--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:03 2021
2021-03-01T00:06:09 < Laurenceb> potential perman00b question: why to audio transformers have impedance in ohms?
2021-03-01T00:06:20 < Laurenceb> as part of spec
2021-03-01T00:07:49 < zyp> AFAIK because they'll output up to a given voltage and is rated for a given current, and the rated impedance is the minimum for the current not to exceed the rating at max voltage
2021-03-01T00:08:50 < Laurenceb> oh
2021-03-01T00:08:58 < Laurenceb> ok that makes sense now, thanks
2021-03-01T00:15:19 < Laurenceb> is ngspice any good?
2021-03-01T00:15:21 < zyp> and obviously the right impedance to reach the rated power
2021-03-01T00:16:03 < zyp> hmm
2021-03-01T00:16:50 < zyp> jlcpcb says assembly finished a few hours ago, and somehow production progress is still at 86% even though there's no more steps
2021-03-01T00:17:09 < karlp> hrm, sod-923 is little
2021-03-01T00:17:11 < zyp> wonder how long shipping is gonna take
2021-03-01T00:17:48 < karlp> 5v tvs that will actualyl protect 5v shit seems ... odd.
2021-03-01T00:18:04 < karlp> half ot it' slike "sure, we'll break down at 6.5 or so V, hope that 's ok..."
2021-03-01T00:18:31 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-01T00:19:30 < qyx> combine TVS with a overvoltage circuit?
2021-03-01T00:20:45 < karlp> or just, put the tvs, say, "We tried"
2021-03-01T00:20:52 < karlp> not sure how much effort should be spent on this...
2021-03-01T00:21:04 < zyp> the problem in any case is that the threshold isn't super hard, and for a nominal 5V you need to have the threshold start a reasonable margin above that
2021-03-01T00:22:06 < karlp> yeah, it's pretty gross.
2021-03-01T00:22:19 < karlp> there's some realyl tight threshold stuff in sod923 and some super tiny dfn shits.
2021-03-01T00:22:30 < karlp> but not sure I could be bothered putting that on
2021-03-01T00:22:47 < zyp> I once did this thing with a RT7257B for something with a nominal input voltage of 12V
2021-03-01T00:22:54 < zyp> reg does up to 18V, absolute max 20V
2021-03-01T00:23:03 < zyp> so I slapped on a polyfuse and a TVS
2021-03-01T00:23:20 < zyp> I still wonder if that'd actually work as intended
2021-03-01T00:23:34 < zyp> but I never had any complaints, so…
2021-03-01T00:23:35 < karlp> 12v nominal standoff? 
2021-03-01T00:23:44 < zyp> no, 12V nominal input
2021-03-01T00:23:57 < karlp> right, but the tvs, did you pick a 12v standoff part there?
2021-03-01T00:24:11 < zyp> hang on, let me see if I can find the BOM
2021-03-01T00:24:45 < qyx> yeah, I would
2021-03-01T00:24:52 < karlp> hrm, looking at the sheets here, I'd probablyu pick a smf14 or something, breakdown min15.5, max 17.2
2021-03-01T00:25:03 < qyx> which would give about 16V or so breakdown voltage
2021-03-01T00:25:12 < karlp> I've put a 24v standoff tvs here for a "7-24V input"
2021-03-01T00:25:24 < karlp> wondering whether a reverse polarity protection diode is useful as well.
2021-03-01T00:25:37 < karlp> would need to handle 30W supply though.
2021-03-01T00:26:48 < karlp> smc pacakge says it can do 10A though at vf 1.2, so that's no problem?
2021-03-01T00:26:52 < qyx> I have a.. wait
2021-03-01T00:26:59 < zyp> wait, wat
2021-03-01T00:27:06 < karlp> think I want a schottyky instead
2021-03-01T00:27:08 < karlp> fuck vf 1.2
2021-03-01T00:27:24 < zyp> looks like I've got a 1SMB5930BT3G, which appears to be a zener, not TVS
2021-03-01T00:28:29 < qyx> karlp: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EziSg/Screenshot_2021-02-28_23-28-14.png
2021-03-01T00:28:32 < zyp> the fuck is this
2021-03-01T00:28:39 < qyx> a circuit
2021-03-01T00:28:58 < qyx> left is unprotected
2021-03-01T00:29:28 < karlp> smcj_43_?
2021-03-01T00:29:39 < qyx> thats for 24 V
2021-03-01T00:30:07 < qyx> the first part crops transients at few hundred volts (varistor + series fuse)
2021-03-01T00:30:10 < karlp> oh, yuou have _another_ smbj24 later...
2021-03-01T00:30:17 < karlp> yeah, fuck that sort of shit.
2021-03-01T00:30:21 < karlp> this is for my hubbish rev2
2021-03-01T00:30:32 < qyx> yeah don't use everything
2021-03-01T00:30:35 < qyx> just a TVS
2021-03-01T00:30:42 < qyx> + overvoltage and reverse polarity protection
2021-03-01T00:30:52 < qyx> you can fine tune overvoltage after the TVS
2021-03-01T00:31:24 < qyx> this way you can add TVS for 24 V, mosfets for lets say 60 V
2021-03-01T00:31:30 < qyx> and OVP at 5V5
2021-03-01T00:31:45 < qyx> you are basically protected to +- 24 V
2021-03-01T00:31:47 < zyp> wtf, this zener shit is not gonna work
2021-03-01T00:31:53 < qyx> why, it works
2021-03-01T00:31:57 < qyx> I didn't invent it
2021-03-01T00:31:59 < karlp> I ws thinking of just doing this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8W3Hk.png
2021-03-01T00:32:06 < karlp> I think he's thinking of his own qyx :)
2021-03-01T00:32:06 < zyp> qyx, no, my shit
2021-03-01T00:32:13 < karlp> what's a tvs other than a zener in a suit?
2021-03-01T00:32:18 < qyx> lol
2021-03-01T00:32:23 < mawk> and a bow tie
2021-03-01T00:32:44 < zyp> karlp, foldback clamping, or whatever it's called
2021-03-01T00:32:54 < karlp> polarity shottkey just drop something fat there and let it get hot....
2021-03-01T00:32:57 < mawk> rate my network config /20 PaulFertser : https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210228233246924.png
2021-03-01T00:33:03 < mawk> it's the most convoluted thing I had to do
2021-03-01T00:33:12 < zyp> i.e. the voltage drop across the TVS goes down as the current goes up
2021-03-01T00:33:26 < karlp> I'm not putting a fet there and it's shit to get lower drop, even if it seems nice
2021-03-01T00:33:30 < zyp> which reduces dissipated power, which means they can clamp better
2021-03-01T00:33:30 < mawk> there's a 2001:bc8:3cd7:210::/64 route on br0, but 2001:bc8:3cd7:201::1 is on wg0, so I had to do NDP proxy to make the address appear on-link on br0
2021-03-01T00:33:34 < mawk> amongst many other delicacies
2021-03-01T00:35:13 < zyp> as far as I can see this zener shit is rated for 3W and a zener voltage of 16V, and I have this behind a 500mA fuse, which means I'm probably burning the zener before blowing the fuse
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2021-03-01T00:36:00 < zyp> I must have been drunk when I designed this
2021-03-01T00:36:13 < karlp> heh.
2021-03-01T00:36:31 < zyp> I mean, I weren't, but wtf
2021-03-01T00:36:37 < qyx> it happens to me too
2021-03-01T00:36:37 < karlp> we found after a few years of one erly gen of some of our stuff that we'd copied a tvs at some point and never checked it
2021-03-01T00:36:45 < karlp> was _permaneently_ conducting.
2021-03-01T00:36:54 < zyp> I know I've looked at tvs specs before though
2021-03-01T00:37:04 < qyx> yeah thats the reason for the 1 A fuse in my circuit
2021-03-01T00:37:06 < zyp> ah
2021-03-01T00:37:08 < karlp> this was quite a few years ago now  though :)
2021-03-01T00:37:27 < qyx> because varistors degrade over time and start conducting
2021-03-01T00:37:37 < zyp> right, opened another project now, this thing got a SMBJ12A and a SMBJ12CA
2021-03-01T00:37:53 < karlp> bidir and unidir or something?
2021-03-01T00:37:56 < zyp> yes
2021-03-01T00:38:28 < zyp> let's see, standoff at 12V, breakdown at 13.3..14.7
2021-03-01T00:38:40 < zyp> maximum clamping at 19.9V
2021-03-01T00:39:04 < zyp> this thing is what should have been in that other design
2021-03-01T00:40:01 < zyp> and they are both SMB footprint, so it'd just be a direct swap :)
2021-03-01T00:40:06 < qyx> where do you use bidir
2021-03-01T00:40:10 < qyx> except ungrounded IT
2021-03-01T00:40:16 < qyx> and data lines
2021-03-01T00:41:24 < zyp> pilot signal in my EVSE thing
2021-03-01T00:41:32 < zyp> it's a ±12V PWM signal
2021-03-01T00:41:42 < karlp> man, best Vf schottkeys at around 7-15A are through hole...
2021-03-01T00:43:10 < zyp> karlp, FWIW a SMBJ5.0A with a 5V standoff has a maximum clamping voltage of 9.2V
2021-03-01T00:43:27 < zyp> breakdown between 6.4..7.0V
2021-03-01T00:43:27 < qyx> karlp: no PMEGxxxx?
2021-03-01T00:43:50 < qyx> idk if 7 A though, there are 5 A
2021-03-01T00:44:00 < karlp> zyp: oh, definitely not looking at smbj5, yeah, they're garbge.
2021-03-01T00:44:32 < zyp> are they?
2021-03-01T00:45:04 < karlp> well, for 5v at least :)
2021-03-01T00:45:17 < karlp> if you want a tight knee.
2021-03-01T00:45:23 < karlp> like I fucking know,.
2021-03-01T00:45:27 < karlp> I can jsut read numbers of a sheet
2021-03-01T00:45:37 < zyp> I suspect this might be a voltage vs power tradeoff
2021-03-01T00:45:39 < karlp> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/toshiba-semiconductor-and-storage/DF2S6-2FS-L3M/4304912 is way sharper 
2021-03-01T00:47:02 < karlp> heh, 5W at 25C/W, no thanks...
2021-03-01T00:47:16 < karlp> maybe, "remove reverse polarity protection for great glory!"
2021-03-01T00:48:11 < karlp> startiong to look like a fet fo polarity protection isn't such a bad idea after all .... :)
2021-03-01T00:48:16 < zyp> I don't see a power/current limit on the toshiba
2021-03-01T00:49:02 < karlp> yeayh, it's a shitty sheet, one of the other packages had a more full detail
2021-03-01T00:49:13 < karlp> and it's a stupid smally part, so it's definitely not going to do muhc power
2021-03-01T00:49:33 < karlp> will probably say, "here's 5V output, don't try anything dumb"
2021-03-01T00:49:44 < zyp> I figure smaller power devices are probably gonna be sharper
2021-03-01T00:50:19 < zyp> the more power you want it to withstand, the more marging you need to give it to play with
2021-03-01T00:50:53 < karlp> 5W at 5C/W seems much better, in this: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/smc-diode-solutions/MBRD1045TR/6022561
2021-03-01T00:51:07 < karlp> just gotta get the heat ouf of the pcb then right.... ;)
2021-03-01T00:52:36 < karlp> heh, to220 and everything :)
2021-03-01T00:55:37 < karlp> wat, no to-252 footprint in kicad?!
2021-03-01T01:01:15 < fenugrec> karlp, ... package_to_sot_smd => TO252*
2021-03-01T01:01:43 < karlp> yeahm, IU found it eventually
2021-03-01T01:01:46 < karlp> thanks
2021-03-01T01:02:58 < R2COM> > https://bin.jvnv.net/file/EziSg/Screenshot_2021-02-28_23-28-14.png
2021-03-01T01:03:00 < R2COM> ^
2021-03-01T01:03:17 < R2COM> instead of that retarded (and possibly wrong) circuit, one goes and buys IC called electronic fuse
2021-03-01T01:03:25 < R2COM> with all protection stuff integrated
2021-03-01T01:05:42 < R2COM> https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tps25944a
2021-03-01T01:05:45 < R2COM> similar to that
2021-03-01T01:06:35 < R2COM> typically if overvoltage protection overheats the FETs inside, the thermal protection kicks in which will turn off channel in a safe way
2021-03-01T01:08:18 < R2COM> (during overvoltage inner loop keeps FETs in non-linear mode in order to keep VOUT fixed at target setting)
2021-03-01T01:09:33 < karlp> back to it again then I guess: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tMZqx.png
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2021-03-01T01:11:11 < qyx> instead of retarded answer you should thing a bit about the voltages involved first
2021-03-01T01:11:18 < qyx> *think
2021-03-01T01:11:40 < qyx> I am using such fuses where appropriate
2021-03-01T01:12:31 < R2COM> lol
2021-03-01T01:12:32 < R2COM> https://www.ti.com/power-management/power-switches/efuse-hotswap-controllers/products.html#p849=40;110
2021-03-01T01:12:37 < R2COM> most voltages covered here
2021-03-01T01:12:52 < qyx> I know TI's catalogue
2021-03-01T01:13:03 < R2COM> yeah so what about the voltage?
2021-03-01T01:13:28 < qyx> theres a series fused RV for a reason
2021-03-01T01:14:22 < qyx> and dual level clamp with a filter between
2021-03-01T01:14:59 < qyx> it is a solar input of a pole mount charger
2021-03-01T01:19:51 < R2COM> sure, its ok to keep that, and the integrated protection for the rest
2021-03-01T01:20:12 < R2COM> instead of that afro reverse polarity and overvoltage crafted on that schematic
2021-03-01T01:21:55 < qyx> I'll do that next, thanks
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2021-03-01T03:43:36 < vegii> is the stm32L010 like super-new or something?
2021-03-01T03:48:20 < vegii> hm... datasheet initial release in 2017
2021-03-01T03:50:30 < vegii> pretty crappy availability on octopart
2021-03-01T03:55:16 < vegii> ladies, I'm happy to announce the winner of today's shootout, STM32L011F4P6
2021-03-01T04:12:02 < t4nk_freenode> good on you, Doll
2021-03-01T04:15:46 < t4nk_freenode> what will they be used for? to level the grind on the drive way? ;))
2021-03-01T04:17:36 < t4nk_freenode> lol.. 2$ !?!?
2021-03-01T04:17:51 < t4nk_freenode> why on earth would you want that, mate
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2021-03-01T10:52:55 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9_bI789Gog
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2021-03-01T13:52:14 < vegii> does STM32L011F4P6 have v1 or v2 peripherals?
2021-03-01T13:52:59 < jpa-> should be pretty new
2021-03-01T13:53:08 < jpa-> at least it will have GPIOv2 etc.
2021-03-01T13:54:20 < vegii> so any pin can be whatever interface I want?
2021-03-01T13:54:25 < jpa-> no
2021-03-01T13:54:35 < jpa-> only according to the alternate function diagram in datasheet
2021-03-01T13:54:44 < jpa-> but they have much more flexibility than GPIOv1
2021-03-01T13:55:50 < qyx> L0 is newer than L4 and L4 has "the new" peripherals
2021-03-01T13:56:12 < qyx> new SPI, ADC with oversampling, new GPIO, etc.
2021-03-01T13:56:37 < qyx> so I think it is mostly new
2021-03-01T13:59:08 < jpa-> yeah, STM32 family release order is:   F1, L1, F2, F4, F0, F3, L0, F7, H7, L4, L5
2021-03-01T13:59:30 < vegii> nice
2021-03-01T13:59:45 < vegii> sadly I can't find things in these datasheets
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2021-03-01T14:00:02 < zyp> jpa-, F3 came before F0, no?
2021-03-01T14:00:29 < zyp> at least F3 got usb v1, F0 got usb v2
2021-03-01T14:00:38 < zyp> (except F3 E which also got usb v2)
2021-03-01T14:01:18 < jpa-> looks like they are both 2012, but maybe F3 was designed earlier
2021-03-01T14:01:29 < jpa-> or maybe the F0 series began without USB
2021-03-01T14:02:33 < vegii> where can I find an eeprom programming guide for STM32L011F4P6?
2021-03-01T14:02:47 < zyp> true, F042 came a bit after F030
2021-03-01T14:02:47 < vegii> the datasheet doesn't even tell the page size
2021-03-01T14:03:14 < zyp> vegii, should be in the flash chapter in the RM
2021-03-01T14:03:16 < vegii> the stm8 datasheet at least referred to a separate appnote
2021-03-01T14:03:41 < vegii> zyp: RM?
2021-03-01T14:03:47 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/dm00108282-ultralowpower-stm32l0x1-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-03-01T14:04:05 < zyp> chapter 3
2021-03-01T14:05:35 < vegii> > The memory array is divided into pages. A page is composed of 32 words (or 128 bytes) in Flash program memory and System memory, and 1 single word (or 4 bytes) in data EEPROM and Option bytes areas (user and factory). 
2021-03-01T14:05:37 < vegii> thanks
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2021-03-01T14:06:25 < karlp> jpa-: now you need to put wb, wl, u5, l4+, g0 and g4 in that list too ;)
2021-03-01T14:06:36 < vegii> interesting, so I can erase and write to eeprom just 4 bytes at a time? neat
2021-03-01T14:06:53 < zyp> that's the point of eeprom
2021-03-01T14:06:56 < karlp> I thought you could do byte access actually
2021-03-01T14:07:11 < vegii> write...
2021-03-01T14:07:26 < karlp> yes, for reading and writing.
2021-03-01T14:07:39 < vegii> idk, maybe overwriting is not the same as clearing
2021-03-01T14:08:11 < zyp> karlp, I figure they didn't want to deal with byte enables and shit :)
2021-03-01T14:08:19 < vegii> anyway, on stm8 the eeprom was 256B and a page was 128 bytes
2021-03-01T14:08:35 < vegii> so that is a huge improvement
2021-03-01T14:08:35 < zyp> that's flash, not eeprom
2021-03-01T14:08:42 < vegii> nope, eeprom
2021-03-01T14:08:59 < karlp> ah, eeprom can be erased in 32bits chunks, but written in bytes.
2021-03-01T14:09:01 < zyp> I mean, the whole difference between flash and eeprom is erase granularity
2021-03-01T14:09:03 < karlp> (on l1 at least,)
2021-03-01T14:09:34 < zyp> karlp, if you wanna be pedantic it can be written in bits :)
2021-03-01T14:09:40 < Laurenceb> wait there is stm32 with eeprom?
2021-03-01T14:09:45 < karlp> lol
2021-03-01T14:09:46 < zyp> Laurenceb, L series
2021-03-01T14:09:50 < karlp> how long have you been here loser?!
2021-03-01T14:09:54 < Laurenceb> oh yeah I remeber lol
2021-03-01T14:10:20 < Laurenceb> kind of pointless as most things can use bbram tbh
2021-03-01T14:10:22 < jpa-> stm32h7 only allows flash write 256 bits at a time, if you want to keep error correction code enabled
2021-03-01T14:10:27 < zyp> it's also worth noting that the L series flash/eeprom is erase to 0, write to 1
2021-03-01T14:10:40 < zyp> unlike pretty much every other NOR flash
2021-03-01T14:10:47 < jpa-> kind of annoying that it stops spiffs from working and littlefs cannot cope with 128kB erase block size
2021-03-01T14:11:08 < jpa-> also worth noting that writing eeprom pauses execution, at least on L1
2021-03-01T14:11:15 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-03-01T14:11:28 < karlp> lolrence, only ifyou want to, you know, put a fucking _battery_ on your board?!
2021-03-01T14:11:49 < Laurenceb> karlp: most real products have.... a battery
2021-03-01T14:11:54  * karlp lols
2021-03-01T14:12:04 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, ECC puts additional limits on things since it's calculated over a line
2021-03-01T14:12:28 < karlp> I think there's maybe one product here on the desk with a battery in it?
2021-03-01T14:12:28 < zyp> the TI RM4x stuff I worked with has some fun stuff there
2021-03-01T14:12:35 < Laurenceb> I used bb ram on crapillary to save control loop coefficients and gui setting iirc
2021-03-01T14:12:50 < karlp> that's because you were too dumb to notice you could hve just used an L series...
2021-03-01T14:13:00 < qyx> wait waht
2021-03-01T14:13:04 < qyx> L4 has eeprom?
2021-03-01T14:13:17 < qyx> how long have I been here
2021-03-01T14:13:22 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-01T14:13:35  * qyx furiously searches
2021-03-01T14:14:13 < qyx> lies, pure lies
2021-03-01T14:14:16 < qyx> datasheet lists no eeprom
2021-03-01T14:14:30 < karlp> l0/l1 only true L series ....
2021-03-01T14:14:39 < zyp> jpa-, IIRC the TI RM4x has a jtag key stored in ECC-protected OTP -- the default key is selected to be one that is almost all ones, both in the key itself and the ECC
2021-03-01T14:14:53 < englishman> fram ftw
2021-03-01T14:15:07 < zyp> when selecting a new one, you need to double check that it doesn't have any ones where the default key has a zero, including the ECC
2021-03-01T14:15:17 < karlp> englishman: when do patents on that expire?
2021-03-01T14:15:25 < zyp> I think they provide a generator for valid keys :)
2021-03-01T14:15:34 < karlp> or is is still "cypress external soics" or "msp430F"
2021-03-01T14:15:42 < jpa-> zyp: lol
2021-03-01T14:15:46 < englishman> as soon as it's obsoleted by memristors?
2021-03-01T14:18:30 < zyp> ah, default key is 0xeffdffff 0xffffffff 0xfffdfffe 0xffefffff, ecc: 0xffff
2021-03-01T14:18:40 < zyp> ref. https://www.ti.com/lit/an/spna232a/spna232a.pdf
2021-03-01T14:19:06 < jpa-> well that makes it quite simple, just generate a key, AND with that, calculate ecc
2021-03-01T14:19:06 < zyp> except on little endian devices the ecc is 0xedc0
2021-03-01T14:19:15 < jpa-> lol wut
2021-03-01T14:19:20 < zyp> :D
2021-03-01T14:19:54 < zyp> TI hercules comes in both big endian (TMS570) and little endian (RM4x)
2021-03-01T14:20:07 < zyp> and the latter is probably an afterthought
2021-03-01T14:23:25 < vegii> do I want a reset pin for an i2c oled?
2021-03-01T14:23:49 < vegii> I can power cycle it, that's probably enough
2021-03-01T14:26:09 < zyp> does it have a well defined power on reset state?
2021-03-01T14:27:11 < vegii> it works...
2021-03-01T14:28:30 < zyp> then you're good :)
2021-03-01T14:28:47 < vegii> I guess lol
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2021-03-01T17:33:08 < fenugrec> This is awesome : I have a breakpoint on _malloc_r in cubeide, and if I try to singlestep by opcode, I get 3 extra stack frames : _malloc_r(), malloc(), and <function called from gdb> (Reset_Handler)
2021-03-01T17:33:38 < fenugrec> So, recursive malloc till the stack clobbers everything 
2021-03-01T17:35:45 < mawk> you have to do special magic to be able to use malloc
2021-03-01T17:35:55 < mawk> look around in newlib docs
2021-03-01T17:38:28 < jpa-> btw, has anyone tried https://github.com/embeddedartistry/libc/ ? looks pretty good replacement for newlib, has proper printf that doesn't take a ton of memory etc.
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2021-03-01T17:38:30 < fenugrec> mawk, what do you mean by "use malloc" - I'm not trying to troubleshoot the newlib implementation, just find out where it's called from
2021-03-01T17:39:37 < mawk> you want to remove the malloc usage?
2021-03-01T17:40:22 < fenugrec> eventually, but for now (until I use something like jpa- posted) I'm troubleshooting some corruption issue, just with the stock printf+malloc garbage
2021-03-01T17:40:48 < fenugrec> I did see a mention of malloc hooks etc but I'm not at that point yet
2021-03-01T17:41:30 < mawk> I mean if you don't fill up these hooks stuff, the default naive implem of malloc breaks in multi-task environement
2021-03-01T17:42:13 < fenugrec> hmm, if you mean that malloc is not reentrant, yes I'm aware of that - my code only does printf in the main thread. Interrupts only push stuff through fifos
2021-03-01T17:42:22 < mawk> I see
2021-03-01T17:42:39 < fenugrec> if there's other black magic going on that I'm not aware of between cubeide and gdb ?
2021-03-01T17:42:58 < mawk> normally no
2021-03-01T17:43:06 < mawk> it should be as if you used gdb manually
2021-03-01T17:43:18 < fenugrec> right, right
2021-03-01T17:45:58 < jpa-> fenugrec: it could be that your newlib doesn't have much debug symbols and gdb fails to unroll the stack
2021-03-01T17:46:02 < fenugrec> yea there's something weirder going on. Is there an IDE equivalent to set a memory watchpoint ? (i.e. break on write)
2021-03-01T17:46:10 < jpa-> it can happen depending on optimization settings (frame pointer omission)
2021-03-01T17:46:52 < fenugrec> jpa-, that would kinda make sense, but stepping by opcode should... "just work", no ? Should be equivalent to gdb "si" or "ni" I assume
2021-03-01T17:49:00 < jpa-> sure - in what way does it not work?
2021-03-01T17:49:50 < qyx> what special magic mawk 
2021-03-01T17:50:00 < qyx> I can use malloc whenever I want with libopencm3
2021-03-01T17:50:07 < qyx> zero lines of special magic required
2021-03-01T17:50:15 < fenugrec> that's what doesn't make sense - I'm on a "cmp r5, 12" opcode at the entry of _malloc_r . Trying to single step once (step Into), I end up on the same opcode (!), with sp decremented by 0x20 with those 3 extra frames
2021-03-01T17:51:11 < Laurenceb> you cant travel into space with only fractions
2021-03-01T17:51:16 < mawk> if you use it concurrently in several tasks qyx 
2021-03-01T17:51:22 < Laurenceb> what? ur gunna land on 1/4 ?
2021-03-01T17:51:36 < Laurenceb> whats ur spaceship? 1/8?
2021-03-01T17:51:47 < Laurenceb> planet 3/5
2021-03-01T17:52:28 < qyx> mawk: you shall never
2021-03-01T17:52:34 < mawk> lol
2021-03-01T17:52:36 < qyx> single task during init only
2021-03-01T17:52:47 < Laurenceb> apocalypse now predicted nasaspaceflight and qanon
2021-03-01T17:52:52 < mawk> what if you want to prinf("%f");
2021-03-01T17:53:02 < qyx> you shall never
2021-03-01T17:53:04 < Laurenceb> printf is yuggeee
2021-03-01T17:53:10  * Laurenceb uses rfprintf
2021-03-01T17:56:16 < fenugrec> hahaha ok this is insane. I'm in a different part of the code after resetting, didn't hit my bug yet, and now I mouseover something in the IDE and all of a sudden I'm in _malloc_r, 15 frames deep  !!?
2021-03-01T17:57:11 < karlp> hrm, are you sure you've got sufficient debug symbols, and are actually debugging the code thatis flashed?
2021-03-01T17:58:34 < jpa-> mallocing printf() is crazy
2021-03-01T17:59:49 < mawk> it has to, to handle %f, jpa- 
2021-03-01T18:00:00 < jpa-> mawk: only because newlib is idiotic
2021-03-01T18:00:10 < jpa-> or do you really need to format 1000000 bytes long floats?
2021-03-01T18:00:23 < mawk> lol
2021-03-01T18:00:24 < jpa-> they could just reserve 64 bytes or 128 bytes and cover 99.9% of usecases
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2021-03-01T18:05:33 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk
2021-03-01T18:05:45 < Laurenceb> >hyperloop got welded to the tracks by EMI
2021-03-01T18:06:08 < jpa-> again?
2021-03-01T18:06:16 < jpa-> or was it the bearings last time
2021-03-01T18:07:36 < fenugrec> Ah nice, now the Registers window isn't updating
2021-03-01T18:08:37 < fenugrec> at least I found the bug. Geez
2021-03-01T18:09:20 < mawk> rm -Rf ~/STM32CubeIDE
2021-03-01T18:09:35 < mawk> find / -depth -iname '*st*' -delete
2021-03-01T18:10:33 < BrainDamage> how did they manage to get emi? the brakes or the motor's leak?
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2021-03-01T18:25:20 < karlp> fenugrec: and it was....?
2021-03-01T18:30:45 < fenugrec> karlp, well I found no explanation for the weird IDE/gdb behavior, but code was broken (fifo size was declared with wrong size and last element would clobber some important stuff)
2021-03-01T18:34:32 < karlp> good denough
2021-03-01T18:34:37 < karlp> once shit is clobbered lots of shit breaks
2021-03-01T18:34:54 < karlp> like jpa said, crazy behaviour can be tramped variables that then lead to crazy decoding
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2021-03-01T18:39:58 < fenugrec> yeap like you say... it just takes one thing overwritten then all bets are off
2021-03-01T18:40:24 < fenugrec> I'd be curious to know exactly what happened, but life's too short. Moving on the next bug(s0...
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2021-03-01T19:26:59 < Laurenceb> rm -rf
2021-03-01T19:27:14 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: stator coil to stator capacitance
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2021-03-01T19:30:50 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: they have 25MW of IGBT/Tesla batteries
2021-03-01T19:32:47 < Steffanx> How amazing will hyperblaxter be?
2021-03-01T19:38:58 < englishman> high speed welding machines
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2021-03-01T19:40:57 < BrainDamage> why are they reinventing the motor controller/
2021-03-01T19:41:13 < BrainDamage> pretty sure trains got that figured out by now
2021-03-01T19:45:07 < Laurenceb> has to have crazy high power/mass
2021-03-01T19:45:49 < Laurenceb> and a direct drive motor for each wheel
2021-03-01T20:00:00 < vegii> can I safely switch a GPIO with 15µF capacitance on it from high to low? basically charge a 15µF cap from 0V to 3V with a gpio
2021-03-01T20:01:31 < jpa-> vegii: that's likely to exceed the maximum current spec
2021-03-01T20:01:39 < qyx> 15u?
2021-03-01T20:01:42 < qyx> why so much?
2021-03-01T20:01:44 < vegii> hell yea it is, but only for a moment
2021-03-01T20:01:52 < jpa-> you'll need minimum 160ohm series resistance to stay within spec
2021-03-01T20:02:14 < vegii> 150 Ohm is best I can do
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2021-03-01T20:02:21 < jpa-> better than nothing
2021-03-01T20:02:35 < vegii> kidding, I'd rather give it 100 Ohm
2021-03-01T20:02:45 < jpa-> you could also put two GPIOs in parallel and 200ohm from each
2021-03-01T20:03:17 < vegii> I'm thinking of implementing a soft start with 2 GPIOs, one with a series resistor
2021-03-01T20:04:02 < jpa-> ah, so it is a gpio-switched supply to something?
2021-03-01T20:04:13 < vegii> yes, to an OLED
2021-03-01T20:04:30 < vegii> hang on, I'll screenshot the schematic
2021-03-01T20:05:02 < jpa-> i've put 100nF on GPIOs before - it probably exceeds spec also, but hasn't caused trouble for me
2021-03-01T20:09:06 < vegii> I'm probably gonna run out of GPIOs at this rate
2021-03-01T20:09:09 < vegii> https://i.imgur.com/68RQ5o0.png
2021-03-01T20:10:08 < fenugrec> vegii, and you don't want to switch the oled with a mosfet because... ?
2021-03-01T20:10:21 < jpa-> why do you need to switch the buzzer supply, when you control it with a mosfet anyway?
2021-03-01T20:10:23 < vegii> leakage
2021-03-01T20:10:31 < jpa-> your mosfet leaks so much?
2021-03-01T20:10:41 < qyx> wat leakage
2021-03-01T20:11:20 < qyx> I thing you are overengineering things a bit
2021-03-01T20:11:31 < jpa-> looks like your AO3400A leaks max 5µA, but you can get better ones if that is too much
2021-03-01T20:11:47 < vegii> that is too much, yea
2021-03-01T20:12:02 < qyx> 5 uA is much? CR2032 is 230 mAh
2021-03-01T20:12:12 < qyx> thats 1900 daysň
2021-03-01T20:12:13 < vegii> yes, I want 2 year batt life
2021-03-01T20:12:57 < BrainDamage> did you do a power budget?
2021-03-01T20:13:13 < BrainDamage> sum all the consumptions and calculate relative weights
2021-03-01T20:13:13 < vegii> back of the envelope, sure
2021-03-01T20:13:16 < jpa-> remember that ceramic caps leak also
2021-03-01T20:13:27 < BrainDamage> optimize only the stuff at the top
2021-03-01T20:13:41 < vegii> checked that, samsung caps are pretty gud if you take the 25V rated ones
2021-03-01T20:14:06 < vegii> at 16V or less the leakage gets bigger
2021-03-01T20:14:38 < fenugrec> wonder if a PNP leaks less than a small pmos
2021-03-01T20:14:38 < qyx> your OLED vbat and vdda is not connected, is that ok?
2021-03-01T20:14:49 < vegii> it's work in progress
2021-03-01T20:15:12 < qyx> I wouldn't use that mosfet for buzzer
2021-03-01T20:15:20 < qyx> I would connecte the buzzer between two GPIOs
2021-03-01T20:15:21 < vegii> ah, yea, it has a charge pump
2021-03-01T20:15:31 < vegii> I mean the oled
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2021-03-01T20:16:19 < vegii> not sure how the charge pump works... good point, I should give it 3V on the vbat pin I think
2021-03-01T20:16:21 < BrainDamage> fenugrec: if I remember correctly both structures, there's both a forward biased and a reverse biased junctions in both p-mos and pnp when off, so it boils down to geometry*doping
2021-03-01T20:16:26 < fenugrec> anyway you have the two caps shorted (4.7u and 100n) near VCC, so that`snot going to work
2021-03-01T20:16:52 < vegii> qyx:  yeah, just caps to ground on Vcc, thanks
2021-03-01T20:17:08 < vegii> lol I fucked up
2021-03-01T20:17:21 < qyx> I would say Vbat needs to be connected
2021-03-01T20:17:26 < qyx> to the.. bat
2021-03-01T20:18:23 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, yeah also maybe Vbe=0 isn't enough to reverse-bias the junction enough 
2021-03-01T20:19:16 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/CSD13380F3/296-47750-1-ND/8133099  these have nice low leakage of 50nA
2021-03-01T20:20:39 < vegii> qyx:  fixed  https://i.imgur.com/TSm0pHD.png
2021-03-01T20:20:41 < jpa-> you could switch OLED with one and buzzer with other
2021-03-01T20:20:54 < BrainDamage> actually, no, I was remembering wrong, in discrete mos the source is shorted to the bulk, so that makes a single reverse junction
2021-03-01T20:21:54 < BrainDamage> and there's a single reverse junction in pnp when you account that the base can sink current
2021-03-01T20:22:00 < jpa-> but if your battery is CR2032 or similar with high internal resistance, it is still a good idea to either reduce the OLED capacitors or to have a soft-start
2021-03-01T20:22:50 < vegii> I'll still have a decoupling cap on the microcontroller
2021-03-01T20:23:41 < jpa-> of course
2021-03-01T20:23:53 < vegii> and I'd probably need a P MOSFET not N ch for the oled
2021-03-01T20:24:23 < jpa-> you can switch oled on GND side as long as you put all GPIOs to high or input mode on STM32
2021-03-01T20:24:43 < vegii> that's probably not the lowest power state
2021-03-01T20:24:56 < jpa-> what is lower power than that?
2021-03-01T20:25:08 < vegii> all outputs low is usually lowest afaik
2021-03-01T20:25:16 < fenugrec> I think analog-in is the lowest on stm32 actually
2021-03-01T20:25:17 < jpa-> i'm not aware of such a difference
2021-03-01T20:25:24 < vegii> and in this case this would cause backfeeding
2021-03-01T20:25:26 < jpa-> analog-in is lowest power if the input voltage is undefined
2021-03-01T20:25:43 < jpa-> but in this case it would be pretty close to Vdd
2021-03-01T20:25:56 < jpa-> so even digital-in or digital-out-high should work fine
2021-03-01T20:26:24 < BrainDamage> analog in or digital-out-low are both low impedance to gnd
2021-03-01T20:26:27 < vegii> that will cause leakage inside the microcontroller peripherals
2021-03-01T20:26:42 < jpa-> BrainDamage: why would analog in be low impedance to gnd?
2021-03-01T20:26:59 < jpa-> vegii: AFAIK digital-out-high has exactly same leakage as digital-out-low
2021-03-01T20:27:02 < BrainDamage> nvm, i'm tired
2021-03-01T20:28:07 < vegii> I'll see if I have enough pins to do this and think about adding fets if I run out
2021-03-01T20:28:10 < jpa-> AN4899 is the documentation on this
2021-03-01T20:28:55 < vegii> also, since this oled driver apparently has a boost converter, it might be fine being powered through a small resistor lol
2021-03-01T20:29:05 < fenugrec> thanks for that AN
2021-03-01T20:29:23 < jpa-> though you'll be wasting your precious power in that resistor
2021-03-01T20:29:35 < vegii> only in the active state
2021-03-01T20:30:34 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/CSD25480F3T/296-44126-1-ND/6005139  but yeah, no reason why you couldn't use a p-fet if you want
2021-03-01T20:30:57 < vegii> hmmmmm... what if I added some kind of a fet-as-a-resistor
2021-03-01T20:31:08 < jpa-> you mean for soft start?
2021-03-01T20:31:12 < vegii> yes
2021-03-01T20:31:18 < jpa-> you can put a series resistor on gate and it will switch slower
2021-03-01T20:31:37 < jpa-> calculate from the "input capacitance" and the resistor value
2021-03-01T20:31:55 < vegii> I mean something like a NTC resistor effectively
2021-03-01T20:32:07 < vegii> but done using a fet, a cap and a resistor
2021-03-01T20:32:21 < jpa-> fet gate is a capacitor to start with
2021-03-01T20:32:27 < fenugrec> mosfet already has a "cap" built-in !
2021-03-01T20:32:28 < BrainDamage> the fe already has a cap inside
2021-03-01T20:32:32 < fenugrec> hahah
2021-03-01T20:32:33 < BrainDamage> whenever you want or not
2021-03-01T20:32:46 < jpa-> putting extra capacitor to the drain does define the slope more accurately though, because it forms negative feedback
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2021-03-01T20:33:10 < vegii> so like a series P fet with gate wired to drain via a 1meg resistor?
2021-03-01T20:33:37 < jpa-> i can't parse that sentence
2021-03-01T20:33:39 < fenugrec> no, GPIO to gate via resistor
2021-03-01T20:33:45 < CasperLaptop> Hi there, I need to do some canbus stuff, and I see the official stm32 stuff and the arduino stuff, which path should I go?
2021-03-01T20:34:07 < jpa-> CasperLaptop: are you more of an arduino person, or are you a real programmer?
2021-03-01T20:34:09 < vegii> I'll experiment in Falstad with that concept
2021-03-01T20:34:17 < fenugrec> CasperLaptop, missing parameters and context.
2021-03-01T20:34:47 < fenugrec> aka. "I need to drive a car, should I get a van or a sedan"
2021-03-01T20:34:59 < jpa-> https://i.stack.imgur.com/Csph6.png   this is the fancy well-defined slope way of soft start with mosfet
2021-03-01T20:35:08 < jpa-> the lazy simple way is just a resistor from gpio to gate
2021-03-01T20:35:26 < CasperLaptop> jpa-: yes. :D  really, I'm not a programmer, and I don't like much arduino junk, arduino appear more documented however... so not sure..
2021-03-01T20:35:44 < jpa-> CasperLaptop: i think STM32cube is probably worse than arduino though
2021-03-01T20:35:47 < BrainDamage> arduino has more examples, not necessarily documented
2021-03-01T20:36:04 < BrainDamage> because the abstraction can leak
2021-03-01T20:36:14 < BrainDamage> and then you need the doc on the guts
2021-03-01T20:36:18 < jpa-> stm32 is a world where everyone can pick their own software platform and make fun of those who picked wrong
2021-03-01T20:36:46 < jpa-> BrainDamage: which you have, and the arduino code isn't full of 5000 abstraction layers like "official stm32 stuff"
2021-03-01T20:37:32 < BrainDamage> that one I've never touched
2021-03-01T20:37:40 < BrainDamage> it always looked ... scary
2021-03-01T20:37:56 < jpa-> i haven't touched stm32 arduino stuff or stm32cube stuff either
2021-03-01T20:38:44 < CasperLaptop> the dev boards I got (blue pill) come with the arduino booloader, which might have some advantage, or not
2021-03-01T20:39:18 < jpa-> you'll want to use a real debugger instead of a bootloader in any case
2021-03-01T20:39:41 < CasperLaptop> yeah, and cube have a debugger so... might go that way...
2021-03-01T20:40:19 < jpa-> uh, you can use gdb with arduino also
2021-03-01T20:40:34 < CasperLaptop> it will be a relativelly simple 'complex' code... basically a can blaster, with possibly responding to some messages... and write to sd card...
2021-03-01T20:40:35 < jpa-> it does not depend on what software you use on the chip
2021-03-01T20:44:42 < CasperLaptop> I guess I'll try cube
2021-03-01T20:45:14 < ventyl> which chip does this blue pill have?
2021-03-01T20:46:00 < CasperLaptop> STM32F103C8T6
2021-03-01T20:46:18 < ventyl> that should be doable even with opencm3
2021-03-01T20:46:27 < ventyl> to me the Cube is like brain cancer
2021-03-01T20:51:30 < emeryth> CasperLaptop: STM32F103 can't use CAN and USB at the same time by the way
2021-03-01T20:52:11 < CasperLaptop> oh right    I forgot, but I got what I needed... so, yeah...
2021-03-01T20:52:18 < CasperLaptop> but I can use can2 and usb
2021-03-01T20:56:13 < vegii> jpa-: concept works in a crude simulation https://tinyurl.com/y8fjhps4
2021-03-01T20:56:30 < vegii> the soft start...
2021-03-01T20:57:01 < vegii> not sure what my gate capacitance is tbh
2021-03-01T20:57:08 < Laurenceb> vegii> I tried large caps on stm32 gpio
2021-03-01T20:57:13 < Laurenceb> you can fry the gpio
2021-03-01T20:57:22 < Laurenceb> few µF is the most you can have
2021-03-01T20:57:24 < vegii> yeah, hence the softstart idea
2021-03-01T20:57:33 < vegii> I have 15uF
2021-03-01T20:58:00 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage:  for the EMI, looping all three motor phases through a ferrite ring should fix the problem
2021-03-01T20:58:08 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna suggest that
2021-03-01T20:59:13 -!- splud [~noneya.bi@unaffiliated/splud] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-03-01T20:59:23 < BrainDamage> i don't understand one thing, I tought you were a competitor with hyperloop, not a consultant?
2021-03-01T21:05:05 < Steffanx> he calls his loop hyperloop all the time
2021-03-01T21:05:15 < Steffanx> he got stuck
2021-03-01T21:09:46 -!- Simon-_ is now known as Simon--
2021-03-01T21:13:17 < vegii> ...why do I continue to have such a significant voltage drop across the fet tho?
2021-03-01T21:13:33 < fenugrec> vegii, ... is that switch supposed to be a gpio ?
2021-03-01T21:13:40 < vegii> yes
2021-03-01T21:13:46 < fenugrec> why is it connected directly to a 10u
2021-03-01T21:13:53 < fenugrec> and not the gate
2021-03-01T21:13:56 < vegii> to compare side by side
2021-03-01T21:14:12 < vegii> oh, because I don't want leakage on the fet
2021-03-01T21:14:24 < vegii> the left cap is just for comparison
2021-03-01T21:14:48 < fenugrec> I see
2021-03-01T21:15:14 < fenugrec> where do you see a "significant voltage drop" then ? steady state should be close to 0 
2021-03-01T21:15:43 < vegii> yea, but in the simulation the fet still drops like half a volt
2021-03-01T21:15:53 < fenugrec> not the one you linked
2021-03-01T21:16:17 < vegii> huh
2021-03-01T21:16:25 < fenugrec> 3V out
2021-03-01T21:17:02 < vegii> ah, yes, it drops after I've added 220 Ohm load resistor parallel to the right cap
2021-03-01T21:18:46 < vegii> and that drop mostly went away after tweaking the fet's beta value from 20m to 200m and I don't see that specified in the ao3400 datasheet
2021-03-01T21:21:57 < vegii> I think this fet has beta higher than 1
2021-03-01T21:22:15 < vegii> if that's the I/V ratio
2021-03-01T21:22:40 < vegii> but that would be Rds(ON)
2021-03-01T21:23:15 < vegii> or the inverse of it
2021-03-01T21:24:18 < vegii> I should probably try to run ltspice in wine or a VM
2021-03-01T21:24:34 < fenugrec> yes
2021-03-01T21:25:47 < vegii> or... grab a simillar enough cap and probe around on a breadboard
2021-03-01T21:26:05 < CasperLaptop> yay.... the st tutorial... don't work    lol
2021-03-01T21:26:32 < vegii> si2302 is simillar enough, both N channel and sot-23
2021-03-01T21:26:58 < vegii> I meant simillar enough fet lol
2021-03-01T21:28:57 < englishman> moebius hyperloop
2021-03-01T21:30:36 < ventyl> CasperLaptop: that's not unheard of... vendor-specific way is usually set with problems and discomfort
2021-03-01T21:31:06 < ventyl> i have just checked how to run bluepill using STM32 stlink SW and it is simply too complicated
2021-03-01T21:32:33 < mawk> the last trend is redpill
2021-03-01T21:32:36 < mawk> ask Laurenceb 
2021-03-01T21:32:58 < ventyl> complaint was more like in the direction of SW tools rather than HW
2021-03-01T21:33:26 < mawk> it was a joke
2021-03-01T21:34:47 < Steffanx> BAD JOKER
2021-03-01T21:35:20 < CasperLaptop> ow well, I'll try stuff, I'll bug ya later :D  see ya
2021-03-01T21:35:26 -!- CasperLaptop [~Casper@unaffiliated/thephantom] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-03-01T21:37:26 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2021-03-01T21:46:13 < vegii> huh, I don't have any sot23 P mosfets
2021-03-01T21:46:58 < Steffanx> buy some
2021-03-01T21:48:32 < vegii> good idea
2021-03-01T21:48:46 < vegii> apparently I didn't think of that
2021-03-01T21:49:07 < Steffanx> yw
2021-03-01T21:54:53 < mawk> lol
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2021-03-01T22:06:32 < Laurenceb> >bluepill >redpill
2021-03-01T22:06:37 < Laurenceb> >not brownpill
2021-03-01T22:06:50 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: its a hyperloop clone
2021-03-01T22:08:48 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
2021-03-01T22:09:08 < Laurenceb> >radfems in uk want to make it illegal to strangle someone if they survive
2021-03-01T22:09:27 < Laurenceb> sheet all this time I could just strangle people for the lulz and get away with it
2021-03-01T22:10:34 < Laurenceb> inb4 radfems make it illegal to kill, dismember, and eat someone if they are a woman
2021-03-01T22:12:21 < vegii> reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
2021-03-01T22:12:28 < vegii> OUT OF PINS!
2021-03-01T22:12:40 < mawk> add multiplex0r
2021-03-01T22:12:44 < vegii> noooo
2021-03-01T22:12:50 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-03-01T22:12:54 < Laurenceb> the arduino way
2021-03-01T22:13:15 < Laurenceb> bbl going to strangle random people for the lulz
2021-03-01T22:13:26 < Laurenceb> according to radfems its totally legal right now
2021-03-01T22:13:49 < Laurenceb> its ok cuz I'll call them an ambulance
2021-03-01T22:13:57 < mawk> lol
2021-03-01T22:14:32 < Laurenceb> inb4 they try to make "surprise sex" illegal
2021-03-01T22:14:44 < vegii> how did this happen to me
2021-03-01T22:14:51 < vegii> I ran out of pins
2021-03-01T22:14:56 < Laurenceb> >atm, its totally legal to raep someone in the uk if you shout surprise
2021-03-01T22:15:12 < zyp> Laurenceb, you're an ambulance
2021-03-01T22:15:22 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-03-01T22:15:33 < Laurenceb> well I used to lurk in one
2021-03-01T22:15:41 < vegii> well shit
2021-03-01T22:15:51 < vegii> ok, design revision
2021-03-01T22:16:13 < vegii> 4 LEDs müssen WEG!
2021-03-01T22:16:21 < vegii> GEMACHT!
2021-03-01T22:16:24 < Laurenceb> >germans
2021-03-01T22:16:28 < Laurenceb> sosig heil
2021-03-01T22:16:44 < Laurenceb> oi where is my compensation for carpet bombing Coventry?
2021-03-01T22:17:01 < Laurenceb> I demand reparations!
2021-03-01T22:17:15 < Laurenceb> stop oppressing me!
2021-03-01T22:17:17 < vegii> wait a second, I could use 1 pin per 4 buttons and use voltage dividers
2021-03-01T22:17:52 < englishman> with Fun if you press more than 1 at a time
2021-03-01T22:18:07 < vegii> right...
2021-03-01T22:18:35 < vegii> well, I could probably map all possible states in some clever way
2021-03-01T22:18:37 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY
2021-03-01T22:18:40 < englishman> better way: have four orthogonal signals into each button, then demodulate them in the stm32
2021-03-01T22:20:44 < vegii> huh
2021-03-01T22:21:24 < vegii> that's some clever fuckery
2021-03-01T22:23:33 < vegii> or maybe I could somehow squish LEDs and buttons onto the same pins
2021-03-01T22:24:29 < vegii> like the input_pullup thing with low duty cycle when just reading the button and keeping it pulled up for lighting the LED
2021-03-01T22:26:08 < vegii> except I want buttons for rising edge interrupts, so 
2021-03-01T22:26:57 < vegii> still seems doable
2021-03-01T22:30:13 < qyx> I would attach some LC resonant circuit on every button and feed them with a PRN sequence
2021-03-01T22:30:22 < qyx> then do FFT to determine which buttons are pressed
2021-03-01T22:30:37 < qyx> englishman approves
2021-03-01T22:31:41 < englishman> attach an esp32 to each button and poll them over wifi
2021-03-01T22:33:46 < qyx> you won
2021-03-01T22:38:07 < vegii> top left corner https://i.imgur.com/HRrQRKp.png
2021-03-01T22:40:42 < vegii> oh... I have 2 more LEDs to blink tho...
2021-03-01T22:41:12 < englishman> why that package?
2021-03-01T22:41:18 < englishman> and that series
2021-03-01T22:41:30 < englishman> use a bigger one
2021-03-01T22:41:51 < vegii> that series is for lowest sleep current with RTC active
2021-03-01T22:42:03 < vegii> and that package is for... 
2021-03-01T22:42:19 < vegii> ...availability reasons
2021-03-01T22:42:38 < vegii> in my... supply chain
2021-03-01T22:43:04 < englishman> sounds like a poor compromise
2021-03-01T22:43:07 < vegii> €8.87 on aliexpress with free shipping
2021-03-01T22:43:19 < vegii> for 10pcs
2021-03-01T22:44:41 < englishman> looks like l5 has lower sleep+rtc current too
2021-03-01T22:44:43 < englishman> from datasheet
2021-03-01T22:44:53 < Steffanx> come on englishman , not everyone is one a moneyed westener budget
2021-03-01T22:44:56 < englishman> l011 0.54 µA Stop mode + RTC + 2 KB RAM retention
2021-03-01T22:45:06 < englishman> l552 222 nA Standby mode with RTC
2021-03-01T22:45:14 < Steffanx> *on
2021-03-01T22:45:15 < vegii> :O
2021-03-01T22:46:33 < qyx> but stop with rtc != standby
2021-03-01T22:46:45 < qyx> you cannot exit standby except with reset
2021-03-01T22:47:03 < englishman> o
2021-03-01T22:47:04 < vegii> not even with like a RTC timer?
2021-03-01T22:48:03 < qyx> yeah, you can use rtc alarm
2021-03-01T22:48:08 < vegii> what is my lowest power state with RTC or pin rising edge wake up?
2021-03-01T22:48:08 < englishman> in that case yeah 500nA is p good
2021-03-01T22:48:25 < qyx> thats not the difference
2021-03-01T22:48:33 < qyx> you can wake up from all states except shutdown
2021-03-01T22:49:12 < vegii> so including standby easily
2021-03-01T22:49:43 < englishman> you can wake up from standby using those wkup pins and even uart falling edge, lptim right?
2021-03-01T22:50:26 < vegii> > 0.29 μA Stop mode (16 wakeup lines)
2021-03-01T22:50:26 < vegii> > 0.54 μA Stop mode + RTC + 2 KB RAM retention
2021-03-01T22:50:50 < qyx> yes you can
2021-03-01T22:50:58 < qyx> but as I say thats not the difference
2021-03-01T22:51:05 < qyx> the difference is where the execution continues
2021-03-01T22:51:06 < vegii> I'm gonna assume those 16 wakeup lines also apply to the 0.54uA state without reading further just yet
2021-03-01T22:51:10 < qyx> stop modes keep the state
2021-03-01T22:51:22 < qyx> standby exits the same way as if you asserted reset
2021-03-01T22:51:39 < qyx> so you have to account for that
2021-03-01T22:51:47 < vegii> because RAM is not retained?
2021-03-01T22:51:52 < qyx> nothing is retained
2021-03-01T22:51:58 < qyx> except when explicitly state
2021-03-01T22:52:04 < qyx> theres a table in the RM
2021-03-01T22:52:35 < qyx> SRAM and register contents are lost except for the RTC registers,
2021-03-01T22:52:36 < qyx> RTC backup registers and Standby circuitry
2021-03-01T22:52:37 < qyx> for L0
2021-03-01T22:53:15 < vegii> yeah, I'm only gonna use the 0.54µA mode, not lower
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2021-03-01T22:55:36 < vegii> qyx: btw. how does resuming from stop work?
2021-03-01T22:57:42 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/VdW4O
2021-03-01T22:57:45 < qyx> thats for freertos
2021-03-01T22:58:14 < qyx> just set a LPTIM compare, it properly asserts the required EXTI line to wake up
2021-03-01T22:58:23 < qyx> with RTC you have to do some magic with configuring EXTI
2021-03-01T22:58:25 < qyx> at least on L4
2021-03-01T22:59:26 < qyx> execution continues after the wfi instruction
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2021-03-01T23:00:59 < vegii> can this run freertos...
2021-03-01T23:01:17 < vegii> with 2k RAM and 16k flash
2021-03-01T23:03:07 < qyx> freertos alone yeah
2021-03-01T23:04:00 < Steffanx> who needs freertos
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2021-03-01T23:04:42 < qyx> vegii: check chibios nil
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2021-03-01T23:05:24 < vegii> holy shit
2021-03-01T23:07:20 < vegii> I wanna play RTTTL ringtones on the buzzer, so an RTOS could be actually useful
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2021-03-01T23:07:28 < vegii> *a RTOS
2021-03-01T23:07:41 < Steffanx> btw vegii didnt you forget to introduce yourself? "Hi im  vegii im from poland im 27 years old"?
2021-03-01T23:07:45 < vegii> not saying it would be necessary
2021-03-01T23:08:23 < vegii> that number is off
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2021-03-01T23:09:51 < fenugrec> if you want to mux 4 buttons on 1 ADC, just scale them with resistors with 1/2/4/8 ratios
2021-03-01T23:10:59 < vegii> fenugrec: neat idea, but I need interrupts this time
2021-03-01T23:11:33 < qyx> a truly low power design uses double throw switches to change H/L
2021-03-01T23:11:39 < qyx> to save power on the pullupdown
2021-03-01T23:11:43 < fenugrec> diode them to your interrupt pin
2021-03-01T23:13:01 < vegii> Steffanx: how did you come up with that anyway?
2021-03-01T23:13:14 < Steffanx> haha vegii
2021-03-01T23:13:37 < Steffanx> my left thumb.
2021-03-01T23:14:01 < Steffanx> How close was poland?
2021-03-01T23:14:50 < vegii> explain left thumb
2021-03-01T23:14:59 < Steffanx> i made it up
2021-03-01T23:15:05 < vegii> mhm
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2021-03-01T23:59:07 < bitmask> hmm
2021-03-01T23:59:16 < bitmask> is a 12" diameter bell jar big enough? :P
--- Day changed Tue Mar 02 2021
2021-03-02T00:04:00 < zyp> no
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2021-03-02T00:18:56 < karlp> nice picostart footprint there jpa...
2021-03-02T00:19:34 < karlp> I love that that sort of thing exists though
2021-03-02T00:19:46 < karlp> small enough tht rds on gets so small that you can still put 3A through it
2021-03-02T00:23:25 < Laurenceb> http://empathygap.uk/?p=3612
2021-03-02T00:23:38 < Laurenceb> covid conspiracy confirmed
2021-03-02T00:26:40 < karlp> jpa what's that usb vbus switch from? It's r+r+c+fet, vs like an apl3511... 
2021-03-02T00:26:56 < karlp> (but maybe I'm too afraid of justbuilding things myself from fets like you do)
2021-03-02T00:27:51 < karlp> ventyl: what does "shoujld be doable even with opencm3" mean?
2021-03-02T00:28:06 < karlp> were you trying to suggest that because f1 is shitty 10 years old libopencm3 might actually support it?
2021-03-02T00:28:36 < qyx> lol
2021-03-02T00:28:39 < ventyl> karlp: nope, that it isn't using FDCAN peripheral, which isn't mainlined yet
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2021-03-02T00:29:57 < karlp> why the fuck is veggi stuck on tssop20?
2021-03-02T00:30:36 < qyx> because $
2021-03-02T00:30:51 < qyx> qfn28 might be actually cheaper though
2021-03-02T00:30:58 < qyx> and smaller and all that stuff
2021-03-02T00:31:27 < karlp> ventyl: are you the one with the fdcan PR open?
2021-03-02T00:31:37 < karlp> you're being very vague if you wanted me to look at that more
2021-03-02T00:31:59 < karlp> were you trying to get me to look at it last week when you offered some "1400 lins of github" without context?
2021-03-02T00:32:39 < ventyl> karlp: yes I am
2021-03-02T00:32:43 < karlp> I don't see how you thought I was supposed to know that ventZI on github and ventyl on some other channel wouild be the same person :)
2021-03-02T00:33:03 < qyx> if you knew slovak keyboards..
2021-03-02T00:33:47 < ventyl> actually some people not familiar with our keyboard realized this elsewhere
2021-03-02T00:33:57 < ventyl> and somehow, ventYl was already claimed
2021-03-02T00:34:18 < karlp> well...
2021-03-02T00:34:41 < karlp> ne more nick/nick association then I guess.
2021-03-02T00:34:57 < karlp> anyone doing the digital embedded world?
2021-03-02T00:34:59 < ventyl> karlp: anyway, I fucked it up the first time
2021-03-02T00:35:09 < karlp> I found the interface all fucked up and did work instead today
2021-03-02T00:35:22 < karlp> and now Ive got like 6 emaisl from vendors trying to setup video calls.
2021-03-02T00:35:33 < karlp> fucking spam tastic
2021-03-02T00:35:48 < karlp> This is Jason from Pro-Data, the cable expert from Taiwan, with 30 years of experience and would like to present you our expertise in 15-20 min. Do you have time during March 1~5?
2021-03-02T00:35:52 < karlp> no jason, I don't...
2021-03-02T00:36:22 < zyp> fun
2021-03-02T00:36:39 < qyx> how was your day today, karlp 
2021-03-02T00:37:03 < karlp> not so bad.
2021-03-02T00:37:10 < karlp> not the most productive
2021-03-02T00:37:26 < karlp> got all the physical things locked on teh pcb now. layout begins....
2021-03-02T00:37:41 < qyx> the hubbish thing?
2021-03-02T00:37:45 < karlp> well, currently, looks like I'm giving my colleague all the layout, and I'm starting next project as he can't do the software
2021-03-02T00:37:52 < karlp> fuck no. I nevwer have time foer that
2021-03-02T00:37:59 < qyx> oh work you said
2021-03-02T00:38:07 < qyx> the new gw I suppose then
2021-03-02T00:38:09 < karlp> though i did decide to do the right thing an dput a fet there instead of a fatarse schottkey
2021-03-02T00:38:27 < karlp> that's also completely at layout stage now I think for rev 2.
2021-03-02T00:38:50 < karlp> so. did anyone answer my query about who's making 100x100mm cases for all the cheap pcbmanufacturing?
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2021-03-02T00:39:59 < karlp> last item of the day was discovering I had a footprint flipped though, so will be flipping footprints and the 3d model tomorrow. exciting
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2021-03-02T01:10:20 < vegii> oh shit...
2021-03-02T01:10:29 < vegii> how am I gonna debug this?
2021-03-02T01:10:49 < vegii> or program it in circuit
2021-03-02T01:10:56 < vegii> I used up all the pins
2021-03-02T01:11:31 < mouseghost> :??
2021-03-02T01:11:48 < vegii> ...except PB1 and PB9, I wonder why those are on the other side of the symbol
2021-03-02T01:14:19 < vegii> meep
2021-03-02T01:14:46 < vegii> good thing I didn't notice those two, so now I have enough pins for SWD
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2021-03-02T01:29:49 < vegii> oh... 
2021-03-02T01:29:49 < vegii> >BOOT0 (Boot memory selection)
2021-03-02T01:29:54 < vegii> that's not a gpio
2021-03-02T01:30:39 < qyx> I am using it as gpio
2021-03-02T01:30:47 < qyx> just make sure it has the correct level during boot
2021-03-02T01:31:07 < vegii> input-only apparently
2021-03-02T01:32:46 < vegii> PB1 looks like a regular GPIO tho, so I'm not sure why it's on the other side of the symbol
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2021-03-02T01:56:14 < karlp> did you consider qfn48? it's ~same size as tssop almost isn't it?
2021-03-02T01:56:59 < qyx> bga100 too :X
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2021-03-02T02:14:45 < vegii> I can spare 1 more pin if I use a proper low leakage fet
2021-03-02T02:15:06 < vegii> for the buzzer
2021-03-02T02:15:33 < vegii> ...please
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2021-03-02T02:16:38 < vegii> preferably sot23 tho I guess soldering a lil 6pin BGA is fine too
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2021-03-02T02:17:25 < qyx> whats the point of the fet buffer?
2021-03-02T02:17:51 < qyx> you need exactly one pin for a buzzer
2021-03-02T02:18:20 < vegii> fet buffer? you mean the inrush current thingy?
2021-03-02T02:18:29 < qyx> meh fet transistor
2021-03-02T02:18:29 < vegii> I've abandoned that idea
2021-03-02T02:19:07 < vegii> I actually need 1 pin if I use an ultra leakage fet, yes
2021-03-02T02:19:16 < vegii> *ultra low leakage
2021-03-02T02:19:26 < qyx> I wouldn't even consider a fet
2021-03-02T02:19:55 < qyx> because the cr2032 is probably not going to source more than a gpio survive
2021-03-02T02:20:09 < qyx> if you need a fet, use a proper one
2021-03-02T02:20:12 < qyx> or a cap in series
2021-03-02T02:20:30 < vegii> what cap in series
2021-03-02T02:20:47 < qyx> you should feed the buzzer with AC anyway
2021-03-02T02:20:58 < qyx> and the cap will block any DC too
2021-03-02T02:21:05 < qyx> thus any leakage
2021-03-02T02:21:12 < vegii> hmm
2021-03-02T02:21:12 < qyx> except of it itself
2021-03-02T02:22:02 < qyx> but the buffer should be fed push-pull
2021-03-02T02:22:08 < qyx> buzzer fuk the zz ff
2021-03-02T02:22:28 < vegii> no, this buzzer wants square wave
2021-03-02T02:22:56 < qyx> is it a magnetic one?
2021-03-02T02:23:00 < vegii> yea
2021-03-02T02:23:09 < qyx> so AC
2021-03-02T02:23:36 < qyx> did you consider using a single inverter gate?
2021-03-02T02:23:41 < vegii> no
2021-03-02T02:23:42 < qyx> or a dedicated driver?
2021-03-02T02:23:51 < vegii> just a single fet low side
2021-03-02T02:27:27 < qyx> check SN74AUP1T04 for example
2021-03-02T02:28:02 < qyx> ok it is only +- 4mA
2021-03-02T02:28:17 < qyx> but something similar definitely exists with Icc < 1 uA
2021-03-02T02:29:02 < vegii> the datasheet for the buzzer and devices that use it use just a single fet low side
2021-03-02T02:29:42 < vegii> I'll just give it 1 pin's current instead of 2 then
2021-03-02T02:30:08 < vegii> since a partially discharged cr2032 won't deliver much anyway
2021-03-02T02:31:47 < qyx> I would also check if there are any high drive strength pins on L0
2021-03-02T02:32:05 < vegii> yea lol, those are what, 15mA?
2021-03-02T02:32:08 < BrainDamage> out of curiosity, what is this device's pourpose? doorbell?
2021-03-02T02:32:30 < qyx> do you expect cr2032 will give you more?
2021-03-02T02:32:37 < qyx> you can feed a LED directly with CR2032
2021-03-02T02:33:05 < vegii> BrainDamage: https://i.imgur.com/VzV5rMw.png
2021-03-02T02:33:18 < vegii> but version with OLED and no radio
2021-03-02T02:34:36 < vegii> you can feed a LED directly with a 9V battery
2021-03-02T02:34:41 < qyx> a partially discharged CR2032 (2.9 V) gives 22 mA short circuit
2021-03-02T02:34:55 < qyx> I just measured
2021-03-02T02:35:22 < vegii> CR2032's voltage does not drop like at all with discharge
2021-03-02T02:35:29 < vegii> idle voltage
2021-03-02T02:35:48 < vegii> their discharge curve is flat as pancake
2021-03-02T02:36:24 < vegii> now I've mixed 2 things together
2021-03-02T02:36:39 < vegii> under load it's no longer as flat
2021-03-02T02:36:50 < qyx> I just opened a new one
2021-03-02T02:36:57 < qyx> 160 mA after 5 s
2021-03-02T02:37:12 < vegii> woah, that's a strong boi
2021-03-02T02:37:47 < qyx> but still
2021-03-02T02:37:53 < qyx> 3 pins to drive a buzzer is just meh
2021-03-02T02:38:23 < vegii> but I do need a fet
2021-03-02T02:39:08 < vegii> that's because then I can draw a lot of instantaneous current from a nearby decoupling cap
2021-03-02T02:39:34 < vegii> it makes it a LOT louder
2021-03-02T02:41:22 < vegii> qyx: skip to 0:31 https://i.imgur.com/WH5SGGv.mp4
2021-03-02T02:41:57 < vegii> this board has a jumper on the decoupling cap
2021-03-02T02:42:43 < vegii> connecting the cap makes it a lot louder and it also makes the fiest pulse of the square wave have that extra umpf
2021-03-02T02:42:56 < vegii> *first pulse
2021-03-02T02:43:24 < vegii> which is especially noticeable in the nokia tune example
2021-03-02T02:44:56 < vegii> adds a bit of a clicking sound to it
2021-03-02T02:45:25 < qyx> did you check how much current is going through the buzzer?
2021-03-02T02:45:52 < vegii> well, it is powered via a series resistor from 3.3V
2021-03-02T02:46:58 < vegii> in this example I think it was 100 Ohm series
2021-03-02T02:47:16 < vegii> and iirc this buzzer has 16 Ohm impedance
2021-03-02T02:48:11 < qyx> so 3.3/116 max
2021-03-02T02:48:23 < qyx> which is roughly 28 mA
2021-03-02T02:48:46 < qyx> maximum
2021-03-02T02:50:54 < vegii> it was still well audible with a 4k7 series resistor
2021-03-02T02:51:22 < vegii> and I'll probably use a smaller and less efficient buzzer
2021-03-02T02:52:17 < qyx> so a single pin in Fm+ mode will do, 20 mA
2021-03-02T02:52:43 < qyx> and switch it to analog input if unused
2021-03-02T02:53:20 < qyx> with a small series resistor
2021-03-02T02:53:27 < vegii> not sure I follow
2021-03-02T02:54:22 < qyx> you just said it is ok with a 100 ohm series resistor
2021-03-02T02:54:37 < qyx> given the 16 ohm impedance of the buzzer itself, the maximum current flowing through it is 28 mA
2021-03-02T02:54:44 < qyx> and thats at 100% duty cycle
2021-03-02T02:55:05 < qyx> you did even say that 4k7 is well audible
2021-03-02T02:55:20 < qyx> which means you actually need much lower currents
2021-03-02T02:55:38 < qyx> there are pins on stm32 switchable to Fm+ mode with +20mA driving capability
2021-03-02T02:55:54 < qyx> so you can avoid any fets and whatnot altogether
2021-03-02T02:55:57 < vegii> why is it called Fm+ ?
2021-03-02T02:56:11 < qyx> because it is meant for i2c Fm+ mode
2021-03-02T02:56:16 < qyx> requiring higher currents
2021-03-02T02:57:00 < qyx> PA9/10, PB6/7
2021-03-02T02:57:06 < vegii> so the fm prolly means fine mad
2021-03-02T02:57:15 < qyx> fast mode +
2021-03-02T02:58:48 < vegii> that's only 20mA sourcing tho, right?
2021-03-02T03:00:06 < vegii> the point of a local decoupling cap and mosfet is to have a wee bit of 3V/16Ohm=187.5mA
2021-03-02T03:00:06 < qyx> probably yes
2021-03-02T03:00:54 < vegii> surely further greatly limited by inductance
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2021-03-02T03:01:19 < qyx> the cap that small will not help you much
2021-03-02T03:01:26 < qyx> *2 at max
2021-03-02T03:02:06 < qyx> maybe a little bit more with duty cycles < 50%
2021-03-02T03:02:13 < qyx> but idk if the buzzer sounds louder then
2021-03-02T03:02:23 < vegii> cr2032-powered BLE beacon keychain finder thingies use that same arrangement,
2021-03-02T03:03:14 < vegii> with an external sot23-3 transistor
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2021-03-02T03:03:29 < vegii> if it was doable with GPIOs, they'd be doing it
2021-03-02T03:04:26 < qyx> I'm not going to persuade you about alternatives because it seems you are just stuck with your 3 gpio arrangement
2021-03-02T03:04:55 < vegii> 2 is enough
2021-03-02T03:05:12 < vegii> 1 would be enough with some really nice fet
2021-03-02T03:06:25 < qyx> you are trying to achieve things with the most cheap china like circuits
2021-03-02T03:07:06 < qyx> a serious magnetic transducers are driven differently
2021-03-02T03:07:18 < vegii> current state https://i.imgur.com/4KXW7wX.png
2021-03-02T03:07:33 < vegii> at least I have all the GPIOs I need
2021-03-02T03:07:40 < qyx> but when low side fet "works" nobody even thinks about it
2021-03-02T03:07:58 < qyx> you can even achieve double the voltage swing
2021-03-02T03:07:59 < vegii> these buzzers are made for it
2021-03-02T03:08:15 < qyx> if driven with two complementary outputs
2021-03-02T03:09:08 < vegii> sure, but there's no free lunch, it would take more current from the already loaded battery
2021-03-02T03:13:31 < qyx> I am curious where were you trying to find your fet
2021-03-02T03:13:41 < qyx> the first cheapest has ~1 uA leakage
2021-03-02T03:14:42 < vegii> lcsc
2021-03-02T03:16:57 < qyx> PMZB600UNEL has < 25 nA
2021-03-02T03:17:29 < qyx> it costs nothing
2021-03-02T03:18:03 < vegii> 6 cents
2021-03-02T03:18:47 < qyx> CSD15380F3 the same
2021-03-02T03:19:31 < qyx> you know the free lunch story
2021-03-02T03:19:39 < vegii> thanks for suggestions, but powering down the section will result in even less leakage
2021-03-02T03:19:50 < qyx> ok then
2021-03-02T03:20:21 < vegii> and I won't get rid of the series resistor to avoid brownouts
2021-03-02T03:24:52 < vegii> thanks for the tip, I'll use fm+ mode on the buzzer supply pin
2021-03-02T03:28:51 < qyx> beware they can sink 20 mA
2021-03-02T03:28:53 < qyx> not source
2021-03-02T04:28:14 < vegii> k thx, I'll use a bigger resistor then
2021-03-02T05:08:51 < vegii> now I wonder what's the failure mode of microcontroller pins
2021-03-02T05:10:12 < vegii> is it the bond wires melting, junction overheating or what
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2021-03-02T06:28:14 < R2COM> bondwires dont melt from 20mA lolz
2021-03-02T06:31:52 < R2COM> amount of current which one can sink or source depends mainly on the power device at IO stage, its effective RdsOn 
2021-03-02T06:32:08 < R2COM> trying to sink more it wont be able to hold target voltage 
2021-03-02T06:32:09 < R2COM> etc
2021-03-02T06:32:51 < R2COM> its good idea maybe to study basic electronics before attempting any "design"
2021-03-02T07:00:38 < jpa-> karlp: that usb vbus switch was from random googling
2021-03-02T07:02:03 < jpa-> karlp: but i've used similar mosfet soft-start circuits, it actually gives quite nice slope on the output voltage
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2021-03-02T08:52:55 < R2COM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAWCyHXA4GM
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2021-03-02T11:17:22 < zyp> stm32g0b1
2021-03-02T11:17:29 < zyp> first g0 with usb
2021-03-02T11:19:56 < zyp> apparently a new version of the usb core that also supports host mode
2021-03-02T11:22:50 < effractur> so wats the selling point of th g series?
2021-03-02T11:22:55 < effractur> compared to the f/l?
2021-03-02T11:25:46 < zyp> well, if f is general purpose and l is low power, then g looks to me like improved general purpose
2021-03-02T11:26:29 < zyp> improved as in newer/better peripherals, etc…
2021-03-02T11:27:04 < jpa-> i thought g was for "low gost"
2021-03-02T11:27:04 < zyp> e.g. the UCPD peripheral
2021-03-02T11:27:57 < jpa-> or maybe it is just "great"
2021-03-02T11:28:08 < zyp> I've used l0 before for generic simple stuff, just because l0 is good enough and f0 is a bit too shitty for what I need
2021-03-02T11:28:21 < zyp> g0 appears to be both better and cheaper than l0
2021-03-02T11:28:46 < zyp> although I don't have a price on g0b1 yet :)
2021-03-02T11:29:11 < zyp> but if I can get g0b1 as cheap as l052, I'm happy
2021-03-02T11:30:25 < zyp> looking at how they've added host support to the usb core now, apparently it's just bolted onto the device core
2021-03-02T11:30:41 < zyp> by making use of the upper 16-bit of each register
2021-03-02T11:31:33 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o-4yLRRgB8
2021-03-02T11:31:57 < zyp> e.g. endpoint registers are the same, they've just added an addr field to each and a few more status bits
2021-03-02T11:33:06 < zyp> and also added a few bits in the other registers to set it to host mode
2021-03-02T11:49:11 < jadew> https://vnexplorer.net/2-year-old-vietnamese-girl-survives-fall-from-12th-floor-thanks-to-superhero-delivery-man-a2021127002.html
2021-03-02T11:49:20 < jadew> video here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/lulg6m/a_3yearold_girl_survives_fall_from_a_12thfloor/
2021-03-02T11:51:15 < karlp> g series goals/claims are cheaper overall by process changes, and cheaper to use by getting rid of pin compat and simplifying pinouts and reducing number of vdd pins needing decoupling
2021-03-02T11:52:14 < karlp> Isuspect whatever they did has increased yield? prices are a lot lower for some parts?
2021-03-02T11:52:54 < karlp> qyx: they probably got their fet from fets.loldongs...
2021-03-02T11:53:07 < karlp> ao3400/ao3401 is a nice easy cheap choice for alot of things.
2021-03-02T11:55:50 < jadew> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/man-killed-cockfight-rooster-knife-india-b1808589.html
2021-03-02T11:55:59 < jadew> ok, I'm done for the day
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2021-03-02T12:19:43 < zyp> the so8 g0 is kinda cute, but the qfn28 is smaller
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2021-03-02T12:23:33 < jadew> https://i.redd.it/hiz67jbgr7j61.jpg
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2021-03-02T13:23:42 < karlp> huh, murata magic strap is a neat idea...
2021-03-02T13:24:06 < karlp> I mean, nothing ground breaking, I just hadn't really thought of using rfid tags on pcbs directyly to replace labels
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2021-03-02T13:27:03 < qyx> but people are RF-blind by default, you know
2021-03-02T13:28:16 < qyx> I mean, except in visible region
2021-03-02T13:28:59 < srk> lol
2021-03-02T13:32:29 < englishman> are they eol?
2021-03-02T13:35:49 < Mangy_Dog>  Ive had to +R as i was getting DM spam saying i was harrasing people.... Going by freenode channel looks like the networks being attacked.  By all means everyone who can should +R
2021-03-02T13:37:01 < englishman> or stop harassing people
2021-03-02T13:37:06 < Mangy_Dog> D:
2021-03-02T13:40:09 < karlp> englishman: are what eol? magicstrap? doesn't look like it.
2021-03-02T13:44:18 < englishman> oh I just went on mouser and half of them were
2021-03-02T13:44:27 < englishman> v cool though
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2021-03-02T13:53:14 < karlp> some germans on ew2021 are doing tech for embedding them into pcbs at manufacutring stage
2021-03-02T13:53:23 < karlp> so "tamper proof" and "invisible" shits
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2021-03-02T14:03:33 < karlp> fuckingvirtualconference with 40 person limit on session
2021-03-02T14:03:36 < karlp> wtf bullshit is this.
2021-03-02T14:05:06 < BrainDamage> to reduce anxiety on the speaker
2021-03-02T14:05:18 < BrainDamage> and the server load
2021-03-02T14:08:57 < BrainDamage> if you have a 4L board, you can put the coil of the rfid in the power planes and then all you'd see would be just another chip
2021-03-02T14:12:34 < karlp> it's a fucking diigtal conference, what's the fucking point if you can't have digital people
2021-03-02T14:12:43 < karlp> fucking chaturbate/only fans can do like thousands.
2021-03-02T14:13:00 < karlp> how is possibly ok to run a "professional" serviec that handles.... 40
2021-03-02T14:13:28 < zyp> those are not bidir, are they?
2021-03-02T14:14:01 < zyp> isn't chaturbate/onlyfans something like twitch/youtube live for porn?
2021-03-02T14:15:07 < karlp> let peopel ask their questions why chat, not video?
2021-03-02T14:15:59 < karlp> the "schedule" for this thing is shitty interface, so I'm currently on a waiting list for ~everything that looked interesting.
2021-03-02T14:16:07 < karlp> tthat's a failure of a conference if it's "digital"
2021-03-02T14:16:27 < zyp> yeah, sounds like bullshit
2021-03-02T14:16:29 < karlp> fosdem/ccc with limited rooms still let you watch and type
2021-03-02T14:17:34 < BrainDamage> some people in marketing think being exclusive gives you value
2021-03-02T14:32:25 < ventyl> karlp: Elektrobit had some virtual courses and there the limit was like 12
2021-03-02T14:33:16 < ventyl> friggin german automotive industry. I guess they didn't realize yet, that Berlin wall was torn down three decades ago
2021-03-02T15:06:49 < karlp> heh, got spam on the ew2021 thing, replied, "ok, what's this module cost in like 200s..."
2021-03-02T15:06:59 < karlp> "let me send an eval board! your address is blah right?"
2021-03-02T15:07:21 < karlp> hold up buddy, you dont' need to send me evals when I don't eve know the pricing?
2021-03-02T15:08:22 < jpa-> they want free product testing :)
2021-03-02T15:09:19  * karlp wires mains up to their products too.....
2021-03-02T15:09:22 < karlp> think they'd approve?
2021-03-02T15:10:02 < jpa-> at least i'm 100% satisfied with your testing efforts
2021-03-02T15:10:53 < karlp> fuckin what. this session now is trying to start ane xternal zoom call, so much for this "platform"
2021-03-02T15:10:56 < jpa-> though i'm a bit unsure if i needed to actually send you real electronics - maybe a block of plastic would have done the same? ;)
2021-03-02T15:11:03 < karlp> fuck you :)
2021-03-02T15:11:14 < karlp> I gave you real world evidence of hazardous indication
2021-03-02T15:11:25 < karlp> because it was teh 0 readings that made me start doing silly shit :)
2021-03-02T15:11:34 < jpa-> yeah :)
2021-03-02T15:13:59 < karlp> heh, modbus updated the application spec docs to change to client/server
2021-03-02T15:14:14 < karlp> with... no changelog, and no filename change, so... good job guys, but hey, whatever, progress
2021-03-02T15:14:35 < jpa-> rewrite history, slaves never existed
2021-03-02T15:15:04 < mxwk> lol
2021-03-02T15:16:17 < ventyl> will SPI rename pins?
2021-03-02T15:16:24 < jpa-> they did already
2021-03-02T15:16:28 < ventyl> wat?
2021-03-02T15:16:28 < jpa-> COPI CIPO
2021-03-02T15:16:29 < mxwk> oh no
2021-03-02T15:16:36 < mxwk> pipo
2021-03-02T15:17:14 < ventyl> so are all the old devices now officially considered being racist now?
2021-03-02T15:17:23 < mxwk> yes they should all be replaced 
2021-03-02T15:17:35 < karlp> depends who's talking.
2021-03-02T15:17:48 < ventyl> great. during lockdown evenings, I'll create nice little paper KKK caps for them
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2021-03-02T16:37:07 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
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2021-03-02T16:51:15 < Laurenceb> N-bus
2021-03-02T16:54:05 < mxwk> ohno not the n word
2021-03-02T16:54:24 < mxwk> Laurenceb please rename to Lxurenceb
2021-03-02T16:54:30 < mxwk> the a is oppressive
2021-03-02T16:54:34 < mxwk> it's the a of man
2021-03-02T16:54:41 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf wikipedo is already updated
2021-03-02T16:55:00 < mxwk> they will try to rewrite history in it maybe
2021-03-02T16:55:13 < mxwk> like for the h264 project
2021-03-02T16:55:32 < mxwk> lead dev changed his gender so he rewrote all commits with new name and force pushed it
2021-03-02T16:55:37 < mxwk> and broke everyone's repo
2021-03-02T16:56:14 < Laurenceb> lolllll wtf
2021-03-02T16:56:36 < Laurenceb> >parent child
2021-03-02T16:56:42 < Laurenceb> cuz that makes perfect sense
2021-03-02T16:56:50 < mxwk> that's still a bit oppressive imo
2021-03-02T16:56:54 < Laurenceb> also children getting oppressed by parents much
2021-03-02T16:56:57 < mxwk> I have a few infertile friends
2021-03-02T16:57:02 < Laurenceb> keeekkk
2021-03-02T16:57:04 < mxwk> they would feel offended by this
2021-03-02T16:57:32 < Laurenceb> as if crusty old PLC installation crew even know what blm is
2021-03-02T16:57:34 < mxwk> also some friends that had miscarriages, that would offend then too
2021-03-02T16:57:40 < mxwk> lol
2021-03-02T16:58:07  * Laurenceb screwed up on teams
2021-03-02T16:58:12 < mxwk> what did you do
2021-03-02T16:58:20 < Laurenceb> for some reason my lunix pc caused everyones audio to delay 5 seconds
2021-03-02T16:58:21 < mxwk> you showed yourself wanking?
2021-03-02T16:58:25 < mxwk> nice
2021-03-02T16:58:31 < mxwk> teams on Linux is awful
2021-03-02T16:58:32 < Laurenceb> everyone was wondering wtf was going on for about 5 minutes
2021-03-02T16:58:34 < Laurenceb> kek
2021-03-02T16:58:43 < mxwk> it makes the 8 cores of my core i7 go 100%
2021-03-02T16:58:44 < Laurenceb> me included
2021-03-02T16:58:49 < Laurenceb> yeah same here
2021-03-02T16:58:49 < mxwk> even when not doing anything
2021-03-02T16:58:52 < mxwk> just on the splash page
2021-03-02T16:58:59 < Laurenceb> I have to kill it when not in use
2021-03-02T16:59:02 < mxwk> yeah
2021-03-02T16:59:14 < Laurenceb> so I missed a meeting this morning
2021-03-02T16:59:17 < Laurenceb> double derp
2021-03-02T17:00:07 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna try to work out wtf the problem is, but its prob unfixable
2021-03-02T17:00:27 < mxwk> probably not fixable
2021-03-02T17:00:38 < Laurenceb> its a big binary blob
2021-03-02T17:00:49 < Laurenceb> but maybe there is some pulseaudio setting that fixes it
2021-03-02T17:01:08 < jpa-> 2021 is the year of linux on desktop, not the year of audio on linux
2021-03-02T17:01:28 < mxwk> my audio works perfectly
2021-03-02T17:01:43 < mxwk> except when it breaks down for no reason then works again for no reason
2021-03-02T17:01:46 < BrainDamage> wait until pipewire will bring us back 10 years
2021-03-02T17:01:48 < mxwk> but that happens only once a month
2021-03-02T17:01:59 < mxwk> what's that
2021-03-02T17:02:28 < qyx> maybe a new version of oss
2021-03-02T17:03:21 < BrainDamage> a multimedia framework that essentially reinvents gstreamer, and implements alsa, pulse and jack userspace
2021-03-02T17:03:29 < BrainDamage> but also does video
2021-03-02T17:03:30 < mxwk> ugly
2021-03-02T17:03:36 < mxwk> why centralization
2021-03-02T17:04:12 < mxwk> isn't pulse already userspace anyway?
2021-03-02T17:04:15 < karlp> "only way to meet the design goals" blah
2021-03-02T17:04:25 < karlp> yeah, but people didn't like pulse, sothey remade it...
2021-03-02T17:04:34 < mxwk> it's racism against poettering
2021-03-02T17:04:36 < mxwk> 100% sure
2021-03-02T17:04:48 < mxwk> everyone hates him
2021-03-02T17:04:52 < BrainDamage> they are all userspace
2021-03-02T17:04:53 < mxwk> but I think he's a smart guy
2021-03-02T17:04:59 < BrainDamage> even alsa has a usrspace part
2021-03-02T17:05:51 < BrainDamage> people don't notice it because it's a lib instead of a daemon,
2021-03-02T17:05:55 < englishman> hmm, 34465A (6.5 digit) current precision is superior to 34470A (7.5 digit) and is less than half price
2021-03-02T17:06:05 < BrainDamage> but it's still there, silently loaded by programs
2021-03-02T17:11:08 < BrainDamage> I don't disagree that a program encompassing all exisiting standards would be bad, but I'm afraid they'll rush adoption just like they did with PA
2021-03-02T17:11:35 < ventyl> audio on linux is completely fucked up
2021-03-02T17:11:39 < ventyl> like, totally
2021-03-02T17:11:39 < BrainDamage> and given the random wtfs, it seems it's happening already here and there
2021-03-02T17:11:48 < ventyl> alsa, pulse, jack
2021-03-02T17:12:03 < BrainDamage> yes, but that's a consequence of bad design decisions from alsa 20 years ago
2021-03-02T17:12:13 < ventyl> FUBAR, each one works for some purpose and completely fails for all the remaining ones
2021-03-02T17:12:19 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: do you have any particular ideas about what ALSA does wrong in mind?
2021-03-02T17:12:21 < BrainDamage> combined with the policy of no floating point math in keernelspace
2021-03-02T17:12:39 < BrainDamage> yes, alsa uses fixed buffer sizes
2021-03-02T17:12:55 < BrainDamage> once initialized, they are there to stay
2021-03-02T17:13:13 < ventyl> that's not a problem. linux audio *mostly* works until you need something low latency
2021-03-02T17:13:16 < BrainDamage> you cannot change buffer size without reloading
2021-03-02T17:13:19 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: what's wrong about it?
2021-03-02T17:13:24 < ventyl> such as live mixing
2021-03-02T17:13:49 < R2COM> PaulFertser alsa is shit and linux audio is all shit
2021-03-02T17:13:57 < ventyl> there jack works, but jack is wannabe-pro-level, so it only can be loaded up on one device
2021-03-02T17:14:07 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: you cannot get it "wrong" and try again
2021-03-02T17:14:20 < ventyl> and it fails if pulse is already loaded
2021-03-02T17:14:51 < R2COM> i have soundblaster ae-7 audio card which wasnt supported up to kernel 5.10, but after kernel update and some fuckery i have sound now, but even then every now and then i can hear some "chirps" or other artifacts while say music is playing etc
2021-03-02T17:14:52 < ventyl> while pulse is new kid on the block and doesn't offer everything, which jack offers, vast majority of sound processing software doesn't give a fuck about pulse
2021-03-02T17:14:56 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: is default dmix configuration unsuitable or what? I do not remember ever needing to change the buffer size.
2021-03-02T17:14:59 < BrainDamage> that's because only one thing can access the hw, it's no surprise
2021-03-02T17:16:04 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: depends, if you're doing gaming, video conferences, multimedia playback, live music
2021-03-02T17:16:08 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I think I'm using plain ALSA since it appeared and I can't really remember anything anoying about it.
2021-03-02T17:16:16 < R2COM> linux on desktop is idiotic idea
2021-03-02T17:16:18 < BrainDamage> all those have different constraints
2021-03-02T17:16:26 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: for live music one needs JACK afaik.
2021-03-02T17:16:44 < ventyl> mostly
2021-03-02T17:16:45 < BrainDamage> no, you can use straight alsa
2021-03-02T17:16:50 < R2COM> while i was fuckin around configuring audio i saw shitloads of posts on the internet like "no sound after kernel update" LMAO
2021-03-02T17:16:58 < BrainDamage> but it's more annoying
2021-03-02T17:17:06 < R2COM> who the fuck would use an OS which breaks sound or other shit after update in 2021
2021-03-02T17:17:15 < BrainDamage> jacks biggest featture is that itt's a plugboard between programs
2021-03-02T17:17:16 < ventyl> R2COM: that's something which last happened to me in, like, 2004?
2021-03-02T17:17:37 < R2COM> threads about "sound breaking after kernel update" are as new as 2021
2021-03-02T17:17:44 < BrainDamage> also, I've been using jack on a semi-professional level since 2007 or so
2021-03-02T17:17:48 < R2COM> so no progress from 2004
2021-03-02T17:18:19 < BrainDamage> well, professional if you count I've been paid for live gigs
2021-03-02T17:18:24 < ventyl> well, I could probably find similar post for windows 10 too
2021-03-02T17:18:31 < R2COM> no you cant
2021-03-02T17:18:33 < R2COM> what a bullshit
2021-03-02T17:18:43 < ventyl> I know about at least one sound card which can only work in Win 10 only after you do a lot of hackery
2021-03-02T17:19:05 < R2COM> probably some retarded manufacturer who didnt design it well
2021-03-02T17:19:06 < BrainDamage> the difference is that for winows you blame the drivers and the manifactureer
2021-03-02T17:19:12 < BrainDamage> for linux you blame te kernel
2021-03-02T17:19:21 < ventyl> M-Audio. does it fit this box?
2021-03-02T17:19:21 < BrainDamage> even if in both case it's the drivers
2021-03-02T17:19:37 < R2COM> why kernel update messes driver?
2021-03-02T17:19:42 < R2COM> why its not incompatible with drivers
2021-03-02T17:19:44 < fenugrec> " Windows 10 KB4556799 Update Causing Audio Issues "
2021-03-02T17:19:50 < ventyl> :))
2021-03-02T17:20:02 < BrainDamage> because the drivers are part of the kernel
2021-03-02T17:20:12 < R2COM> that issue is probably was so small and subsequently got fixed quick that it didnt resonate worldwide
2021-03-02T17:20:12 < ventyl> R2COM: the answer usually (in both cases) is: shitty driver
2021-03-02T17:20:18 < R2COM> but linus and sound is a well known shit
2021-03-02T17:20:19 < BrainDamage> if you update the kernel, you're updating t drivers as well
2021-03-02T17:20:28 < R2COM> so please...dont tell me its *same* thing with win10
2021-03-02T17:21:35 < ventyl> well based on my 7 year long experience with Windows workstation, I would say that windows is the one here, which deserves piece-of-shit sticker
2021-03-02T17:22:01 < R2COM> sorry majority of people wont agree with you
2021-03-02T17:22:17 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: the oher issue is strictly with alsa userspace, you cannot without reinitializing the lib switch the stream to a different device
2021-03-02T17:22:22 < R2COM> maybe some poor ass linux elitists
2021-03-02T17:22:26 < R2COM> but thats about it
2021-03-02T17:23:04 < BrainDamage> and while in the past that was a niche feature, the advent of bluetooth headsets, headsets with builtin usb cards, etc, made it a common necessity
2021-03-02T17:23:34 < R2COM> if one needs linux for whatever fucking reason, relatively proper solution would be buying RHEL, since at least its supported by pros who managed to get that shit into proper form, but then again, very careful hardware consideration has to be done to make sure it runs on it
2021-03-02T17:23:49 < R2COM> and no hardware upgrades will be such that with next kernel upgrade it breaks
2021-03-02T17:23:57 < ventyl> uh oh
2021-03-02T17:24:12 < ventyl> either you live in some different universe, or you are making things up
2021-03-02T17:24:23 < ventyl> or you just came from like 2000s
2021-03-02T17:25:12 < R2COM> dude....
2021-03-02T17:25:14 < ventyl> generally you have to be quite unlucky to come accross some shit which won't run Linux out of box
2021-03-02T17:25:21 < R2COM> i just said example
2021-03-02T17:25:26 < R2COM> AZE-7 card doesnt work on it properly
2021-03-02T17:25:32 < R2COM> even after having it installed
2021-03-02T17:25:36 < R2COM> and getting sound
2021-03-02T17:25:43 < R2COM> no drivers for most high fidelity hardware
2021-03-02T17:25:50 < R2COM> cuz noone wants to support this shit OS
2021-03-02T17:25:54 < R2COM> how hard is it to understand?
2021-03-02T17:26:05 < R2COM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPUk1yNVeEI
2021-03-02T17:26:06 < R2COM> ^
2021-03-02T17:26:17 < R2COM> even faggot Linus Torvalds explained why its not succesful on desktop
2021-03-02T17:26:20 < R2COM> what else you need?
2021-03-02T17:26:34 < ventyl> remove past 18 years of my life probably
2021-03-02T17:26:37 < ventyl> or so
2021-03-02T17:26:50 < R2COM> yeah you  wasted your life if dealt with linux on desktop
2021-03-02T17:26:51 < R2COM> lol
2021-03-02T17:27:33 < ventyl> it by wasting my life you mean that it gets me my invoices paid, then ain't even mad
2021-03-02T17:28:43 < R2COM> doesnt sound like strong argument to me, hobos on social support also get their invoices paid
2021-03-02T17:32:01 < karlp> ventyl: meet arteoocommie, he's an expert.  be thankful he's around to tell  you the truth!
2021-03-02T17:32:54 < fenugrec> good ol IRC flamewars
2021-03-02T17:33:22 < qyx> oh I miss that
2021-03-02T17:33:24 -!- mxwk is now known as mawk
2021-03-02T17:33:29 < ventyl> karlp: is the word starting with a a nick, or some unknown-to-me property of person?
2021-03-02T17:34:40 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: oh, another thing I forgot as well, with modern cpus, you have a strong tradeoff between latency and power usage
2021-03-02T17:35:02 < mawk> R2COM: you tried linux on some bleeding edge explicitly unsupported hardware
2021-03-02T17:35:06 < mawk> you can't draw conclusions for that
2021-03-02T17:35:08 < BrainDamage> because small buffers wake the cpu often, and essentially trash the low power capabilities
2021-03-02T17:35:09 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: oh, switching the stream is indeed not possible, it wasn't essential 20 years ago and people were using esd and arts daemons anyway.
2021-03-02T17:35:13 < mawk> 100% of hardware I've installed linux on has worked out of the box
2021-03-02T17:35:42 < BrainDamage> that's why using jack for everyone is a bad idea
2021-03-02T17:35:43 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: you have strong points, as usual.
2021-03-02T17:35:52 < englishman> on all these instruments, the lowest current scales are zero offset verified during calibration, gains are never calibrated. sometimes even zero offsets aren't verified. wtf do you pay for then, to have these low current scales that are never verified
2021-03-02T17:35:53 < mawk> strong fists?
2021-03-02T17:36:09 < ventyl> BrainDamage: jack will also have a problem with switching between devices
2021-03-02T17:36:23 < BrainDamage> yup
2021-03-02T17:36:45 < ventyl> that's why there are three possible solutions all being generally useless
2021-03-02T17:36:48 < englishman> on the 34465A, the lowest scales aren't even calibrated if needed
2021-03-02T17:37:24 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I'm using bluealsa daemon on my arm netbook and it's a bit annoying that dmix can't be used with it. Not sure if it's alsa api or bluealsa implementation problem.
2021-03-02T17:38:07 < ventyl> ok, one thing which linux certainly is not yet capable of is doing my grocery shopping
2021-03-02T17:38:20 < R2COM> mawk desktop for personal use (mainly at home) are mostly to get bleeding edge new hardware for many people
2021-03-02T17:39:02 < R2COM> as a result linux is not friendly for desktop, for those people; for others, who prefer standard stuff and dont upgrade hardware more often than once maybe per 5 years its different
2021-03-02T17:39:06 < ventyl> R2COM: desktop for personal use nowadays is use whatever you can afford, because unless you do something professional or play AAA games, even 5-years-old rig will do the job
2021-03-02T17:40:23 < R2COM> linux fags are mostly poor people which is why they cant afford nice toys, and they are proud that linux can run on their old shitbox which belongs to trash can
2021-03-02T17:40:26 < ventyl> go thank Intel that it essentially stopped Moore's law
2021-03-02T17:41:01 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: bluealsa implements a software audio device, dmix wants a hw audio device, the api is different for ... reasons
2021-03-02T17:41:25 < ventyl> yeah, because bluez dropped ALSA support years ago
2021-03-02T17:41:27 < ventyl> native
2021-03-02T17:41:29 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yes, that I know ...
2021-03-02T17:41:31 < mawk> R2COM: you can have bleeding edge supported hardware as well
2021-03-02T17:41:33 < ventyl> so there has to be a bridge
2021-03-02T17:41:41 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: one ugly hack you could do is load a kernel loopback driver, so you can do dmix -> loopback -> bluealsa
2021-03-02T17:41:46 < mawk> but you have some fancy high end sound card whose manufacturer especially despises linux
2021-03-02T17:42:01 < R2COM> i use Valve Index VR, AE-7 audio, set of logitech gaming mouse, kbd which require special soft which i actually use. so it would be fucking nightmare get its support on linux, or honestly you aactually cant
2021-03-02T17:42:05 < mawk> you can just buy another one just as fancy and it will work
2021-03-02T17:42:20 < mawk> yes features targeted at windows work better on windowss
2021-03-02T17:42:30 < mawk> just as features targeted at linux work better on linux
2021-03-02T17:42:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I thought about it but didn't try yet, guess I am not pressed enough for the feature.
2021-03-02T17:42:34 < R2COM> well yeah, i can buy most common mainstream linux and have it working and try not to update faster than once a year lol
2021-03-02T17:42:48 < mawk> you can update whenever you want
2021-03-02T17:42:50 < R2COM> but no, my desktop will use latest shit cuz i like that latest shit
2021-03-02T17:42:58 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: probably there's something problematic about this way, as I haven't seen success reports on their issue tracking system.
2021-03-02T17:43:00 < R2COM> and manufactuers make drivers which perfectly run on win10
2021-03-02T17:43:05 < R2COM> so why would i torture myself
2021-03-02T17:43:17 < mawk> nobody is forcing you and your very special usecase to use linux
2021-03-02T17:43:22 < mawk> it's just not the most common usecase
2021-03-02T17:43:22 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: I use that to let jack use a bluetooth device as card, it took a bit fidling
2021-03-02T17:43:24 < Laurenceb> loll everyone has the audio lag in lunx team it seems
2021-03-02T17:43:28 < mawk> not me Laurenceb 
2021-03-02T17:43:29 < Laurenceb> yet there are no fixes
2021-03-02T17:43:31 < Laurenceb> weird
2021-03-02T17:43:32 < karlp> englishman: but muh digitssss
2021-03-02T17:43:36 < mawk> you want to see my pulse config or something?
2021-03-02T17:43:39 < R2COM> mawk its not special use case, most of people on desktop who buy that hardware are like that
2021-03-02T17:43:39 < Laurenceb> I can find a bazillion results
2021-03-02T17:43:45 < ventyl> and then you come to the real world and you find out, that your mates which know how to do Linux will roll over you in daily job tasks, because they simply know how to do stuff more effective
2021-03-02T17:43:50 < ventyl> :)
2021-03-02T17:43:52 < Laurenceb> mawk: maybe, it is basic stuff or something complex?
2021-03-02T17:43:54 < R2COM> which is reason why manufactures of that hardware mainly just support driversz runnin on win10
2021-03-02T17:43:55 < mawk> R2COM: most wealthy "pc gamer" tier people are like that yes
2021-03-02T17:44:03 < mawk> I didn't edit anything at all in the config Laurenceb , so I'd say basic stuff
2021-03-02T17:44:10 < Laurenceb> oh ok, nvm then
2021-03-02T17:44:11 < mawk> I use builtin pc speakers
2021-03-02T17:44:15 < Laurenceb> weird shit
2021-03-02T17:44:17 < englishman> karlp: its super weird, similar instruments like DMM6500 are verified and adjusted across all scales, but agilent ignores scales lower than 1mA
2021-03-02T17:44:19 < englishman> its bullshit
2021-03-02T17:44:23 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: good to know, thanks!
2021-03-02T17:44:41 < englishman> the specific reason to buy a 34465A is its 1uA scale
2021-03-02T17:44:51 < englishman> but it is only verified for zero point, and never adjusted
2021-03-02T17:45:35 < Laurenceb>  GpuWatchdog[1216829]: segfault at 0 ip 000055ef2a64bfc7 sp 00007fa4b4f8d510 error 6 in teams[55ef27553000+53c4000]
2021-03-02T17:45:37 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-03-02T17:46:06 < karlp> you mean, similar frrom other vnedors?
2021-03-02T17:46:42 < mawk> Laurenceb: you can make teams CPU only in the settings
2021-03-02T17:46:59 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-02T17:47:11 < Laurenceb> mawk: it only occasionally segfaults
2021-03-02T17:47:14 < Laurenceb> looks gpu related
2021-03-02T17:48:04 < Laurenceb> https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams/huge-lag-in-outgoing-sound-in-teams-for-linux/m-p/1098127
2021-03-02T17:51:30 < BrainDamage> does it have a web version?
2021-03-02T17:51:43 < BrainDamage> those tend to work better in my experience
2021-03-02T17:51:55 < BrainDamage> at least the browser video pipeline is very well tested
2021-03-02T17:52:58 < mawk> yes there's a web version
2021-03-02T17:53:15 < ventyl> even non-web version probably is web version
2021-03-02T17:53:20 < mawk> yes it's electron
2021-03-02T17:53:21 < ventyl> because it is electron app
2021-03-02T17:53:27 < mawk> but it's electron with gpu acceleration magic
2021-03-02T17:53:34 < mawk> but it evidently doesn't work as intended
2021-03-02T17:53:55 < Laurenceb> hmm ok I'll try that
2021-03-02T17:54:14 < mawk> try without gpu alsoo Laurenceb 
2021-03-02T17:54:16 < mawk> in the teams settings
2021-03-02T17:54:17 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-02T17:54:20 < mawk> also, try beta version of teams
2021-03-02T17:54:23 < mawk> it may maybe improve
2021-03-02T17:54:34 < ventyl> I don't know single microsoft electron app which ever worked at Linux
2021-03-02T17:54:41 < mawk> they do it on purpose
2021-03-02T17:54:47 < mawk> guaranteed
2021-03-02T17:54:54 < ventyl> even binary skype worked better in the age of native Qt binary than later when they ported it to electron
2021-03-02T17:56:22 < Laurenceb> yeah Qt ftw
2021-03-02T17:56:40 < Laurenceb> I wonder if browser based taskbar notifications actually work...
2021-03-02T17:56:46 < ventyl> yet teams doesn't work for me as a concept
2021-03-02T17:57:00 < ventyl> it is like "let's shovel all the shit we have into one single window"
2021-03-02T17:57:03 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-02T17:57:14 < Laurenceb> its like its trying to be an OS 
2021-03-02T17:57:30 < ventyl> Emacs been there two decades ago and failed
2021-03-02T17:57:47 < mawk> yes the notifications work Laurenceb 
2021-03-02T17:57:52 < mawk> just accept them in chrome
2021-03-02T17:57:55 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-02T17:58:00 < Laurenceb> only chrome is supported
2021-03-02T17:58:11 < Laurenceb> lol nothing will load properly on firefox
2021-03-02T17:58:17 < englishman> karlp: yeah, comparing DMMs
2021-03-02T17:58:21 < mawk> it's cartel between ms and google
2021-03-02T17:58:23 < mawk> to kill ff
2021-03-02T17:58:26 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-03-02T17:58:31 < englishman> Agilent has only zero offset verification below 1mA scales, no gain
2021-03-02T17:58:35 < englishman> Keithley has both offset and gain
2021-03-02T17:58:51 < englishman> why??????
2021-03-02T17:58:54 < Laurenceb> chrome eats all ur ram and spies on you
2021-03-02T17:59:23 < Laurenceb> just use zoom already 
2021-03-02T17:59:33 < Laurenceb> shit just works
2021-03-02T17:59:38 < fenugrec> maybe it's only meant to be used as a digital nulling meter
2021-03-02T18:00:00 < englishman> lol
2021-03-02T18:00:20 < englishman> digital singlemeter
2021-03-02T18:00:31 < englishman> is current zero? -> YES/NO
2021-03-02T18:00:50 < ventyl> I guess that chrome will end up as the new internet explorer
2021-03-02T18:01:31 < Laurenceb> fuck this I'll just keep with buggy Teams
2021-03-02T18:01:47 < fenugrec> englishman, more like "maybe 0" / "definitely not 0"
2021-03-02T18:01:52 < englishman> yeah
2021-03-02T18:02:10 < englishman> we're k=2 sure that current isn't zero
2021-03-02T18:02:11 < englishman> thanks
2021-03-02T18:02:15 < fenugrec> hahah
2021-03-02T18:02:35 < englishman> agilent did wtc
2021-03-02T18:08:57 < fenugrec> wonder what was the most accurate non-digital nulling meter... maybe something like the fluke 540
2021-03-02T18:11:41 < englishman> even the famous 3458A is only verified down to the 100uA scale
2021-03-02T18:27:29 < Laurenceb> keeek OPA2544 for muh strain gauge
2021-03-02T18:27:29 < Laurenceb> its gunna burn
2021-03-02T18:28:09 < Laurenceb> might be able to get 50VAC to drive the gauges from audio transformers
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2021-03-02T18:31:00 < bitmask> woo, pirani gauge has arrived, now I gotta make a digital readout
2021-03-02T18:32:44 < qyx> Laurenceb: any expertise in seismic measurements?
2021-03-02T18:33:11 < Laurenceb> only fun school projects
2021-03-02T18:33:29 < Laurenceb> I used peizo transducers with bricks on top lmao
2021-03-02T18:33:46 < Laurenceb> then mic inputs to triangular people walking along lol
2021-03-02T18:34:01 < Laurenceb> iirc sparkfun sell some nice seismometer sensors
2021-03-02T18:34:58 < qyx> http://www.azimadli.com/vibman/_aintroduction%20to%20machine%20vibration-50.png
2021-03-02T18:35:01 < qyx> is it that easy?
2021-03-02T18:35:11 < Laurenceb> its not too complex
2021-03-02T18:35:38 < qyx> I guess classis MEMS is not able to dig some useful signal out of the noise
2021-03-02T18:36:18 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-02T18:36:57 < bitmask> $525 for 10" diameter 12" height or $757 for 26" diameter, 27" height  pyrex bell jar
2021-03-02T18:38:35 < qyx> Laurenceb: you simply used this? https://zeppelindesignlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Piezo-Transducer-27mm.jpg
2021-03-02T18:38:53 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-02T18:39:00 < qyx> gross
2021-03-02T18:39:01 < Laurenceb> with a concrete block on top
2021-03-02T18:39:03 < Laurenceb> loll
2021-03-02T18:39:09 < qyx> k
2021-03-02T18:39:16 < qyx> and what about other axes?
2021-03-02T18:39:18 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaposi%27s_sarcoma
2021-03-02T18:39:27 < Laurenceb> wtf I want to go back to being an incel now
2021-03-02T18:39:28 < qyx> I guess it is also sensitive to side accelerations
2021-03-02T18:39:33 < Laurenceb> yeah a bit
2021-03-02T18:40:14 < qyx> now I am tempted to arduino up something
2021-03-02T18:40:17 < qyx> I have ~ 10 of those
2021-03-02T18:40:36 < qyx> I can glue them together in series
2021-03-02T18:40:41 < qyx> and a brick on top
2021-03-02T18:40:55 < qyx> crazy
2021-03-02T18:41:37 < BrainDamage> what's the sensitivity compared to an accelerometer?
2021-03-02T18:41:38 < Laurenceb> >even kissing a thot will give you fatal infectious cancer
2021-03-02T18:41:42 < Laurenceb> incel 4 lief
2021-03-02T18:42:04 < BrainDamage> that'd give you direction from just 1 sensor
2021-03-02T18:42:06 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: I never tested but it could detect people walking >20m away
2021-03-02T18:42:16 < Laurenceb> and lorries about 500m away
2021-03-02T18:42:32 < qyx> common MEMS accel is noisy as shit
2021-03-02T18:42:38 < BrainDamage> I had some shitty ic probe that had strong contact potential
2021-03-02T18:42:39 < qyx> even a low noise one
2021-03-02T18:42:54 < BrainDamage> I could tell you the tram schedule few hundreds of m away
2021-03-02T18:43:06 < qyx> yeah trams
2021-03-02T18:43:11 < qyx> I can detect trams with mems
2021-03-02T18:43:18 < qyx> but not seismic noise
2021-03-02T18:43:53 < qyx> i mean, not seismic noise made by trams :P
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2021-03-02T19:03:37 < bitmask> damn, where do I get a cheap 24v 200mA wallwart
2021-03-02T19:04:18 < bitmask> 20-36v*
2021-03-02T19:13:59 < t4nk_freenode> ravage through your pile of them, and tie them together.
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2021-03-02T19:15:18 < bitmask> I dont think i have anything over 18v
2021-03-02T19:15:41 < t4nk_freenode> tie them together ;)
2021-03-02T19:16:03 < t4nk_freenode> I tied 2 atx supplies together for 24v..
2021-03-02T19:19:10 < bitmask> are they not referenced to gnd?
2021-03-02T19:19:47 < t4nk_freenode> only one of them, the other is disconnected from it
2021-03-02T19:20:55 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip174-74-227-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-02T19:22:28 < Steffanx> Haxx0r stylw
2021-03-02T19:22:29 < Steffanx> E
2021-03-02T19:24:22 < mawk> listen to 3 steps ahead Steffanx 
2021-03-02T19:24:48 < englishman> I did that once with some server power supplies, the floating one died quite quickly, not sure why
2021-03-02T19:25:23 < bitmask> the thing its powering is expensive, im gonna do it right
2021-03-02T19:25:44 < mawk> what's wrong with floating supply
2021-03-02T19:25:51 < mawk> floating battery ok that may be weird
2021-03-02T19:25:52 < bitmask> although im hacking the gauge for it, gonna use what I have on hand, stm32f030 will be fine
2021-03-02T19:25:55 < mawk> but this is wall powered
2021-03-02T19:26:01 < t4nk_freenode> then why ask for a cheap solution in the first place, bitmask  :)
2021-03-02T19:26:35 < bitmask> im not really looking for cheap, just something less than like a 5A supply, can't find anything less than that on ebay
2021-03-02T19:29:16 < mawk> why
2021-03-02T19:29:20 < mawk> if it can do more it can do less
2021-03-02T19:29:38 < bitmask> id rather it be smaller
2021-03-02T19:29:46 < mawk> ah
2021-03-02T19:29:51 < bitmask> those are bricks, i want one thats part of the ac plug
2021-03-02T19:31:25 < bitmask> oh nice, the f030 has a 12 bit adc compared to atmegas 10 bit
2021-03-02T19:31:58 < bitmask> all it needs to do is convert an adc reading to a vacuum pressure
2021-03-02T19:32:11 < bitmask> so adc + lookup table
2021-03-02T19:33:17 < qyx> bitmask: tme
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2021-03-02T19:33:38 < bitmask> what is
2021-03-02T19:33:39 < t4nk_freenode> old printer psu
2021-03-02T19:33:52 < t4nk_freenode> probably does 24v or more
2021-03-02T19:34:26 < bitmask> none on hand, maybe i should check my wallwarts before I waste more time, Im pretty sure I dont have anything 20V+
2021-03-02T19:36:48 < bitmask> nuttin'
2021-03-02T19:37:12 < qyx> bitmask: check tme.eu, they have many for ~cheap, even with voltages >24 V
2021-03-02T19:37:20 < bitmask> ohhh
2021-03-02T19:37:31 < bitmask> I was hoping to stay local (US)
2021-03-02T19:37:42 < bitmask> I guess I'm not in that much of a rush
2021-03-02T19:37:49 < qyx> oh I though you are in .uk
2021-03-02T19:37:52 < bitmask> nope
2021-03-02T19:38:00 < bitmask> MURICA
2021-03-02T19:44:49 < bitmask> sorry, i felt like Laurenceb for a sec, I feel dirty
2021-03-02T19:45:45 < t4nk_freenode> you are buddy, you are!
2021-03-02T19:46:45 < bitmask> :P
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2021-03-02T20:10:33 < t4nk_freenode> ordered a bunch of spare tips for my soldering stations
2021-03-02T20:10:46 < jpa-> you have multiple?
2021-03-02T20:11:08 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, one Velleman, and one hiuyawyayw orsth ;)
2021-03-02T20:11:28 < t4nk_freenode> the chinese one also has a hot air gun
2021-03-02T20:11:42 < t4nk_freenode> but I'm a bit disappointed in it
2021-03-02T20:12:16 < t4nk_freenode> and my trusty velleman goes haywire when I set the temperature, not sure what's going on
2021-03-02T20:12:21 < bitmask> is there any reason to use an op amp vs resistor divider for adc input range adjustment
2021-03-02T20:12:34 < bitmask> ive never really used an opamp before
2021-03-02T20:13:21 < t4nk_freenode> isn't an opamp for when the signal is just too low, or has too small a range
2021-03-02T20:13:51 < bitmask>  dunno, thought you could use it as an amplifier for setting the gain to adjust the range?
2021-03-02T20:14:12 < bitmask> i'll just use resistors
2021-03-02T20:15:12 < t4nk_freenode> I used an opamp when I tried to read a cheapo dmm with a pic ... signal was too low
2021-03-02T20:18:46 < t4nk_freenode> nehow, with my tips on the way.. for my not_so_great station... I was thinking about buying a handle from aliexpress
2021-03-02T20:19:44 < t4nk_freenode> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H0121aef875af4d23a8d4891cf096f306u.jpg
2021-03-02T20:20:14 < t4nk_freenode> but I'm not sure it will be worth it
2021-03-02T20:20:36 < t4nk_freenode> there's 3 versions available, 60, 90 and 110W
2021-03-02T20:20:48 < t4nk_freenode> thinking about the 110W version
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2021-03-02T20:22:36 < t4nk_freenode> anyone ever heard of 'CXG' for a brand?
2021-03-02T20:25:29 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: have you considered TS80P or Pinecil instead?
2021-03-02T20:26:00 < t4nk_freenode> no I haven't, ... because I never heard of them ;) I'll have a look
2021-03-02T20:26:32 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: esp. if you already have a nice Type C power bank
2021-03-02T20:26:59 < zyp> hmm, maybe I should get one, been meaning to
2021-03-02T20:27:00 < PaulFertser> And it's related to the channel topic as TS80P is using stm32 and Pinecil is gd103v or something similar.
2021-03-02T20:27:22 < zyp> first time I hear of pinecil, how does it compare?
2021-03-02T20:27:25 < t4nk_freenode> tsp.. that's a usb device??
2021-03-02T20:27:37 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: kinda
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2021-03-02T20:27:48 < Laurenceb68> fucking lunix
2021-03-02T20:27:49 < zyp> it's powered by USB PD, yes
2021-03-02T20:28:04 < Laurenceb68> anyone know how to restart cinnamon from command line
2021-03-02T20:28:09 < zyp> which means I can bring it on travels and power it from e.g. my laptop adapter
2021-03-02T20:28:11 < Laurenceb68> without losing my open windows?
2021-03-02T20:28:43 < PaulFertser> zyp: it's supposed to be a new development incorporating experience of hundreds of miniware users, and they have Ralim writing firmware for it right from the early prototypes.
2021-03-02T20:29:02 < zyp> doesn't tell me much :)
2021-03-02T20:29:11 < zyp> how does it compare feature wise?
2021-03-02T20:29:35 < PaulFertser> zyp: it has both barrel jack and Type C, it has RISC-V controller.
2021-03-02T20:29:43 < zyp> ah, gd32v
2021-03-02T20:30:17 < PaulFertser> It's using TS100-compatible tips, not TS80.
2021-03-02T20:30:50 < zyp> right
2021-03-02T20:31:03 < zyp> TS80 tips are smaller/shorter, right?
2021-03-02T20:31:06 < PaulFertser> So to get more power you need higher voltage.
2021-03-02T20:31:13 < PaulFertser> I think they're of similar size but different resistance.
2021-03-02T20:31:21 < Laurenceb68> pkill -HUP -f "cinnamon --replace"
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2021-03-02T20:31:34 < Laurenceb68> ^will that attack the process to my terminal session?
2021-03-02T20:32:31 < PaulFertser> Ralim is the guy who wrote proper sane free software firmware for TS100/TS80*
2021-03-02T20:32:36 < t4nk_freenode> that ts80p seems nice, but also quite 'expensive'
2021-03-02T20:32:38 < Laurenceb68> wait wtf
2021-03-02T20:32:47 < Laurenceb68> that command just tried to kill current session
2021-03-02T20:33:29 < t4nk_freenode> think I'll open up my Velleman tonight, see if there is some blown cap orsth
2021-03-02T20:33:51 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: pinecil is cheaper
2021-03-02T20:34:19 < t4nk_freenode> couldn't find pinecil on aliexpress or amazon :|
2021-03-02T20:34:41 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: available from the manufacturer directly (when the new batch is produced)
2021-03-02T20:35:48 < ventyl> PaulFertser: have you hands on experience with it?
2021-03-02T20:35:55 < PaulFertser> ventyl: only with TS100.
2021-03-02T20:36:08 < ventyl> my old stuff is slowly dying and I was seriously considering buying Pinecil
2021-03-02T20:36:44 < zyp> TS80P looks better, apart from it being lower power
2021-03-02T20:37:47 < PaulFertser> Better than Pinecil? Why?
2021-03-02T20:38:17 < t4nk_freenode> so... my stations are around 50W... these CXG's range from 60-110W ... would the higher the power be the better?
2021-03-02T20:38:22 < ventyl> last batch sold out pretty fast
2021-03-02T20:38:40 < zyp> PaulFertser, looks more comfortable
2021-03-02T20:38:48 < ventyl> people are even putting units together from spare parts
2021-03-02T20:39:03 < t4nk_freenode> when I was practicing on some bga... my chinese iron just got stuck, there was no melting my way out of it
2021-03-02T20:39:27 < PaulFertser> zyp: hm, the ergonomics of Pinecil should certainly be no worse than Miniware's. Nobody complained about it so far afaict.
2021-03-02T20:39:52 < zyp> I mean, I haven't held either, just going by pics here :)
2021-03-02T20:40:12 < zyp> tips appear to be slightly shorter too, which IMO is a benefit
2021-03-02T20:40:55 < t4nk_freenode> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001895239759.html contemplating this one, the 110W
2021-03-02T20:41:17 < fenugrec> ts100 does feel "too long", I'm used to oldschool hakko 936
2021-03-02T20:41:24 < bitmask> why aint there none red oleds
2021-03-02T20:41:48 < zyp> get an rgb one and ignore the green/blue channels?
2021-03-02T20:42:07 < fenugrec> but ts80 needs USB PD magic IIRC, so I went with the 100 instead
2021-03-02T20:42:08 < bitmask> just curious
2021-03-02T20:42:57 < zyp> fenugrec, specs says it does both PD and QC
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2021-03-02T20:43:43 < zyp> so any modern high power phone charger will probably work, although maybe not at full power
2021-03-02T20:43:46 < fenugrec> zyp, in both cases, that requires some USB finagling, doesn't it ? i.e. can't hook it to a car battery / etc
2021-03-02T20:44:01 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-02T20:45:18 < zyp> for me that's not an issue, I'd want it for travel/portable use
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2021-03-02T20:45:25 < fenugrec> right, that's what I meant - I wanted this as a field iron. Interestingly, the 100 can't safely take more than IIRC 20V input, despite being spec'ed higher. Some diode or mosfet on the input is maxed out
2021-03-02T20:45:52 < zyp> well, same
2021-03-02T20:46:18 < zyp> I just figure it's easier to bring a USB powerbank rather than a car battery :)
2021-03-02T20:46:37 < ventyl> literally
2021-03-02T20:46:42 < zyp> and if not then I'm always bringing the laptop charger with the laptop anyway
2021-03-02T20:47:06 < ventyl> unless you drive a land rover. those guys tend to have two batteries onboard
2021-03-02T20:47:26 < ventyl> it turns out that two car batteries can serve as an emergency LR driver's welder
2021-03-02T20:47:26 < fenugrec> how does your laptop charger give you USB ... or do you mean via a laptop
2021-03-02T20:47:39 < zyp> no
2021-03-02T20:47:50 < zyp> I mean I have a modern laptop that comes with a USB PD charger
2021-03-02T20:48:56 < fenugrec> aye, I think mine also does now. Never checked
2021-03-02T20:51:43 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: no, TS100 works on 24 V reliably. You're mixing it with Pinecil which _probably_ has some a bit underspec'd diode.
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2021-03-02T20:54:00 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, BZT52C20 fed from (Vin-0.6) via 150R. A bit extreme at 450mW
2021-03-02T20:54:25 < fenugrec> tiny SOD-123 with minimal copper under
2021-03-02T20:55:15 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: is that in original device? I'm sure I saw many people saying they have it at 24 V all the time.
2021-03-02T20:55:48 < fenugrec> Not 100% sure. Just looked at the "ts100 2.46 sch"
2021-03-02T20:56:30 < PaulFertser> I know it's kinda wrong way to argue but you have to take facts into account too ;)
2021-03-02T20:57:24 < PaulFertser> ventyl: do LR owners also carry some welding rods and the mask usually? :)
2021-03-02T20:58:04 < PaulFertser> Imagine someone who bought a LR4 doing welding in the field :)
2021-03-02T20:58:05 < fenugrec> actually I was originally checking to see if I could run it from 24-28V. But my Pdis calculation ignores current drawn by the RT7272 so that helps
2021-03-02T20:58:39 < fenugrec> gah, arc welding straight from a SLA battery... don't need a mask, just close your eyes !
2021-03-02T21:00:11 < ventyl> PaulFertser: for welding rods - quite often
2021-03-02T21:01:20 < BrainDamage> fenugrec: my TS100 runs on 24 regularly
2021-03-02T21:02:05 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: btw, do you know if your TS100 is not a very old version you can attach SWD via the USB port for debugging?
2021-03-02T21:02:48 < PaulFertser> And for reflashing the stupid bootloader with a real DFU one?
2021-03-02T21:02:53 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, how can I tell, connect to pc then dfu-util -l ?
2021-03-02T21:03:05 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: no, I mean literally SWD
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2021-03-02T21:03:38 < fenugrec> uh like they routed SWD+SWC to D+/D- ??
2021-03-02T21:04:04 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/blob/2052f308b09f7357d91e7aba80ffbda490fc6769/Documentation/Flashing.md search for "dapboot"
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2021-03-02T21:07:58 < englishman> fenugrec: ts100 takes 26V just fine
2021-03-02T21:08:13 < fenugrec> I have "2.58" printed on the PCB
2021-03-02T21:08:30 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: on the MCU riser?
2021-03-02T21:08:34 < PaulFertser> Or the main PCB?
2021-03-02T21:08:38 < fenugrec> main
2021-03-02T21:08:46 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: that's not exactly relevant ;)
2021-03-02T21:09:16 < fenugrec> hard to read on the riswer. I'm guessing 2.58 or 2.59, the bottom silk is trimmed a bit
2021-03-02T21:09:55 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: you can tell by looking if swd lines are shorted to USB or not.
2021-03-02T21:10:09 < fenugrec> but... do I want to know ?
2021-03-02T21:10:38 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: do you want to get rid of the stupid MSD imitating bootloader or not?
2021-03-02T21:11:19 < fenugrec> (your page says "2.51 have D+ shorted to SWD etc", mine is much more recent I guess (2-3 y.o. max))
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2021-03-02T21:11:37 < fenugrec> not in particular, I haven't been aggravated enough by the stock firmware (yet)
2021-03-02T21:12:09 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: oh, you're not using Ralim's? Well, not sure what to say, for me using vendor firmware just wasn't an option, so I didn't bother booting it even once :)
2021-03-02T21:13:15 < fenugrec> it's not my "daily driver". The times I've used it, I turn it on, press buttons 2-3 times to get to somewhere around 300-320C depending, do the thing then unplug. What does Ralim's provide ?
2021-03-02T21:13:37 < fenugrec> This thing ain't going to dethrone my 936 anytime soon
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2021-03-02T21:18:05 < fenugrec> (yea it's detected as a MSC device... can't reflash thru that, I assume)
2021-03-02T21:18:58 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I have no idea what vendor firmware is capable of :) But I can tell you I implemented some "smart" power limiting in Ralim's so that even my underpowered "netbook" psu can be used reliably.
2021-03-02T21:19:21 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: you can reflash through that if you're lucky.
2021-03-02T21:20:56 < fenugrec> "DFU 3.46" if I hold a button when booting. Good to know, I'll know what to do when/ if it gets annoying
2021-03-02T21:32:19 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: yes, I got rid of this "DFU" as soon as I could.
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2021-03-02T22:37:52 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/buyAx5V.jpg
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2021-03-02T23:49:27 < t4nk_freenode> postnl is a criminal organisation.
2021-03-02T23:59:42 < mawk> why
--- Day changed Wed Mar 03 2021
2021-03-03T00:00:36 < Steffanx> They still have mawk's package in custody 
2021-03-03T00:00:43 < t4nk_freenode> incompetent delivery, deliberately holding back packages... failing to deliver on time where other companies have no problems doing so
2021-03-03T00:00:54 < mawk> that's the effect of privatization
2021-03-03T00:00:57 < mawk> you wished for it
2021-03-03T00:01:05 < mawk> by not beheading markie
2021-03-03T00:01:10 < t4nk_freenode> heh
2021-03-03T00:01:16 < Steffanx> I never have this with postnl. What you described is DHL parcel, t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T00:01:54 < t4nk_freenode> I used to be pretty satisfied with them, Steffanx ... but recently they're just messing up
2021-03-03T00:02:14 < ventyl> if recently means 2020, then no surprise Sherlock
2021-03-03T00:02:17 < Steffanx> Not here
2021-03-03T00:02:39 < Steffanx> Pretty much always on time 
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2021-03-03T00:02:47 < t4nk_freenode> recently is not 2020, wannabe-Watson
2021-03-03T00:02:48 < ventyl> these days everything which has engine and reasonable transport capacity makes deliveries
2021-03-03T00:03:25 < t4nk_freenode> past year the delivery was pretty ok
2021-03-03T00:04:07 < t4nk_freenode> despite the incredibly humongous deadly destructive killer monstrous whatever
2021-03-03T00:06:06 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, mawk ... I wonder when sth like that will happen
2021-03-03T00:06:12 < Steffanx> Just relaaaaax t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T00:06:24 < t4nk_freenode> heheh... *sigh* .. Iknow Steffanx ...
2021-03-03T00:06:34 < ventyl> TBH only excessively negative experience I have is with local branch of Gebruder Weiss
2021-03-03T00:06:57 < ventyl> they managed to completely damage refrigerator I ordered online
2021-03-03T00:07:00 < ventyl> twice
2021-03-03T00:07:24 < Steffanx> All German shipping companies suck 😛
2021-03-03T00:07:31 < mawk> we should nuke them
2021-03-03T00:07:49 < t4nk_freenode> amazon.de is pretty kewl with its deliveries methinks
2021-03-03T00:08:02 < t4nk_freenode> is that dpd orsth
2021-03-03T00:08:09 < Steffanx> They use DHL parcel, they suck
2021-03-03T00:08:44 < t4nk_freenode> heh, they're always on time, they even send you an sms if they're within 10 mins from you
2021-03-03T00:09:10 < t4nk_freenode> only problem I have with them is that they use juvenile impatient delivery...kids
2021-03-03T00:09:14 < Steffanx> DHL parcel is what used to be selektvracht (not sure if that used to be a German or Dutch company)
2021-03-03T00:10:06 < Steffanx> Hmm, only the real DHL does SMS messages I think (Hi PaulFertser \o/ )
2021-03-03T00:10:49 < t4nk_freenode> butyeah, I ordered an hdmi cable and a dp cable..... hdmi was delivered today, not dp. If it would have been the other way round, I wouldn't have ranted so much :)
2021-03-03T00:12:14 < t4nk_freenode> oh, I also ordered some _genuine_ blue pills!
2021-03-03T00:12:50 < Steffanx> ⚫ is what you need
2021-03-03T00:13:01 < t4nk_freenode> white dot?
2021-03-03T00:13:08 < Steffanx> Black.
2021-03-03T00:14:11 < qyx> white.
2021-03-03T00:14:43 < t4nk_freenode> that's supposed to be an improved blue pill?
2021-03-03T00:15:12 < ventyl> white dot is racist
2021-03-03T00:15:35 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2021-03-03T00:16:53 < t4nk_freenode> ah, I had my info from a corrupt website...
2021-03-03T00:17:18 < t4nk_freenode> so with f401 or 411 on board... yeah, that sounds more like it
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2021-03-03T00:41:32 < bitmask> man, KF16/KF25 fittings are so sexy
2021-03-03T00:41:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/eplqRWb.jpg
2021-03-03T00:43:56 < t4nk_freenode> I ordered 4 pcs f411, Steffanx ;)
2021-03-03T00:48:28 < Steffanx> Yeah the f411 is nice
2021-03-03T00:53:07 < t4nk_freenode> curious to know how fast i/o will be
2021-03-03T00:54:51 < t4nk_freenode> probably 80MHz at most
2021-03-03T00:57:14 < t4nk_freenode> mmm those 128k ram vs 20k is 'impressive'
2021-03-03T00:58:27 < t4nk_freenode> (fast I/Os up to 100 MHz ... nice :) )
2021-03-03T01:01:57 < vegii> I kinda want a charge pump now
2021-03-03T01:02:09 < vegii> with fixed 3.3v output
2021-03-03T01:02:24 < vegii> thought they'd be more common than it seems
2021-03-03T01:03:03 < ventyl> 128kB RAM
2021-03-03T01:03:09  * ventyl still deploys AVRs here and there
2021-03-03T01:03:30 < vegii> it's like peeing in the pool at this point
2021-03-03T01:03:38 < qyx> sadomasochism still occurs here and there
2021-03-03T01:08:53 < ventyl> I guess I won't go into deeper detail, otherwise I could end up being a sacrifice dropped into Etna
2021-03-03T01:10:06 < t4nk_freenode> that's it buddy... you're coming with me, right now!
2021-03-03T01:10:07 < vegii> 5V is handy dandy sometimes
2021-03-03T01:13:02 < ventyl> I ended up running my last AVRs on 5V just after I realized that my ghetto style flasher is 5V only
2021-03-03T01:13:45 < vegii> say it's a "COM port" flasher
2021-03-03T01:14:37 < ventyl> no, that's what I used to flash this one
2021-03-03T01:14:50 < ventyl> actually, it was parallel rather than serial
2021-03-03T01:24:16 < zyp> bitmask, are you building a meth lab or something?
2021-03-03T01:26:02 < bitmask> sputter chamber
2021-03-03T01:28:25 < zyp> can we put Laurenceb in there when he's sputtering bullshit?
2021-03-03T01:28:47 < qyx> :>
2021-03-03T01:29:12 < ventyl> vegii: btw, torturing myself on AVR was quite helpful
2021-03-03T01:30:34 < bitmask> hehe
2021-03-03T01:31:58 < bitmask> hmm what should I work on now
2021-03-03T01:32:08 < bitmask> I guess back to stm
2021-03-03T01:33:16 < vegii> make one with risc-v
2021-03-03T01:34:43 < ventyl> I added another task and this board looks like it is doing something very serious
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2021-03-03T01:34:58 < ventyl> like routing 10GBE or something
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2021-03-03T01:41:20 < vegii> maybe I should do a 4-layer board for once
2021-03-03T01:45:23 < t4nk_freenode> craft it with your bare hands!
2021-03-03T01:46:20 < vegii> fingernails?
2021-03-03T01:46:56 < t4nk_freenode> don't mock this, this is serious :b
2021-03-03T01:51:46 < Steffanx> AVR isn't THAT bad 
2021-03-03T01:52:16 < Steffanx> Maybe a little expensive, but that also changed since microchip made some new AVRs
2021-03-03T01:52:51 < Steffanx> "And at least you van buy them", someone would say now
2021-03-03T01:53:19 < ventyl> newer AVRs are mostly shitty compared to old ones
2021-03-03T01:53:24 < t4nk_freenode> I remember being exactly as mad about the whole 'avr' and 'arduino' nonsense as I was about postnl just now
2021-03-03T01:53:34 < ventyl> like new tinys are not that tiny anymore and new megas are not so mega anymore
2021-03-03T01:53:47  * t4nk_freenode is mad often.
2021-03-03T01:53:55 < Steffanx> And what about xmeguuh
2021-03-03T01:54:15 < Steffanx> Yes, relax a little t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T01:54:26 < ventyl> I will burn through my stock of megas and then probably bury that platform for good
2021-03-03T01:54:34 < Steffanx> Will you vote madman wilders t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T01:54:52 < Steffanx> At least you have a stock. Good luck stocking stm32 atm
2021-03-03T01:54:59 < t4nk_freenode> I don't think I'll be voting at all :|
2021-03-03T01:55:26 < Steffanx> Can I vote for you? One more for the baudet
2021-03-03T01:55:49 < ventyl> i have also some stock of stm32s
2021-03-03T01:55:49 < t4nk_freenode> besides.. each and every party is corrupt to the bone and in on it
2021-03-03T01:57:10 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-03-03T01:57:22 < Steffanx> SGP it is then, t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T01:57:34 < t4nk_freenode> I'm also not convinced there even will be elections
2021-03-03T01:58:03 < Steffanx> Not corrupt. They just live in a fantasy world
2021-03-03T01:58:28 < Steffanx> But they have principles at least
2021-03-03T01:59:38 < t4nk_freenode> youknow what I'd find funny? if noone would show up to vote 
2021-03-03T02:00:24 < t4nk_freenode> think I only voted twice in my life btw
2021-03-03T02:01:06 < t4nk_freenode> baudet ey... lol ;)
2021-03-03T02:01:18 < vegii> is it chipmageddon
2021-03-03T02:01:32 < bitmask> NOOOOOOO
2021-03-03T02:01:52 < t4nk_freenode> just one look into those lovely treacherous eyes :)
2021-03-03T02:02:10 < t4nk_freenode> though his friend hiddema.. lol he's even worse
2021-03-03T02:02:14 < vegii> https://theamphour.com/530-living-through-chipageddon/
2021-03-03T02:02:22 < vegii> thanks for the reminder
2021-03-03T02:03:33 < bitmask> hmmm, wonder if I'll be able to sputter ITO eventually
2021-03-03T02:03:58 < bitmask> make sum lcds
2021-03-03T02:05:11 < bitmask> any good stm32 in tssop besides f030
2021-03-03T02:05:28 < vegii> bitmask: make heated glasses that don't fog up
2021-03-03T02:05:32 < qyx> g0
2021-03-03T02:05:37 < qyx> bitmask: ^
2021-03-03T02:05:43 < qyx> even in soic
2021-03-03T02:05:50 < bitmask> qyx ty
2021-03-03T02:05:56 < bitmask> vegii i dont wear glasses
2021-03-03T02:06:07 < bitmask> my eyes work :P
2021-03-03T02:06:21 < bitmask> for now at least
2021-03-03T02:06:25 < vegii> sunglasses while skiing?
2021-03-03T02:06:31 < t4nk_freenode> liol, yeah, mine did too, once :)
2021-03-03T02:06:52 < bitmask> t4nk_freenode how long did you make it?
2021-03-03T02:08:04 < t4nk_freenode> coincidentally... I was walking around town one day, and stumbled into an optician's. without realizing, I was sat under a poster depicting age vs sight
2021-03-03T02:08:26 < t4nk_freenode> at  around 40yrs of age there was a sharp decline
2021-03-03T02:08:33 < bitmask> uh oh
2021-03-03T02:08:41 < bitmask> (im about to turn 37)
2021-03-03T02:09:09 < t4nk_freenode> But... I reckon this is a thing that creeps up on you; you're prolly already half blind without knowing
2021-03-03T02:09:29 < t4nk_freenode> one eye usually goes first
2021-03-03T02:09:38 < bitmask> thats like going bald, once you notice your hair is thinner you've already lost at least half
2021-03-03T02:10:20 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, sth like that... though I'm not bald, it's definitely less than it used to be
2021-03-03T02:10:32 < bitmask> ohhh I get the room to myself tomorrow, I'm gonna do some more mirror silvering tests
2021-03-03T02:10:46 < bitmask> same here
2021-03-03T02:11:56 < bitmask> I'm new to altium newer than version 18, why did they add a [1] before my schematic file
2021-03-03T02:13:07 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Vy7nAiv.png
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2021-03-03T02:47:37 < bitmask> damn, ams1117 max is 15V
2021-03-03T02:47:45 < bitmask> what do I use
2021-03-03T02:47:56 < bitmask> what do I have
2021-03-03T03:01:17 < Mangy_Dog> what voltage you dropping from?
2021-03-03T03:01:22 < Mangy_Dog> buck converter?
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2021-03-03T03:15:00 < bitmask> yea its gotta be a buck
2021-03-03T03:15:02 < bitmask> 24V
2021-03-03T03:15:16 < bitmask> only need like 200mA but not gonna be able to linear it
2021-03-03T03:15:22 < bitmask> "only"
2021-03-03T03:18:55 < Laurenceb> <zyp> can we put Laurenceb in there when he's sputtering bullshit?
2021-03-03T03:19:05 < Laurenceb> wut when was I sputtering bullshit
2021-03-03T03:19:18 < Laurenceb> also ur banned from reddit for hate speech
2021-03-03T03:19:27 < Laurenceb> and bullying
2021-03-03T03:20:00  * t4nk_freenode puts Laurenceb inside the sputter box already: THIS!
2021-03-03T03:20:26  * Laurenceb declares this is internet relay reddit
2021-03-03T03:20:35  * Laurenceb bans everyone
2021-03-03T03:20:44 < Laurenceb> Dunning-Kruger effect chat
2021-03-03T03:21:45 < t4nk_freenode> hehehehe ;) that's a remarkable feat of projection 
2021-03-03T03:25:28 < Laurenceb> dude have you seen reddit?
2021-03-03T03:25:42 < t4nk_freenode> not much of it thb
2021-03-03T03:25:44 < Laurenceb> its worse than faceberg at this point
2021-03-03T03:26:31 < t4nk_freenode> and these days I won't even load faceberg if it points to sth I'm really interested in!
2021-03-03T03:26:35 -!- Mangy_Dog [~Mangy_Dog@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-03T03:26:40 < englishman> inline gifs in comments now
2021-03-03T03:26:43 < englishman> reddit is more like 9gag
2021-03-03T03:26:46 < englishman> full circle.
2021-03-03T03:27:51 < vegii> the datasheet for stm32L011 is quite... incomprehensive/confusing
2021-03-03T03:28:20 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-03-03T03:28:38 < Laurenceb> ur gunna have to explain why m9
2021-03-03T03:28:40 < vegii> cool, PB9 is the BOOT0 meaning it's used to select the boot mode on startup... but should I pull it high or low to boot from flash?
2021-03-03T03:29:08 < Laurenceb> so.. read the fucking datahseet
2021-03-03T03:29:25 < Laurenceb> or just search for BOOT pins stm32
2021-03-03T03:29:25 < vegii> didn't find the info inside the datasheet
2021-03-03T03:29:37 < Laurenceb> ok maybe its in another document...
2021-03-03T03:29:43 < Laurenceb> but aiui its standard on stm32
2021-03-03T03:29:45 < vegii> found a mention of an appnote that's about their boot from ram bootloader
2021-03-03T03:29:51 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, there are probably several different manuals
2021-03-03T03:30:02 < Laurenceb> just search for it, I forget but its a standard table
2021-03-03T03:30:24 < Laurenceb> zzz
2021-03-03T03:30:27  * Laurenceb zzz
2021-03-03T03:30:29 < t4nk_freenode> reset states is possibly what you want
2021-03-03T03:30:51 < t4nk_freenode> but I'm no stm-buff
2021-03-03T03:31:14 < englishman> boot0 mode stuff is in an2606
2021-03-03T03:31:51 < vegii> yea, I'm trying to find an answer in an2606
2021-03-03T03:31:58 < englishman> what do you want to know
2021-03-03T03:32:01 < englishman> it's pattern 6
2021-03-03T03:32:12 < vegii> why is it pattern6
2021-03-03T03:33:26 < englishman> it says so at the top of the l01xx section
2021-03-03T03:33:59 < vegii> thank you kind sir
2021-03-03T03:34:59 < englishman> np
2021-03-03T03:36:10 < vegii> it would appear that... I can either pull it up or down, because the nBoot0_SW inverts its effect anyway
2021-03-03T03:36:16 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@250.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-03T03:37:44 < vegii> tho idk which one is the default that everyone uses
2021-03-03T03:38:48 < t4nk_freenode> couldn't you jusy try it out and see what happens?
2021-03-03T03:39:15 < vegii> gotta design the board before I can test it
2021-03-03T03:39:28 < englishman> also check out the Reference Manual
2021-03-03T03:39:37 < englishman> section for boot configuration
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2021-03-03T03:42:02 < turnip420> Is this a reasonable example to follow? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/f1/stm32-h103/usb_cdcacm/cdcacm.c
2021-03-03T03:42:10 < turnip420> I just wanna do a simple VSP
2021-03-03T03:45:37 < bitmask> man, why does this gauge need 20-36V
2021-03-03T03:51:24 < qyx> turnip420: do you have F1?
2021-03-03T03:52:12 -!- turnip420 [~machinehu@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42fd] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1]
2021-03-03T03:52:23 < qyx> probably he doesn't
2021-03-03T04:08:23 < englishman> should have used timecube
2021-03-03T04:11:21 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/vagfg610bok61.jpg
2021-03-03T04:30:02 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: phr3ak, AndrevS
2021-03-03T04:32:13 < fenugrec> vegii, look at the default value of the option bytes (RM, chapter "option byte") for nBOOTx etc
2021-03-03T04:32:18 < qyx> https://www.ti.com/product/LMG3522R030-Q1
2021-03-03T04:32:20 < qyx> such fet
2021-03-03T04:32:20 < qyx> wow
2021-03-03T04:32:47 < fenugrec> is it... "sic"k
2021-03-03T04:33:14 < fenugrec> huh, GaN. Also $$
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2021-03-03T04:33:33 < vegii> woah, can buy max 5
2021-03-03T04:33:41 < vegii> chipageddon
2021-03-03T04:33:52 < qyx> it is great for my next 400V project
2021-03-03T04:34:04 < vegii> it's toilet paper all over again
2021-03-03T04:34:05 < fenugrec> ah but integrated driver & shit, that's nice of them. Deffo worth a few $
2021-03-03T04:34:14 < vegii> empty shelves in radio shacks
2021-03-03T04:34:30 < qyx> wait what, top side cooled
2021-03-03T04:34:32 < qyx> how so
2021-03-03T04:34:43 -!- sync [~sync@sync-hv.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-03-03T04:35:07 < qyx> separates electrical and thermal paths for lowest
2021-03-03T04:35:08 < qyx> power loop inductance
2021-03-03T04:35:10 < fenugrec> to clamp an alu heatsink. Probably better than going through a pcb
2021-03-03T04:35:10 < qyx> noice
2021-03-03T04:35:41 < qyx> as if it even gets warm
2021-03-03T04:36:03 < fenugrec> heh
2021-03-03T04:36:04 < qyx> 3 W static dissipation for 4 kW
2021-03-03T04:36:37 -!- grummund [~unknown@unaffiliated/grummund] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-03-03T04:37:33 < aandrew> that's quite the part
2021-03-03T04:37:42 < qyx> also ideal diode mode
2021-03-03T04:38:02 < qyx> you can make your 4 quadrant without frying low side mosfets
2021-03-03T04:38:14 < aandrew> I left the power world when IGBTs were king, but I'd heard rumblings about new mosfet designs which were waaaaaaaaaay more efficient (and the IGBTs were considerably more efficient than the GTOs they replaced)
2021-03-03T04:38:38 < aandrew> I hear that a lot of the drives these days are all mosfet based, not IGBT
2021-03-03T04:38:53 < qyx> i plan to play with some distributed DC grid systems and stuff
2021-03-03T04:39:05 < qyx> with bidir battery converters
2021-03-03T04:39:15 < qyx> this looks like exact match for that kind of app
2021-03-03T04:39:31 < fenugrec> SiC mosfets are supposed to overlap into typical IGBT territory, but this GaN is new to me
2021-03-03T04:41:13 < fenugrec> not a direct comparison (just a discrete fet), but still nice, https://www.onsemi.com/products/wide-bandgap/silicon-carbide-sic-mosfets/ntbg015n065sc1
2021-03-03T04:41:46 < aandrew> yeah my laptop charger is GaN based, seems pretty decent
2021-03-03T04:42:07 < aandrew> 650V isn't nearly high enough except for the low end of low voltage AC
2021-03-03T04:42:30 < aandrew> we were using 1600V IGBTs for 600V applications
2021-03-03T04:42:35 < aandrew> 1800 if we could find 'em
2021-03-03T04:42:44 < qyx> they say it is okish for 400 V
2021-03-03T04:42:46 < aandrew> semikron is one supplier
2021-03-03T04:42:50 < fenugrec> ok, how about 1.7kV https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/mosfet/silicon-carbide/discretes/imbf170r650m1/
2021-03-03T04:43:04 < aandrew> we'd always spec out 2.5x 
2021-03-03T04:43:12 < aandrew> ok fenugrec calm down :-)
2021-03-03T04:43:25 < fenugrec> heheh, you'd think I have shares in sic
2021-03-03T04:43:34 < aandrew> that's a nice device
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2021-03-03T04:43:59 < fenugrec> wonder if sic will need a comparable "2.5x derate for peace of mind" 
2021-03-03T04:44:13 < aandrew> our medium voltage stacks (soft starters, they didn't do medium voltage VFDs until after I left) were 3 1600V devices in series, optically fired
2021-03-03T04:44:42 < fenugrec> must be fun to probe & troubleshoot gate drivers in there
2021-03-03T04:45:10 < aandrew> page 9 kind of shows it: https://benshaw.com/downloads/catalogs/Medium-Voltage-Products-Catalog.pdf
2021-03-03T04:45:16 < aandrew> newer design now of course but same idea
2021-03-03T04:46:30 < aandrew> page 49 is a better pic
2021-03-03T04:48:47 < aandrew> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/BENSHAW-ADVANCED-CONTROL-DRIVE-RSD6-60-480-C-USED/222085719998 was my design
2021-03-03T04:49:22 < aandrew> PIC16F877 in its last incarnation
2021-03-03T04:50:06 < vegii> qyx: I went fuck it and decided that I need a power switch ic and a p fet
2021-03-03T04:50:16 < fenugrec> nice
2021-03-03T04:50:25 < vegii> or two switches to reduce bom
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2021-03-03T04:58:15 < qyx> you can use that 650 V GaN
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2021-03-03T04:58:39 < qyx> hm, you would need 4 CR2032 in series in that case
2021-03-03T04:58:45 < qyx> 12 V is required to drive it
2021-03-03T05:06:49 < vegii> yea, I'd need many cr2032's to need that fet
2021-03-03T05:08:21 < vegii> I guess a regular p fet might have more leakage than this SY6280 switch
2021-03-03T05:08:46 < vegii> especially since I'd have to hold a gpio in high state
2021-03-03T05:09:20 < vegii> and it lets me do silly things
2021-03-03T05:10:04 < vegii> like set the current limit to something ridiculously low 
2021-03-03T05:10:14 < vegii> let's see if that limits the inrush current
2021-03-03T05:10:35 < vegii> to capacitors once it's switched on
2021-03-03T05:11:06 < vegii> cause that would be a nice touch
2021-03-03T05:11:29 < vegii> oh wait, this is a cr2032
2021-03-03T05:11:47 < vegii> inrush current is already limited by battery being shit
2021-03-03T05:12:38 < vegii> might as well pull the pin to ground and have it divide by zero
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2021-03-03T06:54:38 < vegii> time to sleep https://i.imgur.com/7fPNUX1.png
2021-03-03T06:56:03 < vegii> I‘m confused by the 12.5pf on that resonator and its 2pin package
2021-03-03T07:05:43 < R2COM> sup
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2021-03-03T09:03:48 < jly> is steffan dead?
2021-03-03T09:18:10 < Steffanx> Yess
2021-03-03T09:18:43 < jpa-> oh no
2021-03-03T09:18:56 < t4nk_freenode> is it too soon to badmouth him?
2021-03-03T09:19:07 < jpa-> he was my favourite character in this drama
2021-03-03T09:21:07 < Steffanx> His ghost will keep haunting you, jpa- 
2021-03-03T09:22:39 < Steffanx> And spoiler alert: jly will open a portal and steffan will return. But will he be the same after that?... questions...
2021-03-03T09:23:04 < jly> are you fucking italian prick
2021-03-03T09:23:20 < jly> did you rob some blind person?
2021-03-03T09:41:17 < antto> o hai therr mr jly
2021-03-03T09:43:52 < jly> hi sir
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2021-03-03T09:51:36 < jly> ty
2021-03-03T10:01:47 < Steffanx> Is crt still around?
2021-03-03T10:13:52 -!- qyx [~qyx@gw2.krtko.org] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
2021-03-03T10:24:54 < mawk> no Steffanx we mainly use lcd nowadays
2021-03-03T10:25:39 < Steffanx> No, the true gamer prefers CRT
2021-03-03T10:27:12 < mawk> all the true gamers are dead
2021-03-03T10:27:26 < mawk> it's only kids playing fortnite on their smartphones nowadays
2021-03-03T10:28:35 < Steffanx> No, jly is a true gamer
2021-03-03T10:28:47 < Steffanx> He was alive an hour ago
2021-03-03T10:32:19 < mawk> maybe he's dead now
2021-03-03T10:32:32 < mawk> the century killed him
2021-03-03T10:35:06 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
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2021-03-03T11:26:44 < Steffanx> Mawk, time to go to the front door..
2021-03-03T11:26:55 < Steffanx> Ohno not yet 
2021-03-03T11:27:31 < mawk> tonight maybe
2021-03-03T11:27:36 < mawk> they never pass n the morning
2021-03-03T11:27:40 < mawk> except when it's weekend and I'm sleeping
2021-03-03T11:27:48 < mawk> it's a conspiracy
2021-03-03T11:28:24 < Steffanx> Postnl says 12.45-15.15 
2021-03-03T11:28:37 < mawk> a
2021-03-03T11:28:38 < Steffanx> I trust postnl. Unlike the t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-03T11:28:38 < mouseghost> what did you buy?
2021-03-03T11:28:40 < mouseghost> a schlong?
2021-03-03T11:28:54 < mawk> a schmilblick mouseghost 
2021-03-03T11:28:55 < Steffanx> He didn't buy anything. Cheapskate.
2021-03-03T11:28:58 < mawk> lol
2021-03-03T11:29:17 < Steffanx> I sent him my older riglol, mouseghost . 
2021-03-03T11:29:26 < mouseghost> Steffanx, u his daddy
2021-03-03T11:29:38 < jpa-> heh, embeddedartistry libc seems to need only _putchar() and no other syscall definitions
2021-03-03T11:30:07 < Steffanx> No, im just nice sometimes. Why keep something hidden away on  a shelf when someone else can use it
2021-03-03T11:30:14 < mouseghost> true that
2021-03-03T11:30:24 < mouseghost> Steffanx, thats very nice of you
2021-03-03T11:31:09 < mawk> weird jpa- 
2021-03-03T11:31:15 < mawk> I would think it just requires write()
2021-03-03T11:31:22 < mawk> with just putchar you have to make your own buffering
2021-03-03T11:31:34 < zyp> not if all you've got is a uart
2021-03-03T11:31:36 < mawk> whereas with write() you can just trust that it buffered for you and write whole lines at a time
2021-03-03T11:31:58 < mawk> well even with a uart it's presumably faster to write whole blocks at a time
2021-03-03T11:32:03 < mawk> less context switches, can use dma, etc
2021-03-03T11:32:30 < mawk> also write is a syscall, it would make sense to only provide it and not putchar which is a libc primitive
2021-03-03T11:33:39 < jpa-> no built-in buffering in ea-libc
2021-03-03T11:33:53 < jpa-> which is mostly a plusside IMO
2021-03-03T11:34:01 < mouseghost> i have like 3 buffers in total uh
2021-03-03T11:34:01 < jpa-> if i want buffering, i'll snprintf() to a buffer
2021-03-03T11:34:34 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-03T11:34:45 < jpa-> (_putchar() i'll just hook up to SWO, which works better without buffering anyway)
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2021-03-03T12:07:00 < karlp> vegii: I think you may hav ebeen looking at the "datasheet" by itself, when you need to use it in conjuction with the "reference manual"
2021-03-03T12:07:13 < karlp> if you're used to avr style big single document, that will be your biggest change.
2021-03-03T12:07:19 < karlp> you must have both documents for work on stm32.
2021-03-03T12:09:16 < ventyl> learned this the hard way
2021-03-03T12:10:21 < ventyl> in some corner cases even Cortex-M programming manual may be needed
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2021-03-03T12:13:13 < karlp> I don't think I've ever personally needed that one,
2021-03-03T12:13:24 < karlp> but I've definitely looked i teh armv7m Arch ref man a lot.
2021-03-03T12:13:31 < karlp> though mostly only because I also work on tooling.
2021-03-03T12:16:44 < zyp> it's the same
2021-03-03T12:17:22 < zyp> the PMxxxx document is copypaste from the arm docs
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2021-03-03T13:46:17 < Steffanx> At least its not PIC where even peripherals can/are spread over multiple documents. And some of them are DAMN HARD to find
2021-03-03T13:47:00 < Steffanx> I mean, one reference manual and specific peripheral information can be found in peripheral specific documents. Thats so annoying 
2021-03-03T13:53:01 < ventyl> I can't understand how PIC could be around for so long
2021-03-03T13:53:12 < ventyl> for long time it didn't even have usable C compiler
2021-03-03T13:58:29 < Laurenceb> I'm zoooommming
2021-03-03T13:58:37 < Laurenceb> talking to cat man
2021-03-03T13:58:56 < Laurenceb> audio is literally >meow >meow >meeeee >meow
2021-03-03T13:59:11 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of this
2021-03-03T13:59:50 < Laurenceb> video feed is also mostly cats
2021-03-03T14:00:55 < ventyl> my video tends to be upside down
2021-03-03T14:01:12 < ventyl> someone fucked something up and one day it simply happened
2021-03-03T14:01:21 < ventyl> so I am usually like "greetings from Australia"
2021-03-03T14:02:27 < Steffanx> I think it was qyx who did it
2021-03-03T14:23:53 < qyx> waht
2021-03-03T15:05:21 < vegii> when I have to use msteams, I give it OBS output as a virtual webcam
2021-03-03T15:06:01 < vegii> so I can do greenscreen and also share my screen
2021-03-03T15:07:06 < vegii> because of course screen sharing is not a feature in msteams for linux
2021-03-03T15:07:25 < zyp> sure it is
2021-03-03T15:07:39 < zyp> I used it last week
2021-03-03T15:07:43 < vegii> and I think they've also never added it in skype for linux
2021-03-03T15:07:58 < zyp> oh, wait, I used the web browser version
2021-03-03T15:08:07 < zyp> standalone version didn't want to cooperate
2021-03-03T15:08:31 < vegii> web browser version afaik only works for direct calls, not conferences
2021-03-03T15:09:28 < zyp> direct call as in only two participants?
2021-03-03T15:09:33 < vegii> yes
2021-03-03T15:09:36 < zyp> we were four or something
2021-03-03T15:10:01 < vegii> well, I sure tried at least twice
2021-03-03T15:10:20 < zyp> idk, worked for me last thursday
2021-03-03T15:10:22 < vegii> maybe there's some settings that need to be unfucked for that to work
2021-03-03T15:10:35 < vegii> as in conference call settings
2021-03-03T15:10:45 < vegii> to allow joining from the browser version
2021-03-03T15:10:58 < vegii> zyp: did you use google chrome?\
2021-03-03T15:11:00 < zyp> I was even a bit surprised everything just worked, first conference call I ever did on linux
2021-03-03T15:11:05 < zyp> yes
2021-03-03T15:11:12 < vegii> not chromium?
2021-03-03T15:11:19 < zyp> not chromium
2021-03-03T15:11:55 < vegii> well, so at least they've added that
2021-03-03T15:12:22 < vegii> I prefer Jitsi anyway
2021-03-03T15:12:35 < vegii> so much easier and you can selfhost it if you like
2021-03-03T15:12:46 < vegii> and opensource
2021-03-03T15:13:28 < vegii> plus from what I've heard the quality is vastly superior, but I have shitty connection
2021-03-03T15:13:53 < zyp> I'm generally being invited to meetings, not hosting them
2021-03-03T15:16:38 < Laurenceb> holy sheeet
2021-03-03T15:16:49 < Laurenceb> >all this tiem I had chrome running in background
2021-03-03T15:16:55 < Laurenceb> thats where muh ram went
2021-03-03T15:17:42 < Laurenceb> Teams seems to work in Chrome, just breaks audio if you try to change the config mid chat
2021-03-03T15:17:55 < Laurenceb> and only direct hardware audio works ok
2021-03-03T15:18:05 < Laurenceb> I have learnt this the hard way...
2021-03-03T15:21:01 < Laurenceb> first case of javashit actually sort of working
2021-03-03T15:21:04 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2021-03-03T15:21:17 < Laurenceb> >desktop app is electron and it crashes constantly
2021-03-03T15:21:21 < Laurenceb> heh
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2021-03-03T15:46:03 < BrainDamage> fun thing, electron is based off chrome
2021-03-03T15:46:15 < BrainDamage> and anyway, that's why I told you to use the webapp
2021-03-03T15:46:20 < BrainDamage> at least browsers work
2021-03-03T15:46:37 < karlp> on my older laptop, teams linux native worked, teams brwoser didn't.
2021-03-03T15:46:42 < karlp> current laptop both work.
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2021-03-03T17:55:07 < fenugrec> anyone here tried  ESP32 in "long range"  mode ?
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2021-03-03T17:58:08 < skz81> fenugrec, nope, but I saw a video from a guy that was using that to control a fixed wing drone... The guy reach 30+km before come back to home
2021-03-03T17:58:23 < skz81> quite impressive
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2021-03-03T17:58:43 < fenugrec> wonder if one AP can manage 10-20 "LR" nodes though... not clear from the doc
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2021-03-03T19:25:23 < englishman> Elon Musk, now worth $200 billion, is one of the most expensive substances, at $2.4 million per gram.
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2021-03-03T19:33:02 < mawk> lol
2021-03-03T19:38:14 < englishman> i dont get how this calibration place can claim 29pA of uncertainty @100nA
2021-03-03T19:38:24 < englishman> absolute accuracy of a 3458A is an order of magnitude higher
2021-03-03T19:38:33 < englishman> even the transfer accuracy is around double
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2021-03-03T19:40:13 < bitmask> herro
2021-03-03T19:41:17 < mawk> hi
2021-03-03T19:41:48 < bitmask> anyone make a cloud chamber before?
2021-03-03T19:42:13 < bitmask> im in a science fair kinda mood
2021-03-03T19:42:15 < bitmask> :P
2021-03-03T19:52:01 < jpa-> englishman: hmm? isn't +-29pA of 100nA +-290ppm which seems quite high inaccuracy?
2021-03-03T19:57:27 < englishman> direct current measurement is ~430ppm, measurement with a 1k shunt is... actually around 300ppm but still not 290 and doesnt include the 30ppm of the shunt
2021-03-03T20:01:10 < mawk> are you sure you can just add up the uncertainties like this englishman ?
2021-03-03T20:01:16 < mawk> I mean you can, but it's not the most precise way
2021-03-03T20:01:35 < mawk> I remember from physics classes we had to do partial derivative magic to compute precisely how the uncertainties compound
2021-03-03T20:02:07 < englishman> yes they sum like vectors, but i'm just looking at relative accuracy of the instrument
2021-03-03T20:03:22 < jpa-> double the shunt to 2k and get 150ppm? ;)
2021-03-03T20:03:57 < englishman> unfortunately the lowest scale on a 3458a is 100mV
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2021-03-03T22:07:46 < Steffanx> retwatter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOQkk3ojNfM
2021-03-03T22:10:52 < Steffanx> T-4 i heard. just retweeting.
2021-03-03T22:11:27 < ventyl> nope, more like T-30
2021-03-03T22:12:01 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDEgFsefrGw nope...
2021-03-03T22:12:13 < Steffanx> more like T-2:15
2021-03-03T22:13:07 < Steffanx> you're welcome vegii 
2021-03-03T22:13:09 < Steffanx> *ventyl 
2021-03-03T22:13:19 < englishman> ventanyl
2021-03-03T22:13:34 < ventyl> weirdh
2021-03-03T22:13:47 < ventyl> nsf shows something completely  different
2021-03-03T22:14:01 < Steffanx> refresh?
2021-03-03T22:14:16 < Steffanx> because it does not
2021-03-03T22:14:37 < Steffanx> yeaaah :)
2021-03-03T22:14:56 < ventyl> maybe i rewinded back
2021-03-03T22:14:59 < ventyl> well, short test :)
2021-03-03T22:15:06 < Steffanx> you missed nothing.
2021-03-03T22:15:19 < bitmask> abort abort
2021-03-03T22:15:44 < ventyl> i managed to switch to spx stream
2021-03-03T22:22:25 < Laurenceb> is there an stm32 with 12bit adc with differential inputs?
2021-03-03T22:25:46 < catphish> i think the l476 i usually use has that
2021-03-03T22:25:52 < catphish> but i could be wrong
2021-03-03T22:26:16 < englishman> yeah a bunch
2021-03-03T22:26:29 < englishman> f303 for example
2021-03-03T22:26:57 < englishman> none of them go negative tho, if that's what you're looking for
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2021-03-03T22:40:55 < fenugrec> Hmm, suppose I'm on F0 and doing continuous DMA (u32 from flash to CRC, which is on AHB too), I know the arbitration supposedly ensures "at least half of the system bus bandwidth.". Are there conditions where this 50% of bus time could be insufficient and slow down the CPU ? Depends on what CPU is doing of course; worst-case would probably be if it's just jumping everywhere and fetching from flash
2021-03-03T22:40:57 < fenugrec> every instruction
2021-03-03T22:41:42 < fenugrec> (yes, I have read AN4187, but it doesn't quite answer)
2021-03-03T22:49:12 < ventyl> rare sighting. release build with -O2 and -flto runs. debug build with -O0 doesn't
2021-03-03T22:50:04 < fenugrec> if O0 (without lto) doesn't run... I have my money on UB
2021-03-03T22:50:50 < ventyl> ub?
2021-03-03T22:51:10 < fenugrec> undefined behavior
2021-03-03T22:52:43 < zyp> fenugrec, I sure hope so
2021-03-03T22:53:16 < zyp> fenugrec, consider that the flash is slower than sysclk and F0 doesn't have ART
2021-03-03T22:54:20 < zyp> I'd expect the cpu to more or less saturate the flash bandwidth normally, which implies that running a big DMA job in parallel should cause a measurable impact
2021-03-03T22:54:35 < zyp> unless the cpu is busy waiting for other stuff most of the time
2021-03-03T22:54:51 < fenugrec> zyp, at lower clocks with no waitstates, wouldnt f_flash = syscllk ?
2021-03-03T22:55:21 < fenugrec> ah ok I misread, you're saying "yes, will impact CPU throughput" ?
2021-03-03T22:55:42 < zyp> I expect so
2021-03-03T22:56:03 < zyp> system would be pretty inefficient if not
2021-03-03T22:56:06 < fenugrec> but, with waitstates, it would probably make less difference
2021-03-03T22:56:17 < zyp> no, more
2021-03-03T22:56:39 < fenugrec> hm, if cpu is waiting for flash, it's preventing other accesses to AHB ?
2021-03-03T22:57:08 < zyp> more waitstates -> less flash throughput (relative to sysclk) -> more competition for the flash
2021-03-03T22:57:19 < zyp> hmm, that's also a point
2021-03-03T22:57:23 < zyp> since m0 is von neumann
2021-03-03T22:57:28 < fenugrec> duh of course
2021-03-03T22:58:08 < ventyl> fenugrec: considering it being RTOS kick-off function, I'd expect more something like stack frame vs. no stack frame
2021-03-03T22:58:13 < ventyl> this place is quite fragile
2021-03-03T23:00:16 < zyp> fenugrec, I'm not an expert on AHB, but I believe all accesses complete in order
2021-03-03T23:00:27 < fenugrec> there's no such thing as setting a "DMA duty cycle" of course, but I'm not profiling anytying yet, so not going to worry for now
2021-03-03T23:00:38 < zyp> as far as I understand, that's the big difference between AXI and AHB
2021-03-03T23:01:05 < fenugrec> zyp, that's a bit beyond my reading too
2021-03-03T23:02:00 < zyp> M3 and up would let other accesses go on even when the I bus is stalled
2021-03-03T23:02:13 < zyp> and M7 got AXI
2021-03-03T23:02:15 < fenugrec> ah
2021-03-03T23:02:57 < fenugrec> well I'm definitely stuck on F0 for now... only impact for me atm would be to maybe affect ISR jitter by one flash access... negligible
2021-03-03T23:03:07 < zyp> on the other hand, m0 is mostly thumb1, so it'd mostly fetch two instructions at a time
2021-03-03T23:04:37 < zyp> yeah, I don't think this would be an issue unless you're doing something silly requiring strict instruction timings
2021-03-03T23:05:07 < fenugrec> or if I was doing a lot of computing, but I think I'm still mostly waiting (no measurements)
2021-03-03T23:05:23 < fenugrec> about that, I've never done any profiling on F0... how much pain should I expect
2021-03-03T23:05:35 < zyp> idk :)
2021-03-03T23:06:25 < fenugrec> I'm well aware ITM is not available on M0
2021-03-03T23:07:48 < zyp> I'd rather pick a more capable part than F0 if I had doubts if F0 had enough performance
2021-03-03T23:10:57 < karlp> +1
2021-03-03T23:11:05 < karlp> especially given the prices.
2021-03-03T23:11:25 < karlp> you've got to have slim margins for the product bom to be swungheavily there
2021-03-03T23:12:26 < fenugrec> all true, but when I spun the pcb last year f042 looked "good enough" and I liked the qfp32 smallness
2021-03-03T23:13:53 < zyp> pff, qfp32 isn't any smaller than qfp48
2021-03-03T23:14:00 < zyp> same size, just different pitch
2021-03-03T23:14:57 < fenugrec> I'm not in trouble "yet"... flash 75% full, mostly done with the heavy stuff and nothing optimized (i.e. still have full printf in there etc).
2021-03-03T23:15:51 < karlp> yeah, qfp32 in bigger pitch just seemed like it might help with some shitty processes yields.
2021-03-03T23:15:56 < karlp> but otheriwse, who cares?
2021-03-03T23:16:28 < fenugrec> I can hardly argue otherwise. I had F042s on hand, didn't need many pins, picked the one with most flash, and moved on
2021-03-03T23:16:40 < fenugrec> this is still a v1 proto
2021-03-03T23:16:59 < zyp> I think the g0 parts in qfn28 looks great for size
2021-03-03T23:17:17 < fenugrec> I thought G0 didn't have CAN ?
2021-03-03T23:17:25 < zyp> probably not
2021-03-03T23:18:05 < zyp> oh, they do
2021-03-03T23:18:11 < qyx> not much options left then
2021-03-03T23:18:17 < qyx> yeah?
2021-03-03T23:18:51 < zyp> hmm
2021-03-03T23:19:10 < fenugrec> why is it so hard to find the st product selector
2021-03-03T23:19:11 < zyp> overview claims they do, but I don't see it in product selector
2021-03-03T23:19:42 < zyp> but then again overview has also been saying they had USB for a long time, and only now recently have g0 parts with usb showed up
2021-03-03T23:19:52 < zyp> (and the latter are not even available in qfn28)
2021-03-03T23:22:57 < fenugrec> so RM0444 for g0*1 lists FDCAN, but its not clear which parts have that
2021-03-03T23:24:17 < zyp> ah, g0b1 does
2021-03-03T23:24:23 < zyp> i.e. the ones that also have USB
2021-03-03T23:24:31 < zyp> page 55 in RM0444
2021-03-03T23:26:11 < fenugrec> ah, G0B1 and G0C1
2021-03-03T23:26:17 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-03T23:26:21 < zyp> c is b+crypto
2021-03-03T23:26:28 < zyp> like the usual pattern
2021-03-03T23:27:30 < zyp> shame smallest g0b1 is qfn32 though
2021-03-03T23:28:27 < fenugrec> everything is out of stock anyway P )
2021-03-03T23:28:29 < Laurenceb> derp, I want F3
2021-03-03T23:28:32 < zyp> not because it's so much larger than qfn28, but also because it has the exposed pad in the middle that qfn28 lacks
2021-03-03T23:28:39 < Laurenceb> I forgot F3 ADC is so good
2021-03-03T23:28:43 < zyp> fenugrec, plenty of smaller g0 in stock
2021-03-03T23:28:51 < Laurenceb> >high speed 12 bit with differential inputs
2021-03-03T23:29:31 < Laurenceb> wait a sec
2021-03-03T23:29:39 < fenugrec> g0b1 seems pretty scarce
2021-03-03T23:29:48 < Laurenceb> two inst amps, one into ADC+, one ADC-, with + and - inputs swapped
2021-03-03T23:30:02 < Laurenceb> now EMIRR doesnt even matter if the inst amps are matched
2021-03-03T23:30:39 < zyp> fenugrec, even jlcpcb got plenty of g031 qfn28 in stock for about $nothing: https://jlcpcb.com/parts/componentSearch?searchTxt=stm32g0
2021-03-03T23:32:14 < fenugrec> yeah yeah but g031 != can
2021-03-03T23:32:35 < zyp> g0b1 seems pretty new
2021-03-03T23:33:11 < zyp> but the distributors seems to have stock, which package do you want?
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2021-03-03T23:33:41 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Mangy_Dog, rmaw, aidenhjj, kiki_lamb, freakuency
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2021-03-03T23:34:32 < zyp> https://no.mouser.com/Search/Refine?N=4294764375&Keyword=511-STM32G0B1KET6 couple hundred of the qfp32 if you like
2021-03-03T23:34:50 -!- Netsplit over, joins: freakuency, rmaw, aidenhjj, Mangy_Dog, kiki_lamb
2021-03-03T23:35:53 < fenugrec> ah, on local mouser they only have g0b1-VET6 in stock
2021-03-03T23:36:12 < fenugrec> anyway I need to finish the proto before I shop parts for proto-v2 P )
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 04 2021
2021-03-04T00:05:24 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, how can you! pic documentation is nice!
2021-03-04T00:06:07 -!- yukam [~yukam@79-139-128-154.dynamic.spd-mgts.ru] has joined ##stm32
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2021-03-04T00:14:26 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-03-04T00:21:05 < englishman> mouser still hasnt shipped some shit i ordered friday
2021-03-04T00:21:09 < englishman> they are dead to me
2021-03-04T00:21:21 < englishman> i dont care whats going on in tennessee
2021-03-04T00:21:42 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2021-03-04T00:24:11 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-03-04T00:24:30 < fenugrec> englishman, time to forgive newark
2021-03-04T00:24:31 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, the dead-to-me-companies are piling up around here too ;)
2021-03-04T00:25:14 < t4nk_freenode> I'm gonna check the mail box in a bit... but if not.... then... postnl will be DEAD to me, again!
2021-03-04T00:26:20 < englishman> newark is ok but they never have what i want...
2021-03-04T00:28:22 < vegii> what IDEs do you use?
2021-03-04T00:28:29 < vegii> (with debugging)
2021-03-04T00:28:41 < zyp> none
2021-03-04T00:28:42 < englishman> Code Composer Studio
2021-03-04T00:28:47 < zyp> haha
2021-03-04T00:28:51 < zyp> seriously?
2021-03-04T00:29:09 < englishman> it's pretty good actually
2021-03-04T00:29:11 < englishman> except for gcc
2021-03-04T00:29:21 < zyp> you get gcc?
2021-03-04T00:29:24 < englishman> ti gcc
2021-03-04T00:29:41 < zyp> the ti compiler I used didn't resemble gcc at all
2021-03-04T00:29:53 < englishman> for msp430?
2021-03-04T00:29:54 < vegii> texas instruments gnu c compiler?
2021-03-04T00:30:09 < englishman> vegii it's mostly msp430 here :/
2021-03-04T00:30:19 < englishman> for stm32 keil is pretty nice
2021-03-04T00:30:37 < englishman> a lot of poeple in here are using opensores tools but they are always trying to make things work
2021-03-04T00:30:41 < fenugrec> vegii, cubeide right now - not enjoying it but I'm getting stuff done
2021-03-04T00:30:53 < englishman> keil, just works
2021-03-04T00:30:59 < englishman> also cubeide from what i've heard
2021-03-04T00:31:04 < zyp> englishman, no, rm4
2021-03-04T00:31:36 < zyp> vegii, I use vscode as an editor and if I cared about integrating a debugger it can do that too
2021-03-04T00:31:42 < vegii> wtf is this keil
2021-03-04T00:31:42 < zyp> but I haven't bothered trying that
2021-03-04T00:33:00 < vegii> I'd like to move on from Arduino to a flavor of PlatformIO with debugging
2021-03-04T00:33:25 < zyp> I usually work with optimized code that doesn't make much sense stepping through in a source view, and I don't really see a point in having the debugger integrated with the editor if I'm not gonna step through source lines
2021-03-04T00:33:30 < vegii> but ugh, vscode is microsoft
2021-03-04T00:33:47 < zyp> why does that matter?
2021-03-04T00:34:10 < vegii> is it free software?
2021-03-04T00:34:22 < zyp> vscode with the vim plugin is so far the best vim gui I've ever used
2021-03-04T00:34:33 < zyp> I actually think it is
2021-03-04T00:34:47 < zyp> https://github.com/microsoft/vscode
2021-03-04T00:35:08 < vegii> apparently source code is under VIM license, compiled binaries are proprietary... odd
2021-03-04T00:35:18 < vegii> *MIT license
2021-03-04T00:35:22 < vegii> brainfert
2021-03-04T00:35:36 < fenugrec> I like having the ide debugger to poke around peripheral regs and view structs. Way faster for me, not sure how others do it
2021-03-04T00:35:49 < qyx> oh platformio, you have to talk to jan- then
2021-03-04T00:35:55 < zyp> fenugrec, I do that in cli gdb
2021-03-04T00:35:59 < vegii> fenugrec: what do you use?
2021-03-04T00:36:12 < Steffanx> Are you sure jan- used that in the end, qyx?
2021-03-04T00:36:38 < vegii> fenugrec: was that cubeide?
2021-03-04T00:37:08 < zyp> I'm sometimes using ozone too, but I mostly feel cli gdb is more efficient
2021-03-04T00:37:32 < oz4ga> ozone is kewl
2021-03-04T00:37:34 < zyp> typing out what I want tends to be faster than hunting for it in a gui
2021-03-04T00:37:58 < zyp> then again I've spent more time with cli gdb so I'm more used to that
2021-03-04T00:37:58 < fenugrec> zyp, yes, I know how to do it in gdb, but I always waste time figuring out " p *(SOMETHING_TIype def *)(garbage)->ASDF" etc...
2021-03-04T00:38:03 < oz4ga> yeah. There is no perfect IDE
2021-03-04T00:38:29 < fenugrec> although for structs, I recently learned about "pretty-printing" in gdb instead of the awful mess it produces by default
2021-03-04T00:38:42 < zyp> isn't pretty printing on by default?
2021-03-04T00:39:00 < fenugrec> IME, never
2021-03-04T00:39:16 < zyp> ah, no, I've added it to my global .gdbinit :)
2021-03-04T00:39:59 < fenugrec> ("set print pretty on" , if anyone wants to know)
2021-03-04T00:40:54 < zyp> I've done some work on python-plugins for gdb recently
2021-03-04T00:41:25 < qyx> Steffanx: idk, at least she tried
2021-03-04T00:41:44 < qyx> I miss those times
2021-03-04T00:42:10 < zyp> one of the constexpr optimizations I did makes gdb unable to follow my peripheral reg references now, just tells me it's optimized out
2021-03-04T00:43:22 < zyp> some time I have time I'm gonna see if I can fix that, because the information is available
2021-03-04T00:43:37 < zyp> but for the time being I've made a workaround
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2021-03-04T01:01:12 < vegii> qyx: "those" times?
2021-03-04T01:02:03 < vegii> also, what strategies do you use for assigning pins?
2021-03-04T01:02:30 < fenugrec> Hmm, can the watchdog reset the core if it's stopped on a BKPT opcode
2021-03-04T01:05:53 < fenugrec> ah yes. DBG_IWDG_STOP: Debug independent watchdog stopped when core is halted
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2021-03-04T01:12:59 < t4nk_freenode> wellthen.. postnl is barely alive to me after all.
2021-03-04T01:14:15 < t4nk_freenode> thing is.. the guy that delivers my packages is reall nice.. hehe, he's spent quite a bit of time now, trying to toss my packages up to me on the balcony ;)
2021-03-04T01:14:39 < t4nk_freenode> every 10th toss or so is a hit, so you can imagine the fun ;)
2021-03-04T01:18:13 < t4nk_freenode> last time he hit my neighbour's car.. that was an absolute bonus :b
2021-03-04T01:23:06 < ventyl> Starship has landed
2021-03-04T01:23:07 < ventyl> in one piece
2021-03-04T01:24:18 < englishman> that was fucking awesome
2021-03-04T01:24:25 < t4nk_freenode> ?
2021-03-04T01:24:32 < t4nk_freenode> that mars stuff?
2021-03-04T01:29:29 < ventyl> those shots... sci-fi like. except in real life
2021-03-04T01:30:54 < vegii> t4nk_freenode: wth
2021-03-04T01:31:02 < t4nk_freenode> ?
2021-03-04T01:31:18 < ventyl> t4nk_freenode: yeah, that mars stuff
2021-03-04T01:31:30 < vegii> postman throwing packages onto balcony?
2021-03-04T01:31:32 < t4nk_freenode> I thought that was a couple of weeks ago
2021-03-04T01:31:40 < ventyl> today was another
2021-03-04T01:31:47 < ventyl> with another testing article
2021-03-04T01:31:48 < t4nk_freenode> yeah vegii ... old you he was a cool guy ;)
2021-03-04T01:31:51 < ventyl> this one survived testing
2021-03-04T01:32:31 < t4nk_freenode> ah, hang on
2021-03-04T01:32:43 < vegii> postnl sure lost some of my aliexpress parcels
2021-03-04T01:32:56 < vegii> possibly more than all others combined
2021-03-04T01:33:09 < t4nk_freenode> I was thinking about the rover stuff... but you meant the musk rockets
2021-03-04T01:33:20 < t4nk_freenode> I saw the previous one crash 
2021-03-04T01:33:48 < vegii> spacex is relevant again?
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2021-03-04T01:34:56 < t4nk_freenode> vegii, when I pay extra( often more than the actual value of the goods) it gets sent with complete tracking, that has never failed me yet *knock on wood*
2021-03-04T01:35:41 < ventyl> hm, it seems, that it decided to explode post-landing anyway
2021-03-04T01:35:58 < vegii> link pls
2021-03-04T01:36:06 < t4nk_freenode> I ordered 2 packages through cainiao recently, because I don't care what happens to them.. but without tracking it's a real crime, can easily take a month or two
2021-03-04T01:36:48 < vegii> I stopped paying extra because it's still a lottery
2021-03-04T01:37:10 < vegii> some cheap packages arrive within 2-3 weeks, some take 3 months
2021-03-04T01:37:19 < t4nk_freenode> what country do you live in?
2021-03-04T01:37:26 < vegii> Austria
2021-03-04T01:37:53 < t4nk_freenode> may have sth to do with that... there's a new phenomenon now btw; '10-day delivery'
2021-03-04T01:38:14 < vegii> used it few times since last year
2021-03-04T01:38:37 < vegii> got my bluetooth earbuds this way
2021-03-04T01:39:22 < vegii> they are very decent btw
2021-03-04T01:39:30 < t4nk_freenode> ah well... won't last long now I guess.. in a few months the route to china will be barred
2021-03-04T01:39:41 < vegii> why?
2021-03-04T01:39:50 < ventyl> new import duty rules
2021-03-04T01:39:58 < ventyl> since, IIRC 1.7.2021
2021-03-04T01:40:07 < t4nk_freenode> and we will only be able to have some musk-drones ....crash-explode onto our balconies
2021-03-04T01:40:12 < vegii> I thought that will actually speed things up
2021-03-04T01:40:27 < ventyl> well, china will eventually adopt
2021-03-04T01:40:46 < t4nk_freenode> I suspect that more and more chinese stores are making theirway ono amazon
2021-03-04T01:40:55 < vegii> true
2021-03-04T01:41:05 < vegii> Amazon is owned by them
2021-03-04T01:41:16 < t4nk_freenode> but they're in disguise, selling their worthless *** at grown-up capitalist prices
2021-03-04T01:41:31 < ventyl> this happened years ago with ebay
2021-03-04T01:41:42 < ventyl> with warehouses in europe
2021-03-04T01:41:57 < ventyl> you could get your cheap chineese laptop battery for 150% the price in like 4 days
2021-03-04T01:42:00 < t4nk_freenode> the positive is that they'll ship from, for me, european warehouses so it seems
2021-03-04T01:42:11 < t4nk_freenode> ...exactly
2021-03-04T01:42:12 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-03-04T01:42:39 < ventyl> at least return warranty makes a bit more sense as postage is generally cheaper within europe
2021-03-04T01:42:54 < ventyl> IIRC I returned that one particular battery the next day
2021-03-04T01:43:00 < vegii> tbh aliexpress isn't even super convenient for buyers anymore
2021-03-04T01:43:02 < ventyl> as it lost 10% of capacity after each charge
2021-03-04T01:44:03 < ventyl> my ISP's mailbox is configured in such a way, that I am not even able to register with aliexpress
2021-03-04T01:44:14 < ventyl> i will never get registration e-mail
2021-03-04T01:44:15 < t4nk_freenode> I get frustrated by all the little schemes on AE... pictures obscured, amounts obscured... shipping cost messed around with
2021-03-04T01:44:40 < vegii> I had a laptop battery like that, which worked alright for the first few months. 5 hours battery life, then few months later all cells deteriorated down to like 150mAh
2021-03-04T01:46:10 < vegii> and ofc shit quiescent current, it would self discharge in 2 days when laptop was suspended to ram
2021-03-04T01:46:24 < vegii> rather than a week
2021-03-04T01:46:27 < ventyl> I had one original Apple battery, which literally died after around 4 months
2021-03-04T01:46:44 < ventyl> it lost all it's capacity, but was replaced under warranty without single question
2021-03-04T01:47:45 < ventyl> While it was around 10 year boundary after which Apple doesn't provide any spare parts, I expect that the battery was laying around for quite some time and wasn't a completely fresh one
2021-03-04T01:49:05 < t4nk_freenode> wouldn't it be great if we could just produce everything ourselves
2021-03-04T01:49:15 < t4nk_freenode> *fantasizing*
2021-03-04T01:49:34 < ventyl> i am slowly, very slowly moving there
2021-03-04T01:49:51 < t4nk_freenode> and I'm doing my utmost too
2021-03-04T01:49:52 < ventyl> i rarely buy complex systems, rather buy components and build the system myself
2021-03-04T01:51:04 < t4nk_freenode> buying a 3d printer has helped me a lot too
2021-03-04T01:52:41 < t4nk_freenode> I've never, not once, printed anything else but useful stuff
2021-03-04T01:52:45 < t4nk_freenode> not even a benchy
2021-03-04T01:53:03 < ventyl> two years ago, storage tank in my solar water heater corroded through. there was no compatible replacement, so I torn everything out and built it from scratch
2021-03-04T01:55:01 < bitmask> what would you get to power a high quality buck/boost converter? <= 30V 90W max output
2021-03-04T01:55:20 < bitmask> I guess 24V is a good choice?
2021-03-04T01:55:30 < bitmask> what form factor? brand? etc
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2021-03-04T02:01:15 < t4nk_freenode> (you know I have the answer, but I'm only ignoring you, right>?)
2021-03-04T02:02:38 < bitmask> heh
2021-03-04T02:04:48 -!- splud [~noneya.bi@unaffiliated/splud] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-04T02:08:01 < t4nk_freenode> still looking to expand my atx's with some kind of variable output myself... https://postimg.cc/K1CG94tC
2021-03-04T02:09:45 < bitmask> https://www.jameco.com/z/HLG-120H-30A-MEAN-WELL-120-Watt-LED-Driver-Single-Output-Switching-Power-Supply-120-Watt-30V-4A-A-Model_2137553.html
2021-03-04T02:09:51 < bitmask> hows this look?
2021-03-04T02:10:47 < bitmask> someone showed me this and its expensive but I like it :P
2021-03-04T02:10:47 < bitmask> http://www.miniware.com.cn/product/mdp-xp-digital-power-supply-set/
2021-03-04T02:11:08 < ventyl> qyx ranted something about LED PSUs when I had to rebuild PSU for my iMac
2021-03-04T02:11:59 < bitmask> hmm
2021-03-04T02:12:14 < t4nk_freenode> and how about sth like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000364274787.html
2021-03-04T02:13:05 < bitmask> https://www.jameco.com/z/NPF-120D-30-MEAN-WELL-120W-4A-30V-Single-Output-AC-DC-Switching-Power-Supply_2221771.html
2021-03-04T02:13:10 < bitmask> that one doesnt say led driver :)
2021-03-04T02:13:32 < ventyl> https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/ameof30-24sjz/ac-dc-converters/aimtec/
2021-03-04T02:13:37 < ventyl> I ended up using this one ^^
2021-03-04T02:13:41 < ventyl> but it is only 30W
2021-03-04T02:14:30 < ventyl> which raises a question of how I am gonna power 35W device using this :/
2021-03-04T02:14:51 < bitmask> yea I mean I could just get like a lrs-100-24
2021-03-04T02:15:14 < bitmask> a power brick woulda just been a bit easier for where I'm mounting it
2021-03-04T02:15:20 < bitmask> but not a big deal
2021-03-04T02:15:41 < bitmask> I also would have to cover the AC lines for safety
2021-03-04T02:15:45 < bitmask> since it will be in the open
2021-03-04T02:16:03 < ventyl> ah, so I won't put a lot of effort into designing the PSU
2021-03-04T02:16:20 < ventyl> I'll simply throw all the shit in and see if there will be some smoke signals or not
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2021-03-04T02:17:23 < bitmask> I think i'm just gonna go with the mean well npf
2021-03-04T02:17:55 < ventyl> i'm gonna get some sleep
2021-03-04T02:18:14 < t4nk_freenode> good luck with the bed bugs!
2021-03-04T02:18:37 < ventyl> evicted! gn
2021-03-04T02:18:47 < bitmask> oh damn, npf is listed as led driver
2021-03-04T02:19:09 < bitmask> i didnt see it was constant current
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2021-03-04T03:19:03 < englishman> successful landing AND explosion
2021-03-04T03:19:07 < englishman> something for everyone
2021-03-04T03:19:29 < aandrew> heh
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2021-03-04T03:31:47 < t4nk_freenode> and it all went so perfectly in 1969!
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2021-03-04T04:13:30 < fenugrec> except that error 1202 thing
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2021-03-04T10:17:02 < jpa-> hmm, SCPI is actually quite nice protocol
2021-03-04T10:17:11 < jpa-> owon implementation of it is crap, but usable
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2021-03-04T10:36:21 < Steffanx_> Stm32u5 .. what letter is next?
2021-03-04T10:37:28 < zyp> idk, but the letters make plenty of sense
2021-03-04T10:38:00 < zyp> l: low power, u: ultra-low power, w: wireless, etc…
2021-03-04T10:38:21 < Steffanx_> Soon vu very ultra low power?
2021-03-04T10:38:35 < Steffanx_> The wu.. wireless ultra low power :)
2021-03-04T10:38:39 < Steffanx_> Then*
2021-03-04T10:38:50 < zyp> not sure what f is, g is the next letter after f
2021-03-04T10:39:51 < Steffanx_> And h is after g... ohno its not:)
2021-03-04T10:41:24 < zyp> h is high performance :p
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2021-03-04T11:05:02 < jpa-> f is probably "flash"
2021-03-04T11:05:25 < jpa-> like good old pic16f
2021-03-04T11:19:06 -!- karlp1 is now known as karlp
2021-03-04T11:43:05 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, scpi gets a lot of shit, but it's pretty flexible.
2021-03-04T11:43:15 < karlp> real issues are how it's all..... similar, but not the same...
2021-03-04T11:43:18 < karlp> lots of little dialect tweaks.
2021-03-04T11:43:37 < karlp> but for an API, you can get going _really_ quickly iwth custom integrations
2021-03-04T11:43:49 < karlp> a lot less need for a  "driver" than with some other protocols
2021-03-04T11:49:44 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4
2021-03-04T12:12:51 < jadew> TLDR, more efficient light bulbs with longer life times, that are not available for sale anywhere else but in Dubai
2021-03-04T12:16:43 < karlp> how ar ethey more efficient?  I thought it was just that they were running more filaments so they ran each one at less power, so should run cooler and last longer
2021-03-04T12:16:52 < karlp> I don't know  where the efficienty claim came from
2021-03-04T12:17:09 < jadew> they're not linear
2021-03-04T12:17:18 < jadew> at lower power they are more efficient than at higher power
2021-03-04T12:19:07 < jadew> they're about twice as efficient as regular ones
2021-03-04T12:19:07 < karlp> where is that specced, I've heard that claimed, but never demonstrated.
2021-03-04T12:19:22 < karlp> that's a _massive_ claimed improvement in efficiency
2021-03-04T12:19:46 < jadew> it is, they're claiming 3W = 60W incandescent
2021-03-04T12:19:54 < karlp> you're implying that the filaments are _wildly_ expensive for the vendors to choose to run less of them and justify the worse efficiency
2021-03-04T12:19:55 < jadew> vs their 4W = 40W ones
2021-03-04T12:20:10 < karlp> I don't reall ybuy W=W claims as being ever comparable.
2021-03-04T12:20:16 < jadew> karlp, no, the implication is that they last too long
2021-03-04T12:20:27 < jadew> at least that's what the theory is
2021-03-04T12:20:50 < karlp> pretty sure bulbs are ~always failing due to driver failure long before filament failure though.
2021-03-04T12:20:54 < jadew> let me check the lumens spec
2021-03-04T12:21:05 < karlp> at least al the anecdotes I've ever seen or heard, and all my own failed ones.
2021-03-04T12:21:20 < jadew> same here, these ones might be better tho, because they also run cooler
2021-03-04T12:21:58 < jadew> so 3W = 600 lumen
2021-03-04T12:22:05 < jadew> 4W = 470 lumen
2021-03-04T12:22:08 < jadew> both from philips
2021-03-04T12:22:24 < jadew> 1W = 200 lumen
2021-03-04T12:22:33 < jadew> so they're basically getting 200 lumen/W
2021-03-04T12:22:48 < jadew> oh, the 4W one is actually 4.5W
2021-03-04T12:22:56 < jadew> so roughly twice as efficient
2021-03-04T12:23:09 < jadew> and longer lasting
2021-03-04T12:27:45 < karlp> there seems to be no way this is any sort of ip protected, so I don't really get why anyone would possibly not be doing the same thing.
2021-03-04T12:27:54 < karlp> even just for the efficiency gains
2021-03-04T12:28:00 < karlp> something's definitely missing somewhere.
2021-03-04T12:28:27 < karlp> getting double lumens per watt is a _massive_ boost, there's something not quite right here.
2021-03-04T12:29:53 < jadew> don't know if you watched the video, apparently it was developed in partnership with the ruler of Dubai and now they're mandatory in Dubai and Philips was granted a 5-year exclusive right to manufacture them
2021-03-04T12:30:49 < jadew> don't know if it extends beyond Dubai by other means, but it seems Philips should be free to sell them elsewhere too, they just don't
2021-03-04T12:35:13 < zyp> jlcpcb quality looks surprisingly good actually: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KGt6O.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/eTjCo.jpg
2021-03-04T12:36:25 < jadew> looks better than what I used to get from them
2021-03-04T12:36:56 < jadew> maybe they were overwhelmed with orders and they outsourced yours to one of their friends?
2021-03-04T12:37:28 < jadew> what's that smudge next to PA15 on the back?
2021-03-04T12:37:33 < jadew> is that from you?
2021-03-04T12:39:24 < ventyl> fenugrec: it wasn't UB after all. it was PEBKAC and misunderstanding of how stuff works
2021-03-04T12:42:16 < karlp> jadew: I watched the video a few months ago I think.
2021-03-04T12:42:34 < zyp> jadew, glue residue from the tape that were holding them together
2021-03-04T12:42:46 < karlp> but I mean, if it's as easy as "use more leds for the same power, get double efficiency" it should be already for sale from anyone else.
2021-03-04T12:43:02 < karlp> I don't buy that no-one else is going to be interested in double efficiency
2021-03-04T12:43:48 < karlp> zyp: is that with assembly from them too?
2021-03-04T12:43:49 < ventyl> i'd expect that it is easier and cheaper to manufacture lower power LED 
2021-03-04T12:43:50 < jadew> karlp, maybe it isn't that easy, maybe the LEDs themselves have to be designed in a way in which they maximize light output in that region
2021-03-04T12:43:54 < zyp> karlp, yes
2021-03-04T12:46:05 < jadew> zyp, ah, that's cool
2021-03-04T12:46:12 < jadew> how much was the assembly?
2021-03-04T12:46:53 < jadew> maybe they use a better PCB fab when you're ordering assembly too?
2021-03-04T12:47:45 < jadew> how much did you pay for shipping?
2021-03-04T12:47:53 < zyp> idk, it said pcb were done in factory 1 and assembly in factory 3
2021-03-04T12:48:01 < zyp> but I suspect better quality when you do 4L
2021-03-04T12:48:21 < jadew> shipping for my last elecrow order, which included two stencils with frames, ended up costing me a little below $200 total
2021-03-04T12:48:55 < jadew> total, meaning with VAT
2021-03-04T12:49:08 < karlp> zyp: trande dudes who are adding/added etm to gdb are givin ga talk at embedded world in 50 minutes, if you're keen.
2021-03-04T12:49:26 < zyp> I paid $156 all in all, $31 for pcb, $112 for assembly (including parts) and $21 in shipping, minus some coupon discount
2021-03-04T12:49:43 < jadew> thanks, that's pretty good
2021-03-04T12:49:53 < zyp> yeah, parts are most of it
2021-03-04T12:50:16 < zyp> the stm32 alone makes up $65 of the price
2021-03-04T12:50:19 < jadew> I'll definitely use them for my next batch
2021-03-04T12:50:41 < jadew> what courier did you use?
2021-03-04T12:50:56 < zyp> dhl, don't think I had any other choices
2021-03-04T12:50:58 < karlp> how many boards was that zyp?
2021-03-04T12:51:02 < zyp> at least not any cheaper ones
2021-03-04T12:51:04 < zyp> ten
2021-03-04T12:51:15 < zyp> so $16 per board
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2021-03-04T13:48:33 < karlp> trying out vscode for esp32,
2021-03-04T13:48:39 < karlp> pretty dissapointed with code completion.
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2021-03-04T13:49:30 < karlp> like, template app, ctrl-click on a struct field, offers me a popup with all structs in the repo that have that field, rather than just the struct it's in.
2021-03-04T13:49:52 < ventyl> is it something thightly integrated?
2021-03-04T13:50:16 < ventyl> ccls heavily depends on "project configuration" files which tell it, where to search for includes
2021-03-04T13:50:26 < ventyl> if this is not provided, it tends to act dumb
2021-03-04T13:51:44 < karlp> and this is ok? this is how people think it should be?
2021-03-04T13:52:18 < ventyl> no, that's not ok, just, in some configurations, this file (IIRC, it is named .ccls) is not provided automatically
2021-03-04T13:52:29 < ventyl> so then code completion acts dumb by default
2021-03-04T13:53:00 < ventyl> anyway, I had more luck making it work in neovim, than in vscode
2021-03-04T13:53:27 < ventyl> they share common language server infrastructure
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2021-03-04T15:05:54 < karlp> no, this is absurd, it's not even ctrl-clicking to a static function in the same file...
2021-03-04T15:10:19 < ventyl> then, it may be the intellisense itself, which means that the whole vscode is fucked up
2021-03-04T15:11:25 < karlp> brand new install.
2021-03-04T15:12:15 < ventyl> i mean, fundamentally fucked up. i have never had a lot of success with intellisense even in fully blown VS
2021-03-04T15:13:13 < ventyl> there's a bunch of replacements for it and I used to have it completely turned off, because all it returned was plain nonsense not unlike to what you describe
2021-03-04T15:15:58 < ventyl> also, internets say that neovim with its code completion plugin has higher success rate when using the same language server machinery compared to VScode
2021-03-04T15:16:24 < ventyl> and while VScode is damn chineese jigsaw puzzle, I will avoid it
2021-03-04T15:17:54 < jadew> karlp, try F12
2021-03-04T15:19:12 < jadew> ah, it's the same thing, didn't know about ctrl+click :D
2021-03-04T15:19:37 < karlp> heh, gatt attribute for hip size, but not for power factor
2021-03-04T15:21:31 < Steffanx> Time to get the karlp service registered 
2021-03-04T15:21:50 < Steffanx> And attributes 
2021-03-04T15:28:10 < englishman> karlp: isnt this basically your entire biz https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/evalstpm-3phiso.html
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2021-03-04T15:47:30 < karlp> I ean, it's all "just a multi meter" right?
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2021-03-04T15:50:37 < karlp> you can do it a lot simpler and cheaper with an atm90e32 and a spi isolator, instead of three of those stpms[12] and their own isolators and then another metrology system, but it works for some people that way..
2021-03-04T15:50:48 < karlp> it's all software right?
2021-03-04T15:51:35 < karlp> that board looks to be really a demo for their new 6kv isolator
2021-03-04T15:51:48 < karlp> and the gen 2 of that sigma delta modulator
2021-03-04T15:52:12 < karlp> is that st's _only_ isolation device?
2021-03-04T15:52:39 < karlp> huh, look slike it.
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2021-03-04T16:17:42 < zyp> so, uh, if I wanted to start a project based on LL, do I use cubemx to generate a template?
2021-03-04T16:32:35 < zyp> hmm, it generated a HAL template, I want LL
2021-03-04T16:33:52 < jpa-> zyp starts using cube? now i've seen everything
2021-03-04T16:34:51 < zyp> workstuff, gonna write some code to be integrated in a LL-based project
2021-03-04T16:35:10 < jpa-> karlp: have you installed the C/C++ plugin for vscode? for me ctrl-click on struct field takes me directly to correct struct
2021-03-04T16:36:14 < zyp> wouldn't have bothered with this shit if not for the fact that it's going to be integrated with existing LL-based stuff :)
2021-03-04T16:40:40 < karlp> yeah, c/c++ is installed.
2021-03-04T16:40:55 < karlp> this is going to be something with scopes for the esp32-idf I guess.
2021-03-04T16:41:15 < karlp> but there's some notes on "build it once, then replace the c_cpp properties thingy with this other content, and it wil be better" but it made no difference to me.
2021-03-04T16:43:11 < jpa-> is the "other content" using compile_commands.json, and is that getting generated?
2021-03-04T16:47:42 < karlp> eyah, and yeah
2021-03-04T16:48:44 < karlp> bt 5.2 spec has an empty chapter for advertising.  bt 4.0 spec has the full details?!
2021-03-04T16:52:54 < karlp> ah, found it, in the CSS doc instead.
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2021-03-04T17:14:58 < zyp> fun, linux can still run into swap hell even without swap
2021-03-04T17:15:44 < zyp> haven't upgraded the ram in the new work computer yet, so I've only got 16G, and cubemx was eating like 2.3G of that
2021-03-04T17:15:49 < BrainDamage> yup, swap code runs even if theere's no swap
2021-03-04T17:16:10 < BrainDamage> there's a code to disable, but I forgot
2021-03-04T17:16:14 < zyp> I guess there's some mmap regions it can dump
2021-03-04T17:16:17 < zyp> but still
2021-03-04T17:17:32 < zyp> guess now I'll have a reason to get more ram ordered tomorrow :p
2021-03-04T17:24:26 < karlp> jpa-: just disabled cmake to try and get esp-idf's customized editor, prompted a restart,
2021-03-04T17:24:48 < karlp> c/c++ plugin asked me if I'd like to use a compile_commands outut to customize intellisense, said yes, now it's behaving much better :)
2021-03-04T17:24:58 < jpa-> heh
2021-03-04T17:25:37 < karlp> or seems to be, I think it's still prompting some dumb things sometimes, but will exploremore.
2021-03-04T17:25:53 < jpa-> i've been quite happy with vscode
2021-03-04T17:26:06 < jpa-> but i tend to run to weird bugs, like now my scrollbars don't work
2021-03-04T17:26:58 < ventyl> karlp: it may be worth of inspecting compile commands, based on what generated them, there may be problems using platform headers
2021-03-04T17:27:06 < ventyl> i've had this problem with AVR
2021-03-04T17:27:47 < karlp> blah, nordic ble toolkit doesn't have an updated company id registry, still says I'm "reserved" :)
2021-03-04T17:41:28 < fenugrec>    zyp, not all periphs have LL in cube.. the "project manager" tab lets you choose
2021-03-04T17:41:58 < fenugrec> I'm mixing HAL, LL and direct access in a project, and I think it's not a great idea
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2021-03-04T18:46:39 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/FoH7if5iNig
2021-03-04T18:49:59 < Steffanx> Thanks, but no
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2021-03-04T18:57:56 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/BbuV4.mp4 coroutine blinky
2021-03-04T18:58:47 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/7zVT8 nice to see this working also in practice, not just in simulators :)
2021-03-04T18:59:39 < mawk> nice blink
2021-03-04T18:59:41 < mawk> what board is it?
2021-03-04T18:59:48 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2021-03-04T18:59:51 < mawk> I handpicked it for you
2021-03-04T19:00:03 < zyp> the one I got from jlcpcb today
2021-03-04T19:00:04 < qyx> zyp: is it the jlcpcb populated board?
2021-03-04T19:00:26 < zyp> qyx, did you miss the pics earlier today?
2021-03-04T19:00:42 < qyx> probably, lets check
2021-03-04T19:00:44 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KGt6O.jpg https://bin.jvnv.net/file/eTjCo.jpg
2021-03-04T19:01:08 < qyx> not bad, lead free?
2021-03-04T19:01:33 < qyx> 0402 passives?
2021-03-04T19:01:33 < zyp> well, it's ENIG
2021-03-04T19:01:36 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-04T19:01:57 < mawk> it's curr meas supposed to be a jumper?
2021-03-04T19:02:09 < mawk> ah no
2021-03-04T19:02:21 < zyp> it sits in parallel with 1R
2021-03-04T19:02:32 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-04T19:03:55 < qyx> interesting that vertical tracks are narrower
2021-03-04T19:04:00 < qyx> on the first photo
2021-03-04T19:04:23 < zyp> they are not, light and shadows in the photo are deceptive
2021-03-04T19:05:17 < mawk> why not black solder mask
2021-03-04T19:05:21 < mawk> it looks cooler
2021-03-04T19:05:50 < zyp> it'd make it a special order requiring longer time and possibly cost more
2021-03-04T19:06:50 < zyp> yeah, two days more and an additional $17
2021-03-04T19:10:52 < qyx> how much was this?
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2021-03-04T19:24:19 < bitmask> way overpriced but I ordered this little power supply: http://www.miniware.com.cn/product/mdp-xp-digital-power-supply-set/
2021-03-04T19:24:32 < bitmask> I wanna try to hack some addons for it
2021-03-04T19:24:42 < bitmask> and supposedly it will be open source eventually
2021-03-04T19:26:23 < Mangy_Dog> wont lie looks pretty
2021-03-04T19:26:31 < Mangy_Dog> but i suspect its hidiously over priced too
2021-03-04T19:26:47 < bitmask> extremely, 200 bucks for 90w
2021-03-04T19:27:00 < Mangy_Dog> fekk me!
2021-03-04T19:30:18 < bitmask> i like how its modular though
2021-03-04T19:30:43 < bitmask> you can get a second 90w to add to it for like $140
2021-03-04T19:30:48 < bitmask> :P
2021-03-04T20:05:38 -!- nikomo_ is now known as nikomo
2021-03-04T20:53:46 < jadew> since tesla announced that they bought 1.5 billion in bitcoin, their stock price dropped by 30%
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2021-03-04T20:53:59 < jadew> that's less than a month ago
2021-03-04T20:55:47 < Steffanx> Who cares about buttcoin 
2021-03-04T20:56:20 < jadew> Tesla investors apparently - they don't like it
2021-03-04T20:57:26 < jadew> the comments on the stock are hilarious, they think it's going to recover lol
2021-03-04T21:00:03 < zyp> how can you tell it won't? :)
2021-03-04T21:00:16 < jadew> it's massively overpriced
2021-03-04T21:00:30 < jadew> the bitcoin thing was just the event that popped the bubble
2021-03-04T21:00:32 < zyp> like that ever stopped it from rising before
2021-03-04T21:01:15 < jadew> yeah, but 30% is a full blown crash already and it scared away all the speculators
2021-03-04T21:01:30 < zyp> if you're so confident about this, why don't you go short it instead of talk shit on irc? :)
2021-03-04T21:01:49 < jadew> it can always go up enough to kill my position
2021-03-04T21:02:22 < jadew> I shorted some crypto a couple of weeks ago and while it crashed, it only crashed two days later
2021-03-04T21:02:30 < jadew> and in the meantime I lost my position
2021-03-04T21:04:23 < mawk> kraken has 5× leverage on margin trading
2021-03-04T21:05:19 < mawk> use more leverage jadew 
2021-03-04T21:05:33 < mawk> to secure your positions
2021-03-04T21:05:34 < jadew> so I can lose it quicker?
2021-03-04T21:05:37 < mawk> when trading future contracts you get up to 50× leverage
2021-03-04T21:05:39 < mawk> also if you expect it to go up then down you can always hedge to securize your monnie just in case
2021-03-04T21:05:41 < mawk> then you won't have closing positions
2021-03-04T21:05:45 < mawk> no
2021-03-04T21:05:51 < mawk> more leverage means less collateral is needed
2021-03-04T21:06:03 < mawk> so your position tolerates a higher amplitude
2021-03-04T21:06:10 < mawk> of loss
2021-03-04T21:06:31 < jadew> right, but that also means that your position can close easier, because you need more margin in your account, otherwise you get margin called by the broker
2021-03-04T21:06:39 < mawk> you need less margin
2021-03-04T21:06:52 < mawk> for a given position size, the more leverage the less margin you need
2021-03-04T21:07:05 < jadew> mawk, yes, but the more the leverage, the higher the loss
2021-03-04T21:07:12 < jadew> meaning that it can take your account out quicker
2021-03-04T21:07:19 < mawk> that's only if you increase the position size in proportion to the leverage
2021-03-04T21:07:33 < jadew> -1% * 50 > -1% * 5
2021-03-04T21:08:01 < mawk> that's only if you take a 50× bigger position
2021-03-04T21:08:17 < jadew> ah, I see what you mean
2021-03-04T21:08:21 < jadew> it would be the same tho
2021-03-04T21:08:28 < jadew> it works out to the same situation
2021-03-04T21:09:04 < jadew> if you take the same position size with 50% leverage, you still need the same balance in your account in order for the position not to close, just as if it was only x5
2021-03-04T21:09:13 < jadew> *50x leverage
2021-03-04T21:09:42 < mawk> you have more available funds in your account with a higher leverage
2021-03-04T21:09:48 < mawk> since the collateral is lower
2021-03-04T21:10:12 < jadew> your entire account is collateral
2021-03-04T21:10:24 < Steffanx> Funds safu???
2021-03-04T21:10:27 < mawk> I mean the margin, or whatever it's called
2021-03-04T21:10:30 < mawk> the amount locked
2021-03-04T21:10:51 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-03-04T21:10:58 < mawk> I'm hodling monero
2021-03-04T21:11:01 < jadew> yeah, the margin is smaller, but your account has to be the same size as before
2021-03-04T21:11:05 < mawk> it's the currency of the future
2021-03-04T21:11:10 < jadew> you're right tho, you have more free margin to use for other stocks
2021-03-04T21:11:19 < jadew> so I guess you can diversify better
2021-03-04T21:12:03 < mawk> kraken has acceptable low fees
2021-03-04T21:12:10 < jadew> how low?
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2021-03-04T21:12:17 < mawk> so with margin I was trying to make money off daily fluctuations
2021-03-04T21:12:23 < jadew> I'm paying $16 for leveraged trades
2021-03-04T21:12:26 < mawk> I think 0.10% is the lowest you can go
2021-03-04T21:12:27 < mawk> what
2021-03-04T21:12:31 < mawk> on kraken?
2021-03-04T21:12:36 < jadew> no, on xtb
2021-03-04T21:12:43 < mawk> go on kraken then
2021-03-04T21:12:56 < mawk> I think I pay like 1€ for the leveraged positions that I keep one day
2021-03-04T21:13:00 < jadew> that's closing and opening or total fee?
2021-03-04T21:13:04 < mawk> total fee
2021-03-04T21:13:07 < mawk> it's a hourly fee
2021-03-04T21:13:09 < mawk> iirc
2021-03-04T21:13:11 < mawk> or daily maybe
2021-03-04T21:13:14 < jadew> oh
2021-03-04T21:13:18 < jadew> this is one time
2021-03-04T21:13:22 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-04T21:13:35 < mawk> but unless you keep your position a month, kraken is more advantageous
2021-03-04T21:13:36 < jadew> $8 for open, $8 for close or 0.08%, whichever is higher
2021-03-04T21:13:46 < mawk> and given volatility, you will keep them not so long
2021-03-04T21:13:54 < jadew> yeah, I intend to keep my position longer than that if necessary
2021-03-04T21:14:20 < mawk> for long positions you would rather just buy it normally I guess no?
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2021-03-04T21:14:25 < mawk> leverage is dangerous to keep long
2021-03-04T21:14:34 < jadew> not if you calculate it properly
2021-03-04T21:14:38 < mawk> unless you have a trading bot or advanced stop loss orders and stuff
2021-03-04T21:15:17 < mawk> and also take profit orders to calculate to be just right in advance
2021-03-04T21:15:24 < mawk> unless you'll monitor the chart all day long
2021-03-04T21:15:25 < jadew> depends on what kind of stocks you're investing, I would rather use non leveraged for high volatility stuff, because I have 0% commission on that, and then you can scalp (if you're into that)
2021-03-04T21:15:54 < jadew> but for stocks, I look for stable ones which reflect the actual value (think not Tesla)
2021-03-04T21:15:59 < mawk> how do you scalp dips with no margin?
2021-03-04T21:16:13 < jadew> you use a lot of money
2021-03-04T21:16:20 < mawk> no leverage
2021-03-04T21:16:23 < jadew> yeah
2021-03-04T21:16:24 < mawk> well you have to sell, then buy again
2021-03-04T21:16:30 < mawk> so you need to own it already
2021-03-04T21:16:43 < jadew> ah, you mean for shorting, well, you can scalp up too
2021-03-04T21:16:49 < jadew> but yeah, I suppose you're right
2021-03-04T21:16:57 < jadew> you can still find CFDs with 1:1
2021-03-04T21:17:08 < jadew> my platform doesn't offer that
2021-03-04T21:17:20 < jadew> but again, for CFDs, there's that fee
2021-03-04T21:17:20 < mawk>  ah
2021-03-04T21:17:30 < mawk> but yours isn't crypto
2021-03-04T21:17:32 < jadew> maybe the fee is only for leveraged stuff?
2021-03-04T21:17:34 < mawk> kraken is
2021-03-04T21:17:38 < mawk> and also forex I guess
2021-03-04T21:17:43 < mawk> you can trade fiat pairs
2021-03-04T21:17:47 < jadew> this one does that too
2021-03-04T21:17:50 < mawk> a
2021-03-04T21:17:58 < jadew> let me check the fees crypto
2021-03-04T21:18:25 < jadew> no, fee, just spread and daily swap
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2021-03-04T21:29:06 < fenugrec> ##investm32
2021-03-04T21:29:45 < jadew> hah, that's one of the better ones
2021-03-04T21:29:57 < jpa-> yeah, ##incestm32 is the worse one
2021-03-04T21:30:08 < jadew> lol
2021-03-04T21:30:59 < Steffanx> Is jpa- alright? Do you know?
2021-03-04T21:31:06 < zyp> nope
2021-03-04T21:31:32 < Steffanx> Yeah, i think he's not jpa- 
2021-03-04T21:32:25 < jpa-> are my jokes too good this evening?
2021-03-04T21:32:43 < Steffanx> unusual.
2021-03-04T21:36:17 < PaulFertser> Talking about vaccination, I've heard a live broadcast on radio this morning, people from different russian towns were calling and telling if they have any difficulty getting vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2. Apparently many parts of russia have more doses than people wanting to get it.
2021-03-04T21:36:24 < Steffanx> i need some usual scrap update jpa- .. 1 year since last post :o
2021-03-04T21:37:18 < jadew> PaulFertser, in here it's difficult to find a place where to get vaccinated and it's all online (you can go to a different city if you want to)
2021-03-04T21:37:42 < PaulFertser> jadew: but are there any age restrictions so that you need to be older than N to get it at all?
2021-03-04T21:38:04 < jpa-> Steffanx: you can google translate this one: https://jyvaskyla.hacklab.fi/2020/12/31/puinen-syvyyskartta/
2021-03-04T21:38:14 < PaulFertser> Here you just need to be older than 18.
2021-03-04T21:38:16 < jadew> yes, for stage 2, but we're going to enter stage 3 in a couple of days, and everyone can sign up
2021-03-04T21:38:30 < jadew> ah, in here it's 65
2021-03-04T21:38:43 < PaulFertser> I guess that mostly means that the majority of russians are either afraid or think it's useless to get vaccinated.
2021-03-04T21:39:06 < Steffanx> such cnc jpa-  :D
2021-03-04T21:39:32 < jadew> I have heard about two people known to my mother in law that have died from covid so far
2021-03-04T21:40:33 < PaulFertser> jadew: what about your friends working in drugstores and such? Were they infected eventually?
2021-03-04T21:40:42 < jadew> yeah, many were
2021-03-04T21:40:49 < jadew> but they were fine
2021-03-04T21:41:03 < zyp> here the municipalities are responsible for organising vaccination, so I filled out a form that I want one and they will let me know when it's my turn
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2021-03-04T21:41:33 < Steffanx> Ive no clue how its organized here
2021-03-04T21:41:46 < Steffanx> Except that eventually is my turn
2021-03-04T21:41:46 < zyp> current schedule says they expect to start on my age group in june or so
2021-03-04T21:41:52 < PaulFertser> jpa-: I wonder if the article is written not in English. Is that some kind of "we like and we are proud of our language and want to promote it" thing or is there some other reason?
2021-03-04T21:42:19 < jadew> zyp, do you get to choose which vaccine you take?
2021-03-04T21:42:21 < zyp> but it's been shifting a bit back and forth with updates on vaccine deliveries
2021-03-04T21:42:23 < zyp> no
2021-03-04T21:42:57 < jadew> in here you're told when you're scheduled for the second dose as well, and you can tell by that which vaccine you're going to get
2021-03-04T21:43:04 < jadew> and if it's not the one you want you can reschedule :)
2021-03-04T21:43:13 < zyp> haha, true
2021-03-04T21:43:14 < jpa-> PaulFertser: it's easier to write and read in my native language, and it is on a local hacklab website anyway
2021-03-04T21:44:05 < zyp> just a matter of audience :)
2021-03-04T21:44:07 < PaulFertser> jpa-: hm, I would have more difficulty writing a technical piece in russian as I do not know or like many words that would be needed.
2021-03-04T21:44:10 < jadew> Steffanx, you have no interest in getting vaccinated?
2021-03-04T21:44:37 < Steffanx> What is the point knowing when it might happen when they dont really know
2021-03-04T21:44:53 < PaulFertser> I spot cyrillic here: https://jyvaskyla.hacklab.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/IMG_20201029_172232-scaled.jpg
2021-03-04T21:45:04 < zyp> yeah, no need to stress out about it, just wait for your turn
2021-03-04T21:45:21 < PaulFertser> It's written "GAY" there.
2021-03-04T21:45:32 < jadew> is that a T4x?
2021-03-04T21:46:27 < jpa-> PaulFertser: it's our clunky friend sergei, dutifully stepping around
2021-03-04T21:47:41 < PaulFertser> Is he clunky because he's russian?
2021-03-04T21:47:43 < Steffanx> you should have picked better wood jpa-.. the rough edges are meh
2021-03-04T21:48:14 < jpa-> Steffanx: i like it :)
2021-03-04T21:48:32 < Steffanx> no you dont
2021-03-04T21:48:39 < Steffanx> you just know how much work it was to do this
2021-03-04T21:48:53 < jpa-> PaulFertser: no, it's clunky because we didn't make any plans, just built it from local hardware store supplies :)
2021-03-04T21:49:00 < jpa-> Steffanx: huh?
2021-03-04T21:49:05 < Steffanx> lol
2021-03-04T21:49:19 < PaulFertser> jpa-: that's an odd name for a stepper.
2021-03-04T21:49:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: what rough edges do you mean anyway? the wood bark or the cut fibers?
2021-03-04T21:49:26 < PaulFertser> I mean for a CNC machine.
2021-03-04T21:49:57 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah, i don't know why one dude decided to name it that :)
2021-03-04T21:50:01 < PaulFertser> I do not even know how a router called in russian.
2021-03-04T21:50:10 < Steffanx> jpa-:  https://imgur.com/a/MUZOiEx
2021-03-04T21:51:56 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah - i'm not sure though what wood would be good, most will tear out at some angles when routing
2021-03-04T21:52:02 < jpa-> not that badly as this did though
2021-03-04T21:52:09 < PaulFertser> I like how ad-hoc it looks
2021-03-04T21:55:02 < Steffanx> true jpa- . i wouldnt know either
2021-03-04T21:56:01 < jpa-> some smart CAM software might be able to route out stuff so that it always goes along the grain
2021-03-04T22:07:17 < zyp> hmm, my usb task eats all the cpu and doesn't let any other tasks run
2021-03-04T22:10:26 < zyp> ah, wrong
2021-03-04T22:10:33 < mawk> zyp: is it made by microsoft?
2021-03-04T22:10:50 < zyp> no, I must have a logic error elsewhere
2021-03-04T22:11:17 < zyp> apparently the problem is that I've disabled interrupts
2021-03-04T22:13:22 < zyp> oh, duh
2021-03-04T22:15:48 < Steffanx> yes duh
2021-03-04T22:16:29 < Steffanx> such unusual day today. First jpa- makes jokes and then zyp makes mistakes.
2021-03-04T22:16:57 < zyp> yeah, entire scheduler.run() was called from a critical section, that function only returns when there's no ready tasks (to go wfi)
2021-03-04T22:17:28 < zyp> and my usb code is still not interrupt driven, just yields, so scheduler.run() never returns
2021-03-04T22:18:26 < zyp> fixed that and now I have async usb and led tasks running concurrently :)
2021-03-04T22:19:00 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/75iYw
2021-03-04T22:21:07 < jpa-> pretty fast traffic lights, but i guess all norwegians have e-cars that go from 0 to 100 in 100ms
2021-03-04T22:21:47 < zyp> :)
2021-03-04T22:22:06 < zyp> I love the time literals already
2021-03-04T22:24:27 < qyx> except that your sequence is  wrong
2021-03-04T22:48:26 < Steffanx> no its right
2021-03-04T22:52:00 < qyx> when changing from red to green, turn off red when turning on green
2021-03-04T22:52:10 < qyx> not at the same time yellow is turned on
2021-03-04T22:52:32 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-04T22:52:40 < zyp> that's the sequence we use here too
2021-03-04T22:52:51 < zyp> red, red+yellow, green, yellow, red
2021-03-04T22:53:08 < Steffanx> but now you're assuming he wanted to make a traffic light, qyx  :P
2021-03-04T22:53:16 < zyp> which I didn't :)
2021-03-04T22:53:47 < qyx> I am now a traffic light pro, I did one for the kid recently
2021-03-04T22:54:19 < Steffanx> and here the order is. Green, orange, red and back to green. "Never" on at the same time.
2021-03-04T22:55:11 < jadew> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/04/billionaire-investor-ron-baron-sells-1point8-million-tesla-shares.html
2021-03-04T22:55:31 < zyp> the point of the red+yellow is to get your attention before it turns green
2021-03-04T22:56:01 < Steffanx> whats with this Tesla obsession jadew ? Tesla is the new corona/covid/whatever
2021-03-04T22:56:15 < jadew> Steffanx, I was asking myself that just now
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2021-03-04T22:56:32 < jadew> I think it's because I was kicking myself in the nuts for not buying tesla when I had the chance
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2021-03-04T22:57:20 < PaulFertser> We have some traffic lights here where there's also plenty of lights on the post and the over-the-road rod (which the traffic light is hanging from) too. Looks quite fancy.
2021-03-04T22:58:39 < PaulFertser> https://img.drive.ru/i/0/587f60e6ec05c42105000006.jpeg
2021-03-04T22:59:34 < Steffanx> heh fancy indeed
2021-03-04T23:01:08 < jadew> zyp, that sequence is dangerous
2021-03-04T23:01:25 < jadew> if the red one is busted, then you're left with yellow
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2021-03-04T23:01:38 < jadew> which might make some drivers think that it was green and it just turned yellow
2021-03-04T23:01:39 < Steffanx> if the green one is busted people will never go...
2021-03-04T23:01:48 < jadew> heh
2021-03-04T23:01:56 < jadew> they would, but carefully :)
2021-03-04T23:02:35 < zyp> jadew, how does that matter?
2021-03-04T23:02:38 < Steffanx> but how you know its broken?
2021-03-04T23:02:57 < zyp> jadew, yellow's still only lit a few seconds immediately before and after green
2021-03-04T23:02:59 < jadew> zyp, if it's green and it just turned yellow, many drivers just go thru
2021-03-04T23:03:04 < zyp> yeah?
2021-03-04T23:03:44 < zyp> not like it's any more dangerous when it's about to turn green than when it was just green
2021-03-04T23:04:02 < jadew> well, green -> yellow, means the other guys are still on red
2021-03-04T23:04:42 < zyp> so does red+yellow
2021-03-04T23:04:47 < PaulFertser> jadew: yellow still means driving through is prohibited. You're only allowed to do that if you were seeing green and then it turned yellow and you can't stop without braking really hard.
2021-03-04T23:04:55 < jadew> red -> yellow, means the other guys are probably on yellow or about to fully stop
2021-03-04T23:04:57 < jadew> but some might not
2021-03-04T23:05:03 < PaulFertser> jadew: but if you didn't see green in the first time you're not supposed to drive through at all.
2021-03-04T23:05:04 < jadew> it just allows room for overalp
2021-03-04T23:05:22 < zyp> also what PaulFertser said
2021-03-04T23:05:23 < jadew> PaulFertser, I'm aware of that
2021-03-04T23:05:38 < jadew> but that doesn't stop people from going thru anyway
2021-03-04T23:05:49 < PaulFertser> Some run the red light too
2021-03-04T23:05:57 < jadew> right, but more people run yellow ones
2021-03-04T23:06:37 < zyp> I'm not sure you get red+yellow and yellow at the same time
2021-03-04T23:07:06 < PaulFertser> In moscow most of the lights are showing countdown numbers.
2021-03-04T23:07:06 < zyp> I think other side is already red by the time you get red+yellow
2021-03-04T23:07:11 < jadew> zyp, you might not, but of those who run on yellow, when it goes green->yellow
2021-03-04T23:07:18 < jadew> many are actually running a red light
2021-03-04T23:07:20 < zyp> PaulFertser, for cars? not just pedestrians?
2021-03-04T23:07:26 < jadew> the point of waiting a little longer, is so you don't crash with them
2021-03-04T23:07:26 < PaulFertser> zyp: cars too
2021-03-04T23:07:37 < zyp> huh, never seen that
2021-03-04T23:07:46 < zyp> pedestrian countdowns are common
2021-03-04T23:07:54 < PaulFertser> For red light
2021-03-04T23:08:03 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, countdown timers are cool
2021-03-04T23:08:07 < PaulFertser> Some for green too
2021-03-04T23:08:16 < jadew> I've seen them in a different city and it's a great system
2021-03-04T23:08:48 < PaulFertser> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSHK-F-m_lCjCIXInltVk9OnWkhwM0XZOed0qAit68fQObxqG26RahBtUJDho&s
2021-03-04T23:09:06 < jadew> that's more advanced
2021-03-04T23:09:14 < jadew> the ones I saw had the counter next to them I think
2021-03-04T23:09:19 < zyp> we don't really have a lot of lights here
2021-03-04T23:10:08 < zyp> norway likes roundabouts, they are more efficient
2021-03-04T23:10:28 < PaulFertser> btw, can you imagine the legal speed limit for regular moscow streets is 60 km/h but there's no legal fine for speeding unless you go over 80 km/h?
2021-03-04T23:10:57 < ventyl> oh, russian roads
2021-03-04T23:11:02 < zyp> well, it's russia, can't say I'm too surprised :)
2021-03-04T23:11:19 < PaulFertser> I'm fucking surprised every day. Russians are crooked.
2021-03-04T23:11:24 < ventyl> it is suprising, that russian roads are far *not* the most deadly roads in the world
2021-03-04T23:12:26 < Laurenceb> emi annihilated 
2021-03-04T23:12:29 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/27iopw.png
2021-03-04T23:12:42 < jadew> PaulFertser, it's 50 km/h here, and you get a fine only above 60 km/h
2021-03-04T23:13:17 < PaulFertser> jadew: I guess just like in most of Europe
2021-03-04T23:13:35 < zyp> Laurenceb, what am I looking at?
2021-03-04T23:14:09 < Laurenceb> spice sim of emi filtering with X2Y caps versus normal MLCC
2021-03-04T23:14:49 < Laurenceb> this should btfo the hyperloop emi
2021-03-04T23:15:57 < jadew> but you are comparing a 3rd order filter with a first order RC...
2021-03-04T23:16:12 < Laurenceb> jadew: thats whats currently fitted
2021-03-04T23:16:31 < jadew> ah, you have both?
2021-03-04T23:16:37 < jadew> at the same time?
2021-03-04T23:16:48 < Laurenceb> but yeah, third order with MLCC would be fairly good, but not so good
2021-03-04T23:16:56 < Laurenceb> jadew: in spice I do...
2021-03-04T23:17:08 < Laurenceb> on hyperloop atm there are only basic RC filters
2021-03-04T23:19:21 < zyp> so what's the deal with X2Y? it's essentially two capacitors in one that's interleaved?
2021-03-04T23:19:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-04T23:19:41 < Laurenceb> so it has very low parasitic inductance
2021-03-04T23:20:25 < Laurenceb> and very good matching
2021-03-04T23:20:42 < Laurenceb> both useful for filtering bridge inputs
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2021-03-04T23:59:52 < sync> jadew: if one of the lights breaks it will just flash yellow
--- Day changed Fri Mar 05 2021
2021-03-05T00:00:18 < sync> and yes, the filament sensing will act fast enough that you won't even see a flash
2021-03-05T00:05:01 < jadew> sync, same here
2021-03-05T00:05:12 < jadew> I have to go to bed otherwise I'll ruin my sleep schedule again
2021-03-05T00:05:14 < jadew> night
2021-03-05T00:22:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/misogynist-incel-guilty-of-killing-ten-by-driving-van-into-toronto-crowd-z5w8sx7mv
2021-03-05T00:43:17 < qyx> any idea why CMD9/CMD10 makes a particular card unresponsive? (responds illegal command to anything after issuing one of the two)
2021-03-05T00:43:27 < qyx> those are read CID and CSD
2021-03-05T00:45:37 < qyx> https://www.avrfreaks.net/forum/sd-card-invalid-command-responses
2021-03-05T00:45:41 < qyx> similar issue
2021-03-05T00:46:02 < qyx> except the conclusion stating "After considerably more testing, I'm now quite sure that these "SD" cards don't support SPI mode"
2021-03-05T00:46:13 < qyx> because my card works in SPI if I remove CMD9/10
2021-03-05T00:53:11 < qyx> ok, I had to send another *four* dummy bytes after reading the data just before deselecting the card
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2021-03-05T01:33:19 < karlp> does anyone know why bitmask paid $200 for a 90W supply?
2021-03-05T01:33:29 < bitmask> haha
2021-03-05T01:33:33 < bitmask> cause its cute
2021-03-05T01:33:47 < bitmask> its not even a supply its just just a buck converter!
2021-03-05T01:34:42 < bitmask> well to be fair, buck/boost
2021-03-05T01:36:39 < bitmask> at least its STM inside
2021-03-05T01:38:02 < mawk> you can send donations bitmask if you don't know what to do with your money
2021-03-05T01:38:11 < bitmask> :P
2021-03-05T01:39:15 < bitmask> If I had a bench I would have gotten a bench psu, but I needed something small so its not that bad of an idea
2021-03-05T01:39:34 < mawk> send moneros: 83M4cWw3DgZcriHPmhgB2dZBvJoubsW8uRAyXP882GzJMCtHWUZvZNkhqWBmK5C8b4Zxxk8TLoW5xaz4pQweZfgw8YbimSP
2021-03-05T01:42:33 < karlp> bitmask: so,,, you stil need an external brick supply?!
2021-03-05T01:42:38 < karlp> the fuck didyou pay for?
2021-03-05T01:42:57 < bitmask> I told you a buck/boost converter
2021-03-05T01:43:00 < bitmask> :P
2021-03-05T01:43:01 < karlp> https://www.amazon.com/KKmoon-RD6006W-Step-down-Converter-Voltmeter/dp/B07ZJLNHNK is way cheaper
2021-03-05T01:43:12 < karlp> if you still need a source bulk dc supply anyway
2021-03-05T01:43:38 < karlp> adn rd6006 series stuff has a big commubnity alreayd
2021-03-05T01:43:55 < bitmask> yea that was the other one I was looking at
2021-03-05T01:44:46 < bitmask> its not that much of a difference in price though, I wanted to play around with the one I got, They say they are gonna open source it which is what interested me
2021-03-05T01:47:05 < karlp> heh
2021-03-05T01:47:14 < bitmask> what I really wanted was the RD6012 or 6018 to come in a mixed topology like the 6006
2021-03-05T01:47:16 < karlp> personallyu, i don't believe _any_ of those claims until they happen.
2021-03-05T01:47:20 < bitmask> i dont know why they wouldnt do that
2021-03-05T01:47:21 < fenugrec> "eventually"
2021-03-05T01:47:43 < karlp> what do you meanby mixed topology?
2021-03-05T01:47:53 < fenugrec> no company has ever promised sourcecode etc and never delivered
2021-03-05T01:48:05 < bitmask> yea i know theres a decent chance it will never happen but its still possible to hack some stuff together. someone reverse engineered the 2.4ghz protocol it uses
2021-03-05T01:48:36 < bitmask> so without source you're limited to what you can do with that but its still something
2021-03-05T01:49:13 < bitmask> mixed meaning switching pre-reg followed by linear
2021-03-05T01:49:28 < bitmask> the 6006 does it and so does the one I got
2021-03-05T01:49:47 < karlp> where did you see that documented, I've never seen it written
2021-03-05T01:49:58 < bitmask> on the aliexpress page, one sec
2021-03-05T01:50:38 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002185722889.html
2021-03-05T01:50:53 < bitmask> closer to the top it has an image with the title two stage buck design
2021-03-05T01:52:31 < bitmask> i forget which one but i saw that it switches it down to half a volt higher than the setpoint and uses linear to bring that half a volt down
2021-03-05T01:54:43 < karlp> oh, there's a 6006 _P_ now too
2021-03-05T01:54:46 < karlp> didn't knw about that one
2021-03-05T01:54:56 < karlp> been looking at it for home for a while
2021-03-05T01:55:19 < bitmask> oh yea, I think thats the only one that does that? or maybe the P is just for that extra digit of precision
2021-03-05T01:56:21 < zyp> nice
2021-03-05T01:58:51 < karlp> I see wher eyou see this "mixed topology" claim, but I don't see any evidence that the 6012 and 6018 aren't the same?
2021-03-05T02:00:39 < zyp> I'm considering getting both a 6006P and a 6018
2021-03-05T02:01:46 < karlp> I'd been looking at a 6006 for a while, I don't think I need the bigger ones, but 6006p is definitely tipping the scales
2021-03-05T02:01:48 < bitmask> yea im not sure, It just doesn't list it like it does with the 6006p
2021-03-05T02:01:55 < karlp> I still have ~zero usage for it really...
2021-03-05T02:01:59 < bitmask> and I would think that would be a big selling point
2021-03-05T02:02:09 < bitmask> so its a strange thing to omit
2021-03-05T02:03:56 < karlp> bitmask: I think most people care more about "output ripple" and things, rahter tahn "are the input capacitors green or blue"
2021-03-05T02:04:14 < zyp> the only reason I want a 6018 is to have something for shit like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/or7vC.mp4
2021-03-05T02:04:16 < karlp> because thats' what it comes down to, you don't (or, shouldn't) care about internal topology, you should care about the specs delivered
2021-03-05T02:04:45 < bitmask> well linear usually implies less ripple
2021-03-05T02:05:18 < zyp> those led matrices draw a ton of current
2021-03-05T02:05:44 < zyp> I think the video is shot at 1/8 duty or something, and it's still drawing 1.4A
2021-03-05T02:07:29 < karlp> bitmask: right, so look at the ripple spec, and say, "is that ok?" rahter than, "what topology doe shtis use?" 
2021-03-05T02:07:51 < bitmask> fair enough
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2021-03-05T02:10:44 < karlp> zyp: how's themighty korad treated you?
2021-03-05T02:10:51 < karlp> I've been really happy with ours, 
2021-03-05T02:11:08 < karlp> been tossing up whether to get a rd6006(p?) or a korad 3005 for home.
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2021-03-05T02:17:08 < englishman> i have one like that, gr8 supply
2021-03-05T02:22:07 < qyx> so I browsed all arduino forums
2021-03-05T02:23:54 < qyx> still no idea wtf is going on
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2021-03-05T02:43:29 < fenugrec> the korad is available at walmart, hahah wtf
2021-03-05T02:44:43 < zyp> karlp, no complaints for what it is, but I'd like a data port and a bit more power :)
2021-03-05T02:48:27 < zyp> and I'd also simply like to have more than one
2021-03-05T02:49:48  * t4nk_freenode notices that zyp has no power and promptly starts bullying him around
2021-03-05T02:50:07 < t4nk_freenode> why are you hiting yourself?1
2021-03-05T02:50:18 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o zyp] by ChanServ
2021-03-05T02:50:19 <@zyp> hmm?
2021-03-05T02:50:21 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-03-05T02:50:26 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o zyp] by ChanServ
2021-03-05T02:50:28 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-03-05T02:52:15 < t4nk_freenode> I printed some funky cable clips.. wanna try and get them all underneath my desk
2021-03-05T02:52:45 < t4nk_freenode> but I have about 967 power outlets
2021-03-05T02:53:20 < t4nk_freenode> really don't know how to organise those
2021-03-05T03:11:39 < englishman> fenugrec, Walmart has a "marketplace" now too
2021-03-05T03:20:15 < bitmask> t4nk_freenode did you see the extruder in reprap? its growing fur!
2021-03-05T03:24:30 < t4nk_freenode> oooh, that's nasty hehe
2021-03-05T03:25:20 < t4nk_freenode> haven't used my printer much lately, but it's eating a lot of dust too
2021-03-05T03:25:43 < bitmask> i think his is mold
2021-03-05T03:27:08 < t4nk_freenode> well... a lot of the filament is suppesedly 'organic', so yeah, might be 
2021-03-05T03:28:55 < t4nk_freenode> in a closed box, nice and warm, in a nice damp basement as it seems
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2021-03-05T03:58:20 < bitmask> maybe I should get a RD6018 to power my MDP-XP :P
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2021-03-05T04:31:09 < karlp> zyp: oh, I have a korad "p" suffix? with a usb connection, super handy
2021-03-05T04:31:53 < karlp> englishman: you have one like what, the korad 3005 or the rd6006?
2021-03-05T04:33:59 < karlp> aright, just got code merged into kicad.
2021-03-05T04:34:04 < karlp> l33t hacker mode
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2021-03-05T04:43:00 < englishman> korad
2021-03-05T04:43:03 < englishman> also with usb
2021-03-05T04:44:00 < englishman> had it maybe 10y now
2021-03-05T04:44:26 < englishman> not that exact model
2021-03-05T04:45:21 < fenugrec> englishman, aah, the marketplace bandwagon. Noone is safe anymore
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2021-03-05T08:43:09 < qyx> that fucking sandisk ultra doesn't respond to ACMD41 as SD card should
2021-03-05T08:43:19 < qyx> it only responds to CMD1 like MMC
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2021-03-05T09:10:36 < jpa-> is it a bad sign when ESD protection diodes come in an ESD bag?
2021-03-05T09:16:52 < Steffanx> Come on give this diodes some privacy, close the bag
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2021-03-05T10:02:31 < jpa-> meh, i must say that the owon XDM2041 is pretty crappy
2021-03-05T10:02:58 < jpa-> noisy measurements, slow autorange
2021-03-05T10:03:11 < jpa-> i guess i got what i paid for :)
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2021-03-05T10:29:23 < Steffanx> Return it to dutchland, jpa- 
2021-03-05T10:31:13 < jpa-> meh, not worth my time trying to get it returned - and it'll do what i need it to do
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2021-03-05T10:57:05 < Steffanx> Heh and I thought your time as worthless jpa- ;)
2021-03-05T10:58:26 < jpa-> :)
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2021-03-05T11:24:27 < ventyl> :>
2021-03-05T11:33:34 < karlp> jpa-: your competition! https://eleshop.eu/catalog/product/view/id/533/s/siglent-isolated-front-end-module/category/379/
2021-03-05T11:34:34 < zyp> but does it protect keyboards?
2021-03-05T11:34:50 < karlp> probably exactly as well as jpa's one does, ie, flawlessly when actually used ;)
2021-03-05T11:35:57 < t4nk_freenode> nice bandwidth
2021-03-05T11:37:15 < karlp> "On many Siglent oscilloscopes it cannot be powered by the USB ports on the scope, because these ports don't supply the required 200mA for this probe" is more interesting
2021-03-05T11:37:39 < karlp> imagine making a usb host port on a mains powered device and not managing to even meet 500mA base power requirements.
2021-03-05T11:37:52 < jpa-> many usb sticks take over 100mA also
2021-03-05T11:38:14 < karlp> exactly, moronic to not even have 200mA available.
2021-03-05T11:38:36 < jpa-> but thanks for the link, this is the other existing device i know about: https://www.tindie.com/products/emcgear/analog-isolator-dc-to-1-mhz-bnc-42kv/
2021-03-05T11:38:40 < karlp> whats the bandwidth on yours again?
2021-03-05T11:39:16 < jpa-> just 500kHz for -3dB; though i'm planning a high freq version also
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2021-03-05T11:39:53 < jpa-> lol @ the amount of typos in that siglent manual
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2021-03-05T11:43:51 < jpa-> funny that siglent has chosen to do 200:1 division internally - kind of means that normal scope probes cannot be used, because most are rated only +-150V or +-300V in 1x mode
2021-03-05T11:44:29 < jpa-> presumably because 600V at 1MHz would make quite a large current in the >50pF coax capacitance
2021-03-05T11:46:23 < karlp> englishman: did you say you had this the other day? https://eleshop.eu/catalog/product/view/id/2569/s/rigol-mso5074/category/82/
2021-03-05T11:46:37 < karlp> or that series at least...
2021-03-05T11:49:10 < jadew> jpa-, would it matter with a 10 MΩ impedance?
2021-03-05T11:49:55 < jadew> ah, you're talking about the coax, sorry
2021-03-05T11:51:59 < jadew> jpa-, is your device ready?
2021-03-05T12:03:06 < oz4ga> wow those MSO5000 scopes are looking nice. specially with the signal analyser for free :)
2021-03-05T12:04:42 < jpa-> jadew: "not yet" :)
2021-03-05T12:06:43 < jpa-> getting rev4 pcbs soon, then re-check the fit of enclosure & order them printed; and i'll have to figure out labeling still; hopefully i'll have first batch of 5 or so to sell in a month
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2021-03-05T12:47:20 < englishman> karlp: 8k series but yeah
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2021-03-05T12:47:55 < englishman> oz4ga: that series has been fully hax'd, so you can buy the cheapest model and unlock the faster one with all the features
2021-03-05T12:50:40 < t4nk_freenode> how much would that cost?
2021-03-05T12:50:47 < t4nk_freenode> the cheapest
2021-03-05T12:51:44 < t4nk_freenode> mmm just saw the MSO5074 link
2021-03-05T12:51:50 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh* ... pricey
2021-03-05T12:52:24 < Steffanx> 900.. is fine
2021-03-05T12:52:29 < karlp> oh, 8k series is even more.
2021-03-05T12:52:46 < karlp> I kinda can justify buying a scope for home now, after blowing uyp my old shitty one :)
2021-03-05T12:52:57 < Steffanx> Oh 8k this is 5k indeed
2021-03-05T12:53:01 < karlp> it was perfectly sufficient for purpose, so I should totally massively over spec it's replacement
2021-03-05T12:53:29 < karlp> englishman: what, mso5k 70Mhz can be turned into 200MHz?
2021-03-05T12:53:55 < oz4ga> that has been done before with older models
2021-03-05T12:54:43 < jpa-> note that to actually get the digital channels, you need the 300 EUR cable for them - AFAIK it is not just a simple cable to the connector, but has preamps inside
2021-03-05T12:55:53 < karlp> oz4ga: yeah, I knew with the older ones, wsan't sure about mso5k
2021-03-05T12:56:28 < englishman> karlp: yeah you can even unlock 2ch -> 4ch if you don't need the extra probes it comes with
2021-03-05T12:56:42 < oz4ga> I stick to my old DSO-2150 and my saleae 16 clone for a little longer
2021-03-05T12:56:55 < jpa-> englishman: what, they put the extra 2 input connectors on 2ch models also? :)
2021-03-05T12:56:56 < karlp> what? they hve all the analog front ends soldered down already?!
2021-03-05T12:57:02 < englishman> apparently yes.
2021-03-05T12:57:05 < jpa-> lols
2021-03-05T12:57:07 < karlp> that sounds super weird.
2021-03-05T12:57:10 < englishman> ask synk
2021-03-05T12:57:30 < karlp> I mena, fuck soldering in my own connectors anyway, I'm a grown up, I'll spend money, but fuck that soundsweird.
2021-03-05T12:58:04 < oz4ga> karlp: look at the 5072. it's 4 input, but only 2 are active
2021-03-05T12:58:07 < englishman> even the 2ghz model is a good deal. comes with jitter analysis, power analysis and 2 1.5g single ended probes
2021-03-05T12:58:16 < jpa-> "supported 2 or 4 analog channels (upgradable)"
2021-03-05T12:58:38 < jpa-> market segmentation at its best
2021-03-05T13:00:39 < oz4ga> much like IBM mainframes. They only build one model, then they active the parts payed for
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2021-03-05T13:14:38 < ventyl> tektronix, or how they call themselves no do that too
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2021-03-05T14:00:06 < zyp> huh, some guy called me on behalf of NXP after I left my phone number there to get access to imx6 docs a few weeks ago
2021-03-05T14:00:46 < Steffanx> Yay
2021-03-05T14:00:47 < zyp> he was all «armv7 is dying, you should consider switching to imx8 to get armv8»
2021-03-05T14:00:49 < Steffanx> The joy
2021-03-05T14:01:02 < jpa-> i downloaded some .STEP file from keystone, now i'm receiving mails every couple of days "we are forwarding your information to a local sales agent"
2021-03-05T14:01:30 < mawk> st has some armv8 zyp right
2021-03-05T14:01:40 < mawk> the m33 ones
2021-03-05T14:01:53 < zyp> not relevant, this is about cortex-a
2021-03-05T14:01:59 < mawk> ah
2021-03-05T14:04:08 < zyp> on one hand, I don't really give a shit whether this stuff is running on v7 or v8, my code is a python userland process and I expect linux to keep supporting both for the foreseeable future
2021-03-05T14:06:26 < mawk> what about the other hand
2021-03-05T14:06:53 < ventyl> beer?
2021-03-05T14:07:12 < Steffanx> Is it that time already?
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2021-03-05T14:08:05 < zyp> and on the other hand the board design is already done
2021-03-05T14:08:25 < mawk> beer is awful
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2021-03-05T14:35:36 < t4nk_freenode> yeah it is
2021-03-05T14:36:31 < t4nk_freenode> but after 8 of them... it's all fine and dandy!
2021-03-05T14:37:00  * t4nk_freenode hasn't had any alkihol in ~10yrs now.
2021-03-05T14:37:41 < jadew> same here, I like my beer non alcoholic
2021-03-05T14:38:57 < t4nk_freenode> as a kid I always tought beer would taste oh so sweet and nice
2021-03-05T14:39:10 < t4nk_freenode> but it tastes just horrible if you ask me
2021-03-05T14:39:36 < Steffanx> Hah
2021-03-05T14:39:45 < Steffanx> You drink coffee t4nk_freenode ?
2021-03-05T14:39:55 < t4nk_freenode> loads and loads
2021-03-05T14:40:03 < t4nk_freenode> make it from milk
2021-03-05T14:40:12 < Steffanx> 😅
2021-03-05T14:40:27 < t4nk_freenode> and cola too
2021-03-05T14:40:40 < t4nk_freenode> I guess you're trying to make the caffeine point?
2021-03-05T14:40:48 < t4nk_freenode> supposed to be bad too
2021-03-05T14:40:51 < Steffanx> Zero suuugaaar?
2021-03-05T14:40:57 < t4nk_freenode> hell no! ;)
2021-03-05T14:44:00 < Steffanx> No tea?
2021-03-05T14:45:31 < t4nk_freenode> in 2010 I had a health spur... stopped smoking, drinking, ate healthy... ran every day...
2021-03-05T14:45:38 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/HAeBX6v my tea mug, nucleo-32 for size
2021-03-05T14:45:45 < t4nk_freenode> stopped using coffee/cola
2021-03-05T14:46:10 < t4nk_freenode> 10months later I was back to smoking, luckily I kept off the booze
2021-03-05T14:46:22 < Steffanx> Smoking... im disappointed 
2021-03-05T14:46:24 < t4nk_freenode> euh, so from time to time I tried drinking tea
2021-03-05T14:46:37 < t4nk_freenode> btw, tea has caffeine too
2021-03-05T14:46:39 < BrainDamage> i cannot find glass mugs with large handles
2021-03-05T14:46:55 < Steffanx> Beer mug :D
2021-03-05T14:47:16 < BrainDamage> they all have this small eyelet which makes me scald my knucklee
2021-03-05T14:47:24 < BrainDamage> ... maybe I should get one
2021-03-05T14:47:56 < karlp> zyp: yeah, there was  an article on lwn.net from arnd bergmann about the future of armv7-a being really unclear.
2021-03-05T14:48:37 < zyp> yaeh?
2021-03-05T14:49:14 < karlp> tell me what went wrong here https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HlSIV to make gettimeofday abort on esp32 and I'll find the article... code here: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/74zkD
2021-03-05T14:49:42 < karlp> https://lwn.net/Articles/838807/
2021-03-05T14:49:45 < t4nk_freenode> zyp, ... so a black pill actually has better i/o performance than f407... kewl
2021-03-05T14:51:01 < BrainDamage> I kind of hate esp32 indirectly, it has enable a crapton of cheap wifi connected things
2021-03-05T14:51:30  * karlp isn't even using wifi on it :)
2021-03-05T14:51:50 < zyp> karlp, https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/blob/master/components/freertos/queue.c#L1447
2021-03-05T14:52:03 < zyp> you're calling it before starting scheduler
2021-03-05T14:52:37 < zyp> or is app_main() a task?
2021-03-05T14:52:38 < karlp> oh, that makes sense. I thought it had already been started by the esp main behind the scenes.
2021-03-05T14:52:55 < karlp> I _thought_ app main was a task provided to me. but I guess I should check further
2021-03-05T14:53:08 < karlp> I oculd use vTaskDelay() in both tasks just fine though, as long as I dont use gettimeofday()
2021-03-05T14:59:16 < zyp> hmm, guess it is, idk what's up then
2021-03-05T15:00:32 < karlp> yeah, was _not_ what I wanted to be wsating time on :)
2021-03-05T15:00:43 < karlp> but feels like it might indicate a more fundamental problem Ishoujld solve first
2021-03-05T15:01:28 < fenugrec> like why are you using esp32 in the first place ? heh
2021-03-05T15:02:38 < t4nk_freenode> mmmm I bought a couple of those wroom32-thingies, and I think I did it because I thought they run at sth like 240MHz
2021-03-05T15:02:56 < t4nk_freenode> so for the 'extra power'
2021-03-05T15:03:22 < t4nk_freenode> at least that was my reasoning
2021-03-05T15:03:28 < karlp> fenugrec:cheap bluetooth with adc and cpu?
2021-03-05T15:03:35 < karlp> wifi is a bonus might use later,
2021-03-05T15:03:48 < karlp> I'm not really expecting to end with the esp32, but it's nominally "easy" to get started
2021-03-05T15:26:21 < mawk> t4nk_freenode: get H7
2021-03-05T15:27:59 < t4nk_freenode> what's that, mawk ... sth stronger than caffeine, or some kind of controller?
2021-03-05T15:28:40 < t4nk_freenode> I see cortex m7
2021-03-05T15:29:24 < karlp> man, this vscode completion is still utter garbage
2021-03-05T15:31:25 < mawk> --enable-blink-features --disable-blink-features
2021-03-05T15:31:27 < mawk> oops
2021-03-05T15:31:29 < mawk> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32h7-series.html
2021-03-05T15:34:39 < t4nk_freenode> nice, mawk ... already browsing Ali for a board ;)
2021-03-05T15:35:28 < t4nk_freenode> although... here we go again: Up to 136 fast I/Os up to 84 MHz :((
2021-03-05T15:36:19 < t4nk_freenode> hang on, that was from f407
2021-03-05T15:40:35 < t4nk_freenode> STM32H750VBT6 is a board that's relatively cheap, but info on i/o speed is obscured methinks
2021-03-05T15:40:58 < zyp> i/o speed? wat
2021-03-05T15:41:25 < t4nk_freenode> max i/o speed
2021-03-05T15:41:36 < t4nk_freenode> might it be 240MHz on that board?
2021-03-05T15:41:43 < t4nk_freenode> it's not specified 
2021-03-05T15:41:54 < zyp> measured how?
2021-03-05T15:42:04 < zyp> and for what purpose?
2021-03-05T15:42:31 < t4nk_freenode> by running a loop, flipflopping 2 pin, and then connecting an osc( if I had one)
2021-03-05T15:42:56 < t4nk_freenode> flipflopping 1 pin, ofcourse :)
2021-03-05T15:43:29 < t4nk_freenode> or perhaps to build a logic ana
2021-03-05T15:43:50 < karlp> for comparing with an avr...
2021-03-05T15:43:56 < zyp> what is this supposed to achieve?
2021-03-05T15:43:56 < karlp> no other reason for it
2021-03-05T15:44:04 < t4nk_freenode> or, to appeal to you imagination: build a USB 3 protocol sniffer ;)
2021-03-05T15:45:03 < zyp> you're drunk, go home
2021-03-05T15:45:24 < t4nk_freenode> I hope that was for karlp?
2021-03-05T15:46:29 < zyp> you're not gonna sniff usb3 without a serdes receiver, it's a couple order of magnitudes faster than what you can reasonably expect to bitbang on a microcontroller
2021-03-05T15:47:18 < fenugrec> ^ orders of magnitude. Not to mention differential
2021-03-05T15:47:47 < t4nk_freenode> yes, zyp, I suspected such an answer... but I had hoped you would understand what I meant
2021-03-05T15:47:50 < mawk> t4nk_freenode: the gpio speed is 1/2 clock speed iirc
2021-03-05T15:48:02 < mawk> that's your "I/O speed" I guess
2021-03-05T15:48:18 < zyp> you're missing my point
2021-03-05T15:48:45 < t4nk_freenode> we've talked about this, remember, with the fpga... back then you seemed to agree with me when I said I craved faster controllable io
2021-03-05T15:49:13 < mawk> are you ex alcoholic t4nk_freenode ?
2021-03-05T15:49:44 < mawk> you said you haven't drank in 10 years
2021-03-05T15:49:46 < t4nk_freenode> lol, I quit indeed, but not out of necessity.. or court order .. just because I wanted to 
2021-03-05T15:50:33 < zyp> the IO buffers themselves have pretty clearly defined limits, but if you're going to bitbang it, the bottleneck is probably gonna be the cpu anyway
2021-03-05T15:52:31 < mawk> t4nk_freenode: if you want a h7 board get nucleo 144 I guess
2021-03-05T15:52:32 < mawk> you're not poor
2021-03-05T15:52:40 < mawk> but first you need a compelling reason to get it
2021-03-05T15:52:45 < mawk> otherwise it's an expensive paperweight
2021-03-05T15:53:26 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, zyp, I tend to forget that each instruction slashes into the speed
2021-03-05T15:53:28 < mawk> if you just wanted cheap bt and adc why not nordic stuff karlp 
2021-03-05T15:53:30 < jpa-> t4nk_freenode: i've made some experiments, STM32H7 DCMI can manage 100Mword/s quite comfortably up to 14 bit bus width; QSPI can manage 200Mbyte/s but max 4GB at a time
2021-03-05T15:54:03 < jpa-> even USB2 sniffer is not easily possible
2021-03-05T15:54:08 < t4nk_freenode> heh
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2021-03-05T15:55:02 < zyp> jpa-, fast enough to receive ULPI :)
2021-03-05T15:55:13 < mawk> for instance I got a h7 board for a perfectly good reason, I wanted to expand my collection of stm32 boards
2021-03-05T15:55:16 < mawk> but I do nothing with it
2021-03-05T15:55:19 < jpa-> zyp: yeah :)
2021-03-05T15:55:33 < zyp> I don't think you'd do a USB2 sniffer without an ULPI PHY anyway
2021-03-05T15:55:39 < jpa-> true
2021-03-05T15:55:46 < zyp> HS PHY layer is kinda ugly
2021-03-05T15:56:28 < t4nk_freenode> what was the term again for the special fast i/o port on an fpga?
2021-03-05T15:56:38 < karlp> mawk: that's on the desk too, just getting a basic stub, never used esp32 or nrf or silabs 
2021-03-05T15:56:43 < karlp> doing that eval right now.
2021-03-05T15:56:47 < mawk> I see
2021-03-05T15:57:00 < zyp> I looked at doing an analog tap/buffer for HS, but eh
2021-03-05T15:57:00 < karlp> nrf52 at least doesn't look like it will be low power enough for the adc, but we'll see.
2021-03-05T16:02:27 < karlp> heh, add 10ms delay to main task before calling gettimeofday(), no problem...
2021-03-05T16:02:42  * karlp checks to see if there's some method ot poll to see if the rtos is _actually_ ready
2021-03-05T16:03:02 < karlp> vscode can't even fucking complete struct members, wtf.
2021-03-05T16:04:27 < karlp> click on the "tv" here in the printf line https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MoGgj.png and it jumps into a member of some unrelated, unimported struct that's called tv.
2021-03-05T16:05:02 < mawk> yeah it's not really an IDE I guess, it's a "smart" text editor
2021-03-05T16:05:18 < mawk> unless you pack it with 4380943 handpicked plugins
2021-03-05T16:05:27 < jpa-> "works for me"
2021-03-05T16:06:09 < karlp> yeah, I don't know what' smissing, there's no diags for it.
2021-03-05T16:06:27 < karlp> thought I'd try it out with something from scratch, but... something's really not right, this can't be how people work :)
2021-03-05T16:06:59 < jpa-> view -> output and selecting the various views from the top right corner dropdown can reveal something
2021-03-05T16:11:00 < mawk> I ordered brain candy to become like the Limitless guy, it's just been delivered
2021-03-05T16:11:04 < mawk> like B1 vitamin derivatives and so on
2021-03-05T16:11:09 < mawk> I should become the next einstein
2021-03-05T16:11:34 < t4nk_freenode> thnx for the specific info btw, jpa- 
2021-03-05T16:11:58 < mawk> if you're poor I can give you the H7 board I have t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-05T16:12:02 < mawk> you're in NL right
2021-03-05T16:12:20 < t4nk_freenode> I am
2021-03-05T16:13:43 < t4nk_freenode> well, I'm most certainly not rich, not at all even, but I could buy one if I wanted though
2021-03-05T16:16:11 < jpa-> flywiring high-speed signals to generic devboard is not going to work out very well in any case
2021-03-05T16:16:32 < t4nk_freenode> lol, I sort of understand what you mean by that ;)
2021-03-05T16:17:18 < zyp> jpa-, that's the main reason I made a dedicated board for parallel trace :)
2021-03-05T16:28:48 < mawk> the eink screen behaves weirdly under the sun
2021-03-05T16:28:52 < mawk> it cannot refresh correctly
2021-03-05T16:29:03 < mawk> but I guess that was expected they said it in the documentation
2021-03-05T16:30:57 < zyp> karlp, interesting article
2021-03-05T16:31:30 < zyp> sounds to me like we can still expect cortex-a7 to stick around for quite a while though
2021-03-05T16:32:53 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-03-05T16:55:40 < Laurenceb> https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html
2021-03-05T16:57:51 < Laurenceb> https://dramatica.online/thumb.php?f=Stallman-copypasta.jpg&width=300
2021-03-05T16:59:24 < Laurenceb> https://dramatica.online/images/3/30/Naivestallman.jpg
2021-03-05T17:01:24 < Steffanx> Go back to your zoom meeting Laurenceb 
2021-03-05T17:13:18 < Laurenceb> my "evil science" page got deleted :(
2021-03-05T17:13:28 < Laurenceb> wrote that when I was bored in IT class
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2021-03-05T17:35:03 < Steffanx> You had an it class Laurenceb ?
2021-03-05T17:35:27 < Steffanx> Did they skip "how to use the spacebar" ?
2021-03-05T17:39:05 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2021-03-05T17:39:38 < Laurenceb> we used to shitpost on netmeeting and edit encyclopedia dramatica all class
2021-03-05T17:40:05 < Laurenceb> we also made a "virus" in visual basic that emulated the teachers login screen
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2021-03-05T17:51:39 < karlp> man, I think esp can go in the bin right now.  this isn't merged yet, and you would have to do it all by hand.
2021-03-05T17:51:46 < karlp> so much for a framework: https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf/pull/1991
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2021-03-05T18:08:12 < fenugrec> cubists, is there a clean way to override / hook after the startup code and before (or in) SystemInit ? sure I can modify the stock startup_xyz.s file, just want something more elegant
2021-03-05T18:10:27 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-03-05T18:35:04 < fenugrec> Or some other Neat Trick to taint the stack to measure usage stats
2021-03-05T18:37:56 < Laurenceb> how will covid-19 recover from this?
2021-03-05T18:37:59 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1150F/production/_117172907_1cd54384-05d6-4cc8-bb19-2527f2ecd510.jpg
2021-03-05T18:45:10 < qyx> mawk: huh, does it have problem with the light itself?
2021-03-05T18:45:16 < qyx> or UV? heat?
2021-03-05T19:18:20 < jpa-> probably UV causes more leakage, either in the thin film transistors or in the display material itself
2021-03-05T19:43:49 < qyx> oh looks like karlp-land is the ideal place for seismic accel testing now
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2021-03-05T20:00:47 < karlp> yeah, it's getting a bit tiresome
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2021-03-05T20:03:38 < basdb> do the disco boards allow uart over usb via virtual com port for easy debugging? e.g. stm32f0 disco board, etc. have a separate STLink v2 programmer as well which the documentation makes a vague remark about this feature
2021-03-05T20:09:46 < englishman> yeah most of them, maybe all. it's part of st-link v2.1
2021-03-05T20:14:04 < basdb> thanks englishman, can always count on you
2021-03-05T20:16:51 < englishman> bold statement, but you're welcome
2021-03-05T20:17:57 < jpa-> the boards that support it usually have a RX/TX header next to the st-link header
2021-03-05T20:18:53 < jpa-> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/b6/61/b6b661453b8da20a06401ef4e20f6ca7.jpg   like here above the blue button
2021-03-05T20:33:41 < fenugrec> %*(&^*% again with cubeide incapable of single-stepping opcodes, how hard can this bwe
2021-03-05T20:36:28 < Steffanx> Grab the ozone 
2021-03-05T20:39:00 < Steffanx> t4nk_freenode: does have a job right? But not in the electronic/embedded world I guess?
2021-03-05T20:39:54 < Steffanx> Or are you full time doler?
2021-03-05T21:05:04 < fenugrec> oh, I can't even single-step anything. Shit's just jumping around randomly. 
2021-03-05T21:06:21 < Steffanx> Reminds me of this work project, someone decided to use the cube³ and with this target and code size it would make GDB crash all  the time. Great fun
2021-03-05T21:06:40 < fenugrec> I should put 1$ in a jar every time I swear at this
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2021-03-05T21:07:09 < Steffanx> It would just stop the debugging session. And then you find the right output window with the gdb error message 
2021-03-05T21:07:39 < fenugrec> right now I think I would mind that bug less
2021-03-05T21:07:51 < Steffanx> After spending too much time of trying to see why it stops all the time
2021-03-05T21:08:09 < Steffanx> No, because with this bug you cannot debug at all :P
2021-03-05T21:08:18 < Steffanx> >>> ozone :D
2021-03-05T21:09:06 < fenugrec> ok how much do I need to swear before I can afford proper tools
2021-03-05T21:09:40 < fenugrec> also, why does jlink have the monopoly on non-shitty gear
2021-03-05T21:09:45 < Steffanx> Ozone is free
2021-03-05T21:10:01 < Steffanx> Jlink on nucleo/discovery is free
2021-03-05T21:10:14 < fenugrec> oo
2021-03-05T21:10:32 < Steffanx> Fake your university address and get an edu jlink
2021-03-05T21:10:41 < Steffanx> Go to aliexpress
2021-03-05T21:10:45 < Steffanx> Sooo many options 
2021-03-05T21:10:51 < Steffanx> Or learn to raw gdb 
2021-03-05T21:10:53 < fenugrec> I think I still have a uni email yea
2021-03-05T21:11:13 < fenugrec> raw gdb : yeah tried that in the cubeide gdb console, same issue.
2021-03-05T21:11:56 < fenugrec> pc=800320a . ni. pc=800321e.
2021-03-05T21:12:28 < Steffanx> Does the cube even have live variable watch update?
2021-03-05T21:12:37 < fenugrec> unclear
2021-03-05T21:12:51 < Steffanx> Ozone does. Love it. Especially to plot the data and get a quick view on data
2021-03-05T21:12:54 < fenugrec> aka "sometimes it looks like yes, but don't rely on it"
2021-03-05T21:13:21 < fenugrec> it's sometimes not even updating the General Registers box after hitting a bp
2021-03-05T21:15:46 < Steffanx> Just stay away from the segger IDE. It's FUCKING AWFUL
2021-03-05T21:15:50 < fenugrec> guh I need to take a walk. Leaving that ozone tab open for when I come back.
2021-03-05T21:16:18 < mawk> either light or UV I think qyx 
2021-03-05T21:16:24 < Steffanx> By the time you installed ozone segger already released 3 new versions
2021-03-05T21:16:56 < mawk> qyx: maybe temperature though, eink is highly temperature dependant as the screen has builtin temperature sensor and different refresh profiles depending on temperature
2021-03-05T21:17:03 < mawk> but docs say "screen does not update under direct sunlight"
2021-03-05T21:28:20 < Steffanx> heh
2021-03-05T21:28:41 < oz4ga> Segger IDE is a crippled version of CrossWorks. CrossWorks is quite nice
2021-03-05T21:29:33 < Steffanx> and mucho $$$$
2021-03-05T21:29:51 < oz4ga> now that bad 150$ for a personal license
2021-03-05T21:29:56 < oz4ga> not even
2021-03-05T21:29:57 < Steffanx> segger ide isnt entirely free either
2021-03-05T21:30:30 < oz4ga> I like crossworks. I have been using it for many years
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2021-03-05T21:51:36 < mawk> we use SW4STM32 at work
2021-03-05T21:51:44 < mawk> it's just eklipse in the ned
2021-03-05T21:51:46 < mawk> end
2021-03-05T22:00:10 < oz4ga> sw4 sucks
2021-03-05T22:03:13 < oz4ga> IMHO most eclipse based IDE sucks.
2021-03-05T22:04:14 < qyx> mawk: quite a showstopper for many applications
2021-03-05T22:17:46 < Steffanx> lol why would you use that shit mawk 
2021-03-05T22:21:48 < oz4ga> you could at least use true studio
2021-03-05T22:22:02 < Steffanx> you mean cubeide.
2021-03-05T22:22:15 < Steffanx> since truestudio is dead.
2021-03-05T22:22:16 < oz4ga> yes. sry old habbit
2021-03-05T22:22:32 < mawk> because it's what colleagues were using before Steffanx 
2021-03-05T22:22:35 < mawk> so IDE is configured for it
2021-03-05T22:22:36 < oz4ga> cubeide is whats left of true studio
2021-03-05T22:22:39 < mawk> for our application
2021-03-05T22:22:50 < Steffanx> import into cubeide
2021-03-05T22:22:51 < Steffanx> buld
2021-03-05T22:22:54 < mawk> yeah qyx , probably higher end screens aren't like that
2021-03-05T22:22:54 < Steffanx> build
2021-03-05T22:22:55 < Steffanx> run.
2021-03-05T22:22:56 < Steffanx> done
2021-03-05T22:22:58 < mawk> maybe it's specific to color, even
2021-03-05T22:23:16 < mawk> does it support sw4stm32 project files Steffanx ??¿¿
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2021-03-05T22:24:26 < Steffanx> it has an option to import ac6 system workbench projects
2021-03-05T22:24:38 < Steffanx> never tried it.
2021-03-05T22:31:09 < mawk> a
2021-03-05T22:31:13 < mawk> we could try it then
2021-03-05T22:31:19 < mawk> anyway it's all eclipse in the end
2021-03-05T22:31:25 < mawk> just the logo is changing
2021-03-05T22:40:53 < Steffanx> If you say so
2021-03-05T22:49:23 < fenugrec> I tried to export exactly one truestudio into cubeide and it failed silently
2021-03-05T22:50:58 < fenugrec> *import
2021-03-05T23:27:54 < fenugrec> How on earth is jlink-on-stlink firmware so insanely faster than stock stlink... ST should be ashamed
2021-03-05T23:29:02 < Steffanx> lol
2021-03-05T23:29:29 < Steffanx> just smarter programming routines... like only updating changes etc?
2021-03-05T23:29:41 < fenugrec> I mean stepping, reading vars, etc
2021-03-05T23:29:54 < Steffanx> ah
2021-03-05T23:30:21 < fenugrec> yeah reflashing only the changes, that's baby stuff - all my flash pages change anyway so it "shouldn't" make a huge difference
2021-03-05T23:31:15 < fenugrec> ST is probably just giving a break to segger etc... wouldn't be fair if ST made the best debugger, eh
2021-03-05T23:35:51 < Steffanx> Except that segger fw still not runs on the stink v3
2021-03-05T23:37:48 < fenugrec> aah, my level of stink is only still v2
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2021-03-05T23:52:13 < mawk> not v2.1 fenugrec ?
2021-03-05T23:52:21 < mawk> I thought the firmware is only for the 2.1
2021-03-05T23:52:23 < mawk> on nucleos
2021-03-05T23:52:35 < oz4ga> jlink only run on disco and nucleo embedded devices. st link v2 & v2.1
2021-03-05T23:53:47 < englishman> if you flash a stlink with 2.1 the segger tool will install on it iirc
2021-03-05T23:54:07 < englishman> but then you will be violating the ToS and are basically a terrorist
2021-03-05T23:55:02 < fenugrec> mawk, I'm using the one on a disco board, those are /V2
2021-03-05T23:56:16 < fenugrec> an F072disco bought sometime in 2015, maybe newer ones are 2.1, no clue
2021-03-05T23:58:54 < oz4ga> a JLINK v9 with full feature set costs less that 15$ on aliexpress
--- Day changed Sat Mar 06 2021
2021-03-06T00:00:37 < oz4ga> fully upgradeable
2021-03-06T00:01:59 < mawk> it's a fake oz4ga 
2021-03-06T00:02:00 < mawk> right
2021-03-06T00:02:04 < mawk> so it's not a jlink
2021-03-06T00:02:07 < mawk> it's a chinlink
2021-03-06T00:02:09 < oz4ga> you don't say ;)
2021-03-06T00:02:25 < oz4ga> it walks like a duck and quack like a duck
2021-03-06T00:02:25 < mawk> well
2021-03-06T00:02:34 < mawk> get a jlink edu mini, it's $15 too
2021-03-06T00:02:37 < mawk> and it's not a horrible fake
2021-03-06T00:02:44 < karlp> well, got single channel adc dma working, but, man, this is the best freertos implementation ever, not even a microsecond of jitter, and someone's clearly doing tricks with vTaskDelay, not even delayUntil... https://paste.jvnv.net/view/O0lxO
2021-03-06T00:02:52 < zyp> blackmagic hosted seems kinda decent
2021-03-06T00:03:12 < mawk> it superficially quacks like a duck oz4ga but there probably are lots of things you don't get
2021-03-06T00:03:19 < zyp> I've used it a bit at work with the g4 nucleo with stlink v3
2021-03-06T00:03:25 < t4nk_freenode> (those chinamen who copied f103... even fixed the bugs in the original ;)
2021-03-06T00:03:28 < mawk> like tolerance to large vcc amplitude, or virtual com port
2021-03-06T00:03:30 < mawk> stuff like that
2021-03-06T00:03:44 < mawk> like the gd32 one t4nk_freenode ?
2021-03-06T00:03:48 -!- circuit [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-03-06T00:03:55 < mawk> it's a good quality company I guess
2021-03-06T00:03:59 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, sth like that.. or cks
2021-03-06T00:05:12 < oz4ga> mawk: so far both my chinesium V8 and V9 has been quacking superfically or not well enough for years
2021-03-06T00:06:59 < karlp> my china v8 never worked,
2021-03-06T00:07:01 < karlp> so there's that...
2021-03-06T00:07:11 < oz4ga> and they are faster thant my stlinks both clones and original
2021-03-06T00:07:28 < karlp> and it only comes with a shitty jumbo 20 pin jtag connector :)
2021-03-06T00:08:11 < oz4ga> like the original. There are adapters
2021-03-06T00:09:16 < oz4ga> The v8 has been known to some how "loose" the FW / brick it self
2021-03-06T00:11:00 < karlp> yeah, and i tried some recoveris, and... fuck it. stlink hasalways been enough for me.
2021-03-06T00:11:47 < oz4ga> yeah they are good work horses, but no Ozone :/
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2021-03-06T00:18:21 < Steffanx> Mine, not sure if v9 or 10 needs a dll patch or it'll complain about faulty hw all the time. It works without though 
2021-03-06T00:22:07 < oz4ga> my chinesium V7 does that to. it's an USB pen thingy. My V8 and V9 hasn't done that complaining so far
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2021-03-06T01:02:47 < zyp> ls
2021-03-06T01:02:54 < zyp> (wrong window)
2021-03-06T01:02:59 < karlp> secret-dockuments.txt
2021-03-06T01:03:12 < zyp> cat sec<tab>
2021-03-06T01:03:37 < karlp> I LUV CATZ
2021-03-06T01:03:45 < karlp> TIME COP's REAL NAME IS GARY!
2021-03-06T01:04:02 < karlp> ASK JLY FOR THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT!
2021-03-06T01:04:24 < karlp> --==[[[this file l33ched from 24345kjzxvyhkljdgsl.l33t]]==--
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2021-03-06T01:10:08 < Steffanx> Lol karlp 
2021-03-06T01:24:50 < karlp> is there an easy way in excel to chart this as three lines, one for the coluimnmarked "0", one for "3" and one for "6" ? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/NWMei
2021-03-06T01:24:57 < karlp> I feel like it should be easy, but...
2021-03-06T01:35:46  * karlp forks another fucking project with bugs in it.
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2021-03-06T02:19:38 < t4nk_freenode> care for a bet, Steffanx?
2021-03-06T02:19:45 < t4nk_freenode> Bezorgtijd: vandaag tussen 15:30 en 18:00 Zending is ontvangen door PostNL 
2021-03-06T02:19:54 < t4nk_freenode> I say it won't happen
2021-03-06T02:20:19 < Steffanx> I care for my bed 
2021-03-06T02:20:44 < t4nk_freenode> roght now all I care for is that I didn't arouse that care within you :|
2021-03-06T02:21:50 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I care for my bed too... but it won't happen just yet. And so, tomorrow MORNING at 10am( when the postman will actually arrive...) I'll still be in bed
2021-03-06T02:49:09 < vegii> holy shit, there are SO MANY chips to choose from
2021-03-06T02:49:42 < vegii> and probably most of them are currently out of stock
2021-03-06T02:52:13 < oz4ga> why paste.jvnv.net and no waifupaste.moe ?
2021-03-06T02:57:04 < vegii> hmmmmmm... I gues nobody says stm8 is NRND
2021-03-06T02:57:12 < vegii> *guess
2021-03-06T03:00:58 < vegii> stm32 starts at like 32k flash lol
2021-03-06T03:01:27 < vegii> this gadget only needs like... 1k?
2021-03-06T03:02:09 < vegii> but I wanna look into the option of having an always on 7-seg LCD display
2021-03-06T03:13:43 < t4nk_freenode> pick a PIC?
2021-03-06T03:38:15 < oz4ga> compare it to attiny11
2021-03-06T03:52:45 < oz4ga> the 7 seg led will consume more power than the muc
2021-03-06T03:54:06 < oz4ga> liquid crystal yes but there are low power options for the muc
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2021-03-06T04:15:11 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-03-06T04:17:24 < kakium69> what is happening in the stock markets?
2021-03-06T04:17:35 < kakium69> bubble 2.0 bursting?
2021-03-06T04:43:54 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@250.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-03-06T04:49:56 < qyx> vegii: L053 for segmented displays?
2021-03-06T04:50:31 < qyx> but read errata first if you intend to use I2C
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2021-03-06T05:19:59 < karlp> oz4ga: because waifu doesn't actyually let you, you know, _paste_
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2021-03-06T05:52:17 < oz4ga> /tt
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2021-03-06T07:12:31 < 32NAANUII> Anyone have a recommendation for a LiPo battery charger with I2C programmable charge current?
2021-03-06T07:18:03 < qyx> ti.com, see the BQ* family
2021-03-06T07:18:14 < qyx> there are some, single cell or multi cell
2021-03-06T07:18:51 < qyx> and both pin-strap settable and I2C/SMBus configurable
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2021-03-06T08:38:38 < jpa-> 32NAANUII: i put MAX77975 into one thing i'm designing; haven't tried the proto yet, but it's a pretty nice chip - charging current up to several amperes, and it can also work as boost to get higher voltage out of battery
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2021-03-06T14:02:57 < vegii> qyx: nah, no i2c
2021-03-06T14:03:07 < vegii> 7-seg type of LCD
2021-03-06T14:03:24 < vegii> but I think it might actually be like 9 segments
2021-03-06T14:04:54 < vegii> no way I'm getting a custom lcd for a prototype, so I found a wrist watch with an interesting lcd and I'm gonna reverse engineer it
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2021-03-06T14:15:15 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2021-03-06T14:15:33 -!- Steffanx changed the topic of ##stm32 to: STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | https://www.adobe.com/ca/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
2021-03-06T14:15:49 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2021-03-06T14:19:45 < karlp> Steffanx: what?
2021-03-06T14:19:50 < karlp> why the adobe link?
2021-03-06T14:20:01 < Steffanx> That's some englishman joke.
2021-03-06T14:20:16 < Steffanx> but i removed the waifupost because... you know why
2021-03-06T14:21:02 < karlp> oh, misread what had changed
2021-03-06T14:21:09 < karlp> I mean, the adobe thing's funny, but...
2021-03-06T14:21:16 < karlp> anyway, was playing on godbolt...
2021-03-06T14:21:34 < karlp> turns out there's no reason to not use uitn8_t args and things now, i can't seem to make it cause unnecessary masking
2021-03-06T14:22:26 < jadew> you'll have to typedef uint8_t uitn8_t; tho
2021-03-06T14:23:07  * karlp laughs
2021-03-06T14:25:19 < karlp> I mena, some older compilers at -O0 will do it,
2021-03-06T14:25:26 < karlp> but... nothing relevant
2021-03-06T14:38:46 < karlp> heh, msp430 gcc "stdint.h, no such file"
2021-03-06T14:39:53 < aandrew> is iar really "that much better" than gcc for arm? I thought gcc's output was pretty decent 
2021-03-06T14:40:15 < karlp> I would be highly suspicious of any claims these days.
2021-03-06T14:40:38 < karlp> anywya, this sort of thing, preshifted vs unshifted, to avoid "large valued immediate values" is... not a thing to care about, unless you're on some old avr or 6502... https://godbolt.org/z/Gr5brz
2021-03-06T14:40:59 < karlp> there's an early version of arm64 gcc that does it badly, but ~everythign else is also "just doesn't matter"
2021-03-06T14:41:20 < karlp> there's probably still places where smaller immediates might help, at least from my memory of ISAs, but guess I'm wrong.
2021-03-06T14:41:42 < vegii> stm8l152 vs stm32l053 is like $1 vs $2
2021-03-06T14:42:16 < aandrew> waifupost?
2021-03-06T14:43:30 < vegii> >The liquid crystal display drives up to 4 common terminals and up to 28 segment terminals
2021-03-06T14:43:30 < vegii> to drive up to 112 pixels
2021-03-06T14:44:16 < vegii> how am I supposed to drive a 7-digit 8-segment with this?
2021-03-06T14:44:29 < vegii> write to 2 segments at once?
2021-03-06T14:44:36 < vegii> I mean digits
2021-03-06T14:45:33 < vegii> wire every 2 commons together...
2021-03-06T14:46:00 < vegii> guess I'll ask in ##electronics
2021-03-06T14:46:48 < aandrew> vegii: one thing I've not done in all of my electronics work is drive bare LCDs
2021-03-06T14:46:57 < aandrew> there's always been a controller in the middle
2021-03-06T14:47:15 < qyx> you are supposed to find a LCD with the required topology
2021-03-06T14:47:43 < qyx> and a 7 digit LCD will not have 7 COM inputs
2021-03-06T14:48:40 < vegii> they'll have 1 COM per digit, right?
2021-03-06T14:48:44 < qyx> no
2021-03-06T14:49:05 < qyx> I mean, usually
2021-03-06T14:49:54 < vegii> what's it like then?
2021-03-06T14:51:15 < aandrew> https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack ok that is kind of cool
2021-03-06T14:51:58 < qyx> vegii: see this for example https://www.tme.eu/Document/4c9c40cca7ec0aea5d3730b6029529c5/DE133.pdf
2021-03-06T14:52:47 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/de301-tu-30_6.35-5/digitalne-lcd-displeje/display-elektronik/de-301-tu-30-6-35-5-volt/
2021-03-06T14:52:50 < qyx> this is the one I used
2021-03-06T14:53:13 < qyx> it has 4 COMs
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2021-03-06T15:09:30 < jadew> starcraft 2 map: https://imgur.com/a/cejUNbg
2021-03-06T15:19:55 < t4nk_freenode> I thought starcraft II was older than 2010
2021-03-06T15:20:29 < t4nk_freenode> ah, first one in 1998
2021-03-06T15:29:26 < t4nk_freenode> those games were always too complex for me ;)
2021-03-06T15:30:14 < t4nk_freenode> I liked warcraft 2&3, but alas.. wasted on me
2021-03-06T15:35:47 < t4nk_freenode> heh, I'm gonna receive 2 metres of lead screw today... and a whole litre of the purest alkihol; what more could a man ask for.
2021-03-06T15:41:34 < Steffanx> dont die t4nk_freenode, whatever youre up to
2021-03-06T16:01:10 < Steffanx> so whats the plan t4nk_freenode ?
2021-03-06T16:06:44 < t4nk_freenode> looking to design some cnc machine
2021-03-06T16:07:13 < Steffanx> aha
2021-03-06T16:07:15 < t4nk_freenode> been gathering materials over time
2021-03-06T16:07:56 < Steffanx> like a serious one or ..?
2021-03-06T16:09:35 < t4nk_freenode> at least the best I can do, hope to be able to do wood and some light metals
2021-03-06T16:10:38 < Steffanx> I still have to do some work on mine... mainly getting the spindle perpendicular to the base.
2021-03-06T16:10:43 < Steffanx> but im not sure yet how i want to do that
2021-03-06T16:10:56 < mawk> and where do you position the schmilblick?
2021-03-06T16:11:19 < Steffanx> french humor..
2021-03-06T16:11:25 < mawk> :(
2021-03-06T16:14:08 < t4nk_freenode> made a little cnc from dvd steppers for fun once, but I made use of the driver chips that were already in there, driven by a pic. stuck it together with a glue gun. used a pen at first, but later I also attached a flexible shaft ... though it was just a joke, the results stunned me
2021-03-06T16:14:44 < t4nk_freenode> but since I got this 3d printer.. my potential for constructing things has gone up quite a bit
2021-03-06T16:14:54 < t4nk_freenode> and I feel like having another go at it
2021-03-06T16:14:56 < karlp> aandrew: neat, that openhaystack is the sort of stuff most of us don't even get to think about doing.
2021-03-06T16:15:19 < karlp> amazing the sorts of applications you can build when you can just deploy sw to like a billion fucking devies around the world for you.
2021-03-06T16:16:06 < karlp> also, fantastic for competition.....
2021-03-06T16:16:36 < karlp> gooooood luck joining the market when the incumbent has that sort of service ecosystem to go with the products.
2021-03-06T16:16:46 < t4nk_freenode> did you design yours yourself, Steffanx? or were you following some design? probably your own ey
2021-03-06T16:17:14 < t4nk_freenode> and what kind of spindle are you using btw?
2021-03-06T16:17:33 < t4nk_freenode> I think I'll start out with just a dremel
2021-03-06T16:18:59 < BrainDamage> i feel like such dragnet has strong potential for abuse
2021-03-06T16:19:51 < BrainDamage> eg you could force a device to start sending its beacons, and wouldn't need listeners, you'd have one ~errywhere
2021-03-06T16:20:07 < BrainDamage> it's the data exfiltrator's dream
2021-03-06T16:21:12 < Steffanx> for now a makita rt0700c t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-06T16:21:24 < Steffanx> and yeah i put something together myself
2021-03-06T16:22:27 < t4nk_freenode> is it noisy?
2021-03-06T16:23:43 < Steffanx> kinda
2021-03-06T16:24:04 < t4nk_freenode> I reckon a dremel will be awful too
2021-03-06T16:24:26 < Steffanx> i bet the makita router is more noisy.
2021-03-06T16:24:44 < Steffanx> i use ear protection when im near it.
2021-03-06T16:25:59 < t4nk_freenode> watching a video, with an IDIOT who thinks playing loud music is more important than letting us register the sound the makita makes
2021-03-06T16:28:37 < Steffanx> it might actually be the cutting that is more noisy in the end
2021-03-06T16:30:58 < aandrew> karlp: exactly
2021-03-06T16:36:12 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, ... I just found your online video review! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFr5Bbt1ziw though this guy's communicational skills are quite a bit more advanced than yours
2021-03-06T16:36:41 < t4nk_freenode> apparently the thing cuts through flesh pretty neatly too
2021-03-06T16:40:03 < Steffanx> i bet it does
2021-03-06T16:40:43 < Steffanx> Its all very noisy, the spindle, the cutting, the vacuum..
2021-03-06T16:40:50 < Steffanx> > ear protection
2021-03-06T16:47:40 < t4nk_freenode> at the risk of boring you ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgiHm-Al4oI I'd like to be able to do projects like this... just stunning
2021-03-06T16:48:01 < t4nk_freenode> I would not build a bass guitar though :)
2021-03-06T16:54:25 < t4nk_freenode> fast nachbearbeitungsfrei
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2021-03-06T17:13:28 < mawk> arbeitmachtsfrei?
2021-03-06T17:13:45 < t4nk_freenode> vakzinazion
2021-03-06T17:13:59 < mawk> jawöhl
2021-03-06T17:14:05 < mawk> or jawel should I say
2021-03-06T17:20:17 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/52924.0/2016200.jpg
2021-03-06T17:20:22 < Laurenceb> hes a big guy
2021-03-06T17:23:38 < aandrew> BrainDamage: well the "find my" infra does use location out of necessity, but the covid tracking infra is pretty abuse-proof. randomized macs, no location data
2021-03-06T17:24:02 < aandrew> all it can really tell you is that one of the randomized macs you spewed was picked up by someone at some point
2021-03-06T17:24:29 < BrainDamage> I said nothing about covid infra?
2021-03-06T17:25:46 < aandrew> I know
2021-03-06T17:25:54 < aandrew> it's similar tech, that's all I'm saying
2021-03-06T17:27:18 < BrainDamage> there's one fundamental difference tho
2021-03-06T17:27:42 < BrainDamage> covid track tracks only if x has been in contact with y
2021-03-06T17:27:58 < BrainDamage> not the factual location of x
2021-03-06T17:28:09 < BrainDamage> I think they have diff goals
2021-03-06T17:29:59 < Laurenceb> but there is no proof any of this works
2021-03-06T17:30:25 < Laurenceb> just wear N95 masks indoors and keep ur distance, simples
2021-03-06T17:30:36  * Laurenceb has a box load of N95 masks
2021-03-06T17:31:01 < Laurenceb> but I'm slowly running out an ebay uk b& them shortly after I ordered mine
2021-03-06T17:31:36 < Laurenceb> at first it was like >masks are pseudoscience, only a fool would wear a mask
2021-03-06T17:32:04 < Laurenceb> but then it was like >not wearing a mask is pseudoscience, only a fool would not wear a (shitty, cloth and not proven to work) mask
2021-03-06T17:33:53 < englishman> modern mind control
2021-03-06T17:34:57 < BrainDamage> here there was a mask shortage in the early months, now I'm swimming with them
2021-03-06T17:35:16 < BrainDamage> I have a box of 50 I paid 10 bucks for
2021-03-06T17:35:37 < BrainDamage> in the early months 1 would sell for 3-4
2021-03-06T17:36:28 < BrainDamage> considering they are disposable and meant to be replaced often, I can see why people would not get the real thing
2021-03-06T17:36:54 < BrainDamage> since you'd get one, use it a day, and end up no better than a makeshift one
2021-03-06T17:38:03 < BrainDamage> that, or spend quite the sum just to be able to get out of home
2021-03-06T17:38:13 < englishman> gyms are reopening here Monday. finally
2021-03-06T17:38:34 < t4nk_freenode> or just use an undamaged brain and spend nothing
2021-03-06T17:39:12 < BrainDamage> my town is in the lead of infections of the whole country, woo
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2021-03-06T17:52:20 < Laurenceb> >Elon musk is fat
2021-03-06T17:52:27 < Laurenceb> keeekkking so hard right now tbh
2021-03-06T17:53:06 < Laurenceb> >that foul thot cheated on her husband to fug him
2021-03-06T17:53:22 < Laurenceb> the absolute sate of hollywood
2021-03-06T17:54:01 < Laurenceb> also 
2021-03-06T17:54:01 < jadew> Laurenceb, what?
2021-03-06T17:54:18 < Laurenceb> hollywood shit, who cares really
2021-03-06T17:54:27 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/52924.0/2016200.jpg
2021-03-06T17:54:38 < Laurenceb> also
2021-03-06T17:54:50 < Laurenceb> >miss_hitler from rizon got put in prison
2021-03-06T17:54:57 < Laurenceb> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9329275/Number-far-right-extremists-British-jails-soars-record-levels.html
2021-03-06T17:55:03 < Laurenceb> thot patrolled
2021-03-06T17:56:37 < Laurenceb> she totally deserves it for all the edgelords she got b& from youtube and twitter for exposing her autism and the fact that in non photoshopped pics she is a fat spotty basement dwelling loser (implying the trolls weren't too...)
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2021-03-06T17:57:35 < Laurenceb> or to quote a standard copypasta: follow ur hero and kill urself, miss-hitler
2021-03-06T17:59:27 < jadew> Laurenceb, there is a term for the terrorists in that article, it's "political prisoner"
2021-03-06T17:59:40 < jadew> RIP UK
2021-03-06T17:59:48 < Laurenceb> sure, but in her case she deserves it for being so obnoxious
2021-03-06T18:00:01 < jadew> the moment you see incarcerations based on political ideology, you know your country is fucked
2021-03-06T18:00:13 < Laurenceb> but yeah she is so autistic she couldnt tie her own shoelaces, let alone bomb anyone
2021-03-06T18:00:46 < Laurenceb> her only skill is photoshoppingherself ten times thinner
2021-03-06T18:01:01 < jadew> exactly, it seems that they're in prison for wrongthink
2021-03-06T18:01:32 < Laurenceb> hope I dont get arrested, I irc'd with her a few times
2021-03-06T18:01:51 < Laurenceb> but really I was just getting ammo to feed to the trolls
2021-03-06T18:01:53 < jadew> in here communism is illegal, I don't recall anyone being punished for expressing communist views since the revolution
2021-03-06T18:02:53 < Laurenceb> I dont believe in political prisoners, but obnoxious attention seeking bullies deserve prison, so in her case, shrug
2021-03-06T18:03:03 < Laurenceb> send Megan to prison next tbh
2021-03-06T18:03:09 < jadew> I mean, sure, you can have a society that frowns upon certain ideologies, as they should, but cracking down on other political views is fascism
2021-03-06T18:08:18 < jadew> Last month Britain's youngest convicted terrorist who led a neo-Nazi cell from his grandmother's cottage in rural Cornwall walked free from court today.
2021-03-06T18:08:19 < jadew> The teenager, who committed a string of terror offences between the ages of 13 and 15, fell into his grandmother's arms in court as he was spared jail.
2021-03-06T18:08:33 < jadew> 13 yo terrorist LMFAO
2021-03-06T18:10:40 < mawk> lol
2021-03-06T18:10:53 < mawk> posting dancing hitler memes = terrorism
2021-03-06T18:10:58  * mawk is going to jail
2021-03-06T18:11:05 < BrainDamage> you can still wield a gun at 13 fwiw
2021-03-06T18:11:20 < BrainDamage> without context it's hard to say
2021-03-06T18:11:27 < BrainDamage> but probably exagerated
2021-03-06T18:11:32 < jadew> "When police raided his grandmother's home they found a swastika flag and the extremist codes '14 88' - standing for 'Heil Hitler' painted across the garden shed."
2021-03-06T18:11:40 < jadew> so... no guns
2021-03-06T18:12:15 < BrainDamage> but yes, I agree that britain cares too much about what people think
2021-03-06T18:12:32 < BrainDamage> but this is not a recent thing
2021-03-06T18:12:42 < mawk> 1984 was modeled after britain right?
2021-03-06T18:12:47 < BrainDamage> porn filters, invasive surveillance, etc
2021-03-06T18:12:48 < BrainDamage> yup
2021-03-06T18:12:52 < mawk> angsoc
2021-03-06T18:14:31 < jadew> the problem here is that they're calling terror offences things that are not terrorist activities
2021-03-06T18:14:59 < mawk> terrorism is asymmetric guerilla
2021-03-06T18:15:06 < jadew> terrorism creates fear for one's life, not offense
2021-03-06T18:15:08 < mawk> posting hitler memes is far from guerilla, under any definition
2021-03-06T18:15:56 < BrainDamage> the modern definition of terrorism is so loose that anything that can be classfied as an act against a state's ideals is terrorismm
2021-03-06T18:16:09 < BrainDamage> so yes, posting hitler memes can be terrorism
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2021-03-06T18:16:35 < Laurenceb> > painted across the garden shed
2021-03-06T18:16:41 < Laurenceb> kekking hard tbh
2021-03-06T18:16:57 < BrainDamage> so since the word is now devoid of meaning, just strik it out from the text and read the rest
2021-03-06T18:17:13 < Laurenceb> its weird how they talk about russian hackors, but that fascist forge webshite he was on was FSB
2021-03-06T18:17:21 < Laurenceb> but they never point that out
2021-03-06T18:17:37 < jadew> what's FSB?
2021-03-06T18:17:42 < Laurenceb> it was obvious to anyone reading it, parts were written like 1970s Soviet propoganda
2021-03-06T18:17:52 < Laurenceb> jadew: follow on from KGB
2021-03-06T18:18:48 < Laurenceb> there was a wacky FSB plot to indoctrinate western teenagers to be nazi terrorists, supposedly Putin ordered it shut down, but depends who you believe
2021-03-06T18:19:50 < BrainDamage> the cia funded commie terrorism in the 70s here
2021-03-06T18:19:56 < BrainDamage> operation gladio
2021-03-06T18:20:39 < Laurenceb> its pretty easy to recognise genuine russian propaganda online, they havent moved on from soviet times so have a condescending attitude to the reader and use argument from authority and stuff, or maybe I've only seen the "B team" output
2021-03-06T18:21:19 < Laurenceb> but Fascist Forge and Iron March were def from the B team
2021-03-06T18:22:36 < Laurenceb>  "our teenagers are evil nazis" presumably serves gov interest in uk, so they dont point out how they were groomed online
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2021-03-06T18:34:19 < jadew> this is from '83: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLdDmeyMJls
2021-03-06T18:34:48 < jadew> the guy talks about a plot by the KGB to subvert the US
2021-03-06T18:35:44 < mawk> there were probably plots from the CIA to subvert the USSR
2021-03-06T18:35:59 < mawk> when one starts, the other has to react by doing the same
2021-03-06T18:36:04 < jadew> right, but the kicker is that the effects he describes are observable today :)
2021-03-06T18:36:38 < jadew> it's an interesting watch
2021-03-06T18:38:23 < R2COM> <jadew> the guy talks about a plot by the KGB to subvert the US
2021-03-06T18:38:24 < R2COM> ^
2021-03-06T18:38:36 < R2COM> congratulate KGB, since their goal was achieved
2021-03-06T18:38:46 < R2COM> most muricans are now lefties/commies like yourself
2021-03-06T18:38:49 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/dgqvlo.png
2021-03-06T18:38:56 < Laurenceb> typical britbong couple
2021-03-06T18:39:12 < mawk> why do you think jadew is a commie R2COM ?
2021-03-06T18:39:27 < R2COM> he is a leftie
2021-03-06T18:39:31 < mawk> Laurenceb: this looks like reality tv couple
2021-03-06T18:39:35 < R2COM> and i put equality sign between leftie and commie
2021-03-06T18:39:43 < mawk> he doesn't seem leftie to me
2021-03-06T18:39:52 < mawk> for EU at least
2021-03-06T18:39:55 < R2COM> you probably missed some part of convos with him
2021-03-06T18:40:03 < Laurenceb> >muh 1D political spectrum fallacy
2021-03-06T18:40:25 < mawk> it's 0D Laurenceb 
2021-03-06T18:40:35 < mawk> there are only two possible values: left and right
2021-03-06T18:40:40 < mawk> that's 0 dimensional space
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2021-03-06T18:41:42 < R2COM> the frightening part is that even in military command, defense and national security circles, people are lefties too
2021-03-06T18:41:51 < R2COM> the days of people like general patton etc are gone
2021-03-06T18:42:16 < R2COM> now in 2020 (or 2019?) minister of defense comes out and talks about cop's wrongdoing during arrest and how wrong it is
2021-03-06T18:42:27 < R2COM> although his job is fucking war
2021-03-06T18:42:36 < aandrew> actually I think that's good
2021-03-06T18:42:45 < R2COM> oh you do?
2021-03-06T18:42:46 < mawk> maybe it's a good thing that ministry of war is out of job
2021-03-06T18:42:50 < aandrew> civil issues should not be dealt with in the same way that military issues are
2021-03-06T18:42:55 < aandrew> they're completely different areas
2021-03-06T18:43:09 < aandrew> or do you think a man like patton treats his children's infractions the same way he would treat a solidier's?
2021-03-06T18:43:12 < aandrew> give your head a shake man
2021-03-06T18:43:14 < R2COM> im saying why the fuck war minister needs to talk about that shit?
2021-03-06T18:43:26 < aandrew> the militarization of police is a huge problem
2021-03-06T18:43:29 < R2COM> no i dont need to shake my head
2021-03-06T18:43:39 < aandrew> there is *zero* reason for any police force to have military equipment
2021-03-06T18:43:41 < mawk> shake your head if you want to bruise your brain
2021-03-06T18:43:44 < R2COM> lmao
2021-03-06T18:44:00 < aandrew> there are plenty of idiot cops who think that they're soldiers rather than policemen
2021-03-06T18:44:09 < R2COM> mawk see? and lots of people in this country are like that
2021-03-06T18:44:15 < R2COM> usa is pretty much finished as superpower
2021-03-06T18:44:16 < aandrew> funnily enough it's usually those idiots who also would fail to get through basic
2021-03-06T18:44:30 < aandrew> lol
2021-03-06T18:44:39 < mawk> well that's a good thing R2COM 
2021-03-06T18:44:42 < mawk> given that I'm not from USA
2021-03-06T18:44:52 < aandrew> if you think you need to police your citizens as if they're military adversaries you're finished as a nation
2021-03-06T18:44:59 < R2COM> aandrew in this country no soldiers are left , even in military
2021-03-06T18:44:59 < mawk> it's the turn of netherlands becoming the superpower it was back in time
2021-03-06T18:45:10 < aandrew> R2COM: that's a huge problem
2021-03-06T18:45:14 < BrainDamage> portugal
2021-03-06T18:45:17 < R2COM> aandrew soldiers of murica are getting PTSD from an explosion miles away
2021-03-06T18:45:20 < aandrew> R2COM: I believe a strong military is important
2021-03-06T18:45:22 < R2COM> and need psycho treatment
2021-03-06T18:45:26 < R2COM> bunch of marshmallows
2021-03-06T18:45:28 < R2COM> you know why?
2021-03-06T18:45:40 < mawk> wait for your turn BrainDamage 
2021-03-06T18:45:43 < R2COM> cuz while being children, they are raised in families with dads like You
2021-03-06T18:45:49 < aandrew> lol
2021-03-06T18:45:59 < R2COM> aandrew there cant be a strong military if average boy is raised by person like you
2021-03-06T18:46:01 < R2COM> fact
2021-03-06T18:46:08 < aandrew> ok. I think the issue is with a basic lack of self respect and being helicopter-parented
2021-03-06T18:46:13 < mawk> have a robotic military
2021-03-06T18:46:24 < R2COM> you can choose either the course you chose, or a strong military
2021-03-06T18:46:25 < mawk> then they don't get ptsd
2021-03-06T18:46:28 < aandrew> R2COM: are you a maga-hat-wearing far right type? I didn't realize that before
2021-03-06T18:46:35 < aandrew> R2COM: nonsense
2021-03-06T18:46:39 < R2COM> its fact
2021-03-06T18:46:41 < R2COM> lol
2021-03-06T18:46:44 < aandrew> no there's no fact there
2021-03-06T18:46:51 < aandrew> just idiotic talk 
2021-03-06T18:46:58 < R2COM> you do not have enough testosterones to raise a soldier
2021-03-06T18:47:04 < aandrew> being raised right has nothing to do with militarization of police
2021-03-06T18:47:15 < R2COM> you are not raised right
2021-03-06T18:47:20 < R2COM> boomers cannot raise proper children
2021-03-06T18:47:22 < aandrew> you are just talking out your ass
2021-03-06T18:47:32 < R2COM> im calmly stating facts and you cant deal with it
2021-03-06T18:47:38 < aandrew> typical armchair asshat
2021-03-06T18:47:44 < aandrew> you haven't stated a single fact
2021-03-06T18:47:59 < aandrew> you are just spewing out idiotic text and claiming it's fact
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2021-03-06T18:48:32 < R2COM> fact is, when any russian warplane comes close to US recoinessance plane, or their satellite comes close to >1$B satellite of US, your marshmallow generals come out and say publicly something like "this behavior of russia is unacceptable"
2021-03-06T18:48:35 < R2COM> you see?
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2021-03-06T18:48:54 < mawk> it's part of mediatic warfare
2021-03-06T18:48:57 < mawk> it's always been like this
2021-03-06T18:49:06 < mawk> not because they say so they mean it
2021-03-06T18:49:16 < R2COM> now... remember 2016 (proly not if you are not in theme), but russian warplane was flying near some country's airspace (turkey) and guess what? their generals did not go out to media saying that ruissia shouldnt do it...
2021-03-06T18:49:19 < R2COM> they...shot plane
2021-03-06T18:49:27 < R2COM> and killed pilot while he was descending down with parachute
2021-03-06T18:49:35 < R2COM> without any fear that "uh oh its nuclear power" 
2021-03-06T18:49:42 < R2COM> you know why?
2021-03-06T18:49:53 < R2COM> cuz nowadays, other countries have actually men in military
2021-03-06T18:49:53 < mawk> then they publicly apologized
2021-03-06T18:50:01 < R2COM> they never apologized
2021-03-06T18:50:08 < R2COM> i got exact translation of text
2021-03-06T18:50:19 < R2COM> it sounded as "we are sorry that your pilot died"
2021-03-06T18:50:21 < R2COM> thats it
2021-03-06T18:50:28 < R2COM> not "we apologize"
2021-03-06T18:50:41 < R2COM> i can read texts and get exact translations in year 2k you know
2021-03-06T18:50:54 < R2COM> so thats it
2021-03-06T18:51:03 < BrainDamage> the usa always had issues with internal politics and war, most of the wars usa lost was because the public opinion lost motivation, eg. vietnam
2021-03-06T18:51:10 < R2COM> reason? - democratic marshmallow generals raised by boomers
2021-03-06T18:51:18 < R2COM> raised in a same way like you
2021-03-06T18:51:21 < BrainDamage> so they have to maintain a facade of the good guys
2021-03-06T18:51:25 < aandrew> R2COM: oh I agree that the military should generally stay the fuck out of the media, and the hand-wringing and "we strongly condemn these actions" are words for politicians, not generals
2021-03-06T18:51:31 < R2COM> as a result, now, in 2021 you have 0 respect among allies
2021-03-06T18:51:40 < R2COM> whatever
2021-03-06T18:53:36 < R2COM> https://time.com/5779315/russian-spacecraft-spy-satellite-space-force/
2021-03-06T18:53:45 < R2COM> im shocked where this country is going
2021-03-06T18:53:52 < R2COM> deep down the shitter i guess
2021-03-06T18:55:04 < R2COM> "we believe this behavior is unusual and disturbing" says fucking GENERAL
2021-03-06T18:55:06 < R2COM> lmao
2021-03-06T18:55:20 < R2COM> i guess that general also voted for "gender free restrooms"
2021-03-06T18:55:24 < R2COM> or whatever that shit called
2021-03-06T18:55:44 < R2COM> he celebrates pride month too i assume
2021-03-06T18:56:41 < R2COM> when the kids are raised like that, when during their early age they are taught  "not to fight back" cuz "its not good " etc., and just call teacher for help or other stuff you know
2021-03-06T18:56:48 < R2COM> when they are not taught to stand their ground
2021-03-06T18:56:53 < R2COM> basically feminine kids
2021-03-06T18:56:59 < R2COM> then they become generals like that
2021-03-06T18:57:12 < R2COM> its unusual and disturbing... lol
2021-03-06T18:57:30 < R2COM> what is disturbing? that enemy satellite came close? well shit...take measure ! act, dunno
2021-03-06T18:57:50 < R2COM> analyze your errors, implement defencive systems in your spy satellites
2021-03-06T18:58:04 < R2COM> if airplane comes close, guess what? shoot it, just like turkey did
2021-03-06T18:58:20 < R2COM> kill pilots, kill servicemen of rival country during conflicts
2021-03-06T18:58:25 < R2COM> cuz you are military person
2021-03-06T18:58:32 < R2COM> anyway
2021-03-06T18:58:39 < R2COM> i don't care honestly
2021-03-06T19:00:47 < R2COM> btw european fellas here..proly heard of recent visit of Joseph Borrel (not sure if i spell right) to russia?
2021-03-06T19:01:00 < R2COM> lmao, he was literally dickfaced there
2021-03-06T19:01:11 < R2COM> and came back saying that russia has hostile thoughts etc
2021-03-06T19:01:13 < R2COM> jeez
2021-03-06T19:01:19 < R2COM> as if...before he didn't know?
2021-03-06T19:01:26 < R2COM> ok 
2021-03-06T19:03:54 < jadew> R2COM, I'm neither right nor left
2021-03-06T19:05:11 < jadew> I'm for small government and capitalism, but I'm against guns for example
2021-03-06T19:05:39 < jadew> not necessarily against allowing people to own guns, bug against the culture of guns
2021-03-06T19:05:57 < jadew> here people can actually own guns for both self-defense and hunting, but few do
2021-03-06T19:06:31 < jadew> *but
2021-03-06T19:07:35 < aandrew> R2COM: soldier first, why would you have boy/girl bathrooms/latrines in the military
2021-03-06T19:08:33 < R2COM> jadew you are noone to be against certain culture, gun or not gun, doesnt matter, you can keep your fears to yourself, or get mental help
2021-03-06T19:09:06 < R2COM> aandrew with you conversation over, i made main points, and not willing to have a further discussion
2021-03-06T19:09:06 < jadew> R2COM, it's not about my fears, because it doesn't affect me in any way
2021-03-06T19:09:17 < jadew> but guns to defend yourself against the government is a stupid argument
2021-03-06T19:09:23 < jadew> maybe it made sense 300 years ago
2021-03-06T19:09:35 < jadew> but today, the government can turn you to dust
2021-03-06T19:09:57 < aandrew> R2COM: feel free to /ignore, but I'll chat if I choose to, just like you
2021-03-06T19:10:00 < jadew> there's no fighting the government, so the only thing you can do with guns is get shot by some low life
2021-03-06T19:10:09 < aandrew> it's clear you're just trolling so I agree it's mostly over
2021-03-06T19:10:39 < R2COM> aandrew no i dont troll, i made statement, i brough real life examples, and you don't congest it, thats your problem
2021-03-06T19:11:06 < R2COM> jadew you are nopt qualified tactician or military advisor to make such statements, so i don't value your comments
2021-03-06T19:11:41 < R2COM> jadew i'll value your comments about GUI design or library for programming, but not on those matters you mentioned now
2021-03-06T19:11:47 < aandrew> jadew: that's the most ridiculous part of it all, these fat rednecks think their stockpiles of weapons are some means to save them from government tyrrany
2021-03-06T19:11:48 < R2COM> as simple as that
2021-03-06T19:12:10 < aandrew> R2COM: you didn't give any real examples, you just spewed bullshit
2021-03-06T19:12:40 < jadew> R2COM, you don't need to be a tactician, just look at all an any uprisings so far
2021-03-06T19:12:52 < aandrew> just absolute tripe about how not having a militaristic police force turned everyone into fairies and so on
2021-03-06T19:12:55 < jadew> the only time when the people win, is when the military joins them
2021-03-06T19:12:58 < R2COM> aandrew two russian spy satellites approaching multibillion dollar US spy satelliute and us general saying “We view this behavior as unusual and disturbing,” is bullshit?
2021-03-06T19:13:07 < BrainDamage> he gave examples, it''s the connecttion is nonsensicall
2021-03-06T19:13:38 < aandrew> R2COM: and if you'll note, I agreed with you that the hand-wringing and idiotic "we disagree with these deplorable actions" type statements should not come from the military at all
2021-03-06T19:13:50 < R2COM> but they do come from them
2021-03-06T19:14:03 < R2COM> constantly
2021-03-06T19:14:05 < aandrew> R2COM: whcih I'm agreeing with you that they should not be occuring
2021-03-06T19:14:31 < aandrew> but to try to draw a connection between that and how *I* was raised and how *I* raise my kids is just low-effort trolling
2021-03-06T19:15:11 < aandrew> and trying to tell jadew that his opinion on 2a and marshmallow militia types isn't valid... again low-rent shit
2021-03-06T19:16:39 < R2COM> those connections are obvious, and need not be drawn, but your internal ignorance prefers not to see them
2021-03-06T19:16:39 < aandrew> I think that participation trophy culture and helicopter parenting is creating big problems because as a species we thrive on competition. taking that away creates adults with no coping skills for loss and who can't roll with the punches
2021-03-06T19:17:20 < englishman> ^ that describes r2com to a tee
2021-03-06T19:17:20 < aandrew> no, there is no connection there. trying to draw them is wilful ignorance 
2021-03-06T19:18:08 < aandrew> "I'm right and if you don't agree you're just a moron" is how anyone with an indefensible position tries to cope
2021-03-06T19:19:07 < R2COM> i dont have a goal of having you agree with me
2021-03-06T19:19:12 < R2COM> i just commented
2021-03-06T19:19:25 < R2COM> gave 2c, and i know there are people here who agree, but are less talky :)
2021-03-06T19:19:51 < R2COM> but yeah, you can keep on going in your safespace
2021-03-06T19:20:08 < aandrew> ^^ right there
2021-03-06T19:20:11 < R2COM> and maybe hug jadew and few others and feel more comfortable
2021-03-06T19:20:15 < aandrew> "if you don't agree with me you're a moron"
2021-03-06T19:20:20 < aandrew> ok man, enjoy your echo chamber
2021-03-06T19:20:23 < Steffanx> Haha
2021-03-06T19:20:39 < R2COM> i didn't call anyone moron
2021-03-06T19:20:46 < Steffanx> Why even try to have this  talk AGAIN with r2cummie 
2021-03-06T19:20:52 < aandrew> and now you're being pedantic to deflect, ok
2021-03-06T19:21:14 < R2COM> depending on my mood i can be more or less pedantic
2021-03-06T19:21:19 < aandrew> instead of addressing the actual comment, you attack on the side to try to change the subject
2021-03-06T19:21:38 < aandrew> the level of pedantry isn't the issue, the deflection and refusing to actually address the comment is
2021-03-06T19:22:06 < R2COM> theres no deflection, i showed examples and pointed connections which you deny, which is up to you, not going to convince you
2021-03-06T19:22:09 < R2COM> its that easy really
2021-03-06T19:22:26 < aandrew> you didn't point out a connection
2021-03-06T19:22:32 < R2COM> thats your opinion
2021-03-06T19:22:35 < R2COM> not going to change it
2021-03-06T19:22:43 < aandrew> you said there's A and there's B, and if you don't agree that there's a connection then you're an idiot
2021-03-06T19:25:46 < R2COM> well, if one gets intoxication because of drug overdoes and blames it on shelf life of peaches he ate the other day then...i'll let you choose to decide who he is
2021-03-06T19:25:58 < R2COM> that being said, not willing to go over that with you anymore
2021-03-06T19:25:58 < aandrew> that's pretty much exactly what you did
2021-03-06T19:26:35 < aandrew> "this idiotic statement came from a general, this is clearly because children in america are raised to be pussies"
2021-03-06T19:27:10 < aandrew> the general's statements (or the fact that he even made them) has nothing to do with how children are raised these days
2021-03-06T19:27:11 < R2COM> you want me to get you 10 other similar storeis occured within last couple years, related to plane fly by  etc?
2021-03-06T19:27:16 < R2COM> and other generals?
2021-03-06T19:27:19 < R2COM> you do?
2021-03-06T19:27:22 < aandrew> and when I complained about the militarization of police, you proceeded to say that I'm part of the problem
2021-03-06T19:27:24 < R2COM> and then what will you say?
2021-03-06T19:27:29 < R2COM> that all those generals were not raised in US?
2021-03-06T19:27:37 < aandrew> because clearly a militarized police force has ANYTHING to do with a general making weak statements
2021-03-06T19:27:39 < R2COM> they were...raised...in where? 
2021-03-06T19:27:55 < R2COM> i don't give shit about militarized police at all honestly
2021-03-06T19:28:05 < aandrew> you sure did when I brought up that I think it's a dumb idea
2021-03-06T19:28:22 < R2COM> look at logs and see who uses word militarized police first
2021-03-06T19:28:25 < R2COM> i never mentioned it
2021-03-06T19:28:37 < aandrew> in fact you proceeded to tell me that because of my statemenet, it's proof that I'm some mawkish pussy, and not only that but I'm raising my kids to be the same
2021-03-06T19:28:41 < aandrew> you're just sall over the map
2021-03-06T19:28:55 < aandrew> I just told you I brought it up and your response
2021-03-06T19:29:06 < R2COM> ok so You brought it up
2021-03-06T19:29:16 < jadew> I don't think generals get to make public statements that are not approved by the chain of command
2021-03-06T19:29:42 < jadew> just wanted to add that
2021-03-06T19:29:58 < aandrew> I think they have a certain level of autonomy but they don't get to be generals in the first place without understanding what can and can't be said
2021-03-06T19:30:11 < R2COM> at that point doesnt matter coc = generals = higher echelon command
2021-03-06T19:30:20 < jadew> if they don't take immediate action against a transgression, is because it has been decided that it's detrimental in the long run
2021-03-06T19:31:29 < jadew> then the statements they make, will probably fall within some narrative that has been pre-approved
2021-03-06T19:32:13 < aandrew> not only that, but are perhaps part of a larger tactical response, although with that specific statement I'm not sure if that's the case
2021-03-06T19:32:14 < jadew> so the idea that you could judge them or their uprising based on what they say is silly
2021-03-06T19:34:16 < R2COM> it was so touchy for you lol that tells me that deep inside you realize that there *is* connection line between how people in power (generals, officers, intelligence team, military personnel etc) act and how they were raised
2021-03-06T19:34:28 < R2COM> anyway, im done
2021-03-06T19:34:55 < R2COM> but hey! now im thinking...that if you realize it...even though try to deny...maybe not all is lost
2021-03-06T19:34:56 < R2COM> :)
2021-03-06T19:35:28 < qyx> is this some juicy stm32 talk?
2021-03-06T19:35:43 < qyx> is it worth it reading?
2021-03-06T19:35:52 < R2COM> no
2021-03-06T19:36:12 < jadew> R2COM, there would obviously be a connection between the uprising of a generation and how they rule a country collectively, but I don't think you can infer their true motives by just looking at the outcome of an exchange and the public statements
2021-03-06T19:37:11 < jadew> to the public it might look like something simple "x came to close to y, nothing happened, gen. Z said whatever"
2021-03-06T19:37:12 < R2COM> [<jadew> R2COM, there would obviously be a connection between the uprising of a generation and how they rule a country collectively, ] <--- sure!!!
2021-03-06T19:37:27 < emeb> Anyone here with mad skillz WRT SD cards?  I'm trying to use an SD card as a giant buffer memory for realtime data and it appears as though there's no way to determine when write operations are complete other than to just try them and see if you get a cmd timeout.
2021-03-06T19:37:27 < jadew> *too close
2021-03-06T19:37:49 < aandrew> no, we're (or at least me) not touchy about it, we just think it's far right MAGA idotic talk and expect better of the people we associate with
2021-03-06T19:38:27 < R2COM> aandrew honestly, after trump meeting with putin i was not maga person anymore, so not sure why you bring it on me
2021-03-06T19:38:55 < Steffanx> emeb: try qyx he has been rambling about sd card lately
2021-03-06T19:39:12 < aandrew> R2COM: only because the same talking points are used by a lot of them. I'm not an orange man bad TDS type, but the man *is* a moron and unfit for that position
2021-03-06T19:40:18 < jadew> I think he has high chances of getting elected again
2021-03-06T19:40:25 < aandrew> but I mean I don't think biden's really all that fit either. I personally think the leader of a country should be old enough to have experience but not so old that his policies will have no effect on him because he'll be dead in a decade
2021-03-06T19:40:26 < qyx> emeb: https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/feature/app-build/services/spi-sd/spi-sd.c#L29
2021-03-06T19:40:47 < qyx> emeb: tl;dr if the card is busy, it doesn't respond you with 0xff to 0xff (using SPI mode)
2021-03-06T19:41:10 < qyx> *to you
2021-03-06T19:41:20 < aandrew> but the usual "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, any kind of government assistance is socialism, guns guns guns, police brutality is an illusion" type talk is standard fare, I may have unfairly lumped you in with that crowd
2021-03-06T19:41:33 < aandrew> I've actually never ever talked to an SD card in any of my adventures
2021-03-06T19:41:41 < aandrew> I'm not much help for you there qyx 
2021-03-06T19:42:43 < qyx> wat :)
2021-03-06T19:42:59 < jadew> aandrew, I think emeb asked about that
2021-03-06T19:43:09 < jadew> yeah
2021-03-06T19:43:09 < R2COM> dont touch peoples guns, do'nt take peoples taxes and redistribute to others, don't overpower police, DO protect us from external rivals; DONE
2021-03-06T19:45:14 < zyp> ##politics32
2021-03-06T19:45:47 < Steffanx> ##veryboring32 
2021-03-06T19:45:58 < jadew> ##communistm32
2021-03-06T19:46:22 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-03-06T19:48:24 < mawk> we are not far right enough
2021-03-06T19:48:27 < mawk> must go further
2021-03-06T19:48:35 < mawk> let's invite thierry
2021-03-06T19:48:57 < mawk> call him Steffanx 
2021-03-06T19:50:11 < R2COM> mawk you should become president of france
2021-03-06T19:50:25 < R2COM> and make france great again
2021-03-06T19:50:45 < R2COM> declare war to russia, and reach moscow just like daddy napoleon did once
2021-03-06T19:51:11 < mawk> I think you need an empty criminal record to become President
2021-03-06T19:52:05 < R2COM> you are a nerd who programs stm32 and writes custom OS kernel, how can you be criminal
2021-03-06T19:52:24 < emeb> Steffanx: qyx: thx for suggestions - I'm not in SPI mode - is there some equiv for SDIO mode?
2021-03-06T19:53:18 < R2COM> alright back to work i go
2021-03-06T19:59:16 < qyx> emeb: idk, not pro in SDIO yet :(
2021-03-06T19:59:49 < emeb> qyx: kk - thx. Studying the HAL stuff for SDMMC to see if there
2021-03-06T20:00:01 < emeb> are any low level funcs for busy checking.
2021-03-06T20:00:08 < emeb> not seeing any
2021-03-06T20:01:02 < Steffanx> What mcu are you using emeb ?
2021-03-06T20:01:12 < emeb> Steffanx: stm32h730
2021-03-06T20:01:19 < Steffanx> freertos is also involved?
2021-03-06T20:01:23 < Steffanx> or any other rtos?
2021-03-06T20:01:30 < emeb> Steffanx: nope - bare metal
2021-03-06T20:01:49 < emeb> not even using fatfs - raw read/write to device
2021-03-06T20:02:10 < Steffanx> or it might be less of an issue than, because the SDMMC crap in HAL is terrible.
2021-03-06T20:02:24 < Steffanx> At least for F7. Probably not better for H7
2021-03-06T20:03:11 < emeb> Steffanx: interesting - what's the alternative? Go full cave-man and code your own directly to SD registers?
2021-03-06T20:03:51 < Steffanx> Example: It starts a read and waits for a command reply. But if the actual data/dma tranfer completes before it is given time to readback the command response some bits will already be reset by the dma irq.
2021-03-06T20:03:58 < Steffanx> -> weird time outs
2021-03-06T20:04:33 < Steffanx> its supposed to work fine with an rtos, but it does not.
2021-03-06T20:04:50 < Steffanx> So it should not reschedule or whatever in between sending a command and reading the response.
2021-03-06T20:05:05 < Steffanx> no clue about alternatives emeb  :P
2021-03-06T20:05:08 < emeb> Steffanx: ah. well not using RTOS or crazy threading. All the SD ops are happening in a single thread.
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2021-03-06T20:05:29 < emeb> no interrupts either. Just blocking I/O
2021-03-06T20:05:37 < Steffanx> ah alright, no dma and stuff
2021-03-06T20:06:08 < emeb> so HAL may be terrible, but at least I'm not getting into races.
2021-03-06T20:06:18 < Steffanx> It's less likely to happen with the normal interrupt handling anyway (whatever normal is.. ;) )
2021-03-06T20:15:57 < emeb> Interesting - the elm-chan site has a page describing low level details of SPI SD mode. Seems that the card indicates busy to the host by holding DO low.
2021-03-06T20:16:19 < emeb> Wonder if there's equivalent brute-force flag like that for SDIO mode.
2021-03-06T20:17:04 < emeb> http://elm-chan.org/docs/mmc/mmc_e.html
2021-03-06T20:20:57 < zyp> bringing up parallel trace: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TCw1n.mp4
2021-03-06T20:21:39 < emeb> zyp: aww - you're still using the old bmp board.
2021-03-06T20:21:42 < zyp> not all that parallel yet though, works in 1-bit mode but gives me corrupt data in 2 and 4-bit modes
2021-03-06T20:21:49 < zyp> emeb, yeah, they are great
2021-03-06T20:22:04 < zyp> not sure where the others are though
2021-03-06T20:22:40 < zyp> I've given away a couple
2021-03-06T20:23:14 < emeb> dongs sent me a bunch of bare boards that I still have in a cabinet here. I built up only two or three of them.
2021-03-06T20:24:04 < emeb> I've also used them just to make swd/jtag adapters. leave off all the bmp stuff.
2021-03-06T20:24:20 < zyp> bmp also supports that
2021-03-06T20:25:09 < zyp> it's possible to build bmp as a host executable now, works with various hardware including original stlinks, also BMPs
2021-03-06T20:25:09 < emeb> I mean just the connection adaption. 10-pin 0.05" to 6-pin or 20 pin, etc.
2021-03-06T20:25:16 < zyp> ah
2021-03-06T20:25:17 < zyp> right
2021-03-06T20:25:40 < zyp> I've used mine a bit as a plain usb-uart adapter
2021-03-06T20:25:59 < emeb> yes - that was a nice feature before the nucleos did it.
2021-03-06T20:26:36 < emeb> strange thing - I've had nucleos w/ stlink 2.1 where the serial ports become unusable. it's happened to several boards.
2021-03-06T20:28:02 < zyp> it's gonna be interesting to see how this trace stuff pans out though, I'm picturing a fpga-based design with bmp running on a softcore for debug
2021-03-06T20:28:59 < emeb> starting to sound like an MCHP debug pod - those have Xilinx inside AIUI.
2021-03-06T20:30:15 < zyp> yeah, except opensource
2021-03-06T20:31:22 < zyp> I've got orbtrace running on an ECPIX-5 here, with a PMOD adapter board one of the orbuculum people sent me
2021-03-06T20:35:53 < emeb> cool
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2021-03-06T21:28:50 < mawk> I found trump ecstasy R2COM you want some? https://serveur.io/trump-xtc-cropped.jpg
2021-03-06T22:12:42 < emeb> OK - looks like the spec defines a low state on SD card DATA0 as BUSY, and the SDMMC periph in the STM32 has a bit in the status reg that reflects this. 
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2021-03-06T22:54:00 < machinehum> upwork is the most depressing thing on the planet
2021-03-06T22:54:12 < machinehum> Stupid fucking waste of my time
2021-03-06T22:54:34 < machinehum> Submitted like 6 proposals with all relivent work attach, just cricket
2021-03-06T22:56:09 < Steffanx> WHAT IS upwork
2021-03-06T22:56:28 < machinehum> It's like freecancer
2021-03-06T22:56:34 < Steffanx> yeah, i just checked
2021-03-06T23:04:05 -!- k\o\w [~k\o\w@cpe708ea3a28aba-cm589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-06T23:04:53 < machinehum> I think the funniest thing about this upwork bullshit
2021-03-06T23:05:16 < machinehum> Is you need to spend these stupid fucking little tokens if you want to submit a proposal
2021-03-06T23:05:27 < machinehum> AND they change 10% of whatever you make
2021-03-06T23:05:52 -!- kow_ [~k\o\w@cpe708ea3a28aba-cm589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2021-03-06T23:06:03 < machinehum> Running a little low on tokens boys... maybe I'll get one of there 7$/hr jobs so I can buy more tokens
2021-03-06T23:23:52 < englishman> or stop trying to compete with pakis
2021-03-06T23:24:05 < englishman> you live in the most expensive city on earth
2021-03-06T23:24:21 < englishman> there are plenty of opportunities around you
2021-03-06T23:24:35 < aandrew> machinehum: soudns like freecancer
2021-03-06T23:24:42 < aandrew> that site is terrible
2021-03-06T23:30:28 < machinehum> I did use a picture of me holding a mushroom as my profile pic
2021-03-06T23:30:55 < zyp> I think I'd rather go look for something interesting on bountysource or something before that sort of bullshit
2021-03-06T23:31:07 < machinehum> bountysource eh
2021-03-06T23:31:23 < machinehum> ty
2021-03-06T23:33:05 < machinehum> oh the crypto section is awesome
2021-03-06T23:33:11 < machinehum> You can add to the pot
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 07 2021
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2021-03-07T01:24:42 < qyx> FFT pros
2021-03-07T01:25:04 < qyx> may I split the input into two halves and compute FFT with them exchanged?
2021-03-07T01:50:04 < basdb> anyone successfully get RTC working on the STM32 f0/f4?
2021-03-07T01:50:44 < basdb> picking through the documentation and other examples initializing it is yielding dead ends so far
2021-03-07T01:52:28 < R2COM> qyx two halfs mirrored, yes
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2021-03-07T01:56:46 < R2COM> oh wait no, you cant split input...
2021-03-07T01:57:02 < R2COM> but output of whatever fft was done on is mirrored
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2021-03-07T02:04:27 < kakium69> hello night pro
2021-03-07T02:07:13 < R2COM> yo
2021-03-07T02:07:15 < R2COM> its not night here
2021-03-07T02:07:19 < R2COM> its evening
2021-03-07T02:07:24 < R2COM> night will begin later
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2021-03-07T03:31:03 < aandrew> lol the crypto prices on bountysource are hilarious
2021-03-07T03:31:27 < aandrew> the prices in fiat are more reasonable but still low
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2021-03-07T05:05:41 < t4nk_freenode> pffffff 32G and qtwebengine still OOMs out
2021-03-07T05:05:53 < vegii> what was the decentralized crypto exchange called?
2021-03-07T05:06:31 < t4nk_freenode> United Nations?
2021-03-07T05:07:02 < vegii> doubt
2021-03-07T05:07:34 < t4nk_freenode> if in doubt, treat your gout
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2021-03-07T05:35:52 < R2COM> etherium?
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2021-03-07T05:45:54 < vegii> any love for stm8l152?
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2021-03-07T09:46:18 < t4nk_freenode> from me.. absolutely less than not at all ;)
2021-03-07T09:48:03 < t4nk_freenode> I still have a lot of love for pic18f though, but at least they have usb
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2021-03-07T11:11:00 < karlp> BrainDamage: as I understand it, the apple haystack thing isn't _forcing_ anything to broadcast, it's just catching beacons that are already being broadcast,
2021-03-07T11:11:26 < karlp> I'm not aware of anything in btle that lets one party force other devices to announce themselves, but I'm not an expert.
2021-03-07T11:13:52 < jpa-> zyp: i've actually never found anything on bountysource that would be worth my time - unlike upwork & freelancer
2021-03-07T11:26:32 < karlp> I think the idea was that if you're not going to get paid properlæy, might as well be on a bug bounty on an interesting project, rather than someone's bullshit "project" ?
2021-03-07T11:37:15 < zyp> yeah, that's what I figured
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2021-03-07T11:54:51 < jpa-> ah, yeah, i wouldn't work on bullshit projects either
2021-03-07T12:11:50 < Steffanx> Unless you can call the work a hobby jpa- ;)
2021-03-07T12:14:13 < Steffanx> Hobbies cost money
2021-03-07T12:31:11 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, but i haven't found anything really interesting on bountysource either
2021-03-07T12:37:26 < zyp> to be honest, I haven't looked
2021-03-07T12:38:07 < zyp> I'd expect all the low hanging fruits to be picked already
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2021-03-07T13:13:27 < Steffanx> You can move the AVR gcc backend (CC0 I believe) to the newer stuff so it keeps being supported in newer GCCs ;)
2021-03-07T13:13:53 < Steffanx> The arduino Community will love you
2021-03-07T13:19:45 < zyp> I looked through the comments on that yesterday, apparently it's mostly done and people are fighting over who gets the bounty
2021-03-07T13:25:46 < Steffanx> Ha alright. Only read the bug on the tracker a bit and multiple people worked on it.
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2021-03-07T13:56:41 < jpa-> yeah, many of the bountysource bugs are like that, 90% done and just somehow stalled
2021-03-07T13:56:51 < jpa-> and unclear what would happen if you go and do the last 10%
2021-03-07T13:57:50 < Steffanx> world domination ofcourse
2021-03-07T13:58:21 < tct> did somebody say world domination?
2021-03-07T13:58:32 < Steffanx> no you read it wrong.
2021-03-07T14:01:32 < jpa-> tct: can you make a nice lvgl theme for me? i don't like the default ones
2021-03-07T14:02:33 < Steffanx> you may use the ban hammer if you think that is the right response here, tct 
2021-03-07T14:05:10 < tct> why would that be the right response?
2021-03-07T14:05:35 < tct> jpa-, I guess I could, but I am also sure that there are people more familiar with lvgl than me
2021-03-07T14:06:13 < jpa-> i'll figure it out eventually; i already made a spinbox that spins the way i want
2021-03-07T14:06:22 < jpa-> at least their font library is not complete crap
2021-03-07T14:06:48 < tct> hah ;-)
2021-03-07T14:08:07 < jpa-> it's a bit weird how a lot of low-level primitives are hidden in private headers, makes it annoying to copy some stuff i want to customize
2021-03-07T14:09:19 < tct> I can´t provide any valuable knowledge there, sorry :/
2021-03-07T14:09:50 < jpa-> don't worry, i'm just blogging here
2021-03-07T14:09:55 < Steffanx> heh lvgl even comes with a serious GUI design tool now.. or at least it will be (soon..)
2021-03-07T14:10:15 < Steffanx> will be there soon*
2021-03-07T14:10:24 < Steffanx> whatever soon may be
2021-03-07T14:12:25 < Steffanx> is ugfx still actively developed mr tct? or did it stop a little?  
2021-03-07T14:13:02 < tct> ugfx is still very much active. currently working out a deal with a silicon manufacturer too.
2021-03-07T14:13:22 < Steffanx> As long its not nxp its fine :P
2021-03-07T14:13:28 < jpa-> are you a millionaire yet?
2021-03-07T14:14:16 < tct> jpa-, lol no. since covid much farther away from that again. but also don´t really care about money.
2021-03-07T14:14:56 < jpa-> are you enlightened yet?
2021-03-07T14:15:37 < tct> that is an interesting question. My personal, subjective and therefore very biased opinion is yes - but that that was already the case for quite some time.
2021-03-07T14:15:51 < tct> also decided that children are probably not my thing - at least for the coming years.
2021-03-07T14:16:43 < Steffanx> More pets?
2021-03-07T14:17:03 < Steffanx> telegram ##stm32 wants more cat pics for sure
2021-03-07T14:17:18 < BrainDamage> you could adopt Steffanx 
2021-03-07T14:17:54 < tct> no need to adopt yet another dutch person 
2021-03-07T14:20:10 < qyx> is your gf okay with that attitude?
2021-03-07T14:20:21 < Steffanx> That would make our sexy times illegal, BrainDamage . So better not get adopted by tct 
2021-03-07T14:20:54 < tct> qyx, which attitude are you referring to?
2021-03-07T14:20:58 < BrainDamage> have you considered kids with Steffanx instead of your gf?
2021-03-07T14:21:35 < tct> BrainDamage, that would defeat the purpose
2021-03-07T14:22:00 < qyx> tct: the no-children one
2021-03-07T14:22:55 < Steffanx> Havent you always been like: "Kids... fuck no, not for me" mr tct ?
2021-03-07T14:22:58 < tct> qyx, it is a sore point.
2021-03-07T14:26:16 < Steffanx> 😬
2021-03-07T14:29:34 < jpa-> Steffanx: i almost brainwashed tct to have kids at one point
2021-03-07T14:29:44 < jpa-> i wonder who has reset the configuration
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2021-03-07T14:29:59 < Steffanx> his own rational brain
2021-03-07T14:30:30 < Steffanx> when you will have kids, jpa- ?
2021-03-07T14:31:06 < jpa-> well there is not really much stopping a second one from appearing, but hasn't happened so far
2021-03-07T14:31:23 < Steffanx> hah alright.
2021-03-07T14:31:59 < jpa-> maybe we're too lazy with the "sexy times"
2021-03-07T14:32:17 < Steffanx> you know what to do then
2021-03-07T14:32:31 < jpa-> do i?
2021-03-07T14:33:52 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5OFALpzas
2021-03-07T14:34:08 < jpa-> thx
2021-03-07T14:49:57 < Steffanx> lol, yw jpa- . Im always around to give some good advice.
2021-03-07T15:37:05 < Steffanx> so BrainDamage. i learned the hard way that a beer mug is not made for close to boiling water, i should have known. It cracked :D
2021-03-07T15:37:24 < effractur> Steffanx: wait waht
2021-03-07T15:37:36 < effractur> shat shound like a shitty beer mug
2021-03-07T15:37:39 < Steffanx> I used a beer mug for me tea
2021-03-07T15:37:47 < jpa-> that's the easy way to learn it
2021-03-07T15:37:51 < Steffanx> poured close to boiling water in it and it didnt like that.
2021-03-07T15:38:14 < jpa-> hard way is studying glass structure
2021-03-07T15:38:35 < jpa-> super elite way is to read what it says on the package / bottom
2021-03-07T15:38:52 < Steffanx> no way.. who does that?
2021-03-07T15:39:02 < Steffanx> who drinks tea from a beer mug anyway?
2021-03-07T15:40:31 < jpa-> dutch
2021-03-07T15:41:25 < Steffanx> im not dutch luckily
2021-03-07T15:43:44 < jpa-> whaaat
2021-03-07T15:43:51 < jpa-> the foundations of my worldview are shattering
2021-03-07T15:45:27 < Steffanx> that is part of my master plan jpa- . confuse your enemy.
2021-03-07T16:04:00 < karlp> hang on, wat,
2021-03-07T16:04:04 < karlp> what is he then? finnish?
2021-03-07T16:04:22 < Steffanx> :)
2021-03-07T16:04:32 < Steffanx> from the internet
2021-03-07T16:33:15 < englishman> this is a revelation
2021-03-07T16:33:42  * antto deploys an ear
2021-03-07T16:33:49 < englishman> The world's gone topsy turvy
2021-03-07T16:40:32 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'm your enemy? :|
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2021-03-07T17:34:06 < Steffanx> naaah jpa- 
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2021-03-07T18:13:50 < oz4ga> utterly useless but fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2JOs0Aldq0&t=135s
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2021-03-07T19:08:35 < t4nk_freenode> Tuesday PostNL is delivering my order (Package weight: 0.030 kg /  Package Size 8.00 x 8.00 x 6.00 cm) -> PostNL will deliver: 0,22 kg / 20 x 5 x 27 cm 
2021-03-07T19:08:47 < t4nk_freenode> let's just say: I'm getting excited ;)
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2021-03-07T20:02:05 < PaulFertser> Oh noes, tct is forbidden from wearing burka now.
2021-03-07T20:02:29 < Steffanx> poor tct 
2021-03-07T20:03:14 < R2COM> PaulFertser i heard your internet gonna be cut soon
2021-03-07T20:03:30 < PaulFertser> It's almost like GPL. A law that prohibits something claiming to make people more free by that.
2021-03-07T20:03:59 < R2COM> GPL is i guess reason why todays MacOS is based on BSD rather than linux
2021-03-07T20:04:16 < R2COM> if there wouldnt be this retarded license, linux would be so much more successful today
2021-03-07T20:05:18 < Steffanx> He means, might have been more successful, because you cannot know for sure.
2021-03-07T20:05:54 < Steffanx> unless he can travel to some alternate universe where it actually happened, but thats unlikely.
2021-03-07T20:07:20 < PaulFertser> Linux and 386BSD became available at about the same time, and we can see where they're all now. Can different licensing explain the difference in adoption? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is yes.
2021-03-07T20:09:16 < R2COM> communist faggot richard stallman is a reason why linux is pathetic nowadays
2021-03-07T20:10:02 < R2COM> only pride is "SuPeR CompuTaRs Run  LunIX" but its around 500 super computers or so... not even a serious number worldwide
2021-03-07T20:10:40 < R2COM> and then theres this shitmass of people fucking around with linux on their machines wasting their time on trying to make something work
2021-03-07T20:11:06 < R2COM> in the mean time only two super pro OS are there: Win10 and MacOS unix based
2021-03-07T20:11:22 < R2COM> i was thinking about this hackintosh idea but...dunno
2021-03-07T20:11:25 < R2COM> decided that i wont do it
2021-03-07T20:11:34 < R2COM> and overpaying apple faggots for hardware is also a no go for me
2021-03-07T20:11:55 < t4nk_freenode> PaulFertser, that ts80 thingie is rather nice indeed.. there is also a ts100. I didn't order it though, found it too expensive to buy on a whim; already got 2 stations after all. I did however order a 110W(supposedly) CXG soldering iron to try out, around 20euros
2021-03-07T20:12:33 < t4nk_freenode> also, these tips for the ts80, seems like a very expensive business
2021-03-07T20:12:41 < Steffanx> the ts100 is only like 20 euro bucks more?
2021-03-07T20:12:54 < t4nk_freenode> I don't think so man
2021-03-07T20:13:07 < t4nk_freenode> more like 100euros
2021-03-07T20:13:08 < Steffanx> what did you pay for your ts80?
2021-03-07T20:13:29 < t4nk_freenode> nonono, I didn't get it, but PaulFertser flung the name at me
2021-03-07T20:13:34 < Steffanx> ooh
2021-03-07T20:13:39 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: I own a ts100, happy with it so far, and like the portability. However, your usecases seem to be different (if you need that power) so I guess you're making the right choice for you.
2021-03-07T20:14:09 < PaulFertser> I think ts100 was about fifty bucks.
2021-03-07T20:14:11 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, mobility has never been a real issue for me
2021-03-07T20:14:29 < t4nk_freenode> but what if you need a new tip? 35euros or so?
2021-03-07T20:14:53 < Steffanx> how often do you need a new one?
2021-03-07T20:14:54 < PaulFertser> Less than 10 iirc.
2021-03-07T20:14:59 < PaulFertser> There're often discounts.
2021-03-07T20:15:30 < t4nk_freenode> I'm hoping the CXG I bought will last me more than the usual 3 soldering sessions... but if not.. I'll go for the ts100 next
2021-03-07T20:15:46 < Steffanx> JBC is what you will next, i know this.
2021-03-07T20:17:03 < t4nk_freenode> hehe that is one expensive thingie
2021-03-07T20:17:44 < Steffanx> 360 euro bucks..
2021-03-07T20:19:02 < t4nk_freenode> and about the wattage... I don't know man, I'm just reasoning that the 110W(if at all 110) will only help heating time, and hopefully the thing is better able to maintain temperature
2021-03-07T20:22:38 < BrainDamage> power isn't the only thing thatt matterr
2021-03-07T20:22:59 < BrainDamage> you won't warm up a ground plane even with a 300W iron, if the tip is tiny
2021-03-07T20:23:08 < BrainDamage> because the thermal resistanc is high
2021-03-07T20:23:30 < t4nk_freenode> heh, true
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2021-03-07T20:32:41 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: exactly what I tried when I got my hands on JBC pro. The power it pumped through a tiny tip was truly outstanding.
2021-03-07T20:33:47 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-07T20:34:35 < tct> nothing beats a hot plate for proper pre-heating
2021-03-07T20:34:49 < zyp> the JBC NASE is like 14W, and it feels more powerful than my 80W weller
2021-03-07T20:36:27 < englishman> https://fcc.report/IBFS/SES-LIC-INTR2021-00934/3877177.pdf
2021-03-07T20:36:31 < englishman> mobile starlink
2021-03-07T20:37:34 < zyp> nice
2021-03-07T20:38:25 < t4nk_freenode> free BrainDamage for everyone ;)
2021-03-07T20:39:37 < BrainDamage> mobile but still not hand portable
2021-03-07T20:40:40 < BrainDamage> we'll be back to car phones
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--- Day changed Mon Mar 08 2021
2021-03-08T00:28:03 < jadew> just learned that someone I once talked with on IRC, died several years ago
2021-03-08T00:28:46 < jadew> kinda weird, and the first time this happens for me
2021-03-08T00:28:57 < jadew> I wonder how many other people I spoke with also died
2021-03-08T00:30:00 < Steffanx> im alive.
2021-03-08T00:30:07 < jadew> glad to hear that
2021-03-08T00:30:08 < Steffanx> readerror died.
2021-03-08T00:30:46 < jadew> how do you know that?
2021-03-08T00:31:18 < Steffanx> i dont know
2021-03-08T00:32:05 < jadew> you're making me check the logs
2021-03-08T00:32:17 < Steffanx> he just disappeared
2021-03-08T00:32:26 < jadew> ah, well, people do that
2021-03-08T00:32:48 < Steffanx> same as the original ##stm32 founder. the romanian izua
2021-03-08T00:33:01 < jadew> there comes a time in everyone's lives when they think to themselves "why tf am I spending all this time with those folks I don't even know"
2021-03-08T00:33:20 < Steffanx> time to start meeting them 
2021-03-08T00:33:37 < jadew> you know what, I would love that
2021-03-08T00:34:04 < jadew> I finally came out of puberty, so my face has cleared, I'm ready to meet everyone
2021-03-08T00:35:38 < jadew> if we are to meet, we have to figure out which country has the best quarantine conditions
2021-03-08T00:35:55 < Steffanx> or just wait till its mostly over
2021-03-08T00:36:05 < jadew> with a bit of luck, we can be container neighbours
2021-03-08T00:36:57 < Steffanx> i was even crazy enough to visit tct and leave quite quickly -_-
2021-03-08T00:37:00 < jadew> will it be over tho? we're starting to regress - restaurants going to close again, stricter measures, etc
2021-03-08T00:38:01 < jadew> and they're saying the new mutations are taking hold
2021-03-08T00:38:29 < jadew> I'm sick of this...
2021-03-08T00:38:32 < Steffanx> here they were worried about the british variant, but .. they seem to be less worried about it
2021-03-08T00:40:20 < Steffanx> funny detail. There wasn't a SINGLE case of influenza related flu reported this winter.
2021-03-08T00:40:35 < Steffanx> not a single as in .. there was none.
2021-03-08T00:40:49 < jadew> so... did we get rid of influenza?
2021-03-08T00:41:01 < Steffanx> probably not, but no reported cases in dutchland.
2021-03-08T00:41:44 < Steffanx> there might be multiple reasons for that ofcourse
2021-03-08T00:43:07 < zyp> the obvious one is covid restrictions
2021-03-08T00:43:43 < jadew> but is covid that much more contagious that it survived, while influenza didn't?
2021-03-08T00:44:36 < zyp> well, duh
2021-03-08T00:45:17 < Steffanx> zyp, yeah. But also better hygiene, distancing and perhaps less people visiting a doctor.  
2021-03-08T00:45:46 < Steffanx> They're already happy its not covid.
2021-03-08T00:45:54 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, I meant to include those in «restrictions», but I didn't find a better word
2021-03-08T00:46:04 < Steffanx> hah
2021-03-08T00:46:10 < zyp> we call it tiltak in norwegian, but idk how to translate
2021-03-08T00:46:29 < zyp> measures!
2021-03-08T00:46:34 < Steffanx> yeah was about to say that :0
2021-03-08T00:46:37 < Steffanx> :)
2021-03-08T00:46:47 < zyp> so yeah
2021-03-08T00:47:05 < zyp> any measures against covid would also work against influenza
2021-03-08T00:47:39 < jadew> nr of daily deaths started to rise since schools were opened
2021-03-08T00:49:03 < jadew> scratch that, they're fairly stable yet
2021-03-08T00:49:08 < jadew> nr. of cases started to rise
2021-03-08T00:49:18 < jadew> I assume the nr. of deaths will follow, but we'll see
2021-03-08T00:49:22 < Steffanx> here its pretty stable around 4k/day
2021-03-08T00:49:44 < jadew> did you also open schools?
2021-03-08T00:49:48 < Steffanx> partially
2021-03-08T00:50:05 < Steffanx> like kids go to school for 1.5 days/week
2021-03-08T00:50:58 < jadew> I've heard that from someone else too - what's the reasoning there?
2021-03-08T00:51:19 < jadew> if they get sick, they have time to show symptoms at home?
2021-03-08T00:51:57 < Steffanx> less time together is less chance of mass infection i guess
2021-03-08T00:52:36 < zyp> apparently the mother of a kid in one of the kindergardens here tested positive today
2021-03-08T00:52:52 < jadew> so kindergarten closed?
2021-03-08T00:52:52 < zyp> not the one my kid goes to, but I have a couple of friends with kids there
2021-03-08T00:54:04 < zyp> not sure, I only saw the initial announcement and it said they were still working on contact tracing
2021-03-08T00:54:25 < jadew> they still do that there, eh?
2021-03-08T00:54:38 < jadew> in here they don't care anymore
2021-03-08T00:54:44 < zyp> kindergardens are supposed to be segmented into groups here to limit internal spread, so maybe only the relevant group will be closed
2021-03-08T00:54:52 < jadew> if you know yourself to be a direct contact, you have to stay at home
2021-03-08T00:55:16 < zyp> well, norway still have a fairly low incidence rate
2021-03-08T00:55:25 < zyp> I believe :)
2021-03-08T01:00:05 < kakium69> sup
2021-03-08T01:00:38 < Steffanx> tha sky, kakium69 
2021-03-08T01:01:08 < Steffanx> what about you?
2021-03-08T01:01:13 < kakium69> you blew your cover today steff
2021-03-08T01:03:21 < Steffanx> uh?
2021-03-08T01:04:23 < kakium69> you are not dutch?
2021-03-08T01:05:15 < Steffanx> lol, you must know i am since you received stroopwafels from me.
2021-03-08T01:54:44 < karlp> and still,we'renot going to find out where?
2021-03-08T02:06:47 < Steffanx> Lol dutchland ofcourse where else.
2021-03-08T02:09:14 < karlp> ok. hold up.
2021-03-08T02:10:43 < karlp> 13:41:24*     Steffanx | im not dutch luckily
2021-03-08T02:11:01 < karlp> what are you asking us to resolve internally now?
2021-03-08T02:11:15 < Steffanx> Damn it. It was Sunday. I can't be serious on Sundays 
2021-03-08T02:12:16 < karlp> well, it'ðs irc, nothing's real
2021-03-08T02:12:47 < Steffanx> True that
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2021-03-08T02:15:04 < Steffanx> Since you like the eurovision song contest. Enjoy our new amazing entry karlp 
2021-03-08T02:15:06 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/osE3fnQ5LkA
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2021-03-08T02:16:18 < karlp> we're so fucked
2021-03-08T02:16:27 < karlp> we were _so_ finally going to win last year
2021-03-08T02:16:31 < karlp> now it's just... same again
2021-03-08T02:16:43 < karlp> nice outfits :)
2021-03-08T02:17:06 < karlp> ohboy, I really have to do eurovision again this year don't I.
2021-03-08T02:20:52 < Steffanx> Nah no you dont
2021-03-08T02:21:26 < Steffanx> The dutch contestant sings in english and surinamese... im like: dutch (???!!)
2021-03-08T02:22:51 < Steffanx> But then I realise I don't really care, won't watch it anyway 
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2021-03-08T06:41:10 < emeb_mac> So, I got my SD card data buffering thing starting to work and learned a lot in the process...
2021-03-08T06:43:02 < emeb_mac> * don't use the HAL SD PIO access routines if there's any chance of higher priority IRQs interrupting the PIO loop that keeps the SD FIFOs running. The FIFOs aren't very deep and if they under/overflow then that basically locks up the SDIO hardware.
2021-03-08T06:44:31 < emeb_mac> * If there are IRQs, use the DMA routines. Note that these are non-blocking, so you'll have to turn on the SD IRQ to handle the completion cleanup, but HAL has default handlers for this that work OK.
2021-03-08T06:46:31 < emeb_mac> * Don't try to use the HAL GetCardState() function to determine if the DMA is running. Instead, use the completion callback to set a flag and wait for that. 
2021-03-08T06:48:19 < emeb_mac> * That's not enough though - even after DMA finishes the SD card may still be busy doing its own housekeeping, but at this point it's safe to use GetCardState() so loop on that until the card is done.
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2021-03-08T06:53:35 < emeb_mac> * If you're on a part that has caching remember to tickle the cache properly for the DMA buffers.
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2021-03-08T11:53:47 < Laurenceb> oh my guurrrfddd
2021-03-08T11:53:53 < Laurenceb> I'm guna Megan
2021-03-08T11:54:08 < Laurenceb> cant stop talking about Megan
2021-03-08T11:55:54  * Laurenceb walked round his old school this morning
2021-03-08T11:56:09 < Laurenceb> looks mental, fences and covid testing points and shit everywhere
2021-03-08T11:57:35 < jadew> you got a new g/f Laurenceb?
2021-03-08T11:57:35 < Laurenceb> also they built a 3m steel fence with razor wire round the whole site lmao
2021-03-08T11:57:42 < Laurenceb> the state of modern schools
2021-03-08T11:57:46 < Laurenceb> jadew: wut?
2021-03-08T11:57:57 < Laurenceb> its like a prison for children now
2021-03-08T11:58:07 < jadew> Megan - is she your g/f?
2021-03-08T11:58:20 < jadew> what does guurrrfddd means?
2021-03-08T11:58:20 < Laurenceb> Megan Markle you tard
2021-03-08T11:58:37 < Laurenceb> all the normie retards are talking about her non stop
2021-03-08T11:58:58 < jadew> google says she's a duchess
2021-03-08T11:59:14 < jadew> is she the new Diana?
2021-03-08T11:59:25 < Laurenceb> when I was at school there were no fences, just 2 or three teachers who would let you leave if you were 6th form or a prefect
2021-03-08T11:59:48 < Laurenceb> now its like 3m Mexico wall with smart card locks wtf
2021-03-08T12:00:12 < jadew> well, that's what a good school looks like these days
2021-03-08T12:00:20 < jadew> you don't want creeps getting in
2021-03-08T12:00:24 < Laurenceb> keeekkk
2021-03-08T12:00:32 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2021-03-08T12:00:56 < Laurenceb> literally looks like a prison camp
2021-03-08T12:01:02 < Laurenceb> which is ironic because it is
2021-03-08T12:01:11 < Laurenceb> from ww2
2021-03-08T12:01:16 < jadew> seriously, it's easy/cheap and the benefits are great, at least for the peace of mind of the parents
2021-03-08T12:01:35 < jadew> right, that's the one with asbestos in the walls?
2021-03-08T12:01:58 < jadew> I think you talked about it at one point
2021-03-08T12:02:03 < Laurenceb> yes, lots of lined up huts
2021-03-08T12:03:10 < Laurenceb> >pupils have to wear RFID tags
2021-03-08T12:03:12 < Laurenceb> keeeekkkk
2021-03-08T12:03:20 < jadew> lol
2021-03-08T12:03:23 < Laurenceb> >literally like a dog
2021-03-08T12:03:35 < jadew> ok, that's a bit excessive
2021-03-08T12:03:44 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-08T12:03:44 < jadew> they can't recognize them?
2021-03-08T12:03:55 < Laurenceb> it operates the gates aiui
2021-03-08T12:04:06 < Laurenceb> also prefects are locked in all day too now lmao
2021-03-08T12:04:33 < Laurenceb> I thought school sucked when I was there, its ten times worse now
2021-03-08T12:05:45 < zyp> let you leave?
2021-03-08T12:05:50 < jadew> back in my day, we had a gate keeper
2021-03-08T12:06:08 < Laurenceb> yeah you could walk around city center or whatever at break time if you were >16 and a prefect
2021-03-08T12:06:12 < jadew> so it's not like you could just walk out the gate...
2021-03-08T12:06:16 < jadew> you had to jump the fence
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2021-03-08T12:06:39 < Laurenceb> yeah same here, teacher by the gates
2021-03-08T12:07:59 < zyp> I don't think my school even had gates
2021-03-08T12:08:14 < jadew> haha
2021-03-08T12:08:22 < Laurenceb> keek UK versus Norway
2021-03-08T12:09:15 < jadew> my son's school doesn't have gates, just one door and a tall fence
2021-03-08T12:09:29 < zyp> rural norway, to be fair
2021-03-08T12:09:50 < jadew> and the door is locked, you have to ring the intercom
2021-03-08T12:09:51 < zyp> but yeah, I don't think my school had any physical means to keep kids in
2021-03-08T12:10:31 < jadew> well, the schools I was in were not very successful at that, despite having gates
2021-03-08T12:10:48 < jadew> proof is my attendance record
2021-03-08T12:11:36 < jadew> I guess I didn't skip school that often before highschool tho
2021-03-08T12:11:55 < zyp> if you're not trusted to stay at school during the day, are you also not trusted to go to school and back home on your own?
2021-03-08T12:12:21 < jadew> I was always trusted with this
2021-03-08T12:12:28 < jadew> wrongly
2021-03-08T12:13:07 < jadew> I think I started skipping classes in the second year of highschool and yeah, that included not showing up at all
2021-03-08T12:14:24 < jadew> that was a happy time
2021-03-08T12:16:09 < t4nk_freenode> LOL, Steffanx .... https://twitter.com/thierrybaudet/status/1368837453415583752
2021-03-08T12:16:34 < t4nk_freenode> I was sat at my desk, and I heard a lot of damned noise over my head a while back
2021-03-08T12:16:52 < t4nk_freenode> didn't bother to get up, but found that tweet 
2021-03-08T12:17:27 < t4nk_freenode> oops, there was a caption I forgot: "Wanneer je Tom Cruise op aliexpress besteld."
2021-03-08T12:17:54 < t4nk_freenode> (that was a quote, bestelT of course, but I guess spelling errors are a side effect of jabbing)
2021-03-08T12:18:31 < t4nk_freenode> LOL.. order Cruise, get Baudet ;)
2021-03-08T12:23:19 < Steffanx> Will you vote for him now?
2021-03-08T12:23:41 < t4nk_freenode> hell no ;)
2021-03-08T12:26:47 < t4nk_freenode> not gonna vote at all, I AM however receiving some packages from AE today.. let's hope baudet isn't in em ;)
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2021-03-08T14:48:51 < zyp>               total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
2021-03-08T14:48:51 < zyp> Mem:          80226        3254       74846         493        2125       75761
2021-03-08T14:48:58 < zyp> hope that's enough for a while
2021-03-08T15:08:58 < qyx> how many kitties died for 80G
2021-03-08T15:09:53 < zyp> now maybe I'll have enough to run cubemx
2021-03-08T15:11:05 < mawk> lol
2021-03-08T15:12:32 < jadew> do you really need that much memory?
2021-03-08T15:13:33 < fenugrec> each browser tab is a few 100MB
2021-03-08T15:13:51 < zyp> idk, I'd rather have more than I need than less
2021-03-08T15:13:53 < jadew> so... 800 tabs?
2021-03-08T15:14:24 < jadew> ah, a few 100 MB - are you sure?
2021-03-08T15:14:31 < fenugrec> heh, what a luxury - never need to close a tab ever again !
2021-03-08T15:14:37 < qyx> I've run 1000+ tabs on 8G of memory
2021-03-08T15:14:42 < zyp> 16 is obviously not enough, as I managed to run out hard enough for the entire system to grind to a halt last week
2021-03-08T15:14:43 < mawk> ms outlook tabs is 300MiB
2021-03-08T15:14:58 < mawk> and it's the biggest on my system
2021-03-08T15:14:59 < fenugrec> depends on what's in the tab, but no, I was just making up a number.
2021-03-08T15:15:23 < mawk> small light tab with not much js is 50MiB
2021-03-08T15:15:29 < mawk> so I guess your number is right
2021-03-08T15:16:02 < jadew> I'm due to an upgrade as well, but I haven't thought about how much memory
2021-03-08T15:16:06 < jadew> I thought 32 would suffice
2021-03-08T15:16:24 < mawk> I have 32 too, but it's not enough to build some programs
2021-03-08T15:16:32 < mawk> 64 would be better to build llvm
2021-03-08T15:16:52 < fenugrec> yea if you want to compile gcc/qt in a tmpfs with make -j16, then 32 may not be enough...
2021-03-08T15:17:13 < mawk> even outside tmpfs, llvm took more than 32
2021-03-08T15:17:41 < fenugrec> with -j8 or something ? gcc wasn't too bad IIRC
2021-03-08T15:18:14 < zyp> I had 32 at home until one ram stick died last year, leaving me with 24, and that's sometimes not enough
2021-03-08T15:18:14 < mawk> yeah -j8 I think
2021-03-08T15:18:50 < mawk> but it was the link that took all memory, so the -j wasn't taken into account
2021-03-08T15:20:15 < jadew> looks like ~$400 for 64 GB
2021-03-08T15:20:25 < jadew> it's going to be an expensive upgrade
2021-03-08T15:20:34 < mawk> don't take ecc mem
2021-03-08T15:20:46 < mawk> nobody needs that
2021-03-08T15:20:47 < jadew> what's that?
2021-03-08T15:21:14 < mawk> memory that doesn't corrupt itself over time
2021-03-08T15:21:16 < mawk> for servers and so on
2021-03-08T15:21:21 < mawk> ecc = error code correction
2021-03-08T15:21:24 < mawk> error correction code*
2021-03-08T15:21:41 < jadew> yeah, google cleared that up, I assume it's more expensive?
2021-03-08T15:21:49 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-08T15:22:03 < mawk> it's a special controller on the ram stick
2021-03-08T15:22:04 < jadew> I promise you I will order by price :)
2021-03-08T15:22:12 < mawk> lol
2021-03-08T15:22:49 < zyp> I don't think there's anything special on the ram stick itself, it's just wider
2021-03-08T15:23:05 < zyp> 72b wide instead of 64b
2021-03-08T15:23:40 < jpa-> yeah, i think nowadays it is just wider.. a decade back or something there was some other difference with ECC being often "fully buffered RAM"
2021-03-08T15:23:46 < fenugrec> mobo needs to support it IIRC 
2021-03-08T15:24:19 < jpa-> .. looks like two decades back
2021-03-08T15:24:33 < fenugrec> so I have good memory
2021-03-08T15:25:26 < zyp> buffered and ECC are orthogonal
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2021-03-08T15:44:05 < englishman> ecc seems like a great idea tbh even for normal computing
2021-03-08T15:44:13 < effractur> it is
2021-03-08T15:44:14 < englishman> no idea why intel has been raging against it for 20+ years
2021-03-08T15:44:15 < effractur> but intel
2021-03-08T15:44:18 < englishman> ^^
2021-03-08T15:44:30 < effractur> well its a thing to upsell stuff
2021-03-08T15:52:00 < PaulFertser> FUCK Intel
2021-03-08T15:52:11 < PaulFertser> Dirty arseholes
2021-03-08T15:52:16 < Laurenceb> keek wtf
2021-03-08T15:52:35 < Laurenceb> >all uk mps ordered to sign up to tiktok
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2021-03-08T15:54:40 < PaulFertser> Intel premier support is really rage-inducing.
2021-03-08T17:02:32 < Steffanx> Upsell stuff? Even my pentium g4560 does it. It was like 50 euro bucks 
2021-03-08T17:03:05 < effractur> yes and the pentium g4560 is like the only thing 
2021-03-08T17:03:08 < effractur> in that series that does ecc
2021-03-08T17:04:47 < Steffanx> And i3-6300/7100. Good "old" skylake/kaby lake
2021-03-08T17:05:12 < Steffanx> But yeah now the lower end ones don't support it
2021-03-08T17:05:38 < effractur> yea but all the highend stuff never
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2021-03-08T18:03:44 < Laurenceb> ywlts state mandated tiktok
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2021-03-08T18:25:25 < karlp> yuk: https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/using-pypi-packages-with-gdb
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2021-03-08T18:26:16 < karlp> surely there's a betterw ay?
2021-03-08T18:27:10 < karlp> Imean, it's at least a pretty clever way of doing it, but really, runnig python to print out things to feed back into python?
2021-03-08T18:28:34  * karlp installs python2.7 ....
2021-03-08T18:28:39 < karlp> nice one gdb
2021-03-08T18:28:59 < karlp> I guess I could update arm tools too...
2021-03-08T18:44:16 < jpa-> karlp: is that a terribly long way of saying to put sys.path.append("/path/to/my/libs") in .gdbinit?
2021-03-08T18:45:18 < jpa-> i don't know why he wants it to be automatic, as opposed to just hardcoding '/Users/tyler/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages'
2021-03-08T18:46:14 < jpa-> for me, setting PYTHONPATH= works also
2021-03-08T18:48:56 < jpa-> i think venv also has activate_this.py that one can import to running python interpreter
2021-03-08T18:51:57 < karlp> well, the nice thing is that even if you've activated the venv before launching gdb, it gets ignored
2021-03-08T18:52:13 < karlp> you could manually set single path in gdb init yes.
2021-03-08T18:52:23 < karlp> activate_this is interesting, didn't know that.
2021-03-08T18:52:46  * karlp just had to re-re-remember how to turn on the right pretty printing options to make his gdb plugins work
2021-03-08T18:52:58 < fenugrec> .gdbinit
2021-03-08T18:53:23 < fenugrec> it's nice having a per-project gdbinit too for some stuff
2021-03-08T19:08:18 < Laurenceb> keeek bribong news
2021-03-08T19:08:43 < Laurenceb> >celeb reporter: Prime minister, do you think the Queen is a wacist??
2021-03-08T19:11:54 < Laurenceb> inb4 the Queen gets cancelled
2021-03-08T19:42:42 < t4nk_freenode> zyp... run openscad and start rendering... you'll be crying to y0 mamma on the phone before you know it ;)
2021-03-08T19:43:42 < Laurenceb> >Megan interview was the most significant event since the moon landing
2021-03-08T19:43:49 < Laurenceb> keek thhe state
2021-03-08T19:57:25 < aandrew> Laurenceb: lol
2021-03-08T19:58:04 < Laurenceb> tbh the Prime Minister should have just replied "yeah the Queen is a massive racist" for epin lulz
2021-03-08T20:01:20 < aandrew> she's the OG colonizer
2021-03-08T20:02:41 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-08T20:25:18 < mawk> Steffanx: there is a giant sign with written "OK VROUW" on the city hall square of delft
2021-03-08T20:25:20 < mawk> did you do this??
2021-03-08T20:26:47 < Steffanx> Yes, ofcourse
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2021-03-08T21:14:36 < t4nk_freenode> he probably wanted to let the world know his gender transfo was a success
2021-03-08T21:25:48 < PaulFertser> "I am currently starting to work on a project that uses a GD32E230 CPU (due to ST's inability to ship parts in the required volume for the next year or so :-()."
2021-03-08T21:32:36 < PaulFertser> He later says the peripherals of this new GD thing are similar to STM32F0.
2021-03-08T21:35:28 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-08T21:49:41 < Steffanx> i wonder how much trouble we'll have at work. used stm32 quite often
2021-03-08T21:50:29 < fenugrec> is anyone using "iprintf" (from newlib-nano) instead of printf ? Testing here still links in the huge printf
2021-03-08T21:57:03 < PaulFertser> Embrace the future Steffanx, choose chink stuff before it's too late.
2021-03-08T22:06:53 < Steffanx> Nah
2021-03-08T22:07:05 < Steffanx> I'm not entirely convinced by gd32
2021-03-08T22:07:24 < Steffanx> Risc V is the future right?
2021-03-08T22:08:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: MIPS seems to be switching to RISC V, yes.
2021-03-08T22:09:53 < PaulFertser> https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wave-computing-and-mips-emerge-from-chapter-11-bankruptcy-301237051.html
2021-03-08T22:10:25 < karlp> lots of creative book keepinghappening inthat 
2021-03-08T22:10:43 < PaulFertser> So MIPS went bankrupt? Good thing, they got what they deserved for Lexra.
2021-03-08T22:10:57 < karlp> well, what is "mips"
2021-03-08T22:11:18 < karlp> it split and sold and the name went in multiple places and a lot of it sounded very creatively accounted
2021-03-08T22:14:51 < mawk> omg PaulFertser said chink
2021-03-08T22:14:58 < mawk> what happened to you paul
2021-03-08T22:16:00 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm tired to be an outcast. Trying to fit in. Started with ##stm32.
2021-03-08T22:17:22 < mawk> is it navalniy's sulforous past comments that made you finally see the Truth?
2021-03-08T22:17:23 < mawk> ah lol
2021-03-08T22:17:35 < mawk> the dongsification of outsiders, a social phenomena
2021-03-08T22:17:41 < mawk> there's a thesis to be done here
2021-03-08T22:20:33 < mawk> https://serveur.io/eink_multiline_regions.jpg
2021-03-08T22:20:47 < mawk> my e-ink graphics library is starting to be solid
2021-03-08T22:21:04 < mawk> the eink code is just 1/3 of the codebase actually, it could work for any kind of screen
2021-03-08T22:21:17 < karlp> weird, simplicity studio on fedora 32 on my laptop, works fine,installed cleanly, no issues.
2021-03-08T22:21:26 < karlp> at home, errors, laggy, screen all broken display
2021-03-08T22:21:53 < mawk> fedora too?
2021-03-08T22:21:58 < karlp> both fed 32
2021-03-08T22:22:03 < mawk> a
2021-03-08T22:23:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: that looks nice!
2021-03-08T22:23:39 < karlp> gonna have to bring the work one home to find out...
2021-03-08T22:26:06 < mawk> PaulFertser: I can define screen regions, have nice borders, then provide text that will automatically break when the size is too big, and handles \n for manual line breaks
2021-03-08T22:26:24 < mawk> I could add rotation into the mix but it's already annoying enough right now
2021-03-08T22:26:30 < mawk> maybe later
2021-03-08T22:27:33 < karlp> simplicity studio instaler for ubuntu installs wine32?
2021-03-08T22:33:45  * qyx notes NXP AN4075 for calculating accelerometer SNR, PSD, ENOB
2021-03-08T22:37:41 < zyp> jadew, re: kindergarden, apparently they decided to remain open today
2021-03-08T22:39:05 < zyp> contact tracing concluded mother got infected last wednesday, kid didn't go on friday and mother were unlikely to be contagious already on thursday
2021-03-08T22:45:13 < karlp> I wonder what this is missing, nothing obvious frrom the name or the web :) https://paste.jvnv.net/view/z4PzX
2021-03-08T22:51:27 < karlp> looks like jxbrowser is busted, but that's a pay project, so *shrugs*
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2021-03-08T22:58:09 < Laurenceb> > calculating accelerometer SNR, PSD, ENOB
2021-03-08T22:58:26 < Laurenceb> ><zyp> jadew, re: kindergarden, apparently they decided to remain open today
2021-03-08T22:58:30 < Laurenceb> accurate
2021-03-08T22:58:48 < Laurenceb> how bit count formed
2021-03-08T23:10:21 < Laurenceb> tfw dongs is now less wacist than the kween
2021-03-08T23:26:28 < Steffanx> Laurenceb is more britbong than he wants to admit. He cares too much about the british royal family.
2021-03-08T23:45:29 < t4nk_freenode>  Steffanx, just for the goede orde; where would go and buy your ts100 if you were to?
2021-03-08T23:46:04 < Steffanx> Just for the good order?
2021-03-08T23:46:12 < t4nk_freenode> yeah
2021-03-08T23:46:41 < t4nk_freenode> I saw them at ali, but I think that's a nono in this case
2021-03-08T23:46:55 < Steffanx> China if I could wait a few weeks,  eleshop or something if I wanted it fast?
2021-03-08T23:47:07 < Steffanx> Note: I don't own such ijzer.
2021-03-08T23:47:35 < t4nk_freenode> I shall once ff see what shop is
2021-03-08T23:49:47 < Steffanx> You dont know eleshop?!?!
2021-03-08T23:50:36 < t4nk_freenode> 'heard of the name'
--- Day changed Tue Mar 09 2021
2021-03-09T00:02:40 < t4nk_freenode> on a sunny day, I could almost get there by bike
2021-03-09T00:05:58 < Steffanx> Bicycle *
2021-03-09T00:08:13 < Laurenceb> *ur mum
2021-03-09T00:08:27 < t4nk_freenode> whoa, tip cleaning device... 453euros
2021-03-09T00:09:35 < Laurenceb> https://s01.geekpic.net/di-AWQN11.jpeg
2021-03-09T00:11:44 < Laurenceb> https://s01.geekpic.net/di-P0FI61.png
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2021-03-09T00:34:40 < karlp> I think I should just buy a shitty scope again. I don't _do_ anything that needs a nicec one.
2021-03-09T00:35:22 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/ZBF5ftq Laurenceb is this your work?
2021-03-09T00:37:53 < Laurenceb> kek
2021-03-09T00:43:57 < qyx> I'll trade my 250€ owon for 250€ riglol
2021-03-09T00:43:59 < qyx> karlp: ^
2021-03-09T00:45:36 < karlp> which owon do you have and what don't you like about it?
2021-03-09T00:46:04 < Steffanx> Mr jpa wasn't too happy either 
2021-03-09T00:46:16 < karlp> that was with a really cheap bench dmm
2021-03-09T00:46:24 < karlp> I'd still like to the the real _why_
2021-03-09T00:46:32 < karlp> I mean, I don't like the riglol at work, it's horrible.
2021-03-09T00:46:37 < qyx> all rotary encoders are barely functional
2021-03-09T00:46:47 < karlp> I know the 10xxZ is a new series compard to my old thing, but I still hate it.
2021-03-09T00:46:52 < Steffanx> Oh, I thought he also got a scope.
2021-03-09T00:47:10 < qyx> Owon SDS6062E
2021-03-09T00:48:27 < karlp> hrm, the current ones are owon XDS, meant to be an improved new line.
2021-03-09T00:49:27 < qyx> for the same price
2021-03-09T00:52:48 < qyx> hm, it also has a DMM input
2021-03-09T00:52:56 < qyx> and a battery pack
2021-03-09T00:53:04 < qyx> (the new one)
2021-03-09T01:04:00 < englishman> lol my owon encoders have sucked since day 1
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2021-03-09T01:16:48 < Steffanx> englishman: does owon?
2021-03-09T01:17:03 < Steffanx> Or was that in a previous life
2021-03-09T01:17:08 < englishman> ?
2021-03-09T01:17:33 < englishman> it was my first scope
2021-03-09T01:17:44 < englishman> still have it handy as it's battery powered
2021-03-09T01:27:11 < zyp> I think I'd go for a MSO5000 if I were putting money into a new scope
2021-03-09T01:27:46 < zyp> but then again I have a working DS1042C, so it wouldn't make sense to put money into something that weren't a decent improvement
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2021-03-09T07:35:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: the scope i got was rigol DS1054Z; it's been mostly ok, just some small annoyances with the menus & the multifunction encoder knob is a bit small for my shaky fingers
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2021-03-09T08:43:29 < emeb_mac> very happy with my Siglent sds1104x-e. 4chl 100MHz (1GSPS) with i2c/spi/serial decoding for ~$400
2021-03-09T08:44:56 < emeb_mac> buddy of mine just got a bricked Hantek and was able to restore it by hacking into the Linux serial port and doing some fiddling around with the filesystem. He says it's very poorly coded & the scope locks up frequently.
2021-03-09T08:45:43 < R2COM> my DS4024 just works
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2021-03-09T11:11:27 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild
2021-03-09T11:18:11 < jpa-> these jlcpcb shrink-bubblewrap bags are very annoying to open
2021-03-09T11:21:52 < jadew> you need a cutter
2021-03-09T12:00:47 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/jumper.jpg   they seem to have prepopulated a jumper, even though i didn't order any SMT assembly
2021-03-09T12:09:26 < mawk> that's a jumper?
2021-03-09T12:09:34 < mawk> isn't it just 3 pins bridged?
2021-03-09T12:10:36 < jpa-> sorry, it was a daddy joke
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2021-03-09T12:34:15 < zyp> heh
2021-03-09T12:53:52 < qyx> zyp: were your boards $15 each as you said recently?
2021-03-09T12:54:04 < qyx> was that 4L + assembly?
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2021-03-09T12:54:22 < qyx> I didn't catch your answer, idk if you responded
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2021-03-09T13:08:53 < karlp> hrm, anyone got a "mroe than 8bit" scope and is it worth it?
2021-03-09T13:12:04 < karlp> huh, re the 2 channels vs 4 channels for mso5000, rigol even sells that as a selling point, "buy two channels, all four are there! just license it later, so easy!"
2021-03-09T13:12:24 < karlp> like, straight up in their litereature.
2021-03-09T13:12:26 < karlp> weird as shit
2021-03-09T13:12:46 < englishman> it
2021-03-09T13:12:49 < englishman> 's pretty smart
2021-03-09T13:13:01 < englishman> i used a 12-bit tek, not sure you'd see the difference.
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2021-03-09T13:13:49 < karlp> I wonder if I can ever go on a work trip again and buy somewhere in europe and avoid paying vat on it.
2021-03-09T13:14:16 < englishman> how are the vax coming along on your little island?
2021-03-09T13:14:19 < PaulFertser> Fuck, Intel's ME is messing with the management ethernet in our server even with the host completely turned off! I removed the EFI flash IC from panel without turning on and the link is stable now!
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2021-03-09T13:16:02 < karlp> englishman: slow but steady, same supply problems as aother parts of europe
2021-03-09T13:17:22 < englishman> they've already cancelled the summer activities here
2021-03-09T13:23:09 < jpa-> i definitely notice the quantization on 8-bit rigol; it is a bit dumb in how it doesn't seem to have more than 8 bits vertical resolution even at lower timescales
2021-03-09T13:23:19 < jpa-> seems like a software issue that it doesn't average it
2021-03-09T13:23:42 < jpa-> or rather, it averages it (because no aliasing), but the result is clipped to 8 bits anyway
2021-03-09T13:29:03 < jpa-> my gut feeling is that 10 or 12-bit would be worth it for any analog work, but with mostly digital stuff doesn't matter at all
2021-03-09T13:29:43 < jpa-> and if the software can do oversampling, then no need for >8-bit at highest speeds
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2021-03-09T14:00:44 < zyp> qyx, $16-ish/ea assembled, 4L ENIG, including parts and shipping
2021-03-09T14:02:13 < zyp> I've also powered them all up, and neither has a shorted vdd rail, which rules out a lot of typical issues
2021-03-09T14:04:14 < zyp> biggest downside with jlcpcb at this point is part availability, you can only have them assemble what they can supply, and only single sided
2021-03-09T14:08:55 < qyx> whoa $16 is what 4L ENIG costs without assembling
2021-03-09T14:09:38 < qyx> hm, no, it is much cheaper now
2021-03-09T14:10:32 < qyx> 5 pcs 4L ENIG is 20€
2021-03-09T14:15:09 < zyp> my boards were $30
2021-03-09T14:15:23 < zyp> and ENIG were $10 of that, IIRC
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2021-03-09T14:22:28 < qyx> aisler does 4L 3pcs for 32€ too
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2021-03-09T15:09:20 < karlp> can aisler ship two orders in one parcel yet? :)
2021-03-09T15:22:18 < invzim> I thought most digital scopes were 8bit?
2021-03-09T15:28:16 < karlp> lots of them are advertisingmore these days, even in cheaper ones.
2021-03-09T15:28:26 < karlp> but still lot sof expensive ones at 8bit, so... that's why I was asking
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2021-03-09T15:55:05 < karlp> heh, running into a problem, search for it, finda bug report, find that I personally commented on it 5 years ago :| https://bz.apache.org/netbeans/show_bug.cgi?id=262404
2021-03-09T16:20:24 < Ultrasauce> the worst part of any ide is the buildsystem
2021-03-09T16:21:27 < karlp> ok, well, I just launched netbeans after setting up the esp32 toolcahin from the commandline, and now I've got netbeans completion and shit for it, all works nicely now.
2021-03-09T16:21:41 < karlp> little bit wonky to setup, but already better than the vscode :<
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2021-03-09T16:41:56 < bitmask> my way overpriced power supply has arrived
2021-03-09T16:43:14 < Mangy_Dog> the modular thing?
2021-03-09T16:43:15 < Mangy_Dog> woohoo
2021-03-09T16:43:35 < bitmask> yea
2021-03-09T16:43:38 < Mangy_Dog> hehe
2021-03-09T16:43:43 < Mangy_Dog> i expect reviews
2021-03-09T16:44:04 < bitmask> of course :)
2021-03-09T16:46:24 < bitmask> hmm, how do you measure over 1kV with a meter that only goes up to 1kV
2021-03-09T16:47:30 < Mangy_Dog> hmmmm
2021-03-09T16:47:33 < Mangy_Dog> id say dont
2021-03-09T16:47:36 < bitmask> heh
2021-03-09T16:47:44 < bitmask> I guess i dont need to but im just curious
2021-03-09T16:48:21 < Mangy_Dog> id just say its the peak but you want your peak to be way above what you want
2021-03-09T16:48:21 < bitmask> using a bug zapper as a power supply for something, I know its over 1kv
2021-03-09T16:48:48 < bitmask> probably not much over but still over
2021-03-09T16:48:56 < jpa-> resistor divider
2021-03-09T16:49:04 < fenugrec> resistive divider 1:10 etc..
2021-03-09T16:49:19 < bitmask> wasn't sure that would work with high voltages, dunno why
2021-03-09T16:49:19 < jpa-> take all your 100kohm resistors and put 10 in series, measure over one of them
2021-03-09T16:49:51 < bitmask> sounds reasonable
2021-03-09T16:49:51 < fenugrec> ^ . Small 1/4w resistors are not rated very high voltage usually IIRC
2021-03-09T16:50:06 < bitmask> yea thats what im worried about
2021-03-09T16:50:12 < bitmask> breakdown voltage
2021-03-09T16:51:50 < jpa-> even SMD ones can do 100-200V by the spec, and more than that for random hacks
2021-03-09T16:52:33 < bitmask> i'll see what I have, I have a lot of cheapo ones and then real ones with specs but not as many
2021-03-09T16:53:14 < jpa-> just put a long enough chain, instead of trying to use just 2 resistors for a divider
2021-03-09T16:55:16 < karlp> there's an atmel reference design that uses 7 220k resistors in series...
2021-03-09T16:55:22 < karlp> lets you use plain cheap ones, 
2021-03-09T16:55:29 < karlp> instead of dedicated high voltage ones.
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2021-03-09T16:55:35 < karlp> if you've got the space, no problem
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2021-03-09T16:56:24 < karlp> 2x2010 HV resistors is more expensive, but smaller than 4 0805 HV resistors, and 7-8 plain 0603 resistors are cheaper still, but bigger.
2021-03-09T16:57:58 < bitmask> k
2021-03-09T16:58:27 < bitmask> definitely dont need to keep it small so i'll use what I have
2021-03-09T17:00:28 < fenugrec> what are ##stm32 's favorite git pretty-formats for firmware version strings ? I like "f2a2654,2021-03-09"  (from "%h, %as"), or some I,ve seen with a tagname+hash, or # of commits-since-tag
2021-03-09T17:01:14 < fenugrec> we should have a list of these on zypsnips
2021-03-09T17:02:58 < zyp> any of those really
2021-03-09T17:03:27 < jpa-> i use    $(shell git rev-parse --short=8 HEAD)+$(shell git diff | wc -l)   (makefile syntax)
2021-03-09T17:03:41 < jpa-> just in case i have local uncommitted mods
2021-03-09T17:04:05 < zyp> tags are useful if the project is releasing often enough, and in that case you also wants a commit since
2021-03-09T17:04:09 < zyp> commits since
2021-03-09T17:04:20 < zyp> and then hash+dirty flag is unambiguous
2021-03-09T17:06:23 < fenugrec> appending the "+dirty" needs a bit of extra buildsys magic though
2021-03-09T17:06:59 < karlp> just use git describe --dirty
2021-03-09T17:07:31 < karlp> rev-parse hacking is frrom 20 year old code before describe was available?
2021-03-09T17:08:38 < aandrew> I use this
2021-03-09T17:08:38 < aandrew> BUILD_AUTHOR := $(shell git config --global user.name | sed 's/[. ]//g')
2021-03-09T17:08:38 < aandrew> BUILD_COMMIT := $(shell git rev-parse HEAD | cut -c 1-7)
2021-03-09T17:08:39 < aandrew> BUILD_DIRTY  := $(shell git diff --quiet > /dev/null 2>&1; echo $$? )
2021-03-09T17:09:20 < fenugrec> karlp, describe needs tags though right ? "git describe --all --dirty" doesn't show a hash
2021-03-09T17:09:27 < karlp> just put a tag on your repo?
2021-03-09T17:09:42 < karlp> even just one at project start is enough....
2021-03-09T17:09:51 < karlp> but like, you're doing releases and not using tags?! why?
2021-03-09T17:10:04 < karlp> I mean, aandrerw has got six or something shells there.
2021-03-09T17:10:26 < karlp> if you use release tags, you can get nice git revs as well, 
2021-03-09T17:10:35 < karlp> karlp@beros:~/src/gs-cbms3 (master *)$ git describe --dirty
2021-03-09T17:10:36 < fenugrec> I'm not doing releases yet. Just not at a point worthy of a tag yet, putting a version string to differentiate different dev builds
2021-03-09T17:10:37 < karlp> gate-v2.28.1-3-gf1330941-dirty
2021-03-09T17:10:52 < karlp> just put a tag where you like that says "dev-0.1" then?
2021-03-09T17:11:03 < fenugrec> too easy
2021-03-09T17:11:16 < karlp> sure :)
2021-03-09T17:11:35 < karlp> I mena, you can add tags to like commit 0 even, you cant ever "miss the boat" with putting a tag in.
2021-03-09T17:11:53 < aandrew> are you pid constrained or is spawning a shell somehow an appreciable part of your build system? :-)
2021-03-09T17:12:21 < karlp> aandrew: no, but it does add up in big system buildroots where everyproject is doing that.
2021-03-09T17:12:36 < Ultrasauce> git rev-list @ | wc -l    for total commits is a nice addition sometimes too
2021-03-09T17:13:10 < aandrew> not sure why I'd be interested in how many commits there are
2021-03-09T17:13:11 < karlp> as long as you dont' have too many comits for the generation to take so long ;)
2021-03-09T17:13:18 < qyx> fenugrec: https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/develop/version.SConscript
2021-03-09T17:13:22 < karlp> people like "total" commits because they got used to them from svn
2021-03-09T17:13:42 < karlp> and they think the monotonically increasing "commit number" is the only way of preserving linear time.
2021-03-09T17:13:53 < karlp> tags with versions +  commits past tag poitn is awesome.
2021-03-09T17:13:57 < fenugrec> it's easier to compare recentness of "commit numbers" than hashes or even dates IMO
2021-03-09T17:14:11 < karlp> and you get that automatically with git describe....
2021-03-09T17:14:28 < aandrew> why not just use secodns since epoch if all you're after is an incrementing number
2021-03-09T17:14:29 < karlp> I don't knwo why people go all out with revparsing and listing and custom cut and sed to get lengths they "like"
2021-03-09T17:14:44 < karlp> aandrew: well, it's still meant ot be trackable to a commit :)
2021-03-09T17:15:06 < karlp> do we at least all agree that tex versioning is silly?
2021-03-09T17:15:16 < aandrew> of course
2021-03-09T17:15:44 < qyx> fenugrec: for feature branches I am appending the "version" of the develop branch they are branched off, name of the branch, number of commits since branching and as a metadata (after the "+") the hash itself and date
2021-03-09T17:15:59 < aandrew> I don't mind a commit+dirty+*build number* because that tells you if you're running the exact binary you want, because a new compiler rebuilding the exact same commit might give different results
2021-03-09T17:16:01 < fenugrec> see, all this is good stuff for a zypsnip P)
2021-03-09T17:16:21 < qyx> for something like bin/name-board-0.6.0-app-build.8+bb18e33.20210309.elf
2021-03-09T17:16:36 < fenugrec> that's a lot of info
2021-03-09T17:17:22 < karlp> fenugrec: no, because there's one true way, and I maintain zypsnips :)
2021-03-09T17:17:46 < karlp> qyx: that sounds crazy, if it's a dev feature test build, you just find it from the githash
2021-03-09T17:18:32 < qyx> git describe --dirty gives me 0.6.0-dev-40-gbb18e33-dirty
2021-03-09T17:18:49 < qyx> not the feature branch
2021-03-09T17:20:46 < karlp> yes, but it's still 40 commits away from the tag, and the git rev is bb18e33
2021-03-09T17:21:03 < karlp> feature branche names are local developer choice, why would I want that in any released text?
2021-03-09T17:21:23 < qyx> because ci/cd produces such artifacts for testing
2021-03-09T17:21:43 < qyx> and I find it good when I see which feature is currently tested
2021-03-09T17:22:22 < karlp> hrm, esp32 dma gives me 2 frrom each channel at a time.
2021-03-09T17:22:30 < karlp> one frrom each channelw ould be more convenient....
2021-03-09T17:37:45 < fenugrec> in reply to whoever was asking if cubeide + stlink-with-jlink-fw can do live variable watch : yes
2021-03-09T17:44:59 < Steffanx> Was me.. but my question was mainly if the cube can do it
2021-03-09T17:45:21 < Steffanx> Even on the fly, without pausing etc?
2021-03-09T17:49:51 -!- renn0xtk9 [~max@aftr-62-216-202-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T17:50:45 < fenugrec> yep
2021-03-09T17:52:02 < fenugrec> not sure of the refresh rate but showing two structs with maybe 30-40 byte worth of members, around 4-5 updates per second maybe more ?
2021-03-09T17:56:12 -!- hl [~hl@unaffiliated/hl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
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2021-03-09T18:36:27 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-03-09T19:06:05 -!- fluiDD is now known as fluiD
2021-03-09T19:06:09 < mawk> https://youtu.be/sVv1oc14X1w
2021-03-09T19:06:13 < mawk> I want this
2021-03-09T19:07:09 < t4nk_freenode> please don't hesitate to contact us. Your message will be responsed within 12 hours
2021-03-09T19:15:39 < Laurenceb> wew microshaft has redesigned sharepoint javashit
2021-03-09T19:15:56 < Laurenceb> so theres not two upload buttons one above the other any more
2021-03-09T19:17:26 < Laurenceb> >when u hit the wrong button and stick ur files in the root directory
2021-03-09T19:19:57 < Laurenceb> Ku Klux Kween
2021-03-09T19:41:26 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-254-117-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-03-09T20:04:47 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix mint is breaking again
2021-03-09T20:05:11 < Laurenceb> >hand symbol on the taskbar
2021-03-09T20:05:14 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
2021-03-09T20:06:40 < Laurenceb> what does the hand symbol even mean
2021-03-09T20:08:05 < effractur> >mint
2021-03-09T20:08:24 < Steffanx> > Laurenceb breaking lunix.
2021-03-09T20:08:41 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-09T20:08:51 < Laurenceb> I dunno what this weird icon is called
2021-03-09T20:09:03 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-03-09T20:09:08 < Laurenceb> or what its supposed to do, but my taskbar is non functional, thats for sure
2021-03-09T20:09:39 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-03-09T20:13:59 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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2021-03-09T20:49:39 < emeb> latest grapevine info on STM32 availability: ST has put all STM32 on "allocation" - top 100 OEM customers (including big distributors) are required to submit 1 year blanket POs for all the parts they want. Terms are NCNR - (non-cancel/non-return). 
2021-03-09T20:49:56 < emeb> Getting STM32 over the next year is gonna be interesting.
2021-03-09T20:50:37 < effractur> oh wow
2021-03-09T20:50:42 < effractur> but yea chip storage yay
2021-03-09T20:52:54 < englishman> who needs stm32 anyway
2021-03-09T20:53:00 < englishman> you haven't replaced them with esp32 yet?
2021-03-09T20:53:20 < emeb> I hear that's the new hotness
2021-03-09T20:53:22 < englishman> seriously tho that's nuts emeb. i heard microchop did the same thing
2021-03-09T20:53:37 < emeb> englishman: yes - also hearing that about MCHP
2021-03-09T20:53:50 < emeb> and 26 week delivery
2021-03-09T20:54:03 < englishman> fucked up.
2021-03-09T20:54:08 < englishman> these are all in-house fabs too right
2021-03-09T20:54:12 < effractur> no
2021-03-09T20:54:14 < englishman> ie xilinx is ok?
2021-03-09T20:54:34 < englishman> microchip is fabless?
2021-03-09T20:54:38 < jadew> hmm, looks like there's a shortage of the stuff I use too
2021-03-09T20:54:44 < jadew> better buy it all up
2021-03-09T20:54:53 < emeb> MCHP has a few fabs left - but they're all old stuff used for analog parts.
2021-03-09T20:55:00 < englishman> oh. who do they use?
2021-03-09T20:55:07 < effractur> ig uess st will just massivly increase there fab size but wants upfrom money for it
2021-03-09T20:55:16 < emeb> all the high-value digital stuff is either TSMC or GlobalFoundries
2021-03-09T20:55:38 < effractur> or samsung
2021-03-09T20:55:53 < emeb> and TSMC is growing like crazy - they're building a huge fab in N. Phoenix.
2021-03-09T20:55:54 < englishman> so xilinx will be fucked too?
2021-03-09T20:56:18 < effractur> englishman: no amd bought them
2021-03-09T20:56:31 < englishman> but is amd making them? i thought they were all tsmc
2021-03-09T20:56:40 < effractur> yes
2021-03-09T20:56:49 < effractur> but amds buying power is quit ehigh at tsmc
2021-03-09T20:56:58 < effractur> and xilinx stuff is afaik not on the top end node
2021-03-09T20:57:00 < englishman> aren't there amd shortages too
2021-03-09T20:57:09 < englishman> true - but neither is stm32
2021-03-09T20:57:14 < effractur> not that crazy
2021-03-09T20:57:25 < effractur> amd just got some huge orders tehy are allocating most resources to
2021-03-09T20:59:18 < englishman> for some reason i thought stm32 mcus were also in house. but now i guess they might just be making analolgue stuff in house
2021-03-09T20:59:45 < effractur> englishman: it seems that it is inhouse btw
2021-03-09T20:59:50 < effractur> or at least parts of it
2021-03-09T21:00:10 < effractur> but i guess stm just got hit by the trade war and stockpiling 
2021-03-09T21:00:17 < englishman> and a strike?
2021-03-09T21:00:25 < effractur> noclue
2021-03-09T21:01:16 < vegii> strike where?
2021-03-09T21:01:23 < Laurenceb> I read stm32 was fabbed in france?
2021-03-09T21:01:47 < Laurenceb> muh EU micro
2021-03-09T21:02:14 < Steffanx> the french strike all the time. whats new?
2021-03-09T21:02:19 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-09T21:03:47 < Laurenceb> hmm actually
2021-03-09T21:04:04 < Laurenceb> there was that issue with the ESD diodes, maybe that was them swapping fabs
2021-03-09T21:04:53 < vegii> let's hand-solder a tssop breadboard breakout
2021-03-09T21:05:01 < vegii> tssop20
2021-03-09T21:05:15 < vegii> err, I mean deadbug
2021-03-09T21:08:02 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T21:08:39 < Laurenceb> oh noes a tssop20, how will muh soldering skillz recover
2021-03-09T21:09:25 < vegii> wtf are you used to deadbugging, chip scale BGAs?
2021-03-09T21:09:35 < Laurenceb> yeah of course
2021-03-09T21:09:57 < Laurenceb> its all easy with practice
2021-03-09T21:10:17 < vegii> yeah I guess
2021-03-09T21:11:10 < Laurenceb> keeek Piers Morgan
2021-03-09T21:11:16 < Laurenceb> the state of bong land
2021-03-09T21:11:32 < vegii> I intensely dislike that guy
2021-03-09T21:12:21 < Laurenceb> hes an ass
2021-03-09T21:12:27 < Laurenceb> but Megan is worse
2021-03-09T21:13:03 < Laurenceb> the kekworthy bit is that her shitposting is causing everyone to go rage mode on each other now
2021-03-09T21:13:18 < Laurenceb> so basically she is the perfect troll
2021-03-09T21:17:24 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@S01061cabc0ab4603.vc.shawcable.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T21:17:54 < machinehum> Does anyone know a non-shit domain buying site? Godaddy is such trash I can't take it anymore
2021-03-09T21:19:47 < zyp> gandi.net
2021-03-09T21:20:14 < zyp> ref. https://www.gandi.net/en-US/no-bullshit
2021-03-09T21:21:43 < vegii> also ovh and namecheap
2021-03-09T21:34:44 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T21:37:41 < machinehum> ty
2021-03-09T22:23:20 < Steffanx> whats the trash with godaddy mr machinehum ?
2021-03-09T22:30:43 < machinehum> Interface changes every 3 months, always trying to tack on extra bullshit, pointless emails from all over the place, automatically enable auto renew
2021-03-09T22:30:51 < machinehum> And to top it off, stupid fucking name
2021-03-09T22:31:45 < qyx> :D
2021-03-09T22:37:03 -!- mouseghost [~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined ##stm32
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2021-03-09T22:47:02 < Steffanx> no ghandi is great.
2021-03-09T22:47:28 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-03-09T22:54:55 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T22:59:33 < englishman> >go to a local electronics distributor site
2021-03-09T22:59:43 < englishman> >gw instek power supplies are listed under lubricants
2021-03-09T23:01:02  * invzim contemplates 0402 vs 0603
2021-03-09T23:01:09 < Steffanx> jly/crt/stvn always told me KY is the best libricant
2021-03-09T23:01:34 < invzim> 0603 has served me very well for a long time, is it time to switch..
2021-03-09T23:02:27 < machinehum> to?
2021-03-09T23:02:46 < invzim> 0402
2021-03-09T23:02:52 < machinehum> hmm
2021-03-09T23:02:58 < zyp> I don't like hand assembling 0402, but then again I haven't hand assembled anything for years
2021-03-09T23:03:12 < machinehum> I acually recently handbombed my first 0402
2021-03-09T23:03:17 < zyp> I did 0402 on the board I just did with jlcpcb and it came out great
2021-03-09T23:04:08 < invzim> got a kid and a house, so small batch manual assembly is pretty much a no-go regardless
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2021-03-09T23:17:35 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-03-09T23:19:01 < mawk> invzim: just ask the kid to do it
2021-03-09T23:19:07 < mawk> obvious solution
2021-03-09T23:19:17 < mawk> send him to my licensed slave training facility if you want me to prime him
2021-03-09T23:19:36 < mawk> I've had great success training the chinese officials in uyghur handling
2021-03-09T23:22:17 < invzim> if she talked, it may have been a solution :)
2021-03-09T23:23:00 < mawk> can't talk, can't complain
2021-03-09T23:23:04 < mawk> it's even better
2021-03-09T23:23:32 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-09T23:23:38 < invzim> complaining transcends spoken language, I've learned
2021-03-09T23:24:15 < zyp> congrats with kid, how old?
2021-03-09T23:24:36 < invzim> 1y9m
2021-03-09T23:24:42 < invzim> thanks
2021-03-09T23:24:55 < zyp> ah, three months older than mine
2021-03-09T23:25:25 < mawk> ohno you all have kids
2021-03-09T23:25:40 < invzim> she's exposed to norwegian, english and igbo every day so while she 'talks', there is little sense to be made so far :)
2021-03-09T23:25:42  * mawk feels pressured
2021-03-09T23:26:14 < zyp> ah, multilingual kid, same here
2021-03-09T23:26:23 < karlp> what's igbo?
2021-03-09T23:26:24 < mawk> what is igbo
2021-03-09T23:26:34 < mawk> we're soulmates karlp 
2021-03-09T23:26:36 < mawk> or something
2021-03-09T23:26:40 < karlp> we're not.
2021-03-09T23:26:43 < mawk> :(
2021-03-09T23:26:45 < zyp> invzim's wife's language, I guess?
2021-03-09T23:26:56 < mawk> that it is a language is apparent enough
2021-03-09T23:27:23 < invzim> on of the nigerian languages
2021-03-09T23:27:37 < mawk> ah nice
2021-03-09T23:27:57 < mawk> that's a weird mix
2021-03-09T23:28:04 < mawk> she will get a good brain
2021-03-09T23:29:20 < zyp> we're not using much english at home anymore, so we're limiting it to two languages to begin with
2021-03-09T23:30:19 < invzim> good job on that, we met when we both lived in the philippines + english is the official language of nigeria, so it kind of stuck
2021-03-09T23:31:03 < mawk> if everything goes to plan and we are not lazy, the maybe-future-kid would be exposed to french, dutch, english, russian/ukrainian
2021-03-09T23:31:14 < mawk> I could say the same for myself, my parents spoke french, english, dutch, german
2021-03-09T23:31:19 < mawk> frysk also
2021-03-09T23:31:23 < mawk> but they were too lazy to teach anything but french
2021-03-09T23:31:39 < mawk> so I had to learn all these languages by myself (except frysk which is useless)
2021-03-09T23:32:32 < invzim> igbo is a tonal language + they all speak English, so I can't be assed except a few phrases
2021-03-09T23:34:05 < invzim> slightly on topic, I've seen a few reference schematics with 1 or 10ohm resistors to 'separate' supplies, is this just a lazy mans pi filter?
2021-03-09T23:36:44 < qyx> it's for those who fear coils and ferrites
2021-03-09T23:38:19 < mawk> separate how
2021-03-09T23:38:21 < mawk> like limit current?
2021-03-09T23:42:33 < invzim> datasheet, "Power supply for positive H-bridge, not connected to PVCCN or AVCC"
2021-03-09T23:42:48 < invzim> "solved" with a 10R resistor to AVCC
2021-03-09T23:42:52 < invzim> in eval schematic
2021-03-09T23:42:55 < mawk> ah
2021-03-09T23:43:00 < mawk> sounds like current limiting
2021-03-09T23:43:02 < mawk> but maybe for noise magic
2021-03-09T23:43:07 -!- elektrinis [~circuit@unaffiliated/circuit] has quit [Quit: pokðt]
2021-03-09T23:43:51 < invzim> could be, I suck at analog
2021-03-09T23:44:19 < mawk> the miss is out of town
2021-03-09T23:44:25 < mawk> so the mistress will come over
2021-03-09T23:44:32 < mawk> when the cat is away, the mawk is dancing
2021-03-09T23:46:07 < karlp> hrm, must avoid doing work work at night.
2021-03-09T23:47:36 < mawk> why?
2021-03-09T23:47:41 < mawk> night is the best time
2021-03-09T23:48:14 < karlp> no, it means I do nothign else ever and stress out on it.
2021-03-09T23:48:19 < karlp> daytime is for work work.
--- Day changed Wed Mar 10 2021
2021-03-10T00:11:47 < qyx> nighttime is for the hubbish?
2021-03-10T00:14:49 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@250.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2021-03-10T00:18:16 < karlp> considered it. god I'm shit
2021-03-10T00:18:34 < karlp> I'm currently trying to clean up mys ystem and deciding whether to upgrade it to current fedora or try and re-install clean
2021-03-10T00:19:56 < karlp> I suspect I should at least schedule that when I've got a laptop at home...
2021-03-10T00:22:10  * qyx debugging my lora
2021-03-10T00:22:14 < qyx> *his
2021-03-10T00:22:22 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/2z4Fx
2021-03-10T00:22:34 < qyx> it draws 10 mA when powered off
2021-03-10T00:22:57 < qyx> I suspect I am backfeeding it with the USART
2021-03-10T00:24:49 < karlp> yeah, uarts fuck up all sorts of dev boards keeping them powered
2021-03-10T00:25:55 < qyx> k, setting to analog before powering off solves it
2021-03-10T00:27:33 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-03-10T00:27:42 < karlp> think I might wait a week or so and just jump to a clear fed34 install
2021-03-10T00:28:51 -!- Laurenceb [~laurence@111.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-10T00:30:06 < Steffanx> More resistance in UART lines for the qyx
2021-03-10T00:33:35 < machinehum> gandi fucking rules
2021-03-10T00:34:16 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2021-03-10T00:59:49 < mawk> move to debian karlp 
2021-03-10T00:59:56 < mawk> machinehum: why?
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2021-03-10T01:21:13 < jadew> lmfao, tesla went up 20% in one day, for absolutely no reason
2021-03-10T01:21:31 < jadew> what a joke of a stock
2021-03-10T01:26:13 < bitmask> i think I went overboard again, ordered 400 brass heat set inserts
2021-03-10T01:28:33 < jadew> mouser: Your order has been delayed. These delays are due to extended warehouse processing times, caused by peak volume, and COVID prevention procedures.
2021-03-10T01:32:16 -!- Maya-sama [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:308f:9b01:98f4:4569:8e:f882] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-10T01:34:16 < bitmask> covid is a convenient excuse
2021-03-10T01:34:56 < jadew> I know
2021-03-10T01:35:26 -!- hackkitten [~hackkitte@2a02:6d40:308f:9b01:98f4:4569:8e:f882] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-10T01:35:44 < jadew> I don't need that stuff anyway, only placed the order because there was a low qty available on some ICs I needed and new stock was expected in ~June
2021-03-10T01:35:59 -!- Maya-sama is now known as Miyu
2021-03-10T01:37:59 < bitmask> hmm, im ordering screws since I dont have any M4 socket head screws, anything else I should order while I'm at it?
2021-03-10T01:38:16 < jadew> nuts
2021-03-10T01:38:38 < bitmask> i dont generally use nuts
2021-03-10T01:38:53 < bitmask> I think I have plenty m3 and m4
2021-03-10T01:40:07 < bitmask> actually i could probably use some m3x8
2021-03-10T01:40:22 < bitmask> I have a bag of unsorted screws thats probably full of them though
2021-03-10T01:43:22 < machinehum> mawk: Because it doesn't piss me off
2021-03-10T01:43:51 < machinehum> Easy to click around they don't try to sell me stuid add "website protection" or whatever else the hell godaddy was always trying to shill
2021-03-10T01:47:14 < Laurenceb> what the fuuuuuu
2021-03-10T01:47:37 < Laurenceb> >Megan got paid moar than entire hyperloop budget just by netflix
2021-03-10T01:47:45 < Laurenceb> $10^8 wtf
2021-03-10T01:52:59 -!- hl [~hl@unaffiliated/hl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-03-10T01:54:33 < Laurenceb> >Boris burrow 
2021-03-10T01:54:37 < Laurenceb> keking hard
2021-03-10T01:56:13 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-254-117-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-10T01:56:46 < Laurenceb> ^the tunnel from Britain to Ireland
2021-03-10T02:13:31 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
2021-03-10T02:21:25 < qyx> https://executablebooks.github.io/quantecon-mini-example/docs/getting_started.html
2021-03-10T02:21:29 < qyx> fuking anaconda
2021-03-10T02:26:45 < Laurenceb> infinite Megan
2021-03-10T02:26:56 < Laurenceb> the only thing the news will ever talk about in the future
2021-03-10T02:28:45 < Laurenceb> how should I generate +-2.5V split rails from USB?
2021-03-10T02:29:08 < Laurenceb> I have 230VAC -> Traco power convertor ->+-12V high power supply
2021-03-10T02:29:31 < Laurenceb> then USB->isolator->5V and floating GND out
2021-03-10T02:29:45 < Laurenceb> my plan was to use a 2.5V LDO to Traco power GND
2021-03-10T02:29:51 < Laurenceb> then you get +-2.5V
2021-03-10T02:29:54 < Laurenceb> sounds sane?
2021-03-10T02:30:20 < englishman> what kind of noise
2021-03-10T02:30:29 < englishman> is acceptable
2021-03-10T02:30:42 < englishman> and at what freqs
2021-03-10T02:31:01 < englishman> and what currents
2021-03-10T02:31:14 < Laurenceb> hmm good question
2021-03-10T02:31:21 < Laurenceb> this is for prototype hyperloop
2021-03-10T02:34:27 < Laurenceb> I actually want 3.3V for an stm32, so +-1.65V LDOs maybe
2021-03-10T02:34:42 < Laurenceb> what happens if I just have a +ive and -ive LDO...
2021-03-10T02:36:07 < Laurenceb> wait no
2021-03-10T02:36:13 < englishman> depends on current
2021-03-10T02:36:25 < Laurenceb> I can just have a 3.3v reg then resistor ladder to 0V of the Traco power thing
2021-03-10T02:36:38 < Laurenceb> so its floated to 1.65V
2021-03-10T02:36:51 < englishman> sounds more complicated than originally specified
2021-03-10T02:37:14 < englishman> maybe try writing down all the specs not just half of them
2021-03-10T02:37:32 < Laurenceb> heh yeah
2021-03-10T02:38:04 < Laurenceb> hmm it also has to tolerate ESD and shorted input lines
2021-03-10T02:38:33 < Laurenceb> that could inject tens of mA from the Traco power circuit, so resistor ladder wont cut it
2021-03-10T02:39:30 < Laurenceb> maybe this is a place for an opamp
2021-03-10T02:41:10 < Laurenceb> yeah, 5V -> 3.3V LDO then resistor ladder to 1.65V with opamp voltage follower, connected to Traco power ground
2021-03-10T02:41:52 < Laurenceb> I think just using LDOs could result it situations where stuff gets fried
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2021-03-10T02:50:31 < mawk> machinehum: that's because they're french
2021-03-10T02:50:35 < mawk> have you tried namecheap? it's quite nice
2021-03-10T02:51:06 < mawk> you can pay using bitcoin
2021-03-10T02:51:19 < mawk> the interface is functional, they offer all the tlds in the world
2021-03-10T02:51:40 < mawk> I use my own authority dns server with them as registrar
2021-03-10T02:51:44 < mawk> and dnssec works flawlessly
2021-03-10T02:53:04 < bitmask> hmm, should I get a small form factor psu with a 92mm fan or a regular atx with 140mm fan
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2021-03-10T05:29:14 < R2COM> sup
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2021-03-10T11:34:37 < Steffanx> Where is emeb?
2021-03-10T11:36:03 < effractur> his bouncher burned down?
2021-03-10T11:36:10 < effractur> re OVH DC burning down
2021-03-10T11:36:11 < Steffanx> He doesnt bounch
2021-03-10T11:36:41 < Steffanx> Haha yeah, in still waiting for actual fire pics, not the aftermath ones
2021-03-10T11:36:47 < Steffanx> Im*
2021-03-10T11:36:56 < effractur> Steffanx: https://twitter.com/xgarreau/status/1369559995491172354
2021-03-10T11:37:00 < effractur> the fire pics
2021-03-10T11:39:24 < skz81> as I said on another chan : 
2021-03-10T11:39:26 < skz81> <skz81> My VPS was in the cloud, now it's just a little smoke...
2021-03-10T11:39:27 < skz81> <skz81> https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/uptime/ceo-says-fire-has-destroyed-ovh-s-strasbourg-data-center-sbg2
2021-03-10T11:44:53 < jpa-> http://status.ovh.com/vms/index_sbg2.html   fake news, their monitor site shows everything is ok!
2021-03-10T11:49:22 < Steffanx> I was curious what his source was of his stm32 comment and top 100 oems
2021-03-10T11:49:31 < Steffanx> His = mr emeb
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2021-03-10T12:01:40 < karlp> seems a bit sucky for their status site to still show everything green...
2021-03-10T12:01:57 < karlp> mawk: no fucking way in the world I'm going to run debian on a desktop
2021-03-10T12:02:02 < karlp> I wouldn't even run debian on a server
2021-03-10T12:07:05 < Steffanx> Why the aggression karlp?
2021-03-10T12:07:53 -!- skz81 [~SKZ81@98.51.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-03-10T12:08:02 < karlp> too much ptsd from debian
2021-03-10T12:12:32 < Steffanx> Ohno
2021-03-10T12:12:38 < Steffanx> Sure it wasn't ubuntu?
2021-03-10T12:13:46 < karlp> no, ubuntu is sane and rational.
2021-03-10T12:13:54 < karlp> it's like debian without the violence.
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2021-03-10T12:22:47 < PaulFertser> karlp: haha, I have exactly the opposite impression, over the years helping people with their ubuntu installs felt like Ubuntu takes Debian, then PHBs order to "improve" this or that pointless function, some essential features get broken along the way. Rinse and repeat.
2021-03-10T12:28:40 -!- Laurenceb1 [2ed0cf6f@111.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-10T12:28:46 < Laurenceb1> argg lunix mint
2021-03-10T12:28:51 < Laurenceb1> what a piece of shit
2021-03-10T12:29:16 < Steffanx> Pebkac.
2021-03-10T12:29:27 < Laurenceb1> cinnamon crashes twice a day, I lose keyboard 5 times a day
2021-03-10T12:29:45 < Laurenceb1> today I have no graphics
2021-03-10T12:29:53 < Steffanx> Hw issues?
2021-03-10T12:29:59 < Laurenceb1> dunno
2021-03-10T12:30:10 < Laurenceb1> been trying to restart cinnamon for an hour
2021-03-10T12:30:54 < karlp> PaulFertser: I don't use ubunut desktop, I feel that's pretty trash "let's hack stuff up"
2021-03-10T12:31:09 < karlp> but ubuntu lts is far more rational than debian "stable" as far as actually getting things done.
2021-03-10T12:31:36 < karlp> and debian testing on a desktop?! insanity no thanks.
2021-03-10T12:32:34 < zyp> is it realy?
2021-03-10T12:32:36 < zyp> really*
2021-03-10T12:32:46 < srk> :))
2021-03-10T12:33:21 < PaulFertser> karlp: idk, it feels like Debian stable ships pretty reasonable software versions. I'm sure even OpenOCD 0.11.0 will get in within few months.
2021-03-10T12:33:31 < qyx> I have debian testing on the desktop
2021-03-10T12:33:36 < zyp> I went with debian stable on new work computer, I figured I don't want to deal with ubuntu breakages this time
2021-03-10T12:33:52 < qyx> even testing deosn't break
2021-03-10T12:34:11 < srk> try nixos, even unstable / master doesn't break
2021-03-10T12:34:51 < karlp> zyp: debian stable on a workstation I just felt I ended up having to compile everything, because nothing remotely recent was available for it, only "stable" old versions.
2021-03-10T12:35:23 < karlp> so you got "stable" old toolchains and desktop, and still had to build anything you actually wanted, so all the pain of gentoo, and none of the gain.
2021-03-10T12:35:53 < karlp> and then I was prety exhausted with the whole, "no, you may not listen to mp3s on your computer, fuck off you freedom hating capitalist swine"
2021-03-10T12:36:11 < qyx> wat
2021-03-10T12:36:38 < qyx> I haven't gentooed anything on debian for ages
2021-03-10T12:36:41 < PaulFertser> I have gcc-arm-none-eabi from testing installed on stable, pretty easy and non-conflicting.
2021-03-10T12:37:03 < qyx> even kicad is recent
2021-03-10T12:37:12 < zyp> last I checked gcc-arm-none-eabi on debian was a couple of years outdated regardless of suite
2021-03-10T12:37:23 < PaulFertser> gcc-arm-none-eabi/testing,now 15:8-2019-q3-1+b1 armhf [installed]
2021-03-10T12:37:56 < karlp> my debian ptsd is old ptsd, but I've got no incentive to go back, I'm generally very happy with fedora
2021-03-10T12:38:21 < karlp> I think my current home pc has been upgraded across a few too many releases though, and might explain a couple of weird niggles though,
2021-03-10T12:38:32 < karlp> like simplicity studio runs fine on fc32 at work, doesn'te ven start at home.+
2021-03-10T12:40:32 < zyp> hmm, I haven't tried fedora in probably 15 years or so
2021-03-10T12:41:16 < zyp> I were around for the rename from rhl to fc back when
2021-03-10T12:41:52 < zyp> and then I've been through gentoo, arch and ubuntu
2021-03-10T12:42:04 < Steffanx> Is opensuse still alive. I used it ages ago, but NO ONE ever mentions it nowadays.. 
2021-03-10T12:45:48 < Laurenceb1> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=145898
2021-03-10T12:45:51 < Laurenceb1> found muh bug
2021-03-10T12:46:15 < effractur> Steffanx: it has some nice applications
2021-03-10T12:46:22 < effractur> offical SAP support 
2021-03-10T12:49:06 -!- Laurenceb1 [2ed0cf6f@111.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-03-10T12:51:59 < Steffanx> Are you using some 10 years old version Laurenceb ?
2021-03-10T12:55:14 < karlp> effractur: if you ahve to use sap, you're already having a bad day though...
2021-03-10T13:00:49 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: no
2021-03-10T13:05:39 < Laurenceb> guess I can drag the broken dialogue box off into the corner of the screen
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2021-03-10T13:52:32 < jpa-> hmm, funny - HRTIM in STM32H7 is much less advanced than HRTIM in STM32F3
2021-03-10T13:53:02 < zyp> HRTIM in f3?
2021-03-10T13:53:09 < jpa-> F3 has 0.2ns resolution, H7 has only 2.5ns resolution 
2021-03-10T13:53:15 < jpa-> STM32F334
2021-03-10T13:55:16 < zyp> ah
2021-03-10T14:01:22 < karlp> f334 is the super hrtim one though, no other f3 has that right?
2021-03-10T14:01:39 < karlp> pretty sure f334 was the "on it's own, with all it's own periphs" 
2021-03-10T14:04:18 < jpa-> yeah
2021-03-10T14:06:18 < jpa-> looks like STM32G474 has 0.2ns HRTIM also
2021-03-10T14:16:11 < jpa-> meh, and H7 HRTIM can only do the 2.5ns if CPU is clocked at 400MHz; i was planning to run the core slower to save power
2021-03-10T14:19:53 < jpa-> i wonder if the delay-line high precision stuff just failed to work on H7 for some reason - because some of the docs still mention it, and the register is just specified that all the real high resolution modes are "reserved"
2021-03-10T14:21:10 < jpa-> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00000BqcEDSAZ/stm32h7-hrtimer-examples   apparently yeah
2021-03-10T14:25:28 < Laurenceb> how will the world recover from Piers Morgans racism?
2021-03-10T14:30:37 < jpa-> https://twitter.com/newhouseb/status/1369468611430088712   bluetooth softcore for FPGAs, just plug antenna to IO pin
2021-03-10T14:31:48 < Laurenceb> heh wew
2021-03-10T14:32:01 < Laurenceb> >>Bafta-winning activist Hassan Akkad, who is himself a refugee in the UK after fleeing Syria, requested a personalised message from Farage just to troll him
2021-03-10T14:32:07 < Laurenceb> >Akkad
2021-03-10T14:32:10 < Laurenceb> top kek
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2021-03-10T15:05:57 < qyx> jpa-: interesting, you need at least 10 gbps serdes to IQ demodulate 2.4 GHz, don't you?
2021-03-10T15:06:20 < qyx> thinking about it a little bit more, it is probably not that uncommon nowadays
2021-03-10T15:15:10 < jpa-> dunno, he seems to be doing it with 5 gbps
2021-03-10T15:17:04 -!- dongs_ is now known as dongs
2021-03-10T15:17:33 -!- dongs is now known as Guest71001
2021-03-10T15:18:28 < Guest71001> wow, my nickname was stolen by some shithead, thanks feenode.
2021-03-10T15:20:03 < jpa-> you had not registered it?
2021-03-10T15:36:39  * karlp is a little dissapointed someone got his name on gitlab first.
2021-03-10T15:36:48 < karlp> obviously I'm too old and behind the times now.
2021-03-10T15:38:26 < karlp> hrm, a bunch of eenews related urls are all "no domain" shit
2021-03-10T15:38:32 < karlp> I wonder if they were instrasbourg
2021-03-10T15:39:27 < Steffanx> jpa-: he cannot register it
2021-03-10T15:39:37 < Steffanx> I dont remember the history of that
2021-03-10T15:41:31 < Guest71001> OVH had some fire or someshit
2021-03-10T15:45:01 < karlp> yeah, that's why I said, "I wonder if they were in strasbourg"
2021-03-10T15:45:21 < srk> meltdown?
2021-03-10T15:45:23 < karlp> I wouldn't have ncessarily expected dns lookup failures though, just non-responsive, but I guess everything's "cloud speed" so low ttls...
2021-03-10T15:45:23 < Guest71001> fucking retards in #feenode, the whole lot
2021-03-10T15:45:41 < karlp> you didn't hve 2fa on your nickserv account?
2021-03-10T15:45:55 < Guest71001> it was reg'd before they even required email confirmation
2021-03-10T15:46:14 < Guest71001> stupid kikes probably expired it during one of their database purges
2021-03-10T15:46:24 < Guest71001> after they marked it as unusable due to "potential to abuse"
2021-03-10T15:46:31 < qyx> wat whois says theres dongs with timemob account
2021-03-10T15:46:34 < qyx> still registered
2021-03-10T15:46:35 < Guest71001> but now its perfectly OK for someone else to grab it and is fully "within their policies"
2021-03-10T15:46:38 < Guest71001> lmao
2021-03-10T15:46:47 < Guest71001> yeah, but some gnu/tard stole it and linked it to thiers
2021-03-10T15:46:52 < qyx> how so
2021-03-10T15:46:56 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on dongs (account gnubeest):
2021-03-10T15:46:56 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Mar 09 10:02:54 2021 (1d 3h 14m 57s ago)
2021-03-10T15:46:59 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- User reg.  : Apr 08 01:40:51 2014 (6y 48w 2d ago)
2021-03-10T15:47:01 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Last seen  : (about 0 weeks ago)
2021-03-10T15:47:04 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- User seen  : now
2021-03-10T15:47:07 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Flags      : HideMail, Private
2021-03-10T15:47:09 < Guest71001> 22:17 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- gnubeest has enabled nick protection
2021-03-10T15:47:12 < Guest71001> no idea
2021-03-10T15:47:14 < Guest71001> this 'gnueebest' thing
2021-03-10T15:47:21 < Guest71001> i wasn't even aware nickname linking was a thing
2021-03-10T15:47:24 < karlp> user reg 2014, but reg 2021?
2021-03-10T15:47:29 < Guest71001> i brought that up
2021-03-10T15:47:32 < karlp> that's their date?
2021-03-10T15:47:34 < karlp> not the nick date?
2021-03-10T15:47:37 < Guest71001> the 2014 is gnubest's reg date
2021-03-10T15:47:39 < effractur> you can add
2021-03-10T15:47:42 < Guest71001> dongs' one was like 2006 if not earlier
2021-03-10T15:47:43 < effractur> multplie nicks
2021-03-10T15:47:47 < effractur> to a account
2021-03-10T15:48:33 < qyx> I still don't see what Guest71001 does
2021-03-10T15:48:35 < qyx> idk
2021-03-10T15:48:52 < Guest71001> oh well whatever irc's dead anyway
2021-03-10T15:50:05 < mouseghost> long live irc
2021-03-10T15:50:08 < karlp> we've missed you 
2021-03-10T15:50:43 < mouseghost> m-me?
2021-03-10T15:55:38 < Mangy_Dog> irc is dead?
2021-03-10T15:55:50 < Mangy_Dog> we must be in the after life i guess
2021-03-10T15:55:59 < Mangy_Dog> I must be dead too D:
2021-03-10T16:14:45 < Steffanx> Deader than bsd?
2021-03-10T16:18:53 < fenugrec> but not quite so much as hurd 
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2021-03-10T16:24:29 < mouseghost> Mangy_Dog, i wish i was :v
2021-03-10T16:24:34 < mouseghost> but people prove that im not
2021-03-10T16:27:16 < karlp> any easy way of finding out whetehr something would have been at OVH-sgb2 or whatever it's number was?
2021-03-10T16:27:38 < karlp> is there some bgp brwoser thing I can use to track that shit?
2021-03-10T16:29:48 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-10T16:30:39 < karlp> ahh, find a better whois tool: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/aAW5z.png
2021-03-10T16:30:42 < karlp> gonna go with that's all offline...
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2021-03-10T16:37:43 < karlp> https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/1369621032131264514
2021-03-10T16:37:46 < karlp> fun times :)
2021-03-10T16:38:27 < fenugrec> how did fire suppression fail so bad
2021-03-10T16:39:31 < mouseghost> someone wanted to play firemen maybe?
2021-03-10T16:40:20 < mouseghost> >How much time is needed to access SBG3 again?
2021-03-10T16:40:21 < mouseghost> We're a web agency and I have a lots of customers that are phoning me to have any information!
2021-03-10T16:40:21 < mouseghost> I need to know what to answer them.
2021-03-10T16:41:17 < fenugrec> sobering reminder to always backup your shit, cloud or no
2021-03-10T16:42:19 < mouseghost> this is so lulz
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2021-03-10T17:32:14 < Steffanx> Heh I like how this guys name fucks up the twitter client a bit http://imgur.com/a/0CdZt9k
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2021-03-10T17:59:56 < Steffanx> Muhahaha, even Rust isn't safe: https://twitter.com/playrust/status/1369611688539009025?s=19
2021-03-10T18:01:19 < Laurenceb> data pagan, cyber vegan
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2021-03-10T18:03:38 < Laurenceb> boooohhooo hhhoooo waaaaaaaaaaa
2021-03-10T18:03:43 < Laurenceb> muh mental health
2021-03-10T18:03:52 < Laurenceb> *gets $100M*
2021-03-10T18:05:01 < karlp> feck, have an ssh key to this machine, but can't remember the password.
2021-03-10T18:05:08 < karlp> it's written down on a notebook at home.
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2021-03-10T18:21:01 < tomeaton17> Does anyone know how to leave an altium organisation
2021-03-10T18:21:42 < tomeaton17> I am stuck in an old organisation so I can't get a student licence
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2021-03-10T19:04:17 < Guest71001> you mean other than uninstalling it?
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2021-03-10T19:26:54 < fenugrec> rm HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/*
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2021-03-10T19:47:00 < zyp> tomeaton17, on altiumlive?
2021-03-10T19:47:32 < tomeaton17> zyp yes
2021-03-10T19:47:54 < zyp> do you have admin access?
2021-03-10T19:50:39 < tomeaton17> No that is the problem I think.
2021-03-10T19:51:01 < zyp> https://dashboard.live.altium.com/Contacts <- you get a user list here where you can choose to delete each of them
2021-03-10T19:51:41 < jpa-> Steffanx: haha, for a moment i thought it was rust the programming language :)
2021-03-10T19:51:47 < zyp> if that doesn't work, maybe you can change the associated email account to a dummy email, so the real one gets freed up for a new account
2021-03-10T19:53:41 < Steffanx> haha, excellent jpa-  :)
2021-03-10T19:53:53 < zyp> haha
2021-03-10T19:54:00 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2T5mtEjBcE
2021-03-10T19:54:05 < Laurenceb> top kek ^
2021-03-10T19:55:07 < jpa-> any good ideas for removing short-circuits from under QFN?
2021-03-10T19:55:30 < zyp> remove and retry
2021-03-10T19:55:34 < Laurenceb> jpa-: hot air and remove lol
2021-03-10T19:55:59 < fenugrec> with less solder this time 
2021-03-10T19:56:07 < jpa-> repeat until pads lift off and then go in corner and cry
2021-03-10T19:56:43 < zyp> exactly
2021-03-10T19:56:45 < zyp> been there, done that
2021-03-10T19:56:56 < jpa-> maybe i'll let it be for now, it is just an IRQ pin and maybe i won't need it for proto
2021-03-10T19:57:09 < fenugrec> are you sure it's the only short...\
2021-03-10T19:57:25 < zyp> if it's a common problem, your footprint probably sucks
2021-03-10T19:57:44 < jpa-> it's that annoying max77975 footprint i asked about a few weeks back
2021-03-10T19:57:53 < jpa-> next time i'll remove the pads i don't use :)
2021-03-10T19:58:12 < zyp> haha, awesome
2021-03-10T19:59:22 < jpa-> but the real problem is probably that i have problems handling stencils that are this large (200 x 100mm PCB)
2021-03-10T19:59:48 < jpa-> repasted three times until i got bored, even though the last paste was obviously bad also
2021-03-10T20:01:12 < zyp> true, I think stenciling is also my bottleneck for home assembly success
2021-03-10T20:02:01 < jpa-> i'll probably make a jig for next time, something like pins that go through PCB holes and stencil holes, and 1.6mm deep indent and maybe magnets also
2021-03-10T20:02:02 < Steffanx> junior is still not old enough to do this kind of work for you jpa- ?
2021-03-10T20:02:29 < zyp> wasn't there some maker product for that?
2021-03-10T20:02:31 < jpa-> Steffanx: nope, cannot even do pick'n'place yet
2021-03-10T20:02:40 < Steffanx> you should ask Guest53290 to finally release his printer thingy design
2021-03-10T20:02:54 < Steffanx> and share his wonderful device with the world
2021-03-10T20:03:18 < Steffanx> oh, wrong guest
2021-03-10T20:03:29 < jpa-> https://www.tindie.com/products/CYBRES/cybres-sp2421-stencil-printer/   i've been looking at this
2021-03-10T20:04:29 < zyp> that looks interesting enough
2021-03-10T20:04:45 < jpa-> positioning might still be annoying
2021-03-10T20:06:07 < zyp> I think I were thinking of this: https://www.tindie.com/products/sylphase/stencil8-pcb-solder-stencil-fixture-plate/
2021-03-10T20:07:58 < jpa-> yeah - but that puts constraints on the hole locations & size
2021-03-10T20:08:54 < jpa-> but that would be pretty much what i would make for a custom jig
2021-03-10T20:08:57 < zyp> anywhere on a 10mm grid?
2021-03-10T20:09:05 < zyp> shouldn't be too hard
2021-03-10T20:09:38 < jpa-> not if you put tooling holes specifically for that.. and yeah, i guess most PCBs would have enough space
2021-03-10T20:09:43 < zyp> I mean, I figure you'd mostly place them on breakaway edges anyway
2021-03-10T20:09:48 < jpa-> or add them on panel, but then i'd have to panelize myself
2021-03-10T20:10:06 < zyp> sounds like something that could be scripted reasonably easy
2021-03-10T20:10:48 < jpa-> true, though CNCing a few holes to a piece of MDF is not much work either
2021-03-10T20:11:01 < jpa-> and then i can also CNC the 1.6mm indent
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2021-03-10T21:03:26 < catphish> can i get the award for fastest wifi? https://www.speedtest.net/result/11068745506
2021-03-10T21:15:07 < Steffanx> are you a cheater?
2021-03-10T21:18:40 < catphish> i am not
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2021-03-10T21:52:01 < Steffanx> Was trashing the data of some unused vps/domain i had. This image from 2013 was on there, its still partially relevant: https://imgur.com/a/AGqAaw5 4 Laurenceb  
2021-03-10T21:57:43 < Laurenceb> lunix mint is hideously broken
2021-03-10T21:58:08 < Laurenceb> I cant even open a pdf
2021-03-10T22:00:11 < Laurenceb> worst lunix ever tbh
2021-03-10T22:04:37 < catphish_> i use linux mint, pdfs open fine for me :(
2021-03-10T22:05:26 < catphish_> they open wiht a thing called xreader, which it calls "Document Viewer"
2021-03-10T22:05:54 < catphish_> on the other hand, i use linux mint (mate) because i think cinnamon is broken and shit
2021-03-10T22:05:56 < Steffanx> yeah, i think Laurenceb  fucked up his installation
2021-03-10T22:06:42 < Laurenceb> yeah xreader just sits there in the terminal
2021-03-10T22:06:47 < Laurenceb> maybe there is a verbose mode
2021-03-10T22:08:03 < Laurenceb> 0 cpu use, its just dead
2021-03-10T22:08:08 < Laurenceb> same for evince
2021-03-10T22:12:31 < Laurenceb> hmf no verbose mode
2021-03-10T22:16:58 < Laurenceb> I'll try Okular
2021-03-10T22:22:22 < catphish_> well that sucks :(
2021-03-10T22:22:33 < catphish_> have you tried turning it off and on again?
2021-03-10T22:22:57 < Laurenceb> nah  open work underway
2021-03-10T22:23:29 < Laurenceb> looks like xwindows has broken
2021-03-10T22:23:41 < catphish_> save, reboot, wun
2021-03-10T22:23:48 < catphish_> *win
2021-03-10T22:28:46 < antto> aww, pdf viewers
2021-03-10T22:28:49 < antto> they suck
2021-03-10T22:29:01 < antto> loirens: try qpdfview
2021-03-10T22:29:11 < Laurenceb> heh okular also fails
2021-03-10T22:29:19 < Laurenceb> but everything works from another terminal
2021-03-10T22:29:20 < antto> forget those popular ones
2021-03-10T22:29:20 < Laurenceb> weird
2021-03-10T22:30:47 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/Xgg1yuI.png
2021-03-10T22:33:03 < Laurenceb> theres got to be some sort of verbose mode
2021-03-10T22:34:26 < antto> wut did u akchually do?
2021-03-10T22:34:48 < Steffanx> would almost say the fucked up some graphics shit
2021-03-10T22:35:06 < Laurenceb> antto: no idea
2021-03-10T22:35:12 < Steffanx> tried reinstalling lunix? :p
2021-03-10T22:35:15 < antto> is the pdf file on some mounted thing? over a network share or something
2021-03-10T22:35:27 < antto> coz some viewers are dumb
2021-03-10T22:40:45 < Laurenceb> nope its just local
2021-03-10T22:40:54 < Laurenceb> ok new terminals will let it boot
2021-03-10T22:41:00 < Laurenceb> dbind-WARNING **: 20:37:18.799: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken
2021-03-10T22:41:11 < Laurenceb> ^get that error on load tho
2021-03-10T22:42:23 < antto> dafuq(ue) is this?
2021-03-10T22:42:36 < antto> accessibility bus?
2021-03-10T22:43:17 < Laurenceb> dunno
2021-03-10T22:43:21 < Laurenceb> no wonder its broken
2021-03-10T22:43:31 < Laurenceb> overcomplex insanity
2021-03-10T22:43:46 < antto> just toss it and put a normal debian stable on it
2021-03-10T22:46:52 < Laurenceb> prob a good plan
2021-03-10T22:47:01 < Laurenceb> say too many bugs in mint
2021-03-10T22:47:06 < Laurenceb> never had this with ubuntu
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2021-03-10T23:51:12 < ventyl> this smells like something systemd-esque
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2021-03-10T23:51:32 < ventyl> i've seen dbus failing a lot like this
2021-03-10T23:57:10 < karlp> why were you using mint anyway? isn't it's selling point, "we didn't like gnome3, and we wanted to keep living with old gnome2" ?
--- Day changed Thu Mar 11 2021
2021-03-11T00:05:10 < ventyl> tricky question: if Cortex-M4 pads exception frame upon entering exception in order for it to be 8-byte aligned. how does it know, that padding happened?
2021-03-11T00:09:44 < karlp> how could it matter?
2021-03-11T00:10:11 < karlp> but read the TRM for the specifics of hwo it works.
2021-03-11T00:13:37 < ventyl> it matters if you want to examine thread stack from within exception handler and you need to know if exception frame is padded or not (= it's length)
2021-03-11T00:14:26 < ventyl> STM's Cortex M4 manual is particularly silent about this aspect. it only says that exception frame may get padded if STKALIGN bit is set to 1
2021-03-11T00:15:11 < ventyl> STKALIGN calls for exception frame have 8-byte alignment
2021-03-11T00:17:49 < ventyl> ah ok, it is described along the documentation of STKALIGN bit
2021-03-11T00:17:58 < karlp> correct.
2021-03-11T00:18:03 < karlp> and stkalign is always 1....
2021-03-11T00:18:09 < karlp> (they kinda gloss over that..)
2021-03-11T00:18:19 < ventyl> unless someone kind enough sets it to 0
2021-03-11T00:18:44 < karlp> who would do such a thing....
2021-03-11T00:19:00 < karlp> I'm pretty sure it's actually errata to even try...
2021-03-11T00:19:10 < karlp> heaps of shit explodes badly with it at 0
2021-03-11T00:19:17 < karlp> and iirc recent silicon forces it,
2021-03-11T00:19:27 < ventyl> that doesn't matter. what actually matters is that I need to know if stack was padded or not
2021-03-11T00:19:29 < karlp> it's only required to explicitly set iton like m3r0 or something
2021-03-11T00:19:32 < ventyl> which is a runtime case
2021-03-11T00:19:51 < karlp> well, you've got the right docs in frront of you now...
2021-03-11T00:19:58 < ventyl> yeah
2021-03-11T00:20:36 < karlp> I was under the impression you didn't need to decode anything, it was just "right" because it pushed things to the right place....
2021-03-11T00:20:42 < karlp> but I may be mis re-membering.
2021-03-11T00:21:50 < ventyl> that's right unless you do creepy shit
2021-03-11T00:21:55 < ventyl> which I am doing
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2021-03-11T00:49:44 < Steffanx> Don't be such creep ventyl ;)
2021-03-11T00:50:10 < ventyl> someone has to be
2021-03-11T00:59:22 < Laurenceb> united kingdom moar like KKK-Kingdom amirite
2021-03-11T01:01:19 < Laurenceb> david duke moar like duke of Edinburgh 
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2021-03-11T01:54:30 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
2021-03-11T01:54:49 < Laurenceb> >Australia prob dropping Queen as head of state due to Megan shit
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2021-03-11T02:28:37 < vegii> https://i.imgur.com/ZMFdId1.jpg
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2021-03-11T02:55:48 < aandrew> vegii: not bad. what is it?
2021-03-11T02:56:38 < vegii> a breakout board
2021-03-11T02:57:45 < vegii> tssop20 stm8l051f3p6
2021-03-11T03:00:00 < aandrew> ah ok, STM8
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2021-03-11T03:45:05 < aandrew> ok
2021-03-11T03:45:07 < aandrew> C++ question
2021-03-11T03:45:09 < aandrew> I fucking hate C++
2021-03-11T03:45:16 < aandrew> I'm in a class
2021-03-11T03:45:51 < aandrew> namespace fuck { class shit { private: struct sockaddr_in cunt; 
2021-03-11T03:46:48 < aandrew> oh wait, I think I got it
2021-03-11T03:47:02 < aandrew> it was saying it couldn't find sockaddr_in in the namespace
2021-03-11T03:47:09 < aandrew> I did have sys/types and sys/socket included
2021-03-11T03:47:31 < aandrew> no
2021-03-11T03:47:33 < aandrew> it's still fucked
2021-03-11T03:47:40 < aandrew> error: field ‘cunt’ has incomplete type ‘simpleudp::sockaddr_in'
2021-03-11T03:48:02 < aandrew> it's not fucking shit::sockaddr_in, it's just fucking sockaddr_in
2021-03-11T03:48:19 < aandrew> how do I tell it that it's a regular everyday fucking struct
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2021-03-11T09:06:38 < jadew> aandrew, you don't have the definition
2021-03-11T09:14:55 < jadew> is google broken or am I too tired? https://imgur.com/a/a7XOfcC
2021-03-11T09:19:08 < effractur> its a easter egg
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2021-03-11T10:08:07 < Steffanx> Lol jadew you're too tired
2021-03-11T10:10:26 < jadew> what was the mistake?
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2021-03-11T10:36:59 < jpa-> hmm.. when debugging STM32 that has cache, does the debugger see the view of the RAM through the cache, or only the stuff that has been flushed to real RAM?
2021-03-11T10:38:56 < PaulFertser> I think you can look via AHB or via APB, and it depends on target features and debugger. OpenOCD has a separate mem-ap target.
2021-03-11T10:39:47 < jpa-> apparently my openocd currently sees only stuff flushed to real RAM
2021-03-11T10:39:55 < jpa-> is there a way to set it to view through cache?
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2021-03-11T11:51:35 < PaulFertser> jpa-: sorry, I do not really know the answer, probably bornea knows
2021-03-11T12:13:56 < jpa-> PaulFertser: looks like this would do it: https://github.com/ntfreak/openocd/blob/master/tcl/target/stm32h7x.cfg#L147
2021-03-11T12:14:08 < jpa-> but i guess because i'm using stlink, using_hla is true
2021-03-11T12:15:29 < PaulFertser> jpa-: if your stlink is new enough firmware version you can try stlink-dap.cfg
2021-03-11T12:15:30 < jpa-> maybe i'll need to update stlink firmware
2021-03-11T12:16:05 < jpa-> my stlink is a decade old :)
2021-03-11T12:22:48 < jpa-> heh, yeah, stlink upgrade fixed it
2021-03-11T12:23:43 < PaulFertser> jpa-: with same everything or stlink-dap?
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2021-03-11T12:27:42 < jpa-> with same everything
2021-03-11T12:27:53 < jpa-> apparently newer stlink firmware sets that setting internally
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2021-03-11T13:08:28 < mawk> aandrew: you tell it's a regular struct because it's kernel stuff
2021-03-11T13:08:31 < mawk> it's not libstdc++ stuff
2021-03-11T13:08:47 < mawk> if you find it in linux manual and not cppreference, it's kernel stuff
2021-03-11T13:08:54 < mawk> you can also just look at where you imported it from
2021-03-11T13:09:03 < mawk> you importer it from <netinet/in.h> or whatever
2021-03-11T13:09:12 < mawk> it's a .h, it's C
2021-03-11T13:09:19 < mawk> you can also read the .h and you will see extern "C" { stuff in it
2021-03-11T13:09:31 < ventyl> it is, but he didn't disclose the code
2021-03-11T13:09:44 < jpa-> aandrew: maybe omit 'struct' because in C++ that's not needed, and then you'll get a real error if it is not declared
2021-03-11T13:10:02 < ventyl> I'd expect to be some kind of PEBKAC, such as forward declaring it inside namespace, or something
2021-03-11T13:10:05 < mawk> why omit struct
2021-03-11T13:10:08 < mawk> if it's coming from C
2021-03-11T13:10:12 < mawk> use it like you would in C
2021-03-11T13:10:19 < mawk> then you can reuse/copy paste your usual C code
2021-03-11T13:10:24 < mawk> and makes debugging easier
2021-03-11T13:11:21 < ventyl> debugger pretty much doesn't care about it
2021-03-11T13:12:14 < ventyl> omitting `struct` keyword from type which wasn't typedefed is mostly just a (lack of) syntactic sugar
2021-03-11T13:12:17 < mawk> not using debugger
2021-03-11T13:12:20 < mawk> just debugging
2021-03-11T13:12:24 < mawk> eyeball-debugging
2021-03-11T13:13:44 < jpa-> mawk: because the unnecessary 'struct' makes it default to forward declaration if the correct header is not included, but because the forward declaration is inside a class it will not work
2021-03-11T13:13:59 < jpa-> but without "struct" it will give error that it is undeclared
2021-03-11T13:14:27 < mawk> forward declarations like that only work with pointers right?
2021-03-11T13:14:30 < mawk> in any case
2021-03-11T13:15:00 < jpa-> true, i think; that's what the "incomplete type" is about
2021-03-11T13:26:21 < ventyl> pointers and references mostly
2021-03-11T13:26:37 < ventyl> or more generally, any use where compiler doesn't need to know storage size and internal composition
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2021-03-11T14:33:10 < karlp> bah, broken links on manufacturer getting started shit: https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-Kits/nRF52833-DK/GetStarted#infotabs
2021-03-11T14:33:12 < karlp> I loves it
2021-03-11T14:35:40 < englishman> fucking gdpr popups
2021-03-11T14:35:48 < englishman> internet 69.0 fucking sucks dick
2021-03-11T14:49:16 < Steffanx> Lol karlp. Nordic is an expert when it comes to dead links. 
2021-03-11T14:49:34 < Steffanx> Their forum does a great job as well
2021-03-11T14:50:39 < Steffanx> Have issue X, find the same problem on forum, have link to solution -> dead link.
2021-03-11T14:53:22 < effractur> archive.ogr
2021-03-11T14:53:27 < ventyl> better than Atmel/Microchip re-numbered application notes?
2021-03-11T14:55:49 < Steffanx> Like it archived everything effractur ...
2021-03-11T14:56:02 < effractur> Steffanx: well its worth a try
2021-03-11T14:57:10 < ventyl> archive.org is pretty surprising with its archiving abilities
2021-03-11T14:57:15 < ventyl> and it gets better over time
2021-03-11T14:57:50 < ventyl> so it may be worth of trying even if you wasn't able to find something similar in the past
2021-03-11T14:57:56 < karlp> Steffanx: do I have to use segger embedded studio?
2021-03-11T14:58:00 < karlp> this is so far a soup
2021-03-11T14:59:25 < jpa-> digikey has broken all links for finnish customers; google results lead to digikey.com, which redirects to digikey.fi but gets the url wrong
2021-03-11T14:59:38 < jpa-> i reported it but they just said "we'll consider it in future upgrades" whatever that means
2021-03-11T15:00:02 < ventyl> "go fuck yourself and have a nice day" I guess
2021-03-11T15:00:13 < Steffanx> I recall there are makefile examples, karlp 
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2021-03-11T15:00:58 < Steffanx> But imho there eco system is shitty as well. 
2021-03-11T15:01:33 < karlp> am I going to end up just using stm32wb?
2021-03-11T15:01:34 < Steffanx> Old HAL, new HAL, mixed HAL. "What HAL to use"-HAL
2021-03-11T15:01:43 < Steffanx> In the end it works, but.. meh
2021-03-11T15:01:56 < karlp> silabs is nice on paper, but simplicity stuiod only works on one of my computers.
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2021-03-11T15:03:06 < jpa-> hmm, looks like they've actually now fixed it, just had to empty cookies
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2021-03-11T15:15:19 < Steffanx> Heh, simplicity studio. Wanted to try something with an older efm8, it uses Keil, but the virus scanner blocked it due to suspicious behaviour and that crashed Simplicity Studio without notice. The joy.
2021-03-11T15:15:45 < Steffanx> Imho SS is the worst kind of eclipse based IDE, so much custom crap
2021-03-11T15:16:26 < karlp> ok, built a demo app fromnordic and flashed it via oocd, that was easy enough...
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2021-03-11T15:17:36 < Steffanx> Makefile based?
2021-03-11T15:18:12 < karlp> yeah
2021-03-11T15:18:29 < karlp> turns out thisnrf52833 board isn't as well supported by demos as they claim
2021-03-11T15:18:39 < karlp> it doesn't even get a column in the readme of "which boards does this run on"
2021-03-11T15:18:45 < Steffanx> Now I tell you to make it use 2 UARTs and input capture of a PWM-ish signal. It all looks easy, until you have a look at the HAL.
2021-03-11T15:19:06 < karlp> yeah, well, it all seems to suck
2021-03-11T15:19:16 < karlp> I was patching esp32 idf to make multi channel adc work,
2021-03-11T15:19:31 < karlp> so put that aside, stage is "eval all of this for sw love, as well as basic functionality"
2021-03-11T15:23:25 < ventyl> hah, this creeepy shit runs \o/
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2021-03-11T16:01:55 < Zobeobze> Hi there!
2021-03-11T16:02:14 < Zobeobze> I have a dumb question: is it possible to do some form of bank switching on memory-mapped QSPI?
2021-03-11T16:02:42 < Zobeobze> I'd like to have two redundant copies of my firmware on external flash memory
2021-03-11T16:03:25 < ventyl> well, I guess that gating /CS would do the job
2021-03-11T16:03:29 < Zobeobze> One option would be to have fully position-independant code, but that's annoying. The other option would be to be able to "remap" either halves of my QSPI memory to the same address. Is that second option possible on a Cortex-M7
2021-03-11T16:03:30 < ventyl> either SW or HW
2021-03-11T16:04:23 < Zobeobze> Ok, I worded my question poorly. My hardware setup is simple : an STM32F7 running code from a single external qspi flash chip
2021-03-11T16:05:22 < Zobeobze> This I don't want to change. But said external flash chip is more than twice bigger than the firmware size. So to make field update reliable, I'd like to have a "A/B" update strategy. When running firmware from slot A we put the update in slot B, and the other way around. Super common stuff I assume.
2021-03-11T16:09:29 < zyp> that doesn't appear to be possible
2021-03-11T16:11:35 < zyp> if you get a chip with an internal dual bank flash, you can do that with the internal flash
2021-03-11T16:30:05 < jpa-> or you can just have "run" area and "backup" area, and copy it over
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2021-03-11T16:37:49 < karlp> Steffanx: you're using just the nrf sdk right? not zephyr native or anything?
2021-03-11T16:38:11 < Steffanx> Yeah nrf sdk
2021-03-11T16:38:45 < Steffanx> I must say I got this project handed over, so perhaps the guy fucked some config stuff up. But my general opinion is: meh
2021-03-11T16:38:53 < Steffanx> It works, but meh
2021-03-11T16:39:00 < karlp> I wonder if zephyr native is anybetter.
2021-03-11T16:39:21 < karlp> I didn't like zephyr when I had to do something for extra stuff, but nrodic is a pretty high level partner there.
2021-03-11T16:39:43 < Steffanx> Didn't even consider zephyr
2021-03-11T16:42:52 < karlp> yeah, but you're not starting clean.
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2021-03-11T16:58:05 < Steffanx> But yeah, the huge arse sdk_condig.h is FUN
2021-03-11T17:05:15 < karlp> well, even ust porting a makefile and linker script now to another of their own boards is very non-obvious
2021-03-11T17:27:08 < karlp> whee, this configuration jar is cutesey
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2021-03-11T18:24:48 < mawk> there are two nrf sdk karlp 
2021-03-11T18:24:55 < mawk> one with zephyr, nrf connect
2021-03-11T18:24:59 < mawk> the other without, nrf sdk
2021-03-11T18:25:03 < mawk> I use the second one
2021-03-11T18:25:09 < mawk> I don't trust this zephyr business
2021-03-11T18:25:32 < mawk> I started clean
2021-03-11T18:25:50 < mawk> makefile and linker script is non obvious but working fine in the end
2021-03-11T18:25:56 < mawk> just have to understand a bit the logic
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2021-03-11T18:26:25 < mawk> the most annoying part is when you add new libs to build
2021-03-11T18:26:39 < mawk> you have to figure out yourself what to add to sdk_config.h and to the makefile
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2021-03-11T19:01:08 < Laurenceb> 52 ways gammons triggered my mental health like a bunch of cockwombles
2021-03-11T19:05:23 < Steffanx> Yeah, its awful mawk
2021-03-11T19:06:10 < Steffanx> Enable 2 uarts on nrf52840 > change 4 config options
2021-03-11T19:06:16 < Steffanx> Or maybe even more
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2021-03-11T19:17:38 < Laurenceb> 8 times britain was a bigoted cockwomble country
2021-03-11T19:17:57 < Laurenceb> who the fuck is Sarah Everard
2021-03-11T19:18:37 < Laurenceb> obviously the daughter of someone important
2021-03-11T19:18:59 < Laurenceb> probably about ten random homeless womenz killed since her
2021-03-11T19:20:45 < Laurenceb> also if a Black womanz got killed it wouldnt be all over uk news lmao
2021-03-11T19:20:56 < Laurenceb> wtf I believe in critical race theory now
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2021-03-11T20:35:17 < ventyl> is there any obvious reason why gdb with openocd and stlink would give zero fucks about whatever condition on watchpoint I set?
2021-03-11T20:49:40 < Steffanx> it doesnt like creeps
2021-03-11T20:50:26 < ventyl> c'mon, it doesn't know
2021-03-11T20:51:42 < zyp> what are you trying to set a watchpoint on
2021-03-11T20:52:00 < ventyl> global 8bit variable
2021-03-11T20:52:21 < ventyl> it hits whenever it's value is changed, condition is ignored
2021-03-11T20:52:32 < zyp> ah, conditional
2021-03-11T20:52:55 < zyp> I guess that should be completely on the gdb side
2021-03-11T20:53:10 < ventyl> #metoo
2021-03-11T20:53:56 < ventyl> it correctly shows that given watchpoint has condition, but simply ignores it and always stops
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2021-03-11T21:08:36 < Laurenceb> we have to tell men to not rape or commit crimes
2021-03-11T21:09:02 < Laurenceb> we have to stop the patriarchy giving rape lessons to schoolboys
2021-03-11T21:13:50 < zyp> how many rape lessons did you have to take to get your rape license?
2021-03-11T21:14:08 < ventyl> OK i think that GDB actually isn't aware of what caused the program to break
2021-03-11T21:14:18 < ventyl> info watch doesn't show watchpoint hit count
2021-03-11T21:24:35 < Laurenceb> raep loicense
2021-03-11T21:31:18 < Steffanx> Laurenceb: doesn't even have his drivers loicense
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2021-03-11T21:34:17 < Steffanx> emeb_mac: what was you source of this stm32 top 100 thingy you mentioned?
2021-03-11T21:34:22 < Steffanx> Your*
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2021-03-11T21:54:01 < fenugrec> oh wow selling on ebgay, you don't even get the buyer's email address anymore, and they do everything to make you go through their dumbass "shippo" thing and create an account there etc
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2021-03-11T23:15:05 < t4nk_freenode> the original bluepills I got are of excellent quality, quite the difference with the fakes
2021-03-11T23:15:27 < t4nk_freenode> also got my black pills now, equally nice
2021-03-11T23:16:10 < t4nk_freenode> well, the f411 black pillss
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 12 2021
2021-03-12T00:27:35 < qyx> let's have a brian exercise
2021-03-12T00:27:58 < qyx> I have a 1V8-level UART consisting of RX, TX, GND
2021-03-12T00:28:38 < qyx> how to connect it to an USB bridge with isolation without using isolated power supply?
2021-03-12T00:29:54 < qyx> I was considering feeding a cap from RX and TX with two diodes 
2021-03-12T00:30:00 < qyx> to power a digital isolator
2021-03-12T00:41:51 < zyp> feeding from rx?
2021-03-12T00:45:32 < qyx> rx has pullup
2021-03-12T00:45:36 < qyx> but yeah, tx is enough
2021-03-12T00:54:10 < zyp> hmm
2021-03-12T00:54:20 < zyp> you don't get an optoisolator that works at 1.8V, do you?
2021-03-12T00:55:27 < qyx> hm, IR diodes has probably exactly 1.8V Vf
2021-03-12T00:55:49 < qyx> but there should be some ADUMs working at that voltages
2021-03-12T00:57:31 < zyp> https://www.vishay.com/docs/83725/4n25.pdf <- typical Vf of 1.3V
2021-03-12T00:57:44 < zyp> didn't look at speed though
2021-03-12T01:05:39 < qyx> huh CTR 10-20%
2021-03-12T01:05:57 < qyx> typ. ~40 %
2021-03-12T01:06:27 < qyx> it should work though
2021-03-12T01:07:02 < qyx> 2 us rise/fall times, should be enough for 115200
2021-03-12T01:08:11 < qyx> but the thing is I still need a cap and invert the signal
2021-03-12T01:08:20 < qyx> to lit the optocoupler on TX = GND
2021-03-12T01:08:33 < qyx> and let the cap charge with TX at H
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2021-03-12T01:19:15 < qyx> something like https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tm0Kf/Screenshot_2021-03-12_00-18-50.png
2021-03-12T01:20:14 < zyp> why not just invert it on the usb bridge?
2021-03-12T01:20:34 < qyx> to save If at idle
2021-03-12T01:21:02 < qyx> as the dev is battery powered
2021-03-12T01:21:54 < qyx> actually this is a calibration console cable and I am trying to avoid coupling noise as much as possible
2021-03-12T01:22:09 < qyx> whtn the battery powered thing is connected to a PC during calibration
2021-03-12T01:24:49 < Laurenceb> BIGOTED AND RACIST
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2021-03-12T01:42:28 < t4nk_freenode> I got these tips in the mail.. Screwdriver, 1.6mm and 3.2mm | Single Flat, 2.4mm and 4.8mm | Long Conical, 0.4mm and 0.8mm - which of these tips would you use to solder the headers to the blackandblue pills?
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2021-03-12T02:29:13 < karlp> what's the difference between screwdriver and single flat?
2021-03-12T02:29:17 < karlp> (but one of them)
2021-03-12T02:32:32 < t4nk_freenode> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hbb512c4252e24e648b64bf76749c9dfcl.jpeg I think the two on the left
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2021-03-12T02:34:31 < LoneElf> Hey folks. Does anybody know how to configure SPI to use a chip select pin in DMA mode?
2021-03-12T02:34:32 < t4nk_freenode> so the hakko equivalent is 'C'
2021-03-12T02:35:01 < LoneElf> I see that there's a NSS setting for slave select, but I don't know how to configure it to toggle a specific pin?
2021-03-12T02:39:51 < LoneElf> Oh, I see that NSS is an actual pin funciton.
2021-03-12T02:39:54 < LoneElf> never mind :)
2021-03-12T02:41:33 < t4nk_freenode> well done, LoneElf ;)
2021-03-12T02:44:26 < qyx> mawk is a pro in using hardware NSS in master mode
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2021-03-12T03:43:47 < machinehum> Has anyone been able to get this to work? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/tree/master/examples/stm32/f1/lisa-m-1/usb_cdcacm I thought it was my hardware then I tried on a blue pill w/ the same error: https://pastebin.com/E1eSHeMi
2021-03-12T03:43:56 < machinehum> And yeah, I tried a different cable
2021-03-12T03:57:18 < englishman> looks like laurent is writing clickbait articles now https://i.ibb.co/c1h8Qs3/nnshrisw2gm61.jpg
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2021-03-12T07:23:13 < machinehum> englishman: suh
2021-03-12T07:23:43 < jpa-> machinehum: try enabling some traces:    echo 'file cdc_acm.c +p' | sudo tee /sys/kernel/debug/dynamic_debug/control      echo -n 'file *usb* +p' > /sys/kernel/debug/dynamic_debug/control
2021-03-12T07:24:22 < jpa-> the second one with sudo also, forgot to edit
2021-03-12T07:25:02 < machinehum> jpa-: Yes I will try
2021-03-12T07:25:05 < machinehum> Thanks
2021-03-12T07:25:42 < machinehum> I'm a little drunk as shit right now so I might have to do that one tommorrow
2021-03-12T07:26:30 < jpa-> that seems to run on HSI so i don't think it will work on bluepill because it doesn't have clock recovery systeem, you'll have to change "rcc_clock_setup_in_hsi_out_48mhz" to hse
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2021-03-12T08:51:06 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: for soldering THT 2.54 mm pins any non-damaged tip should work the same if you are just heating up the pad and the pin with the tip and feed the solder from a wire with another hand.
2021-03-12T08:55:19 < R2COM> this model encryption of IC manufacturers for spice is so fucking annoying
2021-03-12T08:55:26 < R2COM> especially when using on different sims
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2021-03-12T08:59:56 < jadew> are taiwanese cloners?
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2021-03-12T10:38:08 < invzim> anyone done usb type a male PCB connectors?  How do you achieve mechanical stability during reflow?
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2021-03-12T10:57:28 < karlp> let the slaves do it by hand afterwards?
2021-03-12T10:58:21 < karlp> t4nk_freenode: the two sloped cut would probably be my go-to dailys, but... I'm not really a great solder person
2021-03-12T10:58:30 < karlp> (of the tips you shared)
2021-03-12T10:59:37 < karlp> hrm, I thought i'd gotten rid of the hsi examples I found recently.
2021-03-12T11:00:31 < karlp> oh, also, you copied a bad example
2021-03-12T11:00:36 < karlp> lisa-m-1 is an f105,
2021-03-12T11:00:40 < karlp> which has a different usb core...
2021-03-12T11:00:45 < karlp> so that was never going to work.
2021-03-12T11:01:17 < karlp> try ~/src/libopencm3-examples/examples/stm32/f1/stm32-h103/usb_cdcacm/cdcacm.c instead.
2021-03-12T11:01:34 < karlp> it's for an f103, and it has hse for 8Mhz already
2021-03-12T11:11:18 < Steffanx> You're talking about USB using HSI?
2021-03-12T11:12:49 < karlp> yeah, there's a few shitty examples that were contributed early that setup the clocks using hsi.
2021-03-12T11:12:58 < karlp> ~works often, but not always
2021-03-12T11:13:08 < karlp> and on some of those boards, they even _have_ hse, so it was just shitty old examples
2021-03-12T11:13:11 < karlp> hate that repo
2021-03-12T11:19:11 < karlp> heh, just got blocked on twitter.
2021-03-12T11:19:14  * karlp blames firefox
2021-03-12T11:22:52 < ventyl> I see recruiters as 21st century Jehovah Witnesses
2021-03-12T11:23:27 < ventyl> "What number is the best to have a short call with you?" sounds damn close to "Would you have some time to have a talk?" 
2021-03-12T11:24:07 < ventyl> the major difference is that their handout is not Book of Jehovah, instead they have a bunch of jobspecs
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2021-03-12T12:07:52 < Steffanx> ventyl: http://imgur.com/a/jKEy6AG ;)
2021-03-12T12:12:26 < ventyl> yeah
2021-03-12T12:12:40 < ventyl> attractive jehovah witnesses
2021-03-12T12:16:34 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurence@111.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-12T13:17:23 < Laurenceb> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/green-party-peer-6pm-curfew-men-disappearance-of-sarah-everard-b923587.html
2021-03-12T13:17:31 < Laurenceb> now entering the meme world
2021-03-12T13:17:49 < Laurenceb> >when u cant out troll them
2021-03-12T13:18:52 < Laurenceb> >when u sexually identify as a banana to avoid the curfew
2021-03-12T13:23:40 < ventyl> UK never stops surprising me
2021-03-12T13:25:47 < invzim> https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/480370001_sd.pdf
2021-03-12T13:26:09 < invzim> this one actually looks ok for selective soldering
2021-03-12T13:31:14 < zyp> «actually»?
2021-03-12T13:31:58 < invzim> got some doubts about manufacturing / mech stability of these thingies
2021-03-12T13:32:32 < zyp> what are you making?
2021-03-12T13:33:32 < invzim> a hack, old on
2021-03-12T13:34:56 < invzim> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MgiBeIZPUxgz4RpJZ_5h6XOBx5N_4A96/view?usp=sharing
2021-03-12T13:34:59 < zyp> a hack that you're gonna mass produce?
2021-03-12T13:35:09 < zyp> wat
2021-03-12T13:35:29 < invzim> heard of the mister project for de10-nano?
2021-03-12T13:35:35 < zyp> ah, yeah
2021-03-12T13:36:00 < invzim> I'm working on a jamma expander thingie, like at least 2-3 other people
2021-03-12T13:36:17 < invzim> de10-nano has usb micro OTG, and I'm going to be a usb device
2021-03-12T13:36:45 < invzim> so idea is to plug an OTG adapter into a cutout of the pcb
2021-03-12T13:37:17 < zyp> uh
2021-03-12T13:37:22 < zyp> why not just a cable?
2021-03-12T13:37:54 < invzim> de10 side of things need the otg stuff to put it in host mode
2021-03-12T13:38:14 < zyp> yes, so why not a micro-a to micro-b cable or something?
2021-03-12T13:38:34 < invzim> hard to source and find, and plug correctly
2021-03-12T13:39:12 < zyp> does it have a proper micro-ab socket or does it do nonstandard otg over micro-b?
2021-03-12T13:39:31 < zyp> it's not hard to plug a micro-a plug correctly, it won't fit in a micro-b socket
2021-03-12T13:40:43 < invzim> otg micro b
2021-03-12T13:41:10 < zyp> doesn't exist in the spec :)
2021-03-12T13:41:31 < invzim> but millions of phones do it?
2021-03-12T13:41:58 < zyp> yep, and they are not spec compliant
2021-03-12T13:42:43 < zyp> spec says otg sockets should be micro-ab, not micro-b
2021-03-12T13:44:30 < invzim> hmm, maybe I'm missing something here
2021-03-12T13:44:46 < invzim> micro-ab is physically different from micro b?
2021-03-12T13:45:25 < zyp> plugs come in micro-a and micro-b, sockets come in micro-ab and micro-b, micro-a plugs only fit in micro-ab sockets, micro-b plugs fit in both
2021-03-12T13:46:56 < zyp> https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6c722da0310f6c26827e7606ec2d030f.webp
2021-03-12T13:47:27 < invzim> schematics says microab, but no problem in inserting a plain micro connector
2021-03-12T13:48:00 < zyp> obviously
2021-03-12T13:48:27 < zyp> if it's a proper micro-ab socket, then it will also fit a micro-a plug
2021-03-12T13:48:55 < invzim> ah, stm32 strikes again - I think it's an AB socket, as it's squaeish
2021-03-12T13:49:10 < zyp> good, then it's standard compliant
2021-03-12T13:49:31 < zyp> if you then put a b socket on your end, a micro-a to micro-b cable would only fit in one direction
2021-03-12T13:49:36 < invzim> so I would need a micro-ab to micro b cable
2021-03-12T13:49:50 < invzim> no, micro A to micro b
2021-03-12T13:50:03 < zyp> yeah, and I agree sourcing one might be a problem
2021-03-12T13:50:27 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001392920933.html <- first one I found uses a micro-b plug on the a end as well
2021-03-12T13:51:49 < zyp> not a big deal, plug it the wrong way around, all that'll happen is that the host stays in device mode
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2021-03-12T13:53:12 < invzim> so this is "easier", but not really compliant https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001283579021.html
2021-03-12T13:53:40 < invzim> and you can pick them up anywhere
2021-03-12T13:53:41 < zyp> well, yeah, it should also have had a micro-a plug
2021-03-12T13:54:48 < zyp> shame it's not usb-c :)
2021-03-12T13:54:48 < jpa-> my phone appears to have micro-b socket, even though it does support OTG
2021-03-12T13:55:14 < zyp> c-c cables are everywhere and can't be plugged the wrong way around :)
2021-03-12T13:56:28 < zyp> jpa-, yeah, I figure nonstandard phones is why you get all sorts of nonstandard bullshit cables
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2021-03-12T13:57:30 < zyp> I think I own a grand total of three a-coded micro-usb plugs, and two of them are a b-plug mechanically
2021-03-12T13:57:34 < jpa-> micro-A was always silly, just like usb3-micro-b
2021-03-12T13:57:54 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-12T13:58:10 < zyp> I don't get why they felt the need to prevent an A plug in a B socket
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2021-03-12T13:59:15 < zyp> the only danger has always been to connect a cable between two A sockets since they would power each other, and that's not prevented mechanically
2021-03-12T14:02:10 < qyx> TIL s/littlefuse/littelfuse
2021-03-12T14:23:20 < jpa-> and even that danger seems pretty small, considering hosts are required to limit the current
2021-03-12T14:37:48 < Laurenceb> whats the max current for usb c ?
2021-03-12T14:40:02 < Laurenceb> lolll Scottish heta criem bill passed
2021-03-12T14:40:18 < Laurenceb> dongs is now illegal in Scotland
2021-03-12T14:41:22  * Laurenceb spams Scotposters with transphobia then calls the police on them
2021-03-12T14:43:56 < Laurenceb> +ive side of Alstom:  I now get to shitpost all Friday afternoon
2021-03-12T14:44:01 < Laurenceb> this isnt so bad
2021-03-12T14:48:57 < zyp> Laurenceb, max how?
2021-03-12T14:49:17 < Laurenceb> physical maximum
2021-03-12T14:49:21 < Laurenceb> 2A or so?
2021-03-12T14:49:23 < zyp> 3A is negotiable with resistors, 5A is negotiable over PD
2021-03-12T14:49:28 < Laurenceb> oh wow ok
2021-03-12T14:49:36 < Laurenceb> thats pretty impressive
2021-03-12T14:49:43 < zyp> PD can do up to 100W by pushing 20V 5A
2021-03-12T14:49:51 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-12T14:50:11 < zyp> but default is 3A, spec requires all cables to be rated for at least 3A
2021-03-12T14:50:47 < zyp> but source ports can be less capable
2021-03-12T15:15:27 < Laurenceb> is it possible to have an adaptor to take power from a usb charger and data from a usb A socket to run a usb c socket?
2021-03-12T15:16:24 < qyx> what about using an A-C cable?
2021-03-12T15:17:15 < jpa-> Laurenceb: yeah, it is usually called USB PD injector: https://www.coolgear.com/product/usb-c-usb-b-power-delivery-adapter-wmounting-kit
2021-03-12T15:18:09 < qyx> but thats not from a USB charger
2021-03-12T15:18:17 < qyx> this one actually makes sense
2021-03-12T15:18:44 < Laurenceb> ok cool
2021-03-12T15:19:01 < Laurenceb> qyx: I was just thinking as an alternative to AC cable
2021-03-12T15:19:19 < Laurenceb> looks possibly doable, but I'll need an isolated DC-DC
2021-03-12T15:19:30 < effractur> you also have docks that do PD passtrough
2021-03-12T15:19:39 < effractur> so then you could supply it from a usb power adatper
2021-03-12T15:19:50 < BrainDamage> I wonder if we'd start seeing usb PD supply modules
2021-03-12T15:20:28 < BrainDamage> kinda like old style "universal power supply"
2021-03-12T15:20:40 < BrainDamage> so you can interface old equipment
2021-03-12T15:20:43 < jpa-> https://i-tec.pro/en/produkt/c31hubmetal4-2/   this appears to be similar but take the power using USB-C connector
2021-03-12T15:21:20 < jpa-> but that's actually other direction
2021-03-12T15:21:33 < jpa-> giving power to USB host, not to device
2021-03-12T15:22:20 < qyx> looks like a "PD tap"
2021-03-12T15:32:28 < zyp> it's a typical usb-c dock, just without altmodes
2021-03-12T15:33:01 < zyp> i.e. what effractur mentioned
2021-03-12T15:46:54 < qyx> "orcad is the industry most popular..." what?
2021-03-12T15:48:35 < ventyl> check the date
2021-03-12T15:48:45 < ventyl> maybe year starts with 199
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2021-03-12T17:52:28 < jadew> I'm a freaking genius
2021-03-12T17:53:18 < jadew> spent the better part of the day reverse engineering this counter, because it wasn't detecting an option, and it had to be the MCU, because the detection circuitry was going straight in
2021-03-12T17:53:57 < jadew> so I decided to hardcode it, which meant I had to take get the firmware from 4 memory chips, figure out how it's scrambled between them (it wasn't as straightforward as you might think)
2021-03-12T17:54:24 < jadew> familiarize myself with the architecture and the registers, find the code responsible for it, make a patch
2021-03-12T17:54:40 < jadew> and then the damn memory cheap is UV erasable with no window :/
2021-03-12T17:54:47 < jadew> *chip
2021-03-12T17:56:57 < ventyl> drill one
2021-03-12T17:57:15 < ventyl> either you succeed and you'll have erasable chip, or you'll erase it permanently
2021-03-12T17:57:38 < jadew> ventyl, yeah, I don't want to take that chance
2021-03-12T17:57:46 < jadew> I guess I'll have to wait for another one
2021-03-12T17:58:19 < jadew> hope I can find one that's electronically erasable and works the same
2021-03-12T18:04:57 < jadew> ffs... I needed it today
2021-03-12T18:05:57 < mawk> my nkon.nl batteries never arrived
2021-03-12T18:30:22 < karlp> have you tried speaking to them? actual people work there, it will get sorted out.
2021-03-12T18:30:45 < karlp> we received two postcards on wednesday.... that were sent 12 feb, 2020....
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2021-03-12T18:49:44 < karlp> re usb3-microb (which is dumdumdum) that's what was in side my daskeyboard, with a blob of glue.
2021-03-12T18:49:55 < karlp> so it looked a like a captive cable externally
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2021-03-12T19:02:09 < Steffanx> Yeah, y u no contact them mawk
2021-03-12T19:02:27 < mawk> I'm the customer
2021-03-12T19:02:29 < mawk> customer is kikg
2021-03-12T19:02:31 < mawk> king*
2021-03-12T19:02:40 < mawk> they have to contact me, not the other way around
2021-03-12T19:02:49 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-03-12T19:02:56 < mawk> actually they should be reading my mind
2021-03-12T19:03:55 < mawk> I made a special request when buying them, so someone handled my order then left it on a table or something
2021-03-12T19:33:35 < Laurenceb> who the fuck is Sarah Everard
2021-03-12T19:33:56 < Laurenceb> obviously the daughter of someone very powerful
2021-03-12T19:34:25 < Steffanx> I dont give a fuck, Laurenceb 
2021-03-12T19:34:39 < Laurenceb> that makes two o fus
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2021-03-12T20:11:49 < machinehum> jpa-: I immagine the second line you want to append? Or just write that one line to the file
2021-03-12T20:16:40 < qyx> karlp: oh so the chance my grow LEDs sent on Dec/2019 arrive is still alive
2021-03-12T20:21:38 < qyx> unrelated, how to drive a coil like this? https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/sp-1mh37-vs/audio-cievky/visaton/4986/
2021-03-12T20:21:53 < qyx> the first thing coming to my mind is a class-D amp
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2021-03-12T21:02:32 < Laurenceb> aha I got it
2021-03-12T21:02:43 < Laurenceb> backlight control breaks the keyboard on lunix mint
2021-03-12T21:02:54 < Laurenceb> quality codez
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2021-03-12T21:13:01 < Laurenceb> imagine being Scottish
2021-03-12T21:18:21 < mawk> Laurenceb: are you?
2021-03-12T21:18:47 < Laurenceb> luckily not
2021-03-12T21:18:51 < Laurenceb> or I'd be in jail
2021-03-12T21:18:59 < mawk> lol
2021-03-12T21:19:01 < mawk> why
2021-03-12T21:19:16 < Laurenceb> they passed their "hate crime" bill
2021-03-12T21:19:41 < Laurenceb> maybe they have the power to extradite me
2021-03-12T21:20:00 < mawk> lol
2021-03-12T21:20:12 < mawk> UK is lost anyway
2021-03-12T21:20:57 < Laurenceb> most of uk isnt as insane as Scotland
2021-03-12T21:21:14 < Laurenceb> >illegal to hate Trannies in private conversation
2021-03-12T21:32:14 < mawk> well
2021-03-12T21:32:17 < mawk> even gb is insane
2021-03-12T21:32:27 < mawk> the best token of insanity I think is your child social service system
2021-03-12T21:32:49 < mawk> with the mandatory quotas of child withdrawn from families
2021-03-12T21:33:01 < mawk> by my best friend tony blair
2021-03-12T21:52:06 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-12T22:01:53 < mawk> you like it Laurenceb ?
2021-03-12T22:02:07 < mawk> have children snatched away from people because they're poor
2021-03-12T22:02:19 < Laurenceb> as an incel this doesnt affect me
2021-03-12T22:02:25 < mawk> lol
2021-03-12T22:02:29 < mawk> you're not incel
2021-03-12T22:02:32 < mawk> you hit on women in bars
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2021-03-12T22:14:59 < LoneElf> Hey folks. Random question. When doing SPI DMA in continuous circular mode, is it possible to somehow insert a delay between each SPI transfer?
2021-03-12T22:20:18 < qyx> couldn't it be triggered by a timer instead of the tx buffer empty flag?
2021-03-12T22:20:51 < qyx> (setting the trigger period slightly more than 8 clocks)
2021-03-12T22:21:00 < LoneElf> Yeah. I've been considering how I might do that as well.
2021-03-12T22:21:15 < LoneElf> I'm using the STM HAL.
2021-03-12T22:21:36 < LoneElf> I have a timer, all I need to do is figure out how to get it to trigger the SPI transfer.
2021-03-12T22:22:39 < LoneElf> (I should say, I've been trying to figure out how to do this without using an ISR)
2021-03-12T22:23:00 < qyx> uh
2021-03-12T22:23:04 < qyx> I would trigger the DMA
2021-03-12T22:23:18 < qyx> SPI transfer starts when theres a value written to the data register, doesn't it?
2021-03-12T22:25:14 < LoneElf> Honestly, I'm a little foggy on that.
2021-03-12T22:26:14 < zyp> what qyx said
2021-03-12T22:26:49 < LoneElf> So the timer should drigger DMA, which will then start the SPI transfer?
2021-03-12T22:26:53 < LoneElf> *trigger
2021-03-12T22:27:01 < zyp> a dma job has three things: a trigger, a peripheral address and a memory address
2021-03-12T22:27:35 < machinehum> Why did I pick the 16k rom stm...
2021-03-12T22:27:51 < zyp> normally you'd point the peripheral address at a data register, and set the trigger to either TXE or RXNE for that register to read or write as soon as it's ready
2021-03-12T22:28:11 < zyp> but you're free to set the trigger to come from an entirely unrelated source, like a timer
2021-03-12T22:29:00 < LoneElf> Do you know if it is possible to do this through the HAL?
2021-03-12T22:29:04 < zyp> i.e. just configure a timer to generate dma requests, and then set the dma job to use that trigger to feed data to the spi DR
2021-03-12T22:29:17 < zyp> I don't know, I don't use HAL
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2021-03-12T22:40:36 < machinehum> What am I missing here sprintf here is 5k and sprintf from stdio is 900 bytes...
2021-03-12T22:40:39 < machinehum> https://github.com/mpaland/printf
2021-03-12T22:42:37 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-03-12T22:42:48 < Laurenceb> use rfprintf from pascal stang
2021-03-12T22:43:35 < Laurenceb> is there such a thing as usb c power injection with usb c at one side then usb c and usb a at the other, so you can inject power using a phone charger?
2021-03-12T22:43:43 < Laurenceb> guess I could just make one that does that
2021-03-12T23:04:53 < Steffanx> if it exists, zyp  knows
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2021-03-12T23:31:09 < invzim> anyone here done i2s?
2021-03-12T23:33:39 < t4nk_freenode> I mightta, ... what does she look like?
2021-03-12T23:34:11 < invzim> muaha
2021-03-12T23:34:37 < invzim> I want to "sniff" traffic between source and dac
2021-03-12T23:37:26 < invzim> I've never looked at it before, but not sure I'm getting the different between full and half duplex
2021-03-12T23:37:58 < invzim> master is the one providing the clock, that's easy enough
2021-03-12T23:38:13 < t4nk_freenode> I know very litle about that unfortunattely, sounds interesting though
2021-03-12T23:39:29 < Laurenceb> a bent duck
2021-03-12T23:40:25 < Steffanx> So setup a i2c slave and get that data invzim ?
2021-03-12T23:40:33 < invzim> i2S
2021-03-12T23:40:38 < Steffanx> Yeah 
2021-03-12T23:40:41 < Steffanx> Typo much
2021-03-12T23:40:57 < invzim> yeah i2s slave, but wtf is the half/full duplex about?
2021-03-12T23:41:32 < invzim> is it like a global clock, but p2p datalines or sumthing?
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2021-03-12T23:58:34 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.420
2021-03-12T23:58:42 < Laurenceb> TheTraveller is Roger Shawyer
2021-03-12T23:58:47 < Laurenceb> its got to be
--- Day changed Sat Mar 13 2021
2021-03-13T00:01:52 < Laurenceb> kekk oh wow https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16535.msg2007523#msg2007523
2021-03-13T00:02:14 < Laurenceb> Dont' get emotionally hijacked by the old guys who says its not possible.  If you aren't up to date with Quantum mechanics, you'll realize this was going to eventually happen despite immense resistance.  Everything is up for grabs.
2021-03-13T00:02:19 < Laurenceb> a new copypasta is born
2021-03-13T00:02:40 < Laurenceb> are u even up to date with Quantum Mechanics bro??
2021-03-13T00:04:33 < Laurenceb> oh wow he comes back with new legendary copypasta filling
2021-03-13T00:04:51 < Laurenceb> You are experiencing cognitive dissonance because of change.   It will make you act with a reptilian brain - fight (attack the messenger or find small flaws that submarine the big picture), flight (stay silent), freeze (poke fun), fawn (i'll believe it when it's on the market).
2021-03-13T00:08:12 < Steffanx> invzim: i only used "simplex", but in the end full duplex only seems to be another (slaved) i2s peripheral to handle it
2021-03-13T00:09:16 < Steffanx> http://comm.eefocus.com/media/download/index/id-1000986 according to this wonderful technical training (f3 stuff, not sure if the same applies to whatever F/H)
2021-03-13T00:14:56 < zyp> invzim, what do you mean half duplex? I don't think i2s has anything resembling half duplex
2021-03-13T00:16:02 < zyp> i2s is basically just a raw pcm stream, going one direction or the other, and then one end is driving the clock signals, can be either side
2021-03-13T00:16:51 < invzim> in cubemx, you can select full and half, with full you get an additional i2s2_ext_sd pin
2021-03-13T00:17:11 < zyp> clock signals consists of a bit clock (obviously), «lrclk» which gives you frame sync and channel and master clock which is something like bitclk * 256
2021-03-13T00:17:54 < zyp> lrclk is high for n bits and low for n bits, edges separates samples, high and low signals left and right channel
2021-03-13T00:18:57 < invzim> yub
2021-03-13T00:18:59 < zyp> ah
2021-03-13T00:19:11 < zyp> they call it half duplex if you only run a receiver or a transmitter
2021-03-13T00:19:38 < zyp> and full duplex if you have one input data and one output data running on the same clocks
2021-03-13T00:19:57 < invzim> so, p2p data lines, shared clock?
2021-03-13T00:20:48 < zyp> yes
2021-03-13T00:20:53 < Steffanx> if people only tried to open that pdf :P
2021-03-13T00:21:23 < invzim> Steffanx: hep, had a skim of it :)
2021-03-13T00:23:38 < invzim> ah, actually no - I had another F3 pdf up, yours is much better
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2021-03-13T00:46:42 < invzim> hm, this breaks my routing - but this stuff is routed via cables so trace length can't be all that critical..
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2021-03-13T02:50:59 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of hyperloop
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2021-03-13T04:00:03 < qyx> hello kaki shift
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2021-03-13T11:32:11 < Steffanx> Hello kakium69 late in the morning shift
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2021-03-13T16:16:02 < t4nk_freenode> so... I just unpacked my new soldering iron.. first thing I do: get burned alive.
2021-03-13T16:16:04 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-03-13T16:16:18 < t4nk_freenode> this is one long, long tradition
2021-03-13T16:22:32 < qyx> did you read the user manual with instruction how to hold the handle?
2021-03-13T16:29:18 < Laurenceb> the absolute state
2021-03-13T16:30:59 < t4nk_freenode> heheh.. qyx .. as a matter of fact, I tried the manual three times now, literally can't make heads nor tails of it
2021-03-13T16:31:32 < t4nk_freenode> however; I didn't hold it the wrong way 'round (yet)
2021-03-13T16:32:14 < t4nk_freenode> I tinned the tip and jousted it into a ball of steelywooly stuff
2021-03-13T16:32:37 < t4nk_freenode> some tin landed on 'me' hand
2021-03-13T16:53:23 < Laurenceb> circumcision is a ""tradition"" practised by religious groups such as Jews, Muslims, and... Americans
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2021-03-13T17:59:27 < t4nk_freenode> (heads or tails I think it was.)
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2021-03-13T18:06:11 < t4nk_freenode> soldered the headers onto a blue and a black pill.. one row on the black pill is rather crooked
2021-03-13T18:06:14 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-03-13T18:06:31 < t4nk_freenode> soldering went well with a C2 tip though
2021-03-13T18:06:36 < Steffanx> you suck.
2021-03-13T18:06:45 < t4nk_freenode> fraid so :|
2021-03-13T18:08:03 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-03-13T19:50:32 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/ts-c1.png   some TS-100 tips can be held like this :)
2021-03-13T19:52:10 < qyx> you mean like https://external-preview.redd.it/0kz2aiBV_tk5MTYBmebtaMgsIzD4gVXE3fzt9w2ySm0.jpg?auto=webp&s=752c98cd5d1676e174b99243a702c2860a4bc0de
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2021-03-13T19:58:12 < jpa-> qyx: yeah
2021-03-13T20:05:52 < qyx> I am encountering a gdb issue
2021-03-13T20:05:59 < qyx> Warn : GDB connection 1 on target stm32l4x.cpu not halted
2021-03-13T20:06:10 < qyx> Info : Halt timed out, wake up GDB.
2021-03-13T20:07:58 < qyx> this is the output https://paste.jvnv.net/view/e0ieJ
2021-03-13T20:08:20 < qyx> I think it may be related to the STOP mode, but I have enabled debug in STOP mode
2021-03-13T20:08:30 < qyx> using stlinkv3 and v3 both works
2021-03-13T20:08:38 < qyx> *v2 and v3
2021-03-13T20:09:33 < jpa-> have you checked that the "debug in stop mode" flag is actually set? on some models it cannot be written until debugger is connected
2021-03-13T20:10:40 < qyx> how does the target know if debugger is connected?
2021-03-13T20:11:05 < qyx> I mean, whats the difference between rpi-gpio and stlink?
2021-03-13T20:11:11 < qyx> does stlink do something on the background?
2021-03-13T20:11:14 < jpa-> debugger goes and sets some funny bit that can only be set through SWD/JTAG
2021-03-13T20:11:38 < jpa-> yes, stlink does do things on background, but not sure if it does anything related to this
2021-03-13T20:11:55 < qyx> ok interesting
2021-03-13T20:12:04 < jpa-> the other day i learned that stlink firmware sets a bit that affects whether debugger memory access goes through data cache or not
2021-03-13T20:12:20 < qyx> let's check the DBGMCU_CR_STOP
2021-03-13T20:13:17 < jpa-> https://github.com/ntfreak/openocd/blob/master/tcl/target/stm32f4x.cfg#L84  looks like openocd goes and sets that flag also
2021-03-13T20:14:33 < qyx> yeah but only if it is able to connect
2021-03-13T20:14:44 < qyx> I am stop-sleeping from the start
2021-03-13T20:23:39 < qyx> interesting is the gdb is able to connect
2021-03-13T20:23:58 < jpa-> "stm32l4x.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints" also suggests it gets connected to target
2021-03-13T20:24:12 < jpa-> "stm32l4x.cpu: external reset detected" sounds like NRST is low
2021-03-13T20:27:54 < qyx> I didn't notice that, I have this in the config https://paste.jvnv.net/view/wRizu
2021-03-13T20:28:31 < qyx> tbh I am not quite sure how to configure the reset and the manual didn't make it clear to me neither
2021-03-13T20:30:10 < t4nk_freenode> I just had such an error when I switched from the fake to the original pill... 'connect under reset' was active, set that to software reset and it was ok
2021-03-13T20:32:28 < t4nk_freenode> from within cubeide that is
2021-03-13T20:34:31 < qyx> okay it works when I disconnect NRST
2021-03-13T20:34:48 < qyx> so the reset config is wrong
2021-03-13T20:37:36 < qyx> ok got it working with arm-none-eabi-gdb -ex "target extended-remote tcp:10.70.114.108:3333" -ex "load" -ex "monitor reset" -ex "set confirm off" -ex "quit" main.elf
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2021-03-13T23:43:04 < karlp> qyx: just use oocd directly instead of gdb: https://paste.centos.org/view/17a6e654
2021-03-13T23:43:12 < karlp> will connect to a running instance or start a new one...
2021-03-13T23:45:15 < karlp> did you really need the tcp: ? never had to do that before...
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2021-03-13T23:46:30 < qyx> karlp: I am flashing over wifi
2021-03-13T23:46:57 < qyx> wait what
2021-03-13T23:47:08 < qyx> what does the script do?
2021-03-13T23:47:26 < qyx> oh tcl localhost only
2021-03-13T23:47:51 < qyx> yeah it would have to send the elf over tcl too
--- Day changed Sun Mar 14 2021
2021-03-14T00:00:03 < karlp> no, you can tcl anywhere, just add a bindto 0.0.0.0 to your openocd cfg
2021-03-14T00:00:18 < karlp> you can pull out the bits of nc and oocd commands you need.
2021-03-14T00:00:54 < karlp> old oocd used to listen on 0.0.0.0 but "some people" didn't like the idea of websocket proxy shit in browsers making tcl requests to call file exec shit....
2021-03-14T00:00:59 < karlp> so it defaults to localhost only now.
2021-03-14T00:01:55 < karlp> but yeah, the elf I guess had to be remotely accessible
2021-03-14T00:02:02 < karlp> hrmm, I thought I had a way around that in the past....
2021-03-14T00:02:20  * karlp hopes it wasn't "just use gdb" and he's been leading qyx along for no reason...
2021-03-14T00:03:33 < karlp> PaulFertser: is there anyway of sending the file to oocd? or would you have to use the raw rcp interface? (at which point gdb scripting is probably just as good)
2021-03-14T00:04:30 < karlp> g0 boards on ali: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001493640515.html
2021-03-14T00:06:10 < Steffanx> cool
2021-03-14T00:06:20 < zyp> with some shitty usb serial adapter
2021-03-14T00:06:22 < zyp> meh
2021-03-14T00:06:37 < Steffanx> oh lol
2021-03-14T00:06:46 < zyp> lowend g0 doesn't have usb
2021-03-14T00:07:01 < zyp> parts with usb are announced, but not sure they are obtainable yet
2021-03-14T00:07:48 < qyx> karlp: :D
2021-03-14T00:07:58 < karlp> yea yah, sorry.
2021-03-14T00:12:00 < Steffanx> Remove the ic and you still have a nice g0 on a board :P
2021-03-14T00:12:54 < karlp> well, it's not like some boards that hijacked usb to do that sort of thing, it's just a usb2uart, with solder bridges you can cut to disconnect it if you like
2021-03-14T00:13:01 < karlp> seems reasonably sensible
2021-03-14T00:19:31 < karlp> is it just me, or is rd6006p worse than rd6006? it has more digits, but less accuracy in everything else?
2021-03-14T00:23:21 < qyx> fuk the RN2483
2021-03-14T00:24:16 < Steffanx> language, qyx 
2021-03-14T00:26:00 < karlp> is that actually an old roving design? or did they just keep RN for microchip rf designs?
2021-03-14T00:26:14 < karlp> (are tehre any current MRFxxxx parts?)
2021-03-14T00:27:35 < qyx> I am much sorry Steffanx 
2021-03-14T00:27:49 < qyx> no, quite new modules
2021-03-14T00:28:12 < qyx> the internet is full of ardweeno people complaining the downling is not working properly
2021-03-14T00:29:24 < qyx> https://forum.chirpstack.io/t/rn2483-dont-send-mac-tx-ok/1254/2
2021-03-14T00:29:34 < qyx> hm, I didn't try the ack thing yet
2021-03-14T00:30:25 < qyx> works now \o/
2021-03-14T00:35:52 < qyx> Steffanx: how was your day, are you ok?
2021-03-14T00:36:49 < Steffanx> my day was fine fine. And so am i :)
2021-03-14T00:36:54 < Steffanx> How about mr qyx ?
2021-03-14T00:37:36 < qyx> basement mode and not enough waffels
2021-03-14T00:37:45 < Steffanx> oh, same here
2021-03-14T00:37:59 < Steffanx> i wonder if i even had stroopwafels this year
2021-03-14T00:38:29 < qyx> I don't shop in lidl during pandemic so..
2021-03-14T00:39:00 < Steffanx> i should ship you the only real stroopwafels. Kanjers.
2021-03-14T00:39:23 < Steffanx> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/karlp/zypsnips/master/stroop-delivery-englishman.jpg :D
2021-03-14T00:41:33 < qyx> :D
2021-03-14T00:51:21 < englishman> :D
2021-03-14T00:57:07 < BrainDamage> englishman: do you go hunting?
2021-03-14T00:57:29 < englishman> yes, used to do geese, now just turkey
2021-03-14T00:58:34 < BrainDamage> ah, otherwise I'd have made fun of you for the tacticool camo, but for a hunter it's justified
2021-03-14T00:59:32 < englishman> lol that's the only colour they had in stock.
2021-03-14T00:59:40 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/PObkDRq.jpg
2021-03-14T01:00:17 < BrainDamage> doing dirty things to a bird on cam
2021-03-14T01:01:22 < qyx> is it ded?
2021-03-14T01:01:27 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/ggeIprj.jpg
2021-03-14T01:02:13 < englishman> i brine it for a week then smoke it. the most delicious meat i have ever had. one breast is about 2kg too
2021-03-14T01:02:33 < BrainDamage> how much do you have to discard around the wound?
2021-03-14T01:02:49 < englishman> you aim for the head/neck, so usually none
2021-03-14T01:03:07 < englishman> shooting the body is a good way to ensure a slow and painful death. their feathers are like armour
2021-03-14T01:09:58 < aandrew> Steffanx: you hunted those stroopwafels?
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2021-03-14T01:11:40 < Steffanx> Not my photo aandrew ;)
2021-03-14T01:12:52 < BrainDamage> he'd display them hanging upside down if he was, as per tradition
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2021-03-14T02:04:28 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-03-14T02:05:42 < qyx> kaki kaki
2021-03-14T02:07:14 < kakium69> how is innovation qyx?
2021-03-14T02:07:37 < qyx> fighting with RN2483
2021-03-14T02:09:06 < kakium69> did you finish that vibration sensor thing?
2021-03-14T02:09:43 < qyx> working on it atm
2021-03-14T02:19:28 < kakium69> it's wireless?
2021-03-14T02:22:36 < kakium69> I think there is some canine outside
2021-03-14T02:23:02 < kakium69> I heard something like panting or constant barking
2021-03-14T02:24:44 < kakium69> one day there was tracks on snow of full size canine
2021-03-14T02:25:26 < kakium69> not enought detail though to tell if it was big hunting dog or wolf
2021-03-14T03:04:12 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapetum_lucidum
2021-03-14T03:04:53 < kakium69> I went outside with a torchlight and in the edge of forrest ground level I saw eyeshine
2021-03-14T03:08:04 < kakium69> tommorow I drive snowmobile there and see what was there
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2021-03-14T03:49:23 < Steffanx> It was a Yeti kakium69 
2021-03-14T03:49:38 < kakium69> it was mörkö
2021-03-14T03:52:19 < qyx> what is a morko
2021-03-14T03:52:51 < qyx> https://suomenkielen.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/morko/
2021-03-14T03:52:52 < qyx> noice
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2021-03-14T04:07:09 < Steffanx> The good old moomin 
2021-03-14T04:12:22 < kakium69> mörkö is generally "boogieman"
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2021-03-14T04:14:37 < kakium69> and description is pretty much like yeti
2021-03-14T04:14:40 < kakium69> so steff is right
2021-03-14T04:16:51 < kakium69> big primate with fur and long nails and teeth
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2021-03-14T04:20:33 < kakium69> 420
2021-03-14T04:23:06 < Steffanx> Pi day, kakium69 
2021-03-14T04:23:30 < kakium69> 143?
2021-03-14T04:23:52 < Steffanx> 3/14
2021-03-14T04:24:14 < kakium69> I don't know that format
2021-03-14T04:24:40 < Steffanx> That's your mistake 
2021-03-14T04:24:51 < Steffanx> But its officially pi day
2021-03-14T04:45:16 < vegii> I got STM8 chips off aliexpress
2021-03-14T04:45:57 < vegii> you wouldn't believe what happened
2021-03-14T04:46:29 < qyx> did they send you stm32 instead
2021-03-14T04:46:45 < vegii> lol 
2021-03-14T04:47:08 < qyx> are they fakes and have 8051 inside?
2021-03-14T04:47:27 < vegii> no, they've actually sent me genuine stm8, it seems
2021-03-14T04:47:38 < qyx> is it unusual?
2021-03-14T04:47:58 < qyx> so, what happened
2021-03-14T04:48:05 < vegii> the attiny13a I got are fake...
2021-03-14T04:48:20 < vegii> but stm8 look genuine
2021-03-14T04:49:46 < vegii> there even seems to be some QQ contact info on the fake attiny13
2021-03-14T04:57:28 < vegii> and yea, at this point I think it is unusual to get real chips from ali
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2021-03-14T13:17:24 < Laurenceb> top fucking keeeekkkkk
2021-03-14T13:17:26 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56389824
2021-03-14T13:17:34 < Laurenceb> thot patrol meme is now real
2021-03-14T13:25:06 < Laurenceb> >women get shit from fascist pigs like everyone else has been getting for years
2021-03-14T13:25:12 < Laurenceb> true equality tbh
2021-03-14T14:04:59 < t4nk_freenode> vegii, you Could go down to 1-bit computing if you use plain transistors youknow? :b
2021-03-14T14:07:41 < vegii> t4nk_freenode: plain transistors are also fake
2021-03-14T14:08:10 < t4nk_freenode> lol, yeah, that crossed my mind
2021-03-14T14:08:38 < vegii> bc547, 2n2222, 2n3604 all seem to be the same chip, just different pinout
2021-03-14T14:08:51 < t4nk_freenode> but really.. there are shops that offer you a choice between fake chips and 'real' chips
2021-03-14T14:10:30 < vegii> meh, they still work
2021-03-14T14:16:39 < Steffanx> China likes to use stm8 so they just have real stm8s...
2021-03-14T14:19:06 < Steffanx> Fuck this aliexpress mcu shopping anyway
2021-03-14T14:21:13 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwWgQ_NXAAAny3u?format=jpg&name=large
2021-03-14T14:32:16 < Laurenceb> coming up on 1 year since virus
2021-03-14T14:32:44  * Laurenceb remembers his epin survivalist fantasies getting eternally btfo'd
2021-03-14T14:32:57 < Laurenceb> >got to supermarket 1 hour after emergency broadcast
2021-03-14T14:33:14 < Laurenceb> >entire building had been literally ransacked, nothing inside
2021-03-14T14:34:26 < Laurenceb> bascially
2021-03-14T14:34:44 < Laurenceb> >what you think would happen: ur epin bunker protects you and family
2021-03-14T14:35:06 < Laurenceb> >what actually happens: you are 5 minutes late for the supermarket raid, no food so you die
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2021-03-14T15:19:30 < mawk> >criticised officers for "physically manhandling women"
2021-03-14T15:19:37 < mawk> but but equality
2021-03-14T15:20:04 < Steffanx> shit someone actually opens blaxter links.. assuming thats what you replied to
2021-03-14T15:20:44 < mawk> of course
2021-03-14T15:20:53 < Steffanx> Are you enjoying the dutch weather mawk ? Sunny, rain, hail... all in a repeating cycle like each hours
2021-03-14T15:20:59 < Steffanx> *hour
2021-03-14T15:21:05 < mawk> you like charlie Laurenceb ?
2021-03-14T15:21:30 < Laurenceb> its pretty trollish
2021-03-14T15:21:31 < mawk> yes Steffanx
2021-03-14T15:21:40 < mawk> it's very entertaining
2021-03-14T15:21:41 < mawk> yes Laurenceb 
2021-03-14T15:21:46 < mawk> I have the whole collection of it since 30 years
2021-03-14T15:21:53 < mawk> of all the drawings
2021-03-14T15:22:04 < mawk> and some of the drawings before they were named charlie but harakiri
2021-03-14T15:22:21 < mawk> it had porn in it, but they removed the porn when they renamed charlie hebdo
2021-03-14T15:22:33 < mawk> they had a partnership with an actual whorehouse to take funny porn pictures
2021-03-14T15:22:47 < mawk> they had to change their name when they made fun of De Gaulle death
2021-03-14T15:22:54 < mawk> they got dissolved by the government
2021-03-14T15:23:28 < effractur> Steffanx: "wisselvallig" 
2021-03-14T15:23:53 < Steffanx> Yeah, but the last few days its has been very wisselvallig effractur 
2021-03-14T15:24:04 < Steffanx> imho unusual wisselvallig
2021-03-14T15:24:19 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-03-14T15:24:21 < Laurenceb> https://www.railforums.co.uk/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEvdnxP9XIAQMInA%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3D900x900&hash=725a26febd6ae7fc8ee5b71ea95b4a47
2021-03-14T15:24:28 < Laurenceb> now u can commute to the tip
2021-03-14T15:24:59 < mawk> is it the auschwitz train?
2021-03-14T15:25:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-14T15:36:13 < t4nk_freenode> perhaps there are some kaboutertjes playing with the weather dial
2021-03-14T15:54:51 < mawk> Steffanx: telegram added a new "local group" functionality
2021-03-14T15:54:56 < mawk> so I went into the delft local group
2021-03-14T15:55:00 < mawk> it's either whores or drug dealers
2021-03-14T15:55:14 < mawk> try to go in your local group to see
2021-03-14T15:55:21 < mawk> maybe you will meet the love of your life
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2021-03-14T16:03:54 < t4nk_freenode> my love of my life doesn't exist :((
2021-03-14T16:04:09 < Steffanx> Youre not talk about this nearby people feature are you mawk ?
2021-03-14T16:04:09 < t4nk_freenode> it's a french woman without a moustache
2021-03-14T16:04:22 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-03-14T16:04:26 < mawk> nearby people feature
2021-03-14T16:04:31 < mawk> and you can have nearby groups also
2021-03-14T16:05:07 < Steffanx> https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/01/05/telegrams-people-nearby-feature-reveals-exact-user-locations-through-triangulation/ have fun locating your whores
2021-03-14T16:05:44 < mawk> I guess they patched it
2021-03-14T16:05:50 < mawk> or introduced some randomness in it
2021-03-14T16:06:00 < mawk> because the ex which has nearby people enabled is said to be 100m away
2021-03-14T16:06:03 < mawk> but she's 1m away
2021-03-14T16:06:25 < Steffanx> lol your ex moved back in?
2021-03-14T16:06:33 < Steffanx> nevermind, dont want to know
2021-03-14T16:06:50 < mawk> she hasn't moved away yet
2021-03-14T16:06:54 < mawk> she's sticky
2021-03-14T16:13:50 < t4nk_freenode> moreover.. it's probably her house to begin with :b
2021-03-14T16:28:48 < mawk> lol
2021-03-14T16:28:50 < mawk> no
2021-03-14T16:28:52 < mawk> it's mine
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2021-03-14T17:51:56 < englishman> https://blog.honzamrazek.cz/2017/10/diy-through-hole-plating-of-pcbs/
2021-03-14T18:00:31 < qyx> heh
2021-03-14T18:02:30 < BrainDamage> "As bottom line – I am not going to start make all my PCBs at home. I don’t think it is worth it in 95 % of the cases. I tried this experiment for fun and for educational purposes."
2021-03-14T18:02:36 < BrainDamage> at least he's honest
2021-03-14T18:03:07 < BrainDamage> re: bubbles and surface tension for small holes, agitation helps a lot
2021-03-14T18:03:57 < BrainDamage> or you could add a tiny amount of surfactant ( read: dishwashing soap ), but I'm not sure what kind of chemical mess it'd make
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2021-03-14T18:12:33 < aandrew> englishman: interesting. I wonder if any conductive graphite paint woudl work, and also wonder why you can't just apply it to the holes intead of the whole (heh) board and use vacuum to ensure the holes are still open
2021-03-14T18:13:00 < aandrew> BrainDamage: yeah he used polysorbate 20 to reduce surface tension
2021-03-14T18:13:41 < aandrew> but yeah it's an interesting experiment, something to keep in your bag of tricks, but won't replace sending out to chinese PCB factories anytime soon
2021-03-14T18:14:35 < aandrew> I got a little 3018 mill with one of the intentions being quick and dirty one-sided SMT PCBs for when I get a wild hair up my ass and want to test something and deadbugging is too much work
2021-03-14T18:24:02 < BrainDamage> another possibility would be to run the electroplating under vaccuum
2021-03-14T18:24:31 < BrainDamage> this way you can be sure there's no bubbles neither in the holes nor on the surface
2021-03-14T18:27:48 < BrainDamage> mmm, for the paint, I wonder if you can spray conductive paint
2021-03-14T18:29:02 < BrainDamage> add a small aspirator spray on the cnc, and a small compressor to spray paint the surface evenly on both sides
2021-03-14T18:29:09 < BrainDamage> also, it's not manual
2021-03-14T18:30:18 < BrainDamage> instead of baking tho i'd mix in a solvent, this has double pourpose, it makes it thinner to spray more easily, and you can just let the solvent evaporate
2021-03-14T18:33:27 < BrainDamage> if the spray paint cnc works, you could use it even for silkscreen in principle
2021-03-14T18:33:53 < Laurenceb> vacuum is how I solved the problem of bubbles in silicone resin
2021-03-14T18:34:00 < Laurenceb> for casting parts
2021-03-14T18:36:10 < BrainDamage> I need to dig if I can find my old cnc, I do have a hobby sized spray paint system, I might just try it myself
2021-03-14T18:36:57 < aandrew> BrainDamage: yeah I have liquid graphite for lubricating, it's exactly as you describe
2021-03-14T18:37:09 < aandrew> it makes a hell of a mess but when the solvent evaporates everything is coated
2021-03-14T18:37:41 < aandrew> the problem with cnc spray is of course making a hell of a mess of the CNC itself
2021-03-14T18:37:53 < aandrew> but if you had one that you could sacrifice, it wouldn't even have to be super accurate
2021-03-14T18:38:19 < BrainDamage> mmm
2021-03-14T18:38:49 < BrainDamage> just a plastic tupperware for downwards and lateral splatter migh suffice
2021-03-14T18:39:01 < aandrew> of course if you're spraying something conductive you've also got to worry about that shit getting into the spindle motor
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2021-03-14T18:39:05 < BrainDamage> there might need a shield for the z ais
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2021-03-14T18:39:16 < aandrew> your ways would be nice and lubricated though :-)
2021-03-14T18:40:27 < BrainDamage> a horizontal plate with holes drilled for the chuck and the spray nozzle mightt suffice
2021-03-14T18:41:07 < aandrew> but again, if you're going to that trouble why not just just go from hole to hole and drip a few drops in each hole instead of doing it under pressure
2021-03-14T18:41:37 < aandrew> doesn't have to be super accurate either and saves a lot of mess
2021-03-14T18:41:45 < aandrew> not to mention a lot of conductive paint
2021-03-14T18:42:56 < BrainDamage> so that you don't clog the hole
2021-03-14T18:43:16 < BrainDamage> you can squirt just the holes, sure
2021-03-14T18:43:17 < mawk> use sodium hydroxide if you have clogged holes
2021-03-14T18:43:27 < mawk> or macrogol 3000, that works well for other kind of holes
2021-03-14T18:43:33 < BrainDamage> and lots of lube?
2021-03-14T18:43:40 < mawk> lol
2021-03-14T18:43:54 < mawk> the lube is for going the opposite direction
2021-03-14T18:44:23 < mawk> aandrew he had the paint only in spray form right?
2021-03-14T18:44:27 < mawk> that's why probably
2021-03-14T18:44:35 < mawk> also he said it dries up very quickly
2021-03-14T18:44:48 < mawk> you could probably spray in a bowl and redissolve it with the proper solvant though
2021-03-14T18:44:50 < BrainDamage> mmm, alternative idea would be to drop the liquid, let it cure and drill it with the cnc
2021-03-14T18:44:54 < aandrew> mawk: I think so yes. 
2021-03-14T18:44:57 < mawk> a heavy solvent that doesn't evaporate too fasr
2021-03-14T18:45:00 < mawk> fast
2021-03-14T18:45:29 < mawk> that seems brittle BrainDamage 
2021-03-14T18:45:39 < mawk> or you need extremely fine tolerances 
2021-03-14T18:45:46 < aandrew> BrainDamage: I don't think that'd work well, drilling the cured liquid "puddle" would not put the stuff in the new hole would it
2021-03-14T18:46:33 < BrainDamage> the conductive thing is meant to be replaced by the electroplating systemm
2021-03-14T18:46:46 < mawk> not replaced but built on no?
2021-03-14T18:46:54 < mawk> kinda
2021-03-14T18:46:59 < BrainDamage> some replace, some coat
2021-03-14T18:47:03 < mawk> ah
2021-03-14T18:47:11 < BrainDamage> depends which reaction
2021-03-14T18:47:21 < BrainDamage> the coat wouldn't work, no, too brittle indeed
2021-03-14T18:49:18 < aandrew> yeah I thought it built on top of the graphite, so if you were to cut it apart after you'd see copper, then graphite, then FR4
2021-03-14T18:50:21 < aandrew> also interesting how keeping the current down helped prevent a "bumpy" surface, although I like the idea of just keeping the whole thing under a bit of a vacuum to eliminate the problem altogether
2021-03-14T18:51:43 < mawk> that was just a supposition right?
2021-03-14T18:51:51 < mawk> he said he hadn't tried with higher current
2021-03-14T18:52:53 < aandrew> mawk: down in the comments someone recreated it and wasn't paying attention to the current and it looked like shit
2021-03-14T18:53:00 < aandrew> could be other reasons though too
2021-03-14T18:54:26 < mawk> ah
2021-03-14T18:55:28 < aandrew> like others mentioned though agitation would probably help a lot too
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2021-03-14T19:23:35 < Steffanx> So hows Pi day mawk ?
2021-03-14T19:23:47 < Steffanx> You must have celebrated
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2021-03-14T19:33:10 < mawk> pirfect Steffanx 
2021-03-14T19:43:25 < bitmask> hello
2021-03-14T20:03:45 < Laurenceb> Living in government daycare for 4 years, getting up at 6am to do paperwork 7 days a week and occasionally jetwashing the odd land rover for excitement is much more fullfilling than being neet because you can wear a uniform and get anally raped with munitions
2021-03-14T20:08:59 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56389824
2021-03-14T20:09:09 < Laurenceb> ywlts thot patrol meme irl
2021-03-14T20:25:38 < t4nk_freenode> hi bitmask ;)
2021-03-14T20:44:25 < catphish> why is the government complaining that the police stopped an illegal activity that they themselves made illegal?
2021-03-14T20:47:00 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2JqTSOh720
2021-03-14T20:47:03 < Laurenceb> keeekkk
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2021-03-14T21:08:38 < qyx> PaulFertser: hows the situation in Moscow now?
2021-03-14T21:08:58 < qyx> aer the numbers decreasing?
2021-03-14T21:09:34 < PaulFertser> qyx: same, almost no restrictions, the numbers are steady for the last few weeks.
2021-03-14T21:10:20 < qyx> is it known how many are vaccinated?
2021-03-14T21:10:59 < BrainDamage> I might get the vaccine in a couple of weeks
2021-03-14T21:11:08 < qyx> AZ?
2021-03-14T21:12:30 < BrainDamage> probably pfizer, because my father having alzheimer is classified as "fragile person" and the vaccine choice is extended to the proxime family as cautionary measure
2021-03-14T21:12:59 < BrainDamage> as in, they'll vaccinate us along my father, and it's going to be likely the same vaccine
2021-03-14T21:13:14 < qyx> oh
2021-03-14T21:13:37 < BrainDamage> AZ is deemed safe, but since there's slightly higher incidence of fever, etc, as cautionary measure it's not given to fragile individuals
2021-03-14T21:14:18 < BrainDamage> so normal person would just be at worst under the weather for a day or so
2021-03-14T21:16:49 < qyx> here the people are fearing they possibly get trombosis and die
2021-03-14T21:16:54 < qyx> because of the news in the tv
2021-03-14T21:17:11 < qyx> or whatever it was exactly
2021-03-14T21:17:30 < BrainDamage> there's some scaremongering here too, but not in the news, just social media
2021-03-14T21:18:04 < BrainDamage> the echo chamber of all the paranoias
2021-03-14T21:19:10 < BrainDamage> the incidence of trombosis of AZ is identical to unvaccinated people, so ...
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2021-03-14T21:34:46 < Steffanx> no moderna or janssen in IT yet? 
2021-03-14T21:35:02 < Steffanx> oh janssen is not there yet
2021-03-14T21:58:58 < mawk> what is "ywlts" Laurenceb 
2021-03-14T22:03:31 < Laurenceb> you will live to see
2021-03-14T22:04:59 < BrainDamage> moderna is available
2021-03-14T22:45:55 < PaulFertser> qyx: I'd need to check but not really many. People are sceptical for whatever reason. Probably thanks to extreme putin's PR, probably just because they're used to not trust vaccines (seems to be new, as during the soviet times vaccine dissidents were really few afaik)
--- Day changed Mon Mar 15 2021
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2021-03-15T00:25:54 < Steffanx> So hows it going there? When will you get it?
2021-03-15T00:25:58 < Steffanx> Mr qyx 
2021-03-15T00:27:31 < qyx> we are still alive
2021-03-15T00:28:32 < qyx> I would say, despite the fact our gov makes everything possible to kill us
2021-03-15T00:28:45 < qyx> now they are in a conditionally stable state
2021-03-15T00:29:32 < qyx> so either our PM and few others leave or we are going to have new elections
2021-03-15T00:29:45 < qyx> PaulFertser may have heard about our PM in russian news
2021-03-15T00:30:05 < qyx> apparently he was (ab)used fo propaganda
2021-03-15T00:31:20 < qyx> he decided to buy 2M sputniks and didn't tell anyone
2021-03-15T00:31:24 < qyx> and he actually did it
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2021-03-15T01:00:31 < Steffanx> But if its a good vaccine, you should be happy 
2021-03-15T01:01:54 < qyx> yeah unregistered
2021-03-15T01:09:38 < kakium69> isn't sputnik the best vaccine atm.?
2021-03-15T01:20:53 < Steffanx> No one knows kakium69 
2021-03-15T01:21:06 < Steffanx> Got real numbers on the sputnik?
2021-03-15T01:28:23 < kakium69> no
2021-03-15T01:33:41 < kakium69> it says on par with western vaccines but stabile in refrigerator temperatures
2021-03-15T01:36:05 < kakium69> in comparison to -70c
2021-03-15T01:37:46 < catphish> uk developed vaccine is also stable at normal fridge temp
2021-03-15T02:08:00 < kakium69> astrazeneca
2021-03-15T02:08:42 < kakium69> ah so sputnik and astrazeneca are like on par then and everything else is lesser
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2021-03-15T03:48:15 < machinehum> Does anyone know where I can get some more info on this number? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3-examples/blob/master/examples/stm32/f1/lisa-m-1/usb_cdcacm/cdcacm.c#L62
2021-03-15T03:48:21 < machinehum> Looking like I can't just make it bigger
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2021-03-15T08:14:55 < jpa-> machinehum: usb full-speed has a maximum of 64 bytes per packet
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2021-03-15T09:56:15 < zyp>  you can't just arbitrary make it smaller either, it has to be one of a few supported values
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2021-03-15T10:25:32 < skz81> :j #kicad
2021-03-15T10:25:39 < skz81> ooops
2021-03-15T10:25:50 < jpa-> welcome to #kicad
2021-03-15T10:25:53 < Steffanx> Don't do it skz81. Join #altidongs (aka altium)
2021-03-15T10:26:38 < skz81> Steffanx, i'm not rich enough to afford a license of that i believe...
2021-03-15T10:26:41 < Steffanx> And dont forget to join #stm32 telegram for dongs_'s daily altium raging 
2021-03-15T10:31:25 < skz81> Whooo 8500€/yr i was not expecting it that high... I was about to faint for a few seconds...
2021-03-15T10:32:35 < R2COM> kicad, why not
2021-03-15T10:32:38 < R2COM> it got so much better
2021-03-15T10:33:02 < R2COM> however, you cant do proper DDR3 pcb analysis there tho
2021-03-15T10:33:13 < R2COM> (needs separate software too etc)
2021-03-15T10:33:29 < R2COM> cadence drives me crazy i starting hating it
2021-03-15T10:45:24 < effractur> just give it a few more years and you van do DDR3/4 stuff in kicad too
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2021-03-15T10:47:34 < jpa-> what is missing for it?
2021-03-15T10:47:52 < jpa-> aren't trace lengths enough, or does it need inter-trace capacitance analysis or something?
2021-03-15T10:52:19 < qyx> idk when I was reading stuff about lpddr3 there was only length matching and 1/3 or so rule
2021-03-15T10:52:39 < qyx> so to keep the clearance as big as possible
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2021-03-15T11:05:10 < R2COM> lo
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2021-03-15T11:50:31 < Laurenceb> wtf argggg
2021-03-15T11:50:38 < Laurenceb> why wont teams die
2021-03-15T11:51:37 < Steffanx> Go back to zoom.
2021-03-15T11:51:57 < Steffanx> For me teams has been working fine so far
2021-03-15T11:51:58 < Laurenceb> gunna have to sudo killall -9 teams
2021-03-15T11:52:43 < Laurenceb> its spawned a bazillion processes that are hugging cpu and ram
2021-03-15T11:52:47 < Steffanx> OK the chat can be better, like a way to reply to a specific message, but... it works and isn't worse than irc :D
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2021-03-15T11:54:45 < Laurenceb> yay 2GB more ram
2021-03-15T12:06:16 < Laurenceb> https://www.r00t.cz/Sats/Falcon9
2021-03-15T12:06:18 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-15T12:10:27 < Laurenceb> how the hell did he work that out
2021-03-15T12:10:38 < Laurenceb> unless someone at spacex leaked the config...
2021-03-15T12:11:03 < Laurenceb> guess you could brute force it by writing a script to iterate through all the options
2021-03-15T12:11:04 < mawk> probably asked musk on twitter
2021-03-15T12:11:10 < mawk> musk is bipolar enough that he could answer the question
2021-03-15T12:11:16 < Laurenceb> yeah I think someone leaked the config data to him
2021-03-15T12:11:53 < Laurenceb> surprisingly simple system on falcon 9 tho, just a bunch of off the shelf shit stuck together
2021-03-15T12:12:17 < Laurenceb> simpler than high altitude balloon ssdv
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2021-03-15T12:14:11 < Laurenceb> that uses highly modified mjpeg
2021-03-15T12:15:16 < Laurenceb> falcon 9 video could probably be done with bash scripts on rpi lol
2021-03-15T12:16:34 < Laurenceb> inb4 someone hacks the control uplink
2021-03-15T12:16:59 < mawk> lol
2021-03-15T12:17:58 < Laurenceb> keek the gps debug
2021-03-15T12:18:16 < Laurenceb> why am I picturing an arduino connected to a ublox module
2021-03-15T12:18:22 < qyx> :>
2021-03-15T12:18:50 < mawk> spacex is a collection of successful make:rs, you've cracked the code Laurenceb 
2021-03-15T12:18:59 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-15T12:19:03 < mawk> that's why they keep exploding maybe
2021-03-15T12:19:57 < Laurenceb> yeah tbh high altitude balloon telemetry is more pro than this
2021-03-15T12:21:16 < Laurenceb> weird how the lox is settled in the tank
2021-03-15T12:51:25 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/ju80c7.mp4
2021-03-15T12:53:31 < karlp> quality shitposting, I love it.
2021-03-15T12:53:45 < karlp> symbology is too niche for mortals like me of course.
2021-03-15T13:08:32 < zyp> working on a bootloader solution, made a tool to read and manipulate embedded metadata: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/7X450
2021-03-15T13:09:14 < zyp> can read both elfs and raw binary and write raw binary (and later some sort of bootloader image with header that gets checked and stripped by the part that's writing the image to flash)
2021-03-15T13:09:44 < karlp> didn't want to use any of the existing ones? :)
2021-03-15T13:09:54 < qyx> another one https://github.com/iqyx/ubload/blob/master/tools/createfw.py
2021-03-15T13:10:13 < qyx> with digital signatures and stuff
2021-03-15T13:12:30 < zyp> I'll handle signing/encryption in the container that goes around this
2021-03-15T13:13:19 < qyx> I wanted to have the metadata readable without decrypting the image
2021-03-15T13:14:24 < zyp> the stuff I'm poking at now is embedded metadata stored in the flash after the vector table, for use in deciding which out of two images to boot
2021-03-15T13:16:48 < zyp> debug flag skips validation so I'm setting that in the initial data I'm having the compiler emit so that a plain elf can be loaded through a debugger
2021-03-15T13:19:02 < zyp> I don't see a point checking the signature of the in-flash contents, an adversary able to get unsigned code into flash can probably bypass entire signature check anyway
2021-03-15T13:21:08 < jpa-> do you check the signature before writing to flash? do you have enough RAM to do that?
2021-03-15T13:22:39 < qyx> for some reason I concluded it is trivial to modify the flash, but not so trivial to modify the bootloader
2021-03-15T13:22:53 < qyx> but now I don't remember how did I manage to assure it
2021-03-15T13:23:17 < zyp> jpa-, I don't need to, there's no harm in writing an invalid image to flash as long as I don't run it
2021-03-15T13:23:42 < qyx> I was computing hash of the image on boot anyway, so I just verified it against the pubkey
2021-03-15T13:23:59 < jpa-> so, there is a way to get invalid stuff to flash, and you don't check signature in flash; now i just need to flip the bit that decides where you boot from?
2021-03-15T13:25:45 < zyp> how?
2021-03-15T13:26:47 < jpa-> depends on how the bit gets set in your loader; perhaps write a 0 length binary or mess up headers or something
2021-03-15T13:27:20 < jpa-> but your assumption "adversary able to get unsigned code into flash" does not seem very strong if you are perfectly willing to write untrusted stuff to flash :)
2021-03-15T13:29:12 < jpa-> even a simple "jump to untrusted location" becomes much more easy to exploit if one can get an untrusted binary to flash.. compared with flash having only signed contents and ram being no-execute
2021-03-15T13:30:22 < zyp> I mean, I was planning to sign the image header, that gets checked before writing even starts
2021-03-15T13:30:47 < zyp> PKI-encrypted and signed header containing an AES key or some shit, followed by AES-encrypted image
2021-03-15T13:31:24 < jpa-> so, copy a signed header from a valid image, use the AES key to encrypt modified image
2021-03-15T13:34:18 < zyp> where did you get AES key from? :)
2021-03-15T13:34:43 < zyp> but yeah, you just made me realize PKI is not all that useful
2021-03-15T13:35:15 < qyx> PKI is useful if you are able to keep the pubkey untouched
2021-03-15T13:35:22 < qyx> ie. if you are able to rely on it
2021-03-15T13:35:54 < zyp> I mean, for this stuff I figure IP theft is a larger problem than running unauthorized code
2021-03-15T13:36:41 < jpa-> zyp: isn't the AES key in the header?
2021-03-15T13:36:58 < jpa-> oh, it's encrypted also
2021-03-15T13:37:00 < zyp> jpa-, encrypted, obviously
2021-03-15T13:37:09 < jpa-> yeah, missed that
2021-03-15T13:37:25 < mawk> elf is a funny format
2021-03-15T13:37:34 < zyp> hmm
2021-03-15T13:37:40 < mawk> it's a relaxing exercise to make a elf parser
2021-03-15T13:38:29 < zyp> I'm just using pyelftools
2021-03-15T13:40:37 < zyp> jpa-, either way, it's a fairly easy problem to solve
2021-03-15T13:41:51 < qyx> use L5 with secureboot
2021-03-15T13:42:02 < qyx> or U5
2021-03-15T13:42:08 < qyx> or whatever it is
2021-03-15T13:42:09 < jpa-> yeah - to me it just seems that if running unauthorized code was a problem, checking signature at boot & checking any unsigned areas are empty would be useful
2021-03-15T13:43:50 < zyp> if the whole image is too big to check signatures on before writing, you could sign each page independently, check signature before writing the last part that makes it a valid image or even write the whole of it, check signature, then write some extra metadata somewhere else to identify it as a valid image
2021-03-15T13:44:53 < qyx> the check is o(1)
2021-03-15T13:45:37 < qyx> I mean, memory wise
2021-03-15T13:46:29 < jpa-> one common way to bypass code read protection is to get your readout code and a NOP sled to flash somehow, and then just glitch the VDD until it randomly jumps to the NOP area
2021-03-15T13:47:47 < zyp> how is a signature check gonna solve that if you can just glitch over the check?
2021-03-15T13:48:43 < jpa-> it's not - that's a point in favor of verifying signature before writing to flash
2021-03-15T13:49:07 < zyp> yeah, exactly
2021-03-15T13:49:45 < zyp> it's easy enough to just chunk it into manageable chunks and sign them individually
2021-03-15T13:50:45 < zyp> I mean, individually, but also chaining from the previous chunk so that modifying one breaks the whole chain
2021-03-15T13:50:47 < qyx> zyp: you don't want to verify whatever signature multiple times, theres no point, it takes flash space (crypto promitives) and it takes too much time
2021-03-15T13:51:03 < qyx> hashing the image as a whole before is a cheap operation
2021-03-15T13:51:14 < zyp> before what?
2021-03-15T13:51:37 < qyx> signing consists of computing a hash and applying a PKI on top of it
2021-03-15T13:51:45 < jpa-> i guess putting a bunch of block hashes to the signed header would be the most trivial way
2021-03-15T13:52:16 < qyx> some signature schemes don't allow arbitrary size of the signed content
2021-03-15T13:52:34 < qyx> you could hash the hashes and sign that one though
2021-03-15T13:52:45 < qyx> but again, theres no point in hashing blocks individually
2021-03-15T13:52:54 < zyp> sure it is
2021-03-15T13:52:58 < qyx> why?
2021-03-15T13:53:17 < jpa-> didn't we just previously discuss that there is a point, to avoid writing untrusted data to flash, which might simplify further exploits / glitching attacks
2021-03-15T13:53:22 < zyp> if you want to validate them before writing them to flash and you don't have enough ram to buffer the whole firmware
2021-03-15T13:54:24 < qyx> so you have to unpack and validate a list of hashes first then
2021-03-15T13:54:39 < jpa-> could easily be just a part of the firmware header
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2021-03-15T13:54:53 < zyp> another advantage of my architecture is that the whole security stuff is located in the upgradeable part
2021-03-15T13:55:04 < jpa-> which one would presumably check anyway, to see that it is for the correct device version etc.
2021-03-15T13:55:11 < qyx> the point is to avoid multiple pki verify steps
2021-03-15T13:55:28 < zyp> I'm doing a dual-bank setup with two equivalent firmware images that rewrites each other
2021-03-15T13:55:58 < zyp> putting the security at writing rather than booting means I don't have to deal with that in the small unupgradeable part responsible for selecting which image to run
2021-03-15T13:56:33 < jpa-> i'm a bit annoyed in how many of the newer STM32's do not have OTP area; it was a nice way to store serial number & hw revision without it getting over written in upgrades
2021-03-15T13:56:42 < zyp> (it's unupgradeable because you'll brick the device if you fuck up rewriting it)
2021-03-15T13:57:34 < jpa-> zyp: you're having a custom bootloader code selecting the image? instead of just using the option bytes?
2021-03-15T13:57:41 < zyp> yes
2021-03-15T13:57:54 < zyp> the option byte logic doesn't seem overly useful
2021-03-15T13:58:35 < zyp> so I'm putting an identical first page in both banks that'll be able to decide and swap
2021-03-15T13:58:59 < jpa-> when i did a similar dual bank OTA upgrade thing, i had the firmware upgrade procedure do a one-time boot to the new firmware, with the option bytes still set to the old firmware; and once it managed to contact the server, it sent a command to "set option bytes to boot from other bank"
2021-03-15T13:59:21 < jpa-> which had the assumption that if the firmware was functional enough to contact the server, it would manage to do a firmware upgrade also
2021-03-15T14:00:16 < qyx> how did you handle when it hadn't booted?
2021-03-15T14:01:48 < jpa-> qyx: watchdog would reset it and option bytes would cause it to boot to old firmware
2021-03-15T14:02:38 < qyx> so you set iwdg in the bootloader
2021-03-15T14:02:55 < zyp> IIRC iwdg can be enabled by option bytes
2021-03-15T14:03:20 < jpa-> it can
2021-03-15T14:05:10 < jpa-> though it did have a software "prescaler", i.e. routine that did  "if (timeout-- > 0) clear_iwdg();"  to handle the long timeout values (IIRC a few minutes for first contact after boot, then a few days between server contacts)
2021-03-15T14:07:06 < zyp> server contact is not a deciding factor in my case
2021-03-15T14:07:56 < jpa-> true IOT devices should stop working if server dies
2021-03-15T14:08:18 < zyp> I figure my way would be able to catch watchdog resets and fallback at any time, not just initial boot
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2021-03-15T16:21:13 < jadew> man... just looking at that poster makes my skin crawl https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14057586/reference?ref_=tt_mv_close
2021-03-15T16:24:10 < mawk> lol
2021-03-15T16:24:22 < mawk> awful
2021-03-15T16:26:01 < jadew> wouldn't have thought I'd be one of those people when I get old, but I underestimated the world's ability to surprise me with the idiocy it can create
2021-03-15T16:26:29 < jadew> so... here it is: this new generate is fucking retarded
2021-03-15T16:26:51 < jpa-> which one of those people are you? the one in the back with the camera?
2021-03-15T16:27:27 < qyx> will I regret?
2021-03-15T16:27:38 < mawk> no qyx it's sfw
2021-03-15T16:27:41 < jadew> jpa-, the one with the empty look on his face?
2021-03-15T16:27:52 < jpa-> qyx: not really, it's just a boring movie some people made when they were out of work
2021-03-15T16:28:02 < jpa-> jadew: yea
2021-03-15T16:28:20 < jpa-> "i don't want to be in this poster"
2021-03-15T16:28:34 < qyx> hm, not that bad at all
2021-03-15T16:28:44 < jadew> yeah, I don't think I'm in the poster, I feel like I'm the person they're looking at
2021-03-15T16:28:49 < jadew> with that smugness
2021-03-15T16:29:20 < jadew> like they're trying to tell me they're better than me, because they believe in equality and eathing the rich or some shit like that
2021-03-15T16:30:14 < mawk> or they're just badly drawn
2021-03-15T16:30:54 < jadew> you wouldn't draw them like that if you didn't want to signal "SJW virtues"
2021-03-15T16:31:10 < jadew> the colored hair...
2021-03-15T16:31:38 < jadew> I like colored hair, but they managed to ruin some of the colors
2021-03-15T16:31:59 < jadew> I'm now associating them with hysterical idiot
2021-03-15T16:32:07 < jpa-> poor jadew
2021-03-15T16:32:41 < jpa-> fortunately you can still stay in your bunker for a few more years
2021-03-15T16:32:45 < mawk> lol
2021-03-15T16:32:47 < jadew> haha
2021-03-15T16:33:10 < jadew> I'm ready to take them on man
2021-03-15T16:33:33 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRaGIHFLeUg
2021-03-15T16:33:35 < jadew> it seems like for the past year I've been debating neo marxists around the clock
2021-03-15T16:33:44 < aandrew> lol why
2021-03-15T16:34:22 < jadew> aandrew, asking me?
2021-03-15T16:34:53 < aandrew> yep why debate neo marxists, it's not like you'll change their mind and they have little of use to learn from
2021-03-15T16:35:20 < jadew> if yes, it's because I enjoy debating and they're the ones who put forth the worst ideas
2021-03-15T16:35:31 < jadew> so there's something to talk about...
2021-03-15T16:36:05 < aandrew> there are so many other interesting things to talk about though
2021-03-15T16:38:26 < karlp> like, how easy it would be to build a temperature logger.
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2021-03-15T16:38:52 < jadew> but I already had that discussion
2021-03-15T16:38:58  * karlp laughs
2021-03-15T16:39:00 < jadew> :P
2021-03-15T16:41:42  * karlp deletes 80G of junk and make his ssd feel a little les crramped....
2021-03-15T16:42:15 < jadew> who downloads porn anymore?
2021-03-15T16:42:34 < karlp> none of this was porn.
2021-03-15T16:42:47 < jadew> you're holding on to that, eh?
2021-03-15T16:42:54 < qyx> do you want a temperature logger?
2021-03-15T16:42:57 < karlp> old vm images, old isos and extracted versiosn of the same, outdated buildroots, debug build dirs of tooling
2021-03-15T16:43:15 < qyx> I'll sell you a LoRaWAN one with a precise, GNSS-synced temperature readings
2021-03-15T16:43:27 < jadew> for me, most of the space goes into a temp folder
2021-03-15T16:43:38 < jadew> I tend to put everything there
2021-03-15T16:43:51 < qyx> same here
2021-03-15T16:44:05 < qyx> *everything I may delete anytime
2021-03-15T16:44:09 < jadew> yeah
2021-03-15T16:44:30 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WGmYs.png
2021-03-15T16:45:03 < jadew> what do the colors represent?
2021-03-15T16:45:15 < jadew> and the circles
2021-03-15T16:46:03 < karlp> biggest in each directory level I believe
2021-03-15T16:46:18 < jadew> interesting
2021-03-15T16:47:21 < qyx> such fancy du -sh | sort -h
2021-03-15T16:48:02 < jadew> it's pretty cool if it can give you an idea on how fragmented the data is
2021-03-15T16:48:30 < karlp> winkey, "disk" "(click the disk usage button)"
2021-03-15T16:49:53 < jadew> looks like windows has one of those circles too
2021-03-15T16:50:07 < karlp> this has been in gnome since 3.0 or something, ti's barely changed.
2021-03-15T16:50:08 < jadew> https://imgur.com/a/l6SODcs
2021-03-15T16:50:25 < jadew> not as many layers tho :)
2021-03-15T16:50:54 < qyx> :D
2021-03-15T16:51:17 < jadew> too bad they didn't start from the other side
2021-03-15T16:51:31 < jadew> if I freed a little space it would seem like it's a cooler C for c:
2021-03-15T16:53:48 < jadew> wasn't there some persistent RAM technology being advertised a few years ago?
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2021-03-15T16:59:31 < jadew> I found this, but I'm not sure this is it: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/memory-storage/optane-persistent-memory/optane-dc-persistent-memory-brief.html
2021-03-15T17:00:07 < karlp> do you just mean plain reram?
2021-03-15T17:00:16 < jadew> what's reram?
2021-03-15T17:00:52 < effractur> yea optane
2021-03-15T17:01:21 < qyx> the dutch sounds really funny
2021-03-15T17:01:24 < jadew> so what exactly is that, I can't see any specs or comparisons
2021-03-15T17:01:33 < effractur> but that is 3d xpoint
2021-03-15T17:01:49 < effractur> as in that is the technology
2021-03-15T17:02:14 < effractur> reram afaik 
2021-03-15T17:12:54 < skz81> <karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/WGmYs.png >> that looks a bit like 'filelight' (about the same util but comes with KDE)
2021-03-15T17:14:43 < karlp> skz81: desktop convergance....
2021-03-15T17:15:32 < karlp> heh, were looking at some fets earlier, "500k stock, no problem"
2021-03-15T17:15:39 < karlp> already down to 470k...
2021-03-15T17:15:45 < karlp> someone was shopping this morning...
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2021-03-15T17:33:06 < jadew> are discrete components at risk of going out of stock too?
2021-03-15T17:33:21 < jadew> or just complex ICs?
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2021-03-15T17:38:17 < karlp> no idea, we were just talkign abotu which part we'd been looking at across the room, and he waslike, "none of these have 500k in stock..."
2021-03-15T17:38:33 < karlp> so 2n7002 has variants with Vgs of 20V, and also with 30V.
2021-03-15T17:38:53 < karlp> I think we'll use something else that's only 30V so no-one does anything dumb with a part substitution.
2021-03-15T17:39:21 < qyx> bss123
2021-03-15T17:39:50 < karlp> nah, that's only 20V too.
2021-03-15T17:39:57 < karlp> want to use 24V on the gate...
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2021-03-15T17:40:03 < qyx> oh you said Vgs
2021-03-15T17:40:12 < qyx> I§ve read Vds
2021-03-15T17:40:25 < karlp> it's ok, ntr5103, and dmn67 are both super cheap too.
2021-03-15T17:40:49 < qyx> hm I wouldn't risk 24 V on a 30 V gate
2021-03-15T17:40:59 < qyx> even if transient-free
2021-03-15T17:41:30 < karlp> well, we're expecting 0..5, 0..10 and 0..12, and 24 would be nice if it works too.
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2021-03-15T17:42:49 < karlp> heh, there's a 2n7002 in 40v too. of course there is..
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2021-03-15T18:05:40 < LoneElf> Hey folks. When I use SPI with DMA, and set it to circular continuous, I'm noticing that the transfer never really seems to get ended. The chip select drops, and the clock starts, but then the clock just goes forever. Anybody know why this is? Is there a way to make it actually complete the transfer with DMA+circular?
2021-03-15T18:06:33 < zyp> no?
2021-03-15T18:06:40 < karlp> you asked for continuoius, you got it?
2021-03-15T18:06:43 < zyp> the whole point of continous is that it doesn't end
2021-03-15T18:12:47 < LoneElf> Hah. Darn. I was thinking that this could perhaps be the answer.
2021-03-15T18:13:07 < karlp> what are you actually trying to do?
2021-03-15T18:13:20 < karlp> circular and continuous are not the same for instance...
2021-03-15T18:14:33 < LoneElf> So I have an SPI device that I need to sample at high frequency. I was hoping I could just do it continuously with DMA. Ideally a new transfer would start as soon as the old one completed, and if I wanted the latest result from the device, I would just do a memory read.
2021-03-15T18:14:57 < LoneElf> Ideally, I could insert a time delay between when the old transfer ended and the new one began as well.
2021-03-15T18:16:27 < karlp> so "continuous" and "complete" are at odds with each other...
2021-03-15T18:16:44 < karlp> do you really want to use timer triggered, circular?
2021-03-15T18:17:22 < LoneElf> Yeah, timer triggered would be much nicer, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get the timer to trigger a DMA transfer.
2021-03-15T18:17:37 < karlp> there's a table of which triggers connect where.
2021-03-15T18:19:19 < LoneElf> So I see a section for ADC triggers and DAC triggers in the HRTIM documentation, I'm not seeing DMA trigger?
2021-03-15T18:20:32 < karlp> so I use adc->dma circular, timer triggered,
2021-03-15T18:20:35 < karlp> and it's         adc_enable_external_trigger_regular(ADC1, ADC_CR2_EXTSEL_TIM6_TRGO, ADC_CR2_EXTEN_RISING_EDGE);
2021-03-15T18:20:54 < karlp> with         timer_set_master_mode(timer, TIM_CR2_MMS_UPDATE);
2021-03-15T18:21:01 < karlp> and         dma_enable_circular_mode(DMA1, DMA_CHANNEL1);
2021-03-15T18:21:22 < karlp> you trigger adc with timer, adc generates the right things so that dma engine just does it's things
2021-03-15T18:21:43 < LoneElf> This is using opencm3?
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2021-03-15T18:27:52 < karlp> that is, yeah, but concepts ar esame.
2021-03-15T18:28:03 < LoneElf> Actually, I'm using the timer to generate ADC triggers presently, that all works well. Seems like getting the timer to generate DMA requests is a bit different?
2021-03-15T18:28:08 < karlp> that TRGO thing is from a table, you choose which timer/adc whatever.
2021-03-15T18:28:10 < karlp> the timer doesn't.
2021-03-15T18:28:13 < karlp> the adc does.
2021-03-15T18:28:24 < karlp> timer triggers adc, adc lets dma know when results are available.
2021-03-15T18:28:28 < karlp> dma just moves it.
2021-03-15T18:28:37 < karlp>         ADC_CR2(ADC1) |= ADC_CR2_DDS;
2021-03-15T18:28:43 < karlp> and         adc_enable_dma(ADC1);
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2021-03-15T18:30:30 < LoneElf> I'm not sampling an ADC though, but instead a SPI sensor.
2021-03-15T18:32:38 < aandrew> LoneElf: same idea - you trigger the one-off spi dma from the timer expiration
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2021-03-15T19:04:07 < karlp> anyone used ngspice/kicad spice to model switching power in a fet?
2021-03-15T19:05:42 < aandrew> not me, sorry
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2021-03-15T19:22:46 < Laurenceb> I intend to, but not yet
2021-03-15T19:23:02 < Laurenceb> octave 6 rendering is breaking :(
2021-03-15T19:24:10 < Laurenceb> surface with a mesh doesnt handle visibility correctly 
2021-03-15T19:28:39 < machinehum> jpa-: Thanks
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2021-03-15T19:37:35 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/821074391349461072/unknown.png With this in mind, Can anyone figure out what T I C and D stand for? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/821030109674602496/IMG_20210315_143948.jpg
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2021-03-15T19:47:23 < aandrew> T = temp  (threshold?), C/D guessing clk/data
2021-03-15T19:47:47 < fenugrec> I current sense ?
2021-03-15T19:49:29 < Mangy_Dog> well on the plug sgl6 gets pulled to ground
2021-03-15T19:49:37 < Mangy_Dog> so i suspect its a battery side "its connected" thing
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2021-03-15T20:41:08 < machinehum> Are most DDR3 ram's pin/pin? If I design around a Winbond part will this work with a Micron part?
2021-03-15T20:42:02 < zyp> they should have standardized footprints, yes
2021-03-15T20:42:03 < machinehum> More of a high level question, I'm just wondering if I should fuss about ram supply or just use whatever's available in the future
2021-03-15T20:42:20 < machinehum> zyp: Thanks, and the pinout is the same
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2021-03-15T21:10:50 < ventyl> got question: what can cause (on pretty much out of box Cortex-M4), that pend_sv_handler which is apparently properly requested, won't execute at all?
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2021-03-15T21:23:21 < tct> test
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2021-03-15T21:26:17 < Steffanx> test failed, tct 
2021-03-15T21:26:36 < tct> buuuh :(
2021-03-15T21:26:46 < Steffanx> Hows tctland?
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2021-03-15T21:33:04 < Laurenceb> keeeek
2021-03-15T21:33:38 < Laurenceb> >radfems are calling for self defence firearms to be legalised in uk
2021-03-15T21:34:12 < Laurenceb> ywlts radfems shooting the patrarchy into trenches
2021-03-15T21:34:50 < Laurenceb> what a time to be alive
2021-03-15T21:35:25 < Steffanx> IS ywlts SOME made up thing by blaxter?
2021-03-15T21:35:28 < Laurenceb> >britbong NRA formed, its radfem
2021-03-15T21:35:36 < Laurenceb> nope 
2021-03-15T21:36:09 < englishman> funny considering the state of firearms law and authoritarianism in the UK
2021-03-15T21:37:05 < Laurenceb> >firearms law
2021-03-15T21:37:24 < Laurenceb> there was a guy on my street literally mass producing uzis in his back garden
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2021-03-15T21:37:54 < Laurenceb> but then again, that was when I lived in Shottingham
2021-03-15T21:38:10 -!- antto [~pewpew@antonsavov.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-15T21:38:11 < Laurenceb> drive-by capital of britain
2021-03-15T21:38:22 -!- ThatDamnRanga [~ThatDamnR@unaffiliated/wiretap] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-15T21:38:42 < Laurenceb> keekk oh wow
2021-03-15T21:39:14 < Laurenceb> >only women should be permitted to concealed carry
2021-03-15T21:42:03 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2021-03-15T21:42:05 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2021/3/15/1f57eb56-ea33-41a6-8207-c48434eca464.png
2021-03-15T21:42:11 < Laurenceb> conductor we have a problem
2021-03-15T21:45:17 < Laurenceb> when ur narrative is utterly btfo'd in one graph
2021-03-15T21:46:21 -!- Jybz [~jibz@2a01:e0a:a13:5d70:4a51:b7ff:fe84:99e6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
2021-03-15T21:46:47 < Steffanx> ever considered trying a new hobby Laurenceb ?
2021-03-15T21:47:04 < Laurenceb> yeah I should be a twitter troll and join the media
2021-03-15T21:47:14 < Steffanx> one that is actually interesting
2021-03-15T21:47:21 < Laurenceb> or shitposting blogger or something
2021-03-15T21:47:58 < Laurenceb> good that the radfems are btfoing the police and public order acts tho
2021-03-15T21:48:06 < Laurenceb> cuz fuck that orwellian shit
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2021-03-15T21:56:10 < tct> you already are a shitposter
2021-03-15T21:56:16 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-03-15T21:57:33 < Laurenceb> this shit is crazier than Qanon
2021-03-15T22:04:39 < dima> Laurenceb: what about men who identify as women, should they be allowed to carry guns?
2021-03-15T22:05:20 < Laurenceb> keeek this could get interesting
2021-03-15T22:06:34 < ventyl> since brexit even time runs faster in the UK :)
2021-03-15T22:07:06 < ventyl> that graph above has some time contration on X axis\
2021-03-15T22:16:30 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/a/FYbOOwb   epin troll edit
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2021-03-15T22:32:44 < qyx> any ideas on how to recognise whether a SWD debug cable is connected?
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2021-03-15T22:34:06 < invzim> like for protection/anti-tamper?
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2021-03-15T22:34:53 < qyx> no, to enable/disable debugging features on boot
2021-03-15T22:35:15 < qyx> besides that, I am using swdio/swclk pins for LEDs too
2021-03-15T22:35:26 < qyx> so I need to reconfigure them as outputs
2021-03-15T22:36:09 < invzim> I got this in a bootloader, I don't remember the details
2021-03-15T22:36:16 < invzim>  if (CoreDebug->DHCSR & CoreDebug_DHCSR_C_DEBUGEN_Msk)
2021-03-15T22:37:34 < invzim> but google may point you in the right direction
2021-03-15T22:37:39 < qyx> oh thanks
2021-03-15T22:41:59 < Steffanx> Yeah that will work. I used it a few times to enable semihosting when the debugger was connected
2021-03-15T22:42:22 < Steffanx> before i got my jlink clone and used rtt
2021-03-15T22:43:13 < qyx> how does the thing know?
2021-03-15T22:44:11 < ventyl> *magic*
2021-03-15T22:45:24 < PaulFertser> rtt is now supported with all debug adapters in OpenOCD
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2021-03-15T23:24:59 < Laurenceb> looks like potential radfem capitol riot in uk 
2021-03-15T23:26:30 < ventyl> 0
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2021-03-15T23:38:35 < Steffanx> But this was ages ago, PaulFertser 
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2021-03-15T23:39:26 < qyx> hah Steffanx, no worky
2021-03-15T23:39:49 < Steffanx> Poor you
2021-03-15T23:39:54 < qyx> it doesn't detect inactive debugger
2021-03-15T23:40:07 < Steffanx> Oh, I wasn't interested in that
2021-03-15T23:40:16 < qyx> now the question is how much active it should be
2021-03-15T23:40:24 < qyx> and how long do I have to wait
2021-03-15T23:42:28 < qyx> looks like it is buggy
2021-03-15T23:42:33 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sWBoQ
2021-03-15T23:43:05 < englishman> lol
2021-03-15T23:51:26 < Steffanx> A sweet lord bug (that's what they're call in dutch)
2021-03-15T23:54:12 < Laurenceb> we do it differently but kind of the same in uk, we have nra and capitol riot, but with radfems
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2021-03-15T23:59:57 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/vxDCl.png
--- Day changed Tue Mar 16 2021
2021-03-16T00:02:07 < zyp> fpgas makes stuff easy
2021-03-16T00:02:12 < qyx> whats that
2021-03-16T00:02:20 < qyx> dual qspi?
2021-03-16T00:02:50 < zyp> I'm doing an orbtrace board, i.e. debug and trace adapter
2021-03-16T00:02:57 < zyp> qspi flash and hyperram
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2021-03-16T00:04:38 < qyx> hyperram is in BGA24 too?
2021-03-16T00:04:55 < zyp> flash on the left, hyperram on the right, hence the larger number of signals
2021-03-16T00:04:57 < qyx> why didn't you use hyperflash too?
2021-03-16T00:05:17 < qyx> there are even combined flash + dram parts
2021-03-16T00:05:20 < zyp> because the fpga doesn't talk hyperbus when loading the bitstream
2021-03-16T00:05:27 < qyx> oh, legit
2021-03-16T00:05:43 < Laurenceb> whut even is hyperram?
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2021-03-16T00:05:58 < qyx> dram in octospi like protocol
2021-03-16T00:05:59 < zyp> Laurenceb, similar to octospi
2021-03-16T00:06:37 < Laurenceb> oh ok
2021-03-16T00:06:50 < Laurenceb> seems crazy but I guess octo spi is pretty fast
2021-03-16T00:07:52 < zyp> up to 200 MHz DDR, so 400 MB/s
2021-03-16T00:09:38 < zyp> the soft-cpu in the fpga is probably not gonna run over 100 MHz, so the hyperbus is probably not gonna be the bottleneck
2021-03-16T00:10:05 < qyx> eminds me, has anyone ever used M1?
2021-03-16T00:10:34 < qyx> hm, the bug has left
2021-03-16T00:10:38 < qyx> now everything works
2021-03-16T00:10:46 < qyx> damn
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2021-03-16T00:14:56 < zyp> I've currently got this setup on my desk: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MLEHN.jpg
2021-03-16T00:14:58 < zyp> pretty neat stuff
2021-03-16T00:15:04 < invzim> zyp: which fpga is it?
2021-03-16T00:15:09 < zyp> ecp5
2021-03-16T00:15:55 < invzim> and the 90s called, they want their scope back :)
2021-03-16T00:16:07 < zyp> buy me a newer one :)
2021-03-16T00:16:46 < invzim> is it the 1052e?
2021-03-16T00:16:52 < zyp> no, older
2021-03-16T00:17:00 < zyp> 1042c
2021-03-16T00:17:26 < zyp> I've had it for almost 13 years now
2021-03-16T00:17:27 < invzim> I got the mso5074, would not buy again
2021-03-16T00:17:32 < zyp> oh?
2021-03-16T00:17:43 < invzim> the ui is really sluggish
2021-03-16T00:18:09 < invzim> like second+ resonse time
2021-03-16T00:18:15 < zyp> I've been eyeing those, but I can't really justify a new scope
2021-03-16T00:18:49 < invzim> and for some reason I can't do pulse trigger on channel 1&3 consistently
2021-03-16T00:18:49 < zyp> and I probably have access to some decent ones at $newjob now
2021-03-16T00:19:24 < zyp> there's a bunch of scopes around but I haven't looked into which
2021-03-16T00:20:30 < invzim> which field is $newjob in, oil/geo?
2021-03-16T00:21:24 < zyp> embedded stuff in general
2021-03-16T00:25:15 < Bluecoat> Can the ST-Link connect to a running STM32 and peek/poke registers without resetting it?
2021-03-16T00:25:33 < zyp> it should
2021-03-16T00:26:12 < Bluecoat> zyp: I am having the damndest time trying to figure out how through their IDE.  It keeps wanting to compile a project and load it rather than the raw attach I need.
2021-03-16T00:27:25 < ventyl> connect to it using openocd / gdb
2021-03-16T00:27:37 < ventyl> and throw any vendor IDE into recycle bin
2021-03-16T00:28:05 < Bluecoat> ventyl: A'yup.  Haven't used openocd yet, though, so this won't be the quick experiment I was hoping for.
2021-03-16T00:28:52 < ventyl> you may have it running in like 10 minutes, based on how flexible you are
2021-03-16T00:34:52 < Bluecoat> ventyl: 6 minutes! :-D
2021-03-16T00:35:21 < ventyl> quite a flexible
2021-03-16T00:37:01 < mawk> unless the target is in deep sleep or something
2021-03-16T00:37:10 < mawk> then I think you have some bits to change in the program to allow debugging
2021-03-16T00:37:14 < mawk> or just disable deep sleep
2021-03-16T00:38:49 < Bluecoat> hm.  Well it connects but it's pulling reset still.
2021-03-16T00:39:13 < mawk> what's your openocd command?
2021-03-16T00:39:22 < mawk> if you don't tell it to reset, it won't
2021-03-16T00:39:24 < mawk> as far as I know
2021-03-16T00:39:48 < Bluecoat> mawk: I'm sourcing the script that the IDE pooped out.  I'll try commenting out the reset lines.
2021-03-16T00:40:06 < mawk> you shouldn't need a script
2021-03-16T00:40:10 < mawk> openocd has all you need already
2021-03-16T00:40:14 < mawk> unless you have a custom board
2021-03-16T00:40:32 < Bluecoat> mawk: I have a custom board.
2021-03-16T00:40:59 < mawk> well even a custom should be supported out of the box I mean
2021-03-16T00:41:05 < mawk> if your chip is supported by openocd
2021-03-16T00:41:22 < mawk> which stm32 is it?
2021-03-16T00:41:35 < Bluecoat> F4.
2021-03-16T00:41:48 < mawk> st link v2?
2021-03-16T00:41:55 < Bluecoat> yep, brand name.
2021-03-16T00:42:33 < Bluecoat> so now openocd connects without resetting.  It halts as soon as GDB connects but GDB doesn't think the program is running so I can't resume it.
2021-03-16T00:42:49 < mawk> openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f4x.cfg
2021-03-16T00:42:54 < mawk> this command should be enough
2021-03-16T00:43:21 < mawk> it shouldn't halt as soon as you connect I think
2021-03-16T00:43:51 < LoneElf> I seem to be having a problem getting HRTIM1_Master_IRQHandler() to be called. Anybody have any idea why this may be? I'm calling HAL_NVIC_EnableIRQ(HRTIM1_Master_IRQn), and I've tried many variations of the InterruptRequests param. Also, I'm starting everything with HAL_HRTIM_WaveformCountStart_IT.
2021-03-16T00:45:32 < Bluecoat> mawk: hm.  connect failed, "consider setting up gdb-attach event or use gdb_memory_map disable."  Tried passing that in as a command, and it just shows gdb attach / detach when i try to connect.
2021-03-16T00:45:55 < mawk> what gdb command did you use?
2021-03-16T00:46:05 < Bluecoat> target extended-remote localhost:3333
2021-03-16T00:46:14 < mawk> and you gave the right file to gdb?
2021-03-16T00:46:26 < mawk> maybe PaulFertser knows
2021-03-16T00:47:11 < Bluecoat> mawk: I didn't pass any file to gdb.  I was wanting to connect, poke to a couple registers, and disconnect.
2021-03-16T00:47:36 < mawk> you need to tell gdb which elf you're debugging
2021-03-16T00:47:45 < mawk> gdb -q path/to/the/program.elf
2021-03-16T00:47:55 < mawk> well you don't have to, strictly speaking
2021-03-16T00:47:58 < Bluecoat> mawk: I thought there was a way to blindly connect?
2021-03-16T00:48:03 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-16T00:48:13 < ventyl> there is, but then gdb won't be able to interpret what it sees
2021-03-16T00:49:04 < Bluecoat> ventyl: I don't need it to interpret anything.  I'm trying to override how our firmware dude that doesn't believe in source control programmed something without waiting for him to wake up.
2021-03-16T00:49:20 < ventyl> well
2021-03-16T00:49:29 < Bluecoat> (yes, this is all less than ideal. :))
2021-03-16T00:49:39 < ventyl> i've been in such situation already
2021-03-16T00:50:03 < Bluecoat> ventyl: "Oh...  *THIS* is the Bad Place!"
2021-03-16T00:50:31 < ventyl> I left at first opportunity to do so
2021-03-16T00:51:53 < Bluecoat> Oh sweet, I may have just solved this problem from the other end.
2021-03-16T00:53:32 < Bluecoat> "It will take me a week of firmware development to capture this data and will impact other deliverables.  Are you sure you really need it?" 
2021-03-16T00:58:43 < mawk> can you paste the full gdb log and openocd log Bluecoat ?
2021-03-16T01:00:18 < Bluecoat> mawk: https://pastebin.com/BC6J7bLi
2021-03-16T01:01:10 < Bluecoat> mawk: But no worries if it's non-obvious.  I'm off the hook for the deliverable and I suspect most of my troubles fall into the "Well what didja expect if you weren't gonna take the time to RTFM?" :)
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2021-03-16T01:02:38 < mawk> the openocd command was just: openocd -f interface/stlink.cfg -f target/stm32f4x.cfg
2021-03-16T01:02:41 < mawk> and the gdb was just: gdb
2021-03-16T01:02:42 < mawk> ?
2021-03-16T01:02:57 < mawk> uh well first: 
2021-03-16T01:02:58 < mawk> Warn : Cannot identify target as a STM32 family.
2021-03-16T01:03:00 < mawk> Error: auto_probe failed
2021-03-16T01:03:13 < mawk> maybe you have to work from your ide openocd script
2021-03-16T01:03:19 < mawk> but then remove all the reset statements
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2021-03-16T04:33:16 < aandrew> huh so on stm32l0 there is no PA0 wake up anymore, it's now all EXTI and anything can wake it from deep sleep?
2021-03-16T04:53:34 < machinehum> Anyone know a good spot to Chinese microprocessors? Specifically Allwinner A33
2021-03-16T04:57:25 < qyx> aandrew: at least from stop 0/1/2, yes
2021-03-16T04:57:59 < qyx> I can wake my L4 from stop mode using ordinary USART
2021-03-16T04:58:06 < qyx> (despite LPUART being present)
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2021-03-16T05:08:58 < aandrew> qyx: ok
2021-03-16T05:09:00 < aandrew> thanks
2021-03-16T05:09:23 < aandrew> should I be pulling swdck/swdio anywhere?
2021-03-16T05:09:28 < aandrew> or are the internal pulls good enough
2021-03-16T05:52:30 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a suggestion where you can source 100 or 50pcs of SG90 servos? :)
2021-03-16T05:52:45 < ColdKeyboard> AliExpress and Bangood come to mind but I'm wondering if there is a better place for this
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2021-03-16T08:34:41 < jadew> chima battery powered spot welder: https://youtu.be/TI_ZV-5WHi4?t=608
2021-03-16T08:34:48 < jadew> (USB chargeable)
2021-03-16T08:38:27 < jadew> steel price is at an all-time high :/
2021-03-16T08:40:00 < jadew> wanted to get more of my SMA assemblies manufactured and got a quote almost 3x higher than the last one (for higher qty)
2021-03-16T08:41:39 < jpa-> uh, how huge are they if the cost of steel affects the price much?
2021-03-16T08:41:44 < jpa-> maybe your manufacturer is just busy
2021-03-16T08:42:00 < jadew> jpa-, it could be, they blamed it on the material cost
2021-03-16T08:42:17 < jpa-> so would i :)
2021-03-16T08:42:19 < jadew> I guess I'll have to find other shops
2021-03-16T08:42:49 < jpa-> considering steel price has risen something like 50-100%, i doubt one can blame a 3x price hike on a finished part on it
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2021-03-16T12:07:29 < karlp> what's undeer the beagle on your desk?
2021-03-16T12:11:10 < karlp> Bluecoat: maybe rebuildyoru openocd or move to 0.11?
2021-03-16T12:18:23 < zyp> karlp, the seeed computer
2021-03-16T12:19:05 < zyp> this thing: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/buFD4.jpg
2021-03-16T12:19:54 < zyp> digikey had the enclosure in stock last I got some other stuff, so I grabbed one and an extender to make room for the heatsink on that fpga board
2021-03-16T12:28:00 < karlp> jadew: interesting spot welder video thanks
2021-03-16T12:28:09 < ventyl_> >25% of open job positions in my city are SW developer jobs
2021-03-16T12:28:28 < karlp> zyp: oh, that oddly priced oddyseey or something?
2021-03-16T12:28:33 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-16T12:28:48 < karlp> what was the appeal again? x86, but super cheap and reasoably specced?
2021-03-16T12:29:05 < karlp> with your mining surplus fpga borad there on it too...
2021-03-16T12:29:18 < zyp> well, I originally bought it because I needed something with an m.2 M-key slot for that fpga board
2021-03-16T12:29:41 < zyp> using it as a general testbed for stuff now
2021-03-16T12:30:39 < zyp> in this case because it's nice to have an otherwise idle usb bus when capturing HS
2021-03-16T12:31:36 < zyp> don't have any spare idle buses on the workstation, and the capture buffer fills up too fast with uninteresting crap otherwise
2021-03-16T12:32:45 < zyp> with FS you only get unrelated activity from other devices on the same TT on a STT hub
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2021-03-16T12:35:54 < karlp> yeah, hs is a whole new world.
2021-03-16T12:40:08 < karlp> https://www.dexma.com/blog-en/10-conclusions-of-the-study-on-european-energy-consumption-in-europe-before-and-after-covid-19/
2021-03-16T12:40:58 < Laurenceb> interesting
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2021-03-16T15:47:38 < tct> Steffanx, ping
2021-03-16T15:55:28 < jpa-> Steffanx: wake up, tct has run out of stroopwaffels
2021-03-16T15:55:49 < tct> yeah, indeed.
2021-03-16T16:01:26 < karlp> man, silabs dev bord "advanced energy monitor" is neat, but expensive parts, definitely losing out on these boards...
2021-03-16T16:02:32 < karlp> $8 just for two of the ics used there, just in the current sense section, in 10k units.
2021-03-16T16:02:57 < karlp> and the whole kit with two target boards and all the high density connects, lcd, ethernet, jlink, switches and shit is only $50
2021-03-16T16:15:08 < Steffanx> Pong tct
2021-03-16T16:15:30 < tct> Steffanx, what's up with the adobe trademark link in the topic?
2021-03-16T16:15:51 < karlp> fucking 10gig of stm32cube repository
2021-03-16T16:16:06 < karlp> I wonder if I can just fucking nuke all that and let it redownload what it wants.
2021-03-16T16:17:48 < englishman> yes
2021-03-16T16:17:55 < karlp> invzim: sad to hear that about the mso5074, I was considering buying the 5104, 
2021-03-16T16:18:08 < karlp> second+ sounds horrrrible how could they be popular with that sort of performance
2021-03-16T16:18:37 < englishman> idk, if you think riglol is slow wait til you try a KEYSIGHT
2021-03-16T16:18:56 < Steffanx> You have to ask englishman for that tct
2021-03-16T16:19:07 < Steffanx> He asked me to do it, I listened
2021-03-16T16:19:14 < jpa-> DS1054Z does not seem to have such huge delays for most stuff, though it does have some weird things like vertical position of trace is not updated until you stop rotating the knob
2021-03-16T16:20:46 < englishman> tct>	Steffanx, what's up with the Adobe® Photoshop® software trademark link in the topic?
2021-03-16T16:20:47 < englishman> ^ fixed
2021-03-16T16:21:00 < karlp> teh ds1000e we've got at work (old one like zyps) will occasioanlly just say "hold on" when you push buttons.
2021-03-16T16:21:07 < tct> englishman, what happened? :D
2021-03-16T16:21:25 < karlp> honestly, I just feel it's shitty for small signals, shitty triggering, no scroll back/forth for anything fine, really loud.
2021-03-16T16:21:29  * karlp shrugs
2021-03-16T16:21:40 < karlp> would like to try some nice ones, but no dealers here...
2021-03-16T16:21:54 < englishman> i like this mso8204
2021-03-16T16:21:57 < englishman> bunch of cool triggers
2021-03-16T16:22:00 < englishman> great web interface
2021-03-16T16:22:08 < englishman> even came with two 1.5g single ended probes
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2021-03-16T16:22:50 < ventYl> hm, I was pretty happy with keysight
2021-03-16T16:23:05 < ventYl> but given the situation, I was happy that I had any usable scope available
2021-03-16T16:23:13 < englishman> the funcgen unlock for a keydong costs like 3x what an actual funcgen costs
2021-03-16T16:23:48 < englishman> so i got a riglol with funcgen built in for the ~same price
2021-03-16T16:23:55 < ventYl> yeah, I am pretty much basic user
2021-03-16T16:24:49 < karlp> englishman: so.. how's interface response speed on teh 8k series then?
2021-03-16T16:25:02 < karlp> that's more than I was thinking, but I'm a big boi, maybe I can spend something one day. buy it once...
2021-03-16T16:25:52 < karlp> nv, forget I said that.
2021-03-16T16:25:55 < karlp> 8k is way out of range.
2021-03-16T16:26:52 < englishman> it's fine. maybe switch to tea instead of coffee
2021-03-16T16:27:02 < karlp> hehe
2021-03-16T16:27:17 < karlp> 5104 is liek 1k€, reasonable.
2021-03-16T16:27:25 < karlp> unlol it, 
2021-03-16T16:27:28 < tct> englishman, did you have beef with adobe?
2021-03-16T16:27:45 < englishman> 2 GHz is kind of that middle of the range where you can do RGMII and anything on a FPGA, but not the faster LVDS stuff
2021-03-16T16:28:04 < englishman> tct, on the contrary, I expect their wishes to be respected
2021-03-16T16:28:19 < karlp> siglent sds1104x-e is my other option.
2021-03-16T16:28:57 < karlp> I can probably still do ~everythign with 100Mhz, 200Mhz is nice, but I'm not doing gige or usb3 or anythign dumb unless work would be paying
2021-03-16T16:29:01 < karlp> this is for home.
2021-03-16T16:29:12 < englishman> definitely the riglol'd 1k one then
2021-03-16T16:29:47 < karlp> just the ds1100 shit? not the mso5k?
2021-03-16T16:29:53 < englishman> no, the mso5k
2021-03-16T16:30:20 < karlp> right.
2021-03-16T16:30:26 < karlp> except inzvim hates it .)
2021-03-16T16:30:58 < englishman> next step up is the $5k keysight that sucks dick and has no features unless you pay for unlocks, i guess
2021-03-16T16:32:15 < karlp> yeah, the mso5k seems like a lot of bang for the buck.
2021-03-16T16:34:00 < karlp> now, just need a work trip to "come home with it" and avoid vat....
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2021-03-16T16:35:09 < karlp> heh, 5 revisions of L1 cube firmeware, ~150MB.
2021-03-16T16:35:17 < karlp> 1 revision of l4: 750MB
2021-03-16T16:35:37 < Steffanx> I guess its some inside joke by englishman, tct
2021-03-16T16:35:59 < zoobab> trying to convert a project from Keil to Makefiles+gcc
2021-03-16T16:36:02 < zoobab> https://github.com/zoobab/STM32F103C8T6_CMSIS-DAP_SWO
2021-03-16T16:36:15 < zoobab> but there is some binary lib
2021-03-16T16:37:42 < zoobab> https://github.com/RadioOperator/STM32F103C8T6_CMSIS-DAP_SWO/tree/master/USB
2021-03-16T16:37:44 < zoobab> USB_CM3.lib
2021-03-16T16:38:09 < zoobab> any idea if this is proprietary to Keil, or it's a binary version of an open source code?
2021-03-16T16:40:10 < jpa-> https://www.keil.com/support/man/docs/rlarm/rlarm_lib_files.htm  lists it as part of their RL-ARM library
2021-03-16T16:41:09 < karlp> I thought there was another cmsis-dap fw for f103's that was already open source?
2021-03-16T16:42:17 < zoobab> there is a new one by ARM
2021-03-16T16:42:49 < zoobab> and they have release a .bin firmware 
2021-03-16T16:42:53 < zoobab> still have to try it
2021-03-16T16:47:55 < fenugrec> "if you think riglol is slow" - try a TDS7xxA . Teaches one patience
2021-03-16T16:49:58 < fenugrec> but, 4chan 500MHz 2GS/s for <1k
2021-03-16T16:52:14 < tct> I found dealing with people to be the most efficient way of learning to have patience
2021-03-16T16:52:44 < fenugrec> but you need access to people for that
2021-03-16T16:53:05 < tct> just /query Laurenceb
2021-03-16T16:54:56 < mawk> Laurenceb is a nice fellow
2021-03-16T16:55:57 < Laurenceb> https://patents.google.com/patent/US10085914B2/en
2021-03-16T16:56:38 < mawk> lol
2021-03-16T16:57:31 < mawk> >Figure 1
2021-03-16T16:59:14 < srk> examples of high impact vibrators
2021-03-16T17:02:42 < karlp> fenugrec: is a tds7xxa one of those "you can buy cheap surplus scopes if you live in the lower 48" ?
2021-03-16T17:03:13 < karlp> I'm having a hard time figuring out why I'd pay this osrt of money: https://accusrc.com/product-Tektronix-TDS724A-7196
2021-03-16T17:03:59 < invzim> altium pros.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEVBQUbCMhMlmBdQfZf_CiP9qB8lv5tN/view
2021-03-16T17:04:41 < invzim> it's the entry rule that's complaining, I haven't been able to make a query to avoid it
2021-03-16T17:05:14 < invzim> the complaint is the entry to the the large pad
2021-03-16T17:05:52 < invzim> must surely be a normal situation with qfns?
2021-03-16T17:05:54 < karlp> hrm, nucleo user manual pinout disagrees with cube
2021-03-16T17:06:31 < invzim> karlp: alternative functions?
2021-03-16T17:06:50 < invzim> i.e. ctrl click in cube to see pin alternatives
2021-03-16T17:09:01 < bitmask> smoosh
2021-03-16T17:21:07 < bitmask> nice, get to open my carbon fiber petg 
2021-03-16T17:21:59 < Laurenceb> https://patents.google.com/patent/CN109319109B/en autism
2021-03-16T17:22:05 < karlp> invzim: no, just backwards in the doc: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/QXlPH/switched-in-usermanual.png
2021-03-16T17:22:26 < karlp> part datasheet has PA0 = anin5, and PA1 as anin6.
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2021-03-16T17:24:11 < fenugrec> karlp, I am not in "the lower 48", but I guess they are (were) cheaper on north-american ebay a few years ago. All used test equipment is jumped in price these last few years, plus ebay making concerted efforts to annoy sellers
2021-03-16T17:24:33 < karlp>  also think lots of the surplus is just gone nowadays
2021-03-16T17:24:41 < fenugrec> (I wouldn't pay 2.4k for a 724A, no)
2021-03-16T17:24:48 < fenugrec> possibly
2021-03-16T17:24:52 < karlp> thesd days of "just buy a second hand one" seems to have been always a lttle fluffy
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2021-03-16T17:25:16 < karlp> there definitely were periods when you could snap up pro shit, but with so much "virtual" nowadays, I'm not sure there's as much just ying aroudn
2021-03-16T17:25:27 < fenugrec> yeah everybody caught on to that "neat trick test equipment mfgs don't want you to know"
2021-03-16T17:25:31 < karlp> sure as shit ain't anything available locally here.
2021-03-16T17:27:33 < fenugrec> locally... I can get oldass 15MHz scopes all day for 200$
2021-03-16T17:29:47 < fenugrec> PSA: if anyone is looking at older TDS** scopes, don't spend any extra money for P6139A probes. The coax develops internal shorts and is unrepairable
2021-03-16T17:30:22 < karlp> chhoose "RPM" versiof of cube ide, try out the vendor way for this wb shit,
2021-03-16T17:30:44 < karlp> it's a zip, containing a shell script, that contains an rpm internally, but has hardcoded bullshit to try and run it itself.
2021-03-16T17:30:50 < karlp> why the fuck would they not just provide teh rpm?
2021-03-16T17:40:05 < karlp> fantastic first experience, an unresizeable dialog: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Lw7VI.png
2021-03-16T17:41:37 < karlp> andddd. anotherone. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ogihB.png
2021-03-16T17:41:38 < karlp> fantastic
2021-03-16T17:42:34 < ventYl> i know why i never ran it
2021-03-16T17:43:47 < karlp> well, to be fair, I suspect this is a problem with this machine
2021-03-16T17:43:56 < karlp> simplicity studio doesn't run on on this machine too, which is also eclipse
2021-03-16T17:44:02 < karlp> but it runs on my laptop.
2021-03-16T17:45:40 < ventYl> my main problem was that I refused to do any clickjob in order to be able to run something on my nucleo
2021-03-16T17:46:02 < ventYl> and sources in example project looked fugly
2021-03-16T17:46:22 < karlp> "This Release_Notes.html file uses up to date web standards and, for this reason, should not be opened with Internet Explorer"
2021-03-16T17:48:58 < ventYl> and it also produced horribly large binaries for some reason
2021-03-16T17:49:11 < ventYl> simple led blinker was ~8kB?
2021-03-16T17:49:43 < ventYl> shrinked it down to ~2kB after throwing all existing optimizations in
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2021-03-16T20:47:05 < machinehum> How do you get an idea of an MPU's power consumption? Like I'm designing around this Allwinner A33 and there's no mention on the datasheet of the rough power consumption of any of the 6 voltage busses
2021-03-16T20:47:36 < machinehum> No clue if I smps or ldo's will work
2021-03-16T20:52:03 < machinehum> I suppose I can just rip off someone else design
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2021-03-16T21:08:20 < ventYl> STM has some power figures, but those are for core only
2021-03-16T21:08:30 < ventYl> at least those I've seen
2021-03-16T21:11:01 < qyx> peripherals are specced too, mA per MHz
2021-03-16T21:26:00 < englishman> https://connectivity-staging.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/2018-10/ANT-DS-POE-xxi-0915.pdf
2021-03-16T21:26:14 < englishman> how can this thing be 802.3af compliant if they have models at 24V and below?
2021-03-16T21:26:18 < englishman> i thought all PoE was 44+V
2021-03-16T21:27:25 < Steffanx> They dont even know how to write PoE properly
2021-03-16T21:27:59 < Steffanx> or how to make text fit into a table cell
2021-03-16T21:28:27 < englishman> it's pretty bad.
2021-03-16T21:30:05 < englishman> i'll get something from phihong
2021-03-16T21:30:27 < qyx> https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/
2021-03-16T21:30:29 < qyx> very enlightening
2021-03-16T21:33:41 < englishman> lol, saying "anyone can route ddr3!" then finding a problem on his 8-channel 8GHz scope
2021-03-16T21:34:15 < qyx> Get ready to add 32 resistors to every Sitara AM335x-based design you ever make, since this is the sole way to configure boot options on the platform.
2021-03-16T21:37:42 < englishman> what was his chip selection criteria
2021-03-16T21:37:46 < englishman> ie. why ancent imx6
2021-03-16T21:37:49 < englishman> *ancient
2021-03-16T21:40:03 < qyx> imx6, f1c100s and sama5d27 are some of SoMs with the lowest power consumption I've seen so far
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2021-03-16T21:56:24 < englishman> cool article. thanks
2021-03-16T22:04:52 < Steffanx> hah, he actually explains why this "old" imx6 englishman  :P
2021-03-16T22:05:08 < Laurenceb> male to male transgender represent
2021-03-16T22:11:50 < qyx> TIL discombobulated
2021-03-16T22:14:08 < qyx> if I fail with MP1 in the near future, I'll go with imx6
2021-03-16T22:14:17 < Laurenceb> keeek wtf
2021-03-16T22:14:30 < Laurenceb> >radfems were mass flashing their tits at parliament yesterday
2021-03-16T22:14:47 < Laurenceb> >but one weirdo guy who flashed them back is muh toxic masculinity
2021-03-16T22:16:13 < ventYl> after several days of reading you I gathered enough context to decipher some of words you are using
2021-03-16T22:16:16 < ventYl> "words"
2021-03-16T22:18:56 < Laurenceb> top kek my fren
2021-03-16T22:19:16 < ventYl> now it all starts making sense
2021-03-16T22:22:14 < Laurenceb> you have worked it all out, I am the leader of the international terrorist group known as INCEL
2021-03-16T22:23:47 < ventYl> no no... just. under normal circumstances, term radfem expands to rapid application development finite element method
2021-03-16T22:23:58 < ventYl> and that's just, dafuq dude?
2021-03-16T22:25:11 < karlp> qyx: yeah, that jaycarlson piece is really interesting.
2021-03-16T22:25:19 < karlp> inspiring, but still ended up using a module :)
2021-03-16T22:25:45 < karlp> englishman: I did notice his fancy tools, 
2021-03-16T22:26:09 < karlp> but he also admits later in it, that he got _much_ faster and more confident at the end of it, and that simply _doing_ it enough helped a heap
2021-03-16T22:40:18 < BrainDamage> ventYl: it's best if you just classify as most things said by Laurenceb as if they were said by picking a random post of 4 chan ... because they aree
2021-03-16T22:42:19 < ventYl> that fits into "irc is just a multiplayer notepad" policy
2021-03-16T22:43:05 < qyx> karlp: -> a zypsnip?
2021-03-16T22:43:13 < qyx> do you want a PR?
2021-03-16T22:44:46 < BrainDamage> karlp: I am the opinion that many things are classified harder than they ought to be just because people are used otherwise and heard scary stories
2021-03-16T22:45:07 < BrainDamage> smd home rework used to be the same until ~10 years ago
2021-03-16T22:45:19 < Laurenceb> yeah smd is easy
2021-03-16T22:46:46  * Steffanx gives Laurenceb some 01005 resistors 
2021-03-16T22:46:47 < karlp> ventYl: did you ever hear from the other fdcan person?
2021-03-16T22:46:50 < karlp> PRs are fine...
2021-03-16T22:47:05 < karlp> BrainDamage: yeah, I thnk some of it also is that it _was_ hard.
2021-03-16T22:47:15 < karlp> parts had tighter tolerances, tools were shittier
2021-03-16T22:47:16 < ventYl> karlp: nope, I wrote him an e-mail shortly after I submitted the first PR and there was no reply
2021-03-16T22:47:27 < karlp> aight, I'm mering yrous now then
2021-03-16T22:48:17 < karlp> I love your change logs, but I'm kinda just squishing it all to a single commit...
2021-03-16T22:48:18 < ventYl> I will deal with teh message RAM later, I should be given some H7, which has this fat FDCAN with CC register, so I'll be actually able to test the implementation
2021-03-16T22:48:33 < BrainDamage> karlp:  yes, I sad harder, as in, there's still a difficult component, but it wasn't as prohibitive as people assummed
2021-03-16T22:49:02 < ventYl> karlp: I assumed you'll do that
2021-03-16T22:49:03 < karlp> agreed
2021-03-16T22:49:09 < karlp> ventYl: :+1:
2021-03-16T22:49:55 < ventYl> karlp: what about #1315?
2021-03-16T22:52:19 < karlp> is that the closk source selection one
2021-03-16T22:52:25 < ventYl> yep
2021-03-16T22:52:31 < karlp> sorry gotta run
2021-03-16T22:52:36 < ventYl> np
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 17 2021
2021-03-17T00:03:25 < zyp> if I want a hot air station, and can't afford a JBC JNA, what do I buy?
2021-03-17T00:21:08 < englishman> i got some cheap $30 fan-in-handle thing 10 years ago, it's better than the one at work imo
2021-03-17T00:21:13 < englishman> https://www.xilinx.com/content/xilinx/en/an/cop/cost-optimized-portfolio.html
2021-03-17T00:23:41 < zyp> huh, jbc nano clone: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961352680.html
2021-03-17T00:32:42 < Steffanx> You'll find other jbc clones on the aliexpress as well
2021-03-17T00:36:01 < zyp> yeah, but the nano ones are the interesting ones :)
2021-03-17T00:36:39 < zyp> but still, $400 for a clone with only a single iron doesn't really seem worth it, part of what makes it awesome is the tweezers
2021-03-17T00:41:24 < englishman> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/alibabas-uc-browser-deleted-from-android-app-stores-in-china.html
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2021-03-17T02:13:41 < qyx> zyp: I still have ZD-912
2021-03-17T02:13:52 < qyx> it is maybe 10y old
2021-03-17T02:17:55 < fenugrec> zyp, I have a quick 861dw. IIRC 2019-20 units had a fw bug but mfg sends a replacement PCB for free
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2021-03-17T02:58:38 < aandrew> I can drive a GPIO low and then go to deep sleep with the GPIO maintaining that level, right?
2021-03-17T02:58:43 < aandrew> STM32L03x if it matters
2021-03-17T03:00:53 < qyx> what is a deep sleep?
2021-03-17T03:01:10 < qyx> it maintains the level in stop 0/1/2 modes, standby and shutdown idk
2021-03-17T03:01:24 < qyx> but I would say no in standby and lower
2021-03-17T03:01:53 < qyx> I didn't try standby but I am quite sure for stop modes though
2021-03-17T03:02:59 < qyx> In Stop mode, all I/O pins keep the same state as in Run mode.
2021-03-17T03:03:11 < qyx> rm > pwr > low power modes > stop
2021-03-17T03:03:23 < qyx> In Standby mode, all I/O pins are high impedance except for:
2021-03-17T03:03:32 < qyx> reset, wakeup, some rtc pins
2021-03-17T03:03:50 < aandrew> right, ok, so I just can't standby
2021-03-17T03:04:17 < qyx> yeah, but standby is not that useful at all because waking up from standby is at the reset vector
2021-03-17T03:04:28 < qyx> I mean, it is useful for standby..
2021-03-17T03:04:59 < aandrew> right
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2021-03-17T04:54:24 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/seHNbA5.png
2021-03-17T04:54:25 < bitmask> now thats how you store screws :P
2021-03-17T04:55:02 < aandrew> nod bad
2021-03-17T04:55:05 < aandrew> not*
2021-03-17T04:55:14 < aandrew> I just have a zillion little boxes and evelopes from spae-naur
2021-03-17T04:55:41 < bitmask> yea most of mine were just in bags but I got tired of it
2021-03-17T04:56:17 < aandrew> something inside me snapped in the last couple years
2021-03-17T04:56:42 < aandrew> I'm fucking addicted to little organizers and shelving and basically figureing out how to store everything in some kind of organized manner
2021-03-17T04:56:55 < qyx> haha ocpd it is called
2021-03-17T04:57:31 < aandrew> I think it's more "I'm sick and fucking tired of not knowing where the fuck I put X"
2021-03-17T04:58:02 < qyx> you know, it can develop later in life
2021-03-17T04:58:09 < qyx> also true
2021-03-17T04:58:18 < qyx> I am doing the same the last yeaar or two
2021-03-17T04:58:29 < bitmask> yea same here obviously :)
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2021-03-17T07:16:25 < Bluecoat> karlp: ?  Sorry, beagle?
2021-03-17T07:17:42 < jpa-> Bluecoat: the beagle question was to zyp
2021-03-17T07:48:16 < Bluecoat> jpa-: oh, sorry, tried to applied context where there was none. :-)  All of my openocd problems are because I need to read more documentation right now.
2021-03-17T08:34:49 < zyp> fenugrec, yeah, I glanced around aliexpress yesterday and they seemed the most reasonable cheap ones
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2021-03-17T08:46:09 < R2COM> oh man fuck the fpga manufacturers, they should choke and die of their greediness for charging $$$ for shitty soft designed to work only with THEIR devices
2021-03-17T08:54:32 < zyp> agreed
2021-03-17T08:56:31 < R2COM> https://github.com/antmicro/symbiflow-examples/tree/master/xc7
2021-03-17T08:56:32 < R2COM> ^
2021-03-17T08:56:57 < R2COM> those retards made toolchain flow for xc7 xilinx devices, but those devices are supported by free webpack
2021-03-17T08:57:09 < R2COM> fucking imbeciles... make toolchains for the ones NOT supported by xilinx
2021-03-17T08:57:29 < R2COM> or for spartan6 (which is huge pain but still lots of devices here and there to support etc)
2021-03-17T08:58:31 < R2COM> fpga manufactures are spoiled by big customers, who buy large quantities and dont care about dev tools
2021-03-17T08:58:50 < R2COM> in fact, they might throw few licenses in the deal when customers confirms ordering of say 10k devices 
2021-03-17T09:00:14 < R2COM> but for someone small  or small R&D firm who wants to roll some quick proof of concept work with higher level device supporting transceiver or other must have feature ... device cosing say ~$700 or so is OK but also right away $5k or so for dev tools...
2021-03-17T09:00:39 < R2COM> unless whatever stuff they provide exists on eval board..which sometimes has option of node-locked license tools
2021-03-17T09:00:49 < R2COM> (so you can only get code built for that board)
2021-03-17T09:01:14 < ventYl> big customers may even like the fact that there is some toolchain "for free" available straight from manufacturer
2021-03-17T09:01:20 < ventYl> completely ignoring how shitty it is
2021-03-17T09:01:41 < R2COM> im dealing with that stuff now at work, since i have to support shitload of spartan6 stuff
2021-03-17T09:01:57 < R2COM> im not using GUI flow tho
2021-03-17T09:02:09 < R2COM> i do all from CLI
2021-03-17T09:02:31 < R2COM> but ise14.7 from command line doesnt run all stages on win10
2021-03-17T09:02:37 < R2COM> like, for example, map program
2021-03-17T09:02:52 < R2COM> i do it by running stuff on remote linux servers
2021-03-17T09:03:00 < ventYl> :) been there, seen that (yet with different kind of stuff)
2021-03-17T09:03:09 < R2COM> but then i have to live with shitty lag of remote connection etc
2021-03-17T09:03:43 < R2COM> i mean if you are selling me fucking device give me tool for free, i can use that tool only with your device
2021-03-17T09:06:47 < ventYl> oh, this wasn't very pleasant flashback
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2021-03-17T10:13:54 < qyx> oh that jay carlson uses the same colours, I didn't notice it yesterday
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2021-03-17T13:25:47 < Steffanx> Same colours as what qyx?
2021-03-17T13:32:49 < qyx> oh as me in kicad
2021-03-17T13:33:05 < qyx> I forgot to end the sentence
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2021-03-17T14:22:44 < englishman> p sure ise isn't even available for windows anymore
2021-03-17T14:22:54 < englishman> you download some lunix vm with ise preinstalled
2021-03-17T14:47:24 < Steffanx> The ISE 14.7 download is still there. For Windows 10 or is it actually 15GB of lunix image?
2021-03-17T14:47:48 < Steffanx> Ah yes it is
2021-03-17T14:48:00 < Steffanx> 😓
2021-03-17T14:48:14 < Steffanx> Oracle lunix.
2021-03-17T14:50:33 < qyx> are they serious?
2021-03-17T14:56:19 < tct> somebody: tell me a sad story.
2021-03-17T14:57:13 < englishman> in the future, you'll own nothing, and you'll be happy
2021-03-17T15:02:57 < tct> that's already the case (:
2021-03-17T15:17:11 < mawk> that's not a sad story englishman 
2021-03-17T15:17:19 < tct> I agree
2021-03-17T15:17:47 < tct> englishman is probably too much of a privileges white male to be able to provide a truly sad story :p
2021-03-17T15:17:55 < mawk> lol
2021-03-17T15:17:59 < englishman> nothing will be as good as it once was
2021-03-17T15:18:15 < mawk> tct: your child will encounter someone like me on the internet and start shooting up pills from your medicine cabinet
2021-03-17T15:18:18 < tct> englishman, also not cancer treatment? c'mon man... you have to try harder.
2021-03-17T15:18:22 < mawk> at least that's how I got started
2021-03-17T15:18:27 < mawk> I can thank bouba from quakenet
2021-03-17T15:21:16 < mawk> also in a not so distant future we will likely run out of oil
2021-03-17T15:21:20 < mawk> back to the stone age
2021-03-17T15:21:32 < mawk> a sizeable portion of humanity will die
2021-03-17T15:21:36 < mawk> I hope I die before that happens
2021-03-17T15:23:57 < Steffanx> Congrats englishman 
2021-03-17T15:24:20 < Steffanx> 5.
2021-03-17T15:32:29 < jpa-> oh, tct has a child already? cool
2021-03-17T15:34:32 < mawk> I said that at random
2021-03-17T15:34:34 < mawk> but probably
2021-03-17T15:42:57 < jpa-> mawk: are you the mother?
2021-03-17T15:44:27 < mawk> :(
2021-03-17T15:44:35 < mawk> I have long hair but no double X chromosome
2021-03-17T15:44:47 < mawk> but modern medecine can do miracles so I don't know
2021-03-17T15:45:03 < mawk> actually my hair is getting blonde under sun exposure, that sucks
2021-03-17T15:45:10 < mawk> I spent all my life making fun of blondes
2021-03-17T15:45:24 < mawk> I should get a sun umbrella like the japanese
2021-03-17T15:48:23 < Steffanx> Or just get some hair dye
2021-03-17T15:48:56 < mawk> I'm a 100% natural guy
2021-03-17T15:49:04 < mawk> why would I put nasty chemicals on my hair
2021-03-17T15:50:57 < Steffanx> Yeah just don't go outside. All the nasty polluted air
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2021-03-17T15:55:03 < mawk> yeah
2021-03-17T15:55:04 -!- oofus [~quassel@185.93.28.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-03-17T15:55:23 < mawk> I'm much better inside sniffing formaldehyde vapors off my brand new ikea furniture
2021-03-17T15:55:50 < mawk> and doing lines of random chemical white powder off that I nicely aligned with my corona-coated credit card
2021-03-17T15:56:25 < mawk> I thought the cards were more durable than that, they started leaking bits of plastic
2021-03-17T15:56:47 < tct> jpa-, no. far from it.
2021-03-17T15:59:53 < Steffanx> A pet is enough kid?
2021-03-17T16:00:53 < mawk> I almost became a father in high school
2021-03-17T16:01:01 < mawk> that would've sucked
2021-03-17T16:01:37 < tct> mawk, is that when you decided to move from france to dutchland? :-D
2021-03-17T16:01:43 < mawk> lol
2021-03-17T16:01:44 < zyp> for you or for the kid?
2021-03-17T16:01:59 < mawk> for me
2021-03-17T16:02:09 < mawk> I kept a cat alive for years, I'm totally capable
2021-03-17T16:02:29 < tct> why would you want to keep a cat alive?
2021-03-17T16:02:36 < mawk> it's fluffy
2021-03-17T16:02:44 < mawk> and when it's dead it starts decomposing and not fluffy anymore
2021-03-17T16:04:14 < tct> sounds to me like a reason not get get a cat in the first place
2021-03-17T16:05:27 < Steffanx> No, be happy she just sucked mawk.
2021-03-17T16:05:39 < tct> like... sexually? o.O
2021-03-17T16:05:48 < tct> or is this pet talk I don't get.
2021-03-17T16:12:02 < mawk> lol Steffanx 
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2021-03-17T16:12:08 < mawk> it got really close
2021-03-17T16:12:14 < Steffanx> It was a late response to his comment about it would have sucked 
2021-03-17T16:12:18 < mawk> good thing france is not USA and abortions are easy to get
2021-03-17T16:15:19 < tct> mawk, I assume they are even easier to get in dutchland - is that why you moved there?
2021-03-17T16:15:40 < Laurenceb>  ##abortion32
2021-03-17T16:15:50 < Laurenceb> >shake the babby not kill the babby
2021-03-17T16:16:25 < ventYl> mawk: to be fair, cat doesn't need a lot of attention in order to stay alive
2021-03-17T16:16:30 < tct> Laurenceb, still making babyshakers for a living?
2021-03-17T16:16:43 < Laurenceb> no, working on hyperloop
2021-03-17T16:17:08 < Laurenceb> todays work problem, how do I tie pcb ground to aluminium die cast box?
2021-03-17T16:17:52 < zyp> screw and ring terminals?
2021-03-17T16:18:06 < tct> ring terminals with flexible copper/aluminium/steel mesh?
2021-03-17T16:18:40 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you know you can tin aluminium if you cover the area with machine oil and then scratch the surface under oil with soldering iron tip?
2021-03-17T16:19:06 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: I've never been able to make that work
2021-03-17T16:19:24 < tct> PaulFertser, that sounds like a real russian technique.
2021-03-17T16:19:27 < Laurenceb> zyp: yeah, but does that go open circuit with corrosion?
2021-03-17T16:19:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: hm, I gotta try one day
2021-03-17T16:19:56 < zyp> hmm, I see general bga decoupling guidelines say one cap for every two balls
2021-03-17T16:19:59 < Laurenceb> >PaulFertser never actually tried it
2021-03-17T16:20:18 < tct> Laurenceb, are you hyperlooping for real? 
2021-03-17T16:20:24 < zyp> this thing I'm working on got six balls on core rail, split 3+3
2021-03-17T16:20:32 < zyp> so I guess that's four caps then
2021-03-17T16:20:36 < Laurenceb> I mean I could just tap a hole and use a brass machine screw with cheese head
2021-03-17T16:20:48 < Laurenceb> but I'm worried it will go open circuit
2021-03-17T16:21:22 < zyp> Laurenceb, add some conductive grease or some shit to protect against corrosion?
2021-03-17T16:21:24 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: I've managed to solder stianless with acidic plumbing flux, but never alu
2021-03-17T16:21:31 < Laurenceb> zyp: hmm good plan
2021-03-17T16:21:44 < Laurenceb> I'll look up how conductive conductive grease really is
2021-03-17T16:22:09 < zyp> that's not the point
2021-03-17T16:22:50 < zyp> you put the grease on the contact surfaces and screw it down so it squeezes out to fill the voids
2021-03-17T16:24:37 < jpa-> i would use serrated lock washers
2021-03-17T16:24:52 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: yes, I have special flux for stainless, bought it to fix old Irish Sennheisers that have steel wire.
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2021-03-17T16:25:26 < jpa-> the main point is that you tighten it so much that there is airtight contact between the metals, and then it doesn't corrode because there is no air there
2021-03-17T16:25:57 < ventYl> Laurenceb: Once you tighten it, there will be metal-metal contact. Grease works just a water displacer
2021-03-17T16:26:19 < ventYl> I have some connectors in my car sealed this way
2021-03-17T16:26:25 < ventYl> it works reliably for years
2021-03-17T16:26:45 < PaulFertser> What kind of grease? I've heard the usual Li probably works for that.
2021-03-17T16:26:57 < ventYl> what shelve gave me
2021-03-17T16:27:10 < tct> ventYl, so not specifically conductive grease?
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2021-03-17T16:28:04 < ventYl> well, no. that would probably actually caused problems in my case. I just put some grease into female part of connector before connecting it back together
2021-03-17T16:28:13 < ventYl> conductive grease could cause shorts
2021-03-17T16:36:17 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah ok
2021-03-17T16:36:38 < Laurenceb> so just a tightened brass machine screw into a tapped hole should work
2021-03-17T16:36:51 < Laurenceb> as long as there is no corrosion before I put it in
2021-03-17T16:39:10 < PaulFertser> Tried with alu foil and failed :(
2021-03-17T16:39:31 < t4nk_freenode> If I was somehow put in front of our great lord and saviour, and was allowed to ask HHHHImmmm only one question... it would be..
2021-03-17T16:39:43 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-17T16:39:43 < t4nk_freenode> 'Why did you have to make us POOP, you BASTARD!!?'
2021-03-17T16:40:16 < jpa-> isn't poop the joy of life?
2021-03-17T16:40:50 < t4nk_freenode> in some circumstances it can be pretty liberating, yeah :)
2021-03-17T16:41:03 < Laurenceb> t4nk_freenode: The pedo test: Take the following test by clicking the link to see if you're prone to being a pedo. Note: The girls pictured in the test are actually 18 years old. But you didn't know that because you didn't read the small print before clicking did you you fucking pedo!
2021-03-17T16:41:35 < t4nk_freenode> no  joy with me there, mate
2021-03-17T16:41:38 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: but it might work with something that I do not immediately tear off with the tip
2021-03-17T16:41:39 < Laurenceb> seeing as t4nk freenode likes his copypastas
2021-03-17T16:41:39 < t4nk_freenode> I like em saggy!
2021-03-17T16:41:41 < t4nk_freenode> :b
2021-03-17T16:42:28 < Laurenceb> I need a hotkey to spam a random copypasta
2021-03-17T16:43:18 < jpa-> Laurenceb: i thought that was what you have been doing for the past 11 years
2021-03-17T16:43:26 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-17T16:43:39 < t4nk_freenode> took the words right out of me.
2021-03-17T16:44:35 < Laurenceb> talking of long time lurkers, I wonder what happened to flyback
2021-03-17T16:44:51 < t4nk_freenode> he's here.
2021-03-17T16:45:02 < t4nk_freenode> and has been for all this time
2021-03-17T16:45:21 < Laurenceb> wew
2021-03-17T16:45:27 < Laurenceb> imagine the smell
2021-03-17T16:45:42 < englishman> he still chats on efnet
2021-03-17T16:45:59 < Laurenceb> >canuck
2021-03-17T16:46:16 < Laurenceb> I presumed he had decomposed by now
2021-03-17T16:47:39 < Laurenceb> I was watching a documentary about John DeLorean last night, it was like the story of every kickstarter ever lol
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2021-03-17T17:39:17 < t4nk_freenode> things will change for the better, now that we have Señior bitmask in the house.
2021-03-17T17:39:34 < bitmask> umm sure
2021-03-17T17:40:07 < t4nk_freenode> how's things, my soon to be needing glasses chump?
2021-03-17T17:40:51 < bitmask> good, just got some biden monies in my account, how about you
2021-03-17T17:43:40  * t4nk_freenode makes a 'comme-ci, comme-ça' gesture 
2021-03-17T17:44:01 < t4nk_freenode> things are moving along normally I guess
2021-03-17T17:44:49 < t4nk_freenode> tried to print a planetary gear box thingie last night, made it too small
2021-03-17T17:44:56 < bitmask> whats it for
2021-03-17T17:45:16 < bitmask> ive wanted to print one too
2021-03-17T17:46:06 < t4nk_freenode> just to see if it would work, it didn't even fit together. But it would be nice to run some experiments to see how much torque you could get from small dc motors
2021-03-17T17:46:59 < t4nk_freenode> see if it may be able to roll up the blinds, before x-mas
2021-03-17T17:47:10 < bitmask> heh
2021-03-17T17:49:56 < mawk> no tct I moved to dutchland like 1 year ago, a bit more
2021-03-17T17:50:04 < mawk> the abortion thing was in high school
2021-03-17T17:50:20 < mawk> but the girl did it on her own, she didn't even allow me to be in the hospital with her
2021-03-17T17:51:22 < bitmask> ohhh the ADS868x is fancy, im goin with that
2021-03-17T17:52:47 < tct> mawk, what was your motivation to from france to dutchland?
2021-03-17T17:53:11 < Steffanx> Stroopwafels
2021-03-17T18:07:34 < mawk> tct: over half of my family tree is from dutchlandia area
2021-03-17T18:07:46 < mawk> and I have ze citoyenneté néerlandaise
2021-03-17T18:08:03 < mawk> also I needed to find an job and it's easier in NL with no diploma
2021-03-17T18:08:15 < mawk> and last but not least, I had a few judicial debts
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2021-03-17T19:13:10 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of muh email
2021-03-17T19:13:27 < Laurenceb> >Twitter storm at 1.00-2.00pm. Take a selfie with this downloadable sign or video yourself 'taking the knee' then tweet using #TakeTheKnee
2021-03-17T19:13:30 < Laurenceb> how about no
2021-03-17T19:14:33 < Laurenceb> keeek imagine explaining to bussguy why I was talking time out from muh eternal zoom meeting
2021-03-17T19:18:53 < mawk> you have to be on zoom meeting all day Laurenceb ????
2021-03-17T19:19:08 < Laurenceb> almost
2021-03-17T19:19:12 < mawk> wtf
2021-03-17T19:19:15 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-03-17T19:19:16 < mawk> you have to quit
2021-03-17T19:19:21 < mawk> get out of there asap
2021-03-17T19:19:22 < Laurenceb> heh I get paid
2021-03-17T19:19:34 < mawk> it doesn't matter
2021-03-17T19:19:34 < Laurenceb> >they do it for free
2021-03-17T19:19:42 < mawk> if my company did that I'd quit
2021-03-17T19:19:57 < Laurenceb> heh its only some days of the week that it seems like etenral zoom
2021-03-17T19:19:59 < mawk> at the start of the pandemic they entertained the idea of doing a perpetual teams meeting for the whole day, keeping your cam on and so on
2021-03-17T19:20:07 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-17T19:20:07 < mawk> I made it clear I'd quit if they did that
2021-03-17T19:20:18 < mawk> so they didn't
2021-03-17T19:27:50 < Laurenceb> keek latest 8kun admin has been doxxed
2021-03-17T19:28:00 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/gosbee_
2021-03-17T19:28:15 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/gosbee_
2021-03-17T19:28:27 < Steffanx> Don't believe a everything he says mawk... or at least with a  huge grain of salt.
2021-03-17T19:28:31 < Laurenceb> pretty much what I expected
2021-03-17T19:29:11 < Steffanx> So when he says "almost" that means a few minutes 
2021-03-17T19:33:30 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/gosbee_/status/1352619241812451331/
2021-03-17T19:33:33 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2021-03-17T19:37:02 < bitmask> isnt it pretty? https://i.imgur.com/seHNbA5.png
2021-03-17T19:37:29 < t4nk_freenode> lol, bitmask, you bloody BASTARd!
2021-03-17T19:37:40 < bitmask> haha what
2021-03-17T19:37:41 < t4nk_freenode> I have _some_ nuts and bolts coming
2021-03-17T19:37:46 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-03-17T19:38:00 < t4nk_freenode> but I want a box, 34x as big as yours
2021-03-17T19:38:07 < t4nk_freenode> and even then it wouldn't be enough
2021-03-17T19:38:27 < bitmask> i have 3 of these and two smaller 24's i like these 36's so much i ordered 3 more
2021-03-17T19:38:49 < t4nk_freenode> you bought the box like that?
2021-03-17T19:39:15 < bitmask> the box has the compartments, i added the labels
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2021-03-17T19:39:55 < t4nk_freenode> it's pretty expensive methinks, it adds up, few bolts here, a few there
2021-03-17T19:40:23 < bitmask> the bolts or the bins?
2021-03-17T19:40:51 < t4nk_freenode> bolts are friggin expensive I say, golden business
2021-03-17T19:41:11 < t4nk_freenode> but yeah, also storage is a bit of a problem
2021-03-17T19:41:27 < t4nk_freenode> I still need to come up with a way to organize my stuff
2021-03-17T19:42:23 < Steffanx> again, same box bitmask ?
2021-03-17T19:42:31 < bitmask> ?
2021-03-17T19:42:51 < Steffanx> i recall you posted it before
2021-03-17T19:43:03 < bitmask> oh last night? i didnt think anyone was awake haha
2021-03-17T19:43:10 < Steffanx> but how  can you deal with the missing labels?
2021-03-17T19:43:44 < bitmask> its not finished yet, i just havent finalized how im setting it up so i dont wanna put the labels yet
2021-03-17T19:43:46 < t4nk_freenode> or the pointless empty compartments
2021-03-17T19:45:38 < bitmask> this bin i'll keep empty compartments because there will only be like 2 or 3 and i may fill them, the others i'll break the order to avoid empty compartments because I dont have full sets for the other stuff I want in the bins
2021-03-17T19:47:17 < bitmask> this bin is definitely the most common sizes I use, aside from M2 but I dont want M2 in such big compartments, I'll use the 24 compartment one for m2
2021-03-17T19:47:44 < bitmask> and also for m3-m4 nuts/nylocs/washers/heatset screw inserts
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2021-03-17T20:28:57 < qyx> jpa-: I ordered 1 m heatshrink tubes.. do you know this story?
2021-03-17T20:31:42 < zyp> you got 1m diameter, not 1m length?
2021-03-17T20:33:48 < qyx> I was reminded the story jpa- mentioned recently, he ordered something and they sent it straight in a 1m long box
2021-03-17T20:34:00 < zyp> ah
2021-03-17T20:34:04 < qyx> but at least TME was able to bend them into a 0.5 m box
2021-03-17T20:34:24 < zyp> … I bought 75cm of ledstrip yesterday
2021-03-17T20:34:31 < zyp> ordered*
2021-03-17T20:35:04 < qyx> some fancy stuff that you ordered exactly 75 cm?
2021-03-17T20:35:18 < zyp> that's how long it was
2021-03-17T20:35:37 < qyx> a rigid one?
2021-03-17T20:35:48 < zyp> no, I assume it'll arrive rolled up
2021-03-17T20:36:30 < zyp> oh, sorry, only 50cm, but 75 leds
2021-03-17T20:36:32 < zyp> https://www.digikey.no/product-detail/en/adafruit-industries-llc/4368/1528-4368-ND/10650645
2021-03-17T20:36:58 < zyp> I wanna see how well those leds work as indicators
2021-03-17T20:38:04 < Steffanx> Heh, at least my 10 TO220 fets didnt came in a 75x16x10cm box last week
2021-03-17T20:39:03 < qyx> ydo you plan to desolder them?
2021-03-17T20:39:22 < zyp> I was picking up some other greenpak stuff and saw there's a new one with a pattern generator, so I ended up making a serial led controller with it: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3wERs.png
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2021-03-17T20:40:04 < zyp> can control up to 30x rgb, with the pattern generator selecting between on, off or controlled by one of the six inputs
2021-03-17T20:40:42 < zyp> also does auto bypass if you feed in a stream on serial_in, and the pattern generator ram can be rewritten over i2c
2021-03-17T20:41:22 < zyp> so it can control the leds from plain inputs, from i2c or act as a simple voltage translator to 5V
2021-03-17T20:42:59 < zyp> planning to try it out on the board I'm currently working on, to show basic status before the fpga boots (or if it doesn't boot) and then transparently hand over control of the leds to the fpga
2021-03-17T20:43:35 < zyp> so I bought the strip so I can test it just by hooking up the strip to the greenpak devkit
2021-03-17T20:46:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: tct
2021-03-17T20:58:08 < qyx> common leds not enough?
2021-03-17T20:58:56 < qyx> I found some RG58, it looks too sparse https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SK8Fh
2021-03-17T21:04:56 < bitmask> when using a nice ADC like the ADS868x would you use the internal reference voltage or provide your own
2021-03-17T21:06:12 < qyx> depends on your needs and whether you are able to achieve performance of the internal one
2021-03-17T21:08:16 < bitmask> does the internal reference quality depend on the supplied voltage quality?
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2021-03-17T21:09:22 < qyx> yes to some degree, there is a PSSR parameter and a bucn of others I don't know about
2021-03-17T21:09:34 < qyx> not analol enough
2021-03-17T21:09:41 < qyx> *PSRR
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2021-03-17T21:10:20 < zyp> I like the simplicity of having one signal to control all leds
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2021-03-17T21:55:51 < mawk> 18:37 <t4nk_freenode> I have _some_ nuts
2021-03-17T21:55:52 < mawk> not just 2?
2021-03-17T22:01:31 < Laurenceb> he _is_ nuts
2021-03-17T22:07:23 < bitmask> how does stm32 handle SPI CS pin? is it automatic? If so, how do you handle more than one device? Should I just not use the default CS pin and manually control two other pins for the two devices?
2021-03-17T22:07:33 < zyp> no
2021-03-17T22:07:48 < zyp> you only wanna use the NSS pin if you're operating as a slave
2021-03-17T22:08:29 < bitmask> oh I wasnt even thinking, it is SS not CS, so I should just use two other pins as CS manually?
2021-03-17T22:08:53 < zyp> if you've got three devices, you'll want to control it manually for all three of them
2021-03-17T22:09:01 < bitmask> k
2021-03-17T22:09:22 < zyp> SS vs CS naming doesn't matter, it's just that ST calls the function SPIx_NSS
2021-03-17T22:09:50 < zyp> and you can of course use the NSS pin for it, just in normal gpio mode rather than NSS function
2021-03-17T22:10:00 < bitmask> k
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2021-03-17T22:31:43 < t4nk_freenode> nono mawk, sth musta gotten lost in translation.. I meant '_Some_ nuts!', as in the kind that compels the owner to go back to the mirror and pull their pants down an extra time for another glance
2021-03-17T22:32:43 < t4nk_freenode> eeeeeverryyything isss commmming...... myy whaaaaaaaaaaheeeyyyy
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2021-03-18T00:10:28 < karlp> zyp: greenpak is ~somewhat supported in yosys iirc? are you just using the normal designer?
2021-03-18T00:15:55 < zyp> somewhat, yeah, but I expect only a few parts
2021-03-18T00:20:45 < zyp> I figure that considering how few and diverse the resources are, you'd end up telling it how to hook up things manually anyway unless you're doing something consisting only of luts and flipflops
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2021-03-18T00:50:53 < karlp> yar
2021-03-18T00:54:00 < bitmask> on refcap and refio what are the resistors before the decoupling caps for? https://i.imgur.com/gzPKBt1.png
2021-03-18T00:55:15 < bitmask> its an adc
2021-03-18T01:10:00 < bitmask> REFIO is an output of the internal 4.096V reference, is it just to limit how fast the cap charges/discharges?
2021-03-18T01:10:41 < bitmask> actually it shows an external reference so in this example it could be an input
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2021-03-18T02:13:24 < jadew> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-56372118
2021-03-18T02:14:02 < jadew> https://www.thelocal.it/20210115/mum-and-dad-references-to-be-removed-from-italian-kids-id-cards/
2021-03-18T02:14:10 < aandrew> lol
2021-03-18T02:16:39 < jadew> looks like france jumped on it first
2021-03-18T02:17:18 < jadew> saw a news segment where they were saying the EU plans to make it mandatory for everyone...
2021-03-18T02:18:06 < jadew> I don't think it makes sense to do it everywhere tho
2021-03-18T02:19:34 < jadew> in some countries the whole gender identity and LGBT movements are rejected (for now)
2021-03-18T02:27:14 < jadew> it was romanian news, and I found it on tiktok
2021-03-18T02:27:22 < jadew> the comments were hilarious
2021-03-18T02:28:26 < jadew> "I'm going to kill myself and I hope I'll spawn at least 100 years into the past."
2021-03-18T02:33:34 < jadew> https://www.gandul.ro/international/folosirea-cuvintelor-mama-si-tata-interzisa-parlamentul-european-ghid-de-conversatie-pentru-functionarii-publici-19602508
2021-03-18T02:33:44 < jadew> couldn't find an english version
2021-03-18T02:33:49 < jadew> but it seems to be for real
2021-03-18T02:38:04 < jadew> according to the article, they're removing sex: from birth certificates and they're replacing it with "assigned sex at birth" wtf?
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2021-03-18T03:41:28 < fenugrec> ooh, just got some fresh github phish mail. Has my account name, email address, and reported a "deprecated password access via API"
2021-03-18T03:42:02 < fenugrec> with a poisoned 'review your activity' link
2021-03-18T03:43:15 < englishman> i just got a bunch of google verification code textx
2021-03-18T03:43:31 < englishman> but they removed the page that shows where login attempts are coming from? or maybe that was the paid google only
2021-03-18T03:44:20 < englishman> the it guy at work says hameconnage has gone up like 20x since a year
2021-03-18T03:46:27 < fenugrec> yeah, they're getting good at it
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2021-03-18T09:16:21 < machinehum> If I have a 16bit ddr3 w/ UDQS & LDQS, connect to an MPU with just a DQS, should I just tie those three pins together? I'm assuming the high/low bytes are for an MPU with just 8bits on the databus exposed?
2021-03-18T09:17:53 < zyp> that doesn't sound right
2021-03-18T09:18:08 < machinehum> lol shit
2021-03-18T09:18:17 < zyp> there should be one DQS for every 8 DQ lines
2021-03-18T09:20:34 < machinehum> That is the case on my 16bit RAM, UDQS and LDQS. But my MPU has DQ[0..15] exposed with only this... https://imgur.com/a/h2hlZwj
2021-03-18T09:20:58 < machinehum> And I'm pretty sure the DQS1/DQS0 are for two banks of ram
2021-03-18T09:21:20 < zyp> nope
2021-03-18T09:21:44 < zyp> DQS0 = LDQS, DQS1 = UDQS
2021-03-18T09:22:23 < zyp> DQS are the data strobes, there's one strobe for each byte lane
2021-03-18T09:23:23 < zyp> this avoids the need for length matching all the data lines to each other, they just need to be length matched within each particular byte lane
2021-03-18T09:23:39 < machinehum> Thanks, first time I've done a design with ddr3
2021-03-18T09:23:41 < machinehum> Got it
2021-03-18T09:23:41 < zyp> (but follow the rules for your particular controller for that)
2021-03-18T09:24:06 < jly> ty
2021-03-18T09:24:35 < machinehum> There other pins threw me off https://imgur.com/a/f3ij6MD DCS1, DODT1, DCLK1
2021-03-18T09:24:40 < machinehum> These*
2021-03-18T09:25:12 < zyp> yeah, those are for having multiple ranks
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2021-03-18T09:27:48 < zyp> as far as I understand it, CS selects which rank to use (i.e. a good old chip select), CLKs are dedicated per rank for increased signal integrity, and the ODT signal control which rank does internal termination of the signals
2021-03-18T09:29:18 < machinehum> Makes sense, I'm assuming I can just leave all those others unconnected and the kernel will deal with the rest
2021-03-18T09:29:38 < zyp> the ones for rank 1? I assume so
2021-03-18T09:29:53 < machinehum> Yeah
2021-03-18T09:30:11 < machinehum> Assuming your rank numbering starts at 0
2021-03-18T09:30:15 < zyp> not sure how «deal with it» works, I assume the memory setup is stored somewhere
2021-03-18T09:30:51 < machinehum> Sounds like a later buildroot problem
2021-03-18T09:31:22 < zyp> but the kernel is probably not involved, I'd guess the memory controller is initialized either before u-boot or early in u-boot
2021-03-18T09:31:43 < zyp> so that the kernel itself can be loaded into dram
2021-03-18T09:32:02 < machinehum> Right of course
2021-03-18T09:32:29 < machinehum> Cool, yeah thanks again
2021-03-18T09:33:11 < zyp> ah, https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/U-Boot_overview#U-Boot_overview
2021-03-18T09:33:27 < zyp> FSBL initializes memory controller, SSBL is loaded into dram
2021-03-18T09:33:28 < jly> ty
2021-03-18T09:43:54 < qyx> zyp: did you play with nfc in the "host" mode?
2021-03-18T09:45:12 < qyx> oh ST25R is for readers
2021-03-18T09:45:18 < jly> ANY OF YOU BASTARDS GOT A MATCH
2021-03-18T09:50:16 < zyp> qyx, «host» mode?
2021-03-18T10:07:08 < Steffanx> Jly is alive?
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2021-03-18T10:45:08 < jpa-> TIFFTAG_ASSHOTNEUTRAL   i wonder if whoever wrote the standard did this on purpose
2021-03-18T10:45:29 < jpa-> i guess it is useful metadata for some kinds of pictures
2021-03-18T11:02:44 < jadew> check this out, for about a year now, I'm getting daily spam with the same e-amil message, both in russian and english, from the same name, but with different email addresses
2021-03-18T11:03:17 < jadew> offering me webdesign services and they want to be contacted by phone, because they don't answer to e-mail lol
2021-03-18T11:03:33 < jadew> every day, the same stupid message
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2021-03-18T11:25:48 < mouseghost> hewo
2021-03-18T11:25:50 < mouseghost> so i was wondering
2021-03-18T11:26:38 < mouseghost> if i am making two devices in total, no more, for industrial app., is using something like bluepill and embedding it in the device acceptable or is it a no-no sin?
2021-03-18T11:28:23 < jpa-> bluepills tend to have pretty bad build quality and poor quality parts, so i would go for some more reputable dev board
2021-03-18T11:30:01 < jpa-> consider also mounting - bluepill does not have mounting holes, so either you have it hanging by the wires, mounted with hot glue or mounted on another PCB; and if you are mounting on another PCB, why not just solder the chip there also?
2021-03-18T11:30:07 < srk> blackpill .. :)
2021-03-18T11:30:49 < mouseghost> jpa-, and how do i know about the caps and all? just read the AN for the chip?
2021-03-18T11:31:10 < jpa-> mouseghost: you can steal the bluepill schematics if you want, it is not too bad
2021-03-18T11:31:29 < mouseghost> i mean, its not like i want the exact same thing...
2021-03-18T11:31:35 < mouseghost> i just need the chip and thats all
2021-03-18T11:31:43 < mouseghost> hell, i would consider doing 8bit but its pretty expensive
2021-03-18T11:31:58 < mouseghost> and i dont have a good isp thingie 
2021-03-18T11:32:33 < jpa-> but if you are going to be using STM32F103, just stick 100nF on each VDD and VDDA pin and you are good
2021-03-18T11:32:41 < mouseghost> oh, it isnt too bad
2021-03-18T11:32:49 < mouseghost> jpa-, to ground, you mean
2021-03-18T11:33:12 < jpa-> yes, between the VDD and VSS pins, and VDD is connected to +3.3V and VSS is connected to ground
2021-03-18T11:33:30 < mouseghost> ye
2021-03-18T11:33:53 < mouseghost> ah also another thing, since probably some here work in electronics -- is there some tips on how to make industrial things that dont catch on fire?
2021-03-18T11:34:56 < mouseghost> unless its not so hard
2021-03-18T11:35:00 < mouseghost> i am just scared
2021-03-18T11:35:07 < jpa-> get a fireproof box? :)
2021-03-18T11:35:41 < jpa-> and put a fuse on the power supply, or use a power supply with overcurrent protection
2021-03-18T11:35:55 < mouseghost> i have thought of that :P
2021-03-18T11:36:04 < mouseghost> also a zener probs
2021-03-18T11:38:02 < mouseghost> whats a box with these fancy screw-on things on outside connections?
2021-03-18T11:38:07 < mouseghost> whats it called?
2021-03-18T11:40:53 < jpa-> cable glands?
2021-03-18T11:43:14 < mouseghost> yeah!
2021-03-18T11:43:15 < mouseghost> thanks x3
2021-03-18T11:43:25 < mouseghost> jpa-, almost called glans
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2021-03-18T12:00:00 < karlp> englishman: what's "hameconnage" ?
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2021-03-18T12:06:33 < grog> does BOR affect power draw in standby? stm32L051 specifically
2021-03-18T12:11:15 < karlp> good ol st, zips containing tar.gz...
2021-03-18T12:12:16 < mouseghost> karlp, for better compression and smaller size
2021-03-18T12:14:30 < karlp> feck, java segfaults
2021-03-18T12:14:32 < karlp> thanks st
2021-03-18T12:15:43 < Steffanx> It's french for phishing karlp
2021-03-18T12:15:52 < Steffanx> He didn't write the ç properly 
2021-03-18T12:16:11 < Steffanx> I didnt know, but I was curious too, so googled it
2021-03-18T12:16:34 < karlp> that would have been too easy
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2021-03-18T12:28:59 < ventYl> fucking web services
2021-03-18T12:29:04 < karlp> anyone used stm32cubemonitor-rf?
2021-03-18T12:29:22 < karlp> usingmy java -jar cubemon.jar fails to find the main class that's inside the jar,
2021-03-18T12:29:29 < karlp> using their provided java segfaults
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2021-03-18T13:31:09 < karlp> really annoysme how a vendor will _soemtimes_  use a part number with suffixes for package variants or even functionality differences, wioth one datasheet, then in the same family of devices, have a different part number with a different sheet that differs only in the package....
2021-03-18T13:31:55 < zyp> > expecting vendors to be consistent
2021-03-18T13:36:19 < grog> yeh wait till each fab appends their own suffix too, then a prefix, then an internal part designation, then their supplier's, and the PO, and...
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2021-03-18T14:08:40 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/OjujbUH.mp4
2021-03-18T14:08:43 < BrainDamage> like a glove
2021-03-18T14:15:52 < mouseghost> BrainDamage, condom 
2021-03-18T14:25:09 < englishman> lol
2021-03-18T14:32:36 < ventYl> i just got offered position of C++ MS-DOS software developer
2021-03-18T14:32:47 < ventYl> i had to check which year it is
2021-03-18T14:33:38 < fury> tonight we gonna party like it's 1999
2021-03-18T14:35:57 < fury> Does anyone know if the single I2S on the STM32F042 can operate in TDM4 mode to spit out 4 channels? The data sheet is rather light on what the I2S peripheral can do, compared to some of the beefier families that have the SAI peripheral. It says it supports 4 formats, but...which?
2021-03-18T14:37:28 < karlp> BrainDamage: is that just one person's collection?
2021-03-18T14:38:48 < fury> I'd like to set up a simple custom 4 channel USB sound card, 4 channels input and 4 channels output, simply translating the USB audio into I2S/TDM to a DAC...it seems like the 072 has two I2S so I could just do two stereo DACs off those
2021-03-18T14:43:40 < BrainDamage> karlp: was retweeting, but I don't think so, it seems more like a collage of youtube videos
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2021-03-18T15:17:55 < karlp> For this design example, the calculated peak current is 3.63 A and the calculated RMS current is 3.02 A. The
2021-03-18T15:17:57 < karlp> inductor used is a WE 744311150 with a rated current of 11 A
2021-03-18T15:18:00 < karlp> no fucking overkill at all, no.
2021-03-18T15:38:50 < qyx> zyp: sry, reader mode
2021-03-18T16:13:30 < zyp> qyx, what do you mean by reader mode?
2021-03-18T16:17:49 < zyp> so, uh, remember I said I ordered that led strip?
2021-03-18T16:17:51 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uUc3P.jpg
2021-03-18T16:20:01 < zyp> oh, it's rolled up in a box inside the box
2021-03-18T16:21:59 < Steffanx> I still like ARROW. Order 10 fets and 10 caps for 9 euro, get it delivered for free in huuugee ass boxes.
2021-03-18T16:22:08 < Steffanx> Can't even ship to my neighbours for free
2021-03-18T16:22:24 < qyx> zyp: there are chips for tag emulation and for readers and idk which one exactly did you play
2021-03-18T16:22:37 < qyx> it seems there are multipurpose chips too
2021-03-18T16:22:37 < Steffanx> And not even shipped at the same time, 2 different routes from the US to dutchland
2021-03-18T16:22:50 < qyx> like ST25R3916/7
2021-03-18T16:23:09 < zyp> I've done reader with ST95HF
2021-03-18T16:25:43 < qyx> now I am confused, they all look the same
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2021-03-18T20:32:44 < englishman> what's the latest news on ST delays?
2021-03-18T20:43:05 < jpa-> and what about digikey delays? i ordered on monday, my order hasn't shipped yet
2021-03-18T20:44:06 < qyx> only a single one F042 in stock on mouser except wlcsp ones
2021-03-18T20:44:44 < qyx>  11.760 Expected 1/19/2022 
2021-03-18T20:44:56 < qyx> gtfo 44 weeks
2021-03-18T20:45:38 < qyx> I'll have to recycle trashed old boards to get 2€ MCUs for new protos :S
2021-03-18T20:47:43 < jpa-> i have 3x STM32F042K6T6
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2021-03-18T21:22:59 < englishman> 44 week lead time is better than no given lead time
2021-03-18T21:32:31 < englishman> no stock at arrow!!
2021-03-18T21:32:38 < englishman> you know it's bad!!
2021-03-18T21:33:33 < englishman> f042 is particularly terrible
2021-03-18T21:34:13 < englishman> even poor old f303 is dead. some f302 left but ~hundreds
2021-03-18T21:36:28 < englishman> https://sigma.octopart.com/21439960/image/STMicroelectronics-STM32F303RDT6.jpg jeez looks like they are trying to save money by clipping off pins
2021-03-18T21:38:14 < zyp> jpa-, they were busy shipping my stuff instead
2021-03-18T21:38:38 < zyp> I ordered some stuff around midnight between tuesday/wednesday and it arrived today
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2021-03-18T22:53:02 < karlp> kata ordered some shit from theuk last night, got an email this afternoon that it's arrived and is in customs handling.
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2021-03-18T23:00:51 < Steffanx> kata.. this one google doesnt know, karlp  
2021-03-18T23:01:07 < Steffanx> theuk wasnt too obvious either :P
2021-03-18T23:02:17 < karlp> kata is a name...
2021-03-18T23:02:23 < karlp> the uk, sorry.
2021-03-18T23:04:08 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-03-18T23:28:19 < machinehum> digikey qtd. was so bad I just picked whatever F103x there was
2021-03-18T23:28:32 < machinehum> The cocksucker only had 16k of ram
2021-03-18T23:28:35 < machinehum> flash*
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2021-03-18T23:55:08 < Steffanx> F103 😭
--- Day changed Fri Mar 19 2021
2021-03-19T00:00:24 < qyx> F103 /o\
2021-03-19T00:00:30 < qyx> are we in 2010?
2021-03-19T00:11:51 < Steffanx> F100 forever. I think that was my first stm32
2021-03-19T00:12:19 < Steffanx> Doing ultrasonic anemometering
2021-03-19T00:14:05 < Steffanx> Good old times. Fun project but my PCB design sucked
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2021-03-19T00:25:22 < zyp> maybe it's time to redo it? :)
2021-03-19T00:25:55 < qyx> with H7
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2021-03-19T01:03:39 < basdb> if i'm using a tri-state shift register like a 74HC595 driving the gate of BSS131 mosfets (SOT23 smol bois) do I need an inline gate resistor and gate drain resistor to ground or is that just reserver for power FETs
2021-03-19T01:04:37 < basdb> sure if it gets put in HiZ the gate won't discharge (or eventually will) but for the most part it'll be high or low, seems like they typically clamp output current at 20mA which is sufficient
2021-03-19T01:08:05 < qyx> what about using a dedicated multichannel led/relay driver?
2021-03-19T01:08:17 < qyx> you'll avoid 16 resistors, 8 fets
2021-03-19T01:09:04 < basdb> well i need a max VDSS of >150VDC is the trick, for a nixie tube ultimately
2021-03-19T01:09:41 < basdb> I've looked at the HV5522 and similar which are great, but have the additional requirement of a 12V power, and are 32-bit (im only driving 4 tubes so 24 bits of a 2nd HV5522 are unused)
2021-03-19T01:10:00 < qyx> oh
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2021-03-19T01:10:29 < basdb> EEVBlog had some trickery with a darlington array and using zeners as clamping diodes to avoid over-voltage situations with VCE
2021-03-19T01:10:59 < qyx> you don't need the gate resistor, such small fets have enormously high internal gate resistance
2021-03-19T01:11:05 < basdb> thats why im wondering if I can get away without the resistors on something like a BSS131
2021-03-19T01:11:18 < basdb> let me check that actually qyx
2021-03-19T01:14:07 < basdb> hmm not sure
2021-03-19T01:17:26 < qyx> I would simply drive them directly from i2c expanders
2021-03-19T01:18:07 < qyx> tbh I would not even consider shift registers
2021-03-19T01:20:09 < basdb> its surprisingly cheaper to go with individual discrete "open drain" nfets as opposed to arrays, since there are few or no arrays that suit my purpose i could find
2021-03-19T01:22:59 < qyx> Steffanx: do you have the schematic handy? (re: the anemometer thing)
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2021-03-19T01:38:25 < bitmask> hmmm should I go with tssop or wqfn
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2021-03-19T02:05:55 < Ultrasauce> basdb: you can likely skip the gate resistors but i'd recommend weak pulldowns on them
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2021-03-19T03:54:44 < basdb> thanks Ultrasauce 
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2021-03-19T07:37:24 < bitmask> this is driving me nuts, is this a typo? Why is the OPA350 op amp being shown with positive feedback as a buffer?
2021-03-19T07:37:25 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/MnGYXTN.png
2021-03-19T07:46:58 < jpa-> looks like a typo
2021-03-19T07:48:29 < jpa-> according to datasheet, putting 10µF on the output of OPA350 is not a good idea either, as it makes it significantly less stable
2021-03-19T07:50:21 < qyx> you mean unstable
2021-03-19T07:50:42 < qyx> jpa- is being optimistic today
2021-03-19T07:51:01 < jpa-> qyx: well the datasheet graph only goes up to 1µF, but it appears to be stable with 60% overshoot at that point
2021-03-19T07:52:09  * qyx is examining a project repository
2021-03-19T07:52:34  * qyx finds a MDK-ARM directory
2021-03-19T07:52:37 < bitmask> yea i have a note to look into that cap already
2021-03-19T07:52:49  * qyx finds a bunch of *.o and *.d inside
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2021-03-19T07:55:31 < bitmask> the article I got that image from does state that with the open loop output resistance (43 ohm) and 200mOhm for the cap it would be stable
2021-03-19T07:55:50 < bitmask> but ive never used op amps before so i'm just learning about their specs and stuff now
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2021-03-19T07:57:13 < jpa-> based on OPA350 datasheet i'd also say that it would be stable, but i'm not sure if it makes sense to put it there
2021-03-19T07:57:52 < jpa-> i guess that depends on the ADC sample time, if it is very short compared to OPA350 response time, then maybe it makes sense
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2021-03-19T10:31:47 < Steffanx> Lol no, not worth it qyx.
2021-03-19T10:32:05 < Steffanx> The awfulness is not worth sharing
2021-03-19T10:32:30 < Steffanx> And why H7? Because its the only stm32 available? :)
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2021-03-19T10:50:16 < zyp> because it's the most overkill solution
2021-03-19T10:50:21 < zyp> unless you go for a mp1
2021-03-19T10:52:10 < jpa-> H7 is the bestestest
2021-03-19T10:52:52 < jpa-> with fun quirks like needing a memory barrier after RCC clock enable writes
2021-03-19T10:58:04 < zyp> I've had problems accessing peripherals too quickly after turning them on on other families too though
2021-03-19T10:58:15 < zyp> probably F4
2021-03-19T11:00:48 < zyp> IIRC the compiler inlined both the enable and whatever peripheral I was configuring and reorganized the code so that both the enable and the next write were prepared first, and then both enable register and the peripheral register were written back to back
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2021-03-19T11:36:52 < karlp> someone on locm3 wanted to add dsb's for everything inside the peripheral enables for this...
2021-03-19T11:37:29 < zyp> I've considered doing that in laks at some point
2021-03-19T11:37:58 < karlp> ah no, it was worse: they watned delays: https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/pull/758/files
2021-03-19T11:38:11 < jpa-> haha
2021-03-19T11:38:27 < jpa-> having a dsb at the end of rcc_peripheral_enable_clock() might make sense, though
2021-03-19T11:38:35 < karlp> and funnily enough, I wasn't excited about that...
2021-03-19T11:38:37 < zyp> but for now I generally avoid the problem by doing something like enable(PERIPH_A); enable(PERIPH_B); PERIPH_A.init(); PERIPH_B.init();
2021-03-19T11:38:55 < karlp> yeah, that's what I encouraged, but I don't know hwo to communicate that well to people :)
2021-03-19T11:39:30 < jpa-> hmm, though the comments claim that reference manual specifies delays
2021-03-19T11:40:04 < karlp> that pr is also about as old as f7, so it may have been a rev1 ref man.
2021-03-19T11:40:21 < karlp> and yes, it does, but for ~everyone normally, you can't run more code fast enough for it to matter.
2021-03-19T11:40:32 < karlp> ie, _noone_ ever reported problems until he was running on f7.
2021-03-19T11:40:49 < jpa-> https://github.com/ChibiOS/ChibiOS/blob/314d6d51318c66117082ff58a83674e99105d2e1/os/hal/ports/STM32/STM32H7xx/stm32_rcc.h#L362   looks like chibios does a *read* of the register after it.. i guess that causes a delay proportional to the bus speed
2021-03-19T11:41:21 < jpa-> with -flto, running more code fast enough is pretty easy
2021-03-19T11:41:25 < zyp> the libopencm3 enable function isn't inlinable without LTO though
2021-03-19T11:41:51 < zyp> laks was written with inlining in mind since the beginning
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2021-03-19T11:45:36 < karlp> yes, people complain about "omg, nothing inlines" and I'm like, "don't care, ladaedadeadad"
2021-03-19T11:45:41 < karlp> "lto will fix everything..."
2021-03-19T11:46:03 < karlp> I've got zero interest in doing groundbreaking re-engineering of locm3...
2021-03-19T11:46:24 < zyp> LTO weren't really an option when I started on laks
2021-03-19T11:46:27 < mouseghost> that silicon shortage is killing me ;-;
2021-03-19T11:46:32 < zyp> but yeah
2021-03-19T11:47:07 < zyp> I'm waiting for C++20 module support to mature so I can get rid of the entire source/header split
2021-03-19T11:47:26 < mouseghost> can anyone recommend cheap low-power mcus that are available? spi, uart and some timers; in system programming required..
2021-03-19T11:47:27 < karlp> and just have everything in .h, like the c++ gods apparently intended? ;)
2021-03-19T11:47:39 < mouseghost> karlp, nice ;p
2021-03-19T11:47:46 < zyp> karlp, well, that's what laks mostly does
2021-03-19T11:47:52 < karlp> that's why I said it :)
2021-03-19T11:47:55 < jpa-> mouseghost: just eat some fruit or bread, it should provide plenty of silicon for your nutritional needs - you don't need to eat microchips to stay alive
2021-03-19T11:48:23 < mouseghost> ;---;
2021-03-19T11:48:29 < mouseghost> but i need microchips
2021-03-19T11:48:33 < zyp> once modules are usable, I'll migrate everything to .cppm or whatever the standard extension will be
2021-03-19T11:48:53 < zyp> and that gets turned into both a precompiled header and an object, as I understand it
2021-03-19T11:49:02 < karlp> sometimes I think I shoudl be using c++, then I look at it again, and decide maybe I shouldn't be...
2021-03-19T11:49:20 < zyp> haha
2021-03-19T11:49:34 < karlp> anyway, tps56[23]xxx series are rad. thanks whoever suggested them.
2021-03-19T11:49:39 < zyp> I think it's great, I look at it this way:
2021-03-19T11:50:05 < karlp> not quite the perfect flat load regulations of some of the fancy ones, but for bulk 12V->5V, super rad, super cheap
2021-03-19T11:50:41 < zyp> with a C source you get the complexity evenly distributed all over the place, with C++ you can concentrate all the complexity in a few places you don't have to look at so often, and make the rest of the source simpler :)
2021-03-19T11:51:01 < karlp> it's all fair, but you're already _in_ c++
2021-03-19T11:51:23 < karlp> and new toys I get to eliminate an entire source of embedded code anyway
2021-03-19T12:01:53 < karlp> eenewseurope still offline via ovh :)
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2021-03-19T12:31:56 < ventYl> mouseghost: atmels? :))
2021-03-19T12:32:49 < mouseghost> eh mb attiny..
2021-03-19T12:34:12 < ventYl> zyp: C++ modules remind me of Python and Pascal too much. I somehow got used to be able to look into relatively short header to find clues there
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2021-03-19T13:53:15 < skz81> ventYl, there's always someone to complain of anything... Modules are here to avoid reparsing/recompiling the same zillion headers for each .cpp files (so ideally, each class)
2021-03-19T13:53:20 < skz81> ;°)
2021-03-19T13:53:42 < zyp> precompiled headers already existed though
2021-03-19T13:54:47 < zyp> the problem is that the header/source split becomes pretty arbitrary when you involve templates
2021-03-19T13:56:05 < zyp> all of a sudden you have a bunch of code that needs to be in headers because different code is emitted depending on how it is called
2021-03-19T13:56:57 < zyp> and another bunch of code that needs to be in source files because it emits unique symbols
2021-03-19T14:18:26 < ventYl> right, that's one thing which annoyed me too
2021-03-19T14:19:24 < mawk> you put the template code in hxx files
2021-03-19T14:19:27 < mawk> that you include at the end of h file
2021-03-19T14:19:29 < mawk> then it's clean
2021-03-19T14:20:03 < qyx> use python instead
2021-03-19T14:20:11 < mawk> :(
2021-03-19T14:26:04 < ventYl> i tried to do so. our automotive XMLs took some 10+ seconds to be parsed on moderately powerful i7 in Python
2021-03-19T14:26:20 < ventYl> same thing took like 0.1 seconds in ReactOS virtual on Core2Duo in C++
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2021-03-19T14:43:54 < jpa-> > automotive XMLs > ReactOS
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2021-03-19T14:48:09 < ventYl> automotive XMLs are a reality
2021-03-19T14:48:24 < ventYl> ReactOS was just my test how the code will run on Windows
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2021-03-19T15:41:15 < Laurenceb> G4 looks quite nice, kind of like a saner F3
2021-03-19T15:41:32 < Laurenceb> can anyone explain how HRTRIM works?
2021-03-19T15:41:43 < Laurenceb> is it for internal RC oscillator only?
2021-03-19T15:42:44  * Laurenceb going perman00b
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2021-03-19T15:43:49 < Laurenceb> I plan to make a USB audio device using internal ADC with a load of oversampling
2021-03-19T15:44:00 < Laurenceb> need to keep it aligned to USB frames
2021-03-19T15:44:43 < qyx> are you sure the load of oversampling gives you an usable result?
2021-03-19T17:12:41 < qyx> huh LoRa modules with STM32WL
2021-03-19T17:14:53 < Laurenceb> qyx: the G4 actually claims 16bit effective with oversampling
2021-03-19T17:15:17 < Laurenceb> actually maybe I can make this dirt simple by triggering ADC off a timer
2021-03-19T17:15:29 < Laurenceb> then software pll to lock the timer to the usb
2021-03-19T17:15:43 < Laurenceb> that would prob run on any stm32
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2021-03-19T17:18:10 < jpa-> oversampling probably works fine for audio
2021-03-19T17:18:12 < Laurenceb> could use the fractional N synth method I used on F1 and F4: ADC trigger timer in slave mode running off another timer, causing it to intermittently miss clocks to dither the effective pwm frequency
2021-03-19T17:18:18 < jpa-> but i'm not sure if hrtim has anything useful to offer there
2021-03-19T17:18:38 < jpa-> i would just use the clock sync system to base HSI on usb frames, and then everything is automatically aligned
2021-03-19T17:18:41 < Laurenceb> yeah you can just do fractional N synth with all stm32 timers
2021-03-19T17:18:59 < Laurenceb> jpa-: I tried that on F0, it didnt work
2021-03-19T17:19:04 < jpa-> didn't work how?
2021-03-19T17:19:09 < Laurenceb> its a FLL not a PLL, so it still drifts
2021-03-19T17:19:23 < jpa-> ah
2021-03-19T17:19:24 < Laurenceb> not good enough to synch samples over usb
2021-03-19T17:19:51 < Laurenceb> I'll do the dual timer fractional N synthesiser method
2021-03-19T17:20:33 < Laurenceb> as the timer reload value will be something really small like 16
2021-03-19T17:20:39 < Laurenceb> to get 4Msps
2021-03-19T17:20:43 < ventYl> hm, I have old Blaupunkt car stereo laying here
2021-03-19T17:20:51 < ventYl> it has dead MCU and all-digital internals
2021-03-19T17:20:53 < ventYl> it is from like 1995
2021-03-19T17:21:18 < mawk> throw it away
2021-03-19T17:21:21 < mawk> who uses car stereo anyway
2021-03-19T17:21:37 < ventYl> I thought of replacing internals with something more modern
2021-03-19T17:21:55 < Laurenceb> so a second timer with a reload value of ~1024 can be used to alternately dither it between 15-16
2021-03-19T17:22:57 < ventYl> mawk: I don't want to have a hole in my dashboard
2021-03-19T17:23:06 < mawk> add some tape
2021-03-19T17:23:17 < Laurenceb> G4 ADC is pretty hawt, differential inputs like the F3
2021-03-19T17:23:41 < Laurenceb> the opamps are also better, but still a bit shitty
2021-03-19T17:23:49 < jpa-> Laurenceb: you could also have just interrupt that adjusts CCR1 register of the timer every now and then, effectively skipping or adding a pulse by changing the phase a bit
2021-03-19T17:24:33 < Laurenceb> jpa-: yeah but thats very coarse, so it would have to run at like ~1Mhz
2021-03-19T17:24:46 < Laurenceb> a second timer and slave mode allows you to do that with just hardware
2021-03-19T17:24:46 < jpa-> depends on how fast you drift
2021-03-19T17:25:00 < Laurenceb> its effectively a fractional N synth
2021-03-19T17:25:16 < Laurenceb> this is how I did OFDM with F1 and F4 using only timers
2021-03-19T17:26:47 < Laurenceb> then you can just timestamp each SOF using the Cube callback function, and run a software PLL at 1khz
2021-03-19T17:27:51 < jpa-> if your output is 4Msps, at worst you would have to interrupt at 250kHz; and that would be if you have 6% clock error; if clock error is max 200 ppm, one could just do the pulse skip at SOF interrupt - but yeah, dual timers works also and if you have already figured it out, go for it
2021-03-19T17:28:41 < Laurenceb> well I'd prob have <50ppm as its gunna be off a xtal
2021-03-19T17:29:00 < jpa-> why bother with xtal, just CRS it to USB :)
2021-03-19T17:29:08 < Laurenceb> but the problem is the timer that triggers the ADC will have a really low reload value, like 16 or so
2021-03-19T17:29:35 < Laurenceb> so with just that timers you only have really coarse control, so itd take a ton of interrupt overhead to keep it controlled
2021-03-19T17:29:48 < jpa-> i have the underlying assumption that an integer reload value would be nominally correct
2021-03-19T17:29:58 < Laurenceb> using a second master timer to dither it solves that problem
2021-03-19T17:30:07 < jpa-> then you wouldn't have to adjust the ARR at all, just CCR
2021-03-19T17:30:26 < Laurenceb> ohhhhh
2021-03-19T17:30:33 < Laurenceb> yeah thats a plan
2021-03-19T17:30:52 < Laurenceb> but it'd be hard to handle a cycle skip
2021-03-19T17:31:46 < jpa-> TIM->CCR1 = (TIM->CCR1 + 1) % (TIM->ARR + 1);   <- pulse skip      TIM->CCR1 = (TIM->CCR1 - 1) % (TIM->ARR + 1);   <-- pulse add
2021-03-19T17:32:28 < jpa-> assuming preload at correct time which i haven't bothered figuring out ;)
2021-03-19T17:34:07 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-03-19T17:34:31 < Laurenceb> yeah theres a buffer register to update the used values at timer overflow
2021-03-19T17:34:46 < Laurenceb> this might owrk
2021-03-19T17:35:29 < jpa-> HRTIM would be cool for this otherwise, but i think the period has to be multiple of system clock, even though the pulses themselves can be positioned with higher accuracy
2021-03-19T17:35:47 < Laurenceb> 50ppm is 50ns/ms, or 3 ADC clocks
2021-03-19T17:36:15 < Laurenceb> so it could cope with up to ~+-150ppm xtal offset
2021-03-19T17:36:24 < Laurenceb> easily good enough
2021-03-19T17:37:10 < Laurenceb> and simpler for everything being integer ratios, so I could have 44ksps audio out
2021-03-19T17:37:26 < jpa-> "The high-resolution is available for ... PWM period adjustment ..."    hmm, actually you can just use HRTIM directly
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2021-03-19T17:38:02 < Laurenceb> yeah I'm not too worried about exact sampling time jitter
2021-03-19T17:38:12 < Laurenceb> its frequency accuracy thats the concern
2021-03-19T17:38:34 < Laurenceb> phase drift over ~seconds
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2021-03-19T17:38:42 < jpa-> 5.44 GHz equivalent clock, so you can just set HRTIM->PERxR = 5440/4 + adjustment;
2021-03-19T17:39:01 < Laurenceb> aiui thats just the pwm duty?
2021-03-19T17:39:10 < jpa-> no, period
2021-03-19T17:39:26 < Laurenceb> oh wow ok, didnt realise it could do that
2021-03-19T17:39:30 < jpa-> also for duty, but it says high resolution is available for period also
2021-03-19T17:39:41 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-19T17:39:50 < Laurenceb> prob not needed tho
2021-03-19T17:40:02 < jpa-> not needed, but HRTIM is nice and simple
2021-03-19T17:40:21 < Laurenceb> I need to work out on paper how cycle skips are handled, but I think regular timer can handle it ok for +-150ppm xtal
2021-03-19T17:40:39 < Laurenceb> using just CCR, as you suggested
2021-03-19T17:41:28 < jpa-> such jitter
2021-03-19T17:41:30 < jpa-> much not cool
2021-03-19T17:42:35 < jpa-> go and embrace the 214 registers of HRTIM, they'll solve all your problems and you just have to set a few bits
2021-03-19T17:45:59 < Laurenceb> hmm it might not be good enough
2021-03-19T17:46:29 < Laurenceb> using ~4GHz equivalent to control 4Msps ADC gives +-10^-3 accuracy
2021-03-19T17:46:51 < Laurenceb> or +-4samples per 1ms
2021-03-19T17:46:58 < Laurenceb> thats a lot of "jitter"
2021-03-19T17:46:58 < jpa-> hmm.. good point
2021-03-19T17:47:48 < Laurenceb> just a normal timer cant correct the frequency at all
2021-03-19T17:47:59 < Laurenceb> but it will prob be ~+-20ppm
2021-03-19T17:48:38 < Laurenceb> so only ~0.1 ADC samples jitter per 1ms
2021-03-19T17:48:49 < Laurenceb> then it gets corrected using software pll at 1khz
2021-03-19T17:49:03 < Laurenceb> heh, regular timers win
2021-03-19T17:50:24 < Laurenceb> fraction of a sample jitter is fine, as the bandwidth is ~20khz and I'm mainly using the fast sample rate to up the effective number of bits to ~15
2021-03-19T17:52:18 < jpa-> TIM1/8/20 on G4 have some funny dithering mode that can add 4 bits
2021-03-19T17:52:52 < jpa-> not sure if it is of any use here, but seems to be new-ish
2021-03-19T17:55:02 < Laurenceb> interesting, I'll have a read
2021-03-19T17:58:36 < Laurenceb> but first I have to make libreoffice behave...
2021-03-19T17:59:01 < jpa-> ok, we shall continue this discussion in approx. 200 years
2021-03-19T17:59:11 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-19T17:59:37 < Laurenceb> it will let me import word style templates
2021-03-19T17:59:48 < Laurenceb> but now it thinks section 4.1 is section 1.3
2021-03-19T18:00:03 < Laurenceb> it forgets all level one heading numbers after 1
2021-03-19T18:07:23 < Laurenceb> hmm in fact its unaware of all level 1 headings
2021-03-19T18:09:41 < Laurenceb> oh god what
2021-03-19T18:09:43 < Laurenceb> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_word-mso_other-mso_2010/why-do-my-heading-2-style-items-continue-numbering/0e860d4c-09e9-436f-bbbf-0dbafcdaf1f5
2021-03-19T18:09:57 < Laurenceb> tfw this shit is completely broken even in ms word
2021-03-19T18:10:03 < Laurenceb> latex ftw
2021-03-19T18:20:24 < karlp> ah crap, getting that 50week lead time 
2021-03-19T18:20:35 < karlp> thoguht I was dodging it on not using stm32 micros, but no....
2021-03-19T18:21:13 < qyx> what for?
2021-03-19T18:22:42 < karlp> metering chips
2021-03-19T18:23:07 < karlp> I've got a few in house, but not exciting prospect
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2021-03-19T18:53:00 < fenugrec> is ST's USB FS device library available standalone still or do I need to pull it out of cubeF0/middlewares/etc ? STSW-STM32092 seems to be only the old 1.0.0  lib
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2021-03-19T19:07:57 < fenugrec> cool, the cubef0 download page is only serving v1.11.0, not the most recent 1.11.2
2021-03-19T19:08:05 < mawk> zyp: https://maths.serveur.io/rlulvcdz = ?
2021-03-19T19:11:13 < fenugrec> 0.2722
2021-03-19T19:11:50 < fenugrec> = e / 10
2021-03-19T19:11:57 < fenugrec> heh
2021-03-19T19:15:39 < mawk> no fenugrec 
2021-03-19T19:15:45 < mawk> but good spirit
2021-03-19T19:15:51 < mawk> answer is 1/2 ln(2) π/4
2021-03-19T19:15:54 < mawk> but I want proof of why
2021-03-19T19:16:16 < mawk> it's kinda "obvious" you will have ln(2), you have ln(1+x) in the integrand
2021-03-19T19:16:41 < mawk> then it's also obvious you have some π/4 lying around, because 1/(1+x²) is the derivative of arctan, the inverse tangent function
2021-03-19T19:16:46 < mawk> and arctan(1) = π/4
2021-03-19T19:16:56 < mawk> so it's not unexpected to find both ln(2) and π/4 in the answer
2021-03-19T19:19:09 < jpa-> karlp: on the other hand, some parts i need had 40 week lead time in february, but now they are back in stock everywhere
2021-03-19T19:19:40 < englishman> maxim holding strong with their 666 week lead times
2021-03-19T19:19:42 < jpa-> so i guess they are just throwing big estimates because they don't know or sell preferentially to big customers
2021-03-19T19:21:01 < englishman> mawk: 0.3
2021-03-19T19:21:32 < mawk> noooooooooo englishman I want a formal proof
2021-03-19T19:21:40 < englishman> not for free
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2021-03-19T19:47:29 < zyp> mawk, meh
2021-03-19T19:47:43 < karlp> ok, hand estimate before hand, bom ws $30.  full kicad schematic kicost bom, $38..
2021-03-19T19:47:49 < karlp> nottt too bad initial estimate.
2021-03-19T19:48:35 < mawk> zyp :( you don't like calculus?
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2021-03-19T19:50:39 < karlp> and kicad bom cost at 500 units is $33, I was damn close.
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2021-03-19T19:59:47 < jpa-> karlp: does kicost work well?
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2021-03-19T21:13:19 < mouseghost> anyone used efm?
2021-03-19T21:13:28 < mouseghost> busy bee
2021-03-19T21:17:16 < mouseghost> it looks cheap so i was wondering..
2021-03-19T21:23:20 < Steffanx> Just a little 
2021-03-19T21:23:42 < Steffanx> Just some usb and 3 adc channels. Worked fine
2021-03-19T21:23:58 < Steffanx> Simplicity studio is 🤮 though
2021-03-19T21:24:49 < Steffanx> If you hate eclipse based ides, you'll hate simplicity studio a 1000 times more
2021-03-19T21:25:17 < ventYl> :>
2021-03-19T21:26:03 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/KuLBybRR
2021-03-19T21:29:41 < mouseghost> Steffanx, how did you program it?
2021-03-19T21:30:15 < Steffanx> Simplicity studio.. 😅
2021-03-19T21:30:50 < mouseghost> Steffanx, then, how did you upload your program?
2021-03-19T21:31:49 < Steffanx> Efm32 has swd like pretty much any cortexmwhatever 
2021-03-19T21:31:56 < Steffanx> In my case a jlink
2021-03-19T21:32:20 < Steffanx> And clicking run in the IDE. Or using ozone
2021-03-19T21:35:01 < mouseghost> Steffanx, do you think i could use st-link from china to program it?
2021-03-19T21:35:42 < Steffanx> If it works with openocd, that it's pretty likely it will work
2021-03-19T21:35:56 < Steffanx> Then*
2021-03-19T21:36:00 < Steffanx> Than then then
2021-03-19T21:36:07 < mouseghost> ;---;
2021-03-19T21:36:14 < mouseghost> 8-bit ones use some c2 interface apparently
2021-03-19T21:36:24 < mouseghost> but idk how to program it...
2021-03-19T21:37:20 < ventYl> is it some semi-ancient stuff, which predates ARM stuff by a decade?
2021-03-19T21:37:25 < ventYl> similar to AVR and PIC?
2021-03-19T21:37:43 < mouseghost> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AN127.pdf
2021-03-19T21:38:02 < mouseghost> ventYl, i would use arm but i am afraid i wont find what i want in these trying times
2021-03-19T21:38:46 < mouseghost> i just want something cheap that i can program ;__;
2021-03-19T21:38:59 < mouseghost> id even go with attiny, but i dont think i have a programmer for it
2021-03-19T21:39:53 < ventYl> you can put AVRISP together using 0.90 EUR worth of parts and parallel port
2021-03-19T21:39:56 < ventYl> USBASP
2021-03-19T21:40:12 < mouseghost> i do have usbasp
2021-03-19T21:40:13 < mouseghost> buut
2021-03-19T21:40:17 < mouseghost> im not sure how compatible it is
2021-03-19T21:40:27 < mouseghost> im just afraid, thats all
2021-03-19T21:40:54 < ventYl> well, I am just trying to tell you, that if you have atmega, a crystal and a bunch of resistors and two 3v3 zeners, you can put usbasp together on your own
2021-03-19T21:40:58 < ventYl> asine
2021-03-19T21:41:37 < ventYl> you can program it using something, which is called STK200, but it is basically just a parallel port stuff with some resistors on it
2021-03-19T21:43:11 < ventYl> ah, you do have it
2021-03-19T21:43:17 < mouseghost> ye
2021-03-19T21:43:33 < ventYl> i think it is compatible with whole AVR8 lineup
2021-03-19T21:43:54 < ventYl> it doesn't work for AVR32 and SAM[79][SX]
2021-03-19T21:44:53 < ventYl> attiny1,2,4,5,8 and 9 seem to be supported in avrdude
2021-03-19T21:45:17 < mouseghost> hm
2021-03-19T21:45:23 < mouseghost> tho i think ill give a shot to the efm32
2021-03-19T21:45:37 < qyx> I have some spare 68hc11's
2021-03-19T21:46:09 < ventYl> yeah, because your PDIP40 80C51 ended up here
2021-03-19T21:47:03 < qyx> I like giveaways
2021-03-19T21:47:28 < mouseghost> besides, avr isp over spi is kinda...
2021-03-19T21:47:31 < mouseghost> me no likey
2021-03-19T21:47:34 < mouseghost> it gives me ball cramps
2021-03-19T21:47:41 < ventYl> at least you don't have to deal with e-waste
2021-03-19T21:48:39 < mouseghost> and all that shit just to send two pin states over the radio lmao
2021-03-19T21:55:48 < Steffanx> oh efm8 meh
2021-03-19T22:18:56 < invzim> class-d audio amp bringup, scope looks like garbage :)
2021-03-19T22:22:57 < invzim> something tells me because I'm using a 50W 4-ohm resistor to simulate a speaker
2021-03-19T22:38:36 < Steffanx> Custom class-d or just some ic mr invzim ?
2021-03-19T22:38:42 < Steffanx> the tas5805m i used did a fine job
2021-03-19T22:39:13 < invzim> pam8320
2021-03-19T22:39:39 < invzim> first amp I'm doing, what could be more hobby? :)  
2021-03-19T22:40:02 < qyx> I used that one too
2021-03-19T22:41:49 < invzim> took the chance of hooking up a speaker, and it's a lot of noise and it makes a brezpfh sound when powering up
2021-03-19T22:42:21 < invzim> the TAS5805M looks a lot nicer :(
2021-03-19T22:42:57 < Steffanx> hah i used it just as an class-d amp. Nothing fancy it does i used. 
2021-03-19T22:43:09 < Steffanx> just i2s in, oidio out.
2021-03-19T22:43:21 < Steffanx> *a
2021-03-19T22:45:30 < invzim> the noise sounds like white noise
2021-03-19T22:48:17 < invzim> qyx: the cap on the input is just a dc blocker, or is it something magical?
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2021-03-19T22:51:13 < qyx> yes
2021-03-19T22:51:46 < invzim> yes dc blocker or yes magical? :)
2021-03-19T22:52:09 < qyx> yes it is!
2021-03-19T22:52:18 < qyx> a dc block cap :P
2021-03-19T22:52:36 < qyx> hm or maybe it was pam8302 then?
2021-03-19T22:53:04 < qyx> yeah 8302 it was
2021-03-19T22:53:14 < invzim> https://www.diodes.com/assets/Evaluation-Boards/PAM8320-User-Guide.pdf
2021-03-19T23:07:22 < invzim> allright, visual inspection revealed I had soldered a couple of caps on only one side - now it sounds much better :)
2021-03-19T23:25:42 < Steffanx> Lolol
2021-03-19T23:26:21 < fenugrec> anyone playing with socketcan / vcan interfaces in linux  by any chance ? trying to figure out how to bridge vcan0 and can0
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2021-03-19T23:38:01 < fenugrec> nm, bypassed the problem entirely
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--- Day changed Sat Mar 20 2021
2021-03-20T00:08:27 < jadew> it's Friday, Friday, gotta get down on Friday
2021-03-20T00:08:52 < jadew> everybody's looking forward to the weekend?
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2021-03-20T00:27:56 < fenugrec> everybody's russian
2021-03-20T00:43:02 < Steffanx> Reminds me of this video jadew https://youtu.be/w2ELUlpGm8E
2021-03-20T00:45:46 < jadew> not about this? https://i.gifer.com/31bb.gif
2021-03-20T00:46:22 < jadew> this is the music video, it's really something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
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2021-03-20T01:04:20 < Steffanx> That too ofcourse 
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2021-03-20T02:03:09 < basdb> for using the stlink v2 to program a custom stm32f0 board, what pins are actually fully needed? just SWDIO/CLK/O and NRST i think right?
2021-03-20T02:09:47 < fenugrec> basdb, F0 doesn't have SWO
2021-03-20T02:09:54 < basdb> ohhhh
2021-03-20T02:38:50 < englishman> nrst isn't needed either, but it's really handy
2021-03-20T03:30:06 < qyx> oh rip karlp 
2021-03-20T03:31:11 < englishman> ;(
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2021-03-20T03:33:33 < qyx> https://twitter.com/Vedurstofan
2021-03-20T03:42:24 < basdb> so using the stlink v2 i can just sneaky snake the SWCLK and SWDIO (and ~NRST) to the STM32F0 and be golden like a goose to program?
2021-03-20T03:42:40 < basdb> i'm assuming a lot of things here, such as tying BOOT0 to low (10k to gnd)
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2021-03-20T03:47:52 < qyx> it doesn't matter whats your boot0 level if your target behaves
2021-03-20T03:48:29 < qyx> if it disconnects SWD pins or goes into a low power mode (except sleep), you need NRST
2021-03-20T03:49:10 < qyx> you can connect with SWD even if the bootloader is running with boot0 at H
2021-03-20T03:50:28 < basdb> right on
2021-03-20T03:50:59 < basdb> so for the low power bit, i plan to use a single coin cell for VBAT to keep the RTC ticking away with a 32.768 LSE -- would that be applicable?
2021-03-20T03:51:26 < basdb> all i have on NRST is the recommended decoupling cap for preventing parasitic reset behaviour
2021-03-20T03:54:56 < qyx> I am using the recommended cap, some add another pullup to VDD too
2021-03-20T04:17:29 < karlp> qyx: nah, we've been itching for it
2021-03-20T04:19:34 < karlp> biggest uncertainty is what sort of gases we'll get
2021-03-20T04:19:40 < karlp> then it's openseason for tourism
2021-03-20T04:22:28 < karlp> jpa-: yeha, was all over the place.  part x in a tray? zero stock anywhere, next parts 50 weeks.
2021-03-20T04:23:15 < karlp> same part in a a reel? digikey says zero stock, next parts in 35 weeks.  vendor says zero stock, but 500 parts in 8 weeks, and more periodically
2021-03-20T04:23:55 < karlp> gotta do final check mondya, but looks like we just sub to the "bigger" version and accept it.
2021-03-20T04:24:50 < karlp> jpa-: as for kicost, it's picky, and I felt I had to exit/restart a few times to _properly_ pick up changes,butyeah, it works well.
2021-03-20T04:24:57 < karlp> you have to do all the work though
2021-03-20T04:25:08 < karlp> adding _at least_ a second field with MPN
2021-03-20T04:25:14 < fenugrec> basdb, to state the obvious, if you're using swd/swc for other stuff, then you absolutely need NRST
2021-03-20T04:25:28 < karlp>  but the "spreadsheet view" button makes it about as painles as it could be
2021-03-20T04:25:48 < karlp> no easy way of specifying a list of equivalents though
2021-03-20T04:26:20 < karlp> so if you want to do multi vendort stuff,you need to add not just "MPN" butalso "digikey#" and "mouser#" to make sure you can get all the generic caps anshist
2021-03-20T04:27:01 < karlp> but you can see easily enough, the generated spread sheet shows you what it matched for everythin
2021-03-20T04:27:03 < fenugrec> even just setting the pins to "analog in" to lower consumption, will make SWD not work.
2021-03-20T04:27:55 < fenugrec> (this happens to be the default in cubemx in certain recent versions)
2021-03-20T04:28:45 < karlp>  ventYl | you can put AVRISP together using 0.90 EUR worth of parts and parallel port
2021-03-20T04:28:49 < karlp>  ventYl | you can put AVRISP together using 0.90 EUR worth of parts and parallel port
2021-03-20T04:28:57 < karlp>  ventYl | you can put AVRISP together using 0.90 EUR worth of parts and parallel port
2021-03-20T04:29:02 < karlp> feck
2021-03-20T04:29:06 < fenugrec> "parallel port" , easier said than done heh
2021-03-20T04:29:08 < karlp> wasn't meant ot post three times
2021-03-20T04:29:21 < karlp> but yeah, ventYl do _you_ _actually_ have a parallel port?
2021-03-20T04:31:31 < karlp> qyx:  do you rememeber me sharing a weird graph of a shit load of little earthquakes?
2021-03-20T04:31:40 < karlp> well, its been like that for about 3-4 weeks now.
2021-03-20T04:31:47 < karlp> and we finalyl got some fuckinglava.
2021-03-20T04:34:11 < basdb> fenugrec: by other stuff you mean GPIO? those pins will just be for flashing/programming the micro via stlink
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2021-03-20T04:46:32 < qyx> yeah but only a lazy one
2021-03-20T04:47:06 < qyx> I found some pictures from seismometers now
2021-03-20T04:47:38 < qyx> this tobba girl is also a good source for various pictures https://twitter.com/fencingtobba
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2021-03-20T06:33:11 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a N-MOSFET suggestion for active load?
2021-03-20T06:33:39 < ColdKeyboard> I'm thinking of getting one in TO-220 package and maybe slapping a passive heatsink on it... but I'm not sure what's the best approach. Experiences? :)
2021-03-20T06:48:24 < qyx> I was considering one of the "heat sing enclosures" from fischer elektronik together with one or more TO220 mosfets
2021-03-20T06:48:29 < qyx> *heat sink
2021-03-20T06:49:56 < qyx> https://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/en_GB/cases/M1.05/Combination%20cases/search.xhtml
2021-03-20T06:50:54 < qyx> something like this https://www.fischerelektronik.de/web_fischer/en_GB/cases/M1.05/Combination%20cases/$catalogue/fischerData/PG/KO_R2/search.xhtml
2021-03-20T06:51:07 < qyx> and an arbitrary bottom part from the same family
2021-03-20T06:51:13 < qyx> depending on the space you need inside
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2021-03-20T10:11:00 < ventYl> karlp: I think that one machine still has parallel port. yet might be missing different vital parts such as PSU
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2021-03-20T10:28:20 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-port-RS232-to-USB-2-0-adapter-USB-Serial-DB9-COM-converter-Controller-Card/392896090760      this arrived, now I can plug in all my owons for that SCPI goodness
2021-03-20T10:29:08 < jpa-> those have MCS7840 chip which is great, usb high-speed and 512 byte fifos for each port, and full control lines
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2021-03-20T11:51:09 < Sadale> If I'm driving a passive buzzer with a MOSFET, do I need a current-limiting resistor for that?
2021-03-20T12:23:37 < antto> electromagnetic buzzer?
2021-03-20T12:31:22 < jpa-> i often put a series capacitor
2021-03-20T12:32:16 < antto> aww, do u even have any bass bruh
2021-03-20T12:39:24 < Sadale> Not sure about the type of the buzzer.
2021-03-20T12:40:11 < antto> piezo?
2021-03-20T12:43:20 < Sadale> Not sure if piezo or electromagnetic. The seller didn't say that.
2021-03-20T12:43:30 < Sadale> So what'd be the difference in handling of piezo and electromagnetic?
2021-03-20T12:46:53 < jpa-> piezo does not take DC current
2021-03-20T12:47:13 < jpa-> but needs higher voltage drive, and if you are driving it one-sided, you need a parallel resistor also
2021-03-20T12:47:40 < jpa-> you can determine the type by measuring resistance, piezo will show very large while electromagnetic will be less than 1kohm
2021-03-20T12:56:03 < Sadale> Cool!
2021-03-20T12:59:44 < Sadale> If it's the electromagnetic one, would doing current limiting needed?
2021-03-20T13:00:07 < Sadale> If I understand correctly the piezo one is like a cap. So I guess current limiting probably wouldn't be needed.
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2021-03-20T14:21:54 < fenugrec> ColdKeyboard, go with a TO247, way more beefy than TO220
2021-03-20T14:22:49 < fenugrec> or TO264
2021-03-20T14:31:49 < fenugrec> although some to220 may be quite OK too... quick look in my datasheets, some manage a ~ 1.25-1.5 C/W junction-to-case, vs 5-10 for others
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2021-03-20T14:36:18 < jadew> so... in Romania 1252 people got on the Pfizer waiting list, 647 on Moderna, 529 on AstraZeneca
2021-03-20T14:36:34 < jadew> these numbers are normalized to the number of centers
2021-03-20T14:36:45 < jadew> number of centers for each vaccine
2021-03-20T14:36:57 < jadew> so people trust Pfizer the most
2021-03-20T14:37:07 < jadew> and AstraZeneca almost as much as Moderna
2021-03-20T14:55:01 < jpa-> you can choose? or is that in private medical centers?
2021-03-20T14:57:11 < effractur> well if i could pick i would go for phizer/moderna
2021-03-20T14:57:26 < effractur> but that is just that they currently perform better
2021-03-20T15:26:51 < jadew> jpa-, yeah, you can choose
2021-03-20T15:27:01 < jadew> each vaccination center is locked on a particular vaccine, to avoid mistakes
2021-03-20T15:27:14 < jadew> and which center uses what is public information
2021-03-20T15:27:25 < jadew> so people are choosing based on that
2021-03-20T15:28:17 < jadew> Moderna is similar to Pfizer, but it has more side effects, and I think that's why people are avoiding it
2021-03-20T15:28:55 < jadew> I'm number 1500 in line at the vaccination center that I chose
2021-03-20T15:29:25 < jadew> I hope they use new gloves for each vaccination, so I don't have to tell them to
2021-03-20T15:49:34 < dongs_> apparently there's some side effect to astra that makes your dick fall off
2021-03-20T15:49:56 < dongs_> https://www.wsj.com/articles/scientists-say-they-found-cause-of-blood-clotting-linked-to-astrazeneca-vaccine-11616169108?mod=flipboard
2021-03-20T15:54:03 < mawk> lol
2021-03-20T15:54:45 < mawk> it's only for women don't worry
2021-03-20T15:54:57 < englishman> does Nippon have the Vax yet
2021-03-20T15:55:14 < englishman> they're saying here normal losers like me will get it before july
2021-03-20T15:59:08 < Steffanx> your germophobia is bad isnt it jadew ?
2021-03-20T16:05:55 < mawk> a lot of people discovered themselves a passion for hypochondria with covid Steffanx I think
2021-03-20T16:06:20 < Steffanx> :)
2021-03-20T16:06:42 < Steffanx> but i recall jadew already confirmed his case is bad over a year ago. 
2021-03-20T16:06:55 < Steffanx> *condition
2021-03-20T16:06:58 < Steffanx> whatever
2021-03-20T16:06:59 < Steffanx> english
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2021-03-20T16:24:07 < jadew> Steffanx, I don't think I'm unreasonable
2021-03-20T16:24:57 < jadew> people are more careful now, so I feel much better now than usual
2021-03-20T16:25:31 < Steffanx> i never cared.. until now.
2021-03-20T16:25:38 < Steffanx> and when its all done ill stop caring again
2021-03-20T16:26:47 < jadew> I think I got slightly desensitised also
2021-03-20T16:27:10 < jadew> because of the high intensity of this event, to which I kinda got used to
2021-03-20T16:27:20 < mawk> I discover a shock therapy against germophobia and hypochondria
2021-03-20T16:27:30 < mawk> come make a bootcamp in my basement
2021-03-20T16:28:04 < jadew> mawk, but I don't have a problem with all germs
2021-03-20T16:28:23 < jadew> just the ones from other people in general, because they can make you sick
2021-03-20T16:28:45 < mawk> what's wrong with being sick
2021-03-20T16:28:47 < mawk> you get to skip work
2021-03-20T16:28:49 < mawk> it's all benefit
2021-03-20T16:28:53 < jadew> I work from home
2021-03-20T16:28:56 < jadew> I never skip work
2021-03-20T16:29:05 < mawk> you get to skip your wife then
2021-03-20T16:29:09 < mawk> you say you need fresh air to heal
2021-03-20T16:29:12 < mawk> and you go on a roadtrip
2021-03-20T16:29:24 < jadew> but I like my wife...
2021-03-20T16:29:28 < mawk> for now
2021-03-20T16:29:43 < mawk> I wonder how covid didn't cause more divorces than that
2021-03-20T16:29:50 < jadew> I think it has
2021-03-20T16:30:12 < jadew> I've heard about many couples who discovered they hate eachother
2021-03-20T16:30:15 < mawk> well it has caused a substantial increase in divorces
2021-03-20T16:30:18 < mawk> but it's not enough
2021-03-20T16:31:11 < Steffanx> your wannabee gf is still married mawk ?
2021-03-20T16:31:28 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-03-20T16:31:40 < mawk> she can't divorce
2021-03-20T16:31:44 < mawk> or she gets sent back to cold country
2021-03-20T16:31:48 < Steffanx> yes she can
2021-03-20T16:31:57 < mawk> no
2021-03-20T16:32:09 < mawk> the bad dutch police would expell her
2021-03-20T16:32:21 < mawk> and even if I marry her or whatever she would still have to get back to coldland
2021-03-20T16:32:23 < Steffanx> so she can but it has side effects
2021-03-20T16:32:40 < mawk> minuscule side effects
2021-03-20T16:37:14 < englishman> mawk: https://i.redd.it/3lprpqvhy0z51.jpg
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2021-03-20T17:43:12 < t4nk_freenode> Shipment in letterbox Details Weight: 0.94 kg Dimensions: 36.5 x 7 x 71.5 cm .... my mailman is nothing if not persistent and highly capable!!
2021-03-20T17:49:06 < BrainDamage> mawk: my brother in law is a child psych, and i asked him the same thing when this stared
2021-03-20T17:49:08 < BrainDamage> he said that depending on the reasons behind it, being a germophobe and being ordered to wash your hands frequently can stop it as a knee jerk reaction
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2021-03-20T18:12:12 < basdb> the personal life story arcs really bring this stm32 enthusiast community together *popcorn*
2021-03-20T18:15:49 < Steffanx> lol we have shared quite some time together now, basdb  :)
2021-03-20T18:15:56 < BrainDamage> we have political rants, casual racism and general hate speech too, if that's more your thing
2021-03-20T18:16:11 < BrainDamage> we try to cater to a wide audience
2021-03-20T18:16:47 < Steffanx> are you a true yankee basdb ?
2021-03-20T18:18:11 < basdb> not legally, no
2021-03-20T18:18:22 < basdb> how about yourself Steffanx 
2021-03-20T18:18:35 < Steffanx> im not even in yankeeland.
2021-03-20T18:19:29 < basdb> you could always change that
2021-03-20T18:20:22 < Steffanx> nah
2021-03-20T18:20:56 < qyx> mawk: a cold country? she doesn't live in siberia, does she?
2021-03-20T18:21:29 < qyx> and even a jpa-level cold is ~~ok
2021-03-20T18:33:29 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, the Farce is very strong at this chan
2021-03-20T18:36:42 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/jk4LLDUQ
2021-03-20T18:37:01  * t4nk_freenode goes about his business
2021-03-20T18:37:30 < Laurenceb> relevant copypasta is relevant
2021-03-20T18:40:46 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/fD25HUCJ
2021-03-20T18:41:15 < t4nk_freenode> links don't work!
2021-03-20T18:42:27 < Laurenceb> weird
2021-03-20T18:42:50 < Steffanx> Indeed, no workie
2021-03-20T18:42:50 < t4nk_freenode> well I think it's because you're supposed to click them orsth.. but nah, I don't do that ;)
2021-03-20T18:43:32 < Laurenceb> works4me.jpg
2021-03-20T18:44:16 < t4nk_freenode> hey, I got this thermometer now... so I can check my soldering irons, kewl
2021-03-20T18:44:20 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/1CNENsak
2021-03-20T18:45:16 < t4nk_freenode> I tried it out on the stove... damned thing got red-hot, and now it looks like hell
2021-03-20T18:46:18 < t4nk_freenode> pulled it out @around 800degrees, didn't know a stove got so hot
2021-03-20T18:46:44 < t4nk_freenode> so why don't my aluminium pots melt, that's puzzling.
2021-03-20T18:49:03 < BrainDamage> t4nk_freenode: ir thermometers don't work well on metal surfaces
2021-03-20T18:49:28 < t4nk_freenode> neither does poop ;)
2021-03-20T18:49:31 < BrainDamage> they have an emissivity factor that you're supposed to tweak based off the target
2021-03-20T18:49:43 < t4nk_freenode> I got such a probe thing though
2021-03-20T18:50:22 < BrainDamage> pots don't melt because the food keeps the pot cool
2021-03-20T18:50:33 < qyx> Laurenceb: this was actually a good one
2021-03-20T18:50:47 < BrainDamage> as well as the dissipation towards air
2021-03-20T18:51:03 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, the dissipation must be it somehow
2021-03-20T18:51:35 < BrainDamage> the food containing water also sinks a lot of heat through latent heat of vaporization
2021-03-20T19:00:36 < t4nk_freenode> I do also have such an ir thermometer though, it was a bit disappointing indeed, works best on a very dark surface
2021-03-20T19:02:50 < BrainDamage> try this "fun" test, aim it at the stove, then place some al foil on it, then put oil on the foil
2021-03-20T19:03:25 < BrainDamage> the naked foil should read 20 or so, which is the ceiling temp reflected
2021-03-20T19:04:01 < t4nk_freenode> heh
2021-03-20T19:04:35 < Laurenceb> is there a way to list running applications by ram use on lunix?
2021-03-20T19:04:45 < BrainDamage> top/htop
2021-03-20T19:05:16 < BrainDamage> also ps, but it's not interactive
2021-03-20T19:05:16 < t4nk_freenode> ps_mem shows usage per application
2021-03-20T19:05:18 < Laurenceb> top sorts by cpu use, is there an option to sort my mem?
2021-03-20T19:05:19 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-20T19:05:47 < BrainDamage> yes, you have to select the column to sort
2021-03-20T19:06:10 < BrainDamage> bear in mind there's more than one ram usage indicator, you generally want reesident
2021-03-20T19:06:15 < t4nk_freenode> or cat /proc/meminfo
2021-03-20T19:09:23 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-20T19:09:36 < Laurenceb> whats the key combo to make top sort by ram use?
2021-03-20T19:10:15 < BrainDamage> you can just click on it
2021-03-20T19:10:39 < Laurenceb> wut its a terminal script thingy
2021-03-20T19:11:05 < BrainDamage> terminals have mouse support since ages
2021-03-20T19:11:09 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-03-20T19:11:32 < Laurenceb> doesnt do anything for me
2021-03-20T19:11:56 < BrainDamage> you probably have an old version or your terminal doesn't support it
2021-03-20T19:13:55 < BrainDamage> also, you can jjust use htop
2021-03-20T19:20:17 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-20T19:20:19 < Laurenceb> working now
2021-03-20T19:20:34 < Laurenceb> weird tho, something is using 3.1GB of swap space
2021-03-20T19:20:46 < Laurenceb> maybe swap management is just being broken
2021-03-20T19:20:57 < Laurenceb> as theres nothing to explain what that is
2021-03-20T19:27:56 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/3682/production/_117645931_ecc37773-8c5e-4efb-be19-495a61f06b26.jpg
2021-03-20T19:27:57 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: sort by mem is "M"
2021-03-20T19:28:00 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-20T19:28:22 < Laurenceb> looks like an irc user was captured
2021-03-20T19:30:04 < t4nk_freenode> lol, PaulFertser ... well whaddayaknow, I never knew that ;)
2021-03-20T19:30:34 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: and for each process you can see how much of it is in swap by reading /proc/PID/status
2021-03-20T19:31:03 < PaulFertser> t4nk_freenode: having just 512 MiB RAM on my netbook made me learn it
2021-03-20T19:31:12 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2021-03-20T19:33:30 < BrainDamage> 512k ram
2021-03-20T19:33:32 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: ah, useful
2021-03-20T19:33:55 < BrainDamage> i think my kernel leaks mem
2021-03-20T19:34:11 < BrainDamage> after a few days mem usage reaches 10GB
2021-03-20T19:34:35 < BrainDamage> and sum of processes yields to 1/4th of that
2021-03-20T19:36:00 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: kernel memory is listed in /proc/meminfo , slab allocator
2021-03-20T19:36:54 < Laurenceb> hmm this is awkward
2021-03-20T19:37:08 < Laurenceb> something in there is using 0.5GB swap
2021-03-20T19:37:18 < Laurenceb> but its one of about 100 processes
2021-03-20T19:37:27 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I noticed full Xorg memory (I think I had a leaking video driver) is not visible in "top" but swap space taken was clear from /proc/../status
2021-03-20T19:38:27 < t4nk_freenode> I disabled swap a long time ago
2021-03-20T19:41:30 < Laurenceb> aha found it
2021-03-20T19:41:38 < Laurenceb> octave fltk graph kit
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2021-03-20T19:52:16 < qyx> any audiophile around?
2021-03-20T19:52:53 < qyx> if I wanted to record distant birds, what parameter should I care for?
2021-03-20T19:53:16 < qyx> no beamforming, omnidirectional only
2021-03-20T19:53:58 < qyx> theres a sensitivity, SNR and dynamic range
2021-03-20T19:57:11 < BrainDamage> you want high sensitivity ... provided there's no interfering noises
2021-03-20T19:57:41 < BrainDamage> if there's interfering noises, then you'd need high dyn range ttoo
2021-03-20T19:58:42 < qyx> the sensitivity is around -60 dB for most microphones
2021-03-20T19:58:58 < qyx> so I want to go up to zero?
2021-03-20T19:59:20 < qyx> hm, or maybe the exact opposite
2021-03-20T19:59:20 < antto> no
2021-03-20T19:59:37 < antto> -60dB means quiet
2021-03-20T19:59:45 < antto> -90dB would be even quieter
2021-03-20T19:59:55 < t4nk_freenode> (any chance you could get closer to the birds? ) :b
2021-03-20T20:00:20 < antto> f*ck the birds, they're too tricky
2021-03-20T20:00:25 < qyx> that too
2021-03-20T20:00:27 < antto> here, record this: GAAAA, GAAAA!
2021-03-20T20:00:30 < BrainDamage> sensitivity is ouput voltage/input pressure
2021-03-20T20:00:54 < BrainDamage> so you wan that number get closer to 0
2021-03-20T20:01:23 < BrainDamage> because large negative db means smaller fractions
2021-03-20T20:01:45 < BrainDamage> 10^-1 = 0.1 10^-2 = 0.02, etc
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2021-03-20T20:02:54 < BrainDamage> normally people get around sensitivity problems with reflectors, etc, turning the mic directional
2021-03-20T20:02:55 < qyx> so a mic with, lets say, -40 dB sensitivity and 90 dB dynamic range should be quite good
2021-03-20T20:03:39 < qyx> what about the snr?
2021-03-20T20:03:51 < BrainDamage> how far are they? can you hear them "by ear" ?
2021-03-20T20:04:45 < antto> here's where i'll guess it's not birds ;P~
2021-03-20T20:04:53 < BrainDamage> as rule of thumb, human ears have ~100dB dyn range, but that's in anecoic chambers, when you add background noise, etc, you lose 20-40dB
2021-03-20T20:05:50 < BrainDamage> so if you can hear them by ear, they'll be from 30dB to 70dB or so
2021-03-20T20:06:00 < BrainDamage> 70 would be pretty loud birds
2021-03-20T20:06:11 < BrainDamage> and near you
2021-03-20T20:06:12 < antto> GAAAA, GAAA!
2021-03-20T20:06:16 < antto> like me
2021-03-20T20:06:33 < BrainDamage> so 40dB SNR should suffice
2021-03-20T20:06:56 < BrainDamage> which is ok with ~every mic
2021-03-20T20:07:01 < qyx> so it looks like anything actually suffices
2021-03-20T20:07:24 < BrainDamage> yup
2021-03-20T20:07:27 < antto> you gotta have some amplifier for the mic
2021-03-20T20:07:34 < qyx> I want to avoid that
2021-03-20T20:08:05 < qyx> so either a pdm mic, i2s mic, or an analol one with diff output directly digitised with a audio adc
2021-03-20T20:10:11 < basdb> for 5V tolerant IO usage, placing a 3.3V zener across VCC (5v) and the LDO (3.3v) is recommended. however, the ANs make a vague remark as to the series resistor with the zener -- is this just to current limit to what the zener can handle or what?
2021-03-20T20:13:25 < qyx> what zener? I don't get it
2021-03-20T20:13:45 < qyx> BrainDamage: so something like that is well above the requirements https://invensense.tdk.com/products/analog/ics-40720/
2021-03-20T20:13:57 < qyx> 285 uA at 1V6 is manageable
2021-03-20T20:14:59 < basdb> qyx: see here https://i.imgur.com/McOmvYj.png from ST's slide deck: http://www.emcu.eu/000/STM32_5VtolerantIO.pdf
2021-03-20T20:15:57 < qyx> ICS-40730 is even better and still quite cheap
2021-03-20T20:16:00 < BrainDamage> qyx: looks good
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2021-03-20T20:17:54 < BrainDamage> basdb: zeners like all diodes have an exp i-v relation, once the diode's on, unless something takes up the extra voltage the current would snowball to blow it
2021-03-20T20:22:05 < BrainDamage> remeber tho that if a spike gets ever on the 5V that reaches 3+3.3V=6v, because of the zener, it'll flow into the 3v rail ... which I'm not sure it's a good thing
2021-03-20T20:22:31 < BrainDamage> sorry, 3.3V+3.3V=6.6V
2021-03-20T20:25:49 < basdb> hmm adequate point, all the 5V tolerant (USB powered) pin is doing is setting a ~SHDN/UVLO on a boost controller with a voltage threshold of ~1.2V so this being sinking from a pull up on VCC (5V) is not required
2021-03-20T20:25:58 < basdb> i've switched that to the 3.3V rail, should be dandy now
2021-03-20T20:26:51 < qyx> I have never seen such thing tbh
2021-03-20T20:27:31 < BrainDamage> much more sane would be a zener or a tvs diode towards gnd
2021-03-20T20:27:56 < BrainDamage> because like that, it transmits spikes and protects the ldo
2021-03-20T20:28:30 < BrainDamage> while you want the opposite, worst case sacrifice the ldo/zener, and block any spike at the input
2021-03-20T20:30:02 < basdb> im just adding simple input filtering with a ferrite bead, though i could add that, too
2021-03-20T20:30:22 < basdb> im wondering if i should bother keeping a PMOS for reverse input protection given it's a USBC receptacle
2021-03-20T20:30:58 < englishman> there are a few all-in-one solutions for that
2021-03-20T20:31:12 < basdb> do tell englishman 
2021-03-20T20:31:14 < englishman> with usbC having overvoltage protection is nice too
2021-03-20T20:31:34 < englishman> in case your client has some chink usbC charger that yolos 20V down the pipe
2021-03-20T20:31:48 < basdb> i won't be using PD but if for whatever reason the supply is above 5V then that 3.3 LDO will be cranking that's for sure
2021-03-20T20:31:56 < basdb> yeah
2021-03-20T20:32:12 < basdb> the boost converter will be happy to take up to 20V though
2021-03-20T20:32:51 < basdb> actually with my layout maybe only 16V
2021-03-20T20:32:55 < basdb> keep talking englishman :)
2021-03-20T20:33:41 < englishman> not much to say. check out the catalogs of TI, microchip, diodes, nxp etc
2021-03-20T20:34:11 < englishman> i think on small stuff i just put the cc pulldowns and some integrated esd/ovp/ocp/uvp chip
2021-03-20T20:35:20 < englishman> if you use the cc lines, 20V protection on the cc lines can be important
2021-03-20T20:37:38 < jpa-> basdb: the point of that zener diode is that the 5V tolerant IO aren't 5V tolerant if VDD is below 1V; so the zener ensures that VDD rises fast enough
2021-03-20T20:38:57 < jpa-> i usually just have series resistors on 5V inputs, that lets the input diodes limit the voltage
2021-03-20T20:48:27 < Laurenceb> hmm
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2021-03-20T20:48:36  * Laurenceb is designing something with usb-c right now
2021-03-20T20:48:49 < Laurenceb> I need isolation tho
2021-03-20T20:49:03 < Laurenceb> dunno how much of a risk getting 20V really is?
2021-03-20T20:49:29 < effractur> quite low
2021-03-20T20:49:37 < effractur> well
2021-03-20T20:49:43 < effractur> some broken macbooks did that
2021-03-20T20:50:06 < effractur> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8223635
2021-03-20T20:50:09 < effractur> so it does happen
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2021-03-20T20:50:38 < Laurenceb> wew
2021-03-20T20:50:55 < effractur> its quite a common failure mode on a series of macbooks
2021-03-20T20:51:01 < Laurenceb> I actually need 20V, so maybe it would help
2021-03-20T20:51:11 < Laurenceb> but I need +-10V with low noise
2021-03-20T20:51:15 < effractur> well slap a CC controller on there en go
2021-03-20T20:51:22 < effractur> the usb-PD stuff thingy
2021-03-20T20:51:34 < Laurenceb> and isolated, so my plan was a +-12V isolated smps from Traco
2021-03-20T20:51:41 < Laurenceb> then ldo to +-10V
2021-03-20T20:52:49 < Laurenceb> https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/whiteness-is-a-pandemic-1846494770
2021-03-20T20:52:53 < Laurenceb> >my mum
2021-03-20T20:52:58 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2021-03-20T21:02:16 < jpa-> in a similar thing, i put 5V isolator, and then R1283B to get +-12V, then 10µF + ferrite + 10µF + ferrite + 10µF and it is nice and low-noise.. some of the isolated transformers had some silly 50kHz switching frequency and huge ripple
2021-03-20T21:02:30 < jpa-> though i guess an LDO with good PSRR would handle it
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2021-03-20T21:23:58 < Laurenceb> yeah I'll prob do that + ldo
2021-03-20T21:24:01 < Laurenceb> https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jul/06/upward-thrusting-buildings-ejaculating-cities-sexist-leslie-kern-phallic-feminist-city-toxic-masculinity
2021-03-20T21:32:53 < bitmask> hmm, how do you choose a ferrite bead to filter switcher harmonics?
2021-03-20T21:59:28 < Laurenceb> using spice tbh
2021-03-20T21:59:34 < Laurenceb> ltspice
2021-03-20T22:04:38 < mouseghost> :?
2021-03-20T22:25:23 < fenugrec> Found out a cool feature of cubeide + mx : on one colleague<s machine, regenerating code within cube deletes all my files in Src/
2021-03-20T22:25:35 < Steffanx> haha
2021-03-20T22:25:55 < Steffanx> its fucky anyway, it also regenerates library files even when you modified them because theyre bugged
2021-03-20T22:26:16 < fenugrec> yea, I could live with that, but deleting files ? *all* the files ?? that's insane
2021-03-20T22:26:26 < qyx> poor you
2021-03-20T22:26:37 < Steffanx> you you cannot live with that. it should not touch files you touched without asking
2021-03-20T22:26:45 < Steffanx> not ever
2021-03-20T22:27:23 < fenugrec> yes, but failing that, a compromise would be workable. Good thing everything's tracked with git
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2021-03-20T22:41:35 < jadew> lol Laurenceb, that's one dumb article
2021-03-20T22:42:29 < jadew> seems to me like feminists are continuously thinking about dick
2021-03-20T22:45:55 < jadew> I didn't read the whole thing, but it sounds to me like the author is making a connection between buildings and domestic violence
2021-03-20T22:54:59 < BrainDamage> I think the term grievance studies fits well
2021-03-20T22:55:37 < BrainDamage> there is an agst sentiment, but it's unfocuse and it gets misdirected into that babble
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2021-03-20T23:06:29 < qyx> a sinle ENOB is ~6.1 dB of dynamic range, isn't it?
2021-03-20T23:09:29 < BrainDamage> 6.02
2021-03-20T23:10:22 < BrainDamage> 20log10(2)
2021-03-20T23:11:11 < BrainDamage> that assumes uniform quantizaion error tho, so if it's sigma delta, your bets are off
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2021-03-20T23:18:23 < qyx> no, I am thinking about using the internal ADC with oversamplin
2021-03-20T23:20:19 < qyx> ENOB 10.9 differential, meh
2021-03-20T23:20:27 < BrainDamage> nbits = n + 0.5 log2(Fck/Fnyquistt)
2021-03-20T23:21:26 < qyx> the adc is going to be the limiting factor
2021-03-20T23:22:02 < qyx> but consumes less than 100 uA
2021-03-20T23:22:17 < qyx> which is way less than any microphone + audio adc combo
2021-03-20T23:22:23 < qyx> even elss than a PDM digital mic
2021-03-20T23:23:28 < qyx> I could get 2 bits with 16x oversampling, still reasonable consumption
2021-03-20T23:39:10 < mouseghost> how do you add "empty" mcu to kicad?
2021-03-20T23:39:15 < mouseghost> and then add pins are required?
2021-03-20T23:51:58 < Laurenceb> fenugrec: yeah I just used cobemx once then copypasta the code out to a work area
2021-03-20T23:52:54 < fenugrec> "empty" ? I guess you could split your symbols into "units" like opamps and logic gates, each with a block of IO pins
2021-03-20T23:53:12 < fenugrec> but I've never seen that in kicad
2021-03-20T23:53:30 < fenugrec> in any case there's #kicad
2021-03-20T23:56:08 < qyx> reposting https://v.redd.it/tvj3vodux7o61
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 21 2021
2021-03-21T00:02:40 < englishman> doesn't ENOB have its own definition based on resolution
2021-03-21T00:02:41 < englishman> https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/raqs/raq-issue-90.html#
2021-03-21T00:02:58 < englishman> 6.02 ok yeah
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2021-03-21T15:33:57 < Laurenceb> attn jpa-:  https://files.catbox.moe/vq7a90.png
2021-03-21T15:34:19 < Laurenceb> solution to muh timing issues from the other day
2021-03-21T15:34:45 < Laurenceb> doesnt quite meet USB2.0 spec as it can only handle +-400ppm, but thats almost certainly good enough...
2021-03-21T15:35:05 < tct> Laurenceb, what tool what this illustration created with?
2021-03-21T15:35:16 < Laurenceb> dia
2021-03-21T15:35:28 < tct> how is dia doing these days?
2021-03-21T15:35:50 < Laurenceb> needs more development :(
2021-03-21T15:36:07 < tct> is there at least a new release or are we still stuck with the 2014? 
2021-03-21T15:36:08 < Laurenceb> but its good enough for basic diagrams, and very fast to do basic stuff
2021-03-21T15:36:33 < Laurenceb> dia 0.97 here :(
2021-03-21T15:36:44 < Laurenceb> it needs proper rotation support
2021-03-21T15:36:46 < effractur> i just use tikz 
2021-03-21T15:36:57 < Steffanx> Who needs something else than draw.io?
2021-03-21T15:38:01 < tct> effractur, you seriously create flowcharts and stuff with tikz?
2021-03-21T15:38:08 < effractur> tct: yes
2021-03-21T15:38:18 < tct> effractur, then you must not have a lot of things going on in your life ;p
2021-03-21T15:39:12 < effractur> for simple flowcharts its quite trivial
2021-03-21T15:39:27 < Steffanx> now make that thing Laurenceb  showed effractur  ;)
2021-03-21T15:39:40 < tct> Steffanx, I assume that doesn't really qualify as simple.
2021-03-21T15:39:47 < tct> also not as a flowchart :p
2021-03-21T15:39:47 < Steffanx> but im not sure if that matters, its pretty unreadable unready
2021-03-21T15:40:00 < effractur> i mena that is just some boxes +arrows
2021-03-21T15:40:04 < effractur> so not that complicated
2021-03-21T15:40:20 < tct> sounds like something that elon would say
2021-03-21T15:40:46 < tct> and then 10 years laters we're stuck with him inventing the tunnel to drive cars through them (cars with wheels!)
2021-03-21T15:41:14 < Steffanx> did you know blaxter is also working on hyperloops?
2021-03-21T15:41:31 < tct> he mentioned it but I didn't get any information as to what exactly he's doing, which project/team etc.
2021-03-21T15:41:46 < tct> I don't mind people working on hyperloop concepts btw.
2021-03-21T15:41:48 < effractur> https://texample.net/tikz/examples/android/
2021-03-21T15:41:49 < tct> honestly interested.
2021-03-21T15:41:52 < effractur> is for example a nic exaple
2021-03-21T15:41:59 < effractur> that is quite trivial 
2021-03-21T15:42:03 < effractur> and easy to understand
2021-03-21T15:42:15 < ventYl> ah dia
2021-03-21T15:42:21 < tct> effractur, any reason to prefer tkiz over graphviz? (other than latex "nativeness")?
2021-03-21T15:42:37 < ventYl> Laurenceb: that diagram above is quite an achievement
2021-03-21T15:42:50 < tct> effractur, the syntax of the example you're showing seems very similar to graphviz (not that that is a surprise)
2021-03-21T15:43:06 < ventYl> i wanted to autogenerate diagrams for autosar modules out of their software-component description... well, nope
2021-03-21T15:43:12 < Steffanx> I always though LaTeX people where all: DONT CARE ABOUT THE LAYOUT AND SHIT. but what are all those sizes doing there? 5cm, 3cm :D
2021-03-21T15:43:25 < ventYl> it has disjunctive set of features. if you do one, then another is silently broken
2021-03-21T15:43:35 < Steffanx> yshift :O
2021-03-21T15:43:43 < Steffanx> im dissapointed.
2021-03-21T15:44:09 < effractur> Steffanx: well you can also use perentages 
2021-03-21T15:44:44 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: it's not like don't care about layout, rather in latex layout is offloaded to templates
2021-03-21T15:44:49 < Steffanx> I bet you still do: Write "code", generate image... "oh not entirely right"  > Start manually fixing it.
2021-03-21T15:46:01 < BrainDamage> the real pain in the ass of latex is the compiler's error parser is not recursive
2021-03-21T15:46:36 < BrainDamage> if you write eg an equation block, any error gets delocalized to the whole block
2021-03-21T15:47:08 < BrainDamage> so one typo forces you to manually copypaste things in/out to find the faulty parts ... in 2020
2021-03-21T15:47:15 < Steffanx> :)
2021-03-21T15:48:12 < effractur> BrainDamage: well no you can issue the deconstruct parts to localize the error but that also depens on the engine you use
2021-03-21T15:52:08 < fenugrec> vague memories from using lyx (some latex wrapper as I recall) some 10y ago was "this ain't so bad compared to wrestling MS Turd"
2021-03-21T15:52:47 < Steffanx> i hardly ever wrestle with "ms turd"
2021-03-21T15:53:39 < fenugrec> you would if you collaboratively work with people who don't know how to use word properly and drop 20 newlines to get proper page breaks etc
2021-03-21T15:54:26 < Steffanx> im pretty sure they would fuck up LaTeX as well
2021-03-21T15:56:02 < fenugrec> well in lyx you don't actually write any latex for most stuff
2021-03-21T16:01:20 < jpa-> Laurenceb: your diagram looks the same as https://i.imgur.com/pTEoKGK.jpeg
2021-03-21T16:01:29 < Steffanx> haha
2021-03-21T16:03:36 < Steffanx> Why does Laurenceb even want 44.1 kHz is not oidio is it?
2021-03-21T16:11:10 < tct> jpa-, wtf is that?
2021-03-21T16:11:37 < jpa-> tct: the invisible hand
2021-03-21T16:12:00 < jpa-> don't worry, it is not the secret ugfx architecture diagram, i wouldn't leak that to the public
2021-03-21T16:12:37 < tct> jpa-, do you think that there will ever be a time where the two of us can have a conversation without you relating most things to ugfx? :p
2021-03-21T16:12:57 < jpa-> tct: yeah, when you have a baby we can talk about shitty diapers
2021-03-21T16:13:13 < jpa-> like the ones that leak in the middle of the night, or the ones that are just covered in shit
2021-03-21T16:15:02 < BrainDamage> or you could get a diaper fetish and skip the baby
2021-03-21T16:29:58 < Laurenceb> is the ST ufx thing the same as ugfx?
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2021-03-21T16:31:28 < Laurenceb> doesnt look like it but they seem to have copied names
2021-03-21T16:31:46 < Laurenceb> jpa-: >using jpeg for graphics
2021-03-21T16:31:47 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-03-21T16:31:48 < tct> Laurenceb, nah, that is TouchGFX. They stole a lot of algorithms and the logo.
2021-03-21T16:31:58 < Laurenceb> heh really?
2021-03-21T16:32:01 < tct> yeah
2021-03-21T16:32:07 < Laurenceb> you didnt collaborate with them?
2021-03-21T16:32:07 < tct> gave up on the legal battle
2021-03-21T16:32:09 < tct> no
2021-03-21T16:32:10 < Laurenceb> wew
2021-03-21T16:32:13 < Laurenceb> crazy
2021-03-21T16:32:29 < tct> they stole several things and changed their logo to the more-ugfx like logo once uGFX became a commercially popular option
2021-03-21T16:32:49 < Laurenceb> yeah I remember their previous emwin thing
2021-03-21T16:32:54 < tct> interestingly we have several customers a month that switch from touchgfx to ugfx so I guess not everybody is happy with it
2021-03-21T16:32:58 < Laurenceb> I thought their new thing looked like ugfx
2021-03-21T16:33:34 < Laurenceb> shows why its important to have lawyers I guess :(
2021-03-21T16:33:36 < Steffanx> tct imho the logo isnt THAT similar and isnt doing the X thing a quite common thing in the gfx world?
2021-03-21T16:34:22 < Steffanx> It doesnt even include the μ
2021-03-21T16:35:05 < Laurenceb> hmm when I looked through it the first thing I thought of was ugfx
2021-03-21T16:35:17 < Laurenceb> its clearly at least partially cloneware
2021-03-21T16:35:29 < Steffanx> Then you didnt look at the code really. Because one is mainly c++ and the other 
2021-03-21T16:35:29 < Steffanx> c
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2021-03-21T16:37:02 < Steffanx> At least lvgl did the font converter page better tct  https://lvgl.io/tools/fontconverter vs https://ugfx.io/font-converter :P
2021-03-21T16:38:38 < Steffanx> is your studio still alive btw?
2021-03-21T17:00:57 < Steffanx> i guess that is a "no not really"  
2021-03-21T17:17:54 < englishman> he calls it a dojo
2021-03-21T17:18:22 < Steffanx> no, i mean the graphical ugfx editor he was working on.
2021-03-21T17:19:35 < Steffanx> touchgfx has it,  and i see lvgl is coming with something
2021-03-21T17:20:01 < Steffanx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrSkzbuuGaw like that
2021-03-21T17:20:01 < fenugrec> wut, 2$ for 4L pcb on jlc
2021-03-21T17:20:39 < Steffanx> 5x5cm yeah.
2021-03-21T17:21:03 < Steffanx> Not that $8 for 10x10 is bad
2021-03-21T17:21:14 < fenugrec> true
2021-03-21T17:22:13 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ew8N20tW8AEhnjN?format=jpg&name=900x900
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2021-03-21T17:35:28 < Laurenceb> anyone know how usb audio class handles sample rates that arent integer factor of 1khz?
2021-03-21T17:35:45 < Laurenceb> is the variable packet length handled by the device or by the host?
2021-03-21T17:37:52 < effractur> why would that mater?
2021-03-21T17:39:05 < effractur> https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/audio10.pdf but feel free to check the spec :P
2021-03-21T17:40:28 < Laurenceb> effractur: bacause I want to know if I have to write the dithering logic
2021-03-21T17:40:34 < Laurenceb> or can just read a request..
2021-03-21T17:40:50 < qyx> jpa-'s wife https://www.instagram.com/p/CMmye93BqIZ/?fbclid=IwAR3qwqxLw6xk-ao85DQ_6ygrZEOQzqeMcFnjyhcipc_-RpBsA-syNS7kfu8
2021-03-21T17:41:35 < jpa-> looks swedish
2021-03-21T17:41:37 < Steffanx> Aah, she's from Sweden? Nice.
2021-03-21T17:41:59 < qyx> sorry, scandinavia, same
2021-03-21T17:42:39 < Steffanx> qyx cannot be angry again when i say you're from cz :P
2021-03-21T17:43:06 < qyx> idk even who she is
2021-03-21T17:43:21 < jpa-> finland is only part of scandinavia according to people outside scandinavia
2021-03-21T17:43:22 < Steffanx> how did you find this IG page?
2021-03-21T17:44:16 < qyx> my sister sent me
2021-03-21T17:45:17 < qyx> and theres nobody from sweden afaik
2021-03-21T17:45:32 < qyx> and zyp is too much to the south
2021-03-21T17:45:34 < qyx> so sorry jpa- 
2021-03-21T17:46:26 < jpa-> we should get freakuency to talk more often
2021-03-21T17:47:59 < Steffanx> is jpa-  talking urban dictionary? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=freakuency
2021-03-21T17:48:34 < jpa-> seems to be only .se nick here
2021-03-21T17:49:03 < ventYl> qyx isn't that far from czechia. one wrong turn and 30 minutes of not paying attention and he crosses the border
2021-03-21T17:49:27 < Steffanx> Does that happen often to him?
2021-03-21T18:02:08 < Laurenceb> effractur: I cant find the answer in that spec :(
2021-03-21T18:02:15 < Laurenceb> guess its a more fundamental question
2021-03-21T18:02:35 < effractur> Laurenceb: so what i found is at least that some IC's will do variable data length packets
2021-03-21T18:02:46 < effractur> so i guess its implementation dependant
2021-03-21T18:02:54 < Laurenceb> well they have to
2021-03-21T18:02:55 < effractur> but the data packet its self has a length
2021-03-21T18:03:05 < Laurenceb> but the question is how is it controlled
2021-03-21T18:03:38 < effractur> well so the IC will send every X ms a packet so whats in the buffers i guess
2021-03-21T18:03:46 < Laurenceb> https://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/ums_g_in.gif
2021-03-21T18:03:48 < effractur> but i guess the onyl way is to test it
2021-03-21T18:03:55 < Laurenceb> ^looks like it has to be managed by the device
2021-03-21T18:03:57 < effractur> and capture it with wireshark
2021-03-21T18:04:36 < effractur> wdym with device controlled? the host is just plz give me data
2021-03-21T18:05:21 < Laurenceb> yeah, the device must have to alternate the packet lengths by itself
2021-03-21T18:05:30 < effractur> yea
2021-03-21T18:05:32 < englishman> if that was jpa's wife this must be jpa https://streamable.com/69k5fj
2021-03-21T18:05:36 < Laurenceb> that would explain why _max_packet length is in the descriptor
2021-03-21T18:06:01 < Laurenceb> so the host can budget for the max length when allocating bandwidth
2021-03-21T18:06:39 < Laurenceb> weird, I cant see the DATA0/1 stuff in the st cubemx codez...
2021-03-21T18:06:40 < effractur> and if the max length does not fit the required sample rate/channel count?
2021-03-21T18:07:01 < Laurenceb> lol that would be a malicious usb device
2021-03-21T18:07:18 < Laurenceb> max length is supposed to be declared accurately by the device
2021-03-21T18:07:20 < effractur> ooh the device states the max packet length
2021-03-21T18:07:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-21T18:08:17 < Laurenceb> heh 24bit audio is padded up to 32bit
2021-03-21T18:08:49 < effractur> sound logical
2021-03-21T18:08:49 < Laurenceb> guess it makes the buffer handling a little easier
2021-03-21T18:09:20 < effractur> loading etc at 24bit offsets is quite a mess
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2021-03-21T18:13:33 < jpa-> data0/data1 is handled by usb peripheral
2021-03-21T18:14:05 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-21T18:14:17 < Laurenceb> how does the host know how many bytes are in a data packet?
2021-03-21T18:14:47 < jpa-> the packet has a single-ended-0 terminator
2021-03-21T18:15:59 < Laurenceb> ah and then it goes back to extract the CRC?
2021-03-21T18:16:12 < jpa-> yeah
2021-03-21T18:16:24 < Laurenceb> ah cool
2021-03-21T18:16:39 < Laurenceb> so I just have to send an extra sample every ten frames for 44.1ksps
2021-03-21T18:17:34 < Laurenceb> usb is really quite simple considering all the features :D
2021-03-21T18:19:00 < jpa-> usb full-speed is simple
2021-03-21T18:19:06 < jpa-> high-speed is less simple
2021-03-21T18:19:12 < jpa-> superspeed is even more complex
2021-03-21T18:19:34 < jpa-> USB 4.0 reverts to using plain old USART, because it is simpler
2021-03-21T18:20:16 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-21T18:22:27 < Steffanx> When you sync your ADC sampling to USB, cant you just send what you have ready? Or is that too simple Laurenceb ?
2021-03-21T18:23:00 < Laurenceb> it might vary by >1sample
2021-03-21T18:23:08 < Laurenceb> its unclear if that is allowed
2021-03-21T18:24:06 < Laurenceb> counting to ten isnt hard :P
2021-03-21T18:26:54 < Steffanx> if +1 is allowed, but +2 isnt.. that would have been documented for sure.
2021-03-21T19:27:50 < basdb> i'm stumped on trying to find a decent half bridge to allow making a "pseudo" inverter to drive an NE-2 neon bulb, most all won't happily work with 3.3V supply that i know of for properly setting the high side up to the required ~170V
2021-03-21T19:28:18 < basdb> maybe another solution to my problem here that I don't see
2021-03-21T19:33:44 < basdb> maybe a matched p-channel and n-channel mosfet, then drive it with an n-channel mosfet from the stm32
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2021-03-21T20:28:31 < basdb> i think this would work: https://i.imgur.com/nMJZ7xC.png
2021-03-21T20:31:55 < basdb> now just to think on the charge/discharge time of the gates
2021-03-21T20:35:54 < BrainDamage> that's exactly the problem, most are designed with high power in mind
2021-03-21T20:36:16 < BrainDamage> so they need to pump large currents in the gates to switch them fast
2021-03-21T20:36:52 < BrainDamage> otherwise the mos remains in quadratic region for too long and it melts
2021-03-21T20:37:23 < BrainDamage> but your NE lamp willl happily work with douzens of uA, so the problem doesn't exist for you
2021-03-21T20:38:27 < BrainDamage> are you sure tho that the lamp's wear is worth the extra complexity?
2021-03-21T20:39:01 < BrainDamage> you could just drive it with one polarity, let one electrode wear faster, and make the circuit much much simpler
2021-03-21T20:42:03 < basdb> but i want the two lights on at the same time :(
2021-03-21T20:42:10 < basdb> the asymmetry drives me mental
2021-03-21T20:42:16 < BrainDamage> alternatively, add a matching inductor and drive it at resonance
2021-03-21T20:42:29 < basdb> supposedly this NE-2U A3C is happiest around 1mA
2021-03-21T20:42:47 < basdb> it flickers / fails to turn fully on at 400uA
2021-03-21T20:45:06 < BrainDamage> even then, that's sub-W, no power dissipation issues
2021-03-21T20:45:34 < basdb> yeah
2021-03-21T20:47:49 < basdb> discrete half bridge this way is easier than trying to futz with a gate driver at this high voltage
2021-03-21T20:48:20 < basdb> but yeah the charge/discharge time of the gates is questionable, i think at 60Hz I can just drag out the dead time of TIM1 enough to make it happy
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2021-03-21T20:57:25 < basdb> at a gate capacitance of ~110pF(max), with a series resistance of 10k thats a t of ~1.1uS at 5 time constants 5.5uS for roughly full gate discharge i think
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2021-03-21T21:00:43 < basdb> so that tells me the dead time i need to have, which at 60Hz should be fairly doable depending on how i can set the dividers/prescalers for TIM1
2021-03-21T21:01:20 < basdb> i think that sounds right at least
2021-03-21T21:03:21 < basdb> or would the dead time be double that to allow both to fully charge/discharge
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2021-03-21T22:14:07 < Laurenceb> oh yeah
2021-03-21T22:14:08 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w07YKq8fVJM
2021-03-21T22:14:13 < Laurenceb> shit getting real
2021-03-21T22:16:42 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lGsoblwFWw
2021-03-21T22:17:05 < Laurenceb> lol cameraman died
2021-03-21T22:17:12 < Laurenceb> I think hes dead m8
2021-03-21T22:17:45 < Laurenceb> lol @ guy in the chair giving live commentry
2021-03-21T22:17:54 < Laurenceb> riot as spectator sport
2021-03-21T22:20:55 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-03-21T22:21:05 < Laurenceb> police riot van annihilated 
2021-03-21T22:21:22 < Laurenceb> this is better than football
2021-03-21T22:21:50 < Laurenceb> >>28511
2021-03-21T22:21:50 < Laurenceb> >mostly peaceful protests
2021-03-21T22:21:52 < Laurenceb> kekking
2021-03-21T22:28:57 < BrainDamage> peaceful protests are a misnomer anyway
2021-03-21T22:29:22 < BrainDamage> they just mean that the violence is from the state to the citizens
2021-03-21T22:29:35 < BrainDamage> instead of citizens vs citizens or citizens vs state
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--- Day changed Mon Mar 22 2021
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2021-03-22T01:28:16 < kakium69> what are they protesting?
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2021-03-22T01:39:28 < Steffanx> Lack of kakium69 activity 
2021-03-22T01:40:02 < kakium69> what old movie we should see tonight?
2021-03-22T01:41:03 -!- Ad0 [~Ad0@93.124.245.194] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-22T01:41:21 < kakium69> yaiks.. lost boys - cambodia
2021-03-22T01:42:14 < kakium69> one of the cast or subjects to say legit dies
2021-03-22T01:42:38 < Steffanx> Old movie?
2021-03-22T01:42:45 < kakium69> new finnish movie
2021-03-22T01:43:28 < kakium69> it's like episode 2 of Reindeerspotting
2021-03-22T01:44:05 < kakium69> but this time they have moneys from the first movie and they go to cambodia
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2021-03-22T02:41:39 < kakium69> Hitman's Bodyguard
2021-03-22T02:42:05 < kakium69> I'll try that one.. I feel like I have seen it though
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2021-03-22T04:49:48 < basdb> for calculating HSEs external resistor i'm kind of stumped by what a good value is, i keep coming up with ~2kohm which seems ludicrously high
2021-03-22T05:07:59 < bitmask> any reason this cant be used with 6V primary?
2021-03-22T05:07:59 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Wurth-Elektronik/750315371?qs=KdTYp8tcPgkuO62q4xWvAg%3D%3D
2021-03-22T05:14:18 < basdb> following STs AN2867 results in the wildest oscillator design i've ever had: https://i.imgur.com/l82Eean.png
2021-03-22T05:14:42 < basdb> anyone think this is really necessary?
2021-03-22T05:16:21 < qyx> HSE external resistor?
2021-03-22T05:16:24 < qyx> nobody uses that
2021-03-22T05:17:11 < basdb> but but muh application note
2021-03-22T05:17:50 < basdb> wait why am i using an HSE
2021-03-22T05:18:03 < basdb> isn't there an internal poopy HSI on the stm32f0?
2021-03-22T05:18:36 < basdb> yeah there's an internal HSI why am I bothering with an external one when I don't need dead accurate timing for that
2021-03-22T05:18:47 < basdb> i only really care about the LSE for the RTC to be dead on
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2021-03-22T08:15:57 < jpa-> basdb: if you want LSE to be dead on, you are better off using TCXO for it
2021-03-22T08:18:50 < jpa-> basdb: also note that AN2867 says "If the power dissipated in the selected quartz is lower than the drive level specified by the crystal manufacturer, the insertion of R Ext is not recommended and its value is then 0."   -  which is true unless you source your crystals from the same place as karlp ;)
2021-03-22T08:24:33 < qyx> TG3541 is my favourite
2021-03-22T08:41:29 < jpa-> https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/21/renesas_fire/    so now that STM32s are out of stock, we are going to run out of 8051s also
2021-03-22T08:48:16 < qyx> isnt it old
2021-03-22T08:48:24 < qyx> or is that another fire?
2021-03-22T08:49:38 < jpa-> i don't know, i just copypaste links when i'm not busy copypasting code
2021-03-22T08:49:55 < jpa-> apparently it occurred on friday
2021-03-22T08:50:00 < qyx> one would say they have bigger and more redundant facilities
2021-03-22T08:50:16 < qyx> and not that a single fire causes a noticeable shortage
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2021-03-22T09:53:11 < jadew> yey, got scheduled for vaccination
2021-03-22T09:57:30 < Steffanx> Farewell jadew
2021-03-22T09:57:56 < jadew> farewell!
2021-03-22T10:14:16 < qyx> are you 60+?
2021-03-22T10:14:54 < jadew> it's open for everyone now
2021-03-22T10:14:57 < jadew> phase 3
2021-03-22T10:15:47 < qyx> afaik we are at phase 3 too
2021-03-22T10:15:55 < qyx> but we have 11 or so
2021-03-22T10:16:07 < jadew> hah
2021-03-22T10:16:13 < jadew> just 3 here
2021-03-22T10:16:29 < qyx> or we are at 6? idk actually, it is too hard to follow
2021-03-22T10:17:49 < jadew> here it was phase 1: medical personnel and pharmacists
2021-03-22T10:18:06 < jadew> phase 2: old people and people with high risk
2021-03-22T10:18:14 < jadew> phase 3: everyone else
2021-03-22T10:19:27 < jadew> my wife is already planning the vacation
2021-03-22T10:20:24 < jpa-> but how can you get out of the bunker to get vaccinated before you have been vaccinated?
2021-03-22T10:21:22 < jadew> jpa-, well, I actually do go out without any worries
2021-03-22T10:21:35 < jadew> I don't even wear a mask, even tho it's mandatory everywhere
2021-03-22T10:22:30 < jadew> I'm not insane, and now I have more information, so I loosened some of the precautions
2021-03-22T10:23:09 < jpa-> what information have you now? i haven't found a reason to loosen precautions
2021-03-22T10:23:19 -!- rene_dev_21566 [~rene_dev_@87.137.77.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-03-22T10:23:41 < jadew> doesn't spread very easy outside
2021-03-22T10:24:11 < jpa-> ah, yeah, around here masks are recommended only indoors
2021-03-22T10:24:20 < jadew> doesn't spread very easy via other objects
2021-03-22T10:24:49 < qyx> may I safely touch my parcels?
2021-03-22T10:24:51 < jadew> and venting a room diminishes the odds of contacting it quite a bit
2021-03-22T10:25:34 < jadew> qyx, there's about as much of a chance you get covid from them as it is to get the flu
2021-03-22T10:25:37 < jadew> so.. not much
2021-03-22T10:25:43 < jadew> it's not inexistent, but very low
2021-03-22T10:25:56 < jadew> and virtually 0 for getting covid from china
2021-03-22T10:26:09 < jadew> you might get it from the courier tho, if he just wiped his nose with his bare hand
2021-03-22T10:26:27 < benishor> better just clean the parcels
2021-03-22T10:27:19 < benishor> likewise for the stuff you buy like groceries and such
2021-03-22T10:27:22 < benishor> and a mask is absolutely mandatory when being around other people, such as workplace and such
2021-03-22T10:27:49 < benishor> wife's a doctor and at her workplace 5 workers got infected over the course of several months and she didn
2021-03-22T10:27:52 < benishor> t 
2021-03-22T10:28:02 < benishor> because she's following the rules religiously
2021-03-22T10:28:24 < benishor> wear mask, disinfect everything after each patient
2021-03-22T10:29:11 < benishor> people somehow get this impression that it's ok to lower the barricades when it comes to people they know
2021-03-22T10:29:15 < jpa-> 5 workers out of how many?
2021-03-22T10:29:21 < benishor> 20
2021-03-22T10:29:35 < benishor> more like 17 really
2021-03-22T10:31:43 < benishor> and although she got the pfizer jab some months ago, she's still sticking to the best practices
2021-03-22T10:32:03 < benishor> we also measured her antibodies level
2021-03-22T10:32:48 < benishor> which equated to something like 240 AU/mL, when 80 AU/mL was considered a great score for those wishing to donate plasma
2021-03-22T10:33:09 < benishor> otoh she had some very rough times after the second jab
2021-03-22T10:33:14 < benishor> her whole body went bananas
2021-03-22T10:34:11 < jadew> benishor, my mother in law is also a doctor and she had severe side effects after the second dose too
2021-03-22T10:34:21 < benishor> jadew: how old is she?
2021-03-22T10:34:23 < jadew> my dad on the other hand, didn't, but he's not a doctor
2021-03-22T10:34:29 < benishor> and what are her andibody levels?
2021-03-22T10:34:29 < jadew> about 60
2021-03-22T10:34:35 < jadew> I don't know about that
2021-03-22T10:34:35 < benishor> my parents' levels were around 30AU/mL. clearly age must have a say in this 
2021-03-22T10:34:39 < benishor> they're 73+
2021-03-22T10:34:50 < benishor> they didn't have any strong side effects
2021-03-22T10:35:07 < benishor> but then again, not such a huge immune effect
2021-03-22T10:35:16 < benishor> so far it appears that they are linked
2021-03-22T10:35:19 < jadew> the running hypothesis is that if you have severe side effects after the second dose, you would have likely had a bad time with covid
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2021-03-22T10:35:59 < benishor> jadew: what vaccine have you subscribed to?
2021-03-22T10:36:05 < jadew> Pfizer
2021-03-22T10:36:08 < benishor> great
2021-03-22T10:36:12 < benishor> good luck with that
2021-03-22T10:36:17 < benishor> when's it due?
2021-03-22T10:36:25 < jadew> something wrong with it?
2021-03-22T10:36:29 < jadew> on Friday
2021-03-22T10:36:32 < benishor> nope, it's the cleanest imo
2021-03-22T10:36:38 < benishor> I'd only take pfizer
2021-03-22T10:36:39 < jadew> yeah, that's what I think too
2021-03-22T10:36:43 < jadew> same here
2021-03-22T10:36:53 < benishor> actually I could have jumped some places and get it a while ago
2021-03-22T10:36:57 < benishor> but I chickened out
2021-03-22T10:37:04 < benishor> afraid of the side effects and all that
2021-03-22T10:37:13 < jadew> same here
2021-03-22T10:37:14 < benishor> but now I'm on the lists, so
2021-03-22T10:37:23 < benishor> fingers crossed, at least for the first jab
2021-03-22T10:37:25 < jadew> where are you getting it?
2021-03-22T10:37:29 < benishor> brasov
2021-03-22T10:37:36 < benishor> where are you travelling?
2021-03-22T10:37:53 < jadew> afterwards or for the vaccine?
2021-03-22T10:37:58 < benishor> both
2021-03-22T10:38:20 < jadew> the vaccine is here, at Romexpo
2021-03-22T10:38:29 < benishor> ooo, in bucharest, congrats
2021-03-22T10:38:31 < jadew> and I don't know what my wife has planned after the immunization
2021-03-22T10:38:49 < jadew> I hope they'll change gloves before giving me the shot
2021-03-22T10:38:52 < benishor> most of my bucharest friends have found places fuck knows where
2021-03-22T10:38:56 < benishor> in a 200km area
2021-03-22T10:39:04 < benishor> you can ask 
2021-03-22T10:39:26 < jadew> I will, if they don't do it
2021-03-22T10:39:44 < jadew> I got on the list 2 days ago, and today I got the message telling me I can continue with the appointment
2021-03-22T10:41:09 < qyx> huh moneyed southener
2021-03-22T10:41:16 < qyx> changinggloves before vaccinating
2021-03-22T10:41:38 < benishor> fingers crossed
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2021-03-22T11:39:11 < Laurenceb_> sup trolls
2021-03-22T11:39:20 < Laurenceb_> anyone know what could cause this error in putty
2021-03-22T11:39:40 < Laurenceb_>  "unable to agree a shared algorythm"
2021-03-22T11:39:56 < Laurenceb_> normally I can connect fine using same machines
2021-03-22T11:40:02 < Laurenceb_> aiui nothing has changed today
2021-03-22T11:41:02 < jpa-> probably the ssh server has been upgraded and doesn't like your outdated putty
2021-03-22T11:41:05 < jpa-> try upgrading putty
2021-03-22T11:41:30 < Laurenceb_> hmm ok
2021-03-22T11:41:42 < Laurenceb_> dunno if that will work, I'm on winxp
2021-03-22T11:44:10 < Laurenceb_> aha 0.74 installs and works
2021-03-22T11:44:12 < Laurenceb_> thanks
2021-03-22T11:47:09 < Laurenceb_> oh crap
2021-03-22T11:47:21 < Laurenceb_> cinnamon at 100% cpu
2021-03-22T11:48:24 < Steffanx> Windows XP wut Laurenceb_ ?
2021-03-22T11:48:31 < Steffanx> And that machine is internet connected?
2021-03-22T11:48:36 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2021-03-22T11:48:48 < Laurenceb_> using old machine to try to fix muh frozen lunix
2021-03-22T11:49:43 < Laurenceb_> cinnamon crashes way too often and I havent found a foolproof way to fit it
2021-03-22T11:49:46 < Laurenceb_> *fix
2021-03-22T11:49:55 < Steffanx> https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-739/Microsoft-Windows-Xp.html pick one? 
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2021-03-22T11:51:43 < Laurenceb_> shrug I have a firewall
2021-03-22T11:53:19 < Steffanx> Will you click on my secret links?
2021-03-22T11:54:05 < Laurenceb_> arg it failed
2021-03-22T11:54:15 < Laurenceb_> https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/issues/4763
2021-03-22T11:54:16 < Laurenceb_> wtf
2021-03-22T11:54:27 < effractur> >linux mint
2021-03-22T11:54:43 < Laurenceb_> yeah its buggy as fuck
2021-03-22T11:54:52 < Laurenceb_> ubuntu is rock solid compared to this
2021-03-22T11:55:06 < Steffanx> Time to upgrade 
2021-03-22T11:55:19 < Laurenceb_> looks like cinnamon has just died
2021-03-22T11:55:24 < Laurenceb_> somehow I need to startit
2021-03-22T12:04:10 < Laurenceb_> oh wow what the actual fuck
2021-03-22T12:04:21 < Laurenceb_> >usb speakers broken cinnamon
2021-03-22T12:04:42 < Laurenceb_> the speaker volume display panel handling got into a loop
2021-03-22T12:04:51 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state of lunix mint
2021-03-22T12:06:04 < Laurenceb_> >desktop manager gets taken down when you press speaker volume buttons aggressively
2021-03-22T12:08:27 < Laurenceb_> you dont even need badusb, just a speaker is good enough to take a system down :P
2021-03-22T12:11:29 < karlp> jpa-: I'm not entirely sure my crystal problems were caused by the cheap crystal actually, microchip ref design actualyl _specified_ the 1M parallel, I just "removed it for great justice"
2021-03-22T12:11:55 < karlp> and I've not rebuilt another one with the initially suspect suspect crystal yet.
2021-03-22T12:12:01 < Laurenceb_> ^that sounds like an issue I ran into once
2021-03-22T12:12:34 < Laurenceb_> aiui ST oscillators dont suffer from that parallel resistance issue
2021-03-22T12:15:13 < Laurenceb_> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/THpLgWDOH3.jpeg
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2021-03-22T15:14:53 < jadew> stupid weather ruined one of my PC fans
2021-03-22T15:15:37 < jadew> I had the window open for several hours and because it's freezing outside, one or two fans started making noises
2021-03-22T15:16:10 < jadew> there's a clacking sound and a vibrating sound
2021-03-22T15:25:03 < mouseghost> its catched cold
2021-03-22T15:26:16 < jadew> hah, it did, yeah
2021-03-22T15:27:44 < jadew> hope my hdds don't get damaged too
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2021-03-22T15:51:09 < jadew> man, DHL used to piss me off so bad, but now... ♥♥♥ DHL ♥♥♥
2021-03-22T15:51:29 < jadew> they're cheaper than even the cheap services
2021-03-22T15:52:14 < jadew> they only cost me twice as much as regular post
2021-03-22T15:52:53 < jadew> they pick the package from my door, and they don't "lose" them
2021-03-22T15:56:10 < Sadale> What's the use of zero impedance ferrite bead?
2021-03-22T16:02:32 < jadew> to kill some of the high frequency stuff
2021-03-22T16:04:55 < Sadale> hmm. Put it another way, how would one pick the impedance value of the ferrite bead?
2021-03-22T16:08:24 < karlp> have the impedence be "non-zero" for the frequencies you don't want.
2021-03-22T16:08:33 < karlp> so, I have a single 10nF capacitor on this board.
2021-03-22T16:09:26 < karlp> no info on impedance, but it can't be "10nF only!" https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mrz7J.png
2021-03-22T16:09:44 < karlp> of course, next size up I have already is 100nF, and next size down is 33pf.
2021-03-22T16:13:19 < englishman> change over those 100n to 10n then.
2021-03-22T16:17:27 < karlp> heh. 
2021-03-22T16:17:33 < karlp> was thinking of the other way....
2021-03-22T16:17:51 < karlp> but for now I guess, "fuck it, what's another line item"
2021-03-22T16:32:23 < Sadale> I still don't get what's the 0ohm impedance ferrite bead used for. For example, this particular model of ferrite bead "MFBM1V1608-000-R" said that its impedance is zero at 100Mhz. Why'd such a thing even exist? https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electronic-components/resources/data-sheet/eaton-mfbm1v1608-high-current-multilayer-ferrite-chip-bead-data-sheet.pdf
2021-03-22T16:33:44 < Sadale> Is it just like 0ohm resistor that essentially shorts the two pads?
2021-03-22T16:39:50 < englishman> the impedance chart is further down. impedance is low at 100 MHz because it's high at 1000 MHz
2021-03-22T16:40:45 < Sadale> ah. It makes sense.
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2021-03-22T16:53:44 < karlp> huh, didn't know eaton made parts like that.
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2021-03-22T17:36:34 < qyx> is this all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuMeLv9_oS0
2021-03-22T17:36:54 < qyx> not much lava
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2021-03-22T19:04:36 < Laurenceb> in the future the SAS cyber squad will use their super submarine to attack russian subsea hackers
2021-03-22T19:04:43 < Laurenceb> thats the future of the british army
2021-03-22T19:09:10 < Steffanx> You're a bad movie script writer Laurenceb 
2021-03-22T19:10:01 < Laurenceb> thats literally the UK news
2021-03-22T19:10:24 < Laurenceb> they are massively shrinking the army, but the SAS cyber squad is being enhanced with their super hacking sub
2021-03-22T19:11:03 < Laurenceb> literally Russian hackers in subsea trolling chambers beneath the polar icecap
2021-03-22T19:11:42 < Laurenceb> ur mums basement wasnt dramatic enough for them
2021-03-22T19:12:23 < Laurenceb> ywlts anti shitposting torpedos
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2021-03-22T19:30:30 < Steffanx> Thanks 
2021-03-22T19:45:25 < karlp> qyx: yeah, it's pretty tiny.
2021-03-22T19:45:32 < karlp> I'm going tomorrow if nothing changes.
2021-03-22T19:45:39 < karlp> already regretting not breaking sunday plans and goign then.
2021-03-22T19:46:38 < karlp> there's a better drone video where it possibly actualyl got hit by lava
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2021-03-22T19:52:48 < mawk> I forgot what ywlts means Laurenceb 
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2021-03-22T20:05:40 < Laurenceb> you will live to see
2021-03-22T20:17:56 < jadew> LED vs LED vs CCFL: http://86.121.78.133/stuff/20210322_200828_.jpg
2021-03-22T20:17:58 < Steffanx> you were late today (at) school
2021-03-22T20:18:02 < jadew> CCFL still #1
2021-03-22T20:18:54 < jadew> that's the same fucking image...
2021-03-22T20:19:00 < jadew> look at the jacket
2021-03-22T20:19:26 < jadew> why did we moved to this stupid technology?
2021-03-22T20:19:30 < jadew> ffs...
2021-03-22T20:19:34 < jadew> it's garbage
2021-03-22T20:19:59 < effractur> jadew: that sounds more like 2 crappy calibrated monitors vs one proper one
2021-03-22T20:20:00 < jadew> 15 yo monitor still looks better than new crap
2021-03-22T20:20:11 < jadew> effractur, they're both calibrated!
2021-03-22T20:20:26 < Steffanx> > poorly calibrated ;)
2021-03-22T20:20:26 < jadew> I have a proper calibrator
2021-03-22T20:20:30 < effractur> then 2 monitors with horrible contrast
2021-03-22T20:20:39 < effractur> and one with decent contrast
2021-03-22T20:20:45 < jadew> yeah, all LED monitors have shit contrast compared to CCFL
2021-03-22T20:21:03 < jadew> I think it's a compromise they have to make
2021-03-22T20:21:11 < effractur> well depening on the led panelt type etc
2021-03-22T20:21:15 < effractur> and if there is micro dimming etc
2021-03-22T20:21:19 < effractur> but most stuff is horrible 
2021-03-22T20:21:23 < jadew> between shit colors and backlight bleed and contrast
2021-03-22T20:21:48 < jadew> effractur, all CCFLs I had in the past were top notch compared with LED stuff
2021-03-22T20:22:05 < jadew> I have yet to put my hands on a good LED monitor
2021-03-22T20:22:12 < jadew> I'm not convinced it exists
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2021-03-22T22:04:18 < kakium69> https://www.vortex86.com/products
2021-03-22T22:05:14 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdSJgoP2a88
2021-03-22T22:06:45 < effractur> mm
2021-03-22T22:06:48 < effractur> that sound interesting
2021-03-22T22:06:54 < effractur> are there like board to buy with
2021-03-22T22:10:15 < effractur> ow lol h256 encoder on board
2021-03-22T22:25:29 < Steffanx> Cant buy them anyway. The new EU/China boycot will kill us all.
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2021-03-22T22:32:45 < jadew> Steffanx, you mean the VAT thing?
2021-03-22T22:34:28 < Steffanx> hah, no jadew : https://www.dw.com/en/china-sanctions-eu-officials-in-response-to-uyghur-row/a-56948924
2021-03-22T22:34:59 < t4nk_freenode> I think, hope, expect, that there will be an increasing number of e_u warehouses where we can buy our defective, fake but cheap goods
2021-03-22T22:35:24 < t4nk_freenode> euh.. sanctions withstanding ;)
2021-03-22T22:36:28 < BrainDamage> they are targeting individual persons
2021-03-22T22:36:39 < BrainDamage> not economic trad
2021-03-22T22:37:26 < BrainDamage> they obviously acknowledge they'd both be fucked if they banned trade, so it's a symbolic act
2021-03-22T22:38:38 < jadew> Steffanx, thanks for the link, reading it now
2021-03-22T22:39:11 < Steffanx> wasnt it obvious i was kinda joking? :(
2021-03-22T22:39:40 < t4nk_freenode> ?? I didn't think you were capable of that, Steffi :b
2021-03-22T22:40:57 < jadew> Steffanx, no, because I thought you're referring to the VAT thing
2021-03-22T22:41:01 < jadew> which I welcome
2021-03-22T22:41:30 < jadew> now they have to impose the same rules on imports that they impose on locally produced stuff and we're on equal footing
2021-03-22T22:41:59 < jadew> it was absurd that local companies had to pay 20% VAT while external ones didn't
2021-03-22T22:42:54 < effractur> jadew: external companies still needed to pay tax
2021-03-22T22:43:00 < effractur> it was just charged on import
2021-03-22T22:43:03 < effractur> instead of on the shop
2021-03-22T22:43:11 < t4nk_freenode> welllllll the local companies DId buy their goods at bottom prices, and sold them under killer profits.. so there's that too :)
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2021-03-22T22:43:28 < jadew> effractur, if you buy stuff that's below $xx, you don't pay VAT
2021-03-22T22:43:44 < effractur> 22 euros but starting first of june that is gone 
2021-03-22T22:43:49 < t4nk_freenode> july
2021-03-22T22:43:51 < jadew> yeah
2021-03-22T22:43:52 < effractur> then you pay vat + import fee
2021-03-22T22:43:57 < jadew> yep
2021-03-22T22:43:58 < effractur> and import fee is already 10 euros
2021-03-22T22:44:00 < effractur> at least here
2021-03-22T22:44:05 < jadew> same here
2021-03-22T22:44:24 < jadew> unless you're a company, then it's ~20-30
2021-03-22T22:44:26 < t4nk_freenode> and the postal offices charges 13euros just for having a look at the form
2021-03-22T22:44:37 < jadew> this is good stuff
2021-03-22T22:44:47 < BrainDamage> still better than express couriers
2021-03-22T22:45:02 < BrainDamage> which will charge you 20-40 bucks, depending
2021-03-22T22:45:10 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, ..crazy
2021-03-22T22:45:22 < jadew> actually, no, shipping comes out cheaper for me in many cases with DHL, than through regular post
2021-03-22T22:45:35 < jadew> DHL for example doesn't charge me anything extra
2021-03-22T22:46:14 < jadew> they fill the paper work and just tell me to pay the VAT and customs taxes and that's it
2021-03-22T22:46:42 < jadew> so when I get a chance to ship via HK DHL for $20-30, it actually ends up being cheaper than via regular post
2021-03-22T22:46:51 < jadew> because via regular post, that's what I pay for their stupid fee
2021-03-22T22:47:17 < jadew> but again, I this is good, it will allow new business to appear in the EU
2021-03-22T22:48:16 < jadew> at least in theory, we'll see how good it really is in practice :)
2021-03-22T22:49:45 < jadew> also, regarding those sanctions - LOL
2021-03-22T22:50:02 < jadew> the EU sanctioned 11 individuals... bo hoo
2021-03-22T22:50:19 < jadew> that's not a sanction... that's not even a slap on the wrist
2021-03-22T22:50:35 < jadew> it means nothing in the grand scheme of things
2021-03-22T22:51:52 < fenugrec> that sums up most international politics, like UN "strongly condemning" country for this and that, a.k.a. banging their fist on the table
2021-03-22T22:51:57 < jadew> and they made a video to pat themselves on the back, f. laughable
2021-03-22T22:52:58 < BrainDamage> were we independent from china, we'd be able to have real sanctions
2021-03-22T22:53:07 < BrainDamage> but not as things are
2021-03-22T22:53:50 < jadew> I don't see how that could happen
2021-03-22T22:53:55 < jadew> the world is addicted to cheap shit
2021-03-22T22:54:46 < t4nk_freenode> cheap shit rocks!
2021-03-22T22:54:53 < jadew> if you flip the switch on China, local companies will have to increase their prices dramatically, so they'll go out of business, because nobody will want to buy a TV for the price of a car
2021-03-22T22:56:32 < jadew> or maybe that's just a confusion, that because china has sweatshops and we don't, we can't produce a TV at the same price as China does
2021-03-22T22:56:41 < jadew> in the end, how much of that TV is produced in a sweatshop?
2021-03-22T22:57:00 < jadew> if not much... then I guess we just need the infrastructures and factories
2021-03-22T22:57:24 < jadew> but we should still do it somewhere else, because it would screw up the "green movement" we have going
2021-03-22T22:57:41 < BrainDamage> it's not just sweatshops, china got huge infra because people acceped miserable pays and living conditions
2021-03-22T22:58:10 < BrainDamage> now they are reaping it with an economic boom, but they had misery until a short time ago
2021-03-22T22:58:12 < t4nk_freenode> that will NEVER HAPPEN TO US!!!!
2021-03-22T22:58:25 < t4nk_freenode> *chokes from coughing*
2021-03-22T22:59:20 < jadew> yeah, well with globalization and technology advancing at this pace... I don't see why we wouldn't be able to compete in that regard too :)
2021-03-22T22:59:22 < BrainDamage> as for pollution, china had to freeze trafffic and industry months in advance for the olympics
2021-03-22T22:59:41 < jadew> didn't know that
2021-03-22T22:59:43 < jadew> that's sad
2021-03-22T22:59:44 < BrainDamage> because the air wouldd be so hazy the visibility was unacceeptable
2021-03-22T23:00:13 < BrainDamage> they chose it themselves
2021-03-22T23:00:20 < BrainDamage> weren't forced to
2021-03-22T23:00:35 < Laurenceb> >bathing and living in your office are both red letter warning signs to those around you that everything is NOT OK. Torvalds took some time out and worked on his anger issues. While it's probably fair to say he's still hot tempered, he made some real progress. Its time for RMS to do likewise.
2021-03-22T23:00:38 < Laurenceb> lolling
2021-03-22T23:00:43 < BrainDamage> just like they chose to pollute their own air, or to host the olympics,etc
2021-03-22T23:02:37 < jadew> I think slowly we'll see more anti-globalization measures
2021-03-22T23:02:46 < jadew> the VAT thing is one of them
2021-03-22T23:03:05 < jadew> the better customs check one was the first
2021-03-22T23:05:32 < jadew> it definitely seems like a "bring the economy back home" thing
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2021-03-22T23:06:20 < jadew> anyway, time for bed
2021-03-22T23:06:23 < jadew> night
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2021-03-22T23:42:56 < karlp> they're not really anti globalizaton, just more of making the true costs paid rather than transferred.
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2021-03-23T02:54:22 < kakium69> Steffanx: finnish indie musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XKZT37U_h0
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2021-03-23T09:36:58 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/part-tracing?utm_source=online&utm_medium=vanity&utm_campaign=parttracing   hmm this is nice, digikey now prints part code on cut tape
2021-03-23T09:50:48 < qyx> oh
2021-03-23T09:51:32 < qyx> the next thing is avoiding other packaging altogether if parts are not ESD or MSL sensitive
2021-03-23T09:51:52 < qyx> it generates a fuckton of waste
2021-03-23T09:52:14 < qyx> or they could simply pack 20 cut tapes into a single bag
2021-03-23T09:52:25 < jpa-> yeah
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2021-03-23T14:36:52 < bitmask> hi ppl
2021-03-23T15:01:32 < kakium69> hi
2021-03-23T15:05:46 < bitmask> hows it going kaki
2021-03-23T15:09:47 < kakium69> boring and stuff
2021-03-23T15:10:18 < kakium69> so boring I started studying
2021-03-23T15:10:45 < kakium69> I think I'll head to ice track soon
2021-03-23T15:14:16 < bitmask> ice track? like to ice skate?
2021-03-23T15:16:57 < kakium69> yeah but I preffer 4motion passat on ice track
2021-03-23T15:18:34 < kakium69> it just went from -7C to +7C and there is no forecast for any -C anymore
2021-03-23T15:18:46 < kakium69> so ice track goes into shit soon
2021-03-23T15:20:03 < englishman> yes all the ice here is brown and wet
2021-03-23T15:20:24 < ventYl> kakium69: on sunday, I did my first 30km on motorcycle this year
2021-03-23T15:20:34 < ventYl> yesterday, it was snowing again
2021-03-23T15:20:43 < kakium69> on sunday I sold my motorcycle
2021-03-23T15:21:34 < englishman> time to get a convertible?
2021-03-23T15:22:40 < ventYl> eh, while I know internals of vast majority of convertibles produced nowadays... I wouldn't recommend doing so
2021-03-23T15:22:43 < ventYl> :>
2021-03-23T15:25:10 < kakium69> convertibles even shitty ones are like 5k
2021-03-23T15:25:31 < kakium69> for summer that last for couple of days
2021-03-23T15:25:52 < kakium69> makes no sense
2021-03-23T15:27:50 < englishman> I'd like to get a 1990 Miata 1.6
2021-03-23T15:28:26 < ventYl> make sure you grab one which is not rusty
2021-03-23T15:28:51 < englishman> they are generally ok as they are not driven in winter
2021-03-23T15:28:54 < ventYl> friend of mine was looking for one so long, he eventually bought brand new
2021-03-23T15:28:55 < englishman> here, at least
2021-03-23T15:30:54 -!- jpnurmi_ is now known as jpnurmi
2021-03-23T15:32:14 < kakium69> ventYl: newest model?
2021-03-23T15:32:24 < kakium69> 2020
2021-03-23T15:33:01 < ventYl> Miata type ND, IIRC he bought it in 2018 or something like that
2021-03-23T15:33:28 < ventYl> with just basic 1.6 SkyActive
2021-03-23T15:33:37 < ventYl> and no extras
2021-03-23T15:35:15 < fenugrec> race enthusiasts here call the miata the "hairdresser's car"
2021-03-23T15:36:17 < ventYl> technically, Miata is car of its own class. Maybe some BMW Zs sometimes enter it, but Mazda usually has it all sorted out right
2021-03-23T15:36:29 < ventYl> so they ended up with simple, light and very enjoyable car
2021-03-23T15:36:46 < kakium69> bmw doesn't do sports cars
2021-03-23T15:36:50 < fenugrec> its low weight and low CG make it quite good on track, so I'm told
2021-03-23T15:37:39 < ventYl> low weight means, it doesn't have to have extremely stiff suspension to have good handling. which means it is quite comfy even on worse roads
2021-03-23T15:38:08 < ventYl> and also that it doesn't need to be over-powered
2021-03-23T15:39:10 < kakium69> weight and power are opposite sides of same thing
2021-03-23T15:39:19 < ventYl> yes but no
2021-03-23T15:39:26 < ventYl> power gives you speed
2021-03-23T15:39:43 < kakium69> hmm true
2021-03-23T15:39:43 < ventYl> lack of weight also gives you speed, but not just in straight line
2021-03-23T15:41:24 < fenugrec> it's all meaningless unless you have proper tires https://ibb.co/q1zhXNw
2021-03-23T15:42:13 < kakium69> is it desirable to have one of rear tyres to lift up like that?
2021-03-23T15:42:34 < fenugrec> no, but it is desirable to use a car you can afford P )
2021-03-23T15:42:48 < fenugrec> and it makes a nice pic
2021-03-23T15:43:53 < ventYl> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/69/e5/c6/69e5c64bc8e046103c4fe398829e3d6d.jpg
2021-03-23T15:43:55 < ventYl> opposite end
2021-03-23T15:44:31 < kakium69> having front wheels to lift up is desirable
2021-03-23T15:44:47 < fenugrec> heh
2021-03-23T15:44:49 < ventYl> https://rallygroupbshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Skoda-130-LR-Miroslav-Sefr-1989-ERC.jpg
2021-03-23T15:44:55 < ventYl> and then... fuck it, i am an airplane
2021-03-23T15:45:40 < englishman> nice mk2
2021-03-23T15:45:43 < fenugrec> alas, the days of fun light rwd beaters are long gone
2021-03-23T15:46:20 < englishman> they're still fun but they're not light
2021-03-23T15:51:21 < fenugrec> fair. But fwd can be cheaper fun https://ibb.co/FhR6PJy
2021-03-23T15:51:53 < ventYl> what is it? some toyota?
2021-03-23T15:52:00 < fenugrec> nissan b15 sentra
2021-03-23T15:52:21 < ventYl> US market?
2021-03-23T15:52:30 < fenugrec> b15 = everywhere, but the sentra name is US/Can
2021-03-23T15:53:11 < ventYl> it might be elantra elsewhere
2021-03-23T15:53:19 < fenugrec> "Sunny" . elantra is hyundai
2021-03-23T15:53:29 < ventYl> hm. right
2021-03-23T15:53:37 < ventYl> quite rare car around here
2021-03-23T15:55:01 < fenugrec> you're not missing much... the qr25de engine + 6spd mt is fun, but the shell rusts to trash
2021-03-23T15:55:51 < ventYl> while about 95% of cars around here have MT, nothing special
2021-03-23T16:08:35 < kakium69> I wonder if I should change my passat v6 to w8
2021-03-23T16:13:10 < ventYl> more work?
2021-03-23T16:17:04 < invzim> hm, so what happens if you run filterless class-d audio through a pot?
2021-03-23T16:17:37 < invzim> Don't have a suitable pot available so can't really test -would it adjust the volume or just blow everything up
2021-03-23T16:21:02 < ventYl> in digital or already in analog form?
2021-03-23T16:23:01 < invzim> not sure what you call it, it sends 'pwm-ish' output to the speaker.  Issue is I have to interface with speakers that has a potentiometer on the speaker-line
2021-03-23T16:25:20 < ventYl> hm, ignoring the fact that you have to burn some power in your pot, which is placed after power stage of your amp, it should control volume. somehow 
2021-03-23T16:25:50 < ventYl> I can't tell what distortion it causes
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2021-03-23T20:14:06 < jadew> offer on a $0.69 item on aliexpress: "Free shipping for orders over US $9,999.00 via the selected shipping method"
2021-03-23T20:14:24 < jadew> and $1.85 shipping
2021-03-23T20:15:15 < Laurenceb> keeek perpetual motion hyperloop
2021-03-23T20:15:39 < Laurenceb> >plan is for dual pods with 1kV DC link between them
2021-03-23T20:15:53 < Laurenceb> so one can run at max power with the other running regen braking
2021-03-23T20:16:07 < Laurenceb> without a megawatt power supply to the rails
2021-03-23T20:16:39 < mawk> call elon musk he will solve your problem Laurenceb 
2021-03-23T20:17:13 < jadew> a device that doesn't let you to get off?
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2021-03-23T20:31:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/gcb55Is.png
2021-03-23T20:31:44 < bitmask> i need better tools
2021-03-23T20:37:05 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: it's not uncommon for mountain tracks here to have trains to regen brake supply the other one going up, it doesn't replace a power source but it surely save quite a bit money
2021-03-23T20:40:07 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-23T20:40:20 < Laurenceb> but here they will have a cable between them
2021-03-23T20:40:25 < Laurenceb> argg wtf cinnamon
2021-03-23T20:40:33 < Laurenceb> csd-power is at 100% cpu again
2021-03-23T20:40:56 < Laurenceb> seems the cinnamon display widgets are also responsible for intermittently breaking my keyboard
2021-03-23T20:41:27 < Laurenceb> csd-power pegs the cpu for about 5 minutes at a time for no apparent reason every so often...
2021-03-23T20:41:59 < ventYl> sending captured data to government
2021-03-23T20:42:34 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-23T20:42:45 < Laurenceb> its the backlight controller
2021-03-23T20:43:00 < Laurenceb> audio volume controller is also broken
2021-03-23T20:43:15 < Laurenceb> a usb speaker can take down the whole system 
2021-03-23T20:44:12 < ventYl> is that linux?
2021-03-23T20:44:25 < Laurenceb> yeah, lunix mint
2021-03-23T20:45:15 < Laurenceb> usb speaker: takes down the system
2021-03-23T20:45:32 < Laurenceb> adjusting backlight one notch: pegs cpu for 5 minutes, unmounts keyboard
2021-03-23T20:47:46 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53361.msg2209259#msg2209259
2021-03-23T20:47:54 < Laurenceb> keeek musk private mars army
2021-03-23T20:48:13 < Laurenceb> >* Tack Tickle Ninja Enforcer 2.JPG (32.11 kB, 661x385 - viewed 91 times.)
2021-03-23T20:48:16 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
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2021-03-23T21:43:24 < Laurenceb> Climate anxiety must be directed toward addressing the ways that racism manifests as environmental trauma and vice versa—how environmentalism manifests as racialized violence. We need to channel grief toward collective liberation.
2021-03-23T21:43:25 < Laurenceb> >By Sarah Jaquette Ray
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2021-03-23T21:54:36 < mawk> lol
2021-03-23T21:56:59 < Steffanx> is mawk still alive? He's quiet lately
2021-03-23T21:58:42 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-03-23T21:59:37 < Steffanx> what's up sir
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2021-03-23T22:12:22 < mawk> I am working on computer vision code Steffanx 
2021-03-23T22:12:26 < mawk> and it's ugly
2021-03-23T22:12:34 < Steffanx> uygur detection?
2021-03-23T22:12:40 < mawk> lol
2021-03-23T22:12:43 < mawk> almost
2021-03-23T22:12:55 < mawk> but we train the system with bikes to not alert suspicion
2021-03-23T22:15:17 < Steffanx> ah, thats a nice trick
2021-03-23T22:17:21 < Laurenceb> someone should make a computer vision pervert
2021-03-23T22:17:34 < Laurenceb> it identifies hot grrrls from cctv feeds
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--- Day changed Wed Mar 24 2021
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2021-03-24T00:17:52 < karlp> aw, fenugrec's link is dead already.
2021-03-24T00:19:44 < karlp> what's this fucking ibb.co shit, none of it is still viable
2021-03-24T00:29:22 < fenugrec> I don't imgur, so I took a random bin
2021-03-24T00:35:06 < fenugrec> you didn't miss much. just car stuff  https://ibb.co/3138P68 https://ibb.co/CJhvsZq
2021-03-24T00:36:31 < karlp> oh right, a sentra!
2021-03-24T00:36:45 < karlp> hah
2021-03-24T00:37:44 < karlp> here, fair trade: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/TpP7teNCweky3qr (not a car)
2021-03-24T00:39:21 < fenugrec> mount doom.is
2021-03-24T00:39:23 < fenugrec> how's the smoke
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2021-03-24T00:41:14 < karlp> totally fine.
2021-03-24T00:41:21 < karlp> super cutesy little tourist eruption
2021-03-24T00:41:50 < karlp> most of the photos are on my "big" camera, that I've not even used in two years, and am not motivated to try and unpack tonight
2021-03-24T00:41:57 < karlp> soonly a couple of phone pics right now
2021-03-24T00:42:22 < fenugrec> nice
2021-03-24T00:43:35 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/237cNxszYs7oGZm is also neat.
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2021-03-24T00:50:35 < Steffanx> Cool video karlp 
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2021-03-24T02:42:38 < basdb> does the stm32f0 not have alternate functions on Port C? the datasheet seems to just like alternate function maps for PA and PB, but then nothing after, though the pin definitions state PC has alternate functions
2021-03-24T02:51:19 < aandrew> basdb: what's the datasheet say? there's a whole section for this. 
2021-03-24T02:51:33 < aandrew> practically every port pin has alternate functions
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2021-03-24T02:54:46 < basdb> it doesn't make a mention of PC having alternate functions aside from the pinout, i don't see anything in there indicating that there is even a GPIOC_AFR
2021-03-24T02:55:06 < basdb> im guessing it doesn't though i could've sworn i've used PWM with GPIOC before -- maybe this was on the STM32F4?
2021-03-24T02:55:39 < aandrew> basdb: what is the exact part number
2021-03-24T03:01:19 < basdb> STM32F051R8T6 i believe
2021-03-24T03:02:33 < aandrew> page 44 of the datasheet
2021-03-24T03:02:36 < aandrew> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f071cb.pdf
2021-03-24T03:04:03 < basdb> thats the stm32f071 not 051, but i'll look
2021-03-24T03:04:05 < aandrew> hm, that is 071, 051 doesn't have the AF section but does also show that only LQFP64 and UFBGA64 have port c at all
2021-03-24T03:04:32 < aandrew> I am also willing to bet a donut that the 051 has the exact same AF mapping as 071, but you'd have to test it
2021-03-24T03:04:59 < basdb> right now im just trying to get PA1 and PA2 working in quadrature encoder counting modes (again)
2021-03-24T03:05:43 < aandrew> that is interesting how the DS doesn't have that info, I'd contact ST and tell them
2021-03-24T03:06:41 < basdb> nope you're right
2021-03-24T03:07:13 < basdb> setting PC8 and PC9 to AF2 does tie them to TIM3_CH1 and CH2 respectively which the datasheet doesn't mention
2021-03-24T03:07:34 < basdb> i knew i had that working before, i probably just looked at the F4 mappings in the past and it's the same/similar for those
2021-03-24T03:07:58 < basdb> sorry i mean PC8 and PC9 go to CH3 and CH4 of TIM3**
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2021-03-24T06:43:57 < basdb> can vbat just be hooked up straight to a coin cell, just to keep the RTC running when VDD is gone?
2021-03-24T07:00:46 < jpa-> usually yes
2021-03-24T07:02:16 < jpa-> though at least UL and maybe CE might need protection diode or resistor to protect against battery fire if vbat short-circuits for any reason
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2021-03-24T12:19:04 < upgrdman> anyone know the cheapest stm32 with internal usb-hs phy?
2021-03-24T12:19:12 < upgrdman> not just fs, but hs
2021-03-24T12:33:06 < upgrdman> shit, seems like f7
2021-03-24T12:33:07 < upgrdman> :(
2021-03-24T12:33:08 < zyp> f743 or something IIRC
2021-03-24T12:33:22 < zyp> that's the _only_ stm32 with internal hs phy
2021-03-24T12:33:28 < zyp> unless you count mp1
2021-03-24T12:33:30 < upgrdman> k
2021-03-24T12:33:39 < upgrdman> and mp1 is more expensive right?
2021-03-24T12:33:59 < zyp> well yeah, it's a full cortex-a system
2021-03-24T12:34:57 < zyp> what are you planning to do? just want to avoid the external phy?
2021-03-24T12:36:32 < upgrdman> shit lots of ADCs readings to PC. so 7.2MSPS*16bits... so ~110Mbps
2021-03-24T12:36:56 < upgrdman> looking for cheapest option with fast ADC and usb-hs device
2021-03-24T12:37:33 < upgrdman> seems like f730 is the cheapest option so far. $7.64 for qty 1, $4.67 for qty 1000.
2021-03-24T12:39:46 < upgrdman> and looks like it doesnt support crystal-less usb. i guess usb hs is too picky.
2021-03-24T12:41:02 < zyp> AFAIK there's no dwc_otg parts with HSI48/CRS
2021-03-24T12:41:18 < upgrdman> k
2021-03-24T12:41:28 < zyp> and the other usb core doesn't do HS
2021-03-24T12:47:23 < karlp> you can always use ulpi for the phy...
2021-03-24T12:47:28 < karlp> and just use f4 or something
2021-03-24T12:48:36 < karlp> or switch to atmel/nxp?
2021-03-24T12:48:48 < karlp> hrm, might misremember on atmel having one.
2021-03-24T12:50:28 < upgrdman> karlp, i think f4+phy is >f7
2021-03-24T12:50:46 < tct> any experiences of applying acrylic based conformal coating from a spray-can to a PCB? Does one need to apply several layers with drying times in-between or do you give it one firm coat and be done with it?
2021-03-24T12:51:45 < upgrdman> ive never does conformal coating, but with paint you always wants thin coats with drying in between
2021-03-24T12:51:52 < upgrdman> to prevent cracking as the solvent evaps
2021-03-24T12:52:58 < jpa-> tct: doesn't the manufacturer provide instructions?
2021-03-24T12:53:15 < tct> jpa-, more looking for general experiences at this point.
2021-03-24T12:53:28 < tct> also still looking whether I want acrylic based or urethan based 
2021-03-24T12:53:44 < tct> so happy for any input you guys can provide - incase of existing experiences :)
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2021-03-24T13:52:38 < Steffanx> The only experience I have is that a company does the coating for us, but.. no clue what is being used ;)
2021-03-24T13:53:51 < Steffanx> The were supposed to use some automated way, but in the end the pcb+connectors were too complex for the machine.
2021-03-24T13:53:59 < Steffanx> -_-
2021-03-24T13:54:14 < Steffanx> So they do it by hand
2021-03-24T14:10:27 < zyp> haha
2021-03-24T14:10:35 < zyp> sounds like bad DFM
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2021-03-24T14:24:58 < englishman> my place also offered a bunch of different coatings. but we didn't need any of the special advantages of the expensive ones so just went with the cheapest
2021-03-24T14:25:21 < englishman> UV protection, good temp coefficient etc
2021-03-24T14:26:16 < englishman> there is a big difference between how coatings are applied, one place had a cool 6axis squirter with <1mm resolution, the other must have misted it on with a dollar store spray bottle
2021-03-24T14:31:58 < aandrew> tct: when I was in industrial power we started out rattle-can spraying the boards and the results were inconsistent because the people doing it were not really paying attention. We then started having the assembly house do it and results was 1000x better for very very little cost difference
2021-03-24T14:32:29 < aandrew> they used a conformal coat which had a UV tracer in it so after spraying, it was optically inspected to ensure coverage with a UV lamp, which I thought was pretty cool
2021-03-24T14:33:17 < aandrew> a few years later we revisited the requirements and tried just a humiseal instead. we found that that worked for 80% of our needs and we upcharged the 20% who needed actual conformal coat, so win-win
2021-03-24T14:33:32 < aandrew> and the service guys were much, much happier too. working on conformal coated boards is awful
2021-03-24T14:34:28 < Steffanx> DFM zyp?
2021-03-24T14:35:10 < Steffanx> ... for manufacturing?
2021-03-24T14:35:27 < aandrew> I'm not sure if it was acrylic or urethane. the boards were pretty much waterproof but looked like they were dipped in a clear version of the liquid plastic you put your tool handles in
2021-03-24T14:35:33 < aandrew> Steffanx: design for manufacture
2021-03-24T14:35:36 < Steffanx> If yes, then no. Since they said the could do it, but in the end the couldnt. 
2021-03-24T14:35:43 < Steffanx> They*
2021-03-24T14:36:21 < aandrew> Steffanx: the first board house who told us they could conformal coat really did rattle-can in a cardboard box, when we found out we decided to jsut do it on our own but got the same (shittier actually) results
2021-03-24T14:36:33 < aandrew> a proper application and inspection makes all the difference in the world
2021-03-24T14:37:29 < qyx> any PT100 pro here?
2021-03-24T14:37:41 < zyp> Steffanx, design for manufacturability
2021-03-24T14:37:55 < qyx> whats the best aging/drift to expect?
2021-03-24T15:14:01 < aandrew> sigh
2021-03-24T15:14:19 < aandrew> love how the federal tax phone line plays lullabye music while they keep you on hold for 30m
2021-03-24T15:29:07 < Steffanx> Haha, I just had one. The worst thing is that it's terribly loud compared to the one picking up the phone.
2021-03-24T15:32:02 < aandrew> yep
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2021-03-24T15:32:47 < aandrew> these fuckers took all of the payments I made and put them in some separate account, then said "oh you were assessed at $x, and since you didn't make any payments, there's another $900 in interest, so your balance is now $mega
2021-03-24T15:33:07 < aandrew> meanwhile right under that in another section it shows a substantial credit balance (all my payments) 
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2021-03-24T15:39:14 < englishman> looks like you used the tax account when you should have used withholding!
2021-03-24T15:39:21 < englishman> as a DIY accountant you should have known that!
2021-03-24T15:40:04 < englishman> aandrew plz as someone who makes as much as you, you should know the value of a subcontractor. my accountants have made me so much more money than they cost
2021-03-24T15:40:52 < aandrew> englishman: I don't think that's the issue; in my online banking I have "tax" and "tax instalments" - I never use the instalments one but yet that's where the things were put
2021-03-24T15:41:11 < aandrew> englishman: and the fucked part is that if you go into the banking details - the account info for both is identical
2021-03-24T15:41:18 < englishman> for the feds the only difference is the letter suffix iirc
2021-03-24T15:42:13 < aandrew> yeah - I did make the mistake of withholding vs instalment a few years ago, that was my own fuckup but this seems different
2021-03-24T15:42:29 < aandrew> this is pers taxes too though, corp is a whole other kettle of fish
2021-03-24T15:43:02 < englishman> ill be doing mine this weekend. shitty turbotax didnt use my rrsp deductions last year
2021-03-24T15:44:44 < fenugrec> turdostax
2021-03-24T15:45:54 < tct> aandrew, thanks for that info!
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2021-03-24T15:54:56 < mouseghost> SIMPlicity studio
2021-03-24T15:55:10 < mouseghost> after trying to boot it up ive decided that my life is too short and i will indeed use vim
2021-03-24T15:55:26 < mouseghost> and its eclipse based
2021-03-24T15:56:42 < srk> :D lol
2021-03-24T15:58:50 < mouseghost> it looks as if java and electron had a child
2021-03-24T15:58:57 < mouseghost> and it was incest relationship
2021-03-24T16:02:04 < Steffanx> But simplicity studio is the worst kind of eclipse  based 
2021-03-24T16:02:17 < Steffanx> The managed to make it worse. Also an achievement
2021-03-24T16:03:02 < mouseghost> yep
2021-03-24T16:03:06 < mouseghost> i never used it before
2021-03-24T16:03:07 < mouseghost> but
2021-03-24T16:03:11 < mouseghost> i noticed it is terrible
2021-03-24T16:14:53 < srk> Steffanx: how? added few more package managers?
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2021-03-24T17:28:46 < Steffanx> Yeah, custom board/mcu packages, weird very hidden programmer settings. It's still pretty much eclipse will all kinds of custom dialogs/views 
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2021-03-24T18:50:09 < jpa-> meh, why am i so lazy nowadays
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2021-03-24T18:52:23 < t4nk_freenode> true colors?
2021-03-24T18:55:07 < jadew> I'm asking myself the same thing, I think it's because of the various ways you have at your disposal to waste time
2021-03-24T18:55:49 < jadew> I decided to stay off from youtube, social media, etc, unless it's for research, in the idea that if I get bored I should just watch a movie or... get bored
2021-03-24T18:55:58 < jadew> and then I might find work appealing again
2021-03-24T18:56:49 < jadew> I don't know if this is the standard on tiktok, but I think it figured out the correct ratio of crap to keep me hooked
2021-03-24T18:57:16 < Steffanx> Lazy or uninterested, jpa- ?
2021-03-24T18:57:19 < jadew> funny stuff, boobs, boobs, ass, funny stuff, boobs, boobs, ass, woke crap to enrage me
2021-03-24T18:57:24 < jpa-> lol, tiktok?
2021-03-24T18:57:43 < jadew> yeah... who would have thought
2021-03-24T18:57:46 < jpa-> Steffanx: lazy, or perhaps problems concentrating
2021-03-24T18:58:13 < Steffanx> Or just conserving energy?
2021-03-24T19:09:43 < mawk> go see a psychiatrist jpa- 
2021-03-24T19:09:56 < mawk> you may be lucky and have an actual treatable condition
2021-03-24T19:10:02 < mawk> it's not always just laziness
2021-03-24T19:11:58 < mouseghost> Steffanx, have you used your own with emlibs?
2021-03-24T19:12:02 < mouseghost> i plan to do that i think
2021-03-24T19:12:07 < mouseghost> looks very promising
2021-03-24T19:12:30 < mouseghost> im surprised not more people use efm32
2021-03-24T19:13:11 < jpa-> mawk: well sure, i have had depression episodes before, but it's not at the point where i would need treatment
2021-03-24T19:13:34 < mawk> I wasn't particularly thinking of depression
2021-03-24T19:13:42 < mouseghost> depression is shit ;x
2021-03-24T19:13:44 < mawk> troubles with motivation are an entirely different class of issues
2021-03-24T19:17:05 < Steffanx> The emlibs I used wasn't so bad imho mouseghost 
2021-03-24T19:18:24 < mouseghost> yeah they look pretty good
2021-03-24T19:18:27 < mouseghost> just the ide is shitty
2021-03-24T19:19:56 < Steffanx> Heh
2021-03-24T19:20:50 < Steffanx> I'm not one of those that hates eclipse. Just the unusual sauce silabs added is meh. I guess I can find my way in it well enough
2021-03-24T19:21:28 < Steffanx> Try SEGGER Studio for once and you will run back to simplicity studio 😅
2021-03-24T19:22:43 < mouseghost> :{
2021-03-24T19:22:51 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i can cope with vim :D
2021-03-24T19:23:03 < mouseghost> clion is nice too
2021-03-24T19:23:15 < Steffanx> But $$
2021-03-24T19:24:20 < Steffanx> Damn 200 euro. And much every year 
2021-03-24T19:24:34 < Steffanx> OK 89
2021-03-24T19:24:39 < mouseghost> im a student
2021-03-24T19:24:46 < mouseghost> so, heh
2021-03-24T19:24:50 < mouseghost> even managed to get altium for free
2021-03-24T19:24:57 < Steffanx> Ah
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2021-03-24T20:47:18 < Steffanx> Heh boddax long time no see
2021-03-24T21:06:03 < boddax> hi steffanx thanks
2021-03-24T21:06:17 < boddax> all ok too much busy
2021-03-24T21:07:15 < boddax> and no progress with electronics project :)))
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2021-03-24T21:21:15 < Steffanx> Busy during those covid times boddax?
2021-03-24T21:21:51 < boddax> sure never stop to work
2021-03-24T21:22:36 < boddax> are you work at home steffanx ?
2021-03-24T21:24:46 < Steffanx> Sometimes, mostly in the office the last months. Hard to take the work homd
2021-03-24T21:24:49 < Steffanx> Home
2021-03-24T21:25:25 < boddax> dont know other countries but here foreigners can came but we cannot go next town
2021-03-24T21:27:45 < boddax> atleast you working thats good
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2021-03-24T21:37:40 < Steffanx> Oh I can move pretty freely. Except after 21.00
2021-03-24T21:38:26 < mawk> soon 22
2021-03-24T21:39:13 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-03-24T21:40:23  * PaulFertser had an interesting encounter today
2021-03-24T21:40:42 < PaulFertser> A black person approached near a metro station entrance and asked if I speaked English.
2021-03-24T21:41:43 < PaulFertser> Says: "I'm from Africa". Me: "Great". Him: "Need money to buy food". (and the guy looks reasonably well, not a bum, just as a usual student, sane clothing etc)
2021-03-24T21:42:59 < PaulFertser> I told him let's go buy some food together nearby if he's hungry. He started to explain how he can't eat russian food, gets sick from it, noodles and chicken turns his stomach etc. I told him: "it might be the sauce". He agreed. I said "eat without the sauce then".
2021-03-24T21:43:27 < boddax> need people give a money so never look for a job :))
2021-03-24T21:44:04 < PaulFertser> He was saying there's some special shop with "african food" he needed, lol.
2021-03-24T21:44:20 < boddax> work is hard and the soil is low
2021-03-24T21:44:40 < PaulFertser> btw, afaik chicken is the most widely available meat in Africa.
2021-03-24T21:47:37 < effractur> well africa is hhuuuge
2021-03-24T21:47:46 < effractur> so it depens really on the region
2021-03-24T21:47:46 < PaulFertser> Of course
2021-03-24T21:48:06 < PaulFertser> The funnier the statement about "african food" sounds.
2021-03-24T21:53:14 < Steffanx> im surprised you didn't tell him to be more precise PaulFertser  ;)
2021-03-24T21:55:44 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: lol, yes, I should have asked him what food exactly he wanted. But I was asking how is he going to get to the "special african food shop" if he had no money for a ticket.
2021-03-24T21:56:50 < boddax> special food its rhino steak
2021-03-24T22:05:36 < ventYl> kinda reminds me of a bunch of people begging for train ticket at Munich airport
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 25 2021
2021-03-25T00:12:52 -!- k\o\w [~k\o\w@cpe708ea3a28aba-cm589630ad9c27.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-25T00:56:17  * karlp wonder why some networking is shit slow, then remembers that his gig switch died, and he's on 100meg.
2021-03-25T01:00:33 < karlp> having my photo archives on the other side of this link is no longer cool.
2021-03-25T01:01:11 < ventYl> you can always recode your stuff into interlaced jpegs
2021-03-25T01:01:16 < karlp> no.
2021-03-25T01:01:19 < ventYl> and/or interlaced gif89a
2021-03-25T01:01:25 < karlp> wow, that's a throwback
2021-03-25T01:01:35 < ventYl> then you can use pigeons to browse your photo albums
2021-03-25T01:01:40 < ventYl> one-floopy-at-time
2021-03-25T01:02:12  * ventYl used to have swap on floppy in order to be able to start pppd
2021-03-25T01:09:13 < Steffanx> Used to?
2021-03-25T01:10:02 < ventYl> bonus 1.7MB of "RAM"
2021-03-25T01:10:11 < ventYl> is some 20% boost, if all you have are 8MB
2021-03-25T01:10:32 < ventYl> running swap on 1.7MB floppy on 486 gives word "slow" completely new meaning
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2021-03-25T03:54:19 < basdb> bah apparently the GCT USB4085 USB-C receptacle has through holes with 0.45mm hole-to-hole spacing, but JLCPCB has a "capability" of 0.5mm hole-to-hole
2021-03-25T03:54:32 < basdb> i feel like 0.45mm is close enough to 0.5mm that I can _probably_ send it?
2021-03-25T03:55:24 < basdb> thots? pears?
2021-03-25T03:56:53 < englishman> send it
2021-03-25T03:57:58 < englishman> hole to hole is .85 on that one tho
2021-03-25T03:58:40 < englishman> these chinkfab companies have chinkfab pcbs in mind, remember
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2021-03-25T04:58:35 < basdb> ah shite everyone's completely bone dry on STM32F051R4T6's
2021-03-25T04:58:38 < basdb> balls
2021-03-25T04:59:08 < basdb> standard lead time of 52 weeks smh
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2021-03-25T05:03:11 < basdb> bless the brits, this quirky RS Components company had them in stock
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2021-03-25T06:28:30 < upgrdman> anyone know if STM32CubeIDE has an offline mode or hack? it's always pulling shit from their servers :/
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2021-03-25T09:58:16 < qyx> is there anything to calibrate on a Ultra High Precision Z Foil Though-Hole Resistor
2021-03-25T09:58:19 < qyx> with TCR of ±0.2 ppm/°C, Tolerance of ±0.005% (50 ppm),
2021-03-25T09:58:22 < qyx> Load Life Stability of ±0.005%
2021-03-25T10:01:06 < qyx> lets check the tolerance of a super high precision rlc meter
2021-03-25T10:03:40 < Steffanx> englishman is all about calibration lately. 
2021-03-25T10:05:29 < qyx> a super pro keysight says DC Accuracy ± (% of reading + % of range) 0.0020 + 0.0005
2021-03-25T10:06:00 < qyx> thats not that much better that the resistor itself
2021-03-25T10:06:09 < qyx> *than
2021-03-25T10:19:51 < jpa-> if stability is the same order as tolerance, it doesn't seem calibration would do much good
2021-03-25T10:30:32 < qyx> the stability is given for extreme temperatures, worst case
2021-03-25T10:31:04 < qyx> probably it is much better with -10 to +45 °C but who knows
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2021-03-25T11:44:45 < englishman> lets see qyx
2021-03-25T11:44:48 < englishman> whats the resistance
2021-03-25T11:45:10 < englishman> 3458a should be able to do that if its <1meg
2021-03-25T11:45:49 < qyx> the ref is 100K
2021-03-25T11:45:58 < qyx> the actual sensor is 10K NTC
2021-03-25T11:46:20 < qyx> which has 100K at -20 °C
2021-03-25T11:48:55 < englishman> 34465a isn't good enough
2021-03-25T11:49:08 < englishman> your local calib lab should do it no prob
2021-03-25T11:49:15 < englishman> unless you dont need 50ppm of course
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2021-03-25T15:14:37 < Laurenceb> >one page of javashit is using >0.5GB memory
2021-03-25T15:14:43 < Laurenceb> the state of javashit
2021-03-25T15:15:02 < Laurenceb> at least I can kill individual processes in failfox
2021-03-25T15:25:43 < karlp> http://tweak.net.au/pics2/2021/March/geldingadalur/page_1.html
2021-03-25T15:25:53 < karlp> bloggin.
2021-03-25T15:28:17 < qyx> is that you
2021-03-25T15:28:34 < karlp> yar
2021-03-25T15:28:40 < karlp> from tuesday.
2021-03-25T15:31:46 < englishman> quality blogs
2021-03-25T15:32:27 -!- specing_ [~specing@unaffiliated/specing] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-25T15:34:06 < karlp> last night ws even more people, I can't find any of the pics of it, but steady continuos stream of headlights back and forth.
2021-03-25T15:34:12 < qyx> oh wurstchen
2021-03-25T15:34:12 < englishman> thanks karl that's awesome
2021-03-25T15:34:30 < karlp> i'm hoping to get back out for twilight over the next few days.
2021-03-25T15:34:50 < qyx> how long do you expect the thing to flow?
2021-03-25T15:35:04  * karlp shrugs
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2021-03-25T15:35:29 < karlp> there's some talk comparing it to kilaeueueueeue(s) based on depth of the magma and slow steady flow rate, so... 10-15 years.
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2021-03-25T15:35:33 < karlp> could also stop at any time.
2021-03-25T15:36:16 < karlp> the geo nerds are excited as it's coming frrom very deep, 18km or something, so straight frrom the mantle, not from a crustal resovoir
2021-03-25T15:36:16 < qyx> uhm ok I was expecting something like 10-15 days
2021-03-25T15:38:23 < karlp> if we could just get this of this fucking covid, we'd have tourism back in action again
2021-03-25T15:38:37 < karlp> as it is, we have tourists ignoring quarantine anyway.
2021-03-25T15:38:54  * karlp grumbles at quarantine not being forced properly.
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2021-03-25T15:52:26 < karlp> hah, they've setup a counter on the walking track now.
2021-03-25T15:52:34 < karlp> 4700 just yesterday alone.
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2021-03-25T15:59:03 < karlp> https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10165483670460529&set=pcb.10165483670760529 don't know if that works?
2021-03-25T16:03:51 < ventYl> eh, volcano traffic jam
2021-03-25T16:09:43 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@unaffiliated/mangy-dog/x-3069595] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-25T16:26:32 < Sadale> I've found an passive electromagnetic buzzer that has operating voltage rated at 5V. I wonder what'd happen if I apply a voltage that's slightly higher, says, 5.3V.
2021-03-25T16:29:50 < jpa-> it'll work just fine
2021-03-25T16:30:04 < jpa-> if it has a good datasheet, it will probably even list tolerances
2021-03-25T16:30:59 < Sadale> In fact the rated voltage is 3V. And it said that the operating voltage range is 2~5V.
2021-03-25T16:31:34 < Sadale> And I've looked up a bit info on this kind of buzzer as well. It seems that it just has a dumb coil inside. So I guess overvoltage is ...fine?
2021-03-25T16:31:39 < Sadale> I'm not quite sure actually
2021-03-25T16:38:35 < jpa-> why not just put a series resistor?
2021-03-25T16:42:14 < Sadale> I'm thinking about that as well. But how do I calculate the value of the series resistor?
2021-03-25T16:44:50 < Sadale> For another project I've tried using a series resistor. But I think I've used a value that's too large and it made the buzzer too quiet. :( I used the max rated current to derive the required resistance. I'm wonder if that's the actual way to calculate the minimum serial resistance to be used.
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2021-03-25T16:55:49 < vegii> Sadale: SMD buzzer?
2021-03-25T16:56:04 < Sadale> vegii, nah. thruhole.
2021-03-25T16:56:58 < vegii> I'd say give it a series resistor and a decoupling capacitor, and switch it low side with a fet to ground
2021-03-25T16:57:00 < Sadale> I'm now thinking if I should purchase the series resistor for that. I've reserved a place for soldering the resistor. But if I wish to get the resistor I'd have to make an order.
2021-03-25T16:57:22 < Sadale> The thing is, I want it loud.
2021-03-25T16:57:35 < Sadale> I do have a weak pull-down on the FET tho.
2021-03-25T16:58:23 < vegii> 5.3V is probably fine if you don't leave it on for long
2021-03-25T16:58:51 < Sadale> vegii, This is the particular model I've purchased BTW. Their test circuit doesn't have a series resistor either: http://www.huawha.com/content/?84.html
2021-03-25T16:59:02 < Sadale> yeah that's what I thought. Just slightly overvolt.
2021-03-25T16:59:12 < BrainDamage> jus pwm the buzzer
2021-03-25T16:59:26 < BrainDamage> the coil will act as lowpass
2021-03-25T16:59:44 < Sadale> interesting. So the "max" current there is actually the average current of the PWM? :o
2021-03-25T16:59:49 < BrainDamage> then you can tweak the volumme oo
2021-03-25T17:00:13 < vegii> Sadale: I'd add a RC filter on top of that circuit
2021-03-25T17:00:18 < BrainDamage> the max current is average of pwm + ripple peak :p
2021-03-25T17:00:36 < Sadale> vegii, hmm. That's be indeed safer.
2021-03-25T17:00:46 < vegii> Sadale: What if the buzzer fails short? you'll be shorting your 5V
2021-03-25T17:00:59 < vegii> so series resistor and a cap after it
2021-03-25T17:01:25 < vegii> like 1uF-ish mlcc
2021-03-25T17:01:45 < vegii> it will make it louder
2021-03-25T17:02:07 < Sadale> vegii, how do I connect the capacitor? Is that in parallel with the buzzer?
2021-03-25T17:03:18 < vegii> Sadale: No, between buzzer's V+ and GND. Bypass/decoupling cap
2021-03-25T17:03:26 < Sadale> ah!
2021-03-25T17:04:14 < Sadale> vegii, interesting. How'd that help if the buzzer failed and get shorted then?
2021-03-25T17:04:30 < vegii> Your resistor would be shorted, not a dead short
2021-03-25T17:04:49 < Sadale> oh right. damn I've forgot the resistor.
2021-03-25T17:05:01 < Sadale> hmm if that's the case why the cap would be needed?
2021-03-25T17:05:45 < BrainDamage> alternative solution: put the resistor below the transistor's emitter
2021-03-25T17:05:46 < Sadale> I suppose that it's just to ensure that the buzzer would have enough power?
2021-03-25T17:06:07 < BrainDamage> (Vbase - 0.7V)/resistor = current
2021-03-25T17:06:23 < BrainDamage> that works regardless if the coil is a short or not
2021-03-25T17:06:35 < vegii> Sadale: so for a tiny moment it would be operating at 5.3V from the capacitor, without a drop on the resistor
2021-03-25T17:06:50 < BrainDamage> so you get fixed current
2021-03-25T17:07:08 < BrainDamage> any extra voltage is droppedd by the bjt
2021-03-25T17:07:30 < vegii> I think my solution would be louder
2021-03-25T17:09:03 < vegii> Sadale: notice how when the tone changes, there is a sort of slight clicking sound. Especially when it gets to the nokia tune part. https://i.imgur.com/WH5SGGv.mp4
2021-03-25T17:10:01 < vegii> The jumper is for connecting the capacitor I've mentioned. It makes a huge difference at higher resistor values.
2021-03-25T17:10:26 < Sadale> interesting. You actually have experimented with that.
2021-03-25T17:11:42 < Sadale> vegii, so that's an 100ohm resistor, isn't it?
2021-03-25T17:12:00 < vegii> yes
2021-03-25T17:12:09 < Sadale> cool! That's actually a pretty high value
2021-03-25T17:12:29 < vegii> I was experimenting with stuff that could work off of a cr2032 without causing a brownout
2021-03-25T17:13:47 < vegii> actually I don't remember the precise value of the cap, something in the 1uF-10uF ballpark, 0603
2021-03-25T17:14:31 < vegii> the higher the value, the more clicking at significant resistor values
2021-03-25T17:14:48 < Sadale> Electrically speaking, I wonder what a eletromagnetic buzzer is. Is that like a inductor plus resistor connected in series?
2021-03-25T17:15:48 < Sadale> Anyway I still think that 100ohm may be too large if the max current is 80mA (at 5.3V voltage supply)
2021-03-25T17:17:22 < vegii> I have it connected to 3.3V
2021-03-25T17:17:49 < Sadale> That's make the current even smaller.
2021-03-25T17:17:54 < Sadale> That'd *
2021-03-25T17:24:57 < karlp> nice, st explicitly links to a particular aliexpress shop for the "requirements" for this course: https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/support/learning/stm32-education/stm32-moocs/STM32WB_workshop_MOOC.html
2021-03-25T17:27:13 < Sadale> That's interesting. I thought that aliexpress weren't reliable at all
2021-03-25T17:36:59 < Sadale> vegii, just to confirm about the cap. Assume that I'm connecting the series resistor like this: 5V -> resistor -> buzzer -> FET -> GND. For one side of the cap, it's connected to the ground. For the other side of the cap, do I just connect it to 5V (like a normal decouping cap) or do I connect it to the lower voltage side of the resistor?
2021-03-25T17:39:38 < Sadale> vegii, never mind I've found the answer in your vid. And thanks.
2021-03-25T17:46:37 < vegii> Sadale: https://i.imgur.com/FO4zGOi.png
2021-03-25T17:47:38 < vegii> I went crazy with caps, probably unnecessarily
2021-03-25T17:47:47 < Sadale> vegii, thanks. That's what I thought you were doing based on your vid
2021-03-25T17:48:00 < Sadale> yep. That's a lot of caps indeed.
2021-03-25T17:48:21 < Sadale> 1k resistor tho. That's too much
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2021-03-25T17:48:53 < Sadale> vegii, Coincidentally I'm using the identical FET as well.
2021-03-25T17:48:55 < vegii> actually, with caps even 4k7 is... quiet but not too quiet for my needs
2021-03-25T17:49:50 < Sadale> ah. You want it quiet.
2021-03-25T17:50:06 < Sadale> I want it loud because it's a clock alarm.
2021-03-25T17:50:39 < vegii> I want it low power and use tricks to make it louder
2021-03-25T17:51:41 < Sadale> oh.
2021-03-25T17:51:47 < Sadale> I wonder if piezo would be more power efficient
2021-03-25T17:52:57 < Sadale> not sure about its loudness tho
2021-03-25T17:53:57 < vegii> I'm constrained with space
2021-03-25T17:54:32 < vegii> my buzzer is gonna be around 5x5x2.5mm
2021-03-25T17:56:21 < Sadale> ah. That kind of SMD buzzer.
2021-03-25T17:56:33 < vegii> yes
2021-03-25T17:57:15 < Sadale> I think I'll try out this kind of buzzer at later point of my life as well. It's compact.
2021-03-25T17:58:59 < vegii> the smallest I could find is DET402-G-1
2021-03-25T17:59:36 < vegii> 3*4.5*1.9mm
2021-03-25T17:59:49 < vegii> waiting for it to arrive
2021-03-25T18:00:10 < Sadale> vegii, professional project or hobbyist?
2021-03-25T18:01:20 < vegii> I'm unemployed, if that answers the question
2021-03-25T18:02:09 < Sadale> vegii, I meant if it's a mostly for-profit project or if it's a mostly for-fun project.
2021-03-25T18:02:39 < Sadale> vegii, and yes I'm very well aware of your employment situation. And I'm sorry to hear about that. :(
2021-03-25T18:04:00 < vegii> mostly for fun, but if it goes well I might try to take it further
2021-03-25T18:04:18 < Sadale> I see. Good luck! :)
2021-03-25T18:04:24 < vegii> thanks
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2021-03-25T18:22:56 < englishman> Knowledge of analog signal transmission protocols such as 4-20mA & 0-10V
2021-03-25T18:23:06 < englishman> found in a job description
2021-03-25T18:23:16 < englishman> does that make sense to anyone
2021-03-25T18:24:20 < englishman> are they just asking, do you know what voltage and current are
2021-03-25T18:24:26 < englishman> because we use both
2021-03-25T18:24:27 < mawk> lol
2021-03-25T18:27:55 < aandrew> englishman: heh
2021-03-25T18:28:07 < aandrew> yeah do you know what 4-20mA loop is and why it's not 0-20 and how to use it
2021-03-25T18:28:12 < aandrew> that's funny though
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2021-03-25T18:42:08 < tct> englishman, instant job opportunity
2021-03-25T18:42:42 < englishman> actually I was looking at the company to see if it is a good investment
2021-03-25T18:44:31 < tct> I guess you got your answer
2021-03-25T18:45:25 < jpa-> if you also know NET, XML & DLL, you'll be ready for any workplace
2021-03-25T18:45:55 < tct> also 25 years of experience working with node.js
2021-03-25T18:49:51 < Steffanx> It's just a test englishman 
2021-03-25T18:50:02 < Steffanx> They'll ask about it in the interview 
2021-03-25T18:52:53 < Steffanx> Did you get fired yet, tct?
2021-03-25T18:53:28 < tct> Steffanx, no. but I think I will give up on company stuff soon. really need a break. a year or two of regular employment sounds like a nice change.
2021-03-25T18:57:04 < englishman> or just go directly into retirement
2021-03-25T18:58:15 < Steffanx> I like the English man's idea
2021-03-25T19:03:52 < vegii> englishman: I heard that 4-20mA and 0-10V are common analog interfaces for PLCs, which are like your industrial arduinos, but programmed in a vendor-specific, visual ladder language
2021-03-25T19:08:07 < vegii> (and operating on 24V not 3.3V)
2021-03-25T19:09:07 < Steffanx> Everyone should use HART and foundation fieldbus and crap and pay 100k just for a certification
2021-03-25T19:10:32  * karlp lols in modbus
2021-03-25T19:11:36 < englishman> modbugs is also a job requirement
2021-03-25T19:11:48 < Steffanx> Like a pro
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2021-03-25T19:19:27 < Steffanx> Just thinking about foundation fieldbus makes me cry. Damn that's awful and expensive and shitty
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2021-03-25T19:37:58 < bitmask> man, im gonna have such clean drinking water
2021-03-25T19:39:00 < Laurenceb> https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/daca_images/simgad/12872352566400301873
2021-03-25T19:40:51 < bitmask> and?
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2021-03-25T21:12:52 < ventYl> karlp: got question
2021-03-25T21:18:28 < jpa-_> try asking whether you can ask a question
2021-03-25T21:18:32 -!- You're now known as jpa-
2021-03-25T21:20:52 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2021-03-25T21:21:07 < t4nk_freenode> GOT MILK?
2021-03-25T21:21:57 < t4nk_freenode> oh sorry.. milkyway!
2021-03-25T21:22:54 < ventYl> karlp: i just got STM32H7 and tried to build fdcan for it. and it is a mess. defines for NVIC IRQs have different naming than on G4 and are buggy. while it is pretty sure nobody used it until now, could I simply nuke the garbage and clean it up?
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2021-03-25T21:35:22 < zyp> karlp, the baseus thing arrived, looks nice
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2021-03-25T21:39:10 < BrainDamage> why the water?
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2021-03-25T21:59:06 < Steffanx> 65 wattts or more zyp ?
2021-03-25T22:01:04 < zyp> yeah, 65
2021-03-25T22:01:53 < zyp> it's the first PD source I have with more than one PD port
2021-03-25T22:02:52 < mawk> which water
2021-03-25T22:03:35 < Steffanx> oh i have that one too since a few weeks, after karlp  recommended it. Works like a charm indeed, and is pretty compact
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2021-03-25T22:45:58 < karlp> zyp: nice.
2021-03-25T22:46:06 < karlp> ventYl: what's wrong?
2021-03-25T22:46:28 < karlp> h7 was submitted by h7 using people, but there's more h7s now, it might need splitting to two families or something?
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2021-03-25T22:48:06 < karlp> Steffanx, zyp I think it was thorn or jadew actuallywho recommneded them to me, I'm just passing it along
2021-03-25T22:48:24 < Steffanx> ah alright. still thanks :)
2021-03-25T22:49:25 < ventYl> karlp: FDCAN related stuff has inconsistent naming
2021-03-25T22:49:57 < ventYl> + there are obvious bugs, like INTR2 IRQ for device, which ionly has INTR0 and INTR1
2021-03-25T22:52:40 < karlp> but I actually bought one and was happy, before I passed it along :)
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2021-03-25T22:53:44 < karlp> ventYl: chat with me in #libopencm3 if you want it to not get lost
2021-03-25T22:53:56 < karlp> which h7 are you working with? which RM #?
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2021-03-25T22:59:18 < ventYl> damn nickserv, U no broken?
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2021-03-25T23:00:02 < karlp> I just checked with RM0433r6, and yeah, there's an fd can error, I'll push that in a sec on the vector names, but what else are yu talking about?
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2021-03-25T23:02:17 < ventYl> karlp: by vector name, you refer to NVIC_FDCANx_ITx_IRQ define in h7/nvic.h ?
2021-03-25T23:02:40 < karlp> if you mean "_it0" vs "_intr0" differences, then thank ST
2021-03-25T23:02:54 < ventYl> i expected that
2021-03-25T23:03:00 < karlp> we try and say, "use the name from the ref man" and at least the ref man revisions I have, they have differt names for them.
2021-03-25T23:03:04 < ventYl> yet there is IT2_IRQ, which doesn't exist
2021-03-25T23:03:13 < karlp> yes, that's an error, I'll fix that.
2021-03-25T23:03:14 < ventYl> there's a typo
2021-03-25T23:03:23 < karlp> what else are you takling about though?
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2021-03-25T23:03:43 < karlp> Imean, it would be nice if the vectors had the same names, sure, but that means _somone_ has to use names that don't match their ref manuals.
2021-03-25T23:03:46 < karlp> and that sucks too.
2021-03-25T23:03:58 < ventYl> hm, for errors it is all for now
2021-03-25T23:04:04 < karlp> so no, you can't just junk that replace immediately on that,if that's what you were talking about.
2021-03-25T23:04:10 < ventYl> i only had chance to work with it for about two hours
2021-03-25T23:04:12 < karlp> it's justthe it2 error then right?
2021-03-25T23:04:18 < ventYl> for now
2021-03-25T23:05:31 < karlp> ther eyoua re
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2021-03-25T23:05:59 < ventYl> i wonder how ST got different interrupt names for same peripheral they licensed from Bosch
2021-03-25T23:06:04 < ventYl> how is that even possible?
2021-03-25T23:06:11 < karlp> different people writing the manuals
2021-03-25T23:06:16 < karlp> h7 andg4 are quite different
2021-03-25T23:06:23 < karlp> they're not even in the same orders or positions
2021-03-25T23:06:51 < ventYl> yeah, but the portions related to FDCAN are almost word-to-word copy of Bosch M-CAN manual
2021-03-25T23:07:39 < ventYl> nevermind, it can be made working
2021-03-25T23:08:31  * karlp shrugs
2021-03-25T23:08:35 < karlp> not my monkeys sorry
2021-03-25T23:08:40 < zyp> you should look at the gd32 manual
2021-03-25T23:08:54 < ventYl> oh noes
2021-03-25T23:09:04 < zyp> gd32f103 clones stm32f103, but everything is renamed :)
2021-03-25T23:09:05 < ventYl> i like my tea in gaiwan, not on paper
2021-03-25T23:09:26 < zyp> they renumbered all the peripherals starting with 0 instead of 1
2021-03-25T23:09:26 < karlp> and, iirc, gd32f150 is like half f103 and half f4....
2021-03-25T23:09:35 < zyp> perhaps
2021-03-25T23:09:46 < zyp> I haven't actually looked at gd32f103, just gd32vf103
2021-03-25T23:09:53 < ventYl> is it possible to use it at least somehow?
2021-03-25T23:09:54 < ventYl> blinky?
2021-03-25T23:09:58 < zyp> which is mostly f103 plus dwc_otg
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2021-03-25T23:10:19 < karlp> there's some gd32 suport in locm3, but I pushed back on some of the butchery people wanted to do, so they left....
2021-03-25T23:10:35 < zyp> ventYl, I took working usb code from stm32 and put it on the gd32vf103 and it worked without much stress
2021-03-25T23:10:50 < ventYl> that's actually better than I expected
2021-03-25T23:11:13 < zyp> I mean, I had to recompile it for risc-v obviously
2021-03-25T23:11:23 < zyp> but the dwc_otg core works the same
2021-03-25T23:11:48 < ventYl> karlp: on the other side, I took look on how H7 implements message RAM and much of those fugly routines calculating message RAM offsets could be removed
2021-03-25T23:12:04  * karlp seems to remember saying something like that..... ;)
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2021-03-25T23:14:36 < ventYl> ofc manual sucks, so I have to perform trial and error to actually determine what the values in registers actually mean
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2021-03-25T23:48:28 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used tables of contents in libreoffice?
2021-03-25T23:48:35 < Laurenceb> I cant get it to work
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--- Day changed Fri Mar 26 2021
2021-03-26T00:02:02 < Laurenceb> come on
2021-03-26T00:02:11 -!- c4017w__ [~c4017@209.52.68.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-26T00:02:12 < Laurenceb> someone has got to have used libreoffice
2021-03-26T00:02:20 < Laurenceb> this shit is making me reeeeee
2021-03-26T00:03:48 < t4nk_freenode> I sometimes wish there were a special channel orsth where I could ask if I were allowed to ask a question about it :|
2021-03-26T00:04:46 < Steffanx> try ##stm32 t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-26T00:04:52 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-03-26T00:05:07 < t4nk_freenode> hang on, I got libreoffice!
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2021-03-26T00:15:13 < Laurenceb> heh I "fixed it"
2021-03-26T00:15:18 < Laurenceb> just manually wrote it
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2021-03-26T00:16:07 < Steffanx> no, just no Laurenceb 
2021-03-26T00:16:16 < Steffanx> thats is like primary school grade
2021-03-26T00:16:37 < Laurenceb> well nothing else is working and I dont care
2021-03-26T00:16:49 < Laurenceb> just set the styles so it looks the same
2021-03-26T00:18:09 < Steffanx> > Spends hours wanking over whatever woman rights uk blalba
2021-03-26T00:18:18 < Steffanx> > cannot spend 2 minutes on doing something properly.
2021-03-26T00:18:28 < t4nk_freenode> > doesn't care
2021-03-26T00:19:32 < t4nk_freenode> > though just having reeeeee'ed
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2021-03-26T00:20:02 < Laurenceb> >2minutes
2021-03-26T00:20:12 < Laurenceb> been reeing at this for 2 hours moar liek
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2021-03-26T00:31:33 < Laurenceb> looks like libreoffice is unable to track different types of enumeration
2021-03-26T00:31:48 < Laurenceb> so numbered sections or bullet points break the next chapter heading
2021-03-26T00:31:59 < Laurenceb> then contents doesnt work at all
2021-03-26T00:32:41 < Laurenceb> I'm guessing some sort of variable name conflict with the word template I'm using
2021-03-26T00:32:49 < Laurenceb> bet this would work in latex...
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2021-03-26T02:29:11 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-03-26T02:33:23 < mawk> i
2021-03-26T02:46:43 < Steffanx> O
2021-03-26T03:03:55 < kakium69> musics?
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2021-03-26T05:50:39 < Ultrasauce> kakium69: bit different from usual but i keep getting this stuck in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=879ysA4h9r4
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2021-03-26T11:08:57 < Steffanx> Poor you Ultrasauce 
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2021-03-26T11:51:21 < karlp> good job st, still generating makefiles with broken paths in them
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2021-03-26T12:28:02 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-03-26T12:28:29 < Laurenceb> is it possible to connect multiple devices to 10/100 ethernet in parallel?
2021-03-26T12:28:47 < Laurenceb> without a switch
2021-03-26T12:29:51 < effractur> what do you mean in parralel?
2021-03-26T12:30:10 < zyp> no
2021-03-26T12:30:18 < effractur> well yes
2021-03-26T12:30:26 < Laurenceb> I thought this was the way ethernet worked?>
2021-03-26T12:30:35 < jpa-> hub's are not simply in parallel
2021-03-26T12:30:38 < Laurenceb> or is that not true at PHY level?
2021-03-26T12:30:40 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-26T12:30:41 < effractur> 10base2 right?
2021-03-26T12:30:44 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-26T12:30:45 < zyp> if you're talking about 10base-t or 100base-t those are point to point modes
2021-03-26T12:30:51 < jpa-> https://www.eeweb.com/wp-content/uploads/articles-articles-the-setting-of-a-passive-ethernet-hub-1326382960.gif
2021-03-26T12:31:03 < effractur> but the base-t stuff is alle p2p
2021-03-26T12:31:16 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-26T12:31:21 < zyp> there are some new multidrop standards though
2021-03-26T12:31:25 < effractur> but 10BASE5 is possible
2021-03-26T12:31:32 < zyp> 10base-t1l
2021-03-26T12:32:14 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-03-26T12:32:21 < Laurenceb> can stm32 drive that?
2021-03-26T12:32:56 < effractur> with the correct phy 
2021-03-26T12:32:56 < zyp> stm32 mac doesn't care about the phy layer as long as it can talk RMII to the phy
2021-03-26T12:33:02 < effractur> yes
2021-03-26T12:33:08 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-03-26T12:33:27 < zyp> should work with something like this: https://www.ti.com/product/DP83TD510E
2021-03-26T12:34:01 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-03-26T12:34:06 < Laurenceb> better than rs485
2021-03-26T12:34:31 < zyp> yeah, I think of it as a fdcan-competitor
2021-03-26T12:34:32 < jadew> I just got chipped
2021-03-26T12:34:34 < effractur> Laurenceb: an other potion is 
2021-03-26T12:34:45 < effractur> ther are 3 port hubs
2021-03-26T12:34:57 < zyp> yeah
2021-03-26T12:35:04 < zyp> 3 port switches, you mean
2021-03-26T12:35:04 < effractur> assumng htat all is always on
2021-03-26T12:35:11 < effractur> zyp: yea or a switch
2021-03-26T12:35:35 < zyp> the problem with those is that you get store and forward latency per device in the chain
2021-03-26T12:36:06 < effractur> depends on the kind of IC but yes
2021-03-26T12:36:48 < zyp> there's like one IC on the market that supports turning off the switching functionality and acting as a dumb hub, and it doesn't work
2021-03-26T12:37:03 < zyp> I've used it.
2021-03-26T12:38:08 < zyp> if you know of other options, I'd like to hear them, because that's still an unsolved problem that I'll probably have to deal with at some point
2021-03-26T12:38:48 < effractur> you could take a KSZ8873MLL
2021-03-26T12:38:54 < effractur> that has 2 phys build in afaik
2021-03-26T12:38:58 < effractur> and one MII / RMII port
2021-03-26T12:39:58 < zyp> it does store and forward
2021-03-26T12:40:28 < Laurenceb> https://www.relcominc.com/apl-technical-information
2021-03-26T12:40:42 < Laurenceb> >10BASE-T1L is only point to point
2021-03-26T12:40:46 < Laurenceb> annoying if true
2021-03-26T12:40:56 < zyp> effractur, the one we used was KSZ8893MQ
2021-03-26T12:41:03 < effractur> it does support static MAC entries
2021-03-26T12:41:18 < zyp> Laurenceb, ah, my bad, I meant -t1s
2021-03-26T12:41:30 < Laurenceb> yeah but thats <15m :(
2021-03-26T12:42:01 < effractur> zyp: but how terrible is the latency then? it should not be that bad with QoS configured i guess
2021-03-26T12:42:42 < zyp> it depends on the application
2021-03-26T12:43:30 < effractur> and the amount of hops probaly matter etc
2021-03-26T12:44:13 < zyp> in my case, the protocol is using a request/response pattern, which with a repeater means that the time required to query all devices is O(n^2)
2021-03-26T12:44:47 < effractur> but that sounds more like a bandwith issue
2021-03-26T12:45:54 < zyp> no, the issue is that the number of queries to send scales linearly with the number of devices, and the average time to get a response to one scales with average number of hops, which also scales linearly with the number of devices
2021-03-26T12:47:10 < zyp> we want to run an update rate of 1000Hz, but even with only ten devices that's impossible
2021-03-26T12:47:19 < effractur> mm interesting 
2021-03-26T12:47:28 < effractur> never really had that issue 
2021-03-26T12:47:57 < effractur> but that is with a lot more expensive switch asics etc
2021-03-26T12:48:11 < effractur> and running with 10mbit or 100mbit?
2021-03-26T12:49:03 < effractur> but i guess oging then for a tree fanout design is maybe better
2021-03-26T12:49:06 < jpa-> zyp: can't you send the queries in parallel?
2021-03-26T12:49:12 < effractur> or just a full ring
2021-03-26T12:49:24 < jpa-> or multicast :)
2021-03-26T12:49:47 < zyp> jpa-, well, the protocol is designed to run on hubs, so it doesn't do that to avoid collisions :)
2021-03-26T12:49:51 < zyp> also deterministic timing
2021-03-26T12:50:12 < zyp> also, it is multicast based, devices can read other devices' responses
2021-03-26T12:50:20 < effractur> and running half or full duplex
2021-03-26T12:50:37 < effractur> well so just use FF:FF:FF:FF:FF as mac
2021-03-26T12:50:39 < effractur> and done :P
2021-03-26T12:50:46 < effractur> your switch is now a hub
2021-03-26T12:51:25 < zyp> no, it's not
2021-03-26T12:51:31 < zyp> it still does store and forward
2021-03-26T12:51:35 < effractur> even a hub
2021-03-26T12:51:39 < effractur> does store and forward
2021-03-26T12:51:45 < zyp> no, it does not
2021-03-26T12:51:50 < effractur> depends on the hub
2021-03-26T12:52:00 < effractur> same swith switches
2021-03-26T12:52:07 < effractur> there are enough cut trough asics around
2021-03-26T12:52:11 < effractur> that don't do store and forward
2021-03-26T12:52:22 < effractur> store and forward is just an design of the asic
2021-03-26T12:54:28 < karlp> cut through is still store and forward though.  it's just "less cpu" for the switching node.
2021-03-26T12:54:36 < karlp> it doesn't magically turn it into a hub.
2021-03-26T12:55:43 < jpa-> isn't cut through a dozen bytes worth of latency, instead of a whole packet of latency
2021-03-26T12:56:15 < karlp> sure, but that's still not a hub
2021-03-26T12:56:27 < karlp> and I mean, is _anything_ actualyl still store and forward?
2021-03-26T12:56:33 < effractur> karlp: yea
2021-03-26T12:56:38 < karlp> ~everythign has been cutthrough for decades aiui
2021-03-26T12:56:45 < effractur> cuttrough forwards the packet while it is beeing proccessed
2021-03-26T12:56:57 < effractur> karlp: some shitty lowend stuff 
2021-03-26T12:57:12 < karlp> still? even cheap junk I bought years ago was cut through,
2021-03-26T12:57:27 < karlp> I wouldn't have thought you could actually _get_ store and forward these days
2021-03-26T12:58:08 < karlp> Imean, software shit, sure, but anythign with a switch asic...
2021-03-26T12:58:41 < karlp> now, wb nucleo board doesnt' come up in dfu mode.  great docs on this shit
2021-03-26T12:59:47 < effractur> the one zyp linked is still store and forward
2021-03-26T13:00:32 < karlp> the one zyp linked is a single port phy? what?
2021-03-26T13:00:44 < effractur> the KSZ8893MQ
2021-03-26T13:03:10 < karlp> huh, that's so weird.
2021-03-26T13:03:27 < effractur> it also uses a shared buffer 
2021-03-26T13:03:35 < effractur> where as more modern stuff does a per port buffer
2021-03-26T13:03:36 < karlp> dropping all that sram for buffes seems so dumb when cut through has been aroudn for decades
2021-03-26T13:03:51 < effractur> well you still need some buffers for 10/100 conversion
2021-03-26T13:04:03 < effractur> but often you just slab a in/out buffer per port
2021-03-26T13:04:26 < karlp> and they don't need to be as big.
2021-03-26T13:04:56 < effractur> marvell makes some nice stuff but not in small port counts 
2021-03-26T13:05:02 < effractur> for industrial/automotive stuff
2021-03-26T13:44:04 < jpa-> now this must be the most fucked up instrument control protocol yet; JDS6600 command parsing depends on delay between bytes on the usb serial line
2021-03-26T13:52:51 < mawk> nice
2021-03-26T13:54:22 < karlp> zyp: you mentioned you think you busted your stm32wb by making it unflashable?  there's a nteo in the footnotes that "Starting from FUS V1.1.0 the safeboot is modified to perform a factory reset instead of
2021-03-26T13:54:23 < karlp> locking the device"
2021-03-26T13:58:19 < karlp> hrm, looks like option bytes are setup out of the box to ignore boot0 pin, so docs from st recommending a jumper there to do upgrades just... don't work.
2021-03-26T13:59:34 < Steffanx> Haha yes isn't it an nice default karlp?
2021-03-26T13:59:38 < Steffanx> G0 has that too
2021-03-26T14:00:24 < Steffanx> It's not just nucleo default it's..  chip default
2021-03-26T14:09:33 < karlp> honestly, this getting started with wb has been fucking atrocious
2021-03-26T14:09:49 < karlp> I feel like there's mountains of info, and none of it's useful or reelvant.
2021-03-26T14:09:59 < karlp> I've _still_ not gotten a basic bt hack demo built.
2021-03-26T14:10:29 < karlp> FUS_STATE_IMG_NOT_AUTHENTIC
2021-03-26T14:11:45 < karlp> hah
2021-03-26T14:12:03 < karlp> you need to upgrade from 0.5.3 to 1.0.2 _first_ then to 1.1.x, which is not documented...
2021-03-26T14:12:09 < karlp> thankfulyl both binaries are incldued.
2021-03-26T14:18:58 < karlp> ok, fucking finally go their demo working
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2021-03-26T14:51:48 < englishman> what's the best usb3 analyzer
2021-03-26T14:52:18 < englishman> Beagle rings a bell
2021-03-26T14:52:38 < englishman> i think the Teledyne one was to be avoided?
2021-03-26T14:58:32 < Steffanx> I dont expect many people to have experience with that here
2021-03-26T15:00:16 < karlp> englishman: that matches my recollection of the last conversation
2021-03-26T15:00:27 < karlp> but I wasn't sure anyone had actually tried the usb3 ones from either
2021-03-26T15:00:41 < karlp> I'm really quite dissapointed with the state of desktop btle apps.
2021-03-26T15:00:58 < karlp> there's like over 9000 phone apps, with plotting and guis and all sorts of shit
2021-03-26T15:01:06 < karlp> and virtualyl nothing for desktops
2021-03-26T15:03:21 < Steffanx> What kind of plots? Nrf connect has some basic stuff
2021-03-26T15:06:05 < t4nk_freenode> King Zyt, euh Zyp is probably your best bet for an answer methinks
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2021-03-26T15:15:51 < Steffanx> He is camp beagle
2021-03-26T15:19:19 < karlp> Steffanx: nrfconnect requires you to have an nrf dongle with special firmware.
2021-03-26T15:19:39 < karlp> I want just like the "ble toolboxes" that run on your phone, using whatever ble hardware it present, using normal linux hci interface.
2021-03-26T15:22:24 < Steffanx> Yeah, sure. But it works fine karlp 
2021-03-26T15:22:28 < Steffanx> ;)
2021-03-26T15:24:18 < Steffanx> For development purposes that is
2021-03-26T15:25:01 < karlp> well, I don't have a nordic dongle, onyl a nordic eval board :)
2021-03-26T15:28:53 < englishman> zip is super smart but also dangerously opensores
2021-03-26T15:29:09 < englishman> most of the chats in here are fighting with opensores tools
2021-03-26T15:29:11 < karlp> not really.
2021-03-26T15:29:17 < karlp> zyp uses a beagle and loves it.
2021-03-26T15:29:28 < englishman> that seems to be the exception
2021-03-26T15:29:34 < karlp> he uses his own private sw, and he uses altium
2021-03-26T15:29:50 < karlp> his sw happens to be bsd licensed, but it's not like he's an OS zealot...
2021-03-26T15:30:12 < karlp> also, he's one of the few altium users who doesn't seem to complain about it constantly....
2021-03-26T15:30:29 < englishman> I love altium
2021-03-26T15:30:39 < karlp> so, two different stickers on this nucleo board, neither of them match the serial number that the stlink, or the target present in dfu mode.
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2021-03-26T15:32:19 < zyp> I like shit that works, and barring that I like shit that I can fix
2021-03-26T15:32:58 < zyp> the beagle 480 is great, but I've never tried the usb3 one
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2021-03-26T15:58:08 < karlp> bleh, got the demo working on the wb nucleo, cant' get the dongle programmed now.
2021-03-26T15:58:11 < karlp> fucking tedious
2021-03-26T16:01:13 < ventyl> those putting FDCAN together at ST must have started doing crack at some point
2021-03-26T16:02:40 < Steffanx> Whats your favourite drug ventyl ?
2021-03-26T16:03:18 < ventyl> most probably plaster of paris mixed with brake fluid and a bit of iron / alumina powder
2021-03-26T16:07:08 < karlp> yas
2021-03-26T16:07:13 < karlp> just reflash it enough....
2021-03-26T16:14:07 < karlp> hrm, ota from teh dongle to the nucleo fails though.
2021-03-26T16:21:04  * ventyl just used GDB as a versatile calculator
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2021-03-26T17:10:30 < Laurenceb> do modbus devices have a unique serial number?
2021-03-26T17:17:58 < Laurenceb> some datasheets seem to indicate that there is a unique id, but I cant see how it would be quiried over modbus
2021-03-26T17:18:07 < karlp> only if the vendor is nice enough to do so
2021-03-26T17:18:32 < karlp> it's often just a serial that you can read out from a known address.
2021-03-26T17:18:47 < karlp> it's still independent of the unit id.
2021-03-26T17:25:16 < PaulFertser> There's a special command "Report Slave ID" to get "identification card"
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2021-03-26T17:26:14 < karlp> which is completelty vendor defined response data, and isn't all that often implemented.
2021-03-26T17:26:21 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-03-26T17:29:12 < karlp> hrm, seems some of my problems are that the st demo apps onyl allow a single connection, so my phone was idling on them, which blocked the cube rf mon.
2021-03-26T17:29:20 < karlp> despite the hardware supporting multiple, and that being a useful usecase
2021-03-26T17:30:28 < karlp> lolrence, what are you really trying to do?
2021-03-26T17:31:34 < karlp> reliable auto detection of modbus devices given an rs485 connection alone is not all that great, very much depends on what's connected.
2021-03-26T17:32:06 < karlp> if you're implementing your own devices, i highly recommend putting a few magic fixed values at various spaces, and some product identiications somewhere too.
2021-03-26T17:32:39 < karlp> it's not very "omg ops3c secrtez" but it's very very "omg, reliabilty 9000%"
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2021-03-26T17:46:18 < Laurenceb> I dunno
2021-03-26T17:46:30 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to help out with a hyperloop side project
2021-03-26T17:46:43 < Laurenceb> they have designed a super overcomplex CAN based system 
2021-03-26T17:46:50 < Laurenceb> that monitors a few IO inputs
2021-03-26T17:47:16 < Laurenceb> I was wondering how fully they could replicate it with off the shelf modbus parts
2021-03-26T17:47:36 < Laurenceb> by replicate I mean get it working, atm they havent actually got as far as building anything
2021-03-26T17:48:20 < Laurenceb> they were thinking of using ethernet, but I wonder if they can just use off the shelf for everything
2021-03-26T17:49:13 < Laurenceb> it looks like a set of internal registers with unique id is fairly common
2021-03-26T17:49:30 < Laurenceb> so they could map that to the actual inputs onboard their raspberry pi
2021-03-26T17:50:52 < Laurenceb> so if some perman00b swaps IO units without updating the config then those inputs would just break
2021-03-26T17:55:19 < Laurenceb> hmm not using modbus for this looks more and more full retard the more I look at it
2021-03-26T18:01:41 < Laurenceb> this is like 10 minutes with a rpi, not ten months with custom hardware
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2021-03-26T18:13:40 < englishman> sounds like a job for esp32 or yeah a shitberreypi Zero
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2021-03-26T18:35:26 < Laurenceb> keeek
2021-03-26T18:35:34 < Laurenceb> yeah esp32 was suggested
2021-03-26T18:36:30 < Laurenceb> but itd need power so might as well send data along too, then there no rf to worry about
2021-03-26T18:40:33 < t4nk_freenode> wellwell.... I'd say this keyboard interface works well enough
2021-03-26T18:41:05  * t4nk_freenode tears a large clump of wires apart: Next project!
2021-03-26T18:45:21  * t4nk_freenode also shows great maturity and brilliance by including a small note with all the connections in the project dir
2021-03-26T18:46:17 < t4nk_freenode> fool me once, shame on ehhh you, fool you... euhhh .. ehm 'FOOLMECAN'TGETFOOLED AGAIN!' 
2021-03-26T18:58:43 < Laurenceb> keeek murica
2021-03-26T18:59:00 < Laurenceb> >no ubi if ur huwhite
2021-03-26T19:12:56 < karlp> esp32 without wifi is still valid :)
2021-03-26T19:13:05 < karlp> cheap and available....
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2021-03-26T19:27:11 < englishman> esp32 is the best
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2021-03-26T19:29:07 < karlp> except for the weird as hell sdk
2021-03-26T19:29:20 < karlp> and the incredibly slim datasheet that makes it impossibru to use it by hand.
2021-03-26T19:29:36 < jpa-> karlp: in all your search, have you found any sdk to be other than "weird as hell"? :)
2021-03-26T19:31:57 < karlp> hrm, honestly, the silabs stuff has worked pretty well
2021-03-26T19:32:11 < karlp> and the esp32 stuff was pretty good until you wanted to use things that wren't in teh sdk....
2021-03-26T19:32:29 < qyx> you m ean the esp-idf stuff?
2021-03-26T19:32:56 < karlp> I got demos working easily and without hassle on esp32 and silabs.  nrf I gave up on, and stm32wb I've struggled through on, hoping that the familiarity from other stm32 wille ventually make it worthwhile
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2021-03-26T20:00:29 < karlp> (to be fair, I was feeling really sharp when I was working on the esp32 and silabs, I've not felt at all smart this week)
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2021-03-26T20:44:39 < kakium69> the world's most expensive powerplant is finished
2021-03-26T20:45:52 < kakium69> after shooting through estimated budgets and build time like they were nothing
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2021-03-26T20:55:12 < Laurenceb> kakium69: wut
2021-03-26T20:55:18 < Laurenceb> the finnish reactor?
2021-03-26T20:55:45 < kakium69> Olkiluoto unit3 is being loaded with fuel
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2021-03-26T21:02:42 < kakium69> it's a proud moment for Finland
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2021-03-26T21:05:08 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-03-26T21:05:43 < Laurenceb> my uncle worked with Nuclear stuff
2021-03-26T21:07:29 < Laurenceb> at Dounray fast reactor
2021-03-26T21:14:48 < Steffanx> Was he a yellow guy?
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2021-03-26T21:16:07 < BrainDamage> the world most expensive powerplant isn't finished
2021-03-26T21:16:22 < BrainDamage> iter is still long way to the first fusion
2021-03-26T21:30:41 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station
2021-03-26T21:32:48 < boddax> me and greta we  like coal power plant with big black dirty smoke
2021-03-26T21:33:29 < kakium69> BrainDamage: does it produce electricity?
2021-03-26T21:33:44 < kakium69> or will it, could it should it?
2021-03-26T21:34:04 < BrainDamage> it should/will
2021-03-26T21:34:17 < BrainDamage> it's supposedly the first net positive fusion plant
2021-03-26T21:34:45 < BrainDamage> currently it's a money sinkhole and delay nightmare
2021-03-26T21:35:30 < kakium69> it has turbines and all shiet?
2021-03-26T21:36:19 < BrainDamage> yes, the most advanced nuclear reactors are still using the heat to boil water
2021-03-26T21:36:41 < BrainDamage> it's "just" fusion powered instead of fission
2021-03-26T21:37:32 < kakium69> then it is actually a power plant
2021-03-26T21:37:39 < kakium69> not just fusion experiment
2021-03-26T21:37:58 < kakium69> if you run reactor and dump the heat it's just a reactor
2021-03-26T21:38:20 < BrainDamage> it's an experiment until they manage to get it to work
2021-03-26T21:39:03 < kakium69> but it's also a power plant
2021-03-26T21:39:07 < PaulFertser> kakium69: iirc it has turbines but basically dumps the energy generated.
2021-03-26T21:39:27 < kakium69> PaulFertser: what would be point of that?
2021-03-26T21:39:49 < PaulFertser> kakium69: proof of concept
2021-03-26T21:39:52 < BrainDamage> that they demonstrate that it works, before they dump even more money and time in DEMO
2021-03-26T21:40:06 < BrainDamage> which is ITER, but bigger
2021-03-26T21:40:27 < BrainDamage> DEMO will actually sell electricity to the grid
2021-03-26T21:40:30 < kakium69> then it's not a power plant if it doesn't convert heat to anything
2021-03-26T21:40:47 < BrainDamage> it converts heat to electricity
2021-03-26T21:40:49 < PaulFertser> kakium69: it converts heat to electricity
2021-03-26T21:40:58 < kakium69> then it is a power plant
2021-03-26T21:41:02 < BrainDamage> what they'll do with it is still unknown
2021-03-26T21:41:17 < BrainDamage> if they'll dump it or put on the grid
2021-03-26T21:41:36 < BrainDamage> demo is the one that's supposedly 100% commercial
2021-03-26T21:42:41 < BrainDamage> I'd espect they'll dump it at first, then if it manages to work reliably they'll hook it up the grid
2021-03-26T21:42:54 < BrainDamage> so they can recover some money
2021-03-26T21:43:16 < BrainDamage> the problem of being grid tied is that you have to do what the grid controller says
2021-03-26T21:43:31 < BrainDamage> so you shut down if it says to shut down, etcc
2021-03-26T21:43:31 < PaulFertser> Oh, "In ITER, this heat will be captured by cooling water circulating in the vessel walls and eventually dispersed through cooling towers. In the type of fusion power plant envisaged for the second half of this century, the heat will be used to produce steam and—by way of turbines and alternators—electricity.
2021-03-26T21:43:38 < PaulFertser> https://www.iter.org/sci/makingitwork
2021-03-26T21:43:44 < PaulFertser> So probably kaki's right
2021-03-26T21:44:21 < BrainDamage> retrofitting steam turbines shouldn't be impossible
2021-03-26T21:45:26 < BrainDamage> they could also use it to heat homes
2021-03-26T21:45:36 < BrainDamage> nuclear powered stove
2021-03-26T21:47:13 < PaulFertser> https://www.iter.org/construction/CoolingTowerArea
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2021-03-26T22:23:44 < PaulFertser> It's interesting they talk about "rejected heat". Sounds counter-intuitive at first. Unless you think about the "heat rejector" part as of something that's designed to reject the heat directed at it.
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2021-03-26T22:37:26 < Laurenceb> https://notblackmagic.com/projects/
2021-03-26T22:37:28 < Laurenceb> nice stuff
2021-03-26T22:48:27 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: is it common to say "heat rejection"?
2021-03-26T22:48:36 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-03-26T23:18:23 < ventyl> english is sometimes weird
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2021-03-26T23:21:08 < kakium69> how is innovation Laurenceb?
2021-03-26T23:21:28 < kakium69> you still work for facebook?
2021-03-26T23:22:02 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-03-26T23:22:11 < Laurenceb> I work for hyperloop
2021-03-26T23:23:06 < kakium69> yes
2021-03-26T23:23:27 < kakium69> you really work for hyperloop?
2021-03-26T23:23:51 < kakium69> you work for musk?
2021-03-26T23:25:15 < BrainDamage> he works for a hyperloop competitor
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2021-03-26T23:25:58 < kakium69> he works for bezos?
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2021-03-26T23:41:39 < englishman> is bezos really Musk competition
2021-03-26T23:41:42 < englishman> his rocket doesn't even fly
2021-03-26T23:41:57 < englishman> and he has no hair
2021-03-26T23:42:18 < englishman> he's not even eccentric. he's into cuddling
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2021-03-26T23:44:04 < Steffanx> I like your positivity englishman 
2021-03-26T23:53:07 < mawk> bezos is the son of satan
2021-03-26T23:53:10 < mawk> look at his eyes englishman 
2021-03-26T23:53:13 < mawk> he's a madman
2021-03-26T23:55:59 < ventyl> to me that Facebook guy looked like an evil android
2021-03-26T23:56:20 < ventyl> I'd try to rip his synthetic skin look-alike off to see what he is made of
2021-03-26T23:56:35 < ventyl> either it is some titanium-based shit, or composite carbon nanotube stuff
--- Day changed Sat Mar 27 2021
2021-03-27T00:06:58 < englishman> probably actual human skin from the skin farms
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2021-03-27T00:21:02 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-27T00:21:14 < Laurenceb> I emailed him back in the day
2021-03-27T00:21:21 < Laurenceb> told him he was retarded lol
2021-03-27T00:21:35 < Laurenceb> kakium69: I work on hyperloop cloneware
2021-03-27T00:22:26 < Laurenceb> but when I emailed zuckerbot it was some weirdo "thefacebook" college yearbook nonsense
2021-03-27T00:22:36 < Laurenceb> shortly after that he redesigned it...
2021-03-27T00:22:40 < Laurenceb> sorry world
2021-03-27T00:23:23 < kakium69> lurencer knows personally like the whole scene
2021-03-27T00:24:09 < kakium69> he has musk on speeddial
2021-03-27T00:24:10 < Laurenceb> heh I got involved in student forumz/ exam cheating scene when I was still at school
2021-03-27T00:24:17 < Laurenceb> zuckerbot was involved too
2021-03-27T00:25:09 < Laurenceb> forumz where ppl discuss how to get into elite unis, uni student scene 
2021-03-27T00:26:29 < Laurenceb> he was a massive smartarse and totally absorbed in frat boy style super murican shit
2021-03-27T00:27:40 < Laurenceb> keeek I just remebered there were ppl on there doing experimental brain enhancing drugs and shit, wonder if he was into that
2021-03-27T00:28:12 < kakium69> shiet man
2021-03-27T00:28:30 < kakium69> you missed the experimental brain enhancers
2021-03-27T00:28:38 < Steffanx> Another one of those blaxter myths
2021-03-27T00:28:45 < kakium69> have you not seen the movie Limitless?
2021-03-27T00:29:06 < Steffanx> Not the series kakium69 ?
2021-03-27T00:29:18 < kakium69> just the movie
2021-03-27T00:30:15 < Laurenceb> that movie is retarded
2021-03-27T00:30:19 < kakium69> yes
2021-03-27T00:30:46 < kakium69> but the idea has some gravity to it
2021-03-27T00:31:42 < Laurenceb> wew riot is on in Bristol
2021-03-27T00:33:30 < kakium69> get me brain candy Lurencer
2021-03-27T00:34:05 < kakium69> those things that make me feel I have big brain
2021-03-27T00:34:13 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-03-27T00:34:21 < Laurenceb> exam cheating forums were fun
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2021-03-27T00:43:08 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: Stratosolar is the solution for energy :P
2021-03-27T01:04:16 < Laurenceb> >put in a ton of work to get into Cambridge
2021-03-27T01:04:24 < Laurenceb> >Victoria Bateman is your professor
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2021-03-27T01:40:42 < Laurenceb> arggg wtf
2021-03-27T01:40:56 < Laurenceb> >arm cortex brogrammer, ukp £70k/year
2021-03-27T01:41:04 < Laurenceb> just after I started hyperloop
2021-03-27T01:44:26 < Steffanx> It's easy to quit..
2021-03-27T01:45:02 < Laurenceb> hehe maybe I should apply to the other jerb
2021-03-27T01:45:19 < mawk> Laurenceb is our best brogrammer
2021-03-27T01:45:27 < mawk> listening to brostep probably
2021-03-27T01:45:31 < Laurenceb> looks like everyone was waiting to see if the vaccine worked before putting up their adverts
2021-03-27T01:47:03 < Laurenceb> hyperloop is fun but the pay is poor
2021-03-27T01:47:41 < mawk> well
2021-03-27T01:47:43 < mawk> then keep it
2021-03-27T01:47:46 < mawk> fun is worth something
2021-03-27T01:47:58 < mawk> I know I'm way underpaid but I stay at my job because it's fun
2021-03-27T01:48:08 < Laurenceb> not sure about the management tbh
2021-03-27T01:48:36 < Laurenceb> just fount out that the can bus guy has gone ahead and ordered pcbs...
2021-03-27T01:49:00 < Laurenceb> for his modbus io cloneware
2021-03-27T01:49:57 < Laurenceb> yesterday there was a rage mode argument over teams between managers
2021-03-27T01:50:04 < mawk> lol
2021-03-27T01:50:08 < mawk> yeah that sounds quite shitty
2021-03-27T01:50:14 < Laurenceb> >ree no we're using ethernet with power over ethernet
2021-03-27T01:50:16 < mawk> my management is quite cool
2021-03-27T01:50:21 < Laurenceb> >no non no we're using CAN bus
2021-03-27T01:50:22 < mawk> the manager talks to me about his couple and so on
2021-03-27T01:50:39 < Laurenceb> now the guy doing the actual work has ordered pcbs without getting the go ahead
2021-03-27T01:50:42 < mawk> I'm the official matriomonial couselor
2021-03-27T01:51:02 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-03-27T01:51:12 < Laurenceb> it pretty clearly should have used modbus over rs485
2021-03-27T01:51:22 < mawk> why
2021-03-27T01:52:11 < Laurenceb> simpler and there is off the shelf kit available
2021-03-27T01:52:43 < mawk> what are the arguments of the canbus guy
2021-03-27T01:52:49 < mawk> anyway he's doing the work
2021-03-27T01:52:55 < mawk> if he wants to have fun with can let him do it
2021-03-27T01:53:04 < Laurenceb> yeah lol
2021-03-27T01:53:09 < Laurenceb> he has used can bus before
2021-03-27T01:54:45 < Laurenceb> maybe it needs to look more pro than off the shelf modules lol
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2021-03-27T01:55:15 < Laurenceb> this is for an "in field monitoring as a service" thing for main Alstom company
2021-03-27T01:55:39 < Laurenceb> it does use a rpi at one end lol.. wont look very pro if someone opens the box
2021-03-27T01:56:37 < Laurenceb> stuff like jammed air con fan detection, door motor temperatures etc
2021-03-27T01:57:32 < Laurenceb> you pay a monthly fee and get access to a web portal
2021-03-27T01:58:58 < Laurenceb> I still dont understand how to stop it breaking if someone brakes up the train set and reconnects different carriages...
2021-03-27T02:00:22 < Laurenceb> I guess with CAN2.0 and CANopen each device can have a unique id
2021-03-27T02:01:07 < Laurenceb> maybe can is right after all lol.. anyway its not my problem :P
2021-03-27T02:05:14 < bitmask> well... shit...
2021-03-27T02:05:21 < bitmask> looks like I have Crohn's
2021-03-27T02:05:26 < Laurenceb> O_o
2021-03-27T02:05:36 < Laurenceb> is that serious?
2021-03-27T02:06:31 < bitmask> its progressive which I didn't realize, can cause some serious problems and possibly permanent discomfort if you dont respond to meds
2021-03-27T02:07:22 < bitmask> reading one site, says 2/3 - 3/4 of all those with crohn's will need surgery at some point to remove damaged tissue
2021-03-27T02:07:35 < Laurenceb> that sucks
2021-03-27T02:07:41 < Laurenceb> do you have free healthcare?
2021-03-27T02:08:28 < bitmask> ive felt like shit for years now, just started to get real bad last july and took to now to find a doctor I like who confirmed the diagnosis
2021-03-27T02:08:42 < bitmask> yea cause i havent been working
2021-03-27T02:08:52 < Laurenceb> murican?
2021-03-27T02:08:54 < bitmask> yea
2021-03-27T02:09:07 < Laurenceb> ah, my brother lives in Florida
2021-03-27T02:09:16 < bitmask> yuck :P
2021-03-27T02:09:18 < Laurenceb> he had a brain tumour a couple of years ago
2021-03-27T02:09:22 < Laurenceb> thats sucked
2021-03-27T02:09:24 < bitmask> oh damn
2021-03-27T02:09:30 < Laurenceb> yeah he recoveredok
2021-03-27T02:09:35 < bitmask> good
2021-03-27T02:09:51 < Laurenceb> luckily he had health insurance through his job
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2021-03-27T02:10:15  * Laurenceb likes in UK, much saner
2021-03-27T02:10:27 < bitmask> does he like florida? whenever you hear a crazy news story theres a 90% chance it was someone in florida haha
2021-03-27T02:11:00 < Laurenceb> I dunno.. he lived in Grenada for a while before
2021-03-27T02:11:04 < bitmask> its crazies and old people
2021-03-27T02:11:38 < Laurenceb> my aunt and loads of other relatives live in Jacksonville so its kind of his area
2021-03-27T02:11:45 < bitmask> ahh
2021-03-27T02:11:58 < Laurenceb> but I've never even visited lol
2021-03-27T02:12:25 < bitmask> ive been a few times, not jacksonville though
2021-03-27T02:12:41 < Laurenceb> my parents split up when I was about 4 and I went back to uk, I lived in Boston for a while
2021-03-27T02:12:48 < bitmask> mainly orlando, tourist center
2021-03-27T02:13:05 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-27T02:13:05 < bitmask> ahh I like boston, my aunt used to live there
2021-03-27T02:14:19 < Laurenceb> are there drugs to reduce the progression of Crohn's ?
2021-03-27T02:18:56 < bitmask> theres mesalamine which is I believe an NSAID that targets the intestines, ive been taking that for months and it just barely helps a little. I start steroids tomorrow for a few weeks to try to get it under control and in the next couple weeks the dr will be working with my insurance to get a biologic approved.  its an injection you get every couple weeks or something and its basically antibodies that stops your immune response
2021-03-27T02:19:35 < Laurenceb> that sucks :(
2021-03-27T02:19:37 < Laurenceb> good luck
2021-03-27T02:20:06 < bitmask> yea, at least I have a definitive diagnosis though, just feeling like crap and not knowing for sure and not being able to try any treatments is the worst
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2021-03-27T04:57:30 < mrec_> how comes that a timer is still generating an interrupt after resetting the counter?
2021-03-27T04:57:33 < mrec_> 		HAL_TIM_Base_Stop_IT(&htim6);
2021-03-27T04:57:36 < mrec_> is there anything wrong with that?
2021-03-27T04:57:38 < mrec_> 		__HAL_TIM_SET_COUNTER(&htim6, 0);
2021-03-27T04:57:41 < mrec_> 		HAL_TIM_Base_Start_IT(&htim6);
2021-03-27T04:57:47 < mrec_> tim6 is still generating its interrupt after a second
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2021-03-27T08:44:42 < jpa-> mrec_: what did you expect?
2021-03-27T08:44:58 < jpa-> after all you start it again, it won't stay 0
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2021-03-27T10:36:17 < mrec_> it worked just some wrong expectation on my side
2021-03-27T10:36:41 < mrec_> I'm just doing some frequency counter and the input was really too slow so the counter had enough time to overflow
2021-03-27T10:43:24 < qyx> anyone into erlang and rebar3?
2021-03-27T11:06:13 < srk> a bit
2021-03-27T11:06:52 < srk> managed to deploy https://github.com/gotthardp/lorawan-server recently
2021-03-27T11:06:58 < srk> ~1y ago
2021-03-27T11:06:59 < srk> :P
2021-03-27T11:21:32 < qyx> meh, installing a helium lorawan hotspot
2021-03-27T11:21:51 < qyx> the damned thing works when run as ./bin/miner but not with cd bin; ./miner
2021-03-27T11:23:18 < qyx> every single hipster is building a lorawan something in erlang, go and rust
2021-03-27T11:23:28 < qyx> whats wrong with the people
2021-03-27T11:23:42 < qyx> where are the days of C and C++
2021-03-27T11:23:57 < qyx> even python is acceptable
2021-03-27T11:24:00 < qyx> but but erlang, why
2021-03-27T11:25:13 < effractur> erlang is like
2021-03-27T11:25:17 < effractur> awsome
2021-03-27T11:26:08 < effractur> but would probaly go for elixer given that that is a bi tmore readable
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2021-03-27T13:19:39 < Laurenceb> whats the max usb endpoint size on stm32 ?
2021-03-27T13:19:57 < jpa-> you mean max packet size? 64 bytes for FS, 512 bytes for HS
2021-03-27T13:20:30 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-03-27T13:20:54 < Laurenceb> is that enforced by the hardware? because aiui usb spec says 1023bytes for FS isochronous
2021-03-27T13:21:32 < Laurenceb> bulk and control/interrupt is 64 bytes
2021-03-27T13:22:28 < jpa-> does it really? i'm not aware of such long packets for FS
2021-03-27T13:23:06 < jpa-> hmm yeah
2021-03-27T13:23:16 < jpa-> i don't know about how isochronous works
2021-03-27T13:23:50 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-27T13:24:15 < Laurenceb> how big is PMA on F4?
2021-03-27T13:24:56 < Laurenceb> I only need ~360bytes with double buffering so it should be ok
2021-03-27T13:25:23 < jpa-> doesn't reference manual tell?
2021-03-27T13:25:56 < Laurenceb> heh probably
2021-03-27T13:26:20 < jpa-> looks like at least G4 can do up to 1023 byte packets in isochronous mode
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2021-03-27T13:28:25 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-27T13:28:28 < Laurenceb> simples
2021-03-27T13:28:47 < Laurenceb> F4 is 768 bytes PMA according to chibios
2021-03-27T13:28:50 < jpa-> remember also that isochronous has no guarantee of delivery, if there is a CRC error the data is just dropped without retransmission
2021-03-27T13:29:03 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-03-27T13:29:25 < Laurenceb> lunix audio drivers have an annoying feature where the error status is hidden internally
2021-03-27T13:29:50 < Laurenceb> aiui lunix just repeats the previous sample on crc error
2021-03-27T13:31:23 < Laurenceb> not a big issue as usb bit flips are rare, but it'd be nice to have a setting where a NA code was sent from the low level driver on usb error
2021-03-27T13:32:06 < Laurenceb> you could add a packet number audio channel....
2021-03-27T13:34:28 < Laurenceb> or ""just"" recompile the kernel to add proper debug codes
2021-03-27T13:34:52 < jpa-> or just use bulk endpoint?
2021-03-27T13:35:36 < Laurenceb> it doesnt allow you to easily synchronise loads of data collection units
2021-03-27T13:36:02 < Steffanx> I'm still curious if Laurenceb is also over complicating things like the ethernet/can/modbus guys
2021-03-27T13:36:36 < Steffanx> Using oidio class for something that isn't oidio
2021-03-27T13:36:39 < Laurenceb> whats overcomplicated about usb audio?
2021-03-27T13:37:10 < Laurenceb> IO-dio
2021-03-27T13:37:26 < Steffanx> Oidio
2021-03-27T13:37:40 < jpa-> not sure about "easy", but i've used USB frame numbers to synchronize data collectors
2021-03-27T13:37:57 < jpa-> how accurate sync does usb audio give anyway?
2021-03-27T13:38:15 < Laurenceb> ~microseconds
2021-03-27T13:38:30 < jpa-> within one usb root hub or between several?
2021-03-27T13:38:41 < Laurenceb> between several
2021-03-27T13:38:50 < Laurenceb> but its mainly from stm32 lag
2021-03-27T13:39:01 < Laurenceb> that was with F0, with G4 it should be lower
2021-03-27T13:39:04 < jpa-> hmm, how does it work? are the frames synchronized between root hubs or does it have some separate mechanism?
2021-03-27T13:39:15 < Laurenceb> frames are synchronised
2021-03-27T13:39:20 < Laurenceb> I dont know quite how
2021-03-27T13:39:23 < jpa-> does the usb spec actually guarantee that?
2021-03-27T13:39:27 < Laurenceb> hubs must have a time sync
2021-03-27T13:39:29 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-03-27T13:39:32 < jpa-> ok
2021-03-27T13:39:44 < jpa-> well then it is pretty simple to do the same with usb bulk also
2021-03-27T13:39:47 < Laurenceb> so they know when a SOF is based on its arrival time
2021-03-27T13:40:01 < Laurenceb> not based on the data contents, because that would lead to too much lag
2021-03-27T13:40:29 < Laurenceb> obviously they will need to look at the SOF contents to find it in the first place of course
2021-03-27T13:40:51 < Laurenceb> but then they just pass it through with <~1bit delay
2021-03-27T13:41:13 < jpa-> https://www.adinstruments.com/support/knowledge-base/what-device-synchronization-error-and-how-can-i-stop-it-appearing   seems to suggest that root hubs are not always synchronized to each other
2021-03-27T13:41:58 < Laurenceb> yeah I saw that on a desktop once
2021-03-27T13:43:12 < Laurenceb> but with a multi tt hub you can stick a crazy number of stm32 devices onto a single high speed port
2021-03-27T13:43:45 < jpa-> sure
2021-03-27T13:44:30 < Laurenceb> although on babbyshake we were using a significant proportion of 480Mbps
2021-03-27T13:46:19 < Laurenceb> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/21/03/27/0154240/solar-is-cheapest-electricity-in-history-us-doe-aims-to-cut-costs-60-by-2030
2021-03-27T13:46:21 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-03-27T13:46:28 < Laurenceb> >not using stratosolar
2021-03-27T13:46:44 < Laurenceb> >muh perovskite R&D
2021-03-27T13:47:27 < Laurenceb> raw silicon cells are hitting about $0.05/W, their advanced solar stuff is irrelevant at this point
2021-03-27T13:48:14 < Laurenceb> >The very existence of this article logically implies it is not true
2021-03-27T13:48:17 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
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2021-03-27T14:14:45 < srk> qyx: "Any sufficiently complicated concurrent program in another language contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Erlang." - Virding's Law
2021-03-27T14:18:18 < qyx> pure lies
2021-03-27T14:24:02 < ventyl> sniff sniff... lisp
2021-03-27T15:22:46 < specing> Laurenceb: $0.05/W? wow ... I wonder when I'll be able to get them for less than $1/W
2021-03-27T15:23:06 < invzim_> pros.. any DDPAK/TO-263 footprint advice?
2021-03-27T15:23:41 -!- invzim_ is now known as invzim
2021-03-27T15:24:00 < invzim> Initially I thought of just peppering the tab with vias, but that is supposedly not a great idea
2021-03-27T15:25:15 < Laurenceb> specing: thats the silicon cell price wholesale
2021-03-27T15:25:37 < Laurenceb> panels are much more, close to $0.15 to $0.20
2021-03-27T15:25:52 < Laurenceb> another reason why perovskites are idiotic
2021-03-27T15:26:09 < Laurenceb> you arent paying for the silicon any more, you are paying more for the glass and aluminium
2021-03-27T15:27:36 < Laurenceb> also another reason why stratosolar makes sense, it uses bare silicon cells embedded in plastic film
2021-03-27T15:27:54 < Laurenceb> so the whole system is <$0.10/W
2021-03-27T15:28:05 < Laurenceb> but inverter cost becomes significant
2021-03-27T15:30:07 < Laurenceb> imo the silicon is pretty much a non issue at this point, but the rest of the solar power system needs to be massively optimised for it to be a practical energy source
2021-03-27T15:30:31 < specing> yep
2021-03-27T15:32:35 < Laurenceb> Edmund Kelly is onto something but I dont think hes going anywhere with it
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2021-03-27T19:02:45  * karlp forgot abotu linode maintennance
2021-03-27T19:17:57 < t4nk_freenode> have any of you heroes ever tried those cheap chinese bluetooth transmitters?
2021-03-27T19:18:20 < t4nk_freenode> they're like 8euros
2021-03-27T19:18:53 < t4nk_freenode> also claim to support aptx, or whatever that low-latency thing is called
2021-03-27T19:20:25 < t4nk_freenode> bleh, think I'm gonna order one anyhow, see how it does
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2021-03-27T19:49:02 < Steffanx> I've got a China one but it wasn't 8 eurobucks t4nk_freenode 
2021-03-27T19:50:13 < Steffanx> https://avantree.com/product-support/BTTC-318-BLK1
2021-03-27T19:50:20 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I'm talking about the very small devices... have you got such a larger one, that looks like a wireless router
2021-03-27T19:50:25 < t4nk_freenode> ah, lemme click that ;)
2021-03-27T19:51:06 < Steffanx> Unless avantree isn't china, but I recall it is
2021-03-27T19:53:36 < Steffanx> And I think that one is no longer available 
2021-03-27T19:55:20 < t4nk_freenode> no, can't find it, but a gulf of kockoffs probably
2021-03-27T19:56:11 < t4nk_freenode> going out for 3euros on ali, and 24,95 on bol... 'now reduced in price!' 
2021-03-27T19:56:12 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-03-27T19:58:21 < t4nk_freenode> ok, Steffanx, but now the bottom line... is it any good? I already got a wireless transmission system for musical instruments, but youknow.. always nice to be able to wirelessify some older hardware
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2021-03-27T20:07:45 < karlp> I've got a really tiny one, hooked up to an old record player, works just fine.
2021-03-27T20:08:52 < BrainDamage> i have a few, they work ok, but wrt latency, "low latency" in the bt world means 50 ms
2021-03-27T20:09:07 < karlp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001221471962.html
2021-03-27T20:09:13 < karlp> yeah, they're nto "instant"
2021-03-27T20:09:16 < BrainDamage> which is fine for watching a movie or speaking, but not live play
2021-03-27T20:09:26 < karlp> but, that's fine for playing records and shit.
2021-03-27T20:09:36 < karlp> yeah, you'd go mad if you tried to connect that to a guitar or something
2021-03-27T20:10:12 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, lol
2021-03-27T20:10:59 < t4nk_freenode> I got this cheap led beamer a while back.. input lag was >250ms at all times
2021-03-27T20:11:42 < t4nk_freenode> it had a fairly good picture, bright too.. but the lag just ripped my heart out, had to send it back
2021-03-27T20:12:50 < t4nk_freenode> karlp, is yours capable of connecting 2 headphones at the same time?
2021-03-27T20:13:04 < karlp> no idea, it just connects to our tv.
2021-03-27T20:14:46 < t4nk_freenode> for romantic nights with the female of the moment, all that is worn is headphones
2021-03-27T20:19:46 < t4nk_freenode> heh.. my eye fell on this ad: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001561628450.html
2021-03-27T20:20:22 < t4nk_freenode> there are trillions of these available, but this seller describes it if it were made in heaven
2021-03-27T20:22:02 < t4nk_freenode> what strikes me about this ad is the warehouses.. and especially that there's only about 1euro in price difference if you select a european warehouse
2021-03-27T20:22:37 < t4nk_freenode> so probably, hopefully, this is where it's going in the future
2021-03-27T21:28:51 < t4nk_freenode> just ordered one.
2021-03-27T21:29:13 < Steffanx> Don't die
2021-03-27T21:30:50 < t4nk_freenode> but I'm scared :|
2021-03-27T22:39:38 < Steffanx> DONT BE
2021-03-27T22:39:41 < Steffanx> take the vaccine
2021-03-27T22:56:06 < specing> take the vaccine https://i.redd.it/jcgmphctdip61.png
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2021-03-27T23:18:54 < karlp> t4nk_freenode: why... do you want headphones at all if you're naked?
2021-03-27T23:19:52 -!- catphish [~charlie@unaffiliated/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-03-27T23:23:36 < Steffanx> Don't want to hear the neighbours while naked...
2021-03-27T23:23:53 < Steffanx> And they hate his music
2021-03-27T23:24:12 < jpa-> and have to hear the instructions from their own twitch followers, not the other one's
2021-03-27T23:25:30 < t4nk_freenode> lol, that would be a cool one: feed1. 'Grab her boobs!! feed 2. 'don't let him grope you!'
2021-03-27T23:31:45 < Steffanx> naked on twitch? Is that new jpa- ?
2021-03-27T23:40:25 < karlp> twitch is older than chaturbate and onlyfan right?
2021-03-27T23:40:36 < karlp> so.. gonna go with, no, that's not new....?
2021-03-27T23:42:38 < Steffanx> Heh idk.. would have to ask google
2021-03-27T23:42:47 < zyp> more greenpack fun: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MrBP7.mp4
2021-03-27T23:43:07 < zyp> greenpak*
2021-03-27T23:44:06 < zyp> oh, and I don't think I posted the first video here: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hxl7d.mp4
2021-03-27T23:45:11 < zyp> first led shows status of fpga done pin, next three leds shows validity of the voltage rails
2021-03-27T23:46:59 < zyp> once it gets an external data stream it switches to bypass (i.e. acting as a plain buffer to 5V), and if that disappears it switches back to show basic status
2021-03-27T23:49:52 < zyp> I like how this is working out -- I can add as many indicators as I want and still run them from a single signal, and I can also show basic diagnostics before whatever is gonna control them have booted
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--- Day changed Sun Mar 28 2021
2021-03-28T00:00:02 < Laurenceb> Ms. Sumner is the chief executive officer of Quilt, an audio platform for conversations about self-care topics like wellness in the workplace, PTSD and astrology.
2021-03-28T00:01:13 < invzim> whaaat. stm32f401vct6 only available at vertical, and expensive
2021-03-28T00:01:51 < invzim> I guess the chip shortage is real
2021-03-28T00:06:43 < specing> Laurenceb: astrology lmao
2021-03-28T00:07:12  * Laurenceb is reading linkedin for the lulz
2021-03-28T00:08:11 < zyp> invzim, yeah, it's crazy
2021-03-28T00:16:23 < invzim> At least my home lab is prepared for mlcc shortage as I stocked up during that crisis :)
2021-03-28T00:16:47 < invzim> I think they blamed EV's for that too
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2021-03-28T00:24:15 < bazul> hmmm
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2021-03-28T01:38:42 < Steffanx> Hmmm
2021-03-28T01:50:56 < t4nk_freenode> I'm seriously ticked off here :|  can't communicate with my blue pills no more
2021-03-28T01:51:33 < t4nk_freenode> stlinkv2 seems to work, the f411 boards are read
2021-03-28T01:52:34 < t4nk_freenode> when using stm32cube... I'll run into Error: SRST error Info : stlink_dap_op_connect(connect) Error: Fail reading CTRL/STAT register. Force reconnect
2021-03-28T01:52:49 < t4nk_freenode> Error: Error closing APs
2021-03-28T01:53:15 < t4nk_freenode> no matter if I use software reset, or connect under reset
2021-03-28T01:53:39 < t4nk_freenode> normally I'd just switch that around and press the reset button.... and it would come back alive
2021-03-28T01:53:43 < t4nk_freenode> but not anymore
2021-03-28T01:54:51 < t4nk_freenode> when I use stlink-gui it won't report a chip, but when I keep the reset button pressed it will register the correct chip, 20k ram, but no flash
2021-03-28T01:55:11 < t4nk_freenode> just don't understand anymore
2021-03-28T01:57:42 < t4nk_freenode> heh,  I wrote some code yesterday, thinking I'd upload and test it today.. *sigh* but instead I wasted several hours already
2021-03-28T01:57:57 < t4nk_freenode> nothing unusual of course hehe
2021-03-28T02:03:36 < t4nk_freenode> one of the bluepills is still registering correctly. another one I was able to read, reprogram a blinky into, it will run the blinky but I can't connect to it nomore
2021-03-28T02:14:18 < t4nk_freenode> -----
2021-03-28T02:14:22 < t4nk_freenode> never mind.
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2021-03-28T02:46:34 < upgrdman> if a plot has a domain of 10, its actually "9" wide... is there a word for "domain minus one" ?
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2021-03-28T04:10:38 < BrainDamage> do you mean the boundaries/
2021-03-28T04:11:09 < BrainDamage> 0-9 is 10 items, but the boundary of [0,9] with [] being notation for inclusion
2021-03-28T04:23:14 < Laurenceb> muh fencepanels
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2021-03-28T10:10:02 < qyx> jvnv down, zyp down :(
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2021-03-28T16:33:44 < Laurenceb> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/openais-sam-altman-artificial-intelligence-will-generate-enough-wealth-to-pay-each-adult-2413500-a-year/ar-BB1eGOoY
2021-03-28T16:33:48 < Laurenceb> my orbital sides
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2021-03-28T17:43:12 < zyp> okay, so what's the shit if I want a microscope?
2021-03-28T17:49:02 < englishman> i really like these OMAX trinocular
2021-03-28T17:49:18 < englishman> with 0.5x barlow so you have a good working distance and can sit with good posture
2021-03-28T17:49:27  * antto gives zyp a "Dear Santa, ..." template letter
2021-03-28T17:50:27 < englishman> without the barlow it's a 6.7x - 45x, divide that by two. that magnification range is plenty for electronics
2021-03-28T17:50:53 < englishman> add a good adjustable LED ring light on that, trinocular attachment for if you want to add a camera eventually
2021-03-28T17:51:01 < englishman> total with stand should be like $1k
2021-03-28T17:51:20 < zyp> yeah, I figure I absolutely want a trinocular one, not spending money on something shittier
2021-03-28T17:51:54 < englishman> https://omaxmicroscope.com/stereo-microscopes/zoom-trinocular/7x-45x-professional-zoom-boom-stand-trinocular-stereo-microscope.html
2021-03-28T17:52:27 < englishman> add barlow, light, and change the stand if you want. i have a big boom stand, it's less stable than a stand like that but more versatile
2021-03-28T17:52:32 < zyp> I've been picking at some 1.6x1.6mm qfns today, even the alignment dot is annoying to see 
2021-03-28T17:53:26 < englishman> actually that $1k includes some awful $300 usb camera that i never use
2021-03-28T17:53:41 < englishman> https://omaxmicroscope.com/stereo-microscopes/zoom-trinocular/7x-45x-zoom-trinocular-stereo-microscope-on-articulating-arm-post-stand.html
2021-03-28T17:53:45 < englishman> i have a boom like that one
2021-03-28T17:53:55 < zyp> yeah, that looks nice
2021-03-28T17:54:19 < englishman> i made a little adapter to attach my sony SLR and use that if i want a camera attached
2021-03-28T17:54:30 < zyp> I was also thinking about that
2021-03-28T17:54:53 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXlJemfR4rA
2021-03-28T17:54:56 < englishman> example video
2021-03-28T17:55:10 < qyx> 16:52 < zyp> I've been picking at some 1.6x1.6mm qfns today, even the alignment dot is annoying to see 
2021-03-28T17:55:16 < qyx> TPS62825 spotted
2021-03-28T17:55:59 < englishman> another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEaKtezfFVI
2021-03-28T17:56:28 < zyp> qyx, no, SLG46811V
2021-03-28T17:57:10 < zyp> and also SLG46582V, but that's 2x3mm
2021-03-28T17:59:24 < Steffanx> Got this one ages back.. its fine https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32880372287.html but it was cheaper back then
2021-03-28T17:59:36 < Steffanx> and i want that arm englishman has now :P
2021-03-28T18:00:12 < englishman> 💪
2021-03-28T18:00:39 < Steffanx> yeah, aliexpress has something, but > $100 shipping. meh
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2021-03-28T18:14:56 < zyp> englishman, so you've got a kit like this? https://omaxmicroscope.com/7x-45x-9-0mp-digital-zoom-trinocular-stereo-microscope-on-articulating-arm-stand-with-144-led-light-1708.html
2021-03-28T18:16:01 < englishman> yep looks exactly the same except for maybe the camera
2021-03-28T18:16:48 < englishman> and the 0.5x addon
2021-03-28T18:20:07 < qyx> I can see a java app
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2021-03-28T19:36:26 < aandrew> zyp: oh you got a much nicer arm than me, but my microscope head is identical
2021-03-28T19:37:09 < zyp> not me, I was just looking at what I should consider getting
2021-03-28T19:38:25 < aandrew> I added a 0.7x barlow lens and I have a much better camera than that, but very rarely use it
2021-03-28T19:38:48 < aandrew> I've got a little basler HD industrial video camera on the trinocular port
2021-03-28T19:52:44 < aandrew> I find USB (2.0) cameras have too much lag for me. Haven't tried a USB 3 one though
2021-03-28T20:00:52 < jpa-> https://eleshop.eu/szm7045nt-stl2.html   i've considered these, but too expensive for me :)
2021-03-28T20:02:09 < jpa-> cheaper than that omax stuff though
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2021-03-28T20:07:24 < aandrew> jpa-: that's exactly what my amscope looks like. EUR$500 is approximately what I paid too (USD$700) over a decade ago
2021-03-28T20:07:53 < englishman> looks identical
2021-03-28T20:08:28 < aandrew> the barlow lens is well worth it, the 40x zoom with the 10x eyepiece lens was just stupidly close to be of any real use, with the 0.7x barlow I use a lot more of the zoom range
2021-03-28T20:09:20 < aandrew> I can slice and swap two 5mil traces 5mil apart without it on full zoom which is about as fine detail as I need 
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2021-03-28T23:53:57 < karlp> so what one doeas aandrews have? "amscope" is pretty broad...
2021-03-28T23:55:52 < karlp> by my records, jpa has an ADSM-201, which is "fine" english has "an omax" which is "great" ultrasauce has an amscpe sm-4tpz, no further dtails, but no complains...
--- Day changed Mon Mar 29 2021
2021-03-29T00:08:44 < Steffanx> But that "great" comes from the same person  that says "esp32 is GREAT". Do you trust his opinion, karlp? ;)
2021-03-29T00:15:14  * karlp points at the quote marks :)
2021-03-29T00:16:30 < englishman> i think they are all the same
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2021-03-29T00:16:57 < englishman> they are fine until you realize how much mantis wants for their shit. then they are great
2021-03-29T00:23:13  * karlp lols
2021-03-29T00:39:59 < bitmask> man, RO water is good but it sure is wasteful and slow
2021-03-29T00:43:00 < karlp> wasteful?
2021-03-29T00:43:22 < bitmask> it uses like 4-5 gallons of water to get 1 gallon of clean water out
2021-03-29T00:45:53 < karlp> I think you'll find that's pretty good really.
2021-03-29T00:46:06 < Steffanx> Lol karlp your sentence was "full" "with" "quote marks"
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2021-03-29T00:48:16 < karlp> working with what I got!
2021-03-29T00:50:18 < Steffanx> What is bitmask doing with this water?
2021-03-29T00:50:49 < bitmask> drinking it
2021-03-29T00:50:54 < bitmask> tap here is gross
2021-03-29T00:51:02 < bitmask> too much clorine
2021-03-29T00:51:06 < karlp> you're in socal right?
2021-03-29T00:51:14 < karlp> or was that upgrdman?
2021-03-29T00:51:37 < bitmask> not me
2021-03-29T00:51:38 < bitmask> nj
2021-03-29T00:52:16 < bitmask> ive had good tap before but where I am now definitely isnt
2021-03-29T00:53:40 < karlp> hrm started making a wire model, and hve already fucked up the plan :)
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2021-03-29T00:59:27 < Steffanx> Heh. I always forget how "lucky" dutchlanders are when it comes to that bitmask 
2021-03-29T01:00:08 < Steffanx> Not just dutchlanders, but.. compared to uslanders 
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2021-03-29T01:01:10 < bitmask> you and your mountain filtered water
2021-03-29T01:02:47 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-03-29T01:03:03 < Steffanx> Dutchland is flat as a pancake
2021-03-29T01:03:24 < bitmask> oh really? interesting
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2021-03-29T01:07:41 < Steffanx> We clean/filter our water naturally and then some more processing. Apparently our water pipes etc. are so amazingly good/clean we don't need chlorine. (OK mostly because in some places it's still used a tiny tiny bit) 
2021-03-29T01:08:13 < effractur> well its not really clean
2021-03-29T01:08:23 < effractur> but the system is optimized to limit standing water
2021-03-29T01:08:35 < effractur> so you need to flush the pipes if yo uleaf the house for a week etc
2021-03-29T01:18:55 < bitmask> i may try bypassing the RO stage to see how the water is
2021-03-29T01:19:04 < bitmask> its 4 stage
2021-03-29T01:19:34 < bitmask> sediment and two carbon might be enough
2021-03-29T01:19:43 < effractur> UV light
2021-03-29T01:19:45 < effractur> you also want
2021-03-29T01:19:55 < bitmask> not for tap water
2021-03-29T01:23:11 < Laurenceb> can lunix route tcp/ip over modbus?
2021-03-29T01:23:33 < effractur> Laurenceb: why not
2021-03-29T01:23:49 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-03-29T01:23:53 < Laurenceb> I was wondering how
2021-03-29T01:24:00 < Laurenceb> I guess PPP to a dummy device
2021-03-29T01:24:07 < Laurenceb> then a modbus driver talks to that
2021-03-29T01:24:19 < effractur> yea
2021-03-29T01:24:29 < effractur> or just a userland tun/tap thing
2021-03-29T01:24:31 < Laurenceb> to encapsulate the data in modbus frames
2021-03-29T01:24:34 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-03-29T01:24:35 < effractur> that warps everything in modbus frames
2021-03-29T01:24:36 < karlp> Laurenceb: you might prefer ipv6 over bacnet, instead
2021-03-29T01:24:39 < karlp> that's at least documented.
2021-03-29T01:24:41 < karlp> ms/tp.
2021-03-29T01:24:42 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-03-29T01:24:56 < karlp> I've not seen anyone do tcp over modbus, but you could easily hack it up as you suggest.
2021-03-29T01:25:20 < karlp> bacnet is physically identical anyway, jus t more american...
2021-03-29T01:25:34  * Laurenceb was thinking about this data acquisition thingy
2021-03-29T01:25:36 < karlp> why would you want modbus at that stage?
2021-03-29T01:25:46 < karlp> just to be transparent to other devices on the bus?
2021-03-29T01:25:49 < Laurenceb> I was thinging a string of raspberry pis with rs485 between
2021-03-29T01:25:59 < karlp> there's a whole funciton code for "encapsulated transport"....
2021-03-29T01:26:00 < Laurenceb> then the modbus devices hang off the rs845
2021-03-29T01:26:00 < effractur> you can just run IP over serial
2021-03-29T01:26:15 < karlp> but i you control the bus, just doing one of the existing serial ones is arguably better?
2021-03-29T01:26:17 < Laurenceb> and the rpis talk to each other using tcp/ip over the same cable
2021-03-29T01:26:26 < karlp> and bacnet ms/tp is already documented.
2021-03-29T01:26:40 < Laurenceb> karlp: my idea was to use single set of cable for everything
2021-03-29T01:26:44 < karlp> why not ethernet if you're building your own thing?
2021-03-29T01:26:51 < Laurenceb> so it does modbus and the "ethernet" 
2021-03-29T01:27:12 < effractur> no
2021-03-29T01:27:14 < effractur> ip on modbus
2021-03-29T01:27:21 < effractur> no ethernet ontop of modbus
2021-03-29T01:27:24 < effractur> that would be stupid
2021-03-29T01:27:28 < Laurenceb> yeah thats what I meant
2021-03-29T01:27:41 < karlp> no, I mean just fuck off with the serial links, just use ether for it.
2021-03-29T01:27:42 < effractur> except if you need ethernet features
2021-03-29T01:27:42 < Laurenceb> ethernet replacement, just a tcp/ip link between the pis
2021-03-29T01:27:59 < Laurenceb> karlp: then there would need to be ethernet in parallel with the rs485
2021-03-29T01:28:00 < karlp> ahh. we're in teh wheel building business. got it.
2021-03-29T01:28:03 < Laurenceb> more cables and connectors
2021-03-29T01:28:07 < karlp> why would you need the rs485 at all?
2021-03-29T01:28:24 < Laurenceb> because modbus devices that do everything are available off the shelf
2021-03-29T01:28:28 < Laurenceb> and talk rs485
2021-03-29T01:28:31 < effractur> so why just not talk
2021-03-29T01:28:36 < effractur> modbus between the pis
2021-03-29T01:28:44 < karlp> so you _do_ want to have transparency to other devices on the bus.
2021-03-29T01:29:18 < Laurenceb> the problem is there is a lot more than 254 devices
2021-03-29T01:29:32 < effractur> but there is modbus-tcp
2021-03-29T01:29:36 < Laurenceb> one option would be micro controller smart switches
2021-03-29T01:29:44 < Laurenceb> probably simple and more reliable...
2021-03-29T01:29:59 < Laurenceb> so have two bytes of address
2021-03-29T01:30:21 < Laurenceb> micro strips off the upper level of address... maybe
2021-03-29T01:30:36 < Laurenceb> I'd have to try this with paper diagram lol
2021-03-29T01:30:37 < effractur> yo ucan also just
2021-03-29T01:30:42 < effractur> like run the pis on thernet
2021-03-29T01:30:52 < effractur> and trow a ethernet to modbus thing on there
2021-03-29T01:31:04 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah
2021-03-29T01:31:10 < effractur> that is supported
2021-03-29T01:31:17 < Laurenceb> but I still need modbus from the pis to the sensors
2021-03-29T01:31:22 < effractur> yea
2021-03-29T01:31:25 < Laurenceb> which is slightly more cabling
2021-03-29T01:31:33 < Laurenceb> as everything is approx in a long line
2021-03-29T01:31:33 < effractur> but you can encapsulate modbus in tcp/ip
2021-03-29T01:31:39 < effractur> ah that sucks
2021-03-29T01:31:42 < karlp> effractur: if modbus-tcp is relevant, they don't need to have this conversation.
2021-03-29T01:31:56 < karlp> unless lolrence is even more dumb....
2021-03-29T01:32:07 < Laurenceb> I suspect micros are actually the way to go
2021-03-29T01:32:09 < effractur> modbus tcp is the other way around
2021-03-29T01:32:12 < effractur> my mistake
2021-03-29T01:32:22 < Laurenceb> with the original way, a single failing rpi can bring down the network
2021-03-29T01:32:28 < karlp> wat?
2021-03-29T01:32:31 < effractur> so Laurenceb why not run like
2021-03-29T01:32:31 < Laurenceb> but then again... a single failing micro could
2021-03-29T01:32:33 < effractur> ethernet
2021-03-29T01:32:35 < effractur> evertwhere
2021-03-29T01:32:35 < karlp> what sort of insane shit are you working again?!
2021-03-29T01:32:45 < effractur> and trow modbustcp stuff where yo uneed modbus
2021-03-29T01:32:50 < karlp> they don't need modbus,
2021-03-29T01:33:00 < karlp> they hve existing modbus rtu devices with serial cables he must work with
2021-03-29T01:33:01 < Laurenceb> rpi --- rs485 with modbus sensors - rpi -- rs485 link with modbus etc
2021-03-29T01:33:16 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: yes, why not microcontrollers talking tcp/ip and rs485 to talk to those sensors where you really need it?
2021-03-29T01:33:23 < karlp> lolrence, this is normally done with just "rs485 sensors, ethernet backhaul"
2021-03-29T01:33:30 < Laurenceb> karlp: sure
2021-03-29T01:33:40 < Laurenceb> but I wanted to do it without dedicated backhaul
2021-03-29T01:33:42 < Laurenceb> bbl
2021-03-29T01:33:46 < karlp> rs485 and sharing controllers and sensors on the same links sounds fucking dumb
2021-03-29T01:33:56 < karlp> how the fuck are you going to do multi master anyway?
2021-03-29T01:34:02 < karlp> are teh rpis just "another sensor"?
2021-03-29T01:34:27 < karlp> anyway, built this woman a bike. time for something else.
2021-03-29T01:35:41 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/6L893GoL86f8Sst
2021-03-29T01:38:38 < Laurenceb> hmm I think I got it
2021-03-29T01:38:47 < Laurenceb>  "double modbus"
2021-03-29T01:38:57 < Laurenceb> modbus packets inside modbus packets
2021-03-29T01:39:13 < karlp> I litereally told you about the encapsulated function code...
2021-03-29T01:39:31 < Laurenceb> so there is a single rpi at one end, then the bus is divided by micro controlled switches
2021-03-29T01:39:51 < Laurenceb> the outer packet selects a region of the bus
2021-03-29T01:40:08 < Laurenceb> then the micro disconnects that region and repeats the inner packet
2021-03-29T01:40:27 < Laurenceb> simples
2021-03-29T01:41:41 < Steffanx> effractur: it's also relatively clean.. as in a pretty closed system, not so many leaks. 
2021-03-29T01:45:03 < Steffanx> Lol karlp where is the saddle
2021-03-29T01:46:14 < karlp> doh. toolate now...
2021-03-29T01:46:20 < karlp> rear forks are pretty shit too.
2021-03-29T01:46:32 < karlp> knew I had one more piece left :)
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2021-03-29T02:09:18 < Laurenceb> yo dawg I hurd u liek modbus
2021-03-29T02:10:25 < Laurenceb> hmm 
2021-03-29T02:10:35 < Laurenceb> you could have modbus inside modbus inside modbus
2021-03-29T02:10:50 < Laurenceb> 4 layers deep and its basically ipv4
2021-03-29T02:21:04 < Laurenceb> https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=18562164&cid=61209806
2021-03-29T02:45:22 < Laurenceb> kek ESR has lost it
2021-03-29T02:45:26 < Laurenceb> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8752
2021-03-29T02:45:44 < Laurenceb> > They are determined, murderous totalitarians who will shoot you for wearing a MAGA hat. And it is time to end them.
2021-03-29T02:56:37 < Laurenceb> at least some of the commenters are still sane
2021-03-29T02:56:53 < Laurenceb> ywlts esr go rambo on antifa
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2021-03-29T06:06:18 < Ultrasauce> yeah i am happy with my sm-4tpz, still need to get a camera though
2021-03-29T06:07:06 < Ultrasauce> in my experience it has proven perfectly suitable for both smt rework and getting lost in the surface of roughly sawn wood while on drugs
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2021-03-29T10:42:57 < karlp> that's quite a reccomendation :)
2021-03-29T10:47:42 < Steffanx> First I was: Ultrasauce on drugs?!?!?! Then I realised he's Canadian 
2021-03-29T10:54:04 < zyp> hmm, I think I'd want something like this, just without that camera https://www.amscope.com/3-5x-90x-simul-focal-articulating-zoom-stereo-microscope-with-3mp-digital-camera.html
2021-03-29T10:56:24 < Steffanx> Mine has a camera I never used. I dont really see the point.
2021-03-29T10:59:27 < zyp> I mean, I want a camera, just not a shitty one
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2021-03-29T11:06:45 < qyx> https://istheshipstillstuck.com/
2021-03-29T11:12:53 < drzacek> hello there
2021-03-29T11:14:12 < drzacek> maybe a dumb question (but I was told there are no dumb questions), but if I'd want to make a stm32 project, as in, own PCB with stm32 chip on it, what do I need to put there to make it work?
2021-03-29T11:14:54 < drzacek> I know there are some capacitors involved, external crystals etc, but don't know where to find that info what exactly is needed
2021-03-29T11:15:27 < effractur> drzacek: i should be all in the datasheet of the relevent chip
2021-03-29T11:16:20 < effractur> but what you need depends a lot on what you are going to use it for 
2021-03-29T11:18:33 < karlp> isn't the answer today, "maybe" ?
2021-03-29T11:19:09 < karlp> right. that's what it sort of says now.
2021-03-29T11:19:20 < effractur> drzacek: so eatch st32's chip datasheet has a Power supply scheme that shows the miminim capacitors requireed
2021-03-29T11:19:25 < effractur> karlp: na its still tsuck 
2021-03-29T11:19:32 < effractur> according to the salvage company
2021-03-29T11:19:41 < karlp> better is a document called, "getting started with stm32xxx hardware development" drzacek 
2021-03-29T11:19:57 < effractur> karlp: does that exist?
2021-03-29T11:20:01 < karlp> effractur: of course.
2021-03-29T11:20:04 < karlp> its an app note from st.
2021-03-29T11:20:08 < effractur> ah nice
2021-03-29T11:20:15 < effractur> awsome
2021-03-29T11:20:21 < karlp> bare minimum is a power supply and a sprinkling of caps.
2021-03-29T11:20:32 < karlp> no crystals required, no resistors required.
2021-03-29T11:20:41 < zyp> yeah, you don't really need anything more than normal decoupling to start with
2021-03-29T11:21:06 < karlp> caps somewhat optional if you just wnat to blink, become increasingly less optionlal the more you want to do, and te more stable you want tings to be....
2021-03-29T11:21:47 < drzacek> effractur, to the manual then!
2021-03-29T11:21:50 < karlp> I think I saw a board with like, _just_ a 100uF electro or something silly.
2021-03-29T11:22:11 < zyp> for most parts, a 100nF next to each supply pin is enough, and then you have the high performance parts that has a couple of dedicated vcap pins to decouple the internal regulator
2021-03-29T11:22:32 < effractur> and some caps vor the VDDA etc
2021-03-29T11:22:34 < effractur> if you are using that
2021-03-29T11:22:35 < drzacek> karlp, yeah, lets differentiate the "absolute working* minimum" and "reasonable build", I want the second one. 
2021-03-29T11:22:46 < karlp> so, read the app note...
2021-03-29T11:22:47 < zyp> effractur, they are included in «supply pins»
2021-03-29T11:22:49 < effractur> but check the getting stared tock that karlp proposed
2021-03-29T11:23:10 < zyp> drzacek, what I'm quoting is the second one
2021-03-29T11:23:14 < karlp> (it still comes down to "decoupling cap for every power supply pin")
2021-03-29T11:23:43 < drzacek> karlp, I will
2021-03-29T11:23:44 < zyp> I've made several boards that only has four 100nF caps as all the directly related external parts
2021-03-29T11:23:52 < drzacek> what about the boot things?
2021-03-29T11:24:04 < zyp> I tend to just ground boot0
2021-03-29T11:24:11 < zyp> but that's up to what you need
2021-03-29T11:24:12 < drzacek> they have those boot0/1 pins that need to be pulled high/low depending if normal run or flashing
2021-03-29T11:24:23 < karlp> they have pulls internally
2021-03-29T11:24:31 < zyp> no, they don't
2021-03-29T11:24:35 < karlp> they don't?
2021-03-29T11:24:37 < karlp> oh, my bad.
2021-03-29T11:24:43 < karlp> sould read the doc instead of listening to me :)
2021-03-29T11:24:45 < zyp> last I checked, boot0 is floating
2021-03-29T11:24:52 < drzacek> I'd rather skip button, cause it takes place, but still want to have some way of getting into flashing bootloader
2021-03-29T11:24:58 < karlp> it's sitll "user setting" not "required hardware for bringup" :)
2021-03-29T11:25:08 < drzacek> is there some fancy trick for that?
2021-03-29T11:25:17 < effractur> drzacek: headers + jumpers
2021-03-29T11:25:47 < zyp> drzacek, pulldown and a boot0 testpoint next to a vdd testpoint
2021-03-29T11:25:51 < drzacek> would it be possible to skill the header
2021-03-29T11:26:04 < zyp> then just short those with a tweezer or something to pretend you've got a button
2021-03-29T11:26:19 < drzacek> as in, leave the pads/through holes unsoldered so it is in the "normal operation" mode, but can be brought into bootloader if I put something there
2021-03-29T11:26:28 < zyp> yes
2021-03-29T11:26:31 < drzacek> great
2021-03-29T11:26:33 < zyp> as long as you've got a pulldown
2021-03-29T11:26:49 < drzacek> with high value resistor, probly?
2021-03-29T11:39:27 < jpa-> if you have other buttons on board, you can reuse them also - BOOT0 is read only at boot time
2021-03-29T12:24:50 < Steffanx> Lol effractur need a better keyboard or more sleep?
2021-03-29T12:24:53 < Steffanx> Or both
2021-03-29T12:25:13 < effractur> Steffanx: both
2021-03-29T12:25:17 < effractur> mostly sleep tho
2021-03-29T12:25:29 < effractur> last nights was a bit short
2021-03-29T12:25:31 < Steffanx> Me too. I feel jetlagged
2021-03-29T12:25:58 < effractur> <4 hours a night
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2021-03-29T12:28:33 < Steffanx> Lol don't do that effractur 
2021-03-29T12:28:51 < effractur> its not intensional :
2021-03-29T12:28:53 < effractur> :(*
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2021-03-29T12:42:45 < drzacek> jpa-, I'd rather skip buttons at all
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2021-03-29T14:55:29 < karlp> you don't need them
2021-03-29T14:55:55 < karlp> just plan how you intend to do production flashing, and/or (field/factory) upgrades, if those are concerns.
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2021-03-29T16:54:47 < ventyl> this fucking datasheet is simply a piece of crap
2021-03-29T16:54:51 < ventyl> not a single address is valid
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2021-03-29T16:56:29 < Steffanx> What datasheet is this fucking datasheet mr ventyl 
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2021-03-29T17:00:51 < jpa-> ventyl: did you try address two from the fucking datasheet? perhaps that's where the piece of crap came from
2021-03-29T17:07:07 < ventyl> STM32G4 reference manual
2021-03-29T17:07:21 < ventyl> i already know that most addressing stuff related to FDCAN is fucked up
2021-03-29T17:15:04 < Steffanx> Did you try turning it off and on, ventyl ?
2021-03-29T17:15:53 < ventyl> nope, i rather calculated addresses myself
2021-03-29T17:16:02 < ventyl> all are wrong, time of them twice
2021-03-29T17:16:04 < ventyl> well done STM
2021-03-29T17:16:18 < ventyl> s/time/some/
2021-03-29T17:17:43 < qyx> did they manage to do read-modify-write while copying from bosch?
2021-03-29T17:18:40 < ventyl> that's possible as FDCAN on H7 is almost completely different peripheral as FDCAN on G4
2021-03-29T17:52:11 < qyx> oh STM32WL is available on mouser
2021-03-29T17:52:20 < qyx> time to order a nucleo
2021-03-29T17:56:41 < Laurenceb> butt matrix: a cybernetic grid designed to facilitate global if not universal access to unlimited amounts of pictures of butts. through the current paradigm all forms of material and built forms will be utilized to expand and perpetuate the butt matrix until the entire milky way galaxy and beyond is harnessed into a infrastructure grid that endlessly percolates the pre-human ape mentality of the female homo-sapiens. the butt matrix is the
2021-03-29T17:56:41 < Laurenceb>  swollen ass of an ape in heat but in the context of digital civilization, its man's outer ape reflecting in the screen.
2021-03-29T18:02:30 < qyx> ok, no nucleos, 17 weeks lead time
2021-03-29T18:10:12 < Laurenceb> keeeekkk
2021-03-29T18:10:18 < Laurenceb> >excavator conspiracy
2021-03-29T18:10:44 < Laurenceb> >there are only 50 excavators in the world, they are moved around so you dont notice
2021-03-29T18:10:58 < Laurenceb> >this is why it took so long to unblock the Suez canal
2021-03-29T18:11:20 < BrainDamage> that'd be awesome,, it'd mean some impressive logistics
2021-03-29T18:13:10 < Laurenceb> 4channers are trying to dream up the next qanon
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2021-03-29T18:18:12 < karlp> makes as much sense as flat earth anon.
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2021-03-29T19:03:19 < Laurenceb> >flat earth
2021-03-29T19:03:45 < Laurenceb> >not concave earth within a hollow of infinite rock
2021-03-29T19:04:26 < Laurenceb> we had a notice board in the physics dept for wack job letters
2021-03-29T19:04:58 < Laurenceb> someone said their was an infinite series of concave shell worlds, with dinosaurs and stuff on other shells
2021-03-29T19:05:24 < Laurenceb> their was a demon shell and aquaword shell and stuff
2021-03-29T19:06:23 < Laurenceb> *there
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2021-03-29T19:31:43 < invzim> any noticable differences beteen "C" and "D" chips, I can't source stm32f401vct, but stm32f402vdt is somewhat available (and cheaper).  I thought it was just flash/ram sizing, but they have different datasheets
2021-03-29T19:32:07 < invzim> stm32f01vdt..
2021-03-29T19:32:13 < invzim> 401vdt
2021-03-29T19:35:26 < jpa-> invzim: VDT has more ram & flash, as far as i can see
2021-03-29T19:36:10 < jpa-> (no other differences)
2021-03-29T19:38:13 < effractur> vc does have an higher Tmax 
2021-03-29T19:38:47 < effractur> and a bit lower power usage 
2021-03-29T19:40:28 < jpa-> there exists STM32F401VCT3 with higher Tmax, while there is only STM32F401VDT6 with equal range as VCT6
2021-03-29T19:40:49 < jpa-> supply current goes hand-in-hand with amount of RAM usually
2021-03-29T19:41:36 < effractur> yu, mm the series comparison thingy says its 105 for all VC and 85 for all VD
2021-03-29T19:41:40 < effractur> tmax that is
2021-03-29T19:43:20 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STM32F401VCT6/4494301?s=N4IgTCBcDaIM4BcC2BmMAzALABgIwDcBjBANhAF0BfIA  well, VCT6 certainly exists
2021-03-29T19:45:38 < Steffanx> Do you exist jpa- ?
2021-03-29T19:46:28 < effractur> i guess the product comparison of st is then just broken
2021-03-29T19:46:50 < jpa-> effractur: or it just shows the maximum available, instead of the particular parts
2021-03-29T19:47:09 < jpa-> Steffanx: yeah, with Ta(max) of 120°C but Tj(max) of only 42°C
2021-03-29T19:51:16 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-03-29T20:08:05 < hlk0> Hi all. Not sure if this is the best place for the question but here goes: For u-blox devices what is the difference between UBX-CFG-TP and UBX-CFG-TP5?
2021-03-29T20:08:44 < invzim> strange that they would go to the trouble of making a different datasheet for it
2021-03-29T20:09:08 < invzim> OTP banks and ROP protection stuff should be the same, generally speaking?
2021-03-29T20:10:27 < jpa-> invzim: it's probably separate because VDT was introduced a year later than VCT
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2021-03-29T20:13:23 < jpa-> hlk0: UBX-CFG-TP5 appears to have more parameters, maybe it is a newer version of the command
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2021-03-29T20:15:41 < hlk0> @jpa yes it makes some sense I guess. Even though there are some parameters that don't coincide.
2021-03-29T20:17:42 < jpa-> every parameter in UBX-CFG-TP appears to be present in UBX-CFG-TP5 in some form
2021-03-29T20:23:07 < hlk0> yes it seems so. It's a bit weird that u-blox doesn't have this better documented (or I'm not finding it :p). thank you!
2021-03-29T20:27:34 < qyx> hlk0 jpa- not all time-cfg parameter are available, it depends if the receiver belongs to the "timing" series
2021-03-29T20:28:40 < hlk0> qyx but are they different messages or one is a "newer" version of the other?
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2021-03-29T20:30:02 < qyx> if they are documented differently (different class and id), they are different
2021-03-29T20:33:31 < hlk0> I'm experimenting w/ u-center and there seems to be some relation between them. If I change the pulse length in one, it affect the other one. So I guess they are different messages but one offers other features
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2021-03-29T20:46:29 < qyx> yeah you can set/get the same parameter using many different messages
2021-03-29T20:50:18 < Laurenceb> #Arduino World Gathering 2021: the official community conference you can’t miss https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/03/27/arduino-world-gathering-2021/
2021-03-29T20:50:22 < Laurenceb> what are you waiting for
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2021-03-29T20:56:12 < skz81> <Laurenceb> >there are only 50 excavators in the world, they are moved around so you dont notice >> Looooool
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2021-03-29T20:57:32 < ventyl> all they still do is Atmel
2021-03-29T20:57:52 < ventyl> kids, please don't do drugs. and arduino
2021-03-29T20:58:18 < skz81> With an ex-GF we had a kind of soft-raving, she mostly, where the highways and other far city/industrial noise were the sounds of a "machine" (and she feared specially excavator, for a reason i guess) approching....
2021-03-29T20:58:23 < Steffanx> Still Atmel. thats weird ventyl 
2021-03-29T20:59:45 < skz81> It was Lancel0t-the-Excavat0r i guess because every night we heard it, it was approaching from the same point in the far....
2021-03-29T21:00:16 < Laurenceb> RMS is a notorious misogynist who is deemed to hate all women, including his own mum ! He is certainly guilty of numerous gender crimes. Unless Richard finally agrees to a sex change, he is to be repudiated, cancelled, shunned, and reprobated !
2021-03-29T21:00:55  * skz81 hands some Xanax to Laurenceb
2021-03-29T21:01:15 < skz81> Yes I tend to be shocked too, be, pls
2021-03-29T21:01:21 < skz81> but*
2021-03-29T21:01:22 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna send you to free software camp
2021-03-29T21:01:24 < skz81> ;)
2021-03-29T21:01:33 < skz81> np
2021-03-29T21:02:04 < ventyl> Steffanx: I like AVR for it's extremely low barrier entry, but building commercial platform on top of it... meh
2021-03-29T21:02:17 < Laurenceb> atmega168p has its uses
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2021-03-29T21:02:35 < Laurenceb> anything larger than that is idiotic, crippled core can only do so much
2021-03-29T21:02:36 < ventyl> Laurenceb: so did they finally decide if they will ostrakize him? or is corporate still pushing for them to change their minde?
2021-03-29T21:02:49 < Laurenceb> corporate seems to be raging
2021-03-29T21:03:23 < Laurenceb> holy shit youtubers are near my house
2021-03-29T21:03:31 < skz81> ventyl, >> Die Minden* ;°)
2021-03-29T21:03:35 < Laurenceb> looollll they are trolling the "rangers"
2021-03-29T21:03:50 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7RXhFOgXpY
2021-03-29T21:03:55 < ventyl> skz81: huh?
2021-03-29T21:03:59 < Laurenceb> not saying when my house appears
2021-03-29T21:04:14 < skz81> "minde" reads german, just kidding :)
2021-03-29T21:04:26 < skz81> "their minde"
2021-03-29T21:04:38 < Laurenceb> >Pencil necked, pencil armed fake tactical pant jockey
2021-03-29T21:04:41 < Laurenceb> keeek the comments
2021-03-29T21:04:47 < ventyl> ich kann ein bisschen deutsch (+-)
2021-03-29T21:05:03 < t4nk_freenode> yeah hehe... it's like I'm reading that copper from Alo Alo... who can's speak english
2021-03-29T21:05:04 < skz81> ich kann auch
2021-03-29T21:06:52 < ventyl> well, fuck
2021-03-29T21:06:59 < skz81> Lol, do you know there is a french town named "Auch" ? Many german in holidays in France near Toulouse, trying to reach the latter, were at a crossroad indication one way "Toulouse", the other "Auch"
2021-03-29T21:07:32 < skz81> indicating*
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2021-03-29T22:17:35 < mawk> lol
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2021-03-29T23:02:40 < Steffanx> bitmask: I took a picture for you during my lunch break walk to show you how flat dutchland is http://imgur.com/a/PRWUcpi
2021-03-29T23:03:13 < bitmask> haha damn
2021-03-29T23:03:41 < BrainDamage> dam*
2021-03-29T23:04:08 < Steffanx> Did you spot the windmill? D:
2021-03-29T23:05:27 < bitmask> most of New jersey is pretty flat (except for the north)  When I went out to california I was surprised, its very nice driving on highways with hills and stuff around.
2021-03-29T23:08:30 < Steffanx> When i google for pictures all it shows is large buildings :P
2021-03-29T23:08:53 < BrainDamage> if you apply the right topological transformation, here's pretty flat too https://i.imgur.com/k5Em0Gg.jpg
2021-03-29T23:09:15 < Steffanx> Nice BrainDamage 
2021-03-29T23:10:48 < bitmask> new jersey is very diverse, from farm towns down south, suburbs and beach towns in central where I am, mountains up north, and cities sprinkled around
2021-03-29T23:10:59 < qyx> same here https://www.google.com/maps/@48.895345,19.2247194,3a,75y,9.99h,90.38t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipO3jVgO2UVw-8SHiXn2KDPXklaENAQTxQIh3wsM!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO3jVgO2UVw-8SHiXn2KDPXklaENAQTxQIh3wsM%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-20-ya14.000005-ro-0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096
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2021-03-29T23:24:50 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-03-30T00:34:49 < ventyl> Steffanx: does term `right topological transformation` include nuclear warheads?
2021-03-30T00:35:32 < Steffanx> Idk it was mr bd who said it
2021-03-30T00:36:54 < ventyl> ah, right
2021-03-30T00:37:17 < ventyl> https://imgur.com/a/TxSdHC9 also kinda flat
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2021-03-30T01:15:52 < Steffanx> I see hills ventyl 
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2021-03-30T07:54:21 < machinehum> Shocker
2021-03-30T08:17:11 < jpa-> Steffanx: why has the farmer left that small strip of old grass there?
2021-03-30T08:17:30 < jpa-> or is there a ditch hiding there?
2021-03-30T08:23:56 < qyx> *is there a dutch
2021-03-30T08:41:22 < Steffanx> Ditch indeed
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2021-03-30T11:55:39 < qyx> meh v-tac chinaled
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2021-03-30T11:56:13 < qyx> it looks like they spray the paint on dirty material
2021-03-30T11:56:32 < qyx> a ton of dust inside too
2021-03-30T11:56:40 < qyx> hair and stuff
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2021-03-30T12:01:22 < qyx> so I have exactly 3 mm of space if I wanted to put the driver inside
2021-03-30T12:01:58 < qyx> probably doable on a 0.6 mm PCB including the inductor
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2021-03-30T13:42:26 < bitmask> today is gonna be a good day
2021-03-30T13:43:20 < jpa-> sounds good
2021-03-30T13:43:29 < jpa-> will it be good for me, or just for you?
2021-03-30T13:43:42 < bitmask> for everyone
2021-03-30T13:43:50 < bitmask> or just me
2021-03-30T13:43:54 < bitmask> who knows
2021-03-30T13:45:11 < bitmask> I think I should start by going through the 500 or so browser tabs I have open
2021-03-30T14:12:36 < ventyl> start performing browser tab bankrupcy
2021-03-30T14:12:54 < ventyl> every, let's say saturday, simply close all browser windows
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2021-03-30T14:18:36 < Streaker> FIFO queue for your browser. every time you open a new tab, the oldest one closes.
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2021-03-30T14:22:19 < bitmask> I do use session buddy to save my tabs but a lot of the time i never go back to em so i try to go through them first to see what I can do 
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2021-03-30T14:25:10 < bitmask> hmm, is a 600mm straight edge and combo square a good size? I think so
2021-03-30T14:25:35 < bitmask> maybe 900mm straight edge and 600 combo square... hmmm
2021-03-30T14:28:41 < Steffanx> Here a better pic for you jpa- http://imgur.com/a/Fdsz7kV
2021-03-30T14:29:49 < Steffanx> In a special neck breaking orientation 
2021-03-30T14:34:53 < Steffanx> All depends on the task bitmask. Spending Biden money?
2021-03-30T14:35:03 < bitmask> always
2021-03-30T14:35:28 < bitmask> I gotta figure out what i wanna do with this water filter and my limited space
2021-03-30T14:36:23 < bitmask> do I just bring it downstairs and fill a gallon jug at a time or do I set up some system in my room that requires 1 or 2 5 gallon buckets since theres so much waste water
2021-03-30T14:36:50 < bitmask> maybe I have room under the bed for some water storage bins
2021-03-30T14:37:06 < jpa-> Steffanx: where is the dutch? is he underwater?
2021-03-30T14:37:15 < jpa-> also, where is all the snow?
2021-03-30T14:38:30 < BrainDamage> ghost ship sailing in the ditch
2021-03-30T14:40:16 < qyx> Steffanx can practice ever giving on a canoe
2021-03-30T14:40:19 < karlp> man, my first time really looking at a cubemx project, and fuck me, thelayers....
2021-03-30T14:40:55 < Steffanx> Flying ditchman, jpa- ...
2021-03-30T14:42:43 < qyx> how deep are those ditches?
2021-03-30T14:45:05 < qyx> can a ditch pro explain me how does this thing work? https://www.thefencepost.com/news/will-irrigation-ditches-be-covered-under-the-clean-water-act/
2021-03-30T14:46:43 < skz81> I guess it works by gravity once primed...
2021-03-30T14:46:57 < skz81> air pressure* actually :p
2021-03-30T14:47:06 < qyx> yeah I am interested in the priming part
2021-03-30T14:47:08 < karlp> they're just siphons right?
2021-03-30T14:47:35 < qyx> imagine a field 1 km long
2021-03-30T14:47:36 < karlp> therew as a neat video on imgur the other weak of them with a u-shape hook at the end, and the dude just kinda rams it in and twists enough, and it gets enough water in that it self primes
2021-03-30T14:47:45 < karlp> dude, that's manual labour for sure.
2021-03-30T14:48:11 < qyx> a priming director is the name of the dude then
2021-03-30T14:48:42 < karlp> I'm sure you can buy an attachment that helps you do it, frrom yoru local farming uspplies store in the land of the free or something.
2021-03-30T14:49:34 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMVFCeoysXc
2021-03-30T14:49:42 < qyx> a dude-girl
2021-03-30T14:52:31 < karlp> nicec description ST: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/iNxEY.png
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2021-03-30T14:57:58 < karlp> I'd forgotten just how fcuking weird eclipse is.
2021-03-30T15:08:15 < BrainDamage> pretty sure you can just attach a regular pump to get it primed
2021-03-30T15:09:05 < BrainDamage> remember you have to do that shit again if the channel runs dry
2021-03-30T15:11:00 < karlp> yeah, she makes it look fucking easy
2021-03-30T15:11:14 < karlp> the one I saw was a totally different design, with a small raised wooden channel
2021-03-30T15:11:44 < karlp> here: https://imgur.com/BXXDa0A
2021-03-30T15:12:37 < qyx> not bad
2021-03-30T15:13:43 < BrainDamage> with the straight tube version, you can probably just let them sink, then hold your palm on one sidde
2021-03-30T15:14:02 < BrainDamage> way less effort than going back and forth
2021-03-30T15:14:34 < karlp> I'd kinda imagine she's tried a few ways :)
2021-03-30T15:15:07 < karlp> I imagine it's less bending over if you prime it further like she does rather than dropping it early, and potentially not having it start properly and having to pick it up again
2021-03-30T15:15:29 < karlp> only piece workers bend over....
2021-03-30T15:16:02 < BrainDamage> true, it'd be a heavy weight too to lift
2021-03-30T15:17:47 < BrainDamage> also, remember that given the elevated position and the short distance, the pipes couldd be replace easily with notches in the trench
2021-03-30T15:18:20 < karlp> not as easy to turn off I imagine.
2021-03-30T15:18:22 < BrainDamage> at least for thee wood one
2021-03-30T15:18:38 < karlp> less concerns with leaky tap joins?
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2021-03-30T15:19:30 < BrainDamage> the notches would have less chance to clog
2021-03-30T15:19:42 < BrainDamage> win some, lose some
2021-03-30T15:20:03 < BrainDamage> also, no need to prime if it runs dry, you can gate the whole thing
2021-03-30T15:20:03 -!- yukam [~yukam@2a00:1370:8125:c7d0:6218:9814:8ed6:172d] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2021-03-30T15:20:13 < BrainDamage> but you lose the ability to control per portion
2021-03-30T15:20:29 < BrainDamage> unless say, you add some plastic sheet in front of the notches
2021-03-30T15:20:45 < karlp> fuck it, just send the dude around :)
2021-03-30T15:22:56 < karlp> .au family just uses center pivots and line crawlers.
2021-03-30T15:23:28 < karlp> I was kidna surprised to see tht woman talking about shifts of workers, qld isn't exactly a low wage farming environment.
2021-03-30T15:23:51 < karlp> but cotton's a funny business....
2021-03-30T15:23:57 < karlp> whos paying what costs? who knows!
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2021-03-30T15:58:59 < Steffanx> Retweeeting for the space fans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjCSJIAKEPM
2021-03-30T16:11:16 < ventyl> huh, the weather there
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2021-03-30T16:40:50 < drzacek> hello there
2021-03-30T16:41:14 < mawk> https://youtu.be/nv0N4JS_VbA listen to this Steffanx it's very short
2021-03-30T16:42:01 < drzacek> I have downloaded the mcu selector and trying to find the right chip for me. After entering the parameters in filter fields I end up with relative small number of possible products. Is there some quick n easy way to compare them further, maybe the compare power consumption between them?
2021-03-30T16:43:54 < mawk> take the cheapest one that fits
2021-03-30T16:44:31 < jpa-> and nowadays, check if you can actually buy it
2021-03-30T16:45:43 < drzacek> I kinda assumed that if I limit to those that come with nucleo/dev board and it says "active" itsa gonna be fine
2021-03-30T16:46:02 < englishman> there's a dearth of chips at the moment.
2021-03-30T16:46:03 < drzacek> but good point
2021-03-30T16:46:21 < englishman> it's temporary but could last a year depending on who you talk to
2021-03-30T16:46:29 < drzacek> those damn russians!
2021-03-30T16:46:36 < drzacek> wait, who's fault is it?
2021-03-30T16:46:46 < englishman> idk but there's plenty of msp430 in stock if you want those
2021-03-30T16:46:51 < drzacek> nope
2021-03-30T16:46:55 < englishman> smart
2021-03-30T16:47:08 < drzacek> aren't those 16bit? 
2021-03-30T16:47:33 < englishman> barely
2021-03-30T16:47:37 < drzacek> anyways, me want stm32, got some (minimal but still) experience with them soo
2021-03-30T16:48:15 < ventyl> if you can write C and have any bare metal experience, then it probably doesn't matter a lot, which device you use
2021-03-30T16:50:04 < drzacek> maybe, kinda liked the cubemx hardware designer thingy
2021-03-30T16:51:41 < drzacek> btw what are those wlcsp packages? those ufgba ufqfpn lga lqwerty ones are clear, different kinds of smd stuff, but those don't even have dimensions listed there? some high-tech stuff that regular mortals can't use?
2021-03-30T16:52:50 < zyp> wlcsp are bare dies with balls attached directly
2021-03-30T16:53:50 < zyp> with typically 0.5mm or smaller pitch, so you're probably not even able to break one out unless you've got a board with microvias
2021-03-30T16:54:48 < drzacek> what they good for?
2021-03-30T16:54:57 < zyp> compactness
2021-03-30T16:55:22 < drzacek> meh
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2021-03-30T17:05:48 < karlp> and being free light sensors...
2021-03-30T17:09:48 < drzacek> so how do I compare current consumption at all? it will vary a lot depending on use case/used periphery etc, yes, I know, but surely there's some rough estimates to compare between chips, right?
2021-03-30T17:09:59 < drzacek> me wants to power from battery
2021-03-30T17:10:52 < jpa-> L is lower power :)
2021-03-30T17:13:00 < drzacek> so the stm32Hxx can be discarded?
2021-03-30T17:14:44 < karlp> depends whta batteries mean to you, and what you need to be doing,
2021-03-30T17:15:19 < karlp> but a manyhundredmegahurtz dual core is probably not what most people think of when they think of battery powered....
2021-03-30T17:15:24 < jpa-> stm32h has quite advanced power saving features, but if you don't take advantage of those it is a power hog
2021-03-30T17:15:37 < karlp> but drones and shit are battery powered too, just depeneds what you want to do, for how long, and how often...
2021-03-30T17:15:45 < jpa-> and laptops..
2021-03-30T17:15:50 < karlp> really?!
2021-03-30T17:16:00 < jpa-> and cars :D
2021-03-30T17:16:06 < karlp> can you run them on an stmp32h7? :)
2021-03-30T17:16:33 < drzacek> it is suppose to be a wireless sensor platform. It has to sit in small compartment, read analog values, use TIMer as encoder, do FFT and send data away at 150-200kBps 
2021-03-30T17:16:34 < jpa-> the lack of MMU hurts a bit :)
2021-03-30T17:17:09 < karlp> 150kBps and you're a low power sensor?!
2021-03-30T17:17:10 < jpa-> if it is transmitting at 200kBps constantly, it will probably use a lot of power in any case
2021-03-30T17:17:51 < drzacek> then it would need a bit bigger battery
2021-03-30T17:18:19 < drzacek> did I mentioned 1mhz sample rate on adc?
2021-03-30T17:18:45 < qyx> hurmpfh what
2021-03-30T17:18:52 < qyx> 150-200 kBps?
2021-03-30T17:19:45 < qyx> smells like some SDR thing
2021-03-30T17:19:45 < jpa-> drzacek: so how long do you expect your battery to last with constant use?
2021-03-30T17:19:57 < drzacek> well it can do mbit with spi sooo
2021-03-30T17:20:03 < drzacek> 8h would be nice
2021-03-30T17:20:18 < qyx> oh then thats not low power
2021-03-30T17:20:26 < jpa-> that's probably manageable; should be pretty easy to get 100mA usage, and with some effort perhaps down to 10mA
2021-03-30T17:20:41 < drzacek> now we're talking
2021-03-30T17:20:42 < qyx> you can run a full featured octa core lunix for 8 hours on a small battery
2021-03-30T17:20:51 < qyx> with 10xx MBps wifi
2021-03-30T17:20:52 < karlp> +1
2021-03-30T17:20:54 < drzacek> define "small"
2021-03-30T17:20:57 < karlp> phone?
2021-03-30T17:20:59 < karlp> duh.
2021-03-30T17:21:13 < drzacek> got 42x42mm space
2021-03-30T17:21:26 < karlp> so smart watch sized...
2021-03-30T17:21:31 < karlp> how thick? :)
2021-03-30T17:21:47 < drzacek> as small as possible of course
2021-03-30T17:21:48 < qyx> but doing 1 msps ADC with FFT and 200 kB is doable on a L4
2021-03-30T17:22:04 < jpa-> depends totally on FFT block size
2021-03-30T17:22:22 < qyx> that too
2021-03-30T17:22:33 < drzacek> 500khz signal and 5khz res, so 100 ? 
2021-03-30T17:23:13 < qyx> 256 FFT on a 1 msps signal gives you 128 bins on a 0-500 kHz band
2021-03-30T17:23:27 < qyx> so about 2 kHz resolution
2021-03-30T17:23:32 < qyx> fuk no
2021-03-30T17:23:42 < jpa-> funny math
2021-03-30T17:23:47 < qyx> half of that
2021-03-30T17:23:48 < jpa-> but result is correct
2021-03-30T17:23:51 < qyx> 3.9 kHz
2021-03-30T17:24:14 < drzacek> I like those numbers
2021-03-30T17:25:26 < drzacek> so my fancy list got this chips https://paste.debian.net/1191673/ 
2021-03-30T17:26:09 < qyx> how did you get it?
2021-03-30T17:26:16 < qyx> the list
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2021-03-30T17:27:43 < drzacek> STMCUFinder, filter by M4/M7/M33 (DSP Capable cores), form factor =< 10x10mm, 3x adc, 1x i2c 1x spi 1x timer, then took the ones that had some dev board available
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2021-03-30T17:29:38 < drzacek> I assume that similar (same family*?) chips can be programmed the same way and I can get away with other dev board that the target chip, probly?
2021-03-30T17:29:59 < karlp> 2200 page HAL+LL api reference, doesn't have all the functions in it. nice.
2021-03-30T17:30:33 < jpa-> drzacek: kind-of, but even just dealing with different pin assignment is unnecessary waste of time
2021-03-30T17:30:49 < qyx> drzacek: dou you really need 3 ADCs?
2021-03-30T17:30:56 < karlp> drzacek: I feel like f3 should be on there still, but... sure, any of those really? f4, g4, f7, l4, l4+, l5, ....
2021-03-30T17:30:59 < qyx> do you want to sample simultaneously?
2021-03-30T17:31:03 < drzacek> well the list has one L5 and some L4s 
2021-03-30T17:31:09 < karlp> like... _really_ simultaneously....
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2021-03-30T17:31:27 < drzacek> yeah it might be my misunderstanding of the ADC, I just need 3 ADC pins, so one ADC but 3 channels on it, right?
2021-03-30T17:31:38 < drzacek> tho it might be good idea to have that 1mhz stuff on separate adc
2021-03-30T17:31:56 < karlp> if you only need 3 channels, alll of the stm32s have enough external channels for that.
2021-03-30T17:32:14 < jpa-> ADC bitness is probably a consideration also, H7 has 16-bit ADC while most other families have 12-bit
2021-03-30T17:32:33 < drzacek> karlp, what cortex core does f3 have?
2021-03-30T17:32:37 < karlp> m4f
2021-03-30T17:32:51 < drzacek> oh
2021-03-30T17:32:55 < karlp> f3 is ~somewhat superseded by g4, but it's still available and cheap.
2021-03-30T17:33:03 < karlp> nto as low pwoer as some of the newer bits, but... 
2021-03-30T17:33:31 < karlp> is h7 really 16bit, not just "hardware oversampling" like l4?
2021-03-30T17:33:36  * karlp didn't know that.
2021-03-30T17:33:46 < jpa-> really 16bit AFAIK
2021-03-30T17:34:23 < jpa-> it does 16 bit at 3MSps
2021-03-30T17:35:14 < drzacek> yeah, 16bit would be really nice (not for the 500khz signal tho), but I can get away with 12bit, and 16bit looks kinda limitting
2021-03-30T17:35:22 < drzacek> isn't h7 the most high-powered stuff out there?
2021-03-30T17:35:36 < jpa-> yeah
2021-03-30T17:36:09 < jpa-> though not a problem with your power budget, it is simple to get it below 50mA usage even when running at 100MHz
2021-03-30T17:36:45 < jpa-> but it is quite a bit more complex than many of the simpler families, lots of docs to read
2021-03-30T17:37:15 < jpa-> IIRC some F3s have 12-bit fast ADC and 16-bit slow ADC
2021-03-30T17:38:17 < drzacek> "three 16bit sigma delta adc", apparently true
2021-03-30T17:38:20 < qyx> but 16 slow ADC on F3 is really slow
2021-03-30T17:38:23 < karlp> fucking kchmviewer crashed gnome desktop, fucking fuck..
2021-03-30T17:38:40 < qyx> 16 ksps or so iirc
2021-03-30T17:38:51 < jpa-> yeah
2021-03-30T17:39:18 < drzacek> slow is bad
2021-03-30T17:39:20  * karlp exports GDK_BACKEND=x11 a efw more times.
2021-03-30T17:39:21 < drzacek> slow kills realtime
2021-03-30T17:39:36 < karlp> 12bits is still plenty... :)
2021-03-30T17:39:46 < drzacek> karlp, may I interest you in some fine plasma desktop?
2021-03-30T17:39:51 < qyx> should be enough for everyone
2021-03-30T17:39:58 < drzacek> it could 
2021-03-30T17:40:01 < drzacek> but
2021-03-30T17:40:03 < karlp> drzacek: no. you may not.
2021-03-30T17:40:18 < jpa-> karlp: i have a $2 windows 10 license for you
2021-03-30T17:40:23 < karlp> this is a symptom of an excessivbely upgraded in place desktop.
2021-03-30T17:40:38 < karlp> my "fresher" laptop install behaves better.
2021-03-30T17:40:41 < drzacek> dwm then
2021-03-30T17:40:45 < drzacek> anyways
2021-03-30T17:41:05 < jpa-> 12 bit with oversampling can get you quite far, but remember to check the linearity specifications if that is important
2021-03-30T17:41:05 < drzacek> is every chip capable of using timer as encoder input?
2021-03-30T17:41:27 < jpa-> yeah, pretty much every chip has at least one timer (usually TIM1) capable of that
2021-03-30T17:41:41 < jpa-> many have multiple timers with encoder input feature
2021-03-30T17:41:50 < drzacek> I got 2 handwheels on stm32f1 hooked to my lathe, works fine af 
2021-03-30T17:43:00 < drzacek> okay, so the STM32Lxx are the thing to use for low power stuff, while still allowing me to do everything I need? Even though they seem to run at much slower cpu clocks? 
2021-03-30T17:43:35 < karlp> or, h7 runs at much higher....?
2021-03-30T17:43:40 < karlp> l4 runs pretty quick... :)
2021-03-30T17:44:34 < jpa-> your application does not sound very demanding, even a dirt cheap age old STM32F103 could do it - not that i would recommend it for new stuff
2021-03-30T17:44:50 < drzacek> STM32L4P5AG, STM32L4R9AI, STM32L4R9ZI and STM32L562QE - those are the Lx chips from my list. The L5 seems to be M33 based, tho the wiki shows DSP as "optional" there - how optional are there? 
2021-03-30T17:45:01 < drzacek> jpa-, no dsp, so fft would kill it
2021-03-30T17:45:13 < jpa-> the DSP instructions do not make such a big difference
2021-03-30T17:45:45 < qyx> you don't need L4+
2021-03-30T17:45:51 < drzacek> it's about realtime tho, so everything that costs more time has potential of breaking the time requirements
2021-03-30T17:45:51 < jpa-> as your data does not fit in 8 bits, at most the DSP instructions will double the speed of some parts of the FFT calculation
2021-03-30T17:45:51 < qyx> pick a common L431 or similar
2021-03-30T17:46:33 < qyx> L452 is one of the bestest in the L4 family
2021-03-30T17:46:38 < qyx> the others from your list are L4+
2021-03-30T17:46:53 < jpa-> you may want to check software support also - i.e. decide whether you'll go cube, or bare metal, or use something else - and if it is something else, check what chips it supports
2021-03-30T17:47:10 < qyx> L4+ is faster, more, SRAM, more flash, octospi and stuff, less common
2021-03-30T17:48:48 < drzacek> if possible I'd rather stick to cubemx
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2021-03-30T17:49:04 < jpa-> sure :)
2021-03-30T17:49:05 < qyx> a brave decision
2021-03-30T17:49:15 < jpa-> for some of us, it is the other way - if possible, avoid cubemx
2021-03-30T17:49:32 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-03-30T17:49:33 < drzacek> brave sounds so negative this days
2021-03-30T17:50:23  * karlp is attempting to start a cubemx project and hating it already
2021-03-30T17:50:32 < qyx> a colleague of mine was quite satisfied with mbed
2021-03-30T17:50:45 < qyx> he has never touched a single stm32
2021-03-30T17:50:51 < qyx> before
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2021-03-30T17:51:10 < karlp> ST provides all these buitl in standard EUI-64,
2021-03-30T17:51:25 < karlp> then in some comments inside teh code goes, "Note: In order to use the Public Address in a final product, a dedicated
2021-03-30T17:51:26 < karlp>  * 24bits company ID (OUI) shall be bought."
2021-03-30T17:51:29 < karlp> wtf?!
2021-03-30T17:51:33 < karlp> screw you guyys
2021-03-30T17:52:22 < qyx> just dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1 count=8 | xxd -i
2021-03-30T17:52:23 < qyx> and yolo
2021-03-30T17:53:26 < jpa-> qyx: better remember to clear the global/local bit or things will be funny :)
2021-03-30T17:53:40 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/dSzEq 
2021-03-30T17:53:43 < jpa-> and unicast/multicast also
2021-03-30T17:54:28 < qyx> oh karlp is exploring those shady waters of BLE configuration for his devices
2021-03-30T17:55:18 < karlp> fucking gross.
2021-03-30T17:55:21 < karlp> I hate this so much already.
2021-03-30T17:55:36 < karlp> it was all so breezy in the beginnning.
2021-03-30T17:55:40 -!- spacebyte [~tsm@194.38.147.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-03-30T17:55:55 < karlp> jpa-: heh, I did that as an intern...
2021-03-30T17:56:09 < karlp> used, 11,22,33 or something for a mac address.  
2021-03-30T17:56:19 < karlp> office lan performance became.... strained....
2021-03-30T17:56:48 < drzacek> so L4+ is better, but not as popular, and beefier, so might suck more current?
2021-03-30T17:56:59 < drzacek> or what are the reasons to go after lesser part?
2021-03-30T17:57:05 < karlp> l4 and l4+ are pretty similar. you're going to have to evaluate that yourself.
2021-03-30T17:57:15 < qyx> price for example
2021-03-30T17:57:17 < drzacek> okay then
2021-03-30T17:57:32 < qyx> l4+ is for high end low power specialties
2021-03-30T17:57:37 < karlp> l4, l4+, l5, g4, f7, h7, f4, f3 are all goign to have the processing power and feasibile power consumption and feature set from our limited understanding of yoru goals...
2021-03-30T17:57:42 < jpa-> drzacek: usually new parts are less available and the software support is flakier; also if very new, they often have more errata in first revision
2021-03-30T17:57:52 < drzacek> the L452 seems to run at 80mhz, I'm afraid that it might not be enough, ? 
2021-03-30T17:58:01 < karlp> it's probably fine...
2021-03-30T17:58:05 < karlp> you only have 3 channels...
2021-03-30T17:58:14 < karlp> but hey, nucleo boards are like $10
2021-03-30T17:58:23 < qyx> meybe you could tell us what is your intended use
2021-03-30T17:58:29 < drzacek> well I don't want to bore you with details of how exactly it should all work, you already helped me a lot guys in picking the right stuff
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2021-03-30T17:59:01 < qyx> and maybe i could stop writing in hungarian notation with typos
2021-03-30T17:59:31 < drzacek> yeah I saw that the nucleo boards are 13$ in STMCUFinder, wonder what's the REAL price gonna be if I really try to order it somewhere
2021-03-30T18:00:09 < jpa-> AN4841 has some benchmarks, 1024 point 16-bit FFT runs at about 1.2 MSps on 80MHz STM32L476, so 256 point should be no problem
2021-03-30T18:00:33 < drzacek> but why none of those actually show up on my list?
2021-03-30T18:00:44 < jpa-> because you selected 3 ADCs
2021-03-30T18:00:56 < jpa-> while you only needed 3 channels
2021-03-30T18:01:03 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/NUCLEO-L452RE?qs=zwwtnr6GuIyXyX5dw%2FgKaw%3D%3D
2021-03-30T18:01:04 < drzacek> ah
2021-03-30T18:01:12 < qyx> 12.34 € without VAT
2021-03-30T18:01:12 < drzacek> damn, me is a fool
2021-03-30T18:01:39 < qyx> where are you from?
2021-03-30T18:01:39 < drzacek> not bad
2021-03-30T18:01:44 < drzacek> I live in germany
2021-03-30T18:01:49 < effractur> nucleo is cheap 
2021-03-30T18:01:55 < effractur> often cheaper then spin your own
2021-03-30T18:02:04 < effractur> for testing stuff
2021-03-30T18:02:10  * drzacek looks at stm32f411 black pill that was 2.50eur on aliexpress
2021-03-30T18:02:12 < drzacek> yeah, it is
2021-03-30T18:02:37 < effractur> nucleo has buildin stlink
2021-03-30T18:02:41 < effractur> blackpill does not
2021-03-30T18:02:43 < qyx> you could try tme.eu in .de too
2021-03-30T18:02:44 < drzacek> AH!
2021-03-30T18:02:59 < drzacek> well, once you got stlink then it doesn't matter
2021-03-30T18:03:05 < effractur> true
2021-03-30T18:03:06 < drzacek> but it's a nice feature, didn't know about it
2021-03-30T18:03:10 < karlp> depends how much wiring you like...
2021-03-30T18:03:16 < drzacek> none at all
2021-03-30T18:03:21 < drzacek> cause I usually mess stuff up
2021-03-30T18:03:31 < karlp> then having the stlink onboard on a nucleo is far superior
2021-03-30T18:03:49 < karlp> also, unless I'm very much mistaken, swo isn't brought out ont he blackpills, so no trace 
2021-03-30T18:04:06 < karlp> and 3+ wires dangling all the time for swd.
2021-03-30T18:04:14 < drzacek> I'll look at the stm32l4-non-plus and + chips, do some comparison, maybe try to do some simple project in cubemx and see what actually is available, since you guys said there are problems now
2021-03-30T18:04:34 < karlp> g4 should be perfectly suitable too.
2021-03-30T18:04:38 < drzacek> ok
2021-03-30T18:05:02 < drzacek> unfortunately, I need to go, food is waiting
2021-03-30T18:05:07 < drzacek> thanks again for all your help
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2021-03-30T18:18:42 < karlp> nice one. st places some variables in a "BLE_APP_CONTEXT" section.
2021-03-30T18:18:45 < karlp> then... just doesn't use it.
2021-03-30T18:19:48 < karlp> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X0000BL7cfLSQR/integrating-ota-into-an-existing-project?t=1617117500566
2021-03-30T18:19:50 < qyx> whats that https://www.mouser.sk/images/vishay/lrg/TSOP_TT_DSL.jpg
2021-03-30T18:19:59 < karlp> no worries everybody, it's not used... by design?
2021-03-30T18:20:22 < karlp> qyx: is that thermal pad on top for heatsink attachment?
2021-03-30T18:20:39 < qyx> it is an IR receiver
2021-03-30T18:20:49 < karlp> guess it's the IR window then?
2021-03-30T18:20:51 < jpa-> i wonder how they come up with those pad shapes
2021-03-30T18:21:08 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/datasheet/2/427/tsop572h-1767137.pdf
2021-03-30T18:21:09 < qyx> curious too
2021-03-30T18:21:47 < karlp> advertises low height, 
2021-03-30T18:21:52 < jpa-> "Typically even 2.0V is possible"  ... does it work on 2V or not :D
2021-03-30T18:21:54 < karlp> still lies on it's back....
2021-03-30T18:22:14 < ventyl> fuck
2021-03-30T18:22:29 < ventyl> 5 registers setting size and offset - same layout
2021-03-30T18:22:37 < ventyl> 6th - different layout
2021-03-30T18:22:43  * karlp giggles
2021-03-30T18:22:48 < karlp> hello st!
2021-03-30T18:22:54 < ventyl> i want the stuff they do smoke
2021-03-30T18:23:13  * karlp peers at port I
2021-03-30T18:23:26 < jpa-> i wonder why that even has a thermal pad, with 5mW max power usage
2021-03-30T18:23:38 < qyx> to complicate the soldering
2021-03-30T18:23:40 < ventyl> and I thought, that it is hard to create something worse than ST7162
2021-03-30T18:23:42 < jpa-> the pad layout looks like they just wanted to maximize short circuits
2021-03-30T18:23:42 < karlp> yeah, when he said IR receiver I was thinking that too.
2021-03-30T18:24:20 < qyx> yeah low power again
2021-03-30T18:24:25 < qyx> supply current 0.5 mA
2021-03-30T18:24:29 < qyx> *5 mA
2021-03-30T18:24:58 < qyx> what, later on they say 0.7 mA
2021-03-30T18:25:09 < qyx> so maybe 2 V, maybe 2.5 V, maybe 0.7 mA, maybe more
2021-03-30T18:25:47 < jpa-> hmm, the proposed pad layout looks like they don't even want you to solder anything but the corner pads
2021-03-30T18:26:33 < qyx> interesting
2021-03-30T18:27:22 < qyx> let's buy that thing and try
2021-03-30T18:31:56 < karlp> nice. st middleware is all "HearRate" st user side is all "HeartRate"
2021-03-30T18:34:03 < Laurenceb> keeek
2021-03-30T18:34:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-56577064
2021-03-30T18:34:29 < Laurenceb> >now seamlessly replaced apparently by interests such as Dad's Army
2021-03-30T18:34:34 < Laurenceb> literally retarded
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2021-03-30T19:37:28 < mawk> https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56577725
2021-03-30T19:37:30 < mawk> lol
2021-03-30T19:45:18 < Steffanx> read 3 lines, closed page.
2021-03-30T19:45:47 < Steffanx> Also because i cannot stand this 1 sentence/paragraph writing style. fuck that.
2021-03-30T19:46:34 < Steffanx> hi mawk, how is your wonderful day today?
2021-03-30T19:48:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-03-30T19:50:33 < mawk> too hot
2021-03-30T19:53:31 < Steffanx> lolno
2021-03-30T19:54:02 < karlp> UsageFault due to bad T or IT bits in EPSR
2021-03-30T19:54:04 < karlp> wat?
2021-03-30T19:57:12 < jpa-> karlp: jump to address not ending in 1
2021-03-30T19:57:28 < karlp> yeah, this is just compiling the demo ota app from st.
2021-03-30T19:57:32 < karlp> it's been fun..
2021-03-30T19:58:10 < jpa-> probably multilib fail like it is 2010 again
2021-03-30T19:58:17 < qyx> making a tesseract from the cube?
2021-03-30T19:58:39 < karlp> it's working now, and it literealyl feels like I'm just doing the sme thing over and over until it works...
2021-03-30T19:58:56 < karlp> I've obviously made some slightly different incantation this time.
2021-03-30T19:59:24 < qyx> https://boyter.org/static/books/CfSQdwUW8AErog1.jpg
2021-03-30T19:59:29 < qyx> sorry, not being helpful
2021-03-30T20:00:04 < karlp> one would _hope_ that pressing play/debug in cubetimeide would only load the sections from what the linker says, from 0x7000 onwards and you wouldn't have to use the bt ota for everything, but... /me shrugs
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2021-03-30T20:04:12 < karlp> ahhh. wonderful. it seems that one of the st phone apps filters on the device reported name.
2021-03-30T20:04:18 < karlp> so you change that to verify that you're running your code
2021-03-30T20:04:22 < karlp> and it .... just hides it...
2021-03-30T20:04:26 < karlp> "not an st app"
2021-03-30T20:05:43 < jpa-> i've had some coworkers who have amazing persistence in just trying thing after thing until they get stuff to work
2021-03-30T20:06:24 < jpa-> i have close to zero, which makes it especially difficult to work with stuff that is poorly documented & no source code to look at
2021-03-30T20:08:25 < karlp> this has been suck.
2021-03-30T20:08:42 < karlp> I think I'm making progress, but holy shit
2021-03-30T20:12:35 < karlp> it's kinda cute stepping in the ide and seeing the phone display update though.
2021-03-30T20:13:18 < karlp> lets go back to what I was trying an hour ago and see if that works now that I've understoodt heir hidden filtering
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2021-03-30T20:29:19 < qyx> jpa-: my latest work attempt ended interestingly, the client recommended me to seek a psychiatric help after telling them I am not touching their undocumented spaghetti BLE code (after a light technical "due dilligence")
2021-03-30T20:29:38 < qyx> they also accused me of not knowing how the world works
2021-03-30T20:29:48 < zyp> haha, wat
2021-03-30T20:33:11 < qyx> probably because I told them to use a less ratarded way to generate a waveform than NOPs
2021-03-30T20:33:22 < qyx> but seriously, it made me furious
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2021-03-30T20:47:30 < Laurenceb> keeek 
2021-03-30T20:47:32 < Laurenceb> the xmos way
2021-03-30T21:06:14 < Steffanx> but when else you do when you are out of timers qyx ?
2021-03-30T21:06:45 < Steffanx> You can always try to abuse UART?
2021-03-30T21:07:37 < qyx> you mean when you used a single one?
2021-03-30T21:12:57 < Steffanx> :)
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2021-03-30T21:25:00 < aandrew> qyx: wow lol
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2021-03-30T21:25:09 < aandrew> nind you I find most BLE code to be hideous
2021-03-30T21:25:20 < aandrew> nordic's, onsemi's, haven't looked at ST's
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2021-03-30T21:31:07 < antto> bleh
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2021-03-30T22:02:33 < Steffanx> Tried silab yet aandrew ?
2021-03-30T22:02:59 < Steffanx> Welcome antto long time no see
2021-03-30T22:03:23 < antto> i woz here all teh time
2021-03-30T22:03:34 < Steffanx> actively?
2021-03-30T22:03:34 < antto> roughly
2021-03-30T22:04:03 < antto> no, i have not much "good" to add to this channel
2021-03-30T22:04:25 < Steffanx> hows your music maker thingy going?
2021-03-30T22:04:53 < antto> i fiddled with some old unfinished crap recently
2021-03-30T22:05:30 < antto> i'm generally very depressed about that whole thing
2021-03-30T22:05:52 < Steffanx> awh, because no stm32?
2021-03-30T22:05:55 < antto> need to evacuate the sh*t to linux and toss the crapdows
2021-03-30T22:06:14 < antto> oh wait, were you asking about my same54_audio board?
2021-03-30T22:06:18 < Steffanx> yeaah
2021-03-30T22:06:30 < antto> no progress on that, i'm stuck
2021-03-30T22:06:32 < ventyl> linux and music sounds as quite bad combination
2021-03-30T22:06:41 < Steffanx> ask Laurenceb about it
2021-03-30T22:06:43 < antto> it's blinking here, under 3 layers of dust
2021-03-30T22:07:46 < ventyl> Steffanx: tried on my own. quite poor results :/
2021-03-30T22:07:50 < antto> iirc, i couldn't get input audio into the codec, it gives me flat 0s, i thought i might have fried its pins or something, so i desoldered it and soldered a brand new one, all so carefully, and same sh*t
2021-03-30T22:08:17 < Laurenceb> wut is this?
2021-03-30T22:08:22 < Laurenceb> usb audio?
2021-03-30T22:52:35 < Steffanx> We used some TI amps and audio i2s muxes at work.. which are now also unobtanium like the stm32 of the same product
2021-03-30T23:00:51 < englishman> called digikey
2021-03-30T23:00:56 < englishman> they said "lead time has been suppresssed"
2021-03-30T23:00:57 < englishman> on stm32
2021-03-30T23:01:03 < englishman> so they just give up
2021-03-30T23:07:11 < qyx> are we migrating everything to esp32?
2021-03-30T23:07:29 < englishman> you mean you haven't already?
2021-03-30T23:09:43 < ventyl> Atmel!
2021-03-30T23:09:58 < ventyl> back to mainframe era
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2021-03-30T23:23:49 < machinehum> Can you used two trace antennas on the same PCB?
2021-03-30T23:23:59 < machinehum> For two seperate wifi radios
2021-03-30T23:29:54 < qyx> many routers do that
2021-03-30T23:34:27 < machinehum> Routers usually use antennas, which are typically center fed dipoles. I wanna use 2x inverted F trace antennas which effectivly use the gnd of the board as the other pole
2021-03-30T23:35:21 < machinehum> routers typically used center fed dipoles*, Ignore the first part where I seems to have claimed all antennas are center fed dipoles
2021-03-30T23:46:43 < Steffanx> Good luck with Atmel ventyl 
2021-03-30T23:46:51 < Steffanx> I would try microchip
2021-03-30T23:49:31 < qyx> usually yes, but not exclusively
2021-03-30T23:49:51 < qyx> some mikrotiks have multiple internal antennas, some of them are PIFAs
2021-03-30T23:50:01 < qyx> some are, uhm, how is that called
2021-03-30T23:50:21 < qyx> a piece of creatively shaped metal soldered on the pcb
2021-03-30T23:50:59 < qyx> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Planar_Inverted_F-Shaped_DECT_Antenna.jpg
2021-03-30T23:51:10 < qyx> apparently F antennas can be planar and not planar
2021-03-30T23:51:18 < karlp> they're just in "antenna, board mount" on digikey that style...
2021-03-30T23:52:21 < qyx> http://weblance.com.ua/uploads/posts/2015-03/1427319060_mikrotik_hap_lite_rb941-2n_gallery_10.jpg
2021-03-30T23:52:27 < qyx> this is a router with two PIFA
2021-03-30T23:52:45 < karlp> ala https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/proant-ab/PRO-OB-440/4895679
2021-03-30T23:53:32 < qyx> looks pro
2021-03-30T23:53:53 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, this si my first time looking at the guts or even the skin of bluetooth. and its a wondeerful mix of horrific and wow, that was easy. all at the same time.
--- Day changed Wed Mar 31 2021
2021-03-31T00:00:07 < ventyl> ffs
2021-03-31T00:08:53 < machinehum> Alright just dumping two on the board to see what happens
2021-03-31T00:12:06 < karlp> it will "work"
2021-03-31T00:12:20 < karlp> it's always an antenna right, all that matters is whter you get the range you want.... :)
2021-03-31T00:12:41 < machinehum> Yeah right
2021-03-31T00:13:26 < machinehum> Also... has anyone taking a product through CE or UL or whatever before? I need to design something that plugs right in to mains
2021-03-31T00:13:37 < machinehum> taken*
2021-03-31T00:14:09 < karlp> these are only 0.20 each and dual band enve: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/2108964-1/10821910
2021-03-31T00:14:21 < karlp> CE and UL are pretty different.
2021-03-31T00:15:34 < machinehum> Pretty sure I meant UL
2021-03-31T00:17:30 < karlp> figure a couple of grand for starters, plus quarterly fees for inspections for UL or ETL, 
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2021-03-31T00:18:01 < karlp> but you'll want to read more abotu whats' required for your desired markets and products...
2021-03-31T00:18:33 < karlp> and be prepared for 6 months of pencil pushing with fuck all happening.
2021-03-31T00:28:27 < machinehum> "Technically, UL certification isn’t absolutely required to sell your product in the U.S. But, if the product does plug into an AC electrical outlet you would be crazy to not get this certification."
2021-03-31T00:28:33 < machinehum> What the fuck does that mean
2021-03-31T00:28:57 < machinehum> Oh, liability
2021-03-31T00:29:02 < karlp> it means some people _beleive_ it's required, and some buyers will require it, whether it's legally required or not
2021-03-31T00:29:06 < karlp> liability has nothign to do with it.
2021-03-31T00:29:54 < machinehum> So where does the liability fall? This article I'm reading says it would be me
2021-03-31T00:30:01 < karlp> it's always you...
2021-03-31T00:30:28 < karlp> say hello to mr LLC.
2021-03-31T00:30:41 < karlp> or whatever the jurisdictionally relevant name is...
2021-03-31T00:32:01 < machinehum> A corperation would have the same liability rules
2021-03-31T00:32:08 < machinehum> Where I'm from... I think
2021-03-31T00:32:53 < karlp> yes, but it stops being you personally... which is the important bit.
2021-03-31T00:33:16 < machinehum> Yeah I need to open one of those
2021-03-31T00:33:50 < machinehum> Yeah not doing this UL bs, extensive testing with a good design should be enough
2021-03-31T00:35:19 < karlp> build and design to the same specs...
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2021-03-31T02:39:30  * karlp cries. 1 forward, 1 back I guess.
2021-03-31T02:39:55 < karlp> got my apps building and running repeatedly, but one of them makes no uart output. no idea what's different...
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2021-03-31T03:21:34 < aandrew> karlp: thta's a pretty accurate way to describe BLE
2021-03-31T03:26:00  * karlp sighs.  one demo app tx uart dma works, the other the dma regs are all un-initialized. code looks the same
2021-03-31T03:26:18 < karlp> cubeide pros: integrated debugging works, SFR view is nice.
2021-03-31T03:26:22 < karlp> cons: what a fuckignmess
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2021-03-31T04:10:02 < karlp> no freertos support in this thing either
2021-03-31T04:10:54 < aandrew> everyone's running freertos now
2021-03-31T04:11:10 < aandrew> nordic created their "thread" variant of their shit which is just freertos
2021-03-31T04:11:31 < karlp> well, st's about to throw it all out and replace it with azure rtos...
2021-03-31T04:11:38 < karlp> so I bet that will be halfarsed.
2021-03-31T04:11:48 < aandrew> oh jeez
2021-03-31T04:11:50 < karlp> still no fucking usart output from one demo. all teh others work. 
2021-03-31T04:11:53 < aandrew> isn't azure rtos just threadx
2021-03-31T04:12:00 < karlp> way too late to be looking at this
2021-03-31T04:29:24 < aandrew> wtf a green led with a 3.3V Vf? https://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/APDA1806ZGCK.pdf
2021-03-31T04:30:25 < karlp> look mah, no resistors
2021-03-31T04:33:38 < aandrew> that's pretty much what the previous guy did
2021-03-31T04:33:47 < aandrew> 1R
2021-03-31T04:34:04 < aandrew> but the Vf is 3.3-4.1V and he's driving it from a 3.3V supply so some boards aren't lighting up
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2021-03-31T04:37:03 < aandrew> not to mention that it's fucking telescope to the sun bright
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2021-03-31T06:59:03 < jpa-> qyx: i've told one client that i had to get psychiatric help because of their codebase, but they keep coming back to me..
2021-03-31T07:03:29 < jpa-> https://github.com/azure-rtos/threadx/blob/master/common/src/tx_time_set.c   the ratio of boilerplate to code is high on this one
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2021-03-31T09:55:00 < Steffanx> Lol they don't take you seriously, what's new jpa- ?
2021-03-31T09:59:25 < jpa-> nothing new under the big glowing cubemx
2021-03-31T10:12:15 < Steffanx> I have to honour to work with mplab x and a PIC. I was kinda surprised by the code generator. It even lets you merge change on generated files when you want to regenerate them. 
2021-03-31T10:12:27 < Steffanx> *have the honour
2021-03-31T10:12:41 < Steffanx> *changes
2021-03-31T10:12:49 < Steffanx> Such english such early morning 
2021-03-31T10:17:15 < ventyl> much english
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2021-03-31T10:45:32 < drzacek> Steffanx, merge changes? 
2021-03-31T10:46:12 < drzacek> the cubemx only overwrites own blocks, so user code (is placed in right place) is untouched on re-generation. Also cool imho
2021-03-31T10:48:03 < ventyl> damn autogenerated code
2021-03-31T10:49:23 < drzacek> autogenerated code is love, autogenerated code is life
2021-03-31T10:49:42 < drzacek> it lets you write less code, and we all know the goal of programming to do as little programming as possible
2021-03-31T10:50:25 < ventyl> then you hit generate in fucking EB Tresos and it vomits like 10 megabytes of complefuckingtely unreadable autogenerated asynchronous MISRA-C
2021-03-31T10:52:27 < drzacek> no idea what those words mean
2021-03-31T10:54:17 < ventyl> that's one of two major code generators in use in automotive industry
2021-03-31T10:54:26 < ventyl> for OS + runtime generation
2021-03-31T11:09:34 < drzacek> so I'm still playing with the MCUFinder
2021-03-31T11:10:07 < drzacek> what exactly is the "Ethernet" support? I assume it's not only the hardware lan on the eval board, only some direct support for lan in chip? 
2021-03-31T11:10:50 < drzacek> but how does that work? I still need external module for that, right? How is that different from those w5500 (or something?) ethernet modules we can hook to arduino and similar?
2021-03-31T11:13:59 < ventyl> with STM, PHY is inside MCU, you only hook up external MAC (mostly). AVR in atmel is not aware of ethernet existence and for it, ethernet PHY is just yet another SPI peripheral
2021-03-31T11:14:22 < ventyl> advantage is, that with STM you can use stuff like DMA to offload workload and gather higher performance
2021-03-31T11:15:05 < ventyl> seriously, Arduino is outdated stuff coming from '90s
2021-03-31T11:15:17 < ventyl> and overpriced
2021-03-31T11:15:58 < drzacek> it probly is
2021-03-31T11:16:12 < Steffanx> drzacek: and then they give you Middleware with bugs or you accidentally make a mistake with the code blocks and it will just overwrite it
2021-03-31T11:16:14 < drzacek> what i meant is that there are those external modules we can connect to anything
2021-03-31T11:16:16 < Steffanx> Not even warn you
2021-03-31T11:16:50 < ventyl> drzacek: those external modules are mostly last-resort stuff
2021-03-31T11:16:56 < Steffanx> At least this tool says "Hey I see x.c changed, wanna mergeeee"?
2021-03-31T11:17:16 < drzacek> why I am asking? I want to make a mobile sensor platform with wireless communication. But before I get my hands on the communication module I wanted to use something instead during development, like lan cable directly to my pc
2021-03-31T11:17:19 < ventyl> and connecting ethernet to AVR, which doesn'
2021-03-31T11:17:29 < ventyl> t even have enough memory to store one complete MTU at once...
2021-03-31T11:17:46 < drzacek> forget the avr, no one wants to use atmegas here
2021-03-31T11:18:16 < ventyl> well, aren't all arduinos still AVR-exclusive?
2021-03-31T11:18:36 < Steffanx> No one here can use STM32.
2021-03-31T11:18:45 < drzacek> ventyl, I only use it as example for what you can connect that ethernet module to
2021-03-31T11:18:57 < Steffanx> There are SAM whatever tarduinos right?
2021-03-31T11:19:13 < drzacek> stmduino
2021-03-31T11:19:17 < drzacek> espduino
2021-03-31T11:19:22 < qyx> ventyl: the other way around
2021-03-31T11:19:31 < qyx> stm32 has eth mac built in
2021-03-31T11:19:31 < ventyl> qyx: MAC vs. PHY?
2021-03-31T11:20:05 < ventyl> ah right, that was an unfortunate swap
2021-03-31T11:21:37 < ventyl> drzacek: well, essentially, if you want to have non-zero performance, you want to have peripheral integrated and done in HW. if it is either external od bitbanged performance goes down and/or CPU load goes up
2021-03-31T11:22:02 < drzacek> well, yeah
2021-03-31T11:22:31 < drzacek> but if that's not the main goal, only a middle step before getting real hardware, I might skip it
2021-03-31T11:22:57 < drzacek> lack of ethernet-enable nucleo boards being strong argument against it too
2021-03-31T11:23:38 < ventyl> check olimex stuff
2021-03-31T11:24:05 < ventyl> i have some vintage olimex board here, which has ethernet. yet IDK how it is wired up
2021-03-31T11:25:15 < drzacek> are they stm32 based?
2021-03-31T11:25:26  * drzacek goes back to looking at the L4/L4+/L5s
2021-03-31T11:27:03 < ventyl> some are
2021-03-31T11:27:21 < ventyl> https://www.olimex.com/Products/ARM/ST/STM32-P107/
2021-03-31T11:27:23 < ventyl> this one
2021-03-31T11:27:27 < ventyl> but there are many others
2021-03-31T11:27:54 < ventyl> price is good, you can buy this and some SWD/JTAG, or another cheapo nucleo if you want to have two different devkits
2021-03-31T11:28:01 < drzacek> M3... 
2021-03-31T11:28:09 < drzacek> but price is not bad
2021-03-31T11:28:47 < ventyl> that board is pure vintage. 10+ years old
2021-03-31T11:29:06 < ventyl> but it should suffice for measurements
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2021-03-31T12:08:15 < drzacek> How should I understand the "Marketing status" field in mcu finder ? It says "Proposal", but the modules (nucleo boards and chips) are available in mouser.de and farnel
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2021-03-31T12:55:38 < jpa-> drzacek: which part is that?
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2021-03-31T12:56:35 < jpa-> for example STM32L452 some models are proposal but most are active
2021-03-31T12:57:58 < jpa-> probably the information is just outdated if you can buy the chips already
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2021-03-31T13:06:48 < ventyl> well nowadays the only important stuff is actual availability
2021-03-31T13:08:58 < jpa-> eh, how would the availability problem reduce the importance of other specs?
2021-03-31T13:10:14 < ventyl> I mean, with respect to "marketing status" and various availability stuff
2021-03-31T13:10:53 < ventyl> mainstream lowcost available is all fine, if it is out of stock and lead time is 40+ weeks, or undeterminable
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2021-03-31T13:19:32 < jpa-> Any ideas why my STM32H7 OTGFS is not working? BOOT0 DFU bootloader works on same port. I've compared GPIO and USB registers between DFU and my code, and they appear the same on relevant parts. It is not enabling the D+ pull-up for some reason, and even if I pull-up manually it won't enumerate.
2021-03-31T13:26:28 < ventyl> :)
2021-03-31T13:36:31 < drzacek> jpa-, yeah the L452 things 
2021-03-31T13:37:18 < drzacek> yeah, lots of chips from my list are either not there, or only single parts available, or they can be available in few months* probly
2021-03-31T13:37:35 < drzacek> at least on farnel.de, mouser.de seems to have abundance of everything
2021-03-31T13:37:43 < drzacek> so not sure how trustworthy is that
2021-03-31T13:39:15 < drzacek> qyx said yesterday that l452 is the bestest out there, so I'm looking at them now
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2021-03-31T14:12:31 < zyp> jpa-, which usb stack?
2021-03-31T14:13:30 < zyp> IIRC there's some changes in how the vbus detection settings work between different dwc_otg versions, so if you're using code that used to work on e.g. f4, you might be bitten by that
2021-03-31T14:13:59 < zyp> normally d+ pullup isn't enabled before vbus is detected
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2021-03-31T14:25:19 < mouseghost> whats the difference between Vdd and Vdda
2021-03-31T14:26:44 < zyp> a
2021-03-31T14:27:54 < mouseghost> thanks
2021-03-31T14:28:14 < karlp> jpa-: macros without ; after them? that threadx code looks so horrible.
2021-03-31T14:28:33 < zyp> mouseghost, the a stands for analog, i.e. it's the supply for stuff like the adc
2021-03-31T14:28:55 < mouseghost> ye i see
2021-03-31T14:29:00 < zyp> the datasheet states that they are both required to be connected to the same rail, the chip won't work without it
2021-03-31T14:29:10 < zyp> so normally you'd just connect them together
2021-03-31T14:29:33 < zyp> if you care a lot about analog performance, you'd separate them with a ferrite bead or something, but still fed from the same rail
2021-03-31T14:30:02 < zyp> but for normal use that's not necessary
2021-03-31T14:30:24 < mouseghost> why did they put in the other side smh
2021-03-31T14:30:35 < ventyl> EMC?
2021-03-31T14:31:03 < zyp> probably because that's the side of the die the bonding pads are
2021-03-31T14:32:27 < ventyl> karlp: are you aware of any usable PLL example for H7 for locm3?
2021-03-31T14:32:33 < ventyl> examples don't come to any help
2021-03-31T14:35:06 < karlp> what exactly is a "usable pll example" ?
2021-03-31T14:35:38 < karlp> drzacek: there's nucleo-144 boards with ethernet on board if that's your thing.
2021-03-31T14:35:54 < ventyl> initializer for struct rcc_pll_config, which won't ending up catched in an assertion would be OK
2021-03-31T14:35:57 < drzacek> zyp, also 100nF cap on each vdd, right?
2021-03-31T14:36:19 < ventyl> drzacek: that will generally help preventing unexpected resets a lot
2021-03-31T14:36:43 < karlp> eg https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/NUCLEO-F767ZI/6004740
2021-03-31T14:37:02 < karlp> what assertions are you hitting?
2021-03-31T14:37:22 < ventyl> vos related, pwr_vos_config ?
2021-03-31T14:37:30 < ventyl> pwr_set_vos_scale
2021-03-31T14:37:41 < karlp> there's assertions?!
2021-03-31T14:37:49 < drzacek> are there any nucleo boards with L4/4+/5 and BLE?
2021-03-31T14:38:14 < ventyl> yeah, to catch for dumbfucks like me, who try to configure PLL and don't care about VOS at all
2021-03-31T14:38:25 < zyp> drzacek, there's a stm32wb nucleo that does BLE
2021-03-31T14:38:33 < effractur> drzacek: there is a expantions module X-NUCLEO-IDB05A1
2021-03-31T14:38:35 < zyp> and wb is essentially a l4 plus radio
2021-03-31T14:38:43 < karlp> oh. those .... people fought me enough and got their own api, then left didn't they.
2021-03-31T14:38:48 < drzacek> oh
2021-03-31T14:38:51 < drzacek> nice
2021-03-31T14:38:53 < karlp> and unlike ~everythign else, there's no built in structs.
2021-03-31T14:39:06 < ventyl> yeah, I realized that
2021-03-31T14:39:24 < drzacek> effractur, kinda like arduino shields?
2021-03-31T14:39:25 < karlp> I still don't see any asserts?
2021-03-31T14:39:44 < karlp> oh, in the pwr code
2021-03-31T14:39:52 < effractur> drzacek: yea
2021-03-31T14:39:52 < ventyl> pwr.c:130
2021-03-31T14:39:56 < karlp> I mean, it's an enum.
2021-03-31T14:40:01 < karlp> how did you manage to hit an assert there?
2021-03-31T14:40:01 < effractur> and maybe there is also a discovery board with one
2021-03-31T14:40:05 < karlp> use the enum vaclues?
2021-03-31T14:40:29 < ventyl> by not initializing voltage_scale member of rcc_pll_config I guess
2021-03-31T14:40:39 < effractur> drzacek: but also NUCLEO-WB55RG 
2021-03-31T14:40:51 < effractur> with a wb on it that has it onboard afiak
2021-03-31T14:41:04 < drzacek> yep, looking at them now
2021-03-31T14:41:11 < drzacek> damn, st really made a lot of those things
2021-03-31T14:41:33 < effractur> yup
2021-03-31T14:41:59 < karlp> ventyl: is http://libopencm3.org/docs/latest/stm32h7/html/structrcc__pll__config.html enough to go on?
2021-03-31T14:42:33 < karlp> looks some shitty undefined args for "smps_level" though
2021-03-31T14:42:58 < karlp> needs more doxygen linkage, and some actual example would be fucking nice of them
2021-03-31T14:43:21 < karlp> I wonder how they got that past me without a single built in struct to use
2021-03-31T14:43:21 < jpa-> zyp: chibios stack, it appears to have the correct settings for H7 to disable VBUS detection, and OTG_GCCFG = 0x00010000 and OTG_DCTL = 0x00000000  both in bootloader and in chibios
2021-03-31T14:43:37 < ventyl> karlp: unless there is no gotcha hidden behind undefined / uint8_t members
2021-03-31T14:43:40 < karlp> probably me trying to be nice and allow development, but then it never happens anywhere.
2021-03-31T14:43:47 < karlp> assume you have to specify everything.
2021-03-31T14:43:51 < karlp> you ~always do.
2021-03-31T14:44:05 < ventyl> i just need to feed fucking FDCAN some clock to make it running
2021-03-31T14:44:58 < karlp> rcc_set_peripheral_clk_sel or rcc_set_fdcan_clksel (they're the same internally)
2021-03-31T14:45:57 < ventyl> well, yes, but the options there are PLL, PLL and HSE. PLL needs to be configured because is off by default and HSE would require examination of datasheets on what is actuall clock speed provided externally
2021-03-31T14:46:45 < ventyl> G4 allowed usage of APB clock
2021-03-31T14:47:34 < karlp> hey, you want to play with the compðlicated parts, you get the complications.
2021-03-31T14:47:45 < karlp> h7 is a train wreck for api compat with anything else
2021-03-31T14:48:29 < ventyl> at least my creepy RTOS runs happily on it
2021-03-31T14:50:01 < ventyl> oh, it works!
2021-03-31T14:50:06 < drzacek> doesn't cubemx calculate this all on its own?
2021-03-31T14:50:17 < ventyl> does not receive anything, but at least I can reset it
2021-03-31T14:50:47 < ventyl> nope, because I am not using it
2021-03-31T14:51:49 < drzacek> you could just to get the config and copy the results to your cube-free project
2021-03-31T14:52:08 < ventyl> I doubt I can even run it on my machine
2021-03-31T15:15:00 < jpa-> zyp: hmm, looks like it is somehow related to HSI48; if i select 48MHz from HSE-driven PLL as clock source, it works, but with HSI48 it does not; MCO1 from HSI48 shows nice stable 48 MHz though
2021-03-31T15:15:41 < zyp> huh, didn't know there were parts with HSI48 and dwc_otg
2021-03-31T15:26:43 < jpa-> if i'm not reading things wrong, STM32H7 should be able to use OTG_FS with HSI48; it certainly works with the BOOT0 bootloader, as it works even on a board where I don't have HSE assembled
2021-03-31T15:29:03 < zyp> I mean, if you couldn't, I don't see why they would even have it :)
2021-03-31T15:32:33 < mouseghost> maybe you fucked up clock?
2021-03-31T15:32:43 < mouseghost> i mean, prescalers
2021-03-31T15:33:30 < jpa-> possible, but MCO1 gives nice 48 MHz, and i would assume that as long as the core receives *some* clock, it would set the pull-up; it seems for some reason it is not receiving any clock
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2021-03-31T16:18:17 < jpa-> zyp: turns out it was this "The VDD33USB supply level detector must be enabled through USB33DEN bit in PWR_CR3 register before using the USB transceivers."
2021-03-31T16:19:30 < jpa-> not sure how i messed up testing that i didn't notice it earlier, but i set that while testing the clocks earlier, to see if the USB supply was ok; and that bit is not reset by NRST, only by POR
2021-03-31T16:21:35 < zyp> ah
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2021-03-31T16:40:52 < jadew> did I post this before? https://youtu.be/TI_ZV-5WHi4?t=615
2021-03-31T16:41:15 < jadew> I remember someone gave up on microwave food in order to build one
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2021-03-31T16:42:11 < Laurenceb52> arggg MS Teams
2021-03-31T16:42:23 < Laurenceb52> >12 second outgoing audio lag
2021-03-31T16:42:46 < drzacek> jadew, nice
2021-03-31T16:45:21 < effractur> Laurenceb52: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/qos-in-teams
2021-03-31T16:47:09 < Laurenceb52> interesting thanks
2021-03-31T16:47:14 < Laurenceb52> but looks like windows only
2021-03-31T16:47:20  * Laurenceb52 is running lunix
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2021-03-31T16:57:12 < Steffanx> Using lunix, messing with PA. Complaining about oidio lag
2021-03-31T16:57:29 < Steffanx> What's new?
2021-03-31T17:02:36 < Laurenceb52> 11 seconds is something else
2021-03-31T17:02:45 < Laurenceb52> wonder where the audio is bing stored
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2021-03-31T17:06:54 < Laurenceb52> are the pink soundblaster style pc mic sockets always mono?
2021-03-31T17:09:39 < BrainDamage> no
2021-03-31T17:09:59 < BrainDamage> in fact they are often stereo
2021-03-31T17:10:08 < Laurenceb52> ok wtf
2021-03-31T17:10:21 < Laurenceb52> so they have stereo with VCC on the ring?
2021-03-31T17:10:48 < BrainDamage> not sure where vbias is applied
2021-03-31T17:10:54 < BrainDamage> if one channel or both
2021-03-31T17:10:58 < Laurenceb52> ok
2021-03-31T17:11:13 < Laurenceb52> hmm I should dismantle some sound cards
2021-03-31T17:11:41 < Laurenceb52> and read less perman00b arduino blogs about sound card interfacing
2021-03-31T17:13:02 < Laurenceb52> https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2014/06/30/pc-microphone-phantom-powering-improvements/
2021-03-31T17:16:23 < Laurenceb52> aha
2021-03-31T17:16:25 < Laurenceb52> https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/computer_microphone.php
2021-03-31T17:16:36 < Laurenceb52> >Newer mainboards with stereo microphone support will provide the bias voltage for both the tip and ring
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2021-03-31T17:35:31 < englishman> https://i.redd.it/hvkupdboo5h61.jpg
2021-03-31T17:40:50 < karlp> fucking 1000 car  car park filling up again.
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2021-03-31T18:10:19 < Laurenceb> arggg freaking Teams
2021-03-31T18:10:25 < Laurenceb> >no useful search results
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2021-03-31T20:06:04 < Laurenceb> hmm this looks quite unfixable
2021-03-31T20:06:28 < Laurenceb> looks like th elag comes in when connecting or disconnecting
2021-03-31T20:06:49 < Laurenceb> unplugging a usb audio adaptor after a call causes it to segfault
2021-03-31T20:09:05 < Laurenceb> lag is there on sound cards and usb
2021-03-31T20:27:43 < ventyl> Laurenceb: don't disconnect it then
2021-03-31T20:27:57 < ventyl> disconnection of USB headseat used to crash Jabber too
2021-03-31T20:30:51 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: pastebin "pactl list sink-inputs" during a call
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2021-03-31T21:14:52 < Ecco> Hi guys!
2021-03-31T21:15:01 < Ecco> I have a question regarding the OTP bytes on an F7
2021-03-31T21:15:11 < Ecco> Apprently, they act like fuses
2021-03-31T21:15:42 < Ecco> i.e. all the bits are set to 1 at the factory, and you can only move them to 0
2021-03-31T21:16:23 < Ecco> then on top of this you can lock them to prevent additional transitions to zero
2021-03-31T21:16:30 < Ecco> that's what I measured by doing some tests
2021-03-31T21:19:02 < effractur> no
2021-03-31T21:19:05 < effractur> well sortof
2021-03-31T21:19:06 < effractur> "Each OTP data block can be programmed until the value 0x00 is programmed in the corresponding OTP lock byte. The lock bytes must only contain 0x00 and 0xFF values, otherwise the OTP bytes might not be taken into account correctly."
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2021-03-31T22:26:45 < Ecco> Yes, I read that too
2021-03-31T22:27:07 < Ecco> But technically, when you "program" Flash, aren't you just turning 1s into 0s?
2021-03-31T22:27:15 < Ecco> Otherwise it's called clearing?
2021-03-31T22:27:23 < Ecco> or erasing
2021-03-31T22:31:14 < Ecco> And the datasheet says "The OTP data and lock blocks cannot be erased."
2021-03-31T22:31:21 < Ecco> so, that would kind of fit, right?
2021-03-31T22:34:28 < Ecco> It says so in the refman actually "Successive write operations are possible without the need of an erase operation when changing bits from ‘1’ to ‘0’. Writing ‘1’ requires a Flash memory erase operation."
2021-03-31T22:38:27 < mawk> yes that's how this type of flash works
2021-03-31T22:52:05 < Ecco> yeah, so that's also how the OTP work, right?
2021-03-31T22:52:21 < Ecco> Since it cannot be erased, if you write a 0, then the 0 is in here forever
2021-03-31T22:52:25 < Ecco> no matter the lock
2021-03-31T22:52:35 < Ecco> and if there's a lock, then you just can't write any additional zeroes
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2021-03-31T23:05:40 < englishman> you know what the acronym OTP stands for right :)
2021-03-31T23:06:00 < aandrew> One Tiny Penis
2021-03-31T23:06:53 < englishman> OTP is done that way to allow you to 'erase' the data by writing all 0s. so it's one time programmable, one time erasable, until the lock bits are set
2021-03-31T23:09:18 < Ecco> what do you mean "one time programmable, one time erasable"?
2021-03-31T23:09:44 < Ecco> technically it's very much an array of fuses, right?
2021-03-31T23:09:48 < Ecco> Like you can blow each of them
2021-03-31T23:09:50 < Ecco> and… that's it
2021-03-31T23:10:32 < Ecco> and on top of that, there's a "global" lock, which can prevent fuses from being blown
2021-03-31T23:10:36 < Ecco> right?
2021-03-31T23:14:35 < englishman> yeah
2021-03-31T23:15:26 < englishman> by 'program' i mean you can put your data in
2021-03-31T23:15:33 < englishman> then 'erase' it by writing all zeroes
2021-03-31T23:19:41 < Ecco> ohhh
2021-03-31T23:19:44 < Ecco> yeah ok :)
2021-03-31T23:20:01 < Ecco> it's actually pretty ool
2021-03-31T23:20:02 < Ecco> cool
2021-03-31T23:20:23 < Ecco> for some reason, initially I thought it was "write whatever you want, as many times as you want. And then you can lock it once."
2021-03-31T23:20:28 < Ecco> but it's much cooler than that
2021-03-31T23:21:18 < Ecco> thanks!
2021-03-31T23:21:57 < englishman> thats the OT in OTP :)
2021-03-31T23:22:24 < englishman> i understand the confusion
2021-03-31T23:23:55 < zyp> remember that ordinary flash also only lets you write zeroes
2021-03-31T23:24:31 < zyp> write goes 1 -> 0 and erase goes 0 -> 1, and you can only erase whole pages at a time
2021-03-31T23:25:16 < zyp> so the OTP region is probably just a flash page with erase disabled
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2021-03-31T23:49:20 < mawk> and eeprom is fake flash?
2021-03-31T23:49:23 < mawk> sometimes
2021-03-31T23:49:41 < mawk> or rather fake eeprom is actually flash
2021-03-31T23:59:11 < Laurenceb> fuck mint
2021-03-31T23:59:28 < Laurenceb> backlight controller at 100% cou
2021-03-31T23:59:33 < Laurenceb> *cpu
--- Log closed Thu Apr 01 00:00:21 2021