--- Log opened Mon Feb 01 00:00:30 2021
2021-02-01T00:02:43 < Laurenceb> ok its running, but what can I do with it?
2021-02-01T00:02:58 < Laurenceb> the autodetected configuration looks sane...
2021-02-01T00:03:25 < Laurenceb> oh force external mic to "unconnected"?
2021-02-01T00:04:39 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-02-01T00:06:56 < Laurenceb> hmm now I have no mic in alsamixer
2021-02-01T00:06:57 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-02-01T00:08:01 < BrainDamage> re-enable it then, I forgot the proper procedure
2021-02-01T00:08:06 < BrainDamage> ask the guys in #alsa
2021-02-01T00:08:16 < BrainDamage> but you absolutely can force disable it
2021-02-01T00:09:11 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-01T00:09:13 < Laurenceb> thanks
2021-02-01T00:13:18 < karlp> hrm, I can buy a new vacuum cleaner cheaper than the replacement battery pack it uses: https://www.say-ahh.com/228-eurospec-electrolux-sirbp252li-wireless-vacuum-cleaner-aeg-120.html vs https://darel.lv/en/batteries-and-chargers-for-vacuum-cleaners/6203-aeg-electrolux-ultrapower-battery-pack-sirbp252li-li-ion-252v-140127175564.html
2021-02-01T00:15:38 < karlp> $200 aud frrom electrolux and not even in stock. nice one.
2021-02-01T00:16:46 < qyx> so USARTx start detection can wake STM32 from stop 1 mode (L452)
2021-02-01T00:16:48 < qyx> since when
2021-02-01T00:16:50 < qyx> thats great
2021-02-01T00:30:23 < antto> loirens, why u wanna make a soundcard?
2021-02-01T00:33:21 < Laurenceb> antto: faster than fixing this shitt
2021-02-01T00:33:25 < Laurenceb> wait lmao
2021-02-01T00:33:34 < Laurenceb> >the laptop mic is digital
2021-02-01T00:33:42 < Laurenceb> sheet no wonder there are issues
2021-02-01T00:33:53 < antto> dafuq is a "digital" mic even
2021-02-01T00:34:05 < Laurenceb> it goes through sigma-delta demod
2021-02-01T00:34:17 < antto> uh
2021-02-01T00:34:55 < Laurenceb> on the realtek not the intel HDA
2021-02-01T00:39:33 < karlp> bleh, run "sensors" have per core temps, run sensors-detect, end up with less sensors...
2021-02-01T00:39:37 < karlp> no backup file created
2021-02-01T00:53:13 < emeb_mac> yay linux!
2021-02-01T00:56:13 < Laurenceb> aha
2021-02-01T00:56:25 < Laurenceb> datasheet to the rescue
2021-02-01T00:56:42 < Laurenceb> I was using loopback to test but that bypasses some of the switching logic
2021-02-01T00:57:00 < Laurenceb> ok so everything works automatically apart from digital mic decoding
2021-02-01T00:57:14 < Laurenceb> alsa mixer has no effect on mic gain
2021-02-01T00:57:21 < Laurenceb> so its really noisy and faint
2021-02-01T00:57:47 < Laurenceb> using model=alc269-dmic fixed almost all of the massing data
2021-02-01T00:57:54 < Laurenceb> *missing
2021-02-01T00:58:16 < Laurenceb> but its still useless as mic boost has no effect on digital microphones
2021-02-01T01:08:42 < Laurenceb> woah
2021-02-01T01:08:45 < Laurenceb> now it works
2021-02-01T01:08:52 < Laurenceb> needed to pulseaudio -k
2021-02-01T01:09:13 < Laurenceb> inb4 it breaks
2021-02-01T01:09:42 < Laurenceb> looks like lunix didnt know what a digital mic or powersaving was
2021-02-01T01:51:40 < Laurenceb> ok wut
2021-02-01T01:51:48 < Laurenceb> it works in skype but nothing else
2021-02-01T01:55:41 < mawk> problem is Laurenceb 
2021-02-01T01:59:50 < Laurenceb> what the fuck
2021-02-01T01:59:51 < jadew> https://twitter.com/justinrohrlich/status/1355964605709873155
2021-02-01T02:00:01 < Laurenceb>  arecord -D hw:0,0 -f S16_LE -r 44100 -c 2  --buffer-time 10000
2021-02-01T02:00:10 < Laurenceb> some reall really broken buffering going on
2021-02-01T02:00:30 < Laurenceb> there is about 0.5s of perfect sound then it all starts to loop and get corrupted
2021-02-01T02:06:09 < Laurenceb> does arecord bypass pulseaudio?
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2021-02-01T02:15:51 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe skype has dsp to fix the mic signal
2021-02-01T02:26:21 < Laurenceb> wew its broken again
2021-02-01T02:26:22 < Laurenceb> wtf
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2021-02-01T02:29:33 < kakium69> cannot enter uefi setup
2021-02-01T02:30:15 < Laurenceb> what the fucking fuck
2021-02-01T02:30:18 < Laurenceb> fuck
2021-02-01T02:30:21 < Laurenceb> fuck lunix
2021-02-01T02:30:30 < Laurenceb> -infinity documentation
2021-02-01T02:30:52 < Laurenceb> how is it possible to the audio to be so broken
2021-02-01T02:31:21 < kakium69> I remember fighting with lunix audio back in 2008 or so
2021-02-01T02:31:36 < kakium69> OSS, ALSA, ESsomething
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2021-02-01T02:32:58 < kakium69> some software needed OSS
2021-02-01T02:33:28 < kakium69> it was that old
2021-02-01T02:35:24 < Laurenceb> what the fuuuuu
2021-02-01T02:35:30 < kakium69> how do I shrink lunix to smaller ssd?
2021-02-01T02:35:32 < Laurenceb> now I cant work out how it ever worked
2021-02-01T02:35:44 < Laurenceb> maybe I should restart alsa
2021-02-01T02:36:09 < kakium69> have you tried on another computer first?
2021-02-01T02:36:41 < kakium69> good thing about lunix is that you can throw the system drive to another machine and continue where you left
2021-02-01T02:36:51 < Laurenceb> how could I, the audio hardware is specific
2021-02-01T02:36:54 < Laurenceb> oh got you
2021-02-01T02:38:57 < kakium69> you need to make something work on bad hardware / drivers?
2021-02-01T02:39:17 < kakium69> and specifically on that audio hardware
2021-02-01T02:39:39 < Laurenceb> yeah I need to use this pc
2021-02-01T02:40:10 < kakium69> o.o
2021-02-01T02:41:35 < Laurenceb> fucked
2021-02-01T02:45:19 < Laurenceb> maybe there is a way to reset the sound card
2021-02-01T02:45:51 < kakium69> is there anything to reset in a soundcard
2021-02-01T02:46:05 < kakium69> does it even have a firmware
2021-02-01T02:46:31 < kakium69> does it have processor
2021-02-01T02:46:35 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-02-01T02:46:50 < Laurenceb> there is pci to hda bridge
2021-02-01T02:48:59 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/4eab0ea196f569ed2085a0fa3729f60eb8edaad1
2021-02-01T02:49:00 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-02-01T02:49:40 < kakium69> tolvards!!
2021-02-01T02:50:54 < Laurenceb> fuck this
2021-02-01T02:51:00 < Laurenceb> back to analogue phones
2021-02-01T02:51:15 < Laurenceb> I'll just use video then hold an analogue phone to my ear
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2021-02-01T03:22:59 < kakium69> back to magnetic tape
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2021-02-01T03:39:36 < Laurenceb> hmm more issues
2021-02-01T03:39:42 < Laurenceb> >use google meeting
2021-02-01T03:39:44 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-02-01T03:39:53 < Laurenceb> this shit cant even see my audio input
2021-02-01T04:02:51 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/529933218296627201/804803015311097896/image0.jpg
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2021-02-01T04:08:21 < jadew> https://imgur.com/a/ZX8uGPL
2021-02-01T04:08:41 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/529933218296627201/805431588606312458/FB_IMG_1612099248787.jpg
2021-02-01T04:09:37 < jadew> haha https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/529933218296627201/805517704580038746/nfwggzaa29e61.png
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2021-02-01T05:05:59 < R2COM> yo
2021-02-01T05:06:20 < R2COM> not sure why but out of a sudden my blackmagic probe does not connect saying that sw-dp scan failed
2021-02-01T05:06:48 < R2COM> happened on a setup which was perfectly working and no wiring was ever touched
2021-02-01T05:07:02 < R2COM> regular routine debugger running with swd
2021-02-01T05:07:12 < R2COM> suddenly it says sw-dp scan failed!
2021-02-01T05:07:16 < R2COM> attaching to remote target failed
2021-02-01T05:07:24 < R2COM> shows correct target voltage of 3V tho
2021-02-01T05:07:45 < R2COM> no restart, reconnection,reset or power cycle of board solves issue
2021-02-01T05:33:36 < aandrew> jadew: I found tales from the golden age
2021-02-01T05:33:55 < jadew> aandrew, did you watch it?
2021-02-01T05:34:07 < aandrew> not yet, I literally just got it
2021-02-01T05:34:13 < jadew> ah, cool, first part?
2021-02-01T05:34:42 < aandrew> it's a 2009 movie iwth 8 substories according to wikipedia
2021-02-01T05:34:47 < aandrew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_from_the_Golden_Age
2021-02-01T05:35:02 < jadew> yeah, but it's in two parts
2021-02-01T05:35:07 < jadew> and the second part is not that good
2021-02-01T05:35:16 < aandrew> ah, I guess it's only the first part then
2021-02-01T05:48:25 < jadew> the atmosphere in the movie reflects the communist era pretty well
2021-02-01T06:14:42 < R2COM> maybe i fucked up PA13/14 with messing with IO (setting as input)
2021-02-01T06:15:02 < R2COM> so i re-wired the f0 now, and connected BOOT0 to High
2021-02-01T06:15:05 < R2COM> and rebooted
2021-02-01T06:15:14 < R2COM> but the shit still cant connect to SWD interface
2021-02-01T06:33:43 < Laurenceb> arg wtf
2021-02-01T06:33:51 < Laurenceb> skype for business is not skype
2021-02-01T06:33:55 < Laurenceb> fuck this work shit
2021-02-01T06:34:08 < Laurenceb> why do they have to use tons of crazy teleconference software
2021-02-01T06:34:30 < Laurenceb> its actually lync wtf
2021-02-01T06:34:51 < Laurenceb> >use the web app
2021-02-01T06:34:56 < Laurenceb> >only loads in edge
2021-02-01T06:35:01 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
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2021-02-01T06:42:15 < R2COM> oh fuck i guess thats what happened
2021-02-01T06:42:32 < R2COM> i remember last thing i did before everything fucked up is set all pins of PORTA to input
2021-02-01T06:43:01 < R2COM> not sure if i can fix it now with BMP
2021-02-01T06:50:20 < jpa-> R2COM: on some devices bootloader disables the SWD pins to use them for something else
2021-02-01T06:50:42 < jpa-> try keeping BOOT0 low and also keeping NRST low until connected, or configure the debugging software to connect-under-reset
2021-02-01T06:51:45 < jpa-> on BMP that would be "connect_srst enable" "swdp_scan" (prefix with "monitor" if running through GDB)
2021-02-01T06:57:03 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used sky linux?
2021-02-01T06:57:16 < Laurenceb> I havent a clue what all the config options are
2021-02-01T06:57:34 < Laurenceb> I just have a skype for business (lync) meeting link I need to hit
2021-02-01T06:57:40 < Laurenceb> wtf how does this even work
2021-02-01T06:58:27 < R2COM> ok so here is what i did
2021-02-01T06:58:29 < R2COM> first of all
2021-02-01T06:58:40 < R2COM> that command: connect_srst enable doesnt work
2021-02-01T06:58:44 < R2COM> on that version of BMP
2021-02-01T06:58:51 < R2COM> it says Target does not support this command
2021-02-01T06:58:53 < R2COM> or something like that
2021-02-01T06:59:03 < R2COM> what i did now is, i found that i bought latest version BMP 2.1
2021-02-01T06:59:07 < R2COM> and added that one
2021-02-01T06:59:36 < R2COM> then i executed what you say, mon connect_srst enable
2021-02-01T06:59:38 < R2COM> but
2021-02-01T06:59:42 < R2COM> new problem now....
2021-02-01T06:59:54 < R2COM> after swdp_scan command, it does not identify device
2021-02-01T07:00:26 < R2COM> No. Att Driver
2021-02-01T07:00:26 < R2COM>  1      ARM Cortex-M M0
2021-02-01T07:00:26 < R2COM> warning: while parsing target memory map (at line 1): Required element <memory> is missing
2021-02-01T07:00:28 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-01T07:00:43 < R2COM> wtf is that one...
2021-02-01T07:00:51 < R2COM> so after that, as you see it managed to see that i have M0
2021-02-01T07:00:57 < R2COM> which is true... i got stm32f05
2021-02-01T07:01:10 < R2COM> but it didnt fully identify or connect to device, and the flash command failed
2021-02-01T07:01:29 < R2COM> then i found this fucking thread:
2021-02-01T07:01:30 < R2COM> https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/issues/307
2021-02-01T07:02:01 < R2COM> and gsmcmullin was wrioging: Ok, this is an STM32L0 for which we didn't split the probe/attach, so no surprises it didn't get fixed.
2021-02-01T07:02:01 < R2COM> The fact that we can't even read DBGMCU_IDCODE when in reset is a concern. That suggests that there is no way to identify this device while it's in reset.
2021-02-01T07:03:06 < R2COM> any idea?
2021-02-01T07:05:44 < Laurenceb> holy shit it works
2021-02-01T07:05:55 < Laurenceb> sky lunix is actually easier to use than slype too
2021-02-01T07:06:08 < Laurenceb> just need to find "meeting link" in obscure side menu
2021-02-01T07:06:54 < Laurenceb>  ""just"" the problem of 2 minute call limit, but fuck these bastards for using crazy software
2021-02-01T07:07:45 < Laurenceb> >when you go to jerb interviews and the hardest thing is working out wtf weirdo video chat software they are using
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2021-02-01T07:23:15 < aandrew> well, that is a bit of an ego boost. I can spit out about 400 lines of C and it compiles witohout even a warning. Whether it's correct or not is another matter
2021-02-01T07:43:45 < R2COM> ill upgrade BMP firmware tomorrow and retry
2021-02-01T07:43:59 < R2COM> seen similar posts online where people said they upgraded firmware and similar problem was gone
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2021-02-01T09:10:42 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-01T09:10:53 < R2COM> i fucking found old st-link device and made connection with that
2021-02-01T09:10:56 < R2COM> and did full chip erase
2021-02-01T09:11:11 < R2COM> it was success and blank check showed blank device
2021-02-01T09:11:28 < R2COM> now im getting back to my old original BMP probe and still cant connect to remote targed
2021-02-01T09:12:07 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-01T09:12:08 < R2COM> now
2021-02-01T09:12:10 < R2COM> fucking SUCCESS
2021-02-01T09:12:23 < R2COM> (forgot to bring BOOT0 back to low)
2021-02-01T09:12:40 < R2COM> let me just test with BMP 2.1 (new version of hardware probe)
2021-02-01T09:14:19 < R2COM> also works OK
2021-02-01T09:16:16 < R2COM> sooooo.... long story short: i somehow configured PORTA to input (including pins 13 & 14) and old BMP couldnt talk to device anymore, i tried connect under reset, but that probe did not support it. I then changed probe to new BMP 2.1, that one did have connect under reset, however; for some reason it couldnt flash data anyway. then i brought my old st-link/v2, connected it with SWD connection, 
2021-02-01T09:16:16 < R2COM> and using ST-link utiliuty full erased chip. then brough back BMP (both old and new) and now they work
2021-02-01T09:16:53 < R2COM> one thing which wasnt clear is how the fuck the i couldnt reanimate this shit with BMP and had to use st-link
2021-02-01T09:16:57 < R2COM> but anyway...works OK now.
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2021-02-01T12:01:50 < zyp> karlp, the pymodbus stuff you pastebinned last I asked expired, was gonna look at that now
2021-02-01T12:04:07 < karlp> oh, sorry.
2021-02-01T12:04:10 < karlp> what was it again?
2021-02-01T12:04:13 < zyp> am I understanding stuff right that a slave context is responsible for handling requests to a particular device, and a server context is responsible for dispatching requests to one out of a list of slave contexts, based on address/unit id?
2021-02-01T12:04:22 < karlp> yeah, sounds about right.
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2021-02-01T12:04:31 < karlp> not all examples make the distinction,
2021-02-01T12:04:52 < karlp> t least some of my stuff was using pymodbus to simulate multiple devices based on unitid, so I used multiple slave contexts
2021-02-01T12:05:05 < karlp> I was sharing my "modbus device fakes" or soemthing?
2021-02-01T12:05:11 < zyp> I think so
2021-02-01T12:06:17 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/92b156a2 probably?
2021-02-01T12:08:11 < zyp> hmm, maybe
2021-02-01T12:08:25 < zyp> IIRC it was some stuff with handler callbacks
2021-02-01T12:08:44 < karlp> yeah, look at one of the individiual implmentations
2021-02-01T12:08:52 < karlp> they override the getValues to re-generate values
2021-02-01T12:09:15 < karlp> like line 611 for instance.
2021-02-01T12:09:32 < karlp> you got the whole file splatted, I may have selected a simpler example for you last time?
2021-02-01T12:10:29 < zyp> might be, I thought you had something with one callback for each register
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2021-02-01T12:10:59 < karlp> hrm, doesn't sound like anything in pymodbus?
2021-02-01T12:11:21 < zyp> might have mixed that up in my head :)
2021-02-01T12:11:41 < karlp> that would be pretty gross to work with anyway....
2021-02-01T12:11:52 < karlp> as values can span registers, or be otherwise related.
2021-02-01T12:15:16 < zyp> I was just thinking that particularly for read only registers I might want to generate it dynamically rather than storing it somewhere
2021-02-01T12:15:52 < zyp> I mean, I'm kinda thinking of this in the same manner as HTTP REST GET/POST
2021-02-01T12:16:25 < karlp> yeah, I do that already.
2021-02-01T12:16:43 < karlp> I mean, I don't bother explicitly making them readonly,
2021-02-01T12:16:50 < karlp> you'd have to overwrite other stuff for that,
2021-02-01T12:17:42 < zyp> how would you act on writes?
2021-02-01T12:17:54 < karlp> you get setValues() instead of getValues() iirc.
2021-02-01T12:18:03 < karlp> I have that somewhere else, let me look
2021-02-01T12:19:25 < karlp> something like https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qXtu6 maybe
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2021-02-01T12:20:15 < zyp> ah
2021-02-01T12:21:03 < karlp> haven't needed writes much, I mostly use this to fake things, and most devices I'm workingwith don't have a lot of writable regs anyway
2021-02-01T12:21:47 < zyp> I need to implement a server that other clients are going to talk to, to trigger actions
2021-02-01T12:26:37 < zyp> I guess technically I don't need to override reads, I can just hook writes and use those to update the datastore
2021-02-01T12:28:21 < karlp> yeah, I just override reads to a) generate fake values for next read, and b) some stats
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2021-02-01T13:14:14 < jpa-> hmm, latest batch of pcbs from jlcpcb has much worse alignment than i'm used to
2021-02-01T13:14:27 < jpa-> both silkscreen & milling seem to be off 0.1-0.2mm
2021-02-01T13:14:46 < zyp> 2L?
2021-02-01T13:17:19 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-01T13:18:00 < jpa-> the couple 4L boards seem better
2021-02-01T13:21:11 < jpa-> but fortunately due to overconfidence i again have dozens of boards with prototype-level bugs, so i can just pick the ones with better alignment
2021-02-01T13:21:35 < zyp> heh
2021-02-01T13:28:23 < qyx> so, any idea why my stop1 is not forking? (L4)
2021-02-01T13:28:26 < qyx> *working
2021-02-01T13:29:04 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/uh6sE
2021-02-01T13:29:35 < zyp> how is it not working?
2021-02-01T13:29:38 < qyx> it works, I am not able to connect with SWD anymore
2021-02-01T13:29:47 < qyx> but it consumes 1.29 mA
2021-02-01T13:30:07 < qyx> thats only a bit less than with wfi alone
2021-02-01T13:30:23 < qyx> (booting into system bootloader consumes ~11 mA)
2021-02-01T13:31:01 < zyp> how are the RCC_*LPENR configured?
2021-02-01T13:31:14 < qyx> I didn't touch them, wait
2021-02-01T13:31:27 < zyp> I'm not sure whether they default to on or off
2021-02-01T13:31:52 < zyp> but I figure if you don't turn off any peripherals in stop mode, you wouldn't see much difference from plain wfi
2021-02-01T13:31:55 < qyx> I am also keeping the 4 MHz MSI on, not switching to LSI
2021-02-01T13:32:06 < qyx> so do I have to turn them off?
2021-02-01T13:32:21 < zyp> that's what *LPENR decides
2021-02-01T13:32:22 < qyx> I had the impression stop mode just globally stops clocks
2021-02-01T13:32:25 < zyp> or was it *SMENR
2021-02-01T13:32:28 < zyp> idk
2021-02-01T13:32:36 < qyx> ok maybe I failed at reading, checking
2021-02-01T13:32:40 < zyp> yeah, but which clocks?
2021-02-01T13:33:20 < qyx> the right ones!
2021-02-01T13:33:31 < zyp> and where do you configure which those are? :)
2021-02-01T13:34:08 < qyx> apparently all default to 1
2021-02-01T13:34:11 < qyx> so running in stop mode
2021-02-01T13:34:29 < zyp> great, that supports my theory :)
2021-02-01T13:34:40 < qyx> *SMENR
2021-02-01T13:34:49 < qyx> so starting with 2.89 mA with wfi
2021-02-01T13:38:34 < qyx> basically I can turn off everything except lptim1
2021-02-01T13:38:39 < qyx> I hope
2021-02-01T13:40:36 < qyx> 1.78 mA now
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2021-02-01T13:44:22 < qyx> This register only configures the clock gating, not the clock source itself. Most of the peripherals are clocked by a single
2021-02-01T13:44:25 < qyx> clock (AHB or APB clock), which is always disabled in Stop mode. In this case setting the bit has no effect in Stop mode.
2021-02-01T13:44:28 < qyx> zyp: ^
2021-02-01T13:55:12 < karlp> oh, groovy, machx02 is in yosys now all the way
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2021-02-01T14:28:05 < qyx> no peli cases today, peli distributor positive :S
2021-02-01T14:28:47 < zyp> heh
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2021-02-01T14:34:08 < englishman> heh.
2021-02-01T14:34:36 < englishman> spent $1k on peli cases here last week because a nano ohmmeter got smashed in transport
2021-02-01T14:34:52 < englishman> shipping Dept. put it in a cardboard box with some foam bits around
2021-02-01T14:34:54 < englishman> thanks guys
2021-02-01T14:35:20 < qyx> I am putting lora accels inside
2021-02-01T14:35:56 -!- gnom [~aleksande@178.150.7.153] has quit [Client Quit]
2021-02-01T14:36:03 < englishman> for tracking?
2021-02-01T14:36:05 -!- gnom [~aleksande@178.150.7.153] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-01T14:36:28 < englishman> going to integrate position with those accels so you don't need gps?
2021-02-01T14:37:26 < jpa-> it's to keep track of score in the shipping department football game
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2021-02-01T15:31:20 < qyx> no, accels are the products, pelis are only for carrying them
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2021-02-01T15:53:11 < Ecco> Heya :)
2021-02-01T15:53:19 < Ecco> I'm running into a problem similar to this one: https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009Xkh9U/issue-with-usb-disconnect-event-detection-in-stm32f407
2021-02-01T15:54:02 < Ecco> Namely, if I use  a rather common ESD protection by ST, then USB VBus doesn't go back all the way to 0 even if the cable is disonnected
2021-02-01T15:54:23 < Ecco> I'm not sure the explanations given by that tsuneo guy are correct
2021-02-01T15:54:30 < Ecco> Do you guy have an opinion on the matter?
2021-02-01T15:54:33 < karlp> take it up with that fae that told you to do it the way you're doing? :)
2021-02-01T15:55:03 < Ecco> Oh, so, we're not doing it the way the FAE said we should
2021-02-01T15:55:22 < Ecco> but essentially his point was that our ESD protection wouldn't protect us from long-term overvoltage
2021-02-01T15:55:36 < Ecco> He might be right. But there that's an entirely different problem we have
2021-02-01T15:55:55 < Ecco> If we use USBLC6 (which I'm sure you guys know about, it's everywhere in ST's sample schematics)
2021-02-01T15:56:04 < Ecco> then Vbus doesn't go back all the way to 0…
2021-02-01T15:56:10 < karlp> hrm, might be true, I'm using usblc6 on a hub downstream port, not device side...
2021-02-01T15:57:02 < Ecco> ok! I'm pretty sure I've seen it used as a device in more that one ST sample schem tho
2021-02-01T15:57:12 < Ecco> Also, it seems like a pretty big problem
2021-02-01T15:57:54 < aandrew> Ecco: interesting - ST's official response is that USBLC6 is not an appropriate device-side TVS
2021-02-01T15:58:03 < Ecco> how "official"?
2021-02-01T15:58:04 < aandrew> and that you don't want protection on VBUS
2021-02-01T15:58:16 < aandrew> oh wait, that's not "ST Employee"
2021-02-01T15:59:49 < aandrew> don't know how popular his name is, but he's got a lot of academic shit associated with his name
2021-02-01T16:00:02 < Ecco> Also, I'm wondering about the D+ pull-up
2021-02-01T16:00:11 < Ecco> You're supposed to pull D+ to 3.0V
2021-02-01T16:00:17 < Ecco> What if the MCU runs at 2.8V?
2021-02-01T16:00:37 < aandrew> I'm sure there is a requirement in the USB spec that USB I/O be 3.3V
2021-02-01T16:00:51 < aandrew> run off whatever you want, if you're talking USB you gotta have at least two 3.3V I/O
2021-02-01T16:01:02 < Ecco> ok
2021-02-01T16:01:17 < Ecco> Do you think the STM32 has an embedded DC-DC for this?
2021-02-01T16:01:29 < Ecco> Because I haven't seen this requirement anywhere in the datasheet
2021-02-01T16:01:47 < aandrew> I think there is a document that ST publishes for every part... what's the name of it... it's on the tip of my tongue.  some kind of "sheet" with data about the part on it
2021-02-01T16:01:50 < aandrew> help me out
2021-02-01T16:01:59 < Ecco> :-D
2021-02-01T16:02:06 < Ecco> Well, it's also 1500 pages long
2021-02-01T16:02:13 < Ecco> and I've actually read (most of) it
2021-02-01T16:02:41 < aandrew> the DS isn't that long, the RM is but doesn't have pin parameters
2021-02-01T16:02:53 < Ecco> Yes, you're right
2021-02-01T16:03:05 < aandrew> you need the DS for this stuff, and the RM to figure out how to actually make use of the device. :-)
2021-02-01T16:03:13 < aandrew> I understand why they split it up but it's a pain
2021-02-01T16:04:51 < karlp> there'sa  footnote for f4, 5. The voltage range for OTG USB FS can drop down to 2.7 V. However it is degraded between 2.7 and 3 V.
2021-02-01T16:04:57 < karlp> (because I was curious)
2021-02-01T16:05:14 < Ecco> Yes, this is correct
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2021-02-01T16:05:17 < Ecco> I've read this too
2021-02-01T16:05:26 < Ecco> And they don't say what "degraded" means
2021-02-01T16:06:04 < Ecco> "The voltage range for USB full speed PHYs can drop down to 2.7 V. However the electrical characteristics of D- and D+ pins will be degraded between 2.7 and 3 V."
2021-02-01T16:06:36 < karlp> I'd take it to mean, "don't actyualy try without consulting ST"
2021-02-01T16:06:48 < Ecco> ok
2021-02-01T16:07:18 < jpa-> i'd take it to mean "it'll work but don't expect to pass usb certification"
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2021-02-01T16:08:31 < karlp> L4 for instance has separate vddusb, and says, 3..3.6 for USB in use, 0..3.6 for usb not used.
2021-02-01T16:09:41 < Ecco> Also, I wonder why they say "between 2.7 and 3V"
2021-02-01T16:09:48 < Ecco> because technically D+ should be pulled at 3.3
2021-02-01T16:09:55 < zyp> should it?
2021-02-01T16:09:57 < Ecco> so what happens at 3.1V?
2021-02-01T16:10:09 < zyp> isn't it something like 3.0-3.3?
2021-02-01T16:10:10 < Ecco> zyp: I don't know, it's what I've gotten from a quick Google search
2021-02-01T16:10:18 < zyp> why not check the actual usb spec?
2021-02-01T16:10:29 < aandrew> probably has to do with official Vih specs and cable parameters
2021-02-01T16:10:39 < Ecco> I should
2021-02-01T16:10:41 < zyp> actual spec should have tolerances
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2021-02-01T16:11:52 < zyp> Table 7-7 says Vterm = 3.0..3.6V
2021-02-01T16:12:20 < Ecco> Wow you were quick
2021-02-01T16:12:25 < zyp> Rpu = 1.425..1.575kOhm
2021-02-01T16:12:26 < Ecco> I still haven't found it!
2021-02-01T16:12:34 < Ecco> Cool, thanks
2021-02-01T16:24:10 -!- BrainDamage1 [~braindama@94-36-240-149.adsl-ull.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-01T17:13:44 < qyx> did I say lptim has no overflow flag?
2021-02-01T17:15:56 < zyp> it doesn't?
2021-02-01T17:19:51 < karlp> yay, linux onedrive client says, "ERROR: OneDrive account currently has zero space available. Please free up some space online"
2021-02-01T17:23:58 < BrainDamage1> if you don't mind the extra complexity, rclone is pretty good
2021-02-01T17:24:17 < qyx> Update Event Available only on STM32L41xxx and STM32L42xxx devices.
2021-02-01T17:26:56 < karlp> BrainDamage1: will try.
2021-02-01T17:27:06 < karlp> " onedrive" isn't filling me with confidence
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2021-02-01T17:38:50 < karlp> heh, was probably hitting https://github.com/rclone/rclone/commit/0906f8dd3ba9972717c0d1f36e5de515d31492fa#diff-58011b068267880753813f48ca4cfdfc64264c0b5700f507a220444f6e169f23 which probably means i need bleeding rclonet oo.
2021-02-01T17:38:52 < karlp> will try
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2021-02-01T18:18:12 < qyx> so do I need to configure an exti direct line or not?
2021-02-01T18:18:30 < qyx> from the rm it looks like I shoulnd't touch exti configuration
2021-02-01T18:18:43 < qyx> but lets tr
2021-02-01T18:25:37 < BrainDamage> karlp: latest stable has the fix
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2021-02-01T18:43:12 < karlp> yeah, doesn't seem to be a problemyet anyway, just need to figure out how to do partial shit
2021-02-01T18:43:17 < karlp> seems much faster at first call
2021-02-01T18:43:26 < karlp> and didn't require manually searching for drive ids
2021-02-01T18:43:48 < karlp> problem is I have a 50k+ sharepoint site with 10 years of piled up cruft, and I absolutely do not want to sync all of it.
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2021-02-01T19:00:33 < BrainDamage> you can mount partial paths
2021-02-01T19:00:51 < BrainDamage> you can also tell it to purge old backups
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2021-02-01T19:01:41 < Laurenceb> arg wtf
2021-02-01T19:01:53 < Laurenceb> is there a haxor way to get an office 365 account?
2021-02-01T19:05:12 < R2COM> refresh my memory...what other debug probe works nicely in command line gdb debugging? i mean, what minimum option from jlink?
2021-02-01T19:06:54 < karlp> other than?
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2021-02-01T19:16:45 < jpa-> what debug probe does not work nicely with gdb?
2021-02-01T19:17:37 < R2COM> i mean it works, but i noticed it lacks in some aspecs, i am using BMP now
2021-02-01T19:17:51 < R2COM> currentlyu using old version of BMP, but i got BMP 2.1 too
2021-02-01T19:17:53 < karlp> lacks?
2021-02-01T19:18:14 < R2COM> if you saw, yesterday, i locked out device by setting pa13,14 to input. and never could recover device using BMP
2021-02-01T19:18:22 < R2COM> had to use st-link to connect under reset and full erase chip
2021-02-01T19:18:40 < R2COM> so i see 2 functions didnt work for me for BMP: 1) connect under reset and then be able to flash 2) full chip erase
2021-02-01T19:18:41 < karlp> so, just use your stlink?
2021-02-01T19:19:05 < karlp> BrainDamage: strugglign to get --filter-from to work :) but it does appear more competent at least.
2021-02-01T19:20:32 < R2COM> after i "reanimated" the device with st-link im again using gdb+BMP as usual
2021-02-01T19:20:40 < R2COM> gdb console debugging works nicely for me i like it
2021-02-01T19:20:58 < R2COM> i just would like a more robust reliable probe which properly implements all features
2021-02-01T19:22:19 < jpa-> i'm mostly stuck with stlink+openocd also, seems every time i try to use BMP i run into some weird bugs with specific devices
2021-02-01T19:23:06 < R2COM> you debug from command line?
2021-02-01T19:23:37 < R2COM> i dont expect much from BMP, but for a $60 fucking dongle you'd expect two above functions to work nicely
2021-02-01T19:24:03 < R2COM> so which JLINK should i buy so i can debug with gdb in command line mode and have all above features working?
2021-02-01T19:24:25 < karlp> what's wrong with just stlink?
2021-02-01T19:24:48 < jpa-> R2COM: yes, gdb as usual, works fine with stlink+openocd
2021-02-01T19:24:58 < jpa-> it is not the fastest thing in the world, but good enough
2021-02-01T19:25:32 < R2COM> why not use jlink?
2021-02-01T19:25:44 < jpa-> because stlink is for cheap people like me
2021-02-01T19:26:05 < karlp> stlink is on every dev board I have, why would i buy another one?
2021-02-01T19:26:30 < karlp> I have a couple of dev boards withjlink-ob, use jlink on them, openocd makes thema ll look the same anyway, gdb works just fine with openocd
2021-02-01T19:28:08 < R2COM> so JLINK BASE can do debugging via gdb command line mode?
2021-02-01T19:28:13 < R2COM> $378 jeez
2021-02-01T19:28:15 < R2COM> for a fucking probe
2021-02-01T19:28:20 < R2COM> with 1 IC inside
2021-02-01T19:28:31 < karlp> you want to spend money, sure, go buy a jlink....
2021-02-01T19:28:34 < aandrew> J-Link EDU is like $40
2021-02-01T19:28:48 < R2COM> i dont like chinese, but sometimes i feel that they are doing good job smacking those eurofags giving retarded prices for simple shit
2021-02-01T19:28:55 < R2COM> but EDU has some limits no
2021-02-01T19:29:04 < karlp> you're paying ofr the software, not the hardware
2021-02-01T19:29:20 < R2COM> plus its for educational purpose
2021-02-01T19:29:29 < aandrew> I've never had great success with stlink and debugging. never could figure out if it was my oocd or the hardware. oocd with jlink seemed to be fine, and same with genuine bmp so I suspect it's the stlink hardware
2021-02-01T19:29:34 < R2COM> im not a schoolboy anymore, so i cant lie
2021-02-01T19:29:36 < karlp> fucking finally.
2021-02-01T19:29:45 < aandrew> R2COM: you're learning, aren't you?
2021-02-01T19:29:47 < karlp> filter lists must use \ escaping for spaces, can't use ""
2021-02-01T19:30:11 < R2COM> if you use edu for something you got payed for you lied and can be sued
2021-02-01T19:30:14 < R2COM> theoretically...
2021-02-01T19:30:45 < R2COM> aandrew, wait, so jlink will require ocd too or what
2021-02-01T19:30:56 < R2COM> for BMP that server runs inside it 
2021-02-01T19:32:29 < aandrew> jlink does not need it, but there is a jlink ("jaylink") driver for oocd if you don't want to change your workflow
2021-02-01T19:32:55 < aandrew> bmp doesn't need oocd, you can just use gdb directly
2021-02-01T19:33:14 < karlp> jlink has a Jlinkgdbserver.exe instead of oocd if  you like using their sw
2021-02-01T19:33:17 < aandrew> I kind of wish ozone would allow generic gdb target hardware but understand why they don't
2021-02-01T19:33:24 < aandrew> I haven't found a better gui debugger
2021-02-01T19:33:24 < jpa-> R2COM: can't you use the "flash jlink on stlink" thingy if you really need jlink?
2021-02-01T19:33:39 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/j-link.html
2021-02-01T19:33:54 < aandrew> jpa-: r2com is concerned about legalities so he wouldn't do that becuase it's only legit for use on stm32discovery type boards (i.e. not for debugging custom stuff)
2021-02-01T19:34:16 < karlp> ok, filters filter, but can't get it to sync one way without deleting things...
2021-02-01T19:34:23 < jpa-> aandrew: oh, is there such a rule?
2021-02-01T19:34:25 < aandrew> all my onboard stlinks are jlink with the exception of my stlinkv3 and the embedded v3 on my h757 dev board
2021-02-01T19:34:26 < karlp> it's ilght years faster than the onedrive thing
2021-02-01T19:35:28 < jpa-> aandrew: ah, looks like there is indeed
2021-02-01T19:35:54 < R2COM> so is there some solution which will run gdb server on "itself" like BMP?
2021-02-01T19:36:05 < jpa-> no, BMP is pretty much unique in that aspect
2021-02-01T19:36:21 < aandrew> yep
2021-02-01T19:36:27 < aandrew> and if you guys haven't tried orbuculum you're missing out
2021-02-01T19:36:28 < aandrew> I love it
2021-02-01T19:36:39 < R2COM> for regular flow yes, but for some circumstances where you need connect under reset or full chip erase work...it choked
2021-02-01T19:36:44 < karlp> that has nothign to do with bmp though aandrew :)
2021-02-01T19:40:58 < jpa-> at least until i bother making a BMP version with on-board FPGA for high speed trace capture ;)
2021-02-01T19:41:39 < zyp> jpa-, I've had that idea too
2021-02-01T19:41:54 < karlp> so have they....
2021-02-01T19:41:58 < zyp> :)
2021-02-01T19:42:03 < jpa-> :)
2021-02-01T19:42:08 < jpa-> i'm waiting for it to appear
2021-02-01T19:44:10 < qyx> something is eating my energy
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2021-02-01T19:45:39 < R2COM> is BMP source open source?
2021-02-01T19:46:56 < zyp> yes
2021-02-01T19:47:07 < zyp> https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/
2021-02-01T19:49:30 < R2COM> so... JLINK requires OpenOCD in order to be able to debug via gdb command line?
2021-02-01T19:49:32 < R2COM> or?
2021-02-01T19:49:38 < zyp> no
2021-02-01T19:50:06 < zyp> I have this shit running here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/zNq7k.png :p
2021-02-01T19:50:44 < R2COM> ah right
2021-02-01T19:50:45 < R2COM> so
2021-02-01T19:50:52 < R2COM> in otehr words, JLINK require running GDB server
2021-02-01T19:50:56 < R2COM> which is that app you showed
2021-02-01T19:50:59 < R2COM> its free app?
2021-02-01T19:51:09 < R2COM> or they charge for that too
2021-02-01T19:51:10 < R2COM> lets see
2021-02-01T19:51:48 < zyp> free if you've got a jlink
2021-02-01T19:52:07 < R2COM> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/tools/j-link-gdb-server/about-j-link-gdb-server/
2021-02-01T19:52:32 < R2COM> so you run that server, and then get back to console and debug in gdb with jlink?
2021-02-01T19:52:39 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-01T19:52:43 < R2COM> gdb from console connecst to server etc
2021-02-01T19:52:45 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-01T19:53:11 < zyp> I'm only using this because I ran out of patience trying to get openocd and gd32v to play nicely
2021-02-01T19:53:33 < R2COM> ok in that case my solution cost is: $378 for JLink BASE
2021-02-01T19:53:36 < aandrew> karlp: your'e right that has nothing to do with bmp
2021-02-01T19:54:19 < R2COM> damn jewkillers charge so much for simple stupid probe
2021-02-01T19:54:22 < R2COM> because thats what it is
2021-02-01T19:54:42 < aandrew> R2COM: yes, jlink needs JLinkGDBServer running to use gdb
2021-02-01T19:55:57 < R2COM> alright
2021-02-01T19:56:08 < R2COM> i gotta think about it...cuz... honestly BMP works OK for regular shit
2021-02-01T19:56:21 < R2COM> and for "emergency" i got my st-link nearby to erase/reset devices...
2021-02-01T19:56:23 < R2COM> sooo...
2021-02-01T19:56:34 < R2COM> not sure if i now need to burn $378
2021-02-01T19:56:57 < R2COM> by chance, anyone knows of some other solution of probe for reasonable price which offers GDB server too?
2021-02-01T19:58:20 < jpa-> openocd on raspberry pi? :)
2021-02-01T19:58:43 < R2COM> nah, those words dont sound reliable to me
2021-02-01T19:59:04 < qyx> openocd with ft232h?
2021-02-01T19:59:41 < jpa-> isn't ft232h kind of slow with swd? haven't tried myself
2021-02-01T19:59:46 < karlp> the -h bit is important
2021-02-01T19:59:55 < karlp> they do make a single port -h, it's not real common though
2021-02-01T20:00:08 < karlp> things like tumpa and glasgow and busblaster all use the 2232h
2021-02-01T20:00:08 < R2COM> whats this
2021-02-01T20:00:10 < R2COM> http://www.pemicro.com/products/product_viewDetails.cfm?product_id=15320168&productTab=1
2021-02-01T20:00:22 < karlp> what, you want to spend more? :)
2021-02-01T20:00:31 < karlp> sure, p&e will happily take it from your
2021-02-01T20:00:42 < karlp> you can go to lauterbach to, if you just want to spend
2021-02-01T20:01:17 < karlp> having a bit of a hard time what this realyl is about though, other than waving your dick around that youy've got money to spend on nothing 
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2021-02-01T20:01:46 < jpa-> i would expect one to run into gdb version issues in any case - at least that has been my most common issue that if i upgrade gdb, i may need to upgrade BMP or openocd also
2021-02-01T20:02:05 < jpa-> might be even crappier if it is some closed source thing where you can't get a new version
2021-02-01T20:02:34 < karlp> hrm,I've nt had gdb version problems for years now 
2021-02-01T20:02:34 < jpa-> gdb people haven't been very diligent about keeping compatibility with the remote protocol
2021-02-01T20:03:13 < jpa-> true, i haven't had them for years either.. though that might be because i'm apparently still using 2018Q4 :D
2021-02-01T20:05:16 < qyx> found 1.5 mA, qspi flash
2021-02-01T20:05:49 < qyx> I am curious why a pin configured in default (input with pullup) is at 0 V
2021-02-01T20:06:13 < qyx> setting to output and forcing to L sleeps the flash
2021-02-01T20:06:30 < qyx> 500 uA now
2021-02-01T20:06:37 < zyp> I generally only upgrade my BMP when I want to play with a new part that my previous firmware didn't support
2021-02-01T20:06:50 < zyp> never really had gdb protocol version issues
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2021-02-01T20:08:46 < R2COM> i just don't think there will be anyone in dev team of BMP looking into the issues i described
2021-02-01T20:08:55 < R2COM> project is out, source is out too so
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2021-02-01T20:09:04 < R2COM> i still like BMP for the regular flow
2021-02-01T20:09:29 < jpa-> you could post a bug bounty of $378 on that bug? :)
2021-02-01T20:09:59 < R2COM> btw... so the source shown above for BMP, that means if its burned on any stm32 device it will turn it into BMP literally yea? if hardware schematics same of course
2021-02-01T20:10:11 < zyp> yes
2021-02-01T20:10:27 < karlp> you could read the page you were linked... :)
2021-02-01T20:10:35 < karlp> that says hwo to run it on fucking blue pill shit even
2021-02-01T20:10:39 < R2COM> jpa- i'd post $1, together with maybe hundreds of others who had that bug (and i pretty sure people had that bug, cuz yesterday i browsed shitloads of forums talking about same thing)
2021-02-01T20:11:12 < R2COM> whoever is way deep into it might solved it for himself already and moved on and not interested in sharing
2021-02-01T20:11:24 < jpa-> but most won't post even $1, you can compensate with your mighty american wealth
2021-02-01T20:12:01 < R2COM> my mighty american wealth will go down with new gov since i will have to feed millions of refugees from somalia, sorry
2021-02-01T20:13:21 < zyp> shame
2021-02-01T20:13:31 < BrainDamage> even if that was true, it'd only set you back by ~1k/year
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2021-02-01T20:46:04 < englishman> p sure the mighty american wealth has already devalued itself by 20% or so after the last few months of unlimited QE
2021-02-01T20:52:14 < zyp> hmm, I wonder how expensive C++ exceptions really are
2021-02-01T20:52:58 < zyp> they seem increasingly useful when combined with coroutines
2021-02-01T20:54:23 < BrainDamage> if you're not using threads they shouldn't in principle be more costly than a function call + stack / heap deallocation
2021-02-01T20:54:53 < BrainDamage> since the compiler can resolve at build time what catches it
2021-02-01T20:55:33 < zyp> even through indirect calls?
2021-02-01T20:58:15 < BrainDamage> you mean through an external lib? then I'm not sure
2021-02-01T20:58:52 < BrainDamage> because in that case the compiler wouldn't know, but I guess you could still build a call tree for the linker to see
2021-02-01T21:02:27 < BrainDamage> wrap the function with a callback to handle the exception path, and the code would sink it to a proper handler or a stub if uncaught
2021-02-01T21:02:30 < zyp> doesn't look like it even tries to omit anything: https://godbolt.org/z/z5aKdE
2021-02-01T21:11:15 < qyx> itm/etm is kept powered after flashing?
2021-02-01T21:11:43 < qyx> I have something draining 200 uA when I flah the board
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2021-02-01T22:30:07 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-01T22:30:34 < zyp> a simple executable that throws an exception ends up being around 7k
2021-02-01T22:31:20 < zyp> commenting out the throw only saves me 2k
2021-02-01T22:32:28 < zyp> not sure why it's not getting garbage collected
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2021-02-01T22:38:28 < iobus> hello world, anyone used those cheap 433RF ASK modules with STM32 without Arduino?
2021-02-01T22:40:08 < R2COM> no, for such project we use stm32 only together with arduino
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2021-02-01T22:52:24 < mawk> probably iobus , ask your question
2021-02-01T22:52:41 < mawk> even if people haven't used it chances are they will know how to answer
2021-02-01T22:54:09 < iobus> @mawk I just wanna know what library they used, I only need the RX part, something compatible with RadioHead of Arduino for example
2021-02-01T22:54:37 < mawk> when playing with 868MHz FSK transmitter I made my own library
2021-02-01T22:54:41 < mawk> you don't need other people's code
2021-02-01T22:54:45 < mawk> it's simple enough
2021-02-01T22:54:55 < mawk> and there are as many setup codes as there are different transmitters anyway
2021-02-01T22:55:03 < mawk> so just read datasheet and implement yourself
2021-02-01T22:55:05 < mawk> it's not that hard
2021-02-01T22:56:47 < mawk> what receiver is it iobus 
2021-02-01T22:58:02 < iobus> MX-RM-5V for RX and FS100A for TX, it's an 315MHz ASK OOK
2021-02-01T22:58:13 < mawk> you said 433
2021-02-01T22:58:53 < iobus> they are the same hardware, only frequency changes
2021-02-01T23:00:07 < mawk> why are you using these things though
2021-02-01T23:00:33 < iobus> i only need it for a class about USB for a lab assignment, trying to make a small concept about wireless keyboard 
2021-02-01T23:00:44 < mawk> it doesn't support auto preamble, postamble, synchronization word, packet delimitation, retransmission, anything
2021-02-01T23:00:51 < iobus> if i don't find a solution soon i have to use NRF24 or ESP-NOW
2021-02-01T23:00:51 < mawk> yeah well maybe use something else
2021-02-01T23:01:00 < mawk> use nRF24L01+
2021-02-01T23:01:04 < mawk> that's what I'd use
2021-02-01T23:01:12 < mawk> and that's what real life RF keyboard manufacturers use
2021-02-01T23:01:15 < mawk> among others
2021-02-01T23:02:23 < iobus> may you recommend a non-arduino library to use with ST's F103 HAL?
2021-02-01T23:02:36 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/WayinTop-NRF24L01-R%C3%A9cepteur-Adaptateur-R%C3%A9gulateur/dp/B07P95X6HM/
2021-02-01T23:02:43 < mawk> to use for what?
2021-02-01T23:02:45 < mawk> the nRF24L01+?
2021-02-01T23:02:52 < mawk> I made my own
2021-02-01T23:02:59 < mawk> I don't trust other people's code in the "make:r space"
2021-02-01T23:03:03 < mawk> and it's very simple anyway
2021-02-01T23:03:20 < iobus> oh okay! thanks
2021-02-01T23:04:03 < mawk> don't use the one from my link
2021-02-01T23:04:05 < mawk> it has a weird adapter board
2021-02-01T23:04:09 < iobus> Yes I have the same module in my "electronics box"
2021-02-01T23:04:11 < mawk> but get one with a big antenna like this
2021-02-01T23:04:17 < mawk> otherwise the pcb might be shitty
2021-02-01T23:04:23 < mawk> just try it andsee
2021-02-01T23:04:42 < iobus> "NRF24L01+PA+LNA"
2021-02-01T23:04:48 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-01T23:04:50 < mawk> good
2021-02-01T23:07:06 < PaulFertser> And there was an issue with fake modules implementing auto-ack differently.
2021-02-01T23:07:11 < PaulFertser> Fake chips.
2021-02-01T23:08:31 < PaulFertser> So when using auto-ack one should not mix originals and fakes.
2021-02-01T23:08:36 < PaulFertser> iirc
2021-02-01T23:11:53 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/Electronique-Ensemble-Temp%C3%A9rature-R%C3%A9glable-Affichage/dp/B08BBY1YWC/ lol
2021-02-01T23:11:57 < mawk> lenovo counterfeit
2021-02-01T23:12:00 < mawk> LONOVE
2021-02-01T23:12:04 < mawk> and they say LENOVO in the title
2021-02-01T23:17:36 < qyx> 111 uA, freertos tickless with lptim on L4 \o/
2021-02-01T23:17:45 < qyx> I'll try to go even lower
2021-02-01T23:17:55 < qyx> the only drawback is serial console doesn't work :(
2021-02-01T23:21:25 < mawk> why though?
2021-02-01T23:21:44 < mawk> tickless stuff is nice
2021-02-01T23:22:14 < qyx> probably usart rx interrupt no worky in stop 1
2021-02-01T23:22:18 < qyx> but it should
2021-02-01T23:23:10 < Steffanx> not using lpuart?
2021-02-01T23:25:37 < qyx> no because I am dumb
2021-02-01T23:25:43 < qyx> no lpuart on PA9/PA10
2021-02-01T23:25:46 < Steffanx> awh, too bad
2021-02-01T23:25:52 < qyx> but it should work
2021-02-01T23:25:57 < qyx> it should be able to detect start bit
2021-02-01T23:26:08 < qyx> maybe 115200 is too much to wake up from stop 1
2021-02-01T23:26:31 < antto> "Couleur" is that how you spell "color" in .fr?
2021-02-01T23:26:59 < Steffanx> oui oui
2021-02-01T23:27:32 < Steffanx> How to say it in .bg, mr antto ?
2021-02-01T23:27:44 < antto> цвят
2021-02-01T23:27:47 < Steffanx> .tiff ?
2021-02-01T23:28:15 < mawk> yes antto 
2021-02-01T23:28:24 < antto> my condolesence, mawk
2021-02-01T23:28:40 < mawk> why
2021-02-01T23:28:56 < antto> .fr has soooo many extra letters for decorative purposes
2021-02-01T23:28:56 < mawk> cvyat ?
2021-02-01T23:29:01 < Steffanx> he secretly loves french.
2021-02-01T23:29:03 < mawk> maybe
2021-02-01T23:29:13 < mawk> but not in couleur
2021-02-01T23:29:18 < mawk> k ou l eu r
2021-02-01T23:29:24 < mawk> they all have their purpose
2021-02-01T23:29:39 < Steffanx> antto, you shuold go dutch. We remove the ou and turned into "kleur" .
2021-02-01T23:32:05 < antto> in .bg, afaik there is this one word that has FOUR consecutive vowels.. ain't no other word like it
2021-02-01T23:32:22 < antto> it's фоаие, and afaik it comes from .fr
2021-02-01T23:32:24 < antto> >:)
2021-02-01T23:32:46 < mawk> foyer ?
2021-02-01T23:32:50 < mawk> home
2021-02-01T23:32:57 < mawk> household
2021-02-01T23:33:00 < mawk> that antto ?
2021-02-01T23:33:08 < antto> nah, afaik it means  like a lobby place maybe
2021-02-01T23:33:16 < mawk> chimney then ?
2021-02-01T23:33:32 < antto> no, i'd think it is pronounced that way-ish in .fr
2021-02-01T23:33:36 < mawk> of course it means foyer you lier
2021-02-01T23:33:38 < mawk> https://translate.google.fr/?sl=bg&tl=fr&text=%D1%84%D0%BE%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%B5&op=translate
2021-02-01T23:33:40 < mawk> I was right
2021-02-01T23:34:21 < Steffanx> i beat you antto . Dutch has a word with 6. (a real world, there are made up words with more)
2021-02-01T23:34:24 < Steffanx> *word
2021-02-01T23:34:35 < mawk> what is it
2021-02-01T23:34:38 < Steffanx> zaaiuien 
2021-02-01T23:34:58 < mawk> zaai onions?
2021-02-01T23:35:08 < antto> DAFUCHT?
2021-02-01T23:35:16 < Steffanx> yes, mawk 
2021-02-01T23:35:19 < mawk> what is zaai
2021-02-01T23:35:30 < Steffanx> sowing 
2021-02-01T23:35:35 < mawk> what is sowing
2021-02-01T23:36:02 < antto> DIY clothing
2021-02-01T23:36:11 < Steffanx> putting the onions in the ground to grow more mawk .
2021-02-01T23:36:19 < antto> oh
2021-02-01T23:36:31 < Steffanx> Does not strictly apply to unions ofcourse but .. ;)
2021-02-01T23:36:40 < mawk> ah
2021-02-01T23:37:36 < antto> wuddayaknow, it's фоайе
2021-02-01T23:37:45 < antto> in english it does mean lobby
2021-02-01T23:37:59 < effractur>  /win 157
2021-02-01T23:38:08 < antto> Invalid window
2021-02-01T23:38:49 < antto> and in french it translates to "hall" o_O
2021-02-01T23:38:56 < antto> wtf, is g00gle trolling me?!
2021-02-01T23:40:02 < mawk> without the accent it's translated to foyer antto 
2021-02-01T23:40:07 < mawk> which is the word it's coming from
2021-02-01T23:40:14 < mawk> just ask google to say "foyer" out loud for you
2021-02-01T23:40:20 < mawk> it's exactly фоайе
2021-02-01T23:40:34 < antto> so thank you, .fr, for contributing one of possibly the weirdest words in .bg
2021-02-01T23:40:35 < mawk> meaning shifted a bit when translated probably
2021-02-01T23:40:42 < mawk> in french it means household
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2021-02-01T23:56:59 < zyp> Steffanx, pretty easy when you've got a language that does compound words
--- Day changed Tue Feb 02 2021
2021-02-02T00:00:12 < Steffanx> Maybe zyp
2021-02-02T00:00:26 < Steffanx> There used to be one with more, but it got changed in 1996
2021-02-02T00:02:05 < zyp> I mean, where do you draw the limit for what's a real word?
2021-02-02T00:03:38 < Steffanx>  Not sure. I guess words that are official recognized and... make sense
2021-02-02T00:03:46 < antto> when the word becomes longer than an Eminem song
2021-02-02T00:04:36 < zyp> I mean, you're probably not gonna find «saueeier» in a dictionary, but it means «sheep owner» and makes total sense
2021-02-02T00:06:55 < Steffanx> Then its unofficially recognised 😛
2021-02-02T00:10:46 < Steffanx> Anyway, it is indeed easy in dutch to make compound words, but they do have to make sense. Or be a real thing..
2021-02-02T00:11:16 < Steffanx> But idk who or what draws the line
2021-02-02T00:11:47 < Steffanx> Borsjtsjschranser :)
2021-02-02T00:13:13 < antto> wat o_O
2021-02-02T00:14:19 < antto> and when you think about some people who know like 10 languages.. or more x_x
2021-02-02T00:16:06 < Steffanx> Apparently "Borsjtsj" is "Borscht" in english and thats apparently some russian beet soup
2021-02-02T00:16:51 < Steffanx> Hah, its not that we actually use this word. Like ever, antto 
2021-02-02T00:17:04 < qyx> boršč
2021-02-02T00:17:12 < antto> bosch
2021-02-02T00:17:22 < antto> <close_enough.jpg>
2021-02-02T00:17:22 < qyx> you need too many letters to say such easy word
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2021-02-02T00:23:37 < mawk> what is schranser
2021-02-02T00:23:42 < mawk> sounds german
2021-02-02T00:23:46 < mawk> are you german Steffanx today?
2021-02-02T00:24:23 < antto> "today" o_O
2021-02-02T00:24:34 < mawk> better than tomorrow
2021-02-02T00:25:09 -!- Amun_Ra [~amun-ra@retro.rocks] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-02T00:25:17 < antto> does he dynamic_cast<> himself all the time?
2021-02-02T00:28:26 < Steffanx> I dont know what the english translation is mawk. But its like eating.. stuffing. Mainly without shame.
2021-02-02T00:29:17 < Steffanx> Guzzing?
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2021-02-02T00:31:17 -!- Amun_Ra [~amun-ra@retro.rocks] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-02T00:32:01 < Steffanx> Welcome night crew member kakium69 
2021-02-02T00:32:13 < Steffanx> Got the beats?
2021-02-02T00:32:26 < kakium69> hello evening steff
2021-02-02T00:32:47 < karlp> got the dope hook beatz yah
2021-02-02T00:35:27 < karlp> qyx: your 111uA, what is it doing at that point?
2021-02-02T00:35:28 < Steffanx> I almost wrote beads, but not sure if kakium69 is into that
2021-02-02T00:38:25 < kakium69> https://soundcloud.com/djlucidlou/lucidlou-when-i-saw-you-time-stood-still
2021-02-02T00:39:06 < antto> i haz some beatz too
2021-02-02T00:39:15 < karlp> does the channel have a favourite push/push sim card cage? 
2021-02-02T00:39:31 < karlp> any size really, but probably full size for usability of a push/push slot one.
2021-02-02T00:41:17 < qyx> karlp: running my freertos framework, basically nothing, CLI + empty message queue
2021-02-02T00:41:38 < qyx> the important part is that applications need not to be aware of any low powerity
2021-02-02T00:42:06 < karlp> hrm.  I've got a project soon to work out how low I can go with the adc still running....
2021-02-02T00:42:11 < qyx> I revived the thing after maybe 4 years to see if it is actually usable
2021-02-02T00:42:42 < qyx> I have new lora accel pcbs here, my goal is continuous sampling
2021-02-02T00:42:55 < qyx> on a single AA lisocl2
2021-02-02T00:44:49 < kakium69> https://soundcloud.com/djlucidlou/had-to-disappear
2021-02-02T00:48:07 < kakium69> yeah soundcloud kinda rules
2021-02-02T00:48:26 < antto> it kinda sux
2021-02-02T00:48:31 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-02T00:48:53 < antto> they give you 1 (or a few) hour(s) or something
2021-02-02T00:49:08 < kakium69> time?
2021-02-02T00:49:21 < kakium69> unless you pay?
2021-02-02T00:49:21 < antto> yes, what else
2021-02-02T00:49:49 < antto> they rely on your $$$$$$
2021-02-02T00:49:59 < antto> then u also may become famous
2021-02-02T00:50:49 < antto> but f*ck that.. the website was turned into sh*t.. specifically their stupid tendancy to auto play after the current track ends
2021-02-02T00:50:56 < antto> and it plays $something
2021-02-02T00:51:03 < antto> i insta-close it
2021-02-02T00:51:13 < kakium69> it plays far better than ytm autoplay
2021-02-02T00:51:28 < antto> pootube autoplay did not exist for a long time
2021-02-02T00:51:36 < antto> soundcloud is like that since years
2021-02-02T00:52:05 < kakium69> wait
2021-02-02T00:52:12 < kakium69> there is no button to turn it off?
2021-02-02T00:52:22 < antto> in soundcloud?
2021-02-02T00:52:25 < kakium69> y
2021-02-02T00:52:32 < antto> of course there ain't
2021-02-02T00:52:53 < antto> why do you think i said "insta-close"
2021-02-02T00:53:07 < antto> it was NOT like that when i registered
2021-02-02T00:53:22 < antto> or was it
2021-02-02T00:53:38 < antto> i don't remember.. but it got worse after some point in time
2021-02-02T00:56:36 < antto> "164 of 180 minutes used" .. so it's 3 hours
2021-02-02T00:56:56 < kakium69> 5.99eurss!
2021-02-02T00:57:02 < kakium69> per month
2021-02-02T00:57:16 < antto> how about no
2021-02-02T00:57:47 < antto> i put my "sh*t" there for free, not gonna do it if it COST me moneyz
2021-02-02T01:00:48 < qyx> put some bitmap fonts there
2021-02-02T01:01:13 < kakium69> I was a bit shocked antto
2021-02-02T01:01:21 < antto> hm?
2021-02-02T01:01:22 < qyx> freeertos thinks I slept well and longer than I should
2021-02-02T01:01:31 < kakium69> 6eur is something
2021-02-02T01:02:08 < antto> i'm already paying 5 bucks for hosting, i might as well splosh them mp3s on there
2021-02-02T01:04:24 < kakium69> https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/78681-add-file-hash-context-menu-windows-8-10-a.html
2021-02-02T01:18:13 < kakium69> booted my linux from old computer in my ryzen beast now
2021-02-02T01:18:37 < antto> oh, u haz ryz0n
2021-02-02T01:19:11 < kakium69> it seems I last time used that lunix in early 2020
2021-02-02T01:19:33 < kakium69> my case really cannot fit that sata drive
2021-02-02T01:19:50 < kakium69> it's open now and sata drive is wired in
2021-02-02T01:20:21 < kakium69> it has all the pr0jext!
2021-02-02T01:20:37 < antto> stick it like this: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d72bb7514d901f2ee4b46cb343a7eb68
2021-02-02T01:20:38 < kakium69> crazy kakistuff
2021-02-02T01:20:59 < kakium69> make a carbon fiber scoop to the case?
2021-02-02T01:21:13 < kakium69> I think I need to order some esata panel mounted thing
2021-02-02T01:21:23 < kakium69> esata is really nice thing
2021-02-02T01:23:02 < antto> if ur sata doesn't fit in tha box, let it stick out of the hood
2021-02-02T01:23:40 < kakium69> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-M91p-M81-M93-M93p-M83-E93-M900-SATA-Extension-41R3311-41R3313-eSATA-Cable/153596788329 where is the power?
2021-02-02T01:23:44 < antto> paint it in chrome, iz gonna look "faster"
2021-02-02T01:24:21 < kakium69> couldn't get to uefi setup yesterday because of displayport connection instead of dvi
2021-02-02T01:24:26 < kakium69> go figure
2021-02-02T01:24:31 < kakium69> same gpu
2021-02-02T01:25:17 < antto> remember where most technical equipement problems were solved by hitting the equipement either sideways or downwards
2021-02-02T01:25:22 < antto> * when
2021-02-02T01:27:01 < kakium69> bios update gave me satisfaction today
2021-02-02T01:27:19 < kakium69> I now have ie. resizeable bar support
2021-02-02T01:27:52 < antto> you were resizing ur bar untill u got satisfaction?
2021-02-02T01:27:58 < kakium69> not that is makes any difference
2021-02-02T01:28:00 < antto> NSFW that sh*t!
2021-02-02T01:28:47 < antto> uh-oh.. CAT_IRQ
2021-02-02T01:38:04 < kakium69> :o
2021-02-02T01:51:52 < qyx> re: lptim, there are some errata https://gist.github.com/jefftenney/02b313fe649a14b4c75237f925872d72
2021-02-02T01:52:06 < qyx> looks like a moderately fucked up peripheral
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2021-02-02T01:59:25 < qyx> Acknowledge and clear the CMPM event.  Based on the errata, we dare not clear this flag unless it
2021-02-02T01:59:34 < qyx> is already set.  Call it an over-abundance of caution
2021-02-02T01:59:35 < qyx> heh
2021-02-02T02:00:27 < R2COM> mawk you alive
2021-02-02T02:00:34 < mawk> yes
2021-02-02T02:00:50 < mawk> want some crystal math?
2021-02-02T02:01:19 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/DQKHgmxkDHBnmNbfLKdd4G
2021-02-02T02:01:27 < R2COM> what you think of this way of coding driver for GPIO
2021-02-02T02:01:36 < R2COM> i will use specialized template for each port
2021-02-02T02:01:51 < R2COM> and then in my main.cpp i do:
2021-02-02T02:01:57 < R2COM> 	CGPIO <GPIO::C>portc;
2021-02-02T02:01:57 < mawk> zyp is also a C++ magician
2021-02-02T02:01:57 < R2COM> 					
2021-02-02T02:01:57 < R2COM> 	portc.setpin(9);
2021-02-02T02:02:03 < mawk> I'm not the best guy in town
2021-02-02T02:02:07 < mawk> but let me look
2021-02-02T02:02:25 < R2COM> what i linked only for PORTC but will be multiplied to other ports
2021-02-02T02:02:31 < R2COM> i think its a neat way
2021-02-02T02:02:33 < kakium69> embedly shows the whole code in irc window :o
2021-02-02T02:03:10 < R2COM> and i made variadic template for setreg function, defined at end of this file:
2021-02-02T02:03:11 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/EDwLPxrJN2xtc9NXupZVr8
2021-02-02T02:03:14 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-02T02:03:20 < R2COM> btw this is file i wrote from scratch
2021-02-02T02:03:22 < mawk> but then you have to specialize for each port R2COM no?
2021-02-02T02:03:24 < R2COM> my own new driver
2021-02-02T02:03:33 < R2COM> mawk yes i will specialise for each port
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2021-02-02T02:03:41 < mawk> instead of using address as template parameter or something
2021-02-02T02:03:43 < mawk> why?
2021-02-02T02:03:48 < mawk> they aren't the same?
2021-02-02T02:03:56 < R2COM> CGPIO <GPIO::C>portc;
2021-02-02T02:03:57 < mawk> the same way to program them
2021-02-02T02:04:01 < R2COM> portc.setpin(9);
2021-02-02T02:04:03 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-02T02:04:10 < R2COM> this is shortest code to for example set pin
2021-02-02T02:04:24 < mawk> yes that's a cool way to use it
2021-02-02T02:04:24 < R2COM> when when you create portc object, its pins and clocks initialized in constructor
2021-02-02T02:04:32 < mawk> hmm
2021-02-02T02:04:43 < mawk> and is port B so different?
2021-02-02T02:04:46 < R2COM> so... constructor will depend on each application wiring
2021-02-02T02:04:48 < R2COM> so yes
2021-02-02T02:04:56 < mawk> so different that you need a whole different set of functions
2021-02-02T02:05:00 < R2COM> in constructor, MODER OTYPER etc etc setup depending on hardware
2021-02-02T02:05:07 < R2COM> only inside constructor
2021-02-02T02:05:15 < R2COM> which is not hard to modify
2021-02-02T02:05:19 < R2COM> its 1-time thing for each project
2021-02-02T02:05:23 < mawk> ah
2021-02-02T02:05:23 < R2COM> rest is all untouched
2021-02-02T02:05:39 < R2COM> you saw my driver too? with setreg and getreg functions at very end?
2021-02-02T02:05:42 < R2COM> 2nd link
2021-02-02T02:05:43 < mawk> so port C is how you call the gpio bank on your mcu?
2021-02-02T02:06:02 < R2COM> yes there is a class enum in driver file
2021-02-02T02:06:13 < R2COM> so that 2nd link i typed all from 0
2021-02-02T02:06:19 < R2COM> https://paste.ofcode.org/EDwLPxrJN2xtc9NXupZVr8
2021-02-02T02:06:44 < R2COM> no more #defines, all adheres to c++ standards etc...
2021-02-02T02:06:44 < mawk> it made my android chrome crash lol
2021-02-02T02:06:48 < mawk> I'm trying again
2021-02-02T02:06:57 < mawk> I just saw a bunch of constexpr
2021-02-02T02:07:03 < mawk> which is a cool feature
2021-02-02T02:07:04 < R2COM> yes and go to very bottom
2021-02-02T02:07:14 < R2COM> you will see a variadic templated setreg fun ction
2021-02-02T02:07:33 < R2COM> so. it works like:  setreg(REGADDR, setting1, setting2,.....settingN.....);
2021-02-02T02:07:39 < R2COM> no more | operation and shit
2021-02-02T02:07:47 < R2COM> constexpr function which rolls out during compile time
2021-02-02T02:08:02 < R2COM> and setreg/getreg used by the peripheral drivers, like one i showed for CGPIO
2021-02-02T02:08:48 < R2COM> as an example, let me show you how i wrote driver (initial version) for RCC
2021-02-02T02:08:50 < R2COM> here:  https://paste.ofcode.org/jbuhAi27PCeWmLfRyzWTyN
2021-02-02T02:08:56 < R2COM> ^ RCC driver
2021-02-02T02:09:05 < R2COM> now... in main.cpp all i need to do is this:
2021-02-02T02:09:07 < mawk> it crashed my whole android, I'll look when on pc
2021-02-02T02:09:10 < mawk> but it looks cool
2021-02-02T02:09:18 < R2COM> 	CRCC rcc;
2021-02-02T02:09:19 < mawk> setreg you give bits to mask in ?
2021-02-02T02:09:42 < R2COM> setreg does masking itself.. all you do is give settings separated by comma
2021-02-02T02:09:51 < mawk> ie setreg(X, a, b , c) does *X = a|b|c;
2021-02-02T02:09:57 < R2COM> yes
2021-02-02T02:10:02 < mawk> I see
2021-02-02T02:10:17 < mawk> nice
2021-02-02T02:10:17 < R2COM> CRCC rcc; <--- -gues that will that do? it will set already 48MHz system clock out of PLL
2021-02-02T02:10:33 < R2COM> unless you supply init values to rcc {val 1 val 2 } copnfiguring clocking system differently
2021-02-02T02:10:49 < R2COM> by default its 8mhz in, 48MHz system clock out of PLL (most used stuff for me at least)
2021-02-02T02:10:55 < R2COM> and done in 1 line of code in main.cpp
2021-02-02T02:11:09 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-02T02:11:30 < R2COM> it also saves default calibration / trim values in private variable (in case where id need it etc)
2021-02-02T02:11:51 < R2COM> all functions roll out as constexpr
2021-02-02T02:11:59 < R2COM> and no multiple function calling
2021-02-02T02:12:02 < R2COM> all compile time thing
2021-02-02T02:13:14 < R2COM> im done coding for register settings of TIM1, GPIO, RCC
2021-02-02T02:13:16 < R2COM> will complete all
2021-02-02T02:13:23 < R2COM> and write drivers for each
2021-02-02T02:13:33 < R2COM> already done coding CMSIS or whatever
2021-02-02T02:13:39 < R2COM> interrupt related stuff
2021-02-02T02:13:42 < mawk> ask zyp what he's done
2021-02-02T02:13:48 < mawk> he did a lot of stuff like that
2021-02-02T02:13:48 < R2COM> i saw his stuff
2021-02-02T02:13:52 < mawk> ah nice
2021-02-02T02:14:11 < mawk> I tried to do what you did in C++ but for amd64
2021-02-02T02:14:14 < mawk> pc platform
2021-02-02T02:14:28 < R2COM> pc platform for what?
2021-02-02T02:14:38 < mawk> I was making a kernel
2021-02-02T02:14:46 < R2COM> kernel for amd64?
2021-02-02T02:14:50 < mawk> yes
2021-02-02T02:14:54 < R2COM> kernel means, you were doing OS?
2021-02-02T02:14:59 < mawk> yes
2021-02-02T02:15:08 < mawk> it's not so different than targeting a MCU
2021-02-02T02:15:21 < mawk> but it's a bit more difficult
2021-02-02T02:15:21 < R2COM> so you made OS for 64bit PC?
2021-02-02T02:15:32 < mawk> yes it boots on 64 bits pc
2021-02-02T02:15:42 < R2COM> why you made it?
2021-02-02T02:16:07 < mawk> initializes keyboard, mouse, serial port, screen, graphics card, then writes stuff to the screen using builtin fonts
2021-02-02T02:16:15 < mawk> responding to keyboard and mouse events
2021-02-02T02:16:23 < mawk> to learn how x86 works
2021-02-02T02:16:32 < R2COM> but....can it run Cyberpunk2077?
2021-02-02T02:16:34 < R2COM> jk
2021-02-02T02:16:37 < mawk> lol
2021-02-02T02:17:30 < mawk> there are a lot of legacy stuff from 80386 and earlier to fill in
2021-02-02T02:17:30 < R2COM> but it means you can easily roll out RTOS for stm32 too?
2021-02-02T02:17:44 < R2COM> from scratch
2021-02-02T02:17:51 < mawk> then page tables and interrupt tables and all kind of system descriptors
2021-02-02T02:18:01 < mawk> I don't know, it's two different things
2021-02-02T02:18:07 < R2COM> yes...cuz its RTOS
2021-02-02T02:18:09 < mawk> I hadn't done a scheduler yet in the kernel
2021-02-02T02:18:13 < mawk> only cooperative
2021-02-02T02:18:30 < R2COM> can you run RTOS on x86?
2021-02-02T02:18:35 < mawk> yes
2021-02-02T02:18:39 < mawk> Linux can be one
2021-02-02T02:18:46 < mawk> with the proper patches
2021-02-02T02:18:58 < mawk> xenomai, preempt-rt
2021-02-02T02:19:15 < R2COM> refresh my mem..shouldnt there be something in hardware architecture that makes use of RTOS on x86 not doable
2021-02-02T02:19:27 < R2COM> or no..
2021-02-02T02:19:29 < R2COM> hm
2021-02-02T02:20:05 < mawk>  why?
2021-02-02T02:20:15 < R2COM> ok dunno might be wrong
2021-02-02T02:20:32 < mawk> x86 is CISC and instructions are not precisely defined in terms of clock cycles
2021-02-02T02:20:38 < mawk> but that's not really a barrier to RTOS
2021-02-02T02:20:38 < R2COM> btw, i noticed there are only 1-2 RTOS open source for stm32 written in c++
2021-02-02T02:20:41 < R2COM> most of shit is in C
2021-02-02T02:20:48 < mawk> linux + preempt-rt is RTOS
2021-02-02T02:20:48 < R2COM> ah
2021-02-02T02:20:54 < R2COM> yes, ok thanks, thats what i wanted to know
2021-02-02T02:21:16 < mawk> zephyr is C++ I think, mbed too
2021-02-02T02:21:17 < R2COM> if its barrier to rtos or not
2021-02-02T02:21:44 < mawk> instructions are bounded in time, so it can be RTOS
2021-02-02T02:22:02 < mawk> and anyway core is so fast that you easily achieve μs realtime constraints
2021-02-02T02:22:09 < mawk> if you do it right, even with a full linux running
2021-02-02T02:22:17 < R2COM> heh
2021-02-02T02:22:28 < mawk> preempt-rt makes the kernel preemptiblr
2021-02-02T02:22:32 < R2COM> i guess thats whaty they should run on expensive ass oscilloscopes..not win10 lol
2021-02-02T02:22:40 < mawk> so your tasks have even higher priority than the kernel
2021-02-02T02:22:44 < mawk> lol
2021-02-02T02:22:45 < R2COM> heh
2021-02-02T02:23:07 < R2COM> we have some really nice scopes at work which kick a lot, but kinda older and run win7....
2021-02-02T02:23:15 < R2COM> and IT doesnt let connect that to network
2021-02-02T02:23:22 < R2COM> and update costs money and not always maintained
2021-02-02T02:23:47 < R2COM> preempt-rt is linux patch?
2021-02-02T02:23:49 < R2COM> for any distro?
2021-02-02T02:23:56 < R2COM> which converts linux to rtos-like OS?
2021-02-02T02:24:35 < mawk> more or less
2021-02-02T02:24:44 < mawk> you have to write realtime application after that
2021-02-02T02:25:05 < mawk> you put them in the realtime scheduling class with the priority you want, and it will run realtime
2021-02-02T02:25:07 < R2COM> what happens to rest of apps and shit?
2021-02-02T02:25:17 < mawk> they slow down
2021-02-02T02:25:23 < mawk> if your task is blocking
2021-02-02T02:25:27 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-02T02:26:00 < mawk> or rather they freeze
2021-02-02T02:26:05 < mawk> like on MS-DOS
2021-02-02T02:26:45 < R2COM> is ThreadX an RTOS from M$ ?
2021-02-02T02:26:58 < R2COM> but its not for PC.. hm
2021-02-02T02:27:38 < R2COM> and not free
2021-02-02T02:28:12 < mawk> it's not from ms right?
2021-02-02T02:28:20 < R2COM> i thought it is
2021-02-02T02:28:23 < mawk> it's the os running on raspberry pi
2021-02-02T02:28:30 < mawk> in the coprocessor
2021-02-02T02:28:40 < mawk> VideoCore IV or something
2021-02-02T02:28:49 < R2COM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThreadX
2021-02-02T02:28:53 < R2COM> i thjink it runs on anything
2021-02-02T02:29:01 < aandrew> R2COM: one of my contracts is threadx based
2021-02-02T02:29:04 < aandrew> not a bad rtos
2021-02-02T02:29:12 < mawk> ah they just bought it
2021-02-02T02:29:12 < aandrew> my only other experience with it was in the fx3
2021-02-02T02:29:14 < mawk> as always
2021-02-02T02:29:16 < R2COM> i don't know why would people choose it
2021-02-02T02:29:16 < aandrew> yes ms just bought it
2021-02-02T02:29:32 < aandrew> R2COM: because it's backed by ms and I bet they get a decent deal on support
2021-02-02T02:29:44 < aandrew> this contract is 100% ms shop, including teams which is total garbage
2021-02-02T02:30:03 < R2COM> what you mean garbage teams
2021-02-02T02:38:23 < mawk> teams is a software
2021-02-02T02:38:41 < mawk> like zoom
2021-02-02T02:39:33 < R2COM> http://micro-os-plus.github.io/
2021-02-02T02:39:41 < R2COM> https://github.com/shangaoren/yggdrasil
2021-02-02T02:39:48 < R2COM> https://flit.github.io/projects/argon/
2021-02-02T02:39:53 < R2COM> https://github.com/scmrtos/scmrtos
2021-02-02T02:39:55 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-02T02:40:02 < aandrew> yes
2021-02-02T02:40:05 < aandrew> teams is shit software
2021-02-02T02:40:08 < R2COM> some list of c++ based rtos, not sure if you heard or know what good there
2021-02-02T02:40:09 < aandrew> it's just awful
2021-02-02T02:42:05 < R2COM> scmrtos seems interesting, saw some comments on people that they used it and its fast & small
2021-02-02T02:43:41 < R2COM> anyway
2021-02-02T02:43:46 < R2COM> will look into that later
2021-02-02T02:44:04 < R2COM> as of now im excited to finally have own lib and never come back to CMSIS or HAL or some other faggotry
2021-02-02T02:45:50 < R2COM> so im now working on some fpga flow automation
2021-02-02T02:46:03 < R2COM> and was thinking about some projs online mentioning someone trying to make scons work with it
2021-02-02T02:46:05 < R2COM> as build system
2021-02-02T02:46:15 < R2COM> but then im like.. hmm its not really C compile flow
2021-02-02T02:46:20 < R2COM> does it need system like scons
2021-02-02T02:46:32 < R2COM> cuz here... if some module is changed, synthesis has to be redone anyway
2021-02-02T02:46:32 < aandrew> sounds like too much work
2021-02-02T02:46:45 < R2COM> so i dont think that fpga flow would benefit from systems like scons
2021-02-02T02:47:03 < R2COM> what im doing now is automating flow script creation from source files using python
2021-02-02T02:47:07 < R2COM> and i feel its good enough
2021-02-02T02:47:14 < R2COM> (basically im not using ISE  GUI)
2021-02-02T02:47:42 < R2COM> scons is best for c++ projects not HDL..
2021-02-02T02:48:05 < aandrew> did you see that MachXO3 has full OSS flow support now
2021-02-02T02:48:07 < aandrew> verilog 
2021-02-02T02:48:57 < R2COM> i never done lattice
2021-02-02T02:48:59 < R2COM> what about it
2021-02-02T02:49:29 < aandrew> that's the news right there
2021-02-02T02:49:39 < aandrew> I like lattice and altera/intel
2021-02-02T02:50:30 < R2COM> OSS = ?
2021-02-02T02:50:57 < R2COM> open source soft?
2021-02-02T02:51:09 < R2COM> you mena it has full support with free tools?
2021-02-02T02:53:38 < R2COM> what about verilog sim?
2021-02-02T02:53:40 < R2COM> which one used
2021-02-02T02:53:50 < R2COM> dont see any mentioning about it at least on lattice website
2021-02-02T02:56:12 < R2COM> anyway, unless its something as polished as "gcc" its proly not worth dealing with
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2021-02-02T04:32:26 < mawk> R2COM: it's probably not lattice themselves that made the OSS toolchain
2021-02-02T04:32:33 < mawk> so don't look on their website
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2021-02-02T11:30:40 < karlp> aandrew: wasn't it mach xo2?
2021-02-02T11:52:09 < mawk> an ex girlfriend sent me a message "I was thinking about you recently"
2021-02-02T11:52:16 < mawk> I'm pretty sure that means "I'm lonely I want some action"
2021-02-02T12:00:40 < BrainDamage> ask her if she's desperate enough to cross country borders
2021-02-02T12:01:44 < mawk> lol
2021-02-02T12:11:57 < BrainDamage> "I know the feeling, sitting here in the netherlands makes me reminesce and yearn for familiar people"
2021-02-02T12:13:28 < karlp> aandrew: https://twitter.com/cr1901/status/1356042679608606721 ?
2021-02-02T12:13:36 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2021-02-02T12:47:22 < zyp> karlp, nice
2021-02-02T12:50:26 < karlp> looks fairly preliminary, but still, I expect the lattice experience means that it will be substantially easier as they get into more and more of them
2021-02-02T12:50:51 < karlp> with ice40, ecp5 and xo2, the overlap to get the rest should start getting smaller and smaller one would presume
2021-02-02T12:51:15 < zyp> machxo2 looks pretty great for simple stuff, runs at 3.3V, builtin flash, available in qfn32
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2021-02-02T14:06:57 < englishman> wfh day, winds up to 70km/h already and the snow hasnt started yet
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2021-02-02T14:44:43 < zyp> fun
2021-02-02T14:49:30 < qyx> no snow here
2021-02-02T15:02:21 -!- nashpa [~nashpa@dliviu.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-02T15:02:46 < englishman> https://streamable.com/z49psb
2021-02-02T15:06:09 < qyx> the question now is, should I take a picture before it catches fire?
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2021-02-02T15:07:45 < qyx> lol I want
2021-02-02T15:08:05 < qyx> people would be happy to stay locked down if such thing happened here
2021-02-02T15:13:38 < zyp> ah, feels like home
2021-02-02T15:14:15 < zyp> never really have that weather here in the south of norway, but I grew up in the north
2021-02-02T15:23:17  * qyx connecting scope to 230 V PSU
2021-02-02T15:24:07 < qyx> idk why it draws 13.6 mA on the AC side when unloaded
2021-02-02T15:24:34 < jpa-> you might want one of my isolators to protect your keyboard
2021-02-02T15:24:53 < zyp> :D
2021-02-02T15:25:09 < zyp> note: only works if it's connected
2021-02-02T15:26:10 < BrainDamage> maybe it's the current leak through the compensation caps
2021-02-02T15:26:21 < BrainDamage> altough 3W on the caps sound quite a bit
2021-02-02T15:26:32 < karlp> jpa-: final toll on that was keyboard, 2 hubs, scope, and motherboard ;)
2021-02-02T15:27:02 < karlp> I've got no idea how the mobo ethernet got killed, but I never got link on ethernet after that, ended up using the opportunity and moving down to a mATX mobo and case instead.
2021-02-02T15:27:08 < karlp> now it's on my desk and I need less hubs too
2021-02-02T15:28:33 < qyx> BrainDamage: idk, maybe snubber or what
2021-02-02T15:28:40 < jpa-> karlp: that's a pretty bad toll even for the short-circuit you had - usually one would just blow a trace on the scope
2021-02-02T15:28:46 < qyx> I am not going to touch it to see if it is warm
2021-02-02T15:28:52 < karlp> well, it's a usb scope.
2021-02-02T15:29:03 < karlp> and yes, I was very surpised that a _separate- usb hub died
2021-02-02T15:29:05 < jpa-> i have GFCI for my electronics bench, hopefully it would do something in such a case
2021-02-02T15:29:34 < karlp> the scope no longer enumerates, the port it was on causes errors, but the rest of the ports on tha thub actually work ok, but the errors annoy me enough that I've binned it.
2021-02-02T15:29:36 < BrainDamage> qyx: ir thermometer is pretty useful for those things, and not as expensive as a thermal camera
2021-02-02T15:30:10 < karlp> the other unconnected hub no longer enumerates either, no idea why, and of course, the hub in the keyboard died, so the keyboard itself became useless.
2021-02-02T15:30:25 < karlp> anyway, I now have a quieter non-mech setup, with a smaller quieter pc case as well.
2021-02-02T15:30:39 < karlp> and a nice story about engineering samples and hazardous indications
2021-02-02T15:30:39 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3Mojr.JPG
2021-02-02T15:30:48 < qyx> karlp: :D
2021-02-02T15:30:56 < jpa-> that's the great thing about PCs, always good reason for upgrading
2021-02-02T15:31:20 < karlp> kept the cpu and ram, they weren't so old, gen 8, coffee lake stuff
2021-02-02T15:31:38 < karlp> daughters got to see a pc get rebuilt and poke screwdrivers around.
2021-02-02T15:35:19 < BrainDamage> it's like lego, but when you mess up you get to see nice fireworks
2021-02-02T15:40:37 < qyx> AC meter says 0
2021-02-02T15:40:50 < qyx> maybe my uni-t is not true rms
2021-02-02T15:41:04 < qyx> I was measuring AC voltage drop on a series resistor
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2021-02-02T16:08:56 < aandrew> karlp: oh, my mistake, I read too quickly
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2021-02-02T16:19:31 < qyx> meh I though it has 2 Vpp ripple on the output
2021-02-02T16:19:38 < qyx> the probe accidentally switched to 1x
2021-02-02T16:19:56 < qyx> 200 mV is still too much though
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2021-02-02T17:12:33 < kakium69> google is back in android phones?
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2021-02-02T17:13:15 < kakium69> pixel 5
2021-02-02T17:13:31 < kakium69> they use motorola as supplier?
2021-02-02T17:25:19 < zyp> wikipedia says foxconn
2021-02-02T17:26:49 < kakium69> :o
2021-02-02T17:30:25 < kakium69> gphone
2021-02-02T17:55:34 < qyx> karlp: see https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/zcm-42/casove-rele-cislicove/zamel/
2021-02-02T17:55:38 < qyx> you should use esp32 too
2021-02-02T17:55:59 < qyx> (actually I didn't check but 90% it is esp)
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2021-02-02T19:33:08 < jadew> what color temperature do you keep your monitors at?
2021-02-02T19:34:57 < BrainDamage> 10KK, it doubles as tanning lamp
2021-02-02T19:35:09 < jadew> heh
2021-02-02T19:35:22 < jadew> I'm asking because I realized I don't know what white looks like
2021-02-02T19:35:35 < jadew> thought I could look at the walls, but then the walls are lit artificially...
2021-02-02T19:35:39 < BrainDamage> the nominal one is 5000K
2021-02-02T19:36:01 < BrainDamage> buuut, you have to consider that your panel is not calibrated
2021-02-02T19:36:29 < BrainDamage> also, "white" can be produced in many ways
2021-02-02T19:36:35 < jadew> my calibrator recommends 6500K - I got used to it, but now the light in my room has a red tint, because I have warm LED bulbs
2021-02-02T19:37:27 < zyp> I keep mine on default, whatever that is
2021-02-02T19:37:27 < BrainDamage> you can take a blue laser and a yellow laser, and you'll see white, on the other hand, everything illuminated by them will look like shit
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2021-02-02T19:38:02 < jadew> zyp, I used to do that too, but now I'm not sure what default is
2021-02-02T19:38:15 < jadew> when I got my LED displays I manually calibrated them to look like the CCFL ones
2021-02-02T19:38:20 < BrainDamage> go with what feels comfortabl
2021-02-02T19:38:33 < BrainDamage> it's not like you need accurate colour rendition
2021-02-02T19:38:35 < jadew> now the only CCFL I have cannot do 6500K at the correct brightness so it looks like crap
2021-02-02T19:39:05 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah... I don't, I just want them to be similar
2021-02-02T19:39:39 < jadew> also, the fact that I can now calibrate them for a particular brightness has me wonder what brightness is better for your eyes?
2021-02-02T19:40:22 < jadew> does the same thing with white bg/black bg applies? where black bg is bad because your iris has to be more dilated to let in more light
2021-02-02T19:40:52 < zyp> apparently I've got mine set to 40% brightness
2021-02-02T19:41:03 < jadew> the calibrator recommended me 180 something (candles I think)
2021-02-02T19:41:16 < jadew> and I calibrated them for 120 and it still feels too bright
2021-02-02T19:41:20 < zyp> 350cd/m2 is apparently max
2021-02-02T19:41:41 < zyp> not sure how linear that is though
2021-02-02T19:41:42 < jadew> so 140
2021-02-02T19:41:51 < jadew> oh wait, I calibrated them for 140
2021-02-02T19:42:06 < jadew> was thinking that maybe I should go for 120 next
2021-02-02T19:44:35 < BrainDamage> I feel like after a day staring at it, your own body is able to tell you if the setting was comfortable or not
2021-02-02T19:44:45 < BrainDamage> regardless of prescribed numbers
2021-02-02T19:46:47 < BrainDamage> granted, the symptoms of eye fatigue are not always evident, but if you compare few days you can easily see if you feel better or worse at the end of the day
2021-02-02T19:47:46 < jadew> yeah, I'll give it a try at 140
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2021-02-02T19:59:57 < machinehum> Does anyone know how the code at the bottom related to PRBS7? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_binary_sequence
2021-02-02T20:02:19 < machinehum> If I wanted to modify it for PRBSk, where would I start? I see no exponentiations as one would expect after reading the the section above 
2021-02-02T20:06:35 < machinehum> Nevermind got it
2021-02-02T20:15:59 < Laurenceb> anyone familiar with lunix sound here?
2021-02-02T20:16:19 < Laurenceb> if there a way to stop my mono mic being copied across both stereo channels?
2021-02-02T20:17:03 < Laurenceb> in theory my sound hardware should support two mic inputs mapping to left and right channels, but atm one mono mic seems to be mapped to two channels at once
2021-02-02T20:22:39 < jadew> could be a function of the recording software
2021-02-02T20:22:55 < jadew> I think you can select only one channel in audigy
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2021-02-02T20:29:47 < Laurenceb> ah
2021-02-02T20:30:08 < Laurenceb> yeah looking at the realtek datasheet it would be possible to input two mics at a time as steroe
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2021-02-02T20:35:42 < Steffanx> Wtf are you even doing Laurenceb ? Internal mic?!
2021-02-02T20:37:30 < Laurenceb> was going to try adaptive noise canelling
2021-02-02T20:37:35 < Laurenceb> *cancelling
2021-02-02T20:41:04 < machinehum> Laurenceb: pavucontrol gives decent control over everything
2021-02-02T20:41:28 < Laurenceb> machinehum: it only lets me select a single source at a time
2021-02-02T20:47:31 < BrainDamage> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/Modules/#module-echo-cancel
2021-02-02T20:47:50 < BrainDamage> you can use any number of sources and beamforming
2021-02-02T20:48:01 < BrainDamage> with the webrtc driver
2021-02-02T20:51:59 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-02T20:52:45 < Laurenceb> hmm it _looks_ like the realtek driver is configured to just use the left hand ADC channel
2021-02-02T20:53:10 < Laurenceb> in which case I could only do this with usb adaptor unless I can haxor it
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2021-02-02T20:54:18 < Laurenceb> the realtek ADC/DAC on my machine can input two mics as left and right channels if the driver allowed it
2021-02-02T20:55:10 < Laurenceb> I have line in support so it should be possible to run mics in similar fashion
2021-02-02T20:55:20 < Laurenceb>  -  stereo line in
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2021-02-02T21:15:52 < jadew> lol, yesterday everyone was pushing for silver, today it crashed
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2021-02-02T21:21:29 < kakium69> is there a way to see what shit has been installed to bubuntu compared to freshly installed system?
2021-02-02T21:21:49 < kakium69> compared to release set of packages
2021-02-02T21:21:50 < qyx> there is an apt.log
2021-02-02T21:23:26 < kakium69> that's a non-solution solution
2021-02-02T21:24:03 < kakium69> I wonder if synaptic had feature to show installed shits
2021-02-02T21:24:27 < zyp> obviously you can get a list of installed packets
2021-02-02T21:24:28 < qyx> you can show installed shit, but probably not diff against fresh install
2021-02-02T21:25:02 < qyx> idk if a distro carries its table of contents
2021-02-02T21:25:48 < kakium69> I'm concidering fresh install now
2021-02-02T21:26:35 < kakium69> instead of carrying files with rsync from mint19 installation from 512gb to 256gb ssd
2021-02-02T21:31:36 < kakium69> yeah I think I'll try it
2021-02-02T21:31:44 < kakium69> install mint20
2021-02-02T21:32:07 < kakium69> then try to mount old mint
2021-02-02T21:39:16 < kakium69> have you tried to boot your dualboot linux from windows host vm?
2021-02-02T21:43:45 < kakium69> what happens if you select windows bootloader?
2021-02-02T21:43:48 < kakium69> in grub
2021-02-02T21:53:42 < Steffanx> try and see
2021-02-02T21:53:47 < Steffanx> the only proper way to do things
2021-02-02T21:55:02 < BrainDamage> kakium69: install it on a VM, then dump the package list
2021-02-02T21:55:20 < kakium69> ye
2021-02-02T21:55:24 < kakium69> that's easier!
2021-02-02T21:55:43 < kakium69> also for copying shits
2021-02-02T21:56:05 < kakium69> else I would need to figure out how to mount LVM and encrypted home
2021-02-02T21:59:36 < bitmask> man, shoveling snow really shows how out of shape you are
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2021-02-02T22:03:30 < kakium69> handschuhe
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2021-02-02T22:05:28 < bitmask> footmittehn
2021-02-02T22:06:39 < Steffanx> Why do you want to know this anyway kakium69 ? if you need some package you dont have you install it, if you have to install some package you dont even know you had why install it?
2021-02-02T22:06:56 -!- Simon-- [~sim@2606:6a00:0:28:5604:a6ff:fe02:702b] has quit [Client Quit]
2021-02-02T22:07:36 < kakium69> I just want kinda continue where I left
2021-02-02T22:08:07 < Steffanx> then copy everything?
2021-02-02T22:08:12 < kakium69> ye
2021-02-02T22:08:54 < Steffanx> i got a new ssd last week. copied windows while running the same windows. works like a charm
2021-02-02T22:09:25 < qyx> yeah, can be done with lvm too
2021-02-02T22:09:33 < qyx> hot-plug new drive
2021-02-02T22:09:56 < Steffanx> Copying one nvme disk to another is crazy fast anyway
2021-02-02T22:10:02 < qyx> extend volume group, move pe, remove old drive
2021-02-02T22:10:10 < qyx> hot unplug
2021-02-02T22:11:02 < kakium69> Steffanx: sata 512gb to nvme 256
2021-02-02T22:11:34 < kakium69> Steffanx: samsung magician?
2021-02-02T22:11:42 < Steffanx> 512 GB to 1TB
2021-02-02T22:12:07 < qyx> moneyed westener
2021-02-02T22:12:24 < Steffanx> Macrium Reflect is what I used for the copying 
2021-02-02T22:15:13 < kakium69> 1TB costs 100e nowdays btw
2021-02-02T22:15:22 < kakium69> in nvme format
2021-02-02T22:17:46 < kakium69> 128GB usb dongle <20e
2021-02-02T22:20:17 < Steffanx> retweeting: https://multistream.co/p/XIdcDFawhZ9/SN9
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2021-02-02T22:21:04 < karlp> qyx: nice price on that zamel, but it's just a couple of relays
2021-02-02T22:21:27 < qyx> T-4m
2021-02-02T22:21:30 < qyx> sn9
2021-02-02T22:24:07 < Steffanx> more like ~1 minute
2021-02-02T22:24:26 < qyx> there are two?
2021-02-02T22:24:35 < qyx> will it be dual kaboom?
2021-02-02T22:24:41 < Steffanx> no its the right one.
2021-02-02T22:25:12 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zZ7fIkpBgs or the left one i guess? :P
2021-02-02T22:26:20 < karlp> rad! I actyually saw one live
2021-02-02T22:26:22 < karlp> first time in years
2021-02-02T22:26:45 < Steffanx>  \o/
2021-02-02T22:27:02 < Steffanx> its because Thorn stopped posting the links here.
2021-02-02T22:28:00 < karlp> no, they were almost always never at the right time for me.
2021-02-02T22:29:01 < qyx> spacex stream no worky?
2021-02-02T22:29:14 < qyx> oh works now
2021-02-02T22:30:04 < karlp> I wonder what cases those zamel people have
2021-02-02T22:30:51 < karlp> qyx: https://www.tme.eu/is/en/details/grm-10/building-automation/zamel/ is a good deal too, $100 for cellular, rs485 master, usb for ? and the relays....
2021-02-02T22:31:51 < Steffanx> awh
2021-02-02T22:32:13 < jadew> hah
2021-02-02T22:32:25 < jadew> thanks for the link
2021-02-02T22:32:27 < BrainDamage> yessss
2021-02-02T22:32:37 < qyx> second time
2021-02-02T22:32:39 < BrainDamage> well, it landed
2021-02-02T22:32:40 < jadew> first one I see live
2021-02-02T22:32:45 < qyx> great flight, yeah
2021-02-02T22:32:55 < Steffanx> nice boom
2021-02-02T22:33:02 < karlp> oh, it lands that fast?
2021-02-02T22:33:07 < karlp> the stream broke, so I just turned it off
2021-02-02T22:33:09 < karlp> oh well.
2021-02-02T22:33:19 < jadew> it blew up
2021-02-02T22:33:35 < karlp> oh man
2021-02-02T22:33:45 < karlp> first one I saw launch, and didn't even stay with it after it took off
2021-02-02T22:33:54 < karlp> didn't think this was a landing test thingy, should have known better :)
2021-02-02T22:34:02 < qyx> yeah, it landed with fire effects
2021-02-02T22:35:24 < PaulFertser> tbh, I was literally speechless for a second after seeing it explode live.
2021-02-02T22:35:36 < PaulFertser> Somehow it was impressive. Thanks Steffanx 
2021-02-02T22:39:13 < karlp> oh right,w ow, that was cool
2021-02-02T22:40:29 < kakium69> what is your take on using LVM for very basic lunix system installation?
2021-02-02T22:40:51 < zyp> what's the benefit?
2021-02-02T22:40:57 < kakium69> instead of just fat32 + ext4
2021-02-02T22:41:03 < qyx> fa twhat?
2021-02-02T22:41:09 < kakium69> EFI
2021-02-02T22:41:18 < kakium69>  /boot
2021-02-02T22:41:32 < PaulFertser> kakium69: efi grub reads kernel from lvm just fine
2021-02-02T22:41:45 < qyx> imo no point in not using lvm
2021-02-02T22:41:52 < kakium69> for some reason my mint19 has LVM
2021-02-02T22:41:52 < qyx> unless it is embedded or similar
2021-02-02T22:42:11 < BrainDamage> lvm is added if you want flexibility
2021-02-02T22:42:21 < BrainDamage> but for 90% of the users it's not needed
2021-02-02T22:42:40 < kakium69> all i know is I don't even have an idea how to mount that shit
2021-02-02T22:42:40 < qyx> 90% of users don't know what lvm means
2021-02-02T22:42:41 < PaulFertser> lvm is probably good if you plan to ever resize partitions.
2021-02-02T22:42:43 < BrainDamage> it's also extra complexity and more things to go wrong
2021-02-02T22:43:17 < BrainDamage> yes, 90% of the users are oblivious to the partition scheme
2021-02-02T22:43:30 < BrainDamage> it's there to make  the life easier of those in the know
2021-02-02T22:44:06 < qyx> personally I wouldn't ever install anything on a physical hw without lvm because I got used to it
2021-02-02T22:45:40 < zyp> I'd probably rather install zfs anywhere I'd benefit from lvm
2021-02-02T22:46:13 < qyx> thats another group of people
2021-02-02T22:46:30 < qyx> hating layered design :>
2021-02-02T22:46:38 < BrainDamage> I use btrfs, same reason
2021-02-02T22:47:05 < antto> i used btrfs once
2021-02-02T22:47:31 < antto> i found some article about it and thought "ooh, sounds kewl, i shall try it out"
2021-02-02T22:47:49 < antto> turned out a bad choice when the HDD went dying
2021-02-02T22:47:58 < zyp> ah, btrfs exists too
2021-02-02T22:48:17 < antto> so i go back to ext4
2021-02-02T22:48:19 < zyp> it weren't stable enough to consider when I started using zfs, but I guess it might be now
2021-02-02T22:48:40 < BrainDamage> the raid 5,6 are still broken ;(
2021-02-02T22:48:46 < BrainDamage> rest works well
2021-02-02T22:49:04 < karlp> fedora is defaulting to btrfs for new isntalls now
2021-02-02T22:49:27 < BrainDamage> one horrible problem that bit me in the past was that you could run out of metadata space
2021-02-02T22:49:45 < BrainDamage> it's statically allocated, but can be resized online
2021-02-02T22:49:50 < antto> this rings a bell too
2021-02-02T22:49:50 < karlp> so, going through zypsnips for bucks from 12 -> 5V sort of space, not seeing much, did I miss things that were suggested before?
2021-02-02T22:50:04 < qyx> tps62125?
2021-02-02T22:50:18 < zyp> rt7225 or whatever that was called?
2021-02-02T22:50:23 < qyx> but 300 mA only
2021-02-02T22:50:34 < karlp> qyx: yeah, was abotu to say, I want like 3-4A peak
2021-02-02T22:50:43 < BrainDamage> worse, your first instinct with out of space is deleting files, but with CoW you only make it worse
2021-02-02T22:50:46 < qyx> 54240 then?
2021-02-02T22:50:54 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I thought there must be a richtek/mps part somewhere
2021-02-02T22:51:07 < qyx> nobody wants ti :(
2021-02-02T22:51:21 < antto> i'm dumb and i use onsemi's online PSU designer
2021-02-02T22:51:22 < BrainDamage> the only way to fix it was to attach a usb drive, raid0 to it, let it copy some metadata, then run the metadata resize tool
2021-02-02T22:51:33 < karlp> 54240 looks ok, is that one you've used?
2021-02-02T22:51:47 < BrainDamage> nowdays they just regularly resize it when it reaches x % fill
2021-02-02T22:51:55 < BrainDamage> into the data space
2021-02-02T22:52:05 < qyx> karlp: yes but not sync
2021-02-02T22:52:09 < BrainDamage> so it never appens
2021-02-02T22:52:15 < qyx> many volts though
2021-02-02T22:52:23 < karlp> sync/non-sync is just for final efficiency at load right?
2021-02-02T22:52:54 < qyx> yes
2021-02-02T22:53:10 < qyx> I usually select based on Iq
2021-02-02T22:53:17 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: raid0 implies striping; is it possible to "just attach another PV" in "LVM terminology"?
2021-02-02T22:54:26 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: yes, but you have to determine how to data and metadata are shared among the drives
2021-02-02T22:54:45 < BrainDamage> mirrored, striped, etc etc
2021-02-02T22:55:11 < zyp> karlp, looked it up: rt7257b
2021-02-02T22:55:33 < BrainDamage> iin this case, with no metadata space, it couldn't operate because in order to move the data to expand the metadata portion it would have to allocate more metadata
2021-02-02T22:55:50 < BrainDamage> so by attaching a new drive, and stripe the metadata
2021-02-02T22:56:02 < BrainDamage> i had enough space
2021-02-02T22:56:13 < PaulFertser> I see. Sounds like "fun" to figure that trick out.
2021-02-02T22:56:51 < BrainDamage> I spent few hours in the channel with the brtfs devs before we came up with that
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2021-02-02T22:57:35 < PaulFertser> So nice one can get help directly from the real devs.
2021-02-02T23:00:05 < zyp> to get more on topic: I spent some time looking into how C++ exceptions are implemented and I'm starting to think «probably not worth it»
2021-02-02T23:01:18  * antto gives zyp a red "error" LED
2021-02-02T23:02:30 < zyp> duh, the point of exceptions is not to abort the entire system, it's to propagate an error through the call stack to where it can be handled
2021-02-02T23:02:46 < antto> i know, roughly
2021-02-02T23:03:14 < antto> Ameisen went deep into it at one point, i don't remember what his conclusions were
2021-02-02T23:03:45 < antto> i think he had 8bit in mind too then
2021-02-02T23:05:20 < antto> given that avrgcc is built without exceptions
2021-02-02T23:05:22 < zyp> I made a simple test yesterday, and it was adding kilobytes of metadata and unwinding code
2021-02-02T23:05:42 < zyp> i.e. a full minimal firmware with a throw ended up being something like 7k
2021-02-02T23:05:53 < PaulFertser> zyp: what do you think about monadic style of error handling?
2021-02-02T23:06:15 < zyp> not super stripped, but main just calls a function that throws
2021-02-02T23:06:19 < mawk> embedded haskell
2021-02-02T23:06:45 < PaulFertser> C++ allows to bind monads too.
2021-02-02T23:07:21  * antto is eyeballing C++20 things and drooling
2021-02-02T23:07:34 < antto> even tho i don't even understand a fraction of what the new things are
2021-02-02T23:07:59 < zyp> for larger projects, I could probably live with a few kilobytes extra for exception support, but for small things it gets unproportionally heavy
2021-02-02T23:08:39 < zyp> e.g. it'd get hard to fit a useful bootloader in an 8k flash section if you fill over half of it with exception support
2021-02-02T23:09:04 < zyp> and I'm also not convinced about the runtime overhead
2021-02-02T23:09:04 < antto> my xmega bootloader was 12K or more
2021-02-02T23:09:38 < antto> i thought the runtime is low untill sh*t actually hits the fan
2021-02-02T23:09:48 < zyp> apparently the way it's looking up the exception metadata, it's taking the PC value and doing a binary search in a table
2021-02-02T23:10:17 < zyp> yeah, that's how it's designed, it's free until something throws, and then unwinding is expensive
2021-02-02T23:10:47 < zyp> but I figure, what's the point of using exceptions at all if you're never gonna throw one?
2021-02-02T23:10:51 < antto> you could talk with Ameisen, he was into this some year ago
2021-02-02T23:11:13 < karlp> yeah, exceptiosn are mean tto be used
2021-02-02T23:11:34 < karlp> if you're not using them because "oh, they're expensive, can't do that" you get a pile of shit with some things being exceptions and some things not
2021-02-02T23:11:39 < zyp> I pictured using this for e.g. timeout errors
2021-02-02T23:11:41 < antto> i don't use exceptions.. remind me, does anything in the standard stuff require exceptions to be working?
2021-02-02T23:11:53 < antto> did operator new want them?
2021-02-02T23:11:55 < zyp> some parts of STL will throw
2021-02-02T23:12:02 < antto> right..
2021-02-02T23:13:19 < antto> i'm still uber scared to use dynamic memory on embedded, even if i have hundreds of KB of RAM
2021-02-02T23:13:41 < zyp> I'm also avoiding that
2021-02-02T23:13:49  * antto hugs the array<>
2021-02-02T23:13:58 < zyp> so far the only thing I have using the heap are coroutines
2021-02-02T23:14:19 < zyp> because the benefit is large enough to justify it
2021-02-02T23:14:29 < antto> this coroutine thing is one thing i wanna check out in C++20
2021-02-02T23:16:15 < zyp> yeah, I'm pretty happy about how this is working out: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eHBqg
2021-02-02T23:17:55 < antto> uhm, is this a non-blocking, buffered UART transmit+receive, made via the dumb blocking scheme internally?
2021-02-02T23:18:10 < zyp> correct
2021-02-02T23:18:15 < antto> huh
2021-02-02T23:18:34 < antto> how dumb/lazy and yet wonderful.. at the same time
2021-02-02T23:18:35 < antto> ;]
2021-02-02T23:19:35 < zyp> the whole point of coroutines is to be able to write blocking-style code that is actually async
2021-02-02T23:19:54 < zyp> i.e. the readability of blocking code with the performance/behavior of async code
2021-02-02T23:20:06 < antto> yeah, i sorta get the point
2021-02-02T23:20:31 < antto> my non-blocking USART code uses interrupts
2021-02-02T23:20:53 < antto> so it's trickier to get it going
2021-02-02T23:20:57 < mawk> why not DMA
2021-02-02T23:21:15 < antto> coz i currently am using the DMA for audio
2021-02-02T23:22:00 < mawk> you have several dma channels right
2021-02-02T23:22:24 < antto> yes, i have plenty
2021-02-02T23:22:29 < zyp> mawk, DMA solves a slightly different problem
2021-02-02T23:22:51 < mawk> yes I meant for antto 
2021-02-02T23:22:59 < antto> however, this is the first time i use DMA and i wrote it pretty much as part of the I2S code
2021-02-02T23:23:01 < mawk> why did he chose interrupts over DMA
2021-02-02T23:23:04 < mawk> a
2021-02-02T23:23:11 < antto> i didn't write a standalone DMA "driver"
2021-02-02T23:23:15 < zyp> because it's easier?
2021-02-02T23:23:41 < antto> coz i copy/pasted my buffered usart class from my atmega code
2021-02-02T23:23:47 < mawk> "easy" is for lazy people, antto should strive for æsthetic perfection
2021-02-02T23:23:47 < antto> which uses interrupts
2021-02-02T23:23:49 < zyp> interrupts vs dma is not an either/or thing, you'd generally use both
2021-02-02T23:24:05 < antto> yes, you'd still need an interrupt on the DMA then
2021-02-02T23:24:05 < mawk> yes indeed I mean interrupts without dma vs interrupts with dma
2021-02-02T23:24:39 < zyp> maybe dma doesn't fit the application?
2021-02-02T23:24:45 < antto> i lost so much time on these DMA descriptors, i had nightmares aligned to 16 bytes
2021-02-02T23:25:01 < mawk> lol
2021-02-02T23:26:11 < antto> but now i can change the sampling rate and buffer size elegantly from one place, and the code will not compile if the I2S settings are impossible to achieve
2021-02-02T23:26:15 < antto> such much nice
2021-02-02T23:27:04 < antto> the DMA also keeps working when i pause with the debugger
2021-02-02T23:28:26 < antto> too bad the actual project hit a wall.. no f*cking data from the audio codec
2021-02-02T23:30:40 < antto> i wish you could static_printf() or something from templates and/or constexpr functions
2021-02-02T23:31:18 < antto> and also static_warning()
2021-02-02T23:47:07 < karlp> so, if you just go to lcsc and prameter seach you can find some cheap options for 12v->5v at 4A+, but some ofhtem need lots of external parts :)
2021-02-02T23:47:42 < qyx> oh I remember!
2021-02-02T23:47:52 < qyx> on the last pcb I used something awesome
2021-02-02T23:48:40 < BrainDamage> churning so many pcb the memory is just a fleeting feeling
2021-02-02T23:48:57 < karlp> I have some memory of dongs talking about some part that ws 6A capable, but cheap and easy and his china friend just used it for everything
2021-02-02T23:49:01 < qyx> that one was 0.6 A but there were others in the family
2021-02-02T23:49:35 < zyp> karlp, here you go: https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/products/power-modules/step-down/mpm3650.html
2021-02-02T23:50:51 < karlp> zyp: looks nice, bt it's like $4 :)
2021-02-02T23:51:23  * karlp is suspicious of the example schematic only having like 5 terminals, but the part coming in a qfn24
2021-02-02T23:51:25 < zyp> how much is the time you spend searching for the perfect part worth?
2021-02-02T23:51:34 < zyp> :)
2021-02-02T23:51:36 < karlp> oh, it's an internal inductor cuty
2021-02-02T23:51:48 < karlp> well, it's for work, so have to at least pretend to do some diligence
2021-02-02T23:52:03 < karlp> but yes, very much, "get somethign working first" really is a solid plan and what I am trying to do
2021-02-02T23:52:56 < zyp> I still need to play with this at some point: https://www.monolithicpower.com/en/products/power-modules/step-down/mpm54304.html
2021-02-02T23:58:06 < karlp> yeah, I'm kinda curious about whether I can use a pmic thingy, as I need 3.8V and 5V and 3.3V
2021-02-02T23:58:58 < karlp> shoudl stop doing nothing trolling datahseets though
2021-02-02T23:59:03 < zyp> :)
--- Day changed Wed Feb 03 2021
2021-02-03T00:00:46 < karlp> AOZ3018 for my favourite semicon company though...
2021-02-03T00:01:53 < Laurenceb> nice lunix
2021-02-03T00:02:02 < Laurenceb> now I only have "dummy output" sound card
2021-02-03T00:02:58 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-03T00:03:09 < zyp> are there multiple revisions of the f7 discovery board in the wild?
2021-02-03T00:09:27 < BrainDamage> https://streamable.com/h0buyd
2021-02-03T00:10:22 < zyp> doesn't look like significant differences between the schematics
2021-02-03T00:13:52 < kakium69> sweet I booted rawdisk from virtualbox
2021-02-03T00:14:48 < kakium69> now I plan to share a disk image from inside VM to host in order to run another VM
2021-02-03T00:14:48 < karlp> never would have foundthis sort of cool shit without pointlessly trolling datasheets though: LP78071  charges your lipo, gives you yoru regulated output, and only 30c.
2021-02-03T00:17:17 < Laurenceb> hmm any idea how I can debug muh lunix?
2021-02-03T00:17:26 < Laurenceb> I upgraded kernel and now no soundcard
2021-02-03T00:17:56 < Laurenceb> dont know where to start :(
2021-02-03T00:19:29 < zyp> rm -rf /
2021-02-03T00:19:42 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-03T00:19:47 < Laurenceb> even usb cards wont work
2021-02-03T00:20:36 < kakium69> install ubuntu
2021-02-03T00:20:46 < machinehum> What
2021-02-03T00:20:47 < Laurenceb> llol
2021-02-03T00:20:59 < Laurenceb> I have mint
2021-02-03T00:22:03 < zyp> karlp, I bet it's something like that in all those cheap single cell power banks
2021-02-03T00:22:19 < kakium69> install gentoo
2021-02-03T00:22:52 < Laurenceb> hmm dmesg shows all the hardware and alsamixer is all good
2021-02-03T00:23:00 < Laurenceb> must be broken pulseaudio
2021-02-03T00:23:08 < kakium69> have you fiddled with it?
2021-02-03T00:23:15 < Laurenceb> maybe....
2021-02-03T00:23:19 < Laurenceb> a while ago
2021-02-03T00:23:21 < kakium69> yeah
2021-02-03T00:23:35 < BrainDamage> did you reboot after upgrading the kernel?
2021-02-03T00:23:42 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: yeah
2021-02-03T00:23:55 < BrainDamage> ok, so it's not a module mismatch
2021-02-03T00:23:56 < Laurenceb> prob some error in pulseaudio config file
2021-02-03T00:24:15 < BrainDamage> pulseaudio -k && pulseaudio -vv
2021-02-03T00:24:17 < Laurenceb> tried pulseaudio -k and it wont restart
2021-02-03T00:24:37 < BrainDamage> use -vv to get debug log
2021-02-03T00:24:46 < BrainDamage> -vvvv for even more verbosity
2021-02-03T00:24:59 < Laurenceb> I: [pulseaudio] main.c: Running in system mode: no
2021-02-03T00:24:59 < Laurenceb> E: [pulseaudio] pid.c: Daemon already running.
2021-02-03T00:25:02 < Laurenceb> what the heck
2021-02-03T00:25:05 < karlp> so... rpi people had their dual core shit workingthis longago: http://openocd.zylin.com/#/c/4935/
2021-02-03T00:25:28 < BrainDamage> that's why I said pulseaudio -k && pulseaudio -vv
2021-02-03T00:25:39 < BrainDamage> socket activation makes it respawn immediately
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2021-02-03T00:26:03 < zyp> karlp, heh
2021-02-03T00:26:47 < kakium69> how do I share a file from guest to host without storing it to host?
2021-02-03T00:27:08 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/W7Hibz7M
2021-02-03T00:27:13 < BrainDamage> samba?
2021-02-03T00:27:16 < qyx> sshfs?
2021-02-03T00:27:17 < kakium69> ye
2021-02-03T00:27:28 < kakium69> sshfs sounds even better
2021-02-03T00:28:20 < kakium69> how is the performance with sshfs on modern machine?
2021-02-03T00:29:10 < kakium69> I plant to like share a disk image and boot it as VM from host
2021-02-03T00:29:16 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/aJEbGpKz
2021-02-03T00:29:28 < Laurenceb> ^if I run it as sudo that might explain
2021-02-03T00:29:32 < BrainDamage> D: [pulseaudio] module-udev-detect.c: Ignoring /devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/sound/card29, because marked so.
2021-02-03T00:30:07 < qyx> wat kakium69 
2021-02-03T00:30:17 < qyx> so you have a disk image of your guest on your host
2021-02-03T00:30:26 < qyx> theres is another disk image of a guest on this gues
2021-02-03T00:30:31 < qyx> you want to share it to host
2021-02-03T00:30:35 < qyx> and boot another gues?
2021-02-03T00:30:39 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-03T00:30:52 < kakium69> no nesting
2021-02-03T00:30:53 < BrainDamage> @_@
2021-02-03T00:31:11 < kakium69> or maybe I could nesting it
2021-02-03T00:31:29 < kakium69> then pour files down towards the host
2021-02-03T00:31:43 < BrainDamage> sorry, I meant ಠ_ಠ
2021-02-03T00:31:48 < kakium69> yeah there is like 2 files anyway
2021-02-03T00:32:13 < BrainDamage> unless it's encrypted, you can just mount it
2021-02-03T00:32:17 < zyp> huh, found an l4 discovery, didn't know I had that
2021-02-03T00:32:31 < kakium69> it likelly is BrainDamage
2021-02-03T00:33:42 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: what do you think is the problem?
2021-02-03T00:33:44 < kakium69> yeah LVM + encrypted home
2021-02-03T00:35:00 < qyx> you can do lvm on the host
2021-02-03T00:35:14 < qyx> losetup, pvscan, pvchange -a
2021-02-03T00:35:21 < qyx> luksopen or whatever
2021-02-03T00:35:25 < qyx> and then run from there
2021-02-03T00:35:37 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: pacmd list-cards
2021-02-03T00:36:11 < qyx> (if your volume groups aren't named the same by any chance)
2021-02-03T00:36:27 < Laurenceb> 0 card(s) available.
2021-02-03T00:36:45 < BrainDamage> and aplay -l shows it?
2021-02-03T00:37:14 < Laurenceb> nope
2021-02-03T00:37:18 < Laurenceb> alsamixer does
2021-02-03T00:37:43 < BrainDamage> wut
2021-02-03T00:37:55 < Laurenceb> it looks like a pulseaudio issue?
2021-02-03T00:38:08 < BrainDamage> if aplay -l doesn't show it, it means it's not a hw device
2021-02-03T00:38:16 < Laurenceb> Card: HDA Intel                                      F1:  Help               │
2021-02-03T00:38:16 < Laurenceb> │ Chip: Realtek ALC269 
2021-02-03T00:38:19 < BrainDamage> and pa can only work with hw devices
2021-02-03T00:38:41 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2021-02-03T00:38:43 < BrainDamage> what does aplay -L show?
2021-02-03T00:38:45 < Laurenceb> its owned by root
2021-02-03T00:38:53 < Laurenceb> sudo aplay -l
2021-02-03T00:39:04 < Laurenceb> and its there
2021-02-03T00:39:09 < BrainDamage> are you in the audio group?
2021-02-03T00:39:18 < Laurenceb> presumably not
2021-02-03T00:39:29 < BrainDamage> then add yourself and re-login
2021-02-03T00:39:33 < Laurenceb> k
2021-02-03T00:44:47  * antto mixes Laurenceb into mono 8bit unsigned uncompressed PCM
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2021-02-03T00:45:48 < antto> he couldn't deal with it >:)
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2021-02-03T00:52:19 < Laurenceb> worksd
2021-02-03T00:52:22 < Laurenceb> thanks
2021-02-03T00:52:41 < antto> u can haz sound?
2021-02-03T00:56:32 < Steffanx> A muted blaxter is the best blaxter ;)
2021-02-03T01:01:36 < Laurenceb> muted no more
2021-02-03T01:01:41 < Laurenceb> I own the audio
2021-02-03T01:01:53 < Laurenceb> literally
2021-02-03T01:06:06 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hRb4YRIPrZa8KUX4VSBXQ93JksiZpgkA/view?usp=sharing mint18 ssdimage inside mint19 ssd booted from mint20 host
2021-02-03T01:07:41 < kakium69> tommorow I'll figure out how to pour down the files from these layers to host
2021-02-03T01:11:29  * antto adds baking soda to the kakium69 and runs away
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2021-02-03T02:04:58 < jly> Laurenceb: are you on
2021-02-03T02:05:11 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-02-03T02:06:25 < jly> have you been CHANning?
2021-02-03T02:17:03 < jadew> man.. the stock market is crazy right now
2021-02-03T02:18:05 < jadew> GME crashed, silver crashed
2021-02-03T02:18:46 < jadew> and people are doing the same shit with other stocks
2021-02-03T02:18:47 < englishman> that that reddit pumpndump was gay
2021-02-03T02:18:55 < englishman> i sold on friday for 850% gain
2021-02-03T02:19:03 < jadew> jeez...
2021-02-03T02:20:01 < jadew> I want to buy normal stocks, but I can't get my account activated because there's a huge inrush of people wanting to join the stock market
2021-02-03T02:20:19 < jadew> so they're overwhelmed by new accounts they have to validate
2021-02-03T02:23:28 < jadew> also, the broker I want to use has removed negative balance protection
2021-02-03T02:24:39 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-02-03T02:24:53 < Laurenceb> the two channels from my mono mic arent the same
2021-02-03T02:24:59 < Laurenceb> wtf is the lunix driver doing
2021-02-03T02:25:16 < Laurenceb> it looks like they went through two different ADCs
2021-02-03T02:25:24 < Laurenceb> but its a digital mic so thats impossible
2021-02-03T02:25:36 < Laurenceb> a few lsb of noise
2021-02-03T02:25:58 < jly> install winpros 10
2021-02-03T02:30:41 < Laurenceb> wtf reeeeeeeee
2021-02-03T02:30:45 < Laurenceb> >The sourceforge.net website is temporarily in static offline mode.
2021-02-03T02:31:01 < Laurenceb> and its taken down all the octave repos
2021-02-03T02:39:02 < jly> octave
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2021-02-03T02:58:12 < zyp> intrusive lists, supporting multiple handles: https://godbolt.org/z/a5E7qf
2021-02-03T03:01:14 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/util/intrusive_list.h?id=39b1c8a <- had a similar idea some years ago, but that one had to store a pointer to the object in the handle inside the object
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2021-02-03T04:00:49 < qyx> backing up lisocl2 with a 2x 1 F supercaps is.. probably not the best idea
2021-02-03T04:01:15 < qyx> inrush current during charging is > 200 mA
2021-02-03T04:02:11 < qyx> also their leakage should have been just a few uA
2021-02-03T04:03:02 < qyx> I m at 0.6 mA now
2021-02-03T04:04:00 < qyx> uhm and I cannot reset the board :>
2021-02-03T04:10:08 < qyx> it settled at 340 uA, so about 210 uA of leakage through the caps
2021-02-03T04:11:35 < kakium69> excite
2021-02-03T04:12:54 < kakium69> what is the thing you are building?
2021-02-03T04:13:15 < qyx> second rev of that lora accel
2021-02-03T04:13:30 < kakium69> accel?
2021-02-03T04:13:39 < qyx> accelerometer/inclinometer
2021-02-03T04:16:51 < kakium69> client project?
2021-02-03T04:17:12 < kakium69> what it is used for?
2021-02-03T04:19:32 < kakium69> I think tommorow I will do 4 layer VM nesting
2021-02-03T04:19:57 < kakium69> by using win10 as the host for the whole stack of VMs
2021-02-03T04:24:51 < kakium69> I think grub installation has done something to windows efi so maybe better not atleast run updates via vm
2021-02-03T04:25:16 < kakium69> windows bootloader is not visible anymore to uefi
2021-02-03T04:25:41 < kakium69> just ubuntu visible for both nvme drives
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2021-02-03T04:40:03 < R2COM> is garuda linux good
2021-02-03T04:43:44 < kakium69> apparently
2021-02-03T04:44:02 < kakium69> it looks like hollywood movie effects
2021-02-03T04:44:40 < kakium69> it has kde
2021-02-03T04:45:55 < kakium69> is that kde nowdays o.o
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2021-02-03T08:28:29 < jpa-> qyx: some super caps reach their specified leakage only after having voltage for 24 hours or so
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2021-02-03T11:09:39 < mouseghost> hey why am i banned on telegram group or something
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2021-02-03T11:24:02 < Steffanx> I think some where annoyed by you mouseghost . Apparently there is some generation gap issue. 
2021-02-03T11:24:06 < skz81> <R2COM> is garuda linux good >> is based on Arch, so YES ! ^^
2021-02-03T11:24:13 < Steffanx> A little sad imho but... 
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2021-02-03T11:24:21 < mouseghost> Steffanx, ffs everyone is annoyed with me :(
2021-02-03T11:24:28 < Steffanx> No..
2021-02-03T11:24:32 < mouseghost> old farts and youngsters both
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2021-02-03T11:31:00 < mouseghost> Steffanx, this is very sad :(
2021-02-03T11:31:04 < mouseghost> why is it like that
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2021-02-03T12:21:50 < qyx> jpa-: oh I saw that, I though it means "it worsens in time, but after 24h it is max'd at .."
2021-02-03T12:22:10 < qyx> so the other way around
2021-02-03T12:31:04 < karlp> somehow I missed regs-stepdown.txt last night..
2021-02-03T12:33:42 < zyp> naming could be more consistent
2021-02-03T12:34:01 < karlp> yeah, it's gotten bigger now, might be worth doing some cleanup...
2021-02-03T12:34:13 < karlp> it's what happens when you're just grabbing bits and pieces.
2021-02-03T12:35:17 < karlp> zyp: what's your "intrusive lists" ?
2021-02-03T12:35:20 < karlp> I don't get it
2021-02-03T12:47:42 < zyp> it's a container interface for a linked list where the next-pointer is stored inside the contained object itself, hence intrusive
2021-02-03T12:48:14 < zyp> i.e. the handle is a wrapper type for the next pointer
2021-02-03T12:49:43 < zyp> and since a next-pointer can only be used for one list at a time, and there might be a need to put the same object in multiple lists, it supports multiple handles
2021-02-03T12:53:03 < zyp> the benefit of an intrusive list is that it needs no extra storage -- you put pointers to existing objects into the list, and the storage space needed to store these pointers exists inside the objects
2021-02-03T12:53:38 < zyp> i.e. no allocation/deallocation needed when inserting and removing objects from a list
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2021-02-03T12:56:56 < zyp> I'm planning to use this for tasks: every task gets a handle, and then it can either be put in the scheduler's «ready to run» queue, or in a future's list of tasks to wake up upon completion
2021-02-03T12:59:09 < zyp> and since a list itself can be as simple as a pointer to the first element, I'm effectively getting the ability to have multiple tasks awaiting the same object for free
2021-02-03T13:02:04 < karlp> I'm obviously slow today. gonna do something else instead.
2021-02-03T13:04:05 < zyp> bonus benefit: moving all elements from one list to the next is as simple as swapping a couple of pointers
2021-02-03T13:05:00 < zyp> a->last->next = b->first; a->last = b->last; b->first = b->last = nullptr;
2021-02-03T13:07:08 < mouseghost> hm?
2021-02-03T13:10:37 < zyp> (this is useful when you have a bunch of tasks waiting for the same event and you want to set them all ready at the same time)
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2021-02-03T13:12:48  * karlp just uses bsd queue.h shit normally.
2021-02-03T13:12:59 < karlp> though mostly just lua tables honestly :)
2021-02-03T13:15:30 < zyp> ah, yeah, I guess this would be a C++ take on bsd queues
2021-02-03T13:18:07 -!- Laurenceb70 [2ed0c84b@75.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-03T13:18:21 < Laurenceb70> zoom is turning me into an instagram thot
2021-02-03T13:18:33 < Laurenceb70> I now how filters to give me a chad chin
2021-02-03T13:18:37 < Laurenceb70> *have
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2021-02-03T13:23:33 < Laurenceb70> someone should make a virgin filter to match the chad filter
2021-02-03T13:23:50 < Laurenceb70> lollllll
2021-02-03T13:23:52 < Laurenceb70> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55824936
2021-02-03T13:23:59 < Laurenceb70> >everything is b&
2021-02-03T13:24:33 < Laurenceb70> >28 minutes ago
2021-02-03T13:24:47 < Laurenceb70> keeek I got filters running 30 minutes ago
2021-02-03T13:25:56 < karlp> zyp: silly me presumed that something like bsd queues would have been stuff in stl? 
2021-02-03T13:26:01 < karlp> why do you have to build your own?
2021-02-03T13:27:58 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Laurenceb70
2021-02-03T13:36:51 < jpa-> karlp: stl relies on memory allocation *a lot*
2021-02-03T13:40:46 < karlp> that's where https://www.etlcpp.com/ comes in right?
2021-02-03T13:40:56 < karlp> or you get into wheel building like zyp?
2021-02-03T13:45:38 < mouseghost> wheel building is cool
2021-02-03T13:46:01 < jpa-> cool, i didn't know about etl
2021-02-03T13:47:30 < zyp> same
2021-02-03T13:48:25 < jpa-> karlp: so, what is your favourite lead-free alloy for hand soldering?
2021-02-03T13:52:17 < qyx> I am using this now https://www.broquetas.com/en-product-eco-4-lead-free-solid-wire-for-electronic-soldering.php
2021-02-03T13:52:27 < mouseghost> wo there are different?
2021-02-03T13:52:34 < qyx> (sorry for being karlp)
2021-02-03T13:53:15 < BrainDamage> Sn Cu Ag works for me too
2021-02-03T13:53:30 < BrainDamage> the more the Ag, the better it seeems to work
2021-02-03T13:53:48 < jpa-> yeah, Sn96.5Cu0.5Ag3  is what i have also, works but i do notice the melting point being rather high
2021-02-03T13:54:20 < qyx> it is hard to find anything with lower melting point
2021-02-03T13:54:30 < qyx> 217 °C is pretty low
2021-02-03T13:54:30 < karlp> I only learnt about etl here, how did you guys miss it? :)
2021-02-03T13:54:52 < jpa-> karlp: you're the only one who reads all backlogs :)
2021-02-03T13:55:26 < jpa-> 217°C is quite high compared to the 179°C leaded solder i like :)
2021-02-03T13:58:03 < qyx> I am cheating and using leaded solder for big QFNs
2021-02-03T14:00:39 < jpa-> i'm considering trying out SN42/BI58
2021-02-03T14:00:47 < jpa-> it's rather expensive though
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2021-02-03T14:16:21 < Steffanx> What jpa- .. .what was this embedded stl you have fun with? I thought that was estl
2021-02-03T14:16:28 < Steffanx> *etl
2021-02-03T14:18:09 < Steffanx> The one that was for embedded but NOT the tinier mcu kind of embedded.
2021-02-03T14:21:14 < karlp> we're using 97sc == sac305 == same as yours jpa 
2021-02-03T14:21:27 < karlp> 3 silver 0.5  cu.
2021-02-03T14:21:33 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, it was ustl, which was small and without memory allocations, but *not* for embedded :D
2021-02-03T14:21:42 < jpa-> karlp: ok
2021-02-03T14:22:12 < karlp> I don't solder a lot, I don't have strong opinions on it.
2021-02-03T14:22:24 < karlp> it's lead free, that's enough?
2021-02-03T14:23:00 < jpa-> possibly i'll just need a better soldering iron at some point
2021-02-03T14:23:40 < zyp> I'm not really interested in replacing stl with a third party dependency, just filling in a few features stl lacks
2021-02-03T14:23:41 < jpa-> ts-100 is having trouble with it
2021-02-03T14:24:50 < BrainDamage> zyp: you mean few features stl laks
2021-02-03T14:25:14 < BrainDamage> jpa-: what temp are you using?
2021-02-03T14:25:32 < jpa-> 370-400°C usually
2021-02-03T14:26:33 < BrainDamage> mmm, 325-350 works sufficiently with my ts100, what kind of tip?
2021-02-03T14:26:53 < jpa-> TS-C1
2021-02-03T14:27:12 < jpa-> with TS-BC2 it's better, but too big for many things
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2021-02-03T15:50:05 < englishman> im down with that multicore sac305 just because the flux is so good
2021-02-03T15:50:39 < englishman> https://dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/lt-6320-sell-sheet-loctite-solder-wire-solutionspdf
2021-02-03T15:54:48 < Sadale> Didn't know that loctile made soldering wire
2021-02-03T15:56:45 < englishman> they also make the best paste
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2021-02-03T15:58:41 < Sadale> I'd imagine they'd be very expensive
2021-02-03T16:00:21 < englishman> not at all
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2021-02-03T17:11:57 < kakium69> so apparently efi partition in lunix drive is empty and /boot/efi has been mounted to windows drive efi partition
2021-02-03T17:12:27 < kakium69> so I couldn't do 4layer nested VM
2021-02-03T17:13:03 < kakium69> VM in windows throws EFI shell
2021-02-03T17:13:44 < kakium69> I rather have windows EFI as it was and lunix EFI separatelly on it's own drive
2021-02-03T17:17:27 < Steffanx> Is the snow keeping you in your basement kakium69 ?
2021-02-03T17:17:43 < kakium69> the wind rather
2021-02-03T17:18:22 < kakium69> -15C and 5m/s
2021-02-03T17:18:30 < kakium69> 9m/s gust
2021-02-03T17:23:20 < kakium69> if I change mount point of /boot/efi to linux drive EFI
2021-02-03T17:23:38 < kakium69> and then reinstall bootloader
2021-02-03T17:24:09 < kakium69> does windows EFI partition still give me grub and allow me to enter windows to repair windows efi?
2021-02-03T17:28:26 < PaulFertser> kakium69: basically you can tell what your UEFI implementation can offer you to boot from fixed disks with "efibootmgr -v" on GNU/Linux or "bcdedit" on Windows.
2021-02-03T17:28:44 < PaulFertser> kakium69: and you can choose between all the options in UEFI boot menu
2021-02-03T17:29:11 < PaulFertser> There should be no magic or tricks in this process, fairly straightforward.
2021-02-03T17:29:18 < effractur> if you have 1 esp partion yes
2021-02-03T17:29:23 < effractur> you should not have more then 1
2021-02-03T17:29:39 < kakium69> why not have one per drive
2021-02-03T17:29:44 < PaulFertser> Yes, one ESP per fixed disk.
2021-02-03T17:30:03 < kakium69> I have but mint installer went for windows drive ESP
2021-02-03T17:30:04 < PaulFertser> You can have one per drive.
2021-02-03T17:30:17 < kakium69> it replaced something probs
2021-02-03T17:30:26 < PaulFertser> kakium69: well, you are free to change anything you want. And control the results with efibootmgr or change it.
2021-02-03T17:38:05 < kakium69> does bootx64.efi contain everything for loading grub?
2021-02-03T17:39:08 < effractur> bootx64 is just a wellknown path
2021-02-03T17:39:18 < effractur> so it just copies grub.efi to that location
2021-02-03T17:39:42 < kakium69> so if I change mounting point
2021-02-03T17:39:55 < kakium69> and reinstall bootloader
2021-02-03T17:40:15 < kakium69> that .efi will stay there
2021-02-03T17:41:20 < kakium69> not that it's even a problem because new bootloader intallation will probe windows directory from windows drive esp?
2021-02-03T17:41:44 < kakium69> and I will get windows to boot eather way
2021-02-03T17:41:48 < karlp> bleh, BTheadphones can't play and charge at the same time.
2021-02-03T17:42:28 < kakium69> btheadphones turn audio into shit when 2 direction audio is in use
2021-02-03T17:43:25 < zyp> what are some nice bt headphones nowadays?
2021-02-03T17:43:57 < zyp> I'll probably want some for work eventually
2021-02-03T17:45:28 < Steffanx> Noise cancelling or not?
2021-02-03T17:46:18 < zyp> ANC is nice to have
2021-02-03T17:46:19 < PaulFertser> kakium69: you can even manually copy all the files anyhow you want, and edit efi vars with efibootmgr, there's no magic in installing.
2021-02-03T17:46:24 < effractur> zyp: what OS are you running?
2021-02-03T17:46:37 < Steffanx> Heh karlp . My bt headphones cant play and charge at the same time either, but... it charges so fast its hardly an issue
2021-02-03T17:46:52 < effractur> if it is non linux then the Bose QC35 is nice
2021-02-03T17:46:58 < effractur> on linux its also okay but not for calls
2021-02-03T17:48:38 < zyp> I figure I'll be using linux
2021-02-03T17:48:57 < Steffanx> My Sony wh1000xm3 are nice too. But pricey 
2021-02-03T17:49:37 < Steffanx> But headphones/sound is such personal thing. Some love the Sony and hate the bose. And the other way arounx
2021-02-03T17:50:08 < effractur> yes but the XM3's dont support dual BT sessions
2021-02-03T17:50:15 < effractur> the XM4's do afaik
2021-02-03T17:50:33 < effractur> so i got my laptop and phone linked
2021-02-03T17:50:43 < effractur> and then my phone rings or my laptop get a call
2021-02-03T17:50:45 < effractur> it auto switches
2021-02-03T17:50:49 < englishman> the xm4 were on sale over xmas, were a great price
2021-02-03T17:50:55 < englishman> now not so much
2021-02-03T17:51:40 < Steffanx> effractur: thats like a total nonissue for md
2021-02-03T17:51:57 < Steffanx> My phone never rings :D
2021-02-03T17:52:07 < englishman> boomer problems
2021-02-03T17:52:35 < Steffanx> Imagine effractur being younger than us, englishman 
2021-02-03T17:53:07 < effractur> well mine also never but i got my music on my phone
2021-02-03T17:53:15 < effractur> but if i get a call from work its on my laptpo
2021-02-03T17:53:30 < zyp> since it's for work, something like this looks interesting: https://www.jabra.com/business/office-headsets/jabra-evolve/jabra-evolve2-85
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2021-02-03T17:53:37 < zyp> bit pricy
2021-02-03T17:54:04 < englishman> wow yeah
2021-02-03T17:54:14 < Steffanx> Can you move the microphone?
2021-02-03T17:54:21 < Steffanx> If not. .. meh
2021-02-03T17:54:24 < englishman> about 2x price of the xm4 when they were on sale.
2021-02-03T17:54:41 < zyp> Steffanx, apparently it folds away when not in use
2021-02-03T17:56:39 < Steffanx> But damn indeed. And I thought I paid a lot for my xm3 
2021-02-03T18:10:36 < BrainDamage> all circumaural headphones after 1 h or so make my ears sweltering
2021-02-03T18:13:06 < BrainDamage> also, lol @ 97% noise reduction, because if they wrote it in db like everyone else you'd notice it's only 15dB noise suppression
2021-02-03T18:13:26 < englishman> my sennheisers did as well until i got some big smoofy ear cups which were about half the cost of the headphones themselves
2021-02-03T18:13:59 < BrainDamage> vs the run-out-the-mill headphone with noise suppression that does 10
2021-02-03T18:30:18 < kakium69> drive with efi or efi partition doesn't need any flags or such?
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2021-02-03T18:35:28 < kakium69> so there is no fstab anymore
2021-02-03T18:39:29 < Lux> anc is useless anyway, except if you have some loud monotonous noise
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2021-02-03T18:42:32 < BrainDamage> air conditioning fits the bill, as well as transportation noise
2021-02-03T18:48:39 < kakium69> PaulFertser: does mount point of /boot/efi depend on where the kernel was booted from?
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2021-02-03T18:51:23 < kakium69> will see
2021-02-03T18:52:35 < BrainDamage> if you don't have fstab, then you either don't have the efi esp mounted, or it's using systemd mount files
2021-02-03T18:53:51 < BrainDamage> the root partitition doesn't need a entry if the kernel resides in the same partition
2021-02-03T19:03:12 < kakium69> I don't have fstab but currently I have esp mounted from windows drive
2021-02-03T19:08:31 < kakium69> I wonder where I can find apt hook that involves updating grub
2021-02-03T19:08:52 < kakium69> I kinda want to see what it calls
2021-02-03T19:09:52 < kakium69> i think it calls systemd
2021-02-03T19:21:30 < kakium69> no
2021-02-03T19:22:09 < kakium69>  /etc/kernel/postinst.d/zz-update-grub
2021-02-03T19:22:24 < kakium69> it calls update-grub
2021-02-03T19:25:59 < kakium69> it seems grub has nothing to do with physical partition mounted to /boot/efi
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2021-02-03T19:51:12 < kakium69> interstings
2021-02-03T19:51:15 < kakium69> I didn't know 2 partitions could be mounted to same point
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2021-02-03T19:57:40 < kakium69> so I used tool called boot-repair
2021-02-03T19:57:48 < kakium69> did the trick
2021-02-03T20:15:24 < Laurenceb> argg stupid work shittt
2021-02-03T20:15:30 < Laurenceb> over 9000 video chat apps
2021-02-03T20:15:50 < Laurenceb> does anyone know how the hell microsoft teams works?
2021-02-03T20:16:04 < Laurenceb> >someone has already set up your organisation
2021-02-03T20:16:07 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-02-03T20:16:23 < Laurenceb> microshaft is worse than lunix
2021-02-03T20:16:47 < Laurenceb> >Ask your admin to get you started with Teams
2021-02-03T20:16:49 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2021-02-03T20:33:31 < kakium69> but I couldn't restore windows ESP
2021-02-03T20:33:40 < kakium69> it just has grub now forever
2021-02-03T20:34:07 < kakium69> ofc uefi lets me pass that and boot to windows directly
2021-02-03T20:36:17 < PaulFertser> How can UEFI boot windows directly without windows EFI bootloader on ESP?
2021-02-03T20:38:51 < kakium69> it's there
2021-02-03T20:39:01 < kakium69> under windows
2021-02-03T20:39:19 < kakium69> efi/windows/boot or so
2021-02-03T20:40:11 < kakium69> but stuff under efi/boot has like timestamps from yesterday so those are grub thingies
2021-02-03T20:40:57 < kakium69> apparently recovery doesn't touch those
2021-02-03T20:41:18 < BrainDamage> grub has the binary code to be executed in efi, and configuration, etc in /boot
2021-02-03T20:41:47 < kakium69> hey I forgot the simplest search "remove dualboot"
2021-02-03T20:43:16 < Laurenceb> lol microshart teams works with random email
2021-02-03T20:43:23 < Laurenceb> this makes perfect sense /s
2021-02-03T20:44:58 < Laurenceb> >loading microsoft teams
2021-02-03T20:45:10 < Laurenceb> for ten minutes each time you make the simplest change
2021-02-03T20:45:12 < kakium69> the rationale is that stuff like grub might live in /boot so don't make dualbooters mad
2021-02-03T20:45:15 < Laurenceb> yup its microsoft
2021-02-03T20:45:49 < kakium69> or even worse.. wipe veracrypt from esp partition
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2021-02-03T21:02:33 < qyx> re: leakage, old 470u/16V ~11 uA
2021-02-03T21:02:43 < qyx> (like 10y old china-made)
2021-02-03T21:02:58 < qyx> recent 680u/10V ~2 uA
2021-02-03T21:03:11 < qyx> polymer 100u/16V ~3.5 uA
2021-02-03T21:04:07 < qyx> and the supercap, still waiting until it charges to see
2021-02-03T21:05:09 < qyx> maybe the supercap balancing circuit is the thing consuming power
2021-02-03T21:06:06 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/09Plm/Screenshot_2021-02-03_20-05-50.png
2021-02-03T21:11:34 < Laurenceb> supercaps are weird
2021-02-03T21:11:44 < Laurenceb> leakage decays for days at full charge
2021-02-03T21:12:45 < Laurenceb> teams is shit compared to zoom
2021-02-03T21:13:00 < Laurenceb> lame video features and tons of weird bloat
2021-02-03T21:13:26 < Laurenceb> also makes muh lunix desktop look like windows 10
2021-02-03T21:13:35 < mawk> teams make my cpu go 400% on linux
2021-02-03T21:13:37 < mawk> it's mega shitty
2021-02-03T21:13:53 < mawk> even when no call is playing
2021-02-03T21:13:55 < qyx> I was able to log in, it ok about 5 minutes
2021-02-03T21:13:57 < mawk> which is the worst part
2021-02-03T21:14:08 < antto> it's probably digging coinz
2021-02-03T21:14:12 < mawk> it's just because it's some stupid anti-optimized electron shit
2021-02-03T21:14:14 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-03T21:14:53 < mawk> >Anti-optimization is a novel concept popularized by NodeJS developers following the social justice ideal of "bloated is beautiful".
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2021-02-03T21:20:53 < Laurenceb> lolllll
2021-02-03T21:20:56 < Laurenceb> accurate
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2021-02-03T21:21:09 < Laurenceb> zoom just works
2021-02-03T21:22:02 < Laurenceb> zoom has filters so I can act like a thot
2021-02-03T21:30:40 < mawk> lol
2021-02-03T21:30:59 < karlp> yeah, teams is the the sort of crap that gets dropped on people because someone in marketting wanted an excel license, and before you know it you have sharepoint and teams
2021-02-03T21:31:12 < karlp> and it's shit,but it's just workable enouigh that nothing else gets used.
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2021-02-03T21:37:33 < Steffanx> No zoom was great...
2021-02-03T21:39:55 < Steffanx> Teams on windows works fine... the chat could be better but the video stuff is fine
2021-02-03T21:40:49 < BrainDamage> we have a saying here: revolutions happen only when people are hungry
2021-02-03T21:41:05 < mawk> are you hungry?
2021-02-03T21:41:23 < BrainDamage> it's to be read as: people will tolerate a lot of shit, as long as it somehow works
2021-02-03T21:45:22 < Steffanx> Its not a case of somehow works. It works.
2021-02-03T21:45:41 < Steffanx> Maybe not on lunix, but thats irrelevant ;)
2021-02-03T21:48:23 < mawk> you're irrelevant Steffanx 
2021-02-03T21:48:27 < mawk> linux is the future
2021-02-03T21:48:29 < mawk> you're the old past
2021-02-03T21:49:12 < Steffanx> Yeah, the last few days i read nothing but: muh audio doesnt work, muh BT headset doesnt work. Much PA drama.
2021-02-03T21:49:25 < mawk> that's because the problem is Laurenceb 
2021-02-03T21:49:31 < Steffanx> and mr kp.
2021-02-03T21:52:10 < Laurenceb> BGT60LTR11AIP looks pretty hawt
2021-02-03T21:53:09 < mawk> ball trip ?
2021-02-03T21:53:36 < Laurenceb> https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/evaluation-boards/demo-bgt60ltr11aip/#!documents
2021-02-03T21:54:35 < kakium69> what happens if 2 of those radars meet?
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2021-02-03T21:57:04 < Laurenceb> ur self driving car runs you over
2021-02-03T21:57:31 < kakium69> ys
2021-02-03T21:57:34 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-03T22:08:48 < Laurenceb> looks like narrowband Rx
2021-02-03T22:08:58 < Laurenceb> so no really fancy radar :(
2021-02-03T22:09:04 < Laurenceb> no full datasheet yet
2021-02-03T22:23:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vqSX40seqA
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2021-02-03T22:48:51 < Laurenceb> hah AD made a pro device
2021-02-03T22:49:05 < Laurenceb> >RF signal bandwidth: 250 MHz
2021-02-03T22:50:21 < Laurenceb> https://www.analog.com/en/education/education-library/videos/5489321821001.html
2021-02-03T22:50:32 < Laurenceb> double chin fat bastard guy has a nice radar
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2021-02-03T23:31:56 < catphish> i should be playing with NB-IoT soon, this sounds fun
2021-02-03T23:33:46 < Laurenceb> BGT24LTR11N16 looks hoxorable
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2021-02-04T00:07:33 < karlp> Steffanx: what were my linux problems recently?
2021-02-04T00:10:15 < Steffanx> Bt headphones or something 
2021-02-04T00:12:29 < karlp> oh,yeah,
2021-02-04T00:12:31 < karlp> that was fun.
2021-02-04T00:12:53 < karlp> got bt headphones to get more experience with bt.
2021-02-04T00:25:38 < qyx> hm, removed that cap balancing, it was the cause of high consumption
2021-02-04T00:25:48 < karlp> what was that cap balancingopamp thing trying to do?
2021-02-04T00:26:10 < karlp> you wanted 1F at a higher voltage right? hence the series?
2021-02-04T00:26:19 < qyx> pushing the middle point to the middle
2021-02-04T00:26:20 < karlp> and you were trying to hold the voltage in the middle with the 1M resistors?
2021-02-04T00:26:28 < karlp> what happenswithout "balancing" ?
2021-02-04T00:26:28 < qyx> yes + follower
2021-02-04T00:26:42 < qyx> idk, they say don't use series supercaps wihtout balancing :>
2021-02-04T00:26:52 < karlp> they don't say why?
2021-02-04T00:27:18 < qyx> I didn't investigate, probably the same reason as for li* cells
2021-02-04T00:27:37 < qyx> manufacturing tolerances and stuff, causing runaway when charging/discharging
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2021-02-04T00:30:29 < kakium69> yeah I need to forget 4layer nested virtualization
2021-02-04T00:30:34 < qyx> kakium69: However, when two
2021-02-04T00:30:34 < qyx> capacitors are in series, an imbalance in the leakage current
2021-02-04T00:30:34 < qyx> between the cells could result in one of the supercapacitors
2021-02-04T00:30:35 < qyx> exceeding its rated voltage.
2021-02-04T00:30:43 < qyx> karlp: ^
2021-02-04T00:30:47 < kakium69>  yes
2021-02-04T00:31:03 < kakium69> you need additional circuits to overcome that problem
2021-02-04T00:31:27 < kakium69> and those are easily in microamps
2021-02-04T00:32:40 < kakium69> unless you really undercharge them and use zeners
2021-02-04T00:33:55 < kakium69> so virtualbox in guest said that /dev/sda is inaccessable
2021-02-04T00:34:02 < kakium69> indeed it is
2021-02-04T00:34:41 < kakium69> and that is where I leave it and boot to linux to pull my files from old systems
2021-02-04T00:35:49 < kakium69> any sticker recommends to new laptop to add some cool?
2021-02-04T00:40:14 < kakium69> PaulFertser, BrainDamage: I used "boot-repair" for installing grub to right partition and now it mounts the right partition too after boot. Removed grub from windows esp manually and replaced bootx64.efi with windows one. Thanks for the tips!
2021-02-04T00:43:23 < ColdKeyboard> Do you have to make any modification to ST-Link portion of the Nucleo board once you cut it off (separate Nucleo and STLink portion)?
2021-02-04T00:43:46 < ColdKeyboard> I'm having a weird issue where I can see the programmer, but I can't connect to the device. Moving wires from STLink to another programmer, it works fine :\
2021-02-04T00:44:26 < karlp> umm, there might be some jumpers till iirc
2021-02-04T00:45:06 < ColdKeyboard> I pulled off the jumpers for Nucleo (Two that say ON->Nucleo, OFF->STLink)
2021-02-04T00:45:15 < ColdKeyboard> The 0R I think are left as default
2021-02-04T00:45:59 < karlp> I mean, I've onyl got one cut board, and I can't remmeber anymore if anything was done to it.
2021-02-04T00:46:09 < karlp> normally I just leave it in place and pull off the jumpers
2021-02-04T00:46:21 < karlp> but I have a vague recall of some weirdness with reset floating or something
2021-02-04T00:47:00 < ColdKeyboard> Right, it's pulled up on the target board, obviously. And for jumpers I'm not sure if I should add 0R, or disconnect or what not...
2021-02-04T00:47:13 < ColdKeyboard> Datasheet is kind of vauge about it or I don't understand it
2021-02-04T01:00:08 < karlp> heh
2021-02-04T01:00:49 < karlp> I noticed earlier that in current kicad, .txt files will show up in the project editor: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Vjr5m.png
2021-02-04T01:00:57 < karlp> but. if you double click on them, it uses system $EDITOR
2021-02-04T01:01:03 < karlp> so tries to pop a vim....
2021-02-04T01:01:06 < karlp> good one.
2021-02-04T01:01:38 < karlp> ok, no, it has a preference for it, but it defautled to vim?!
2021-02-04T01:08:28 < ColdKeyboard> https://community.st.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/renditionDownload?rendition=THUMB720BY480&versionId=0680X000006qKh9&operationContext=CHATTER&contentId=05T0X00000NPEUN&page=0
2021-02-04T01:08:54 < ColdKeyboard> Huh, so R9 is not populated on board, but wouldn't you need it in order to detect VDD_T
2021-02-04T01:09:44 < qyx> speaking of kicad, is 5.99 compatible with 5.1.x?
2021-02-04T01:09:57 < qyx> (semver says yes)
2021-02-04T01:12:01 < Steffanx> Try it?
2021-02-04T01:12:22 < karlp> upwards only
2021-02-04T01:12:27 < karlp> it's made of win
2021-02-04T01:12:40 < karlp> but you will get new files saved in new format that aren't backward compatible
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2021-02-04T02:11:53 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eiZCC7DKq9WLRKc82-FZdNIilbEuSBPw/view?usp=sharing what I found under 3levels of virtualization
2021-02-04T02:12:07 < kakium69> my autisming folder
2021-02-04T02:13:41 < kakium69> I mean when I found a washing machine manual I wanted to laught
2021-02-04T02:17:17 < kakium69> https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=hy4pSVjLKFw musics
2021-02-04T02:24:16 < kakium69> when I was young I though I need to have a folder with thousands of datasheets
2021-02-04T02:25:32 < kakium69> now I know I need the minimal number of datasheets and even then remove them after use
2021-02-04T02:27:45 < kakium69> or leave them in project folder
2021-02-04T02:27:58 < kakium69> which ever way
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2021-02-04T02:56:18 < mawk> did you really film your screen kakium69 
2021-02-04T02:56:21 < mawk> aren't you ashamed
2021-02-04T02:56:26 < kakium69> no
2021-02-04T02:56:37 < kakium69> I mean yes I did
2021-02-04T02:56:42 < kakium69> and no I'm not
2021-02-04T02:56:59 < mawk> use SimpleScreenRecorder
2021-02-04T02:57:02 < mawk> it works very well
2021-02-04T02:57:11 < kakium69> just turn capture on from virtualbox?
2021-02-04T02:57:24 < mawk> virtualbox is for pussies
2021-02-04T02:57:31 < mawk> real men run on real hardware
2021-02-04T02:57:34 < mawk> because that's more real
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2021-02-04T02:58:15 < mawk> look in datasheet ColdKeyboard they say it all
2021-02-04T02:58:17 < BrainDamage> you mean on x86, that's already jit compiled in firmware to a risc processor?
2021-02-04T02:58:20 < mawk> you have to cut solder bridges and stuff
2021-02-04T02:58:40 < mawk> is it really jit though
2021-02-04T02:58:56 < mawk> jit has this strong notion of optimizing hot codepaths using inferred types and so on
2021-02-04T02:59:03 < mawk> maybe not always
2021-02-04T02:59:31 < mawk> I would expect microinstruction decoding happens with some kind of fast hardware
2021-02-04T03:00:37 < BrainDamage> part of the codepath is hw, part is firmware, some instructions that translate directly are priviledged
2021-02-04T03:00:52 < BrainDamage> rest get shuffled into a dedicated cpu
2021-02-04T03:01:42 < BrainDamage> x86 is such a clusterfuck
2021-02-04T03:02:02 < mawk> yes
2021-02-04T03:02:31 < mawk> I like especially the backwards compatibility all the way back to 80186
2021-02-04T03:02:44 < mawk> that sure is the road to high perf
2021-02-04T03:03:08 < BrainDamage> why, aren't you running 16 bit machine code regularly?
2021-02-04T03:04:34 < mawk> when I was doing this x86 kernel I added 16 bit support
2021-02-04T03:04:38 < mawk> or more or less had to
2021-02-04T03:04:52 < mawk> to be able to call the "video bios" routines to set up graphics card without having to deep dive into drivers
2021-02-04T03:05:21 < mawk> aka VBE/vesa functions
2021-02-04T03:05:32 < mawk> but that only works in qemu, real life graphics card never implemented this crap
2021-02-04T03:05:37 < mawk> because vesa had expensive licensing
2021-02-04T03:05:48 < mawk> or maybe not for that reason, but anyway it's nowhere to be found
2021-02-04T03:07:09 < mawk> the procedure to come from 64 bits to 16 bits is pretty fun
2021-02-04T03:07:27 < mawk> you need to do 64 bits -> 64 bits 32 bits compatibility mode -> 32 bits paged mode -> 16 bits paged mode -> 16 bits segmented mode
2021-02-04T03:07:35 < mawk> then you can make the bios call
2021-02-04T03:07:39 < mawk> then climb up the chain in the reverse order
2021-02-04T03:07:53 < mawk> and of course if you were doing multicore you have to halt all the other cores
2021-02-04T03:11:52 < mawk> I forgot a step it's 32 bits paged mode -> 32 bits segmented mode -> 16 bits segmented mode -> 16 bits real mode
2021-02-04T03:11:56 < mawk> there's no 16 bits paged mode
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2021-02-04T03:12:05 < mawk> who needs page when you have only 1MiB of memory
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2021-02-04T04:04:35 < mawk> when are you doing your own BrainDamage ?
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2021-02-04T04:06:03 < R2COM> so did someone else hear about garuda linux or no
2021-02-04T04:06:03 < mawk> go to bed R2COM it's 3 am
2021-02-04T04:06:18 < R2COM> nah
2021-02-04T04:06:32 < R2COM> garuda linux has feature of state snapshots in grub
2021-02-04T04:06:41 < mawk> BTRFS is a modern copy on write (CoW) filesystem for Linux aimed at implementing advanced features while also focusing on fault tolerance, repair and easy administration.
2021-02-04T04:06:44 < R2COM> so if update went bad etc, you can right from grub load to pre-update state
2021-02-04T04:06:45 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-02-04T04:06:48 < mawk> I wouldn't exactly say "fault tolerance"
2021-02-04T04:06:52 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-04T04:07:09 < R2COM> do you think its cool feature i described?
2021-02-04T04:07:14 < R2COM> and that btrfs ?
2021-02-04T04:07:26 < mawk> I use btrfs
2021-02-04T04:07:28 < mawk> already
2021-02-04T04:07:30 < mawk> but on debian
2021-02-04T04:07:35 < R2COM> its some modern shit yea?
2021-02-04T04:07:38 < mawk> yeah it's a cool feature
2021-02-04T04:07:44 < R2COM> is it > ntfs?
2021-02-04T04:07:47 < mawk> modern I don't know, but since it's quite experimental I guess we can say modern
2021-02-04T04:07:50 < mawk> sure
2021-02-04T04:07:59 < mawk> snapshots and RAID are cool features of btrfs
2021-02-04T04:08:05 < mawk> and it's copy on write 
2021-02-04T04:08:10 < mawk> when you cp a file, it's instantaneous
2021-02-04T04:08:12 < R2COM> does that grub snapshot cuz of btrs?
2021-02-04T04:08:13 < mawk> for instance
2021-02-04T04:08:16 < mawk> yes
2021-02-04T04:08:20 < mawk> they make use of it
2021-02-04T04:08:26 < R2COM> hmm
2021-02-04T04:08:28 < mawk> but you can make any fs snapshottable by having it live under lvm
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2021-02-04T04:08:31 < R2COM> also, why you use debian?
2021-02-04T04:08:37 < mawk> but then the snapshots are at the block device level and not file level
2021-02-04T04:08:45 < mawk> because I've always used debian
2021-02-04T04:08:52 < mawk> since I'm 9 or 10
2021-02-04T04:09:01 < mawk> go conservatism right
2021-02-04T04:09:14 < R2COM> what you think of arch linux base?
2021-02-04T04:09:21 < mawk> nothing good
2021-02-04T04:09:26 < mawk> I'm not a fan of rolling release distros
2021-02-04T04:09:53 < R2COM> mainly cuz of that?
2021-02-04T04:10:06 < R2COM> you prefer quantized updateS?
2021-02-04T04:12:05 < mawk> arch linux is all about being rolling release
2021-02-04T04:12:13 < mawk> yes I prefer stable distributions
2021-02-04T04:13:37 < mawk> anyway the distro isn't really important for me
2021-02-04T04:13:52 < mawk> since I compile myself a lot of stuff
2021-02-04T04:14:12 < R2COM> what you think of using arch linux for eda setup?
2021-02-04T04:16:28 < mawk> it's probably not the best choice to have archlinux for anything that has "setup" in the name
2021-02-04T04:16:41 < mawk> since that implies that the machine needs to stay stable for long periods of time with running the same softwares
2021-02-04T04:16:54 < mawk> which is a perfect job for stable distributions, and there's nothing as stable as debian
2021-02-04T04:17:31 < R2COM> but man i liked that visual of garuda lol
2021-02-04T04:17:44 < mawk> yes that's how they trap you
2021-02-04T04:17:47 < R2COM> and...wouldnt its snapshots compensate for that rolling release stuff?
2021-02-04T04:17:49 < mawk> like with that chinese spyware distro
2021-02-04T04:17:51 < mawk> deepin or something
2021-02-04T04:17:59 < R2COM> oh
2021-02-04T04:18:04 < R2COM> btw, garuda = India
2021-02-04T04:18:09 < mawk> well yes having a kevlar vest compensates for walking through a shooting range
2021-02-04T04:18:15 < mawk> but you don't want to do it in the first place
2021-02-04T04:18:19 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-04T04:18:23 < mawk> ah right that sounded indian
2021-02-04T04:18:50 < R2COM> is debian using btrfs?
2021-02-04T04:18:59 < mawk> it's using whatever you tell it to use
2021-02-04T04:19:04 < mawk> ext4 by default
2021-02-04T04:19:06 < R2COM> during setup right?
2021-02-04T04:19:09 < mawk> yes
2021-02-04T04:19:34 < R2COM> why would they "trap" into OS by looks?
2021-02-04T04:20:00 < mawk> that's something I noticed, all weird small distros get users because they look good
2021-02-04T04:20:29 < R2COM> there were some comments about good performance of garuda
2021-02-04T04:20:33 < R2COM> is performance of debian good?
2021-02-04T04:20:34 < R2COM> tops?
2021-02-04T04:20:48 < R2COM> like the way how it runs stuff and uses ram etc?
2021-02-04T04:21:05 < mawk> it's all linux anyway, so all distros are mostly similar in how they run
2021-02-04T04:21:17 < mawk> I don't expect wild performance variations
2021-02-04T04:21:45 < kakium69> package manager is different
2021-02-04T04:21:58 < R2COM> what package manager is in debian?
2021-02-04T04:22:00 < mawk> APT best package manager of all times
2021-02-04T04:22:01 < kakium69> apt
2021-02-04T04:22:02 < mawk> apt
2021-02-04T04:22:06 < kakium69> apt
2021-02-04T04:22:09 < mawk> tpa
2021-02-04T04:22:20 < R2COM> and how fedora compares to debian?
2021-02-04T04:22:25 < mawk> when you read "apt" out loud in french it means "has farted"
2021-02-04T04:22:53 < mawk> it's probably a bit similar but less stable, I don't know
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2021-02-04T04:23:14 < R2COM> so you really happy with debian, and think its OK as a setup for EDA desktop?
2021-02-04T04:23:25 < mawk> fedora is redhat's device to get users to betatest their software for them
2021-02-04T04:23:47 < mawk> yes for having a stable machine to run the same software for years I would use debian
2021-02-04T04:23:57 < mawk> you will get updates for your debian version for a long time
2021-02-04T04:24:07 < mawk> and you can even upgrade to newer debian version pretty easily
2021-02-04T04:24:10 < R2COM> you would generally avoid small distros?
2021-02-04T04:24:15 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-04T04:24:21 < mawk> yeah you get obviously less support
2021-02-04T04:24:26 < R2COM> debian origin: global
2021-02-04T04:24:40 < R2COM> looking at distrowatch about it
2021-02-04T04:24:42 < kakium69> there is 1000 small distros per one big distro
2021-02-04T04:24:56 < R2COM> what about Manjaro linux?
2021-02-04T04:25:00 < R2COM> it comes from your motherland mawk
2021-02-04T04:25:04 < R2COM> it has your blood
2021-02-04T04:25:33 < R2COM> also arch based tho..
2021-02-04T04:26:20 < mawk> lol
2021-02-04T04:27:00 < mawk> manjaro is like arch for beginners
2021-02-04T04:27:30 < mawk> if you want stability you will have to find either debian-based (debian, ubuntu) or redhat based (centos, fedora)
2021-02-04T04:27:37 < mawk> so just take debian
2021-02-04T04:27:43 < mawk> or ubuntu if you feel like a grandma
2021-02-04T04:28:31 < R2COM> seems like yeah
2021-02-04T04:28:36 < R2COM> what about cool GUI for it?
2021-02-04T04:28:40 < R2COM> you can make it any or?
2021-02-04T04:28:48 < mawk> yes I use KDE it looks good
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2021-02-04T04:29:10 < mawk> wait I sent only a partial screen
2021-02-04T04:29:25 < mawk> better
2021-02-04T04:29:26 < R2COM> all i see is 1 screen
2021-02-04T04:29:28 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-04T04:29:45 < R2COM> hm
2021-02-04T04:29:59 < R2COM> would you please show 2 things
2021-02-04T04:30:02 < R2COM> say folder explorer
2021-02-04T04:30:06 < R2COM> + some app with some controls
2021-02-04T04:30:09 < R2COM> slide bars etc
2021-02-04T04:30:11 < R2COM> :P
2021-02-04T04:30:31 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210204033025614.png
2021-02-04T04:30:54 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210204033052042.png
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2021-02-04T04:31:35 < R2COM> its nice, nothing bleeding edge tho
2021-02-04T04:31:48 < mawk> you can change themes
2021-02-04T04:31:57 < mawk> I just kept the basic one in dark mode
2021-02-04T04:32:38 < R2COM> not resource hungry either?
2021-02-04T04:32:44 < R2COM> say if you run nothing, its idling cpu ?
2021-02-04T04:33:49 < R2COM> i see theres only 1 download for it
2021-02-04T04:33:54 < R2COM> i guess just that 64 bit rite
2021-02-04T04:34:49 < mawk> yes 64 bits
2021-02-04T04:34:54 < mawk> but you don't have to download
2021-02-04T04:35:07 < mawk> just choose kde at debian installation
2021-02-04T04:35:21 < R2COM> yeah but one needs to download debian rite
2021-02-04T04:35:23 < R2COM> to install
2021-02-04T04:35:25 < mawk> yes
2021-02-04T04:35:29 < mawk> take debian dvd
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2021-02-04T04:35:58 < mawk> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-10.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
2021-02-04T04:36:10 < mawk> dvd with drivers and all
2021-02-04T04:36:15 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-04T04:36:16 < R2COM> also
2021-02-04T04:36:17 < R2COM> wow
2021-02-04T04:36:21 < R2COM> you heard that PLASMA kde?
2021-02-04T04:36:32 < R2COM> its like kde on steroids or what
2021-02-04T04:36:35 < mawk> yes it's the same thing
2021-02-04T04:36:36 < R2COM> like improved style?
2021-02-04T04:36:44 < mawk> it's the latest version of kde
2021-02-04T04:36:50 < mawk> the one I showed
2021-02-04T04:37:02 < mawk> I guess it designates the UI in particular
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2021-02-04T04:37:41 < mawk> 033644 <mawk> it's the latest version of kde
2021-02-04T04:37:41 < mawk> 033650 <mawk> the one I showed
2021-02-04T04:37:41 < mawk> 033702 <mawk> I guess it designates the UI in particular
2021-02-04T04:37:46 < R2COM1> ahh
2021-02-04T04:37:57 < mawk> for resources it takes a bit more than gnome or other but not that much
2021-02-04T04:38:01 < mawk> today's computer are good enough
2021-02-04T04:38:27 < R2COM1> i have one laptop from 2014 which already chokes by win10
2021-02-04T04:38:34 < R2COM1> even that one with latest kde would do better
2021-02-04T04:38:37 < R2COM1> i assume
2021-02-04T04:38:39 < mawk> ah
2021-02-04T04:38:41 < mawk> yes probably
2021-02-04T04:38:51 < R2COM1> but this one i plan to install on my main PC
2021-02-04T04:38:56 < R2COM1> however, of course im not dumping win10
2021-02-04T04:38:58 < R2COM1> so
2021-02-04T04:39:11 < R2COM1> what i think is, can i buy one more SSD and get debian on it?
2021-02-04T04:39:18 < mawk> just reduce windows partition size and you can install side by side
2021-02-04T04:39:20 < R2COM1> and do dual boot between win10 ssd or debian ssd?
2021-02-04T04:39:26 < mawk> or get a new drive yes
2021-02-04T04:39:34 < R2COM1> im afraid to fuck things up in case somethjing goes wrong
2021-02-04T04:39:43 < mawk> you can always recover
2021-02-04T04:39:54 < R2COM1> so that, say linux got f'ed up, i can just unplug that SSD and put bios to boot back only from win10 ssd
2021-02-04T04:39:56 < mawk> make a windows install usb stick just in case
2021-02-04T04:40:01 < mawk> to recover windows bootloader
2021-02-04T04:40:04 < R2COM1> ok
2021-02-04T04:40:05 < mawk> but it won't be need
2021-02-04T04:40:24 < mawk> and anyway yes you can choose in bios what to boot to
2021-02-04T04:40:25 < R2COM1> but i guess its still better to buy separate 500GB SSD just for Debian
2021-02-04T04:40:41 < mawk> that depends on the size of the porn collection you will have
2021-02-04T04:40:47 < R2COM1> can i do it and do dual boot between win10 ssd or debian ssd?
2021-02-04T04:40:53 < mawk> yes
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2021-02-04T04:41:22 < mawk> you can do whatever you want with hard drives, have two os on 1 drive, 2 os on 2 drives, 1 os on 2 drives, etc
2021-02-04T04:41:59 < mawk> the last one is called RAID 0
2021-02-04T04:42:17 < mawk>  I have to go it's 4am almost here
2021-02-04T04:42:23 < R2COM1> cya 
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2021-02-04T04:49:22 < kakium69> you can try stuff in virtualbox
2021-02-04T04:51:35 < kakium69> dynamic size virtual disk doesn't need much actual space
2021-02-04T05:01:56 < kakium69> I have linux on bootable nvme but I plan mainly use it via virtualbox
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2021-02-04T05:07:06 < kakium69> I think by using virtio-net instead of network card emulation might give massive host<->guest performance for files, xserver and shit
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2021-02-04T05:22:03 < R2COM> i know i can try
2021-02-04T05:22:08 < R2COM> but nothing to try honestly
2021-02-04T05:22:15 < R2COM> if i selected ill go with it
2021-02-04T05:22:24 < R2COM> and then i wont need to spend extra 1-2 cores on VM
2021-02-04T05:22:31 < R2COM> just use all full power of my CPU on OS
2021-02-04T05:22:57 < R2COM> my MB is kinda old, no nVME
2021-02-04T05:23:03 < R2COM> ill buy sata6 ssd
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2021-02-04T05:56:00 < R2COM> i have some confusion about nvme
2021-02-04T05:56:12 < R2COM> if my MB doesnt have it but i got PCIE 3.0 x16
2021-02-04T05:56:17 < R2COM> i cant use tthis right": https://www.amazon.com/YATENG-Controller-Expansion-Card-Support-Converter/dp/B07JJTVGZM
2021-02-04T05:56:29 < R2COM> or this one can plug in longer, x16 as well (according to pics)
2021-02-04T05:57:22 < R2COM> or wait
2021-02-04T05:57:25 < R2COM> id rather use this:
2021-02-04T05:57:26 < R2COM> https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-NVMe-PCIe-Aluminum-EC-PCIE/dp/B084GDY2PW/ref=pd_lpo_147_t_2/138-7748464-1829146?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B084GDY2PW&pd_rd_r=b131c242-5af4-4941-8dff-c438292cb5e3&pd_rd_w=7HC3p&pd_rd_wg=aHfU7&pf_rd_p=16b28406-aa34-451d-8a2e-b3930ada000c&pf_rd_r=KBHK7CMYAJE48DRFHHV5&refRID=KBHK7CMYAJE48DRFHHV5&th=1
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2021-02-04T06:47:05 < R2COM> i wont need heatsink
2021-02-04T07:15:10 < jpa-> R2COM: yeah, should work, though depending on bios it possibly won't boot from it
2021-02-04T07:36:16 < R2COM> https://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2887055&mpage=2
2021-02-04T07:36:28 < R2COM> this page shows some dude saying that it boots from x79 or x99
2021-02-04T07:36:41 < R2COM> similar brand nvme booted for him from x99 ftw (which is MB i have)
2021-02-04T07:36:53 < R2COM> so..hopefully works for me too
2021-02-04T07:56:02 < ColdKeyboard> Weird thing... STM32L011 does not print anything on the USART when it's power cycled. However if I load gdb and start debuggin... works like a charm :(
2021-02-04T08:11:37 < R2COM> maybe you do sometihng before pll locked or something, and during gdb you run to some point and all inits fine thats why it works
2021-02-04T08:11:44 < R2COM> sleep time
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2021-02-04T08:14:12 < ColdKeyboard> I'm looking at it... can't figure it out
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2021-02-04T09:01:41 < ColdKeyboard> BOOT0 should be tied to GND for normal boot, right?
2021-02-04T09:10:15 < jpa-> yes
2021-02-04T09:10:28 < jpa-> and NRST should be high
2021-02-04T09:14:17 < ColdKeyboard> Weird, when I use debugger and attach to running MCU it's at 0x1FF000F4
2021-02-04T09:14:34 < ColdKeyboard> And it ends up at the same address regardless if BOOT0 is LOW or HIGH
2021-02-04T09:17:32 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-02-04T09:20:06 < jpa-> what values does debugger show for     x /2xw 0x0000
2021-02-04T09:20:19 < jpa-> i.e. reset and stack vector
2021-02-04T09:23:27 < ColdKeyboard> Where do I find that?
2021-02-04T09:23:42 < jpa-> are you using gdb?
2021-02-04T09:23:53 < ColdKeyboard> I'm using Ozone from JLInk
2021-02-04T09:24:16 < jpa-> ah, i don't know how to use that; but you would want to read the two 32-bit values at 0x0000 and 0x0004
2021-02-04T09:25:50 < ColdKeyboard> 0x0000 -> 00 08 00 20 ED 20 00 08  95 06 00 08 97 06 00 08
2021-02-04T09:26:02 < ColdKeyboard> 0x0004 -> 6D 21 00 08 6D 21 00 08  6D 21 00 08 6D 21 00 08
2021-02-04T09:26:14 < ColdKeyboard> I'm looking at Memory view
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2021-02-04T09:28:46 < jpa-> ok, looks reasonable (0x080020ED and 0x20008000)
2021-02-04T09:29:28 < jpa-> are you using semihosting in your code?
2021-02-04T09:30:07 < ColdKeyboard> What's that? :)
2021-02-04T09:30:17 < ColdKeyboard> I assume, no. Unless it's turned on by default
2021-02-04T09:30:37 < jpa-> probably not then
2021-02-04T09:31:01 < jpa-> it seems like your code is jumping to that weird address for some reason, because the boot address itself seems reasonable
2021-02-04T09:31:28 < jpa-> 0x1FF000F4  is system boot memory though, so maybe it is ending up in bootloader for some reason
2021-02-04T09:31:51 < ColdKeyboard> Dammit... when I run with GDB it works fine, which sucks
2021-02-04T09:32:12 < jpa-> hmm, there is nBOOT_SEL config bit on that device
2021-02-04T09:32:53 < jpa-> what value do you see at   0x4002201C ?
2021-02-04T09:33:22 < ColdKeyboard> 0x4002201C -> AA 00 70 80 00 00 00 00  98 94 64 BB 34 28 20 02
2021-02-04T09:33:49 < jpa-> so defaults there, no problems with that
2021-02-04T09:34:03 < jpa-> sounds pretty weird indeed
2021-02-04T09:35:15 < ColdKeyboard> It's driving me nuts since I can't even do a board bringup with this thing :(
2021-02-04T09:35:44 < jpa-> you could try putting some   while(1){}   loop with nothing in it in your main(), and see if it boots to that (check with debugger where it is when you connect on the fly)
2021-02-04T09:35:56 < jpa-> if that works, then it would be some code later in your init that is jumping to a weird place
2021-02-04T09:37:38 < ColdKeyboard> Good point, I can give that a try now
2021-02-04T09:38:52 < ColdKeyboard> Hmmm... I put while(1) as the first line inside main() and it still hangs at that 0x1FF00100 area
2021-02-04T09:40:00 < jpa-> that's weird.. it is the behavior one would expect with BOOT0 being high, though i think 0x0000 vectors would look different then also
2021-02-04T09:40:32 < jpa-> i once had a weird intermitten boot issue caused by the BOOT0 pin not being properly soldered, it only contacted sometimes
2021-02-04T09:40:34 < ColdKeyboard> BTW, I also tried pulling BOOT0 to VCC as well as GND, same result
2021-02-04T09:40:45 < ColdKeyboard> Right now it's tied to GND btw
2021-02-04T09:41:03 < ColdKeyboard> I'll try to reflow the board again if everything else fails :\
2021-02-04T09:43:00 < jpa-> have you tried it with the debugger cable completely disconnected from the PCB?
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2021-02-04T09:44:02 < ColdKeyboard> Huh... there is ~700R between actual GND and GND pins on the MCU (when + on GND and - on pin)
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2021-02-04T09:52:39 < ColdKeyboard> Tried without the debugger... same thing
2021-02-04T09:52:54 < ColdKeyboard> It's sleep time. I'll have to build another board tomorrow and give it a whack :\
2021-02-04T10:59:55 < mawk> it's 10am ColdKeyboard you're lazy why are you sleeping now
2021-02-04T11:00:04 < mawk> eh I don't have meetings today I can take a nap
2021-02-04T11:00:17 < mawk> if my colleague stops calling me "so how are you progressing????"
2021-02-04T11:00:32 < mawk> then he snitches to manager "mawk is probably sleeping he's not online on slack" and I don't get pay rise
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2021-02-04T11:19:42 < zyp> 08:28:47 < jpa-> ok, looks reasonable (0x080020ED and 0x20008000)
2021-02-04T11:19:45 < zyp> are you drunk?
2021-02-04T11:20:55 < zyp> 0x20000800
2021-02-04T11:21:05 < mawk> that's ram right
2021-02-04T11:21:11 < PaulFertser> The end of RAM
2021-02-04T11:21:32 < mawk> a
2021-02-04T11:21:32 < PaulFertser> 0x800 is hm, not much
2021-02-04T11:21:38 < mawk> flash
2021-02-04T11:21:41 < mawk> ah nvm
2021-02-04T11:24:49 < PaulFertser> I would use hardware srst and "mon reset halt" to see where it ends up.
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2021-02-04T11:32:51 < PaulFertser> Then "tb main" "c"
2021-02-04T11:32:58 < PaulFertser> And if it ends up in main, step through it.
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2021-02-04T12:45:22 < jpa-> zyp: looks like i mirrored some nibbles also :)
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2021-02-04T12:50:38 < Steffanx> You are forgiven jpa- 
2021-02-04T12:52:25 < mawk> is there really consensus about that Steffanx ?
2021-02-04T12:52:46 < PaulFertser> Kingdoms do not need consensus.
2021-02-04T12:52:47 < mawk> maybe jpa- should stay in purgatory for a while for what he's done
2021-02-04T12:53:31 < mawk> yes willem-alexander should be beheaded
2021-02-04T12:53:38 < mawk> to properly frenchize the country
2021-02-04T12:53:51 < PaulFertser> Do you think there's a consensus in russia that the pigs should be beating peaceful people with batons on the streets?
2021-02-04T12:54:02 -!- mode/##stm32 [+q *!*@serveur.io] by ChanServ
2021-02-04T12:54:14 < Steffanx> Cant hear you mawk 
2021-02-04T12:54:43 -!- mode/##stm32 [-q *!*@serveur.io] by ChanServ
2021-02-04T12:54:47 < mawk> :'( :'(
2021-02-04T12:55:03 < mawk> pigs do that all over the world PaulFertser 
2021-02-04T12:55:23 < mawk> with more or less impunity indeed
2021-02-04T12:55:51 < mawk> also baton is better than gum gun
2021-02-04T12:56:11 < mawk> that french police used against yellow vest
2021-02-04T12:56:29 < PaulFertser> mawk: not sure yellow vest was as peaceful though
2021-02-04T12:56:51 < mawk> that was the media strategy, to depict it as not peaceful in order to justify what police did
2021-02-04T12:56:58 < mawk> then of course over the weeks more and more antifa infiltrated it
2021-02-04T12:57:10 < mawk> but police tactics were the same even at the peaceful start
2021-02-04T12:57:34 < mawk> tactic is let people in, then block entry or exit, launch tear gas and start shooting gum balls
2021-02-04T12:57:37 < mawk> then rinse and repeat next saturday
2021-02-04T12:58:40 < PaulFertser> Why do the french people accept such cruelty?
2021-02-04T12:59:04 < mawk> the part of france that didn't accept it was either busy getting their eyes bursted in the demonstrations, or too afraid to demonstrate
2021-02-04T12:59:11 < mawk> and the other part didn't know about it or thought the violence was justified
2021-02-04T12:59:19 < PaulFertser> Russians do it because many of them are selfish sheeps.
2021-02-04T12:59:43 < PaulFertser> But social media shows everything, it's all on video.
2021-02-04T12:59:58 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-04T13:00:19 < mawk> I don't know if you already have that but for any video evidence of police brutality we had all the official media trying to debunk the video
2021-02-04T13:00:33 < mawk> or some accept that it was brutality, but then justify it
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2021-02-04T13:02:27 < mawk> gum gun caused 14 persons to lose an eye and 78 serious injuries
2021-02-04T13:02:38 < mawk> and GLI-F4 tactical grenades killed at least one person
2021-02-04T13:03:17 < mawk> there was a UN report advocating using against this "less-lethal weapons" in france by civilian law enforcement, but wasn't really listened to
2021-02-04T13:03:41 < mawk> I can get that gum gun is hard to aim with, but they all have laser aim
2021-02-04T13:03:51 < mawk> if they shoot the head it's not by accident
2021-02-04T13:04:25 < PaulFertser> wtf :(
2021-02-04T13:09:55 < mawk> https://cdn.radiofrance.fr/s3/cruiser-production/2019/03/986f8eda-1b60-4a46-8ce9-c7bc65f8dd55/870x489_index.webp
2021-02-04T13:09:59 < mawk> this is the bullet this gun shoots
2021-02-04T13:10:11 < mawk> when it hits your face it breaks bone very easily
2021-02-04T13:10:19 < Steffanx> but maybe not entirely on purpose either mawk ... except when you considering random shooting and hitting the head "on purpose"
2021-02-04T13:10:34 < mawk> you don't shoot randomly in france Steffanx 
2021-02-04T13:10:41 < PaulFertser> Why do they shoot if those people are not damaging anything?
2021-02-04T13:10:55 < mawk> normally the gun is reserved for when the cops are encircled and in danger
2021-02-04T13:10:58 < mawk> to make people go away
2021-02-04T13:11:01 < mawk> but they don't really use it to that end
2021-02-04T13:11:37 < mawk> Steffanx: you issue 3 sommations, you get permission from a superior officer, then you can use it
2021-02-04T13:11:44 < mawk> you don't shoot randomly
2021-02-04T13:11:49 < mawk> and anyway whenever you shoot, you aim
2021-02-04T13:11:57 < mawk> shooting randomly doesn't exist for police
2021-02-04T13:12:38 < Steffanx> ofcourse it does
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2021-02-04T13:12:52 < mawk> even just drawing your gun will get a french cop under custody for interrogation
2021-02-04T13:12:55 < mawk> they don't do it randomly
2021-02-04T13:13:03 < mawk> gun law is very strict even for cops
2021-02-04T13:13:06 < Steffanx> its not that you bureaucrats ALWAYS stick to the rules.
2021-02-04T13:13:20 < mawk> lol
2021-02-04T13:13:30 < mawk> well I'm not against breaking a few leftist bones with sticks
2021-02-04T13:13:35 < mawk> but bursting eyes is a bit too much
2021-02-04T13:13:43 < mawk> also it's not just eye, the gum bullet easily break bones
2021-02-04T13:13:53 < mawk> these people need hours of reconstructive surgery, titanium plates and so on
2021-02-04T13:21:54 < mawk> also they got orders PaulFertser , as always
2021-02-04T13:21:58 < mawk> they don't do it by themselves
2021-02-04T13:22:27 < mawk> in this case it was the stragey of the local state administrator for Paris, Didier Lallemant, nominated directly by the government
2021-02-04T13:22:36 < mawk> his name reads like "didier the german guy"
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2021-02-04T14:05:35 < Steffanx> will you hold your breath again PaulFertser ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep8XJanoFgw&feature=emb_title
2021-02-04T14:08:54 < PaulFertser> Impressive. But no.
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2021-02-04T14:16:50 < qyx> oh spam about STM32WL55JC
2021-02-04T14:17:14 < qyx> they say dual core M0/M4 is needed to avoid recertification of the radio on software update
2021-02-04T14:18:17 < qyx> did they license Semtech's radio?
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2021-02-04T14:19:57 < qyx> hm, hardware mailbox and semaphores
2021-02-04T14:21:47 < mawk> you don't like them?
2021-02-04T14:23:31 < qyx> never seen them
2021-02-04T14:23:55 < qyx> hm it is probably only a dual die package
2021-02-04T14:24:04 < qyx> you have to communicate with the radio using spi
2021-02-04T14:25:36 < mawk> I mean mailbox and semaphores
2021-02-04T14:26:10 < qyx> yeah I mean I have never seen a hardware implementation
2021-02-04T14:26:15 < qyx> not counting the thing in the CAN peripheral
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2021-02-04T15:43:25 < qyx> re solarwinds, who did mention them? kaki?
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2021-02-04T16:15:41 < englishman> Laurenceb: i have an interesting paper on modeling gravitational lensing using raytracing, want a copy?
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2021-02-04T16:46:27 < mawk> you wrote it englishman ?
2021-02-04T16:46:34 < mawk> give it to me
2021-02-04T16:46:39 < englishman> no
2021-02-04T16:46:41 < Laurenceb> yeah sounds good thanks
2021-02-04T16:46:43 < englishman> i didn't
2021-02-04T16:47:01 < Laurenceb> microsoft teams ate my ram :(
2021-02-04T16:47:13 < Laurenceb> why do hyperloop have to use a bazillion chat apps
2021-02-04T16:47:52 < englishman> https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/optical-engineering/volume-60/issue-01/015104/Ray-tracing-simulation-of-gravitational-lensing-using-a-gradient-index/10.1117/1.OE.60.1.015104.full
2021-02-04T16:47:58 < englishman> should work without login
2021-02-04T16:49:18 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-02-04T16:49:29 < mawk> who no
2021-02-04T16:49:31 < mawk> give it
2021-02-04T16:49:33 < Laurenceb> I need to get muh Radiance sim scripted properly
2021-02-04T16:49:36 < mawk> ah
2021-02-04T16:49:42 < Laurenceb> for stratosolar sim
2021-02-04T16:49:45 < Steffanx> how much wam is that Laurenceb ? 1 GB?
2021-02-04T16:49:51 < Laurenceb> lol 4
2021-02-04T16:49:59 < mouseghost> wam
2021-02-04T16:50:01 < Steffanx> 4 GB in 2021 :D
2021-02-04T16:50:03 < mouseghost> swam
2021-02-04T16:50:06 < BrainDamage> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.01.21250957v1 apparently covid vaccine maakes people stupid ... as in they stop taking safety precautions as soon as they are vaccinated instead of atfter ~3 weeks
2021-02-04T16:50:10 < Steffanx> know your memes mouseghost 
2021-02-04T16:50:16  * Laurenceb is hyperlooping
2021-02-04T16:50:21 < mouseghost> Steffanx, ay i compiled erlang on 2gb
2021-02-04T16:50:26 < Laurenceb> they trolled me epic style
2021-02-04T16:50:32 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pVNvSuA2mM <- mouseghost 
2021-02-04T16:50:36 < Laurenceb> first day working on site they had a jerb for me
2021-02-04T16:50:48 < Laurenceb> cleaning out blocked train toilets
2021-02-04T16:50:52 < BrainDamage> digging the tunnel
2021-02-04T16:50:58 < BrainDamage> nice
2021-02-04T16:50:59 < Laurenceb> lul
2021-02-04T16:51:09 < mouseghost> whats dedotated Steffanx
2021-02-04T16:51:22 < mouseghost> dedicated?
2021-02-04T16:51:24 < Laurenceb> they also have a pile of about 100 broken train galley ovens that need fixing
2021-02-04T16:51:52 < Laurenceb> but now I'm making a 24GHz FOD radar
2021-02-04T16:51:53 < mouseghost> Steffanx, do you want me to pee myself? because you are close
2021-02-04T16:52:11 < BrainDamage> I'm sure someone will make a racist joke of that
2021-02-04T16:53:41 < zyp> heh, 4GB
2021-02-04T16:53:50 < mouseghost> good its not superkai69
2021-02-04T16:54:00 < Steffanx> mouseghost do as you like.. im not stopping you
2021-02-04T16:54:01 < mouseghost> oh it actually rhymes better
2021-02-04T16:54:51 < mouseghost> Steffanx, how is it in german
2021-02-04T16:55:26 < Steffanx> idk, i hardly speak german
2021-02-04T16:55:26 < mouseghost> mach wie du liebst.. ich stoppe dich nicht
2021-02-04T16:55:28 < mouseghost> ?
2021-02-04T16:55:34 < mawk> out of what BrainDamage 
2021-02-04T16:55:58 < mawk> I want to hear the joke
2021-02-04T16:55:59 < zyp> $newjob asked me for input for what computer they're gonna get me, I'm like «idk, something with 64GB ram would be good»
2021-02-04T16:56:05 < mawk> lol
2021-02-04T16:56:10 < BrainDamage> mawk: train ovens
2021-02-04T16:56:15 < mawk> a
2021-02-04T16:56:29 < Steffanx> lol zyp ... 64 -_-
2021-02-04T16:56:35 < zyp> too little?
2021-02-04T16:56:50 < mouseghost> wam
2021-02-04T16:56:56 < Steffanx> How many VMs do you plan on running?
2021-02-04T16:57:00 < mawk> wandom access memowy
2021-02-04T16:57:02 < zyp> one
2021-02-04T16:57:40 < zyp> but I mean
2021-02-04T16:57:42 < Steffanx> but hey, ram is cheap-ish so yeah 64 is fine
2021-02-04T16:57:43 < BrainDamage> might as well ditch the ssd
2021-02-04T16:57:59 < BrainDamage> just keep it powered
2021-02-04T16:58:01 < mouseghost> i have 2GB flash in one terminal
2021-02-04T16:58:03 < mouseghost> and 2GB wam
2021-02-04T16:58:18 < zyp> my workstation at home had 32, and then one module failed last year so now it's running with 24
2021-02-04T16:58:24 < mouseghost> :/
2021-02-04T16:58:33 < zyp> and I'm actually running out of ram now from time to time
2021-02-04T16:58:37 < mouseghost> aw
2021-02-04T16:58:53 < mouseghost> you aint swapping?
2021-02-04T16:59:21 < zyp> I am, but it's not like that's helping
2021-02-04T16:59:48 < zyp> even on a ssd, swapping out a few gigabytes makes everything grind to a halt
2021-02-04T16:59:59 < Laurenceb> whats the fastest spi on stm32?
2021-02-04T17:00:04 < BrainDamage> linux swap performance is horrible
2021-02-04T17:00:08 < zyp> Laurenceb, octospi
2021-02-04T17:00:20  * Laurenceb is planning on DMA->SPI for radar modulation
2021-02-04T17:00:25 < BrainDamage> I benchmarked approx 2% of IO capacity of the drrive
2021-02-04T17:00:30 < Laurenceb> zyp: I only need single bit
2021-02-04T17:00:43 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: yeah and they refuse to fix it
2021-02-04T17:00:50 < zyp> BrainDamage, macos in my case, on linux I wouldn't even bother with swap
2021-02-04T17:01:01 < BrainDamage> also, swap shouldn't be used as "more ram", at least linux swap
2021-02-04T17:01:26 < BrainDamage> it only exists to let the cache handler code work better on ordered data
2021-02-04T17:01:28 < zyp> macos automatically swaps to files growing with demand
2021-02-04T17:01:55 < zyp> with linux I just wouldn't bother setting up a swap partition
2021-02-04T17:02:03 < BrainDamage> there's a few daemons for linux that do that
2021-02-04T17:02:19 < zyp> yeah, but it's not like I want it, it's just the default setup
2021-02-04T17:02:21 < BrainDamage> instead I installed a userspace oom killer
2021-02-04T17:02:29 < zyp> and I'm too lazy to figure out if I could turn it off
2021-02-04T17:02:40 < BrainDamage> when I start seeing stuff disappearing, I know it's time to reboot
2021-02-04T17:02:46 < zyp> :)
2021-02-04T17:06:30 < Laurenceb> F4 spi is limited to 50Mhz right?
2021-02-04T17:07:48 < BrainDamage> are you going to use the raw spi signal as modulation input?
2021-02-04T17:08:06 < BrainDamage> DSSS style
2021-02-04T17:10:18 < jpa-> H7 QSPI can get 200MHz, but it's limited to 4GB at a time and then couple clocks of pause
2021-02-04T17:11:07 < jpa-> Laurenceb: if you are planning on modulation output, maybe HRTIM would be useful also? IIRC it can do ~100MHz square wave with the edges positioned at 4GHz resolution
2021-02-04T17:12:38 < jpa-> zyp: for me vm.min_free_kbytes helped a bit with linux freezing everything when it starts swapping    https://askubuntu.com/a/45009/115468
2021-02-04T17:13:06 < jpa-> ah mac os
2021-02-04T17:13:16 < jpa-> then i'll redirect that to BrainDamage 
2021-02-04T17:13:39 < BrainDamage> not familiar with macos
2021-02-04T17:13:48 < zyp> jpa-, I'm not interested in increasing swap performance, I'm interested in having enough ram to not need swap
2021-02-04T17:13:55 < BrainDamage> ah you meant the swap perf
2021-02-04T17:14:09 < jpa-> i think this conversation is sufficiently tangled now
2021-02-04T17:38:11 < qyx> don't swap thigns
2021-02-04T17:38:23 < qyx> also corona32, we are fully britished it seems
2021-02-04T17:38:45 < qyx> 23 of 28 samples randomly selected yesterday
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2021-02-04T17:41:21 < R2COM> so i ordered the nvme without heatsink, been reading articles that it doesnt really improve much and that extreme cooling there not needed
2021-02-04T17:41:29 < R2COM> thus no need to overpay for looks of cool heatsink
2021-02-04T17:44:36 < jpa-> yeah, i haven't really understood point of heatsinks on NVME, especially aftermarket heatsink
2021-02-04T17:44:45 < jpa-> if the drive needs one, there will be one pre-installed
2021-02-04T17:44:49 < karlp> I tried running without swap on inux, then realized I _must_ have swap to be able to hibernate
2021-02-04T17:45:23 < R2COM> hmm okay
2021-02-04T17:45:34 < karlp> I'm running otu of my 500GB ssd drive again though
2021-02-04T17:48:23 < karlp> hrm, I'm still debating whether to drop a bunch of pdfs and step files into the sch/pcb git repo or not...
2021-02-04T17:48:48 < qyx> hibernating uh oh
2021-02-04T17:48:56 < qyx> never did that, does it even work?
2021-02-04T17:50:56 < karlp> yeah, works fine. does wonders for my productivity
2021-02-04T17:51:04 < karlp> and lets me turn off my desk and the blinken lights at night
2021-02-04T17:51:27 < karlp> I mean, except that you're _required_ to have swap, but other than that...
2021-02-04T17:52:00 < qyx> hm, no swap here with 16G, I didn't have any with 8G too
2021-02-04T17:52:32 < qyx> and I either suspend or keep running at night
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2021-02-04T17:53:10 < qyx> the thing draws 30 mA@12 V suspended, 300 mA running
2021-02-04T17:53:39 < drzacek> Hello there
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2021-02-04T17:54:22 < drzacek> I am trying my black pill (stm32f411ceu6) for the first time, and I'm not sure what am I suppose to configure in the CLOCK tab in Stm32CubeIDE (the hw config editor). 
2021-02-04T17:59:22 < mawk> leave maximum frequency then
2021-02-04T17:59:52 < mawk> is there an external crystal on the board? if yes you might select HSE source for the PLL
2021-02-04T17:59:56 < mawk> set correctly the frequency
2021-02-04T17:59:58 < karlp> qyx: I'm not turning it off to save power or anything..
2021-02-04T18:00:04 < mawk> show screenshot drzacek 
2021-02-04T18:00:09 < mawk> I'm too lazy to start cube
2021-02-04T18:00:11 < qyx> thats interesting how do people make their lives harder
2021-02-04T18:00:18 < qyx> if you don't configure anything the MCU runs with defaults
2021-02-04T18:00:20 < mawk> give a link to datasheet of your board also
2021-02-04T18:00:30 < qyx> if you are starting to ivnestigate stm32, it is the best approach
2021-02-04T18:00:38 < qyx> and not keep configuring clock tree for 2 days
2021-02-04T18:00:40 < mawk> hmm
2021-02-04T18:00:43 < mawk> not sure
2021-02-04T18:00:49 < qyx> what not sure
2021-02-04T18:00:51 < mawk> it's the best approach for getting stuff quickly done I agree
2021-02-04T18:00:56 < mawk> but not the best approach for understanding
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2021-02-04T18:01:04 < qyx> if you use libopencm3, you can get the MCU running in 5 lines of code
2021-02-04T18:01:08 < qyx> without touching clocks
2021-02-04T18:01:14 < qyx> (except enabling gpio clock)
2021-02-04T18:01:25 < mawk> yes that's too quick, knowledge shines through pain
2021-02-04T18:01:34 < mawk> the bible says "work your dough until your bread gets the taste of blood" right?
2021-02-04T18:01:44 < qyx> idk what does the bible say
2021-02-04T18:02:10 < mawk> anyway it's by playing with clock tree in cube that I understood how it works
2021-02-04T18:02:20 < mawk> even if you don't save the project file after it's still good to try stuff and experiment
2021-02-04T18:02:38 < mawk> see what inputs are to pll, what outputs are, what parameters, which peripherals on which clock, etc
2021-02-04T18:05:27 < mawk> if you don't try stuff it will stay magical forever and stay hard
2021-02-04T18:16:26 < drzacek> mawk, https://imgur.com/a/ufMd1XO
2021-02-04T18:16:44 < zyp> mawk, shit's tedious though
2021-02-04T18:16:45 < drzacek> looks like there's 25mhz on the board
2021-02-04T18:16:55 < zyp> do once for fun, sure
2021-02-04T18:16:59 < zyp> do it every time, no thanks
2021-02-04T18:18:14 < drzacek> that clock tree looks super complex, I'm sure it all makes sense, but without additional help info on that screen I have no idea what am I looking at. The fact that most paths are grayed out for some reason doesn't help either
2021-02-04T18:18:41 < zyp> drzacek, try reading the RCC chapter in the reference manual :)
2021-02-04T18:18:47 < drzacek> I've been playing with the stm32f103 some time ago, I knew what I had to type there to get the max 72mhz and that was it, never played with it again
2021-02-04T18:18:49 < drzacek> zyp, got it
2021-02-04T18:19:11 < drzacek> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/dm00119316-stm32f411xce-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf got this thing open right now
2021-02-04T18:21:19 < drzacek> ah, I had to enable the external oscilators in the PIN tab 
2021-02-04T18:21:42 < drzacek> now it looks somewhat better. Thanks, I was looking in SYS, not in RCC, not I remember
2021-02-04T18:22:02 < drzacek> I'll be back tomorrow with more dumb questions!
2021-02-04T18:22:05 < zyp> for F411, max freq is 84, right?
2021-02-04T18:22:21 < drzacek> they advertised it as 100
2021-02-04T18:22:26 < drzacek> and 100 is what it put as default now
2021-02-04T18:22:43 < zyp> ah, you'll probably want 96 in that case
2021-02-04T18:23:08 < zyp> so that you can do Q = 2P to get 48MHz on the Q output
2021-02-04T18:23:22 < drzacek> oh/
2021-02-04T18:23:36 < drzacek> ok, but I got to go now, thanks for help
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2021-02-04T18:24:52 < qyx> yeah 84 was for F40x
2021-02-04T18:25:20 < qyx> if he has 25 MHz xtal, 100 shoudl be achievable
2021-02-04T18:26:58 < zyp> F4 can make any integer freq from any integer crystal, but if you want USB you need a VCO freq divisible by 48 MHz
2021-02-04T18:28:08 < zyp> and lcm(48, 100) is 1200, which is way above the VCO max :)
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2021-02-04T19:09:43 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/oSXKsY6
2021-02-04T19:15:54 < zyp> nice
2021-02-04T19:19:27 < Mangy_Dog> thankies
2021-02-04T19:28:14 < qyx> I am not into scifi-space, but looks good
2021-02-04T19:29:27 < PaulFertser> So far everything Mangy_Dog showed here looked rather good.
2021-02-04T19:29:31 < Mangy_Dog> In this case its just a atmega328 with a mpr121 touch sensing chip... This is the daughter board, the main board that runs the lcd and the core program is on the stm32f103... Im just running test programs at the moment to make sure everything is working and wired up right, before I seal it in and then attack it to the main body
2021-02-04T19:29:58 < Mangy_Dog> the two baords talk through uart
2021-02-04T19:30:24 < Mangy_Dog> tbh the daughter board passes on what buttons are pressed to the main board, and the main board tells the daughter board what leds to turn on
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2021-02-04T19:46:08 < mawk> zyp I've always done it using the cube guj
2021-02-04T19:46:09 < mawk> gui
2021-02-04T19:46:17 < mawk> I don't think it's complex or tedious
2021-02-04T19:46:33 < mawk> I don't use their auto solver feature, I just tweak coefficients like I want and that's it
2021-02-04T19:46:43 < mawk> you get immediate computation of what you did
2021-02-04T19:46:50 < mawk> so it's easy
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2021-02-04T20:38:38 < mouseghost> mawk, what is it for?
2021-02-04T20:38:41 < mouseghost> Mangy_Dog, 
2021-02-04T20:39:26 < Mangy_Dog> tricorder v2
2021-02-04T20:39:34 < Mangy_Dog> i made a prop0 a couple years ago this is the new version
2021-02-04T20:40:48 < mouseghost> oh, cool!
2021-02-04T20:44:50 < Laurenceb> jpa-: interesting, thanks
2021-02-04T20:45:04 < Laurenceb> problem is I really need high bit rate pseudorandom sequences
2021-02-04T20:45:14 < Laurenceb> 50mhz is prob good enough for hyperloop radar
2021-02-04T20:46:13 < Laurenceb> then use the spi to abuse the pll on one of the infenion radar ics to generate 2psk
2021-02-04T20:47:10 < mouseghost> huh
2021-02-04T20:47:56 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-02-04T20:48:14 < englishman> 50 millihertz isn't very fast
2021-02-04T20:48:18 < Laurenceb> Mhz
2021-02-04T20:48:37 < Laurenceb> hyperradar
2021-02-04T20:49:34 < jpa-> Laurenceb: looks like H7 normal SPI can do 100MHz and it's not transfer length limited
2021-02-04T20:50:11 < Laurenceb> ok thats not too far from the limit of the 24GHz band
2021-02-04T20:50:21 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/d5EPPkt.mp4
2021-02-04T20:50:22 < Laurenceb> 24-24.25GHz aiui
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2021-02-04T20:54:32 < jpa-> it also has the delay block that could conceivably be used to run two SPI peripherals at 0.5 clock cycle difference, and then XOR externally for poor man's DDR
2021-02-04T20:54:44 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-02-04T20:55:10 < Laurenceb> an interesting feature would be a way to continuously vary spi clock speed
2021-02-04T20:55:17 < Laurenceb> dunno how that could be done tho
2021-02-04T20:55:27 < jpa-> quadspi has DDR built-in, but i ran into https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000BqA26l/quadspi-hangs-with-busy-after-4-gb-indirect-read
2021-02-04T20:55:29 < Laurenceb> guess a slave spi device then external clock
2021-02-04T20:55:29 < ColdKeyboard> [03:59] <mawk> it's 10am ColdKeyboard you're lazy why are you sleeping now
2021-02-04T20:55:39 < ColdKeyboard> Dude it was 4AM for me :)
2021-02-04T20:56:12 < Laurenceb> or vary the clock to the whole device lmao
2021-02-04T20:56:39 < Laurenceb> nah more seriously a vcxo for spi clk input then dac control might work
2021-02-04T20:56:58 < Laurenceb> or a fancy clock synthesis ic
2021-02-04T20:56:59 < jpa-> you can output HSI to MCO and adjust HSITRIM, no matter what the device runs on
2021-02-04T20:57:07 < Laurenceb> oooh nice plan
2021-02-04T20:57:54 < jpa-> +-5.5% in 0.17% steps
2021-02-04T20:58:01 < Laurenceb> one idea is to transmit Barker codes then dither the chip clock  to lock onto moving objects
2021-02-04T20:58:28 < Laurenceb> could spi be clocked off HSI with rest of MCO ?
2021-02-04T20:58:44 < jpa-> at least by looping back MCO to SCK and running in slave mode
2021-02-04T20:58:48 < Laurenceb> actually if HSI can be output from the IC it could be linked back in with spi as slave
2021-02-04T20:58:50 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-04T20:59:28 < BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what is your budget, and why is it so limited that you need to go with such hacks?
2021-02-04T20:59:43 < jpa-> oh, H7 PLL has this: "13-bit Sigma-Delta modulator, allowing to fine-tune the VCO frequency by steps of 11
2021-02-04T20:59:44 < jpa-> to 0.3 ppm."
2021-02-04T21:00:03 < BrainDamage> I mean, I doubt a hypeloop replacement would be budget-pinned by the radar
2021-02-04T21:00:12 < jpa-> and three PLLs so you can run CPU on one and use others for SPI
2021-02-04T21:00:33 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone have a clue why would STM32L011 boot at 0x1FF.. region instead of 0x800.. Boot0 is LOW, I tried tying it HIGH but same thing. Funny thing is when I attach GDB and start, it works great
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2021-02-04T21:09:19 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I want to avoid crazy bazillion BGA insanity with non standard cored pcb
2021-02-04T21:09:30 < Laurenceb> keep it sanely designable
2021-02-04T21:09:57 < Laurenceb> jpa-: nice, so H7 does have a purpose
2021-02-04T21:10:22 < jpa-> H7 is very cool and quite cheap also
2021-02-04T21:10:39 < Laurenceb> loads of custom microwave shit on a pcb is bound to end badly
2021-02-04T21:11:10 < Laurenceb> off the shelf consumer 24GHz with haxored interface might actually be buildable in sane timeframe
2021-02-04T21:11:29 < qyx> ColdKeyboard: dod you power cycle the board after flashing it for the first time?
2021-02-04T21:12:48 < qyx> there is a "firmware ok" detection logic, it is checking the reset vector or whatever, don't recall exactly now
2021-02-04T21:12:56 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: current prototype uses Rpi and "light fence"...
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2021-02-04T21:13:03 < qyx> if it thinks thereis no valid firmware, it sets a bit
2021-02-04T21:13:17 < qyx> if the bit is set, it always boots to system bootloader
2021-02-04T21:13:24 < qyx> if you flash new firmware, the bit is not reset
2021-02-04T21:13:37 < qyx> either you have to make it manually or power cycle the mcu to do the detection again
2021-02-04T21:14:26 < ColdKeyboard> qyx I do power cycle the board and if I attach a debugger it is at 0x1F.. range. However if I start with gdb and run, it goes from 0x800...
2021-02-04T21:15:00 < ColdKeyboard> I don't think I'm setting nBOOT flag anywhere, and BOOT0 is tied to GND, so it should be booting into user application and not bootloader, right?
2021-02-04T21:15:41 < qyx> also I haven't used L0 yet myself, so probably there are other things to check
2021-02-04T21:15:51 < qyx> try to ask zyp, he did something with L0
2021-02-04T21:16:27 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: what if you attach hardware reset line and use "reset halt"?
2021-02-04T21:20:40 -!- ds2 [~ds2@162-194-129-85.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-04T21:27:00 < ColdKeyboard> I used Ozone from JLink to get a nice GUI. Reset halt would be reset the MCU and halt?
2021-02-04T21:27:41 < PaulFertser> And halt before it executes the first instruction.
2021-02-04T21:28:13 < PaulFertser> ColdKeyboard: if that L part is always running the bootloader then it's indeed might be the case that the bootloader doesn't consider your firmware valid for whatever reason.
2021-02-04T21:28:42 < ColdKeyboard> When I use reset & halt it sits at 0x08002108
2021-02-04T21:29:15 < ColdKeyboard> But again, I don't know if JLink is instructing the MCU or setting the PC to a default value or just applying reset + halt
2021-02-04T21:40:41 < PaulFertser> I know only OpenOCD, sorry.
2021-02-04T21:47:30 < mawk> streets are packed 15mn before curfew Steffanx 
2021-02-04T21:47:32 < mawk> lol
2021-02-04T21:50:55 < Steffanx> uh?
2021-02-04T22:03:38 < mawk> what
2021-02-04T22:03:45 < mawk> come in delft to look by yourself
2021-02-04T22:05:53 < Steffanx> no thanks
2021-02-04T22:14:43 < mawk> then believe me
2021-02-04T22:14:50 < mawk> I am an authoritative source of information
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2021-02-04T22:23:18 < zyp> you guys doing curfews?
2021-02-04T22:24:24 < Steffanx> yeah, but after 21.00 so what changed?
2021-02-04T22:25:37 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-04T22:26:42 < Steffanx> we even had riots the first few days because "muuuh ffreeedummmm"
2021-02-04T22:26:56 < ColdKeyboard> Virus is from the bat. Bat is awake during the night... what part of curfew at night does not make sense? rofl
2021-02-04T22:27:26 < ColdKeyboard> People are sitting in pubs, hanging out entire day but staying home from 9pm-8am will change everything :)
2021-02-04T22:27:55 < Steffanx> people are not in the pubs.
2021-02-04T22:28:25 < zyp> Steffanx, makes sense, if people weren't that fucking stupid there wouldn't be any point in curfews in the first place
2021-02-04T22:29:05 < ColdKeyboard> There are always people who will always exploit any situation to the maximum extend allowed by law... sad, but true.
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2021-02-04T22:30:42 < ColdKeyboard> Huh, PaulFertser you may be right. I wiped the device and attached to it while it's "empty" and it hangs at same 0x1F.. spot as when I flash my app
2021-02-04T22:31:47 < qyx> yes thats internal bootloader
2021-02-04T22:32:04 < ColdKeyboard> How can I figure out why does it think my app is invalid? :\
2021-02-04T22:32:29 < qyx> start by reading in the RM what exactly it checks
2021-02-04T22:32:50 < qyx> and then crosscheck in your app
2021-02-04T22:46:18 < englishman> daily positives have fallen to 40% of what they were when the curfew was implemented, here
2021-02-04T22:46:31 < englishman> i think old people started to take shit seriously
2021-02-04T22:47:39 < englishman> although, they are dropping in other provinces too, that have taken less action
2021-02-04T22:47:41 < englishman> so who the fuck knows
2021-02-04T22:49:58 < PaulFertser> I'm rather suprised that moscow manages without any curfew. No idea why but seems to be true.
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2021-02-04T23:05:13 < Steffanx> When putin says you stay inside, you stay inside, right PaulFertser ?
2021-02-04T23:05:59 < mouseghost> Steffanx, clearly, people my age from normal env.s. are uhhh
2021-02-04T23:13:51 < qyx> excuse my dumbness
2021-02-04T23:14:03 < qyx> I have a adc reading, let's say 1024 of 4096
2021-02-04T23:14:29 < qyx> it is from a resistive divider 10K to 10K NTC
2021-02-04T23:14:38 < qyx> do I need to know Vdda in order to compute Rntc?
2021-02-04T23:14:51 < qyx> I failed for the third time, even with wolfram alpha
2021-02-04T23:15:39 < qyx> so basically 1024/4095 = Vdda / (10k + Rntc) * 10k
2021-02-04T23:15:45 < qyx> it seems I need Vdda :S
2021-02-04T23:15:52 < qyx> no fuk wait
2021-02-04T23:16:02 < qyx> 1024/4095 * Vdda = Vdda / (10k + Rntc) * 10k
2021-02-04T23:16:14 < qyx> so I may divide it by Vdda
2021-02-04T23:16:58 < qyx> 1024/4096 = 10k^2 + 10kRntc
2021-02-04T23:17:25 < qyx> (1024/4095 - 10k^2) / 10k = Rntc, right?
2021-02-04T23:19:23 < qyx> I am curious how did I manage to do maths at uni
2021-02-04T23:19:52 < zyp> drugs
2021-02-04T23:19:54 < Lux> you also could have just copy pasted some arduino stuff :P
2021-02-04T23:20:05 < Lux> but yeah seems about right
2021-02-04T23:20:18 < qyx> no
2021-02-04T23:20:41 < Lux> and now you need that approx formula to calc temp and beta
2021-02-04T23:20:52 < qyx> I have that one
2021-02-04T23:21:05 < qyx> the only part that works because I copied it :>
2021-02-04T23:22:19 < Steffanx> over worked much qyx ?
2021-02-04T23:25:17 < mouseghost> qyx, are you getting enough sleep?
2021-02-04T23:28:31 < qyx> Lux: problem with the ardweeno stuff is that they always use NTC connected to Vdda for some reasong
2021-02-04T23:28:35 < qyx> and not to GND
2021-02-04T23:32:24 < qyx> ok float rntc = 10000.0 / (4095.0 * adc - 1);
2021-02-04T23:32:26 < qyx> works.
2021-02-04T23:32:44 < qyx> thanks https://learn.adafruit.com/thermistor/using-a-thermistor
2021-02-04T23:32:53 < qyx> knowledge gathered
2021-02-04T23:34:52 < mawk> you measure 4095 r/(r+R) with your adc
2021-02-04T23:34:58 < mawk> so you just invert that
2021-02-04T23:35:25 < mawk> r is your unknown, R is your 10K
2021-02-04T23:36:08 < qyx> you are late to the party
2021-02-04T23:36:11 < mawk> :(
2021-02-04T23:36:48 < mawk> so 4095r/(r+R) = adc => 4095r = r·adc + R·adc => (4095-adc)·r = R·adc => r = R·adc/(4095-adc) = R/(4095/adc - 1)
2021-02-04T23:36:51 < mawk> so you made an error qyx 
2021-02-04T23:36:54 < mawk> it's / not *
2021-02-04T23:36:57 < mawk> so I'm not late to the party
2021-02-04T23:36:59 < mawk> QED
2021-02-04T23:37:19 < qyx> wat
2021-02-04T23:37:28 < mawk> it's R/(4095/adc - 1)
2021-02-04T23:37:33 < mawk> or R·adc/(4095 - adc)
2021-02-04T23:37:36 < mawk> if you don't want divisions
2021-02-04T23:38:10 < mawk> your webpage agrees with me also, I guess that's a good thing
2021-02-04T23:38:27 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210204223825228.png
2021-02-04T23:38:54 < qyx> fuck that shit I even failed to copy that stuff
2021-02-04T23:38:58 < mawk> lol
2021-02-04T23:39:20 < mawk> then you find B value from NTC datasheet
2021-02-04T23:39:26 < mawk> and apply the exponential formula
2021-02-04T23:39:28 < mawk> right
2021-02-04T23:39:50 < mawk> you're using the internal voltage reference from the stm32 ? or is your vdda fixed
2021-02-04T23:43:52 < qyx> it is ratiometric
2021-02-04T23:44:00 < qyx> the divider is between vdda/vssa
2021-02-04T23:45:11 < mawk> ah
2021-02-04T23:45:25 < mawk> but vdda is basically your core voltage no?
2021-02-04T23:45:32 < mawk> I mean if you use a lipo or something to feed it, then it's not fixed
2021-02-04T23:45:33 < qyx> yes
2021-02-04T23:45:41 < qyx> it doesn't have to be
2021-02-04T23:45:44 < mawk> and then you'd rather use the internal voltage reference
2021-02-04T23:45:53 < mawk> or else you will need tricks to measure Vdda as well
2021-02-04T23:45:57 < mawk> which adds more components
2021-02-04T23:46:38 < mawk> hmm yeah nevermind
2021-02-04T23:51:52 < qyx> I dont't want nor need to measure vdda
2021-02-04T23:53:11 < karlp> yeah you do :)
2021-02-04T23:53:19 < karlp> you want to make sure it's as stable as you think.
2021-02-04T23:53:44  * karlp always samples external channels and teh iref to get better results
2021-02-04T23:55:29 < qyx> I am doing that but for ratiometric mesurement of a resistor bridge/divider there is no need to
2021-02-04T23:55:38 < qyx> because vdda is irrelevant in that case
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2021-02-04T23:59:05 < karlp> Laurenceb: we just added a bunch of extra h7 support to locm3.... ;)
--- Day changed Fri Feb 05 2021
2021-02-05T00:01:36 < qyx> \o/ I'll try in few hours
2021-02-05T00:01:51 < qyx> also we will do CANFD for G4/H7
2021-02-05T00:01:53 < englishman> shouldn't you call it iocm7
2021-02-05T00:01:55 < qyx> if not done already
2021-02-05T00:03:03 < karlp> englishman: I'm at least (personally) drawing the line at arm cortex....
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2021-02-05T00:16:15 < ColdKeyboard> Huh, I created another blank application with uart that puts single string out...
2021-02-05T00:17:17 < ColdKeyboard> When I power-cycle the board it doesn't work (ends up on 0x1F..) but if I use GDB and reset the board, it works fine...
2021-02-05T00:17:20 < ColdKeyboard> this is driving me nuts
2021-02-05T00:28:48 < Steffanx> and you're sure your boot0 pin is doing the right thing?
2021-02-05T00:37:43 < ColdKeyboard> It is. I'll have to whip up another board tonight... I'm not looking forward to that tho
2021-02-05T00:38:17 < mawk> and if you probe it?
2021-02-05T00:38:20 < mawk> is it really puled dow
2021-02-05T00:38:22 < mawk> n
2021-02-05T00:38:30 < ColdKeyboard> Steffanx to your point, I also tried soldering (manually lifting a pin and adding a resistor) BOOT0 to VDD as well to GND and same result
2021-02-05T00:40:29 < mawk> ah
2021-02-05T00:40:40 < mawk> and you checked nboot0 in the option bytes?
2021-02-05T00:40:51 < mawk> is it = the reset value
2021-02-05T00:41:27 < mawk> or factory value rather
2021-02-05T00:45:07 < ColdKeyboard> mawk I'm not sure how to check that. Last night jpa- was helping me with that and he said it looks normal
2021-02-05T00:45:15 < mawk> ah right
2021-02-05T00:45:22 < ColdKeyboard> I'll just build another board and see if it behaves the same way. Hopefully it doesn't... :)
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2021-02-05T01:02:10 < ColdKeyboard> Also, on an unrelated note
2021-02-05T01:02:38 < ColdKeyboard> is it normal that __aeabi_dmul and __aeabi_dsub take 1240 and 1828 bytes???
2021-02-05T01:02:51 < zyp> probably
2021-02-05T01:03:04 < zyp> that's why you'd want to avoid doubles
2021-02-05T01:10:12 < ColdKeyboard> :S I'm not using doubles anywhere tho... at least not intentionally
2021-02-05T01:13:04 < zyp> unintentionally then :)
2021-02-05T01:13:19 < zyp> those functions wouldn't get pulled in if nothing called them
2021-02-05T01:13:27 < zyp> so just search through the disassembly for the calls
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2021-02-05T01:23:13 < ColdKeyboard> Totaly, I know compiler is not making this up. I just have to find where I'm "using" them :)
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2021-02-05T01:30:09 < karlp> ColdKeyboard: 0.0 is a double implicitly...
2021-02-05T01:30:24 < karlp> any floating point literal needs a 69.42f suffix to ensure it's a float
2021-02-05T01:30:28 < karlp> very easy trap to fall into
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2021-02-05T02:03:55 < qyx> I just fell into
2021-02-05T02:04:11 < qyx> with a "log"
2021-02-05T02:04:40 < karlp> needs more logf
2021-02-05T02:04:48 < karlp> throw that f everywhere baby
2021-02-05T02:05:12 < qyx> my .text has overflown
2021-02-05T02:05:21 < karlp> awwww
2021-02-05T02:05:24 < qyx> fortunately my pomodoro was ending
2021-02-05T02:05:33 < qyx> so grabbed another pcb to work on
2021-02-05T02:05:34 < karlp> yeah, it's midnight
2021-02-05T02:05:43  * karlp should get back to pmodoro again
2021-02-05T02:05:59 < karlp> had a nice gnoem shell integrated one that worked well for me, but it's busted since years now
2021-02-05T02:06:14 < qyx> yeah to know how unproductive you are
2021-02-05T02:06:24 < qyx> if I count pomodoros per day, it is usually ~10
2021-02-05T02:06:59 < karlp> how long are you doing?
2021-02-05T02:07:15 < qyx> from dusk to dawn
2021-02-05T02:07:18 < qyx> or the other wy around
2021-02-05T02:07:27 < karlp> what?
2021-02-05T02:07:30 < karlp> no, each one
2021-02-05T02:07:33 < qyx> oh
2021-02-05T02:07:38 < qyx> 25min, 5m break
2021-02-05T02:07:54 < qyx> so basically thats only 5 hours of fully productive work per day
2021-02-05T02:08:36 < englishman> you really only need to be productive for 30min a day
2021-02-05T02:08:52 < qyx> you have to sleep, eat and stuff, today I was getting another 5G chip, which takes some time
2021-02-05T02:09:01 < qyx> an hour or so walking
2021-02-05T02:09:02 < karlp> 5hrs is fine
2021-02-05T02:09:06 < qyx> not much time left
2021-02-05T02:09:18 < karlp> I think in an old job we ended up on only assigning 5 hours per day to tasks anyway
2021-02-05T02:09:57 < qyx> we were assigning 8 and $boss didn't want to admit it is impossible
2021-02-05T02:10:20 < qyx> when we were reviewing it every month, it was always <6h
2021-02-05T02:10:23 < karlp> aandrew: that's.... quite a space: https://twitter.com/akohlsmith/status/1357480455658962944
2021-02-05T02:10:30 < qyx> but he still insisted on planning 8h a day to keep us motivated
2021-02-05T02:12:09 < qyx> I like those unfinished walls
2021-02-05T02:12:16 < qyx> looks exactly like my ceiling
2021-02-05T02:13:56 < zyp> hmm, I haven't done a desk update in a while, I think desk is sufficiently messy now
2021-02-05T02:14:37 < qyx> also https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsrekmHXMAIo4FG?format=png&name=small
2021-02-05T02:16:45 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/C8UoB.jpg
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2021-02-05T02:17:14 -!- CygniX [~CygniX@opensuse/member/CygniX] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-02-05T02:17:35 < kakium69> apparently 1Gbps is enough for fullhd remote desktop
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2021-02-05T02:19:42 < zyp> still got a lot of $oldjob stuff on the desk, should probably pack that away soon
2021-02-05T02:21:08 < kakium69> can I set bootorder of harddrives in virtualbox?
2021-02-05T02:21:51 < zyp> when I quit I offered them to contract me back when they need me, so they said I could just keep the laptop and stuff for now
2021-02-05T02:22:28 < kakium69> oh
2021-02-05T02:22:55 < kakium69> don't feel like it's going to happen?
2021-02-05T02:23:38 < zyp> contracting me back? pretty sure they will
2021-02-05T02:24:33 < zyp> and I'd like that too, I liked $oldjob
2021-02-05T02:24:53 < zyp> but I like $newjob too, and I couldn't turn down an offer with a 25% raise :p
2021-02-05T02:31:11 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@S01061cabc0ab4603.vc.shawcable.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T02:31:28 < kakium69> it seems I cannot get virtual machine to reach desktop while I'm using host via remote desktop
2021-02-05T02:31:53 < kakium69> actually yes
2021-02-05T02:31:57 < kakium69> I got desktop
2021-02-05T02:32:39 < qyx> I am starting to like BGAs
2021-02-05T02:32:52 < qyx> much easier to solder than qfp with the same number of pads
2021-02-05T02:37:51 < qyx> re: desks, got a new rack recently https://bin.jvnv.net/file/fycx1.JPG
2021-02-05T02:38:02 < qyx> I needed to shorten the shelves a bit
2021-02-05T02:38:20 < machinehum> Needs a fan
2021-02-05T02:38:52 < qyx> I'll use duktape instead
2021-02-05T02:39:59 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
2021-02-05T02:40:30 < qyx> I also got some green banana jack sockets and 1meg resistors for ESD bonding points
2021-02-05T02:41:23 < kakium69> for some reason I could not launch my nested stack of linuxes if the first level host is windows
2021-02-05T02:42:10 -!- Jak_o_Shadows [~Jak@unaffiliated/jak-o-shadows/x-0479135] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T02:43:07 < kakium69> I wanted remote desktop -> windows host -> mint20 on nvme -> mint19 on sata -> mint18 on disk image
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2021-02-05T03:14:10 < ColdKeyboard> Ok, so something is messed up with the board. Assembled a new board and it boots into the main app as expected.
2021-02-05T03:17:58 < mawk> I'm in pain Steffanx 
2021-02-05T03:18:05 < mawk> I halved methadone dose
2021-02-05T03:18:09 < mawk> since 5 days now
2021-02-05T03:20:05 < Steffanx> Semi self medicating again mr mawk?
2021-02-05T03:20:53 < mawk> it's not self medicating
2021-02-05T03:20:57 < mawk> it's self non-medicating
2021-02-05T03:21:09 < mawk> I said halved not doubled
2021-02-05T03:22:57 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ziissrfrzrheawnf] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T03:24:27 < Steffanx> Welcome jly. Tell us about your methadone dose
2021-02-05T03:25:04 < jly> it's dextroamphetamine
2021-02-05T03:26:30 < mawk> yeah a speedball would be nice
2021-02-05T03:26:33 < mawk> want to trade Lux ?
2021-02-05T03:26:36 < mawk> jly: *
2021-02-05T03:26:47 < jly> nah i need these
2021-02-05T03:27:04 < mawk> why
2021-02-05T03:27:07 < mawk> you're adhd?
2021-02-05T03:27:12 < jly> yes
2021-02-05T03:27:25 < jly> somehow I don't think that'd surprise anyone I know
2021-02-05T03:27:31 < Steffanx> Pumping all day... adhd
2021-02-05T03:27:58 < jly> anyway
2021-02-05T03:28:07 < jly> who do you need methadone steffan?
2021-02-05T03:28:15 < mawk> it's me who takes it
2021-02-05T03:28:18 < jly> covid boredom got you addicted to heroin?
2021-02-05T03:28:24 < mawk> not steffie
2021-02-05T03:28:29 < jly> you?
2021-02-05T03:28:32 < mawk> yes
2021-02-05T03:28:38 < jly> yeah I never tried it
2021-02-05T03:28:40 < mawk> for 7 years now
2021-02-05T03:29:06 < jly> luckily I never got addicted to a drug
2021-02-05T03:29:20 < mawk> you never want to crush up a little amp tablet and snort it?
2021-02-05T03:29:24 < mawk> I'd totally do that if I were you$
2021-02-05T03:29:34 < jly> nah I just take the required dose 
2021-02-05T03:29:37 < mawk> ADHD people have like 4-fold more addiction risk
2021-02-05T03:29:42 < jly> exactly
2021-02-05T03:29:47 < jly> have to think about this stuff
2021-02-05T03:29:59 < mawk> hmm then it's because you've never done it before
2021-02-05T03:30:07 < mawk> you haven't tasted the forbidden fruit
2021-02-05T03:30:09 < jly> you'd be wrong there
2021-02-05T03:30:14 < mawk> how do you do then
2021-02-05T03:30:20 < mawk> why aren't you on methadone too
2021-02-05T03:30:23 < jly> me and a friend were grinding up dexies and mixing them with cocaine
2021-02-05T03:30:28 < mawk> ah nice
2021-02-05T03:30:33 < jly> new years eve
2021-02-05T03:30:46 < jly> I only do those things maybe once every couple of years
2021-02-05T03:30:51 < mawk> good
2021-02-05T03:31:05 < mawk> I held 7 years before trying to snort my methadone
2021-02-05T03:31:08 < mawk> but then one day I got bored
2021-02-05T03:31:08 < qyx> huh ##drug32?
2021-02-05T03:31:20 < mawk> ##narcoticsanonymous32
2021-02-05T03:31:20 < jly> rofl
2021-02-05T03:31:23 < jly> steffan started it
2021-02-05T03:31:26 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-05T03:31:28 < mawk> it's Steffanx 
2021-02-05T03:31:30 < mawk> totally
2021-02-05T03:31:41 < jly> I can shift onto getting asian ladyboys to suck me off on a boat?
2021-02-05T03:31:48 < jly> or we'll just stick with drugs?
2021-02-05T03:33:20 < Steffanx> Fuck you mawk. It was you mentioning your methadone 
2021-02-05T03:34:29 < jly> ever since the telegram, I thought this channel devolved into pumps and drugs
2021-02-05T03:36:40 < mawk> yes absolutely
2021-02-05T03:36:42 < mawk> yes I said I halved the dose Steffanx 
2021-02-05T03:36:44 < mawk> so I mentioned absence of drugs
2021-02-05T03:36:46 < mawk> which is the opposite of mentioning drugs
2021-02-05T03:36:48 < mawk> 180° angle between the two vectors
2021-02-05T03:37:37 < Steffanx> Ok.
2021-02-05T03:38:35 < mawk> so why aren't you dead under a bridge jly
2021-02-05T03:38:44 < jly> the orthogonality between pussy and muh dikkk
2021-02-05T03:38:55 < jly> me dead? idk
2021-02-05T03:39:24 < mawk> tell me your secrets
2021-02-05T03:40:32 < Steffanx> Leave the poor guy alone, mawk 
2021-02-05T03:41:06 < Steffanx> This is not how you treat a old ##stm32 friend 
2021-02-05T03:41:12 < Steffanx> An
2021-02-05T03:42:01 < mawk> are you named steffan in real life Steffanx ?
2021-02-05T03:42:03 < mawk> I want to know which of you or karlp have the most unoriginal nick
2021-02-05T03:42:05 < mawk> he's using black magic that I have to know
2021-02-05T03:42:09 < mawk> I'm treating him well
2021-02-05T03:42:11 < mawk> I didn't wish for him to be dead under a bridge
2021-02-05T03:42:13 < mawk> I just ask myself why it hasn't happened yet
2021-02-05T03:42:15 < mawk> give he has the same addiction-causing illness as me
2021-02-05T03:42:17 < mawk> and daily access to amphetamine
2021-02-05T03:42:33 < jly> are you prepared to die for IRC
2021-02-05T03:42:41 < mawk> not really
2021-02-05T03:42:42 < Steffanx> Idk mawk
2021-02-05T03:43:14 < mawk> I'm the winner of the unoriginal nick contest
2021-02-05T03:43:15 < jly> get yourself a 3 consonant nick
2021-02-05T03:43:18 < mawk> because I stole it
2021-02-05T03:43:29 < mawk> from a drughead guy on another server
2021-02-05T03:43:41 < jly> i've had 100 here
2021-02-05T03:43:53 < jly> i just pump until people start blocking me or going psycho
2021-02-05T03:43:57 < jly> then rinse and repeat
2021-02-05T03:44:05 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T03:44:18 < mawk> I registered the nick sabu also
2021-02-05T03:44:25 < mawk> the portorican hacker snitch
2021-02-05T03:44:33 < mawk> but people thought I was him so threatened me
2021-02-05T03:44:38 < mawk> so I switched to mawk
2021-02-05T03:44:48 < Steffanx> Should use Salcedo
2021-02-05T03:44:58 < mawk> that one isn't a snitch
2021-02-05T03:45:24 < jly> animeCUMfreak
2021-02-05T03:45:27 < jly> how about that nick
2021-02-05T03:45:30 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T03:45:34 < mawk> nice one
2021-02-05T03:46:23 < mawk> how are the ladyboys going
2021-02-05T03:46:35 < mawk> do you feed then everyday like they told at the pet sho
2021-02-05T03:46:37 < mawk> p?
2021-02-05T03:47:18 -!- AndrevS [~AndrevS@2001:982:2b90:1:dea6:32ff:feb3:6c02] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2021-02-05T03:49:59 < jly> never seen any tbh
2021-02-05T03:50:26 < mawk> in paris I've seen a few
2021-02-05T03:50:35 < mawk> not thai ones though
2021-02-05T03:50:58 < jly> ah
2021-02-05T03:51:15 < mawk> regular homegrown french ladyboys
2021-02-05T03:51:31 -!- fenug [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2021-02-05T03:51:44 < Steffanx> Is jly alright? So you know?
2021-02-05T03:51:48 < jly> do
2021-02-05T03:51:54 < Steffanx> Do*
2021-02-05T03:51:59 < mawk> even the brother in law of my ex gf became one
2021-02-05T03:52:02 < jly> jly is fine
2021-02-05T03:52:13 < mawk> he was wearing dresses and green long hair before so there were telltale signs
2021-02-05T03:52:16 < jly> why the fuck is steffan awake
2021-02-05T03:52:22 < jly> isn't it like 3am in dutchland?
2021-02-05T03:52:29 < mawk> I'm in dutchland too
2021-02-05T03:52:37 < mawk> I'm sleeping in Steffanx's bed
2021-02-05T03:52:46 < jly> you guys both on the gear?
2021-02-05T03:52:58 < mawk> with an error margin of a few hundred km
2021-02-05T03:53:15 < mawk> no I'm into hot russians lately
2021-02-05T03:53:16 < jly> hmm
2021-02-05T03:53:18 < Steffanx> Its only almost 3 am ... jly
2021-02-05T03:53:26 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2021-02-05T03:53:37 < jly> ye
2021-02-05T03:54:21 < Steffanx> Safu
2021-02-05T03:56:36 -!- AndrevS [~AndrevS@2001:982:2b90:1:dea6:32ff:feb3:6c02] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T03:56:36 < mawk> sulfate?
2021-02-05T03:57:43 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2021-02-05T03:58:14 -!- kakium69 [b05d2806@176-93-40-6.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
2021-02-05T03:59:17 < qyx> Steffanx: isnt it workday tomorrow?
2021-02-05T03:59:27 < mawk> yes
2021-02-05T03:59:32 < mawk> much workday tomorrow
2021-02-05T03:59:33 < qyx> or you have kurzarbeit in dutchland too?
2021-02-05T03:59:45 < mawk> I want kurzarbeit
2021-02-05T04:00:01 < Steffanx> No, its a national holiday tomorrow
2021-02-05T04:00:01 < mawk>  wow I have no meetings tomorrow
2021-02-05T04:00:06 < mawk> I can sleep all day
2021-02-05T04:00:07 < Steffanx> But dont tell mawk 
2021-02-05T04:00:17 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T04:01:55 < qyx> I didn't even notice we had national holidays this year
2021-02-05T04:01:58 < qyx> *last year
2021-02-05T04:02:17 < Steffanx> Its a lie btw, but dont tell him
2021-02-05T04:02:29 < Steffanx> Its just me having a day off 
2021-02-05T04:02:31 < qyx> sure
2021-02-05T04:02:39 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T04:02:43 < mawk> lol you were afraid I wouldn't put my alarm clock
2021-02-05T04:04:57 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-02-05T04:05:23 < jly> hmmm
2021-02-05T04:08:35 < mawk> when are you visiting dutchland jly
2021-02-05T04:08:50 < jly> when the trouble starts
2021-02-05T04:10:59 < mawk> hmm
2021-02-05T04:11:07 < mawk> when the collapse begins?
2021-02-05T04:11:28 < mawk> when we're past shell oil peak?
2021-02-05T04:11:41 < mawk> shale*
2021-02-05T04:14:45 < jly> fuck knows
2021-02-05T04:18:51 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a I2C slave example for STM that you guys would recommend?
2021-02-05T04:19:06 < ColdKeyboard> I'm having issues getting the I2C IRQ firing once address is called
2021-02-05T04:19:50 < ColdKeyboard> I2C is initialized, enabled the IRQ, set the NVIC priority, started HAL_I2C_Slave_Receive_IT etc.
2021-02-05T04:20:12 < ColdKeyboard> But still nothing other than I notice SCL line goes LOW after I2C address matching STM's is present on the bus
2021-02-05T04:21:33 < aandrew> it's vanishingly rare that I use i2c slave on any mcu
2021-02-05T04:22:03 < aandrew> I do remember it's kind of goofy though on every one I've used it on, mostly because you've gotta get the interrupt for the address and decide quickly if you want to ACK
2021-02-05T04:26:10 < ColdKeyboard> Oh interesting... it didn't respond when I had clock streching disabled but once I enabled it's ACK-ing the address
2021-02-05T04:26:43 < ColdKeyboard> Life is hard. It's even harder when you are dumb or don't know what are you doing
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2021-02-05T05:02:39 < qyx> so trying libopencm3 on H7
2021-02-05T05:15:20 < Laurenceb> I need to get myself a H7 discovery
2021-02-05T05:15:25  * Laurenceb zzz
2021-02-05T05:18:28 < qyx> ok the linker magic is not here
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2021-02-05T05:25:29 < qyx> compiled, flashed, hardfault
2021-02-05T05:28:58 < qyx> ok, no ram at 0x20000000
2021-02-05T05:29:51 < mawk> where is it
2021-02-05T05:30:39 < qyx> 0x24000000
2021-02-05T05:30:48 < qyx> works now, led blinks
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2021-02-05T06:41:05 < R2COM> mawk what you think of this debian distro: https://sparkylinux.org/
2021-02-05T06:41:07 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-05T06:47:53 < aandrew> anyone here good with C++? I'm not and I'm trying to understand a template
2021-02-05T06:58:47 < aandrew> template <>
2021-02-05T06:58:47 < aandrew> void FooData<bool>::updateDataFromBuffer(const uint8_t* buff)
2021-02-05T06:58:47 < aandrew> { const bool new_data = *reinterpret_cast<const bool*>(buff); data = new_data;
2021-02-05T06:58:47 < aandrew> }
2021-02-05T07:01:09 < aandrew> there's different types in <bool> -- it looks like it's creating a bunch of updateDataFromBuffer(uint8_t *src) but I don't see where "data" is
2021-02-05T07:03:18 < aandrew> oh I see it in the class in the .h file ... T data{0};
2021-02-05T07:03:20 < aandrew> wtf is this hsit
2021-02-05T07:04:07 < aandrew> looks like "T" means whatever specific datatype is used when this particular class is instantiated
2021-02-05T07:09:38 < aandrew> yep I think so
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2021-02-05T07:10:24 < aandrew> <template T> struct FooData : public FooInterface { T data{0}; ... };
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2021-02-05T07:43:21 < R2COM> that is specialization when theres only <>
2021-02-05T07:43:28 < R2COM> theres general definition usually before that
2021-02-05T07:48:29 < R2COM> in the definition one would put variations of such function (specialized) function, each for certain subste of data
2021-02-05T07:48:50 < R2COM> like if its enmu, say each function specialized for certain type of that enum etc
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2021-02-05T09:00:28 < zyp> aandrew, calling the template argument T is just convention, doesn't have any inherent meaning
2021-02-05T09:00:47 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2021-02-05T09:01:36 < zyp> and like R2COM said, what you've got is a template specialization, it means «for bool, do this thing instead of using the general template»
2021-02-05T09:11:54 < zyp> my async stuff is doing that a lot to special case for void
2021-02-05T09:12:21 < zyp> «store the returned value of type T here, except for void don't store anything»
2021-02-05T09:13:06 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/r94go
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2021-02-05T10:56:05 < mawk> how is your day off Steffanx ?
2021-02-05T10:56:27 < mawk> give this to R2COMMIE when he comes back: http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html
2021-02-05T12:04:28 -!- sorki [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T12:04:33 < Thorn> in a diode/zener/etc. schematic symbol, which pin is 1 and which is 2?
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2021-02-05T12:05:15 < jpa-> Thorn: depends totally on schematics editor
2021-02-05T12:05:29 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-02-05T12:05:36 < jpa-> in kicad you can click on the pin to see it in status bar
2021-02-05T12:05:59 < Thorn> I mean how it should be
2021-02-05T12:06:01 < Thorn> I'm overhauling my libraries and editing my symbols
2021-02-05T12:07:27 -!- sorki is now known as srk
2021-02-05T12:08:00 < jpa-> apparently 1 = cathode is more common, and some googling suggests it is an IPC standard
2021-02-05T12:13:21 < Thorn> ok so I did it the right way. thanks
2021-02-05T12:16:05 < mawk> you had 50% chance
2021-02-05T12:16:19 < mawk> I reported sick today
2021-02-05T12:16:24 < mawk> withdrawal is getting harder
2021-02-05T12:16:39 < mawk> good thing it's friday that makes me a 3 days weekend and hopefully monday it's over
2021-02-05T12:16:45 < mawk> over enough that I can sleep again
2021-02-05T12:19:29 < zyp> Thorn, I usually call diode pins C and A rather than 1 and 2
2021-02-05T12:20:29 < Thorn> what's the point in having both Designator and Name in schematic pins in altium disaster anyway?
2021-02-05T12:20:44 < Thorn> I understand most people use numbers in Designator
2021-02-05T12:21:12 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-05T12:21:44 < zyp> designator is the physical name, name is the logical name
2021-02-05T12:21:50 < zyp> i.e. location vs function
2021-02-05T12:22:03 < Thorn> and then pin maps look like 1: 1,2,3 2: 4 3: 5,6,7,8,9
2021-02-05T12:22:21 < Thorn> extremely easy to make a mistake
2021-02-05T12:22:28 < zyp> wat
2021-02-05T12:22:54 < Thorn> this is for a PowerPack mosfet
2021-02-05T12:23:33 < Thorn> it has 8 or 9 footprint pins (depending on how you draw it) but the symbol has 3 pins unless you overlay multiple pins on top of each other
2021-02-05T12:24:11 < Thorn> *powerpak
2021-02-05T12:24:33 < jpa-> you could draw the footprint to have multiple '1' pads, if you are drawing it yourself
2021-02-05T12:27:59 < Thorn> why do texas instruments do it like this https://pasteboard.co/JMVRZ5X.png ?
2021-02-05T12:28:15 < zyp> I'd probably just call the footprint pads G/D/S
2021-02-05T12:37:04 < karlp> this is exactly what dongs and aandrew were ranting about the other day
2021-02-05T12:37:24 < zyp> heh
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2021-02-05T13:16:02 < Thorn> is an optocoupler a discrete component or an IC?
2021-02-05T13:16:56 < zyp> yes
2021-02-05T13:33:30  * karlp girns
2021-02-05T13:36:06 < karlp> gnome-extension-pomodoro thing locksup. nice one
2021-02-05T13:39:42 < englishman> lmao
2021-02-05T13:39:46 < englishman> nice time-saver.
2021-02-05T13:42:12 < karlp> bit annoying. used to work well, broke years ago, seems it's updated... isn't.... or something
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2021-02-05T14:08:13 < kakium69> thunderbolt 3 -> pci-e apparently costs moneys
2021-02-05T14:08:35 < kakium69> chinaboards 130-150e
2021-02-05T14:10:24 < zyp> that much?
2021-02-05T14:11:25 < zyp> $65: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001215831558.html
2021-02-05T14:11:56 < effractur> yes to m.2
2021-02-05T14:12:06 < effractur> but to normal connector + power delivery
2021-02-05T14:12:33 < zyp> just pop in an adapter board
2021-02-05T14:18:14 < kakium69> isn't thunderbolt just a mux for usb-c pins?
2021-02-05T14:18:39 < effractur> muxing DP/PCIe and usb3 signals on the same wire
2021-02-05T14:18:44 < effractur> but same as usb4
2021-02-05T14:19:18 < zyp> kakium69, no?
2021-02-05T14:19:51 < zyp> thunderbolt in itself is an external pcie transport
2021-02-05T14:22:28 < BrainDamage> who doesn't want dma access to the first machine with a port uncovered
2021-02-05T14:25:31 < kakium69> my dell has some sort of manager for thunderbolt
2021-02-05T14:25:40 < kakium69> you need to accept device first
2021-02-05T14:25:59 < effractur> yes it has VT-D magic and a form of user authentication
2021-02-05T14:26:07 < effractur> but often the docks of the vendor are whitelisted
2021-02-05T14:32:43 < drzacek> hello there
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2021-02-05T14:36:50 < drzacek> I'm starting to play with the new black pill board, the stm32f411ceu6 thingy. I read somewhere, that I can add additional flash chip (on the underside there are empty pads). Where can I find those flash modules? Are they all compatible? Are those expensive?
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2021-02-05T14:38:34 < karlp> first ask yourself what you are doing that for...
2021-02-05T14:38:52 < karlp> and perhaps, read where you read that, what it says about what you can put there?
2021-02-05T14:39:07 < drzacek> I'm trying to find that info again, it was some time ago
2021-02-05T14:43:14 < drzacek> https://forum.micropython.org/viewtopic.php?t=7154 ?
2021-02-05T14:47:26 < drzacek> okay, so around 5euro for 10pack (don't see option to buy cheaper/single part here)
2021-02-05T14:49:00 < zyp> karlp, is there no zero_mode for the pymodbus client?
2021-02-05T14:54:28 < desperek> drzacek, you could read the datasheet...
2021-02-05T14:55:24  * karlp shrugs
2021-02-05T14:55:33 < karlp> I've nto used the client code much, if at all.
2021-02-05T14:56:29 < zyp> customer asks for registers starting at 30000 and 40000, is it reasonable to assume zero_mode=True?
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2021-02-05T14:58:11 < zyp> oh, wait, client assumes zero mode, so setting zero_mode=True on server context gives me same numbering on server/client
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2021-02-05T15:01:31 < drzacek> desperek, I could
2021-02-05T15:02:07 < drzacek> but it feels like they contain too much information and finding what I need is harder than googling it
2021-02-05T15:02:13 < desperek> good luck then
2021-02-05T15:02:30 -!- kakium69 [b05d2806@176-93-40-6.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T15:02:49 < desperek> ill bet that youll change that thought at the end of the day :P
2021-02-05T15:03:04 < drzacek> why?
2021-02-05T15:03:51 < desperek> drzacek, because there are many highly specific things in electronics and thats what datasheets are for
2021-02-05T15:04:03 < desperek> they arent long for nothing
2021-02-05T15:04:10 < desperek> and they have bookmarks thankfully
2021-02-05T15:04:13 < desperek> tocs*
2021-02-05T15:04:42 < drzacek> well, true, but chip datasheet is too general, a board documentation would be more helpful, but since it's some chinesium thingy, the documentation is meh, if any at all
2021-02-05T15:05:15 < desperek> board documentation?
2021-02-05T15:05:40 < drzacek> yeah, the specific device that I have in my hand
2021-02-05T15:05:43 < drzacek> with stm32 on board
2021-02-05T15:06:29 < desperek> and you can find that specific mcu datasheet
2021-02-05T15:06:47 < desperek> and hence deduce how to connect the flash
2021-02-05T15:07:02 < desperek> because you probably can find what pins are there etc...
2021-02-05T15:07:08 < desperek> do you have a multimeter or something
2021-02-05T15:08:15 < desperek> its not like the board does some rocket science but some routing 
2021-02-05T15:08:39 < drzacek> tru dat
2021-02-05T15:09:31 < drzacek> but since this board is getting popularity and was design for some specific module, it is safe to assume the information about what modules are compatible with it is already somewhere out there among community
2021-02-05T15:09:55 < drzacek> which that forum link confirms
2021-02-05T15:14:11 < mawk> you don't need board documentation
2021-02-05T15:14:19 < mawk> you only need µc documentation
2021-02-05T15:15:26 < mawk> the only thing you maybe want to know about the board is: is there a HSE crystal and which freq
2021-02-05T15:15:31 < mawk> but that's not even useful in most cases
2021-02-05T15:15:45 < BrainDamage> well, there are useful board infos
2021-02-05T15:16:01 < BrainDamage> regulator current capability, how the pins are wired, etcc
2021-02-05T15:18:00 < zyp> I think it's called a schematic :)
2021-02-05T15:18:53 < BrainDamage> schematic is part of the documentation :p
2021-02-05T15:22:22 -!- Laurenceb [2ed0c806@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T15:22:26 < Laurenceb> muh radarrrr
2021-02-05T15:22:38 < Laurenceb> adjusting the chip clock rate was a silly idea
2021-02-05T15:23:52  * Laurenceb has a new idea
2021-02-05T15:24:21 < Laurenceb> using PRN to select ~8m and ~11m from radar as individual bins, then correlate versus time delay
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2021-02-05T15:27:36 < Laurenceb18> I need really accurate speed above anything else
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2021-02-05T15:51:40 < mawk> I do radar too at job Laurenceb18 
2021-02-05T15:51:45 < mawk> come get hired
2021-02-05T15:51:54 < mawk> you will live in dutchland
2021-02-05T15:52:02 < Laurenceb18> lol
2021-02-05T15:52:16 < Laurenceb18> have you come across such an "enhanced doppler radar" ?
2021-02-05T15:52:20 < effractur> ah yes one of the dutch export secors
2021-02-05T15:52:23 < effractur> radar techonolgy
2021-02-05T15:52:25 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T15:52:27 < Laurenceb18> regular doppler radar just isnt very good
2021-02-05T15:52:47 < Laurenceb18> when you are trying to calculate vehicle speed
2021-02-05T15:53:04 < mawk> we just have to detect distance of static object
2021-02-05T15:53:10 < mawk> so I guess we don't have this enhanced stuff
2021-02-05T15:53:11 < Laurenceb18> ah, easy lol
2021-02-05T15:53:15 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-05T15:53:18 < mawk> well easy when the object is a car
2021-02-05T15:53:26 < mawk> but not when it's low density vaporous shit
2021-02-05T15:53:38 < Laurenceb18> I think this technique I'm describing suffers from code/carrier phase ambiguity
2021-02-05T15:53:39 < mawk> and have to filter out spiders making their webs in front of the sensor and humidity and reflections on metal wall and so on
2021-02-05T15:53:47 < Laurenceb18> heh
2021-02-05T15:53:59 < Laurenceb18> what frequency?
2021-02-05T15:54:00 < qyx> are you measuring cloud height?
2021-02-05T15:54:13 < Laurenceb18> qyx: no, hyperloop speed in a tunnel
2021-02-05T15:54:17 < Laurenceb18> from the hyperloop
2021-02-05T15:54:22 < mawk> it was for me
2021-02-05T15:54:23 < Laurenceb18> - the hyperloop pod
2021-02-05T15:54:33 < jadew> Laurenceb18, what's the problem with doppler radar?
2021-02-05T15:54:37 < mawk> more like garbage qyx so it can be like dead leaves for instance
2021-02-05T15:54:51 < mawk> and it's not neatly organized into the garbage container
2021-02-05T15:54:54 < Laurenceb18> jadew: the wall is rough so it has continuously variable phase
2021-02-05T15:54:56 < mawk> it's all over the place
2021-02-05T15:55:09 < Laurenceb18> so you dont get a nice clean peak in the spectrum
2021-02-05T15:55:27 < Laurenceb18> so you have to average and the dynamic response goes way down
2021-02-05T15:55:34 < jadew> what speed accuracy are you after?
2021-02-05T15:55:53 < Laurenceb18> about +-50ppm at 1khz update rate
2021-02-05T15:56:06 < Laurenceb18> for traction control
2021-02-05T15:56:10 < mawk> Laurenceb18: 80GHz
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2021-02-05T15:56:35 < Laurenceb18> mawk: oh cool, do you do custom PCBs  ?
2021-02-05T15:57:22 < mawk> not the radar board
2021-02-05T15:57:28 < mawk> but custom enclosure and lense
2021-02-05T15:57:30 < Laurenceb18> rigid coax and modules?
2021-02-05T15:57:44 < mawk> just daughter board with pcb to pcb connector
2021-02-05T15:57:48 < Laurenceb18> ah thats what I was thinking for hyperloop
2021-02-05T15:57:56 < Laurenceb18> horn antenna
2021-02-05T15:58:05 < mawk> here it's pcb antenna
2021-02-05T15:58:09 < Laurenceb18> but it would prob be 24GHz with infenion ics
2021-02-05T15:58:11 < Laurenceb18> ok
2021-02-05T15:58:20 < Laurenceb18> on FR4 or Rogers type stuff?
2021-02-05T15:58:27 < jadew> wait, when you said the walls, you meant the tube of the train?
2021-02-05T15:58:43 < Laurenceb18> jadew: yeah
2021-02-05T15:58:50 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210205145846318.png like this
2021-02-05T15:58:53 < Laurenceb18> radar is on the train
2021-02-05T15:59:19 < Laurenceb18> mawk: ah that Ti thingy, it uses Rogers/FR4 multilayer right?
2021-02-05T15:59:24 < jadew> wtf...
2021-02-05T15:59:35 < jadew> why would you use radar to measure speed?
2021-02-05T15:59:40 < mawk> yes Laurenceb18 apparently
2021-02-05T15:59:45 < Laurenceb18> jadew: for traction control
2021-02-05T15:59:54 < jadew> but aren't there other means?
2021-02-05T16:00:00 < Laurenceb18> not really
2021-02-05T16:00:12 < Laurenceb18> you could paint barcode down the tunnel I guess
2021-02-05T16:00:18 < jadew> that's what I was thinking
2021-02-05T16:00:21 < jadew> tachometer style
2021-02-05T16:00:28 < Laurenceb18> but they your optical sensor gets covered it muck and it breaks
2021-02-05T16:00:35 < Laurenceb18> *in
2021-02-05T16:01:22 < Laurenceb18> they have a rpi "optical sensor" atm...
2021-02-05T16:01:40 < jadew> sounds very high tech
2021-02-05T16:01:46 < mawk> why not really Laurenceb18 ?
2021-02-05T16:01:57 < mawk> it's because you want to know exact position too or what?
2021-02-05T16:02:08 < Laurenceb18> mawk: need very high accuracy
2021-02-05T16:02:15 < mawk> ah
2021-02-05T16:02:19 < Laurenceb18> traction control is very demanding for accuracy
2021-02-05T16:02:31 < mawk> and you don't get high enough accuracy with regular odometer on the wheel?
2021-02-05T16:02:33 < mawk> and why
2021-02-05T16:02:51 < mawk> tachymeter rather
2021-02-05T16:02:58 < Laurenceb18> well if the wheel is slipping you cant get useful info from tacho
2021-02-05T16:03:19 < Laurenceb18> and wheels always slip by ~0.1 to 1%
2021-02-05T16:03:52 < mawk> a
2021-02-05T16:03:54 < jadew> Laurenceb18, I don't think it can be done
2021-02-05T16:04:03 < jadew> maybe if you also know the exact position
2021-02-05T16:04:03 < Laurenceb18> at very high speed the traction control becomes very demanding
2021-02-05T16:04:14 < mawk> you have to believe, jadew 
2021-02-05T16:04:19 < mawk> otherwise Laurenceb18 gets fired
2021-02-05T16:04:24 < jadew> haha
2021-02-05T16:04:27 < Laurenceb18> jadew: its cant be done with regular radar...
2021-02-05T16:04:32 < Laurenceb18> thats for sure
2021-02-05T16:04:42 < Laurenceb18> regular doppler stands no chance of working
2021-02-05T16:04:55 < mawk> I'd say optical was a good idea
2021-02-05T16:05:00 < mawk> just stick with that
2021-02-05T16:05:04 < Laurenceb18> they dont like optical
2021-02-05T16:05:04 < mawk> and figure something out for the mud
2021-02-05T16:05:07 < mawk> they should
2021-02-05T16:05:28 < jadew> use a 5 kW laser, that should take care of the mud :D
2021-02-05T16:05:30 < Laurenceb18> due to muck, it has t be zero maintenance, 24Ghz is popular...
2021-02-05T16:05:32 < Laurenceb18> lol
2021-02-05T16:06:03 < mawk> yeah do wipers for the lense or whatever
2021-02-05T16:06:05 < mawk> to clean it up
2021-02-05T16:06:26 < mawk> I don't see how optical system speed or accuracy could be beaten here
2021-02-05T16:07:19 < Laurenceb18> prob not, but 24Ghz should be capable of sub mm accuracy
2021-02-05T16:07:27 < Laurenceb18> which can meet the spec
2021-02-05T16:08:17 < Laurenceb18> so my plan is to use PRN to select ~8m and ~11m ranges and output as complex values
2021-02-05T16:08:34 < Laurenceb18> then correlate with variable time lag
2021-02-05T16:08:52 < jadew> I have the solution
2021-02-05T16:09:12 < jadew> if it works, tell them they owe me some shares when they go public
2021-02-05T16:09:19 < jadew> magnetic instead of optic
2021-02-05T16:09:24 < jadew> mud problem gone
2021-02-05T16:11:10 < qyx> if you manage to do stm32->prn->radio tx ->radio rx->stm32, me wanna
2021-02-05T16:11:11 < Laurenceb18> heh
2021-02-05T16:11:38 < qyx> add some NN/convolution stuff and do SAR
2021-02-05T16:11:59 < qyx> maybe not that easy but sounds good
2021-02-05T16:12:05 < mawk> time lag of what Laurenceb18 
2021-02-05T16:12:07 < Laurenceb18> qyx: I'm looking at BGT24LTR11
2021-02-05T16:12:32 < Laurenceb18> but I'm not sure how many comprimises would have to be made for stm32 + bgt24ltr11 operation
2021-02-05T16:12:48 < Laurenceb18> mawk: time lag of the tunnel wall from 11m range to 8m range
2021-02-05T16:12:58 < mawk> ah
2021-02-05T16:13:15 < Laurenceb18> like an optical mouse applied to radar
2021-02-05T16:13:30 < jadew> speaking of hyperloop, has anyone bought tesla stocks after the market crash?
2021-02-05T16:13:36 < jadew> they've gone up like 1600%
2021-02-05T16:13:46 < Laurenceb18> ikr, mental
2021-02-05T16:14:24 < qyx> Laurenceb18: they are using some M0+
2021-02-05T16:14:38 < qyx> not even +
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2021-02-05T16:16:56 < Laurenceb> fucking internets
2021-02-05T16:17:45 < Laurenceb> qyx: stm32 adc isnt fast enough to sample the ~50Mhz output PRN (sent using spi)
2021-02-05T16:18:13 < Laurenceb> but this radar thingy can use some hacks to get round that limitation
2021-02-05T16:18:32 < Laurenceb> a generic SAR system wouldn't be so easy
2021-02-05T16:18:42 -!- Laurenceb18 [2ed0c806@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-02-05T16:19:53 < Laurenceb> of course, there is such a thing as a PRN with more than one correlation peak...
2021-02-05T16:20:11 < Laurenceb> theres got to be ways to haxor a SAR
2021-02-05T16:21:23 < Laurenceb> e.g. DMA to two spi peripherals with a address offset then some hardware mixing
2021-02-05T16:21:57 < Laurenceb> or using multiple weird PRN codes with multiple correlation peaks
2021-02-05T16:22:59 < Laurenceb> prob more practical than 2 X ~1GHz ADC and crazy fast FPGA
2021-02-05T16:24:10 < Laurenceb> >Laurenceb18 like an optical mouse applied to radar
2021-02-05T16:24:32 < Laurenceb> ^actully most similar to a laser mouse, as you have coherent illumination and an interference pattern
2021-02-05T16:25:34 < Laurenceb> oh wait there is a meganoob way to do this
2021-02-05T16:25:57 < Laurenceb> 2 X ebay 24Ghz people detecting doppler modules
2021-02-05T16:26:26 < Laurenceb> place one about 20cm in front of the other and make sure they are ~>1Mhz apart in frequencies
2021-02-05T16:26:36 < Laurenceb> then use a traduino to correlate the two outputs
2021-02-05T16:26:47 < karlp> zyp: if they said 30000 and 40000 they really meant input registers and holding registers, both starting at 0....
2021-02-05T16:27:18 < karlp> but yeah, zero=True is "the one true way" in my mind.
2021-02-05T16:28:22 < Laurenceb> option 1) ebay PIR alternative shit and tarduino option 2) massive custom pcb with non standard core, multiple 1GHz ADCs and a very high end FPGA
2021-02-05T16:28:44 < Laurenceb> non standard core = not FR4
2021-02-05T16:29:08 < Laurenceb> fuck it I'm gunna build it
2021-02-05T16:29:28 < karlp> freemodbus oddly does an explicit addr+=1, like, wtf dude.. why: https://github.com/cwalter-at/freemodbus/blob/master/modbus/functions/mbfuncholding.c#L182
2021-02-05T16:30:00 < PaulFertser> Modbus register addressing is a mess thanks to the standard itself.
2021-02-05T16:30:03 < Laurenceb> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173960967539
2021-02-05T16:30:08 < Laurenceb> ^problem solved
2021-02-05T16:30:49 < Steffanx> what standard PaulFertser ?
2021-02-05T16:30:56 < mawk> he's alive
2021-02-05T16:31:00 < mawk> you're alive Steffanx 
2021-02-05T16:31:10 < Steffanx> Im not convinced
2021-02-05T16:31:15 < mawk> :(
2021-02-05T16:31:21 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: the modbus specification?
2021-02-05T16:31:28 < mawk> I bought small e-ink screens
2021-02-05T16:31:32 < mawk> to make stm32 e-ink shit
2021-02-05T16:31:51 < mawk> to display bitcoin/euro price on my wall
2021-02-05T16:31:56 < mawk> tasteful millenial decoration
2021-02-05T16:31:57 < PaulFertser> "Registers are addressed starting at zero. Therefore input registers numbered 1-16 are addressed as 0-15." FFS
2021-02-05T16:32:03 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T16:33:06 < karlp> what's PRN standfor qyx/lolrence?
2021-02-05T16:33:27 < Steffanx> appart from that it sucks nothing else is really specified. Like want to have little string? Floats, >16 integers etc. Just come up with something yourself.
2021-02-05T16:33:35 < mawk> pairwise relational network ?
2021-02-05T16:33:45 < mawk> to detect feature in images
2021-02-05T16:33:48 < mawk> or something
2021-02-05T16:34:14 < karlp> PaulFertser: well, the "standard" came decades after the facts on the ground, so not surprising really.
2021-02-05T16:34:45 < karlp> the standards do at least say, "hey, so there's "regisgter numbers" (one based) and "addresses" (zero based), trya nd be careful what you're talking about"
2021-02-05T16:36:57 < karlp> zyp: referring to "30000" and "40000" also marks them as oldschool, as it's a style of describing things where the function codes were basically rolled into the addresses.
2021-02-05T16:37:23 < karlp> so you had 10000 and 20000 for coils and shti too, and only 10k in each range, ignoring the 16bit actual address.
2021-02-05T16:38:00 < karlp> in my world at least, we only see that sort of notation in reall old scada shit where everything is done by hand
2021-02-05T16:38:53 < karlp> PaulFertser: the problem with freemdbus is that it reads the "address", does a +1 to make it a "register" then leaves it in a variable called address, and passes it to the user callback as a parameter called "address" :)
2021-02-05T16:39:17 < zyp> well, it doesn't explicitly say that, I just got a list of registers they want which is split into readonly and read/write registers
2021-02-05T16:39:47 < karlp> eyah, so traditional shit was 30k or 40k was readonly and other was read/write, I enever remember which one's which
2021-02-05T16:39:54 < zyp> readonly regs are numbered sequentially from 30050, rw regs are numbered sequentially from 40100
2021-02-05T16:40:00 < karlp> that corresponded to "read_input_registers" and "read_holding_registers"
2021-02-05T16:40:07 < karlp> which are different function codes.
2021-02-05T16:40:22 < zyp> yeah, list also has function codes
2021-02-05T16:40:31 < karlp> and these days it's often impelemented by the device just ignoring writes to what it consideres readonly.
2021-02-05T16:40:44 < karlp> they want registers from 50 and from 100 then,
2021-02-05T16:40:49 < karlp> 100%
2021-02-05T16:41:13 < zyp> oh, that's a point I hadn't considered
2021-02-05T16:41:48 < karlp> you can eitehr swallow it, or even reply with exceptions, depending on how wild you want to complicate things....
2021-02-05T16:42:21 < zyp> for now I've done self.registers = ModbusSparseDataBlock({i.value: 0 for i in ModbusReg})
2021-02-05T16:42:48 < zyp> and stuff that into all four types in the slave context
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2021-02-05T16:43:42 < karlp> it's entirely up to you whether input/holding are the _same_ backign data, or separate data too.
2021-02-05T16:43:51 < karlp> likewise for coils shit, if you feel that's worth supporting.
2021-02-05T16:44:13 < zyp> I don't see any reason they shouldn't be same when they don't conflict
2021-02-05T16:44:16 < PaulFertser> karlp: hah, yes, nasty, would be better if it called it "number".
2021-02-05T16:44:16 < karlp> some implementations let you access bits in holding registers individually using the coils functions, but fuck bothering with that complexity
2021-02-05T16:44:36 < PaulFertser> I was doing -- right at the beginning of the callback.
2021-02-05T16:44:40 < karlp> yeah, me too.
2021-02-05T16:44:55 < zyp> I mean, there's a ton of redundancy in how this shit is specified now, considering there's both function codes, 30000 vs 40000 and 50 vs 100
2021-02-05T16:44:56 < karlp> I've resisted removing the additions from our fork of it to try and minimize the patches we keep
2021-02-05T16:45:12 < karlp> I don't know about the 50 and 100, that's your definitions
2021-02-05T16:45:34 < qyx> karlp: pseudorandom number sequence
2021-02-05T16:45:35 < karlp> but like, there's no real expectation or norm that input register 50 is the same data as holding register 50.
2021-02-05T16:45:42 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-05T16:45:54 < zyp> but customer specced it like that
2021-02-05T16:45:58 < qyx> used in in synthetic aperture radars, sonars, etc.
2021-02-05T16:45:58 < karlp> sure.
2021-02-05T16:46:02 < karlp> qyx: thanks.
2021-02-05T16:46:26 < karlp> zyp: yeah, makign them be the same can make it esaier to integrate with some existing tooling, but it's very much vendor+device defined.
2021-02-05T16:46:49 < karlp> it's, "here's many many balls of string. you can make a noose, or a web, or 5000 interconnected nooses"
2021-02-05T16:47:06 < zyp> I guess what I'm probably gonna do once I've put together some more logic is wrap this up in a .exe, send to customer and ask «does this respond as you expect?»
2021-02-05T16:47:16 < karlp> reasonable :)
2021-02-05T16:47:20 < karlp> what's the rough otuline here?
2021-02-05T16:47:33 < karlp> you're building a "new" replacement that's compatible to some old device?
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2021-02-05T16:48:03 < Laurenceb> karlp: PRN =  pseudo random noise
2021-02-05T16:48:08 < zyp> no, new device that's going to integrate into customer's customer's system
2021-02-05T16:48:11 < Laurenceb> a sequence with known autocorrelation
2021-02-05T16:48:58 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna prototype this with dual CDM324, too easy
2021-02-05T16:50:00 < Laurenceb> then I can move onto PRN based design that will be less attitude sensitive
2021-02-05T16:51:02 < Laurenceb> surely someone has built this before....
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2021-02-05T18:10:23 < karlp> heh, thought I'd try and digikey what was the "best" choice for a 22uF cap size, 
2021-02-05T18:10:42 < karlp> datasheet recommends some 1210 sized parts,
2021-02-05T18:10:56 < karlp> I know even 10uF in 0603 is prtty optimistic,
2021-02-05T18:11:32 < karlp> so Ithough the cheapest ones on digikey might be the bigger sizes, but no. cheapest 22uF is 0805, then 0603.
2021-02-05T18:11:41 < karlp> then later 1206
2021-02-05T18:12:07 < karlp> has technology advanced enough from when this datasheet wsa written to use 0805 now?
2021-02-05T18:21:57 < qyx> I am using 1206 22u/10V or so
2021-02-05T18:22:19 < qyx> when I was doing stpmic1 recently, they used only 0402 and 0603
2021-02-05T18:23:55 < qyx> but I would say 0603 22u is like 1u when biased at anything other than 0 V
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2021-02-05T18:43:33 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a good I2C slave IT receive example I can take as an example?
2021-02-05T18:44:30 < ColdKeyboard> I'm trying to run STM32L011 as an I2C slave and IT is firing but MCU keeps reentering I2C1_IRQHandler even thou I clear I2C flags
2021-02-05T19:24:38 < jadew> code from trading SDK: new RemoteCertificateValidationCallback(SSLHelper.TrustAllCertificatesCallback)
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2021-02-05T19:48:32 < dongs> ColdKeyboard: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/ports/stm32/i2cslave.c sadly this is most readable
2021-02-05T19:48:54 < karlp> did you ever convince zyp to do bit banged i2c slave for you?
2021-02-05T19:48:58 < dongs> yes
2021-02-05T19:49:00 < dongs> and its done
2021-02-05T19:49:06 < dongs> but it needs F1 to run at ~96mhz 
2021-02-05T19:49:08 < dongs> to be usable
2021-02-05T19:49:27 < dongs> maybe you can run it on teh new rageberrypi420 
2021-02-05T19:49:28 < karlp> that's ok, we're all on fModern now, no problems right?
2021-02-05T19:49:32 < dongs> yeah, for sure
2021-02-05T19:49:42 < karlp> nah, would have to port it to rpi-pio-asm shitz first ;)
2021-02-05T19:52:59 < mawk> nice jadew 
2021-02-05T19:55:33 < qyx> dongs: nice code, thanks
2021-02-05T19:56:38 < dongs> qyx, np. the i2c master is not bad also (and works on f0/l0/modern-ish type stuff)
2021-02-05T20:09:25 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks dongs
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2021-02-05T20:18:49 < ColdKeyboard> This is weird. I2C IRQ keeps firing all the time after it's first triggered
2021-02-05T20:19:13 < ColdKeyboard> I'm clearing i2c flags and also clearing nvic flag but still it keeps firing on and on
2021-02-05T20:19:21 < ColdKeyboard> I2C bus is idle btw
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2021-02-05T20:35:15 < LoneElf> Does anybody know if it is possible to do Injected ADC conversion in interrupt mode while DMA mode is in use for regular conversion?
2021-02-05T20:37:42 < jpa-> AFAIK yes, you can separately enable end-of-trigger DMA and IRQ requests for injected/regular
2021-02-05T20:39:37 < LoneElf> So I've got my injected mode sampling working properly, but when I call HAL_ADC_Start_DMA(), injected mode sampling stops working for some reason (it was started with HAL_ADCEx_InjectedStart_IT(). Each seems to work when the other is disabled though, oddly enough.
2021-02-05T20:40:19 < jpa-> what does the function do?
2021-02-05T20:42:24 < qyx> isn't there some priority woodoo?
2021-02-05T20:42:34 < qyx> aren't you running adc full speed?
2021-02-05T20:42:43 < qyx> so injeected never takes place?
2021-02-05T20:42:51 < qyx> *voodoo
2021-02-05T20:44:09 < LoneElf> So honestly, some of the details are lost on me. But after reading some docs, it seemed to me that the the Injected mode should essentially interrupt the DMA mode, and that when the injected conversion was done, the continuous regular conversion would continue.
2021-02-05T20:44:40 < jpa-> yeah, reference manual is quite clear on these but may be difficult to do through hardware aberration layer
2021-02-05T20:48:15 < jadew> https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/01/us/rochester-police-pepper-spray-child/index.html
2021-02-05T20:50:57 < jadew> https://www.ktvu.com/news/suspect-arrested-in-deadly-attack-on-84-year-old-man-in-san-francisco
2021-02-05T21:04:12 < mawk> was it your grandfather jadew ?
2021-02-05T21:04:42 < jadew> I don't have grandfathers alive :(
2021-02-05T21:05:40 < jadew> I met my great grandmother once tho
2021-02-05T21:05:57 < mawk> me too
2021-02-05T21:06:03 < mawk> why link that then
2021-02-05T21:06:33 < jadew> because USA! USA! USA!
2021-02-05T21:06:51 < mawk> lol
2021-02-05T21:16:57 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-05T21:17:11 < Laurenceb> this is too easy
2021-02-05T21:17:39 < Laurenceb> two CDM324 modules duck taped to a piece of wood with an stm32 olimexino
2021-02-05T21:19:17 < qyx> thats your hyperloop?
2021-02-05T21:21:29 < Laurenceb> speed sensor
2021-02-05T21:39:10 < Steffanx> And then Laurenceb finds out the sensors have some unpredictable delay 
2021-02-05T21:39:21 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-02-05T21:39:35 < Laurenceb> they are just two diodes and a transistor
2021-02-05T21:40:01 < Steffanx> oh, no digital shit in between?
2021-02-05T21:40:30 < Laurenceb> nope just three components and transmission lines on pcb
2021-02-05T21:41:01 < Laurenceb> the frequencies drift so it will require a frequency / time offset search
2021-02-05T21:41:27 < Laurenceb> but thats easily doable in real time as its <150kHz intermediate frequency
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2021-02-06T00:58:47 < Laurenceb> hah got it
2021-02-06T00:59:11 < Laurenceb> BGT24LTR11 with super secrit PRN code used to modulate the PLL
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2021-02-06T02:00:51 < qyx> STM32 Innovation Live
2021-02-06T02:00:54 < qyx> anyone registered?
2021-02-06T02:02:15 < mawk> what's that
2021-02-06T02:02:26 < mawk> I want to innovate too
2021-02-06T02:02:46 < mawk> ah found it
2021-02-06T02:02:54 < mawk> I want to innovate so I will register
2021-02-06T02:03:12 < qyx> another one
2021-02-06T02:03:14 < qyx> [Free webinar] Discover and understand the Device Tree from A to Z, to help you with your next embedded Linux projec
2021-02-06T02:03:22 < qyx> my friend-less facebook is spammed by stm instead
2021-02-06T02:03:45 < mawk> lo
2021-02-06T02:03:46 < mawk> l
2021-02-06T02:12:13 < mawk> https://event.on24.com/event/29/64/34/9/rt/1/logo/event/bn_webcastlobby_900x200.jpg
2021-02-06T02:12:17 < mawk> guy looks focused
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2021-02-06T02:32:14 < qyx> interesting, I forgot to soledr both 2u2 VCAP capacitors on H7 and it still works
2021-02-06T02:32:26 < qyx> lets see what other did I forget
2021-02-06T02:32:51 < qyx> some decoupling
2021-02-06T02:32:55 < qyx> looks like all of it
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2021-02-06T03:10:37 < emeb_mac> heh - Vcap w/o bypass. I've done that too.
2021-02-06T03:33:32 < Laurenceb> hrrrgggg
2021-02-06T03:33:39 < Laurenceb> simulation says not really
2021-02-06T03:33:51 < Laurenceb> muh radar has too much carrier phase ambiguity
2021-02-06T03:34:13 < Laurenceb> thats the problem of 100Mhz chip code and 24GHz carrier
2021-02-06T03:49:50 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2021-02-06T04:46:07 < mawk> I found perfect distro for you R2COM : http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html
2021-02-06T05:06:45 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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2021-02-06T05:56:31 < dongs> isnt that old as fuck
2021-02-06T06:05:27 -!- kakium69 [b05d2806@176-93-40-6.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
2021-02-06T06:06:34 < aandrew> lol that is ancient
2021-02-06T06:07:00 < dongs> i mean literally nobody would host a website on fucking sourceforget
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2021-02-06T06:49:04 < R2COM> sup my israeli friend
2021-02-06T06:49:56 < R2COM> how are things going
2021-02-06T06:50:04 < R2COM> long time no see, was really busy few months
2021-02-06T07:21:27 < dongs> yeah same
2021-02-06T07:21:29 < dongs> blogging furiously
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2021-02-06T10:47:28 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/ths4521_capacitive.png   the graph on the left is confusing me
2021-02-06T10:47:54 < jpa-> for 1pF, no series resistance needed; but then for 10pF, it needs 100 ohm; and when the capacitance increases it needs less
2021-02-06T10:48:44 < jpa-> and sure enough, with Ro = 25ohm, i needed to increase output capacitance from 12pF to 100pF to even out the response
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2021-02-06T15:05:14 < Laurenceb> muh radar
2021-02-06T15:05:26  * Laurenceb worked out why doppler radar is crap for moving vehicles
2021-02-06T15:05:43 < Laurenceb> its obvious really, the "wall" or ground isnt really moving
2021-02-06T15:05:45 < Laurenceb> derp
2021-02-06T15:05:59 < Laurenceb> because there is always some more ground in about the same position
2021-02-06T15:07:20 < Laurenceb> you get a really broad spectral peak and the best you can do is fit a model to it
2021-02-06T15:08:40 < BrainDamage> weren't you going with concrete pipes?
2021-02-06T15:08:44 < Laurenceb> yup
2021-02-06T15:08:47 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-06T15:08:52 < Laurenceb> they reflect 24GHz
2021-02-06T15:09:00 < Laurenceb> to a certain extent
2021-02-06T15:09:01 < BrainDamage> then you should be able to see the seams
2021-02-06T15:09:07 < Laurenceb> heh yeah
2021-02-06T15:09:32 < Laurenceb> but they will be hidden in a ton of noise with conventional doppler
2021-02-06T15:09:56 < Laurenceb> from existing studies, conventional doppler with zero crossing detect is ~+-25% error
2021-02-06T15:10:16 < Laurenceb> with model fitting is +-1 to 0.2% error with poor dynamic performance
2021-02-06T15:10:32 < Laurenceb> my model is giving +-0.15% error just with PRN
2021-02-06T15:10:58 < Laurenceb> then +-50ppm error with PRN and autocorrelation with a PLL
2021-02-06T15:11:17 < Laurenceb> but there is a carrier cycle ambiguity with the autocorrelation method
2021-02-06T15:11:53 < Laurenceb> I think the +-0.15% method can be applied first and used to identify where the PLL should be locked onto
2021-02-06T15:12:21 < Laurenceb> then all the wall noise cancels and the only errors are from PLL jitter of <0.1mm
2021-02-06T15:13:25 < Laurenceb> ^so the PRN code has two autocorrelation peaks about 6m apart, then the baseband is autocorrelated
2021-02-06T15:13:55 < Laurenceb> that cancels out most of the changes in wall phase/ampltiude
2021-02-06T15:14:07 < Laurenceb> but there are still fading issues :S
2021-02-06T15:15:00 < Laurenceb> dual CDM324 still works amazingly well lol
2021-02-06T15:15:15 < Laurenceb> just two physically seperated radars
2021-02-06T15:19:12 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer's_water_fuel_cell#Meyer%27s_death
2021-02-06T15:19:14 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-06T15:31:58 < Steffanx> Must be family of this guy Laurenceb https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloot_Digital_Coding_System
2021-02-06T15:32:55 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-02-06T15:37:52 < Laurenceb> woah I didnt realise H7 now went to 550Mhz
2021-02-06T15:37:53 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-02-06T15:39:35 < Steffanx> Better install lunix and get that PA running
2021-02-06T15:41:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-high-performance-mcus/stm32h7-series/stm32h725-735/stm32h735rg.html
2021-02-06T15:41:42 < Laurenceb> >3.6Msps 16bit
2021-02-06T15:41:52 < Laurenceb> I bet its not 16ENOB
2021-02-06T15:45:33 < Laurenceb> so many busses
2021-02-06T15:47:16 < Laurenceb> the BDMA is interesting
2021-02-06T15:47:30 < Laurenceb> DMA miles from the core to manage data from peripheral busses
2021-02-06T15:49:23 < Laurenceb> oh and it can control backup domain, nice
2021-02-06T15:51:09 < Laurenceb> M7 is dual issue, nice
2021-02-06T15:52:40 < englishman> emsloot
2021-02-06T15:56:37 < Laurenceb> woah it has backup battery charger
2021-02-06T15:57:13 < Laurenceb> who needs F7, H7 is where its at
2021-02-06T15:57:18 < Laurenceb> F7 is like another F2
2021-02-06T15:57:24 < Steffanx> F7 is nice.
2021-02-06T15:57:34 < Steffanx> 722 is cheap.
2021-02-06T15:57:54 < englishman> nice story there stef.
2021-02-06T15:58:04 < Laurenceb> F1->F4->H7 tbh
2021-02-06T15:58:12 < englishman> how much money did you invest in emsloot?
2021-02-06T15:58:20 < Steffanx> Cache etc. does help quite a bit for some tasks
2021-02-06T15:58:32 < Laurenceb> F3 has some nice analogue but crappy core
2021-02-06T15:58:51 < Laurenceb> F103 is the atmega168p of stm32
2021-02-06T15:58:59 < Steffanx> 0.0 euro bucks englishman . I was like 6 when the guy died. 
2021-02-06T15:59:06 < Steffanx> Ohno 10
2021-02-06T15:59:07 < englishman> shouldn't you be considering G series these days
2021-02-06T15:59:21 < Laurenceb> most smallish projects can be done easily on F103
2021-02-06T15:59:28 < englishman> oh you are young
2021-02-06T15:59:29 < Steffanx> No, fuck f103
2021-02-06T15:59:35 < englishman> yes, fuck f103
2021-02-06T15:59:38 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-02-06T15:59:47 < Laurenceb> it has a proper RTC
2021-02-06T15:59:51 < englishman> f103 is 13 years old
2021-02-06T15:59:52 < Steffanx> We have F0, G0, or maybe L0 now 
2021-02-06T16:00:09 < Steffanx> For smallish projects
2021-02-06T16:00:21 < Laurenceb> I hate the fancy RTCs
2021-02-06T16:00:32 < Laurenceb> have to write a wrapper to convert back to Unix time
2021-02-06T16:00:46 < englishman> just use HAL
2021-02-06T16:00:56 < Steffanx> Or esp32
2021-02-06T16:01:07 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-02-06T16:06:47 < jpa-> Laurenceb: hmm, AFAIK doppler should work on smooth moving surfaces also, because the interaction of photons is with individual electrons; compare with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_surface_velocimeter
2021-02-06T16:07:16 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-02-06T16:07:25 < Laurenceb> thats an interesting physics question
2021-02-06T16:07:26 < Steffanx> Mmmh
2021-02-06T16:07:46 < jpa-> i do agree that e.g. ultrasonic doppler wouldn't work, because the sound waves are reflected over larger area
2021-02-06T16:07:50 < Laurenceb> but how can a smooth sliding metal sheet generate doppler
2021-02-06T16:08:12 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2021-02-06T16:08:18 < Laurenceb> it cant reflect back either
2021-02-06T16:08:41 < Laurenceb> so yeah you are right
2021-02-06T16:09:05 < Laurenceb> its just that there is no well defined doppler frequency
2021-02-06T16:09:09 < jpa-> now that's your real problem, but it just depends on how you place your antennas - if you can get them in e.g. 45 deg angles opposite sides of surface normal, it should work
2021-02-06T16:09:22 < Laurenceb> nope I tried simulating that
2021-02-06T16:09:39 < Laurenceb> the wall phase varies randomly and broadens the spectrum a load
2021-02-06T16:11:26 < jpa-> put a transmitter at the end of pipe and measure doppler from that, after all the attenuation is pretty low in a closed pipe
2021-02-06T16:13:13 < Laurenceb> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421711/pdf/sensors-17-00751.pdf
2021-02-06T16:13:17 < Laurenceb> look at figure 3
2021-02-06T16:13:26 < Laurenceb> nasty
2021-02-06T16:22:10 < Laurenceb> heh H7 ADC is only just over 12ENOB
2021-02-06T16:22:24 < Laurenceb> barely better than F103 but a lot faster
2021-02-06T16:23:19 < Steffanx> Fuck F103.
2021-02-06T16:23:53 < Laurenceb> lmao stay triggered
2021-02-06T16:24:08 < Steffanx> i recall its not even mr d.'s favourite anymore
2021-02-06T16:25:15 < mawk> mister dee
2021-02-06T16:25:19 < mawk> sounds like porn actor name
2021-02-06T16:25:34 < Laurenceb> nice, the 12bit ADC can do >8Msps
2021-02-06T16:25:39 < mawk> you have onlyfans Laurenceb ?
2021-02-06T16:25:54 < Laurenceb> F3 btfo'd
2021-02-06T16:25:55 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-02-06T16:35:56 < Laurenceb> ooh nice, H7 support 125Mhz spi master
2021-02-06T16:36:01 < Laurenceb> perfect for radar
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2021-02-06T16:42:45 < englishman> is Laurenceb trying to invent the optical mouse
2021-02-06T16:43:16 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-02-06T16:43:20 < Laurenceb> with radar
2021-02-06T16:44:09 < Laurenceb> to create a non shitty radar based vehicle ground speed sensor
2021-02-06T16:44:31 < Laurenceb> technically the laser mouse as the radiation is coherent
2021-02-06T16:47:05 < Laurenceb> fading is a potential issue, it could cause the tracker to lose lock
2021-02-06T16:47:39 < Laurenceb> it should be possible to make a fade resistant radar that adjusts the carrier frequency to avoid fade
2021-02-06T16:48:11 < Laurenceb> surely someone has made such a thing before....
2021-02-06T16:49:29 < Laurenceb> I did have a laser mouse a while ago, it would work on literally any surface but did seem to suffer from fading and lost lock
2021-02-06T16:50:38 < Laurenceb> inb4 mm wave gaming mouse
2021-02-06T16:50:44 < Laurenceb> muh kickstarter megabux
2021-02-06T17:11:01 < Laurenceb> wait I have a wacky solution copied from laser projectors
2021-02-06T17:11:24 < Laurenceb> motor with an asymmetric  dielectric disc spinning in front of the antenna
2021-02-06T17:11:55 < Laurenceb> to literally "break up" interference patterns
2021-02-06T17:13:09 < englishman> https://arxiv.org/pdf/2102.01522.pdf
2021-02-06T17:13:54 < Laurenceb> >when you add optics solutions to ur mm wave tronics
2021-02-06T17:14:06 < Laurenceb> lool that paper
2021-02-06T17:15:04 < Laurenceb> >university of Oxford
2021-02-06T17:15:07 < Laurenceb> lmfao
2021-02-06T17:15:35 < Laurenceb> pity ST never released their pico laser projector
2021-02-06T17:16:04 < jpa-> if you are going with spinning discs, just put a spinning disc in front of a mouse sensor to keep the dirt off the lens and you're done ;)
2021-02-06T17:16:32 < Laurenceb> loll
2021-02-06T17:17:49 < Laurenceb> actually you could stick little antenna in the edge of the horn connected to varycaps
2021-02-06T17:18:23 < Laurenceb> the "tx plane phase molester"
2021-02-06T17:19:57 < sync> Laurenceb: why not use something like the correvit sensors?
2021-02-06T17:19:59 < Laurenceb> laser projectors use a "beam plane phase modulator" disc thats physically spinning
2021-02-06T17:20:57 < Laurenceb> sync: ooh nice, thats literally the problem I'm trying to solve
2021-02-06T17:21:03 < Laurenceb> but still, its optical
2021-02-06T17:22:07 < Laurenceb> the design goal is to achieve the same results with mm wave radar
2021-02-06T17:23:43 < Laurenceb> modulator discs in gaming mice wouldnt work unfortunately
2021-02-06T17:24:06 < Laurenceb> as the image sensor would have to be crazy fast to keep up with the changing fringes
2021-02-06T17:29:41 < Laurenceb> wait I think I got it
2021-02-06T17:29:55 < Laurenceb> inb4 I lose right to patent epin invention
2021-02-06T17:30:14 < Laurenceb> three horn antenna, rx in middle with a tx either side
2021-02-06T17:30:44 < Laurenceb> phase shifters on each tx, then dither the phase shifts +-,-+,+-,-+  etc
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2021-02-06T17:35:31 < Laurenceb> or just a 2x2 MIMO system
2021-02-06T17:35:55 < Laurenceb> like a BGT24MTR12N
2021-02-06T17:36:38 < Laurenceb> that should raise dropout probability to ^4
2021-02-06T17:37:06 < Laurenceb> atm its about 12%, so itd go to 1 in 2e4
2021-02-06T17:42:17 < Laurenceb> hmm you could do the same with a laser gaming mouse using multiple laser diodes
2021-02-06T17:43:05 < Laurenceb> monologue ++
2021-02-06T17:47:54 < Laurenceb> I'm a perman00b.... https://www.shutterstock.com/search/microwave+antenna <-anyone know how those pan shaped antenna are designed internally?
2021-02-06T17:48:16 < Laurenceb> s/pan/drum
2021-02-06T17:50:24 < englishman> arent they parabolic with a rim
2021-02-06T17:50:55 < Laurenceb> yeah, but why the whole side part?
2021-02-06T17:51:04 < Laurenceb> reduce interference perhaps?
2021-02-06T17:51:46 < englishman> maybe just structural
2021-02-06T17:51:54 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-06T17:52:08 < englishman> in my experience with yagis that kind of shielding doesnt do much
2021-02-06T17:52:41 < englishman> a parabolic is already highly directional
2021-02-06T17:54:33 < Laurenceb> aha
2021-02-06T17:54:35 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_antenna#Types
2021-02-06T17:54:51 < Laurenceb> >Shrouded dish – Sometimes a cylindrical metal shield is attached to the rim of the dish.[3] The shroud shields the antenna from radiation from angles outside the main beam axis
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2021-02-06T18:06:46 < Laurenceb> this looks good for testing doppler radar shit, thanks for the info sync
2021-02-06T18:06:49 < Laurenceb> https://www.kistler.com/files/document/000-807e.pdf?callee=frontend
2021-02-06T18:15:28 -!- tcth_ [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-02-06T18:28:46 < R2COM> it would be nicer if ctaglist plugin of vim handled class specializations and show them in tree, it just shows duplicate base class name
2021-02-06T18:29:17 < R2COM> also in verilog its kinda weak too, only distinguishes basic types and modules and thats it
2021-02-06T18:31:38 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/gibchoccygf?lang=en
2021-02-06T18:35:12 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-02-06T18:35:16 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/Gplavallee72/status/1357481446173077505/photo/1
2021-02-06T18:35:33 < Laurenceb> two trolls one photo
2021-02-06T18:44:43 < mawk> lol
2021-02-06T18:45:15 < Laurenceb> he cant keep getting away with it
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2021-02-06T19:06:12 < R2COM> what mawk
2021-02-06T19:06:29 < mawk> yes R2COM ?
2021-02-06T19:06:39 < R2COM> nvm
2021-02-06T19:07:06 < R2COM> mawk do you think wxWidgets is good platform for different GUI stuff for hardware?
2021-02-06T19:07:23 < R2COM> to develop on linux, and whenever needed do quick ports on  win10
2021-02-06T19:07:30 < R2COM> (mostly linux)
2021-02-06T19:07:54 < mawk> good I don't know
2021-02-06T19:07:56 < mawk> but it's possible es
2021-02-06T19:07:59 < mawk> have you looked into Qt?
2021-02-06T19:08:01 < mawk> you like C++
2021-02-06T19:09:10 < R2COM> Qt is corp-dependent
2021-02-06T19:09:20 < R2COM> yes i like c++ and wxWidgets is in c++
2021-02-06T19:09:34 < R2COM> wxWidgets is independent Qt you depend on corp, rite?
2021-02-06T19:09:37 < jpa-> Qt having a corporation behind it is mostly a plusside IMO
2021-02-06T19:09:50 < R2COM> but its not quiet free
2021-02-06T19:09:57 < R2COM> there are limitations
2021-02-06T19:10:10 < mawk> corp dependant?
2021-02-06T19:10:19 < mawk> Qt will always stay open source
2021-02-06T19:10:24 < mawk> they have an agreement with KDE
2021-02-06T19:10:27 < R2COM> (i actually messed with Qt before, even had projects with Qt+qwt graph lib, worked nicely)
2021-02-06T19:10:33 < jpa-> you mean it is not fully LGPL?
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2021-02-06T19:10:39 < R2COM> jpa- i guess yes
2021-02-06T19:10:44 < jpa-> because AFAIK everything in Qt is available under GPL
2021-02-06T19:11:15 < R2COM> Kicad is written in wxWidgets btw
2021-02-06T19:11:28 < effractur> qt is duallicenced afaik 
2021-02-06T19:11:36 < effractur> with a CLA
2021-02-06T19:11:39 < R2COM> wxWidgets seems to implement all kinds of gui features one might need isnt it
2021-02-06T19:12:16 < jpa-> a decade ago i liked gtkmm best of the wxwidgets/qt/gtk triplet - but they've all advanced a lot since, and even back then all of them were good IMO
2021-02-06T19:12:42 < R2COM> so... what to go for wxWidgets or Qt for GUI dev under linux (and maybe 1-5% win10 in rare occasions)? and what would favorable arguments towards one or another be
2021-02-06T19:13:07 < R2COM> or anything else if one knows what goes strong now?
2021-02-06T19:13:17 < jpa-> but in general if you want painless cross-platform, i wouldn't recommend C++
2021-02-06T19:13:29 < R2COM> what then?
2021-02-06T19:14:05 < R2COM> im not gonna learn another programming language.... even c++ already takes my time
2021-02-06T19:14:13 < R2COM> and id rather stay there
2021-02-06T19:14:18 < mawk> python + tkinter
2021-02-06T19:14:24 < jpa-> in some cases, html + javascript could be a reasonable option; in other cases, python
2021-02-06T19:14:38 < R2COM> i am investing time in pyuthon now
2021-02-06T19:15:30 < R2COM> so if we omit that cross platform thing occasional difficulties for now
2021-02-06T19:15:36 < R2COM> is wxWidgets good option for GUI?
2021-02-06T19:15:38 < R2COM> in c++
2021-02-06T19:15:49 < R2COM> or is Qt still better, and if yes then why
2021-02-06T19:16:42 < R2COM> (some people say cuz you can port it to embedded etc... but the moment it goes there it becomes $$$$$)
2021-02-06T19:17:07 < jpa-> either works, there aren't going to be any radical difference in "goodness"
2021-02-06T19:17:19 < R2COM> what do you use
2021-02-06T19:17:26 < effractur> qt is the way to go
2021-02-06T19:17:30 < effractur> but licencing can be costly
2021-02-06T19:17:36 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-06T19:17:41 < R2COM> yes dont wanna get trapped into that shit
2021-02-06T19:17:56 < jpa-> last i did GUI stuff for PC, i used qt, but that was because of client demand
2021-02-06T19:17:58 < effractur> but if you need crossplatform stuff qt is the only option that is not shitty
2021-02-06T19:18:31 < R2COM> but how come Kicad team managed to deliver cross platform for win and linux in wxWidgets?
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2021-02-06T19:18:32 < jpa-> i wouldn't call wxwidgets or gtk particularly shitty either
2021-02-06T19:18:47 < jpa-> and with C++ you'll need to test on every platform anyway
2021-02-06T19:18:52 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-06T19:18:52 < R2COM> that
2021-02-06T19:19:06 < effractur> R2COM: with wxwidgets you need to implement afaik a lot of the stuff your self 
2021-02-06T19:19:17 < effractur> where qt already has a lot of stuff avaible buildin
2021-02-06T19:19:18 < R2COM> hm ok
2021-02-06T19:19:26 < jpa-> i agree that in the past i've hit more cross-platform differences with wxwidgets than with qt, but they were mostly cosmetic or otherwise trivial (like button sized wrong and text not fitting it)
2021-02-06T19:19:34 < jpa-> effractur: what stuff?
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2021-02-06T19:19:56 < effractur> like buttons / UI elements
2021-02-06T19:20:00 < jpa-> uh?
2021-02-06T19:20:06 < effractur> and OS intergrations to do filesystems related stuff
2021-02-06T19:20:11 < effractur> well not like default buttons
2021-02-06T19:20:23 < effractur> but it has been a while ago that it did something with wxwdigets
2021-02-06T19:20:37 < jpa-> well that is true, but C++ already has a lot of filesystem stuff in standard library, and boost can complement it well
2021-02-06T19:20:38 < R2COM> is there a graphical form/GUI builed with wxWidgets? or you need to code every button and GUI layout appearance?
2021-02-06T19:20:54 < jpa-> IMO it is a bit weird how Qt wants to bundle *everything* into the GUI library
2021-02-06T19:21:28 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2021-02-06T19:21:36 < jpa-> R2COM: there is at least wxglade, possibly something better also nowadays
2021-02-06T19:23:25 < R2COM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxFormBuilder
2021-02-06T19:23:46 < R2COM> 2 year old stable last release
2021-02-06T19:23:54 < R2COM> but well..if stuff works it doesnt need monthly update
2021-02-06T19:24:44 < antto> my IDE has wxSmith
2021-02-06T19:25:21 < jpa-> one option that hasn't been mentioned yet is FLTK - it does not have nearly as much features as qt / wxwidgets, but for simple stuff the simplicity is a great benefit, and the application binaries are a lot smaller also
2021-02-06T19:25:39 < antto> i've been thru FLTK
2021-02-06T19:26:02 < antto> didn't use it tho, ended up going with allegro, and later i went with wx
2021-02-06T19:26:17 < R2COM> i think i saw usage of virtual functions in wxWidgets
2021-02-06T19:26:30 < antto> disqualified cue-tea as an option as soon as i saw the license
2021-02-06T19:26:34 < R2COM> my question is, if its dynamic polymorphism its generally slower than static polymorp[hism rite
2021-02-06T19:26:34 < R2COM> so
2021-02-06T19:26:40 < R2COM> why they didnt do static there?
2021-02-06T19:26:43 < R2COM> with templates?
2021-02-06T19:26:52 < R2COM> wouldnt GUI be faster etc?
2021-02-06T19:27:05 < antto> you think wx GUIs are "slow" ?
2021-02-06T19:27:16 < jpa-> no, the virtual function overhead is so trivial to even drawing 10x10 pixel widget
2021-02-06T19:27:36 < R2COM> what you mean? there is no slow down?
2021-02-06T19:27:55 < jpa-> dynamic polymorphism slowdown is just one or two extra pointer dereferences
2021-02-06T19:28:05 < antto> bruh, some folks make GUIs by running webpage in a f*cking browser
2021-02-06T19:28:20 < R2COM> doesnt it add up and makes GUI slower etc?
2021-02-06T19:28:42 < jpa-> people lost in template hell make GUI slower by making more stupid code :)
2021-02-06T19:29:07 < R2COM> no... it wont happen
2021-02-06T19:29:15 < R2COM> no stupid code must be created
2021-02-06T19:29:25 < antto> R2COM, do you know some programs made with wx?
2021-02-06T19:29:33 < R2COM> its not that hard to overall analyze and not do overly deep crazy stuff
2021-02-06T19:29:42 < jpa-> i don't consider virtual function overhead to be worth worrying even on STM32 outside IRQ handlers, on PC it is totally trivial
2021-02-06T19:29:44 < antto> programs you use
2021-02-06T19:29:52 < R2COM> ok got it
2021-02-06T19:30:14 < R2COM> i wonder if virtual functions used in game engines...
2021-02-06T19:30:26 < R2COM> and if its also trivial overhead there too...that is intense stuff
2021-02-06T19:30:29 < R2COM> just curious
2021-02-06T19:31:10 < jpa-> (though i'm not even sure how you'd do a GUI toolkit with static polymorphism - widget has to be able to have children of bazillion different types?)
2021-02-06T19:31:10 < R2COM> quickj search says almost same thing in that area too
2021-02-06T19:31:21 < R2COM> yeah true
2021-02-06T19:31:30 < R2COM> dunno just saw it and asked
2021-02-06T19:32:25 < jpa-> i guess the most important overhead of dynamic polymorphism is that it prevents inlining of code - i once got 2x speedup in an IRQ handler by getting rid of a virtual function call and replacing it with static call
2021-02-06T19:32:53 < jpa-> because that inlined the whole function and enabled further optimization of the inner loop
2021-02-06T19:34:54 < R2COM> arent your IRQ handlers extern "C" ?
2021-02-06T19:35:08 < R2COM> can you show your IRQ implementations?
2021-02-06T19:35:51 < jpa-> extern "C" in the IRQ handler definition does not make any difference to what happens inside it
2021-02-06T19:35:54 < antto> i think i gotta take the code i wrote and separate it from the same54_audio project, into something like a "library" to slap it on gitl0b
2021-02-06T19:36:10 < jpa-> but no, it was years ago, not gonna dig it up
2021-02-06T19:36:20 < antto> coz there are a bunch more SAM chips with the same peripherals
2021-02-06T19:36:52 < R2COM> inside it you had some function sharing variable with code in main?
2021-02-06T19:37:04 < R2COM> and virtual function was involved?
2021-02-06T19:37:34 < jpa-> inside it i had code like      for (int i = 0; i < BLOCKSIZE; i++) { handler->process(data[i]); }
2021-02-06T19:38:17 < jpa-> with  class MyHappyHandler: public IHandler { virtual void process(const data_t &data); }
2021-02-06T19:38:34 < R2COM> ok
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2021-02-06T20:08:01 < R2COM> uhh
2021-02-06T20:08:25 < R2COM> reading IDR of portA, and P0 reads as 0, but in board its connected to high
2021-02-06T20:08:27 < R2COM> wtf
2021-02-06T20:08:50 < R2COM> MODER=in, speed=high, pupdr=na
2021-02-06T20:09:01 < R2COM> port clock enabled
2021-02-06T20:09:06 < R2COM> wonder what im missing
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2021-02-06T21:15:59 < zyp> hrm
2021-02-06T21:16:52 < zyp> I was gonna flash BMP to the onboard stlink on the f7 disco, planning to play around with trace on it
2021-02-06T21:17:08 < zyp> but I'm not sure where the other BMP went
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2021-02-06T22:03:27 < Steffanx> The cat ate it
2021-02-06T22:04:28 < zyp> found it under a pile of mess, just had to figure out the right one to look under
2021-02-06T22:05:18 < mawk> I flashed the firmware of my SATA usb adapter
2021-02-06T22:05:38 < mawk> I am pro haxor
2021-02-06T22:05:52 < mawk> this should get rid of drive spinning down issues
2021-02-06T22:05:59 < mawk> after ~30 minutes of not using it, the drive would power down
2021-02-06T22:06:04 < mawk> and I had to powercycle the enclosure
2021-02-06T22:06:16 < mawk> so I found a firmware update on a shady russian website so I did it
2021-02-06T22:06:18 < zyp> fun
2021-02-06T22:06:39 < PaulFertser> What shady website?
2021-02-06T22:06:47 < mawk> usbdev.ru
2021-02-06T22:06:51 < mawk> everything ending in .ru is shady
2021-02-06T22:07:35 < PaulFertser> That website seems to be useful if you need to find a program to configure USB flash device.
2021-02-06T22:08:47 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-06T22:10:14 < mawk> [951655.773485] usb 2-2: Manufacturer: JMicron
2021-02-06T22:10:16 < mawk> [951655.773492] usb 2-2: SerialNumber: 0123456789ABCDEF
2021-02-06T22:10:18 < mawk> lol
2021-02-06T22:10:20 < mawk> beautiful serial
2021-02-06T22:10:44 < mawk> so normally it supports UAS
2021-02-06T22:10:48 < mawk> so it must have mega speed
2021-02-06T22:11:21 < mawk> it could get me to 40MB/s apparently
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2021-02-06T22:18:12 < Steffanx> Yeah, that's MEGA.
2021-02-06T22:19:03 -!- ABLomas [abl@78-58-248-227.static.zebra.lt] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-06T22:25:14 < mawk> yes
2021-02-06T22:34:13 < mawk> ok seems to work
2021-02-06T22:34:17 < mawk> I told hdparm to spin the disk down
2021-02-06T22:34:24 < mawk> then spinning it up back again works fine
2021-02-06T22:38:51 < mawk> and even if it doesn't work apparently I can patch the firmware to disable spin down entirely
2021-02-06T22:39:13 < mawk> and now it does full ATA passthrough
2021-02-06T22:39:17 < mawk> so it works with SMART and all
2021-02-06T22:39:24 < mawk> who was it already that needed an enclosure capable of doing that?
2021-02-06T22:39:28 < mawk> maybe zyp or something
2021-02-06T22:39:32 < zyp> nope
2021-02-06T22:39:35 < mawk> :(
2021-02-06T22:41:04 < mawk> found it
2021-02-06T22:41:06 < mawk> fenugrec: 
2021-02-06T22:41:26 < mawk> you were talking about it last month
2021-02-06T22:42:01 < mawk> find a drive with jmicron JMS578 chip
2021-02-06T22:42:23 < fenugrec> mawk, can it start a SMART self-test without crapping itself
2021-02-06T22:42:31 < mawk> other working chips are listed here: https://linux-sunxi.org/USB/UAS#OK
2021-02-06T22:42:35 < mawk> what's the command for that?
2021-02-06T22:42:58 < fenugrec> smartctl -t short
2021-02-06T22:43:38 < fenugrec> mine is based on innostor is611 , doesn't do UAS
2021-02-06T22:43:55 < mawk> I started the test
2021-02-06T22:44:46 < fenugrec> see with mine, even jsut getting attributes with smartctl -a takes 115 seconds because one of the commands takes 113 seconds to timeout
2021-02-06T22:45:09 < mawk> yeah it didn't explode
2021-02-06T22:45:12 < mawk> -a works fine
2021-02-06T22:45:22 < fenugrec> lucky you
2021-02-06T22:45:39 < mawk> ah 20% test remaining
2021-02-06T22:45:44 < mawk> the test took longer than the 1 minute it told
2021-02-06T22:45:45 < Steffanx> lol
2021-02-06T22:45:52 < mawk> ah no I don't know
2021-02-06T22:45:57 < mawk> it looks like it's doing the test in a loop
2021-02-06T22:45:59 < mawk> is it expected?
2021-02-06T22:46:13 < mawk> that it's doing short offline tests all the time, when I enabled smart on the device
2021-02-06T22:46:32 < fenugrec> smartctl -c shows test status. the short test isn't offline, and is on-demand only (normally)
2021-02-06T22:47:08 < mawk> ah
2021-02-06T22:47:13 < mawk> so the offline test all the time is normal
2021-02-06T22:47:25 < mawk> where are results of test?
2021-02-06T22:47:27 < mawk> anyway it didn't explode
2021-02-06T22:47:30 < mawk> so get the same as me
2021-02-06T22:47:59 < R2COM> uh i found my problem...
2021-02-06T22:48:13 < fenugrec>  -a gives a self-test log somewhere. tells you what test completed when
2021-02-06T22:48:26 < R2COM> some function rewrote RCCAHBENR when enabling another port and turned off PORTA clk
2021-02-06T22:48:29 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-06T22:48:33 < Laurenceb> supppp
2021-02-06T22:48:34  * fenugrec should consider replacing main HD that has 33400 hours on-time
2021-02-06T22:48:44 < mawk> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
2021-02-06T22:48:46 < Laurenceb> anyone know how many clock cycles atan2 uses on F4 ?
2021-02-06T22:49:10 < mawk> isn't there dsp for it Laurenceb ?
2021-02-06T22:49:12 < fenugrec> yeah. Bought a disk a month ago , brand new : fails SMART self test. Still waiting for replacement
2021-02-06T22:49:17 < mawk> otherwise well just measure it
2021-02-06T22:49:29 < Laurenceb> mawk: on H7 there is...
2021-02-06T22:49:37 < mawk> ah
2021-02-06T22:49:41  * Laurenceb is wondering if radar would run on F4
2021-02-06T22:49:54 < mawk> why do you care for that Laurenceb 
2021-02-06T22:49:58 < mawk> it's just a few chips right
2021-02-06T22:50:00 < Laurenceb> lol I guess
2021-02-06T22:50:01 < mawk> you don't need to cut cost
2021-02-06T22:50:16 < Laurenceb> yeah but I'm lazy and havent used H7...
2021-02-06T22:50:19 < mawk> so then you can get the one I have fenugrec if you still need it
2021-02-06T22:50:33 < Laurenceb> is the cordic unit supported by the st dsp lib ?
2021-02-06T22:50:51 < Laurenceb> or do you use cmsis?
2021-02-06T22:51:07 < mawk> now even amazon drives have "supports UASP" in the names
2021-02-06T22:51:21 < PaulFertser>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   053   053   000    Old_age   Always       -       41672
2021-02-06T22:51:29 < mawk> https://www.amazon.fr/Bo%C3%AEtier-ORICO-Disque-supportant-Supporte/dp/B07QR82L6J/
2021-02-06T22:51:31 < mawk> I have this one I think
2021-02-06T22:52:16 < mawk> no idea Laurenceb 
2021-02-06T22:52:19 < mawk> I'm not sure it would be in cmsis
2021-02-06T22:52:59 < Laurenceb> yeah prob st specific
2021-02-06T22:53:07 < Steffanx> amazon.fr doesnt deliver in dutchland
2021-02-06T22:53:44 < Laurenceb> I think I solved the fading problem
2021-02-06T22:53:57 < Laurenceb> there is a method using alternating PRNs to avoid fading
2021-02-06T22:54:04 < mawk> use amazon.de Steffanx 
2021-02-06T22:54:04 < Laurenceb> its called "raking"
2021-02-06T22:54:10 < Laurenceb> day of the rake
2021-02-06T22:54:31 < Steffanx> amazon.nl is a thing nowadays
2021-02-06T22:54:52 < effractur> yes ant is sucks
2021-02-06T22:57:39 < Steffanx> the what
2021-02-06T22:57:45 < effractur> and*
2021-02-06T22:57:47 < effractur> tired
2021-02-06T22:57:52 < englishman> howcome there are no waffels on amazon.nl
2021-02-06T22:58:01 < effractur> waffels?
2021-02-06T22:58:07 < mawk> it sucks Steffanx 
2021-02-06T22:58:07 < effractur> becasue everybody here uses bol.com
2021-02-06T22:58:14 < mawk> I never order on it
2021-02-06T22:58:18 < mawk> it never has anything useful
2021-02-06T22:58:18 < effractur> or coolbue.nl
2021-02-06T22:58:30 < mawk> and I bought amazon prime on amazon.de specifically for shipping to NL
2021-02-06T22:58:32 < mawk> they allow it
2021-02-06T22:58:37 < englishman> no waffels on bol.com either
2021-02-06T22:58:45 < mawk> are you sure?
2021-02-06T22:59:00 < Laurenceb> https://onsizzle.com/t/day-of-the-rake
2021-02-06T22:59:01 < effractur> na for food you got dutchexpatshop.com
2021-02-06T22:59:16 < mawk> https://www.bol.com/nl/p/daelmans-mini-stroopwafels-doos-200-stuks/9200000091127019/
2021-02-06T22:59:29 < mawk> here you go englishman 
2021-02-06T22:59:29 < Steffanx> it works fine effractur 
2021-02-06T22:59:34 < englishman> i use https://waffle.express
2021-02-06T22:59:39 < Steffanx> ^^
2021-02-06T22:59:54 < englishman> which does NOT work on my machine
2021-02-06T22:59:55 < mawk> it's a real domain name
2021-02-06T22:59:57 < mawk> lol
2021-02-06T23:00:15 < englishman> oh wafel only has one f
2021-02-06T23:00:19 < englishman> i was searching for waffel
2021-02-06T23:00:22 < mawk> :O
2021-02-06T23:00:52 < Steffanx> it's email only, englishman .
2021-02-06T23:00:57 < Steffanx> websites... come on
2021-02-06T23:01:06 < englishman> not even an under construction gif
2021-02-06T23:03:28 < Steffanx> that requires me to get actual webhosting
2021-02-06T23:09:54 < zyp> hmm, on f7 do people usually just treat DTCM+SRAM1+SRAM2 as one contiguous block?
2021-02-06T23:17:06 < qyx> dtcm is not dmabable, is it?
2021-02-06T23:17:37 < zyp> appears to be, since there's a loopback path from the AHBS port
2021-02-06T23:18:33 < Steffanx> Its perfectly dmable,
2021-02-06T23:18:36 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-06T23:19:08 < zyp> DMA contention is one thing, but there's also the fact that DTCM is 64-bit, SRAM1/2 is 32-bit
2021-02-06T23:19:32 < zyp> and stack normally ends up in SRAM2 since it's at the end
2021-02-06T23:20:08 < zyp> might be faster to have stack in DTCM
2021-02-06T23:20:35 < zyp> but eh, that's pretty application specific optimizations
2021-02-06T23:21:30 < zyp> can dick around with that later once I have a setup I can actually trace performance measurements
2021-02-06T23:22:10 < zyp> then there's also the thing where flash can apparently be accessed either through AXIM port or ITCM port
2021-02-06T23:29:44 < zyp> huh, the BOOT_ADDx stuff is funky too
2021-02-06T23:30:31 < zyp> wonder if it sets SCB_VTOR accordingly by itself
2021-02-06T23:35:16 < zyp> any opinion on using AXIM vs ITCM for flash?
2021-02-06T23:52:17 < zyp> okay, so only AXIM instruction fetches would make use of the 4k icache, while only ITCM instruction fetches would make use of the 2k ART
2021-02-06T23:53:20 < zyp> but the icache would still only do 64b fetches, flash is 256b wide, ART does 256b fetches
2021-02-06T23:54:30 < zyp> i.e. the AXIM path would throw away data, making the ITCM path up to four times as fast if the flash is the bottleneck
--- Day changed Sun Feb 07 2021
2021-02-07T00:05:18 < zyp> reading through AN4667, it has some interesting benchmarks
2021-02-07T00:06:56 < zyp> looks like on f74x using ITCM is slightly faster, on f72x and f76x using AXIM is faster
2021-02-07T00:08:37 < zyp> they have respectively 4k, 8k and 16k of icache, so I bet the difference is that on the latter two, the benchmarked code fits in icache making the fetch path width moot, while on the former, the wider fetch path to the ART beneficial
2021-02-07T00:11:35 < zyp> OTOH using ITCM is faster when also having data in SRAM1 rather than DTCM, since that creates contention for the AXIM port between data accesses and instruction fetches
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2021-02-07T00:43:45 < Laurenceb> https://siliconradar.com/evalkits/#sirad-simple
2021-02-07T00:43:46 < Laurenceb> nice
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2021-02-07T01:14:46 < mawk> I received eink screen
2021-02-07T01:14:50 < mawk> now I have to play with it
2021-02-07T01:15:03 < mawk> it needs a driver board but it's not very complex
2021-02-07T01:15:15 < mawk> it's just decoupling caps and a few diodes and inductors
2021-02-07T01:15:19 < mawk> and a fet
2021-02-07T01:17:01 < mawk> probably works without all that
2021-02-07T01:18:38 < mawk> the goal is to stick a nrf52 and a battery in it
2021-02-07T01:18:53 < mawk> and make the screen remotely updateable
2021-02-07T01:21:57 < Steffanx> what screen mr mawk /
2021-02-07T01:22:04 < mawk> a eink screen
2021-02-07T01:22:07 < mawk> with much colors
2021-02-07T01:22:18 < mawk> e-ink
2021-02-07T01:22:21 < mawk> like in amazon kindle
2021-02-07T01:22:26 < mawk> but with cool colors
2021-02-07T01:22:29 < mawk> red and black
2021-02-07T01:22:43 < mawk> I wanted yellow and black but they wouldn't ship to NL
2021-02-07T01:22:54 < Steffanx> tiny one?
2021-02-07T01:23:08 < mawk> medium size
2021-02-07T01:23:12 < mawk> like half kindle screen
2021-02-07T01:23:15 < mawk> it was 40€
2021-02-07T01:23:20 < Steffanx> link?
2021-02-07T01:23:21 < mawk> 4.2 inches
2021-02-07T01:23:32 < mawk> I'm too lazy
2021-02-07T01:23:42 < mawk> try 4.2 inches e-paper red black on amazon
2021-02-07T01:24:05 < mawk> https://www.waveshare.com/4.2inch-e-paper-module-b.htm
2021-02-07T01:24:06 < mawk> this
2021-02-07T01:24:33 < mawk> they sell bigger ones, and even 7 colors ones
2021-02-07T01:24:36 < mawk> but $$$$
2021-02-07T01:24:47 < mawk> controller is builtin the screen so that's cool
2021-02-07T01:24:54 < mawk> it's directly SPI off the flexible connector
2021-02-07T01:27:55 < Steffanx> good old waveshare
2021-02-07T01:28:16 < mawk> it looks like any random chinese company
2021-02-07T01:28:16 < Steffanx> So enjoying the slow in the lockdown mr mawk ?
2021-02-07T01:28:24 < mawk> which slow?
2021-02-07T01:28:26 < mawk> snow?
2021-02-07T01:28:26 < Steffanx> waveshare is not entirely random in ##stm32
2021-02-07T01:28:28 < Steffanx> *snow
2021-02-07T01:28:31 < mawk> it's not snowing yet
2021-02-07T01:28:34 < mawk> ah
2021-02-07T01:28:47 < qyx> I am curious how fast will your eink update
2021-02-07T01:28:58 < qyx> I bet on 5s +
2021-02-07T01:29:01 < Steffanx> not? I must have been there for quite a while now...
2021-02-07T01:29:07 < mawk> I've seen people say it's 20s for the bigger ones
2021-02-07T01:29:12 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-07T01:29:17 < mawk> so maybe 5-10 for this one
2021-02-07T01:29:30 < zyp> for some reason gdb doesn't wanna run my operator overloads like it did before
2021-02-07T01:29:34 < qyx> I had 15s for 2.13"
2021-02-07T01:29:34 < mawk> I think some of their models do partial refresh
2021-02-07T01:29:38 < zyp> I wonder why
2021-02-07T01:29:55 < mawk> ah yeah that's quite slow qyx
2021-02-07T01:29:59 < qyx> partial refresh was not faster, It just didn't cause the whole are to flicker
2021-02-07T01:30:02 < mawk> is it predictable? the time it takes
2021-02-07T01:30:07 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-07T01:30:10 < qyx> it is somehow constant
2021-02-07T01:30:12 < zyp> IIRC last I used it was with riscv-gcc, but both arm-gcc and riscv-gcc are v10.1
2021-02-07T01:30:12 < qyx> *was
2021-02-07T01:30:15 < mawk> ah nice
2021-02-07T01:30:16 < qyx> for my eink
2021-02-07T01:31:09 < zyp> I wonder whether the difference is that I'm using a different gdb remote (jlink vs bmp)
2021-02-07T01:50:04 < zyp> ah, no, it's gdb being dumb
2021-02-07T01:52:01 < antto> i hit a design issue with my code now..
2021-02-07T01:52:55 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/TwfrX <- gdb doesn't understand how to deal with constexpr objects, works perfectly fine if I make a non-constexpr copy
2021-02-07T01:53:30 < antto> i made a class for a buffered, interrupt-driven usart, it has putchar(), and also a bunch of print() functions built on top of it, it can print ints, floats, strings.. etc..
2021-02-07T01:55:03 < antto> but most of those are not specific.. i mean.. it could've been a different kind of class with a different putchar() implementation and the other print() methods would still have been the same
2021-02-07T01:55:40 < Laurenceb> https://siliconradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/evalkit-simple-1.jpg
2021-02-07T01:55:42 < antto> i think it should be split in two.. but then i guess this means making putchar() virtual
2021-02-07T01:55:43 < Laurenceb> an f3
2021-02-07T01:55:48 < Laurenceb> well ok then...
2021-02-07T02:02:48 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, 41.6k hours ? living on the edge I see
2021-02-07T02:05:54 < qyx> I had 90k hours
2021-02-07T02:06:08 < qyx> on raid1, both disks were still without errors
2021-02-07T02:07:07 < fenugrec> nice, you win - my serverbox has 59k
2021-02-07T02:07:28 < qyx> I discontinued the thing though
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2021-02-07T02:34:17 < zyp> antto, or templated
2021-02-07T02:34:56 < antto> the usart is already a template..
2021-02-07T02:35:44 < antto> thing is, i made a MIDI class now, which wants to use a "usart" of course.. and it makes it inconvenient
2021-02-07T02:36:26 < antto> the MIDI class only really interracts with the usart via putchar() (for transmitting), peek() and getchar() for reception
2021-02-07T02:37:04 < antto> so right now i made it a typename T, and it just... calls those functions from T
2021-02-07T02:37:44 < antto> so it works, but if i toss a different class in it which doesn't have those functions it's gonna sh*t the pants
2021-02-07T02:38:05 < antto> i guess that's not too bad, but somehow it doesn't feel elegant.. the T part
2021-02-07T02:39:10 < zyp> so call it something more useful than T
2021-02-07T02:39:43 < zyp> the T name convention is good for templates that can take arbitrary types
2021-02-07T02:39:48 < antto> sure
2021-02-07T02:40:06 < zyp> if the template argument is a more specific thing then call it something descriptive
2021-02-07T02:40:17 < antto> you know, my IDE also shrugs on it when i call methods from it
2021-02-07T02:41:02 < zyp> well, sure, IDE doesn't know what type you'll pass in
2021-02-07T02:41:27 < antto> so this aspect is okay?
2021-02-07T02:42:02 < antto> midi class taking it as a non-specific typename, and relying on the user to toss in the right object?
2021-02-07T02:42:18 < zyp> with the C++20 concepts you can actually state requirements for the type that's being passed in, e.g. that it needs to provide specific methods
2021-02-07T02:42:30 < antto> ooooh
2021-02-07T02:42:55 < zyp> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/constraints
2021-02-07T02:42:55 < antto> hm
2021-02-07T02:43:13 < antto> even if they are not ever "used" by this?
2021-02-07T02:43:36 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-07T02:43:57 < antto> that's maybe cool, but doesn't improve it, i think
2021-02-07T02:45:10 < zyp> might get a more useful error, but otherwise no
2021-02-07T02:46:22 < zyp> anyway, virtual methods are fine too
2021-02-07T02:46:32 < zyp> just depends on how it's gonna be used
2021-02-07T02:46:44 < antto> those can't be inlined tho
2021-02-07T02:47:02 < zyp> sure they can
2021-02-07T02:51:56 < zyp> antto, https://godbolt.org/z/WMnndP inlines just fine, no vtable lookups or anything, methods are fully inlined
2021-02-07T02:56:15 < zyp> it also inlines properly even if you only call base class methods: https://godbolt.org/z/Yqbs4q
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2021-02-07T03:23:11 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-02-07T03:23:16 < kakium69> it was sauna night
2021-02-07T03:23:34 < kakium69> aka. sauna party
2021-02-07T03:23:47 < R2COM> with naked women as well?
2021-02-07T03:23:58 < kakium69> women were evicted
2021-02-07T03:24:11 < R2COM> alone?
2021-02-07T03:24:24 < kakium69> with boyz
2021-02-07T03:24:30 < R2COM> but isnt that kinda gay?
2021-02-07T03:25:09 < kakium69> it's not gay
2021-02-07T03:25:18 < kakium69> it's brotherhood
2021-02-07T03:27:27 < kakium69> sauna, vodka, seeing each others junk, talking about jubbs and shit
2021-02-07T03:28:24 < Steffanx> Did you touch other junks?
2021-02-07T03:28:32 < kakium69> no
2021-02-07T03:28:33 < Steffanx> If not, then it wasnt very gay
2021-02-07T03:28:48 < Steffanx> Its finnish 
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2021-02-07T03:44:43 < kakium69> it would be interesting experiment yes
2021-02-07T03:45:00 < kakium69> have people that have never been in sauna
2021-02-07T03:45:20 < kakium69> instruct them to go to sauna
2021-02-07T03:47:54 < kakium69> I have done it once it was fun
2021-02-07T03:48:38 < kakium69> maybe I need a sauna trailer to my car and drive to steff house
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2021-02-07T07:48:18 < R2COM> In Debian Linux install on 1 tb drive; how should I partition? 1gb swap, and rest btrfs?
2021-02-07T08:14:36 < R2COM>  Um yes
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2021-02-07T09:02:02 < ColdKeyboard> Why are some of these HAL functions taking so much space
2021-02-07T09:02:40 < ColdKeyboard> ffs I havea L011, barely anything on it and STM is taking half of flash :)
2021-02-07T09:23:11 < qyx> 1 GB swap?
2021-02-07T09:23:48 < qyx> what for, either make swap reasonably sized if you need it or avoid it
2021-02-07T09:24:08 < qyx> oh he left
2021-02-07T09:46:26 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: why are you using HAL functions?
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2021-02-07T12:05:49 < dongs> no, 1TB NTFS
2021-02-07T12:05:51 < dongs> and install windows 10
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2021-02-07T13:06:15 < antto> why btrfs tho
2021-02-07T13:06:43 < srk> why not
2021-02-07T13:08:01 < antto> coz i said "why not" myself and used it, and later when bad sectors started appearing i found a reason why not
2021-02-07T13:09:17 < srk> hard to recover data?
2021-02-07T13:09:52 < antto> afaik btrfs doesn't support scanning for bad sectors and marking them to not be used
2021-02-07T13:09:58 < antto> ext4 does
2021-02-07T13:10:07 < srk> I'm using it on ssds with async discard and works quite nice so far. with few subvolumes but no raid
2021-02-07T13:10:53 < srk> btrfs-scrub?
2021-02-07T13:12:26 < antto> wut'chu gon do with that?
2021-02-07T13:13:08 < srk> yep no bad block tracking https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Project_ideas#Bad_block_tracking
2021-02-07T13:13:34 < srk> repair if you have copies, would expect that it would track bad blocks when it finds corruption
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2021-02-07T14:02:38  * antto makes a backup copy of kakium69
2021-02-07T14:30:24 < jpa-> aren't modern drives transparently remapping bad blocks anyway, and at the point when they've run out of reserve, time to replace drive?
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2021-02-07T14:45:36 < effractur> jpa-: yes they often also report the amount of how much blocks they have left
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2021-02-07T14:58:26 < antto> hm, this parser could've returned a stringview maybe
2021-02-07T14:58:43 < antto> oops, wrong channel :/
2021-02-07T15:05:32 < Steffanx> Yeah, but you are right antto 
2021-02-07T15:05:53 < antto> am i?
2021-02-07T15:06:06 < Steffanx> Yes
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2021-02-07T15:49:30 < Laurenceb> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9227711/Woman-transforms-late-Captain-Sir-Tom-Moore-using-makeup.html
2021-02-07T15:49:34 < Laurenceb> wtf I cant even
2021-02-07T15:49:59 < Laurenceb> der thot
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2021-02-07T15:55:00 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/t/no_step_on_snek/42woTMj
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2021-02-07T15:57:05 < Laurenceb> https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1363587-gadsden-flag-dont-tread-on-me
2021-02-07T16:00:56 < mawk> https://www.pnas.org/content/110/17/6925
2021-02-07T16:01:01 < mawk> dick size matters
2021-02-07T16:01:13 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
2021-02-07T16:01:20 < Laurenceb> >someone got paid to render that
2021-02-07T16:02:11 < mawk> >Tara Jenkins, 37, from Pembrokeshire, Wales, who has autism
2021-02-07T16:02:17 < mawk> your makeup this
2021-02-07T16:02:20 < mawk> thing*
2021-02-07T16:02:21 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:02:24 < mawk> why do they mention it
2021-02-07T16:02:35 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2021-02-07T16:02:38 < Laurenceb> that explains it
2021-02-07T16:03:04 < Laurenceb> I just found it on /b/
2021-02-07T16:03:11 < Laurenceb> didnt read the article lol
2021-02-07T16:03:39 < Steffanx> One question: Why even bother mr Laurenceb? 
2021-02-07T16:03:57 < Laurenceb> bored so browsing teh chanz
2021-02-07T16:04:01 < Steffanx> Just let the woman do her thing.
2021-02-07T16:04:07 < Steffanx> yeah, that explains it
2021-02-07T16:04:39 < Laurenceb> talking of creepy renderingz
2021-02-07T16:04:44 < mawk> post my dick size article on /b/ Laurenceb 
2021-02-07T16:04:54 < mawk> make half of it insecure
2021-02-07T16:04:55 < Laurenceb> https://dormed.gr/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/AN24-Operating-Manual.pdf
2021-02-07T16:05:15 < Laurenceb> surely they could make it less horrifying
2021-02-07T16:05:26 < Laurenceb> looks like she is pregnant with zombie babby
2021-02-07T16:06:09 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:06:13  * Laurenceb helped write firmware for that thing
2021-02-07T16:06:45 < Laurenceb> 105Mhz XScale
2021-02-07T16:07:02 < mawk> it ecg for baby?
2021-02-07T16:07:06 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-02-07T16:07:08 < mawk> cool
2021-02-07T16:07:53 < Laurenceb> GE bought up the company a while ago
2021-02-07T16:08:05 < mawk> fuck GE
2021-02-07T16:08:13 < Laurenceb> lol yeah
2021-02-07T16:08:23 < mawk> they're the Microsoft of industry
2021-02-07T16:08:27 < Laurenceb> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2017/march/ge-healthcare-buys-university-fetal-monitoring-company.aspx
2021-02-07T16:08:30 < mawk> embrace extinguish stuff
2021-02-07T16:08:49 < Laurenceb> that prototype on the photo is using an F4
2021-02-07T16:08:54 < mawk> they bought french company that was the top company in nuclear turbines, and dismantled it
2021-02-07T16:09:02 < mawk> why move to xscale?
2021-02-07T16:09:13 < Laurenceb> xscale was the old one from 2007 or so
2021-02-07T16:09:21 < Laurenceb> new on is F4
2021-02-07T16:09:23 < Laurenceb> *one
2021-02-07T16:09:31 < mawk> a
2021-02-07T16:10:04 < Laurenceb> that prototype was horrible, laser cut PET ""cables"" with conductive silver based ink traces
2021-02-07T16:10:18 < Laurenceb> all nasty and scratchy, and it could crack
2021-02-07T16:10:40 < mawk> lol what
2021-02-07T16:10:47 < mawk> why
2021-02-07T16:10:53 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-02-07T16:11:09 < Laurenceb> they insisted on some autistic design goals
2021-02-07T16:11:36 < Steffanx> and you complied with that...
2021-02-07T16:11:38 < Laurenceb> original version was so much nicer, it could just have been miniaturized and had more processing added
2021-02-07T16:11:49 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: wasnt part of my jerb
2021-02-07T16:12:14 < mawk> aren't you a complying guy Steffanx though?
2021-02-07T16:12:20 < mawk> you like to mock my love of freedom
2021-02-07T16:12:35 < mawk> or are you a secret rebel like me
2021-02-07T16:13:00 < Laurenceb> it was all so the cable harness didnt have to be cleaned and reused....
2021-02-07T16:13:22 < mawk> couldn't be cleaned and reused, you mean?
2021-02-07T16:13:30 < mawk> like, planned obsolescence?
2021-02-07T16:13:44 < Laurenceb> with the new prototype the cable is designed to be disposible
2021-02-07T16:13:50 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-07T16:13:54 < mawk> so planned obsolescence
2021-02-07T16:13:56 < Laurenceb> sort of planned obsolescence
2021-02-07T16:14:10 < mawk> was there a good reason?
2021-02-07T16:14:10 < Laurenceb> but they promoted it as easier to use
2021-02-07T16:14:12 < mawk> like safety
2021-02-07T16:14:13 < mawk> ah
2021-02-07T16:14:14 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:14:24 < Laurenceb>  "no need to clean cables for reuse"
2021-02-07T16:14:30 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:14:43 < mawk> "no need to refuel your car after use, just buy a new car"
2021-02-07T16:15:22 < Laurenceb> the original cable system was a standard ECG cable available from a load of chinese suppliers, with a customised plug to the base unit
2021-02-07T16:15:25 < Steffanx> i dont know what you're talking about mr mawk 
2021-02-07T16:16:01 < mawk> yes you know deep in your mind
2021-02-07T16:16:10 < mawk> you need to open your third eye
2021-02-07T16:16:11 < Laurenceb> then it just connected to standard ECG electrodes available in any healthcare place
2021-02-07T16:16:23 < Laurenceb> couldnt have been more practical...
2021-02-07T16:16:25 < mawk> don't tell the customers Laurenceb 
2021-02-07T16:16:30 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-07T16:17:25 < Laurenceb> "a pocket mounted base unit is impractical, it has to stick onto a pregnant womans stomach with adhesive foam because that is more practical right??"
2021-02-07T16:18:24 < Laurenceb> original even had a pen style clip on the side so it could fix into the side of a pocket
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2021-02-07T16:18:53 < Laurenceb> >8months pregnant
2021-02-07T16:19:00 < Laurenceb> >something is wrong with babby
2021-02-07T16:19:12 < Laurenceb> >have to get that crazy shit glued to you for 4 days
2021-02-07T16:19:27 < Laurenceb> I should alert the radfems
2021-02-07T16:19:44 < Laurenceb> clear evidence of the patriarchy
2021-02-07T16:20:18 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:22:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpNapJK1uMg
2021-02-07T16:24:18 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T16:38:54 < Laurenceb> hmm this silicon radar 122Ghz thing is too easy
2021-02-07T16:39:02 < Laurenceb> pity the dev board has a crappy F3
2021-02-07T16:41:54 < Steffanx> crappy.
2021-02-07T16:42:03 < Steffanx> I would use a stm32f103 instead
2021-02-07T16:42:28 < Laurenceb> lul
2021-02-07T16:42:38 < Laurenceb> f103 is perfect for low end shit
2021-02-07T16:42:45 < Laurenceb> 122GHz is not low end shit
2021-02-07T16:42:51 < Laurenceb> needs at least an F7
2021-02-07T16:52:06 < Laurenceb> I think maybe I could just limit the top speed and have it run ok on F3 tho
2021-02-07T16:52:51 < Laurenceb> >the gui is javashit
2021-02-07T16:53:14 < Laurenceb> prob not to bad performance wise I guess, as the real work is done by opengl
2021-02-07T17:05:53 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-02-07T17:05:54 < mawk> https://www.startbeterdrugsbeleid.nl/
2021-02-07T17:05:57 < mawk> sign this please
2021-02-07T17:06:39 < mawk> effractur too
2021-02-07T17:07:29 < jpa-> moredrugsformawk.nl
2021-02-07T17:09:00 < Steffanx> no thanks mawk 
2021-02-07T17:09:15 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T17:10:04 < Steffanx> "wij van wc-eend adviseren wc-eend"  mawk 
2021-02-07T17:10:22 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T17:10:32 < mawk> that's how politics work
2021-02-07T17:10:50 < mawk> interested parties petition the government
2021-02-07T17:11:06 < mawk> or the assembly in this case
2021-02-07T17:12:04 < mawk> good thing they had a "do not put my name on the website" option
2021-02-07T17:12:27 < Steffanx> ill add yours then
2021-02-07T17:12:45 < mawk> lol
2021-02-07T17:12:55 < mawk> I'm probably the only guy in nl with that name combination
2021-02-07T17:13:01 < mawk> french first name and dutch last name
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2021-02-07T18:07:05 < R2COM> anyone here into CPU/MB overclocking?
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2021-02-07T18:12:03 < qyx> warning: ISO C99 doesn't support unnamed structs/unions [-Wpedantic]
2021-02-07T18:12:10 < qyx> time to start compiling using c11
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2021-02-07T18:14:32 < mawk> qyx: -std=gnu99
2021-02-07T18:14:43 < mawk> or just get rid of thats useless -pedantic
2021-02-07T18:15:00 < mawk> because I'm not sure c11 supports it better
2021-02-07T18:15:02 < mawk> it's a gnu feature
2021-02-07T18:15:35 < qyx> pedantic gives some warnings I wanted
2021-02-07T18:15:39 < qyx> in the past
2021-02-07T18:15:47 < qyx> I had gnu99
2021-02-07T18:17:44 < qyx> also ISO C99 requires at least one argument for the "..." in a variadic macro
2021-02-07T18:17:45 < qyx> meh
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2021-02-07T18:21:08 < R2COM> -std=c++2a
2021-02-07T18:21:25 < R2COM> for me
2021-02-07T18:21:30 < R2COM> ;-)
2021-02-07T18:23:27 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip72-217-88-4.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit []
2021-02-07T18:24:00 < mawk> lol
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2021-02-07T18:35:06 < Thorn> https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html
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2021-02-07T18:46:21 < PaulFertser> Fuck web
2021-02-07T18:55:28 < mawk> yeah
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2021-02-07T19:06:29 < englishman> hey emeb_mac what do you think of the new intel CEO
2021-02-07T19:07:37 < emeb_mac> englishman: haven't really kept up with that. Stopped paying attn to intel mgmt when I quit working there 16yrs ago
2021-02-07T19:08:25 < emeb_mac> some ppl I know who follow things more closely seem to think the new guy is OK
2021-02-07T19:09:56 < englishman> was his dept. near yours?
2021-02-07T19:11:43 < englishman> it's always fun to see an engineer switch to an executive role
2021-02-07T19:17:40 < emeb_mac> He was in the CPU design group and then CTO while I was there, so it's unlikely that I ever was near him. Craig Barrett was CEO while I was there and he had an office in the next building so I saw him walking the halls a few times.
2021-02-07T19:23:00 < emeb_mac> I worked in a tiny group tasked with developing chips for WiMax, so we were far from the corporate core business.
2021-02-07T19:34:38 < Thorn> looking at a LCD pinout, what's the point of assigning 1 pin (& FPC track) to anode and 3 to cathode? the current is the same in both circuits (series connection), why not assign 2 + 2 pins instead
2021-02-07T19:46:01 < qyx> maybe compatibility with rgb backlights?
2021-02-07T19:48:03 < PaulFertser> Is it true Intel has no internal knowledge base? We're asking our FAE for FSP 2.0 but all he can do is silly searches by keywords through their documents junkyard.
2021-02-07T19:52:59 < Thorn> qyx that actually makes some sense
2021-02-07T20:09:52 < Thorn> ... except why would you have RGB backlight in a RGB TFT panel
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2021-02-07T21:55:32 < englishman> non stm32 content (dont click) https://streamable.com/zruot4
2021-02-07T21:55:59 < qyx> not clicking as you say
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2021-02-07T21:56:39 < qyx> I can read all register of that invensense thing except the who am I register
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2021-02-07T22:22:29 < zyp> I'm considering loading up gdb in gdb
2021-02-07T22:25:06 < kakium69> yes
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2021-02-07T23:03:56 < Laurenceb> CMSIS DSP lib is pretty impressive
2021-02-07T23:04:09 < Laurenceb> radar might even run ok on F3
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2021-02-07T23:31:29 < Steffanx> Even F103 Laurenceb 
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2021-02-07T23:56:16 < Laurenceb> any lunix audio gurus here?
2021-02-07T23:56:39 < Laurenceb> I have a usb adaptor for mic input that shows up in arecord/alsa, but not in pulseaudio applications
2021-02-07T23:56:43 < Laurenceb> dunno what to do...
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--- Day changed Mon Feb 08 2021
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2021-02-08T00:11:51 < Laurenceb> oooohhhh
2021-02-08T00:11:53 < Laurenceb> >	active profile: <output:iec958-stereo>
2021-02-08T00:12:00 < Laurenceb> thats the problem
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2021-02-08T00:47:57 < mawk> yes Laurenceb 
2021-02-08T00:48:02 < mawk> use pacmd to switch profiles
2021-02-08T00:48:05 < mawk> or pavucontrol maybe
2021-02-08T00:48:44 < Laurenceb> yeah got it working
2021-02-08T00:48:50 < Laurenceb> graph coming up
2021-02-08T00:54:19 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/LDuT6IZ
2021-02-08T00:54:45 < qyx> so when who_am_I is not working, I have to be a bit creative in detecting the accelerometer
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2021-02-08T01:01:39 < mawk> who is who am I qyx 
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2021-02-08T01:34:28 < kakium69> you did it lurencer
2021-02-08T01:34:48 < kakium69> is the product laptop speaker based noise cancelation?
2021-02-08T01:35:32 < mawk> you're becoming a youtuber Laurenceb ?????
2021-02-08T01:35:37 < mawk> why is all this audio business
2021-02-08T01:38:18 < kakium69> talk lurencer!
2021-02-08T01:55:35 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-02-08T01:57:03 < kakium69> spill the beans Laurenceb
2021-02-08T01:59:01 -!- veegee [~veegee@142.126.187.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2021-02-08T02:10:19 < Laurenceb> I use video chatz for hyperloop meetingz
2021-02-08T02:13:18 < kakium69> elon has you in speeddial?
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2021-02-08T02:29:18 < englishman> Laurent is holding 2 billion dollars of dogecoin
2021-02-08T02:36:10 < kakium69> Laurenceb: you implemented noise-canceling for your laptop to have better chats?
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2021-02-08T03:04:59 < Laurenceb> kakium69: yeah
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2021-02-08T03:11:07 < jly> are you prepared to die for IRC?
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2021-02-08T03:15:01 < kakium69> srk was not
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2021-02-08T03:15:42 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/EGENYXV
2021-02-08T03:16:45 < Laurenceb> not so good when I properly match speech volumes
2021-02-08T03:16:51 < Laurenceb> still sounds a fair bit better
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2021-02-08T03:20:32 < jly> hey
2021-02-08T03:25:12 < kakium69> sup
2021-02-08T03:26:02 < jly> just been rolling it
2021-02-08T03:28:26 < kakium69> moolah?
2021-02-08T03:29:35 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-02-08T03:29:43 < Laurenceb> CMSIS DSP FFT will fit in F3 CCM
2021-02-08T03:29:58 < Laurenceb> benchmarks are crazy, <16clks/butterfly
2021-02-08T03:33:01 < Laurenceb> with this one weird trick you will never need a DSP again
2021-02-08T03:33:10 < kakium69> butterworth?
2021-02-08T03:33:16 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-02-08T03:33:31 < kakium69> <16clks/butterfly?
2021-02-08T03:33:35 < Laurenceb> nah FFT to process data from the radar ADC
2021-02-08T03:33:40 < Laurenceb> oh FFT butterfly
2021-02-08T03:33:43 < kakium69> ah
2021-02-08T03:33:48 < Laurenceb> wikipedia it
2021-02-08T03:33:54 < Laurenceb> its the core element of an FFT
2021-02-08T03:33:54 < kakium69> ah
2021-02-08T03:34:01 < kakium69> I see
2021-02-08T03:34:26 < Laurenceb> you have to load data and do complex multiply accumulate
2021-02-08T03:34:34  * Laurenceb zzz
2021-02-08T03:35:09 < jly> MACs
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2021-02-08T05:45:57 < R2COM> Zyp so is Mac desktop your daily driver for dev computer station?
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2021-02-08T06:18:12 < aandrew> zyp: gdb in osx is broken, has been for a long time
2021-02-08T06:18:49 < R2COM> Wat
2021-02-08T06:23:09 < ColdKeyboard> Is there a decent I2C slave example that uses interrupts to continuosly receive bytes from master...
2021-02-08T06:23:32 < ColdKeyboard> This STM's I2C slave receive example might as well be polling or anything else -> https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeL0/blob/master/Projects/NUCLEO-L011K4/Examples/I2C/I2C_TwoBoards_ComIT/Src/main.c
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2021-02-08T08:30:17 < ColdKeyboard> Damn I2C man.. it's killing me
2021-02-08T08:34:54 < ColdKeyboard> How would you receive N amount of bytes from master?
2021-02-08T08:35:28 < ColdKeyboard> It appears that STM is not too happy when you try to receive bytes one-by-one via interrupt
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2021-02-08T11:21:36 < dongs> i thought i gave you working i2c code
2021-02-08T11:21:54 < dongs> you receive N-1 and then you set stop thing before receiving last one
2021-02-08T11:22:01 < dongs> oh in slave mode
2021-02-08T11:22:05 < dongs> you just send when asked
2021-02-08T11:22:10 < dongs> and stop sending when receive stop
2021-02-08T12:04:08 < c10ud> I love IAR and its linker
2021-02-08T12:07:58 < mawk> ColdKeyboard: DMA?
2021-02-08T12:08:10 < mawk> or polling
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2021-02-08T13:31:51 < karlp> zyp: re axim/itcm, yeah, we had some issues where soeone wanted to default things to one or the other in locm3, and it broke debugging as well: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/776
2021-02-08T13:37:02 < zyp> ah, gonna read through that after lunch
2021-02-08T13:37:33 < mouseghost> wheres my package :<!
2021-02-08T13:56:33 < jpa-> ratghost stole it
2021-02-08T14:02:16 < zyp> karlp, I think people are overcomplicating the whole «ITCM being read only» issue
2021-02-08T14:05:21 < zyp> the way I see it, we're talking about flash that needs special handling for writes in any case, so IMO it's up to the flash writing routines to translate from 0x200000 to 0x8000000 when you ask to write somewhere in the 0x200000 area
2021-02-08T14:07:06 < zyp> I don't see it as beneficial to start fucking around with LMA vs VMA
2021-02-08T14:07:32  * karlp shrugs, just rememebered it as relevant
2021-02-08T14:07:45 < karlp> the linked oocd bug probably fixed the reflashing tow ork properly.
2021-02-08T14:07:52 < karlp> I've not looked since
2021-02-08T14:07:56 < zyp> probably
2021-02-08T14:08:09 < karlp> sorry, the breakpoint debugging to work properly
2021-02-08T14:08:30 < zyp> FWIW I put 0x200000 in my f7.yaml and that seemed to just work, as far as I could tell BMP did the right thing
2021-02-08T14:10:54 < zyp> although I haven't spent too much time on that yet
2021-02-08T14:12:31 < zyp> got distracted about the other gdb thing instead when I wanted to poke at the periphs
2021-02-08T14:17:37 < zyp> https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/blob/master/src/target/stm32f4.c#L427
2021-02-08T14:17:57 < zyp> simple as that :)
2021-02-08T14:19:14 < karlp> in implementation, at the end of the day.... but https://github.com/blacksphere/blackmagic/issues/188 took a while for a lot of people :)
2021-02-08T14:21:54 < zyp> fair enough, I were never around for it at the time
2021-02-08T14:22:03 < zyp> I just feel like this is the obvious solution
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2021-02-08T14:55:15 < mouseghost> omg these components are so smol
2021-02-08T14:58:53 < mawk> I bought a new heat pipe and radiator assembly for my cpu
2021-02-08T14:58:57 < mawk> I bent the current one
2021-02-08T14:59:01 < mawk> so my computer overheats
2021-02-08T14:59:30 < mawk> but there was "liquid metal" heat compound before
2021-02-08T14:59:33 < mawk> how do I clean that shit
2021-02-08T14:59:37 < mawk> I tried IPA but it doesn't do anything
2021-02-08T14:59:51 < mawk> I could maybe heat it up but if it drips onto the motherboard I'm fucked
2021-02-08T15:00:07 < fenugrec> HCl bath
2021-02-08T15:00:22 < mawk> not sure
2021-02-08T15:00:29 < fenugrec> for 12h
2021-02-08T15:00:33 < mawk> very not sure
2021-02-08T15:00:52 < zyp> IPA usually cleans that shit
2021-02-08T15:07:14 < jpa-> if it is galinstan or gallium, IPA probably does nothing because there is nothing to dissolve
2021-02-08T15:07:21 < jpa-> usually you can wipe it off with paper
2021-02-08T15:07:26 < jpa-> or you can use a piece of aluminum
2021-02-08T15:09:17 < mawk> ah good idea
2021-02-08T15:09:22 < mawk> thanks
2021-02-08T15:16:00 < zyp> huh, haven't seen that before
2021-02-08T15:18:06 < karlp> it just sucks into the alu?
2021-02-08T15:18:35 < karlp> can you re-separate it easily later?
2021-02-08T15:18:46 < karlp> you know what, nvm, this isn't something I need to learn abotu today
2021-02-08T15:26:33 < jpa-> i think my amplifier might be slightly unstable  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stable.png
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2021-02-08T15:31:30 < karlp> it's a synth now...
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2021-02-08T15:34:27 < Laurenceb> holy fucking zoooommmmmm 
2021-02-08T15:34:29 < Laurenceb> argggg
2021-02-08T15:34:32 < Laurenceb> fuck this shit
2021-02-08T15:34:34 < Laurenceb> 5 hours
2021-02-08T15:36:41 < Laurenceb> I'm now in zoom meetings until 7pm wtf
2021-02-08T15:36:58 < Laurenceb> whatever happened to irc chatz for wurk
2021-02-08T15:38:21 < mouseghost> Laurenceb, wtf
2021-02-08T15:39:44 < Laurenceb> infinite zoom meetingz
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2021-02-08T16:03:42 < karlp> heh, TIL inductors are polarized...
2021-02-08T16:03:49 < karlp> makes sense I guess, but hooray ;)
2021-02-08T16:04:20 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/J8MfA.png
2021-02-08T16:07:29 < fenugrec> yeah, film caps do that too, to some extent
2021-02-08T16:08:52 < mawk> but film caps are not inductors
2021-02-08T16:09:02 < mawk> ah ok
2021-02-08T16:09:03 < mawk> nevm
2021-02-08T16:09:05 < mawk> nvm*
2021-02-08T16:11:28 < fenugrec> well strictly speaking, they kinda look like inductors above a certain freq. But yeah , idea is to keep outer foil layer at gnd potential (for axial/radial ofc)
2021-02-08T16:12:04 < jpa-> i try to do the same with SMD trimmers, keeping the wiper at ground potential
2021-02-08T16:24:52 < englishman> why's that?
2021-02-08T16:25:11 < jpa-> reduces capacitive coupling
2021-02-08T16:27:10 < englishman> instead of having your signal on the wiper? wouldn't the two be equivalent?
2021-02-08T16:27:25 < dongs> that looks like a wurth appnote
2021-02-08T16:27:30 < dongs> tehy just weant you to buy their $20 coils
2021-02-08T16:27:36 < dongs> instead of a $0.02 chineseium one
2021-02-08T16:27:45 < dongs> ynm
2021-02-08T16:27:59 < jpa-> englishman: wiper has much more area than the carbon track
2021-02-08T16:28:04 < jpa-> and more exposed
2021-02-08T16:29:34 < englishman> are all SMT pots single turn?
2021-02-08T16:30:25 < jpa-> all the cheapest ones that i use, of course :)
2021-02-08T16:30:48 < englishman> do you think capacitance changes with wiper position too?
2021-02-08T16:31:14 < karlp> dongs: ding ding, wurth app note indeed :)
2021-02-08T16:31:27 < jpa-> englishman: at least for TC33X, no, i don't think so
2021-02-08T16:32:31 < dongs> wow, fucking great
2021-02-08T16:32:44 < dongs> place component in altidumb pcb. specifically select DIFFERENT footprint.
2021-02-08T16:32:47 < dongs> it slaps it down with default fp
2021-02-08T16:32:50 < dongs> fucking closed sores trash
2021-02-08T16:33:06 < karlp> cheapest inductors on lcsc are all shielded too anyway, 
2021-02-08T16:33:39 < karlp> sunlording it.
2021-02-08T16:34:37 < englishman> jpa so you're reducing total capacitance not capacitive coupling
2021-02-08T16:36:30 < jpa-> englishman: uh, i mean i reduce parasitic capacitive coupling to other stuff on the board and to my hands - coupling the noise to GND instead of the signal
2021-02-08T16:36:51 < englishman> yes i get it now
2021-02-08T16:37:12 < englishman> my shit is passing ESD now
2021-02-08T16:37:20 < englishman> turns out i only needed 4kV contact
2021-02-08T16:37:34 < englishman> it passed +8kV but failed -8kV horribly
2021-02-08T16:38:10 < jpa-> "englishman's boss: Oh it failed? Well I think 4kV is enough, ship it!"
2021-02-08T16:42:11 < englishman> p much
2021-02-08T16:43:11 < englishman> i read the competition's ce certs, they don't even test their measurement instruments with detectors attached
2021-02-08T16:43:22 < englishman> they just put a line "may have different performance when actually measuring shit"
2021-02-08T16:43:35 < jpa-> heh, i'm going to use that!
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2021-02-08T17:32:56 < drzacek> hello there
2021-02-08T17:33:52 < drzacek> I can flash stm32 black pill without stlink, right? I just need to hold the boot button while powering it up, but how do I configure it in stm32cubeide?
2021-02-08T17:34:43 < drzacek> or do I need to flash it with some external program?
2021-02-08T17:35:24 < karlp> you can use the rom bootloader
2021-02-08T17:35:25 < PaulFertser> drzacek: dfu-util can communicate with ST USB bootloader for flashing, yes.
2021-02-08T17:35:37 < karlp> dfu-util, and/or stm32programmer or whatever the serial one is called.
2021-02-08T17:36:02 < karlp> depending on part, you can use spi/can/i2c as well... but those arne't real common :)
2021-02-08T17:36:17 < PaulFertser> Blackpill has DFU, right?
2021-02-08T17:36:34 < drzacek> whats dfu
2021-02-08T17:36:46 < PaulFertser> USB protocol for firmware flashing.
2021-02-08T17:37:07 < drzacek> oh
2021-02-08T17:37:09 < drzacek> I think so
2021-02-08T17:37:17 < drzacek> otherwise why would they put the buttons there
2021-02-08T17:37:33 < PaulFertser> So press the button, attach to a computer, run dfu-util and that should be it.
2021-02-08T17:40:36 < drzacek> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/flasher-stm32.html this thing should work too? I remember using it few years ago, I think
2021-02-08T17:41:20 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-08T17:41:33 < jpa-> though that is for serial
2021-02-08T17:41:48 < jpa-> https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stsw-stm32080.html   is the usb one
2021-02-08T17:45:49 < drzacek> oh, the black pill doesn't have some uart<->usb module only talks directly? 
2021-02-08T17:47:19 < jpa-> who knows - there are various versions of "black pill"
2021-02-08T17:47:53 < jpa-> the F4 one has DFU, F1 one doesn't
2021-02-08T17:48:17 < jpa-> should be pretty easy to look at the board you have and see what it has
2021-02-08T17:48:44 < karlp> these days, black pill means the f401/f11 boards
2021-02-08T17:48:53 < karlp> the old f1 black pill dissappeared and wasst' re-cloned.
2021-02-08T17:49:44 < drzacek> its the f411
2021-02-08T17:49:56 < drzacek> it is in dfu mode
2021-02-08T17:50:12 < karlp> so you have dfu native in rom.
2021-02-08T17:50:16 < drzacek> nice
2021-02-08T17:50:43 < karlp> so dfu-util on linux, or defuse or the st thing on windows can work with diretly yes, ifyou like to work like that
2021-02-08T17:51:30 < drzacek> hmm so I need to configure project to generate dfu files?
2021-02-08T17:51:58 < jpa-> dfu-util can be used to flash .bin directly
2021-02-08T17:52:44 < drzacek> I'm on windows with dfuse demo
2021-02-08T18:01:21 < drzacek> hmm I must be doing something wrong, I compiled the project to .bin, generated the .dfu with dfu file manager, upgraded with the dfuse demo, yet it looks that the "breathing led" is still running on it
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2021-02-08T18:36:13 < englishman> oh
2021-02-08T18:36:22 < englishman> copper tape with non-conductive adhesive was fucking me up
2021-02-08T18:47:15 < karlp> what.... would taht be fore?
2021-02-08T18:50:11 < fenugrec> I don't understand non-conductive backed copper tape. Took apart a GPS that had some to close up a gap between the rear panel assy and the rest of the unit... maybe if you want to keep shields at separate ground "potentials" ? 
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2021-02-08T18:52:09 < BrainDamage> exactly that, generally you want the point where grounds converge to be a single one
2021-02-08T18:52:39 < BrainDamage> the larger the loops you can make in ground paths, and the more magnetic interference you can pick up
2021-02-08T18:54:51 < jpa-> it also works for shielding plastic enclosures from the inside, and is cheaper than conductive adhesive
2021-02-08T19:02:06 < englishman> in this case I was trying to connect two shielding surfaces to each other. and they remained isolated
2021-02-08T19:04:03 < Laurenceb> holy fucking zooooom
2021-02-08T19:04:08 < Laurenceb> I'm zoooommminggggg
2021-02-08T19:04:19 < Laurenceb> oh my god I'm zoommminggggg
2021-02-08T19:04:23 < Laurenceb> der zoomer
2021-02-08T19:04:40 < Laurenceb> only one 1.5 hour zoom to go
2021-02-08T19:09:12 < BrainDamage> mawk: since you're the resident expert, what's in your opinion, Laurenceb's choice of intoxicant he gets before getting on irc most of the times?
2021-02-08T19:09:42 < mawk> lol
2021-02-08T19:09:53 < mawk> maybe he's got auto-brewery syndrome
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2021-02-08T19:44:24 < Steffanx> Lolol
2021-02-08T19:54:47 < Steffanx> Laurenceb im surprised you accept this corporate shit. Better step up and stop the madness
2021-02-08T19:55:07 < Steffanx> Just tell them to go F103. Easy peasy
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2021-02-08T20:14:55 < englishman> dialog bought by renesas...
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2021-02-08T20:47:32 < Laurenceb> its overrrr
2021-02-08T20:47:40 < Laurenceb> I've finished zoomminngggggg
2021-02-08T20:47:51 < Laurenceb> 9hours zoom session
2021-02-08T20:49:37 < mouseghost> zoomer
2021-02-08T20:50:35 < Laurenceb> I zooomed in my pants
2021-02-08T20:50:46 < antto> did u see teh molecules?
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2021-02-08T21:51:52 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk wtf
2021-02-08T21:52:06 < Laurenceb> >britishh nuclear sub officer is a pron star
2021-02-08T21:52:08 < Laurenceb> my sides
2021-02-08T21:52:23 < Laurenceb> >you get nuked by a porn star
2021-02-08T21:52:41 < antto> get nuked by a nekid guy
2021-02-08T21:53:25 < Laurenceb> undersea pron studio and nuclear missile launcher
2021-02-08T21:53:34 < Laurenceb> now thats multifunctional
2021-02-08T21:55:53 < Laurenceb> wew wtf
2021-02-08T21:55:58 < Laurenceb> nsfw https://onlyfans.com/callytaylor
2021-02-08T21:56:01 < Laurenceb> >online
2021-02-08T21:56:05 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk wtf
2021-02-08T21:56:28 < Laurenceb> how the fuck is she not courtmarshalled yet
2021-02-08T21:57:58 < Laurenceb> keeeeek
2021-02-08T21:58:05 < Laurenceb> >This like fucking on top a corpse of an ET in Area 51 tier security breach.  What massive MoD fuck up.
2021-02-08T22:01:24 < Steffanx> https://onlyfans.com/blaxter its real.
2021-02-08T22:01:26 < Steffanx> or maybe https://onlyfans.com/laurencb
2021-02-08T22:01:59 < Steffanx> hi Laurenceb, how is your day today?
2021-02-08T22:06:33 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-02-08T22:06:37 < Laurenceb> weird
2021-02-08T22:06:45 < Steffanx> what is mr sir?
2021-02-08T22:07:01 < Laurenceb> you would know all about onlyfans now wouldnt you
2021-02-08T22:07:42 < qyx> why did you zoom all day?
2021-02-08T22:07:45 < qyx> is it your new job?
2021-02-08T22:08:11 < Steffanx> lol no Laurenceb. i just entered variations on your name
2021-02-08T22:09:52 < BrainDamage> unrelated: NSAID here are called FANS
2021-02-08T22:10:47 < Steffanx> back to the important things. Who the fuck took my laptop ac adapter/charger
2021-02-08T22:10:54 < Laurenceb> I'll sue you if you dare to make fake accounts
2021-02-08T22:11:03 < Laurenceb> qyx: yes
2021-02-08T22:11:09 < Laurenceb> 9 hours a day of zoom
2021-02-08T22:11:30 < antto> get zoombified
2021-02-08T22:11:44 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb, im not bored enough for that
2021-02-08T22:12:56 < BrainDamage> consider it like an office meeting, but you can actually take breaks
2021-02-08T22:13:19 < BrainDamage> also, nobody will see you fapping if you adjust the camera properly
2021-02-08T22:13:23 < antto> turn off the mic when u fart
2021-02-08T22:14:02 < antto> hm.. or if it's more than 2 people.. don't?
2021-02-08T22:18:24 < Steffanx> BrainDamage considering Laurenceb  uses a laptop from 2000... they wont see more than 2 pixels anyway :P
2021-02-08T22:22:16 < qyx> but but surround sound and echo cancelling
2021-02-08T22:25:22 < zyp> Steffanx, not usb-c?
2021-02-08T22:27:19 < zyp> laptop charging via PD is great -- I'm still using my own laptop at $newjob while waiting for ordered computer to arrive, I can just leave the charger at the office because I have more PD chargers at home anyway
2021-02-08T22:27:44 < effractur> usb-c monitors are even better
2021-02-08T22:27:52 < effractur> keyboard/mouse/display and charging 
2021-02-08T22:27:53 < effractur> via 1 cable
2021-02-08T22:28:09 < zyp> also networking
2021-02-08T22:28:13 < effractur> yes
2021-02-08T22:28:17 < zyp> and yeah
2021-02-08T22:29:47 < zyp> I wish there were more usb-c KVM stuff
2021-02-08T22:30:16 < qyx> let's make some
2021-02-08T22:30:34 < zyp> I've thought about it
2021-02-08T22:30:56 < qyx> there are superfast muxes now thanks to usb3
2021-02-08T22:30:59 < effractur> i wouls shoot level1tech/wendel a message
2021-02-08T22:31:14 < effractur> they already have DP/usb3 kvm stuff
2021-02-08T22:31:15 < Steffanx> ive no proper usb-c chargers zyp 
2021-02-08T22:31:19 < effractur> https://store.level1techs.com/?category=Hardware
2021-02-08T22:32:40 < Steffanx> RDP works fine :)
2021-02-08T22:33:11 < effractur> he did a usb-c run afaik a while ago
2021-02-08T22:33:32 < zyp> I've got three PD sources but IIRC one of them is only 18W
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2021-02-08T22:33:42 < zyp> probably still enough
2021-02-08T22:34:02 < zyp> other one is 30W, and then the 60W that came with the laptop
2021-02-08T22:34:37 < zyp> and then I'm waiting for a dual 100W kickstarter thing that is just as delayed as every other kickstarter
2021-02-08T22:35:21 < Steffanx> kickstarter is stil a thing?
2021-02-08T22:35:41 < zyp> this shit: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/asaptechnologies/omega-charger
2021-02-08T22:36:11 < zyp> oh, not that delayed, original estimate was jan 21
2021-02-08T22:40:12 < Steffanx> anyway, i never needed a usb-c charger, except for my phone and the laptop came with the regular dc plug. (also does usb c but no charger)
2021-02-08T22:41:14 < Steffanx> i was tempted to buy one anyway a few weeks ago, so maybe i should do it anyway :)
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2021-02-08T22:56:12 < karlp> pretty happy with this one I bought: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html
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2021-02-08T23:02:11 < zyp> hmm, I'll just order one of them as well then :)
2021-02-08T23:06:59 < Steffanx> me too, if its bad i know who to blame 
2021-02-08T23:10:59 < karlp> I've nto done any extensive heavy testing with it, but it chares phone and laptop nicely, it's perfectly sized for not taking up neighbouring outlets on a power bar, it feels nice, price is right
2021-02-08T23:11:09 < karlp> someone else hwere said that baseus is a "good" brand
2021-02-08T23:11:21 < karlp> I use it as my "home" charger for a work laptop
2021-02-08T23:12:51 < qyx> modern westeners
2021-02-08T23:12:55 < karlp> anyone have an opinion on a sound meter? 
2021-02-08T23:12:59 < qyx> with houses full of usb-c gadgets
2021-02-08T23:13:01 < qyx> I have none so far
2021-02-08T23:13:39 < karlp> I have a work laptop, a phone, a gd32v board, and an stm32f411 black pill board with usb-c.
2021-02-08T23:13:41 < karlp> I think that's it at home
2021-02-08T23:13:52 < karlp> at work I have a bar code scanner as well.
2021-02-08T23:14:17 < karlp> and I think I only have 1 c-c cable :)
2021-02-08T23:14:57 < karlp> like, is this going to be "ok" https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32821363741.html ? or is there some trick with expensive ones?
2021-02-08T23:15:43 < zyp> I've lost track of the number of things I've got with usb-c
2021-02-08T23:17:25 < zyp> but I fucked up recently when I bought a tablet for the kid, got one a generation too old and I didn't realize it came with micro-usb until after it was packed out
2021-02-08T23:18:01 < karlp> heh, https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/app.html "ios only, because ios is perfectly uniform hardware"
2021-02-08T23:18:14 < zyp> got one of the lenovo m10 variants, and apparently there's a bunch of them and the one I looked at first had usb-c
2021-02-08T23:18:30 < zyp> but it was out of stock so I grabbed another from another store
2021-02-08T23:18:33 < qyx> interesting fifo values https://paste.jvnv.net/view/XnyFe
2021-02-08T23:25:40 < karlp> hrm, mightjust use a phoen app.
2021-02-08T23:27:18 < Steffanx> do those even work properly or can you somehow "calibrate"  them?
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2021-02-08T23:29:53 < qyx> probably work properly with dBFS scale
2021-02-08T23:30:04 < karlp> first one I tried has a "calibrate" but it's probably okish
2021-02-08T23:30:15  * karlp shrugs
2021-02-08T23:30:21 < karlp> I want a quieter kettle
2021-02-08T23:31:00 < qyx> calibrate to what, stand behind an airplane during starting?
2021-02-08T23:31:09 < zyp> quieter kettle?
2021-02-08T23:31:25 < qyx> or using zyp's compressor
2021-02-08T23:32:00 < karlp> I think it's calibrate to an another meter?
2021-02-08T23:32:01 < zyp> ls
2021-02-08T23:32:02  * karlp shrugs
2021-02-08T23:32:10 < karlp> yeah, for boiling water.
2021-02-08T23:32:12 < karlp> it's loud
2021-02-08T23:32:16 < karlp> I want it to be not loud
2021-02-08T23:32:44 < qyx> :D
2021-02-08T23:33:14 < qyx> I am curious if you can make a reference sound source
2021-02-08T23:33:41 < qyx> eg. using some turbine of a known size and construction in a known pressure of air at a known temperature
2021-02-08T23:33:45 < qyx> and rpm
2021-02-08T23:33:58 < karlp> hah
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2021-02-08T23:35:28 < zyp> I've got something like this: https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B002OGUG20/, it's virtually soundless
2021-02-08T23:36:18 < Steffanx> present from the mother in law?
2021-02-08T23:36:41 < zyp> no, I bought it like five years ago
2021-02-08T23:37:01 < karlp> thatðs... such a strange thing
2021-02-08T23:37:06 < karlp> probably great for making cups of tea?
2021-02-08T23:37:56 < zyp> that's what I bought it for, but I'm less a fan of tea than I thought
2021-02-08T23:38:02 < zyp> but it's great for baby food
2021-02-08T23:38:10 < karlp> it's very likely that _any_ new kettle will be quiet enough these days
2021-02-08T23:38:16 < karlp> our kettle is "vintage"
2021-02-08T23:38:22 < karlp> yeah, I'm out of baby food thankfully
2021-02-08T23:39:04 < karlp> have to buy a new vaccum too, battery pack is kaput on the current one and replacements are unobtainum, and i'm not doing the repack and buy a spot welder game 
2021-02-08T23:39:10 < karlp> so might just buy a new kettle too....
2021-02-08T23:39:30 < qyx> you can solder them..
2021-02-08T23:39:41 < zyp> when kid was smaller and drinking that powdered milk, quickest way to prepare it was to mix 50:50 boiling water and pre-boiled water from the fridge, and having boiling water available at any time was great :)
2021-02-08T23:40:53 < zyp> also powdered porridge, kid still eats that for breakfast before kindergarden
2021-02-08T23:40:55 < karlp> qyx: I'd need the batteries too.
2021-02-08T23:43:20 < zyp> karlp, if you want something a bit more western, you can look up quooker
2021-02-08T23:43:33 < zyp> kinda same concept, except integrated with the kitchen tap
2021-02-08T23:44:02 < karlp> nah, I don't really want something like that at all :)
2021-02-08T23:44:15 < karlp> we use it almost exclusively to boil water to pour in a french press
2021-02-08T23:44:44 < zyp> yeah?
2021-02-08T23:45:32 < zyp> that's not really an argument for having to wait for it to boil :)
2021-02-08T23:46:18 < karlp> i never mentioned time as an issue.
2021-02-08T23:46:23 < karlp> I want quieter.
2021-02-08T23:47:00 < zyp> and it is
2021-02-08T23:47:25 < zyp> since the boiling doesn't happen while you're waiting for it, it doesn't have to be fast, and slower = quieter
2021-02-08T23:53:11 < Steffanx> When you say vintage you mean this karlp?
2021-02-08T23:53:14 < Steffanx> https://images.nrc.nl/YnI-l3DCF0uy2odwYi_EOeHik2k=/1280x/filters:no_upscale()/s3/static.nrc.nl/images/stripped/3101tzwetfluitketel.jpg
2021-02-08T23:53:55 < qyx> zyp: I eat that too
2021-02-08T23:53:56 < karlp> no, that looks too new ;)
2021-02-08T23:54:30 < qyx> Steffanx: great, me wanna
2021-02-08T23:54:57 < qyx> we use dead-dinosaur-gas for cooking so fits perfectly
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2021-02-08T23:55:30 < karlp> more like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/vtg-RUSSELL-HOBBS-3104-ELECTRIC-TEA-KETTLE-XLNT/224341333026
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2021-02-08T23:55:58 < Steffanx> oh lol.. i really hoped you were talking about a electric kettle
2021-02-08T23:56:09 < Steffanx> oh it is
2021-02-08T23:56:10 < Steffanx> lol
2021-02-08T23:56:17 < Steffanx> i failed to look properly
2021-02-08T23:56:21 < zyp> Steffanx, I actually have one of these too: https://www.ikea.com/no/no/p/vattentaet-vannkjele-rustfritt-stal-svart-20239595/
2021-02-08T23:56:46 < Steffanx> :)
2021-02-08T23:57:08 < zyp> it's useful when I want a couple of liters of boiled water at once
2021-02-08T23:57:35 < karlp> we just put a pot on the induction stove for that :)
2021-02-08T23:57:59 < zyp> yeah, this is just more convenient to pour from
2021-02-08T23:58:37 < zyp> mostly used it for filling those bottles that went in the fridge to have cold pre-boiled water
2021-02-08T23:58:50 < Steffanx> i just put a cup into the microwave when i feel like it.
2021-02-08T23:58:59 < zyp> meh
2021-02-08T23:59:03 < Steffanx> :P
2021-02-08T23:59:31 < Steffanx> but usually its the electric kettle that i hardly hear so im never sure if its done or not.
--- Day changed Tue Feb 09 2021
2021-02-09T00:00:44 < zyp> I tried a bunch of ways to prepare baby milk at the right temperature; hitting the right time with the microwave is too easy to fuck up, cooling it off again under the tap is no fun
2021-02-09T00:01:13 < karlp> preboil the water in the kettle,
2021-02-09T00:01:20 < zyp> tried one of those bottle warmer things but that was slow as fuck and still not easier than microwave
2021-02-09T00:01:21 < karlp> pin thermometer in the open top of the kettle....
2021-02-09T00:01:29 < karlp> reheat and watch thermo
2021-02-09T00:01:50 < karlp> after a bit, just do it based on the sound the kettle makes....
2021-02-09T00:02:00 < Steffanx> i dont have this issue with baby milk..
2021-02-09T00:02:07 < karlp> neither do I now :)
2021-02-09T00:02:16 < karlp> it's great!
2021-02-09T00:02:22 < zyp> I'm well past that too
2021-02-09T00:02:28 < zyp> but still
2021-02-09T00:03:23 < zyp> the absolutely fastest and easiest way to get the perfect temperature is to just mix 50:50 fridge water and thermopot water
2021-02-09T00:04:22 < zyp> and fast is good when the kid is crying for food
2021-02-09T00:04:49 < karlp> every family gets their own routine :)
2021-02-09T00:05:32 < zyp> that said, if we're getting another bottle baby in the future I'm totally buying a babybrezza
2021-02-09T00:06:02 < zyp> didn't find out that existed before kid was too old to justify it
2021-02-09T00:06:09  * qyx mix a preboiled cold water, adds boiling water until it is okish
2021-02-09T00:06:37 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-09T00:07:24 < zyp> and given that I had them both available at consistent temperatures, I could rely on a 50:50 mix turning out right :)
2021-02-09T00:09:57 < qyx> uf 200e for that brezza
2021-02-09T00:11:08 < Steffanx> more like >250
2021-02-09T00:24:36 < karlp> hey, wwow, mcmaster is allowing browsing by foreigneres again
2021-02-09T00:25:58 < Steffanx> should i know mcmaster ?
2021-02-09T00:27:30 < karlp> very nice visual catalog for hardware
2021-02-09T00:30:17 < fenugrec> and priced accordingly
2021-02-09T00:31:34 < karlp> well, it's all yankee units and probbly won't ship to me anyway
2021-02-09T00:31:39 < karlp> but it's great for seeing what's _available_
2021-02-09T00:31:42 < karlp> and what the names are
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2021-02-09T00:46:12 < qyx> here goes a c question for c++ pros
2021-02-09T00:46:26 < qyx> I have a function pointer with a void *something parameter
2021-02-09T00:46:46 < qyx> I want to assign it a function having a typed *something parameter
2021-02-09T00:46:50  * antto is not pro
2021-02-09T00:47:12 < qyx> how to do that and keep the compiler happy
2021-02-09T00:47:13 < antto> reinterpret_cast<>
2021-02-09T00:47:55 < antto> what is the compil0r saying right now?
2021-02-09T00:49:19 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/1ovbC
2021-02-09T00:49:26 < qyx> nothing because I am using such trampoline
2021-02-09T00:49:40 < qyx> fuk wrong paste
2021-02-09T00:49:53 < qyx> the pointer is here https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/develop/services/interfaces/clock/descriptor.h#L56
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2021-02-09T00:59:04 < karlp> 6hrm sy8366 looks sexy
2021-02-09T01:02:31 < zyp> I think I found a workable solution to my latest gdb woes
2021-02-09T01:05:04 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/3qTVL <- I can stick a pointer to the register block in a convenience var
2021-02-09T01:05:12 < zyp> and this can be automated
2021-02-09T01:06:28 < zyp> except that's still not a good solutions for objects with multiple blocks
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2021-02-09T01:11:03 < karlp> bleh, need an eeprom or some gross pcb tracks to have logically numbeered usbhub ports
2021-02-09T01:11:19 < zyp> eeproms are cheap
2021-02-09T01:11:27 < karlp> yeah, but have to be programmed
2021-02-09T01:11:41 < karlp> and I'm not sure it's documented to do it via hub commands.
2021-02-09T01:11:48 < zyp> put down the footprint, see if you bother actually mounting it later :)
2021-02-09T01:11:53 < karlp> yeah, alrady done that
2021-02-09T01:12:04 < karlp> was just going over things I wanted to fix, and one of them wsa the port numbering was all fucky
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2021-02-09T01:29:59 < fenugrec> "gross pcb tracks"
2021-02-09T01:30:32 < fenugrec> surely nothing a few 0R can't fix, for less money and less trouble than an eeprom
2021-02-09T01:31:28 < zyp> what, eww
2021-02-09T01:31:50 < zyp> sounds like «let's take a bad mess and make it worse»
2021-02-09T01:37:34 < dongs> karlp: whoa, nice
2021-02-09T01:39:36 < dongs> karlp: silergy really likes those oddball packages
2021-02-09T01:40:11 < dongs> hmm 100uA IQ
2021-02-09T01:40:20 < dongs> lets see how that compares with the mps im currently using
2021-02-09T01:40:56 < dongs> 117uA
2021-02-09T01:40:58 < dongs> neat
2021-02-09T01:41:08 < dongs> ^ MP8759
2021-02-09T02:00:44 < qyx> ok gnu11 has typeof() operator
2021-02-09T02:01:06 < dongs> gnu11 more like gnull
2021-02-09T02:01:38 < qyx> yeah msvc will have such thing in 2050 maybe
2021-02-09T02:01:54 < qyx> does it have c99 yet?
2021-02-09T02:02:04 < dongs> mabye in 2050 gnu/trash will have an actually optimizing compiler
2021-02-09T02:02:16 < dongs> and one with actually working support for LTO
2021-02-09T02:02:17 < fenugrec> apparently msvc has partial c99 since ~ 2019
2021-02-09T02:02:40 < qyx> oh it only took 20 years
2021-02-09T02:02:47 < fenugrec> so you can finally use high-tech features like designated initializers etc
2021-02-09T02:04:15 < fenugrec> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/c11-and-c17-standard-support-arriving-in-msvc/
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2021-02-09T02:05:13 < qyx> maybe they are going into iot business
2021-02-09T02:05:14 < fenugrec> no VLA , no "optional c11 features" though
2021-02-09T02:05:28 < dongs> VLA is fucking gnu/trash cancer tho
2021-02-09T02:05:35 < dongs> anyone actually using that shit should be fired
2021-02-09T02:05:44 < dongs> especially on embedded
2021-02-09T02:07:30 < fenugrec> gnu didn<t invent VLA, but yea
2021-02-09T02:11:12 < dongs> um what teh fuck
2021-02-09T02:11:23 < dongs> JST-ZR, where's the part# listing for the mating pcb header
2021-02-09T02:11:34 < dongs> https://www.jst-mfg.com/product/detail_e.php?series=290 their ZR catalog only lists the header
2021-02-09T02:12:50 < dongs> is ZH the mating series?
2021-02-09T02:13:19 < fenugrec> " The same shrouded header can be used for the ZH crimp style connector.  "
2021-02-09T02:18:26 < dongs> lol duh
2021-02-09T02:18:31 < dongs> thanks
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2021-02-09T02:26:18 < kakium69> hello night crew
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2021-02-09T03:15:40 < karlp> heh, kicad mingrid on pcb footprint is .01mm, this sy8366 has things that are on 0.005
2021-02-09T03:16:59 < karlp> dongs: yeah, it's cheap in china and good availbility too.
2021-02-09T03:17:05 < karlp> having a fucking mess with that footprint though
2021-02-09T03:25:28 < karlp> nicer docs on the mps parts
2021-02-09T03:42:57 < Laurenceb> this is too easy
2021-02-09T03:43:18 < Laurenceb> >122GHz CWFM radar using silicon radar dev board 
2021-02-09T03:43:30 < Laurenceb> >use 128 length FFT to get range info
2021-02-09T03:43:34 < Laurenceb> >apply SLAM
2021-02-09T03:43:38 < Laurenceb> the end
2021-02-09T03:43:55 < qyx> Laurenceb: how to quickly compare two accels in octave?
2021-02-09T03:44:02 < Laurenceb> pwelch
2021-02-09T03:44:07 < Laurenceb> help pwelch
2021-02-09T03:44:11 < qyx> I know pwelch
2021-02-09T03:44:13 < qyx> hm
2021-02-09T03:44:18 < qyx> why
2021-02-09T03:44:21 < Laurenceb> so look at power spectral density
2021-02-09T03:44:29 < Laurenceb> or maybe you want nonlinearity/offset?
2021-02-09T03:44:52 < qyx> I am sampling static accel
2021-02-09T03:45:02 < qyx> and want to compare it to datasheet values
2021-02-09T03:45:08 < Laurenceb> ok, is it chaning position?
2021-02-09T03:45:11 < Laurenceb> *changing
2021-02-09T03:45:16 < Laurenceb> >channing
2021-02-09T03:45:21 < qyx> so rms noise in dB/sqrt(Hz)
2021-02-09T03:45:22 < qyx> no
2021-02-09T03:45:33 < Laurenceb> hmm can you reorientate it?
2021-02-09T03:45:33 < qyx> it is laying untouched
2021-02-09T03:45:40 < qyx> no
2021-02-09T03:45:48 < Laurenceb> its bolted to something?
2021-02-09T03:46:03 < qyx> lets say I don't want to wake up the kid
2021-02-09T03:46:08 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-02-09T03:46:09 < qyx> it is laying on the table
2021-02-09T03:46:25 < Laurenceb> hmm you really need reorientation to make it easier
2021-02-09T03:46:38 < qyx> to ger result for every axis?
2021-02-09T03:46:39 < Laurenceb> then identify >6 stationary intervals and average them
2021-02-09T03:46:45 < Laurenceb> yeah, bias and gain
2021-02-09T03:47:00 < Laurenceb> use Newton-Raphson with Moor-Penrose pseudoinverse
2021-02-09T03:47:14 < Laurenceb> to match >6 oritentations to cal
2021-02-09T03:47:16 < qyx> I want to compare the noise only
2021-02-09T03:47:32 < Laurenceb> obviously that leaves a rotation 3 vector underfined 
2021-02-09T03:47:37 < Laurenceb> *undefined
2021-02-09T03:47:39 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-09T03:47:48 < qyx> var()  or std()
2021-02-09T03:47:51 < qyx> or allanvar or what
2021-02-09T03:47:55 < qyx> no worky?
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2021-02-09T03:48:04 < Laurenceb> I didnt know there was an allan variance function
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2021-02-09T03:48:35 < qyx> ok, undefined, only in matlab :>
2021-02-09T03:48:36 < Laurenceb> hmm not in standard libraries :(
2021-02-09T03:48:50 < Laurenceb> yeah I'd use pwelch
2021-02-09T03:49:03 < Laurenceb> then scale to µG/root Hz
2021-02-09T03:49:03 < qyx> rms(a) gives me like
2021-02-09T03:49:07 < qyx>    1.2719e+03   1.1356e+03   1.6476e+04
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2021-02-09T03:49:21 < Laurenceb> ok thats crude but might be useful
2021-02-09T03:49:31 < qyx> and var(a) is 1e6
2021-02-09T03:49:35 < Laurenceb> just scale it using lsb/g and bandwidth
2021-02-09T03:49:38 < qyx> wjhch doesn't seem to be right
2021-02-09T03:49:46 < qyx> O_o
2021-02-09T03:51:16 < Laurenceb> so if there were 1024lsb/g and 100µg/root Hz, 200hz bandwidth
2021-02-09T03:52:10 < qyx> there is 16384 lsb/g, I shpould achieve 70ug/rootHz, sample rate is 100 Hz
2021-02-09T03:52:12 < Laurenceb> 1e-4*sqrt(200)*1024=rms
2021-02-09T03:52:23 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-09T03:52:28 < qyx> so 
2021-02-09T03:52:45 < Laurenceb> 7e-5*sqrt(50)~5e-4
2021-02-09T03:52:59 < Laurenceb> erm yeah
2021-02-09T03:53:06 < Laurenceb> ur sensor is way too noisy
2021-02-09T03:53:09 < qyx> rms(a)/16384/50?
2021-02-09T03:53:19 < Laurenceb> sqrt(50)
2021-02-09T03:53:24 < Laurenceb> but yeah thats it
2021-02-09T03:53:38 < Laurenceb> maybe its left aligned?
2021-02-09T03:53:49 < qyx> data look legit
2021-02-09T03:54:04 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah that wouldnt be enough to throw it
2021-02-09T03:54:33 < Laurenceb> something is bad, maybe power supply or onboard filtering incorrectly configured
2021-02-09T03:54:59 < Laurenceb> in my experience ST and AD accels usually exceed noise spec by some margin
2021-02-09T03:56:09 < qyx> this is invensense
2021-02-09T03:56:13 < qyx> icm42688p
2021-02-09T03:56:34 < Laurenceb> I'm not reading the datashit at this tiem...
2021-02-09T03:56:40 < qyx> k
2021-02-09T03:56:45 < Laurenceb> but yeah it looks like something is wrong there
2021-02-09T03:56:46 < qyx> thanks anyway
2021-02-09T03:56:48 < Laurenceb> k
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2021-02-09T04:09:09 < dongs> < karlp> having a fucking mess with that footprint though
2021-02-09T04:09:15 < dongs> like 5 mins of work in altium
2021-02-09T04:09:22 < dongs> if even that.
2021-02-09T04:09:33 < dongs> also you can draw the shit in $freecad and import dxf as footprint
2021-02-09T04:10:05 < dongs> the rdson is kinda crap on the SY part tho
2021-02-09T04:10:43 < dongs> half on the MPS
2021-02-09T04:11:37 < dongs> is that gonna be your main 5V reg for the USB hub of doom
2021-02-09T04:14:25 < qyx> hm can I rms the thing with a DC bias?
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2021-02-09T05:58:23 < dongs> karlp: that silergy if you actually going to sink 6A continously will prolyl get hot as fuck and/or thermal shutdown. meanwhile MPS or some TI protool(tm) will probably be OK
2021-02-09T05:58:38 < dongs> internal rds is directly proportional to how much it will heat up
2021-02-09T05:59:03 < dongs> (as you likely know thaT)
2021-02-09T06:00:41 < jadew> ... tesla bought 1.5 billion of buttcoins
2021-02-09T06:01:07 < jadew> and I have 0 buttcoins, because I always thought it's going to fail
2021-02-09T06:01:39 < dongs> it has already failed
2021-02-09T06:02:10 < jadew> if he's going to accept it as payment, it's going to go mainstream and it will become stable
2021-02-09T06:02:31 < jadew> for that to happen, tesla stock shouldn't crash first
2021-02-09T06:02:44 < jadew> so we'll see how that plays out
2021-02-09T06:03:02 < dongs> yeah but tesla cars are garbage, so who gives a shit if they take buttcoin
2021-02-09T06:03:20 < dongs> im not gonna spend 100k on a piece of shit wiht a $5k interior
2021-02-09T06:03:31 < dongs> when I can spend 100k on a lexus and it will acutally be nice to drive
2021-02-09T06:03:46 < jadew> and Japanese :)
2021-02-09T06:04:11 < dongs> i just bought a 2021 toyota venza which is ~ lexus nx 300h and it beats the fuck out of anything tesla has ever shitted out
2021-02-09T06:05:57 < jadew> Buffet said he wouldn't invest in Tesla
2021-02-09T06:06:06 < dongs> toyota/panasonic/whatever will one of these years figure out proper solid battery shit wahtever that's being currently researched and tesla can suck their own dicks with their fucking 18420 battery packs
2021-02-09T06:06:26 < jadew> and I think it's because he doesn't know if Tesla is going to be around once everyone starts moving in the electric car market
2021-02-09T06:06:31 < dongs> as soon as lexus makes an all-electric im buying 
2021-02-09T06:06:38 < dongs> because that's going to be acutally driveable unlike tesla
2021-02-09T06:06:53 < dongs> cc: englishman because he's a fucking fanboy of 24" LCD in the fucking dashboard
2021-02-09T06:07:20 < jadew> right, how does that work at night?
2021-02-09T06:07:30 < jadew> isn't it a nuisance?
2021-02-09T06:07:34 < dongs> i dont know but i heard you need to press like 20 things to turn off windshield wipers
2021-02-09T06:07:39 < dongs> because there isn't a mechanical switch for that
2021-02-09T06:08:10 < jadew> what do you need wipers for if it drives itself?
2021-02-09T06:08:30 < dongs> maybe to see a pole that the self-driving stupidity didnt notice
2021-02-09T06:08:58 < jadew> that toyota you got looks nice
2021-02-09T06:09:20 < dongs> there's selfdriving-ish stuff on the toyota, it'll lane follow and keep behind car in front up to complete stop, on longer trips i dont even have my feet on gas or on brake at all, it just moves by itself
2021-02-09T06:09:38 < dongs> and the wheel is turning by itself as long as the curve isnt too hard
2021-02-09T06:11:15 < jadew> must be a strange feeling
2021-02-09T06:12:02 < dongs> ya its weird but works not bad. i think you can configure the strength of how it overrides
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2021-02-09T09:27:30 < Thorn> many TFT displays with ILI and similar controllers have operating Vcc range something like 2.8...3.3V, does it mean they can be run @ 3.3V in practice? most other things designed for 3.3V can operate at up to 3.6V which means 10% margin
2021-02-09T09:28:06 < Thorn> or should I just set my Vcc to 3.0V (assuming all other components allow it)?
2021-02-09T09:36:46 < dongs> ive used the typical ILI trash at 3.3 in a lot of shit, zero issues
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2021-02-09T09:57:51 < englishman> lol a Toyota venza really? 
2021-02-09T09:58:25 < dongs> owns the fuck out of your buttcoin shitbox
2021-02-09T09:58:31 < englishman> nice to hear it has radar cruise control
2021-02-09T09:58:49 < englishman> Toyota will catch up in about 10 years
2021-02-09T09:59:05 < dongs> great, and I'll buy their all-electric thing as soon as its out
2021-02-09T09:59:22 < englishman> didn't they bet everything on hydrogen
2021-02-09T09:59:24 < dongs> as it will actually be nice to drive, not like your $100k with $5k interior ripoff of lotus or whatever musk stole
2021-02-09T09:59:36 < dongs> idk im just trolling
2021-02-09T09:59:56 < englishman> yeah I don't see a Toyota interior costing anything near 5k
2021-02-09T10:00:13 < englishman> also tesla is like 55k cad
2021-02-09T10:01:00 < englishman> maybe 5k in copper wire to connect all the fucking buttons together
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2021-02-09T10:20:54 < Steffanx> Lol fanbois
2021-02-09T10:34:21 < mawk> hydrogen is just fancy electric
2021-02-09T10:34:30 < dongs> https://twitter.com/cdprojektred/status/1359048125403590660 cyberpunk got punk'd
2021-02-09T10:34:51 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T10:36:05 < zyp> sup?
2021-02-09T10:39:29 < mawk> I received my new heat assembly for computer
2021-02-09T10:39:42 < mawk> so now I will shut down and install it
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2021-02-09T10:39:50 < mawk> I also took a bigger battery
2021-02-09T10:39:58 < mawk> which takes room of the SATA drive I don't use
2021-02-09T10:40:05 < mawk> it's a cool laptop manufacturer
2021-02-09T10:40:17 < mawk> they allow you to open the thing and swap parts and that doesn't void the 3 years warranty
2021-02-09T10:40:37 < mawk> https://configurelaptop.eu/
2021-02-09T10:41:46 < mawk> it's a dutch company
2021-02-09T10:42:05 < dongs> that just looks like a sager reseller
2021-02-09T10:42:19 < dongs> or wahtever that shitty chink OEM that makes ugly huge heavy as fuck  and hot laptops
2021-02-09T10:42:39 < dongs> ah, clevo
2021-02-09T10:43:23 < Steffanx> And €€€
2021-02-09T10:43:29 < dongs> wat
2021-02-09T10:43:41 < dongs> that just looks like blocks
2021-02-09T10:43:44 < dongs> ah, copypaste to euro
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2021-02-09T10:47:43 < mawk> maybe in the past
2021-02-09T10:47:46 < mawk> mine doesn't run hot
2021-02-09T10:47:56 < englishman> hydrogen comes from fossil fuels
2021-02-09T10:47:57 < mawk> well it didn't
2021-02-09T10:48:01 < mawk> until I bent the heat pipe
2021-02-09T10:48:17 < mawk> not always englishman 
2021-02-09T10:48:21 < dongs> electricity comes from mining buttcoin
2021-02-09T10:48:37 < mawk> you're rich Steffanx 
2021-02-09T10:49:26 < Steffanx> If that were true id be wearing suits and use a macbook 
2021-02-09T10:49:35 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T10:49:37 < mawk> you don't?
2021-02-09T10:49:46 < mawk> with a beanie on your head
2021-02-09T10:49:52 < mawk> and drinking coffee at starbucks
2021-02-09T10:50:12 < mawk> attending feminist-vegan rallies with your conscious friends
2021-02-09T10:50:27 < mawk> accurate description of Steffanx 
2021-02-09T10:51:05 < mouseghost> i think being here makes you belong in the worker class
2021-02-09T10:51:19 < mouseghost> to be rich you need to go to #startups or something
2021-02-09T10:52:18 < mawk> clevo BIOS was easy to hack
2021-02-09T10:52:21 < mawk> it's insyde bios
2021-02-09T10:52:40 < mawk> well easy, relatively, but easier than all the other ones
2021-02-09T10:56:11 < mawk> the guy from support said I won't be able to fully clean the liquid metal shit
2021-02-09T10:56:18 < mawk> he said "do your best"
2021-02-09T10:56:30 < mawk> he speaks french btw, I think it's his main language
2021-02-09T10:56:42 < mawk> I told him either english or french is fine for me and he chose french
2021-02-09T10:58:37 < Steffanx> He said: Je ne parle pas français
2021-02-09T11:00:43 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T11:00:44 < mawk> no
2021-02-09T11:07:09 < drzacek> Hello there
2021-02-09T11:07:52 < drzacek> I tried uploading my project to stm32f411 black pill yesterday using usb cable and "dfuse demo" on windows. It all said it succeeded, yet the original led blink demo program was still running
2021-02-09T11:08:21 < drzacek> is it possible there is some flash protect thingy active? why didn't it said "flashing failed" or something?
2021-02-09T11:08:41 < drzacek> anyways, I finally got my stlink v2 today so I can try flashing with stlink
2021-02-09T11:21:02 < jpa-> you could try running full erase from the dfuse demo program
2021-02-09T11:21:09 < jpa-> if it has that button
2021-02-09T11:21:28 < dongs> dfuse can definitely erase
2021-02-09T11:21:32 < drzacek> oh ffs, another fake stlink
2021-02-09T11:22:12 < mawk> buy on farnell/mouser/digikey maybe
2021-02-09T11:22:16 < mawk> if you want to avoid fakes
2021-02-09T11:22:18 < karlp> dongs: had been thinking of using it for the hubbish thingy, yeah, if I'm redoing it to fix things, thought I might as well put on a wide voltage 6A thing.
2021-02-09T11:22:39 < karlp> and was realyl thinking, "would be nice to use freecad constraints to make this footprint instead of kicad pad center stuff."
2021-02-09T11:22:40 < drzacek> I got nice blue stlink years ago, but can't find it, so I bought few more, gave one to friend and tried the other one now
2021-02-09T11:22:46 < mawk> if you buy a "stlink" on aliexpress the result you get is expected
2021-02-09T11:22:48 < karlp> I just don't do this shit enough
2021-02-09T11:22:58 < drzacek> also got the "official" one, the white soap-shaped thingy
2021-02-09T11:23:09 < mawk> why the quotes?
2021-02-09T11:23:09 < drzacek> but the pinout on that thing is confusing af, can't get it to work
2021-02-09T11:23:18 < mawk> what
2021-02-09T11:23:43 < mawk> maybe you have a bad one
2021-02-09T11:23:45 < mawk> it happens
2021-02-09T11:23:52 < mawk> I'm not sure the issue is confusing pinout
2021-02-09T11:24:02 < drzacek> wait, I'll make a pic
2021-02-09T11:24:04 < mawk> because you don't seem to be the kind of guy that forgets to breathe
2021-02-09T11:26:22 < drzacek> it's 20 pin header, the picture doesn't fit the actuall real-world pin header on the device, and measuring voltages on pins with multimeter also doesn't clear stuff up
2021-02-09T11:26:54 < karlp> didn't actually think of making it in freecad and then tracing a dxf, but probably would have been smart.
2021-02-09T11:27:04 < mawk> there's documentation for the pinout drzacek 
2021-02-09T11:27:09 < drzacek> https://imgur.com/a/pzneK0z
2021-02-09T11:27:12 < mawk> you just need dupont wires to connect
2021-02-09T11:28:03 < drzacek> mawk, I've been looking at the https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00026748-stlinkv2-incircuit-debuggerprogrammer-for-stm8-and-stm32-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-02-09T11:28:18 < mawk> connect VDD_TARGET, SWDIO, SWCLK, GND
2021-02-09T11:28:21 < mawk> should be enough
2021-02-09T11:28:26 < mawk> you can add NRST also
2021-02-09T11:28:42 < drzacek> but it only delivers 5V
2021-02-09T11:28:46 < drzacek> I don't want to fry the board
2021-02-09T11:28:52 < mawk> it doesn't deliver
2021-02-09T11:28:55 < mawk> it receives
2021-02-09T11:29:06 < mawk> VDD_TARGET is used to read the target voltage
2021-02-09T11:29:13 < mawk> target has to be powered independantly
2021-02-09T11:29:44 < dongs> "delivers"? STLINK never pwoers target
2021-02-09T11:30:08 < drzacek> I've been powering my blue pills with stlink like forever
2021-02-09T11:30:14 < dongs> yeah, fake chink stlink
2021-02-09T11:30:20 < dongs> the real one has actual level shifters
2021-02-09T11:30:24 < drzacek> imho much more comfortable to use
2021-02-09T11:30:28 < dongs> so you can jtag a 1.8V or 3.3V etc target
2021-02-09T11:31:06 < drzacek> can you please tell me how to decipher pin numbers on that big st link then?
2021-02-09T11:31:28 < mawk> I just type stlink pinout on google
2021-02-09T11:31:35 < mawk> and look on google images
2021-02-09T11:31:37 < dongs> < drzacek> can you please tell me how to decipher pin numbers on that big st link then?
2021-02-09T11:31:38 < drzacek> yeah been there done that
2021-02-09T11:31:42 < dongs> its standard ARM JTAG pinout
2021-02-09T11:32:10 < drzacek> https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00026748-stlinkv2-incircuit-debuggerprogrammer-for-stm8-and-stm32-stmicroelectronics.pdf page 13 - the pin 1 is on the right, but the "nose" is at the top
2021-02-09T11:32:18 < karlp> dongs: omega-ja and omega-jc are much better on the silabs case than the mps though, so yeah, rdson is higher, but it's already actualyl really low.
2021-02-09T11:32:32 < drzacek> while the board has nose at the bottom and pin 1 on the right (not sure if top or bottom one is the PIN1)
2021-02-09T11:32:52 < mawk> https://stm32-base.org/assets/img/pinouts/ST-LINK_V2_Official_Header.png
2021-02-09T11:32:57 < dongs> karlp: sure, different package but who knows. si has a little bigger ground pad
2021-02-09T11:33:16 < mawk> for orientation, look for the notch drzacek 
2021-02-09T11:33:17 < drzacek> mawk, and here your pin1 is at the top
2021-02-09T11:33:27 < mawk> well reverse your stlink then
2021-02-09T11:33:29 < drzacek> and if I orient my board like that (notch on the lift), it says "1" on the bottom
2021-02-09T11:33:32 < karlp> rdson is ~same as tps54627
2021-02-09T11:33:47 < mawk> what do you mean board
2021-02-09T11:33:54 < mawk> it's about the stlink
2021-02-09T11:33:58 < drzacek> stlink
2021-02-09T11:34:00 < dongs> man arm completely fucked their google search idnex
2021-02-09T11:34:08 < mawk> just orient the notch correctly
2021-02-09T11:34:10 < dongs> there used to be a nice pdf that showed all the swd/jtag pinouts
2021-02-09T11:34:15 < dongs> now i cant find it
2021-02-09T11:34:15 < mawk> and pins will match
2021-02-09T11:34:38 < dongs> https://www2.keil.com/coresight/coresight-connectors this is as close as it gets i guess
2021-02-09T11:35:27 < drzacek> https://imgur.com/a/ty5qOyi I'm looking at it, and between the bottom 2 pins there is "1"
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2021-02-09T11:35:53 < drzacek> this is what I meant when I said it's confusing
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2021-02-09T12:10:42 < dongs> https://www.segger.com/products/debug-probes/j-link/technology/interface-description/ its not confusing at all
2021-02-09T12:11:03 < dongs> same on that coresight page
2021-02-09T12:11:04 < dongs> same shit
2021-02-09T12:12:27 < mawk> done
2021-02-09T12:12:34 < mawk> I put bigger battery and new heat spreader
2021-02-09T12:13:01 < mawk> it's heavier now
2021-02-09T12:13:04 < mawk> my baby got fat
2021-02-09T12:14:46 < drzacek> in that case the "1" is placed erronououously 
2021-02-09T12:15:44 < mawk> doubtful
2021-02-09T12:15:50 < mawk> I think you just read in erroneously
2021-02-09T12:16:06 < mawk> that's likelier than ST made a mistake in printing for your stlink
2021-02-09T12:16:21 < dongs> or china made a mistake in cloning
2021-02-09T12:16:24 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T12:16:25 < dongs> haehauuhaeheauaeuhaeuehuauaeh
2021-02-09T12:17:11 < mawk> pin 1 is at the top on your picture drzacek 
2021-02-09T12:17:15 < mawk> I don't know what you're seeing
2021-02-09T12:17:21 < mawk> pin 1 is marked by · on pcb and stuff
2021-02-09T12:17:28 < mawk> but anyway, just orient the notch
2021-02-09T12:17:43 < dongs> besides, plugging shit backwards is completely OK
2021-02-09T12:17:46 < drzacek> it's hard to see on the picture, but there is one big fat "1" on the bottom side. I just ignore that symbol
2021-02-09T12:18:02 < drzacek> I connected it according to the notch orientation, st link utility managed to connect, I think?
2021-02-09T12:18:29 < mawk> drzacek: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210209111813183.png
2021-02-09T12:18:33 < mawk> that's pin 1 indicator
2021-02-09T12:19:41 < drzacek> it looks like a point on the pic, but it's actually top of the "J4"  text
2021-02-09T12:20:57 < drzacek> okay, flashing worked, thanks
2021-02-09T12:21:45 < dongs> im curious why dfu would not flash, i wonder if you clicked 'download" instead of "uploaD" button
2021-02-09T12:21:49 < dongs> beacuse the UI there is dumb as fuck
2021-02-09T12:22:06 < dongs> or the other way around
2021-02-09T12:23:03 < dongs> https://rt-net.jp/mobility/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Dfuse.png you want the "upgrade or verify"
2021-02-09T12:23:06 < dongs> not "uploaD"
2021-02-09T12:23:14 < dongs> upload reads out current shit and overwrites your data :)
2021-02-09T12:24:21 < mawk> ah ok drzacek 
2021-02-09T12:24:28 < mawk> anyway as dongs said you're mostly fine plugging stuff backwards
2021-02-09T12:24:31 < mawk> there are protection diodes
2021-02-09T12:24:41 < mawk> if you don't do it for too long
2021-02-09T12:24:52 < drzacek> yeah upload is reading the chip
2021-02-09T12:25:09 < mawk> totally makes sense
2021-02-09T12:25:11 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T12:25:47 < drzacek> I was confused there too, cause upgrade firmware isn't the same as "flash" to me
2021-02-09T12:26:36 < drzacek> yeah I was confused about the  download/upload thing too, cause you expect download to be to the pc, upload from the pc
2021-02-09T12:27:02 < drzacek> but someone explained to me the hierarchy, internet at the top, pc in the middle, and mcu at the bottom. So from MCU to PC is going UP
2021-02-09T12:27:16 < drzacek> but they could have just used "READ" and "WRITE"
2021-02-09T12:29:53 < PaulFertser> As if "File"->"Save" in your typical application doesn't actually _erase_ the file and create a new one with different contents.
2021-02-09T12:30:11 < dongs> drzacek: but read and write from what perspective?
2021-02-09T12:30:23 < dongs> read .hex file from PC?
2021-02-09T12:30:27 < dongs> write .hex file from MCU?
2021-02-09T12:30:45 < drzacek> well they could use more words, it\s not like there\s a limit
2021-02-09T12:30:52 < dongs> right
2021-02-09T12:32:27 < mawk> the pc is the uploading device
2021-02-09T12:32:35 < mawk> so "upload" button should do what it says
2021-02-09T12:32:40 < dongs> well then their wording is exactly backwards
2021-02-09T12:32:46 < dongs> because "upload" actually reads back stm -> PC
2021-02-09T12:32:59 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T12:33:07 < dongs> < dongs> https://rt-net.jp/mobility/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Dfuse.png < in here
2021-02-09T12:33:11 < mawk> I hope it's the italian branch of st that did this
2021-02-09T12:33:16 < mawk> hopefully not the french
2021-02-09T12:33:24 < dongs> it was probably some $5/hr intern
2021-02-09T12:33:28 < dongs> who did it
2021-02-09T12:33:36 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-09T12:33:51 < mawk> actually at my work the interns do the coolest job I'm kinda jealous
2021-02-09T12:33:57 < mawk> they get to make the prototypes
2021-02-09T12:44:23 < karlp> why the fuck would there be an upper limit on zooming in in gnome-documents/evince? liek, what for?!
2021-02-09T12:44:48 < jpa-> and why it is ridicuously low at 400%
2021-02-09T12:45:07 < jpa-> i've thought that maybe the reason is that they render the whole page as bitmap in ram
2021-02-09T12:45:31 < jpa-> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1154608/can-evince-pdf-reader-be-setup-to-do-larger-zoom-than-400
2021-02-09T12:46:03 < jpa-> that command seems to work for me
2021-02-09T12:47:03 < jpa-> though 2GB per document is probably quite excessive
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2021-02-09T12:47:36 < dongs> karlp: why would you use lunix in 2021
2021-02-09T12:47:40 < dongs> evince, fucking lmao
2021-02-09T12:47:47 < dongs> all those ghostscript ripoffs are just total trash
2021-02-09T12:47:55 < qyx> whats wrong with evince
2021-02-09T12:48:04 < jpa-> 2021 is year of linux desktop
2021-02-09T12:48:21 < jpa-> by end of year dongs will be using lunix also
2021-02-09T12:48:24 < qyx> better than that half functional stuff of foxit reader type
2021-02-09T12:48:25 < mawk> lol
2021-02-09T12:48:32 < dongs> acrobad is best pdf, period
2021-02-09T12:48:39 < mawk> acrobate
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2021-02-09T12:49:01 < mawk> the kde pdf viewer works pretty well
2021-02-09T12:49:07 < qyx> okular?
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2021-02-09T12:49:26 < mawk> okular
2021-02-09T12:49:28 < mawk> yes
2021-02-09T12:49:30 < mawk> I can do 1600% zoom
2021-02-09T12:50:04 < karlp> jpa-: thanks, I never thought it would something like that, I thought it was just going to be brain damage 
2021-02-09T12:50:23 < karlp> still fucking weird as shit that it cant' default a little better? is that a 20 year old default maybe?
2021-02-09T12:50:58 < jpa-> well, i guess it is enough for most people
2021-02-09T12:51:07 < karlp> huh, neat, settings updated live too.
2021-02-09T12:51:28 < jpa-> gnome is weird in that they kind of cater for the "basic users" even though who basic user really uses gnome?
2021-02-09T12:51:44 < karlp> that's gotta help for bigger documents in general  surely, so it doesn't re-load and re-render when  you scroll back and forth in an image heavy one
2021-02-09T12:55:42 < jpa-> yeah, but then again i have like 50 evince documents open now, if each had a 2GB page cache my 32GB wouldn't last long :)
2021-02-09T12:56:33 < jpa-> (i'm not sure if that is really per-document or global)
2021-02-09T12:58:00 < karlp> here mawk, yu might like this absurd sideways use of "intuitive" maths to solve irreelvant problems: https://twitter.com/3blue1brown/status/1358505668316065792
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2021-02-09T13:00:56 < mawk> nice trick karlp 
2021-02-09T13:02:54 < qyx> hm, I failed hardly with lptim
2021-02-09T13:03:15 < englishman> acrobat is even quite cheap compared to other pro soft that doesn't have as many features
2021-02-09T13:03:29 < qyx> I cannot output 32 kHz on lptim output
2021-02-09T13:03:40 < qyx> even if I could it has only a single compare unit
2021-02-09T13:03:51 < qyx> so I cannot schedule wakeup for tickless kernel mode
2021-02-09T13:03:57 < qyx> even if I could
2021-02-09T13:04:03 < qyx> it has no capture register
2021-02-09T13:04:11 < qyx> only a fuking counter or encoder mode
2021-02-09T13:04:22 < dongs> dickless mode
2021-02-09T13:04:28 < dongs> lptim sounds useless
2021-02-09T13:04:57 < dongs> are you gonna wake up every 32khz?
2021-02-09T13:05:34 < qyx> no I wanted to generate 32K for accel clkin when the mcu is sleeping
2021-02-09T13:06:02 < qyx> so fuk I have to let it run using its internal RC
2021-02-09T13:06:16 < qyx> I cannot even use PLL mode because I cannot generate 100 Hz using lptim
2021-02-09T13:06:18 < qyx> because retarded
2021-02-09T13:06:30 < qyx> so 8% or so accuracy of the RC shit
2021-02-09T13:06:44 < qyx> the only thing I can do is map DRDY to EXTI and sample the lptim counter value there
2021-02-09T13:06:49 < qyx> to know the actual sample rate
2021-02-09T13:06:55 < dongs> meh who cares about accel clkin, its got its own rc for that shit
2021-02-09T13:06:56 < qyx> and resample in software
2021-02-09T13:07:07 < qyx> I need exact freq
2021-02-09T13:07:10 < dongs> why
2021-02-09T13:07:19 < englishman> accel clkin? which accel?
2021-02-09T13:07:48 < qyx> it is a measurement device and I am doing 8192 wide fft on a 100 Hz data
2021-02-09T13:07:58 < qyx> for sub Hz resolution
2021-02-09T13:08:01 < englishman> and it needs to be in low power mode?
2021-02-09T13:08:17 < qyx> yes on a single lisocl2
2021-02-09T13:09:38 < qyx> k admitting I failed for the second time
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2021-02-09T13:39:21 < jpa-> meh, microsoft paid-for professional support "does not have the tools to read USB traces".. let's see where they redirect me next
2021-02-09T13:40:16 < jpa-> they tried to redirect to motherboard vendor, but i'm not buying that when the same issue occurs on 2007 Acer and 2020 HP laptops :)
2021-02-09T13:42:41 < dongs> whats the problem?
2021-02-09T13:42:46 < dongs> why would microsoft need your usb traces
2021-02-09T13:43:03 < jpa-> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/rndis-device-gets-randomly-disconnected-every-few/11bc3a93-417c-406b-95d3-bc22c49ebc4c  this
2021-02-09T13:43:29 < benishor> any hints for a good cheapo 100MHz sine ocxo? 
2021-02-09T13:44:11 < dongs> jpa-: , nice
2021-02-09T13:44:11 < benishor> I'm using a CVSS-945 vcxo in my gpsdo design and I can only get about 20ppb stability
2021-02-09T13:45:00 < dongs> benishor: https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/audiophile-10m/
2021-02-09T13:45:40 < BrainDamage> usually the ref is at 10MHz, why 100 out of curiosity?
2021-02-09T13:45:43 < jpa-> dongs: it's the first time i'm trying out microsoft's paid-for support, well at least they are refunding the 299 EUR that the "professional" level cost, apparently the next level is "partner" and i can't even find it :)
2021-02-09T13:45:58 < dongs> nice
2021-02-09T13:46:16 < dongs> you think its windows?
2021-02-09T13:46:19 < dongs> or your hardware/code
2021-02-09T13:46:20 < benishor> BrainDamage: I need 100MHz for my HP 70000C series SA
2021-02-09T13:46:35 < benishor> and I want to lock it with all the rest of my equipment which is running on 10MHz
2021-02-09T13:47:04 < benishor> so I have a uBlox gps module disciplining the 100MHz crystal and getting 10MHz from that through division and filtering
2021-02-09T13:47:16 < jpa-> dongs: i think most likely it is my code that is doing or not doing something, causing the windows driver to get confused
2021-02-09T13:47:42 < dongs> rndis is usb ethernet right?
2021-02-09T13:47:44 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-09T13:47:46 < dongs> or the other way around
2021-02-09T13:48:21 < BrainDamage> a vcxo won't work unless you lock in a pll with the 10MHz carrier
2021-02-09T13:48:37 < jpa-> basically i'm emulating a two-device network on STM32, so that when it is plugged to USB, software can just connect to http://[1234:5678:...]/ and STM32 will appear like good old web server
2021-02-09T13:49:14 < BrainDamage> ipv6 slaac?
2021-02-09T13:49:36 < jpa-> BrainDamage: yeah
2021-02-09T13:51:35 < dongs> what do you mean two-device? 
2021-02-09T13:51:42 < dongs> there's a real ethernet and a fkae usb one?
2021-02-09T13:51:49 < BrainDamage> point to point link
2021-02-09T13:52:00 < jpa-> dongs: there is STM32, and then there is fake USB network card
2021-02-09T13:52:08 < jpa-> well, both of them in software of course
2021-02-09T13:52:24 < dongs> right, so stm shows up as uSB network, and you blog to it with http://dongs
2021-02-09T13:52:30 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-09T13:52:44 < jpa-> and the PC has address 1234::random and the web server has address 1234::1
2021-02-09T13:54:40 < jpa-> on linux the biggest issue has been that NetworkDamager gets angry with networks that do not connect to internet, but on windows it has been quite reliable.. until they got to the point where multiple machines are running 24/7, and some started bugging out
2021-02-09T13:58:08 < zyp> how is it, windows only does RNDIS out of the box, not ECM or anything?
2021-02-09T13:58:47 < jpa-> windows 10 does NCM out of the box
2021-02-09T13:59:26 < jpa-> and that was actually the initial implementation we did back in 2017 or so.. but then client decided they needed windows 7 support also, so RNDIS time it was
2021-02-09T14:00:14 < jpa-> now they are actually ok with dropping windows 7, but i'd rather just fix the one bug than redo a bunch of code and create bazillion new bugs
2021-02-09T14:02:14 < BrainDamage> networkdamager only gets angry if your network doesn't have an ipv4 by default
2021-02-09T14:02:49 < BrainDamage> you can turn off that, but it's on by default, and 99% of the users won't know better
2021-02-09T14:03:02 < zyp> hmm, my usb-c dock is based on rtl8153, which apparently does ECM
2021-02-09T14:03:19 < zyp> never tested it on windows, but I'd expect it to work
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2021-02-09T14:03:38 < jpa-> BrainDamage: yeah, i think it was that - and yeah, easy enough to configure
2021-02-09T14:03:48 < BrainDamage> you could in principle just throw a single hardcoded dhcpv4 packet with no gateway advertisement
2021-02-09T14:04:16 < jpa-> zyp: IIRC windows does not have USB ECM class driver, but of course there can be a vendor-specific one
2021-02-09T14:05:11 < jpa-> BrainDamage: maybe.. but not sure what would happen with multiple devices connected to same computer - it is easy enough to make IPv6 address based on serial number, but IPv4 could easily collide with something
2021-02-09T14:06:12 < BrainDamage> they can all have the same ipv4, it's not an issue since the ip won't be used
2021-02-09T14:06:30 < BrainDamage> otherwise, only the last ipv4 route assigned will take precedence
2021-02-09T14:06:35 < BrainDamage> as per rfc spec
2021-02-09T14:07:36 < BrainDamage> so you could hardcode say all devices to 10.55.234.111, and as long as that ip isn't used anywhere else it doesn't matter
2021-02-09T14:07:54 < BrainDamage> ofc if the pc is in a lan with that subnet, then things might go wrong ...
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2021-02-09T14:13:08 < jpa-> BrainDamage: yeah, might work
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2021-02-09T14:17:41 < mouseghost> https://youtu.be/GFAqaoSIAhg
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2021-02-09T14:53:24 < bitmask> first time using tpu, yum
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2021-02-09T14:57:08 < mawk> so you send RA packets jpa- ?
2021-02-09T14:57:24 < mawk> no I guess not necessary with ipv6
2021-02-09T14:57:27 < mawk> it's just autoconf
2021-02-09T14:59:12 < jpa-> yes, it sends router advertisements
2021-02-09T14:59:26 < jpa-> so that it can get them in the same IPv6 network address range
2021-02-09T15:00:09 < jpa-> (specifying server ipv6 address based on serial number is easier than dealing with the fully random automatically assigned link addresses)
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2021-02-09T15:33:42 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/gAT6uu9 nsfw
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2021-02-09T15:50:38 < zyp> homemade buttplug?
2021-02-09T15:53:54 < mawk> how is it soft bitmask 
2021-02-09T15:54:23 < bitmask> its TPU
2021-02-09T15:55:02 < bitmask> its not as squishy as i hoped, I'm trying with 2 perimeters instead of 3 now, I also have another roll thats 90A shore hardness, this one is 95A
2021-02-09T15:55:31 < bitmask> im not sure how much of a difference 5A is
2021-02-09T15:58:29 < bitmask> vase mode is probably best
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2021-02-09T16:01:44 < karlp> wow, got a couple of htese:  https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20MOTION%20SENSOR%20CLASSIC%20A-Professional%20LED%20Lamps%20with%20added%20function-LED%20lamps-Lamps-Digital%20Systems/com/en/GPS01_2939600/
2021-02-09T16:01:47 < karlp> they're terrible
2021-02-09T16:01:59 < karlp> also, apparently discontinued, so yay.
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2021-02-09T16:05:08 < karlp> says 15 seconds turn off, it's like 2 minuites, and one in our entrance way doesn't work at all, possibly we're too close to it?
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2021-02-09T16:05:24 < karlp> one I tried downstairs doesn't work in the fitting, I guess it's not ir permeable...
2021-02-09T16:07:57 < englishman> there weren't many good hardwire motion detectors so I just put Ikea tradfri... works better than any pro shit at a much lower price I found
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2021-02-09T16:13:54 < karlp> this is all for the common area in the stair wells and downstairs, wasn't really excited about wiring in gateways or shit eitehr
2021-02-09T16:14:07 < karlp> thought this sort of stuff should be pretty basic "does what it says, but the bulb scost more"
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2021-02-09T16:26:31 < karlp> heh, these are the "same" (one of hte left has two extra pins in top left, but they're both NC) but have _radically_ different footprint diagrams: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gPXpE.png
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2021-02-09T16:27:56 < mawk> my laptop runs cool now
2021-02-09T16:28:04 < mawk> I didn't make too bad of a job applying thermal grease it seems
2021-02-09T16:28:10 < mawk> except that I also applied thermal grease on the expensive couch
2021-02-09T16:28:13 < mawk> and ex gf will kill me
2021-02-09T16:30:15 < dongs> https://youtu.be/g6RZZn9bcG4 best korea lunix
2021-02-09T16:30:59 < mawk> hooray for clevo
2021-02-09T16:32:33 < Steffanx> Why you do this on a couch mawk
2021-02-09T16:32:40 < mawk> muh flat is small
2021-02-09T16:32:48 < mawk> I'm almost a hobo
2021-02-09T16:33:09 < mawk> also that's where my tools were
2021-02-09T16:33:14 < mawk> I just dropped the old heat pipe
2021-02-09T16:33:26 < mawk> with the thermal greased side facing down of course
2021-02-09T16:38:36 < jpa-> jadew: updates regarding the series termination / coax driving: no particular problems with reflections, but the series termination is limiting bandwidth; i'll have to add some compensation cap for that
2021-02-09T17:00:03 < zyp> neat, new work monitors include usb-c with PD
2021-02-09T17:00:13 < dongs> yeah thats like so 2021
2021-02-09T17:00:16 < dongs> both of my dells do
2021-02-09T17:00:34 < zyp> this is a lenovo something something
2021-02-09T17:00:45 < zyp> I didn't pick it, just said «sure, looks fine»
2021-02-09T17:03:44 < zyp> heh, monitor got the same rtl8153 as my other usb-c dock for ethernet
2021-02-09T17:04:59 < dongs> oh its one of those shit that has a usb-c hub thingy?
2021-02-09T17:06:56 < zyp> the monitor? yeah
2021-02-09T17:07:11 < zyp> usb-c in, four usb-a ports and an ethernet port
2021-02-09T17:07:21 < zyp> in addition to dp altmode and pd
2021-02-09T17:13:28 < Steffanx> And atleast 4k screens?
2021-02-09T17:14:17 < zyp> nah, this is 2560x1440
2021-02-09T17:14:35 < dongs> uselesss
2021-02-09T17:15:12 < zyp> totally
2021-02-09T17:16:17 < zyp> hmm, wonder if I can daisy-chain both monitors from the usb-c port
2021-02-09T17:16:24 < dongs> at 144 should be able to yea
2021-02-09T17:16:33 < dongs> you migth lose the usb hub tho
2021-02-09T17:16:37 < dongs> cuz youll need 4 dp lanes
2021-02-09T17:16:45 < dongs> 1440 can prolly go over 2 lanes of DP1.4
2021-02-09T17:16:47 < dongs> but not two
2021-02-09T17:18:06 < zyp> hmm, should be fine
2021-02-09T17:18:44 < zyp> according to wikipedia 2560x1440@60 is possible for HBR, i.e. DP1.1
2021-02-09T17:18:55 < zyp> and HBR2 is twice as fast
2021-02-09T17:19:07 < zyp> and monitor says it's running DP1.2 now, so…
2021-02-09T17:19:29 < zyp> I guess I'll search for a DP cable after I've unpacked the other monitor
2021-02-09T17:20:38 < dongs> 6.64gbps for 2560x1440@60
2021-02-09T17:20:45 < dongs> i think thats over HBR2 single lane
2021-02-09T17:24:27 < zyp> yeah, but dp+usb3 altmode has two lanes
2021-02-09T17:25:12 < zyp> asked around for a DP cable, but couldn't find any
2021-02-09T17:25:38 < zyp> so that'll wait for tomorrow
2021-02-09T17:37:53 < dongs> wait, DP cable?
2021-02-09T17:38:00 < dongs> cant you just daisy it over usb-c
2021-02-09T17:38:21 < dongs> oh hm prolly not
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2021-02-09T17:44:22 < zyp> well, if it had usb-c out then sure
2021-02-09T17:44:34 < dongs> well it doesnt have "dp" out either, does it?
2021-02-09T17:44:41 < zyp> it does
2021-02-09T17:46:13 < drzacek> Can I "just" flash the project from stm32cubeIDE, without running/debugging?
2021-02-09T17:46:55 < dongs> idk, why would you want to
2021-02-09T17:47:45 < Steffanx> Time for stm32cubeprogrammer for more cube madness
2021-02-09T17:47:51 < Steffanx> Cube⁴
2021-02-09T17:48:01 < bitmask> if you are crimping 4 awg lugs do you solder after crimping?
2021-02-09T17:48:40 < jpa-> bitmask: only if you are very bad at crimping
2021-02-09T17:48:45 < bitmask> haha ok
2021-02-09T17:48:57 < drzacek> cause I don't care for debugging right now and only want to flash it. I can do it with stlink utility, but while changing stuff, why not make it easier
2021-02-09T17:50:06 < Steffanx> Just add a command..
2021-02-09T17:50:24 < Steffanx> Google: stm32cubeide flash only, first hit
2021-02-09T18:00:06 < bitmask> so im building a car jump starter, who thinks its gonna explode? im taking bets
2021-02-09T18:03:08 < BrainDamage> I remember when I jump started a guy many years ago in the snow, that car was ancient and the engine fixtures were busted, the engine jumped in the hood while starting and evn a little whilee going
2021-02-09T18:03:34 < bitmask> fun
2021-02-09T18:03:46 < dongs> isnt a car starter these days just a RC lipo battery
2021-02-09T18:04:22 < bitmask> im using what I have on  hand, they are 8Ah lipo cells (3s1p)
2021-02-09T18:04:40 < bitmask> rated for 200A
2021-02-09T18:04:40 < drzacek> oh hey it worked
2021-02-09T18:04:53 < drzacek> had to reinstall that st link server thingy cause somehow it was crying about it
2021-02-09T18:06:01 < bitmask> just gotta design a housing for it so im not going crazy trying not to short it
2021-02-09T18:07:20 < BrainDamage> you might want a switch, i wouldn't want my hands near the contact of 200A, molten metal may spray
2021-02-09T18:07:20 < bitmask> cut some jumper cables in half and crimped lugs on the cut end, just gotta figure out how I wanna connect the lugs to the case
2021-02-09T18:08:18 < bitmask> what kinda switch would handle that
2021-02-09T18:08:30 < BrainDamage> knife switch
2021-02-09T18:08:35 < bitmask> ahh
2021-02-09T18:09:25 < BrainDamage> at least don't rely on the jumper cable jaws to make the contact, because it will spark
2021-02-09T18:09:32 < BrainDamage> and possibly melt eiter
2021-02-09T18:09:32 < bitmask> right
2021-02-09T18:10:30 < bitmask> do I need diodes for this?
2021-02-09T18:10:46 < bitmask> how would that even work
2021-02-09T18:11:38 < bitmask> im worried when the car starts that the alternator kicks in and the voltage is 14+ which is higher than the battery
2021-02-09T18:12:46 < BrainDamage> then it just means that the alternator starts charging the batt
2021-02-09T18:12:56 < BrainDamage> at few tens of A
2021-02-09T18:13:01 < bitmask> heh
2021-02-09T18:13:04 < bitmask> exactly
2021-02-09T18:13:33 < BrainDamage> if you don't leave it there and disconnect the switch you should be ok
2021-02-09T18:13:49 < BrainDamage> however, don't be late :p
2021-02-09T18:14:00 < bitmask> yea, its just gonna take a few seconds to get from inside the car to where the battery is
2021-02-09T18:14:40 < bitmask> i'll add an explosive charge fuse that pops the knife switch out when the voltage is higher than the battery :P
2021-02-09T18:14:43 < BrainDamage> well, the advantage of a switch is that you can have the cables reach the dashboard
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2021-02-09T18:15:13 < bitmask> yea i guess i just dont want the battery inside the car... or near me.. when using it
2021-02-09T18:15:21 < bitmask> not sure how much i trust these cells
2021-02-09T18:15:36  * Laurenceb has cracked his radar problem
2021-02-09T18:15:43 < Laurenceb> this is too easy
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2021-02-09T18:16:27 < Laurenceb> CWFM using silicon radar dev kit -> ADC at 500ksps sampling ->LO with control loop to give max power in FFT -> 128 bin FFT -> SLAM
2021-02-09T18:16:44 < Laurenceb> SLAM output fine tunes velocity derived from LO frequency
2021-02-09T18:16:52 < Laurenceb> this can easily run on F3
2021-02-09T18:22:18 < BrainDamage> then the system heats up, the LO drifts and the crazy laurenceb project accelerates into a wall
2021-02-09T18:22:41 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-02-09T18:22:48 < Laurenceb> LO is a digital "LO"
2021-02-09T18:23:02 < Laurenceb> synthesized by the processor
2021-02-09T18:23:22 < jpa-> doesn't stop it drifting, but it's not like LO drift would matter much in a doppler radar
2021-02-09T18:23:30 < Laurenceb> the same physical oscillator is used for modulation and demod so temperature is compensated
2021-02-09T18:24:08 < Laurenceb> jpa-: yeah, this system is going to be so accurate the physical LO drift will be a source of error
2021-02-09T18:24:22 < Laurenceb> like +-10ppm velocity accuracy
2021-02-09T18:24:44 < Laurenceb> so even a TCXO will contribute to the velocity accuracy error budget
2021-02-09T18:24:45 < BrainDamage> if he uses the same LO for TX and RX, then most of the issues are solved
2021-02-09T18:24:49 < Laurenceb> exactly
2021-02-09T18:25:09 < Laurenceb> only a few ppm from the TCXO drift
2021-02-09T18:25:44 < Laurenceb> looks like +-0.1% velocity error at 1kHz output rate, 50kph velocity
2021-02-09T18:26:10 < Laurenceb> goes down to +-10ppm with 0.5s averaging
2021-02-09T18:26:10 < BrainDamage> but otherwise, exactly because c is so fast, an small relative drift of LO gives you a large speed mismatc
2021-02-09T18:26:48 < BrainDamage> relative as in RX/TX drift
2021-02-09T18:27:15 < Laurenceb> only issue with the Silicon Radar dev kit is tx and rx go through the same polythene lens, but are ~3mm apart
2021-02-09T18:27:29 < Laurenceb> so the beams have poor overlap
2021-02-09T18:27:56 < BrainDamage> freq?
2021-02-09T18:28:01 < Laurenceb> I wonder if strips of tape on the flat surface of the lens would help broaden the beams a little, giving overlap
2021-02-09T18:28:13 < Laurenceb> 122GHz and 300GHz are available
2021-02-09T18:28:54 < BrainDamage> a small cone that encompasses both tx and rx shoul work
2021-02-09T18:29:21 < BrainDamage> calculate the taper so it ends in a circular/square waveguide impedance at the lens
2021-02-09T18:30:04 < BrainDamage> depending on the slot ofc
2021-02-09T18:31:26 < Laurenceb> hmm interesting
2021-02-09T18:31:55 < Laurenceb> but I suspect the rx antenna seeing the full field from tx might be bad
2021-02-09T18:33:22 < BrainDamage> how big are the slots?
2021-02-09T18:34:29 < Laurenceb> https://siliconradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/TRX-120-001-front-2.jpg
2021-02-09T18:34:40 < Laurenceb> its 4 patch antenna
2021-02-09T18:35:21 < Laurenceb> https://siliconradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FAM-3D_start.png
2021-02-09T18:36:04 < BrainDamage> then the metal strips should work, careful of the diffraction pattern tho
2021-02-09T18:36:26 < dongs> why is laurence/b/ always schemin some weird shit
2021-02-09T18:36:49 < Laurenceb> cuz thats my jerb
2021-02-09T18:37:40 < BrainDamage> some people get off being choked, he does when messing with crazy projects
2021-02-09T18:45:19 < bitmask> hmm this should work well enough: https://i.imgur.com/70RqGl4.png
2021-02-09T18:51:33 < Laurenceb> arg wtf
2021-02-09T18:51:45 < Laurenceb> silicon radar F3 codez is closed sores
2021-02-09T18:51:47 < Laurenceb> fail
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2021-02-09T19:14:27 < englishman> I'm sure they'll open up when you commit to 100k units/year
2021-02-09T19:36:56 < jpa-> meh, my microsoft support experience is going downhill fast; now they are suggesting that i contact the usb device vendor "who will have better tools to debug your issue".. i guess i didn't make it clear enough that i am the vendor and these are the tools i have :)
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2021-02-09T19:38:57 < Steffanx> How far into the backlog do I have to go to read whats up mr jpa- ?
2021-02-09T19:40:26 < jpa-> Steffanx: 6 hours
2021-02-09T19:43:40 < qyx> I hope you are blogging hard about the issue
2021-02-09T19:44:15 < qyx> this accel's documentation is wtf
2021-02-09T19:44:35 < jpa-> i'm mostly trying to avoid paid work, so that i would have more time to waste my money on proto pcbs
2021-02-09T19:44:41 < qyx> I encountered few interesting issues too which I would expect to be in errata
2021-02-09T19:44:45 < qyx> there is no such section
2021-02-09T19:45:04 < qyx> like reading from FIFO until a "fifo empty" packet is found
2021-02-09T19:45:20 < qyx> if you read again, instead of rading "fifo empty" the fifo offsets itself
2021-02-09T19:47:38 < Steffanx> Invensense?
2021-02-09T19:50:14 < dongs> you mean TDK
2021-02-09T19:51:05 < qyx> they say TDK InvenSense, so both
2021-02-09T19:51:09 < Steffanx> Try the BNO055 from Bosch. That one is a joke
2021-02-09T19:51:41 < qyx> so, after emptying the fifo, you have to wait some time to be sure there is at least one sample
2021-02-09T19:52:53 < Steffanx> Bosch admits there is an issue, identified the issue: but we're not sure if we update the firmware on newly manufacured devices
2021-02-09T19:55:19 < Steffanx> Are you the first one to use it qyx?
2021-02-09T19:55:39 < qyx> no, there was one such soul in the past
2021-02-09T19:56:02 < qyx> PX4 autopilot
2021-02-09T19:56:36 < qyx> ICM-42688-P
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2021-02-09T20:52:36 < Thorn> high quality musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHon6yg-r8
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2021-02-09T21:33:22 < Laurenceb> https://siliconradar.com/wiki/Lenses_%26_Reflectors
2021-02-09T21:33:25 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-02-09T21:33:30 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage was right
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2021-02-09T22:01:41 < ColdKeyboard> Any suggestion for a micro DC valve for turning water on/off?
2021-02-09T22:01:52 < ColdKeyboard> Or are they called differently?
2021-02-09T22:02:07 < catphish> solenoid valve
2021-02-09T22:02:19 < catphish> (i assume)
2021-02-09T22:18:37 < Thorn> no strcpy_s in arm-none-eabi-gcc?
2021-02-09T22:19:11 < Thorn> neither 9.3 nor 10.2
2021-02-09T22:21:11 < Laurenceb> hmf siliconradar published the lens pattern somewhere now I cant find it
2021-02-09T22:21:19 < Laurenceb> nvm this is almost identical https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261267765_122_GHz_radar_sensor_based_on_a_monostatic_SiGe-BiCMOS_IC_with_an_on-chip_antenna/link/54241dff0cf26120b7a71c0d/download
2021-02-09T22:32:32 < fenugrec> looks like it's optional... there are libs of course though https://github.com/rurban/safeclib
2021-02-09T22:39:13 < Thorn> not sure how usable they will be on a MCU though
2021-02-09T22:46:10 < Laurenceb> hmm looks like a horn is 2 to 3dB better than a lens, BrainDamage wins
2021-02-09T22:47:00 < Laurenceb> but lens prob has better off axis rejection if its inside a tube with some microwave absorbant lining
2021-02-09T22:50:12 < BrainDamage> this is the sort of thing you can spend a few days simulating, or spend 10 mins testing it
2021-02-09T22:50:42 < BrainDamage> you'll directly have figures about improvement and if it's worth it
2021-02-09T22:53:28 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-09T22:53:51 < Laurenceb> yeah I need to speak to siliconradar
2021-02-09T22:54:21 < Laurenceb> looks like they arent completely closed sores, they will send you their stm32 libs for controlling the shit, just not full code, but thats all I need
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2021-02-09T23:17:40 < Steffanx> im 100% sure you are going to try something their api does not provide Laurenceb  :P
2021-02-09T23:20:53 < Laurenceb> what's brown and sticky?
2021-02-09T23:20:57 < Laurenceb> a stick
2021-02-09T23:21:24 < Laurenceb> whats the difference between the russian mars rover and the UAE mars rover?
2021-02-09T23:22:04 < Laurenceb> russian rover explodes on landing, UAE rover lands ok, but explodes later as its a SVBIED rover
2021-02-09T23:24:48 < Steffanx> are those /wathever/ jokes Laurenceb ?
2021-02-09T23:24:54 < karlp> hehe, local bar made a video about getting ot re-open after four months: https://www.facebook.com/KaldiBarCafe/videos/744006459564525
2021-02-09T23:25:36 < Steffanx> bars openening, no masks, no distancing karlp ?
2021-02-09T23:25:51 < karlp> masks until seated.
2021-02-09T23:26:15 < Laurenceb> bbc is like quantum masks
2021-02-09T23:26:19 < karlp> it's been a bit of ar argument here with "cafes" that are bars being open, but bars that dont' sell croissants not being open
2021-02-09T23:26:31 < Laurenceb> >masks are pseudoscientific 
2021-02-09T23:26:39 < karlp> but we've been ~zero for two weeks now
2021-02-09T23:26:41 < Laurenceb> >not wearing masks  is antiscience
2021-02-09T23:27:04 < Steffanx> the brits didnt find iceland yet?
2021-02-09T23:27:39 < karlp> some icelanders living in uk came home,
2021-02-09T23:27:41 < karlp> but otherwise ok,
2021-02-09T23:27:55 < fenugrec> didnt another pub make basically the same ad X months ago
2021-02-09T23:27:57 < karlp> we've strengtehend border testing a bit, but it's still our big weakspot I think.
2021-02-09T23:28:04 < karlp> fenugrec: probably? 
2021-02-09T23:28:19 < karlp> might be a ripoff/tribute, but it's a lot of effort for a bar here by normal standards.
2021-02-09T23:28:19 < Laurenceb> is that a basedblack guy
2021-02-09T23:28:29 < karlp> what?
2021-02-09T23:28:54 < fenugrec> yeah in .de i think ? or could be a repost
2021-02-09T23:36:14 < zyp> jpa-, haha, nice
2021-02-09T23:48:19 < karlp> quacktel docs refer to a w_disable pin, that's not listed in teh pin outs :)
2021-02-09T23:48:29 < karlp> I guess they copied that section from some other module
2021-02-09T23:49:26 < Thorn> https://code.woboq.org/userspace/glibc/string/strlen.c.html
2021-02-09T23:49:58 < Thorn> >elucidatory comments
2021-02-09T23:53:08 < englishman> fenugrec: did you know that when you buy a single croissant you pay tax
2021-02-09T23:53:12 < englishman> but when you buy 6 you do not
2021-02-09T23:56:03 < karlp> "Use RESET_N only when turning off the module by AT+QPOWD command and PWRKEY pin failed."
2021-02-09T23:56:05 < fenugrec> englishman, I did not. But you know what to do now
2021-02-09T23:56:06 < karlp> wat.
2021-02-09T23:57:13 < Steffanx> I recall reading similar comments in a ds of a telit module
2021-02-09T23:57:26 < qyx> same in simcom
2021-02-09T23:57:45 < qyx> fuk this pwrkey shit
2021-02-09T23:57:58 < qyx> asi if there couldn't be an EN pin or whatever
2021-02-09T23:58:17 < qyx> less braindamaged than poking pwr_key for a random time
--- Day changed Wed Feb 10 2021
2021-02-10T00:01:01 < zyp> some of the modules I worked with at STE had that shit
2021-02-10T00:01:21 < zyp> «assert this signal for this long to turn on or off»
2021-02-10T00:01:43 < qyx> yeah and then wait for some boot_ok pin to go high
2021-02-10T00:01:52 < qyx> if it doesn't, wait longer
2021-02-10T00:02:02 < zyp> because it was using a PMIC that was originally designed for a featurephone, to be wired to the actual power button
2021-02-10T00:02:03 < qyx> if not enougn, assert pwr_key again
2021-02-10T00:02:22 < qyx> if still nothing, cycle the power and try again
2021-02-10T00:02:35 < qyx> zyp: actuall makes sense, it behaves exactly the same way
2021-02-10T00:03:27 < zyp> I believe the older modules were actually a full featurephone chipset just configured to act as a slave to the android system
2021-02-10T00:03:39 < zyp> hooked up over SPI or something
2021-02-10T00:03:48 < zyp> but I never worked with those
2021-02-10T00:04:23 < zyp> all the setups I worked with was MIPI HSI or HSIC
2021-02-10T00:04:36 < zyp> but some of them still used the dumb PMIC
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2021-02-10T00:14:17 < karlp> damnit. if I ws doing an allwinner h3 design from scratch, I'd use the ability to have different voltages on different io ports....
2021-02-10T00:14:51 < karlp> instead, I get "simple" with 3.3v for all of them.
2021-02-10T00:15:48 < karlp> fucking all three are on 3v3.
2021-02-10T00:16:20 < zyp> fine unless you have particular interfacing needs
2021-02-10T00:16:56 < karlp> well, quacktel is 1.8v, 2.3v abs max
2021-02-10T00:17:18 < qyx> I went with 1V8 io on that mp1
2021-02-10T00:17:28 < karlp> they have a 1.8v out ref for doing things, but needs more trickery than just setting one bank to 1.8v io would have been
2021-02-10T00:17:45 < qyx> txs0102 then
2021-02-10T00:17:53 < karlp> yeah, bleh
2021-02-10T00:18:11 < karlp> still going over which bits I need, and which bits I _should_ have, and which bits I eally don't need.
2021-02-10T00:18:25 < karlp> but.  that's work. and it's not work time.
2021-02-10T00:18:32 < karlp> so I shoudlnt' be looking at that anymore.
2021-02-10T00:19:37 < Steffanx> Beer o'clock?
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2021-02-10T00:23:46 < englishman> at least you get 3v3
2021-02-10T00:24:03 < englishman> and not fuckin 3v3 on all pins except 1v8 on the sdio pins so you still have to put a level shifter
2021-02-10T00:26:20 < zyp> well, with sd cards you kinda have to
2021-02-10T00:26:30 < zyp> if you wanna go fast
2021-02-10T00:27:08 < zyp> IIRC spec says you should always start at 3.3V and then negotiate a switch to 1.8V if you wanna use any of the DDR modes
2021-02-10T00:28:35 < englishman> yes
2021-02-10T00:28:45 < englishman> but then why fix it at 1.8
2021-02-10T00:28:50 < zyp> true
2021-02-10T00:36:11 < karlp> hrm, push-push sim card holder for nano sim seems reallllly fiddly.
2021-02-10T00:36:52 < mawk> we use a regular push pull thing
2021-02-10T00:36:57 < mawk> it works good enough
2021-02-10T00:37:01 < mawk> why would you take the push push one?
2021-02-10T00:37:12 < karlp> so you can get it back out agian?
2021-02-10T00:37:21 < mawk> you can get it back out again with the push pull one
2021-02-10T00:37:30 < mawk> if you have nails, or otherwise with a screwdriver or whatever
2021-02-10T00:37:32 < karlp> but you have to have more available to grab it to pull with
2021-02-10T00:37:33 < mawk> but nails usually work
2021-02-10T00:37:43 < karlp> and it's going to go behind the case.
2021-02-10T00:37:58 < karlp> nano sim push-push seems bad enough, I can't even imaging push-pull
2021-02-10T00:38:23 < mawk> the one we have isn't totally enclosing the sim, so you can push to sim from behind to get it back
2021-02-10T00:38:40 < qyx> I would ban push-pull
2021-02-10T00:38:40 < karlp> you'd have to be able to get to th eback then...
2021-02-10T00:38:43 < karlp> ie, open it
2021-02-10T00:38:47 < karlp> eah, push-pull seems horrible
2021-02-10T00:39:05 < mawk> esim ftw
2021-02-10T00:39:11 < mawk> nothing to push or pull
2021-02-10T00:40:53 < karlp> esim was desired
2021-02-10T00:41:06 < karlp> but I don't hve time to figure out the contracting and preferred default list shits
2021-02-10T00:41:24 < karlp> and if we do, yhou can actualy get esim in nano/microsim form factors :)
2021-02-10T00:41:37 < karlp> this looks ok, https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/memory_card_socket/5039600696
2021-02-10T00:41:47 < karlp> good stock in china, cheap
2021-02-10T00:46:16 < karlp> is digikey shit slow today or just me?
2021-02-10T00:46:38 < zyp> seems fine here
2021-02-10T00:47:20 < Steffanx> yeah, not more slow than ever
2021-02-10T00:49:46 < karlp> I mena, its been slow as shit since the remodel IMO
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2021-02-10T04:24:04 < jadew> "The Maccabi Health Fund studied 163,000 Israelis who had received two doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine. Only 31 of them caught COVID-19 after they were fully vaccinated. In an equivalent sample of unvaccinated Israelis, almost 6,500 developed the disease."
2021-02-10T04:24:34 < jadew> they then go to say: "The study shows the Pfizer vaccine had 92 percent effectiveness"
2021-02-10T04:25:39 < jadew> but (1 - 31 / 6500) * 100 = 99.5% so I'm not sure how they calculate that
2021-02-10T04:27:29 < R2COM> best vaccine gonna be chinese, cuz those who created virus know antidot right away
2021-02-10T04:27:35 < jadew> haha
2021-02-10T04:27:50 < R2COM> not sure why you laugh cuz it wasnt a joke
2021-02-10T04:28:11 < jadew> I hear it's already being used, but I didn't look up data on it
2021-02-10T04:29:35 < R2COM> turkey using their vaccine now
2021-02-10T04:30:34 < jadew> Turkey and Indonesia showed that the vaccine was 91.25% and 65.3% effective respectively.
2021-02-10T04:31:19 < jadew> "Researchers in Brazil initially said it was 78% effective in their clinical trials, but in January 2021 revised that figure to 50.4% after including more data in their calculations."
2021-02-10T04:31:30 < jadew> 50.4% sounds more plausible
2021-02-10T04:33:10 < jadew> the UAE is also using a chinese vaccine (there appear to be two), and they said it's 86% effective
2021-02-10T04:33:20 < R2COM> anyway, it works
2021-02-10T04:33:29 < jadew> yeah
2021-02-10T04:33:31 < R2COM> just dont use russian vaccine (sputnik V) if you wanna live
2021-02-10T04:33:43 < jadew> PaulFertser, still alive?
2021-02-10T04:34:26 < jadew> according to this article Sputnik V is 92% effective, which is quite a feat if true
2021-02-10T04:34:41 < R2COM> but its not surprising tho, nothing made by russia works nowadays, neither vaccine nor the anti-drone air defence systems TOR, Pantsyr even s300
2021-02-10T04:34:58 < R2COM> sputnik v has some temperature dependence i heard
2021-02-10T04:35:35 < R2COM> lol russian high tech air defence got fucked up recently in some conflicts
2021-02-10T04:36:03 < jadew> what happened and who were they fighting?
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2021-02-10T04:37:56 < R2COM> doesnt matter. but russia got expensive nebo-m, s300, tor-m2km destroyed recently in a bitchlapping way
2021-02-10T04:38:07 < R2COM> and lost actually their expensive crew there too
2021-02-10T04:39:07 < R2COM> so, huge decline for recent years in science, technology, and medicine too, their vaccine is useless really
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2021-02-10T09:25:33 < PaulFertser> jadew: yes, and in general moscow is doing well, there's almost no lockdown measures left here.
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2021-02-10T09:41:22 < BrainDamage> jadew: you need to correct the result for the tests' false positive and false negative ratios
2021-02-10T09:41:41 < BrainDamage> then take the most stringent hypothesis
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2021-02-10T10:27:00 < jadew> BrainDamage, that makes sense
2021-02-10T10:27:14 < jadew> PaulFertser, glad to hear you're well :)
2021-02-10T10:27:37 < PaulFertser> jadew: thank you.
2021-02-10T10:27:50 < PaulFertser> I hope you and your friends are well too.
2021-02-10T10:28:07 < jadew> thank you
2021-02-10T10:29:07 < mawk> how long did the fever last PaulFertser ?
2021-02-10T10:29:15 < mawk> after the shots
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2021-02-10T11:13:26 < PaulFertser> mawk: well, I'm kind of an exception having more visible reaction than the most others.
2021-02-10T11:14:07 < Steffanx> Your mom too you said PaulFertser ?
2021-02-10T11:14:10 < PaulFertser> mawk: after the first part I got up to 39.4 12 hours past the injection. And headache. Took one paracetamol pill, then 5 hours later another due to headache.
2021-02-10T11:14:29 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: right
2021-02-10T11:14:54 < PaulFertser> mawk: and then for about 20 hours I was feeling rather unfit and 37.5 steadily.
2021-02-10T11:15:27 < PaulFertser> mawk: after the second part it was much milder, just about 24 hours of the same unfit + 37.5.
2021-02-10T11:16:11 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I was talking to a doctor prior to the second shot, and he told me such a high fever is probably one in 80 in his experience.
2021-02-10T11:21:08 < jpa-> PaulFertser: what kind of debug interface does the sputnik microchip have? does it respond to RFID?
2021-02-10T11:22:46 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I haven't bought the Flipper Zero hacker tamagochi yet to find it out.
2021-02-10T11:33:07  * karlp lols
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2021-02-10T12:39:18 < jpa-> wohoo, microsoft support is advancing: "I found how I can transfer your case directly to the development support queue"
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2021-02-10T12:40:59 < Steffanx> Sauna Party tiiimme jpa- 
2021-02-10T12:46:22 < mawk> what's the issue jpa- 
2021-02-10T12:46:49 < jpa-> mawk: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/rndis-device-gets-randomly-disconnected-every-few/11bc3a93-417c-406b-95d3-bc22c49ebc4c?tm=1612170835272
2021-02-10T12:47:05 < jpa-> i can't believe how many people are having this issue, every time i share the link there are more ;)
2021-02-10T12:48:06 < mawk> t*kood
2021-02-10T12:48:17 < mawk> it's the secret NSA backdoor enabling code
2021-02-10T12:48:28 < mawk> your device should answer with "all hail capitalism" and windows lets it keep running
2021-02-10T12:48:51 < mawk> I guess you're having fun times debugging this
2021-02-10T12:49:50 < jpa-> i should really just make some stupid workaround like switch to USB-NCM or real ethernet, that would be a lot more consulting money for me and would be done already.. but i'm lazy
2021-02-10T12:49:50 < Steffanx> Lol I have this issue as well jpa- 
2021-02-10T12:49:57 < mawk> >Microsoft is aware of reports of problems with RNDIS USB network adapters after installing the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. We are working on the problem and hope to have a solution released in a future Windows Update.
2021-02-10T12:51:31 < jpa-> mawk: AFAIK that was mostly that the correct driver wasn't getting installed automatically for some devices
2021-02-10T12:51:42 < mawk> ah yes
2021-02-10T12:51:46 < mawk> but not your case
2021-02-10T12:52:16 < mawk> what's the J for?
2021-02-10T12:52:18 < mawk> I get the PA now
2021-02-10T12:52:37 < jpa-> joking
2021-02-10T12:52:42 < mawk> lol
2021-02-10T12:53:48 < zyp> haha
2021-02-10T12:55:11 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210210_125323.jpg   in other news, my hipot tester started smoking during reflow, but it didn't smoke during test run, *and* my keyboard is still working
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2021-02-10T13:07:29 < mawk> when it smokes during reflow it's just plastic right
2021-02-10T13:07:36 < mawk> it couldn't really hurt
2021-02-10T13:07:45 < mawk> unless what smoked is a zif connector
2021-02-10T13:07:54 < jadew> right, cuz plastic is good for you
2021-02-10T13:08:02 < jadew> there's also glue from the PCB
2021-02-10T13:08:15 < mawk> I mean hurt the pcb
2021-02-10T13:08:15 < jpa-> mawk: nah, it was FR4 that smoked
2021-02-10T13:08:20 < mawk> we don't care about human
2021-02-10T13:08:21 < mawk> ah
2021-02-10T13:08:31 < jpa-> delaminated in one corner, but no parts there anyway
2021-02-10T13:08:47 < mawk> FR that smokes, quite ironic
2021-02-10T13:08:55 < jpa-> didn't flame
2021-02-10T13:09:18 < jpa-> it isn't "smoke retardant" :)
2021-02-10T13:09:37 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-10T13:09:41 < mawk> half ironic then
2021-02-10T13:09:54 < mawk> since the saying says "there's no smoke without a fire"
2021-02-10T13:10:04 < jpa-> though the smoke might make me a retard, not sure yet
2021-02-10T13:10:08 < mawk> lol
2021-02-10T13:10:29 < mawk> when I burnt epoxy blob with a blowtorch and breathed all the smoke, it gave me cluster headache for a weekend
2021-02-10T13:10:29 < jpa-> at least it still smells like burned electronics even though it was two hours ago
2021-02-10T13:10:41 < mawk> it was more or less the most painful thing that ever happened to me
2021-02-10T13:10:41 < jadew> you did it inside?
2021-02-10T13:10:44 < mawk> yes
2021-02-10T13:11:38 < jpa-> were you out of other drugs?
2021-02-10T13:11:56 < jpa-> or, were you so high on other drugs?
2021-02-10T13:12:15 < mawk> no I was doing nothing at that time
2021-02-10T13:12:15 < jadew> my first oven that I used for reflowing was able to reflow without fuming the FR4
2021-02-10T13:12:25 < jadew> it was a really nice oven, I threw it out thinking it was shit
2021-02-10T13:12:25 < mawk> I mean I had a fan and mechanical ventilation
2021-02-10T13:12:29 < mawk> but not enough apparently
2021-02-10T13:12:34 < karlp> what is a "cluster headache" ?
2021-02-10T13:12:38 < mawk> migraine?
2021-02-10T13:12:40 < jadew> then I got a new one and that's when I realized what I did
2021-02-10T13:12:43 < mawk> maybe that's an english word
2021-02-10T13:13:37 < mawk> painful headache
2021-02-10T13:13:56 < zyp> aren't headaches always painful? kinda in the name
2021-02-10T13:14:04 < mawk> yeah but not as much
2021-02-10T13:14:07 < mawk> regular headache is fine
2021-02-10T13:14:15 < mawk> cluster headache makes people kill themselves
2021-02-10T13:14:25 < mawk> when it's a chronic illness
2021-02-10T13:16:55 < mawk> anyway I don't take drugs jpa- I don't know who told you that
2021-02-10T13:17:00 < mawk> that was a long time ago
2021-02-10T13:23:35 < Steffanx> No coffee?
2021-02-10T13:23:56 < mawk> yes coffee and nicotine
2021-02-10T13:24:06 < mawk> and methadone but it's prescribed by doctor
2021-02-10T13:24:09 < mawk> and it does nothing anyway
2021-02-10T13:24:20 < Steffanx> Try not using it then
2021-02-10T13:24:27 < mawk> try not to breathe
2021-02-10T13:25:09 < mawk> it does nothing when you do it, but something when you don't
2021-02-10T13:26:38 < Steffanx> I would never say it does nothing 
2021-02-10T13:27:00 < mawk> I would
2021-02-10T13:27:19 < mawk> taking methadone is indistinguishable from not taking it for someone with no tolerance to it
2021-02-10T13:27:22 < mawk> hence it does nothing
2021-02-10T13:27:36 < mawk> https://youtu.be/q1Mm06rT10E listen to DJ Paul
2021-02-10T13:27:43 < mawk> your best friend
2021-02-10T13:28:45 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-10T13:29:18 < mawk> In Russia, methadone is illegal. Brazilian footballer assistant Robson Oliveira was arrested in 2019 upon arriving in Russia with methadone tablets sold legally in other countries and has been in jail since then for what was considered drug trafficking under Russian law.[17]
2021-02-10T13:29:19 < mawk> oh no
2021-02-10T13:29:23 < mawk> I'm never going to see PaulFertser 
2021-02-10T13:29:46 < PaulFertser> mawk: russia's stupid like that
2021-02-10T13:29:58 < karlp> mawk: yes, I'd say migraine is the common english term for this "cluster headache"
2021-02-10T13:30:32 < mawk> yeah in French too
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2021-02-10T13:31:40 < Steffanx> Except that its not the same.
2021-02-10T13:31:48 < mawk> yes
2021-02-10T13:32:18 < mawk> céphalées en grappes
2021-02-10T13:32:25 < mawk> translated by cluster headache
2021-02-10T13:32:45 < mawk> it's not the same as halo migraine, but not all migraines are like that
2021-02-10T13:32:57 < englishman> maybe you should not have smoked that epoxy
2021-02-10T13:33:01 < englishman> did you learn anything from this?
2021-02-10T13:33:04 < mawk> yes
2021-02-10T13:33:08 < mawk> open window before
2021-02-10T13:33:16 < englishman> that's your takeaway
2021-02-10T13:33:20 < mawk> lol
2021-02-10T13:33:41 < mawk> the primary intention wasn't to smoke it, just to see what's under
2021-02-10T13:35:06 < Steffanx> You should try an epoxy allergy mawk. I heard its great fun 
2021-02-10T13:35:21 < mawk> lol
2021-02-10T13:35:26 < mawk> not sure
2021-02-10T13:35:38 < mawk> flux does the same to me
2021-02-10T13:35:41 < mawk> when I breathe it
2021-02-10T13:36:22 < mawk> I have no allergy that I know of, except codeine, so to be able to exceed the lethal dose I was taking it with anti-allergic medication like a real biohacker
2021-02-10T13:37:05 < mawk> on my health record they wrote penicillin allergy but I don't know where they got that from
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2021-02-10T13:39:22 < mawk> they also forgot to write my blood group, so how can we trust them to not switch babies at birth
2021-02-10T13:41:42 < mawk> I'm 100% you haven't clicked on my paul elstak link Steffanx 
2021-02-10T13:41:51 < mawk> you're disappointing me
2021-02-10T13:42:10 < Steffanx> Yes, you are right
2021-02-10T13:42:17 < mawk> :(
2021-02-10T13:43:24 < englishman> Steffanx: lil'd wants my salmon
2021-02-10T13:45:06 < Steffanx> Give him some. He deserves it englishman 
2021-02-10T13:45:25 < mawk> who's lil'd
2021-02-10T13:46:13 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/AQhWutd.jpg
2021-02-10T13:47:24 < mawk> yes give him
2021-02-10T13:47:35 < mawk> my cat eats everything I give her
2021-02-10T13:47:39 < mawk> but then vomits it out often
2021-02-10T13:47:59 < mawk> she ate kangaroo, crocodile, foie gras, oysters, ostrich
2021-02-10T13:48:47 < englishman> he'll eat all of that plus squash, avocado, melon
2021-02-10T13:49:27 < mawk> I tried to make her eat some dutch snow, she ought to like it since she's a white cat
2021-02-10T13:49:49 < mawk> her name is "snow" in .fi I think
2021-02-10T13:49:51 < mawk> I didn't baptize her
2021-02-10T13:59:26 < karlp> we finally got some snow today
2021-02-10T14:00:33 < mawk> you can take ours
2021-02-10T14:00:42 < mawk> I almost killed myself falling into the canal
2021-02-10T14:00:44 < mawk> it's so slippery
2021-02-10T14:01:52 < Steffanx> Got your ice skates yet?
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2021-02-10T14:02:56 < mawk> never
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2021-02-10T14:39:24 < karlp> hrm, archaeology time...  will it be faste to install an old version of eagle in an old 32bit linux vm, or an old version of linux in a new windows vm?
2021-02-10T14:41:11 < zyp> why not windows eagle?
2021-02-10T14:41:24 < englishman> why is lunix even involved
2021-02-10T14:42:30 < zyp> yes
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2021-02-10T14:47:00 < karlp> yes, second option was old windows version in new windows vm
2021-02-10T14:47:05 < karlp> sorry, mis typed there
2021-02-10T14:47:32 < karlp> kicad happily imported the v7+ xml files, but old v6 and down binary files don't open.
2021-02-10T14:47:41 < karlp> and some bright spark didn't export pdfs at the time
2021-02-10T14:51:40 < fenugrec> karlp, I have eagle in a XP vm exactly for that reason. comes in handy now and then for old shit and/or downloaded stuff
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2021-02-10T19:24:54 < kakium69> building my microdik rack now
2021-02-10T19:39:48 < Steffanx> Got dik pics?
2021-02-10T19:39:59 < kakium69> soon.
2021-02-10T19:44:44 -!- kakium69 [b05d2806@176-93-40-6.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
2021-02-10T20:06:56 < qyx> I should too
2021-02-10T20:07:10 < qyx> atm it is a bunch of cables inside
2021-02-10T20:07:38 < qyx> but now I am trying to parse that damned BQ35100 ref man
2021-02-10T20:08:32 < qyx> looks like people who designed it had a generous supply of cocaine
2021-02-10T20:26:44 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-10T20:27:01  * qyx about to use VLA
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2021-02-10T20:34:55 < Steffanx> Mawk is the one you need then, qyx
2021-02-10T20:35:02 < mawk> what
2021-02-10T20:35:13 < mawk> you know I don't like cocaine Steffanx 
2021-02-10T20:35:21 < mawk> you should ask a trader on ##econometrics instead
2021-02-10T20:38:21 < Steffanx> Hm
2021-02-10T20:38:38 < BrainDamage> already too hyper on your own?
2021-02-10T20:51:39 < mawk> no BrainDamage , it's just I'm not really into stimulants
2021-02-10T20:51:42 < mawk> I already weigh 60kg
2021-02-10T20:51:47 < mawk> I want to keep eating and sleeping
2021-02-10T20:51:58 < mawk> and not become a maniac cleaning the bathroom for 8 hours with a toothbrush
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2021-02-10T21:01:05 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gvCKXhMxmK5sek6_oKzteO2s1BqZk4ab?usp=sharing bloggin
2021-02-10T21:07:36 < mawk> kakium69: my cat has a finnish name
2021-02-10T21:07:41 < mawk> does it make you happy?
2021-02-10T21:07:55 < kakium69> sure
2021-02-10T21:08:00 < kakium69> what is it?
2021-02-10T21:08:20 < mawk> snow
2021-02-10T21:08:30 < kakium69> that's english
2021-02-10T21:08:32 < mawk> in finnnish
2021-02-10T21:08:35 < kakium69> lumi
2021-02-10T21:08:38 < mawk> yes
2021-02-10T21:08:54 < mawk> I didn't give the name myself, otherwise I would've called her "chat"
2021-02-10T21:09:37 < kakium69> is it white cat?
2021-02-10T21:10:33 < mawk> yes
2021-02-10T21:19:11 < Steffanx> Not even: perkele satana 
2021-02-10T21:21:59 < kakium69> funny idea Steff
2021-02-10T21:26:07 < BrainDamage> voivittu would be more appropriate for a cat
2021-02-10T21:29:21 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-10T21:32:48 < kakium69> when you see cat doing something incredibly stupid mess you cry out "voi vittu!"
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2021-02-10T21:51:59 < qyx> meh https://www.ti.com/tool/download/BQSTUDIO-STABLE
2021-02-10T21:52:02 < qyx> windows only
2021-02-10T21:52:15 < qyx> I would expect it to be web based nowadays
2021-02-10T21:52:29 < qyx> also wtf 130 MB to calibrate a fuel gauge
2021-02-10T21:53:53 < englishman> shits complex
2021-02-10T21:54:16 < qyx> (a) I understand that this Software/Tool/Document is subject to export controls under the U.S. Commerce Department’s Export Administration Regulations ("EAR").
2021-02-10T21:54:21 < qyx> (b) I am NOT located in Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan or Syria. I understand these are prohibited destination countries under the EAR or U.S. sanctions regulations.
2021-02-10T21:54:24 < qyx> wut
2021-02-10T21:54:29 < englishman> it has encryption shit
2021-02-10T21:54:35 < englishman> to keep your seekrit battery data safez
2021-02-10T21:55:01 < englishman> also it works with a TON of BQ series stuff and has all the battery chemistry data, etc
2021-02-10T21:55:02 < qyx> yeah I am measuring lisocl2 to know if kaboom or not
2021-02-10T21:55:51 < qyx> the thing is I need to change it to lisocl2 and change the sensing reg value to 1R instead of the default 0R1 or whatever it is
2021-02-10T21:55:59 < qyx> *sensig rsistor
2021-02-10T22:14:06 < Steffanx> *sensor resisting
2021-02-10T22:15:50 < mawk> rensog sesistinr
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2021-02-10T23:13:14 < qyx> ok som bqstudio didn't help me much
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2021-02-11T00:50:04 < mawk> Steffanx: do you know nkon.nl?
2021-02-11T00:50:09 < mawk> do you like their batteries?
2021-02-11T00:50:23 < mawk> they have refurbished 18650s that are cheap 
2021-02-11T00:50:32 < Steffanx> Karlp knows them
2021-02-11T00:50:50 < Steffanx> I know a lot of people know them
2021-02-11T00:50:59 < Steffanx> I only know them by name... 
2021-02-11T00:51:52 < mawk> ah
2021-02-11T00:51:55 < mawk> too late I already bought anyway
2021-02-11T00:52:37 < qyx> I bought some 18650 here too
2021-02-11T00:52:42 < qyx> new ones though
2021-02-11T00:52:48 < englishman> reburbished batteries...?
2021-02-11T00:52:52 < mawk> yes englishman 
2021-02-11T00:53:00 < mawk> rejections from failed spot soldering
2021-02-11T00:53:05 < mawk> they say they aren't used
2021-02-11T00:53:12 < Steffanx> Oh apparently I ordered there some batteries in 2012. But thats a life time ago 
2021-02-11T00:53:23 < mawk> 8× LG INR18650-MJ1 3500mAh - 10A
2021-02-11T00:53:36 < englishman> good battery
2021-02-11T00:53:39 < englishman> those mj1
2021-02-11T00:53:47 < mawk> it's for my electronic cigarette
2021-02-11T00:53:53 < mawk> maybe 10A isn't enough
2021-02-11T00:53:54 < englishman> oh
2021-02-11T00:53:55 < mawk> I'll see
2021-02-11T00:53:57 < qyx> I bought M36 or which
2021-02-11T00:53:57 < englishman> i can't condone vaping
2021-02-11T00:54:05 < mawk> why
2021-02-11T00:54:05 < Steffanx> Vappppeerrr alert
2021-02-11T00:54:08 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T00:54:17 < mawk> I think 30A would be better
2021-02-11T00:54:44 < qyx> yeah 100 W blasting into your eyes
2021-02-11T00:54:47 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T00:54:56 < mawk> also, no protection circuit
2021-02-11T00:54:58 < mawk> of course
2021-02-11T00:55:08 < mawk> but don't worry I buy high quality chinese electronic cigarettes
2021-02-11T00:55:11 < mawk> that's the protection circuit
2021-02-11T00:56:53 < mawk> my current batteries are 40A 3100mAh from some chinese noname company
2021-02-11T00:56:59 < mawk> but I measured them and it's 2600mAh top
2021-02-11T00:57:03 < mawk> can't trust the chinese
2021-02-11T00:57:10 < mawk> but peak discharge current is more important than capacity
2021-02-11T00:57:45 < qyx> I would say those 10 A cells will give you 40 A easily
2021-02-11T00:58:12 < qyx> the manufacturer usually call that overcurrent
2021-02-11T00:58:16 < qyx> but don't bother
2021-02-11T00:58:22 < qyx> it is just a matter of naming
2021-02-11T00:58:50 < mawk> ah 
2021-02-11T00:58:52 < mawk> good then
2021-02-11T00:58:59 < mawk> I need 60W
2021-02-11T00:59:23 < qyx> they will blow if they are not happy with the short circuit thing
2021-02-11T00:59:29 < qyx> youll see
2021-02-11T00:59:30 < mawk> not good
2021-02-11T00:59:32 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T00:59:38 < mawk> maybe "no protection circuit" was a bad idea
2021-02-11T01:00:16 < mawk> but I think there's a battery T° monitor in the ecig
2021-02-11T01:00:21 < mawk> and it cuts power if it's too hot
2021-02-11T01:00:31 < englishman> sounds safe
2021-02-11T01:00:34 < mawk> yes
2021-02-11T01:00:36 < mawk> 100%
2021-02-11T01:00:45 < mawk> it's not stm32, usually
2021-02-11T01:00:51 < mawk> usually it's nxp
2021-02-11T01:00:53 < englishman> 100% safe, 80% of the time
2021-02-11T01:01:02 < mawk> so I get 4 shots before blowing up?
2021-02-11T01:01:22 < mawk> I put a custom firmware on my ecig also
2021-02-11T01:01:24 < mawk> safety++
2021-02-11T01:01:37 < englishman> i thought vapists were all temp controlled n stuff since ~7y
2021-02-11T01:01:42 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-11T01:01:46 < mawk> but I'm too lazy to buy temp control
2021-02-11T01:01:59 < mawk> I was doing it before, with stainles steel SS316L wire
2021-02-11T01:02:04 < englishman> can't you just inject the nicotine
2021-02-11T01:02:05 < mawk> and before that with nickel wire
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2021-02-11T01:03:55 < qyx> englishman: I would not mention that, he is already on the way
2021-02-11T01:03:59 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T01:04:06 < mawk> actually I'm not into needles
2021-02-11T01:04:09 < mawk> I don't like it
2021-02-11T01:04:19 < mawk> I can't say it's a phobia, but when a nurse draws some blood I'm not feeling right
2021-02-11T01:04:32 < englishman> can't you find a more productive hobby like baking or knitting
2021-02-11T01:04:44 < englishman> baking is much better than drugs
2021-02-11T01:04:47 < mawk> nicotine is very productive
2021-02-11T01:04:55 < mawk> it helps me be a productive member of society
2021-02-11T01:04:59 < mawk> and pay Steffanx's retirement fund
2021-02-11T01:05:45 < Steffanx> Not really..
2021-02-11T01:06:46 < Steffanx> You and me will never retire... unless its by dying 
2021-02-11T01:07:14 < Steffanx> Or because you decide to stop working, but no finding for you and me
2021-02-11T01:07:14 < englishman> maybe you should switch to msp430
2021-02-11T01:07:45 < Steffanx> Funding *
2021-02-11T01:07:59 < Steffanx> Yeah, instant death for sure...
2021-02-11T01:08:49 < qyx> that bq stuff is awful
2021-02-11T01:09:03 < qyx> telling it to read 8 bytes, nope, 32 bytes here you go
2021-02-11T01:09:19 < qyx> k, then read 8 bytes from 0x4008 instead of 0x4000
2021-02-11T01:09:26 < qyx> nope, 24 bytes
2021-02-11T01:09:30 < qyx> you have.
2021-02-11T01:09:42 < qyx> fuk, read 32 then
2021-02-11T01:09:48 < qyx> oh no, still 24 bytes
2021-02-11T01:10:05 < qyx> garbage
2021-02-11T01:10:44 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T01:10:59 < mawk> Steffanx: better plan our death then right?
2021-02-11T01:11:08 < mawk> I should stock up on heroin for an apoteose death
2021-02-11T01:11:11 < mawk> apotheose
2021-02-11T01:14:29 < mawk> or do you actually intend to accept this situation
2021-02-11T01:15:34 < Steffanx> Nah, Drion will be hot then
2021-02-11T01:15:46 < Steffanx> Zhe pill of Drion 
2021-02-11T01:16:46 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T01:18:28 < mawk> https://sci-hub.do/https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.328.7449.1204
2021-02-11T01:18:31 < mawk> this
2021-02-11T01:18:54 < mawk> wait why gateway timeout
2021-02-11T01:19:40 < Steffanx> Works fine 
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2021-02-11T01:20:46 < mawk> send the pdf
2021-02-11T01:20:58 < mawk> I want to read mister drion
2021-02-11T01:26:02 < Steffanx> Just click a few times 
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2021-02-11T02:44:12 < mawk> chrome has proper pdf reader now
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2021-02-11T04:32:08 < jadew> Tesla stock about to pop?
2021-02-11T04:33:26 < kakium69> I googled TSLA once and now my phone tells me TSLA in notifications area
2021-02-11T04:33:46 < jadew> lol
2021-02-11T04:33:53 < kakium69> it's been sinking something like 1-5% a day for a week or so
2021-02-11T04:34:17 < jadew> it's fluctuating, kind of like struggling to stay at the current level
2021-02-11T04:34:23 < jadew> yesterday it dropped 5%
2021-02-11T04:34:58 < kakium69> michael burry shorted TSLA so it's pretty much yes
2021-02-11T04:35:28 < kakium69> it's about to land back to earth
2021-02-11T04:35:33 < jadew> if it crashes, I'll get some, but I don't think I'll hold it for more than a year
2021-02-11T04:35:59 < jadew> I expect other manufacturers to catch on and they could become irrelevant in 10 years time
2021-02-11T04:36:59 < kakium69> every car manuf has some cool ev now
2021-02-11T04:38:04 < kakium69> and serious EV platforms
2021-02-11T04:38:43 < kakium69> not just hey we need something let's bolt an electric motor in place of ICE and call it a day
2021-02-11T04:42:45 < jadew> and I think that when it crashes, it's going to take bitcoin with it
2021-02-11T04:43:39 < jadew> because the rise in bitcoin price was generated by tesla, so when tesla goes down, you'll see a sharp drop in BTC, which might spook enough people to trigger a free fall
2021-02-11T04:52:32 < jadew> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/neanderthal-genes-dna-brain-shape-head-skull-ancient-humans-study-a8682201.html
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2021-02-11T05:01:45 < kakium69> brainpoer
2021-02-11T05:01:48 < kakium69> power
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2021-02-11T06:14:03 < R2COM> so it seems that theoretically win10pro Hyper-V should be faster than VMWare isnt it
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2021-02-11T07:13:19 < jadew> R2COM, don't know if it's faster, but I've been using it for years and it works great
2021-02-11T07:14:02 < jadew> it also has this thing where you can run an application in the VM, but it's exposed to the host system as a regular program
2021-02-11T07:14:25 < jadew> don't know if VMWare has that
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2021-02-11T08:12:24 < R2COM> if im correct soft running in guest linux can access PCI directly throught it too yea?
2021-02-11T08:17:42 < jpa-> meh, threw away stray post-it note from the bathroom floor - turns out it was my son's official badge of "i'm the world leader"; i guess the status of our family now dropped significantly
2021-02-11T08:22:22 < jadew> did you get scolded?
2021-02-11T09:11:38 < R2COM> jadew i think what you said is due to the type1 nature of HyperV
2021-02-11T09:11:54 < R2COM> VMWare and Virtualbox are both Type 2
2021-02-11T09:12:07 < R2COM> VMware has package for type1 but it needs to run on bare metal server
2021-02-11T09:12:28 < R2COM> whereas win10 pro hyper V already kinda type1, and "win10" becomes one of the "guests"
2021-02-11T09:12:38 < R2COM> something like that i guyess
2021-02-11T09:13:07 < R2COM> so i was fucking around with linux install and notice occasional freeze... i feel its due to the nvme im using
2021-02-11T09:13:23 < R2COM> did a quick search and google is full of threads related to nvme+freeze+linux
2021-02-11T09:13:36 < R2COM> ran some tests with it here in win10 with native program, no issues
2021-02-11T09:14:04 < R2COM> so i was thinking if i want linux for some stuff, its maybe just worth it doing it under HyperV with image located on nvme drive
2021-02-11T09:14:17 < R2COM> no driver headache or hardware compatibility
2021-02-11T09:14:25 < R2COM> + HyperV can do snapshots too if im correct
2021-02-11T09:15:18 < jpa-> jadew: i haven't confessed yet
2021-02-11T09:15:33 < jpa-> it's still just "lost somewhere"
2021-02-11T09:21:09 < zyp> haha
2021-02-11T09:33:07 < jadew> nice jpa-
2021-02-11T09:35:18 < jadew> my son lost his bag of teeth and I suspect either his mom or his grandma threw vacuumed it and they don't want to confess
2021-02-11T09:36:03 < jadew> threw/vacuumed
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2021-02-11T10:00:47 < mawk> give him the money already jadew 
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2021-02-11T11:16:26 < mawk> BrainDamage: 
2021-02-11T11:16:29 < mawk> how did he die? http://www.mokumrecords.nl/uploads/images/newspaper-walter-one.jpg
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2021-02-11T11:30:45 < karlp> neat, new low cost stm32wb... especially designed for 2 layer boards.... bga129
2021-02-11T11:39:01 < zyp> wat
2021-02-11T11:39:43 < karlp> just got a mailout
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2021-02-11T12:18:07 < karlp> txs010x or lsf010x? lsf is multi vendor and cheaper, what do you get from the txs parts?
2021-02-11T12:20:09 < qyx> yeah I was spammed few days ago
2021-02-11T12:20:11 < karlp> oh, lots of extra external pulls on lsf series.
2021-02-11T12:20:16 < qyx> I thing they mentioned it on their FB earlier
2021-02-11T12:21:27 < qyx> *think
2021-02-11T12:22:03 < qyx> wait what, thats not the subgig one
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2021-02-11T12:58:45 < ville> howdy. looking to gather some useful tools to develop some hobby stm32 projects. someone mentioned a usb to ttl adapter could be useful and i should get one with "hardware flow control signals". not entirely sure what it means. on aliexpress i can see devices with 4, 5 or 6 pins if it has anything to do with pin count
2021-02-11T12:59:28 < zyp> ok
2021-02-11T12:59:45 < ville> so any clues as to what they might have meant what kind of device i should get?
2021-02-11T13:00:16 < PaulFertser> ville: no flow control signals are really necessary. But you should get some stlink, that's for sure, unless you already have an SWD debugger.
2021-02-11T13:00:46 < ville> i bought an stm32f103 and st-link v2 programmer
2021-02-11T13:01:20 < zyp> doesn't the cheap st-link clones also include a serial interface?
2021-02-11T13:01:46 < zyp> ah, apparently not
2021-02-11T13:01:48 < ville> at this point i wouldn't know. not quite that far yet
2021-02-11T13:02:32 < ville> i've got 4 lines going from the programmer to the board and can power it up, see it in stlink-gui and that's about it
2021-02-11T13:03:01 < zyp> for usb serial I'd suggest anything with a ft232h or a ft2232h
2021-02-11T13:03:09 < zyp> or ft4232h for that matter
2021-02-11T13:03:58 < ville> what's the significance of the pin counts for those devices roughly speaking?
2021-02-11T13:04:14 < zyp> not sure I understand the question
2021-02-11T13:05:48 < ville> i can see these "usb to ttl adapters" on aliexpress. some have 4, 5 or even 6 pins you can stick wires onto. presumably the extra wires provide some extra capabilities?
2021-02-11T13:06:04 < zyp> when you're only using it for plain serial, you're mainly gonna be using gnd/rx/tx, so three pins
2021-02-11T13:08:10 < karlp> cp210x devices are well regarded.
2021-02-11T13:08:23 < ville> ok, so that would be sufficient to be able to print something in my program running on the stm32 device and see its output on my development machine, right?
2021-02-11T13:08:25 < karlp> there's very few reasons to bother with the hardware flow control pins, but if you shop well, you can get them "for free"
2021-02-11T13:08:31 < PaulFertser> Provided all of your targets are 3.3 V. Some modern wifi routers are 1.8 V so if you're serious you should probably get a compatible USB UART.
2021-02-11T13:08:40 < zyp> the fourth pin is usually power out, the fifth/sixth pins are cts/rts for flow control
2021-02-11T13:09:01 < ville> pin labeled "dts" seems common on the ones i've seen so far
2021-02-11T13:09:46 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-232#Data_and_control_signals
2021-02-11T13:10:22 < ville> err "dtr"?
2021-02-11T13:11:00 < zyp> most of those are not very useful if you're not gonna talk to a classic modem :)
2021-02-11T13:11:00 < karlp> as someone who's just about to go buy new ones, maybe get ones that can do 1.8V as well, not just 3.3 and 5 :)
2021-02-11T13:11:30 < karlp> basically any of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33058730901.html
2021-02-11T13:11:31 < ville> karlp: oh they are introducing a new voltage level?
2021-02-11T13:11:39 < zyp> they who?
2021-02-11T13:12:00 < zyp> 1.8V IO have existed for ages
2021-02-11T13:12:12 < ville> don't mean anyone specific
2021-02-11T13:12:46 < karlp> but like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120687489.html? is more than enough for most uses...
2021-02-11T13:12:48 < ville> ok. haven't run into ny mentions of 1.8v in the whole few hours i've been looking at it! hah
2021-02-11T13:12:55 < karlp> I've not needed 1.8v like, ever, until today
2021-02-11T13:13:29 < ville> karlp: so i get all three of them in the last link then?
2021-02-11T13:13:40 < karlp> oh, if somoene suggested you needed modem signals, they might have been thinking of using it with arduino serial bootloader shits
2021-02-11T13:13:42 < zyp> nah, just one should be fine
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2021-02-11T13:15:14 < zyp> red one looks like the best to me
2021-02-11T13:15:31 < zyp> probably reflected by price :)
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2021-02-11T13:20:04 < zyp> karlp, done any rs485 on linux yet? how do you go about txen control?
2021-02-11T13:24:35 < c10ud> just flush the fd before twiddling the pin
2021-02-11T13:25:17 < zyp> no thanks
2021-02-11T13:27:57 < jadew> mawk, I tried to give him the money but he didn't like the deal the first time so he decided to keep all his teeth
2021-02-11T13:28:01 < englishman> those hardware control lines are used when flashing arduino/esp32 via bootloader to control boot select/reset lines
2021-02-11T13:28:05 < jpa-> TIOCSERSETRS485?
2021-02-11T13:28:09 < englishman> not super useful when using stm32
2021-02-11T13:28:12 < mawk> lol jadew 
2021-02-11T13:28:14 < jadew> in fact he was surprised/upset that the fairy took his tooth
2021-02-11T13:28:16 < mawk> double the price
2021-02-11T13:28:38 < jpa-> or whatever it was, apparently that specific one is deprecated
2021-02-11T13:33:18 < zyp> read through imx6ul RM, seems like it needs to be software controlled, looks like linux driver implements it
2021-02-11T13:33:30 < karlp> zyp: plan on using rts-gpios device tree,
2021-02-11T13:33:33 < zyp> found some patches floating around to add it, but looks like it might have been mainlined now
2021-02-11T13:33:53 < karlp> curret stuff uses an external ft230x, so didnt' need to care
2021-02-11T13:34:06 < karlp> old stuff I manually hacked the 8250 layer......
2021-02-11T13:34:34 < karlp> but I'm led to beleive that the rts-gpios stuff is well enogh supported now that you "just do it"
2021-02-11T13:35:20 < karlp> I have some test hardware for that here, but haven't _actually_ tested it yet....
2021-02-11T13:36:39 < zyp> I'm doing schematic review of an imx6ul board today and it has txen hooked to both cts and rts pins through 0R jumpers
2021-02-11T13:39:27 < zyp> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/17b8f2a3fdca29a9b296642fb3f6ad3c39ffc7d3 looks like it's been in mainline for ~6 years, not sure why there's other patches floating around
2021-02-11T13:41:56 < qyx> re 1V8: I failed a few times not checking if a particular device is ok with it
2021-02-11T13:42:22 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-11T13:42:29 < zyp> okay, this is also a thing: https://pyserial.readthedocs.io/en/latest/pyserial_api.html#rs485-support
2021-02-11T13:42:45 < zyp> maybe it'll just work then :)
2021-02-11T13:45:06 < zyp> if I'm understanding this right, txen is called rts everywhere in the linux apis, but the imx hardware will actually use cts for it
2021-02-11T13:45:28 < zyp> I think I'll advise to just keep the 0Rs :)
2021-02-11T13:58:24 < qyx> haha
2021-02-11T13:59:12 < jpa-> "when in doubt, add a jumper"
2021-02-11T14:00:44 < qyx> 4 policemen in munchen beaten by a 16y teenager, lold irl
2021-02-11T14:01:05 < mawk> nice
2021-02-11T14:04:29 < qyx> https://www.focus.de/regional/muenchen/muenchen-16-jaehriger-pruegelt-bei-masken-kontrolle-polizisten-ins-krankenhaus_id_12965917.html
2021-02-11T14:04:46 < qyx> much surprised
2021-02-11T14:05:35 < mawk> ah it was 2 teenagers
2021-02-11T14:06:01 < mawk> but the other one fled
2021-02-11T14:15:40 < zyp> another fun point is how this design has an «ETH2_TX_CLK»
2021-02-11T14:15:48 < zyp> and it's using RMII :)
2021-02-11T14:18:06 < zyp> dug though that and concluded MII_TX_CLK and RMII_REF_CLK can be mapped to the same pin, and somehow the people who designed the SoM picked the TX_CLK name despite only providing the RMII pins
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2021-02-11T14:50:39 < mawk> a 45 turns vinyl recorded in 33 will sound slower, right?
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2021-02-11T15:02:21 < skz81> mawk, if "recorded in 33" means you setup the turntable to 33rpm, yup, i beleive you're right. It will play slower, actually.
2021-02-11T15:02:32 < mawk> ah thanks
2021-02-11T15:02:44 < mawk> so a 45 turns with higher pitch than usual means someone did it on purpose
2021-02-11T15:04:05 < skz81> mawk, my dad had a cariable speed tape recorder, probably to address such things, or may be improving quality thing but that was about turntables pitch.
2021-02-11T15:04:56 < mawk> I see yeah
2021-02-11T15:04:57 < skz81> Maybe he has such recorder, played the 45 normally but slowed the tape. Or same things but digitally.
2021-02-11T15:05:04 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-11T15:05:17 < mawk> it wouldn't surprize me they pitched up the track to gain space on the album
2021-02-11T15:05:24 < mawk> but it's criminal to do that to music
2021-02-11T15:05:32 < mawk> not for techno though
2021-02-11T15:05:49 < mouseghost> omg guyz vinyl is so cool!!!!!
2021-02-11T15:05:56 < mouseghost> ive seen an instagram post about vinyl cds!!!!
2021-02-11T15:06:01 < mouseghost> omg can you believe in guyz!!!!
2021-02-11T15:06:07 < mawk> lol
2021-02-11T15:06:23 < mawk> I prefer cd quality
2021-02-11T15:06:26 < skz81> Lol, was about to say, you can also pitch up/down tracks with DJ stuff
2021-02-11T15:06:33 < mawk> but the guy died before anyone could get the master records
2021-02-11T15:06:43 < mouseghost> mawk, cd is meh
2021-02-11T15:07:01 < mouseghost> 44.1kHz 
2021-02-11T15:07:16 < mawk> your ears don't go above 22.05kHz
2021-02-11T15:07:22 < mawk> https://youtu.be/IePQG5CAuGw
2021-02-11T15:07:26 < mouseghost> its a sampling rate you dummy
2021-02-11T15:07:29 < skz81> mawk, wath's the issue actually. You have a physical record that even played @ 45 rpm is still pitched up ? 
2021-02-11T15:07:42 < mouseghost> 45 rpm will pitch it up more
2021-02-11T15:07:49 < mawk> skz81 there's a music on youtube evidently ripped from vinyls, but two versions are floating around
2021-02-11T15:07:52 < mouseghost> you would need to go slower to decrease the pitch
2021-02-11T15:07:53 < skz81> mawk, mine don't go well over 16-18KHz
2021-02-11T15:07:55 < mawk> one with high pitch
2021-02-11T15:08:02 < mawk> and I don't know which one is the true one
2021-02-11T15:08:29 < mouseghost> although you might not hear above 22kHz, its not a sampling rate
2021-02-11T15:08:33 < mouseghost> but like, the actual sound waves...
2021-02-11T15:08:40 < mouseghost> like a sinewave at 22kHz 
2021-02-11T15:08:56 < mawk> the linked I just gave it the slow version, and this is fast: https://youtu.be/tmOLodPgPB4
2021-02-11T15:08:56 < mouseghost> and sampling such a sinewave with 22kHz sampling rate...
2021-02-11T15:09:14 < mouseghost> mawk, that sped up one soundns weird
2021-02-11T15:09:18 < mawk> 44.1kHz is the sampling rate
2021-02-11T15:09:39 < mouseghost> yes
2021-02-11T15:09:43 < mawk> which reconstructs correctly up to 22.05 kHz
2021-02-11T15:10:16 < karlp> but muh sound stage!
2021-02-11T15:10:30 < mouseghost> correctly as in?
2021-02-11T15:10:39 < mawk> as in not incorrectly
2021-02-11T15:10:40 < mouseghost> doesnt it leave like 2 samples per cycle?
2021-02-11T15:10:41 < mawk> obviously
2021-02-11T15:10:44 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-11T15:10:45 < mawk> so what
2021-02-11T15:10:55 < mouseghost> so i dont like squarewaves
2021-02-11T15:10:55 < karlp> how do you replace this jumper with a fet to just disconnect 1.8V/VDD_EXT here? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sti6h.png  I'm failing with failstad and basic analllol
2021-02-11T15:11:26 < karlp> I guess the 1.8V is a pain for this with threshold voltges?
2021-02-11T15:11:28 < mouseghost> anallol sounds like some kind of medication one puts in the ass
2021-02-11T15:11:29 < mawk> you can reconstruct the original signal from it mouseghost 
2021-02-11T15:11:40 < mouseghost> ah yeah granted i forgot about that
2021-02-11T15:11:52 < mouseghost> the main reason we cant have rs232 over audio 
2021-02-11T15:11:59 < mouseghost> or at least that easily
2021-02-11T15:12:07 < mouseghost> usart*
2021-02-11T15:12:12 < mawk> fet won't work karlp 
2021-02-11T15:12:15 < mawk> just one I mean
2021-02-11T15:12:25 < mawk> it needs to be in push pull configuration with a pair of fets
2021-02-11T15:12:37 < karlp> push/pull to get open/high?
2021-02-11T15:12:50 < karlp> wnat floating/1.8 ?
2021-02-11T15:13:05 < zyp> karlp, what's this supposed to do?
2021-02-11T15:13:22 < mawk> push pull isn't the right term
2021-02-11T15:13:37 < karlp> I'd like to replace the manual external jumper with gpio control.
2021-02-11T15:13:52 < zyp> what's the gpio voltage?
2021-02-11T15:14:02 < karlp> so gpio low, (or high, dont really mind polarity) disconnected, gpio high, 1.8v connected
2021-02-11T15:14:05 < karlp> 3.3v gpios
2021-02-11T15:14:16 < karlp> I guess Vgs is a problem..
2021-02-11T15:14:38 < mawk> ah yes ok
2021-02-11T15:14:39 < zyp> get a nfet with Vgs threshold below 1.5V and just wire drain to vdd_ext and source to usb_boot
2021-02-11T15:14:47 < zyp> then drive gate with 3.3V or 0V
2021-02-11T15:14:50 < mawk> why a nfet?
2021-02-11T15:15:14 < zyp> why not?
2021-02-11T15:15:36 < mawk> ah yes with 3.3 gpio
2021-02-11T15:16:04 < zyp> generally you use a pfet when you don't have a control voltage higher than where you connect source
2021-02-11T15:16:12 < zyp> no reason to do that here
2021-02-11T15:17:51 < mawk> so you want low enough Vgs but low enough Rdson
2021-02-11T15:18:00 < mawk> is it common
2021-02-11T15:19:02 < zyp> I don't think low Rdson is important, doesn't look like something that's gonna carry significant current
2021-02-11T15:19:37 < mawk> ah yes it's named usb boot
2021-02-11T15:19:48 < mawk> that's an input maybe
2021-02-11T15:20:09 < karlp> falstad doesn't like it without a pulldown, I presume there'sprobably a pulldown internally? https://tinyurl.com/yy8dgznl
2021-02-11T15:20:37 < mawk> without a pulldown then gate is floating 
2021-02-11T15:20:44 < mawk> and finger touch will enable it
2021-02-11T15:20:56 < zyp> don't need a pulldown if you're driving it with a push-pull gpio
2021-02-11T15:21:16 < mawk> if the mcu starts before whatever this is controlling
2021-02-11T15:21:20 < karlp> the pulldown was on the test poitn side.
2021-02-11T15:21:28 < zyp> ah, well, sure
2021-02-11T15:21:42 < karlp> ahh, no, I had an spst switch, not pushpull
2021-02-11T15:21:44 < zyp> but that should already be taken care off since you're switching between 1.8/floating
2021-02-11T15:22:15 < zyp> I mean, you could do this even simpler and ditch the floating, and just drive the signal as a normal 1.8V signal
2021-02-11T15:24:47 < karlp> well, docs aren't clear, but re-re-reading them, yeah; i think I can just pull it low explicitly.
2021-02-11T15:26:59 < mawk> to make sim work, add a pulldown
2021-02-11T15:27:09 < karlp> thats' what I did.
2021-02-11T15:27:14 < mawk> ah right
2021-02-11T15:28:25 < mawk> it has an internal pulldown already presumably
2021-02-11T15:28:35 < mawk> so pulling it low explicitly should be fine
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2021-02-11T18:06:04 < BrainDamage> mawk: gallbladder infection that worsened into organ puncture and abdominal infection
2021-02-11T18:07:19 < kakium69> whaa
2021-02-11T18:08:31 < BrainDamage> mouseghost: you get a squarewave with 2 samples if your filter is a square in time, wich is a sinc in frequency, nyquist theorem specifies you need a square in frequency, therefore sinc in time, and after you get a perfect sine
2021-02-11T18:08:58 < BrainDamage> ofc square in frequency is not realizable, but you can get to a pretty close approximation
2021-02-11T18:09:30 < mouseghost> yeah i have forgotten about that special thingy
2021-02-11T18:10:15 < kakium69> BrainDamage: safu
2021-02-11T18:11:27 < mawk> thanks BrainDamage 
2021-02-11T18:11:43 < BrainDamage> mouseghost: where you discard information is amplitude quantization
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2021-02-11T18:12:11 < BrainDamage> but cds are sampled with 120dB SNR, which is better than ... all ears
2021-02-11T18:12:22 < Steffanx> Ohno, did you learn stvn talk, kakium69 
2021-02-11T18:12:32 < mawk> safu Steffanx 
2021-02-11T18:12:41 < Steffanx> Yes.
2021-02-11T18:12:43 < BrainDamage> I don't know what safu is
2021-02-11T18:12:47 < Steffanx> Sounds all fucked up
2021-02-11T18:12:56 < kakium69> or situation all fucked up
2021-02-11T18:13:03 < Steffanx> Lies.
2021-02-11T18:13:08 < BrainDamage> that'd be snafu
2021-02-11T18:13:15 < BrainDamage> situation normal, all fucked up
2021-02-11T18:13:27 < BrainDamage> military termm
2021-02-11T18:13:45 < kakium69> you have abdomal infection?
2021-02-11T18:14:17 < BrainDamage> no, the person that died in mawk's article, and he asked me to translate
2021-02-11T18:15:48 < mawk> walter one
2021-02-11T18:15:52 < mawk> late techno producer
2021-02-11T18:16:56 < BrainDamage> abdominal infection is life threatening, I wouln't be on irc, or even be able to type
2021-02-11T18:18:21 < mouseghost> fubar
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2021-02-11T20:02:15 < antto> mouseghost, having just 2 samples to represent a waveform doesn't mean it's gonna be a square wave bruh
2021-02-11T20:11:28 < Steffanx> what if you just assume your waveform is a squarewave?
2021-02-11T20:12:22 < BrainDamage> then the bandwith to represent it is infinite
2021-02-11T20:12:45 < BrainDamage> or at least a good approximation wouln''t stop at the fundamental
2021-02-11T20:19:46 < antto> Steffanx, you can't have a square wave with 2 samples
2021-02-11T20:20:26 < antto> you can't have any overtones there
2021-02-11T20:20:30 < qyx> if you have a square scope, your waveform is square
2021-02-11T20:20:59 < antto> sure, if you have a rainbow pony, you could say the world is rainbows
2021-02-11T20:21:22 < antto> if you sniff the "right" white-ish powder, everything could seem nicer
2021-02-11T20:21:31 < antto> but that's not how DSP wurkz
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2021-02-11T20:55:26 < qyx> new pelis arrived https://bin.jvnv.net/file/pGTU2
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2021-02-11T21:31:51 < mouseghost> qyx, whats that
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2021-02-11T22:00:26 < BrainDamage> colour looks appropriate for a geiger counter
2021-02-11T22:00:47 -!- kakium69 [b05d21c0@176-93-33-192.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
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2021-02-11T22:48:53 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z_ESg4U-4g musics
2021-02-11T22:50:05 < kakium69> because everyone loves cheesy synths
2021-02-11T22:51:07 < Steffanx> and because i only watched airwolf because of the intro, kakium69 
2021-02-11T22:51:26 < kakium69> I never watched airwolf
2021-02-11T22:51:49 < kakium69> I learned it in youtube-school
2021-02-11T22:52:08 < Steffanx> youre a fake older millenial
2021-02-11T22:52:24 < kakium69> what month you were born in btw?
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2021-02-11T22:52:43 < kakium69> let's find out who is the papa
2021-02-11T22:56:52 < Steffanx> ok dad
2021-02-11T22:57:06 < kakium69> steff is still the papa
2021-02-11T22:57:55 < kakium69> I watched some puppet thing though were every character had their own air ship thing and they went after bad guys
2021-02-11T22:58:24 < kakium69> and every ship had some special thing
2021-02-11T22:58:27 < kakium69> or something
2021-02-11T23:00:29 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-02-11T23:01:06 < Steffanx> teletubbies?
2021-02-11T23:01:14 < kakium69> :o
2021-02-11T23:04:32 < kakium69> Thunderbirds
2021-02-11T23:04:49 < kakium69> wow it's brittish not usa
2021-02-11T23:05:36 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLiH4xrCITI
2021-02-11T23:05:38 < Steffanx> i hated that, i was always lookign for the wires.
2021-02-11T23:07:23 < kakium69> oh those are not puppets but marionettes rather
2021-02-11T23:08:46 < Steffanx> You didnt watch The Wonderful Adventures of Nils kakium69 ?
2021-02-11T23:10:25 < Steffanx> The World of David the Gnome ? 
2021-02-11T23:10:29 < kakium69> not that much but I know it
2021-02-11T23:10:39 < kakium69> yes gnome thing yes
2021-02-11T23:10:54 < Steffanx> Sinbad the Sailor?
2021-02-11T23:11:10 < Steffanx> Popeye?
2021-02-11T23:11:35 < kakium69> no, yes
2021-02-11T23:12:21 < Steffanx> I bet you finnishers were still very finlander oriented back then
2021-02-11T23:12:36 < Steffanx> So mainly tv series about sauna parties
2021-02-11T23:13:26 < kakium69> no I think it was pretty much aligned with BBC
2021-02-11T23:13:33 < zyp> sup?
2021-02-11T23:14:01 < Steffanx> Pikku Kakkonen must be your favourite kakium69 
2021-02-11T23:14:30 < Steffanx> and Elf Toljander
2021-02-11T23:14:36 < Steffanx> not much zyp . there?
2021-02-11T23:14:43 < kakium69> Steffanx: nope
2021-02-11T23:17:03 < Steffanx> hm
2021-02-11T23:18:44 < zyp> wondering what the easiest way to generate some html with qr codes is
2021-02-11T23:20:11 < kakium69> client side graphics?
2021-02-11T23:21:03 < zyp> I'm just gonna generate a html page with some labels that I can feed to my label printer
2021-02-11T23:23:55 < kakium69> https://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/Generating-QR-Codes-in-Linux
2021-02-11T23:24:32 < zyp> I wanna automate this though
2021-02-11T23:25:13 < kakium69> backend calls that thing and maybe imagemagick to resize and shit?
2021-02-11T23:25:21 < zyp> looking at python-qrcode now, I think I can just use that to generate a svg that I'll stick right into a html template
2021-02-11T23:25:37 < kakium69> sounds better
2021-02-11T23:26:22 < zyp> I could do a javascript solution except then I'd have to do javascript
2021-02-11T23:27:00 < kakium69> quick googlin didn't give any easy solutions for js
2021-02-11T23:27:09 < zyp> I mean, if I were already doing angular or something there's probably a readymade lib for it
2021-02-11T23:27:28 < kakium69> js would be the ultimate solution
2021-02-11T23:27:31 < zyp> like this: https://www.npmjs.com/package/angularx-qrcode
2021-02-11T23:28:13 < zyp> I mean, that looks pretty great: <qrcode [qrdata]="foo"> and done
2021-02-11T23:28:15 < kakium69> I don't understand any of that shiet
2021-02-11T23:28:28 < kakium69> yes that would be the ideal solution
2021-02-11T23:28:56 < kakium69> just pass data let client side do the work
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2021-02-11T23:29:03 < zyp> I've used angular before, it's pretty nice to work with once the boilerplate is in place, just feels super overkill for this
2021-02-11T23:29:22 < kakium69> why hate js?
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2021-02-11T23:29:33 < zyp> and I haven't touched in a couple of years, so everything is probably changed again
2021-02-11T23:29:36 < kakium69> is jquery still a thing?
2021-02-11T23:29:58 < zyp> dunno, I think it was considered outdated last I looked at javascript, which was years ago
2021-02-11T23:32:57 < kakium69> in web world there is outdated as in not the newest craze and just outdated
2021-02-11T23:33:52 < Steffanx> Doesnt everyone still use  jquery?
2021-02-11T23:41:39 < kakium69> why not
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2021-02-11T23:58:58 < zyp> okay, I just made a jinja filter out of it: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/UIPi8
2021-02-11T23:59:19 < qyx> zyp: and the commanad line qr generator fed with a seq 1 500 and some sed?
2021-02-11T23:59:30 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/jPH8E.png
2021-02-11T23:59:47 < zyp> sounds annoying :)
2021-02-11T23:59:54 < zyp> anyway, this works
--- Day changed Fri Feb 12 2021
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2021-02-12T00:17:42 < qyx> fb spam
2021-02-12T00:17:45 < qyx> The new #STM32G491 and #STM32G4A1 offer more memory..
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2021-02-12T01:00:43 < qyx> I had to disassemble the whole AC motor assembly in this ventilation unit to the last screw to be actually able to remove the damaged fan
2021-02-12T01:08:18 < aandrew> gotta love that kind of assembly
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2021-02-12T01:20:13 < Mangy_Dog> quick question before bed...
2021-02-12T01:20:27 < Mangy_Dog> If i created 2 functions that were pretty much or totally identical....
2021-02-12T01:20:37 < Mangy_Dog> But say one is local to one header and the other to another header
2021-02-12T01:20:45 < Mangy_Dog> will the compiler optimise that function?
2021-02-12T01:20:53 < Mangy_Dog> or is it compiled verbatim?
2021-02-12T01:21:10 < Mangy_Dog> and i guess at -O0
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2021-02-12T01:34:15 < aandrew> might need link time optimization for that kind of thing
2021-02-12T01:34:37 < aandrew> I mean honestly though, why not just look at the lst or map file
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2021-02-12T01:52:50 < Mangy_Dog> well because i didnt know i could do that :p but it really was just a hypothetical question
2021-02-12T01:53:04 < Mangy_Dog> i was wondering on something a few days ago and just remembered to ask
2021-02-12T01:53:54 < Mangy_Dog> anyway thanks and good night :D
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2021-02-12T04:44:51 < emeb_mac> dumb question: say I've got one of these newer cheap "value line" STM32 with limited on-chip flash, but I want to load some huge chunks of data into QSPI flash. The data is not going to change, so it can be loaded at mfg time. What's the best way to do a one-time programming @ mfg time, assuming I've just got an SWD connection?
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2021-02-12T04:49:01 < englishman> dediprog programmer and a chip clip?
2021-02-12T04:50:08 < englishman> you can write a bunch of stuff to have a computer pass through stuff via swd
2021-02-12T04:50:13 < englishman> or just write to the flash
2021-02-12T04:50:41 < englishman> depending on what flash you buy, you can even get them preprogrammed for a small fee
2021-02-12T04:51:26 < emeb_mac> sure would be nice if st-link had a way to redirect prog data to external flash
2021-02-12T04:53:08 < emeb_mac> most SWD programming uses little stubs running in RAM and directing data to on-chip flash. wouldn't be too far out of line to make it go to SPI port instead. But #effort
2021-02-12T04:53:26 < qyx> emeb_mac: you can write spi/qspi flas over swd using openocd or jlink
2021-02-12T04:53:45 < emeb_mac> qyx: ORLY? tell me more!
2021-02-12T04:54:56 < qyx> on a tablet atm but I did that at $work with some nxp cortex M (spi flash) and with openmocd on stm32f7 and a qspi flash
2021-02-12T04:55:56 < emeb_mac> qyx: cool. I suppose that's documented in oocd manual?
2021-02-12T04:57:06 < qyx> uh idk
2021-02-12T04:57:09 < qyx> https://forums.pimoroni.com/t/accessing-external-flash-from-openocd/12558
2021-02-12T04:57:27 < qyx> it was not tha painful as he says
2021-02-12T04:57:44 < qyx> in jlink it was clicky clicky try, nop, clicky clicky, done
2021-02-12T04:57:59 < emeb_mac> heh. cool. thx.
2021-02-12T04:58:24 < emeb_mac> found that thread too.
2021-02-12T05:00:40 < qyx> writing qspi was considerably easier than persuading uboot's SPL to correctly map the qspi and run the main part of uboot as XIP
2021-02-12T05:03:31 < englishman> i still think that paying 12c/chip to buy preflashed images is better than autisming for days/weeks over some opensores software that might exist and might even work for five minutes
2021-02-12T05:06:28 < emeb_mac> englishman: heh, plus I wouldn't be the one doing the programming - would be my client who has trouble with things more complex than ST-Link Util on Win
2021-02-12T05:18:12 < Ultrasauce> qspi can be memory mapped cant it?
2021-02-12T05:18:41 < Ultrasauce> so it should be pretty trivial to do via the debugger
2021-02-12T05:20:50 < Ultrasauce> doesnt even need an on-mcu program to write it, just a function to enable it and then program directly
2021-02-12T05:26:47 < emeb_mac> Ultrasauce: can't program (write) qspi/octospi in memmap mode.
2021-02-12T05:27:01 < emeb_mac> memmap only works for read
2021-02-12T05:27:08 < Ultrasauce> womp
2021-02-12T05:27:16 < Ultrasauce> guess that makes sense
2021-02-12T05:30:03 < emeb_mac> just checked my install of oocd (built last mo) - appears that the stmqspi patch is in there by default now. should give it a try sometime.
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2021-02-12T05:49:13 < emeb_mac> ugh - looking at the target file that's needed for qspi. seems you need to use memwrite cmds to init the qspi periph
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2021-02-12T07:08:46 < emeb_mac> hmm... from the STM32CubeProg page: "Programs, erases and verifies external memories, with examples of external Flash loaders to help users to develop loaders for specific external memories"
2021-02-12T07:53:37 < PaulFertser> emeb_mac: for all typical flash programming ways the reset-init handler is executed and should do the right job, so essentially programming external qspi should work the same from end user PoV.
2021-02-12T07:55:00 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: Hmm... not sure I understand what you're saying.
2021-02-12T07:55:43 < PaulFertser> emeb_mac: that target file present upstream has all the necessary commands to prepare the flash in reset-init handler so whether you use "load" from gdb or "program" Tcl helper they would get executed automatically.
2021-02-12T07:55:45 < jpa-> emeb_mac: that internal flash programming is programmed through a stub also, so as long as the programming software has the right stub, it will look like normal flashing
2021-02-12T07:57:14 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: so oocd needs special target files written for the specific hardware setup (which port, what the PN of the external mem, etc)
2021-02-12T07:57:39 < PaulFertser> emeb_mac: I think it'll autodetect the external flash.
2021-02-12T07:58:36 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: that's cool. is this documented? The only thing I've seen so far is that pimoroni thread that qyx mentioned
2021-02-12T08:00:02 < PaulFertser> emeb_mac: I'm not sure what additional documentation is required. You just source the target config as usual, after setting "set QUADSPI 1" and that should be it.
2021-02-12T08:00:27 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: Thanks - sounds super simple.
2021-02-12T08:00:29 < PaulFertser> Or OCTOSPI1 1
2021-02-12T08:00:37 < PaulFertser> Depends on what interface you use.
2021-02-12T08:00:43 < emeb_mac> of course
2021-02-12T08:02:15 < emeb_mac> things must have been streamlined since the pimoroni thread - the target script there included all kinds of register poking w/ mwm cmds
2021-02-12T08:02:17 < PaulFertser> emeb_mac: hm, I guess I'm wrong, I see board files doing much more than that, sorry. And I've now read the documentation in the user manual and it says board specific configuration is to be performed.
2021-02-12T08:02:40 < PaulFertser> E.g. board/stm32f746g-disco.cfg
2021-02-12T08:02:49 < PaulFertser> Sorry, wasn't following closely.
2021-02-12T08:02:55 < PaulFertser> Guess it's just the way it is.
2021-02-12T08:03:04 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: ah ok - I'll look into the board files for details.
2021-02-12T08:03:50 < PaulFertser> So not nearly simple but I guess that's how this hardware works :(
2021-02-12T08:04:08 < PaulFertser> If there was a better way the folks from ST would implement that.
2021-02-12T08:04:26 < emeb_mac> PaulFertser: no problem - can't do it all automatically.
2021-02-12T08:04:46 < emeb_mac> and yeah - the ST approach is also rather involved.
2021-02-12T08:05:05 < emeb_mac> since every HW config needs a special external loader written
2021-02-12T08:05:35 < PaulFertser> OpenOCD gets support directly from ST now.
2021-02-12T08:06:35 < PaulFertser> Luckily, QSPI is implemented without the need of additional external loaders.
2021-02-12T08:25:55 < jpa-> that's cool
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2021-02-12T10:35:12 < mawk> because of talking to russian girl I'm losing my english
2021-02-12T10:35:30 < mawk> she misses pronouns and conjunctions half the time
2021-02-12T10:35:56 < mawk> literal knowledge transfer, her english improves and mine degrades
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2021-02-12T10:56:33 < Steffanx> Mawk, both of you should learn dutch... then you can be equally bad
2021-02-12T10:56:46 < mawk> lol
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2021-02-12T11:55:10 < qyx> any ##stm32 recommended SD over SPI lib?
2021-02-12T12:04:48 < jpa-> the stub provided with elm-chan fatfs works fine
2021-02-12T12:08:21 < mouseghost> qyx, ive written my own one lol
2021-02-12T12:08:26 < mouseghost> tho for atmega
2021-02-12T12:41:16 < qyx> jpa-: me dumb, cannot find those
2021-02-12T12:42:28 < qyx> oh found them now
2021-02-12T12:42:43 < qyx> they even have a 0-clause BSD license
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2021-02-12T14:22:56 < qyx> fatfs full rage mode
2021-02-12T14:23:16 < qyx> BYTE *buff, UINT btr
2021-02-12T14:23:21 < qyx> lets guess whats that
2021-02-12T14:24:04 < qyx> read has buffer+len, write silently assumes 512 B length
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2021-02-12T14:33:08 < qyx> also
2021-02-12T14:33:08 < qyx> 		rcvr_mmc(d, 2);			/* Xmit dummy CRC (0xFF,0xFF) */
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2021-02-12T14:44:18 < karlp> meh, just spent easily an hour looking at magjack footprints.
2021-02-12T14:44:26 < karlp> lets write that down properly so we never have todo it again...
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2021-02-12T14:47:59 < karlp> also gxti's pulse part _isn't_ compatible with the hr911105
2021-02-12T14:48:21 < qyx> hm, I gave up on using magjacks
2021-02-12T14:48:42 < qyx> ethernet transformrs with standard footprint are available china-wide
2021-02-12T14:49:01 < qyx> and RJHSE-* parts are compatible with china RJ45 sockets
2021-02-12T14:49:05 < qyx> so I am using those two
2021-02-12T14:49:21 < karlp> I'm space constrained
2021-02-12T14:49:38 < qyx> I feel the same sometimes
2021-02-12T14:49:55 < karlp> rjhse are magjacks aren't they?
2021-02-12T14:51:14 < qyx> are they?
2021-02-12T14:51:40 < karlp> no, nvm. misreading thigns
2021-02-12T14:52:31 < karlp> I'm goign to delete gxti's pulse suggestion.
2021-02-12T14:52:45 < karlp> it's _not_ compatible with hr911105, so it's misleading int he zypsnips...
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2021-02-12T16:29:02 < ggonzalez> Does anyone by anychance worked with the  STM32MP1 series?
2021-02-12T16:30:26 < mawk> thorn mayb
2021-02-12T16:30:31 < mawk> but he's not here for now
2021-02-12T16:30:38 < mawk> are you german qyx ?
2021-02-12T16:32:06 < ggonzalez> thx mawk
2021-02-12T16:32:29 < mawk> ggonzalez: you can find him on telegram maybe, or you can wait
2021-02-12T16:32:44 < mawk> he's here tonight probably
2021-02-12T16:34:13 < ggonzalez> I can wait, there is no rush
2021-02-12T16:34:16 < ggonzalez> thank you : )
2021-02-12T16:38:22 < Laurenceb> is MP1 faster than H7
2021-02-12T16:38:28 < Laurenceb> that is the question
2021-02-12T16:39:18 < englishman> maybe if you didn't use the lunix
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2021-02-12T16:45:29 < ggonzalez> not sure
2021-02-12T16:46:06 < ggonzalez> I didn't know the H7 also supports secure boot
2021-02-12T16:48:18 < mawk> mp1 is faster
2021-02-12T16:48:20 < mawk> if you don't use linux yeah
2021-02-12T16:48:32 < mawk> if you do, well maybe you can achieve good results with a preempt-rt kernel or a xenomai kernel
2021-02-12T16:48:42 < mawk> and then high prio rt task
2021-02-12T16:52:03 < zyp> at some point the question becomes «faster at what?»
2021-02-12T16:52:36 < Laurenceb> yeah lunix overhead lol
2021-02-12T16:53:11 < Laurenceb> at least it has actual useful and well designed multicore
2021-02-12T16:53:22 < Laurenceb> rather than xmos tier autism
2021-02-12T16:53:53 < Laurenceb> openmp+lunix looks epin
2021-02-12T16:54:38 < Laurenceb> xmos: not as bad as propellor but damn it its close
2021-02-12T16:56:43 < ggonzalez> Could anyone with access to an H7 dump the Internal System Memory and share it with me?
2021-02-12T16:58:09 < zyp> the rom bootloader, you mean?
2021-02-12T16:58:32 < ggonzalez> yeah
2021-02-12T16:59:33 < ggonzalez> not sure if the normal and secure bootloaders would appear on the dump
2021-02-12T16:59:40 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-02-12T16:59:46 < Laurenceb> didnt realise you could do that
2021-02-12T17:02:50 < Laurenceb> dual core atmega2561
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2021-02-12T17:29:37 < Laurenceb> RTOS question:
2021-02-12T17:29:57 < Laurenceb> say I have a struct which is used to pass status data from one thread to many threads
2021-02-12T17:30:09 < Laurenceb> using a single mutex to lock it is inefficient
2021-02-12T17:30:23 < Laurenceb> could I use a "pool" of mutexes?
2021-02-12T17:30:36 < Laurenceb> so say 4 mutexes
2021-02-12T17:31:07 < Laurenceb> the write thread needs to lock all four before writing, but read threads only try to lock one available mutex
2021-02-12T17:31:32 < Laurenceb> to avoid contention between multiple reader threads
2021-02-12T17:39:08 < Laurenceb> you could do this with flag bytes and a couple of lines with interrupts disabled, but then you dont get the thread sleep/resume features
2021-02-12T17:40:10 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readers-writer_lock ?
2021-02-12T17:40:40 < Laurenceb> heh thanks
2021-02-12T17:40:45  * Laurenceb fails at comp sci
2021-02-12T17:41:32 < Laurenceb> >constructed on top of mutexes 
2021-02-12T17:41:38 < Laurenceb> heh I reinvented the wheel
2021-02-12T17:46:39 < Laurenceb> the Raynal thing is kind of like what I was thinking of but with only two mutexes, neat
2021-02-12T18:08:53 < Ultrasauce> the only thing i liked about the windows api was https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/sync/slim-reader-writer--srw--locks
2021-02-12T18:15:56 < jpa-> i would implement that using semaphores
2021-02-12T18:16:25 < jpa-> initialize semaphore to number of readers; wait for it before read; release after read; wait N times before write
2021-02-12T18:18:15 < qyx> ggonzalez: not "used" yet but started a design
2021-02-12T18:18:20 < qyx> mawk: no
2021-02-12T18:19:40 < mawk> hmmmm
2021-02-12T18:24:33 < fenugrec> anyone using code generators like telosys, autogen or others ? looking for a better option to manage error codes + strings + etc accross a few projects
2021-02-12T18:26:07 < jpa-> i haven't used any, but telosys does look cool
2021-02-12T18:26:31 < karlp> hah.
2021-02-12T18:26:39 < karlp>  anoble goal, I applaud you
2021-02-12T18:26:59 < karlp> last time I tried, it was with "more xsd" and it was better than the alternative, btu it still sucked
2021-02-12T18:27:29 < fenugrec> can't figure out if telosys can work with csv or other text-based (aka versionable) db. Seems to be more geared for proper dbs and stuff
2021-02-12T18:27:50 < karlp> "no uml!" (use this _other_ dsl)
2021-02-12T18:28:11 < fenugrec> autogen almost fits the bill, but is going to be pain to run on win*
2021-02-12T18:28:32 < jpa-> fenugrec: "DSL model" looks like the non-database text based stuff
2021-02-12T18:28:52 < karlp> I don't really miss working at this sort of level :)
2021-02-12T18:28:54 < fenugrec> I mean, this isn't a new problem... sure I can hand-edit a bunch of .c and .h files... or the current method with a spreadsheet and a fugly macro to output .h
2021-02-12T18:30:11 < jpa-> if you are targeting only C and C++, .h with macros does work..
2021-02-12T18:30:51 < fenugrec> jpa-, right, but I can't find any example remotely similar to what I want to do. Their dsl examples look more  like "define a bunch of structs, here's how to generate java objects and trash " vs "here's an array of stuff, generate an enum / array of structs"
2021-02-12T18:31:07 < fenugrec> I meant spreadsheet macro to generate the .h
2021-02-12T18:31:57 < jpa-> yes, but i don't know why the spreadsheet
2021-02-12T18:32:07 < fenugrec> karlp, "more [xml anything]" is rarely a desirable option : )
2021-02-12T18:32:25 < fenugrec> because... columns
2021-02-12T18:32:32 < jpa-> and yeah, telosys seems to be geared towards generating an object oriented model, rather than bunch of data
2021-02-12T18:36:00 < karlp> fenugrec: in an old job, I did soap "properly" and beat people with actually generating services frrom xsd+wsdl, instead of generating wsdl from code.
2021-02-12T18:36:53 < karlp> let you do ws interop via actually directly connecting outputs of one service into another one, instead of having to "map" all the same fields into different xml namespaces and shit.
2021-02-12T18:37:18 < karlp> but staff and tooling is clearly not setup for doign it schema first, as it's slower to get demos working.
2021-02-12T18:38:17 < fenugrec> heh, sounds like the kind of solution I'd prefer not getting into
2021-02-12T18:39:05 < jpa-> I find .h files with X-macros quite versatile and readable, but I'm weird like that.
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2021-02-12T18:47:30 < fenugrec> maybe cog, but I can see where embedding python code in a C comment will fall apart with any kind of autoformatting that touches whitespace
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2021-02-12T18:51:39 < karlp> fenugrec: no, that was a very heavy webmethods shop, with external contractots getting paid absurd amounts to do thigns the gross ways and just keep translating shit
2021-02-12T18:52:12 < karlp> using my schema first stuff made webmethods actually behave the way it probably did in demos and documentation, but ... fucking trainwreck
2021-02-12T18:52:19 < karlp> "add more SOA"
2021-02-12T18:54:41 < fenugrec> that is all alien to me
2021-02-12T18:58:30 < qyx> ##covid32 well done https://www.datawrapper.de/_/cK58r/
2021-02-12T18:59:52 < karlp> qyx: is that cases per day in .sk not getting any better?
2021-02-12T19:00:29 < qyx> mildly said, yes
2021-02-12T19:01:40 < Steffanx> Werent you testing like crazy?
2021-02-12T19:01:42 < fenugrec> ~ 500 ppm ?
2021-02-12T19:02:41 < qyx> Steffanx: yeah but they are not tracking your contacts anymore, *you* should do it
2021-02-12T19:03:13 < karlp> well, if you have high prevalence, there's not a lot of poitn tracing.
2021-02-12T19:03:21 < karlp> tracing only works when you're low and tryign to stamp out the corners.
2021-02-12T19:03:37 < karlp> we're at the stage of wrestlign with how hard to make ouir borders.
2021-02-12T19:03:53 < qyx> we are finally closing too
2021-02-12T19:04:14 < karlp> police were chasing a pair of americans around the other day who were overheard in a bar talking about how it was so much better there at the bar than in the stupid quarantine they were meant to be in....
2021-02-12T19:04:36 < karlp> outsiders don't hve the social obligations, they're never going to comply the same way as residents.
2021-02-12T19:04:52 < qyx> but wtf, you are not allowed to go skiing alone locally (because closed) but you can go abroad and back
2021-02-12T19:04:54 < karlp> it kinda has to be "locked up" not just, "please stay in your hotel and don't do anything"
2021-02-12T19:06:33 < qyx> not that skiing is the thing that bothers me in this situation
2021-02-12T19:07:01 < qyx> but for example there is an exempt for people working in other countries, they can freely move
2021-02-12T19:07:33 < qyx> and there are many migrating .uk - .sk every week
2021-02-12T19:08:11 < qyx> meh, another pomodoro
2021-02-12T19:15:03 < karlp> I love reading ECN's, "Allow orange in addition to amber LEDs for downstream facing hub
2021-02-12T19:15:05 < karlp> ports:"
2021-02-12T19:19:54 < karlp> hrm, usb2, sec 7.4.2.1 says 120uF on vbus _per hub_
2021-02-12T19:19:58 < karlp> I thought that was per port.
2021-02-12T19:23:28 < jpa-> makes more sense per hub, considering it's just to absorb the spike from the 10µF device side cap
2021-02-12T19:24:34 < karlp> yeah, I hadn't checked the device side until now, but given that is only 10uF, does seem sane to be per hub.
2021-02-12T19:25:11 < karlp> app notes on these load switches I've got uses 150uF+100nF.
2021-02-12T19:25:30 < karlp> still, a usb host root ports ech count as a hub right.... :)
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2021-02-12T20:29:26 < karlp> hooray, ti has the same part in two different sized "xson" packages.
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2021-02-12T20:44:54 < bitmask> hmm, this knife switch is more heavy duty than I expected
2021-02-12T20:54:56 < karlp> hehe, quacktel pwoer save document refers to an AT command that isn't in their AT command reference. and just says, "for more info, see the AT command reference"
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2021-02-12T21:10:49 < qyx> after spending the last hour investigating why this damned SD card level shifter is not shifting
2021-02-12T21:10:56 < qyx> I just found out it has no VDD
2021-02-12T21:39:44 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@6.200.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
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2021-02-12T21:48:31 < Steffanx> why you do such thing qyx ?
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2021-02-12T21:50:16 < mawk> lol
2021-02-12T22:15:48 < qyx> karlp: do you remember if anyone is working on the FDCAN peripheral?
2021-02-12T22:16:03 < qyx> we are starting so checking if not doing duplicate work
2021-02-12T22:16:10 < qyx> cannot find anything in PRs
2021-02-12T22:16:46 < qyx> s/not//
2021-02-12T22:16:53 < qyx> meh
2021-02-12T22:59:03 < Laurenceb> sheettt
2021-02-12T22:59:13 < Laurenceb> til about corrugated horn antenna
2021-02-12T22:59:19 < Laurenceb> these are too good
2021-02-12T23:02:13 < Steffanx> Let me guess, you made a simulation
2021-02-12T23:03:24 < mawk> you don't like simulations Steffanx ?
2021-02-12T23:04:12 < Steffanx> Stimulations you mean?
2021-02-12T23:04:45 < mawk> :(
2021-02-12T23:05:03 < Laurenceb> no I spent ages CNC milling blocks of aluminium just to see if something might work
2021-02-12T23:05:04 < Laurenceb>  /s
2021-02-12T23:09:34 < mawk> /s
2021-02-12T23:09:40 < mawk> \s
2021-02-12T23:09:42 < mawk>  \s
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2021-02-12T23:24:50 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_antenna#/media/File:Rillenhorn.jpg
2021-02-12T23:25:36 < Laurenceb> that sort of thing with a lens on the front and some rf absorbent baffels incorporated would prob be perfect
2021-02-12T23:26:29 < Steffanx> Soon Laurenceb will claim it gives thrust.
2021-02-12T23:27:08 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-02-12T23:28:49 < BrainDamage> it does give thrust, at least that one is open
2021-02-12T23:29:00 < BrainDamage> tiny, but it does
2021-02-12T23:33:33 < ggonzalez> qyx: I was actually looking if someone has tried to dump the system memory our of the MP1. Just interested if that's allowed the debugging interface. Basically if the bootloader could be pulled from the chip
2021-02-12T23:34:10 < zyp> ggonzalez, what for?
2021-02-12T23:56:38 < Laurenceb> http://suparco.gov.pk/pages/antenna07.asp
2021-02-12T23:56:44 < Laurenceb> interdasting
--- Day changed Sat Feb 13 2021
2021-02-13T00:11:03 < Laurenceb> holy sheeettt
2021-02-13T00:11:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.iter.org/img/resize-2000-70/all/content/com/photo%20galleries%202/construction/systemsplantassembly/cables_66kv_cathedral_federico_small.jpg
2021-02-13T00:12:27 < zyp> hmm?
2021-02-13T00:14:18 < Laurenceb> thats a lot of HV cables
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2021-02-13T00:31:36 < aandrew> qyx: I'm about to connect stm32f4 CAN to a 20 year old DeviceNet library I wrote
2021-02-13T00:32:05 < aandrew> it was originally targeting HC08/12 and then I moved it to ColdFire but a LOT of the code is still written for 8-bitters
2021-02-13T00:34:00 < Laurenceb> keeek I just got anti vax emailz
2021-02-13T00:36:22 < Laurenceb> Piers Corbin tiem
2021-02-13T00:37:22 < qyx> aandrew: lolz
2021-02-13T00:37:26 < qyx> am I microSD-ing
2021-02-13T00:37:36 < qyx> TXS0104 is not shifting
2021-02-13T00:37:45 < qyx> or better to say, it is, from 1V8 to 0V7
2021-02-13T00:38:44 < qyx> fucking shit, the mux is unpowered too
2021-02-13T00:39:18 < qyx> thats not going to be easy to patch
2021-02-13T00:41:15 < qyx> I was on drugs probably
2021-02-13T00:42:14 < zyp> did mawk slip you something?
2021-02-13T00:43:14 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HOxrB/Screenshot_2021-02-12_23-43-01.png
2021-02-13T00:43:40 < qyx> I need to connect pad 5 to VDDSD instead :S
2021-02-13T00:44:06 < ggonzalez> zyp: research / learning what they implement the bootloader 
2021-02-13T00:44:10 < qyx> I could be able to damage the via
2021-02-13T00:44:51 < zyp> qyx, remove cap, cut trace between chip and cap pad, deadbug cap on top of chip, wire to pin and to voltage source
2021-02-13T00:45:14 < zyp> or if you like, stand the cap upright on the gnd pad
2021-02-13T00:56:20 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3OCN3
2021-02-13T00:56:21 < qyx> gross
2021-02-13T00:56:25 < qyx> the dust
2021-02-13T00:56:45 < zyp> nice
2021-02-13T00:56:58 < qyx> (I had the thing uncovered on a table for the last few days)
2021-02-13T00:57:46 < qyx> the wire looks thick, it is 0.28 mm only though
2021-02-13T00:58:06 < zyp> it's the comment I always get :)
2021-02-13T00:58:44 < zyp> it's nice to use something rigid
2021-02-13T01:01:51 < mawk> I'm not like that zyp 
2021-02-13T01:02:05 < mawk> actually when I manufactured date rape grub GHB, I added a blue coloring to it
2021-02-13T01:02:10 < mawk> in case a weirdo wants to use it to drug a girl
2021-02-13T01:03:08 < zyp> noted, don't buy date rape drugs from mawk 
2021-02-13T01:03:15 < mawk> exactly
2021-02-13T01:03:36 < mawk> only date rape yourself 
2021-02-13T01:03:43 < mawk> with your hand or something
2021-02-13T01:13:26 < Laurenceb> I found Russian grrl on online dating
2021-02-13T01:13:31 < Laurenceb> talking of date raep
2021-02-13T01:13:46 < Laurenceb> she is milking the simps
2021-02-13T01:15:49 < Laurenceb> she runs networks of fake accounts
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2021-02-13T01:35:07 < kakium69> hello weekend
2021-02-13T01:45:01 < Steffanx> Hi mr
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2021-02-13T01:58:14 < skz81> mawk, http://skuizh.free.fr/zoundz/for_rust_cohle.mp3
2021-02-13T02:00:50 < skz81> http://skuizh.free.fr/zoundz/petits_malins.mp3 >> Are U old enough
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2021-02-13T02:03:34 < mawk> Laurenceb: I found girl from my work on online dating
2021-02-13T02:03:37 < mawk> but she didn't see me
2021-02-13T02:04:18 < Laurenceb> chances are she was milking the simps
2021-02-13T02:04:27 < mawk> lol
2021-02-13T02:04:36 < Laurenceb> russian grrrl would get free meals from expensive restaurants
2021-02-13T02:05:07 < Laurenceb> or sometimes fug them with pricked condoms
2021-02-13T02:05:17 < Laurenceb> I read all her chatz when she left her pc unlocked
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2021-02-13T02:16:21 < skz81> mawk, fuck you
2021-02-13T02:21:31 < qyx> is skz81 the girl from mawk's work?
2021-02-13T02:23:54 < skz81> qyx > what ?
2021-02-13T02:24:20  * skz81 cheks its ballz
2021-02-13T02:35:23 < mawk> what skz81 
2021-02-13T02:35:43 < mawk> hold on
2021-02-13T02:36:29 < mawk> sounds like old techno
2021-02-13T02:39:11 < mawk> nice tracks
2021-02-13T02:39:16 < mawk> lol petits malins
2021-02-13T02:39:18 < mawk> awful
2021-02-13T02:40:16 < mawk> gaby gaby gaby gaby gaby gaby l'ami l'ami l'ami des tout-petits
2021-02-13T02:47:46 < Steffanx> is that scatman?
2021-02-13T02:48:38 < mawk> no
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2021-02-13T02:54:41 < qyx> if I started from scratch it would take less to get the sd working
2021-02-13T02:55:11 < qyx> I am curious why do people even use fatfs
2021-02-13T02:55:36 < qyx> full of hacks and umreadable code without comcept
2021-02-13T02:55:39 < qyx> n
2021-02-13T02:56:36 < qyx> there is a send command, it sends a command
2021-02-13T02:56:48 < qyx> but hey, it doesn't assert chip select
2021-02-13T02:56:55 < qyx> oh, sometimes it does!
2021-02-13T02:57:09 < qyx> the command does have a response
2021-02-13T02:57:18 < qyx> it doesn't read it thougj
2021-02-13T02:57:25 < qyx> oh, sometimes it does!
2021-02-13T02:58:21 < qyx> sometimes there is some dummy byte sent
2021-02-13T02:58:23 < qyx> sometimes not
2021-02-13T02:59:25 < qyx> a comment says check if SD v1
2021-02-13T02:59:44 < qyx> yeah, and then they assign type = v2
2021-02-13T03:09:53 < mawk> skz81: 
2021-02-13T03:27:54 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-13T03:28:06 < Laurenceb> qyx: it is copypaste only code
2021-02-13T03:28:27 < Laurenceb> I got good performance once I rewrote the low level stm32 codez to use dma properly
2021-02-13T03:29:06 < Laurenceb> over >1MB/s averaging over 10minutes or so iirc
2021-02-13T03:29:52 < Laurenceb> writing to wav files from F103
2021-02-13T03:31:12  * Laurenceb got access to all Met Office weather station data from 1970 to current
2021-02-13T03:31:22 < Laurenceb> problem is I dont trust some of the data
2021-02-13T03:31:44 < Laurenceb> e.g. wind direction is 0 an anomalously large percentage of the time
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2021-02-13T03:33:32 < Laurenceb> iirc fatfs uses excessive numbers of commands and breaks up long reads when it doesnt have to
2021-02-13T03:33:42 < Laurenceb> so I swapped that out
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2021-02-13T03:36:53 < Laurenceb> MAGA!!!
2021-02-13T03:37:01 < Laurenceb> An hero 4 Trump
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2021-02-13T03:39:59 < Laurenceb> if you kill yourself, Trump wins!
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2021-02-13T05:36:42 < kakium69> can ups wake up nas via usb when power is back
2021-02-13T05:37:03 < kakium69> or even power up?
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2021-02-13T09:30:21 < jpa-> kakium69: set your NAS to power up automatically when power is restored?
2021-02-13T09:30:45 < jpa-> should be available in bios or similar
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2021-02-13T12:41:00 < qyx> the SD spec has bits listed from the right (LSB first)
2021-02-13T12:48:39 < jadew> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-10/crypto-mogul-bets-on-meme-investing-with-millions-in-gamestop
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2021-02-13T14:23:48 < mawk> https://ipvm.com/reports/senators-dahua
2021-02-13T14:23:50 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-02-13T14:23:56 < mawk> still because of me lol
2021-02-13T14:24:03 < mawk> I suppose that can be called butterfly effect
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2021-02-13T14:31:00 < Steffanx> lolol mawk 
2021-02-13T14:31:13 < Steffanx> Did you also stop using the camera at work mawk ?
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2021-02-13T14:37:08 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-02-13T14:37:10 < mawk> but I suppose it's the same with the other chinese brands
2021-02-13T14:42:26 < Steffanx> not unlikely..
2021-02-13T14:42:32 < Steffanx> your boss will be happppyy
2021-02-13T14:42:42 < mawk> lol
2021-02-13T14:42:46 < mawk> he thought it was fun
2021-02-13T14:42:51 < mawk> so that's ok
2021-02-13T14:44:56 < mawk> we have geovision, hanwha, hikvision
2021-02-13T14:45:33 < mawk> but these three have been smart enough to hide the race code from their sdk probably
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2021-02-13T15:10:27 < Steffanx> hikvision .. not very hidden apparently because they are already on that website mawk 
2021-02-13T15:10:38 < mawk> yes but for something else
2021-02-13T15:10:46 < mawk> it's because their cameras were spotted in concentration camps
2021-02-13T15:11:01 < Steffanx> no
2021-02-13T15:11:05 < mawk> yes
2021-02-13T15:11:07 < Steffanx> https://ipvm.com/reports/hikvision-uyghur
2021-02-13T15:11:28 < Steffanx> it explicitly says it...
2021-02-13T15:11:32 < mawk> ah lol they even marketed it
2021-02-13T15:11:35 < mawk> how stupid can they get
2021-02-13T15:12:07 < qyx> interesting, sandisk ultra card doesn't respond the obvious way
2021-02-13T15:16:07 < Steffanx> hows the ice skating progressing mawk ?
2021-02-13T15:16:12 < mawk> 0%
2021-02-13T15:16:24 < mawk> I did some in germany though
2021-02-13T15:16:42 < mawk> skz81 are you french
2021-02-13T15:16:52 < mawk> or do you just like french techno
2021-02-13T15:17:52 < Steffanx> hes french
2021-02-13T15:17:56 < mawk> oh no
2021-02-13T15:18:05 < Steffanx> oui oui
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2021-02-13T15:19:35 < mawk> I found a trick to claim LGBT rights
2021-02-13T15:19:40 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-13T15:19:40 < mawk> say you are semibisexual
2021-02-13T15:19:57 < Steffanx> i dont give a damn anyway
2021-02-13T15:20:02 < mawk> why
2021-02-13T15:20:07 < mawk> you don't want privileges?
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2021-02-13T16:13:01  * Laurenceb is getting confused by wind speeds
2021-02-13T16:13:16 < Laurenceb> >max speed over the past 30 years in Camborne, UK was 42mph
2021-02-13T16:13:28 < Laurenceb> somehow I doubt this weather station data is correct
2021-02-13T16:21:54 < mawk> call them Laurenceb 
2021-02-13T16:22:52 < qyx> Laurenceb: redid the low level spi thing, works now
2021-02-13T16:23:00 < qyx> a bit.
2021-02-13T16:27:11 < Laurenceb> col
2021-02-13T16:27:28 < Laurenceb> I have some codez on my github
2021-02-13T16:27:40 < Laurenceb> mawk: met office gave me a free account O_o
2021-02-13T16:27:49 < Laurenceb> so I dont have to pay £750/station
2021-02-13T16:27:53 < mawk> nice
2021-02-13T16:28:07 < Laurenceb> dunno if they have free support lol
2021-02-13T16:28:14 < mawk> so they rigged data so you pay full fee
2021-02-13T16:28:18 < mawk> smart
2021-02-13T16:28:24 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-13T16:29:20 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZFSY54lY8
2021-02-13T16:30:32 < Laurenceb> >when the older kids get more competitive and then the richfag dad buys his kids extra after school pig chasing lessons and he has all the latest pig catching gear and you just get rekt and become a pigless incel
2021-02-13T16:30:58 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2021-02-13T16:39:20 < Laurenceb> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nottingham-joker-bowling-ball-jail-b1798561.html
2021-02-13T16:39:23 < Laurenceb> it wasn't me
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2021-02-13T16:40:23 < mawk> >Damien Hammond was high on the drug Mamba
2021-02-13T16:40:25 < mawk> lol
2021-02-13T16:43:09 -!- fenugrec [~fenugrec@97.107.220.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-13T16:44:06  * Laurenceb is reading /b/ again
2021-02-13T16:44:09 < Laurenceb> >Not sure what's real anymore. I can feel the sun piercing my body, and everything smells like poo. I keep thinking "they" are coming for me, but I couldn't tell you who they are. I'm shouting at household appliances again. 
2021-02-13T16:44:12 < Laurenceb> irl kekking
2021-02-13T16:59:00 < Laurenceb> Happy Dresden Day everyone
2021-02-13T17:00:19 < mawk> don't fall in the /b/-hole Laurenceb 
2021-02-13T17:00:59 < Laurenceb> > Adam Curtis: His documentaries usually mention some pretty interesting stuff, but the correlations he then draws between them is ridiculous nonsense. All Watched over by Machines of Loving Grace is good viewing, but his attempt to link Ayn Rand with "The Mother of All Demos", with the late 1990s Asian recession and then with genetic determinism is absurd and laughable. The music, interesting titbits and darting pace keep you watching. All
2021-02-13T17:00:59 < Laurenceb>  the while something akin to a schizoid embolism is poured into your brain.
2021-02-13T17:01:05 < Laurenceb> lolling
2021-02-13T17:07:35 < Laurenceb> you have been visited by: BASED HARRY the Dresden Decimator
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2021-02-13T17:13:12 < kakium69> mikrotik is impressive
2021-02-13T17:13:19 < kakium69> so many options
2021-02-13T17:13:24 < kakium69> touchscreen
2021-02-13T17:13:25 < kakium69> power
2021-02-13T17:13:41 < kakium69> dual core beast
2021-02-13T17:14:15 < mawk> like st
2021-02-13T17:14:19 < mawk> don't cheat on st kakium69 
2021-02-13T17:14:22 < mawk> guaranteed way to hell
2021-02-13T17:17:39 < Laurenceb> muh dual corez
2021-02-13T17:17:48 < Laurenceb> usually xmos tier tbh
2021-02-13T17:26:16 < qyx> hm, 0.5 MB/s read is not that good
2021-02-13T17:26:33 < qyx> but for 8 MHz SPI freq it looks okish
2021-02-13T17:26:35 < mawk> what is it for qyx ?
2021-02-13T17:26:37 < mawk> thesd
2021-02-13T17:27:55 < qyx> for logging my accelerations
2021-02-13T17:28:04 -!- fenugrec_ is now known as fenugrec
2021-02-13T17:28:05 < qyx> I am finishing Laurenceb's babyshake
2021-02-13T17:30:10 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-13T17:30:39 < Laurenceb> yeah I was using 18MHz spi
2021-02-13T17:31:12 < Laurenceb> but babbyshake2 used usb and lunix pc
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2021-02-13T17:48:09 < Steffanx> And oidio
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2021-02-13T18:07:53 < qyx> interesting that the first two read commands fail with illegal command status
2021-02-13T18:09:07 < jpa-> qyx: do you have enough buffer memory for 0.5 seconds of your data?
2021-02-13T18:09:49 < jpa-> otherwise you're in for a world of trouble when the card goes "stop! wear level time!"
2021-02-13T18:10:08 < jpa-> better cards usually pause for like 0.1s, but i've seen some do up to 0.5s pauses
2021-02-13T18:14:20 < qyx> I am reading only
2021-02-13T18:14:28 < qyx> no writes so far
2021-02-13T18:14:39 < jpa-> sure
2021-02-13T18:14:49 < jpa-> but if you are logging something, i assume that will be writes :)
2021-02-13T18:14:49 < qyx> yeah I encountered those half-a-second pauses in the past
2021-02-13T18:15:14 < qyx> I mean, I don$t even have a write routine now :>
2021-02-13T18:17:18 < qyx> there are also two more things I fear more
2021-02-13T18:17:42 < qyx> the sandisk ultra responds in a erroneous way
2021-02-13T18:18:00 < qyx> and the other one, I cannot place the card in low power idle
2021-02-13T18:21:25 < Laurenceb> there is some "pre allocation" stuff that can speed up fatfs
2021-02-13T18:22:24 < Laurenceb> iirc I made some benchmarking code and sandisk card were <75ms max pause time
2021-02-13T18:22:37 < Laurenceb> interesting, I never used low power idle
2021-02-13T18:23:32 < Laurenceb> I also added reformat support to st usb mass storage
2021-02-13T18:23:42 < Laurenceb> it returns success and does nothing lol
2021-02-13T18:24:03 < Laurenceb> but that is enough to be able to reformat on windoze and lunix
2021-02-13T18:25:02 < qyx> norway level cabview https://youtu.be/1FGFCSKZ-Yk?t=297
2021-02-13T18:25:12 < Laurenceb> also the codezx on muh github reuse the same dma based spi routines for usb mass storage and fatfs
2021-02-13T18:30:15 < Laurenceb> I did have some swissbit cards but two of them broke after 9months of use
2021-02-13T18:30:38 < Laurenceb> only sandisk failures were due to moisture causing corrosion of the pads
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2021-02-13T18:33:18 < Steffanx> heh qyx  and here trains stop when we have 3cm of snow
2021-02-13T18:34:06 < qyx> this is actually a 1.5kVdc "tram"
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2021-02-13T18:40:20 < Laurenceb> sounds like muh hyperloop project
2021-02-13T18:40:31 < Laurenceb> 600kph tram
2021-02-13T18:41:21 < Laurenceb> inb4 qyx is secretly employed on hyperloop as well
2021-02-13T18:42:01 < Laurenceb> turns out met office data might actually be correct
2021-02-13T18:42:04 < Laurenceb> https://eurocodeapplied.com/design/en1991/wind-peak-velocity-pressure-uk#!
2021-02-13T18:42:26 < Laurenceb> mean wind speed near ground is very low, but there are high windspeed gusts
2021-02-13T18:43:42 < Laurenceb> in fact gust speed is about twice the mean speed
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2021-02-13T18:47:13 < mawk> good Laurenceb then
2021-02-13T18:47:23 < Laurenceb> but at 500m altitude EN1991 design dynamic pressure is 2.25kPa
2021-02-13T18:47:29 < Laurenceb> about as nasty as I expected
2021-02-13T18:47:48 < Laurenceb> so making low altitude tethered balloons survive storms is hard
2021-02-13T18:52:10 < Laurenceb> a one in 50 year storm averaged for one hour at 10m altitude is only 51.5mph
2021-02-13T18:52:30 < Laurenceb> but there are 109mph gusts
2021-02-13T18:58:40 < jpa-> err, brexit has made farnell 100% crazy
2021-02-13T18:58:55 < jpa-> they now send my orders in 5 different packages, 4 of them from UK and 1 from belgium
2021-02-13T18:59:03 < jpa-> *and* they send 5 separate invoices
2021-02-13T18:59:29 < NoesNop> but your fish is happier now
2021-02-13T19:01:44 < Laurenceb> yeah no poaching
2021-02-13T19:03:52 < Laurenceb> https://angrywoodchucksblog.com/2015/03/31/federal-court-rules-jewish-baker-required-to-make-hitler-cake-for-nazi-celebration/
2021-02-13T19:05:06 < Steffanx> 2015..
2021-02-13T19:10:42 < qyx> the card is still carding after 2 hours at 0.5MB/s
2021-02-13T19:10:44 < qyx> great
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2021-02-13T19:45:29 < zyp> very good
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2021-02-13T20:29:31 < qyx> hm, does lunix write anything to the card during partition scan?
2021-02-13T20:33:48 < qyx> nope
2021-02-13T20:33:54 < jpa-> AFAIK no, but if you have some automounter it might clear or set the dirty bit
2021-02-13T20:34:51 < mawk> udisks2
2021-02-13T20:34:55 < mawk> or something
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2021-02-13T20:38:36 < qyx> I was just blind
2021-02-13T20:47:51 < Laurenceb> I managed to get to just under 1MB/s for USB mass storage <-> µSD
2021-02-13T20:48:01 < Laurenceb> thats averaged over a few minutes
2021-02-13T20:56:21 < qyx> hm, 26 KB/s
2021-02-13T20:56:32 < qyx> and the clock is running almost continuously
2021-02-13T20:56:59 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52988.0;attach=2011858;image
2021-02-13T20:57:10 < Laurenceb> raptor engine smooshhed
2021-02-13T20:58:27 < qyx> did you use 4bit SD?
2021-02-13T20:58:30 < qyx> or spi?
2021-02-13T20:58:34 < qyx> and what block size?
2021-02-13T20:59:20 < Laurenceb> spi with 512 byte block size
2021-02-13T20:59:37 < qyx> hrm
2021-02-13T20:59:50 < Laurenceb> but I had 8k of ram as a dedicated dma buffer
2021-02-13T21:00:02 < Laurenceb> then 18MHz spi clk 
2021-02-13T21:00:17 < qyx> oh noice, DIV32 for SPI
2021-02-13T21:03:33 < qyx> 40 K/s using single block writes
2021-02-13T21:49:17 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-13T21:50:07 < zyp> neat, f7 irq list is a direct superset of the f4 irq list
2021-02-13T21:50:33 < zyp> only change is that irq 49 is renamed from SDIO to SDMMC1
2021-02-13T22:00:07 < zyp> rcc regs looks like a direct superset of f4 too
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2021-02-13T22:15:08 < qyx> it should be backwards compatible, shouldn't it?
2021-02-13T22:15:54 < zyp> it what? f7?
2021-02-13T22:16:04 < zyp> binary compatible?
2021-02-13T22:16:09 < qyx> Ii have read it somewhere
2021-02-13T22:16:13 < qyx> fý vs f4
2021-02-13T22:16:17 < zyp> hang on
2021-02-13T22:16:47 < zyp> nope
2021-02-13T22:16:48 < qyx> but idk if they are pin compatible too
2021-02-13T22:16:53 < zyp> uart v1 vs uart v2
2021-02-13T22:16:53 < qyx> otherwise it doesn't have sense
2021-02-13T22:17:12 < qyx> hm
2021-02-13T22:17:26 < qyx> then iirc-not
2021-02-13T22:19:42 < zyp> this yaml instancing stuff is great, didn't take much work at all to add interrupt and rcc stuff for f7
2021-02-13T22:19:55 < zyp> just need to convert every other peripheral to use it too :)
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2021-02-13T22:29:27 < karlp> qyx: there's a PR with a massssive fuck ton of defines, https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/1166 
2021-02-13T22:29:44 < karlp> but they added in some third party code as a library, and i'm not sure abotu it, and they stopped answering. so... 
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2021-02-13T22:48:48 < qyx> fuk the sd spec numbers bits randomly
2021-02-13T22:49:11 < qyx> the whole sd story is garbage
2021-02-13T22:50:01 < qyx> so now, yeah, bits with higher number are SMB but for whatever reason they are listed first in the table
2021-02-13T22:50:06 < mawk> lol
2021-02-13T22:50:08 < qyx> in other tables they list LSB first
2021-02-13T22:52:14 < qyx> so there are 4 different types of tables
2021-02-13T22:52:51 < Steffanx> How did you even get the SD spec qyx ? Isnt it closed?
2021-02-13T22:53:13 < Steffanx> > paid
2021-02-13T22:53:27 < mawk> just use sci-hub
2021-02-13T22:53:31 < mawk> to download anything that's paywalled
2021-02-13T22:53:33 < mawk> or libge,
2021-02-13T22:53:37 < mawk> libgen*
2021-02-13T22:53:39 < mawk> two nice russian projects
2021-02-13T22:53:49 < qyx> Steffanx: the simplifie is free
2021-02-13T22:56:55 < PaulFertser> mawk: it was created by an "interesting" Kazakhstan IT girl, not russian.
2021-02-13T22:57:12 < mawk> ah yes kazakh
2021-02-13T22:57:18 < mawk> alexandra elbakyan or something
2021-02-13T22:57:23 < mawk> why interesting?
2021-02-13T22:57:28 < mawk> because she does esoteric research?
2021-02-13T22:59:35 < PaulFertser> mawk: e.g. she blocked all russian IPs after some wasp was named after her
2021-02-13T22:59:46 < mawk> lol what
2021-02-13T23:00:01 < mawk> the wasp was an hommage right
2021-02-13T23:00:26 < PaulFertser> Of course
2021-02-13T23:00:55 < Steffanx> lolol the irony.
2021-02-13T23:01:09 < mawk> https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/sci-hub-blocked-in-russia-following-ruling-by-moscow-court/3009838.article
2021-02-13T23:01:12 < mawk> it doesn't say about the wasp
2021-02-13T23:01:55 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan
2021-02-13T23:02:00 < mawk> ah yes: https://rinat-maksutov.medium.com/sci-hub-is-blocked-in-russia-founder-says-shes-been-bullied-by-scientists-b482aa76037
2021-02-13T23:03:20 < PaulFertser> And just recently in 2019 after studying biblical languages in st.petersburg she managed to engage in a very unrespectful argument with one of the professors there and got "C" for her diploma work.
2021-02-13T23:26:53 < qyx> so has mr. putin removed her from the world yet?
2021-02-13T23:29:41 < kakium69> solar blimps?
2021-02-13T23:30:37 < kakium69> ah I was reading up there ^
2021-02-13T23:31:55 < Steffanx> Good morning kakium69 
2021-02-13T23:32:38 < kakium69> hello
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2021-02-13T23:36:38 < vegii> Hi. I've seen new blackpill boards on ali, ones with STM32F4. Cost just barely more than STM32F103 ones. Are they good and do they have issues like other pill boards?
2021-02-13T23:37:50 < zyp> f4 is better than f103 for sure
2021-02-13T23:38:01 < zyp> not sure if there are any issues with them
2021-02-13T23:39:26 < Steffanx> And the F4s come with a USB-C connector... that makes zyp  happy for sure :P
2021-02-13T23:39:32 < Steffanx> (if implemented correctly ofcourse)
2021-02-13T23:39:48 < zyp> yeah, I saw that
2021-02-13T23:41:34 < vegii> do they have OTG? so I could attach like a USB-A mouse to it
2021-02-13T23:41:48 < vegii> afaik the STM32F4 could support that
2021-02-13T23:42:14 < zyp> the stm32 itself does, but I doubt the board supports outputting power
2021-02-13T23:42:54 < vegii> ...why not
2021-02-13T23:42:57 < zyp> so you could probably get it to work if you provide your own 5V
2021-02-13T23:43:19 < vegii> do you expect a schottky usb input diode?
2021-02-13T23:43:21 < zyp> because you're talking about a $1 or something board :)
2021-02-13T23:43:30 < zyp> no
2021-02-13T23:43:48 < zyp> I mean, a proper OTG capable board requires a power switch
2021-02-13T23:44:06 < zyp> and for USB C you also need something to do CC negotiation
2021-02-13T23:44:20 < vegii> ok, I meant host capability on that port
2021-02-13T23:44:42 < vegii> compatible with a passive USB OTG USB-C/USB-A adapter
2021-02-13T23:44:59 < karlp> get the schematic frrom the vendor....
2021-02-13T23:45:06 < zyp> yeah, like I said, as long as you provide 5V yourself, you can make it work
2021-02-13T23:45:31 < zyp> the data lines are the same in any case, it's just vbus that needs extra stuff outside the chip to support OTG
2021-02-13T23:46:10 < zyp> hrm
2021-02-13T23:46:15 < vegii> vbus could be hardwired to 5V
2021-02-13T23:46:26 < zyp> bmp is having problems interrupting the f7
2021-02-13T23:47:23 < zyp> I set a breakpoint on main and it stops there when it's supposed to, but after I continue I can't halt it again
2021-02-13T23:47:54 < zyp> I wonder if this is because I'm using wfi
2021-02-13T23:52:33 < zyp> yup, commenting out the wfi lets me interrupt it at any time
2021-02-13T23:56:47 < zyp> although SCR does not have SLEEPDEEP set, so I'm not sure why that is happening
2021-02-13T23:59:49 < mawk> if you substitute with wfe?
--- Day changed Sun Feb 14 2021
2021-02-14T00:00:25 < zyp> that'll probably break my application, but let's try
2021-02-14T00:00:41 < zyp> same issue
2021-02-14T00:01:22 < mawk> weird
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2021-02-14T00:25:53 < kakium69> https://pastebin.com/nAsfh482 hello LTE
2021-02-14T00:28:39 < mawk> well done
2021-02-14T00:28:42 < mawk> which module?
2021-02-14T00:30:23 < kakium69> EM7455 ofc
2021-02-14T00:30:44 < kakium69> I did fw update and then needed nuke configs
2021-02-14T00:31:23 < kakium69> I got only 50M/38M/28ms so later tonight I'm connecting yagis to it
2021-02-14T00:31:56 < kakium69> I hope to see +100M/50M/30ms
2021-02-14T00:34:47 < kakium69> I have old huawei box rippin close to 150M and other boxes have not been able to come close but I want my mikrodik + em7455 to get better performances
2021-02-14T00:35:30 < zyp> okay
2021-02-14T00:35:33 < kakium69> I don't know how it's able to get +100M with band locked to B20
2021-02-14T00:36:03 < zyp> so apparently even sleep mode (plain wfi/wfe) turns off the debug module clock
2021-02-14T00:36:18 < zyp> and the solution is setting DBG_SLEEP in DBGMCU_CR
2021-02-14T00:36:53 < englishman> yes it uses a little bit more power so just shut it off again in release
2021-02-14T00:41:54 < Steffanx> Or be lazy keep it and only set the bit when a debugger is connected? 
2021-02-14T00:42:10 < Steffanx> Or do some not have this bit, not sure.
2021-02-14T00:42:41 < zyp> yeah, setting the bit from the debugger makes more sense
2021-02-14T00:48:39 < mawk> zyp: that was what I had in mind
2021-02-14T00:48:43 < mawk> but I was too tired to remember
2021-02-14T00:48:56 < mawk> so sorry to not have been able to help lol
2021-02-14T00:49:29 < zyp> gonna give orbuculum a try now
2021-02-14T00:50:07 < mawk> from swo?
2021-02-14T00:50:14 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-14T00:50:49 < mawk> is it french?
2021-02-14T00:50:56 < mawk> "orbuculum: The main program and multiplexer...used as a base interface to the target by other programmes in the suite."
2021-02-14T00:50:56 < zyp> idk
2021-02-14T00:51:02 < mawk> programmes looks like a french typo
2021-02-14T00:51:33 < mawk> karlp contributed to it
2021-02-14T00:51:41 < zyp> karlp contributes to everything
2021-02-14T00:51:44 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T00:52:01 < Steffanx> time to setup a patreon
2021-02-14T00:53:15 < Steffanx> i think its another project karlp  has this love/hate relationship with
2021-02-14T00:54:57 < qyx> Laurenceb: 250 K/s with 64K blocks, with 256K blocks it is the same
2021-02-14T00:55:02 < qyx> using 8 MHz SPI
2021-02-14T00:55:33 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-14T00:55:40 < zyp> but seriously, there's like almost a hundred different things listed here: https://coderstats.net/github/#karlp
2021-02-14T00:57:24 < qyx> Hubbish is not rubbish
2021-02-14T00:57:51 < Steffanx> hah i just checked that one too
2021-02-14T01:04:42 < englishman> the most important one is at the top
2021-02-14T01:06:47 < zyp> hmm, doesn't seem to be working
2021-02-14T01:25:15 < zyp> I'll dick more around with it tomorrow, need some sleep first
2021-02-14T01:25:36 < englishman> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware, or other malicious content.
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2021-02-14T02:40:40 < qyx> TIL: never ever switch off power to a i2c connected device
2021-02-14T02:40:58 < qyx> (*to conserve power)
2021-02-14T02:42:52 < catphish> qyx: why?
2021-02-14T02:43:04 < catphish> i may be plotting exactly that
2021-02-14T02:44:04 < qyx> because the current injected through SDA/SCL pins from their respective pullups is higher than the idle current of the device itself if it remained powered on :>
2021-02-14T02:45:40 < qyx> which besides drawing current may render the whole bus unusable
2021-02-14T02:46:57 < catphish> i see, i guess one should shut down the whole bus at the same time
2021-02-14T02:46:58 < qyx> so you either have to avoid it completely or switch GND instead which is not always doable
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2021-02-14T02:47:21 < qyx> and that may not help either
2021-02-14T02:47:29 < catphish> i'd probably switch the positive supply, but shut down the bus at the same time
2021-02-14T02:47:47 < qyx> may be ok, don't forget to disconnect pullups
2021-02-14T02:47:59 < qyx> if you are using external
2021-02-14T02:48:07 < catphish> ah i see, good thought, stm32 can do that in software right
2021-02-14T02:48:29 < qyx> yeah but internal weak pullups may not be enough
2021-02-14T02:48:57 < catphish> put the pullups on the swiched external 3v3 then i guess
2021-02-14T02:49:22 < catphish> then as long as the 3v3 if off, and the bus is high-z, it's all good
2021-02-14T02:49:25 < qyx> so, considering all it is maybe easier to just put the device to sleep :P
2021-02-14T02:49:52  * qyx opening max-m8q datasheet
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2021-02-14T03:06:21 < kakium69> how is your sensor going qyx?
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2021-02-14T03:15:48 < Laurenceb> if you put the sensor in a low power mode thats usually the simplest way
2021-02-14T03:16:13 < Laurenceb> also this was a jerb interview question I encountered lol
2021-02-14T03:16:35 < Laurenceb>  "why cant you power down devices connected to an i2c bus to save power?"
2021-02-14T03:16:55 < karlp> aka, why you don't use i2c...
2021-02-14T03:17:29 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-14T03:17:48  * Laurenceb now works for Alstom
2021-02-14T03:18:05 < Laurenceb> muh "independent jerb" didnt last very long
2021-02-14T03:18:15 < Laurenceb> about 4 days later they got taken over
2021-02-14T03:18:21 < kakium69> I think I did some sort of switch for some i2c device
2021-02-14T03:18:48 < kakium69> hard power switch none of that low power mode rubbish
2021-02-14T03:18:57 < Laurenceb> inb4 they shut down the wacky projects unit and I lose my new jerb
2021-02-14T03:19:21 < kakium69> I want wacky projects
2021-02-14T03:20:10 < Laurenceb> make a 122GHz radar
2021-02-14T03:20:55 < qyx> kakium69: trying to save microamps
2021-02-14T03:21:31 < kakium69> it was there if I wanted to save microamps
2021-02-14T03:21:49 < kakium69> but better solution was to get rid of that i2c device alltogether
2021-02-14T03:21:57 < kakium69> always the best solution
2021-02-14T03:21:59 < qyx> karlp: this ublox i2c is awesomeful, I got it working on first try in 30 seconds
2021-02-14T03:22:37 < Laurenceb> ublox gps?
2021-02-14T03:22:47 < qyx> yes
2021-02-14T03:22:50 < mawk> no hyperloop for you Laurenceb ?
2021-02-14T03:22:56 < mawk> you work for the french
2021-02-14T03:23:01 < qyx> now I am trying to find a bytestring to put inside to sleep it
2021-02-14T03:23:09 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah, the other nice feature of ublox is the clk output
2021-02-14T03:23:22 < qyx> I found one, turned off the receiver but still draws 4 mA
2021-02-14T03:23:27 < Laurenceb> mawk: hyperloop for now, it will prob be shut down
2021-02-14T03:23:48 < Laurenceb> qyx: about 1mA should be poss, but its a while since I faffed with it
2021-02-14T03:23:48 < qyx> don't you have some const uint8_t handy for that?
2021-02-14T03:24:01 < kakium69> hyperblimp
2021-02-14T03:24:03 < qyx> k, searching further
2021-02-14T03:24:11  * qyx lazy to construct the actualc ommand
2021-02-14T03:24:16 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T03:24:20 < mawk> 4mA sounds a lot for something sleeping
2021-02-14T03:24:42 < Laurenceb> erm yeah
2021-02-14T03:25:00 < Laurenceb> 1mA was with a lock and poor dynamic/acceleration support
2021-02-14T03:25:26 < qyx> I want totally off
2021-02-14T03:25:40 < Laurenceb> the record was 500µA with lock iirc, but that wasnt ublox
2021-02-14T03:25:49 < Laurenceb> I bet you can get better now
2021-02-14T03:25:51 < mawk> muh amperes
2021-02-14T03:26:12 < Laurenceb> if you want to run a balloon all night over Siberia in winter it all helps
2021-02-14T03:26:35 < mawk> do you need to heat your battery?
2021-02-14T03:26:37 < mawk> in siberia
2021-02-14T03:26:47 < Laurenceb> nah it uses way too much energy
2021-02-14T03:26:54 < mawk> how do you do then
2021-02-14T03:27:01 < Laurenceb> Leo made his own batteries
2021-02-14T03:27:04 < qyx> with unheated battery?
2021-02-14T03:27:09 < Laurenceb> cuz hes crazy like that
2021-02-14T03:27:11 < mawk> but siberia is cold
2021-02-14T03:27:13 < qyx> Laurenceb: still no lisocl2 balloons?
2021-02-14T03:27:16 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah, ~-85C
2021-02-14T03:27:27 < Laurenceb> he wouldnt say what it was
2021-02-14T03:27:30 < Laurenceb> custom lipo
2021-02-14T03:27:36 < Laurenceb> of some sort...
2021-02-14T03:27:38 < qyx> yeah I remember that story
2021-02-14T03:27:48 < qyx> I was reading highaltitude at that time
2021-02-14T03:28:19 < qyx> now there is nothing interesting happening there
2021-02-14T03:28:28 < Laurenceb> yeah ikr
2021-02-14T03:28:36 < Laurenceb> tarduino launcher invasion 
2021-02-14T03:31:43 < Steffanx> Now leo is just I  the sim racing business making BIG money..
2021-02-14T03:32:47 < Laurenceb> now graphine sheet is available the nutty longwave ir harvester would work as a balloon power supply
2021-02-14T03:33:35 < Laurenceb> two horizontal sheets of graphene with aerogel in the middle, and a few peltier units connecting top and bottom sheet
2021-02-14T03:33:57 < Laurenceb> longwave ir heats the bottom sheet to ~20C higher temperature than the top sheet
2021-02-14T03:34:05 < Laurenceb> and thats where you get your power from
2021-02-14T03:36:55  * Laurenceb had another silly idea
2021-02-14T03:37:19 < Laurenceb> blood fuel cell for recharging phones via implanted usb-c port
2021-02-14T03:38:12 < Laurenceb> so if ur gaming on ur iphone its like going for a run at the same time
2021-02-14T03:44:13 < kakium69> could you pull 10W of biopower from blood lurencer?
2021-02-14T03:44:49 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUwfOOdg4eE musics
2021-02-14T03:48:17 < kakium69> let's proceed to test new modem bbl>
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2021-02-14T03:56:06 < qyx> so powering the gps off and keeping pullups draws 1.4 mA
2021-02-14T03:56:23 < qyx> commanding gps to kill itself and keeping the power on draws 1.65 mA
2021-02-14T03:56:25 < qyx> meh
2021-02-14T03:59:32 < catphish> i'm going to be playing with nb-iot soon, doing very low power sensor to 5G network transmission
2021-02-14T04:01:45 < mawk> catphish: my company uses nb-iot
2021-02-14T04:01:49 < mawk> we tried gsm, lora, nb-iot
2021-02-14T04:01:52 < mawk> last one is the winner
2021-02-14T04:02:12 < mawk> lora has low mtu and we are too lazy to implement fragmentation, gsm is a power hog and will be decommissionned in the netherlands
2021-02-14T04:02:18 < mawk> so nb-iot with its 512 bytes mtu is fine
2021-02-14T04:02:21 < mawk> and is booming
2021-02-14T04:02:50 < mawk> we use sara n3 module
2021-02-14T04:02:52 < mawk> from ublox
2021-02-14T04:03:04 < mawk> lora = lorawan
2021-02-14T04:04:12 < mawk> we're one of the very first companies to use nb-iot in the netherlands apparently
2021-02-14T04:04:25 < mawk> since vodafone took months and months to set up the network just for us
2021-02-14T04:04:27 < catphish> mawk: cool, i think we're looking at a module from quectel
2021-02-14T04:05:27 < catphish> we're working with vodafone too, i don't know much about the details yet, but it sounds like we might be part of the same thing :)
2021-02-14T04:05:56 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T04:06:02 < mawk> probably they gained some experience with us
2021-02-14T04:06:08 < mawk> it was really sluggish to get them to setup the thing
2021-02-14T04:06:13 < mawk> so it will be faster now
2021-02-14T04:06:20 < mawk> assuming their euro offices all communicate
2021-02-14T04:06:27 < catphish> got any public info on your project?
2021-02-14T04:06:50 < mawk> not really 
2021-02-14T04:06:56 < mawk> but it's not consumer facing anyway
2021-02-14T04:07:05 < catphish> afaik mine's not announced yet, and yeah, just a trial anyway
2021-02-14T04:07:17 < mawk> the project itself isn't very intersting in itself, we use nb-iot just to send data back to mothership
2021-02-14T04:07:44 < mawk> and get responses back
2021-02-14T04:09:16 < qyx> operators are super lazy in providing nb-iot or lte-m
2021-02-14T04:09:27 < qyx> nb-iot is a joke though
2021-02-14T04:09:44 < mawk> why
2021-02-14T04:10:07 < qyx> because expensive and not really any more useful than lorawan
2021-02-14T04:10:18 < qyx> (we have lorawan operators too)
2021-02-14T04:10:38 < mawk> well I can ask colleagues why we switched to get better arguments
2021-02-14T04:10:38 < qyx> and you need sim
2021-02-14T04:10:45 < mawk> but there was a very good reason to do it apparently
2021-02-14T04:10:52 < mawk> since we overhauled lora devices for nb-iot
2021-02-14T04:11:00 < mawk> lorawan*
2021-02-14T04:11:02 < qyx> a dna few eurobucks monthly for 250k
2021-02-14T04:11:28 < qyx> yeah because it should be easy  to deploy on 4G infra
2021-02-14T04:11:44 < qyx> if they were not money oriented and retarded
2021-02-14T04:11:50 < mawk> I think it was coverage reasons
2021-02-14T04:11:53 < mawk> that's always a problem
2021-02-14T04:12:06 < mawk> our devices are buried under metal boxes
2021-02-14T04:12:14 < mawk> but maybe not, I don't know
2021-02-14T04:12:30 < mawk> or just plain coverage of the NL territory reasons
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2021-02-14T04:44:11 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJwzL8awJk cat talks
2021-02-14T04:50:50 -!- LikWidChzz [~LikWidChz@212.102.47.54] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-14T04:51:05 < LikWidChzz> Morning/afternoon/evening..
2021-02-14T04:51:35 < kakium69> yes
2021-02-14T04:52:03 < LikWidChzz> Any of you folks program these bluepills with the arduino IDE?
2021-02-14T04:55:10 < Laurenceb> >bluepill
2021-02-14T04:55:20 < Laurenceb> >not the brownpill
2021-02-14T04:55:26 < Laurenceb> its a very hard pill to swallow
2021-02-14T04:55:42 < LikWidChzz> This is correct. Sir.. SIR... That pil is a suppository!
2021-02-14T04:55:51 < LikWidChzz> I repeat do not swallow.
2021-02-14T04:56:03 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-02-14T04:56:25 < Laurenceb> not the blackpill, the whitepill, the redpill or the bluepill, its the brownpill for me
2021-02-14T04:56:29 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T04:56:37 < mawk> why would you do this LikWidChzz ?
2021-02-14T04:57:26 < LikWidChzz> I didnt make that mistake but im sure some have. But onto the programmy things, yes why not?
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2021-02-14T04:58:42 < jly> who wants to install a linux
2021-02-14T04:59:06 < LikWidChzz> who wants to install a microsoft?
2021-02-14T05:02:10 < mawk> I want jly 
2021-02-14T05:02:26 < jly> WHAT'S YOUR NAME
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2021-02-14T07:52:53 < mawk> how am I supposed to do half-duplex spi master on stm32
2021-02-14T07:53:16 < mawk> there are three options: 1) my logic analyzer is broken 2) HAL does uncomprehensibly stupid shit 3) I'm too dumb to get it working
2021-02-14T07:54:27 < mawk> I enable SPI periph, transmit, then disable-enable it again to pulse CS since the device seems to require it, then I receive, then I disable the periph
2021-02-14T07:54:58 < mawk> but what I see is that just after I enable the periph and before the transmit, it's outputting 80 0xFF bytes on the spi bus
2021-02-14T07:55:04 < mawk> why
2021-02-14T07:56:03 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210214065555068.png this thing
2021-02-14T07:56:50 < mawk> enabling the periph should assert CS and that' sall
2021-02-14T07:56:52 < mawk> not start the clock
2021-02-14T07:56:56 < mawk> why is it starting the clock
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2021-02-14T10:19:43 < zyp> qyx, or you could use one of those i2c voltage translators and only shut off one side of it, leaving devices on the other side working
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2021-02-14T12:17:09 < mawk> https://youtu.be/K19go7VWg7Y italian music
2021-02-14T12:19:59 < mawk> who did spi half duplex master with hal before???
2021-02-14T12:32:24 < Steffanx> Yo momma 
2021-02-14T12:36:39 < mawk> :(
2021-02-14T12:37:24 < mawk> I'm hinting towards either silicon bug or hal bug
2021-02-14T12:37:45 < mawk> if I explicitly set spi registers to reset value it doesn't go crazy
2021-02-14T12:37:50 < mawk> I'll look in errata
2021-02-14T12:38:40 < mawk> it's on l432kc
2021-02-14T12:42:50 < zyp> time to figure out why I'm not getting any data in orbuculum
2021-02-14T12:43:14 < zyp> I dug out the scope and checked the swo line -- no activity
2021-02-14T12:43:45 < jpa-> on many STM32's, you need to connect with debugger first to activate the debug block, otherwise SWO won't work either
2021-02-14T12:44:34 < zyp> well, I did
2021-02-14T12:44:54 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum#configuring-the-target <- I did this stuff as well
2021-02-14T13:05:31 < qyx> mawk: I did
2021-02-14T13:05:47 < qyx> zyp: hm txs0102?
2021-02-14T13:07:45 < zyp> I was thinking something like tca9617b
2021-02-14T13:13:46 < qyx> very similar and not capable of doing 1V8-1V8 neither :(
2021-02-14T13:14:13 < qyx> maybe something of a "hot-plug" type like tca4311
2021-02-14T13:14:44 < qyx> but still 2.7V min
2021-02-14T13:15:00 < zyp> tca9802 can do 1.8/1.8
2021-02-14T13:16:24 < qyx> hm, powered off high impedance
2021-02-14T13:16:25 < qyx> yeah
2021-02-14T13:17:12 < zyp> hmm, poking at registers, DWT_CTRL doesn't have any of the enables set, so I suspect the init script stuff that came with orbuculum doesn't work properly
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2021-02-14T13:58:57 < mawk> so is there any special procedure qyx?
2021-02-14T13:59:21 < mawk> __HAL_SPI_ENABLE(), transmit, optionally pulse CS, receive, __HAL_SPI_DISABLE
2021-02-14T13:59:25 < mawk> this is what I do
2021-02-14T13:59:39 < mawk> but after enabling spi it starting shitting out 80 0xFF bytes on the bus
2021-02-14T13:59:44 < mawk> which I never asked for
2021-02-14T14:02:05 < qyx> so you are doing something wrong
2021-02-14T14:02:16 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T14:02:17 < Steffanx> Yes, why are you doing that?
2021-02-14T14:02:20 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T14:02:28 < mawk> but it's a plain unmodified generated cubemx thing
2021-02-14T14:02:38 < qyx> oh thats the wrong thing
2021-02-14T14:02:44 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T14:02:47 < qyx> don't you have hardware nss or what
2021-02-14T14:02:50 < mawk> yes
2021-02-14T14:02:55 < mawk> there's hw nss
2021-02-14T14:02:55 < qyx> why
2021-02-14T14:03:06 < mawk> what do you mean?
2021-02-14T14:03:14 < mawk> I use the hw nss yes
2021-02-14T14:03:42 < qyx> isn't the thing generating clock all day long if you do that?
2021-02-14T14:03:47 < qyx> or do I remember something wrong?
2021-02-14T14:03:56 < mawk> that would be weird, but maybe
2021-02-14T14:04:17 < mawk> I'll read the rm when I'm not in a train anymore
2021-02-14T14:04:35 < mawk> pdf on mobile never works quite properly
2021-02-14T14:04:46 < qyx> it is written everywhere, never use hw nss in master mode
2021-02-14T14:05:00 < mawk> why
2021-02-14T14:05:08 < mawk> it worked fine in duplex
2021-02-14T14:05:17 < mawk> confirmed with LA
2021-02-14T14:05:24 < mawk> it's only in half duplex it's doing this weird clock thing
2021-02-14T14:05:29 < qyx> idk, maybe saying bullshit
2021-02-14T14:06:01 < rajkosto> hw nss is fine on spi v2 though
2021-02-14T14:06:12 < rajkosto> and prevents requiring to wait for the data to be transferred before toggling the gpio manually
2021-02-14T14:06:34 < mawk> what do you mean by spiv2
2021-02-14T14:06:43 < rajkosto> 2nd gen spi impl
2021-02-14T14:06:43 < mawk> like CPOL = 1 CPHA = 1?
2021-02-14T14:06:45 < mawk> ah
2021-02-14T14:06:46 < qyx> on a recent spi
2021-02-14T14:06:53 < mawk> well this is recent spi
2021-02-14T14:06:54 < qyx> which stm32 are you using
2021-02-14T14:06:58 < mawk> l432kc
2021-02-14T14:07:07 < qyx> thats the v2
2021-02-14T14:07:10 < mawk> good
2021-02-14T14:08:24 < rajkosto> i think i had the same thing and you have to configure the bits and pump data in a specific order
2021-02-14T14:08:36 < rajkosto> otherwise it would always read data until the read buffer is full
2021-02-14T14:08:44 < rajkosto> as soon as you enable it
2021-02-14T14:23:29 < qyx> I am curious if I can leave power good output floating if it is open drain
2021-02-14T14:24:08 < qyx> in TI they say Yes, PG is an open-drain which can be floating if no use.
2021-02-14T14:24:39  * qyx removing pullups for the greater good
2021-02-14T14:27:41 < mawk> that might be it rajkosto 
2021-02-14T14:27:49 < mawk> sounds like exactly the problem I have
2021-02-14T14:28:13 < qyx> 60 uA saved
2021-02-14T14:28:23 < mawk> anyway you never have to pull outputs right?
2021-02-14T14:28:28 < mawk> what's wrong with floating them
2021-02-14T14:28:43 < mawk> they're high impedance, they don't care what happens behind the pin
2021-02-14T14:28:53 < mawk> low impedance
2021-02-14T14:28:55 < mawk> whatever
2021-02-14T14:28:59 < mawk> there's a buffer
2021-02-14T14:29:15 < qyx> if you are copy pasting ref schematics like crazy to get things done
2021-02-14T14:29:23 < qyx> you don't think about such things
2021-02-14T14:29:29 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T14:29:42 < mawk> I wish I could do pcb stuff at work
2021-02-14T14:29:52 < mawk> but they leave all the cool jobs to the interns
2021-02-14T14:30:02 < mawk> regular devs have to maintain old shit
2021-02-14T14:30:19 < qyx> because senior they have important jobs
2021-02-14T14:30:28 < mawk> an intern is doing a Wi-Fi controlled LED matrix with esp32, that sounds fun
2021-02-14T14:30:36 < mawk> maintaining nodejs 4.x code isn't fun
2021-02-14T14:30:49 < mawk> yeah maybe, but I want to have fun at my job, I don't really care about the money
2021-02-14T14:30:56 < mawk> as long as I'm not evicted from my apartment
2021-02-14T14:31:36 < qyx> you can still go to you .ua girl
2021-02-14T14:31:42 < qyx> *your
2021-02-14T14:32:21 < mawk> job is 26.8% of life, and probably more since you think about it outside hours
2021-02-14T14:32:31 < mawk> yeah but I don't see her often
2021-02-14T14:32:37 < Steffanx> So dont do that, mawk
2021-02-14T14:32:40 < mawk> her husband keeps her locked up
2021-02-14T14:32:43 < mawk> do what
2021-02-14T14:32:49 < Steffanx> Think about work
2021-02-14T14:32:54 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T14:33:03 < mawk> then it's 26.8% of life
2021-02-14T14:33:11 < mawk> and it happens during the best hours of awake time
2021-02-14T14:33:15 < Steffanx> Retire at age 40
2021-02-14T14:33:19 < mawk> so the perceived percentage is higher
2021-02-14T14:33:20 < mawk> maybe
2021-02-14T14:33:29 < mawk> I'll go grow some hemp in Goa 
2021-02-14T14:33:37 < mawk> or raise goats in Larzac
2021-02-14T14:34:02 < Steffanx> Maybe a pig farm?
2021-02-14T14:34:05 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T14:34:11 < mawk> that will keep the bearded men away
2021-02-14T14:34:14 < mawk> good idea
2021-02-14T14:34:19 < mawk> I almost died Steffanx 
2021-02-14T14:34:23 < Steffanx> Reminds me of what showed up in my aliexpess search:
2021-02-14T14:34:24 < mawk> I did skate-free ice skating
2021-02-14T14:34:29 < mawk> but I didn't fall in the end
2021-02-14T14:34:35 < mawk> the people laughing behind me were disappointed
2021-02-14T14:35:18 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/zoMACGQ
2021-02-14T14:35:49 < mawk> lol wtf
2021-02-14T14:36:00 < mawk> "punish pigs if they drink sperm from the extractor" ?
2021-02-14T14:36:06 < mawk> that's the takeaway?
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2021-02-14T14:37:46 < Steffanx> I have no idea lol
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2021-02-14T14:42:41 < mawk> have you ice-skated?
2021-02-14T14:42:54 < mawk> have you abandoned the idea of sending me your riglol :'( ?
2021-02-14T14:45:56 < englishman> have you abandoned the idea of using your moneyed westerner salary and buying one?
2021-02-14T14:46:04 < englishman> (instead of buying drugs(
2021-02-14T14:46:04 < Steffanx> No, no.
2021-02-14T14:46:38 < Steffanx> I offered him to send mine, englishman 
2021-02-14T14:47:10 < Steffanx> But lazy or something 
2021-02-14T14:47:55 < qyx> in .nl you must be earning monthly the same as we do over the entire year
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2021-02-14T14:48:43 < Steffanx> Unlikely qyx 
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2021-02-14T14:50:58 < mawk> I earn 2300€/month after income and social tax
2021-02-14T14:51:12 < mawk> but 1050€ rent, 120€ health, food, ex gf to support, etc
2021-02-14T14:51:28 < Steffanx> Ex gf to support. Wut
2021-02-14T14:51:36 < mawk> she still lives in my apartment
2021-02-14T14:51:41 < mawk> so I buy her food
2021-02-14T14:51:54 < Steffanx> Why that is your issue?
2021-02-14T14:52:00 < mawk> I'm not a monster
2021-02-14T14:52:05 < mawk> she would starve
2021-02-14T14:52:12 < qyx> she should buy you food for living in your apartment
2021-02-14T14:52:32 < Steffanx> She doesn't...
2021-02-14T14:53:24 < qyx> btw what is available in .fr for 1050€?
2021-02-14T14:53:33 < Steffanx> Cant she find a job mr mawk?
2021-02-14T14:53:50 < effractur> 1050 is quite high for rent tbh
2021-02-14T14:53:54 < effractur> if you only earn 2300
2021-02-14T14:54:06 < Steffanx> Yes, mawk is crazy. It is known
2021-02-14T14:54:42 < englishman> not so bad if it includes heat and electricity
2021-02-14T14:54:42 < qyx> here we earn 1000-2000€ after taxes for the better paid jobs and rents are about 600-900€
2021-02-14T14:55:21 < englishman> and you have cool ass mountains
2021-02-14T14:55:26 < englishman> dutchland has no mountains
2021-02-14T14:55:47 < qyx> if you are out of IT/industry, you are happy with 700-900€
2021-02-14T14:55:58 < mawk> in paris something like 30m² qyx
2021-02-14T14:56:03 < mawk> in delft too as it turns out
2021-02-14T14:56:12 < mawk> it's 35m² where I live
2021-02-14T14:56:18 < mawk> it's expensive to be in center
2021-02-14T14:56:56 < qyx> hm, we had 38m2 for 400€ monthly
2021-02-14T14:57:15 < qyx> western prices
2021-02-14T14:58:59 < Steffanx> Nah  our rental market is sick.. 
2021-02-14T15:06:54 < Steffanx> Maybe the entire house market shit
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2021-02-14T15:24:02 < mawk> it doesn't include anything englishman 
2021-02-14T15:24:10 < mawk> electricity and water and internet are an additional 300 or so
2021-02-14T15:24:49 < Steffanx> oh dear
2021-02-14T15:25:10 < Steffanx> Time to find yourself a gf that pays rent too
2021-02-14T15:26:15 < englishman> so its 1300€/month for a flat the size of my kitchen
2021-02-14T15:27:06 < englishman> i dont even pay that much for the entire property including heat
2021-02-14T15:27:17 < Steffanx> but youre in the middle of nowhere of canada
2021-02-14T15:27:32 < englishman> i wouldnt say that, its still just 18 minutes to work
2021-02-14T15:28:01 < englishman> that is a shorter commute than i had in the city
2021-02-14T15:28:08 < Steffanx> and not a metropolis like Delft.
2021-02-14T15:29:20 < zyp> sounds expensive
2021-02-14T15:29:22 < Steffanx> All the cheaper apartments will be taken by students.
2021-02-14T15:29:30 < effractur> mawk: so yea time to move :P
2021-02-14T15:29:43 < effractur> i pay less for something bigger :P
2021-02-14T15:29:50 < Steffanx> im pretty sure that is easier said than done..
2021-02-14T15:30:29 < zyp> I paid €620 in rent before I bought a house
2021-02-14T15:31:07 < zyp> or maybe it was €680
2021-02-14T15:31:32 < effractur> if you want to live in the city center it can be hard indeed
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2021-02-14T15:34:53 < Steffanx> lol good luck with finding something reasonable for that here zyp  :)
2021-02-14T15:36:00 < zyp> oh, first salary from $newjob arrived too
2021-02-14T15:36:13 < zyp> apparently €4200 after taxes
2021-02-14T15:36:22 < zyp> but I'm not sure how correct the tax deduction is
2021-02-14T15:37:38 < effractur> zyp: in NL?
2021-02-14T15:37:51 < zyp> NO
2021-02-14T15:45:15 < englishman> hmm delft is quite small
2021-02-14T15:45:47 < Steffanx> Every city in dutchland is..
2021-02-14T15:46:13 < englishman> that's a good salary, i expect a new electric vehicle to be purchased somewhere in .no soon
2021-02-14T15:47:10 < zyp> I've got a few other things higher up on the budget, but yeah, I've started looking
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2021-02-14T15:49:09 < Steffanx> Another poop generator?
2021-02-14T15:49:27 < englishman> here we call them unskilled labourers
2021-02-14T15:50:52 < zyp> hmm, tax deduction seems roughly correct
2021-02-14T15:53:01 < zyp> bit high if I worked a whole normal year, but I've got contractor income from january that I owe taxes on anyway
2021-02-14T15:53:41 < Steffanx> Isnt that up to your employer to do correctly?
2021-02-14T15:54:48 < zyp> tax deduction? employer just deducts according to my «tax card» which they get from the tax authority
2021-02-14T15:55:44 < zyp> and I decide what numbers go on that by providing the tax authority with estimates of how much I'm gonna earn and which tax breaks I'm gonna be entitled to
2021-02-14T15:55:55  * qyx moving to .no
2021-02-14T15:59:38 < zyp> normally people get a «table» tax card, where the employer looks up your gross salary in a table to find how much to deduct
2021-02-14T16:00:14 < zyp> and then there's a few different tables you can get assigned depending on how much you expect to get in tax breaks
2021-02-14T16:01:01 < zyp> but it's not very precise, so it generally overestimates a little to avoid people owing back taxes
2021-02-14T16:02:01 < zyp> I prefer not paying too much and getting them back at the tax return half a year later, so I generally recalculate mine every summer
2021-02-14T16:02:27 < zyp> and then I get another tax card telling the employer to deduct according to a fixed percentage
2021-02-14T16:03:29 < englishman> i don't like having tax deducted, it means you give the government a year-long loan at zero interest
2021-02-14T16:03:40 < zyp> exactly
2021-02-14T16:03:47 < zyp> well, we actually get interest on it
2021-02-14T16:03:54 < zyp> but it's very low
2021-02-14T16:04:10 < englishman> that's much more fair than just taking it
2021-02-14T16:04:44 < englishman> is mortgage interest tax-deductible in .no?
2021-02-14T16:04:48 < zyp> yes
2021-02-14T16:04:59 < zyp> it's my biggest tax break
2021-02-14T16:05:00 < englishman> cool, that changes a lot
2021-02-14T16:05:29 < zyp> actually all debt interest is deductible
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2021-02-14T16:05:35 < englishman> really
2021-02-14T16:05:42 < zyp> but you also have to pay taxes on all interest income
2021-02-14T16:05:51 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I find orbuculum's gbd init bullshit to be very fragile, I don't use any of it, just let oocd do the right thing.
2021-02-14T16:05:51 < zyp> so it evens out
2021-02-14T16:06:11 < karlp> it seems to be carry over from back inteh day when some of those people thought the "right" way of doing it was on the target itself.
2021-02-14T16:06:13 < englishman> sure, but interest income is capital gains tax, if you borrow money to buy a commodity, idk a fridge, it's deductible?
2021-02-14T16:06:18 < zyp> karlp, I'm not usin oocd, but I figure I'll just write my own stuff
2021-02-14T16:07:01 < englishman> loan interest is tax deductible here but only if the loan is used to purchase investments paying dividends
2021-02-14T16:07:44 < Ultrasauce> clearly a policy designed to benefit all citizens equally
2021-02-14T16:09:08 < englishman> also rifle silencers are unregulated and can be purchased by anyone
2021-02-14T16:09:11 < englishman> moving to .no
2021-02-14T16:09:47 < Laurenceb> muh gunz
2021-02-14T16:11:58 < antto> https://videogamena.me/
2021-02-14T16:12:15 < zyp> when I bought the house I actually borrowed some money from a friend who made a bunch on bitcoin too, and the interest I'm paying him is also deductible
2021-02-14T16:12:55 < zyp> I report it as a deduction, he reports it to pay additional tax on it
2021-02-14T16:13:45 < zyp> so in that sense it evens out
2021-02-14T16:14:06 < zyp> it's a net zero for the state
2021-02-14T16:19:38 < englishman> for anyone interested, the SPIE 2021 salary survey report was released this week http://spie.org/Documents/CareerCenter/2021-Global-Salary-Report.pdf
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2021-02-14T16:23:50 < qyx> we are not even in the document
2021-02-14T16:23:58 < qyx> only in the footer :D
2021-02-14T16:25:17 < englishman> not a huge optics industry i guess?
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2021-02-14T17:27:22 < mawk> re
2021-02-14T17:27:33 < mawk> I saw .ua grrl
2021-02-14T17:29:39 < mawk> for valentine's day apparently
2021-02-14T17:29:44 < mawk> not on purpose
2021-02-14T17:32:01 < Steffanx> Ok thanks for the info 
2021-02-14T17:40:48 < mawk> you're welcome
2021-02-14T17:41:04 < mawk> I gave her a rpi
2021-02-14T17:41:11 < mawk> to serve as wifi repeater
2021-02-14T17:43:22 < PaulFertser> "repeater"
2021-02-14T17:44:30  * PaulFertser is so tired of people asking again and again about how they "range extend" or "repeat" wifi...
2021-02-14T17:45:40 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T17:45:57 < mawk> I will use 4-address mode on it
2021-02-14T17:46:02 < mawk> for seamless roaming and stuff
2021-02-14T17:46:32 < mawk> I put a wireguard tunnel as well and nginx server
2021-02-14T17:46:49 < mawk> so she can drop in stuff in /var/www/html and it's immediately accessible from internet
2021-02-14T17:46:54 < mawk> as a gentle intro to sysadmin
2021-02-14T17:47:00 < mawk> so she gets a better job
2021-02-14T17:47:13 < PaulFertser> mawk: for seamless roaming you might also want 
2021-02-14T17:47:18 < PaulFertser> 802.11r
2021-02-14T17:47:25 < mawk> 802.11k/r/d ?
2021-02-14T17:47:26 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T17:48:03 < PaulFertser> 4-address mode makes plenty of sense, too bad it's not part of the standard.
2021-02-14T17:49:06 < mawk> yeah it's dependant on the other router sadly
2021-02-14T17:49:19 < PaulFertser> For those uninitiated, Linux softmac drivers all can add additional address in the frame header and this way allows bridging of a wireless STA/client interface.
2021-02-14T17:49:33 < PaulFertser> And of course it needs to be supported by both parts of the link.
2021-02-14T17:50:03 < PaulFertser> A more standard option would be 802.11s, but somehow many crippled firmwares do not let users enable it.
2021-02-14T17:50:15 < mawk> what is that already?
2021-02-14T17:50:20 < PaulFertser> mesh
2021-02-14T17:50:36 < mawk> ah yes
2021-02-14T17:50:47 < PaulFertser> Since mesh node can be bridge it makes sense even for a p2p link.
2021-02-14T17:51:33 < Steffanx> Will you spy on igor now, mawk?
2021-02-14T17:51:38 < mawk> yes
2021-02-14T17:51:41 < mawk> lol no
2021-02-14T17:51:44 < mawk> I'm not like that
2021-02-14T17:51:58 < Steffanx> Nooo....
2021-02-14T17:52:12 < mawk> you're the most stalker of us two
2021-02-14T17:52:27 < Steffanx> Suuure
2021-02-14T17:52:46 < mawk> who have I stalked recently?
2021-02-14T17:54:46 < Steffanx> What kind of question is that
2021-02-14T18:07:46 < mawk> it's evidence request
2021-02-14T18:07:52 < mawk> for your claims
2021-02-14T18:08:08 < mawk> I am a privacy lover
2021-02-14T18:08:15 < mawk> and even for others
2021-02-14T18:08:36 < mawk> if a girlfriend reads my phone I kick her out immediately, but also I would never read her phone either
2021-02-14T18:09:31 < mawk> we went on a frozen canal in Weesp Steffanx 
2021-02-14T18:09:37 < mawk> people were ice skating
2021-02-14T18:09:45 < mawk> me I was just trying to not die by slipping
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2021-02-14T19:10:42 < Steffanx> Dont you have goth spikes mawk?
2021-02-14T19:10:50 < mawk> lol no
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2021-02-14T19:22:43 < kakium69> mikrotik pros?
2021-02-14T19:22:58 < kakium69> NAT page is empty in webfig
2021-02-14T19:23:19 < kakium69> but I checked NAT in quickset
2021-02-14T19:24:21 < mawk> show screenshot kakium69 
2021-02-14T19:24:46 < R2COM> mikrotik?
2021-02-14T19:24:51 < R2COM> is it that baltic router?
2021-02-14T19:24:56 < kakium69> ye
2021-02-14T19:25:01 < R2COM> its cool stuff
2021-02-14T19:25:28 < kakium69> mawk: it's not online currently :/
2021-02-14T19:25:41 < mawk> ah
2021-02-14T19:25:47 < mawk> describe your config then
2021-02-14T19:25:55 < mawk> and tell why you think Nat doesn't work
2021-02-14T19:27:44 < kakium69> i think it works
2021-02-14T19:27:49 < kakium69> I went to internets
2021-02-14T19:28:11 < mawk> good
2021-02-14T19:28:41 < kakium69> but when I go to routing->nat or so in webfig I expected to find nat configured
2021-02-14T19:28:51 < kakium69> instead there is just empty list and ADD button
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2021-02-14T19:33:37 < kakium69> in my edgerouter I go to nat page it has "masquerade" there
2021-02-14T19:33:57 < kakium69> one nat configured with masquerade action
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2021-02-14T19:42:28 < jadew> mawk, what do you have to hide in your phone that your gf can't see?
2021-02-14T19:42:34 < jadew> it seems suspicious
2021-02-14T19:43:02 < PaulFertser> Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey!
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2021-02-14T19:44:32 < Steffanx> Your dick pics, jadew? ;)
2021-02-14T19:44:43 < jadew> Steffanx, she already received those
2021-02-14T19:44:51 < jadew> oh, on mawk's phone?
2021-02-14T19:44:53 < jadew> haha
2021-02-14T19:44:56 < jadew> yeah
2021-02-14T19:47:53 < jadew> other than messages from other women, there's nothing that can get you in trouble, or that you should be defensive about
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2021-02-14T20:13:26 < mawk> jadew: porn videos for instance
2021-02-14T20:13:32 < mawk> I don't want my women to discover my taste in porn
2021-02-14T20:13:34 < mawk> that's private stuff
2021-02-14T20:13:38 < mawk> or memes I browse
2021-02-14T20:13:41 < mawk> or whatever else
2021-02-14T20:13:51 < mawk> like politics I'm reading that don't align with theirs
2021-02-14T20:13:55 < mawk> some things ought to be stay private
2021-02-14T20:14:22 < mawk> even if it's not really dangerous to have, it's a really important part of sanity to be able to have private things when you live with someone
2021-02-14T20:22:40 < BrainDamage> i agree 100% with mawk, the 'you have nothing to hide' argument is extremely naive and ignores both practical and psychological sides
2021-02-14T20:23:38 < BrainDamage> also, remember, just because something might be ok now, it might not be in the future
2021-02-14T20:26:49 < Laurenceb> he has messages to Russian grrrl
2021-02-14T20:27:08 < mawk> yes
2021-02-14T20:27:20 < mawk> but behind fingerprint auth
2021-02-14T20:27:22 < mawk> 100% hidden
2021-02-14T20:27:32 < mawk> also encrypted with master password
2021-02-14T20:27:37 < mawk> so if the phone is off, can't be extracted from memory
2021-02-14T20:28:01 < Laurenceb>  "I'll simp for you anytime"
2021-02-14T20:28:06 < mawk> lol what
2021-02-14T20:28:27 < BrainDamage> biometrics are "secrets" you leave around everywere and you can't revoke
2021-02-14T20:28:38 < BrainDamage> and yes, the double meaning is intended
2021-02-14T20:29:10 < mawk> yeah it's mostly for convenience
2021-02-14T20:29:16 < mawk> that's why there's non-biometric master password
2021-02-14T20:29:51 < BrainDamage> I have sudo ask for fingerprint swipe insead of my user pw
2021-02-14T20:30:12 < BrainDamage> i figured if I typed my pw everytime I'd chose a shitty one
2021-02-14T20:30:21 < mawk> I just disabled sudo password
2021-02-14T20:30:37 < BrainDamage> it's good as a sanity check
2021-02-14T20:30:50 < mawk> I have FDE so I figured I don't really need extra passwords
2021-02-14T20:30:58 < BrainDamage> as in, think twice before doing this
2021-02-14T20:32:09 < englishman> mawk is a romantic https://i.redd.it/u7ixsjrdkdh61.jpg
2021-02-14T20:32:24 < mawk> lol
2021-02-14T20:32:51 < BrainDamage> classy af
2021-02-14T20:40:01 < qyx> I don't have sudo
2021-02-14T20:41:32 < BrainDamage> i use sudo feature of per-command permissions with some users, like backup, etc
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2021-02-14T21:10:41 < jadew> BrainDamage, don't know... I don't have porn on my phone
2021-02-14T21:11:04 < BrainDamage> i wasn't talking about porn
2021-02-14T21:11:05 < jadew> just some smut from whatsapp but I regularly show it to my wife anyway
2021-02-14T21:11:16 < jadew> nothing else there is a secret
2021-02-14T21:11:48 < jadew> having secrets sucks
2021-02-14T21:11:55 < BrainDamage> not even your bank pw?
2021-02-14T21:11:56 < jadew> especially in a relationship
2021-02-14T21:12:10 < jadew> not even
2021-02-14T21:12:18 < jadew> my email password is secret
2021-02-14T21:12:28 < jadew> but she can access my email because it's not protected on my pc
2021-02-14T21:12:32 < jadew> or my phone
2021-02-14T21:12:47 < jadew> in fact, I often ask her to go through it to look for shit
2021-02-14T21:12:53 < jadew> (when I need something)
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2021-02-14T21:13:24 < jadew> the password I keep secret because it's a password... I am that way
2021-02-14T21:13:27 < BrainDamage> that's a bit naive tho, if she were to ever leave you, she can do a lot of amage
2021-02-14T21:13:49 < jadew> like what? erase my e-mail?
2021-02-14T21:13:54 < jadew> I have backups
2021-02-14T21:14:10 < BrainDamage> your email is the central auth for ... everything
2021-02-14T21:14:28 < BrainDamage> from bank to google to whatever
2021-02-14T21:14:44 < BrainDamage> all you have to do is click "i forgot my pw"
2021-02-14T21:14:50 < jadew> yeah, I don't know, I trust my wife, if I felt things were going south, I guess I would protect myself
2021-02-14T21:15:15 < BrainDamage> thing is, once things are gone south, she's already in position to do damage
2021-02-14T21:15:34 < qyx> idk, do you have wife?
2021-02-14T21:16:17 < jadew> I'm really not that worried about those things, if the relationship were to fall apart, my e-mail would be the least of my concerns
2021-02-14T21:16:25 < qyx> I was about to say
2021-02-14T21:16:54 < Steffanx> Your password is the name of your kid.. and its hard to change the name of the kid :P
2021-02-14T21:24:00 < zyp> my wife doesn't know my passwords either, not because I don't trust her but because they are passwords and there's no reason she should know them
2021-02-14T21:30:03 < jadew> Steffanx, my dad used to have my name as his password, and when he remarried, he changed it to the name of the kid of his new wife...
2021-02-14T21:30:15 < zyp> aww
2021-02-14T21:38:03 < zyp> hmm, poking at the ITM/DWT/TPIU registers now, looks like stuff is enabled, but something is blocking it from getting output
2021-02-14T21:50:23 < qyx> zyp: you mentioned you are kindergartening?
2021-02-14T21:51:12 < zyp> hmm?
2021-02-14T21:51:42 < qyx> hows that thing called in proper english
2021-02-14T21:52:10 < qyx> yeah kindergarten
2021-02-14T21:52:22 < zyp> kid's in kindergarten, yes
2021-02-14T21:52:30 < qyx> since what age?
2021-02-14T21:52:46 < zyp> since the month she turned one, started a few weeks before
2021-02-14T21:52:59 < qyx> interesting
2021-02-14T21:53:22 < zyp> she's born in august, new kindergarten term also starts in august, so she started in the beginning of the month
2021-02-14T21:58:11 < zyp> hmm, why the fuck am I still getting no swo output
2021-02-14T22:02:43 < qyx> I started connecting it on my new boards but never used it
2021-02-14T22:10:36 < zyp> oh fuck
2021-02-14T22:10:49 < zyp> there's more shit in DBGMCU as well to enable SWO
2021-02-14T22:13:16 < Laurenceb> trust the plan lad blimpf is gonna take down the deep state from inside his cell like in law abiding citizen
2021-02-14T22:13:23 < zyp> right, now the scope is seeing 4mbaud shit on the swo line
2021-02-14T22:14:47 < qyx> is it just an ~usart?
2021-02-14T22:16:11 < zyp> swo can do NRZ or manchester, I think NRZ mode is like a uart output
2021-02-14T22:20:05 < karlp> yeah, you can use a uart to receive it if yo like.
2021-02-14T22:20:32 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-14T22:20:48 < karlp> isn't bmp made to be magical?
2021-02-14T22:20:51 < zyp> I'm seeing ITM data on scope now, but I don't seem to be getting anything in orbuculum
2021-02-14T22:20:55 < karlp> this should be "just working" ?
2021-02-14T22:21:24 < karlp> well, orbuculum itself does ... nothing
2021-02-14T22:21:28 < zyp> idk
2021-02-14T22:21:35 < karlp> you want orbcat or something to actually look at it.
2021-02-14T22:21:51 < karlp> orbuculum just listens and handles socket multiplexing so you can hve multiple access to it.
2021-02-14T22:21:55 < zyp> yeah, I've got orbuculum and orbcat running, I don't see anything anywhere
2021-02-14T22:22:11 < karlp> orbcat -c0,%c -c1,"my binary channel1 is %d" 
2021-02-14T22:22:14  * karlp shrugs
2021-02-14T22:22:20 < karlp> that's all you need with oocd...
2021-02-14T22:23:23 < zyp> what flags does orbuculum itself need?
2021-02-14T22:23:35 < karlp> with oocd, I point it to the file that oocd is writing.
2021-02-14T22:23:41 < karlp> no idea about bmp sorry
2021-02-14T22:24:27 < zyp> it does «Opening USB Device» «USB Device opened» without any particular flags, but I haven't told it which USB device to open, and it's also not telling me
2021-02-14T22:25:11 < karlp>  -p /dev/serial/by-id/your bmp-swo port?
2021-02-14T22:25:27 < zyp> IIRC it's not serial, it's plain bulk
2021-02-14T22:26:58 < zyp> heh, it's very hardcoded
2021-02-14T22:27:05 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/blob/main/Src/orbuculum.c#L118
2021-02-14T22:28:36 < karlp> oh, right, yeah, that's the sort of weird bits in it.
2021-02-14T22:28:45 < karlp> it's like, again, it's the best, but it's not very good still.
2021-02-14T22:28:52 < karlp> also, damn that code style is horrific
2021-02-14T22:29:13 < karlp> yeah, I don't run in into any of that as I just let be a mux and feed it the binary file frrom oocd
2021-02-14T22:30:57  * qyx is gazing at those spaces from the inside of parentheses
2021-02-14T22:43:59 < Steffanx> Damn it. i should learn to organize my shit better. Got an unfinished project of 2 years ago, but i forgot most of it. "lost" the book marks and did not save the external documentation in a proper place -_-
2021-02-14T22:44:48 < Laurenceb> Trump told you you'd get tired of winning. He didn't say who would be winning, that wasn't specified, just winning, you'd get tired of it.
2021-02-14T22:54:57 < Steffanx> thanks Laurenceb 
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2021-02-14T23:02:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.the-medium-is-not-enough.com/images/Cu9bGS7XgAEYIxq.jpg
2021-02-14T23:05:00 < Steffanx> when is your birthday Laurenceb ?
2021-02-14T23:05:15 < Laurenceb> secrit
2021-02-14T23:05:27 < t4nk_freenode> and who is your psychiatrist?
2021-02-14T23:05:47 < Steffanx> its not secret Laurenceb . you mum knows it
2021-02-14T23:06:11 < BrainDamage> maybe you should switch career, there's journalists that trudge over social media constantly in search of anything interesting, you could do your stm32 blogging, but paid
2021-02-14T23:07:00 < t4nk_freenode> that's assuming sth interesting is involved
2021-02-14T23:07:50 < BrainDamage> ofc not, but he'd realize nobody cares once he gets fired from multiple places
2021-02-14T23:08:03 < BrainDamage> and in the meantime he'd be too busy to post on stm32
2021-02-14T23:08:29 < Steffanx> BrainDamage's evil plans :D
2021-02-14T23:09:26 < BrainDamage> I don't need evil plans, people are sufficiently stupid to do evil to themselves
2021-02-14T23:10:33 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, just look around in the world
2021-02-14T23:10:34 -!- jadew [~rcc@unaffiliated/jadew] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-14T23:11:16 < BrainDamage> I went to a restaurant up a mountain after it snowed for the past few days and froze solid, the statistics of people climbing and falling because the lack of crampons was insane
2021-02-14T23:12:15 < qyx> do you have restaurants opened?
2021-02-14T23:12:37 < BrainDamage> yes, only recently
2021-02-14T23:12:45 < BrainDamage> and they might close them again soon
2021-02-14T23:12:54 < qyx> we are doing italy now instead of you
2021-02-14T23:12:56 < BrainDamage> so people jumped at the chance
2021-02-14T23:14:12 < qyx> imagine how empty are villages like livigno now
2021-02-14T23:14:34 < BrainDamage> there's a fierce debate over ski resorts
2021-02-14T23:14:46 < BrainDamage> they reopened for ... 2 days
2021-02-14T23:14:57 < BrainDamage> and they want to close them again
2021-02-14T23:15:16 < qyx> we had them opened when there was no snow
2021-02-14T23:15:27 < mawk> this spi half-duplex stuff is awful
2021-02-14T23:15:44 < mawk> I'm considering just doing transmit only
2021-02-14T23:15:51 < mawk> just send data and not check status registers
2021-02-14T23:15:58 < mawk> that's what the official lib for the device does anyway
2021-02-14T23:15:59 < BrainDamage> dual channel spi
2021-02-14T23:16:19 < mawk> the issue is with receive only modes on stm32
2021-02-14T23:16:28 < mawk> it does some weird stuff with enabling clock all the time
2021-02-14T23:16:32 < mawk> or reading too much data
2021-02-14T23:16:50 < mawk> then it borks the device and the device starts pulling down CS which is super weird
2021-02-14T23:16:54 < qyx> ok I fixed the invensense thing, apparentnly it doesn't like empty fifo, do I have dejavu?
2021-02-14T23:17:31 < qyx> I was raging recently about something not willing to cooperate
2021-02-14T23:17:57 -!- k\o\w [~k\o\w@cpe708ea3a28aba-cm589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-02-14T23:18:42 < qyx> ##covid32 we are first now thanks to portugal https://img.projektn.sk/wp-static/2021/02/coronavirus-data-explorer-8.png?fm=jpg&q=85&w=586
2021-02-14T23:18:51 < BrainDamage> still better than i2c where clock stretching can hold SCL indefinetly
2021-02-14T23:19:09 < BrainDamage> the offiicial spec has no timeout
2021-02-14T23:19:09 < Steffanx> dutchland isnt even in the list qyx .. 
2021-02-14T23:19:52 < mawk> I sent the maximum receive fifo to 8 bits, but then a receive call of just 1 byte reads 2 bytes
2021-02-14T23:19:58 < mawk> and it makes the device go crazy
2021-02-14T23:20:35 < mawk> this is so annoying
2021-02-14T23:20:41 < mawk> I'm legit considering bitbanging spi to solve it
2021-02-14T23:20:52 < qyx> also, why are you clock master in both tx and rx?
2021-02-14T23:21:33 < qyx> you wil probably always generate clock if you switch to rx only, clock out
2021-02-14T23:21:57 < qyx> maybe depending on the nss if configured properly
2021-02-14T23:22:05 < mawk> shouldn't I output the clock for read?
2021-02-14T23:22:09 < qyx> cannot you just connect miso and mosi together?
2021-02-14T23:22:25 < mawk> yes maybe that would work
2021-02-14T23:22:43 < qyx> I was doing that
2021-02-14T23:23:03 < qyx> but also I was either data tx, clock tx or data rx, clock rx
2021-02-14T23:23:18 < mawk> clock rx so as slave?
2021-02-14T23:23:29 < mawk> I'm not sure this is the case with my device
2021-02-14T23:23:29 < qyx> yes, but that was totally different use case
2021-02-14T23:23:31 < mawk> ah
2021-02-14T23:23:53 < qyx> (it also solves lagging clock during rx on long buses)
2021-02-14T23:24:26 < mawk> I tie MISO and MOSI together, but then disable one pin so MOSI isn't shorted when the device is transmitting?
2021-02-14T23:25:09 < qyx> did you check if theres a microwire stm32 implementation?
2021-02-14T23:25:17 < mawk> microwire?
2021-02-14T23:25:31 < mawk> ah
2021-02-14T23:26:01 < qyx> ok no
2021-02-14T23:26:07 < qyx> microwire is a different thing
2021-02-14T23:26:11 < qyx> 3-wire SPI they call it
2021-02-14T23:26:30 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T23:26:52 < mawk> well that's what half-duplex is supposed to be
2021-02-14T23:27:13 < mawk> probably tying pins together like you said would work
2021-02-14T23:27:26 < mawk> if I'm careful to never let the device transmit when MOSI isn't floating
2021-02-14T23:28:05 < qyx> cannot you switch miso/mosi in software?
2021-02-14T23:28:51 < qyx> how do you even configure your halfduplex spi?
2021-02-14T23:28:54 < BrainDamage> standard spi has miso and mosi spitting out the data at the same time on clock edge
2021-02-14T23:28:56 < mawk> I haven't seen anything for that in register
2021-02-14T23:29:06 < mawk> (switching the pins)
2021-02-14T23:29:09 < qyx> wat
2021-02-14T23:29:13 < qyx> oh
2021-02-14T23:29:17 < BrainDamage> how does it work there? is it interleaved?
2021-02-14T23:29:29 < BrainDamage> or do you send a whole block of data?
2021-02-14T23:29:40 < mawk> no BrainDamage , it's that I transmit a command , then I receive data
2021-02-14T23:29:54 < BrainDamage> so data blocks
2021-02-14T23:29:57 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-14T23:30:06 < zyp> remember that there's multiple versions of the SPI peripheral, and I think maybe bidir mode was one of the things that were different between them
2021-02-14T23:30:13 < mawk> it's exactly as if MOSI and MISO are tied together on the device
2021-02-14T23:30:28 < mawk> if I just read without transmitting, so MOSI is configured as input, then I can read data
2021-02-14T23:30:30 < qyx> L4 has bidi
2021-02-14T23:30:35 < qyx> thats why I am asking
2021-02-14T23:30:53 < mawk> before enabling the peripheral I select between TX and RX
2021-02-14T23:31:03 < mawk> using the bidirectionnal flag in control register
2021-02-14T23:32:05 < BrainDamage> is your bus "high speed"? if not consider adding some series resistors to protect from shorts during testing
2021-02-14T23:32:22 < mawk> just a MHz, yeah that's a good idea
--- Day changed Mon Feb 15 2021
2021-02-15T00:00:14 < PaulFertser> DIY SARS-CoV-2 vaccine: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/niQ3heWwF6SydhS7R/making-vaccine
2021-02-15T00:22:53 < BrainDamage> positive blood antibody test is not strong evidence of its effectiveness, he could've contracted covid on his own
2021-02-15T00:24:17 < PaulFertser> Of course
2021-02-15T00:25:47 < BrainDamage> he claims otherwise
2021-02-15T00:26:37 < BrainDamage> "If the vaccine induces an immune response in the blood, then it almost certainly induces one in the mucus lining, but the reverse does not hold. So a positive blood antibody test means it definitely works, a negative antibody test is a weak update against."
2021-02-15T00:34:30 < PaulFertser> Kinda obvious it can't be true, we all know effectiveness can't be measured that way.
2021-02-15T00:36:32 < BrainDamage> the guy gives me strong feeling of r/IAmVerySmart wrt the bouts on rationalism
2021-02-15T00:38:40 < LikWidChzz> Hey there is anyone using the bluepill with the usb bootloader?
2021-02-15T00:39:57 < LikWidChzz> I have this weird ass thing that happens where my Bluepill shows up as a comport as expected but the VID and PID of the usb device do not match that of what the arduino IDE is expecting, so when I select the rando com port it cant find it even though Its the only one present and I have it selected..
2021-02-15T00:41:57 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-15T01:13:33  * Laurenceb tracked down who is sending him antivax spam
2021-02-15T01:13:53 < qyx> girl from the basement?
2021-02-15T01:15:34 < Laurenceb> >ex circ du solei gymnast who lives in an old bus in the australian outback together with her autistic son
2021-02-15T01:16:27 < qyx> I was close
2021-02-15T01:19:02 < Laurenceb> > /r/IAmVerySmart
2021-02-15T01:19:11 < Laurenceb> >using reddit
2021-02-15T01:19:27 < Laurenceb> that particular subreddit is interesting as it is infinitely recursive
2021-02-15T01:20:08 < Laurenceb> the people creating the content are better examples than the people featured in the content
2021-02-15T01:20:12 < LikWidChzz> I wonder what would happen if you just setup a script to respond to all spam emails
2021-02-15T01:20:57 < mawk> I don't get his argument BrainDamage 
2021-02-15T01:21:06 < mawk> why would the virus be circumscribed to the mucus lining?
2021-02-15T01:21:32 < Laurenceb> sheet this mucus thing was in an email my dad sent
2021-02-15T01:21:40 < Laurenceb> and he is der IAmVerySmart
2021-02-15T01:21:44 < Laurenceb> *def
2021-02-15T01:22:24 < Laurenceb> he thinks Putin made the virus and sent it via unsolicited amazon deliveries
2021-02-15T01:22:49 < mawk> lol
2021-02-15T01:22:58 < Laurenceb> which Nigel Farage helped deliver or something
2021-02-15T01:23:17 < mawk> he's not brexitoid ?
2021-02-15T01:23:31 < Laurenceb> hes anti brexit rage mode
2021-02-15T01:24:39 < mawk> lol
2021-02-15T01:24:45 < mawk> conspiratard but not brexitoid
2021-02-15T01:24:47 < mawk> weird mix
2021-02-15T01:25:05 < Laurenceb> the gymnast is a friend of my dad, I think he sent her my email
2021-02-15T01:25:53 < mawk> LikWidChzz: you get even more spam
2021-02-15T01:25:53 < Laurenceb> she helped design the london2012 opening apparently
2021-02-15T01:26:03 < mawk> when they see the email address is used, they trade the address more expensive
2021-02-15T01:26:13 < mawk> that's another reason why you shouldn't click "unsubscribe" links in spam
2021-02-15T01:26:17 < mawk> they are traps to verify mailbox activity
2021-02-15T01:28:06 < LikWidChzz> I was thinking just to do it for fun, setup a bs email account run stats.. nerdy excel graphs ... worthless stuff you know worthless stuff..
2021-02-15T01:37:01 < mawk> I'm trying by tying MOSI to MISO qyx 
2021-02-15T01:37:03 < mawk> I hope it will work
2021-02-15T01:37:12 < mawk> but it's still baffling to me why they chose this lousy scheme
2021-02-15T01:37:20 < mawk> it's not like they were short on pins, there are a few NC on this chip
2021-02-15T01:37:40 < mawk> they even have a whole pin dedicated to enabling 9 bit spi mode
2021-02-15T01:37:45 < mawk> with a bit that tells command verrsus data
2021-02-15T01:38:13 < mawk> I put a series resistor just in case alsoo
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2021-02-15T02:03:48 < catphish> mawk: we don't tolerate your casual references to slavery. we now use COPI/CIPO
2021-02-15T02:05:13 < mawk> lol
2021-02-15T02:06:02 -!- emeryth [emeryth@2a0d:eb00:2137:2:223:aeff:fefe:458c] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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2021-02-15T02:09:21 < Steffanx>  /kick catphish 
2021-02-15T02:12:03 < qyx> I cannot find any connectors similar to M8/M12/Mx in versatility
2021-02-15T02:12:10 < qyx> ie. to be able to connect any male to any female
2021-02-15T02:12:26 < catphish> Steffanx: nothing can get you kicked from this channel, not even political correctness
2021-02-15T02:12:31 < qyx> whether panel mount or cable
2021-02-15T02:13:39 < qyx> but weipu SA6 black anodized alu look kawaii
2021-02-15T02:17:01 < GenTooMan> mawk one of the somewhat interesting things about SPI is that if nothing is selected on the bus the MOSI and MISO can float. This can create stray power draw and frustrate a low power design easily.
2021-02-15T02:17:28 < Steffanx> heh, alright alright catphish  :)
2021-02-15T02:17:51 < mawk> catphish have you met Cracki?
2021-02-15T02:18:31 < catphish> i've not met anyone in this channel, i assume you all smell bad
2021-02-15T02:18:47 < GenTooMan> that stinks.
2021-02-15T02:30:54 < qyx> fuk this BQ shit, there is not a single reference in their documents what their floating point number format is
2021-02-15T02:32:14 < qyx> no shit
2021-02-15T02:32:20 < qyx> there is a flow diagram
2021-02-15T02:33:14 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/UhxR1/Screenshot_2021-02-15_01-32-57.png
2021-02-15T02:33:18 < qyx> are they from mars or what
2021-02-15T02:38:13 < Steffanx> Code in a flow chart 😍
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2021-02-15T02:40:21 < englishman> howcome the people that smell the worst are also the people that don't respect the 2m rule
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2021-02-15T02:58:41 < qyx> I can match the default value using some arndom codez
2021-02-15T02:59:01 < qyx> changing to whatever I think is good
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2021-02-15T03:12:55 < qyx> ok it works, I approximated it with trial&error avoind the whole calibration loop
2021-02-15T03:13:17 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-02-15T03:29:21 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-02-15T03:33:23 < Laurenceb> sheeet
2021-02-15T03:33:49 < Laurenceb> Met Office changed their weather station kit in 1993 and at some point in the 80s
2021-02-15T03:34:00 < Laurenceb> wind data statistics change abruptly
2021-02-15T03:34:25 < Laurenceb> wonder if I can find any employee who knows wtf is going on via email..
2021-02-15T03:35:28 < Laurenceb> since 1993 its 4hz windspeed averaged over UTC hours, with max over 3 second rolling average being the gust speed
2021-02-15T03:35:55 < Laurenceb> but its wasnt always that looking at the data... and theres no documentation I can find :S
2021-02-15T03:36:47 < Laurenceb> also Drumpf eternally btfo'd: global warming is trivially obvious from almost all stations
2021-02-15T03:38:02  * Laurenceb has now been granted access to _everything_
2021-02-15T03:38:09 < Laurenceb> over 9000 yottabytes
2021-02-15T03:39:52 < Laurenceb> inb4 "pre 1980 someone stuck a hand anemometer out of the window and guesstimated the average"
2021-02-15T03:50:26 < englishman> inb4 someone put their AMD under the thermostat causing global warming
2021-02-15T03:50:48 < qyx> Laurenceb: eumetsat data?
2021-02-15T03:50:53 < qyx> or something .uk local?
2021-02-15T03:54:29 < Laurenceb> MIDAS
2021-02-15T03:54:50 < Laurenceb> its a UK only thing, you need to be approved to get access, I sent a nice email
2021-02-15T03:55:12 < Laurenceb> simulating stratosolar cable/tether thingies 
2021-02-15T04:02:57 < qyx> the funny thing is TI's flow diagrams are not corresponding with their code
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2021-02-15T04:46:47 < qyx> uh https://github.com/u-blox/battery-shield-factory-test/blob/master/battery-gauge-bq35100/bq35100.cpp
2021-02-15T04:47:20 < qyx> 11 nested blocks?
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2021-02-15T04:56:00 < R2COM> lol what a retarted .cpp file
2021-02-15T04:56:14 < R2COM> thats the reason im writing my own lib and not using vendor "library" any more
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2021-02-15T06:32:57 < jadew> I'm thinking of shorting tesla
2021-02-15T06:35:21 < jadew> has a profit/earnings ratio of 300 (it would take you 300 years to recover the money you put in)
2021-02-15T06:37:52 < aandrew> isn't it one of hte most shorted companies in the world?
2021-02-15T06:38:03 < jadew> don't know, but it should be
2021-02-15T06:45:12 < jadew> I can short sell it with 1:5 leverage
2021-02-15T06:45:27 < jadew> 1k in, 50k out?
2021-02-15T06:46:05 < jadew> sounds like a good gamble
2021-02-15T06:48:05 < jadew> assuming it will crash to 1/10 of its current price
2021-02-15T06:58:26 < jpa-> what if people continue to be crazy and it rises 10x?
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2021-02-15T06:58:34 < jadew> then I'll lose 1k
2021-02-15T06:58:43 < jpa-> why only 1k?
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2021-02-15T06:58:58 < jadew> and whatever other amounts I have in my account to lower the margin call value
2021-02-15T06:58:58 < jpa-> i thought you would lose 50k in that case, if it is just a normal short
2021-02-15T06:59:20 < jadew> I would lose the money before it goes up that high
2021-02-15T06:59:39 < jadew> depends on how much equity I would have in the account
2021-02-15T06:59:41 < jadew> for example
2021-02-15T06:59:47 < jpa-> ah, by closing the short early - so yeah, you'd lose your 1k already when it goes up by 2%?
2021-02-15T07:00:15 < jpa-> which it does like.. every now and then? but hasn't had a big crash yet ever
2021-02-15T07:00:23 < jadew> no, it should go up by a minimum of 10% for me to lose the money, if I didn't have anything else in my account
2021-02-15T07:00:39 < jadew> the margin call value for my broker is 50%
2021-02-15T07:01:03 < jadew> so if the price goes up by 10%, then 50% of my money is gone, at which case they close the position automatically
2021-02-15T07:01:11 < jadew> if however I add more money to the account
2021-02-15T07:01:26 < jadew> than the equity to margin ratio will keep being higher than 50%
2021-02-15T07:01:33 < jpa-> if the margin call is 50%, how are you shorting with 5x leverage? wouldn't that limit your leverage to 2x anyway?
2021-02-15T07:02:06 < jadew> let's say my account is brand new, and I have no other positions or money in it
2021-02-15T07:02:14 < jadew> just the 1k that I short tesla with
2021-02-15T07:02:22 < jadew> with a 1:5 leverage
2021-02-15T07:02:46 < jadew> that means I would now have a position that is worth 5k, and I have a margin of 1k
2021-02-15T07:03:07 < jadew> the equity of my account is 1k (what it would be left if all my positions were closed)
2021-02-15T07:03:30 < jadew> if the price goes up by 10%, then 10% of 5k is 500
2021-02-15T07:03:33 < jadew> so I would lose 500
2021-02-15T07:03:53 < jadew> the equity of my account would then be 1k - 500 = 500, and the margin would be 1k
2021-02-15T07:04:08 < jadew> 500 / 1000 = 0.5 => margin call, position closed
2021-02-15T07:04:18 < jadew> if however I added more money to the account
2021-02-15T07:04:20 < jadew> say 300
2021-02-15T07:04:31 < jpa-> i don't think that is how margin calculations work
2021-02-15T07:04:49 < jadew> then I would have 800 / 1000 = 0.8 => no margin call
2021-02-15T07:05:17 < jadew> that's how the margin call works (when the broker decides to close your position, because it's too risky for them)
2021-02-15T07:05:39 < jadew> your equity has to be higher than 50% (usually it's less)
2021-02-15T07:06:06 < jpa-> because you have 5k of short position you are responsible for, so if your margin ratio is 50% you would need to have 2.5k of equity in account
2021-02-15T07:06:49 < jpa-> though with the way elon tweets, a short squeeze or a rapid rise is not impossible either
2021-02-15T07:06:50 < jadew> that is for a rise of 50%
2021-02-15T07:07:03 < jadew> and you would need to have (2.5 - 1k) * 2
2021-02-15T07:07:05 < jadew> so 3k
2021-02-15T07:07:35 < jadew> that's the real risk here, that it could spike up
2021-02-15T07:07:45 < jadew> but the price is reasonably high now, 10% is quite a lot
2021-02-15T07:07:59 < jadew> so you could be 1k and keep 1k as additional equity
2021-02-15T07:08:33 < jadew> I haven't done the math, but I think doing it like this should be exactly as if the leverage was lower
2021-02-15T07:08:56 < jadew> so I think you can lower the leverage with this technique
2021-02-15T07:09:05 < jpa-> at least that is not how maintenance margin works with my broker (nordnet)
2021-02-15T07:09:33 < jadew> they require 50% equity of the total value?
2021-02-15T07:09:44 < jpa-> they just require you to have the percentage (i don't remember exactly what percentage, but something like 40% or 50%) of all positions you are responsible for
2021-02-15T07:09:57 < jadew> so if you want to use 1:5 leverage you have to have 1 + 2.5 on the side?
2021-02-15T07:10:48 < jpa-> 2.5 total, can be in e.g. other stocks
2021-02-15T07:11:00 < jadew> currently I hold a similar position where I have just 200 USD spare in my account, and 1k in margin (I just started this last week)
2021-02-15T07:11:23 < jadew> jpa-, interesting, in here it's 50% of the margin
2021-02-15T07:11:38 < jadew> you should look it up, because it might not be 50% of the position's value
2021-02-15T07:11:49 < jadew> you might have more headroom than you think
2021-02-15T07:12:09 < jpa-> i must admit i haven't studied it very closely, because i consider short betting too risky anyway
2021-02-15T07:12:16 < jadew> it is, yeah
2021-02-15T07:12:30 < jpa-> something like tesla is obviously overvalued, but there is no reason to assume it would crash when i/you want it to
2021-02-15T07:12:32 < jadew> especially if you have other stuff in your account or you don't have negative balance protection
2021-02-15T07:12:55 < jadew> that's true, I lost $70 yesterday shorting stupid DASH coin
2021-02-15T07:13:00 < jadew> yesterday or two days ago
2021-02-15T07:13:09 < jadew> it's now back to the price I expected it to be at :/
2021-02-15T07:13:41 < jpa-> do they really offer such protection there? here you are responsible for all your losses, even if the broker fails to execute a sell in time or if their site crashes etc.
2021-02-15T07:13:43 < jadew> the danger with shorting is that it can go infinitely high
2021-02-15T07:13:50 < jpa-> even if your account does not have that much money
2021-02-15T07:13:55 < jadew> while when buying, it can only drop to 0
2021-02-15T07:14:18 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, the balance can't go negative
2021-02-15T07:14:26 < jpa-> https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/033015/what-difference-between-initial-margin-and-maintenance-margin.asp    maybe we are confusing the two kinds of margin?
2021-02-15T07:14:30 < jadew> you can lose your other positions tho
2021-02-15T07:14:49 < jpa-> jadew: are you sure? that they don't just come for your money through the court system?
2021-02-15T07:15:05 < jadew> jpa-, I asked them, yeah :)
2021-02-15T07:15:21 < jadew> the contact mentions something along those lines too
2021-02-15T07:15:27 < jpa-> seems crazy risky for the broker to allow you to short with such large ratio and low margin, and then even not be able to recover it from you
2021-02-15T07:15:47 < jadew> well, 1:5 is not high
2021-02-15T07:16:17 < jadew> they have plenty of time to maneuver
2021-02-15T07:16:38 < jadew> and for very volatile stuff they offer less leverage
2021-02-15T07:16:40 < jpa-> can you open multiple accounts and do they have that protection separately?
2021-02-15T07:16:58 < jadew> you can have up to 4 accounts I think, in different currencies
2021-02-15T07:17:11 < jadew> but then you have to deal with currency conversions
2021-02-15T07:17:20 < jadew> I only have a USD one
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2021-02-15T07:19:16 < jpa-> jadew: which broker is that?
2021-02-15T07:19:20 < jadew> jpa-, xtb
2021-02-15T07:20:09 < jadew> https://ro.xtb.com/protectie-impotriva-balantei-negative
2021-02-15T07:20:45 < jadew> it basically says that your risk is the total balance of your account, and you can't generate debt
2021-02-15T07:21:05 < jpa-> lol, got a link to that from google but the actual page blocks content with "This promotion is not available in your country" :)
2021-02-15T07:21:15 < jadew> hah
2021-02-15T07:21:23 < jpa-> but yeah, looks like it does have that kind of protection
2021-02-15T07:22:53 < jadew> maybe they don't have an office in your country
2021-02-15T07:23:31 < jadew> Finland?
2021-02-15T07:24:02 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-15T07:24:26 < jadew> doesn't seem to be an option in the language thing
2021-02-15T07:24:35 < jpa-> i use nordnet, they are quite clear on that there is no limit on losses for shorts
2021-02-15T07:24:55 < jpa-> but looks like the margin requirement is like 10-15% for low-volatility stocks
2021-02-15T07:25:05 < jpa-> so i guess that would similarly allow 1:5 or 1:10 leverage
2021-02-15T07:25:07 < jadew> oh, that's pretty good
2021-02-15T07:25:20 < jpa-> just different way to calculate it and thus different percent value
2021-02-15T07:25:24 < jadew> ah, you mean the margin for the position
2021-02-15T07:25:30 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-15T07:26:04 < jadew> and the margin call ratio is what?
2021-02-15T07:26:14 < jadew> 25 or 50%?
2021-02-15T07:26:16 < jpa-> i don't think they have that as such
2021-02-15T07:26:27 < jadew> because you're free to lose whatever?
2021-02-15T07:26:32 < jadew> makes sense I guess...
2021-02-15T07:26:51 < jpa-> if your account equity drops below the required amount based on the position value, they close the position
2021-02-15T07:27:14 < jpa-> (which can happen either by equity dropping or position value increasing)
2021-02-15T07:27:31 < jadew> ah, I see
2021-02-15T07:27:33 < jadew> that's interesting
2021-02-15T07:28:02 < jadew> this is how it's done on xtb: https://www.xtb.com/en/margin-call-definition-kb
2021-02-15T07:32:33 < jadew> with a 1k account, shorting tesla right now, with 1:5 leverage, would close my position if the price got to $934
2021-02-15T07:33:06 < jadew> if I put 1k in the short, 1k in the account, then that number would be $1134
2021-02-15T07:33:37 < jadew> it's not a bad gamble
2021-02-15T07:33:42 < jadew> but you never know what people do
2021-02-15T07:33:58 < jadew> they could keep buying that crap
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2021-02-15T08:55:22 < jadew> I was wrong regarding the profits - they don't multiply like that when short selling
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2021-02-15T08:56:00 < jadew> so the risk/reward is not that great
2021-02-15T08:57:16 < jadew> if you short sell at 1:5 leverage and you have an initial margin of 1k and the stock drops to 0, then you earn 4k
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2021-02-15T08:58:50 < jpa-> ah, yeah - makes sense
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2021-02-15T09:01:37 < jpa-> meh, why aren't the dutchies sending my new DMM & PSU
2021-02-15T09:02:15 < jadew> they're waiting for the chinese to send it to them first, and china is on vacation
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2021-02-15T09:03:38 < jpa-> probably
2021-02-15T09:03:49 < jpa-> though they claimed it is already in warehouse
2021-02-15T09:03:59 < jadew> in china
2021-02-15T09:04:30 < jadew> I like the chinese holiday, it gives me the opportunity to work on other stuff
2021-02-15T09:04:37 < jadew> this time I got into investing for example
2021-02-15T09:05:12 < jadew> can't wait for next year's vaccation
2021-02-15T09:06:26 < jadew> I bought Pfizer btw
2021-02-15T09:07:21 < jadew> weirdly enough, its value has been going down, despite the vaccine success
2021-02-15T09:07:51 < BrainDamage> the vaccine works, their logistics don't
2021-02-15T09:08:07 < BrainDamage> they keep underdelivering and give false promises
2021-02-15T09:08:38 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, they had to halt shipping, but I think they started building more factories, no?
2021-02-15T09:09:01 < jadew> they're planning to get to a capacity of 2 billion doses/year
2021-02-15T09:09:48 < BrainDamage> until people will see that, I doubt the title will change because it's still promises
2021-02-15T09:10:07 < jadew> that's true
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2021-02-15T11:26:32 < Steffanx> Where did mr jpa- order his drugs?
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2021-02-15T11:30:02 < karlp> I would expect that jadew's "broker" is _much_ more likely to make trades on your behalf than jpa's is...
2021-02-15T11:31:05 < karlp> for fun, australian brokers lending ratios are the "1 minus" form,
2021-02-15T11:31:25 < karlp> so 85% lending ratio for "stable" being == jpa's 15% for low volatility...
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2021-02-15T11:44:33 < jpa-> xtb seems to have quite clear threshold for when they'll close your position for you
2021-02-15T11:44:55 < jpa-> Steffanx: owontechnology.eu
2021-02-15T11:45:30 < karlp> owon is like the fancy china brand or something right?
2021-02-15T11:45:32 < karlp> what did you get?
2021-02-15T11:46:11 < jpa-> which is funnily enough a sister site of siglent.eu and some of the pages haven't been fully customized
2021-02-15T11:46:43 < jpa-> XDM2041 and P4603
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2021-02-15T11:54:05 < Steffanx> We are broken. jpa- 
2021-02-15T11:56:54 < karlp> what were you looking for in the p4603 that you don't get from a korad?
2021-02-15T11:57:04 < karlp> (does look like if you really need the 60v, the korads no longer cheaper)
2021-02-15T11:57:38 < karlp> nice db9 connector, those are always good
2021-02-15T11:59:16 < karlp> not sure I could bring myself to buy db9 connectors these days
2021-02-15T12:03:21 < BrainDamage> still better than gpib
2021-02-15T12:45:04 < qyx> why is it so big
2021-02-15T12:45:27 < qyx> my shelf is 200 mm deep
2021-02-15T12:45:57 < qyx> the other one os 300 mm, still not enough for the power cord
2021-02-15T13:02:33 < jpa-> karlp: 60V, 1mV and PC control were my criteria
2021-02-15T13:02:49 < jpa-> indeed USB would have been nicer but didn't find a reasonably priced model
2021-02-15T13:04:33 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, my shelf is also 200mm but fortunately there is unused corner behind it so i can just make a hole :D
2021-02-15T13:06:40 < englishman> jadw could just buy puts and limit his losses to the initial investment
2021-02-15T13:06:49 < englishman> as in any case he'll lose all his money betting against tesla
2021-02-15T13:07:09 < zyp> jpa-, are they supported by smutview?
2021-02-15T13:08:17 < jpa-> i don't know what you watch in "smutview", but no, not yet supported in smuview
2021-02-15T13:08:49 < jpa-> the protocol seemed documented and simple enough, so i plan on adding support at some point
2021-02-15T13:09:32 < jpa-> though primarily i'll be using it from a custom python script, so it'll probably be easier to just use it directly than through sigrok abstraction
2021-02-15T13:09:33 < zyp> nice
2021-02-15T13:09:51 < zyp> true
2021-02-15T13:11:46 < englishman> they all just work with SCPI dont they
2021-02-15T13:11:56 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-15T13:12:47 < englishman> glad to see "low failure rate" is a feature
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2021-02-15T13:14:28 < jpa-> adding support should be mostly just adding the profile struct like this:   https://github.com/sigrokproject/libsigrok/blob/master/src/hardware/scpi-pps/profiles.c#L162
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2021-02-15T13:18:29 < karlp> jpa-: ok, cool, for 1mV control over 60V, yeah, not getting that in the korads..
2021-02-15T13:20:12 < jpa-> yeah - first i was going to build a custom usb controlled calibration voltage supply with 100V opamps and whatnot.. then i realized that power supplies that can get 0.1% accuracy aren't that expensive anymore
2021-02-15T13:20:34 < jpa-> still need to add some relays to get +-60V, but usb relay boards are cheap
2021-02-15T13:21:12 < karlp> I mena, €150 euro is pretty nice already, 
2021-02-15T13:21:22 < karlp> wotcha doing with 60V anyway?
2021-02-15T13:21:48 < jpa-> well someone convinced me that an isolator that can only measure to +-16/+-160V is silly
2021-02-15T13:22:19 < jpa-> so it's now +-45V/+-450V, and to verify clamping function i'll have to go a bit over that
2021-02-15T13:24:53 < karlp> hehe.
2021-02-15T13:25:35 < karlp> next meter up in their range adds ethernet and usb, but is also double thr price, as it improves accuracy too. meh
2021-02-15T13:25:36 < jpa-> (in reality i could do with a stable voltage at whatever voltage, even if it is not controllable to 1mV or precise to 0.1%, but makes it simpler not to have to compare with dmm input vs. output)
2021-02-15T13:26:21 < englishman> can you get those calibrated locally for cheap?
2021-02-15T13:27:25 < jpa-> englishman: not really, though i have things to compare against
2021-02-15T13:27:47 < englishman> no problem there then
2021-02-15T13:28:05 < jpa-> if it is within spec, no problem - if it is out of spec, then i'll be wondering which device is out of spec :)
2021-02-15T13:28:17 < englishman> blind leading the blind style of calibration
2021-02-15T13:28:32 < jpa-> calibration that is traceable back to itself
2021-02-15T13:29:29 < englishman> i spent the last 2 months calculating and writing 17025 procedures.. can confirm they probably won't catch that in your audit
2021-02-15T13:30:43 < jpa-> heh, HY1803D is what i have now, looks like it still sells for ~80 EUR like it did a decade ago.. well i guess being linear is a benefit for it
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2021-02-15T13:32:47 < jpa-> karlp: regarding USB vs. RS232 - at least with RS232 one can spend the few euros for a working PL2303 converter instead of CH340 crap
2021-02-15T13:33:23 < jpa-> my cheapie JDS6600 signal generator has CH340 and drops the connection randomly
2021-02-15T13:33:25 < Lux> what's wrong with ch340?
2021-02-15T13:33:45 < karlp> Lux: not as much these days as it used to be....
2021-02-15T13:33:53 < karlp> but still,  ^^^what jpa said^^^
2021-02-15T13:34:01 < karlp> at least you can configure parity and baud rate these days...
2021-02-15T13:34:03 < Lux> wrote too fast ^^
2021-02-15T13:34:09 < jpa-> might be that they have crappy crystal for it or something
2021-02-15T13:34:11 < Lux> for me that one allways worked great
2021-02-15T13:34:17 < karlp> Lux: on windows?
2021-02-15T13:34:20 < jpa-> seems to be a common problem in chinese USB devices that they cheap out on the crystal
2021-02-15T13:34:22 < Lux> anywhere
2021-02-15T13:34:33 < karlp> Lux: you probably never tried it very hard then :)
2021-02-15T13:34:37 < Lux> yeah it's more likely that
2021-02-15T13:34:43 < karlp> they were virtually unusuable before about linux 4.0
2021-02-15T13:34:53 < Lux> even built my own stuff with it
2021-02-15T13:35:08 < karlp> if you stuck to 8n1, 115200 or lower, probaly "just worked"
2021-02-15T13:36:02 < jpa-> i started my CH340 experiences back in 2017.. with the linux drivers back then, it transmitted at different baudrate than it received at :D
2021-02-15T13:36:30 < Lux> also from my experience the pl2303 is worse, as there i really got bad clones
2021-02-15T13:36:48 < Lux> but that was like 5 years ago
2021-02-15T13:36:56 < jpa-> interesting
2021-02-15T13:37:12 < jpa-> i haven't hit bad clones with PL2303, but yeah, no reason why they wouldn't exist also
2021-02-15T13:38:00 < karlp> yeah, pl2303 had bad clones years ago apparently, but pl2303h or osmethign and newer are all "fine"
2021-02-15T13:38:33 < karlp> I always avoided them and just bought cp210x except for when I was hacking on ch340/341 for a while
2021-02-15T13:38:38 < Thorn> so what's the industry standard for rs-485 connectors? and should I put 2 of them for use convenience if it's not a master device?
2021-02-15T13:38:43 < karlp> so my pl2303x is only hearsay.
2021-02-15T13:38:57 < karlp> Thorn: there isn't one...
2021-02-15T13:39:04 < jpa-> though, i must say, i was really disappointed with linux drivers for native RS232 on motherboard (16500 or whatever).. it was dropping received bytes at 57600bps
2021-02-15T13:39:22 < karlp> you can compare yourself to other products in your area and see what you like...
2021-02-15T13:39:50 < karlp> there's a few relatively common pinouts using rj jacks if you look around and if you have the space for taht sort of thing
2021-02-15T13:40:04 < karlp> (and those do tend to have two plugs for that reason, yes...)
2021-02-15T13:40:46 < Lux> yeah anything greater 115200 on linux can be a gamble depending on the driver
2021-02-15T13:41:10 < Lux> had that issue wit a samA5 board once
2021-02-15T13:44:41 < qyx> for me ch340 never worked
2021-02-15T13:44:59 < qyx> pl2303 and ftdi without problems even at 921600 or whatever the number is
2021-02-15T13:46:11 < jpa-> ftdi has worked up to 8MBaud/s for me, but i need faster!
2021-02-15T13:50:23 < PaulFertser> I used 12 Mbaud with ft2232h.
2021-02-15T13:50:52 < PaulFertser> setserial /dev/ttyUSB1 spd_cust divisor 5; stty -F /dev/ttyUSB1 38400
2021-02-15T13:56:15 < zyp> Thorn, I mostly see it on screw terminals
2021-02-15T13:56:53 < karlp> (everythign in my office is eithe rscrew terminals or push cage/lever terminal stuff, but that's all energy meter stuff)
2021-02-15T13:57:34 < Thorn> what pitch do those screw terminals have?
2021-02-15T13:57:52 < zyp> anything?
2021-02-15T13:58:37 < karlp> ^^^^
2021-02-15T13:59:01 < karlp> off the top of my head, here I have 3.5, 3.theotherone, 5, and 7.62...
2021-02-15T13:59:19 < Thorn> 7.62 for rs-485?
2021-02-15T13:59:28 < karlp> 7.62 for _all_ the connectors,
2021-02-15T13:59:33 < zyp> I've got a board on my desk here now that's got a 24-pin mini-fit jr that among other things includes two rs-485 interfaces
2021-02-15T13:59:49 < karlp> and rs485 is just two of the them
2021-02-15T14:00:12 < karlp> (but yes, of course that's overkill)
2021-02-15T14:00:24 < zyp> personally I kinda like rj45 for rs-485
2021-02-15T14:00:32 < zyp> but I don't like that pinout is ambiguous
2021-02-15T14:00:45 < karlp> we use a 2x2 micro-matenlok for wire2wire,
2021-02-15T14:01:01 < karlp> and you can get it on a board mount version too, 
2021-02-15T14:01:08 < karlp> if you're ok with having custom cabling...
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2021-02-15T16:20:41 < zyp> any suggestions for a cheap stm32 board with a trace connector?
2021-02-15T16:23:08 < jpa-> you mean the 4-bit thing?
2021-02-15T16:23:25 < zyp> yes
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2021-02-15T16:33:16 < zyp> the st evalboards do, but they are $$$
2021-02-15T16:33:51 < qyx> draw you own in 3.. 2.. 1..
2021-02-15T16:39:48 < karlp> i seem to recall one of the waveshare borads having it?
2021-02-15T16:40:29 < zyp> all the waveshare boards I've seen still only got the old huge 20-pin jtag connector
2021-02-15T16:41:11 < aandrew> trace? that's a good question. the H757 board I have does, but it's $$$
2021-02-15T16:41:23 < aandrew> I don't have anything that can use it though
2021-02-15T16:41:40 < zyp> which H757 board? official evalboard?
2021-02-15T16:43:14 < aandrew> yeah, I don't have it right handy here but it's a big board (like 25cm square) with TFT and built-in stlinkv3
2021-02-15T16:43:31 < aandrew> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32h757i-eval.html that one
2021-02-15T16:43:38 < zyp> wright
2021-02-15T16:44:01 < zyp> looks like all the -eval boards do, and it also looks like they are all >$300 or something
2021-02-15T16:52:51 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nJ6uR4jMf0
2021-02-15T16:57:23 < aandrew> am I going to ragrat clicking a laurent link
2021-02-15T16:57:29 < aandrew> yep
2021-02-15T16:59:04 < qyx> hah
2021-02-15T17:02:53 < Laurenceb> fucks sake
2021-02-15T17:03:06 < Laurenceb> all the local teenagers are on my back path again
2021-02-15T17:03:16 < Laurenceb> school needs to reopen already
2021-02-15T17:03:21 < Laurenceb> I can smell weeed
2021-02-15T17:03:23 < karlp> were you making milkshakes again?
2021-02-15T17:03:27 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-15T17:03:31 < zyp> «get off my lawn»
2021-02-15T17:03:53 < Laurenceb> >literal clouds of weed smoke from behind a bush right now
2021-02-15T17:04:41 < Laurenceb> >school is closed so you hide in a tree and smoke weed
2021-02-15T17:04:49 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2021-02-15T17:06:39 < Laurenceb> I could call the police and say they are breaking lockdown but I'm not that much of an asshole tbh
2021-02-15T17:11:02 < qyx> why not call the police for smoking weed
2021-02-15T17:11:40 < qyx> ask them if you could join
2021-02-15T17:13:04 < zyp> ah, nice
2021-02-15T17:13:05 < zyp> https://shop.segger.com/Cortex_M_Trace_Reference_Board_p/6.68.18.htm
2021-02-15T17:13:24 < zyp> maybe a bit too simple
2021-02-15T17:14:03 < qyx> mini-b :S
2021-02-15T17:16:28 < skz81> <qyx> ask them if you could join >> I'm figuring it... "Can I smoke too ? - Are you crazy boomer ? - Ok, I call the cops, then"
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2021-02-15T17:18:41 < Laurenceb> keeek I was meming about uk wind data, but
2021-02-15T17:18:48 < Laurenceb> >Estimates of average speed
2021-02-15T17:18:48 < Laurenceb> from a continuously changing dial, which are subject to large error, were usually made
2021-02-15T17:19:43 < Laurenceb> no wonder the old data is shit
2021-02-15T17:20:34 < jpa-> gaah, now my farnell order (65 EUR, free shipping) arrived in 5 huge boxes
2021-02-15T17:21:02 < zyp> nice
2021-02-15T17:21:10 < jpa-> i feel like i've destroyed the globe by just the sheer amount of useless packing material
2021-02-15T17:21:43 < zyp> get a cat so you can put it to use
2021-02-15T17:22:13 < jpa-> i have a child
2021-02-15T17:22:42 < jpa-> but it'll turn into smaller and smaller pieces of cardboard, and the importance of the cardboard pieces will increase over time
2021-02-15T17:23:01 < zyp> :)
2021-02-15T17:23:20 < jpa-> they shipped the 1 meter long heatshrink tube straight.. ok i can understand that
2021-02-15T17:23:42 < jpa-> they shipped the 1.5 meter long EMI shield gasket (flexible, 0.5mm thickness) straight.. a bit excessive
2021-02-15T17:23:52 < jpa-> i'm just lucky they didn't ship the 5 meter long coax cable straight
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2021-02-15T17:45:42 < R2COM> almost done with coding the main peripherals for project and cortex headers for c++
2021-02-15T17:45:42 < qyx> I just found out I need to keep by clock precise to 2 ppb to maintain 1% phase error in sampling after one day
2021-02-15T17:45:57 < qyx> s/by/my
2021-02-15T17:46:00 < R2COM> but trying to figure out best way to "share" data betwee n "extern C" interrupt functions and say my peripheral class
2021-02-15T17:46:16 < qyx> have you seen laks?
2021-02-15T17:48:32 < jpa-> qyx: phase error relative to what? does whatever is generating that data have such accurate clock?
2021-02-15T17:48:40 < R2COM> its not doing what i was talking about
2021-02-15T17:49:15 < qyx> jpa-: it does not but I am syncing it to a 32.768 kHz TCXO
2021-02-15T17:49:15 < R2COM> its steel "extern C" but with function template
2021-02-15T17:49:23 < qyx> and I need to keep the TCXO precise
2021-02-15T17:49:50 < qyx> oh relative to GNSS 1PPS
2021-02-15T17:49:56 < jpa-> R2COM: time for global pointers or static instances :)
2021-02-15T17:50:39 < jpa-> qyx: relative to GNSS 1PPS but you can't sync the measurement system to that?
2021-02-15T17:50:41 < R2COM> and i was talking about *sharing* data between "extern C" style base interrupt function and some arbitrary *peripheral class*
2021-02-15T17:51:00 < R2COM> im trying to see if theres a way for it to point to say class member
2021-02-15T17:51:13 < jpa-> R2COM: i don't see how the "extern C" part makes any difference, but the interrupt function being independent function (instead of member function) does make a difference
2021-02-15T17:51:18 < R2COM> but then... even if something like that IS doable, will there be apenalty of performance for that
2021-02-15T17:51:25 < R2COM> because if yes...then i dont want it
2021-02-15T17:51:30 < jpa-> you can point to a static class method quite easily
2021-02-15T17:52:01 < R2COM> but then it means that its going to be *slower* than if i implemented stuff i wanna do right inside interrupt function?
2021-02-15T17:52:15 < R2COM> hmm
2021-02-15T17:52:18 < R2COM> lemme see
2021-02-15T17:52:30 < jpa-> static class method is no different from extern "C" method outside the class, it is just difference in C++ access rules
2021-02-15T17:52:43 < jpa-> but it cannot access object members, being a static class method
2021-02-15T17:53:25 < Laurenceb> oh shit 
2021-02-15T17:53:37 < jpa-> if you want to access object members, you'll either have to make the object static or have a trampoline that loads the object pointer from some static location in RAM
2021-02-15T17:53:48 < qyx> jpa-: the problem is I cannot have GNSS running all the time because it consumes much power
2021-02-15T17:53:48 < R2COM> well yes but what i say is, that class method will "do something", so if that "do something" is done right inside interrupt function wouldnt it be faster
2021-02-15T17:54:23  * Laurenceb just notices the url for the met office guidance
2021-02-15T17:54:26 < Laurenceb> http://cedadocs.ceda.ac.uk/1488/
2021-02-15T17:55:01 < jpa-> qyx: could you retroactively correct the timing for measurements between GNSS locks? i.e. when you turn on GNSS, check how much clock has drifted and assume it has drifted at the same rate for the whole duration
2021-02-15T17:56:28 < qyx> good idea but I can't, 1. I would need to postprocess the already saved data later 2. alarms are already sent with the wrong clock 3. the clock probably drifts with temperature changes which are common in the device
2021-02-15T17:56:37 < qyx> although idk exactly how much, I need to test first
2021-02-15T17:58:25 < qyx> (the thing is checking frequency of a vibrating element in the ~0-5 Hz range with a resolution of 0.01 Hz and sends a LoRa alarm if it changes much)
2021-02-15T17:59:34 < qyx> maybe I could run the GNSS for a couple of seconds every hour or so
2021-02-15T17:59:58 < qyx> to keep the hotstart capability
2021-02-15T18:01:06 < R2COM> "The real answer is 'No' it is not possible in C++ to use a method as the ISR handler directly. You have to resort to standard C functions and then with glue in the ISR function, reference the required object. It ends up as quite a messy solution."
2021-02-15T18:01:14 < R2COM> haha
2021-02-15T18:01:22 < jpa-> R2COM: lies
2021-02-15T18:01:41 < R2COM> but read what he said *directly* and that was my question
2021-02-15T18:01:47 < R2COM> is there a way to do it rather DIRECTLY
2021-02-15T18:02:02 < R2COM> but not as messy workaround which at the end will introduce time delay
2021-02-15T18:02:11 < R2COM> i.e. without performance penalty
2021-02-15T18:02:28 < jpa-> class foobar { static void myisrhandler() { do_whatever_c++_static_method_can_do(); } };    uint32_t g_vectortable[] = { ... [16 + MYISR_IRQn] = (uint32_t)&foobar::myisrhandler };
2021-02-15T18:02:55 < R2COM> hm
2021-02-15T18:04:09 < jpa-> but if you need some non-static object in the ISR handler, you'll need to get the "this" pointer from somewhere, and yeah, that'll be a couple of cycles of latency
2021-02-15T18:05:40 < Laurenceb> qyx: I looked at something similar
2021-02-15T18:05:40 < jpa-> qyx: i guess you could do some dynamic estimation of the temperature characteristics - i.e. record temperature readings and correlate them to observed drift, use that to better estimate frequency in future
2021-02-15T18:06:05 < Laurenceb> qyx: on F1 at least you can trim 32khz RTC by  +-n ppm
2021-02-15T18:06:16 < R2COM> the "..." in your snippet is "other vector handlers" in my table?
2021-02-15T18:06:24 < jpa-> R2COM: yes
2021-02-15T18:06:28 < Laurenceb> iirc Leo hooked ublox 1pps up to high end HP allan variance meter
2021-02-15T18:06:31 < R2COM> but i mean
2021-02-15T18:06:35 < Laurenceb> it was really good iirc
2021-02-15T18:06:36 < R2COM> how its going to be picked up then
2021-02-15T18:06:43 < R2COM> i cant add to there
2021-02-15T18:06:47 < jpa-> why not?
2021-02-15T18:06:53 < Laurenceb> ]but >1 pps gives you more accuracy
2021-02-15T18:07:09 < R2COM> because its already memory mapped to specific device
2021-02-15T18:07:19 < Laurenceb> qyx: I used a kalman filter to fit rtc drift to temperature using 1pps
2021-02-15T18:07:33 < qyx> Laurenceb: I cannot trim the RTC beucasu it is an external TCXO
2021-02-15T18:07:34 < Laurenceb> then you need to use alarm to wake up every 15minutes or so
2021-02-15T18:07:35 < jpa-> R2COM: huh?
2021-02-15T18:07:39 < R2COM> lets say im interested in TIM1_CC_IRQHandler
2021-02-15T18:07:43 < R2COM> its already inside that table
2021-02-15T18:07:50 < jpa-> why? did you put it there?
2021-02-15T18:08:01 < Laurenceb> qyx: measure temperature and adjust when u wake
2021-02-15T18:08:12 < Laurenceb> qyx: you trim by skipping cycles
2021-02-15T18:08:20 < R2COM> https://ctxt.io/2/AACgbnmHFg
2021-02-15T18:08:21 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T18:08:24 < Laurenceb> at least on f1 RTC you can, never tried this on others
2021-02-15T18:08:26 < R2COM> this is how currently it looks like
2021-02-15T18:08:27 < qyx> yeah i plan to adjust reload register
2021-02-15T18:08:37 < qyx> I am not using rtc but LPTIM
2021-02-15T18:08:38 < Laurenceb> so f1 RTC will work with adjusted reload and trim registers
2021-02-15T18:08:39 < R2COM> there is TIM1_CC_IRQHandler
2021-02-15T18:08:41 < Laurenceb> oh
2021-02-15T18:08:44 < jpa-> R2COM: well why do you have all that stuff there?
2021-02-15T18:09:00 < Laurenceb> qyx: I've never used LPTIM sorry
2021-02-15T18:09:05 < R2COM> all that stuff is for say something else whenever id need it
2021-02-15T18:09:13 < R2COM> in current project i only be using TIM1_CC_IRQHandler
2021-02-15T18:09:40 < Laurenceb> I suspect adjusting reload register on LPTIM will be rather coarse
2021-02-15T18:09:56 < Laurenceb> so you might need to wake up quite regularly to dither it
2021-02-15T18:10:14 < jpa-> R2COM: why not just have only the stuff you really use?   http://paste.dy.fi/vzn/plain   
2021-02-15T18:10:51 < Laurenceb> there is no way its just chance the user guide is document 1488
2021-02-15T18:10:56 < jpa-> (though, to be honest, you can probably put some GCC attribute((alias("TIM1_CC_IRQHandler"))) stuff on a C++ static function if you really want to call it with such a name in the vector table
2021-02-15T18:11:22 < R2COM> why you have repeated hardfault handler, its basically placeholder for dummy handler?
2021-02-15T18:11:40 < jpa-> it's for the memory etc. fault handlers
2021-02-15T18:11:52 < Laurenceb> R2COM: so you hardfault in case of unhandled interrupt
2021-02-15T18:12:11 < jpa-> Laurenceb: not really, it's not filling the rest of the entries with that
2021-02-15T18:12:17 < Laurenceb> ok
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2021-02-15T18:13:30 < jpa-> one could have [0..255] = (void*)&HardFaultHandler  in there if one wanted to fill it, latter assignments would override it
2021-02-15T18:16:47  * Laurenceb is writing an email to document 1488 guy
2021-02-15T18:16:56 < Laurenceb> inb4 dongs works at uk met office
2021-02-15T18:17:42 < Laurenceb> maybe I should larp as a triggered sjw
2021-02-15T18:19:03 < R2COM> im not getting square brackets there
2021-02-15T18:20:11 < jpa-> that's designated initializers.. but apparently that might not exist in C++
2021-02-15T18:20:29 < karlp> does c++ even let you do named struct init's yet?
2021-02-15T18:20:35 < karlp> or are they still in the stone ages...
2021-02-15T18:21:25 < R2COM> what do you mean doesnt exist, didnt you post c++ snippet?
2021-02-15T18:23:19 < jpa-> nah, that's from C code
2021-02-15T18:23:56 < R2COM> what is TIM16_IRQn in your case?
2021-02-15T18:24:27 < R2COM> so you say its doable and c++ and post a c++ snippet but its not a c++ snippet....
2021-02-15T18:27:12 < karlp> he's saying, the way you choose to intialize your vectors is entirely up to you
2021-02-15T18:27:34 < karlp> the method of declaring a function taht can be an isr was correct though.
2021-02-15T18:28:54 < fenugrec> qyx, interesting, I want to do something similar (sync internal clock or RTC to gnss / other external 1PPS source)... I should look at ntp maybe, this should already be a solved problem
2021-02-15T18:29:28 < R2COM> http://paste.dy.fi/vzn/plain
2021-02-15T18:29:30 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T18:29:45 < R2COM> in above code, where is ADC1_2_IRQn first declared
2021-02-15T18:29:56 < R2COM> cuz it wont recognize it
2021-02-15T18:30:02 < fenugrec> mapping %drift to die temperature would be nifty but too much testing, I assume  will vary accross devices 
2021-02-15T18:31:23 < qyx> it was relatively easy with a vctcxo
2021-02-15T18:32:30 < fenugrec> ah yes, I was thinking of the internal HSI8 / HSI48
2021-02-15T18:34:52 < R2COM> ok so what "worked" for me i.e., without compile errors is this:
2021-02-15T18:34:55 < R2COM> 	//TIM1_CC_IRQHandler,
2021-02-15T18:34:55 < R2COM> 	(ptr_func_t)&CTIM1::isrhandler,
2021-02-15T18:35:21 < R2COM> commented out is the old "c" handler i had, just c function for that interrupt
2021-02-15T18:35:33 < R2COM> and second line is isrhandler, static member of CTIM1 class
2021-02-15T18:35:44 < R2COM> i mean it did compile but ill have to see if it really works
2021-02-15T18:39:50 < jpa-> R2COM: IIRC laks has some fancy C++ template stuff for building the vector table
2021-02-15T18:40:05 < R2COM> as i just said its different stuff
2021-02-15T18:40:13 < R2COM> i was talking about mating ISR & Class
2021-02-15T18:40:40 < jpa-> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/interrupt.cpp    and this is that?
2021-02-15T18:40:59 < R2COM> its isr function template
2021-02-15T18:42:33 < zyp> R2COM, the mf_vectors is what you're asking for, but it's dumb and I wouldn't recommend it
2021-02-15T18:42:54 < jpa-> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/i2c/i2c.cpp#n7    and here the "isr function template" is used to mate it with static classes
2021-02-15T18:43:11 < jpa-> zyp: i don't think it is, because he wants "no overhead" and appears to be fine with static
2021-02-15T18:43:30 < R2COM> yes no overhead is #1 priority for me
2021-02-15T18:43:36 < R2COM> static - ok
2021-02-15T18:44:05 < zyp> oh, static? sure
2021-02-15T18:44:31 < zyp> a static method is just a normal function with some sugar
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2021-02-15T18:45:07 < jpa-> hmm actually that i2c driver appears to do dynamic binding
2021-02-15T18:45:17 < zyp> yes
2021-02-15T18:45:21 < R2COM> i dont see it being static method
2021-02-15T18:45:24 < jpa-> zyp: do i remember wrong or did you have some static way to bind to static class methods also?
2021-02-15T18:45:36 < zyp> I don't think I had
2021-02-15T18:45:56 < jpa-> ok
2021-02-15T18:46:13 < zyp> just the mf_vectors stuff
2021-02-15T18:46:22 < zyp> and that's dumb :)
2021-02-15T18:46:24 < zyp> ref. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=d834303
2021-02-15T18:50:55 < zyp> I was thinking through this stuff a few weeks ago and didn't find any solutions that I liked better than just having a template specialization overriding a weak symbol
2021-02-15T18:51:23 < zyp> i.e. requiring the user to define it and call into a driver object
2021-02-15T18:51:36 < jpa-> the way you tie together the interrupt number and function is nifty, but on the other hand it relies on having stuff in correct order in the vector table declaration
2021-02-15T18:52:18 < zyp> the main problem with the mf_vectors stuff is that mf_vectors isn't const, and as such wastes a ton of ram
2021-02-15T18:53:00 < zyp> and then I'm also violating the standard a bit by casting it to a plain function pointer, hence the need for silencing the warning
2021-02-15T18:53:54 < jpa-> hmm yeah, it might be nicer if one could declare only a single IRQ handler to be a member function handler, and then have that have a static pointer field
2021-02-15T18:56:13 < jpa-> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28828957/enum-to-string-in-modern-c11-c14-c17-and-future-c20    i opened this looking for ideas... now i'm sorry i did
2021-02-15T18:58:51 < aandrew> jpa-: ok that's kind of cool
2021-02-15T18:59:34 < aandrew> I always wrote simple foo_to_str(enum foo_t foo) which is just a switch statement that returns const strings
2021-02-15T19:00:01 < jpa-> i'm not suggesting to actually use the stuff from there
2021-02-15T19:00:25 < jpa-> even for a macro lover like me, they're a bit much
2021-02-15T19:01:15 < R2COM> https://github.com/r2com/baretest1
2021-02-15T19:01:16 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T19:01:19 < R2COM> so here is what i tried
2021-02-15T19:01:36 < R2COM> https://github.com/r2com/baretest1/blob/master/src/interrupt.cpp
2021-02-15T19:01:37 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T19:01:44 < R2COM> look at my line #95 here
2021-02-15T19:01:53 < R2COM> https://github.com/r2com/baretest1/blob/master/src/ctim1.h
2021-02-15T19:01:54 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T19:01:55 < zyp> I mean, it boils down to one problem; you need to store extra data, and to do that in a generic way you need to either store an array of extra data for every possible interrupt or spend cycles looking it up in some other map structure
2021-02-15T19:02:09 < R2COM> that is my CTIM1 class with static member isrhandler
2021-02-15T19:02:22 < R2COM> https://github.com/r2com/baretest1/blob/master/src/main.cpp
2021-02-15T19:02:23 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T19:02:31 < R2COM> and here at line #25 i manually trigger it
2021-02-15T19:02:39 < R2COM> https://ctxt.io/2/AACgks3bEA
2021-02-15T19:02:40 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-15T19:02:54 < R2COM> and in this debug session it seems i jumped to that class member
2021-02-15T19:03:09 < jpa-> zyp: but what if you had a copy of bouncer code only per every interrupt that is dynamically redirected?
2021-02-15T19:03:29 < zyp> R2COM, the problem is that non-static member functions takes the this-pointer as an implicit first argument
2021-02-15T19:04:01 < R2COM> yeah but its static for me
2021-02-15T19:04:07 < R2COM> like from what i posted above
2021-02-15T19:04:13 < zyp> if you stuff a non-static member function directly into the vector table, it'll be called with this=garbage and crash as soon as it tried accessing any members
2021-02-15T19:04:19 < jpa-> R2COM: so, did it work?
2021-02-15T19:04:38 < R2COM> well look at my posting of debug session
2021-02-15T19:04:42 < R2COM> it shows it jumped there
2021-02-15T19:04:44 < R2COM> so i guess yea?
2021-02-15T19:04:48 < zyp> no
2021-02-15T19:04:53 < R2COM> wait
2021-02-15T19:04:58 < zyp> try: print this
2021-02-15T19:05:05 < jpa-> zyp: his isrhandler is *static*
2021-02-15T19:05:14 < zyp> ah, right
2021-02-15T19:05:24 < zyp> yeah, that's completely valid
2021-02-15T19:05:29 < zyp> just not very useful :)
2021-02-15T19:05:49 < R2COM> but what i did from debug screen it does seem work 
2021-02-15T19:05:50 < R2COM> ?
2021-02-15T19:05:56 < zyp> sure
2021-02-15T19:05:56 < R2COM> i mean it did jump into class member
2021-02-15T19:06:03 < R2COM> but why you said not useful ?
2021-02-15T19:06:17 < R2COM> its no-overhead, isnt it?
2021-02-15T19:06:24 < zyp> sure
2021-02-15T19:06:41 < jpa-> R2COM: because it cannot access object members, so it is only very slightly better than just having a function outside the class
2021-02-15T19:06:48 < zyp> but what is your isrHandler() gonna do? it can't access non-static members
2021-02-15T19:06:57 < R2COM> well
2021-02-15T19:07:04 < R2COM> how about...ill do members static too then?
2021-02-15T19:07:16 < jpa-> if you only ever have one instance of your class, sure
2021-02-15T19:07:23 < R2COM> this is class handling TIM1 peripheral
2021-02-15T19:07:26 < R2COM> so yes, 1 instance
2021-02-15T19:07:38 < jpa-> are you going to have a separate class for TIM2, TIM3 etc?
2021-02-15T19:07:43 < R2COM> yes
2021-02-15T19:07:43 < jpa-> i.e. duplicate all code? :)
2021-02-15T19:07:46 < R2COM> no
2021-02-15T19:07:48 < zyp> obviously
2021-02-15T19:07:50 < R2COM> TIM2 is architecturally different
2021-02-15T19:07:51 < R2COM> so yes
2021-02-15T19:07:53 < R2COM> diufferent code
2021-02-15T19:08:14 < zyp> R2COM, but at this point, what do you gain over a plain function?
2021-02-15T19:08:24 < R2COM> i treat it like...say GPIO type of stuff, generally happens "once per run" 
2021-02-15T19:08:32 < R2COM> well
2021-02-15T19:08:47 < R2COM> i gain...organization i guess
2021-02-15T19:08:52 < R2COM> style
2021-02-15T19:08:54 < R2COM> whatever
2021-02-15T19:08:55 < R2COM> :)
2021-02-15T19:09:17 < R2COM> i dont know how to answer this cuz its  like "why not do all in C" type of question
2021-02-15T19:09:24 < zyp> I mean, what I want is a way to tie a generic driver (like that i2c one jpa- linked) to a particular instance
2021-02-15T19:09:45 < R2COM> ah...
2021-02-15T19:09:48 < zyp> and making the handler a static member is not making that easier in any way
2021-02-15T19:10:41 < R2COM> static member functions can only access static members right?
2021-02-15T19:10:44 < R2COM> static variables
2021-02-15T19:10:45 < R2COM> ?
2021-02-15T19:10:49 < zyp> yes
2021-02-15T19:11:08 < R2COM> what do i "loose" from making static members and isr functions static?
2021-02-15T19:11:13 < zyp> and static variables have to be emitted explicitly somewhere
2021-02-15T19:11:19 < R2COM> definitely i dont loose any overhead no?
2021-02-15T19:11:29 < R2COM> emitted = occupy ram?
2021-02-15T19:11:30 < zyp> no
2021-02-15T19:11:33 < qyx> any reason SPDX-License-Identifier is written with // in .c and with /* */ in .h?
2021-02-15T19:11:43 < jpa-> theoretically it should be possible to have a static instance like    TIMPeripheral TIM1;   and have a bouncer function that loads a constant value for the "this" pointer
2021-02-15T19:12:13 < zyp> jpa-, yes, I considered this
2021-02-15T19:12:21 < zyp> hang on, let me type up an example
2021-02-15T19:12:41 < R2COM> in terms of application, im doing some special PWM like SVM where there are many readings and trackcings of CCR1,2,3,4 and depending on that TIM1 outputs toggled
2021-02-15T19:12:51 < R2COM> so there will be class who needs to "keep track" of it
2021-02-15T19:13:00 < R2COM> and i guess it will keep track with that isr function
2021-02-15T19:13:05 < R2COM> and static members holding values
2021-02-15T19:13:15 < R2COM> and of course...throught design only 1 instance
2021-02-15T19:13:29 < R2COM> but that i2c example is conceptually different i guess
2021-02-15T19:14:41 < zyp> jpa-, something like this: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/UkqGs
2021-02-15T19:15:08 < R2COM> so like, sensor1, sensor2 both users of i2c and each has own class, and how to make it work with i2c isr yes?
2021-02-15T19:15:18 < jpa-> zyp: yeah
2021-02-15T19:15:24 < zyp> but that requires you still actually emit the static variable somewhere explicitly
2021-02-15T19:15:50 < R2COM> can you tell what you mean emit the static variable?
2021-02-15T19:16:09 < zyp> interrupt_handler<USART1>* interrupt_handler<USART1*>::instance;
2021-02-15T19:16:12 < zyp> and so on
2021-02-15T19:16:25 < zyp> for every single IRQ
2021-02-15T19:18:12 < R2COM> what about this for i2c example:  just specialize the classes
2021-02-15T19:18:13 < R2COM> ?
2021-02-15T19:18:21 < R2COM> and each specialization is static too.. ?
2021-02-15T19:18:27 < R2COM> static member & variable
2021-02-15T19:18:53 < zyp> are you gonna write the vector table by hand?
2021-02-15T19:19:10 < R2COM> i guess?
2021-02-15T19:19:17 < R2COM> hm
2021-02-15T19:24:22 < R2COM> btw here how i decided to make "GPIO" stuff
2021-02-15T19:24:24 < R2COM> https://github.com/r2com/baretest1/blob/master/src/cgpio.h
2021-02-15T19:24:37 < R2COM> in each constructor its initialized depending on application wiring
2021-02-15T19:24:55 < R2COM> and then in main.cpp just CGPIO <GPIO::C>pc; 
2021-02-15T19:25:04 < R2COM> and i can do pc.setpin(N)
2021-02-15T19:25:05 < R2COM> etc
2021-02-15T19:25:31 < R2COM> so far all seems to roll out at compile time so i dont think i have any overheads at all anywhere
2021-02-15T19:27:44 < R2COM> ill complete this file and add all peripherals: https://github.com/r2com/baretest1/blob/master/src/register.h
2021-02-15T19:27:56 < R2COM> at bottom i have my variadic template functions for setting the register bits
2021-02-15T19:28:10 < R2COM> so that i just use comma and dont do OR'ing inside, just convenience thing
2021-02-15T19:37:51 < R2COM> zyp but that seems like idea isnt it? --> handle various i2c peripheral user classes as specialized classes
2021-02-15T19:38:10 < R2COM> vector table points for example to static member
2021-02-15T19:38:22 < R2COM> buit each specialization handles that member in its own needed way?
2021-02-15T19:38:37 < R2COM> hmm
2021-02-15T19:40:39 < R2COM> hmm no
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2021-02-15T20:51:30 < Laurenceb> noise
2021-02-15T20:51:42 < Laurenceb> document 1488 guy replied to muh emailz
2021-02-15T20:52:18 < Laurenceb> >pre 1993 data was stored on reel to reel paper chart loggers before being posted to main office and scanned in once a month
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2021-02-15T21:25:55 < zyp> karlp, no wonder BMP doesn't just work with orbuculum -- you broke it
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2021-02-15T21:39:25 < mawk> lol Laurenceb 
2021-02-15T21:40:13 < Laurenceb> tbf that system ran starting from 1952
2021-02-15T21:45:34 < Laurenceb> they have recently reprocessed the paper archives with new ocr system, but they are stored in yet another csv format O_o
2021-02-15T21:46:55 < Steffanx> y u no accept my HID descriptor windows? :(
2021-02-15T21:47:15 < Steffanx> The usb beagle shows it just fine.
2021-02-15T21:49:05 < fenugrec> looks like the USBIF "HID descriptor tool" hasn't been updated since... '97
2021-02-15T21:52:53 < englishman> can't improve on perfection
2021-02-15T21:59:16 < Steffanx> it still doesnt help me
2021-02-15T22:06:44 < fenugrec> doesnt windows need a special classdescriptor thing at the end with UUIDs and garbage
2021-02-15T22:07:13 < fenugrec> kinda defeats the purpose of HID though
2021-02-15T22:11:30 < Steffanx> it works fine, until i change some physical_minimum to a negative number, im probably overlooking something. As usual.
2021-02-15T22:12:16 < Steffanx> or maybe i can blame mr z for a bug in laks. We'll see :D
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2021-02-15T22:49:19 < karlp> zyp: not my fault....
2021-02-15T22:50:05 < karlp> what
2021-02-15T22:50:08 < karlp> s gone wrong?
2021-02-15T22:52:43 < zyp> well, this commit starts with adding your name: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/commit/b9f8b53
2021-02-15T22:52:51 < zyp> and it also breaks BMP SWO for me :)
2021-02-15T22:53:53 < Steffanx> lol, busted.
2021-02-15T22:54:27 < zyp> although diving deeper into it suggests libusb is to blame
2021-02-15T22:54:42 < karlp> that
2021-02-15T22:54:52 < karlp> s not mine, that's his less than ideal git commit atomicity
2021-02-15T22:55:06 < karlp> are you on master or Devel?
2021-02-15T22:55:15 < karlp> soryr, this repo has switched to "main"
2021-02-15T22:56:28 < karlp> but I mean, Ive fixed their refactoring breakages as recently as https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum/commit/ee27143409955f1aefb4dcd1011699447bf980bf
2021-02-15T22:57:00 < karlp> they're on discord, on the 1bitsy thingy, same discord as orangecrab and glasgow and stuff, and they
2021-02-15T22:57:08 < karlp> re responsive there if you've got breakage
2021-02-15T22:57:10 < zyp> I know, been talking with them since last night
2021-02-15T22:58:31 < PaulFertser> Funny, Dave Marples is the UK chap who spent quite some time sending a raspberry pi board to me :)
2021-02-15T22:58:42 < zyp> anyway, the original issue was orbuculum is not receiving any usb packets
2021-02-15T22:59:05 < zyp> once I saw SWO traffic with the scope I suspected the BMP were dropping them
2021-02-15T22:59:33 < zyp> hooked up the beagle today and found they are going on the wire
2021-02-15T23:00:36 < karlp> they.... got "distracted" adding all this fpga capture stuff, and they kinda stomped on functional things a few times :)
2021-02-15T23:00:53 < karlp> and then they went and refacotred all that jumping fomr ice40 to ecp5 and....
2021-02-15T23:02:44 < zyp> the issue is that orbuculum submits 4096B transfers with a 10ms timeout and BMP only sends 64B packets, so the transfer is neither getting filled before the timeout nor terminated by a short packet
2021-02-15T23:03:36 < zyp> and apparently the darwin libusb backend doesn't return the partial data
2021-02-15T23:04:49 < karlp> oh,helpful.
2021-02-15T23:04:55 < karlp> that seems... uneceesary
2021-02-15T23:05:18 < karlp> I'd... suspect stoyan's work porting bmp to the stlinkv3 hardware and his desire to have usb-hs perhaps?
2021-02-15T23:05:28 < karlp> no basis for such an accusation...
2021-02-15T23:05:54 < zyp> nah, the commit I linked to is the one that changed from 64 to 4096B transfers
2021-02-15T23:06:17 < karlp> from 2017?
2021-02-15T23:06:22 < zyp> yes
2021-02-15T23:06:26 < karlp> seems odd that no-one's used trace on osx since then
2021-02-15T23:06:37 < karlp> I mean, even aandrew has committed osx build fixes since then
2021-02-15T23:06:42 < karlp> but I guess he wasn't using bmp?
2021-02-15T23:06:54 < zyp> that's what I figure too
2021-02-15T23:47:14 < R2COM> i have some warning regarding some features of c++
2021-02-15T23:47:29 < R2COM> warning: inline variables are only available with '-std=c++17' or '-std=gnu++17'
2021-02-15T23:47:50 < R2COM> my compile flag is: -std=c++2a 
2021-02-15T23:48:04 < R2COM> so why am i being given such warning if c++2a is > c++17 ?
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2021-02-15T23:49:58 < R2COM> or maybe its just "informational" warning...
2021-02-15T23:50:14 < R2COM> i wonder why its there then if switch is c++20.. (c++2a)
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--- Day changed Tue Feb 16 2021
2021-02-16T00:07:04 < zyp> gotta love spending hours on something ending up being a oneliner fix: https://github.com/libusb/libusb/pull/876/files
2021-02-16T00:10:10 < qyx> theres some serious defensive programming shit going on
2021-02-16T00:10:11 < qyx> kIOReturnSuccess == tpriv->result
2021-02-16T00:10:43 < zyp> not uncommon
2021-02-16T00:11:32 < qyx> yeah but used if you know what exact errors you want to avoid
2021-02-16T00:11:41 < qyx> ie. you at least think one step forward
2021-02-16T00:18:50 < R2COM> -gnu++20
2021-02-16T00:18:59 < R2COM> enables c++20 features + gnu extensions whatever
2021-02-16T00:19:04 < R2COM> and with latest compiler just downloaded
2021-02-16T00:19:12 < R2COM> still says warning: inline variables are only available with '-std=c++17' or '-std=gnu++17'
2021-02-16T00:19:19 < R2COM> i guess its just informational thing
2021-02-16T00:19:23 < R2COM> can ignore it
2021-02-16T00:21:45 < Laurenceb> fucks sake lunix
2021-02-16T00:21:49 < Laurenceb> lunix mint sucks
2021-02-16T00:22:09 < Laurenceb> my keyboard broke 5 times and now I have the "draggy windows" glitch
2021-02-16T00:22:40 < zyp> well, what do you expect?
2021-02-16T00:22:43 < Laurenceb> lul
2021-02-16T00:22:57 < R2COM> i expect it not give me that warning
2021-02-16T00:23:11 < R2COM> inline static uint8_t svm_timestamp = 1;
2021-02-16T00:23:12 < karlp> zyp: yuck, thats a sad libusb corner
2021-02-16T00:23:12 < R2COM> ^
2021-02-16T00:23:17 < R2COM> thats what im doing inside class
2021-02-16T00:23:18 < Laurenceb> cant even move my mouse over a window
2021-02-16T00:23:23 < R2COM> and its allowed since c++17
2021-02-16T00:23:24 < Laurenceb> without dragging it
2021-02-16T00:23:25 < karlp> why 4k in bmp anyway?
2021-02-16T00:23:32 < R2COM> and im using c++20 flag, so i expect it not give me that warning
2021-02-16T00:23:35 < karlp> 4k in 10ms is reasonable or excessive?
2021-02-16T00:23:39 < zyp> karlp, not bmp, orbuculum
2021-02-16T00:23:42 < karlp> 1024k works around the issue?
2021-02-16T00:23:48 < karlp> right, sorry
2021-02-16T00:24:00 < karlp> I mean, like it cares anyway.
2021-02-16T00:24:10 < karlp> just someone pretending ot optimize ahead of time.
2021-02-16T00:24:16 < karlp> stupid host code shouldn
2021-02-16T00:24:18 < zyp> it's derived from the TRANSFER_SIZE define which is passed around everywhere for the network buffers too
2021-02-16T00:24:21 < karlp> t have been written in C anyway, but....
2021-02-16T00:24:36 < karlp> hrm, I
2021-02-16T00:24:50 < karlp> v just hit 100% completion on this game, i guess its time to do something more useful :)
2021-02-16T00:24:55 < zyp> I bet nobody even thought about the usb part of it when they changed it from 64 to 4096
2021-02-16T00:26:00 < karlp> or why they made it timeout after 10ms too.
2021-02-16T00:26:21 < karlp> so you're suggesting libusb be made more willing, but are you also patching orbuculum to not be so wildly optimistic?
2021-02-16T00:27:27 < zyp> I'm fixing libusb, orbuculum is reasonable enough given that libusb is supposed to return partial data after a timeout
2021-02-16T00:27:55 < zyp> and I might look at the BMP buffering strategy later, always sending 64B packets is stupid
2021-02-16T00:29:18 < zyp> great, orbcat doesn't even sync when I give it -t
2021-02-16T00:29:27 < zyp> let's figure out how to bypass TPIU then
2021-02-16T00:32:25 < karlp> are you putting in sync shit?
2021-02-16T00:32:39 < karlp> in th eold days and old docs, they recommended using sync packets.   (they were wrong)
2021-02-16T00:32:52 < karlp> they also recommended using tpiu framing, they are also wrong there (for most people)
2021-02-16T00:33:13 < karlp> current code change defautls to mostly "just work" again, but might not line up with wghat bmp is doing....
2021-02-16T00:38:20 < zyp> found it; TPIU_FFCR.1 = 0
2021-02-16T00:38:32 < zyp> now I'm getting sane output from orbcat
2021-02-16T00:39:08 < zyp> and that's enough for today, maybe tomorrow I can actually trace something :p
2021-02-16T00:39:18 < qyx> an unrelated riddle, whats the correct number to put in this U32 bitfield? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/p0c88/Screenshot_2021-02-15_23-36-27.png
2021-02-16T00:39:24 < qyx> default I2C address is 0x42
2021-02-16T00:39:40 < qyx> 0x42 doesn't work, 0x84 neither
2021-02-16T00:39:43 < zyp> 0x42 in what format?
2021-02-16T00:39:53 < zyp> :)
2021-02-16T00:39:59 < qyx> in the one libopencm3 eats
2021-02-16T00:40:25 < zyp> what's that graphic from?
2021-02-16T00:40:37 < qyx> The Display Data Channel (DDC) bus is a two-wire communication interface compatible with the
2021-02-16T00:40:40 < qyx> I2C standard (Inter-Integrated Circuit). See our online product selector matrix for availability.
2021-02-16T00:40:46 < qyx> The receiver's DDC address is set to 0x42 by default. This address can be changed by setting the
2021-02-16T00:40:49 < qyx> mode field in UBX-CFG-PRT for DDC accordingly.
2021-02-16T00:40:55 < qyx> u-blox 8 / u-blox M8
2021-02-16T00:40:55 < qyx> Receiver description
2021-02-16T00:40:56 < qyx> Including protocol specification
2021-02-16T00:41:18 < zyp> ah, did you try 0x21 then?
2021-02-16T00:41:39 < zyp> I mean, if that register is set to 0x42, then 7-bit addr is 0x21
2021-02-16T00:42:18 < qyx> I mean, I can communicate with it
2021-02-16T00:42:21 < qyx> using 0x42
2021-02-16T00:42:32 < qyx> unless I set it back
2021-02-16T00:42:43 < zyp> and how do you set it back?
2021-02-16T00:43:11 < qyx> there are no registers, only a command with this 32b bitfield
2021-02-16T00:43:29 < qyx> maybe theres a way to read back that "command"
2021-02-16T00:43:55 < zyp> having r/w be the LSB is the dumbest fucking thing ever
2021-02-16T00:44:12 < qyx> oh you mean
2021-02-16T00:44:30  * qyx drawing on the whiteboard in reverse order
2021-02-16T00:44:35 < zyp> I'm glad usb uses the MSB for in/out on endpoints, no ambiguity
2021-02-16T00:45:34 < qyx> hey, it is 0x42 from both sides
2021-02-16T00:45:58 < zyp> 0x01 and 0x81 are OUT 1 and IN 1 respectively, and if you strip off the direction they are still 1 and nobody would even consider shifting them up
2021-02-16T00:47:57 < qyx> yeah, in every case you have to write 0.42 or 0.84
2021-02-16T00:48:06 < fenugrec> hehe I2C addresses always get me. Shifted ? not shifted ? Shifted but write, or unshifted read ? 
2021-02-16T00:50:18 < karlp> friends don't let friends use i2c....? 
2021-02-16T00:57:49 < fenugrec> I wonder if in 1982 ther was any technical advantage to sending RW bit last
2021-02-16T00:58:44 < Steffanx> Shouldnt let the dutch invent things.
2021-02-16T01:00:25 < mawk> philips <3
2021-02-16T01:00:46 < t4nk_freenode> python.... *COUGHCOUGH*
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2021-02-16T01:17:55 < jly> gooday fokes
2021-02-16T01:18:44 < Steffanx> Whoa, good morning sir
2021-02-16T01:19:18 < jly> o/
2021-02-16T01:22:30 < qyx> watched some unrelated youtubes instead of doing i2c
2021-02-16T01:23:00 < Steffanx> Im proud of you qyx
2021-02-16T01:24:01 < jly> very good
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2021-02-16T01:35:42 < englishman> msp430 plays that i2c address shifting game
2021-02-16T01:35:44 < R2COM> its time for us to enter era when we dont have to do such "obvious" things
2021-02-16T01:35:55 < R2COM> like have some sort of an AI assistant who would debug easy stuff like i2c
2021-02-16T01:36:04 < R2COM> or write obvious code etc
2021-02-16T01:36:15 < englishman> i2c is the worst protocol, except for all the other ones
2021-02-16T01:36:32 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvfqEawgRR8 speaking of youtube
2021-02-16T01:38:56 < qyx> ok, so even the bitfields are little endian
2021-02-16T01:39:05 < qyx> and you have to shift the address << 1
2021-02-16T01:39:17 < qyx> to have 0x42 you have to write 0x84
2021-02-16T01:40:16 < Steffanx> WTf is that jly and how does this terrible acting get a 6.8 on imdb
2021-02-16T01:40:20 < qyx> on on the I2C layer you have to read payload length as uin16_t BE, then inside
2021-02-16T01:40:23 < qyx> there is the UBX protocol
2021-02-16T01:40:33 < qyx> and you have to read the length as uint16_t LE
2021-02-16T01:40:38 < jly> Steffanx: do I stutter bitch?
2021-02-16T01:40:48 < Steffanx> Yea
2021-02-16T01:44:38 < qyx> so it works now
2021-02-16T01:52:49 < karlp> fuck me inductor packages are garbage.
2021-02-16T01:57:36 < zyp> haha
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2021-02-16T02:43:36 < qyx> ok I shorted my psu with a scope
2021-02-16T02:43:39 < qyx> through USB
2021-02-16T02:50:38 < catphish> welcome to the club, everyone has done that
2021-02-16T02:52:17 < catphish> lots of 0v tied to mains GND, oscilloscopes are rarely floating :(
2021-02-16T02:52:24 < catphish> hope you didn't destroy your motherboard
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2021-02-16T03:05:17 < qyx> no, just some caps discharging and sparks
2021-02-16T03:13:18 < kakium69> anyone played with AT commands and LTE modems?
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2021-02-16T03:46:25 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/page-2#post-5167849
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2021-02-16T07:01:53 < R2COM> why
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2021-02-16T07:05:39 < R2COM> cyberpunk2077 time
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2021-02-16T07:39:04 < R2COM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqK881Q4HmU
2021-02-16T07:39:08 < R2COM> club security in russia
2021-02-16T08:48:50 < R2COM> oh shit i should stop watching youtube and go to bed
2021-02-16T08:49:02 < R2COM> btw theres some other platform i heard about
2021-02-16T08:49:05 < R2COM> LBRY or someshit
2021-02-16T08:49:11 < R2COM> like youtube but free
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2021-02-16T09:42:10 < R2COM> oh shit done im off to sleep
2021-02-16T09:45:50 < zyp> have fun
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2021-02-16T11:25:43 < jpa-> bah.. windows is sending me USB SETUP with 76 byte long payload - and nuttx is getting confused because they don't fit in one 64 byte DATA packet
2021-02-16T11:27:56 < karlp> what is in the setup that long?
2021-02-16T11:28:03 < karlp> I seem to recall hearing about a similar issue a while ago
2021-02-16T11:29:31 < jpa-> just zero bytes it likes to include for no good reason
2021-02-16T11:30:17 < jpa-> apparently the rndis driver on PC side somehow uses same buffer length for send and receive, so if it wants to receive 76 bytes, it'll send 76 bytes also
2021-02-16T11:30:32 < karlp> is this your x days rndis stops working issue?
2021-02-16T11:30:48 < jpa-> yes, i've finally made progress on it
2021-02-16T11:30:52 < mawk> ah
2021-02-16T11:31:02 < mawk> how did you relate windows sending the weird utf-16 string to that?
2021-02-16T11:31:36 < jpa-> turns out my firmware messes up replying to a query request - and 18 seconds later windows will timeout, but communication works in the meanwhile.. so until I finally got a timeout log message with event tracing, i didn't know to look so far back
2021-02-16T11:31:56 < mawk> ah right
2021-02-16T11:32:07 < mawk> the famous error buried among tons of logs
2021-02-16T11:32:10 < jpa-> mawk: it's actually the same as above: it is just sending me an uninitialized buffer - and because the buffer is 76 bytes long, the last 12 bytes get left over - and they are random garbage from memory
2021-02-16T11:32:33 < mawk> could you turn that into a security vulnerability?
2021-02-16T11:32:37 < mawk> uninitialized buffer sound tasty
2021-02-16T11:32:49 < mawk> ah no ok it's you sending it
2021-02-16T11:32:59 < mawk> ah no I'm not properly awake
2021-02-16T11:33:05 < mawk> it's windows sending you uninitialized memory
2021-02-16T11:33:10 < jpa-> i expect the API inside windows goes something like      void DoRNDISRequest(NDIS_Command_Buf *buf) {  rndis_send_command(buf, buf->len); rndis_wait_reply_irq(); rndis_receive_reply(buf, buf->len); }   
2021-02-16T11:33:35 < mawk> so you control buf->len after you reply?
2021-02-16T11:33:41 < mawk> in your reply I mean
2021-02-16T11:33:50 < jpa-> well at the point where you can plug in random USB devices and have them act as network card, there are much worse vulnerabilities than receiving a dozen uninitialized bytes of kernel RAM
2021-02-16T11:34:05 < mawk> well windows is supposed to be secure against that
2021-02-16T11:34:07 < mawk> when it's in a locked state
2021-02-16T11:34:18 < mawk> but yeah there are probably dozen of holes
2021-02-16T11:34:34 < mawk> the last one I looked at was plugging in a fake ethernet adapter that tells the computer it needs to do an update or something, and that lets you run code
2021-02-16T11:36:09 < zyp> jpa-, i.e. nuttx doesn't deal with a control write with a multi packet data stage?
2021-02-16T11:36:27 < zyp> sounds like a weird issue
2021-02-16T11:36:56 < zyp> did nobody implement a DFU bootloader with it or something?
2021-02-16T11:37:23 < karlp> (there's a gadget 0 test for that explicitly iirc)
2021-02-16T11:50:46 < jpa-> zyp: hmm, good question - but it does not appear to deal with it
2021-02-16T11:51:43 < jpa-> at least the request is dispatched to class driver as soon as the first RXFIFO interrupt for the data phase comes, and it will discard anything beyond 64 bytes *if* it is already in rxfifo.. but if it isn't yet, it'll end up NAKing the remainder indefinitely
2021-02-16T11:53:15 < jpa-> https://github.com/apache/incubator-nuttx/blob/master/arch/arm/src/stm32/stm32_otgfsdev.c#L1604     that could *potentially* work if CONFIG_USBDEV_SETUP_MAXDATASIZE was more than 64.. but i'm not sure if it could somehow just leave stuff waiting in RXFIFO until the whole payload is received, after all there can be traffic on other endpoints in the meanwhile
2021-02-16T11:54:21 < zyp> no, leaving stuff in the RXFIFO is not okay
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2021-02-16T15:06:21 < jpa-> my silly test setup: windows pinging RNDIS device, logs it to samba network share; linux capturing USB traffic using logic analyzer at 100MB/s, sigrok is too slow to decode it in realtime so i just lz4 it into files; then a script checks the log from samba share and deletes files that are older than 10 minutes unless ping failures occur
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2021-02-16T15:28:42 < karlp> oh, that sounds awesome...
2021-02-16T15:36:17 < jpa-> annoying part is that i'll probably have to run this all week and weekend, and with two test laptops it takes up my whole desk
2021-02-16T15:36:32 < jpa-> + the fan noise..
2021-02-16T15:47:27 < karlp> ok, sofng, xunpu, and korean hroparts all have ~identical footprint microsim push/push holder,s but I cant' find the western part it is/isn't a clone of.
2021-02-16T15:47:43 < karlp> sofng has a clone of a molex one though, so... yay? victory and move on, or figuire out the rest...
2021-02-16T15:47:50 < karlp> how much autism is there to go aroudn today?
2021-02-16T16:01:39  * Laurenceb is zooommminngggg
2021-02-16T16:01:45 < Laurenceb> oh my god I'm gunna zoom
2021-02-16T16:03:18 < Laurenceb> Dubai princess has some extreme horse face going on
2021-02-16T16:03:22 < Laurenceb> do not want
2021-02-16T16:08:53 < mawk> Laurenceb the zoomer
2021-02-16T16:09:39 < fenugrec> does ##stm32 have a favorite method of having a lightweight assert() implementation  ? (i.e. just need the BKPT part, not the whole  printf(FILENAME:LINE... ) dependencies and ton of strings etc
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2021-02-16T16:14:31 < Laurenceb> wait so Bill Gates is doing the covid vaccine
2021-02-16T16:14:43 < Laurenceb> and it will need annual patches and updates
2021-02-16T16:14:49 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted this
2021-02-16T16:29:12 < jpa-> fenugrec: if it is just for yourself, void assert_fail() { while(1); }   works fine
2021-02-16T16:30:01 < jpa-> if it is going to be in a shipped product, you'll want to at the bare minimum blink out the line number on a led or something
2021-02-16T16:30:37 < bitmask> how do you guys read thermocouples, does your multimeter have the function or do you use something else
2021-02-16T16:32:45 < jpa-> multimeter
2021-02-16T16:32:53 < mouseghost> Laurenceb, they said it will already?
2021-02-16T16:33:18 < fenugrec> jpa-, yeah, shipped product would have a slightly more elaborate mechanism, but I'd like to commandeer / wrap the standard assert() lines. Currently I have "custom_assert()" that just does BKPT ; while(1) would still allow interrupts but I want Full Stoppage
2021-02-16T16:34:57 < mouseghost> i mean, you could disable interrupts..
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2021-02-16T16:36:28 < jpa-> fenugrec: one annoying thing about standard assert.h headers is that they often declare the __assert_fail() as "noreturn" - which causes the optimizer to throw away all useful local variables etc. that you would want to see in debugger
2021-02-16T16:36:48 < jpa-> you can throw in __disable_irq(); call if you want
2021-02-16T16:37:09 < fenugrec> mouseghost, advantage of BKPT is if you have a debugger attached, you land there automatically with the core in Debug state
2021-02-16T16:37:18 < jpa-> i usually also add any safing stuff like disabling motors and turning off power to things
2021-02-16T16:37:35 < jpa-> even though i have a one-shot timer that turns such things off also
2021-02-16T16:37:54 < fenugrec> jpa-, good point re noreturn, although it can't "throw away" everything that's used later in the function...
2021-02-16T16:38:09 < jpa-> fenugrec: why couldn't it?
2021-02-16T16:39:11 < fenugrec> well, at compile-time it doesn't know the result of the assert check, so what can it deduce about variable use ? I mean, stuff that was on the stack will stay on the stack, what else can disappear ?
2021-02-16T16:39:21 < jpa-> (it will generally throw away all the caller-save registers, plus whatever registers and stack it will decide to use for loading the arguments for assert_fail() call)
2021-02-16T16:39:44 < fenugrec> hmm I see what you mean
2021-02-16T16:39:45 < jpa-> fenugrec: usually the assert check is inlined by the header, because it would be ridicuously slow otherwise - and only the assert_fail() results in function call
2021-02-16T16:44:42 < karlp> shipped product has watchdog, so assert just does while(1) and then you get a restart...
2021-02-16T16:44:58 < karlp> if it restarts ok, reset reason counters are incremented that cna be read out...
2021-02-16T16:45:10 < karlp> if you see watchdog reset coutner going up, and you bother to check.... have a look closer?
2021-02-16T16:45:35 < jpa-> i usually try to catch as much data as possible from on-field failures
2021-02-16T16:45:58 < jpa-> a *lot* of debugging i've done just from a photo of a stack dump displayed on screen :)
2021-02-16T16:46:08 < karlp> i you've got somewhere to save it I guess I'd try harder :)
2021-02-16T16:46:31 < fenugrec> heh, I'm hoping I can still talk to the external eeprom and dump a few bytes in there
2021-02-16T16:47:01 < jpa-> in other devices, i've had 256 or 512 bytes allocated as "noinit" and copy registers & piece of stack there, and after automatic restart send it by a message somewhere
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2021-02-16T16:47:31 < jpa-> oh, and firmware version.. always include firmware version
2021-02-16T16:47:48 < fenugrec> yea, that's probably a more useful idea. Yes, I always include firmware version & git hash now P)
2021-02-16T16:48:24 < fenugrec> "-what version are you running ? -I dunno, I downloaded it -..."
2021-02-16T16:49:35 < zyp> extra fun when there's a ton of third party forks of your firmware :)
2021-02-16T16:49:52 < Laurenceb> sheet
2021-02-16T16:50:03 < Laurenceb> >everyone at the uni has coronavirus
2021-02-16T16:50:05 < jpa-> "what version are you running? i don't know, we shipped whatever what was newest at some point 3 years ago" "was it an actual tested release? probably not."
2021-02-16T16:50:56 < Laurenceb> my phd supervisor is in intensive care O_o
2021-02-16T16:51:26 < jpa-> Laurenceb: do you have it too?
2021-02-16T16:52:35 < Laurenceb> nope I dont work at the uni any more luckily
2021-02-16T16:52:50 < Laurenceb> they are mostly doing remote lectures but still all managed to catch it 
2021-02-16T16:52:53 < kakium69> Laurenceb: your uni still open?
2021-02-16T16:53:15 < Laurenceb> semi open
2021-02-16T16:53:26 < Laurenceb> building are open but only about 15% staff in
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2021-02-16T16:56:59 < karlp> thanks TE, Question 4
2021-02-16T16:57:01 < karlp> When should I use a micro SIM connector?
2021-02-16T16:57:06 < karlp> Answer 4
2021-02-16T16:57:08 < karlp> When the device requires the use of a micro SIM card.
2021-02-16T16:57:20 < fenugrec> unrelated : any tips to analyze the layout of the .heap area ? I'm in a hardfault with some corruption in there, looking at the previous chunks would be helpful
2021-02-16T16:57:58 < jpa-> someone must have felt very smart when writing that Q&A
2021-02-16T16:58:23 < jpa-> fenugrec: yeah, check your malloc() source code, usually it is pretty simple
2021-02-16T16:58:49 < jpa-> something like linked list of free blocks, and allocated blocks starting with their size
2021-02-16T16:59:20 < fenugrec> jpa-, right, it's the newlib one I believe. Was hoping for some elite gdb command to ... go through all symbols and find which ones are in the heap, or something. 
2021-02-16T16:59:57 < jpa-> no symbols are in heap area
2021-02-16T17:01:01 < fenugrec> No of course, I meant if say a global var or a struct has a member that points in there.
2021-02-16T17:01:33 < jpa-> there are commands to search for a particular value in ram
2021-02-16T17:01:51 < jpa-> but if you are so lost that you don't know which pointers will have dynamically allocated stuff in them, that's pretty bad :)
2021-02-16T17:02:33 < fenugrec> there's a few, and it (should be) only a bunch of callocs at init. I could go through them by hand, there's probably a dozen
2021-02-16T17:03:21 < jpa-> if you know when the corruption occurs, you could take a dump of heap area before and after, and binary diff them to see what areas changed and what data was there and what overwrote what
2021-02-16T17:04:57 < jpa-> i've also used this:     b malloc    commands 1    bt    finish   p /x $r0   continue   end         to automatically log what code got what pointer from malloc
2021-02-16T17:05:57 < fenugrec> yep I have a few things noted for the next time, but it's hard to reproduce
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2021-02-16T18:42:11 < qyx> Xiaomi Mi Temperature and Humidity Monitor 2
2021-02-16T18:42:18 < qyx> it sells here for ~10€
2021-02-16T18:42:42 < qyx> I am curious if it uses some common nrf
2021-02-16T18:44:58 < Ultrasauce> telink tlsr82 according to my googles
2021-02-16T18:50:29 < bitmask> hmmm should I get the brymen BM789 or the BM869s
2021-02-16T19:02:15 < Thorn> is there a standard pinout for male and female pin headers? (they should be mirrored so that pin numbers match when you plug one into another)
2021-02-16T19:02:50 < englishman> with what signals on the pins?
2021-02-16T19:03:31 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-16T19:05:33 < Steffanx> Qyx I wanted to buy those, but I missed its bt and not zigbee:(
2021-02-16T19:05:40 < Steffanx> Want zigbee 
2021-02-16T19:06:56 -!- ggonzalez [~ggonzalez@222.203.191.92.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-02-16T19:09:27 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/s5rC9TF
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2021-02-16T19:13:48 < kakium69> Steffanx: everybody iceskating now?
2021-02-16T19:14:08 < Steffanx> No
2021-02-16T19:14:13 < Steffanx> Its melting
2021-02-16T19:14:24 < Steffanx> Its like +7 °C
2021-02-16T19:14:44 < bitmask> melting here too
2021-02-16T19:16:29 < Steffanx> Just during the weekend  and a few days before, kakimir 
2021-02-16T19:16:47 < Laurenceb> Dubai thot patrolled
2021-02-16T19:16:49 < Steffanx> But its done since, monday 
2021-02-16T19:16:51 < Laurenceb> based and redpilled
2021-02-16T19:16:56 < Steffanx> Ok Laurenceb 
2021-02-16T19:17:09 < Steffanx> Go back to zoom
2021-02-16T19:17:20 < qyx> he has a pomodoro break
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2021-02-16T19:17:30 < qyx> lets wait 4 more minutes
2021-02-16T19:22:34 < Steffanx> So no more curfew, for now, mawk. 
2021-02-16T19:22:51 < Steffanx> Judge Judy cancelled it.
2021-02-16T19:23:01 < mawk> not exactly though?
2021-02-16T19:23:07 < mawk> government interjected appeal
2021-02-16T19:23:11 < mawk> and it's suspensive right?
2021-02-16T19:23:26 < mawk> there will be a hearing on the background of the case later
2021-02-16T19:24:48 < Steffanx> They are trying, but.. now the other party tries to disqualify the judge
2021-02-16T19:24:58 < Steffanx> Lol. Such drama
2021-02-16T19:25:36 < Steffanx> Because prejustice 
2021-02-16T19:25:37 -!- yukam [~yukam@2a00:1370:8125:6673:1ff3:6297:c530:85ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2021-02-16T19:26:36 < Steffanx> So if nothing happens before 9 PM, youre free to go 😅
2021-02-16T19:33:04 -!- yukam [~yukam@109-252-105-15.nat.spd-mgts.ru] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-16T19:35:15 < fenugrec> where does ST hide the release notes for cubeF0 usb stack
2021-02-16T19:46:12 < fenugrec> ah. https://raw.githack.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeF0/master/Release_Notes.html . Surprise, 3 bugfixes in USB code , each of which could explain my issue
2021-02-16T19:48:54 < Steffanx> 🥳
2021-02-16T19:50:11 < qyx> Steffanx: I've just read that, fun
2021-02-16T19:50:12 < qyx> I mean, wtf
2021-02-16T19:51:43 < qyx> here, as the vaccination continues, age distribution of the patients changes, there are mainly 51-60y in hospitals
2021-02-16T19:52:09 < Steffanx> Here it changes all the time as well. Becausd lobbying. 
2021-02-16T19:52:24 < qyx> but the number doesn't go down for some reason
2021-02-16T19:52:47 < Steffanx> And then there are doubts about effectiveness for certain age groups and what not 
2021-02-16T19:53:17 < qyx> now besides the .uk mutation we finally have another .sk/.cz one
2021-02-16T19:53:41 < qyx> we cannot be beaten by .uk, we have our own
2021-02-16T19:55:51 -!- tcth [~tcth@77.109.191.152] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-16T19:56:32 < englishman> if UK jumped off a bridge would you do it too
2021-02-16T19:57:18 < Steffanx> You sound like my mom, englishman 
2021-02-16T19:57:38 < englishman> thank you
2021-02-16T19:57:42 < Steffanx> "If X jumps into a ditch, would you do it too?"
2021-02-16T19:57:46 < englishman> your mother is a wonderful person
2021-02-16T19:59:03 < Steffanx> Yes 
2021-02-16T20:00:21  * PaulFertser spent the whole day debugging exactly the same bug I fixed in Nov 2019; and his coworker have forgotten to pull patch
2021-02-16T20:00:29 < Steffanx> :)
2021-02-16T20:01:41 < qyx> If you were a GNSS signal, what would you look like after travelling through a 15m of RG174
2021-02-16T20:02:03 < englishman> GNSS->gnss
2021-02-16T20:02:58 < englishman> well it already travelled 20,000km whats a few more m
2021-02-16T20:04:30 < bitmask> brymen bm869s ordered, because... why not
2021-02-16T20:06:15 < fenugrec> qyx, -140dBm? easy
2021-02-16T20:07:35 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-16T20:07:51 < Steffanx> Free money bitmask ?
2021-02-16T20:08:00 < bitmask> of course
2021-02-16T20:08:13 < bitmask> with more coming
2021-02-16T20:08:35 < Steffanx> Damn. Give us some
2021-02-16T20:08:42 < Steffanx> We always supported you
2021-02-16T20:09:01 < bitmask> haha
2021-02-16T20:09:11 < bitmask> heres 5 bucks
2021-02-16T20:09:25 < bitmask> you have to come get it though
2021-02-16T20:09:44 < Steffanx> Alright. Not today though 
2021-02-16T20:09:47 < bitmask> k
2021-02-16T20:10:26 < bitmask> ive never had a name brand multimeter before :P
2021-02-16T20:10:52 < bitmask> Only reason I went so high up on the model list is cause I wanted two thermocouple ports
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2021-02-16T20:11:40 < bitmask> its like 5-6 years old though which is the only thing that bothered me
2021-02-16T20:14:37 < Steffanx> I have that dmm too. Its huuuuge
2021-02-16T20:15:44 < bitmask> oh shit, seriously?
2021-02-16T20:15:48 < bitmask> haha i forgot to check that
2021-02-16T20:16:01 < Steffanx> Its quite larger, yes
2021-02-16T20:16:25 < bitmask> grr, buyers remorse instantly
2021-02-16T20:16:29 < Steffanx> Nah
2021-02-16T20:16:43 < Steffanx> Its a fine dmm imho
2021-02-16T20:17:23 < bitmask> 208x103x64.5  jesus
2021-02-16T20:17:51 < Steffanx> Thats cm.
2021-02-16T20:17:57 < Steffanx> Mm
2021-02-16T20:17:58 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-02-16T20:18:10 < bitmask> haha yea
2021-02-16T20:18:11 < Steffanx> *mm
2021-02-16T20:18:29 < bitmask> 8"
2021-02-16T20:19:02 < bitmask> the one I have now is 132mm long
2021-02-16T20:19:42 < bitmask> ahh alright I think I can deal with it
2021-02-16T20:19:57 < Steffanx> Yes you can
2021-02-16T20:20:12 -!- rajkosto [~Rajko@cable-178-149-125-126.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-02-16T20:21:52 < bitmask> :P
2021-02-16T20:24:03 < bitmask> how is dutchland doing with covid
2021-02-16T20:25:26 < fenugrec> that bryment doesnt measure inductance, and diode tester is limited to 2V (too low for a lot of LEDs)
2021-02-16T20:26:39 < fenugrec> but Hz mode works down at 100mV , 10hz-200k, that's nice
2021-02-16T20:28:59 < bitmask> does 1MHz for logic
2021-02-16T20:29:18 < fenugrec> open circuit voltage in ohms mode is " < 3VDC for 500o range", a bit high for some stuff maybe ? careful probing on a low-voltage circuit
2021-02-16T20:29:40 < bitmask> k
2021-02-16T20:30:01 < bitmask> I think the diode is 3V? still lower than id like
2021-02-16T20:30:16 < bitmask> newer models are 15V
2021-02-16T20:30:26 < fenugrec> yea i may be wrong about the diode, it says " Range 2.00V  ,... open circuit voltage 3.5V"
2021-02-16T20:30:37 < bitmask> oh hmm
2021-02-16T20:30:50 < Steffanx> And it does uA :) 
2021-02-16T20:31:32 < fenugrec> yeah, my old fluke87 too, albeit with less digits )
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2021-02-16T20:34:03 < qyx> 15 s after hot-start, time accuracy estimate is < 20 ns
2021-02-16T20:34:07 < qyx> well done swissmen
2021-02-16T20:35:20 < qyx> (I suppose the required 200 us will be easy to achieve)
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2021-02-16T21:32:35 < fenugrec> yay, down to 23 open browser tabs
2021-02-16T21:34:18 < Steffanx> its easy to close tabs you know
2021-02-16T21:35:18 < zyp> hmm, looks like I have 74
2021-02-16T21:35:28 < qyx> you know, there are circuit breakers
2021-02-16T21:35:31 < qyx> and browsers have bugs
2021-02-16T21:36:13 < zyp> I've started using tab groups
2021-02-16T21:36:25 < zyp> to keep topics separate
2021-02-16T21:36:46 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-16T21:36:53 < qyx> isnt it an unwanted congnitive load
2021-02-16T21:37:30 < zyp> got one group of tabs for stuff related to laks, got another group for some other stuff I were working on
2021-02-16T21:41:14 < fenugrec> yeah, I'm moving back good old "bookmarks"... I don't need to have 6 tabs open for something I shopped for a month ago, etc
2021-02-16T21:42:02 < fenugrec> hehe tab groups, for the true tab junkie
2021-02-16T21:43:58 < fenugrec> sometimes the best is to close eyes and spam ctrl+w a dozen times
2021-02-16T21:44:12 < qyx> you mean a couple of hudred times
2021-02-16T21:44:52 < qyx> my bookmarks are just an alias for /dev/null it seems
2021-02-16T21:45:22 < englishman> close all your tabs at the end of each pomodoro
2021-02-16T21:45:25 < qyx> with the added complexity of selecting a legit name for the bookmark
2021-02-16T21:45:26 < englishman> that should be a rule
2021-02-16T21:45:44 < qyx> your work task can span multiple cycles
2021-02-16T21:45:55 < fenugrec> englishman, harsh. Need to re-login to email & stuff everytime
2021-02-16T21:46:29 < fenugrec> I'm starting with "tab bar must fit in screen, no scrolling"
2021-02-16T21:47:29 < englishman> i dont need to re-login to email when the tab closes
2021-02-16T21:47:32 < englishman> not even with shitty zimbra
2021-02-16T21:48:40 < fenugrec> one of my mail providers exceeds yours in shittyness
2021-02-16T21:49:53 < englishman> yes
2021-02-16T21:50:01 < englishman> maybe 2 pomodoros to figure that out
2021-02-16T21:50:28 < fenugrec> what's this pomodoro nonsense
2021-02-16T21:53:47 < zyp> I mean, one of the good parts about tab groups is that I can decide «ok, not gonna do anything more on this any time soon» and close out the entire group easily
2021-02-16T21:56:09 < Steffanx> not save it for later use?
2021-02-16T21:56:30 < zyp> nah
2021-02-16T21:56:57 < zyp> the point of leaving a tab open is to save the time it takes to google something :p
2021-02-16T21:57:43 < zyp> I don't believe in bookmarks -- IME it's quicker to just refind something with google
2021-02-16T21:58:20 < Ultrasauce> they both share the same failure point in the source going away anyway
2021-02-16T21:58:41 < zyp> was about to say, bookmarks tend to turn into a dead link collection
2021-02-16T21:58:47 < fenugrec> web.archive.org for those valuable dead links
2021-02-16T21:59:13 < zyp> google will at least reindex the source and normally find the content at the new url
2021-02-16T21:59:44 < zyp> oh well
2021-02-16T21:59:54 < zyp> anyway, time to try orbtop
2021-02-16T22:00:17 < zyp> now that SWO works, it's time to see if it can actually be useful :)
2021-02-16T22:04:40 < Steffanx> STAY IN mawk , STAY IN.
2021-02-16T22:04:53 < Steffanx> lol.
2021-02-16T22:05:07 < mawk> I'm in Steffanx don't worry
2021-02-16T22:05:24 < Steffanx> alright alright
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2021-02-16T22:10:10 < englishman> slow moving but interesting talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6sh097Dk5k
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2021-02-16T22:43:14 < Ultrasauce> whoever did the audio needs a stern talking to
2021-02-16T22:45:29 < Steffanx> Except for the intro tune being a bit loud and the oidio perhaps being a bit muffed, whats wrong mr Ultrasauce ?
2021-02-16T22:46:20 < Ultrasauce> the high end is rolled off to the point where it makes the speech less intelligible
2021-02-16T22:46:27 < Ultrasauce> likely a hamfisted response to feedback
2021-02-16T22:57:32 < qyx> for those bored doing ##stm32, have you seen "missionary bush pilot" yt channel?
2021-02-16T23:10:37 < Steffanx> nein, linky?
2021-02-16T23:12:55 < qyx> this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDcwoeXAmQ8
2021-02-16T23:28:05 < Laurenceb> Whe you visit Abbey Wood, you will feel like you are in Nigeria, you get to meet loud and proud Nigerians on every street, who speak your language and hang out.
2021-02-16T23:29:47 < Laurenceb> this guide to London seems troll worthy
2021-02-16T23:37:47 < qyx> my tcxo seems to be quite off
2021-02-16T23:37:53 < qyx> compared to this ublox
2021-02-16T23:38:42 < qyx> one count per 26 s
2021-02-16T23:39:12 < Ultrasauce> at what frequency?
2021-02-16T23:39:14 < qyx> thats > 1 ppm
2021-02-16T23:39:23 < qyx> 32768
2021-02-16T23:39:54 < qyx> ublox reports 13 ns accuracy of its timepulse
2021-02-16T23:41:21 < Ultrasauce> isnt 1~2 ppm typical for a txco
2021-02-16T23:41:28 < karlp> wow, that bm869s is ~twice the size of my bm859s, and i thoguht it was big
2021-02-16T23:43:00 < Laurenceb> yeah >1ppm is already good
2021-02-16T23:43:23  * Laurenceb did a diy tcxo using stm32 temp sensor
2021-02-16T23:44:40 < qyx> the ublox stabilises in ~5 seconds to few tens of ns
2021-02-16T23:44:54 < qyx> so I can run it hourly
2021-02-16T23:44:55 < Laurenceb> impressive
2021-02-16T23:45:20 < Laurenceb> yeah I'd try to run some sort of calibration routine for the tcxo
2021-02-16T23:45:37 < Laurenceb> maybe use the stm32 temp sensor to give an extra level of adjustment
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2021-02-16T23:46:03 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eDpsr
2021-02-16T23:46:34 < qyx> after 6 s it outputs 1PPS and reports < 30 ns
2021-02-16T23:46:49 < qyx> (1PPS is disabled in no-lock)
2021-02-16T23:47:09 < Laurenceb> is that via SWO ?
2021-02-16T23:47:24 < qyx> no, serial
2021-02-16T23:47:36 < Laurenceb> ah
2021-02-16T23:48:53 < Ultrasauce> its pretty convenient to have a bunch of cesium clocks flying around
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--- Day changed Wed Feb 17 2021
2021-02-17T00:07:41 < Laurenceb> I wonder if autism counts as a disability
2021-02-17T00:07:50 < Laurenceb> for become an ESA ass-tronaught
2021-02-17T00:08:57 < Steffanx> sure. you're a perfect candidate mr Laurenceb 
2021-02-17T00:09:06 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Sl8JC my firmware is good at doing nothing
2021-02-17T00:10:18 < qyx> can you sleep in STOPx?
2021-02-17T00:11:28 < englishman> thats awesome qyx
2021-02-17T00:11:34 < zyp> qyx, in what sense?
2021-02-17T00:13:42 < zyp> the async framework should work with any sleep modes, it's not tied to anything in particular
2021-02-17T00:15:22 < qyx> englishman: what
2021-02-17T00:15:56 < englishman> the youtube chan
2021-02-17T00:16:01 < qyx> oh yeah
2021-02-17T00:19:15 < zyp> qyx, I figure the problem for deeper sleep modes is deciding when to enter them, and I guess a simple solution is to classify each awaitable with allowable sleep modes
2021-02-17T00:20:18 < qyx> I decided on not deciding and I enter stop1 when the idle task is ready to run
2021-02-17T00:20:55 < qyx> even if i woke every "tick" at 1000 Hz and spent 10 us in wakeup delay, it is considerable power saving
2021-02-17T00:21:08 < qyx> now I run my freertos with ~ 100 uA
2021-02-17T00:21:11 < zyp> e.g. if one task is in the middle of some communication and is awaiting another byte or packet or something, the task gets tagged with «sleep only» when suspended
2021-02-17T00:21:23 < qyx> oh, yes, thats a problem
2021-02-17T00:21:38 < zyp> and once idle, enter STOP if all tasks allows that, otherwise enter SLEEP
2021-02-17T00:22:00 < qyx> especially for usart sending
2021-02-17T00:22:18 < qyx> the clock dies during transmission
2021-02-17T00:22:47 < zyp> I guess it'll be something like the android wakelocks
2021-02-17T00:23:04 < qyx> I need to reinvent something
2021-02-17T00:23:32 < qyx> another possibility is to poll until sent :P
2021-02-17T00:23:42 < zyp> hmm, in that case it doesn't have to be tied into the async system at all
2021-02-17T00:24:06 < zyp> stuff that cares about sleep modes just grabs a wakelock when needed, idle handler checks wakelock state
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2021-02-17T00:25:35 < zyp> I'm also designing the task scheduler without a central timing source
2021-02-17T00:26:14 < zyp> I figure there's not really any reason to mix that up, and there can be multiple timing schedulers from different sources
2021-02-17T00:26:41 < zyp> e.g. systick and rtc
2021-02-17T00:27:50 < zyp> although that would benefit again from tying into the wakelocks
2021-02-17T00:28:11 < zyp> doing a systick sleep would hold a wakelock, doing a rtc sleep would not
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2021-02-17T00:30:31 < zyp> and all of this can of course be done with traditional multithreading as well :)
2021-02-17T00:31:38 < zyp> in freertos you could easily implement a custom sleep() by calling vTaskSuspend() and later waking it up with vTaskResume()
2021-02-17T00:47:06 < mawk> I tried to open an action wallet at my bank
2021-02-17T00:47:16 < mawk> they had me take some kind of quizz to verify I'm not about to lose all my money
2021-02-17T00:47:18 < mawk> apparently I passed it
2021-02-17T00:47:46 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_2021021623474106.png
2021-02-17T00:50:22 < englishman> stonks account
2021-02-17T00:50:26 < englishman> actions is french
2021-02-17T00:51:05 < englishman> will you be responsible and buy some diversified etfs
2021-02-17T00:51:19 < englishman> or yolo your life savings on a stonk you read about on twitter?
2021-02-17T00:53:05 < jadew> what does yolo mean?
2021-02-17T00:53:36 < karlp> you only lol occasionally.
2021-02-17T00:53:55 < jadew> wouldn't have figured that out...
2021-02-17T00:54:21 < jadew> looks like everyone is getting into stocks
2021-02-17T00:54:27 < jadew> what are you buying mawk?
2021-02-17T00:54:44 < englishman> an astounding amount of capital has flowed into stonks in 2020
2021-02-17T00:55:08 < jadew> yeah, it will probably be retracted tho
2021-02-17T00:55:10 < englishman> probably follows the excess savings numbers
2021-02-17T00:55:25 < jadew> so I don't think even ETFs are as safe as usual
2021-02-17T00:55:38 < englishman> 8% of Canadians opened a self-directed investment account in 2020
2021-02-17T00:56:26 < jadew> the theory is that when everyone is excited, the market is about to crash
2021-02-17T00:56:39 < karlp> autismmmmmm: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/sim-card-notes.md
2021-02-17T00:56:59 < englishman> I suspect there will be a shift this year against growth
2021-02-17T00:57:00 < jadew> because everyone puts all their money into whatever asset, and then they have no more money, so the growth stops
2021-02-17T00:58:00 < jadew> englishman, so what do you think a safe investment would be? to keep you shielded from the downward trend?
2021-02-17T00:58:42 < R2COM> safe investment is large oil companies nigga
2021-02-17T00:59:17 < jadew> R2COM, yeah, but large oil companies have been steadily declining both in relation to themselves and to the market average (even more)
2021-02-17T00:59:22 < R2COM> ...
2021-02-17T00:59:32 < jadew> I think in many cases the dividend ratio is lower than the decline ratio
2021-02-17T00:59:35 < englishman> actually yes I've moved to banks and fossil fuels
2021-02-17T00:59:52 < englishman> for long term stuff
2021-02-17T01:00:20 < jadew> hmm, I guess it makes sense, safe bets would be stocks that are already undervalued
2021-02-17T01:00:30 < jadew> because they wouldn't crash with the market, at least they shouldn't crash as bad
2021-02-17T01:00:36 < R2COM> i mean large oil company (insert Exxon, Chevron..whatever) are serious organizations (unlike shit amazon or tesla with artificial value of stock), and they have liek >30 refineries, and reserves as well.... they can supply the world for next 50 years easily with oil, which WILL (unlike green idiots saying) stay as main source of energy at least for another 100 years
2021-02-17T01:01:12 < R2COM> its not like "average big company" thing, its a strategic-like entity in terms of economic and industrial potential
2021-02-17T01:01:44 < jadew> yeah, it's weird that these kind of proven companies are going down in value (like PFE - the one I invested in)
2021-02-17T01:01:46 < R2COM> and whatever they operate on (oil and its derivateives, i.e. not just fuel but literally anything-> plastic and shit ..) is main resource for countries to exist and produce
2021-02-17T01:02:19 < R2COM> its not weird, its just tendency developed as a result of few things going on in the world, both economically and politically
2021-02-17T01:02:23 < R2COM> but its not going anywhere away
2021-02-17T01:02:42 < jadew> I wonder how oil usage has evolved over the years
2021-02-17T01:02:57 < R2COM> and i *doubt* that there will be 100% alternative energy (not those shitty wind generators or sun stuff) sources discovered/invented anywhere soon
2021-02-17T01:03:04 < jadew> I bet it's roughly steady or going up
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2021-02-17T01:04:16 < jadew> https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/oil-consumption-per-capita
2021-02-17T01:04:39 < jadew> fairly steady, but no recent data
2021-02-17T01:05:14 < mawk> no idea jadew 
2021-02-17T01:05:16 < mawk> I just wanted to open it lol
2021-02-17T01:05:22 < mawk> but now I have to open 4 positions per year to keep it open
2021-02-17T01:05:29 < englishman> idk about 100 years but fossil fuels aren't going anywhere the next 50
2021-02-17T01:05:32 < mawk> englishman: the latter
2021-02-17T01:05:39 < mawk> for fossil fuels, unsure
2021-02-17T01:05:49 < mawk> oil peak is for the next few years
2021-02-17T01:05:53 < englishman> passenger vehicles might be replaced, maybe even trucks but not ships
2021-02-17T01:06:06 < mawk> oil need isn't the problem
2021-02-17T01:06:08 < mawk> oil production is
2021-02-17T01:06:58 < qyx> ships will consume CO2 and warm ocean water
2021-02-17T01:08:08 < jadew> https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Energy_statistics_-_an_overview
2021-02-17T01:08:14 < R2COM> modern life runs on oil right now
2021-02-17T01:08:38 < R2COM> portable small lightweight nuclear batteries not developed yet to power A330
2021-02-17T01:08:54 < R2COM> neither we have a tech to generate energy and convert it to any matter with programmed properties
2021-02-17T01:08:56 < jadew> looks like it has dropped about 15% from 2006 to 2013, but it's steady since
2021-02-17T01:09:03 < R2COM> if above two happens then yea -> oil dead
2021-02-17T01:09:07 < R2COM> not seeing it happening
2021-02-17T01:09:50 < jadew> an energy ETF would be interesting
2021-02-17T01:10:13 < jadew> you could bet on both green and non-green
2021-02-17T01:10:31 < jadew> with green you have an opportunity for it to bubble
2021-02-17T01:10:55 < jadew> but if you have both, you're at least minimizing the risk that any of them would go down
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2021-02-17T01:12:47 < jadew> it already bubbled
2021-02-17T01:13:29 < R2COM> yes, put good half of do$h in "green" stuff
2021-02-17T01:13:36 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-17T01:13:44 < jadew> not a good idea anymore
2021-02-17T01:13:53 < jadew> the shape of the chart is the same with that of tesla
2021-02-17T01:14:07 < R2COM> tesla, amazon = gambling
2021-02-17T01:14:11 < R2COM> might as well go to casino then
2021-02-17T01:14:15 < jadew> I agree, yeah
2021-02-17T01:14:31 < R2COM> jeez all i had to do is put all my money to gamestop a while ago and sell
2021-02-17T01:14:34 < R2COM> and then done
2021-02-17T01:14:38 < R2COM> who would knew...
2021-02-17T01:14:45 < jadew> heh
2021-02-17T01:14:49 < R2COM> there was a way to know actually..
2021-02-17T01:14:50 < jadew> then retirement
2021-02-17T01:14:56 < R2COM> its just im not 100% of my time on this shit
2021-02-17T01:15:28 < jadew> I was advised to buy tesla by the banker managing my account, back when it was dirt cheap
2021-02-17T01:15:45 -!- Ad0 [~Ad0@93.124.245.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-02-17T01:15:48 < jadew> I was also advised to buy ethereum when it was cheap
2021-02-17T01:15:59 < jadew> thing is, I still would buy them if the situation repeated now
2021-02-17T01:16:18 < jadew> because I would still consider them to be gambles
2021-02-17T01:16:38 < jadew> a good time to buy something is probably when you notice it's getting hyped up a lot
2021-02-17T01:16:51 < jadew> then sell when everyone joins in
2021-02-17T01:16:53 < mawk> to long it maybe
2021-02-17T01:16:59 < mawk> not really to buy to hold
2021-02-17T01:17:04 < mawk> hype deflates
2021-02-17T01:17:04 < jadew> yeah
2021-02-17T01:17:27 < jadew> I'm just thinking about what a good strategy would be for maximum profits
2021-02-17T01:17:58 < jadew> if you're investing for 10-20 years, you ignore the hype
2021-02-17T01:18:08 < jadew> you go for undervalued, stable and good dividends
2021-02-17T01:18:43 < R2COM> invest in romanian companies, support your gypsy motherland
2021-02-17T01:19:16 < jadew> R2COM, I would, but it's difficult to get an account on the romanian market
2021-02-17T01:19:41 < jadew> and the commissions are high
2021-02-17T01:20:55 < jadew> mawk, your session ID is showing in that screenshot
2021-02-17T01:22:30 < jadew>  /troll
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2021-02-17T01:27:45 < Laurenceb> <R2COM> portable small lightweight nuclear batteries not developed yet to power A330
2021-02-17T01:27:52 < Laurenceb> thats where stratosolar comes in
2021-02-17T01:28:00 < Laurenceb> but first... hyperloop
2021-02-17T01:28:13 < qyx> is it powered by betavoltaics
2021-02-17T01:29:26 < qyx> few years ago I hoped AA-sized nuclear cells for low power applications are common by now
2021-02-17T01:29:37 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-17T01:29:52  * Laurenceb has to balance the wheeellzz
2021-02-17T01:30:04 < Laurenceb> I got promoted from cleaning the toilets
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2021-02-17T01:32:51 < Laurenceb> trying to do it with a single crappy accel cuz nobody wants to make a custom test rig
2021-02-17T01:33:18 < Laurenceb> its gunna have to be a methlab enhanced trial and error thing based on vibration amplitude
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2021-02-17T01:41:04 < fenugrec> englishman, ever seen this ? https://www.sparkmicro.com/products/ fabless company in mtl
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2021-02-17T02:12:08 < englishman> yes heard about it today actually
2021-02-17T02:12:23 < englishman> not sure if they will go anywhere, UWB is already a very large market
2021-02-17T02:12:24 < qyx> TME didn't only put 3 silicagel bags to the package
2021-02-17T02:12:33 < qyx> they even put 4 humidity indicator card inside
2021-02-17T02:12:43 < englishman> but, very cool aspirations
2021-02-17T02:13:47 < englishman> lol
2021-02-17T02:16:45 < englishman> fenugrec: n'aurait pas dû être étalonné
2021-02-17T02:16:53 < englishman> i wrote my most complicated sentence today
2021-02-17T02:23:47 < fenugrec> englishman, what are you étalonning
2021-02-17T02:24:28 < englishman> in this case, a photodiode current measurement device
2021-02-17T02:24:38 < fenugrec> such analog
2021-02-17T02:24:42 < englishman> much
2021-02-17T02:25:04 < fenugrec> pis ca marche ?
2021-02-17T02:25:24 < englishman> this one was a fault of the labview programmer: calibration when it should have been let be, and using the DUT tolerances to calibrate against
2021-02-17T02:25:28 < englishman> epic fail
2021-02-17T02:27:19 < englishman> no i was just proud to have written a conditionnel passé negatif.
2021-02-17T02:27:54 < fenugrec> labview... where you need to remember wtf an orange dashed line going into a an orange box with 5 black squares and a line means
2021-02-17T02:27:58 < englishman> next will be a conditionnel passé negatif interrogatif
2021-02-17T02:28:31 < fenugrec> n'auriez-vous pas pu l'étalonner
2021-02-17T02:28:49 < englishman> no way i could have written that
2021-02-17T02:28:57 < fenugrec> hahaha
2021-02-17T02:32:08  * karlp thanks 3d models for checking footprints against
2021-02-17T02:32:12 < karlp> what a world we live in
2021-02-17T02:32:41 < qyx> haha thats the reason I am finding/doing models for all new parts
2021-02-17T02:32:57 < qyx> it saves many surprises
2021-02-17T02:33:30 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-17T02:33:57 < qyx> in the past most of my bugs was in footprints
2021-02-17T02:34:00 < zyp> quality of 3d models vary, but it's still unlikely you'll have the same error in both
2021-02-17T02:34:22 < qyx> now I don't have any, at least I can't remember any recent one
2021-02-17T02:34:58 < qyx> I am much more worried about bugs arising from assuming things
2021-02-17T02:35:26 < qyx> like, oh lptim! great, it does have input! if I connect 1PPS to it, I can sample it exactly using input compare
2021-02-17T02:35:36 < qyx> no shit, there is no input compare in lptim
2021-02-17T02:35:53 < zyp> haha
2021-02-17T02:36:01 < qyx> that fucking input is for encoder only
2021-02-17T02:38:49 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Y1JBN.png the microsim footprint shootout
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2021-02-17T02:46:45 < karlp> bit disappointing how cheap the TE one is, it's the worst footprint of them all.
2021-02-17T02:47:09 < zyp> white is keepout?
2021-02-17T02:47:46 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-17T02:48:13 < zyp> if I'm doing a board to have a trace target, what'd be fun to put on it?
2021-02-17T02:49:17 < zyp> on one hand, L5 could be interesting, on the other hand it'd probably have too many distracting rabbit holes
2021-02-17T02:50:31 < karlp> yeah, white is keepout
2021-02-17T02:51:03 < karlp> what are you building  a trace target for?
2021-02-17T02:52:00 < zyp> I wanna do ETM traces of the async stuff so I can generate a timeline visualization
2021-02-17T03:14:42 < Laurenceb> L5
2021-02-17T03:14:54 < Laurenceb> even moar stm32s
2021-02-17T03:18:13 < mawk> I have something cool
2021-02-17T03:18:17 < mawk> self encrypting hard drive
2021-02-17T03:18:17 < Laurenceb> 17nA thats pretty low power
2021-02-17T03:18:32  * Laurenceb calls the FBI
2021-02-17T03:18:36 < mawk> lol
2021-02-17T03:18:55 < mawk> when the drive is locked it presents a read-only 2GiB region
2021-02-17T03:19:07 < mawk> on it there is a linux image with a special program that asks password to unlock the drive
2021-02-17T03:19:12 < mawk> and when the drive is unlocked, real data shows up
2021-02-17T03:19:32 < mawk> since the region is read-only it greatly reduces evil-maid type of attacks
2021-02-17T03:19:42 < mawk> it's OPAL encryption standard
2021-02-17T03:20:40 < mawk> https://github.com/Drive-Trust-Alliance/sedutil
2021-02-17T03:20:46 < mawk> almost all modern drives support it
2021-02-17T03:20:49 < mawk> try it now
2021-02-17T03:20:53 < mawk> and earn my infinite respect
2021-02-17T03:21:00 < mawk> I did it on my ssd already
2021-02-17T03:21:57 < Laurenceb> cool
2021-02-17T03:22:00 < Laurenceb> > the device doesn’t just segregate applications between a Trusted and Untrusted side, but can also allocate pins or memory for a much greater flexibility
2021-02-17T03:22:07 < Laurenceb> heh physical trustzone
2021-02-17T03:23:24 < Laurenceb> >386 nA (RAM and RTC enabled) for a wake-up time of single 14 µs
2021-02-17T03:23:30 < Laurenceb> ok thats impressive
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2021-02-17T03:30:41 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone knows how are you supposed to send media keyboards as keystrokes?
2021-02-17T03:31:02 < ColdKeyboard> I'm trying to find Play/Pause or mute for example, but I found tons of different codes and none of them seem to work
2021-02-17T03:31:23 < ColdKeyboard> (0xE8, 0xB3 etc... none of them work)
2021-02-17T03:33:03 < mawk> it's in the usb hid spec
2021-02-17T03:33:05 < mawk> iirc
2021-02-17T03:33:43 < mawk> http://www.rennes.supelec.fr/ren/fi/elec/docs/usb/hid1_11.pdf
2021-02-17T03:35:56 < englishman> 17nA lol what is that, reset held high on the 8 pin model
2021-02-17T03:37:05 < mawk> ah I found ColdKeyboard : https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/hut1_21_0.pdf
2021-02-17T03:37:24 < mawk> you don't believe in mighty ST englishman ?
2021-02-17T03:39:11 < qyx> whats the bestest and smallest obtainable thing I can use to build a traffic lights for the kid
2021-02-17T03:39:36 < qyx> some G0 on a breakout board or what
2021-02-17T03:39:53 < qyx> (no esp32)
2021-02-17T03:40:49 < qyx> lets search TME
2021-02-17T03:41:09 < qyx> oh he likes to play with a TV remote, I could add a receiver to switch colours
2021-02-17T03:42:25 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks guys!
2021-02-17T03:42:42 < ColdKeyboard> I'm sending 0xCD but it's not acting as play/pause :)
2021-02-17T03:47:52 < ColdKeyboard> Nevermind, I was sending it as a regular key. That's why
2021-02-17T03:47:59 < ColdKeyboard> Thanks for sending these docs
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2021-02-17T05:37:41 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone used CircuitPython attrocity?
2021-02-17T05:38:09 < ColdKeyboard> I'm playing around with Raspberry Pi Micro and while the MCU is wesome... the stack is horrible
2021-02-17T05:38:21 < ColdKeyboard> Can't even do interrupt... like, whyyy?
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2021-02-17T09:12:45 < R2COM> https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-pro/rack
2021-02-17T09:12:54 < R2COM> $50,347.98
2021-02-17T09:12:58 < R2COM> with all options to max
2021-02-17T09:12:59 < R2COM> ;-)
2021-02-17T09:13:10 < R2COM> :P
2021-02-17T09:13:16 < R2COM> :o
2021-02-17T09:15:25 < Amun_Ra> including stands? ;)
2021-02-17T09:16:34 < R2COM> i guess
2021-02-17T09:16:39 < R2COM> i'd buy it
2021-02-17T09:16:51 < R2COM> if i were rich enough
2021-02-17T09:16:58 < R2COM> but "sane" settings from that page
2021-02-17T09:17:01 < R2COM> 3.5GHz 8 core
2021-02-17T09:17:05 < R2COM> $7k
2021-02-17T09:17:14 < R2COM> realistic but... still kinda... high
2021-02-17T09:17:25 < R2COM> "sane" = minimal lol
2021-02-17T09:17:33 < R2COM> it starts with $6.5k
2021-02-17T09:17:38 < R2COM> 1TB SSD etc
2021-02-17T09:17:42 < R2COM> basically its $7k
2021-02-17T09:18:22 < R2COM> $50k FreeBSD machine :P
2021-02-17T09:18:56 < R2COM> just think about buying it, just to destroy dongs :)
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2021-02-17T09:23:26 < R2COM> ok...$10k... 
2021-02-17T09:23:30 < R2COM> *sane* setup
2021-02-17T09:23:32 < R2COM> with that machine
2021-02-17T09:23:42 < R2COM> yep
2021-02-17T09:23:45 < R2COM> still a lot
2021-02-17T09:27:42 < R2COM> https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac-pro/3.0ghz-1tb
2021-02-17T09:27:47 < R2COM> $5.5k for that
2021-02-17T09:44:27 < Amun_Ra> R2COM: I guess Pro Stand ($999.00) is extra https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWUG2LL/A/pro-stand
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2021-02-17T09:46:24 < R2COM> oh shit lol
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2021-02-17T09:47:56 < R2COM> this is worse than being robbed on the street jebus
2021-02-17T09:49:45 < Amun_Ra> ;)
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2021-02-17T10:29:24 < BrainDamage> mawk: i already tried OPAL a while ago and it's messy, the boot partition only boots through mbr, not efi, this in turn is a mess if the unlocked portion uses efi because the efi needs to be able to handle dual boot mode
2021-02-17T10:30:40 < BrainDamage> on top of this the standard is overly complex instead of a single secure and insecure area, you have multiple arbitrary secure sections and each one with its own key
2021-02-17T10:31:19 < BrainDamage> and several manifacturers fucked up the implementation ofc
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2021-02-17T13:42:44 < jadew> man... paypal is fucking awful
2021-02-17T13:43:05 < jadew> they refuse to link a transferwise account, even tho that was possible in the past
2021-02-17T13:43:20 < karlp> gotta make those walled gardens.
2021-02-17T13:43:21 < jadew> and I can't even contact them
2021-02-17T13:43:30 < karlp> or walled.... places. at least, not always gardens really
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2021-02-17T13:46:29 < mawk> BrainDamage: in my case it works with UEFI
2021-02-17T13:46:53 < mawk> they just call the partition "mbr" in their commands, but you can put a UEFI partition in it
2021-02-17T13:47:00 < mawk> it doesn't really look at what's inside
2021-02-17T13:48:22 < mawk> qyx: get a real traffic light
2021-02-17T13:48:26 < mawk> and put philips hue bulbs inside
2021-02-17T13:48:37 < mawk> that's what they did at my company to micro-manage/harrass us
2021-02-17T13:48:52 < mawk> if we are behind schedule it displays a red light
2021-02-17T13:49:13 < mawk> but I don't really look at it anymore since it's always red
2021-02-17T13:49:24 < zyp> haha, wat
2021-02-17T13:50:08 < mawk> yeah they found an actual traffic light I don't know where
2021-02-17T13:50:20 < karlp> wat
2021-02-17T13:50:30 < karlp> I didn't think companies like that really existed....
2021-02-17T13:50:46 < mawk> lol
2021-02-17T13:50:51 < mawk> well it probably stemmed from a good intention
2021-02-17T13:51:02 < mawk> motivate the devs to have green light or something
2021-02-17T13:51:07 < mawk> but that's a bit naive way of thinking
2021-02-17T13:53:50 < zyp> today I was told «we've got a customer that needs a couple of stm32 bootloaders and you are our stm32 guy now»
2021-02-17T13:56:04 < Steffanx> Mawk for some reason I thought this was cool: http://imgur.com/a/cm1F94S
2021-02-17T13:56:33 < mawk> so you're happy zyp ?
2021-02-17T13:56:47 < zyp> well, yeah, sounds interesting enough
2021-02-17T13:57:09 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-02-17T13:57:23 < Steffanx> Apparently the Philips livingcolors bulb fits in some Philips IR thingy from the 50ties
2021-02-17T13:57:29 < zyp> apparently the guy responsible for this on the customer's side is yet another of my former coworkers
2021-02-17T13:58:34 < mawk> like a real retro hipster Steffanx 
2021-02-17T13:58:44 < zyp> but it makes sense that when the largest embedded workplace in the area shuts down, people end up working for anything else that's embedded related
2021-02-17T13:59:09 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-02-17T13:59:20 < karlp> come work in iceland.
2021-02-17T13:59:35 < karlp> you meet the same people even if it' sjust as broad as "works with comptuers"
2021-02-17T13:59:55 < Steffanx> Lol karlp
2021-02-17T14:00:58 < zyp> haha, fair
2021-02-17T14:01:08 < zyp> how many were you again? 300k?
2021-02-17T14:03:18 < PaulFertser> mawk: I've read an article where a guy from Belarus just found some nice people from their road/traffic militsia and they gave him a 15-year old device from the streets.
2021-02-17T14:07:02 < karlp> yeahm, 330k or something.
2021-02-17T14:07:21 < PaulFertser> https://habrastorage.org/storage2/c4a/91d/f8f/c4a91df8f55ef41d3e5b08faf3139bfc.jpg
2021-02-17T14:08:20 < zyp> comparable to my county then
2021-02-17T14:10:22 < karlp> with less fluid border of course.
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2021-02-17T14:14:22 < zyp> yeah, but still with most of the population concentrated within a radius of half an hour from where I am
2021-02-17T14:16:32 < karlp> sure, but that's the same for our capital area.
2021-02-17T14:16:56 < karlp> I mean, better than the faroes of course ;)
2021-02-17T14:28:00 < jpa-> which has more fluid border, zyps county or iceland? :)
2021-02-17T14:30:16 < BrainDamage> noway, thousands of km of coast :p
2021-02-17T14:36:03 < fenugrec> don't everybody jump on it at the same time ( I assume it's a small VPS), but someone has a demo inventree server online : inventree.polarize.xyz
2021-02-17T14:37:25 < zyp> what's inventree?
2021-02-17T14:38:01 < zyp> ah
2021-02-17T14:38:13 < fenugrec> inventory thing, like partkeepr but not rotten
2021-02-17T14:38:45 < fenugrec> user: visitor, pass: showmethedemo
2021-02-17T14:40:44 < zyp> I got a pal to start building an inventory system a few months ago, but that's a more generic thing, kinda more like sortly
2021-02-17T14:42:47 < qyx> mawk: we had a real one from a railroad
2021-02-17T14:42:59 < qyx> in $work[-1]
2021-02-17T14:53:51 < mawk> nice
2021-02-17T14:54:12 < mawk> ah nice PaulFertser it's even put in the proper orientation
2021-02-17T14:54:16 < mawk> contrary to the one we have
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2021-02-17T14:58:56 < PaulFertser> mawk: you have the red at the bottom, /in your face/?
2021-02-17T14:59:23 < mawk> lol no it's at the top, but the whole light is upside down
2021-02-17T14:59:54 < mawk> because the light cable would prevent to put it the other way, since it's just sitting on a table and not fixed to the wall like your
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2021-02-17T16:09:26  * Laurenceb just found indiachan
2021-02-17T16:09:31 < Laurenceb> this is hilarious
2021-02-17T16:09:54 < Steffanx> This is not ##chan32, Laurenceb 
2021-02-17T16:09:54 < Laurenceb> >entire site is just caste warz and discussion about how to rape and get away with it
2021-02-17T16:10:16 < zyp> sounds like you'd fit right in
2021-02-17T16:10:17 < Laurenceb> >most popular insult in muslimcel
2021-02-17T16:10:21 < Laurenceb> *is
2021-02-17T16:10:52 < Steffanx> Dont you have a zoom meeting Laurenceb 
2021-02-17T16:11:01 < Laurenceb> probably O_o
2021-02-17T16:11:12 < Laurenceb> I need to relax between zooms
2021-02-17T16:11:57 < Laurenceb> this looks like poo-fect reading material
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2021-02-17T16:54:26 < mawk> Laurenceb: https://indiachan.com/b/res/240515.html
2021-02-17T16:54:34 < karlp> no, stop. 
2021-02-17T16:58:04 < Laurenceb> kekkk
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2021-02-17T17:33:47 < Steffanx> Fuck off mawk.... there a limits you know
2021-02-17T17:37:27 < zyp> I don't think I'm gonna open that at work
2021-02-17T17:40:55 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2021-02-17T17:49:35 < Steffanx> Not even from home... zyp
2021-02-17T17:51:58 < t4nk_freenode> ;) I never click links anyhow
2021-02-17T17:55:29 < Laurenceb> now we know why mawk has the encripted hard drive
2021-02-17T17:58:05  * Laurenceb calls Mr Hanson
2021-02-17T18:04:26 < BrainDamage> https://nitter.snopyta.org/nathanneilburns/status/1362019283644145665
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2021-02-17T18:21:50 < mawk> lol
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2021-02-17T18:27:46 < mawk> https://youtu.be/qU5Toz-aLZM
2021-02-17T18:27:54 < mawk> requiem for walter severini
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2021-02-17T18:50:10  * karlp smells gabber
2021-02-17T18:54:41 < mawk> yes
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2021-02-17T19:08:05 < Steffanx> Mawk, there are limits.. again :P
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2021-02-17T19:54:59 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/page-2#post-5168486
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2021-02-17T20:40:56 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2021-02-17T20:41:43 < Steffanx> lol
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2021-02-17T22:37:34 < vegii> woah, switches https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001639712812.html
2021-02-17T22:39:52 < fenugrec> will that be the death of F103 cheapbords
2021-02-17T22:41:14 < vegii> I'm considering this one as the f103 killer https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002134308232.html
2021-02-17T22:46:15 < vegii> any known issues with these boards?
2021-02-17T22:46:45 < vegii> like all f103 boards have some fuckup like the usb resistor value
2021-02-17T22:57:35 < t4nk_freenode> it's not really devastating the c8t6... I wouldn't really fancy it at 3.34euro ex shipping
2021-02-17T22:58:10 < t4nk_freenode> (I did notice and contemplated f411 before though..)
2021-02-17T22:58:18 < t4nk_freenode> -d
2021-02-17T23:00:06 < vegii> why 41?
2021-02-17T23:00:11 < vegii> *411
2021-02-17T23:00:22 < vegii> isn't 401 significantly cheaper?
2021-02-17T23:01:01 < t4nk_freenode> mmm that one still is 2.70 on your site
2021-02-17T23:01:15 < t4nk_freenode> but I guess 411 for the slightly better specs
2021-02-17T23:01:23 < t4nk_freenode> more ram
2021-02-17T23:08:59 < t4nk_freenode> but it's too bad that most of the boards are fake over there :|
2021-02-17T23:09:28 < karlp> [citation needed]
2021-02-17T23:10:04 < t4nk_freenode> I just received an stlink/v2, the jtag version, yesterday from AE...
2021-02-17T23:10:24 < Steffanx> The F411s i got a while are fine. Using it right now.
2021-02-17T23:10:44 < t4nk_freenode> they sent one from a faulty series where the target voltage isn't working
2021-02-17T23:11:19 < t4nk_freenode> so it's cumbersome to use, if not unusable at all stand alone
2021-02-17T23:11:51 < t4nk_freenode> opened a dispute today.. to my surprise I was instantly awarded a refund
2021-02-17T23:12:56 < karlp> "target voltage isn't working" meaning what?
2021-02-17T23:13:23 < t4nk_freenode> then as another citation.. I bought some 100%GENUINEREALWORKY blue pills.. turned out to be CKS103 chips, so also fake boards
2021-02-17T23:14:25 < t4nk_freenode> it means that pins 1 and 2 on the stm32 header of the stlink aren't working. They should normally provide power to the target
2021-02-17T23:14:31 < karlp> ah.
2021-02-17T23:14:35 < karlp> no. they really realylshoujldn't
2021-02-17T23:14:48 < karlp> some shitty ripoff boards do that
2021-02-17T23:14:56 < karlp> and jlinks have that as an option, controllable, on a different pin
2021-02-17T23:15:06 < karlp> v target is for the debugger to _detect_ and _mnatch_ the target voltages.
2021-02-17T23:15:24 < karlp> if you want one that's liable to fry things you might connect, sure, find one that provides power on vtarget.
2021-02-17T23:15:29 < karlp> but it's absolutely not how a real stlink works.
2021-02-17T23:15:37 < t4nk_freenode> it saddens me though.. most of the time the fake products are just a few cents cheaper than the real chips.... why on earth try to hustle people :|
2021-02-17T23:16:14 < karlp> they might appear only cents cheaper to you, doesn't meant he margin at their end is only a tiny bit cheaper.
2021-02-17T23:16:31 < karlp> also, deciding that a specific part with known clones is "msot boards are fake" is a fucking stretch
2021-02-17T23:17:47 < t4nk_freenode> well, I spent a decent amount reading reviews on AE from others
2021-02-17T23:18:48 < t4nk_freenode> I guess they just sell real chips and clones at random
2021-02-17T23:19:39 < t4nk_freenode> I'd like to buy a few cheap blue pills that have 128k of flash instead of 64 though, would be nice
2021-02-17T23:19:52 < karlp> gtfo wanker
2021-02-17T23:20:06 < t4nk_freenode> ?
2021-02-17T23:20:07 < karlp> "want to get unspecced parts => complains abotu getting unspecced parts"
2021-02-17T23:20:14 < karlp> just stfu with themoaning 
2021-02-17T23:20:43 < t4nk_freenode> wow, who's moaning here I ask :)
2021-02-17T23:21:24 < t4nk_freenode> and go wash your mouth.
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2021-02-17T23:49:21 < qyx> wat legit programmer never powers the target
2021-02-17T23:50:09 < qyx> karlp is right here, buy a nucleo or whatever from a reputable distributor
2021-02-17T23:50:36 < qyx> not a china maybe64-maybe128 chips
2021-02-17T23:53:26 < PaulFertser> JLink can provide "kickstart" 5 V power on pin 19 iirc.
2021-02-17T23:56:06 < Steffanx> Anyway, AFAIK there are no f401 or f411 closes anyway
2021-02-17T23:57:03 < qyx> whats a 411 close?
2021-02-17T23:57:12 < t4nk_freenode> hehe I think he meant clone ;)
2021-02-17T23:57:52 < qyx> oh
2021-02-17T23:58:03 < qyx> yeah becvause they are not 10y old like f103
--- Day changed Thu Feb 18 2021
2021-02-18T00:02:49 < Steffanx> Clones. Indeed
2021-02-18T00:05:45 < t4nk_freenode> I really like the 103's though.. spent/wasted too much time coding pics in asm
2021-02-18T00:06:07 < t4nk_freenode> specing got me on to stm32, of course :)
2021-02-18T00:06:27 < t4nk_freenode> haven't seen specing in a _decent_ while btw... I'm a bit worried.
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2021-02-18T00:08:43 < qyx> it is a bit weird to like f103
2021-02-18T00:08:53 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-02-18T00:09:26 < t4nk_freenode> I also got f407vet6!
2021-02-18T00:09:39 < t4nk_freenode> I like that one too
2021-02-18T00:16:52 < Steffanx> I like stroopwaffles
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2021-02-18T00:48:20 < jbo> me too
2021-02-18T00:49:04 < Steffanx> Awesome mr jbo 
2021-02-18T00:49:33 < mawk> jbo is jpa- impersonator
2021-02-18T00:49:38 < mawk> same color in weechat
2021-02-18T00:49:50 < jbo> oh no, they are onto us, jpa- !
2021-02-18T00:52:54 < Steffanx> nah, mr jbo  needs the dash.
2021-02-18T00:53:00 < Steffanx> and a .fi
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2021-02-18T01:50:32 < jbo> and a wife
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2021-02-18T02:03:06 < kakium69> what has been happening here
2021-02-18T02:03:29 < jbo> devastation
2021-02-18T02:03:55 < Steffanx> We have been crying kakium69 
2021-02-18T02:04:07 < kakium69> has bananas been shared among users?
2021-02-18T02:04:10 < Steffanx> We thought we lost you
2021-02-18T02:17:34 < zyp> ended up spending the evening designing a trace target board: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MtoHs.png
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2021-02-18T02:41:21 < fenugrec> what is that, 0.15mm traces ? looks thiiin
2021-02-18T02:42:18 < zyp> 0.127
2021-02-18T02:43:21 < zyp> I'll go over and fatten them up later
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2021-02-18T02:43:58 < zyp> I like getting stuff routed before I worry about stuff like that
2021-02-18T02:50:26 < fenugrec> fair enough, heh. 4L ? I must say those pinheaders not lining up with the grid is more annoying than I'd like to admit
2021-02-18T02:51:24 < fenugrec> probably 2.5mm grid etc, I know
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2021-02-18T02:56:37 < zyp> ah, I'm switching between mil and mm grids while I work :)
2021-02-18T02:57:27 < zyp> this better? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qeez8.png
2021-02-18T02:57:43 < zyp> and yeah, 4L
2021-02-18T02:58:27 < fenugrec> aaaaah. hehe
2021-02-18T02:59:35 < zyp> 4L is so cheap at jlcpcb now that 4L is very easy to justify
2021-02-18T03:00:24 < zyp> and considering parallel trace clocks at up to sysclk/2 or something, it'll benefit from a solid ground plane :)
2021-02-18T03:01:37 < jbo> nothing beats a solid ground plane.
2021-02-18T03:01:45 < zyp> on previous designs I've done, having RMII has been the justification for 4L, and this is faster than RMII
2021-02-18T03:02:04 < jbo> the RMII you did for me worked great :)
2021-02-18T03:02:18 < zyp> oh, hi tectu
2021-02-18T03:02:33 < jbo> hey o/
2021-02-18T03:02:50 < zyp> what's up with the new nick?
2021-02-18T03:03:43 < jbo> started setting up a znc bouncer and didn´t get the config right just yet
2021-02-18T03:10:16 < zyp> I'd ask you how you are and everything, but I'm already a couple of hours past bedtime, so we'll have to catch up tomorrow or something instead :)
2021-02-18T03:11:00 < jbo> sounds good :)
2021-02-18T03:11:04 < jbo> take care & sleep well o/
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2021-02-18T04:50:34 < kakium69> how to disable mute button on firefox tabs?
2021-02-18T04:51:15 < kakium69> annoying misclicks mute my shiet
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2021-02-18T06:17:16 < R2COM> sup yo
2021-02-18T06:17:31 < R2COM> what a difficult times
2021-02-18T06:17:40 < R2COM> dongs do you like beef ramen
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2021-02-18T06:51:05 < R2COM> music time 
2021-02-18T06:51:08 < R2COM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCzfrXwGIzg&list=PL3f4TKRp1xTUBCtMCbsFqVeS0fNjwdIA_&index=23
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2021-02-18T09:34:14 < jpa-> does anyone have a favourite push-button power switch ic? like push on, push off, including internal debounce & high-side fet
2021-02-18T09:35:58 < jpa-> they all seem annoyingly expensive and niche
2021-02-18T09:39:35 < R2COM> MAX16054
2021-02-18T09:40:07 < R2COM> for that price you might just buy another f0 :P
2021-02-18T09:41:35 < jpa-> yeah - and that is already cheaper than what i've found before
2021-02-18T09:41:57 < jpa-> meh.. maybe the power plug will work as a switch ;)
2021-02-18T09:43:50 < jpa-> distributors appear to have trouble deciding what to call these - digikey just calls it "interface - specialized"
2021-02-18T09:54:25 < zyp> jpa-, greenpak?
2021-02-18T09:55:10 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, perhaps - i guess this is the point where i should start adding requirements i didn't mention before, like 7V to 24V input voltage range
2021-02-18T09:55:34 < zyp> so greenpak? :)
2021-02-18T09:56:12 < jpa-> i think even high voltage greenpak is only up to 13V
2021-02-18T09:56:41 < jpa-> might also hack together something with MCU itself and some mosfets etc, but that gets annoyingly fiddly
2021-02-18T09:57:15 < zyp> can't you just use the enable pin on the vreg?
2021-02-18T09:57:48 < zyp> small ldo to feed a mcu or greenpak and whatever and then turn off main reg
2021-02-18T09:58:20 < jpa-> yeah
2021-02-18T09:58:29 < zyp> hrm
2021-02-18T09:58:56 < jpa-> it is just annoying how complex this becomes - just because i would like to use a pushbutton like the other pushbuttons i use for keypad already :)
2021-02-18T09:59:00 < zyp> kid's been having cold symptoms and stayed home from kindergarden for a few days, today kid is good enough to go to kindergarden again, but now I'm having symptoms
2021-02-18T09:59:32 < zyp> haha
2021-02-18T09:59:50 < jpa-> our strategy in such situations has been for the adult to go to corona test :)
2021-02-18T10:01:12 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-18T10:02:00 < zyp> I'm staying home from the office today, but I've got an online meeting in half an hour, so I figure I'll go take a test after that
2021-02-18T10:02:44 < R2COM> fucking biological weapons...so much inconvenience cuz of that stuff
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2021-02-18T10:34:25 < mawk> oh no
2021-02-18T10:34:27 < mawk> RIP zyp 
2021-02-18T10:56:28 < jadew> man... paypal goes out of their way to inconvenience you if you're trying to use transferwise
2021-02-18T10:59:48 < jadew> they're complaining that the bank is virtual, like they're fucking different
2021-02-18T11:01:37 < jadew> they still make up for more than half of the market tho
2021-02-18T11:02:32 < jadew> and even tho I have Stripe on my checkout page (which has the second biggest share of the market), people have never used it
2021-02-18T11:02:57 < jadew> man... PayPal is infuriating
2021-02-18T11:03:06 < jadew> I can't fucking call them, they don't have that option anymore
2021-02-18T11:03:14 < jadew> instead I get to "instant message" them
2021-02-18T11:03:21 < jadew> and they answer every couple of hours...
2021-02-18T11:03:25 < jadew> like WTF is this?
2021-02-18T11:04:01 < jadew> they expect to charge me hundreds of USD on conversion fees alone, but they can't pick up the fucking phone when I want to talk to them?
2021-02-18T11:11:06 < Steffanx> Take it easy... 
2021-02-18T11:11:12 < Steffanx> Relaaaax
2021-02-18T11:12:17 < jadew> I'm just annoyed, because it seems to be a recurring theme
2021-02-18T11:13:05 < jadew> it's like the facebook ads thing, where they blocked my ads account by saying I had a ToS violation, but they don't mention what I violated and there's no way of contacting them
2021-02-18T11:14:34 < jadew> these companies should crash and burn
2021-02-18T11:15:53 < PaulFertser> Intel _premier_ support answer example: "SP binary usually released in Github https://github.com/intel/FSP, unfortunately to inform that there is no Purley FSP binary released in github for download."
2021-02-18T11:15:56 < Steffanx> Somehow I always get the idea you attract these kinds of issues 
2021-02-18T11:17:26 < PaulFertser> That's three-at-a-time combo: 1. Broken English; 2. Misinformation (Purley FSP binary is present there under the Skylake name); 3. Lack of understanding of our real question (we need FSP 2.0 while they published only 1.x on Github for Skylake). FFS!
2021-02-18T11:18:45 < jadew> Steffanx, for the FB one, the fucking AI got confused - it thought I was trying to mislead the user with gibberish, because I had dBm and stuff like that in the ad, then a human reinstated the ad, after which the AI decided that I tried to circumvent it and that's what triggered the account blockage - as far as I could figure out.
2021-02-18T11:19:08 < jadew> in this case, PayPal is forcing me to use a local bank account, and refuses to send money in any other currency than the local one
2021-02-18T11:19:39 < Steffanx> Reminds me about my nxp experience PaulFertser .
2021-02-18T11:19:40 < jadew> which means they get to charge me their stupid conversion fee for every withdrawal
2021-02-18T11:19:42 < Steffanx> Fun fun
2021-02-18T11:20:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: facebook, paypal, google (play) etc are all really evil like that, jadew's experience is not an outlier.
2021-02-18T11:21:21 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: my experience with Freescale FAE was very nice, they spotted an error in my OpenOCD script even though they do not provide any support for it officially. 
2021-02-18T11:21:37 < PaulFertser> But this Intel bullshit is just infuriating.
2021-02-18T11:24:15 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: plenty of android app developers banned for fuck knows what, it's often impossible to find out what rule is violated, and sometimes there clearly is nothing wrong with the app. And at the same time some high-profile apps are allowed to violate the same rules...
2021-02-18T11:43:36 < BrainDamage> well, they are outliers, but the outliers are fairly consistent
2021-02-18T11:44:08 < BrainDamage> it's just that automated detection of evil-ness sucks, even the state of the art
2021-02-18T11:44:39 < PaulFertser> It's just that there's no mechanism to be able to properly and fairly handle cases like that.
2021-02-18T11:45:02 < BrainDamage> but those company business is allowed to exist in the face of those
2021-02-18T11:46:15 < BrainDamage> and because they are too big, we've entered the "late stage capitalism" phase, where the state is afraid or even blackmailed to interphere with them
2021-02-18T11:46:47 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, that's what it feels like
2021-02-18T11:46:56 < BrainDamage> there's no mechanism because they cannot handle it in an automated way
2021-02-18T11:47:16 < PaulFertser> But they must handle cases like that manually in a sane and fair way.
2021-02-18T11:47:19 < BrainDamage> the sheer volume of submissions would clog it
2021-02-18T11:47:50 < BrainDamage> I agree, but they know they cannot handle all of them, so they don't even try
2021-02-18T11:48:15 < BrainDamage> a normal business wouldn't be allowed to exist
2021-02-18T11:48:18 < jadew> yeah, they probably know the failure rate and decided it's cheaper to ignore those customers than to solve their issues
2021-02-18T11:48:40 -!- oofus_ is now known as oofus
2021-02-18T11:48:53 < jadew> I don't even think it's legal to have a business without having a public phone number for the customers
2021-02-18T11:49:56 < BrainDamage> it's almost textbook definition of late stage capitalism, the companies are influencing the state instead of viceversa
2021-02-18T11:51:09 < BrainDamage> youtube censoring videos for dmca violation is identical
2021-02-18T11:54:11 < BrainDamage> oh, and the solution is not a more ethical company, because by definition, ethical handling would forbid them to scale to those levels
2021-02-18T11:54:59 < BrainDamage> the solution is to decentralize the power of those platforms
2021-02-18T11:55:42 < jadew> in what way?
2021-02-18T11:55:44 < BrainDamage> the play store is an effective monopoly, etc etc
2021-02-18T11:56:03 < jadew> ah, I see
2021-02-18T11:56:11 < BrainDamage> you have 2 variables at play here
2021-02-18T11:56:22 < BrainDamage> one, the customer wants a seamless experience
2021-02-18T11:56:42 < BrainDamage> two, you don't want a single entity acting as gatekeeper
2021-02-18T11:57:57 < BrainDamage> that means that eg the same frontend must be able to seamless search all the gatekeepers entries
2021-02-18T11:59:28 < BrainDamage> ofc google would never agree on that
2021-02-18T11:59:39 < jadew> you can force them
2021-02-18T11:59:53 < jadew> you either do this, or you can't operate in our country anymore
2021-02-18T12:00:05 < BrainDamage> yeah, but here we enter again the late stage capitalism debate
2021-02-18T12:00:06 < mawk> they would go to WTC
2021-02-18T12:00:08 < mawk> and sue you
2021-02-18T12:00:11 < mawk> it happened before
2021-02-18T12:00:19 < mawk> and countries routinely lose these trials
2021-02-18T12:00:37 < mawk> the countries are bound to participate in arbitrage trials as per all the treaties they have signed with the mother countries of these companies
2021-02-18T12:00:41 < BrainDamage> where the company has so much leverage that a state authority is not ultimate
2021-02-18T12:01:27 < mawk> unless you're north korea, you're in a few treaties and many have these arbitration clauses
2021-02-18T12:01:38 < mawk> so you can't just kick out companies of your territory without consequences
2021-02-18T12:03:05 < jadew> well, I'm sure that there's a clause there where they have to obey the laws of the countries they operate in
2021-02-18T12:03:40 < jadew> and you can just make a key aspect to be illegal
2021-02-18T12:04:14 < jadew> for example, forcing them to have a working phone number for paying customers, and to answer within x minutes
2021-02-18T12:05:00 < jadew> sure, it may prevent them from scaling, but I'm not convinced we want them to scale if the results are detrimental
2021-02-18T12:05:27 < BrainDamage> I agree we don't want them to scale when the results are this shitty
2021-02-18T12:05:44 < mawk> no you can't jadew 
2021-02-18T12:05:48 < BrainDamage> but again, this is power play between companies and state
2021-02-18T12:05:52 < mawk> you can't pass laws that hinder trade
2021-02-18T12:05:55 < mawk> if you signed one of these treaties
2021-02-18T12:06:09 < mawk> you're responsible under the arbitrage "jurisdisction", not the laws of your own country
2021-02-18T12:06:38 < mawk> to some extent it's understandable
2021-02-18T12:07:24 < mawk> there's this example of a mining company that bought some land and obtained mining permit in Columbia or something, got in massive debt to do the prospection and buy equipment and so on, and as they where getting reading to do the mining the columbian government nationalized the site to kick out the company
2021-02-18T12:07:31 < mawk> because some native indians complained or something
2021-02-18T12:07:39 < mawk> so the company sued the country in the arbitrage court
2021-02-18T12:07:43 < mawk> and they were in their own right
2021-02-18T12:08:07 < mawk> and it's not even google scale company, just a small mining company
2021-02-18T12:08:42 < jadew> well, that's understandable, but what we're talking about is still wrong
2021-02-18T12:09:19 < jadew> and it's not wrong because companies shouldn't be allowed to just turn their back to you, because they should, but because they are monopolies and are turning their back to you
2021-02-18T12:09:23 < mawk> well nobody forced columbia to sign this treaty
2021-02-18T12:09:25 < jadew> that's where the problem is
2021-02-18T12:09:29 < mawk> or maybe arguably yes, but they signed it in the end
2021-02-18T12:09:37 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-18T12:10:03 < jadew> if google decides to block you from search, you're gone
2021-02-18T12:10:43 < jadew> if they decide to block every mention of you on all of their platforms, you don't exist anymore
2021-02-18T12:11:27 < jadew> and if they collude with other big companies, then that's even worse, like we've already seen it happen on several occasions
2021-02-18T12:12:17 < jadew> this kind of stuff should warrant severe repercussions, up to completely destroying the companies in question
2021-02-18T12:13:29 < BrainDamage> the moment you destroy those companies, the service they were providing, for how much shiity it's gone
2021-02-18T12:13:39 < jadew> others will gladly take their place
2021-02-18T12:13:43 < BrainDamage> what you have to do is forcefully allow competition
2021-02-18T12:13:52 < mawk> the competition sucks
2021-02-18T12:13:57 < mawk> like there is this "french google" qwant
2021-02-18T12:14:01 < mawk> they took millions in subventions
2021-02-18T12:14:07 < mawk> turns out they outsource all their search queries to bing
2021-02-18T12:14:12 < BrainDamage> ... or prevent them them to reach a monopoly position
2021-02-18T12:14:59 < BrainDamage> the borderline ethical solution would be to break up google
2021-02-18T12:15:03 < jadew> BrainDamage, clearly, but if the violation is as severe as collusion to destroy whatever entities, then the punishment should be really harsh
2021-02-18T12:15:09 < BrainDamage> make their algos an b public
2021-02-18T12:15:19 < BrainDamage> and db*
2021-02-18T12:15:44 < BrainDamage> so that everyone can make an effective 'me too'
2021-02-18T12:16:08 < jadew> right, after a certain point, when they're the defacto solution and a huge monopoly, then it's fair to consider them a social service
2021-02-18T12:16:35 < jadew> and they can avoid that, by intentionally staying small
2021-02-18T12:17:19 < jadew> hmm... not sure that's a good solution
2021-02-18T12:17:30 < jadew> I don't think I would want 20 operating systems
2021-02-18T12:17:43 < jadew> maybe we do?
2021-02-18T12:18:27 < BrainDamage> again, the consumer cares about frontend, not backen
2021-02-18T12:18:59 < BrainDamage> if you could easily swap backend and have the same experience as consumer, the consumer is sattisfied
2021-02-18T12:19:25 < BrainDamage> ofc perfectly seamless experience is a pipedream, but you can get to an approximation of it
2021-02-18T12:20:00 < BrainDamage> eg you can switch phone number from one company to the other, and require no physical changes
2021-02-18T12:20:21 < BrainDamage> this allows competition and a much fairer ground
2021-02-18T12:20:46 < BrainDamage> you cannot switch company to access google's search db
2021-02-18T12:21:10 < BrainDamage> and the submissions are private to google itself
2021-02-18T12:21:41 < jadew> the problem is google has invested a lot in that db
2021-02-18T12:22:09 < jadew> how do you address that?
2021-02-18T12:22:50 < BrainDamage> one way you could force new submissions to be mirrored to anyone that requests so
2021-02-18T12:23:17 < BrainDamage> it won't make the existing db to go away, but over time the situation would improve
2021-02-18T12:23:41 < BrainDamage> so their investiment remains
2021-02-18T12:24:13 < BrainDamage> again, the general solution is not to shut down the monopoly, but to forcefully allow ccompetition
2021-02-18T12:25:22 < mawk> people would try to find tricks to hit only the true google service
2021-02-18T12:26:08 < BrainDamage> sure, no system is perfect
2021-02-18T12:26:23 < BrainDamage> still better than what we have now
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2021-02-18T12:43:49 < jpa-> http://www.mosaic-industries.com/embedded-systems/microcontroller-projects/electronic-circuits/push-button-switch-turn-on/microcontroller-latching-on-off   maybe this will work
2021-02-18T13:29:58 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-02-18T13:54:32 < mawk> https://youtu.be/JraihhncL7s
2021-02-18T14:21:32 < karlp> bleh, went to make a fake module inkicad to generate a 3d model...
2021-02-18T14:22:01 < karlp> none of the parts on the model have models....
2021-02-18T14:23:33 < karlp> ahhhh, there we go, mixed paths in searchs from updates in kicad.
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2021-02-18T15:06:47 < skz81> mawk : 52 tracks in 100 min, wootch.
2021-02-18T15:20:34 < BrainDamage> jpa-: that looks neat, I'd add one more mos, gpio and 2x50F supercaps in series and you get  free ups too since 25F @ 2A is ~0.1V/s discharge
2021-02-18T15:21:09 < BrainDamage> which should be plenty for auto shutdown on brownout
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2021-02-18T16:27:19 < vegii> why would you not like the f103?
2021-02-18T16:29:08 < zyp> because it's old and annoying
2021-02-18T16:29:19 < vegii> please elaborate
2021-02-18T16:29:42 < zyp> the largest one is that it has v1 of the gpio periphral, every other family got v2
2021-02-18T16:29:52 < vegii> and what's the duck's guts then?
2021-02-18T16:30:17 < vegii> what are the differences in peripherals?
2021-02-18T16:30:31 < jpa-> a billion small differences
2021-02-18T16:30:35 < zyp> v2 has an AF mux for each pin, v1 doesn't and therefore lacks flexibility in AF use
2021-02-18T16:31:02 < vegii> af?
2021-02-18T16:31:12 < zyp> alternate function
2021-02-18T16:31:15 < jpa-> STM32F1 works fine, but it is the oldest of STM32 series and most of the newer stuff is different - so no point learning F1
2021-02-18T16:31:33 < PaulFertser> There was also F100 "value line"
2021-02-18T16:31:50 < zyp> e.g. you can map TIM2_CH1 to any pin capable of that function regardless of how you use other pins
2021-02-18T16:32:16 < vegii> can you use any pin as spi etc. ?
2021-02-18T16:32:17 < PaulFertser> Let's not forget buggy I2C in f10x
2021-02-18T16:32:57 < mawk> no vegii 
2021-02-18T16:33:01 < mawk> on nrf52 you can
2021-02-18T16:33:03 < jpa-> F1 I2C bugs are well known enough that they're not much of a problem nowadays
2021-02-18T16:33:05 < zyp> in v1, you only have a limited remap capability that moves entire groups around, and if you want to use two peripherals that want to use the same pin, there's no way to pick which for that particular pin
2021-02-18T16:34:29 < zyp> probably doesn't matter if all you want to do is blink some leds or whatever, but if you're actually gonna use a bunch of peripherals you want the flexibility v2 gives you
2021-02-18T16:34:45 < vegii> there needs to be some alternate pin functions visualization tool
2021-02-18T16:35:02 < zyp> sure, cubemx probably does that
2021-02-18T16:35:47 < zyp> but why waste time on that when there are better options?
2021-02-18T16:36:17 < vegii> waste on what and what better options?
2021-02-18T16:36:35 < zyp> I don't get why people won't pick the most suitable part for the job instead of trying to shoehorn everything into the shittiest option
2021-02-18T16:37:08 < zyp> literally every other option than f1 means you don't have to waste time on f1 annoyances that only exists on f1
2021-02-18T16:37:47 < vegii> is F401 the duck's guts?
2021-02-18T16:38:05 < zyp> f401 is decent
2021-02-18T16:38:06 < vegii> or should I skip it and take F411... or something else entirely
2021-02-18T16:38:18 < zyp> what for? what's your project?
2021-02-18T16:38:40 < vegii> I mean as a generic arduino to have a few of in the drawer
2021-02-18T16:39:24 < zyp> if you mean something like the f4 blackpill then that looks decent enough
2021-02-18T16:41:22 < vegii> yea, blackpill or the green one
2021-02-18T16:45:10 < vegii> huh STM32F401CCU6 seems out of stock on mouser and stm direct
2021-02-18T16:52:56 < vegii> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H2781808c0b2a47578e0fd5ee6dbc05bfS.jpg
2021-02-18T16:53:36 < vegii> > STM32F401CEU6
2021-02-18T16:56:13 < vegii> ...that's a different datasheet for some reason
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2021-02-18T17:04:43  * Laurenceb fixed the F1 I2C
2021-02-18T17:04:48 < Laurenceb> F1 RTC is also nice
2021-02-18T17:07:54 < Laurenceb> <vegii> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Equine/blob/master/i2c_int.c
2021-02-18T17:56:39 < PaulFertser> Yes, F1 RTC is so much nicer
2021-02-18T17:57:22 < Laurenceb> just set it to unix time or whatever then use standard routines
2021-02-18T18:16:00 < vegii> 32bit unix time?
2021-02-18T18:17:16 < vegii> probably a dumb question
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2021-02-18T18:42:31 < jadew> "we will not be able to provide you the information on the financial regulation, as we not fully trained in this subject.
2021-02-18T18:42:33 < jadew> We have provided you the information that PayPal does not support TransferWise, and this information is final.
2021-02-18T18:42:35 < jadew> "
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2021-02-18T18:43:10 < jadew> I asked them to tell me which regulation prevents them from accepting TransferWise's bank account and that's what they replied
2021-02-18T18:57:40 < Laurenceb> >paypal
2021-02-18T18:58:26 < jpa-> well, the obvious reason is that they would provide too competitive exchange rates ;)
2021-02-18T19:00:05 < jadew> jpa-, exactly
2021-02-18T19:00:09 < jadew> that's why people use them
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2021-02-18T19:01:29 < jadew> what's worse is that you can't charge an additional fee for customers that want to pay with paypal
2021-02-18T19:01:47 < jadew> if you want to charge that fee, you have to apply it across the board, otherwise paypal gets upset
2021-02-18T19:02:08 < jadew> so even if you can offer a cheaper service, paypal forces you not to do that
2021-02-18T19:02:29 < jadew> (at least from the customer's perspective)
2021-02-18T19:02:57 < jadew> because you can still offer the cheaper service, but you have to charge the same
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2021-02-18T19:24:30 < fenugrec> what ? is that in the PP seller agreement or something ?
2021-02-18T19:25:41 < jadew> yeah
2021-02-18T19:26:18 < jadew> they're basically forcing shops to increase prices to account for the PP fees, rather than charge a paypal fee to cover the costs
2021-02-18T19:26:23 < fenugrec> aah, monopolies. trying real hard not to use them, but damn...
2021-02-18T19:32:37 < jadew> I used to have a difference between the USD and EUR price because of their conversion fees
2021-02-18T19:32:41 < jadew> EUR was cheaper
2021-02-18T19:33:11 < jadew> but now that they don't accept transferwise, I'll have to increase prices for EUR too
2021-02-18T19:34:41 < fenugrec> how much do you lose by ditching PP altogether
2021-02-18T19:34:53 < jadew> I don't know
2021-02-18T19:35:17 < jadew> that depends on how many customers won't accept other payment methods
2021-02-18T19:35:19 < jpa-> lol, USB4 has finally added what was missing all along: a real serial bus with USART framing :D
2021-02-18T19:36:30 < Laurenceb> so much crazy shit
2021-02-18T19:36:40 < jpa-> aaaand... they run AT commands over it :D
2021-02-18T19:36:44 < Laurenceb> maybe USB5 will finally sanitise it
2021-02-18T19:36:57 < Laurenceb> there is so much shit that was never built
2021-02-18T19:37:17 < Laurenceb> like the FSK power management on USB3
2021-02-18T19:38:21  * Laurenceb wishes there was a H7 with LVDS input
2021-02-18T19:43:21 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ACdFd6WRY
2021-02-18T19:43:50 < jadew> gamestop hearing
2021-02-18T19:44:35 < jadew> they want to punish the guy who started the movement
2021-02-18T19:46:48 < Laurenceb> Elon Musk
2021-02-18T19:47:21 < Laurenceb> he treats his workers like shit but sometimes makes useful shit
2021-02-18T19:47:31 < Laurenceb> but then there is hyperloop...
2021-02-18T19:47:37 < BrainDamage> because when it's wall street doing it, it's ok, if it's others then they must be punished
2021-02-18T19:47:53 < Laurenceb> thats what Musk wants you to think
2021-02-18T19:48:29 < englishman> tesla buttcoin profits in the last month are already more than all of 2020 profits from selling cars
2021-02-18T19:48:52 < englishman> why bother ever doing anything? stonks
2021-02-18T19:49:18 < jadew> they only go up
2021-02-18T19:50:25 < Steffanx> Fuck buttcoin. Damn it.
2021-02-18T19:50:37 < Steffanx> How can you accept this, englishman 
2021-02-18T19:51:03 < fenugrec> robinhood going under the bus I reckon
2021-02-18T19:51:25 < jpa-> it's not like they could sell them - who is buying billions of bitcoins?
2021-02-18T19:51:26 < BrainDamage> financial operations have always been more profitable than normal physical business
2021-02-18T19:51:50 < BrainDamage> but one exposes you to external influence much more directly
2021-02-18T19:53:41 < jadew> oh shit... they're roasting robinhood too
2021-02-18T19:54:14 < englishman> well lets see jpa
2021-02-18T19:54:23 < englishman> daily volume is around 70k bitbutts
2021-02-18T19:54:35 < englishman> or 3.5 billion dollars per day
2021-02-18T19:54:38 < englishman> @ 50k
2021-02-18T19:55:04 < englishman> peak volume was 207k at end of jan
2021-02-18T19:55:54 < englishman> it was $37.2k on that day for about $7.7b
2021-02-18T19:56:04 < jpa-> englishman: but is that just same speculators selling and buying it back? in which case price would react pretty fast
2021-02-18T19:56:22 < englishman> for sure we don't know that
2021-02-18T19:56:43 < jpa-> it just seems ridiculous that anyone would *need* that much bitcoins for anything but speculation
2021-02-18T19:56:49 < englishman> tesla putting in $1.5b in january could certainly be a reason the price is higher now
2021-02-18T19:57:03 < englishman> well afaik buttcoins are pretty much useless for actual transactions now, due to fees
2021-02-18T19:57:20 < englishman> so they are only for hedging, speculating or storing value
2021-02-18T19:57:26 < jpa-> for buying coffee, sure, but you don't buy coffee with a billion dollars
2021-02-18T19:57:38 < englishman> for example, here there is a buttcoin ETF where you can buy shares of a company that just owns bitbutts
2021-02-18T19:58:00 < englishman> without actually transacting magic internet money
2021-02-18T19:58:32 < jpa-> IIRC tesla was playing some funny bookkeeping tricks with the bitcoins, i wonder if that is the real point of them
2021-02-18T19:59:23 < englishman> i believe this was something about getting them declared as assets vs. investments
2021-02-18T19:59:37 < englishman> but idk
2021-02-18T20:01:34 < jpa-> meh, the USB4 AT commands are not the real AT commands.. i guess they had to leave that part to USB5
2021-02-18T20:01:55 < fenugrec> what, no ATDP 18004441234 ?
2021-02-18T20:02:00 < jpa-> no.. all binary
2021-02-18T20:03:27 < jadew> ok, I think this hearing is about robinhood, not about the GME guy
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2021-02-18T20:07:37 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: in the 90s in russia there was some serious modem modding business. One of the annoying things was that the local PSTN stations were often signalling BUSY in a way that modems never recognised it. Several talented reverse engineers were fixing this and other bugs in the modem firmware, and adding custom features like optional turning on the speaker during the line
2021-02-18T20:07:42 < PaulFertser> retries/renegotiations. There was even a custom DSP implementation to implement soviet caller-id system.
2021-02-18T20:10:37 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, hehe I never went much farther than ATDT/P and ATH0 : )
2021-02-18T20:18:04 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: Fidonet was big, and there were plenty of BBSes.
2021-02-18T20:21:17 < PaulFertser> Talking about callerid and embedded, some company developed a custom board with MCU to implement caller id and other features, and they were buying cheap PSTN phones from china and using just their cases/buttons/handset. The device was printing a personal phone number of the firmware developer and people were just calling him when they needed a custom function implemented (for a fee).
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2021-02-18T20:22:40 < BrainDamage> that's surprisingly sensible
2021-02-18T20:28:10 < PaulFertser> That was a competitive field of course, it wasn't just one company and one developer, but there was a clear leader. Devices available on all "radio-markets".
2021-02-18T20:38:02 -!- mrec_ is now known as mrec
2021-02-18T21:02:02 < PaulFertser> Folks, do you actually feel the pressure and danger from the current trends in social network? It looks like you can get actually fired for not being leftist enough these days, is that true?
2021-02-18T21:02:51 < fenugrec> fact
2021-02-18T21:04:59 < Steffanx> i dont feel danger nor pressure
2021-02-18T21:05:03 < Steffanx> since i dont use those systems
2021-02-18T21:05:08 < Steffanx> *networks
2021-02-18T21:05:10 < fenugrec> smart man
2021-02-18T21:05:41 < fenugrec> smart *person. Don't wanna get fired over an IRC log
2021-02-18T21:06:11 < Steffanx> also when i talk to my colleagues i cannot say they are exactly leftish nor rightist. They probably vote leftish, but their mouth says other things (mostly jokes).
2021-02-18T21:07:19 < Steffanx> Im pretty sure some people will feel pretty damn offended by the jokes there.
2021-02-18T21:07:21 < Steffanx> but fuck that
2021-02-18T21:08:32 < Steffanx> I cannot imagine you have this issue, PaulFertser 
2021-02-18T21:08:41 < Steffanx> this = social network pressure
2021-02-18T21:12:20 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I do not personally, yes, I'm living in russia. Hence asking you folks. 
2021-02-18T21:13:02 < PaulFertser> Every now and then people are telling stories how they were seriously beaten for about nothing, and that's worrying.
2021-02-18T21:13:35 < PaulFertser> They are not going to jail for that, granted, but losing once work can be pretty damn tough too.
2021-02-18T21:14:56 < Steffanx> anyway, i dont feel it my personally, but... its certainly an issue/danger here as well.
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2021-02-18T21:15:46 < PaulFertser> Stallman was kicked out of FSF just for saying accusations against his dead friend were unfounded, without court-worthy evidence or anything like that, if I got it right. Can _that_ be not scary?
2021-02-18T21:16:30 < PaulFertser> Or here's another more recent story: 'Mandalorian' actress Gina Carano fired after social media post comparing Jews' experience in Holocaust to US political climate.
2021-02-18T21:16:32 < fenugrec> public figures risk more, ofc
2021-02-18T21:18:21 < fenugrec> can't find a reference, but there was this (openly homosexual) person, a  good person doing a good job by all accounts; posted some criticism about some lgbt issue, and he got fired. Nobody is safe !
2021-02-18T21:19:33 < PaulFertser> So is it not too much of a stretch when some talk about new era witch hunts and angry mobs these days?
2021-02-18T21:20:11 < fenugrec> it's a poetic exaggeration, but based in hard truth
2021-02-18T21:20:16 < PaulFertser> Does it really affect your real life, do you actually feel a need to self-censor what you say in public spaces (even assuming your jokes are much milder than dongs's)?
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2021-02-18T21:22:04 < PaulFertser> Poor steffanx got downgraded, the first letter is no longer prominent :)
2021-02-18T21:22:08 < steffanx> hah,
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2021-02-18T21:22:41 < steffanx> The "cancel culture" is getting larger here as well PaulFertser. For sure it is getting larger. Which indeed is a sad thing (imho).
2021-02-18T21:24:28 < steffanx> Especially when it happens due to bad joke (imho bad jokes are the best), or just a misinterpreted joke or even worse: a joke completely taken out of context.
2021-02-18T21:24:31 < fenugrec> I have the luxury of working with people who have a sense of humor, so no. Public spaces... subconsciously, maybe. So many public figures (at least in Canada) shot down for hardly  more than a comment in bad taste or some perceived verbal injustice
2021-02-18T21:25:34 < steffanx> Heh, exactly the same here fenugrec :)
2021-02-18T21:26:18 < steffanx> Im pretty sure my colleagues would be shot down if they were a public person and made the jokes they make sometimes.
2021-02-18T21:26:44 < fenugrec> hahah  those are the best jokes
2021-02-18T21:26:47 < steffanx> Anyway, are you folks all ready for the most wonderful mars landing of the year?
2021-02-18T21:27:02 < PaulFertser> Impactful?
2021-02-18T21:27:04 < emeb_mac> warming up the TV for the livestream
2021-02-18T21:27:07 < steffanx> (not sure if any others are planned for this year though :D  )
2021-02-18T21:27:10 < fenugrec> when
2021-02-18T21:27:18 < emeb_mac> about an hour
2021-02-18T21:27:20 < steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg&feature=emb_title the stream is live.
2021-02-18T21:29:21 < PaulFertser> steffanx: that's odd one has to count on his or her peers being sane with a sense of humour and without bad intents when talking; sounds too much like the soviet times :(
2021-02-18T21:32:00 < steffanx> oh, i wasnt talking about work situation. it mainly happens with public persons PaulFertser.
2021-02-18T21:33:04 < steffanx> Like we have this tv show where a few guys have pub-like talk about soccer and anything not even closely related to soccer. They get "cancelled" once in a while
2021-02-18T21:33:20 < PaulFertser> steffanx: what if you have a blog like some people here, and you're occassionally writing something about people or society rather than electronics?
2021-02-18T21:34:17 < steffanx> Im not sure to be honest. You will have to get noticed in the first place, then attract the wrong people and .. idk.
2021-02-18T21:35:16 < PaulFertser> Talking about offending statements, many people were outraged when putin sentenced Pussy Riot members to two years in prison. But sometimes losing one's job might be a harsher punishment.
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2021-02-18T21:40:47 < steffanx> heh i dont know much about those ladies nor what they did exactly
2021-02-18T21:41:47 < steffanx> i mean: i forgot
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2021-02-18T22:12:57 < PaulFertser> Steffanx_: a music video called "Punk prayer" shot in a temple.
2021-02-18T22:15:36 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, how about at the other end - what does the "average" person think about the fact that protesting in the street will get you arrested ?
2021-02-18T22:17:21 < Laurenceb> Heterosexual and woman-focussed lactation language can hard transmasculine parents and non heteronormative families because it can misgender
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2021-02-18T22:18:42 < PaulFertser> I do not enjoy those girls on nasa tv. They make it look as if they enjoy discussing non-essential shallow topics and we should too.
2021-02-18T22:19:29 < Steffanx_> You enjoy those smart-arse kids PaulFertser ?
2021-02-18T22:19:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx_: more than the nasa girls for sure
2021-02-18T22:20:09 < PaulFertser> They look like geeks
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2021-02-18T22:20:35 < srk> that blue lights in the control room, lol
2021-02-18T22:21:16 < PaulFertser> Remember to hashtag. FFS!
2021-02-18T22:21:37 < PaulFertser> Give us the telemetery dammit
2021-02-18T22:21:45 < Steffanx_> im not even listening so i cant be bothered
2021-02-18T22:21:46 < fenugrec> purrsurrverance
2021-02-18T22:24:35 < PaulFertser> I wonder if it's common for an engineer to say "oh my gosh". Somehow it seems that the very word "gosh" is stupid. Kinda like those into judaism write G-d.
2021-02-18T22:25:45 < Steffanx_> lol what is bothering you today mr PaulFertser ?
2021-02-18T22:25:58 < fenugrec> is there a technical livestream or just this PR trash ?
2021-02-18T22:26:07 < Laurenceb> just turn off the sound to avoid the cancer
2021-02-18T22:26:36 < Steffanx_> can i turn off you Laurenceb ?
2021-02-18T22:26:52 < Laurenceb> violent threats are against us law
2021-02-18T22:27:19 < Steffanx_> luckily neither you nor me are there
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2021-02-18T22:28:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: what fenugrec says. I wanted something entertaining rather than annoying in many subtle and obvious ways.
2021-02-18T22:29:15 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: lol, alright. but you seem into the complain mood today. idk.
2021-02-18T22:30:47 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: today I complained about Intel once. And then I asked about personal experience with the angry leftists, that wasn't complaining. And yes, now I'm complaining about the stream, I admit. The stream could have been much better and interesting, you have to admit too.
2021-02-18T22:31:10 < Steffanx> ok the last few hours. but thats pretty much irc-today for me :)
2021-02-18T22:31:21 < Steffanx> im not really listening PaulFertser . 
2021-02-18T22:31:34 < Steffanx> Reading HID PID docs, again.
2021-02-18T22:32:21 < PaulFertser> Intel response on _premier_ support really surprised me. I didn't expect a person not knowing English to answer, and I didn't expect they could be not knowing that Purley platform includes Skylake (aka SKX-SP) processors, especially for a person answering about Purley specifically.
2021-02-18T22:37:28 < bitmask> hmmmmm should I make a sputtering chamber :/
2021-02-18T22:38:53 < Steffanx> no, wear a mask
2021-02-18T22:40:06 < bitmask> muh muh mask?
2021-02-18T22:42:46 < Laurenceb> bitmask: what do you want to sputter with?
2021-02-18T22:43:03 < bitmask> make some alu mirrors
2021-02-18T22:43:11 < bitmask> maybe copper
2021-02-18T22:43:15 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-02-18T22:43:33 < Laurenceb> maybe I could do that to make horn antenna
2021-02-18T22:43:53 < Laurenceb> I was thinking of trying electroforming
2021-02-18T22:44:15 < Laurenceb> dont you need really high vacuum?
2021-02-18T22:44:28 < bitmask> yea i wanna get back into electroplating/forming too
2021-02-18T22:44:32 < mawk> just use your hyperloop Laurenceb 
2021-02-18T22:44:43 < Steffanx> bitmask: "sputtering" > to spit or squirt particles of food or saliva noisily from the mouth :P
2021-02-18T22:45:07 < bitmask> I think with dc magnetron sputtering you can get away with 50 micron vacuum which my two stage rotary vane pump should be able to do
2021-02-18T22:45:55 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-18T22:45:56 < bitmask> Steffanx haha its always been my dream to be good at that
2021-02-18T22:46:17 < Steffanx> > micron
2021-02-18T22:46:52 < bitmask> my pump is 'rated' for 15 micron, I know I won't achieve that in practice though
2021-02-18T22:47:20 < mawk> is 15µ a vacuum grade at which you have to worry about your gaskets degasing and so on?
2021-02-18T22:47:30 < bitmask> I think 100 micron/mTorr is the absolute minimum that will work
2021-02-18T22:47:39 < mawk> µ
2021-02-18T22:47:52 < bitmask> pretty sure outgassing is always a concern
2021-02-18T22:50:35 < Laurenceb> rover has crashed
2021-02-18T22:50:42 < Laurenceb>  /troll
2021-02-18T22:51:10 < Steffanx> Hows rockooning Laurenceb ?
2021-02-18T22:51:39 < Laurenceb> maybe after hyperloop
2021-02-18T22:52:14 < Steffanx> hyperloop is never going to happen i heard, so.. that means never?
2021-02-18T22:53:42 < Laurenceb> musk hyperloop isnt
2021-02-18T22:53:46 < Laurenceb> this might
2021-02-18T22:55:18 < Steffanx> wut? Hyperclone?
2021-02-18T22:56:29 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-18T22:56:45 < Laurenceb> official hyperloop is retarded and will never work
2021-02-18T22:56:56 < bitmask> landed on mars
2021-02-18T22:57:50 < Steffanx> Good job bitmask 
2021-02-18T22:57:57 < bitmask> thanks
2021-02-18T22:58:00 < bitmask> it was hard work
2021-02-18T22:58:10 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-18T22:58:23 < Laurenceb> enjoy ur vacation
2021-02-18T22:58:36  * Laurenceb turns on Total Recall
2021-02-18T22:59:02 < Steffanx> Laurenceb doesnt watch movies..
2021-02-18T23:00:08 < bitmask> oh shit, the arduino froze, rover dead
2021-02-18T23:00:09 < Laurenceb> >Steffanx thought I was working on actual hyperloop
2021-02-18T23:00:15 < Laurenceb> I'm not that retarded
2021-02-18T23:00:24 < fenugrec> please wait while windows reboots your rover to install updates
2021-02-18T23:01:36 < bitmask> no drivers found for mars rover, would you like to search the internet?
2021-02-18T23:02:14 < Laurenceb> sending rovers to Mars is literally rape
2021-02-18T23:02:53 < Laurenceb> they cant consent 
2021-02-18T23:04:31 < Laurenceb> http://www.etd.ceu.hu/2015/szucs_tamara.pdf
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2021-02-18T23:08:56 < fenugrec> so nasa is using some 90's era GUI toolkit, nice : https://ibb.co/m40qBN1 
2021-02-18T23:10:25 < fenugrec> what is that again, standard tcl/tk buttons & colors ?
2021-02-18T23:16:37 < tct> what´s wrong with that?
2021-02-18T23:17:37 < fenugrec> heh I thought your nick was "tcl" for a moment
2021-02-18T23:17:50 < PaulFertser> Some serious big rotor blades there.
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2021-02-18T23:19:52 < tct> :)
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2021-02-18T23:23:40 < fenugrec> no thing wrong with tcl/tk of course, but does that color even ship as default on anything now ? or they made a conscious choice to choose that look - all their other visible GUIs are nice polished "dark theme" modern toolkits etc.
2021-02-18T23:25:01 < PaulFertser> Why did they show us 3d slides but no live telemetry was overlayed? :(
2021-02-18T23:26:33 < PaulFertser> Israeli moon landing broadcast was the best
2021-02-18T23:28:33 < Laurenceb> when I worked with nasa stuff it was all solaris only
2021-02-18T23:28:44 < Laurenceb> had to install solaris on sun workstation
2021-02-18T23:37:29 < Laurenceb> shheeeett
2021-02-18T23:37:40 < Laurenceb> muh sister in law is meeting mr musk himself
2021-02-18T23:37:58 < Laurenceb> apparently he is helping with turtle rescue shit
2021-02-18T23:38:35 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y
2021-02-18T23:40:04 < Laurenceb> inb4 its a repeat of cave rescue guy
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--- Day changed Fri Feb 19 2021
2021-02-19T00:01:16 < Steffanx> Implying Laurenceb's sister or brother is married.
2021-02-19T00:01:45 < Laurenceb> >sister or brother
2021-02-19T00:01:52 < Laurenceb> no rug munchers in my family
2021-02-19T00:12:31 < Steffanx> Dont forget earlier today you reminded me again there is a difference between the things you say and what you mean, Laurenceb 
2021-02-19T00:25:01 < qyx> the gui picture is awful
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2021-02-19T00:46:00 < Steffanx> What gui pic mr qyx 
2021-02-19T00:52:01 < qyx> 22:08 < fenugrec> so nasa is using some 90's era GUI toolkit, nice : https://ibb.co/m40qBN1 
2021-02-19T00:52:32 < fenugrec> hey, 720p YT encoding, what did you expect
2021-02-19T00:54:52 < zyp> also looked like they were running wireshark
2021-02-19T00:55:26 < zyp> probably not wireshark, but it seemed to be coloring lines in a similar manner :)
2021-02-19T00:57:57 < qyx> radioshark
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2021-02-19T01:20:38 < Laurenceb> muh linear tiem
2021-02-19T01:20:46 < Laurenceb> current year gui toolkit
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2021-02-19T03:44:22 < fenugrec> what  would be the proper name for a digital filter that counts 'events per second', decaying to 0 with a certain time constant
2021-02-19T03:45:05 < fenugrec> basically a 1-pole filter ... IIR ? I don't DSP much
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2021-02-19T04:27:19 < aandrew> I'd call that a leaky peak read but that's clearly not the correct name
2021-02-19T04:27:23 < aandrew> leaky integrator maybe
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2021-02-19T08:04:22 < jpa-> fenugrec: sounds like exponential moving average
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2021-02-19T09:12:10 < jpa-> now the dutchies have "shipped" my DMM&PSU, which appears to mean that they have put it in a numbered box that is still sitting in their warehouse many days later..
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2021-02-19T09:20:15 < Steffanx> Dont blame me jpa- 
2021-02-19T09:20:31 < jpa-> i would never blame you
2021-02-19T09:21:34 < Steffanx> Alright 
2021-02-19T09:21:58 < Steffanx> Just blame mawk. Hes french 
2021-02-19T09:23:49 < jpa-> the company seems to blame brexiters :)
2021-02-19T09:27:14 < Steffanx> Hah
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2021-02-19T10:34:26 < skz81> <fenugrec> what is that again, standard tcl/tk buttons & colors ? >> Would have said Motif/Xt rather
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2021-02-19T11:34:00 < karlp> which these days are only seen in tk...
2021-02-19T11:34:32 < karlp> I mean, really, does anyone use cde these days?
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2021-02-19T13:15:25 < mawk> let's buy st stock
2021-02-19T13:21:40 < englishman> it's a good performer
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2021-02-19T14:29:53 < zyp> hmm, the flash architecture in g4 looks interesting
2021-02-19T14:31:05 < zyp> apparently it has two blocks of 32kx64 that can either be accessed as 32kx128 or 64kx64
2021-02-19T14:33:24 < zyp> the former should be faster, but the latter would allow reads from one block while the other is being written
2021-02-19T14:35:43 < fenugrec> jpa-, aandrew , thanks - I read a bit more on filters and went with a simpler approach. Just 8k ROM left and still missing more important features P)
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2021-02-19T14:52:15 < zyp> it's also possible to swap the addrs of the two flash banks, so an image can be linked for 0x8000000 and then be stored in either bank
2021-02-19T14:57:51 < karlp> handy.
2021-02-19T14:57:57 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-19T15:00:33 < zyp> got a project to do a bootloader solution for a customer, comms needs much of the normal functionality to run so the reasonable solution seems to be just building it into the firmware itself, writing to the inactive bank
2021-02-19T15:02:19 < zyp> and then making a small stub to go in the first flash page of both banks that decides which of the two images to run
2021-02-19T15:02:29 < zyp> including watchdog fallback and whatever
2021-02-19T15:03:08 < zyp> by keeping the same stub in both banks, it should be able to just swap banks on the fly
2021-02-19T15:03:34 < zyp> stm32g4 looks pretty great otherwise btw
2021-02-19T15:03:54 < zyp> it got csr/hsi48, i.e. crystalless usb
2021-02-19T15:05:01 < zyp> has anybody looked at how it compares in price to other families?
2021-02-19T15:15:06 < fenugrec> I think you could actually buy a G474 last week, which is something
2021-02-19T15:15:50 < fenugrec> G474RET6, paid 14$C
2021-02-19T15:17:21 < zyp> g431 looks well stocked
2021-02-19T15:26:30 < zyp> dual bank is only available in g47x/48x though
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2021-02-19T17:03:50 < Laurenceb> crt has lost it
2021-02-19T17:03:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzt2zzSolZs
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2021-02-19T17:23:24 < Steffanx> He looks a bit old for being cry, Laurenceb 
2021-02-19T17:23:28 < Steffanx> Crt*
2021-02-19T17:23:40 < Laurenceb> acts like how I imagine crt tho
2021-02-19T17:23:54 < Laurenceb> >3 hours livestream
2021-02-19T17:23:58 < Laurenceb> my sides
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2021-02-19T18:27:14 < karlp> can you get light pipes cheap in china? I can't really find them on lcsc?
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2021-02-19T18:43:51 < qyx> there are some on tme, not very cheap though
2021-02-19T18:48:10 < karlp> the simplifications for the pcb look like it will be worth it, even with digikey pricing.
2021-02-19T18:49:04 < Laurenceb> holy sheeett
2021-02-19T18:49:27 < Laurenceb> >hyperloop planning 0.5MW/wheel vehicle
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2021-02-19T18:59:26 < srk> mmm, solid. with a bit of no2 cooling 
2021-02-19T19:00:35 < srk> I've tried to use sleep and SRAM2 retention on L4 with dual banks but it wasn't able to cold-boot. screwed up somewhere
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2021-02-19T19:16:53 < srk> https://github.com/nasa/fprime
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2021-02-19T19:16:55 < srk> It’s called the RTE, because everything has to have an acronym.
2021-02-19T19:16:55 < srk> https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/aerospace/robotic-exploration/nasa-designed-perseverance-helicopter-rover-fly-autonomously-mars
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2021-02-19T19:18:44 < qyx> if I wanted to slow down a clock source by an arbitrary freq, I can do it by skipping some clock pulses
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2021-02-19T19:19:09 < qyx> surely theres an algo for selecting which pulses to skip
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2021-02-19T19:19:46 < qyx> eg. I have 3600*32768 pulses during a single hour
2021-02-19T19:20:03 < qyx> and I need to skip eg. 13 pulses
2021-02-19T19:20:15 < qyx> how to select which ones?
2021-02-19T19:20:18 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, accumulate error and skip on overflow
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2021-02-19T19:22:41 < jpa-> qyx: if you know you are fast by X pulses per hour, every time you run your control loop do:    accumulator += X * ticks_since_last_check;    if (accumulator > ticks_in_hour) { skip_pulse(); accumulator -= ticks_in_hour; }
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2021-02-19T19:29:20  * qyx parsing
2021-02-19T19:29:55 < qyx> so on a hourly basis, compute X, lets say it is 13, set accumulator to 0
2021-02-19T19:30:42 < qyx> every second, accumulator += 13 * 32768; if (accumulator > (36000*32768)) skip(); accumulator -= 3600;
2021-02-19T19:30:46 < qyx> hm
2021-02-19T19:31:05 < jpa-> umm no
2021-02-19T19:31:16 < jpa-> set accumulator to 0 only on boot
2021-02-19T19:31:22 < jpa-> compute X as often as you want
2021-02-19T19:31:53 < jpa-> and in the last line, accumulator -= 3600 * 32768;
2021-02-19T19:32:06 < fenugrec_> it's sort of a continuous "modulo ticks_in_hour"
2021-02-19T19:32:50 < jpa-> yeah - and if you have negative X, just add    if (accumulator < -3600 * 32768) { extra_pulse(); accumulator += 3600 * 32768; }    and it will work for that also
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2021-02-19T19:37:52 < qyx> =ól
2021-02-19T19:38:51 < qyx> kid says ok
2021-02-19T19:39:04 < qyx> hm, yeah, I'll try that approach
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2021-02-19T19:53:56 < zyp> I think somebody took a brain sample of me today
2021-02-19T19:54:04 < zyp> those covid test swabs goes surprisingly deep
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2021-02-19T19:54:33 < zyp> «damn, didn't know my head was that hollow»
2021-02-19T19:56:20 < jpa-> it wasn't nearly as bad as it was advertised to be
2021-02-19T19:56:48 < zyp> yeah
2021-02-19T19:57:00 < zyp> bit uncomfortable but less so than I imagined
2021-02-19T19:58:18 < qyx> heh, I was sampled for the 6th time today
2021-02-19T19:59:09 < jpa-> 6 times in a single day? you must have some really scary symptoms!
2021-02-19T19:59:44 < zyp> on comfort I'd say it was a walk in the park compared to std screening :p
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2021-02-19T20:03:26 < qyx> I probably did something wrong
2021-02-19T20:04:09 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/x0z60
2021-02-19T20:04:39 < qyx> nominally I run the handler with a 32768 period
2021-02-19T20:05:45 < jpa-> as an improvement, you could take the real interval with    time_now = lptim->ticks; delta = time_now - time_prev; time_prev = time_now;
2021-02-19T20:06:13 < jpa-> what does lptim_arr_adjust do? does it get zeroed after the adjustment executes?
2021-02-19T20:06:32 < jpa-> actually
2021-02-19T20:06:38 < jpa-> what
2021-02-19T20:06:52 < qyx> arr adjust is a number added to the nominal period
2021-02-19T20:07:00 < jpa-> that's just weird, your X is same time your input and output?
2021-02-19T20:07:00 < qyx> so -1 or +1
2021-02-19T20:07:27 < qyx> no, lptim adjust is adjustment of the lptim, arr djust is adjustmen of the ARR register :P
2021-02-19T20:07:38 < jpa-> no, ah, now i see you just correct for the period with the previous adjustment
2021-02-19T20:08:08 < qyx> yes, if the last period was adjusted, it is reflected in the first line
2021-02-19T20:08:27 < qyx> then I zero it, because I don't want to adjust multiple periods
2021-02-19T20:08:27 < jpa-> ok yeah
2021-02-19T20:08:48 < qyx> but it always falls to the -1 case
2021-02-19T20:08:53 < qyx> lets to some printf debugging
2021-02-19T20:09:07 < jpa-> is the variable unsigned? ;)
2021-02-19T20:17:43 < qyx> of course
2021-02-19T20:17:46 < qyx> it works now :>
2021-02-19T20:18:26 < qyx> setting lptim_adjust to 1000 it roughly acts every 3 overflows
2021-02-19T20:18:31 < qyx> which looks corrects
2021-02-19T20:19:04 < qyx> tnaks
2021-02-19T20:20:28 < jpa-> :)
2021-02-19T20:22:09 < jpa-> i've used that algorithm in the past - it's nice in that you can independently change the adjustment and the check period as often as you want - for example if you go to low power sleep mode, you don't need to wake every second just to update the ticks
2021-02-19T20:22:58 < qyx> I wakeup on every lptim overflow so it is easy to do
2021-02-19T20:23:18 < jpa-> such waste of power ;)
2021-02-19T20:24:54 < qyx> I need to keep track of them and theres is virtually no other possiblity in lptim as it is 16 bit only
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2021-02-19T22:12:12 < fenugrec> who was it suggestion "X macros" for auto-generating stuff like enums etc ?
2021-02-19T22:12:16 < fenugrec> *suggesting
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2021-02-19T22:13:04 < Steffanx> jpa- himself for sure.
2021-02-19T22:14:00 < fenugrec> ah yes. Neat trick, just tried it - main issue for me is that fancy IDE auto-completion won't work anymore on the generated enums
2021-02-19T22:16:23 < fenugrec> cog looks interesting, but python...
2021-02-19T22:18:39 < Steffanx> Yes python.. what are you implying fenugrec ?
2021-02-19T22:18:48 < Steffanx> ##stm32-hates-python?
2021-02-19T22:21:08 < fenugrec> Steffanx, I hope my aversion to snakecode doesn't disqualify me from this prestigious chan
2021-02-19T22:21:27 < Steffanx> I respect your opinion fenugrec 
2021-02-19T22:21:36 < fenugrec> hehe thank you
2021-02-19T22:32:59 < zyp> pff, python is great :)
2021-02-19T22:33:57 < fenugrec> it certainly is popular
2021-02-19T22:34:22 < Steffanx> Dont you dare to say a bad word about Guido
2021-02-19T22:34:25 < zyp> not sure about cog though, I prefer jinja
2021-02-19T22:35:49 < zyp> see e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/interrupt_enums.h.j2?h=dev_v2 for enum generation
2021-02-19T22:36:29 < fenugrec> zyp, thanks I was just about to ask for examples
2021-02-19T22:37:44 < Steffanx> better not show the yaml attached to that :P
2021-02-19T22:38:39 < mawk> I tried tying miso and mosi together with a resistor between the two
2021-02-19T22:38:46 < mawk> then miso into the mosi/miso of the slave
2021-02-19T22:38:56 < zyp> eh, why not
2021-02-19T22:38:58 < mawk> but I get nonsense values when reading, something is floating
2021-02-19T22:39:06 < zyp> it's composed from https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms/cortex-m.yaml?h=dev_v2#n9 and https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/platforms/stm32/f4.yaml?h=dev_v2#n110
2021-02-19T22:39:13 < mawk> I looked into the official code for the device, they have a wonderful solution to fix that problem: they never read from the slave
2021-02-19T22:40:27 < mawk> I guess I'll do the same
2021-02-19T22:40:49 < Steffanx> im still not sure what device youre talking to mr mawk 
2021-02-19T22:40:56 < mawk> eink screen*
2021-02-19T22:41:06 < Steffanx> oh the waveshare thingy
2021-02-19T22:42:23 < fenugrec> zyp, was yaml a choice or is that what jinj needs
2021-02-19T22:42:50 < zyp> choice, it's completely unrelated
2021-02-19T22:43:24 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-02-19T22:43:27 < mawk> they have 3 wire spi
2021-02-19T22:43:32 < mawk> miso/mosi tied together
2021-02-19T22:43:42 < mawk> but their doc for reading from the bus are extremely unclear
2021-02-19T22:43:47 < mawk> and their official code never does reads anyway
2021-02-19T22:43:52 < mawk> maybe it's not even possible
2021-02-19T22:44:43 < fenugrec> I see. Just didn't find that part in the scons magic
2021-02-19T22:45:53 < fenugrec> ah nm, in build/
2021-02-19T22:45:59 < zyp> the yaml is ingested and processed by https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/build/scons_tools/tool_platform_spec.py?h=dev_v2
2021-02-19T22:47:25 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/build/scons_tools/tool_selectmcu.py?h=dev_v2 creates a PLATFORM_SPEC environment key with the end result for the selected platform
2021-02-19T22:47:39 < zyp> and the various SConscripts are pulling from that to feed to jinja
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2021-02-19T22:48:44 < zyp> e.g. https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/tree/interrupt/SConscript?h=dev_v2 for the template I linked earlier
2021-02-19T22:50:30 < zyp> jinja accepts any python objects, so you can use whatever you find convenient
2021-02-19T22:50:56 < zyp> e.g. it'd work the same if you wanted to have a .csv of interrupts
2021-02-19T22:52:50 < fenugrec> right
2021-02-19T22:53:28 < zyp> or I mean, nothing prevents you from doing a {% for i in range(256) %} either, if that's what you need:)
2021-02-19T22:54:28 < fenugrec> cog would be perfect for that kind of simple codegen
2021-02-19T22:55:02 < zyp> but what makes cog better than jinja?
2021-02-19T22:55:33 < fenugrec> never used it. in-place file editing could be seen as an advantage
2021-02-19T22:55:58 < zyp> wait, what
2021-02-19T22:57:01 < zyp> that sounds like a disaster :)
2021-02-19T23:03:18 < zyp> hmm, actually you might have a point
2021-02-19T23:05:26 < zyp> if the point of codegen is simply to avoid having to type out something manually then you might want to just generate something and check it into source control
2021-02-19T23:05:59 < zyp> and when you do I guess it makes sense enough to embed the generator itself in a comment in the file
2021-02-19T23:07:26 < zyp> but for anything taking variable input that sounds like a disaster, generated output in that case has nothing to do in source control :)
2021-02-19T23:10:00 < fenugrec> actually cog can apparently output to a separate file too. Dunno, it seems like an overall simpler tool, without its own templating syntax
2021-02-19T23:11:02 < fenugrec> But, this is cool and all, but Im̀ procrastinating and this code ain't going to write itself P)
2021-02-19T23:11:18 < Steffanx> its almost weekend fenugrec 
2021-02-19T23:11:35 < fenugrec> Whoa, m̀ is an unknown character to me
2021-02-19T23:12:05 < zyp> my covid test came back negative
2021-02-19T23:12:27 < zyp> pretty quick turnaround
2021-02-19T23:12:58 < fenugrec> " m̀ (Zhuyin ㄇˋ) : a response in the affirmative " (mandarin). 
2021-02-19T23:13:29 < Steffanx> Here we have this breath test now.. which they claim to be pretty good at telling you most certainly have no covid.
2021-02-19T23:13:46 < zyp> this was a standard PCR
2021-02-19T23:14:20 < fenugrec> covid breathalizer ? cool... I've done the nose-stick, nose-wash, and saliva, can't wait to try others
2021-02-19T23:14:22 < Steffanx> Yeah, here they now want to give you the breath test first and when it is inconclusive you must go for pcr. But its not widly used yet i think.
2021-02-19T23:14:33 < antto> KOPOHA Bupyc
2021-02-19T23:14:45 < Steffanx> ty anttonov
2021-02-19T23:15:44 < Steffanx> Google does not know how to translate that, mr antto 
2021-02-19T23:15:46 < Steffanx> Cat typing?
2021-02-19T23:16:05 < antto> cuz i wrote it with latin lett0rz
2021-02-19T23:23:27 < mawk> do you feel adventurous tonight Steffanx ?
2021-02-19T23:23:33 < mawk> https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/7/7f/4.2inch-e-paper-b-specification.pdf
2021-02-19T23:23:52 < Steffanx> No i dont want to get outside and give the government free money
2021-02-19T23:24:00 < mawk> good
2021-02-19T23:24:02 < zyp> wat
2021-02-19T23:24:04 < mawk> because that wasn't my suggestion
2021-02-19T23:24:12 < Steffanx> curfew, zyp 
2021-02-19T23:24:12 < mawk> my suggestion was to help me talk to the eink screen by reading this spec
2021-02-19T23:24:14 < mawk> lol
2021-02-19T23:24:24 < zyp> fun
2021-02-19T23:25:31 < qyx> fenugrec: heh we only do nose swabs, either Ag or PCR
2021-02-19T23:26:56 < zyp> oh, by the way, I forgot to mention about jinja, it's common enough that editors actually support stacked syntax highlighting: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cyLHq.png
2021-02-19T23:28:10 < Steffanx> what editor is that? vs code?
2021-02-19T23:28:18 < zyp> yes
2021-02-19T23:32:12 < fenugrec> neat
2021-02-19T23:45:22 < mawk> oh hmm I got rid of the resistor
2021-02-19T23:45:26 < mawk> and now I think it works better
2021-02-19T23:45:33 < mawk> but if I misconfigure something it will short
2021-02-19T23:49:00 < mawk> I think I can make my MOSI float when I'm reading to be extra sure to not short stuff
2021-02-19T23:49:29 < mawk> the pin is in alternate mode, and the only thing I have to do is put it in input mode with MODER register right?
--- Day changed Sat Feb 20 2021
2021-02-20T00:00:53 < mawk> I have the feeling the device is kinda not made for reads
2021-02-20T00:00:57 < mawk> it's pulling my clock low
2021-02-20T00:01:04 < mawk> it's not really supposed to happen for a slave right?
2021-02-20T00:04:12 < mawk> it's it pulling it low stronger than a stm32 pullup
2021-02-20T00:04:27 < mawk> probably it doesn't hurt but it confuses the logic analyzer
2021-02-20T00:19:28 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-20T00:20:06 < zyp> so the QUADSPI periph only supports memory mapped reads, while the OCTOSPI one supports memory mapped reads and writes?
2021-02-20T00:21:51 < mawk> I think there is a shitty state machine inside the eink screen, like they reused some SPI IP and they haven't used it properly
2021-02-20T00:22:01 < mawk> and when I don't respect the hidden scheme then it goes crazy
2021-02-20T00:22:13 < mawk> it outputs some kind of clock on its MISO pin
2021-02-20T00:27:38 < mawk> I found
2021-02-20T00:27:45 < mawk> I need to write back what I just read into the register
2021-02-20T00:27:51 < mawk> to reset some kind of state machine inside the slave
2021-02-20T00:28:02 < mawk> why didn't they say that in datasheet
2021-02-20T00:36:23 < mawk> actually that's just half the puzzle
2021-02-20T00:36:25 < mawk> fuck that
2021-02-20T00:36:27 < mawk> I'm not doing reads
2021-02-20T00:37:09 < mawk> now there's some kind of 0xAA being shifted out invariably on MISO, but with some phase wrt to the clock
2021-02-20T00:37:19 < mawk> and with transitions not at the right moments
2021-02-20T00:37:41 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210219233738489.png
2021-02-20T01:16:49 < mawk> I quit
2021-02-20T01:16:55 < mawk> maybe I'll send a message to their support though
2021-02-20T01:17:01 < mawk> the chinese may enlighten me
2021-02-20T01:17:20 < zyp> what are you failing with?
2021-02-20T01:19:21 < mawk> yes zyp only reads I guess for quadspi
2021-02-20T01:19:25 < mawk> zyp: https://www.waveshare.com/w/upload/7/7f/4.2inch-e-paper-b-specification.pdf
2021-02-20T01:19:27 < mawk> this
2021-02-20T01:19:43 < mawk> you can maybe have some kind of pagefault based mechanism to do memory-mapped writes though
2021-02-20T01:19:51 < zyp> haha
2021-02-20T01:19:53 < zyp> meh
2021-02-20T01:19:53 < mawk> intercept whatever exception is thrown to make the write yourself
2021-02-20T01:19:55 < mawk> would look cool
2021-02-20T01:19:57 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T01:20:15 < zyp> so how is your epaper failing?
2021-02-20T01:20:31 < mawk> it's working fine, but I can't read from registers
2021-02-20T01:20:38 < mawk> it's not strictly needed, the official code doesn't even do it
2021-02-20T01:20:44 < mawk> but when I write a library I like it to be complete
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2021-02-20T01:21:10 < mawk> first the SPI scheme is weird with MISO and MOSI tied together, and then the datasheet doesn't even have explicit instructions for reading
2021-02-20T01:21:25 < mawk> I assumed to read that I need to write register address, and then read data from the bus
2021-02-20T01:21:29 < mawk> but apparently this assumption is too simple
2021-02-20T01:21:44 < mawk> and then there's this state machine bullshit where you need to write back wht you just read otherwise garbage gets put in the register
2021-02-20T01:22:16 < mawk> I have a shitty breadboard and long cables so maybe it's related, so to eliminate this factor I will try to shorten the cables another day and skip reads for now I think
2021-02-20T01:22:52 < zyp> did you read the datasheet?
2021-02-20T01:22:56 < mawk> yeah several times
2021-02-20T01:23:05 < zyp> «This pin (BS) is for 3-line SPI or 4-line SPI selection. When it is
2021-02-20T01:23:06 < zyp> “Low”, 4-line SPI is selected.»
2021-02-20T01:23:12 < zyp> schematic shows it's tied low
2021-02-20T01:23:14 < mawk> yeah I have BS=0
2021-02-20T01:23:18 < zyp> bidir would be high
2021-02-20T01:23:28 < mawk> what they call 3-line SPI is not 3 wire spi
2021-02-20T01:23:35 < mawk> it's actually 9-bit spi
2021-02-20T01:23:46 < mawk> with a leading bit telling if it's data or command, I2C style
2021-02-20T01:24:03 < mawk> and when BS=0 then the 9th bit becomes real pin (DC), and SPI is regular 8 bits
2021-02-20T01:24:09 < zyp> ah, so inband DC
2021-02-20T01:24:17 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-20T01:24:17 < zyp> right
2021-02-20T01:25:21 < mawk> the only actual mention to reading is this:
2021-02-20T01:25:23 < mawk> Registers marked ‘W/R’ can be read, but the contents are written when the SPI command completes – so the contents can be read and altered. The user can subsequently write the register to restore the contents following an SPI read.
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2021-02-20T01:26:05 < zyp> hmm, I'd make the same assumption about read addr, that's how i2c works
2021-02-20T01:26:17 < mawk> so piecing information together I assume that the device is sampling the input/output pin when receiving a command, and at the same timing shifting out its old value on it
2021-02-20T01:26:32 < mawk> so what I thought I had to do is put my MOSI in high impedance mode
2021-02-20T01:26:44 < zyp> what?
2021-02-20T01:26:52 < mawk> maybe I did it wrong, I just called again HAL_GPIO_InitPin to put it in analog nopull mode
2021-02-20T01:26:53 < zyp> it can't both read and write at the same time on the same pin
2021-02-20T01:27:01 < mawk> why not?
2021-02-20T01:27:12 < mawk> if it uses 2 different pins tied together
2021-02-20T01:27:26 < mawk> at least that's the only possible way I see how this could work on the slave side
2021-02-20T01:28:15 < zyp> no, that makes no sense
2021-02-20T01:28:24 < zyp> hang on, gonna read more of the datasheet
2021-02-20T01:29:54 < zyp> ohh, I get it
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2021-02-20T01:33:46 < zyp> so each command has a variable number of bytes and each byte might be an input or output
2021-02-20T01:34:09 < zyp> e.g. if you want to read REV then you first write 0x70 and then you read one byte
2021-02-20T01:34:26 < zyp> if you want to get status, you write 0x71 and then read one byte
2021-02-20T01:34:54 < zyp> read OTP is 0xa2 followed by reading four bytes
2021-02-20T01:35:16 < zyp> which stm32 are you using?
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2021-02-20T01:38:59 < zyp> if it's got spiv1, you should set BIDIMODE=1 and toggle BIDIOE to switch between reads and writes
2021-02-20T01:39:56 < mawk> stm32l432kc
2021-02-20T01:40:02 < mawk> but there are registers that are both read and write zyp no?
2021-02-20T01:40:05 < zyp> oh, that'd be v2
2021-02-20T01:40:05 < mawk> how do I do for these
2021-02-20T01:40:08 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-20T01:40:12 < zyp> which?
2021-02-20T01:40:17 < mawk> I don't know actually
2021-02-20T01:40:20 < mawk> you may be right
2021-02-20T01:40:26 < mawk> but then, there's the comment I pasted
2021-02-20T01:40:32 < mawk> it makes no sense if there are no r/w registers
2021-02-20T01:40:37 < mawk> (4) Registers marked ‘W/R’ can be read, but the contents are written when the SPI command completes – so the contents can be read and altered. The user can subsequently write the register to restore the contents following an SPI read.
2021-02-20T01:41:11 < mawk> BIDIMODE thing is too weird for my case zyp it outputs the clock continuousy in read mode, and not just during sampling
2021-02-20T01:41:14 < mawk> and it confuses the slave
2021-02-20T01:41:27 < zyp> that's not right
2021-02-20T01:41:36 < mawk> so that's why I tried to do regular full-duplex and float MOSI
2021-02-20T01:41:43 < mawk> why? it's in the datasheet
2021-02-20T01:42:03 < zyp> no, I mean continous clock is not right, makes no sense
2021-02-20T01:42:09 < mawk> « The clock signal is generated continuously as long as the SPI is enabled. »
2021-02-20T01:42:17 < mawk> ^ in RX only mode
2021-02-20T01:42:25 < mawk> yeah it makes no sense, but it's what happens
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2021-02-20T01:42:47 < zyp> what's the rm number?
2021-02-20T01:42:54 < mawk> RM0394
2021-02-20T01:43:20 < mawk> zyp: https://serveur.io/dm00151940-stm32l41xxx42xxx43xxx44xxx45xxx46xxx-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-02-20T01:43:30 < zyp> already got it
2021-02-20T01:43:34 < mawk> page 1307
2021-02-20T01:43:36 < mawk> ah
2021-02-20T01:44:48 < zyp> I don't see anything talking about continously
2021-02-20T01:45:00 < mawk> well there's what I pasted
2021-02-20T01:45:12 < mawk> 00:42 <mawk> « The clock signal is generated continuously as long as the SPI is enabled. »
2021-02-20T01:45:35 < mawk> and it's what I observe with LA, when it's RXONLY mode then as soon as I do __HAL_SPI_ENABLE() then it outputs the clock
2021-02-20T01:46:06 < mawk> so I can just not enable the spi and try reading directly, and the clock won't be generated until it starts reading, so it works more or less
2021-02-20T01:46:22 < mawk> but then there's the clock that stays on after reading, but I want it to stop automatically
2021-02-20T01:46:35 < mawk> so I set the FIFO size to 8 bits so that it stops after 8 bits of reading, but I couldn't get it to work
2021-02-20T01:46:38 < zyp> I'm not talking about RXONLY=1
2021-02-20T01:46:38 < mawk> it was always 16 bits and not 8
2021-02-20T01:46:45 < zyp> that's not what you want
2021-02-20T01:47:04 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210220004702128.png
2021-02-20T01:47:17 < mawk> what then?
2021-02-20T01:47:28 < zyp> BIDIMODE=1
2021-02-20T01:48:38 < zyp> i.e. top half of that page, not bottom half
2021-02-20T01:48:58 < mawk> ah
2021-02-20T01:49:01 < mawk> yeah but it's the same problem
2021-02-20T01:49:07 < mawk> it does the same thing with the clock
2021-02-20T01:49:15 < mawk> they talk about it again page 1315
2021-02-20T01:49:35 < mawk> In receive-only modes, half-duplex (BIDIMODE=1, BIDIOE=0) or simplex (BIDIMODE=0, RXONLY=1) the master starts the sequence immediately when both SPI is enabled and receive-only mode is activated. The clock signal is provided by the master and it does not stop until either SPI or receive-only mode is disabled by the master. The master receives data frames continuously up to this moment. 
2021-02-20T01:50:20 < zyp> just keep it at BIDIOE=1 whenever you don't want to receive
2021-02-20T01:50:45 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-20T01:50:53 < mawk> but then it needs to be enabled/disabled with precise timing
2021-02-20T01:50:53 < zyp> i.e. write first byte, set BIDIOE=0, receive the number of shit you need, set BIDIOE=1
2021-02-20T01:51:06 < mawk> a few µs too late and it will have spare clock ticks around
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2021-02-20T01:51:13 < zyp> who cares?
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2021-02-20T01:51:32 < mawk> well then the slave will start shifting out data at the wrong time
2021-02-20T01:51:32 < zyp> reading and discarding an extra byte shouldn't be a problem
2021-02-20T01:51:40 < mawk> with a sound slave device yeah I guess
2021-02-20T01:52:14 < mawk> I tried already to do that also, it was working almost fine except it was reading twice the data needed, but I'll try again
2021-02-20T01:52:16 < mawk> thanks
2021-02-20T01:52:25 < mawk> but I still don't understand the comment they have about R/W registers
2021-02-20T01:52:33 < mawk> they say to write it back after reading
2021-02-20T01:52:41 < zyp> it also seems that it finishes the current byte before stopping
2021-02-20T01:52:48 < zyp> yeah, that sounds like bullshit
2021-02-20T01:53:17 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-20T01:53:26 < zyp> it'd make sense with separate miso/mosi, but you have them tied together so it'd read back whatever it's outputting
2021-02-20T01:53:49 < mawk> indeed
2021-02-20T01:54:06 < mawk> so let's try one more time bidirectional mode
2021-02-20T01:54:16 < mawk> and otherwise just write-only
2021-02-20T01:56:39 < zyp> actually the trick of tying MISO/MOSI together and just switching MOSI to hi-z when reading doesn't sound all that unreasonable
2021-02-20T01:57:13 < mawk> yeah that's the current state of the code
2021-02-20T01:57:14 < zyp> looking at it again, that's probably what I'd do
2021-02-20T01:57:44 < mawk> maybe I'm doing it wrong
2021-02-20T01:57:52 < mawk> to switch to HI-Z I just changed MODER register to analog, and that's it
2021-02-20T01:58:03 < zyp> and then what?
2021-02-20T01:58:12 < mawk> then MOSI should be hi-z
2021-02-20T01:58:15 < mawk> and I can receive
2021-02-20T01:58:21 < zyp> yeah?
2021-02-20T01:58:27 < zyp> and that's not working?
2021-02-20T01:58:29 < mawk> yeah that's the theory anyway
2021-02-20T01:58:40 < mawk> yeah I receive garbage-ish data with some phase
2021-02-20T01:58:48 < mawk> let me clean the code to eliminate issues and take LA shots
2021-02-20T01:58:54 < zyp> got a LA capture?
2021-02-20T01:59:05 < mawk> I switch to hi-z like this:   GPIOA->MODER &= ~GPIO_MODER_MODE7_Msk; GPIOA->MODER |=  (GPIO_MODE_AF_PP << GPIO_MODER_MODE7_Pos);
2021-02-20T01:59:08 < mawk> it's pin PA7
2021-02-20T01:59:15 < mawk> yes let me try to run it again
2021-02-20T01:59:54 < zyp> AF_PP is not hi-z :)
2021-02-20T02:00:15 < mawk> ah yes sorry that was the code to reset AF 
2021-02-20T02:00:24 < mawk> this rather: GPIOA->MODER &= ~GPIO_MODER_MODE7_Msk; GPIOA->MODER |=  (GPIO_MODE_ANALOG << GPIO_MODER_MODE7_Pos);
2021-02-20T02:00:39 < zyp> seems reasonable enough
2021-02-20T02:29:04 < mawk> so analog is fine? not input?
2021-02-20T02:45:44 < mawk> it seems the floating mode isn't taken into account
2021-02-20T02:46:10 < mawk> maybe MDOER isn't right
2021-02-20T02:46:16 < mawk> or HAL is doing magic
2021-02-20T02:52:40 < mawk> omg it's working
2021-02-20T02:52:42 < mawk> I can't believe it
2021-02-20T02:52:44 < mawk> thanks zyp 
2021-02-20T02:52:52 < mawk> for the datasheet reading
2021-02-20T02:53:14 < mawk> so final solution is: software-managed NSS, putting MOSI in Hi-Z when reading
2021-02-20T02:53:36 < mawk> hardware NSS could work though, it just needs NSSP mode to pulse NSS between reads and writes
2021-02-20T02:53:45 < mawk> let's try it
2021-02-20T02:55:17 < mawk> beautiful: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_2021022001551141.png
2021-02-20T02:55:20 < mawk> here is the fruit of your work
2021-02-20T02:55:58 < qyx> I said you hardware nss didn't work
2021-02-20T02:56:02 < qyx> *told
2021-02-20T02:56:24 < mawk> why?
2021-02-20T02:56:32 < mawk> it works more or less fine
2021-02-20T02:56:34 < mawk> especially with NSSP mode
2021-02-20T02:56:49 < qyx> it worked more or less for me too
2021-02-20T02:56:59 < qyx> then I decided it is not workth the hassle and managed it in software
2021-02-20T02:57:19 < mawk> with hardware nss: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210220015712806.png
2021-02-20T02:57:42 < mawk> pulse is slightly longer but that's about it
2021-02-20T02:57:53 < mawk> you had spi v2 too?
2021-02-20T02:58:03 < qyx> wat and wheres the difference
2021-02-20T02:58:09 < qyx> uhm
2021-02-20T02:58:11 < mawk> well both work
2021-02-20T02:58:28 < mawk> it's just that the NSSP pulse in the middle is slightly longer with hardware NSS, that's the only visible difference
2021-02-20T03:11:37 < mawk> ok hardware nss works perfectly now
2021-02-20T03:11:51 < mawk> maybe your issue was that the hw nss doesn't get desasserted if you haven't read your whole RX fifo qyx 
2021-02-20T03:11:57 < mawk> that may be one example 
2021-02-20T03:12:19 < mawk> in my case I had to do HAL_SPIEx_FlushRxFifo(&hspi1); to get NSS properly deasserted
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2021-02-20T04:20:22 < qyx> hm basically the new rtc in L4 can do everything I am using LPTIM for atm
2021-02-20T04:20:56 < qyx> programmable wakeup, subsecond counter at full 32768 and counting time/date using 1 Hz output
2021-02-20T04:21:03 < qyx> and even the calibration of some sort
2021-02-20T04:34:39 < mawk> until you find an irrecoverable flaw 3 days deep in the coding
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2021-02-20T04:56:28 < Laurenceb> qyx: cant F1 RTC do all that lol
2021-02-20T04:56:47 < Laurenceb> actually you cant access the raw timer value iirc
2021-02-20T04:57:13  * Laurenceb hates office365
2021-02-20T04:57:16 < Laurenceb> this is cancer
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2021-02-20T07:16:26 < aandrew> jadew: watched that .ro film you recommended
2021-02-20T07:16:36 < aandrew> my absolute favourite one was the first one with the merry go round
2021-02-20T07:17:21 < aandrew> the chicken one (the last one) I didn't get at all, the guy wanted to fuck the hotel owner is all I got out of it
2021-02-20T07:41:00 < jpa-> fenugrec: your IDE is too stupid then - e.g. visual studio code handles X-macros well and auto-complete knows about the generated enums
2021-02-20T07:58:11 < machinehum> Is making a consulting company a stupid idea?
2021-02-20T07:58:39 < machinehum> I feel like this place konws
2021-02-20T07:58:42 < machinehum> knows
2021-02-20T08:01:06 < jpa-> machinehum: it has worked for me
2021-02-20T08:02:10 < jpa-> i'd say: worth a try, but have a way out if it doesn't work out
2021-02-20T08:02:40 < machinehum> I think the one person consulting company is a good idea
2021-02-20T08:02:43 < machinehum> personally
2021-02-20T08:02:47 < machinehum> But I don't know
2021-02-20T08:03:51 < machinehum> I work as an FTE right now, i'm not allowed to work for another company
2021-02-20T08:04:42 < machinehum> Thinking about starting a "cash" only buisness
2021-02-20T08:04:54 < machinehum> To build a customer base
2021-02-20T08:05:14 < jpa-> pretty much the same as i have, then
2021-02-20T08:05:32 < jpa-> though i'm slowly trying to transition to making some products also, just to have some variety in work
2021-02-20T08:06:03 < machinehum> interesting
2021-02-20T08:06:24 < machinehum> You're skills?
2021-02-20T08:08:22 < jpa-> i am totally not skills
2021-02-20T08:08:34 < machinehum> lol
2021-02-20T08:09:00 < machinehum> What do people pay for for?
2021-02-20T08:09:19 < machinehum> butt pickin eh?
2021-02-20T08:13:16 < jpa-> pcb design, coding and debugging
2021-02-20T08:14:38 < machinehum> coool
2021-02-20T08:14:50 < machinehum> So the things I do
2021-02-20T08:15:20 < machinehum> There might be hope for me yet
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2021-02-20T09:09:41 < jpa-> MAX77976  looks like a fun chip - it can use same inductor for battery charging, and then for generating 5V or whatever from the battery during use
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2021-02-20T10:46:22 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, that was pretty good
2021-02-20T10:48:06 < jadew> the one with the hat I thought was hilarious
2021-02-20T10:56:45 < jadew> I think the one with the hat was more about the deals people were making and how they were taking advantage of the positions they were in
2021-02-20T10:59:42 < jadew> machinehum, I also do consultancy, but I haven't figured out how to get new clients yet
2021-02-20T11:00:20 < jadew> especially because Romanian clients can't pay my rates
2021-02-20T11:00:28 < jadew> if you figure that part out, let me know
2021-02-20T11:00:34 < jpa-> what's jadew's rates?
2021-02-20T11:01:38 < jadew> jpa-, $90/hr for random stuff - anytime, or $60/hr for random stuff on a recurring basis with $300/month service fee (1h of keeping up included)
2021-02-20T11:01:49 < jadew> this is for programming
2021-02-20T11:02:05 < jpa-> pretty much same as mine then
2021-02-20T11:02:35 < jadew> do you work with local clients?
2021-02-20T11:03:27 < jadew> the only clients I have are people I worked with in the past and they approached me
2021-02-20T11:05:11 < jpa-> most of my money still comes from a single client i've worked with for like 10 years now
2021-02-20T11:05:26 < jpa-> in various contexts even before i started my own consulting company
2021-02-20T11:05:27 < jadew> jpa-, similar situation here
2021-02-20T11:06:09 < jpa-> other than that, freelancer and upwork have yielded some good stuff, even though most of the listings are poorly defined and underpaid
2021-02-20T11:06:25 < jadew> I started putting business cards in the boxes of the products I make, but I can't put software developer on it, because I feel it's too disconnected from the products, so I only have "firmware development" mentioned there
2021-02-20T11:06:46 < jadew> I should give upwork another try
2021-02-20T11:07:43 < jpa-> https://rightpeoplegroup.com/become-a-right-people-group-consultant/it-contract-jobs-by-email/   i've also used this mailing list, it has had some interesting stuff but I haven't actually applied for any yet
2021-02-20T11:08:44 < jpa-> do you sell a lot of products? 10s or 100s per month?
2021-02-20T11:08:52 < jadew> jpa-, no
2021-02-20T11:09:07 < jadew> I don't think I had a month with 10 sales
2021-02-20T11:09:11 < jadew> more like 2...
2021-02-20T11:09:16 < jpa-> ok
2021-02-20T11:09:54 < jpa-> hopefully i'll have enough persistence to actually complete something this year.. too many unfinished product ideas already
2021-02-20T11:10:58 < jadew> yeah, I was and still am in the same situation
2021-02-20T11:11:09 < jadew> I did decide to stick to one project until it's finished tho
2021-02-20T11:12:04 < jpa-> i decided to start a bazillion projects in the hopes that i'll finish one or two ;)
2021-02-20T11:13:07 < jadew> the problem with having many projects started is that you can easily find excuses to not work on the boring parts of one project, by finding something to do on another
2021-02-20T11:13:16 < jpa-> yes
2021-02-20T11:13:28 < jadew> after you finish all the interesting bits, you're left with the grunt work for getting it done
2021-02-20T11:14:00 < jpa-> though in the past my main issue has been partial burnout due to other things, then just have to drop everything non-essential to get over it, and i never end up picking up old projects
2021-02-20T11:17:10 < jadew> you'd probably be rich if you finished them :)
2021-02-20T11:18:16 < jpa-> not really, i'm really bad at commercializing stuff
2021-02-20T11:18:34 < jpa-> but atleast i'd feel more worthwhile
2021-02-20T11:19:19 < jpa-> consulting jobs give me just money & stress, no sense of actually achieving anything worth doing
2021-02-20T11:20:14 < jadew> I know exactly what you're saying
2021-02-20T11:20:22 < jadew> I feel the same way
2021-02-20T11:32:27 < jadew> lmfao, I'm watching a video about the evolution of stocks and the presenter was talking about 1900 when "elon musk has not invented the electric car, the train or even the tunnel"
2021-02-20T11:34:26 < jadew> he takes a jab at Musk from time to time, in another video he was talking about the 90's, when "he had a full head of hair, and Musk didn't"
2021-02-20T11:51:58 < Steffanx> More like giving him more and more attention than he needs
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2021-02-20T14:42:17 < fenugrec> jpa-, correct, my IDE (stcube) is dumb. Unless there's a way to get it to correctly parse x-macros ... doubtful. It can't even make the difference between jumping to a func declaration and its definition.
2021-02-20T14:56:02 < Steffanx> lies.
2021-02-20T15:02:39 < fenugrec> I would love to be proven wrong
2021-02-20T15:03:51 < mawk> I had the same problem fenugrec 
2021-02-20T15:03:59 < mawk> issues with macros in eclipse/cubeide
2021-02-20T15:04:13 < fenugrec> mawk, how did you solve it ?
2021-02-20T15:04:20 < mawk> I ended up disabling code check for the offending file
2021-02-20T15:04:21 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T15:04:25 < fenugrec> nice
2021-02-20T15:04:32 < fenugrec> I expected " stopped using cubide"
2021-02-20T15:04:48 < mawk> because there's not even an inline comment you can put to disable code check for a given variable
2021-02-20T15:04:52 < mawk> ah hm
2021-02-20T15:04:57 < mawk> no I think I did something else
2021-02-20T15:05:09 < mawk> you can make a fake macro just for the eclipse syntax checker
2021-02-20T15:05:16 < mawk> #ifdef __eclipse__ or something
2021-02-20T15:05:30 < mawk> and then you can mock your macro
2021-02-20T15:05:42 < mawk> like #def stuff(...) ({})
2021-02-20T15:05:47 < mawk> and that shuts up eclipse
2021-02-20T15:06:38 < fenugrec> hmm, not quite what I need then
2021-02-20T15:07:58 < mawk> you can also try refactoring the macro or something, if it's simple enough then eclipse is able to decode it
2021-02-20T15:08:06 < mawk> but that may not be always possible
2021-02-20T15:08:22 < mawk> but yeah for the next projects I just abandoned eclipse/cubeide
2021-02-20T15:08:26 < mawk> back to emacs
2021-02-20T15:08:37 < mawk> with no syntax check or bs like that
2021-02-20T15:08:47 < mawk> just a nice text editor that always works
2021-02-20T15:08:48 < Steffanx> this has nothing to do with syntax checks.
2021-02-20T15:09:08 < mawk> I said "or bs like that"
2021-02-20T15:09:08 < Steffanx> its the code completion that doesnt work properly in his situation.
2021-02-20T15:09:28 < mawk> not only
2021-02-20T15:09:51 < fenugrec> ^ code completion was the main issue yes. "Not jumping to a func decl" was bonus complaining
2021-02-20T15:09:58 < mawk> eclipse's handling of macros is broken on many levels
2021-02-20T15:10:06 < mawk> now you're lucky that it doesn't show errors
2021-02-20T15:10:13 < Steffanx> Yes and that issue is probably not even closely related to your X macro magic
2021-02-20T15:10:17 < mawk> and it's just convenience feature that doesn't work
2021-02-20T15:10:29 < mawk> I think it is Steffanx 
2021-02-20T15:10:36 < mawk> eclipse always had trouble with macros
2021-02-20T15:10:48 < mawk> especially x macros with code substitution like that
2021-02-20T15:11:44 < jpa-> fenugrec: try Project -> Properties -> C/C++ Build -> Settings -> GCC C++ Compiler and verify that it has path to your arm g++
2021-02-20T15:11:54 < Steffanx> but eclipse is not great with the declaration/definition jumping ever. Like the only option is "Jump to declaration"(often F3) and that function just makes you jump around between the declaration and definition (if any).
2021-02-20T15:11:55 < mawk> if you copy pasted manually a few invocations of the x macro, problem would probably vanish
2021-02-20T15:12:18 < Steffanx> F3 when using Windows and when you didnt change the shortcuts.
2021-02-20T15:12:37 < jpa-> and in C++ General -> Preprocessor Include -> Providers verify    that    CDT GCC Build-in Compiler    has highest priority 
2021-02-20T15:13:48 < mawk> look Steffanx it's working https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210220033552973.png
2021-02-20T15:14:05 < mawk> 0x71 is command, 0x15 is answer
2021-02-20T15:14:13 < Steffanx> I can only confirm it does something, not if its working or not.
2021-02-20T15:14:35 < mawk> yes it's working
2021-02-20T15:14:39 < mawk> it gives an answer
2021-02-20T15:14:45 < mawk> which isn't random noise
2021-02-20T15:14:56 < fenugrec> jpa-, seems you need to do that per-configuration ? "This tab isn't supported in multi-configuration mode"
2021-02-20T15:15:11 < jpa-> maybe
2021-02-20T15:15:48 < Steffanx> mawk: My HID descriptor works too, finally. Im not sure what i did when i wrote that like 2 years ago... it was full with stupid errors -_-
2021-02-20T15:16:06 < mawk> you became smarter
2021-02-20T15:16:14 < mawk> or maybe you were very distracted
2021-02-20T15:16:15 < Steffanx> lol no.
2021-02-20T15:16:18 < mawk> were you in love?
2021-02-20T15:16:20 < Steffanx> maybe that
2021-02-20T15:16:26 < Steffanx> drugs maybe
2021-02-20T15:16:34  * mawk doubts
2021-02-20T15:17:43 < Steffanx> Ok, it worked all the time, but the data send by the tools where gibberish. But when you set the physical min and max to the same value.. what do you really expect to receive :D
2021-02-20T15:17:44 < fenugrec> jpa-, in any case, seems to work, thanks
2021-02-20T15:18:01 < Steffanx> And the example in the usb hid pid docs is incorrect/non-functional... and i "copied" that -_-
2021-02-20T15:18:08 < mawk> nice
2021-02-20T15:18:10 < fenugrec> F3 to jump to decl is still dumb but that's a different can of wurms
2021-02-20T15:18:27 < Steffanx> Just use it twice :D
2021-02-20T15:19:49 < fenugrec> acceptable workaround
2021-02-20T15:20:37 < fenugrec> ok, while I have you eclipse pros : what about showing the doxyblock in the tooltip on a highlighted func ? current behavior shows the sourcecode of the highlighted func
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2021-02-20T15:25:09 < BrainDamage> unrelated, but scaringly accurate: https://imgur.com/a/L2Ivo7B
2021-02-20T15:26:20 < Steffanx> 7/11 parking lot.. that thingy must have been written by stvn
2021-02-20T15:27:19 < Steffanx> How far on a scale between ironically and unironcally are you, BrainDamage ?
2021-02-20T15:27:46 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-02-20T15:27:56 < Steffanx> i think i googled that once, years ago and never found something that worked, fenugrec 
2021-02-20T15:28:04 < Steffanx> and my googling just now gives me pretty much the same answer
2021-02-20T15:28:10 < fenugrec> same here
2021-02-20T15:28:25 < Steffanx> Except for people asking for this for over 10 years now
2021-02-20T15:28:41 < Steffanx> *only people asking
2021-02-20T15:29:34 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2021-02-20T15:30:30 < BrainDamage> we all know who I am linking that for
2021-02-20T15:31:52 < Steffanx> Nah, im actually not sure. One might be pretty close to unironically and the other might be in the middle. 
2021-02-20T15:32:18 < BrainDamage> see, you nailed both
2021-02-20T15:35:12 < Steffanx> :O
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2021-02-20T16:52:59 < Laurenceb> reeee
2021-02-20T16:53:02 < Laurenceb> fuck office 365
2021-02-20T16:53:13 < Steffanx> why mr Laurenceb ?
2021-02-20T16:53:27 < Laurenceb> javashit cancer
2021-02-20T16:53:43 < Laurenceb> used to create a million non version controlled incoherent documents
2021-02-20T16:55:02 < Steffanx> sure if office 365 is too blame and not you guys using a system its not really meant for?
2021-02-20T16:55:14 < Laurenceb> >you guys
2021-02-20T16:55:24 < Laurenceb> the loons I work with, not me
2021-02-20T16:56:21 < Steffanx> youre part of the gang
2021-02-20T16:57:12 < Steffanx> because if its sharepoint and shit .. doesnt that come with version/document history?
2021-02-20T17:05:08 < Steffanx> but then again. There is a huge difference between what you say and what you mean, so i think you love javascript.
2021-02-20T17:13:00 < mawk> do you have some feet for me BrainDamage ?
2021-02-20T17:13:08 < mawk> I'll take a pack of 12
2021-02-20T17:14:03 < Steffanx> We live in the metric world mawk . damnit.
2021-02-20T17:16:45 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T17:21:27 < BrainDamage> if the meter is so weird, why are all measurement instruments suffixed with -meter? checkmate 'muricans
2021-02-20T17:21:48 < Laurenceb> loll
2021-02-20T17:27:59 < Steffanx> haha
2021-02-20T17:29:08 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip72-217-88-4.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-20T17:32:57 < mawk> I am replacing the ziggo router with a raspberry pi Steffanx 
2021-02-20T17:32:59 < mawk> are you happy?
2021-02-20T17:33:07 < Steffanx> i dont care.
2021-02-20T17:33:09 < mawk> :(
2021-02-20T17:33:16 < mawk> I bought a managed switch to make vlan magic
2021-02-20T17:33:21 < mawk> since the pi has only 1 ethernet port
2021-02-20T17:33:40 < Steffanx> did you call them to set your router/modem into brigde mode yet?
2021-02-20T17:33:47 < mawk> no I'm doing it right now
2021-02-20T17:33:51 < mawk> I needed to set up the switch before
2021-02-20T17:34:16 < mawk> I bought a GS105Ev2 for 25€ on amazon
2021-02-20T17:34:24 < mawk> it can do 802.1Q VLANs
2021-02-20T17:35:53 < Steffanx> ok
2021-02-20T17:37:29 < Steffanx> sounds like something you really need? :P
2021-02-20T17:38:51 < mawk> yes
2021-02-20T17:38:53 < mawk> it's needed
2021-02-20T17:38:57 < mawk> because the rpi has only 1 ethernet port
2021-02-20T17:39:09 < mawk> so to separate the bridged LAN and the actual LAN I need to make vlans
2021-02-20T17:40:59 < mawk> the live chat is working on saturdays
2021-02-20T17:41:03 < mawk> but there is this stupid chatbot
2021-02-20T17:41:14 < mawk> you have to ask 3 questions it cannot understand and then it will propose to talk to a human
2021-02-20T17:44:55 < Steffanx> oh i forgot the rpi has only one port. -_-
2021-02-20T17:45:00 < Steffanx> why bother using a rpi :D
2021-02-20T17:47:36 < BrainDamage> the performance is going to be crap
2021-02-20T17:48:00 < BrainDamage> usually the hw devices do routing/switching in hw, and the cpu is just an high level controller
2021-02-20T17:48:21 < BrainDamage> you'd be much better getting a router that you can flash openwrt
2021-02-20T17:49:56 < mawk> I don't have gigabit BrainDamage 
2021-02-20T17:51:12 < mawk> but I can always substitute later
2021-02-20T17:51:59 < BrainDamage> my isp has published the flowchart of the automated phone machine
2021-02-20T17:52:09 < BrainDamage> so you know already if you get to talk to a human or not
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2021-02-20T17:59:12 < Steffanx> phone bots are the worst ever.
2021-02-20T17:59:24 < Steffanx> Like the Dell one i had to call once. it would stop talking if i talked.
2021-02-20T18:00:01 < Steffanx> while listening to bot i talked to my colleague and it started alllll over.
2021-02-20T18:00:08 < Steffanx> to the bot*
2021-02-20T18:02:00 < Laurenceb> 500k dead muricans
2021-02-20T18:02:17 < Laurenceb>  *Taliban cheering*
2021-02-20T18:34:45 < PaulFertser> btw, some realtek switches are now available which run OpenWrt upstream, and the community support and interest in those is pretty strong. See https://biot.com/switches/start
2021-02-20T18:34:48 -!- LikWidChz [~LikWidChz@212.102.47.84] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-20T18:36:06 < PaulFertser> In this case mawk is going to do switching in hardware, but routing would be up to the kernel, yes, but so is firewalling.
2021-02-20T18:37:39 < PaulFertser> With regular soho devices you configure internal switch right there from within the system, in mawk's case it'd be more problematic but the result is essentially the same.
2021-02-20T18:38:25 -!- LikWidChzz [~LikWidChz@212.102.47.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-02-20T18:38:27 < PaulFertser> mt762x SoC support hardware flow offloading, yes, it helps with NAT or just connection tracking firewalling. But no other supported systems have anything like that implemented.
2021-02-20T18:40:37 < effractur> some switchonf stuff was merged indeed for them
2021-02-20T18:40:48 < effractur> but mostly its now marvell an mellanox that has sensible support
2021-02-20T18:41:40 < effractur> ee switchdev*
2021-02-20T18:42:46 < PaulFertser> effractur: please clarify
2021-02-20T18:43:17 < effractur> switch dev is the kernel subsystem for hardware ofloadding of network switches
2021-02-20T18:43:20 < effractur> and routers
2021-02-20T18:43:22 < PaulFertser> effractur: I see everybody's buying realtek now, and there seems to be no alternative if one wants to run upstream Linux.
2021-02-20T18:43:38 < effractur> depends on your requirements
2021-02-20T18:43:47 < PaulFertser> OpenWrt or die
2021-02-20T18:43:50 < effractur> any switch from mellanox should also work fine but that is more datacenter stuff not home bla
2021-02-20T18:44:53 < mawk> that's it it's in bridge mode
2021-02-20T18:45:28 < effractur> and some LPC stuff has support for it afaik
2021-02-20T18:45:33 < effractur> e NXP*
2021-02-20T18:45:58 < effractur> the NXP Layerscape bases siwtchesd
2021-02-20T18:47:49 < englishman> lol Steffanx 
2021-02-20T18:47:58 < englishman> in the gamestonk hearing last week
2021-02-20T18:48:20 < englishman> the owner of this trading company testified "we have service agents standing by to help our clients at all times"
2021-02-20T18:48:30 < englishman> so one of the senators or whatever calls this helpline during the hearings
2021-02-20T18:48:42 < englishman> and just gets kept on hold the whole rest of the hearing
2021-02-20T18:48:49 < englishman> while the owner is being questioned about it
2021-02-20T18:54:42 < R2COM> should i buy ryzen 3970x 32 core threadripper
2021-02-20T18:55:52 < R2COM> wait wat
2021-02-20T18:56:03 < R2COM> its price was $2k like 2 days ago now its $2.6k ???
2021-02-20T18:56:09 < R2COM> are those people retarded or what?
2021-02-20T18:56:44 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@aftr-62-216-202-86.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-20T18:59:04 < R2COM> hm
2021-02-20T19:06:13 < englishman> buttcoin
2021-02-20T19:07:31 < mawk> that's it I am bridged
2021-02-20T19:07:38 < mawk> but I lost muh ipv6
2021-02-20T19:07:50 < mawk> too bad
2021-02-20T19:11:18 < Laurenceb> lol hyperloop guys have a email server they seem to have forgotten about
2021-02-20T19:11:32 < Laurenceb> I can connect to it but its not got my emailz on it
2021-02-20T19:11:57 < Laurenceb> looks like the pre office 365 server they forgot to turn off lmao
2021-02-20T19:12:47  * Laurenceb wonders if he should passive agressively use the old server to send work emails
2021-02-20T19:14:37 < Steffanx> Yes.
2021-02-20T19:35:35 < mawk> my vlan config works perfectly
2021-02-20T19:35:46 < mawk> except that I forgot to  plug in the cable so I was wondering what I did wrong for an hour
2021-02-20T19:36:51 < mawk> still no ipv6 though
2021-02-20T19:42:31 < Steffanx> Who needs ipv6
2021-02-20T19:42:34 < mawk> me
2021-02-20T19:42:38 < mawk> I'm a modern man
2021-02-20T19:42:48 < mawk> anyway I will use my wireguard tunnel to get (french) ipv6
2021-02-20T19:51:08 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@aftr-62-216-202-86.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2021-02-20T20:03:45 < Steffanx> modern man, using emacs.. yeah sure mawk  :P
2021-02-20T20:05:41 < mawk> :(
2021-02-20T20:07:26 < Steffanx> lol
2021-02-20T20:07:44 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41971.msg2193948#msg2193948
2021-02-20T20:07:51 < Laurenceb> >the details are not important
2021-02-20T20:08:15 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-20T20:08:39 < Laurenceb> >the force of Archimedes
2021-02-20T20:08:44 < disruptivenl> Hi. Does someone know how I could replace a LS7366R? A quadrature decoder? Could I use an 32-bit STM32
2021-02-20T20:08:45 < disruptivenl> ?
2021-02-20T20:08:59 < Laurenceb> probably
2021-02-20T20:09:17 < Steffanx> very likely disruptivenl 
2021-02-20T20:09:49 < Steffanx> Just lookup a stm32 with quadrature encoder support..
2021-02-20T20:10:52 < disruptivenl> The LS7366R seems fast and solid. I was thinking of the STM32L432KC
2021-02-20T20:11:08 < disruptivenl> The LS7366R is old and hard to get
2021-02-20T20:11:58 < Steffanx> you can probably even implement the same register set + spi interface
2021-02-20T20:13:06 < Steffanx> if you want to replace the chip itself and keep the other part of the system the same, you can probably find something cheaper
2021-02-20T20:13:17 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50041.100
2021-02-20T20:13:20 < Laurenceb> kekk wut
2021-02-20T20:13:37 < Steffanx> id be surprised of something like a G0 or F0 or wahtever does not have this feature (but ,.. im not sure)
2021-02-20T20:15:18 < disruptivenl> quadrature(incremental) encoder input on the Nucleo-STM32f401RE.... my encoder is a Honeywell http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2329419.pdf
2021-02-20T20:16:32 < Steffanx> dont see why it sohuldnt work.. better get it running :)
2021-02-20T20:16:44 < disruptivenl> hehe I will try
2021-02-20T20:18:51 < Steffanx> unless the f401 doesnt have the qei interface :)
2021-02-20T20:19:15 < disruptivenl> I am looking the MCU finder right now
2021-02-20T20:19:18 < disruptivenl> Timer 32-bit
2021-02-20T20:19:34 < mawk> dhcp server is working now: 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=118 time=27.8 ms
2021-02-20T20:19:37 < mawk> I am network pro
2021-02-20T20:19:40 < mawk> I should get paid for that
2021-02-20T20:20:40 < effractur> and howlong did you take that
2021-02-20T20:21:27 < mawk> not very long
2021-02-20T20:21:30 < disruptivenl> STM32L432KC-> It has independent DMA request generation and support quadrature encoder.
2021-02-20T20:21:31 < mawk> since I ran into no problems
2021-02-20T20:21:44 < disruptivenl> TIm2
2021-02-20T20:21:55 < mawk> the ziggo router is connected with 100Mbps line only though
2021-02-20T20:21:59 < mawk> I think I pay for more than that
2021-02-20T20:23:48 < mawk> autoneg yields only 100M
2021-02-20T20:23:51 < mawk> lame
2021-02-20T20:24:04 < disruptivenl> Do I need some other "electronics to connect it do you think?
2021-02-20T20:25:36 < Steffanx> depends on the voltages ofcourse
2021-02-20T20:25:43 < Steffanx> and how clean the signal is
2021-02-20T20:26:17 < effractur> mawk: connected to what?
2021-02-20T20:26:26 < mawk> to a switch
2021-02-20T20:26:32 < effractur> could be shitty switch or shitty cable
2021-02-20T20:26:42 < mawk> the switch has 1000M with all other devices connected to it
2021-02-20T20:26:46 < mawk> maybe the cable yes good idea
2021-02-20T20:27:14 < disruptivenl> Supply voltage 4.5 V to 26 V. So 4.5 should do the trick I think.. and how clean I do not know. I will look at some schematics with these kind of encoders. I want the encoder to talk rpm and direction and port it to spi and/or CAN
2021-02-20T20:28:35 < Steffanx> 4.5V -> 3.3V inputs (probably 5V tolerant, but ... that has its quirks)
2021-02-20T20:29:46 < disruptivenl> oke I will convert it.
2021-02-20T20:30:29 < mawk> which quirks Steffanx ?
2021-02-20T20:31:27 < Steffanx> that your target has to be powered for example.
2021-02-20T20:31:57 < Steffanx> maybe an obvious quirk but :_P
2021-02-20T20:35:18 < Steffanx> maybe you want to protect the inputs anyway
2021-02-20T20:42:34 < mawk> now I have to configure hostapd to make a wifi network and that's it
2021-02-20T20:42:37 < mawk> I have my router
2021-02-20T20:43:29 < Laurenceb> >hyperloop want to use TMS320
2021-02-20T20:43:30 < Laurenceb> reee
2021-02-20T20:43:50 < mawk> you don't like it?
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2021-02-20T20:46:22 < Steffanx> what series Laurenceb ?
2021-02-20T20:46:33 < Laurenceb> Delphino
2021-02-20T20:46:38 < Laurenceb> just use arm already
2021-02-20T20:47:57 -!- elektrinis [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-02-20T20:48:27 < Steffanx> but we have experience with it, Laurenceb ?
2021-02-20T21:04:06 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-02-20T21:11:49 < mawk> my head hurts
2021-02-20T21:11:53 < mawk> I think it's caffeine withdrawal
2021-02-20T21:12:02 < mawk> maybe I shouldn't drink 1.5L of MONSTER ENERGY™ a day
2021-02-20T21:12:19 < aandrew> jadew: I didn't get that from the hat. the hat one (the tale of the party photograper I think it was called) to me was all about how the higher-ups make a bad situation and it's still the little guy who warned them who get in shit for it
2021-02-20T21:13:09 < BrainDamage> it's ~2 days or physical withrawal of caffeine
2021-02-20T21:13:23 < aandrew> jadew: I fucking busted a gut when they're like "where's $dude?" "right here! (on the ride too)" "why are you on the ride?!" "you said everybody must get on" 
2021-02-20T21:13:26 < aandrew> fucking LOL
2021-02-20T21:13:41 < aandrew> and then the last few seconds "and the motorcade came by anyway"
2021-02-20T21:13:57 < aandrew> the sheep farmers "look at them, staying up all night partying and leaving us to work all night."
2021-02-20T21:21:30 < fenugrec> disruptivenl, almost soudns like a project for some CPLD/fpga
2021-02-20T21:36:49 < Laurenceb> >Monster energy
2021-02-20T21:36:53 < Laurenceb> that stuff is vile
2021-02-20T21:37:12 < Laurenceb> tastes okish when its cold then it warms up and its horrible oversweet sugar water
2021-02-20T21:37:18 < englishman> mawk definitely going to have a bunch of heart problems at 30yo
2021-02-20T21:37:30 < mawk> 5 years to go
2021-02-20T21:37:38 < mawk> better enjoy it now then'
2021-02-20T21:37:40 < mawk> ?*
2021-02-20T21:38:23 < mawk> you can spot dutch spies because they all say "oke"
2021-02-20T21:38:26 < mawk> like disruptivenl 
2021-02-20T21:38:37 < mawk> but the nl in the nick was already quite a giveaway
2021-02-20T21:38:53 < Laurenceb> mawk is too young
2021-02-20T21:38:58 < Laurenceb> gunna get groomed
2021-02-20T21:39:06 < mawk> aren't you same age as me or something
2021-02-20T21:39:09 < mawk> you look mega young
2021-02-20T21:39:17 < mawk> or maybe the video was very old
2021-02-20T21:39:24 < mawk> balloon thing conference
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2021-02-20T21:40:22 < Laurenceb> lol I just look very young
2021-02-20T21:40:31 < Laurenceb> inb4 nonced by homos
2021-02-20T21:40:47 < Laurenceb> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/GfbgeqddcO.jpeg
2021-02-20T21:41:49 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T21:41:56 < mawk> so how old are you Laurenceb 
2021-02-20T21:42:02 < englishman> Laurenceb's aging has been disproportionally mental
2021-02-20T21:42:07 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T21:42:11 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-20T21:42:13 < englishman> so while he has the body of a 12 year old, he has the mind of joe biden
2021-02-20T21:42:33 < Laurenceb> I'm old enough to be a wizard
2021-02-20T21:42:42 < mawk> so above 35?
2021-02-20T21:42:51 < mawk> I don't remember the 4chan wizard topology
2021-02-20T21:42:56 < Laurenceb> no
2021-02-20T21:42:59 < mawk> maybe 35 is black wizard
2021-02-20T21:43:05 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-20T21:43:21 < mawk> you get to that level by staying a virgin until that age
2021-02-20T21:43:41 < Laurenceb> https://virgin-vs-chad.fandom.com/wiki/Wizard
2021-02-20T21:44:52 < Laurenceb> >A Wizard is much worse than a Virgin, even worse than an Incel or Neckbeard.
2021-02-20T21:45:34 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T21:47:12 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/o0rqly.jpeg
2021-02-20T21:53:28 < bitmask> eww
2021-02-20T21:53:35 < mawk> two cops came to verify I wasn't drinking alcohol Steffanx 
2021-02-20T21:53:48 < mawk> I'm drinking a Monster
2021-02-20T21:53:50 < mawk> lol
2021-02-20T21:54:55 < bitmask> why is vacuum shit so expensive
2021-02-20T21:55:30 < bitmask> just spent $120 on a used vacuum pirani gauge from 2007, new they are like 500
2021-02-20T21:55:50 < bitmask> its just a heating element and a thermocouple
2021-02-20T21:57:02 < bitmask> and that doesnt even display the value, you need to spend hundreds more for the analog or digital gauge display, luckily you can just make your own for like $5 by reading the thermocouple voltage and converting based on a chart
2021-02-20T22:00:31 < Steffanx> Oh drinking outside mawk?
2021-02-20T22:00:36 < Steffanx> Sure it were cops?
2021-02-20T22:00:56 < mawk> guys in blue on a bike
2021-02-20T22:01:01 < mawk> with a official looking jacket
2021-02-20T22:01:10 < mawk> maybe city helper guys
2021-02-20T22:01:14 < mawk> yeah outside
2021-02-20T22:01:20 < mawk> enjoying the warmth
2021-02-20T22:04:52 < jpa-> bitmask: because specialized stuff costs more to sell, as fewer people buy it
2021-02-20T22:07:25 < Steffanx> BOAs are like wannabee cops, mawk 
2021-02-20T22:07:44 < BrainDamage> vacuumm stuff is still used somewat commercially
2021-02-20T22:07:44 < mawk> boa constrictors?
2021-02-20T22:07:57 < BrainDamage> eg AC technicians
2021-02-20T22:08:02 < Steffanx> Can you imagine the forecast says itll be 18 C wednesday, mawk ?
2021-02-20T22:08:12 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-20T22:14:52 < bitmask> yeaaa
2021-02-20T22:23:22 < qyx> so most of the uses of the STM32 RTC requires at least 2 rtc clock pulses to syncrhonize
2021-02-20T22:23:34 < qyx> lptim apparetntly doesn't require any
2021-02-20T22:24:21 < jpa-> but IIRC lptim requires double-read?
2021-02-20T22:27:35 < qyx> The RTC registers are 32-bit registers. The APB interface introduces 2 wait-states in RTC
2021-02-20T22:27:38 < qyx> register accesses except on read accesses to calendar shadow registers when BYPSHAD
2021-02-20T22:27:41 < qyx> = 0.
2021-02-20T22:27:47 < bitmask> what is a good ADC IC?
2021-02-20T22:27:47 < qyx> wait what, so 2 apb clock cycles?
2021-02-20T22:30:42 < qyx> probably LPTIM is better suited for tickless rtos
2021-02-20T22:30:48 < qyx> and RTC for uh, RTCing
2021-02-20T22:32:22 < jpa-> bitmask: ADS1115 is pretty good for random low-speed stuff
2021-02-20T22:32:34 < bitmask> k thanks
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2021-02-20T22:36:28 < Steffanx> Doesnt your arduino have analog in bitmask ?
2021-02-20T22:36:48 < bitmask> funny you
2021-02-20T22:37:04 < bitmask> I'm looking for a high quality one, are the internal ones good?
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2021-02-20T22:37:17 < bitmask> for either stm32 or arduino
2021-02-20T22:37:35 < mawk> probably good enough
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2021-02-20T22:37:58 < Steffanx> lol it was kinda a question to know why you wanted an external one bitmask. 
2021-02-20T22:38:25 < Steffanx> Since good and quality are not exactly great requirements ;)
2021-02-20T22:38:47 < bitmask> yea, im not sure yet how precise i need it
2021-02-20T22:39:02 < bitmask> I know im gonna need a voltage divider since the output is 0-10v
2021-02-20T22:39:25 < Steffanx> or get an ADC that accepts that :)
2021-02-20T22:39:32 < bitmask> or that
2021-02-20T22:39:42 < mawk> with voltage divider I suppose you need precisely matched resistors
2021-02-20T22:39:48 < bitmask> ive never looked for adc ICs, any suggestions where to start
2021-02-20T22:39:51 < mawk> that won't noise up
2021-02-20T22:40:07 < bitmask> i would prefer not to have to divide
2021-02-20T22:40:23 < qyx> no suggestions, because we don't know what are you measuring
2021-02-20T22:40:39 < bitmask> a thermocouple which equates to vacuum level
2021-02-20T22:40:55 < qyx> so get ADC fir thermocouple frontend
2021-02-20T22:40:59 < bitmask> but it must have a voltage multiplier in it since its 0-10v
2021-02-20T22:41:01 < qyx> s/fir/with
2021-02-20T22:41:14 < bitmask> or some conversion
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2021-02-20T22:41:52 < qyx> do you need cold junction compensation?
2021-02-20T22:42:05 < qyx> there are ADCs for that
2021-02-20T22:42:13 < bitmask> its just 0-10V
2021-02-20T22:42:24 < bitmask> i dont know whats between the thermocouple and output
2021-02-20T22:42:54 < qyx> oh then a voltage divider with standard 1% resistors
2021-02-20T22:42:57 < qyx> and stm32 ADC
2021-02-20T22:43:02 < qyx> oversample a bit
2021-02-20T22:43:09 < bitmask> ok i guess I'll start there
2021-02-20T22:43:09 < qyx> and you are done because yolo
2021-02-20T22:43:54 < bitmask> I would prefer an IC able to just do the 0-10v so I dont need to account for resistor inconsistencies 
2021-02-20T22:44:07 < qyx> I wouldn't expect the thermocouple with integrated electronics to be more precise than that
2021-02-20T22:44:41 < qyx> buy a dedicated divider then
2021-02-20T22:44:57 < bitmask> I think the gauge is only like 10% accuracy anyway which is fine
2021-02-20T22:45:10 < mawk> feed 10V to VDDA
2021-02-20T22:45:14 < mawk> would that work?
2021-02-20T22:45:31 < bitmask> hmm, didnt think it could go that high
2021-02-20T22:45:36 < bitmask> havent looked though
2021-02-20T22:45:37 < mawk> if it's 10% accuracy then not care about resistpr tolerances of your divider
2021-02-20T22:46:04 < bitmask> i did buy a new multimeter so hopefully I can measure the resistor fairly well :P
2021-02-20T23:00:04 < Steffanx> received it yet bitmask ?
2021-02-20T23:00:15 < bitmask> monday
2021-02-20T23:00:18 < bitmask> not yet
2021-02-20T23:02:49 < Laurenceb> ><mawk> feed 10V to VDDA
2021-02-20T23:02:52 < Laurenceb> keeek nice troll
2021-02-20T23:03:11 < Laurenceb> AD thermocouple ics are stupidly expensive
2021-02-20T23:12:42 < Laurenceb> you could get goodish results using an opamp and stm32 built in temp sensor I bet
2021-02-20T23:50:34 < Mangy_Dog> fek fek fek fek fek fek fek fek PC13 14 15 on f103 are not 5v tollorant :/
2021-02-20T23:51:47 < Mangy_Dog> the magnets ive used for the tricorder arent strong enough for the reed switches to trigger
2021-02-20T23:51:56 < Mangy_Dog> but a hall effect sensor can read them
2021-02-20T23:51:59 < Mangy_Dog> but the hall needs 5v
2021-02-20T23:52:32 < Mangy_Dog> i dont want to HAVE to do a logic level transistor..
2021-02-20T23:52:43 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-02-20T23:52:45 < Mangy_Dog> 5-3v
2021-02-20T23:54:00 < englishman> those pins have quite a few limitations
2021-02-20T23:54:45 < Mangy_Dog> yeah its why i used them for the reed switch with a 3v pullup on the other side
--- Day changed Sun Feb 21 2021
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2021-02-21T00:02:28 < Laurenceb> >5v tolerant
2021-02-21T00:02:34 < Laurenceb> lulwut are you even doing
2021-02-21T00:02:50 < Laurenceb> >tricorder
2021-02-21T00:03:06 < Laurenceb> sounds like something a hyperloop guy would come up with
2021-02-21T00:12:29 < Mangy_Dog> not > 5v just 5v
2021-02-21T00:12:38 < Mangy_Dog> anyway ordered some hall effect sensors that are 3v
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2021-02-21T00:17:07 < mawk> my hostapd is working now
2021-02-21T00:18:18 < mawk> but it's 5Ghz only
2021-02-21T00:18:24 < mawk> and of course I have 2.4GHz devices
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2021-02-21T00:20:18 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-02-21T00:40:47 < qyx> RIP Steffanx 
2021-02-21T00:40:49 < qyx> https://twitter.com/breakingavnews?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1363175798438510603%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdennikn.sk%2F
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2021-02-21T01:08:36 < Steffanx> Yeah, that was fucked up qyx
2021-02-21T01:08:57 < Steffanx> But more like RIP t4nk_freenode . He probably lives much closer to that
2021-02-21T01:09:19 < t4nk_freenode> ... exactly what I was thinking ;)
2021-02-21T01:12:11 < t4nk_freenode> though having had a look at the map... I'm not that far down either
2021-02-21T01:12:32 < Steffanx> Yet probably 100 km more south
2021-02-21T01:12:34 < t4nk_freenode> luckily, because it is a known fact that that whole region is filled with idiots
2021-02-21T01:13:21 < Steffanx> Like everyone below the rivers
2021-02-21T01:13:39 < zyp> anybody wants some f4 boards with trace? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NV2ES.png
2021-02-21T01:14:04 < qyx> I told you do your own!
2021-02-21T01:14:13 < qyx> and zyp did that
2021-02-21T01:14:30 < t4nk_freenode> you just won't stop until you got me insulted ey, YOU FARMER BOY!
2021-02-21T01:14:33 < zyp> about to send it off to try jlcpcb assembly, looks like they'll be somewhere between $10-15/ea assembled with f427vi
2021-02-21T01:15:46 < fenugrec> how is that possible, the f427 is like 12$
2021-02-21T01:15:57 < qyx> oh let me know when they arrive, I am curious what the result is
2021-02-21T01:16:17 < zyp> no, it's $6.5
2021-02-21T01:16:45 < qyx> lcsc prices?
2021-02-21T01:16:49 < fenugrec> where ? https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F427VIT6_C57097.html
2021-02-21T01:16:53 < Steffanx> Traces as in... swo etm and.. whatever?
2021-02-21T01:17:07 < zyp> trace as in parallel trace
2021-02-21T01:17:42 < t4nk_freenode> darnit, I aint having much luck with swo on a blue pill :|
2021-02-21T01:17:44 < fenugrec> ~ 20$ from DK and the regular crooks
2021-02-21T01:18:01 < zyp> fenugrec, https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uypBv.png
2021-02-21T01:18:02 < t4nk_freenode> it seems to only work some of the time
2021-02-21T01:18:21 < Steffanx> Fake tools?
2021-02-21T01:18:42 < t4nk_freenode> fake blue pill, fake stlinkv2 ;)
2021-02-21T01:19:17 < fenugrec> zyp, I don't understand - that's exactly the same part I'm looking at (part c57097), and I'm seeing 10.52$ in qt>1000
2021-02-21T01:19:34 < qyx> zyp: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JmFpc/Screenshot_2021-02-21_00-19-17.png
2021-02-21T01:19:35 < fenugrec> or their pcba service gives you a massive discount ??
2021-02-21T01:19:35 < zyp> I guess maybe jlc got some stock they want to get rid of so they're selling them cheaper
2021-02-21T01:19:38 < fenugrec> aaah
2021-02-21T01:19:41 < zyp> idk
2021-02-21T01:20:02 < zyp> it was cheaper than f407vg that I were originally planning
2021-02-21T01:21:34 < zyp> Steffanx, you're of course free to ignore the trace capability and just use them as plain breakouts if you want :)
2021-02-21T01:21:50 < zyp> but I'm getting it for the trace
2021-02-21T01:23:03 < mawk> my config is complete
2021-02-21T01:23:10 < mawk> I added a 2.4GHz wifi adapter to my pi
2021-02-21T01:23:16 < mawk> one that wasn't locked down for being a AP
2021-02-21T01:23:23 < mawk> good I had one lying around in a drawer
2021-02-21T01:23:41 < Steffanx> Nah, I'm not in need some some f427 board zyp
2021-02-21T01:23:57 < Steffanx> I think I have one somewhere or.. maybe its 429 not sure
2021-02-21T01:24:15 < zyp> it's got usb, trace header, HSI/HSE crystals, a few leds, enough IO to run some uarts/spi/i2c/timers/whatever
2021-02-21T01:24:28 < zyp> oh, and a 1R on the power supply if you wanna measure power usage
2021-02-21T01:24:32 < Steffanx> In need of some*
2021-02-21T01:24:43 < t4nk_freenode> but what's the advantage over 407vet6?
2021-02-21T01:25:05 < zyp> four times as large flash, for one
2021-02-21T01:25:06 < t4nk_freenode> got one of those, and thinking about buying one or two more
2021-02-21T01:25:20 < t4nk_freenode> slightly faster cpu
2021-02-21T01:25:26 < zyp> e = 512k, i = 2M
2021-02-21T01:25:39 < mawk> now I have both 2.4GHz and 5GHz SSIDs, bridged together with ethernet on the right VLAN, then DHCP listening on it
2021-02-21T01:25:47 < mawk> and it goes up auto at boot
2021-02-21T01:25:54 < mawk> now I'm never touching that thing again in my life hopefully
2021-02-21T01:25:58 < mawk> that's the kind of write-only configuration
2021-02-21T01:26:17 < Steffanx> G4 would have been nice, just because its a newer family
2021-02-21T01:27:07 < zyp> oh, and f427 with dual bank can also swap the banks like G4, I just learned that today :)
2021-02-21T01:28:12 < qyx> what do export in kikecad for jlcpcb to do the assembly?
2021-02-21T01:28:19 < qyx> *did you
2021-02-21T01:28:23 < zyp> idk, I use altium
2021-02-21T01:28:31 < qyx> hrmph
2021-02-21T01:28:43 < zyp> they want a BOM and a P&P file
2021-02-21T01:28:48 < zyp> csv/xls
2021-02-21T01:28:58 < zyp> pretty simple shit
2021-02-21T01:29:10 < qyx> so they are processing it manually?
2021-02-21T01:29:21 < qyx> bom is clickable, I know
2021-02-21T01:29:39 < zyp> no, it's parsed and then you can do manual matching and get a placement preview with orientations
2021-02-21T01:29:52 < zyp> some of them were wrong so I went back and changed them until it looked good
2021-02-21T01:30:08 < Steffanx> Sounds pretty cool. 
2021-02-21T01:30:15 < qyx> and the price was estimated automatically?
2021-02-21T01:30:24 < zyp> yes
2021-02-21T01:30:40 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NVsqa.png <- looked like this before corrections
2021-02-21T01:30:58 < zyp> LED are wrong way around, LDO is rotated 90 degrees and usb-c is … wrong
2021-02-21T01:31:37 < zyp> could be better, but overall not bad
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2021-02-21T03:43:23 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-02-21T03:47:32 < R2COM> yo
2021-02-21T03:47:37 < R2COM> how is it going
2021-02-21T03:48:06 < R2COM> im done for the day gonna play some game
2021-02-21T03:48:59 < kakium69> I have done playing game watching netflix
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2021-02-21T03:54:17 < kakium69> noo.. funny guy left
2021-02-21T03:54:38 < kakium69> R2COM what game you like?
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2021-02-21T04:02:25 < machinehum> jadew, jpa- Thanks, good read. I just thought that consulting might be better then working FTE... but I might able to tip-toe into it without taking the risk of quitting my job
2021-02-21T04:07:00 < machinehum> Signed up for that Right People Group thing
2021-02-21T04:07:23 < machinehum> Maybe someone will hire me to make an IOT blockchain drone cloud toylet
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2021-02-21T04:38:04 < R2COM> kakium69 cyberpunk2077
2021-02-21T04:38:26 < kakium69> where did you get a craphics card?
2021-02-21T04:38:42 < R2COM> still using old one i bought in 2019, RTX2080
2021-02-21T04:39:01 < R2COM> its not quite old tho
2021-02-21T04:39:04 < kakium69> I'm kinda planning to update to 1060 super
2021-02-21T04:39:15 < R2COM> update to 1060? lol
2021-02-21T04:39:56 < R2COM> who updates to fucking obsolete old cards
2021-02-21T04:40:10 < kakium69> cheapskatin
2021-02-21T04:40:18 < kakium69> only pay like 300eur
2021-02-21T04:40:25 < kakium69> instead of 1500eur
2021-02-21T04:40:27 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-21T04:40:50 < kakium69> friend sold some 700-series passive gpu
2021-02-21T04:40:52 < kakium69> for 40eur
2021-02-21T04:41:14 < R2COM> i dont think that even can do 4k
2021-02-21T04:41:16 < R2COM> or it can
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2021-02-21T04:42:06 < R2COM> i was even thinking selling my PC
2021-02-21T04:42:18 < kakium69> some 12year old boy came to get it with metaphorically "erection on"
2021-02-21T04:42:23 < R2COM> and going full retard for mega strong AMD build for beating macpro
2021-02-21T04:42:46 < kakium69> so 10k budget machine?
2021-02-21T04:42:50 < R2COM> no
2021-02-21T04:42:52 < R2COM> $5.5k
2021-02-21T04:43:03 < R2COM> which beats $15k macpro in performance by 2x
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2021-02-21T04:43:21 < R2COM> and i'd do maybe dualboot hackintosh + win10... if its possible i guess
2021-02-21T04:43:23 < R2COM> but
2021-02-21T04:43:28 < R2COM> i kinda decided to wait for now
2021-02-21T04:43:41 < R2COM> cuz.. that amd threadripper 32 core CPU was released in 25 Nov 2019
2021-02-21T04:43:48 < R2COM> been >1 year already
2021-02-21T04:43:57 < R2COM> maybe later they gonna come up with even more crazy shit
2021-02-21T04:44:03 < R2COM> so ill get right that one then
2021-02-21T04:45:12 < kakium69> zen3->zen4 jump is not that massive than zen2->zen3
2021-02-21T04:46:33 < R2COM> but its not zen 
2021-02-21T04:46:50 < R2COM> i mean ryzen 3970x is not zen isnt it
2021-02-21T04:47:27 < R2COM> they have different families
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2021-02-21T04:50:52 < R2COM> i actually chatting with AMD sales chat now, and asked this question and he is like "let me dig into that, thas a good question"
2021-02-21T04:51:03 < R2COM> its like...his job...and yet he cant keep few things in mind lol
2021-02-21T04:52:16 -!- ohsix [~ohsix@h67-204-153-167.bendor.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-02-21T04:53:14 < R2COM> oh guess what
2021-02-21T04:54:12 < R2COM> 3970x based on ZEN2
2021-02-21T04:54:24 < R2COM> and 5000 series new threadripper which hasnt been released yet will be on ZEN3
2021-02-21T04:55:58 < R2COM> and i guess ill wait and buy that one
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2021-02-21T05:04:24 < R2COM> that will be badass
2021-02-21T05:04:36 < R2COM> 32 cores zen3 based
2021-02-21T05:06:45 < R2COM> https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-threadripper-5000-zen-3-hedt-cpu-leak
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2021-02-21T06:46:20 < jadew> another funny jab at Tesla from that youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vomb4G_z9lE?start=161&end=177
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2021-02-21T09:59:35 < jadew> lmfao, just found out that Venezuela had 10 billion % inflation from 2016 to 2020
2021-02-21T10:01:49 < jadew> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Money_on_the_floor_%E2%86%92_economic_crisis.jpg
2021-02-21T10:06:00 < jadew> hmm, might have been higher, need to do the math on the wiki values
2021-02-21T10:10:34 < jadew> this is what I came up with by multiplying the inflation ratios from 2016 to 2019 (inclusive): 54,400,000,000,000%
2021-02-21T10:11:26 < jadew> looks like it's in the trillion of percents (the 10 billion figure was taken from a video describing the evolution of their stock market), but it now makes sense why the presenter said it's a crash up
2021-02-21T10:11:29 < qyx> isn't it much?
2021-02-21T10:12:04 < jadew> qyx, in there, it's cheaper to wipe your ass with money than to buy toilet paper
2021-02-21T10:12:57 < jadew> qyx, they had 10 million percent inflation in 2019 alone
2021-02-21T10:13:14 < jadew> and 1.7 million% in 2018
2021-02-21T10:14:29 < jadew> 1.7e6 / 100 * 10e6 / 100 * 100 = 170 billion percent
2021-02-21T10:14:34 < jadew> in two years
2021-02-21T10:16:50 < jadew> it's probably a good market for real estate
2021-02-21T10:17:05 < jadew> you can probably buy land for peanuts, if the government lets you
2021-02-21T10:19:45 < jadew> I wonder what they ended up using as currency, because it's clear that money was useless
2021-02-21T10:20:24 < jadew> can you imagine selling your house only to find out that in a couple of months all that money was worth shit?
2021-02-21T10:36:13 < jadew> what happened there is proof that people are greedy and stupid
2021-02-21T10:36:43 < jadew> turns out the population was happy and cheerful for all the government handouts
2021-02-21T10:37:33 < jadew> same handouts and government programs that were killing the economy by competing with private businesses and basically driving them to extinction
2021-02-21T10:37:57 < jadew> they did it to themselves by accepting the poisonous fruit
2021-02-21T10:48:35 < Steffanx> You needed proof jadew ...
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2021-02-21T11:05:20 < jadew> Steffanx, for what?
2021-02-21T11:06:21 < jadew> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45246409
2021-02-21T11:06:35 < Steffanx> People being greedy and stupid 
2021-02-21T11:06:54 < jadew> well, they voted and cheered for the social measures that destroyed their economy
2021-02-21T11:07:05 < jadew> that's greedy and stupid
2021-02-21T11:08:49 < Steffanx> People are greedy and stupid 
2021-02-21T11:09:31 < jadew> ah, you said I _needed_, I thought you asked me to provide proof
2021-02-21T11:09:42 < Steffanx> No... lol
2021-02-21T11:10:17 < Steffanx> Anyway, how bad was it in Venezuela before all this and can you really blame them for being "greedy"?
2021-02-21T11:10:39 < Steffanx> When you have nothing and are promised something... you'll take it 
2021-02-21T11:11:06 < Steffanx> (Not sure if its the case, cant be bothered to real all of it)
2021-02-21T11:11:23 < jadew> from what I've learned in the past hour, they were the run of the mill corrupted country pre '99
2021-02-21T11:11:44 < jadew> afterwards, the government started to properly exploit the oil industry and made lots of money
2021-02-21T11:12:05 < jadew> so for a brief period, things were great
2021-02-21T11:12:09 < Steffanx> Wasnt Venezuela the country that went bwnkrupt a  dozen times know?
2021-02-21T11:13:17 < jadew> I don't know... with that kind of inflation, I'd say they never stopped being bankrupt once it happened
2021-02-21T11:14:01 < jadew> I wonder what the situation is now
2021-02-21T11:14:59 < jadew> looks like it dropped significantly to 2700% last year
2021-02-21T11:15:29 < jadew> and they're expecting only 1700% this years
2021-02-21T11:17:12 < jadew> I'm really curious what they used for currency tho, I refuse to believe they were going to the grocery store with bags full of cash
2021-02-21T11:17:37 < jadew> it would have been a logistic issue for the sellers too, because they wouldn't have been able to store it
2021-02-21T11:17:44 < jadew> so they probably used something else
2021-02-21T11:19:27 < jadew> they use foreign currency (USD, EUR, etc)
2021-02-21T11:20:46 < jadew> https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/8655ca6046a7f068b56bfd988d43bc4afebcb694/0_52_3500_2101/master/3500.jpg?width=445&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=7e957d44c4fa66dbaa83d184707e13b9
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2021-02-21T11:57:45 < Steffanx> Lol. For fun I bought like 100 coins from all over the world old aliexpress. Im just curious what arrives. Lol. Was like 10 euros so I dont care if it nothing. :)
2021-02-21T11:58:03 < Steffanx> Old=on
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2021-02-21T14:31:58 < englishman> there is a numismatic/philatelic store near here with some cool stuff like Zimbabwe dollars and Rhodesian money and stuff, you can go flip through it all like browsing at a library
2021-02-21T14:36:17 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-02-21T15:06:40 < Steffanx> so tell me PaulFertser . Does the average russian (whatever that is) actually care about this navalny situation
2021-02-21T15:08:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: guess the majority doesn't care
2021-02-21T15:08:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: they care about their own well-being only
2021-02-21T15:09:42 < Steffanx> or maybe they do care, but kinda passively.
2021-02-21T15:10:52 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: my impression is that most people prefer to ignore injustice
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2021-02-21T15:59:21 < Steffanx> hm
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2021-02-21T17:08:37 < qyx> Steffanx: is there anything new nappening?
2021-02-21T17:09:00 < jpa-> even in finland there is enough injustice that one can easily overwhelm themselves by caring about too many things
2021-02-21T17:13:27  * t4nk_freenode donates a bag of sticky chocolaty Efteling coins from a donkey's behind to Steffanx ... anything to please a coin collector!
2021-02-21T17:14:37 < t4nk_freenode> btw, I live a lot closer to the Efteling than to the plane-crash-thingie
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2021-02-21T17:37:00 < Steffanx> define: new, qyx 
2021-02-21T17:54:19 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*  I made such a mess of my project's code.. it's been sitting on the desk for over a week now, can't get myself to continue on it
2021-02-21T17:55:08 < t4nk_freenode> I'm afraid there's only 1 solution... *grabbing pen and paper* && *making coffee*
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2021-02-21T18:18:21 < t4nk_freenode> right, where was I, ah, right.. the pen&paper... welllll ..... maybe later!!
2021-02-21T18:18:23 < t4nk_freenode> :b
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2021-02-21T19:12:20 < R2COM> did you know that microcap12 spice sim is free now
2021-02-21T19:12:27 < R2COM> used to be $4k or so
2021-02-21T19:12:35 < R2COM> company closed and said now they give it for free
2021-02-21T19:12:40 < R2COM> no updates tho
2021-02-21T19:13:16 < jpa-> too bad it isn't open source
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2021-02-21T19:14:06 < R2COM> ...
2021-02-21T19:14:12 < R2COM> as if...if it was, what would you do?
2021-02-21T19:14:21 < jpa-> i wouldn't, but someone might
2021-02-21T19:14:28 < jpa-> it would have a future
2021-02-21T19:14:39 < jpa-> now it is more like a dead-end
2021-02-21T19:14:58 < R2COM> noone would anyway do anything with thousands lines of source code
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2021-02-21T19:15:14 < jpa-> how so? that's how blender got started
2021-02-21T19:15:18 < R2COM> if someone wanted he already would go ahead and build something, spice source is free and its available
2021-02-21T19:16:00 < jpa-> and there are tools that do that, but they are not great (qucs-s is probably the best open source one)
2021-02-21T19:16:03 < R2COM> it is *spice*
2021-02-21T19:16:24 < R2COM> its not other architecture like spectre (from cadence) etc
2021-02-21T19:16:28 < R2COM> all spice is berkeley based
2021-02-21T19:16:40 < karlp> if it's all the same, why the fuck should we care about this one then?
2021-02-21T19:16:45 < R2COM> modified in one way or another
2021-02-21T19:17:18 < jpa-> if you have used multiple "spice" based simulators, you'll know the user experience is not the same between tools, even though the simulation engine shares same origins
2021-02-21T19:17:54 < jpa-> *if* (i don't know) microcap is good, then it would probably be a benefit to the world if the company did open source it
2021-02-21T19:18:05 < R2COM> yes, one handles convergence better than another
2021-02-21T19:18:35 < R2COM> ltspice which is so popular and has good reputation is actuallyu a shitty simulator
2021-02-21T19:18:38 < jpa-> most of the time you are clicking around the GUI, not caring about simulation fundamentals - and difference between bad GUI and good GUI can be enormous
2021-02-21T19:18:45 < Steffanx> Oh it has been free since.. 2019?
2021-02-21T19:19:05 < jpa-> TI now offers pspice for free - but for me the license stuff somehow fails and i have to reinstall it every now and then
2021-02-21T19:19:23 < R2COM> for example ltspice sucks at converging
2021-02-21T19:19:46 < R2COM> i recently did some projects, where i had DC-DC, opamp, comparators, was rather complicated sim, kinda all in one, few INAs etc
2021-02-21T19:20:04 < R2COM> it literally didnt run... was trying to find solution for like 40 mins
2021-02-21T19:20:13 < R2COM> although, each individual component simmed OK
2021-02-21T19:20:19 < R2COM> and playing with settings improved it
2021-02-21T19:20:22 < R2COM> in one way or another
2021-02-21T19:20:24 < R2COM> but still shit
2021-02-21T19:20:41 < R2COM> interesting thing is, when i tried same sim in ADS (have access to this sim from work)
2021-02-21T19:20:45 < R2COM> result was almost same
2021-02-21T19:20:46 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-21T19:20:51 < R2COM> although... ADS = $$$$$
2021-02-21T19:21:22 < R2COM> so far, from my experience, the simulator which "took anything in" and just simulate without choking on conversion are: Spectre
2021-02-21T19:21:25 < R2COM> Spectre is from cadence
2021-02-21T19:21:30 < R2COM> its very very expensive
2021-02-21T19:21:47 < R2COM> another sim, which handles this stuff well but is also on order of magnitude faster is Eldo
2021-02-21T19:21:49 < R2COM> from Mentor graphics
2021-02-21T19:21:57 < karlp> you should hve stuck with falstad ;)
2021-02-21T19:22:07 < R2COM> but all that is something what Megacorp can afford
2021-02-21T19:22:09 < karlp> s/mentor/siemens/
2021-02-21T19:22:15  * karlp giggles
2021-02-21T19:22:37 < R2COM> Spectre & Eldo are monster giants and do job well but unaffordable
2021-02-21T19:23:10 < R2COM> i'll soon be experimenting with some other sim, will see how it goes and how that one is good
2021-02-21T19:23:14 < Steffanx> karlp I'm pretty sure he has you on ignore. And me too :)
2021-02-21T19:23:48 < Steffanx> So its pretty much a monologue 🥳
2021-02-21T19:24:02 < karlp> I know, I used to have him on ignore too
2021-02-21T19:24:14 < karlp> but he's been here so rarely recently I diidn't turned it on again  :)
2021-02-21T19:24:31 < jpa-> wow, he ignores you two but not me? :D
2021-02-21T19:27:35 < Steffanx> Your smart and rich jpa- 
2021-02-21T19:27:42 < Steffanx> love guns
2021-02-21T19:28:00 < jpa-> ah, sounds like me
2021-02-21T19:28:12 < Steffanx> exactly
2021-02-21T19:29:10 < jpa-> last year my income was 22kEUR.. that's 2kEUR more than expected! didn't spend it on guns, though
2021-02-21T19:30:07 < R2COM> can you easily buy carbine like rifle in finland?
2021-02-21T19:30:24 < jpa-> you can't easily buy any gun in finland
2021-02-21T19:30:37 < jpa-> well except airgun and watergun
2021-02-21T19:30:44 < R2COM> easily means?
2021-02-21T19:31:02 < Steffanx> Would you get your permit jpa- ? or is this mental condition a reason to not get it?
2021-02-21T19:31:09 < R2COM> is it not possible or possible but with conditions
2021-02-21T19:31:37 < jpa-> Steffanx: probably not a show-stopper
2021-02-21T19:31:56 < jpa-> but usually it requires a couple of years participation in a hunting or target shooting or whatever organization
2021-02-21T19:32:09 < R2COM> such kind of condition is typical for most countries
2021-02-21T19:33:16 < R2COM> but there are countries in which is absolute no go and thats it, like japan
2021-02-21T19:33:27 < R2COM> which i think is dumb as fuck
2021-02-21T19:33:36 < qyx> every american thinks
2021-02-21T19:34:03 < R2COM> most cz guys will think same
2021-02-21T19:34:08 < R2COM> or poland guys
2021-02-21T19:34:16 < R2COM> cuz getting rifle there is easy
2021-02-21T19:34:41 < jpa-> seems sane to me - here it makes sense to use guns for hunting etc, but i don't think japan has as much wild animals to hunt
2021-02-21T19:35:05 < Steffanx> i think dongs is pretty damn wild.
2021-02-21T19:35:10 < R2COM> hunting is ok but guns are for protection first
2021-02-21T19:35:19 < R2COM> pulling gun is faster than calling police
2021-02-21T19:35:27 < jpa-> IMO airguns should be enough for target shooting & stuff like that, but i guess some people need to ruin their lungs with lead dust and ears with bangs
2021-02-21T19:35:35 < jpa-> protection :D
2021-02-21T19:35:40 < R2COM> well yeah
2021-02-21T19:35:41 < Steffanx> shit.. i started this gun madness.. oops
2021-02-21T19:35:50 < jpa-> as if
2021-02-21T19:36:14 < R2COM> as if someone comes to you while you cashing out card near ATM and tells you to give him your wallet?
2021-02-21T19:36:21 < jpa-> .. i give it?
2021-02-21T19:36:26 < R2COM> you will?
2021-02-21T19:36:27 < jpa-> insurance company will cover it
2021-02-21T19:36:28 < jpa-> sure
2021-02-21T19:36:42 < R2COM> what if he asks you to give him a head?
2021-02-21T19:36:50 < R2COM> insurance will cover that too?
2021-02-21T19:36:51 < jpa-> uh.. whose head?
2021-02-21T19:36:56 < R2COM> ...
2021-02-21T19:37:04 < R2COM> what if he asks you to give him blowjob
2021-02-21T19:37:47 < jpa-> depends on situation, but i'd rather just co-operate than start playing with guns even if i had one with me
2021-02-21T19:38:03 < R2COM> ......
2021-02-21T19:38:03 < jpa-> in most cases one could just run away
2021-02-21T19:38:33 < jpa-> because most criminals in finland are drunk and have just a knife or something
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2021-02-21T19:39:31 < Steffanx> imagine getting a heart attack while you are cashing out near an ATM. Such poor death
2021-02-21T19:42:44 < Steffanx> you do that often, jpa- ?
2021-02-21T19:43:09 < jpa-> typical crime in finland: drunk guy goes to store, picks up a case of beer, tells cashier "don't try to stop me or i'll hit you", police comes and watches video tape, "oh, it's bob again, let's go give him a fine he'll never pay because he's on wellfare anyway"
2021-02-21T19:43:22 < jpa-> Steffanx: have heart attacks? not regularly
2021-02-21T19:43:55 < Steffanx> no i mean being drunk harassingwith a knife
2021-02-21T19:44:04 < jpa-> i've never been drunk
2021-02-21T19:44:26 < Steffanx> excellent
2021-02-21T19:44:36 < jpa-> but once my dutch package arrives..
2021-02-21T19:44:55 < Steffanx> parrrrttyyy?
2021-02-21T19:45:55 < Steffanx> sauna party obviously
2021-02-21T19:50:20 < jpa-> i wonder what is the lifetime chance to end up the victim of violent crime by stranger in USA.. here in finland it appears to be less than 10% if one does not themselves participate in drug gangs or similar
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2021-02-21T19:50:51 < jpa-> i doubt that owning guns is much of a protection against domestic violence, especially as usually it is the man who both hits and has the gun
2021-02-21T19:51:34 < Steffanx> 10% is still pretty high
2021-02-21T19:52:18 < jpa-> maybe - though for a lifetime chance it is on level with serious traffic accidents and similar
2021-02-21T19:52:36 < jpa-> and much smaller than minor traffic accidents - while minor assault is probably similar consequences
2021-02-21T19:58:18 < zyp> jlcpcb is estimating what second my pcb will be done
2021-02-21T19:58:29 < zyp> «Estimated finish time: 2021-02-25 20:51:02
2021-02-21T19:58:30 < zyp> »
2021-02-21T19:59:27 < R2COM> my best experience was with allpcb
2021-02-21T19:59:32 < R2COM> both price and quality
2021-02-21T19:59:35 < R2COM> and even speed too
2021-02-21T20:01:51 < Steffanx> thats incl assembly zyp ?
2021-02-21T20:02:24 < Steffanx> i know that wasnt your point, but im still curious
2021-02-21T20:02:27 < zyp> no, assembly doesn't have an ETA
2021-02-21T20:02:56 < zyp> but it says 4 days for the pcb and 1 day for the assembly, so probably done on friday
2021-02-21T20:04:25 < jpa-> what design is it? i usually never manage to make anything so that jlcpcb would have the parts in stock
2021-02-21T20:04:51 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NV2ES.png
2021-02-21T20:05:05 < jpa-> greenpill by zyp ;)
2021-02-21T20:05:06 < zyp> f4 with trace connector
2021-02-21T20:05:34 < zyp> kinda :)
2021-02-21T20:05:48 < jpa-> what are you using for tracing, or are you developing your own?
2021-02-21T20:07:05 < zyp> planning to give orbtrace a try
2021-02-21T20:08:23 < zyp> apparently they've got some stuff running on an ECPIX-5, and when I mentioned I've got one of those they offered to send me a pmod adapter board
2021-02-21T20:09:39 < zyp> I've also ordered a butterstick, which I figure would be an even more appropriate fpga board, with a suitable adapter board
2021-02-21T20:11:18 < zyp> as for trace analysis I figure I might want to write some of the tools myself
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2021-02-21T20:12:19 < Laurenceb> anyone ever used BiSS with stm32?
2021-02-21T20:12:33 < Laurenceb> its weird... like econet
2021-02-21T20:12:59 < aandrew> BiSS? never heard of it before
2021-02-21T20:13:01  * Laurenceb needs to connect to rotary encoders
2021-02-21T20:13:03 < zyp> part of what I want to do is non-invasive trace of the async stuff (suspensions, resumes, timing and overhead of everything with regards to interrupts)
2021-02-21T20:13:13 < zyp> oh
2021-02-21T20:13:22 < zyp> that sounds familiar
2021-02-21T20:13:23 < Laurenceb> aandrew: dual rs485, one is a clock
2021-02-21T20:13:43 < zyp> Laurenceb, is that the same as SSI?
2021-02-21T20:13:49 < aandrew> interesting. sounds pretty trivial, just convert back to single ended and you've got sync serial then, no?
2021-02-21T20:13:52 < Laurenceb> almost aiui
2021-02-21T20:14:09 < zyp> workstuff at $oldjob used a SSI encoder
2021-02-21T20:14:09 < Laurenceb> aandrew: maybe, but there is some i2c style ack stuff aiui
2021-02-21T20:14:13 < aandrew> ah
2021-02-21T20:14:15 < zyp> aandrew, not at all
2021-02-21T20:14:16 < Laurenceb> I should read the spec
2021-02-21T20:14:50 < Laurenceb> just wondered if it had been done already
2021-02-21T20:14:54 < zyp> I haven't looked at BiSS, but SSI is unidirectional clock and data signals, each run over a rs485-style differential transceiver
2021-02-21T20:15:06 < zyp> I just use SPI to receive it
2021-02-21T20:15:34 < Laurenceb> yeah, BiSS is like SSI at physical layer, but higher up it differs aiui
2021-02-21T20:16:16 < zyp> the encoder I had had 12 bits of data, so IIRC all I had to do was clock a 13 or 14 bit SPI transfer, extract the 12-bit data field and decode gray code
2021-02-21T20:16:16 < Laurenceb> the Broadcom/Avago encoders look really nice, but only the BiSS ones are available widely
2021-02-21T20:16:27 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-21T20:16:49  * Laurenceb is designing hyperloop traction controller
2021-02-21T20:17:39 < zyp> when did you become a hyperloop fan?
2021-02-21T20:17:48 < Laurenceb> when they gave me a jerb
2021-02-21T20:18:00 < Laurenceb> not a literal hyperloop tho
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2021-02-21T20:18:44 < Laurenceb> high speed train/bus thing that runs in a vacuum tube
2021-02-21T20:19:10 < Steffanx> aka hyperloop
2021-02-21T20:19:30 < Laurenceb> yeah but without the musk insanity
2021-02-21T20:20:01 < Laurenceb> its just an electric train with DC down the rails and traction control
2021-02-21T20:20:16 < Laurenceb> current design doesnt even have brakes...
2021-02-21T20:22:20 < Laurenceb> there is no zero volume steam for example
2021-02-21T20:22:44 < Laurenceb> motors are oil cooled in current design
2021-02-21T20:24:05 < Steffanx> You guys are not designing a 100% efficient engine? No heat at all?
2021-02-21T20:25:34 < BrainDamage> https://hackaday.com/2013/10/11/sdram-controller-for-low-end-fpgas/#comment-1073379
2021-02-21T20:26:29 < BrainDamage> I guess the rails can be used partially as heatsink
2021-02-21T20:29:54 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: hmm interesting...
2021-02-21T20:29:58 < Laurenceb> I doubt it tho
2021-02-21T20:30:15 < Laurenceb> energy lost at wheel rail/interface can be lost that way tho
2021-02-21T20:30:39 < Laurenceb> atm oil goes to a radiator under the floor and is mainly lost as IR, with some convective loss
2021-02-21T20:30:50 < Laurenceb> cooling the passengers is a pita tho
2021-02-21T20:30:54 < BrainDamage> remember also that you always get a portion of fresh rail
2021-02-21T20:31:03 < Laurenceb> motors can happily run at 150C
2021-02-21T20:31:22 < Laurenceb> passengers might need a water/slush tank
2021-02-21T20:31:36 < BrainDamage> why not a heat pump
2021-02-21T20:31:50 < Laurenceb> heat pump from 25C to 150C is a pita
2021-02-21T20:33:12 < Laurenceb> it might be possible to have a secondary oil loop on the roof at 75C or so, but it all gets quite complex
2021-02-21T20:33:47 < Laurenceb> then there is the air supply
2021-02-21T20:33:58 < Laurenceb> hyperloop is quite complex enough without the musk insanity
2021-02-21T20:34:49 < Laurenceb> atm there is a regenerative zeolite CO2 scrubber, with compressed air tank to maintain ppO2
2021-02-21T20:34:59 < Laurenceb> but ppN2 rises throughout the journey
2021-02-21T20:35:45 < Laurenceb> also the CO2 scrubber is poisoned by water, so there is a regenerative water scrubber before the CO2 scrubber
2021-02-21T20:35:51 < Laurenceb> all rather complex :S
2021-02-21T20:37:24 < Laurenceb> also zeolite bed regen uses resistive heaters, which makes the air even hotter, but it might be possible to do that in the station
2021-02-21T20:38:05 < Laurenceb> but ~0 humidity air is unpleasant to breath 
2021-02-21T20:38:46 < Steffanx> more than just that... my eyes, my skin...
2021-02-21T20:41:18 < Steffanx> Isnt the hyperloop supposed to be soo super fast you dont even have to do a single breath during the trop, Laurenceb ?
2021-02-21T20:41:20 < Steffanx> trip
2021-02-21T20:41:31 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-02-21T20:46:03 < Laurenceb> arggg
2021-02-21T20:46:15 < Laurenceb> BiSS has I2C style start/stop with clock hold
2021-02-21T20:46:52 < Laurenceb> clearly the answer is bit bang, the XMOS way
2021-02-21T20:46:58 < Laurenceb> moar liek bit bong
2021-02-21T20:48:02 < Laurenceb> with single slave its prob possible to just blast the clk line with clocks, grab all the data and process later tho
2021-02-21T21:07:08 < Laurenceb> ok looks like BiSS-C can be haxored using SPI, but final state of MOSI needs to be settable
2021-02-21T21:07:48 < Laurenceb> to configure slave devices
2021-02-21T21:15:49 < Laurenceb> wait I think I cracked it
2021-02-21T21:16:11 < Laurenceb> use MOSI as clk and MISO as data
2021-02-21T21:16:29 < Laurenceb> then its possible to send arbitrary clk sequences
2021-02-21T21:16:33 < Laurenceb> using only DMA
2021-02-21T21:18:09 < Laurenceb> too easy
2021-02-21T21:29:25 < Laurenceb> why did the murican cross the road?
2021-02-21T21:29:36 < Laurenceb> they didnt cuz its illegal to cross the road in murica
2021-02-21T21:34:32 < Steffanx> lol what mr Laurenceb ?
2021-02-21T21:34:43 < Laurenceb> 4chan jokes
2021-02-21T21:34:52 < Laurenceb> >jaywalking
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2021-02-21T22:32:53 < Steffanx> karlp: uuuuhm i know you sometimes like to rage a bit sometimes, but knocking over your table and throwing your glass...?
2021-02-21T22:33:34 < qyx> :D
2021-02-21T22:33:52 < zyp> context?
2021-02-21T22:34:03 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5nqlXeXobk
2021-02-21T22:35:17 < zyp> wat
2021-02-21T22:36:17 < qyx> uh
2021-02-21T22:37:12 < Steffanx> hm?
2021-02-21T22:44:31 < karlp> hah, nice. didn't see htat, was out friday night,
2021-02-21T22:44:38 < karlp> we watch that show relatively often.
2021-02-21T22:44:49 < karlp> would have been better if his name was karl of course.
2021-02-21T22:45:01 < zyp> :)
2021-02-21T22:46:25 < BrainDamage> table flipping no, but throwing things was a biweekly thing at homee
2021-02-21T22:47:10 < karlp> well, daughter number 2 does a shit ton of it, but eshe's 2.5, so still ~somewhat allowed
2021-02-21T22:47:51 < qyx> numbering oldest first?
2021-02-21T22:48:55 < zyp> my kid haven't graduated to table flipping yet, she's just doing chair flipping nowadays
2021-02-21T22:48:57 < Steffanx> karlp: nah you're the only icelander i know, so it has to be you. And chances are that the other icelander i might know is also you are pretty high.
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2021-02-21T22:51:37 < Steffanx> Anyway, back to ozone and why it hardfauls like instantly after startup
2021-02-21T22:51:46 < Steffanx> *the target hardfaults
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2021-02-21T22:52:11 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mFHQW.jpg <- kid enjoys doing this and sitting on it
2021-02-21T22:52:31 < zyp> I guess it's because she's not able to climb up on it otherwise :)
2021-02-21T22:52:53 < karlp> oh, I meant the daughter was throwing, table flipping is definitely out
2021-02-21T22:52:55 < Steffanx> hah :)
2021-02-21T22:53:12 < zyp> yeah, I got that part
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2021-02-21T22:53:40 < karlp> this weekend has also been a rather unpleasant amount of hair pulling and pinching/clawing at faces.
2021-02-21T22:53:47 < karlp> hasn' tbeen the best of weekends :)
2021-02-21T22:54:12 < zyp> wait, clawing at faces at what age?
2021-02-21T22:54:58 < Steffanx> imagine going into quarantine for 2 weeks with 4 kids (4 boys < 10 yo or something) like my neighbours 
2021-02-21T22:55:18 < Steffanx> 4 girls might have been worse though
2021-02-21T22:55:46 < zyp> Steffanx, does «quarantine» there imply «don't go outside»?
2021-02-21T22:55:51 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-02-21T22:56:11 < zyp> that sounds overly strict
2021-02-21T22:56:23 < effractur> i mean if you are infected
2021-02-21T22:56:26 < zyp> here it is «don't meet people»
2021-02-21T22:56:27 < effractur> you cant go outside
2021-02-21T22:56:34 < Steffanx> not sure if that include kids < 10 yo though.
2021-02-21T22:56:39 < qyx> here neither if quarantined
2021-02-21T22:56:46 < Steffanx> *includes
2021-02-21T22:57:00 < effractur> Steffanx: if there is a quarentine order then yes
2021-02-21T22:57:08 < effractur> it does include the whole houshold
2021-02-21T22:57:12 < zyp> oh, here they call it isolation if you're actually infected, quarantine is just when you're at increased risk
2021-02-21T22:57:23 < effractur> they call it the same
2021-02-21T22:57:29 < effractur> because they are idiots
2021-02-21T22:57:40 < qyx> here it is the other wy around
2021-02-21T22:57:51 < qyx> you should live ~isolated
2021-02-21T22:57:53 < effractur> but i can ramble for days about the stupid communication issues that they are making
2021-02-21T22:57:57 < qyx> if infected, you are quarantined
2021-02-21T22:58:10 < zyp> let me double check the rules here
2021-02-21T22:58:14 < qyx> oh, communication issues?
2021-02-21T22:58:23 < Steffanx> but that's also becuase we all know better effractur  :P
2021-02-21T22:58:28 < effractur> as in how you name things 
2021-02-21T22:58:29 < qyx> is there any country besides us having communication issues?
2021-02-21T22:58:52 < effractur> Steffanx: partly but most of it is just stupid
2021-02-21T22:59:12 < qyx> our gov is mostly incompetent in handling covid
2021-02-21T22:59:13 < effractur> like if you want to promote waring fasemasks it does not help if all public politicans are not doing it either
2021-02-21T22:59:14 < qyx> and not only that
2021-02-21T22:59:17 < Steffanx> but there is still common sense, although i begin to suspect that doesnt exist anymore. if ever existed.
2021-02-21T22:59:29 < zyp> «isolation -- stay at home», «quarantine -- don't go to school/work, don't use public transport, don't visit people»
2021-02-21T22:59:56 < effractur> and it gets even worse that still lots of hospiales are refusing to enforce proper facemasks
2021-02-21T22:59:59 < effractur> resulting in 
2021-02-21T23:00:05 < effractur> *suprise* outbreaks in hospitals
2021-02-21T23:00:23 < Steffanx> thats not lack of communication, thats just... whatever you want to call it
2021-02-21T23:00:28 < effractur> Steffanx: it is
2021-02-21T23:00:33 < PaulFertser> Am I the only one vaccinated here?
2021-02-21T23:00:33 < Steffanx> or bad communnication.
2021-02-21T23:00:39 < zyp> PaulFertser, probably
2021-02-21T23:00:39 < Steffanx> Yes PaulFertser .
2021-02-21T23:00:53 < effractur> some friends of mine are
2021-02-21T23:01:01 < effractur> but thats it :(
2021-02-21T23:01:09 < Steffanx> Are your friends overly fat effractur ?
2021-02-21T23:01:13 < Steffanx> bmi > 40
2021-02-21T23:01:14 < qyx> yes, I will get my mrna joice during the 11th phase.. of a 11 phase plan
2021-02-21T23:01:14 < effractur> Steffanx: no 
2021-02-21T23:01:17 < Steffanx> lol
2021-02-21T23:01:30 < effractur> qyx: ah at least you are getting mrna 
2021-02-21T23:01:33 < PaulFertser> I'm still rather puzzled that the moscow numbers continue to go down despite no real lockdown measures left in place.
2021-02-21T23:01:41 < Steffanx> real numbers?
2021-02-21T23:01:57 < effractur> they are planning on using AZ :(
2021-02-21T23:02:08 < qyx> effractur: actually thats a question, here they are starting to use AZ
2021-02-21T23:02:13 < effractur> Steffanx: no one is in one of the trails
2021-02-21T23:02:18 < qyx> but I suspect AZ will be void until then
2021-02-21T23:02:20 < karlp> zyp: clawing at the face at 2.5 is too old to be clawing at faces, yes...
2021-02-21T23:02:22 < Steffanx> oh, thats cheating effractur 
2021-02-21T23:02:25 < effractur> and an other one is working at the vaccination thingy
2021-02-21T23:02:35 < zyp> karlp, that's what I thought
2021-02-21T23:02:36 < effractur> so if there are leftovers they get one
2021-02-21T23:02:51 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: most probably yes. It's hard to hide numbers thanks to social media and smartphones.
2021-02-21T23:02:52 < zyp> working on putting a stop to that here now :)
2021-02-21T23:02:59 < Steffanx> but there are not leftovers.. left overs means the right people didnt get it effractur  :P
2021-02-21T23:03:14 < effractur> Steffanx: with the lots of snow
2021-02-21T23:03:18 < karlp> zyp: it had kinda stopped ages ago, but yeah, not a pleasant weekend. *shrugs*
2021-02-21T23:03:22 < effractur> some old pepole did not manage to make the appointment
2021-02-21T23:03:30 < effractur> so there were some leftovers
2021-02-21T23:03:30 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: isnt it even easy than? Cant check what is not being registered
2021-02-21T23:03:53 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: hospitals have to admit patients if they're in serious condition.
2021-02-21T23:03:58 < zyp> they are doing both pfizer, moderna and AZ here now
2021-02-21T23:04:47 < Laurenceb> BiSS is weird, clocked but uses missing clks to send data from master
2021-02-21T23:04:57 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: moscow's reasonably transparent in this regard, much more so than the rest of russia.
2021-02-21T23:05:15 < zyp> and it looks like my turn won't be before Q3, so I figure even more vaccines might be approved by then
2021-02-21T23:05:23 < zyp> so idk which one I'll get
2021-02-21T23:05:24 < Steffanx> maybe i can use the asthma i had as a kid to get a vaccine more early. Apparently, i never knew until recently, you never really get rid of asthma.
2021-02-21T23:05:35 < zyp> unlikely
2021-02-21T23:05:53 < zyp> wife has asthma but it doesn't place her higher on the priority list
2021-02-21T23:06:03 < Steffanx> not totally unlikely. I even got an invite for the yearly flu vaccine a few years back
2021-02-21T23:06:09 < Steffanx> never asked for it, never went for it.
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2021-02-21T23:07:52 < PaulFertser> I get flu(s) vaccine every year, can't see why I shouldn't.
2021-02-21T23:08:28 < zyp> Steffanx, I checked the priority criterias here, asthma only counts if you're over 50 and has needed a «high dose medicine» during the past year
2021-02-21T23:08:28 < PaulFertser> (the regular one against 3 types of flu)
2021-02-21T23:08:41 < Steffanx> I don't see why I should. Cant even remember the last time had "the" flu.
2021-02-21T23:09:13 < Steffanx> zyp: i dont know about the criterias here. Im not going to abuse it anyway.
2021-02-21T23:09:40 < zyp> I don't assume they differ a lot
2021-02-21T23:10:19 < zyp> I actually had a flu january or so last year
2021-02-21T23:11:31 < PaulFertser> The distinct feature of a flu is a very fast onset of seriously elevated temperature. You feel all right and then just few hours later you suddenly have fever.
2021-02-21T23:11:45 < zyp> been wondering if it could have been undetected covid, but it was a bit too early for that to be likely
2021-02-21T23:12:01 < zyp> PaulFertser, for me the distinct feature is the muscle pain
2021-02-21T23:13:51 < PaulFertser> zyp: I have back pain combined with fever usually :/
2021-02-21T23:14:55 < zyp> I've currently got a cold, featuring a runny or congested nose and a sore throat
2021-02-21T23:15:09 < zyp> probably no fever, no muscle pain
2021-02-21T23:15:11 < aandrew> runny and congested at the same time is the worst
2021-02-21T23:15:20 < aandrew> you can't fucking breathe, but it's dripping
2021-02-21T23:15:30 < PaulFertser> I sometimes get a running nose but it lasts for about 24 hours only.
2021-02-21T23:15:50 < PaulFertser> Sneezing in a closed integral motor bike helmet is /something/
2021-02-21T23:16:17 < zyp> yeah, nose was bad on thursday, better now
2021-02-21T23:16:27 < zyp> pretty much just a sore throat left
2021-02-21T23:16:47 < PaulFertser> Americans say icecream helps. And cheers you up at the same time.
2021-02-21T23:16:50 < zyp> still haven't decided whether I should go to work tomorrow
2021-02-21T23:16:59 < PaulFertser> But I wouldn't trust their judgement.
2021-02-21T23:17:00 < Steffanx> What does russia say PaulFertser ?
2021-02-21T23:17:01 < aandrew> PaulFertser: yeah it's osmething for sure... ew.
2021-02-21T23:17:14 < aandrew> ice cream is good for a lot of things
2021-02-21T23:17:34 < Steffanx> stroopwafel mcflurry \o/
2021-02-21T23:17:40 < zyp> on one hand I tested negative for covid on friday, but on the other hand it makes total sense to not spread symptoms that can be confused with covid
2021-02-21T23:18:01 < Steffanx> yeah, indeed zyp .
2021-02-21T23:18:02 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: boil potatoes and inhale the vapour.
2021-02-21T23:18:25 < Steffanx> Colleague of mine was like that. Negative -> back to work. Just to infect all the others with non-covid.
2021-02-21T23:18:55 < Steffanx> Great.
2021-02-21T23:18:57 < zyp> and I don't really _need_ to be at the office anyway
2021-02-21T23:21:19 < zyp> I guess what I'll do tomorrow is draft up a proposal for the bootloader solution, maybe even make a nice presentation of it
2021-02-21T23:28:43 < zyp> hmm
2021-02-21T23:29:39 < aandrew> is russian
2021-02-21T23:29:47 < aandrew> mentions potato based remedy
2021-02-21T23:29:48 < zyp> I was gonna put in a digikey order tonight, added a new customer profile for my company so I can get the VAT deduction right now that I'm eligible for it, and apparently that needs to be handled manually
2021-02-21T23:30:12 < zyp> and apparently I can't put in the order as long as the customer number is pending
2021-02-21T23:40:34 < qyx> it looks like that the first timepulse from the u-blox is inaccurate
2021-02-21T23:42:08 < qyx> probably depends on the configuration
2021-02-21T23:47:29 < qyx> no, it does not
2021-02-21T23:47:56 < karlp> well, now I have scripted footprint generation for kicad, I'm tempted to do scripted 3d models too....
2021-02-21T23:48:22 < qyx> uh, isn't there such thing?
2021-02-21T23:48:28 < qyx> I was using it for BGAs
2021-02-21T23:48:30 < karlp> there is, but I've not tired it out.
2021-02-21T23:48:35 < karlp> been adding cheap inductors
2021-02-21T23:48:46 < karlp> because, autism rather than actual product....
2021-02-21T23:49:10 < qyx> scrit for 3D models could be actually useful
2021-02-21T23:49:14 < qyx> for those QFNs
2021-02-21T23:49:21 < karlp> so I was weirded out by their being multipl footprints for the inductors when the only difference is the height, but it's because the 3d model is tied to the footprint...
2021-02-21T23:49:31 < karlp> so you just prented that duplication doesn't bother you....
2021-02-21T23:49:32 < qyx> size, height, pitch, pins, center pad is not important
2021-02-21T23:50:00 < karlp> well, the 3d nerds will say that you should make the pads there too, beucase .... should do it right.
2021-02-21T23:50:10 < qyx> yeah I was quite disappointed that 3d models cannot be easily parametrized
2021-02-21T23:50:36 < qyx> radial caps for example
2021-02-21T23:50:40 < qyx> I mean their height
2021-02-21T23:51:07 < karlp> yeah, having to choose a different _footprint_ to be able to get a different height seems.  kinda gross.
2021-02-21T23:51:10 < karlp> but it does _work_
2021-02-21T23:51:44 < qyx> so filtering out the first 1PPS solves the issue, the thing is quite stable now https://paste.jvnv.net/view/a2T0y
2021-02-21T23:52:39 < karlp> nice, https://product.tdk.com/info/en/document/catalog/smd/inductor_commercial_power_slf7055_en.pdf returns a 404 with _zero_ body.
2021-02-21T23:54:02 < Laurenceb> sheeettt
2021-02-21T23:54:18 < Laurenceb> >hyperboss is accusing me of being an sjw commie agitator 
2021-02-21T23:54:26 < Laurenceb> >behind my back
2021-02-21T23:54:35 < karlp> nice, tdk stuff really gives you much flatter L over I curves...
2021-02-21T23:54:47  * karlp should replug into the numbers what happens when L goes down at peak load....
2021-02-21T23:54:56 < Laurenceb> inb4 I get fired for "being a commie"
2021-02-21T23:56:34 < Steffanx> Lol, im sorry. I had a talk with your boss about you, laurier 
2021-02-21T23:56:38 < Steffanx> Laurenceb. 
2021-02-21T23:57:36 < Laurenceb> sheeetttt
2021-02-21T23:58:14  * Laurenceb had circulated an email suggesting workers should get a revenue sharing agreement added to their contracts
2021-02-21T23:59:04 -!- rodent12 is now known as catphish
--- Day changed Mon Feb 22 2021
2021-02-22T00:01:06 < karlp> ok, L sags, so ripple goes up, so peak current switch goes up, which is a positive feedback loop, but is capped at max system load, so... ok :)
2021-02-22T00:02:08 < Laurenceb> its strange
2021-02-22T00:02:28 < Laurenceb> on the internets I'm called an alt-right nazi, in real life a commie sjw
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2021-02-22T00:03:03 < zyp> what do you feel like yourself?
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2021-02-22T00:04:07 < Laurenceb> a troll
2021-02-22T00:04:11 < Laurenceb> naturally
2021-02-22T00:04:31 < Laurenceb> its probably because I just like to wind people up lmao
2021-02-22T00:04:57 < zyp> yeah, that's how you come off to me too, just an asshole that stirs up shit
2021-02-22T00:05:23 < Laurenceb> kekkk
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2021-02-22T00:16:52 < mawk> why did you do that Laurenceb lol
2021-02-22T00:16:57 < mawk> you want to lose your job?
2021-02-22T00:17:03 < mawk> you filthy sjw commie
2021-02-22T00:17:43 < catphish> your leftist commie nonsense will destroy this country
2021-02-22T00:25:48 < mawk> exactly
2021-02-22T00:26:02 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/TheHallWay1/status/1361064937938964480/photo/1
2021-02-22T00:27:37 < Steffanx> Welcome back mawk
2021-02-22T00:27:47 < mawk> a
2021-02-22T00:29:56 < Steffanx> Did you see this image BrainDamage posted a few days back Laurenceb ?
2021-02-22T00:30:02 < Steffanx> Let me find it
2021-02-22T00:33:06 < Steffanx> Laurenceb http://imgur.com/a/L2Ivo7B
2021-02-22T00:33:48 < Laurenceb> lmao
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2021-02-22T01:43:59 < qyx> stm32 pros
2021-02-22T01:44:20 < qyx> any recommended lightweight way of doing atomic reads from a structure?
2021-02-22T01:44:29 < qyx> (struct timespec)
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2021-02-22T01:57:25 < karlp> babby's first parametric modelling: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/XZXvM.png
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2021-02-22T02:11:31 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix mint
2021-02-22T02:11:38 < Laurenceb> >shutdown dialog has crashed
2021-02-22T02:15:36 < Laurenceb> >keyboard unmounted
2021-02-22T02:15:37 < Laurenceb> wtffffff
2021-02-22T02:42:27 < t4nk_freenode> lol@zyp
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2021-02-22T03:00:40 < qyx> 0x08007fc4 in i2c_transfer7 (i2c=1073763328, addr=<optimized out>, w=<optimized out>, wn=<optimized out>, r=r@entry=0x20002d46 "", rn=rn@entry=2) at ../common/i2c_common_v2.c:418
2021-02-22T03:00:43 < qyx> 418                                     while (i2c_nack(i2c)); /* FIXME Some error */
2021-02-22T03:00:46 < qyx> :D
2021-02-22T03:06:53 < R2COM> why is that a struct
2021-02-22T03:37:51 < kakium69> hello night shift
2021-02-22T04:09:24 < R2COM> yo
2021-02-22T04:10:55 < kakium69> you live in texas R2COM?
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2021-02-22T06:42:12 < R2COM> nah
2021-02-22T06:42:17 < R2COM> why
2021-02-22T06:44:42 < R2COM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jWwKDz-3B4
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2021-02-22T10:17:40 < Steffanx> kakium69, are you part of the morning crew now?
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2021-02-22T11:26:06 < kakium69> no
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2021-02-22T11:49:34 < Steffanx> It seems you are 
2021-02-22T11:50:47 < karlp> qyx: you may like this: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/894 though it seems fairly clunky api wise
2021-02-22T11:51:03 < karlp> the "no, fuck providing test cases" really made my day as far as working on i2c again though
2021-02-22T11:55:54 < Laurenceb> muh iso9001
2021-02-22T12:03:29 < Laurenceb> >when ur sitting in a zoom meeting and the other people are late but you cant leave incase they show up
2021-02-22T12:03:30 < Laurenceb> reeee
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2021-02-22T12:33:24 < qyx> oh it fixes the const thing too
2021-02-22T12:43:20 < karlp> which const thing do you want to fix?
2021-02-22T12:43:47 < karlp> someone has a patch just adding const to one param, and I'm like, really, you want to patch just _this_ tiny little thiing of const ness?
2021-02-22T12:55:25 < srk> how would the test look like? use another ST to mock i2c device that generates NACKS when instructed?
2021-02-22T12:59:19 < qyx> karlp: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/894/commits/7141657472c416546f46166d34c7119879663c3e#diff-add7bddb271c095a014d2da53ebcf0ad67101b9e3238ceaed55499377dae6eb2R411
2021-02-22T13:03:04 < karlp> yes yes, I know it's nominally const.
2021-02-22T13:03:15 < karlp> it's hardly a priority though.
2021-02-22T13:03:27 < karlp> there's probably a mountain of const correctness apis that oculd be done,
2021-02-22T13:03:35 < karlp> and i'm not really in favour of having it "sometimes"
2021-02-22T13:03:49 < qyx> I'll test that PR if it helps with my NACK thing before I'll dig deeper
2021-02-22T13:03:51 < karlp> as it would (IMO) give the impression that the apis have been handled properlyu, so if it's const, it's marked as such.
2021-02-22T13:04:17 < qyx> it just generates warnings for my code, hence I am mentioning it
2021-02-22T13:04:33 < karlp> I mean, I kinda hate that code, it just looks so horrible. but... hey, I knew when I wrote it that there was goign to be error handling in the real world.
2021-02-22T13:04:40 < karlp> the devices I had were well behaved.
2021-02-22T13:04:50 < karlp> and i never got as far as porting or writing my own i2c slave shit
2021-02-22T13:05:19 < qyx> this ublox apparently handles I2C in software
2021-02-22T13:05:44 < qyx> it NACKs you things if you are pushing too hard
2021-02-22T13:06:17 < karlp> srk: that would be ideal, yes, there's a repo of wip for that here: https://github.com/karlp/libopencm3-tests/tree/master/tests/i2c-master
2021-02-22T13:06:42 < karlp> that wsa where I built the standardized higher level apis, but it was based aroudn a particular fixed target i2c device
2021-02-22T13:06:59 < karlp> ideally, an i2c slave impl on the hw1 device, so I can plug them all in, 
2021-02-22T13:07:06 < karlp> and then use sigrok to verify as well.
2021-02-22T13:07:40 < srk> nice. do you also have instrumentation to do all of that automatically?
2021-02-22T13:08:21 < srk> I've got GPIO/SPI/CAN loop tests on one board but no distributed scenarios yet
2021-02-22T13:08:32 < karlp> eh, not entirely.
2021-02-22T13:09:26 < srk> I need to finish the framework as I'm afraid to touch drivers w/o testing if it breaks anything
2021-02-22T13:09:26 < karlp> but likely some python driving sigrok-cli and make/flash that can generate test reports for something like jenkins et al, 
2021-02-22T13:09:36 < karlp> that's similar in concept to the gadget0 stuff,
2021-02-22T13:09:42 < karlp> then it just needs to get driven on all PRs, 
2021-02-22T13:09:46 < srk> gadget0?
2021-02-22T13:09:54 < karlp> whicih I had sort of working for the gadget0 stuff, but ... issues.
2021-02-22T13:09:56 < srk> if you python you could find this useful https://labgrid.readthedocs.io
2021-02-22T13:10:01 < karlp> gadget0 is the "basic usb device implementation"
2021-02-22T13:10:06 < karlp> yah, looked at labgrid before
2021-02-22T13:10:07 < srk> right, I remember that
2021-02-22T13:10:20 < srk> and the jenkins script
2021-02-22T13:10:35 < karlp> honestly wasn't impressed, seemed more for sharing access to test devices, but, yeah, labgrid is one of the options around for some of this.
2021-02-22T13:10:52 < srk> I've only stumbled on it because the guy was trying to fix some pyserial issues they are having by switching to his fork of pyserial
2021-02-22T13:11:20 < karlp> you must be doing wonky things with pyserial to need a fork... :)
2021-02-22T13:11:27 < karlp> there's not a lot in it...
2021-02-22T13:11:34 < karlp> but whatever, not my circus :)
2021-02-22T13:12:02 < srk> I don't.. RFC2217 something - https://github.com/pyserial/pyserial/pull/382
2021-02-22T13:12:15 < srk> I avoid python nowadays if possible :)
2021-02-22T13:12:42 < karlp> is that one of the "standard, but not implemented anywhere" remote serial port things?
2021-02-22T13:12:51 < srk> my framework is ssh/sockets/gdb-mi and haskell gluing that together
2021-02-22T13:13:05 < karlp> ahh, so guaranteeing tha tno-one else will ever use it...
2021-02-22T13:13:22 < srk> well :) I don't care tbh
2021-02-22T13:13:32 < karlp> rfc2217 even says "experimental, errata exist"
2021-02-22T13:13:35 < srk> I won't use pigweed because it's python.. so :)
2021-02-22T13:13:37 < karlp> kinda surprised peopel stuck with it.
2021-02-22T13:13:46 < karlp> not because it's google? it'ðs the python that's the problem?
2021-02-22T13:13:50 < karlp> that's an interesting approach
2021-02-22T13:14:02 < karlp> what is the python drama anyway?  not allowed to like common tooling?
2021-02-22T13:14:30 < srk> yep, python ecosystem is problematic from my PoW. I did my share of python before
2021-02-22T13:14:50 < srk> now the drama is python bringing rust (via cryptography package) :)
2021-02-22T13:15:23 < karlp> that's a build only dep right?
2021-02-22T13:15:32 < karlp> I mean, they handled it badly, bnut why do you care?
2021-02-22T13:15:41 < srk> I don't :)
2021-02-22T13:16:35 < srk> I don't care about bunch of mainstream stuff like gnome/gtk, python, vala, rust.. 
2021-02-22T13:17:20 < srk> I can't stand things breaking too frequently, which is why I'm opting for mature ecosystems instead
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2021-02-22T13:48:05 < englishman> >Laurenceb had circulated an email suggesting workers should get a revenue sharing agreement added to their contracts
2021-02-22T13:48:19 < englishman> good thing as long as Laurenceb they will never have any revenue
2021-02-22T13:53:29 < Laurenceb> prob not cuz hypersperg
2021-02-22T14:09:57 < Steffanx> Lol englishman 
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2021-02-22T15:47:06 < tomeaton17> You guys are pretty good at altium. I am using the multi channel feature but I want to make a small change for each channel. I have a nand gate ic with 4 nand gates on it, and I want each channel to use a different gate. Is it a better idea to set the nand gate i/o as a port or can I change each channel individually
2021-02-22T16:08:02 < zyp> I don't think you can use one part of a common IC with the multi channel feature
2021-02-22T16:21:47 < karlp> found I'd mixed up x and y on my footprint generation.  fix the yaml. regen.  yay
2021-02-22T16:35:00 < qyx> ok the fix mostly solves my issue
2021-02-22T16:35:20 < qyx> mostly because now I have garbage in the fifo left
2021-02-22T16:35:56  * qyx writing static void eat_garbage(..
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2021-02-22T17:39:30 < Steffanx> I wouldnt return void.  Id return garbage.  
2021-02-22T17:39:42 < Steffanx> Garbage in garbage out
2021-02-22T17:40:02 < fenugrec> GIGO
2021-02-22T17:42:41 < karlp> so, what the fuck is with pip now, no serch, and a bunch of stuff that wason pypi si now only on "conda" or something?!
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2021-02-22T17:46:27 < karlp> fucking install conda,
2021-02-22T17:46:31 < karlp> man conda "no man entry"
2021-02-22T17:47:13 < karlp> ERROR: The 'conda help' command is deprecated.
2021-02-22T17:47:16 < karlp> this is the fucking future?!
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2021-02-22T17:47:34 < fenugrec> help is deprecated, nice
2021-02-22T17:48:03 < tomeaton17> conda install --help?
2021-02-22T17:48:19 < tomeaton17> don't think the python people bother with manpages
2021-02-22T17:48:27 < effractur> dont uze conda
2021-02-22T17:48:31 < effractur> it sucks :P
2021-02-22T17:48:37 < karlp> that's alread my opinion
2021-02-22T17:48:48 < karlp> but cadquery 2 is "only" in conda as far as I can see.
2021-02-22T17:49:19 < karlp> oh, it's making venvs in my home dir. awesome.
2021-02-22T17:50:41 < karlp> conda init bash wants sudo permissions.
2021-02-22T17:50:44 < karlp> gtfo what is this trash
2021-02-22T17:51:37 < effractur> like how does it only ship as conda
2021-02-22T17:54:04 < karlp> it wants to install systemwide /usr/bin/activate and a whole bunch of system shit
2021-02-22T17:54:08 < karlp> this is such a cesspit
2021-02-22T17:54:56 < effractur> karlp: https://github.com/CadQuery/CQ-editor/releases there are binarybuild
2021-02-22T17:54:59 < effractur> or do you need the 2?
2021-02-22T17:55:06 < karlp> that's great for an editor, been using that
2021-02-22T17:55:10 < karlp> now I want to scripðt some stuff
2021-02-22T17:55:27 < karlp> so I need it installed somwhere.
2021-02-22T17:55:30 < effractur> aah
2021-02-22T17:55:41 < karlp> not in pip, and conda is a ... well, you've seen how that's been going.
2021-02-22T17:56:44 < karlp> fucking webssites saying that conda is easier to install and use if you dont hve sudo compared to virtualenv
2021-02-22T17:56:52 < karlp> did they even fucking try and use their own instructions?!
2021-02-22T18:00:21 < englishman> what problem are you trying to solve that could have already been solved with labview?
2021-02-22T18:01:32 < karlp> sceripted generationg of 3d models doesn't really sound like labview?
2021-02-22T18:01:49 < fenugrec> you can do everything in labview
2021-02-22T18:05:03 < karlp> doesn't mean you should...
2021-02-22T18:05:07 < Steffanx> Fuck any NI tool.
2021-02-22T18:05:11 < karlp> you could say the same about emacs...
2021-02-22T18:05:25 < Steffanx> I officially hate NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS
2021-02-22T18:05:57 < effractur> rustaag
2021-02-22T18:06:07 < fenugrec> I restrict my NI hate to just labview. They make ok GPIB stuff I think
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2021-02-22T18:11:44 < Laurenceb> lol labview
2021-02-22T18:11:58 < Laurenceb> >hyperloop are reeeing over cost of IEPE accels
2021-02-22T18:12:00 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-02-22T18:12:20 < Laurenceb> oh noes it costs £1k, 0.001% of budget btfo'd
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2021-02-22T18:24:05 < qyx> lol englishman 
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2021-02-22T19:09:48 < karlp> cunts. pip installed conda in a venv, conda now complains that it's not allowed to run like that.
2021-02-22T19:10:14 < Laurenceb> >autistic waifu is still underground
2021-02-22T19:10:19 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56156945
2021-02-22T19:13:06 < effractur> karlp: so vm time + conda + junypter notebook and then your cad stuff in there
2021-02-22T19:13:24 < karlp> that's so much worse.
2021-02-22T19:13:44 < karlp> I wish it would just tell me what it's really checking for
2021-02-22T19:14:11 < karlp> conda init -d --verbose bash shows me what it's trying to install, and it's like a soup of extra bianries all over the place, and mangling python paths.
2021-02-22T19:14:49 < jpa-> i tried to install cadquery once.. gave up
2021-02-22T19:16:12 < effractur> karlp: you can try the miniconda stuff
2021-02-22T19:16:17 < effractur> that should keep it self to one dir
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2021-02-22T19:18:04 < karlp> jpa-: the selling points in the docs and the fat that it's used by kicad scripting already seemed like winners
2021-02-22T19:18:11 < karlp> and the CQ-editor worked really well out of the box
2021-02-22T19:18:30 < karlp> just the "really simple" "just install cadquery" now seems to be wildly insane.
2021-02-22T19:19:06 < karlp> I mena, virtualenv just provides a "activate" shells cript in the venv, why on earth does conda need something else?!
2021-02-22T19:19:45 < effractur> karlp: miniconda does that
2021-02-22T19:22:50 < Steffanx> Why is mr karlp installing conda again?
2021-02-22T19:23:13 < effractur> to get cadquery working
2021-02-22T19:23:18 < effractur> its only distributed as a conda package
2021-02-22T19:25:46 < qyx> whats wrong with gdb?
2021-02-22T19:25:46 < qyx> (gdb) x I2C2_ISR
2021-02-22T19:25:46 < qyx> No symbol "MMIO32" in current context.
2021-02-22T19:25:47 < karlp> add -ggdb3 to your compiler/linker flags
2021-02-22T19:26:34 < qyx> I did
2021-02-22T19:26:34 < qyx> it works normally
2021-02-22T19:26:34 < qyx> but sometimes it does not
2021-02-22T19:26:34  * karlp shrugs
2021-02-22T19:26:48 < jpa-> what is "I2C2_ISR"? a function?
2021-02-22T19:27:02 < karlp> got cadquery installed by pip isntalling the git clone, but now it needs deps, also only on conda...
2021-02-22T19:27:28 < qyx> a macro
2021-02-22T19:27:42 < qyx> now it works, load, monitor reset, cont, ctrl+c, x I2C2_ISR
2021-02-22T19:27:46 < qyx> 0x1:    0x61200280
2021-02-22T19:27:54 < jpa-> ah libopencm3 style register address
2021-02-22T19:28:10 < qyx> now, cont, ctrl+c, x I2C2_ISR
2021-02-22T19:28:12 < qyx> does not work
2021-02-22T19:28:59 < jpa-> are you reading the value from I2C2_ISR and then interpreting that as address?
2021-02-22T19:29:21 < jpa-> because that's what x appears to do in that context
2021-02-22T19:30:01 < qyx> what should I use thenN
2021-02-22T19:30:05 < karlp> setup.py in cadquery doesn't install deps, because it can't, because setup.py old stuff doesn't understand conda.
2021-02-22T19:30:12 < jpa-> p /x I2C2_ISR   i think
2021-02-22T19:30:16 < qyx> on I know what is the problem!
2021-02-22T19:30:25 < qyx> libopencm3 is not compiled with -ggdb3
2021-02-22T19:30:35 < qyx> it works in my code but not in library functions
2021-02-22T19:30:36 < karlp> hrm, it's not?
2021-02-22T19:30:43 < karlp> I thought I added that ages ago?
2021-02-22T19:30:48 < qyx> idk, checking
2021-02-22T19:33:59 < qyx> it is, so why is it the case
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2021-02-22T19:41:08 < karlp> effractur: miniconda to the rescue, thanks for that tip
2021-02-22T19:41:41 < karlp> removed the distro "conda" package, isntalled miniconda, now it's behaving much more rationally, even if it's downloading.... ffmpeg... to be able to instlall cadquery
2021-02-22T19:41:58 < karlp> and netcdf, and.... blah
2021-02-22T19:42:03 < karlp> dont' look behind the curtains...
2021-02-22T19:42:30 < effractur> all my support tickets related to python broken
2021-02-22T19:42:33 < effractur> is always conda 
2021-02-22T19:42:43 < effractur> and still people recommend this shit
2021-02-22T19:43:41 < karlp> trash fire.
2021-02-22T19:43:55 < karlp> "pip search" getting turned off is sure as fuck going to help things too....
2021-02-22T19:44:21 < karlp> so now I have 2.5GB of miniconda crap
2021-02-22T19:44:26 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-02-22T19:46:03 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/iTd/plain   i have 4GB
2021-02-22T19:46:08 < jpa-> and it didn't even work in the end IIRC
2021-02-22T19:47:15 < karlp> well, it works!
2021-02-22T19:47:18 < karlp> fucking hooray
2021-02-22T19:47:35 < karlp> I have a simple error in translating from my one off to my script, but ... yaya
2021-02-22T19:48:11 < effractur> ouch
2021-02-22T20:06:25 < qyx> so the patch has an issue karlp, apparently you cannot set STOP when NACK is received, because it clears the TC flag causing you to get stuck in the while (transfer_complete) loop
2021-02-22T20:06:43 < qyx> (citation needed)
2021-02-22T20:07:12 < qyx> but so far it seems commenting out the i2c_send_stop(i2c); line makes u-blox happy
2021-02-22T20:19:34 < qyx> yeah, it occasionally sends NACK making the read routines went nuts (although not cycling in a while ()) and corrupts the FIFO, but on the next read it waits until a next message header is found making things working again
2021-02-22T20:20:31 < qyx> *go
2021-02-22T20:28:09 < fenugrec> I'm looking for a premade wheel, anyone have code for i2c eeprom (24Cxx) access + DMA ?
2021-02-22T20:33:22 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/RDv8Y7IwZPA
2021-02-22T20:36:33 < karlp> yeah, the patch looked kinda gross. 
2021-02-22T20:36:46 < karlp> the stop/not-stop in the middle of things did seem to be peripheral dependent,
2021-02-22T20:37:03 < karlp> wasn't there a thing that lets you pass zero lengths or something to get repeated start or not or something?
2021-02-22T20:44:42 < Laurenceb> anyone here seen strain gauge bridges driven with AC?
2021-02-22T20:44:48 < Laurenceb> seems overkill to me tbh
2021-02-22T20:45:03 < BrainDamage> I studied them fwiw
2021-02-22T20:45:15 < BrainDamage> it's a way to mitigate 1/f noise
2021-02-22T20:45:24 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-22T20:45:37 < Laurenceb> but does it help with common mode?
2021-02-22T20:46:11 < BrainDamage> no, your diff amp does
2021-02-22T20:46:53 < Laurenceb> yeah that was my thought
2021-02-22T20:47:10 < Laurenceb> someone suggested using AC with lock in to avoid common mode...
2021-02-22T20:48:21 < BrainDamage> you get a common mode signal with lockin or not
2021-02-22T20:48:41 < BrainDamage> because you have 2 arms of a resistor divider
2021-02-22T20:49:09 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-22T20:49:23 < Laurenceb> maybe they are worried about nonlinearity causing demodulation
2021-02-22T20:49:36 < BrainDamage> what you can use is a double balanced mixeer
2021-02-22T20:49:52 < BrainDamage> so that the carrier gets as cancelled as you can
2021-02-22T20:50:18 < BrainDamage> which would be another source of common mode
2021-02-22T20:57:57 < BrainDamage> re: cadquery, the giant thing is opencascade
2021-02-22T20:58:04 < BrainDamage> which they python wrap it
2021-02-22T20:58:13 < BrainDamage> which is also used by freecad
2021-02-22T20:59:53 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-22T21:00:07 < Laurenceb> its pretty good
2021-02-22T21:10:52 < Steffanx> retweeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYQwuYZbA6o
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2021-02-22T21:12:11 < zyp> karlp, conda seems like some bullshit
2021-02-22T21:14:15 < Steffanx> bullshit or not.. apparently you kinda need it?
2021-02-22T21:15:24 < zyp> I've never needed this, this is the first time I see something only distributed as a conda package :)
2021-02-22T21:18:41 < srk> mb you need poetry
2021-02-22T21:19:45 < Steffanx> haksell...
2021-02-22T21:21:17 < srk> I've installed conda like two years ago so to be able to submit python-mnist to it, pretty scary
2021-02-22T21:21:23 < Steffanx> lol srk, always when you mention something i dont know ill assume its Haskell related. Even when its not. :)
2021-02-22T21:21:52 < srk> then I found out you don't need to install full conda which saves few hundred mb
2021-02-22T21:24:18 < srk> Steffanx: I was doing a lot of python before and some C :P
2021-02-22T21:24:29 < srk> wanted to haskell since uni tho
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2021-02-22T22:04:48 < mawk> I did a draw function for the eink screen
2021-02-22T22:04:53 < mawk> but it takes an infinite amount of time to update
2021-02-22T22:04:59 < mawk> I should figure out partial redraws now
2021-02-22T22:05:11 < mawk> so at least the whole screen doesn't flicker
2021-02-22T22:05:31 < mawk> the red color is pretty nice
2021-02-22T22:05:34 < mawk> I expected it to be more washed out
2021-02-22T22:06:23 < mawk> https://serveur.io/eink-red.jpg
2021-02-22T22:08:36 < ventyl> do we have RGB einks already?
2021-02-22T22:10:31 < mawk> this is black/white/red
2021-02-22T22:10:36 < mawk> but we have 7 colors eink ventyl now
2021-02-22T22:10:38 < mawk> it's not rgb though
2021-02-22T22:10:45 < mawk> each display unit is one solid color
2021-02-22T22:10:48 < mawk> but you can mix them using dithering
2021-02-22T22:11:00 < mawk> and make fake subpixels that way
2021-02-22T22:11:15 < mawk> also each pixel is either fully on or fully off
2021-02-22T22:11:29 < mawk> you can't alter brightness
2021-02-22T22:12:05 < ventyl> but can you sort of mix the colors? or is it just "select one out of seven" ?
2021-02-22T22:12:14 < ventyl> ah, you can mix them
2021-02-22T22:12:30 < mawk> no you can't mix them
2021-02-22T22:12:37 < mawk> I meant using dithering
2021-02-22T22:12:51 < mawk> like make a crossed pattern of red and black pixels for instance
2021-02-22T22:12:57 < mawk> to make a darker read when viewed from afar
2021-02-22T22:13:05 < mawk> but you can't mix two colors in a single pixel ventyl 
2021-02-22T22:13:10 < mawk> also this 7 colors display is kinda expensive
2021-02-22T22:13:17 < mawk> 3 colors like I have is more affordable
2021-02-22T22:13:22 < ventyl> ok
2021-02-22T22:14:27 < qyx> ventyl: o/
2021-02-22T22:17:50 < ventyl> qyx: ehlo
2021-02-22T22:19:59 < Steffanx> first timer i see 2 .sk-ers in the same channel
2021-02-22T22:20:14 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I worked out why the chopper wheatstone bridge modulation thing works
2021-02-22T22:20:30 < Steffanx> in theory
2021-02-22T22:20:45 < Laurenceb> if the common mode voltage approaches the rails, then ESD diodes can inject charge onto the input lines
2021-02-22T22:20:54 < zyp> mawk, I see the red/black ones on some of the store price tags nowadays
2021-02-22T22:21:01 < Laurenceb> that gives a ~DC offset
2021-02-22T22:21:10 < zyp> they like using red to highlight discounts
2021-02-22T22:21:28 < Laurenceb> so chopper kind of fixes it... but its already kind of broken by the time you get charge injection
2021-02-22T22:21:28 < mawk> ah nice zyp 
2021-02-22T22:21:33 < mawk> I hope that will drive the price down
2021-02-22T22:21:42 < Laurenceb> so you need proper shielding not chopping really
2021-02-22T22:22:02 < zyp> this sort of stuff: https://www.delfi.com/solutions/chroma-red
2021-02-22T22:22:53 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: you're already starting with a broken assumptiion
2021-02-22T22:25:51 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-22T22:26:04 < Laurenceb> ok so I'm designing a SSI encoder data interceptor
2021-02-22T22:26:10 < Laurenceb> using spi slave mode
2021-02-22T22:26:18 < zyp> why slave?
2021-02-22T22:26:28 < Laurenceb> because its a bus snooping device
2021-02-22T22:26:32 < zyp> ah, right
2021-02-22T22:26:42 < zyp> should work
2021-02-22T22:26:44 < Laurenceb> I need to detect when clk is high for a "long" time
2021-02-22T22:27:03 < Laurenceb> I could use a haxor method with ADC watchdog and RC lowpass
2021-02-22T22:27:11 < Laurenceb> or just RC lowpass and SS
2021-02-22T22:27:21 < Laurenceb> but is there a better way?
2021-02-22T22:28:47 < Steffanx> input capture it?
2021-02-22T22:28:57 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-02-22T22:29:05 < Laurenceb> actually I thought of something
2021-02-22T22:29:15 < Laurenceb> input capture the arrival of each byte
2021-02-22T22:29:46 < Laurenceb> actually no that doesnt help lol
2021-02-22T22:30:10 < Laurenceb> is it possible to reset a timer on edge detect?
2021-02-22T22:30:19 < Laurenceb> so it would timeout
2021-02-22T22:30:21 < mawk> probably
2021-02-22T22:30:39 < Laurenceb> tiem to read datashit
2021-02-22T22:31:49 < zyp> Laurenceb, does your SPI periph support the exact number of bits you need?
2021-02-22T22:32:14 < zyp> and yeah, it would
2021-02-22T22:32:31 < Laurenceb> zyp: no
2021-02-22T22:32:39 < zyp> that's how my old PPMSUM decoder worked
2021-02-22T22:33:14 < zyp> timer used one channel to capture leading edges and another to capture trailing edges, and leading edge capture also reset the timer
2021-02-22T22:34:06 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-22T22:34:13 < zyp> so leading edge capture gives period, trailing edge capture gives pulse width, and update event would signal a long time between edges
2021-02-22T22:34:29 < zyp> i.e. the period between two pulse trains
2021-02-22T22:34:33 < Laurenceb> should be possible to set an output compare to drive SS
2021-02-22T22:34:48 < zyp> true
2021-02-22T22:35:09 < zyp> but does deasserting NSS reset the byte count?
2021-02-22T22:35:20 < zyp> and either way it won't help you finish a word
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2021-02-22T22:35:56 < Laurenceb> ah I thought NSS high would trigger the SPI DMA
2021-02-22T22:35:56 < zyp> IIRC SPIv2 lets you choose arbitrary word sizes, while v1 only gave you 8 or 16 bits, isn't that correct?
2021-02-22T22:36:01 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-22T22:36:33 < Laurenceb> ok well I could use a timer interrupt service routine to clean things up
2021-02-22T22:36:40 < zyp> yeah, v2 can do anything from 4..16 bits
2021-02-22T22:36:41 < Laurenceb> it would just have to run fairly quickly
2021-02-22T22:36:56 < zyp> I'd pick a MCU with v2 for this purpose then
2021-02-22T22:37:41 < zyp> otherwise you might as well dma/timer/bitbang it
2021-02-22T22:38:26 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-02-22T22:38:37 < Laurenceb> I think a timer isr can fix it tho
2021-02-22T22:38:50 < Laurenceb> and thatd be still much nicer than bit bang
2021-02-22T22:39:06 < Laurenceb> as it just needs to run before the next packet starts to arrive
2021-02-22T22:39:38 < zyp> can't you just have the clock signal trigger a dma from gpio?
2021-02-22T22:39:40 < Laurenceb> isr has to retreive the dma bytes, splice on the remaining bits, and reset the spi
2021-02-22T22:39:59 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah but the clk is >10Mhz
2021-02-22T22:40:30 < zyp> wat
2021-02-22T22:41:16 < Laurenceb> you think dma will be responsive enough?
2021-02-22T22:42:56 < Laurenceb> packets are at 10kHz, so there is plenty of time between packets
2021-02-22T22:43:53 < Laurenceb> but to dma at 10Mhz (actually needs >20Mhz to capture the data bits) would surely be challenging
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2021-02-22T23:09:21 < fluiD> I'm trying to get a timer running on an STM32F427. I want the timer to generate a square wave and also allow me to execute some simple code when the wave goes high.
2021-02-22T23:10:00 < fluiD> I was able to generate the square wave fine with "HAL_TIM_Base_Start" and "HAL_TIM_OC_START" 
2021-02-22T23:10:05 < karlp> zyp: first for me too, but given how pip seems to be abandonware, might become more prevalent?
2021-02-22T23:10:34 < fluiD> when I switched to "HAL_TIM_Base_Start_IT" then any calls to "HAL_TIM_OC_START" or "HAL_TIM_OC_START_IT" just go into an infinite loop
2021-02-22T23:11:36 < zyp> karlp, idk, pip works for me, I don't have time to cry over broken search
2021-02-22T23:14:01 < vegii> what's your opinion on stm8l051f3p6?
2021-02-22T23:14:24 < karlp> if you like stm32 periphs on on small nichce processors, find,
2021-02-22T23:14:30 < karlp> but question what your goal realyl is.
2021-02-22T23:14:42 < karlp> and if you're not planning a prodcut with 10k units, question if your time is worth it.
2021-02-22T23:15:01 < vegii> cr2032-powered pillbox cap with a small OLED
2021-02-22T23:15:32  * karlp finds out whether I cna use miniconda envs in pycharm...
2021-02-22T23:21:48 < BrainDamage> what's the advantage of using anaconda over normal virtualenvs?
2021-02-22T23:22:28 < mawk> karlp had one too many beers tonight
2021-02-22T23:22:39 < karlp> only just poured my first one.
2021-02-22T23:22:45 < karlp> kids gone to bed finally.
2021-02-22T23:23:11 < karlp> BrainDamage: to me? zero. only the ability to use sw that is not packaged for virtual envs, allegedly because "non python deps are too complicated"
2021-02-22T23:23:28 < karlp> so we just punt it all to some gross binary distribution scheme that wants to own everything
2021-02-22T23:23:41 < karlp> pycharm does seem to be very happy with conda shit at least.
2021-02-22T23:23:56 < karlp> lets get back to constructive modelling instead of tooling skullfuckery
2021-02-22T23:28:56 < BrainDamage> ok, that'd do even less for me, thanks
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2021-02-22T23:34:20 < karlp> you're welcome :)
2021-02-22T23:36:21 < ventyl> karlp: would you like to taste a 2.5k SLOC dessert?
2021-02-22T23:39:51 < karlp> with no context? I could just open github if I want to just look at random code.
2021-02-22T23:40:49 < Steffanx> I would ask Laurenceb for some of his code.
2021-02-22T23:41:22 < ventyl> then it will wait for you there :>
2021-02-22T23:50:43 < fluiD> I have added "HAL_TIM_OC_START_IT" and have added every callback I could find but none of them are called.
2021-02-22T23:52:16 < fluiD> How do I get an interrupt when the output compare matches?
2021-02-22T23:56:40 < Steffanx> Ive no clue how to do it in the cube/hal
2021-02-22T23:58:07 < Steffanx> Thats why I dislike HAL. You read a datasheet to figure out how to do x, and then you have to find the functions how to do it using the HAL. If you even can do it
2021-02-22T23:59:56 < qyx> yeah, configure the update interrupt to fire when the counter reaches 0 (ie. overflow)
2021-02-22T23:59:59 < qyx> thats your rising edge
--- Day changed Tue Feb 23 2021
2021-02-23T00:00:17 < qyx> and configure an compare output in pwm1 mode to generate your pulse
2021-02-23T00:00:38 < qyx> but idk how to do it in hal as Steffanx says
2021-02-23T00:01:18 < fluiD> It's HAL_TIM_PeriodElapsedCallback() for the overflow, I got that one working
2021-02-23T00:01:53 < qyx> or maybe the other way around, compare interrupt (rising edge) and pwm2 mode (the output is H until reload)
2021-02-23T00:02:50 < ventyl> qyx in english. available in dolby surround. so funny :)
2021-02-23T00:07:42 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/0dd0c875 whee
2021-02-23T00:09:51 < fluiD> oh this is weird. As long as I don't start the timer in interrupt mode, I can still call OC in interrupt mode and then the interrupt works
2021-02-23T00:09:52 < fluiD> wth
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2021-02-23T00:13:20 < fluiD> Do I need to rearm the interrupt??
2021-02-23T00:13:23 < fluiD> weird
2021-02-23T01:15:20 < mawk> I need a nice font for muh eink
2021-02-23T01:15:29 < mawk> it needs to be a bitmap font I think
2021-02-23T01:15:33 < mawk> I can't do cleartype type of shit
2021-02-23T01:15:43 < mawk> I took a 32×16 font from linux console
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2021-02-23T01:22:26 < fluiD> Is it normal for interrupts to be really slow to reset?
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2021-02-23T01:25:00 < aandrew> hm?
2021-02-23T01:25:04 < aandrew> how are you measuring that?
2021-02-23T01:32:40 < mawk> zyp: do you remember anything about OLD/NEW framebuffers in your screen?
2021-02-23T01:32:58 < mawk> there are 3 modes available: color, black&white OLD→NEW, black&white NEW
2021-02-23T01:33:05 < mawk> I can't get the latter two working
2021-02-23T01:33:17 < mawk> but I think they're kinda undocumented modes with only some hints of it in the datasheet
2021-02-23T01:33:29 < mawk> but I assume they would give less refresh time, at the expense of losing the red color
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2021-02-23T02:29:08 < fluiD> aandrew, with a logic analyzer. I have APB1 running at 40 mhz counting up to 3 and a output compare counting up to 1. That gives me a 10 mhz clock. If I throw in a pair of lines to toggle one of the other IO lines inside the interrupt, it takes about 20 counter cycles before the interrupt fires again.
2021-02-23T02:32:04 < mawk> is your LA fast enough
2021-02-23T02:33:46 < fluiD> 500 MSa/s
2021-02-23T02:34:08 < fluiD> I can clearly see the 10 MHz clock.
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2021-02-23T04:45:55 < kakium69> hello flex crew
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2021-02-23T05:26:52 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhl-Cs1-sG4 musics
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2021-02-23T05:51:24 < upgrdman> sup ee pros
2021-02-23T05:52:22 < upgrdman> yesterday i had to debate why using a 250V fuse on a 400VDC rail is a bad idea... so much wtf
2021-02-23T05:52:53 < upgrdman> 400Vdc 6A rail too... not some little toy
2021-02-23T05:54:00 < upgrdman> maybe i should ask that ee to stand next to his PCB while he shorts the rail to test the fuse
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2021-02-23T07:26:22 < jpa-> is "DPD" dutch for "delayed package delivery" or something? this must be the slowest tracked package i've seen
2021-02-23T07:26:38 < jpa-> it has now spent a whole week at "Oirschot"
2021-02-23T07:38:08 < effractur> yes
2021-02-23T07:38:11 < effractur> its dirt cheap
2021-02-23T07:38:14 < effractur> but slow
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2021-02-23T09:05:28 < Steffanx> Originally its german, jpa- 
2021-02-23T09:11:54 < qyx> fluiD: maybe it is the GPIO set routine taking some time?
2021-02-23T09:12:00 < qyx> I mean the pair of lines thrown in
2021-02-23T09:14:33 < qyx> also wut, 500 kHz interrupt rate is much more than I would expect
2021-02-23T09:40:46 < zyp> mawk, my screen? what my screen?
2021-02-23T09:41:03 < mawk> lol
2021-02-23T09:41:09 < mawk> the eink screen you played with
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2021-02-23T09:53:44 < zyp> I haven't played with an eink screen
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2021-02-23T10:05:40 < qyx> where's laurent when he is wanted
2021-02-23T10:06:53 < jpa-> busy shaking babies on his train
2021-02-23T10:55:16 < mawk> was it qyx then maybe
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2021-02-23T11:20:03 < karlp> jpa has done eink at least
2021-02-23T11:22:48 < jadew> I'm about to do the customs proceedings for some samples, and pay more than the samples are worth, for something coming from the UK
2021-02-23T11:23:00 < jadew> (US company with a branch in the UK)
2021-02-23T11:23:10 < jadew> I wonder how long it will take them to relocate into the EU
2021-02-23T11:38:15 < jpa-> why more than samples are worth?
2021-02-23T11:38:25 < jpa-> i can see that you would have to pay VAT, but that wouldn't be more than the value
2021-02-23T11:38:59 < zyp> handling fees costing more than the VAT itself? not unheard of here
2021-02-23T11:59:03 < jpa-> here the consumer protection agency decided that delivery companies cannot just slap on huge handling fees so it is a couple of euros at most; at least for now they seem to have followed the same pricing for business imports also
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2021-02-23T12:26:14 < karlp> if only our consumer groups were stronger
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2021-02-23T13:06:19 < Laurenceb> muh hyperloooooppp
2021-02-23T13:06:28 < Laurenceb> hyperloop crew have some mad plans
2021-02-23T13:06:43 < Laurenceb> >using audio transformers to drive strain gauge bridges
2021-02-23T13:06:56 < Laurenceb> >then signal transformer to amplify the output
2021-02-23T13:09:53 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56159731
2021-02-23T13:11:49 < Laurenceb> this might even work
2021-02-23T13:15:56 < qyx> is there any particular reason for it?
2021-02-23T13:17:46 < Laurenceb> really bad EMI and ESD environment
2021-02-23T13:18:11 < Laurenceb> the bridges will be driven with 10kHz ac or so
2021-02-23T13:18:40 < qyx> oh btw
2021-02-23T13:18:42 < Laurenceb> there are signal transformers with mu metal cases and primary to secondary screens, so this might work very well tbh
2021-02-23T13:18:58 < qyx> don't you remember if balloonists did any tests with LiSOCl2 cells?
2021-02-23T13:19:10 < Laurenceb> are those primary?
2021-02-23T13:19:16 < qyx> yes
2021-02-23T13:19:41 < qyx> I remember something about not being able to feed the gps
2021-02-23T13:19:43 < Laurenceb> hmm I dunno, everyone uses energizer ultimate lithium for primary cells
2021-02-23T13:20:27 < qyx> I have some saft cells here
2021-02-23T13:20:30 < qyx> they are behaving good
2021-02-23T13:20:36 < Laurenceb> not sure what the chemistry is, but it works so well there is no need for anything else
2021-02-23T13:20:50 < qyx> except when continuously drawing > 50 mA
2021-02-23T13:20:54 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-23T13:21:07 < qyx> voltage drops to about 2.5 V in a minute or so
2021-02-23T13:21:21 < qyx> so i am not being able to obtain a fix during cold start
2021-02-23T13:21:42 < Laurenceb> with energizer lithium?
2021-02-23T13:21:47 < qyx> they are ok with hot start which is about 6-8 s at 50 mA
2021-02-23T13:21:52 < qyx> no, with saft ls14500
2021-02-23T13:21:55 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-02-23T13:22:10 < qyx> I could try energizers, but less energy density
2021-02-23T13:22:35 < jpa-> i've used LS14500, it has pretty terrible internal resistance
2021-02-23T13:22:42 < qyx> this one has about 10 Wh in a 14500 cylinder
2021-02-23T13:22:49 < Laurenceb> wait
2021-02-23T13:22:57 < Laurenceb> yeah we tried LiSOCl2
2021-02-23T13:23:07 < Laurenceb> it had shit internal resistance lol
2021-02-23T13:23:14 < qyx> ty
2021-02-23T13:23:17 < qyx> too late
2021-02-23T13:23:20 < jpa-> i switched to LiFePO4 because of the internal resistance
2021-02-23T13:23:24 < Laurenceb> yeah this was in early days of ballooning
2021-02-23T13:23:33 < Laurenceb> we ruled it out as it was never going to work
2021-02-23T13:24:15 < jpa-> and it gets even worse in low temperatures
2021-02-23T13:24:39 < Laurenceb> yeah, they are good for smoke alarms, but not much else
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2021-02-23T13:27:00 < qyx> there are some compromises I can still make
2021-02-23T13:27:23 < qyx> eg. avoiding active antenna with LNA, which saves about half of the current
2021-02-23T13:28:06 < jpa-> can the gps module pause and continue cold fix?
2021-02-23T13:28:12 < jpa-> you could give the battery time to recover
2021-02-23T13:28:50 < Laurenceb> prob not
2021-02-23T13:28:54 < Laurenceb> too much clk drift
2021-02-23T13:36:04 < qyx> I can test easily
2021-02-23T13:41:59 < jpa-> IIRC most of the time in cold fix is spent downloading the almanac; if it can save partially downloaded almanac, it would allow some possibility of pausing
2021-02-23T13:42:29 < jpa-> clock does drift between pauses, but it would still be faster to re-fix than on the first boot, especially if the interval is only a few minutes
2021-02-23T13:43:09 < qyx> I am doing a test with 10 s on, 60 s off
2021-02-23T13:45:00 < qyx> so the energizer is Li/FeS2
2021-02-23T13:46:52 < qyx> and about 5.5 Wh which is only a half
2021-02-23T13:51:33 < Laurenceb> jpa-: thats called a warm fix aiui
2021-02-23T13:51:55 < Laurenceb> if you battery back a ublox is usually locks in <10s even if its been off for a day or two
2021-02-23T13:53:08 < jpa-> Laurenceb: sure
2021-02-23T13:53:30 < jpa-> but if first cold fix is not fully completed, what will the next fix be like
2021-02-23T13:53:59 < Laurenceb> hmm I've never tried that
2021-02-23T13:53:59 < jpa-> after all it will first acquire rough timing for one satellite (whichever it finds first), and even that will speed up the next fix *if* it can store that information
2021-02-23T13:55:08 < qyx> the time accuracy is < 1 ms already
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2021-02-23T14:03:40 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-02-23T14:04:05 < Laurenceb> pwm->op am bandpass ->audio amp ic ->audio transformer ->gauge bridges
2021-02-23T14:04:24 < Laurenceb> then bridge outputs -> signal transformers ->ADC
2021-02-23T14:04:41 < Laurenceb> this is quite mental but should work
2021-02-23T14:04:59 < jpa-> no lock-in amplifier?
2021-02-23T14:05:26 < jpa-> (well, could be in software)
2021-02-23T14:06:35 < Laurenceb> yeah software lock in
2021-02-23T14:07:15 < Laurenceb> also spark gaps between grounds
2021-02-23T14:20:59 < bitmask> hmm, someone buy me a diffusion pump
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2021-02-23T14:27:34 < Steffanx> Biden money will buy it, bitmask
2021-02-23T14:27:48 < bitmask> heh trufs
2021-02-23T14:30:32 < Steffanx> Is he giving away free money as well bitmask?
2021-02-23T14:32:53 < bitmask> yea, should be another $1400
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2021-02-23T14:53:52 < invzim> pros, which designator do you use for a pot?
2021-02-23T14:54:37 < zyp> VR is common
2021-02-23T14:59:21 < jpa-> i use RV because that's what kicad does by default
2021-02-23T15:00:44 < invzim> vr it is then :)
2021-02-23T15:01:10 < invzim> may have to have another poke at kicad once 6 is out
2021-02-23T15:15:25 < bitmask> Steffanx this meter is awesome
2021-02-23T15:19:33 < fenugrec> I heard it's as big as a small car
2021-02-23T15:27:13 < bitmask> :)
2021-02-23T15:39:30 < jadew> what meter?
2021-02-23T15:41:34 < jadew> bitmask, what did you get?
2021-02-23T15:46:12 < Steffanx> Bm869s
2021-02-23T15:48:55 < bitmask> yup
2021-02-23T15:57:45 < jadew> ah, it's cool, I have the 867
2021-02-23T15:58:20 < jadew> didn't need the thermometer functionality, cuz I can always make one :P
2021-02-23T16:00:11 < Steffanx> Can you? Im not convinced anymore 
2021-02-23T16:00:45 < jadew> didn't I make one last year?
2021-02-23T16:03:57 < jadew> looks like I did: http://5.12.173.150/stuff/20201009_223210.jpg
2021-02-23T16:04:21 < jadew> now I have a proper chinese one, so I don't need a thermometer anyway
2021-02-23T16:06:12 < jadew> lol, bitcoin went down by 10%
2021-02-23T16:07:15 < jadew> if it crashes, it takes tesla with it
2021-02-23T16:07:17 < zyp> and?
2021-02-23T16:07:42 < zyp> 10% is hardly a lot considering bitcoin's volatility
2021-02-23T16:08:57 < jadew> that's why it's useless
2021-02-23T16:11:54 < jpa-> i doubt that the people who buy tesla at the exorbitant P/E would care much where bitcoin goes
2021-02-23T16:16:38 < jadew> well, if bitcoin goes to 0, then tesla just lost 1.5 billion dollars
2021-02-23T16:18:22 < jadew> tesla stock is 7% down right now (pre market open)
2021-02-23T16:18:27 < zyp> speaking of cars, Ioniq 5 looks nice
2021-02-23T16:22:31 < jpa-> jadew: so, with a market capitalization of 685 billion, shouldn't it be just 0.2% drop on tesla stock?
2021-02-23T16:23:09 < jpa-> (though, tesla price is really pure speculation, no rationality involved)
2021-02-23T16:23:17 < jadew> jpa-, it will affect their revenue
2021-02-23T16:23:39 < jadew> which is supposedly what the stock price is based on, except tesla doesn't pay dividends
2021-02-23T16:23:45 < jpa-> bitcoin does not seem like an asset that generates revenue
2021-02-23T16:23:47 < jadew> it's a ponzi stock to begin with
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2021-02-23T16:29:14 < Laurenceb> arggg wtf
2021-02-23T16:29:23 < Laurenceb> hyperloop guys are making my head hurt
2021-02-23T16:30:32 < Laurenceb> >It is not the CMRR, as the common mode current flows through the transducer, it generates a couple of mV offset in the strain gauges. These “common mode” pulses (which are already differential pulses by then) then get amplified/rectified in the first stages of the opamp
2021-02-23T16:30:51 < Laurenceb> this makes about as much sense as qanon
2021-02-23T16:32:44 < englishman> zyp: try it before you buy it
2021-02-23T16:33:03 < englishman> those korean cars are like 1/3 of the base tesla model 3 and like 95% of the price
2021-02-23T16:33:13 < Laurenceb> reads like technobabble from a scifi movie
2021-02-23T16:33:44 < englishman> i tried every other electric car available in q4 2019 and they didnt even come close
2021-02-23T16:34:03 < zyp> englishman, how so? to me it looks like most of a model Y at 80% of the price
2021-02-23T16:34:33 < englishman> on the marketing sheet sure
2021-02-23T16:35:17 < Laurenceb> wait I worked it out
2021-02-23T16:35:26 < englishman> i found they were all noisy, slow, cramped and with a million buttons on an entirely plastic interior with no coherence or thought of usability
2021-02-23T16:35:33 < Laurenceb> to get strain bridge to work we reverse the polarity then set phasors to stun
2021-02-23T16:35:38 < englishman> even the TACC was a joke, and the lane keeping even worse
2021-02-23T16:36:01 < englishman> fast charging was slow, the apps beyond terrible
2021-02-23T16:36:45 < zyp> I'm not really interested in cars that were available in 2019 :)
2021-02-23T16:40:34 < englishman> oh, we had the ioniq here
2021-02-23T16:40:52 < zyp> the ioniq 5 is the new model that was unveiled today
2021-02-23T16:41:02 < zyp> not talking about the old one from 2016 :)
2021-02-23T16:41:56 < zyp> although my impression is that the old ioniq was a pretty good deal in 2016
2021-02-23T16:47:37  * qyx ordering vaping batteries
2021-02-23T16:47:55 < qyx> vapcell inr14500, sounds legit
2021-02-23T16:49:00 < jadew> tesla is down 12%
2021-02-23T16:49:03 < jadew> today
2021-02-23T16:49:07 < zyp> englishman, in my impression the bad parts of ordering a hyundai is that it takes forever to get it
2021-02-23T16:49:24 < zyp> happened with the old ioniq, happened with the kona
2021-02-23T16:50:08 < zyp> but idk
2021-02-23T16:50:47 < zyp> I haven't budgeted for a new car just yet, so I'll have a chance to test drive all the new models coming this year
2021-02-23T16:51:35 < qyx> you can invest in some norway land with sheep
2021-02-23T16:52:18 < qyx> or a small/micro hydro and sell the electricity
2021-02-23T16:53:29 < zyp> or just solar on the roof
2021-02-23T16:53:53 < qyx> yeah but thats your monthyl income
2021-02-23T16:58:44 < ventyl> poor 2020's car owners
2021-02-23T17:04:45 < englishman> > Microchip gave everyone until end of February to place orders or no supply was guaranteed.
2021-02-23T17:20:23 < BrainDamage> in the future we'll all be employed by The Semiconductor company
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2021-02-23T17:21:23 < jadew> depends who you talk to...
2021-02-23T17:22:03 < jadew> according to some socialists, The Semiconductor company will be so efficient, it won't need any employees, so we're all going to be out of jobs and The Semiconductor company out of customers
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2021-02-23T17:47:53 < BrainDamage> that's fully automated comunism fwiw
2021-02-23T17:48:18 < BrainDamage> an insane theory as old as marx himself, when he befriended I forgot who
2021-02-23T17:50:22 < ventyl> engels?
2021-02-23T17:52:34 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-02-23T17:56:46 < englishman> luckily for us, keynes was right
2021-02-23T17:57:20 < Laurenceb> fully automated space communism
2021-02-23T17:58:55 < Laurenceb> islamic mars rover: lands without exploding but then explodes anyway cuz its a VBIED
2021-02-23T17:59:36 < qyx> did it?
2021-02-23T17:59:42  * Laurenceb tried to resist urge to edit nasa landing video with nasheeeds and isis flags
2021-02-23T17:59:46 < qyx> wait woaht
2021-02-23T17:59:51 < qyx> what was the other rover landing recently?
2021-02-23T18:00:09 < BrainDamage> yesterday
2021-02-23T18:00:19 < qyx> not that recently
2021-02-23T18:00:32 < Laurenceb> v impressive video
2021-02-23T18:00:39  * qyx checking list of mars rovers
2021-02-23T18:00:43 < Laurenceb> the engines are rather boring
2021-02-23T18:00:56 < Laurenceb> just look like leaf blowers under mars conditions
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2021-02-23T18:33:07 < Laurenceb> holy shit wtfffff
2021-02-23T18:33:17 < Laurenceb> hyperloop crew going rage mode
2021-02-23T18:33:44 < Laurenceb> I questioned if it was a good idea to inject 10A/motor at 100kHz into the chassis
2021-02-23T18:34:00 < Laurenceb> >its okay cuz thats only 10% of the motor current
2021-02-23T18:34:41 < Laurenceb> moar liek electric chair loop
2021-02-23T18:35:29 < Laurenceb> >coil to stator capacitance is high, nothing can be done about this
2021-02-23T18:35:33 < BrainDamage> don't worry, a thin layer of paint will insulate you
2021-02-23T18:35:43 < Laurenceb> lol what could go wrong
2021-02-23T18:36:00 < Laurenceb> almost as if there is another place where a thin layer of paint could be placed....
2021-02-23T18:36:10 < Laurenceb> like I dunno, maybe around the stator
2021-02-23T18:36:55 < ventyl> > we want you to design a test case, where our test engineer can disconnect this battery pack (800V) under full load (~100A)
2021-02-23T18:37:10 < ventyl> > do you have enough disposable test engineers?
2021-02-23T18:37:10 < Laurenceb> also their shitty inverter  outputs way more noise than it needs to
2021-02-23T18:37:14 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-23T18:37:21 < Laurenceb> sounds hyperloop tier
2021-02-23T18:37:38 < ventyl> generic automotive creep
2021-02-23T18:38:02 < Laurenceb> they have a 1kV battery for a test vehicle, with no safety features...
2021-02-23T18:38:13 < Laurenceb> >just wear wellies lmao
2021-02-23T18:38:23 < ventyl> that sounds pretty much as what we did
2021-02-23T18:38:41 < ventyl> battery management system was just a RasPi taking care of the whole stuff not catching in fire
2021-02-23T18:38:54 < Laurenceb> inb4 ventyl is a hyperloop guy operating undercover
2021-02-23T18:39:01 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2021-02-23T18:39:07 < Laurenceb> >RasPi
2021-02-23T18:39:12 < Laurenceb> hyperloop confirmed
2021-02-23T18:40:46 < Laurenceb>  "a script on this page is busy or has stopped working"
2021-02-23T18:40:51 < Laurenceb> fuck u javashit
2021-02-23T18:41:03 < Laurenceb> lets go back to flash, at least it worked
2021-02-23T18:42:46 < ventyl> unfortunately stuff I've been working on is out the in the wild
2021-02-23T18:43:09 < ventyl> s/the/there/
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2021-02-23T19:56:17 < karlp> no flash didn't, it did the same thing, ran a cpu to 100% and had no escape, because the browser just lwas like, "running the native code you wanted, no idea if it's useful.  hope you'r eok with that"
2021-02-23T20:05:00 < ventyl> and had a rather large can of bugs ready for use in it's possession
2021-02-23T20:06:25 < jpa-> i find it silly how many websites nowadays have javascript background images that take up 100% cpu.. like https://www.keyelco.com/ or https://laserweb.yurl.ch/
2021-02-23T20:07:22 < ventyl> well, you can still browse most of the internets with javascript disabled
2021-02-23T20:07:28 < karlp> haha
2021-02-23T20:07:31 < ventyl> more/less
2021-02-23T20:07:45  * karlp clones kicad.git and wonders how much he's going to regret this.
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2021-02-23T20:08:41 < jpa-> deeply clones?
2021-02-23T20:08:56 < karlp> no, just whether I really want to look at this code at all.
2021-02-23T20:09:32 < jpa-> i have browsed it a few times, it is not terrible
2021-02-23T20:12:47 < karlp> I suspect my bug is easily fixable, from inspection, but I'd like to get some debug output to find out
2021-02-23T20:15:27 < karlp> what's a few more -devel pacakges between friends...
2021-02-23T20:24:01 < leibniz[m]> So anyone here uses mechanical keyboards or are they considered a meme?
2021-02-23T20:24:51 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: I'm typing on one right now. Can't say I really understand why it can make any sense, I just wanted a split keyboard.
2021-02-23T20:24:53 < fenugrec> leibniz[m], I did, enjoyed the nice positive feedback and didn't mind the noise
2021-02-23T20:25:34 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: and it's based on stm32f303, so related to the chan topic.
2021-02-23T20:25:55 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: Split keyboard helps the hands reducing less pain?
2021-02-23T20:26:03 < leibniz[m]> QMK firmware?
2021-02-23T20:26:16 < karlp> I used to, hated the noise, didn't feel the feedback was any better than I had before, and didn't feel I was more accurate on it either.
2021-02-23T20:26:24 < fenugrec> but went back to a dome kb due to wrist/elbow issues (not caused by mech kb, but it didn't help)
2021-02-23T20:26:26 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: qmk, yes, and I find the flexibility it gives rather nice. I also use mouse emulation on it.
2021-02-23T20:26:36 < englishman> looks like a lot of what goes on at Photonics West will be public this year, for anyone interested
2021-02-23T20:26:41 < fenugrec> karlp can be inaccurate on any kind of kb : )
2021-02-23T20:27:09 < karlp> sure, but I actually do feel I'm making less errors on my new keyboard than I was on the mech
2021-02-23T20:27:21 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: split keyboard because I just wanted more freedom in locating my hands, not that I have a need to reduce wrist pain or anything like that.
2021-02-23T20:27:28 < karlp> it's arguable that the orings I was using on it to _try_ and reduce the noise didn't help?
2021-02-23T20:27:49 < PaulFertser> I'm using "tactile" low profile switches, they're not particularly loud.
2021-02-23T20:28:15 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: the *thing* about mechs is the noise feedback?
2021-02-23T20:28:15 < karlp> I actually really like the keys on this thing I have now.  I'd kinda like abit more spacing, I dont need the f-keys and pageup/down stuff to be smashed up beside everything else, but still
2021-02-23T20:28:33 < karlp> leibniz[m]:well, it's the mechanical feedback, but tht comes with noise...
2021-02-23T20:28:37 < karlp> don't let anyone tell you otherwise
2021-02-23T20:28:38 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: not for me
2021-02-23T20:28:52 < karlp> a cherry brown is "quieter" than a cherry blue, but it's still fucking loud
2021-02-23T20:29:06 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: I think you were an EMACS guy so a custom key placement def helps...
2021-02-23T20:29:20 < fenugrec> leibniz[m], the force-distance characteristic is much different from a dome. Idea is your fingers "know' when a key is registered, vs a mushy pad eg
2021-02-23T20:29:31 < ventyl> depends. i also have some type of switches, which should be less noisy and they are not *that* noisy. especially they pick up keystroke after much shorter travell than you need to bottom it completely
2021-02-23T20:29:47 < ventyl> so you can learn to just gently touch keys and type really silently
2021-02-23T20:29:48 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: yes, I prefer Emacs, but I actually do not edit files much lately, and what I did was all in vi.
2021-02-23T20:29:56 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, what's your split kb model ?
2021-02-23T20:30:16 < ventyl> yet, despite the fact, that this keyboard advertises n-key rollover I have weird typing errors which are either at Linux side, or caused by wrong key pickup
2021-02-23T20:30:55 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: using these gerbers: https://github.com/nicolai86/ganymede/tree/master/rev3 but I have no cool case for it, just some shitty "trays" I modelled in FreeCAD.
2021-02-23T20:31:20 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: wow...like a true professional...
2021-02-23T20:31:28 < fenugrec> oh geez you went all-in eh
2021-02-23T20:31:36 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: it's called "autist wanker" on this channel
2021-02-23T20:31:38 < leibniz[m]> thanks or existing paul :D
2021-02-23T20:31:42 < leibniz[m]> *for
2021-02-23T20:33:14 < leibniz[m]> The angles on that repo, is the wrong side for wrist...I think the natural inclination should be downwards
2021-02-23T20:33:30 < PaulFertser> That's not my project, I just used his gerbers and (awful) BOM. Assembling was a pain too because he shared no pcb files and left part has misplaced designators on silk.
2021-02-23T20:34:07 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: it's all adjustable though, and also depends on wether you use additional pads, how high is your chair etc
2021-02-23T20:35:43 < fenugrec> I don't get those "minimalist" kb with 47-60 keys. No numbers, garbage layout
2021-02-23T20:36:24 < leibniz[m]> fenugrec: yeah...I was just viewing /r/mechkey and half of the posts are 60% layout with crayon colors
2021-02-23T20:36:33 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: for a 40 % keyboard ability to add custom handling in qmk is really nice. E.g. I often use Alt+numbers and AltGr+numbers, so I made a tweak that makes the top row emit numbers when alt (and no other mods) is pressed.
2021-02-23T20:36:53 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I'm not sure I miss numbers that much.
2021-02-23T20:37:03 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: is it USB? 
2021-02-23T20:37:10 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: yes
2021-02-23T20:38:04 < PaulFertser> Oh, and that odd nicolai guy didn't route out SWD, what a shame, I had hard time digging QMK initially.
2021-02-23T20:38:18 < PaulFertser> Would be so much easier if SWD was available.
2021-02-23T20:38:21 < leibniz[m]> Is there a project that integrates a SBC inside the keyboard? I know of that RPi one, other than that...
2021-02-23T20:38:50 < fenugrec> that's starting to sound like the definition of a laptop
2021-02-23T20:38:54 < fenugrec> minus a screen
2021-02-23T20:38:57 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: there are a few other designs more popular than that...why u went with that repo?
2021-02-23T20:39:11 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: the only split arm I could find
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2021-02-23T20:39:47 < PaulFertser> All other projects I saw were using AVR.
2021-02-23T20:39:58 < PaulFertser> atmega32u or some filth like that.
2021-02-23T20:40:01 < leibniz[m]> https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/ergodox_ez
2021-02-23T20:40:16 < PaulFertser> It's not available for self-manufacture it seems.
2021-02-23T20:40:21 < leibniz[m]> qmk site got a couple of splits
2021-02-23T20:40:29 < PaulFertser> Yes, but no gerbers?
2021-02-23T20:41:01 < PaulFertser> I wanted something cheap to try if I like the approach at all.
2021-02-23T20:41:05 < leibniz[m]> oh, I didn't check..thought all pcb files were also open
2021-02-23T20:42:18 < leibniz[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDozftThFMw
2021-02-23T20:42:20 < PaulFertser> Probably they actually do provide everything needed and I was just silly. Quite probably so.
2021-02-23T20:42:50 < leibniz[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQAw4kYNIE
2021-02-23T20:43:04 < leibniz[m]> The latter uses LIGHT mechanism!
2021-02-23T20:43:12 < leibniz[m]> optics I mean
2021-02-23T20:44:12 < PaulFertser> Old ergodox is based on teensy 2.0, so avr too. Ergodox EZ is probably not available.
2021-02-23T20:46:08 < zyp> leibniz[m], what would it be if not usb?
2021-02-23T20:46:18 < PaulFertser> https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards
2021-02-23T20:46:21 < PaulFertser> zyp: BT
2021-02-23T20:46:28 < zyp> ah
2021-02-23T20:47:47 < leibniz[m]> zyp: Actually I wanted to ask about latency since there is a limit that one can reach within usb specs...but said whatever...
2021-02-23T20:47:47 < leibniz[m]> BT would be even worse I think
2021-02-23T20:48:05 < leibniz[m]> the old keyboard interface was better in this aspect
2021-02-23T20:48:14 < zyp> no, it was not
2021-02-23T20:48:18 < leibniz[m]> I forgot its name...PS2 I think
2021-02-23T20:48:32 < PaulFertser> It was like 2400 or something :)
2021-02-23T20:48:58 < PaulFertser> https://wiki.osdev.org/PS/2
2021-02-23T20:49:11 < zyp> PS/2 is 10kbaud or something and IIRC a keystroke is three bytes
2021-02-23T20:49:19 < PaulFertser> baud rate of 10 KHz to 16.7 KHz
2021-02-23T20:49:33 < zyp> in that time a FS USB keyboard has time to signal three full updates :)
2021-02-23T20:49:37 < ventyl> and keystroke is anywere from two do a dozen bytes
2021-02-23T20:49:49 < ventyl> to*
2021-02-23T20:51:03 < leibniz[m]> wait are you sure? I remember I read somewhere that PS/2 was better...maybe it interrupted CPU?
2021-02-23T20:51:30 < zyp> there's a lot of misconceptions about USB vs PS/2
2021-02-23T20:53:09 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: I mean by this time, doctors should have found the optimum design of keyboards...what the hell everyone is doing?
2021-02-23T20:53:43 < t4nk_freenode> haven't read the history.. but I got a ps/2 keyboard hooked up to a bluepill right here ;)
2021-02-23T20:54:00 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: people are different, and usecases are different. There's no thing that's optimum for everybody.
2021-02-23T20:54:20 < leibniz[m]> PaulFertser: people's hand anatomy are kinda the same
2021-02-23T20:54:30 < zyp> the short story is that many USB keyboards have 6-key rollover and a 125kHz report rate, and this is a limitation stemming from LS USB
2021-02-23T20:54:55 < leibniz[m]> t4nk_freenode: nice 
2021-02-23T20:54:57 < catphish> what does rollover have to do with USB?
2021-02-23T20:55:24 < leibniz[m]> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards/master/img/Dactyl.jpg
2021-02-23T20:55:28 < t4nk_freenode> I think that is just a convention, the 6
2021-02-23T20:55:39 < t4nk_freenode> doesn't get decided by the keyboard
2021-02-23T20:55:44 < zyp> catphish, LS USB is limited to 8-byte packets, and the defacto HID keyboard report structure is an array of six keys plus a bitfield of modifiers
2021-02-23T20:56:05 < catphish> oh, they send the complete list of pressed keys in every update?
2021-02-23T20:56:07 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: I once changed the handlebar angle a little bit on my motor bike. And a month later my left hand started to ache seriously. It took me quite some time to understand why, and also how and where I should massage the arm to get rid of that wrist pain. Go figure...
2021-02-23T20:56:11 < zyp> catphish, yes
2021-02-23T20:56:28 < catphish> zyp: that makes sense then
2021-02-23T20:56:38 < catphish> 8 bytes per packet seems crazy now
2021-02-23T20:56:58 < zyp> LS USB is crazy now, you won't find a MCU with a device controller supporting it :)
2021-02-23T20:57:21 < t4nk_freenode> 11bits get sent from keyb to host, 12bits when host communicates with keyboard
2021-02-23T20:57:50 < zyp> any keyboard based on a modern MCU would be FS USB and can do up to 64 byte packets
2021-02-23T20:58:25 < zyp> so you could e.g. use it for a 64 byte long array of pressed keys, or just send a 512 key bitmap :)
2021-02-23T20:58:44 < PaulFertser> leibniz[m]: and it is literally arm, i.e. "upper arm" that needed the mechanical treatment to fix the _wrist_ pain.
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2021-02-23T21:38:15 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/l1hvTcm.png
2021-02-23T21:38:17 < bitmask> :P
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2021-02-23T21:44:31 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, bitmask ... I like my 3d printer too :) https://postimg.cc/y3zYNN8X
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2021-02-23T21:46:35 < bitmask> :)
2021-02-23T21:46:46 < Laurenceb> arggg wtf hyperloop
2021-02-23T21:46:50 < Laurenceb> >suck my granny
2021-02-23T21:46:54 < bitmask> i would like to get a umm wtf is it called, the sheet metal bender
2021-02-23T21:46:57 < Laurenceb> thats the email
2021-02-23T21:46:59 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-02-23T21:47:22 < bitmask> a brake
2021-02-23T21:48:17 < t4nk_freenode> heh, too bad I really don't have the space available.. what I'd like is to pour my own metal
2021-02-23T21:48:28 < t4nk_freenode> and then machine it with a diy cnc
2021-02-23T21:49:26 < bitmask> i cant either, no space as well
2021-02-23T21:49:44 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, really too bad... it would be awesome ;)
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2021-02-23T21:51:23 < Laurenceb> >flyback works on hyperloop
2021-02-23T21:51:42 < Laurenceb> I wonder what happened to flyback, havent seen him online since ~2017
2021-02-23T21:53:04 < mawk> he was here recently
2021-02-23T21:53:15 < mawk> you just were banned 80% of the time so you missed him
2021-02-23T21:53:25 < mawk> he's on ##security ##electronics a bunch other
2021-02-23T21:53:29 < mawk> but he's alcoholic
2021-02-23T21:53:36 < mawk> he's drunk everyday typing shit and getting bannee
2021-02-23T21:53:38 < mawk> banned
2021-02-23T21:53:48 < mawk> I think anyway, maybe I mistake him for another drunk nick
2021-02-23T21:54:37 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-23T21:54:48 < Laurenceb> I thought maybe he an herod after drumpf lost
2021-02-23T21:55:59 < mawk> lol
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2021-02-23T21:56:31 < mawk> boB_K7IQ = R2COM
2021-02-23T21:56:50 < Laurenceb> >IQ
2021-02-23T21:56:57 < mawk> lol
2021-02-23T21:57:49 < mawk> be an hero Laurenceb 
2021-02-23T21:57:58 < mawk> you'll get 77 virgins in heaven
2021-02-23T21:58:10 < mawk> you'll sit to the right of our Holy Father Trump
2021-02-23T21:58:12 < t4nk_freenode> bitmask, .. btw.. you did fashion that lever yourself, right?
2021-02-23T21:59:21 < t4nk_freenode> I had sth like that in mind myself when I set out to develop some switches
2021-02-23T21:59:41 < t4nk_freenode> but I wasn't convinced I could make it snug enough
2021-02-23T22:00:30 < fenugrec> kb fanatics are a long way past sanity : https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginny-heavy
2021-02-23T22:00:58 < t4nk_freenode> but I managed to design some nice spring loaded flip switches after all
2021-02-23T22:01:04 < mawk> bohemian rhapsody, but slightly arranged: https://youtu.be/KzzG5ICVUbw
2021-02-23T22:13:51 < t4nk_freenode> lol, btw bitmask ... I had the exact same feeling when I had to bend my metal strips... 'if only I had a machine to do this properly'
2021-02-23T22:16:14 < bitmask> haha no I didnt make the level although I should have
2021-02-23T22:16:20 < bitmask> lever*
2021-02-23T22:16:44 < bitmask> i got it on ebay
2021-02-23T22:17:08 < bitmask> I just cut and drilled a copper bus bar for the three contact plates
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2021-02-23T23:04:01 < Steffanx> dont blow it bitmask 
2021-02-23T23:04:41 < bitmask> who am I blowing?
2021-02-23T23:04:43 < bitmask> I mean what?
2021-02-23T23:05:01 < Steffanx> lol i just saw your 3d printed thingy
2021-02-23T23:05:26 < bitmask> heh, it may explode
2021-02-23T23:05:30 < bitmask> at least it will be outside
2021-02-23T23:07:36 < bitmask> crimping the cables now, lugs always sketch me out (when I do em myself)
2021-02-23T23:12:02 < englishman> lol fenugrec 
2021-02-23T23:12:37 < englishman> - For best results, spray it down with WD-40 before use.
2021-02-23T23:12:46 < englishman> for perfect greasy hacker hands
2021-02-23T23:20:58 < bitmask> heh check out this cable
2021-02-23T23:20:58 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/hI28EML.jpg
2021-02-23T23:22:01 < fenugrec> yeah, that kind of laser-cut coldrolled steel rusts fast if you touch it a lot
2021-02-23T23:22:02 < qyx> is there anything uncommon?
2021-02-23T23:31:17 < Steffanx> Wonderful bitmask 
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2021-02-23T23:31:31 < bitmask> thanks for humoring me
2021-02-23T23:36:07 < Steffanx> Yw. Are you happy with the crimp?
2021-02-23T23:36:28 < fenugrec> I don't think it respects minimum bend radius requirements
2021-02-23T23:36:40 < bitmask> its fine
2021-02-23T23:36:49 < fenugrec> heh. Pull-tested ?
2021-02-23T23:36:57 < bitmask> yea, should be enough :P
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2021-02-24T01:02:31 < fluiD> Have I ever told you how much I love you guys?
2021-02-24T01:05:03 < Laurenceb> anyone know how to fix firefox session restore?
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2021-02-24T01:16:29 < Laurenceb> theres a archived session file somewhere right?
2021-02-24T01:18:13 < R2COM> jebus
2021-02-24T01:18:21 < R2COM> the ltspice is the worst simulator on planet
2021-02-24T01:19:08 < karlp> why are you even using it?
2021-02-24T01:19:19 < karlp> you were hating on it before, sayign how this other spice is so much better
2021-02-24T01:20:46 < englishman> maybe he shot the other one
2021-02-24T01:22:20 < fluiD> it's not terrible
2021-02-24T01:22:34 < karlp> he was just here crowing about some awesome spicec that was free now...
2021-02-24T01:22:43 < karlp> also, 500GB ssd is too small again :(
2021-02-24T01:23:05  * karlp goes to vaktin.is
2021-02-24T01:23:48 < karlp> hrm, definitely can't justify 2TB ssd.
2021-02-24T01:24:24 < karlp> hrm, can't justify going back to sata ssd either...
2021-02-24T01:25:17 < fenugrec> I'm just happy I just went from 300 HD to 500G SSD . 500MB/s is plenty.
2021-02-24T01:25:41 < ventyl> i went from 64GB to 500GB :>
2021-02-24T01:25:49 < ventyl> astrophotography can be quite demanding
2021-02-24T01:25:49 < karlp> debug build of kicad is 7GB
2021-02-24T01:26:24 < fluiD> ventyl, oh! What kind of astrophotography are you doing?
2021-02-24T01:26:47 < ventyl> whichever I can do with my crappy equipment and opensource stacker
2021-02-24T01:28:11 < ventyl> I have to learn how Siril works, then I will maybe produce something more interesting than "meh, stars" AP
2021-02-24T01:29:26 < fluiD> I did that for a bit. Expensive hobby.
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2021-02-24T01:30:26 < ventyl> well, i have everything required for entry-level astrophotography. DSLR and wide range of rather good pieces of glass which are rather sharp open wide
2021-02-24T01:30:36 < ventyl> no scope here yet, those are quite expensive
2021-02-24T01:31:23 < ventyl> the problem was that deep sky stacker sometimes produced questionable output if ran on Wine
2021-02-24T01:31:43 < fluiD> that doesn't sound good
2021-02-24T01:32:33 < ventyl> there was no other stacker usable on linux than exposit, but that one was extremely slow
2021-02-24T01:32:39 < machinehum> uint8_t test = bool << 7 == 80?
2021-02-24T01:32:42 < ventyl> so I stared hacking it
2021-02-24T01:32:54 < machinehum> Can you shift a bool shove it in an int fine
2021-02-24T01:33:16 < machinehum> Or is that bad... shouldn't the bool get promoted to a uint8_t... or whatever it's going to end up in
2021-02-24T01:33:49 < ventyl> machinehum: that probably won't compile at all as bool is a type and you cant shift types around... as a matter of fact
2021-02-24T01:33:49 < karlp> heh, not what I was looking for... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STEP_Library
2021-02-24T01:34:25 < karlp> machinehum: wat, why.
2021-02-24T01:34:35 < ventyl> fluiD: I ended up breaking registering algorithm completely. it was so bound to shitty data representation that I had to drop it and write it from scratch. and it didn't work
2021-02-24T01:34:59 < ventyl> fluiD: It took me several years to figure out where the problem was and meanwhile Siril emerged
2021-02-24T01:35:22 < machinehum> karlp: lol idk. I guess I can make it not dumb.
2021-02-24T01:35:35 < machinehum> ventyl: Compiles fine, getting a linting warning
2021-02-24T01:35:46 < machinehum> I'll just change it to not dumb fine
2021-02-24T01:36:04 < ventyl> i probably don't want to know
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2021-02-24T01:36:22 < karlp> machinehum: I _think_ but don't know, that bool is not guaranteed to be 0 or 1.
2021-02-24T01:36:36 < karlp> jsut to be "true" or "false"
2021-02-24T01:36:43 < karlp> and to use whatever storage it feels like.
2021-02-24T01:36:49 < karlp> this is why you see !!some_bool in linux code
2021-02-24T01:36:55 < karlp> as that explicitly gets you to a 0/1
2021-02-24T01:37:08 < karlp> thatmight be a c89 vs c99+ thing though...
2021-02-24T01:37:27 < karlp> I certainly wouldn't be relying on some_bool << 7 and checking with 0x80 (presumably, you mean 0x80, not 80)
2021-02-24T01:41:36 < machinehum> ye
2021-02-24T01:41:45 < machinehum> Thanks
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2021-02-24T02:04:00 < fluiD> I have a timer with a counter period of 3 and channel 1 is PWM generation with a pulse of 2. That gives me a 50% duty-cycle square wave and it's exactly what I want.
2021-02-24T02:05:08 < fluiD> I want to have another output go high synchronized with that PWM going high. I have channel 2 set as output compare with a pulse of 2. It's always synchronized with the square wave but sometimes the out2 goes high on the rising edge of the PWM and sometimes with the falling edge of the PWM.
2021-02-24T02:05:51 < fluiD> I assumed if PWM CH1 was pulse 2 and OC CH2 was pulse 2, they would be synchronized.
2021-02-24T02:11:28 < qyx> what is a "pulse of 2"
2021-02-24T02:12:15 < ventyl> beep beep
2021-02-24T02:12:18 < fluiD> that's what STM32Cube calls it. It's the compare value
2021-02-24T02:12:32 < qyx> thats the problem of the cube
2021-02-24T02:13:00 < qyx> i don't remember anything called that way in the RM
2021-02-24T02:13:38 < qyx> so period is 3 for the whole timer
2021-02-24T02:13:53 < qyx> OC1 compare register is set to 2
2021-02-24T02:14:02 < qyx> OC2 too?
2021-02-24T02:14:07 < fluiD> yes
2021-02-24T02:14:33 < qyx> so both are configured the same?
2021-02-24T02:14:51 < qyx> rising edges overlap, falling edges don't?
2021-02-24T02:15:22 < fluiD> CH1 is a 50% duty cycle. CH2 is just a one-time enable.
2021-02-24T02:18:05 < qyx> can you paste the code and do some screenshots?
2021-02-24T02:18:34 < fluiD> I would love to. One sec...
2021-02-24T02:21:27 < fluiD> qyx, https://wtools.io/paste-code/b3RM
2021-02-24T02:22:29 < qyx> huh?
2021-02-24T02:22:44 < fluiD> it's a bit of a hack, but I needed to generate a long-ish pulse compared to the PWM clock. In this case I just have it do a 10 uS pulse so I can look at it on the logic analyzer. Eventually it will be a much longer pulse and the jitter in the software timing won't be an issue.
2021-02-24T02:22:46 < qyx> are you setting OC2 in a software loop?
2021-02-24T02:22:59 < fluiD> Yup! Isn't it beautiful? :D
2021-02-24T02:24:00 < qyx> I wouldn't be surprised it ir didn't behave
2021-02-24T02:24:17 < fluiD> :/
2021-02-24T02:25:11 < fluiD> My ultimate goal is to generate a long-ish pulse (1ms or so) that the rising and falling edges are synchronized with the PWM square wave.
2021-02-24T02:25:33 < fluiD> The time between long-ish pulses is not important.
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2021-02-24T02:26:34 < qyx> what about gating another timer to the first one's update event TRGO
2021-02-24T02:27:04 < qyx> this way the second timer counter increments on the rising edge of your 50% signal
2021-02-24T02:27:11 < qyx> and you can set the period to whatever value you want
2021-02-24T02:27:25 < fluiD> I was having trouble working all of that out. Cube is entirely cryptic, and reading through the reference manual wasn't helping me.
2021-02-24T02:27:28 < qyx> and use PWM of the second timer to generate the long pulse in hardware
2021-02-24T02:31:07 < fluiD> so for this timer, I'd set TIM2 CR2 to Compare OC1REF as the master mode?
2021-02-24T02:31:19 < fluiD> (the master clock timer is TIM2)
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2021-02-24T02:33:56 < fluiD> ah! There's where the ITRs are defined.
2021-02-24T02:34:36 < qyx> are you sure TIM2 even supports master mode?
2021-02-24T02:34:58 < fluiD> TIM2 and TIM3 both support master and slave mode
2021-02-24T02:35:04 < fluiD> modeS
2021-02-24T02:35:38 < qyx> ok I am looking at a random stm32l452 RM and TIM2 has no MMS bits in the CR2 register
2021-02-24T02:36:36 < qyx> no, set update event as TRGO
2021-02-24T02:38:09 < fluiD> I don't have that option.
2021-02-24T02:38:35 < qyx> which stm32
2021-02-24T02:38:40 < qyx> is that
2021-02-24T02:38:43 < fluiD> This is the STM32F427
2021-02-24T02:38:50 < qyx> meh such old
2021-02-24T02:39:00 < fluiD> Oh is it? :(
2021-02-24T02:39:39 < qyx> initial release is from 2011
2021-02-24T02:39:59 < fluiD> according to the table, for slave TIM3, setting internal trigger connection to ITR1 gives me TIM2_TRGO
2021-02-24T02:40:00 < qyx> how so
2021-02-24T02:40:10 < qyx> 010: Update - The update event is selected as trigger output (TRGO). For instance a master
2021-02-24T02:40:13 < qyx> timer can then be used as a prescaler for a slave timer.
2021-02-24T02:40:18 < qyx> CR2 MMS
2021-02-24T02:41:23 < fluiD> I assume Update instead of OC1REF simply changes the polarity in this case, but that's fine.
2021-02-24T02:43:24 < qyx> which table are you reffering to?
2021-02-24T02:43:49 < fluiD> table 98. TIMx internal trigger connection
2021-02-24T02:49:12 < qyx> yeah
2021-02-24T02:54:15 < fluiD> so the slave timer has SMS set to External Clock Mode 1
2021-02-24T02:58:50 < qyx> or trigger mode
2021-02-24T02:59:02 < fluiD> oh! I got it working! The sync is wrong, but I got the clock to generate
2021-02-24T02:59:14 < qyx> which causes the second timer to start at the rising edge
2021-02-24T02:59:25 < qyx> they have the same clock so they will stay in sync
2021-02-24T03:00:06 < fluiD> ok, let me try that
2021-02-24T03:00:45 < fluiD> slave mode - trigger completely breaks any sort of sync.
2021-02-24T03:01:43 < qyx> if TIM2 period is 4 (reload is 3), set period of TIM3 to a integer multiply of that
2021-02-24T03:02:01 < qyx> reload = 399 for example
2021-02-24T03:02:32 < fluiD> I have the slave set to ETR1 and I have the master set to OC1REF. The new pulse is sync'd to the rising edge of the square wave, which is perfect.
2021-02-24T03:03:03 < qyx> good then
2021-02-24T03:03:05 < fluiD> yeah, I have the second pulse set to be 10 times the square wave, and then repeat every 40
2021-02-24T03:03:24 < fluiD> awesome! Thank you very much for your help.
2021-02-24T03:04:25 < fluiD> this is perfect
2021-02-24T03:04:30 < fluiD> qyx, you're my new best friend
2021-02-24T03:04:58 < qyx> O-o
2021-02-24T03:05:11 < qyx> a rubber duck rather
2021-02-24T03:06:45 < fluiD> eh?
2021-02-24T03:09:49 < fluiD> Rising edge of long pulse is right on, falling edge appears to be 4 ns early, which is fine, just curious.
2021-02-24T03:10:54 < qyx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging
2021-02-24T03:12:19 < fluiD> ah. Yeah, I guess there was some of that.
2021-02-24T03:13:25 < fluiD> This 4ns thing is odd. It's only on the falling edge.
2021-02-24T03:13:38 < fluiD> stays there with different pulse durations.
2021-02-24T03:14:12 < qyx> off by one error?
2021-02-24T03:14:22 < qyx> which freq are you running at?
2021-02-24T03:16:21 < fluiD> The master timer is 42 MHz, the square wave is 10.5 MHz. If I set the slave to a period of 1, it stays high for 44 ns.
2021-02-24T03:16:45 < fluiD> while the period of the square wave is 48 ns
2021-02-24T03:17:21 < qyx> and the F4 is 168 MHz?
2021-02-24T03:17:35 < fluiD> Yes
2021-02-24T03:19:24 < karlp> well, found my kicad bug. no idea how to fix it though
2021-02-24T03:19:36 < karlp> and no easy hack paths forward even
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2021-02-24T03:25:18 < karlp> ah!nice
2021-02-24T03:25:28 < karlp> completely non-portable, but works for right now
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2021-02-24T03:29:17 < fluiD> for my long pulse, I use PWM mode 1 with a counter period of 10 and a compare value of 3. I get a pulse that's 8 clocks wide.
2021-02-24T03:29:49 < fluiD> is that because my PWM pulse is low until compare (3) and then high until overflow (10) ?
2021-02-24T03:30:06 < fluiD> I'm in one-shot mode
2021-02-24T03:35:25 < qyx> what about Bit 1 CC1P: Capture/Compare 1 output polarity
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2021-02-24T03:35:45 < qyx> in the CCER register
2021-02-24T03:37:51 < fluiD> I've played with that too. I'll figure it out. Thanks!
2021-02-24T03:39:56 < R2COM> step#1: abandon HAL
2021-02-24T03:41:03 < R2COM> step#2: search for register level code in ref. manual appendix, cuz it works 
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2021-02-24T04:46:06 < fluiD> qyx, I just realized why that clock seemed to be 4ns early. Measurement error.
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2021-02-24T06:42:43 < R2COM> https://github.com/idea4good/GuiLite
2021-02-24T06:42:48 < R2COM> https://github.com/idea4good/GuiLitePreviewer
2021-02-24T06:42:49 < R2COM> hmm
2021-02-24T06:58:26 < jpa-> lvgl looks better to me :)
2021-02-24T07:01:22 < R2COM> https://github.com/ocornut/imgui
2021-02-24T07:01:27 < R2COM> and heard of this ^
2021-02-24T07:01:50 < R2COM> its for win/linux also
2021-02-24T07:08:51 < R2COM> comments on that?
2021-02-24T07:11:23 < jpa-> looks reasonable, though pc-focused
2021-02-24T07:12:08 < R2COM> yes i was looking something for PC actually
2021-02-24T07:12:37 < R2COM> theres some shit in each of modern platforms like Qt, wtl, mfc, everything
2021-02-24T07:12:55 < R2COM> this one is standalone stuff, aimed mainly for game engines but can be easily i guess used for instrumentation gui
2021-02-24T07:13:26 < jpa-> ok
2021-02-24T07:41:04 < R2COM> https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/issues/3488
2021-02-24T07:41:08 < R2COM> look what people do with it
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2021-02-24T10:07:05 < srk> I have a port of oui-blendish http://48.io/~rmarko/implicit/2020-12-15-192114_1073x1055_scrot.png
2021-02-24T10:07:51 < srk> more recent one http://48.io/~rmarko/2020-12-21-114727_1188x1055_scrot.png
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2021-02-24T10:17:30 < mawk> this cube is not very cubic srk 
2021-02-24T10:24:04 < srk> yeah, it's just older app with UI rendered on top of it to test the concept. can't really play with it yet
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2021-02-24T10:24:47 < srk> https://github.com/aachman98/Sorcar
2021-02-24T10:29:10 < mawk> nice app
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2021-02-24T12:05:34 < Laurenceb> supppp
2021-02-24T12:05:39 < Laurenceb> >hackkitten
2021-02-24T12:05:52 < Laurenceb> uh oh they are still here
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2021-02-24T12:13:19 < Steffanx> Uh oh, Laurenceb is still here 
2021-02-24T12:13:43 < PaulFertser> "The Oregon Department of Education (ODE) recently encouraged teachers to register for training that encourages "ethnomathematics" and argues, among other things, that White supremacy manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer." https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-education-math-white-supremacy
2021-02-24T12:13:54 < PaulFertser> CENTER ETHNOMATHEMATICS: • Identify and challenge the ways that math is used to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views.
2021-02-24T12:14:04 < PaulFertser> Expose students to examples of people who have used math as resistance
2021-02-24T12:23:13 < Steffanx> Déjà vu, PaulFertser 
2021-02-24T12:23:27 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: sorry, posted it to wrong chan yesterday.
2021-02-24T12:23:36 < Laurenceb> David Davis
2021-02-24T12:24:05 < PaulFertser> I hope I could get some nice examples of using math as resistance here, given the experience of the pro IRC EEs.
2021-02-24T12:24:17 < Laurenceb> imagine being as new as PaulFertser
2021-02-24T12:24:21 < Steffanx> It was perfectly in line with the other shit posted that day PaulFertser :D
2021-02-24T12:24:41 < Laurenceb> tbh it makes as much sense as my wurk emailz
2021-02-24T12:26:50 < Laurenceb> > manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer
2021-02-24T12:26:53 < Laurenceb> irl kekking
2021-02-24T12:27:20 -!- Miyu is now known as hackkitten
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2021-02-24T12:31:10 < karlp> man, been a few too many fucking earthquakes today
2021-02-24T12:31:18 < karlp> we just relaxed covid restrictions again.
2021-02-24T12:31:27 < karlp> not really appreciating how many of them we're having
2021-02-24T12:31:39 < skz81> << he toolkit, similarly identifies "objectivity" -- described as "the belief that there is such a thing as being objective or 'neutral'" -- as a characteristic of White supremacy. >>
2021-02-24T12:31:42 < mawk> lol PaulFertser wtf
2021-02-24T12:31:49 < skz81> I want their dealer phone number
2021-02-24T12:32:10 < mawk> these people should be hanged before they do too much damage to society
2021-02-24T12:33:38 < PaulFertser> Hate speech there mawk, do not expose your supremacy ;)
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2021-02-24T12:33:54 < mawk> lol
2021-02-24T12:34:10 < PaulFertser> btw, navalny is now considered to be not-so-good by amnesty international as they found some hate speech in his old videos.
2021-02-24T12:34:19 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-24T12:34:28 < mawk> france media did the same some months ago
2021-02-24T12:34:30 < Laurenceb> imaggine only ready this shit at this point lol
2021-02-24T12:34:38 < Laurenceb> welcome to 2014
2021-02-24T12:34:39 < mawk> they say he's a nationalist that pivoted to anti-corruption because it gives better votes
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2021-02-24T12:35:13  * Laurenceb passes round the sjw bingo card
2021-02-24T12:35:16 < mawk> lol
2021-02-24T12:36:22 < Laurenceb> >minimise >problematic >communitie_s_ >trigger
2021-02-24T12:36:40 < Laurenceb> >muh mental health
2021-02-24T12:36:57 < PaulFertser> He also refuses to express any particular opinion on Crimea's annexation.
2021-02-24T12:37:28 < karlp> well, he can't be against _everything_ that putin ever did.
2021-02-24T12:37:32 < Laurenceb> lol he just wants putins jerb
2021-02-24T12:38:00 < karlp> well, even moderaate change would be improvement right? but amnesty, like many orgs, is fairly black/white thinking
2021-02-24T12:38:41 < Laurenceb> >its the current year
2021-02-24T12:38:55 < Laurenceb> >PaulFertser has just discovered sjw batshit insanity
2021-02-24T12:39:16 < karlp> mornign shakey https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CCEYG.png
2021-02-24T12:39:23 < PaulFertser> karlp: my impression is that it would be a big change in any case, and serious improvement in many areas.
2021-02-24T12:39:42 < karlp> PaulFertser: I completely agree :)
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2021-02-24T12:39:46 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: it's the first time I see it linked to math though.
2021-02-24T12:39:52 < mawk> anyway what's wrong with nationalism PaulFertser 
2021-02-24T12:40:03 < mawk> it has had wrong implementations in the past sure
2021-02-24T12:40:06 < karlp> julike aung syn (sp) is an improvement over the junta, even if she's still not at all perfect....
2021-02-24T12:40:18 < mawk> sp?
2021-02-24T12:40:25 < mawk> aung sun suu kyi
2021-02-24T12:41:05 < karlp> doesn't look like the junta is really having this coup go quite the way they thought it was going to go :)
2021-02-24T12:41:31 < Laurenceb> she went to my College
2021-02-24T12:41:37 < Laurenceb> we used to have a statue of her
2021-02-24T12:41:46 < mawk> it's not really a coup right, they just rang the end of playtime
2021-02-24T12:41:47 < Laurenceb> apparently its now been demolished lmao
2021-02-24T12:41:51 < mawk> they were always there behind the scenes
2021-02-24T12:41:53 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think amnesty members think they found hate speech, not mere nationalism. Hate speech provokes violence, so that's wrong. Nationalism itself is, hm, limiting the society I guess? It can do good for certain nations but can be absolutely counter-productive for the others.
2021-02-24T12:41:56 < mawk> in kyi's government
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2021-02-24T12:42:39 < mawk> ah yeah
2021-02-24T12:48:07 < karlp> realised last link was in icelandic, which is unhelpful for most people: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/x1FlN.png
2021-02-24T12:49:47 < mawk> time to build nuclear plants
2021-02-24T13:11:23 < karlp> well, great, kicad patch worked at home last night, applied it to a new build here today, completely different behaviour.
2021-02-24T13:11:29 < karlp> doesn't even seem to run my code.
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2021-02-24T13:51:37 < sync> karlp: just get a 4T nvme ssd
2021-02-24T13:51:43 < sync> then you don't have to justify a 2T one
2021-02-24T13:51:55 < zyp> good idea
2021-02-24T13:56:48  * karlp lols
2021-02-24T13:56:56  * mouseghost needs to put a bunch of caps everywhere to decouple shit
2021-02-24T13:57:14 < karlp> they don't even have 4T on the pricewatch thing here :)
2021-02-24T13:59:26 < sync> I just got one of those pcie to usb c gen 3.2 things
2021-02-24T13:59:31 < sync> and now I'm looking at SSDs
2021-02-24T13:59:48 < sync> and I'm not sure if I want QLC or TLC to put in there
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2021-02-24T16:11:58 < fenugrec> different musics  https://soundcloud.com/yoooms/how-i-do-funk-yooms-prod
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2021-02-24T16:48:16 < karlp> hrm, fenugrec muzak.  a new player!
2021-02-24T16:53:23 < fenugrec> gotta balance the spectrum, eh
2021-02-24T16:59:55 < karlp> whee, 1.6V https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/r/renesas/re-mcu-family-with-arm-cortex-m-core
2021-02-24T17:00:00 < karlp> not priced real well, but, hey,
2021-02-24T17:20:17 < ventyl> the only question which matters is
2021-02-24T17:20:23 < ventyl> does it run Autosar???
2021-02-24T17:21:49 < Ultrasauce> https://tenzenmen.bandcamp.com/album/alkisah additional musicspam
2021-02-24T17:23:42 < karlp> what's autosar?
2021-02-24T17:24:07 < ventyl> automotive SDK/OS/megamoth
2021-02-24T17:24:17 < ventyl> holy grail of every automotive SW developer
2021-02-24T17:25:36 < englishman> canadian muziks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7UqrMWDUSI
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2021-02-24T17:28:45 < Steffanx> Musik o'clock 🥳
2021-02-24T17:32:47 < fenugrec> Steffanx, I have something for you NL crew too, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2naR-KIX_g
2021-02-24T17:34:46 < Steffanx> Lol what fenugrec 
2021-02-24T17:35:33 < Steffanx> How on earth you found that
2021-02-24T17:36:44 < Steffanx> Fenugrec: I expected something like https://youtu.be/QBSELrm2-g0
2021-02-24T17:36:44 < fenugrec> played on some webradio I listen to. What does it talk about ?
2021-02-24T17:37:22 < fenugrec> hahaha
2021-02-24T17:38:53 < Steffanx> Mainly: I dont feel like waking up
2021-02-24T17:40:33 < englishman> quebec muziks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E90CtneZIf8
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2021-02-24T17:41:57 < Steffanx> Je ne parle français, et toi?
2021-02-24T17:42:17 < englishman> oui oui baguette fromage
2021-02-24T17:47:07 < fenugrec> englishman, 527 views since 2014... I see you like popular music
2021-02-24T17:48:16 < englishman> it was a #1 platinum hit in verdun sud, thats a good view count imo
2021-02-24T17:52:42 < jpa-> does anyone here have experience with putting tactile buttons behind stickers for frontpanel?
2021-02-24T17:57:16 < Laurenceb> I've used large membrane switches mounted inside holes drilled through a thick (5mm) sheet of polycarbonate
2021-02-24T17:57:47 < Laurenceb> then laser printed alu foil label on top with an cover layer of self adhesive book laminating material
2021-02-24T17:57:52 < Laurenceb> but thats a bit goofy
2021-02-24T17:58:06 < Laurenceb> it looked ok with care taken to assemble, but there are much better ways
2021-02-24T17:58:57 < Laurenceb> I had to chop off some parts of the membrane switches so they would fit flush with the front face of the polycarbonate
2021-02-24T17:59:22 < jpa-> i'm considering 12x12mm SMD tactile switches, which would poke through a hole in plastic enclosure, and i'd put a sticker on top
2021-02-24T17:59:44 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-02-24T17:59:54 < Laurenceb> I used 12mm panel mount switches iirc
2021-02-24T18:00:11 < Laurenceb> but they had most of their casing dremeled off
2021-02-24T18:00:26 < Laurenceb> so the front face of the panel was completely smooth
2021-02-24T18:00:58 < Laurenceb> then there was a second sheet of polycarbonate mounted behind the first to support the switches properly
2021-02-24T18:02:22 < Laurenceb> this was for medical shit
2021-02-24T18:03:14 < Laurenceb> there are companies who will make custom moulded plastic panels with built in switches but they cost a fortune for small volumes
2021-02-24T18:04:00 < Laurenceb> the design I made looked as good or better if the lamination was done _very carefully_
2021-02-24T18:04:51 < Laurenceb> the alu had to bulge very slightly, by about 0.3mm over each membrane switch
2021-02-24T18:05:28 < jpa-> JRPanel seems semi-affordable, but I'm considering using just random stickers from somewhere local
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2021-02-24T18:05:40 < Laurenceb> iirc it was possible to get it to go into shape with just my fingernail
2021-02-24T18:05:58 < Laurenceb> but I had to take care not to scratch off the laser printing
2021-02-24T18:06:13 < Laurenceb> that got protected later by the book lamination layer over the top
2021-02-24T18:06:51 < jpa-> possibly i could print sticker, put book lamination on top, laser cut to shape
2021-02-24T18:07:03 < Laurenceb> iirc a sheet of tissue paper between finger and printed alu sticker when forcing it on helped
2021-02-24T18:07:48 < Laurenceb> depends if the whole assembly can be completely coplanar or has to have small bulges in it
2021-02-24T18:09:34 < jpa-> with my current part choices it would bulge by 0.5mm
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2021-02-24T18:41:33 < PaulFertser> englishman: do you know how many economists does it take to change a light bulb?
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2021-02-24T18:46:48 < englishman> do tel
2021-02-24T18:47:08 < PaulFertser> None required. The Invisible Hand will do the job on its own.
2021-02-24T19:06:36 < englishman> with communism, the hand taking money out of your pocket is an actual hand
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2021-02-24T19:07:24 < kakium69> hello gang
2021-02-24T19:23:15 < fenugrec> yay, finally got the HDD that I RMA'd 6 weeks ago
2021-02-24T19:25:17 < Steffanx> Welcome to the evening crew, kakium69 
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2021-02-24T19:47:56 < skz81> How many Software Engineers to change a light bulb ? None. It's an HW problem
2021-02-24T19:49:05 < skz81> <englishman> with communism, ... >> Ok, free propaganda on the way, kewl
2021-02-24T19:50:03 < englishman> hello and welcome to ##stm32
2021-02-24T19:50:15 < englishman> unfortunately stm32 are out of stock worldwide so we just talk about msp430 now
2021-02-24T19:50:30 < qyx> no esp32 anymore?
2021-02-24T19:50:39 < englishman> what's there to talk about? everything works great
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2021-02-24T19:53:57 < englishman> the fracture of a fan blade due to P&W's continued classification of the TAI inspection process as a new and emerging technology that permitted them to continue accomplishing the inspection without having to develop a formal, defined initial and recurrent training program or an inspector certification program. The lack of training resulted in the inspector making an incorrect evaluation of an indication that
2021-02-24T19:53:57 < englishman> resulted in a blade with a crack being returned to service where it eventually fractured.
2021-02-24T19:54:28 < englishman> all P&W4ks to be reinspected before return to service
2021-02-24T19:54:52 < fenugrec> interesting... usually blade-off events are supposed to be well tested in test cells
2021-02-24T19:55:45 < englishman> well everyone survived
2021-02-24T19:56:00 < fenugrec> also, they're not supposed to crack all that often, either
2021-02-24T19:56:16 < englishman> as did everyone on the other 777 where the same thing happened 2 years ago
2021-02-24T19:56:51 < ventyl> P&W had also some other problem, IIRC bound to 737 max fleet
2021-02-24T19:57:00 < ventyl> or this is *it* ?
2021-02-24T19:58:11 < englishman> analysis here: https://avherald.com/h?article=4b4e8ca7&opt=0
2021-02-24T19:58:12 < fenugrec> yea, I guess losing misc intake parts is acceptable post-bladeoff, as long as the X kRPM shrapnel was contained
2021-02-24T20:04:21 < Steffanx> Did you see the nice photos of the airplane that sprayed turbine blades over dutchland, englishman ?
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2021-02-24T20:04:45 < Steffanx> Like 4 days ago
2021-02-24T20:07:25 < englishman> yes as well
2021-02-24T20:07:43 < englishman> https://avherald.com/h?article=4e35302b&opt=0
2021-02-24T20:10:10 < Steffanx> Yeah 
2021-02-24T20:10:25 < Steffanx> They only found 200 pieces so far.
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2021-02-24T20:43:05 < sync> and I'm not sure if I want QLC or TLC to put in there
2021-02-24T20:43:08 < sync> gah
2021-02-24T20:45:01 < Steffanx> deja vu mr sync 
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2021-02-24T21:05:34 < Steffanx> so far the usb-c charger you recommended seems to works fine karlp . lets see if it stays this way :)
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2021-02-24T22:06:55 < Ecco> Heya :)
2021-02-24T22:07:12 < Ecco> I have the dumbest question about the nWRPi bits
2021-02-24T22:07:21 < Ecco> supposedly they prevent flash modification
2021-02-24T22:07:39 < Ecco> but then, what prevent someone who'd want to modify the flash to simply flip said bit beforehand?
2021-02-24T22:08:52 < qyx> unintended maybe?
2021-02-24T22:12:39 < Ecco> ok, but then, assuming I want to implement a secure bootloader
2021-02-24T22:13:14 < Ecco> Is there a way to simply tell "ok, the following code can do whatever, but do *NOT* modify this first flash page?"
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2021-02-24T22:36:25 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-02-24T22:36:37  * Laurenceb worked out the hyperloop emailz
2021-02-24T22:36:51 < Laurenceb> https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/designers-guide-instrument-amps-complete.pdf
2021-02-24T22:36:54 < Laurenceb> page 71
2021-02-24T22:37:15 < Laurenceb> rf rectification around 20Mhz to 200MHz is really strong
2021-02-24T22:37:36 < Laurenceb> lock in is still a nasty hack
2021-02-24T22:46:12 < Laurenceb> sheeeet 
2021-02-24T22:46:15 < Laurenceb> this is quite bad
2021-02-24T22:46:29 < Laurenceb> I cant even make it work in spice
2021-02-24T22:49:40 < Laurenceb> maybe
2021-02-24T22:50:01 < Laurenceb> kapton - copper foil - self adhesive strain gauge
2021-02-24T22:50:07 < Laurenceb> might solve this issue
2021-02-24T22:55:46 < qyx> fbg strain gauges no worky?
2021-02-24T23:02:16 < fenugrec> haha wtf is going on, come back to a project after 1 month and stlink can't connect to target anymore ??
2021-02-24T23:05:21 < Laurenceb> qyx: yeah, so someone claims
2021-02-24T23:05:35 < Laurenceb> I was very sceptical, but now I think I know whats wrong
2021-02-24T23:06:08 < Laurenceb> so lock in "works" because the amplitude variations in the rf are fairly slow
2021-02-24T23:06:16 < Laurenceb> a nasty hack tbh
2021-02-24T23:06:25 < fenugrec> and why is NRST at 1.5V
2021-02-24T23:32:26 < karlp> Steffanx: good to hear
--- Day changed Thu Feb 25 2021
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2021-02-25T01:32:25 < mawk> fenugrec: throw away the stlink
2021-02-25T01:32:31 < mawk> it's what worked for me
2021-02-25T01:32:33 < mawk> trust me
2021-02-25T01:33:18 < fenugrec> mawk, hah... there's still an X % chance (decreasing constantly) that something's wrong with the target board...
2021-02-25T01:33:34 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-25T01:33:41 < mawk> I mean I had a stlink die randomly
2021-02-25T01:33:47 < mawk> so maybe it's not so uncommon
2021-02-25T01:34:04 < fenugrec> nah the stlink works on a different board, so it's not dead
2021-02-25T01:34:39 < mawk> flux residues you didn't clean?
2021-02-25T01:34:41 < mawk> and corroded the board
2021-02-25T01:35:42 < fenugrec> nop, IPA'd it after soldering. It's been programmed a few times already
2021-02-25T01:35:47 < mawk> it's not really rf rectification Laurenceb ?
2021-02-25T01:35:57 < mawk> where's the rf amplitude on that graph
2021-02-25T01:47:08 < skz81> a few "muzak" from britanny : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW0v6j5jSM
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2021-02-25T01:52:00 < Laurenceb> mawk: yeah it is effectively rectification
2021-02-25T01:52:13 < Laurenceb> but that pdf is about as incoherent as wurk emailz
2021-02-25T01:52:25 < Laurenceb> its either 1v, or 2v, or 200mv or something...
2021-02-25T01:52:50 < Laurenceb> assuming its 1v or 200mv both produces credible results from spice
2021-02-25T01:53:06 < Laurenceb> even with a two stage rc filter with 25kHz corner frequency on
2021-02-25T01:53:28 < Laurenceb> assuming up to 50v ripple on the metal chassis the gauge is fixed to
2021-02-25T01:57:34 < Laurenceb> mawk: its basically an AM radio receiver
2021-02-25T01:57:43 < Laurenceb> thats why the lock in "works"
2021-02-25T01:57:53 < Laurenceb> its still a nasty hack but its not completely stupid
2021-02-25T01:58:26 < Laurenceb> I'm struggling to find a solution that isnt a nasty hack tho :(
2021-02-25T01:58:44 < Laurenceb> hyperloop need to fix their clusterfuck motor driver
2021-02-25T01:58:48 < Laurenceb> thats the real fix
2021-02-25T01:59:10 < Laurenceb> >literally losing 2% of energy as EMI
2021-02-25T02:12:55 < mawk> lol
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2021-02-25T02:40:21 < mawk> >Inetrnal DC/DC function for generating VDH/VDL
2021-02-25T02:40:26 < mawk> I love these kind of datasheets
2021-02-25T02:40:40 < mawk> they have been too lazy to make new arrays for every command to explain arguments, so they copy pasted a lot
2021-02-25T02:40:47 < mawk> but forgot to change column and row headers
2021-02-25T02:40:52 < mawk> so I have to decipher what they mean
2021-02-25T02:41:16 < mawk> sometimes they just miss information, or put false information
2021-02-25T02:42:09 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210225014159882.png
2021-02-25T02:42:15 < mawk> I'm writing a lib for eink screen
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2021-02-25T03:37:14 < fenugrec> Ah, this is getting interesting. Just erased the F042  via the builtin UART BL. Verified option bytes are all at default value. Still can't connect with stlink...
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2021-02-25T04:05:13 < kakium69> hello night
2021-02-25T04:06:13 < fenugrec> hmm, only difference with the working board is I didn't put a 100nF on nRST...
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2021-02-25T04:08:15 < kakium69> some chips require 100n to reset
2021-02-25T04:08:54 < fenugrec> but it doesn't explain how this board used to work a month ago, and not today... spent the month in an antistatic bag
2021-02-25T04:09:09 < kakium69> relative humidity?
2021-02-25T04:09:33 < fenugrec> 30%
2021-02-25T04:10:04 < kakium69> what chip did you read errata?
2021-02-25T04:11:24 < kakium69> is operating voltage the same?
2021-02-25T04:21:14 < fenugrec> F042, don't remember anything special in the errata except some unsupported bxcan mode, and some I2C/I2S stuff maybe
2021-02-25T04:22:25 < fenugrec> Just added a cap on nRST, no change
2021-02-25T04:28:29 < kakium69> what solder is used?
2021-02-25T04:31:50 < kakium69> I think it might be something about solder joints
2021-02-25T04:34:18 < kakium69> if it has not had like condensing moisture I think the solder joint is only thing that can go bad just by itself
2021-02-25T04:35:20 < fenugrec> 63/37 fluxcore
2021-02-25T04:35:57 < kakium69> that's the right stuff
2021-02-25T04:36:06 < fenugrec> tomorrow I'll hook up a scope to nRST. the logic analyzer traces are strange, maybe the stlink nRST driver is dying
2021-02-25T04:36:52 < fenugrec> (I did check continuity from one end to the other)
2021-02-25T04:38:30 < kakium69> what is the driver?
2021-02-25T04:38:52 < fenugrec> I mean, the pin drivnig nRST
2021-02-25T04:39:52 < kakium69> another stm32?
2021-02-25T04:40:21 < fenugrec> its the (F103 I think) one inside the stlink
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2021-02-25T05:23:10 < R2COM> yo
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2021-02-25T11:39:04 < karlp> ok, stm32U5
2021-02-25T11:39:06 < karlp> whee
2021-02-25T11:40:58 < karlp> hrm, not really seeing anything ground breakingyet.
2021-02-25T11:41:16 < karlp> hrm, ADF sounds like a new periph finally
2021-02-25T11:42:46 < karlp> nice seeing all these people wearing masks
2021-02-25T11:43:35 < karlp> https://event.on24.com/eventRegistration/console/EventConsoleApollo.jsp?&eventid=2964349   maybe?
2021-02-25T11:46:13 < zyp> is that supposed to be even lower power than stm32l?
2021-02-25T11:46:49 < karlp> yeah, 20uA/Mhz, still does 160MHz
2021-02-25T11:46:57 < karlp> L5 is best at 60
2021-02-25T11:47:10 < zyp> nice
2021-02-25T11:49:18 < karlp> L1 was 185
2021-02-25T11:50:56 < karlp> lots of phsyical security stuff which I'm sure is interesting for some people
2021-02-25T11:51:25 < jpa-> what does ADF do?
2021-02-25T11:52:23 < karlp> audio filter thing, for wakeup on patterns I expect
2021-02-25T11:54:11 < karlp> targetting price of l4+, so ... not really cheap
2021-02-25T11:54:30 < karlp> kits in september
2021-02-25T11:54:54 < karlp> "new adc" 14bit.
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2021-02-25T12:16:27 < karlp> "pack creator" for sharing cube blobs :)
2021-02-25T12:16:37 < karlp> and a shit ton of azure rtos integ
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2021-02-25T12:36:08 < karlp> hrm, sounds like freertos will definitely be moved to "we won't break it" rather than just "two options, azure and freertos"
2021-02-25T12:40:05 < qyx> s freertos xonnected with azure in any way?
2021-02-25T12:43:33 < karlp> nope
2021-02-25T12:43:39 < karlp> ms bought threadx
2021-02-25T12:43:47 < karlp> so azure rtos is == threadx.
2021-02-25T12:44:03 < karlp> and st partnerted with ms, obviously got a better deal than from amazon?
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2021-02-25T12:49:53 < karlp> new little wb as well.
2021-02-25T12:58:48 < Laurenceb> wait wtf
2021-02-25T12:58:52 < Laurenceb> >rtos
2021-02-25T12:58:54 < Laurenceb> >azure
2021-02-25T12:59:12 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
2021-02-25T13:02:05 < karlp> ahha! they're going to do wifi, "stay tuned"
2021-02-25T13:13:08 < karlp> usb dvice onto WL on roadmap
2021-02-25T13:16:15 < jadew> hmm, tried to get some PCBs on my freight account - not worth it
2021-02-25T13:16:33 < jadew> ~150 USD for the shipping price + VAT
2021-02-25T13:17:02 < jadew> I guess I won't order from elecrow anymore (they removed the cheap DHL shipping option)
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2021-02-25T14:09:58 < mawk> yeah Laurenceb 
2021-02-25T14:10:05 < mawk> and they offer crippled hal
2021-02-25T14:11:05 < zyp> karlp, huh, that's neat
2021-02-25T14:11:23 < zyp> wonder if it'll be a dual cpu like wb with a locked down wifi blob
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2021-02-25T14:18:45 < fenugrec> of course
2021-02-25T14:18:49 < fenugrec> security by obscurity
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2021-02-25T15:17:50 < karlp> can't imagine anything else.
2021-02-25T15:18:05 < karlp> we're too expect next gen in W series stuff in 1.5-2 years though
2021-02-25T15:40:17 < englishman> with availability in 9-15 years
2021-02-25T15:41:22 < karlp> eh, just repeating what was in the presentatin
2021-02-25T15:41:27 < karlp> not holding breaths for next gen stuff no
2021-02-25T15:53:09 < englishman> st is one of the presenters at photonics west making their online stuff free
2021-02-25T15:53:27 < englishman> if anyone is interested.
2021-02-25T15:53:32 < karlp> this is neat: https://jakearchibald.com/2020/avif-has-landed/
2021-02-25T15:55:55 < englishman> the equal filesize comparison is fantastic
2021-02-25T15:58:00 < karlp> yeah
2021-02-25T16:32:49 < Ecco> Dumb question regarding OTP: do they work like fuses?
2021-02-25T16:33:12 < Ecco> As in, you can keep on writing bits of value 0, but never bits of value 1?
2021-02-25T16:34:16 < zyp> check the docs?
2021-02-25T16:35:27 < zyp> IIRC one of the docs I read the other day said that as soon as a word was written to anything other than 0xffffffff, it couldn't be written anymore, not even to overwrite it with all zeroes
2021-02-25T16:35:41 < zyp> but I'm not sure which particular chip that was for, maybe G4
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2021-02-25T17:13:29 < qyx> zyp: they are marketing "dual core" as a feature mainly for wireless binary blobs
2021-02-25T17:13:49 < zyp> I mean, on wb it exclusively is
2021-02-25T17:13:57 < zyp> since you can't run your own code on CPU2
2021-02-25T17:14:21 < qyx> interesting, those papers I read didn't explicitly mention it
2021-02-25T17:15:46 < zyp> radio is only accessible by CPU2, and the code for CPU2 is protected by the PCROP stuff
2021-02-25T17:16:49 < zyp> so to load code into it, it has to happen through the secure bootloader blob that's preinstalled in the protected region
2021-02-25T17:17:39 < zyp> there's also an option byte to disable CPU2 security, but it seems to be hardwired on
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2021-02-25T17:18:36 < zyp> prerelease silicon was not, and I have prerelease docs, but trying to use the same method for unlocking it bricks CPU2 :)
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2021-02-25T17:19:23 < qyx> so it is not possible to update the binary blob from the appliucation running on the second core?
2021-02-25T17:19:44 -!- oz4ga [~5q7v]@unaffiliated/oz4ga] has quit [Client Quit]
2021-02-25T17:19:48 < zyp> not by writing flash directly
2021-02-25T17:20:30 < zyp> you have to fire up the bootloader thing and feed it the encrypted blob
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2021-02-25T17:20:38 < zyp> and then it will write flash in the region you don't get to see
2021-02-25T17:21:02 < zyp> I think the interface for the bootloader thing might be documented now
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2021-02-25T17:22:51 < zyp> FUS, it's called
2021-02-25T17:22:52 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00556294-overtheair-application-and-wireless-firmware-update-for-stm32wb-series-microcontrollers-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-02-25T17:27:33 < mawk> FUD
2021-02-25T17:42:40 < karlp> blah, speedcrunch crashed gnome-shella nd took all my windows with it again
2021-02-25T17:42:43 < karlp> thishappened in teh past
2021-02-25T17:42:51 < srk> :D
2021-02-25T17:43:09 < srk> it's supposed to survive crashes
2021-02-25T17:43:13 < karlp> then it got fixed by... something? did I do something?
2021-02-25T17:43:31 < karlp> yeah, well this morning teamviewer did the same thing. not been a productive day...
2021-02-25T17:43:50 < srk> running javascript in your window manager is always a good idea
2021-02-25T17:44:13 < karlp> that's harhar funny, but hardly relevant.
2021-02-25T17:45:08 < srk> if shell crashes, it should just restart itself and you shouldn't loose your apps
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2021-02-25T17:46:37 < srk> try kill
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2021-02-25T18:22:38 < machinehum> Upwork is so fucking trash
2021-02-25T18:22:57 < jadew> machinehum, why?
2021-02-25T18:23:08 < machinehum> They should just call it "Design me a thing for 30$" website
2021-02-25T18:23:21 < jadew> yeah
2021-02-25T18:23:23 < machinehum> Because it's all fixed cost shit insanely low
2021-02-25T18:23:34 < machinehum> And you know there's people in India like OoooOOoOo
2021-02-25T18:23:38 < machinehum> Like people post that shit for a reason
2021-02-25T18:23:50 < jadew> that's the reason, yeah
2021-02-25T18:24:05 < jadew> they think they can get it done for that much (and maybe they can?)
2021-02-25T18:24:37 < machinehum> Maybe
2021-02-25T18:25:15 < jadew> I had one talk with a guy once, who got his product designed like that
2021-02-25T18:25:19 < jadew> and obviously it didn't work
2021-02-25T18:25:33 < machinehum> I hope their stupid projects fail and they realize the errors of their ways
2021-02-25T18:25:34 < jadew> and was needing someone to relayout the RF part of the PCB
2021-02-25T18:25:38 < machinehum> Someone should make an racist upwork that's IP restricted to first world countries
2021-02-25T18:26:15 < jadew> he didn't want to pay enough, so I didn't take the deal
2021-02-25T18:26:20 < machinehum> jadew: The person getting paid like 2$/hr didn't know about proper antenna design etc...?
2021-02-25T18:28:11 < jadew> it's a learning process for them
2021-02-25T18:28:24 < jadew> the lesson is that shit isn't cheap
2021-02-25T18:28:50 < machinehum> Applying for an Australian job, they're racist as hell, should have a good shot at it
2021-02-25T18:31:06 < skz81> try nederlands 
2021-02-25T18:34:26 < machinehum> heh
2021-02-25T18:41:14 < Laurenceb> abbo meat is their national dish
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2021-02-25T18:50:10 < machinehum> I love how all their rates are like 15-20$/hr
2021-02-25T18:50:17 < machinehum> Like what the actual fuck lol
2021-02-25T18:50:39 < machinehum> Like nah, I'll just go work at a mcdonalds
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2021-02-25T19:06:20 < jadew> why are video cards so freaking expensive?
2021-02-25T19:06:34 < mouseghost> mining?
2021-02-25T19:06:45 < Steffanx> What is expensive jadew?
2021-02-25T19:07:05 < jadew> 300+
2021-02-25T19:07:07 < Steffanx> Also: come on, you make your own gpu....
2021-02-25T19:07:17 < Steffanx> Better, cheaper. Easy
2021-02-25T19:07:22 < jadew> right...
2021-02-25T19:07:25 < Steffanx> Lol.
2021-02-25T19:07:49 < Steffanx> Picologger 😍
2021-02-25T19:07:49 < mouseghost> only children play games
2021-02-25T19:07:52 < mouseghost> real men watch porn
2021-02-25T19:07:54 < jadew> lol Steffanx 
2021-02-25T19:07:58 < mouseghost> and comment on news
2021-02-25T19:08:08 < jadew> mouseghost, I play with my son
2021-02-25T19:08:14 < Steffanx> Whoa
2021-02-25T19:08:18 < mouseghost> whoa
2021-02-25T19:08:21 < machinehum> whoa
2021-02-25T19:08:22 < Steffanx> Take that back jadew
2021-02-25T19:08:40 < jadew> why? :)
2021-02-25T19:08:45 < Steffanx> As a reply to mouseghost's comment that's sooo wrong
2021-02-25T19:08:49 < mouseghost> jadew, what games, mostly?
2021-02-25T19:08:56 < jadew> stacraft
2021-02-25T19:09:06 < mouseghost> hm
2021-02-25T19:09:13 < Steffanx> Star.
2021-02-25T19:09:31 < jadew> we're trying to beat a mod these days, but my PC freezes at the last levels, because there's too much to render
2021-02-25T19:09:37 < jadew> so I need a new card to beat the zombies
2021-02-25T19:09:54 < Steffanx> What do you have now?
2021-02-25T19:10:01 < jadew> let me check
2021-02-25T19:10:23 < jadew> gtx 750 ti
2021-02-25T19:10:34 < machinehum> You want an RX570?
2021-02-25T19:10:54 < machinehum> I can't mine eth with it anymore because they're fucking dag went up or some shit
2021-02-25T19:10:55 < jadew> I'm not up to speed with video card technology
2021-02-25T19:11:02 < Steffanx> Something gtx 1650 is < 300 for sure
2021-02-25T19:11:24 < jadew> gtx 1650 is ~500
2021-02-25T19:11:28 < mouseghost> you sure its on gpu side tho?
2021-02-25T19:11:29 < jadew> 500 USD
2021-02-25T19:11:41 < jadew> mouseghost, I hope
2021-02-25T19:11:41 < Steffanx> No its not jadew
2021-02-25T19:11:49 < machinehum> What you want is a <4gb card
2021-02-25T19:11:52 < jadew> https://www.emag.ro/placa-video-asus-phoenix-geforcer-gtx-1650-oc-4gb-gddr5-128-bit-ph-gtx1650-o4g-v2/pd/DCD4XDMBM/
2021-02-25T19:11:58 < machinehum> anything over that people snatch up for mining
2021-02-25T19:11:59 < machinehum> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-Radeon-Armor-RX-580-4GB-GDDR5-Graphics-Card-RX-580-ARMOR-4G-OC-used/124586319296?epid=783105591&hash=item1d01ec5dc0:g:qg4AAOSwuvBgMr4P
2021-02-25T19:12:02 < machinehum> That's fine
2021-02-25T19:12:07 < Steffanx> 940 lei to euro.
2021-02-25T19:12:26 < mouseghost> Steffanx, are you romanian?
2021-02-25T19:12:29 < jadew> oh, that's 940...
2021-02-25T19:12:30 < Steffanx> No
2021-02-25T19:12:35 < jadew> I thought it said 1940
2021-02-25T19:12:41 < Steffanx> Hah
2021-02-25T19:12:43 < jadew> it does say that...
2021-02-25T19:12:45 < jadew> wtf
2021-02-25T19:12:54 < Steffanx> Still it does not
2021-02-25T19:13:00 < Steffanx> 942. Lei
2021-02-25T19:13:06 < jadew> https://www.emag.ro/placi_video/c?ref=hp_menu_quick-nav_23_7&type=category
2021-02-25T19:13:15 < jadew> 5th one
2021-02-25T19:13:21 < jadew> what does it say?
2021-02-25T19:14:11 < Steffanx> 2k
2021-02-25T19:14:17 < Steffanx> - a bit
2021-02-25T19:14:28 < jadew> yeah... I think their website is broken
2021-02-25T19:14:35 < karlp> srk: what do you mean by "try kill" ?
2021-02-25T19:14:52 < jadew> for other cards the prices are correctly displayed
2021-02-25T19:15:00 < karlp> like literally, launch app, screen goes black, gnome-shell has restarted the session.
2021-02-25T19:15:12 < karlp> I'm not killing my session and I should "try kill" instead
2021-02-25T19:15:12 < jadew> is 1650 < 1050?
2021-02-25T19:15:22 < srk> uh, I mean something like pkill -9 gnome-shell to see if it restarts
2021-02-25T19:15:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.psypost.org/2020/11/study-uncovers-a-large-increase-in-sexual-inactivity-among-young-heterosexual-men-in-the-united-states-58505
2021-02-25T19:15:45 < Laurenceb> incel rebellion
2021-02-25T19:16:11 < srk> like check logs, your session should not crash due to window manager 
2021-02-25T19:16:19 < jadew> "About 1 in 3 young men in the United States report having no sexual activity in the past year, according to new research published in JAMA Network Open."
2021-02-25T19:16:29 < jadew> doh... they were locked in
2021-02-25T19:16:52 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-02-25T19:17:12 < Steffanx> Laurenceb is more surprised they only went back 1 year... because he can't related to such short period 
2021-02-25T19:18:09 < jadew> ok... there are too many choices
2021-02-25T19:18:19 < srk> karlp: what distro?
2021-02-25T19:18:21 < jadew> bigger number means more powerful card?
2021-02-25T19:18:26 < karlp> fedora
2021-02-25T19:18:46 < srk> mm, pity. just installed bunut xD
2021-02-25T19:18:47 < srk> buntu
2021-02-25T19:19:03 < srk> should work well on fedora since it is the default desktop for it
2021-02-25T19:19:29 < Steffanx> Usually that's the case jadew
2021-02-25T19:21:26 < jadew> wtf... most nvidia cards are out of stock
2021-02-25T19:21:57 < srk> turned into ether
2021-02-25T19:22:49 < jadew> this is silly...
2021-02-25T19:24:02 < srk> I want to buy passively cooled 1030 for my gf, these should be good
2021-02-25T19:24:09 < jadew> ah, the ones sold by emag are out of stock
2021-02-25T19:24:18 < qyx> what would you like to have your card for?
2021-02-25T19:24:56 < jadew> qyx, starcraft
2021-02-25T19:25:04 < srk> 1030 will do
2021-02-25T19:25:10 < qyx> you are kidding, is it a game?
2021-02-25T19:25:19 < qyx> is there anybody using graphic cards for games today?
2021-02-25T19:25:24 < srk> yes
2021-02-25T19:26:06 < Bluecoat> Among Us brings my GPU to it's knees!
2021-02-25T19:26:48 < jadew> you know who wins the most from this crypto rush?
2021-02-25T19:26:51 < srk> I think I don't a have game that can fully load my 1070
2021-02-25T19:26:57 < jadew> nvidia stock holders
2021-02-25T19:27:24 < jadew> I want to pay $200 tops
2021-02-25T19:28:20 < jadew> these fuckers at emag sold me a premium package which included free delivery for shit they sold
2021-02-25T19:28:28 < jadew> and now they don't have anything in stock
2021-02-25T19:28:36 < jadew> everything is sold by third parties 
2021-02-25T19:30:03 < jadew> ok, looks like if I'm going to get a card now, I'm gonna get burnt
2021-02-25T19:30:59 < jadew> I want it to be able to drive 4 monitors too
2021-02-25T19:31:11 < jadew> most seem to be for 2
2021-02-25T19:31:21 < srk> I think I have 4 outputs
2021-02-25T19:31:24 < skz81> srk: hmm, what about a passively cooled GF ?
2021-02-25T19:31:38 < skz81> (that implies she's not too hot)
2021-02-25T19:31:50 < srk> xD
2021-02-25T19:33:16 < srk> yeah, nvidia sections at local shops look pretty sad
2021-02-25T19:34:13 < srk> I wonder how much of that is due to crypto and how much due to rona (and demand for better gpus / supply chain troubles)
2021-02-25T19:36:31 < jadew> it's probably because of crypto with all these news stories about how buttcoin is worth more than gold
2021-02-25T19:36:46 < srk> 'The popular online gaming platform Steam saw more than a 20-percent uptick in purchased games and a more than 50-percent increase when it comes to hours played during 2020. It makes sense—with nowhere to go, digital worlds provide the next best thing to an actual escape.'
2021-02-25T19:36:50 < srk> not entirely
2021-02-25T19:39:06 < Laurenceb> And now we're over to Tim from the BBC on his undercover investigation into the British alt right. He tells the harrowing story of how one young man, struggling with blacked and scat porn addiction, crossed the line into terrorism this week before the original documentary could be aired. Join us for this Panorama special
2021-02-25T19:42:55 < jadew> what happens if I get another video card and use them both? which one will be used for gaming?
2021-02-25T19:43:46 < jadew> the one driving the monitor displaying the game, or it picks it based on other criteria?
2021-02-25T19:46:27 < srk> idk
2021-02-25T19:46:46 < srk> I'm fighting with laptop that has both intel and nvidia gpus, sucks hard
2021-02-25T19:46:58 < srk> multiple nvidias are quite common so I would expect that to just work
2021-02-25T19:47:25 < srk> I want to pass one to qemu vm
2021-02-25T19:48:14 < srk> that also works quite well btw, if you have mobo with iommu
2021-02-25T19:52:35 < Steffanx> Multiple nvidia cards depends on the series I recall. 
2021-02-25T19:52:51 < Steffanx> But I'm not sure
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2021-02-25T20:25:08 < jadew> According to Digiconomist’s Bitcoin energy consumption tracker, mining currently consumes 77.78 terawatt-hours per year. That is comparable to the total energy consumption of countries such as the Netherlands and the Czech Republic.
2021-02-25T20:26:22 < jadew> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952
2021-02-25T20:26:41 < jadew> previous article was pro-bitcoin
2021-02-25T20:26:54 < jadew> from the BBC: Cambridge researchers say it consumes around 121.36 terawatt-hours (TWh) a year - and is unlikely to fall unless the value of the currency slumps.
2021-02-25T20:27:49 < kakium69> we are doomed
2021-02-25T20:28:25 < kakium69> or progressing
2021-02-25T20:28:39 < jadew> also from the previous article - the tagline: Do the benefits brought by Bitcoin and the improvement in our standard of living justify this additional use of energy?
2021-02-25T20:28:50 < srk> no
2021-02-25T20:28:52 < jadew> what improvements? lol
2021-02-25T20:29:15 < jadew> and what benefits exactly?
2021-02-25T20:30:07 < srk> trustless distributed ledger
2021-02-25T20:40:28 < kakium69> we are progressing and doomed both at once
2021-02-25T20:41:40 < srk> yep
2021-02-25T20:45:12 < englishman> when calibrating an instrument, the calibrating instrument will have an accuracy equal to or greater than the DUT. When verifying the DUT after calibration, should the verification threshholds be those of the calibrating instrument or the DUT?
2021-02-25T20:45:47 < englishman> I think it should be the calibrating instrument, but NIST is ambiguous on this point
2021-02-25T20:49:21 < ventyl> I somehow remember, that calibration equipment should have accuracy definitely greater than DUT
2021-02-25T20:50:14 < Steffanx> im also curious if they really write "threshholds" in canadaland, englishman 
2021-02-25T20:52:05 < englishman> in most cases ventyl yes but there are some cases where you a test accuracy ratio of 1 is suitable
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2021-02-25T20:52:46 < englishman> in this case, the tar is >1 but the verification is done against the precision of the DUT and i think that is wrong
2021-02-25T20:52:52 < Steffanx> So are you doing calibration or ... adjustment englishman ?
2021-02-25T20:53:02 < englishman> after calibration is done, verification
2021-02-25T20:54:02 < englishman> ie. is it really normal that with the calibration applied that the verified value is outside of the precision range of the calibrating instrument?
2021-02-25T20:54:14 < qyx> fuking china steel wires
2021-02-25T20:57:56 < qyx> also, jadew, fuk the whole bitcoin
2021-02-25T21:02:35 < englishman> i suppose it should be within the tolerances of the DUT and not the calibrating instrument
2021-02-25T21:02:47 < ventyl> well, probably
2021-02-25T21:03:40 < ventyl> because with calibration, you can align several fixed values and accuracy of DUT should make, that in whole range, error won't be bigger than one guarranteed by DUT
2021-02-25T21:03:57 < englishman> right
2021-02-25T21:04:29 < englishman> but it seems weird that with a fresh calibration, say your device has a 10% error calibrated with an instrument with 1% error that it leaves the factory reading 1 as 1.1
2021-02-25T21:04:39 < englishman> a perfectly valid result
2021-02-25T21:05:13 < englishman> however when you include the 1% error of the calibrating instrument, that reading could be as high as 1.11 which is invalid
2021-02-25T21:06:08 < englishman> hence why i think a TAR>1 is applied to the 12-month calibration interval or whatever while the superior precision should be used at time of calib/verif
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2021-02-25T23:12:05 < englishman> so acceptable practice is to have pass/fail inside the specifications of the instrument
2021-02-25T23:12:13 < englishman> but it is ultimately up to the calibration lab to decide
2021-02-25T23:12:24 < englishman> *inside the specifications of the DUT
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2021-02-25T23:35:31 < qyx> you just unveiled yourself.
--- Day changed Fri Feb 26 2021
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2021-02-26T00:43:13 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/UXc6LnJ.jpg
2021-02-26T00:43:15 < mawk> eink working
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2021-02-26T00:50:50 < qyx> such big
2021-02-26T00:50:58 < qyx> what refresh time did you achieve?
2021-02-26T00:52:16 < mawk> too long
2021-02-26T00:52:22 < mawk> it's like 20s
2021-02-26T00:53:16 < mawk> but I have to try to tweak parameters to bring it down
2021-02-26T00:53:24 < mawk> I can change various timing periods and drive strength and so on
2021-02-26T00:53:29 < mawk> and I will try partial refresh also
2021-02-26T00:53:50 < mawk> I see with partial refresh there is a way to make it scan less gates and sources, there's a bit for that
2021-02-26T00:53:59 < mawk> so there is a chance that it reduces the time it takes
2021-02-26T00:54:44 < mawk> I wrote a lib for it
2021-02-26T00:54:48 < mawk> it's ~1000 lines of code
2021-02-26T00:58:21 < englishman> apparently most of what makes the eink company valuable is all the crazy shit they figured out to have a decent refresh rate
2021-02-26T01:02:02 < mawk> yeah that makes sense
2021-02-26T01:02:34 < mawk> qyx: https://bpa.st/7LS7W this is the lib I wrote
2021-02-26T01:02:44 < mawk> I can probably adapt it without too much trouble to the other models
2021-02-26T01:02:49 < mawk> there are not much things that are red-color specific
2021-02-26T01:02:58 < mawk> the official "lib" by waveshare is mega shitty
2021-02-26T01:03:21 < mawk> I defined all the constants they use, as well as default values
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2021-02-26T01:04:48 < Steffanx> 1000 lines of code for a hello world :) 
2021-02-26T01:05:32 < mawk> yes
2021-02-26T01:05:38 < mawk> but it's not just a hello world
2021-02-26T01:05:42 < mawk> it's the full lib to talk to the screen
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2021-02-26T04:38:26 < R2COM> lolz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfyJ5XBchoQ
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2021-02-26T06:20:33 < jadew> hmm, looks like my 750 TI is better than the 1030
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2021-02-26T06:43:25 < jadew> ok... I can't find a better video card than the one I have in stock
2021-02-26T06:43:52 < jadew> and this card wasn't even special when I bought years ago
2021-02-26T06:44:09 < jadew> stupid miners...
2021-02-26T06:44:42 < jadew> on the bright side, within a year or so, we'll probably be able to buy video cards for $100, that can render reality as we know it
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2021-02-26T07:24:41 < R2COM> why?
2021-02-26T07:25:34 < jpa-> because jadew is sure that bitcoin will crash in a year, and he is sure that will crash tesla also, and that he'll make a billion on his shorts
2021-02-26T07:25:51 < jadew> ah, not because of that
2021-02-26T07:26:14 < jadew> because miners are pushing video card technology to new levels
2021-02-26T07:26:55 < jadew> there's a demand for much higher video cards and in the long run it's going to benefit everyone
2021-02-26T07:27:10 < jadew> huge inconvenience now tho
2021-02-26T07:28:48 < jpa-> is it really miners that are pushing it? the major technological advances seem to be DLSS and raytracing etc, which are of no interest to miners
2021-02-26T07:29:17 < jpa-> and IIRC at least bitcoin has quite low bus bandwidth requirements, unlike graphics applications
2021-02-26T07:31:04 < jadew> so regular joe gamer wouldn't benefit for more logic cells or however they call them?
2021-02-26T07:31:11 < jadew> *from
2021-02-26T07:31:19 < jadew> and more memory if I understand that correctly
2021-02-26T07:32:46 < R2COM> he will benefit from amount of processors and faster bus
2021-02-26T07:33:01 < R2COM> jadew why you think we gonna have high end gpus for $100 later
2021-02-26T07:33:34 < jadew> as video card companies make new better lines of products, the old ones get cheaper
2021-02-26T07:33:58 < jadew> I'm assuming this process is accelerated by the high demand
2021-02-26T07:34:45 < jadew> and when demand is going to stop (and I'm sure it will), all the product lines will drop in price significantly
2021-02-26T07:34:59 < jadew> so we should be able to get really good video cards at really good prices
2021-02-26T07:37:43 < jpa-> .. or you'll get mining optimized cards and then GPU companies will suddenly be out of cash flow and can't make graphics-optimized cards anymore
2021-02-26T07:37:58 < jadew> even if this mining thing works and I'm wrong about crypto having a value of 0, it can't work for long for miners, eventually, the market will reballance itself and in order to find a bitcoin worth 50k, in a year, you'll need a farm that costs 500k
2021-02-26T07:38:32 < R2COM> what if bitcoin never goes down
2021-02-26T07:38:57 < jadew> well, even so, the market will reballance itself and will make it such that you can't get more than 10% ROI
2021-02-26T07:39:10 < jadew> because if you do, more people will get into that thing, until you don't
2021-02-26T07:39:23 < R2COM> i laugh at stupid statements about crypto having value of 0
2021-02-26T07:39:34 < R2COM> say that to people who ride lambos now who did that from long ago
2021-02-26T07:39:42 < jadew> jpa-, didn't they have ASICs at one point? they seem to be back to video cards now
2021-02-26T07:39:56 < jadew> R2COM, a ponzi scheme is like that
2021-02-26T07:40:01 < jadew> some people do get rich off of it
2021-02-26T07:40:05 < jpa-> jadew: i think bitcoin is with ASICs and ethereum with GPUs or something
2021-02-26T07:40:16 < R2COM> asics are not cheap
2021-02-26T07:40:39 < jadew> jpa-, I see, are the ASICs still doing a good job tho? or they release new ones every year or so?
2021-02-26T07:41:11 < jpa-> jadew: IIRC new ones do come out and old ones are dumped to ebay
2021-02-26T07:41:34 < jpa-> bitcoin probably has some value as a means of facilitating money laundering, so not zero, but not anywhere near the value speculators have given it
2021-02-26T07:42:10 < jadew> right, and even so, it's based on the idea that work put in is actually value, when it really isn't
2021-02-26T07:42:48 < jadew> that's a commie idea
2021-02-26T07:43:01 < R2COM> i mean if one talks about value of company/entity representing certain stock then yea
2021-02-26T07:43:13 < R2COM> for example Tesla doesnt cost as much as it actually does now...
2021-02-26T07:43:20 < R2COM> its bubble thing
2021-02-26T07:43:24 < jadew> yeah, Tesla is in a bubble
2021-02-26T07:43:31 < jadew> but Tesla does have value
2021-02-26T07:43:34 < R2COM> same is amazon...amazon does NOT produce anyshit
2021-02-26T07:43:39 < R2COM> it has value
2021-02-26T07:43:44 < R2COM> but not large value
2021-02-26T07:43:46 < R2COM> same is amazon
2021-02-26T07:43:51 < jadew> I agree there, yeah
2021-02-26T07:43:55 < R2COM> amazon has only logistical facilities
2021-02-26T07:43:57 < R2COM> thats about it
2021-02-26T07:44:15 < R2COM> on another hand... BP, ExxonMobil, Total...Chevron...
2021-02-26T07:44:21 < R2COM> man...they have mega factories
2021-02-26T07:44:29 < R2COM> they have huge facilities and storages
2021-02-26T07:44:33 < R2COM> it costs real dollars
2021-02-26T07:44:42 < jpa-> oil companies are just logistics also! ;)
2021-02-26T07:44:47 < R2COM> no
2021-02-26T07:44:53 < R2COM> ExxonMobil has 17 refineries
2021-02-26T07:45:06 < R2COM> do you have idea what it takes to build one?
2021-02-26T07:45:09 < R2COM> $$ ?
2021-02-26T07:45:15 < jpa-> they don't produce oil, they just get it from their warehouses underground, sort out the products and ship it out ;)
2021-02-26T07:45:17 < R2COM> + what they store
2021-02-26T07:45:19 < R2COM> + equipment
2021-02-26T07:45:58 < R2COM> ...
2021-02-26T07:45:59 < R2COM> ok
2021-02-26T07:46:47 < R2COM> nobody "produces" oil you know
2021-02-26T07:46:59 < R2COM> im afraid to wonder do you even know where oil comes from
2021-02-26T07:47:35 < jpa-> sorry, i forgot you don't know what ";)" means
2021-02-26T07:47:45 < jadew> the value there is in the fact that you need oil and it costs more for you to get it yourself
2021-02-26T07:47:57 < jadew> the difference between that and bitcoin is that you don't need bitcoin
2021-02-26T07:48:22 < jadew> you can't use it for anything, not even as a currency because it's so volatile
2021-02-26T07:48:32 < R2COM> i just wanted to point out if the amount of dollars the company costs on market is >> than the amount which can be gained from selling all stuff belonging to company it is BUBBLE
2021-02-26T07:48:51 < R2COM> if you sell all physical "belongings" of BP, it will costs about same as much it costs on market now
2021-02-26T07:49:04 < R2COM> if you do it with Amazon, you will get payed for logistical stuff, trucks, conveyors, etc
2021-02-26T07:49:15 < R2COM> and that will be tiny FRACTION of what amazon is valued on market
2021-02-26T07:49:19 < R2COM> makes sense ?
2021-02-26T07:49:31 < R2COM> same with Tesla
2021-02-26T07:49:40 < R2COM> just few production lines of electric cars, nothing that big really
2021-02-26T07:49:50 < jpa-> that's a silly way to calculate it, as having a brand and having a functional company structure does have value also
2021-02-26T07:49:54 < R2COM> fraction of stuff which companies like WV, mercedes BMW owe already
2021-02-26T07:50:24 < jadew> I think people are betting on Tesla in the idea that they will be more than a car company
2021-02-26T07:50:28 < jpa-> consider a pure software company, they own just aged laptops but can make a profit of millions per year - do you claim that the company is overvalued?
2021-02-26T07:50:33 < R2COM> its not silly it is the way things are. you can have some pice of turd and fan club who will value it for $$$
2021-02-26T07:50:38 < jadew> they think it will also be a software company that sells to all other car companies
2021-02-26T07:50:43 < R2COM> which is what whole market being driven like that is
2021-02-26T07:51:02 < R2COM> jpa- no, cuz they make IP which *does* cost money
2021-02-26T07:51:09 < R2COM> IP = $$$
2021-02-26T07:51:22 < jpa-> R2COM: *if* they do - what if it is a consulting company with no own IP?
2021-02-26T07:51:43 < R2COM> then they cost as much as their "consulting" is valued
2021-02-26T07:51:53 < R2COM> consulting companies dont cost that much afaik
2021-02-26T07:51:59 < R2COM> again depending on what
2021-02-26T07:52:03 < jpa-> much more than their assets, though
2021-02-26T07:52:06 < R2COM> "consulting" can be called "IP" too
2021-02-26T07:52:43 < R2COM> my company pays hundreds of thousands of dollars for IC design software
2021-02-26T07:52:48 < R2COM> its software IP
2021-02-26T07:53:03 < jpa-> and on the other hand - a bitcoin company could own millions of dollars worth of mining hardware - but that would be of no value if bitcoin crashes - in the same way oil refineries will be mostly worthless if oil usage ever drops down
2021-02-26T07:53:07 < R2COM> Tesla does not make much of IP stuff
2021-02-26T07:53:15 < R2COM> neither does Amazon...maybe some AI related delivery shit
2021-02-26T07:53:21 < R2COM> but...thats not much big stuff tho
2021-02-26T07:53:39 < R2COM> and honestly fuck Tesla btw
2021-02-26T07:53:41 < jpa-> .. tesla does have a completely custom car design and self-driving software for it, which is quite some IP
2021-02-26T07:53:57 < R2COM> soon all electricl cars will be able to do self driving
2021-02-26T07:54:03 < R2COM> its not something what others cannot do
2021-02-26T07:54:21 < jpa-> IC design software is not something what others couldn't do also
2021-02-26T07:54:32 < jadew> I agree, I don't think tesla is going to be unique in that way
2021-02-26T07:54:34 < R2COM> i'd argue about that
2021-02-26T07:54:40 < R2COM> only 2 major companies doing it
2021-02-26T07:54:42 < R2COM> thats it
2021-02-26T07:54:46 < R2COM> electric cars? plenty
2021-02-26T07:54:55 < jadew> soon there's going to be enough sensor data online that every company is going to be able to train really good AIs
2021-02-26T07:54:55 < jpa-> that's just difference in market size
2021-02-26T07:55:00 < R2COM> and self driving so called...doesnt work 100% fully yet
2021-02-26T07:55:18 < R2COM> AI is future
2021-02-26T07:55:26 < R2COM> i think some of the  stuff needs to be fully trusted to AI
2021-02-26T07:55:32 < R2COM> for example jurisdiction system
2021-02-26T07:55:39 < R2COM> cases which sucked $$$$ from people and lasted years
2021-02-26T07:55:44 < R2COM> can be solved within milliseconds by AI
2021-02-26T07:55:51 < R2COM> like..who is right or wrong in court for example
2021-02-26T07:55:59 < R2COM> and btw, thats easy stuff, even easier than self driving
2021-02-26T07:56:17 < jadew> Buffet gave an example in a lecture he held once, about the car industry when it first started
2021-02-26T07:56:18 < R2COM> cuz in courts, or jurisdiction etc, all stuff is decided based on facts and letter of law
2021-02-26T07:56:21 < R2COM> i.e. programming
2021-02-26T07:56:24 < R2COM> => easy
2021-02-26T07:56:28 < jadew> there were lots of manufacturers, but only some of them remained
2021-02-26T07:56:28 < R2COM> so AI would be able to handle it
2021-02-26T07:56:35 < R2COM> even easier than visual recognition
2021-02-26T07:56:42 < jadew> and if you were to pick one, the odds would have been that you would have lost your money
2021-02-26T07:56:43 < R2COM> cuz its all in terms of documents and lines i.e. commands
2021-02-26T07:56:47 < jadew> and I think it's the same with tesla
2021-02-26T07:57:13 < R2COM> Buffet and other old farts are not someone to listen to in 2021
2021-02-26T07:57:14 < jadew> we'll see lots of self-driving and electric companies, and only some will survive
2021-02-26T07:57:21 < jadew> will Tesla be one of them? I don't know
2021-02-26T07:57:27 < R2COM> proly not
2021-02-26T07:57:44 < R2COM> my new "wanna have" car is Porsche Taycan
2021-02-26T07:57:52 < R2COM> i want 2: Porsche Taycan and Audi E-tron
2021-02-26T07:57:55 < jadew> yeah, he doesn't understand technology, but he understands businesses and how they evolve
2021-02-26T07:58:36 < R2COM> i dont think he understands as much as people think, he is just a guy who is relatively sane but lucku cuz he was at the rite time and at the right place and was not dumb enough to make wrong decision
2021-02-26T07:58:37 < R2COM> thats it
2021-02-26T07:58:50 < R2COM> its funny how many people make him look like god
2021-02-26T07:58:59 < R2COM> in fact, some of the stuff he says is such a bullshit
2021-02-26T07:59:15 < jadew> well, that is true, but he still gained some insight into how things work, having done this for a lifetime
2021-02-26T07:59:34 < jadew> I wouldn't disregard his advice on the account that he was just lucky
2021-02-26T08:00:30 < jadew> for example, he made money on the Pfizer stock, I'm losing money on the Pfizer stock
2021-02-26T08:00:48 < jadew> he got in and out within 2-3 months and made 10%
2021-02-26T08:01:22 < R2COM> well, you are not that smart
2021-02-26T08:01:31 < jadew> I would trust his financial advise more than I would trust my own
2021-02-26T08:03:20 < R2COM> but if you good with software why are not you doing games
2021-02-26T08:03:24 < R2COM> seems like its $$$ now
2021-02-26T08:03:38 < R2COM> sometimes i start thinking its "cleaner" than this hardware design im doing
2021-02-26T08:03:47 < R2COM> days and days in labs with equipment and wires and shit
2021-02-26T08:03:59 < R2COM> software... can be so clean and compact, no mess
2021-02-26T08:04:02 < R2COM> + $$$$
2021-02-26T08:04:03 < jadew> it's not, the game industry got crowded by indie developers since 15 years ago
2021-02-26T08:04:23 < R2COM> dont make some stupid ass dumb indie game
2021-02-26T08:04:24 < jadew> I know a few guys who made games
2021-02-26T08:04:27 < jadew> and they're not making that much
2021-02-26T08:04:40 < jadew> well, if you want a super complex game, that will take a lot of time
2021-02-26T08:04:52 < jadew> and who knows if it's going to be addictive enough to actually make money on it
2021-02-26T08:05:06 < jadew> you have to start small, to gain the skill and insight into how to make a good game
2021-02-26T08:05:31 < jadew> otherwise you risk ending up making a big turd that nobody will play
2021-02-26T08:06:17 < R2COM> there are many mechanisms offered by various platforms where you can start early access and feel how community judges it
2021-02-26T08:06:23 < R2COM> and steer further development in a proper way
2021-02-26T08:06:45 < R2COM> dont promise much, dont aim AAA, and dont do stupid shit ass indie (fuck i hate those indie faggots)
2021-02-26T08:06:55 < R2COM> i stopped buying indie games
2021-02-26T08:07:27 < R2COM> i have couple ideas  (as gamer) of what could lift off
2021-02-26T08:07:35 < R2COM> but man... i dont have time for this now
2021-02-26T08:07:42 < jadew> well, if you believe in them, do them
2021-02-26T08:08:42 < R2COM> i need to spare 8 hrs / day for my daily hardware designer job
2021-02-26T08:11:40 < R2COM> at some point i need to liftoff on other stuff, cuz working for corpos is dumb
2021-02-26T08:12:22 < R2COM> you have to be ethical and nice to people and all other dumb shit
2021-02-26T08:12:48 < R2COM> and you have to respect all opinions, even when they are idiotic
2021-02-26T08:13:11 < R2COM> + you cant really get *rich* by working like that
2021-02-26T08:13:22 < R2COM> high pay check != rich
2021-02-26T08:14:48 < jadew> right, not many rich employees
2021-02-26T08:15:00 < R2COM> unless you are CEO etc
2021-02-26T08:15:19 < R2COM> or Senior VP
2021-02-26T08:15:40 < R2COM> but you have to be hanging around in certain circles to get there
2021-02-26T08:16:03 < R2COM> anyway, fuck corpos
2021-02-26T08:16:10 < jpa-> why high pay check != rich? of course not ridicuously rich, but should be easy enough to get reasonably rich so that you can take a few years off work to try whatever project you want
2021-02-26T08:16:13 < R2COM> like apple etc
2021-02-26T08:16:50 < R2COM> you just said some non realistic dumb stuff sorry
2021-02-26T08:17:02 < jadew> high paycheck can definitely give you the opportunity to try stuff
2021-02-26T08:17:08 < R2COM> who the fuck risks high pay check to take "few years off" to try something with risk of it not being lifted off
2021-02-26T08:17:10 < jadew> and you can also invest in the stock market
2021-02-26T08:17:35 < R2COM> there is no such thing as "take few years off" in professional world
2021-02-26T08:17:37 < R2COM> you in ir out
2021-02-26T08:17:47 < jpa-> i consider wasting life more of a risk than having to go a few paygrades down
2021-02-26T08:17:49 < R2COM> or..can do parallel stuff but its hard
2021-02-26T08:18:43 < jpa-> "Oh, I'm paid so much that I can't decide what to do anymore, now I just must keep doing this because it gives me soooo much money!"
2021-02-26T08:19:09 < R2COM> taking few years off some work in some 3rd world country where you can always come back and continue is one thing, and getting off high paycheck and not doing same stuff for what job hunters wanted you for company for few years is a problem
2021-02-26T08:19:14 < R2COM> apparently you have no idea
2021-02-26T08:19:52 < R2COM> switching or abandoning is not as easy as it may seem
2021-02-26T08:20:00 < jpa-> it's what i did anyway
2021-02-26T08:20:41 < jpa-> making about 50% of what I used to, but on the other hand I have more freedom and probably work only 50% of the time also even if I count my all not-so-well paying projects
2021-02-26T08:20:47 < R2COM> i just wrote about places where its easy or hard
2021-02-26T08:20:57 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-26T08:20:59 < R2COM> good for you
2021-02-26T08:21:38 < R2COM> i thought you gonna tell me now a success story that you switched and became millionaire
2021-02-26T08:21:44 < jadew> heh jpa-, your situation is so similar to mine
2021-02-26T08:21:48 < R2COM> and you disappointing me saying that now you do 50% less
2021-02-26T08:21:52 < jpa-> I just can't see what is the point of hanging on to a big paycheck if it doesn't give you freedom to do what you want - of course if your work is what you want to do, no problem with that
2021-02-26T08:21:58 < jadew> R2COM, it's actually better
2021-02-26T08:22:06 < jadew> I enjoy making 50% less too
2021-02-26T08:22:13 < jadew> because I'm only working a fraction of the time
2021-02-26T08:22:22 < jadew> and I work on my terms - whenever I want
2021-02-26T08:22:46 < R2COM> you are living in some shithole country where it might be acceptable and generally people can do without higher salary and still eat and sleep in "ok" condition
2021-02-26T08:22:48 < R2COM> i mean come on
2021-02-26T08:22:49 < jpa-> i'll probably go back to doing more work once the kid is older, but for now I have more worthwhile use for my time
2021-02-26T08:23:01 < R2COM> you forgot about thing called geography 
2021-02-26T08:23:08 < jpa-> ... USA calling Finland "shithole country" :)
2021-02-26T08:23:20 < R2COM> jadew is from where...romania?
2021-02-26T08:23:24 < R2COM> sounds like shithole to me
2021-02-26T08:24:38 < R2COM> just cuz finland is >> russia, doesnt make it top country 
2021-02-26T08:25:07 < R2COM> i mean sure, you can impress people from russia or whatever, but come on..
2021-02-26T08:25:36 < jpa-> you consider it *better* if the country makes it so that people absolutely must work jobs they hate just because of status or career or some crazy things?
2021-02-26T08:26:15 < R2COM> whta crazy things? noone *makes* you work, you wanna live better you work and aim for higher payed job and if necessary study or train to get there
2021-02-26T08:26:20 < jpa-> I don't really want to impress anyone, but I'm quite happy knowing that if I get cancer, treatment doesn't depend on whether I'm employed or how much money I have
2021-02-26T08:26:20 < R2COM> its called capitalism
2021-02-26T08:26:44 < jpa-> how is it "living better" if you can't even do what you want?
2021-02-26T08:27:27 < R2COM> you means who
2021-02-26T08:27:50 < R2COM> if you talking about me, i am in a ballpark of doing what i want, another thing is, i always evolve and want even more
2021-02-26T08:27:52 < jpa-> it means R2COM, who can't take a few years off for their fancy projects
2021-02-26T08:28:32 < R2COM> i just explained that inactivity period hurts your reputatio nand "value" on the job market
2021-02-26T08:28:56 < jpa-> maybe - but what does that matter?
2021-02-26T08:29:11 < R2COM> it wont if your "hobby" lifted off and made you now rich
2021-02-26T08:29:27 < R2COM> so...did you...succeed for all these years you said you been making 50% less?
2021-02-26T08:29:31 < R2COM> was it worth it for YOU?
2021-02-26T08:29:36 < jpa-> I'm already living so good that there is nothing I'd really want to spend more money on
2021-02-26T08:29:57 < jpa-> sure, it is worth to me because I have spent a lot more time with my child than I'd otherwise been able to
2021-02-26T08:30:00 < R2COM> cuz you know... just... being happy for "cuz i have more time and work less" is.... kinda... dunno, not impressive
2021-02-26T08:30:11 < R2COM> well, thats different thing
2021-02-26T08:30:15 < R2COM> its personal thing then
2021-02-26T08:30:15 < jpa-> oh, I'm not trying to impress anyone, that's not my life goal
2021-02-26T08:30:22 < R2COM> dont mess that with another thing i was talking about
2021-02-26T08:31:05 < R2COM> original talk started about "work for corpo for $$$" or "do your own and be $$$$$$$$$"
2021-02-26T08:31:18 < R2COM> not about "ill work less but enjoy X,Y,Z"
2021-02-26T08:31:32 < jpa-> ah, but that wasn't really what I read from your lines
2021-02-26T08:31:40 < jpa-> i read "do your own because you want to do it"
2021-02-26T08:31:49 < jpa-> i didn't realize you are only thinking about money
2021-02-26T08:32:20 < R2COM> sure you do cuz you want to do it, but you want to do something what in parallel would bring $$$$$
2021-02-26T08:33:12 < jpa-> or might not
2021-02-26T08:33:18 < R2COM> killing off 50% of your income just to.... "do cool stuff i like" is.... not mature, honestly
2021-02-26T08:34:00 < jpa-> heh
2021-02-26T08:34:40 < jpa-> that's a bit of how I felt for a time, the more income the less power to decide what to do, because "it's irresponsible to do anything that makes me less money"
2021-02-26T08:35:03 < R2COM> unless you...truly value that and ready to pay... say someone makes $50k year... and he is about to get 50% less... it means... are you ready to pay $25k YEARLY for some hobby?
2021-02-26T08:35:03 < jpa-> then i realized that's just bullshit and there is no point running after huge amounts of money, enough is enough
2021-02-26T08:35:06 < R2COM> thats it
2021-02-26T08:35:11 -!- nikomo_ is now known as nikomo
2021-02-26T08:36:33 < R2COM> i feel like im talking to some monk
2021-02-26T08:36:43 < R2COM> thats fine thol everyone rides the way he wants
2021-02-26T08:37:19 < jpa-> i no longer regard money as the ultimate measure of value - more like just a means to an end
2021-02-26T08:38:06 < jpa-> if i get enough to buy food, pay for housing, save for retirement etc; further money has pretty small amount of value
2021-02-26T08:39:04 < R2COM> its ok, world needs people like you too
2021-02-26T08:39:21 < jpa-> thanks for the acceptance, i'm relieved
2021-02-26T08:39:58 < jpa-> karlp is gonna have one mighty backlog of stuff to crawl through this morning ;)
2021-02-26T08:41:08 < R2COM> ok its time to play cyberpunk2077
2021-02-26T08:41:17 < R2COM> see, im about to do stuff i enjoy right now
2021-02-26T08:58:53 < zyp> jpa-, as I see it, the question is what is «enough»
2021-02-26T09:03:45 < jpa-> zyp: true, that's going to be very individual
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2021-02-26T09:06:09 < R2COM> enough is when she keeps sucking but you already came
2021-02-26T09:10:01 < zyp> I'd like to work less, but I'm good at spending money and I don't want to have to spend less :)
2021-02-26T09:10:54 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/max77975.png    when I have a weird footprint like this, do I put solder paste on all copper or just part of it? the chip itself has smaller pad areas, shown in the image to the right
2021-02-26T09:12:06 < zyp> yeah, that looks annoying to get right
2021-02-26T09:13:27 < R2COM> solder paste layer must equal chip pad area, and total exposed land a bit over that
2021-02-26T09:13:56 < R2COM> if area is very large its typically arrayed in boxes of solder paste grid
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2021-02-26T09:57:00 < jadew> personally, I took the pay cut because I want more money and freedom
2021-02-26T09:57:19 < jadew> and even with that paycut, I'm still ok
2021-02-26T09:58:01 < jadew> without quitting my job, I wouldn't have had time/drive to figure things out
2021-02-26T09:58:25 < jadew> haven't figured them out yet :) but that's what I'm working for
2021-02-26T09:58:46 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip174-74-227-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2021-02-26T09:59:50 < jadew> holding on to a job is pretty taxing and it's not safe at all in the long run
2021-02-26T10:01:00 < jadew> technology could have a major shift that simply lets you on the outside, when you're kinda old to catch up but you still have a decent chunk of your work life ahead that you kind have to catch up
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2021-02-26T10:01:29 < jadew> *kind of
2021-02-26T10:03:04 < jadew> I remember when I went out for the first time at an hour at which I was usually working... man, that felt weird
2021-02-26T10:03:44 < jadew> it was like I broke loose from some chains and I didn't know if it was ok to be there
2021-02-26T10:04:39 < jadew> (I had that job for 12 years)
2021-02-26T10:05:01 < zyp> what sort of slavery environment is that?
2021-02-26T10:05:29 < jadew> the kind where you get to build whatever software the company requires and you have to work the usual hours
2021-02-26T10:05:45 < zyp> I'm at work now -- if I wanted to I could walk out, take a stroll, eat an ice cream, fuck off, do whatever
2021-02-26T10:06:05 < jadew> well, yeah, I could take half an hour off too
2021-02-26T10:06:19 < jadew> but go out for a drink? a meal at a restaurant?
2021-02-26T10:06:22 < jadew> no way...
2021-02-26T10:06:29 < zyp> why not?
2021-02-26T10:06:34 < jadew> would take too long
2021-02-26T10:06:50 < jadew> can you go away for 1-2 hours?
2021-02-26T10:06:57 < zyp> sure?
2021-02-26T10:07:15 < jadew> well, I couldn't... or at least I didn't try :)
2021-02-26T10:07:38 < zyp> every dev job I've had came with flexible hours
2021-02-26T10:07:56 < jadew> well, it depends what you're doing
2021-02-26T10:08:27 < jadew> the company was running lots of money all the time and if something went wrong, minutes were costing thousdans of dollars
2021-02-26T10:09:19 < jadew> maybe I took my 9 to 5 too seriously, don't know
2021-02-26T10:09:30 < jadew> that wasn't the only issue anyway
2021-02-26T10:09:36 < jadew> I was tired of the same type of projects
2021-02-26T10:09:58 < jadew> I had lots of flexibility in how I could do things, but it was the same crap over and over again
2021-02-26T10:10:31 < zyp> one job I had had core hours 9-14 where it was expected you'd be in the office, but they weren't very strict about that
2021-02-26T10:10:43 < zyp> and other jobs haven't even bothered specifying core hours
2021-02-26T10:10:53 < jadew> well, that's pretty cool
2021-02-26T10:11:16 < jadew> on my contract stuff, it's whenever I feel like it
2021-02-26T10:11:20 < zyp> so as long as I'm available for meetings and work enough hours, I can choose when to work those hours
2021-02-26T10:11:25 < jadew> and I charge a $100 fee for emergencies
2021-02-26T10:11:49 < jadew> zyp, yeah, that is ideal
2021-02-26T10:12:42 < zyp> although I don't really like staying late at the office, so it generally ends up being something between 8-16 and 9-17
2021-02-26T10:13:35 < jadew> was considering moving to Norway the other day, but I understand the language sucks :P
2021-02-26T10:14:06 < jadew> I think "it doesn't sound like anything else" came up in an article
2021-02-26T10:14:10 < zyp> more so than other languages?
2021-02-26T10:14:18 < zyp> heh
2021-02-26T10:14:37 < jadew> yeah, apparently it's more difficult to learn than other languages
2021-02-26T10:14:48 < zyp> that's a strange assertion, considering both swedish and danish are more or less mutually intellegible
2021-02-26T10:15:33 < jadew> I would have thought it would be closer to german, in which case I would have given it more thought
2021-02-26T10:16:04 < jadew> my wife already speaks german and I have some very basic understanding
2021-02-26T10:17:09 < jadew> I think it was presented as having the same level of difficulty as learning taiwanese :)
2021-02-26T10:17:09 < zyp> there's obvious similarities to german too, but not to the point where knowing one lets you understand the other
2021-02-26T10:17:41 < zyp> dutch seems closer
2021-02-26T10:18:03 < zyp> dutch sounds like a hybrid between norwegian and german
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2021-02-26T10:18:38 < jadew> too bad it's not just one
2021-02-26T10:18:52 < mawkkkk> dutch is like english grammar
2021-02-26T10:18:54 < jadew> I wonder if the languages will eventually merge or get more different
2021-02-26T10:19:13 < mawkkkk> languages can't merge
2021-02-26T10:19:17 < mawkkkk> god wouldn't allow it
2021-02-26T10:19:28 < mawkkkk> he didn't make the tower of babel for nothing
2021-02-26T10:19:34 < mawkkkk> fear his might
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2021-02-26T10:19:59 < jadew> we have an impostor
2021-02-26T10:20:09 < mawkkkk> lol
2021-02-26T10:20:15 < mawkkkk> no it's both me and me
2021-02-26T10:20:22 < mawkkkk> I just had my server disconnected for some reason
2021-02-26T10:20:23 < ou5x> https://xkcd.com/2421/
2021-02-26T10:20:32 < mawkkkk> they blocked its port for "dhcp flood" which doesn't make sense
2021-02-26T10:20:48 < mawkkkk> I don't use dhcp client on that server, only for ipv6 but it was disabled
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2021-02-26T10:27:19 < mawkkkk> ohno
2021-02-26T10:27:24 < mawkkkk> broken again
2021-02-26T10:27:30 < mawkkkk> come back mawk
2021-02-26T10:37:20 < Steffanx> Bastard 
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2021-02-26T12:10:39 < karlp> jpa-: nah, don'ðt really need to read muhc of aretoo's philosophy, beenthere done that..
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2021-02-26T12:54:17 < qyx> zyp: wheres your new laks scheduling voodoo code?
2021-02-26T12:54:24 < qyx> I cannot find it in the githubbed laks
2021-02-26T12:54:40 < zyp> still WIP
2021-02-26T12:55:17 < qyx> oh it was probably only on paste.jvnv
2021-02-26T12:55:46 < zyp> what parts are you interested in?
2021-02-26T12:56:15 < qyx> the awaitables you pasted recently
2021-02-26T12:58:21 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/9QOsg <- here's the normal async function template, this part I believe is more or less done
2021-02-26T12:59:52 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/5GYCU <- and here's the scheduler stuff that hooks up tasks and futures
2021-02-26T13:00:13 < zyp> that part I'm still planning to work some more on
2021-02-26T13:01:08 < zyp> and then I have some loose blocks like the time scheduler and whatnot that haven't yet been put into headers
2021-02-26T13:03:02 < qyx> thanks
2021-02-26T13:03:05 < qyx> I broke your pomodoro
2021-02-26T13:03:50 < qyx> (we were discussing those features with ventyl ^)
2021-02-26T13:06:27 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/8a5U2 <- here's some assorted pieces (time scheduler, async queue, etc…)
2021-02-26T13:07:17 < zyp> async_flag is more or less equivalent to a future<void>, except it's self resetting
2021-02-26T13:08:29 < zyp> and I've since concluded that I don't need it to be self resetting, just need the locking
2021-02-26T13:08:48 < zyp> so eventually I'll be folding them back together
2021-02-26T13:27:35 < Steffanx> You know this ventyl guy personally, qyx?
2021-02-26T13:28:32 < qyx> semi-personally
2021-02-26T13:35:49 < Steffanx> Aha. I'm still considering ##stm32 to be my "2nd life" and dont want the 2 worlds to collide :D
2021-02-26T13:38:26 < qyx> yeah
2021-02-26T13:38:53 < effractur> lol
2021-02-26T13:39:20 < qyx> good to hear you are considering us your second-life
2021-02-26T13:45:24 < Steffanx> 2nd does not say something about importance, qyx. Just an order in which they appeared.
2021-02-26T13:49:07 < qyx> oh even better
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2021-02-26T14:47:14 < jadew> just saw a movie and I liked it: "Bridge of spies"
2021-02-26T14:54:37 < karlp> that's the old john le carre book based one?
2021-02-26T14:55:01 < karlp> nope, never mind
2021-02-26T14:59:28 < Steffanx> Such T. Hanks movie 
2021-02-26T15:02:59 < jadew> rewatched Cast away, a couple of weeks ago
2021-02-26T15:03:26 < jadew> my son enjoyed it, said he never wants us to fly again
2021-02-26T15:24:58 < mawk> are you sure ##stm32 wasn't here before your own life Steffanx 
2021-02-26T15:25:03 < mawk> information flows outside of space and time
2021-02-26T15:25:13 < mawk> in the spiritual continuum of our ancestors
2021-02-26T15:25:40 < mawk> subscribe to my chakra opening e-book to know more
2021-02-26T15:26:56 < Steffanx> Time to watch all Final Destination movies with him, jadew
2021-02-26T15:28:33 < Steffanx> Mawk: I was talking about when the worlds appeared to me. And im sure I have the order right. 
2021-02-26T15:28:58 < mawk> what you don't remember your past lives?
2021-02-26T15:29:01 < mawk> everyone does
2021-02-26T15:30:10 < Steffanx> What Iif you get your girlfriend pregnant now and she has your baby. You go back in time and get her another one. Who's your first child?
2021-02-26T15:30:40 < mawk> "first" is ill-defined
2021-02-26T15:31:44 < Steffanx> See, it's a useless discussion. 
2021-02-26T15:31:51 < mawk> :(
2021-02-26T15:33:31 < qyx> :D
2021-02-26T15:34:07 < mawk> look Steffanx https://serveur.io/eink4.jpg
2021-02-26T15:34:28 < mawk> it's red
2021-02-26T15:35:34 < Steffanx> Sexy 
2021-02-26T15:37:15 < qyx> a-what?
2021-02-26T15:37:36 < mawk> it's the first row of my keyboard qyx 
2021-02-26T15:37:43 < mawk> you have the sad inferior qwerty
2021-02-26T15:37:45  * qyx slaps mawk with a qwertz keyboard
2021-02-26T15:37:46 < mawk> and I have azerty
2021-02-26T15:37:48 < mawk> :(
2021-02-26T15:40:04 < Steffanx> qwertz?! QWERTY
2021-02-26T15:40:22 < qyx> z, Steffanx 
2021-02-26T15:42:06  * kakium69 drools
2021-02-26T15:42:34 < kakium69> how much such epaper costs?
2021-02-26T15:43:35 < Steffanx> 100 billion
2021-02-26T15:43:40 < kakium69> I want it
2021-02-26T15:43:55 < Steffanx> Ask waveshare they sell it
2021-02-26T15:44:43 < Steffanx> Around 30 euro bucks, kakium69  on the internet of china
2021-02-26T15:54:09 < jadew> Steffanx, cast away is not like that, it's just emotionally powerful, but other than that just a couple of dead people
2021-02-26T15:55:45 < mawk> kakium69: mine was 30€
2021-02-26T15:55:49 < mawk> it's 3 colors 4.2"
2021-02-26T15:56:13 < mawk> jadew: some weird things can traumatize kids even if it's not a lot of dead
2021-02-26T15:57:28 < jadew> mawk, don't know man, my kid seems insensitive to most scary things
2021-02-26T15:58:14 < jadew> never taught him to be afraid of monsters or anything of the sort
2021-02-26T15:59:02 < jadew> when he saw his first people dying in movies, he wanted to know how they died (what process in their body actually caused the death)
2021-02-26T15:59:03 < mawk> what really desensitized me is the internet
2021-02-26T15:59:09 < mawk> when I was 12 or whatever
2021-02-26T15:59:27 < mawk> but before that I used to be scare of silly things like chicken getting eaten in a cartoon where the main characters were chicken
2021-02-26T15:59:35 < mawk> that was a bit weird though even thinking about it now
2021-02-26T15:59:36 < jadew> well, movie violence is not the same as real violence
2021-02-26T15:59:50 < jadew> when you see real violence, even in video format, it hits hard
2021-02-26T15:59:55 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-26T16:00:03 < mawk> that's why I set liveleak.com as my homepage to be prepared for everything
2021-02-26T16:00:11 < jadew> heh
2021-02-26T16:00:21 < mawk> actually my homepage is google.fr
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2021-02-26T16:01:22 < kakium69> does colors make epaper slower?
2021-02-26T16:01:39 < mawk> probably yes
2021-02-26T16:01:45 < mawk> you have to to do the scanning for each color separately
2021-02-26T16:01:53 < mawk> mine takes like 10-20s to refresh
2021-02-26T16:01:59 < mawk> I'm trying partial window but it's not glorious
2021-02-26T16:02:04 < jadew> and it might require a different cleaning procedure
2021-02-26T16:02:29 < jadew> extra step for the red
2021-02-26T16:04:54 < englishman> when mawk was 12, ##stm32 was created
2021-02-26T16:05:02 < mawk> :(
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2021-02-26T16:19:59 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-02-26T16:20:40 < mawk> I tried partial window, and even when scanning only the sources and gates inside the window it takes the less time qyx 
2021-02-26T16:20:42 < mawk> so as with yours
2021-02-26T16:20:45 < mawk> also it looks ugly
2021-02-26T16:20:50 < mawk> it makes a border around the partial window
2021-02-26T16:20:55 < mawk> but I can change the border color
2021-02-26T16:21:46 < mawk> PT_SCAN:
2021-02-26T16:21:48 < mawk>  0: Gates scan only inside of the partial window.
2021-02-26T16:21:52 < mawk> this looked promising, but it has no effect
2021-02-26T16:21:59 < qyx> yeah,same here
2021-02-26T16:22:01 < qyx> one sec
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2021-02-26T16:23:31 < mawk> the red is what takes the most time kakium69 
2021-02-26T16:23:37 < mawk> and the 7 colors one must take even longer
2021-02-26T16:23:39 < mawk> like a minute or so
2021-02-26T16:23:53 < mawk> there's a black&white only mode in it but I couldn't make it work for now
2021-02-26T16:24:03 < mawk> so maybe I can paint red elements, then refresh only the black and it's quick
2021-02-26T16:24:34 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/0L2Kc
2021-02-26T16:24:50 < qyx> the frame around test1/2 was drawn without full refresh
2021-02-26T16:28:40 < mawk> I see yeah
2021-02-26T16:28:47 < mawk> yeah you have to choose the color of the frame for some reason
2021-02-26T16:28:55 < mawk> and when you leave it floating it's this off white color
2021-02-26T16:30:43 < mawk> ah I see what the "scan inside gates only" parameter does
2021-02-26T16:30:50 < mawk> I think
2021-02-26T16:31:04 < mawk> it makes the area opposite of the partial window fade away with each partial refresh
2021-02-26T16:31:06 < mawk> very ugl
2021-02-26T16:31:08 < mawk> y
2021-02-26T16:31:41 < mawk> or not, I don't know, it seems to be the same without the parameter
2021-02-26T16:31:49 < qyx> those einks are generally unusable for anything else than price tags :S
2021-02-26T16:31:53 < mawk> the datasheet says it can't be updated in plain sunlight, I don't know why
2021-02-26T16:31:57 < mawk> let's try
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2021-02-26T16:32:29 < zyp> they are good for price tags though
2021-02-26T16:32:47 < mawk> they still have to be refreshed like 3×/day right?
2021-02-26T16:32:51 < mawk> otherwise the image gets burnt on it
2021-02-26T16:33:16 < qyx> idk, this one hasn't been refreshed for over a nyet
2021-02-26T16:33:21 < qyx> *a year
2021-02-26T16:33:38 < mawk> and you can still change tthe contents without ghost images?
2021-02-26T16:33:49 < mawk> it probably depends on temperature as well, and illumination
2021-02-26T16:33:53 < mawk> also if it's stored vertically or not
2021-02-26T16:34:14 < qyx> idk, I didn't try
2021-02-26T16:34:19 < mawk> ah
2021-02-26T16:34:24 < mawk> then it's probably burnt on it
2021-02-26T16:34:30 < mawk> it should be stored as white image, face upwards
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2021-02-26T16:40:04 < srk> jadew: my 660 GTX with 3 fans had pretty much the same perf as just heatsinked 1030 
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2021-02-26T16:41:53 < qyx> re stm32u5: SMPS versions of L4 have ~40 uA/MHz too
2021-02-26T16:42:00 < qyx> this one claims 19 uA though
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2021-02-26T16:43:35 < qyx> oh octospi, so it is similar to L4+
2021-02-26T16:45:33 < qyx> no datasheet yet :(
2021-02-26T16:50:59 < Laurenceb> u5
2021-02-26T16:51:04 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-02-26T16:51:52 < Laurenceb> can octospi be used "raw" without the commands?
2021-02-26T17:03:16 < Laurenceb> >China apologises for forcing Bidens team to be anally probed. About 50 members of the team were anally penetrated to search for coronavirus
2021-02-26T17:12:29 < Laurenceb> u5 looks like enhanced l5
2021-02-26T17:12:34 < Laurenceb> lpdma looks good
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2021-02-26T18:05:03 < karlp> qyx: yeah, they said it was l4+ target price, but m33, so like l5.
2021-02-26T18:07:40 < qyx> is M33 doable with OSS tools?
2021-02-26T18:07:51 < qyx> someone mentioned the trust thingy cannot beleft unconfigured
2021-02-26T18:08:37 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yes, octospi can be used raw (enable only data phase)
2021-02-26T18:08:59 < Laurenceb> jpa-: neat
2021-02-26T18:09:11 < jpa-> Laurenceb: but at least STM32H7 seems to have a limit of 4GB - the reference manual claims that it would continue indefinitely but for me it always stops after 4GB
2021-02-26T18:09:13 < Laurenceb> qyx: given that arm support gcc one would have hoped...
2021-02-26T18:12:53 < englishman> hardware fpu on u5?
2021-02-26T18:14:41 < jpa-> mawk, qyx: if eink is stored long without refresh, one needs a longer refresh cycle (more blinks) to avoid ghost images, but AFAIK there is nothing permanent as such
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2021-02-26T18:14:54 < mawk> ah weird
2021-02-26T18:15:03 < mawk> maybe especially cheap ones are like that jpa- ?
2021-02-26T18:15:27 < jpa-> all, i think - but it's usually not a big issue
2021-02-26T18:15:47 < mawk> I mean maybe cheap ones can get a burnt image
2021-02-26T18:15:58 < mawk> probably if qyx gets motivated one day to refresh his screen we will know
2021-02-26T18:16:00 < jpa-> it's just that the fast update waveforms rely on knowing the last state of pixels, but the charge slowly bleeds away and is less well defined after long time
2021-02-26T18:16:30 < mawk> hm
2021-02-26T18:16:38 < mawk> well that's for high end screens then right
2021-02-26T18:16:45 < mawk> there's nothing fast about the refresh of my screen
2021-02-26T18:16:51 < mawk> and it doesn't seem to rely on previous state
2021-02-26T18:16:57 < mawk> there is a mode to do so apparently, but I can't make it to work
2021-02-26T18:17:07 < jpa-> well then :)
2021-02-26T18:17:18 < jpa-> i didn't implement such smart things either, blinkity blink works fine
2021-02-26T18:17:19 < mawk> it takes like 20s
2021-02-26T18:17:27 < jpa-> oh, is it a color screen?
2021-02-26T18:17:44 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-26T18:17:46 < mawk> https://serveur.io/VID_20210226_153619.mp4
2021-02-26T18:17:50 < mawk> red black white
2021-02-26T18:17:59 < jpa-> yeah.. not sure if those can be fast updated at all
2021-02-26T18:17:59 < qyx> my 3 colour one took 15 s to refresh
2021-02-26T18:18:04 < mawk> maybe I should re-encode the video
2021-02-26T18:18:04 < qyx> and a b/w one about 4 s
2021-02-26T18:19:31 < mawk> I'll try one more time the B&W only mode
2021-02-26T18:19:32 < jpa-> the higher-end b/w ones can do 7 FPS video - and it's actually semi-decent looking
2021-02-26T18:19:36 < mawk> or send a message to the manufacturer
2021-02-26T18:19:38 < mawk> nice
2021-02-26T18:19:42 < mawk> where do I sign
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2021-02-26T18:39:42 < Laurenceb> til about X2Y
2021-02-26T18:39:54 < Laurenceb> v useful for muh hyperloop strain gauges
2021-02-26T18:40:24 < Laurenceb> looks like everyone at hyperloop goes home after lunch on friday
2021-02-26T18:40:28 < Laurenceb> slackers lol
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2021-02-26T18:43:30 < mawk> you spend the day on irc Laurenceb 
2021-02-26T18:43:52 < Laurenceb> kek
2021-02-26T18:44:08 < Laurenceb> speak for urself
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2021-02-26T18:49:48 < Laurenceb> I need a script to low pass filter email activity and display a scrolling graph
2021-02-26T18:50:05 < Laurenceb> it was about 1/30s this morning, now none for 10 minutes
2021-02-26T18:50:25 < Laurenceb> 4:50pm, tiem to call it quits lol
2021-02-26T18:51:13 < mawk> slacker
2021-02-26T19:01:14 < englishman> are you really working on memeloop laurent
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2021-02-26T19:45:22 < karlp> hrm, running ethernet over fpc cable is a bad idea for emmissions right?
2021-02-26T19:45:33 < karlp> that doesn't really seem like something I should be doing...
2021-02-26T19:53:31 < qyx> arent there fpc cables with a "ground plane" from the bottom?
2021-02-26T19:53:44 < qyx> (I have seen such MIPI cables)
2021-02-26T19:55:17 < qyx> and I wouldn't be concerned much, you run tens of metres with unshielded TP
2021-02-26T19:57:15 < englishman> yeah there are probably some off the shelf fpc for that
2021-02-26T19:57:21 < englishman> that are properly impedance matched
2021-02-26T19:57:39 < englishman> if not you can just make one
2021-02-26T19:58:29 < jpa-> i wouldn't expect much problems either, as long as you keep the pairs next to each other
2021-02-26T19:59:07 < jpa-> for 100Mbps, you could run 10 cm or so with poor impedance matching without any significant issues
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2021-02-26T20:01:11 < machinehum> Anyone got a tip for cutting down solder stencils?
2021-02-26T20:01:22 < machinehum> I don't need a 2" by 2" stencil
2021-02-26T20:01:38 < englishman> that already sounds extremely small
2021-02-26T20:01:41 < machinehum> Metal shears just bend the shit outta it
2021-02-26T20:01:43 < machinehum> Sorry
2021-02-26T20:01:46 < machinehum> 2' x 2'
2021-02-26T20:01:53 < machinehum> idk how to use the yank units
2021-02-26T20:02:03 < englishman> scissors work
2021-02-26T20:18:31 < qyx> Steffanx: https://twitter.com/PercyRover/status/1365308233297100807
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2021-02-26T20:43:08 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/P1020813.JPG  owons arrived
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2021-02-26T20:45:18 < englishman> such esd
2021-02-26T20:46:52 < Steffanx> thanks qyx  :)
2021-02-26T20:47:10 < Steffanx> You're welcome jpa- 
2021-02-26T20:47:28 < Steffanx> im sorry for the delays
2021-02-26T20:47:34 < PaulFertser> What is the blower fan for?
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2021-02-26T20:50:04 < Laurenceb> <englishman> are you really working on memeloop laurent
2021-02-26T20:50:09 < Laurenceb> yes, but not the meme one
2021-02-26T20:50:20 < Laurenceb> a clone thats much more sane
2021-02-26T20:51:24 < jpa-> PaulFertser: blows off solder fumes
2021-02-26T20:52:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: no worries, it teleported directly from oirschot to here, so it didn't take that long after all
2021-02-26T20:52:40 < PaulFertser> jpa-: it's just that it looks like it's blowing right in the face rather than on the table.
2021-02-26T20:53:30 < jpa-> PaulFertser: ah, it is mounted on just one screw so i can direct it.. but after messing with the shelving it is just pointing in random direction
2021-02-26T20:53:31 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb, the way you talk about it, i get the idea its not really more sane in the end
2021-02-26T20:54:50 < PaulFertser> jpa-: get the idea. Interesting that it works as it's still blowing towards you
2021-02-26T20:55:22 < Laurenceb> Steffanx:unlike musk hyperloop it doesnt violate the laws of physics
2021-02-26T20:55:23 < jpa-> PaulFertser: it actually blows kind of sideways to the point where i usually solder
2021-02-26T20:55:56 < Steffanx> Time to get some cheap tubing etc. and suck the fumes away.
2021-02-26T20:56:09  * Laurenceb has been tasked with the traction controller
2021-02-26T20:56:18 < jpa-> tubing is simple, a good sucker is difficult and a good filter is costly
2021-02-26T20:56:22 < jpa-> but i've been considering it
2021-02-26T20:56:31 < Laurenceb> the problem is the emi from the drive motors is just so bad
2021-02-26T20:57:22 < englishman> over in production they have expensive and noisy fume extractors, but people hate them so everyone just puts a lil computer fan on a tube
2021-02-26T20:59:30 < mouseghost> jpa-, owo
2021-02-26T21:01:12 < Steffanx> owon.
2021-02-26T21:02:34 < Steffanx> i like the diy style we used to have at work.. @ production. 
2021-02-26T21:03:29 < Steffanx> with was just some random pvc (?) tubing
2021-02-26T21:07:52 < Steffanx> with some rubber seals in the tubing so it was still pretty easy to move/rotate it. i guess usually used as drain pipes/tubes?
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2021-02-26T21:24:38 < qyx> Steffanx: it disappeared :(
2021-02-26T21:27:51 < Steffanx> "it"  qyx ?
2021-02-26T21:28:06 < Steffanx> kakium69 got time for some real dutch musics?
2021-02-26T21:28:17 < qyx> the waffel thing
2021-02-26T21:28:31 < Steffanx> still there for me
2021-02-26T21:28:43 < qyx> fuk twatter blocking me
2021-02-26T21:29:06 < qyx> oh it's back
2021-02-26T21:30:25 < Steffanx> alright kakium69, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=416U2zYWbSA
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2021-02-26T23:08:20 < t4nk_freenode> neone here got any experience modding an xbox360?
2021-02-26T23:08:44 < catphish> i used to do that for purely piracy reasons
2021-02-26T23:09:31 < qyx> *educational reasons
2021-02-26T23:09:33 < t4nk_freenode> wanna buy such a glitch thingie board, but I think I got a falcon console, 2008, not sure if a matrix glitcher v3 will work
2021-02-26T23:09:55 < t4nk_freenode> yeah me too, both educational as privacy ;)
2021-02-26T23:10:04 < t4nk_freenode> ah
2021-02-26T23:10:11 < t4nk_freenode> I just got up ;)
2021-02-26T23:10:17 < t4nk_freenode> PIRACY
2021-02-26T23:10:52 < t4nk_freenode> well, tbh.. not me, not piracy, honest... purely in this case though :))
2021-02-26T23:11:17 < t4nk_freenode> I bought all my games legally, I found it expensive but had no objections at the time
2021-02-26T23:11:55 < t4nk_freenode> the big problem is that my dvd drive is like a washing machine drum that's loose inside the washer
2021-02-26T23:12:07 < t4nk_freenode> I wanna get rid of that
2021-02-26T23:13:18 < englishman> i remember doing that
2021-02-26T23:13:19 < catphish> xbox 360 modding has developed a lot, back when i did it, it was purely a matter of replacing the DVD drive firmware
2021-02-26T23:13:23 < englishman> flashing some benq drive
2021-02-26T23:13:29 < englishman> then another drive to burn the discs
2021-02-26T23:13:33 < englishman> yeah
2021-02-26T23:13:59 < englishman> there was even a nice website with pages for each drive like the 3ds hacking site has now
2021-02-26T23:14:31 < catphish> so, you'd rip a code from the original drive, patch it into a new firmware, and burn that into the drive (or a replacement drive), then you had to buy insanely priced dvd+r-dl disks to burn games
2021-02-26T23:14:39 < catphish> but since then, i assume proper non-piracy mods exist
2021-02-26T23:15:28 < englishman> you can install games to the HD to keep the disc from spinning all the time. also much faster loading
2021-02-26T23:15:34 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, it would work, but I cannot understate the horror of that dvd drive of mine... 
2021-02-26T23:15:39 < englishman> and you can put in a 1tb HD or something
2021-02-26T23:16:13 < t4nk_freenode> I figure if you connected a usb drive... it would take longer for the games to load
2021-02-26T23:16:25 < englishman> no, like the HD addon thing that sits on the side
2021-02-26T23:16:53 < t4nk_freenode> like sata you mean?
2021-02-26T23:17:39 < englishman> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Hard-Drives.jpg
2021-02-26T23:18:15 < t4nk_freenode> mmmmm that has to be sata, right?
2021-02-26T23:18:41 < englishman> probably. it was much faster than loading from disc anyway
2021-02-26T23:18:48 < englishman> big difference in fallout 3
2021-02-26T23:19:39 < t4nk_freenode> gears of war 2 was in my xbox bundle... then I bought fallout 3, and I was completely charmed
2021-02-26T23:19:56 < t4nk_freenode> from the music to the gameplay
2021-02-26T23:20:33 < t4nk_freenode> was brilliant... then I bough new vegas orsth, and just couldn't stand the game anymore
2021-02-26T23:20:48 < t4nk_freenode> later I tried fallout4 on pc.. same story, boring
2021-02-26T23:20:50 < englishman> yes i didn't like new vegas very much
2021-02-26T23:20:55 < englishman> nor outer worlds
2021-02-26T23:24:21 < catphish> fallout 4 was fun enough, but much like cyberpunk, disapointing in terms of hiding very fixed storylines in a large open world
2021-02-26T23:25:05 < catphish> i enjoyed outer world, because it was fun and linear, and didn't pretend to be an RPG
2021-02-26T23:25:45 < catphish> i am getting bored of games that really want to be skyrim, but are actually just a boring linear game, set in a pointlessly large open world
2021-02-26T23:26:07 < englishman> have you played witcher 3
2021-02-26T23:26:35 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, lol.. in fo3 I really liked turning over each and every rock.... not so much anymore
2021-02-26T23:26:47 < catphish> englishman: i've actually tried to play it twice, but i just don't enjoy it, not because there's anything wrong with the game, but because i like guns
2021-02-26T23:26:49 < t4nk_freenode> never played witcher
2021-02-26T23:27:04 < catphish> i don't like the combat, and i'm not good at it :(
2021-02-26T23:27:15 < englishman> it has a steep learning curve
2021-02-26T23:27:52 < catphish> i loved the earlier open world RPGs like FO3 and skyrim, where the world wasn't silly large, but everything was worth uncovering
2021-02-26T23:28:21 < t4nk_freenode> ever heard of Woodruff and the Schnibble of Azimuth? that was my favorite game ever
2021-02-26T23:28:32 < catphish> and where conversational choices actually mattered, at least somewhat
2021-02-26T23:28:52 < catphish> t4nk_freenode: nope
2021-02-26T23:29:05 < t4nk_freenode> before your time, most probably ;)
2021-02-26T23:29:55 < catphish> my favourite game ever was deus ex, it kinda sucks now, but it was revolutionary at the time, in terms of combination of story, openness, and RPG
2021-02-26T23:30:38 < t4nk_freenode> gta IV was nice too
2021-02-26T23:31:06 < catphish> i spend crazy hours on both GTA 2 and 3 as a kid
2021-02-26T23:34:05 < catphish> those old point and click games were cool at the time :) i used to like lure of the temptress, and discworld 2
2021-02-26T23:35:45 < t4nk_freenode> and this other series, ehhhh king's quest, I liked some of the later games in the series
2021-02-26T23:36:02 < t4nk_freenode> I miss those kind of games
2021-02-26T23:36:23 < t4nk_freenode> *cry*, life was easier back then
2021-02-26T23:38:33 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, I forgot all about 'Wonderboy deluxe', that was my favorite arcade game, I could finish the game with one puppet
2021-02-26T23:38:44 < t4nk_freenode> ppl would gather 'round as I was playing
2021-02-26T23:40:47 < t4nk_freenode> mmmm 1986! :b
2021-02-26T23:41:53 < Steffanx> You're old
2021-02-26T23:42:22 < t4nk_freenode> I'm willing to bet you are at least one year older, Steffi!
2021-02-26T23:42:42 < Steffanx> I'm from after 1986.
2021-02-26T23:42:49 < t4nk_freenode> seriously?
2021-02-26T23:42:56 < Steffanx> Yessir
2021-02-26T23:42:58 < t4nk_freenode> I thought you'd be my age
2021-02-26T23:45:14 < catphish> 1986 was the year i started existing, so there's that
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2021-02-27T00:54:17 < machinehum1> If you omit the 2x 20 whatver ohm resistors on a USB data line
2021-02-27T00:54:22 < machinehum1> Will it still work
2021-02-27T00:54:56 < machinehum1> Pretty stupid question wondering if anyone has tried
2021-02-27T00:56:02 < kakium69> those are for impendance matching
2021-02-27T00:56:32 < kakium69> you want to robbust your usb and those 20ohm resistors are in your way?
2021-02-27T00:57:14 < kakium69> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/are-these-usb-series-resistors-important/
2021-02-27T00:59:24 < machinehum1> "worth risking to save two resistors"
2021-02-27T00:59:37 < machinehum1> Dude look everyone reading this thread just forget them
2021-02-27T00:59:56 < machinehum1> No one is seriously considering this as a design choice
2021-02-27T00:59:58 < machinehum1> Thanks
2021-02-27T01:00:41 < kakium69> are those resistors impendance matching?
2021-02-27T01:01:45 < kakium69> anyway
2021-02-27T01:01:56 < zyp> machinehum1, your question is not precise enough
2021-02-27T01:02:11 < zyp> it varies whether the chip already got internal termination or not
2021-02-27T01:02:15 < kakium69> using reference design has always been way to success with minimal effort
2021-02-27T01:02:29 < kakium69> those are "guaranteed" to work
2021-02-27T01:02:41 < zyp> meh, not necessarily right
2021-02-27T01:02:59 < zyp> I think one of my designs have both internal and external termination, still works :)
2021-02-27T01:06:36 < machinehum1> All of the STM32F1 ref designs have external resistors
2021-02-27T01:06:45 < machinehum1> But I forgot them
2021-02-27T01:09:24 < kakium69> if it's not build for some compliance just roll with it
2021-02-27T01:09:53 < kakium69> it most likelly works
2021-02-27T01:11:25 < machinehum1> Actually I just found an app not that says you don't need em
2021-02-27T01:11:27 < machinehum1> hmm
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2021-02-27T02:42:32 < t4nk_freenode> hmmz. so I'm reading about matrix spi usb programmers to buy... to me I just see a darned pic18f on that board, not much more
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2021-02-27T03:54:20 < vegii> uh
2021-02-27T03:54:41 < vegii> any point using stm8 nowadays?
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2021-02-27T03:55:37 < vegii> apparently this is active https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm8l051f3.html
2021-02-27T03:56:30 < vegii> but then there's this stm32L1
2021-02-27T03:56:49 < vegii> *stm32L100C6
2021-02-27T03:57:37 < vegii> *-A
2021-02-27T03:58:04 < vegii> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32l100c6-a.html
2021-02-27T04:00:26 < vegii> huh, not cheap though
2021-02-27T04:01:32 < vegii> maybe I should use f103 instead...
2021-02-27T04:05:40 < vegii> or maybe not
2021-02-27T04:06:35 < vegii> maybe squeezing shit onto the stm8 will teach me something
2021-02-27T04:10:11 < vegii> the board is just 3 buttons, a speaker, few LEDs... and a 40x70 OLED
2021-02-27T04:11:24 < vegii> and I might wanna add an nRF24... probably should use nRF52 instead of the stm then
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2021-02-27T04:33:03 < R2COM> according to what you wrote you might as well just go and do arduino
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2021-02-27T11:20:31 < ventyl> vegii: probably only legacy aplications. STM8 is automotive certified, so stuff like electric window controllers are full of them
2021-02-27T11:20:51 < ventyl> AVR is also automotive certified, but I think that a lot of them lack CAN and/or LIN
2021-02-27T11:26:26 < invzim> pros, which peripheral (i.e. which pin), should I use to measure a tach signal coming from a fan, I suspect it's a timer port?
2021-02-27T11:27:53 < jpa-> invzim: any TIMx_CHy channel should be fine
2021-02-27T11:28:18 < jpa-> you can also do it with interrupts on any GPIO pin, but that will cause more CPU load
2021-02-27T11:28:50 < invzim> making a thingie, and someone wanted a fan header for noctua fans - so may as well route the pwm and tach signals to the stm32
2021-02-27T11:31:04 < invzim> allright, tim4 it is - thanks jpa- !
2021-02-27T11:32:26 < invzim> note to self: define pinouts in cube before routing pcb to ensure no peripheral conflicts
2021-02-27T11:37:57 < ventyl> to cube or not to cube?
2021-02-27T11:38:53 < invzim> if you need to do something cube actually does OK, cube any time of the day
2021-02-27T11:40:53 < jpa-> friends don't let friends cube
2021-02-27T11:40:53 < ventyl> it is probably okay for people who are mostly hardware developers. but i am mostly sw dev, who hack some HW from time to time and for me cube doesn't play well
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2021-02-27T12:47:37 < qyx> I got a spam from Sophia
2021-02-27T12:47:38 < qyx> Witstec is qualified ESL/ E-Paper device provider. Our company professional manufacture not only hardware but also software, which assure you no worry about the after sale service.
2021-02-27T12:47:41 < qyx> 1.54”/ 2.13”/ 2.9”/ 4.2”/ 7.5” ESL/ E-Paper device are available. Are you interest to get our catalog with pricelist?
2021-02-27T12:48:00 < qyx> where is mawk
2021-02-27T12:48:15 < qyx> he can enlarge his e-ink from sophia
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2021-02-27T17:38:20 < kakium69> medical instrument assembly/repair y/n?
2021-02-27T17:38:57 < jadew> as a job or for kicks?
2021-02-27T17:39:11 < kakium69> both?
2021-02-27T17:39:22 < jadew> will you be liable if something goes wrong?
2021-02-27T17:39:31 < kakium69> ah
2021-02-27T17:39:54 < kakium69> ofc there is liability things
2021-02-27T17:42:32 < kakium69> it depends
2021-02-27T17:45:08 < Sadale> I've got a question on PCB design for STM32 microcontroller. I've noticed that on the datasheet, there's a "Power Supply Scheme" section. It said that the VDD needs a 4.7uF+100nF, and the VDDA needs a 1uF+10nF cap. For the 100nF adn the 10nF ones, I think I'm supposed to put them close to the VDD and VDDA. As for the 1uF and the 4.7uF ones, I wonder where I'm supposed to put them.
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2021-02-27T17:53:44 < qyx> a bit further, because they cannot be on the same place
2021-02-27T17:54:03 < qyx> interesting, since when there is 1u + 10n recommended on VDDA?
2021-02-27T17:54:11 < qyx> what stm32?
2021-02-27T17:55:49 < Sadale> STM32FSTM32F070F6P6. I found it interesting that it isn't recommending 100n as well.
2021-02-27T17:57:16 < Sadale> qyx, BTW, if I've got a bulk capacitor on the output of the voltage regulator, would I still need those 1uF and 4.7uF capacitors?
2021-02-27T17:58:37 < qyx> I usually have caps on the SMPS output (eg. 2x 10u), ferrite bead, 1x10u going to a power plane
2021-02-27T17:59:14 < qyx> then I place 1 or 2 10u or 4u7 bulk caps close to the stm32
2021-02-27T17:59:30 < qyx> and then 100n on every VDD
2021-02-27T17:59:51 < qyx> I feed VDDA using a ferrite bead from VDD + 1u + 100n
2021-02-27T18:00:14 < qyx> and when using LDO, theres usually only a 1u cap on the LDO output
2021-02-27T18:00:57 < qyx> and in this case I am using only a single 1u per VDDA close to the MCU and the rest is the same
2021-02-27T18:00:59 < Sadale> I see. So the 1u and the 4u7 would be somewhere close to STM32. But it isn't exactly on the same place as the 100n caps.
2021-02-27T18:01:26 < qyx> A am not using LDOs when I expect higher currents
2021-02-27T18:01:44 < qyx> it depends
2021-02-27T18:02:24 < qyx> if you don't have any power plane, place them at the point where you fanout traces going to VDDs
2021-02-27T18:02:34 < qyx> at least I am doing it that way
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2021-02-27T18:04:05 < R2COM> sup
2021-02-27T18:04:21 < Sadale> ah. Indeed I probably wouldn't have a power plane.
2021-02-27T18:05:06 < Sadale> qyx, another question. Why there's a need of separate bulk cap for VDD and VDDA?
2021-02-27T18:07:10 < qyx> idk if it makes any sense if you feed VDDA from VDD directly
2021-02-27T18:07:41 < qyx> but it does if it is part of a filter with a coil/ferrite bead
2021-02-27T18:08:33 < qyx> if the LDO was close to the MCU, I would omit those caps
2021-02-27T18:08:39 < Sadale> hmm. Indeed. If there's a actual separate power supply for both VDD and VDDA, it does make sense.
2021-02-27T18:08:59 < qyx> and fanout all VDDs and VDDA through a bead directly from the LDO output cap(s)
2021-02-27T18:09:18 < BrainDamage> in theory, it should, for best accuracy
2021-02-27T18:09:24 < BrainDamage> but most don't need that
2021-02-27T18:10:07 < BrainDamage> analog circuits tend to draw current constantly, while digital do in spikes, so a strong lowpass filter works well
2021-02-27T18:10:07 < qyx> yeah if VREF is fed directly from VDDA
2021-02-27T18:11:02 < R2COM> through what bead? :)
2021-02-27T18:11:40 < Sadale> That's what I'm thinking about. If both VDD and VDDA are using the same power supply, why'd I want a bulk cap for VDD and another one for VDDA?
2021-02-27T18:12:04 < Sadale> I could just combine the two by adding the values of the two caps up. :P
2021-02-27T18:12:17 < R2COM> thats not the way how its done
2021-02-27T18:12:51 < Sadale> R2COM, here's the context before you've joined tho: I've got a question on PCB design for STM32 microcontroller. I've noticed that on the datasheet, there's a "Power Supply Scheme" section. It said that the VDD needs a 4.7uF+100nF, and the VDDA needs a 1uF+10nF cap. For the 100nF adn the 10nF ones, I think I'm supposed to put them close to the VDD and VDDA. As for the 1uF and the 4.7uF ones, I wonder where I'm supposed to put them.
2021-02-27T18:12:57 < R2COM> you have say noisy VIN, then it goes into a filter, but output of that filter is VIN_CLEAN (for example), and AGND
2021-02-27T18:14:10 < BrainDamage> ideally you should add both, and a coil in the mid, so it forms a pi filter
2021-02-27T18:14:54 < BrainDamage> there's a tiiny bit of variation in the freq response of a cap based off its value, esr and esl
2021-02-27T18:15:17 < qyx> also I though the general consensus here is not to innovate GNDA and better keep one concise GND plane
2021-02-27T18:15:19 < BrainDamage> so 2 caps of half the value in parallel behave differently from a large one with the sum
2021-02-27T18:15:53 < BrainDamage> but generally, you don't care about that level of stabilty
2021-02-27T18:16:14 < BrainDamage> otherwise you'd also be looking at the PSRR of the bandgap reference, etcc
2021-02-27T18:17:09 < BrainDamage> ( the bandgap is powered from VDDA, so even if you don't use it as ref and use the bandgap, variation in VDDA reflect on the bandgap divided by the PSRR )
2021-02-27T18:17:54 < BrainDamage> but generally the PSRR is 40-60dB, so you get the fluctuations divided by 100-1000
2021-02-27T18:18:25 < BrainDamage> so unless your VDD floats a like a car's bus rail, you don't really care
2021-02-27T18:19:03 < BrainDamage> and if you need high level of accuracy, you'd be using an external adc anyway
2021-02-27T18:19:13 < tct> wtf is a car´s bus rail?
2021-02-27T18:19:31 < tct> voltage supply on the CAN bus?
2021-02-27T18:19:34 < BrainDamage> the stuff that's attached to the battery in a car
2021-02-27T18:19:37 < tct> or direct 12V?
2021-02-27T18:19:40 < tct> ajt
2021-02-27T18:19:57 < BrainDamage> which fluctuates from 9 to 16V
2021-02-27T18:20:04 < tct> they would have a converter between the battery and the actual power supply I assume
2021-02-27T18:20:10 < tct> so the bus rail should not behave like that?
2021-02-27T18:20:19 < tct> assuming by bus you refer to the communication systems.
2021-02-27T18:20:22 < tct> not power distribution.
2021-02-27T18:20:30 < BrainDamage> yes, that's why I said "like"
2021-02-27T18:20:37 < BrainDamage> not "connected to"
2021-02-27T18:21:00 < BrainDamage> as in, just an example of a horrible regulated power rail
2021-02-27T18:21:07 < tct> sorry, didn´t mean to be nit-picking. my brain was jsut like wtf
2021-02-27T18:21:18 < tct> jup, I get that (now)
2021-02-27T18:21:43 < Steffanx> lol tct 
2021-02-27T18:22:13 < tct> yeah sry :p
2021-02-27T18:22:49 < Steffanx> time for diner.. better make some hutspot
2021-02-27T18:24:13 < R2COM> here is a guideline i did for low noise power supplies arrangement
2021-02-27T18:24:14 < R2COM> https://i.imgur.com/6yC7ZuV.png
2021-02-27T18:24:27 < tct> R2COM still alive, that´s nice
2021-02-27T18:24:48 < tct> still in murica?
2021-02-27T18:24:53 < Steffanx> is it nice?
2021-02-27T18:24:58 < R2COM> on the bottom it shows criteria for bead selection (it mostly depends from which parasitic frequencies you wanna protect Analog supoply line)
2021-02-27T18:25:11 < tct> yeah, I like it when people are still around when I drop by here after a long absence on my side :)
2021-02-27T18:25:31 < Steffanx> He's still the same asshole :P
2021-02-27T18:26:57 < tct> gotta go, woman wants to share a drink on the terasse
2021-02-27T18:27:02 < R2COM> before you finalize design, you have to download spice circuit model for planned bead, and do AC sweep and make sure there is no peaking
2021-02-27T18:27:27 < Sadale> R2COM, is the 0ohm resistor the bead?
2021-02-27T18:27:31 < R2COM> no...
2021-02-27T18:27:34 < R2COM> bead is on bottom
2021-02-27T18:27:35 < Sadale> :o
2021-02-27T18:27:44 < Steffanx> luckily for you they are open, tct 
2021-02-27T18:27:48 < R2COM> that symbol as parallelogram
2021-02-27T18:27:52 < Sadale> ah.
2021-02-27T18:27:54 < R2COM> 0 ohm resistor is just real resistor
2021-02-27T18:28:05 < Sadale> I thought that the bead would have a symbol similar to an inductor
2021-02-27T18:28:06 < R2COM> (or can be PCB trace short)
2021-02-27T18:28:20 < englishman> altium PDN analyzer is an amazing way to simulate real ground plane effects on analolgue circuitry
2021-02-27T18:28:29 < englishman> i was able to perfectly recreate some offset issues we were seeing
2021-02-27T18:28:46 < R2COM> (i typically use 0 ohm resistor because sometimes i wanna connect both GNDs with bead too, but for special occasions..)
2021-02-27T18:29:18 < R2COM> P3V3 is noisy supply with its regular GND
2021-02-27T18:29:25 < Sadale> R2COM, instead of using a 0ohm resistor, why not using, says, a trace to connect both of the grounds?
2021-02-27T18:29:27 < R2COM> P3V3A is filtered by bead+cap with AGND
2021-02-27T18:29:33 < R2COM> thats what i said
2021-02-27T18:29:35 < R2COM> you can use trace
2021-02-27T18:29:40 < Sadale> ah. cool!
2021-02-27T18:29:44 < englishman> mostly for DC effects however, AC effects are harder to simulate (more ADS stuff) but also easier to isolate with good practices
2021-02-27T18:29:51 < R2COM> but that trace must exist only in 1 (one) place
2021-02-27T18:29:56 < R2COM> and in some far corner
2021-02-27T18:30:10 < Sadale> I see.
2021-02-27T18:30:12 < R2COM> where there is no return current flow in nearby switching (noisy) elements
2021-02-27T18:30:21 < tct> Steffanx, the terasse that belongs to our apartment 
2021-02-27T18:30:42 < Steffanx> Ah lol.
2021-02-27T18:30:44 < Sadale> Now that I come to think of it, what kind of components should use analog power supply, and what kind of components should use the digical one?
2021-02-27T18:30:48 < tct> but yeah... while most neighbouring countries are increasing covid-19 measures swissland decided to re-open stuff on monday...
2021-02-27T18:31:01 < R2COM> what you mean?
2021-02-27T18:31:53 < Sadale> Let's say that I've got components other than the microcontroller. What components should use the 3V3 after passing thru the bead, and what components should use the one before passing thru the bead?
2021-02-27T18:32:07 < Sadale> It's like determining which component is digital, and which component's analog.
2021-02-27T18:32:27 < qyx> do you need any analog on th board?
2021-02-27T18:32:28 < R2COM> you use what datasheet says
2021-02-27T18:32:31 < qyx> are you using ADC?
2021-02-27T18:32:33 < R2COM> one larger cap + smaller ceramics
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2021-02-27T18:32:46 < Sadale> qyx, nope.
2021-02-27T18:32:53 < R2COM> btw ADC on stm32 has its limitations and not that "great"
2021-02-27T18:32:53 < qyx> then fukit altogether
2021-02-27T18:33:01 < R2COM> so wouldnt consider it for anything serious
2021-02-27T18:33:07 < Sadale> qyx, I'm just interested in learning the "proper" way to do stuffs. Maybe I'd need ADC in the future. :p
2021-02-27T18:33:15 < R2COM> but it can be made much less noisy with shown techniques
2021-02-27T18:33:24 < Sadale> Currently when I put everything together regardless if I'm using ADC or not :p
2021-02-27T18:33:44 < Sadale> But I'd like to learn more about how it should be handled. Maybe I'd need that in the future.
2021-02-27T18:38:51 < qyx> intermezzo, wny idea why this feedback thing gives 7V on the output instead of 5? https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PO5yI/Screenshot_2021-02-27_17-36-58.png
2021-02-27T18:38:59 < Sadale> Let's say, if I've got an LED that's driven by a transistor (without PWM), I suppose it should be connected with the VDDA of the MCU. However, if it's using PWM, would it be a better idea for me to connect its power with the VDD of the MCU?
2021-02-27T18:39:34 < Sadale> hmm. Perhaps it's ok to just share the same VDD with MCU because rippling doesn't really matter for an LED. I'm not entirely sure tho.
2021-02-27T18:39:58 < qyx> yeah no point connecting LED to VDDA
2021-02-27T18:40:03 < qyx> the less things on the VDDA, the better
2021-02-27T18:40:47 < qyx> a diode can inject noise too (citation needed), but I am not a noise pro
2021-02-27T18:40:48 < Sadale> cool! :D
2021-02-27T18:41:03 < BrainDamage> shot noise
2021-02-27T18:41:13 < qyx> BrainDamage is a noise pro
2021-02-27T18:41:30 < Sadale> Thank you qyx and R2COM. You guys helped a lot. I have been looking for info about how this VDD and VDDA thingie work online without luck.
2021-02-27T18:41:41 < englishman> photodiode noise is a wonderful science
2021-02-27T18:42:35 < qyx> and now tell me why the damned TL431 is making jokes of me
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2021-02-27T18:43:56 < R2COM> qyx manufacturer?
2021-02-27T18:44:29 < R2COM> step#1: buy from TI, or ADI
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2021-02-27T18:47:57 < qyx> hm, I cannot find the bag right now
2021-02-27T18:48:08 < qyx> presumably TI
2021-02-27T18:48:19 < qyx> no diotec, diodes or similar
2021-02-27T18:49:36 < R2COM> damn some people use such long lines for source code
2021-02-27T18:49:42 < R2COM> annoys the shit out of me
2021-02-27T18:49:55 < R2COM> heh also online others people still believe column max should be 80
2021-02-27T18:49:57 < R2COM> like in 2021
2021-02-27T18:49:58 < R2COM> lol
2021-02-27T18:50:05 < R2COM> i was always riding with 100
2021-02-27T18:50:08 < R2COM> but im increasing it now
2021-02-27T18:50:11 < R2COM> let it be.... 120
2021-02-27T18:50:28 < R2COM> 120 lines = can open 3 windows in MSVC, yet with other stuff seen
2021-02-27T18:50:35 < R2COM> or 4 windows in vim on full screen
2021-02-27T18:50:39 < R2COM> with 4k of course
2021-02-27T18:50:59 < BrainDamage> I just use infinite lines and let my editor soft wrap them to fit my screen and font size
2021-02-27T18:51:56 < R2COM> anyone can use anything he wants, but what you said would suck for those who inherit code from you
2021-02-27T18:52:01 < R2COM> and who never like to do word wrap
2021-02-27T18:52:24 < R2COM> i never turn on word wrap, i just dont like it
2021-02-27T18:52:56 < R2COM> word wrap may be ok for regular text but not for code, since for readability i break it at the "right" place myself
2021-02-27T18:54:09 < BrainDamage> I break only when it makes logical sense, like or, etc
2021-02-27T18:54:18 < BrainDamage> sorry, chained bool, etc
2021-02-27T19:00:31 < karlp> re ethernet over fpc, I wasnt' at all concerned abotu it _working_ I was more concerned abotu certifying the product if it's emissions are gross frrom having it like that,
2021-02-27T19:00:54 < karlp> and I don't want to get any sort of special cabling.
2021-02-27T19:02:11 < karlp> what soldering iron dos jpa have?
2021-02-27T19:03:25 < mawk> magnifying glass + sun
2021-02-27T19:03:59 < englishman> "special" fpc isn't as special as you think
2021-02-27T19:04:11 < englishman> it's just another pcb to order
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2021-02-27T19:54:06 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://github.com/DidierRLopes/GamestonkTerminal
2021-02-27T19:55:19 < mawk> my man dider
2021-02-27T19:55:22 < mawk> didier*
2021-02-27T19:55:30 < englishman> cool
2021-02-27T20:03:16 < karlp> what was qyx's opto circuit doing?
2021-02-27T20:04:06 < karlp> englishman: well, I may be misusing fpc and ffc terminology,
2021-02-27T20:05:08 < qyx> it is a feedback circuit for this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/YunGF/Screenshot_2021-02-27_19-04-53.png
2021-02-27T20:05:15 < karlp> like just this sort of shit: https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/cable/0152660315
2021-02-27T20:05:43 < qyx> but in the refsch theres a TL431 with 1.24 V ref voltage
2021-02-27T20:05:50 < qyx> I have one with 2.45 V
2021-02-27T20:06:12 < qyx> so I simply changed those two resistors to 47k both
2021-02-27T20:07:07 < qyx> but wut, theres indeed 2.45 V on the divider
2021-02-27T20:07:20 < karlp> so 0.3mm thick "standard" straight ffc
2021-02-27T20:07:27 < qyx> but I don't quite get where from
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2021-02-27T20:17:13 < qyx> fuk there are two pinning options
2021-02-27T20:17:15 < qyx> mirrored
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2021-02-27T21:04:01 < fenugrec_> qyx,  you probbly had the tlv431 1.24V ref then - lower power, lower Vk_max
2021-02-27T21:05:14 < fenugrec_> or yea the tl432 mirror version
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2021-02-27T21:11:49 < qyx> meh i cannot scope the primary
2021-02-27T21:14:05 < qyx> I could try with the ground at PE
2021-02-27T21:14:13 < qyx> it is cat II 400V, hopefully
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2021-02-27T22:23:39 < karlp> just use one of these: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/MFM-10-12/7707282
2021-02-27T22:24:20 < karlp> I mena, that's catIII, you can get cheaper and smaller if you only need cat II
2021-02-27T22:25:26 < qyx> I mean the scope is cat II
2021-02-27T22:25:32  * qyx survived
2021-02-27T22:25:42 < karlp> but are you trying to build a catIII supply or what?
2021-02-27T22:26:19 < qyx> no, cat II 10 mm low profile one
2021-02-27T22:26:42 < qyx> in the pcie form factor
2021-02-27T22:26:58 < karlp> oh, you even sunk your xformer into a cutout didn't uyou
2021-02-27T22:27:01 < karlp> ok, have fun :)
2021-02-27T22:27:04 < qyx> yeah
2021-02-27T22:27:05 < qyx> works now
2021-02-27T22:27:19 < karlp> (though a lot of my juggling recently was also to work around the 3d box shape of the module we picked.
2021-02-27T22:27:24 < qyx> I had to empirically choose few resistors as datasheet says
2021-02-27T22:27:26 < karlp> stilll cheaper than doing it by hand
2021-02-27T22:27:45 < qyx> and not use the values TI webench calculated
2021-02-27T22:29:21 < karlp> groovy
2021-02-27T22:31:33 < karlp> I hate these sorts of ones that are like, oh, you still need your own x and y caps, and also yoru own input pi filter: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mornsun-america-llc/LS05-13B12R3/13531111
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2021-02-27T22:44:18 < Steffanx> So dont use it :)
2021-02-27T22:44:22 < karlp> I don't
2021-02-27T22:44:28 < karlp> they'r ejust cheekily priced :)
2021-02-27T22:44:28 < Steffanx> Alright 
2021-02-27T22:46:23 < englishman> it does say diy converter
2021-02-27T23:47:47 < jpa-> karlp: TS100
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--- Day changed Sun Feb 28 2021
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2021-02-28T01:01:37 < qyx> re pcie obsession: 2U subrack https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bqyIz
2021-02-28T01:01:56 < qyx> looks a bit crowded
2021-02-28T01:02:14 < qyx> I need to order front panels
2021-02-28T01:02:23 < aandrew> nice mechanical design
2021-02-28T01:03:11 < qyx> those are standard components
2021-02-28T01:21:55 -!- fenugrec [~f@97.107.220.18] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-28T01:23:51 < Laurenceb> wtf is it?
2021-02-28T01:27:18 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvM0l7PWQAglmHO?format=jpg&name=small
2021-02-28T01:32:03 < Laurenceb> holy shit lollllllllllllll
2021-02-28T01:32:16 < Laurenceb> >hyperloop welded the wheel bearings together
2021-02-28T01:32:20 < Laurenceb> with EMI
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2021-02-28T02:20:11 < aandrew> qyx: what is the standard that that enclosure uses and is made from
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2021-02-28T02:50:57 < qyx> aandrew: the same as used by cPCI(-a), PXI, VME, etc. 
2021-02-28T02:51:05 < qyx> classic 19" rack stuff, the subrack part IEC 60297-3-101
2021-02-28T02:51:33 < qyx> except it is adopted for 2U, the IEC defines only 3U and 6U
2021-02-28T02:51:42 < qyx> so the side panels are custom lasered
2021-02-28T02:53:21 < qyx> board width is 55.55 mm in this case, depth is 80 mm, same as rear-IO boards use, guide rails are the read-IO type
2021-02-28T02:53:33 < qyx> except they are not that common
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2021-02-28T02:53:53 < qyx> s/read/rear
2021-02-28T03:00:22 < aandrew> interesting
2021-02-28T03:04:25 < R2COM> aandrew can you remind which oss soft you used for 3d printing
2021-02-28T03:05:22 < qyx> aandrew: https://schroff.nvent.com/en-gb/solutions/schroff/applications/19-subracks-and-chassis
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2021-02-28T03:09:38 < aandrew> R2COM: for 3d printing? you mean modelling or the slicer?
2021-02-28T03:10:29 < aandrew> I am not much of a modeller, and I just use cura
2021-02-28T03:10:33 < R2COM> yeah
2021-02-28T03:10:46 < R2COM> can blender also do it
2021-02-28T03:11:13 < aandrew> possibly, but I think freecad would be better than blender for engineering type stuff
2021-02-28T03:12:22 < qyx> don't pros use solidworks
2021-02-28T03:28:36 < qyx> hm, 150x100 mm 4L is still quite expensive at jlcpcb
2021-02-28T03:29:33 < qyx> the price break is apparently at 100 mm
2021-02-28T04:43:56 < fenugrec> Wow, 2 seagate HDD duds in a row
2021-02-28T04:45:09 < fenugrec> won't be buying ST4000NV008 again I guess
2021-02-28T04:47:45 < R2COM> who buys HDD for 4tb in 2021...
2021-02-28T04:49:12 < fenugrec> I don't need 16T ?
2021-02-28T04:51:58 < aandrew> R2COM: $ sudo lsblk -Sl
2021-02-28T04:51:58 < aandrew> NAME HCTL       TYPE VENDOR   MODEL             REV TRAN
2021-02-28T04:51:58 < aandrew> sdf  0:0:6:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EZRZ-22G 0A80 sas
2021-02-28T04:51:58 < aandrew> sdd  0:0:4:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EFAX-68J 0A82 sas
2021-02-28T04:51:58 < aandrew> sdm  6:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:00 < aandrew> sdb  0:0:2:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2CV1 0001 sas
2021-02-28T04:52:03 < aandrew> sdk  4:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:05 < aandrew> sdi  3:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM006-2DM1 CC26 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:08 < aandrew> sdg  1:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM001-1ER1 CC25 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:10 < aandrew> sde  0:0:5:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EFAX-68J 0A82 sas
2021-02-28T04:52:13 < aandrew> sdc  0:0:3:0    disk ATA      WDC WD40EZRZ-00G 0A80 sas
2021-02-28T04:52:15 < aandrew> sdl  5:0:0:0    disk ATA      ST2000DM001-1ER1 CC25 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:18 < aandrew> sda  0:0:1:0    disk ATA      ST4000DM004-2CV1 0001 sas
2021-02-28T04:52:20 < aandrew> sdh  2:0:0:0    disk ATA      WDC WD20EZRX-00D 0A80 sata
2021-02-28T04:52:23 < aandrew> me, for example
2021-02-28T04:52:25 < aandrew> bought in 2020 but close enough
2021-02-28T04:52:50 < fenugrec> you're such a plebean with your puny 12-disk array
2021-02-28T04:53:01 < aandrew> fenugrec: lol
2021-02-28T04:53:31 < aandrew> the sas unit can store 12, and I have another 6 in the server. it's not nearly full 
2021-02-28T04:53:46 < aandrew> if you want to talk about being a plebian, this is all with mdadm and lvm and xfs
2021-02-28T04:53:50 < aandrew> I don't like zfs
2021-02-28T04:54:05 < fenugrec> I see a lot of segate in there... hope you have better luck than me
2021-02-28T04:54:48 < fenugrec> it took 1 month to RMA the first (clowns @ canadacomputers). Maybe I'll get a good one before 2022
2021-02-28T04:55:22 < aandrew> fenugrec: I either didn't know or forgot you were canadian
2021-02-28T04:55:34 < fenugrec> nah I just pretend good, haha
2021-02-28T04:55:42 < aandrew> about 1/3 came from canada computers, 1/3 from newegg and 1/3 from amazon
2021-02-28T04:55:53 < aandrew> the whole point for me was different vendors/models/batches
2021-02-28T04:56:02 < fenugrec> right
2021-02-28T04:56:21 < fenugrec> don't want a contiguous block of sernos, eh
2021-02-28T04:56:51 < aandrew> yep
2021-02-28T04:57:07 < fenugrec> aandrew, just for fun, what are you seeing on smart attribute #7 "Seek error rate" on your ST's ?
2021-02-28T04:58:00 < aandrew> moment let me check
2021-02-28T04:59:10 < fenugrec> smartctl /dev/sdb -a | grep "error_rate" -i
2021-02-28T04:59:19 < fenugrec> oops, $ smartctl /dev/sdb -a | grep "seek_error_rate" -i
2021-02-28T05:02:27 < aandrew> /dev/sda  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       501509622
2021-02-28T05:02:31 < aandrew> /dev/sdb  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       79528920
2021-02-28T05:02:34 < aandrew> /dev/sdc  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:02:36 < aandrew> /dev/sdd  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:02:39 < aandrew> /dev/sde  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:02:43 < aandrew> /dev/sdf  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:02:46 < aandrew> /dev/sdg  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   088   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       4973098366
2021-02-28T05:02:49 < aandrew> /dev/sdh  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    O
2021-02-28T05:02:53 < aandrew> /dev/sdi  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   088   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       684736030
2021-02-28T05:02:56 < aandrew> /dev/sdk  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       651494042
2021-02-28T05:02:59 < aandrew> /dev/sdl  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   089   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       893205156
2021-02-28T05:03:02 < aandrew> /dev/sdm  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       604498721
2021-02-28T05:03:51 < aandrew> hm, it seems the WDCs don't record that
2021-02-28T05:03:53 < fenugrec> interesting, all the ST's report some value below 100%
2021-02-28T05:06:05 < aandrew> none of my drives show a temp above 31 at worst (and are all 20/21 right now)
2021-02-28T05:10:50 < fenugrec> ah interesting, attr 7 is a multibyte param, needs ' smartctl -a -v 1,raw48:54 /dev/sdX'
2021-02-28T05:11:56 < aandrew> I don't see any difference
2021-02-28T05:13:10 < fenugrec> oops that's "7,raw48:54"
2021-02-28T05:14:24 < aandrew> that's different
2021-02-28T05:14:25 < aandrew> /dev/sda  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:28 < aandrew> /dev/sdb  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   079   060   045    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:31 < aandrew> /dev/sdc  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:34 < aandrew> /dev/sdd  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:37 < aandrew> /dev/sde  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:40 < aandrew> /dev/sdf  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:43 < aandrew> /dev/sdg  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   088   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       1
2021-02-28T05:14:46 < aandrew> /dev/sdh  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       - 
2021-02-28T05:14:49 < aandrew> 	/dev/sdi  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   088   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:52 < aandrew> 	/dev/sdk  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:55 < aandrew> 	/dev/sdl  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   089   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:14:58 < aandrew> 	/dev/sdm  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
2021-02-28T05:15:46 < fenugrec> heh sdg will be the one to watch !
2021-02-28T05:15:53 < aandrew> yeah it's got the longest runtime too
2021-02-28T05:16:05 < aandrew> 52364h if it can be trusted
2021-02-28T05:16:24 < aandrew> followed by sdl at 43931h
2021-02-28T05:16:28 < fenugrec> I think so - I just retired one at 59kh
2021-02-28T05:16:57 < aandrew> no, there's no way there's 2100 days on that drive
2021-02-28T05:17:09 < aandrew> that's almost 6 years
2021-02-28T05:17:16 < fenugrec> mine was on 24/7 for the past few years, makes sense. Mfgdate 2011
2021-02-28T05:18:41 < aandrew> hm, maybe
2021-02-28T05:18:48 < aandrew> warranty expired feb 2017
2021-02-28T05:19:04 < aandrew> I can't find the mfgdate electronically I don't think
2021-02-28T05:20:28 < aandrew> powered up 43 times in 6 years though, heh
2021-02-28T05:20:58 < fenugrec> so a full reboot every ~ 2 months on average ? cool
2021-02-28T05:22:17 < aandrew> yeah that won't be right, I bet those came in batches as I was setting up and testing the array
2021-02-28T05:22:47 < aandrew> depending on the blade I usually have close to a year of uptime before something makes me reboot
2021-02-28T05:22:54 < aandrew> but the ones in the sas bay will be rebooted far less
2021-02-28T05:23:12 < fenugrec> you don't reboot to update linux-kernel ?
2021-02-28T05:24:19 < aandrew> I rarely update the kernel
2021-02-28T05:30:42 < mawk> aandrew = mega vulnerable
2021-02-28T05:33:23 < fenugrec> interesting read re seagate seek_error_rate, http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/Seagate_SER_RRER_HEC.html
2021-02-28T05:33:46 < fenugrec> tldr : the normalized value = -10log(seek_errs / lifetime_seeks)
2021-02-28T05:34:05 < fenugrec> so it improves with time
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2021-02-28T06:14:21 < Sadale> Does active buzzer require current limiting resistor. If driven with transistor, would it require flyback diode?
2021-02-28T06:14:40 < Sadale> The internet said that it doesn't require current limiting resistor, which I found questionable. :/
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2021-02-28T09:22:06 < jpa-> R2COM: i'd recommend openscad or solvespace for CAD-style modeling; openscad if you like coding stuff up, solvespace if you rather want to draw it
2021-02-28T09:22:56 < jpa-> Sadale: datasheet should tell, but usually they are used without resistor unless you need to limit the volume
2021-02-28T09:23:46 < Sadale> Thanks jpa-. Too bad there's no datasheet for the particular model of the buzzer I'm purchasing. I don't even know what exact model number it is. :P
2021-02-28T09:24:10 < jpa-> :)
2021-02-28T09:24:23 < jpa-> adding a resistor may be safer if you don't know the correct voltage either
2021-02-28T09:25:27 < Sadale> Oh. I know the correct voltage.
2021-02-28T09:25:42 < Sadale> Ok. I'll reserve a couple of pads for the resistor.
2021-02-28T09:26:10 < Sadale> What about flyback diode? Would the active buzzer generate any back EMF when it's turned off?
2021-02-28T09:27:43 < jpa-> i'd expect it to have it internally if it needs one
2021-02-28T09:27:58 < jpa-> if it is piezo based, it doesn't have much back-EMF to start with
2021-02-28T09:28:11 < Sadale> ah. Cool! Didn't know that.
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2021-02-28T10:16:00 < dongs> zyp: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/june-18-2019-kb4503294-os-build-14393-3053-abcd70b9-7271-b243-c41d-a00295976bde
2021-02-28T10:16:06 < dongs> zyp Addresses an issue that causes a loss of audio when Windows hasn't been restarted for more than 50 days.
2021-02-28T10:16:20 < dongs> idk if you fucked with USB audio class stuff but
2021-02-28T10:16:27 < dongs> is tehre anythign in tehre thats 32bit that would cause this kinda shit?
2021-02-28T10:17:12 < zyp> heh, wat
2021-02-28T10:17:21 < zyp> can't think of anything, no
2021-02-28T10:17:58 < dongs> its hitting a piece of software thats recording shit 24/7, using 8 channel USB>audio thing, it stops after 49.7 or whatever days and resumes 24.x days later (1/2 of 49)
2021-02-28T10:18:01 < jpa-> windows has that classic 49.7 days overflow of its 32 bit ticks
2021-02-28T10:18:04 < dongs> yes
2021-02-28T10:18:19 < dongs> but im curious what hte fuck it could be doing with htem and usb audio
2021-02-28T10:18:23 < jpa-> so probably a driver thing
2021-02-28T10:18:30 < dongs> apparently this does not affect PCIe soundcards
2021-02-28T10:19:18 < dongs> PCI/PCI Express インターフェースのサウンドボードを増設し、この音声入出力をご利用いただく。
2021-02-28T10:19:21 < dongs> 当社では下記サウンドボードの増設にて、49.7 日経過後も問題なくサウンドの入出力ができることを確認しています。 
2021-02-28T10:19:30 < dongs> japs tested with pcie audio and says it doesnt have a problem after 49 days
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2021-02-28T13:42:42 < qyx> A third-party OAuth application (Travis CI for Open Source) with read:org, repo:status, repo_deployment, user:email, and write:repo_hook scopes was recently authorized to access your account.
2021-02-28T13:42:53 < qyx> so what, are they keeping the free version of travis?
2021-02-28T13:43:03 < qyx> they renamed it to Travis CI for Open Source
2021-02-28T13:44:31 < qyx> they are still asking users to migrate to .com though
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2021-02-28T16:09:26 < vegii> uh, choosing a microcontroller can be difficult
2021-02-28T16:09:54 < qyx> stm32.
2021-02-28T16:10:29 < vegii> do I take the STM8 that seems to fit my needs but may be challenging if I'll want more features, or the newer stm32 version that's out of stock and 2-3x the price
2021-02-28T16:11:16 < Steffanx> i used stm8 for something simple. It replaced some i2c to 7-segment controller ic. and the end result was cheaper than the original design :)
2021-02-28T16:13:27 < qyx> which one is out of stock?
2021-02-28T16:13:42 < vegii> https://lcsc.com/search?q=stm32l011f4
2021-02-28T16:14:28 < qyx> g03x no good? it is relatively cheap
2021-02-28T16:14:38 < Steffanx> -> lcsc -_-
2021-02-28T16:15:32 < vegii> qyx: STM32L011G3?
2021-02-28T16:15:34 < Steffanx> ive seen stm8 in some china products too, so i guess its rather popular in china as well. Might made it more easy to source it there?
2021-02-28T16:15:45 < qyx> no, stm32g03x
2021-02-28T16:16:01 < vegii> I need uA sleep current and RTC
2021-02-28T16:16:18 < vegii> like sub-uA
2021-02-28T16:16:37 < qyx> sub uA sleep/stop/standby/what?
2021-02-28T16:16:43 < qyx> you cannot achieve sleep with sub-uA
2021-02-28T16:16:49 < vegii> RTC running
2021-02-28T16:17:00 < qyx> hm, rtc only?
2021-02-28T16:17:15 < qyx> with wakeup capability?
2021-02-28T16:17:40 < qyx> you may go as low as 1 uA to few uAs
2021-02-28T16:17:43 < vegii> file:///tmp/mozilla_gp0/stm32l011f4.pdf
2021-02-28T16:17:49 < vegii> ooof
2021-02-28T16:17:51 < qyx> but yeah, L0 can probably go lower
2021-02-28T16:17:52 < vegii> lol
2021-02-28T16:18:10 < vegii> >0.54 μA Stop mode + RTC + 2 KB RAM retention
2021-02-28T16:18:29 < vegii> > Down to 76 μA/MHz in Run mode 
2021-02-28T16:21:09 < vegii> hm, the stm8 needs 1.3uA for halt with RTC
2021-02-28T16:21:24 < qyx> g0 too, standby with rtc
2021-02-28T16:21:44 < qyx> and about 180 uA in 2 MHz lprun mode
2021-02-28T16:22:07 < qyx> but with half the price of L0
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2021-02-28T16:27:29 < vegii> idk
2021-02-28T16:28:06 < vegii> STM8L051F3 vs STM32L011F4
2021-02-28T16:28:31 < vegii> or maybe there's some other STM32L0 that's even better
2021-02-28T16:29:41 < vegii> WOAH
2021-02-28T16:29:53 < vegii> stm32l051 has 8k RAM
2021-02-28T16:30:05 < vegii> and 64k flash
2021-02-28T16:30:09 < vegii> woah
2021-02-28T16:31:30 < vegii> no kill like overkill
2021-02-28T16:46:20 < mawk> underkill
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2021-02-28T17:28:28 < fenugrec> pic10f200
2021-02-28T17:29:05 < Steffanx>  /ban fenugrec 
2021-02-28T17:29:27 < Steffanx> Thats not even a joke fenugrec . damn you
2021-02-28T17:29:31 < fenugrec> hahahaha
2021-02-28T17:29:35 < mawk> I tried to overclock my eink screen
2021-02-28T17:29:40 < mawk> but it made no visible chance to refresh rate
2021-02-28T17:30:02 < fenugrec> but seriously, a sot23-6 mcu can be useful
2021-02-28T17:30:21 < Steffanx> id even would use an attiny10 over that pic :P
2021-02-28T17:30:35 < Steffanx> or was it attiny4
2021-02-28T17:30:36 < Steffanx> idk
2021-02-28T17:30:38 < fenugrec> yea probably better choices
2021-02-28T17:31:20 < fenugrec> only used one f206 once or twice, hidden inside a db9 backshell
2021-02-28T17:31:42 < PaulFertser> de
2021-02-28T17:31:46 < PaulFertser> 9
2021-02-28T17:32:05 < fenugrec> I know. but most places liste DE9 as DB9, following common usage.
2021-02-28T17:33:29 < Steffanx> db9
2021-02-28T17:33:39 < PaulFertser> Fuck you Steffanx 
2021-02-28T17:33:53 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser's response might be scripted after all.
2021-02-28T17:33:53 < PaulFertser> That's just silly.
2021-02-28T17:33:59 < Steffanx> lol
2021-02-28T17:34:08 < Steffanx> i already wrote its not scripted, but .. then you replied :)
2021-02-28T17:34:20 < fenugrec> a PaulFertserBot ?
2021-02-28T17:34:27 < englishman> the 8 in stm8 stands for gr8
2021-02-28T17:34:42 < fenugrec> and msp430 is 10 past 420
2021-02-28T17:35:35 < Steffanx> are you having a good day PaulFertser ? "Fuck you"  is not your usual language
2021-02-28T17:35:43 < PaulFertser> Probably someone here knows an easy introduction to computer networks, something that would explain basic concepts like bridging vs. routing and what "delegated subnet" means? Looking for good intro videos to recommend to OpenWrt newbs who come clueless asking hell knows what.
2021-02-28T17:36:17 < englishman> msp420 is msp430's loser stoner little brother
2021-02-28T17:36:44 < fenugrec> there was the IBM tcp/ip redbook
2021-02-28T17:36:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you just managed to offend me by being stubborn about using wrong terminology.
2021-02-28T17:36:57 < mawk> PaulFertser: refer them to me
2021-02-28T17:37:01 < mawk> I have cheap rates
2021-02-28T17:37:08 < Steffanx> lol PaulFertser. it was a joke :D
2021-02-28T17:37:15 < mawk> Steffanx = de9
2021-02-28T17:37:22 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I have a feeling those people want some youtube video course rather than reading an actual textbook :(
2021-02-28T17:37:27 < Steffanx> no i would be db9, mawk 
2021-02-28T17:37:40 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I know, just wanted to try something different for a change
2021-02-28T17:37:52 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: awesome. Keep up the change.
2021-02-28T17:37:55 < mawk> learning with youtube video
2021-02-28T17:37:58 < mawk> worst idea of the decade
2021-02-28T17:38:09 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: my day is good btw, was improving stm32 firmware that my coworker started writing about 10 years ago.
2021-02-28T17:38:10 < Steffanx> sometimes its useful imho.
2021-02-28T17:38:22 < mawk> for some topic like scientific vulgarization etc
2021-02-28T17:38:27 < mawk> but for in depth learning, I don't think
2021-02-28T17:38:38 < mawk> you don't annotate and write over a youtube video with your pencil
2021-02-28T17:38:44 < mawk> or maybe if you don't care about your screen
2021-02-28T17:38:52 < Steffanx> i still prefer to learn math for a teacher/video instead of a book.
2021-02-28T17:39:07 < PaulFertser> But I do not have the hardware so the testing will be done by someone else and I'll just get the photos or videos if something doesn't work as expected.
2021-02-28T17:39:15 < mawk> nice PaulFertser 
2021-02-28T17:39:20 < fenugrec> in case some newbs are willing to read, here's the redbook https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/gg243376.html
2021-02-28T17:42:27 < englishman> does someone not call db9 connectors that?
2021-02-28T17:42:36 < Steffanx> mr PF.
2021-02-28T17:46:51 < PaulFertser> Yeah, I refuse to say stupid things just because it's so common. Same way I do not say "SMS" when I mean an "SMS message". Same way I do not say "what's up" when I mean WhatsApp (even though just about everyone around here is saying UP for whatever odd reason).
2021-02-28T17:47:51 < Steffanx> i never heard someone say "what's up" when they mean "whatsapp". That one is new.
2021-02-28T17:48:44 < englishman> did you feel this way before the vaccine?
2021-02-28T17:48:54 < mawk> lol
2021-02-28T17:48:55 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: russians are odd
2021-02-28T17:48:57 < Steffanx> I wonder how much common language you use which is incorrect, but no one knows because its so common, PaulFertser  :)
2021-02-28T17:48:59 < jpa-> "SMS" for the messages seems like pretty low amount of stupid
2021-02-28T17:49:22 < PaulFertser> S there stands for System, it can't mean a single message
2021-02-28T17:49:42 < Steffanx> isnt it short message service?
2021-02-28T17:49:50 < jpa-> terms don't necessary have direct connection to their roots
2021-02-28T17:49:57 < jpa-> that's how natural language evolves
2021-02-28T17:50:17 < jpa-> most words don't make sense if you dig their etymology deep enough
2021-02-28T17:50:31 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: service, yes.
2021-02-28T17:50:41 < englishman> you can't dig an etymology.
2021-02-28T17:56:15 < PaulFertser> jpa-: some words are created as a natural language extension, but some others are direct results of ignorance. I'd rather not use the latter.
2021-02-28T17:57:28 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@aftr-62-216-208-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-02-28T17:58:19 < jpa-> PaulFertser: no, SMS is direct result of laziness
2021-02-28T17:58:26 < jpa-> knowledge or lack of it does not matter at all
2021-02-28T17:58:53 < jpa-> IMO it is more stupid to nitpick over such things, like the people who want to make search engines useless by inventing new terms like "LC display"
2021-02-28T17:58:56 < PaulFertser> You do not say telegraph instead of telegram, do you?
2021-02-28T17:59:18 < mawk> let's cut the pear in half and call the connector df9
2021-02-28T17:59:23 < mawk> makes everyone happy
2021-02-28T18:18:50 < aandrew> Sadale: when in doubt, put one (resistor and flyback) on the board, you can always 0R and DNP
2021-02-28T18:19:19 < Sadale> aandrew, I see. Thanks! Will do. :)
2021-02-28T18:26:02 < vegii> oof
2021-02-28T18:26:11 < vegii> I think it's spreadsheet time
2021-02-28T18:26:46 < vegii> wait a second, octopart should tell me the average part price and availability in places, right?
2021-02-28T18:26:57 < vegii> or something like octopart
2021-02-28T18:27:17 < mawk> just buy the first you encounter
2021-02-28T18:27:20 < mawk> you're not a cheap guy
2021-02-28T18:27:30 < vegii> nani
2021-02-28T18:27:44 < englishman> I edited that photo using Adobe® PhotoShop™.
2021-02-28T18:27:49 < vegii> I'll order my chips on aliexpress, that's how cheap I am
2021-02-28T18:27:59 < mawk> ™ © ®
2021-02-28T18:28:16 < mawk> and get counterfeits vegii 
2021-02-28T18:28:37 < vegii> and be happy about it, because it means I can get them even cheaper in volume
2021-02-28T18:28:52 < englishman> can we add this page to the channel rules Steffanx ? https://www.adobe.com/ca/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
2021-02-28T18:28:56 < PaulFertser> Hm, is http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ not cool anymore?
2021-02-28T18:29:45 < vegii> hm, it seems like my pihole is kinda dying
2021-02-28T18:30:20 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: that's a large book, probably similar to Tanenbaum's I guess?
2021-02-28T18:38:20 < mawk> qyx some B&W models of waveshare have ~2s refresh time
2021-02-28T18:38:25 < mawk> and 0.1s partial refresh time
2021-02-28T18:38:35 < mawk> but I like my color
2021-02-28T18:38:59 < qyx> hmm with 0.1 s they may be aactually usable for semi-serious things
2021-02-28T18:39:04 < mawk> yeah
2021-02-28T18:39:23 < qyx> the question is if the total energy consumption is actually lower than a common LCD in that case
2021-02-28T18:39:41 < qyx> because e-ink is zero in standby but much much during refresh
2021-02-28T18:39:53 < qyx> classic LCD with controller can be as low as 200-500 uA
2021-02-28T18:40:14 < mawk> lcd without backlight then?
2021-02-28T18:40:21 < qyx> and theres also the known con with lack of any backlight
2021-02-28T18:40:34 < qyx> yeah LCD without backlight is 200 uA
2021-02-28T18:40:42 < qyx> transflective
2021-02-28T18:40:50 < mawk> yeah the eink does 32V peak to peak for as many mosfets as there are pixels
2021-02-28T18:40:53 < mawk> ah nice
2021-02-28T18:49:46 < Steffanx> Sure englishman add it :)
2021-02-28T18:54:57 < qyx> vegii: why don't you simply buy them on mouser/dk/whatever?
2021-02-28T18:55:27 < vegii> because it's a lot more expensive this way
2021-02-28T18:56:04 < vegii> for a fun project done on a budget, but with some hope of being scalable if the prototype works
2021-02-28T18:56:26 < vegii> tho also not being for-profit
2021-02-28T18:58:26 < vegii> once I make the initial 2pcs I'll make another 10pcs to give away and see how it goes
2021-02-28T18:59:27 < vegii> and then I might make 100pcs and put it on tindie
2021-02-28T19:01:46 < qyx> what will it be?
2021-02-28T19:02:34 < vegii> qyx: this but no radio and an OLED display https://gitlab.com/v3611/pill-e
2021-02-28T19:03:38 < effractur> vegii: why like not eink?
2021-02-28T19:03:42 < vegii> and a photodiode to be able to program it with a blinking screen in a webapp
2021-02-28T19:04:29 < vegii> effractur: OLEDs are actually pretty low power if you don't have them on all the time and you can make the user interface a lot better than with a 7seg LCD
2021-02-28T19:04:41 < effractur> mmk
2021-02-28T19:04:48 < vegii> ane e-paper is hella expensive and not available in this form factor
2021-02-28T19:05:34 < effractur> vegii: you could probaly then go for a fully round oled
2021-02-28T19:05:40 < effractur> they are around for smart watches
2021-02-28T19:05:56 < effractur> also some include touch
2021-02-28T19:05:59 < effractur> if you want that
2021-02-28T19:06:13 < vegii> I wanna power this with a cr2032 battery for 1-2 years per cell
2021-02-28T19:06:31 < vegii> ideally no less than 2 years
2021-02-28T19:06:47 < effractur> mmk
2021-02-28T19:07:09 < vegii> which is totally doable if you don't have it continuously ring for over a minute 4 times a day every day
2021-02-28T19:09:03 < vegii> effractur: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028790938.html
2021-02-28T19:09:12 < vegii> that's the OLED I'm about to use
2021-02-28T19:09:15 < qyx> wait what, oled?
2021-02-28T19:09:24 < qyx> I assume it will be powered off most of the time then
2021-02-28T19:09:57 < vegii> yes
2021-02-28T19:10:30 < vegii> and it's dimmable
2021-02-28T19:10:44 < qyx> I think this is the right application for a fast refreshing small e-ink
2021-02-28T19:10:55 < vegii> find me one
2021-02-28T19:11:04 < qyx> mawk is a pro in e-inks
2021-02-28T19:13:13 < effractur> yea but that will be a lot more expesive i think
2021-02-28T19:13:17 < effractur> https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper-3/1.02inch-e-paper.htm for example
2021-02-28T19:14:44 < vegii> and probably won't be easy to fit onto a 30mm diameter pcb
2021-02-28T19:15:36 < mawk> lol
2021-02-28T19:16:37 < qyx> vegii: I would recommend you tu buy those for example https://www.buydisplay.com/oled-display/oled-display-panel
2021-02-28T19:16:49 < qyx> they have good docs, working examples, good avail
2021-02-28T19:16:50 < mawk> qyx: when you're mega motivated and mega bored one day, and you try to refresh the screen you left with text on it in storage for a year, can you tell me if it's burnt on it?
2021-02-28T19:17:24 < vegii> qyx: lol yea, the 0.42" one 
2021-02-28T19:17:48 < mawk> it's the ones I have I think
2021-02-28T19:17:48 < qyx> whats wrong with it
2021-02-28T19:17:56 < mawk> I wrote a lib for it
2021-02-28T19:18:09 < mawk> it has this weird vertical pixel arrangement
2021-02-28T19:18:10 < vegii> qyx: it is the one I'm about to use, thanks for the docs
2021-02-28T19:18:36 < qyx> oh it is the same
2021-02-28T19:18:42 < qyx> heh
2021-02-28T19:19:52 < Steffanx> Hm
2021-02-28T19:21:03 < vegii> qyx: quick look, example arduino sketch running on it, white on black: 2.2mA on 5V (3.3V LDO onboard) https://i.imgur.com/h3a1ajT.jpg
2021-02-28T19:24:16  * karlp had never heard of de9, only db9
2021-02-28T19:24:32 < vegii> inverted colors, went up to 6.6mA https://i.imgur.com/7XUL3RZ.jpg
2021-02-28T19:25:08 < vegii> which is while it was refreshing
2021-02-28T19:25:33 < vegii> or should I say, updating (the library example is an animation)
2021-02-28T19:25:34 < karlp> db9 connector: 6million results
2021-02-28T19:25:42 < karlp> de9 connector: 227k results
2021-02-28T19:26:14 < vegii> it gets worse, tey rj45 and 8p8c
2021-02-28T19:26:18 < vegii> *try
2021-02-28T19:26:26 < karlp> so sure, dsub connector shell size e, fine, but fuck anyone talking like that.
2021-02-28T19:31:19 < vegii> also, I've measured if the oled display wasn't backfeeding from the 5V IO's on the arduino, but the current actually slightly dropped acter unplugging the i2c data lanes (it retained the image and stopped updating)
2021-02-28T19:32:27 < vegii> and that's full brightness
2021-02-28T19:32:59 < vegii> safe to assume below 5mA typical
2021-02-28T19:33:04 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, dunno, haven't read Tannenbaum, probably similar I guess
2021-02-28T19:33:06 < vegii> the buzzer will consume more than that
2021-02-28T19:33:18 < vegii> ...possibly
2021-02-28T19:34:23 < vegii> I'm thinking of powering the display from a GPIO pin, so I can fully power it down along with the i2c pullups in low power state
2021-02-28T19:35:54 < vegii> not sure if the pin wouldn't be unhappy about a decoupling capacitor though. Might use 2 pins and add a series resistor to the first one for a sort of soft start
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2021-02-28T19:57:18 < fenugrec> Ah , finally found something. with my stlink and a working F042 board, SWD swings sharply between 0 and 3V. On the weird F042 board, SWD only goes up to 1.1V ... 
2021-02-28T19:58:01 < fenugrec> how and why that's happening is another question
2021-02-28T19:58:24 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: now that explains things. Is that on both clock and data?
2021-02-28T19:58:42 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, SWC is clean, 0/3V
2021-02-28T19:59:12 < fenugrec> I'm about to hook up a series resistor on SWD to see if the stlink is weak or the target is busted
2021-02-28T19:59:50 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I'd bet on the latter. Probably just something is shorted to that line.
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2021-02-28T20:04:29 < fenugrec> yep, 1k res to GND and stlink still swings fine. 
2021-02-28T20:08:34 < fenugrec> looks like the F042 itself is busted...how on earth
2021-02-28T20:19:42 < qyx> probably esd diodes
2021-02-28T20:19:51 < qyx> you may have VDD shorted do GND
2021-02-28T20:20:17 < qyx> is it populated correctly? direction-wise
2021-02-28T20:24:33 < fenugrec> qyx, yeah, investigating now, but I was reflashing and debugging the same board a few weeks ago
2021-02-28T20:25:11 < fenugrec> vdd is fine @ 3V, mcu was operating on an old version of the firmware (SPI activity etc) so it looks like just SWD died
2021-02-28T20:25:24 < fenugrec> or there's some crap stuck under the QFP... will find out soon
2021-02-28T20:25:59 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | pastebin https://waifupaste.moe/ | x | https://www.adobe.com/ca/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
2021-02-28T20:26:08 < Steffanx> yw englishman 
2021-02-28T20:27:54 < fenugrec> aah man it better be some bodged solderjob... I have no f042K6T7 spares 
2021-02-28T20:44:44 < qyx> oh conda!
2021-02-28T20:45:09 < qyx> there were a human being shitting on it lately
2021-02-28T20:45:18 < qyx> who could have it been
2021-02-28T20:45:30 < Steffanx> mr karl.
2021-02-28T20:45:46  * qyx apt installing conda
2021-02-28T20:46:12 < Steffanx> are you sure?
2021-02-28T20:46:17 < qyx> not yet
2021-02-28T20:47:14 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@ip98-177-87-213.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-02-28T20:48:43 < qyx> wait wtf
2021-02-28T20:48:56 < qyx> am I supposed to get the whole anaconda shit just to be able to use conda venvs?
2021-02-28T20:49:48 < qyx> ok theres the miniconda anaconda
2021-02-28T20:50:09 < effractur> qyx: don't use it :P
2021-02-28T20:50:11 < effractur> if you don't have to
2021-02-28T20:50:26 < qyx> Successfully installed conda-4.3.16 pycosat-0.6.3 ruamel.yaml-0.16.12
2021-02-28T20:51:14 < qyx> ERROR: The install method you used for conda--probably either `pip install conda`
2021-02-28T20:51:17 < qyx> or `easy_install conda`--is not compatible with using conda as an application.
2021-02-28T20:51:19 < qyx> ok, fuck
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2021-02-28T20:52:41  * qyx pip uninstalls conda
2021-02-28T20:53:59 < Steffanx> Will see which one is the stronger snake
2021-02-28T21:13:56 -!- jadew [~rcc@unaffiliated/jadew] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2021-02-28T21:27:29 < fenugrec> prefer this snake, myself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9a-JxVsPak
2021-02-28T21:27:38 -!- jadew [~rcc@2a02:2f0a:b418:5600:ca2a:14ff:fe58:c8c0] has joined ##stm32
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2021-02-28T21:33:12 < Steffanx> awful fenugrec.
2021-02-28T21:34:58 < fenugrec> yw
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2021-02-28T21:49:33 < t4nk_freenode> that's a superduper SUPer song!!!
2021-02-28T21:49:42 < t4nk_freenode> for me to download...
2021-02-28T21:50:16 < t4nk_freenode> and keep handy for when I absolutely can't sleep at night
2021-02-28T21:50:33 < t4nk_freenode> put it on -> instant boredom to death ;)
2021-02-28T21:51:36 < t4nk_freenode> Feel like rookworst tonight, Steffanx? I do!
2021-02-28T21:52:19 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@152.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-28T21:58:19 < fenugrec> phillistines
2021-02-28T21:59:02 -!- elektrinis [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has joined ##stm32
2021-02-28T21:59:33 < t4nk_freenode> I'm gonna look up that word, youknow... and then I'll come with an appropriate response.
2021-02-28T22:00:07 < t4nk_freenode> ah, you meant filistines :))
2021-02-28T22:01:25 < t4nk_freenode> euh... philistines I mean ;)
2021-02-28T22:03:07 -!- circuit [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-02-28T22:20:33 < t4nk_freenode> mmm would be kinda nice to go back in time and see how it was like in that time
2021-02-28T22:40:11 < qyx> zyp: scons: if I wanted to add dependency of a non-existent file, is it even possible? (I want to git submodule update the repo first using Command())
2021-02-28T22:40:50 < zyp> of course
2021-02-28T22:41:18 < qyx> I have something like Command(source=None, target=File(Glob("libopencm3/*.a")), action ...)
2021-02-28T22:41:20 < vegii> help, I can't find info on stm32L0  EEPROM
2021-02-28T22:41:33 < zyp> if you've got a rule that makes B from A and another that makes C from B, then C depends on a initially non-existent file
2021-02-28T22:42:19 < zyp> I'm not sure Glob() is gonna work though
2021-02-28T22:43:51 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/lh9p7
2021-02-28T22:44:00 < qyx> glob arguments are wrong of course
2021-02-28T22:44:29 < qyx> it is all wrong, but see the general idea
2021-02-28T22:44:33 < zyp> I'm not sure the first one makes sense
2021-02-28T22:44:58 < qyx> ie. if a *.a in a libopencm3 directory is requeste, it is known it can be made by issuing make
2021-02-28T22:45:08 < qyx> but you need sources for it
2021-02-28T22:45:23 < qyx> so you do submodule update to get them out of None
2021-02-28T22:45:52 < qyx> hm, probably with empty target?
2021-02-28T22:46:30 < zyp> I guess it depends on how good you want the dependency tree to be
2021-02-28T22:47:10 < qyx> very rough
2021-02-28T22:47:39 < zyp> you could also run the git submodule update directly instead of adding it as a rule
2021-02-28T22:47:52 < qyx> I don't want to update all submodules
2021-02-28T22:47:54 < zyp> that way you could use an if statement to check if you have to
2021-02-28T22:48:25 < qyx> ok actually I could
2021-02-28T22:48:37 < qyx> because I have a Kconfig there and I know if libopencm3 is selected for build
2021-02-28T22:48:42 < qyx> so I can simply do if
2021-02-28T22:48:56 -!- elektrinis [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-02-28T22:49:03 < qyx> but if I wanted to to id according to dep tree, I cannot
2021-02-28T22:49:41 < zyp> scons by default adds libs as linker dependencies automatically, so even without libopencm3 specific rules you'll get rebuild of anything using libopencm3 when libopencm3 is rebuilt
2021-02-28T22:49:56 < zyp> even when those libs are not made by scons
2021-02-28T22:51:30 < zyp> same obviously goes for headers
2021-02-28T22:53:50 < qyx> while it may do what is expected, the actual problem here is that it probably deosn't know it has to do git submodule update to get headers
2021-02-28T22:54:03 < qyx> I cannot see any dependencies in the tree altogether
2021-02-28T22:54:38 < qyx> regarding libopencm3
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 01 00:00:03 2021