no
2021-01-11T02:56:52 < mawk> no risk to break stuff
2021-01-11T02:57:07 < mawk> that proprietary code is either not using _write, or using it for the same purpose as you
2021-01-11T02:57:14 < mawk> in either case, defining it to go to ITM_SendChar would work
2021-01-11T02:57:46 < fluiD> so how can I force the overwrite?
2021-01-11T02:58:48 < fluiD> oh, -wrap is an argument for the linker
2021-01-11T02:59:13 < fluiD> ack, I don't want to start mucking with the linker call
2021-01-11T03:02:35 < fluiD> I suspect the _write is taken because they use fprintf to write to UARTs by defining FILE pointers to the huarts.
2021-01-11T03:04:47 < qyx> zyp: doesn't happen to you that sometimes something becomes missing in the RTD theme in the left sidebar menu?
2021-01-11T03:05:43 < qyx> eg. when I click on a one specific menu entry, the page is displayed but the menu lacks some other specific page
2021-01-11T03:06:44 < qyx> ok fuk, I rm -rf'd build/* and it works
2021-01-11T03:07:11 < mawk> fluiD: --wrap I think
2021-01-11T03:07:12 < mawk> ld option
2021-01-11T03:07:19 < mawk> why don't you want to start using linker?
2021-01-11T03:07:22 < fluiD> I don't understand how sprintf accepts variable number of arguments, so I'm not sure how to write a wrapper for it
2021-01-11T03:07:25 < mawk> you're programming, you're using a link
2021-01-11T03:07:28 < mawk> it's normal
2021-01-11T03:07:42 < mawk> _write is a low level function fluiD they don't call it themselves
2021-01-11T03:07:45 < mawk> it's called by the libc they use
2021-01-11T03:07:48 < mawk> and the libc you use
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2021-01-11T03:08:07 < mawk> but you can use sprintf instead sure if you don't want to use it
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2021-01-11T03:08:19 < mawk> just call sprintf, why would you redefine it fluiD ?
2021-01-11T03:08:30 < mawk> make a macro if you don't want to fuck with variadic arguments
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2021-01-11T03:08:45 < fluiD> hmm...
2021-01-11T03:08:57 < fluiD> macro is a good idea... let's see
2021-01-11T03:09:32 < mawk> #define myprintf(...) ({ char buf[1024]; int n = sprintf(buf, __VA_ARGS__); if (n > 1023) error(); ITM_SendString(buf); n; })
2021-01-11T03:09:35 < mawk> something like this
2021-01-11T03:09:47 < qyx> you are not being serious
2021-01-11T03:09:49 < mawk> you get the idea fluiD , you put ... as macro argument, then __VA_ARGS__ to use it down the line
2021-01-11T03:09:51 < mawk> lol
2021-01-11T03:09:54 < mawk> yes
2021-01-11T03:10:04 < mawk> I want to avoid fluiD the pain of variadic argument parsing
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2021-01-11T03:10:13 < mawk> or not even parsing but forwarding
2021-01-11T03:10:17 < mawk> anyway I like macros
2021-01-11T03:10:32 < qyx> I mean with the buf[1024] on the stack
2021-01-11T03:10:38 < mawk> ah
2021-01-11T03:10:43 < mawk> that's example code for fluiD to replace
2021-01-11T03:10:56 < fluiD> qyx, please explain why that's bad
2021-01-11T03:11:14 < mawk> have an unitialized global variable to use as your buffer
2021-01-11T03:11:21 < fluiD> <nod>
2021-01-11T03:11:23 < mawk> 1024 is fine, if it overflows keep 3 bytes at the end to put \r\n\0
2021-01-11T03:11:25 < fluiD> I just want to understand why it's bad
2021-01-11T03:11:30 < mawk> the stack is small
2021-01-11T03:11:32 < mawk> 1024 is big
2021-01-11T03:11:34 < fluiD> I was thinking snprintf
2021-01-11T03:11:35 < qyx> you are doing embedded
2021-01-11T03:12:13 < qyx> polluting every single task/thread in the RTOS with 1024 bytes of nothing is something people in france reward with a guilottine
2021-01-11T03:12:33 < mawk> lol
2021-01-11T03:13:19 < qyx> imagine a task with just a small stack blinking a led or whatever
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2021-01-11T03:13:29 < qyx> your le blinks the wrong way
2021-01-11T03:13:42 < qyx> you add myprintf("here I am\n);
2021-01-11T03:13:47 < fluiD> I guess I just don't understand the concept of stack
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2021-01-11T03:15:15 < fluiD> just the desire not to waste 1k of ram for every thread?
2021-01-11T03:15:40 < fluiD> mawk, why is there n; at the end of your macro?
2021-01-11T03:26:51 < fluiD> well, thanks for showing me (...) and VA_ARGS. That helps a log!
2021-01-11T03:38:15 < fluiD> they must be doing something funky. Just calling sprintf(buf, "test"); crashes into UsageFault_Handler
2021-01-11T03:39:10 < aandrew> mawk: that is a cancer macro, jesus man I think that's an indictable offence here
2021-01-11T03:39:19 < fluiD> lol
2021-01-11T03:40:14 < aandrew> fluiD: the n; at the end is to allow you to say int foo = myprintf("jesus fuck kill me now it's obvious I don't know how to write embedded code\n");
2021-01-11T03:40:32 < aandrew> not you, but mawk for that disgusting macro
2021-01-11T03:40:45 < fluiD> makes sense
2021-01-11T03:41:50 < fluiD> so ignoring the macro idea, why would I not be able to call sprintf?
2021-01-11T03:42:05 < aandrew> why the fuck he's not just defining __io_putchar() to use ITM_SendChar() is beyond me
2021-01-11T03:42:36 < aandrew> I'm not sure, but I'm sure that weird-ass macro has something to do with it
2021-01-11T03:42:45 < aandrew> fire up the debugger and see what is going on
2021-01-11T03:45:27 < fluiD> https://pastebin.com/hJcWtzif
2021-01-11T03:45:52 < aandrew> I think you might have confused me for your debugger
2021-01-11T03:48:14 < fluiD> sorry. I thought you were offering to help
2021-01-11T03:50:17 < aandrew> can't right now, sorry
2021-01-11T04:01:05 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm6GXnV7c6E tonight's music
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2021-01-11T05:07:38 < machinehum> Will cron execute your script from it's directory? I'm wondering how relative paths will work
2021-01-11T05:08:25 < machinehum> Oh nevermind you gotta cd
2021-01-11T05:47:46 < fluiD> I have no clue what's going on with this thing. Apparently there's some watchdog that will eventually skip my code and run some different code that I can't change. 
2021-01-11T06:07:40 < aandrew> what is "this thing" ?
2021-01-11T06:08:10 < fluiD> It's an EnduroSat Onboard Computer. The code is very opaque and the documentation is nil.
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2021-01-11T10:22:46 < mawk> fluiD: there a n at the end of the macro because that's its return value
2021-01-11T10:23:14 < mawk> why cancer aandrew? you don't like macros?
2021-01-11T10:23:16 < mawk> I like them
2021-01-11T10:33:04 < zyp> qyx, yeah, I've seen that too, seems like it doesn't always rebuild stuff
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2021-01-11T10:51:19 < mawk> my bank blocked my account because I tried to buy cryptocurrency
2021-01-11T10:52:07 < rajkosto> online only banks have to do that to prevent money laundering
2021-01-11T10:52:34 < mawk> it's a not-online-only bank
2021-01-11T10:52:37 < mawk> BNP Paribas
2021-01-11T10:52:50 < mawk> I opened my account in an agency with a real person
2021-01-11T10:52:58 < mawk> and I have a real counselor with a direct line and so on
2021-01-11T10:53:05 < mawk> can't be a more brick and mortar bank than this
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2021-01-11T10:53:26 < zyp> sounds like a bullshit bank
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2021-01-11T10:54:04 < zyp> rajkosto, my bank is online-only and has never had an issue with me buying or selling cryptocurrency
2021-01-11T10:54:22 < rajkosto> only a few let those transactions go, like n26
2021-01-11T10:54:25 < mawk> it's a big bank that got fined billions in the USA for money laundering
2021-01-11T10:54:36 < mawk> and a quite old bank as well
2021-01-11T10:55:13 < mawk> created in 1872
2021-01-11T10:55:42 < mawk> the original name was "bank of paris and netherlands", aren't you happy Steffanx ?
2021-01-11T10:59:10 < zyp> my bank was founded in 2000 as norway's first online-only bank
2021-01-11T10:59:18 < mawk> but yeah they blocked the account on a suspicion of "fraud"
2021-01-11T10:59:35 < mawk> which is total bullshit, I authorized the operation with DSP2 strong authentication
2021-01-11T10:59:47 < mawk> the thing they've been pushing for a year for ultimate security
2021-01-11T11:00:56 < mawk> so if they suspect it's fraud and someone stole my DSP2 authentication mechanism, they should do way more than just restrict my access to the web client, they should immediately block all my cards and call me
2021-01-11T11:01:09 < zyp> haha
2021-01-11T11:02:07 < mawk> so the "fraud" accusation is nonsense, it's only something against crypto
2021-01-11T11:02:30 < mawk> DSP2 = PSD in english, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Services_Directive
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2021-01-11T11:48:02 < Steffanx> Mawk: No  anything dutch-french is awful. 
2021-01-11T11:48:31 < mawk> :(
2021-01-11T11:48:43 < Steffanx> See this Air France-KLM debacle
2021-01-11T11:49:04 < effractur> you need to trow some german in the mix to make it work 
2021-01-11T11:51:05 < Steffanx> No, just don't "merge" two of those large companies. Both (partially) own by governments 
2021-01-11T11:51:17 < Steffanx> owned*
2021-01-11T11:51:50 < effractur> hehe that too
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2021-01-11T12:24:45 < mawk> france should just conquer back dutchland
2021-01-11T12:24:49 < mawk> to solve the KLM issue
2021-01-11T12:52:31 < skz81> <mawk> the original name was "bank of paris and netherlands", aren't you happy Steffanx ? >> BNP ?
2021-01-11T12:53:23 < skz81> mawk, nevermind, stated above
2021-01-11T12:54:42 < mawk> yes Paribas
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2021-01-11T13:00:17 < zyp> oh
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2021-01-11T13:00:36 < zyp> gcc 10.2 _does_ support the interrupt attribute
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2021-01-11T13:00:48 < zyp> at least using the __attribute__ syntax
2021-01-11T13:01:01 < zyp> but not when using the [[ ]] syntax
2021-01-11T13:03:40 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/a80H5
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2021-01-11T13:14:52 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvZjhWE-3zM using uranium as an actual proppelant of a rocket engine
2021-01-11T13:15:45 < mawk> zyp: even [[gnu::interrupt(...)]] ?
2021-01-11T13:15:47 < mawk> that's weird
2021-01-11T13:15:51 < mawk> it's suppose to be a mapping
2021-01-11T13:16:23 < zyp> ah
2021-01-11T13:16:26 < zyp> nice, that works
2021-01-11T13:16:58 < mawk> ah cool
2021-01-11T13:19:14 < zyp> great, then I can write the entire dispatcher in C++
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2021-01-11T19:00:44 < qyx> zyp: another issue, solving, I am
2021-01-11T19:02:23 < qyx> if theres a content in a section which includes :doc:`document-name`, it is displayed as a text from the heaer of the said document
2021-01-11T19:02:53 < qyx> but in a toctree, there are two items generated, one as a "document-name" and one with the header text of the document
2021-01-11T19:03:30 < qyx> clicking the first one opens the document, clicking the second one just scrolls to the :doc:`document-name` header in the parent document
2021-01-11T19:04:14 < qyx> nowai of making the :doc:`document-name` not included in the sidebar menu
2021-01-11T19:04:39 < qyx> (three lines above, I meant sidebar menu by "toctree")
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2021-01-11T19:08:47 < zyp> use maxdepth for the toctree maybe?
2021-01-11T19:10:11 < qyx> I have a feeling maxdepth doesn't do anything
2021-01-11T19:10:57 < zyp> hmm, maybe that's only when it's issuing a toctree at the current position, not sidebar
2021-01-11T19:13:05 < qyx> it works if I define the page as orphaned (not included in any toctree)
2021-01-11T19:13:16 < qyx> but then it doesn't generate any sidebar menu tree for that page
2021-01-11T19:19:57 < qyx> hm it does exactly what I want if I change ----- :doc:`document-name` ------ to just :doc:`document-name`
2021-01-11T19:20:15 < qyx> then it doesn't generate redundant entries
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2021-01-11T19:39:13 < Laurenceb> what the fudge
2021-01-11T19:39:15 < Laurenceb> https://www.st.com/en/wireless-transceivers-mcus-and-modules/bluenrg-lp.html?icmp=tt19302_gl_bn_dec2020
2021-01-11T19:39:22 < Laurenceb> st made bluetooth useful?
2021-01-11T19:39:27 < Laurenceb> epin if true
2021-01-11T19:42:56 < Laurenceb> how do you change bluetooth data rate at pc end? Is that feature only part of BLE?
2021-01-11T19:44:37 < Laurenceb> interesting set of features, even has hardware PDM decode
2021-01-11T19:47:15 < Laurenceb> wait they seem to be telling fibs
2021-01-11T19:47:34 < Laurenceb> datasheet says the "low speed mode" adds loads of FEC
2021-01-11T19:49:22 < Laurenceb> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/evaluation-tools/solution-evaluation-tools/communication-and-connectivity-solution-eval-boards/steval-idb011v1.html
2021-01-11T19:49:28 < Laurenceb> TARDUINO spotted
2021-01-11T19:52:08 < Laurenceb> I get 4km range in free space, pretty impressive
2021-01-11T19:57:41 < Laurenceb> but itd be worse using urban attenuation model
2021-01-11T19:58:29 < Laurenceb> 1km extraurban looks realistic, but itd be very vulnerable to interference in a realistic urban environment
2021-01-11T20:00:33 < Steffanx> Lrnce RF
2021-01-11T20:01:56 < englishman> Bluetooth horse manure
2021-01-11T20:02:32 < Laurenceb> keeek
2021-01-11T20:02:47 < Laurenceb> that would uniroically be useful for horsey monitor
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2021-01-11T20:04:15 < Laurenceb> bluetooth mesh network to create an internet of drumpf supporters
2021-01-11T20:05:07 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-01-11T20:05:24 < Laurenceb> the "darpa uk" guys have published funded project list
2021-01-11T20:05:27 < Laurenceb> https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=971748
2021-01-11T20:05:46 < Laurenceb> >heart of the W2W (Water to Water) system
2021-01-11T20:05:54 < Laurenceb> what the fuck am I reading
2021-01-11T20:06:14 < Laurenceb> this makes emdrive and qanon seem sane
2021-01-11T20:07:13 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQXHdItgb7I
2021-01-11T20:08:17 < englishman> oh I know
2021-01-11T20:08:26 < englishman> fill a train with water at the top of a hill
2021-01-11T20:08:29 < englishman> let it go down
2021-01-11T20:08:34 < Laurenceb> keeekkkkkk
2021-01-11T20:08:35 < englishman> dump all the water at the bottom
2021-01-11T20:08:37 < Laurenceb> https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=971505
2021-01-11T20:08:38 < englishman> it goes back up
2021-01-11T20:09:14 < Laurenceb> sounds like my problem was stratosolar was too sane
2021-01-11T20:10:15 < Laurenceb> >could just buy dirt cheap panels and bronze impeller pump of alibaba
2021-01-11T20:10:24 < Laurenceb> nooo it has to be steam powered
2021-01-11T20:11:04 < englishman> 400kgbp to the first nice
2021-01-11T20:11:35 < englishman> stratosteamsolar
2021-01-11T20:12:06 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-11T20:12:08 < Laurenceb> https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=972239
2021-01-11T20:12:12 < Laurenceb> >Q fever
2021-01-11T20:12:19 < Laurenceb> this explains everything
2021-01-11T20:13:07 < englishman> 1.6m nice
2021-01-11T20:13:34 < englishman> how much did you get again
2021-01-11T20:14:20 < Laurenceb> I applied for about 15k for phase 1 and 90 for phase 2 lol
2021-01-11T20:14:43 < Laurenceb> got rejected :(
2021-01-11T20:15:14 < englishman> not enough
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2021-01-11T20:17:03 < Laurenceb> heh yeah one of the feedback comments was I hadn't asked for enough money
2021-01-11T20:19:16 < aandrew> this has GOT to be a Laurenceb invention: https://gizmodo.com/the-taint-bandaid-is-real-now-1846017893
2021-01-11T20:19:55 < Laurenceb> what the fuuuu
2021-01-11T20:20:00 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-01-11T20:22:43 < Laurenceb> looks like these are the crackpots
2021-01-11T20:22:45 < Laurenceb> http://www.steamcar.co.uk/
2021-01-11T20:31:42 < Laurenceb> st making bluetooth great again
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2021-01-11T21:00:36 < aandrew> does anyone have the at91sam firmware for j-link OB? I have one that's stuck in atmel sam-ba bootloader
2021-01-11T21:02:10 < Steffanx> try sync  
2021-01-11T21:26:09 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-11T21:26:57 < zyp> I wish there were a sane type to use for stuff like linker-script defined symbols (e.g. _ram_end)
2021-01-11T21:27:46 < zyp> ideally I'd like to declare it as «extern void _ram_end» to indicate _ram_end does not have a useful value, but you can get a useful address by doing &_ram_end
2021-01-11T21:28:40 < antto> isn't that how it works now?
2021-01-11T21:28:58 < antto> wait, it's not "void" tho
2021-01-11T21:29:02 < zyp> error: variable or field '_ram_end' declared void
2021-01-11T21:29:13 < antto> yeah, don't you want a point0r
2021-01-11T21:29:33 < zyp> it's not a pointer, it's a symbol
2021-01-11T21:29:44 < zyp> to get a pointer you reference it; &_ram_end
2021-01-11T21:29:53 < antto> but
2021-01-11T21:29:57 < zyp> then you'd get a valid void*
2021-01-11T21:30:01 < antto> isn't void not allowed for a variable?
2021-01-11T21:30:13 < zyp> yeah, that's what I'm complaining about :)
2021-01-11T21:30:24 < antto> i mean, you can't make an array of 5 voids
2021-01-11T21:30:29 < antto> why would you
2021-01-11T21:30:43 < zyp> this is one of the cases where it makes sense to declare a void
2021-01-11T21:31:21 < zyp> there is nothing stored at _ram_end, reading or writing that address would be ignored or give a busfault (or maybe wrap, idk)
2021-01-11T21:31:58 < antto> then IMO it makes sense to be a pointer, no?
2021-01-11T21:32:04 < zyp> no.
2021-01-11T21:32:15 < aandrew> this is exactly what void* is good for
2021-01-11T21:32:19 < antto> unfortunately pointers aren't great with templates
2021-01-11T21:32:28 < aandrew> if you want a value you can do something similar
2021-01-11T21:32:51 < zyp> aandrew, &_ram_end would be void*
2021-01-11T21:32:54 < aandrew> it's not my problem that C++ removes such a useful feature :-)
2021-01-11T21:33:12 < antto> bruh, we go void*
2021-01-11T21:33:15 < antto> * got
2021-01-11T21:33:30 < aandrew> zyp: I'd say void *_ram_end and just pick it up in the code
2021-01-11T21:33:47 < zyp> aandrew, that doesn't make sense
2021-01-11T21:33:59 < antto> zyp, what about uintptr_t?
2021-01-11T21:34:02 < aandrew> sure it does
2021-01-11T21:34:18 < zyp> the interesting value in any case is &_ram_end, which would in that case be a void**
2021-01-11T21:34:59 < antto> what are you effectively trying to do with this?
2021-01-11T21:35:22 < antto> i've used something like _ram_end on xmega for the stack canary thing
2021-01-11T21:35:54 < zyp> e.g. https://paste.jvnv.net/view/E3t19
2021-01-11T21:36:34 < aandrew> usually you want to screw with it for bootloader comms area or like antto said, canary checks
2021-01-11T21:36:40 < antto> i don't get the asm chunks
2021-01-11T21:37:10 < zyp> in this case it's part of the init code, I'm setting stack pointer to the end of ram
2021-01-11T21:37:18 < antto> i have this: extern uint8_t __data_start;
2021-01-11T21:37:25 < zyp> yeah, same thing
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2021-01-11T21:37:54 < antto> i found it on avrfreaks, but it was written in C, commented out coz "it doesn't work" and written in inline asm
2021-01-11T21:37:54 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/startup/entry.cpp#n8
2021-01-11T21:37:58 < antto> i made it wurk in C++
2021-01-11T21:38:49 < zyp> the data/bss/init/fini sections are reasonable enough, they are actually readable areas so it makes sense to give them the type you'd read them as, i.e. either uint32_t or funcp_t in my case
2021-01-11T21:39:02 < zyp> but _ram_end does not store anything
2021-01-11T21:40:21 < antto> what about _ram_start?
2021-01-11T21:41:00 < zyp> _ram_start is not interesting :)
2021-01-11T21:41:43 < antto> <excuses.txt>
2021-01-11T21:41:44 < zyp> it's usually equivalent to _data_start, except when I'm reserving start of ram for uninitialized data
2021-01-11T21:42:18 < antto> just make it like the others but don't touch it as if it stores anything there
2021-01-11T21:43:46 < aandrew> zyp: that's usually done in vectors in the linker file, you're doing something interesting in C?
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2021-01-11T21:44:34 < antto> bruh, that's C++
2021-01-11T21:44:40 < zyp> aandrew, the linker script emits the symbol, the C++ code uses it
2021-01-11T21:44:58 < zyp> C vs C++ isn't really relevant
2021-01-11T21:45:29 < antto> not yet
2021-01-11T21:45:43 < antto> sprinkle some constexpr on it
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2021-01-11T22:09:27 < zyp> https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/
2021-01-11T22:09:45 < effractur> wait wat?
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2021-01-11T22:23:51 < Steffanx> lol what indeed
2021-01-11T22:24:32 -!- Teeed_ [~Teeed@2001:15e8:110:306f::1] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1+deb9u2 - http://znc.in]
2021-01-11T22:25:06 < Steffanx> Tell your russian friends to stop hacking zyp 
2021-01-11T22:25:52 < englishman> why do they have to be russian?
2021-01-11T22:25:59 < englishman> maybe they are from wyoming
2021-01-11T22:26:18 < Steffanx> because got to blame the russian....
2021-01-11T22:26:26 < Steffanx> s
2021-01-11T22:42:27 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-11T22:59:25 < Steffanx> oh lol, now they are having difficulties
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2021-01-11T23:01:32 < fenugrec> ddosd by stm32
2021-01-11T23:04:54 < BrainDamage> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/dutch-officials-seize-ham-sandwiches-from-british-drivers
2021-01-11T23:13:33 < Steffanx> muhahahhahaha gotta love the brexit and customs that take their job waaaay to seriously.
2021-01-11T23:18:51 < zyp> haha
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2021-01-11T23:55:58 < Laurenceb> >Normieism is a cult, but qanon isn't. You can leave qanon at any time, but you'll never stop being normal
--- Day changed Tue Jan 12 2021
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2021-01-12T00:23:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMLAGJcnpa8
2021-01-12T00:31:23 -!- Teeed [~Teeed@teeed.eu] has quit [Quit: Quit]
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2021-01-12T00:50:55 < qyx> hm, my RF trace impedance is ~28 ohm
2021-01-12T00:51:00 < qyx> doesn't sound good
2021-01-12T00:55:06 < Steffanx> Depends on if you wanted it to be 28 ohm
2021-01-12T01:04:29 -!- CatCow97 [~mine9@c-73-96-109-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
2021-01-12T01:05:45 < mawk> my program is purring like a baby cat now Steffanx 
2021-01-12T01:05:47 < mawk> Checksum FD13, boot id 55, booting 0, low battery 0, channel 0, packet 8/8, temperature 21.9C, humidity 39%
2021-01-12T01:06:26 < Steffanx> 21.9 damn
2021-01-12T01:06:30 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-01-12T01:06:46 < mawk> what, too cold for you?
2021-01-12T01:06:49 < mawk> I like 23°C
2021-01-12T01:22:12 < qyx> I usually have 19-21
2021-01-12T01:23:44 < mawk> time to blogpost about the weather transmitter adventure
2021-01-12T01:23:48 < mawk> and become infinitely famous
2021-01-12T01:23:53 < mawk> I still need to implement that crc though
2021-01-12T01:23:57 < mawk> the algorithm looks ugly and annoying
2021-01-12T01:24:01 < mawk> there's even bit reversing in it
2021-01-12T01:24:08 < mawk> it's CRC16-IBM/CRC16-ARC
2021-01-12T01:24:29 < mawk> reflected input, reflected output, polynomial 0x8005
2021-01-12T01:24:56 < mawk> I still hate them for having split the crc in half
2021-01-12T01:25:00 < mawk> that was super hard to guess
2021-01-12T01:26:08 < zyp> haha
2021-01-12T01:32:51 < mawk> so, first build a table of bit reflection
2021-01-12T01:32:55 < mawk> lots of funny bitwise operations to come
2021-01-12T01:33:14 < fenugrec> pycrc will gladly generate bit reversing code for you
2021-01-12T01:34:18 < mawk> yeah but it's running on a nucleo-32
2021-01-12T01:34:27 < mawk> in python I already have the right crc code, in crccheck library
2021-01-12T01:34:31 < mawk> crcchec.crc.Crc16Arc
2021-01-12T01:34:33 < fenugrec> ah
2021-01-12T01:35:01 < mawk> yeah I wouldn't do spi on a pi or whatever it's too annoying
2021-01-12T01:35:07 < mawk> maybe use a pi when everything works perfectly
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2021-01-12T01:39:53 < qyx> no canfd on F7?
2021-01-12T01:39:56 < qyx> that makes me a sad panda
2021-01-12T01:46:47 < qyx> and nearly no H7 available on mouser
2021-01-12T01:47:00 < qyx> all are expected to arrive 02/2021 or 03/2021
2021-01-12T01:50:12 < fenugrec> stm32 is the toilet paper of mcus
2021-01-12T01:50:39 < fenugrec> inflatd prices, out of stock everywhere
2021-01-12T01:50:54 < qyx> whats the reason?
2021-01-12T01:51:12 < fenugrec> pandemic + strike
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2021-01-12T01:57:18 < mawk> nobody needs canfd
2021-01-12T01:57:29 < mawk> lol strike
2021-01-12T01:57:32 < mawk> st isn't french for nothing
2021-01-12T01:57:43 < mawk> wow I can compute crc: Checksum 9952 (expected 9952)
2021-01-12T01:58:00 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/L34fQ6PL.c
2021-01-12T02:04:17 < englishman> st on strike?
2021-01-12T02:04:23 < englishman> better switch to msp430
2021-01-12T02:08:42 < zyp> I thought gd32 was the shit nowadays
2021-01-12T02:13:00 < mawk> nooo
2021-01-12T02:13:02 < mawk> don't say that zyp 
2021-01-12T02:13:46 < zyp> ok, I'm just kidding
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2021-01-12T02:38:36 < kakium69> finally webchat can reconnect with 2 clicks
2021-01-12T02:40:20 < kakium69> before it gave captcha error because there was no captcha for reconnect
2021-01-12T02:40:58 < kakium69> I got tired to write my nick and channel every time so I got eventually creative with my nicks
2021-01-12T02:59:41 < mawk> why do you use webchat
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2021-01-12T03:12:31 < englishman> Laurenceb: stardink is apparently available for you
2021-01-12T03:12:41 < Laurenceb> cool
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2021-01-12T04:21:25 < qyx> is 133 MHz QSPI much to consider series resistors?
2021-01-12T04:39:56 < GenTooMan> is it possible to run the STM32 TIM1-<xxx> off the LSE clock? From what I can tell no.
2021-01-12T04:44:29 < GenTooMan> oh and no LPTIMER can't do what I want.
2021-01-12T05:03:11 < qyx> what do you want?
2021-01-12T05:03:27 < qyx> also, why LSE? do you need it in stop modes?
2021-01-12T05:34:42 < GenTooMan> yes I want it functioning in stop modes, (wake up and end of period) and I have fairly long periods I also need to use the output compare as well.
2021-01-12T05:35:39 < GenTooMan> well WANT to use in any case.
2021-01-12T05:35:47 < dongs> GenTooMan, there's LPTIM in appropriate low-power models that runs that way i believe.
2021-01-12T05:36:12 < dongs> turning on general timers actually consumes a fair bit of power
2021-01-12T05:36:13 < GenTooMan> I have nary seen output compare on an LPTIM
2021-01-12T05:36:27 < dongs> yeah i dont know if it does it, i havent looked at it other than knowing of its existence
2021-01-12T05:36:45 < GenTooMan> Better than what I know at least!
2021-01-12T05:38:15 < GenTooMan> I guess I had better look at the SAM equivalent to see if it implements it. I just want to flash something periodically and doing it in software costs a huge amount of power (kick the processor on to flip the IO on then off).
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2021-01-12T05:54:02 < fenugrec> GenTooMan, RTC wakeup not accurate enough ?
2021-01-12T06:01:02 < GenTooMan> fenugrec, since the timer output is to briefly flash an LED (as in 10ms to 20ms) without powering up the processor the timing isn't actually the issue. I want the thing to wake up periodically check things and change the flash if necessary. 
2021-01-12T06:02:16 < GenTooMan> fenugrec, so the RTC wakeup was actually already going to be used, it's just that powering up a processor just to waste a huge amount of energy at once is rough on a battery.
2021-01-12T06:02:48 < fenugrec> but you need to powerup the core to "periodically check things and change flash" anyway ?
2021-01-12T06:04:38 < GenTooMan> right but it has to be when the LED isn't on which I can do with the RTC. I just need to set the first flash at a 1/2 the period of the flashing and make the flashing a multiple of 1 minute (as I plan to wake up things ever minute).
2021-01-12T06:05:33 < GenTooMan> hmm I guess it's kind of unavoidable in this architecture. blah.
2021-01-12T06:05:41 < fenugrec> ah
2021-01-12T06:06:26 < GenTooMan> nothing is every easy with battery operated devices sadly.
2021-01-12T06:07:10 < fenugrec> might need to move the blinking feature to an external parts
2021-01-12T06:07:38 < fenugrec> CMOS relaxation osc with RC time constant ?
2021-01-12T06:08:08 < fenugrec> or some flipflop magic
2021-01-12T06:09:55 < GenTooMan> yeah that's what I get for trying to use an ST part for very low power LOL
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2021-01-12T06:18:11 < fenugrec> maybe you don't need a 32-bit ARM core, too...
2021-01-12T06:30:47 < dongs> what part are you eveing using
2021-01-12T06:30:59 < dongs> unless its L0 or G0 or something you're definitely using wrong shit for the job
2021-01-12T06:31:09 < dongs> in b4 F103 or some other garbage
2021-01-12T06:31:31 < fenugrec> F7
2021-01-12T06:31:36 < dongs> laugh
2021-01-12T06:35:47 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-01-12T06:35:52 < Laurenceb> F103 gets the jerb done
2021-01-12T06:36:01 < Laurenceb> the atmega168 of stm32
2021-01-12T06:36:38 < Laurenceb> crapillary used F103, used all peripherals apart from CAN and worked... just
2021-01-12T06:37:01 < Laurenceb> the labview interface sometimes got laggy if you hammered the buttons
2021-01-12T06:38:22 < GenTooMan> hmm I was looking at a L433 for LCD usage. Need 12bit ADC referenced to power was fine as the transducer attached to it output scales with the power supply.
2021-01-12T06:42:10 < dongs> also, 
2021-01-12T06:42:13 < dongs> > since the timer output is to briefly flash an LED (as in 10ms to 20ms)
2021-01-12T06:42:17 < dongs> why would you waste power to flash a led
2021-01-12T06:42:23 < dongs> if the shit needs to be so low power
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2021-01-12T09:39:19 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/differential_tweezers.png   next weird invention
2021-01-12T09:41:15 < jadew> is that for differential probing?
2021-01-12T09:41:22 < jpa-> yeah
2021-01-12T09:41:26 < jadew> nice idea
2021-01-12T09:41:35 < jpa-> putting the attenuator resistor close to the probe tip to minimize capacitance
2021-01-12T09:42:08 < jpa-> http://essentialscrap.com/probe/inuse.jpg   and then sharpen the tip so that it can probe between pins without short circuits
2021-01-12T09:42:34 < jadew> interesting
2021-01-12T09:43:16 < jadew> what bw?
2021-01-12T09:43:35 < jpa-> aiming at ~100MHz, but with my analog skills it might be 10MHz :D
2021-01-12T09:43:57 < jpa-> fairly straightforward circuit with OPA810
2021-01-12T09:44:04 < jadew> heh, you'll probably get 100 MHz
2021-01-12T09:44:19 < jadew> maybe even more
2021-01-12T09:45:39 < jpa-> biggest problem is driving 1 meter of thin coax, it has a capacitance of 90pF
2021-01-12T09:46:08 < jpa-> if i just put 50 ohm series resistor on output, it would lowpass at 35 MHz
2021-01-12T09:46:18 < jpa-> and if i just drive directly, it would overshoot like crazy
2021-01-12T09:46:26 < jpa-> hopefully i can tune it to some sane amplitude flatness
2021-01-12T09:48:35 < jadew> you need to drive it with the impedance of the cable
2021-01-12T09:48:42 < jadew> and have it properly terminated
2021-01-12T09:48:50 < jadew> otherwise you'll get ringing
2021-01-12T09:49:30 < jpa-> with that length and bandwidth i don't think i'll need parallel termination at the end, series termination at the driving end should be enough
2021-01-12T09:49:33 < jadew> I think the coax used in oscilloscope probes has higher impedance (not sure tho)
2021-01-12T09:50:07 < jadew> if your scope is not also 50 Ohm, then it will ring
2021-01-12T09:50:20 < jpa-> nah, it will just have the series termination response
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2021-01-12T09:51:34 < jpa-> https://www.altium.com/resources/styles/doc_import/public/doc-import/2nku__71w5Wf2jZKru2ftyeUJXpVLrDXFaadY1JSS34e0-qlrwD0-XVrtfqZ4icv9Nzy53PO8O9SzR9J_3lYRZ-eapCRFAfV6r2kF7rCDpMcyiRokh33wc0g8d5ZdIVraqtnE7fs.png?itok=uXKBxZ1L   like this, with the steps being 3 ns apart so not an issue with 100MHz
2021-01-12T09:53:42 < jpa-> but sure, adding 50 ohm terminator improves response; only as long as the driving end is up to it, though
2021-01-12T09:53:46 < jadew> where is the red signal being measured?
2021-01-12T09:55:12 < jadew> jpa-, my prediction is that you will get at least overshooting on the leading and falling edges if you don't have it terminated
2021-01-12T09:55:44 < jpa-> red is driving end, orange is receiving end
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2021-01-12T09:56:38 < jpa-> my prediction is the same, but i predict it because the driving opamp will overshoot with a capacitive load
2021-01-12T09:57:16 < jadew> no, I mean if you drive it with a perfect 50 ohm and the oscilloscope end is unterminated
2021-01-12T09:57:37 < jpa-> well, that is series termination and i trust that "series termination" as a concept is not complete hogwash
2021-01-12T09:58:00 < jadew> well, you have series termination on the driver side, correct?
2021-01-12T09:58:24 < jpa-> yes
2021-01-12T09:58:34 < jadew> so you're driving it with 50 Ohm
2021-01-12T09:58:47 < jpa-> and with series termination you usually have infinity ohms at the receiving side, and 1Mohm should be close enough
2021-01-12T09:58:56 < jadew> exactly
2021-01-12T09:59:13 < jadew> which will cause a reflection
2021-01-12T09:59:29 < jpa-> which will bring the signal amplitude to correct level
2021-01-12T09:59:53 < jpa-> because driving 50 ohm coax with 50 ohm series termination results in half amplitude, but with a reflection it doubles to correct amplitude
2021-01-12T10:00:00 < jadew> hold on, red is the driving signal?
2021-01-12T10:00:23 < jadew> before or after the resistor?
2021-01-12T10:00:31 < jpa-> driving signal before resistor is like orange but to the left, not shown; red is driver after resistor
2021-01-12T10:01:05 < jadew> yeah, I have really high doubts that that is what you will get
2021-01-12T10:01:25 < jpa-> do you doubt series termination as a concept, or just in this particular instance? :)
2021-01-12T10:01:33 < jadew> the orange trace only makes sense if you don't have a transmission line
2021-01-12T10:02:17 < jpa-> the orange trace makes sense when you consider that it is right next to the point where the reflection occurs: the time between primary pulse and reflected is 0
2021-01-12T10:02:31 < jpa-> and when the reflected pulse gets back to the driver end, it sees 50 ohms and doesn't reflect further
2021-01-12T10:02:35 < jadew> right, but then the reflection goes away
2021-01-12T10:02:42 < jadew> and you're left with the primary pulse
2021-01-12T10:02:57 < jadew> meaning that the amplitude at the receiver will go down to where it should be
2021-01-12T10:03:00 < jadew> so you end up with a pulse
2021-01-12T10:03:25 < jpa-> reflection goes away only when primary pulse goes away
2021-01-12T10:03:34 < jadew> you can get what they're showing there, but only if you tune the bw and the pulse width I think
2021-01-12T10:03:44 < jadew> jpa-, that's not how it works, no
2021-01-12T10:04:14 < jadew> the moment your pulse stabilizes, you have DC
2021-01-12T10:04:23 < jadew> there's no reflection happening in that case
2021-01-12T10:04:48 < jpa-> and with DC there is no load for the driver end either, so the amplitude is again correct
2021-01-12T10:05:10 < jadew> hmm
2021-01-12T10:05:22 < jadew> ok, it might work :D
2021-01-12T10:05:30 < jpa-> as for what happens in between, it should be smooth - but it will be annoyingly slow because of RC lowpass effect with the driver impedance and cable capacitance
2021-01-12T10:05:42 < jadew> I have to give it a try
2021-01-12T10:06:02 < jpa-> but i might be able to tune the driving amplifier response so that it counteracts some of the RC lowpass effect of the cable
2021-01-12T10:08:00 < jpa-> fully parallel termination (0 ohm at driving end, 50 ohm at receiver end) would have much better bandwidth, but i would also need a much better opamp
2021-01-12T10:10:33 < jadew> I think there's more to this, tbh
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2021-01-12T10:12:29 < jadew> I think I know what it is
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2021-01-12T10:21:51 < qyx> GenTooMan: huh I am using lptim for waking up https://paste.jvnv.net/view/V11xp
2021-01-12T10:22:13 < qyx> it indeed has compare
2021-01-12T10:24:41 < jadew> ok, had to reanalyze everything... and I came to the conclusion that there's more to that screenshot
2021-01-12T10:26:42 < jpa-> https://www.altium.com/solution/transmission-lines-and-terminations-in-high-speed-design   the image is btw. from this guide; you can tell that it is high quality guide by looking at figure 4
2021-01-12T10:27:10 < jadew> I'll check it out in a few minutes, have to go make a sandwich
2021-01-12T10:31:01 < mawk> wow that article is even translaetd in french jpa- 
2021-01-12T10:34:46 < jadew> jpa-, I was correct
2021-01-12T10:34:55 < jadew> the screenshot you showed is for a terminated circuit
2021-01-12T10:35:25 < jadew> "Two nanoseconds later the EM field arrives back at the driver and encounters the circuit shown in Figure 5 and is absorbed. The resulting waveform is shown in Figure 12."
2021-01-12T10:35:41 < jadew> this is figure 5: https://www.altium.com/resources/styles/doc_import/public/doc-import/sgfKYfn3geKFJN_hdsub-gRkG7IXBEXyAuMTTRYuZXIn9kjbCTqXxmlJLYqoMLC3GHuDhtagEVkYzkbH3hag1cpPtCRVgx8VC5Shla9oxZped1hrgPt4HBHSJrUV_uoeAc-caJ3J.png?itok=ye-6j_rV
2021-01-12T10:35:58 < jadew> notice the termination Rt = Z0
2021-01-12T10:36:39 < jadew> without it, you would have overshooting on the leading and falling edges
2021-01-12T10:43:06 < jpa-> yet they say "When the EM field arrives at the end of the transmission line two nanoseconds later, it encounters an open circuit and is reflected back down the line."
2021-01-12T10:43:12 < jpa-> the text doesn't seem to match figure 5
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2021-01-12T10:45:25 < jpa-> but anyway, i'm not aiming for a pure transmission line behavior anyway as that would be too slow - i'll tune it up, like how 10x passive probes work, with parallel resistor and capacitor
2021-01-12T10:45:55 < jpa-> which has the downside that the cable length must be constant
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2021-01-12T10:52:03 < jadew> jpa-, I agree, the text doesn't seem to match the figure numbers
2021-01-12T10:55:32 < jpa-> i don't think there is much "more to it" with idealized resistors & transmission lines
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2021-01-12T10:56:42 < jpa-> but in reality the "more to it" comes from at least two things:   1) scope has 13 pF capacitance, so it is not pure resistive termination or open end    2) driver has weird impedance which is not pure resistive
2021-01-12T11:02:02 < jadew> I re-read the description and yeah, I agree, it could work
2021-01-12T11:05:17 < jadew> I have to build a test circuit to play with to get a better understanding of all the effects, but the description there sounds reasonable
2021-01-12T11:08:30 < jadew> my new display just arrived, ttyl
2021-01-12T11:18:19 < mawk> have a variable resistor or capacitor jadew ?
2021-01-12T11:18:21 < mawk> jpa-: *
2021-01-12T11:18:25 < mawk> let people tune it
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2021-01-12T11:28:51 < jpa-> mawk: yeah, may be necessary
2021-01-12T11:29:29 < jpa-> though 50ohm // X pF driver is not as sensitive to capacitance variations as a 9Mohm // 15 pF driver in passive probes
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2021-01-12T12:47:31 < jadew> heh, I'm running the cleatype text tuner and it's asking me "which variant looks best"
2021-01-12T12:47:36 < jadew> and to me they all look the same
2021-01-12T12:48:18 < jadew> that probably means I can pick any of them, but I'm sure there's a right answer
2021-01-12T12:52:49 < jadew> it's worse than my previous one
2021-01-12T12:52:58 < jadew> more backlight bleed
2021-01-12T12:53:41 < jadew> worse than my other dell
2021-01-12T12:53:52 < jadew> I wonder if there's a relation between response time and backlight bleed
2021-01-12T12:54:09 < jadew> older dell I have is 8ms, this one is 4 or 5
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2021-01-12T13:07:44 < jpa-> jadew: if all look the same, i would disable cleartype (enable only grayscale antialiasing), that way your screenshots will be clearer on other screens
2021-01-12T13:08:15 < jadew> with cleartype disabled the text does look different tho
2021-01-12T13:08:35 < jadew> it looks better with it enabled, it's just that the choices it makes me pick from, they all look the same
2021-01-12T13:09:32 < jadew> anyway, while testing the monitor I realized how calming and nice it is to have nature running on one of the screens
2021-01-12T13:10:12 < jadew> it's like having a window into the jungle outside, except there are no crawlies creeping into the room
2021-01-12T13:11:22 < jadew> I wonder if having a window sized display dedicated to this would make a difference on the stress level of people working in office conditions
2021-01-12T13:12:33 < jpa-> maybe you'll need that for your covid bunker
2021-01-12T13:12:43 < jadew> haha
2021-01-12T13:12:45 < jpa-> old huge TVs are quite easy to come by for free
2021-01-12T13:13:13 < jadew> speaking of which, are you guys getting the vaccine?
2021-01-12T13:13:25 < jadew> and the next question: which one?
2021-01-12T13:13:32 < jadew> also, PaulFertser are you still alive?
2021-01-12T13:13:43 < PaulFertser> jadew: yep
2021-01-12T13:13:51 < jpa-> no idea, it'll be 6 months before its available for normal healthy people here
2021-01-12T13:14:05 < jadew> cool, is your temperature back to normal?
2021-01-12T13:14:20 < jadew> jpa-, my wife is supposed to get it in the next couple of days
2021-01-12T13:14:24 < jadew> she's still on the fence about it
2021-01-12T13:14:40 < PaulFertser> jadew: it was on the second day after, yes
2021-01-12T13:14:54 < PaulFertser> jadew: I asked a coworker and she had similar experience but from the second part of it
2021-01-12T13:15:13 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, I think fever is a side effect for the mRNA ones too
2021-01-12T13:15:33 < PaulFertser> jadew: nothing too extreme really just have your favourite paracetamol/ibuprofen pill handy and allow for a day of not doing anything at all after the vaccination just in case.
2021-01-12T13:15:39 < PaulFertser> jadew: what is she going to get?
2021-01-12T13:15:47 < PaulFertser> biontech?
2021-01-12T13:15:50 < jadew> yeah
2021-01-12T13:16:10 < PaulFertser> Cool, so advanced
2021-01-12T13:16:39 < dongs> what garbage screen did judew get
2021-01-12T13:16:49 < jadew> from that article that zyp posted a couple of days ago, it seems fairly safe
2021-01-12T13:17:39 < jadew> the only concern I had was with the 1-methyl-3-phenylindan it uses in the RNA
2021-01-12T13:18:06 < jadew> but apparently that's not that big of a problem, because the cell can't reuse it
2021-01-12T13:18:24 < jadew> dongs, P2419H
2021-01-12T13:18:51 < dongs> 24" 1080p ????? lol ok i hope it was like $50
2021-01-12T13:19:19 < jadew> dongs, <$200
2021-01-12T13:19:38 < dongs> you can get 4K in that size for ~$200
2021-01-12T13:20:23 < jadew> I needed VGA connectivity because that was the only port I had free on my video card
2021-01-12T13:20:35 < jadew> and also wanted it to match the design of my other dell monitor
2021-01-12T13:20:40 < dongs> HDMI to VGA is like $3 in china
2021-01-12T13:20:45 < effractur> jadew: DP MST?
2021-01-12T13:20:49 < effractur> or also no DP free?
2021-01-12T13:21:05 < dongs> also using vga and complaining about cleartype LOL
2021-01-12T13:22:06 < jadew> effractur, nope, I got the card when I had a mix of monitors available
2021-01-12T13:22:16 < effractur> jadew: i mean does it have DP out?
2021-01-12T13:22:16 < jadew> so it has HDMI, DVI and VGA :)
2021-01-12T13:22:20 < effractur> H
2021-01-12T13:22:35 < dongs> you should throw your gaming rig in a dumpster
2021-01-12T13:23:37 < jadew> I might get another monitor to replace the last 4:3 one I have
2021-01-12T13:23:48 < jadew> maybe use another wide screen one in portrait mode
2021-01-12T13:24:04 < jadew> (can't have 3 in landscape because of space)
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2021-01-12T13:38:00 < jadew> power outage
2021-01-12T13:39:59 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-01-12T13:40:32 < dongs> third world country
2021-01-12T13:41:12 < jadew> there was a fault yesterday and I don't think they fully fixed it
2021-01-12T13:41:34 < jadew> it lasted several hours and the voltage was slightly bellow 200V for the entire day
2021-01-12T13:41:44 < jadew> now it seems to be back to nominal values
2021-01-12T13:45:10 < GenTooMan> dongs, fun facts time lets say the LED has fairly high efficacy and flashes only for status indication. Thus uses almost no power except when needed. Example 10ms and it flashes every 5 to 10 seconds (go with 5 seconds?). So Ah is 4e-10*(10E-10)*3600/5 (4ma*10ms*1hr(in seconds)/5seconda) is 28.8maH capacity for the LED when it's flashing. for indication.
2021-01-12T13:48:59 < GenTooMan> and yes one can easily an the LED at 0.2Cd with a 10ms pulse from about 20meters.
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2021-01-12T13:49:44  * GenTooMan has experimented with this before actually.
2021-01-12T13:55:58 < jpa-> GenTooMan: your calculation seems broken, the output unit is 28.8mAs not mAh; but your fact wasn't even fun
2021-01-12T13:57:49 < GenTooMan> jpa 3600/5 = flashes per hour
2021-01-12T13:58:11 < GenTooMan> jpa-,  3600/5 = flashes per hour
2021-01-12T13:58:47 < jpa-> so.. you claim that your led with maximum current of 4mA manages to use 28.8 mAh in an hour? :)
2021-01-12T13:59:59 < GenTooMan> yeah that doesn't make sense but 2 brains is better than none
2021-01-12T14:00:05 < englishman> is a 4mA led with on time of 10ms even useful/visible?
2021-01-12T14:00:47 < GenTooMan> Yes
2021-01-12T14:06:01 < GenTooMan> the shorter the pulse though, the eyes apparently begin to see a lot less of the light. About 8ms people seem to see significantly less so 10ms is about the sweet spot.
2021-01-12T14:07:04 < GenTooMan> though a bright LED is needed admittedly. :D
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2021-01-12T14:09:50 < GenTooMan> I also admit I am barely awake (sigh)
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2021-01-12T15:09:20 < qyx> 10ms/5s dyty cycle is 7.2 s per hour, which is 28.8 mAs per hour as jpa- says
2021-01-12T15:09:51 < qyx> which is 252 mAh per year
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2021-01-12T15:34:30 < dongs> thats a lot wasted on led
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2021-01-12T15:41:06 < mawk> 12:41 <jadew> it lasted several hours and the voltage was slightly bellow 200V for the entire day
2021-01-12T15:41:08 < mawk> what 200V
2021-01-12T15:41:12 < mawk> it's supposed to be 230VAC
2021-01-12T15:41:22 < mawk> do you have 200VAC in your country?????
2021-01-12T15:41:46 < qyx> I am using white LEDs for that purpose, they are bright enough at 3V3 with 1k
2021-01-12T15:41:46 < mawk> or it was off so much that it was 200VAC instead of 230VAC
2021-01-12T15:43:36 < dongs> japan is 100V and 200V on split phase
2021-01-12T15:43:41 < dongs> but i doubt euroturds are 200,
2021-01-12T15:43:47 < dongs> prolly 220 or 230 or 240-ish
2021-01-12T15:45:35 < PaulFertser> I bet on "off so much"
2021-01-12T15:45:44 < PaulFertser> dongs: it's 230
2021-01-12T15:46:22 < PaulFertser> And 400 V phase-to-phase
2021-01-12T15:48:08 < mawk> normally when turbines slow down and there's an issue with the global network, it's the frequency that goes low
2021-01-12T15:48:18 < mawk> issue with voltage is just about transmission from the plant to the house
2021-01-12T15:48:23 < mawk> eg too long wires or whatever
2021-01-12T15:48:50 < mawk> frequency going low happened when serbia had issues, and because of EU politics bullshit no other plants from other countries were allowed to take over or something
2021-01-12T15:48:57 < mawk> so the frequency was below specification for a while
2021-01-12T15:49:04 < mawk> which messed up simple alarm clocks everywhere
2021-01-12T15:52:41 < GenTooMan> japan has 50 and 60 cycle as well as 100VAC circuits in some places.
2021-01-12T15:53:24 < GenTooMan> Australia is a bit different it has something rather strange like 410VAC for some industrial places.
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2021-01-12T15:56:45 < GenTooMan> hmm I've heard that 3 times about Serbia's power issue. As for politics the entire world has gone insane. Every single geo-location is having strange political issues.
2021-01-12T15:57:18 < GenTooMan> millions being executed in certain countries that can't be named.
2021-01-12T15:59:53 < qyx> like an incompetent prime minister
2021-01-12T16:03:28 < jadew> mawk, 230
2021-01-12T16:03:41 < jadew> the fact that it was below 200 was clearly a malfunction
2021-01-12T16:04:12 < jadew> today it was anywhere between 224 and 235
2021-01-12T16:15:14 < fenugrec> So apparently, supporting SMART commands with a USB-SATA adapter is harder than it looks. Or most chipsets don't even bother passing those commands through
2021-01-12T16:17:05 < mawk> it worked everytime I tried fenugrec 
2021-01-12T16:17:15 < mawk> maybe I've been lucky
2021-01-12T16:17:29 < fenugrec> mawk, have you tried retrieving attributes and starting a self-test ? that's where mine craps out
2021-01-12T16:17:40 < fenugrec> connection timeout + usb reset
2021-01-12T16:18:00 < mawk> I just remember seeing "smart support" in some information dump, I haven't tried further
2021-01-12T16:18:06 < mawk> my usb sata adapter is broken in other ways
2021-01-12T16:18:14 < mawk> when it's on a usb 3 superspeed port it crashes every 30 minutes
2021-01-12T16:24:32 < Steffanx> You are broken
2021-01-12T16:25:42 < GenTooMan> the interesting thought about things that are broken is when did they become broken?
2021-01-12T16:26:06 < mawk> I'm not broken
2021-01-12T16:26:09 < mawk> I'm in perfect shape
2021-01-12T16:26:19 < englishman> is the RiscV ESP32 available anywhere? is it supported in tarduino?
2021-01-12T16:26:30 < mawk> yes it's ~supported in arduino
2021-01-12T16:26:34 < mawk> available no idea
2021-01-12T16:26:58 < Steffanx> All those unprofessional questions.. is englishman alright? Do you know?
2021-01-12T16:27:10 < Steffanx> Esp32... arduino...
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2021-01-12T16:27:27 < englishman> esp32 is pro now
2021-01-12T16:27:30 < englishman> and you can buy it
2021-01-12T16:27:32 < englishman> unlike stm32
2021-01-12T16:29:59 < mawk> lol
2021-01-12T16:30:05 < GenTooMan> hmm
2021-01-12T16:30:16 < dongs> trudat on buying STM32
2021-01-12T16:30:21 < mawk> ST is doing great on revenue
2021-01-12T16:30:27 < mawk> employees are in their right to strike
2021-01-12T16:30:33 < mawk> it's their god given right
2021-01-12T16:31:16 < englishman> unless they are striking for a HAL that doesnt suck they can go fuck themselves
2021-01-12T16:31:19 < CatCow97> heh
2021-01-12T16:31:20 < mawk> lol
2021-01-12T16:31:35 < CatCow97> I just ordered some F103's and L552's because there wasn't much else to choose from in QFP package
2021-01-12T16:32:41 < karlp> Steffanx: got parcel from nkon with actual stamps on it! https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/8Q6SCqb9M7o4yGy
2021-01-12T16:33:05 -!- veegee_ [~veegee@142.126.156.119] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T16:33:06 < CatCow97> thts a lot of stamps
2021-01-12T16:33:19 < mawk> stop aids now!
2021-01-12T16:33:41 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2021-01-12T16:33:47 < karlp> 1080p webcam is only offering 640x360 though, classic china
2021-01-12T16:33:49 < CatCow97> wonder how long it will be until 072's are available again
2021-01-12T16:34:53 < englishman> esp32 put in twin DACs... but they are 8bit
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2021-01-12T16:35:48 < mawk> they chain them and they are 16 bits
2021-01-12T16:35:50 < mawk> result guaranteed
2021-01-12T16:37:01 < Steffanx> Looks like someone had f
2021-01-12T16:37:09 < Steffanx> Some left over stamps lol
2021-01-12T16:49:57 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
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2021-01-12T17:09:49 < qyx> karlp: lol
2021-01-12T17:20:02 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:6650:6c39:14d3:502c:ef64] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2021-01-12T17:31:19 < karlp> https://webcamtests.com/ says it's 1920x1080 though.
2021-01-12T17:31:25  * karlp wonders what to tell cheese
2021-01-12T17:45:38 < mawk> weird
2021-01-12T17:45:41 < mawk> maybe it's using a different api
2021-01-12T18:02:13 < jpa-> karlp: try guvcview, it sometimes shows settings that other programs miss
2021-01-12T18:02:37 < jpa-> (and also shows settings that don't do anything..)
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2021-01-12T19:08:28 < Steffanx> MAWK.
2021-01-12T19:08:35 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-01-12T19:08:44 < Steffanx> What is this nrf ble dongle you loved again?
2021-01-12T19:08:46 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T19:08:53 < mawk> the official one?
2021-01-12T19:08:57 < mawk> nrf52840 dongle
2021-01-12T19:09:06 < Steffanx> Or ali
2021-01-12T19:09:16 < mawk> yeah just search it on ali
2021-01-12T19:09:20 < mawk> it's the same thing essentially
2021-01-12T19:09:23 < mawk> usb key form factor
2021-01-12T19:09:28 < mawk> for developing get the official one maybe
2021-01-12T19:09:36 < mawk> solder a few pins and you get SWD
2021-01-12T19:09:45 < Steffanx> Much better than still annoying pcb usb connector
2021-01-12T19:10:04 < Steffanx> I have this nrf52480 dongle already 
2021-01-12T19:10:29 < mawk> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001530238972.html
2021-01-12T19:10:36 < mawk> why annoying?
2021-01-12T19:10:38 < mawk> for developing it's fine
2021-01-12T19:10:42 < mawk> just leave it in a usb hub like me
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2021-01-12T19:14:31 < Steffanx> More cables
2021-01-12T19:15:17 < mawk> meh
2021-01-12T19:15:25 < mawk> you'll have your jlink or whatever iwth it anyway
2021-01-12T19:15:30 < mawk> so better than they're next to each other
2021-01-12T19:15:37 < mawk> have a hub with the dongle and the jlink together
2021-01-12T19:17:45 < bitmask> spray booth almost done!
2021-01-12T19:17:51 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/3EQGblF
2021-01-12T19:17:57 < bitmask> and folds up to this: https://i.imgur.com/PWhRo92.jpg
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2021-01-12T19:21:27 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-01-12T19:37:51 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b102@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T19:38:01 < Laurenceb> https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=studentship-2278266
2021-01-12T19:38:31 < Laurenceb> The vision for musical smart city systems underpins customisable open data environments that enable users to experience urban nature, social and cultural life through perceptual coupling by mapping data to sound. Smart city musification could help humans make the IoT, and consequently their urban environment and activities
2021-01-12T19:38:53 < Laurenceb> I found something more insane than qanon
2021-01-12T19:39:14 < bitmask> you need new hobbies
2021-01-12T19:39:18 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-12T19:39:35 < Laurenceb> >Smart city musification
2021-01-12T19:41:23 < Laurenceb> keeek literally 90% of the project read like someone smoked too much weed
2021-01-12T19:41:55 < Laurenceb> >intillegent AI escalator
2021-01-12T19:42:20 < Laurenceb> >the Cyber grant
2021-01-12T19:42:28 < Laurenceb> keeek this is like MDE
2021-01-12T19:42:43 < jpa-> i can understand intelligent elevators, but how much smartness does an escalator need? is it gonna switch directions randomly?
2021-01-12T19:42:45 < Laurenceb> Cyber Vegans and Data Pagans
2021-01-12T19:42:57 < mawk> stop when there are no people on it jpa- 
2021-01-12T19:43:03 < Laurenceb> future sift 2070
2021-01-12T19:43:29 < jpa-> mawk: i bet intillegent AI would get bored doing just that
2021-01-12T19:43:35 < mawk> lol
2021-01-12T19:44:47 < Laurenceb> >Genetically modified Salad
2021-01-12T19:45:07 < Laurenceb> keeeekkkk   https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=752276
2021-01-12T19:45:58 < Laurenceb> https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=105122
2021-01-12T19:46:02 < Laurenceb> >female led
2021-01-12T19:47:56 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b102@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
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2021-01-12T19:49:02 < Laurenceb> Cyber Vegans and Data Pagans!
2021-01-12T19:49:46 < Steffanx> More realistic than a baloon it seems
2021-01-12T19:50:16  * Laurenceb genetically modifies ur salad
2021-01-12T19:50:56 < Laurenceb> Smart city musification!11!
2021-01-12T19:51:15 < Steffanx> Still more realistic than a baloon
2021-01-12T19:51:43  * Laurenceb plays weird sounds at Steffanx
2021-01-12T19:53:33 -!- fenugrec_ [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T19:54:18 < Steffanx> Does it make you feel useless Laurenceb ?
2021-01-12T19:54:21 < Steffanx> Obsolete
2021-01-12T19:54:35 < Laurenceb> yeah I need to take up smoking weed
2021-01-12T19:54:51 < Laurenceb> get dictionary and throw random buzzwords together
2021-01-12T19:56:00 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-12T20:02:48 < Laurenceb> sheeet
2021-01-12T20:02:50 < Laurenceb> https://hackaday.com/2021/01/11/starlink-satellite-dish-x-rayed-to-unlock-rf-magic-inside/#more-456215
2021-01-12T20:02:57 < Laurenceb> thats insane
2021-01-12T20:03:15 < Laurenceb> I expected about 64 channels or so
2021-01-12T20:03:20 < Laurenceb> mental
2021-01-12T20:03:35 < Laurenceb> very impressive for $500, maybe its sold at a loss
2021-01-12T20:05:13 < Laurenceb> that will be able to form really narrow beams, so they'll be able to use the same base stations with massively increased number of sats
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2021-01-12T20:06:14 < Laurenceb> bet they could have a yugggggeee density of base stations eventually
2021-01-12T20:07:03 < Laurenceb>  <$10 per mixer module, crazy
2021-01-12T20:10:17 < Laurenceb> I guess it only needs fairly simple phase shifting as it only generates a single beam at a time
2021-01-12T20:12:30 < veverak> any tips for quality shop in EU that seels cables?
2021-01-12T20:12:39 < Laurenceb> monster
2021-01-12T20:12:44 < veverak> I am looking specifically for prepared cables witj JST PH2.0 3-pin
2021-01-12T20:17:56 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b102@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-01-12T20:23:39 < qyx> there was one
2021-01-12T20:24:03 < qyx> but not in the EU, so meh
2021-01-12T20:25:13 < veverak> I see
2021-01-12T20:25:24 < veverak> where? if postage is not big it's ok
2021-01-12T20:28:37 < fenugrec_> dirtycables do some but they<re clone JST parts i believe
2021-01-12T20:28:41 -!- fenugrec_ is now known as fenugrec
2021-01-12T20:29:16 < qyx> neviem
2021-01-12T20:29:20 < qyx> elecrow or something like that
2021-01-12T20:29:24 < qyx> oh maybe dirtycables it was
2021-01-12T20:30:32 < fenugrec> as it happens I'm kinda looking for the same service but for JST XAD series
2021-01-12T20:30:58 < qyx> me too but for molexes
2021-01-12T20:33:22 < fenugrec> DK at least has some precrimped wires which is nice
2021-01-12T20:39:22 < mawk> I bought 3 gallons of nicotine from USA
2021-01-12T20:39:30 < mawk> shipping costed more than the thing itself
2021-01-12T20:39:35 < mawk> $80 shipping
2021-01-12T20:42:05 < qyx> order veverak 3 gallons of cables then
2021-01-12T20:42:48 < mawk> :(
2021-01-12T20:42:53 < veverak> when I was buildin my 3D printed
2021-01-12T20:43:06 < mawk> nicotine is the life elixir
2021-01-12T20:43:06 < veverak> I ordered parts for it from shop that also sold a set of prepared wires for 3d printeg
2021-01-12T20:43:12 < veverak> connector was only on one side, but still
2021-01-12T20:43:18 < veverak> that stuff was golden and saved a lot of struggle
2021-01-12T20:46:15 < veverak> hmmmmm
2021-01-12T20:46:30 < veverak> ok, maybe "quantity in x0" is problematic requirement
2021-01-12T20:46:32 < veverak> I need like 20 
2021-01-12T20:46:41 < veverak> (and that's for multiple robots)
2021-01-12T20:47:05 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T20:47:10 < Laurenceb> >Shaun Bishop could have applied for funding
2021-01-12T21:09:03 < Laurenceb> https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1371628
2021-01-12T21:09:51 < veverak> turns out
2021-01-12T21:09:54 < veverak> I've got it wrong 
2021-01-12T21:10:07 < veverak> mouser does not sell cables with specific connectors
2021-01-12T21:10:17 < veverak> but, it does sell pre-crimped wires for specific connectors
2021-01-12T21:10:21 < veverak> which is what I need, NICE
2021-01-12T22:04:35 < qyx> what category?
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2021-01-12T22:21:40 < veverak> ?
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2021-01-12T22:26:08 < veverak> hmm
2021-01-12T22:26:10 < veverak> 26AWG
2021-01-12T22:27:01 < veverak> ah, the other one is 22AWG
2021-01-12T22:28:58 < qyx> no I mean where on mouser are they
2021-01-12T22:31:10 < veverak> oh, just google "mouser pre-crimped leads"
2021-01-12T22:31:14 < veverak> but I got JST only on farnell
2021-01-12T22:31:20 < karlp> jpa-: thanks guvcview works, was trying qv4l2
2021-01-12T22:31:24 < veverak> found only hirose/molex on mouser
2021-01-12T22:31:50 -!- Ad0 [~Ad0@93.124.245.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-12T22:34:38 < karlp> englishman: I've not seen the riscv esp32 (esp32-c3) anywhere available beyond their own website yet.
2021-01-12T22:36:16 < englishman> esp32 modules are like $2 from digikey. in singles. totally nuts
2021-01-12T22:36:19 < englishman> rip ST
2021-01-12T22:37:11 < karlp> yeah, I'm unsure about whether I can actually use one as host mode though,
2021-01-12T22:37:38 < englishman> host what?
2021-01-12T22:37:38 < karlp> rtl8723 is also ~$2 or so as a pcb module,
2021-01-12T22:37:41 < englishman> usb?
2021-01-12T22:37:46 < englishman> noone needs usb. it has wifi
2021-01-12T22:37:48 -!- Ad0 [~Ad0@93.124.245.194] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-12T22:37:50 < karlp> well, the linux end of it.
2021-01-12T22:37:55 < karlp> I want esp32 for the bluetooth :)
2021-01-12T22:38:27 < englishman> sounds like a job for a tarduino library
2021-01-12T22:39:34 < karlp> there's https://github.com/espressif/esp-hosted/
2021-01-12T22:39:37 < Steffanx> yeah so it can break every 5 minutes
2021-01-12T22:39:46 < karlp> but it admits that it doesn't use a standard interface, so yay
2021-01-12T22:40:38 < englishman> ESP-Hosted? like AWS for esp32?
2021-01-12T22:40:40 < karlp> and it's _still_ this shitty sdio+full uart
2021-01-12T22:40:56 < karlp> no, like using the esp32 as a NIC instead of running your apps on it too
2021-01-12T22:41:22 < karlp> wherease rtl8273 I can just use usb and get wifi+bt 
2021-01-12T22:41:31 < karlp> 8723
2021-01-12T22:44:57 < karlp> but for esp32 apps, I'm a little unsure why they went with a new -s3 (xtensa) and a new -c3 (rsicv) that outwardly appear to be the same.
2021-01-12T22:46:07 < zyp> one that keeps support for existing shit and one that brings support for new shit?
2021-01-12T23:14:34 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix mint
2021-01-12T23:14:40 < Laurenceb> the fucking taskbar has broken
2021-01-12T23:14:45 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2021-01-12T23:17:33 < Steffanx> How do you manage to break your lunix all the time?
2021-01-12T23:17:51 < Laurenceb> I get some sort of hand symbol over the taskbar
2021-01-12T23:17:55 < Laurenceb> looks like a drag tool
2021-01-12T23:20:09 < Laurenceb> shit now my taksbar looks like shit
2021-01-12T23:20:14 < Laurenceb> how can lunix be so broken
2021-01-12T23:20:52 < Steffanx> Maybe get this from the ali Laurenceb ? it appeared in the tech category, lolol: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001699545749.html
2021-01-12T23:21:42 < Laurenceb> reee fuck lunix
2021-01-12T23:21:53 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of this taskbar
2021-01-12T23:23:08 < BrainDamage> https://xkcd.com/1084/
2021-01-12T23:23:24 < BrainDamage> this is the portrait of Laurenceb using lunix
2021-01-12T23:23:24 < Laurenceb> alt-tab works but the taskbar is fucked
2021-01-12T23:23:27 < Steffanx> Note to anyone else, better not open the url.. will ruine your aliexpress searches forever
2021-01-12T23:23:54 < Steffanx> lol perfect, BrainDamage 
2021-01-12T23:23:58 < BrainDamage> automatic preview already shown it here
2021-01-12T23:25:28 < Laurenceb> hmm now I get the hand and arrow symbol over all window elements
2021-01-12T23:25:50 < Steffanx> Did you try turning it off and on ?
2021-01-12T23:25:58 < Laurenceb> no I dont want to lose my work
2021-01-12T23:26:11 < Laurenceb> maybe I can just restart the desktop
2021-01-12T23:26:38 < Steffanx> lose your work.. save it. lunix doesnt alt-tab?
2021-01-12T23:27:20 < BrainDamage> I don't see how restarting the desktop would not lose work but restarting the os would
2021-01-12T23:31:26 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2021-01-12T23:31:56 < Laurenceb> on ubuntu you could do this
2021-01-12T23:46:28 < BrainDamage> I would never rely on desktop session restore
2021-01-12T23:47:07 < BrainDamage> system hibernation yes, since it's just a memory copy, but session restore you're restoring a partial state
2021-01-12T23:47:16 < BrainDamage> thhere's just so many things that can go wrong
2021-01-12T23:48:25 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-12T23:48:44 < Laurenceb> I'll use alt-tab until I've got this shit finished
2021-01-12T23:53:11 < Steffanx> learn to ctrl+s after every change..
--- Day changed Wed Jan 13 2021
2021-01-13T00:06:05 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://filebin.net/j2f7mpie6t0gin4y
2021-01-13T00:07:17 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/KTJn_DBTnrY?t=642
2021-01-13T00:08:46 < mawk> lol injecting mushroom tea BrainDamage 
2021-01-13T00:09:45 < mawk> I wouldn't exactly call that sterile
2021-01-13T00:09:57 < mawk> with a micrometer filter though maybe that would work
2021-01-13T00:10:16 < mawk> it's small enough to filter debris and some bacteria
2021-01-13T00:10:33 < mawk> http://www.apothicom.org/sterifilt-presentation.htm
2021-01-13T00:10:39 < BrainDamage> he even used cotton as filter, that alone can give you some harsh infections since it harbors some nasty bacterias
2021-01-13T00:11:04 < mawk> or this: http://www.apothicom.org/filtreantibacterien25-presentation.htm
2021-01-13T00:11:08 < mawk> 200nm filter
2021-01-13T00:11:14 < mawk> it removes everything but virus
2021-01-13T00:11:16 < mawk> pretty cool stuff
2021-01-13T00:11:20 < BrainDamage> and i bet he didn't sterilize that either
2021-01-13T00:11:24 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-13T00:14:06 < Steffanx> But did he have a nice trip?
2021-01-13T00:14:37 < mawk> probably not
2021-01-13T00:14:48 < Steffanx> Damn poor guy
2021-01-13T00:31:39 < zyp> sup?
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2021-01-13T00:42:28 < Laurenceb> https://banned.video/watch?id=5ffd29480fda1b3ca6a4e70b
2021-01-13T00:42:29 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-13T00:42:34 < Laurenceb> the Chicoms
2021-01-13T00:42:55 < Steffanx> boring
2021-01-13T00:43:19 < Laurenceb> still less insane than musical smart city
2021-01-13T00:43:51 < Steffanx> At least they got their free money
2021-01-13T00:47:36 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-13T00:50:28 < Laurenceb> DSP question: how can I use fft of a sample signal to generate random similar signals
2021-01-13T00:50:51 < Laurenceb> I tried using wavelet transform to find accurate power, but it looks like the phase is also important
2021-01-13T00:55:02 < machinehum> InverseFFT and add noise?
2021-01-13T00:55:33 < BrainDamage> just multiply it by your random sequence fft'ed
2021-01-13T00:55:34 < BrainDamage> it'll be equal to a convolution in time
2021-01-13T00:59:43 < BrainDamage> and to account for phase ofc just use the complex values of the fft, not the abs
2021-01-13T01:00:00 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-01-13T01:00:12 < Laurenceb> but the reference fft is very noisy
2021-01-13T01:00:29 < Laurenceb> guess thats the best estimate...
2021-01-13T01:00:39 < Laurenceb> someone has got to have looked at this problem before
2021-01-13T01:00:51 < BrainDamage> spline interpolate the values
2021-01-13T01:01:28 < Laurenceb> I want to generate new signals
2021-01-13T01:01:35 < Laurenceb> with similar properties
2021-01-13T01:01:51 < Laurenceb> maybe a neural network would work...
2021-01-13T01:02:57 < BrainDamage> you're reinventing the wheel, a convolution integral is literally the projection on another basis
2021-01-13T01:03:51 < BrainDamage> as long as the integral converges on L2, you can project on anything
2021-01-13T01:04:06 < BrainDamage> hence why wavelet transforms are a thing, etc etc
2021-01-13T01:05:07 < machinehum> Laurenceb: What do you mean by "properties"?
2021-01-13T01:05:23 < Laurenceb> power spectral density and moments
2021-01-13T01:05:29 < Laurenceb> mean, standard deviation etc
2021-01-13T01:05:46 < Laurenceb> but a "random" signal
2021-01-13T01:06:47 < BrainDamage> a laplace transform is a transform in moment space
2021-01-13T01:06:54 < BrainDamage> so your "random" signal would need to have the same laplace transform
2021-01-13T01:07:20 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-01-13T01:11:11 < BrainDamage> ofc if you make all the moments identical you'll end up with the same signal
2021-01-13T01:11:35 < BrainDamage> what you can do is change the higher order moments, aka values for large S
2021-01-13T01:11:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-13T01:12:27 < Laurenceb> looks like I should think about laplace space...
2021-01-13T01:12:38 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:6650:6c39:14d3:502c:ef64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-01-13T01:13:56 < Laurenceb> hmm or maybe I could use Markov chains...
2021-01-13T01:31:34 < machinehum> May I ask what this is for
2021-01-13T01:35:32 < qyx> re: usb SD bridge + mux, awaiting PCBs
2021-01-13T01:36:01 < qyx> now I am trying to make the same for 4x emmc and usb 3.0
2021-01-13T01:37:20 < qyx> CYUSB302x looks promising
2021-01-13T01:37:25 < qyx> but $$
2021-01-13T01:58:20 < machinehum> Nice part
2021-01-13T01:58:38 < machinehum> I guess there are two sdio ports for larger capacity thumb drives
2021-01-13T01:59:16 < machinehum> I'm pretty sure all the thumb drives in the world just use some 12 cent chinese part, cypress is going to have an uphill battle
2021-01-13T02:00:58 < qyx> does thumb drives actually use eMMC?
2021-01-13T02:02:09 < machinehum> Usually
2021-01-13T02:02:13 < machinehum> I think...
2021-01-13T02:09:14 < Laurenceb> machinehum: simulating stratospheric wind
2021-01-13T02:15:12 < machinehum> dope
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2021-01-13T03:09:06 < qyx> 114 dB SNR is audiophile-grade?
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2021-01-13T03:26:26 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210113022211179.png
2021-01-13T03:26:28 < mawk> parsing linux console font format to display on an oled screen
2021-01-13T03:26:30 < mawk> but it's 16 pixels tall, and the screen is 16×96
2021-01-13T03:26:32 < mawk> maybe I need to find a smaller font
2021-01-13T03:26:34 < mawk> or implement scrolling
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2021-01-13T03:47:01 < fenugrec> mawk, I got one for you. 2x3 font https://zserge.com/posts/tiny-font/
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2021-01-13T10:33:01 < zyp> mawk, have you looked at jpa-'s mcufont lib?
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2021-01-13T10:39:17 < jpa-> for such a tiny font, no point in it
2021-01-13T10:40:51 < dongs> i just rolled my own 16mbit font rom using GNU/UNIFONT
2021-01-13T10:41:12 < dongs> no compression just a small index into the codepoints
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2021-01-13T15:33:09 < karlp> quacktel is like "so, there's uart and usb, but usb will result in higher consumptiuon, you should use uart normally, and usb onyl for updattes"... wtf?!
2021-01-13T15:38:14 < zyp> doesn't sound all that unreasonable if you're optimizing for battery life or something
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2021-01-13T16:20:37 < Laurenceb> Cyber Vegan, Data Pagan
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2021-01-13T16:43:11 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/msSc7Mv0QHY
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2021-01-13T17:24:34 < qyx> karlp: that was my concern too, I want to have cat1 on stm32 instead of lunix for consumption reasons
2021-01-13T17:24:47 < qyx> but but uart
2021-01-13T17:25:02 < qyx> if there was spi or low power sdio or whatever
2021-01-13T17:38:52 < karlp> zyp: sure I guess, but if you have to have the usb anyway, you're doing a fair bit of work to have them turned on and off at the right time :)
2021-01-13T17:39:27 < zyp> karlp, not updates as in firmware updates?
2021-01-13T17:43:13 < karlp> yeah, so in theory yiou could do ota updates only, and just use uart I guess.
2021-01-13T17:43:18  * karlp shrugs
2021-01-13T17:50:17 < mawk> 96x16 is really small after all, I'll try the scrolling feature
2021-01-13T17:50:26 < mawk> I can barely write "hello world"
2021-01-13T17:50:32 < mawk> need a smaller font though, 8×4 would be nice
2021-01-13T17:53:06 < karlp> heh, quacktel are like, "here's the other module you might like"  no links on their home page, but alibaba sells it grey https://hooolink.en.alibaba.com/product/62519297516-817704454/Quectel_4G_LTE_Cat_1_Module_LTE_Standard_EC200S.html
2021-01-13T17:54:56 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/2QILkx5.jpg
2021-01-13T17:55:54 < mawk> it's a weird format
2021-01-13T17:56:08 < mawk> each byte in the screen buffer is actually a vertical column
2021-01-13T17:57:18 < mawk> that makes scrolling easier though
2021-01-13T17:57:22 < mawk> probably that's why they did that
2021-01-13T17:58:03 < CatCow97> fascinating little screen
2021-01-13T18:03:57 < jpa-> mawk: how else would you do it? make it horizontal column?
2021-01-13T18:04:06 < mawk> lol
2021-01-13T18:04:18 < mawk> yes something like that
2021-01-13T18:04:23 < mawk> make it horizontal
2021-01-13T18:04:44 < jpa-> IMO it is much nicer to have the bytes be vertical
2021-01-13T18:05:06 < mawk> the font is stored as horizontal data
2021-01-13T18:05:12 < mawk> but I guess I can convert it
2021-01-13T18:05:19 < jpa-> you store your font wrong then ;)
2021-01-13T18:05:25 < mawk> lol
2021-01-13T18:05:32 < mawk> I just copied the linux file format
2021-01-13T18:05:34 < mawk> PSF
2021-01-13T18:05:58 < mawk> it has a unicode translation map it's pretty cool
2021-01-13T18:06:15 < mawk> you can display any UCS-2 character in the limits of what's reasonable
2021-01-13T18:06:24 < mawk> and with some conversion even utf-8
2021-01-13T18:08:27 < Laurenceb> The musical smart city underpins customisable open data environments that enable users to experience the urban nature, social and cultural life through perceptual coupling by mapping data to sound. Smart city musification could help humans make the IoT.
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2021-01-13T18:09:59 < mawk> calm down Laurenceb 
2021-01-13T18:25:21 < englishman> >fax machine sound permeates throughout london 24/7
2021-01-13T18:25:37 < mawk> yesterday I forgot to take 10mg of methadone, that's 1/7 of a dose
2021-01-13T18:25:47 < mawk> and I noticed by how sick I am today
2021-01-13T18:25:52 < mawk> it's really sensitive
2021-01-13T18:26:20 < mawk> I could probably feel down to a 2.5mg change
2021-01-13T18:26:39 < mawk> my brain is a GC/MS machine
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2021-01-13T18:58:16 < bitmask> any thoughts on a durometer of 50 vs 30 for sorbothane anti-vibration feet? is 50 going to be effective enough?
2021-01-13T18:58:33 < bitmask> its for a 12 lb compressor which is in spec for 4 1" feet
2021-01-13T19:02:03 < zyp> what's a 12 lb compressor?
2021-01-13T19:02:26 < jpa-> a 1 stone compressor
2021-01-13T19:02:30 < bitmask> an airbrush compressor that weighs 12lbs
2021-01-13T19:02:43 < bitmask> 5.45 kg
2021-01-13T19:02:52 < zyp> ah
2021-01-13T19:02:53 < jpa-> oops i meant 6/7 stone compressor
2021-01-13T19:04:08 < zyp> speaking of compressors, my pneumatic drill arrived today
2021-01-13T19:06:12 < zyp> bitmask, something like this? https://www.jula.no/catalog/verktoy-og-maskiner/trykkluft/kompressorer/kompressorer/minikompressor-200070/
2021-01-13T19:06:26 < zyp> apparently that one is 3.6 kg
2021-01-13T19:06:37 < bitmask> yes but it also has a 3L tank
2021-01-13T19:06:58 < bitmask> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZQM6R83
2021-01-13T19:07:04 < jpa-> https://www.biltema.fi/rakentaminen/maalit/maaliruiskut/kynaruiskut/pienoiskompressori-mc-90-2000031136   we've been considering this for the air assist of laser cutter at our hacklab (plus occassional airbrushing)
2021-01-13T19:08:41 < bitmask> I got the one I got because it had the lowest noise rating, 47dB
2021-01-13T19:08:58 < bitmask> and I wanted that size
2021-01-13T19:09:09 < mawk> are you still drilling rock zyp 
2021-01-13T19:09:34 < jpa-> i think zyp is falling behind on his schedule to build a corona bunker cave
2021-01-13T19:11:27 < Laurenceb> boring muricans
2021-01-13T19:12:18 < Laurenceb> they need to sentence blimpf to death by firing squad
2021-01-13T19:12:31 < Laurenceb> anything less has too little meme justice
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2021-01-13T19:26:18 < fenugrec> mawk did you see that 3x3 font
2021-01-13T19:29:04 < fenugrec> perfect for 4k screens too
2021-01-13T19:29:22 < mawk> yes fenugrec 
2021-01-13T19:29:24 < mawk> lol
2021-01-13T19:29:28 < mawk> a bit too unreadable
2021-01-13T19:29:52 < mawk> I successfully enabled the widevine DRM on raspberry pi effractur 
2021-01-13T19:29:59 < mawk> by doing horribly undocumented stuff
2021-01-13T19:30:10 < mawk> basically I had to create a fake extension/plugin with that manifest: https://paste.serveur.io/1secObEH.json
2021-01-13T19:30:20 < mawk> and drop it down into the chromium files
2021-01-13T19:30:36 < mawk> and with that needed to add the widevine .so stolen from chrome os
2021-01-13T19:33:34 < mawk> https://dl.google.com/dl/edgedl/chromeos/recovery/recovery.conf find a suitable arm64 device there, and download the recovery
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2021-01-13T20:00:36 < mawk> but it still doesn't work with netflix
2021-01-13T20:00:39 < mawk> it's progress though
2021-01-13T20:04:15 < effractur> cool
2021-01-13T20:11:00 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-01-13T20:11:11 < Steffanx> All this work for still no netflix 
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2021-01-13T20:34:42 < zyp> hah
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2021-01-13T20:35:17 < zyp> mawk, is this you? https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/man-injected-magic-mushrooms-into-his-veins-and-they-started-to-grow-in-his-blood/
2021-01-13T20:36:03 < mawk> lol no
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2021-01-13T20:38:23 < zyp> mawk, well, now that I have a drill I can start drilling again
2021-01-13T20:38:32 < jpa-> zyp: it says quite clearly "Mr. X", and we have Mr. Steffan X. here
2021-01-13T20:38:38 < zyp> ah.
2021-01-13T20:39:03 < zyp> still need to buy a suitable air hose and fittings
2021-01-13T20:39:20 < zyp> along with a couple of drill rods and drill bits
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2021-01-13T20:49:24 < Steffanx> jpa-: youre all part of the x gang. See topic 
2021-01-13T20:49:50 < jpa-> Steffanx: oh no
2021-01-13T20:51:15 < qyx> zyp: hose for the big compressor?
2021-01-13T20:51:57 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-13T20:52:53 < qyx> you have waited for too long
2021-01-13T20:53:02 < zyp> how so?
2021-01-13T20:53:12 < qyx> now you have to drill a frozen rock instead
2021-01-13T20:53:34 < zyp> haha, not really planning to drill more before spring comes
2021-01-13T20:53:50 < zyp> probably getting this hose: https://forbruksimport.no/product/flatslange-mantex-1-20m-med-klokoblinger/
2021-01-13T20:54:35 < zyp> might be a bit overkill, but I haven't seen anything significantly cheaper that looks suitable
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2021-01-13T20:57:40 < qyx> I like the klokoblinger word
2021-01-13T20:59:09 < zyp> that's literally «claw couplings»
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2021-01-13T21:00:58 < fenugrec> looks like "chicago" fittings
2021-01-13T21:02:56 < qyx> here they call them "brass hose fittings"
2021-01-13T21:03:10 < qyx> quite a generic term
2021-01-13T21:04:02 < qyx> or GEKA fittings
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2021-01-13T21:28:46 < mawk> linux font is stored in cp437 format
2021-01-13T21:28:48 < mawk> omg
2021-01-13T21:29:07 < mawk> I'll steal the utf8 decoder I did for the amd64 kernel and reuse it here
2021-01-13T21:29:16 < mawk> and have glorious utf-8 support for the font library
2021-01-13T21:29:32 < Steffanx> what are you even doing?
2021-01-13T21:30:02 < mawk> displaying stuff on an oled screen
2021-01-13T21:30:04 < mawk> it's quite obvious
2021-01-13T21:30:23 < mawk> look https://i.imgur.com/2QILkx5.jpg
2021-01-13T21:30:26 < mawk> how pretty
2021-01-13T21:30:26 < Steffanx> ok, for world domination. Thanks.
2021-01-13T21:30:40 < Steffanx> or when to take your drugs
2021-01-13T21:30:41 < mawk> I had the screen lying around because I bought it by mistake
2021-01-13T21:30:56 < mawk> I'll display output from the temperature sensr on it
2021-01-13T21:31:10 < mawk> and I made a lib for it
2021-01-13T21:31:20 < mawk> with very pretty code
2021-01-13T21:31:22 < mawk> you can use it too
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2021-01-13T21:31:45 < mawk> support for all screen size and hardware layout (segment remapping etc) included
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2021-01-13T21:32:27 < Steffanx> opengl?
2021-01-13T21:32:35 < mawk> a bit too small for opengl I think
2021-01-13T21:32:40 < mawk> it's 128x32 maximum
2021-01-13T21:32:52 < mawk> ssd1306/ssd1307 chip
2021-01-13T21:34:16 < englishman> jpa it is pronounced stef-fanx
2021-01-13T21:34:46 < mawk> steffanix
2021-01-13T21:34:49 -!- Steffanx is now known as Steffann
2021-01-13T21:34:53 < mawk> nooo
2021-01-13T21:34:56 < mawk> keep the x
2021-01-13T21:35:01 < mawk> now you're an ugly color
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2021-01-13T22:01:26 < mawk> it's working Steffann https://imgur.com/a/QdA9B1O 
2021-01-13T22:01:38 < mawk> I can finally know outside temperature without opening the window
2021-01-13T22:01:50 < Steffann> No you dont.
2021-01-13T22:01:59 < Steffann> its not 21.4 C outside.
2021-01-13T22:02:23 < Steffann> and why the underscored °:)
2021-01-13T22:02:31 < mawk> dunno that's the font
2021-01-13T22:02:42 < mawk> it's the terminus font, the one of the linux console
2021-01-13T22:02:57 < mawk> transmitter is inside for now I need to find an outside dry place
2021-01-13T22:03:04 < mawk> it's raining 24/24 in NL
2021-01-13T22:03:20 < Steffann> No its not
2021-01-13T22:04:04 < mawk> 23.9/24
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2021-01-13T22:05:05 < aandrew> wtf
2021-01-13T22:05:16 < Steffann> hi aandrew 
2021-01-13T22:05:17 < Steffann> hows the day
2021-01-13T22:05:31 < aandrew> STM32H7, four SPI peripherals, all set up identically. I get HAL_TIMEOUTs when trying to txrx on 3 of them, the fourth works fine
2021-01-13T22:05:42 < mawk> I think aandrew telepathically sensed all the macro I used and is getting nervous
2021-01-13T22:05:43 < mawk> ah
2021-01-13T22:05:45 < aandrew> SPI doesn't wait on anything so why the hell are SPI1-SPI3 failing
2021-01-13T22:05:51 < aandrew> lol
2021-01-13T22:05:56 < aandrew> Steffann: they day's not bad
2021-01-13T22:06:01 < aandrew> pumpin as usual
2021-01-13T22:06:29 < aandrew> gotta check out the GPIO config once again, I'm sure it's right though
2021-01-13T22:06:39 < mawk> and clock?
2021-01-13T22:06:43 < mawk> are they all enabled
2021-01-13T22:06:58 < mawk> and did you enable all the interrupts
2021-01-13T22:07:00 < aandrew> ohwait
2021-01-13T22:07:02 < aandrew> yeah they are
2021-01-13T22:07:09 < aandrew> but SPI1-3 CLK is 480MHz, SPI4 is 120
2021-01-13T22:07:11 < aandrew> that's pretty big 
2021-01-13T22:07:17 < mawk> ah yes
2021-01-13T22:07:30 < mawk> well anyway how can you get timeouts? there's no slave detect on spi righr
2021-01-13T22:07:36 < mawk> right*
2021-01-13T22:07:37 < aandrew> I think I'll set it to use PLL2P not PLL1Q
2021-01-13T22:07:40 < aandrew> that's 150MHz then
2021-01-13T22:07:46 < aandrew> nope there is no slave detect
2021-01-13T22:07:50 < aandrew> it's timing out waiting for a register bit
2021-01-13T22:07:56 < mawk> ah
2021-01-13T22:08:01 < Steffann> if TXE gets never set... then you timeout.
2021-01-13T22:08:47 < aandrew> yeah
2021-01-13T22:10:19 < aandrew> yep that was it
2021-01-13T22:11:57 < aandrew> yay, I can read the SPI flash on SPI2 and SPI4
2021-01-13T22:12:08 < aandrew> SPI1/3 have nothing on them but at least they're not timing out anymore
2021-01-13T22:14:08 < Steffann> so what was it.. clocks not enabled?
2021-01-13T22:14:25 < Steffann> or high clock?
2021-01-13T22:15:34 < Steffann> HAL allows any of that?
2021-01-13T22:15:44 < qyx> 480 MHz SPI clock?
2021-01-13T22:16:00 < qyx> are you tramsmitting PMR?
2021-01-13T22:16:33 < aandrew> clocks were enabled, SPI clock was just WAY too fast (but allowed by Cube, 480MHz peripheral clock for SPI is not too high apparently)
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 14 2021
2021-01-14T00:14:44 < karlp> zyp: that fungus link is the media version of the pdf braindamage shared yesterday :)
2021-01-14T00:17:27 < zyp> ah, must have missed that
2021-01-14T00:28:20 < karlp> tag connect spotted: https://beaglev.seeed.cc/
2021-01-14T00:29:05 < karlp> though starfive is, I've no idea...
2021-01-14T00:29:09 < karlp> part numbers look like sifive
2021-01-14T00:29:42 < zyp> cpu is a sifive core
2021-01-14T00:30:11 < zyp> «SiFive U74 RISC-V Dual core with 2MB L2 cache @ 1.5GHz»
2021-01-14T00:30:18 < karlp> starfive might just be integrators?
2021-01-14T00:30:28 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-14T00:31:20 < karlp> oh, I thought sifive also sold silicon, not just boards with eval silicon on them?
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2021-01-14T00:32:19 < zyp> I think their main business is selling IP -- the silicon they offer seems to be mostly a form of marketing
2021-01-14T00:33:01 < zyp> speaking of, I was looking at available parts the other day, looks like there's not a whole lot of microcontroller level stuff yet
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2021-01-14T00:33:27 < zyp> gd32v actually looks like it has the best availability
2021-01-14T00:33:54 < qyx> k210 no good?
2021-01-14T00:34:37 < zyp> yeah, k210 is the other thing with good availability, but feels like more special purpose
2021-01-14T00:34:50 < zyp> more power, less IO
2021-01-14T00:35:03 < qyx> I had the same feeling too
2021-01-14T00:35:06 < zyp> dualcore rv64 plus the NN stuff
2021-01-14T00:35:25 < zyp> and then there's the sifive fe310
2021-01-14T00:35:37 < zyp> apart from that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of parts available
2021-01-14T00:36:17 < qyx> hm, regarding esp32, is it usable as a general purpose mcu today?
2021-01-14T00:37:52 < zyp> then again, the reason I got interested in risc-v initially is because there's tons of soft-cores available for fpga use
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2021-01-14T01:03:21 < Steffann> Whoa jly 😱
2021-01-14T01:05:35 < jly> w
2021-01-14T01:06:49 < Steffann> T
2021-01-14T01:07:16 < jly> donald pump
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2021-01-14T01:12:16 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM2oOEmDU3w
2021-01-14T01:14:49 < kakium69> new?
2021-01-14T01:15:39 < kakium69> indeed
2021-01-14T01:15:48 < kakium69> fucking car problems solved
2021-01-14T01:16:59 < kakium69> removed battery and after that ran some calibration routines for ecu
2021-01-14T01:17:16 < kakium69> eventually it spitted out the code p0430
2021-01-14T01:17:43 < kakium69> what I suspected first but had no codes to back up my intuition
2021-01-14T01:20:31  * GenTooMan coughs quietly, "and code p0430 means", inquiring minds want to know (apparently).
2021-01-14T01:21:09 < kakium69> Catalyst system efficiency below threshold (Bank 2)
2021-01-14T01:22:05 < kakium69> bank 2 meaning bank of cylinders that doesn't include cylinder 1
2021-01-14T01:25:23 < mawk> why would you consider something not arm qyx 
2021-01-14T01:25:27 < mawk> you traitor
2021-01-14T01:25:36 < kakium69> what has qyx done now?
2021-01-14T01:25:43 < mawk> talk about esp32
2021-01-14T01:25:54 < kakium69> naughty
2021-01-14T01:26:00 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-14T01:26:13 < mawk> are you alive jly 
2021-01-14T01:26:21 < mawk> or are you a ghost
2021-01-14T01:27:28 < kakium69> yes
2021-01-14T01:29:36 < Steffann> Jly has always been an aussie tard ghost
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2021-01-14T01:31:27 < kakium69> tommorow -30C
2021-01-14T01:31:32 < kakium69> propper
2021-01-14T01:32:51 < qyx> hows your cab on the island?
2021-01-14T01:33:11 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-14T01:33:39 < kakium69> not yet acquired
2021-01-14T01:33:40 < Steffann> Nice kakium69 get me some of that
2021-01-14T01:34:07 < kakium69> qyx: those things cost grown-up moneys
2021-01-14T01:34:11 < kakium69> even simple ones
2021-01-14T01:34:26 < qyx> better hurry up
2021-01-14T01:34:32 < qyx> apocalypse is coming
2021-01-14T01:35:00 < kakium69> are you saying it needs to be on an island?
2021-01-14T01:35:11 < kakium69> tell me more
2021-01-14T01:35:30 < kakium69> I never said it was going to be on an island
2021-01-14T01:35:59 < qyx> it would remove one possible attack vector - zombies going on foot
2021-01-14T01:36:07 < qyx> oh then I remembner wrong
2021-01-14T01:36:43 < kakium69> is it zombies though?
2021-01-14T01:37:17 < qyx> maybe thats because you have more islands than people
2021-01-14T01:37:28 < kakium69> true
2021-01-14T01:37:44 < kakium69> maybe
2021-01-14T01:38:39 < kakium69> absolutelly not
2021-01-14T01:38:47 < kakium69> "Finland has 98,050 freshwater islands and 80,897 sea islands. Slightly over 100,000 of our islands have an area smaller than 0.5 ha and 76,000 islands have an area greater than this."
2021-01-14T01:39:11 < qyx> 5000m2 is ideal size
2021-01-14T01:39:15 < Steffann> Zombies dont like ice?
2021-01-14T01:39:40 < qyx> theres no ice in finland Steffann, hush
2021-01-14T01:40:24 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/eFsjFUZKLY4
2021-01-14T01:40:30 < bitmask> works great! :)
2021-01-14T01:43:19 < kakium69> ah smell sticks
2021-01-14T01:43:34 < kakium69> I had those once and one of the flavours was really nice
2021-01-14T01:43:40 < antto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg90orjgbQw
2021-01-14T01:44:27 < bitmask> my favorite incense is sandalwood
2021-01-14T01:46:38 < kakium69> I wonder where I could sample the smells
2021-01-14T01:47:04 < kakium69> shop I bought them went bankrupt long ago
2021-01-14T01:47:35 < kakium69> now I could maybe order them from some shop that sells xtal therapy
2021-01-14T01:48:59 < bitmask> when the gf and I get massages, the spa sells lotions and aromatherapy oils and used to have incense
2021-01-14T01:49:39 < bitmask> tobacco and/or weed smoke shops maybe
2021-01-14T01:54:08 < aandrew> bitmask: my shaving cream is menthol and sandalwood
2021-01-14T01:54:23 < bitmask> good choice
2021-01-14T01:55:07 < bitmask> sandalwood is also supposed to be antibacterial or something
2021-01-14T01:55:19 < bitmask> so thats why they make beard combs out of it
2021-01-14T01:55:23 < aandrew> dunno but it sure wakes me p
2021-01-14T01:55:24 < aandrew> up
2021-01-14T01:55:29 < bitmask> heh
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2021-01-14T03:11:03 < kakium69> where is our blimp wizard
2021-01-14T03:13:30 < mawk> I removed the _ under the ° Steffann 
2021-01-14T03:13:32 < mawk> are you happy?
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2021-01-14T04:20:56 < mawk> I did something beautiful aandrew 
2021-01-14T04:21:13 < mawk> a macro that uses inline assembly to include a binary file as a symbol 
2021-01-14T04:21:16 < mawk> you like it?
2021-01-14T04:21:45 < mawk> it uses a double nested macro
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2021-01-14T04:43:37 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/eCA3tiMT.c
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2021-01-14T05:26:46 < aandrew> I don't know why I fucking looked at that link
2021-01-14T05:26:49 < aandrew> jesus mawk
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2021-01-14T07:00:31 < aandrew> so what's the cause of the great STM32 stock shortage of 2021? TSMC?
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2021-01-14T08:47:13 < emeb_mac> I've been hearing about this over the last few days
2021-01-14T08:48:31 < emeb_mac> some of my clients having trouble getting parts for production runs
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2021-01-14T10:08:30 < Steffann> The french are doing what they do great i heard... theyre on a strike
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2021-01-14T10:32:48 < mawk> of course
2021-01-14T10:32:54 < mawk> they should
2021-01-14T10:49:36 < qyx> why this time btw?
2021-01-14T10:49:50 < qyx> I don't read french news
2021-01-14T10:50:04 < zyp> isn't that just want french people do?
2021-01-14T10:50:07 < zyp> what*
2021-01-14T10:50:51 < jpa-> Steffann: how many burning cars?
2021-01-14T11:02:26 < mawk> I'm not sure the ones burning car are proper french
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2021-01-14T11:13:21 < Steffann> n jpa- 
2021-01-14T11:24:14 < qyx> so on a mp1, is it possible to use peripherals from both app cores and M4 core?
2021-01-14T11:28:12 < zyp> that's how I understand it
2021-01-14T11:28:35 < zyp> I believe they are all in the same memory space, so you just need to make sure they agree on who gets to control what
2021-01-14T11:29:19 < qyx> reading some presentation and it looks like it is as you are saying
2021-01-14T11:29:24 < effractur> so they are all connected to the same bus
2021-01-14T11:29:27 < effractur> well not the same
2021-01-14T11:29:31 < effractur> but all busses are interconnected
2021-01-14T11:30:01 < effractur> just not all the highspeed stuff is connected quicly enough to the m4
2021-01-14T11:30:08 < qyx> m4 has some additional private bus for accessing nvic and mpu registers
2021-01-14T11:30:52 < effractur> see the reverence manuel
2021-01-14T11:30:54 < qyx> so it should be possible to batch some data with m4 while mp1 sleeps
2021-01-14T11:31:07 < qyx> using the same peripheral
2021-01-14T11:31:35 < effractur> there is the memorymap and what is avaible for each core
2021-01-14T11:31:37 < zyp> using same peripheral means you need to handle handover in a sane way
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2021-01-14T11:32:38 < qyx> maybe more reasonable is to make a proxy on m4 and access that from mp1
2021-01-14T11:35:09 < qyx> so the question is if I want to play with the 300+ ball bga and ddr3 or buy a SOM
2021-01-14T11:35:13 < zyp> yes
2021-01-14T11:38:03  * karlp grins
2021-01-14T11:38:10 < karlp> always the way.
2021-01-14T11:38:38 < qyx> yes what
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2021-01-14T11:42:58 < zyp> yes proxy
2021-01-14T12:34:05 < skz81> <mawk> I'm not sure the ones burning car are proper french >> What do you mean ? They are dirty ?
2021-01-14T12:34:07 < Steffann> https://imgur.com/a/5dTifJ4 lol... yeah thats a useful bar.
2021-01-14T12:35:13 < skz81> Steffann, Is using more than 100% considered as an "overacheivement" ?
2021-01-14T12:35:17 < skz81> RAM*
2021-01-14T12:37:20 < Steffann> its just fucked up. looks all fine but it isnt
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2021-01-14T12:50:31 < Steffann> mawk: did you get yourself one of those yet? https://www.nataschadump.nl/Files/4/13000/13950/ProductPhotos/Large/229423867.png
2021-01-14T12:50:44 < mawk> certainly not
2021-01-14T12:50:46 < Steffann> Winter is coming...
2021-01-14T12:50:47 < mawk> I don't want a sausage cap
2021-01-14T12:51:10 < Steffann> Just walk with your head sideways and its the frogs flag.
2021-01-14T12:51:17 < mawk> :(
2021-01-14T12:51:39 < mawk> skz81: it's not a french tradition to burn cars
2021-01-14T12:51:50 < zyp> no?
2021-01-14T12:51:56 < mawk> it's a tradition in france
2021-01-14T12:52:08 < zyp> same same
2021-01-14T12:52:20 < mawk> perpetrated by some newly imported french people in some neighborhoods
2021-01-14T12:52:31 < mawk> so it's a tradition of seine saint-denis department, but not really of rural france
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2021-01-14T13:04:37 < skz81> mawk, you reads very right winged
2021-01-14T13:05:45 < mawk> I have pretty diverse opinion
2021-01-14T13:05:53 < mawk> right wing telegram groups all hate me
2021-01-14T13:05:58 < mawk> left wing groups as well
2021-01-14T13:06:02 < jpa-> it's a good thing there is always rural people that we can point to "look, this stuff we do is not really us, those people over there are the *real* us"
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2021-01-14T13:06:07 < mawk> lol
2021-01-14T13:08:16 < mawk> anyway the people in seine saint-denis is burning their own cars and destorying their own neighborhoods
2021-01-14T13:08:18 < mawk> it's pretty stupid
2021-01-14T13:08:34 < mawk> if at least they would come down to paris to burn a few minister cars I'd applaud
2021-01-14T13:08:52 < qyx> thats good, they are free, full of liberty
2021-01-14T13:08:58 < mawk> lol
2021-01-14T13:09:06 < mawk> full of insurance malus
2021-01-14T13:09:22 < qyx> do you think insurance companies will pay anything?
2021-01-14T13:09:49 < qyx> it's their purpose to pay nothing if possible
2021-01-14T13:10:10 < mawk> well unless you left your car parked in the street during december 31, they should pay
2021-01-14T13:11:28 < mawk> lol I generated a mnemonic phrase for a website to be able to recover my password, and their mnemonic/diceware dictionary is only profanity
2021-01-14T13:11:41 < mawk> words like dickfucker or asshopper
2021-01-14T13:11:46 < mawk> dongs is the admin
2021-01-14T13:22:37 < zyp> is it illegal to park your car in the street on december 31.?
2021-01-14T13:24:10 < qyx> I would say it is a known risk to park outside on Dec 31. so you should have made proper countermeasures to prevent any damage
2021-01-14T13:24:29 < zyp> how so?
2021-01-14T13:24:36 < qyx> idk we have such things
2021-01-14T13:24:49 < zyp> risk of what?
2021-01-14T13:25:03 < qyx> written in those contracts
2021-01-14T13:25:15 < qyx> risk of damage
2021-01-14T13:25:26 < zyp> what damage?
2021-01-14T13:25:38 < qyx> we are talking about cars and insurance
2021-01-14T13:26:01 < qyx> damage by fireworks and people doing dumb things on 31.
2021-01-14T13:26:22 < zyp> is that a thing?
2021-01-14T13:27:06 < zyp> I'm sorry if I sound stupid, this just all sounds so weird to me
2021-01-14T13:27:27 < qyx> heh, a policeman once told me there was a crowd of people going home from a concert
2021-01-14T13:28:05 < qyx> on the next morning there were ~30 back mirrors broken on that street
2021-01-14T13:28:09 < qyx> so yes, it is a thing here
2021-01-14T13:28:15 < qyx> (on parked cars)
2021-01-14T13:29:22 < qyx> but uhm I would say this wasn't very predictable nor avoidable
2021-01-14T13:29:52 < Steffann> Happens here too, but afaik there is no such thing as "dont park your car outside on december 31"
2021-01-14T13:30:08 < zyp> and this is a problem common enough that you get reduced insurance coverage if you don't hide your car on new years eve?
2021-01-14T13:30:15 < zyp> that sounds absolutely insane
2021-01-14T13:30:27 < qyx> idk
2021-01-14T13:30:40 < qyx> mawk is exagerating
2021-01-14T13:30:49 < Steffann> i dont even have another option.. i cannot imagine people in for example paris have another option than park it outside.
2021-01-14T13:31:08 < Steffann> no frogs are weird, they have rules like that for sure, qyx  ;)
2021-01-14T13:32:17 < mawk> zyp: it's a common problem yes, every new years eve cities compete with each other for the most burnt cars
2021-01-14T13:32:27 < mawk> or they seem to be
2021-01-14T13:32:27 < qyx> yeah there are some fires made by fireworks every year but of course it doesn't mean you are covering your roofs with asbestos on 31.
2021-01-14T13:35:24 < mawk> font is still too big
2021-01-14T13:35:32 < mawk> I tried to add 1990 style boxes around the text
2021-01-14T13:35:34 < zyp> better switch to that 2x3 one
2021-01-14T13:35:35 < mawk> now it's too crowded
2021-01-14T13:35:37 < mawk> yes
2021-01-14T13:35:59 < mawk> I used Uni2-Terminus12x6.psf that I stole from linux console
2021-01-14T13:36:24 < qyx> more ontopic: trying to minimise accelerometer noise
2021-01-14T13:36:33 < qyx> adding filtering on VDD and signal lines
2021-01-14T13:36:49 < qyx> I have read mixed recommendations, ferrite beads or series resistors?
2021-01-14T13:36:51 < mawk> loaded with my beautiful font loader engine: https://paste.serveur.io/Ondayn6c.c
2021-01-14T13:37:10 < mawk> what would series resistor do to noise?
2021-01-14T13:37:53 < qyx> I would say they are attenuating allband?
2021-01-14T13:39:05 < mawk> like, counting on some paraistic capacitance?
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2021-01-14T13:46:49 < jpa-> qyx: usually resistors work better for low frequency noise (less than 1MHz) and ferrite beads for high-frequency noise; you can of course put both
2021-01-14T13:47:40 < jpa-> but make sure you have enough capacitors after the filter, so that the supply rail does not start drooping as the filter stops it from drawing varying current
2021-01-14T13:48:08 < qyx> yeah I have 10u, 1u, 100n
2021-01-14T13:49:03 < jpa-> what is your supply voltage coming from, and what else is hanging on it?
2021-01-14T13:49:13 < qyx> 1V8 from a smps
2021-01-14T13:49:16 < qyx> mcu :>
2021-01-14T13:49:22 < jpa-> what frequency smps?
2021-01-14T13:49:29 < qyx> 2 MHz
2021-01-14T13:50:01 < jpa-> yeah, kind of at the edge there.. i'd put a high dc-resistance ferrite bead and enough capacitance :)
2021-01-14T13:50:46 < qyx> https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/addressing-noise-concerns-to-mitigate-sensor-failure
2021-01-14T13:50:49 < qyx> interesting article
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2021-01-14T13:52:04 < jpa-> like 0.5 ohm dc-resistance ferrite + your 10µF should give 36dB of attenuation at 2MHz, and the ferrite would block even better the higher frequency harmonics
2021-01-14T13:52:34 < qyx> looks like they are recommending 1800 ohm/100MHz ferrite
2021-01-14T13:52:42 < qyx> even more than 600R I put here
2021-01-14T13:52:56 < jpa-> filtering signal lines like that looks funny, i've just added series resistors at the driving end
2021-01-14T13:53:27 < jpa-> the ferrite reading at 100MHz is pretty much independent of their behavior at below 10MHz
2021-01-14T14:04:55 < qyx> should be enough then https://bin.jvnv.net/file/9Vw2M/Screenshot_2021-01-14_13-04-28.png
2021-01-14T14:06:52 < jpa-> will you be putting that poor chip in a cage all alone?
2021-01-14T14:08:47 < qyx> it deserves it
2021-01-14T14:27:45 < mawk> so how does it work with your series resistor? why does it affect noise more than the rest
2021-01-14T14:28:27 < mawk> other font: https://i.imgur.com/Texk3fX.jpg
2021-01-14T14:28:43 < mawk> with a 1990 style ascii art square
2021-01-14T14:28:48 < mawk> rectangle
2021-01-14T14:33:02 < jadew> ffs... I was just finishing up the datasheet for a product when I realized I made a huge mistake :/
2021-01-14T14:33:24 < jadew> I have to start from scratch
2021-01-14T14:33:42 < jadew> well, not scratch, but close
2021-01-14T14:34:43 < jpa-> you accidentally wrote on the datasheet what the product does, and now chinese cloned it?
2021-01-14T14:34:53 < jadew> jpa-, hah
2021-01-14T14:35:29 < jadew> no, I screwed something up in the design, it works tho and it turned out amazing, but I fucked up one characteristic
2021-01-14T14:36:27 < jadew> I don't remember wth was going on in my head when I made the board, but yesterday when I started characterizing it, I was wondering exactly that - what was I thinking
2021-01-14T14:36:34 < jadew> and I couldn't find any notes on why I did it like that
2021-01-14T14:36:37 < jadew> must have been tired
2021-01-14T14:38:56 < jadew> grr... so fucking annoying
2021-01-14T14:39:18 < jadew> the notes were correct, the layout was wrong
2021-01-14T14:39:31 < mawk> maybe no one will notice
2021-01-14T14:39:39 < Steffann> the underscore is back. fuck you mawk  :P
2021-01-14T14:39:45 < Steffann> im not happy no more.
2021-01-14T14:40:07 < jadew> mawk, I'll know and I can't lie in the datasheet
2021-01-14T14:40:18 < Steffann> redesign time
2021-01-14T14:40:21 < jadew> I mean... I can, but then people won't buy from me anymore
2021-01-14T14:40:23 < jadew> yeah
2021-01-14T14:40:28 < mawk> lol Steffann 
2021-01-14T14:40:30 < mawk> it's prettier that way
2021-01-14T14:40:35 < mawk> because the other ° character is tiny tiny
2021-01-14T14:40:48 < Steffann> so fix the font
2021-01-14T14:41:30 < mawk> how?
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2021-01-14T14:44:00 < mawk> I'm not a fontologist
2021-01-14T14:44:07 < mawk> and you don't like it? it's pretty
2021-01-14T14:45:44 < Steffann> måwk -_-
2021-01-14T14:46:21 < Steffann> Draw pixels over the underline :D :P
2021-01-14T14:48:09 < mawk> lol
2021-01-14T14:48:11 < mawk> that's ugly
2021-01-14T14:48:27 < Steffann> No the underscore is pretty
2021-01-14T14:53:09 < mawk> you like the rectangle around?
2021-01-14T14:54:32 < Steffann> 🙊
2021-01-14T15:01:06 < mawk> liar
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2021-01-14T15:52:58 < mawk> I've put the tx outside Steffann 
2021-01-14T15:53:06 < mawk> now I see why they send 8 packets at each burst
2021-01-14T15:53:11 < mawk> almost nothing is getting through
2021-01-14T15:53:24 < mawk> it's passing through a building though, but still it's not far away maybe 30m
2021-01-14T15:55:27 < mawk> datasheet said 300m
2021-01-14T15:55:40 < mawk> and I have a half wavelength antenna
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2021-01-14T16:12:13 < Steffann> hah
2021-01-14T16:12:42 < Steffann> Doesnt your employer have no work for you no more, mawk ? :P
2021-01-14T16:12:55 < mawk> I'm multitasking
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2021-01-14T16:46:00 < qyx> hm, I have GND and +24V protected against PE
2021-01-14T16:46:25 < qyx> now what to do with signal protections (in the same shielded cable)
2021-01-14T16:46:35 < qyx> tvs against PE (shield) or GND?
2021-01-14T16:47:05 < mawk> what's pe
2021-01-14T16:47:13 < mawk> portable executable?
2021-01-14T16:47:54 < jpa-> protective earthling
2021-01-14T16:48:14 < jpa-> qyx: what are you protecting them against?
2021-01-14T16:48:45 < jpa-> and where do the signals go, i.e. will they burn based on voltage vs. PE, or based on voltage vs. GND
2021-01-14T16:48:49 < qyx> lightning induced transients
2021-01-14T16:49:05 < jpa-> in typical case if the chip is connected between GND and signal, i would put TVS between GND and signal also
2021-01-14T16:49:21 < qyx> sounds fair
2021-01-14T16:49:33 < jpa-> that way even if PE is broken or high impedance for whatever reason, you have well defined protection for the signals
2021-01-14T16:49:37 < qyx> no, pe-gnd volteage should not harm it
2021-01-14T16:49:59 < jpa-> (instead of looping through the signal-pe, pe-gnd protectors, which would double the clamp voltage)
2021-01-14T16:50:11 < qyx> thank you, you are a good duck today
2021-01-14T16:50:38 < jpa-> coin coin, as a french duck would say right before burning your car
2021-01-14T16:50:45 < qyx> :D
2021-01-14T16:51:52 < jpa-> now my time for questions: would you put full size USB-B or just USB-C on a new device, which is of the size that traditionally USB-B would be used?
2021-01-14T16:52:15 < effractur> depends 
2021-01-14T16:52:20 < effractur> if you need to plugin usbsticks
2021-01-14T16:52:21 < qyx> usb2 only?
2021-01-14T16:52:30 < effractur> USB-B
2021-01-14T16:52:37 < jpa-> usb1.1, and no fancy currents or anything
2021-01-14T16:52:47 < qyx> there is usb3 usb-b too
2021-01-14T16:53:25 < effractur> but anything other then that just go with usb-c
2021-01-14T16:53:41 < qyx> I would use usb-c
2021-01-14T16:54:03 < qyx> ie. the only alternatives I would consider are usb-a/usb-c for host side, usb micro-b or usb c for device side
2021-01-14T16:54:22 < jpa-> yeah; i guess it will be cheaper anyway, as they usb-c can be soldered with paste-in-hole easily
2021-01-14T16:54:34 < jpa-> i wouldn't consider usb micro-b for the device side
2021-01-14T16:54:38 < effractur> well if the host needs to accept storage bla i would go with usb-a
2021-01-14T16:54:43 < jpa-> but usb-c just feels somehow small on a big device :)
2021-01-14T16:54:47 < effractur> but other then that just usb-c
2021-01-14T16:55:00 < jpa-> effractur: this is for device side
2021-01-14T16:55:07 < effractur> then just usb-c
2021-01-14T16:55:13 < qyx> effractur: traditional usb-b case is not to accept storage
2021-01-14T16:55:23 < effractur> ee usb-A then
2021-01-14T16:55:28 < effractur> i got them confused  i guess
2021-01-14T16:55:36 < qyx> usb-a is host only
2021-01-14T16:55:42 < jpa-> i kind of like the old big usb-b connector because it feels so robust :)
2021-01-14T16:56:00 < qyx> yeah but they are wiggling the same as micro-b
2021-01-14T16:57:02 < qyx> *mini-b
2021-01-14T17:05:12 < zyp> jpa-, what size are we talking? shortest size being a few cm or a few tens of cm?
2021-01-14T17:06:20 < jpa-> https://www.hammfg.com/part/1553TBK  this kind of size
2021-01-14T17:06:41 < zyp> usb-c for sure
2021-01-14T17:06:49 < jpa-> :)
2021-01-14T17:07:08 < zyp> I wouldn't use usb-b on anything you could fit in a pocket or a laptop bag or something
2021-01-14T17:07:54 < jpa-> i'm probably biased by my exposure to all kinds of old devices i still use
2021-01-14T17:09:00 < jpa-> even my shiny new rigol was designed before usb-c even existed :|
2021-01-14T17:09:00 < zyp> if you don't need any of the usb-c benefits (>500mA, PD, OTG, altmodes, etc…), the main argument is cable availability
2021-01-14T17:09:28 < jpa-> i've already convinced myself that cable availability will improve with time
2021-01-14T17:09:34 < zyp> for usb-b?
2021-01-14T17:09:37 < jpa-> for usb-c
2021-01-14T17:09:59 < jpa-> for now it seems usb-b cables are easier to come by in my scrap bin ;)
2021-01-14T17:10:03 < zyp> personally I'd say usb-c already has better cable availability than usb-b
2021-01-14T17:10:15 < Steffann> not my experience.
2021-01-14T17:10:27 < Steffann> i see A LOT more usb-b cables
2021-01-14T17:10:39 < zyp> I still got more micro-b than usb-c, but that's also trending towards usb-c
2021-01-14T17:10:45 < Steffann> usb-c cables are "phone charger cables" which most people only have too few of
2021-01-14T17:10:54 < jpa-> usb-c also seems to be plagued by the charger cables, like micro-b; all kinds of cheap crap comes with cables with no data pins at all
2021-01-14T17:11:08 < zyp> Steffann, I see it the opposite way
2021-01-14T17:11:39 < zyp> usb-c cables see temporary use all the time so people always got a bunch extra
2021-01-14T17:12:06 < zyp> usb-b cables are mostly used for huge shit that stays in one spot, so all the usb-b cables you've got are in permanent use
2021-01-14T17:12:25 < jpa-> that's a good point
2021-01-14T17:12:37 < zyp> jpa-, I haven't seen any usb-c cables without data lines
2021-01-14T17:12:59 < rajkosto> what about apple ones
2021-01-14T17:13:20 < zyp> the ones that comes with mbp chargers?
2021-01-14T17:13:25 < Steffann> i still have more usb-b cables than usb-c cables...
2021-01-14T17:13:30 < Steffann> most of them not in use
2021-01-14T17:13:52 < jpa-> zyp: hmm, interesting; actually i'm not sure if i have seen such "normal" cables either, though i have some "micro-usb/usb-c/lightning" multi cables that don't have data
2021-01-14T17:14:18 < zyp> multi-cables are already nonstandard
2021-01-14T17:14:36 < zyp> imagine data integrity across that :)
2021-01-14T17:14:47 < jpa-> this one is with adapters
2021-01-14T17:14:53 < zyp> fair
2021-01-14T17:15:01 < jpa-> but starts with micro-b
2021-01-14T17:15:02 < zyp> still, don't buy crap like that :p
2021-01-14T17:15:13 < jpa-> so i guess it's just crappy micro-b cable and then crappier adapters on top of that :)
2021-01-14T17:15:15 < qyx> 16:13 < Steffann> i still have more usb-b cables than usb-c cables...
2021-01-14T17:15:17 < qyx> same here
2021-01-14T17:15:19 < rajkosto> a multi cable (with adapters from microsd to usb-c) lasted longer than some usb-c cables i bought
2021-01-14T17:15:26 < rajkosto> microsd lol
2021-01-14T17:15:35 < qyx> do you have a microsd cable?
2021-01-14T17:15:56 < rajkosto> microusb
2021-01-14T17:16:19 < zyp> I think I have a grand total of like 4-5 usb-b cables
2021-01-14T17:16:36 < zyp> and easily >10 usb-c if I count both a-c and c-c
2021-01-14T17:17:32 < Steffann> but i also know you are not the average person when it comes to anything usb :P
2021-01-14T17:17:39 < zyp> :D
2021-01-14T17:18:24 < jpa-> it's not like you can charge your car from the macbook with a usb-b cable..
2021-01-14T17:18:32 < qyx> wut https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GSel3/Screenshot_2021-01-14_16-18-13.png
2021-01-14T17:18:51 < jpa-> qyx: wut you wutting
2021-01-14T17:18:52 < qyx> can you with usb-c?
2021-01-14T17:19:02 < qyx> the highlighted part
2021-01-14T17:19:11 < qyx> are there separate pins for FD mode?
2021-01-14T17:19:26 < jpa-> FDCAN is the name of the peripheral that supports both normal CAN and FDCAN
2021-01-14T17:19:50 < qyx> I know
2021-01-14T17:20:02 < jpa-> so, are there non-FDCAN pins also? :)
2021-01-14T17:20:03 < qyx> but why does the fdcan peripheral have 4 pins
2021-01-14T17:20:17 < qyx> yeah apparentl
2021-01-14T17:20:31 < jpa-> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/stm32h7-fdcan-fd_mode-pin/
2021-01-14T17:20:54 < jpa-> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000C5Uo6iSQC/rxfdmode-and-txfdmode-pins-what-are-they-for   such quality, much st
2021-01-14T17:21:38  * qyx downloading 40 MB worth of refman
2021-01-14T17:22:55 < qyx> theres no such thing in the RM
2021-01-14T17:24:25 < qyx> so they are just debug pins
2021-01-14T17:25:44 < jpa-> less useful than CRC->IDR
2021-01-14T17:26:50 < qyx> true
2021-01-14T17:28:50 < jpa-> (i actually found an use case for CRC->IDR once; i had a function that was called by other code beyond my control, and i needed to do initialization first time after system reset - and there was no way to expand .bss or .data to add my own initialized variable)
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2021-01-14T18:19:40 < Steffann> poor jpa- 
2021-01-14T18:23:17 < Steffann> You still wake up at night.... screaming and sweaty, jpa- ?
2021-01-14T18:24:30 < karlp> I've got ~4 usb-a->c cables, one of  them broken from cheap/use, zero c-c, and ~7 usb-a->B for big.
2021-01-14T18:24:47 < karlp> probably 15 a->microb, all not in use.
2021-01-14T18:25:03 < karlp> actually, I lie, I have one c-c, came with this PD power supply I bought
2021-01-14T18:25:17 < karlp> (for that size case, I'd got with usb-c too)
2021-01-14T18:26:56 < Steffann> More proof zyp is not the average USB user ;)
2021-01-14T18:27:07 < qyx> it seems I am the poorest one
2021-01-14T18:27:17 < qyx> with a single a-c cable
2021-01-14T18:27:32 < qyx> unused
2021-01-14T18:27:57 < qyx> becvause I have exactly 0 devices with usb-c
2021-01-14T18:28:20 < qyx> except one work devboard which included the said a-c cable :p
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2021-01-14T18:36:11 < rajkosto> i have only the one that came with my xiaomi mi phone
2021-01-14T18:36:26 < rajkosto> which is weird usb-a on one side (with extra pin for CC, compatible only with their charger) and usb-c on the other
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2021-01-14T19:47:23 < mouseghost> helo, is there some kind of compedium of stm32 thingies? it all gets pretty... uhh.. complicated tbh. + im not sure if i should use hal/mx cube if i want to be cool
2021-01-14T19:48:51 < jpa-> cube mx is definitely not cool around here
2021-01-14T19:49:34 < mouseghost> so how do you program here hmm
2021-01-14T19:49:45 < mouseghost> unless 25+ years of experience is required ;d
2021-01-14T19:49:46 < Mangy_Dog> tbh im still trying to figure out what the cool kids use these days
2021-01-14T19:50:02 < mouseghost> ive once read somewhere that LL is the cool thing
2021-01-14T19:50:02 < Mangy_Dog> im still stuck in ogerclarks libmaple arduino enviroment :p
2021-01-14T19:50:26 < mouseghost> D: wah is that, even
2021-01-14T19:50:44 < Mangy_Dog> roger clark took over leaf labs libmaple and developed it for a few years
2021-01-14T19:50:52 < Mangy_Dog> its an arduino like core library
2021-01-14T19:50:59 < jpa-> mouseghost: i challenge you to find two people on this channel who use exactly same platform & tools
2021-01-14T19:51:05 < Mangy_Dog> mostly aimed at stm32f103 chips
2021-01-14T19:51:16 < jpa-> that's how much variation and options there are when it comes to STM32 software
2021-01-14T19:51:18 < specing> that's easy
2021-01-14T19:51:30 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-14T19:51:37 < Mangy_Dog> though im going to try and have a look at openlibcm3
2021-01-14T19:51:41 < Mangy_Dog> libopencm3 sorry
2021-01-14T19:51:46 < mouseghost> jpa-, but i mean, i guess there is some kind of unsaid truth about how things are done
2021-01-14T19:52:03 < jpa-> mouseghost: things are done wrong
2021-01-14T19:52:07 < jpa-> that's the unsaid truth
2021-01-14T19:52:10 < mouseghost> x:
2021-01-14T19:53:50 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-14T19:57:27 < jpa-> except specing of course does things right with ada, but he is special like that
2021-01-14T20:01:45 < mouseghost> hmmm
2021-01-14T20:01:50 < mouseghost> ada is interesting...
2021-01-14T20:06:19 < qyx> no.
2021-01-14T20:10:38 < mouseghost> qyx, w-what do you mean ;w;
2021-01-14T20:16:41 < Steffann> I would go Ada, mouseghost . You can direct all your questions to specing in that case.
2021-01-14T20:17:01 < mouseghost> huh
2021-01-14T20:17:20 < Steffann> hes the only one here using that ;)
2021-01-14T20:18:15 < fenugrec> Real programmers use ed.
2021-01-14T20:19:07 < specing> Not true, marble_visions is also an Ada programmer
2021-01-14T20:38:03 < qyx> a diverged soul
2021-01-14T20:57:35 < zyp> haha
2021-01-14T20:57:54 < zyp> if you wanna be cool you should obvious use laks
2021-01-14T20:58:13 < qyx> with c++21!
2021-01-14T20:58:42 < zyp> qyx, the coro shit is fucking awesome
2021-01-14T20:58:43 < qyx> where are thjose times when c99 was cool
2021-01-14T20:59:41 < qyx> and everyone was pointing at those 'tards using c99
2021-01-14T20:59:48 < zyp> haha
2021-01-14T21:00:11 < zyp> isn't dongs still doing that?
2021-01-14T21:02:11 < qyx> yeah but he is also watching anime, isn't he?
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2021-01-14T21:13:27 < Steffann> Can you imagine he used to translate that shit?
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2021-01-14T21:27:39 < mouseghost> whats laks?
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2021-01-14T21:35:32 < Steffann> Zyp's c++ lib
2021-01-14T21:35:57 < Steffann> But its far from complete . Just has the stuff he ever needed 
2021-01-14T21:36:27 < zyp> but if you only do the stuff I do, it's all you'll need ;)
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2021-01-14T21:41:56 < mouseghost> uhh i just want usb ;w;
2021-01-14T21:42:20 < zyp> that's what laks does best :p
2021-01-14T21:42:38 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-14T21:42:55 < mouseghost> why is cube so hard 
2021-01-14T21:43:29 < zyp> what are you gonna use usb for?
2021-01-14T21:43:41 < Steffann> Cube isn't hard mouseghost 
2021-01-14T21:43:53 < Steffann> Its hard when you want to do things cube cannot so
2021-01-14T21:43:57 < mouseghost> zyp, communication ;d
2021-01-14T21:44:04 < zyp> well, duh
2021-01-14T21:44:11 < mouseghost> Steffann, i guess getting into another family is haaard then
2021-01-14T21:44:14 < zyp> what kind? plain bulk? some standard class?
2021-01-14T21:44:25 < mouseghost> zyp, well, i set up cdc
2021-01-14T21:44:53 < mouseghost> kinda like serial over usb is fine with me...
2021-01-14T21:44:54 < zyp> ah, acm? that's boring :)
2021-01-14T21:45:06 < mouseghost> >~>
2021-01-14T21:45:36 < zyp> here's a can to dual acm adapter built with laks: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/0zcDo
2021-01-14T21:46:25 < mouseghost> zyp, looks very clean
2021-01-14T21:47:55 < mouseghost> Steffann, it just gets a bit confusing about what and how i am supposed to use; for example with that USB -- i got it working, but i have abs. no idea how to attach interrupts and if i am supposed to mess with the ""provided"" drivers
2021-01-14T21:49:38 < mouseghost> am i supposed to extern the handle somehow, return it by modyfing the provided init func; like, whats the canonical way uhh
2021-01-14T21:51:47 < zyp> who knows
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2021-01-14T21:52:56 < mouseghost> oh...
2021-01-14T21:53:12 < Steffann> Idk :P
2021-01-14T21:53:46 < zyp> I just know how you use laks; you just instance the usb driver and poll it regularly :p
2021-01-14T21:54:35 < zyp> to receive data, you inherit from the class driver class and implement handlers for the events you're interested in
2021-01-14T21:54:37 < mouseghost> D:
2021-01-14T21:54:40 < mouseghost> ah
2021-01-14T21:54:50 < zyp> to send, you can do that whenever it's not busy
2021-01-14T21:55:07 < zyp> to be honest it's not a super good API, but it's simple and works well for simple things
2021-01-14T21:56:14 < zyp> only gets iffy when you need to do some real flow control
2021-01-14T21:56:38 < mouseghost> eh ive already learned to do isr on avrs ;w;
2021-01-14T21:57:21 < zyp> well, you're not gonna write your own USB ISR unless you're writing your own USB stack :)
2021-01-14T21:58:58 < zyp> if you're waiting for e.g. acm data, you'll get a callback or similar from whatever stack you're using when data is available
2021-01-14T21:59:19 < mouseghost> well, now the trick is to find it ;w;
2021-01-14T21:59:33 < zyp> regardless of whether the stack is polling or interrupt driven internally
2021-01-14T22:00:08 < mouseghost> yeah i understand..
2021-01-14T22:02:01 < mouseghost> ok, found it ;v
2021-01-14T22:03:09 < mouseghost> and lost it
2021-01-14T22:03:10 < mouseghost> ;w;
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2021-01-14T22:29:30 < Steffann> what is ;w; ? .. thats a new smiley to me.
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2021-01-14T22:41:13 < zyp> more yaml bikeshedding; is this a reasonable way of declaring periperal instances? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hKo0p
2021-01-14T22:42:14 < zyp> I'm wondering whether it'd be useful or not to put a category level in front of the peripheral type
2021-01-14T22:42:48 < zyp> although that seems kinda unnecessary
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2021-01-14T22:56:17 < qyx> hm, too much free space on the pcb
2021-01-14T22:57:46 < zyp> aww
2021-01-14T22:59:16 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jk3Uo/Screenshot_2021-01-14_21-58-54.png
2021-01-14T22:59:24 < qyx> I should add some nice logo
2021-01-14T23:00:32 < Steffann> and fix your designators.
2021-01-14T23:00:42 < qyx> it is not routed yet
2021-01-14T23:00:54 < englishman> KiCad silk
2021-01-14T23:01:25 < englishman> components without 3d models are do not place?
2021-01-14T23:01:59 < Steffann> this is your mp1 board qyx ?
2021-01-14T23:02:20 < qyx> no, H750 + dual qspi
2021-01-14T23:03:15 < karlp> qyx: what's that "bga24" 3d modelin light grey?
2021-01-14T23:03:26 < karlp> dopesn't look like a normal kicad one?
2021-01-14T23:03:40 < qyx> no I had to add many custom models
2021-01-14T23:08:09 < qyx> oh pcbs are already in duesseldorf, de 
2021-01-14T23:08:18 < qyx> quite fast, shipped on 11.
2021-01-14T23:08:38 < karlp> zyp: did you consider using the modified dts that zephyr uses for this?
2021-01-14T23:09:01 < karlp> it's not "flawless perfection of yaml" but it's at least standard, and you can reuse tools.  
2021-01-14T23:09:10 < karlp> of course, those tools might not be what you want to use....
2021-01-14T23:09:25 < karlp> but you could also just lift the entire soc dtsi portions....
2021-01-14T23:10:18 < zyp> karlp, not the zephyr stuff in particular, but I've considered the possibility of ingesting third party sources in general into the current framework
2021-01-14T23:11:28 < karlp> eg https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/zephyr/blob/master/dts/arm/st/f4/stm32f405.dtsi and friends in that directory and similar
2021-01-14T23:11:42 < karlp> I mean, pros and cons, but, just an idea
2021-01-14T23:12:21 < karlp> why the fuck they have timer nodes as "timerSn" instead of "timern" I'll probably never konw, but whatever :)
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2021-01-14T23:14:00 < karlp> there's heaps of shit you don't care about, and it's stuck in this open firmware dts format from what, mid 90s, but it's known, and tooling is ~standard for it.
2021-01-14T23:14:29 < karlp> you don't have to use it for overlays at all, you can just suck the whole dts directory into your build system and use it behind the scenes
2021-01-14T23:14:58 < karlp> I meant to say, "you don't have to use it for _user_ files" or user provided overlays at all,
2021-01-14T23:20:17 < zyp> ingesting svd files would be another option
2021-01-14T23:21:03 < zyp> but I'm not really super interested in adding a third party dependency like that, whether dts or svd
2021-01-14T23:22:21 < zyp> the ingesting part is mostly interesting for dynamic stuff, like e.g. a litex-based platform
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2021-01-15T00:14:33 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KQIRG
2021-01-15T00:14:37 < zyp> this seems workable
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2021-01-15T00:18:43 < invzim> segger j-link via usb hub, yaa or nay?
2021-01-15T00:18:52 < zyp> why the fuck not?
2021-01-15T00:19:14 < invzim> usb sucks, timing and whatnot when hub is usb3 etc etc?
2021-01-15T00:19:37 < zyp> it's not like the number of hubs between the host and the device affects the capacity of the bus at all
2021-01-15T00:20:05 < Steffann> Works fine invzim 
2021-01-15T00:20:09 < invzim> actually, I have no idea how usb2 works via a usb3 hub
2021-01-15T00:20:42 < invzim> new desk (in new house), thinking of optimizing cable stuff and a hub could be part of it
2021-01-15T00:20:43 < zyp> usb2 and usb3 are independent buses that run in parallel
2021-01-15T00:21:25 < invzim> mkay, separate wires or multiplexed somehow?
2021-01-15T00:21:30 < zyp> separate wires
2021-01-15T00:22:17 < zyp> usb2 wires/pins are only ever used for usb2, usb3 adds its own differential pairs for usb3 tx/rx
2021-01-15T00:22:17 < invzim> allright then, I may get a hub :)
2021-01-15T00:22:53 < zyp> maybe get a MTT one then :)
2021-01-15T00:23:05 < invzim> any powered ones with proper usb-pd yet?
2021-01-15T00:23:24 < zyp> in what sense? pd-output?
2021-01-15T00:23:42 < invzim> yup
2021-01-15T00:23:52 < invzim> or, ability to supply devices on my desk
2021-01-15T00:24:01 < zyp> haven't seen anything that does that yet, but there's a ton of things that do pd passthrough
2021-01-15T00:24:35 < zyp> they are usually called «usb-c dock»
2021-01-15T00:25:37 < zyp> I got one for my laptop, means I can plug in a single cable that does usb2, usb3, displayport and pd all at once
2021-01-15T00:25:52 < zyp> but there's no usb-c downstream ports
2021-01-15T00:25:57 < invzim> hep, got one at work, didn't bother to bring it home yet
2021-01-15T00:26:34 < zyp> haven't seen a lot of hubs with usb-c downstream at all
2021-01-15T00:27:39 < zyp> people say usb4 is gonna change that, but eh, a true usb4 hub is probably going to be pretty expensive for only a few ports :)
2021-01-15T00:29:19 < zyp> I would just like a plain usb3 hub (or usb2 even) with usb-c downstream ports
2021-01-15T00:29:33 < zyp> bonus points if it can deliver pd
2021-01-15T00:29:43 < zyp> no altmodes or OTG capability needed
2021-01-15T00:30:16 < zyp> maybe I should do like karlp and just build my own :)
2021-01-15T00:35:49 < invzim> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALt6Sd9vlY&ab_channel=RobertFeranec - should be interesting
2021-01-15T00:36:32 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-15T00:36:37 < mouseghost> and is rtos cool or nah?
2021-01-15T00:37:21 < mouseghost> ah also, zyp, is your laks thingy built on top of hal/ll?
2021-01-15T00:40:14 < invzim> I have an intention to learn freertos
2021-01-15T00:46:56 < zyp> mouseghost, no, it doesn't need any other libs apart from what's included with the compiler
2021-01-15T01:22:39 < Mangy_Dog> having been using freertos a fair bit lately... apart from some minor hickups... its not hard to learn
2021-01-15T01:22:44 < Mangy_Dog> its super straight forward
2021-01-15T01:22:52 < Mangy_Dog> at least for its basic general use
2021-01-15T01:23:21 < Mangy_Dog> it could get tricky when youre spawning and deleting threads as you also need to consider memory fragmentation
2021-01-15T01:23:50 < Mangy_Dog> best to just suspent and resume them
2021-01-15T01:23:55 < Mangy_Dog> suspend
2021-01-15T01:25:30 < catphish> laks is beautifully low level, i've always likes ST's header files myself though
2021-01-15T01:27:32 < zyp> catphish, yes and no
2021-01-15T01:28:47 < zyp> my philosophy is that there's not much point in an abstraction layer that doesn't abstract stuff enough that it helps portability
2021-01-15T01:29:19 < mouseghost> ffs why this doesnt work
2021-01-15T01:29:29 < zyp> the usb stack is there, it's reasonably easy to make work on various controllers
2021-01-15T01:30:02 < zyp> other stuff I haven't gotten around to make a good abstraction for, and no abstraction is better than a bad one :)
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2021-01-15T01:45:21 < mouseghost> why is reading from usb so hard ;w;
2021-01-15T01:46:35 < mawk> see Steffann 
2021-01-15T01:46:37 < mawk> usb is hard
2021-01-15T01:46:39 < mawk> everyone says it
2021-01-15T01:46:51 < mawk> even mouseghost 
2021-01-15T01:47:08 < mouseghost> :C
2021-01-15T01:49:11 < mouseghost> stm32 is hard ;x
2021-01-15T01:51:12 < qyx> fuh hirose DF13 is specified for 30 VDC by UL
2021-01-15T01:52:42 < qyx> I nearly forgot to check
2021-01-15T01:53:46 < mawk> 13 is a bad luck number
2021-01-15T01:53:48 < mawk> don't buy thart
2021-01-15T01:56:18 < mouseghost> oh i found where im supposed to place it... great ;_;
2021-01-15T01:57:10 < mouseghost> and its 1 am
2021-01-15T02:03:26 < mouseghost> til theres also cmsis lol
2021-01-15T02:03:46 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: fujin, dongs, fluiD, Thorn, hackkitten, nashpa_, boB_K7IQ, invzim, akaWolf, antto,  (+18 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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2021-01-15T02:12:54 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/#post-5155914
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2021-01-15T02:39:51 < mouseghost> wo what a netsplit
2021-01-15T03:03:23 < catphish> nice tricorder
2021-01-15T03:15:26 < Mangy_Dog> :)
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2021-01-15T03:23:59 < bitmask> what up men
2021-01-15T03:25:35 < catphish> ceiling
2021-01-15T03:26:00 < bitmask> hope this vacuum pump aint toooo loud
2021-01-15T03:26:26 < bitmask> the dB rating isnt advertised as much as it is for compressors
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2021-01-15T03:41:00 < qyx> I am considering OSD32MP15x instead of doing my own ddr3
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2021-01-15T03:51:19 < Steffann> How about some sleep insteas qyx? :P
2021-01-15T03:51:28 < Steffann> Instead*
2021-01-15T03:52:36 < bitmask> sleep is for the dead
2021-01-15T03:54:10 < bitmask> qyx that thing looks pretty cool! havent seen something like that
2021-01-15T03:54:28 < bitmask> if only it came in TSSOP :)
2021-01-15T04:01:41 < Thorn> qyx apparently if you set up net classes, rules and xsignals, ddr3 can be routed using activeroute in a few minutes (according to altium anyway lol)
2021-01-15T04:14:11 < englishman> it looks good on pape qyx
2021-01-15T04:14:13 < englishman> paper
2021-01-15T04:14:22 < englishman> good module, good price
2021-01-15T04:19:28 < Thorn> I don't get it. the module is 18x18mm but the soc package they use in it is 16x16mm
2021-01-15T04:19:40 < Thorn> how does that work?
2021-01-15T04:20:23 < Thorn> plus ddr3, pmic, etc.
2021-01-15T04:35:16 < englishman> don't they get dies and bond them out
2021-01-15T04:35:56 < Thorn> that would be the only way to explain their pictures
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2021-01-15T10:24:51 < zyp> the pictures are probably also marketing wank, actual package might have stacked mp1 and ddr3 dies
2021-01-15T10:26:19 < zyp> hmm, maybe not
2021-01-15T10:26:27 < zyp> at least OSD3358 doesn't: https://twitter.com/oshpark/status/973340190319104000
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2021-01-15T11:29:46 < qyx> I have osd3358 on $work stuff
2021-01-15T11:30:36 < qyx> I should check hows linux support for it first
2021-01-15T12:01:22 < karlp> ooooh a parcel with a tracking number ending in FI just turned up at myu post office...
2021-01-15T12:01:35 < karlp> is kaki sending me car parts for the summer?
2021-01-15T12:09:41 < jpa-> no, i'm sending you coronavirus
2021-01-15T12:09:58 < jpa-> though.. i sent it without tracking number
2021-01-15T12:12:48 < Steffann> The  SARS-CoV-2 is in the bubble wrap bubbles. DONT POP THE BUBBLES.
2021-01-15T12:15:03 < PaulFertser> So folks is it surprising that moscow's still not in any kind of a lockdown? All the shops, restaraunts, public transport are working.
2021-01-15T12:15:56 < Steffann> I dont know if that is surprising.. i dont know about the russian state.
2021-01-15T12:17:47 < PaulFertser> moscow's a quite crowded city, and it's the most busy transportation hub.
2021-01-15T12:20:07 < Steffann> if you see how it all goes on here... and when you look at London etc. Its not really surprising.
2021-01-15T12:22:11 < Steffann> And in dutchland something like a curfew seems like a huuuuge issue.
2021-01-15T12:26:59 < Steffann> PaulFertser is all fine again?
2021-01-15T12:27:05 < Steffann> and covid proof?
2021-01-15T12:27:56 < PaulFertser> Steffann: I'm supposed to get the second part in two weeks
2021-01-15T12:28:30 < PaulFertser> And unfortunately the 3rd phase of trials wasn't properly completed so it's unclear how efficient it's going to be.
2021-01-15T12:28:33 < jadew> how long after that one will you be immune?
2021-01-15T12:28:37 < Steffann> oh its 2 two injection one
2021-01-15T12:28:50 < Steffann> a two*
2021-01-15T12:28:59 < jadew> PaulFertser, we're the 3rd phase
2021-01-15T12:29:25 < karlp> jpa-: everything gets an assigned number somewhere I guess.
2021-01-15T12:29:28 < jadew> my wife is supposed to get the pfizer one next week
2021-01-15T12:29:29 < karlp> will go pick it up later.
2021-01-15T12:29:53 < karlp> my three parcels from .cz, sent late oct, late nov, and late dec h ave all arrived within a week.
2021-01-15T12:30:55 < jadew> it's because earth is slowing down, so time is contracting
2021-01-15T12:33:37 < PaulFertser> jadew: https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)31866-3/fulltext
2021-01-15T12:40:53 < PaulFertser> So 14 days is not quite enough apparently.
2021-01-15T12:41:56 < PaulFertser> btw, "Thus, the presence of a pre-existing immune response to the components of vaccine vectors rAd26 and rAd5 does not affect the titre of RBD-specific antibodies in the serum of participants."
2021-01-15T12:42:44 < jadew> meaning that even if you are immune to the components of the vaccine, you still develop immunity to covid?
2021-01-15T12:43:34 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Acqrn/Screenshot_2021-01-15_11-43-16.png
2021-01-15T12:43:35 < qyx> such pro
2021-01-15T12:46:07 < jpa-> such colors
2021-01-15T12:47:29 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffann\x
2021-01-15T12:47:35 -!- Steffann\x is now known as Steffannx
2021-01-15T12:47:41 -!- Steffannx is now known as Steffanx
2021-01-15T12:47:42 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-15T12:52:25 < qyx> whats wrong with yellow
2021-01-15T12:52:42 < benishor> such polygons
2021-01-15T12:52:49 < PaulFertser> jadew: yes, I think it means that
2021-01-15T12:52:51 < benishor> what eda is that?
2021-01-15T12:53:07 < karlp> kicad, but qyx never liked the normal colours
2021-01-15T12:53:14 < benishor> I actually like his colors
2021-01-15T12:53:25 < benishor> qyx: can you share the scheme?
2021-01-15T12:53:49 < benishor> I just finished this https://hq.scene.ro/gpsdo-hw.png
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2021-01-15T12:59:52 < qyx> https://gist.github.com/iqyx/af4ff83da2d70786e3e170911169f4ef
2021-01-15T12:59:53 < qyx> benishor: ^
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2021-01-15T13:01:49 < benishor> fanks qyx
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2021-01-15T13:44:55 < jpa-> benishor: are those sma connectors? i think kakimir has found a new friend
2021-01-15T13:47:03 < benishor> jpa-: yeah, smas. what's wrong with them?
2021-01-15T13:49:23 < Steffanx> SMAkimir :)
2021-01-15T13:49:29 < BrainDamage> at the start, he used to use sma for ... everything, power input? sma, switch connector? sma
2021-01-15T13:50:13 < BrainDamage> also, are you building in a clock distributor in your pcb?
2021-01-15T13:50:29 < BrainDamage> wouldn't it make sense to split it to a sep device and make the pcb much smaller?
2021-01-15T13:50:55 < BrainDamage> even just for mechanical stability, and cost
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2021-01-15T13:53:49 < benishor> I just mill that on my cnc and it's a prototype, so ..
2021-01-15T13:53:59 < benishor> qyx: doesn't look bad: http://hq.scene.ro/gpsdo-hw-colors.png
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2021-01-15T13:54:31 < benishor> lol @ sma for power input :)
2021-01-15T13:56:01 < benishor> and yeah, the pcb is for a clock distribution, I want to sync all my equipment. I'm using an uBlox LEA-8M gps to get the main reference and then some vcxo and pll to get 100MHz reference needed for my HP70000 spectrum analyzer
2021-01-15T13:56:23 < benishor> the rest of the equipment takes 10Mhz as reference, as usual
2021-01-15T13:57:44 < benishor> qyx: but eeschema colors, omg
2021-01-15T13:57:51 < benishor> do you use a dark bg with that?
2021-01-15T13:58:35 < qyx> no, I have grey/blueish theme on a white background
2021-01-15T13:58:44 < benishor> I also found this https://github.com/pointhi/kicad-color-schemes
2021-01-15T13:59:02 < qyx> on a gpsdo
2021-01-15T13:59:26 < qyx> *oh
2021-01-15T14:00:10 < qyx> my gnssdo is coming here, it is somewhere in germany now
2021-01-15T14:01:10 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210115130101901.png
2021-01-15T14:02:07 < Steffanx> Je ne parle pas français 
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2021-01-15T14:32:48 < qyx> fuk microchip sec1110
2021-01-15T14:33:21 < qyx> I need to sign some official documents and I am lazy to patch ccid
2021-01-15T14:36:00 < mawk> which ccid
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2021-01-15T14:39:02 < karlp> hrm, dimmer I put in for the ceiling lights is flickering now. hooray
2021-01-15T14:42:04 < zyp> unsuitable dimmer for the type of load?
2021-01-15T14:43:51 < karlp> not according tot the label, but probably some unspecified not entirely compatible bullshit
2021-01-15T14:43:56 < karlp> worked fine for ~2 months maybe.
2021-01-15T14:44:09 < karlp> now iti intermittently flickers, even at 70% or so.
2021-01-15T14:44:18 < mawk> https://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/accessoires-pour-camera-thermique/8110896/
2021-01-15T14:44:20 < mawk> nice idea
2021-01-15T14:44:27 < karlp> possibly having mismatched led bulbs in the fitting doesn't make it happier
2021-01-15T14:44:44 < karlp> english mother fucker, do you speak it?
2021-01-15T14:45:22 < karlp> I mena, rs doesn't even have an option to change language
2021-01-15T14:46:58 < zyp> mawk, not a new one, I have a similar card that I bought like ten years ago
2021-01-15T14:49:23 < mawk> ah yes
2021-01-15T14:49:25 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/Toshiba-Flash-Class-Wireless-Memory/dp/B00DR590OM
2021-01-15T14:49:38 < Steffanx> fuck all those .fr pages. damn it
2021-01-15T14:49:41 < mawk> under this article, amazon says "clients who bought this also bought: Durex Air Ultra Thin Condoms - 10s Durex Air Ultra Thin Condoms - 10s"
2021-01-15T14:50:02 < zyp> the one I got is one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye-Fi
2021-01-15T14:50:03 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210115135000418.png
2021-01-15T14:50:28 < Steffanx> Yeah was about to say Eye-Fi has been around for AGES
2021-01-15T14:52:52 < mawk> http://www.eyefi.com/
2021-01-15T14:52:55 < mawk> your baby is dead Steffanx 
2021-01-15T14:53:09 < Steffanx> yes, since 2016
2021-01-15T14:53:17 < zyp> see, wifi sd cards are so old the tech is already dead
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2021-01-15T14:58:36 < Thorn> what would be a standard file format for saving LA captures? should be understood by multiple softwares so you can save it e.g. in saleae and open in pulseview for analysis
2021-01-15T14:59:10 < zyp> .vcd?
2021-01-15T15:15:47 < qyx> ouch whats happening Steffanx 
2021-01-15T15:17:19 < mawk> see Steffanx even Thorn is using pulseview
2021-01-15T15:18:48 < Thorn> I thought vcd was only for logic simulators for some reason
2021-01-15T15:22:18 < qyx> jadew: do you remember your <200 V incident? when was it?
2021-01-15T15:23:58 < qyx> https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/european-power-grid-disturbance-has-german-energy-industry-worried
2021-01-15T15:24:46 < Steffanx> Yes, so what are you trying to say with that mawk ?
2021-01-15T15:25:01 < Steffanx> logic 2 has a market place for decoders :P
2021-01-15T15:25:23 < Steffanx> they even copied jpa-'s tpiu/etm decoder
2021-01-15T15:25:41 < Steffanx> *itm
2021-01-15T15:25:55 < mawk> etm
2021-01-15T15:27:33 < Steffanx> ok måwk
2021-01-15T15:28:40 < mawk> :(
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2021-01-15T15:35:09 < mawk> §teffånχ
2021-01-15T15:50:44 < englishman> most bulbs in the house are Ikea tradfri now
2021-01-15T15:50:56 < englishman> they go on sale sometimes for the same price as regular bulbs
2021-01-15T15:51:24 < Steffanx> Cool :)
2021-01-15T15:51:41 < englishman> p handy, there's a tradfri motion detector in the garage with a switched outlet, and a bunch of led RGB rope lights attached
2021-01-15T15:51:58 < englishman> disco party every night
2021-01-15T15:52:23 < Steffanx> i think here they also lowered the prices because some other company also started with cheapish bulbs etc.
2021-01-15T15:52:29 < Steffanx> i think it was LIDL.
2021-01-15T15:52:37 < englishman> that's a supermarket right?
2021-01-15T15:53:12 < BrainDamage> yes, but it's not uncommon in EU for supermarkets to put their brands on a series of products
2021-01-15T15:53:18 < Steffanx> supermaktish
2021-01-15T15:53:23 < BrainDamage> and offer those as discount
2021-01-15T15:53:38 < englishman> ah, no electronics in supermarkets here
2021-01-15T15:53:56 < Steffanx> Its more than a supermarket.
2021-01-15T15:54:07 < englishman> more like a Walmart?
2021-01-15T15:54:48 < Steffanx> Not as large probably, but .. i guess its more like it
2021-01-15T15:55:10 < englishman> mini euro Walmart?
2021-01-15T15:55:20 < englishman> you can get a TV and lettuce?
2021-01-15T15:55:39 < englishman> and maybe some hot pants?
2021-01-15T15:55:40 < Steffanx> sometimes they sell TVs yes
2021-01-15T15:55:53 < Steffanx> sometimes they sell hot pants yes
2021-01-15T15:56:07 < englishman> male thong bikinis?
2021-01-15T15:56:23 < englishman> power tools?
2021-01-15T15:56:37 < englishman> cucumbers?
2021-01-15T15:56:45 < Steffanx> male thong bikinis idk.. power tools yes
2021-01-15T15:56:46 < englishman> ball gags?
2021-01-15T15:56:50 < Steffanx> they are into "park side" .
2021-01-15T15:56:57 < englishman> concrete mix?
2021-01-15T15:57:27 < Steffanx> they sell a mixer: https://www.lidl-shop.nl/PARKSIDE-Betonmixer-met-dubbele-roerstaaf-PDRW-1800-A1-1800-W/p100304399
2021-01-15T15:57:50 < mawk> don't buy lidl Steffanx 
2021-01-15T15:57:56 < mawk> we don't want to enrich the german
2021-01-15T15:58:06 < Steffanx> aldi is german as well
2021-01-15T15:58:08 < englishman> interesting béton is the same in French
2021-01-15T15:58:26 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas francais
2021-01-15T15:58:35 < englishman> clairement oui
2021-01-15T16:05:50 < mawk> bien sûr que si tu parles français Steffanx 
2021-01-15T16:06:17 < Steffanx> OMELETTE DU FROMAGE
2021-01-15T16:06:22 < mawk> :(
2021-01-15T16:06:27 < mawk> omelet du fromaj
2021-01-15T16:13:08 < srk> :D
2021-01-15T16:24:54 < Steffanx> Je voudrais un kilo de pommes de terre, mawk  
2021-01-15T16:28:34 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjyichflflettpdn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2021-01-15T16:37:16 < karlp> jpa-: it's so cute!
2021-01-15T16:37:47 < karlp> nice solid thick cable there!
2021-01-15T16:37:59 < jpa-> it tries to look cute and tiny so that it won't look so scary hanging off the BNC jack ;)
2021-01-15T16:38:10 < karlp> looks like I've joined the rannks of people with "special" usb-c cables though, this is usb-2 only cable right? :)
2021-01-15T16:38:40 < karlp> did you build teh sampple text in the bottom into the 3d model?
2021-01-15T16:39:03 < jpa-> yeah, usb-2 only
2021-01-15T16:39:33 < jpa-> the sample text was lasered.. initially i was planning on using laser for some labeling also, but it doesn't really work very well with the nylon so i'll just have to put stickers
2021-01-15T16:40:16 < Steffanx> ohno, karlp is the guinea pig
2021-01-15T16:40:17 < Steffanx> ?
2021-01-15T16:40:58 < karlp> hrm, f401 board camme with a "weact studio" bootloader flashed, unexpected, bnut ok
2021-01-15T16:41:20 < karlp> longang nano came with nothign
2021-01-15T16:41:28 < jpa-> at least with special usb A-C cables it is easy to tell which are 2.0 by looking at the A connector
2021-01-15T16:41:34 < jpa-> not so with C-C
2021-01-15T16:42:05 < karlp> ah, use the boot pins, longan nano now comesx up with a nice chinese serial and all.
2021-01-15T16:42:18 < karlp> yeah, the A- connectir is nice and plain white
2021-01-15T16:42:20 < karlp> no trickery
2021-01-15T16:42:41 < BrainDamage> I have usb-c charge only cables, worse, because not all the data lines are wired depending on the charge protocol fails to negotiate
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2021-01-15T16:43:25 < karlp> ah, f401 has normal rom bootloader too fo course if use boto pins
2021-01-15T16:43:32 < BrainDamage> those promptly ended up in the bin to avoid further headaches
2021-01-15T16:44:01 < Steffanx> Yeah, i get the idea USB-C charge only cables are more common than they were in the pre-USB-C time. Sure they exist but .. 
2021-01-15T16:44:42 < jpa-> micro-b charge only cables are ridicuously common, but usb-c not so much
2021-01-15T16:44:55 < Steffanx> not for me that, i never had them jpa-  :P
2021-01-15T16:44:56 < karlp> now then, female A or micro B for the DUT, C for the sample, and mini-b for the scope ;)
2021-01-15T16:45:16 < jpa-> i guess when you need to put all kinds of wires for CC pins it is not that much of a trouble to put some for D+/D- also
2021-01-15T16:45:33 < BrainDamage> if you want to go really wild, use a mini-b connector
2021-01-15T16:45:40 < Steffanx> takes twice as much time? 
2021-01-15T16:46:16 < karlp> led on the side is better than I thought, I saw it at first and was like, "what's that for"
2021-01-15T16:46:28 < BrainDamage> sorry, mini-a
2021-01-15T16:46:29 < karlp> kinda reckon on the top might be nicer, but then it's reverse mount shit
2021-01-15T16:47:14 < jpa-> karlp: yeah, i first thought top but then the top became bottom (at least with most scopes), and now i've settled to put a lightpipe to bring it near the input connector
2021-01-15T16:47:42 < karlp> well, there's no real top/bottom, it's just that I've got it "up" with the label up.
2021-01-15T16:49:10 < jpa-> apparently the small screws look like cute tiny feet and that's why the label would go on the opposite side in next revision ;)   (it seems my QA department is obsessing on weird parts of the design..)
2021-01-15T16:50:48 < jpa-> but i guess on the front (next to input connector) will be most visible when in actual use, to catch the occassional "why doesn't this work... oh the USB plug wasn't fully in place"
2021-01-15T16:52:32 < karlp> where's the datasheet again?
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2021-01-15T16:53:17 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/DEISO-LF.pdf
2021-01-15T16:53:25 < karlp> front by the input bnc would probably be safest for "unmissable" yeah
2021-01-15T16:53:50 < jpa-> haven't updated yet, i managed to squeeze in CAT II 600V creepage for rev 2
2021-01-15T16:54:17 < jpa-> should be nice enough in case someone wants to measure e.g. SMPS primary side capacitors or something
2021-01-15T16:55:22 < mawk> good Steffanx you put the S in the right place
2021-01-15T16:55:39 < mawk> can I use logic2 by proxy? connect to a remote probe that's connected to a rpi
2021-01-15T16:55:46 < mawk> I think the rpi will have a freeer usb bus
2021-01-15T16:55:51 < mawk> and let me use max speed
2021-01-15T16:56:05 < mawk> and not this shitty 2Msps on this laptop
2021-01-15T16:56:07 < Steffanx> which S mawk ?
2021-01-15T16:56:10 < mawk> je voudrais
2021-01-15T16:56:19 < Steffanx> where else to place it?
2021-01-15T16:56:41 < mawk> you can also not put a S at all
2021-01-15T16:56:45 < mawk> "je voudrai", it's the future tense
2021-01-15T16:56:50 < mawk> "je voudrais" is the conditional tense
2021-01-15T16:58:29 < karlp> mawk: there' s usbip, it might work
2021-01-15T16:59:34 < mawk> I can try that
2021-01-15T16:59:43 < jpa-> mawk: if you are using a ebay special cheap probe, replace the cable that came with it for a better one
2021-01-15T17:00:34 < jpa-> a lot of people have had the trouble that the cables that come with the saleae clones are cheap crap, cause occassional packet error, which causes host to wait 1 ms, which is long enough to overrun tiny FX2 buffers
2021-01-15T17:00:54 < karlp> hrm, I thought I had something wrong, light was on, but nothing working
2021-01-15T17:00:59 < karlp> unplugged, replugged, works now...
2021-01-15T17:01:19 < BrainDamage> i use usbip on a crappy board for isolation
2021-01-15T17:01:36 < BrainDamage> this way worst case I burn that instead of my laptop's usb port
2021-01-15T17:02:17 < jpa-> karlp: you may be hit by my high build quality.. i've noticed some occassional contact problems myself also; there is spring contacts inside and that revision has too small pads for them
2021-01-15T17:03:31 < karlp> ok, works fine on dc....
2021-01-15T17:03:38 < karlp> let's try... the wild world of 50hz
2021-01-15T17:04:02 < karlp> I'm at home, I don't have much in the way of cool functions
2021-01-15T17:04:32 < karlp> now, just because the _scope_ is isolated, doesn't mean _I_ am...
2021-01-15T17:04:37  * karlp tries to remember to be careful
2021-01-15T17:05:05  * jpa- makes a note to send karlp a rubber suit next
2021-01-15T17:08:07 < BrainDamage> probe the input of a pc's psu, and then the output ac coupled
2021-01-15T17:14:08 < mawk> it's a real saleae probe jpa- 
2021-01-15T17:14:17 < mawk> not original cable though
2021-01-15T17:14:31 < mawk> I'll change the cable thanks
2021-01-15T17:14:35 < karlp> well fucking just electrocuted myself nice.
2021-01-15T17:14:44 < mawk> you're in heaven now karlp 
2021-01-15T17:14:53 < mawk> heaven consists of talking with me for the rest of eternity
2021-01-15T17:14:59 < karlp> turned off the mains, wen tto hold the scope and unplug to switch tot the non-isloated, and zapped myself on the mmetal case of the scope
2021-01-15T17:15:04 < mawk> you're allowed to listen to my selection of techno music
2021-01-15T17:15:18 < karlp> oh, fuck
2021-01-15T17:15:21 < karlp> fuckiyt fuck
2021-01-15T17:15:33 < qyx> wasn't careful enough?
2021-01-15T17:15:38  * jpa- thinks he made the right choice for a beta tester
2021-01-15T17:15:44 < mawk> lol
2021-01-15T17:15:52 < mawk> what were you zapped with if mains was off?
2021-01-15T17:16:03 < karlp> I guess this fucking little switch is only switching one of the wires,
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2021-01-15T17:16:10 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep4NoMjXIAQtG8Z?format=jpg&name=small
2021-01-15T17:16:15 < mawk> ah
2021-01-15T17:16:17 < mawk> unipolar switch
2021-01-15T17:16:21 < mawk> these should be forbidden
2021-01-15T17:16:24 < karlp> so I still had one side connected to the scope ground, and then touched the other side of the isolator
2021-01-15T17:16:30 < karlp> serves me fucking right
2021-01-15T17:16:34 < BrainDamage> the caps on the smps can also hold a nice charge
2021-01-15T17:16:45 < mawk> it's a fake Laurenceb right?
2021-01-15T17:16:51 < Laurenceb> i dunno lol
2021-01-15T17:16:55 < Laurenceb> made me kek anyway
2021-01-15T17:16:57 < karlp> BrainDamage: this is literally just a lamp wire to bare plugs at the moment,
2021-01-15T17:17:31 < BrainDamage> but is the plug still in?
2021-01-15T17:17:45 < karlp> I guess I lifted the metal case of teh scope to whatever the "blue wire" was inside the cable, and depending on which way round that's plugged in, it was potentially live, not neutral
2021-01-15T17:17:53 < karlp> yeah, was ttoo lazy to unplug it.
2021-01-15T17:17:54 < karlp> won't do that again
2021-01-15T17:18:04 < karlp> cunt of a thing
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2021-01-15T17:19:40 < qyx> I remember very very precisely not to touch caps on disconnected SMPSs too
2021-01-15T17:20:29 < karlp> right, so "brown" and "blue" are currently both ~130V awa y from teh case of the scope
2021-01-15T17:20:31 < karlp> helpful
2021-01-15T17:20:42 < qyx> or "hey, this neutral wire comes from the outlet in the kitchen, so no voltage here!"
2021-01-15T17:20:45 < mawk> what happens when you touch an AC cap qyx ? nothing right?
2021-01-15T17:20:49 < mawk> it doesn't really hold charge
2021-01-15T17:20:52 < qyx> the fucking LED lamp was in the outlet
2021-01-15T17:21:01 < mawk> like on a AC motor
2021-01-15T17:21:24 < karlp> and yeah, switched off the inline switch, "blue" is still 130V away from the case of the sco
2021-01-15T17:21:26 < karlp> pe
2021-01-15T17:21:35 < mawk> cut off that switch and throw it away
2021-01-15T17:21:40 < mawk> and put a bipolar switch
2021-01-15T17:21:57 < mawk> wait why 130V away, aren't you in europe
2021-01-15T17:23:28 < jpa-> 130V sounds a lot like SMPS leakage current
2021-01-15T17:29:37 < karlp> only person who said smps was braindamage
2021-01-15T17:29:40 < karlp> this is just raw mains
2021-01-15T17:29:42 < karlp> anyway...
2021-01-15T17:29:45 < karlp> espire reading 130v,
2021-01-15T17:29:53 < karlp> I wasn't seeing any ac wave on the isolated probe
2021-01-15T17:30:00 < karlp> and despire reading 130v 
2021-01-15T17:30:03 < karlp> what did I do?
2021-01-15T17:30:15 < karlp> connected it straight to the fucking scope
2021-01-15T17:30:25 < karlp> tripped the mains, 
2021-01-15T17:30:43 < karlp> and..... by all appearances, I have blown eithe rthe usb on the mobo, or the keyboard.
2021-01-15T17:30:57 < karlp> this is why i should have beenusing the isolator!
2021-01-15T17:31:05 < karlp> (except I wasn't seeing anything :(
2021-01-15T17:31:23 < karlp> scope was connected to a hub connected to the keyboard.
2021-01-15T17:31:26 < karlp> fucking joy
2021-01-15T17:31:32 < karlp> fool
2021-01-15T17:31:48 < karlp> anywya, I have an appointment. will try and sort this out later :|
2021-01-15T17:31:55 < karlp> see if any other ports work
2021-01-15T17:32:15 < karlp> usb hub and things in the hub are all lit up still, but they keyboard is non-functional
2021-01-15T17:32:39 < jpa-> sorry for blowing up your computer :|
2021-01-15T17:32:46 < karlp> not your fault in the least
2021-01-15T17:32:51 < jpa-> ;)
2021-01-15T17:33:13 < qyx> is it jpa's isolator?
2021-01-15T17:33:18 < karlp> i don't why I wasn't seeing anything though, dc worked fine,
2021-01-15T17:33:27 < karlp> should have seen ac mains just fine on your isolator
2021-01-15T17:33:37 < karlp> jpa's isolator was not connected at this point
2021-01-15T17:34:03 < karlp> I was (stupiddddddly) connectting it to the other (non-jpa-protected) channel to make sure I had things I expected
2021-01-15T17:34:18 < jpa-> karlp: hmm... if you were using 10x probe, the input voltage range is +-200V typical
2021-01-15T17:34:23 < jpa-> above that it clips to zero
2021-01-15T17:34:32 < karlp> probe was 1x, scope set to 10x
2021-01-15T17:34:54 < jpa-> ok, so exceeding absolute max ratings by 5x? :)
2021-01-15T17:35:03 < karlp> oh...
2021-01-15T17:35:15 < karlp> and it clips to zero, not max?
2021-01-15T17:35:19 < karlp> that... would explain things...
2021-01-15T17:35:22 < jpa-> unfortunately yes
2021-01-15T17:35:27 < karlp> so, probe to 10x, scope to 100x?
2021-01-15T17:35:31 < jpa-> the SI8920 isolator chip is annoying like that
2021-01-15T17:35:43 < karlp> not sure I have that option in the scope, but can try....
2021-01-15T17:36:00 < jpa-> even with probe to 10x, it'll be annoyingly out of the range
2021-01-15T17:36:03 < karlp> if I get my computer up again without a shop trip...
2021-01-15T17:36:13 < karlp> hrm..
2021-01-15T17:36:26 < karlp> I'd kinda suggest that if you can't measure mains with an isolated probe, the isolation is for... what?
2021-01-15T17:36:37 < jpa-> i guess this is a case i haven't designed for indeed
2021-01-15T17:36:58 < karlp> I mean, i can measure the hot-gound to hot-3v3 stuff I guess.
2021-01-15T17:37:02 < karlp> that's all useful.
2021-01-15T17:37:18 < karlp> they just don't have the convenient probe points on this board I have available here at home
2021-01-15T17:37:23 < karlp> anyway, gotta go.
2021-01-15T17:37:24 < jpa-> yeah, that's more what i was thinking about - not that there is anything stopping you from measuring with a 100x probe, but those aren't very common
2021-01-15T17:37:37 < jpa-> yeah, talk to you later :)
2021-01-15T17:40:39 < mawk> rutrut has quit Steffanx 
2021-01-15T17:40:48 < mawk> they would've never quit for something so small in FR
2021-01-15T17:40:54 < Steffanx> small.
2021-01-15T17:40:57 < mawk> and quitting amidst a pandemic that's stupid
2021-01-15T17:41:01 < mawk> yes
2021-01-15T17:41:08 < Steffanx> small.
2021-01-15T17:41:16 < mawk> shaking down welfare recipients is a sport in france
2021-01-15T17:41:19 < mawk> and not just them
2021-01-15T17:41:23 < mawk> it's a very small thing
2021-01-15T17:41:25 < Steffanx> Nothing really change anyway
2021-01-15T17:41:33 < Steffanx> + elections are in a few months
2021-01-15T17:42:04 < Steffanx> but we are not fucking france, stop comparing us to french. COME OOONNN.
2021-01-15T17:42:10 < mawk>  france is the gold standard
2021-01-15T17:42:14 < mawk> that's why
2021-01-15T17:42:16 < mawk> also, how do I vote?
2021-01-15T17:42:23 < mawk> city of delft knows I'm dutch, I have a paper
2021-01-15T17:42:29 < mawk> but do I need a special election card?
2021-01-15T17:42:41 < Steffanx> You'll receive it automagically.
2021-01-15T17:42:43 < Steffanx> i think
2021-01-15T17:42:45 < Steffanx> i do
2021-01-15T17:43:07 < mawk> hmm
2021-01-15T17:43:09 < mawk> I hope
2021-01-15T17:43:24 < Steffanx> And then you go to the voting booth and make the right circle red.
2021-01-15T17:43:31 < Steffanx> with a pencil
2021-01-15T17:44:10 < jadew> qyx, a couple of days ago
2021-01-15T17:44:26 < mawk> why red with a pencil Steffanx 
2021-01-15T17:44:28 < mawk> you liar
2021-01-15T17:44:35 < mawk> saleaeae works over usbip, let's check the maximum rate
2021-01-15T17:44:58 < PaulFertser> Did you try with pulseview already? Was it better or worse rate-wise?
2021-01-15T17:45:08 < jadew> https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1610719083536.webm
2021-01-15T17:45:21 < mawk> 12Msps is fine, much better than 2
2021-01-15T17:45:33 < mawk> ah I forgot to try PaulFertser 
2021-01-15T17:45:39 < mawk> I'll try that
2021-01-15T17:46:46 < mawk> jadew: <Laurenceb> what are you doing on /pol/ come on my http://boards.qanon.com/qpatriotresearch/ board
2021-01-15T17:47:37 < jadew> it was posted somewhere else
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2021-01-15T17:52:26 < Laurenceb> god wtf
2021-01-15T17:53:26 < Laurenceb> wont load
2021-01-15T18:03:51 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-15T18:18:53 < mawk> I made it up Laurenceb 
2021-01-15T18:22:21 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0b102@2.177.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
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2021-01-15T18:55:58 < Steffanx> Lol mawk
2021-01-15T18:56:06 < Steffanx> Trolling lb
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2021-01-15T19:33:34 < englishman> https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=41283
2021-01-15T19:33:36 < englishman> neato
2021-01-15T19:38:47 < mawk> buy one for me
2021-01-15T19:40:37 < englishman> buy your own shit
2021-01-15T19:41:47 < mawk> I'm poor
2021-01-15T19:41:52 < Thorn> peak ardweeno https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHOiwcvmucg
2021-01-15T19:42:06 < englishman> you're an employed electrical engineer in a 1st world country
2021-01-15T19:44:57 < englishman> nice thonr
2021-01-15T20:10:05 < mawk> Finally, the micro-SD card slot has changed to push-push type (spring eject) from push-pull one.
2021-01-15T20:10:07 < mawk> why?
2021-01-15T20:24:43 < mawk> https://santé.fr/
2021-01-15T20:24:50 < mawk> they opened a website to sign up for vaccination
2021-01-15T20:25:01 < mawk> how do you do in NL Steffanx ? how's the vaccination campaign going?
2021-01-15T20:25:03 < qyx> with a é?
2021-01-15T20:25:17 < mawk> yes
2021-01-15T20:25:23 < mawk> you didn't know international domain names?
2021-01-15T20:25:46 < mawk> russia even have a tld like this, .pΦ or something
2021-01-15T20:25:53 < qyx> I did but nobody uses them
2021-01-15T20:25:56 < mawk> that means russian federation
2021-01-15T20:26:11 < PaulFertser> .рф
2021-01-15T20:26:18 < mawk> yeah I wrote it in greek PaulFertser 
2021-01-15T20:26:24 < mawk> I don't have a russian keyboard
2021-01-15T20:26:34 < Steffanx> what campaign mawk 
2021-01-15T20:26:36 < mawk> maybe I will need one, when I marry my ukrainian mistress
2021-01-15T20:26:37 < PaulFertser> mawk: russian alphabet took inspiration from greek, yes
2021-01-15T20:26:44 < mawk> vaccination Steffanx 
2021-01-15T20:26:46 < Thorn> ок мавк
2021-01-15T20:26:48 < Steffanx> its not even close to our turn yet
2021-01-15T20:27:53 < mawk> þ: mayk ?
2021-01-15T20:32:38 < Thorn> depends on how you pronounce it correctly
2021-01-15T20:36:34 < srk> lol, french guy doing english commentary on CS:GO match https://www.twitch.tv/vortexentmt
2021-01-15T20:36:38 < srk> mad
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2021-01-15T20:47:25 < jpa-> karlp: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/clamping.png
2021-01-15T20:48:56 < qyx> jpa putting gerbers in git?
2021-01-15T20:49:46 < jpa-> qyx: where then?
2021-01-15T20:50:17 < benishor> as opposed to always generating them he means
2021-01-15T20:50:24 < benishor> jpa-: what's that project?
2021-01-15T20:50:32 < benishor> care to share url?
2021-01-15T20:50:49 < jpa-> karlp: i remember reading this and thinking "well what possible hazard could occur, it's not like anyone will be checking for live voltage with a scope"  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/hazard.png  
2021-01-15T20:51:06 < qyx> jpa-: hm, idk, I generate them once a release is prepared and then commit the resulting zip, so basically I am doing the same
2021-01-15T20:51:29 < jpa-> benishor: repo is not public yet, but this: http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/DEISO-LF.pdf
2021-01-15T20:52:10 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, i commit both the zip and the files.. not sure if there is much point, but kind-of lets one diff the gerbers if there are only tiny adjustments to some layers
2021-01-15T20:52:19 < zyp> 15:38:10 < karlp> looks like I've joined the rannks of people with "special" usb-c cables though, this is usb-2 only cable right? :)
2021-01-15T20:52:31 < zyp> usb-2 only cables are one of the two standard kind of cables
2021-01-15T20:53:08 < zyp> most of my C-C cables are usb-2 only, they are fine since a lot of usb-c use is usb-2 only
2021-01-15T20:53:14 < jpa-> oh, standard allows that? nice
2021-01-15T20:53:21 < jpa-> i thought they would always require all the bazillion wires
2021-01-15T20:53:48 < zyp> 15:41:28 < jpa-> at least with special usb A-C cables it is easy to tell which are 2.0 by looking at the A connector
2021-01-15T20:53:51 < zyp> 15:41:34 < jpa-> not so with C-C
2021-01-15T20:54:15 < zyp> if you can't tell the difference between a cable having one differential pair inside and a cable having five differential pairs inside, just from thickness, then idk :)
2021-01-15T20:54:43 < zyp> the difference between my cables are pretty obvious to me at least
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2021-01-15T20:55:58 < zyp> standard defines two kinds with regards to number of conductors; either full or usb-2 only
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2021-01-15T20:56:07 < zyp> the latter only got gnd, vbus, cc and dm/dp
2021-01-15T20:56:30 < benishor> noice
2021-01-15T20:56:42 < jpa-> my USB3 gopro cable is 4.18mm, the 1528-4472-ND that's USB2 is is 4.51mm
2021-01-15T20:56:59 < jpa-> but admittedly the gopro cable is not C-C, it is USB3 A-C
2021-01-15T20:57:01 < benishor> jpa-: why does the pdf look so professional? is that a commercial product? your own company?
2021-01-15T20:57:22 < jpa-> benishor: well i'm going to try to sell it, yeah
2021-01-15T20:57:27 < benishor> it looks like somebody knows to use latex as well
2021-01-15T20:57:37 < zyp> jpa-, A-C-cables only have two extra differential pairs, and no CC
2021-01-15T20:57:51 < benishor> cool, it looks nice
2021-01-15T20:57:53 < zyp> C-C cables have four extra differential pairs plus SBU1/SBU2
2021-01-15T20:58:14 < jpa-> yeah, looks like i don't have any C-C cables
2021-01-15T20:58:41 < jpa-> benishor: :)
2021-01-15T20:59:31 < benishor> jpa-: just curious, what market are you planning to hit?
2021-01-15T20:59:49 < zyp> people with spare keyboards
2021-01-15T20:59:52 < jpa-> :D
2021-01-15T21:00:38 < jpa-> benishor: dunno.. scope users? :)
2021-01-15T21:01:09 < benishor> jpa-: sure, but I was wondering what selling channel are you going to use
2021-01-15T21:01:11 < jpa-> i'm not experienced in marketing stuff or anything like that, so i'm just trying to come up with somewhat useful ideas and then try to find someone to buy them
2021-01-15T21:01:33 < benishor> there is for instance tindie
2021-01-15T21:01:34 < jpa-> benishor: i'll start with tindie, but probably i'll try to get it on the lists of some distributors also
2021-01-15T21:02:01 < benishor> well then, good luck! who's building the enclosure?
2021-01-15T21:02:52 < jpa-> it's a single 3d printed piece of plastic, 3dstep gave the lowest price (6 EUR) for small batches
2021-01-15T21:06:15 < benishor> good luck then! let us know how it goes
2021-01-15T21:07:58 < jpa-> certainly, current toll is 1 keyboard
2021-01-15T21:08:10 < jpa-> i'll set up a graph if it continues to rise
2021-01-15T21:08:23 < qyx> ok fanning out a bga needs a bit of concept
2021-01-15T21:08:26 < qyx> and thinking
2021-01-15T21:08:48 < zyp> and layers :)
2021-01-15T21:09:35 < jpa-> fanning out bga always feels silly.. what's the point of such a tiny chip when you need a lot of area to get the wires out of it
2021-01-15T21:14:34 < fenugrec> and thermal management doesn't get easier as packages get smaller...
2021-01-15T21:14:37 < zyp> jpa-, bullshit
2021-01-15T21:15:16 < fenugrec> "check out this 2x2 DFN, can dissipate 300mW if you give it 25x25mm of 2oz Cu"
2021-01-15T21:17:05 < zyp> jpa-, IME it feels a lot more silly to fan out a huge qfp :)
2021-01-15T21:18:20 < zyp> qfp100 is reasonable enough, but qfp144 and up starts being unreasonably huge
2021-01-15T21:18:20 < Thorn> huge qfp in 4 layers vs. bga384 in the same 4 layers. take your pick
2021-01-15T21:19:43 < Thorn> if you can afford 10 layers then no problem at all
2021-01-15T21:20:08 < zyp> it also depends how much you need to reorganize the signals to get them where you need them to go
2021-01-15T21:20:47 < Thorn> LTDC RGB interface on mp1: half of the signals on top, another half on the bottom lol
2021-01-15T21:21:08 < zyp> qfp got more room for cross routing shit underneath
2021-01-15T21:21:30 < Thorn> you can remap them so that only a few left on the top side but then many other peripherals become unavailable
2021-01-15T21:23:58 < bitmask> why did I just spend $500 on a vacuum chamber when my mold came out great without it :P
2021-01-15T21:24:17 < jpa-> zyp: true enough, there is a lot of unused space under such big chips
2021-01-15T21:24:34 < zyp> here's a qfp144 I routed once: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Jvtp0.png
2021-01-15T21:24:56 < qyx> let's guess
2021-01-15T21:24:59 < jpa-> bitmask: my vacuum chamber is an old cooking pot :)
2021-01-15T21:25:05 < qyx> imx288 or what was it?
2021-01-15T21:25:20 < qyx> 223 maybe
2021-01-15T21:25:23 < zyp> qyx, this? stm2
2021-01-15T21:25:25 < zyp> stm32
2021-01-15T21:25:25 < bitmask> well most of it was the pump, also I didnt feel like wasting time so I just ordered the chamber itself as a unit
2021-01-15T21:25:38 < qyx> oh
2021-01-15T21:25:44 < zyp> don't remember exactly which, I didn't do schematics, just layout
2021-01-15T21:26:17 < bitmask> jpa- how do you control the vacuum level if your pump is overpowered, do you just leave the valve a tiny bit open?
2021-01-15T21:26:57 < bitmask> or is that not controllable enough?
2021-01-15T21:27:56 < zyp> overpowered how? what happens if you let it just keep sucking?
2021-01-15T21:29:06 < bitmask> didnt get it yet but thought you wanted a precise vacuum to control how fast it degasses? or do you just let it rip 
2021-01-15T21:29:41 < bitmask> thought it might cause the 'foam' to go out of control and risk getting sucked back up
2021-01-15T21:29:46 < jpa-> bitmask: i have a bypass valve, yeah
2021-01-15T21:30:16 < bitmask> so you leave that a tiny bit open or do you open and close it throughout
2021-01-15T21:30:25 < zyp> sounds like you should get a VFD and run a PID with a pressure sensor :p
2021-01-15T21:30:30 < jpa-> and yeah, you usually want a way to control the vacuum level so that any foam does not come over the edges of the mold
2021-01-15T21:30:32 < bitmask> zyp haha yea right
2021-01-15T21:31:12 < jpa-> piston-based vacuum pumps don't like starting and stopping, so bypass valve is easier :)
2021-01-15T21:31:22 < jpa-> mine is just an old fridge compressor
2021-01-15T21:31:26 < bitmask> it has a bypass valve, its not piston anyway
2021-01-15T21:31:49 < bitmask> its a rotary vane
2021-01-15T21:32:10 < jpa-> does it work also as a compressor, or vacuum only?
2021-01-15T21:32:34 < bitmask> vacuum only i think
2021-01-15T21:32:56 < bitmask> i recently bought an airbrush compressor though
2021-01-15T21:33:41 < bitmask> i believe the air gets sucked out a hole in the handle, might be able to do something with that but i dont think theres actually a connector on it
2021-01-15T21:35:21 < bitmask> https://www.robinair.com/products/6-cfm-vacuum-pump
2021-01-15T21:35:53 < jpa-> exposes you to LEAD, and LEAD
2021-01-15T21:36:00 < bitmask> ?
2021-01-15T21:36:12 < bitmask> oh ahha
2021-01-15T21:48:10 < bitmask> casting 3d prints is great because you can calculate the volume of resin needed
2021-01-15T21:50:44 < zyp> working out a way to abstract interrupt handling across architectures now
2021-01-15T21:55:10 < zyp> I figure on cortex-m I'll do as always and keep the vector table in flash with weak symbols that are overridden to register handlers
2021-01-15T21:55:57 < zyp> and then on risc-v I guess I'll create a similar table and have an interrupt handler trampoline calling into it
2021-01-15T21:57:27 < zyp> that should keep most stuff on the user facing side equivalent
2021-01-15T22:04:27 < mouseghost> hm, so i suppose just trying to push ada onto stm32 is harder than just well, i dont know, getting registers from svd and compiling it .w.?
2021-01-15T22:05:25 < srk> https://github.com/AdaCore/svd2ada/
2021-01-15T22:06:25 < mouseghost> srk, yeah thats exactly what ive done
2021-01-15T22:07:22 < mouseghost> tho im still confused a bit with them magic black small rectangular centipedes: do i need that LD or not, do i need to incorporate the startup_*.S files somehow etc...
2021-01-15T22:08:36 < srk> not sure. specing might know
2021-01-15T22:12:58 < mouseghost> hmm linker script seems to be pretty 'global' ;d
2021-01-15T22:20:36 < mouseghost> wtf its 9pm already ;w;
2021-01-15T22:21:18 < englishman> usb-c 3.0 cables require e-marking too so are quite a bit more expensive
2021-01-15T22:21:26 < englishman> and less flexy
2021-01-15T22:22:19 < zyp> meh :)
2021-01-15T22:27:12 < Steffanx> Im glad usb-c is not confusing at all. Especially for non-technical people.
2021-01-15T22:27:49 < englishman> cant wait for usb-d
2021-01-15T22:27:53 < englishman> they will standardize everything
2021-01-15T22:28:00 < englishman> by making 400 new standards
2021-01-15T22:28:08 < zyp> pff, usb-c is great
2021-01-15T22:28:32 < englishman> idk the usb-c on my not very old samdong is already wearing out
2021-01-15T22:28:53 < Steffanx> its fucking awful for people that have no clue. USB2.0 / USB3.0 same connector.. yeah great
2021-01-15T22:28:58 < zyp> replace the cable, it's designed to wear out the plug before the socket
2021-01-15T22:29:03 < englishman> this expensive wurth usb-c receptacle on this one pcb has a very unsatisfying click
2021-01-15T22:29:08 < englishman> i have used many cables
2021-01-15T22:29:27 < zyp> Steffanx, I don't see how that's different from before :)
2021-01-15T22:29:28 < Steffanx> my father doesnt even know the difference between micro-usb and usb-c. He sees the difference, but ask him what he has and he doenst know
2021-01-15T22:30:10 < Steffanx> on the device side the there is quite a difference between usb3.0 and 2.0... before USB-C.
2021-01-15T22:30:16 < zyp> Steffanx, nobody stops anybody from using a usb2 a-b or a-microb cable with usb3 equipment
2021-01-15T22:31:31 < Steffanx> except for things that already have a usb-c connector
2021-01-15T22:32:39 < zyp> you've always been able to use usb2 cables on usb3 equipment, regardless of plug type
2021-01-15T22:32:58 < Steffanx> and then you get a semi-random cable that turns out to not be usb3.0. 
2021-01-15T22:33:02 < englishman> oh nvm i just checked it under the microscope and it was full of pocket crud
2021-01-15T22:33:04 < englishman> all clean now
2021-01-15T22:33:08 < englishman> usb-c is rather deep tho
2021-01-15T22:33:25 < zyp> Steffanx, you could do that before too
2021-01-15T22:33:26 < englishman> i guess that's the only issue
2021-01-15T22:33:48 < Steffanx> could do vs happend very often..
2021-01-15T22:34:07 < Steffanx> and there is still a visible difference between the connectors.. and not just cable thickness
2021-01-15T22:34:30 < zyp> my usb3 c-c cables also have visible differences on the connectors
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2021-01-15T22:35:44 < Steffanx> Whatever.. you clearly mainly look at with your your technical eyes/mind.
2021-01-15T22:36:01 < Steffanx> at it*\
2021-01-15T22:36:02 < zyp> no, I look at the fucking consumer oriented labelling: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bwKN5.jpg
2021-01-15T22:36:42 < Steffanx> my "cheap" whatever green cables have no such logo what so ever.
2021-01-15T22:36:58 < qyx> whats that
2021-01-15T22:37:04 < qyx> isn't it a battery logo?
2021-01-15T22:37:17 < zyp> yeah, I think that means it's PD rated :)
2021-01-15T22:37:38 < zyp> i.e. SS and PD capable
2021-01-15T22:37:52 < effractur> yes
2021-01-15T22:37:56 < effractur> tat battery is PD
2021-01-15T22:38:11 < Steffanx> *ugreen
2021-01-15T22:38:12 < zyp> there's also a 10 in the corner that doesn't show up very well, indicating it's also rated for Gen2
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2021-01-15T22:45:12 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-15T22:45:57 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xthCz/Screenshot_2021-01-15_21-45-37.png
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2021-01-15T22:45:59 < zyp> for irq/exception definitions, which makes more sense? «num: name» or «name: num»?
2021-01-15T22:46:07 < qyx> the worst thing on that bga is that bunch of caps
2021-01-15T22:46:25 < karlp> so... current tally of dead shit: scope, keyboard, and a hub that was on a different port on the mobo.  hub that was between the keyboard and the scope is perfectly fine.  
2021-01-15T22:46:45 < Steffanx> but in the end the main problem is labeling.. if they can get that right most (probably all) of my complaints are solved. 
2021-01-15T22:46:48 < karlp> and I don't hvae a spare keyboard these days after moving and tossing shit 
2021-01-15T22:47:05 < zyp> karlp, how did you hook it up to short it out?
2021-01-15T22:47:06 < karlp> jpa-: "hazardous marking" yes :) but still completely 100% my fault.
2021-01-15T22:47:33 < karlp> I absurdly connected ground clip to a mains wire.
2021-01-15T22:47:58 < zyp> I've done that before
2021-01-15T22:48:09 < englishman> uh shouldn't every c-c cable be PD capable just not >60W capable
2021-01-15T22:48:20 < zyp> I hooked the ground clip to a heatsink I assumed were grounded; it were live :)
2021-01-15T22:48:25 < zyp> englishman, yes
2021-01-15T22:48:32 < qyx> karlp: the moment when you connect ground clip to a DClink ground?
2021-01-15T22:48:47 < zyp> englishman, idk if it means 100W or what
2021-01-15T22:48:52 < Steffanx> Assuming they are certified englishman  ;)
2021-01-15T22:49:11 < karlp> yeah, instantthe ground clip touched the mains wire
2021-01-15T22:49:47 < karlp> after having just measured 130V arcoss that.
2021-01-15T22:49:48 < Steffanx> but who buys certified usb cables?
2021-01-15T22:49:54 < karlp> head-> bullet dumb
2021-01-15T22:50:10 < zyp> in my case I didn't even realize at first what happened, it didn't spark and the scope/DUT were on its own circuit so nothing else lost power
2021-01-15T22:50:21 < karlp> _hopefully_ the mobo is ok.
2021-01-15T22:50:49 < karlp> the secondhub on a different port being dead does not make me feel encouraged about that
2021-01-15T22:51:06 < karlp> surprised that the intermediate hub between the scope and the keyboard is perfetly fine though
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2021-01-15T22:53:07 < karlp> guess i'm going to be openening some things up :)
2021-01-15T22:58:54 < mawk> having heatsinks live, why do people do this
2021-01-15T23:01:25 < zyp> becase then you don't need insulation between the transistor and the heatsink
2021-01-15T23:01:37 < mouseghost> hm for some reason my binary file gets big...
2021-01-15T23:02:53 < mouseghost> why is it 400MB ;-;
2021-01-15T23:02:57 < karlp> mawk: also, they're very much allowed to be internal
2021-01-15T23:03:03 < karlp> mouseghost: are you fucking with ada?
2021-01-15T23:03:09 < karlp> why areyou even making bin files?
2021-01-15T23:03:10 < mouseghost> karlp, yeah, why
2021-01-15T23:03:16 < mouseghost> to flash it :C
2021-01-15T23:03:20 < karlp> bzzzzt
2021-01-15T23:03:23 < karlp> incorrect 
2021-01-15T23:03:24 < mouseghost> huh
2021-01-15T23:03:37 < mawk> zyp: then why do chip manufacturers connect transistor casing to live?
2021-01-15T23:03:46 < mouseghost> karlp, im all ears....
2021-01-15T23:04:06 < karlp> whatever you did to get a bin has probably grabbed the wrong sections and you're sucking ram and flash into the bin with zeros lal the way between or something stupid
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2021-01-15T23:04:18 < karlp> any decent tooling can use .elf files directly for flashing 
2021-01-15T23:04:27 < karlp> as long as you rlinker scripts are doing the right thing.
2021-01-15T23:04:38 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-15T23:05:13 < karlp> if they're wrong, the .elf will be worng too, and you can -sometimes- pretned it's still working by pulling the right bits out flashing them to the right places
2021-01-15T23:05:54 < mawk> .hex files are pretty popular as well
2021-01-15T23:06:24 < karlp> just a bin with some embedded address info
2021-01-15T23:06:34 < karlp> you still shouldn't need to extract it with any sane tooling
2021-01-15T23:06:39 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-15T23:06:45 < karlp> not for dev anyway
2021-01-15T23:07:01 < karlp> storing bins for custom bootloader and deploying pieces of apps, sure,
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2021-01-15T23:08:32 < mouseghost> hmmm
2021-01-15T23:08:46 < jpa-> karlp: the irony of the isolator enticing you to do exactly what it was designed to avoid is.. too much to be even funny
2021-01-15T23:09:31 < mouseghost> i mean, sure, but im still just trying to make it _run_ uhh
2021-01-15T23:09:34 < zyp> mawk, for heat dissipation, substrate is usually mounted on the metal tab that mounts to the heatsink
2021-01-15T23:09:45 < mouseghost> got it flashed with ihex for some reason
2021-01-15T23:09:56 < mouseghost> but i guess thats just gnyu tooling..
2021-01-15T23:10:10 < qyx> what do you use for flashing?
2021-01-15T23:11:01 < mouseghost> st-flash for the time being
2021-01-15T23:11:13 < jpa-> karlp: but yeah, i'm not sure what i was thinking, of course people are gonna measure mains with this and it shoyld have range for it and clip to extremes
2021-01-15T23:12:50 < mouseghost> but clearly something is wrong cus for some reason it boots to some 0x1ffff020 on gdb; unless, of course this is my misconfig. somewhere
2021-01-15T23:14:11 < qyx> what did you do to your boot0 pin?
2021-01-15T23:15:14 < jpa-> karlp: in case it ends up being expensive for you, i do have a liability insurance with 100e deductible, it might cover this if phrased suitably
2021-01-15T23:16:07 < mouseghost> when trying with st-util and then connecting to gdb it was shorted to 1 (HI?), when connecting through usb to test if DE LED BLINKS shorted to 0 (LOW?) -- i mean, it all worked in cube..
2021-01-15T23:16:41 < mouseghost> but i dont have reset attached and maybe im not setting up some kind of SWD-on-these pins info?
2021-01-15T23:19:59 < mawk> did you flash a ihex as a binary mouseghost ?
2021-01-15T23:20:02 < mawk> show commands
2021-01-15T23:21:05 < mawk> isn't substrate at the most negative potential zyp ?
2021-01-15T23:21:08 < mawk> in NPN
2021-01-15T23:21:11 < mawk> or maybe I'm mistaken
2021-01-15T23:21:56 < mouseghost> mawk, y'know, now im a bit lost how to do this ;d and i guess you are right; ill try to expl. state ihex :x 
2021-01-15T23:23:37 < qyx> I would say it boots to internal bootloader on 0x1fffsomething
2021-01-15T23:23:58 < qyx> so either the chip was cleared or the boot0 pin is wrong during reset
2021-01-15T23:24:44 < qyx> did you try to verify if it flashed corectly?
2021-01-15T23:25:24 < mouseghost> verify as in? well, st-flash says its jolly ;d
2021-01-15T23:25:35 < mouseghost> oh right i could download manually
2021-01-15T23:25:54 < qyx> maybe it has a verify function
2021-01-15T23:25:57 < qyx> downloads and copares
2021-01-15T23:26:00 < qyx> idk, I don§t use st-flash
2021-01-15T23:26:01 < mouseghost> ye
2021-01-15T23:26:43 < qyx> PaulFertser: speaking of, today I apt installed openocd, it pulled 0.11.0-rc1
2021-01-15T23:26:47 < mouseghost> anyways cant figure out how to flash ihex :D
2021-01-15T23:26:51 < mouseghost> openocd can flash?
2021-01-15T23:26:55 < qyx> sure
2021-01-15T23:27:00 < mouseghost> allright
2021-01-15T23:28:58 < karlp> jpa-: meh, shouldn't come done on you, wasn't caused by you.
2021-01-15T23:29:05 < PaulFertser> qyx: yeah, Debian maintainer is cool like that
2021-01-15T23:29:28 < karlp> your "hazardous indiciation" did make me think it was not working for some reason, and I didn't read the sheet properly to see that what I was doing whsan't even allowed _with_ your isolator :)
2021-01-15T23:30:39 < karlp> but yes, as a beta tester, i strongly would reocmmend that an isolator for a scope shouldn definitely be allowed to measure 230v mains...
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2021-01-15T23:31:27 < karlp> can't see anything obviously fried  with scope or second hub. keybord opening time!
2021-01-15T23:32:39 < qyx> when I was considering whether to ask jpa for a sample I concluded it is not suitable for my 400V smps for some reason
2021-01-15T23:32:54 < qyx> that day I made a note to buy some 20VA isolation transformer instead
2021-01-15T23:33:19 < karlp> 13 hex bolts, /me reaches for a drill
2021-01-15T23:33:27 < qyx> :>
2021-01-15T23:33:40 < jpa-> qyx: you should've told me, now it will be :)
2021-01-15T23:34:09 < qyx> are you redoing it?
2021-01-15T23:34:58 < jpa-> did a small modification today, to have +-500v range with 10x probe
2021-01-15T23:35:22 < jpa-> and earlier reworked to get 600v creepage
2021-01-15T23:36:21 < jpa-> (600v reinforced isolation, that is)
2021-01-15T23:38:42 < mouseghost> now that im trying openocd (and failing at verify) ;-;
2021-01-15T23:38:57 < qyx> can you share?
2021-01-15T23:39:16 < qyx> how do you run openocd
2021-01-15T23:39:45 < zyp> templated vector table: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/3bzlK
2021-01-15T23:40:28 < zyp> I feel a bit weird about eliminating most preprocessor usage and then throwing in a bunch of jinja templating instead
2021-01-15T23:42:44 < mouseghost> qyx, https://waifupaste.moe/raw/jWI.txt
2021-01-15T23:43:01 < zyp> on the other hand, preprocessor doesn't do for loops :)
2021-01-15T23:44:36 < qyx> mouseghost: whats obj/main, is it elf?
2021-01-15T23:44:40 < mouseghost> ye
2021-01-15T23:44:43 < qyx> that offset address ir redundant
2021-01-15T23:44:50 < mouseghost> obj\main: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, not stripped
2021-01-15T23:45:02 < qyx> whats your linker script?
2021-01-15T23:45:09 < qyx> Warn : no flash bank found for address 0x10000000
2021-01-15T23:45:14 < qyx> this is suspicious
2021-01-15T23:46:20 < mouseghost> qyx, https://waifupaste.moe/raw/lKT.s ld
2021-01-15T23:46:30 < zyp> mouseghost, can you do «arm-none-eabi-objdump -h» on the file?
2021-01-15T23:46:50 < mouseghost> i mean, i can even send you the whole file if you have the time ;d
2021-01-15T23:46:54 < zyp> sure
2021-01-15T23:46:58 < qyx> mouseghost: also arm-none-eabi-readelf --sections obj/main
2021-01-15T23:47:20 < zyp> qyx, is that different from objdump -h?
2021-01-15T23:47:31 < qyx> just trying your objdump
2021-01-15T23:47:35 < qyx> basically the same
2021-01-15T23:48:59 < mouseghost> qyx, zyp https://waifupaste.moe/raw/fOU.txt
2021-01-15T23:49:14 < mouseghost> i mean, readelf looks way nicer...
2021-01-15T23:49:36 < zyp> uh, no :)
2021-01-15T23:50:16 < qyx> lol yeah
2021-01-15T23:50:20 < qyx> remove the offset
2021-01-15T23:50:31 < qyx> 0x08000000 * 2 is 0x10000000
2021-01-15T23:50:41 < zyp> ah, duh
2021-01-15T23:50:55 < qyx> 0x20000000 + 0x08000000 is 0x28000000
2021-01-15T23:51:04 < qyx> exactlky what openocd reports
2021-01-15T23:51:21 < zyp> also you should fix your linker script so it properly merges sections
2021-01-15T23:51:33 < zyp> i.e. add *(.text.
2021-01-15T23:51:39 < zyp> *(.text.*)
2021-01-15T23:51:44 < zyp> and *(.data.*)
2021-01-15T23:52:06 < zyp> also you're missing .bss
2021-01-15T23:52:33 < zyp> and .data should have a LMA in flash and a startup routine to copy initial contents to ram
2021-01-15T23:52:40 < PaulFertser> Where's the wrong script from, how did mouseghost ended up with it?
2021-01-15T23:52:58 < zyp> who knows :)
2021-01-15T23:53:09 < qyx> I always steal one
2021-01-15T23:53:11 < mouseghost> hmmm
2021-01-15T23:53:45 < mouseghost> https://github.com/hg2ecz/stm32f103-minimal-examples/blob/master/01_blink_led/minimal.ld
2021-01-15T23:54:23 < zyp> it's a bit too minimal to be practical
2021-01-15T23:54:31 < mouseghost> qyx, someone would need to lead me by a hand lol 
2021-01-15T23:54:45 < qyx> is it working now?
2021-01-15T23:55:07 < mouseghost> n-now?
2021-01-15T23:55:21 < qyx> remove the offset from the openocd invocation command
2021-01-15T23:55:26 < mouseghost> ah
2021-01-15T23:56:26 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: you should be just giving an elf file to openocd, and not specifying any offset.
2021-01-15T23:56:41 < mouseghost> yeah, that i understood :D
2021-01-15T23:56:51 < karlp> hrmm, das keyboard has a captive usb3 micro bcable inside :)
2021-01-15T23:57:53 < mouseghost> hm, it still fails at verify, but gives Warn : no flash bank found for address 0x20000000 instead of the other errors
2021-01-15T23:58:31 < mouseghost> ive looked into the flash and it has some residue data, maybe it clashes? though i assumed it read just enough for verification...
2021-01-15T23:58:51 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: that address is normally mapped to RAM, I guess you just have some static variables defined there.
2021-01-15T23:59:14 < zyp> mouseghost, that's because you don't have .data LMA set to flash, like I said :)
2021-01-15T23:59:45 < mouseghost> ;-;
--- Day changed Sat Jan 16 2021
2021-01-16T00:00:04 < zyp> here's how a reasonable objdump should look: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/3AGJ2
2021-01-16T00:00:27 < zyp> ignore everything from debug on, those are irrelevant
2021-01-16T00:00:34 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I hope this motivates you to read the info manual section of GNU ld regarding the linker scripts. It looks like you right digging.
2021-01-16T00:01:04 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, grr
2021-01-16T00:01:37 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: why else would you be starting your stm32 journey with a broken hand-crafted script? ;)
2021-01-16T00:03:01 < zyp> taking the steep learning curve ;)
2021-01-16T00:03:43 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T00:07:47 < mouseghost> mum i dont want to be embedded dev. anymore
2021-01-16T00:14:47 < karlp> how did you possibly come to "let'suse ada, and some random arse ld script from some random arse github" ?
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2021-01-16T00:16:13 < karlp> was looking for a regulator to check supplies on this keyboard, couldn't see any....
2021-01-16T00:16:31 < karlp> nuc123 has an integrated LDO for 5V operation, and the usb3 hub of course can as well.
2021-01-16T00:16:35 < mouseghost> karlp, im a cool kid .w.
2021-01-16T00:16:39 < mouseghost> or wannabe
2021-01-16T00:21:29 < mouseghost> well, it doesnt work but at least loop is there, as promised
2021-01-16T00:24:02 < zyp> damn, I love google sheets
2021-01-16T00:25:27 < zyp> copypasted interrupt tables from RM PDF, couple of seconds to remove rows with page header/footer garbage, then I've got a nice table of interrupt name/numbers
2021-01-16T00:25:58 < mouseghost> uwu
2021-01-16T00:27:10 < englishman> wow opensores development sounds complicated
2021-01-16T00:27:45 < englishman> I sure do like clicking a few buttons in cube and clicking one additional button in keil to have a working project and graphical debugger
2021-01-16T00:30:21 < mouseghost> hm, how to make debugging when i have no nrst available uhhh
2021-01-16T00:30:54 < karlp> silly thing has two discrete 2.5A usbload switches, 
2021-01-16T00:31:03 < karlp> and just puts them in ganged mode anyway
2021-01-16T00:31:05 < karlp> lameo
2021-01-16T00:31:13 < karlp> anyway, found a shorted diode.
2021-01-16T00:31:19 < karlp> might be able to fix the keyboard!
2021-01-16T00:32:54 < zyp> :)
2021-01-16T00:33:34 < mouseghost> ehhh
2021-01-16T00:34:02 < karlp> anyone baidu connected to get the rest of this? https://wenku.baidu.com/view/98caf5270066f5335a81211f.html?re=view
2021-01-16T00:34:19 < Steffanx> your url doesnt work..
2021-01-16T00:34:23 < Steffanx> goes to the home page
2021-01-16T00:36:32 < karlp> nvm, found an vl813 pdf, looks similar enough
2021-01-16T00:37:15 < karlp> he, even uses this special brand load switches in the reference schemati
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2021-01-16T00:41:22 < mouseghost> :<
2021-01-16T00:43:09 < mouseghost> wait so data is executed from ram?
2021-01-16T00:44:51 < mouseghost> https://waifupaste.moe/raw/j0p.txt
2021-01-16T00:44:52 < mouseghost> grr
2021-01-16T00:45:01 < zyp> data is not executed, it's data
2021-01-16T00:45:11 < Steffanx> is that Ada?
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2021-01-16T00:45:42 < mouseghost> Steffanx, its supposed to be, yeah
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2021-01-16T00:56:44 < mouseghost> im really confused whether im doing something wrong with the boot or with my code ehh
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2021-01-16T00:57:49 < karlp> meh, 1.2V out from usb3 hub is dead, part's probably blown
2021-01-16T00:57:54 < karlp> fuck it. let's have a beer and watch tv.
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2021-01-16T00:58:13 < mouseghost> ill go play minecraft or something
2021-01-16T00:58:18 -!- canton7 [canton7@about/csharp/regular/canton7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-01-16T00:58:19 < Steffanx> enjoy
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2021-01-16T00:58:28 < emeb_mac> karlp: a motto for 2021
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2021-01-16T00:59:02 < zyp> karlp, question; was scope on an ungrounded outlet so the entire fault current went through the usb connection?
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2021-01-16T00:59:19 < karlp> scope is a usb scope
2021-01-16T00:59:25 < zyp> ah
2021-01-16T00:59:25 < karlp> so yes...
2021-01-16T00:59:31 < karlp> like I said, bullet, head
2021-01-16T00:59:41 < karlp> especially after having just measured it with the dmm
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2021-01-16T00:59:58 < qyx> a beaky-level error
2021-01-16T01:00:23 < mouseghost> ;-;
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2021-01-16T01:02:48 < Steffanx> lol who called beaky ?
2021-01-16T01:02:54 < Steffanx> you did qyx .
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2021-01-16T01:35:19 < catphish> morning
2021-01-16T01:55:23 < mouseghost> hm, does anyone have any idea why gcc doesn't put an initialized variable in the section?
2021-01-16T01:56:42 < mouseghost> i gave it that __attribute__((section(".vectors")))
2021-01-16T02:03:20 < mawk> how do you know where it is?
2021-01-16T02:03:25 < mawk> please show full code also
2021-01-16T02:03:34 < mawk> did you have a declaration for the variable also?
2021-01-16T02:04:36 < mawk> why are you here beaky 
2021-01-16T02:04:43 < mawk> it's not morning catphish 
2021-01-16T02:04:47 < mawk> stop lying
2021-01-16T02:04:53 < catphish> go fuck yourself i don't care
2021-01-16T02:05:01 < catphish> i mean, err, sorry, evening
2021-01-16T02:05:05 < mawk> I'm not flexible enough to perform this act
2021-01-16T02:06:17 < mouseghost> mawk, https://waifupaste.moe/raw/lYl.c
2021-01-16T02:06:18 < mouseghost> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2021-01-16T02:06:25 < mawk> what
2021-01-16T02:06:28 < catphish> how long do i have to be unemployed before i'm officially classes as a bum?
2021-01-16T02:06:36 < mawk> what is this mouseghost 
2021-01-16T02:06:44 < mouseghost> also, ofc i've f-up and the first thing including }; is the c thing and the latter is linker script
2021-01-16T02:06:44 < mawk> did you mix a linker script with your source code??
2021-01-16T02:06:47 < mawk> ah
2021-01-16T02:06:49 < mouseghost> just in the paste
2021-01-16T02:07:11 < mawk> why did you make the vector table volatile? you're going to modify it?
2021-01-16T02:07:25 < mawk> are you building with -Wall -Wextra ?
2021-01-16T02:07:37 < mouseghost> nooo ;w; but i hoped it would be more probable that gcc wont delete it
2021-01-16T02:07:45 < mouseghost> maybe i should just do that in asm...
2021-01-16T02:07:47 < mawk> well gcc would tell you "attribute ignored"
2021-01-16T02:07:57 < mawk> because you need to put __attribute__ before the variable definition, not after
2021-01-16T02:07:59 < mawk> if I remember correctly
2021-01-16T02:08:08 < mawk> so, always compile with -Wall -Wextra
2021-01-16T02:08:25 < mawk> __attribute__((__section__(".vectors"))) volatile vector_t vs[] = {...};
2021-01-16T02:08:29 < mawk> like this
2021-01-16T02:08:46 < mawk> also, what is this: typedef void (*vector_t)();
2021-01-16T02:08:49 < mawk> are you doing C++
2021-01-16T02:08:52 < catphish> but -Wall -Wextra just makes errors, if you don't specify them, the errors go away and everything is okay!
2021-01-16T02:08:54 < mawk> why are you not giving an argument list
2021-01-16T02:09:14 < mawk> () isn't a C thing, you need (void)
2021-01-16T02:09:19 < mawk> catphish :(
2021-01-16T02:09:50 < catphish> :)
2021-01-16T02:10:19 < mouseghost> it doesnt tell me anyyything
2021-01-16T02:10:28 < catphish> i always put my attribute flags in the wrong place and they get ignored, it's kinda infuriating
2021-01-16T02:10:28 < mawk> in any case put the attribute before
2021-01-16T02:10:34 < mouseghost> allright...
2021-01-16T02:11:11 < mouseghost> mawk, i kinda looked at how laks does it and tried to copy lol
2021-01-16T02:11:11 < catphish> and with (packed) sometimes this really isn't obvious until it's too lae
2021-01-16T02:11:26 < mawk> yeah it depends on the context mouseghost 
2021-01-16T02:11:30 < mawk> nobody ever remembers
2021-01-16T02:12:12 < mouseghost> either im looking at the wrong thing or i dont know
2021-01-16T02:12:26 < mawk> how do you know in which section it goes?
2021-01-16T02:12:34 < mouseghost> mawk, what do you mean?
2021-01-16T02:12:48 < mawk> well, how do you know vs isn't going in the .vectors section?
2021-01-16T02:13:12 < mouseghost> i cant see that 06007008 thing in the binary
2021-01-16T02:13:21 < mawk> it's little endian
2021-01-16T02:13:30 < mouseghost> so whaat
2021-01-16T02:13:34 < catphish> can you see it anywhere in the binary?
2021-01-16T02:13:46 < mouseghost> nope
2021-01-16T02:13:49 < mawk> so look for 08 70 00 06
2021-01-16T02:13:49 < catphish> try 70080600
2021-01-16T02:13:52 < mawk> because it's little endian
2021-01-16T02:14:05 < mawk> bytes are reversed from the mathematical order
2021-01-16T02:14:07 < mouseghost> still nothiiing
2021-01-16T02:14:16 < catphish> or i mean 08700006
2021-01-16T02:14:21 < catphish> not what i said before
2021-01-16T02:14:30 < mouseghost> besides, readelf shows size 0 in .vectors section
2021-01-16T02:14:42 < catphish> well if its not anywhere in the binary the problem isnt the location
2021-01-16T02:14:45 < mawk> paste result of arm-none-eabi-objdump -x yourelf
2021-01-16T02:14:55 < mawk> are you really linking with the object file?
2021-01-16T02:15:20 < catphish> are you *using* it? could it just be optimized out?
2021-01-16T02:15:27 < mouseghost> catphish, yeah i was thinking it could
2021-01-16T02:15:32 < mouseghost> does the ld optimize?
2021-01-16T02:15:43 < mawk> sometimes
2021-01-16T02:15:46 < mawk> if you use lto or stuff
2021-01-16T02:15:58 < mawk> or if you use a library and not an object file
2021-01-16T02:16:11 < mawk> then you would need -u vs on the ld command line to force it being included
2021-01-16T02:16:46 < mouseghost> now now... which linker is it
2021-01-16T02:16:51 < mouseghost> i guess goodnight eh
2021-01-16T02:16:58 < mawk> you're using a library? or an object file
2021-01-16T02:17:01 < mawk> .a or .o
2021-01-16T02:17:38 < mouseghost> it says .o
2021-01-16T02:17:46 < mouseghost> but os are really similar to as...
2021-01-16T02:17:50 < mawk> os?
2021-01-16T02:17:55 < mawk> ah
2021-01-16T02:17:56 < qyx> fuk I cannot buy F042G6U6
2021-01-16T02:17:58 < qyx> norG4
2021-01-16T02:18:00 < mawk> ld treat them differently
2021-01-16T02:18:01 < qyx> nor can transceivers
2021-01-16T02:18:07 < qyx> everything is 30 weeks lead time
2021-01-16T02:18:09 < mawk> can you show the objdump result so mouseghost ?
2021-01-16T02:18:11 < mawk> in a pastebin
2021-01-16T02:18:13 < mouseghost> yes uwu
2021-01-16T02:18:26 < mouseghost> i was just trying diff things
2021-01-16T02:18:34 < mawk> don't worry
2021-01-16T02:18:57 < mouseghost> mawk, https://waifupaste.moe/raw/dBH.txt
2021-01-16T02:19:55 < mawk> you haven't linked with your c file
2021-01-16T02:20:29 < mawk> also
2021-01-16T02:20:35 < mawk> you need to make the section allocatable and so on
2021-01-16T02:20:40 < mawk> I think
2021-01-16T02:20:42 < mawk> let me show you
2021-01-16T02:21:09 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T02:21:23 < mouseghost> now as im thinking about it, im kinda thinking it might be even more complicated
2021-01-16T02:21:34 < mawk> add __used__ also
2021-01-16T02:21:40 < mawk> to the attribute
2021-01-16T02:21:45 < mawk> to prevent linker garbage collection
2021-01-16T02:21:48 < mouseghost> after a space?
2021-01-16T02:22:05 < mawk> __attribute__((__section__(".vectors"), __used__)) __volatile__ vector_t vs[] = {...};
2021-01-16T02:22:07 < mawk> like this
2021-01-16T02:22:21 < mouseghost> oh wow
2021-01-16T02:23:00 < mouseghost> okay ive added that
2021-01-16T02:23:11 < mawk> also hmm I'd do something like putting it in the .data.vectors section
2021-01-16T02:23:16 < mawk> then in your linker file you fetch it
2021-01-16T02:23:20 < mawk> from that subsectionb
2021-01-16T02:23:24 < mouseghost> i mean
2021-01-16T02:23:26 < mouseghost> im dumb
2021-01-16T02:23:26 < mawk> then it has already the right attributes
2021-01-16T02:23:32 < mouseghost> really dumb uhh
2021-01-16T02:23:39 < mouseghost> sorry for taking your timeee or something
2021-01-16T02:23:40 < mawk> you forgot to link with that file?
2021-01-16T02:23:43 < mawk> lol don't worry
2021-01-16T02:23:45 < mouseghost> well, not quite
2021-01-16T02:23:47 < mouseghost> but its ada
2021-01-16T02:23:57 < mouseghost> and it assembles libremote.a which has this section
2021-01-16T02:24:02 < mouseghost> with non-zero size
2021-01-16T02:24:58 < mouseghost> how to code in assembly
2021-01-16T02:25:02 < mouseghost> wait wrong window
2021-01-16T02:30:45 < mawk> lol
2021-01-16T02:30:51 < mawk> why would you do it in assembly mouseghost ?
2021-01-16T02:30:54 < mawk> just fix your linker
2021-01-16T02:30:58 < mawk> link with this .o and that's it
2021-01-16T02:31:05 < mawk> or change the section name if ada is occupying it
2021-01-16T02:31:15 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-16T02:31:30 < mouseghost> oh no, ada is not occupying it; its just some, weird specific i guess -- idk i dont know ada
2021-01-16T02:31:40 < mouseghost> i thought it was cool, but maybe it isnt so cool
2021-01-16T02:32:04 < mawk> ada is cool for embedded
2021-01-16T02:32:08 < mawk> ask specing 
2021-01-16T02:32:11 < mawk> he's the ada expert
2021-01-16T02:32:20 < zyp> okay, I'm reasonably happy with the interrupt overhaul so far: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit?id=172d694
2021-01-16T02:33:11 < zyp> the fun part is how I throw out the f1 interrupt list and put in a f4 interrupt list :)
2021-01-16T02:33:52 < mouseghost> ive been banned from my usual shitposting group so ill ask here: do you like hugs?
2021-01-16T02:33:53 < mouseghost> specing, is ada cool
2021-01-16T02:34:13 < mawk> who doesn't like hugs
2021-01-16T02:34:25 < zyp> there's enough overlap between f1 and f4 interrupts that I've never bothered changing it
2021-01-16T02:34:26 < mawk> but only from women
2021-01-16T02:34:39 < mouseghost> >~>
2021-01-16T02:34:50 < zyp> mawk, pff, why discriminate?
2021-01-16T02:35:15 < mawk> it doesn't make me feel the same when it's from men
2021-01-16T02:36:34 < zyp> shame
2021-01-16T02:36:47 < mawk> :(
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2021-01-16T02:40:25 < mouseghost> :/
2021-01-16T02:47:16 < mouseghost> ehh
2021-01-16T02:47:20 < mouseghost> maybe ada is for some later time ;p
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2021-01-16T02:48:52 < mouseghost> a bug in c (probably) wont kill anyone and messing with registers in ada isnt so safe, is it?
2021-01-16T02:50:02 < zyp> it's possible to write shit code in any language :)
2021-01-16T02:52:28 < mouseghost> zyp, i have a degree in that ;p
2021-01-16T02:58:33 < qyx> the sjortage is real
2021-01-16T02:59:17 < qyx> I cannot buy common cheap F0's, buck converters, can transceivers
2021-01-16T03:01:32 < steve_> qyx what quantity?
2021-01-16T03:01:50 < qyx> sing
2021-01-16T03:01:57 < qyx> les for protos
2021-01-16T03:02:52 < steve_> ok nvm ; )
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2021-01-16T03:10:22 < mouseghost> psst kid wanna buy some chips?
2021-01-16T03:21:51 < zyp> hmm, riscv-gcc trips up on some of the async code that arm-gcc handles fine
2021-01-16T03:22:10 < zyp> building with -fno-inline is a workaround
2021-01-16T03:23:13 < zyp> 10.2.0 vs 10.2.1, but I'm not sure it's there
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2021-01-16T03:29:19 < mouseghost> zyp, laks is urs, right?
2021-01-16T03:30:22 < mouseghost> anyways allright
2021-01-16T03:30:29 < mouseghost> gooodnight sleep tight sweet dreams
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2021-01-16T03:45:34 < specing> haha
2021-01-16T03:45:39 < specing> Ada is cool
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2021-01-16T04:01:24 < jly> hey mister, what happened to the car?
2021-01-16T04:13:58 < zyp> hah, renode is pretty neat
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2021-01-16T04:15:42 < zyp> built laks for gd32v, so I wrote a platform description instancing a rv32imac cpu and a stm32_uart, and shit just works
2021-01-16T04:16:16 < zyp> haven't finished risc-v interrupt support yet, so I instanced the cortex-m NVIC instead, and that also almost work :)
2021-01-16T04:18:35 < zyp> or not, idk
2021-01-16T04:19:51 < zyp> pretty neat to be able to piece together a simulated platform like that anyway
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2021-01-16T12:42:04 < qyx> zyp: so hows your feeling about riscv?
2021-01-16T12:42:12 < qyx> does it feel mature?
2021-01-16T12:45:27 < zyp> what part of it? :)
2021-01-16T12:45:49 < qyx> overall
2021-01-16T12:46:09 < zyp> the core parts of it seems mature enough at least
2021-01-16T12:46:17 < zyp> I mean, the core ISA
2021-01-16T12:47:01 < qyx> and devel tools?
2021-01-16T12:47:08 < qyx> idk what do you even use
2021-01-16T12:47:36 < qyx> I remember riscv support in openocd is somewhat incomplete
2021-01-16T12:48:47 < zyp> so far I get the impression core support in mainline is reasonable, but not so much support for specific parts
2021-01-16T12:49:37 < zyp> which is fair enough since the parts are fairly new
2021-01-16T12:50:14 < qyx> hmm https://github.com/riscv-rust/k210-example/blob/master/openocd.cfg
2021-01-16T12:51:46 < zyp> I haven't tried k210 yet, might have better support than gd32v
2021-01-16T12:51:52 < zyp> also, does it even have internal flash?
2021-01-16T12:52:01 < qyx> probably not
2021-01-16T12:52:09 < qyx> they usually add qspi
2021-01-16T12:52:33 < qyx> I like k210 but fear the peripherals
2021-01-16T12:53:32 < zyp> I should probably pick up a k210 board some time
2021-01-16T12:58:26 < qyx> everybody seems to be making forks of openocd to add support
2021-01-16T12:58:57 < zyp> yeah?
2021-01-16T12:59:22 < zyp> that's how opensource dev usually works, people make forks to add features, and the ones that matures gets merged back in mainline
2021-01-16T13:01:25 < qyx> but but
2021-01-16T13:02:48 < zyp> hmm
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2021-01-16T13:04:40 < zyp> next thing to figure out is how to abstract over the difference between various interrupt architectures
2021-01-16T13:05:22 < zyp> NVIC is really easy; there's exceptions and interrupts, exceptions are first 16 entries, rest are interrupts
2021-01-16T13:06:53 < zyp> riscv also got exceptions and interrupts
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2021-01-16T13:07:53 < zyp> exceptions are fairly similar to cortex-m, there's 16 of them defined so far, but the number is not bounded
2021-01-16T13:09:32 < zyp> for interrupts there are a «software», «timer» and «external» interrupt defined for each protection level (and basic microcontrollers only have one level)
2021-01-16T13:10:20 < zyp> the external interrupt is triggered by IRQs, controlled by some external IRQ controller, of which there are a few varieties
2021-01-16T13:10:26 < qyx> are timer interrupts special in any sense?
2021-01-16T13:11:15 < zyp> timer is usually internal to the core, I believe
2021-01-16T13:11:34 < qyx> and other peripherals? like tx complete, fifo empty, etc
2021-01-16T13:11:35 < zyp> kinda how the systick interrupt on cortex-m is an exception
2021-01-16T13:11:57 < qyx> so timers are in the core instead of being peripherals?
2021-01-16T13:12:11 < zyp> again, like systick
2021-01-16T13:12:26 < zyp> systick is internal to the cortex-m core, but other timers are external
2021-01-16T13:12:32 < qyx> ah
2021-01-16T13:14:31 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0ZsNU.png
2021-01-16T13:15:30 < zyp> user/supervisor stuff is not interesting for microcontrollers, so you can ignore those
2021-01-16T13:15:41 < zyp> it's all machine mode
2021-01-16T13:16:23 < zyp> so all IRQs will come in through interrupt 11
2021-01-16T13:16:58 < zyp> and then there's a variety of external controllers that mux that
2021-01-16T13:18:28 < zyp> PLIC seems to be a super simple interrupt router that can route 1k inputs to ~16k output
2021-01-16T13:18:56 < zyp> but again in single core microcontrollers there will only be one output in use :p
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2021-01-16T13:21:48 < zyp> and then there's a CLIC that apparently tries to be more like NVIC and can optionally do its own vectoring
2021-01-16T13:22:03 < zyp> and then there's also some super simple stuff
2021-01-16T13:22:32 < zyp> e.g. vexriscv has a simple 32-input thing controlled by a 32-bit enable register and a 32-bit pending register
2021-01-16T13:25:24 < zyp> I figure I can solve this by installing an interrupt<(IRQ)11>-handler appropriate for the interrupt controller in use, and use that to dispatch to interrupt<(IRQ)(16 + n)>
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2021-01-16T15:13:45 < mouseghost> uhh
2021-01-16T15:13:48 < mouseghost> why did i touch ada again
2021-01-16T15:14:12 < jpa-> we tricked you into it
2021-01-16T15:14:21 < jpa-> in reality you should try rust, ada is pretty outdated
2021-01-16T15:18:01 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T15:25:33 < Steffanx> can you do something for me mouseghost ?
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2021-01-16T15:25:42 < mouseghost> what is it Steffanx?
2021-01-16T15:26:10 < Steffanx> Can you create "mouseghostssmileys.com" and explain your smileys on there? :P
2021-01-16T15:26:52 < mouseghost> sorri no monie
2021-01-16T15:27:11 < mouseghost> Steffanx, you clearly arent watching enough anime
2021-01-16T15:27:21 < Steffanx> duuuh
2021-01-16T15:29:12 < mouseghost> Steffanx, do you even have programming socks?
2021-01-16T15:30:25 < Steffanx> i have https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/12671/files/302745042/450x450x2/every1-spaanse-slof-zwart.jpg
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2021-01-16T15:31:38 < mouseghost> Steffanx, this looks... very german for some reason
2021-01-16T15:31:51 < Steffanx> dont call me german
2021-01-16T15:32:03 < qyx> :D
2021-01-16T15:48:53 < dongs> what kind of people use PADS layout?
2021-01-16T15:48:57 < dongs> man that shit looks like fucking cancer
2021-01-16T15:49:01 < mouseghost> anyone up to debugging my thing?
2021-01-16T15:49:19 < dongs> not in ada, sorry
2021-01-16T15:49:21 < dongs> rewrite it in C
2021-01-16T15:49:26 < dongs> and  you might actually find the problem in the process
2021-01-16T15:49:36 < dongs> (hint: problem is ada)
2021-01-16T15:50:06 < mouseghost> it is in c
2021-01-16T15:50:07 < mouseghost> now
2021-01-16T15:50:24 < mouseghost> https://gist.github.com/dracconi/76b3a2a5110a1b43292d1761535d8e20
2021-01-16T15:51:37 < dongs> and waht is the problem? other htan awful indentation it looks ok
2021-01-16T15:52:27 < mouseghost> dongs, the led doesnt light up ;c
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2021-01-16T16:01:16 < dongs> you have a debugger right?
2021-01-16T16:01:29 < mouseghost> yeaaa
2021-01-16T16:01:38 < mouseghost> buuut
2021-01-16T16:02:03 < mouseghost> no idea how to continue to the program without reset connected
2021-01-16T16:03:11 < dongs> ?
2021-01-16T16:03:18 < dongs> you dont need reset connected if you use swd
2021-01-16T16:06:22 < dongs> https://www.mentor.com/pcb/multimedia/overview/how-to-use-partquest-with-pads-2fb7575e-e69e-4b50-ad0d-f2cf0313c3ae Lol
2021-01-16T16:06:53 < mouseghost> dongs, but should i boot with jumpers to the main flash and then attach gdb?
2021-01-16T16:07:03 < dongs> what jumpers?
2021-01-16T16:07:23 < mouseghost> uhh
2021-01-16T16:07:24 < dongs> idk what you do with gdb but you can just connect, reset (via swd) and start stepping or whatever
2021-01-16T16:07:26 < mouseghost> BOOT pins
2021-01-16T16:07:31 < dongs> why are you evne touching boot pins
2021-01-16T16:07:35 < dongs> just boot it from flash as normal
2021-01-16T16:07:43 < mouseghost> eee
2021-01-16T16:07:45 < mouseghost> for programming...?
2021-01-16T16:07:51 < dongs> you dont need to program it 10 times
2021-01-16T16:07:56 < dongs> if you already flashed the shit its still in flash
2021-01-16T16:07:58 < dongs> the fuck?
2021-01-16T16:08:03 < dongs> do you not program it over swd?
2021-01-16T16:08:40 < mouseghost> :eyes:
2021-01-16T16:10:16 < specing> problem is: C!
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2021-01-16T16:14:15 < mouseghost> specing, ada didnt work either
2021-01-16T16:14:44 < specing> heh
2021-01-16T16:15:48 < specing> mouseghost: can I see the Ada code?
2021-01-16T16:15:58 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T16:16:14 < mouseghost> specing, thanks but no use now, really ;x
2021-01-16T16:16:14 < Steffanx> The only thing that works with the wrong input is perl..
2021-01-16T16:16:22 < specing> mouseghost: ??
2021-01-16T16:16:22 < mouseghost> i just want the led to light up
2021-01-16T16:16:42 < mouseghost> specing, already went to C; also, probably the biggest problem is with the 'setup' things
2021-01-16T16:16:53 < specing> mouseghost: GPS probably has a 10x led blinky example
2021-01-16T16:18:37 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T16:20:04 < specing> both me and marble_visions use stm32f0 mcus, though
2021-01-16T16:20:37 < specing> Or maybe he uses others as well, idk
2021-01-16T16:29:02 < mouseghost> aha cool... so led lights up when odr is 0, hmmmmmmm
2021-01-16T16:29:06 < mouseghost> cool...
2021-01-16T16:30:41 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUCHNBnv7Io
2021-01-16T16:30:45 < jadew> france is back at it
2021-01-16T16:31:17 < mouseghost> specing, well, i tried that to emulate C https://gist.github.com/dracconi/f939945ced4b0b543c7dd261ee9ebc21
2021-01-16T16:32:16 < mouseghost> that is, without the pragma; but that doesnt even compile uhh
2021-01-16T16:33:15 < mouseghost> but im not even sure if i can do without doing some more magic with rts
2021-01-16T16:40:52 < dongs> < mouseghost> aha cool... so led lights up when odr is 0, hmmmmmmm
2021-01-16T16:41:01 < dongs> um yeah, you dont know how your shit was hooked up? sink or source
2021-01-16T16:41:12 < dongs> if it lights up with zero then it means sink, so yeah, making it 0 makes sense
2021-01-16T16:41:46 < specing> mouseghost: whats the error, missing Main and System?
2021-01-16T16:41:53 < mouseghost> this is some chinese knockoff board
2021-01-16T16:42:04 < mouseghost> specing,  subtype indication expected at line 8 ;d
2021-01-16T16:42:05 < specing> bluepill?
2021-01-16T16:42:09 < mouseghost> specing, quasi
2021-01-16T16:42:28 < mouseghost> its actually black and kinda wider
2021-01-16T16:42:57 < specing> mouseghost: you can't have a subtype without naming a type... so just make a proper type
2021-01-16T16:43:01 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2021-01-16T16:43:13 < specing> also, doesen't system have a System.Address?
2021-01-16T16:43:28 < mouseghost> it doeees
2021-01-16T16:43:55 < mouseghost> specing, if i do type Addr is System.Address; then it tells me: missing "new"
2021-01-16T16:43:56 < mouseghost> :d
2021-01-16T16:44:26 < mouseghost> oh, adding new solves this lol
2021-01-16T16:44:27 < mouseghost> nvm
2021-01-16T16:44:35 < mouseghost> or not 
2021-01-16T16:44:41 < mouseghost> its just complicated and all
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2021-01-16T17:07:05 < specing> lol
2021-01-16T17:07:14 < specing> It literaly tells you what to do :P
2021-01-16T17:07:54 < mouseghost> >~>
2021-01-16T17:07:58 < specing> also, no need to define a new type, just : constant System.Address (0 .. 1) := ...
2021-01-16T17:08:03 < mouseghost> well, i actually got to some point when it compiles uhh
2021-01-16T17:09:43 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-16T17:13:57 < BrainDamage> https://www.hackster.io/news/555-powered-trollduino-74cde9ac99cb
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2021-01-16T17:30:03 < englishman> the opposite of productivity is conductivity.
2021-01-16T17:30:47 < mawk> lol
2021-01-16T17:33:15 < mouseghost> specing, why dooooesnt it liiiink
2021-01-16T17:33:34 < mawk> eat your mashed potatoes and be quiet mouseghost 
2021-01-16T17:33:41 < mawk> you will get to play later
2021-01-16T17:33:48 < mouseghost> >:C
2021-01-16T17:34:55 < mouseghost> mawk, can i eat just the cutlet and leave out potatoes? 🙏
2021-01-16T17:35:10 < mawk> I don't know what a cutlet is
2021-01-16T17:35:15 < mawk> I'm not english enough
2021-01-16T17:35:57 < mouseghost> mawk, im not sure how english it is... what are you, btw?
2021-01-16T17:36:04 < mawk> I'm french
2021-01-16T17:36:06 < mawk> and dutch
2021-01-16T17:36:08 < mouseghost> oh
2021-01-16T17:36:13 < mawk> and also luxembourgisch
2021-01-16T17:36:36 < mouseghost> 1/16th or actually? mawk
2021-01-16T17:36:40 < mawk> actually
2021-01-16T17:36:44 < mawk> the three passports
2021-01-16T17:37:41 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-16T17:38:04 < mouseghost> mawk, well, do you know what devolay is?
2021-01-16T17:38:14 < mawk> no
2021-01-16T17:38:31 < mouseghost> de volaille?
2021-01-16T17:38:43 < mawk> yes
2021-01-16T17:38:53 < mawk> la volaille
2021-01-16T17:38:58 < mawk> poulet, chicken, kip
2021-01-16T17:39:06 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-16T17:39:28 < mawk> anything that flies really
2021-01-16T17:39:35 < mawk> voler is to fly
2021-01-16T17:39:37 < mawk> or to steal
2021-01-16T17:39:52 -!- Ad0 [~Ad0@93.124.245.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-01-16T17:39:56 < mouseghost> mawk, how's a fly in french then
2021-01-16T17:39:59 < Steffanx> where is mr mouseghost from?
2021-01-16T17:40:01 < mouseghost> that thing in pants
2021-01-16T17:40:09 < mouseghost> Steffanx, from beautiful country of polen
2021-01-16T17:40:09 < mawk> une mouche
2021-01-16T17:40:11 < mawk> what
2021-01-16T17:40:15 < mawk> you have flies in your pants?
2021-01-16T17:40:16 < mouseghost> mawk, uhh zipper?
2021-01-16T17:40:17 < mawk> you mean zip?
2021-01-16T17:40:20 < mouseghost> ye
2021-01-16T17:40:23 < mawk> braguette
2021-01-16T17:40:28 < mouseghost> baguette hm
2021-01-16T17:40:31 < mawk> no
2021-01-16T17:40:34 < mawk> with a r
2021-01-16T17:40:35 < mawk> lol
2021-01-16T17:40:35 < Steffanx> Poland.. ohno
2021-01-16T17:40:40 < mouseghost> Steffanx, what?
2021-01-16T17:40:41 < mawk> braguette
2021-01-16T17:40:44 < mouseghost> baguette
2021-01-16T17:40:49 < mawk> it also designates the area of the jeans
2021-01-16T17:41:04 < mawk> otherwise literally zipper is fermeture eclair
2021-01-16T17:41:09 < mawk> the trademark of zip in france
2021-01-16T17:41:15 < mawk> "lighting fast fastener" or something
2021-01-16T17:41:18 < mouseghost> isnt eclair like a cake?
2021-01-16T17:41:23 < mawk> yes as well
2021-01-16T17:41:29 < mawk> but it's first a lightning bolt
2021-01-16T17:41:58 < mouseghost> weird
2021-01-16T17:42:07 < mawk> it comes from éclairer, to light up
2021-01-16T17:42:09 < mawk> probably
2021-01-16T17:43:09 < mouseghost> tbh im not a fan of roman languages
2021-01-16T17:43:57 < mawk> why
2021-01-16T17:44:14 < mawk> fucking jules caesar colonized us
2021-01-16T17:44:19 < mawk> don't call us roman language
2021-01-16T17:44:44 < mawk> call it "best language" that will suffice
2021-01-16T17:45:14 < mouseghost> mawk, roman comes from romania, which language defines roman languages group, trust me
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2021-01-16T17:46:07 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-16T17:46:11 < specing> mouseghost: what's the error?
2021-01-16T17:46:35 < mouseghost> specing, theres no error -- readelf shows empty section
2021-01-16T17:47:26 < mouseghost> a wait it didnt even link
2021-01-16T17:47:54 < specing> Turn Meta into a package, then place procedure ISR_Reset with External_Name => "ISR_Reset"; before procedure ISR_Reset
2021-01-16T17:49:35 < mouseghost> ye i did
2021-01-16T17:50:00 < mouseghost> i mean, i didnt do the with ext_name but i did linker_section
2021-01-16T17:51:03 < mouseghost> ok got it linked
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2021-01-16T17:55:24 < mouseghost> allright
2021-01-16T17:55:26 < mouseghost> it clicked and gdb works
2021-01-16T17:55:29 < mouseghost> thanks for everything
2021-01-16T17:55:35 < mouseghost> i mean, probably
2021-01-16T17:56:43 < mouseghost> and led lights up o;
2021-01-16T17:57:20 < mouseghost> programming socks actaully work
2021-01-16T17:58:16 < mawk> take that off immediately
2021-01-16T18:02:07 < englishman> what part of Poland?
2021-01-16T18:04:18 < mouseghost> englishman, south
2021-01-16T18:04:26 < Steffanx> Are you wearing your dick hat mawk ?
2021-01-16T18:05:24 < mawk> what dick hat Steffanx 
2021-01-16T18:05:26 < mawk> the unox hat?
2021-01-16T18:06:16 < Steffanx> nevermind
2021-01-16T18:06:21 < mawk> :(
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2021-01-16T18:07:46 < Steffanx> :)
2021-01-16T18:08:42 < mouseghost> i could also say 'the non-polish part of poland' i guess ;d
2021-01-16T18:10:27 < mawk> which language do you speak then
2021-01-16T18:10:27 < englishman> need mórē aččentëd lęttėrs region
2021-01-16T18:10:48 < mawk> c'est précisément ma pensée
2021-01-16T18:10:56 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas français
2021-01-16T18:11:03 < mawk> good you put the cédille
2021-01-16T18:11:05 < mawk> çççç
2021-01-16T18:11:23 < Steffanx> oui oui
2021-01-16T18:11:55 < mouseghost> nah nah not like that
2021-01-16T18:11:56 < mouseghost> mawk, polish
2021-01-16T18:12:02 < mouseghost> but im like talking about heritage or something
2021-01-16T18:12:07 < mouseghost> and overall uhh
2021-01-16T18:12:17 < mouseghost> whats its called... people density?
2021-01-16T18:12:49 < mawk> population density
2021-01-16T18:13:12 < mouseghost> yeah perhaps
2021-01-16T18:13:29 < mouseghost> and how cities are arranged (ie, how close they are to each other, what size they are etc)
2021-01-16T18:17:35 < englishman> the mountainy part?
2021-01-16T18:18:45 < mouseghost> not that south ;p, just highlands
2021-01-16T18:19:29 < Steffanx> Do you drive a Polski Fiat 126p aka maluch mouseghost ?
2021-01-16T18:19:35 < mouseghost> no ;p
2021-01-16T18:19:37 < Steffanx> Damn
2021-01-16T18:19:43 < mouseghost> im 17 lol
2021-01-16T18:19:51 < Steffanx> I'm disappointed
2021-01-16T18:19:56 < Steffanx> Its a perfect beginners car.
2021-01-16T18:20:10 < mouseghost> right...
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2021-01-16T18:20:34 < Steffanx> You're not allowed to drive when 17 in poland?
2021-01-16T18:20:38 < mouseghost> nope
2021-01-16T18:20:43 < Steffanx> interesting
2021-01-16T18:20:46 < mouseghost> i mean, it depends on what you mean
2021-01-16T18:20:55 < mouseghost> cat. B is from 18 afaik
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2021-01-16T18:21:00 < mawk> at last someone younger than me
2021-01-16T18:21:03 < Steffanx> Cant get your drivers license i mean. For a car.
2021-01-16T18:21:17 < Steffanx> Yeah youre old mawk 
2021-01-16T18:21:24 < mawk> :(
2021-01-16T18:21:27 < mouseghost> Steffanx, what do you mean?
2021-01-16T18:21:39 < Steffanx> nevermind, i got my answer
2021-01-16T18:22:06 < mouseghost> ah ;p
2021-01-16T18:22:18 < mouseghost> ill make one as soon as ill be able to, probably
2021-01-16T18:22:51 < Steffanx> Do you practice drunk driving in poland?
2021-01-16T18:23:33 < mouseghost> how do you mean lol
2021-01-16T18:23:39 < Steffanx> lol sorry, i like to ask questions based on the stereotyped polander.
2021-01-16T18:23:48 < mouseghost> i think its illegal to be drunk and drive ;d
2021-01-16T18:23:59 < Steffanx> Here in dutchland polish are known for drunk driving. So I wonder if its part of the exam :P
2021-01-16T18:24:23 < mouseghost> ah in that sense :D
2021-01-16T18:24:28 < englishman> welcome to stm32 mouseghost
2021-01-16T18:24:36 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-01-16T18:24:38 < englishman> 17 is a good age to start with stm32
2021-01-16T18:24:40 < mawk> you're driving on advocaat Steffanx ?
2021-01-16T18:24:43 < englishman> too bad about the opensores
2021-01-16T18:24:51 < Steffanx> im not a fan of advocaat
2021-01-16T18:24:54 < mouseghost> englishman, huh?
2021-01-16T18:24:55 < mawk> what's wrong about opensource
2021-01-16T18:25:14 < Steffanx> mouseghost he will say: keil keil. Just ignore that :P
2021-01-16T18:25:19 < mouseghost> ah
2021-01-16T18:25:25 < englishman> well it's like 3 days he's trying to get a led to blink? where that can be done in like 3 clicks of proper closedsores tools
2021-01-16T18:25:35 < mouseghost> HEY IT WAS BLINKING ALREADY ;C
2021-01-16T18:25:41 < mouseghost> in both c and ada
2021-01-16T18:26:35 < mouseghost> i guess it just took me a bit to get used to all that tooling uhh.. esp. when avr libc does linking automatically? and provides isrs?
2021-01-16T18:26:56 < mouseghost> Steffanx, imagine there are people enjoying wine ;x
2021-01-16T18:28:34 < englishman> 🤮
2021-01-16T18:29:16 < englishman> what do people use in your area for chat, WhatsApp?
2021-01-16T18:29:21 < englishman> telegram?
2021-01-16T18:29:35 < Steffanx> MSN
2021-01-16T18:29:54 < englishman> surely you can take a day off from trolling steffy? it's Saturday
2021-01-16T18:30:06 < englishman> go pet jolly
2021-01-16T18:30:10 < Steffanx> oh, it was a serious question englishman ?
2021-01-16T18:30:19 < englishman> yes I'm curious
2021-01-16T18:30:25 < englishman> it's so segmented here
2021-01-16T18:30:48 < Steffanx> Dutchland: WhatsApp in case you wanted to know.
2021-01-16T18:30:48 < englishman> sms, signal, Facebook, sms/MMS, hangouts
2021-01-16T18:31:01 < englishman> imessage
2021-01-16T18:31:10 < Steffanx> and maybe facebook messenger
2021-01-16T18:31:12 < mawk> even my grandmother uses whatsapp
2021-01-16T18:31:19 < Steffanx> and more technies use telegram
2021-01-16T18:31:26 < englishman> yeah WhatsApp seems popular everywhere except here
2021-01-16T18:31:30 < Steffanx> Signal is not really a thing, i think.
2021-01-16T18:32:12 < Steffanx> Whats popular in canada?
2021-01-16T18:32:17 < englishman> all of the above
2021-01-16T18:32:34 < Steffanx> ah ok
2021-01-16T18:32:53 < englishman> it's so gay
2021-01-16T18:33:18 < englishman> sms is actually quite nice because you can use Google messenger in a web browser
2021-01-16T18:34:08 < Steffanx> so enlighten us about poland mr mouseghost 
2021-01-16T18:48:03 < mouseghost> sorry, i was afk
2021-01-16T18:48:31 < mouseghost> englishman, old people use whatsapp, youngsters use fb messenger/instagram i guess; for drugs and shady business telegram
2021-01-16T18:48:49 < mouseghost> of course furries also use telegram, but that can be assumed to be shady business
2021-01-16T18:48:53 < englishman> ah good to know
2021-01-16T18:49:04 < englishman> of course old people for you is like 25+ right
2021-01-16T18:49:15 < mouseghost> probably more
2021-01-16T18:49:29 < mouseghost> more like having kids etc
2021-01-16T18:49:34 < mouseghost> or grandkids
2021-01-16T18:50:05 < mouseghost> though ive installed signal recently again and there is more people than they were (some ~10, was 2, inc. me)
2021-01-16T18:50:16 < qyx> old people having kids?
2021-01-16T18:50:20 < qyx> hrmpfh
2021-01-16T18:50:24 < mouseghost> :|
2021-01-16T18:50:49 < mouseghost> old person is defined as a person in an age at which an average person has had at least one child
2021-01-16T18:51:13 < mawk> do you have kids qyx ??
2021-01-16T18:51:38 < englishman> yes he is making lorawan ankle monitors for them all
2021-01-16T18:51:49 < mawk> lol
2021-01-16T18:53:38 < Steffanx> Dont you know your fellow ##stm32 mates.. damn you mawk
2021-01-16T18:55:10 < mawk> :(
2021-01-16T18:57:21 < mouseghost> personally i prefer telegram hmmm
2021-01-16T18:57:28 < mawk> no
2021-01-16T18:57:29 < mawk> you prefer IRC
2021-01-16T18:57:29 < mouseghost> but jabber is the best 
2021-01-16T18:57:40 < mouseghost> i do prefer irc as well
2021-01-16T18:57:51 < mouseghost> but consider that these belong in different cateogires mawk
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2021-01-16T19:00:47 < mouseghost> now as i can use both ada and c, i dont know which one to use uhh
2021-01-16T19:01:13 < mawk> use ada if you know it
2021-01-16T19:01:18 < mawk> you will make specing happy
2021-01-16T19:01:49 < mouseghost> specing, will you hug me
2021-01-16T19:06:44 < englishman> mouseghost do you like cats
2021-01-16T19:06:51 < mouseghost> englishman, oh yes, why?
2021-01-16T19:07:00 < englishman> you can join the ##stm32 telegram channel
2021-01-16T19:07:04 < englishman> for cats
2021-01-16T19:07:32 < qyx> speaking of cats
2021-01-16T19:07:36 < mouseghost> englishman, how do i join it?
2021-01-16T19:07:51 < englishman> idk actually lol pm me your nick or whatever and il invite you
2021-01-16T19:07:54 < qyx> I have not seen one of our wild garden cats for some time
2021-01-16T19:08:02 < qyx> I suspect it is frozen somewhere
2021-01-16T19:12:38 < fenugrec> zyp do you actually have esp32-c3 hardware or just coding 'in the air' ?
2021-01-16T19:18:58 < mawk> poor cat qyx 
2021-01-16T19:19:01 < mawk> go look for it
2021-01-16T19:20:12 < specing> mouseghost: hug? huh?
2021-01-16T19:20:15 < emeb> when we had a yardcat we made a nest for him to hang out in when it got cold
2021-01-16T19:20:52 < emeb> cut a hole in a big plastic storage bin and put some fleece blankets in it. He loved it.
2021-01-16T19:23:08 < mawk> do you have butterflies in the stomach when you look at pictures of men mouseghost ?
2021-01-16T19:23:28 < mouseghost> not really mawk
2021-01-16T19:24:35 < qyx> emeb: the neighbor did the same
2021-01-16T19:24:51 < mouseghost> stm32f1, i suppose USB periph. takes care of all these things of initializing PMA etc? or not?
2021-01-16T19:24:56 < mouseghost> and setting up addresses
2021-01-16T19:28:03 < mawk> DMA you mean?
2021-01-16T19:28:13 < mawk> you have to do it yourself
2021-01-16T19:28:17 < mawk> or I don't get your question
2021-01-16T19:32:53 < qyx> jpa-: how do you solve reorganizing lines in a kicad_pcb file when it is saved (wrt commiting to git)?
2021-01-16T19:33:37 < qyx> 1662 lines changed when I edited a single line of text and saved
2021-01-16T19:34:47 < mawk> it changes the line endings?
2021-01-16T19:34:54 < mawk> \r\n to \n
2021-01-16T19:35:14 < mawk> ah no just moved around
2021-01-16T19:36:36 < jpa-> qyx: i just ignore it, i'm not trying to diff .kicad_pcb's anyway
2021-01-16T19:43:40 < qyx> I am curious if it be feasible to do a sanitizer
2021-01-16T19:43:50 < qyx> which would reorder things before commiting
2021-01-16T19:44:19 < qyx> (idk whats the format like and if it is possible whatsoever)
2021-01-16T19:44:36 < jpa-> might be easier to patch pcbnew to add some .sort() somewhere
2021-01-16T19:49:38 < qyx> hm
2021-01-16T19:50:56 < srk> format is s-expressions
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2021-01-16T19:56:51 < jpa-> qyx: looks like it is done already in git: https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-source-mirror/commit/0a5f11fb37205153a496d9bb57e0f5d56d56e115
2021-01-16T19:59:56 < qyx> looks trivial
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2021-01-16T20:07:32 < srk> nice
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2021-01-16T20:25:44 < mouseghost> mawk, uhh addresses of where the data goes
2021-01-16T20:26:54 < mouseghost> whats DMA
2021-01-16T20:27:04 < mawk> direct memory access
2021-01-16T20:28:16 < mouseghost> im just confused about what usb peripheral sets up
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2021-01-16T20:28:55 < Laurenceb> The universal solution to all problems. Do nothing, not by governmentmandate, not by the free market, not voluntarily as an individual, and just say whatever happens isn’t actually a problem. just it in ur basement eating cheetos forever, thats the ultimate political system.
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2021-01-16T20:52:21 < bitmask> damn, this vacuum pump is a beast
2021-01-16T20:52:29 < Steffanx> Im still glad laurenceb thinks of us and takes the effort to join and dump some shit here.
2021-01-16T20:53:04 < Steffanx> Dont do it bitmask . Dont do it.
2021-01-16T20:53:24 < bitmask> too late! :P
2021-01-16T20:55:01 < Thorn> this thread is full of EEs https://superuser.com/questions/1617615/is-it-safe-to-use-ram-with-a-damaged-capacitor
2021-01-16T20:55:17 < Thorn> one cap missing = ram will burn
2021-01-16T20:56:04 < Thorn> from an electronics design background 
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2021-01-16T21:00:22 < zyp> fenugrec, I haven't done anything for esp32-c3 yet, but I have gd32v-hardware
2021-01-16T21:00:59 < zyp> I also have fpga hardware capable of running a vexriscv, but I haven't made a bitstream for that yet
2021-01-16T21:01:46 < fenugrec> zyp, ah I confused the two conversations the other day of c2/c3 etc. Doesn't look like c3 is available anywhere yet
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2021-01-16T21:04:15 < englishman> it isn't :(
2021-01-16T21:04:21 < englishman> but esp32 is $3 cad in singles at digikey
2021-01-16T21:04:22 < englishman> nuts
2021-01-16T21:04:59 < englishman> cheaper than f103c8
2021-01-16T21:05:06 < englishman> (which is out of stock)
2021-01-16T21:05:20 < fenugrec> anyone tried the "LR" wifi flavor on those ? not a whole lot of examples on the net, a few people did range tests
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2021-01-16T22:04:15 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-16T22:04:19 < mouseghost> why is it so hard uh
2021-01-16T22:04:29 < Steffanx> its not.
2021-01-16T22:04:42 < Steffanx> Install keil, stm32cubeide, whatever and get going :P
2021-01-16T22:05:14 < Steffanx> then when you have an idea what youre doing you can always start using your own makefiles, linkerscripts and what not
2021-01-16T22:05:20 < mouseghost> Steffanx, im trying to comprehend usb function ;d
2021-01-16T22:05:27 < Steffanx> oh alright
2021-01-16T22:05:49 < mouseghost> ive flashed it correctly this morning already ;pp
2021-01-16T22:06:02 < mouseghost> i mean, i guess i could slap laks...
2021-01-16T22:06:09 < Steffanx> you could
2021-01-16T22:06:37 < Steffanx> 🤖
2021-01-16T22:07:09 < mouseghost> am a real man i use registers
2021-01-16T22:11:07 < zyp> even Steffanx uses laks for usb :p
2021-01-16T22:12:23 < srk> mouseghost: http://kevincuzner.com/2018/01/29/bare-metal-stm32-writing-a-usb-driver/
2021-01-16T22:12:36 < srk> Steffanx: install arduino, get going
2021-01-16T22:13:23 < mouseghost> zyp, is it no-"ill sue you"-licensed?
2021-01-16T22:13:34 < zyp> bsd 2-clause
2021-01-16T22:15:18 < mouseghost> bdsm?
2021-01-16T22:15:44 < zyp> tomato tomato
2021-01-16T22:19:33 < Steffanx> lol true zyp 
2021-01-16T22:21:19 < mouseghost> huh
2021-01-16T22:25:52 < Steffanx> mm
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2021-01-16T22:28:15 < catphish> hello sirs
2021-01-16T22:28:24 < zyp> hello cats
2021-01-16T22:28:25 < mouseghost> eh im just torn apart between doing it myself and using laks...
2021-01-16T22:28:49 < catphish> what are you hoping to achieve?
2021-01-16T22:29:05 < zyp> I mean, if you use laks you get to do most of the stuff yourself anyway :p
2021-01-16T22:29:15 < catphish> i usually come down on the side of DIY, but LAKS has helped me out in the past with how to do things, it's nice and readable
2021-01-16T22:29:28 < mouseghost> you have a point...
2021-01-16T22:29:49 < mouseghost> well, the only problem is with usb, bcuz windows is a little shit
2021-01-16T22:30:14 < mouseghost> idk how do you debug usb
2021-01-16T22:30:17 < catphish> yeah, USB is hard, i did it myself, took a while, but i understand the hell out of it now
2021-01-16T22:30:33 < catphish> it's also where i looked at laks for a LOT of help
2021-01-16T22:30:36 < mouseghost> at least it isnt atmega where is no usb ;x
2021-01-16T22:31:05 < zyp> mouseghost, usb analyzer :)
2021-01-16T22:31:12 < mouseghost> what do you use for usb debugging? i mean, wireshark and usbpcap is an option, but it gets clogged...
2021-01-16T22:31:17 < mouseghost> zyp, what do you meeean
2021-01-16T22:31:35 < catphish> i has USB code here if you need any more low level examples https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/usb.c
2021-01-16T22:31:46 < zyp> mouseghost, e.g. https://www.totalphase.com/products/beagle-usb480/
2021-01-16T22:32:06 < mouseghost> zyp, thats... expensive...
2021-01-16T22:32:19 < zyp> yeah, I'm only borrowing it
2021-01-16T22:32:25 < mouseghost> could i open an usb cable and attach a scope to it or something
2021-01-16T22:32:55 < zyp> but I've been borrowing it for almost ten years now :)
2021-01-16T22:33:24 < mouseghost> ha ha..
2021-01-16T22:33:39 < zyp> also yes
2021-01-16T22:34:01 < zyp> if you have a logic analyzer that's fast enough to capture 12MHz signals, sigrok can decode usb
2021-01-16T22:34:17 < mouseghost> ive had a chinese knockoff hmm
2021-01-16T22:34:33 < zyp> but IME that's more useful to look at low level issues
2021-01-16T22:34:37 < mouseghost> its medium-rare 
2021-01-16T22:34:41 < mouseghost> yee
2021-01-16T22:34:46 < mouseghost> and scope is even lower
2021-01-16T22:34:46 < zyp> high level stuff is better done with a protocol analyzer
2021-01-16T22:34:57 < mouseghost> but i guess theres usbpcap hm
2021-01-16T22:35:03 < catphish> the standard logic analyser is that fast isn't it?
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2021-01-16T22:35:17 < zyp> this thing looks fairly promising: https://github.com/greatscottgadgets/luna
2021-01-16T22:35:17 < catphish> (the $10 chinese one with the fx2 thing)
2021-01-16T22:35:31 < zyp> catphish, the saleae clone? no
2021-01-16T22:35:45 < zyp> IIRC it does max 24 MHz, which is not enough oversampling for 12MHz signals
2021-01-16T22:35:58 < mouseghost> ah
2021-01-16T22:36:01 < catphish> is it a clone? i thought it was just a generic dumb passthough
2021-01-16T22:36:08 < zyp> idk
2021-01-16T22:36:15 < catphish> though yes, i think that's the one i mean as i've seen it referred to as saleae
2021-01-16T22:38:24 < catphish> yeah, you're right, it's 24MHz, probably not good enough for full speed USB
2021-01-16T22:39:46 < mouseghost> how to cheat in roblox
2021-01-16T22:40:06 < catphish> ?
2021-01-16T22:40:31 < mouseghost> just shitposting
2021-01-16T22:46:14 < mouseghost> eh, so basically both OUT and SETUP packets end up in ADDRn_RX?
2021-01-16T22:47:29 < mouseghost> yeah i think so..
2021-01-16T22:47:37 < catphish> i forget :(
2021-01-16T22:48:28 < catphish> that code i posted is needlessly complicated because it uses double buffering, which you don't need unless you're approaching the full speed
2021-01-16T22:49:10 < mouseghost> dw
2021-01-16T22:49:43 < zyp> yeah, most usb peripherals use the same receive buffer whether it's a SETUP or OUT package
2021-01-16T22:50:48 < mouseghost> i see
2021-01-16T22:52:26 < catphish> despite saying i understood it, i realise i've now forgotten the details of how the different endpoints interact with things like SETUP and ep0
2021-01-16T22:52:37 < mouseghost> :D
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2021-01-16T22:55:32 < mouseghost> aaaaalso, as i understand, i can have printf working with swd, right?
2021-01-16T22:56:38 < catphish> printf does whatever you make it do
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2021-01-16T23:38:16 < mouseghost> eee do i need to return from interrupts somehow? or is it automatic?
2021-01-16T23:44:57 < zyp> in what sense?
2021-01-16T23:45:56 < zyp> on cortex-m, the interrupt hardware takes care of state saving/restoring so handlers can be normal eabi functions
2021-01-16T23:46:15 < karlp> fenugrec: no-one has esp32-c3 yet as far as I can tell, zyp was working with gd32v
2021-01-16T23:46:22 < karlp> (and vexriscv on fpga)
2021-01-16T23:46:27 < zyp> karlp, that's what I was also saying :)
2021-01-16T23:46:59 < karlp> qyx: re line merging7synching in kicad files, this is something that is addressed in the new file format,
2021-01-16T23:47:15 < karlp> they're trying to take that a bit mor eseriously to minimize changes, insteada of just splatting serialization
2021-01-16T23:49:26 < karlp> yeah, sory, I was further in the scrollback than I thought...
2021-01-16T23:50:22 < zyp> will be getting esp32-c3 eventually though, so I'm aiming to support that too
2021-01-16T23:52:45 < zyp> I mean, I don't really see myself actually using gd32v in a design any time soon, I don't see what the benefit in that would be
2021-01-16T23:54:03 < zyp> it's just that support is easy to piece together when I already got support for stm32 peripherals
2021-01-16T23:56:36 < zyp> another bikeshedding question: in yaml definitions, should list names be pluralized or not? periph/interrupt/irq/exception or periphs/interrupts/irqs/exceptions?
2021-01-16T23:57:44 < karlp> classic DB problem :)
2021-01-16T23:58:01 < karlp> particularly when it comes to ORM software :)
2021-01-16T23:58:53 < zyp> I'm also trying to figure out how to best deal with this hierarchical shit
2021-01-16T23:59:08 < zyp> on cortex-m I got exceptions and irqs
2021-01-16T23:59:39 < karlp> yeah, I have no input there.
2021-01-16T23:59:58 < mouseghost> karlp, idk in db its kinda clearer i think..
--- Day changed Sun Jan 17 2021
2021-01-17T00:00:04 < karlp> you're probably going to have different implementaitons, so I'dgo with just making the handlers be declared the same way.
2021-01-17T00:00:10 < karlp> mouseghost: how is it different?
2021-01-17T00:00:24 < karlp> should the thing that stores a collection be named a plural or not.
2021-01-17T00:00:26 < mouseghost> karlp, i mean, isnt it industry standard to name tables in pluralized forms?
2021-01-17T00:00:36 < zyp> I think I should probably avoid shoehorning the internal interrupts into irqs and make a third category
2021-01-17T00:01:20 < mouseghost> tbh its more logical is the identifier is plural if it ids. a collection...
2021-01-17T00:01:21 < mouseghost> at least imo
2021-01-17T00:01:26 < zyp> karlp, you know how I use templates to define handlers?
2021-01-17T00:01:41 < karlp> so, say I'd had my usb scope connected to my laptop instead of my desktop, I probably would have been "fine" yesterday right? I would have just gotten a shock by touching the laptop?
2021-01-17T00:02:02 < zyp> i.e. void interrupt<Exception::HardFault>() { … } and void interrupt<IRQ::USART1>() { … }
2021-01-17T00:02:10 < zyp> yes
2021-01-17T00:02:13 < zyp> I've done that
2021-01-17T00:02:37 < karlp> didn't get to the shop today to get a new cheap usb keyboard, so still not sure how the mobo is :|
2021-01-17T00:03:04 < zyp> was measuring something live with a usb LA once, tried to use a usb isolator first
2021-01-17T00:03:05 < karlp> might try emailing das keyboard, see about a replacement parts
2021-01-17T00:03:19 < zyp> but they are like LS/FS only, which is not very useful for a LA :)
2021-01-17T00:03:33 < karlp> it's plausible to try and hot air the usb3 hub that
2021-01-17T00:03:41 < karlp> s clearly dead, it's common enough just tedious
2021-01-17T00:03:43 < mouseghost> karlp, you made me scared to program embeds now...
2021-01-17T00:04:10 < zyp> so we plugged the LA into a disconnected laptop, and only used a plastic mouse to carefully interact with the laptop
2021-01-17T00:04:23 < zyp> or maybe it was a wireless mouse, was a while ago
2021-01-17T00:04:30 < karlp> mouseghost: I wasnt doing "embedded" I was doing stupid shit
2021-01-17T00:04:44 < mouseghost> usb is usb thoo
2021-01-17T00:05:03 < karlp> apparently this is the cheapest way to buy spare vl812 parts: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001234412573.html
2021-01-17T00:05:07 < karlp> and I get two !
2021-01-17T00:05:25 < zyp> karlp, speaking of wireless, I recommend getting a logitech k400 for «I need a keyboard/mouse for something quick» situations
2021-01-17T00:06:18 < zyp> I've had one for some years and it's so convenient I picked up a second last black friday
2021-01-17T00:06:20 < karlp> well, I had an old cheap gigabyte one, but it was the sort of thing that got tossed in the move, after not having been used for x years
2021-01-17T00:06:31 < karlp> is that one of the ones iwth a trackpad on the end?
2021-01-17T00:06:35 < zyp> yes
2021-01-17T00:06:50 < zyp> perfect for when you also need a mouse, and doesn't get in the way when you don't
2021-01-17T00:07:15 < karlp> yar, well.
2021-01-17T00:07:24 < karlp> gonna play video games for a bit i think
2021-01-17T00:07:32 < karlp> meant to be taking a break from work shits :)
2021-01-17T00:08:11 < zyp> one of mine actually went to oslo the other day along with the SBC I've been working on for some demo stuff (I didn't go, but it was part of the full working setup I sent)
2021-01-17T00:09:00 < zyp> s/SBC/SoM devkit/
2021-01-17T00:09:34 < karlp> oh ffs
2021-01-17T00:09:47 < karlp> ali epxress is having one of it's fits where I'm not allowed to buy things again
2021-01-17T00:09:55 < zyp> fun
2021-01-17T00:10:06 < zyp> oh, speaking of buying stuff
2021-01-17T00:10:23 < zyp> what's a good android tablet for kids?
2021-01-17T00:11:10  * karlp has no clue on that sorry
2021-01-17T00:13:45 < zyp> I want something cheap but durable enough you can hand it to a one year old without worrying, preferably not super outdated software
2021-01-17T00:15:11 < zyp> battery life is less important, not planning to raise the kid on it
2021-01-17T00:19:05 < mouseghost> can i fill the whole interrupt table with zeroes somehow? or is pasting zeroes in the initializer the only way?
2021-01-17T00:19:18 < mouseghost> i mean, i wished i could access it index wise, but seems like its not possible?
2021-01-17T00:19:32 < zyp> C has designated initializers for arrays
2021-01-17T00:20:06 < mouseghost> a good, thanks
2021-01-17T00:20:14 < mouseghost> or not?
2021-01-17T00:20:17 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-17T00:20:34 < zyp> C++ doesn't.
2021-01-17T00:21:16 < mouseghost> yeah im on c, but i was wondering if a specific thing worked, and it actually did, probably, so hm
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2021-01-17T00:39:58 < mouseghost> what if i go above the freq limit?
2021-01-17T00:41:17 < steve_> I'm trying to unroll a loop of nops, can't get it with GCC pragmas, eg. #pragma GCC unroll 168 for(int k=0; k<168; k++){ __asm("nop"); }    or  #pragma GCC optimize ("unroll-loops") .  The dissasembly shows no unrolling happened.  I have -O0.  anyone done this ?  or some other way to get a blob of nops?
2021-01-17T01:05:24 < qyx> zyp: galaxy tab e 10 in a rugged silicone frame
2021-01-17T01:05:27 < qyx> approved
2021-01-17T01:07:22 < Steffanx> does that even support a recent android version?
2021-01-17T01:07:43 < zyp> I just ordered a «kids bumper» for lenovo m10
2021-01-17T01:08:16 < qyx> Steffanx: no, officially 4.4.4
2021-01-17T01:08:22 < qyx> lineage has 7.1
2021-01-17T01:08:26 < Steffanx> hahaha, then tis a terrible choice
2021-01-17T01:08:38 < qyx> sure
2021-01-17T01:08:43 < zyp> haha
2021-01-17T01:08:52 < qyx> I am keeping it because of the silicone frame
2021-01-17T01:09:16 < qyx> it is still somewhatgood with quad core, 1.5G ram and 16G flash
2021-01-17T01:09:20 < zyp> the lenovo m10 looks like the right choice, it's available locally for cheap and comes with android 9
2021-01-17T01:09:32 < Steffanx> yeah looks fine indeed
2021-01-17T01:10:41 < zyp> there's a bunch of different models, both in generations, connectivity and resolution, but I figure the cheapest looks good enough
2021-01-17T01:10:58 < zyp> still new enough to have android 9 and 1280x800 should be plenty
2021-01-17T01:11:57 < qyx> how much is it?
2021-01-17T01:13:53 < qyx> hm varies
2021-01-17T01:13:59 < qyx> from about 120e
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2021-01-17T01:18:37 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-17T01:18:49 < zyp> 111€ including norwegian VAT of 25%
2021-01-17T01:19:35 < zyp> and then I ordered this for it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000416093801.html
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2021-01-17T01:28:45 < fenugrec> simple things amuse me... " $ touch this        touch: cannot touch 'this': Permission denied"
2021-01-17T01:29:05 < fenugrec> mc hammer would approve
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2021-01-17T01:54:03 < mawk> lol
2021-01-17T01:54:20 < mawk> for how long have you been alone fenugrec ?
2021-01-17T01:54:22 < mawk> you need help
2021-01-17T02:08:25 < zyp> haha
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2021-01-17T02:19:37 < Steffanx> Where is kakium69 hmm
2021-01-17T02:28:08 < Steffanx> And thanks for putting that song in my head fenugrec 
2021-01-17T02:28:25 < fenugrec> Steffanx, glad to be of service
2021-01-17T02:29:28 < jadew> I would replace it for you, but my music is too commercial for this fine crowd
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2021-01-17T02:37:39 < mouseghost> meh, why doesnt usb catch my interrupt ;(((
2021-01-17T02:38:18 < Steffanx> Yes jadew 
2021-01-17T02:38:52 < zyp> mouseghost, did you enable it everywhere?
2021-01-17T02:39:05 < mouseghost> zyp, everywhere, i.e.?
2021-01-17T02:39:12 < mouseghost> oh, i might have not enabled usb in rcc
2021-01-17T02:39:55 < Steffanx> Try this instead jadew 
2021-01-17T02:39:58 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/S7IfKNhN1oQ
2021-01-17T02:39:58 < zyp> well, all interrupts needs to be enabled at least both in the peripheral and in the NVIC to actually trigger
2021-01-17T02:40:14 < Steffanx> The latest hit from your all time favourite app tiktok
2021-01-17T02:40:41 < jadew> Steffanx, I like it
2021-01-17T02:40:52 < zyp> and complex peripherals like USB controllers might have tiered interrupt enables in the peripheral, so you might need to set multiple bits to enable the interrupt you're interested in
2021-01-17T02:41:19 < Steffanx> Hah me too, jadew. Especially the effect of this super low voice.
2021-01-17T02:41:28 < zyp> e.g. you might need to enable both a bit saying you're interesting in ep0_rx events and another bit saying you're interested in rx events at all
2021-01-17T02:41:31 < Steffanx> None of the editions on the web have this 
2021-01-17T02:41:49 < jadew> also, tiktok is growing on me
2021-01-17T02:42:24 < zyp> in which case the first one exists because you might only be interested in particular endpoints, and the second one exists because sometimes it's useful to turn on and off all rx interrupts
2021-01-17T02:43:59 < mouseghost> zyp, well, i tried to enable all interrupts in USB_CNTR
2021-01-17T02:44:22 < zyp> mouseghost, which chip are you using anyway?
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2021-01-17T02:44:24 < mouseghost> then enabled through NVIC
2021-01-17T02:44:34 < mouseghost> zyp, uhh stm32f103-something
2021-01-17T02:45:18 < mouseghost> i mean, at least i expected an interrupt on usb connect but maybe im thinking wrong hm
2021-01-17T02:45:18 < zyp> are you sure there are any events on the bus to catch? are you doing any sort of soft-detach?
2021-01-17T02:45:40 < zyp> elaborate on «usb connect»
2021-01-17T02:46:04 < Steffanx> Is mouseghost doing his own stack?
2021-01-17T02:46:11 < mouseghost> Steffanx, yes
2021-01-17T02:46:17 < Steffanx> Hah alright 
2021-01-17T02:46:22 < zyp> if the host sees a device and tries to talk to it before you have code ready to reply, host might give up before you're ready
2021-01-17T02:46:35 < mouseghost> zyp, i have an usb cable, and i have stm32, and i connect both .w.
2021-01-17T02:47:01 < mouseghost> but shouldnt it like trigger anything?
2021-01-17T02:47:06 < zyp> after the code is started?
2021-01-17T02:47:28 < zyp> i.e. the code is already running by the time you plug in the cable?
2021-01-17T02:47:35 < mouseghost> yus
2021-01-17T02:47:40 < mouseghost> at least i think so
2021-01-17T02:48:00 < zyp> okay, fair, then you don't need to emulate it through soft detach/attach :)
2021-01-17T02:48:13 < mouseghost> huh
2021-01-17T02:48:20 < mouseghost> youuuu areee confusing meee
2021-01-17T02:48:22 < zyp> next question, how is your DP pullup connected?
2021-01-17T02:48:55 < mouseghost> heh too bad i cant make this joke here
2021-01-17T02:49:01 < mouseghost> zyp, eee i dunno
2021-01-17T02:49:12 < mouseghost> its a <<blackpill>> thingggg
2021-01-17T02:49:46 < zyp> better find out then
2021-01-17T02:49:50 < mouseghost> why do you ask?
2021-01-17T02:49:51 < zyp> I'm not gonna look it up for you
2021-01-17T02:50:08 < zyp> because the DP pullup is what signals device presence
2021-01-17T02:50:13 < mouseghost> i mean, it worked with cubemx thing
2021-01-17T02:50:18 < zyp> host won't try to talk to you before it detects DP pullup
2021-01-17T02:50:39 < zyp> and if that's controlled by a GPIO, you have to turn it on :)
2021-01-17T02:52:39 < mouseghost> i figured D:
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2021-01-17T03:01:00 < mouseghost> zyp, then, what does "As soon as the USB is enabled, these pins are automatically connected to the USB internal transceiver."
2021-01-17T03:01:02 < mouseghost> mean
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2021-01-17T03:01:35 < mouseghost> oh right, nvm
2021-01-17T03:01:54 < kakium69> evenings stms
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2021-01-17T03:09:49 < mouseghost> ;_;
2021-01-17T03:10:22 < kakium69> why sad?
2021-01-17T03:11:01 < mouseghost> bcuz not working
2021-01-17T03:14:17 < mouseghost> ah cool so it isnt initialized at all
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2021-01-17T03:23:08 < jadew> hmm, didn't know twitter has porn
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2021-01-17T03:51:44 < qyx> kakium69: hows finnish winter going
2021-01-17T03:51:58 < kakium69> cold and now warm again
2021-01-17T03:52:15 < kakium69> I got my car stuck in snow too
2021-01-17T03:52:40 < qyx> how much snow do you have?
2021-01-17T03:53:16 < kakium69> not much but there was a drift of snow
2021-01-17T03:53:38 < qyx> I should check
2021-01-17T03:53:50 < qyx> the weather radar says it is snowing
2021-01-17T03:54:17 < kakium69> apparently awd doesn't do it's jubb if wheels are not touching the ground
2021-01-17T03:54:57 < qyx> has you turtled on a snow?
2021-01-17T03:55:25 < mouseghost> gn
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2021-01-17T03:56:31 < kakium69> yes turtled
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2021-01-17T04:13:14 < kakium69> I need to add a showel to accesories next to jump cables, oil and coolant
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2021-01-17T12:13:19 < karlp> hrm, ninterwebnet says my ali error code is now permanent until I send ali a copy of a bank statement and a drivers license and a photo of the card.
2021-01-17T12:13:25 < karlp> fuck that bullshit
2021-01-17T12:18:20 < qyx> what error?
2021-01-17T12:18:31 < qyx> did you lock you out?
2021-01-17T12:19:08 < zyp> fun
2021-01-17T12:22:08 < karlp> CSC_7200026
2021-01-17T12:22:26 < karlp> might be simpler to get  anew card from the bank :)
2021-01-17T12:30:30 < zyp> haha
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2021-01-17T12:38:20 < qyx> reading some reddits, looks lol
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2021-01-17T14:44:45 < mouseghost> hi meow
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2021-01-17T14:50:38 < mouseghost> WHY DOES NOBODY MEOW BACK
2021-01-17T14:50:59  * Streaker is scared of mice that meow
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2021-01-17T14:53:41 < mouseghost> can i ask something???
2021-01-17T15:02:18 < Streaker> looks like nobody's around.
2021-01-17T15:08:27 < Steffanx> Did you read the topic mouseghost ?
2021-01-17T15:08:40 < mouseghost> Steffanx, yes :^
2021-01-17T15:08:48 < Steffanx> Excellent
2021-01-17T15:09:07 < mouseghost> splendid
2021-01-17T15:10:26 < Steffanx> Then how dare you ask this question
2021-01-17T15:11:13 < Streaker> it doesn't say anywhere in the /topic that links have to be followed.
2021-01-17T15:12:29 < Steffanx> "Don't ask to ask" Streaker  ;)
2021-01-17T15:12:41 < Streaker> Reeding is hard.
2021-01-17T15:13:09 < Steffanx> true
2021-01-17T15:22:55 < mouseghost> wtf so buffer table and buffers are in the same memory space?
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2021-01-17T16:52:48 < mawk> it's arm, mouseghost 
2021-01-17T16:52:51 < mawk> there's only one memory
2021-01-17T16:53:02 < mawk> but I don't know what you mean by buffer and buffer table
2021-01-17T16:55:06 < Steffanx> ARM only one memory. My arse, måwk
2021-01-17T16:55:20 < jpa-> only one address space
2021-01-17T16:55:21 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-17T16:55:47 < mouseghost> yesterday the interrupt worked, today it doesnt 
2021-01-17T16:55:59 < Steffanx> Yes it does. Gotta catch them all
2021-01-17T16:59:47 < mouseghost> yay great i have problems with struct offset
2021-01-17T16:59:47 < mouseghost> YAY
2021-01-17T16:59:50 < mouseghost> I LOVE PROGRAMMING
2021-01-17T17:00:33 < mouseghost> or not hm
2021-01-17T17:00:46 < specing> > mouseghost | WHY DOES NOBODY MEOW BACK
2021-01-17T17:00:56 < specing> your MEOW BACK handler ISR is at the wrong address
2021-01-17T17:01:20 < mouseghost> ;/
2021-01-17T17:01:43 < Steffanx> Lol specing 
2021-01-17T17:01:51 < mouseghost> maybe i should just use usb driver from keil ;-;
2021-01-17T17:01:56 < mouseghost> i should, right?
2021-01-17T17:03:19 < Steffanx> Must use keil uvision
2021-01-17T17:07:06 < mawk> yes Steffanx there's only one address space
2021-01-17T17:07:08 < mawk> it's all flat
2021-01-17T17:07:20 < mawk> like x86
2021-01-17T17:07:31 < mawk> well x86 has this io port shit but it's not really address
2021-01-17T17:08:22 < mawk> primarily for some pci and old devices like serial port or CMOS chip for bios or whatever
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2021-01-17T17:33:43 < mawk> Steffanx: https://brakofcorona.nl/
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2021-01-17T17:53:47 < Steffanx> i have corona :(
2021-01-17T17:54:49 < Steffanx> thanks mawk 
2021-01-17T17:55:21 < mawk> good
2021-01-17T17:55:38 < mawk> you're feeling slecht Steffanx ?
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2021-01-17T17:57:06 < Steffanx> Always mawk 
2021-01-17T17:57:12 < mawk> why
2021-01-17T17:57:47 < Steffanx> Out of heroine.
2021-01-17T17:58:04 < mawk> that sucks
2021-01-17T17:58:06 < mawk> you want some?
2021-01-17T17:58:17 < mawk> give me your address
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2021-01-17T18:04:11 < Steffanx> lol no thanks.
2021-01-17T18:04:22 < Steffanx> tcth_ / tcth is alive \o/
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2021-01-17T18:06:58 < tcth_> jo o/
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2021-01-17T19:21:00 < englishman> you got the rona for real stefs?
2021-01-17T19:21:08 < mawk> no
2021-01-17T19:21:14 < mawk> he did my test: https://brakofcorona.nl/
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2021-01-17T20:37:56 < mouseghost> yeah im not doing this usb implementing anymore :|||
2021-01-17T20:37:58 < mouseghost> dis too hard
2021-01-17T20:40:53 < catphish> it is hard, though it's possible if you attack it in stages
2021-01-17T20:41:06 < mouseghost> im at the stage of doing RESET....
2021-01-17T20:43:34 < mouseghost> im confused when i am supposed to set up what...
2021-01-17T20:47:36 < catphish> i'm happy to go through it with you :)
2021-01-17T20:48:49  * srk is interested too
2021-01-17T20:49:12 < catphish> for starters, you basically need this init sequence https://github.com/catphish/flex-floppy/blob/master/usb.c#L12..L40
2021-01-17T20:49:45 < catphish> also, can you confirm what chip you're using, mine is based on L433 with has crystal-less USB :)
2021-01-17T20:50:06 < mouseghost> im on stm32f103
2021-01-17T20:51:06 < catphish> well that's going to be a little different
2021-01-17T20:51:20 < catphish> but hopefully not too different, have you worked out how to clock it correcly?
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2021-01-17T20:51:48 < mouseghost> well, i think so
2021-01-17T20:51:52 < mouseghost> i mean, i do get one interrupt
2021-01-17T20:52:01 < mouseghost> and it does power on
2021-01-17T20:52:06 < catphish> can you paste what you did so far?
2021-01-17T20:52:14 < mouseghost> sure
2021-01-17T20:52:22 < mouseghost> let me just cat it real quick
2021-01-17T20:52:44 < catphish> also, i don't use interrupts in my code
2021-01-17T20:52:53 < catphish> but we can deal with that :)
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2021-01-17T20:54:26 < mouseghost> catphish, https://0x0.st/-iP5.txt
2021-01-17T20:54:33 < mouseghost> and to everyone interested ^
2021-01-17T20:56:17 < catphish> so you're getting an interrupt, is it then calling usb_reset()?
2021-01-17T20:57:52 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-17T20:57:57 < mouseghost> i would have to check tbhg
2021-01-17T20:59:37 < mouseghost> catphish, yes, if the host is connected already i think
2021-01-17T21:04:19 < catphish> just eating, will have a read in a sec
2021-01-17T21:04:40 < mouseghost> have a good one
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2021-01-17T21:10:08 < catphish> so, your reset code, do you configure EP0? your code is not entirely self explanatory
2021-01-17T21:11:45 < mouseghost> catphish, usb_reset sets DADDR Enable Function, sets ADDR0_RX, ADDR0_TX and COUNT0_RX, then it tries to set EP0, but as im looking now at the debugger, it doesnt quite does what i thought it did
2021-01-17T21:16:19 < catphish> i don't know if it matters, but the order you set things up is somewhat different to mine
2021-01-17T21:16:38 < catphish> i set up EP0, then set USB->BTABLE = 0, and only then USB->DADDR = USB_DADDR_EF;
2021-01-17T21:16:59 < mouseghost> allright, ive catched SETUP packet
2021-01-17T21:17:43 < mouseghost> well, ref here doesnt say anything "UWU YOU MUST FOLLOW THIS UWU"
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2021-01-17T21:29:12 < catphish> i'm taking a while trying to compare your magic constants to my code :)
2021-01-17T21:29:24 < catphish> most notably: 0b100111 << 10;
2021-01-17T21:29:26 < mouseghost> dw, i already have got SETUP breakpoint ;p
2021-01-17T21:29:28 < mouseghost> oh that
2021-01-17T21:29:51 < mouseghost> catphish, it sets the size of receiving buffer
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2021-01-17T21:30:28 < catphish> it should also set he type to be control i believe
2021-01-17T21:30:28 < mouseghost> cos it looks like this: BLSIZE NUM_BLOCK[4:0] COUNTn_RX[9:0]
2021-01-17T21:31:02 < catphish> oh, no, that goes elsewhere
2021-01-17T21:31:52 < catphish> hmm, why do you set USB->EPR[0] = 0x3;
2021-01-17T21:32:16 < catphish> shouldn't that be the endpoint number (ie 0)
2021-01-17T21:32:53 < mouseghost> catphish, yeah i broke that ;p and its reeemoved
2021-01-17T21:34:11 < catphish> so, you need to make sure you set the endpoint number there (0), the type (1)
2021-01-17T21:34:18 < catphish> and i think maybe that's all
2021-01-17T21:34:50 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-17T21:34:51 < mouseghost> thanks
2021-01-17T21:35:06 < catphish> after that, you should get another interrupt with data for EP0
2021-01-17T21:36:25 < catphish> (assuming there's a PC connected)
2021-01-17T21:38:25 < catphish> i remember now why this took me weeks :)
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2021-01-17T21:46:49 < mouseghost> D:
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2021-01-17T22:06:23 < mouseghost> either im accessing something in a bad manner or i dunno...
2021-01-17T22:06:34 < mouseghost> my ADDR0_RX length is 0
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2021-01-17T22:29:25 < mouseghost> allright, im not messing with it anymore i guess
2021-01-17T22:29:28 < mouseghost> git clone blablabla :C
2021-01-17T22:35:28 < catphish> lol
2021-01-17T22:35:52 < catphish> sorry i don't have any quick answers :(
2021-01-17T22:41:44 < mouseghost> catphish, its not your phault lol
2021-01-17T22:41:48 < Steffanx> Time to go libopencm3 mouseghost ?
2021-01-17T22:42:00 < mouseghost> i was thinking libusb_stm32
2021-01-17T22:42:59 < Steffanx> Libopencm3 is more than usb
2021-01-17T22:43:17 < Steffanx> And they have an irc channel 😛
2021-01-17T22:43:31 < mouseghost> Steffanx, but it has a less permissive license
2021-01-17T22:43:40 < Steffanx> Maybe.
2021-01-17T22:44:03 < mouseghost> i mean, not like it matters...
2021-01-17T22:46:48 < Steffanx> Embrace open sores 
2021-01-17T23:08:11 < mouseghost> ;-; i still have to program this opensores aaa
2021-01-17T23:21:56 < mawk> nooo
2021-01-17T23:21:59 < mawk> don't say opensores
2021-01-17T23:22:02 < mawk> it's open source mouseghost 
2021-01-17T23:22:04 < mawk> be thankful fo rit
2021-01-17T23:22:14 < mouseghost> sowwy :(
2021-01-17T23:24:30 < karlp> oh hey, steffanx/mawk, your completely made up fraud claims against foreigners made the papers here, you can feel proud now :)
2021-01-17T23:25:15 < Steffanx> The frenchman told me its nothing, karll
2021-01-17T23:25:19 < Steffanx> Karlp*
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2021-01-17T23:26:05 < mawk> yes
2021-01-17T23:26:40 < Steffanx> Ruining people's life, driving them to a divorce, suicide and what not, is normal.
2021-01-17T23:27:44 < mouseghost> it doesnt work :(
2021-01-17T23:28:20 < Steffanx> Time to sleep mouseghost 
2021-01-17T23:28:26 < mouseghost> n-no
2021-01-17T23:28:44 < Steffanx> No class tomorrow?
2021-01-17T23:29:11 < Steffanx> No homework?
2021-01-17T23:29:43 < mawk> that's collateral damage Steffanx 
2021-01-17T23:31:10 < Steffanx> I guess it made the news because the government resigned over the scandal, karlp?
2021-01-17T23:33:30 < karlp> well, it was actually a _verrrry_ small piece in the newspaper, but yeah, probably that was what made it enough
2021-01-17T23:34:25 < Steffanx> Hah
2021-01-17T23:40:01 < qyx> what did lowlanders do?
2021-01-17T23:40:11 < qyx> I have read something about new elections
2021-01-17T23:40:35 < mawk> nothing very interesting qyx 
2021-01-17T23:40:45 < mawk> trying to squeeze money out of lower class 
2021-01-17T23:40:58 < mawk> nothing very new
2021-01-17T23:41:30 < mawk> but Steffanx thinks it's a huge scandal
2021-01-17T23:41:43 < mouseghost> oh right there is indeed school tomorrow :(
2021-01-17T23:41:52 < mawk> baby mouseghost 
2021-01-17T23:42:02 < mouseghost> ye
2021-01-17T23:42:12 < Steffanx> qyx: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/15/dutch-government-resigns-over-child-benefits-scandal
2021-01-17T23:42:29 < Steffanx> Probably tldr; ;)
2021-01-17T23:43:19 < Steffanx> Just fuck off mawk. Its not even close to funny
2021-01-17T23:43:33 < mawk> it's not a joke
2021-01-17T23:44:35 < qyx> Steffanx: oh
2021-01-17T23:59:19 < mouseghost> wtf did i just kill my usb port
--- Day changed Mon Jan 18 2021
2021-01-18T00:00:28 < Steffanx>  No you didn't 
2021-01-18T00:01:07 < mouseghost> correct
2021-01-18T00:04:46 < mouseghost> but even the lib doesnt work
2021-01-18T00:04:47 < mouseghost> ehhh
2021-01-18T00:06:54 < mouseghost> this is tiring
2021-01-18T00:10:39 < mouseghost> idk maybe im doing something wrong
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2021-01-18T00:32:53 < mouseghost> :<
2021-01-18T00:48:53 < mouseghost> ;_;
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2021-01-18T01:11:25 < fenugrec> TIL we have gone full circle : GPU-accelerated terminal emulators are a thing. And terminal benchmarks.
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2021-01-18T01:23:39 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-18T01:23:50 < mouseghost> how to compile startup_stm32f103...s 
2021-01-18T01:23:58 < mouseghost> it complains about the lack of _init_libc something
2021-01-18T01:24:25 < mouseghost> or lack of crt0.o
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2021-01-18T01:30:46 < englishman> how do you compile assembly
2021-01-18T01:30:46 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/pbIUjd8WFKA
2021-01-18T01:31:43 < Laurenceb> my sides
2021-01-18T01:31:57 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-01-18T01:32:05 < Laurenceb> he has been b& from the USA
2021-01-18T01:32:17 < Laurenceb> for scamming ppl lmao
2021-01-18T01:46:45 < mawk> with the proper gcc command mouseghost 
2021-01-18T01:46:48 < mawk> how do you link?
2021-01-18T01:47:00 < mouseghost> i just commented that shit out and it worked so nvm
2021-01-18T01:47:05 < mawk> anyway you're using ada right? you're not using libc
2021-01-18T01:47:07 < mawk> well
2021-01-18T01:47:11 < mouseghost> nah im on c now
2021-01-18T01:47:13 < mawk> you need that file, kinda
2021-01-18T01:47:20 < mawk> well don't comment it out then lol
2021-01-18T01:47:25 < mawk> it's doing useful things
2021-01-18T01:47:34 < mawk> depending on what you did yourself or not
2021-01-18T01:47:54 < mawk> generate a project using stm32cubemx and look at the generated makefile and .s files
2021-01-18T01:47:57 < mouseghost> mawk, im linking like that https://0x0.st/-iq4.ninja
2021-01-18T01:47:59 < mawk> you will see
2021-01-18T01:48:02 < mouseghost> ah allright
2021-01-18T01:48:23 < mawk> add -lc or some shit
2021-01-18T01:48:25 < mawk> at the end
2021-01-18T01:48:31 < mawk> -lc_nano
2021-01-18T01:48:38 < mawk> but look at the cubemx output you will see
2021-01-18T01:48:49 < mawk> at the end of the link command I mean
2021-01-18T01:49:05 < mouseghost> aight..
2021-01-18T01:49:42 < mouseghost> morrow then .w.
2021-01-18T01:49:46 < mouseghost> goodnightttt
2021-01-18T01:49:49 < mouseghost> cats
2021-01-18T01:49:57 < mawk> -Wl,--specs=newlib-nano.specs something like this
2021-01-18T01:50:06 < mawk> then -lc at the end
2021-01-18T01:50:15 < mawk> that's what almighty cube does
2021-01-18T01:51:15 < mouseghost> hmm
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2021-01-18T01:51:26 < kakium69> evenings
2021-01-18T01:51:27 < mouseghost> ill try...
2021-01-18T01:51:31 < mouseghost> goodnight for now though
2021-01-18T01:51:33 < mouseghost> sweet dreams
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2021-01-18T11:51:07 < karlp> blind leading the blind
2021-01-18T11:51:33 < karlp> mawk: lack of crt shit is from lack of -nosys or freestanding.
2021-01-18T11:52:09 < mawk> that's what I told him to add
2021-01-18T11:53:35 < mawk> to copy the libs and specs stuff from the generated makefile
2021-01-18T11:55:24 < karlp> you told them to add -lc....
2021-01-18T11:56:52 < mawk> yeah I didn't remember the rest
2021-01-18T11:57:12 < mawk> but I knew it was all listed in the generated makefile
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2021-01-18T14:50:38 < mouseghost> regarding USB CBC ACM, does anyone have a list of what makes window's usbser.sys driver say "FOK OFF"? or is there a way to debug what is it without using usb pass-through?
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2021-01-18T15:26:57 < mouseghost> ok
2021-01-18T15:27:03 < mouseghost> copied some code around got it working
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2021-01-18T15:41:42 < jpa-> mouseghost: iirc microsoft has quite good docs on it
2021-01-18T15:41:52 < mouseghost> well idk maybe its in usb spec
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2021-01-18T21:37:41 < Steffanx> hm
2021-01-18T21:38:23 < qyx> quiet, isn't it?
2021-01-18T21:48:06 < zyp> make some noise
2021-01-18T21:48:15 < mawk> I'm making a preempt-rt kernel for the pi
2021-01-18T21:48:28 < mawk> because this thing cannot handle 500µs delay without doing a 9999999999999999999µs delay 5% of the time
2021-01-18T21:49:20 < zyp> doing what?
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2021-01-18T21:50:06 < mawk> just sleeping
2021-01-18T21:50:09 < mawk> usleep(500);
2021-01-18T21:50:15 < mawk> 95% of the time that sleeps for ~600µs
2021-01-18T21:50:22 < mawk> but sometimes it makes a crazy delay 
2021-01-18T21:50:59 < zyp> why does it matter if it's only sleeping anyway?
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2021-01-18T21:55:50 < Steffanx> What are you doing anyway mawk ? What has to sleep for 500us?
2021-01-18T21:57:06 < mawk> because I want to toggle a gpio before and after the sleep
2021-01-18T21:57:09 < mawk> bit banging stuff
2021-01-18T21:57:15 < Steffanx> like i thought :P
2021-01-18T21:57:17 < mawk> I'm faking an IR remote data
2021-01-18T21:57:22 < mawk> and it's 500µs pulse size
2021-01-18T21:57:36 < mawk> if preempt-rt doesn't solve my delay I'll try DMA
2021-01-18T21:57:43 < mawk> and if DMA is too complicated I'll throw the pi in the bin and use a stm32
2021-01-18T21:57:55 < Steffanx> lolyou
2021-01-18T21:58:11 < Steffanx> i wouldnt even think about using a rpi to begin with
2021-01-18T21:58:26 < Steffanx> cant you add an fpga "cape" and use that?
2021-01-18T21:58:33 < qyx> or abusing uart?
2021-01-18T21:58:42 < qyx> *abuse
2021-01-18T21:59:10 < Steffanx> or spi?
2021-01-18T21:59:29 < qyx> uart is presicely timable at least
2021-01-18T21:59:53 < mawk> it's like 64 bits words, even more, I'm not sure uart would do
2021-01-18T21:59:54 < qyx> if you transfer 0xff, thats 9 bits
2021-01-18T21:59:55 < mawk> maybe spi 
2021-01-18T22:00:05 < mawk> ah yes you mean by keeping the fifo full
2021-01-18T22:00:13 < qyx> those 9 bits should take 500 us
2021-01-18T22:00:28 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-18T22:00:29 < qyx> thats 18 kbaud
2021-01-18T22:00:38 < qyx> 19200 could work
2021-01-18T22:00:38 < mawk> why wouldn't you use a rpi Steffanx ? there are a lot of ways to make precise timing on it
2021-01-18T22:00:58 < mawk> having a preempt rt kernel, having a xenomai kernel, or using one of the 2 accessory cores it has besides the cortex A
2021-01-18T22:01:25 < zyp> what pi is it? can't you dedicate a cortex-a core to your bitbanging?
2021-01-18T22:01:32 < mawk> pi 4
2021-01-18T22:01:38 < mawk> well I could, but then it would be less useful as mediacenter
2021-01-18T22:01:45 < mawk> I want to be able to play video and stuff
2021-01-18T22:01:55 < mawk> it's already struggling with all its cores, I won't remove one
2021-01-18T22:02:13 < mawk> I guess for video if it's hw offloaded it doesn't make a difference; but the browser is still laggy besides that
2021-01-18T22:02:21 < zyp> oh, better switch to stm32 then, I hear it's great for playing video
2021-01-18T22:02:25 < Steffanx> so what is it remote controlling?
2021-01-18T22:02:28 < qyx> :>
2021-01-18T22:02:35 < qyx> no cec?
2021-01-18T22:02:42 < Steffanx> ^ 
2021-01-18T22:02:54 < mawk> lol no cec no
2021-01-18T22:02:59 < qyx> why no cec
2021-01-18T22:03:05 < mawk> it's a soundsystem thing whose only way to control is through an IR remote
2021-01-18T22:03:12 < mawk> not even buttons on the facade, just the remote
2021-01-18T22:03:22 < qyx> does it have hdmi?
2021-01-18T22:03:25 < mawk> so I tapped into the remote receiver diode, put a transistor and connected it to the pi
2021-01-18T22:03:33 < mawk> no, it's connected with spdif now
2021-01-18T22:03:38 < mawk> the optic fiber thing
2021-01-18T22:03:46 < mawk> otherwise it's rca plugs or jack
2021-01-18T22:04:14 < qyx> yes spdif is is a common knowledge
2021-01-18T22:07:30 < Steffanx> i would just google or make a usb based transmitter.
2021-01-18T22:08:02 < Steffanx> Get laks and be you'd be done by now :P
2021-01-18T22:08:12 < zyp> :p
2021-01-18T22:09:33 < qyx> a ftdi might do that
2021-01-18T22:09:49 < qyx> switched to a bitbang mode
2021-01-18T22:10:53 < Steffanx> mawk: if you have great fun doing it this way, i wont stop you ;)
2021-01-18T22:11:05 < mawk> it's not really IR Steffanx 
2021-01-18T22:11:16 < mawk> I tapped the ir receiver diode, I'm not outputting real ir
2021-01-18T22:11:27 < qyx> why
2021-01-18T22:11:28 < Steffanx> what is fake IR?
2021-01-18T22:11:48 < mawk> fake ir is 500µs pulse ir, real ir is 40kHz bursts or something
2021-01-18T22:12:00 < mawk> the receiver diode is filtering the 40kHz
2021-01-18T22:12:10 < mawk> so I need to feed something filtered as well
2021-01-18T22:12:25 < mawk> lol usb based transmitter
2021-01-18T22:12:34 < mawk> why would that be easier than toggling a few pins from a c program
2021-01-18T22:12:51 < mawk> just let me enable my magnificent preempt-rt patched kernel and you will witness the power
2021-01-18T22:12:58 < zyp> ok
2021-01-18T22:13:04 < Steffanx> > compiling preempt-rt kernel.
2021-01-18T22:13:09 < mawk> takes no time
2021-01-18T22:13:18 < mawk> take a coffee in the meantime
2021-01-18T22:13:23 < mawk> or a big rail
2021-01-18T22:13:33 < qyx> compiling kernel in 2021 uh.
2021-01-18T22:13:35 < Steffanx> sniff some?
2021-01-18T22:13:42 < mawk> that's what all cool kids do, qyx 
2021-01-18T22:13:44 < mawk> you're not in
2021-01-18T22:14:37 < Steffanx> ebay.co.uk - THANKS BREXIT: https://imgur.com/a/eOiwQsK 
2021-01-18T22:14:43 < mawk> anyway there are pre-packaged preempt-rt kernels, you don't have to compile it
2021-01-18T22:14:46 < mawk> but I wanted to feel the nostalgia
2021-01-18T22:15:18 < mawk> and it's mega easy anyway, just get sources, apply the patch, in the .config you enable fully preemptible kernel, that's it
2021-01-18T22:16:36 < mawk> anyway I use the pi as mediacenter, it makes no sense to use something else when the pi has gpio ports and will be the primary user of that faked remote control thing
2021-01-18T22:17:12 < Steffanx> ok
2021-01-18T22:17:53 < mawk> usb based transmitter
2021-01-18T22:17:58 < mawk> your brain is infected with corona
2021-01-18T22:18:09 < mawk> you need to cleanse it with dutch beer
2021-01-18T22:19:10 < zyp> pff, you know Steffanx are right
2021-01-18T22:19:42 < mawk> why use usb even
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2021-01-18T22:19:53 < mawk> there's uart or spi or i2c on the pi
2021-01-18T22:20:23 < mawk> only two different values need to be transmitted, and only from master to slave
2021-01-18T22:21:42 < Steffanx> ok then use spi/uart :)
2021-01-18T22:22:00 < Steffanx> or usart for the fun of it
2021-01-18T22:23:34 < mawk> maybe, if the pi cannot do it
2021-01-18T22:23:40 < mawk> but if it can there's no reason to use something else
2021-01-18T22:23:47 < mawk> pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -r
2021-01-18T22:23:49 < mawk> 5.4.84-rt47-v7l
2021-01-18T22:23:52 < mawk> my rt kernel is running now
2021-01-18T22:24:02 < mawk> congratulate me on my kernel compilation skills please
2021-01-18T22:24:30 < Steffanx> such french arrogance
2021-01-18T22:25:27 < mawk> :(
2021-01-18T22:25:38 < mawk> you mean, art de vivre?
2021-01-18T22:25:40 < mawk> I agree
2021-01-18T22:25:57 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas français
2021-01-18T22:35:10 < Steffanx> are you read for the curfew yet, mawk ?
2021-01-18T22:35:15 < mawk> no
2021-01-18T22:35:18 < mawk> when is it?
2021-01-18T22:35:42 < Steffanx> unknown
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2021-01-18T22:38:56 < catphish> i'm waiting to hear if i'm going to be offered a job! i'm way too impatient for this
2021-01-18T22:41:47 < Steffanx> what kind of job mr catphish ?
2021-01-18T22:42:27 < catphish> software / network engineer / manager at a FTTH ISP
2021-01-18T22:43:08 < catphish> i couldn't cope any more working from home as a software engineer, so wanted something more hands on and varied
2021-01-18T22:43:19 < mawk> do you like being a manager?
2021-01-18T22:43:35 < catphish> i don't mind
2021-01-18T22:44:59 < catphish> i like being a manager if i know enough about the subject to be supportive of my under-engineers and contribute, but not have to do all the work myself
2021-01-18T22:45:27 < mawk> the preempt-rt patch works perfectly
2021-01-18T22:45:31 < mawk> no more crazy delays
2021-01-18T22:45:36 < catphish> not so much being a clueless manager over people working on things i don't understand, nor being an engineer working on my own, so hopefully this will suit perfectly
2021-01-18T22:45:57 < catphish> (if i get the job)
2021-01-18T22:49:22 < leibniz[m]> em
2021-01-18T22:49:30 < leibniz[m]> Is it usually called Tx/Rx or Rx/Tx ? 😁
2021-01-18T22:49:46 < mawk> tx/rx
2021-01-18T22:51:05 < Steffanx> rx/tx
2021-01-18T22:51:09 < zyp> catphish, I got offered a job last week
2021-01-18T22:51:48 < catphish> zyp: 1) what job 2) did you take it?
2021-01-18T22:52:21 < zyp> company I've been contracting for since october wanted to hire me
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2021-01-18T22:52:57 < zyp> offering a salary 25% higher than what I got in my old job, that I'm still covid-furloughed from
2021-01-18T22:53:17 < catphish> ideal
2021-01-18T22:53:21 < zyp> that's too good to turn down, so I handed in the resignation to my old job today
2021-01-18T22:54:03 < catphish> maybe your furlough system is different from ours, in the UK it weirdly doesn't prevent you taking other jobs so you could have got paid twice to do the same job lol
2021-01-18T22:54:25 < catphish> but maybe  little bit unethical
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2021-01-18T22:55:31 < zyp> how so?
2021-01-18T22:56:48 < zyp> when I'm furloughed, I'm entitled to unemployment benefits, and to get those benefits I need to fill in a report card every other week stating whether I've been working/sick/on vacation/etc
2021-01-18T22:59:26 < Steffanx> the one you did that display/camera thing for zyp ?
2021-01-18T22:59:41 < zyp> the FLIR, yes
2021-01-18T23:00:28 < zyp> not really any display involved in that, devkit just got one which is convenient for testing :p
2021-01-18T23:00:36 < Steffanx> ah
2021-01-18T23:01:52 < zyp> I delivered some code for a customer demo for that project last week, and the offer came right after, so I guess the demo went well :p
2021-01-18T23:02:58 < Steffanx> heh. I hope you are better at non-demo stuff as well. I know this guy that is great at doing demos, but sucks at turning it into a real product.
2021-01-18T23:05:29 < zyp> it's currently a all-in-one python script that does http, opencv and some other tcp comms :p
2021-01-18T23:06:05 < Steffanx> hah great
2021-01-18T23:07:03 < zyp> was originally planning those features as separate processes, and then people wanted to be able to grab frames from the live stream over http for testing
2021-01-18T23:07:36 < catphish> zyp: the way the UK furlough system works is this: if you already have a job, but your employer opts to temporarily stop your hours because of COVID-19, they can claim 80% of your salary from the government, and continue to pay it to you, the conditions are they you *don't* work for the company claiming it, but you can wok for someone else
2021-01-18T23:07:40 < zyp> and passing a live frame between processes sounded a bit annoying, so I just stuffed the opencv loop in a separate thread in the same process
2021-01-18T23:08:04 < zyp> catphish, ah
2021-01-18T23:08:08 < karlp> catphish: huh, that's totally inverse of here
2021-01-18T23:08:11 < catphish> the idea of this system is to allow people to keep their current jobs, and hopefully go back to them after it's over
2021-01-18T23:08:33 < karlp> if my work cuts my hours, I get those hours paid direct as unemployment, with no waithing
2021-01-18T23:08:38 < catphish> the idea that you're allowed to work elsewhere is a little silly really, but that's what they decided
2021-01-18T23:08:45 < zyp> the money doesn't pass through the employer here, I have to apply for it myself, same was as if I were laid off
2021-01-18T23:08:46 < karlp> government isn't just paying my employer
2021-01-18T23:09:06 < karlp> yeah, we just cut the waiting period for getting unemployment, and relaxed the job search stuff
2021-01-18T23:09:55 < zyp> on the other hand, paternity leave here works a bit like catphish's system
2021-01-18T23:10:20 < zyp> I still have 40 weeks of paternity leave that I haven't made use of yet
2021-01-18T23:10:36 < zyp> was meaning to do that last year, but then I got furloughed instead
2021-01-18T23:10:43 < Steffanx> time for more kids zyp ?
2021-01-18T23:11:12 < zyp> nah, as long as I take this leave before kid is 3, it's fine
2021-01-18T23:12:04 < zyp> so I'm totally planning to take part time leave later this year, and then go do contract work for old employer to collect double payment :p
2021-01-18T23:12:26 < zyp> was originally planning to do that the other way around
2021-01-18T23:12:47 < zyp> just swapped who is contract client and who is employer :p
2021-01-18T23:15:08 < zyp> a bit more ontopic: I think I sorted out how to do interrupt naming
2021-01-18T23:15:18 < Steffanx> i recall here its a whopping 6 weeks since last year. it used to be a lot less.
2021-01-18T23:15:35 < BrainDamage> you name them after your kids?
2021-01-18T23:16:03 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-18T23:16:19 < zyp> I've renamed IRQ and Exception to interrupt::irq and interrupt::exception, and updated the code generator shit to support arbitrary shit
2021-01-18T23:16:41 < qyx> BrainDamage: how would he call interrupts >20 then?
2021-01-18T23:16:44 < zyp> so on risc-v I figure I'll also add an interrupt::internal
2021-01-18T23:18:56 < zyp> should make it easier to adapt to other architectures with even weirder interrupt schemes too
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2021-01-18T23:54:07  * qyx shorting shelves by the width of a 10" rack
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 19 2021
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2021-01-19T01:19:14 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-19T01:19:33 < zyp> gd32v documentation is pretty crap for the parts they didn't steal from T
2021-01-19T01:19:34 < zyp> ST
2021-01-19T01:20:06 < zyp> I can't find the base address of the PLIC mentioned anywhere
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2021-01-19T01:30:55 < zyp> I'm just realizing now that I might have misunderstood and that there might not be a PLIC in it, even though the core may be configured with it
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2021-01-19T02:22:14 < fenugrec> Getting some interns to design a thing with CAN comms...  https://ibb.co/T4TF93q Looking forward to seeing their UART code heh
2021-01-19T02:24:50 < zyp> RS485 mode? :)
2021-01-19T02:25:07 < zyp> almost the same, right?
2021-01-19T02:25:28 < fenugrec> aaah that must be it. These kids and their fancy tricks...
2021-01-19T02:26:41 < zyp> I think I concluded now that GD32V got a CLIC but not a PLIC
2021-01-19T02:27:08 < zyp> which means I get to start over on that tomorrow :p
2021-01-19T02:28:29 < zyp> also renode doesn't seem to support that, which is less fun
2021-01-19T02:28:48 < fenugrec> renode, that simulator thingy ? hows that working out
2021-01-19T02:28:59 < zyp> I like it
2021-01-19T02:29:42 < zyp> been simulating a stm32f4 a bit without problems
2021-01-19T02:30:53 < zyp> and then I've been playing around with simulating a gd32v as well, but there's no platform definition for that yet, so I pieced together my own with a cpu and some peripherals
2021-01-19T02:30:55 < fenugrec> that's one thing I miss from ST vs MPLAB + PIC...a proper simulator for quick sanity tests
2021-01-19T02:32:02 < zyp> been working on both getting my interrupt code flexible enough to abstract over the differences between NVIC and other interrupt controllers while also trying to understand the various interrupt controllers used in various risc-v implementations
2021-01-19T02:35:51 < qyx> fenugrec: that might actually work
2021-01-19T02:36:07 < qyx> except that it is not can though
2021-01-19T02:36:37 < fenugrec> yea. Either they're not getting the "CAN != UART" thing, or they forgot that the mcu they chose has 2 CAN channels
2021-01-19T02:36:58 < zyp> I'm guessing the former, based on the naming
2021-01-19T02:36:58 < qyx> I am going to do single-wire over UART with a LIN transceiver
2021-01-19T02:37:08 < zyp> fun
2021-01-19T02:38:11 < zyp> but LIN is UART-based anyway, right?
2021-01-19T02:38:23 < qyx> they will lol at you if they find out by any chance that uart4_tx id just another AF for can_tx :>
2021-01-19T02:38:47 < qyx> zyp: yeah
2021-01-19T02:39:13 < fenugrec> qyx, I checked, it's not. And that wouldn't justify naming the nets UART_TX  P )
2021-01-19T02:39:39 < qyx> but I want single-wire like protocol without exact timing and with a possibility to do arbitration (for discovery)
2021-01-19T02:53:38 < qyx> meh it's 2am, I am not going to order TME at 2am again
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2021-01-19T03:48:12 < mawk> by modelling sleep() bias as an affine function I can correct it to pretty good level
2021-01-19T03:48:35 < mawk> now when I ask for 500µs it sleeps 500±2µs
2021-01-19T03:48:50 < mawk> before the correction it was ±30µs
2021-01-19T03:49:26 < mawk> and before patching the kernel with preempt-rt it was ±150µs, and sometimes taking ±1500µs for no reason
2021-01-19T03:50:02 < mawk> all that on raspberry pi with linux
2021-01-19T03:55:00 < qyx> so much work for so few us
2021-01-19T03:55:40 < englishman> i just tappy tap on the keyboard and money falls out
2021-01-19T03:56:23 < englishman> whats a raspberri pi
2021-01-19T03:56:32 < qyx> do you generate bitcoinz by hand?
2021-01-19T03:57:21 < englishman> is putting a buttcoin miner in useful desktop software then giving it away for free instead of charging for it a good revenue model?
2021-01-19T03:58:24 < qyx> no, I am killing everything eating 100% of my cpu
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2021-01-19T07:20:40 < Laurenceb> To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectua
2021-01-19T07:20:40 < Laurenceb> l capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one 
2021-01-19T07:20:41 < Laurenceb> of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
2021-01-19T07:20:44 < Laurenceb> And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 
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2021-01-19T10:42:32 < mawk> 150µs to 1µs is a lot qyx 
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2021-01-19T10:54:47 < zyp> hmm, looks like ESP32-S2 is using dwc_otg for USB
2021-01-19T10:54:56 < zyp> but apparently -C3 doesn't do USB
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2021-01-19T12:30:15 < Steffanx> Party time. The whole gang is here
2021-01-19T12:33:27 < zyp> ok
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2021-01-19T13:02:49 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-19T13:03:29 < zyp> on the bright side, my interrupt handler code appears to be working, I'm ending up in default_blocking_handler
2021-01-19T13:04:35 < zyp> on the not so bright side, I'm apparently ending up there because of an invalid instruction exception, which I appear to get because the code attempts to execute something in sram
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2021-01-19T13:24:29 < zyp> okay, that was apparently just the debugger not resetting properly after reflashing
2021-01-19T13:24:50 < zyp> shit actually works now
2021-01-19T13:26:55 < qyx> hm, I browsed ti.com for BQ* suitable for usb-c charging & "otg" (supplying 5V back)
2021-01-19T13:27:28 < qyx> apparetnly most of them is not suitable for usb-c (without a dedicated chip)
2021-01-19T13:27:32 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-01-19T13:27:35 < qyx> better to say, I didn't find any
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2021-01-19T13:32:32 < zyp> https://www.ti.com/tool/PMP4496 <- looks like they expect you to have separate sink and source paths
2021-01-19T13:34:30 < qyx> interesting they are solving it this way
2021-01-19T13:34:35 < qyx> because they have things like BQ25790
2021-01-19T13:34:56 < zyp> I guess you want something like https://www.richtek.com/Products/USB%20PD%20IF/USB%20Type-C%20and%20Power%20Delivery/RT7885 except that looks overkill again
2021-01-19T13:35:42 < qyx> thats exactly what I want
2021-01-19T13:35:51 < qyx> and exactly what does most of the chips from TI do
2021-01-19T13:35:56 < qyx> BUT they lack cc lines
2021-01-19T13:45:33 < qyx> apparently it should work but I need a mcu with CC phy or tusb320 or whatever to detect the role and set registers accordingly
2021-01-19T13:47:43 < zyp> you don't need a PD phy, just selectable pullup/pulldowns and sensing
2021-01-19T13:48:07 < zyp> but if you need a mcu anyway, just slap on a stm32g0
2021-01-19T13:49:05 < qyx> hm
2021-01-19T13:50:42 < qyx> yeah should wrok, I'll make a note in my todo list
2021-01-19T13:51:03 < qyx> I'll report back at the end of 2021
2021-01-19T13:51:07 < zyp> :)
2021-01-19T13:51:36 < zyp> maybe when I get tired of fucking around with risc-v I can get started on writing a PD stack
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2021-01-19T15:18:54 < karlp> saw somethin gon HaD recently, wsa a usbphy and mcu, with a "small" PD stack, aiming for making it includable into projects more normally
2021-01-19T15:19:02 < karlp> focussing on the PPS aspects, whicih I think are super cool
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2021-01-19T15:21:53 < zyp> PPS?
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2021-01-19T15:37:42 < karlp> here https://hackaday.io/project/176680-pd-micro-usb-c-pd30-pps-trigger
2021-01-19T15:37:46 < karlp> the programmable power supply bits
2021-01-19T15:37:57 < karlp> where you can do 20mV steps in voltage and similar in current.
2021-01-19T15:38:21 < zyp> ah, yeah
2021-01-19T15:41:17 -!- coldfront [~coldfront@167.172.218.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-01-19T15:44:08 < zyp> I've considered making a castellated module with a usb-c socket, a stm32g0 and supporting hardware
2021-01-19T15:50:05 < qyx> those pps things are supported in TI switchers
2021-01-19T15:50:22 < qyx> they are 4-quadrant and fully configurable over I2C
2021-01-19T15:50:33 < qyx> but but, the logic behind it is not there
2021-01-19T15:51:09 < englishman> I haven't yet seen a power supply that supports that, anyone know of any?
2021-01-19T15:52:33 < englishman> if it was intended for offloading battery charging to the power supply, I don't really see the utility, unless 100% of usbC sources begin to support it
2021-01-19T15:53:02 < zyp> how so?
2021-01-19T15:53:45 < zyp> my phone supports VOOC for offloading charging to the power supply, but it can still charge from other power supplies
2021-01-19T15:54:13 < englishman> yeah, so the feature is redundant?
2021-01-19T15:54:30 < englishman> the point is to offload the hardware, but you have to put the hardware anyway
2021-01-19T15:55:10 < zyp> your statement is like saying «if chademo was intended for offloading battery charging to the power supply, I don't really see the utility, unless 100% of EV charging outlets begin to support it»
2021-01-19T15:56:02 < englishman> so outboard charging is 10x faster?
2021-01-19T15:56:14 < englishman> chademo isn't redundant
2021-01-19T15:56:22 < englishman> it supports another charging mode
2021-01-19T15:57:08 < zyp> for my phone I think the speed difference is like 2x or so
2021-01-19T15:57:14 < englishman> if your car had an onboard 50kW charger and the same plug worked then yeah chademo would be redundant
2021-01-19T15:57:38 < englishman> so the goal isn't to eliminate hardware but to reduce it
2021-01-19T15:57:42 < englishman> that makes more sense
2021-01-19T15:58:17 < karlp> I didn't even really consider it to be designed for offloading battery charging
2021-01-19T15:58:24 < karlp> but perhaps I'm just naiive
2021-01-19T15:58:41 < englishman> I can't really think of another use
2021-01-19T16:04:22 -!- flatmush_ is now known as flatmush
2021-01-19T16:07:09 < karlp> programmably power supply?
2021-01-19T16:07:24 < karlp> it might hvae started as offloading chargers, but when you put it in the spec, you need to make sure it works for anything
2021-01-19T16:07:46 < karlp> there's more to the world than lipo's....
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2021-01-19T16:32:29 < englishman> well they are already programmable in a way.. 5/9/12/15/20V etc
2021-01-19T16:32:47 < englishman> the increased precision of 10mV/50mA could be useful i suppose
2021-01-19T16:38:21 < mawk> are you jealous of 
2021-01-19T16:38:24 < mawk> my rpi times Steffanx ?
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2021-01-19T17:38:08 < Steffanx> I dont know what youre talking about
2021-01-19T17:42:25 < mawk> yes you do
2021-01-19T17:43:01 < mawk> having realtime delays on a raspberry pi running linux
2021-01-19T17:43:03 < mawk> I've done it
2021-01-19T17:44:16 < PaulFertser> mawk: from userspace?
2021-01-19T17:44:27 < mawk> yes
2021-01-19T17:44:33 < mawk> with preempt-rt patch
2021-01-19T17:44:45 < mawk> setting SCHED_FIFO scheduling policy and priority = 98
2021-01-19T17:44:51 < mawk> just below the kernel watchdog,and above all other kernel tasks
2021-01-19T17:45:03 < PaulFertser> Cool!
2021-01-19T17:45:18 < mawk> well at least by realtime I mean maximum 10µs jitter
2021-01-19T17:45:24 < qyx> your drivers must be happy
2021-01-19T17:45:35 < mawk> they don't have a right to complain
2021-01-19T17:45:38 < mawk> no unions allowed here
2021-01-19T17:45:50 < mawk> anyway my task mostly sleeps
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2021-01-19T17:46:30 < mawk> most of the time it's 1µs, and sometimes 10µs; without the patch it was like never below 150µs bias/delay
2021-01-19T17:46:46 < mawk> with the patch it's 30µs, and by calibrating the delays at the application start that's how I get the 1µs
2021-01-19T17:47:14 < mawk> https://paste.serveur.io/bv2OLTP7.c
2021-01-19T17:47:38 -!- hornang [~quassel@185.56.185.179] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-19T17:47:49 < mawk> for even precise delay I can do a busyloop using gettimeofday() which doesn't make a syscall, uses the vDSO instead; but i don't need more precision
2021-01-19T18:03:44 < englishman> templeOS could do it better
2021-01-19T18:04:44 < mawk> nonsense
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2021-01-19T19:08:42 < Steffanx> Im happy for you mawk
2021-01-19T19:11:05 < mawk> good
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2021-01-19T19:41:42  * skz81 feels an air of irony here
2021-01-19T19:43:34 < effractur> mawk: i mean you can always just use RDTSCP
2021-01-19T19:43:39 < effractur> if you want really precice timing
2021-01-19T19:44:43 < karlp> mawk: your fit coeffs, where didyou pull that from?
2021-01-19T19:45:00 < karlp> you're trying to prpose a constant model for the system jitter in respone to you?
2021-01-19T19:46:36 < karlp> effractur: isnt that x86 asm?
2021-01-19T19:46:42 < karlp> certainly won't o any good on rpi
2021-01-19T19:46:52 < effractur> karlp: mm fair enough
2021-01-19T19:47:00 < effractur> did not scroll bcak far enough to check the platform :P
2021-01-19T19:48:11 < mawk> it's arm effractur 
2021-01-19T19:48:26 < mawk> I recalibrate before every run karlp 
2021-01-19T19:48:50 < mawk> the fit coeffs is the least squares approximation coefficients for the given x values
2021-01-19T19:48:56 < mawk> 300µs, 400µs, 500µs, 600µs, 700µs
2021-01-19T19:49:21 < effractur> in arm there is no usersspace instruction for this
2021-01-19T19:52:06 < mawk> karlp: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210119185201481.png
2021-01-19T19:52:10 < mawk> here's how I computed it
2021-01-19T19:52:24 < mawk> it's the coefficients of the inverse matrix you see here
2021-01-19T19:52:37 < mawk> they are fixed when the x values to sample at are fixed, and it's the case here, I fixed at 300..700 µs
2021-01-19T19:56:43 < mawk> so it's not a constant model, or it's constant for the next schedule run if you wish
2021-01-19T19:56:47 < mawk> but that works pretty well
2021-01-19T19:57:11 < mawk> but at every new loop I correct the bias again
2021-01-19T19:57:29 < mawk> and when I measure the error I make it's pretty small, and I tried higher order models like quadratic error and the affine model is better
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2021-01-19T20:55:07 < mawk> yay it works
2021-01-19T20:55:09 < mawk> I can control volume
2021-01-19T20:55:15 < mawk> now I just have to bind the keys to my keyboard
2021-01-19T20:55:28 < mawk> ./remote $gpio $action
2021-01-19T20:55:42 < mawk> and have to solder a pulldown that I forgot
2021-01-19T20:58:28 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-19T20:59:08 < mawk> code is mega easy https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210119195903636.png
2021-01-19T21:16:47 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@2601:84:c702:6650:6cf2:9c36:fe90:2047] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-19T21:17:49 < Steffanx> i think mawk  like macros a lot
2021-01-19T21:18:37 < Steffanx> Likes.
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2021-01-19T21:51:51 < mawk> you don't?
2021-01-19T21:52:22 < mawk> aandrew loves them too
2021-01-19T21:52:42 < Steffanx> especially when its inline assembly
2021-01-19T21:53:10 < Steffanx> btw mawk .. do you have a female alter-ego?
2021-01-19T21:53:17 < Steffanx> Called leeloominai?
2021-01-19T21:53:59 < mawk> who's that?
2021-01-19T21:54:09 < mawk> l'illuminée?
2021-01-19T21:54:19 < Steffanx> A female person that happened to be in ##stm32 and also liked to post code in screenshots... A LOT
2021-01-19T21:54:25 < mawk> where is that
2021-01-19T21:54:49 < Steffanx> and then she got bullied away by dicks.
2021-01-19T21:55:49 < qyx> lol
2021-01-19T21:56:29 < mawk> poor girl
2021-01-19T21:56:44 < qyx> isnt there another one
2021-01-19T21:56:53 < qyx> miju or what
2021-01-19T21:56:57 < mawk> my gf was on irc
2021-01-19T21:57:02 < qyx> and there was jan too
2021-01-19T21:57:03 < mawk> but she would've been banned in a few days
2021-01-19T21:57:08 < mawk> she's female cracki
2021-01-19T21:57:12 < mawk> or worse
2021-01-19T22:04:12 < bitmask> herro
2021-01-19T22:07:13 -!- catphish1 [~user@185.102.133.45] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-19T22:07:43 < mawk> hi
2021-01-19T22:08:13 < Steffanx> *ex-gf mawk ?
2021-01-19T22:08:21 < bitmask> what you guys up to
2021-01-19T22:08:30 < bitmask> i just had a nice propofol nap
2021-01-19T22:08:43 < Steffanx> happy catphish1 or unhappy catphish1 ?
2021-01-19T22:09:03 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-01-19T22:09:09 < mawk> "gf was" past tense
2021-01-19T22:09:19 < mawk> now I've got russian goods
2021-01-19T22:09:27 < mawk> much better
2021-01-19T22:09:29 < mawk> less whining
2021-01-19T22:09:35 < Steffanx> ukranian?
2021-01-19T22:09:39 < mawk> same thing
2021-01-19T22:09:46 < mawk> her family is from russia anyway
2021-01-19T22:09:53 < Steffanx> Read korzybski
2021-01-19T22:09:53 -!- mouseghost [~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined ##stm32
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2021-01-19T22:09:57 < mawk> her parents were assigned to east ukrain by ussr administration
2021-01-19T22:10:00 < mawk> already did
2021-01-19T22:10:06 < bitmask> where is mawk from
2021-01-19T22:10:12 < mawk> france and netherlands
2021-01-19T22:10:19 < bitmask> ahh
2021-01-19T22:10:22 < Steffanx> no you're born in france.
2021-01-19T22:10:32 < mawk> I'm born from a french person and a dutch person
2021-01-19T22:10:39 < mawk> born in paris, then moved in NL as soon as I was born
2021-01-19T22:10:51 < mawk> then got back to paris some time after when my mother found Diemen too ugly
2021-01-19T22:10:54 < bitmask> dual citizenship?
2021-01-19T22:10:59 < catphish1> Steffanx: happy enough i guess :)
2021-01-19T22:11:03 < mawk> trual citizenship bitmask 
2021-01-19T22:11:06 < mawk> with luxembourg as well
2021-01-19T22:11:10 < Steffanx> job or no job, catphish1 ?
2021-01-19T22:11:10 < bitmask> jeebus
2021-01-19T22:11:18 < catphish1> 1 sec
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2021-01-19T22:11:38 < mawk> want to marry me bitmask ?
2021-01-19T22:11:50 -!- catphish_ [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-19T22:11:56 < catphish_> Steffanx: no idea yet
2021-01-19T22:12:04 < bitmask> sure, then you can add trumpland to your list
2021-01-19T22:12:06 < catphish_> Steffanx: waiting to hear back, no ETA
2021-01-19T22:12:07 < Steffanx> Will you two celebrate the first night with propofol, mawk & bitmask ?
2021-01-19T22:12:16 < mawk> :(
2021-01-19T22:12:46 < bitmask> i just had a colonoscopy, fun...
2021-01-19T22:13:06 < bitmask> procedure is fine, you are knocked out, the prep is horrible though
2021-01-19T22:13:39 < mawk> what's the prep like?
2021-01-19T22:13:45 < mawk> did it question your heterosexuality?
2021-01-19T22:13:50 < catphish_> how embarassing when your country is so unstable you need the army to swear in your president
2021-01-19T22:14:29 < bitmask> the night before at 7pm you drink mega laxative, poop liquid for a few hours, wake up and do the same at least 6 hours before procedure
2021-01-19T22:14:37 < Steffanx> fun
2021-01-19T22:14:45 < Steffanx> im glad you want to share this with us
2021-01-19T22:14:55 < bitmask> how could I deny you the pleasure of knowing
2021-01-19T22:15:54 < mawk> lol
2021-01-19T22:16:55 < bitmask> some medication is only 8oz each (night/morning) but my insurance didnt cover it and so I got this horrible 4 liter crap (2 liters night/morning)
2021-01-19T22:17:08 < bitmask> it was horrible to drink
2021-01-19T22:17:42 < bitmask> you drink 240ml every 10 minutes for 80 minutes
2021-01-19T22:17:47 < Steffanx> damn
2021-01-19T22:17:52 < Steffanx> i wouldnt be able to do that
2021-01-19T22:18:23 < bitmask> it was rough, i actually didnt make it all the way through, last night I did 5 of the 8 240ml, and the morning I got 7 
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2021-01-19T22:20:10 < bitmask> ohh my pressure chamber is out for delivery
2021-01-19T22:24:55 < catphish_> what does one do with a pressure chamber?
2021-01-19T22:25:17 < bitmask> degass silicone and epoxy
2021-01-19T22:25:30 < bitmask> vacuum chamber i meant
2021-01-19T22:25:35 < effractur> bitmask: and it porbaly tasted also horrible?
2021-01-19T22:25:40 < catphish_> ah ok, makes sense
2021-01-19T22:25:46 < bitmask> effractur yea it was aweful
2021-01-19T22:26:13 < effractur> :/
2021-01-19T22:26:18 < mouseghost> :<<<
2021-01-19T22:45:59 < Steffanx> so is mr bitmask alright?
2021-01-19T22:47:37 < bitmask> nothing serious, my previous doctor said it was crohns but my new doctor that i like better doesnt think it is
2021-01-19T22:48:53 < bitmask> i had inflammation and an ulcer in my large intestine, ulcer is gone, only slight inflammation now, still gotta run more tests to see what it could be
2021-01-19T22:52:33 < Steffanx> hm
2021-01-19T22:58:37 < bitmask> oh shit, the hemera is finally in stock after like 6 months
2021-01-19T22:59:42 < Steffanx> whatever hemera is
2021-01-19T23:00:20 < bitmask> e3d's new extruder
2021-01-19T23:00:54 < bitmask> i like my extruder aside from needing a powerful fan to keep it cool
2021-01-19T23:01:21 < bitmask> doubt ill change it
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--- Day changed Wed Jan 20 2021
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2021-01-20T01:05:22 < Hermitude> when you pull NRST low on an stm32 chip, does the JTAG circuitry also reset (ie: does trst also get pulled low)
2021-01-20T01:05:32 < Hermitude> device family f407 if it matters
2021-01-20T01:08:06 < zyp> no
2021-01-20T01:08:32 < Hermitude> thank you
2021-01-20T01:09:06 < zyp> it's a feature -- if the device is going to sleep or remapping the debug pins or whatever, you can hold it in reset to attach the debugger
2021-01-20T01:10:13 < Hermitude> yes connect on reset
2021-01-20T01:17:06 < Hermitude> btw i followed your advice some time ago to deassert D+ to force usb enumeration -- i just do it by mapping it as a GPIO briefly and it works wonderfully ty again
2021-01-20T01:18:36 < Hermitude> doing so also avoids a nasty cdc_acm driver bug that was causing problems -- my system would lock after a few debug runs
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2021-01-20T01:52:50  * catphish_ is now officially unemployed
2021-01-20T01:53:23 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-01-20T01:54:42 < Steffanx> Party time or not catphish_ ?
2021-01-20T01:55:35 < Steffanx> Doling seems popular in the land of the brits 
2021-01-20T01:56:07 < catphish_> well i've not been working for the last 3 months, just made it official today
2021-01-20T01:56:36 < catphish_> but it's a nice relief, i was really suffering with stress and working from home
2021-01-20T01:57:01 < qyx> is it even possible to work onsite now in .uk?
2021-01-20T01:57:28 < catphish_> yes, but it's fairly rare
2021-01-20T01:57:53 < qyx> we have mandated home office now except when the emplyer goves you a written request to work onsite
2021-01-20T01:58:03 < qyx> I mean, nation wide
2021-01-20T01:59:44 < Steffanx> Here that wouldnt happen.. 
2021-01-20T02:00:04 < Steffanx> So many people still at work. Sooo busy on the roads 
2021-01-20T02:00:15 < catphish_> in the UK, it is legal to leave your home "for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible to work, or to provide those services, from home;"
2021-01-20T02:00:41 < catphish_> so, if you need to go to work, you can, if you don't need to, you can't
2021-01-20T02:00:42 < Steffanx> Whatever reasonable is
2021-01-20T02:01:40 < qyx> basically the same
2021-01-20T02:02:02 < qyx> except they said your employer should decide if reasonable and write it down
2021-01-20T02:02:16 < catphish_> there's a weird grey area for mental health
2021-01-20T02:02:34 < qyx> we have no mental health anymore
2021-01-20T02:03:15 < catphish_> i put my mental health first
2021-01-20T02:03:28 < catphish_> which is the reason i'm currently unemployed
2021-01-20T02:04:59 < qyx> we are doing ~110k of PCR and Ag tests daily with a 5.5 million population and it is still not enough
2021-01-20T02:05:36 < catphish_> the plan here is mostly just vaccine++++
2021-01-20T02:05:48 < qyx> here too but unavailable
2021-01-20T02:06:07 < qyx> 133k of doses available or so for now
2021-01-20T02:06:08 < catphish_> my wife got vaccinated on sunday because she works in healthcare
2021-01-20T02:06:21 < catphish_> it'll be a while before i get it
2021-01-20T02:06:36 < qyx> yeah we expect at the end of 2021
2021-01-20T02:06:47 < qyx> so idk how will the summer look like
2021-01-20T02:07:23 < catphish_> 4 million vaccinated in UK already
2021-01-20T02:07:29 < catphish_> so that's something
2021-01-20T02:07:45 < qyx> I'll just leave and will eat grass and buy some goatse or so
2021-01-20T02:08:12 < qyx> *goats, sorry
2021-01-20T02:08:24 < catphish_> my wife won't sneak me out a dose of vaccine :'(
2021-01-20T02:08:51 < catphish_> gotta give it to the stupid old people first apparently!
2021-01-20T02:09:42 < qyx> you are not likely to die
2021-01-20T02:10:23 < catphish_> i know :)
2021-01-20T02:11:29 < zyp> according to current schedule I should get it some time between april-june
2021-01-20T02:11:35 < zyp> https://www.grimstad.kommune.no/handlers/bv.ashx/iec26e976-7b8a-4ad0-bb78-01770d35e584/w1200/q861/k1c3dc426fe7b/my-post.png
2021-01-20T02:12:11 < qyx> you have 5mil too, don't you?
2021-01-20T02:13:26 < zyp> norway? yeah
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2021-01-20T02:21:58 < englishman> i thought catphish retired at 28
2021-01-20T02:24:24 < englishman> june is quite nice
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2021-01-20T02:28:46 < catphish_> englishman: i did not, i'm 34, i'm not really sure what qualifies as retired, but i think i have some life left in me
2021-01-20T02:29:36 < catphish_> i did stop working at 33, but that's probably not a permanent state of affairs
2021-01-20T02:35:44 < zyp> I like not working, but I also like earning money
2021-01-20T02:37:02 < t4nk_freenode> I like poopin'!
2021-01-20T02:37:11 < t4nk_freenode> but I don't like wiping my behind :|
2021-01-20T02:37:31 < zyp> kinda looking forward to going back to working at an office though
2021-01-20T02:38:45 < zyp> it's almost a year and a half since I did that regularly
2021-01-20T02:46:34 < catphish_> yeah i'm hoping i can work with humans again soon
2021-01-20T02:46:57 < catphish_> if i dont get the job i'm waiting on, then i'll have to find a project to work on with people
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2021-01-20T03:35:29 < englishman> someone at work got pozzed today
2021-01-20T03:35:36 < englishman> the last one was early march
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2021-01-20T05:19:19 < Netham46> I just bought an official ST-Link v2 NIB from Amazon, I can't get it to connect to any of my boards properly. It connects in hotplug mode and I can read, but I can't write or change OB over the st-link.
2021-01-20T05:19:38 < Netham46> It won't connect in any other mode but hotplug too
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2021-01-20T06:58:09 < Netham46> ^ Was caused by a faulty PSU dropping voltage when the chip erase was called.
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2021-01-20T11:10:36 < mawk> what's a nib
2021-01-20T11:10:44 < mawk> sounds like an insult
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2021-01-20T11:40:13 < Streaker> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nibs
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2021-01-20T12:18:46 < PaulFertser> Isn't it weird "press the button" and "depress the button" have the same meaning?
2021-01-20T12:22:17 < Hermitude> I guess it depends on whether you consider the button pressed in its default state
2021-01-20T12:22:45 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, fun coincidence :P
2021-01-20T12:25:29 < PaulFertser> Hermitude: no, depress means "press down", and for a button it's the only direction it can normally be pressed.
2021-01-20T12:31:34 < mawk> deflate the button
2021-01-20T12:38:36 < karlp> mawk: where did 300,400,500,600.700 come from?
2021-01-20T12:38:40 < karlp> I don't get it at all
2021-01-20T12:39:01 < mawk> I measure how much time it actually sleeps for 300µs, then 400µs, 500µs, 600µs, 700µs
2021-01-20T12:39:08 < mawk> I just handpicked these values
2021-01-20T12:39:32 < mawk> then when I know how much time it took for all of these, I fit the line that passes the closest to the actual time it slept
2021-01-20T12:41:37 < mawk> so I get a line y = ax+b, with x the request time and y the actual time
2021-01-20T12:42:01 < mawk> so if I want actual time = 500µs, I solve for x and I get (500 - b)/a which is the time I need to sleep to get 500µs in practice
2021-01-20T12:43:26 < mawk> in practice a will be very close to 1 since there's not much reason that you have anything but a delay to your clock
2021-01-20T12:44:25 < karlp> but where were the "actual" values in your maths shit?
2021-01-20T12:44:54 < karlp> I don't see how you ever took any model of what it actually did, at least not in the screenshots or code I've seen?
2021-01-20T12:45:30 < mawk> it's not in the screenshot I've showed, because the maths allows you to precompute the coefficients you will need for the fit without knowing the actual values yet
2021-01-20T12:46:57 < karlp> you're computing the transform for the affine rathe than just the linear ax+c?
2021-01-20T12:47:56 < mawk> affine is ax+c yes
2021-01-20T12:48:03 < mawk> linear would just be ax
2021-01-20T12:50:15 < karlp> so... you'r ematrix coeffs are just a fancy presentation of a and c?
2021-01-20T12:50:39 < karlp> and the equations to calculate them are just a way of taking some points and getting a line function out?
2021-01-20T12:51:26 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210120115118818.png like this with actual values
2021-01-20T12:51:40 < mawk> the matrix coefficients are not directly a and c, since a and c will depend on the actual values
2021-01-20T12:52:00 < mawk> but yes they're used to get a and c using the actual values
2021-01-20T12:52:15 < mawk> in the last case 2.15 is c and 1.0033.. is a
2021-01-20T12:52:33 < mawk> 2.15e3 sorry
2021-01-20T12:52:46 < mawk> and y is the actual sampled values
2021-01-20T12:52:55 < mawk> so like 301µs instead of expected 300µs, and so on
2021-01-20T12:53:30 < karlp> wtf is b?
2021-01-20T12:53:46 < karlp> fuck this.
2021-01-20T12:53:48  * karlp closes
2021-01-20T12:53:50 < mawk> lol
2021-01-20T12:53:54 < mawk> it's just part of the calculation
2021-01-20T12:53:58 < karlp> new axis what
2021-01-20T12:54:09 < mawk> that's just to make a column vector out of a line vector
2021-01-20T12:58:03 < mawk> that's just a regular linear regression
2021-01-20T12:58:08 < mawk> or least squares fit
2021-01-20T12:58:26 < mawk> and taking advantage of the fact I can precompute some stuff
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2021-01-20T13:10:25 < mawk> karlp: https://maths.serveur.io/NsBVDP8V if you remember your linear algebra
2021-01-20T13:10:52 < mawk> R_1[X] means all affine functions
2021-01-20T13:11:00 < mawk> 1 is the degree, affine is degree 1
2021-01-20T13:11:52 < mouseghost> wtf
2021-01-20T13:11:56 < mouseghost> why do they want to pour mathematicians
2021-01-20T13:11:58 < mouseghost> :(((?
2021-01-20T13:12:13 < mawk> mathematicians are not liquid
2021-01-20T13:12:26 < mouseghost> unless they are cats
2021-01-20T13:12:36 < mouseghost> mawk, and that implies some kind of melting or something before...
2021-01-20T13:12:53 < mawk> pour means for
2021-01-20T13:13:10 < mawk> it looks almost the same
2021-01-20T13:13:11 < karlp> mawk: you've completely failed to make that easier to understand, though I do credit you for at least trying.
2021-01-20T13:13:12 < mawk> pour, for
2021-01-20T13:13:22 < mawk> lol
2021-01-20T13:13:28 < zyp> haha
2021-01-20T13:13:31 < zyp> poor mawk 
2021-01-20T13:13:33 < mawk> you can do without linear algebra, but it's ugly
2021-01-20T13:13:43 < mawk> it's using these "statistics" thing I hate
2021-01-20T13:13:47 < mouseghost> mawk, pour is like puring covfefe into a cup
2021-01-20T13:14:36 < BrainDamage> mawk: this might interest you https://github.com/xwiki-labs/cryptpad/
2021-01-20T13:15:51 < karlp> this is the same as in school when i last learned this.
2021-01-20T13:16:05 < karlp> the "in particular, x|1, x|X" blah
2021-01-20T13:16:11 < karlp> that's who you get the nice matrix form with 1's in it,
2021-01-20T13:16:20 < karlp> but you had to know you wanted to get that to decide to arrange it like that 
2021-01-20T13:16:30 < karlp> it's the sort of leap I never could understand
2021-01-20T13:17:12 < karlp> it's like starting with the answer, using that to prove itself, and then just saying qed, and being smug
2021-01-20T13:19:45 < leibniz[m]> How to stop JLinkExe from prompting me with GUIs about updating firmwares and whatnot?
2021-01-20T13:20:00 < zyp> maybe update your firmware?
2021-01-20T13:20:09 < leibniz[m]> There is a `SuppressInfoUpdateFW` in the docs but I don't know how to issue it.
2021-01-20T13:20:15 < leibniz[m]> zyp: For automation
2021-01-20T13:20:17 < mawk> you have some property (f|Q) = (aX+c|Q) which is valid for any Q, so I used it several times to get enough equations to be able to arrange into a matrix; because I know in advance that when I have several unknowns it's necessary to have several equations that are different enough from one another to be able to determine the unknowns
2021-01-20T13:20:20 < mawk> ah nice BrainDamage yes
2021-01-20T13:20:41 < mawk> it's french and dutch funded
2021-01-20T13:27:09 < leibniz[m]> lol! so it turns out the they added the GUI feature in their CLI tool (for linux) which previously was missing
2021-01-20T13:28:15 < leibniz[m]> https://i.imgur.com/hxHMCsv.png
2021-01-20T13:28:15 < leibniz[m]> A -nogui switch for a CLI tool
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2021-01-20T14:24:14 < Hermitude> PaulFertser: some buttons needs to be pressed down before they can be unlatched upward
2021-01-20T14:24:49 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-01-20T14:24:54 < Hermitude> also doesn't depress mean something more like "hold down" where as just press is ambiguous as to how long or how lightly
2021-01-20T14:25:33 < Hermitude> I just got my little USB virtual com port working after what seems like weeks of struggle
2021-01-20T14:25:45 < Hermitude> it is 4:25 am
2021-01-20T14:25:50 < Hermitude> I think this calls for cup noodles
2021-01-20T14:28:38 < BrainDamage> flammable and inflammable mean the same thing in english
2021-01-20T14:33:11 < englishman> ininflammable in french means non-flammable in english
2021-01-20T14:33:34 < mawk> habitants in french, inhabitants in english
2021-01-20T14:33:49 < englishman> depress the button, then undepress the button.
2021-01-20T14:34:38 < karlp> ali realllllly doesn't seem to want to let me pay for things.
2021-01-20T14:34:47 < karlp> no guarantee that a new ccard will even help.
2021-01-20T14:35:01 < karlp> and I can't bring myself to upload drivers license and credit card statements to ali.
2021-01-20T14:35:07 < karlp> what a wonderful world
2021-01-20T14:35:38 < Hermitude> you need to switch from express to baba
2021-01-20T14:35:40 < karlp> got a suggestion that a document from my bank guaranteeing I had no chargebacks might help.
2021-01-20T14:35:49 < karlp> Hermitude: it's the same behind the scenes.
2021-01-20T14:36:20 < karlp> I'm being forced to do an alipay id verificaiton
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2021-01-20T14:36:23 < Hermitude> yeah but you arent really shopping until you are seeing if they can satisfy orders of 10,000/week
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2021-01-20T14:37:34 < karlp> not sure I follow?
2021-01-20T14:41:46 < mouseghost> karlp, i think alibaba is for bulk orders?
2021-01-20T14:42:41 < Hermitude> karlp: sorry, I am from Canada
2021-01-20T14:44:35 < Lux> karlp: can't you just use paypal ?
2021-01-20T14:44:53 < Lux> ali started accepting it like 1-2 Months ago
2021-01-20T14:45:06 < mouseghost> or dont you have like express payment from your bank?
2021-01-20T14:45:38 < qyx> ali accepts paypal?
2021-01-20T14:45:41 < qyx> oh!
2021-01-20T14:46:33 < Lux> but apparently not all sellers, though all I looked at accept it
2021-01-20T14:46:54 < Lux> yeah definetly beats using the cc
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2021-01-20T15:05:53 < jpa-> karlp: just use your wife's card number
2021-01-20T15:07:48 < qyx>  Estimated dispatch on Tue 19.01.2021
2021-01-20T15:07:51 < qyx> what re you doing aisler
2021-01-20T15:10:50 < jadew> you already got the package
2021-01-20T15:23:32 < jadew> kicad has gotten really good
2021-01-20T15:23:50 < jadew> I'm using the nightly version and it's really nice
2021-01-20T15:24:24 < jpa-> i haven't upgraded, but i've messed up my interactive router settings somehow
2021-01-20T15:24:30 < jpa-> it triest to do stupid stuff all the time
2021-01-20T15:25:42 < jadew> there aren't many settings there :) try disabling/enabling each one of them
2021-01-20T15:25:45 < qyx> jadew: does it have still the same file formats?
2021-01-20T15:25:54 < jadew> qyx, no
2021-01-20T15:26:00  * qyx sad panda
2021-01-20T15:26:39 < jadew> you can have colored nets now
2021-01-20T15:27:07 < jadew> and things are dragging nice now
2021-01-20T15:27:16 < jpa-> jadew: yeah i've tried, somehow it doesn't seem to help
2021-01-20T15:27:25 < jadew> you can for example select a chunk of the layout and drag it, and it will extend the traces correctly
2021-01-20T15:27:29 < jpa-> i think it might be something to do with clearances or something also
2021-01-20T15:27:36 < jpa-> not sure if grid size affects it
2021-01-20T15:32:12 < karlp> paying paypal a cut is actually more distasteful to me than sending ali my drivers license :)
2021-01-20T15:34:16 < jadew> someone has to take a cut
2021-01-20T15:35:07 < karlp> I'm struggling to see why just letting the car dcompanies handle it and take their cut isn' tsufficient
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2021-01-20T15:35:38 < karlp> why should I bring an extra party in like paypal?
2021-01-20T15:36:06 < karlp> also, paypal isn't an option for me anyway
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2021-01-20T15:36:34 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/OiMiM.png
2021-01-20T15:36:59 < jadew> right, I don't think paypal was ever an option
2021-01-20T15:37:04 < jadew> so why are you complaining?
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2021-01-20T15:38:13 < karlp> because I can't pay with my ccard
2021-01-20T15:38:43 < jadew> why not?
2021-01-20T15:39:35 < jadew> they're think you're trying to scam them?
2021-01-20T15:39:38 < karlp> becaus ali has decided tey want "identify verification"
2021-01-20T15:39:38 < jpa-> aliexpress found out that karlp is a scammer
2021-01-20T15:39:46 < jadew> haha
2021-01-20T15:42:31 < leibniz[m]> how to power the target (VTref) by Jlink itself?
2021-01-20T15:42:51 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: does your target accept 5 V for power?
2021-01-20T15:45:37 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: no...Is pin 1 of 10-pin JTAG (Vtref) input only? I thought I could provide Vcc via JLink itsel
2021-01-20T15:46:02 < zyp> karlp, brb, gonna go bruteforce last six digits :)
2021-01-20T15:46:18 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: no, jlink can provide 5 V power via pin 19 or something like that.
2021-01-20T15:47:29 < karlp> zyp: whatever, no cvn, no correct name or address for that one anyway
2021-01-20T15:48:15 < zyp> are you saying «karlp, iceland» isn't accurate enough?
2021-01-20T15:48:46 < jadew> so 10^9
2021-01-20T15:48:46 < karlp> infuriating though, no real guarantee that a new card would even fix this, even if one card works now.  seen hints online that thi si sjust slowly being rolled out to everyone
2021-01-20T15:49:11 < jadew> karlp, hasn't affected me yet
2021-01-20T15:49:23 < karlp> there's also no guarantee that sending them id shit even fixes anything, it's still "we'll review your appeal"
2021-01-20T15:49:44 < jadew> I think they just need your driver's name to put a face to the nickname you use here, for better monitoring
2021-01-20T15:50:02 < jadew> *driver's license
2021-01-20T15:51:11 < jadew> by the time they take over and implement social credits over there, you'll already be down a couple of points
2021-01-20T15:53:17 < mawk> navalniy was arrested lol
2021-01-20T15:53:20 < mawk> I missed that
2021-01-20T15:53:40 < mawk> they want to try again, they haven't got the right novitchok proportions last time
2021-01-20T15:53:49 < mawk> I can understand that, they want to properly finish their job
2021-01-20T15:56:52 < englishman> Hermitude: I am also sorry that you are from Canada
2021-01-20T15:58:49 < mawk> with a name like this that could only be from there
2021-01-20T16:04:20 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: https://dpaste.com/9GZZMLC6N do you have any idea what could be the problem here? I can't connect to an nRF52832
2021-01-20T16:06:30 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: usually it's bad connection to the target.
2021-01-20T16:17:24 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0c873@115.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-20T16:17:27 -!- Laurenceb is now known as Qanon
2021-01-20T16:17:33 -!- Qanon is now known as Q_anon
2021-01-20T16:18:03 < Q_anon> think you are about to see Biden sworn in? Think again, a STORM is coming
2021-01-20T16:18:37 < Q_anon> I am actually a medical doctor and have perfected the three way brain transplant
2021-01-20T16:19:10 < Q_anon> so when you see Biden sworn in you are actually watching Trump being sworn in, as his brain was transplanted into Bidens body
2021-01-20T16:19:29 < mawk> why three way?
2021-01-20T16:19:32 < mawk> who's the third
2021-01-20T16:19:46 < Q_anon> meanwhile Hillary was transplanted into Trumps body, so when you see him being sentenced to life in prison you are actually seeing Hillary being sentenced
2021-01-20T16:19:58 < mawk> lol
2021-01-20T16:20:15 < Q_anon> and Bidens brain is in Hillaries body, so he can spend the rest of his life getting fucked by Bill Clinton
2021-01-20T16:20:23 < Q_anon> win all round
2021-01-20T16:20:54 -!- Q_anon is now known as Laurenceb
2021-01-20T16:21:57 < fenugrec> englishman, get your banwhip
2021-01-20T16:22:02 < mawk> nooo
2021-01-20T16:22:04 < mawk> don't ban him
2021-01-20T16:23:43 < fenugrec> eh just some drive-by trolling ? nice
2021-01-20T16:23:56 < Laurenceb> fenugrec confirmed as Trump supporter
2021-01-20T16:24:18 < englishman> sup fenugrec 
2021-01-20T16:24:54 < englishman> Laurenceb performed a face/off swap on trump and biden
2021-01-20T16:25:12 < englishman> the vaccine made biden quite submissive
2021-01-20T16:25:20 < fenugrec> I see
2021-01-20T16:25:47 < englishman> Laurenceb: crapillary refill btfo https://spie.org/news/ai-based-oxygan-
2021-01-20T16:27:56 < Laurenceb> englishman: I was reading the news the other day, two Nottingham uni medical researchers tried to stab each other to death
2021-01-20T16:28:02 < Laurenceb> reminded me of babbyshake
2021-01-20T16:28:47 < Laurenceb> unfortunately I got b& from the main guys office before it got to that point
2021-01-20T16:29:23 < Laurenceb> hmm thats quite high error tbh
2021-01-20T16:31:04 < Laurenceb> everybabby shake meeting was liek
2021-01-20T16:31:41 < Laurenceb> >we should do this >no we should do this >wtf that was never the plan >reee wtf do we do now >I'll kill you bitch >I smash your fucking head in
2021-01-20T16:32:05 < Laurenceb> >ok why dont we all go home before this gets more nasty
2021-01-20T16:33:12 < Laurenceb> how I imagine a Trump cabinet meeting
2021-01-20T16:33:56 < Laurenceb> within 5 minute they are threatening to beat each other to death with the office chairs
2021-01-20T16:37:35 < zyp> ok
2021-01-20T16:40:12 < Laurenceb> wew Madrid btfo'd
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2021-01-20T16:46:57 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: You were goddamn right :) thanks
2021-01-20T16:47:22 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: :)
2021-01-20T16:47:25 < leibniz[m]> MFW JLink CLI commands are more clunky than BMP
2021-01-20T17:14:55 < fenugrec> I'm looking for something like autogen, but more... windows-friendly. Trying to have some .c, .h files autogenerated for long enums and arrays string consts. Ideas ?
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2021-01-20T17:39:39 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: I use OpenWrt, never used jlink cli.
2021-01-20T17:39:43 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-01-20T17:39:43 < PaulFertser> OpenOCD I mean
2021-01-20T17:40:07 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: Seems like I also should use nrfjprog (wrapper over jlinkExe)
2021-01-20T17:56:26 -!- tctw [~Tectu@82.197.160.105] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-20T18:06:54 < leibniz[m]> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1H840KeuSBuNjSsziq6zq8pXaP/3-stks-partij-20-p-14-p-10-p-ARM-JTAG-Adapter-Board-Ondersteuning-JLINK-J.jpg_q50.jpg
2021-01-20T18:06:55 < leibniz[m]> lol! the 10-pin socket of this "thing" is not SWD compatible! 
2021-01-20T18:07:19 < leibniz[m]> VTref is shorted to SWIO WTH
2021-01-20T18:11:20 < Steffanx> lol why the image name is in dutch, is is that name irrelevant.
2021-01-20T18:11:32 < Steffanx> its irrelevant ok
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2021-01-20T19:19:20 < Steffanx> Is leibniz[m] a dutchie?
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2021-01-20T19:39:28 < leibniz[m]> Steffanx: nah bro
2021-01-20T19:39:47 < leibniz[m]> How do people connect their Jlink to the target? dupont wires?
2021-01-20T19:40:05 < Steffanx> Too bad, i was going to ask you to send me stroopwafels, leibniz[m] 
2021-01-20T19:40:29 < Steffanx> tag connect, tag connect edge connect edition, 10 pin 1mm connector </end>
2021-01-20T19:40:48 < leibniz[m]> Steffanx: don't they have stroopwafels up there in iceland?
2021-01-20T19:41:00 < Steffanx> im dutch :P
2021-01-20T19:41:14 -!- tctw_ [~Tectu@82.197.160.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-01-20T19:41:18 < Steffanx> mr karl is icelanderish
2021-01-20T19:41:28  * leibniz[m] is clearly confused
2021-01-20T19:41:32 < leibniz[m]> ah right
2021-01-20T19:41:36 < englishman> leibniz[m]: you can buy or make this https://www.olimex.com/Products/ARM/JTAG/ARM-JTAG-20-10/
2021-01-20T19:41:46 < englishman> i made a lil one with blinky shit so i can see if there is a problem
2021-01-20T19:42:27 < Steffanx> indeed, i mostly use what englishman  posted.. or the real segger edition, but its kinda the same thing
2021-01-20T19:42:37 < englishman> see here https://documentation-service.arm.com/static/5fce6c49e167456a35b36af1?token=
2021-01-20T19:43:00 < Steffanx> Im scared by arm using word for this. And not even adding captions to the images.
2021-01-20T19:43:09 < englishman> and no they don't have any waffels, they have exported them all to pay for covid vaccine
2021-01-20T19:43:10 < Steffanx> and default windows fonts/colours
2021-01-20T19:44:52 < leibniz[m]> Steffanx: What do you mean Word? Every corpo uses word...you wouldn't see HR Stacy compiling LaTex 
2021-01-20T19:45:29 < Steffanx> Word is fine... but all defaults, no captions 🤮
2021-01-20T19:45:59 < leibniz[m]> 😅
2021-01-20T20:06:18 < BrainDamage> word can still output pf
2021-01-20T20:06:27 < BrainDamage> pdf
2021-01-20T20:06:45 < fenugrec> coould be worse, comic sans
2021-01-20T20:06:57 < BrainDamage> cosmic sans
2021-01-20T20:09:21 < qyx> Steffanx: I'll exchange waffels for some vaccines, you'll give me waffels and then you'll give me some vaccines
2021-01-20T20:09:29 < Steffanx> deal
2021-01-20T20:09:33 < qyx> k
2021-01-20T20:09:43 < Steffanx> what vaccines can you ship?
2021-01-20T20:10:00 < qyx> I would recommend you to read again
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2021-01-20T20:13:37 < Steffanx> oh lol
2021-01-20T20:14:11 < Steffanx> but how is that an exchange.
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2021-01-20T20:57:44 < t4nk_freenode> what do I do? buy a cheap-o led beamer for 200euro... or an 800euro somewhat reasonable device
2021-01-20T20:57:50 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-01-20T21:00:19 < t4nk_freenode> used to have a nice projector, decent zoom, decent lens shift.. but nowadays those features aren't common anymore
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2021-01-20T21:02:31 < t4nk_freenode> tried this cheap chinese thingy the other day, I was 'impressed' by the picture and brightness, but there was an input lag of more than 200ms.. idiotic
2021-01-20T21:31:38 < englishman> oops, 50mA drive strength on SN74AXC4T245RSV
2021-01-20T21:31:44 < englishman> it's keeping an entire power domain alive
2021-01-20T21:33:02 < englishman> what's a led beamer
2021-01-20T21:59:06 < karlp> projector if I remember my contintental english properly
2021-01-20T22:09:34 < englishman> o
2021-01-20T22:09:47 < englishman> i wonder if those cheap shits you see on amadong/alifuckmyass are any good
2021-01-20T22:10:01 < englishman> being as DLP is crazy cheap anyway
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2021-01-20T22:13:13 < karlp> hah, quacktel is sending dev kits for free
2021-01-20T22:13:33 < karlp> so much for the "corp can afford dev kits as the cost of entry"
2021-01-20T22:13:54 < karlp> didn't even ask, just asked to get an invoice for it, prices were reasonable
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2021-01-20T22:16:02 < qyx> karlp: which?
2021-01-20T22:16:20 < qyx> those ec20 you were seeking?
2021-01-20T22:16:21 < karlp> eg91x
2021-01-20T22:16:28 < karlp> eg91-ex sorry
2021-01-20T22:16:52 < qyx> they know you are a stable and mature bussiness when they see your web
2021-01-20T22:17:07 < qyx> they expect thousands of pieces monthly orders
2021-01-20T22:18:23 < t4nk_freenode> as a toy.. that chinese thing wasn't bad at all
2021-01-20T22:19:32 < karlp> no, I gave them honest plans and quote estimates
2021-01-20T22:20:02 < karlp> they have an ec912Y that's already apparently avialable, but not on their english website that's cheaper for us later.
2021-01-20T22:20:09  * karlp shrugs
2021-01-20T22:20:13 < karlp> lots of fun times ahead
2021-01-20T22:32:42 < mawk> then just delay the sound as well and you can watch movies t4nk_freenode 
2021-01-20T22:34:13 < t4nk_freenode> that's a given of course
2021-01-20T22:34:47 < t4nk_freenode> and if I want coordinated controller response or mouse movement, I'll simply implement some slight time travel :b
2021-01-20T22:35:30 < t4nk_freenode> maybe my particular device.. vankyo orsth, was just an extreme exception
2021-01-20T22:35:41 < t4nk_freenode> lol, but it was over 200ms lag
2021-01-20T22:37:01 < zyp> what would you use a projector for that requires low latency anyway?
2021-01-20T22:38:06 < t4nk_freenode> I used to live my nights on the big screen :| ... just running a desktop, sometimes a game(rare)
2021-01-20T22:40:11 < bitmask> are vacuum pumps supposed to sound like gurgling oil and is oil vapor supposed to come out the exhaust?
2021-01-20T22:40:34 < englishman> gaming on a projector is quite fun
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2021-01-20T22:42:45 < t4nk_freenode> I bought a projector back then, an xbox360 with fallout3... it was without doubt the kewlest experience I ever had
2021-01-20T22:43:08 < BrainDamage> bitmask: def yes on the latter, but not gurgling
2021-01-20T22:43:14 < t4nk_freenode> concerning games that is ;)
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2021-01-20T22:43:30 < bitmask> hmm
2021-01-20T22:44:14 < bitmask> and is 10-15 minutes for 120ml of silicone about right? it stopped trying to overflow after a minute or two and then slowly bubbled for about 10 minutes until it was done
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2021-01-20T22:46:22 < bitmask> my gauge is only saying 28.5 micron, not sure if thats accurate, was trying for at least 29.0
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2021-01-20T23:13:55 < karlp> what is tbat a measure of?
2021-01-20T23:14:56 < Steffanx> What kind of question is that?
2021-01-20T23:15:40 < Steffanx> one with a typo, alright :P
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2021-01-20T23:34:45 < karlp> no?
2021-01-20T23:35:05 < karlp> how is microns a measure ofvacuum?
2021-01-20T23:36:19 < zyp> mmhg, only in µm? :p
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2021-01-20T23:39:59 < BrainDamage> yup
2021-01-20T23:40:12 < BrainDamage> anything, to avoid using SI
2021-01-20T23:41:44 < BrainDamage> also, 4 Pa is pretty damn good for a vacuum pump
2021-01-20T23:42:25 < BrainDamage> you're not going to get much better without going with a fancier setup
2021-01-20T23:43:33 < zyp> bitmask made it sound like 29.0 was more vacuum than 28.5 though
2021-01-20T23:45:56 < BrainDamage> also, remember that it's a diminishing returns game, it's not like making a better vacuum is going to help much
2021-01-20T23:46:00 < mouseghost> sucky sucky
2021-01-20T23:46:24 < BrainDamage> the pressure difference between the air bubble and the chamber is already ~1 atm
2021-01-20T23:46:37 < mouseghost> zyp, doesnt it depend on the pressure meter?
2021-01-20T23:46:51 < BrainDamage> because 1-0.00001 and 1-0.0000001 are still both ~1
2021-01-20T23:47:40 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-20T23:49:17 < zyp> «The force of the atmosphere around us is equal to 29.92 inches of mercury or hg», given the range of numbers I suspect he were talking about -28.5 vs -29 inhg relative to atmospheric pressure
2021-01-20T23:49:26 < zyp> and not microns at all
2021-01-20T23:49:41 < mouseghost> INCHES
2021-01-20T23:49:51 < mouseghost> inches...
2021-01-20T23:49:52 < mouseghost> pls
2021-01-20T23:49:53 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-20T23:50:13 < mouseghost>  oh right
2021-01-20T23:50:18 < mouseghost> ah i understand what you mean
2021-01-20T23:54:29 < zyp> that'd be around 4.8 kPa then, probably much more realistic than 4 Pa :)
2021-01-20T23:56:03 < BrainDamage> yep, even then so, we're talking about few  % of an atm difference
2021-01-20T23:56:41 < zyp> true
--- Day changed Thu Jan 21 2021
2021-01-21T00:03:26 < karlp> ok. sure, but if its mmhg, or hgin, byr in microns, isnt 28.5 _better£ rgan 29?
2021-01-21T00:03:34 < karlp> better than
2021-01-21T00:03:49 < karlp> man, everywhere i go i type like shit
2021-01-21T00:04:18 < karlp> make excuseses for keyboard, for phone....
2021-01-21T00:04:20 < zyp> that's why I figure it's not
2021-01-21T00:04:25 < karlp> matbe..... irs me.....
2021-01-21T00:04:44 < Ultrasauce> first day with the new fingers
2021-01-21T00:05:12 < karlp> bur really.... mercury height in fucking microns? who the fuck thought that was a good idea?,!
2021-01-21T00:05:46 < Steffanx> Freddie?
2021-01-21T00:05:48 < qyx> exclamation mark!
2021-01-21T00:05:55 < zyp> somebody used to mmhg that hates decimals?
2021-01-21T00:05:56 < qyx> (I type the same on touchscreen)
2021-01-21T00:06:07 < karlp> freddie?
2021-01-21T00:06:11 < qyx> mercury..
2021-01-21T00:08:28 < qyx> so I progressed a bit with my interleaved 400 V DC-DC https://bin.jvnv.net/file/l1zcH/Screenshot_2021-01-20_23-08-00.png
2021-01-21T00:08:34 < qyx> expecting beaky time
2021-01-21T00:09:41 < Steffanx> No beaky would add ethernet 
2021-01-21T00:10:11 < qyx> no stm32 at all, I'll connect a nucleo with some jumper wires
2021-01-21T00:10:50 < qyx> there are just some drivers from the bottom https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AdTqn/Screenshot_2021-01-20_23-10-31.png
2021-01-21T00:12:06 < karlp> thats a lot of heatsink
2021-01-21T00:12:07 < mouseghost> sbrk.c:(.text._sbrk+0x18): undefined reference to `end'
2021-01-21T00:12:10 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-01-21T00:12:35 < karlp> mousr, linket scripts are tightly coupled witb startup code
2021-01-21T00:12:36 < qyx> karlp: expecting it to not catch fire doing 20 A at 50 V
2021-01-21T00:12:43 < Ultrasauce> the heap that goes on forever
2021-01-21T00:12:43 < karlp> dont try and mixnmatch
2021-01-21T00:13:15 < zyp> sbrk isn't really startup code though
2021-01-21T00:13:29 < zyp> but yeah, it also relies on linker script defined symbols
2021-01-21T00:13:38 < Steffanx> Where and how do you get the discipline/motivation/whatever to design new PCBs nonstop qyx?
2021-01-21T00:13:39 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-01-21T00:13:43 < Steffanx> I want some of that 
2021-01-21T00:13:47 < karlp> well, its dependent on ld symvols
2021-01-21T00:13:53 < mouseghost> set end to heat start and it shut it up for the time being
2021-01-21T00:14:02 < karlp> yeah, qyx is a machine
2021-01-21T00:14:35 < qyx> Steffanx: quite much work atm and the people are willing to pay which is somewhat surprising being in central-east eu
2021-01-21T00:14:45 < qyx> but this one is a play-pcb
2021-01-21T00:15:09 < qyx> actually I must outsource some programming now because no time left
2021-01-21T00:15:25 < Steffanx> But you seem to do it 16+ hours/day... how
2021-01-21T00:15:35 < Steffanx> 7 days/week
2021-01-21T00:16:04 < qyx> it depends, when the kid is not here, I may work nonstop
2021-01-21T00:16:21 < qyx> because the next week or so there wll be exactly 0 hours for work
2021-01-21T00:17:11 < qyx> and he is with grandparents now
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2021-01-21T00:42:37 < zyp> I wish I could manage to finish as much as qyx 
2021-01-21T00:43:15 < zyp> I feel like I'm always trying to do too much at once, and then I end up spreading myself too thin to actually finish anything
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2021-01-21T00:45:25 < qyx> same here
2021-01-21T00:47:07 < t4nk_freenode> amen
2021-01-21T00:48:09 < zyp> the laks rework I'm currently doing have way too many tangents I can go off and waste time on :p
2021-01-21T00:50:05 < t4nk_freenode> I guess I can delay the decision to buy a projector for another day
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2021-01-21T01:05:32 < qyx> I really look forward to solder those big bulky components and TO220 mosfets
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2021-01-21T03:11:20 < mawk> my remote control thing is working fine
2021-01-21T03:20:12 < Hermitude> great
2021-01-21T03:20:44 < mawk> yes it's beautiful
2021-01-21T03:20:48 < Hermitude> spreading yourself too thin is half the fun
2021-01-21T03:21:04 < mawk> I'm not liquid
2021-01-21T03:21:21 < Hermitude> if you wanted a hobby that let you get things done, you would be making web page CSS or knitting socks
2021-01-21T03:21:56 < qyx> you are not being helpful
2021-01-21T03:22:12 < Hermitude> that's also the realm of sock making
2021-01-21T03:37:03 < qyx> zyp: whats the usb-c lcd you have?
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2021-01-21T10:01:36 < Jak_o_Shadows> Any thoughts here on the new raspberry pi micro?
2021-01-21T10:01:49 < Jak_o_Shadows> It's a bit off-topic, and it's not exactly what I would use for a professional thing
2021-01-21T10:02:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> But it's dual core M0, and has a weird programmable io/state machien thing
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2021-01-21T10:22:41 < mawk> it will be interesting when they put a cortex M core on the regular pi
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2021-01-21T10:30:42 < mawk> not many peripherals on that
2021-01-21T10:30:50 < mawk> it's a bit lame even
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2021-01-21T10:40:14 < zyp> qyx, ipad retina panel with dongs' adapter board
2021-01-21T10:41:05 < zyp> http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=59
2021-01-21T10:53:54 < mawk> Sorry, but any requests regarding broken connector will not be handled. You broke it, you deal with it. 
2021-01-21T10:53:56 < mawk> lol
2021-01-21T10:54:49 < zyp> I think I broke the connector on the old board (displayport input) when I changed to this one with usb-c input
2021-01-21T10:59:49 < Steffanx> Heh I reminds me I also have 2 of those displays... never use  them  anymore-_-
2021-01-21T11:00:06 < Steffanx> The older ones that is
2021-01-21T11:00:16 < mawk> http://abusemark.com/store/images/stm32_dev.jpg
2021-01-21T11:00:18 < mawk> lol
2021-01-21T11:01:21 < Steffanx> Mawk https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/dolls-on-pcbs.txt
2021-01-21T11:01:35 < mawk> http://abusemark.com/store/images/stm32_dev_f3.jpg
2021-01-21T11:01:57 < mawk> lol
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2021-01-21T11:03:22 < mawk> you like professeur tournesol karlp ?
2021-01-21T11:18:39 < zyp> hmm, that RP2040 looks weird, why M0+ and a separate divider peripheral instead of just going with a M3 or something
2021-01-21T11:19:23 < zyp> only 30 gpio in a qfn56 also sounds low
2021-01-21T11:22:00 < mawk> and low peripheral count
2021-01-21T11:22:06 < mawk> I guess it's just neural net stuff maybe
2021-01-21T11:22:12 < mawk> they provide tensorflowlite to put on it
2021-01-21T11:22:18 < mawk> with the dual 133MHz cores
2021-01-21T11:22:24 < mawk> that's quite high
2021-01-21T11:22:27 < mawk> more or less
2021-01-21T11:22:29 < zyp> idk, peripherals sounds fine
2021-01-21T11:22:49 < zyp> two uarts, two spi, two i2c, 16 pwm channels, usb
2021-01-21T11:22:53 < mawk> usb 1
2021-01-21T11:22:55 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-21T11:22:55 < zyp> four adc inputs is a bit low
2021-01-21T11:23:01 < mawk> 1.1
2021-01-21T11:23:09 < zyp> eh, it's usb2 FS
2021-01-21T11:23:18 < zyp> I bet it's DWC_OTG
2021-01-21T11:23:19 < mawk> they say usb 1.1 in the docs
2021-01-21T11:23:29 < zyp> yeah, but usb2 FS is usb 1.1
2021-01-21T11:23:32 < mawk> ah
2021-01-21T11:23:57 < mawk> so the confusing usb version number isn't just from usb 3
2021-01-21T11:24:56 < zyp> version numbers are not interesting, think of usb2 in terms of LS/FS/HS and usb3 in terms of GenAxB
2021-01-21T11:25:54 < zyp> and probably usb4 as well
2021-01-21T11:27:19 < zyp> I haven't read the usb4 spec yet, but it seems to be mostly a standardization of usb-c altmodes
2021-01-21T11:27:36 < zyp> ah, it introduces Gen3 as well
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2021-01-21T11:41:43 < Steffanx> ofcourse version numbers are "interesting" because everyone uses that. -_-
2021-01-21T11:43:40 < zyp> version numbers are not interesting because each version generally just adds additional speed modes while still allowing the previous ones
2021-01-21T11:44:18 < zyp> it works to distinguish usb2/usb3, but not to distinguish between FS and HS
2021-01-21T11:44:31 < effractur> USB4 offers no new usb stuff
2021-01-21T11:44:38 < effractur> it just encapsulated stuff over a new link
2021-01-21T11:44:47 < effractur> and each node needs a mux to demux the signals
2021-01-21T11:45:12 < effractur> and because that link is faster it can be push a bit more usb3
2021-01-21T11:45:55 < effractur> but it is quite cool with the whole TB3 backwards compatiblity
2021-01-21T11:46:05 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-21T11:46:51 < effractur> but it indeed mostly fixes the mess of a lot of optional stuff by making it mandatory
2021-01-21T11:47:17 < effractur> so i mostly think we will see usb4 in hubs/docks and monitors 
2021-01-21T11:47:22 < effractur> not a lot of endpoint devices
2021-01-21T11:47:32 < zyp> true
2021-01-21T11:47:56 < zyp> and yeah, the point of usb4 seems to be about making useful hubs
2021-01-21T11:47:59 < effractur> because if you need pcie then you will probaly brand it as thunderbolt given that is optional
2021-01-21T11:48:03 < effractur> for usb4
2021-01-21T12:08:29 < Steffanx> zyp: yeah i meant, not interesting, but you still have to know that 1.1 = USB2.0 FS and its just fucking confusing they still use both names.
2021-01-21T12:09:28 < Steffanx> but yeah, have to blame the rpi foundation for that in this case.
2021-01-21T12:09:55 < Steffanx> but USB and their renaming shit is just awfully annoying.
2021-01-21T12:12:28 < Steffanx> I mean. USB3.2 Gen 1, USB3.1 Gen 1, USB3.0 is supposed to be the same thing?
2021-01-21T12:15:58 < mawk> Steffanx: https://serveur.io/remote.mp4
2021-01-21T12:16:50 < Steffanx> wonderful mawk 
2021-01-21T12:16:55 < mawk> yes
2021-01-21T12:17:17 < Steffanx> I still would have gone for some uart/USB 1.1 device and do it all on STM32 :P
2021-01-21T12:17:28 < Steffanx> but cool you made it work.
2021-01-21T12:18:10 < mawk> if my bitbanging didn't work I would've made DMA and it would've been fine
2021-01-21T12:18:22 < mawk> and anyway the pi has realtime cores you can more or less use, even if documentation isn't great
2021-01-21T12:18:26 < mawk> that's almost a stm32
2021-01-21T12:18:48 < Steffanx> yeah, but i also wouldnt want to reuse the remote and hack into the transmitter part.
2021-01-21T12:18:51 < mawk> when you boot a pi you see a colorful target, it's the videocore coprocessor doing that; you can run tasks on it
2021-01-21T12:19:06 < mawk> where would you hook the wires then?
2021-01-21T12:19:15 < Steffanx> custom transmitter.
2021-01-21T12:19:27 < mawk> with IR? but then it needs to be properly aligned and so on
2021-01-21T12:20:04 < Steffanx> Your remote does it so why cant a little tiny custom thingy not do it?
2021-01-21T12:20:18 < Steffanx> Custom is always better, you must know this by now 
2021-01-21T12:20:22 < mawk> lol
2021-01-21T12:20:34 < mawk> my receiver hack is very custom
2021-01-21T12:22:03 < mawk> and anyway now I can run more or less realtime tasks in userspace on a pi, that's cool too
2021-01-21T12:22:38 < mawk> chrt --fifo 98 yourcommandgoeshere  # it's as simple as that to run with realtime scheduler
2021-01-21T12:22:48 < mawk> and it works even without the realtime patch, it will just be slightly less realtime
2021-01-21T12:23:08 < mawk> but even without the patch you can set the kernel in "mostly preemptible" mode at compilation, it's called low-latency mode
2021-01-21T12:23:31 < Steffanx> but i dont want to do custom kernel stuff either
2021-01-21T12:23:39 < mawk> I did nothing in the kernel
2021-01-21T12:23:45 < mawk> I just installed a rt kernel
2021-01-21T12:23:49 < mawk> they're available in the distro repositories
2021-01-21T12:23:56 < Steffanx> after compiling it yourself
2021-01-21T12:24:09 < mawk> no
2021-01-21T12:24:13 < mawk> I just wanted to have fun compiling
2021-01-21T12:24:17 < mawk> but it's available in repos too
2021-01-21T12:24:17 < Steffanx> -
2021-01-21T12:24:19 < Steffanx> -_-
2021-01-21T12:24:25 < mawk> linux-image-rt-amd64 for PC for instance
2021-01-21T12:25:09 < Steffanx> and then your fancy curve fitting etc. sure its cool it works, but -> stm32 :P
2021-01-21T12:25:35 < Steffanx> Why not the DMA btw? Just this way for the fun of it?
2021-01-21T12:28:20 < mawk> dma is complicated
2021-01-21T12:28:25 < mawk> even more on rpi especially with gpio
2021-01-21T12:28:38 < mawk> the dma runs at full speed with gpio, it is not clock gated
2021-01-21T12:28:43 < mawk> so it's too fast for the gpio and just trashes the port
2021-01-21T12:28:48 < Steffanx> Yeah, what would you do with DMA anyway? Have a timer trigger a transfer and do it in some ugly weird way or .. ?
2021-01-21T12:28:56 < mawk> so you have to hack it by using the trigger signal from another peripheral
2021-01-21T12:29:03 < mawk> like SPI
2021-01-21T12:29:21 < mawk> well you supply a chained list of operations to do
2021-01-21T12:29:30 < mawk> with timing between them or something
2021-01-21T12:29:43 < mawk> so you can say at time 0 set gpio = 1, at time 9ms set gpio = 0, and so on
2021-01-21T12:29:47 < mawk> to construct the waveform
2021-01-21T12:30:49 < Steffanx> Doesnt the rpi have some timers/pwm available?
2021-01-21T12:31:00 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-21T12:31:06 < mawk> but you can't use it to time DMA transfer apparently
2021-01-21T12:31:14 < mawk> you need to get the timer from a suitable peripheral like SPI
2021-01-21T12:31:28 < mawk> which makes the peripheral unavailable as a side effect
2021-01-21T12:31:29 < Steffanx> Cant even use the DMA to reload some timer registers?
2021-01-21T12:32:22 < mawk> probably not, at least the only way to use it with gpio is like I said
2021-01-21T12:32:40 < mawk> I asked highly respected experts on #raspberrypi 
2021-01-21T12:32:42 < Steffanx> Now i see why they made this new MCU. So you can do your software pwm with the dual core 133MHz m0+ :)
2021-01-21T12:33:18 < mawk> lol
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2021-01-21T13:11:07 < qyx> zyp: and a custom "enclosure"?
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2021-01-21T13:13:24 < zyp> some lasercut acrylic stuff I bought from a third party
2021-01-21T13:16:14 < qyx> hdmi version sold out :(
2021-01-21T13:18:44 < qyx> and how much was the display? trying to find anything on ebay, they start at ~$70
2021-01-21T13:23:54 < zyp> hmm, don't remember
2021-01-21T13:24:07 < zyp> IIRC I bought one from ebay, arrived broken, got a refund
2021-01-21T13:24:15 < zyp> and then I got one from dongs
2021-01-21T13:25:37 < zyp> $61 for the ebay one
2021-01-21T13:26:05 < zyp> almost 8 years ago :)
2021-01-21T13:26:33 < qyx> :D
2021-01-21T13:26:57 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/RYGJP.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GMuwy.jpg
2021-01-21T13:27:38 < qyx> wasn't flexible enough
2021-01-21T13:28:04 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-21T13:35:37 < mouseghost> zyp, a piece of art
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2021-01-21T14:01:08 < Steffanx> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/IYkuQ3Wt/20210121_130056.jpg
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2021-01-21T14:01:15 < Steffanx> my 3d printed edition :)
2021-01-21T14:08:23 < englishman> heh I just used kapton to suspend them from my monitors
2021-01-21T14:09:44 < Steffanx> i dont even use it anymore. Dont have real use for it. I just had to look for it for this photo :P
2021-01-21T14:11:45 < qyx> Steffanx: ooh except those screws
2021-01-21T14:11:49 < qyx> don't you need it?
2021-01-21T14:11:57 < qyx> which "version" is it
2021-01-21T14:12:29 < Steffanx> mini DP + microusb edition.
2021-01-21T14:12:31 < zyp> I use mine as a travel monitor, I like that the acrylic stuff is sturdy enough I can just throw it in the suitcase
2021-01-21T14:12:57 < qyx> I need it for the same
2021-01-21T14:13:01 < zyp> but before I swapped to the usb-c board in it, I didn't really use it
2021-01-21T14:13:30 < qyx> Steffanx: wouldn't you like to get rid of it?
2021-01-21T14:13:37 < zyp> :D
2021-01-21T14:13:40 < qyx> :>
2021-01-21T14:15:27 < Steffanx> Maybe....
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2021-01-21T14:55:07 < qyx> lcsc has stocked some stm32s
2021-01-21T14:55:21 < qyx> theres a big advertisement 100000 parts just arrived
2021-01-21T14:55:31 < qyx> they even have L452 I need
2021-01-21T14:56:10 < qyx> but still no F042Gx :(
2021-01-21T14:59:40 < qyx> If your file is a single board,the minimum size we can make is 6mm*6mm.
2021-01-21T14:59:55 < qyx> so 8.5x70 is good for them
2021-01-21T15:00:21 < qyx> in the past jlc and most of the others were not willing to do anything smaller than 10 mm
2021-01-21T15:00:29 < englishman> esp32 still in stock at digikey
2021-01-21T15:01:54 -!- catphish_ [~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-21T15:01:59 < qyx> considering it for ethernet+wifi+can
2021-01-21T15:02:20 < catphish_> so, how about that new rPi MCU?
2021-01-21T15:05:07 < catphish_> the chances of me buying a dev board are approximately 100%
2021-01-21T15:06:10 < zyp> doesn't seem very useful
2021-01-21T15:06:34 < zyp> as far as I can see the only thing that makes it stand out is the rpi name
2021-01-21T15:06:55 < zyp> on the other hand, it doesn't seem awful either
2021-01-21T15:07:33 < BrainDamage> the last statement would make it stand out from the rpi line
2021-01-21T15:07:37 < catphish_> my assumption is that what will make it stand out will be an easy to use IDE, and because of the name, a huge quantity of documentation, tutorials, etc
2021-01-21T15:08:07 < catphish_> it seems like a fairly capable device for the money too
2021-01-21T15:08:19 < BrainDamage> huge amount of docs is not true for the reminder of the rpi
2021-01-21T15:08:33 < catphish_> i strongly disagree
2021-01-21T15:08:48 < BrainDamage> there's huge amount of redundant docs, but entire parts completely obscure
2021-01-21T15:08:49 < mouseghost> hm, what do you think, can serial block or not?
2021-01-21T15:09:10 < mouseghost> also, a question, when does an interrupt 'clean'? at function return?
2021-01-21T15:09:20 < catphish_> that's not to say the hardware is well documented, but that's not what i'm getting at, i mean the community documentation, endless tutorials etc
2021-01-21T15:09:32 < catphish_> fortunately, their new silicon *is* properly documented i believe
2021-01-21T15:10:21 < catphish_> Dual-core Arm Cortex M0+ processor, flexible clock running up to 133 MHz, 2 × SPI, 2 × I2C, 2 × UART, 3 × 12-bit ADC, 16 × controllable PWM channels, USB 1.1 with device and host support, 264KB of SRAM, and 2MB of on-board Flash memory, Accelerated floating-point libraries on-chip
2021-01-21T15:10:40 < catphish_> i'm largely sold on the concept, but what will matter to me is how easily i can program the thing
2021-01-21T15:10:56 < zyp> catphish_, but what does it get you over any common stm32?
2021-01-21T15:10:57 < catphish_> i very often want something more powerful than arduino, but less hassle then stm32
2021-01-21T15:11:11 < zyp> I don't see how it would be less hassle
2021-01-21T15:11:59 < BrainDamage> I think the #1 hassle for stm32 is managing the clock tree
2021-01-21T15:12:21 < zyp> there's already plenty of dumbed down stm32 libs/IDEs
2021-01-21T15:12:34 < catphish_> well that remains to be seen, perhaps it's just a personal thing, but i like arduino's easy to use IDE, getting started without having to set up a big mess of project boilerplate
2021-01-21T15:12:41 < catphish_> i realise stm32 does have an arduino port though
2021-01-21T15:12:47 < zyp> so why don't you use arduino on stm32?
2021-01-21T15:13:00 < catphish_> that's actually a really good question, i should!
2021-01-21T15:13:12 < catphish_> for quick projects, that would be a huge win for me
2021-01-21T15:13:49 < qyx> catphish_: run arduino on stm32!
2021-01-21T15:14:00 < qyx> on zyp already suggested
2021-01-21T15:14:19 < BrainDamage> run stm32 on atmega arduinos
2021-01-21T15:14:21 < catphish_> i do quite like the look of this rpi C library
2021-01-21T15:14:35 < catphish_> i don't have it like i hate the stm32 HAL :)
2021-01-21T15:14:51 < catphish_> anyway, i just thought it was interesting, something worth testing
2021-01-21T15:17:56 < catphish_> ordered :)
2021-01-21T15:19:18 < zyp> the only somewhat interesting part about it is that it has two cpus
2021-01-21T15:19:31 < zyp> but I doubt the usefulness of that
2021-01-21T15:19:44 < catphish_> that is an interesting bonus, but probably not something i'll find myself using
2021-01-21T15:19:59 < zyp> exactly
2021-01-21T15:20:08 < zyp> it's interesting, but not really all that useful
2021-01-21T15:20:26 < catphish_> if i used it, it would probably be as a GPU
2021-01-21T15:20:28 < qyx> do you remember lpc4šxx?
2021-01-21T15:20:36 < zyp> yes
2021-01-21T15:20:37 < qyx> lpc43xx?
2021-01-21T15:20:53 < qyx> it was interesting too with two cores :>
2021-01-21T15:21:08 < zyp> yeah, that's why I made a board with it, that I never used for anything
2021-01-21T15:21:42 < zyp> stm32wb is also interesting for that reason, but CPU2 is locked down
2021-01-21T15:21:47 < zyp> and nrf53 is interesting
2021-01-21T15:21:50 < catphish_> yay, got a call from my prospective employer, they're still interested, just waiting for a job spec :)
2021-01-21T15:22:17 < zyp> although I figure for RF MCUs there's actually a real benefit in having one core for the radio stack and one core for other shit
2021-01-21T15:24:41 < catphish_> i actually quite like this raspberry pi 400 too (the PC in the keyboard)
2021-01-21T15:30:58 < karlp> with rp2040, you also get to learn a new assembly language!
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2021-01-21T16:00:02 < aandrew> mouseghost: interrupts can clear on a variety of places. Normally when the status register is read, but there are also "persistent" interrupts where you have to write a "clear instruction" to acknowledge it
2021-01-21T16:00:45 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-21T16:00:48 < mouseghost> and how does nvic work uhh
2021-01-21T16:00:59 < mouseghost> does it push the isr handler on the stack .w.?
2021-01-21T16:01:10 < mouseghost> i mean, what if program is interrupted, and interrupt happens?
2021-01-21T16:01:29 < englishman> maybe you could emulate a stm32 on the new rpi
2021-01-21T16:01:30 < aandrew> when an interrupt occurs one of the first things is that interrupts are disabled to prevent that
2021-01-21T16:01:39 < mouseghost> ah
2021-01-21T16:02:03 < aandrew> nested interrupts are a thing, as are priority interrupts, but neither of those is needed in >95% of applications
2021-01-21T16:02:45 < aandrew> on some architectures there is also the concept of FIQs (fast interrupts) which have lower latency
2021-01-21T16:02:49 < mouseghost> the only way of solving that thing, that i can think of, that is, is storing some kind of data in a global variable and then, when handler exits into the thread, a while loop picks it up
2021-01-21T16:03:11 < aandrew> perhaps you've already said it, but what are you trying to do / understand
2021-01-21T16:04:43 < mouseghost> aandrew, i have a virtual machine which would execute some functions, some of which set up and wait for a timer
2021-01-21T16:05:08 < mouseghost> tho idk if vm is good category for that lol
2021-01-21T16:05:22 < mouseghost> just fsm with some kind of programming language thing
2021-01-21T16:07:41 < mouseghost> and its programmed through usb
2021-01-21T16:08:37 < aandrew> it sounds very ... big
2021-01-21T16:08:57 < aandrew> remember if you're waiting on a varable change from an isr that variable needs to be declared volatile
2021-01-21T16:09:12 < aandrew> and of course if you have any kind of RTOS running you will have a bunch of primitives intended exactly for this kind of thing
2021-01-21T16:09:53 < mouseghost> uhh i dont have an rtos... yet :D
2021-01-21T16:09:59 < mouseghost> its my own project so i can do whatever i want
2021-01-21T16:10:10 < aandrew> my non-rtos, stupid simple stuff always set up a 1ms timer and the ISR would count 10 and 100 of them, giving me tick_1ms, tick_10ms and tick_100ms volatile bools
2021-01-21T16:10:59 < aandrew> my main loop would then be something like while (1) { if (tick_1ms) { do_1ms_things(); tick_1ms = false; } if (tick_10ms) { do_10ms_things(); tick_10ms = false; } };
2021-01-21T16:11:17 < mouseghost> oh very cool
2021-01-21T16:11:33 < mouseghost> also, why did you say 'it sounds very ... big'; aandrew?
2021-01-21T16:12:08 < aandrew> that kind of setup had some nice advantages. First and foremost, it allowed me to "peel off" specific functions to prioritize them, but the most important thing was that it was impossible to have a bunch of "gotta do 1ms stuff now" events pile up if something took longer than expected
2021-01-21T16:12:44 < aandrew> if I did something stupid such as run something that took 300ms in the 1ms tick, it'd just run again <=1ms after it finished. 
2021-01-21T16:13:01 < mouseghost> hm
2021-01-21T16:13:02 < aandrew> mouseghost: I'm thinking you've got some RPC thing between an arduino and a VMWare VM or something
2021-01-21T16:13:10 < mouseghost> aandrew, noooo lol
2021-01-21T16:13:50 < mouseghost> a wrapper for external programming kind-of-thing with its own functions, pc etc
2021-01-21T16:13:55 < mouseghost> and registers
2021-01-21T16:14:36 < mouseghost> (tho no own stack ;p)
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2021-01-21T16:30:01 < karlp> holy shit, pulse audio is even more of a shitstorm than I thought. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/merge_requests/227
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2021-01-21T16:34:47 < qyx> whats wrong wih it?
2021-01-21T16:35:01 < qyx> except it loads superslowly
2021-01-21T16:35:22 < Steffanx> big drama
2021-01-21T16:35:27 < karlp> can't switch my headset to hfp/hsp mode because the maintainers and contributors are yelling at each other
2021-01-21T16:35:32 < Steffanx> and it seems the MR was never accepted?
2021-01-21T16:35:34 < karlp> so can't use the microphone on it.
2021-01-21T16:37:46 < fenugrec> poetteringaudio
2021-01-21T16:38:12 < karlp> except he didn't keep working with it, just left it on us
2021-01-21T16:38:31 < fenugrec> he abandoned ship at the best moment
2021-01-21T16:45:50 < aandrew> wow you're trying to use bluetooth on linux? you're a brave soul
2021-01-21T16:46:36 < effractur> well so the discussion is
2021-01-21T16:46:42 < effractur> should pulseaudio / bluez
2021-01-21T16:46:51 < effractur> include decocders/transcoders for audiocodecs
2021-01-21T16:46:57 < effractur> or should that be done by some external lib
2021-01-21T16:47:31 < effractur> and there was a whole large bitchfight abou tit
2021-01-21T16:47:37 < effractur> like make it now work or do it proper
2021-01-21T16:51:09 < Steffanx> Yeah, but in the end the bitchfight was about them being slow, not responding, banning people, contacting the wrong people and what not
2021-01-21T16:51:34 < effractur> yea it escalated quite quickly
2021-01-21T16:52:29 < fenugrec> haha they banned him from entire gitlab ? man
2021-01-21T16:52:32 < fenugrec> such drama
2021-01-21T16:54:00 < fenugrec> pretty happy with my wired headset atm
2021-01-21T16:54:13 < fenugrec> audiophile 3.5mm quality included
2021-01-21T16:54:19 < Steffanx> my wireless headphone works fine.. on windows :D
2021-01-21T16:54:51 < effractur> it works fine under linux too
2021-01-21T16:54:57 < effractur> as long as you don't want to use the mice
2021-01-21T16:54:59 < effractur> mic*
2021-01-21T16:55:11 < Steffanx> i use it for that too. sooo
2021-01-21T16:55:26 < effractur> and it works just the quality is shit
2021-01-21T16:55:31 < effractur> so long calls are somewhat horrible
2021-01-21T16:55:39 < Steffanx> thats already the case
2021-01-21T16:57:05 < Steffanx> ok, not shit. just less great.
2021-01-21T17:09:08 < zyp> the worst part is that people are spending more effort arguing about bullshit than what it would actually take to get the stuff merged
2021-01-21T17:16:03 < englishman> wired headphones... wut
2021-01-21T17:16:16 -!- PublicWiFi [~McDonalds@unaffiliated/mcdonaldswifi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2021-01-21T17:16:57 < fenugrec> yea you know the kind that you don't need to charge, have the best quality, and work with everything
2021-01-21T17:17:33 < englishman> yeah you plug them into a record player or something, i seem to remember seeing them in the back pages of a superman comic book
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2021-01-21T17:19:12 < BrainDamage> wait when pipewire comes in
2021-01-21T17:19:20 < BrainDamage> it'll replace both pa and jack
2021-01-21T17:19:39 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
2021-01-21T17:19:55 < BrainDamage> so both the profssional music community and the casual user will be united in anger
2021-01-21T17:20:01 < BrainDamage> quite the power move
2021-01-21T17:20:02 < fenugrec> englishman, don't diss the walkman !
2021-01-21T17:20:26 < fenugrec> is it the systemd of audio
2021-01-21T17:20:27 < Steffanx> sony discman forever!!!
2021-01-21T17:22:04 < mouseghost> aandrew, does that 1ms/100ms timer thing have a name?
2021-01-21T17:22:41 < aandrew> "event loop" ? I don't know
2021-01-21T17:22:45 < aandrew> it's a very very primitive event loop
2021-01-21T17:23:03 < mouseghost> hm, im a bit confused as to how one uses such thing /me thinking
2021-01-21T17:23:05 < aandrew> the ISR (or anything) sets these event flags, and the main loop checks for them and executes differently based on their state
2021-01-21T17:23:17 < aandrew> what is confusing about it?
2021-01-21T17:23:30 < mouseghost> oh, now i understand :D
2021-01-21T17:25:48 < fenugrec> An interesting method I've seen used (ECU firmware) but not tried myself: ISR maintains a bunch of 8 or 16-bit timers, decrementing each every X ms until they reach 0. User code only needs to check for ==0 to check expiry, and reload timer for next event
2021-01-21T17:26:57 < aandrew> fenugrec: interesting. that's similar but gives the main loop (or whatever's checking the timer) the capability to modify the time as it sees fit
2021-01-21T17:28:02 < zyp> that's pretty clever
2021-01-21T17:28:37 < zyp> hmm, actually no
2021-01-21T17:28:38 < fenugrec> Only drawback is the # of instruction cycles to decrement all the timers - the firmware I've seen has hundreds of timers, so they can't run them at super fine resolutions
2021-01-21T17:28:56 < zyp> yeah, and it's also polling anyway
2021-01-21T17:29:25 < zyp> you could just as well have only a single upcounting counter
2021-01-21T17:29:39 < zyp> and then all the checks could just poll it and check against a deadline
2021-01-21T17:30:07 < fenugrec> they must've considered it cheaper to do than having a (current_time - lasttime) > tdelta) everywhere
2021-01-21T17:30:52 < zyp> does it have a saturating subtract then, or do you need to branch for every single decrement to stop at 0?
2021-01-21T17:31:02 < fenugrec> let me pull up the disasm
2021-01-21T17:32:01 < zyp> hmm, I believe cortex-m has a simd saturating subtract, so you could technically have it decrement four 8-bit counters at once
2021-01-21T17:33:41 < jpa-> cortex-m4f at least has that
2021-01-21T17:33:42 < fenugrec> Superh has no such thing. They loop over every timer
2021-01-21T17:33:55 < zyp> jpa-, I meant m4 :)
2021-01-21T17:35:13 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-21T17:35:44 < zyp> I just realized that I can do async sleep in the same manner as my old blocking sleep code
2021-01-21T17:38:15 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/os/time.h#n28 <- like this, just with coroutine yield instead of thread yield
2021-01-21T17:38:58 < zyp> and I should also fix the calculation so it handles wraps :)
2021-01-21T17:40:56 < zyp> but that's for later, today I'm dicking around with fixing some optimization issues
2021-01-21T17:42:07 < zyp> turns out my old peripheral register reference stuff is not optimizing well, because standard says reinterpret_cast is not constexpr
2021-01-21T17:43:50 < zyp> storing a intptr_t instead of a reference, and casting it when accessing it solves that
2021-01-21T17:46:12 < zyp> I found a pattern I like, only issue is that GDB doesn't see the operator overloads
2021-01-21T17:48:21 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/JR8fb
2021-01-21T17:48:59 < zyp> ignore line 35, also lines 39 on are just for testing/legacy compat
2021-01-21T17:50:04 < zyp> this works well except https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Gq4am
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2021-01-21T17:59:06 < zyp> https://sourceware.org/gdb/onlinedocs/gdb/Xmethods-In-Python.html <- I guess I could use xmethods to handle the operators
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2021-01-21T18:03:56 < zyp> that actually looks perfect :)
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2021-01-21T18:09:06 < kakium13> zenbook is to retire now
2021-01-21T18:09:21 < kakium13> I found the replacement
2021-01-21T18:09:34 < kakium13> dell xps13 7390
2021-01-21T18:13:45 < kakium13> got it for a bit over 600e
2021-01-21T18:14:49 < kakium13> first I had new one for around 900e and then I returned it without opening the box and took a customer returned unit and money in change
2021-01-21T18:16:53 < qyx> I expect you to change the fan in a year or so
2021-01-21T18:17:24 < qyx> my sister is doing it for the second time now on xps13
2021-01-21T18:17:30 < t4nk_freenode> heh
2021-01-21T18:18:03 < t4nk_freenode> the whole reason I 'lost' my first beamer.. was the fact that I never cleaned the dust filter ;)
2021-01-21T18:18:08 < t4nk_freenode> that's not funny btw ;)
2021-01-21T18:19:49 < kakium13> qyx: a fan that never operates fails?
2021-01-21T18:20:11 < kakium13> actually I heard it once to spin up
2021-01-21T18:27:44 < kakium13> https://doc-0o-84-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/qs8blbca6r3ppptsmsf73bi3k2olmec2/vqm3h9g7po80q0hct42ap8d02hi7vebb/1611246375000/05249220379248348842/11367212181832510663Z/1auVKQM-o9Q7NanqGJ3B5dmWb8M2GrmbZ?e=view&nonce=djjaomhjvdluc&user=11367212181832510663Z&hash=sdchm3bcqc5s9lootkf64oo2cp7g0ptb
2021-01-21T18:28:26 < kakium13> we went crazy
2021-01-21T18:29:57 < englishman> HP 34420A damaged in transport (╬▔皿▔)╯
2021-01-21T18:31:15 < fenugrec> as long as its not declared as "Toy/Gift, value 1.00$"
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2021-01-21T18:43:40 < qyx> I am super curious if china PCBs arrive sooner than mouser or TME
2021-01-21T18:45:26 < qyx> I ordered aisler too on Jan 12., they didn't even respond to my mail
2021-01-21T18:46:31 < qyx> china PCBs were ordered on Jan 17., they are already shipped
2021-01-21T18:47:55 < t4nk_freenode> there is a change imminent, concerning import fees, right?
2021-01-21T18:48:14 < t4nk_freenode> I believe it is set for june or juli this year
2021-01-21T18:56:52 < Steffanx> Sores?
2021-01-21T18:59:08 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, .... would you do me a favor? ... could you please give me permission to waste money on a beamer? might you tell me "it's ok"?
2021-01-21T18:59:40 < Steffanx> Do as you like. You dont need my permission 
2021-01-21T18:59:55  * t4nk_freenode wipes his sweaty hands
2021-01-21T18:59:56 < t4nk_freenode> :|
2021-01-21T19:01:30 < englishman> are you in UK or something
2021-01-21T19:02:39 < t4nk_freenode> no, dutch
2021-01-21T19:05:02 < englishman> ordered jlcpcb friday. shipped monday. already in usa. could get it tomorrow but more likely next monday
2021-01-21T19:05:06 < englishman> can't complain
2021-01-21T19:05:11 < englishman> for $3
2021-01-21T19:06:34 < t4nk_freenode> so I guess import fees will apply for jlcpcb soon too
2021-01-21T19:07:53 < Steffanx> They already apply...
2021-01-21T19:09:05 < t4nk_freenode> at least in holland, still, there is a lower limit of 22euro below which there are no extra fees
2021-01-21T19:09:34 < t4nk_freenode> this lower limit was set to be abolished starting this year, but has been postphoned till july
2021-01-21T19:13:05 -!- kakium13 [3e71bfb7@62-113-191-183.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2021-01-21T19:13:31 < Lux> afaik it was posponed to mid 2021
2021-01-21T19:13:43 < Lux> *postponed
2021-01-21T19:14:16 < t4nk_freenode> lol, I actually wrote postphoned ;)
2021-01-21T19:14:33 < t4nk_freenode> they rung em up, afterwards!
2021-01-21T19:14:51 < Lux> maybe with covid even later
2021-01-21T19:15:13 < Lux> ah yeah you allready wrote that =)
2021-01-21T19:15:50 < Lux> at least in the big picture it's a good thing, less junk from china sent to the eu
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2021-01-21T19:21:48 < t4nk_freenode> I actually quite like them there highly explosive cheap, cheap chinese voltage regulators :b
2021-01-21T19:29:15 < t4nk_freenode> I ordered!! *sigh* .. beamer on the way, I shall speak no more of this.
2021-01-21T19:33:01 < mawk> polite persons do not say beamer
2021-01-21T19:36:49 < mawk> BrainDamage: https://pad.serveur.io/
2021-01-21T19:36:59 < Steffanx> We dutchies day beamer 
2021-01-21T19:37:09 < mawk> you shouldn't
2021-01-21T19:37:24 < Steffanx> You shouldn't 
2021-01-21T19:38:08  * t4nk_freenode shakes his fist in anger from behind Steffanx's broad shoulders
2021-01-21T19:38:41  * t4nk_freenode points laughingly at mawk again
2021-01-21T19:38:44 < BrainDamage> mawk: nice
2021-01-21T19:39:14  * qyx trying esp32
2021-01-21T19:39:23 < qyx> as per englishman recommendation
2021-01-21T19:43:30 < englishman> can't go wrong
2021-01-21T19:43:43 < englishman> #import <entire_project>
2021-01-21T19:43:45 < englishman> done
2021-01-21T19:43:59 < zyp> import?
2021-01-21T19:44:30 < englishman> or include or whatever you happen to copypaste that day
2021-01-21T19:44:41 < zyp> :)
2021-01-21T19:49:31 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-21T19:49:57 < zyp> the toolchains espressif provides are only gcc 8?
2021-01-21T19:53:50 < mawk> Steffanx: so dutch aren't polite
2021-01-21T19:53:52 < mawk> QED
2021-01-21T19:53:55 < zyp> I was thinking now that I'm putting in a bunch of work making laks not assume cortex-m, it wouldn't be too hard to add support for xtensa as well, but that assumes there's a decent enough toolchain available
2021-01-21T19:54:18 < mawk> xtensa is esp32?
2021-01-21T19:54:22 < zyp> yes
2021-01-21T19:54:31 < mawk> traitor
2021-01-21T19:54:43 < mawk> there is only one brand of chip ending with 32 you swore allegiance to
2021-01-21T19:54:57 < zyp> meh :)
2021-01-21T20:12:14 < englishman> espressif has toolchains? it works in tarduino
2021-01-21T20:12:22 < englishman> #include <wifi.h>
2021-01-21T20:12:54 < englishman> don't need to deal with .c/.h just put everything in a single .h and done
2021-01-21T20:13:01 < englishman> professional programming
2021-01-21T20:14:02 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://github.com/nothings/single_file_libs
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2021-01-21T20:58:37 < Steffanx> I can say Pardon every time,  mawk.. 
2021-01-21T20:59:32  * emeb abandons old-n-busted STM32 in favor of the new hotness that is RP2040.
2021-01-21T21:02:25 < mawk> lol
2021-01-21T21:06:50 < emeb> put down that C compiler - from now on we do everything in PIO assembly!
2021-01-21T21:07:01 < emeb> Or Python
2021-01-21T21:07:59 < Steffanx> I know you're not even kidding emeb
2021-01-21T21:08:15 < Steffanx> Germans make no jokes.
2021-01-21T21:09:48  * emeb forgot the sartalics
2021-01-21T21:12:24 < Steffanx> Lol emeb I never heard of sartalics before
2021-01-21T21:13:31 < emeb> Steffanx: in this community we learn from each other
2021-01-21T21:19:54 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/h34jF
2021-01-21T21:21:26 < emeb> dafuq is dat?
2021-01-21T21:21:41 < Steffanx> risc-v
2021-01-21T21:22:29 < zyp> that's not really the point, the point is mmio_ptr
2021-01-21T21:23:23 < Steffanx> ok
2021-01-21T21:24:08 < Steffanx> > C++ magic because they kinda deprecated "volatile"
2021-01-21T21:24:18 < zyp> no, this is unrelated to that
2021-01-21T21:24:57 < Steffanx> lol then ill stop guessing why you post random code
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2021-01-21T21:25:24 < zyp> I talked about this earlier today
2021-01-21T21:25:57 < zyp> the thing is that current laks is using this pattern: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/spi/spi.h
2021-01-21T21:26:06 < zyp> SPI_reg_t& reg;
2021-01-21T21:26:28 < zyp> with the constructor doing a *(SPI_reg_t*) cast, which is effectively a reinterpret_cast
2021-01-21T21:26:53 < Ultrasauce> using c casts in c++, ishygddt
2021-01-21T21:28:04 < zyp> the problem with that is that reinterpret_cast is not constexpr according to the standard, so the constructor is also not a proper constant expression, which results in the compiler not being able to fold this properly
2021-01-21T21:28:36 < zyp> instead it reserves memory to store the reference and puts some shit in the initializer list to actually run the constructor
2021-01-21T21:30:16 < Ultrasauce> sounds like you've just punted the various int -> ptr pitfalls to another place
2021-01-21T21:30:29 < Ultrasauce> maybe the peripheral addresses belong in the linker script?
2021-01-21T21:30:36 < zyp> kinda, yes
2021-01-21T21:30:53  * antto deploys an ear
2021-01-21T21:31:20 < antto> zyp, on avrgcc i use references to SFRs
2021-01-21T21:31:36 < antto> unfortunately, they don't wurk on armgcc
2021-01-21T21:31:37 < zyp> the thing is that by moving the cast to the actual register access, the compiler is able to properly inline and fold the entire expression
2021-01-21T21:32:11 < antto> i'm wurking on a similar thing right now btw
2021-01-21T21:32:27 < antto> https://pastebin.com/dP0GjMK6
2021-01-21T21:32:29 < zyp> see https://godbolt.org/z/exb5P7
2021-01-21T21:35:21 < antto> why not uintptr_t tho?
2021-01-21T21:36:19 < zyp> good point, I didn't consider there were both signed and unsigned versions of it
2021-01-21T21:36:35 < antto> here's what my sh*t looks like so far: https://pastebin.com/Fv6R9C2k
2021-01-21T21:36:54 < zyp> looks like pointless template use, I don't want that
2021-01-21T21:37:19 < antto> u have too high standards
2021-01-21T21:37:26 < zyp> thans
2021-01-21T21:37:33 < antto> i don't know wut i'm doing ;P~
2021-01-21T21:37:46 < antto> but i haz much constexpr and template ;P~
2021-01-21T21:37:55 < antto> i feeeeeel like a h4x0r
2021-01-21T21:37:59 < antto> almost
2021-01-21T21:38:33 < zyp> also, here's the gdb magic to make the operators work: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/fkYLY
2021-01-21T21:38:57 < antto> o_O
2021-01-21T21:39:02 < antto> wut is this even
2021-01-21T21:39:11 < zyp> could probably be written better, but it's the first time I'm using the xmethod stuff, and it works
2021-01-21T21:40:27 < antto> shouldn't you be testing this on armgcc btw
2021-01-21T21:40:36 < antto> it gives different instructions
2021-01-21T21:40:42 < antto> if you happen to speek ASMish
2021-01-21T21:41:11 < zyp> some of the stuff I tested used C++20 features and godbolt doesn't have gcc 10 for arm yet
2021-01-21T21:41:28 < antto> ahumz
2021-01-21T21:41:35 < antto> i'm on 7.3.x still
2021-01-21T21:41:45 < zyp> but anyway, it's effectively the same: https://godbolt.org/z/3bna5M
2021-01-21T21:42:07 < zyp> x86 is CISC so every write is a single instruction
2021-01-21T21:42:47 < zyp> whereas arm uses three instructions to set up the values I write, one to set up the address and three to actually write the three different values
2021-01-21T21:45:14 < zyp> riscv gcc also produces seven instructions that's fairly equivalent to the arm ones, just ordered differently
2021-01-21T21:45:59 < antto> so you're hiding the pointer sh*t into a template object
2021-01-21T21:46:19 < zyp> yeah, and only storing the intptr
2021-01-21T21:46:19 < antto> and this allows it to be optimized out
2021-01-21T21:47:36 < antto> on avrgcc you can just declare a reference at address xyz and it's constexpr
2021-01-21T21:48:00 < antto> why don't they add this to armgcc
2021-01-21T21:48:02 < antto> >:/
2021-01-21T21:51:39 < antto> your sizeof(FOO_t) is 4, but that's not the register itself, it's the intptr_t, isn't it?
2021-01-21T21:52:24 < zyp> yes
2021-01-21T21:52:43 < antto> :/
2021-01-21T21:52:54 < zyp> why?
2021-01-21T21:53:21 < antto> will that end up sitting in RAM or something?
2021-01-21T21:53:46 < zyp> no, the whole point of this way of doing things is to avoid that
2021-01-21T21:57:50 < antto> last time i've fiddled with similar things, i've left this template:
2021-01-21T21:57:55 < antto> template<typename T, uintptr_t a> constexpr T& as_declare_sfr() { return *reinterpret_cast<T*>(a); }
2021-01-21T21:58:32 < antto> but i don't remember wut happened ;P~
2021-01-21T22:03:12 < zyp> it doesn't work, reinterpret_cast is not constexpr
2021-01-21T22:03:39 < zyp> apparently gcc had a bug where it didn't enforce it earlier
2021-01-21T22:04:07 < antto> oh?
2021-01-21T22:05:10 < antto> i generally wish a mechanism to position variables or references at specific addresses becomes available from the language itself
2021-01-21T22:05:29 < antto> <optimism.jpg>
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2021-01-21T22:54:25 < zyp> adapted my largest peripheral driver to use mmio_ptr: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?id=94d1f1a
2021-01-21T22:54:28 < zyp> seems to work well
2021-01-21T22:55:17 < antto> i'm not entirely happy with writing -> all the time
2021-01-21T22:55:20 < antto> . is easier
2021-01-21T22:55:38 < zyp> fair
2021-01-21T22:55:47 < zyp> on the other hand, -> is easier than .reg.
2021-01-21T22:55:59 < antto> no way
2021-01-21T22:56:55 < antto> hm, so much bitshifts there
2021-01-21T22:57:17 < antto> no bitfields?
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2021-01-21T23:52:18 < karlp> well, usb ports on mobo still work. one port on one hub seems to be dead.
2021-01-21T23:52:25 < karlp> but.. ethernet is getting link?!
2021-01-21T23:53:06 < karlp> and 2 out of 3 usb wifi adapaters didn't work either, yay
--- Day changed Fri Jan 22 2021
2021-01-22T00:18:56 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-01-22T00:49:43 < mawk> I shorted bitcoin, I made 20€ so far
2021-01-22T00:50:00 < mawk> +2.5% performance
2021-01-22T00:50:18 < mawk> and counting the leverage I used, +10% performance
2021-01-22T00:50:20 < mawk> I put 200€ in it
2021-01-22T00:50:37 < qyx> karlp shorted mains, he probably made -20 €
2021-01-22T00:50:42 < mawk> lol
2021-01-22T00:52:16 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210121235212914.png
2021-01-22T00:52:52 < mawk> I short sold 0.03 btc at 26k€, now it's 25.2k€
2021-01-22T00:53:07 < mawk> so when it's low enough I buy the 0.03 back, give them to the guy I borrowed from
2021-01-22T00:53:10 < mawk> and keep the price difference
2021-01-22T00:54:44 < Steffanx> Fuck buttcoin
2021-01-22T00:55:15 < mawk> $$$
2021-01-22T00:55:19 < mawk> you're jealous of my 20€
2021-01-22T00:55:26 < mawk> soon to become 20000000€
2021-01-22T00:56:57 < qyx> so I downloaded esp-idf, it doesn't work
2021-01-22T00:57:08 < qyx> "yeah in case you no git, download this zip"
2021-01-22T00:57:10 < qyx> thanks, downloading
2021-01-22T00:57:14 < Steffanx> Im not even close to jealous. I wonder if zyp can finally buy himself a coffee with the buttcoin I gave him 
2021-01-22T00:57:24 < qyx> "oh sorry, esp-idf must be git repo, fukoff"
2021-01-22T00:57:52 < mawk> git init
2021-01-22T00:58:04 < mawk> fake the git
2021-01-22T00:58:51 < qyx> oh fuk it does indeed have .gitignore, .gitmodules and stuff
2021-01-22T00:58:53 < qyx> .git is missing
2021-01-22T01:01:27 < englishman> mawk: I'm up 150% on a local graphite company
2021-01-22T01:01:43 < englishman> up 35% on blackberry of all companies
2021-01-22T01:01:54 < mawk> lol blackberry
2021-01-22T01:01:57 < mawk> what are they doing today?
2021-01-22T01:02:03 < englishman> selling IP
2021-01-22T01:03:42 < qyx> my LTE is doing 12/20 mbit now, maybe I am able to use git clone
2021-01-22T01:04:09 < Steffanx> I was going to see if I had any buttcoim left, but I forgot the password of the wallet service mawk. Too bad
2021-01-22T01:04:16 < mawk> lol
2021-01-22T01:04:23 < mawk> you should've had private key backups
2021-01-22T01:04:26 < mawk> and not use a service
2021-01-22T01:04:34 < mawk> I can git clone for you qyx 
2021-01-22T01:04:39 < mawk> if you give me the remote
2021-01-22T01:04:53 < Steffanx> Fuck no mawk. Download and verify the entire chain?!
2021-01-22T01:05:08 < mawk> you don't have to do that
2021-01-22T01:05:24 < Steffanx> Fuck did I know back then. Lol
2021-01-22T01:05:47 < Steffanx> And there is a 12 word backup key, but... what 12 words? 
2021-01-22T01:05:48 < mawk> but anyway you can in any case backup your private key
2021-01-22T01:05:51 < mawk> to restore your account anyway
2021-01-22T01:05:55 < mawk> yeah it's the mnemonic
2021-01-22T01:05:57 < qyx> lol
2021-01-22T01:06:00 < mawk> that you have memorizd or written down somewhere
2021-01-22T01:06:28 < Steffanx> My memory doesn't go back to 2017
2021-01-22T01:06:54 < mawk> which branch do you want qyx ?
2021-01-22T01:07:04 < mawk> v4.2 is fine?
2021-01-22T01:07:31 < qyx> cloned already
2021-01-22T01:07:37 < qyx> but thanks
2021-01-22T01:07:52 < qyx> I was not able to pass 20% few hours ago
2021-01-22T01:08:05 < qyx> at 180 KB/s
2021-01-22T01:08:27 < mawk> a
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2021-01-22T02:03:12 < qyx> works
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2021-01-22T03:37:13 < qyx> hm, there are none mipi csi-2 to lvcmos deserializers?
2021-01-22T03:37:31 < qyx> except STMIPID02 which is unobtainium
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2021-01-22T04:48:59 < qyx> re: talk about .fr laws and Dec 31., https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/21/france-passes-sensory-heritage-law-after-plight-of-maurice-the-noisy-rooster
2021-01-22T05:57:41 < emeb_mac> Grumble... STM32F730 has a USB HS PHY on-chip, but it requires an extra pin for an external 3k reference resistor and that pin is only available on the lqfp144 and UBGA packages.
2021-01-22T05:58:13 < emeb_mac> so no HS PHY on the lqfp64 R package.
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2021-01-22T06:49:50 < Hermitude> i got all excited when i heard that the F4 series supported USB HS but only a few devices even have the HS PHY :(
2021-01-22T06:52:30 < Hermitude> it always felt like 12Mbps -> 480Mbps was too big a gap and that they should have had a 80Mbps specification in between
2021-01-22T06:53:57 < Hermitude> then you wouldn't as often need a complicated MPU device to access a decent camera
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2021-01-22T10:03:20 < Hermitude> you haven't lived until you've label-wrapped 22ga wires individually with a 9mm p-touch label maker
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2021-01-22T10:37:55 < mawk> lol qyx 
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2021-01-22T12:03:10 < zyp> the f730 ufba176 doesn't look all that awful though, 
2021-01-22T12:05:10 < zyp> it's a depopulated 15x15 0.65mm pitch footprint, four rings and gnd island in center
2021-01-22T12:07:31 < zyp> you're not gonna be putting vias between the pads with cheap specs, but outer two rings can be routed out on top layer alone and gets you 104 balls, and there's enough room for vias between the rings and the center island
2021-01-22T12:08:54 < zyp> requires 4/4 specs to route between the pads, so it should be doable on jlcpcb 4L
2021-01-22T12:10:03 < zyp> could be doable on 2L as well if you only need the outer ring, might need to route power across some signal pads in that case
2021-01-22T12:11:14 < zyp> but for a design with few enough signals to fit in a qfp64, getting the necessary signals routed on the ufbga176 should be feasible
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2021-01-22T14:10:33 < Steffanx>  awh, there goes one of laurenceb's favourite projects https://blog.x.company/loons-final-flight-e9d699123a96?gi=1217fbd51797
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2021-01-22T14:27:09 < englishman> ahaha
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2021-01-22T14:51:15 < Steffanx> my condolences Laurenceb 
2021-01-22T14:51:24 < Laurenceb> what for?
2021-01-22T14:51:35 < Steffanx> The death of the loon project
2021-01-22T14:51:46 < Laurenceb> huh
2021-01-22T14:51:59 < Laurenceb> oh
2021-01-22T14:52:06 < Laurenceb> well that was daft
2021-01-22T14:52:30 < Laurenceb> google is pretty much over at this point anyway
2021-01-22T14:52:43 < Jak_o_Shadows> As long as gmail sticks around
2021-01-22T14:52:53 < Laurenceb> their "self driving cars" arent going anywhere and all their shit is a javascript abomination
2021-01-22T14:53:01 < Laurenceb> maps is pwnd by openstreetmap
2021-01-22T14:53:20 < Laurenceb> but wasting so much money on loon then cancelling it is stupid
2021-01-22T14:53:38 < Laurenceb> they probably said starlink destroys the business case or something silly
2021-01-22T14:53:52 < Laurenceb> would be nice to be able to grab all their test data...
2021-01-22T14:55:14 < Laurenceb> > many people in rural areas couldn't afford the 4G phones that Loon required
2021-01-22T14:55:32 < Laurenceb> way more affordable than starlink terminals tho lol
2021-01-22T14:56:02 < Laurenceb> I was thinking, you could prob fairly easily modify a starlink terminal into a high spec phased array radar
2021-01-22T14:56:26 < Laurenceb> >WATCH: Timnit Gebru accuses Google and the wider tech sector of institutional racism
2021-01-22T14:56:29 < Laurenceb> wtf BBC
2021-01-22T14:56:39 < Laurenceb> >cancelling loon is literally the KKK
2021-01-22T14:59:09 < Jak_o_Shadows> "fairly easily" and "phased array radar" probably don't go together I think
2021-01-22T14:59:33 < Laurenceb> Jak_o_Shadows: the point is spacex did the hard work
2021-01-22T15:00:01 < Jak_o_Shadows> Does anybody know where they are actually digitising?
2021-01-22T15:00:06 < Laurenceb> the starlink antenna seems to have rx and tx transmission lines then a load of digitally controlled phase shifters
2021-01-22T15:00:19 < Laurenceb> with some sort of interface bus (spi?)
2021-01-22T15:00:37 < Jak_o_Shadows> The beamwidth was sensible wasn't it
2021-01-22T15:00:44 < Laurenceb> so if you could decode the interface and solder some GNU radio/whatever hardware on...
2021-01-22T15:00:58 < Laurenceb> Jak_o_Shadows: you dont need massive bandwidth for a radar
2021-01-22T15:01:18 < Jak_o_Shadows> beamwidth, not bandwidth
2021-01-22T15:01:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> through, what sort of bandwidth are you thinking?
2021-01-22T15:01:27 < Laurenceb> oh sorry I canna read
2021-01-22T15:01:42 < Laurenceb> you just need enough to track the doppler
2021-01-22T15:02:20 < Jak_o_Shadows> ehhhhhh
2021-01-22T15:02:39 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-01-22T15:04:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> Figure out the Doppler you'd get on a theoretical starlink-powered radar
2021-01-22T15:04:41 < Jak_o_Shadows> It'd be less than the bandwidth of it for sure, because the comms side has to deal with a bit of doppler from leo
2021-01-22T15:05:00 < Laurenceb> >The band that Starlink uses to beam down internet signals takes up a sizable chunk of frequencies from 10.7 to 12.7 gigahertz
2021-01-22T15:05:08 < Laurenceb> thats more than enough bandwidth
2021-01-22T15:05:14 < Jak_o_Shadows> No arguments there
2021-01-22T15:05:19 < Laurenceb> >from leo
2021-01-22T15:05:37 < Laurenceb> I'm talking about buying a $500 ground terminal for hacking
2021-01-22T15:05:52 < Laurenceb> the price is insane
2021-01-22T15:06:03 < Laurenceb> no way they are building it that cheaply
2021-01-22T15:06:10 < Jak_o_Shadows> I meant that on the comms side, the doppler shift you get is more than any radar
2021-01-22T15:06:30 < Jak_o_Shadows> Also, I agree that the price is insane, but I do wonder how subsidised the price is
2021-01-22T15:06:40 < Jak_o_Shadows> If they're building lots...
2021-01-22T15:07:18 < Laurenceb> yeah it must be subsidised
2021-01-22T15:07:38 < Jak_o_Shadows> Half? 1 quarter?
2021-01-22T15:07:55 < Jak_o_Shadows> I wonder if the PCB is anything much special
2021-01-22T15:08:00 < Jak_o_Shadows> like the substrate
2021-01-22T15:08:01 < Laurenceb> but if they make their own phase shift ics
2021-01-22T15:08:14 < Laurenceb> it could prob be <$1k to manufacture I bet
2021-01-22T15:08:27 < Jak_o_Shadows> Imagine reverse engineering the phase shift IC's
2021-01-22T15:08:28 < Laurenceb> phase shifter ics from AD etc are clearly overpriced imo
2021-01-22T15:08:44 < Jak_o_Shadows> Just how to drive them I mean
2021-01-22T15:09:13 < Jak_o_Shadows> I mean, a VNA is the most obvious, but there's probably some interference trick to make it cheaper
2021-01-22T15:09:33 < Laurenceb> i'd imagine the phase shifters are digitaly controlled
2021-01-22T15:26:59 < qyx> zyp: jlpcb is 5/5 afaik
2021-01-22T15:27:46 < zyp> 5/5 for 2L, 3.5/3.5 for 4L/6L
2021-01-22T15:27:59 < Laurenceb> impressive
2021-01-22T15:30:35 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-22T15:31:08 < zyp> for some reason gd32vf103 got USART0, USART1, USART2 where stm32f103 got USART1, USART2, USART3 respectively
2021-01-22T15:32:32 < zyp> do I keep the stm32 names to keep source compatibility, or do I use the gd32v names? :p
2021-01-22T15:32:35 < Laurenceb> lol Rpi tried to make a microcontroller
2021-01-22T15:32:42 < Laurenceb> >dual core M0
2021-01-22T15:32:49 < zyp> yeah, we talked about that yesterday
2021-01-22T15:32:58 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides, not quite as retarded as XMOs but close
2021-01-22T15:33:21 < Laurenceb> M0 was barely good enough to run babbyshake sensors in real time
2021-01-22T15:33:39 < Laurenceb> but dual core M0 will make it faster and easily to program right
2021-01-22T15:33:45 < Laurenceb> >3 ADC inputs
2021-01-22T15:33:46 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-22T15:34:08 < Laurenceb> this thing is pwn'd by F103
2021-01-22T15:34:35 < zyp> depends what you're gonna do
2021-01-22T15:34:49 < zyp> but yeah, I also don't see any big advantage over stm32
2021-01-22T15:35:13 < zyp> IMO it doesn't look terrible, but it doesn't look remarkable either
2021-01-22T15:36:04 < qyx> zyp: o_O great
2021-01-22T15:36:52 < qyx> maybe I didn't check properly
2021-01-22T15:37:29 < Laurenceb> STM32MP1 looks really nice tbh
2021-01-22T15:37:40 < Laurenceb> multicore done right
2021-01-22T15:38:06 < Laurenceb> two cores under lunix then the ST supported OpenAMP interface to the M4
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2021-01-22T15:39:04 < Laurenceb> pity the GPU seems a bit poor in benchmarks, but then... embedded GPU is a bit crazy
2021-01-22T15:39:12 < zyp> I figure the only things a dual M0+ would be useful for is if you wanna dedicate a core to low latency stuff or perhaps some stuff where you want to run two distinct software stacks in parallel
2021-01-22T15:39:14 < Laurenceb> also maybe the lunix drivers suck
2021-01-22T15:39:32 < zyp> e.g. a monitor core and a core that runs user software or some shit
2021-01-22T15:40:21 < zyp> could run a monitor thing that does usb and whatever on one core and load up user firmware on the other, which doesn't have to worry about blocking the comm stack
2021-01-22T15:40:44 < zyp> similar idea as having a dedicated core for the radio stack in stm32wb and nrf53
2021-01-22T15:40:58 < Laurenceb> but if you write proper multithreaded or interrupt driver state machines it shouldnt be an issue anyway
2021-01-22T15:41:07 < Laurenceb> *driven
2021-01-22T15:42:01 < Laurenceb> crapillary refill managed everything on an M3
2021-01-22T15:42:45 < zyp> if you have a closed source blob like the nrf softdevice then I prefer having it on a separate core instead of having to do a lot of bullshit to co-manage interrupts and threads with it
2021-01-22T15:42:57 < Laurenceb> if you turned on all the DSP filtering then connected it to the gui over bluetooth and mashed the buttons the gui would run slow but the dsp continued as it was higher priority
2021-01-22T15:43:10 < Laurenceb> ah yeah ok if you have binary blobs I guess
2021-01-22T15:43:17 < zyp> much easier with a defined IPC interface
2021-01-22T15:44:09 < zyp> doesn't have to be binary blobs either, just any two software stacks that makes different assumptions about who is responsible for scheduling
2021-01-22T15:45:04 < zyp> with interrupts and threads you also have to start worrying about priorities at some point
2021-01-22T15:45:25 < zyp> so there are definitively uses for multicore stuff
2021-01-22T15:45:35 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-01-22T15:45:38 < zyp> I just don't see a lot of them for that mcu in particular
2021-01-22T15:45:48 < Laurenceb> I bet the floating point performance is atmega tier
2021-01-22T15:46:01 < zyp> meh
2021-01-22T15:46:09 < Laurenceb> atmega floating point was actually suprisingly fast tbh
2021-01-22T15:46:27 < zyp> a M0+ that is 4x wider and 10x faster should easily outperform it :p
2021-01-22T15:46:28 < Laurenceb> like ~150clocks/floating point MAC
2021-01-22T15:47:33 < zyp> why is that surprising? a floating point multiply is just integer multiply and shift
2021-01-22T15:47:43 < Laurenceb> I guess
2021-01-22T15:48:00 < Laurenceb> it was better than 8051 and PIC iirc
2021-01-22T15:49:15 < zyp> I believe if you've got a single cycle integer multiplier, you can actually do FP mul faster than FP add
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2021-01-22T16:09:20 < mouseghost> systick experience 11/10
2021-01-22T16:09:21 < mouseghost> so far
2021-01-22T16:30:51 < englishman> Laurenceb>	google is pretty much over at this point anyway
2021-01-22T16:30:58 < englishman> google> $162 billion revenue
2021-01-22T16:31:30 < Laurenceb> >revenue is a demarker of future success
2021-01-22T16:35:17 < englishman> p much yeah
2021-01-22T16:35:18 < Laurenceb> https://i.ibb.co/qNLGPnv/image.jpg
2021-01-22T16:38:10 < englishman> hmm someone used CD74HC4067 in a design with negative voltages
2021-01-22T16:38:20 < englishman> that spec was hidden in plain sight
2021-01-22T16:38:23 < englishman> not the greatest datasheet ever written
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2021-01-22T17:07:25 < aandrew> zyp: this is Make:r stuff; how many people do you know from that group who can design and build a single core system that runs correctly, and now you're gonna throw two cores at them?
2021-01-22T17:07:51 < zyp> that's part of why I figure monitor applications might be useful
2021-01-22T17:08:08 < zyp> run a usb stack with gdbserver and whatever on one core and user application on the other -- user can't fuck up usb coms
2021-01-22T17:08:10 < aandrew> it'll be interesting to see what comes out from the chip, but I'm not interested in using it
2021-01-22T17:08:46 < zyp> it'll be kinda like those arduinos that had one atmega for user code and another atmega to do usb-serial
2021-01-22T17:28:36 < mawk> aandrew raspberry pi likes taking random chips to make their socs, so maybe they put that extra core just because it was there to begin with
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2021-01-22T18:19:15 < jpa-> aandrew: well, for arduino-level people it is easier to run completely separate stuff on second core, than trying to multitask on a single one
2021-01-22T18:19:31 < jpa-> or, the horror, use interrupts or dma - that sounds like black magic
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2021-01-22T18:34:26 < effractur>  Show me what you can do!
2021-01-22T18:34:33 < effractur> wrong window
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2021-01-22T18:47:35 < karlp> that had clearly been in progress for  ages though
2021-01-22T18:47:48 < karlp> lots of vendors all announcing their partner products all available already
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2021-01-22T19:37:24  * t4nk_freenode puts on his tuxedo, for shortly his 'package' will be delivered.. by Bike!
2021-01-22T19:39:06 < Steffanx> You mean you speedo, t4nk_freenode ?
2021-01-22T19:39:21 < t4nk_freenode> heh, in the extra day I procrastinated before ordering... price dropped 50euros!
2021-01-22T19:39:59 < t4nk_freenode> I ordered with Coolblue...got a mail that someone would bring the beamer by bike ;)
2021-01-22T19:40:09 < Steffanx> Fancy 
2021-01-22T19:40:22 < t4nk_freenode> crazy huh? hehe almost like a pizza
2021-01-22T19:41:15 < t4nk_freenode> I'm not too far from an actual shop, maybe that's why
2021-01-22T19:47:14 < Steffanx> Time to doxx 
2021-01-22T19:55:02 < karlp> ok, moboreplacement, ethernetworks again, new keyboard too.
2021-01-22T19:55:22 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, stop making me look up words on the internet.
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2021-01-22T19:55:52 < t4nk_freenode> and to be quite frank...
2021-01-22T19:56:03 < t4nk_freenode> what I saw when I looked up 'speedo'... 
2021-01-22T19:56:12 < t4nk_freenode> I did not. not, like ;)
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2021-01-22T19:57:04 < Steffanx> Not going to fix your das keyboard karlp ?
2021-01-22T19:58:10 < karlp> considering just giving aliexpress my id details
2021-01-22T19:58:22 < karlp> but yeah, will order the hub ic and try and repair it that way
2021-01-22T19:58:31 < karlp> I really do like having the usb hub built in,
2021-01-22T19:58:41 < karlp> but I'm not going to buy a whole new one 
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2021-01-22T20:04:48 < mawk> I went on-site fix a server, in Utrecht
2021-01-22T20:05:11 < mawk> it's on public premises in the janitor room of the train station
2021-01-22T20:05:25 < mawk> I didn't even tell which company I work for, the janitor let me in and welcomed me like his own son
2021-01-22T20:05:32 < mawk> served me some tea and so on
2021-01-22T20:05:36 < mawk> physical security 0
2021-01-22T20:05:47 < machinehum> Nice
2021-01-22T20:06:04 < mawk> he's moroccan so he speaks french too, that helped
2021-01-22T20:06:06 < machinehum> You should have pretended you were pentesting them and gave them an F
2021-01-22T20:06:10 < mawk> but he still didn't ask company
2021-01-22T20:06:13 < mawk> lol
2021-01-22T20:06:14 < mawk> poor guy
2021-01-22T20:06:17 < mawk> he was so friendly
2021-01-22T20:06:25 < mawk> he had his prayer carpet in the server room
2021-01-22T20:06:30 < Steffanx> Alright. Ill remember that mawk
2021-01-22T20:06:35 < mawk> lol
2021-01-22T20:06:40 < Steffanx> Ill give him your name and company name
2021-01-22T20:06:45 < mawk> just speak french and he'll let you in
2021-01-22T20:06:57 < Steffanx> And say oui oui. Omelette du fromage
2021-01-22T20:07:04 < Steffanx> Pardon
2021-01-22T20:07:29 < mawk> he speaks better than you sorry
2021-01-22T20:07:49 < Thorn> je ne croix pas
2021-01-22T20:08:12 < t4nk_freenode> and me? beau bon jolie, haut long petit... jeune vaste grand, vieuw mauvais méchant...
2021-01-22T20:08:15 < t4nk_freenode> premier.. dernier :b
2021-01-22T20:08:25 < t4nk_freenode> that was all the way from secondary school!
2021-01-22T20:08:32 < machinehum> You guys gonna get the new raspberry pi mcu or what?
2021-01-22T20:09:38 < mawk> you don't cross Thorn ?
2021-01-22T20:09:50 < mawk> ✝️
2021-01-22T20:10:37 < machinehum> lol
2021-01-22T20:10:59 < mawk> no machinehum 
2021-01-22T20:11:18 < machinehum> lame
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2021-01-22T20:21:59 < Laurenceb> lol thedonald.win has shut down
2021-01-22T20:22:07 < Laurenceb> looks like they got tired of losing
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2021-01-22T20:28:44 < bitmask> MOCA to the rescue!
2021-01-22T20:34:27 < Streaker> https://patriots.win/
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2021-01-22T21:39:49 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/maddogspaz/status/1335378439809937410
2021-01-22T21:46:12 < Laurenceb> ^typical trump supporter
2021-01-22T21:46:14 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-55257183
2021-01-22T21:46:16 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-01-22T21:51:53 < antto> zyp, i fiddled with something similar to your mmio thing, the dot operator is not overloadable
2021-01-22T21:52:04 < zyp> well duh
2021-01-22T21:52:04 < antto> i thought it was
2021-01-22T21:52:38 < antto> i don't know the rules ;P~
2021-01-22T21:53:25 < zyp> I merged a bunch of code using it, I think it turned out reasonably nice: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/nvic.h?h=dev_v2
2021-01-22T21:56:03 < Laurenceb> >Dr Baele, a senior lecturer in politics and adviser to the UK Parliament, is regarded as a leading expert on incels and wrote a report for prosecution lawyers.
2021-01-22T21:56:03 < Laurenceb> >In his report, Dr Baele wrote that incels post on websites like Reddit
2021-01-22T21:57:04 < antto> zyp, here's what i sploshed together: https://godbolt.org/z/75cTTh
2021-01-22T22:00:54 < zyp> the problem with putting the address in the template is that it becomes a part of the type, so each instance ends up being a different type
2021-01-22T22:00:57 < englishman> are prox ii HID cards 125KHz?
2021-01-22T22:00:59 < englishman> can they be cloned?
2021-01-22T22:01:04 < englishman> i don't know anything about non-NFC stuff
2021-01-22T22:02:13 < antto> ah, if i have 4 identical timers, each instance would be a unique instance due to the address being different
2021-01-22T22:02:40 < zyp> correct, and then you can't pass the reference of it to a function without having to also template the function
2021-01-22T22:03:09 < antto> then the uintptr_t can be moved to constructor
2021-01-22T22:03:14 < antto> but it'd have to be remembered
2021-01-22T22:03:29 < zyp> obviously
2021-01-22T22:04:34 < antto> i heard that the C++ $bosses have been asked around about adding some way to make constexpr references or pointers
2021-01-22T22:04:57 < zyp> what do you mean? you can
2021-01-22T22:05:53 < zyp> my NVIC object gets instanced like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/x0cJH
2021-01-22T22:05:59 < antto> <redi> they agree it would be useful, somebody needs to do the work to make it happen
2021-01-22T22:06:43 < zyp> I'm also making SCB a global, and I'm making interrupt_ctl an alias of NVIC
2021-01-22T22:07:04 < antto> i don't know what those are
2021-01-22T22:07:12 < antto> i know NVIC
2021-01-22T22:07:37 < zyp> the point of the latter is that user code can do interrupt_ctl.enable(interrupt::irq::USART1); without knowing what kind of interrupt controller it's being built for
2021-01-22T22:07:54 < zyp> if I switch to building for gd32v, it does interrupt_ctl = CLIC; instead
2021-01-22T22:09:12 < antto> the question to redi was whether there's some hack for gcc, no matter how ugly, to sneak in a constexpr int as a constexpr pointer or reference
2021-01-22T22:09:32 < zyp> ah
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2021-01-22T22:10:05 < antto> <redi> no. but it's something I've discussed with people on the C++ committee, because it would be useful
2021-01-22T22:10:27 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-22T22:10:33 < antto> it'd be best if this kinda functionality comes straight from the language
2021-01-22T22:10:52 < zyp> IMO it's kinda silly reinterpret_cast can't be a constexpr
2021-01-22T22:10:52 < antto> no compiler-specific hacks, no fiddling with linker
2021-01-22T22:11:46 < antto> avrgcc (and maybe a few other gcc flavors) has attribute address which allows you to directly declare a reference at an address
2021-01-22T22:11:50 < zyp> there were apparently a rationale that that would break some other rules in certain situations
2021-01-22T22:11:57 < zyp> yeah, but fuck that
2021-01-22T22:13:17 < antto> i will take that risk ;P~
2021-01-22T22:14:02 < antto> perhaps the other idea i had was..
2021-01-22T22:14:26 < antto> iirc you can position a section with linker arguments..
2021-01-22T22:14:49 < antto> doing this for every SFR or every periph is "hell no"
2021-01-22T22:14:56 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-22T22:15:08 < zyp> I mean, you could emit symbols in the linker script
2021-01-22T22:15:43 < antto> but if you can make a big struct containing instances of all the periphs and SFRs with padding so that its structure reflects the memory structure - then you'd only need to position one instance of this big struct.. with linker arguments
2021-01-22T22:16:30 < zyp> I'm already moving towards defining all peripheral addrs in yaml, so it wouldn't be too hard to just create a linker script with a bunch of symbol definitions from that
2021-01-22T22:16:47 < zyp> but I don't want that either
2021-01-22T22:17:26 < zyp> constexpr wrappers are useful, particularly for peripherals with multiple memory areas
2021-01-22T22:17:48 < antto> yeah.. i went to write an svd parser and i was thinking i'd probably have to generate linker script too, then i might as well generate chip specific one with all the periphs and SFRs positioned from the linker script
2021-01-22T22:17:59 < zyp> e.g. a usb controller with some control registers here and a buffer memory there
2021-01-22T22:18:12 < zyp> I already do generate the linker script
2021-01-22T22:18:30 < antto> i haven't finished the parser
2021-01-22T22:18:41 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts/generated.ld.j2?h=dev_v2
2021-01-22T22:19:35 < antto> if you position each periph struct from here, it's gonna get huge
2021-01-22T22:19:53 < Steffanx> Who cares when its auto-generated? ;)
2021-01-22T22:20:36 < antto> there's some elegance to having one common linker script for a bunch of chips, instead of individual ones
2021-01-22T22:21:06 < zyp> well, I had that before too: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/ld_scripts
2021-01-22T22:21:17 < zyp> only individual part is the MEMORY section
2021-01-22T22:51:50 < srk> antto: what's SFR?
2021-01-22T22:52:16 < antto> "speshul file register" .. whatever that means
2021-01-22T22:52:36 < zyp> not special function register?
2021-01-22T22:52:44 < antto> or was it that
2021-01-22T22:52:47 < antto> i don't remember
2021-01-22T22:53:04 < antto> speshul FUMFINFUMFIN register ;P~
2021-01-22T22:53:13 < srk> very
2021-01-22T22:54:38 < antto> now i'm trying to make an empty/dummy class, which doesn't make the compiler warn about unused
2021-01-22T22:59:00 < antto> success ;P~
2021-01-22T23:05:14 < t4nk_freenode> beamer is Ok, sitting here in eco+ mode, every light in the house is on... still got a crisp and sharp picture
2021-01-22T23:06:40 < t4nk_freenode> I wasn't immediately 643% enthusiastic... but all in all the difference with the cheapo chinese thingy is huge
2021-01-22T23:08:29 < t4nk_freenode> ah yeah, and I honestly cannot hear the fans in this eco mode
2021-01-22T23:09:40 < t4nk_freenode> will have to mount it on the ceiling I'm afraid, no lens shift
2021-01-22T23:09:56 < mawk> how do you call this device?
2021-01-22T23:10:08 < t4nk_freenode> das ist doch ein Bimmer, gel?
2021-01-22T23:10:17 < t4nk_freenode> a BeAmEr
2021-01-22T23:10:21 < mawk> no
2021-01-22T23:10:22 < t4nk_freenode> because it Beams light
2021-01-22T23:10:23 < mawk> wrong
2021-01-22T23:10:25 < mawk> 0
2021-01-22T23:10:52 < t4nk_freenode> so what should we scum of the earth call it then, Sir?
2021-01-22T23:11:08 < mawk> projector
2021-01-22T23:12:37 < t4nk_freenode> I bought an lcd projector once.. it was an alarm clock that shone on the wall.
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2021-01-22T23:13:06 < mawk> you got scammed by chinese with long teeths
2021-01-22T23:13:06 < t4nk_freenode> as in *cough*
2021-01-22T23:13:07 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-01-22T23:13:14 < mawk> and probably claws
2021-01-22T23:13:21 < mawk> teeth*
2021-01-22T23:13:34 < mawk> doctor finally made me the prescription Steffanx 
2021-01-22T23:13:51 < mawk> now I predict in 3 months when the prescription is over I'll be in the same mess as last weeks
2021-01-22T23:14:01 < mawk> to celebrate, I will finish all my heroin at once, wish me luck
2021-01-22T23:14:29 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, leave me a few ounces, mawk 
2021-01-22T23:14:44 < mawk> sorry it's all for my nose
2021-01-22T23:14:47 < Steffanx> dont do it mawk 
2021-01-22T23:14:53 < mawk> why?
2021-01-22T23:14:58 < mawk> I can't die, I'm immortal
2021-01-22T23:15:04 < Steffanx> arent you on methadone to get off this shit?
2021-01-22T23:15:10 < mawk> not off heroin
2021-01-22T23:15:15 < mawk> I had never took it before last week
2021-01-22T23:15:32 < mawk> and actually it's a shit drug, I expected way better of the scary monster hollywood depicted me
2021-01-22T23:15:38 < mawk> it just made me sleep and nauseous
2021-01-22T23:16:25 < mawk> 7 years ago before starting methadone I was taking morphine, tramadol, codeine, oxycodone, mainly
2021-01-22T23:17:14 < BrainDamage> all opioids
2021-01-22T23:17:19 < mawk> fentanyl also
2021-01-22T23:17:32 < BrainDamage> so heroin would still bind to the opioid receptor
2021-01-22T23:18:03 < mawk> then some research chemicals such as O-desmethyltramadol, MT-45, AH-7921
2021-01-22T23:18:14 < mawk> it's because of MT-45 that I got my right arm paralyzed for a year
2021-01-22T23:18:24 < Steffanx> but isnt the whole point of methadone to in the end be done with it all?
2021-01-22T23:18:28 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-01-22T23:18:39 < mawk> but I can't waste such expensive powder
2021-01-22T23:18:46 < Steffanx> Yes you can
2021-01-22T23:18:53 < mawk> muh hard earned money
2021-01-22T23:19:16 < BrainDamage> you can always re-sell it
2021-01-22T23:19:19 < Steffanx> fuck it, flush it through the toilet and tomorrow you already forgot you did it
2021-01-22T23:19:25 < mawk> that would be illegal BrainDamage 
2021-01-22T23:19:28 < BrainDamage> i doubt you care about criminal charges at this point
2021-01-22T23:20:33 < Steffanx> Soon it will get him an extra fine, since curfew will be in effect soon
2021-01-22T23:20:52 < mawk> I will write fake work orders to be outside after curfew
2021-01-22T23:20:57 < Steffanx> but in the end the dutch curfew is a joke.
2021-01-22T23:21:04 < Steffanx> 95 euro fine.... come on.
2021-01-22T23:21:18 < mawk> even when you do it again?
2021-01-22T23:21:46 < BrainDamage> 350€ fine here
2021-01-22T23:21:52 < effractur> Steffanx: the fine is not the issue is a felony to lie on the form
2021-01-22T23:22:04 < effractur> so they can prosecute that way
2021-01-22T23:22:14 < Steffanx> yes, so you just dont make the form and go for the 95 euro
2021-01-22T23:22:15 < Steffanx> fine
2021-01-22T23:22:16 < effractur> and its just an excuse to stop everyone that is outside
2021-01-22T23:22:19 < Steffanx> which is a joke imho
2021-01-22T23:22:22 < effractur> Steffanx: yes 
2021-01-22T23:22:27 < mawk> 95€ is a lot of money
2021-01-22T23:22:31 < Steffanx> its a joke.
2021-01-22T23:22:34 < mawk> so, curfew is to keep poor people inside
2021-01-22T23:23:07 < BrainDamage> I don't understand why fines are never proportional to one's wealth
2021-01-22T23:23:39 < mawk> yeah
2021-01-22T23:23:46 < mawk> it's EqUaLiT
2021-01-22T23:23:47 < mawk> y
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2021-01-22T23:29:03 < fenugrec> 1500$ fine here
2021-01-22T23:30:06 < Steffanx> yeah, at least that hurts, a lot.
2021-01-22T23:30:34 < mawk> 15×joke = hurts a lot
2021-01-22T23:30:40 < mawk> steffarithmetic
2021-01-22T23:30:47 < Steffanx> For most people
2021-01-22T23:32:29 < Steffanx> Sure, I wouldnt laugh about 95, but would also be... ill take the risk. Its only 95
2021-01-22T23:32:49 < Steffanx> If its > 1k euro I'll think about it twice 
2021-01-22T23:34:47 < Steffanx> For you over 30000 is normal, 95 is a lot. Mawk logic
2021-01-22T23:35:37 < mawk> yes 30k€ is classified as natural disaster, you can't do anything about it
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2021-01-22T23:58:50 < mawk> Steffanx: https://youtu.be/XpDcU-yRQVc
2021-01-22T23:59:06 < Steffanx> Yeah no
--- Day changed Sat Jan 23 2021
2021-01-23T00:00:05 < zyp> more fuckery: https://godbolt.org/z/s7ov48
2021-01-23T00:00:58 < zyp> (the rcc stuff)
2021-01-23T00:03:24 < zyp> not sure I like it, vs just sticking stuff into the wrapper class itself
2021-01-23T00:04:55 < mawk> what you will like is my pandemonium trax
2021-01-23T00:05:27 < zyp> advantage is that wrapper class doesn't need to know about the metadata I attach to it like that, so metadata can have weird types without affecting wrapper class
2021-01-23T00:13:32 < karlp> mawk: in all my site visits, I've had maybe one place actualyl properly check who we were.
2021-01-23T00:14:11 < mawk> nice
2021-01-23T00:14:18 < karlp> one time we were let in by one person, (who knew us) and then security was later called by someone else, because they'd seen three men walk into the disabled toilet together, with briefcases, and they didn't recognize any of us
2021-01-23T00:14:29 < karlp> that was fun opening the door for the security dude :)
2021-01-23T00:16:01 < karlp> zyp: hat set_priority using c++ functions to do the shpr/ipr split is cute.
2021-01-23T00:16:04 < karlp> nie example of c++
2021-01-23T00:16:30 < zyp> that's been in laks since forever, same as my old rcc_enable :)
2021-01-23T00:19:29 < karlp> t4nk_freenode: so, what's the "nice" projector you have now? and what was the "not nice" one you hda earlier?
2021-01-23T00:20:43 < karlp> we had zero new covid cases yesterday, whee
2021-01-23T00:20:46 < aandrew> I got a real shitty kid's projector but it might work nicely for a kind of status screen: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B081S37791
2021-01-23T00:21:08 < aandrew> easy to take apart, real simple design, hoping I can just drive the panel with an stm32 and either wifi or ethernet
2021-01-23T00:24:04 < t4nk_freenode> heh, karlp, around 2k8 I had a Sanyo plv z5, that one was sweet and had it all (@720p) except the lumens
2021-01-23T00:24:53 < karlp> I onl care about the two you're recently talking about
2021-01-23T00:24:56 < t4nk_freenode> last year I tried a VANKYO Performance V630, led beamer. I was excited about the amount of light it produced, but I couldn't live with >150ms input lag
2021-01-23T00:24:58 < karlp> not dead unobtainum
2021-01-23T00:25:12 < t4nk_freenode> it's not unobtainium, fiy
2021-01-23T00:25:23 < t4nk_freenode> I saw one a few days back, almost bought it ;)
2021-01-23T00:25:34 < karlp> I'm not buying a 2008 720p projector today. no way
2021-01-23T00:25:39 < Steffanx> So what did you get from coolblue?
2021-01-23T00:25:49 < aandrew> t4nk_freenode: how much did that thing cost
2021-01-23T00:26:09 < t4nk_freenode> nehow, I got an optoma eh400 now
2021-01-23T00:26:11 < aandrew> looks about CAD$250
2021-01-23T00:26:36 < t4nk_freenode> when I got it, it was close to 300euro's even, the vankyo that is
2021-01-23T00:27:12 < t4nk_freenode> would have kept it, if not for the input lag
2021-01-23T00:27:13 < Steffanx> That one is like 750 euro bucks -_-
2021-01-23T00:28:31 < t4nk_freenode> howEver... this 750 bucks one.. has much, much better picture quality; I'm currently sat at an angle from the screen and I can clearly read the entire desktop.... with the vankyo I was constantly moving windows around to get a clearer peep ;)
2021-01-23T00:33:14 < t4nk_freenode> so.. cheap led 'projectors'.. nah, theyaren't quite there yet.
2021-01-23T00:33:52 < t4nk_freenode> this new one is pretty ok, though I will need to mount it onto the ceiling
2021-01-23T00:34:19 < t4nk_freenode> so if you got a few extra bucks to spare, fgs go for a projector with decent lens shift
2021-01-23T00:35:54 < zyp> are projectors even worth it nowadays?
2021-01-23T00:36:16 < zyp> I mean, for particular uses, sure, but in general
2021-01-23T00:36:37 < t4nk_freenode> 75inch was around 1keuro
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2021-01-23T00:37:29 < t4nk_freenode> but 75" just isn't 120" like I'm having in my current setup, nor is it 300" ;)
2021-01-23T00:38:01 < t4nk_freenode> 1k for a 75" tv of course
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2021-01-23T00:38:49 < zyp> true, I see 6k NOK for 70" and 10k NOK for 75"
2021-01-23T00:39:39 < zyp> but still, why? :)
2021-01-23T00:40:01 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I wasn't even thinking about the higher resolution of those tv's of course. Though 4k projectors are here already
2021-01-23T00:40:50 < t4nk_freenode> fetish I think, zyp ;) I've been messing around building my own projectors from overhead projectors and stuff
2021-01-23T00:41:15 < t4nk_freenode> and I modded the sanyo and tried all sorts of alternative light sources
2021-01-23T00:41:20 < zyp> I see the point of projectors if you're building a dedicated cinema room or for holding presentations or whatever
2021-01-23T00:41:39 < zyp> but I don't see the point of having one in my living room
2021-01-23T00:42:14 < t4nk_freenode> perhaps it's also the space you save when you have it on the ceiling and project on the bare wall
2021-01-23T00:42:44 < t4nk_freenode> but... I wonder how long it will take before tv-wall-paper will hit the markets
2021-01-23T00:43:25 < zyp> I wouldn't say you're saving any significant space compared to a flat tv hanging on the wall
2021-01-23T00:53:19 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, you got me with my speedos down there :b
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2021-01-23T01:06:33 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXqPYte8tvc musics from the old youtubes
2021-01-23T01:10:39 < Steffanx> Yeah kakium69 
2021-01-23T01:11:08 < Steffanx> Whats next kakium69 https://youtu.be/smE-uIljiGo?
2021-01-23T01:11:21 < kakium69> yes
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2021-01-23T02:16:29 < BrainDamage> found mawk's house https://r.omcat.info/gallery/RDdfNYt
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2021-01-23T02:26:03 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-01-23T02:54:38 < zyp> anybody know if anybody made a table of peripheral version overlap between different stm32 families?
2021-01-23T02:55:05 < zyp> if not, anybody wanna help me make one?
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2021-01-23T02:57:45 < fenugrec> locm3 indirectly has some of that information in the headers
2021-01-23T02:59:49 < zyp> yeah, I just figured it might be useful to put it in a table
2021-01-23T03:00:36 < fenugrec> not sure if even st internally has that kind of high-quality data heh
2021-01-23T03:00:56 < zyp> currently refactoring RCC code and at the moment I've got this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/RJwLz
2021-01-23T03:01:22 < zyp> the f0/f1/f3 ones looks like they can be combined
2021-01-23T03:02:40 < fenugrec> even the odd almost-compatible  f303/f302 depending if he 6th character of the product code is odd/even ? I forget the details
2021-01-23T03:03:13 < zyp> f303.e :)
2021-01-23T03:03:46 < zyp> it's got v2 of the usb core instead of v1, unsure what other differences there are
2021-01-23T03:04:54 < fenugrec> yeah. That one.
2021-01-23T03:05:32 < zyp> that is also one of the situations my yaml description stuff is designed to handle
2021-01-23T03:05:50 < fenugrec> you couldn't parse SVDs because .. ?
2021-01-23T03:06:00 < zyp> because fuck that
2021-01-23T03:06:27 < fenugrec> I see
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2021-01-23T03:09:15 < fenugrec> ah yes. I may actually have written this paragraph https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/commit/e121243ce20b688f0cd11e5280ca968656e3d414#diff-dbe68772e05e855f137ad4e885385dd904435aca17ed1d87333b3bf8ff3afb14R23
2021-01-23T03:10:51 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/JrkX3 <- I can do something like this in my descriptions
2021-01-23T03:12:28 < fenugrec> I don't look at your pastes anymore, too much esoteric c++ P )
2021-01-23T03:12:44 < zyp> that's not c++ at all :p
2021-01-23T03:12:52 < fenugrec> promise ?
2021-01-23T03:13:21 < fenugrec> oh that's your defs format, ok
2021-01-23T03:13:24 < zyp> the reason I'm not parsing svds is twofold; first of all I don't want to maintain a third party dependency on SVD files that might be of varying quality and I don't want to edit them myself to fix problems
2021-01-23T03:14:14 < zyp> and secondly I don't need all the information in them, I only need the offsets for each peripheral
2021-01-23T03:14:19 < fenugrec> third-party... doesn't st provide SVDs ??
2021-01-23T03:14:54 < zyp> I'm aiming to support more than just stm32 :)
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2021-01-23T03:15:11 < fenugrec> I understand your point of not wanting to parse huge formats, but if it's as good as upstream can provide, surely that beats manual entry everytime
2021-01-23T03:16:33 < zyp> well, I'm still able to generate my yaml from svd if I want to
2021-01-23T03:16:58 < zyp> in which case I only need to do it once per family, and then just maintain the generated yaml
2021-01-23T03:18:36 < zyp> I'm not ruling out doing that in the future, but the problem I'm working on now is generating useful stuff out of definitions
2021-01-23T03:27:08 < GenTooMan> hmm is there a group that handles ATSAMxxx series? uchips documentation is ... terrible
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2021-01-23T03:35:29 < qyx> so where do I get cheap emmc?
2021-01-23T03:35:30 < qyx> ali?
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2021-01-23T06:13:36 < machinehum> SD cards
2021-01-23T06:13:40 < machinehum> Just fucking solder em down
2021-01-23T06:13:47 < machinehum> I think there
2021-01-23T06:13:54 < machinehum> There is actually some chinese way to do that
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2021-01-23T11:22:21 < karlp> ahhh, looking for new usb hubs, keep seeing crap with horrible a-a abuses: https://www.banggood.com/X150-9-Port-USB-Hub-Power-Supply-Expansion-Board-for-Raspberry-Pi-p-1356604.html
2021-01-23T11:26:31 < Steffanx> In this can I can see the point.. 
2021-01-23T11:26:52 < karlp> kinda 
2021-01-23T11:27:37 < karlp> this one though, no reason: https://www.banggood.com/ORICO-MH4PU-USB3_0-4-Ports-Monitor-Table-Clip-type-HUB-For-PC-Mac-p-1226371.html
2021-01-23T11:27:52 < karlp> and there's another monitor clamp one with different mechanics, that still uses an a-a cable
2021-01-23T11:29:18 < karlp> thinking of just putting maybe two of these in, to get from the pc under the desk up to the desk nicely, and give nice points to plug in mor ehubs there if need be. https://www.banggood.com/WDX-Desktop-USB-3_0-Hub-Multi-Function-Docking-Station-SD-TF-Card-Reader-Headset-MIC-Port-Extender-Transmission-Charging-Splitter-p-1794688.html
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2021-01-23T11:34:04 < PaulFertser> How's your own hub karlp, did I miss your "tweets"?
2021-01-23T11:37:38 < PaulFertser> It's interesting why would they want to use a cable that's apparently harder to obtain, as A-A is not standard and thus should be more expensive. There must be some reason far that, but what can it be?
2021-01-23T11:57:00 < zyp> I guess A plugs are somehow cheaper
2021-01-23T11:57:28 < zyp> doesn't matter A-A is not standard when china has made it a defacto standard
2021-01-23T11:59:01 < jpa-> could also be that USB3 micro-b is stupid, full-size B is large and USB-C didn't exist back when those were designed
2021-01-23T11:59:10 < zyp> true
2021-01-23T11:59:24 < zyp> also USB-C needs the orientation mux for usb3
2021-01-23T11:59:49 < PaulFertser> The latter is the most convincing point heh
2021-01-23T12:00:26 < jpa-> i wonder how common will be "USB-C, but one way only" devices
2021-01-23T12:12:48 < antto> bluh, "side-effects"
2021-01-23T12:12:50 < antto> https://godbolt.org/z/MrEr9j
2021-01-23T12:26:33 < zyp> well, duh
2021-01-23T12:26:40 < zyp> there's no reason on() should be constexpr
2021-01-23T12:27:35 < jpa-> it should turn on the led already when the code is compiled
2021-01-23T12:27:46 < antto> oh.. u know i went in and painted everything with constexpr ;P~
2021-01-23T12:28:00 < zyp> a constexpr is a function that should fold into a value
2021-01-23T12:28:02 < jpa-> what's the point of noexcept there?
2021-01-23T12:28:12 < zyp> your on() function should fold into a register write
2021-01-23T12:28:17 < antto> jpa-, no idea, copy-pasted sh*t from cppreference
2021-01-23T12:28:21 < zyp> haha
2021-01-23T12:30:34 < antto> when compiler explorer shows the asm instructions being part of the Pin method on(), instead of the "led1.on();" line in main(), does that mean it isn't getting inlined?
2021-01-23T12:31:03 < zyp> no
2021-01-23T12:31:54 < jpa-> that's just debugging info
2021-01-23T12:35:54 < antto> one part of me wants templated pins.. for when your program is doing just one thing and you don't change pin directions at runtime.. you can then get compile-time error (static_assert) if you accidentally give an input pin to a LED
2021-01-23T12:37:08 < antto> on the other hand, that's limiting.. if you wanna do fancier things at runtime
2021-01-23T12:37:26 < antto> maybe the solution is to just do both things
2021-01-23T12:40:28 < antto> when everything is constructor arguments, i can't even check if the pin number is wrong..
2021-01-23T12:41:04 < antto> unless i use an enum class for the pin number
2021-01-23T12:41:08 < zyp> you can't either way
2021-01-23T12:41:20 < antto> i can when it's a template
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2021-01-23T12:41:47 < zyp> check against what?
2021-01-23T12:42:05 < antto> i mean, ignoring the fact that certain variants of the chip don't have some pins from some ports
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2021-01-23T12:42:26 < antto> i mean basic checking that the pin number is less than 32, coz there are not more than 32pins on a port
2021-01-23T12:42:46 < zyp> why does that matter?
2021-01-23T12:43:22 < jpa-> do you really make that mistake often enough to be worth a check?
2021-01-23T12:43:27 < antto> because it's a place where an error could happen
2021-01-23T12:43:40 < antto> jpa-, yes, i'm declaring the pins i use in main.cpp
2021-01-23T12:43:44 < zyp> the only way to avoid errors is to avoid writing code
2021-01-23T12:43:49 < jpa-> considering there are 31 other numbers that are valid and would give worse problems than specifying a clearly invalid number
2021-01-23T12:43:58 < zyp> yes
2021-01-23T12:44:03 < antto> that's true
2021-01-23T12:44:48 < antto> maybe there's a way to build a LUT at compile time with the allocated pins and catch a collision
2021-01-23T12:45:15 < zyp> but why
2021-01-23T12:45:18 < antto> that would be another limitation tho
2021-01-23T12:45:55 < antto> i don't know, i think i fried the data pin on this audio codec because incorrect pin direction on the cortex
2021-01-23T12:45:59 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/ebike-controller/blob/master/src/board.h#L68   i like the table form, of course one can mess it up also but it is pretty compact and easy to read even when there is a lot of pins
2021-01-23T12:46:21 < antto> i don't wanna use the atmel pin code.
2021-01-23T12:47:02 < antto> jpa-, that's the plan.. one-line pin declaration
2021-01-23T12:47:10 < antto> so you can see them all
2021-01-23T12:48:26 < antto> oh, that's preprocessor crap
2021-01-23T12:49:02 < jpa-> it's C, all the way down to macro hell
2021-01-23T12:49:17 < zyp> :)
2021-01-23T12:49:50 < antto> C coders should wake up
2021-01-23T12:49:55 < antto> it's 2021
2021-01-23T12:50:14 < antto> but that's another story ;P~
2021-01-23T12:51:25 < jpa-> yeah, why use a simple and predictable language when there are now two competitors for the most complex to use language on the planet
2021-01-23T12:51:45 < antto> hm?
2021-01-23T12:52:03 < jpa-> (rust is taking up c++'s lead in complexity pretty fast)
2021-01-23T12:53:07 < jpa-> (i'm now expecting a rebuttal "c++ is not complex" from a person who copypastes random keywords from cppreference)
2021-01-23T12:53:48 < zyp> :D
2021-01-23T12:54:10 < antto> C++ is complex
2021-01-23T12:54:25 < antto> gives you many ways to do a given thing
2021-01-23T12:54:38 < antto> plus some other sh*t.. compared to C
2021-01-23T12:54:53 < antto> no idea bout this rust sh*t
2021-01-23T12:55:24 < antto> i didn't choose C++ btw
2021-01-23T12:56:00 < jpa-> is "shit" the only negative adjective you know but your mother told you not to say it?
2021-01-23T12:56:07 < antto> it's not like i decided to become a code-butcherer one day, and i opened a glossy catalog(ue) of programming languages to pick one
2021-01-23T12:57:08 < antto> jpa-, you know engrish isn't my native language?
2021-01-23T12:58:26 < jpa-> bad for you, all other people on this channel are native english speakers
2021-01-23T12:58:49 < antto> except englishman
2021-01-23T12:59:26 < antto> constexpr void englishman() const yesexcept {}
2021-01-23T13:04:51 < Steffanx> Damn, time to get some vitamin D jpa- 
2021-01-23T13:05:31 < antto> maybe baseclasses can be one way to make input and output pins specifically
2021-01-23T13:05:39 < jpa-> Steffanx: will it make antto better?
2021-01-23T13:06:30 < Steffanx> Hes a lost cause, but youre not, jpa- 
2021-01-23T13:07:39 < jpa-> Steffanx: is my behavior making you anxious?
2021-01-23T13:07:51 < antto> i think he wants more diverse negative adjectives
2021-01-23T13:08:05 < antto> he's bored
2021-01-23T13:09:51 < Steffanx> Worried. jpa- 
2021-01-23T13:10:13 < antto> stop worrying bruh, iz not gud for urself
2021-01-23T13:10:31 < jpa-> Steffanx: no need, i'm just spending lazy day on irc
2021-01-23T13:10:53 < jpa-> i switched jobs from programming to cleaning this week
2021-01-23T13:11:08 < antto> wut'cha cleaning?
2021-01-23T13:11:58 < jpa-> some distant hoarder relative's appartment after they died
2021-01-23T13:12:04 < antto> std::filth, or something more worse like boost::static_filth
2021-01-23T13:12:11 < antto> oh
2021-01-23T13:12:14  * antto hides
2021-01-23T13:12:52 < jpa-> it's like oldschool video games, just instead of extra ammo and bigger guns, you find extra soap and longer window sweeper
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2021-01-23T13:14:33 < Steffanx> Oh dear. Cleaning another ones appartement. The joy.
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2021-01-23T14:28:25 < antto> https://godbolt.org/z/nT3W3M
2021-01-23T14:28:47 < antto> i made a sketchy pin.set() method
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2021-01-23T14:58:39 < Steffanx> thanks antto 
2021-01-23T15:01:37 < Steffanx> The most sketchy thing is you calling the class IPin mr antto .
2021-01-23T15:01:44 < Steffanx> and its not an interface.
2021-01-23T15:01:47 < antto> why?
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2021-01-23T15:01:55 < antto> input pin
2021-01-23T15:02:03 < antto> i suck at naming things ;P~
2021-01-23T15:02:54 < antto> i'm also wurking with all of the auto-generated codez being visible
2021-01-23T15:03:33 < Steffanx> Because IWhatever is often used for interfaces. So i thought you made some Pin interface ;)
2021-01-23T15:06:31 < antto> nah
2021-01-23T15:06:50 < antto> a pin class so u can declare ur pinz
2021-01-23T15:06:57 < antto> with namez
2021-01-23T15:07:12 < antto> led5.toggle();
2021-01-23T15:08:02 < antto> instead of gpio_set_pin_level(out1, 1);
2021-01-23T15:10:36 < Steffanx> reinterpret_cast<TR*>(&(port().OUTCLR))[v&1] = mask(); yeah
2021-01-23T15:12:14 < antto> looks confoozing?
2021-01-23T15:14:28 < Steffanx> its wonderful, its great
2021-01-23T15:15:25 < antto> change the #if 1 to 0 to see how it should be normally
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2021-01-23T15:27:53 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/Xgg1yuI.png
2021-01-23T15:28:59 < mouseghost> antto, not vim D:
2021-01-23T15:29:15 < antto> do i look like a h4x0r to u?
2021-01-23T15:29:39 < Steffanx> yes
2021-01-23T15:29:43 < antto> pls
2021-01-23T15:29:51 < antto> fix ur eyeballz then
2021-01-23T15:29:51 < Steffanx> 4:3 haxor confirmed
2021-01-23T15:30:52 < mouseghost> antto, yes 
2021-01-23T15:31:01 < antto> u too
2021-01-23T15:31:06 < mouseghost> i use vim
2021-01-23T15:31:08 < mouseghost> B)
2021-01-23T15:31:13 < antto> ur a h4x0r then
2021-01-23T15:31:46 < mouseghost> :a \ start this.bat \ goto a
2021-01-23T15:31:58 < mouseghost> in this vidya were going to make a computer virus
2021-01-23T15:32:02 < mouseghost> in notepad
2021-01-23T15:32:24  * antto unplugz teh internet hose
2021-01-23T15:35:13 < mouseghost> i have to bring my internet in a bucket from the city centre :/ antto
2021-01-23T15:35:45 < antto> bring two buckets, one in each arm
2021-01-23T15:36:26 < antto> this way u gon b moar balanced when u walk, and u got 1 spare bucket of precious internetz for the bad times
2021-01-23T15:37:10 < antto> fill jars with thicc internet concentrate, for the winter
2021-01-23T15:38:23 < mouseghost> reminded me of "butter's creamy goo"
2021-01-23T16:07:05 < kakium69> I went to QHD 165hz finally
2021-01-23T16:08:16 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-01-23T16:08:23 < kakium69> maintaining +100ppi
2021-01-23T16:14:00 < kakium69> +100srgb
2021-01-23T16:14:36 < kakium69> nowdays contrast seems to be far higher around 1:2500
2021-01-23T16:15:04 < kakium69> before 1:1000 was like good or so
2021-01-23T16:15:26 < kakium69> static contrast
2021-01-23T16:15:41 < Steffanx> qhd kakium69 
2021-01-23T16:16:03 < kakium69> yes I'm in modern days now
2021-01-23T16:16:31 < kakium69> WQHD*
2021-01-23T16:17:00 < Steffanx> modern world already went for 4k
2021-01-23T16:17:10 < Steffanx> real fancy world went for 8k
2021-01-23T16:17:22 < kakium69> no... no no no
2021-01-23T16:17:29 < kakium69> I'm modern
2021-01-23T16:17:45 < Steffanx> 4k crt?
2021-01-23T16:18:44 < kakium69> I also has curved panel
2021-01-23T16:21:23 < Steffanx> Did you get your NAS up and running yet in the mean time mr kakium69 ?
2021-01-23T16:22:10 -!- kakium69 [b237d4a9@178-55-212-169.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
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2021-01-23T16:22:38 < kakium69> nas is heating my lab yes
2021-01-23T16:24:23 < Steffanx> incl. your faulty hba?
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2021-01-23T16:26:06 < Steffanx> or was it incompatible.. i dont remember
2021-01-23T16:27:50 < kakium69> kinda imcompatible
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2021-01-23T16:30:16 < kakium69> it had sluggish performance in the system
2021-01-23T16:30:28 < kakium69> totally unusable rather
2021-01-23T16:32:15 < kakium69> apparently a flaw of bridge configuration
2021-01-23T16:35:47 < jadew> https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/dfc9cea4-137b-440f-aa8c-5a16d7cb4f4d
2021-01-23T16:36:12 < Steffanx> 2018, come on jadew 
2021-01-23T16:36:25 < jadew> you knew about that?
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2021-01-23T17:24:56 < englishman> https://github.com/T-head-Semi/aosp-riscv
2021-01-23T17:24:57 < englishman> neato
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2021-01-23T17:26:11 < karlp> PaulFertser: my own hub is still non-functional, sitting at the office.  not sure what to do next, just try stencilling better or what.
2021-01-23T17:26:33 < karlp> also, ti's usb2 only, which is great for what it wsa buitl for, but for rebuilding my desk, I want some usb 3 ports around.
2021-01-23T17:28:03 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@70.39.102.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-01-23T17:35:02 < mawk> BrainDamage if x+y+z=1, x²+y²+z²=2, x³+y³+z³=3, how much is x⁵+y⁵+z⁵=5 ?
2021-01-23T17:35:07 < mawk> quite funny problem
2021-01-23T17:35:21 < mawk> sorry, how much is x⁵+y⁵+z⁵ = ?
2021-01-23T17:35:32 < mawk> it's probably not 5
2021-01-23T17:35:52 < mawk> I find 6 but I'm not sure
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2021-01-23T17:40:19 < Steffanx> x^4+y^4+z^4= ?
2021-01-23T17:41:37 < antto> i'd ask wxMaxima
2021-01-23T17:42:11 < karlp> PaulFertser: pulling apart some of thehubs I burnt here recently, it was also fun to see that the usb3 traces werematched, but the usb2 traces were just yolod in.
2021-01-23T17:42:22 < mawk> you don't get that one Steffanx 
2021-01-23T17:42:30 < mawk> but I found 5+1/6
2021-01-23T17:42:41 < mawk> 4+1/6 sorry
2021-01-23T17:43:44 < mawk> antto the trick is finding what xy+xz+yz and xyz are
2021-01-23T17:44:12 < antto> i don'd schprachen ze mathz well
2021-01-23T17:44:23 < Steffanx> But you can give me the answer right?
2021-01-23T17:45:06 < mawk> I gave it Steffanx 
2021-01-23T17:45:08 < mawk> 4+1/6
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2021-01-23T17:52:37 < karlp> PaulFertser: also considering just respinning the whole thing to fit jlc's new cheaper specs
2021-01-23T17:52:39  * karlp shrugs
2021-01-23T18:01:38 < Steffanx> maybe outsource it to mr q yx. He's fast ;)
2021-01-23T18:01:47  * qyx ordered a board with USB2660
2021-01-23T18:02:09 < qyx> I see you Steffanx 
2021-01-23T18:02:27 < qyx> now I have 0% productivity
2021-01-23T18:06:36 < karlp> what's that, dual sd cards?
2021-01-23T18:07:07 < qyx> sd bridge + hub combo
2021-01-23T18:07:31 < karlp> usb2640 is on one of our products, seems to be the same but with one sd card supported instead of 2
2021-01-23T18:08:17 < qyx> or maybe it is 2640?
2021-01-23T18:08:39 < qyx> lazy to check
2021-01-23T18:11:22 < Steffanx> better utilize the 8051 8-bit microprocessor
2021-01-23T18:12:07 < qyx> haha
2021-01-23T18:12:36 < qyx> regarding work, what camera chips are modern today?
2021-01-23T18:12:57 < qyx> I need something to make static pictures to monitor $workstuff during use
2021-01-23T18:13:19 < qyx> anyone did DCMI to SDRAM?
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2021-01-23T19:54:22 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/3SPls6G_d.webp?maxwidth=728&fidelity=grand
2021-01-23T20:13:28  * antto puts on his JOKE-POLICE uniform
2021-01-23T20:13:35 < antto> freeze mr jadew
2021-01-23T20:33:43 < Steffanx> " All USB7056 applications require application-specific firmware developed by Microchip support engineers"  lol the joy.
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2021-01-23T20:35:11 < jadew> huh?
2021-01-23T20:35:14 < jadew> why would that be?
2021-01-23T20:35:29 < jadew> is that so they can let you use their VID?
2021-01-23T20:35:37 < antto> https://pastebin.com/gQp46SaQ
2021-01-23T20:37:37 < Steffanx> Dont show me sercom please.
2021-01-23T20:38:00  * antto instantiates SERCOM0 to SERCOM7
2021-01-23T20:38:03 < antto> >:)
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2021-01-23T20:52:05 < jadew> man... I'm doing a layout with the new kicad, it's just great
2021-01-23T20:52:36 < jadew> looks like the 2020 lockdown had a beneficial effect on opensource
2021-01-23T20:55:26 < jadew> one more year of lockdowns and they'll drive altium out of business
2021-01-23T20:56:01 < Steffanx> lol
2021-01-23T20:56:05 < antto> how do u survive in here jadew
2021-01-23T20:57:15 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/4Wt7qG6.png
2021-01-23T20:58:10 < Steffanx> Ask mr q yx about the funny bugs he encounters
2021-01-23T20:58:16 < jadew> eh, I was joking, but it has seen some major changes
2021-01-23T20:58:31 < Steffanx> but on the other hand. dongs does nothing but complain the last few days about altium
2021-01-23T20:59:55 < jadew> colored nets alone has earned it 10 points
2021-01-23T21:00:15 < antto> meh
2021-01-23T21:00:33 < antto> unfortunately one of the features i want the most won't get into v6
2021-01-23T21:00:36 < antto> maybe v7
2021-01-23T21:00:41 < jadew> 2 more points for the fact that now you get the parameters of the graphics you're drawing, as you draw them
2021-01-23T21:00:55 < jadew> -1 point for some of the old shortcuts not working anymore
2021-01-23T21:01:05 < jadew> which feature is that?
2021-01-23T21:01:09 < antto> did u check ur hotkey settings?
2021-01-23T21:01:21 < jadew> yeah, but I don't want to break other hotkeys
2021-01-23T21:01:39 < jadew> I don't want to get used to weird shit that will never match the current version
2021-01-23T21:01:46 < antto> i want "signals" and logical splitting of nets
2021-01-23T21:02:01 < jadew> for what purpose?
2021-01-23T21:02:16 < antto> https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/5838
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2021-01-23T21:05:25 < jadew> is this about ERC only?
2021-01-23T21:05:35 < antto> no
2021-01-23T21:05:44 < jpa-> more about naming, apparently
2021-01-23T21:06:01 < antto> it's created in eeschema, afterwards it is usable in both eeschema and pcbnew
2021-01-23T21:07:07 < antto> scroll down after the pictures
2021-01-23T21:07:33 < Steffanx> Special music for antto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWOUi0PVTXw
2021-01-23T21:07:41  * antto is skeptical
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2021-01-23T21:32:18 < Steffanx> yw antto  :)
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2021-01-23T21:34:51 < jadew> I just ordered a SpyderX
2021-01-23T21:35:40 < jadew> since I switched to LED, I never had matching colors
2021-01-23T21:36:27 < jadew> CCFL was more consistent, you had monitors two years apart, turn them on and the only difference was that one was dimmer and you could fix that easily
2021-01-23T21:36:59 < antto> a wot
2021-01-23T21:37:10 < jadew> now you have to go through stupid calibration routines and when you're done, on one of them white looks red, on the other one it looks like a turkey egg
2021-01-23T21:37:16 < effractur> so like
2021-01-23T21:37:22 < effractur> just buy precalibraed monitors
2021-01-23T21:37:29 < effractur> and your problems are gone
2021-01-23T21:37:46 < antto> no
2021-01-23T21:37:46 < jadew> oh, so maybe old LCDs were calibrated?
2021-01-23T21:37:57 < antto> buy 2nd hand trash
2021-01-23T21:38:23 < effractur> jadew: depends what brand you bought and what the color accuracy was
2021-01-23T21:38:33 < effractur> but some higer end brands just calibrate there monitors
2021-01-23T21:38:49 < jadew> effractur, they were some philips, nothing special I thought
2021-01-23T21:38:50 < antto> color accuracy: <close_enough.jpg>
2021-01-23T21:39:06 < jadew> but after I got another one, I was disappointed in many ways
2021-01-23T21:39:11 < fenugrec> Hmm, I've thought of something and wondering if it's evil or flawed : say I have a bxCAN interrupt that takes frames from a software FIFO and writes to a txmailbox (if available). IRQ triggers on TX-empty, but I write the 'userland' can_send() function to set NVIC->ISPR to force the IRQ to run after adding a frame to the fifo
2021-01-23T21:39:39 < jadew> (by another one I mean non-ccfl)
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2021-01-23T21:42:53 < bitmask_> wtf is wrong with me? I always though my router only supported 802.11N but its AC, its 7-8 years old, AC has been around that long?
2021-01-23T21:43:53 < antto> no, it morphed last year into the MK3 version
2021-01-23T21:44:27 < antto> besides FW update over the air, now there's also HW upgrade
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2021-01-23T22:15:18 < zyp> 802.11ac is from 2013
2021-01-23T22:16:05 < zyp> but there's been draft hardware for a while before that
2021-01-23T22:16:16 < zyp> just like there were ax hardware before the ax standard were done
2021-01-23T22:17:17 < zyp> oh wait, the ax standard isn't done yet
2021-01-23T22:17:24 < effractur> ax is just done
2021-01-23T22:17:25 < effractur> afaik
2021-01-23T22:17:27 < zyp> «The 802.11ax standard is expected to be published in February 2021.»
2021-01-23T22:17:39 < invzim> aka wifi6?
2021-01-23T22:17:42 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-23T22:18:13 < invzim> I'll take a cat6 cable any day of the week
2021-01-23T22:18:14 < effractur> but afaik there was some discussion about making wpa3 mandatory or not
2021-01-23T22:18:28 < effractur> wifi6 is mostly nice for high density stuff
2021-01-23T22:18:32 < effractur> not really faster then ax anyway
2021-01-23T22:18:49 < effractur> but you can get like shitty IoT stuff that only uses a 2mhz band
2021-01-23T22:19:00 < bitmask_> already talking about 802.11be
2021-01-23T22:19:02 < effractur> instead of taking thw ehole 20/40mhz for a slow transfer
2021-01-23T22:20:06 < invzim> I thought wifi6 main point was using the ~6ghz band, which I don't really get as I imagine a simpel drywall would block it
2021-01-23T22:20:12 < invzim> simple
2021-01-23T22:20:25 < effractur> no that is wifi6E
2021-01-23T22:21:12 < zyp> speaking of networks, I got a new router the other day: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XeOGf.jpg
2021-01-23T22:21:51 < invzim> Ah, I was looking into that one and decided against it
2021-01-23T22:22:23 < invzim> read that the 8x1gbit ports only had a single 1gbit port lane to other stuff
2021-01-23T22:22:45 < zyp> towards the core, yeah
2021-01-23T22:22:46 < zyp> so what?
2021-01-23T22:23:00 < invzim> and presumably the 10g/optic port
2021-01-23T22:24:02 < invzim> + that it was shipped a mm from DOA from factory in regards to firmware etc :)
2021-01-23T22:24:15 < zyp> https://ubntwiki.com/_media/products/udm-pro/udmp_unofficial_block_diagram.png
2021-01-23T22:26:37 < Steffanx> What was wrong with the mikrotik?
2021-01-23T22:26:48 < invzim> yup, something like that.  Still running unifi on a mac, but would be nice to get it in an appliance
2021-01-23T22:26:55 < zyp> Steffanx, hmm? nothing is wrong with the mikrotik
2021-01-23T22:27:12 < invzim> or take the time to get up and running on docker on synology
2021-01-23T22:27:42 < zyp> the mikrotik is a switch, the new thing is a router
2021-01-23T22:27:45 < invzim> Picked up this a week ago, very happy https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-routing-switching/products/unifi-switch-8
2021-01-23T22:28:12 < invzim> when I found out it only needs poe to run
2021-01-23T22:28:17 < zyp> those are cute
2021-01-23T22:28:19 < Steffanx> So why the udm pro zyp ?
2021-01-23T22:29:51 < Steffanx> oh, nevermind.. somehow i missed your response :P
2021-01-23T22:31:06 < zyp> well, I was originally planning to get an ER-4, but then it seemed convenient to get a unifi router instead
2021-01-23T22:31:23 < zyp> and the udm pro seemed the most reasonable option
2021-01-23T22:31:45 < zyp> (and I can also run the unifi cam stuff on it later if I get some cams)
2021-01-23T22:32:37 < invzim> I may pick up the UDM once I get proper internet in the new house, for now it's 4G and no real point
2021-01-23T22:35:00 < Steffanx> Heh, except that you dont need the udm for the camera stuff at all :P
2021-01-23T22:35:32 < Steffanx> I dont recall i ever had a hdd die. I always replaced them before they died, and ... the unifi video software with 2 cameras did it in 2 months.
2021-01-23T22:35:42 < Steffanx> (must be a coincidence but .. stuff)
2021-01-23T22:35:49 < zyp> :)
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2021-01-23T22:46:22  * catphish got his job
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2021-01-23T22:47:50 < zyp> congrats
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2021-01-23T22:51:47 < fenugrec> also, could the CAN periph ever *not* succeed in entering initialization mode , if all tx mailboxes are aborted ? seems impossible
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2021-01-23T23:09:46 < jly> take it take it
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2021-01-23T23:32:10 < catphish> i don't know what the job is because my new boss is too busy to write my job description :) hopefully he gets round to it before i start on tuesday otherwise i guess i'll just do whatever i feel like :)
2021-01-23T23:54:10 < zyp> heh
2021-01-23T23:54:58 < qyx> great job
2021-01-23T23:55:17 < zyp> I should probably go sign the contract for my new job some day
2021-01-23T23:55:31 < zyp> considering I already resigned from my old :p
2021-01-23T23:58:51 < mawk> when you start working without a contract, it's automatically permanent
2021-01-23T23:58:57 < mawk> at least in NL, I think
2021-01-23T23:59:14 < karlp> Steffanx: yeah, there's references in the usb2640 and all the hub chips on how to connect the spi flash if you have your own application code for the 8051, but you clearly need to be better connected to actualyl be able to do so :)
--- Day changed Sun Jan 24 2021
2021-01-24T00:00:43 < Steffanx> Youre not referring to my quote are you karlp?
2021-01-24T00:00:58 < Steffanx> Im tempted to contact them just to see what the requirements are
2021-01-24T00:01:51 < catphish> employment law is one of the few areas of law that varies dramatically between countries
2021-01-24T00:04:43 < karlp> Steffanx: yeah
2021-01-24T00:05:10 < karlp> there's no docs anywhere I found on how to actualyl build code to run on that 8051, but there's obviously reasons for doing so...
2021-01-24T00:05:17 < karlp> whatthose are, I don't know....
2021-01-24T00:08:24 < Steffanx> This was the 7xxx family and there they actually mention it on the main product page
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2021-01-24T02:21:20 < jly> first time nigger has been posted in 2021
2021-01-24T02:41:56 < Steffanx> Yeah i guess 
2021-01-24T02:44:06 < englishman> i really messed up soldering this board
2021-01-24T02:44:09 < englishman> lit up a trace
2021-01-24T02:44:15 < englishman> i feel like such a noob
2021-01-24T02:44:17 < englishman> so ashamed
2021-01-24T02:58:13 < qyx> Thorn: any news with your stm32mp1?
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2021-01-24T03:06:52  * qyx starting another board
2021-01-24T03:07:07 < Steffanx> How englishman .. hoow?
2021-01-24T03:07:24 < englishman> horrible rosin flux, no microscope, no light
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2021-01-24T03:08:34 < qyx> so basically we have octavo SiP, the seeed SoM, somlabs SoM, MYIR SoM and one with a name I already forgot
2021-01-24T03:10:50 < qyx> the only one obtainable on mouser is octavo
2021-01-24T03:11:20 < qyx> if I am going to do octavo bga, I may as well use a raw stm32mp1
2021-01-24T03:11:26 < qyx> k, yolo
2021-01-24T03:11:34 < englishman> then you have to ddr n stuff
2021-01-24T03:11:47 < qyx> yeah, you have to start some day
2021-01-24T03:12:05 < englishman> if your goal is to learn about it, it's a good way
2021-01-24T03:12:19 < qyx> I already tried F7 with 64M sdram and it worked
2021-01-24T03:12:23 < qyx> except the linux was flaky
2021-01-24T03:12:25 < englishman> when i did it, i immediately forgot everything
2021-01-24T03:13:05 < qyx> I fear the pmic more
2021-01-24T03:14:09 < qyx> 14 output rails, wtf
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2021-01-24T04:01:35 < qyx> hm, lpddr3 is 0.65 mm pitch
2021-01-24T04:01:51 < qyx> idk if via in pad is a good idea
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2021-01-24T04:15:18 < fenugrec> englishman, no microscope ! you should know better, heh
2021-01-24T04:19:43 < englishman> yeah :( it is sitting in a box
2021-01-24T04:20:19 < englishman> did you see that fusée has 10% off after 8pm
2021-01-24T04:20:35 < englishman> so some minimum wage slave can break curfew and you can tip him 10% less
2021-01-24T04:21:16 < fenugrec> hahaha
2021-01-24T04:21:55 < englishman> essential service my ass
2021-01-24T04:24:05 < englishman> hey you wouldn't happen to know any seasoned EEs in my area looking for work would you
2021-01-24T04:44:52 < fenugrec> englishman, hmmm one I know is insanely busy, the other one ... has stuff going too I believe
2021-01-24T04:45:25 < englishman> typical
2021-01-24T04:46:47 < fenugrec> don't hire interns / students : https://ibb.co/9vNb9kR
2021-01-24T04:47:05 < englishman> yeah... we have a new one that started in dec
2021-01-24T04:48:38 < fenugrec> any good ?
2021-01-24T04:49:22 < fenugrec> apparently they don't teach which way a mosfet goes, so I wonder what exactly do they learn
2021-01-24T04:51:24 < englishman> he seems technically adept
2021-01-24T04:51:30 < englishman> but you can't talk to him
2021-01-24T04:52:09 < englishman> it's like it's the fist time he's ever left the house
2021-01-24T04:52:42 < fenugrec> hahah do you want to trade
2021-01-24T04:52:58 < englishman> heh
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2021-01-24T10:58:54 < qyx> mouser has only two lpddr3 in stock
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2021-01-24T11:31:29 < Thorn> qyx why do you need lpddr3, the eye opening is smaller with smaller signaling voltage
2021-01-24T11:32:24 < qyx> with lpddr2 the situation is not any better
2021-01-24T11:32:39 < qyx> regarding availability and size
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2021-01-24T11:37:04 < qyx> selecting lpddr2, 32bit, 4G, there is only one 533 MHz chip on mouser
2021-01-24T11:38:29 < qyx> selecting 16bit, there are none 533 MHz
2021-01-24T11:44:50 < Thorn> why lp?
2021-01-24T11:45:00 < Thorn> do you need low power consumption?
2021-01-24T11:45:56 < qyx> yeah, thats the main reason I am doing that, even suspending the cortex-a linux and buffering data on the m4
2021-01-24T11:46:16 < qyx> ddr3/ddr3l are better available, thats true
2021-01-24T11:49:25 < qyx> the only chip available you are able to have 1 GB with is W63CH6MBVACE (using two)
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2021-01-24T12:06:40 < zyp> if you're gonna have more than one chip, I believe ddr3 will be easier to route than ddr2
2021-01-24T12:09:14 < qyx> lpddr2 vs 3 is the same, isn't it?
2021-01-24T12:19:22 < zyp> probably, haven't looked into the details of lpddr
2021-01-24T12:20:15 < qyx> they look great
2021-01-24T12:20:26 < qyx> except the 0.65 mm pitch
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2021-01-24T12:28:00 < qyx> have you seen vertical usb-c?
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2021-01-24T12:28:13 < qyx> I mean right angle but vertical
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2021-01-24T12:45:26 < zyp> yes
2021-01-24T12:45:47 < zyp> e.g. https://no.mouser.com/new/kycon/kycon-upright-usb-c-connector/
2021-01-24T12:45:56 < zyp> not sure I've seen them with full usb3 signals
2021-01-24T12:46:06 < zyp> oh, yes, that one has both
2021-01-24T12:46:22 < zyp> I mean, related one
2021-01-24T12:50:53 < qyx> oh great, much tht
2021-01-24T12:51:16 < qyx> thank you, my search was insufficient
2021-01-24T12:54:19 < zyp> footprint looks nice
2021-01-24T12:54:26 < zyp> easy to route
2021-01-24T12:58:22 < zyp> I mean 24-pin one, 14-pin one looks more annoying :p
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2021-01-24T13:31:59 < qyx> dp/dn is weird
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2021-01-24T15:53:25 < karlp> sweet, new phone can charge at 24W
2021-01-24T15:53:39 < karlp> and the usb power meter happily works with that
2021-01-24T15:59:24 < mawk> https://youtu.be/-G5OqnjUZ4c
2021-01-24T15:59:28 < mawk> pajitnov would love this music
2021-01-24T15:59:30 < mawk> so you would too PaulFertser 
2021-01-24T16:04:53 < Steffanx> Music you said.
2021-01-24T16:05:23 < mawk> yes
2021-01-24T16:05:31 < mawk> you don't like it :( ?
2021-01-24T16:05:45 < Steffanx> Is that even a question?
2021-01-24T16:05:51 < mawk> yes
2021-01-24T16:06:17 < mawk> it has bassline, it has kick, it has hi-hats, it has melody
2021-01-24T16:06:19 < mawk> so it is music
2021-01-24T16:06:28 < mawk> and it's fast enough to qualify as good music
2021-01-24T16:06:35 < mawk> the faster the better
2021-01-24T16:06:46 < Steffanx> You forg9t to add imo or imho
2021-01-24T16:07:08 < mawk> no
2021-01-24T16:07:09 < Steffanx> Forgot.
2021-01-24T16:07:12 < mawk> fast is good
2021-01-24T16:07:24 < mawk> live fast die old should be everyone's motto
2021-01-24T16:08:41 < mawk> https://youtu.be/XpDcU-yRQVc this is by a dutchie so you must listen
2021-01-24T16:08:46 < mawk> mister joost van gelder
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2021-01-24T16:10:34 < Steffanx> Live is already hectic/fast enough that i like some pieceful music more
2021-01-24T16:11:10 < mawk> that's the wrong fast
2021-01-24T16:11:26 < mawk> there's good fast, and wrong fast
2021-01-24T16:11:42 < Steffanx> And there is relaxed with some peaceful music 
2021-01-24T16:11:45 < mawk> wrong fast is a stressful live you spend 50% of working behind deadlines for a shit pay
2021-01-24T16:11:53 < mawk> good fast is doing drugs off hooker's ass
2021-01-24T16:11:57 < Steffanx> Lol, you didnt even comment on my "pieceful" 
2021-01-24T16:12:11 < mawk> I have a Steffanx translator in my brain
2021-01-24T16:12:18 < mawk> I don't notice anymore
2021-01-24T16:14:05 < mawk> you can hear the music was ripped from vinyl
2021-01-24T16:14:18 < mawk> this useless "grain" that makes it worse
2021-01-24T16:15:46 < mawk> anyway fast music with a big kick helps you focus
2021-01-24T16:15:49 < mawk> scientifically proven
2021-01-24T16:16:01 < mawk> so it's therapeutic after all
2021-01-24T16:17:18 < Steffanx> That kind of science is like hot air
2021-01-24T16:17:28 < mawk> no it's true science
2021-01-24T16:17:41 < mawk> it works even better when it's heartbeat frequency or a multiple thereof
2021-01-24T16:18:00 < mawk> and given that I have tachycardia, fast music was my destiny
2021-01-24T16:19:02 < Steffanx> Test with one person, add some sauce, write paper. And the science is real
2021-01-24T16:19:54 < mawk> it's not one person
2021-01-24T16:20:00 < mawk> look for it on pubmed
2021-01-24T16:20:06 < mawk> I'm too lazy to look
2021-01-24T16:20:37 < mawk> but it's an actual published study
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2021-01-24T16:57:11 < Sadale> I've just noticed something interesting. How come some low-cost microcontroller with USB support's even cheaper than common USB to UART chips like the FT232RL or CP2102? 
2021-01-24T16:57:47 < karlp> because ft232 and cp2102 include the softare to make them ready for your app
2021-01-24T16:57:52 < karlp> and you pay for that privelege
2021-01-24T16:58:02 < effractur> and they have already an USB-PID/VID
2021-01-24T16:58:21 < effractur> and usb2 speeds 
2021-01-24T16:58:25 < effractur> vs 1.1 often in the low cost stuff
2021-01-24T16:58:54 < karlp> aliexpress ai is losing it's mind: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/J0TEw.png
2021-01-24T16:59:15 < karlp> ft232 and cp2102 are both USB-FS just like cheap usb micros...
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2021-01-24T16:59:31 < effractur> not all ft232 versions
2021-01-24T16:59:40 < effractur> the FT232H is highspeed 
2021-01-24T17:00:00 < effractur> but yes its mostly just completed bla
2021-01-24T17:01:36 < Sadale> ah. That makes sense.
2021-01-24T17:03:03 < Sadale> Still, why bother using high speed USB-UARt chip? Aren't most of the UART just operate at up to, perhaps 115200? I mean the common ones. And that's far below the 12Mbits/s of USB FS.
2021-01-24T17:03:22 < effractur> well the chip can do more then just UART
2021-01-24T17:03:27 < karlp> the HS parts are used for things like jtag adapaters for instance
2021-01-24T17:03:31 < karlp> or usb to spi
2021-01-24T17:03:38 < Sadale> ah. cool!
2021-01-24T17:04:02 < karlp> and also, uart like console shit is often rarely over 115200, but you'll see uarts at much higher speeds talking to modems and bluetooth chipsets
2021-01-24T17:04:32 < effractur> and often data accusision systems use some usb-> uart 
2021-01-24T17:04:45 < effractur> seen it quite a bit in the lab
2021-01-24T17:05:01 < mawk> lol the screenshot karlp 
2021-01-24T17:05:57 < karlp> fast charging: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/DKxyfNWCgWLEJnn
2021-01-24T17:05:58 < englishman> ftdi has some really cool useful parts like ft4232
2021-01-24T17:06:30 -!- catphish [~user@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-24T17:06:32 < karlp> for when you _really_ need to connect to a lot of legacy uart shit at the same time ;)
2021-01-24T17:06:56 < englishman> gpios too
2021-01-24T17:07:00 < englishman> and spi etc
2021-01-24T17:07:55 < englishman> i have it in a testjig, connects directly to a labview program, so the testjig has zero on board firmware
2021-01-24T17:08:05 < mawk> but $$$$$
2021-01-24T17:08:06 < englishman> much easier to manage
2021-01-24T17:09:36 < Steffanx> Easier to manage when you like labview
2021-01-24T17:09:50 < Steffanx> But I bet you have a labview guy
2021-01-24T17:09:52 < englishman> labview is the best
2021-01-24T17:10:07 < Steffanx> And dont have to bother with lv yourself
2021-01-24T17:10:55 < englishman> we even calibrate our NI capture cards in-house now
2021-01-24T17:11:22 < Sadale> wow. ft4232's expensive tho.
2021-01-24T17:11:46 < Sadale> I'm wondering if the same thing could be implemented using a low-end microcontroller with USB support. It seems to be doable. That's a lot of work tho and probably isn't worth it.
2021-01-24T17:12:08 < karlp> englishman: zero on board firmwar,e just a big blob of unmaintainable, unversionable gui lv shits right
2021-01-24T17:12:45 < englishman> labview supports git
2021-01-24T17:12:48 < englishman> it's quite godo
2021-01-24T17:13:14 < englishman> sadale the issue is every testjig has a mcu onboard that is basically a gpio expander with its own firmware and set of serial commands
2021-01-24T17:13:25 < englishman> some are msp430, some are pic, some are stm32
2021-01-24T17:13:51 < qyx> lol lv git fuk
2021-01-24T17:13:52 < englishman> so now there's a dozen labview programs, plus a dozen firmware versions and 3-4 debuggers and IDEs
2021-01-24T17:13:55 < qyx> been there done that
2021-01-24T17:14:36 < qyx> lv was my worst automotivw/testying experience
2021-01-24T17:14:38 < Sadale> hmm. So with ft4232 you could move the test program to, says a computer or a raspberry pi?
2021-01-24T17:14:54 < qyx> when electricians try to do programming
2021-01-24T17:15:04 < qyx> I mean, moving boxes
2021-01-24T17:15:42 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-01-24T17:16:08 < englishman> see i feel it is more for actual EEs that might not know programming, but do know how to think in time constants and ffts
2021-01-24T17:17:55 < Steffanx> Yeah, probably fine. But then they have to implement some protocol decoder/encoder and thats where it gets shitty
2021-01-24T17:19:10 < Steffanx> Im not saying all this custom stuff + fw is great. Its a maintenance hell as well
2021-01-24T17:20:11 < Steffanx> Luckily you can also use the ni cards in your own desktop sw 
2021-01-24T17:23:05 < qyx> but you are not going to wave with your certificate in front of your customer when using python or c++
2021-01-24T17:23:12 < qyx> you need lv for that
2021-01-24T17:24:45 < Steffanx> Lv certificate? Or what?
2021-01-24T17:25:18 < qyx> haven't you seen lv certifates?
2021-01-24T17:25:23 < Steffanx> Nope
2021-01-24T17:25:33 < qyx> heh
2021-01-24T17:25:36 < Steffanx> I have seen lv crash hard though :P
2021-01-24T17:26:09 < qyx> there is some cld, cla and some others iirc
2021-01-24T17:26:50 < Steffanx> but i have so say it was mainly external DLLs that made labview crash
2021-01-24T17:27:09 < Steffanx> And im still surprised by that. Id expected labview to somehow sandbox external DLLs
2021-01-24T17:27:22 < Steffanx> a bad DLL even makes the designer/GUI crash/hang
2021-01-24T17:29:35 < Steffanx> and then the joy of background NI services. Which changes the windows schedular tick to a default of 10ms (instead of the usual 15.625ms when idle).
2021-01-24T17:29:38 < Steffanx> thats just fucked up
2021-01-24T17:30:29 < BrainDamage> labview is a lot like matlab
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2021-01-24T17:30:57 < BrainDamage> great when there's some readily made package that does half what you want, and you just tape them together
2021-01-24T17:31:12 < BrainDamage> horrible if you have to build something from scratch
2021-01-24T17:31:38 < BrainDamage> the gui thingy was good tho, nothing professional grade, but you could easily visualise shiit
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2021-01-24T17:35:09 < qyx> the new labview rf something looked good
2021-01-24T17:35:19 < qyx> much like gnuradio-companion
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2021-01-24T17:36:28 < qyx> hm, do I need tusb320 or similar to implement usb-c DFP?
2021-01-24T17:47:21 < qyx> TPS25821 look good
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2021-01-24T19:29:12 < zyp> to implement what exactly?
2021-01-24T19:33:33 < zyp> ah, yeah, TPS25821 looks perfect if you want a plain DFP with 1.5A or 500mA current limit
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2021-01-24T19:59:31 < qyx> and then tusb320 for DRP
2021-01-24T20:00:06 < qyx> and MIPI-DSI to eDP bridge for dp alt mode
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2021-01-24T20:00:45 < qyx> they say I should use SN65DSI86 with TUSB546A
2021-01-24T20:01:04 < qyx> the latter looks redundant for me (usb2 only)
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2021-01-24T20:03:35 < qyx> hm maybe not
2021-01-24T20:22:46 < qyx> I had the impression usb3 usb-c to usb-c cable has only 3 lanes
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2021-01-24T20:48:54 < englishman> depends on the version of usb and if you need full duplex
2021-01-24T20:48:59 < englishman> iirc.
2021-01-24T20:54:16 < qyx> apparently vesa edp alt mode needs 4 lanes + usb2
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2021-01-24T21:18:03 < zyp> qyx, there's only two standard types of C-C cables wrt. pinout; reduced and full featured ones -- reduced only got usb2/power/CC, full got all four SS lanes plus SBU in addition
2021-01-24T21:18:30 < zyp> i.e. every usb3 C-C cable needs all four lanes
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2021-01-24T21:33:24 < qyx> til: zyp> i.e. every usb3 C-C cable needs all four lanes
2021-01-24T21:35:17 < qyx> but but https://www.usbgear.com/USB3/images/567861.jpg
2021-01-24T21:35:32 < qyx> you may find multitude of such cables on the interweb
2021-01-24T21:36:01 < zyp> that's not a C-C cable
2021-01-24T21:36:26 < qyx> fuk
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2021-01-24T22:48:11 < karlp> that's the usb3 a-a shit I was seeing the other day
2021-01-24T22:49:44 < effractur> intel also uses a A-A cable for debuggin stuff
2021-01-24T22:50:17 < effractur> https://designintools.intel.com/SVT_DCI_DbC2_3_A_to_A_Debug_Cable_1_Meter_p/itpdciamam1m.htm
2021-01-24T23:08:02 < Steffanx> Usb 3.0 compliant?
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2021-01-24T23:29:32 < Laurenceb> https://s01.geekpic.net/di-MW30H0.jpeg
2021-01-24T23:38:56 < zyp> more coroutine fun; here's a dumb polling sleep(): https://paste.jvnv.net/view/FnyCf
2021-01-24T23:39:02 < zyp> I like the chrono stuff
2021-01-24T23:40:11 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554712844357337088/802825769864003594/hcq9qmdhp4d61.jpeg
2021-01-24T23:43:05 < Laurenceb> lol
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2021-01-25T01:20:04 < zyp> interrupt based sleep: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Ed7Nl
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2021-01-25T01:24:33 < kakium69> hello night crew
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2021-01-25T01:35:27 < kakium69> what browser you use and what addons?
2021-01-25T01:39:12 < qyx> ff + ubnlock orighin
2021-01-25T01:39:20 < qyx> ublock origin
2021-01-25T01:39:53 < qyx> any way to get higher than USB HS rates on F7/H7?
2021-01-25T01:40:43 < qyx> ftdi has some usb3-fifo bridges
2021-01-25T01:40:57 < zyp> what is your goal?
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2021-01-25T01:41:43 < qyx> fast data download from a emmc
2021-01-25T01:42:01 < zyp> how fast is your emmc?
2021-01-25T01:42:19 < zyp> as in, how fast can your stm32 access the emmc?
2021-01-25T01:42:43 < qyx> it will be its sole purpose during data download
2021-01-25T01:42:59 < qyx> idk but I suspect faster than 40 MB/s
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2021-01-25T01:43:18 < zyp> how are you hooking it up?
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2021-01-25T01:43:49 < qyx> two emmc over two sdmmc ifaces
2021-01-25T01:44:05 < kakium69> anyone using edge?
2021-01-25T01:44:13 < qyx> yeah I cannot use a bridge
2021-01-25T01:44:36 < qyx> I coiuld if there was a recognisable fs
2021-01-25T01:45:28 < zyp> what's sdmmc? same as the old sdio or what?
2021-01-25T01:45:49 < qyx> yes they call it differently now
2021-01-25T01:46:02 < qyx> on f7, h7, mp1
2021-01-25T01:46:13 < qyx> (8 bit wide)
2021-01-25T01:46:30 < zyp> I'm not familiar enough with f7 to say, but on f4 you can't do more than 24 MHz on SDIO in parallel with USB
2021-01-25T01:46:50 < qyx> empirical?
2021-01-25T01:47:40 < zyp> it's clocked from the same PLL output as the USB48 clock, and there's an errata stating you have to run divided, so max 24 MHz
2021-01-25T01:47:56 < zyp> workaround says you can overclock the output if you don't need USB
2021-01-25T01:48:44 < zyp> although I guess OTG_HS doesn't need USB48, since it should be using 60MHz ULPI clock instead
2021-01-25T01:49:00 < zyp> and I guess the errata might be fixed
2021-01-25T01:50:11 < zyp> not mentioned in ES0360 at least
2021-01-25T01:50:15 < qyx> so you are saying under some circumstances I may not even be able to saturate HS
2021-01-25T01:50:27 < zyp> with F4, yes
2021-01-25T01:50:59 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-25T01:51:17 < zyp> looks like SDMMC is specced up to 50MHz
2021-01-25T01:53:39 < qyx> on mp1 104 MHz DDR
2021-01-25T01:53:46 < zyp> HS has a theoretical max of 53 MB/s, and if SDMMC does max 50 MB/s, I'm not sure it's worth trying to do a usb3 solution
2021-01-25T01:55:06 < qyx> actually 130 MHz is max
2021-01-25T01:55:23 < qyx> 209 MB/s max is maximum
2021-01-25T01:56:13 < qyx> *208
2021-01-25T01:56:37 < qyx> and there are three
2021-01-25T01:56:58 < qyx> but idk whats  the real throughtput of DMAs and axi
2021-01-25T01:57:33 < qyx> Ill do HS for now and see
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2021-01-25T02:08:04  * Laurenceb was wondering if DCMI could be used for ADC interfacing
2021-01-25T02:11:56 < qyx> probably yes if it is able to receive arbitrary data from jpeg cameras
2021-01-25T02:13:42 < zyp> I'm looking forward to eventually trying custom usb3 on fpga
2021-01-25T02:13:59 < zyp> I've got a board here that is theoretically capable of it
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2021-01-25T02:34:48 < qyx> 20 pF capacitance of a signal line is hard to adhere to
2021-01-25T02:34:49 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-25T02:35:00 < qyx> emmc itself has 6 pF
2021-01-25T02:35:53 < qyx> so I may probably xonnect two on a single bus with few mm of tracks
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2021-01-25T03:07:19 < ds2> is there any stm32 in sot23? or some 8 pin package?
2021-01-25T03:08:07 < englishman> I think one new 8pin
2021-01-25T03:08:32 < englishman> update your cube and check :)
2021-01-25T03:08:41 < ds2> any idea of the P/N? I hate the st website
2021-01-25T03:09:32 < ds2> the atmel attiny10 looked interesting til i found the lack of cheaper programmers for it 
2021-01-25T03:11:40 < qyx> ds2: stm32g0?
2021-01-25T03:12:15 < ds2> thanks
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2021-01-25T03:12:41 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/Semiconductors/Embedded-Processors-Controllers/Microcontrollers-MCU/ARM-Microcontrollers-MCU/_/N-a85pc?P=1z0z7zfZ1y7y4d3&Keyword=stm32g0&FS=True
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2021-01-25T03:12:47 < qyx> but you are out of luck
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2021-01-25T03:12:54 < qyx> maybe somewhere other
2021-01-25T03:12:55 < catphish> ds2: learn to use cube, it's great for finding parts
2021-01-25T03:13:21 < qyx> *else
2021-01-25T03:13:45 < aandrew> G030/031/041 are the ones with 8 pin SOIC package
2021-01-25T03:13:51 < qyx> but regarding physical size, stm32f0xx in a QFN28 is smaller
2021-01-25T03:13:55 < aandrew> digikey is better
2021-01-25T03:14:45 < catphish> i didn't know there were any stm32 that small!
2021-01-25T03:15:01 < aandrew> what's even better is these fuckers are apparently in stock
2021-01-25T03:15:07 < catphish> cool
2021-01-25T03:15:16 < ds2> catphish: does that run on Linux yet? :D
2021-01-25T03:15:26 < catphish> ds2: yes
2021-01-25T03:15:29 < qyx> yeah plenty of G0 in qfn28 I see
2021-01-25T03:15:35 < ds2> catphish: direct or wine?
2021-01-25T03:15:45 < qyx> I was trying to optain some G042 but none in stock
2021-01-25T03:15:50 < qyx> *obtain meh
2021-01-25T03:15:59 < qyx> half sleeping
2021-01-25T03:16:17 < qyx> also, F042 I meant
2021-01-25T03:16:24 < catphish> ds2: direct
2021-01-25T03:16:36 < catphish> ds2: https://www.st.com/bin/ecommerce/api/image.PF259242.en.feature-description-include-personalized-no-cpn-large.jpg
2021-01-25T03:16:43 < catphish> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stm32cubemx.html#overview
2021-01-25T03:16:56 < qyx> since when?
2021-01-25T03:17:00 < ds2> wow 4 parts
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2021-01-25T03:18:13 < catphish> i've only ever done stm32 development on linux, over the last 3 years, always used cubemx, never even occurred to me that it might not be linux native
2021-01-25T03:18:19 < catphish> but it is :)
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2021-01-25T03:19:11 < qyx> interesting, back in the days we had to salvage some .jar from a windows installer and run it
2021-01-25T03:19:20 < ds2> nice parts... only thing more to wish for is more analog on the chip
2021-01-25T03:19:26 < qyx> it was not called cube
2021-01-25T03:19:33 < catphish> ah ok, i guess it's all java, has a native linux installer anyway
2021-01-25T03:19:50 < qyx> ds2: for example?
2021-01-25T03:20:00 < ds2> as o 3.5 yrs ago at the last ST seminar, the cube stuff did not work well underwine
2021-01-25T03:20:09 < catphish> i'm trying to get my hear around this new raspberry pi rp2040 chip and its programmable io peripheral
2021-01-25T03:20:32 < ds2> qyx: a couple of uncommitted op-amps would be nice... trying to interface to analog stuff w/o a lot of analog glue
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2021-01-25T03:20:58 < kakiumxps> what is up with fonts in firefox though
2021-01-25T03:21:03 < ds2> other then PSoC's, the MSP430's seems to be the only other option for low pin count w/analog glue
2021-01-25T03:21:04 < qyx> there are families with opamps, analol comparators, sigma delta adc, sar adc, dac
2021-01-25T03:21:40 < qyx> there is even an analog switching matrix very well hidden in the touch screen controller
2021-01-25T03:21:43 < ds2> qyx: then you give up low pin count... trying to avoid analog glue and running traces with analog all over... a nice small MCU next to analog and I2C or SPI back
2021-01-25T03:22:03 < ds2> ADCs are all over but there is a small amout of signal conditioning
2021-01-25T03:22:20 < ds2> transimpedence, gain, analog filtering,etc
2021-01-25T03:22:34 < qyx> gain and analog filtering is doable
2021-01-25T03:22:56 < ds2> on the 8 pin devices?
2021-01-25T03:23:08 < ds2> 16pin or less would be desireable
2021-01-25T03:23:08 < qyx> oh, idk, never used them
2021-01-25T03:23:33 < qyx> you should not expect everything on nothing
2021-01-25T03:23:44 < ds2> the bigger ones have them...even a small amount of digital logic glue
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2021-01-25T03:24:05 < ds2> MSP430's has a 16pin, MCU + transimpedence amp
2021-01-25T03:24:18 < ds2> photodiode to I2C chip in one
2021-01-25T03:24:46 < qyx> any particular reason you want to implement pd->i2c yourself?
2021-01-25T03:24:49 < qyx> there are chips for that
2021-01-25T03:25:06 < ds2> there are? who makes them?
2021-01-25T03:25:15 < ds2> no reason other then not finding them
2021-01-25T03:26:58 < qyx> I found them when I was searching for ALS sensors
2021-01-25T03:28:11 < ds2> I think those do processing on them and are surprisely high pin counts at least the ones i have seen
2021-01-25T03:33:03 < qyx> and do you need to amplify a discrete photodiode?
2021-01-25T03:33:14 < qyx> or an all-in-one solution is ok?
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2021-01-25T05:02:04 < fenugrec> englishman, https://ibb.co/8j1f3Tg
2021-01-25T05:02:27 < fenugrec> more mosfet & diode innovation
2021-01-25T05:02:56 < englishman> ready for proto
2021-01-25T05:04:11 < fenugrec> heh
2021-01-25T05:05:08 < fenugrec> it kinda blows my mind, 4 years of uni and still get mosfets and diodes wrong
2021-01-25T05:06:53 < fenugrec> after being corrected 3 times you'd think they would maybe look it up and get their shit together
2021-01-25T05:19:06 < aandrew> fenugrec: that PMOS is backward I think
2021-01-25T05:19:16 < fenugrec> aandrew, very much so, yes
2021-01-25T05:19:21 < aandrew> can't tell because your EDA software decided to shit all over the symbol, but that body diode looks like it's forward biased
2021-01-25T05:20:00 < aandrew> I also very much dislike your net labels for ground and power symbols... second time I've seen that today, why do people do that?
2021-01-25T05:20:49 < fenugrec> aandrew, context : having some interns do a thing and they have a ... strange way of working. All the symbols I think they get from some online symbol-generator thing, creates super ugly inconsistent symbols like that. Just compare the two mosfets, wtf
2021-01-25T05:21:58 < aandrew> I did notice the two but figured they were just copying symbols from different places
2021-01-25T05:24:25 < fenugrec> look at this elegant 1117 regulator symbol https://ibb.co/PwTRLJ6
2021-01-25T05:26:47 < aandrew> lol
2021-01-25T05:36:44 < ds2> so sad that isn't economical to replace a UPS battery thesedays :(
2021-01-25T05:40:32 < Laurenceb> reee so many job sites
2021-01-25T05:40:41 < Laurenceb> and they all have slightly different jerbs
2021-01-25T05:41:23 < Laurenceb> monster is useless, that much is clear
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2021-01-25T05:43:49 < Laurenceb> I thought totaljobs found ~everything, but I just found stuff on engineeringjobs.co.uk thats missing from totaljobs
2021-01-25T05:44:01 < Laurenceb> clearly I need to make a scraper based job listing site
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2021-01-25T11:35:47 < karlp> wat, cube has run on linux for years and years now.
2021-01-25T11:36:29 < karlp> ds2 sounds like you want greenpak? :)
2021-01-25T11:37:47 < karlp> why does fenugrec's eagle have such different symbols for the two fets?
2021-01-25T11:38:31 < qyx> if if cube but the thing befire cube didn't
2021-01-25T11:38:35 < qyx> *idk if
2021-01-25T11:38:49 < qyx> how was that called
2021-01-25T11:39:08 < karlp> was also cube,
2021-01-25T11:39:17 < karlp> it did change to cubemx at one stage or something
2021-01-25T11:39:32 < karlp> and "cube" did change from a windows binary jar runner to an actual executable jar
2021-01-25T11:39:43  * karlp shrugs
2021-01-25T11:39:56 < karlp> it was about the same time that stlink was ported to be multi platform,
2021-01-25T11:42:27 < qyx> the last time I was using it it was not cube yet :>
2021-01-25T11:43:21  * qyx writing 4 lines of python for the last hour
2021-01-25T11:47:50 < Steffanx> Dont all cube tools run in windows/linux/macos ?
2021-01-25T11:47:53 < zyp> I'm still trying to wake up
2021-01-25T11:47:57 < Steffanx> Same.
2021-01-25T11:48:05 < Steffanx> *on
2021-01-25T11:48:11 < mawk> I've got exactly what you need then Steffanx and zyp
2021-01-25T11:48:13 < mawk> https://youtu.be/-G5OqnjUZ4c
2021-01-25T11:48:27 < Steffanx> i dont wake up from that. 
2021-01-25T11:48:33 < zyp> fuck off
2021-01-25T11:48:40 < mawk> :(
2021-01-25T11:48:46 < mawk> I wanted to help you wake up
2021-01-25T11:48:56 < Steffanx> maybe some more coffee zyp ?
2021-01-25T11:49:08 < zyp> idk, I don't like coffee
2021-01-25T11:49:16 < Steffanx> red bull?
2021-01-25T11:49:54 < mawk> monster tastes better
2021-01-25T11:50:36 < Steffanx> i wouldnt know. The smell of that stuff is enough for me: No thanks.
2021-01-25T11:50:44 < mawk> there are many varieties
2021-01-25T11:50:48 < mawk> I like the one with mango juice
2021-01-25T11:51:21 < mawk> https://www.carrefour.fr/media/1500x1500/Photosite/PGC/BOISSONS/5060517889852_PHOTOSITE_20201204_175712_0.jpg?placeholder=1
2021-01-25T11:51:34 < Steffanx> Club-Mate is all you need right?
2021-01-25T11:51:36 < mawk> also the pink one
2021-01-25T11:51:41 < mawk> maté is fine
2021-01-25T11:51:44 < mawk> but not enough caffene
2021-01-25T11:51:47 < mawk> caffeine
2021-01-25T11:51:51 < Steffanx> lol, ive never seen that one before. I only know the black/green one.
2021-01-25T11:52:01 < mawk> the black/green tastes like redbull, it's not good
2021-01-25T11:52:03 < mawk> try the other ones
2021-01-25T11:52:09 < mawk> the lewis hamilton one is good as well, the yellow
2021-01-25T11:52:13 < mawk> tastes like orangina/fanta
2021-01-25T11:53:01 < Steffanx> Im allergic to lewis hamilton
2021-01-25T11:53:03 < mawk> why
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2021-01-25T11:54:59 < karlp> "Although turning off the module by PWRDWN_N and EMERG_OFF are fully tested and nothing wrong detected, this operation is
2021-01-25T11:55:00 < karlp> still a big risk as it could reduce the service life of (U)SIM card or the module.
2021-01-25T11:55:03 < karlp> thanks....
2021-01-25T11:55:24 < karlp> turn off time using the polite method is specced as taking >= 30s.  no upper limit...
2021-01-25T11:56:04 < mawk> lol
2021-01-25T11:58:33 < karlp> stupid module provides a led indicator pin, won't let you sink or source any current to it, at all.
2021-01-25T12:04:15 < qyx> aisler didn't even notice my sepa mandate is not valid anymore
2021-01-25T12:04:36 < qyx> I am curious if they actaully send PCBs without payment
2021-01-25T12:05:35 < qyx> also no point in ordering there as jlcpcb took less (incl shipping)
2021-01-25T12:21:33 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdCaCe_xLt8
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2021-01-25T12:32:21 < karlp> wat?
2021-01-25T12:35:05 < mawk> if it's not techno I'm not clicking benishor 
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2021-01-25T12:38:28 < benishor> it's some sort of techno
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2021-01-25T13:07:23  * Streaker pees on benishor 
2021-01-25T13:09:05  * benishor breaks streaker's arm and beats him up with his very own hand
2021-01-25T13:09:13 < benishor> manners, young man
2021-01-25T13:13:20 < mawk> https://youtu.be/XpDcU-yRQVc
2021-01-25T13:16:29 < PaulFertser> mawk: I've listened to the music you sent yesterday but neither did I enjoy it, nor did it help me to concentrate/work. Not the kind of music I usually enjoy. If you listen to some popular Gentle Giant song you'll see how big the impedance mismatch is.
2021-01-25T13:17:10 < mawk> the music yesterday was a trap
2021-01-25T13:17:15 < mawk> but this one is good I promise
2021-01-25T13:17:17 < mawk> it's only 155bpm
2021-01-25T13:17:23 < mawk> intro ends at 1:50
2021-01-25T13:17:45 < mawk> actually it's the precursor of hardstyle music
2021-01-25T13:17:50 < benishor> PaulFertser: then you will (or already do) like Camel
2021-01-25T13:17:53 < mawk> when producers started increasing the volume of bassline
2021-01-25T13:18:34 < benishor> mawk: not bad, but josh wink's higher state of consciousness is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3hAnAnJwyU&ab_channel=StrictlyRhythm
2021-01-25T13:19:10 < benishor> PaulFertser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TakazuzJVPc&ab_channel=Camel
2021-01-25T13:19:42 < PaulFertser> benishor: I'll try in the evening, thanks. BTW, ELO and similar bands I do not like.
2021-01-25T13:19:43 < mawk> I hope it's not goa
2021-01-25T13:20:04 < mawk> or trance
2021-01-25T13:20:08 < mawk> or god forbid, minimal
2021-01-25T13:20:09 < benishor> PaulFertser: no, it's irish prog 
2021-01-25T13:20:47 < benishor> actually I might be wrong. they might be english not irish
2021-01-25T13:22:08 < karlp> nice, kicad footprint "renumber pads" is handy
2021-01-25T13:22:27 < karlp> had created an array of pads, but had to renumber htem to follow quectel's "compatible" numbering
2021-01-25T13:23:10 < PaulFertser> btw, tried FreeCADing this weekend, and that 0.19-dev version didn't fully crash even a single time!
2021-01-25T13:23:44 < karlp> benishor: lunar sea -> lunacy -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdw1MVJQME
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2021-01-25T14:33:22 < Steffanx> Were you able to find your way in this weird/interesting menu structure PaulFertser ?
2021-01-25T14:43:40 < karlp> so. running speedcrunch crashes gnome-shell now..
2021-01-25T14:43:42 < karlp> fantastic.
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2021-01-25T15:06:01 < kakiumxps> so I wanted bright display
2021-01-25T15:07:32 < Steffanx> https://twitter.com/Ruptly/status/1353673979286835200 welcome in dutchland. Where a curfew means you have to go riot.
2021-01-25T15:07:42 < kakiumxps> in the dark minimum backlight level display is burning my eyes even with piss colours from f.lux
2021-01-25T15:08:06 < kakiumxps> did some googling and realized that f.lux has dimming function too
2021-01-25T15:08:26 < kakiumxps> only via shortcut keys though
2021-01-25T15:09:11 < Steffanx> jpa- cant you go work for lumineq. I need someone who can write proper non-ambiguous datasheets. I believe you can do such thing.
2021-01-25T15:09:17 < Steffanx> Espoo they are located i believe
2021-01-25T15:09:56 < Steffanx> *in
2021-01-25T15:10:10 < kakiumxps> Steffanx: .nl + riot :o
2021-01-25T15:10:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: having no experience with 3D modelling any structure is about the same regarding weirdness I guess
2021-01-25T15:10:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: in fact, I didn't notice any deep nesting in the menus
2021-01-25T15:11:26 < qyx> IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE SOON, AND I'LL BE RIGHT AT THE FRONT OF THE CROWD!
2021-01-25T15:11:30 < qyx> Steffanx: another one ^ :D
2021-01-25T15:11:44 < kakiumxps> curfew wtf
2021-01-25T15:13:35 < karlp> PaulFertser: he was probably talking about all the "workbench" dropdowns
2021-01-25T15:16:38 < kakiumxps> Steffanx: it's your home town?
2021-01-25T15:16:49 < PaulFertser> karlp: but it's pretty plain; it's just not obvious when to use Draft and when Sketcher, and same about Part and PartDesign etc.
2021-01-25T15:16:57 < Streaker> if you riot enough you'll probably achieve herd immunity and obviate the need for a lockdown.
2021-01-25T15:17:01 < Steffanx> lol, i live in a small village kakiumxps. Here such thing doesnt happen.
2021-01-25T15:18:26 < Steffanx> Yeah i was referring to that workbench drop down menu. PaulFertser / karlp 
2021-01-25T15:18:35 < kakiumxps> does curfews work?
2021-01-25T15:19:31 < Steffanx> idk
2021-01-25T15:21:31 < kakiumxps> why does .nl and .be have so high infections?
2021-01-25T15:21:58 < effractur> because freedom
2021-01-25T15:22:11 < Steffanx> and we're a little crowded perhaps.
2021-01-25T15:22:15 < Steffanx> and some dont give a shit.
2021-01-25T15:22:18 < Steffanx> and fredom
2021-01-25T15:22:31 < kakiumxps> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ btw. 100M today?
2021-01-25T15:40:18 < Steffanx> probably..?
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2021-01-25T15:47:54 < karlp> bleh, cant' select multiple pins in kicad symbol editor and markt hem all invisible at once?
2021-01-25T15:51:52 < qyx> idk any way
2021-01-25T15:52:12 < qyx> isnt there right click -> copy pin properties, apply?
2021-01-25T15:52:15 < qyx> or is that only for pads
2021-01-25T15:53:15 < mawk> https://youtu.be/EBjvN98U7Ws crypto-psychedelic early hardcore
2021-01-25T15:53:56 < karlp> pads seems lots better for that
2021-01-25T15:54:01 < karlp> schematic is a bit funky
2021-01-25T15:54:43 < karlp> put them all in to make sure i had them, then wanted to turn them all invisible and stack: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/pr66N.png
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2021-01-25T16:04:57 < englishman> maybe curfew works, maybe it doesnt, but here infections dropped by half 2 weeks after it was implemented.
2021-01-25T16:06:12 < karlp> we had our first zero day since june a few days ago
2021-01-25T16:07:47 < mawk> who reported it
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2021-01-25T16:17:07 < karlp> wat?
2021-01-25T16:17:16 < karlp> no, not zero day vulnerability
2021-01-25T16:17:21 < karlp> zero new covid cases
2021-01-25T16:17:23 < mawk> ah
2021-01-25T16:22:08 < zyp> haha
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2021-01-25T16:29:17 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/HenY1C8AnxI
2021-01-25T16:29:19 < mawk> start at 50s
2021-01-25T16:29:25 < englishman> lol @ zero day
2021-01-25T16:29:26 < mawk> otherwise I know you will close it
2021-01-25T16:29:52 < mawk> it's italian music
2021-01-25T16:30:02 < mawk> so it's 50% classical music already
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2021-01-25T16:31:12 < Steffanx> the boom boom continues so.. bye bye mawk 
2021-01-25T16:31:19 < mawk> what no
2021-01-25T16:31:21 < mawk> listen
2021-01-25T16:31:27 < mawk> it's not really boomboom
2021-01-25T16:31:29 < mawk> I swear
2021-01-25T16:31:38 < Steffanx> i did
2021-01-25T16:31:53 < mawk> you need to make abstraction of the kick
2021-01-25T16:31:59 < mawk> focus on the synth and bassline
2021-01-25T16:32:02 < Steffanx> impossible.
2021-01-25T16:32:16 < mawk> why
2021-01-25T16:32:40 < Laurenceb> Cracki is going to jail
2021-01-25T16:32:44 < Laurenceb> https://courtnewsuk.co.uk/teenagers-shared-picture-of-hitler-on-chat-group/
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2021-01-25T17:45:28 < englishman> who was looking for a vertical usbC on the weekend? i got this spam today https://gct.co/news/cost-effective-ionex-usb-type-c-vertical-receptacle-with-low-profile-design
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2021-01-25T18:22:50 < qyx> englishman: me, somebody suggested kycon kusbx
2021-01-25T18:23:47 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Kycon/KUSBX-SL-CS1N14-B/?qs=T3oQrply3y9W0HcGicjIiA%3D%3D
2021-01-25T18:24:10 < englishman> oh vertical like that
2021-01-25T18:24:11 < englishman> neato
2021-01-25T18:24:18 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/JHcycWC lol
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2021-01-25T18:24:58 < Steffanx> that one has corona.
2021-01-25T18:31:51 < sync> qyx, englishman I use that one in a product
2021-01-25T18:31:54 < sync> it's pretty nice
2021-01-25T18:39:31 < Steffanx> But thats not vertical...
2021-01-25T18:40:44 < qyx> thats right angle vertical!
2021-01-25T18:41:35 < qyx> speaking of connectors, anybody using rosenberger fakra for keyed stuff?
2021-01-25T18:41:37 < sync> they also have vertical ones
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2021-01-25T20:04:40 < ds2> karlp: no... the hesitation with MSP430 is due to tooling
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2021-01-25T22:02:20 < qyx> ds2: ask englishman, he knows
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2021-01-25T22:14:12 < Ecco> Hi :)
2021-01-25T22:14:25 < Ecco> I have some questions regarding the VBUS sensing pin on an F7
2021-01-25T22:14:29 < Ecco> Two questions, actually!
2021-01-25T22:14:42 < Ecco> First: I'm using an USBLC6 as an ESD protection
2021-01-25T22:16:01 < Ecco> Yet some of our MCUs come back with a given PA9 pin on the chip. Our FAE told us to consider a separate ESD protection for the VBUS pin (namely ESDA7P60-1U1M). Do you guys think that make sense? I'm a complete idiot when it comes to understanding ESD protections…
2021-01-25T22:16:54 < jpa-> it's pretty rare to get ESD events to +5V pin in usb connectors
2021-01-25T22:16:54 < Ecco> The USBLC6-2's datasheet says "2 data-line protection" and then "Protects VBus"
2021-01-25T22:17:11 < Ecco> Interesting. Why?
2021-01-25T22:17:23 < jpa-> and then the resistor divider probably gives some protection when combined with the STM32 internal ESD-diodes
2021-01-25T22:17:43 < Ecco> what resistor divider are you talking about?
2021-01-25T22:17:48 < jpa-> because the +5V pin connects after GND, and in both ends of the cable it is not directly touchable by user
2021-01-25T22:18:15 < jpa-> the resistor divider between USB +5V and your VBUS sense pin, because it cannot handle +5V when STM32 is off
2021-01-25T22:18:19 < Ecco> jpa-: oh, ok. But then wouldn't that also apply to the D+ and D- line?
2021-01-25T22:18:28 < Ecco> jpa-: Damn you're good!!!!
2021-01-25T22:18:34 < Ecco> That was exactly my second point
2021-01-25T22:18:42 < Ecco> I've seen that mentionned nowhere in the ST's schematics
2021-01-25T22:18:50 < Ecco> and it's totally hidden in the datasheet
2021-01-25T22:18:59 < Ecco> but exactly this, the pins aren't really 8V tolerant
2021-01-25T22:19:02 < Ecco> just Vdd+4V
2021-01-25T22:19:05 < Ecco> so if Vdd=0
2021-01-25T22:19:14 < Ecco> then you'd better make sure you divide vbus
2021-01-25T22:19:18 < Ecco> I had no idea
2021-01-25T22:19:25 < Ecco> and I had no idea it was kind of "known"
2021-01-25T22:19:30 < Ecco> How did you learn about this?
2021-01-25T22:19:49 < jpa-> yeah, D+ and D- are quite protected also, though the lack of series resistance / divider means they are more sensitive
2021-01-25T22:20:05 < jpa-> i learned it in the ##stm32 academy
2021-01-25T22:20:09 < Ecco> :-D
2021-01-25T22:20:33 < Ecco> Ok, so you may know the answer to my third question then
2021-01-25T22:20:42 < Ecco> I used a 3.3k /10k divider bridge
2021-01-25T22:20:54 < Ecco> to feed vbus-from-pc into stm32-vbus-sensing-pin
2021-01-25T22:21:14 < Ecco> So I should get 3.75V in there, for an MCU that runs at 2.8V
2021-01-25T22:21:36 < Ecco> For some reason the software doesn't seem to be working well. It has a hard time picking up the vbus state.
2021-01-25T22:22:03 < Ecco> And weird shit like "touching the gnd with a finger" or "replacing an SMT resistor with a "big" one" randomly fixes it
2021-01-25T22:22:08 < Ecco> I don't really know where to look at
2021-01-25T22:22:26 < jpa-> have you tried measuring it to see if you actuall get 3.75V there?
2021-01-25T22:22:45 < Ecco> Well, it's less than that
2021-01-25T22:23:01 < Ecco> Also sometimes the PC says we're drawing too much current
2021-01-25T22:23:15 < Ecco> which needs more investigating
2021-01-25T22:23:41 < karlp> Ecco: if your fae said you needed sesparate on top of the usblc6-2, then they didn't look at what that part was?
2021-01-25T22:24:03 < Ecco> karlp: not sur I understand your question :)
2021-01-25T22:24:16 < Ecco> They gave us a reference schematic
2021-01-25T22:24:28 < Ecco> where the USBLC6 is *not* used for Vbus
2021-01-25T22:24:33 < karlp> well, that's just dumb
2021-01-25T22:24:40 < Ecco> and where they use a standalone diode for vbus 
2021-01-25T22:24:57 < karlp> I mean, lc6-2 is sold and marketed for exactly the poitn of doing both the data lines and vbus
2021-01-25T22:24:58 < Ecco> but yeah, it sounded like bull… to me, which is why I asked you guys
2021-01-25T22:25:04 < Ecco> well yeah :D
2021-01-25T22:25:53 < karlp> you can get 6 pin devices that are _onyl_ d+/d- protection, and if they weren't paying attention they might have thought of that
2021-01-25T22:26:02 < karlp> and decided to cargo cult separate vbus protectin
2021-01-25T22:26:04 < jpa-> looks like STM32F7 specs 200µA load by the VBUS sense, so you should get 3.1V; but should still be fine
2021-01-25T22:26:08 < karlp> but... that's j ust being dumb
2021-01-25T22:28:14 < jpa-> Ecco: are you doing OTG or just device-side?
2021-01-25T22:30:20 < jpa-> it seems that the OTG VBUS sense pin is more complex than basic digital input
2021-01-25T22:35:23 < jpa-> looks like F7 discovery connects VBUS with 100 ohm resistor to PJ12
2021-01-25T22:35:40 < Ecco> I'm just doing device-side. We don't have a 5V rails in the device.
2021-01-25T22:35:52 < Ecco> It's always goign to be just an USB slave
2021-01-25T22:36:35 < Ecco> They also don't say what are the expected voltage on the vbus sensing pin
2021-01-25T22:36:44 < Ecco> sorry, I meant "acceptable"
2021-01-25T22:37:06 < Ecco> So ok, anything over vdd+4V will fry it. But then what qualifies as "vbus connected"?
2021-01-25T22:37:53 < jpa-> if you are not doing OTG, you might just use it as digital input and do vbus detection in software
2021-01-25T22:39:51 < Ecco> Actually, that's exactly what we were doing
2021-01-25T22:40:09 < Ecco> but a small-yet-not-zero percentage of MCUs would die
2021-01-25T22:40:21 < Ecco> but then I assume this should be fixed by the divider bridge
2021-01-25T22:40:39 < Ecco> I'm really curious why it doesn't work though)
2021-01-25T22:41:56 < jpa-> so is this vbus powered? or how are you drawing too much from +5V?
2021-01-25T22:42:14 < Ecco> It is not directly vbus powered
2021-01-25T22:42:25 < Ecco> there's a small LiPo in there, that's charged from vbus (very common and simple shit i assume)
2021-01-25T22:42:42 < Ecco> I don't know how we're drawing too much from vbus. That was on just one single test PCB
2021-01-25T22:42:49 < Ecco> so probably a stupid mistake
2021-01-25T22:46:24 < Ecco> Oh, so
2021-01-25T22:46:26 < Ecco> FAE answered
2021-01-25T22:46:33 < Ecco> apparently USBLC6 is a-ok for ESD
2021-01-25T22:46:38 < Ecco> but the recommended part does ESD + EOS
2021-01-25T22:47:58 < karlp> what's EOS?
2021-01-25T22:48:34 < jpa-> electrical overstress
2021-01-25T22:48:56 < jpa-> apparently clamps at lower voltage, to avoid exceeding max voltage over longer time
2021-01-25T22:49:56 < Ecco> The example given by the FAE is "you plug your device into your car USB connector, and then you power the car"
2021-01-25T22:50:04 < Ecco> Apparently that's susceptible to generate EOS
2021-01-25T22:50:35 < qyx> apparently car's converter is junk then
2021-01-25T22:51:36 < Ecco> That's the part they suggest then : https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/esda7p120-1u1m.pdf
2021-01-25T22:51:40 < jpa-> looking at the specs, i'm not sure ESDA7P60 does anything much different than USBLC6, even though the former has "EOS" mentioned
2021-01-25T22:52:03 < Ecco> Yeah, I'm very much not convinced either
2021-01-25T22:52:25 < Ecco> But that being said, I wonder why I can't get that vbus sensing to work
2021-01-25T22:52:47 < Ecco> Actually I tried a while ago, and then gave up saying "well, let's just use this pin as a GPIO"
2021-01-25T22:53:01 < Ecco> then we had some customer failures, and then we realized we needed a divider bridge
2021-01-25T22:53:16 < Ecco> so while we were at it I thought "wait, maybe that's why vbus sensing is not working"
2021-01-25T22:53:26 < Ecco> turns out, no, vbus sensing is still flaky even with a divider bridge
2021-01-25T22:55:09 < qyx> an offtopic question, may I consider rpi cameras the beast available camera modules today?
2021-01-25T22:55:39 < jpa-> qyx: uh, best in what respect?
2021-01-25T22:55:55 < qyx> *the most available
2021-01-25T22:56:11 < qyx> fuk my BrainDamage 
2021-01-25T22:56:56 < zyp> good question, probably likely
2021-01-25T22:57:38 < qyx> so if I design a thing with the rpi CSI connector, I may use the momentum RPi provides
2021-01-25T22:57:56 < jpa-> the esp32 cameras are pretty cheap also; but you can also just buy camera modules from digikey or mouser, so not sure how you would compare "most available"
2021-01-25T22:58:17 < qyx> good answer too
2021-01-25T22:58:37 < qyx> I didn't even try to shop camera modules anywhere else than china
2021-01-25T22:58:50 < zyp> jpa-, probably as in «I can design a board for this and still easily buy camera modules that fit in a couple of years»
2021-01-25T23:14:47 < qyx> apparently multiple manufacturers are using the same CSI-2 connector
2021-01-25T23:15:52 < zyp> I wouldn't be surprised if the RK3399-board i've got sitting here is using the same pinout
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--- Day changed Tue Jan 26 2021
2021-01-26T00:00:46 < qyx> it is a pity no stm can do mipi csi
2021-01-26T00:02:21 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00693021-stm32mp1-series-interfacing-with-a-mipi-csi2-camera-stmicroelectronics.pdf <- this is for mp1 but looks like it'd work for other parts as well
2021-01-26T00:02:56 < zyp> using https://www.st.com/en/imaging-and-photonics-solutions/stmipid02.html between CSI and DCMI
2021-01-26T00:04:06 < zyp> not very good availability though
2021-01-26T00:05:10 < zyp> also 1.8V
2021-01-26T00:08:26 < qyx> yeah I have read that
2021-01-26T00:08:40 < qyx> 1V8 is okish, not available not so okish
2021-01-26T00:08:58 < qyx> and I have not found any alternative yet
2021-01-26T00:09:21 < qyx> except mipi csi2 -> fpd link iii -> lvcmos
2021-01-26T00:10:09 < qyx> maybe I am searching for the wrong thing, maybe a generic d-phy to parallen deserializer works
2021-01-26T00:10:17 < qyx> or what is it exactly
2021-01-26T00:10:37 < zyp> there's also fpgas with d-phy: https://www.latticesemi.com/Products/FPGAandCPLD/CrossLink-NX
2021-01-26T00:11:15 < zyp> but then that's probably an expensive part with more video processing grunt in itself than the stm32 you'd feed it into
2021-01-26T00:11:36 < qyx> I basically need static images, jpeg compressed if available
2021-01-26T00:11:51 < qyx> but all new modules are csi-2
2021-01-26T00:12:15 < zyp> https://octopart.com/lifcl-17-7sg72c-lattice+semiconductor-111547581?r=sp
2021-01-26T00:12:56 < qyx> meh if I had to use a fpga, I would rather use imx6 with csi-2
2021-01-26T00:13:02 < zyp> :)
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2021-01-26T00:21:12 < qyx> ok, what imx6 calls CSI is not MIPI CSI
2021-01-26T00:21:18 < qyx> it is simply a camera sensor interface
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2021-01-26T00:30:21 < kakiumxps> https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3ddwUyeBE musics
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2021-01-26T01:16:22 < Laurenceb> hortler.jpg
2021-01-26T01:16:31  * Laurenceb gets sent to jail for 5 years
2021-01-26T01:21:07 < kakium69> should one google that .jpg?
2021-01-26T01:24:10 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F752/production/_109741336_durhamteen_storm88.jpg
2021-01-26T01:25:04 < Laurenceb> >Teenagers Jacek Tchorzewski, Michal Szewczuk and Oskar Dunn-Koczorowski were jailed 
2021-01-26T01:25:08 < Laurenceb> wait hol up...
2021-01-26T01:25:15 < Laurenceb> something about those surnames
2021-01-26T01:25:21 < aandrew> lol
2021-01-26T01:25:37 < Laurenceb> typical British names
2021-01-26T01:26:12 < Laurenceb> >draw stick man hortler
2021-01-26T01:26:16 < Laurenceb> >go to jail
2021-01-26T01:26:58 < Laurenceb> pity it wasnt this bad when I was at school, the whole class would be sent to prison
2021-01-26T01:30:02 < kakium69> if you are teenager in uk and you draw hotler.jpg you go to jail?
2021-01-26T01:35:32 < zyp> hmm
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2021-01-26T01:35:49 < zyp> looking into how to replace systick on risc-v
2021-01-26T01:36:50 < Laurenceb> kakium69: yup
2021-01-26T01:37:02 < zyp> spec talks about mtime and mtimecmp register, allowing using it as a deadline timer rather than a tick timer, which is great
2021-01-26T01:37:06 < Laurenceb> especially if you are Polish and autistic it seems
2021-01-26T01:37:18 < Laurenceb> which is funny as hortler hated poles
2021-01-26T01:37:23 < zyp> they are also specced to be 64 bits, so you can use them without worrying about wrapping
2021-01-26T01:38:07 < zyp> what is not so great is that spec doesn't state where they are
2021-01-26T01:38:54 < zyp> so there's multiple incompatible implementations
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2021-01-26T02:13:03 < aandrew> polish *and* autistic? jeez what a poor sob
2021-01-26T02:13:41 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-01-26T02:13:54 < Laurenceb> no wonder he ended up in prison for stick man drawings
2021-01-26T02:17:00 < Laurenceb> worst someone did at my school was drop a kid head first down the stairwell putting him in intensive care for 2 months
2021-01-26T02:17:07 < Laurenceb> not nearly as bad tbh
2021-01-26T02:18:09 < Laurenceb> it was very well done, they even made cardboard "bomb fins" for his legs
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2021-01-26T02:33:12 < kakium69> shieet
2021-01-26T02:33:24 < kakium69> that's crazy
2021-01-26T02:34:59 < kakium69> how did you survive Laurenceb?
2021-01-26T02:35:10 < Laurenceb> it wasnt me
2021-01-26T02:35:14 < Laurenceb> some random kid
2021-01-26T02:35:30 < Laurenceb> bullies turned him into "the human bomb"
2021-01-26T02:38:03 < kakium69> nowdays stairwells are fully caged then?
2021-01-26T02:38:12 < kakium69> windows too
2021-01-26T02:42:36 < Laurenceb> not in uk
2021-01-26T03:01:03 < BrainDamage> https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=comp.lang.ada/E9bNCvDQ12k/1tezW24ZxdAJ
2021-01-26T03:06:17 < kakium69> Laurenceb: terrible but can't help laughing
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2021-01-26T03:43:44 < englishman> is there a free-as-in-lunix pdf editor
2021-01-26T03:43:57 < englishman> i just want to delete blank pages and merge documents and stuff
2021-01-26T03:44:23 < zyp> let me know if you find one
2021-01-26T03:44:47 < zyp> last time I needed to do that I used some dumbware
2021-01-26T03:45:52 < englishman> theres a bunch of sotware but they all want monthy fees
2021-01-26T03:46:06 < englishman> of the very few that even allow a one time purchase, the cheapest is like 50usd
2021-01-26T03:47:54 < zyp> the shit I used was free, but a dumbed down version of some commercial shit
2021-01-26T03:49:13 < englishman> https://scarpetta.eu/pdfmixtool/
2021-01-26T03:49:20 < fenug> englishman, pdftk in the "if you can put up with the CLI interface it does everything" category
2021-01-26T03:49:46 < fenug> I use it to script some split/concat operations
2021-01-26T03:49:58 < zyp> ah, pdfsam was the shit I used
2021-01-26T03:50:05 < englishman> https://pdfsam.org/
2021-01-26T03:50:06 < englishman> yess
2021-01-26T03:50:07 < englishman> haha
2021-01-26T03:50:09 < zyp> had to browse to fifth page in google search before I found it
2021-01-26T03:50:09 < englishman> just found it
2021-01-26T03:50:21 < englishman> searching for "pdf mix tool windows"
2021-01-26T03:50:31 < zyp> wait, is it open source
2021-01-26T03:50:36 < englishman> thanks!
2021-01-26T03:50:50 < zyp> I don't remember it being open source
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2021-01-26T03:52:10 < zyp> huh
2021-01-26T03:52:13 < zyp> https://sejda.org/
2021-01-26T03:52:21 < zyp> this almost looks nice
2021-01-26T03:53:57 < englishman> the sedja.com software was one of the first i found, no free version or single-time-pay version
2021-01-26T03:54:18 < englishman> well no free version that did what i wanted
2021-01-26T03:55:12 < zyp> https://github.com/torakiki/sejda <- it's open source though
2021-01-26T03:55:51 < englishman> pdfsam basic should do what i want even if it's rather tedious
2021-01-26T03:56:51 < englishman> pdftk as well
2021-01-26T03:57:20 < englishman> https://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfshuffler/
2021-01-26T03:57:55 < englishman> this looks good
2021-01-26T03:58:26 < zyp> > sourceforge
2021-01-26T03:58:58 < zyp> anything still on sourceforge is probably dead as fuck
2021-01-26T03:59:26 < kakium69> developed to perfection*
2021-01-26T03:59:44 < zyp> apparently this is an updated fork of it: https://github.com/pdfarranger/pdfarranger
2021-01-26T04:00:18 < englishman> or this https://www.pdfshaper.com/features.html
2021-01-26T04:00:29 < englishman> nice, and windows binary
2021-01-26T04:00:40 < englishman> yep pdfarranger
2021-01-26T04:00:43 < englishman> is the one
2021-01-26T04:01:22 < zyp> apparently based on https://github.com/pikepdf/pikepdf which seems nice and maintained
2021-01-26T04:02:26 < englishman> very nice
2021-01-26T04:05:04 < englishman> i will sleep soundly tonight
2021-01-26T04:05:07 < englishman> thanks again
2021-01-26T04:11:59 < kakium69> happy 100M:th covid
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2021-01-26T04:52:13 < ds2> is there unofficial docs on how to drive/get data from the Pi CSI cams?
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2021-01-26T05:06:53 < Laurenceb> fucks sake
2021-01-26T05:06:57 < Laurenceb> lunix mint sucks
2021-01-26T05:07:04 < Laurenceb> muh keyboard has now broken twice
2021-01-26T05:07:38 < Laurenceb> have to turn virtual keyboard on/off to fix real keyboard
2021-01-26T05:18:04 < Laurenceb> lol uk met office want to charge me ukp700/weather station for full datasets
2021-01-26T05:18:07 < Laurenceb> yet this exists
2021-01-26T05:18:09 < Laurenceb> https://climexp.knmi.nl/selectdailyseries.cgi?id=someone@somewhere
2021-01-26T05:18:19 < Laurenceb> >someone@somewhere
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2021-01-26T07:37:55 < ds2> heh... the UK loves to charge... the ordinance survey maps are still $$$
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2021-01-26T10:12:55 < mawk> it's weird but these kinds of problems seem to never happen to people that know how to use linux: 04:07 <Laurenceb> have to turn virtual keyboard on/off to fix real keyboard
2021-01-26T10:13:04 < mawk> it's almost as if it's not linux's fault
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2021-01-26T10:44:30 < Steffanx> Lol. You see the pattern as well, mawk?
2021-01-26T10:48:30 < mawk> yes
2021-01-26T11:04:58 < srk> people that know how to linux go and file issues on bugtrackers or fix the bug instead :)
2021-01-26T11:05:03 < srk> anyway, linux mint? wtf
2021-01-26T11:21:42 < qyx> I was o_O too
2021-01-26T11:52:22 < Steffanx> Whats wrong with it mr srk?
2021-01-26T11:54:45 < srk> isn't that like wanna be more user-friendly ubuntu?
2021-01-26T11:56:20 < karlp> iirc, it wsa originally ubuntu - unity, + gnome... or something
2021-01-26T11:56:32 < srk> maybe 2021 will be the year of the linux desktop - libinput will grow from 1 to 2 maintainers
2021-01-26T11:59:03 < Steffanx> I believe its more than that srk.. also some Canonical shit filter
2021-01-26T12:00:43 < zyp> what's the shit if you wanna run desktop linux nowadays?
2021-01-26T12:01:13 < srk> depends on how hip you wanna be
2021-01-26T12:01:28  * karlp uses fedora, but I'd only really recommend ubu or fedora, plain, maintained, less fuckery.
2021-01-26T12:01:39 < zyp> I just signed the contract for $newjob, so I'll soon have a reason to run desktop linux again
2021-01-26T12:01:41 < karlp> the rest of it is for people who like the fuckery.
2021-01-26T12:01:50 < karlp> I'm told WSL2 is pretty good these days :)
2021-01-26T12:01:59 < zyp> yeah, but no
2021-01-26T12:02:27 < srk> karlp: except it corrupts ext4/git ? :)
2021-01-26T12:02:32 < mawk> I've always run debian with kde zyp 
2021-01-26T12:02:35 < mawk> it's looks beautiful
2021-01-26T12:02:41 < mawk> and it's not for hipsters
2021-01-26T12:02:52 < zyp> yeah, I'm also leaning towards debian
2021-01-26T12:02:53 < srk> KDE is indeed beautiful
2021-01-26T12:03:19 < srk> and extremely stable compared to gnome 3 :)
2021-01-26T12:03:57 < srk> if you like fuckery wayland/sway is popular
2021-01-26T12:04:14 < srk> +the rest of wayland alternatives to X progs
2021-01-26T12:04:25 < zyp> I don't want fuckery, I want something that works and have the features I need
2021-01-26T12:04:41 < srk> well, I'm using xmonad for like 10 years now :)
2021-01-26T12:04:53 < zyp> meh
2021-01-26T12:05:46 < zyp> but yeah, debian/kde is probably a good combo
2021-01-26T12:06:48 < zyp> also, what's the most reasonable solution for a virtualized windows on top of that?
2021-01-26T12:06:55 < srk> libvirt
2021-01-26T12:07:18 < srk> with virt-manager
2021-01-26T12:07:36 < zyp> at home I use macos with vmware for windows and that's working fine, so I just want something that works as well as that
2021-01-26T12:08:58 < srk> try it, it works quite well. virtualbox is also an option but I haven't had need for that at all
2021-01-26T12:10:41 < srk> Parsing SVDs from /nix/store/4bk9rc1nb8f5rpds4v3jjiv0x97jsjlm-data-stm32-db
2021-01-26T12:10:45 < srk> time for a coffee
2021-01-26T12:11:16 < karlp> I have virt-manager/libvirt for windows too, just using the ie edge test images.
2021-01-26T12:11:25 < karlp> worst bit is that libvirt networking is a fuckshow
2021-01-26T12:11:47 < srk> in what sense?
2021-01-26T12:11:54 < karlp> you can't bridge
2021-01-26T12:11:58 < srk> sure you can
2021-01-26T12:12:03 < karlp> you have to go and do all that externalyl by hand
2021-01-26T12:12:07 < karlp> it's a fucking disaster
2021-01-26T12:12:07 < srk> yep
2021-01-26T12:12:36 < karlp> "use this macvtap that might work in one direction, but not another and only in some weird situations that make sense for some developer somewhere but not anything normal and plain"
2021-01-26T12:12:52 < karlp> libvirt made the complicated easy, and the easy complicated for many things
2021-01-26T12:13:04 < karlp> vmware/virtbox just say, "networking->brdige to interface->drop down"
2021-01-26T12:13:39 < karlp> libvirt is like, "oh, pick these randome networking driver terms you've never heard off, that let you build virtual switches with automatic hairpins in places you didn't even consider"
2021-01-26T12:13:50 < karlp> "brdige? no.... you can enter an interface id by hand if you like"
2021-01-26T12:13:56 < srk> we have a NixOS module that can do static libvirt config, bridge iface, dhcpd, radvd, nat .. https://gitlab.com/otevrenamesta/otevrenamesta-cz-configuration/-/blob/master/modules/libvirt.nix
2021-01-26T12:14:14 < karlp> and then youv'e got cli setting up ip bridge shit and hoping link detection does the right thing (and it won't)
2021-01-26T12:14:25 < karlp> yeah, relying on someone else to splat cli command stogether hooked at the right time
2021-01-26T12:14:26 < srk> it's used in production, mostly to not rely on libvirts automagic which breaks in containers
2021-01-26T12:14:41 < karlp> you've got 200 lines of magic shit
2021-01-26T12:14:51 < srk> not at all :)
2021-01-26T12:14:54 < karlp> so, basically, we agree that libvirt works, but it's networking is shitstorm
2021-01-26T12:16:24 < srk> sort of :)
2021-01-26T12:16:40 < mawk> I never really understood why I should use libvirt
2021-01-26T12:16:52 < mawk> hand configuration is the easiest and quickest thing
2021-01-26T12:16:52 < srk> I now prefer declarative magic shit instead of programs doing their own stateful shit
2021-01-26T12:17:06 < karlp> mawk: hand config of what, machine xml files?
2021-01-26T12:17:11 < mawk> of network
2021-01-26T12:17:18 < karlp> I just want to use the gui and say, "bridge to -> drop down of interfaces"
2021-01-26T12:17:26 < mawk> configure bridges myself, NAT myself, and so on
2021-01-26T12:17:34 < karlp> if it' snot in virt-manager and working, it's fucking grossly complicated
2021-01-26T12:18:14 < mawk> it's hard to bridge when you're in a vm, so you have macvtap but you can't hairpin on it indeed
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2021-01-26T12:24:43 < upgrdman> trying to plan an analog frontend. on page 9 of this, why do the "scope buffer" opamps have resistors/capacitors? guessing it is to limit bandwidth (to reduce aliasing) ? what kind of equations help pick values for those R's and C's?  https://reference.digilentinc.com/_media/reference/instrumentation/analog-discovery-2/ad2_rm.pdf 
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2021-01-26T12:38:09 < srk> <description>0GPIO peripheral clock
2021-01-26T12:39:56 < srk> why there's AHB4ENR and C1_AHB4ENR on H7x3?
2021-01-26T12:40:18 < karlp> what's C1 in other contexts?
2021-01-26T12:40:22 < karlp> one for each cpu?
2021-01-26T12:41:17 < zyp> yes
2021-01-26T12:41:22 < srk> I think, dling ref manual. looks like 7x5 are two-core
2021-01-26T12:41:36 < zyp> stm32wb had a bunch of similar stuff, named C2
2021-01-26T12:43:08 < srk> `This register can be accessed via two different offset address.`
2021-01-26T12:43:35 < karlp> you asked us before even looking at the refman?!
2021-01-26T12:43:39 < karlp> fuck you
2021-01-26T12:43:45 < zyp> aren't they ORed or something?
2021-01-26T12:44:20 < srk> looks like just aliased
2021-01-26T12:44:30 < zyp> that doesn't prevent RMW races
2021-01-26T12:44:35 < zyp> ORing would
2021-01-26T12:45:34 < BrainDamage> upgrdman: to reduce noise, for stabillity and for offset current reasons
2021-01-26T12:46:37 < BrainDamage> + and - branches should 'see' the same impedance, for offset current reasons, bu that includes what's attached before
2021-01-26T12:46:42 < srk> uu
2021-01-26T12:46:43 < srk> `When CPU1 or CPU2 access RCC_DnxxxxxENR registers, the hardware detects which
2021-01-26T12:46:45 < srk> CPU did the access (core_id) in order to allocate the peripheral to the right CPU.`
2021-01-26T12:47:01 < zyp> «Most peripheral bus and kernel clocks can individually be enabled per CPU. The RCC_AHBxENR, and RCC_APBxENRy enable peripheral clocks for CPU1 and RCC_C2_AHBxENR, and RCC_C2_APBxENR for CPU2. The peripheral clocks will follow the CPU(s) state for which they are enabled, see Table 39.»
2021-01-26T12:47:04 < srk> for H7x5, you have a common one and C1_ C2_
2021-01-26T12:47:06 < zyp> from RM0434
2021-01-26T12:47:42 < BrainDamage> re: stability, you need to look at the datashit for the parasitic values / dominant poles
2021-01-26T12:47:53 < zyp> «When the peripheral bus clock is active the peripheral can be accessed by both CPUs regardless of which CPU has enabled the peripheral bus clock in its CPU xxxEN bit. However, when the peripheral bus clock is enabled by only one CPU, and this CPU enters low power mode, the peripheral bus clock will be stopped (also depending on this CPUs xxxSMEN setting) and peripheral access for the other CPU is no longer 
2021-01-26T12:47:59 < zyp> supported. It is therefor good practice to enable the peripheral bus clock with the CPU dedicated clock enable.»
2021-01-26T12:48:32 < BrainDamage> and for noise, well, you need to know the bandwith you're interested on
2021-01-26T12:48:35 < srk> fun, still not clear why there's C1 on H7x3
2021-01-26T12:49:02 < zyp> probably not exactly same as WB :)
2021-01-26T12:49:40 < srk> WL was added to cubemx it looks like. anyone played with em?
2021-01-26T12:50:46 < zyp> no, curious whether it also has CPU2 locked down
2021-01-26T12:51:31 < srk> w00t?
2021-01-26T12:51:41 < srk> WB has?
2021-01-26T12:51:45 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-26T12:51:51 < srk> for BL stack?
2021-01-26T12:52:03 < zyp> yes, you can only run signed blobs on it
2021-01-26T12:52:07 < srk> wow
2021-01-26T12:52:09 < srk> lol
2021-01-26T12:52:17 < srk> FCC strikes
2021-01-26T12:52:55 < srk> no reason for WL to have two cores, you just have sx127x hooked directly to one core and run soft wan stack if needed
2021-01-26T12:53:01 < zyp> I managed to brick CPU2 on my WB nucleo
2021-01-26T12:53:05 < srk> nice
2021-01-26T12:53:22 < mawk> nrf does it better
2021-01-26T12:53:25 < mawk> with the softdevices
2021-01-26T12:53:32 < zyp> nah
2021-01-26T12:53:33 < mawk> st didn't have to do it like this
2021-01-26T12:53:35 < mawk> why
2021-01-26T12:53:38 < mawk> it's pretty nice
2021-01-26T12:53:48 < zyp> I'd rather have the stack on a dedicated core than to have to negotiate cpu time with it
2021-01-26T12:53:57 < mawk> maybe
2021-01-26T12:54:02 < mawk> but still softdevice I mean
2021-01-26T12:54:06 < zyp> nrf53 looks appealing for that reason
2021-01-26T12:54:06 < mawk> a blob you can load yourself
2021-01-26T12:54:10 < srk> then you have to sync two, which is also hard
2021-01-26T12:54:18 < zyp> nah
2021-01-26T12:54:23 < mawk> also just double your cpu freq, and that's it
2021-01-26T12:54:23 < zyp> RPC is easy
2021-01-26T12:54:31 < mawk> or half your expectations
2021-01-26T12:54:32 < srk> distributed is never easy
2021-01-26T12:55:03 < srk> industrial adruino has something like that
2021-01-26T12:55:04 < srk> :D
2021-01-26T12:55:08 < srk> *rd
2021-01-26T12:55:23 < mawk> industrial arduino
2021-01-26T12:55:24 < zyp> I messed around with WB before all the documentation was published :p
2021-01-26T12:55:25 < mawk> is that a thing
2021-01-26T12:55:39 < mawk> I was invited to some workshop where I could get a free nucleo wb board
2021-01-26T12:55:41 < mawk> but I was too lazy to go
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2021-01-26T12:55:54 < mawk> probably ST banned me for life from workshops now
2021-01-26T12:55:57 < zyp> yeah, I talked to somebody who went to one
2021-01-26T12:56:00 < mawk> I signed up and haven't showed up
2021-01-26T12:56:15 < zyp> the free nucleo boards had ES silicon with unlocked CPU2
2021-01-26T12:56:25 < mawk> ah nice
2021-01-26T12:56:26 < BrainDamage> as if people skipping attendance is not a thing
2021-01-26T12:56:38 < mawk> they never sent any more workshop emails after
2021-01-26T12:56:48 < zyp> prerelease RM specified how to turn on and off the CPU2 security stuff
2021-01-26T12:56:49 < srk> I'm not sure if I want dual core H7, sounds fun but also gonna break a lot of assumptions 
2021-01-26T12:57:04 < srk> handy
2021-01-26T12:57:07 < zyp> but on release hardware it's forced on
2021-01-26T12:58:22 < srk> are these wifi/bl sdrs so wideband?
2021-01-26T12:58:41 < zyp> so, the thing is, to load the CPU2 blob, there's a bootloader-ish thing stored in a locked flash area that's responsible for decrypting and validating
2021-01-26T12:59:27 < zyp> and the way to unlock CPU2 was a sequence involving mass erase
2021-01-26T12:59:45 < zyp> normally mass erase doesn't touch the locked area, but when unlocking it erases all
2021-01-26T13:00:25 < zyp> so in my case I managed to erase all, but the lock is still forced on
2021-01-26T13:00:47 < zyp> so I still can't load my own code to CPU2, and I erased the bootloader that can load signed blobs
2021-01-26T13:01:05 < mawk> put the chip in xray machine until it flips the protection bit
2021-01-26T13:01:14 < zyp> :)
2021-01-26T13:01:22 < mawk> there was an attack like this
2021-01-26T13:01:29 < mawk> decap the stm32, put UV light or something energetic
2021-01-26T13:01:50 < srk> or glitch it till you flip the right lock bit
2021-01-26T13:06:52 < BrainDamage> Steffanx mawk  https://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-covid-19-patient-data-sold-on-the-criminal-underground/
2021-01-26T13:07:08 < mawk> lol
2021-01-26T13:07:23 < effractur> BrainDamage: it happend also in DE and some other countries
2021-01-26T13:07:32 < effractur> but we got everything in one IT system so its a bit easier :P
2021-01-26T13:07:36 < mawk> I'm probably in this database
2021-01-26T13:07:44 < mawk> I installed their useless application
2021-01-26T13:07:53 < mawk> which cannot run since there's not enough space on my device
2021-01-26T13:11:43 < Steffanx> Youre not in that database. This is about test results mawk. Did you get tested?
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2021-01-26T13:12:14 < mawk> it says contact tracing system
2021-01-26T13:12:18 < mawk> not just tests
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2021-01-26T13:12:24 < mawk> I did not get tested
2021-01-26T13:12:31 < mawk> I can't die
2021-01-26T13:15:41 < Steffanx> Also the app doesnt know your name.
2021-01-26T13:15:57 < Steffanx> Theyre probably referring to the manual contact tracing
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2021-01-26T13:17:11 < Steffanx> When you get convicted for COVID you have to be a snitch and tell about your friends
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2021-01-26T13:19:32 < mawk> lol
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2021-01-26T13:25:05 < karlp> this is cute: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/murata-power-solutions-inc/MYRGP330100W21RA/11503102
2021-01-26T13:30:58 < qyx> effractur: it happened here too, except here you were able to download for free :>
2021-01-26T13:32:31 < karlp> where's lolrence when you want him?
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2021-01-26T14:00:40 < kakium69> lurence is night animal
2021-01-26T14:00:45 -!- upgrdman_ [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-01-26T14:03:02 < Steffanx> Try a message on whateverchan karlp
2021-01-26T14:12:37 < englishman> that is very cute karlp 
2021-01-26T14:12:51 < englishman> i'm so happy that TI and murata are putting out more and more single chip switchers
2021-01-26T14:13:11 < englishman> so that you don't have to get some shit from LT for $40
2021-01-26T14:18:25 < karlp> I need a 3.8V or something switcher for fucking quacktel
2021-01-26T14:18:34 < karlp> but in theory they want 2A capacity, 
2021-01-26T14:18:41 < karlp> though I'm curious if just a few more caps isenough
2021-01-26T14:19:12 < karlp> englishman: price is pretty nice too, only $1.5 in singles even.
2021-01-26T14:19:23 < karlp> I mean, still crazy compared to china, but super nice integration
2021-01-26T14:20:56 < zyp> in real world projects, how much do you reconfigure the clocks after giving them an initial config?
2021-01-26T14:21:45 < zyp> I haven't ever done that, but then again all the stuff I've done have been simple enough that I haven't even bothered sleeping
2021-01-26T14:27:19 < englishman> using this in a project https://www.ti.com/product/TPS82085
2021-01-26T14:27:32 < englishman> super cute
2021-01-26T14:31:36 < zyp> I'm thinking about how to set up the clock tree and have devices know what clock they are running with for configuring dividers and stuff
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2021-01-26T14:34:09 < zyp> I guess the cleanest way may be to just have the user create a constexpr object that contains the full clock tree config, and then use that both for configuring the RCC and for getting peripheral input clock
2021-01-26T14:36:26 < srk> works for simple scenarios. I only specify clock source, pll config, hclk/pclk dividers and the rest is derived from that
2021-01-26T14:38:07 < srk> multipliers more like
2021-01-26T14:38:14 < zyp> I figure the advantage of a constexpr/template object is that it can be generated programmatically, so either user can specify details or have them derived automatically
2021-01-26T14:39:09 < zyp> e.g. sysclk can default to chip max, bus clock dividers can default to max speed with the given sysclk, and so on
2021-01-26T14:39:47 < srk> yup, that's what I use as defaults as well
2021-01-26T14:40:12 < srk> it can get hairy when you consider multiple PLLs and different inputs for periphs
2021-01-26T14:40:22 < srk> exclusive stuff, sat solving.. :D
2021-01-26T14:40:26 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/rcc/rcc.cpp <- either way it's not ending up worse than this :)
2021-01-26T14:40:45 < zyp> I'm not really interested in that
2021-01-26T14:41:03 < srk> https://github.com/HaskellEmbedded/ivory-tower-stm32-generated/blob/master/src/Ivory/BSP/STM32F1/ClockInit.hs
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2021-01-26T14:42:41 < zyp> if you have weird clock requirements you can specify the dividers yourself
2021-01-26T14:42:51 < srk> yep
2021-01-26T14:43:43 < srk> there was an attempt to figure this out from cmx data files at https://github.com/salkinium/save-the-clocktrees (from Clock Tree section here https://blog.salkinium.com/modm-devices/)
2021-01-26T14:44:02 < zyp> I guess my logic would look a bit like the last parameterized rcc_init() in the file I linked
2021-01-26T14:44:05 < srk> as cmx can even solve this for you, sometimes :)
2021-01-26T14:45:37 < srk> check this https://github.com/HaskellEmbedded/data-stm32/blob/master/src/Data/STM32/Clock.hs
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2021-01-26T14:54:04 < karlp> englishman: cute, that tps82085 is even on lcsc.com :)
2021-01-26T14:54:45 < karlp> zyp: yeah, that "full clock tree config" is what I'd started heading towards for locm3, but it actually becomes quite large, with all the peripheral clock options.
2021-01-26T14:55:22 < karlp> srk: what's cmx?
2021-01-26T14:55:33 < srk> cUBEmx 
2021-01-26T14:57:33 < zyp> karlp, true
2021-01-26T14:59:13 < zyp> karlp, I just figure that if the config is readonly then I can make it a compile time thing which inlines into the functions looking up stuff from the config
2021-01-26T14:59:50 < Thorn> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWNyHF46rw8
2021-01-26T15:00:56 < zyp> std::ratio seems convenient, seems beneficial to express all clock multipliers/dividers using that
2021-01-26T15:03:16 < karlp> I've also tended to view that peoplw dynamically changing things can do it all on their own with register accesses, no need to help them with that.
2021-01-26T15:03:32 < zyp> true
2021-01-26T15:04:07 < zyp> that's kinda the basis of laks
2021-01-26T15:04:11 < karlp> added remote access to our stuff, for factory images, have nice secure random passwords per device out of the box.
2021-01-26T15:04:13 < karlp> so far so good.
2021-01-26T15:04:33 < karlp> provided crednetials to let some legacy customers use it too, but told them, "this is now on the public internet, you need to choose _GOOD_ passwords"
2021-01-26T15:04:35 < zyp> «here's the registers», «here's some stuff to do things with the registers but feel free to ignore it and write them yourself if you want»
2021-01-26T15:04:43 < karlp> got asked to log on to one of them today....
2021-01-26T15:04:55 < karlp> password is ... very much not "good" in any sense of the word.
2021-01-26T15:04:59 < zyp> haha
2021-01-26T15:05:07 < zyp> well, not your problem :)
2021-01-26T15:05:14 < karlp> no, but still...
2021-01-26T15:05:39 < zyp> can't fix stupid
2021-01-26T15:06:16 < zyp> speaking of
2021-01-26T15:06:22 < mawk> the password in my last company was like OnlyR&D for all machines everywhere
2021-01-26T15:06:44 < karlp> at least the endpoint urls are still opaque enough they'll be "safe" for a while...
2021-01-26T15:06:50 < zyp> nowadays every wifi router comes preconfigured with some impossible to remember password
2021-01-26T15:07:16 < zyp> I'm always surprised people don't change them to something that's possible to remember
2021-01-26T15:07:48 < zyp> I think that's taking security too far again
2021-01-26T15:08:36 < karlp> yeah, I hated that, we use diceware/xkcd three word passwords
2021-01-26T15:08:57 < karlp> so they're unique, long enough, but can be typed sanely and remembered for a few minutes if need be.
2021-01-26T15:09:21 < karlp> can't stand the character soup bullshit.
2021-01-26T15:09:34 < zyp> IMO the point of wifi security is to keep opportunistic neighbours out and I live fine with my wifi being susceptible to dictionary attacks if somebody really wants to break in
2021-01-26T15:10:10 < karlp> hrm, you are, but they do have to err on the side of keeping people out of all the attached computers too, not just leechign bandwidth
2021-01-26T15:10:19 < karlp> at least they now come secure out of the box, normally.
2021-01-26T15:10:22 < zyp> true
2021-01-26T15:10:43 < karlp> not like any of them ever get patches anyway though
2021-01-26T15:11:07 < zyp> I view perimeter security as a crutch I don't want to rely on, so I'm not all that concerned about lan security at all
2021-01-26T15:11:30 < karlp> you're taking per device security heavily then or what?
2021-01-26T15:12:07 < karlp> backdoors in everything anyway. 
2021-01-26T15:12:32 < zyp> I've got a grand total of one windows computer on the lan, and that alone probably goes a long way :p
2021-01-26T15:12:45 < karlp> heh
2021-01-26T15:13:52 < mawk> 14:04 <karlp> password is ... very much not "good" in any sense of the word.
2021-01-26T15:13:56 < mawk> password is "bad" then?
2021-01-26T15:14:00 < zyp> :D
2021-01-26T15:15:55 < karlp> ok, device owner has agreeded to fix it. finally...
2021-01-26T15:16:14 < Thorn> zyp have you thought about how to best represent event structs with variable length data in c++? preferably without gcc extensions like struct wtf_read_response {wtf_addr addr; size_t length; uint8_t data[0];}
2021-01-26T15:16:46 < zyp> variable in what sense?
2021-01-26T15:20:30 < Thorn> you don't know at compile time how much data will be returned
2021-01-26T15:21:09 < zyp> and you're passing it by reference?
2021-01-26T15:21:23 < mawk> the [0] thing is cool though Thorn 
2021-01-26T15:21:26 < mawk> that's what I use
2021-01-26T15:21:35 < mawk> you can do [] and that's int he C standard but it's not as useful
2021-01-26T15:22:01 < mawk> [0] guarantees alignment and typing so on for you, it's perfect
2021-01-26T15:22:02 < srk> what does [0] do?
2021-01-26T15:22:10 < mawk> it gives a pointer after the struct
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2021-01-26T15:22:19 < mawk> so like the struct is just a header and you have actual data after it
2021-01-26T15:22:30 < srk> ty
2021-01-26T15:22:38 < mawk> you would use it like char buf[4096]; struct wtf_read_response *header = buf;
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2021-01-26T15:22:46 < mawk> then header->data points to just after the struct in the buffer
2021-01-26T15:22:47 < Thorn> zyp dunno
2021-01-26T15:22:51 < mawk> and it has the right type, the right alignment
2021-01-26T15:22:54 < srk> I see, fun
2021-01-26T15:23:03 < zyp> I mean, you can't pass by value without knowing the size
2021-01-26T15:23:29 < Thorn> yeah that is correct
2021-01-26T15:23:49 < zyp> if you're passing by reference, you can subclass it with a template argument for the size and let it implicitly cast to the parent
2021-01-26T15:24:06 < zyp> so you pass a reference to the parent without known size
2021-01-26T15:24:07 < Thorn> I mean there're multiple 'patterns', say you can put pointers to a static (or dynamic) buffer into the struct, similar to windows IRPs
2021-01-26T15:24:15 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-26T15:24:24 < zyp> C++20 has std::span which seems useful
2021-01-26T15:25:42 < Thorn> and I've got this https://github.com/pthorn/cortexm-lib/blob/master/include/cortexm-lib/arrayref.h
2021-01-26T15:27:01 < srk>  // TODO bounds check.. sounds most useful :D
2021-01-26T15:27:19 < zyp> that actually looks pretty similar
2021-01-26T15:27:42 < zyp> an unbounded std::span also stores a pointer and size
2021-01-26T15:27:52 < zyp> and has a subspan method similar to your slice
2021-01-26T15:28:33 < Thorn> is there a proper term for types like this one that are supposed to be passed by value everywhere?
2021-01-26T15:29:10 < zyp> you could almost call it a smart pointer
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2021-01-26T15:43:27 < karlp> zyp: have you looked at m33 much / v8-m?
2021-01-26T15:43:44 < karlp> the memory mapping for secure/nonsecure shit ballooooooons out wildly too
2021-01-26T15:44:10 < karlp> I gave up quickly when I thought I could just hack it up quickly for locm3
2021-01-26T15:58:35 < zyp> karlp, no, which part in particular?
2021-01-26T15:59:15 < zyp> ah, L5?
2021-01-26T16:02:38 < zyp> huh, interesting how the I/D-buses are replaced with a C-bus
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2021-01-26T16:08:36 < karlp> yar, l5
2021-01-26T16:08:44 < zyp> looking at the RM now
2021-01-26T16:09:19 < zyp> so everything are mapped in two alias areas
2021-01-26T16:10:02 < karlp> hrm, amazon (not the cheapest) looks like being about 1/10th the price of some of our last locally hosted stuff..
2021-01-26T16:10:40 < zyp> and I guess the secure areas are only accessible when in secure mode, and the insecure areas are only accessible when insecure access is allowed?
2021-01-26T16:10:59 < karlp> yeah,
2021-01-26T16:12:07 < zyp> sounds a bit roundabout vs just combining both checks and only allowing access if the cpu is in secure mode or insecure access is allowed
2021-01-26T16:12:31 < karlp> yeah, I got annoyed quickly at how I should really try and do things.
2021-01-26T16:12:43 < karlp> and "ignore secure mode" didn't seem like a good option.
2021-01-26T16:13:04 < karlp> this was particularly for locm3, where we currently have a pile of #defined peripheral base addresses for use.
2021-01-26T16:13:14 < zyp> wouldn't mean much difference to laks, honestly
2021-01-26T16:13:36 < mawk> what does laks mean
2021-01-26T16:13:39 < zyp> at least not for the non-aware peripherals
2021-01-26T16:13:45 < mawk> probably a foreigner's word
2021-01-26T16:13:54 < mawk> lax
2021-01-26T16:14:04 < mawk> dura laks sed laks
2021-01-26T16:14:32 < zyp> I guess I'd just make two instances of every periph and leave it to user code to pick the appropriate one for the desired mode
2021-01-26T16:15:51 < zyp> mawk, heh, «lax», never realized that
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2021-01-26T16:18:49 < zyp> laks is the norwegian word for salmon, but there's not really any meaning behind that
2021-01-26T16:19:53 < zyp> project needed a name and some random nondescriptive name won't ever face the problem of the scope of the project growing beyond the name
2021-01-26T16:20:35 < zyp> also it's short and not really used for any notable software
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2021-01-26T19:02:54 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/364359027662127114/803670818591604846/1611680446323.jpg Im making nickle plating solution so i can plate some custom FFC (cables). Putting electricity into water isnt scary at all!
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2021-01-26T19:33:56 < benishor> anyone managed to do proper through hole plating?
2021-01-26T19:34:16 < mawk> ask jlcpcb
2021-01-26T19:34:18 < benishor> diy ofc
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2021-01-26T19:35:15 < jpa-> i've seen it done, you can buy the materials, but looked so cumbersome that i wouldn't bother
2021-01-26T19:36:15 < karlp> put wire in hole solder one side, cut, solder other side....
2021-01-26T19:36:20 < karlp> tedddddious
2021-01-26T19:37:19 < jpa-> put wires in all holes, solder all top sides, solder all bottom sides
2021-01-26T19:41:30 < benishor> ah yes, the shoe lace method
2021-01-26T19:42:03 < benishor> I've heard about gels which can be passed through the via holes
2021-01-26T19:42:11 < benishor> and then cure the boards
2021-01-26T19:42:21 < benishor> anyone tried that out?
2021-01-26T19:43:59 < jpa-> without actual metal plating? sounds unreliable and high resistance
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2021-01-26T20:04:13 < zyp> sounds like a waste of time
2021-01-26T20:06:30 < zyp> when you can get decent protos for $nothing soldermasked and plated and all, you'd have to need it very urgently to justify doing it yourself
2021-01-26T20:10:10 < zyp> last time I etched a board myself was when I needed a dummy to tune a pcb antenna layout wrt the ground plane shape before fabbing the actual board
2021-01-26T20:10:39 < zyp> actual board was 4L, but a 2L dummy with antenna and ground planes worked nicely for tuning
2021-01-26T20:20:59 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-01-26T20:31:51 < jpa-> i etch 1-layer or 1.5layer stuff sometimes
2021-01-26T20:32:13 < jpa-> but no point overdoing the vias
2021-01-26T20:39:13 < BrainDamage> back when I bothered doing pcbs for vias I used copper rivets that I punched in
2021-01-26T20:40:44 < BrainDamage> you just place the copper rivets, put a paper sheet as backing, flip the board to see the tips protruding and you punch them down
2021-01-26T20:42:02 < BrainDamage> you get a sub-ohm connetion by itself, and if you add any solder or whatever it becomes quickly hard to measure on fractions of milliohm
2021-01-26T20:44:06 < BrainDamage> the main advantage over manually soldering a wire was that the procedure scaled pretty well
2021-01-26T20:44:54 < BrainDamage> and if you get an automatic center punch, it takes less than a s per via
2021-01-26T20:45:47 < BrainDamage> www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_24936.jpg
2021-01-26T20:46:17 < BrainDamage> it's also useful if you do metal/woodworking, or you plan to steal something by breaking glass
2021-01-26T20:47:18 < emeryth> my friend was pretty good at making 2-sided boards using those rivet vias https://www.bungard.de/en/consumables/consumables/rivets
2021-01-26T20:47:44 < BrainDamage> that's the same brand I used
2021-01-26T20:50:25 < emeryth> he modified a locking hand clamp to punch them
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2021-01-26T21:18:26 < Lux> BrainDamage: imo riveting isn't really that reliable
2021-01-26T21:18:44 < Lux> did it once and still had to rework one or 2
2021-01-26T21:19:11 < Lux> but all together that stuff is a total waste of time, just order your boards
2021-01-26T21:19:31 < BrainDamage> that's why I also stopped doing it
2021-01-26T21:19:38 < Lux> and rivets are HUGE
2021-01-26T21:20:12 < BrainDamage> boards become so cheap that if i want something urgent I can just pay the difference for fast service
2021-01-26T21:20:38 < BrainDamage> and it'd still be less effort and cost than diy
2021-01-26T21:20:46 < englishman> and less time
2021-01-26T21:20:51 < qyx> and less cost
2021-01-26T21:20:58 < qyx> *and less diy I meant
2021-01-26T21:20:58 < englishman> when you include trying to debug your shitty pcb
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2021-01-26T21:39:16 < aandrew> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/429491665/thermnetic-the-slimmest-antimicrobial-heated-base-layer?ref=467em2&token=d0449d6f
2021-01-26T21:39:30 < aandrew> who was doing that here... missed an opportunity to scam dickstarter people
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2021-01-26T21:58:34 < Steffanx> bitmask ^
2021-01-26T21:58:53 < bitmask> hehe
2021-01-26T21:59:46 < bitmask> cutting edge carbon fiber heating element hah
2021-01-26T22:00:06 < bitmask> that battery is so small
2021-01-26T22:00:42 < bitmask> it is eerily similar to mine
2021-01-26T22:02:09 < bitmask> 22W, yuck
2021-01-26T22:02:24 < bitmask> mine is like 30W per heater
2021-01-26T22:07:06 < aandrew> how is yours working? staying nice and warm?
2021-01-26T22:08:37 < bitmask> yea, im only using 2 heating panels at the moment, gotta move some stuff around since the third panel is on top of the batteries and thats no good
2021-01-26T22:09:02 < bitmask> its not great when its really cold out, but better than not having it, and its great when its just cold
2021-01-26T22:09:43 < bitmask> when its real cold you are still cold but a spot on your neck or chest is burning hah
2021-01-26T22:10:12 < aandrew> haha yeah I suspect that distribution of the heat is important
2021-01-26T22:10:12 < bitmask> so i gotta find a way to hold the heat in and spread out
2021-01-26T22:13:51 < BrainDamage> al foil
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2021-01-26T22:14:42 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/AhAScUK.png
2021-01-26T22:14:55 < BrainDamage> also https://www.amazon.it/ZYIKX-Warming-Lightweight-Heating-Electric/dp/B08K34H1NJ
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2021-01-26T22:19:27 < Steffanx> Yeah, aliexpress has those as well i think
2021-01-26T22:20:27 < aandrew> cu foil would be nice
2021-01-26T22:20:31 < aandrew> kinda krinkly though
2021-01-26T22:20:53 < aandrew> I wonder if you can make like copper ring chain mail
2021-01-26T22:21:07 < BrainDamage> I bet the kickstarter guys are just repourposing some off the shelf product made by some unknown chinese company
2021-01-26T22:21:17 < aandrew> I knew a guy who got into making chain mail, and got really good at it, he was making custom shit for role players and a LOT for strippers 
2021-01-26T22:22:03 < BrainDamage> I see no problem, other than the weight
2021-01-26T22:22:28 < BrainDamage> copper is ductile, and stiff copper wires exis
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2021-01-26T23:09:06 < aandrew> no, copper foil would be krinkly, copper mail though would work
2021-01-26T23:09:53 < aandrew> and actually if you could use copper and something like nylon or other hard plastic you could concievably make the copper in a pattern that you could use the copper mail as the heating element
2021-01-26T23:16:14 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55796445
2021-01-26T23:16:16 < Laurenceb> keeek
2021-01-26T23:16:26 < Laurenceb> >trick them into building hs2 rail tunnels
2021-01-26T23:22:55 < BrainDamage> aandrew: I meant for the mail
2021-01-26T23:24:26 < aandrew> lol
2021-01-26T23:24:28 < aandrew> > I would sacrifice everything for the climate ecological emergency
2021-01-26T23:24:35 < aandrew> digs tunnel to prevent high speed mass transit line
2021-01-26T23:33:59 < BrainDamage> ecologists on that level aren't really goal oriented, rather, they are focused on their own belief set not unlike religion
2021-01-26T23:34:25 < BrainDamage> so they end up with ad-hoc rules on what's ok and not, typically completely arbitrary
2021-01-26T23:34:58 < BrainDamage> sometimes they fight a just cause, but most of the times they are absolutely mislead
2021-01-26T23:37:04 < bitmask> well that took forever and didnt work...
2021-01-26T23:37:11 < bitmask> tried to make a mirror
2021-01-26T23:37:43 < bitmask> didnt come out shiny enough
2021-01-26T23:37:51 < bitmask> and it rubs right off
2021-01-26T23:38:37 < bitmask> oh well, it was only $3 worth of silver
2021-01-26T23:40:12 < BrainDamage> did you go the silver nitrate route?
2021-01-26T23:40:20 < BrainDamage> I did that long long time ago
2021-01-26T23:41:03 < karlp> Laurenceb: hey, is this a scam or what? https://www.alor.is/?lang=en
2021-01-26T23:42:02 < Laurenceb> seems sane tbh
2021-01-26T23:42:06 < Laurenceb> lots of bs on the site tho
2021-01-26T23:42:16 < bitmask> yea 
2021-01-26T23:42:39 < karlp> yeah, I'm not coninced that building batteries in iceland and shipping them back out can ever realyl be very cost effective
2021-01-26T23:42:39 < Laurenceb> imo manganese/zinc is the way to go, but only if lithium ion doesnt come down in price a load over the next ten years
2021-01-26T23:42:56 < karlp> and it seems to be selling itself more on how well it can make business deals.
2021-01-26T23:43:11 < Laurenceb> quite a few researchers have managed to make mildly acidic manganese zinc batteries work
2021-01-26T23:43:25 < Laurenceb> similar to alkaline batteries but with a different ph
2021-01-26T23:43:27 < karlp> they're making a big deal about providing backup power to towns for power security 
2021-01-26T23:43:53 < Laurenceb> manganese zinc could work out at <$40/kwhr
2021-01-26T23:44:01 < Laurenceb> and its high trl
2021-01-26T23:44:08 < karlp> seems like it would be substantially cheaper to actually fix the distribution grid redundancy and capacity, rather than dropping 40ft container batteries around the place
2021-01-26T23:44:14 < Laurenceb> aluminium batteries have had little development
2021-01-26T23:44:32 < Laurenceb> but lithium is currently coming down in price so it seems more sensible to see what happens
2021-01-26T23:44:32 < karlp> yeah, they claim to be leveraging some spanish pilot, with ~zero information on it either
2021-01-26T23:44:54 < Laurenceb> some predict lithium could get to <$40/kwhr, at which point its hard to compete with
2021-01-26T23:45:14 < Laurenceb> but if it doesnt then there are lots of high trl alternatives
2021-01-26T23:45:17 < BrainDamage> would those be primary or secondary cells?
2021-01-26T23:45:42 < Laurenceb> like sodium sulphur, advanced lead acid, or manganese zinc (my favourite)
2021-01-26T23:45:44 < BrainDamage> because Al takes of a fuckload of energy to reduce from bauxite ...
2021-01-26T23:46:42 < karlp> https://www.albufera-energystorage.com/index.php/aluminio-carbono/?lang=en the tech behind it seems to hav eprojects for AlS, secondary, as well as Al-Air primary
2021-01-26T23:47:03 < karlp> I'm fairly convinced it's a scam with well connected backers at this stage
2021-01-26T23:47:05 < aandrew> that site is pretty low on information
2021-01-26T23:47:33 < Laurenceb> but no matter what the storage technology, it gets really expensive really rapidly if you need multiple days of storage
2021-01-26T23:47:37 < aandrew> I was tangentially involved with some people in chicago working on metal foam batteries
2021-01-26T23:47:48 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/CCR6uRs
2021-01-26T23:47:50 < karlp> it's got some ex ministor running it, and I'm realllllly unconcinvced it can be viable todo battery production factoryin iceland with 100% imported here
2021-01-26T23:47:50 < bitmask> its a starting point at least
2021-01-26T23:47:51 < Laurenceb> thats where stratosolar comes in
2021-01-26T23:48:09 < Laurenceb> you only need one day of storage so the cost goes way down
2021-01-26T23:48:17 < karlp> or, fixing dist grid reliability
2021-01-26T23:48:35 < karlp> they're really playing that up here, but it's left hand vs right hand.
2021-01-26T23:49:12 < Laurenceb> >Lithium is a very rare element found in very low concentrations in rocks and brines
2021-01-26T23:49:22 < Laurenceb> not really true, there is quite a lot in sea water
2021-01-26T23:49:57 < aandrew> Laurenceb: it's pretty low conc though isn't it? you'd need to process a lot of seawater to pull it out in volume
2021-01-26T23:50:36 < Laurenceb> yeah it'd still be expensive
2021-01-26T23:50:55 < Laurenceb> sodium sulphur has prob the cheapest and most available materials
2021-01-26T23:51:16 < Laurenceb> but it needs a complex seperator
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2021-01-26T23:54:55 < aandrew> bleh
2021-01-26T23:54:56 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/JmJIYpY
2021-01-26T23:55:08 < aandrew> my rate of charge is slightly faster than my rate of discharge under normal use
2021-01-26T23:55:13 < aandrew> not sure if that's a godo thing or bad thing
2021-01-26T23:59:37 < karlp> so... stm32 q, g4 has dac3 and dac4, whicah can do 15MSPS, but have no pin connection. what are they for? colouring adc data on arrival or something?
--- Day changed Wed Jan 27 2021
2021-01-27T00:00:19 < qyx> I was curious too
2021-01-27T00:00:33 < aandrew> is there a higher pin count version that gives them outputs?
2021-01-27T00:00:34 < aandrew> that is weird
2021-01-27T00:00:54 < qyx> iirc they were usable for comp inputs
2021-01-27T00:01:24 < karlp> or are you meant to use them to dma patterns to timers or what
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2021-01-27T00:18:18 < Laurenceb> is there an stm32 with LVDS input?
2021-01-27T00:19:31 < aandrew> not that I'm aware of
2021-01-27T00:19:38 < qyx> no
2021-01-27T00:19:59 < qyx> they were some talks on the interwebs
2021-01-27T00:20:15 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-01-27T00:20:31 < qyx> they finally added MIPI DSI but no inputs
2021-01-27T00:23:06  * Laurenceb was looking at some sweet AD ADCs
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2021-01-27T00:37:43 < karlp> hrm, I could swear my computer is louder now with the new mobo.
2021-01-27T00:37:55 < karlp> I wonder if it's just dust cleared out so it's not muffled anymore
2021-01-27T00:38:10 < karlp> or whether it's not lubed properly anymore, so the fan's running more to keep it cool
2021-01-27T00:40:18 < Steffanx> What about fan settings..?
2021-01-27T00:41:08 < Steffanx> Higher speeds at lower temps configured?
2021-01-27T00:42:13 < karlp> in the bios? maybe
2021-01-27T00:55:54 < karlp> somehow 
2021-01-27T00:56:18 < karlp> somehow I've lost hibernate/hybrid sleep option from the gnome menu too
2021-01-27T00:58:54 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-27T00:58:59 < zyp> async ringbuffer queue: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/PpZg4
2021-01-27T00:59:32 -!- dobson [~dobson@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-01-27T00:59:36 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JgePG.png <- works like expected :)
2021-01-27T01:00:08 < zyp> put/get are irq-safe
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2021-01-27T01:10:29 < zyp> karlp, lines 59 on are user code, how does it look?
2021-01-27T01:17:25 < qyx> I just youtubed the last hour
2021-01-27T01:17:35 < qyx> I'll block that thing
2021-01-27T01:17:45 < zyp> hah
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2021-01-27T01:27:25 < qyx> kicad moved symbols to gitlab?
2021-01-27T01:27:47 < qyx> also, no stm21mp1 symbol
2021-01-27T01:29:28 < zyp> not maker enough
2021-01-27T01:30:24 < qyx> hm, is 16bit/32bit dram width impacting performance much?
2021-01-27T01:31:37 < zyp> I don't really know, but I'd guess pretty much same latency but half throughput
2021-01-27T01:31:48 < zyp> so it'd depend a lot on the workload
2021-01-27T01:33:33 < zyp> considering dram is read in bursts, I figure half width means half the burst size, and then it depends on how much of the bursted data you're actually making use of
2021-01-27T01:34:07 < qyx> reading some paper
2021-01-27T01:34:38 < qyx> a7 with 430MHz 32bit is comparable to a9 with 528 MHz 64bit (memory)
2021-01-27T01:35:07 < qyx> https://inspirehep.net/files/c4784914fa5fdd8cd0c2813c1f59e4e7
2021-01-27T01:37:10 < zyp> interesting numbers
2021-01-27T01:37:30 < qyx> looks like allwinner A20 is performing very good regarding cache latency
2021-01-27T01:40:06 < qyx> I'll try to route 32bit lpddr3
2021-01-27T01:40:13 < qyx> if I fail I'll fallback to 16 bit
2021-01-27T01:42:06 < zyp> 2x16?
2021-01-27T01:42:23 < qyx> yeah if possible
2021-01-27T01:42:30 < qyx> if not, 1x16
2021-01-27T01:42:44 < qyx> but I need BGA448 for 2x16
2021-01-27T01:42:49 < qyx> they say 6L is needed
2021-01-27T01:43:56 < zyp> sounds reasonable
2021-01-27T01:47:00 < qyx> it is still $$$
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2021-01-27T01:51:49 < qyx> is there a way to get a table of all pins?
2021-01-27T01:51:55 < qyx> wasn't that in svd files?
2021-01-27T01:52:09 < zyp> of mp1?
2021-01-27T01:52:19 < zyp> which mp1?
2021-01-27T01:53:15 < qyx> oh there is a BSDL file
2021-01-27T01:53:19 < qyx> MP153
2021-01-27T01:53:47 < zyp> yeah, bsdl has that
2021-01-27T02:03:14 < qyx> found no tool so far
2021-01-27T02:09:57 < zyp> tool? for bsdl?
2021-01-27T02:10:29 < zyp> looks like reasonably plain text, shouldn't take more than a few minutes to massage it and copypaste it into a spreadsheet
2021-01-27T02:17:25 < t4nk_freenode> mmmmm I wanted to use swo with my stlinkv2 clone, for some better debugging, would be a nice addition,  *sigh* but it's so darned small to solder
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2021-01-27T02:32:51 < kakium69> hello night
2021-01-27T02:33:35 < kakium69> tried mxlinux
2021-01-27T02:33:59 < kakium69> screen went to shit even in windows
2021-01-27T02:34:19 < kakium69> needed some cold shutdown time to recover
2021-01-27T02:35:04 < zyp> ok
2021-01-27T02:35:28 < kakium69> something with intel uhd probs
2021-01-27T02:36:40 < kakium69> yeah I didn't get a desktop and then I went to mint and it worked fine
2021-01-27T02:37:07 < kakium69> to perform dd to new ssd
2021-01-27T02:40:04 < qyx> nah windows \r\n
2021-01-27T02:40:17  * qyx lost 10 minutest persuading awk to cooperate
2021-01-27T02:44:28 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/AeIMM/Screenshot_2021-01-27_01-44-09.png
2021-01-27T02:44:31 < qyx> nearly there
2021-01-27T02:44:35 < qyx> I fukd x and y a bit
2021-01-27T02:44:49 < kakium69> what is that
2021-01-27T02:44:57 < zyp> kicad symbol
2021-01-27T02:44:59 < qyx> a 354 pin bga
2021-01-27T02:45:01 < zyp> pro quality
2021-01-27T02:45:09 < kakium69> indeed
2021-01-27T02:45:27 < kakium69> I didn't see it first
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2021-01-27T03:12:05 < kakium69> oh yes youtube musics works
2021-01-27T03:12:51 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-27T03:24:37 < kakium69> it just knows
2021-01-27T03:25:37 < kakium69> it just somehow knows what music I would like to hear and then bakes some playlists for me
2021-01-27T03:25:47 < mawk> it's in your brain
2021-01-27T03:25:55 < mawk> nanomachines implanted by your last vaccine
2021-01-27T03:26:47 < kakium69> yes it ruined my taste of musics
2021-01-27T03:36:50 < kakium69> copying data from my sata3 m.2 ssd
2021-01-27T03:36:56 < kakium69> it's hilariously slow
2021-01-27T03:37:54 < qyx> finished, 2 hours for that damned symbol
2021-01-27T03:38:21 < qyx> and now, the BGA part
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2021-01-27T03:47:09 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-27T03:47:45 < zyp> looking at orbuculum now, kinda interested in tracing the async code
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2021-01-27T03:52:46 < qyx> hm, it is huge https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NyQzW/Screenshot_2021-01-27_02-52-23.png
2021-01-27T03:53:04 < zyp> nah, it's just your board that's small
2021-01-27T03:53:25 < qyx> I'll use every mm2
2021-01-27T03:53:33 < zyp> is that the smallest package with a reasonable pitch?
2021-01-27T03:53:43 < qyx> yeah
2021-01-27T03:53:49 < qyx> I gave up doing 32bit lpddr
2021-01-27T03:53:58 < qyx> I would need 448 pads
2021-01-27T03:54:16 < zyp> ah
2021-01-27T03:54:22 < qyx> I would like to fit a couple of other things there too
2021-01-27T03:54:33 < qyx> dual emmc, the lpddr itself, qspi
2021-01-27T04:01:54 < qyx> wtf there are errors in the bsdl
2021-01-27T04:02:10 < qyx> how the hell is that possible
2021-01-27T04:02:17 < zyp> :D
2021-01-27T04:02:19 < qyx> were they written manually or what
2021-01-27T04:02:37 < qyx> there is no such fucking pad AA22 on BGA354
2021-01-27T04:02:56 < qyx> it is a 19x19 grid
2021-01-27T04:04:00 < qyx> there is DDR_DQM0, DQM1 and for some reason DQM3
2021-01-27T04:04:26 < zyp> sounds like somebody forgot to remove it
2021-01-27T04:04:50 < qyx>          "DDR_RET_N  : 189," &
2021-01-27T04:04:56 < qyx> but but
2021-01-27T04:07:55 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/J7ixF/Screenshot_2021-01-27_03-07-33.png
2021-01-27T04:08:05 < qyx> I am not quite sure where am I supposed to put the caps
2021-01-27T04:08:18 < zyp> bottom :)
2021-01-27T04:08:35 < zyp> what pitch is this? 0.8?
2021-01-27T04:08:45 < qyx> yeah but they won't fit in the space between GNDs
2021-01-27T04:08:47 < qyx> yes
2021-01-27T04:09:24 < zyp> should be able to fit 0402s
2021-01-27T04:09:25 < qyx> apparently not possible with 0603
2021-01-27T04:10:33 < zyp> this is under that fpga thing I were working on last year: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CeAN1.png
2021-01-27T04:10:52 < zyp> also 0.8
2021-01-27T04:11:02 < qyx> 0402?
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2021-01-27T04:11:06 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T04:11:28 < qyx> meh so I should order some 100n and 1u for a proto
2021-01-27T04:11:54 < qyx> I have some spare 0201 bu t I hardly see them
2021-01-27T04:11:58 < kakium69> hmm musics went to quite dark and spooky
2021-01-27T04:12:14 < kakium69> I see if I can train the ai
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2021-01-27T05:40:57 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/518610865520377856/803607103155339284/image0.jpg
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2021-01-27T06:14:50 < jadew> fucking stupid state employees
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2021-01-27T06:15:12 < jadew> they made a fucking bank account that uses I in the middle of the fucking bank number
2021-01-27T06:15:33 < jadew> I've never seen random letters in a bank number before
2021-01-27T06:15:40 < jadew> and they chose to use fucking I
2021-01-27T06:16:26 < jadew> after I figured out what was going wrong, I googled the account number and they have a page explaining how the 1 next to the other 1 is a fucking I
2021-01-27T06:16:30 < jadew> https://www.afm.ro/contact.php
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2021-01-27T06:18:40 < jadew> I would really like to meet the person responsible for that and ask them why are they so fucking stupid?
2021-01-27T06:19:04 < aandrew> lol
2021-01-27T06:19:25 < aandrew> normally I and O and L and Q are avoided
2021-01-27T06:19:36 < jadew> aandrew, I would think so too
2021-01-27T06:19:48 < aandrew> I remember waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back the commodore 64 user port connector was numbered goofy
2021-01-27T06:20:00 < aandrew> 123456789ABCDEFHJKMNP type thing
2021-01-27T06:20:10 < jadew> not only that, someone else decided to just make a page explaining the issue, rather than just ask for a new bank account, it's not like they're paying for it
2021-01-27T06:20:15 < aandrew> I figured out on my own that they skipped letters that were close to numbers in shape
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2021-01-27T06:24:34 < jadew> oh, and btw, the transfer I had to make was of about ~0.5 USD
2021-01-27T06:25:28 < jadew> I don't know what the fees for a bank transfer are, but I imagine they're higher than that
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2021-01-27T09:47:00 < upgrdman> how can an op amp GBP be LESS THAN its -3dB bandwidth? isn't GBP the -3dB freq if gain=1 ?
2021-01-27T10:00:28 < jadew> no
2021-01-27T10:01:01 < jadew> GBP is when the gain is 1 (aka, no longer useful)
2021-01-27T10:01:44 < jadew> ah, wait 
2021-01-27T10:01:47 < jadew> this is for an opamp
2021-01-27T10:01:49 < jadew> hmm
2021-01-27T10:04:28 < jadew> no, wiki says that's correct
2021-01-27T10:06:57 < jadew> any ideas on weather cheap chinese PCB houses can do 0.1 mm spacing between tracks?
2021-01-27T10:07:23 < jadew> they say 0.15, but what happens if I make one with 0.1 mm spacing?
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2021-01-27T10:39:02 < zyp> jadew, I'd expect them to check the file and reject it
2021-01-27T10:40:10 < zyp> also, jlcpcb will do <0.1mm on 4L and their 4L is so cheap now that you might as well just do that
2021-01-27T10:40:30 < jadew> good to know, I'll look into that
2021-01-27T10:40:41 < jadew> thanks
2021-01-27T10:41:11 < jpa-> jlcpcb won't produce below their specs, they'll just refuse the file
2021-01-27T10:44:26 < jpa-> and the 0.09mm spec is conditional, if you layout a lot of tracks below 0.1mm, they'll refuse the file also - probably yield issues
2021-01-27T10:44:39 < jpa-> a lot of tracks at 0.1mm seemed to be fine though
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2021-01-27T11:18:29 < qyx> 0.1 is okish for them?
2021-01-27T11:18:41 < qyx> didn't they differentiate inner and outer layers?
2021-01-27T11:19:52 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T11:20:03 < zyp> 5/5 on inner, 3.5/3.5 on outer
2021-01-27T11:20:43 < qyx> I'll keep 5/5, it is enough for 0.8 mm pitch
2021-01-27T11:20:57 < qyx> wat zyp, you don't sleep too?
2021-01-27T11:21:29 < zyp> no time for sleep
2021-01-27T11:26:05 < qyx> hm where should I post tah bdsm bugreport to
2021-01-27T11:26:52 < zyp> wat
2021-01-27T11:26:56 < zyp> ah
2021-01-27T11:27:09 < zyp> do you expect ST to listen?
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2021-01-27T11:38:00 < Steffanx> Lol unfortunate typo or... qyx? :D
2021-01-27T11:38:31 < Steffanx> Or are you really torturing the poor STM
2021-01-27T11:38:51 < jadew> sounds like it's the other way around
2021-01-27T11:43:26 < zyp> bdsm, bsdl, what's the difference?
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2021-01-27T13:46:51 < karlp> Steffanx: good call, switched bios fan control from "standard" to "silent" and it'smuch betternow,temps seem same...
2021-01-27T14:02:15 < karlp> qyx: that dude who did lots of SoCs had some chat about 16 vs 32bit memory, letm e see if I can dig it up
2021-01-27T14:04:05 < karlp> https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/ somewhere...
2021-01-27T14:06:32 < karlp> hrm, cant find it there, must have been in something else
2021-01-27T14:06:37 < karlp> sory, will try and find it out
2021-01-27T14:07:10 < karlp> he does say that 1x16 is _much_ easier than 2x16 though
2021-01-27T14:09:02 < karlp> qyx: why doyou need dual emmc?
2021-01-27T14:09:10 < karlp> especialyl dual emmc _and_ qspi?
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2021-01-27T14:39:06 < kakium69> hello afternoons
2021-01-27T14:41:07 < kakium69> ah reboot>
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2021-01-27T14:51:42 < qyx> karlp: dual emmc for 1:1 and qspi because mp1 doesn't support booting from all sdmmc peripherals
2021-01-27T14:52:01 < qyx> (so u-boot goes to qspi making the thing harder to brick)
2021-01-27T15:15:02 < karlp> 1:1 meaning what?
2021-01-27T15:15:33 < dempri> I am using ST-Link Utility to connect to a STM32F37xx and I was wondering if I could just copy the Device Memory to another STM32F37xx to copy all the functions
2021-01-27T15:15:56 < PaulFertser> dempri: if the target is not locked from reading
2021-01-27T15:16:24 < dempri> I am at address 0x08000000 and I can see data until 0x08001C70
2021-01-27T15:16:28 < dempri> then it continues with FFFFFFF
2021-01-27T15:16:37 < PaulFertser> dempri: probably a rather small firmware then
2021-01-27T15:16:51 < dempri> will it be enough to save this as a binary and copy to another?
2021-01-27T15:16:52 < dempri> yes
2021-01-27T15:17:10 < dempri> it might be rather small
2021-01-27T15:17:11 < PaulFertser> dempri: you can try. Probably there're also non-default option bytes to enable hardware watchdog.
2021-01-27T15:17:22 < dempri> can I "read" them as well?
2021-01-27T15:17:28 < PaulFertser> dempri: I suggest to check the whole flash memory region, not just the non-blank beginning.
2021-01-27T15:17:37 < dempri> what is the whole flash memory region?
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2021-01-27T15:18:07 < dempri> sorry irc crashed
2021-01-27T15:18:12 < dempri> what do you mean by whole flash region?
2021-01-27T15:18:17 < PaulFertser> dempri: all of the flash
2021-01-27T15:18:22 < dempri> starting from 0x080 ?
2021-01-27T15:18:30 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T15:18:31 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-01-27T15:18:55 < dempri> ok, so just check if there is anything else after 080001c80
2021-01-27T15:19:00 < dempri> got it
2021-01-27T15:20:43 < dempri> i noticed errors like these:  Failed to read memory @080C1E7C! does that mean I am trying to access address space outside of my physical flash or could it be broken?
2021-01-27T15:21:50 < PaulFertser> dempri: don't you know exactly what's the size of the flash?
2021-01-27T15:22:01 < dempri> 256 Kbytes
2021-01-27T15:22:41 < zyp> 256k is 0x40000
2021-01-27T15:22:50 < dempri> yes
2021-01-27T15:23:12 < dempri> ah
2021-01-27T15:23:15 < zyp> so flash is mapped until 0x8040000
2021-01-27T15:23:49 < dempri> yea it said size as the limit
2021-01-27T15:23:52 < dempri> not address
2021-01-27T15:24:49 < dempri> so saving these 256 kb and copying it to another stm of the same model might work then
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2021-01-27T15:28:41 < dempri> well thanks, that actually helped a lot already
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2021-01-27T15:47:55 < mawk> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbidschieten wtf is that Steffanx 
2021-01-27T15:48:01 < mawk> what do dutchies have with fire and explosions
2021-01-27T15:53:59 < Steffanx> Its fun. Explosions.
2021-01-27T15:54:31 < effractur> nitraatje er bij
2021-01-27T15:56:45 < kakium69> is it like potato cannon
2021-01-27T15:57:08 < zyp> actually doing something useful with my async stuff; I started building a shell framework: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/XE7aI
2021-01-27T15:58:05 < mawk> more or less kakium69 
2021-01-27T15:58:21 < zyp> still missing the command line handling logic in shell_task, just got the io interface and command classes
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2021-01-27T16:02:00 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-01-27T16:02:06 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-01-27T16:02:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55822645
2021-01-27T16:02:23 < Laurenceb> the face of autism
2021-01-27T16:02:50  * Laurenceb has a jerb
2021-01-27T16:03:42 < mawk> where Laurenceb 
2021-01-27T16:03:48 < englishman> a real job or one of those jobs where you don't get paid and fuck around on irc all day
2021-01-27T16:04:01 < Laurenceb> prob the second one of course
2021-01-27T16:04:08 < jadew> congrats Laurenceb
2021-01-27T16:04:11 < Laurenceb> building hyperloop
2021-01-27T16:04:17 < mawk> lol
2021-01-27T16:04:21 < jadew> really?
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2021-01-27T16:04:29 < Laurenceb> yup
2021-01-27T16:04:34 < mawk> you can prank elon for us
2021-01-27T16:04:39 < jadew> they didn't do a background check for all the shit you talk about tesla?
2021-01-27T16:04:40 < mawk> at virgin hyperloop Laurenceb ?
2021-01-27T16:04:54 < Laurenceb> nope
2021-01-27T16:04:59 < Laurenceb> a shed near my house
2021-01-27T16:04:59 < mawk> where then
2021-01-27T16:05:01 < mawk> lol
2021-01-27T16:05:09 < mawk> you're never getting paid
2021-01-27T16:05:15 < Laurenceb> some startup guys were working on basically my hyperloop idea
2021-01-27T16:05:23 < Laurenceb> mine cart in a sewer pipe
2021-01-27T16:05:33 < jadew> that's nice Laurenceb, hope you'll enjoy it
2021-01-27T16:05:40 < Laurenceb> yeah it sounds fun
2021-01-27T16:05:58 < Laurenceb> they have a few million bucks
2021-01-27T16:06:34 < Laurenceb> so far they have made a modified tram... thing
2021-01-27T16:07:55 < Laurenceb> which they think they can run at 400mph
2021-01-27T16:08:04 < Laurenceb> that might end badly
2021-01-27T16:08:15 < qyx> karlp: mirror
2021-01-27T16:09:30 < Laurenceb> it has tesla battery packs and stuff
2021-01-27T16:10:51 < jadew> Laurenceb, is it bigger than elon's hyperloop?
2021-01-27T16:11:00 < jadew> the tube
2021-01-27T16:11:38 < Laurenceb> there is no clear plan for the tube atm, it'd just be concrete sewer type pipe
2021-01-27T16:11:54 < Laurenceb> they are working on the drive and active steering system
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2021-01-27T16:12:45 < mawk> what will be different from a subway
2021-01-27T16:12:50 < mawk> or a bus in a tunnel
2021-01-27T16:13:07 < Laurenceb> normal high speed rail needs really wide turning radii and precise track alignment
2021-01-27T16:13:09 < karlp> heh, can't install openssl1.1 in amazon linux 2, so no tls 1.3...
2021-01-27T16:13:16 < Laurenceb> with active steering its much easier
2021-01-27T16:13:17 < kakium69> use sewers as human transport
2021-01-27T16:13:33 < Laurenceb> mawk: 500mph bus in a tunnel
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2021-01-27T16:14:13 < Laurenceb> also if high speed rail derails everyone dies, if this derails it scrapes the paintwork
2021-01-27T16:14:49 < jadew> at 500 mph, I think it scrapes the people too
2021-01-27T16:15:08 < mawk> compile it kakium69 
2021-01-27T16:15:10 < mawk> karlp: *
2021-01-27T16:15:26 < mawk> or find a random .rpm on a shady website
2021-01-27T16:15:40 < Laurenceb> you can use pyrotechnic "brake arms" and stuff
2021-01-27T16:15:43 < karlp> what? no, fuck that.
2021-01-27T16:15:51 < karlp> I dont give a shit abotu tls 1.3
2021-01-27T16:16:01 < karlp> wasjust curious why it wasn't showing up as "yes" on this ssl test.
2021-01-27T16:16:06 < mawk> then you get a bad rating on sslcheck.com and TLS nerds will hunt you down
2021-01-27T16:16:24 < mawk> they all hang out on ##networking 
2021-01-27T16:17:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.pavilionbooks.com/contributor/blue-sandford/
2021-01-27T16:17:05 < BrainDamage> if you really want to rile people up, use self signed certs
2021-01-27T16:17:10 < Laurenceb> its female
2021-01-27T16:17:15 < Laurenceb> sort of would...
2021-01-27T16:17:27 < mawk> lol
2021-01-27T16:17:30 < karlp> mawk: no, already A, just can't get A+ without tls1.3
2021-01-27T16:17:35 < karlp> A is more than good enough
2021-01-27T16:17:39 < mawk> meh
2021-01-27T16:17:42 < Laurenceb> >that mostache
2021-01-27T16:17:45 < mawk> it's like the EU energy certificate
2021-01-27T16:17:45 < karlp> zyp: is that all you need to make "c foo" work?
2021-01-27T16:18:05 < mawk> A+++ is best thing, but A++ is shitty; and they didn't just shfit everythign so that A+++ is A because in peoples' heads "A++ is good enough"
2021-01-27T16:18:07 < karlp> I don't get how you can iterate commands to scan them like that.
2021-01-27T16:18:43 < mawk> is that your new girlfriend Laurenceb ?
2021-01-27T16:19:08 < Laurenceb> in my dreams
2021-01-27T16:19:12 < Laurenceb> also ""girl""
2021-01-27T16:19:27 < mawk> gurl*
2021-01-27T16:19:34 < zyp> karlp, no, I haven't made the command parser yet
2021-01-27T16:19:41 < zyp> working on that now :)
2021-01-27T16:19:54 < zyp> the for loop just iterates the commands and runs them all
2021-01-27T16:20:14 < karlp> didn't see how that could possibly work :)
2021-01-27T16:20:25 < karlp> was having a bit of a hard time of c++ just being that much magic
2021-01-27T16:20:31 < zyp> the for(a : b) syntax is the for each stuff that C++11 introduced
2021-01-27T16:20:40 < karlp> "c" just runs for all though right now right?
2021-01-27T16:20:42 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T16:20:46 < karlp> ok, good.
2021-01-27T16:20:50 < karlp> not crazy in my head then
2021-01-27T16:21:18 < karlp> just finished siwtching servers. should be able to save about 250USD / month
2021-01-27T16:22:26 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/14cq4j <- I just wrote a function to split arguments
2021-01-27T16:24:13 < zyp> I believe string_view is a fairly thin abstraction over a char* and length, so this should be fairly light too
2021-01-27T16:26:22 < mawk> it's immutable string
2021-01-27T16:26:24 < mawk> right?
2021-01-27T16:26:40 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T16:26:49 < mawk> like memoryview() in python
2021-01-27T16:26:54 < mawk> it offers a slice into a bytearray
2021-01-27T16:27:01 < zyp> yes
2021-01-27T16:33:07 < karlp> depends on having your rx buffer long enought ehn I guess?
2021-01-27T16:37:12 < zyp> I'm planning to have a fixed size command line buffer large enough to hold a whole command with arguments, yes
2021-01-27T16:37:34 < mawk> the user can always do \<nl> if it's too long
2021-01-27T16:37:41 < mawk> or maybe not
2021-01-27T16:49:46 < qyx> zyp: it is hardly doable with 0402 on the back
2021-01-27T17:03:39 < zyp> be more strategic with the vias
2021-01-27T17:10:20 < karlp> "git gud"
2021-01-27T17:12:49 < qyx> I am being
2021-01-27T17:21:20 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/n9UtE/Screenshot_2021-01-27_16-21-02.png
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2021-01-27T17:21:53 < karlp> and here's me considering just doing another test board and not even trying to fit things into the space...
2021-01-27T17:22:17 < karlp> also, considering abandoning pciex :|
2021-01-27T17:22:43 < qyx> is it for the gateway?
2021-01-27T17:22:55 < qyx> (heres the top layer https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5Odn8/Screenshot_2021-01-27_16-22-05.png)
2021-01-27T17:25:28 < karlp> yeah, trying to fit a cpu module, plus quacktel, plus wifi+bt module, into the space on the gateay is looking dumb for vertical.
2021-01-27T17:25:47 < karlp> thinking I'l have to do two parallel boards, and have FPC or something between them.
2021-01-27T17:26:00 < karlp> and robustly attaching upper pcb in place too
2021-01-27T17:26:00 < qyx> it is 2 module, isn't it?
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2021-01-27T17:26:24 < karlp> new one is 4, but includes all of to old 2 modules ones, and extra stuff
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2021-01-27T17:34:45 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qLyvd.png
2021-01-27T17:37:11 < qyx> I nearly forgot the default colours
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2021-01-27T17:50:59 < mawk> youtube is biased against the music I like
2021-01-27T17:51:05 < mawk> autoplay never keeps playing the good techno
2021-01-27T17:51:18 < mawk> always normie danceclub shit or minimal elevator-music techno
2021-01-27T17:51:27 < kakium69> ye
2021-01-27T17:51:37 < kakium69> but sometimes it does other way around
2021-01-27T17:52:21 < mawk> too hard music doesn't exist
2021-01-27T18:10:16 < qyx> hm ddr routing seems trivial so far
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2021-01-27T18:11:47 < qyx> at least the fanout part
2021-01-27T18:13:50 < fenugrec> I'm about to roll my own script to embed a ROM CRC into the .bin to be flashed, but is there already something for this in stm32cubeide ? didn't see anything obvious
2021-01-27T18:21:51 < zyp> karlp, making progress: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/XhtNX
2021-01-27T18:26:06 < zyp> substr workaround is a bit annoying, if the compiler were smarter it'd see the min() above and deduce that it'd never reach the throw anyway
2021-01-27T18:33:44 < aandrew> zyp: wow I can't even read that
2021-01-27T18:33:46 < aandrew> my C++ is weaksauce
2021-01-27T18:35:37 < qyx> they are not serious, it is 0.65 mm vertical pitch and 0.8 mm horizontal
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2021-01-27T19:01:58 < fenugrec> I wish stm community was as cool as Renesas, https://renesasrulz.com/
2021-01-27T19:02:01 < karlp> line 62 should never wait right? unless you're output queue is already fool?
2021-01-27T19:02:15 < karlp> like, I wouldn't ever want that to actuallygo and _wait_ surely
2021-01-27T19:04:32 < zyp> it's a flow control thing
2021-01-27T19:06:10 < zyp> but given that the current implementation on line 6 never does co_await itself, it'll never suspend the task
2021-01-27T19:06:41 < zyp> I just haven't bothered implementing interrupt-based uart tx yet :)
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2021-01-27T19:10:26 < zyp> but I mean, part of the point is that if you're printing over a slow uart, is that you can co_await the write so the cpu can go and execute other tasks meanwhile
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2021-01-27T19:17:19 < zyp> if I used an async_queue similar to the input queue and printed a line longer than what would fit in the queue, what would happen is that the task would first push stuff into the queue repeatedly until it was full, and then it would suspend the entire task pending more room in the queue
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2021-01-27T19:18:47 < zyp> when ISR or something starts grabbing stuff from the queue, the task would be scheduled for resumption, but if there are other active tasks this will pend until they have suspended
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2021-01-27T19:21:00 < zyp> and by then there might be room for more than one byte in the queue, so it won't necessarily switch tasks for every single byte
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2021-01-27T19:33:31 < zyp> that was easy: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/K1vab
2021-01-27T19:35:47 < zyp> putchar could be optimized a little bit more by stuffing c right in DR if TXE, but meh :)
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2021-01-27T20:23:55 < qyx> CK_c, CK_t wut, which one is N and P
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2021-01-27T20:30:43 < mouseghost> qyx, huh?
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2021-01-27T20:40:25 < zyp> qyx, true (_t) is positive, complementary (_n) is negative
2021-01-27T20:42:04 < qyx> finally found some refsch, but was curious what the _t and _c actually means
2021-01-27T20:45:32 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Bandwidth_Memory   says "true" and "complementary"
2021-01-27T20:46:59 < antto> "complementary news"
2021-01-27T20:48:41 < jpa-> please, take this complimentary antto as a token of our graditude to your chats
2021-01-27T20:49:42 < antto> hm
2021-01-27T20:51:13 < antto> jpa-, ur too high level for me
2021-01-27T20:51:25 < antto> moi no comprende
2021-01-27T20:51:36 < jpa-> and if you accept the gift, take it far..
2021-01-27T20:53:13 < antto> is that a cue for "gtfo" ?
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2021-01-27T21:10:11 < karlp> hrm, import dxf into board outline, cant' modify it.
2021-01-27T21:10:21 < karlp> I need to explode the dxf first or something
2021-01-27T21:10:23 < karlp> helpful
2021-01-27T21:18:10 < jpa-> i usually resort to importing dxf to drawings and redrawing the outline with arcs & segments.. but probably there is a better way
2021-01-27T21:22:24 < karlp> yeah, I've not done a lot of this,
2021-01-27T21:22:54 < karlp> I also need to getmore familiar with how to get more dimensions out of freecad step files, 
2021-01-27T21:23:20 < karlp> more fun times :)
2021-01-27T21:24:40 < fenugrec> karlp, dxf in kicad ? 
2021-01-27T21:32:34 < antto> karlp, importing dxf into kicad?
2021-01-27T21:33:09 < karlp> as board outlines
2021-01-27T21:33:09 < fenugrec> your workflow shouldn't include "editing dxf features in pcbnew" heh
2021-01-27T21:33:40 < karlp> well, I have to take a flat outer edge, and modify it to place the pciexpress edge on it...
2021-01-27T21:33:43 < karlp> so.. yeah, I do.
2021-01-27T21:33:51 < jpa-> fenugrec: why not?
2021-01-27T21:34:16 < karlp> unless you think I should export the pciexpress footprint to qcad, merge the board outline, then re-import it to kicad
2021-01-27T21:34:24 < karlp> that seems pointlessly complicaterd
2021-01-27T21:34:43 < fenugrec> jpa-, pcbnew is not well adapted to edit dxf features, except minor tweaks, last I tried
2021-01-27T21:34:58 < jpa-> for what it is worth, for me editing dxf in kicad has worked ok'ish; but i'm usually exporting from inkscape in the R12 format, and it makes arcs into line segments which is another kind of annoying
2021-01-27T21:35:15 < antto> kicad doesn't edit DXF at all
2021-01-27T21:35:22 < antto> at least not the stable version
2021-01-27T21:35:26 < antto> only import
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2021-01-27T21:35:31 < jpa-> fenugrec: how is it different from editing other outline drawings? it just imports as segments / arcs?
2021-01-27T21:35:32 < karlp> stable version is dead old and useless
2021-01-27T21:35:37 < antto> now now
2021-01-27T21:36:59 < Steffanx> hes not lying.
2021-01-27T21:37:54 < fenugrec> jpa-, depends how the dxf was generated I suppose. I wanted to tweak some segments of the outline in the lower left, https://ibb.co/dKwnPxw , and due to the angles and arcs it took some fiddling to get right
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2021-01-27T21:38:31 < fenugrec> each segment is independent, can't drag stuff while keeping endpoints connected, etc... it's just not a proper 2D CAD
2021-01-27T21:39:35 < jpa-> matches my experience, but that is just because the arcs are not imported as arcs - other than that, isn't that just how outline editing in pcbnew works anyway? it is clumsy sometimes, but nothing specific to DXF
2021-01-27T21:40:41 < fenugrec> fair enough, I should rephrase - editing outlines and geometric features in pcbnew is ... not great
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2021-01-27T21:41:02 < jpa-> that i can agree with :)
2021-01-27T21:42:30 < fenugrec> at least it has Move Exactly / Relative ; and I was surprised to see that snapping to the center of an arc (or circle only ? ) also worked
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2021-01-27T22:38:24 < kakium69> I seem to have a lot of meme in my old computer
2021-01-27T22:38:51 < kakium69> I mean like folder electronics is half datasheet hording and half memes
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2021-01-27T22:42:14 < kakium69> I kinda expect multiple days to be spent on this migration to new machine
2021-01-27T22:42:31 < Steffanx> no, keep it there and forget about it
2021-01-27T22:42:40 < kakium69> yes
2021-01-27T22:42:42 < Steffanx> you wont miss it if you didnt even know you had it
2021-01-27T22:42:48 < kakium69> there is a problem
2021-01-27T22:43:09 < kakium69> inside the system there is another system in disk image
2021-01-27T22:43:25 < kakium69> and it has forgotten files from system before system before system
2021-01-27T22:43:29 < Steffanx> copy everything to NAS, forget about it
2021-01-27T22:45:03 < kakium69> but basically appart from few useful files work and eduncation related
2021-01-27T22:45:08 < kakium69> everything is just stuffing
2021-01-27T22:45:38 < fenugrec> rm -rf and dont look back
2021-01-27T22:48:08 < kakium69> also few software files that require some jumping through hoops
2021-01-27T22:48:19 < kakium69> I rather copy them to new system
2021-01-27T22:49:30 < englishman> fenugrec: new guy didn't know that when you take a long acquisition on an oscope, you lose temporal resolution
2021-01-27T22:49:38 < Steffanx> sounds like a waste of time kakium69 
2021-01-27T22:51:38 < fenugrec> englishman, didn't configure the scope properly or just turned the us/div knob then tried to zoom in post-acq : )
2021-01-27T22:51:47 < englishman> well...both
2021-01-27T22:52:00 < fenugrec> heh. but scopes are magic
2021-01-27T22:52:09 < englishman> also with alligator clip to banana cables going to a bnc-banana
2021-01-27T22:53:17 < fenugrec> hmm. Probably ok for <1MHz I guess
2021-01-27T22:57:40 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-27T22:57:56 < zyp> fmtlib doesn't seem to be very suited for embedded use
2021-01-27T22:59:00 < zyp> using fmt::format() increases code size with 53k compared to using snprintf()
2021-01-27T22:59:44 < zyp> the entire .text section is 16k when using snprintf
2021-01-27T23:02:15 < zyp> worth mentioning that I still have other code calling printf() though, so the infrastructure for snprintf() is getting pulled in when I use fmt::format() as well
2021-01-27T23:02:39 < zyp> and it's linking with nano.specs
2021-01-27T23:15:09 < zyp> ah, looks like fmt is pulling in formatters and lookup tables and stuff for everything including floats and doubles
2021-01-27T23:16:05 < zyp> which again pulls in a bunch of softfloat code
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2021-01-27T23:34:12 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/F1cKB/Screenshot_2021-01-27_22-24-57.png
2021-01-27T23:34:15 < qyx> not that bad finally
2021-01-27T23:34:19 < qyx> I need to tidy it up a bit
2021-01-27T23:34:26 < qyx> and finish power balls
2021-01-27T23:34:53 < qyx> oh and equalize things
2021-01-27T23:41:28 < qyx> hm, CA are within ~7 mm, not that bad
2021-01-27T23:41:33 < qyx> DQ within 5 mm
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--- Day changed Thu Jan 28 2021
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2021-01-28T00:19:10 < zyp> okay, I figured out where the formatters are getting pulled in, now I'm down from 53k overhead to 11k overhead
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2021-01-28T01:13:04 < kakium69> hello steff
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2021-01-28T01:26:50 < Steffanx> Hi kakium69 
2021-01-28T01:28:05 < kakium69> is there like better file explorer than built in windows explorer
2021-01-28T01:30:11 < mawk> probably
2021-01-28T01:30:13 < mawk> but I forgot the name
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2021-01-28T01:31:30 < Steffanx> Totalcommander lol
2021-01-28T01:31:56 < fenugrec> norton commander 5.5
2021-01-28T01:32:49 < karlp> actualy, windows explorer was one of the things I missed most when I first switched to linux on the desktop
2021-01-28T01:33:09 < fenugrec> +1
2021-01-28T01:33:44 < karlp> really well designed, clear integration paths, even if you have to do reg hack shits, it jsut _worked_
2021-01-28T01:34:06 < karlp> nautilus at least is, well, it's fine, and I'm ok with it now, but...
2021-01-28T01:35:00 < Steffanx> Maybe Explorer++ gives some extras. Like tabs
2021-01-28T01:36:08 < Steffanx> I dont understand why MS never really went through with that... there were previews with a tabbed edition 
2021-01-28T01:37:25 < mawk> midnight commander
2021-01-28T01:40:15 < kakium69> linux just never gets even a file explorer right
2021-01-28T01:41:06 < kakium69> should check current KDE
2021-01-28T01:42:16 < karlp> man, I've got his "compact" keyboard now https://en.tracer.eu/mouse-&-keyboard-set-tracer-islander-rf
2021-01-28T01:42:30 < mawk> nonsense karlp 
2021-01-28T01:42:33 < karlp> and I'm really having a bit of a hard time adjusting to the different positions of del/pgup/pgdown and the aroows
2021-01-28T01:42:34 < mawk> kde has dolphin explorer
2021-01-28T01:42:36 < mawk> it's very usable
2021-01-28T01:42:40 < karlp> yes, but it's kde...
2021-01-28T01:42:49 < mawk> which means it's beautiful
2021-01-28T01:42:53 < karlp> loving the nice quiet keys though, less typing errors too
2021-01-28T01:42:59 < karlp> fuck this mechanical keyboard bullshit
2021-01-28T01:43:02 < karlp> tried that, never again
2021-01-28T01:43:28 < qyx> xfce4 has thunar
2021-01-28T01:43:33 < qyx> but it's xfce..
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2021-01-28T01:44:29 < kakium69> thunar makes you miss windows explorer
2021-01-28T01:45:27 < kakium69> I have bought only two mechanical keyboard
2021-01-28T01:45:41 < kakium69> filco majestouch 2 and separate numpad
2021-01-28T01:46:06 < kakium69> it was something like 2012 or so before mech was a thing
2021-01-28T01:47:46 < kakium69> I think the whole thing cost me like 250eur with separate numpad and some special color keys + blank windows keys
2021-01-28T01:48:43 < kakium69> I should glue that palmrest it came with
2021-01-28T01:48:54 < kakium69> glue dried
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2021-01-28T02:00:42 < qyx> why, what do you need
2021-01-28T02:00:54 < qyx> up down enter, back, forward
2021-01-28T02:01:00 < qyx> select as you type
2021-01-28T02:01:05 < qyx> make archive, extract here
2021-01-28T02:01:11 < qyx> gvfs works
2021-01-28T02:01:16 < qyx> is there anything more you need?
2021-01-28T02:01:20 < qyx> ctrl+c and friends work
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2021-01-28T02:06:30 < kakium69> sidebar with common locations, drives and favourites
2021-01-28T02:06:37 < kakium69> search function
2021-01-28T02:08:07 < kakium69> integration of external tools
2021-01-28T02:11:24 < qyx> external tools are in the context menu, sidebar is there too
2021-01-28T02:11:37 < qyx> search idk, never used search outside of console
2021-01-28T02:12:14 < qyx> I mean, theres probably not much to invent
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2021-01-28T03:03:02 < brdb> has anyone successfully used lvgl with libopencm3? in any event, i cant find where I tell lvgl where LTDC start address is looking at to actually draw the buffer
2021-01-28T03:03:55 < brdb> it seems like it might be expecting you to use HAL / CMSIS in lvgl
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2021-01-28T03:44:27 < qyx> a bit retarded https://bin.jvnv.net/file/84jhu/Screenshot_2021-01-28_02-43-32.png
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2021-01-28T04:09:56 < mawk> pretty
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2021-01-28T08:01:27 < upgrdman> SMPS pros: i'm trying to understand compensation networks. before adding a comp net, if you have a buck regulator, F-LC is 1/2*pi*sqrt(L*C) ... and i assume you want this frequency to be a low as possible? e.g. L and C and high as possible
2021-01-28T08:02:20 < upgrdman> my spice sim seems to agree with that understanding
2021-01-28T08:02:55 < upgrdman> of course, with really big L and C you have little high-freq noise, but the DC value is wobbling like a drunk fuck
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2021-01-28T09:31:06 < jpa-> why does upgrdman always leave before i can answer
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2021-01-28T10:19:30 < mawk> LOL
2021-01-28T10:19:32 < mawk> LOL*
2021-01-28T10:19:34 < mawk> lol*
2021-01-28T10:19:42 < mawk> I should remove the capslock key
2021-01-28T10:19:45 < mawk> that's never useful
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2021-01-28T10:51:50  * PaulFertser uses capslock key to switch keyboard layouts.
2021-01-28T10:54:12 < mawk> ah good idea
2021-01-28T10:54:28 < mawk> I use ctrl-alt-K to switch betweek ελλενικα and qwerty
2021-01-28T10:54:52 < Steffanx> Betweek... better switch to azerty
2021-01-28T10:55:03 < mawk> yeah I meant azerty
2021-01-28T10:55:07 < mawk> fuck qwerty I never use that
2021-01-28T10:55:23 < mawk> I love that { is alt-gr 4 and } is alt-gr +
2021-01-28T10:55:27 < zyp> I use cmd-space to switch between norwegian and ひらがな
2021-01-28T10:55:46 < zyp> both are qwerty though
2021-01-28T10:55:56 < Steffanx> Lol must have been  a challenge to write qwerty on your azerty kb
2021-01-28T10:56:09 < mawk> yes
2021-01-28T10:56:13 < mawk> qwouerti
2021-01-28T10:56:18 < PaulFertser> mawk: the thing is that I have to use russian layout a lot, and often switch in-between the sentences, so single capslock feels natural for that.
2021-01-28T10:56:34 < mawk> yes for greek as well
2021-01-28T10:56:43 < mawk> to write Σ and π and Ω and so on
2021-01-28T10:57:00 < mawk> I will do the same as you
2021-01-28T10:57:32 < PaulFertser> Hm, is compose key not enough for the purpose?
2021-01-28T10:57:42 < mawk> how do I do it?
2021-01-28T10:59:28 < PaulFertser> mawk: usually press/release compose and then E to type Σ.
2021-01-28T10:59:50 < PaulFertser> "On Xorg the default Compose Key is ⇧ Shift+AltGr"
2021-01-28T11:00:22 < PaulFertser> But of course you can assign it to the right "windows" key or whatever.
2021-01-28T11:00:43 < mawk> compose E does nothing here
2021-01-28T11:00:44 < zyp> ∑ is alt-shift-s here
2021-01-28T11:00:50 < mawk> compose e e does ə
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2021-01-28T11:04:48 < jadew> why can you guys make letters with alt-something-letter?
2021-01-28T11:05:45 < jadew> nothing comes out for me
2021-01-28T11:05:50 < zyp> well, this is macos, macos doesn't distinguish between alt and altgr
2021-01-28T11:06:03 < zyp> on linux/windows I'd generally have to use altgr
2021-01-28T11:06:26 < jadew> I don't have altgr on my kb, but IIRC it's right alt + ctrl, no?
2021-01-28T11:06:48 < zyp> idk
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2021-01-28T11:07:13 < jadew> well, I tried all the combinations, I don't get new letters
2021-01-28T11:07:14 < zyp> on my non-mac keyboards, altgr is simply the right alt key
2021-01-28T11:22:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: usually altgr is just right alt
2021-01-28T11:23:17 < jadew> PaulFertser, again, I don't know if I remember it correctly, but I think it is right alt + ctrl or something else
2021-01-28T11:23:25 < jadew> and they combined it into a single key
2021-01-28T11:23:35 < jadew> my keyboard only has alt
2021-01-28T11:24:37 < PaulFertser> My keyboard on ac100 has a key with literally ALT GR label.
2021-01-28T11:24:49 < jadew> I know, I had several of those too
2021-01-28T11:25:08 < jadew> we could put this to the test I guess
2021-01-28T11:25:34 < Steffanx> no alt-gr here either.
2021-01-28T11:27:19 < jadew> right alt and right ctrl map to the same virtual key, but they get a flag set
2021-01-28T11:28:24 < jadew> not alt and ctrl
2021-01-28T11:28:36 < jadew> alt to alt, ctrl to ctrl, but with the flag
2021-01-28T11:31:11 < jadew> well apparently it should give you access to a multitude of new characters
2021-01-28T11:31:14 < jadew> doesn't do that for me
2021-01-28T11:31:20 < jadew> https://www.wikiwand.com/en/AltGr_key
2021-01-28T11:31:36 < jadew> does any of that work for those of you with altgr keys?
2021-01-28T11:33:51 < zyp> yeah, windows/linux keyboards with norwegian layout has these: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/AltGr_key#/Nordic_countries_and_Estonia
2021-01-28T11:34:31 < jadew> hmm, I recall that any ALT key works when doing those
2021-01-28T11:34:36 < jadew> let me install a language pack
2021-01-28T11:34:46 < zyp> I don't think left alt does
2021-01-28T11:37:22 < jadew> I need to figure out how to do it lol
2021-01-28T11:37:35 < jadew> control panel has changed a little
2021-01-28T11:41:59 < jadew> with the language pack, I just get the weird characters on different keys
2021-01-28T11:42:10 < jadew> basically replacing []';
2021-01-28T11:42:39 < jadew> would be cool if they didn't and instead altgr would make them show up as indicated on that page
2021-01-28T11:44:12 < jadew> ah ha!
2021-01-28T11:44:20 < jadew> there is a certain layout that allows that
2021-01-28T11:44:27 < jadew> it's called Romanian (Programmers)
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2021-01-28T11:44:40 < jadew> and you get the same keys, except now you get the behaviour from that page
2021-01-28T11:44:51 < jadew> and yes, only right alt does that
2021-01-28T11:45:08 < jadew> so altgr is something the system does
2021-01-28T11:45:22 < jadew> damn... this is great
2021-01-28T11:45:32 < jadew> I can actually use diacritics like this
2021-01-28T11:45:52 < jadew> să scriu așa
2021-01-28T11:46:18 < jadew> this is great, because until now I thought you have to replace those keys and deal with it
2021-01-28T11:49:09 < jadew> România
2021-01-28T11:49:19 < jadew> oh, and all the other shit is available too
2021-01-28T11:49:23 < jadew> ©
2021-01-28T11:50:01 < jadew> ah, not all of it, but some ~~ˇ^˘°˛`˙´˝ß€ț”ășđł©«»
2021-01-28T11:50:45 < jadew> hmm, I don't think there's any reason not to use this one as the default
2021-01-28T11:58:25 < jadew> ∑χζəl̄ēnτ
2021-01-28T11:59:25 < Steffanx> Ill be ready for your raging when something suddenly doesnt work so great anymore
2021-01-28T12:00:07 < mouseghost> now im not sure if i should do async. homegrown a'la-rtos "stack" which clones my programs or leave it blocking hmm
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2021-01-28T12:31:22 < BrainDamage> jadew: alt gr is 'alternate graphics', an ctrl + left alt does the same effect here, moreover, shift + altgr or shift + ctrl + left alt gives you yet another set of glyphs
2021-01-28T12:31:48 < mouseghost> BrainDamage, TIL ctrl + alt = altgr..
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2021-01-28T12:32:37 < jadew> I'm not getting different glyphs with shift, not with the romanian input thingie
2021-01-28T12:32:45 < jadew> only upper case diacritics
2021-01-28T12:33:24 < jadew> also, left alt + ctrl doesn't seem to have the same effect as right alt
2021-01-28T12:33:26 < Streaker> the font in whatever you're typing in to should have those characters.
2021-01-28T12:33:44 < jadew> Streaker, yeah, it's not that, it just doesn't output anything
2021-01-28T12:33:52 < BrainDamage> i'd check if you get composé key support in windows, it has pretty nice mnemonics
2021-01-28T12:33:55 < jadew> if the font would be missing them, it would show a square
2021-01-28T12:34:13 < BrainDamage> eg composé c = yields €
2021-01-28T12:34:22 < Streaker> in my experience that doesn't happen. though I don't understand why.
2021-01-28T12:34:33 < BrainDamage> or composé e ' yields é
2021-01-28T12:34:35 < jadew> I just use altgr + e for € with the current settings
2021-01-28T12:34:44 < jadew> altgr + c = ©
2021-01-28T12:34:53 < jadew> I think it's pretty good
2021-01-28T12:35:01 < jadew> I think it's pretty good © jadew
2021-01-28T12:35:17 < BrainDamage> ok™
2021-01-28T12:35:33 < mouseghost> ć
2021-01-28T12:35:43 < mouseghost> ę
2021-01-28T12:35:46 < mouseghost> :<
2021-01-28T12:35:58 < jadew> ȩç
2021-01-28T12:36:15 < jadew> ē
2021-01-28T12:37:02 < jadew> the latex plugin is pretty cool too, it can modify the previous letter
2021-01-28T12:37:19 < jadew> I can do șs̄ș̄
2021-01-28T12:37:42 < jadew> çc̄ç̄
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2021-01-28T12:50:24 < mawk> 10:58 <jadew> ∑χζəl̄ēnτ
2021-01-28T12:50:33 < mawk> skzelent?
2021-01-28T12:50:48 < mawk> using greek letters as lookalike latin letters is an offence punishable by death
2021-01-28T12:50:51 < mawk> Δ is not a A
2021-01-28T12:50:56 < mawk> Λ is not a A
2021-01-28T12:51:03 < mawk> Σ is not a E, and so on
2021-01-28T12:51:34 < zyp> haha
2021-01-28T12:57:05 < jadew> ωh̄αενεŗ
2021-01-28T12:57:15 < jadew> ah, I missed a τ
2021-01-28T12:57:19 < Steffanx> βμτ γομ ζαη rεαδ ιτ...
2021-01-28T12:57:23 < mawk> I'm taking out the guillotinne
2021-01-28T12:57:28 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2021-01-28T12:57:35 < mawk> I know ζ is Z, for instance
2021-01-28T12:57:48 < Steffanx> How can you answer me without being able to read it ;)
2021-01-28T12:57:52 < jadew> haha
2021-01-28T12:57:53 < Steffanx> Youre out.
2021-01-28T12:58:00 < mawk> I had to read it thrice
2021-01-28T12:58:06 < mawk> using Steffanx translator
2021-01-28T12:58:51 < mawk> anbmt yom zae read it
2021-01-28T12:58:57 < mawk> -an
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2021-01-28T13:01:54 < Steffanx> poor måwk
2021-01-28T13:02:07 < mawk> yes poor me
2021-01-28T13:04:39 < qyx> re altgr, altgr+c is &
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2021-01-28T13:05:04 < mawk> no it's ©
2021-01-28T13:05:07 < mawk> makes much more sense
2021-01-28T13:05:22 < mawk> when I press 1 without using shift, it makes &
2021-01-28T13:05:35 < mawk> ©®™
2021-01-28T13:06:35 < qyx> 12345... is +ľščť :>
2021-01-28T13:07:00 < Steffanx> No, cltr+alt+12345 = ¡²³¤€
2021-01-28T13:07:44 < Steffanx> and no altgr
2021-01-28T13:08:02 < Steffanx> The important things i live are being discussed today :P
2021-01-28T13:08:09 < Steffanx> *in
2021-01-28T13:16:09 < mawk> my favorite key is the little ² up left of the keyboard
2021-01-28T13:16:15 < mawk> it says ² but actually it makes œ when I hit it
2021-01-28T13:18:21 < zyp> œŒ
2021-01-28T13:28:48 < mawk> sœur cœur bœuf œuf
2021-01-28T13:28:54 < mawk> ad vitam æternam
2021-01-28T13:29:01 < mawk> pædophile
2021-01-28T13:29:15 < mawk> æsthetics
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2021-01-28T13:42:34 < karlp> æ luv mæ æ key
2021-01-28T13:55:43 < zyp> œ != æ
2021-01-28T13:59:01 < mawk> I know
2021-01-28T13:59:05 < mawk> but pædophile takes a ae
2021-01-28T13:59:11 < mawk> and sœur takes a oe
2021-01-28T14:11:04 < karlp> oh, doh, wsn't looking closely
2021-01-28T14:11:43 < zyp> I've got a dedicated æ-key, but œ is alt-o
2021-01-28T14:16:18 < mouseghost> idk why but it kinda looks like a swastika to me 
2021-01-28T14:17:01 < mawk> æ HEIL CRACKI æ
2021-01-28T14:17:03 < mawk> like this?
2021-01-28T14:18:25 < mouseghost> theres actual unicode codepoint for swastika "卐" D:
2021-01-28T14:18:35 < mouseghost> mawk, what is that second word
2021-01-28T14:19:57 < mawk> it's the name of a ##stm32er
2021-01-28T14:20:21 < mawk> missed by all of us
2021-01-28T14:20:24 < mouseghost> ah :/
2021-01-28T14:20:28 < mawk> he's still alive though
2021-01-28T14:20:34 < mawk> come in ##stm32-offtopic to speak to him
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2021-01-28T14:43:05 < Steffanx> You don't have permission to access "http://nl.mouser.com/" on this server.
2021-01-28T14:43:06 < Steffanx> the joy
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2021-01-28T14:59:25 < mawk> they do the same for me Steffanx 
2021-01-28T14:59:27 < mawk> they don't like my vpn
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2021-01-28T15:02:50 < Steffanx> i think they are broken
2021-01-28T15:03:24 < qyx> works here
2021-01-28T15:03:30 < qyx> hm, .sk
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2021-01-28T15:43:19  * qyx installing cube
2021-01-28T15:53:38 < mouseghost> grr
2021-01-28T15:59:45 < qyx> for the first time
2021-01-28T15:59:53 < qyx> I refuse to assign peripherals on mp1 by hand
2021-01-28T16:01:23 < mawk> use zyp's magic sauce
2021-01-28T16:01:58 < qyx> is there any?
2021-01-28T16:03:42 < mawk> maybe
2021-01-28T16:03:47 < mawk> he did something in C++
2021-01-28T16:03:54 < mawk> to assing peripherals like a real man 
2021-01-28T16:04:07 < zyp> I think you two are talking about different things
2021-01-28T16:04:09 < mawk> with type checking and all
2021-01-28T16:04:11 < mawk> ah
2021-01-28T16:04:33 < zyp> I believe qyx is talking about figuring out which pins to use for what
2021-01-28T16:04:54 < qyx> yes the only reasonable part of cube
2021-01-28T16:05:07 < mawk> clock tree is also reasonable
2021-01-28T16:05:11  * qyx grumpy
2021-01-28T16:05:28 < mawk> it solves for you the "best" PLL settings for given outputs
2021-01-28T16:05:42 < zyp> why would mp1 be any harder than other parts though?
2021-01-28T16:06:27 < zyp> I'd expect mp1 to be more fixed wrt. which pins are available for what
2021-01-28T16:07:13 < mawk> nrf is cool in that regard
2021-01-28T16:07:17 < mawk> any pin can be used for anything
2021-01-28T16:07:22 < mawk> no alternate function business
2021-01-28T16:07:40 < jpa-> can it do usb on any pin?
2021-01-28T16:07:42 < qyx> zyp: te only reason is many pins
2021-01-28T16:07:49 < qyx> ddr is fixed though
2021-01-28T16:07:53 < mawk> not sure for that jpa- 
2021-01-28T16:08:04 < jpa-> i've also used cube for pin assignment, it's not terrible
2021-01-28T16:08:08 < mawk> vbus vbusense and so on are probably fixed pins
2021-01-28T16:08:09 < zyp> qyx, many pins doesn't matter when most are fixed like power and ddr
2021-01-28T16:08:12 < mawk> but maybe D+ and D- you can choose
2021-01-28T16:08:25 < karlp> no, those are normally pretty fixed too....
2021-01-28T16:08:50 < mawk> ah probably
2021-01-28T16:08:50 < qyx> ok, not installing cube then
2021-01-28T16:08:58  * qyx handcrafting pin assignments
2021-01-28T16:09:05 < mawk> you like suffering
2021-01-28T16:09:10 < zyp> haha
2021-01-28T16:09:12 < mawk> you can at least open cube for reference
2021-01-28T16:09:15 < mawk> click on a pin, you see the functions
2021-01-28T16:09:24 < mawk> or enable a peripheral, and see which pins lit up
2021-01-28T16:09:32 < mawk> that's useful
2021-01-28T16:10:58 < zyp> huh, no gigabit ethernet on the bga354
2021-01-28T16:11:45 < qyx> yeah but I am using gigabit
2021-01-28T16:12:01 < zyp> +not?
2021-01-28T16:12:38 < qyx> there are very interesting length matching conditions on the lpddr3
2021-01-28T16:12:57 < zyp> probably similar to normal ddr3?
2021-01-28T16:13:05 < qyx> within a byte lane, +- 1 mm
2021-01-28T16:13:11 < qyx> byte 0 is not pin swappable
2021-01-28T16:13:18 < qyx> other bytes are byte and pin swappable
2021-01-28T16:13:27 < mawk> if it's low power it maybe has higher restrictions right
2021-01-28T16:13:28 < qyx> data strobes within +- 1mm of the bits
2021-01-28T16:13:31 < qyx> but
2021-01-28T16:13:42 < qyx> CA must not be shorter than data lanes
2021-01-28T16:13:47 < qyx> and it may be at most 15mm longer
2021-01-28T16:13:59 < qyx> CLK may not be shorter than CA
2021-01-28T16:14:07 < qyx> but it may be up to 1mm longer
2021-01-28T16:14:34 < mawk> it's like the einstein problem, "the neighbor's house is red, but another neighbor likes fish, how old is the third neighbor?"
2021-01-28T16:14:37 < qyx> I finally managed to make DQ0-7 17 mm, DQ8-15 16 mm
2021-01-28T16:14:43 < karlp> yeah, lpddr3 seemed to have a lot more resitrictions compared to ddr3
2021-01-28T16:14:49 < qyx> CA is 30 mm
2021-01-28T16:14:52 < karlp> you had to really want the _potential_ for lower power 
2021-01-28T16:15:01 < qyx> and CLK is 30 mm + some fraction
2021-01-28T16:15:46 < qyx> then the CLK looks like 02:44 < qyx> a bit retarded https://bin.jvnv.net/file/84jhu/Screenshot_2021-01-28_02-43-32.png
2021-01-28T16:17:11 < zyp> normal ddr3 according to some shit I printed once says CK needs to be longest, CA needs to be shorter than CK but not shorter than 200mil, byte lanes can be anywhere between 0 and CK but internally matched to 25mil each
2021-01-28T16:17:58 < qyx> actually looks very similar
2021-01-28T16:18:01 < zyp> also CA internally 25mil
2021-01-28T16:18:02 < zyp> yeah
2021-01-28T16:19:19 < zyp> makes sense, byte lanes are individually tunable
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2021-01-28T16:29:37 < qyx> idk why lane 0 is fixed
2021-01-28T16:29:41 < qyx> probably some command wizardry
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2021-01-28T16:35:28 < qyx> now the fun part https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cC3qL.png
2021-01-28T16:36:25 < karlp> what's Vbst (boost?) for?
2021-01-28T16:36:32 < karlp> or, what's it even intended as being for?
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2021-01-28T16:46:25 < qyx> otg
2021-01-28T16:46:58 < qyx> interesting, theres is utg boost and some other boost
2021-01-28T16:47:01 < qyx> you are right, idk then
2021-01-28T16:47:11 < qyx> they are saying in the DS the boost converter is for otg
2021-01-28T16:49:09 < qyx> oh theres even a Vbst input
2021-01-28T16:57:34 < jpa-> Vbst is boosted +5.2V, there is internal switch between that and Vbus_otg
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2021-01-28T17:10:53 < Thorn> USB pros, do superspeed and classis transfers affect each other in terms of scheduling? or is scheduling completely separate
2021-01-28T17:11:57 < jpa-> AFAIK it is separate, but i'm not expert on that
2021-01-28T17:12:46 < Thorn> hard mode: hub in between
2021-01-28T17:13:07 < qyx> I only know there are translating hubs and not translating
2021-01-28T17:13:22 < qyx> (ie. usb2 and usb3 hub in one chip)
2021-01-28T17:14:42 < jpa-> i didn't know there are translating hubs, i've only seen the chips that internally have mostly separate USB2 and USB3 hubs
2021-01-28T17:15:47 < Thorn> >Note that USB 3.0 hubs do not currently[15][citation needed] perform transaction translation to super-speed for USB 2.0 devices.
2021-01-28T17:16:46 < qyx> somebody mentioned it here once
2021-01-28T17:16:55 < jpa-> though the pci-express bus between the host controller and cpu is of course shared; but i think usually one wouldn't be able to saturate that anyway
2021-01-28T17:18:28 < qyx> VL671
2021-01-28T17:19:13 < zyp> usb2 and usb3 are completely separate buses run in parallel
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2021-01-28T17:19:26 < zyp> there are a few devices that translate but they are super uncommon
2021-01-28T17:20:10 < zyp> the only think that ties the usb2 and usb3 bus together is power budgeting, apart from that the host doesn't need to care
2021-01-28T17:26:06 < karlp> qyx: that translating hub is super rare though, 
2021-01-28T17:26:44 < karlp> I mean, it's neat, but yeah, of your 3gig usb3 sss budget, you get 480 for _alllllllll_ downstream usb2 devices....
2021-01-28T17:29:52 < effractur> even de usb4 spec states to keep them seperate in the examples
2021-01-28T17:30:13 < effractur> and i guess you need to because backwars compatibilty bla
2021-01-28T17:30:17 < karlp> I suspect it might have been, "how about we not bother with this, and see if anyone actually complains much" in usb3,
2021-01-28T17:30:26 < karlp> and no-one really did
2021-01-28T17:30:36 < effractur> well like if you hookup a usb3 dock with those retimers
2021-01-28T17:30:40 < effractur> to a usb2 host
2021-01-28T17:30:42 < effractur> its useless
2021-01-28T17:30:54 < effractur> or you need to do some fancy detection 
2021-01-28T17:31:23 < karlp> what are you talking about now?
2021-01-28T17:32:02 < effractur> So if you take a usb3 hub
2021-01-28T17:32:19 < effractur> but wire the downstream usb2 devices only in a usb3->usb2 thingy
2021-01-28T17:32:29 < effractur> then if you hookup the usb3 hub to a usb2 only host
2021-01-28T17:32:35 < effractur> you cant use the hub
2021-01-28T17:33:26 < karlp> wat?
2021-01-28T17:33:38 < karlp> a usb3 hub still has usb2 pins on the upstream...
2021-01-28T17:33:40 < jpa-> yeah, but do such hubs actually exist?
2021-01-28T17:33:45 < karlp> I guess you could make one that doesn't 
2021-01-28T17:33:46 < karlp> but...
2021-01-28T17:34:16 < jpa-> i guess that is a good argument against the existence of translating hubs
2021-01-28T17:36:58 < karlp> nice, sudo kill -9 isn't killing...
2021-01-28T17:37:03 < karlp> I wonder what it's done...
2021-01-28T17:40:35 < aandrew> I love when that happens
2021-01-28T17:41:01 < kakium69> so I found like 20 repair manuals just scattered in my old drive
2021-01-28T17:41:08 < kakium69> some I forgot I even had
2021-01-28T17:41:53 < aandrew> heh I have a bunch of those as well, they usually have screwy names so I rename them so I don't forget them
2021-01-28T17:43:29 < kakium69> most of them I paid moneys for
2021-01-28T17:43:55 < kakium69> some virtual machines too that I didn't forgot as those are just massive
2021-01-28T17:44:07 < kakium69> biggest files in windirstat
2021-01-28T17:45:12 < zyp> as far as the usb spec is concerned, a usb3 translating hub is not a hub, it's an end device with a host controller
2021-01-28T17:45:26 < Thorn> kakium69 and what about 7.5 TB of porn?
2021-01-28T17:45:55 < aandrew> yeah one of my things is to slowly eliminate all non-MTT USB3 hubs I have
2021-01-28T17:46:49 < Steffanx> move that old machines to your NAS, NOW kakium69 
2021-01-28T17:46:52 < zyp> why does it matter whether a usb3 hub is MTT or STT?
2021-01-28T17:47:06 < jpa-> for USB2 traffic it matters
2021-01-28T17:47:11 < aandrew> for me, it's important because I want to be able to have multiple 480mbps capable streams
2021-01-28T17:47:18 < kakium69> Steffanx: I just FDE that disk and throw it in a box
2021-01-28T17:47:20 < karlp> isn't mtt stt only for FS/LS on HS?
2021-01-28T17:47:22 < aandrew> with STT all your 480mbps devices share the 480mbps uplink
2021-01-28T17:47:27 < zyp> karlp, exactly
2021-01-28T17:47:30 < jpa-> Thorn: storing porn is so outdated, time to start watching procedurally generated porn
2021-01-28T17:47:32 < karlp> that's ... not my understanding at all aandrew
2021-01-28T17:47:34 < zyp> aandrew, you're mistaken
2021-01-28T17:47:46 < aandrew> I'm happy to be corrected
2021-01-28T17:47:57 < zyp> aandrew, like we just discussed, the usb3 standard has no translation between usb2 and usb3 at all
2021-01-28T17:48:11 < karlp> mtt just means you can have NxFS devices so you can actually use N*12 and get close to your 480, 
2021-01-28T17:48:21 < jpa-> aandrew: with STT, all your 1 or 12Mbps devices take some of the 480Mbps bandwidth
2021-01-28T17:48:22 < karlp> with STT; you only get 1x12 into your 480.
2021-01-28T17:48:42 < jpa-> but 480Mbps devices *always* share the single USB2 link to PC
2021-01-28T17:48:44 < karlp> none of that has any bearing on multiple HS devices sharing usb3 bandwidth
2021-01-28T17:48:47 < karlp> ^^ 
2021-01-28T17:49:00 < karlp> usb3 hubs even talking about mtt/stt smells like funky marketing
2021-01-28T17:49:23 < zyp> well, usb3 hubs include usb2 hubs which are mtt or stt
2021-01-28T17:49:33 < karlp> sure, but it's not relevant to the usb3 part...
2021-01-28T17:49:47 < zyp> but I'm too cheap to buy usb3 hubs for usb2 devices, so yeah :)
2021-01-28T17:49:59 < aandrew> ah see, TIL
2021-01-28T17:49:59 < karlp> it's also why modern mobos can make usb utiliziation much worse, as they often have only one usb2 root hub and one usb3 root hub,
2021-01-28T17:50:10 < karlp> whereas old ones might have had multiple root hubs.
2021-01-28T17:50:23 < aandrew> STT/MTT is only on USB FS/HS, not FS/HS to SS
2021-01-28T17:50:34 < zyp> karlp, how modern/old are we talking?
2021-01-28T17:50:44 < kakium69> any tips how to FDE an external windows drive
2021-01-28T17:50:45 < zyp> aandrew, correct
2021-01-28T17:50:58 < kakium69> full drive or just the system partition
2021-01-28T17:51:20 < zyp> the only devices that translate between SS and HS are proprietary stuff, not standard classes
2021-01-28T17:51:23 < kakium69> I have veracrypt installed
2021-01-28T17:51:26 < karlp> quite recently I guess zyp?
2021-01-28T17:51:37 < karlp> I noticed it first on my new laptop.
2021-01-28T17:51:47 < karlp> I have things like a single 12 port usb2 root hub
2021-01-28T17:52:03 < karlp> instead of multiple root 4-6 port hubs on my old one.
2021-01-28T17:52:12 < karlp> because they're all on PCH or something, 
2021-01-28T17:52:14  * karlp shrugs
2021-01-28T17:52:56 < aandrew> zyp: do you have some magic terms/names I can google about the HS->SS combining stuff?
2021-01-28T17:53:47 < karlp> like, there's two usb-a ports on my laptop, and they're both on the same root usb2 hub
2021-01-28T17:54:31 < karlp> to get 2x480, I'd have to connect a usb3 hub in there, and then 1xusb-hs per hub...
2021-01-28T17:54:49 < kakium69> interesting thing about my new laptop. Usb3 sata adapter 2.5"box works only in one of the usb-c ports
2021-01-28T17:55:14 < kakium69> one that doesn't have thunderbolt symbol
2021-01-28T17:55:28 < zyp> aandrew, there's the VL671 qyx just mentioned
2021-01-28T17:56:07 < zyp> and then I remember it's been discussed here before but I don't remember if that was the same or a different part
2021-01-28T17:56:22 < zyp> IIRC dongs either got something or were talking about getting something
2021-01-28T17:58:19 < aandrew> ah I didn't scroll up enough
2021-01-28T17:58:45 < zyp> I wonder how much magic would be required to push usb3 via a pair of SFP+ transceivers
2021-01-28T17:58:56 < karlp> probably not a lot?
2021-01-28T17:59:02 < karlp> didn't we find some optical usb recently?
2021-01-28T17:59:09 < aandrew> ah yes I've run across this part before
2021-01-28T17:59:10 < zyp> I guess data should pass straight through, but I'm not sure how well the sideband signalling would work
2021-01-28T17:59:29 < karlp> https://www.go4fiber.com/usb-3-0-to-usb-3-0-active-optical-cable-length-10m?gclid=Cj0KCQiA3smABhCjARIsAKtrg6I1EAjzsOjozEVquNqAWrmI9KozoIEYu2xFNxvvHiTGmuCRUBDArm0aAqnbEALw_wcB
2021-01-28T17:59:58 < zyp> karlp, yeah, there's a ton of AOC solutions, but I don't want AOC
2021-01-28T18:00:01 < karlp> also, whee, I hadn't seen these before: https://intona.eu/en/products/buy/7055/7055-B
2021-01-28T18:00:06 < kakium69> anyone else have access to reddit? not that I use reddit but there is some veracrypt discusion there
2021-01-28T18:00:11 < karlp> what's AOC?
2021-01-28T18:00:20 < karlp> active optical, nvm
2021-01-28T18:00:28 < karlp> what do you really want to do?
2021-01-28T18:00:36 < aandrew> looks like you'd need a VL671 per USB 2.0 part, all feeding a USB 3.0 switch to upstream
2021-01-28T18:01:08 < karlp> well, like zyp said, the vl671 looks like a usb3 device, 
2021-01-28T18:01:16 < zyp> karlp, plug usb3 host into a fiber wall socket in one room and device in another room
2021-01-28T18:02:50 < zyp> even more interesting would be usb3 and displayport muxed over a fiber
2021-01-28T18:05:15 < zyp> considering I got a bunch of conduit ready for fiber outlets in multiple rooms, it'd be convenient to be able to e.g. have a device by the tv that gets video and usb from a computer sitting in the office or under the stairs or whatever
2021-01-28T18:05:24 < aandrew> "VL671 is a unique High-speed USB 2.0 to Super-speed USB 3.1 Gen1 transaction translator. VL671 effectively converts USB High-speed transactions to Super-speed transactions and vice-versa. With this capability, VL671 enables USB 2.0 devices to work under a USB 3.1 downstream port which only provides Super-speed interface (no USB 2.0 capability under this USB 3.1 downstream port for specific reasons)."
2021-01-28T18:05:38 < zyp> aandrew, correct
2021-01-28T18:05:40 < aandrew> if I'm reading that right if I plug a USB 2.0 device into it the host will see it as a USB 3.0 device
2021-01-28T18:05:46 < zyp> wrong
2021-01-28T18:05:51 < aandrew> heh
2021-01-28T18:06:00 < jpa-> why wrong?
2021-01-28T18:06:08 < zyp> the host will see a usb2 root controller as a usb3 device
2021-01-28T18:06:12 < qyx> why wrong?
2021-01-28T18:06:14 < jpa-> ah
2021-01-28T18:06:23 < aandrew> zyp: ok
2021-01-28T18:06:28 < aandrew> that's a fine point but important
2021-01-28T18:06:36 < qyx> oh yes
2021-01-28T18:06:43 < zyp> the devices downstream of the VL671 is effectively on a separate bus on the host
2021-01-28T18:06:50 < jpa-> aandrew: note that that is exactly the only existing USB3-USB2 translator chip in existence, and also the exact same chip that started the discussion :)
2021-01-28T18:07:09 < karlp> and i've never seen it in any parts readily available
2021-01-28T18:07:19 < aandrew> the upshot seems to be, though, that if I plug 4x 480mbpx devices into 4x VL671 connected to a single 4-port USB3 hub, the host will be able to (theoretically) sustain 4x480mbps, right?
2021-01-28T18:07:24 < qyx> zyp: htmi/dp to ethernet adapters no good?
2021-01-28T18:07:30 < jpa-> right
2021-01-28T18:07:31 < qyx> or better to cat5, not ethernet
2021-01-28T18:07:32 < aandrew> jpa-: yes I understand that it's the chip that started the discussion
2021-01-28T18:07:41 < karlp> aandrew: yes, that's my understanding of how you could do it,
2021-01-28T18:07:51 < karlp> if that was what you needed, and you could justify that level of hardware :)
2021-01-28T18:07:59 < aandrew> This is just a thought exercise
2021-01-28T18:08:38 < zyp> aandrew, I figure you could also roll your own
2021-01-28T18:09:08 < zyp> you don't need a super expensive fpga to do usb3 upstream and multiple HS downstreams
2021-01-28T18:09:41 < zyp> so you could put some stuff together and write a custom HCI driver for it
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2021-01-28T18:10:02 < aandrew> yeah but then I'd have to fuck around with low level USB shit
2021-01-28T18:10:22 < zyp> well, it sounds like an interesting project, maybe I should try it :p
2021-01-28T18:11:02 < zyp> … already got capable hardware sitting on my desk
2021-01-28T18:11:11 < zyp> just a lack of time :)
2021-01-28T18:12:22 < zyp> but I mean, people are working on an opensource usb3 core, so it shouldn't be too hard to put something together eventually
2021-01-28T18:15:28 < jadew> aandrew, I recommend "Tales from the golden age" if you want to see a comedy about the communist era, it should be on netflix
2021-01-28T18:15:30 < jadew> two parts
2021-01-28T18:19:16 < karlp> it's mostly only video streamin security shit that wants lots of 480HS though right? what other users really need lots of usb2-hs on the same time on the same place?
2021-01-28T18:20:33 < aandrew> jadew: not available on netflix canada
2021-01-28T18:21:09 < jadew> ah, too bad, it's about some funny stories from back then
2021-01-28T18:21:30 < qyx> like painting roads white when there was no snow?
2021-01-28T18:21:38 < zyp> karlp, I was also wondering that
2021-01-28T18:22:09 < zyp> anything that contention on a HS bus is a problem for ought to be native usb3
2021-01-28T18:32:14 < benishor> is anybody else having problems with mouser search form?
2021-01-28T18:32:29 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-01-28T18:42:55 < kakium69> heavy?
2021-01-28T18:45:13 -!- tctw_ [~Tectu@82.197.160.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-01-28T18:51:16 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-01-28T18:52:25 < mawk> yes benishor 
2021-01-28T18:52:51 < benishor> it randomly breaks
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2021-01-28T18:53:40 < Steffanx> Mouser was broken here entirely earlier today
2021-01-28T18:54:24 -!- fluiDD is now known as fluiD
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2021-01-28T20:04:49 < jpa-> Steffanx: i made such a large order that they decided to close shop for the day and go celebrate
2021-01-28T20:06:16 < Steffanx> Yay. Finally going to deliver?
2021-01-28T20:07:56 < jpa-> probably just gonna build more protos and figure out some new tiny thing to adjust and waste time on
2021-01-28T20:08:23 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-01-28T20:08:27 < jpa-> then eventually run out of cash balance and have to take up more consulting again and lose interest in the particular project
2021-01-28T20:08:39 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has joined ##stm32
2021-01-28T20:08:42 < jpa-> that's my normal business plan at least
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2021-01-28T20:30:23 < mawk> are mini ink displays cool?
2021-01-28T20:30:31 < mawk> for low power application for instance
2021-01-28T20:30:37 < mawk> with low refresh rate
2021-01-28T20:32:09 < jpa-> sure, within their limits
2021-01-28T20:32:24 < qyx> what is a low refresh rate
2021-01-28T20:32:38 < mawk> every 5 minutes or so qyx 
2021-01-28T20:32:59 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-01-28T20:33:19 < mawk> millihertz
2021-01-28T20:33:44 < qyx> the colour ones refresh within 10-15 secs
2021-01-28T20:33:51 < qyx> BW usually <5 s
2021-01-28T20:33:53 < mawk> that's a lot of time
2021-01-28T20:34:00 < qyx> I was surprised too
2021-01-28T20:34:01 < mawk> my kindle refreshes faster
2021-01-28T20:34:16 < mawk> well now that I tore it apart to see what was inside the refresh rate is ∞
2021-01-28T20:43:38 < BrainDamage> my kobo does a full screen refresh within a s
2021-01-28T20:43:48 < BrainDamage> BW
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2021-01-28T20:49:47 < Steffanx> so those aliexpress dongles are actually dev board with a proper usb connector mawk .
2021-01-28T20:51:53 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-01-28T20:52:02 < mawk> the official one too
2021-01-28T20:52:08 < mawk> at least it's a bit wobbly but never disconnected for me
2021-01-28T20:52:12 < mawk> don't worry
2021-01-28T20:52:23 < mawk> and the official one has two nice convenient swd/swclk pins
2021-01-28T20:53:03 < Steffanx> PCB usb plugs suck. Always
2021-01-28T20:53:50 < Steffanx> i like the aliexpress one more. Will mainly use it for nrf connect anyway. :P
2021-01-28T20:54:05 < zyp> what are we talking about?
2021-01-28T20:54:42 < Steffanx> oh, some nrf52840 dongle.
2021-01-28T20:54:55 < Steffanx> not the official one, but some aliexpress edition
2021-01-28T20:54:59 < zyp> ah
2021-01-28T20:55:06 < zyp> FWIW I've got the official one
2021-01-28T20:55:28 < Steffanx> https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001671138556.html
2021-01-28T20:55:42 < Steffanx> i dont like those PCB style usb plugs the official one has
2021-01-28T21:00:04 < zyp> true
2021-01-28T21:02:01 < mawk> you have no real reason Steffanx 
2021-01-28T21:02:03 < mawk> it never failed on me
2021-01-28T21:02:05 < mawk> so it's good
2021-01-28T21:02:07 < mawk> QED
2021-01-28T21:02:13 < mawk> although in a USB 2 port it's all wobbly
2021-01-28T21:02:23 < mawk> in a USB 3 it's fine, but it's not leveled it's triggering my OCD
2021-01-28T21:02:28 < mawk> it's bending upwards
2021-01-28T21:03:26 < qyx> this damned pmic needs 23 capacitors
2021-01-28T21:03:55 < mawk> 23 that's a good number
2021-01-28T21:04:22 < mawk> https://youtu.be/1r9uQvn4m-A — Velcro - Acid & Rave [ Live 23 ]
2021-01-28T21:04:25 < mawk> it's the symbol of free parties
2021-01-28T21:04:25 < zyp> still better than 14 discrete regulators with a couple of caps each
2021-01-28T21:05:07 < qyx> I am starting to consider giving jlcpcb some money to populate those 0402
2021-01-28T21:05:35 < mawk> you don't have high success rate by hand?
2021-01-28T21:05:57 < mawk> what do you use to strip wires quickly
2021-01-28T21:06:04 < mawk> and what do you use to put dupont connectors
2021-01-28T21:06:15 < qyx> not using that
2021-01-28T21:06:28 < mawk> why not
2021-01-28T21:23:40 < Steffanx> it failed me.. i touch it, and it re-connects
2021-01-28T21:24:13 < Steffanx> and with nrf connect that SUCKS ARSE. because it reconfigures your server setup.
2021-01-28T21:24:27 < Steffanx> very nice when you didnt save it yet
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2021-01-28T21:28:10 < iobus> hello, did anyone know a library to use that cheap 433/315 MHz RF module with CubeIDE HAL? (FS100A & MX-RM-5V), I don't think I can use RadioHead as it made for Arduino core
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2021-01-28T21:36:06 < karlp> heh, AN5543 promises a new spi peripheral for "Most of STM32 devices
2021-01-28T21:36:08 < karlp> launched in 2021 or
2021-01-28T21:36:10 < karlp> later
2021-01-28T21:38:09 < Steffanx> I know you love this mawk: http://imgur.com/a/Zj5JcZ9
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2021-01-28T21:47:46 < karlp> "Hardware support of the NSS master output at standard SPI Motorola mode is not ideal on old SPI versions"
2021-01-28T21:47:48 < karlp> thanks ST :)
2021-01-28T21:48:25 < Steffanx> Did you read something about re-doing HAL as well?
2021-01-28T21:49:21 < qyx> how does murata's coil manage to withstand 4A in 2520 size
2021-01-28T21:50:13 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Murata-Electronics/DFE252012P-1R0M%3dP2/?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugOUhBfUkyiEWFTMVKjWqnJgsMg2lDqyJIA%2FtuPLucnv%2FSCK9vfZtCv
2021-01-28T21:51:36 < kakium69> practically 3A
2021-01-28T21:51:55 < kakium69> 1uH
2021-01-28T21:53:37 < kakium69> I found one that goes to 2.2uH
2021-01-28T21:53:42 < kakium69> same package
2021-01-28T21:53:44 < kakium69> interesting
2021-01-28T21:55:41 < kakium69> https://www.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-1-Original-1976-Computer-System-1st-Steve-Wozniak-designed-computer-with/174195921349
2021-01-28T21:56:26 < BrainDamage> 42mOhm, at rating it dissipates 0.78W, it probably glows white hot
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2021-01-28T22:05:59 < qyx> I need it at ~1A
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2021-01-28T22:41:18 < jadew> 0.8 W in that package is perfectly fine
2021-01-28T22:44:13 < jadew> it will probably get very hot tho, so you have to leak the temperature out somehow
2021-01-28T22:45:45 < jadew> I've run tests on smaller parts and it's surprising what they can withstand
2021-01-28T22:48:09 < mawk> Steffanx: link?
2021-01-28T22:50:31 < qyx> 0.8 W is 2x more than the whole device
2021-01-28T22:50:42 < qyx> *device's consumption
2021-01-28T22:54:23 < Steffanx> link what mawk ?
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2021-01-28T23:34:13 < qyx> very easy routing with 0.45 mm vias and 0.127 mm traces
2021-01-28T23:34:17 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/u3wsY/Screenshot_2021-01-28_22-33-37.png
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--- Day changed Fri Jan 29 2021
2021-01-29T00:48:45 < zyp> :)
2021-01-29T00:48:53 < zyp> that's STPMIC1?
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2021-01-29T00:50:02 < qyx> yeah
2021-01-29T00:51:33 < zyp> hmm
2021-01-29T00:53:21 < zyp> so I've got this hose with 3/4" BSP fittings with that conical sort of shit that's making a metal-metal seal
2021-01-29T00:53:42 < zyp> and I want to screw it into this shit: https://forbruksimport.no/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Klo-3g.jpg
2021-01-29T00:54:35 < zyp> how well is it gonna work if I just get a 60° taper bit? :p
2021-01-29T00:54:35 < qyx> now it is nearly the same size as the cpu itself https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5s3GO/Screenshot_2021-01-28_23-54-08.png
2021-01-29T00:55:08 < qyx> the page is 404
2021-01-29T00:55:23 < zyp> wat
2021-01-29T00:55:39 < zyp> this shit: https://forbruksimport.no/product/klokobling-3-4-utv-gjenger/
2021-01-29T00:56:58 < qyx> what about getting some flat-flanged hose fittings instead of those conical ones
2021-01-29T00:57:37 < zyp> I already have the hose
2021-01-29T00:57:49 < qyx> https://cdn.myshoptet.com/usr/www.instalatershop.sk/user/shop/big/30481_hadicnik-vnutorny-zavit.jpg?5f80aefe
2021-01-29T00:58:07 < qyx> you can use this with PA or PTFE
2021-01-29T00:58:11 < qyx> *sealing
2021-01-29T00:58:29 < zyp> I mean if I'm refitting the hose I could just get these: https://forbruksimport.no/product/klokobling-3-4-med-slangestuss/
2021-01-29T00:58:41 < qyx> true
2021-01-29T00:58:49 < zyp> I actually didn't consider that
2021-01-29T00:59:08 < qyx> sounds more reasonable than drilling make:r quality 60° conical "seal"
2021-01-29T00:59:24 < zyp> perhaps
2021-01-29T00:59:41 < zyp> but I ordered a tap bit already, so I'm gonna try that first :p
2021-01-29T00:59:50 < qyx> lol
2021-01-29T01:00:43 < kakium69> qyx: beautyful layouts
2021-01-29T01:01:30 < kakium69> those fills ah
2021-01-29T01:01:41 < zyp> it's not like I'm gonna use this for 150bar hydraulics or anything, worst case it'll leak some air
2021-01-29T01:03:39 < kakium69> every now and then somebody dies
2021-01-29T01:04:05 < kakium69> because of using low-pressure rated parts with hydraulics
2021-01-29T01:04:42 < zyp> I wonder what the hose is rated for
2021-01-29T01:04:57 < kakium69> show me
2021-01-29T01:05:05 < zyp> it came with the compressor but looks much more heavy duty than 8 bar
2021-01-29T01:05:18 < zyp> okay, hang on, gonna go snap some pics
2021-01-29T01:05:59 < kakium69> read the inkjet print from it if any
2021-01-29T01:13:32 < zyp> ha, I was right
2021-01-29T01:13:42 < zyp> fucker's rated for 86 bar working pressure
2021-01-29T01:14:36 < kakium69> wtf
2021-01-29T01:14:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vpmZ0.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/A3stR.jpg
2021-01-29T01:15:06 < kakium69> aha
2021-01-29T01:15:22 < kakium69> what system uses such low pressure?
2021-01-29T01:15:26 < zyp> so an order of magnitude overkill :)
2021-01-29T01:15:33 < zyp> idk, it came with the compressor
2021-01-29T01:16:16 < zyp> I guess for hydraulics it might be used for the low pressure side
2021-01-29T01:16:27 < kakium69> I guess steam
2021-01-29T01:16:43 < kakium69> for industrial shiets
2021-01-29T01:16:58 < kakium69> ah low pressure side ofc
2021-01-29T01:17:02 < zyp> the stuff I worked on has a high pressure side, a low pressure side and a drain
2021-01-29T01:17:13 < zyp> low pressure side shouldn't see more than a couple tens of bars
2021-01-29T01:18:26 < zyp> IIRC ideally 10-20 bars of backpressure, but our test setup weren't regulating well enough to keep it there, so it was more like 0-40
2021-01-29T01:18:54 < kakium69> some systems have pressurized reservour
2021-01-29T01:19:16 < kakium69> idk what it does.. stops foaming or cavitating or something
2021-01-29T01:19:42 < zyp> could be
2021-01-29T01:19:56 < kakium69> once I opened reservour of an excavator while it was running
2021-01-29T01:20:20 < kakium69> oilbath
2021-01-29T01:20:37 < kakium69> or as some say normal oil catastrophy
2021-01-29T01:20:40 < BrainDamage> be glad you're still alive
2021-01-29T01:20:42 < zyp> since we have digital control of the valves on our motors, we've got a HP manifold and a LP manifold in the motor itself, so the supply pressures don't switch with the direction
2021-01-29T01:21:09 < BrainDamage> if there was even a small metal sliver, it'd have pierced you like a projectile
2021-01-29T01:21:28 < kakium69> BrainDamage: well the pressure isn't much maybe couple of kilos?
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2021-01-29T01:21:36 < kakium69> in reservour
2021-01-29T01:21:58 < zyp> and when it's running in the pump quadrants, it's consuming LP and providing HP, so it needs a pretty decent LP supply
2021-01-29T01:21:59 < BrainDamage> ah
2021-01-29T01:24:34 < zyp> kinda a shame I'm switching jobs, probably no more hydraulics testing for me :(
2021-01-29T01:25:08 < kakium69> you wanted out of the grease pitt?
2021-01-29T01:26:29 < qyx> zyp: why are you switching?
2021-01-29T01:26:31 < zyp> nah, it was fun, but I've been furloughed since covid started and the company I've been contracting with for the past couple of months offered to hire me on permanently, with a 25% higher salary than what I got at the old job
2021-01-29T01:26:38 < qyx> no more industrial stuff?
2021-01-29T01:27:08 < zyp> and that's an offer that's too good to turn down
2021-01-29T01:27:42 < kakium69> can you tell about the work?
2021-01-29T01:28:21 < zyp> various embedded stuff, including the flir stuff I've been doing
2021-01-29T01:28:36 < kakium69> so miltech?
2021-01-29T01:28:40 < zyp> no
2021-01-29T01:30:21 < zyp> the company had offices straight across the hallway from the company I worked for ten years ago, and we had some collab projects at the time where they did hardware and we did software, so I've known them for a while
2021-01-29T01:31:54 < zyp> and when STE closed the office here they picked up some of the people, so most of my new coworkers have been my coworkers before
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2021-01-29T02:00:32 < karlp> classic nordic hiring then...
2021-01-29T02:05:32 < zyp> :)
2021-01-29T02:05:55 < zyp> I've never gotten a job that I've actually applied for
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2021-01-29T02:17:25 < englishman> same
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2021-01-29T02:20:28  * qyx installing cube
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2021-01-29T02:22:43 < qyx> are they serious, they are using *installer*?
2021-01-29T02:22:50 < qyx> on linux?
2021-01-29T02:23:21 < qyx> and it wants to install in my home
2021-01-29T02:23:36 < qyx> fucking windozers programming multi platform apps
2021-01-29T02:23:51 < qyx> lets fuk all platforms and bend them to look like windows
2021-01-29T02:24:54 < Steffanx> Installing again? Or was yesterdays comment mental preparation, qyx?
2021-01-29T02:25:40 < qyx> zyp made me reconsider that choice and try to use my intuition to make AF assignments
2021-01-29T02:25:51 < qyx> but he failed
2021-01-29T02:27:06 < qyx> lets guess where app links and icons are
2021-01-29T02:27:13 < qyx> apparently nowhere
2021-01-29T02:27:23 < qyx> am I supposed to doubleclick that thing
2021-01-29T02:27:27  * qyx rage mode
2021-01-29T02:29:15 < qyx> mcu selector in a window you are not able to maximize
2021-01-29T02:34:01 < zyp> I mean, I'd probably try cube myself to at least get a rough idea
2021-01-29T02:37:17 < qyx> hm, I cannot find a way to check alternatives
2021-01-29T02:37:35 < qyx> or are there none for sdmmcX?
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2021-01-29T03:49:08 < kakium69> musics
2021-01-29T03:50:41 < Steffanx> Sleep?
2021-01-29T03:51:55 < qyx> sleep
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2021-01-29T03:52:36 < kakium69> musics
2021-01-29T03:53:31 < kakium69> if I ever get very wealthy I hire a guy to listen to musics for me
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2021-01-29T03:59:35 < kakium69> keep chasing the first time
2021-01-29T03:59:47 < kakium69> like a drug
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2021-01-29T10:54:01 < zyp> if I ever get very wealthy I'll hire a guy to sleep for me
2021-01-29T10:54:09 < zyp> fucking waste of time
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2021-01-29T10:59:16 < Steffanx> no thanks. i love it.
2021-01-29T10:59:38 < zyp> great, then you can do it
2021-01-29T10:59:55 < Steffanx> Let's see how long you can do without :)
2021-01-29T11:00:19 < Steffanx> better ask mawk for some substances.
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2021-01-29T12:59:21 < karlp> fpc connectors are cheaper than I thought they were going to be.
2021-01-29T13:00:57 < qyx> another pcbs arrived today
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2021-01-29T13:28:21 < mawk> french army uses modafinil for that Steffanx 
2021-01-29T13:28:30 < mawk> it can keep you alert for 36-48h
2021-01-29T13:28:34 < mawk> then you need sleep
2021-01-29T13:41:15 < englishman> isis uses captagon, probably cheaper
2021-01-29T13:50:40 < qyx> this 1L eMMC routing is meh
2021-01-29T13:50:58 < qyx> why the hell did they put the balls in such a retarded shape
2021-01-29T13:51:14 < qyx> they need like 15 signals on a BGA153
2021-01-29T13:51:30 < qyx> could have used the outer ring only
2021-01-29T13:52:00 < zyp> I'm guessing the point is that by using center pads you can fit a smaller chip on the same footprint
2021-01-29T13:52:52 < qyx> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/tr7OIGje84YH3ZbDX3TwiKZc4VSUqWcwoZRqYcYsdUOqE4mE96Vwy4LMED1OTKD41PZmmN-Erh_ji7wxbJ_GmdOYpxdMq8-ZLsB_Cpn9W9Zr741I
2021-01-29T13:53:26 < qyx> all is good, power is good, even cmd/clk is ok
2021-01-29T13:53:40 < qyx> except dat3-dat7
2021-01-29T13:53:54 < zyp> 403
2021-01-29T13:54:33 < qyx> https://octavosystems.com/octavosystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/emmc_5.0_pinout.jpg
2021-01-29T13:54:46 < qyx> only yellow are needed
2021-01-29T13:55:34 < zyp> that doesn't look that bad
2021-01-29T13:55:59 < qyx> it does because 0.5 mm pitch
2021-01-29T13:56:11 < zyp> ah
2021-01-29T13:56:21 < qyx> hm, I could make the balls 0.2 mm and use 4/4
2021-01-29T13:56:58 < zyp> no, jlcpcb minimum pad is 0.25mm
2021-01-29T14:00:15 < qyx> maybe the least wrong way is to make a custom bga footprint with custom pad shapes going through the NC pads
2021-01-29T14:00:30 < qyx> this way it wouldn't trigger DRC at leas
2021-01-29T14:05:20 < qyx> like this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GSyH3/Screenshot_2021-01-29_13-04-59.png
2021-01-29T14:07:46 < zyp> heh
2021-01-29T14:11:19 < karlp> that looks like a gift that will return to give again later :)
2021-01-29T14:11:46 < zyp> have you considered just using the standard bga100 layout instead of the bga153?
2021-01-29T14:12:08 < qyx> I have seen only bga153 or bga169
2021-01-29T14:12:41 < zyp> see e.g. http://www.issi.com/WW/pdf/IS21-22ES04G.pdf
2021-01-29T14:12:50 < zyp> the bga100 is 1mm pitch, so it's a bit larger
2021-01-29T14:13:44 < qyx> hmm
2021-01-29T14:13:57  * qyx furiously searching mouser
2021-01-29T14:14:16 < zyp> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/memory/774?s=N4IgjCBcpgTAnBaIDGUBmBDANgZwKYA0IA9lANogBsAHAKxXwjEAsLAzPAOzsgC6xAA4AXKCADKwgE4BLAHYBzEAF9isAAwcooNJCx4ipCiHYd4LWPyGjIE6fKWqQAWkvJd0gK6GykSnSsQETEVZWUgA
2021-01-29T14:22:04 < zyp> apparently some people also just leave out the NC pads from the footprint
2021-01-29T14:43:30 < qyx> hm, even better
2021-01-29T14:43:44 < qyx> yeah, I'll keep corner pads and delete all NC
2021-01-29T14:43:50 < qyx> and RFU too
2021-01-29T14:44:52 < qyx> and VSF too
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2021-01-29T15:34:17 < qyx> ok I yolo'd the whole thing
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2021-01-29T17:48:08 < kakium69> can I expand encrypted android exfat partition?
2021-01-29T17:48:14 < kakium69> without data loss
2021-01-29T17:49:18 < kakium69> I have tried copy via usb to sd card and ftp server to computer to sd card
2021-01-29T17:49:54 < kakium69> I think I have resolved this type of file tranfer error before using adb.exe
2021-01-29T17:50:01 < kakium69> for copying the files
2021-01-29T17:52:22 < kakium69> I think I could de-encrypt the sd card and then dd to new card and then expand and then encrypt
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2021-01-29T17:57:08 < kakium69> anyone know the type of encryption used on exfat partition of sd card in android?
2021-01-29T17:57:58 < englishman> rot13
2021-01-29T18:02:15 < jpa-> https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/212641/decrypting-microsd-card-on-another-android-device-or-desktop-computer
2021-01-29T18:02:41 < Steffanx> heh, the ##stm32 google gang did its job again :P
2021-01-29T18:02:47 < Steffanx> thanks jpa- 
2021-01-29T18:04:16 < jpa-> i usually plan to give a snarky answer like "i've heard there is a webpage named after a large number that can be used to look up stuff like this".. but then i have to verify that it actually is trivially googleable in 5 seconds, and when i have the link why not just post it
2021-01-29T18:04:52 < kakium69> I checked mount from android terminal
2021-01-29T18:04:58 < kakium69> it says ecryptfs
2021-01-29T18:05:25 < jpa-> you'll want to check the options it gives to ecryptfs also, to be able to properly mount it on another system
2021-01-29T18:05:42 < kakium69> I don't want to mount it
2021-01-29T18:05:53 < kakium69> just copy to new sd and expand partition
2021-01-29T18:06:03 < jpa-> ah, just copy the files then
2021-01-29T18:06:20 < jpa-> no need to decrypt/encrypt
2021-01-29T18:06:25 < Steffanx> jpa-: i mean google even kinda answers my question. Something about hibernation and implementing patterns: https://imgur.com/a/FH6JMg5
2021-01-29T18:06:56 < kakium69> winter hibernation
2021-01-29T18:07:11 < kakium69> wakes up every now and then to irc
2021-01-29T18:09:39 < kakium69> jpa-: if I do it outside of the phone?
2021-01-29T18:09:42 < kakium69> to say in sd card reader connected to linux machine
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2021-01-29T18:10:49 < kakium69> but if I copy those non-sense contents to another sd card and plug that card in to phone suddenly I have my files in bigger card?
2021-01-29T18:11:48 < kakium69> i think I will check the exfat mounting point from the phone to see what's up
2021-01-29T18:14:50 < kakium69> permission denied
2021-01-29T18:16:24 < kakium69> yeah maybe I just try it later
2021-01-29T18:16:54 < kakium69> the process will probs take my phone out of use for hours
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2021-01-29T18:22:14 < kakium69> I watched youtubes video
2021-01-29T18:22:24 < kakium69> it's brilliant stacked thing
2021-01-29T18:22:59 < kakium69> just copy the non-sense files to new sd card even by using windows
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2021-01-29T18:41:23 < jpa-> kakium69: outside the phone of course
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2021-01-29T20:52:16 < qyx> how can I select all alternative pins for a peripheral in cube,
2021-01-29T20:52:34 < qyx> am I supposed to click all of them and check?
2021-01-29T20:53:50 < Steffanx> did you try ctrl+click to see the alternatives?
2021-01-29T20:54:15 < qyx> where?
2021-01-29T20:54:49 < Steffanx> when it selected one, you can ctrl+click on a pin to see its alternatives.
2021-01-29T20:57:07 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/MiuxQGj that
2021-01-29T20:57:12 < Steffanx> 's all it can do i guess
2021-01-29T20:57:23 < Steffanx> not automatically select the alternatives, because ... what alternative should it pick?
2021-01-29T20:58:05 < zyp> the wrong one
2021-01-29T20:58:32 < Steffanx> thanks zyp 
2021-01-29T20:58:39 < zyp> np
2021-01-29T20:58:51 < Steffanx> :)
2021-01-29T21:01:46 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iDmcM/Screenshot_2021-01-29_20-01-28.png
2021-01-29T21:01:49 < qyx> I just click and see this
2021-01-29T21:01:52 < qyx> whitout ctrl
2021-01-29T21:02:36 < qyx> but when I want to move eg. SDMMC3_D2 somewhere else, I have to click all surrouding pins and maybe I find one offering D2 as an alternative
2021-01-29T21:02:37 < Steffanx> oh i guess it cannot automagically select all alternatives
2021-01-29T21:02:41 < Steffanx> no
2021-01-29T21:02:52 < Steffanx> ctrl+click on the current D2 and it will highlight the alternatives
2021-01-29T21:03:45 < Steffanx> in my screenshot PA5 was the selected CEC pin and the other two the alternatives
2021-01-29T21:04:28  * PaulFertser got his second part of sputnik today
2021-01-29T21:04:52 < Steffanx> heh 2nd time to get sick?
2021-01-29T21:04:59 < PaulFertser> Yet to be seen.
2021-01-29T21:05:09 < Steffanx> Today i read russia offered 100M sputniks to the EU.
2021-01-29T21:05:10 < PaulFertser> My mother had it tough both times.
2021-01-29T21:06:59 < Steffanx> hm
2021-01-29T21:07:02 < Steffanx> fun fun
2021-01-29T21:09:25 < Steffanx> You have to manually select the alternative ofcourse, qyx 
2021-01-29T21:14:08 < qyx> id does nothing
2021-01-29T21:14:42 < zyp> cube working well
2021-01-29T21:14:52 < mawk> of course
2021-01-29T21:15:43 < Steffanx> then there is not alternative maybe?
2021-01-29T21:15:54 < Steffanx> what part is this qyx ?
2021-01-29T21:16:01 < zyp> mp153
2021-01-29T21:16:22 < Steffanx> thanks qyp :P
2021-01-29T21:16:59 < Steffanx> A/C/D/F? (if it matters?)
2021-01-29T21:20:03 < qyx> 153AABx
2021-01-29T21:21:00 < Steffanx> are you even sure there are alternatives for those pins?
2021-01-29T21:21:02 < qyx> indeed there are alternatives, I have found some with my intuition and fast hands
2021-01-29T21:21:53 < Steffanx> ok then i can only confirm its indeed broken :P
2021-01-29T21:24:46 < qyx> no worky for you?
2021-01-29T21:25:48 < Steffanx> idk i have to look alternative first to confirm it does not work
2021-01-29T21:27:34 < Steffanx> but for the sdmmc3 signals i changed there are not alternatives, in this packagfe
2021-01-29T21:28:31 < qyx> select quadspi
2021-01-29T21:28:48 < qyx> quadspi_clk is both on PB2 (T13 ball)
2021-01-29T21:29:01 < qyx> and PG7 
2021-01-29T21:29:04 < qyx> W10 ball
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2021-01-29T21:31:14 < Steffanx> https://imgur.com/a/DNcFbJ6 maybe you dont see the blue vs gray? :P
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2021-01-29T21:34:19 < qyx> I have no blues
2021-01-29T21:34:20 < qyx> hm
2021-01-29T21:34:57 < Steffanx> this is cubemx btw
2021-01-29T21:35:17 < Steffanx> 6.0.1
2021-01-29T21:36:44 < qyx> I have 6.1.1
2021-01-29T21:40:29 < Steffanx> hah that is the problem it seems
2021-01-29T21:41:24 < Steffanx> installed 6.1.1 and it not worky
2021-01-29T21:42:31 < qyx> lol
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2021-01-29T21:47:01 < Steffanx> oh it does work
2021-01-29T21:47:16 < Steffanx> you have to click longer
2021-01-29T21:47:29 < Steffanx> *keep the left mouse button down longer
2021-01-29T21:47:57 < Steffanx> and press ctrl
2021-01-29T21:55:22 < qyx> oh it starts to blink
2021-01-29T21:55:27 < qyx> great
2021-01-29T21:55:57 < qyx> ty
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2021-01-29T22:13:56 < qyx> so I managed to fit most of the things I wanted in the baord
2021-01-29T22:14:04 < qyx> and still half of the space is free
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--- Day changed Sat Jan 30 2021
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2021-01-30T01:28:47 < karlp> heh, shit I didn't know existed : https://www.amazon.com/desktop-computer-companion-accessories-storage/dp/B006VAD2C6/
2021-01-30T01:29:11 < karlp> (I just bought a new case, mATX slim, down frrom an 10 yo, generic atx mini tower
2021-01-30T01:38:27 < jadew> I think amazon is moving has already moved some of their warehouses from UK
2021-01-30T01:38:35 < jadew> my latest order comes from Poland
2021-01-30T01:38:53 < jadew> s/is moving//
2021-01-30T01:41:21 < jadew> 10 years from now, britons will try to immigrate into Poland and the polish will complain that because of them, their wages are going down
2021-01-30T01:41:21 < karlp> was it from amazon, or "sells on amazon" ?
2021-01-30T01:41:28 < jadew> sold by amazon
2021-01-30T01:41:48 < karlp> 10 years? you mean, like yesterday?
2021-01-30T01:41:53 < jadew> haha
2021-01-30T01:43:29 < jadew> "Dispatched from and sold by Amazon."
2021-01-30T01:45:13 < jadew> funny how these things go, they complained about the polish and thought that if they closed their borders, there would be more dough for them
2021-01-30T01:46:12 < jadew> instead the dough factory moved to where the cheaper labor is found
2021-01-30T01:46:24 < jadew> it wasn't just about the labor tho, they didn't want to have to deal with customs
2021-01-30T01:48:30 < jadew> I'm surprised the GBP is getting stronger vs the EUR
2021-01-30T01:48:42 < jadew> slightly, but still
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2021-01-30T02:10:10 < kakium69> how do I know in lunix if partition is fat32 or exfat
2021-01-30T02:10:34 < kakium69> I assume both are mounted as same type
2021-01-30T02:10:38 < kakium69> vfat
2021-01-30T02:13:20 < kakium69> or the sd card really is fat32
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2021-01-30T02:46:40 < jadew> aandrew, if you watch that movie I recommended, only part 1 is a comedy
2021-01-30T02:47:16 < jadew> not sure what's the deal with part 2, I just saw it and it's kinda pointless
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2021-01-30T03:08:15 < kakium69> this card is readerroring hard
2021-01-30T03:13:05 < kakium69> luckily I always use ddrescue for copying shit so I caught it
2021-01-30T03:13:29 < kakium69> after read error the transfer grinds to halt
2021-01-30T03:14:07 < kakium69> eject the card and resume and it's back on track
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2021-01-30T03:19:09 < kakium69> 2 years in a phone and it's toast
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2021-01-30T13:24:04 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=PduHaacGTqM guitar benchmark song
2021-01-30T13:52:20 < Steffanx> I refuse to use ytm kakium69. Ads and cant even fast forward a bit
2021-01-30T13:53:35 < kakium69> idk what you mean
2021-01-30T13:54:15 < kakium69> I have none of those issues
2021-01-30T13:54:28 < Steffanx> You pay? Use an app?
2021-01-30T13:54:35 < kakium69> browser
2021-01-30T13:54:46 < kakium69> I don't pay
2021-01-30T13:55:18 < Steffanx> Anyway, doesnt work on phone 
2021-01-30T13:55:25 < kakium69> ah
2021-01-30T14:10:21 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: does this work? https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=5Y2yoadwSQ0&player_style=youtube&autoplay=1&local=1&continue_autoplay=1&listen=1&=continue=1
2021-01-30T14:35:48 < Steffanx> seems to work BrainDamage 
2021-01-30T14:37:02 < BrainDamage> enable autoplay, listen mode, and autoplay next track and you'll have youtube music experience
2021-01-30T14:38:10 < Steffanx> but the kakium69 posts ytm links ;)
2021-01-30T14:42:02 < BrainDamage> you can redirect them
2021-01-30T14:42:33 < BrainDamage> there's an extension for android to do it
2021-01-30T14:54:49 < Steffanx> Nah the interface is still so-so
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2021-01-30T15:42:40 < Laurenceb> >Sam Summers was sitting at home with his penis wrapped in an internet-connected chastity cage when he got a weird message on the app that connects to the device. Someone told him they had taken control and they wanted around $1,000 in Bitcoin to give control back.
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2021-01-30T16:08:03 < Steffanx> thanks Laurenceb . got something more interesting to share?
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2021-01-30T17:52:16 < aandrew> jadew: I am having trouble finding it
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2021-01-30T18:59:18 < mouseghost> Steffanx, did laurence send a link to that story?
2021-01-30T18:59:40 < Steffanx> Idk
2021-01-30T19:00:26 < mouseghost> oh its a story from vice
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2021-01-30T19:23:55 < mawk> https://serveur.io/eliquids.jpg
2021-01-30T19:23:57 < mawk> look Steffanx 
2021-01-30T19:24:00 < mawk> what I received
2021-01-30T19:24:11 < mawk> I can start my own production company now
2021-01-30T19:24:18 < mawk> shipping was $100
2021-01-30T19:24:46 < mawk> I will make a little liter now
2021-01-30T19:25:15 < Steffanx> Will you inject it?
2021-01-30T19:25:22 < zyp> very pro milk foamer
2021-01-30T19:26:15 < mawk> lol yes zyp 
2021-01-30T19:26:21 < mawk> it's a capuccino foamer it says on the box
2021-01-30T19:26:24 < mawk> but I will use it to mix
2021-01-30T19:26:35 < mawk> it's a blunt tip syringe Steffanx 
2021-01-30T19:26:40 < mawk> you can't inject with that
2021-01-30T19:26:47 < mawk> it's just to take a precise dose of nicotine without dying
2021-01-30T19:26:57 < Steffanx> Oh yes you can 
2021-01-30T19:27:05 < mawk> how
2021-01-30T19:27:09 < mawk> by pushing very hard?
2021-01-30T19:27:29 < Steffanx> Exactly  or using preexisting holes
2021-01-30T19:27:42 < mawk> lol
2021-01-30T19:28:05 < mawk> it's a bit large for using pre-existing holes
2021-01-30T19:28:10 < mawk> since you might want to remove the tip
2021-01-30T19:28:19 < mawk> 5mL syringes work better
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2021-01-30T20:11:33 < aandrew> mawk> it's a blunt tip syringe Steffanx
2021-01-30T20:11:36 < aandrew> mawk> you can't inject with that
2021-01-30T20:11:49 < aandrew> of course you can, it's all about the force you exert
2021-01-30T20:12:05 < aandrew> ah steffanx already said it
2021-01-30T20:12:38 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-01-30T20:13:09 < zyp> give me an hour and I can tell mawk the same
2021-01-30T20:13:23 < aandrew> lol
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2021-01-30T20:25:07 < jpa-> mawk: so are you using so much nicotine that it's worth it to buy in bulk, or are you starting to actually sell it?
2021-01-30T20:25:50 < Steffanx> using.
2021-01-30T20:26:42 < Thorn> wtf is going on, uart is working fine @ 114800 or 115800 but @ 115200 the characters are garbled)
2021-01-30T20:27:25 < mouseghost> Thorn, issue with the clock?
2021-01-30T20:27:37 < mawk> it's worth to buy in bulk even when I don't use so much jpa- 
2021-01-30T20:27:47 < mawk> because there's an EU law that prevents selling more than 18mg/mL in 10mL vials
2021-01-30T20:27:59 < mawk> so if I do that I have to buy 60 of them to fill up my bottles
2021-01-30T20:28:07 < Thorn> same chip is running usb normally, and I'm assuming usb has tighter clock requirements
2021-01-30T20:28:17 < mawk> it's super expensive, makes a lot of plastic waste, also juice stays on the wall of the vials so there are losses there as well
2021-01-30T20:28:23 < mawk> buying in bulk is the cheapest and easiest option
2021-01-30T20:28:30 < jpa-> Thorn: what does it look like on logic analyzer?
2021-01-30T20:28:45 < mawk> I just measure 60mL of nicotine solution, then top up to 1L with 50:50 mix of base, and that's it
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2021-01-30T20:41:42 < Steffanx> no THC mawk ?
2021-01-30T20:42:06 < mawk> what no
2021-01-30T20:42:08 < mawk> I hate that stuff
2021-01-30T20:42:14 < mawk> I want 100% of my brain at any time
2021-01-30T20:42:18 < mawk> I hate alcohol too
2021-01-30T20:44:06 < mouseghost> based
2021-01-30T20:47:31 < mawk> no it's nicotine salts mouseghost 
2021-01-30T20:47:34 < mawk> it's not freebase nicotine
2021-01-30T20:47:39 < mawk> it says so on the picture
2021-01-30T20:48:04 < mouseghost> mawk, ive meant that "i hate that stuff \ i want 100% of my brain at any time \ i hate alcohol too"
2021-01-30T20:48:09 < mawk> yes I know
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2021-01-30T20:58:36 < machinehum> How much did that cost?
2021-01-30T20:59:00 < machinehum> lol @ Coffee frother
2021-01-30T20:59:08 < machinehum> Frothing up that nicotine?
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2021-01-30T23:14:47 < Steffanx> hm'
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2021-01-30T23:45:35 < qyx> meh, vias suck
2021-01-30T23:46:13 < catphish> i dunno, i think they're pretty useful
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2021-01-30T23:57:43 < qyx> yeah, but they suck
2021-01-30T23:57:53 < qyx> via in pad is indeed not a good idea
--- Day changed Sun Jan 31 2021
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2021-01-31T00:09:21 < antto> qyx, what's the drill diameter in the gerbers?
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2021-01-31T01:04:07 < mawk> yes frothing up my nicotine
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2021-01-31T01:12:05 < Steffanx> Cant you make your own patches with it?
2021-01-31T01:12:33 < Steffanx> Saves you the time of putting that thing in yoye mouth all the time
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2021-01-31T01:20:59 < Steffanx> Your*
2021-01-31T01:25:05 < mawk> I like making big clouds
2021-01-31T01:25:15 < mawk> probably I can make my own patches yes
2021-01-31T01:26:08 < mawk> but muh big clouds
2021-01-31T01:27:59 < qyx> those DF13 connectors are so tiny I am nearly unable to "crimp" a single 4 wire cable
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2021-01-31T01:33:23 < englishman> man
2021-01-31T01:33:28 < englishman> never try to crimp that shit
2021-01-31T01:33:36 < englishman> just get pigtails + cut + solder
2021-01-31T01:33:45 < englishman> then get custom cables for >1 qty
2021-01-31T01:39:21 < qyx> I need one now
2021-01-31T01:39:26 < qyx> fuk it
2021-01-31T01:39:29 < qyx> done somehow
2021-01-31T01:39:50 < qyx> lets connect the thing to usb
2021-01-31T01:42:28 < qyx> obv it doesn't work
2021-01-31T01:43:24 < qyx> yeah I dumb, forgot to solder some beads from the bottom
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2021-01-31T02:02:43 < qyx> Bus 001 Device 044: ID 0424:4050 Microchip Technology, Inc. (formerly SMSC) Ultra Fast Media Reader
2021-01-31T02:02:46 < qyx> Bus 001 Device 043: ID 0424:2640 Microchip Technology, Inc. (formerly SMSC) USB 2.0 Hub
2021-01-31T02:02:49 < qyx> \o/
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2021-01-31T02:11:15 < Laurenceb> anyone got any ideas for how to debug broken internal mic in lunix?
2021-01-31T02:11:30 < Laurenceb> I'm getting really low volume + crackles at ~100% volume
2021-01-31T02:11:41 < kakium69> blow some air into it
2021-01-31T02:12:40 < Laurenceb> yeah theres some response there..
2021-01-31T02:12:46 < Laurenceb> volume setting has no effect
2021-01-31T02:13:59 < Laurenceb> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-P-Y-and-Z-series-Notebooks/Y580-Mic-too-low-using-Realtek-Drivers/m-p/894211?page=2
2021-01-31T02:14:04 < Laurenceb> lol doesnt even work on windozer
2021-01-31T02:19:08 < kakium69> replace your lunixin komputer
2021-01-31T02:19:13 < kakium69> no joke
2021-01-31T02:22:54 < kakium69> I lunixed yesterday on surface 1
2021-01-31T02:23:13 < kakium69> 0 input devices worked
2021-01-31T02:23:27 < kakium69> keyboard nah, touchpad nah, touch screen nah
2021-01-31T02:24:01 < kakium69> used usb keyboard to connect to bluetooth keyboard to free another usb
2021-01-31T02:28:25 < mawk> Laurenceb: 
2021-01-31T02:28:27 < mawk> I had this problem, and managed to fix it!  I'm using Microsoft drivers, and when I went to recording devices>microphone properties>advanced, I changed the quality to Studio Qualtiy (192000 Hz), and unchecked the box saying "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device"
2021-01-31T02:28:29 < mawk>  
2021-01-31T02:28:31 < mawk> Hope this helps, as I tried to fix it for about a month before stumbling upon this today.  
2021-01-31T02:28:38 < mawk> show your pulseaudio config
2021-01-31T02:28:52 < Laurenceb> which file?
2021-01-31T02:29:02 < mawk> paste output of pacmd info
2021-01-31T02:29:07 < mawk> on a pastebin
2021-01-31T02:29:34 < Steffanx> Don't trust this hacker gut aka mawk:P
2021-01-31T02:29:40 < mawk> :(
2021-01-31T02:30:11 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-01-31T02:30:42 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-01-31T02:30:45 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/SASAYqPf
2021-01-31T02:31:01 < mawk> good
2021-01-31T02:31:32 < mawk> well first the balance is all on the left mic
2021-01-31T02:31:34 < mawk> that's weird
2021-01-31T02:31:36 < mawk> why did you do that
2021-01-31T02:31:47 < mawk>  volume: front-left: 65536 / 100% / 0.00 dB,   front-right: 0 /   0% / -inf dB
2021-01-31T02:31:49 < mawk>          balance -1.00
2021-01-31T02:31:51 < mawk>  base volume: 21535 /  33% / -29.00 dB
2021-01-31T02:32:16 < mawk> also sample spec is 96kHz now, the guy in lenovo said to put studio quality 192000
2021-01-31T02:32:19 < mawk> but first, fix the balance
2021-01-31T02:32:41 < mawk> use pavucontrol or whatever to restore the balance 
2021-01-31T02:33:51 < Laurenceb> ok, someone suggested that balance ot fix it
2021-01-31T02:33:56 < Laurenceb> but it doesnt...
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2021-01-31T02:36:27 < mawk> a
2021-01-31T02:36:47 < kakium69> b
2021-01-31T02:36:54 < mawk> o
2021-01-31T02:37:44 < Steffanx> ğ
2021-01-31T02:38:25 < Laurenceb> no luck chsanging it to 192000
2021-01-31T02:39:04 < kakium69> so
2021-01-31T02:39:10 < kakium69> has it always been so?
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2021-01-31T02:44:52 < kakium69> stop wanking lunix on relic computer if you are in to be productive at all
2021-01-31T02:45:02 < Laurenceb> I never use the mic...
2021-01-31T02:45:35 < kakium69> it sounds like hardware issue
2021-01-31T02:45:46 < Laurenceb> maybe
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2021-01-31T02:48:32 < qyx> englishman: any legit place to get them? except ali/ebay
2021-01-31T02:50:27 < mawk> it fails on windows too kakium69 
2021-01-31T02:50:31 < mawk> you're not follwing
2021-01-31T02:58:39 < qyx> meh that USB2641 reader reads sandisk ultra only at 20MB/s
2021-01-31T02:59:06 < qyx> but I must say it is quite stable
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2021-01-31T03:15:40 < qyx> zyp: re: usb hs mass readout, I prototyped the approach with muxed SD and a dedicated usb hs reader, it is not working as fast as I expected 14.8GiB 0:16:23 [15.4MiB/s]
2021-01-31T03:17:23 < zyp> with an off the shelf reader chip?
2021-01-31T03:18:28 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/a2I2i.JPG
2021-01-31T03:18:54 < qyx> yeah, USB2641
2021-01-31T03:19:42 < qyx> so basically if I beat 15 MB/s with emmc and H7, it is fine
2021-01-31T03:22:33 < zyp> are you sure the reader chip is the bottleneck though?
2021-01-31T03:22:58 < qyx> I tried a noname class 10 sd, the same speed
2021-01-31T03:23:02 < qyx> tried without hub, same
2021-01-31T03:23:04 < qyx> shor cable, same
2021-01-31T03:23:23 < zyp> tried a different host?
2021-01-31T03:23:38 < qyx> hm, no
2021-01-31T03:23:50 < qyx> at least I could try usb2 port instead of usb3
2021-01-31T03:24:42 < qyx> same
2021-01-31T03:24:55 < qyx> 19.5 at the beginning, 12.5 later
2021-01-31T03:25:12 < zyp> I'd check the usb flow control signalling with a bus analyzer, that'd tell you whether the device is telling you to wait or whether the host is not polling fast enough
2021-01-31T03:25:20 < qyx> maybe it is switching between 25/50 MHz SDR
2021-01-31T03:29:23 < qyx> card's clock is running at 48 MHz
2021-01-31T03:29:37 < qyx> and it is not clocking continuously
2021-01-31T03:31:24 < zyp> IIRC the clock should be running continously when a command is pending, so the clock stopping means the card goes idle
2021-01-31T03:31:51 < qyx> it may as well be aliasing on my scope
2021-01-31T03:32:21 < qyx> it shows interesting artifacts
2021-01-31T03:33:34 < qyx> in a chink reader the same card goes to 18 MB/s
2021-01-31T03:35:40 < qyx> I can read two cards at once, 16.8 + 18.2
2021-01-31T03:36:30 < qyx> (from the same hub)
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2021-01-31T03:42:39 < qyx> now I need to make the card shorter by 0.5 mm :>
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2021-01-31T04:27:27 < englishman> hacking together this lil app for a garmin watch
2021-01-31T04:27:40 < englishman> this is pretty cool, they made their own java-like language
2021-01-31T04:27:50 < englishman> it's like everything pebble wanted to be
2021-01-31T04:37:41 < aandrew> nice
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2021-01-31T07:33:19 < Laurenceb> for fucks sake
2021-01-31T07:33:32 < Laurenceb> its well past the point where making my own sound card would be easier
2021-01-31T07:33:43 < Laurenceb> fuck lunix
2021-01-31T07:37:04 < jadew> do any of you own stock for which you get dividends?
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2021-01-31T12:12:08 < catphish> i just got me a fenix 5+, much beautiful
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2021-01-31T14:50:52 < englishman> i do jadew 
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2021-01-31T15:39:40 < englishman> fenugrec: https://i.redd.it/e9otd1im6ie61.jpg
2021-01-31T15:44:19 < englishman> context for francophobes https://financialpost.com/telecom/media/grind-yourself-go-kill-him-telus-sorry-for-badly-translated-french-tweets
2021-01-31T16:03:04 < fenugrec> englishman, hahahahah
2021-01-31T16:05:45 < fenugrec> that's really minimum-effort translation right there. Worthy of the best chinglish 
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2021-01-31T16:37:17 < mawk> lol englishman 
2021-01-31T16:37:23 < mawk> I don't get what they wanted to say
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2021-01-31T17:06:47 < fenugrec> mawk, original text was "ground yourself, go kill it" - sortof carpe diem but more "edgy"
2021-01-31T17:07:17 < fenugrec> "grind yourself go commit murder" is pretty metal tho
2021-01-31T17:07:32 < mawk> lol
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2021-01-31T19:34:36 < Steffanx> Dont you like dutch flatness mawk? http://imgur.com/a/rMCSbes
2021-01-31T19:34:55 < Steffanx> And windmill
2021-01-31T19:35:22 < mawk> yes
2021-01-31T19:35:37 < mawk>  yes I saw the windmill
2021-01-31T19:35:41 < mawk> how do you say
2021-01-31T19:35:45 < mawk> molen?
2021-01-31T19:35:49 < mawk> even in singular form
2021-01-31T19:36:07 < Steffanx> 1 molen, two molens
2021-01-31T19:36:12 < BrainDamage> what's the windmills for
2021-01-31T19:36:23 < BrainDamage> pumps or grinding cereals?
2021-01-31T19:37:35 < Steffanx> To behonest idk. I think it was used as a pump, but not sure
2021-01-31T19:37:53 < Steffanx> I couldnt get to there on my bicycle easily
2021-01-31T19:38:17 < Steffanx> And I was tired already -_-
2021-01-31T19:39:16 < PaulFertser> How long was your push bike trip Steffanx?
2021-01-31T19:40:34 < Steffanx> 1 hour and 50 minutes
2021-01-31T19:40:48 < PaulFertser> And how far?
2021-01-31T19:40:55 < Steffanx> Im out of shape MUCH. lol
2021-01-31T19:41:48 < Steffanx> Also not a pushbike, but a cross-hybrid.
2021-01-31T19:42:05 < Steffanx> 40km PaulFertser. That includes the stops to take the photo(s) 
2021-01-31T19:42:39 < Steffanx> I think its over 3 years ago I did > 30km 
2021-01-31T19:42:43 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: sounds like a nice ride
2021-01-31T19:43:38 < Steffanx> Luckily it was only -2 C and hardly any wind
2021-01-31T19:43:54 < PaulFertser> No ice hopefully?
2021-01-31T19:45:10 < Steffanx> A little
2021-01-31T19:45:30 < Steffanx> It cold a bit cold by the time the sun was "gone"
2021-01-31T19:45:37 < Steffanx> Got a bit cold*
2021-01-31T19:46:05 < PaulFertser> How do you protect your hands? I seem to be unable to find warm enough gloves.
2021-01-31T19:46:27 < effractur> PaulFertser: you don't need warm gloves you need wind tight gloves
2021-01-31T19:46:59 < effractur> but any semi decent brand gloves should work for this
2021-01-31T19:47:05 < PaulFertser> effractur: the handlebar feels quite cold too.
2021-01-31T19:47:47 < jpa-> at -20°C and windy, finding warm enough gloves is somewhat difficult
2021-01-31T19:47:59 < effractur> hjehe yea at -20 it is
2021-01-31T19:48:09 < effractur> PaulFertser: they are rubber right so should not bet that cold
2021-01-31T19:48:15 < jpa-> i have a pair of those that heat with electricity, but it's a bit annoying having to charge the battery etc.
2021-01-31T19:49:30 < jpa-> https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/H64c64c277b724c349bfaf09486d1360aV/220748236/H64c64c277b724c349bfaf09486d1360aV.jpg_.webp   i haven't tried handlebar muffs yet
2021-01-31T19:50:51 < Steffanx> I use https://www.mantel.com/gripgrab-primavera-merino-ii-fietshandschoenen PaulFertser . Work fine. I hardly have cold hand/finger issues
2021-01-31T19:51:25  * jpa- gripgrabs Steffanx
2021-01-31T19:52:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: interesting, and they do not look windproof
2021-01-31T19:54:35 < Steffanx> https://www.gripgrab.com/products/primavera-merino-midseason-glove-ii "Light wind barrier"  ;)
2021-01-31T19:55:01 < Steffanx> so not windproof.
2021-01-31T19:55:47 < Steffanx> haha jpa- those muffs.
2021-01-31T19:56:27 < Steffanx> Should ask bitmask to add his magic touch to that
2021-01-31T19:56:48 < bitmask> :o
2021-01-31T20:01:27 < Steffanx> I looked it up for you BrainDamage . It was used as a pump and its from 1857
2021-01-31T20:02:03 < BrainDamage> thanks
2021-01-31T20:02:11 < Steffanx> updated a bit in 1920 and it still runs.
2021-01-31T20:04:16 < Steffanx> not because it has too, but because it can.
2021-01-31T20:46:10 < Steffanx> -o
2021-01-31T20:54:36 < qyx> how do I free SWD pins for GPIO?
2021-01-31T20:54:43 < qyx> interesting, cannot find any pointers so far
2021-01-31T20:56:56 < qyx> oh
2021-01-31T20:57:10 < qyx> set to input/output pp, noice
2021-01-31T21:11:16 < emeb_mac> Fun times in Dutch-land: https://www.military.com/video/combat-vehicles/combat-tanks/awesome-leopard-tank-brake-test/3113383343001
2021-01-31T21:34:50 < Steffanx> i wonder if we still have any of those tanks emeb_mac 
2021-01-31T21:35:25 < Steffanx> but lol, at least one couldnt hold his nerves
2021-01-31T21:37:49 < aandrew> yeah fuck that shit
2021-01-31T21:38:05 < aandrew> a successful but unnecessary stunt
2021-01-31T21:41:47 < Steffanx> if its not faked..
2021-01-31T21:41:55 < Steffanx> something like that easy to fake
2021-01-31T21:42:09 < aandrew> well it is the military, probably enough testosterone involved to be real
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2021-01-31T22:07:56 < mawk> my Monero application in the kde menu was lacking a logo
2021-01-31T22:08:08 < mawk> and I wanted exactly the logo stored in the app, not a random shitty logo from the internet
2021-01-31T22:08:28 < mawk> so I wrote a script to extract all chunks with a PNG signature from the executable, then I looked at all of them to see which was the logo
2021-01-31T22:08:40 < mawk> and logo was at address 0x2b1f20f in the executable in the end, so extracted it
2021-01-31T22:08:47 < mawk> and now it has logo https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210131210843369.png
2021-01-31T22:08:52 < mawk> this is time well spent
2021-01-31T22:09:48 < mawk> next question of qyx "I can't debug my board anymore, how do I restore SWD pins?"
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2021-01-31T22:19:46 < Thorn> whose intern is this https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/545300/why-does-my-blue-led-keep-burning-out
2021-01-31T22:20:27 < mawk> lol
2021-01-31T22:29:49 < qyx> mawk pls
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2021-01-31T23:10:57 < qyx> so travis-ci is basically dead, isn't it?
2021-01-31T23:11:33 < karlp> wht happened?
2021-01-31T23:13:35 < qyx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_CI#Company
2021-01-31T23:14:08 < effractur> na they did some cost cutting stuff
2021-01-31T23:14:13 < effractur> and pissing off all opensource bla
2021-01-31T23:14:42 < karlp> well, massive free resources was always going to die off
2021-01-31T23:14:58 < karlp> it didn't really have a lot of value to buy for work
2021-01-31T23:18:45 < BrainDamage> less retarded use of cryptocurrency: make it build CI jobs of people instead of wasting on hashes
2021-01-31T23:18:55 < Laurenceb> fucks sake lunic
2021-01-31T23:19:09 < Laurenceb> the whole audio system is fucked
2021-01-31T23:19:22 < BrainDamage> also ensures reproducibility and tests on so many platforms
2021-01-31T23:19:32 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: that's well known since 2001
2021-01-31T23:19:39 < Laurenceb> looks like all input audio is put into a buffer then ~30% dropped and the rest corrupted
2021-01-31T23:19:50 < Laurenceb> I thought i could fix it with usb audio and microphones
2021-01-31T23:19:56 < Laurenceb> but the whole system is broken
2021-01-31T23:20:08 < BrainDamage> but chances are, like most of your problems, you're doing something weird and blaming on the platform
2021-01-31T23:20:19 < Laurenceb> looks like about 0.5s delay and ~30% of data dropped
2021-01-31T23:20:34 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb tried reinstalling it?
2021-01-31T23:20:39 < BrainDamage> pretty sure that doesn't happen normally, or you'd hear it
2021-01-31T23:20:45 < Laurenceb> lol reinstall wtf
2021-01-31T23:20:52 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: output works fine
2021-01-31T23:20:59 < Laurenceb> this seems to happen to inputs
2021-01-31T23:21:05 < BrainDamage> still
2021-01-31T23:21:18 < Steffanx> if this is the same system you tried to use for your mems audio shit then im pretty sure you fucked osmething up in the process
2021-01-31T23:21:25 < qyx> you are using arch, aren'ŧ you?
2021-01-31T23:21:33 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: no its not that one
2021-01-31T23:21:33 < Steffanx> lol, Laurenceb using arch?
2021-01-31T23:21:38 < Laurenceb> qyx: Lunix mint
2021-01-31T23:21:41 < qyx> oh mint
2021-01-31T23:21:45 < qyx> the same kind
2021-01-31T23:21:54 < qyx> you should try redhat
2021-01-31T23:22:08 < Steffanx> Do you wear your lunix tie when you do this Laurenceb ?
2021-01-31T23:22:20 < BrainDamage> first of all, how the hell are you trying to record?
2021-01-31T23:22:21 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-01-31T23:22:34 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: just for video chatz
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2021-01-31T23:23:02 < BrainDamage> open a recording program, record a clip, see what comes out
2021-01-31T23:23:07 < BrainDamage> better yet, upload it
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2021-01-31T23:26:41 < Laurenceb> https://filebin.net/1lo0cvwqo853hdoo/test-mic.wav?t=uq7ea0ks
2021-01-31T23:30:23 < BrainDamage> ok, then please pastebin the output of arecord -l
2021-01-31T23:30:45 < BrainDamage> also, take a screenshot of alsamixer, in the capture(f4) section
2021-01-31T23:32:33 < Laurenceb> wait something happened
2021-01-31T23:32:46 < Laurenceb> options snd_hda_intel power_save=0
2021-01-31T23:32:59 < Laurenceb> now I can get clean white noise from the mic
2021-01-31T23:33:02 < Laurenceb> but no sound
2021-01-31T23:33:30 < Laurenceb> card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: ALC269 Analog [ALC269 Analog]
2021-01-31T23:33:30 < Laurenceb>   Subdevices: 1/1
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2021-01-31T23:35:45 < Laurenceb> maybe its connected to external
2021-01-31T23:36:10 < BrainDamage> I asked you some precise infos, not go off a tangent
2021-01-31T23:36:17 < Laurenceb> lol sorry
2021-01-31T23:36:33 < Laurenceb> this looks hopeful anyway, at least its doing something properly
2021-01-31T23:36:39 < Laurenceb> I'll try an external mic
2021-01-31T23:36:56 < Laurenceb> I added options snd_hda_intel power_save=0 to alsa-base.conf
2021-01-31T23:36:58 < BrainDamage> the step after would be checking PA log
2021-01-31T23:37:23 < BrainDamage> yeah, that generally helps, powersaving in most audio cards is broken
2021-01-31T23:37:43 < BrainDamage> and generally pointless for their consumption ...
2021-01-31T23:38:34 < Laurenceb> yeah it works
2021-01-31T23:38:42 < Laurenceb> v impressive 50hz buzz rejection
2021-01-31T23:41:54 < Laurenceb> looks like I just need to a way to fix the internal/external switching now
2021-01-31T23:43:00 < BrainDamage> you can force jack detection to be disabled
2021-01-31T23:43:12 < BrainDamage> if not even override the jack port entirely
2021-01-31T23:43:21 < BrainDamage> try hdajackretask
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2021-01-31T23:54:46 < Laurenceb> isnt jack an alternative to pulseaudio?
2021-01-31T23:55:40 < BrainDamage> i meant the physical jacks, not the software called jack
2021-01-31T23:56:16 < BrainDamage> you don't need jack the software unless you have deterministic latency and/or audio production needs
2021-01-31T23:57:31 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2021-01-31T23:57:56 < Laurenceb> yeah for some reason plugging in to headphone or audio out disables speakers
2021-01-31T23:58:14 < Laurenceb> but mic seems permanently switched to external input
2021-01-31T23:58:33 < Laurenceb> previously it was permanently on internal but it was losing ~30% of the data
2021-01-31T23:58:36 < Laurenceb> very weird
2021-01-31T23:59:04 < BrainDamage> use hdajackretask, it's an alsa program
2021-01-31T23:59:08 < Laurenceb> -ok
--- Log closed Mon Feb 01 00:00:30 2021