--- Log opened Thu Apr 01 00:00:21 2021
--- Day changed Thu Apr 01 2021
2021-04-01T00:00:21 < Steffanx> Still didn't give up.. good job Laurenceb 
2021-04-01T00:15:56 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: still waiting for that commmand output btw
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2021-04-01T00:25:27 < Laurenceb> oh thanks for the help
2021-04-01T00:25:36 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna try chrome webapp
2021-04-01T00:25:41 < Laurenceb> once I have some food
2021-04-01T00:25:53  * Laurenceb has been replacing train cabling for hours
2021-04-01T00:26:17 < Laurenceb> hyperloop crew going rage mode over modbus and ethernet
2021-04-01T00:29:14 < ventyl> do they want wifi everywhere?
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2021-04-01T00:58:43 < aandrew> modbus *and* ethernet? why?
2021-04-01T00:58:49 < aandrew> Modbus/tcp is a thing
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2021-04-01T02:48:04 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-04-01T03:30:36 < karlp> aandrew: don't ask, he's still on this weird world of "there's rs485 already laid, so I'm going to magically lay ethernet inside modbus rtu framing...."and it's just lolrence all the wya down...
2021-04-01T03:35:11 < aandrew> what. the. fuck.
2021-04-01T03:35:24 < aandrew> that's completely fucking backward
2021-04-01T03:35:42 < aandrew> although I guess rs485 has longer runs than ethernet, but it's a gazillion times slower
2021-04-01T03:36:00 < karlp> yeah,it's been hard to work out what he's really doing....
2021-04-01T03:36:22 < karlp> we've already said if you want ethernet, just use ethernet and drop rs485...
2021-04-01T03:38:08 < aandrew> hell you could even put 10bt on those rs485 lines and get better results I bet
2021-04-01T03:38:36 < aandrew> although that would be point to point, where rs485 or bus-lvds would do it
2021-04-01T03:39:56 < karlp> this evening's fun: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/S3Lq9zwztx94SRJ
2021-04-01T03:40:21 < karlp> if ke keeps the rs485 and uses bacnet ms/tp he gets  proper networking too...
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2021-04-01T03:42:16 < karlp> https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/nxZYnigAAHDTR7B night time glow...
2021-04-01T03:42:32 < karlp> not as friendly today.... valley's filling up.
2021-04-01T03:42:54 < karlp> ~2 weeks or so estimated til it overflows out into the next one, and we get some pretty flows again.
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2021-04-01T04:59:08 < aandrew> hah, love aliexpress' optimistic emails
2021-04-01T04:59:16 < aandrew> EXPECT TO SEE YOUR PACKAGE SOON
2021-04-01T04:59:20 < aandrew> bullshit, it own't be here for 6 weeks
2021-04-01T05:06:20 < specing> time is relative
2021-04-01T05:52:10 < t4nk_freenode> relatives are a waste of time
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2021-04-01T07:04:23 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-01T07:04:26 < aandrew> drives me crazy
2021-04-01T07:04:37 < aandrew> I feel there should be a way to hold them to account
2021-04-01T07:04:53 < aandrew> if you paid a premium for 5 day turn and they can't deliver, the premium should be waived
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2021-04-01T07:37:37 < aandrew> hahahaha
2021-04-01T07:38:01 < aandrew> was that the premium for a 5 day rush? $260?
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2021-04-01T10:09:20 < steve_> Hello.  Using GDB load command with intel hex files doesn't seem to work, is it supposed to work?  or only with elfs?
2021-04-01T10:09:53 < jpa-> i think it directly works only with elfs
2021-04-01T10:10:35 < jpa-> you can do     restore foo.hex 0 0 0
2021-04-01T10:10:43 < steve_> strangely it seems to work with some .hex's and not others.  no visible difference in them.
2021-04-01T10:10:53 < steve_> oh cool, trying that
2021-04-01T10:15:34 < steve_> eh same thing.  whatever.  should be using elfs anyway
2021-04-01T10:44:21 < ventyl> obtaining elf is additional step which will remove any useful debugging info
2021-04-01T10:44:28 < ventyl> no reason doing so
2021-04-01T10:45:19 < jpa-> you mean, obtaining hex
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2021-04-01T10:58:03 < steve_> hex is good as a release binary
2021-04-01T10:59:02 < ventyl> right, obtaining hex
2021-04-01T10:59:12 < ventyl> https://kosmonautix.cz/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Exx26SbU8AYCU63.jpg
2021-04-01T10:59:41 < ventyl> that quad looks like it received some minor styling upgrade from that nearby piece of SN11
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2021-04-01T12:01:12 < steve_> actually now I think gdb does work with .hex, I had a line where the data was shorter than the specified length.  but getting other odd behavior with gdb and openocd, flash writes clobbering beyond 1 page boundaries
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2021-04-01T12:53:31 < jpa-> steve_: remember that erase block may be larger than 1 page
2021-04-01T12:57:10 < steve_> thanks that's what I meant.  4 pages in a block, but I space out my flash data structs along those erase boundaries and they get clobbered I believe.  just trying to erase/write 1 page.  may have to keep sanity checking
2021-04-01T13:00:09 < jpa-> openocd does do some guessing on how much to erase, sometimes the output shows e.g. "Warn : Adding extra erase range, 0x0800da60 .. 0x0801ffff"
2021-04-01T13:00:25 < jpa-> openocd -d 3   should show more debug info
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2021-04-01T14:41:09 < drzacek> hello there, again
2021-04-01T14:42:56 < drzacek> so I'm looking at the expansion boards for the nucleos. The p-nucleo-wb55 is giving me BL/BLE, but it actually has separate STM32WB chip there? So counter-productive when I want to use the L4 low power board. So instead I should go for the X-NUCLEO-BNRG2A1, right?
2021-04-01T14:43:16 < drzacek> haven't seen other expansion with bluetooth5
2021-04-01T14:43:40 < zyp> like I said yesterday, the wb is a l4 with built-in radio
2021-04-01T14:44:04 < zyp> so yeah, it'd be a standalone solution with the same capability as l4+external radio
2021-04-01T14:45:28 < zyp> and yeah, if you just want a radio to add, that bluenrg thing is probably gonna work
2021-04-01T14:45:48 < drzacek> well my plan is to get various modules for the nucleo board, wifi, ble, whatelse
2021-04-01T14:46:06 < zyp> why?
2021-04-01T14:46:15 < drzacek> and switch them, while the base thing stays the same, so I'd rather go after the regular L4 instead of wb
2021-04-01T14:46:26 < drzacek> to check which one works the best
2021-04-01T14:46:32 < drzacek> for my use case
2021-04-01T14:47:00 < zyp> uh, wouldn't the use case itself define whether you want ble or wifi?
2021-04-01T14:47:15 < drzacek> the use case defines 5G mobile communication
2021-04-01T14:47:24 < drzacek> but that hardware is not existent yet
2021-04-01T14:47:55 < zyp> why 5G?
2021-04-01T14:49:45 < effractur> so you can to cloud ai edge computing
2021-04-01T14:49:46 < zyp> it's still not clear to me exactly where the distinction between 4G and 5G goes and why you'd want 5G in particular, apart from I guess it's supposed to be faster
2021-04-01T14:50:29 < zyp> for small device cellular connectivity in general I'd look at nrf9160
2021-04-01T14:51:28 < drzacek> something like this https://www.quectel.com/product/5g-rg500q-ea/
2021-04-01T14:51:39 < drzacek> zyp, latencies
2021-04-01T14:52:56 < zyp> yeah?
2021-04-01T15:05:00 < qyx> uh 5g?
2021-04-01T15:18:01 < drzacek> yes
2021-04-01T15:19:07 < qyx> if you plan to use 5g, better design your pcb with L6
2021-04-01T15:29:52 < drzacek> why
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2021-04-01T15:52:54 < englishman> looks like Digikey is dropping all stm32 from their catalogue
2021-04-01T15:52:59 < englishman> and putting msp430 as recommended replacements
2021-04-01T15:53:25 < qyx> are they serious
2021-04-01T15:57:11 < drzacek> they're like totally not compatible
2021-04-01T15:57:22 < drzacek> doesn't ti have some cccp-something 32bit chips?
2021-04-01T15:57:49 < drzacek> are there no wifi expansion boards for nucleos anymore? On farnell it says thate they are all obsolete and no longer made 
2021-04-01T15:58:48 < englishman> i think the other major distributors are just lagging behind a bit
2021-04-01T15:58:53 < englishman> in discontinuing stm32
2021-04-01T15:59:01 < englishman> msp430 will be the only way forward
2021-04-01T15:59:48 < drzacek> is stm32 getting cancelled?
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2021-04-01T16:01:00 < effractur> stm32 has a lot of production issues
2021-04-01T16:01:09 < effractur> so they are hard / alsmost impossible to get
2021-04-01T16:02:48 < drzacek> well they say "not available", or "delivery in 40 weeks", but for their wifi modules they say that those are no longer being produced
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2021-04-01T16:03:39 < effractur> well all wifi stuff is esp anyway :P
2021-04-01T16:03:44 < effractur> but getting a random sdio 
2021-04-01T16:04:45 < qyx> st has no wifi anymore
2021-04-01T16:04:54 < qyx> go esp32
2021-04-01T16:05:01 < drzacek> k
2021-04-01T16:05:02 < qyx> or esp8266 over sdio
2021-04-01T16:05:11 < qyx> or ublox
2021-04-01T16:05:23 < drzacek> soo arduino wifi shield? I think it has esp on it
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2021-04-01T16:06:04 < effractur> no that one has a HDG204 
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2021-04-01T16:07:26 < effractur> but like
2021-04-01T16:07:34 < effractur> all wifi chips als have a arm core or some other core onboard
2021-04-01T16:07:46 < effractur> so its a bit waistfull to add an second core if you don't need it
2021-04-01T16:08:43 < zyp> on the other hand, it's nice not having to share a cpu core with a wifi stack blob
2021-04-01T16:09:21 < effractur> well that is why some o them have 2 cores
2021-04-01T16:09:25 < effractur> but yes
2021-04-01T16:09:41 < englishman> I can see esp32 being replaced by msp430w wifi version. digikey will probably stop carrying them too
2021-04-01T16:13:20 < drzacek> whats with the push for msp thingies
2021-04-01T16:14:29 < englishman> it'll be the only chip in stock, in a couple months
2021-04-01T16:14:30 < effractur> englishman: did they annouch that then?
2021-04-01T16:14:43 < effractur> i cant seem to find a datasheet
2021-04-01T16:15:07 < effractur> but yes ESP32 is at tsmc
2021-04-01T16:15:10 < effractur> so tthat will be well
2021-04-01T16:15:11 < effractur> gone
2021-04-01T16:15:29 < effractur> or they need to port it to a differnt fab
2021-04-01T16:17:45 < fenugrec> I accidentally a filter while messing with different constants for a type of "moving average", and came up with something that I don't know how to analyze but seems to be some kind of... recursive lowpass filter ? it goes like y{n} = y{n-1} * k/(k+1) + x{n}. x being the new sample, and y the output. It converges to y= (k+1)*x so I accidentally have some gain in there too
2021-04-01T16:19:53 < karlp> ignore the obvious stockholm resident and their msp430 "love"
2021-04-01T16:19:54 < fenugrec> Suppose I want to find out the response of this filter, how would I proceed ?
2021-04-01T16:20:15 < karlp> is it just an iir?
2021-04-01T16:20:29 < fenugrec> no idea... maybe ?
2021-04-01T16:20:35 < fenugrec> babby's first accidental dsp
2021-04-01T16:21:17 < englishman> embrace the future karl
2021-04-01T16:21:54 < fenugrec> plot twist, the msp430xxxRV is actually a risc-v core
2021-04-01T16:28:07 < Laurenceb> lol FSB passed all the IP addresses of Iron March users to local police forces
2021-04-01T16:28:17 < Laurenceb> thats why all the autists are getting arrested
2021-04-01T16:28:32 < Laurenceb> the absolute madman Putin
2021-04-01T16:28:39 < drzacek> risc-v ftw!
2021-04-01T16:29:53 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2021-04-01T16:30:02  * Laurenceb clicked a link to Iron March once
2021-04-01T16:30:15 < Laurenceb> guess I'll see you in a few years when I get out of jail
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2021-04-01T16:39:54 < drzacek> so regular ethernet shield for arduino should work too with nucleo, right?
2021-04-01T16:47:06 < englishman> ok so all that shit earlier about msp430 was april fool's haha suckers.
2021-04-01T16:47:22 < englishman> i was going to change the topic to say this channel has moved to ##msp430 and have a topic in that chan saying haha suckers
2021-04-01T16:47:37 < englishman> but my TI guy just emailed me and said i should buy parts for next 52 weeks
2021-04-01T16:47:40 < englishman> so it's not funny anymore
2021-04-01T16:55:09 < fenugrec> hahaha
2021-04-01T16:55:24 < fenugrec> you'll be buying msp430 for the next few decades anyway
2021-04-01T16:58:31 < qyx> lol
2021-04-01T17:00:33 < BrainDamage> until TI runs out of stock / pays back investment
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2021-04-01T17:05:07 < fenugrec> @karl : yes, it was just an iir
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2021-04-01T17:19:14 < drzacek> what's the difference between L452RE and L452RE-P? can't seem to find any
2021-04-01T17:35:12 < jpa-> drzacek: the datasheet specifies the difference as "external smps"
2021-04-01T17:36:14 < jpa-> apparently for generating the 1.2V core voltage with smps chip, instead of the internal linear regulator
2021-04-01T17:41:12 < drzacek> apparently true, tho the websites where I compared them had external smps in description on both of them
2021-04-01T17:41:47 < drzacek> so they are same stuff, the -p got something more/better, AND micro-USB instead of mini, so reason enough for me to choose -P version
2021-04-01T17:49:03 < jpa-> well, for most cases i would go without the -P unless you plan to have external SMPS on your final system also
2021-04-01T17:49:50 < jpa-> though apparently it is switchable with jumpers so i guess -P is better
2021-04-01T17:52:22 < jpa-> i wonder if those level shifters work for debugging external 1.8V boards also
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2021-04-01T19:27:24 < qyx> dr-P is smps
2021-04-01T19:27:33 < qyx> regardless of what datasheet says
2021-04-01T19:28:12 < qyx> you nhave to check the partno table or wherever it is noted
2021-04-01T19:28:19 < qyx> meh he left
2021-04-01T19:55:27 < englishman> Laurenceb: https://www.grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.de/latest-emdrive-tests-at-dresden-university-shows-impossible-engine-does-not-develop-any-thrust20210321/
2021-04-01T19:55:42 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-01T19:55:57 < Laurenceb> still worried I might have once clicked linkz to iron march tbh
2021-04-01T19:56:06 < Laurenceb> have to be careful what u click on I guess
2021-04-01T19:56:54 < Laurenceb> >site written like 1970s soviet propaganda was an ip harvesting operation
2021-04-01T19:57:00 < Laurenceb> who could have guessed it
2021-04-01T19:57:27 < Laurenceb> wonder when emdrivers will be imprisoned for hate crime against sanity
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2021-04-01T20:10:27 < qyx> heh
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2021-04-01T20:41:23 < Steffanx> was esp32 april fools too, englishman ?
2021-04-01T20:41:48 < englishman> esp32 fooled only you
2021-04-01T20:41:55 < qyx> does esp32 support 802.11s?
2021-04-01T20:42:35 < englishman> it has wifi
2021-04-01T20:42:39 < englishman> and Bluetooth
2021-04-01T20:43:00 < effractur> they have there own mesh thingy
2021-04-01T20:43:02 < englishman> so when you go down the list of features asked for my the client
2021-04-01T20:43:07 < englishman> you can tick the wifi box
2021-04-01T20:43:09 < effractur> but it does not even implement proper 802.11 anyway
2021-04-01T20:43:11 < englishman> and the Bluetooth box
2021-04-01T20:43:21 < englishman> then collect your paycheque and go home
2021-04-01T20:43:47 < effractur> does not lissen to minimum beacon rates etc
2021-04-01T20:43:49 < effractur> its horrible
2021-04-01T20:44:23 < qyx> their mesh thingy which is actually a tree?
2021-04-01T20:44:34 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.org/
2021-04-01T20:44:49 < englishman> wtf
2021-04-01T20:44:51 < englishman> oh no
2021-04-01T20:45:01 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.pro/
2021-04-01T20:45:29 < effractur> qyx: yes that thing
2021-04-01T20:45:50 < qyx> so which stm32 should I choose for 802.11ac
2021-04-01T20:45:52 < qyx> are there any?
2021-04-01T20:45:58 < qyx> I also want 5G
2021-04-01T20:46:13 < qyx> and some polyphase 10 kW step-up converter support
2021-04-01T20:46:15 < qyx> is it possible?
2021-04-01T20:46:34 < qyx> can I do it with H7?
2021-04-01T20:46:44 < qyx> is there anyone who did it I may talk to?
2021-04-01T20:47:25 < qyx> oh there is no H7 in PDIP
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2021-04-01T21:00:56 < Steffanx> Still no proper vector imagine englishman ?
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2021-04-01T22:00:13 < qyx> you are not being helpful
2021-04-01T22:03:41 < Steffanx> April fools
2021-04-01T22:06:16 < mawk> lol
2021-04-01T22:06:49 < mawk> if you hammer a bit a esp32 it will probably turn into a stm32 qyx 
2021-04-01T22:06:54 < mawk> why would it both end with 32 otherwise
2021-04-01T22:07:08 < qyx> tru dat
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 02 2021
2021-04-02T00:03:19 < Steffanx> mawk: !!!!
2021-04-02T00:31:14 < englishman> fenugrec: megagym has almost as many cases as PEI
2021-04-02T01:08:08 < karlp> we're no longer green :(
2021-04-02T01:16:55 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-04-02T01:19:10 < mawk> boooh
2021-04-02T01:19:12 < englishman> what does that mean?
2021-04-02T01:30:34 < fenugrec> englishman, haha didn't they reopen like X days ago (X < 10 or something)
2021-04-02T01:33:02 < englishman> yep.
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2021-04-02T01:35:05 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-04-02T01:35:14 < kakium69> hello lurence
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2021-04-02T07:06:27 < machinehum> Can I switch around all the data/address pins on ddr3?
2021-04-02T07:06:45 < machinehum> To make the routing easier
2021-04-02T07:18:11 < aandrew> there are rules for it
2021-04-02T07:18:41 < aandrew> I *think* you can swap anything in the same byte enable group, but of course you'll check this before running it
2021-04-02T07:19:42 < aandrew> you can find azonenberg on freenode he's usually in ##fpga) - he's done this a few times
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2021-04-02T08:42:10 < machinehum> PaulFertser: congrats on the release
2021-04-02T08:51:23 < jpa-> woo, new openocd, cool!
2021-04-02T09:11:04 < Steffanx> I lolled. First good joke of April fools
2021-04-02T09:27:01 < zyp> machinehum, you can swap entire byte lanes and you can reorder the dq lines within a byte lane, but otherwise no
2021-04-02T09:27:53 < zyp> address lines are also used to send commands, so they can't get reordered
2021-04-02T09:31:17 < machinehum> zyp: tyty, azonenberg pretty much told me the same thing in ##fpga
2021-04-02T09:32:29 < machinehum> This DDR3 thing is a cunt https://imgur.com/a/dJ3lg5e
2021-04-02T09:33:09 < zyp> where are you leaving room for length matching? :)
2021-04-02T09:33:43 < machinehum> Not doing it, someone one the internet once said it should be fine don't worry about it
2021-04-02T09:34:03 < machinehum> I figure the traces are so short
2021-04-02T09:34:13 < zyp> haha, for ddr3?
2021-04-02T09:34:19 < machinehum> Yeah actually
2021-04-02T09:34:26 < zyp> what's the controller here? how fast will it be running?
2021-04-02T09:34:56 < machinehum> Allwinner A33, 1.2Ghz
2021-04-02T09:35:02 < machinehum> https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/
2021-04-02T09:35:04 < zyp> yeah, good luck with that
2021-04-02T09:38:58 < machinehum> Fine I'll do it
2021-04-02T09:39:48 < zyp> there's rules for what needs to be matched to what too
2021-04-02T09:40:49 < zyp> each byte lane needs to be fairly strictly matched to itself, but is fairly loose wrt the other signals
2021-04-02T09:45:19 < machinehum> Thanks
2021-04-02T09:45:37 < machinehum> It starting to look like if I move the ram rather away from the controller this becomes easier
2021-04-02T09:46:23 < zyp> well, duh
2021-04-02T09:48:40 < machinehum> Very duh
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2021-04-02T10:19:42 < qyx> interesting, lpddr3 has more strict rules for reordering
2021-04-02T10:20:03 < qyx> you can't touch lane 0
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2021-04-02T10:39:09 < zyp> no?
2021-04-02T10:39:19 < zyp> what makes lane 0 special?
2021-04-02T10:39:56 < zyp> I mean, if you use 8-bit wide chips, each chip will get one lane and neither would know who got lane 0
2021-04-02T10:47:08 < qyx> I would say some sort of commands maybe
2021-04-02T10:52:45 < qyx> zyp: AN5122 section 4.1 feom ST
2021-04-02T10:52:57 < qyx> for some reason no copypaste
2021-04-02T10:53:50 < qyx> I remember micron mentioned that too in its ddr/lpddr guidelines but I can't find it at the moment
2021-04-02T11:05:38 < zyp> that's LPDDR, which I believe shares signals more than normal DDR
2021-04-02T11:08:00 < qyx> yeah I said lpddr3 :)
2021-04-02T11:08:10 < zyp> ah, my bad
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2021-04-02T12:45:26 < zyp> what's the smallest footprint full bridge rectifier I can get? nominal 12V, idk what current but let's say 1A
2021-04-02T12:49:20 < qyx> I am using some in soic4-6 or how is that called
2021-04-02T12:49:29 < qyx> smd pdip4
2021-04-02T12:49:46 < qyx> but those common rectifiers have Vf of about 1 V
2021-04-02T12:50:25 < zyp> that's not a major problem, I can in theory increase the voltage to compensate
2021-04-02T12:50:38 < qyx> 4x pmeg3030 are probably smaller
2021-04-02T12:51:54 < qyx> not 3030, the other ones in the "smaller SOD"
2021-04-02T12:53:42 < zyp> 3x3 DFN: https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/nsr1030qmu-d.pdf
2021-04-02T12:54:53 < qyx> looks good
2021-04-02T12:55:44 < qyx> what are you inovating
2021-04-02T12:58:12 < zyp> nothing much, just throwing around some ideas for a possible future project
2021-04-02T13:23:30 < qyx> TIL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-current_diode
2021-04-02T13:36:50 < jadew> lmfao, stackoverflow figured out how to monetize their business: "STOP! You have two (2) free copy/pastes remaining."
2021-04-02T13:41:13 < zyp> it's not april 1st anymore
2021-04-02T13:42:14 < jadew> ah!
2021-04-02T13:42:24 < jadew> I still fell for it tho
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2021-04-02T14:37:02 < fenugrec> openocd "ARM Cortex-M fast PC sampling support for profiling" sounds interesting
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2021-04-02T14:54:17 < Laurenceb> sup trolls
2021-04-02T14:54:25  * Laurenceb is failing at physics
2021-04-02T14:54:47 < Laurenceb> can anyone explain what the determining factor is in signal transformer saturation?
2021-04-02T14:54:57 < Laurenceb> current? voltage? power transfer?
2021-04-02T14:56:04 < BrainDamage> current, core saturates which means that B and H are not linear with eachother anymore
2021-04-02T14:56:04 < Laurenceb> from first principles aiui the internal field isnt a neat function of current through the primary coil, accept for maybe in some regions of the core where there are weird edge effects right?
2021-04-02T14:56:26 < Laurenceb> shouldnt it be voltage drop / frequency ?
2021-04-02T14:56:45 < Laurenceb> as that tells you the actual linked flux through the primary coil?
2021-04-02T14:57:03 < BrainDamage> current automatically gives you linked flux
2021-04-02T14:57:30 < BrainDamage> but yes, saturation is a function of frequency
2021-04-02T14:57:31 < Laurenceb> but there is the secondary coil current
2021-04-02T14:57:47 < BrainDamage> because there's a dissipative component
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2021-04-02T14:58:21 < BrainDamage> as in, the magnetic permeability is not a real number, but a complex one
2021-04-02T14:58:33 < Laurenceb> lets say the secondary is a superconducting ring
2021-04-02T14:58:40 < Laurenceb> then there is no coupled flux
2021-04-02T14:58:42 < BrainDamage> with imaginary part being dissipattive
2021-04-02T14:58:48 < Laurenceb> so it clealy has an effect
2021-04-02T14:59:00 < BrainDamage> true
2021-04-02T14:59:18 < Laurenceb> but the voltage drop in the primary can only be due to coupled flux
2021-04-02T14:59:27 < Laurenceb> apart from DC resistance obviously
2021-04-02T14:59:46 < Laurenceb> so its got to be voltage/frequency ?
2021-04-02T15:00:14 < Laurenceb> maybe with a minor current term for edge effects and stuff
2021-04-02T15:00:52 < BrainDamage> along the dc resistance you have another component from the core dissipation
2021-04-02T15:01:03 < BrainDamage> which is a function of freq
2021-04-02T15:01:12 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-02T15:01:13 < BrainDamage> above 10MHz or so, you cannot ignore it
2021-04-02T15:01:44 < Laurenceb> yeah this is low kHz application
2021-04-02T15:02:32 < Laurenceb> https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/1539.pdf
2021-04-02T15:02:48 < Laurenceb> this would explain why they give the saturation voltage at low frequency
2021-04-02T15:10:52 < BrainDamage> they are also specifying saturation in terms of output, not input
2021-04-02T15:11:29 < BrainDamage> I guess because that's what people care more abou
2021-04-02T15:38:37 < Laurenceb> the 7401 looks a bit nicer
2021-04-02T15:38:51 < Laurenceb> these things are ukp55 each O_o
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2021-04-02T17:16:40 < Laurenceb> damn these transformers are pricey
2021-04-02T17:16:53 < Laurenceb> ukp90 each for some of this shit
2021-04-02T17:17:14 < Laurenceb> the OEP Z21808C looks nice for data inputs
2021-04-02T17:17:24 < Laurenceb> cheap and in stock at multiple places
2021-04-02T17:19:02 < Laurenceb> oooh
2021-04-02T17:19:04 < Laurenceb> https://www.sowter.co.uk/
2021-04-02T17:19:11 < Laurenceb> this looks audiophillic
2021-04-02T17:19:40 < Laurenceb> pro shit https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/1990.php
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2021-04-02T18:47:28 < qyx> have you ever seen a waterproof coax connector similar to mmcx?
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2021-04-02T20:22:26 < Laurenceb> is it possible to send s/pdif over 3.5mm jacks?
2021-04-02T20:23:03 < qyx> there are even FO 3.5 jacks
2021-04-02T20:23:04 < zyp> why wouldn't it be?
2021-04-02T20:23:06 < qyx> for spdig
2021-04-02T20:23:09 < zyp> yeah
2021-04-02T20:23:20 < zyp> I believe pretty much all macbooks have them
2021-04-02T20:23:21 < Laurenceb> I've got a usb audio device which claims to have s/pdif support but theres no socket
2021-04-02T20:23:24 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-04-02T20:23:26 < qyx> othewrise it is a normal 75 ohm coax
2021-04-02T20:23:48 < Laurenceb> so it just sends it through the tip? ring?
2021-04-02T20:23:50 < qyx> yeah check if it is glowing red if you enable it
2021-04-02T20:23:59 < Laurenceb> oh optical at the end?
2021-04-02T20:24:05 < qyx> yes on the tip
2021-04-02T20:24:33 < Laurenceb> so its toslink ?
2021-04-02T20:24:58 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe I should use toslink on hyperloop
2021-04-02T20:25:07 < zyp> well, toslink is optical spdif
2021-04-02T20:25:32 < Laurenceb> yeah, but is there electrical s/pdif put onto the 3.5mm jack tip?
2021-04-02T20:25:41 < Laurenceb> or is that never done?
2021-04-02T20:25:47 < qyx> https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HT1XzlmFKJaXXagOFbXr/200812439/HT1XzlmFKJaXXagOFbXr.jpg_.webp
2021-04-02T20:25:56 < zyp> I'm not sure I've seen it, but why not
2021-04-02T20:26:18 < Laurenceb> hmm I'll chop open the casing to see whats going on
2021-04-02T20:26:20 < zyp> Laurenceb, which device anyway?
2021-04-02T20:26:32 < englishman> oh that's what that adapter is for
2021-04-02T20:26:40 < Laurenceb> plugable usb audio, cheap off amazon
2021-04-02T20:26:46 < zyp> link?
2021-04-02T20:27:11 < Laurenceb> i sec
2021-04-02T20:27:20 < zyp> if it's china trash, it's not weird if it's advertising more than you get
2021-04-02T20:27:31 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-04-02T20:27:56 < Laurenceb> usb descriptors look legit and it appears to do something 
2021-04-02T20:29:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-Speaker-Headphone-Microphone-External-Compatible/dp/B00NMXY2MO
2021-04-02T20:29:59 < zyp> I don't see anything about spdif
2021-04-02T20:30:12 < zyp> doubt it has anything of the sort
2021-04-02T20:30:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-02T20:30:40 < Laurenceb> I'll crack open the case to see whats inside
2021-04-02T20:30:53 < zyp> probably some generic usb-audio chip
2021-04-02T20:32:02 < englishman> where do you see the claim for spdif
2021-04-02T20:32:29 < Laurenceb> englishman: on the usb descriptors
2021-04-02T20:32:35 < englishman> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/USB_SSS1629A5_C96357.html
2021-04-02T20:32:43 < Laurenceb> and on lunix it pops up as spdif device
2021-04-02T20:33:02 < Laurenceb> hmm no optical shit in the ends of the jacks
2021-04-02T20:33:31 < qyx> how do you know
2021-04-02T20:34:02 < qyx> https://www.ccfloffer.com/bookpic/01/3.5mm-8-pin-with-optical-audio-jack.jpg
2021-04-02T20:34:10 < qyx> usually it looks like a normal socket
2021-04-02T20:34:41 < Laurenceb> qyx: I'm looking at the pcb
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2021-04-02T20:37:50 < t4nk_freenode> $3.29!
2021-04-02T20:37:52 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-04-02T20:38:10 < t4nk_freenode> buy local, I guess ... nice chinese characters btw
2021-04-02T20:42:10 < qyx> https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/133021/headphones-jack-not-pluggable-into-macbook-pro-retina-socket
2021-04-02T20:42:13 < qyx> haha :D
2021-04-02T20:44:04 < effractur> yea some dust
2021-04-02T20:44:07 < effractur> they are quite useless
2021-04-02T20:44:15 < effractur> but almost nobody makes the combo ports anyway
2021-04-02T21:21:27 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-04-02T22:14:27 < Steffanx> even my 2010 macbook pro had this i recall
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2021-04-02T22:24:42 < mawk> >I did this the old fashioned way -- took my 3.5mm connector and hammered it in, using a literal hammer. After doing so, some white dust came out of the port (which I vacuumed up). I'm presuming something was stuck in there? Either way, everything is working now, so +1 for the brute force solution here (at least for me).
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2021-04-02T23:20:23 < zyp> how was it, did the entire fusion 360 free plan disappear, or was it just crippled?
2021-04-02T23:20:51 < zyp> ah, found it, just crippled
2021-04-02T23:23:44 < qyx>  Factory Lead Time:
2021-04-02T23:23:45 < qyx> 24 Weeks 
2021-04-02T23:23:52 < qyx> for KSZ8091RNA
2021-04-02T23:24:23 < qyx> pros, what will we do in the future if all parts are gone?
2021-04-02T23:25:20 < effractur> stockpile
2021-04-02T23:25:23 < effractur> and resell for profit
2021-04-02T23:25:24 < qyx> I was about to make a joke with W5500
2021-04-02T23:25:37 < qyx> but 20 Weeks too
2021-04-02T23:26:36 < qyx> at least esp32 is in stock
2021-04-02T23:27:35 < englishman> just do everything in software
2021-04-02T23:27:39 < englishman> on esp32
2021-04-02T23:27:56 < qyx>  18.979 Expected 7/19/2021 for ksz8081rna :(
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2021-04-02T23:29:13 < mawk> nobody needs hardware anymore nowadays anyway
2021-04-02T23:29:16 < mawk> we all use the CLOUD now
2021-04-02T23:29:38 < englishman> time to tape out a esp32 and 2n3904 based gphy
2021-04-02T23:31:41 < fenugrec> don't diss the 3904
2021-04-02T23:32:56 < englishman> who would diss 3904
2021-04-02T23:33:07 < qyx> I always used bc546
2021-04-02T23:33:18 < fenugrec> used one to replace a fancy GHz transistor in the vertical amp of a scope, once
2021-04-02T23:35:51 < qyx> oh tme has some
2021-04-02T23:36:05  * qyx buying for himself
2021-04-02T23:36:23 < mawk> I'm sure you never do anything of the parts you buy like that
2021-04-02T23:36:28 < mawk> it's like women buying jewels
2021-04-02T23:36:32 < mawk> it stays in a closet
2021-04-02T23:36:36 < mawk> you're a woman qyx face it
2021-04-02T23:36:52 < fenugrec> 16f84 is also in stock
2021-04-02T23:37:07 < fenugrec> stm16f84 ofc
2021-04-02T23:37:54 < Steffanx> I read pic
2021-04-02T23:38:04 < Steffanx> Don't fool me mate
2021-04-02T23:38:43 < mawk> where's that "mate" coming from Steffanx 
2021-04-02T23:38:47 < mawk> are you hanging out with aussies lately?
2021-04-02T23:39:08 < englishman> stm16?
2021-04-02T23:39:13 < englishman> isn't that msp430?
2021-04-02T23:39:16 < Steffanx> A left over from talking with Stvn/jly/crt, mawk
2021-04-02T23:39:22 < Steffanx> But he died
2021-04-02T23:39:29 < mawk> liar
2021-04-02T23:39:31 < mawk> he's alive
2021-04-02T23:39:36 < Steffanx> Not for me
2021-04-02T23:39:39 < mawk> why
2021-04-02T23:39:42 < mawk> what did he do
2021-04-02T23:39:47 < mawk> he said one too many "nigger" ?
2021-04-02T23:39:50 < Steffanx> He kinda left the internet. So he's dead 
2021-04-02T23:39:54 < mawk> a
2021-04-02T23:39:56 < englishman> this
2021-04-02T23:39:58 < mawk> he will come back
2021-04-02T23:40:07 < Steffanx> No.
2021-04-02T23:41:07 < qyx> fuck this is no fun anymore
2021-04-02T23:41:12 < qyx> no usb-c connectors stocked
2021-04-02T23:41:19 < fenugrec> Steffanx, ahhaha I'm 1 day late with my announcement of ST/mchp merging product lines
2021-04-02T23:41:22 < qyx> except some weird power only 6 pin
2021-04-02T23:42:58 < qyx> and 24 contact of course which I don't want
2021-04-02T23:43:58 < aandrew> fenugrec: that better be a fucking april fool
2021-04-02T23:44:43 < fenugrec> aandrew, no no, it's true - go see the mchp corporate news page
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2021-04-02T23:46:03 < aandrew> looks like the most recent acquisition is oct 2020
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2021-04-02T23:46:27 < englishman> i hope they make Libero the new stm32 ide
2021-04-02T23:47:25 < aandrew> yeah that wasn't very funny fenu
2021-04-02T23:47:27 < fenugrec> didn't they announce the atmel acq on or close to apr.1 ?
2021-04-02T23:47:45 < fenugrec> yeah, apr 4. At the time I was sure it was a joke
--- Day changed Sat Apr 03 2021
2021-04-03T00:11:52 < zyp> Libero is the brand of diapers I buy for the kid
2021-04-03T00:12:53 < fenugrec> stm32cubediaper. fitting
2021-04-03T00:13:15 < zyp> https://www.libero.no/globalassets/new-product-pages-01/new-packshots-for-green-libero-packs/libero-open-diaper-touch-size5-22pcs.png
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2021-04-03T00:52:45 < BrainDamage> libero in italian means free as in freedom
2021-04-03T01:00:38 < karlp> we're libero too, butthey very rarely carry that "gold" version here.
2021-04-03T01:01:19 < karlp> not like we have a wide variety of choice....
2021-04-03T01:01:40 < karlp> I could go to one other store and buy huggies, or I could get libero from three different cheaper stores....
2021-04-03T01:02:12 < karlp> https://www.libero.com/Product/up-and-go/
2021-04-03T01:02:20 < bitmask> damn, got a tds meter in the mail today, knew our tap was gross but it reads 300 ppm, with the new RO filter it brings it down to 14
2021-04-03T01:02:21 < karlp> my daughter says these are her favourite ones....
2021-04-03T01:02:38 < karlp> tds doesn't necessarily mean bad....
2021-04-03T01:02:48 < bitmask> no but it is gross anyway
2021-04-03T01:03:39 < qyx> whats tds?
2021-04-03T01:03:45 < bitmask> total dissolved solids
2021-04-03T01:03:53 < bitmask> an electrical conductivity measurement
2021-04-03T01:03:53 < qyx> aha
2021-04-03T01:04:23 < qyx> my water pro said it doesn't say anything about quality of the water
2021-04-03T01:04:33 < bitmask> yea i know, cause good things raise the tds too
2021-04-03T01:04:41 < englishman> do they always use blonde models in nordic countries
2021-04-03T01:04:55 < bitmask> but my water is heavily chlorinated and stinks/tastes aweful so im sure theres not much good in there
2021-04-03T01:05:24 < karlp> englishman: no longer green here becuase https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/styles/is_large/public/images/2021w12_COVID19_EU_EEA_Subnational_Combined_traffic.png
2021-04-03T01:06:09 < englishman> oh this is what you meant by green
2021-04-03T01:06:33 < englishman> they had to make a new colour for my region beyond red. it's a fiery crimson
2021-04-03T01:08:19 < zyp> karlp, I think we've got libero, pampers and three different store brand options
2021-04-03T01:08:33 < karlp> fenugrec: yeah, the openocd fast pc sampling was a good easy improvement. even without swo, you can get ~decentish results.
2021-04-03T01:08:48 < karlp> before it was supported, but it was absolutely garbage, as it halted, read pc, then resumed.
2021-04-03T01:09:01 < karlp> now it just correctly samples as fast as it can queue commands to the adapter.
2021-04-03T01:09:04 < englishman> something like 15% of the week's cases in this region came from a single gym. my gym. and i didn't get it. i go there 5 days a week. i feel left out
2021-04-03T01:09:17 < karlp> still no comparison to pc sampling dumped out on SWO, but far far far more useufl than before
2021-04-03T01:10:36 < zyp> oh, pc sampling over swd? neat
2021-04-03T01:11:10 < fenugrec> karlp, have you used it ? how is the output parsed/analyzed
2021-04-03T01:11:55 < zyp> maybe you can feed it to orbtop?
2021-04-03T01:11:56 < zyp> ref. https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum#orbtop
2021-04-03T01:12:15 < karlp> TIL that ali uses .webp...
2021-04-03T01:14:41 < karlp> heh, I didn't recognize 2n3904, but it has it's own wikipedia page, and that lists BC548 as "equivlant, frrom europe" and that's what I had in dick smith kits growing up.
2021-04-03T01:18:43 < karlp> zyp: you might be able to feed it to orbntop, but the big difference iirc, was that you could just use profile in gdb with it...
2021-04-03T01:19:05 < karlp> orbtop _only_ takes the swo/itm formatted pc sampling.
2021-04-03T01:19:40 < zyp> ah
2021-04-03T01:20:56 < karlp> oh, nvm, it's http://www.openocd.org/doc/html/General-Commands.html#index-profiling
2021-04-03T01:21:20 < karlp> so you do "profile 20 output.gmon" to openocd...
2021-04-03T01:21:36 < karlp> and... iirc it does mor ethan 10k now too.
2021-04-03T01:21:46 < zyp> and that can be done as a monitor command in gdb too, I guess
2021-04-03T01:22:07 < zyp> hmm, but no report though
2021-04-03T01:22:13 < karlp> eyah, but it's monitor, not built into gdb.
2021-04-03T01:22:18 < zyp> yeah
2021-04-03T01:22:22 < zyp> oh well
2021-04-03T01:22:24 < karlp> and then "gprof profile output.gmon"
2021-04-03T01:22:55 < karlp> it worked well, and I tested it and the chane was from like ~19samples per sec to ~1900 samples per sec.
2021-04-03T01:23:13 < karlp> still not the same level as pc sampling over swo, but, ~useful and free. no extra pin or tooling required
2021-04-03T01:23:30 < zyp> I went down the rabbit hole of «I want timing traces of my async coroutines»
2021-04-03T01:23:44 < karlp> yeah, it's easy to get distracted
2021-04-03T01:23:50 < karlp> as I'm doing right now...
2021-04-03T01:26:44 < zyp> I think what I'm heading towards is a full ETM setup following the execution flow to nonintrusively log coroutine suspends and resumes, so I can make a nice graph of those
2021-04-03T01:27:24 < zyp> not sure how well it's gonna work out and how useful it's gonna be, but so far I'm having fun
2021-04-03T01:29:04 < karlp> :)
2021-04-03T01:29:14 < karlp> so... speaking of chip shortages...
2021-04-03T01:31:24 < zyp> what about chip shortages?
2021-04-03T01:32:30 < karlp> I ... may have a surplus of STM32L151C6T6 I could let go for a decent price if that's interesting...
2021-04-03T01:32:39 < karlp> (non-A suffix, ie, older parts)
2021-04-03T01:34:40 < karlp> I'd have to have interest in quite a few to make it work, but I could probably for something lik €1.6?
2021-04-03T01:34:41 < zyp> if dongs still got them, I also have a bunch of stm32l052r8t6 I don't need
2021-04-03T01:34:46 < karlp> heh
2021-04-03T01:35:08 < zyp> fucked up the BOM, bought 100 of them in the wrong package
2021-04-03T01:35:22 < zyp> what I did want was stm32l052c8t6
2021-04-03T01:35:59 < karlp> digikey has ~none of the c6t6-a, and 1500 of the c6t6, for $USD2.6 in 1k lots....
2021-04-03T01:36:48 < karlp> I've got more like 10k 
2021-04-03T01:39:03 < zyp> I'm not making any new designs based on l1, and with usb-capable g0 parts now existing I don't think I'll do any more l0 designs either
2021-04-03T01:39:13 < zyp> unless I'm actually picking it for low power at some point
2021-04-03T01:39:42 < karlp> nah, it's old stuff
2021-04-03T01:40:06 < karlp> you get less ram, out of spec usb pullup and more eeprom writes than the current -A parts.
2021-04-03T01:40:13 < karlp> but... if  chips are short...
2021-04-03T01:40:42 < karlp> but, "well tested" "field proven"
2021-04-03T01:40:51 < zyp> :)
2021-04-03T01:40:59 < zyp> I wonder how long the shortage is gonna last
2021-04-03T01:41:03 < karlp> these may even be old enough to have bad temp calibration roms too,  not sure how old these realyl are.
2021-04-03T01:41:25 < karlp> but, I'm not using them....
2021-04-03T01:41:57 < karlp> anyway, I'm about 70*% of the way through my project of converting some 20 year old perl into glossy shiny snek3, and it's going really well, so I'm going to continue.
2021-04-03T01:42:18 < zyp> I've been meaning to make a new arcin revision for a while
2021-04-03T01:43:04 < zyp> haven't decided whether to keep using f3 to keep old firmware binaries compatible, or redo it entirely with a new mcu
2021-04-03T02:03:50 < fenugrec> "...[not comparable to swo]" - granted, but for F0 parts, it's all they're going to get
2021-04-03T02:06:30 < karlp> yeah, I've never really tried workingwith m0 crap, no real ideas on what's good there or not.
2021-04-03T02:09:21 < karlp> c++ nerds, is ther eany meaningful difference between "constexpr int BLAH = 42" and "const int BLAH = 42" ?
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2021-04-03T11:49:48 < ventyl> karlp: nope, constexpr only makes sense on methods. it will either speed up your program a bit or fail at compile time
2021-04-03T12:04:31 < jpa-> karlp: constexpr "variables" make sense if you want to enforce that the initialization happens at compile time; for integer literal it makes no difference, but     constexpr int BLAH = compute_blah();   would work if compute_blah() is constexpr and static
2021-04-03T12:04:59 < jpa-> karlp: another difference is that constexpr initialization can be put in .h, unlike const which needs declaration there and initialization in .c
2021-04-03T12:05:05 < jpa-> (in .cxx)
2021-04-03T12:29:17 < zyp> jpa-, uh, no, const needs to be initialized immediately
2021-04-03T12:29:54 < zyp> but yeah, the rest of it makes sense
2021-04-03T12:31:15 < jpa-> zyp: hmm, AFAIK inside class it goes like .h:   class Foo { const int x; }   const int Foo::x = 1234;
2021-04-03T12:31:34 < jpa-> er hmm
2021-04-03T12:31:42 < jpa-> or did it have to be static also
2021-04-03T12:31:59 < zyp> that's static
2021-04-03T12:32:12 < zyp> has nothing to do with const really
2021-04-03T12:32:46 < jpa-> i guess i've just been throwing keywords until it compiles
2021-04-03T12:32:51 < zyp> :)
2021-04-03T12:34:14 < jpa-> i think i've also used in this case:    class Foo { Foo(int param = param_default);  constexpr int param_default = 1234; }   but not sure whether it makes difference there either
2021-04-03T12:34:44 < zyp> the difference between const int x = foo() and constexpr int x = foo() is that in the latter case, foo() has to be constexpr as well, so the value can be known at compile time, while in the former case it can be initialized at runtime from a global initializer
2021-04-03T12:35:09 < zyp> see e.g. https://godbolt.org/z/cKzbsY1aM
2021-04-03T12:35:51 < jpa-> answering myself, looks like it doesn't make difference there either
2021-04-03T12:36:30 < jpa-> yeah, that much is clear, i just somehow thought it had other differences also
2021-04-03T12:36:48 < zyp> there's also constinit and consteval keywords now
2021-04-03T12:37:01 < jpa-> ah it was this:   "error: ‘constexpr’ needed for in-class initialization of static data member ‘const float Foo::param_default’ of non-integral type"
2021-04-03T12:40:49 < zyp> consteval only applies to functions, and as I understand it, it's a stricter variant of constexpr that says that all invocations must be const
2021-04-03T12:41:20 < zyp> e.g. constexpr sqr(x) { return x*x; } only gives a const result if you call it with a const x
2021-04-03T12:41:34 < zyp> but if you make it consteval, you can only call it with a const x
2021-04-03T12:43:25 < zyp> ah, and constinit only applies to variables
2021-04-03T12:44:25 < zyp> it's a less strict variant, requires the object to be compile-time initialized, but doesn't make it const
2021-04-03T13:16:00 < disruptivenl> Maybe a stupid question... but in the datasheet in the Timer section you have: TIM1_CH2 and TIM1_CH2N (N addition).... I cannot find it... but what does the N suggests/means?
2021-04-03T13:16:08 < disruptivenl> STM32F40x
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2021-04-03T13:23:08 < effractur> disruptivenl: depends on the configuration what it does but afik in general is its the complematery/inverted sginal of the CH2
2021-04-03T13:23:19 < disruptivenl> Oke
2021-04-03T13:24:26 < disruptivenl> I was trying to activate TIM1, TIM8 and TIM8 to all do some function. And thought the N had something to do with Multiple ;-) Inverted I do understand the complematery is more a fuss for me
2021-04-03T13:24:37 < disruptivenl> TIM1, TIM3 and TIM8
2021-04-03T13:26:12 < effractur> but what it exactly does depends a lot on the configuraiton 
2021-04-03T13:27:05 < disruptivenl> yes I do understand thank you
2021-04-03T13:27:46 < disruptivenl> If I configure to use (counts) with the PWM on the advanced timers I was curious if I could use (say TIM3) for "normal" use
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2021-04-03T16:47:26 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-04-03T16:47:46 < Laurenceb> Englishman: all muh cheap usb audio adaptors are sss1629
2021-04-03T16:47:50 < Laurenceb> you were right
2021-04-03T16:48:32 < Laurenceb> sss1629 is kind of nice, has s/pdif, configurable gpio and i2c eeprom
2021-04-03T16:48:42 < Laurenceb> analogue spec is below AC97 tho
2021-04-03T16:49:26 < Laurenceb> oh yeah, IR input support too, can use it as a IR remote -> HID bridge
2021-04-03T16:55:40 < Steffanx> but does it work on lunix?
2021-04-03T16:55:50 < Steffanx> or to be more specific: lunix munt
2021-04-03T16:56:38 < englishman> it said sss1629 in the amadong link you posted
2021-04-03T16:57:10 < Laurenceb> derp
2021-04-03T16:57:21 < Laurenceb> I've dismantled all this shit
2021-04-03T17:02:45 < Steffanx> lol
2021-04-03T17:27:24 < Laurenceb> someone failed with the eeprom
2021-04-03T17:27:30 < Laurenceb> >default gain 4096dB
2021-04-03T17:34:45 < qyx> does it seem unreaslistoc?
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2021-04-03T17:44:32 < disruptivenl> Oke I have Advanced timers working and even with a pulse count..... BUT when I also use a GENERIC timer and want it to be time based (say TIM4) it seems to give troubles. Am I missing something here?
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2021-04-03T18:00:24 < Steffanx> I bet you are disruptivenl 
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2021-04-03T18:20:35 < jadew> is there any chance I will find a modern mother board with PCI slots?
2021-04-03T18:21:27 < jadew> hah! found one
2021-04-03T18:21:35 < jadew> and it's one of the cheaper ones
2021-04-03T18:21:54 < jadew> wtf... it has an LPT port too lol
2021-04-03T18:22:39 < karlp> was looking at this https://github.com/arihantdaga/Arduino/commit/800794de372d053bb9616eb7af24c4a56a4d023e#diff-9827d55cbab21f79faea204a0d6956a66b5646ab091be0d4677d2c1f640e60b0R52
2021-04-03T18:22:43 < karlp> and didn't think it made much sense...
2021-04-03T18:23:05 < Steffanx> some semi modern server/workstation mother boards have it, jadew 
2021-04-03T18:23:12 < BrainDamage> jadew: perhaps it'd be wiser to search for  usb-pci adapter?
2021-04-03T18:23:32 < BrainDamage> or pci-e to pci
2021-04-03T18:23:42 < jadew> BrainDamage, thought about it, but it sounds like something that will collect a lot of dust
2021-04-03T18:23:58 < jadew> I want to keep the PCI stuff on the inside if it's still possible
2021-04-03T18:24:01 < Steffanx> A PCI port in 2021 will always collect dust
2021-04-03T18:24:20 < Steffanx> Will you even have proper drivers
2021-04-03T18:24:26 < jadew> I do, yeah
2021-04-03T18:24:36 < BrainDamage> pretty sure you can shove it in a case
2021-04-03T18:24:37 < jadew> I'm currently using both my PCI ports
2021-04-03T18:24:50 < jadew> BrainDamage, I suppose you're right
2021-04-03T18:24:51 < BrainDamage> what's the hw out of curiosity?
2021-04-03T18:24:54 < jadew> I'll keep that as a last resort tho
2021-04-03T18:25:01 < jadew> BrainDamage, GPIB controller
2021-04-03T18:25:07 < BrainDamage> let me bet, gpib port
2021-04-03T18:25:11 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-03T18:25:11  * karlp lols
2021-04-03T18:25:13 < BrainDamage> bingo
2021-04-03T18:25:25 < BrainDamage> get a ethernet to gpib bridge
2021-04-03T18:25:30 < karlp> or even usb.
2021-04-03T18:26:17 < jadew> I might at some point, but I kinda like this one
2021-04-03T18:26:32 < jadew> because it works :)
2021-04-03T18:27:42 < jadew> I'll probably end up with an adapter tho, that was the only mobo with PCI and it sucked from basically any other POV
2021-04-03T18:28:44 < BrainDamage> exactly
2021-04-03T18:29:10 < BrainDamage> also pci-gpib is still an adapter
2021-04-03T18:29:29 < BrainDamage> nothing forbids pci-e gpib, or anything you want
2021-04-03T18:29:33 < jadew> yeah, but now I need an adapter to the adapter, or a different adapter I guess
2021-04-03T18:29:44 < BrainDamage> different
2021-04-03T18:29:52 < BrainDamage> adapter to adapter will only bring pain
2021-04-03T18:35:11 < effractur> almost all atx boards still have one PCI port
2021-04-03T18:35:30 < effractur> but there are enough PCIE to PCI adapters
2021-04-03T18:35:31 < jadew> not the ones in stock at this shop
2021-04-03T18:35:37 < jadew> I expanded the search, maybe I'll get lucky
2021-04-03T18:35:58 < jadew> I'll look into that too
2021-04-03T18:36:09 < jadew> (if I can't find a proper mobo)
2021-04-03T18:36:54 < effractur> jadew: what platform are you looking for?
2021-04-03T18:36:56 < effractur> as in cpu/chipset
2021-04-03T18:37:05 < jadew> intel i7
2021-04-03T18:37:22 < effractur> and what i7 series?
2021-04-03T18:37:24 < effractur> therea like 20 of them
2021-04-03T18:37:26 < jadew> coffee
2021-04-03T18:37:55 < jadew> i7-9700
2021-04-03T18:38:35 < effractur> https://www.asrockind.com/en-gb/IMB-1311-D
2021-04-03T18:38:40 < effractur> or any oder asrock industrial board 
2021-04-03T18:39:32 < jadew> that looks nice
2021-04-03T18:39:54 < jadew> I need a full size one tho
2021-04-03T18:40:07 < effractur> why full sized?
2021-04-03T18:40:10 < jadew> but it's good to know there are still options available
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2021-04-03T18:40:24 < jadew> full size case
2021-04-03T18:40:30 < jadew> I would get more ports with it
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2021-04-03T18:41:00 < effractur> so how many pci do yo uneed then?
2021-04-03T18:41:12 < jadew> I use two, but I can give up to one of them
2021-04-03T18:41:14 < jadew> *on
2021-04-03T18:41:35 < jadew> but I figure that if I have the space, why not take advantage of it?
2021-04-03T18:41:42 < jadew> maybe I'll want to add more cards in the future
2021-04-03T18:41:48 < effractur> more PCI or more PCIe?
2021-04-03T18:41:53 < jadew> PCIe
2021-04-03T18:41:59 < jadew> I don't think I'll add more PCI
2021-04-03T18:42:01 < jadew> one should suffice
2021-04-03T18:42:07 < effractur> so that one i linked is 2x PCI and 2x PCIe
2021-04-03T18:42:31 < jadew> yeah, but I have room for more :P
2021-04-03T18:42:43 < effractur> yea but they don't make full sized boards for coffeelake
2021-04-03T18:42:44 < effractur> with PCI
2021-04-03T18:43:02 < effractur> they do for 10th gen
2021-04-03T18:43:03 < effractur> https://www.asrockind.com/en-gb/IMB-1711
2021-04-03T18:43:05 < jadew> oh... well I'll still look and if I can't find any, I guess I'll downsize
2021-04-03T18:43:22 < jadew> interesting
2021-04-03T18:44:09 < effractur> and do yo uneedt 5V PCI or 3v3
2021-04-03T18:44:27 < effractur> other option would be https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X11SCA-W
2021-04-03T18:44:37 < jadew> is PCI not standard?
2021-04-03T18:45:12 < effractur> no
2021-04-03T18:45:17 < effractur> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_Component_Interconnect#/media/File:PCI_Keying.svg
2021-04-03T18:45:36 < effractur> there are multiple key'ings
2021-04-03T18:45:42 < effractur> but all tstuff on modern boards is 5v 32bit
2021-04-03T18:45:56 < jadew> I never knew there could be any other kind
2021-04-03T18:46:24 < effractur> but for this stuff asrock industrial or supermicro
2021-04-03T18:47:07 < jadew> thanks, I'll see I'll see if I can find any of them locally
2021-04-03T18:57:26 < jadew> this is all I could find in stock locally: https://www.emag.ro/placa-de-baza-asus-socket-1151-prime-h370-plus/pd/DG5G4FBBM/
2021-04-03T18:57:57 < effractur> ro is?
2021-04-03T18:57:59 < jadew> didn't check other sizes yet, I should
2021-04-03T18:58:02 < effractur> romania?
2021-04-03T18:58:03 < jadew> effractur, Romania
2021-04-03T18:58:06 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-03T18:59:43 < zyp> you must really love that pci-gpib card if you're letting that decide what motherboard to buy
2021-04-03T19:00:04 < qyx> sell it
2021-04-03T19:00:10 < qyx> with all of your gpib stuff
2021-04-03T19:00:14 < qyx> it is going to be redundant
2021-04-03T19:00:28 < qyx> the whole EE is about to die, no more semiconductors
2021-04-03T19:00:32 < effractur> gpib?
2021-04-03T19:00:55 < jadew> zyp, I just don't want to wait for another one
2021-04-03T19:01:12 < jadew> I could get a PCIe-GPIB, but I want this PC tomorrow
2021-04-03T19:01:12 < qyx> we all will be programming in node.js and rust and Go
2021-04-03T19:01:23 < effractur> you know that GPIB usb controllers exist right
2021-04-03T19:01:28 < effractur> and are not that expensive
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2021-04-03T19:01:55 < zyp> jadew, I'd argue a new gpib adapter is probably gonna be as easy to source as a motherboard with pci slots
2021-04-03T19:02:05 < jadew> right, but I've read all sorts of stories about them and even if I was willing to get one, I would still have to wait for it
2021-04-03T19:02:29 < jadew> zyp, I can have that mobo tomorrow
2021-04-03T19:02:51 < jadew> the GPIB controller I could have it next week, if I'm lucky
2021-04-03T19:03:04 < jadew> and what do I do if I need it on Monday?
2021-04-03T19:03:23 < effractur> mouser has them in stock
2021-04-03T19:03:44 < jadew> mouser takes a week (or more these days) to deliver here
2021-04-03T19:03:48 < BrainDamage> do you actually need it monday or is this just hypothetical?
2021-04-03T19:04:02 < jadew> BrainDamage, I need it several times per week
2021-04-03T19:04:12 < jadew> it's not unlikely that I will need it Monday, or even today
2021-04-03T19:04:16 < effractur> jadew: so PCI mobos are probaly also have a leadtime
2021-04-03T19:04:21 < effractur> they are not that common anymore
2021-04-03T19:04:35 < jadew> effractur, that one that I found, I can literally have it tomorrow
2021-04-03T19:04:43 < fenugrec> just steal an old computer from a dumpster
2021-04-03T19:04:47 < BrainDamage> when you buy next gpib adapter, make sure to buy 2
2021-04-03T19:05:03 < fenugrec> although trashed comps are probably too recent to still have pci
2021-04-03T19:05:13 < effractur> well by that one then :P
2021-04-03T19:05:31 < fenugrec> ran into the same problem looking for ... an ISA slot for a gpib adapter
2021-04-03T19:05:32 < BrainDamage> and don't wait to replace that the bus was obsoleted since 15 yeears >.>
2021-04-03T19:05:33 < jadew> effractur, that's the plan, it doesn't seem that bad
2021-04-03T19:06:14 < effractur> fenugrec: no PCI is more expensive then PCIE because you need an converter
2021-04-03T19:06:18 < effractur> is not on the chipset anymore
2021-04-03T19:06:25 < effractur> ISA is still on the chipset
2021-04-03T19:06:27 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, but I have a lot of old equipment
2021-04-03T19:06:34 < jadew> I don't think I'll drop GPIB anytime soon
2021-04-03T19:06:45 < BrainDamage> I didn't say to drop gpib
2021-04-03T19:07:02 < BrainDamage> I said to drop the adapter when pci got obsoleted
2021-04-03T19:07:04 < effractur> just get some gpib to usb 
2021-04-03T19:07:07 < BrainDamage> you had 15 years time :p
2021-04-03T19:07:08 < jadew> ah, I see
2021-04-03T19:07:14 < jadew> you are right :)
2021-04-03T19:07:29 < jadew> I could have given up on PCI last time, but I wanted to keep my audio card
2021-04-03T19:07:45 < fenugrec> effractur, ? I said nothing about pci/isa being more expensive, they're just old and the typical mobo likely to be thrown away these days probably doesn't have PCI even.
2021-04-03T19:07:46 < jadew> and when I got the GPIB adapter, I had a PCI slot free, so... PCI :)
2021-04-03T19:07:48 < BrainDamage> replacing lab instruments costs big bucks, replacing interfacing hw no
2021-04-03T19:08:02 < effractur> fenugrec: aa you said trashed i read trash
2021-04-03T19:08:19 < karlp> you don't see computers in the bin much these days.
2021-04-03T19:08:26 < karlp> everyone has shitty laptops
2021-04-03T19:08:52 < jadew> and they probably hang on to those, because they're easy to store
2021-04-03T19:09:55 < fenugrec> Hah, I recently tossed a dead ~ 2004 laptop that I forgot I even had, because it was easy to store P )
2021-04-03T19:09:56 < zyp> yeah, I have a pile of old laptops, but I got rid of a bunch of larger stuff one time I moved
2021-04-03T19:11:07 < zyp> still have every laptop I've owned, plus a few more
2021-04-03T19:13:07 < effractur> got 3 main laptops anyway
2021-04-03T19:13:29 < effractur> work,travel,private
2021-04-03T19:13:30 < zyp> jadew, if you want something with a pci slot, you can have my old 2008 dell
2021-04-03T19:13:38 < jadew> :)
2021-04-03T19:13:45 < zyp> I've got a docking station for it with a full size pci slot
2021-04-03T19:14:03 < jadew> never had a docking station for my laptops
2021-04-03T19:14:16 < jadew> did you ever use it?
2021-04-03T19:14:25 < zyp> I got it for the pci slot
2021-04-03T19:14:32 < jadew> haha
2021-04-03T19:14:48 < jadew> I can relate to that :)
2021-04-03T19:15:10 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/lBEFR.JPG
2021-04-03T19:15:24 < zyp> got a fiber channel HBA installed in it
2021-04-03T19:15:47 < fenugrec> haha is that a valid IDcard
2021-04-03T19:15:56 < jadew> is that you on the ID card?
2021-04-03T19:16:03 < jadew> :D
2021-04-03T19:16:05 < zyp> haha, yeah
2021-04-03T19:16:08 < fenugrec> auto-doxed
2021-04-03T19:16:33 < zyp> over 8 years since I worked there, and ST-Ericsson doesn't exist anymore, so that's fine :p
2021-04-03T19:17:38 < aandrew> fenugrec: autodox, roll out!
2021-04-03T19:18:20 < jadew> only issue I might have with the mobo I found is that it only supports 64 GB of RAM, and it will make me feel inferior, because zyp has more
2021-04-03T19:19:49 < BrainDamage> do you use one computer for everything?
2021-04-03T19:20:00 < jadew> me? I do
2021-04-03T19:20:02 < BrainDamage> I have a small board to interface with instruments, etc
2021-04-03T19:20:15 < jadew> I mean.. I have two servers too
2021-04-03T19:20:23 < BrainDamage> I've had quite a few accidents in the past
2021-04-03T19:20:37 < BrainDamage> wiith 220V going down usb, etc
2021-04-03T19:20:45 < jadew> oh
2021-04-03T19:20:54 < jadew> I only fried one USB port so far
2021-04-03T19:21:12 < jadew> not on this mobo
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2021-04-03T19:23:33 < jadew> ok, this upgrade is not particularly expensive, ~$800 and it includes: i7-9700, mobo with onboard stuff I don't need, and 64 GB of RAM
2021-04-03T19:23:55 < jadew> I wonder if my existing cooler will work with the new CPU
2021-04-03T19:25:33 < jadew> will check smaller mobos now, maybe I can find one with PCI that can take 128 GB of RAM
2021-04-03T19:26:01 < fenugrec> are you running 100 VMs with GPIB software or what
2021-04-03T19:27:22 < jadew> I don't know, but 16 GB doesn't seem enough anymore (I constantly run into swap-related issues), and since I upgrade my PC every decade or so, it needs to be beefy enough to stay relevant for that long
2021-04-03T19:28:56 < jadew> 5 years from now, I'll be running 3 browser instances on each 8k monitor, all playing simultaneously 3D pornhub
2021-04-03T19:29:02 < fenugrec> in a decade everything will be on the cloud, even ram
2021-04-03T19:29:08 < jadew> that'll probably need some RAM
2021-04-03T19:29:33 < fenugrec> SCAM - secure cloud-access memory
2021-04-03T19:29:37 < effractur> tbh it is quite stupid to upgrade at this point
2021-04-03T19:29:41 < effractur> ddr4 is EOL
2021-04-03T19:29:45 < effractur> PCIE4.0 is EOL
2021-04-03T19:30:23 < jadew> unless the new versions come out tomorrow, it doesn't matter
2021-04-03T19:30:33 < jadew> I need more power today
2021-04-03T19:30:43 < effractur> so what cpu do you know have then?
2021-04-03T19:30:49 < Steffanx> PCIE4.0 EOL my arse.
2021-04-03T19:30:56 < effractur> Steffanx: next gen is 5.0
2021-04-03T19:31:09 < jadew> effractur, AMD phenom 1100t
2021-04-03T19:31:26 < effractur> ah yea
2021-04-03T19:31:31 < effractur> then an upgrade is in place
2021-04-03T19:31:46 < effractur> but depending on the availbity going for a zen2/zen3 thing could also be a good option
2021-04-03T19:31:50 < aandrew> jadew: nice. I still have a first-gen ryzen and a first-gen ryzen motherboard. it is an amazing architecture
2021-04-03T19:32:12 < effractur> but intel is afiak the only stuff that is actually avaible at this momeny anyway
2021-04-03T19:32:21 < Steffanx> Sure effractur, but it will probably be a while before it actually becomes available and shit. And for some reason mr jadew  doesnt strike me as a "i need PCIE5.0" guy.
2021-04-03T19:32:38 < effractur> Steffanx: end of 2021 afaik
2021-04-03T19:32:42 < effractur> Steffanx: but yea indeed
2021-04-03T19:38:38 < jadew> aandrew, this one is pretty decent too
2021-04-03T19:38:52 < jadew> the main reason I'm making the upgrade is because I'm running out of memory
2021-04-03T19:39:09 < Steffanx> dont run 15 instances of visual studio
2021-04-03T19:39:34 < fenugrec> or >=1 instance of cubide
2021-04-03T19:39:37 < effractur> im actually running out of 32gb ram currntly
2021-04-03T19:39:49 < jadew> eh, it's much easier than that to run out of 16 GB today
2021-04-03T19:40:57 < effractur> yea
2021-04-03T19:41:11 < effractur> but your OS will always try to use all memory avaible
2021-04-03T19:41:22 < effractur> so adding more will not really solve the issue :P
2021-04-03T19:42:11 < Steffanx> 32 GB here and only 12.0 in use..
2021-04-03T19:43:50 < effractur> 32 here and almost all of it in use but 22 of that is file system buffers
2021-04-03T19:43:58 < effractur> and that does not really count
2021-04-03T19:45:26 < jadew> can someone spot where the other 2 SATA ports are? https://www.asus.com/media/global/gallery/KeOu1DCAs0WNQC9G_setting_xxx_0_90_end_800.png
2021-04-03T19:45:32 < jadew> there are 4 in the bottom right corner
2021-04-03T19:45:49 < jadew> ah, they're right next to them
2021-04-03T19:45:56 < jadew> just horizontally placed
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2021-04-03T19:48:40 < jadew> I need to check how many sata ports I'm using, current mobo has 8
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2021-04-03T20:17:35 < zyp> I don't imagine next computer I get will use any
2021-04-03T20:18:13 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's likely going to nvme everything
2021-04-03T20:18:25 < BrainDamage> sata being relegated to nas
2021-04-03T20:18:33 < zyp> exactly
2021-04-03T20:18:55 < zyp> nvme for anything that need to be local, and the rest can be on a network share
2021-04-03T20:19:58 < jadew> turns out I'm using 7 SATA ports, but I figured the same, I'll have to migrate towards more network storage
2021-04-03T20:55:07 < qyx> 7 sata ports on a desktop workstation?
2021-04-03T20:55:09 < qyx> what for?
2021-04-03T20:56:28 < jadew> 1 x OS1, 1 x OS2, 2 x RAID 1, 2 x Storage, 1 x DVD-ROM
2021-04-03T20:57:02 < jadew> I can move at least one of the storage ones in the network
2021-04-03T20:57:04 < qyx> uh dvd rom
2021-04-03T20:57:21 < jadew> for backups
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2021-04-03T21:05:44 < Steffanx> What is a DVD-ROM?
2021-04-03T21:06:01 < Steffanx> Last time i used that is like 10 years ago.
2021-04-03T21:06:46 < jadew> I wasn't using it either, but I have this theory about optical media being safer for backups, because it cannot be corrupted by viruses and ransomware
2021-04-03T21:07:10 < jadew> I wish BDs were cheaper
2021-04-03T21:07:50 < Steffanx> Just make sure you make enough money that either you dont care about your data or just pay them
2021-04-03T21:08:07 < jadew> I don't think anyone pays them
2021-04-03T21:08:23 < Steffanx> them = the ransomwarers
2021-04-03T21:08:29 < Steffanx> and im pretty sure some do
2021-04-03T21:08:50 < jadew> do you think they help you get your stuff back if you do?
2021-04-03T21:09:13 < Steffanx> Ask those companies/universities that did. 
2021-04-03T21:09:33 < Steffanx> Answer: Yes.
2021-04-03T21:10:00 < jadew> I guess in a targeted attack, you might have a chance
2021-04-03T21:10:24 < jadew> but if you just got some virus off of a stick, I doubt there's going to be anyone at the other end of the line
2021-04-03T21:10:51 < BrainDamage> jadew: optical media suffers from metal layer pitting
2021-04-03T21:11:15 < BrainDamage> a crapton of cd drives become damaged after ~15 years
2021-04-03T21:11:35 < BrainDamage> now if 15 years data retention is enough for you, go for it
2021-04-03T21:11:40 < jadew> that's fine, the idea is that once it's there, it cannot be erased by a virus
2021-04-03T21:11:51 < jadew> I wouldn't need backups from 2 years ago anyway
2021-04-03T21:11:54 < jadew> at most a couple of months
2021-04-03T21:12:00 < jadew> so is perfectly suitable for that
2021-04-03T21:12:09 < BrainDamage> also, it seems to me what you want is prom storage, not optical
2021-04-03T21:12:20 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-03T21:12:22 < BrainDamage> iirc some linear tapes are write once too
2021-04-03T21:15:40 < Steffanx> Just use SD cards and flip lock :P
2021-04-03T21:15:49 < Steffanx> the lock*
2021-04-03T21:16:42 < jadew> that would work if I used one SD card per backup
2021-04-03T21:16:53 < jadew> but what I do is keep the disk in the drive and only change it when it's full
2021-04-03T21:17:17 < jadew> would get expensive like that
2021-04-03T21:17:37 < jadew> I could make a SD adapter that prevents overwriting I suppose
2021-04-03T21:17:45 < jadew> not sure what that would entail
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2021-04-03T21:20:41 < effractur> jadew: you know that the lifespan of DVD(-/+)R stuff is like <5 years
2021-04-03T21:21:54 < qyx> I don't have a single readable cd/dcd now
2021-04-03T21:28:02 < Steffanx> me neither, have no reader.
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2021-04-03T21:34:12 < Steffanx> Farewell jadew
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2021-04-03T21:37:21 < jadew> effractur, don't need them for 5 years
2021-04-03T21:38:02 < jadew> I only ever need the latest backup
2021-04-03T21:38:11 < jadew> if I ever need it
2021-04-03T21:39:11 < jadew> I have a backup program I wrote that packs everything from my work drive into a neat archive - that's what I start the DVD with
2021-04-03T21:39:30 < jadew> then, until it's full, I do incremental backups with the same program
2021-04-03T21:39:48 < jadew> next disk, new fresh backup
2021-04-03T21:40:02 < jadew> I end up making a new disk every 3-4 months
2021-04-03T22:06:13 < englishman> has nvme standardized a bit? ie. you dont have to think about what specific type of nvme
2021-04-03T22:07:10 < effractur> englishman: well depends on the featuers you want
2021-04-03T22:07:19 < effractur> but its all standardized
2021-04-03T22:07:33 < englishman> what kind of features?
2021-04-03T22:07:45 < effractur> well zo nvme added a lot of nice fancy enterprise features
2021-04-03T22:07:50 < effractur> like running it over a remote fabric
2021-04-03T22:07:53 < effractur> or zoning etc
2021-04-03T22:08:03 < englishman> yeah no just for desktop
2021-04-03T22:08:11 < effractur> yea that works fine
2021-04-03T22:11:09 < englishman> thx
2021-04-03T22:11:27 < englishman> when i upgraded the nvme in my laptop a while ago i had to hunt down some obscure version of nvme
2021-04-03T22:12:52 < Steffanx> You mean size wise or .. ?
2021-04-03T22:15:58 < qyx> what standardised features?
2021-04-03T22:16:01 < qyx> it is just a disk
2021-04-03T22:16:06 < qyx> what do you want to hunt for
2021-04-03T22:16:25 < qyx> are you using some niche OS like win10?
2021-04-03T22:17:04 < Steffanx> englighten us englishman 
2021-04-03T22:17:30 < englishman> ?
2021-04-03T22:17:32 < englishman> i dont remember
2021-04-03T22:17:39 < englishman> there was like type A and G and N or something
2021-04-03T22:18:26 < Steffanx> oh you mean the key types of the m2 slot?
2021-04-03T22:18:44 < englishman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2#Form_factors_and_keying
2021-04-03T22:19:20 < Steffanx> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Intel_512G_M2_Solid_State_Drive.jpg thats why "hand models"  exist :D
2021-04-03T22:20:28 < englishman> i guess it wasnt a nvme drive then but a m.2 sata drive
2021-04-03T22:20:32 < englishman> or whatever gayness
2021-04-03T22:20:52 < qyx> thats possible
2021-04-03T22:20:59 < qyx> but it wasn§t nvme in thta case
2021-04-03T22:21:12 < Steffanx> Yeah i had to buy a M.2 42mm sata one once. Those arent very common or unknown branded.
2021-04-03T22:21:18 < PaulFertser> It's interesting I wasn't able to see what connector should be used when _only_ m.2 nvme is supported (to make it obvious sata drives wouldn't work).
2021-04-03T22:21:19 < qyx> nvme is nvme
2021-04-03T22:21:23 < englishman> so i still have to check if i have the right dingle for the dongle
2021-04-03T22:22:00 < qyx> you need pcie dingle for your nvme dongle
2021-04-03T22:23:10 < qyx> so a M-key
2021-04-03T22:23:35 < qyx> but it will work in others too, E-key for example with half of the bandwidth
2021-04-03T22:24:15 < qyx> if it fits
2021-04-03T22:26:45 < zyp> it doesn't
2021-04-03T22:27:44 < zyp> IIRC there's four common m.2 keyings; A, E, B and M, and dual-key cards are usually A+E or B+M
2021-04-03T22:27:45 < qyx> B-key may fit
2021-04-03T22:28:05 < zyp> a B+M card will fit
2021-04-03T22:28:15 < zyp> but will probably not be NVME
2021-04-03T22:29:13 < qyx> whats on your intel, M + E?
2021-04-03T22:29:39 < zyp> I believe M-key has pcie-lanes where the B-key notch is, so a B+M card can't support 4x
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2021-04-03T22:30:01 < zyp> and it seems to me most ssds are either M-key nvme or B+M-key sata
2021-04-03T22:30:20 < zyp> the seeed thing got one B slot and one M slot IIRC
2021-04-03T22:36:03 < englishman> this gtx1660 i bought 6 months ago has increased in price 150%
2021-04-03T22:38:11 < fenugrec> scalp it
2021-04-03T22:50:00 < Laurenceb> damn I missed yesterday
2021-04-03T22:50:04 < Laurenceb> it was autism day
2021-04-03T22:50:23 < Steffanx> For you its autism day every day...
2021-04-03T23:00:04 < bitmask> ::claps::
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2021-04-03T23:02:11 < Steffanx> Welcome bitmask . hows the day today
2021-04-03T23:02:59 < bitmask> not too bad but meh, and yourself?
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2021-04-03T23:03:11 < Steffanx> same :)
2021-04-03T23:05:12 < bitmask> sucks that theres a medication that makes you better but its also bad for you so you cant take it for more than a couple weeks
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2021-04-03T23:08:00 < Steffanx> but there is a pill for that right? A pill that has another side effect, so you get a pill for that etc. etc. :)
2021-04-03T23:08:19 < bitmask> heh nope, cant take steroids for long periods
2021-04-03T23:09:19 < Steffanx> You went to Dr. House? 
2021-04-03T23:09:20 < bitmask> I get to start injecting myself with humira every other week though, hopefully that fixes me
2021-04-03T23:09:27 < Steffanx> You either have Lupus or something weird :P
2021-04-03T23:10:39 < Steffanx> Nevermind.. lol. Steroids was in the House MD series like the goto med.
2021-04-03T23:10:52 < bitmask> its never lupus, its sarcoidosis
2021-04-03T23:11:16 < bitmask> but no i have crohns
2021-04-03T23:12:05 < Steffanx> aay
2021-04-03T23:12:26 < Steffanx> didnt you say a few months back "at least its not crohns" ?
2021-04-03T23:13:36 < bitmask> im not sure? i was diagnosed by one dr in july and then went to a new dr cause that guy sucked and he didn't think it was crohns at first but I believe I thought it always was and he finally diagnosed it too
2021-04-03T23:14:23 < bitmask> so at least im starting treatment now
2021-04-03T23:17:52 < Steffanx> hm
2021-04-03T23:20:50 < Laurenceb> ok this is weird
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2021-04-03T23:21:12 < Laurenceb> all my microphones are mono but send audio to tip and ring
2021-04-03T23:21:32 < Laurenceb> I thought soundblaster "spec" was audio to tip and ring for phantom power
2021-04-03T23:22:36 < Laurenceb> also ss1629 input referred noise is <~50nV/sqrt(Hz) above 2kHz even on my crappy china boards
2021-04-03T23:22:42 < Laurenceb> not bad at all
2021-04-03T23:23:02 < Laurenceb> as good as an instrumentation amp
2021-04-03T23:24:03 < Laurenceb> and input is equivalent to ~x150 gain
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--- Day changed Sun Apr 04 2021
2021-04-04T00:06:00 < qyx> isnt tip audio + 2V mic bias and sleeve is gnd?
2021-04-04T00:12:40 < Laurenceb> all my cheap shit is +3.3V on tip and ring
2021-04-04T00:13:02 < Laurenceb> then my mono mics have tip and ring shorted internally
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2021-04-04T00:47:51 < karlp> ok. weekend project completed.
2021-04-04T00:48:14 < jpa-> karlp: you're ahead of time
2021-04-04T00:48:16 < karlp> replaced 1500 lines of perl with 380 lines of python plus 200 lines of jinja templates
2021-04-04T00:48:52 < karlp> and now it's actually feasible for me to consider making webby changes to the galleries :)
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2021-04-04T01:19:59 < karlp> now... will it make me actually publish more photos?!
2021-04-04T01:24:09 < Steffanx> Ofcourse
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2021-04-04T02:32:34 < kakium69> hello hello
2021-04-04T02:32:46 < kakium69> hello night crew and hello HelloShitty
2021-04-04T02:34:57 < HelloShitty> :p
2021-04-04T02:34:58 < HelloShitty> Hi
2021-04-04T02:39:48 < kakium69> are you new here?
2021-04-04T03:35:34 < Laurenceb> https://ibin.co/5xDhU2N6FlL6.png
2021-04-04T03:35:43 < Laurenceb> sss1629
2021-04-04T03:35:54 < Laurenceb> btfoing analogue devices inst amps
2021-04-04T03:54:20 < englishman> is the unit really nV/√Hz
2021-04-04T03:54:27 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-04-04T03:54:42 < Laurenceb> hmm with a jfet on the front it'll get even moar insane
2021-04-04T03:54:52 < Laurenceb> easily hit the thermal noise limit
2021-04-04T03:55:10 < Laurenceb> pity about the 1/f noise, thats nasty
2021-04-04T03:55:18 < Laurenceb> but I can modulate my strain gauges
2021-04-04T03:55:58 < Laurenceb> this will outperform conventional analogue devices inst amp by two orders of magnitude
2021-04-04T03:57:50 < englishman> yes just use a 100Hz LIA
2021-04-04T04:03:28 < kakium69> wait
2021-04-04T04:04:14 < kakium69> why are not everyone doing it like that?
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2021-04-04T04:15:45 < Laurenceb> good question
2021-04-04T04:15:52 < Laurenceb> seems haxorish, but data looks good
2021-04-04T04:16:10 < Laurenceb> ooh sss1629 has i2c <-> usb hid bridge
2021-04-04T04:16:15 < Laurenceb> just gets better
2021-04-04T04:21:39 < englishman> how did you take those measurements?
2021-04-04T04:24:02 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-04T04:26:01 < Laurenceb> englishman: arecord with gain set to min and max
2021-04-04T04:26:07 < Laurenceb> then scaled from the datasheet
2021-04-04T04:26:18 < kakium69> if such chip intended for consumer devices is so good
2021-04-04T04:27:00 < kakium69> shouldn't there be like even better solutions if you pay moneys
2021-04-04T04:27:35 < Laurenceb> well analogue devices + stm32g4 would outperform it
2021-04-04T04:27:40 < Laurenceb> but not massively
2021-04-04T04:27:52 < kakium69> okay
2021-04-04T04:28:17 < Laurenceb> at lower frequencies stm32g4 would be >10 times better
2021-04-04T04:28:31 < Laurenceb> but at ~7kHz theres not much in it
2021-04-04T04:29:01 < kakium69> so strain gauges? hyperloop vibration measurements?
2021-04-04T04:29:10 < Laurenceb> traction control
2021-04-04T04:29:29 < kakium69> if has propulsion by wheels?
2021-04-04T04:29:33 < kakium69> :o
2021-04-04T04:29:55 < kakium69> and how traction control requires strain gauges?
2021-04-04T04:31:39 < kakium69> such mystery
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2021-04-04T04:34:35 < kakium69> why you need usb hid?
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2021-04-04T04:36:38 < kakium69> Laurenceb
2021-04-04T04:38:45 < kakium69> spill the beans
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2021-04-04T10:52:39 < qyx> hello pros, hows your easter potato salad?
2021-04-04T10:57:38 < jpa-> what, potato salad is new years eve food
2021-04-04T10:58:17 < zyp> nah, potato salad goes with summer bbq
2021-04-04T10:58:26 < jpa-> easter is this: https://external-preview.redd.it/rUsBEmsZBUH4ZE5PfbfDQsQldR_bvfQdDBy8zyW2pU4.jpg?auto=webp&s=edb14d26d7a4b80b008dc9650ba9178be408c65a
2021-04-04T10:58:49 < zyp> very good
2021-04-04T11:16:50 < qyx> whats that
2021-04-04T11:17:07 < qyx> an easter poo?
2021-04-04T11:17:16 < jpa-> yeah
2021-04-04T11:17:57 < jpa-> traditional finnish easter poodding
2021-04-04T11:57:49 < qyx> anyone using unifi mesh?
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2021-04-04T15:55:22 < jadew> new stuff is here
2021-04-04T15:55:30 < jadew> I'm short two USB ports (on the inside)
2021-04-04T15:55:35 < jadew> and one SATA
2021-04-04T15:55:56 < jadew> and it also messed up my monitor calibration :/
2021-04-04T15:56:47 < jadew> waiting for the soft raid to resync
2021-04-04T15:56:51 < jadew> not sure why it needs to do that
2021-04-04T15:57:36 < jpa-> to sync your new empty drives over the filthy old drives
2021-04-04T15:57:50 < jadew> heh
2021-04-04T15:58:02 < jadew> that would be awful
2021-04-04T15:58:05 < jadew> they're both old
2021-04-04T15:58:23 < jadew> I'm introducing them one at a time (in this case two at a time)
2021-04-04T15:58:33 < jadew> to make sure it doesn't messes up the lettering
2021-04-04T15:59:20 < jadew> I'm really pissed off about the calibration :/
2021-04-04T15:59:32 < jadew> I spent days on it
2021-04-04T16:00:07 < jadew> somehow the stupid software manages to have some extra settings that are not stored with the profile
2021-04-04T16:00:19 < jadew> and I don't even remember which profile I used
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2021-04-04T16:13:37 < Steffanx> Poor jadew 
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2021-04-04T17:01:15  * Laurenceb is trying to use /dev/hidraw<x> on lunix
2021-04-04T17:01:26 < Laurenceb> I dont get how this is supposed to work
2021-04-04T17:01:35 < Laurenceb> it only gives an output when something changes?
2021-04-04T17:43:38 < zyp> jadew, better get some pci usb controller
2021-04-04T17:44:29 < qyx> :>
2021-04-04T17:45:45 < Steffanx> lol
2021-04-04T17:56:09 < jadew> zyp :)
2021-04-04T17:56:25 < jadew> I don't have any left, just PCI-e
2021-04-04T17:56:28 < jadew> and I think I will
2021-04-04T17:56:37 < jadew> they'll probably come in handy in the future too
2021-04-04T18:06:42 < Steffanx> maybe I misunderstood, but who uses usb ports in the inside? All my peripherals are on the outside.
2021-04-04T18:07:24 < Laurenceb> oh ok I get it, host polls the device
2021-04-04T18:08:52 < jadew> Steffanx, it's so you connect additional USB ports that the case has
2021-04-04T18:09:11 < jadew> I have 6 extra USB outputs on the front
2021-04-04T18:09:19 < jadew> 7, if you count the one on the card reader
2021-04-04T18:09:55 < jadew> also... my RAID is resyncing again, not sure what triggered it, but it's a stupid implementation
2021-04-04T18:10:34 < Steffanx> oh, knowning you a little im never sure what you are up to.. so that can confuse me a little :P
2021-04-04T18:10:58 < jadew> heh
2021-04-04T18:12:31 < jadew> it works better
2021-04-04T18:12:48 < Laurenceb> ok wtf > bRequest=129 
2021-04-04T18:12:53 < Laurenceb> what could that mean?
2021-04-04T18:12:53 < jadew> can't say it's a huge difference tho for normal use
2021-04-04T18:25:37 < karlp> whatever it wants to mean? in what context? for a class request, you can look at the clss docs, for vendor stuff, who knows?
2021-04-04T18:43:21 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Alexei Navalny!]
2021-04-04T18:58:23 < Laurenceb> ok I've got it
2021-04-04T18:58:36 < Laurenceb> this ss1629 is weird.. maybe
2021-04-04T18:59:01 < Laurenceb> there are two packets from the host
2021-04-04T18:59:26 < Laurenceb> ss1629 replies to the first with 4 bytes of data, as the descriptor says should be sent
2021-04-04T18:59:40 < Laurenceb> then it doesnt reply to the second packet from the host
2021-04-04T18:59:46 < Laurenceb> because nothing has changes?
2021-04-04T18:59:49 < Laurenceb> *changed
2021-04-04T19:00:17 < englishman> https://an.rsl.wustl.edu/help/Content/About%20the%20mission/MER/Instruments/MER%20Navcam.htm
2021-04-04T19:00:22 < englishman> i wonder why they use CCD
2021-04-04T19:00:49 < englishman> also why single wavelength filters are used so often
2021-04-04T19:03:52 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe linux broke it
2021-04-04T19:04:14 < Laurenceb> linux send set_idle with wValue=0
2021-04-04T19:06:14 -!- jadew [~rcc@unaffiliated/jadew] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-04-04T19:09:49 < Laurenceb> wtf filebin isnt working
2021-04-04T19:09:56 < Laurenceb> I'd upload the file otherwise
2021-04-04T19:10:52 < Laurenceb>  >network error
2021-04-04T19:12:11 < Laurenceb> oh wait I see whats happening
2021-04-04T19:12:24 < Laurenceb> wireshark cant see token packets
2021-04-04T19:13:14 < Laurenceb> 184	4.003757	host	6.4.3	USB	64	URB_INTERRUPT in
2021-04-04T19:13:28 < Laurenceb> 185	4.006983	6.4.3	host	USB	68	URB_INTERRUPT in
2021-04-04T19:13:38 < Laurenceb> ^32ms delay
2021-04-04T19:14:38 < Laurenceb> so sss1629 doesn't obey the set_idle command from lunix, just replies to ack anyway
2021-04-04T19:15:03 < Laurenceb> I should hook some buttons up to the gpio pins
2021-04-04T19:18:35 < fenugrec> ccd because cold maybe ?
2021-04-04T19:20:05 -!- jadew [~rcc@2a02:2f0a:b50a:6800:ca2a:14ff:fe58:c8c0] has joined ##stm32
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2021-04-04T19:20:50 < Laurenceb> is it possible ot overwrite HID polling interval from userspace in linux?
2021-04-04T19:21:06 < Laurenceb> I want a bit better than 32ms
2021-04-04T19:29:37 < jadew> zyp, any advice for someone planning a home NAS for the whole family? is it cheaper to buy some off the shelf solution or should I just start thinking about building it from scratch?
2021-04-04T19:37:39 < effractur> how much tech support do eyou want to do on it
2021-04-04T19:44:19 < Steffanx> Also depends on the needs. will it do more than storage etc.?
2021-04-04T19:44:43 < Steffanx> Like my NAS also plays plex media server/player
2021-04-04T19:51:09 < Steffanx> oh and it downloads movies/series automagically etc. 
2021-04-04T19:51:37 < Steffanx> but commercial NAS stuff can do that too (QNAP, Synology whatever..)
2021-04-04T19:52:32 < Steffanx> commercial = maybe more consumer stuff
2021-04-04T19:53:03 < jadew> sorry, had to reboot
2021-04-04T19:53:11 < jadew> effractur, close to 0 after I set it up
2021-04-04T19:53:44 < jadew> I just care about storage, but if I'm going to make it myself, I assume I can make it do a number of other stuff
2021-04-04T19:55:20 < Steffanx> Alright. :)
2021-04-04T19:55:58 < jadew> I mean... I don't mind spending a couple of days on setting things up
2021-04-04T19:56:37 < Steffanx> What will it be? Lunix and raid stuff? ZFS? Maybe Freenas?
2021-04-04T19:57:19 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-04T19:57:23 < jadew> and I figured maybe 10 disks?
2021-04-04T19:57:50 < jadew> then I can allocate slices of the total space to everyone
2021-04-04T19:58:08 < jadew> R2COM, maybe!
2021-04-04T19:58:17 < jadew> I would like to keep it in a closet somewhere
2021-04-04T19:58:27 < jadew> so it shouldn't get too hot
2021-04-04T20:01:20 < Steffanx> if only 10 TB of NVME was available.
2021-04-04T20:02:04 < jadew> yeah, not really sure how big it should be
2021-04-04T20:02:38 < Steffanx> and then you have super fast storage and a semi-slow ethernet connection.
2021-04-04T20:03:45 < jadew> that can be improved over time
2021-04-04T20:04:33 < jpa-> buy more disks as you go, they always just get cheaper + you'll spread out the failures also
2021-04-04T20:05:29 < jpa-> when accessing over home network, SSDs and NVMe are mostly wasted
2021-04-04T20:05:38 < BrainDamage> ^
2021-04-04T20:05:46 < jadew> but they would produce less heat, no?
2021-04-04T20:05:53 < Steffanx> but then you do have to pick a storage method that is easy expandable jpa-..
2021-04-04T20:05:54 < BrainDamage> it makes no sense to buy 10TB when you'll use only 2-3
2021-04-04T20:06:18 < jpa-> jadew: per disc maybe, per space not so sure
2021-04-04T20:06:30 < BrainDamage> Steffanx: LVM/ZFS/BTRFS pools
2021-04-04T20:06:48 < BrainDamage> adding one more disk or removing is pretty painless
2021-04-04T20:06:57 -!- ThatDamnRanga [~ThatDamnR@unaffiliated/wiretap] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-04-04T20:07:20 < BrainDamage> just pick a system with more slots than you plan to start with
2021-04-04T20:07:41 < BrainDamage> so eg 6 sata ports if you plan to use sata, or pcie if you plan to use nvme
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2021-04-04T20:13:04 < Steffanx> not entirely true BrainDamage . With ZFS you can add a vdev or replace an existing disk with a larger one. 
2021-04-04T20:13:14 < Steffanx> and i wouldnt call that entirely painless
2021-04-04T20:13:21 < Steffanx> or did this change in the meantime?
2021-04-04T20:14:29 < Steffanx> https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/8853 WIP i guess
2021-04-04T20:17:18 < BrainDamage> ok, painless for LVM and btrfs
2021-04-04T20:17:37 < BrainDamage> I can confirm personally for btrfs fwiw
2021-04-04T20:18:45 < Steffanx> :)
2021-04-04T20:20:48 < jpa-> or just use RAID1 and add in pairs :)
2021-04-04T20:37:52 < qyx> is there anyone having even 10gbps except zyp?
2021-04-04T20:51:11 < Steffanx> me.. at least i used to have it
2021-04-04T20:51:47 < Steffanx> but no switch. just NAS - PC.
2021-04-04T21:56:15 < Steffanx> https://www.arrow.com/en/products/stm32l162rdy6tr/stmicroelectronics someone needs some stm32s?
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2021-04-04T22:00:54 < qyx> l162? no, thanks
2021-04-04T22:01:27 < Steffanx> haha
2021-04-04T22:03:37 < qyx> zyp may sell his 100 pieces of L053 or whatever were those
2021-04-04T22:13:23 < zyp> l052
2021-04-04T22:14:00 < zyp> assuming dongs_ didn't use them or throw them out
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2021-04-04T23:04:26 < vegii> how pleasant is driving bare 7-seg LCDs?
2021-04-04T23:06:17 < effractur> if you have a controller to drive htem
2021-04-04T23:06:40 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-04T23:06:43 < vegii> stm8
2021-04-04T23:07:28 < effractur> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/CD00257713-.pdf
2021-04-04T23:07:49 < effractur> some of the stm8 have a buildin lcd driver
2021-04-04T23:09:20  * vegii looks around a pile of aliexpress envelopes
2021-04-04T23:10:47 < effractur> you can probaly also bitbang it 
2021-04-04T23:10:50 < effractur> but that is a bit more work
2021-04-04T23:13:20  * vegii finds a STM32L011...
2021-04-04T23:13:25 < vegii> no LCD driver
2021-04-04T23:16:26 < zyp> l0x3 have
2021-04-04T23:16:45 < vegii> got some more micros on the way
2021-04-04T23:17:43 < vegii> STM8L052C6T6 is the one
2021-04-04T23:18:06 < qyx> 053 has
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--- Day changed Mon Apr 05 2021
2021-04-05T00:30:09 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-04-05T00:57:41 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-04-05T01:04:16 < kakium69> oh yeah
2021-04-05T01:06:48 < Steffanx> Oh no kakium69 
2021-04-05T01:07:01 < kakium69> time to have my own ##stm32
2021-04-05T01:07:30 < Steffanx> What's up in kakiland?
2021-04-05T01:07:44 < kakium69> warm
2021-04-05T01:08:01 < jadew> I already regret my choice for the mobo
2021-04-05T01:08:25 < Steffanx> Snow is expected here tomorrow kakium69 
2021-04-05T01:08:29 < jadew> mostly because of the memory limit
2021-04-05T01:08:39 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [shutting down]
2021-04-05T01:09:00 < Steffanx> 64 GB isn't enough?
2021-04-05T01:09:19 < jadew> it might not be... I'm at 25 GB already and not even doing that much
2021-04-05T01:09:41 < jadew> it's the same thing I had yesterday
2021-04-05T01:09:57 < Steffanx> Or maybe you are doing "that much"
2021-04-05T01:10:33 < kakium69> jadew: applications and os tend to use more as you provide more
2021-04-05T01:10:50 < jadew> maybe, I hope that once I start getting creative I don't have to start closing tabs
2021-04-05T01:10:56 < kakium69> especially chrome
2021-04-05T01:11:58 < Steffanx> Come on... its "only" 25GB of the 64 available 
2021-04-05T01:12:25 < Steffanx> I think if chrome is the issue with to many tabs open  you have other issues
2021-04-05T01:12:43 < qyx> huh what are you doing
2021-04-05T01:12:46 < jadew> no, it's not, but that's what you normally go after when you need some memory :)
2021-04-05T01:12:49 < Steffanx> Learn to bookmark or whatever.
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2021-04-05T01:13:30 < Steffanx> I have 32 GB and NEVER ran into issues. Unless semi-intentionally with vms
2021-04-05T01:13:50 < kakium69> I have 16GB
2021-04-05T01:13:52 < qyx> I had 8 and hit the limit only once
2021-04-05T01:14:06 < qyx> with hundreds of tabs in firefox
2021-04-05T01:14:26 < qyx> maybe your keil with altium consume your memory
2021-04-05T01:15:15 < jadew> maybe my idea of what's reasonable is too distorted and I'm already in some type of worst case scenario
2021-04-05T01:15:33 < jadew> except I was going to allocate 20 GB to a database, and didn't even do that yet
2021-04-05T01:15:34 < Steffanx> Letting SEGGER ozone run over night with no power on the target might cause issues as well. Ozone has a memory leak here and there
2021-04-05T01:15:56 < Steffanx> Get a database server jadew :)
2021-04-05T01:16:17 < jadew> crossed my mind, but $$
2021-04-05T01:16:26 < kakium69> you know there is no sufficient amount of memory if memory leaks are considered
2021-04-05T01:16:28 < Steffanx> What on earth is this database?
2021-04-05T01:16:49 < jadew> it's a database that normally runs on 80 GB of memory :P
2021-04-05T01:16:56 < Steffanx> Ms Exchange?
2021-04-05T01:17:16 < jadew> no, it's a customer's DB
2021-04-05T01:17:52 < jadew> 10s of millions of entries
2021-04-05T01:17:52 < Steffanx> Jadew to customer: "Get me a server mate"
2021-04-05T01:18:32 < BrainDamage> it's likely cheaper to just rent one in a datacenter
2021-04-05T01:18:52 < jadew> not really
2021-04-05T01:18:59  * qyx looks at jadew suspiciously
2021-04-05T01:19:27 < jadew> when you get to that size, you'll get your money back in ~3 months if you just build one
2021-04-05T01:19:27 < qyx> is the customer collecting facebook data of 0.5b of people?
2021-04-05T01:19:30 < Steffanx> Yes your name is in there too qyx
2021-04-05T01:20:00 < jadew> qyx, no, but it offers services to many users
2021-04-05T01:21:21 < jadew> regarding my remark about the price - it's obviously not something you'd want to do for production tho
2021-04-05T01:21:53 < jadew> because what you get in a datacenter is going to be much more reliable
2021-04-05T01:22:24 < jadew> and there's going to be lackey there to swap out broken SSDs when one stops working
2021-04-05T01:23:36 < kakium69> you might want ECC too
2021-04-05T01:24:16 < jadew> I don't remember if that was even in the offer for this particular server
2021-04-05T01:24:29 < jadew> is that common?
2021-04-05T01:25:53 < kakium69> for your personal computer
2021-04-05T01:26:13 < Steffanx> I7-9700 doesn't do ecc
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2021-04-05T01:28:29 < karlp> 10mill entries, even at 1k/entry is still only 10GB. what on _earth_ are you doing that you're _self hosting, at home_ that database, that it needs the performance response that you need to keep it all in ram, and you're thinkg of this as "a second job for this home nas machine" ?!
2021-04-05T01:29:02 < jadew> karlp, I have to optimize it :)
2021-04-05T01:29:17 < Steffanx> I read it as its a copy of the database. Not the actual thing
2021-04-05T01:29:24 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-05T01:29:43 < karlp> even less reason to insiste on keeping it all in memory.
2021-04-05T01:29:51 < Steffanx> True
2021-04-05T01:30:35 < jadew> I don't want to waste time
2021-04-05T01:30:58 < jadew> even simple queries take a long time on large databases
2021-04-05T01:32:10 < karlp> if this is important, dedicate machinery for it.
2021-04-05T01:32:26 < karlp> using it as a sideways complain about your dual purpose machine is crayz talk
2021-04-05T01:32:58 < karlp> and if you're just doing optimization work, you can get query reporting just as usefully, regardless of whether it's in ram or has to fetch.
2021-04-05T01:33:03 < jadew> well, it's a work machine, I can do/try any number of things on it
2021-04-05T01:33:25 < jadew> if my main job would be to deal with huge databases, sure, I'd get one or two
2021-04-05T01:33:43 < jadew> but it isn't, it's just something I have to deal with sometimes
2021-04-05T01:35:27 < jadew> I think that's the point of a workstation really
2021-04-05T01:35:33 < jadew> to be able to do many things well
2021-04-05T01:36:40 < jadew> maybe tomorrow I'll want to try out an architecture with 5-7 servers
2021-04-05T01:37:26 < karlp> ok, but particularly for some things like, "I want to try out a 10-20GB database server while I tweak something" is _veyr much_ something you can just rent one for a bit.
2021-04-05T01:37:30 < karlp> I'm all for having a good workstation
2021-04-05T01:37:43 < karlp> but deciding that it's all shit because you're dedicating 20GB to a db permanetnly?
2021-04-05T01:38:09 < jadew> I didn't say it's all shit, I'm just worried that it might not be as good as I hoped it would be
2021-04-05T01:39:24 < Laurenceb> reee stupid lunix
2021-04-05T01:39:34 < kakium69> lurencer
2021-04-05T01:39:35 < jadew> I haven't had this much memory on a desktop before, and given that I have all sorts of crazy ideas, seeing it using 25 GB on nothing that demanding, makes me thing that maybe I should have gone for 128 GB
2021-04-05T01:39:52 < jadew> *think
2021-04-05T01:39:53 < Laurenceb> >keyboard, mouse, and joystick HID can have polling interval set from userland, but other HID types cant
2021-04-05T01:40:16 < kakium69> why you are making traction control using strain gauges read by usb headset chipset and you also need usb hid?
2021-04-05T01:40:20 < karlp> are you sure it's _using_ 25gig and not just using what it can for caches? 
2021-04-05T01:40:24 < karlp> because that's what most os's do.
2021-04-05T01:40:35 < Laurenceb> kakium69: cuz I like crazy hacks
2021-04-05T01:40:36 < jadew> karlp, I'm not
2021-04-05T01:40:47 < kakium69> Laurenceb: why you need usb hid?
2021-04-05T01:42:35 < jadew> is that the "Cached" section in the task manager?
2021-04-05T01:43:12 < kakium69> sounds like it
2021-04-05T01:43:43 < jadew> yeah, it does
2021-04-05T01:43:47 < jadew> 14 GB
2021-04-05T01:44:30 < karlp> Ive no idea what windows calls it, but yeah, unused ram is wasted ram, so "everything" will use what it can for the most part.
2021-04-05T01:44:57 < jadew> well, if that's what that is, then it's not that bad
2021-04-05T01:45:24 < karlp> relax, don't worry, have a home brew....
2021-04-05T01:46:28 < jadew> eh, if I end up needing more, I'll just pass it to my son
2021-04-05T01:47:04 < jadew> he's upset anyway because my CPU is better than his and I have more RAM
2021-04-05T01:47:39 < kakium69> you have son?
2021-04-05T01:47:48 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-05T01:48:52 < kakium69> o.o
2021-04-05T01:49:22 < jadew> I'm almost old, what did you expect?
2021-04-05T01:51:41 < kakium69> paps jadew
2021-04-05T01:52:39 < BrainDamage> most active people in this channel do
2021-04-05T01:57:16 < kakium69> but then I remember people usually have family by my age
2021-04-05T01:57:51 < BrainDamage> it starts to get you when friends start posting pics of their kids
2021-04-05T01:59:32 < kakium69> my friends have latelly been coupled
2021-04-05T02:00:12 < jadew> I never got to experience that, because I was the first in my circle to have kids
2021-04-05T02:00:46 < jadew> what I experience was that everyone stopped calling me when they went out afterwards
2021-04-05T02:00:50 < BrainDamage> I thought you'd say that you don't have friends :p
2021-04-05T02:00:54 < jadew> *experienced
2021-04-05T02:00:57 < jadew> well, not anymore
2021-04-05T02:01:02 < BrainDamage> ah, close enough
2021-04-05T02:01:42 < kakium69> I expected not to have friends anymore
2021-04-05T02:02:05 < kakium69> but I get invited anyhow
2021-04-05T02:02:12 < kakium69> I'm the odd one out
2021-04-05T02:03:09 < jadew> people with kids can pair with pretty much everyone, because they're the problem :)
2021-04-05T02:04:55 < jadew> if you're on vacation with someone with kids, it's very unlikely that you will screw up their visiting plans
2021-04-05T02:05:26 < kakium69> I was just about to say I will not be involved
2021-04-05T02:06:04 < kakium69> maybe I will meet the dads sometimes when there is quiet moments
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2021-04-05T02:30:50 < vegii> Yay, the LCD was easy to figure out. Turns out I just had to adjust the signal level to get the contrast in the right ballpark. https://i.imgur.com/ZZdznp1.png
2021-04-05T02:30:50 < vegii> cc Sadale
2021-04-05T02:35:31 < vegii> ...but now I'm not sure what to do next. I'd like to drive it with an stm8l052c6. How do I figure out where to find relevant appnotes for using the embedded LCD driver if they aren't linked, and stuff like that? ST datasheets are an adventure game.
2021-04-05T02:37:51 < vegii> also, how straightforward does it look for software?
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2021-04-05T04:29:14 < Laurenceb> wew wtf
2021-04-05T04:29:27 < Laurenceb> sss1629 alternates device id
2021-04-05T04:29:49 < Laurenceb> each time you plug it in you get an alternating device id
2021-04-05T04:30:05 < Laurenceb> I mean product code
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2021-04-05T05:14:59 < t4nk_freenode> well, nehow, as I was saying.... that particular situation was how Steffanx managed to gain my utter contempt
2021-04-05T05:15:17 < t4nk_freenode> but... enough said.. he's back!
2021-04-05T05:15:51 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*, okok, I'm Mad!
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2021-04-05T05:16:45 < t4nk_freenode> was gonna start a new project, was all ready to go.... site where I need my info from.. DOwn... all night
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2021-04-05T05:17:15 < t4nk_freenode> I should buy a lottery ticket.
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2021-04-05T05:34:03 < Sadale> vegii, I'm not quite familiar with LCD. AFAIK, you'd need to config stuffs like voltage level, duty cycle, etc. etc, which you have to figure out by reverse engineering as well (unless you've got the specs of the LCD,. which you don't)
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2021-04-05T10:27:34 < qyx> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HI-LINK-HLK-7621-Gigabit-Ethernet-Router-Module-with-Board-Support-OPENWRT/274542525629
2021-04-05T10:27:56 < qyx> I found that MT7621 module, much PCI-e, USB 3 and stuff
2021-04-05T10:28:08 < qyx> apparently openwrt compatible
2021-04-05T10:28:27 < qyx> looks sparse
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2021-04-05T11:54:30 < qyx> vegii: driving LCD on L0 is mostly easy
2021-04-05T11:54:35 < qyx> beware of the errata
2021-04-05T11:54:49 < qyx> IIRC I2C2 is not working when the LCD driver is enabled
2021-04-05T11:54:59 < qyx> but only on a specific gpio
2021-04-05T11:55:22 < qyx> which I managed to hit with my luck
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2021-04-05T13:19:21 < qyx> Moreover, the MT7621A applies low-power technology and can fit into 2/4 layers PCB design with good power dissipation
2021-04-05T13:19:26 < qyx> how so
2021-04-05T13:19:31 < qyx> BGA with 0.65 mm pitch
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2021-04-05T15:55:16 < karlp> whee, new fissure opened
2021-04-05T15:59:21 < jpa-> is iceland expanding again?
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2021-04-05T16:11:47 < karlp> upwards at the moment.
2021-04-05T16:12:10 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-04-05T16:12:28 < Laurenceb> anyone here know why python could suddenly say it doesnt have a module installed?
2021-04-05T16:13:06 < karlp> the live stream has been moved over to point at th enew one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-9QzIcr3c
2021-04-05T16:13:23 < karlp> pretty cool watching it form from such an early stage.
2021-04-05T16:13:45 < Laurenceb> I closed down python and restarted it, now there is no module usb
2021-04-05T16:13:52 < karlp> different python?
2021-04-05T16:13:55 < karlp> were you using venvs?
2021-04-05T16:14:08 < karlp> do you need to re-activate again?
2021-04-05T16:14:11 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-04-05T16:14:16 < Laurenceb> its the same python3
2021-04-05T16:14:22 < karlp> are you _sure_ ? :)
2021-04-05T16:14:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-05T16:14:36 < Laurenceb> I had logged in and out whilst the previous session was running
2021-04-05T16:14:36 < karlp> idon'tbelieveyou.gif
2021-04-05T16:14:43 < Laurenceb> that probably explains it
2021-04-05T16:15:22 < Laurenceb> pip says its installed ok
2021-04-05T16:17:08 < Laurenceb> hmm had to be done with sudo, weird
2021-04-05T16:18:11 < karlp> that sounds like a system python, not a venv at least.
2021-04-05T16:18:17 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-05T16:18:31 < karlp> so you might have more happiness instally pyusb from your packager not via sudo pip, but hey, your bed.
2021-04-05T16:19:50 < BrainDamage> in my experience sudo pip is a recipe for pain
2021-04-05T16:19:57 < karlp> mine too.
2021-04-05T16:19:58 < BrainDamage> pip in home dir/venv is ok
2021-04-05T16:20:04 < karlp> but hey, lolrecen can lol
2021-04-05T16:21:43 < Laurenceb> hmm ok maybe I'll fix it laters
2021-04-05T16:21:46 < Laurenceb> works for now
2021-04-05T16:22:02 < Laurenceb> pyusb itself doesnt tho...
2021-04-05T16:22:11 < Laurenceb> >pipe error
2021-04-05T16:22:35 < karlp> pipe error means you and the device disagreed on read lengths / write lengths (normally, IME)
2021-04-05T16:22:47 < karlp> but I
2021-04-05T16:22:50 < karlp> m no zyp
2021-04-05T16:23:01 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-04-05T16:23:07 < karlp> you can
2021-04-05T16:23:23 < karlp> t just arbitrarily read/write whatever you want and have the device do the same, they need to match.
2021-04-05T16:23:45 < karlp> if you try reading more than the device wrote, you get a pipe error for instance, iirc.
2021-04-05T16:23:54 < karlp> or if you read less, one of them at least.
2021-04-05T16:25:05 < Laurenceb> dev.ctrl_transfer(0x21, 0x0a, 0x0100, 0x0003, None)#this should set the refresh rate to the max of 250Hz without data changing
2021-04-05T16:25:12 < Laurenceb> ^thats where the error is
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2021-04-05T16:27:03 < aandrew> Laurenceb: fun. I'm going to be tracking down a >64b bulk IN transfer failing bug
2021-04-05T16:27:15 < aandrew> IIRC this is a known thing in the ST USB library 
2021-04-05T16:27:33 < Laurenceb> aandrew: this is to an off the shelf usb device
2021-04-05T16:27:51 < aandrew> the driver basically chunks up the transfer into 64b chunks becuase that's the largest transfer unit, but then for whatever reason doesn't queue up the next 64+b
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2021-04-05T16:36:41 < Laurenceb> hmf
2021-04-05T16:36:50 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to pad the packets with 0x00
2021-04-05T16:37:09 < Laurenceb> wireshark shows lunix packets are padded
2021-04-05T16:39:12 < Laurenceb> it would help if there was more documentation for pyusb
2021-04-05T16:40:32 < Laurenceb> this could be anything :(
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2021-04-05T16:50:10 < Laurenceb> this is why high level code is a bad idea
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2021-04-05T17:00:36 < Laurenceb> so is the pipe error likely coming from lower level code on my machine?
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2021-04-05T17:15:21 < Laurenceb> oh crap
2021-04-05T17:15:25 < Laurenceb> its the device itself
2021-04-05T17:27:06 < Laurenceb> NAK from the device
2021-04-05T17:27:39 < Laurenceb> it doenst like my haxoring
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2021-04-05T17:40:09 < Steffanx> lol Laurenceb 
2021-04-05T17:57:19 < boddax> just checking bus timing operation datashit with real measurement of this selfmade dev board it look not correct if i comare to datasheet ..right? https://i.ibb.co/vX2rJzN/TIMING.jpg
2021-04-05T17:58:17 < boddax> looks the RD running faster than A0
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2021-04-05T18:03:58 < jpa-> boddax: if it is an asynchronous ram, it doesn't really matter
2021-04-05T18:04:58 < jpa-> just need to observe the delay from the point of time when signals are valid to the point where the output is read
2021-04-05T18:05:43 < boddax> ah ok jpa- thanks for explain
2021-04-05T18:07:06 < boddax> let me check data+rw timings
2021-04-05T18:13:18 < boddax> yes i have check the data is included inside RD valid timing
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2021-04-05T18:35:44 < Laurenceb> ha
2021-04-05T18:35:54 < Laurenceb> GPIO ctreaming at 330Hz
2021-04-05T18:36:04 < Laurenceb> fairly fast but I still need faster
2021-04-05T18:36:23 < Laurenceb> better than 31Hz rawhid update rate
2021-04-05T18:41:55 < aandrew> I saw 330MHz and was like holy fuck
2021-04-05T18:47:07 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-04-05T18:47:16 < Laurenceb> this code is mega lame tho
2021-04-05T18:47:27 < Laurenceb> as the python loop isnt synced to usb frame intervals
2021-04-05T18:47:42 < Laurenceb> I need a way to disable the timeout
2021-04-05T18:47:55 < Laurenceb> timeout=-1 is just the same as 0, gives infinite timeout
2021-04-05T19:00:29 < jpa-> what library are you using? does it poll automatically in background, or does it issue USB read requests only during the timeout?
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2021-04-05T19:19:50 < karlp> plain pyusb is a bit difficult to queue up async transfer reqs with libusb, there's a python-libusb1 that makes it easier, but doing gadget0 bulk read sink7source perf testing, it makes zero difference.
2021-04-05T19:20:25 < karlp> at least for USB-FS speeds.
2021-04-05T19:20:40 < karlp> I could easily be convinced it was more compelling at USB-HS speeds.
2021-04-05T19:23:41 < karlp> cant seem to find my code where I did that though.
2021-04-05T19:27:19 < karlp> ahh, here it is: https://paste.centos.org/view/5a02a5d0
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2021-04-05T19:29:01 < karlp> it's a lot more "use the libusb1 docs" rather than pyusb's "we made it pythonic" api
2021-04-05T19:29:05 < Laurenceb> jpa-: pyusb
2021-04-05T19:29:12 < Laurenceb> I think it uses libusb
2021-04-05T19:29:24 < karlp> of course it does.
2021-04-05T19:29:28 < karlp> duh.
2021-04-05T19:29:36 < karlp> well, on linux ;)
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2021-04-05T19:31:27 < karlp> I love bug reports that dance aroudn saying what they mean, but still manage to include the scripted, "pull this trigger to bring down servers" line in it :) https://github.com/eclipse/mosquitto/issues/2163
2021-04-05T19:56:07 < brdb> for stm32s with the CRC periph, is this useful for say something like ensuring important data can be checked against and then manually keep a sort of "shadow" register to replace it if it detects an issue?
2021-04-05T19:56:57 < brdb> thinking in terms of cosmic rays and automotive applications, something like throttle position value -- how would one go about verifying this stays valid and true
2021-04-05T19:58:23 < boddax> Cracki ?
2021-04-05T20:02:38 < mawk> boddax: go in ##stm32-offtopic 
2021-04-05T20:02:40 < mawk> to talk to him
2021-04-05T20:04:52 < boddax> lol
2021-04-05T20:07:15 < BrainDamage> brdb: for safety critical programs, read the misra standard
2021-04-05T20:07:44 < BrainDamage> the most basic check you can do is mirroring, for every variable, write it twice, negated
2021-04-05T20:08:09 < BrainDamage> when you read, read both and sum, if the sum isn't 0, data is corrupted
2021-04-05T20:08:29 < BrainDamage> what do to in that case is contextuall
2021-04-05T20:10:29 < BrainDamage> you can use all sort of forward error correction codes btw, but then you'll spend quite some time calculating the code's validity, at which point the error can be injected during processing
2021-04-05T20:19:05 < brdb> thats some solid info BrainDamage thanks
2021-04-05T20:21:04 < aandrew> I have a couple misra pdfs if you want me to make them available
2021-04-05T20:21:29 < aandrew> there's also an stm32-specific app note for safety critical software design
2021-04-05T20:23:22 < zyp> brdb, if you're targetting formal functional safety, it's probably easier to change to a microcontroller with hardware error checking like ti hercules
2021-04-05T20:24:30 < zyp> then you've got ECC on all memory and two cpus executing the same code in lockstep and compared to ensure they agree
2021-04-05T20:25:19 < brdb> if it comes down to that I may explore it, but familiarity with stm32s makes me lean towards that
2021-04-05T20:25:32 < fenugrec> some stm32s have ECC RAM I believe
2021-04-05T20:25:38 < fenugrec> g474 ? probably others
2021-04-05T20:25:46 < brdb> so they do: https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/functionalsafety.html
2021-04-05T20:26:03 < brdb> G0, G4, H7, L4/L4+, L5, and the WB
2021-04-05T20:26:33 < fenugrec> huh even the lowly f0 has RAM parity
2021-04-05T20:26:36 < brdb> I have yet to mess around with the wireless capable STM32s to see if I could incorporate that into one unit instead of having to rely on a separate piece of hardware (ESPs) and separate toolchain for those applications
2021-04-05T20:29:21 < BrainDamage> unrelated https://i.imgur.com/AGwFgcu.jpg
2021-04-05T20:29:21 < Laurenceb> gah
2021-04-05T20:29:34 < Laurenceb> >pyusb uses only blocking transfers
2021-04-05T20:29:36 < Laurenceb> useless
2021-04-05T20:32:28 < Laurenceb> https://pypi.org/project/libusb/
2021-04-05T20:32:32 < Laurenceb> looks suitable
2021-04-05T20:33:36 < zyp> is that the vpelletier one?
2021-04-05T20:33:52 < zyp> hmm, no
2021-04-05T20:34:16 < zyp> https://github.com/vpelletier/python-libusb1
2021-04-05T20:34:23 < zyp> I've used this before for async transfers
2021-04-05T20:36:19 < Steffanx> luckily karlp didnt already recommend python-libusb1 before.
2021-04-05T20:36:54 < zyp> ah, I haven't been following
2021-04-05T20:37:04 < Steffanx> nah, i mean: Laurenceb hasnt been listening again.
2021-04-05T20:37:13 < zyp> also true
2021-04-05T20:37:29 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-04-05T20:37:39 < Laurenceb> itd help if there was some documentation on it :(
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2021-04-05T20:54:49 < Laurenceb> definition of zero: the amount of documentation
2021-04-05T20:56:38 < Laurenceb> shit why couldnt everything be as nice as octave6
2021-04-05T20:56:51 < Laurenceb> python is such a mess
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2021-04-05T20:57:12 < Laurenceb> >people willingly use numpy
2021-04-05T20:57:43 < zyp> uh, looks fully documented to me
2021-04-05T20:58:38 < zyp> apart from the stuff that are just plain bindings
2021-04-05T20:58:44 < zyp> https://github.com/vpelletier/python-libusb1#documentation
2021-04-05T21:02:55 < Steffanx> Last time I used numpy (and scipy) it worked good enough 
2021-04-05T21:04:51 < Laurenceb> yeah I want html documentation
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2021-04-05T21:15:24 < BrainDamage> numpy is well documented
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2021-04-05T21:20:59 < Steffanx> Laurenceb: right click -> view source ;)
2021-04-05T21:27:56 < Laurenceb> nice, segfault
2021-04-05T21:28:23 < qyx> sounds like mint
2021-04-05T21:28:32 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/XihEX4Qu
2021-04-05T21:30:51 < Laurenceb> no usb traffic before it segfaults, but a long delay of ~4 seconds
2021-04-05T21:41:27 < t4nk_freenode> python... pfwehehe
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2021-04-05T21:42:20 < Laurenceb> gah
2021-04-05T21:42:28 < Laurenceb> it fails if I go line by line
2021-04-05T21:42:43 < Laurenceb> sb1.USBErrorAccess: LIBUSB_ERROR_ACCESS [-3
2021-04-05T21:43:22 < t4nk_freenode> that may not be too surprising?
2021-04-05T21:44:08 < t4nk_freenode> gotta be pretty quick to clickydiclick usb traffic
2021-04-05T21:45:41 < qyx> Laurenceb: not enuff permissions?
2021-04-05T21:46:52 < Laurenceb> yeah I needed sudo
2021-04-05T21:46:57 < Laurenceb> but its still failing
2021-04-05T21:49:06 < Laurenceb>   raise __STATUS_TO_EXCEPTION_DICT.get(value, __USBError)(value)
2021-04-05T21:49:06 < Laurenceb> usb1.USBErrorIO: LIBUSB_ERROR_IO [-1]
2021-04-05T21:51:04 < Laurenceb> no data on the bus
2021-04-05T21:58:45 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe I should try c as its better documented
2021-04-05T21:59:19 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/9SSeDeam
2021-04-05T21:59:24 < Laurenceb> I'm out oif ideas
2021-04-05T22:06:08 < fenugrec> huh, just managed to kill a BAS16 diode, rated 100V, in a (fused) 30Vrms half-bridge rectifier. Vpk=43V, so 86V applied on the alternate halfcycle... guess that was too close
2021-04-05T22:10:26 < Laurenceb> looks like same error even if I pass insane arguments to the submit function
2021-04-05T22:14:20 < fenugrec> on second thought, peak current probably killed it. Forgot to measure that, heh
2021-04-05T22:17:37 < Laurenceb> does anyone know if there is a way to set verbose output for libusb1 in python?
2021-04-05T22:18:09 < boddax> Laurenceb is algol that language you paste ?
2021-04-05T22:18:22 < Laurenceb> boddax: python
2021-04-05T22:18:52 < effractur> Laurenceb: set LIBUSB_DEBUG
2021-04-05T22:18:58 < effractur> the enviroment varible that is
2021-04-05T22:19:14 < Laurenceb> using sys?
2021-04-05T22:19:39 < effractur> are you on windows
2021-04-05T22:19:41 < effractur> or linux
2021-04-05T22:19:45 < effractur> or macos?
2021-04-05T22:20:10 < Laurenceb> linux
2021-04-05T22:20:17 < effractur> just do 
2021-04-05T22:20:19 < effractur> export LIBUSB_DEBUG=4
2021-04-05T22:20:24 < effractur> and then run your python stuff
2021-04-05T22:20:30 < effractur> or do
2021-04-05T22:20:37 < effractur> LIBUSB_DEBUG=4 python .....
2021-04-05T22:20:49 < Laurenceb> k
2021-04-05T22:20:56 < effractur> that should log stuff to stderr
2021-04-05T22:21:14 < effractur> assuming the lib is compiled with this feature enabled 
2021-04-05T22:21:25 < Laurenceb> hmm nope nothing
2021-04-05T22:21:35 < Laurenceb> just the useless python errors
2021-04-05T22:23:47 < effractur> ah no
2021-04-05T22:23:58 < Laurenceb> this is why pc development is just a plain bad idea
2021-04-05T22:24:01 < Laurenceb> undocumented hell
2021-04-05T22:24:10 < effractur> you can call the set_option
2021-04-05T22:24:47 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/GGKHQtpC
2021-04-05T22:25:02 < Laurenceb> really? how?
2021-04-05T22:26:45 < effractur> Laurenceb: so there is a setDebug
2021-04-05T22:26:46 < effractur> funtion
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2021-04-05T22:27:09 < effractur> that you can call on the usbContext
2021-04-05T22:27:11 < effractur> and set that to 4
2021-04-05T22:27:13 < Laurenceb> ah
2021-04-05T22:27:35 < effractur> but only if lbusb is compiled with debugging enabled ofcourse
2021-04-05T22:27:49 < Laurenceb> ah perfect, thanks
2021-04-05T22:27:55 < Laurenceb> tons of debug info
2021-04-05T22:28:07 < effractur> it seems that on init it sets it self to 0
2021-04-05T22:28:12 < effractur> so thats is why the env did not work
2021-04-05T22:28:21 < effractur> https://github.com/vpelletier/python-libusb1/blob/master/usb1/libusb1.py#L701
2021-04-05T22:28:25 < effractur> there are the differnt flags
2021-04-05T22:28:57 < Laurenceb> sheet
2021-04-05T22:29:10 < Laurenceb> looks like libusb may be "smart"
2021-04-05T22:29:17 < Laurenceb> its parsing the descriptor
2021-04-05T22:29:34 < Laurenceb> that could lead to issues as I'm doing something haxorish
2021-04-05T22:30:27 < Laurenceb> bbl, food tiem
2021-04-05T22:30:43 < effractur> and what does wireshart show?
2021-04-05T22:31:08 < effractur> like inspecting the usb pcakets there
2021-04-05T22:43:51 < Laurenceb> effractur: theres no data on the bus
2021-04-05T22:45:45 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/r0yk2ApW
2021-04-05T22:46:07 < Laurenceb> wait WTF
2021-04-05T22:46:21 < Laurenceb> >[submit_bulk_transfer] submiturb failed error -1 errno=16
2021-04-05T22:46:26 < Laurenceb> yeah no wonder it failed
2021-04-05T22:46:31 < Laurenceb> >bulk
2021-04-05T22:51:52 < Laurenceb> transfer.getType()
2021-04-05T22:51:52 < Laurenceb> 3
2021-04-05T22:51:55 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-04-05T22:52:03 < effractur> so your code is just wrong :p
2021-04-05T22:57:46 < Laurenceb> I cant see it
2021-04-05T22:58:05 < Laurenceb> usb1.TRANSFER_TYPE_INTERRUPT
2021-04-05T22:58:05 < Laurenceb> 3
2021-04-05T22:58:09 < Laurenceb> looks fine then
2021-04-05T23:00:22 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/libusb/libusb/issues/860
2021-04-05T23:00:35 < Laurenceb> looks like the debug calls everything a bulk transfer
2021-04-05T23:01:15 < Laurenceb> maybe it needs to be declared as HID
2021-04-05T23:03:03 < effractur> so what are you talking to?
2021-04-05T23:04:42 < Laurenceb> usb audio device, ss1629
2021-04-05T23:04:48 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to read the gpio
2021-04-05T23:04:52 < Laurenceb> it works with pyusb
2021-04-05T23:05:05 < Laurenceb> but thats using blocking io, so slow
2021-04-05T23:05:06 < antto> snek-you-es-bee
2021-04-05T23:05:21 < Laurenceb> I could only get to 330Hz refresh rate
2021-04-05T23:10:01 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-04-05T23:10:11 < Laurenceb> all attempted communication fails with error16
2021-04-05T23:10:20 < Laurenceb> something is wrong with my setup I think
2021-04-05T23:16:06 < Laurenceb> this looks pro  https://programtalk.com/vs2/python/14345/steamcontroller/src/__init__.py/
2021-04-05T23:16:24 < antto> looks like a snek to me
2021-04-05T23:21:27 < Laurenceb> ooh that maybe worked
2021-04-05T23:21:32 < Laurenceb> killed muh cpu
2021-04-05T23:21:37 < Steffanx> Someone had fun writing lines > 77
2021-04-05T23:21:59 < Laurenceb> bazillion megabytes of debug info
2021-04-05T23:22:38 < Laurenceb> yeah I think its working, steam controller codez ftw
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2021-04-05T23:55:36 < Laurenceb> ooh nice, GPIO @ 490Hz
2021-04-05T23:55:48 < Laurenceb> still badly syncing to the USB frames tho
2021-04-05T23:56:26 < Laurenceb> I need to find a way to queue the requests...
--- Day changed Tue Apr 06 2021
2021-04-06T00:05:17 < Laurenceb> this is harder than it looks, much easier on a micro
2021-04-06T00:13:27 < Laurenceb> argg wtf
2021-04-06T00:13:34 < Laurenceb> >even libusb has a timeout
2021-04-06T00:13:55 < Laurenceb> inb4 I have to use an stm32f4 with otg to get the usb to do what I want
2021-04-06T00:14:15 < Laurenceb> what part of asynchronous code dont they understand
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2021-04-06T00:18:59 < Laurenceb> looks like the sss1629 can do 1khz anyway
2021-04-06T00:19:24 < Laurenceb> as might be expected as it seems to be doing usb in hardware 
2021-04-06T00:19:44 < Laurenceb> vhdl codez
2021-04-06T00:20:30 < Steffanx> It must be easy enough to move your codes to C
2021-04-06T00:21:05 < Steffanx> Wonder if maybe HIDAPI has some tricks for you, but probably not
2021-04-06T00:24:23 < karlp> lolrence, it's only usb-fs, I'm not at all convinced the "blocking" (synchronous) api is the problem....
2021-04-06T00:25:09 < karlp> moving the host to C is almost definitely not going to "fix" anything.
2021-04-06T00:25:40 < karlp> it's onyl a single read reading usb-fs, I guarantee it's not being held up by python being slower than c
2021-04-06T00:26:06 < Steffanx> But on his old pc you never know 😉
2021-04-06T00:26:24 < Steffanx> Or what else he messed up
2021-04-06T00:26:33 < karlp> wel,l yeah, but C won't fix that either...
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2021-04-06T00:27:23 < antto> wut, is he using snek for realtime audio?
2021-04-06T00:27:29 < Steffanx> No. 
2021-04-06T00:27:49 < Steffanx> Some gpio stuff the ic also has 
2021-04-06T00:28:41 < karlp> even if he was... even audiophoolery is only what, 96k?
2021-04-06T00:29:13 < karlp> and he's j ust reading gpios from usb sound card.
2021-04-06T00:34:09 < Steffanx> Not even sure if I want to know why. Anyway 
2021-04-06T00:34:53 < t4nk_freenode> hey.. I've started using this 'C2' hoof soldering tip... I like it ;)
2021-04-06T00:35:17 < t4nk_freenode> never used any other tips than a normal pointy thingie
2021-04-06T00:36:09 < t4nk_freenode> I like how it can fit kilos and kilos of solder
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2021-04-06T01:40:33 < bitmask> fuck
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2021-04-06T02:51:40  * Laurenceb is trying to bitbang a barcode reader over sss1629 gpio
2021-04-06T03:06:25 < Laurenceb> up to 670Hz
2021-04-06T03:06:38 < Laurenceb> I think I'm breaking low level lunix usb
2021-04-06T03:06:57 < Laurenceb> weird semi random delays
2021-04-06T03:22:34 < dongs_> lunix
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2021-04-06T04:12:42 < kakium69> ubs
2021-04-06T04:12:47 < kakium69> usb
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2021-04-06T04:34:09 < upgrdman> damn, why are usb-c connector footprints ~all random
2021-04-06T04:34:29 < upgrdman> is there a more-common footprint for usb2.0 usb-c female connectors?
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2021-04-06T06:44:01 < dongs_> they are not random
2021-04-06T06:44:04 < dongs_> did you even zypsnips
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2021-04-06T07:10:33 < jpa-> i use USB4085 for through-hole version and DX07S016JA1R1500 for SMD version; but the location of the alignment & mounting pins varies a bit between otherwise similar footprint connectors
2021-04-06T07:10:52 < jpa-> one can get most SMD connectors to fit by making the mounting hole slots extra long
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2021-04-06T11:35:12 < Steffanx> Hows your isolator thingy , jpa- ?
2021-04-06T11:40:55 < jpa-> sitting on my shelf
2021-04-06T11:41:10 < jpa-> the more i test and characterize, the worse my specs become
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2021-04-06T11:47:26 < zyp> maybe you should have just released it right away :)
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2021-04-06T11:54:19 < Laurenceb> wtf happened to jfets
2021-04-06T11:54:28 < Laurenceb> everyone has stopped making them
2021-04-06T11:54:35 < Laurenceb> audiophools btfo'd
2021-04-06T11:57:47 < mawk> it's useless Laurenceb 
2021-04-06T11:57:52 < mawk> why would you use it
2021-04-06T11:58:23 < Laurenceb> very low noise preamps
2021-04-06T11:58:27 < Laurenceb> this is crazy
2021-04-06T11:58:46 < Laurenceb> about 80% of jfets are no longer manufactured, even stuff from 2014
2021-04-06T11:59:01 < Laurenceb> radio hams btfo'd
2021-04-06T11:59:37 < Laurenceb> I was going to make a jfet preamp for muh strain gauges
2021-04-06T11:59:44 < Laurenceb> but this isnt looking so good
2021-04-06T12:03:03 < mawk> depletion mode nfet then?
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2021-04-06T12:03:29 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-06T12:18:58 < Laurenceb> luckily this still exusts
2021-04-06T12:19:01 < Laurenceb> https://uk.farnell.com/on-semiconductor/mmbfj113/jfet-n-channel-35v-sot-23-3/dp/2453376
2021-04-06T12:31:15 < jpa-> zyp: probably; but i'm taking it more as a practice at this point
2021-04-06T12:38:00 < qyx> Laurenceb: 1 nv/rtHz no good?
2021-04-06T12:38:18 < Laurenceb> huh?
2021-04-06T12:38:49  * Laurenceb is aiming for a preamp that can run off mic phantom power
2021-04-06T12:39:42 < qyx> there is one with 1.1 nV noise from AD, sub 1 mA, 1V8
2021-04-06T12:39:58 < qyx> or maybe more, but I used that one for my loop antenna preamp
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2021-04-06T12:40:04 < qyx> forgot the model though
2021-04-06T12:40:14 < qyx> LT6233 or so
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2021-04-06T12:41:13 < qyx> yeah eaxctly that one
2021-04-06T12:41:20 < qyx> Low Noise Voltage: 1.9nV/√Hz
2021-04-06T12:41:21 < qyx> Low Supply Current: 1.2mA/Amp Max
2021-04-06T12:41:45 < qyx> 3 V min
2021-04-06T12:41:50 < qyx> I lied, sorry
2021-04-06T12:42:24 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-04-06T12:42:33 < Laurenceb> I'm worried about EMI demodulation too
2021-04-06T12:42:40 < Laurenceb> and it has to be phantom powered
2021-04-06T12:42:56 < Laurenceb> MMBFJ113 would almost work
2021-04-06T12:43:41 < jpa-> what is your phantom voltage?
2021-04-06T12:44:02 < jpa-> also, are you AC coupling your strain gauges?
2021-04-06T12:48:02 < Laurenceb> yeah AC coupled
2021-04-06T12:48:13 < Laurenceb> phantom supply looks like:
2021-04-06T12:48:40 < Laurenceb> 3.3V ->5.1K ->uF to gnd ->500ohm ->phantom out/input to ADC 
2021-04-06T12:48:52 < drzacek> hello there
2021-04-06T12:49:04 < Laurenceb> my original plan was to use a TF252 FET
2021-04-06T12:49:18 < Laurenceb> thats perfect for this, but no longer manufactured
2021-04-06T12:50:10 < drzacek> I want to add microSD card to my stm32 project - can't find info what cards are compatible? Can I just get any? sdhc/xc/whatever? size limit? 
2021-04-06T12:50:44 < Laurenceb> should be trivial to use <=4GB
2021-04-06T12:50:46 < rajkosto> that all depends on software
2021-04-06T12:51:05 < Laurenceb> over that should also be poss, maybe a little software faffing
2021-04-06T12:51:14 < rajkosto> does your stm32 have a hardware SD controller or what
2021-04-06T12:51:18 < zyp> sd/sdhc/sdxc differences are all in command set
2021-04-06T12:51:21 < rajkosto> trying to use SPI mode maybe ?
2021-04-06T12:53:23 < drzacek> https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-high-performance-mcus/stm32h7-series/stm32h723-733/stm32h723zg.html ? 
2021-04-06T12:53:38 < drzacek> looks to me l ike it has
2021-04-06T12:54:11 < drzacek> so it is advised to use 4gb or smaller one? 
2021-04-06T12:54:18 < zyp> doesn't matter
2021-04-06T12:54:33 < rajkosto> >4GB ones necessitate using FAT32 instead of FAT16, its all software
2021-04-06T12:54:38 < zyp> anything should work provided you use a lib that knows how to deal with it
2021-04-06T12:55:55 < drzacek> ah. So I can just get any size, worst case I need to partition it
2021-04-06T12:58:12 < jpa-> Laurenceb: maybe OPA314?
2021-04-06T12:58:51 < Laurenceb> I'll take a look
2021-04-06T13:24:38 < Laurenceb> problem with jfets is there is wide variation in cut off voltage
2021-04-06T13:24:49 < Laurenceb> current source biassing looks like the way to go
2021-04-06T13:26:18 < jpa-> do you even need such a high input impedance for strain gauges? use a BJT instead?
2021-04-06T13:27:39 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe
2021-04-06T13:28:00 < Laurenceb> I'm using an audiophool transformer to isolate emi and boost the voltage by a large factor
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2021-04-06T13:33:34 < jpa-> Laurenceb: so you have a preamp already between strain gauge and transformer? or a separate bias voltage there?
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2021-04-06T13:34:51 < Laurenceb> no its just strain gauge -> transformer -> sss1629
2021-04-06T13:35:02 < Laurenceb> actually I'm not sure this is a good idea anyway
2021-04-06T13:35:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: please explain why Boris told the cabbie to "fuck off and die, and not in that order". The first part I can understand, but what about the order?
2021-04-06T13:35:18 < Laurenceb> as the preamp gain might change with temperature
2021-04-06T13:35:26 < Laurenceb> lolwhat
2021-04-06T13:35:32 < Laurenceb> when did he say this?
2021-04-06T13:35:43 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: when he was a London mayor.
2021-04-06T13:35:44 < jpa-> Laurenceb: how can strain gauge -> transformer work?
2021-04-06T13:35:54 < jpa-> isn't strain gauge just passive resistor?
2021-04-06T13:36:05 < Laurenceb> PaulFertser: lul I didnt hear about that
2021-04-06T13:36:09 < Laurenceb> jpa-: yeah
2021-04-06T13:36:19 < Laurenceb> its an AC driven strain gauge bridge
2021-04-06T13:36:31 < jpa-> ah, so separate AC bias there
2021-04-06T13:36:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: there's a nice video of him cycling and then arguing with a cab driver.
2021-04-06T13:36:44 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-04-06T13:36:50 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: but I'm still puzzled about that order part.
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2021-04-06T13:37:02 < Laurenceb> jpa-: on second thoughts this would only work if gain can be stabilised using resistors or something
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2021-04-06T13:41:45 < Laurenceb> unless I use the fact that I know the mass of the system to self calibrate it
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2021-04-06T13:48:28 < Laurenceb> heh I'm not sure this is a good idea
2021-04-06T13:48:45 < Laurenceb> anyways, I could haxor it up on 0.1" stripboard if needed in future
2021-04-06T13:48:51 < jpa-> don't worry, you always have great ideas
2021-04-06T13:49:05 < Laurenceb> looks like NSVJ3910SB3 is the way to go
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2021-04-06T13:50:11 < Laurenceb> then https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=108990.0 circuit
2021-04-06T13:51:28 < jpa-> i wonder if using the transformer in voltage mode (high impedance amplifier on output) is problematic from noise point of view
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2021-04-06T13:52:21 < jpa-> because magnetic noise would cause a current relative to the magnetic field, and the higher the impedance the higher voltage noise you get
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2021-04-06T13:54:17 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-04-06T13:54:35 < Laurenceb> yeah maybe, but I'm using audiophool mu metal cased transformers
2021-04-06T13:55:07 < Laurenceb> strain gauge output is 120ohms, and adc is ~20k effective
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2021-04-06T13:55:21 < Laurenceb> so I guess it depends what transformers I can find
2021-04-06T13:55:50 < Laurenceb> with x10 turns ratio output impedance will be ~12k + DC resistance of coil
2021-04-06T13:56:21 < jpa-> not 1.2k?
2021-04-06T13:57:15 < Laurenceb> no it goes with turns^2
2021-04-06T13:57:52 < Laurenceb> so that would sort of work...
2021-04-06T13:57:57 < Laurenceb> about x6 voltage gain
2021-04-06T13:58:49 < jpa-> hmm yeah
2021-04-06T13:59:31 < zyp> why jfet? I know I learned how they were different from mosfet in electronics 101, but I've never had to care since
2021-04-06T14:01:18 < jpa-> mosfet has higher voltage threshold IIRC
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2021-04-06T14:02:06 < jpa-> jfet can work with e.g. small AC voltage swing around 0V, like in that circuit linked earlier
2021-04-06T14:04:08 < jpa-> (well actually that circuit has a small negative bias on the gate)
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2021-04-06T14:06:54 < Laurenceb> yeah negative bias allows you to use a high transconductance jfet
2021-04-06T14:11:02 < karlp> fucking -Werror
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2021-04-06T14:11:45 < zyp> haha
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2021-04-06T14:13:43 < Laurenceb> https://archive.org/details/DDees-com-illustrations/1566762655-608897-egypt0.jpg
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2021-04-06T14:15:46 < Laurenceb> https://archive.org/details/DDees-com-illustrations/1566762667-394960-sheeple-10.jpg
2021-04-06T14:15:49 < Laurenceb> lolling ard
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2021-04-06T14:17:35 < karlp> weird.  Only get uninitialized warnings for _one_ variable, not hte other two: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eVXSl
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2021-04-06T14:19:02 < karlp> I wonder if it's tracked things far enough inside the callchain to notice that has_pf might be false.
2021-04-06T14:19:08 < karlp> I guess it must be smarter than I give it credit for.
2021-04-06T14:19:23 < zyp> probably
2021-04-06T14:19:55 < karlp> still shitty that I now have to go an initialize things.
2021-04-06T14:20:02  * karlp grumbles at shitty languages.
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2021-04-06T14:22:35 < jpa-> karlp: it's because of    if (has_amps && has_volts)
2021-04-06T14:22:56 < karlp> yeah, I didn't believe it could know that those bools were relevant
2021-04-06T14:23:13 < karlp> they're separate variables, and it's depending on the insides of the js_get_double functions
2021-04-06T14:23:24 < karlp> but I guess it's looking a lot further than I gave it credit
2021-04-06T14:23:27 < zyp> are they inlinable?
2021-04-06T14:23:57 < karlp> don't care, adding an =0 to an init line and getting back to life is more useful than poking it.
2021-04-06T14:24:07 < jpa-> are they in the same file or somewhere else?
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2021-04-06T14:32:45 < bitmask> :(
2021-04-06T14:35:22 < jpa-> bitmask: why sad?
2021-04-06T14:35:29 < bitmask> my stomach is killing me
2021-04-06T14:36:21 < bitmask> and been waiting for authorization from insurance to start a new medication that still takes 1-8 weeks to start working
2021-04-06T14:44:25 < drzacek> so if I want to add microSD to a stm32 without sd controller, I need that spi/i2c module, but when I have stm32 that has native support, I need what ? some kind of breakout board that provides me the microSD pins directly?
2021-04-06T14:46:38 < jpa-> umm.. in both cases you need to connect the correct signals from the microcontroller to the microsd card
2021-04-06T14:46:43 < jpa-> how you do that is up to you
2021-04-06T14:47:31 < drzacek> yeah but if the microcontroller doesn't know how to talk to card directly, it needs some module that does it for him?
2021-04-06T14:50:43 < jpa-> it needs software on the microcontroller
2021-04-06T14:50:59 < jpa-> microsd cards can communicate directly with SPI or directly with SDIO
2021-04-06T14:56:02 < drzacek> right
2021-04-06T14:56:13 < drzacek> and everyone can do SPI, but only some sdio
2021-04-06T15:24:41 < ventyl> does H7 require any additional magic on top of enabling clock for GPIOx in order to make GPIOs working?
2021-04-06T15:25:52 < ventyl> (clockwise only, I am aware of the fact that I have to set GPIO as output and start touching it)
2021-04-06T15:29:42 < ventyl> i'll answer myself: nope
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2021-04-06T15:38:50 < fenugrec> englishman, did you get the gymflu yet
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2021-04-06T15:51:40 < karlp> fuckign email frrom github about changes in token formats, contains a link to docs, which is a 404.
2021-04-06T15:51:42 < karlp> nice one.
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2021-04-06T15:56:44 < bitmask> anyone have experience with non contact water level sensors?
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2021-04-06T16:25:57 < bitmask> any idea what connectors these are? https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/wire-harness-assembly-three-way-divider
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2021-04-06T17:17:35 < fenugrec> heh. Can't register an account on analolg.com because it doesn't like my email address, can't submit a regular enquiry unless I  sign-up to their dumbass newsletter (!), and the support page is 404
2021-04-06T17:18:04 < qyx> bitmask: they look exactly like "4-pin molex" used to power 3.5" hard drives
2021-04-06T17:18:32 < bitmask> they are two pin
2021-04-06T17:18:33 < rajkosto> but these are 2 pin each
2021-04-06T17:18:36 < rajkosto> also are you sure about that ?
2021-04-06T17:18:50 < rajkosto> https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/E910/DELOCK_83184_01.png
2021-04-06T17:18:52 < bitmask> actually I think I have enough anyway, no need to order more
2021-04-06T17:19:18 < ventyl> i know where I saw similar connector
2021-04-06T17:19:24 < ventyl> in my car
2021-04-06T17:21:16 < qyx> bitmask: yeah they are but connectors are usually manufactured in many configurations
2021-04-06T17:21:45 < bitmask> yea i know, just wasnt sure what you meant when you listed 4-pin
2021-04-06T17:22:12 < bitmask> anyone use those cheap xkc-y25 non-contact liquid level sensors?
2021-04-06T17:28:00 < englishman> fenugrec: 100% hoax
2021-04-06T17:28:13 < englishman> I feel really left out tbh
2021-04-06T17:28:24 < englishman> I could have been a statistic
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2021-04-06T17:38:39 < fenugrec> hahah
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2021-04-06T18:03:26 < bitmask> are there small SSRs for like 1A
2021-04-06T18:04:48 < bitmask> oh boy yea there are
2021-04-06T18:08:42 < karlp> you can get them in all sorts of thing.....
2021-04-06T18:09:38 < fenugrec> just buy the foteks labeled 20A. They should be good for 1A
2021-04-06T18:10:06 < bitmask> why da fuq would i do that :P
2021-04-06T18:10:31 < karlp> also this sort of stuff: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/ixys-integrated-circuits-division/CPC1017N/555063
2021-04-06T18:10:35 < bitmask> actually i have no idea what im doing
2021-04-06T18:11:34 < bitmask> I have a 12V AC transformer to power a pump and 2-4 solenoid valves, and two non contact level sensors and some switchces to control them, i'll figger it out
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2021-04-06T18:50:20 < Laurenceb> jpa-: I worked out you can make pre-amps with regular n channel mosfets
2021-04-06T18:50:24 < Laurenceb> spice is fun
2021-04-06T18:50:35 < Laurenceb> BSS806N seems to work
2021-04-06T18:50:58 < Laurenceb> higher input capacitance than jfet so it wouldnt work with an actual microphone input
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2021-04-06T19:16:03 < bitmask> i need a 3 input AND gate, any recs?
2021-04-06T19:16:48 < bitmask> at least 12V
2021-04-06T19:16:54 < jpa-> diodes?
2021-04-06T19:17:04 < jpa-> unless it needs to be fast :)
2021-04-06T19:17:15 < bitmask> doesn't need to be fast but is that efficient?
2021-04-06T19:17:35 < bitmask> figured ICs would be better but i dont mind going the diode route
2021-04-06T19:18:33 < jpa-> ICs are probably better
2021-04-06T19:18:39 < jpa-> 40xx series should go to 18V
2021-04-06T19:18:48 < bitmask> k
2021-04-06T19:19:01 < jpa-> 4073 is 3-input and
2021-04-06T19:19:18 < bitmask> yea thats the one i was lookin at
2021-04-06T19:20:28 < jpa-> 4048 is also fun to have around, it can be configured to do a lot of things
2021-04-06T19:21:07 < bitmask> oh neat
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2021-04-06T19:31:58 < karlp> ok, one build, _write() gets called on printf, other build it doesn't..
2021-04-06T19:32:11 < karlp> correct _write is compiled in both according to the .list file.
2021-04-06T19:32:19  * karlp swears at ST.
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2021-04-06T19:36:41 < boddax> nobody wrote alredy code for stm32 as logic probe ttl/cmos ?
2021-04-06T19:37:57 < PaulFertser> boddax: https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/11/14/turn-1-5-blue-pill-stm32-board-into-a-sigrok-compatible-logic-analyzer/
2021-04-06T19:38:50 < boddax> i mean simple probe with led hig low pulse test
2021-04-06T19:39:38 < karlp> wat?
2021-04-06T19:39:45 < karlp> some custom special thing you desired?
2021-04-06T19:40:31 < boddax> me karlp 
2021-04-06T19:40:33 < boddax> ?
2021-04-06T19:40:39 < karlp> yes you.
2021-04-06T19:40:53 < boddax> lol nothing special
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2021-04-06T19:41:38 < boddax> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71N8KwIiX1L._AC_SL1500_.jpg
2021-04-06T19:42:38 < karlp> I'm guessing no-one considers that a project worth building and implementing and sharing in any sort of form when you can buy one for the absurdly niche use that has.
2021-04-06T19:43:19 < boddax> for sure not ...just easy project to learn 
2021-04-06T19:45:25 < karlp> that sounds completely at odds with asking for it to already exist?
2021-04-06T19:46:35 < boddax> ah ok sirry
2021-04-06T19:46:40 < boddax> sorry*
2021-04-06T19:46:56 < karlp> don't mind me too much, having a grumpy afternoon.
2021-04-06T19:54:57 < Steffanx> Need a sugar cube, karlp?
2021-04-06T19:55:08 < Steffanx> Low sugar level causes grumpiness
2021-04-06T19:55:56 < Steffanx> Maybe a stroopwafel ;)
2021-04-06T19:58:03 < effractur> lol
2021-04-06T20:01:26 < karlp> ok, heartrate app does printf->__sinit on first call.  heartrate freertos does printf->__swsetup(), and the nnothing else
2021-04-06T20:01:29  * karlp shrugs
2021-04-06T20:01:36 < karlp> I've had three hot cross buns today.
2021-04-06T20:02:00 < karlp> stepping through newlib dissassembly to work out what the fuck is missing from some cube demo project is bullshit
2021-04-06T20:11:12 < boddax> not yet test that stroopwafel
2021-04-06T20:11:23 < boddax> salty?
2021-04-06T20:16:29 < zyp> no, it's stroopy
2021-04-06T20:17:51 < aandrew> I'm trying to figure out the correct aarch64 __asm("ldr x0, sp"); incantation to make the fucking compiler happy
2021-04-06T20:18:16 < zyp> to do what?
2021-04-06T20:18:29 < karlp> wow. so if I add a printf() to the end of APPD_Init(), then sts itnernall printfing and my own freertos task printfing works.  if I leave out that printf, there's no output at all, from mine or st code...
2021-04-06T20:18:37 < aandrew> it doesn't like "sp", it doesn't like "x31"
2021-04-06T20:18:43 < aandrew> zyp: to put the value of SP into X0
2021-04-06T20:18:48 < karlp> I suspect linker bullshit
2021-04-06T20:18:55 < zyp> aandrew, ah, try mov
2021-04-06T20:21:49 < karlp> how do I even diagnose this....
2021-04-06T20:21:55  * karlp ponders.
2021-04-06T20:22:10 < aandrew> well fuck, that worked.
2021-04-06T20:22:14 < aandrew> didn't occur to me to use mov
2021-04-06T20:22:18 < aandrew> I'm clearly an idiot
2021-04-06T20:22:20 < aandrew> thank you zyp
2021-04-06T20:22:23 < zyp> np
2021-04-06T20:22:24 < aandrew> git status
2021-04-06T20:22:30 < aandrew> ah, another perfect demo of my idiociy
2021-04-06T20:22:37 < zyp> ldr does mem->reg, mov does reg->reg
2021-04-06T20:23:22 < aandrew> yeah it's obvious once I see it, I was hung up on "equivalent of MRS is LDR"
2021-04-06T20:23:33 < aandrew> just a rather persistent brainfart
2021-04-06T20:27:25 < Steffanx> boddax: it's rather sweet.
2021-04-06T20:28:16 < karlp> hah. sbrk fails if printf is called for the first time after teh scheduler starts.
2021-04-06T20:28:22 < karlp> it succeeds if you call it first before hand...
2021-04-06T20:30:38 < karlp> now, how to tell st freertos config how to handle that...
2021-04-06T20:30:46 < karlp> this feels like progress though
2021-04-06T20:41:26 < zyp> do you have both newlib heap and freertos heap trying to allocate shit in the same area?
2021-04-06T20:42:22 < karlp> sounds like this https://nadler.com/embedded/newlibAndFreeRTOS.html sort of thing,
2021-04-06T20:42:33 < karlp> he says st still hasn't fixed it, just bandaided it in a few places.
2021-04-06T20:44:47 < zyp> ah
2021-04-06T20:44:49 < zyp> For %f output, sprintf does 4 malloc totalling ~200 bytes (only the first time it is called per task/thread).
2021-04-06T20:44:58 < zyp> so yeah, that's what's happening
2021-04-06T20:45:27 < karlp> it's actually the later printf notes, where sinit() gets called internally.
2021-04-06T20:45:29 < karlp> but yeah.
2021-04-06T20:45:47 < zyp> I figure if you call it before scheduler starts, all good, scheduler steps on it but it's probably not used by the latter prints
2021-04-06T20:46:04 < zyp> but if you call it after scheduler starts, it steps on the thread state instead which is used all the time
2021-04-06T20:48:16 < karlp> no, later prints work...
2021-04-06T20:48:32 < karlp> as long as _any_ print is called, the sinit() internall call works, 
2021-04-06T20:48:48 < karlp> but it's robably at risk of being corrupted easily as freertos might later trample it with it's own memory usges.
2021-04-06T20:48:53 < fenugrec> re printf, anyone using https://github.com/mpaland/printf ?
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2021-04-06T20:53:02 < Ecco> Hey guys
2021-04-06T20:53:09 < Ecco> I'm reading the datasheet of a transistor
2021-04-06T20:53:13 < Ecco> the title is "N-CHANNEL ENHANCEMENT MODE MOSFET"
2021-04-06T20:53:21 < Ecco> What does "enhancement mode" mean?
2021-04-06T20:53:40 < zyp> that it's a notmal one
2021-04-06T20:53:43 < zyp> normal*
2021-04-06T20:54:05 < zyp> the opposite is depletion mode, which is conducting by default
2021-04-06T20:54:16 < Ecco> oh
2021-04-06T20:54:16 < fenugrec> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion_and_enhancement_modes
2021-04-06T20:54:18 < Ecco> interesting
2021-04-06T20:54:58 < Ecco> thanks for the quick answers!
2021-04-06T20:55:57 < Ecco> Oh, a semi-related question
2021-04-06T20:56:03 < Ecco> I'm using said transistor to drive an LED
2021-04-06T20:56:28 < Ecco> I probably could drive the LED from a GPIO, but I'd be very close to the max draw current
2021-04-06T20:56:46 < Ecco> But actually I'm driving 3 LEDs. So that's 3 transistors
2021-04-06T20:56:52 < Ecco> I feel like this is kind of stupid though
2021-04-06T20:57:08 < Ecco> here's why: I've seen stuff such as controllable LED strips
2021-04-06T20:57:20 < Ecco> so I assume that there must be some specific LED controlling IC
2021-04-06T20:57:38 < Ecco> that are manufactured by the billion every day
2021-04-06T20:57:39 < zyp> controllable led strips have a controller in each individual led, typically
2021-04-06T20:57:54 < zyp> but yeah, you get led driver chips as well
2021-04-06T20:57:59 < Steffanx> How super bright do you what your LEDs to be when your are close to the max of a/the GPIO(s)?
2021-04-06T20:58:01 < Ecco> yeah. So wouldn't it be cheaper/more efficien to use one of theses?
2021-04-06T20:58:17 < zyp> depends what you're doing
2021-04-06T20:58:23 < Ecco> Steffanx: well, so far I was aiming for the rating of the LED which IIRC is 20mA
2021-04-06T20:58:25 < zyp> I just did that on a board I designed
2021-04-06T20:58:29 < Ecco> so I was hoping to get 20mA per LED
2021-04-06T20:58:54 < zyp> are they indicators? 20mA is gonna be crazy bright
2021-04-06T20:59:05 < Steffanx> Just keep in mind that modern leds are super bright.
2021-04-06T20:59:07 < Ecco> Yeah, but they're shine-through
2021-04-06T20:59:17 < Steffanx> so if unsure, try it.
2021-04-06T20:59:22 < Ecco> I did try
2021-04-06T20:59:25 < Ecco> and you guys are right
2021-04-06T20:59:25 < Steffanx> ok :)
2021-04-06T20:59:34 < Ecco> in regular usage, it would indeed be enough to burn one's retina
2021-04-06T20:59:52 < Ecco> but we use them behind a .something layer of ABS
2021-04-06T21:00:07 < Ecco> so the brightest the better
2021-04-06T21:00:44 < zyp> InGaN green is crazy, I did some tests last week to figure out what current limiting resistor to pick, concluded it's still plenty bright at 100µA
2021-04-06T21:00:55 < Ecco> wow
2021-04-06T21:01:39 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hcgIc.jpg <- here it is, next to a strip of adressable leds
2021-04-06T21:02:02 < zyp> the adressable ones are also InGaN, and set to 8/255 :p
2021-04-06T21:02:16 < Ecco> well, the pixels are like… white :)
2021-04-06T21:02:34 < Ecco> Unless we all have HDR equipment it's going to be hard to tell how saturated this really was :)
2021-04-06T21:02:41 < Ecco> But I'll take your word for it :)
2021-04-06T21:02:56 < Ecco> What would be the typical ship used in an addressable LED?
2021-04-06T21:03:14 < zyp> e.g. ws28xx or sk68xx
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2021-04-06T21:03:19 < Ecco> ok thanks
2021-04-06T21:03:25 < zyp> these particular ones are called sk6805-ec15 or something like that
2021-04-06T21:03:31 < Ecco> any idea of how much they sell for (in large-ish quantities)
2021-04-06T21:05:15 < zyp> I've listed them as $0.22 in my BOM, but they are available even cheaper on aliexpress
2021-04-06T21:05:30 < Ecco> ok awesome thanks
2021-04-06T21:06:14 < zyp> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32958032852.html >7c if you buy 1000
2021-04-06T21:06:22 < Ecco> wow, that is cheap
2021-04-06T21:06:27 < zyp> <7c, I mean
2021-04-06T21:07:27 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/cw83u.mp4
2021-04-06T21:08:23 < zyp> that's still 8/255
2021-04-06T21:08:47 < aandrew> zyp: wow
2021-04-06T21:09:23 < Ecco> btw, I never looked into them, but how do led strips work really?
2021-04-06T21:09:36 < Ecco> I assume there's a serial protocol that you have to use
2021-04-06T21:09:41 < aandrew> what's the difference between apa102 or sk6805, any limitations on the latter? there's a significant difference betweent hem
2021-04-06T21:09:46 < Ecco> and be like "LED number 12, please turn on 12%"
2021-04-06T21:09:48 < aandrew> Ecco: it's kind of pulse-width digital coding
2021-04-06T21:10:03 < Ecco> kind of like servos?
2021-04-06T21:10:08 < zyp> aandrew, IIRC apa102 has separate clock+data
2021-04-06T21:10:18 < Ecco> and how do you designate a specific LED?
2021-04-06T21:10:20 < zyp> but yeah, sk6805 is just pulse
2021-04-06T21:10:24 < zyp> you don't
2021-04-06T21:10:28 < aandrew> Ecco: you shift out the RGB pattern and when you push the next RGB pattern the first one is shifted out of the "head" LED and into the one down the line
2021-04-06T21:10:34 < Ecco> ooooooh
2021-04-06T21:10:50 < Ecco> so it's a "trickle-down" kind of mechanism
2021-04-06T21:10:52 < aandrew> yeah
2021-04-06T21:10:56 < Ecco> that's smart :)
2021-04-06T21:10:56 < zyp> each led eats the first 24 pulses of an update and passes the rest on
2021-04-06T21:11:00 < aandrew> lots of serial shift regs work that way
2021-04-06T21:11:16 < Ecco> that's actually… so simple and smart :)
2021-04-06T21:11:21 < zyp> so not entirely what aandrew said
2021-04-06T21:11:23 < Ecco> pretty awesome :)
2021-04-06T21:11:52 < aandrew> zyp: right, I forgot there's that method too for serial control. same kind of idea except the "order" is inverted
2021-04-06T21:12:34 < zyp> each pulse period is 1.2µs, 25% signals 0 and 50% signals 1 (i.e. 0.3 and 0.6 µs respectively)
2021-04-06T21:13:05 < aandrew> lots of STM32 DMA GPIO code to drive long chains of them
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2021-04-06T21:13:17 < zyp> yeah
2021-04-06T21:13:32 < Ecco> what are the typical use cases of LED strips?
2021-04-06T21:13:41 < zyp> decoration?
2021-04-06T21:13:43 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-06T21:14:04 < aandrew> visual effects / cheap RGB dot matrix displays, etc.
2021-04-06T21:14:23 < aandrew> although the big fancy outdoor displays use a different method and really cheap panele
2021-04-06T21:14:26 < aandrew> panels
2021-04-06T21:14:57 < aandrew> greg davil on twitter does all kidns of cool shit with them
2021-04-06T21:15:07 < zyp> in my case I just don't want to deal with routing like 15 signals to drive five rgb leds
2021-04-06T21:15:26 < zyp> and I have some cool sharing logic going on
2021-04-06T21:15:54 < zyp> the leds want a 5V signal, so instead of a plain buffer I put in a greenpak
2021-04-06T21:15:57 < Ecco> Yeah, makes sense
2021-04-06T21:16:08 < Ecco> The reason I'm asking
2021-04-06T21:16:14 < Ecco> is because even for just one RGB led
2021-04-06T21:16:24 < zyp> when the greenpak receives a data stream from the fpga, it switches to bypass and acts as a dumb buffer
2021-04-06T21:16:25 < Ecco> it might be cheaper to use one of these
2021-04-06T21:17:06 < zyp> but when the input is idle, greenpak has its own logic to drive them, showing status of the fpga DONE signal and the voltage rails
2021-04-06T21:17:48 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Y6nTa.png
2021-04-06T21:18:06 < Ecco> what EDA is this?
2021-04-06T21:18:14 < zyp> that is greenpak designer
2021-04-06T21:18:36 < zyp> that logic goes into a SLG46811V, which is a 20c part
2021-04-06T21:18:41 < Ecco> wow
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2021-04-06T21:19:08 < Ecco> is it some kind of lightweight FPGA?
2021-04-06T21:19:10 < boddax> stroopelCAD
2021-04-06T21:19:23 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MrBP7.mp4 <- fourth LED is 1.1V rail status
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2021-04-06T21:20:50 < bitmask> haha holy shit, I thought these SSRs I was looking at were like an inch or two long, they are only 2.5mm long
2021-04-06T21:22:57 < zyp> and yeah, greenpak is kinda like a very small fpga, but with a bunch of analog blocks mixed in
2021-04-06T21:24:29 < Ecco> sounds cool
2021-04-06T21:25:08 < karlp> ok, not looking at stacks anymore today. be nicer if nadler's replacement code wasn't ugly spaghetti with lolrence formatting.
2021-04-06T21:25:34 < zyp> configuration is stored in OTP, so it's more like a fixed function chip that you get to define
2021-04-06T21:26:21 < qyx> how do you debug the thing?
2021-04-06T21:26:33 < qyx> or develop
2021-04-06T21:26:44 < zyp> https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/greenpak/slg4dvkadv <- I got this thing
2021-04-06T21:27:00 < qyx> does it loiad from otp at startup?
2021-04-06T21:27:10 < zyp> yeah, mostly
2021-04-06T21:27:24 < zyp> most of the stuff can be reconfigured via i2c
2021-04-06T21:28:01 < zyp> but not the EPG block, that one reads directly from OTP, so I had to burn a chip to get any data into that block
2021-04-06T21:28:10 < zyp> and then I can still reconfigure the rest, but not that block
2021-04-06T21:29:24 < rajkosto> they should make them with flash
2021-04-06T21:30:12 < zyp> there's two or three models using eeprom instead of OTP, but they don't really have any other fun blocks
2021-04-06T21:30:52 < zyp> I picked this one in particular because it's got the EPG (pattern generator) that helps doing the led pattern
2021-04-06T21:31:20 < zyp> and then I got another on the same board that's essentially a dual LDO with voltage programmable over I2C
2021-04-06T21:32:13 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/kDVws.png
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2021-04-06T21:33:37 < zyp> can be controlled with plain pins as well, SEL selects between 3.3V and 1.8V out by default, but those are configurable over i2c
2021-04-06T21:38:36 < qyx> maybe I should check those greenpaks but idk what to use them for
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2021-04-06T21:56:54 < Steffanx> A fancy led controller :)
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2021-04-06T23:33:09 < Laurenceb> any libreoffice users here?
2021-04-06T23:33:20  * Laurenceb cant get numbered lists to behave
2021-04-06T23:36:17 < Laurenceb> oh "clear direct formatting"
2021-04-06T23:36:22 < Laurenceb> so obvious /s
--- Day changed Wed Apr 07 2021
2021-04-07T00:00:59 < ventyl> jpa-: did you any work on seeedstudio DSO quad, some decade ago?
2021-04-07T00:08:13 < bitmask> if you have an ac/ac adapter whats the output voltage rating, rms?
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2021-04-07T00:19:05 < Steffanx> ofcourse he did ventyl 
2021-04-07T00:21:07 < bitmask> this shit fine? https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/DBF310-13?qs=fAHHVMwC%252Bbgh%2FF6N5%2FLeeA%3D%3D
2021-04-07T00:21:08 < bitmask> :P
2021-04-07T00:21:33 < bitmask> never used a bridge rec before :)
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2021-04-07T01:03:47 < bitmask> are TI's simple switchers any good?
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2021-04-07T01:14:23 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-07T01:14:25 < aandrew> I like 'em
2021-04-07T01:14:58 < bitmask> do you give up anything for having fewer external components? whats not great about em?
2021-04-07T01:15:33 < aandrew> don't think so
2021-04-07T01:15:38 < bitmask> k cool
2021-04-07T01:15:41 < aandrew> mind you I don't autist over every % of efficiency
2021-04-07T01:17:10 < bitmask> yea, I just assumed everything would be a simple switcher if there wasn't a problem somewhere, but i guess its just tiny bits of efficiency you are trying to eek out with those with more external components, and other random features
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2021-04-07T02:20:02 < aandrew> generally the fancier ones you can tweak the compensation network and such to eke out that little bit more. pthorn or karlp are probably the experts in that department
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2021-04-07T02:39:35 < bitmask> what voltage ripple are you aiming for after the bridge rectifier smoothing cap
2021-04-07T02:39:48 < bitmask> which will then go to the smps
2021-04-07T02:39:57 < bitmask> (though not including the smps input cap)
2021-04-07T02:42:15 < aandrew> generally for smps you don't want a big smoothing cap, that just introduces lots of even harmonics
2021-04-07T02:51:47 < bitmask> im just playing around with a sim and its showing that even with 2x 470uF I get 2V p-p
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2021-04-07T03:48:34 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCEbuuJeO80
2021-04-07T03:48:56 < kakium69> your daily wildlife youtubes
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2021-04-07T05:31:23  * t4nk_freenode just grabs a coffee and some peanuts and watches kakium69's monkey-business instead
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2021-04-07T06:54:51 < jpa-> ventyl: i did some custom hobby stuff for it, yeah
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2021-04-07T09:50:10 < ventyl> jpa-: i have found some old repositories referring to `jpa`. i still have it and kinda works
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2021-04-07T09:55:46 < mawk> ventyl: there's even jpa- stuff in logic 2 LA software
2021-04-07T09:56:41 < zyp> jpa- is one of those people who shows up everywhere, like karlp
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2021-04-07T10:24:10 < jpa-> ventyl: i also used dso quad until i finally got a rigol last year; my old stuff is here: http://essentialscrap.com/dsoquad/
2021-04-07T10:29:13 < ventyl> jpa-: t.hanks. i've been basically searching for opensourced or reverse engineered scope application, so I could try to fix some of bugs present
2021-04-07T10:29:40 < ventyl> and i know most of them. pawn is actually loaded in my DSO
2021-04-07T10:30:38 < jpa-> ventyl: ah, if you want a scope app, i've been using this  https://github.com/gabonator/DS203
2021-04-07T10:31:27 < ventyl> jpa-: this is one, which used to be called "fixed scope app" back then?
2021-04-07T10:31:39 < jpa-> no, that's a complete rewrite
2021-04-07T10:31:51 < ventyl> oh, great!
2021-04-07T10:32:02 < jpa-> there were a bunch of "fixed scope app"s based on seeed code back then.. because there was a lot to fix :D
2021-04-07T10:32:16 < ventyl> yeah, I know
2021-04-07T10:33:06 < ventyl> i remember various versions of seed scope app, then that one "fixed", pawn and usb analyzer
2021-04-07T10:33:51 < ventyl> my aim was to use pawn as engine diagnostic tool, but then I found out, that ECU detects short circuit if you connect two independent "ground" connections together and stops engine completely
2021-04-07T10:33:56 < ventyl> so I gave up
2021-04-07T10:34:21 < jpa-> i could sell you an isolator ;)
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2021-04-07T10:36:36 < ventyl> weeeell yes. but if I have to fiddle with isolator, I can fiddle with actual measurement HW
2021-04-07T10:37:26 < ventyl> DSO equpiment is "good enough" for basic measurements but having more channels would be better. once I have to fiddle with isolation, I can put some more capable HW together
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2021-04-07T10:41:24 < ventyl> i'll build that, it seems that it offers rather interesting features
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2021-04-07T10:46:33 < Steffanx> Buy jpa-'s isolator ;)
2021-04-07T10:50:30 < jpa-> it's pretty annoying to plug BNC stuff into dso quad :P
2021-04-07T10:53:07 < ventyl> i hope that HW isn't fried already. my DSO developed broken FAT syndrome over years
2021-04-07T10:55:30 < jpa-> the original bios always had bunch of corruption issues
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2021-04-07T11:00:30 < ventyl> can that also be replaced by something fully functional? i've seen gcc-compatible sys, but repo says, that it isn't fully functional, namely usb support is only partial
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2021-04-07T11:16:38 < jpa-> ventyl: https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/AlterBIOS  i made this back in the day
2021-04-07T11:16:44 < jpa-> but it is just a patch
2021-04-07T11:20:43 < ventyl> ok, this will be fun
2021-04-07T11:20:52 < ventyl> i mean "fun" because DFU fails
2021-04-07T11:21:22 < ventyl> i hope there is SWD exposed somewhere on PCB because I might easilly be in a need of using it today
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2021-04-07T11:50:26 < jpa-> ventyl: SWD is not exposed (which is stupid), but there is a 6-pin header for the BOOT0 serial bootloader
2021-04-07T11:57:51 < ventyl> well
2021-04-07T11:58:11 < ventyl> let's hope I can make it working again without disassembling it
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2021-04-07T12:18:03 < ventyl> DFU might easilly come to my list of technologies I hate today
2021-04-07T12:32:36 < karlp> dfu's great
2021-04-07T12:33:06 < karlp> st's extensions to it don't make a lot of sense though.
2021-04-07T12:33:36 < zyp> agreed
2021-04-07T12:34:12 < zyp> DFU is fine, but a lot of implementations includes weird nonstandard extensions
2021-04-07T12:34:44 < karlp> and they also seem completely unnecessary, given how open dfu itself is...
2021-04-07T12:34:47 < ventyl> if that fucker was working
2021-04-07T12:34:57 < ventyl> dfu-util won't find it
2021-04-07T12:35:04 < karlp> "it" ?
2021-04-07T12:35:04 < ventyl> dfutool will fuck it up
2021-04-07T12:35:09 < ventyl> DS203
2021-04-07T12:35:21 < ventyl> but it is probably some STM32F103 default DFUsomething
2021-04-07T12:39:00 < jpa-> if you mean DSO Quad bootloader, it has nothing to do with the standard DFU protocol
2021-04-07T12:39:16 < jpa-> it uses some custom code with usb mass storage emulation
2021-04-07T12:39:32 < jpa-> and it works.. sometimes
2021-04-07T12:39:56 < karlp> sounds like stlinkv1...
2021-04-07T12:40:01 < jpa-> (it does not and is not expected to work with dfutool, though)
2021-04-07T12:40:09 < jpa-> karlp: nah, it is not *that* broken
2021-04-07T12:41:09 < jpa-> IIRC it works without any quirks on linux, at least when mounting & unmounting manually
2021-04-07T12:41:16 < jpa-> IIRC some people had some problems with automounters
2021-04-07T12:42:23 < ventyl> with -o sync, file write will fail
2021-04-07T12:42:32 < qyx> interesting, mass storage worked for me on stlink v3 onliux
2021-04-07T12:42:41 < ventyl> without it, it won't fail, but the firmware seems to be broken
2021-04-07T12:42:43 < karlp> that's v3 :)
2021-04-07T12:43:04 < karlp> I was making fun of the -v1 implementation that very few of us thankfully had to deal with.
2021-04-07T12:43:09 < zyp> jpa-, uf2 or some other shit?
2021-04-07T12:43:21  * karlp would guess nothign so standardized :)
2021-04-07T12:43:26 < karlp> especially given it's age now.
2021-04-07T12:43:37 < zyp> uf2 actually doesn't seem so dumb
2021-04-07T12:44:19 < zyp> I mean, the need for it is, but the implementation is clever enough
2021-04-07T12:45:32 < jpa-> zyp: just .hex files
2021-04-07T12:45:42 < zyp> heh
2021-04-07T12:46:01 < zyp> I guess that works too
2021-04-07T12:46:51 < jpa-> it did have some funny things in its .hex parser, rejecting some files for some reason
2021-04-07T12:47:15 < ventyl> i will probably try to re-upload original files
2021-04-07T12:47:18 < zyp> uf2 has the advantage that everything is sector aligned, so you don't really need to care about any filesystem details at all
2021-04-07T12:47:22 < ventyl> to see if I can get some working baseline
2021-04-07T12:48:16 < zyp> I guess in theory you can just have a read handler serving up a few static sectors to emulate a file system and a write handler that processes uf2 sectors and just blackholes everything else
2021-04-07T12:49:02 < jpa-> ventyl: your actual problem might be just that there are bazillion different versions of "DS203" and the firmwares are not always compatible
2021-04-07T12:49:30 < karlp> "sectors" is the worst fucking leakage of shit that people normally don't care about 
2021-04-07T12:49:40 < karlp> it's as useless as fucking "word"
2021-04-07T12:50:05 < zyp> blocks then? areas?
2021-04-07T12:50:34 < zyp> pages?
2021-04-07T12:51:14 < ventyl> jpa-: I'll try to use what seeedstudio provided. I know that I already managed to upload it once somehow
2021-04-07T12:51:25 < ventyl> but I don't remember how, as it was almost a decade ago
2021-04-07T12:52:07 < ventyl> gabonator's hex files online are almost certainly for some different version as they overwrite logo and FPGA binaries
2021-04-07T12:53:19 < karlp> zyp: I mean in the sense that people are expected to know them.
2021-04-07T12:53:59 < zyp> but they vary
2021-04-07T12:54:09 < karlp> and that shouldn't matter for users as much as it does.
2021-04-07T12:54:12 < karlp> IMO
2021-04-07T12:54:44 < karlp> if you'ðre writing flash layer drivers, sure, but toomany epeople are exposed to what sector sizes are without ever needing to knwo the difference IMO
2021-04-07T12:55:19 < jpa-> ventyl: which DFU loader version do you have? mine has V3.10
2021-04-07T12:55:26 < zyp> karlp, how so?
2021-04-07T12:55:58 < ventyl> jpa-: same, AFAIK I have latest known software as provided by seeed studio
2021-04-07T12:56:09 < ventyl> or better said: I had
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2021-04-07T12:57:05 < ventyl> but their web now is just a bunch of dead links
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2021-04-07T12:57:46 < zyp> karlp, I don't really see what prompted this rant -- even if I stated that uf2 got sector-aligned commands, you don't need to know or care what the actual sector size is to understand the point
2021-04-07T12:59:19 < zyp> point is that every write command will be aligned with a uf2 block in the file, so all the write handler has to do is look for the uf2 header in the write buffer
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2021-04-07T13:01:31 < karlp> then it sounds like uf2 did the right thing? :)
2021-04-07T13:01:51 < karlp> I've just seen too many user facing things that required the user to know and take care about differing underlying sector sizes.
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2021-04-07T13:03:30 < zyp> the only thing I can think of was the controversy when spinning disks went from 512B to 4k sectors some years back, how people were worried that would cause issues with FS metadata not being aligned to 4k
2021-04-07T13:05:00 < karlp> eh, I probablyt see too much of it in openwrt.
2021-04-07T13:05:20 < zyp> perhaps, I've never touched openwrt much
2021-04-07T13:05:23  * karlp returns to freertos+stm32wb.
2021-04-07T13:05:34 < zyp> how is stm32wb so far?
2021-04-07T13:05:42 < karlp> no idea.
2021-04-07T13:05:45 < zyp> haha
2021-04-07T13:06:21 < karlp> I'm only perservering because it's st, so in theory i should know more of it, and have more relevant understanding of where to find things.
2021-04-07T13:06:22 < zyp> I kinda lost interest after I bricked one, but I'm getting tempted to take a second look now that more documentation is out
2021-04-07T13:06:30 < ventyl> oh jesus, this chinenglish is breaking my eyeballs /o\
2021-04-07T13:06:40 < karlp> I fucking _hate_ the way the default cube project structure looks
2021-04-07T13:06:43 < karlp> absolutely vile
2021-04-07T13:07:01 < karlp> there's _heaps_ of documentaiotn, but most of it is very thing.
2021-04-07T13:07:07 < karlp> very thin.
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2021-04-07T13:07:23 < karlp> and a lot of extra magic that's hidden inside "middleware"
2021-04-07T13:07:56 < karlp> paper specs look good for us on power consumption, but we'll see.
2021-04-07T13:09:16 < ventyl> it's ton of dirt
2021-04-07T13:09:19 < ventyl> completely obfuscated
2021-04-07T13:09:45 < ventyl> cube projects were main reason why I left my nucleo laying in the shelve for more than year
2021-04-07T13:10:29 < zyp> I'd rather run laks on cpu1, so what I want is documentation for the inter-cpu RPC
2021-04-07T13:10:41 < zyp> and that wasn't public last I played with it
2021-04-07T13:10:48 < karlp> yeah, that seems to be only documented via code.
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2021-04-07T13:11:04 < zyp> I think I saw some of it got published though
2021-04-07T13:11:04 < karlp> it certainly doesn't have a nicec clear "here's the header you need, and here's the IPC functions"
2021-04-07T13:11:26 < karlp> there's a document saying, "this hwsem ids are used for these purposes, don't try and fuck around"
2021-04-07T13:11:35 < karlp> so you _can_, but it's certainly out of my scope right now.
2021-04-07T13:12:48 < zyp> I might just go with nrf
2021-04-07T13:13:19 < zyp> assuming I get around to do anything at all :)
2021-04-07T13:14:09 < karlp> well, I hated the out of box nrf52 experience so much I've put it away again.
2021-04-07T13:14:32 < karlp> 0 to demo for that was utter trash. docs on top of docs on top of docs but no "let's get going"
2021-04-07T13:14:45 < karlp> esp32 wins the "zero to demo" followed by bgm220 so far.
2021-04-07T13:14:53 < zyp> perhaps
2021-04-07T13:15:02 < zyp> but nrf52 actually got documented radio regs
2021-04-07T13:15:16 < karlp> well, I haven't got time for that :)
2021-04-07T13:15:30 < zyp> and what I have in mind might do with just custom radio, not any huge standardized bullshit
2021-04-07T13:15:40 < karlp> and it might have docs for radio, but it has "we'll magicalyl handle power for you" and  vague handy wavy shitty specs for the adc power consumption :)
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2021-04-07T13:29:42 < Steffanx> Nrf softdevice is amazing though. Such nice debugging experience
2021-04-07T13:30:55 < Steffanx> The sdks are great too. Same as the forums. Links are never dead. The config is well documented. You don't have to enable 15 config options just to make 2  UARTs work. It's GREAT
2021-04-07T13:31:00 < Steffanx> *NOT*
2021-04-07T13:31:48 < Steffanx> It's a fucking me
2021-04-07T13:31:56 < Steffanx> Ss
2021-04-07T13:32:18 < Steffanx> Of old and new APIs and examples and shit.
2021-04-07T13:34:56 < karlp> yeah, I did not get warm fuzzies reading.
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2021-04-07T13:49:03 < karlp> nice, tried a cube setting change, nuked my code, didnt' have it in the right place...
2021-04-07T13:51:51 < ventyl> jpa-: ok, it seems that if you do all the stuff quick enough and without syncing, you can copy it straight from linux
2021-04-07T14:02:02 < zyp> Steffanx, yeah, if you have to use a softdevice, nrf53 looks interesting since you can just give it its own cpu
2021-04-07T14:02:38 < zyp> assuming again that the IPC is sane
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2021-04-07T14:49:40 < karlp> god eclipse has a trash ui
2021-04-07T14:50:12 < karlp> running other things instead of the context I'm in, opening files with the same name from a different project instead of the open one....
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2021-04-07T14:59:34 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-04-07T15:00:19 < Steffanx> I have the honour to use mplab x ide. Its netbeans based. And the code generator actually does not overwrite your code. You can merge it. 
2021-04-07T15:00:32 < Steffanx> Such fancy feature
2021-04-07T15:01:38 < fenugrec> Steffanx, what are you doing in mplab x, you double-face
2021-04-07T15:02:05 < fenugrec> workin on that 12c508 eh
2021-04-07T15:02:17 < Steffanx> Client PICced the mcu...
2021-04-07T15:03:49 < Steffanx> Nah its an 18F25Q43. Something rather new. 
2021-04-07T15:03:57 < Steffanx> Not my choice... -_-
2021-04-07T15:05:37 < fenugrec> heh. at least it's not a 16F
2021-04-07T15:06:12 < fenugrec> " sorry, too deeply nested calls (9), shit's not going to work"
2021-04-07T15:06:24 < karlp> yeah, mny "normal" C ide is netbeans, and ~everythign else is intellij based, so going back to eclipse is just horrific
2021-04-07T15:06:46 < karlp> like, the build failed, why would I want to switch to debug view and "proceed" with debugging?!
2021-04-07T15:15:21 < ventyl> but.. but...
2021-04-07T15:15:30 < ventyl> you can integrate IBM Jazz client into Eclipse!
2021-04-07T15:15:43 < ventyl> every automotive SW developer would be wet from this combo
2021-04-07T15:25:41 < karlp> I've never heard anything good about working in automotive...
2021-04-07T15:30:14 < ventyl> this shouldn't sound `good`
2021-04-07T15:30:31 < ventyl> IBM Jazz is world's second worst version control system
2021-04-07T15:30:42 < karlp> what's the worst?
2021-04-07T15:30:45 < ventyl> third if you consider e-mailing source code as a kind of VCS
2021-04-07T15:30:50 < ventyl> IBM's own ClearCase
2021-04-07T15:30:54 < karlp> heh
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2021-04-07T15:31:00 < karlp> I was wondering if you were going to say clearcase :)
2021-04-07T15:31:20 < karlp> I actualyl think clearcase has/had some really important revolution design choices in it, 
2021-04-07T15:31:31 < karlp> but the performance was terrible.
2021-04-07T15:31:46 < ventyl> well, it could be OK in '90s
2021-04-07T15:31:47 < karlp> I've not used it for something like 15 year or so now though
2021-04-07T15:31:50 < zyp> that's all I remember from it
2021-04-07T15:32:19 < karlp> the virtual checkout/views was something git did later, and mercurial, 
2021-04-07T15:32:30 < karlp> and clearcase was certainly far superior to cvs.
2021-04-07T15:32:30 < ventyl> then SVN came, which is more-less on par with Jazz, just with Jazz a failure is legitimate way forward
2021-04-07T15:32:36 < karlp> what elese were options at the time?
2021-04-07T15:32:46 < karlp> svn is garbage with big teams, it was just cvs with less suck.
2021-04-07T15:33:03 < ventyl> i don't think there were other usable options
2021-04-07T15:33:12 < ventyl> oh, perforce
2021-04-07T15:33:12 < karlp> perforce was around then.
2021-04-07T15:33:30 < karlp> I only used that at one job, it was... ok, but kinda janky in different ways.
2021-04-07T15:33:46 < karlp> and I missed the views/checkouts of clearcase.
2021-04-07T15:33:48 < ventyl> it was OK until server crashed
2021-04-07T15:33:55 < zyp> I encountered clearcase when I worked at STE, and that was less than 10 years ago
2021-04-07T15:34:10 < ventyl> Siemens was using clearcase just a few years ago
2021-04-07T15:34:19 < karlp> I imagine cisco still uses clearcase.
2021-04-07T15:34:22 < ventyl> then they migrated to TFS/Git
2021-04-07T15:34:26 < zyp> thankfully I never had to use it much, the stuff I worked on was hosted in git
2021-04-07T15:34:35 < zyp> but the modem firmware stuff was in clearcase
2021-04-07T15:35:22 < zyp> and there was a couple times I tried digging through that to figure out some issue
2021-04-07T15:35:47 < ventyl> main advantage of Jazz / RTC as advertised by IBM for automotive is, that it supports connections to IBM Doors
2021-04-07T15:36:04 < ventyl> which is, for some weird reason, quite widespread solution to deal with requirements
2021-04-07T15:36:13 < karlp> man, st default project for cube ide with freertos, doesn't have rtos aware debugging...
2021-04-07T15:36:31 < ventyl> and, naturally, RTC supports connection to Doors, but it never really works
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2021-04-07T15:42:11 < ventyl> jpa-: thx, it seems that i finally made it working, mostly
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2021-04-07T17:08:33 < karlp> nadlers too complicated, I fixed it myself.... https://false.ekta.is/2021/04/freertos-with-stm32-cube/
2021-04-07T17:08:48 < karlp> (I'm _pretty_ sure I've got that right, ifanyone wants to proof read and yell at me)
2021-04-07T17:10:08 < Laurenceb> anyone here used xrdp  ?
2021-04-07T17:10:16 < Laurenceb> it seems to "work" fine for me
2021-04-07T17:10:25 < zyp> karlp, ah, so it was the sp check that breaks everything
2021-04-07T17:10:34 < Laurenceb> just I get a blank desktop with absolutely nothing on it
2021-04-07T17:10:35 < zyp> didn't remember that
2021-04-07T17:10:43 < karlp> yeah.
2021-04-07T17:10:56 < karlp> sp is in the freertos heap, so it never succeeds.
2021-04-07T17:11:04 < karlp> this has taken me far too long :|
2021-04-07T17:11:09 < zyp> makes sense
2021-04-07T17:11:41 < karlp> I thought using freertos heap_3 and declaring freertos-newlib_reentrent should hav ebeen enough on it's own honestly, but I might have gotten something wrong 
2021-04-07T17:12:35 < zyp> option 4, replace malloc and free with aliases for freertos heap
2021-04-07T17:12:51 < zyp> but probably annoying to get right :)
2021-04-07T17:13:23 < karlp> heh.
2021-04-07T17:13:28 < karlp> yeah, didn't think of that.
2021-04-07T17:13:47 < karlp> that's _probably_ as easy as "#define malloc pvMalloc" ....
2021-04-07T17:14:01 < zyp> no
2021-04-07T17:14:14 < zyp> that won't make newlib itself call the right thing
2021-04-07T17:14:34 < zyp> will work to redirect direct calls, but not e.g. when printf wants to call malloc
2021-04-07T17:14:35 < karlp> oh, yeah, duh.
2021-04-07T17:14:50 < ventyl> can it be made thread-safe?
2021-04-07T17:14:52 < karlp> there's newlib documented methods for that though
2021-04-07T17:14:52 < zyp> so you'll want to replace the entire symbol
2021-04-07T17:15:13 < karlp> I'm, somewhat more interested in why I couldn't get heap_3 to work, "just use newlib malloc/free"
2021-04-07T17:15:33 < karlp> should try it again now that i've figured it all out cleanly again.
2021-04-07T17:15:42 < zyp> did you make newlib reentrant?
2021-04-07T17:17:32 < ventyl> that reads as 'no'
2021-04-07T17:18:15 < karlp> yeah, set the flag for it at least...
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2021-04-07T17:30:09 < karlp> hrm.  ok, heap_3 works now too.
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2021-04-07T17:34:50 < karlp> now, how to nicely get a clean project generatd back out of cube that I can actually move forward with...
2021-04-07T17:43:26 < karlp> still don't know why I don't have thread aware debugging.
2021-04-07T17:43:29 < karlp> st says it's there.
2021-04-07T17:43:36 < karlp> there's no optin to turn it on or off that I can find.
2021-04-07T17:46:48 < aandrew> karlp: ozone has decent freertos thread debugging. not spectacular, but decent
2021-04-07T17:49:36 < karlp> openocd+gdb does too,
2021-04-07T17:49:51 < karlp> but I'm inside cubeide, and it's an advertised feature, I just.... can't see it..
2021-04-07T17:50:04 < jpa-> karlp, zyp: i've sometimes just added malloc() symbol in my own .c file, which then gets linked before the libc one
2021-04-07T17:50:36 < karlp> fwiw, a heap_3 build is marginally smaller than a heap_4 build, despite freertos claims abotu newlib being big and bloated.
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2021-04-07T17:50:45 < englishman> https://wccftech.com/exclusive-demand-to-exceed-supply-for-intel-rocket-lake-due-to-substrate-shortage/
2021-04-07T17:50:57 < karlp> (though I've got no comparison abotu stack frame sizes, which they also say will be bigger with the newlib re-ent structs)
2021-04-07T17:51:52 < aandrew> ah, yeah I have not used cubeide
2021-04-07T17:54:45 < karlp> ok, foudn it.
2021-04-07T17:55:33 < karlp> read the manual: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/xl1tH.png
2021-04-07T17:59:25 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
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2021-04-07T17:59:35 < Laurenceb> in htop I see about 20 copies of cinnamon
2021-04-07T17:59:46 < Laurenceb> could I kill them? only one has any cpu use
2021-04-07T17:59:53 < Laurenceb> the others are eating my ram
2021-04-07T18:00:24 < aandrew> are they actually eating RAM or is it all shared
2021-04-07T18:01:22 < ventyl> i would expect the latter
2021-04-07T18:02:25 < ventyl> modprobe zram && zramctl --size <ramsize> /dev/zram0 && mkswap /dev/zram0 && swapon /dev/zram0 && yolo
2021-04-07T18:02:39 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-04-07T18:02:51 < Laurenceb> the ram use is identical for all of them
2021-04-07T18:03:21 < aandrew> they're probably a gazillion threads becuase each mouse button, scrollwheel and every key needs its own thread
2021-04-07T18:03:45 < ventyl> winapi programming style
2021-04-07T18:04:33 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-04-07T18:04:47 < Laurenceb> >xorg and cinnamon are using >3GB of swap
2021-04-07T18:05:05 < Laurenceb> maybe they will give it up at some point?
2021-04-07T18:05:12 < ventyl> VSZ or RSS?
2021-04-07T18:06:01 < Laurenceb> huh?
2021-04-07T18:06:13 < ventyl> ah, 3GB of swap, how did you figure it out?
2021-04-07T18:06:19 < Laurenceb> htop
2021-04-07T18:08:45 < ventyl> that sounds fishy
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2021-04-07T19:34:11 < rajkosto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy9Jn-3vuPs starlink go brrr
2021-04-07T19:36:37 < Streaker> did she say "I still love you" ?
2021-04-07T19:38:30 < rajkosto> yfw a woman will never say that to you
2021-04-07T19:44:15 < boddax> my eclipse new installation dont like last java jvm ..how to fix ?
2021-04-07T19:46:26 < Streaker> set PATH=C:\oldjava\bin;%PATH%;CLASSPATH=C:eclipse.exe
2021-04-07T19:46:31 < Streaker> crap
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2021-04-07T20:16:20 < dongs_> > how to fix ?
2021-04-07T20:16:22 < dongs_> delete eclipse
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2021-04-07T20:23:48 < antto> i have to agree with mr dongs_, but you gotta hold shift before pressing delete
2021-04-07T20:24:57 < boddax> lol dongs good idea i delete it and then drink beer
2021-04-07T20:26:12 < antto> no, pepsi
2021-04-07T20:26:13 < Steffanx> then reinstall and remove it again, then drink beer?
2021-04-07T20:26:15 < Steffanx> etc. etc.?
2021-04-07T20:26:23 < Steffanx> pepsi? Are you alright?
2021-04-07T20:26:41 < antto> my nose ain't wurking :/
2021-04-07T20:27:08 < antto> but that's not pepsi's fault
2021-04-07T20:27:21 < Steffanx> Got coronizzled?
2021-04-07T20:27:27 < antto> no idea
2021-04-07T20:27:52 < antto> i surely got *something* but..
2021-04-07T20:28:05 < boddax> wait by the river long enough, the bodies of eclipse will float by
2021-04-07T20:31:30 < boddax> pepsi for the kids
2021-04-07T20:31:59 < boddax> me and my dog we drink red horse beer
2021-04-07T20:32:40 < antto> o_O
2021-04-07T20:33:29 < Steffanx> Drinking beer from the Philippines mr boddax ?
2021-04-07T20:33:50 < boddax> dont know where coming but taste good
2021-04-07T20:35:11 < Steffanx> wikipedia says Philippines
2021-04-07T20:35:17 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Horse_Beer
2021-04-07T20:35:27 < boddax> i have no problems with philippines lol
2021-04-07T20:35:41 < Steffanx> me neither
2021-04-07T20:35:58 < Steffanx> Hows the covid treating you boddax?
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2021-04-07T20:36:09 < boddax> try that beer Steffanx then tell me
2021-04-07T20:36:17 < Steffanx> Im not really into beer
2021-04-07T20:36:38 < boddax> nothing never got till now for what i know
2021-04-07T20:37:16 < boddax> my coffin from amazon still under the bed
2021-04-07T20:38:19 < boddax> what you drink with sturmtroofell Steffanx ?
2021-04-07T20:38:45 < Steffanx> sturmtroofell  what?
2021-04-07T20:38:48 < Steffanx> stroopwafel?
2021-04-07T20:39:00 < boddax> yes
2021-04-07T20:39:20 < Steffanx> Coffee, tea, water, some more strong drink. Whatever at hand really.
2021-04-07T20:39:46 < boddax> maybe Prosecco fit
2021-04-07T20:40:12 < Steffanx> wine.. unlikely that is what i have at hand :P
2021-04-07T20:41:03 < boddax> gezondheid
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2021-04-07T20:43:14 < Steffanx> grazie mille boddax 
2021-04-07T20:51:54 < Steffanx> is that even proper italian, boddax ?
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2021-04-07T20:52:30 < boddax> yes Steffanx
2021-04-07T20:52:36 < boddax> Salute
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2021-04-07T23:42:00 < karlp> hah, generated sbrk from a cube project is completely different from the one in the demo projects!
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--- Day changed Thu Apr 08 2021
2021-04-08T00:02:05 < Steffanx> You know every room in the cube is different karlp.  Each room with possible new/different traps.
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2021-04-08T01:10:26 < karlp> heh
2021-04-08T01:10:29 < karlp> I feel like the movie.
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2021-04-08T01:11:46 < kakium69> hello blaxter
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2021-04-08T01:45:39 < Steffanx> Hello 69
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2021-04-08T01:54:10 < Steffanx> Why are you always up so late mr kakium69 
2021-04-08T01:54:32 < kakium69> idk
2021-04-08T01:55:04 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/jVBUtZ9
2021-04-08T01:55:09 < machinehum> Length matching time
2021-04-08T01:55:20 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565264330929733674/829489258673733632/1617832357047.png
2021-04-08T01:55:23 < rajkosto> thats not going to go well
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2021-04-08T01:56:16 < machinehum> What why not
2021-04-08T02:11:28 < kakium69> steff: it's not even very late
2021-04-08T02:29:18 < brdb> say for the stm32f051 (or similar) the datasheets cover stm32f051x4, ..x6, and ..x8 -- what is the difference between these and where is it listed here? I haven't been able to find any
2021-04-08T02:29:31 < brdb> trying to find something in stock that's an interchange part for my design given that nearly all of them are bloody out of stock
2021-04-08T02:30:50 < brdb> i think its just the flash memory
2021-04-08T02:35:00 < brdb> yeah 99% sure its just flash memory sizes of 16, 32, or 64kbyte
2021-04-08T02:55:08 < rajkosto> thats usually what the last number means
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2021-04-08T02:58:28 < englishman> brdb: step 1) open datasheet https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f051c4.pdf
2021-04-08T02:58:40 < englishman> step 2) click on "8 ordering information" bookmark
2021-04-08T02:58:51 < englishman> step 3) use the secret decoder wheel
2021-04-08T03:16:43 < kakium69> I had a dream
2021-04-08T03:16:57 < kakium69> motorcycles were not allowed in train
2021-04-08T03:19:29 < kakium69> train was heckin nice though
2021-04-08T03:21:46 < kakium69> it was bar terrace on rails
2021-04-08T03:22:09 < englishman> if a train is going 100km/h but you are brapping on your moto in the train going 100km/h towards the rear of the train and the train crashes will you be ok
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2021-04-08T03:35:21 < kakium69> or just park at rear and leave it to neutral
2021-04-08T03:35:44 < kakium69> when it crashes just start braking from 100km/h
2021-04-08T03:38:23 < kakium69> way harder
2021-04-08T03:38:46 < kakium69> establish balance first
2021-04-08T03:40:53 < kakium69> establish balance and driving line while accelerated to 100km/h wheel speed in a fraction of second
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2021-04-08T05:10:00 < landwork> Hi everyone, does anyone know specifically what the STM32F1BCX variants are?
2021-04-08T05:10:19 < landwork> It's difficult to find documentation, but apparently they are for Chinese market only.
2021-04-08T05:10:38 < landwork> Are they clones, or legitimate devices, and how do they differ from official STM32F103 for example.
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2021-04-08T07:54:06 < machinehum> I've never heard of those parts before
2021-04-08T07:54:13 < machinehum> The must be really Chinese
2021-04-08T07:54:16 < machinehum> they*
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2021-04-08T09:55:56 < machinehum> This fucking azonenberg cocksucker knows his/her shit
2021-04-08T09:57:17 < jpa-> but what makes him a "fucking cocksucker"?
2021-04-08T09:57:54 < machinehum> I'm going to be honest with you bud
2021-04-08T09:58:09 < machinehum> I've been watching a lot or trailer park boys
2021-04-08T09:58:37 < machinehum> And pretty much everything is a cocksucker these days
2021-04-08T09:58:59 < machinehum> I can't help it dude, sorry, Canadian.
2021-04-08T10:00:52 < jpa-> you'll fit great on this channel them
2021-04-08T10:03:26 < machinehum> I've actually been hanging here for years
2021-04-08T10:03:53 < jpa-> sure, but now you'll fit in
2021-04-08T10:04:34 < machinehum> PaulFertser has been making fun of me for not knowing tlc or whatever that stupid lang is since 2015
2021-04-08T10:05:04 < machinehum> PaulFertser: congrats on the release
2021-04-08T10:06:03 < Steffanx> TLC -_-
2021-04-08T10:06:48 < mawk> tcl is a very well known lang
2021-04-08T10:06:50 < jpa-> machinehum is so high on THC that he can't spell TCL
2021-04-08T10:07:05 < ventyl> jpa-: btw, thanks for suggestion, after some trial and error, I've found that this great app runs, albeit only in APP1 and APP2 slots. If I put it into APP3 slot, then it corrupts FPGA binary
2021-04-08T10:07:09 < Steffanx> Nah he meant the TV station.  His favourite. 
2021-04-08T10:07:26 < Steffanx> He's like a overweight wedding dresser house wife.
2021-04-08T10:07:45 < Steffanx> Imagine TLC once meant The Learning Channel
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2021-04-08T10:08:00 < machinehum> Well now I've fucked that one up
2021-04-08T10:08:30 < machinehum> I'm curious who knows wtf tlc even is?
2021-04-08T10:08:40 < Steffanx> How often you use weed or other drug machinehum ?
2021-04-08T10:08:54 < Steffanx> And do you speak French?
2021-04-08T10:08:57 < PaulFertser> machinehum: hey. Thank you. The release seems to be good so far. btw, I'm just doing a little bit of management there, not really contributing code lately.
2021-04-08T10:08:58 < machinehum> Steffanx: you want the honest answer?
2021-04-08T10:09:01 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-04-08T10:09:05 < Steffanx> Ofcourse 
2021-04-08T10:09:41 < Steffanx> I wont judge
2021-04-08T10:09:50 < Steffanx> Just want to know how much Canadian you are
2021-04-08T10:10:11 < PaulFertser> machinehum: I do not remember making fun of you though, and I'm not an expert on Tcl myself. However it seems to be a relatively straightforward language, so it's reasonably easy to use whenever a need arises.
2021-04-08T10:10:16 < t4nk_freenode> quien es el mas macho!
2021-04-08T10:10:38 < Steffanx> Yo no hablo español mi amigo
2021-04-08T10:10:56 < t4nk_freenode> eheh... yo lo mismo ;)
2021-04-08T10:10:58 < machinehum> Well it's a long fucking story bud. I lived down in Seattle working for the Zuck, smoking weed and getting drunk every night of my life
2021-04-08T10:11:11 < t4nk_freenode> or.. tan poco, orsth :b
2021-04-08T10:11:42 < Steffanx> Lol you speak spanish t4nk_freenode ?
2021-04-08T10:11:47 < t4nk_freenode> I Can however confir having thought about you, Steffanx, a day or so back, when I bought stroopwafels in your honor
2021-04-08T10:12:07 < machinehum> PaulFertser: Nah I'm just fucking with you, I was learning to use openocd ages ago. I thought I had to know tcl and you were like dude rtfm
2021-04-08T10:12:21 < t4nk_freenode> eh... I pretend a lot, but I don't think I reallyreally speak spanish
2021-04-08T10:12:49 < machinehum> Steffanx: Basically I had a major panic attack
2021-04-08T10:12:51 < t4nk_freenode> haven't touched my stroopwafels yet thouth
2021-04-08T10:13:00 < machinehum> Which is like a fucking real fucking thing
2021-04-08T10:13:06 < PaulFertser> machinehum: :) btw, openocd has an RPC so if you want to script something special you can do it in any language.
2021-04-08T10:13:23 < machinehum> Calling 911 crying is not a fun thing to do
2021-04-08T10:13:26 < machinehum>  PaulFertser Sick
2021-04-08T10:13:42 < PaulFertser> Slick you meant?
2021-04-08T10:13:56 < machinehum> I use that shit at work and tell all the pussies that don't understand it to fuck off
2021-04-08T10:14:14 < machinehum> The funniest thing
2021-04-08T10:14:20 < machinehum> wtf was is called
2021-04-08T10:14:48 < Steffanx> Machinehum: Alright. Understandable it gave you a panic attack. 
2021-04-08T10:14:57 < Steffanx> Working for the Zuck. 
2021-04-08T10:15:03 < ventyl> :>
2021-04-08T10:15:18 < machinehum> Some stuid "product" they bundled mircosoft VS with openocd/gcc/gdb and sold it for 200$
2021-04-08T10:15:26 < machinehum> Made me so fucking mad
2021-04-08T10:15:36 < PaulFertser> Sounds like VisualGDB
2021-04-08T10:15:37 < machinehum> they're like "very good prodict"
2021-04-08T10:15:40 < machinehum> Yes
2021-04-08T10:15:43 < Steffanx> And did you get one too whe  the news about the 0.5 billion accounts leaked machinehum ? I hold you responsible for that now
2021-04-08T10:15:46 < machinehum> That is what is was
2021-04-08T10:15:56 < machinehum> This shit is fucking cancer
2021-04-08T10:16:03 < machinehum> Like hey
2021-04-08T10:16:12 < machinehum> Fuck I can't even take it
2021-04-08T10:16:18 < ventyl> like pretty much every other Vendor-provided (read: enforced) IDE
2021-04-08T10:16:53 < PaulFertser> I think if I was drinking every night I wouldn't be able to work, shit's too disruptive. machinehum must have good health and strong mind :)
2021-04-08T10:17:04 < machinehum> Anyways those fucking MS cunts are so fucking obsessed with their monolithic shit
2021-04-08T10:17:10 < ventyl> yes sir, your license is $3000 per seat per year, yes sir, of course it is floating. but sir? your seat can'
2021-04-08T10:17:31 < ventyl> t be more than 60km apart geographically to share one seat. do you understand, sir?
2021-04-08T10:18:28 < machinehum> PaulFertser: I need to get this shit under control. But yeah the future
2021-04-08T10:18:44 < machinehum> sitting around working for the zuck
2021-04-08T10:19:30 < machinehum> I would probably kill myself if all these loosers didn't use unix
2021-04-08T10:19:40 < machinehum> I would not*
2021-04-08T10:20:20 < machinehum> I hate OSX, I hate+=1 Windows
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2021-04-08T10:21:29 < machinehum> hmm okay wild comment
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2021-04-08T10:21:36 < machinehum> Not going to engage
2021-04-08T10:21:53 < PaulFertser> machinehum: what's your favourite window manager?
2021-04-08T10:21:58 < machinehum> i3
2021-04-08T10:22:11 < machinehum> I tried dwm
2021-04-08T10:22:19 < machinehum> wasn't for me
2021-04-08T10:22:39 < PaulFertser> machinehum: I used ion3 for a while
2021-04-08T10:22:57 < machinehum> never heard of it tbh
2021-04-08T10:23:19 < PaulFertser> machinehum: then switched to XMonad.
2021-04-08T10:23:39 < PaulFertser> machinehum: ion3 is mostly about static layouts, driven in Lua
2021-04-08T10:24:22 < PaulFertser> R2COM: it would be odd to deny haskell has its niche and even market share.
2021-04-08T10:24:44 < machinehum> For me I just don't know what else a new wm can add
2021-04-08T10:24:47 < upgrdman> usb-c pros: if a device just wants 5V <500mA, can the device leave CC1/CC2 floating and ignore them?
2021-04-08T10:25:14 < machinehum> upgrdman: What?
2021-04-08T10:25:26 < PaulFertser> R2COM: it's not as hardcore as Coq/Agda but still strict enough to be useful where proving correctness is essential. And once you're already interested in Haskell why not use a WM written in it?
2021-04-08T10:25:42 < upgrdman> machinehum, does a usb device need to pull down CC1/CC2?
2021-04-08T10:25:51 < machinehum> what
2021-04-08T10:25:51 < jpa-> upgrdman: no, it should have two 5.1k+-10% pulldowns on them, otherwise USB-C host ports may ignore it
2021-04-08T10:26:20 < upgrdman> k
2021-04-08T10:26:21 < upgrdman> thx
2021-04-08T10:26:21 < machinehum> upgrdman: Why tf would you ask me? lol jpa- got this shit
2021-04-08T10:26:32 < upgrdman> machinehum, i didn't ask you
2021-04-08T10:26:43 < upgrdman> i said "usb-c pros" ...
2021-04-08T10:26:50 < machinehum> My name was is the comment
2021-04-08T10:27:02 < upgrdman> where?
2021-04-08T10:27:22 < machinehum> someone else confirm
2021-04-08T10:27:43 < upgrdman> machinehum forget to takes his medication again :/ lol
2021-04-08T10:27:57 < jpa-> yeah, machinehum is too high now
2021-04-08T10:28:04 < PaulFertser> 10:25 < upgrdman> machinehum, does a usb device need to pull down CC1/CC2?
2021-04-08T10:28:05 < machinehum> fair
2021-04-08T10:28:10 < jpa-> first asks "what" and then when he gets a reply, goes "why do you ask me???"
2021-04-08T10:28:32 < upgrdman> PaulFertser, that was AFTER he said "what" :)
2021-04-08T10:28:37 < machinehum> I am fucking drunk.
2021-04-08T10:28:42 < upgrdman> k
2021-04-08T10:28:46 < PaulFertser> upgrdman: right but his nick was mentioned in the message, so you both are right :)
2021-04-08T10:28:48 < machinehum> lol
2021-04-08T10:29:00 < jpa-> nice thing is that 5.1k +- 10% is ok for 4.7k +- 1%, so no need to have separate BOM line
2021-04-08T10:29:38 < machinehum> Anyone have a hot take on the risc-5 stuff?
2021-04-08T10:30:04 < jpa-> you mean risc-v?
2021-04-08T10:30:09 < machinehum> whatever
2021-04-08T10:30:16 < machinehum> yes
2021-04-08T10:30:21 < jpa-> expertise confirmed
2021-04-08T10:30:45 < machinehum> zuck shit was like real fucking close to getting that shit going
2021-04-08T10:30:53 < machinehum> I was stoked
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2021-04-08T10:31:11 < machinehum> hmm okay i'm drukn
2021-04-08T10:32:25 < t4nk_freenode> did you know that 'poop', and 'poop' are exactly the same ... even though one of em is written backwards??
2021-04-08T10:32:49 < upgrdman> cool. this should work for a stm32 usb device, right? https://imgur.com/a/ctj3722
2021-04-08T10:32:50 < t4nk_freenode> I just thought I mention that, since you.. never mind ;)
2021-04-08T10:32:57 < jpa-> t4nk_freenode: no, poop backwards is qooq
2021-04-08T10:33:01 < machinehum> hmm no leak today eh #stm32 okay whatever
2021-04-08T10:33:02 < t4nk_freenode> hwhw
2021-04-08T10:33:07 < t4nk_freenode> I mean hehe
2021-04-08T10:33:50 < jpa-> upgrdman: looks correct
2021-04-08T10:33:57 < upgrdman> thx
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2021-04-08T10:39:01 < machinehum> zuck is pretty muck confirmed a alien with human skin pulled on top
2021-04-08T10:39:06 < machinehum> Sorry boys
2021-04-08T10:39:32 < machinehum> like I work for that asshold but I'm with you
2021-04-08T10:39:45 < machinehum> Anyways
2021-04-08T10:40:01 < machinehum> I'm drunk as shit
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2021-04-08T10:40:58 < jpa-> do people on this channel even feel strongly about zuckerberg? i certainly don't
2021-04-08T10:41:17 < jpa-> he seems pretty irrelevant to my life
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2021-04-08T10:45:12 < zyp> same
2021-04-08T10:45:44 < srk> same
2021-04-08T10:45:48 < t4nk_freenode> .
2021-04-08T10:46:24 < ventyl> i don't care about the whole facebook stuff. i've left it almost 10 years ago and don't feel any loss doing so
2021-04-08T10:47:04 < srk> `The whole Libra/Diem token (or whatever they’re calling its remains this week) was a failed Facebook initiative exploiting the gaping regulatory loophole where if you simply call yourself a cryptocurrency platform (regardless of any technology) you can effectively function as a shadow bank and money transmistter with no license, all while performing roughly the same function as a bank but with magic 
2021-04-08T10:47:10 < srk> monopoly money that you can print with no oversight while your customers assume full counterparty risk. If that sounds like a terrible idea, it’s because it is. But we fully expect that level of evil behavior from Facebookers because that’s kind of their thing.`
2021-04-08T10:48:43 < ventyl> heh, why being so specific about Facebook?
2021-04-08T10:49:03 < ventyl> you are completely missing the forest due to individual trees
2021-04-08T10:49:24 < ventyl> once it goes corporate, it goes evil
2021-04-08T10:49:53 < ventyl> MS nowadays has nice smiley face of Satya, but in core it is same dirty evil it was in 90s
2021-04-08T10:51:11 < srk> ofc, their whole pro-opensource act looks so fake :)
2021-04-08T10:52:57 < Steffanx> Are you cancelling Microsoft here?
2021-04-08T10:59:05 < jpa-> microsoft doesn't have to been doing much evilness lately
2021-04-08T10:59:13 < jpa-> *seem to have..
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2021-04-08T11:09:32 < ds2> they are definitely much less evil then G00G
2021-04-08T11:14:55 < ventyl> they just didn't have chance to show their abilities
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2021-04-08T11:15:12 < ventyl> but one 0day was sufficient for source code vanishing from github unprecedently
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2021-04-08T11:19:57 < jadew> https://7news.com.au/entertainment/viral-weird/china-wedding-chaos-as-bride-reportedly-revealed-to-be-grooms-long-lost-sister-c-2534333
2021-04-08T11:26:45 < jadew> the theory online is that this had to do with the one child policy, because of which many girls were left out to die in the wilderness or just left on the side of the road
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2021-04-08T14:07:09 < karlp> TIL that some conformal coatings can be used to _improve_ heat dissipation
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2021-04-08T14:08:10 < zyp> makes sense, as long as they are good heat conductors
2021-04-08T14:08:32 < zyp> while still being electrically nonconductive
2021-04-08T14:09:24 < karlp> yeah, just had sort of assumed of them as being insulators
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2021-04-08T14:09:37 < karlp> but I guess no-one would really ever want that :)
2021-04-08T14:09:46 < BrainDamage> yeah, electrical condution grants thermal, but you can also have phonon mediated thermal conduction
2021-04-08T14:09:57 < BrainDamage> it's rare, but it's there
2021-04-08T14:10:09 < BrainDamage> I mean, it's rare for it to be strong
2021-04-08T14:10:31 < BrainDamage> eg mica sheets to insulate transistor's tabs to heatsinks
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2021-04-08T14:12:32 < BrainDamage> iirc diamonds too have that, fwiw
2021-04-08T14:12:40 < BrainDamage> diamond conformal coating
2021-04-08T14:12:56 < BrainDamage> for that shiny look
2021-04-08T14:13:01 < karlp> listening to a webinar from these duders: https://www.hzo.com/solutions/protection-capabilities/
2021-04-08T14:13:28 < karlp> wouldn't recommend the webinar, it's far too slow, but, hey, i learnt something new.
2021-04-08T14:14:02 < karlp> also, fucking st.  included the same stnadard "app_debug" file as in the demo apps in the new generated app, but... didn't actually call it.
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2021-04-08T14:14:36 < karlp> but finally have a project built from a scratch new start cubemx project that actually works now.
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2021-04-08T14:20:33 < karlp> well. spoke too soon.
2021-04-08T14:20:38  * karlp debugs.
2021-04-08T14:20:56 < karlp> life's good everybody... I love eclipse.  everything's shiny and great...
2021-04-08T14:21:45 < BrainDamage> eclipse is the right amount of enterprise look to have business adopt it
2021-04-08T14:22:11 < BrainDamage> and the right amount of dysfunctionality to get everyone else to hate itt
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2021-04-08T14:23:16 < karlp> I can't even comprehend why "go to references" on a symbol opens a list of results, with the firest result, highlighted, is a function of the same name in another project.
2021-04-08T14:23:19 < karlp> just.. what.
2021-04-08T14:23:26 < zyp> haha
2021-04-08T14:23:38 < karlp> how do even the eclipse developers themselves not run into that
2021-04-08T14:24:19 < karlp> ok... it tells me the wwdg handler is running... I suspect it is lying...
2021-04-08T14:25:49 < karlp> ok. gdb vcstate to the rescue
2021-04-08T14:26:05  * karlp lurns to cube.
2021-04-08T14:26:33 < srk> why do you struggle with these tools?
2021-04-08T14:27:40 < zyp> probably because it seemed an easier path than reverse engineering the wb radio stack IPC to get it working with anything else
2021-04-08T14:29:05 < karlp> https://31.media.tumblr.com/d633a9a37d9071cfbe11f68844eac75c/tumblr_inline_nww5a9xGzH1sgm97w_500.gif
2021-04-08T14:29:23 < karlp> and yeah, what he said.
2021-04-08T14:35:18 < srk> aah :)
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2021-04-08T14:43:50 < karlp> heh, UM1718 is in rev 34.
2021-04-08T14:43:55  * karlp tries reading the docs
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2021-04-08T15:10:31 < fenugrec> what are the extra delays ordering from dk / mous these days ?
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2021-04-08T15:57:38 < t4nk_freenode> fenugrec, .. I sent out a courier with that exact question a few months ago; he never made it back :|
2021-04-08T15:57:41 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
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2021-04-08T15:58:02 < t4nk_freenode> but I don't think there is much delay?
2021-04-08T15:59:05 < t4nk_freenode> untracked packages are a nightmare, but the rest is shipping fine for me
2021-04-08T16:01:36 < t4nk_freenode> in fact, they shoved a package into my letterbox just now and I'm too lazy to go get it
2021-04-08T16:04:10 < zyp> fenugrec, the couple of orders I've placed at digikey recently have been processed immediately
2021-04-08T16:06:03 < zyp> and UPS shipping has also been two days to norway like usual
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2021-04-08T16:39:25 < fenugrec> zyp, thx. A few weeks back some guy locally waited 5-6 days which is extremely unusual for dk
2021-04-08T16:40:44 < fenugrec> (heh, perfect solution for PCB patches when prototyping fancy ISA eth cards https://www.rusander.com/pcb-jumper-wire )
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2021-04-08T18:08:16 < karlp> wht's the name of that compression library someone ws using here, shrinkwrap or something?
2021-04-08T18:20:12 < jpa-> maybe https://github.com/atomicobject/heatshrink ?
2021-04-08T18:24:20 < Xogium> jpa-: hah fancy seeing you here ;)
2021-04-08T18:27:21 < qyx> karlp: heatshrink
2021-04-08T18:34:32 < karlp> that's it.
2021-04-08T18:38:30 < karlp> nice. I have an unhandled interrupt hitting a while(1) loop in the handler.
2021-04-08T18:38:40 < karlp> but another irq is happily running at a higher priority keeping dma fed.
2021-04-08T18:38:43 < karlp> pretty.
2021-04-08T18:39:56 < Steffanx> Lol everyone knows jpa- 
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2021-04-08T18:41:16 < Steffanx> t4nk_freenode: did you know mouser accepts ideal nowadays? Such dutch feature
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2021-04-08T18:46:17 < karlp> feck, if "vector 19" is active, the bottom bits of icsr, is that _priority_ 19, from -3 up through the system exceptions and into positive, or is that the actual peripheral position vector number?
2021-04-08T18:46:52 < jpa-> i always have to search for that information also
2021-04-08T18:48:23 < jpa-> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0646/a/the-cortex-m7-processor/programmers-model/core-registers   says 0 = thread mode, 3 = hardfault etc, so seems like vector number
2021-04-08T18:49:06 < zyp> yes, vector number
2021-04-08T18:49:07 < jpa-> vector 19 would then be IRQ3
2021-04-08T18:49:11 < zyp> correct
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2021-04-08T18:50:22 < karlp> irq_3_ ? what.
2021-04-08T18:51:13 < karlp> ok, external irq 3
2021-04-08T18:52:22 < karlp> ok. thanks for the nice table layout st.  RTC_WKUP.
2021-04-08T18:52:30 < karlp> well, I wonder what the fuck uses that.
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2021-04-08T18:52:41 < karlp> at least that makes sense.
2021-04-08T18:52:47 < zyp> radio stack?
2021-04-08T18:52:56 < karlp> I was getting USB_HP, or unrelated timers.
2021-04-08T18:53:49 < karlp> eyah, it's gotta be the radio, just not sure what.
2021-04-08T18:54:02 < karlp> should be easy now that I have a sane irq.
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2021-04-08T19:01:54 < karlp> I feel like cubeide should have better support for telling me what IRQ this is....
2021-04-08T19:02:08 < karlp> because this is garbage: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bqK3i/thanks-for-the-counting-st.png
2021-04-08T19:03:46 < jpa-> such high tech, didn't even have to print it to count with a pencil
2021-04-08T19:05:27 < karlp> well, I only made that to complain actually, in reality I just lined up systick and wwdg, and started counting forom there.
2021-04-08T19:05:56 < jpa-> :)
2021-04-08T19:06:24 < karlp> fucking lame as shit boring unfun parts https://bin.jvnv.net/file/s59Fp.png
2021-04-08T19:06:32 < karlp> when do I get to do the fun bits of the actual app I want to do?
2021-04-08T19:07:44 < zyp> never, you'll get tired of it before you get that far
2021-04-08T19:08:11 < jpa-> i can confirm, that always happens
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2021-04-08T19:16:26 < karlp> hrm, don't see anyway of setting up the rtc irq handler in cubemx, you just have to amke it by hand.
2021-04-08T19:16:39 < karlp> and indeed, in the other demo app, it's manually added in the "user" section of the file..
2021-04-08T19:16:49  * karlp copies and pastes like a mad stack overflower.
2021-04-08T19:18:24 < Xogium> so, curiosity's sake, anyone here worked with the first st mpu yet ?
2021-04-08T19:18:41 < karlp> which one are you implying is the second?
2021-04-08T19:18:51 < Xogium> none so far
2021-04-08T19:18:56 < Xogium> that I know of, anyway
2021-04-08T19:19:07 < Xogium> I meant first as oposed to working with mcu
2021-04-08T19:22:33 < Xogium> I mean stm32mp ;)
2021-04-08T19:23:20 < karlp> mp_1_ even ;)
2021-04-08T19:23:23 < karlp> yeah, a few people have.
2021-04-08T19:23:25 < karlp> nt me though
2021-04-08T19:23:48 < Xogium> fair
2021-04-08T19:23:51 < Xogium> :D
2021-04-08T19:23:57 < Xogium> mp1 it is
2021-04-08T19:25:36 < Xogium> I was curious if the 650 mhz vs 800 really makes a huge difference in most case, that is for example on stm32mp157c vs stm32mp157f
2021-04-08T19:26:04 < Xogium> though, I suppose it could be dependent on what you're working on too much to be useful as as general rule
2021-04-08T19:26:10 < Xogium> *as a
2021-04-08T19:26:13 < jpa-> well, it makes slightly less than 23% of difference
2021-04-08T19:26:34 < jpa-> less because of memory access latencies, but not very much less because of cache
2021-04-08T19:27:09 < Xogium> ah, yes, that cache
2021-04-08T19:28:03 < Xogium> to be fair its my first time working with anything from st, but I really found the doc nice :)
2021-04-08T19:31:50 < Xogium> but I sure am curious if the folks that used it here have done so using the mainline linux kernel. I'm having some issue with it and I don't know how to debug that part just yet
2021-04-08T19:32:21 < Xogium> basically usb otg being flaky and not working 80% of the time at boot ;)
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2021-04-08T20:05:58 < machinehum> i hangover
2021-04-08T20:08:11 < t4nk_freenode> in Uzbekistan, where I live, we have a saying: 
2021-04-08T20:08:24 < t4nk_freenode> big boy in the morning, big boy in the evening.
2021-04-08T20:09:48 < karlp> are you trying to use gadget mode stuff?
2021-04-08T20:10:19 < t4nk_freenode> Steffanx, ... yeah, nice of them to do ideal
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2021-04-08T20:14:29 < machinehum> t4nk_freenode: That fucking rules I'm taking that
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2021-04-08T20:15:40 < t4nk_freenode> my mum used to present that to me, whenever I was fishing for pity
2021-04-08T20:17:09 < machinehum> So what's going on it Uzbekistan?
2021-04-08T20:17:13 < machinehum> in
2021-04-08T20:18:06 < englishman> did you really get a job at redmond for MS machinehum 
2021-04-08T20:21:58 < machinehum> Oculus
2021-04-08T20:22:03 < machinehum> yeah
2021-04-08T20:22:13 < machinehum> I contracted for MS a while back
2021-04-08T20:22:39 < t4nk_freenode> caterer?
2021-04-08T20:23:05 < machinehum> Yeah totally I make all the food
2021-04-08T20:23:17 < machinehum> KD with fucking cutup little hotdogs
2021-04-08T20:24:11 < t4nk_freenode> I may try that in my spaghetti some day
2021-04-08T20:24:27 < t4nk_freenode> like Sheldon
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2021-04-08T20:27:59 < machinehum> A couple months ago the grocery store was on fire so I had to go to the filipino store
2021-04-08T20:28:24 < machinehum> Fuck that food is wild that fucking spaghetti sause with all the sugar
2021-04-08T20:28:34 < machinehum> And those sausages soaked in syrup
2021-04-08T20:28:42 < ventyl> now I am hungry
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2021-04-08T20:30:20 < machinehum> Not for this fucking food
2021-04-08T20:30:40 < machinehum> I remember checking out the lady was like oh wow you like this food?
2021-04-08T20:31:02 < machinehum> Thinking I'm getting normal fucking spaghetti sauce and sausages
2021-04-08T20:31:07 < machinehum> idiot
2021-04-08T20:31:23 < machinehum> She gave me a bag of chips...
2021-04-08T20:31:27 < machinehum> beef flavor
2021-04-08T20:31:31 < machinehum> what in the fuck
2021-04-08T20:43:11 < englishman> congrats on graduation then, mh
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2021-04-08T20:50:38 < BorgCuba> hi, I've got a low power question:
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2021-04-08T20:50:51 < zyp> ok
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2021-04-08T20:51:55 < BorgCuba> thats my plan: reset -> init -> do_sth -> wfi .... intr_handler(rtc) -> init -> do_sth -> sleep
2021-04-08T20:52:16 < BorgCuba> my question: is this good or should I return from interrupt and go to sleep?
2021-04-08T20:52:32 < ventyl> you have to return from interrupt
2021-04-08T20:52:56 < zyp> I'm not sure I understand what you mean
2021-04-08T20:53:28 < BorgCuba> I fear I may crash the stack
2021-04-08T20:53:38 < ventyl> and if this is about servicing periodic tasks, then why not sleep all the time and wake up CPU by interrupt?
2021-04-08T20:53:59 < BorgCuba> ventyl, that sounds good
2021-04-08T20:54:15 < BorgCuba> how would you do that?
2021-04-08T20:54:20 < ventyl> well, if you don't return from interrupt, then you won't get any more interrupts (at least not of that kind, but most probably not even some others)
2021-04-08T20:54:27 < zyp> how long will you be sleeping at a time?
2021-04-08T20:54:51 < BorgCuba> zyp, thats not decided
2021-04-08T20:54:58 < BorgCuba> some N seconds
2021-04-08T20:55:19 < zyp> the deepest sleep modes doesn't preserve ram contents, so a wakeup implies a full reset
2021-04-08T20:56:01 < zyp> and if you're getting a full reset anyway, it doesn't really matter much what state the system were in when you went to sleep, since you're starting fresh anyway
2021-04-08T20:56:35 < BorgCuba> zyp, yes
2021-04-08T20:57:39 < zyp> what wakeup sources will you have? you mentioned rtc, any other?
2021-04-08T20:57:54 < BorgCuba> no, just rtc for now
2021-04-08T20:58:17 < zyp> then you probably want the deepest mode
2021-04-08T20:58:55 < ventyl> and do you need to preserve some complex context between wake-ups?
2021-04-08T20:59:26 < zyp> that can be stored in backup registers or backup sram if that's present
2021-04-08T20:59:51 < BorgCuba> The idea is to wakeup periodically take some measurements and go to sleep
2021-04-08T20:59:51 < ventyl> that's why I am asking explicitly about `complex` context. such thing might not fit there
2021-04-08T21:00:07 < BorgCuba> This also means that I probably need the sram
2021-04-08T21:00:42 < machinehum> englishman: Thanks it was part time stuff
2021-04-08T21:01:09 < BorgCuba> I am looking at paragraph 6.3 of rm360 at the moment, but its very short
2021-04-08T21:02:40 < BorgCuba> when wfe is executed an the event is enabled (EXTI17 for rtc iirc) where does execution start after the event is active? Does this depend on the mode? Zyp mentioned reset for standy mode
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2021-04-08T21:08:28 < BorgCuba> So fram what I read in the RM0360 my understanding is: for sleep and stop execution should continue with the instruction just after wfe and for standby it will start from reset-vector
2021-04-08T21:08:41 < BorgCuba> understanding or guesing
2021-04-08T21:09:26 < BorgCuba> time to test
2021-04-08T21:11:37 < zyp> for other sleep modes that preserves state, it'll continue from where it paused after a wfi/wfe
2021-04-08T21:12:40 < zyp> rtc wakeup shouldn't require going via an exti
2021-04-08T21:24:20 < BorgCuba> okay, now it works
2021-04-08T21:24:54 < BorgCuba> I forgot to set the ALRAIE bit the the RTC_CR register
2021-04-08T21:25:26 < BorgCuba> would be interesting to see the current curves
2021-04-08T21:30:48 < BorgCuba> and my bcd math seems buggy
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2021-04-08T21:41:35 < qyx> you need to configure exti for rtc wakeup
2021-04-08T21:41:39 < qyx> at least the RM on L4 says so
2021-04-08T21:41:51 < qyx> there are "implicit" exti lines and a configurable ones
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2021-04-08T22:00:36 < zyp> oh, right
2021-04-08T22:00:53 < zyp> it has a dedicated vector, but it's routed through the EXTI block
2021-04-08T22:01:08 < zyp> haven't noticed that before
2021-04-08T22:02:08 < zyp> hmm, I guess that's because EXTI can be active and respond to events even in deepest sleep, while NVIC is also turned off?
2021-04-08T22:03:46 < boddax> who's coding avr  ?
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2021-04-08T22:05:40 < zyp> ah, yeah, only EXTI can wake up from stop mode and only a limited set of EXTI signals can wake up from standby mode
2021-04-08T22:07:07 < BorgCuba> why must the rtc be in bcd format?
2021-04-08T22:07:39 < BorgCuba> its horrible
2021-04-08T22:07:41 < boddax> bcos i m porting this github from attiny to  328p and its working but brhavoir is contrary of what expected led on when need to off https://pastebin.com/kfstvQjp
2021-04-08T22:07:52 < zyp> BorgCuba, yeah
2021-04-08T22:08:03 < boddax> attiny13a to atmega328p
2021-04-08T22:08:13 < zyp> that's pretty much the only thing that f1 does better than the newer families
2021-04-08T22:08:33 < zyp> f1 had a simple counter rtc, not a bcd calendar one
2021-04-08T22:08:38 < Steffann> hows your led connected boddax?
2021-04-08T22:08:45 < BorgCuba> okay, I didnt know that
2021-04-08T22:09:03 < boddax> https://github.com/wagiminator/ATtiny13-TinyProbe
2021-04-08T22:10:03 < boddax> just tested the hex with proteus
2021-04-08T22:11:16 < boddax> expecting hi or low on then its on the fl
2021-04-08T22:11:43 < boddax> with clock simulation
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2021-04-08T22:13:47 < boddax> i guess GPIO, ADC and interrupts wrong bit settings
2021-04-08T22:14:49 < ventyl> aaaaaaaaah
2021-04-08T22:15:41 < ventyl> that code is fugly
2021-04-08T22:15:41 < boddax> uuuuuuh
2021-04-08T22:16:12 < Steffanx> looks pretty straight forward to me
2021-04-08T22:16:21 < ventyl> why use macro values if you can simply pull your pants down and shit nice bitstream right in?
2021-04-08T22:17:41 < Steffanx> Yes, better start using this amzingly cool looking _BV macro.
2021-04-08T22:18:34 < ventyl> at least there is some semantics left in the source code
2021-04-08T22:18:53 < ventyl> 0b0010000 doesn't tell you much about original intention of the author
2021-04-08T22:19:27 < boddax> its just a flags for the interrupts
2021-04-08T22:20:01 < ventyl> but those flags have meaning
2021-04-08T22:20:39 < Steffann> Based on the comments it seems the IO is done right boddax?
2021-04-08T22:20:56 < boddax> yes
2021-04-08T22:21:07 < Steffann> then i dont understand the problem
2021-04-08T22:21:33 < boddax> i will try with real hw ..maybe is just a proteus simulation wrong
2021-04-08T22:31:28 < ventyl> you may try simavr, there you can code your own analog "peripheral"
2021-04-08T22:33:27 < ventyl> https://i.imgur.com/pyipmn3.png
2021-04-08T22:35:40 < Steffann> Typical 2021 twitter user.
2021-04-08T22:36:51 < boddax> she said has headche
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2021-04-08T23:09:55 < bitmask> this fucking website, my cart quantities keep changing randomly
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2021-04-08T23:21:14 < bitmask> what is an acceptable voltage ripple going into a buck converter?
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 09 2021
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2021-04-09T01:10:34 < machinehum> Depends on a bunch of stuff
2021-04-09T01:10:43 < machinehum> Like accecptable ripple on the output an psrr
2021-04-09T01:10:45 < machinehum> and
2021-04-09T01:11:07 < machinehum> If it's like more than 1V you're fucked bud
2021-04-09T01:11:14 < machinehum> Well maybe idk
2021-04-09T01:33:25 < kakium69> hello night crew
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2021-04-09T01:53:57 < karlp> know limitations in cubeide 1.6.1, "The new GCC-9 toolchains produce more warnings than the previous GCC-7 toolchains."
2021-04-09T01:53:59 < karlp> heh
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2021-04-09T02:14:25 < kakium69> encore
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2021-04-09T05:50:02 < upgrdman> anyone know what the stm32 adc sampling capacitor looks like? 2pF?
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2021-04-09T08:26:00 < machinehum> CRA fucking blows
2021-04-09T08:26:23 < machinehum> I'm back on the liquor after fucking with those cunts for like 6hrs
2021-04-09T08:26:46 < machinehum> Some cocksucker pretended he was me and opened a bank account
2021-04-09T08:27:08 < machinehum> Just snagged my fucking tax return
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2021-04-09T08:37:53 < Streaker> machinehum: is that a good thing or a bad thing? I presume he must have deposited money in the account. Can you withdraw it?
2021-04-09T08:38:24 < machinehum> nah like they took all my cash
2021-04-09T08:38:37 < machinehum> Bad thing
2021-04-09T08:38:48 < machinehum> Deposited
2021-04-09T08:39:15 < machinehum> cash from the gov refunt
2021-04-09T08:39:19 < machinehum> refund
2021-04-09T08:39:29 < Streaker> oh. that's not good.
2021-04-09T08:39:59 < machinehum> yes fiat fucking blows I hate the government
2021-04-09T08:40:17 < machinehum> The older I fucking get the more libertarian I get
2021-04-09T08:40:31 < machinehum> Those cunts made me this way
2021-04-09T08:40:48 < machinehum> One thing's for sure I'm getting drukn as shit tonight
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2021-04-09T08:41:23 < jpa-> machinehum: doesn't sound like fiat problem, sounds like problem with USAs banking system
2021-04-09T08:41:52 < machinehum> I'm Canadian
2021-04-09T08:42:03 < jpa-> oh, i thought canada was smarter than that
2021-04-09T08:42:09 < jpa-> how did they manage to impersonate you?
2021-04-09T08:42:18 < machinehum> It's really fucking easy
2021-04-09T08:42:22 < machinehum> They just need to know 
2021-04-09T08:42:47 < machinehum> 1) my name, 2) birthday, 3) SIN
2021-04-09T08:42:57 < machinehum> First two a fucking easy
2021-04-09T08:43:11 < machinehum> 3 Is also not hard
2021-04-09T08:43:29 < jpa-> they don't check ID card when opening account? or if online, some form of government authentication service?
2021-04-09T08:43:32 < machinehum> I'm like two levels down from richard fucking stallman when it comes to privacy
2021-04-09T08:43:41 < machinehum> jpa-: No idea
2021-04-09T08:43:54 < machinehum> Buy somehow a cunt did it
2021-04-09T08:44:07 < jpa-> sounds like banks fault for accepting crap like that, shouldn't they refund you?
2021-04-09T08:45:06 < machinehum> Yeah
2021-04-09T08:45:14 < machinehum> Dude where you from?
2021-04-09T08:45:18 < jpa-> finland
2021-04-09T08:45:24 < machinehum> Okay a good country
2021-04-09T08:45:43 < machinehum> Yeah like they don't have finland shit over here
2021-04-09T08:45:54 < machinehum> Canada is basically the US
2021-04-09T08:46:05 < jpa-> here the crap that identity thieves do is mostly limited to private companies; like they order stuff with your name & address, and then you need to dispute the purchase and arrange return of stuff etc.
2021-04-09T08:46:33 < jpa-> which is of course still annoying as hell, but at least the government & banks & mobile phone operators are quite smart
2021-04-09T08:46:44 < machinehum> There's bunch of fucking people that like using pens and paper nobody knows wtf cryprography even is
2021-04-09T08:46:57 < machinehum> It's a fucking free for all
2021-04-09T08:47:10 < machinehum> The thing that pissed me off the most
2021-04-09T08:47:22 < machinehum> They sent me some shit on how to not get hacked
2021-04-09T08:47:39 < jpa-> we still have some of the pen & paper infrastructure for old people, but one has to specifically opt-in at the bank to be able to e.g. make payments by signing paper forms
2021-04-09T08:47:49 < machinehum> Like fuck you stupid fucking cunts. You fuck-o's know literially nothing
2021-04-09T08:48:16 < machinehum> Well people here have boner's for that shit
2021-04-09T08:48:51 < machinehum> Why did Finland/Sweedn/The other country. get so good?
2021-04-09T08:48:58 < machinehum> There's one other one
2021-04-09T08:49:29 < machinehum> Those fuckers are like wayyyy ahead when it's comes to money/socalissm/politics/internet
2021-04-09T08:50:03 < jpa-> probably a big part is that we don't have so many people, so it is easier to get new stuff through
2021-04-09T08:51:58 < jpa-> one security problem here is that the authentication services have a price for the company, and it is often like 10 cents per one authentication; so crappier companies allow you to "sign" contracts online by just knowing name & social security number; even though that doesn't stand up in court
2021-04-09T08:53:02 < machinehum> The fact the you have "authentication services" is interesting
2021-04-09T08:53:05 < machinehum> Like wtf is that?
2021-04-09T08:53:37 < machinehum> Basically ~10x the amount of people in Canada that are in Finaland
2021-04-09T08:53:56 < machinehum> Finland*
2021-04-09T08:54:25 < jpa-> most people use either bank account or mobile phone account for that; you want to register somewhere that needs to know who you are, it redirects you to authentication site, you check the address bar to know you are actually at e.g. your banks site, input your username, password and one-time-password from e.g. phone app or a paper code list
2021-04-09T08:55:05 < machinehum> Oh so a smart way of Identifying people?
2021-04-09T08:55:18 < jpa-> and to get the bank or mobile phone account in the first place, they check government id card
2021-04-09T08:55:23 < machinehum> Not like the cancer I'm dealing with right now
2021-04-09T08:56:16 < machinehum> What's the immigration situation like there?
2021-04-09T08:56:17 < jpa-> not so sure about "smart", AFAIK estonia has government provided physical and online ID system, so there is not this mess of dealing with bazillion banks and mobile phone operators that provide authentication
2021-04-09T08:56:42 < machinehum> Yes
2021-04-09T08:56:54 < machinehum> That system sound reasonable no?
2021-04-09T08:57:14 < jpa-> immigrants come, we put them in a facility and give them a bunch of money while they wait 3 years for a decision, then we decide "you cannot move to finland" and they run away and live without papers in Helsinki
2021-04-09T08:58:13 < machinehum> huh
2021-04-09T08:58:14 < jpa-> machinehum: yeah, both systems work, but I really think identification services should be provided by the government instead of private companies - after all the companies just rely on government ID card as the final form of identification
2021-04-09T08:58:31 < machinehum> 100% agree with you
2021-04-09T08:58:56 < machinehum> I was actually just bitching to all my friends making the exact same argument
2021-04-09T08:59:27 < machinehum> So like, I started working in the US which is the most anti-immigration place in the world
2021-04-09T08:59:40 < jpa-> estonia also has this funny stuff where they provide identification for foreigners also: https://e-estonia.com/solutions/e-identity/e-residency
2021-04-09T08:59:41 < machinehum> If I roll up to the finland they would tell me to fuck off?
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2021-04-09T09:00:56 < jpa-> if you had a workplace arranged and the workplace would be willing to submit forms that state "machinehum is really excellent and we cannot find as good worker in finland", it would be pretty straightforward
2021-04-09T09:01:23 < jpa-> you'd get permit of residence for the duration of your work, and if it goes on for 5 years or something you can apply for permanent residence
2021-04-09T09:01:58 < machinehum> coo
2021-04-09T09:02:05 < machinehum> same as Canada
2021-04-09T09:02:17 < machinehum> What's work like there?
2021-04-09T09:02:29 < machinehum> In the context of #stm32 lol
2021-04-09T09:03:23 < jpa-> work itself is pretty same as everywhere, I'd assume; wages are quite a bit lower than in america
2021-04-09T09:03:51 < machinehum> But cost of living is high?
2021-04-09T09:03:55 < machinehum> I heard it waws
2021-04-09T09:03:57 < machinehum> was
2021-04-09T09:05:22 < jpa-> depends on how you live and what you compare to; typical price of apartment varies 500-1000 EUR/month, food for one is 200 - 400 EUR / month, wages for coders are usually 3000-5000 EUR / month of which you get 2000-3500 EUR / month after taxes
2021-04-09T09:06:58 < machinehum> That's like Canadian costs
2021-04-09T09:07:03 < machinehum> Almost dead on
2021-04-09T09:07:14 < machinehum> All those numbers
2021-04-09T09:07:42 < machinehum> Once you talk about working for a yank company things get all wacky
2021-04-09T09:09:42 < jpa-> there is also something funny going on with the work market for coders for the past few years; wages have risen a bit, but for self-employed contractors the prices are much higher; like i could make over 10 000 EUR / month as contractor if i worked full time and just chose the best paying jobs
2021-04-09T09:10:19 < jpa-> but i guess the big if there is finding good work as a contractor
2021-04-09T09:11:10 < machinehum> I've tried to find freelance work
2021-04-09T09:11:26 < machinehum> I mean I didn't try that hard
2021-04-09T09:11:38 < machinehum> But no luck so far
2021-04-09T09:13:04 < jpa-> i've been freelancering for 4 years now; but all the work that pays well feels very boring
2021-04-09T09:13:49 < jpa-> but i guess i'm ok with just getting by, it's not like being richer would make my life significantly better
2021-04-09T09:17:29 < Streaker> jpa-: stm32 stuff or something else?
2021-04-09T09:18:21 < jpa-> both
2021-04-09T09:20:16 < Streaker> I was thinking about the market for freelancing in microcontroller stuff. I thought that it must be very limited because microcontroller coding is so closely tied in to the hardware that it should not be possible to do without the correct device. Which means someone wanting to hire a freelance guy will have to ship their hardware to the freelancer.
2021-04-09T09:20:42 < Xogium> heh, you guys are lucky to find work at all ;) I wish I was that lucky but somehow almost noone feel like hiring a blind person these days
2021-04-09T09:20:59 < jpa-> Streaker: yeah, or have the freelancer design the hardware in the first place
2021-04-09T09:22:23 < jpa-> Streaker: but international shipping is not much of a trouble usually - it did cause problems with one of my clients in 2020 though because suddenly all connections between finland and australia just disappeared
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2021-04-09T09:22:53 < jpa-> so we just sent gerbers & boms & assembled locally, which worked out fine
2021-04-09T09:23:28 < Xogium> and then there's all these other companies that claim they want to hire people but they always require prior experience before hiring you somehow, catch 22 was it ? :D
2021-04-09T09:24:52 < jpa-> Xogium: yeah, sounds pretty familiar
2021-04-09T09:25:21 < zyp> 08:13:05 < jpa-> i've been freelancering for 4 years now; but all the work that pays well feels very boring
2021-04-09T09:25:31 < zyp> the more boring it is, the more they have to pay to attract people
2021-04-09T09:25:40 < Xogium> so I kinda stopped looking after a while ;) not that it makes much difference anyway, 80% of blind people are unemployed
2021-04-09T09:35:25 < jpa-> Xogium: how does it feel writing smileys as a blind person? have you always been blind or can you imagine what ;) looks like?
2021-04-09T09:35:55 < Xogium> always been. I just use them cause I've been told what they mean. Of course people could lie about it hehe
2021-04-09T09:37:39 < jpa-> honestly i could never guess you are blind based on your chats
2021-04-09T09:37:59 < Xogium> hehe yeah I try
2021-04-09T09:39:51 < Xogium> did you folks ever used eurocircuits to do pcb stuff ? I found it, but not sure what it is worth yet. Especially for a first time project or idea
2021-04-09T09:40:55 < Xogium> jlcpcb did look nice, but they only use parts from their own libs, so if you want something specific its meh
2021-04-09T09:41:53 < zyp> also one sided only
2021-04-09T09:42:06 < Streaker> jpa-: blind people know what a smile looks like if they've felt the face of a smiling person.
2021-04-09T09:42:09 < Xogium> true that
2021-04-09T09:42:41 < Xogium> Streaker: but the smiley associated to it only means like… some random character
2021-04-09T09:43:11 < jpa-> Xogium: seeedstudio has PCBA also and they can use parts from digikey or similar
2021-04-09T09:43:22 < Xogium> yeah, so I heard
2021-04-09T09:43:49 < jpa-> Xogium: where do you live?
2021-04-09T09:43:53 < Xogium> my main goal is to avoid custom fees, or at least not have too high ones. Pcbway did look nice but the 30 euros of fees did not :p
2021-04-09T09:43:57 < Xogium> france
2021-04-09T09:45:25 < jpa-> aisler can deliver PCBs quite cheaply from germany; but they have no assembly service unfortunately
2021-04-09T09:45:29 < Xogium> and since its my first try at doing any board, I don't know what's a rip off or a reasonable price for them
2021-04-09T09:46:07 < Xogium> yeah 'd need to have it assembled because well, doing BGA with a soldering iron is pure insanity
2021-04-09T09:46:17 < Xogium> even if I could manage a soldering iron :p
2021-04-09T09:46:50 < jpa-> first project and already BGA? ;)
2021-04-09T09:47:10 < Xogium> well, not my fault, the SoM I wanna use is BGA :(
2021-04-09T09:47:24 < Streaker> Xogium: I didn't think of it that way :)
2021-04-09T09:48:11 < Xogium> I'm kinda doing all the linux stuff on it somehow but yeah
2021-04-09T09:48:34 < jpa-> Xogium: is there a development board for the SoM that you could use instead?
2021-04-09T09:48:39 < Streaker> am I different? when I see semi-colon closing-bracket I don't "see" a semi-colon closing-bracket, I see a smiling face
2021-04-09T09:49:21 < Xogium> hmm yeah, its octavo system though, and at least on mouser you need to sign something, or well, do something, cause it comes from the US
2021-04-09T09:49:34 < jpa-> Streaker: i see smiling face also, but i *think* it is mostly visual pattern matching - i think if i had a big 3D printed text of :), I couldn't "feel" the equivalence with a face
2021-04-09T09:50:29 < jpa-> Xogium: yeah many components have that form about "I will not build a ballistic missile with this", but it's just a matter of accepting the forms
2021-04-09T09:50:45 < Xogium> also er, well, braille chars don't have any kind of resemblance to your own printed chars so the meaning is totally lost unless you've been told what it is for
2021-04-09T09:51:44 < Xogium> ah, somehow thought it was way more involved than that
2021-04-09T09:51:45 < jpa-> Xogium: how about   AO
2021-04-09T09:51:54 < jpa-> err
2021-04-09T09:51:58 < jpa-> KY
2021-04-09T09:52:07 < jpa-> is that a braille smiley? :)
2021-04-09T09:52:24 < Xogium> nop its just k and y
2021-04-09T09:52:54 < Streaker> Xogium: what kind of keyboard do you use?
2021-04-09T09:53:00 < Xogium> regular keyboard
2021-04-09T09:53:05 < Xogium> learned it all by heart
2021-04-09T09:53:09 < jpa-> yeah, i guess human brain doesn't feel it that way, even though a seeing person would see the smile in those dots
2021-04-09T09:55:35 < Xogium> well hmm
2021-04-09T09:57:46 < Xogium> ⠅⠽
2021-04-09T09:57:51 < Xogium> is how it looks like in braille
2021-04-09T09:59:19 < jpa-> ok i guess it looks pretty weird to a seeing person also :)
2021-04-09T09:59:34 < Xogium> hehe yea I bet
2021-04-09T10:00:24 < qyx> 08:47 < Xogium> well, not my fault, the SoM I wanna use is BGA :(
2021-04-09T10:00:26 < qyx> octavo?
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2021-04-09T10:01:05 < Xogium> but yeah what I'm trying to make is a low cost multi-purpose device for the blind that they can use as audio player/recorder/note taker/document reader, hence the linux part. I want it to be as open as possible both software and hardware so I of course rejected hw like rpi or allwinner right from the start :)
2021-04-09T10:01:10 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-09T10:01:56 < Xogium> https://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd32mp15x/
2021-04-09T10:04:28 < qyx> don't you want to use a SoM solderable by arduino boys?
2021-04-09T10:05:00 < qyx> myir and seeed both have MP1 modules which are not bga
2021-04-09T10:05:07 < Xogium> well honestly it barely makes a difference to me in this case since no blind people will be able to solder it anyway
2021-04-09T10:05:34 < qyx> oh you meant literally blind
2021-04-09T10:05:52 < jpa-> being able to get stuff repaired by seeing people at e.g. local hackerspaces can be a bonus though
2021-04-09T10:06:10 < Xogium> and yeah I saw the seeed one, its quite a clever idea. Not sure about that other one. But the seeed one is rather large, and I'm not sure how this'll do for a portable player
2021-04-09T10:07:11 < Xogium> in fact I do have one of these lying around somewhere
2021-04-09T10:07:19 < Xogium> if I remember right
2021-04-09T10:07:35 < jpa-> how about one of the open source smartphones as a platform?
2021-04-09T10:07:49 < jpa-> cut off the display from dragonbox pyra :P
2021-04-09T10:08:12 < jpa-> or pinephone
2021-04-09T10:08:23 < Xogium> hmm, well we'd need to implement the entire touchscreen accessibility along with that, because linux accessibility has 0 support for touchscreen and gestures
2021-04-09T10:08:53 < jpa-> dragonbox pyra might be nice in that it has physical keyboard
2021-04-09T10:09:04 < Xogium> ah, does it ?
2021-04-09T10:09:30 < jpa-> yeah, it looks kind of like a phone sized laptop with a flip-up display; i'm not sure if one could just remove the display
2021-04-09T10:09:40 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-09T10:10:08 < jpa-> the hardware does need closed blobs like raspberry pi though
2021-04-09T10:10:13 < Xogium> ah shit
2021-04-09T10:10:39 < Xogium> ah well. Still something to look up, I suppose
2021-04-09T10:10:45 < Xogium> pun intended
2021-04-09T10:10:54 < jpa-> for GPU and for the version with 4G mobile data; i guess you don't need the GPU blob :)
2021-04-09T10:11:04 < Xogium> that is fair
2021-04-09T10:11:26 < Xogium> and 4g either, probably, not meant as a phone after all
2021-04-09T10:12:29 < Xogium> but yeah what got me started on this was the fact I used to have one of these devices made for the blind. Back in those days, which is like maybe 6 years ago, they soled it for $800. Took me years to manage to buy it
2021-04-09T10:12:56 < Xogium> it worked amazing for a few years, and one day there was an update that I performed and really shouldn't have done
2021-04-09T10:13:25 < jpa-> looks like dragonbox pyra is selling on pre-order for 500 EUR, so it is not very cheap either
2021-04-09T10:13:44 < jpa-> though because the design is open maybe there will be clones eventually
2021-04-09T10:14:23 < Xogium> somehow the update was corrupted or something, but the device did not check it. So it performed the update and when it rebooted, it was not able to read the sd card anymore. Guess where the data is stored ? Yeah… And that, of course inculded updates. There was no serial port, no ssh, no shell access of any kind, the device was sealed into the case
2021-04-09T10:14:30 < jpa-> oh sorry, 500 EUR is the final price, 330 EUR preorder price
2021-04-09T10:14:34 < Xogium> aka, how to soft brick your board permanently
2021-04-09T10:15:50 < Xogium> putting a sd card in… Crashes the board
2021-04-09T10:15:53 < jpa-> and that's even without VAT, so definitely not cheap
2021-04-09T10:17:45 < Xogium> since then they came up with v2 of the hw, which is even more of a disaster. Sells for half the price, but the hw is even worse, the microphones are built-in so deeply in the device that you hear th whine of the internal flash chip, it takes about 30 seconds to boot up, and to top it off, the wifi is horribly slow and you can make the device crash if you press too fast on too many buttons at once, or at 
2021-04-09T10:17:51 < Xogium> the very least make it lag like crazy
2021-04-09T10:19:14 < Xogium> of course, its as closed as ever, that aspect sure did not change
2021-04-09T10:19:25 < Xogium> heck, phones are more open than that devices with their specs !
2021-04-09T10:19:38 < zyp> have you seen this thing? https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=6031
2021-04-09T10:19:50 < Xogium> we don't know what kinda cpu it runs on, not even the available storage or ram size
2021-04-09T10:21:40 < Xogium> nop, hadn't, that's a nice read though
2021-04-09T10:22:25 < Xogium> but yeah it bothered me that I just couldn't fix the device myself, and to fix it they wanted $300 more so I went like, fsck off
2021-04-09T10:23:21 < Xogium> but it really doesn't surprise me that everything made to be assistive tech is expensive these days
2021-04-09T10:23:29 < Xogium> makes me angry, certainly
2021-04-09T10:24:04 < Xogium> you know, they sell a talking tape measure thing for 200 usd. Just because it freaking talks
2021-04-09T10:24:31 < Streaker> everyone owns a smartphone now. a lot of solutions that used to be a custom device can now be an app.
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2021-04-09T10:25:39 < Xogium> I agree with you, a lot of folks have one. But a lot of blind folks also don't because they can't stand touchscreen
2021-04-09T10:26:05 < Xogium> I resisted till the very end of 2019 before I resigned myself to getting one, and, boy, that was an awefull experience at first
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2021-04-09T10:27:48 < Xogium> I had a flip phone before, with real buttons and the likes. But those are horrible in their own way because the screen reader in there is underdeveloped
2021-04-09T10:29:22 < Xogium> I still find it midly disturbing that I can  litterally tap n things that I don't feel to start them or type in a character
2021-04-09T10:29:57 < Streaker> I wonder if anyone is working on a tactile on-screen keyboard. like a screen that can develop bumps on its surface on command.
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2021-04-09T10:30:30 < Xogium> I felt really weird and almost stupid at first for tapping on litterally a glass panel
2021-04-09T10:30:31 < Streaker> or maybe hot spots. that would be easier.
2021-04-09T10:30:37 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-09T10:32:40 < Streaker> hot spots might be a good idea. you could even sense how hard a person was pressing on one by the rate at which heat is being lost.
2021-04-09T10:33:04 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-09T10:33:04 < Streaker> so people can feel the "buttons" without pressing them.
2021-04-09T10:33:13 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-09T10:33:16 < Streaker> s/pressing/activating/
2021-04-09T10:33:24 < Xogium> that's another thing I really can't stand
2021-04-09T10:33:41 < Xogium> not just on smartphone but now they're putting bloody touchscreens litterally everywhere
2021-04-09T10:34:47 < Xogium> my microwave used to be this touchscreen trash… I had to be very careful to what move I made in using it. I accidentally set it to 3 minutes once instead of 1
2021-04-09T10:34:53 < Streaker> soon enough there's going to be fatal car accidents because someone was busy trying to tap on a car screen.
2021-04-09T10:35:44 < Xogium> the oven is also that way
2021-04-09T10:36:13 < Xogium> I was lucky, I found the only remaining microwave with physical buttons in the whole store
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2021-04-09T11:18:35 < ventyl> Xogium: I have same problems with my washing machine. there are proximity sensor buttons which are either unsensitive, or detect multiple presses instead of just one
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2021-04-09T11:19:22 < Xogium> ugh
2021-04-09T11:19:24 < ventyl> additionally, software seems to be broken, after power-on, time display shows 0 and I have to "start" it once to see the actual time and "start" it again in order to washing actually start
2021-04-09T11:19:41 < Xogium> gotta love smart machines, huh
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2021-04-09T11:20:15 < ventyl> i missed the opportunity to complain. i've been on an interview with company which designs vast majority of house appliances for "european" makers
2021-04-09T11:21:33 < Xogium> hah
2021-04-09T11:22:06 < jpa-> our AEG washing machine does the same "0" thing, as if to show "look, last time you used me, i finished the wash program! wohoo!"
2021-04-09T11:22:15 < Xogium> tbh I wish they would just go back to reeal buttons
2021-04-09T11:23:07 < ventyl> jpa-: that doesn't surprise me as AEG == electrolux, which is mine
2021-04-09T11:23:20 < ventyl> and under the hood they are all bosch / siemens designs
2021-04-09T11:23:43 < Xogium> I'm lucky so far, my washing and drying machines still work good and have real buttons
2021-04-09T11:23:50 < ventyl> well, in certain situations, such as washing machine, I *can* understand usefullness of proximity sensor buttons
2021-04-09T11:24:05 < ventyl> as it eliminates one path of dirt/water into appliance
2021-04-09T11:24:29 < Xogium> well yeah but its a total pain when you're blind
2021-04-09T11:24:41 < ventyl> good point
2021-04-09T11:25:54 < jpa-> our dishwasher has oldschool rotating timer/program control, if they would have put some bumps on the plastic it would be pretty blind-friendly
2021-04-09T11:28:07 < ventyl> with dishwasher I love flat front face. it allowed me to build it into kitchen furniture despite it is officially "tabletop" form factor
2021-04-09T11:28:21 < ventyl> anything protruding would prevent me from doing so
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2021-04-09T11:53:37 < zyp> I've got ikea dishwasher, which is also electrolux, but I have no complaints about that
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2021-04-09T12:22:45 < Steffanx> Happy day of the Finland er language, jpa & kakium69 & others
2021-04-09T12:24:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-04-09T13:01:58 < karlp> #define MOD(X,Y) (((X) >= (Y)) ? ((X)-(Y)) : (X))
2021-04-09T13:02:11 < karlp> well, that's not what I would have called MOD, but ok, ST, you do you...
2021-04-09T13:02:37 < karlp> works for single wrapped I guess.
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2021-04-09T13:06:54 < jpa-> also nice double-evaluation if one puts a function call in argument
2021-04-09T13:07:21 < karlp> fortunately, it's inside their own .c file, but still, 
2021-04-09T13:10:07 < karlp> I feel like ST has double wrapped their own btle implementaiton
2021-04-09T13:11:01 < karlp> and I don't reallyu get what the extra layer is trying to abstract, but oh well.
2021-04-09T13:14:12 < jpa-> it's trying to abstract blame for it being crap
2021-04-09T13:18:03 < zyp> haha
2021-04-09T13:30:03 < qyx> speaking of ble
2021-04-09T13:30:16 < qyx> any recommended python module for ble?
2021-04-09T13:30:24 < qyx> I have found bleson so far
2021-04-09T13:35:17 < karlp> there's also bluepy?
2021-04-09T13:35:26 < karlp> I've got no real experience with that end (yet)
2021-04-09T13:36:59 < qyx> idk, yet to be investigated
2021-04-09T13:37:09 < jpa-> i used pygatt, it was weird
2021-04-09T13:37:18 < qyx> I have some pro rpi project with wifi + ble
2021-04-09T13:38:00 < qyx> is it even possible to tunnel tcp/ip traffic over ble?
2021-04-09T13:38:06 < jpa-> no, maybe i used gatt-python instead :D
2021-04-09T13:38:27 < qyx> eg. access a tcp server from a smarphone using the default web browser
2021-04-09T13:38:43 < jpa-> AFAIK no
2021-04-09T13:39:39 < jpa-> with 1 Mbit/s even in best case, i doubt there would be much general use for such
2021-04-09T13:40:11 < qyx> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47511294/how-can-we-use-http-over-bluetooth-low-energy-ble
2021-04-09T13:40:23 < qyx> aha there is apparently some gatt http procy thing
2021-04-09T13:41:27 < jpa-> apparently yeah, i wonder if android/ios supports it natively
2021-04-09T13:44:13 < karlp> bleak can see devices without permissions, bleson wants to be sudo?
2021-04-09T13:50:43 < karlp> bluepy uses python2 print operator in it's example code, so that's a terrible sign...
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2021-04-09T14:11:30 < BrainDamage> I've used bluepy and worked ok
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2021-04-09T15:14:50 < karlp> heh, can't apply two coupons to st promos
2021-04-09T15:17:10  * karlp checks out twice.
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2021-04-09T16:21:24 < karlp> nice. st stack doesn't respect btle standards.
2021-04-09T16:21:44 < zyp> nice
2021-04-09T16:21:50 < karlp> they use type 0xff for manufacturer specific advertising chunks
2021-04-09T16:22:08 < karlp> and then ignore the bluetooth spec that says that the first two bytes of the manufacturer specific should be your assigned company number.
2021-04-09T16:22:18 < karlp> st just starts using their private fields straightaway.
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2021-04-09T16:23:52 < karlp> so.... st manufacturer blobs decode as "nokia" :)
2021-04-09T16:24:51 < BorgCuba> Hi, is it possible that sleep mode actually doesnt save any energy?
2021-04-09T16:25:14 < BorgCuba> karlp, that does not sound good
2021-04-09T16:25:36 < karlp> it probably doesn't matter for the most part.
2021-04-09T16:25:41 < karlp> it's all "manufacturing data"
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2021-04-09T16:26:13 < zyp> BorgCuba, no, I'd say it's pretty unlikely that sleep mode won't save any energy, but whether it's significant or not depends a lot on your application
2021-04-09T16:26:15 < karlp> so it probably only matters if there's any btle gear from nokia, that _is_ compliant.
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2021-04-09T16:26:34 < karlp> and tooling that is checking for the advertising flags in that mode.
2021-04-09T16:26:37 < karlp> it's just... fucking dumb
2021-04-09T16:26:52 < BorgCuba> zyp, in sleep mode (WFE, SLEEPDEEP = 0, SLEEPONEXIT = 0) the stm32f030 pulls about 3mA (active peripherals: GPIOA, (no-flash), SRAM, PWR, USART1, RTC).
2021-04-09T16:26:54 < karlp> I ws trying to work out how this was working, thena fter looking at more raw bytes decided it just wasnt' compliant :)
2021-04-09T16:27:50 < zyp> BorgCuba, yeah, and when it's running?
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2021-04-09T16:28:17 < zyp> and is this measured with the debugger connected?
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2021-04-09T16:29:33 < BorgCuba> zyp, 4.7mA
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2021-04-09T16:30:09 < zyp> so 4.7mA awake and 3mA asleep? that's 1.7mA saved :)
2021-04-09T16:30:18 < BorgCuba> Indeed :-)
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2021-04-09T16:30:28 < zyp> is this with debugger connected?
2021-04-09T16:30:35 < BorgCuba> yes
2021-04-09T16:30:41 < zyp> debugger might keep parts awake that would otherwise get turned off
2021-04-09T16:30:49 < BorgCuba> let me see
2021-04-09T16:32:13 < zyp> considering you've got a small slow cpu that doesn't draw all that much power in the first place, putting it to sleep isn't gonna save all that much
2021-04-09T16:32:56 < BorgCuba> zyp, good point - its about 100-200uA less without debugger
2021-04-09T16:33:11 < BorgCuba> anyway, I have to try STOP next
2021-04-09T16:33:11 < zyp> sounds fairly reasonable
2021-04-09T16:33:44 < qyx> debugger doesn't prevent sleep, does it?
2021-04-09T16:33:48 < BorgCuba> µA
2021-04-09T16:33:53 < qyx> 4.7 mA vs 3 mA is okish
2021-04-09T16:34:10 < qyx> on L4, disabling debugger saves about 500 uA in STOP0 mode
2021-04-09T16:34:49 < BorgCuba> qyx, I think you can configure it to keep the debugger connection but I did not
2021-04-09T16:35:02 < zyp> qyx, debugger might set the DBG_* bits in DBGMCU_CR
2021-04-09T16:35:28 < qyx> yeah, I mean if you don't konfigure keeping clocks in SLEEP and disconnect it physically
2021-04-09T16:35:32 < qyx> *configure
2021-04-09T16:36:17 < zyp> sounds like BorgCuba are hitting datasheet numbers pretty well
2021-04-09T16:36:53 < qyx> yeah they are quite precise
2021-04-09T16:37:57 < BorgCuba> Its also actually only the MCU, 100nF decoupling and connected to usb-uart adapter (only MCU-TX -> PC)
2021-04-09T16:38:30 < zyp> hmm, according to datasheet there's almost no savings going from stop to standby
2021-04-09T16:38:35 < ventyl> shit still works aftere I have "improved" it
2021-04-09T16:38:42 < zyp> like 2.9 vs 2.8 uA
2021-04-09T16:39:04 < qyx> there are many interesting encounters when you start finding your lost uAs
2021-04-09T16:39:21 < zyp> I bet
2021-04-09T16:39:25 < qyx> in a ~recent project I started disabling buck regulators
2021-04-09T16:39:37 < qyx> and the consumption was rising instead
2021-04-09T16:39:44 < zyp> just surprised the difference is so low
2021-04-09T16:40:04 < qyx> because me dumb, there are pullups on PG outputs
2021-04-09T16:40:14 < zyp> haha
2021-04-09T16:40:35 < zyp> so PG is floating when asserted?
2021-04-09T16:40:36 < qyx> so the switchers were drawing 4 uA when idle and like 50 uA when powered off
2021-04-09T16:40:42 < zyp> fun
2021-04-09T16:41:55 < qyx> or what was the exact issue
2021-04-09T16:42:45 < qyx> no, pg should be floating when off
2021-04-09T16:42:48 < qyx> meh
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2021-04-09T16:50:17 < jpa-> meh, using SWO on STM32H743 is a mess
2021-04-09T16:50:44 < jpa-> documentation is lacking, stm32h743xx.h lacks the register definitions, some random code from internet breaks debugger access also etc.
2021-04-09T16:51:26 < zyp> fun
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2021-04-09T16:54:11 < ventyl> and datashit is buggy
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2021-04-09T16:56:20 < qyx> heh ventyl is raging continuously
2021-04-09T16:56:24 < qyx> using H753
2021-04-09T16:57:51 < ventyl> actually I am raging ever since I started working on FDCAN
2021-04-09T16:57:55 < ventyl> which is not limited to H7
2021-04-09T16:59:14 < ventyl> does it even make any sense to report bugs in datashits to ST?
2021-04-09T16:59:53 < aandrew> what's wrong with CAN?
2021-04-09T17:00:04 < ventyl> *FD*CAN
2021-04-09T17:00:12 < aandrew> sure, what's wrong with it
2021-04-09T17:00:33 < qyx> the documentation for G4 and H7
2021-04-09T17:00:35 < ventyl> datashit contains a lot of false claims
2021-04-09T17:00:41 < ventyl> for both of them
2021-04-09T17:01:05 < ventyl> probably none of addresses present in datashit is correct except of FDCAN base addresses
2021-04-09T17:01:10 < ventyl> rest of them are wrong, completely
2021-04-09T17:01:21 < ventyl> uh oh, even FDCAN message RAM addresses are wrong
2021-04-09T17:02:01 < ventyl> and then the peripheral itself. it is just. damn. badly designed
2021-04-09T17:02:21 < jpa-> i probably have some clock that is not working correctly, because the first write to SWO registers causes all subsequent access to SWO to crash the whole CPU, including the debug block
2021-04-09T17:04:37 < jpa-> https://gist.github.com/tstellanova/180363b593fe22991c1a1ffabbd48634    also, wtf is going on with the random codes being given as a python script that prints a string constant?
2021-04-09T17:05:37 < jpa-> maybe it is somehow better than just typing the register addresses directly
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2021-04-09T17:09:33 < karlp> h7 sounds like a disaster.
2021-04-09T17:10:31 < karlp> holy shit that code looks gross
2021-04-09T17:10:49 < qyx> theres a "clive1" magic word inside
2021-04-09T17:10:50 < karlp> fixing openocd to detect the changes would have been simpler, if you have to be looking at the docs anyway.
2021-04-09T17:10:51 < qyx> it must be good
2021-04-09T17:16:08 < zyp> is h7 worse than f7?
2021-04-09T17:16:16 < ventyl> it sits somewhere in between MCUs and SoC
2021-04-09T17:16:23 < zyp> so far I have the impression f7 also have a bunch of gotchas that f4 lacks
2021-04-09T17:16:25 < ventyl> so it inherits the bad of both worlds
2021-04-09T17:19:21 < jpa-> h7 seems nice on paper, but feels quite buggy in practice
2021-04-09T17:19:48 < qyx> there are two different datasheet for two H7 revisions, aren't there?
2021-04-09T17:20:07 < qyx> I don't remember this is the case for any other stm32
2021-04-09T17:20:14 < ventyl> it seems that there are
2021-04-09T17:20:41 < BorgCuba> So, in STOP mode (and using WFI now) I am an about 450-500µA (measured with multimeter in the mA range)
2021-04-09T17:21:10 < zyp> that's still two order of magnitudes too much :)
2021-04-09T17:22:01 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, the first revision of H7 was total crap
2021-04-09T17:22:19 < qyx> ventyl: can you check the rev? :>
2021-04-09T17:22:20 < jpa-> but IIRC something similar happened with the very first F407, they changed pinout or something
2021-04-09T17:22:35 < ventyl> qyx: I am using specific datasheet for H753
2021-04-09T17:22:44 < ventyl> and some one or two different
2021-04-09T17:24:20 < Xogium> ah speaking of stm32 ;) what do you folks think about the stm32f413zh ? And in general the nucleo boards ?
2021-04-09T17:24:40 < karlp> well, filed an issue, I bet they choose to "um, let's not do taht" https://github.com/STMicroelectronics/STM32CubeWB/issues/27
2021-04-09T17:24:57 < karlp> because they'd have to change their android and ios apps, and the cubemonitorrf, and the generator templates....
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2021-04-09T17:27:19 < Xogium> I was considering getting one of them as a toy, sort of. But I might not since I can't code anyway… Coding when you're blind is a b****
2021-04-09T17:27:41 < jpa-> i'm beginning to understand why they include MDMA every time you buy STM32H7xx
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2021-04-09T17:27:45 < Xogium> I can only read one line of code at a time and have to remember all the others that were before. This really sucks
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2021-04-09T17:28:45 < jpa-> karlp: haha, that "spotted before customer" tag on their github issues is lovely :)
2021-04-09T17:29:26 < ventyl> Xogium: I would expect that you reused your visual cortex as an extended "workspace" and you can handle even stuff you don't see
2021-04-09T17:29:33 < qyx> karlp: haha the issue
2021-04-09T17:30:57 < BorgCuba> zyp, at least 1 order. when I measure for a longer time I can see that it goes down to 100µA and the back to ~450µA (but still the same order).
2021-04-09T17:31:21 < qyx> Xogium: uff I didn't get why you are asking about devices for the blind earlier today
2021-04-09T17:33:37 < BorgCuba> the funny thing is that I tried different shunts 12 - 1k5 and the mcu did not even to a POR when changing them (I am using a 100nF cap and also UART TX is connected).
2021-04-09T17:34:14 < BorgCuba> even 1.5k showd 0 mV so I guess my measurement equipment is not up to this job
2021-04-09T17:38:27 < qyx> 2.2.1 Timer system breaks do not work
2021-04-09T17:38:29 < qyx> well done
2021-04-09T17:38:31 < qyx> H7 errata
2021-04-09T17:38:34 < karlp> GATT Characteristic and Object Type 0x2B48 Middle Name
2021-04-09T17:38:44 < karlp> man there's some garbage specifics in these assigned numbers
2021-04-09T17:38:50 < qyx> Clock recovery system synchronization with USB SOF does not work
2021-04-09T17:38:51 < qyx> another one
2021-04-09T17:39:19 < ventyl> Xogium: anyway, go and get one. maybe not L4, but L0 instead. it is dead cheap. worst case, you will donate it someone else. knowing embedded development may be a worthy experience these days
2021-04-09T17:44:28 < Xogium> qyx: what do you mean you didn't get ?
2021-04-09T17:44:56 < qyx> I didn't understand why you are asking
2021-04-09T17:44:59 < Xogium> ventyl: yes the cortex gets reused, but for audio signals, mainly
2021-04-09T17:45:19 < Xogium> or, more accurately boosting other senses
2021-04-09T17:45:40 < Xogium> qyx: ahah :) that's fine
2021-04-09T17:46:21 < Xogium> I struggle like crazy to remember more than a few lines of code, should I manage to read it
2021-04-09T17:46:32 < Xogium> and for a few seconds at a time
2021-04-09T17:47:08 < fenugrec> just remove all linefeeds then ! everything on one line of code
2021-04-09T17:47:08 < Xogium> its not every blind people having this trouble somehow though. I'm not sure what's different here
2021-04-09T17:47:19 < Xogium> holy crap even worse lol
2021-04-09T17:47:34 < ventyl> maybe that's just a matter of training or how your brain is wired
2021-04-09T17:47:43 < Xogium> yeah, must be it
2021-04-09T17:47:58 < qyx> so you don't see anything?
2021-04-09T17:48:01 < Xogium> nop
2021-04-09T17:48:09 < qyx> meh :S
2021-04-09T17:48:14 < ventyl> even among those who are not blind are people, who can "remember" whole milions of lines long codebase and those who struggle to find a function which they wrote an hour ago
2021-04-09T17:48:18 < Xogium> hard to, without retinas ;)
2021-04-09T17:48:50 < Xogium> that's fair
2021-04-09T17:48:56 < fenugrec> I'd imagine some higher-level or differently structured prog languages would be easier to work with
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2021-04-09T17:49:59 < srk> they are. less code, less maintnance :)
2021-04-09T17:50:03 < Xogium> I'm not sure tbh. I tried quite a bunch of them, and somehow it all seem similar in my brain, and they are as hard to understand all the same
2021-04-09T17:50:20 < ventyl> or maybe lean towards high-level architecture, where attention to detail is not important, rather big picture overview and understanding of the whole
2021-04-09T17:50:32 < fenugrec> with something like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Whitespace , everybody's equally clueless heh
2021-04-09T17:50:33 < Xogium> I tried C, C#, rust, go, python, freepascal, freebasic, purebasic, java - yeah even that
2021-04-09T17:50:39 < ventyl> there actually are blind people in tech in such roles
2021-04-09T17:50:39 < Xogium> and probably a few I forget now
2021-04-09T17:52:02 < Xogium> ah yeah I tried forth
2021-04-09T17:54:17 < karlp> fenugrec: is whitespace basically jsut brainfuck with the operators replaced by different types of whitespace? it looks ~identical?
2021-04-09T17:55:20 < ventyl> it seems to be higher level than brainfuck
2021-04-09T17:56:18 < karlp> right, not quite the same operator set.
2021-04-09T17:56:24 < karlp> doesn't make this list: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Trivial_brainfuck_substitution
2021-04-09T17:56:46 < ventyl> it has sense of stack, which does not exist on touring machine
2021-04-09T17:56:59 < ventyl> or, it exist, but just an a user construct
2021-04-09T17:59:02 < BrainDamage> touring machines, machines that take you for a ride
2021-04-09T17:59:10 < Xogium> LOL
2021-04-09T17:59:14 < fenugrec> karlp, no idea, I find the whole 'esoteric language' thing lame
2021-04-09T17:59:31 < ventyl> well, Intercal actually had some interesting features
2021-04-09T17:59:45 < ventyl> like, that in certain variants, every variable was actually a stack
2021-04-09T18:00:16 < ventyl> and `come from` instead of `go to` created surprisingly intuitive construct for parallelism
2021-04-09T18:02:06 < ventyl> and there's a "web framework" based on intercal called intercal on interstates, which also looks suprisingly consistent, if you ignore all the intentional creepiness of Intercal itself
2021-04-09T18:03:49 < Xogium> I guess it would have been fun to use some stm32 mcu for some things but since I don't manage to code its a bit harder :p
2021-04-09T18:04:44 < ventyl> well, you should still be able to write the most important piece of code in embedded world - blinky
2021-04-09T18:05:20 < Xogium> blinking leds ? Lol
2021-04-09T18:05:43 < zyp> maybe a beepy would be more useful
2021-04-09T18:05:51 < ventyl> yeah, code blinking LEDs is to embedded, what Minix is to Intel x86. pretty much all hardware once ran it
2021-04-09T18:06:22 < ventyl> you can still sense current using your tongue
2021-04-09T18:06:30 < ventyl> feel the current (TM)
2021-04-09T18:07:47 < Xogium> that sounds painful hah
2021-04-09T18:08:32 < ventyl> microcontroller would probably be fried sooner than you'd get any harm
2021-04-09T18:08:39 < Xogium> I almost felt it once, the current. And not the gentle kind
2021-04-09T18:09:05 < ventyl> you have to choose the right one
2021-04-09T18:09:30 < ventyl> which 230VAC almost never provides directly
2021-04-09T18:09:33 < Xogium> in europe the ground is a pin that sticks out of the wall socket, whereas in america the grould is a pin on whatever you wanna plug. The two don't mix that well, and one of the 2 pins is left exposed
2021-04-09T18:09:57 < Xogium> I almost put my finger on it and would have gotten a good taste of 240v  at whatever amp
2021-04-09T18:10:49 < BorgCuba> physics question: Is electric current a Noether current?
2021-04-09T18:10:50 < ventyl> US-EU adapter?
2021-04-09T18:11:04 < Xogium> yea
2021-04-09T18:12:10 < Xogium> and also in eurpoe you can kind of touch part of the pin since its not metalic all the way. But US, don't try that, cause the pins are entirely made of metal
2021-04-09T18:12:29 < Xogium> *europe
2021-04-09T18:13:06 < ventyl> well, US-kind of distribution network is a nightmare as pretty much anything unique to US
2021-04-09T18:13:13 < Xogium> :p
2021-04-09T18:13:52 < Xogium> pretty scary too when you think about it… Imgine you accidentally plug something not all the way in and you touch one of the pins with your finger
2021-04-09T18:14:08 < Xogium> *imagine
2021-04-09T18:16:11 < BrainDamage> BorgCuba: yes, 
2021-04-09T18:16:28 < BrainDamage> which is why conservation of charge is a thing
2021-04-09T18:16:54 < BrainDamage> and it's builin in the maxwell eq
2021-04-09T18:18:28 < BorgCuba> BrainDamage, I think you are right although it has been a while for me since I was looking into these things
2021-04-09T18:19:38 < BrainDamage> it's been quite a while for me as well, it's just that memory is the only non-sucky par t of me
2021-04-09T18:20:16 < BorgCuba> BrainDamage, yeah :-) Do you remember the associated symmetry?
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2021-04-09T18:30:27 < BrainDamage> .... nope
2021-04-09T18:38:04 < jpa-> ok, so SWO works if i run the core at the power-on default 64MHz
2021-04-09T18:38:12 < jpa-> it does not work at 240MHz for some reason
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2021-04-09T18:43:34 < Xogium> is it possible to do good voice recognition on stm32 without some kind of proprietary crap or requiring online conectivity ?
2021-04-09T18:43:34 < jpa-> it also does not work if i use PLL to convert 64MHz to 64MHz
2021-04-09T18:43:50 < jpa-> Xogium: keyword recognition sure, speech to text no
2021-04-09T18:44:02 < Xogium> for example, to control the device itself with your voice, not do alexa/google home kind of thing
2021-04-09T18:44:38 < Xogium> ah
2021-04-09T18:45:25 < Xogium> I don't think speech to text would be it. For example if I use stm32 for my audio player thing and I say 'next track', I could in theory control it that way ?
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2021-04-09T18:46:03 < ventyl> Xogium: well, Ericsson had that 20+ years ago using Atmel AVR, so technically it is possible
2021-04-09T18:48:46 < Xogium> hmmm could be nicce
2021-04-09T18:51:27 < ventyl> you could take Ericsson T18, record a fart, then you just had to hold one button, fart again and it would dial <someone>
2021-04-09T18:51:32 < BrainDamage> you can do it by training on your voice, but it'll only recognize specific sort clip
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2021-04-09T18:52:07 < BrainDamage> the longer and the more clips you add, the higher the false positives
2021-04-09T18:52:46 < Xogium> hrm
2021-04-09T18:52:47 < BrainDamage> re: touchscreens, perhaps you could go all the way iot for how much scary it is
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2021-04-09T18:52:57 < BrainDamage> if it has a remote api, then you can use a pc
2021-04-09T18:53:55 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-09T18:54:01 < Xogium> not sure
2021-04-09T18:54:53 < BrainDamage> it puts the network as a centralized point of failure
2021-04-09T18:55:00 < BrainDamage> that's the main issue
2021-04-09T18:55:12 < Xogium> indeed
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2021-04-09T19:05:24 < qyx> jpa-: why not, ST is much into AI lately
2021-04-09T19:13:05 < jpa-> "To insure an optimal behavior of the PLL when one of the post-divider (DIVP, DIVQ or DIVR) is not used, the application shall set the enable bit (DIVyEN) as well as the corresponding post-divider bits (DIVP, DIVQ or DIVR) to ‘0’."      i had DIVQ and DIVR disabled with enable bits but the DIVQ and DIVR values were non-zero
2021-04-09T19:13:13 < jpa-> this caused SWO block to crash the system D3 bus
2021-04-09T19:13:18 < jpa-> wtf is this crap
2021-04-09T19:13:22 < jpa-> i'm switching to arduino
2021-04-09T19:21:58 < jpa-> actually even setting the divider bits to 0 is not enough, it only works if i have the Q and R outputs enabled also
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2021-04-09T19:24:33 < jpa-> eh no, it's all because the clock tree diagram clearly shows that TRACECLK comes from PLL1_R.. no wonder it doesn't work if i have R output disabled
2021-04-09T19:26:34 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/stm32h7_clock_tree.png   because it totally makes sense that when CPU runs on PLL1_P, trace should run on PLL1_R
2021-04-09T19:33:25 < Steffann> Yw jpa- 
2021-04-09T19:39:45 < qyx> so M4 on STM32MP1 is going to be the same
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2021-04-09T20:17:42 < zyp> jpa-, oh, nice
2021-04-09T20:18:36 < zyp> jpa-, that's probably meant for parallel trace, because on other parts parallel trace is hardwired to sysclk/2
2021-04-09T20:19:05 < zyp> and for h7 that probably gets faster than what all probes can manage
2021-04-09T20:19:44 < zyp> and since swo hooks into the same blocks, it makes sense swo clock is derived from the same source
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 10 2021
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2021-04-10T00:41:53 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-04-10T00:42:04 < kakium69> hello steff
2021-04-10T00:42:12 < ventyl> night screw
2021-04-10T00:42:56 < kakium69> y
2021-04-10T00:43:47 < kakium69> how is innovation ventyl?
2021-04-10T00:44:29 < ventyl> junk surprisingly runs
2021-04-10T00:45:14 < ventyl> and I wasn't catapulted to earth orbit yet, so I assume that it means that thing are going well
2021-04-10T00:45:30 < kakium69> no
2021-04-10T00:45:51 < kakium69> you are not supposed to get catapulted to orbit?
2021-04-10T00:46:26 < Steffann> Gooday kakium69 
2021-04-10T00:47:01 < Steffann> Happy day after finnish language day, kakium69 
2021-04-10T00:47:13 < kakium69> whaat
2021-04-10T00:47:39 < kakium69> Agricola
2021-04-10T00:47:44 < ventyl> well, evaluation of reaching orbit highly depends on what action causes it
2021-04-10T00:48:05 < ventyl> reaching orbit after orbital rocket launch is somehow expected outcome
2021-04-10T00:48:23 < kakium69> are you building a nuclear fission gadget ventyl?
2021-04-10T00:48:34 < ventyl> reaching orbit after unplanned explosion may be a subtle sign of excessive amount of explosives used
2021-04-10T00:49:40 < kakium69> Steffann: there is no special food for Agricola so meh
2021-04-10T00:50:08 < kakium69> but for Runeberg there is
2021-04-10T00:50:43 < Steffann> You lost me kakium69 
2021-04-10T00:50:59 < kakium69> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Runebergintorttu.jpg
2021-04-10T00:53:07 < Steffann> Looks nice
2021-04-10T00:53:41 < kakium69> ventyl: ejection seat for your car?
2021-04-10T00:54:08 < ventyl> oh noes, my car doesn't have sliding roof. reaching orbit highly improbable
2021-04-10T00:54:23 < kakium69> just put explosives under the seat and connect arduino
2021-04-10T00:54:37 < Steffann> Blow the roof before you go airborne 
2021-04-10T00:54:47 < ventyl> i have shitload of AVRs but I never had arduino
2021-04-10T00:55:07 < englishman> kakium69: have you heard of paraskating
2021-04-10T00:56:02 < kakium69> y
2021-04-10T00:56:30 < ventyl> today I have learned, that I was granted my trade permit
2021-04-10T00:56:33 < ventyl> ...from scammers
2021-04-10T00:56:39 < englishman> looks much more painful than parasurfing
2021-04-10T00:57:02 < ventyl> scammers were unintentially useful as they notified me of my permit one-two business days earlier than government will
2021-04-10T00:57:07 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-10T00:57:41 < kakium69> ventyl: just be crafty and forge yourself new one
2021-04-10T00:58:05 < kakium69> what trade permit?
2021-04-10T00:58:09 < kakium69> EE?
2021-04-10T00:58:16 < ventyl> kakium69: actually I have sufficient amount of spare parts, that I could put another car together
2021-04-10T00:59:20 < ventyl> eh, trade permit. I now have a tax ID (which I don't know yet, because official paperwork didn't arrive yet) and can legally send invoices
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2021-04-10T02:09:39 < Laurenceb> apparently some GERM-man guy died
2021-04-10T02:10:04 < Laurenceb> I hurd he lived in a giant council house most of his life, and scammed benefits
2021-04-10T02:13:06 < Laurenceb> world most famous neet
2021-04-10T02:16:53 < kakium69> mad lad?
2021-04-10T02:20:57 < kakium69> DragonLord?
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2021-04-10T02:22:10 < Steffann> Philip was germanz Laurenceb ?
2021-04-10T02:22:14 < kakium69> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Runebergintorttu.jpg
2021-04-10T02:22:24 < Laurenceb> Steffann: yeah
2021-04-10T02:22:40 < kakium69> ah
2021-04-10T02:22:42 < Steffann> Hmm, alright. 
2021-04-10T02:23:03 < Steffann> Dutch queens liked Germany too 😅
2021-04-10T02:23:57 < Steffann>  
2021-04-10T02:24:26 < Steffann> Wasn't the guy a guy you like Laurenceb ? Sounds like he did good trolls
2021-04-10T02:25:18 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-04-10T02:35:27 < kakium69> what is his legacy?
2021-04-10T02:36:07 < kakium69> Only things I know is name and face
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2021-04-10T04:38:54 < ColdKeyboard> Hey, can someone take a peek at this repo -> https://github.com/SasaKaranovic/HousePlantMonitoringSystem/blob/master/Part1_Sensor_board/Firmware/Application/i2c.c
2021-04-10T04:39:43 < ColdKeyboard> It's been a while since I wrote I2C slave code and I'm not sure why STM32L011 is "working" but sometimes after first or first few bytes, it would just pull the I2C lines low and basically brick the entire bus...
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2021-04-10T06:50:39 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone? :)
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2021-04-10T08:01:49 < ColdKeyboard> It looks like I2C is throwing `HAL_I2C_ERROR_AF` error.
2021-04-10T08:08:07 < dongs_> GAY_AF
2021-04-10T08:17:09 < ColdKeyboard> It's weird. Why would STM32 lock up the bus because there is no device to acknowledge the address?
2021-04-10T08:17:24 < ColdKeyboard> It's not even the address that STM32 is suposed to listen on... :\
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2021-04-10T15:10:03 < karlp> because i2c is dum.
2021-04-10T15:46:18  * Laurenceb is running windozer 10
2021-04-10T15:46:40 < Laurenceb> the splash screen is probably the most pretentious thing in computer history
2021-04-10T15:46:58 < Xogium> is it ?
2021-04-10T15:47:01 < Laurenceb> also it seems to be gradually running slower and slower...
2021-04-10T15:47:06 < Laurenceb> windows syndrome
2021-04-10T15:47:39 < Xogium> lol asking for real here since I never saw any splashscreens. Probably didn't miss out much :D
2021-04-10T15:47:56 < Xogium> being blind is handy. Sometimes
2021-04-10T15:49:00 < Xogium> only thing is you always kind of wonder, er, is my computer booted yet or what
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2021-04-10T16:49:15 < Steffann> You know windows-syndrome is an viewers issue. not an issue of the object being viewed.
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2021-04-10T17:19:00 < Steffann> also know as observer's issue
2021-04-10T17:19:11 < englishman> catcow? lol
2021-04-10T17:19:13 < englishman> https://i.ibb.co/wZqkWkW/2sw1209g40m51.jpg
2021-04-10T17:19:18 < CatCow97> meow
2021-04-10T17:20:00 < BrainDamage> well, there's a observed issue that same tasks take more cpu time as time goes by, but it's not limited to windows
2021-04-10T17:20:08 < BrainDamage> it's true of sw in general
2021-04-10T17:21:22 < BrainDamage> as hw gets faster, both more security features get added in and programmers write in higher level languages because the result is ok and the execution time is less important than the programmer's time
2021-04-10T17:22:31 < Laurenceb> https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.480
2021-04-10T17:22:33 < Laurenceb> kekkkk
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2021-04-10T17:27:11 < Laurenceb> >The EM-drive saga is now in the category of "Hollow-Earth" theories. We don't keep having to prove, yet again, that the Earth is not hollow, with a miniature sun in the center
2021-04-10T17:27:14 < Laurenceb> irl lolling
2021-04-10T17:27:27 < Laurenceb> who could have predicted it would come to this
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2021-04-10T18:53:14 < englishman> https://www.pine64.org/pinecil/
2021-04-10T18:54:30 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's why the ts100 firmware has been renamed as ironos
2021-04-10T18:54:40 < BrainDamage> tbh, I wish hw manifacturers would focus on hw and leave firmware to open source
2021-04-10T18:54:48 < BrainDamage> for one it's less work for them
2021-04-10T18:55:49 < englishman> oh wow it's a whole big thing now
2021-04-10T18:55:49 < englishman> cool
2021-04-10T18:56:11 < englishman> can i recommend this over ts100 now? usbC, and much cheaper
2021-04-10T18:57:24 < BrainDamage> I didn't try it personally, but on paper it's really nice
2021-04-10T18:58:25 < englishman> it is
2021-04-10T18:58:28 < englishman> i wonder why they chose FUSB302
2021-04-10T18:59:24 < englishman> https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/tree/master/source/Core/Drivers/FUSB302
2021-04-10T18:59:33 < englishman> you have to do all that PD stuff in software on your mcu
2021-04-10T18:59:46 < englishman> instead of using a standalone PD gadget for the same price
2021-04-10T19:00:57 < Xogium> wonder if that is a fast cooling iron
2021-04-10T19:24:11 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have an example for STM32 slave device?
2021-04-10T19:24:48 < zyp> I received the ts80p the other day
2021-04-10T19:25:16 < ColdKeyboard> I have STM32L011 and for some reason it's getting out of whack when you scan I2C bus or there is ack missing on the bus... it basically locks the bus
2021-04-10T19:27:02 < ColdKeyboard> I'm confused by the part where I set up I2C slave own address as 0x10. But whichever address on the bus I call from master, if there is no response. STM throws an interrupt and locks the bus. Even thou STM slave is not being addressed...
2021-04-10T19:27:19 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone have a clue what is going on?
2021-04-10T19:36:01 < boddax> ColdKeyboard: you checked the I2C timings ?
2021-04-10T19:36:51 < boddax> I2CCLK etc...
2021-04-10T19:41:23 < ColdKeyboard> boddax I did try to lower and raise the hi2c1.Init.Timing value and also use one that is provided by CubeMX as reference
2021-04-10T19:41:47 < ColdKeyboard> I'm running the bus at at 100KHz, so nothing fancy
2021-04-10T19:45:50 < boddax> do you have another board to test?
2021-04-10T19:47:36 < ColdKeyboard> I do, I tried it on two other boards and it's the same bahaviour
2021-04-10T19:48:24 < ColdKeyboard> I'm thinking that I didn't setup byte-by-byte interrupt receive properly but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
2021-04-10T19:58:39 < ColdKeyboard> Funny thing is; I2C slave works the first time message is sent. After that it locks the bus.
2021-04-10T19:59:14 < ColdKeyboard> If you send a valid command, it will respond. But if you are doing bus scan, it will call error ISR. But in either case, it locks the bus after.
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2021-04-10T20:42:30 < boddax> so meaning the way you send mdg there some wrong
2021-04-10T20:42:36 < boddax> msg
2021-04-10T20:47:53 < ColdKeyboard> I'm not sure from the documentation. Can you even use interrupt to receive "variable" amount of data?
2021-04-10T20:49:01 < ColdKeyboard> For example, if I set receive IT to 1 byte and have ISR that reloads to receive another byte. That wouldn't work if master is sending more than one byte per transaction?
2021-04-10T20:51:02 < boddax> how you declared that 1byte ?
2021-04-10T20:52:05 < ColdKeyboard> Basically HAL_I2C_Slave_Receive_IT(&hi2c1, (uint8_t *)&pI2CBuff[nI2CPos], 1)
2021-04-10T20:52:37 < ColdKeyboard> Or should I use HAL_I2C_Slave_Sequential_Receive_IT ?
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2021-04-10T21:05:16 < boddax> void HAL_I2C_Slave_Receive_IT...
2021-04-10T21:05:58 < jadew> that is offensive
2021-04-10T21:07:13 < boddax> dangerous?
2021-04-10T21:11:58 < ColdKeyboard> boddax which one of the two would be for an unknown size of bytes in single transmission?
2021-04-10T21:17:03 < boddax> HAL_I2C_Master_Transmit(&hi2c1, VAL_ADDR, buf, 1, HAL_MAX_DELAY);                HAL_I2C_Master_Receive(........... LIKE THIS ?
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2021-04-10T21:17:40 < ColdKeyboard> But, STM is receiving in slave mode?
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2021-04-10T21:24:51 < boddax> TRY SOME ERROR HANDLERS AND SEE WHAT HAPPEN
2021-04-10T21:39:38 < Steffann> CAPSLOCK
2021-04-10T21:43:33 < boddax> ok capolock
2021-04-10T21:48:48 < ColdKeyboard> Something funny is going on with I2C peripheral I think...
2021-04-10T21:50:35 < ColdKeyboard> Almost as if it's trying to clock stretch regardless if interrupt is enabled, or anything... weird
2021-04-10T21:51:30 < zyp> isn't that natural?
2021-04-10T21:51:50 < ColdKeyboard> I don't know, that's why I'm asking :)
2021-04-10T21:52:43 < ColdKeyboard> I'm talking if interrupts are disabled. Peripheral is in slave mode but just hanging inside a loop... I2C peripheral seems to hold CLK line low after first transaction :\
2021-04-10T21:52:51 < zyp> I mean, I haven't tried using it in slave mode, but I think it's pretty reasonable to expect clock stretching unless you're taking extra care to make it fast enough to not have to stretch
2021-04-10T21:53:15 < zyp> and «calling some functions from cubemx that I don't really understand» doesn't count as taking extra care :)
2021-04-10T21:53:29 < ColdKeyboard> zyp btw, when I say clock stretching. I mean STM is locking CLK line low indefinitely
2021-04-10T21:54:18 < zyp> yeah, that's what clock stretching does if it gets stuck waiting for something that never happens
2021-04-10T21:55:31 < ventyl> stepping onto CLK like
2021-04-10T21:55:37 < ventyl> as my ex-coleague would say
2021-04-10T21:56:26 < zyp> also, are you sure your i2c master supports clock stretching?
2021-04-10T21:56:33 < zyp> some apparently doesn't
2021-04-10T21:59:31 < ColdKeyboard> ventyl stepping onto CLK line. lol :)
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2021-04-10T22:02:38 < ventyl> he spent a lot of time in nuclear power plant
2021-04-10T22:02:45 < ventyl> and in bank
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2021-04-10T22:38:36 < ColdKeyboard> Okay, it's progress I guess... now it's still throwing `HAL_I2C_ERROR_AF` for every transaction but it's not locking the bus! woohoo :)
2021-04-10T22:39:23 < ColdKeyboard> Still not working entirely but hey... baby steps :D
2021-04-10T22:44:44 < boddax> what about TIMEOUT too
2021-04-10T22:49:35 < ColdKeyboard> It looks like it's throwing this error even when I just scan the bus or try to address a device that doesn't exist on the bus
2021-04-10T22:49:46 < ColdKeyboard> Shouldn't this be triggered only if you are in master mode?
2021-04-10T22:50:48 < ColdKeyboard> Just thinking out loud here btw
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--- Day changed Sun Apr 11 2021
2021-04-11T00:38:44 < ColdKeyboard> Ok this thing is confusing the hell out of me
2021-04-11T00:39:22 < ColdKeyboard> If anyone has a example of I2C slave receiving variable data lenght in byte-by-byte (basically receive until stop)... please let me know
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2021-04-11T01:21:51 < karlp> i2c slave in general is really rare, you might be waiting a while :)
2021-04-11T01:31:42 < aandrew> i2c slave is a pain in the ass on every arch I've ever used it on
2021-04-11T01:42:02 < qyx> speaking of pain in the ass
2021-04-11T01:42:15 < qyx> any stm32wl heroes?
2021-04-11T01:42:29 < qyx> I cannot even find a ref sch
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2021-04-11T02:06:39 < ColdKeyboard> Immediately unhelpful but... is stm32wl pain in the ass or stm32wl heroes?
2021-04-11T02:06:48 < ColdKeyboard> :P
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2021-04-11T04:20:41 < kakium69> 420
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2021-04-11T08:06:11 < t4nk_freenode> Morning, my mostly mentally messed up mateys
2021-04-11T08:07:05 < jpa-> morning, our spiritual leader
2021-04-11T09:00:51 < t4nk_freenode> 'All lamps are testeb at the factory before levaing the facility' .... better search for another store
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2021-04-11T10:54:51 < antto> kakium69, no dr0gz pls
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2021-04-11T14:51:57 < dongs_> did anyone in UK ever used pcbtrain for protos are they actually in UK or just a chink shit reseller
2021-04-11T14:55:00 < Xogium> dongs_: I'm not in uk, and I haven,t ever used them, but they do sound legit
2021-04-11T14:55:07 < Xogium> at least
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2021-04-11T15:46:45 < antto> dongs_, what's wrong with .cn ?
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2021-04-11T16:11:57 < boddax> yellow pcb
2021-04-11T16:12:29 < Xogium> yellow sounds weird :O
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2021-04-11T16:38:50 < zyp> IIRC laurenceb did some stuff with pcbtrain some years back
2021-04-11T16:39:33 < Xogium> are they restricted to doing stuff for companies or do they also work with individuals ?
2021-04-11T16:39:50 < Xogium> that's my main question about them personally :p
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2021-04-11T17:05:45 < zyp> just register a company?
2021-04-11T17:06:48 < Xogium> zyp: you make it sound like its easy
2021-04-11T17:08:02 < jpa-> in most countries it is
2021-04-11T17:08:52 < Xogium> welll, sure wish I had been given lesons or whatever to even manage to go about it
2021-04-11T17:09:20 < Xogium> I mean, I don't have any clue what to do or how, not that I'm not willing to learn
2021-04-11T17:09:42 < zyp> what country are you in?
2021-04-11T17:10:49 < Xogium> france
2021-04-11T17:11:37 < Xogium> and we're like 3 in the project so far, with only me being actually in france, the others are in germany and australia respectively
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2021-04-11T17:40:25 < boddax> ColdKeyboard got stuck with the bus ;)))
2021-04-11T17:42:50 < Laurenceb> lol my dad is voting for PAN
2021-04-11T17:43:38 < Laurenceb> so much for being a libtard
2021-04-11T17:45:27 < Laurenceb> he is still emailing me about how Farage is a reincarnation of Hitler created by Russian hackers
2021-04-11T17:48:24 < englishman> I havent yet found a PCB or pcba place that doesnt deal with individuals
2021-04-11T17:48:27 < englishman> money is money
2021-04-11T17:49:05 < englishman> there are certainly a lot that don't waste their time helping out new people, but that's different
2021-04-11T17:49:49 < englishman> and of course plenty with account minimums
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2021-04-11T18:06:07 < Laurenceb> keeek these emailz
2021-04-11T18:06:44 < Laurenceb> >I need to lurn to science if I dont know by now that coronavirus was created by russian biohackers then sent around the world with fake amazon vouchers
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2021-04-11T18:34:46 < jpa-> heh, arduino IDE has button "Copy error messages" - now i can just paste everything here to get it fixed
2021-04-11T18:35:06 < Steffann> Go ahead jpa- 
2021-04-11T18:35:49 < Steffann> Does this mean you just used the tarduino IDE mr jpa- ?
2021-04-11T18:37:54 < jpa-> yeah i decided it is more on my level
2021-04-11T18:43:37 < invzim> anyone got a 'cable-guy' in china?
2021-04-11T18:43:48 < invzim> need dc plug to something, like jst-vl
2021-04-11T18:44:31 < invzim> http://dirtypcbs.com/store/cables can get me half-way there, but would be nice to have them made
2021-04-11T19:42:14 < zyp> dongs_ have hooked me up before
2021-04-11T19:55:33  * karlp too....
2021-04-11T19:55:43 < Steffann> not me
2021-04-11T20:23:20 < Laurenceb> til bluetooth5 supports antenna arrays
2021-04-11T20:23:33 < Laurenceb> might actually be capable of indoor positioning, maybe
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2021-04-11T20:32:06 < qyx> 3000 Expected 1/7/2022
2021-04-11T20:32:08 < qyx> meh TI
2021-04-11T20:33:56 < qyx> another alternative  937 Expected 12/16/2021 
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2021-04-11T20:36:20 < zyp> nice leadtimes
2021-04-11T20:40:23 < englishman> uh oh
2021-04-11T20:46:56 < qyx> fucking none TPS I am using
2021-04-11T20:47:13 < qyx> tps62175, 62125, 561201
2021-04-11T20:49:08 < karlp> lourence, bt 5.1 is all about positionint stuff
2021-04-11T20:49:46 < Steffann> TLBL
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2021-04-11T21:09:37 < boddax> mr. Steffanx why now Steffann 
2021-04-11T21:10:07 < Steffann> both ;)
2021-04-11T21:10:20 < Steffanx> :)
2021-04-11T21:11:17 < boddax> whos the best?
2021-04-11T21:12:19 < Steffann> none
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2021-04-11T22:50:25 < qyx> TIL RGBA = red, green, blue, amber
2021-04-11T22:52:53 < Steffann> Youre talking about RGBW vs RGBA i assume, qyx?
2021-04-11T22:53:57 < boddax> qyx: red, green, blue, amethyst
2021-04-11T22:55:22 < qyx> yeah I though RGBA and RGBW is the same
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2021-04-11T23:05:45 < rajkosto> RGBA = oRange, oranGe, Burnt sienna, orAnge
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2021-04-11T23:26:01 < specing> I thought it was alpha
2021-04-11T23:26:16 < specing> well, it is alpha
2021-04-11T23:30:05 < karlp> rajkosto: lol
2021-04-11T23:31:26 < antto> someone has an orange fetish
2021-04-11T23:32:35 < karlp> acorn thyme
2021-04-11T23:33:04 < englishman> alpha blending for those transparent LEDs
2021-04-11T23:34:13 < Steffann> Lol this reminds me of this video
2021-04-11T23:34:15 < Steffann> https://youtu.be/-z9vXGajc8c
2021-04-11T23:37:21 < Steffann> Is that you rajkosto ?
2021-04-11T23:41:09 < BrainDamage> RGBW stands for Rolled Gates Black White, it's a standard for oled with a black leds for higher contrast
2021-04-11T23:52:14 < englishman> that must be what all those aliexpress projectors use to project black
--- Day changed Mon Apr 12 2021
2021-04-12T00:00:14 < Laurenceb> big black oleds
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2021-04-12T00:04:30 < Steffann> #BlackLedsMatter 
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2021-04-12T00:18:32 < aandrew> I've got some IR LEDs which are black
2021-04-12T00:19:14 < Laurenceb> >implying that means you cant be racist
2021-04-12T00:20:07 < Laurenceb>  "some of my best LEDs are black"
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2021-04-12T00:21:23 < aandrew> hahaha
2021-04-12T00:35:29 < Laurenceb> theres a mouse in my house thats worryingly smart
2021-04-12T00:35:57 < Laurenceb> its stolen a sandwich, dragged it off, and is munching on it under some heavy furniture
2021-04-12T00:36:06 < Laurenceb> it wont go near any of the traps
2021-04-12T00:36:29 < aandrew> clearly you need to poison your own food
2021-04-12T00:36:43 < aandrew> a little warfarin won't hurt ya
2021-04-12T00:37:06 < Laurenceb> its basically trolling me at this point
2021-04-12T00:37:24 < Laurenceb> yesterday it tried to steal food off my plate
2021-04-12T00:37:36 < englishman> maybe it only seems smart in this specific context
2021-04-12T00:37:49 < englishman> it's only frame of reference is your home
2021-04-12T00:38:01 < englishman> its, fucking assdroid
2021-04-12T00:39:06 < Laurenceb> basically irl gremlins movie
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2021-04-12T00:57:07 < kakium69> sup
2021-04-12T00:57:49 < kakium69> Laurenceb: i have a mouse too
2021-04-12T00:58:49 < kakium69> when I eat some snacks the mouse gets it's part from the floor
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2021-04-12T01:08:31 < Steffann> So early kakium69 
2021-04-12T01:17:16 < kakium69> but you should not let the mouse to boss you
2021-04-12T01:17:30 < kakium69> only the crumble on floor is his
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2021-04-12T01:51:01 < Steffann> Sure not confusing the cat for a mouse kakium69 ?
2021-04-12T01:51:17 < kakium69> no
2021-04-12T01:51:32 < Steffann> Ok
2021-04-12T01:51:47 < kakium69> a legit *sqeewk sqeewk*
2021-04-12T01:52:54 < Steffann> Is your cat a proper hunter?
2021-04-12T01:56:54 < Steffann> Isnt *
2021-04-12T02:11:17 < kakium69> cats are not allowed in my cave
2021-04-12T02:13:13 < Steffann> Wuut...
2021-04-12T02:13:32 < Steffann> You have such nice cat, kakium69 
2021-04-12T02:14:59 < kakium69> it's for safety of the cats
2021-04-12T02:17:06 < kakium69> tech junkyard is not a playground
2021-04-12T02:21:25 < Steffann> The cat here just sneaks in when I leave the door open and... find herself a nice spot to sleep
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2021-04-12T02:24:25 < Laurenceb> latest emdrive tier idea
2021-04-12T02:24:44 < Laurenceb> bury high temp superconductor cable around the earths equator
2021-04-12T02:25:05 < Laurenceb> then use it as a magnetic energy storage device by modulating the earths field
2021-04-12T02:28:29 < kakium69> Steffann: your cat cannot open doors?
2021-04-12T02:29:20 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2021-04-12T02:29:23 < Laurenceb> https://subtle.energy/the-schumann-effect-how-the-earth-influences-your-brain/
2021-04-12T02:29:33 < Laurenceb> searching for this idea took me to crackpot land
2021-04-12T02:30:01 < Laurenceb> I want to know if you could actually "pump" energy into the core
2021-04-12T02:32:27 < kakium69> you sound like a bond villain now
2021-04-12T02:34:34 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-04-12T02:36:11 < Laurenceb> looks like it is possible
2021-04-12T02:36:17 < Laurenceb> but takes hundreds of years
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2021-04-12T02:54:46 < BrainDamage> and disrupt the van halen belts at the same time
2021-04-12T02:55:04 < BrainDamage> who needs cancer free skin anyway
2021-04-12T03:00:17 < englishman> maybe you can reheat the mars core that way
2021-04-12T03:00:23 < englishman> to bring back the atmosphere
2021-04-12T03:04:43 < kakium69> some climate change would be great up here
2021-04-12T03:07:50 < kakium69> lurence could invent like a nuke but that explodes continuously
2021-04-12T03:08:11 < kakium69> artificial sun
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2021-04-12T05:23:12 < landwork> Hi everyone, does anyone know specifically what the STM32F1BCX variants are?
2021-04-12T05:23:25 < landwork>  It's difficult to find documentation, but apparently they are for Chinese market only.
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2021-04-12T05:38:41 < upgrdman> are certain SMD XTAL footprints more common than others? seems like HC-49/US is really common for cheap 8MHz crystals
2021-04-12T05:38:48 < upgrdman> but thats PTH
2021-04-12T05:40:06 < rajkosto> PTH ?
2021-04-12T05:40:13 < rajkosto> that footprint is common for all crystals < 50MHz
2021-04-12T05:40:28 < upgrdman> pin through hole (not SMD)
2021-04-12T05:40:33 < rajkosto> and the same footprint can accomodate both PTH and SMD if you just put both holes and SMD
2021-04-12T05:40:56 < upgrdman> k
2021-04-12T05:41:17 < rajkosto> for higher freq crystals, the more squareish, small shape is more common
2021-04-12T05:41:29 < rajkosto> and doesnt waste a ton of board space like those huge ones do
2021-04-12T05:41:38 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-12T05:42:01 < upgrdman> i like those small squareish ones, but they seem much more expensive. so fuck it, not worth it
2021-04-12T05:42:43 < rajkosto> SMD-3225_4P for higher freq and SMD-3215_2P for lower freq
2021-04-12T05:43:38 < rajkosto> the THT footprint of the huge one is actually better than the SMD, as the legs end up much shorter and less stub length, as well as taking up less space on the board
2021-04-12T05:45:26 < upgrdman> wouldnt the SMD pads short again the case when using PTH version of the crystal?
2021-04-12T05:45:51 < upgrdman> ^ re: hc49us
2021-04-12T05:46:07 < rajkosto> the case is actually connected to nothing
2021-04-12T05:46:22 < upgrdman> ya but the two SMD pads would short to the case
2021-04-12T05:46:26 < upgrdman> shorting the xtal
2021-04-12T05:46:52 < rajkosto> maybe i was always careful not to solder too close to the pcb for that not to happen
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2021-04-12T05:56:05 < rajkosto> the smd ones are that much mroe expensive than tht ?
2021-04-12T05:56:42 < rajkosto> https://images.sshnuke.net/2021-04-12_04-56-31_mScVDZdLA.png alien face
2021-04-12T05:57:45 < rajkosto> vs nice https://images.sshnuke.net/2021-04-12_04-57-38_LENDrg1T9.png
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2021-04-12T06:48:19 < upgrdman__> does usb2 hs still need series resistors for d+/d- ?
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2021-04-12T06:50:28 < rajkosto> for what chip
2021-04-12T06:50:45 < rajkosto> ive never used it even for full speed
2021-04-12T06:50:59 < upgrdman> f730
2021-04-12T06:52:07 < rajkosto> does the datasheet say "no external termination series resistor are required on USB_D+ and USB_D-, the matching impedance is already included in the embedded driver."
2021-04-12T06:53:49 < rajkosto> yes it does https://images.sshnuke.net/2021-04-12_05-53-43_BTxDa5LWw.png
2021-04-12T06:54:16 < rajkosto> so its up to you to include 22ohm resistors on the line or not
2021-04-12T06:55:30 < rajkosto> depends on the impedance of your lines and if you need to add some resistance or not
2021-04-12T06:56:37 < rajkosto> they do include it on the discovery
2021-04-12T06:58:45 < jpa-> upgrdman: no series resistors needed on on anything but F1
2021-04-12T07:01:33 < jpa-> at least if i remember correctly :P
2021-04-12T07:01:42 < rajkosto> most discovery boards have them
2021-04-12T07:02:21 < jpa-> rajkosto: i don't see any series resistors or even places for them in F723 discovery schematics
2021-04-12T07:02:45 < rajkosto> i was looking at the wrong one then, an older one
2021-04-12T07:03:02 < rajkosto> it did say discontinued
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2021-04-12T07:06:25 < jpa-> funnily AN4879 doesn't recommend series resistors for any STM32, though i do remember them being used in the F1 era
2021-04-12T07:07:31 < jpa-> and F7 discovery doesn't seem to have the series resistors even for the STM32F103 st-link chip, even though older discovery boards do have them
2021-04-12T07:07:48 < rajkosto> ive never used any.
2021-04-12T07:07:52 < rajkosto> even on F1
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2021-04-12T08:21:20 < upgrdman> jpa-, thx
2021-04-12T08:23:32 < upgrdman> if im worried that user error could result in lots of current flowing into the PC's USB ground, is the cheapest solution to put a PTC between USB GND and STM32 GND? i think i'd also need a diode up to VBUS to prevent reverse biasing the 3.3V reg, and a diode from VBUS to the regulator to prevent reverse current. then im only worried that D+/D- might be at high voltage when the GND PTC fuse kicks in :(
2021-04-12T08:24:11 < upgrdman> "high voltage" as in whatever voltage the user accidentally connects to GND
2021-04-12T08:24:21 < upgrdman> hopeuflly <20V
2021-04-12T08:25:19 < jpa-> what is the other interface of your device, i.e. where would the user connect the faulty voltage?
2021-04-12T08:26:02 < jpa-> i don't think PTC on USB GND will work very well, as then it would just flow through your diodes
2021-04-12T08:26:17 < upgrdman> ADC input. if the user connects GND to GND (as they should) then everything is fine. but if they connect, say, 10V to GND instead of to the divider feeding the ADC, i don't want to kill their PC by letting 10V at high current flow into USB GND
2021-04-12T08:26:28 < jpa-> could you put a series resistor there?
2021-04-12T08:26:32 < jpa-> or a PTC there
2021-04-12T08:27:05 < upgrdman> series resistor or PTC on the GND pin for the signal going to the ADC?
2021-04-12T08:27:10 < jpa-> yeah
2021-04-12T08:27:13 < upgrdman> hmm
2021-04-12T08:27:20 < jpa-> and clamp diodes on the ADC input like you probably have anyway
2021-04-12T08:27:49 < upgrdman> i suppose a series resistor on GND would be ok. guess i'll try and see how it affect it
2021-04-12T08:29:11 < jpa-> a low-valued fusible resistor can be a good choice, it will limit small voltages to a safe current and for larger currents it will just burn
2021-04-12T08:44:22 < upgrdman> hmm. i wonder how cheap cn ptc fuses are. genuine belfuse is $0.05-$0.10 each, if cn clones are cheaper it might make sense to just use a PTC for each input gnd
2021-04-12T08:46:40 < effractur> but will tehy actually work
2021-04-12T08:47:04 < upgrdman> i wish they made ptc fuse "networks" :) but ya, im sure the thermal coupling would fuck with it
2021-04-12T08:52:45 < zyp> have you considered just galvanically isolating the usb port?
2021-04-12T08:53:05 < upgrdman> how cheap can usb2-hs iso be?
2021-04-12T08:53:20 < jpa-> HS isolators are expensive and hard to find
2021-04-12T08:53:38 < zyp> dunno, I'd rather put the barrier between the ADC and the MCU then
2021-04-12T08:54:03 < zyp> or analog isolators in front of the ADC might be an option
2021-04-12T08:54:08 < jpa-> isolated ADCs are a bit more common, but on the other hand if there is no main purpose in being isolated and it is just against user error, the fuse seems ok
2021-04-12T08:54:14 < upgrdman> adc is in the mcu. but ya, PTC'ing the user's GND pins is prolly cheapest
2021-04-12T08:55:13 < jpa-> it's still more friendly than most scopes that just go "let there be smoke!" when you mess up with gnd
2021-04-12T08:56:01 < zyp> or trip the RCD :)
2021-04-12T08:56:15 < jpa-> or that, if you do it with mains
2021-04-12T08:56:21 < zyp> been there, done that
2021-04-12T08:57:16 < jpa-> but sounds like upgrdman's system is low voltage anyway, so RCD wouldn't apply
2021-04-12T08:57:29 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-12T08:57:37 < upgrdman> basically a usb o-scope/datalogger
2021-04-12T08:57:46 < upgrdman> low voltage. prolly 15V max in
2021-04-12T08:59:09 < zyp> I'm just worried that if you put protection on GND, the current will just flow through signal paths instead with larger damage potential
2021-04-12T08:59:47 < jpa-> i assume one would have clamping diodes after the input resistor divider, to protect against users connecting too high or negative voltages
2021-04-12T09:01:18 < upgrdman> im wondering if the internal tvs diode are good enough. theres ~80K between input voltage and ADC pin, so it should stress the internal esd shits?
2021-04-12T09:01:29 < upgrdman> shouldnt stress*
2021-04-12T09:03:43 < jpa-> according to AN4899, 5V-tolerant pins used for ADC inputs have parasitic diode to Vref+, but that parasitic diode is not as strong as the input ESD diodes that clamp at 5V
2021-04-12T09:05:10 < jpa-> "The parasitic diodes are not characterized for reliability."
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2021-04-12T09:35:01 < jpa-> this happens confusingly often: i search for some problem that i haven't encoutered before, find some stackoverflow answer "yay, this is exactly what i need, let's upvote"... "You can't vote for your own post."
2021-04-12T09:36:22 < zyp> haha
2021-04-12T09:43:57 < ventyl> :D
2021-04-12T10:06:46 < mawk> lol jpa- 
2021-04-12T10:06:51 < mawk> should get that memory checked
2021-04-12T10:07:04 < mawk> fast answer without thinking: how old are you?
2021-04-12T10:07:06 < mawk> ???
2021-04-12T10:10:31 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM]
2021-04-12T10:14:59 < ventyl> dementia is not very picky about age
2021-04-12T10:16:21 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-12T10:18:09 < Steffann> I think I have dementia. I had to get diesel for my car Saturday and first I entered my old pincode. Then I started to think and didn't know it anymore.. 2nd try was wrong
2021-04-12T10:18:47 < Steffann> 3rd try = blocked card 😑
2021-04-12T10:18:58 < Steffann> 3rd wrong try that is
2021-04-12T10:19:44 < effractur> Steffann: i guess you just never pay with the pin anymore i guess
2021-04-12T10:19:51 < Steffann> Not so often
2021-04-12T10:20:09 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-12T10:20:28 < Steffann> But come on. I know it.... I went back home and suddenly I knew the right combo of digits. 
2021-04-12T10:23:15 < jpa-> mawk: i've been trying to calculate that for 16 minutes now but i'm not sure
2021-04-12T10:23:38 < jpa-> 32? 33?
2021-04-12T10:23:41 < jpa-> wow i'm old
2021-04-12T10:37:17 < zyp> I don't post on stackoverflow, but I've read comments on github, thought «huh, that makes sense» and then realized I wrote it
2021-04-12T10:41:13 < Steffann> Did you write something nice about ##stm32 and especially me in your last will, jpa- ?
2021-04-12T10:42:47 < ventyl> Steffann: I experienced this once. typically you have pinpads on ATMs and POS terminals with 1 in upper left corner. but for some reason postal services machines have it opposite. muscle memory failed, so did my attempt to perform a transaction
2021-04-12T10:44:37 < Steffann> B
2021-04-12T10:44:40 < Steffann> Oops
2021-04-12T10:44:55 < Steffann> To be honest I don't even know what it is here. 
2021-04-12T10:45:29 < Steffann> 1 top left I think indeed
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2021-04-12T10:50:47 < ventyl> that's exactly the root cause. you don't know it as long it is always the same
2021-04-12T10:52:16 < jpa-> Steffann: i do have a paper that tells someone to tell ##stm32 i died
2021-04-12T10:52:17 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone to sleep...]
2021-04-12T10:54:30 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-04-12T10:57:41 < BrainDamage> i reguarly search stuff on the internet only to land on a page I already had bookmarked with tags about solutions for the problem I'm having
2021-04-12T10:58:53 < BrainDamage> re: death, i know a few people that died and their accounts lingers on irc like a ghost
2021-04-12T10:59:08 < BrainDamage> it's kind of creepy
2021-04-12T10:59:28 < BrainDamage> maybe it explains why so many users are silent
2021-04-12T11:00:03 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-12T11:00:56 < Xogium> so I want to use some mics with stm32, but I honestly am not sure how to do this. I suppose I need some kind of amplification for the audio signal
2021-04-12T11:01:40 < Xogium> I'm just not sure how this will all fit together, or if some mics don't have any kind of amplification required ?
2021-04-12T11:01:54 < zyp> mics for what? some of the discovery boards comes with mics, so you might look at those to evaluate suitability
2021-04-12T11:02:02 < zyp> e.g. f4-discovery
2021-04-12T11:02:19 < BrainDamage> f3 series also have builtin opamps
2021-04-12T11:02:23 < jpa-> easiest might be to use some mems mic that has I2S output, then you don't need to do any analog design; e.g. SPH0645LM4H
2021-04-12T11:02:29 < Xogium> working on stm32mp1 here
2021-04-12T11:02:51 < zyp> and yeah, I would absolutely use a mic with digital output
2021-04-12T11:03:03 < Xogium> I'm trying to have high fidelity for sound, for the most part. Kinda like these offer
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2021-04-12T11:03:16 < Xogium> https://www.mouser.fr/datasheet/2/334/TOM-1537L-HD-R-1219385.pdf
2021-04-12T11:03:42 < jpa-> it's easy to ruin audio quality at any step :)
2021-04-12T11:03:55 < Xogium> yep and that's what I don't want to do ;)
2021-04-12T11:04:38 < zyp> mostly the analog steps
2021-04-12T11:04:47 < zyp> so less analog -> easier
2021-04-12T11:04:55 < Xogium> fair
2021-04-12T11:06:07 < Xogium> I just don't want the kind of mic that's usually used for only recording speech, but would allow to capture the 20 -20khz spectrum with good quality
2021-04-12T11:06:12 < jpa-> and less steps you do yourself -> easier
2021-04-12T11:07:04 < jpa-> getting down to 20 Hz is a bit hard, but otherwise most mics nowadays are pretty good
2021-04-12T11:07:13 < Xogium> and yeah I know its very easy to ruin audio… The player for the blind I got had that very problem
2021-04-12T11:07:14 < jpa-> though that can also be ruined with enclosure design
2021-04-12T11:07:47 < Xogium> they embedded the mic so deep in the board that you heard the whine of the internal flash more than the voices and sounds coming from around you
2021-04-12T11:08:19 < BrainDamage> that mic has a 10 dB bump around 12kHz
2021-04-12T11:08:45 < Xogium> ah, damn, frequency diagram I suppose ?
2021-04-12T11:08:50 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-04-12T11:09:16 < BrainDamage> fortunately it's positive, so you can equalize it out
2021-04-12T11:09:20 < Xogium> figure, that explains why I missed that part
2021-04-12T11:09:51 < BrainDamage> yeah, still more honest than many other vendors
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2021-04-12T11:10:03 < Xogium> yep that's something
2021-04-12T11:10:23 < Xogium> so this one's analog right ?
2021-04-12T11:10:37 < Xogium> maybe there's the same thing for digital
2021-04-12T11:10:38 < BrainDamage> the one you linked, yes
2021-04-12T11:10:51 < BrainDamage> there are plenty
2021-04-12T11:11:20 < Xogium> but my understanding was that most mics that are digital are MEM, and a lot of them are only managing 10khz max
2021-04-12T11:12:33 < Xogium> would be neat if mouser let you filter for analog or digital
2021-04-12T11:12:49 < zyp> can't you?
2021-04-12T11:12:55 < Xogium> nop
2021-04-12T11:13:21 < jpa-> you can search for "i2s" though
2021-04-12T11:13:45 < Xogium> can filter for the smd/smt, solderless, etc. Also for frequency, operating current, dimentions, frequencies
2021-04-12T11:14:36 < BrainDamage> Xogium: you have a braille keyboard, right?
2021-04-12T11:14:54 < Xogium> hmm only display, my keyboard is normal
2021-04-12T11:14:56 < BrainDamage> sorry, not keyboard, output device
2021-04-12T11:15:00 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T11:15:23 < BrainDamage> there's a few programs capable to output to terminal as ascii art
2021-04-12T11:15:49 < BrainDamage> perhaps that might be able to let you feel the plots
2021-04-12T11:16:30 < Xogium> hmm not really. Ascii art is mostly weird for me :p its just a bunch of characters without meaning aside from, what's this ? Ah, its an 'o'
2021-04-12T11:16:50 < BrainDamage> for line plots it shouldn't be hard
2021-04-12T11:17:12 < BrainDamage> since you'd be tracking the bump
2021-04-12T11:17:43 < Xogium> well I don't know really, but its kinda like smileys. They don't mean anything to me, I use them because I've seen others doing it and they told me what the smileys stand for
2021-04-12T11:17:53 < BrainDamage> you won' t be able to measure them quantitatively, but at least qualitaively
2021-04-12T11:18:31 < Xogium> cause well, honestly :O for me means colon O
2021-04-12T11:19:21 < BrainDamage> the colon typically makes eyes and the big O looks like a wide open mouth
2021-04-12T11:19:49 < BrainDamage> and the result is seen sideways
2021-04-12T11:21:29 < srk> telnet mapscii.me
2021-04-12T11:21:41 < BrainDamage> parenthesis are often mouths, while ; : make eyes, and dashes make the optional nose, near the toality of smileys are to be read left to rightt
2021-04-12T11:21:52 < srk> that one uses braille characters to render map
2021-04-12T11:22:34 < Xogium> exactly
2021-04-12T11:23:10 < Xogium> I know what they are because I've been told. But in my brain its still not making a representation of a mouth since its a character
2021-04-12T11:24:14 < Xogium> found this as digital mic, but not sure, -26 db sensitivity
2021-04-12T11:24:17 < Xogium> https://www.mouser.fr/datasheet/2/334/DMM_4026_B_I2S_R-1761385.pdf
2021-04-12T11:24:49 < BrainDamage> it's better than the analog one you linked earlier
2021-04-12T11:25:05 < Laurenceb> inb4 you have to make it work with lunix
2021-04-12T11:25:14 < Xogium> better in what way ?
2021-04-12T11:25:23 < BrainDamage> sensitivity
2021-04-12T11:26:03 < Xogium> so that means less work to do for gain here ?
2021-04-12T11:26:08 < Xogium> as in audio gain
2021-04-12T11:26:24 < BrainDamage> 10dB bump at 7kHz, 15dB bump at 15kHz
2021-04-12T11:26:41 < BrainDamage> and cutoff around 17-18kHz
2021-04-12T11:27:21 < Xogium> hm, sounds better indeed
2021-04-12T11:27:30 < BrainDamage> audio gain is not a replacement for sensitivity
2021-04-12T11:27:54 < BrainDamage> because when you amplify, you amplify both mic's noise and signal
2021-04-12T11:28:05 < Xogium> right
2021-04-12T11:28:33 < BrainDamage> what you care is mic's noise, amp's noise and sensitivity
2021-04-12T11:28:40 < Xogium> but I still need some kind of amplifier here, don't I
2021-04-12T11:28:46 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T11:29:15 < Xogium> s/n of that mic seems okay-ish. I've seen much much better but then again, it was for pro audio
2021-04-12T11:30:09 < Xogium> and I also saw much worse
2021-04-12T11:30:36 < BrainDamage> it's digital out, the amplifier is builtin on chip, if you want a digital amplification it's just multiplication by a constant
2021-04-12T11:30:51 < Xogium> ah, so it does have amplifier built-in
2021-04-12T11:30:59 < Xogium> nice
2021-04-12T11:31:42 < BrainDamage> the builtin amp likely has programmable gain
2021-04-12T11:32:06 < Xogium> gonna be fun to set that up in linux
2021-04-12T11:32:09 < Xogium> ;)
2021-04-12T11:35:03 < BrainDamage> Xogium: a "digital' mic is not an analogue-less mic, it's just one mic that has the analog chain builtin in the mic, so amp, filter, adc, etc are onboard
2021-04-12T11:35:26 < BrainDamage> amplifier being builtin for a digital mic is the norm
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2021-04-12T11:36:13 < BrainDamage> and same applies for near totality of digital version of sensors
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2021-04-12T11:40:20 < Xogium> nice
2021-04-12T11:41:08 < Xogium> I'm used to analog still :p my pro high-end recorder has analog mics and separate amp and such
2021-04-12T11:45:29 < Xogium> but its more justified in high-end stuff I think, since you can plug external mics in there
2021-04-12T11:46:27 < ventyl> in high-end you may want different physical properties, such as directionality. so external mic is almost always a must
2021-04-12T11:52:31 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T11:53:42 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-12T11:54:08 < Xogium> stm32mp1 has 4xSAI stereo audio
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2021-04-12T11:54:36 < Xogium> i2s, pdm, spdif tx/rx with 4 inputs
2021-04-12T11:56:08 < Xogium> so I could connect this i2s mic to the i2s interface
2021-04-12T11:56:13 < Xogium> correct ?
2021-04-12T11:57:13 < zyp> yes
2021-04-12T11:59:26 < Xogium> I see
2021-04-12T12:00:07 < Xogium> and if I want to let the user use external or internal mics, I'd need a 2nd i2s interface ?
2021-04-12T12:01:56 < zyp> yes
2021-04-12T12:02:51 < zyp> I mean, if you're going for an i2s ADC you either need to feed that into a second i2s interface, or mux it
2021-04-12T12:03:33 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-12T12:04:03 < Xogium> I'm only seeing what the SoC itself is offering right now
2021-04-12T12:04:20 < Xogium> the board I currently have as dev board has a jack for both headphone and mic in
2021-04-12T12:04:51 < Xogium> but I'd want mine to have internal speakers/mics and possibility of using headphones/external mic
2021-04-12T12:05:02 < Xogium> but not sure how to really go about it
2021-04-12T12:05:05 < Xogium> at least so far
2021-04-12T12:05:52 < zyp> audio codec chips often have multiple ports (speaker/line out/line in/mic) etc
2021-04-12T12:06:07 < Xogium> yea
2021-04-12T12:06:44 < Xogium> so vendor connected a separate IC to it then
2021-04-12T12:07:02 < Xogium> since st only provide the interfaces not the codec
2021-04-12T12:07:03 < zyp> so a reasonable approach might be to have one i2s interface dedicated for internal mics, and another i2s interface in bidir mode hooked to a codec chip that both drives the internal speakers plus handles external speakers and mic
2021-04-12T12:09:43 < Xogium> right. Not sure from here but it looks like stm32mp1 has only 1 i2s
2021-04-12T12:12:09 < Xogium> can't exactly check up the schematics to be sure though, but the features page only shows 4 SAI stereo audio interface: i2s, pdm, spdif rx/tx with 4 inputs
2021-04-12T12:12:13 < zyp> looks like three to me
2021-04-12T12:12:28 < zyp> ah, and 4x SAI
2021-04-12T12:12:33 < zyp> which IIRC has i2s mode
2021-04-12T12:13:27 < Xogium> yeah. I thought it was the only i2s given that I've not seen it anywhere else on the features
2021-04-12T12:14:24 < Laurenceb> wtf https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56715520
2021-04-12T12:14:25 < Xogium> I really need some way to be able to check schematics somehow ;)
2021-04-12T12:14:35 < Laurenceb> >a large explosion from a "cyber" attack
2021-04-12T12:14:42 < Laurenceb> yeah right
2021-04-12T12:15:03 < Xogium> riiiight
2021-04-12T12:15:07 < mawk> lol
2021-04-12T12:15:13 < mawk> it's not so unbelievable Laurenceb 
2021-04-12T12:15:19 < mawk> a cyber attack on a dam could flood a region
2021-04-12T12:15:29 < mawk> especially if it's a stupidly constructed dam just like our favorite guardians of revolution can do
2021-04-12T12:15:51 < Xogium> fair
2021-04-12T12:16:17 < mawk> this thing in uranium centrifuges is exactly what happened a few years ago with stuxnet virus
2021-04-12T12:16:25 < Laurenceb> mawk: even if they connected the power system to the internets, it shouldnt be explodable in software
2021-04-12T12:16:30 < Xogium> so, er, 3 i2s you say ?
2021-04-12T12:16:32 < mawk> again by israel or whatever against iran
2021-04-12T12:16:44 < Xogium> zyp: :)
2021-04-12T12:16:44 < Laurenceb> mawk: yeah but with the centrifuges they screwed with the settings for months
2021-04-12T12:16:51 < Laurenceb> causing massive confusion
2021-04-12T12:17:12 < Laurenceb> because they used off the shelf motor control hardware controlled by labview (lol)
2021-04-12T12:17:36 < mawk> lol
2021-04-12T12:17:39 < Laurenceb> no sane power supply could be literally exploded by software
2021-04-12T12:18:02 < mawk> if it's like a diesel generator it probably can be made to explode
2021-04-12T12:18:02 < Laurenceb> cyber attacks are a meme
2021-04-12T12:18:06 < zyp> Xogium, three spi peripherals that supports i2s mode and another four sai peripherals that also supports i2s mode, so effectively you can have seven i2s interfaces as far as I can tell
2021-04-12T12:18:16 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-12T12:18:19 < Xogium> wow
2021-04-12T12:18:27 < zyp> not sure if they can all also be bidirectional or not
2021-04-12T12:18:32 < Xogium> right… That's not going to be a big problem then
2021-04-12T12:23:13 < Xogium> sounds like that approache might work, zyp :)
2021-04-12T12:23:15 < Xogium> thanks
2021-04-12T12:23:38 < Xogium> now just need to find a sane i2s audio codec that will work well in linux
2021-04-12T12:24:12 < zyp> look at whatever they used on the mp1 evalboard?
2021-04-12T12:24:18 < mawk> Laurenceb: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56713953
2021-04-12T12:24:33 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T12:24:39 < Laurenceb> keeek mawk
2021-04-12T12:24:47 < Laurenceb> irl cargo cult
2021-04-12T12:24:50 < Xogium> seeed made one, but its got several issues with its driver
2021-04-12T12:25:01 < zyp> no, I mean the official one from ST
2021-04-12T12:25:10 < Xogium> ah er yeah, sorry
2021-04-12T12:25:13 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-12T12:40:55 < Xogium> ahah, found the codec st used
2021-04-12T12:41:00 < Xogium> https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs42l51/
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2021-04-12T12:44:41 < zyp> only has one output pair though
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2021-04-12T12:50:59 < Xogium> but it looks like I might need to find another solution because lead time is 52 weeks, and mouser is currently out of stock
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2021-04-12T13:08:46 < ventyl> welcome to 2021
2021-04-12T13:09:00 < Xogium> aye
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2021-04-12T14:44:34 < kakium69> hwllo
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2021-04-12T14:48:20 < Steffann> Good morning kakium69 
2021-04-12T14:48:29 < kakium69> morgon
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2021-04-12T15:31:58 < englishman> https://github.com/zhuowei/nft_ptr
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2021-04-12T15:36:31 < c10ud> ahahah
2021-04-12T15:43:23 < benishor> way to burn some cycles
2021-04-12T15:43:33 < fenugrec> it's.... a joke, right ?
2021-04-12T15:43:48 < benishor> had my first pfizer jab
2021-04-12T15:43:56 < benishor> a bit scared about the second one
2021-04-12T15:44:11 < fenugrec> ah, " As we all know, adding blockchain to a problem automatically makes it simple, transparent, and cryptographically secure. "
2021-04-12T15:45:03 < ventyl> not more than senior blockchain expert needed posts by HRs :)
2021-04-12T15:45:37 < jpa-> grr this max77975 is freaking me out
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2021-04-12T15:46:20 < jpa-> how am i supposed to design this into product when i cannot solder it without shorts even once
2021-04-12T15:46:36 < rajkosto> not even once ?
2021-04-12T15:46:40 < fenugrec> buy the devboard, then PCBA
2021-04-12T15:47:14 < jpa-> and when pcba arrives shorted?
2021-04-12T15:47:20 < fenugrec> hahaha
2021-04-12T15:47:25 < fenugrec> give up
2021-04-12T15:48:09 < jpa-> i mean, the footprint feels like it's designed to be as annoying as possible
2021-04-12T15:48:12 < fenugrec> they have some nice testpoint posts, https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/images/qv/10771.png
2021-04-12T15:48:46 < fenugrec> and looks like they ripped off a big smd capacitor C42 in the middle heh
2021-04-12T15:51:54 < jpa-> i wouldn't even need it to be this tiny, but it has the perfect set of features
2021-04-12T15:53:14 < jpa-> it seems the combination of big pads on one side and small ones on other and some having ground plane connection just messes up everything
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2021-04-12T16:00:22 < karlp> heh, think I found an arm-none regression in gcc 10..
2021-04-12T16:00:30  * PaulFertser wanted to show TDA21470 with somewhat similar footprint that was problematic even for a professional PCBA place but apparently the datasheet is not public :/
2021-04-12T16:01:21 < PaulFertser> Fuck infineon
2021-04-12T16:01:38 < karlp> so I was looking at this sort of cruft, all through the ST code: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/QxNrc
2021-04-12T16:02:18 < karlp> and played with in godbolt: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/QxNrc and it's actually smaller code for the ST style vs memcopy on arm-non 7,8,9
2021-04-12T16:02:48 < karlp> but on 10, it explodes it out to 16 individual byte writes and memcpy wins again.
2021-04-12T16:04:11 < tct> karlp, 2nd link is the same as 1st
2021-04-12T16:04:41 < karlp> oh, sorry, https://godbolt.org/z/qvxfzEvd5
2021-04-12T16:04:54 < karlp> gcc 5 and 10 both explode the arm 16 elemnt copy to do it bytewise, 
2021-04-12T16:05:07 < karlp> gcc 7,8,9 all do it as a bunch of double words, and it's smaller than the memcpy
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2021-04-12T16:37:37 < Xogium> hmm so, did folks in here work with the stpmic1 chip ? I'm curious if I could use it to handle battery management, or its more meant for things like powersaving modes, management of power buttons, etc
2021-04-12T16:38:08 < Xogium> I want to use lifepo4 battery in this project so I reckon I need to find a good IC for this
2021-04-12T16:51:36 < qyx> no, stpmic1 is specifically designed for MPUs
2021-04-12T16:51:48 < qyx> many LDOs and BUCKs
2021-04-12T16:52:04 < qyx> and a boost for OTG
2021-04-12T16:54:34 < Xogium> ah, right
2021-04-12T16:55:01 < Xogium> I *think* this one does sound sane, from the info I get in the datasheet
2021-04-12T16:55:13 < Xogium> https://www.mouser.fr/datasheet/2/609/409836f-1270267.pdf
2021-04-12T16:56:20 < Xogium> but not sure if all it does is charging
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2021-04-12T17:04:21 < karlp> hrm, demos full of legacy header types, I wonder if you can do it "non-legacy" style...
2021-04-12T17:13:04 < zyp> karlp, FTFY https://godbolt.org/z/dP15E94h4 :p
2021-04-12T17:18:39 < karlp> what did you change?
2021-04-12T17:19:15 < zyp> -O3
2021-04-12T17:19:19 < zyp> hence :p
2021-04-12T17:20:12 < zyp> maybe whatever optimization pass is needed got moved to -O3
2021-04-12T17:21:05 < karlp> I'm actually surprised it doesn't just inline the memcpy of the fixed size using the three double words. like it does for the ST version in gcc9.
2021-04-12T17:21:07  * karlp shrugs
2021-04-12T17:21:12 < karlp> a distraction anyway.
2021-04-12T17:21:46 < zyp> hardly seems a worthwhile thing to spend time microoptimizing :)
2021-04-12T17:22:34 < karlp> I actually thought memcpy was pretty heavily optimized for many of the "small" sizes, but this is newlib-nano, so maybe not so much :)
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2021-04-12T17:24:52 < ventyl> i've seen something similar with avr-libc
2021-04-12T17:25:05 < ventyl> even plain stupid for () could be a bit smaller
2021-04-12T17:27:28 < karlp> definitely makes smaller.
2021-04-12T17:28:03 < karlp> not sure if it's as efficient though, it doesn't recognize that it can use bigger types than byte, even though none of it's volatile...
2021-04-12T17:29:51  * karlp shrugs. already toomuch time on it.
2021-04-12T17:39:17 < Laurenceb> https://i.imgur.com/SGg4Xz1.png
2021-04-12T17:39:26 < Laurenceb> muh first transistor preamplifier
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2021-04-12T17:43:20 < qyx> Xogium: look good
2021-04-12T17:43:22 < qyx> looks
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2021-04-12T17:44:52 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: I get why L2, but L1?
2021-04-12T17:45:13 < Laurenceb> extra EMI rejection
2021-04-12T17:45:27 < Laurenceb> it helps in spice...
2021-04-12T17:46:19 < emeb> buddy accidentally programmed an H7 PLL to get 400MHz from 8MHz xtal, but had 16MHz xtal installed. Now it looks like the chip is fried - won't start, draws high current even with wrong xtal removed. Anyone seen this before?
2021-04-12T17:46:52 < specing> ouch
2021-04-12T17:47:18 < emeb> I've overclocked F3/F4 parts and they survived. Never seen it actually kill a part.
2021-04-12T17:47:31 < Laurenceb> wow
2021-04-12T17:47:59 < Laurenceb> sounds iranian nuclear program tier if true
2021-04-12T17:48:14 < emeb> dat SCADA
2021-04-12T17:48:34 < Laurenceb> probably fud by mossad tbh
2021-04-12T17:49:03 < Laurenceb> >power supply literally explodes due to control system hacking
2021-04-12T17:49:55 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: top right is sound card input, the other stuff is simulated strain gauge input and abuse inputs
2021-04-12T17:50:14 < BrainDamage> eh, if you're dumb and your safety mechanisms are in high level software it's plausible
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2021-04-12T17:50:30 < qyx> L4 is okish with 80 -> 140 MHz
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2021-04-12T17:52:41 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: believe or not, I had an excercise in one of my courses that was nearly identical, so it's not hard to follow, it just had mos instead of jfet
2021-04-12T17:53:21 < Laurenceb> yeah its kind of fun once you understand the principles, I've never designed transistor amps before
2021-04-12T17:53:33 < Laurenceb> looks like this will get to about 3.5dB noise figure
2021-04-12T17:53:56 < Laurenceb> and be very stable, about +-0.1% gain shift over temperature
2021-04-12T17:55:02 < Laurenceb> its prob better than opamp, has very good emi rejection and runs off "phantom power"
2021-04-12T17:56:04 < BrainDamage> it's easy to beat opamps for a specific pourpose
2021-04-12T17:56:50 < Laurenceb> I'm going to use it between coupling transformer and my sss1629 adaptor
2021-04-12T17:58:04 < BrainDamage> try to see if you can replace R6 with another transistor with fixed currrent
2021-04-12T17:58:12 < BrainDamage> that'll maximize the gain
2021-04-12T17:58:42 < BrainDamage> because it'll exihibit Va/Ibias impedance
2021-04-12T17:59:32 < BrainDamage> which goes in parallel to the Va/Ibias/(1+gmVa/Ibias) of the transistor above
2021-04-12T17:59:34 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2021-04-12T18:00:07 < Laurenceb> well its already at x20 voltage gain, which is good enough
2021-04-12T18:00:26 < Laurenceb> but I guess adding extra open loop gain will improve stability over temperature etc
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2021-04-12T18:34:36 < karlp> bleh, st apis use a different type for uuids, dependingo n the context.
2021-04-12T18:34:39 < karlp> they're fucking uuids...
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2021-04-12T18:39:37 < jpa-> karlp: iirc silabs stuff uses tag numbers for gatt uuids, to avoid storing 16 bytes for every item
2021-04-12T18:40:07 < jpa-> constant prefix and 16 bit changing part
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2021-04-12T18:48:59 < karlp> sure, but that's not what st has done here...
2021-04-12T18:49:46 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/qfLAH
2021-04-12T18:50:43 < karlp> great, my uuids are all backwards. hooray
2021-04-12T18:52:33 < karlp> and now, looking at what I pasted on godbolt earlier, I can see how st reverses them..
2021-04-12T18:52:35 < karlp> nice.
2021-04-12T18:56:33 < PaulFertser> Probe socket in my DMM got ripped off inside :/
2021-04-12T18:58:43 < PaulFertser> Metal literally torn
2021-04-12T18:59:02 < PaulFertser> UNI-T UT60A, not the cheapest shit.
2021-04-12T19:00:48 < PaulFertser> I have flux that should work for stainless steel but it won't last long anyway. I wonder if I can order a replacement part.
2021-04-12T19:09:34 < qyx> I have UT61D or whatever it is
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2021-04-12T20:01:34 < PaulFertser> The back cover suggests removing test lead before changing battery "to avoid electrical shock", hm.
2021-04-12T20:01:47 < Steffann> No disaster pics PaulFertser ?
2021-04-12T20:02:16 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: to the user, not the device
2021-04-12T20:02:21 < PaulFertser> Steffann: sorry, I just do not have a camera to make any.
2021-04-12T20:02:51 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: 9 V battery is unlikely to give any electrical shock.
2021-04-12T20:02:56 < Steffann> No camera, whoa.
2021-04-12T20:02:59 < BrainDamage> as in, there'll be exposed pads which contact directly the device
2021-04-12T20:03:07 < BrainDamage> to the leeads
2021-04-12T20:03:28 < BrainDamage> so if your leads are wired to 220V, so will be some pads
2021-04-12T20:04:09 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: hm, I see now, thanks for clarifying.
2021-04-12T20:06:08 < PaulFertser> Steffann: my device has sockets similar to these: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/paulossant/Uni-t_Multimeter/master/IMG_20200605_133151~2.jpg and somehow the metal strip got torn off the metal sleeve for the V probe, and half-torn for the GND probe.
2021-04-12T20:08:20 < PaulFertser> I was using it for many years. Won semi-finals of a "fastest correct order on our new web shop" competition at an electronics fair. Then won finals and got an acer travelmate (cheap) laptop.
2021-04-12T20:09:22 < Xogium> hmmm, can someone confirm that cs42l52 from cirus logic is not i2s ?
2021-04-12T20:09:33 < Xogium> I tried to read the specs and datasheet but didn't quite find it
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2021-04-12T20:14:28 < Laurenceb> https://i.imgur.com/0xOhvzF.png
2021-04-12T20:14:39 < Laurenceb> preamp works well as long an there isnt too much emi
2021-04-12T20:14:39 < Steffann> It's not i2s Xogium 
2021-04-12T20:16:13 < Steffann> Or maybe it does have i2s as well. 
2021-04-12T20:16:48 < Xogium> Steffann: yeah that's what I'm really not clear about
2021-04-12T20:17:11 < Steffann> It has serial audio with signals that look like i2s 
2021-04-12T20:17:49 < Steffann> You need something with i2s Xogium ?
2021-04-12T20:17:53 < Xogium> just trying to find a good audio codec that is i2s for use on stm32mp1. So good codec for quality, low power enough to run on battery, and supported in mainline linux would be what I'm after
2021-04-12T20:18:56 < Xogium> well I think the stm32mp1 has a few options for SAI, i2s, spdif rx/tx with 4 inputs and pdm. I'm not familiar with either
2021-04-12T20:20:49 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: look at iip3 and 1 db compression point definitions, so you can compare yours with others
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2021-04-12T20:26:32 < Xogium> Steffann: I have 0 experience with doing analog audio, and its very easy to fsck things up, so want to do digital instead
2021-04-12T20:27:00 < antto> did someone say audio?
2021-04-12T20:27:07 < zyp> no
2021-04-12T20:27:13 < antto> :~(
2021-04-12T20:27:26 < antto> ur so cruel, zyp
2021-04-12T20:27:39 < Xogium> antto: I did
2021-04-12T20:27:40 < Xogium> :p
2021-04-12T20:28:18 < antto> i'm split between two incompatible statements
2021-04-12T20:30:34 < zyp> Steffann, did you miss the datasheet page that says «The serial port operates in standard I2S, …»?
2021-04-12T20:31:56 < Xogium> zyp: to be fair I did miss it first, or wouldn't have asked initially. But currently my only way to read a pdf is to have the tts read it *all*. If I have the idea to pause it I have to restart the reading… from the very beginning. I can't even move to other pages
2021-04-12T20:32:04 < Xogium> so, sorry for the mess :S
2021-04-12T20:32:23 < zyp> yeah, that's why I blame Steffann 
2021-04-12T20:32:28 < Xogium> I really, really hate pdf
2021-04-12T20:33:05 < Xogium> it used to work better but now if I try to move with the arrows, all I get is the title
2021-04-12T20:33:08 < antto> tts?
2021-04-12T20:33:14 < zyp> text to speech
2021-04-12T20:33:17 < Xogium> antto: text to speech
2021-04-12T20:33:22 < Xogium> huh faster
2021-04-12T20:33:25 < antto> hm..
2021-04-12T20:33:47 < antto> any particular reason for doing it that way?
2021-04-12T20:33:59 < Xogium> blind
2021-04-12T20:34:10 < antto> oh.. well.. crap
2021-04-12T20:34:16 < Xogium> ;)
2021-04-12T20:34:38 < antto> often there are highly useful illustrations and signal graphs in those datasheets..
2021-04-12T20:34:45 < Steffann> zyp, i didnt read that far :P
2021-04-12T20:34:48 < Xogium> so er, sounds like I might have found some neat codec to use, then
2021-04-12T20:34:54 < Steffann> i was going to, but then i got distracted
2021-04-12T20:35:03 < Xogium> antto: yeah, that just sucks for me
2021-04-12T20:35:36 < Xogium> I mean, since the cs42l51 isn't available I guess next best thing is cs42l52
2021-04-12T20:35:41 < PaulFertser> Xogium: poppler-utils comes with pdftotext , and then you can navigate it as any regular plain text file. 
2021-04-12T20:35:42 < Steffann> If you dont need the mux+adc you can probably find something easier/cheaper Xogium
2021-04-12T20:35:45 < PaulFertser> And search etc.
2021-04-12T20:36:14 < Xogium> PaulFertser: yeah but that usually completely destroy tables
2021-04-12T20:36:19 < Xogium> and formatting in general
2021-04-12T20:37:07 < ventyl> pdftotext is almost completely useless
2021-04-12T20:37:22 < ventyl> it makes pretty bad job in putting out text in "as you see" order
2021-04-12T20:37:38 < Xogium> Steffann: I'm not sure yet what I'd need. But basically want to connect internal mics, but also allow the user to switch between the integrated an external mic should they have one
2021-04-12T20:37:42 < ventyl> so you are mostly dependant on the order which was used by creator tool
2021-04-12T20:37:44 < Xogium> Steffann: same for speaker/headphones
2021-04-12T20:38:46 < PaulFertser> Oh, and in this particular case searching for I2S doesn't work because they actually used the superscript digit two.
2021-04-12T20:38:48 < Steffann> In my defence, in my 3 seconds reading i did search for i2s and no results, zyp :P
2021-04-12T20:39:15 < Steffann> but maybe is shouldnt try to read a pdf on my phone in the first place
2021-04-12T20:39:51 < antto> f*ck exotic chars >:/
2021-04-12T20:40:04  * antto hides
2021-04-12T20:40:15 < PaulFertser> Yes, I²S is mentioned five times
2021-04-12T20:40:16 < Steffann> da da
2021-04-12T20:40:32 < antto> eye-two-es
2021-04-12T20:40:38 < PaulFertser> Squared
2021-04-12T20:40:43 < BrainDamage> search engines have quite a bit of logic to handle thesaurus, omonyms, transliteration, etc
2021-04-12T20:41:09 < BrainDamage> unfortunately ctrl f function is often pretty naive
2021-04-12T20:41:26 < Steffann> affirmative
2021-04-12T20:41:54 < BrainDamage> one alternative could be to take those dektop indexers and limit it to a specific folder
2021-04-12T20:42:09 < BrainDamage> this way it won't randomly grind your cpu as they like to do
2021-04-12T20:42:28 < BrainDamage> and you can put your docs there and get semi-intelligent searches
2021-04-12T20:42:45 < BrainDamage> ( it's what i do for datasheets, papers, etc )
2021-04-12T20:43:20 < Xogium> its about 5 euros on mouser, but if I could get away with a cheaper one, why not
2021-04-12T20:43:41 < Xogium> I'm just trying to find some components right now
2021-04-12T20:47:08 < Steffann> Just curious can you even read the diagrams etc somehow Xogium? 
2021-04-12T20:48:19 < Xogium> Steffann: nop and that sucks high time
2021-04-12T20:48:24  * antto puts a black facemask on Steffann's eyez
2021-04-12T20:48:31 < Xogium> hehehe
2021-04-12T20:48:51 < antto> our prime minister wears it that way ;P~
2021-04-12T20:48:53 < Steffann> what is black antto?
2021-04-12T20:49:06 < antto> 0,0,0
2021-04-12T20:49:56 < antto> are you trying to trigger senpai?
2021-04-12T20:50:06 < Steffann> antto: i dont know what kind if fancy tools blind people have . Maybe they have like braille for "images" somehow or some other fancy tool that helps a bit.
2021-04-12T20:50:36 < antto> braille should be for reading text
2021-04-12T20:50:45 < Xogium> not really… We could have but usually a display is single line
2021-04-12T20:50:52 < Xogium> 80 chars max
2021-04-12T20:51:21 < Xogium> part of why programming is horrible :D
2021-04-12T20:51:26 < Steffann> At uni we also had this blind guy doing EE. He did quite well, even working with HV and soldering etc.
2021-04-12T20:51:37 < antto> if you had something that "converts an image into braille" then you might paste images as text on irc for everyone else too then
2021-04-12T20:51:44 < Xogium> total blind or legally though ?
2021-04-12T20:51:58 < Steffann> i thought he was totally blind.
2021-04-12T20:52:09 < Steffann> As in not seeing with his eyes. :P
2021-04-12T20:52:26 < Xogium> legally blind means you still have a bit of eyesight left
2021-04-12T20:53:08 < Xogium> can vary, from only trace of light to a loss of peripheral or central vision
2021-04-12T20:53:23 < Xogium> in my case though its total. Not even light
2021-04-12T20:54:28 < antto> i am still unable to smell a damn thing since a few weeks now.. this in itself sux a lot too
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2021-04-12T20:54:41 < Xogium> antto: covid ?
2021-04-12T20:54:45 < antto> no idea
2021-04-12T20:54:50 < Steffann> Still not got yourself tested?
2021-04-12T20:54:59 < antto> nope
2021-04-12T20:55:06 < Xogium> heard it can be a sign of covid
2021-04-12T20:55:20 < Steffann> it is... i recall like 60% of the people have this issue
2021-04-12T20:55:28 < antto> if it is.. will my sense of smell come back.. ever?
2021-04-12T20:55:32 < Steffann> some even for over a year. or maybe permanent
2021-04-12T20:55:41 < antto> crap
2021-04-12T20:55:42 < antto> :/
2021-04-12T20:55:46 < Steffann> haha
2021-04-12T20:55:50 < Steffann> For most people it isnt
2021-04-12T20:56:00 < Steffann> isnt permanent.
2021-04-12T20:56:09 < antto> knowing my luck..
2021-04-12T20:56:19 < Steffann> Eating just to eat. That's the way to go right?
2021-04-12T20:56:33 < antto> hm?
2021-04-12T20:56:57 < antto> i do have taste
2021-04-12T20:57:15 < Steffann> ah ok
2021-04-12T20:57:39 < fenugrec> Arh come on digikong, order placed thursday still not shipped !
2021-04-12T20:58:07 < antto> i wanna bake a cake but.. how am i gonna check if the eggs are "bad" now
2021-04-12T20:58:17 < Steffann> fenugrec try arrow. They are fast nowadays. :P
2021-04-12T20:58:25 < Steffann> put them in water.
2021-04-12T20:58:30 < Steffann> floating eggs are bad.
2021-04-12T20:58:37 < Steffann> or possibly
2021-04-12T20:58:49 < antto> before breaking them?
2021-04-12T20:58:52 < Steffann> yeah
2021-04-12T20:58:53 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T20:59:01 < antto> hm.. didn't know this hack
2021-04-12T20:59:04 < Xogium> if the float they've gone bad
2021-04-12T20:59:12 < Xogium> if they sink they are good
2021-04-12T20:59:14 < zyp> mouser is also being slow, I ordered before the weekend and it's still sitting at «waiting to ship»
2021-04-12T20:59:27 < Xogium> if they are kind of wanting to float but not quite do it you better eat 'em soon
2021-04-12T20:59:34 < Steffann> i wouldnt say they are bad perse, just .. old(er).
2021-04-12T20:59:36 < zyp> oh, wait, it's still early monday there
2021-04-12T20:59:44 < zyp> so it might still ship today
2021-04-12T21:00:03 < antto> i ordered from tme last night, fiddled to get the dumb payment right this morning, it's gotten shipped at 14:00-ish
2021-04-12T21:00:14 < Xogium> mouser are super cool
2021-04-12T21:00:15 < antto> but it was just 1 item
2021-04-12T21:00:23 < Xogium> they've even gotten accessibility right
2021-04-12T21:00:31 < fenugrec> Steffann, are they ? I just hope I won't beat last time I orderd from newark... 3 weeks
2021-04-12T21:00:47 < zyp> I ordered from digikey a few weeks ago, put in an order around midnight, norwegian time, and when I woke up next morning it was already shipped
2021-04-12T21:01:22 < fenugrec> where does DK.EU ship from ?
2021-04-12T21:01:33 < zyp> is there a dk.eu?
2021-04-12T21:01:42 < Steffann> 2 out of 2 were pretty fast the last month fenugrec
2021-04-12T21:01:45 < fenugrec> dunno, I meant for EU customers
2021-04-12T21:01:48 < zyp> everything I've ever ordered from digikey have been shipped from the us
2021-04-12T21:01:56 < Steffann> 2 out of 2 orders. Shipped in 5 packages ofcourse. because arrow.
2021-04-12T21:01:57 < zyp> AFAIK they only have the one warehouse
2021-04-12T21:01:58 < antto> today there were some AC-to-12VDC 26A switching supplies at digikey for 15 euro cents a piece
2021-04-12T21:02:02 < fenugrec> okok, wasn<t sure if they had another warehouse.
2021-04-12T21:02:13 < antto> 520 of them, sold like hot cakes
2021-04-12T21:02:52 < zyp> doesn't really make much of a difference, stuff usually arrives in <48h anyway
2021-04-12T21:02:57 < fenugrec> hahaha yeah the "Arrow experience" with 5 boxes
2021-04-12T21:03:54 < Xogium> yeah I was kind of surprised because the first time I bought from mouser I was expecting custom fees
2021-04-12T21:04:19 < Xogium> my stuff shipped from the US, and got to my place in like 2 or 3 days max, to france
2021-04-12T21:04:25 < Xogium> and I had no custom fees
2021-04-12T21:04:29 < Steffann> Just ordered some random STM32G491s from arrow because its what they had in stock.. and i had no specific requirements. Except for some usb and can
2021-04-12T21:04:33 < antto> Xogium, when you use the default shipping with mouser (fedex, for eu) they deal with the importing
2021-04-12T21:04:40 < fenugrec> DK were they only ones to have the precrimped JST wires I needed though
2021-04-12T21:05:00 < Xogium> ah, that explains. Well that's really really great
2021-04-12T21:05:21 < fenugrec> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/jst-sales-america-inc/ASXASXA22K305/6009471 . Open to suggestions for alt sources, in  50-100 qty
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2021-04-12T21:08:07 < Xogium> Steffann: so, do you have any recommendation of codecs for what I want to do that would be cheaper ?
2021-04-12T21:09:18 < Steffann> im still not sure about your requirements. Internal mic, external mic? I2S? Analog? I2S?
2021-04-12T21:09:51 < antto> i didn't catch the whole picture of this
2021-04-12T21:10:10 < antto> but he was hesitating between doing it all analog or digital
2021-04-12T21:10:19 < t4nk_freenode> fenugrec, 66cts for 1 cable?! that's ... wow ;)
2021-04-12T21:10:47 < Xogium> Steffann: well I was told that using analog was an easy way to ruin audio signal if you don't know what you're doing so I'd stick to i2s, where everything in the chain is already handled. But yeah basically have internal mics/speakers and possibility of connecting headphones and external mic
2021-04-12T21:11:16 < Steffann> Xogium: But the external mic will be i2s as well?
2021-04-12T21:11:48 < zyp> no, hence the codec with i2s
2021-04-12T21:11:53 < fenugrec> t4nk_freenode, yes. But making 50 of these by hand sucks and takes time. 
2021-04-12T21:12:28 < t4nk_freenode> so why not aliexpress some over then? they are cheap enough
2021-04-12T21:13:03 < fenugrec> because I want proper JST crimps
2021-04-12T21:13:03 < zyp> fenugrec, 50 individual leads, or 50 assemblies?
2021-04-12T21:13:08 < fenugrec> 50 leads
2021-04-12T21:13:35 < zyp> is the $25 at digikey too bad then?
2021-04-12T21:14:21 < zyp> I mean, even if you can get it cheaper elsewhere, shipping may quickly eat up the difference
2021-04-12T21:14:37 < fenugrec> no, since I ordered enough for 1 assy for proto, but could use more as spares / test rigs etc
2021-04-12T21:14:39 < Steffann> oh, duh ofcourse zyp. -_-
2021-04-12T21:15:19 < Steffann> i just assumed Xogium implied he wanted to do it all in i2s -_-
2021-04-12T21:16:57 < Steffann> *assumed = thought.
2021-04-12T21:17:07 < Steffann> i said nothing i guess
2021-04-12T21:17:36 < Xogium> ;) that's all fine. I'm also a bit confused with all this
2021-04-12T21:24:09 < Steffann> in that case the ADC could be useful and .. i guess the coded is fine then. assuming stereo@1W (or less)  is enough for your use case.
2021-04-12T21:26:41 < Steffann> *codec
2021-04-12T21:33:27 < Steffann> but better get it zyp approved. He's smarter
2021-04-12T21:34:27 < Steffann> or at least he  acts smarter
2021-04-12T21:35:10 < antto> a dumb guy cannot act smarter for too long, or when put under inspection
2021-04-12T21:35:31 < englishman> avnet has 50 stm32f302c8. but moq is 250.
2021-04-12T21:36:20 < antto> order 250, get 50 now and another 200 maybe later?
2021-04-12T21:41:21 < Steffann> You know you should be looking for esp32, right englishman?
2021-04-12T21:48:28 < Xogium> well this is meant as a low power device so I think the 1w will be okay
2021-04-12T21:49:01 < qyx> 1W a low what?
2021-04-12T21:49:04 < Xogium> like audio player/recorder/document reader for the blind
2021-04-12T21:50:41 < Xogium> qyx: not me who said that :p cirus logic classed it in their low power/portable codecs
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2021-04-12T22:04:02 < zyp> speaking of mouser, just got the shipping confirmation
2021-04-12T22:07:27 < fenugrec> no fair
2021-04-12T22:09:53 < Steffann> shipping notification = we made the label or ... ?
2021-04-12T22:09:57 < Steffann> thats what it means for ARROW.
2021-04-12T22:18:27 < Xogium> heh now that's fun :p watching some video of a guy taking apart his tascam dr-05 recorder
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2021-04-12T22:32:23 < Xogium> LOL go figure, what's in the tascam dr-05 entry level recorder ? Cs42l52
2021-04-12T22:34:07 < Steffann> i dont know how fast youll need it, but you probably should also check for if its actually available, Xogium
2021-04-12T22:35:28 < Steffann> Octopart says: Nope, not really available. Mouser has some, and more available in 52 weeks :)
2021-04-12T22:35:37 < fenugrec> or a source of dr-05 to harvest the IC from
2021-04-12T22:35:44 < Steffann> lol
2021-04-12T22:37:15 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-12T22:37:36 < Xogium> well I only want to make like 5 prototypes or so at first really
2021-04-12T22:37:54 < Xogium> ironically I have one dr-05 that I don't even use anymore XD
2021-04-12T22:38:09 < Xogium> migrated to dr-100 mkIII since
2021-04-12T22:38:58 < Xogium> I'm kinda surprised by how much the tascam has in term of memory and flash
2021-04-12T22:39:13 < Xogium> 128 mb of ram and 16 mb flash
2021-04-12T22:41:56 < fenugrec> you could reflash one with your code instead of building all new hw. doesn't rockbox do most of what you want anyway ? audio playback + rec, some document support
2021-04-12T22:45:43 < Xogium> I don't know heh its blackfin cpu for dsp and the likes
2021-04-12T22:46:18 < Xogium> its also rather closed hw unless you amuse yourself by taking it apart like that guy did
2021-04-12T22:46:22 < aandrew> I did a fair bit of blakfin work. not a fan of DSPs, they're weird
2021-04-12T22:46:55 < Xogium> and I believe blackfin was taken out of linux
2021-04-12T22:47:00 < Xogium> as in out of kernel
2021-04-12T22:48:37 < Xogium> though I don't its the main processor, might just be used for dsp
2021-04-12T22:48:43 < Xogium> *don't think
2021-04-12T22:49:51 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: btw, do you probably know about any non-obsolete small device that's running rockbox and doesn't have background amp hum?
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2021-04-12T22:53:41 < Xogium> but yeah, blackfin does look weird
2021-04-12T22:54:40 < PaulFertser> Xogium: have you considered implementing the required functionality on android?
2021-04-12T22:54:57 < Xogium> PaulFertser: I don't know java
2021-04-12T22:55:24 < Xogium> so yeah I could get someone to code it all but really, what would be the point ?
2021-04-12T22:55:27 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I've heard you can program in Kotlin nowadays which is a much better language. Also, there's NDK and you can use C++.
2021-04-12T22:56:03 < Xogium> but either way, I'd need someone to code for me because I just can't manage to code while reading only the current line
2021-04-12T22:56:07 < PaulFertser> Xogium: plenty of hardware that would be compatible with your code, support for different external mics etc etc. Future-proof.
2021-04-12T22:56:41 < PaulFertser> It's much easier to find somebody to code for Android than for an MCU I think.
2021-04-12T22:56:55 < Xogium> I mean its not a bad idea at all, but then I might as well not be doing that project
2021-04-12T22:57:01 < Xogium> its not a mcu
2021-04-12T22:57:06 < PaulFertser> Also, you can use Qt in about the same way as you use it on PC or somesuch.
2021-04-12T22:57:07 < Xogium> the stm32mp1 is a mpu
2021-04-12T22:57:35 < Xogium> so linux runs just fine on it
2021-04-12T22:58:38 < PaulFertser> I thought you have a good idea that could help many people, so probably choosing a widely available hardware might be more efficient. Just guessing.
2021-04-12T22:59:21 < Xogium> well like I said its not a bad idea, but since that would be programming only I might as well not be in the project at all
2021-04-12T23:00:21 < Xogium> I've been rudely told once by a programmer that I was simply making excuses for myself to not learn programming, but honestly, imagine yourself seeing only a single line of code at a time, would you be able to do it ?
2021-04-12T23:00:47 < PaulFertser> You can probably find some nicer way to implement hardware input devices for android.
2021-04-12T23:01:12 < PaulFertser> Because the touchscreen is a bad joke really.
2021-04-12T23:01:26 < Xogium> if you want to read the few lines above or below you have to move with the arrows and lose your place on the current line. And then you move back up, and by the time you're back on the line you were adding code to, you forgot what you just read
2021-04-12T23:02:30 < PaulFertser> Xogium: not sure why you lose the place, I know in "ed" (the standard text editor) there's a notion of "current line" and you can print any other line without affecting it.
2021-04-12T23:02:54 < Xogium> yeah but honestly ed is just… Weird
2021-04-12T23:03:09 < Xogium> I'm using nano
2021-04-12T23:03:47 < PaulFertser> It made plenty of sense back in the teletype days I guess. And I'd think it still fits the constraint of being able to read just one line at a time nicely.
2021-04-12T23:05:03 < Xogium> yeah, sure but having to type weird character combo
2021-04-12T23:05:13 < Xogium> just to display one particular line
2021-04-12T23:05:25 < Xogium> that kinda feels strange these days
2021-04-12T23:06:23 < PaulFertser> But you just said "I want to read the line before the current" and in "ed" you directly type just that "-1p", your desire expressed in the most straightforward way.
2021-04-12T23:06:59 < Xogium> its still is confusing
2021-04-12T23:23:49 < Steffann> Call me weird but I'm a little fascinated, maybe because I can't really imagine working like that...
2021-04-12T23:24:05 < Steffann> Totally random question where you born blind Xogium ?
2021-04-12T23:24:15 < Steffann> OK not entirely random
2021-04-12T23:27:58 < Xogium> Steffann: yeah, kinda. I was actually rendered blind because of hyperoxia. I was born after only 24 weeks
2021-04-12T23:28:42 < Xogium> they raised the level of oxygen too high in the incubator, and there went my retinas, and a good portion of one side of my brain never fully developed because of a massive blood loss
2021-04-12T23:31:08 < Xogium> so I have one side of my brain that is super small compared to others
2021-04-12T23:32:13 < Xogium> that caused OCD and ASD and boy was it hard to diagnose it with blindness
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2021-04-12T23:54:45 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, for some definition of "no background amp hum", my xduoo x3something is quieter than my ears
2021-04-12T23:55:21 < fenugrec> I think it's the quietest device I own, with good DT770 cans
2021-04-12T23:55:54 < fenugrec> IIRC it's not supported by rockbox in mainline but some russian dudes (of course) have a fork
2021-04-12T23:57:50 < karlp> where do you use such a device?
2021-04-12T23:57:55 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: hm, I also considered https://aliexpress.com/item/32826674025.html but something about it made me too mad. Probably GPL violating? I can't really remember.
2021-04-12T23:58:01 < fenugrec> to... play music ?
2021-04-12T23:58:17 < BrainDamage> I assume they don't have a smartphone
2021-04-12T23:58:19 < karlp> no, like, where...
2021-04-12T23:58:29 < fenugrec> (the xduoo actually runs linux natively, the UI is just their blob)
2021-04-12T23:58:48 < fenugrec> in car hooked to the stereo, or traveling (not much of that these days ofc)
2021-04-12T23:59:08 < PaulFertser> karlp: Ah, yes, indeed, aigo violates GPL, I checked my logs. Is xduoo not doing the same?
2021-04-12T23:59:25 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I have Openmoko gta02
2021-04-12T23:59:34 < BrainDamage> I have earbuds eternally in my ears if I'm no indoor
--- Day changed Tue Apr 13 2021
2021-04-13T00:00:47 < fenugrec> karlp, also my laptop has annoying EM noise with headphones, this works as a usb DAC too.
2021-04-13T00:01:13 < fenugrec> CPU-correlated noise actually. Annoying AF
2021-04-13T00:01:51 < PaulFertser> On my old sansa e200 it's also louder when it's reading from memory :/
2021-04-13T00:01:52 < BrainDamage> one of the weidest things I've had was a sound card whose noise was triggered by mouse movements
2021-04-13T00:01:54 < PaulFertser> Very annoying.
2021-04-13T00:02:25 < BrainDamage> the best part: the mouse was wireless
2021-04-13T00:02:45 < PaulFertser> I tried some Fiio players recently and that would have been so cool if it was running rockbox...
2021-04-13T00:02:50 < BrainDamage> yet other bluetooth devices didn't interfere, just the mouse
2021-04-13T00:03:15 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: so yeah, is xduoo not violating GPL at all? Shipping source for all the kernel drivers?
2021-04-13T00:03:31 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, ah, can't find a source for that, but I wouldn't be surprised
2021-04-13T00:04:53 < fenugrec> but I doubt there are many decent DMPs that also are OSS role models, and not discontinued. Pick 2.
2021-04-13T00:05:56 < BrainDamage> also, tangentially related, does anyone know of a bt streaming gizmo where both the mic and the headphones for the sco profile are external inputs?
2021-04-13T00:06:34 < BrainDamage> I can find mic streaming but only on a2dp, headphone streaming, but the sco is only with builtin mic
2021-04-13T00:06:43 < BrainDamage> but not the combination of the two
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2021-04-13T00:11:01 < karlp> fenugrec: hrm, my front headphone jack on my old computer was like that, but the rear ones worked fine.
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2021-04-13T00:14:59 < fenugrec> karlp, laptops would likly always be worse, and have just 1 jack to choose from : )
2021-04-13T00:16:08 < karlp> aren't laptops meant to be better? none of that mains hum 
2021-04-13T00:16:20 < karlp> pure audiophool battery powered high feeeeedelittttyy
2021-04-13T00:16:23 < fenugrec> meh... more aggressive power management, closer packaging
2021-04-13T00:16:32 < fenugrec> DCDC metropolis
2021-04-13T00:17:00 < karlp> the megahurz are hurtzing my 15khz sound stage....
2021-04-13T00:17:12 < karlp> oh noes.
2021-04-13T00:17:22 < fenugrec> haha true. Nah for true audiophoolness you need carbon-zinc . Or for grass-roots sound, potato+nail cells
2021-04-13T00:17:28 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: so it's not a real rockbox port but a userspace app running on top of their android shit?
2021-04-13T00:17:36 < karlp> if it doesn't have a disgusting manufacturing process dictated riaa curve, it's "wrong"
2021-04-13T00:18:53 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, I don't believe it has any androidness, but could be wrong. I just poked a few minutes in the UBIFS image when I got it 2y ago
2021-04-13T00:20:06 < fenugrec> here's the RB port http://xvtx.ru/rockbox/source.htm\
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2021-04-13T00:29:32 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: https://github.com/wodz/rockbox-wodz/commit/3e4ffd41526e6fef0fbe8b5cffb762b94719ed3d#diff-ef68551ec5cd5890d4cf80a7be87ac0bc93742e08f80dd4c1f2bf1bd3e8823c7
2021-04-13T00:31:58 < fenugrec> right, so it looks like a fairly straightforward port, but you're saying the AK4490 driver is probably not linux mainline, but a blob from xduo ?
2021-04-13T00:33:00 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: I have no idea really, I just know somewhat similar device from aigo has no published sources :(
2021-04-13T00:33:19 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: and that I wouldn't buy new device from a company that violates GPL.
2021-04-13T00:34:15 < fenugrec> noble, but ... "good luck"
2021-04-13T00:36:21 < PaulFertser> So if they do not it would be good news for me, hence I'm asking.
2021-04-13T00:36:41 < fenugrec> I wonder how many people even bothered to ask them directly for sources ?
2021-04-13T00:36:58 < fenugrec> or if they're the typical don't-give-a-shit.cn
2021-04-13T00:38:49 < BrainDamage> imagine the dialogue: "did you publish the sources?" "yes" "where" "on the internet"  "yes, but how can you reach them" "with a hyperlink", etc
2021-04-13T00:39:58 < fenugrec> We make very good device. Firmware update is in click the link for support
2021-04-13T00:42:39 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I had similar dialogue via Intel Premier support recently where I kept asking questions for a month only to get useless/meaningless/wrong/confusing answers, and then the FAE (who was reading it but didn't write a word there) called my boss and told him I was trolling!
2021-04-13T00:47:13 < Steffann> Lolol
2021-04-13T00:47:34 < Steffann> They honestly have no clue who you are PaulFertser 
2021-04-13T00:48:47 < PaulFertser> I do not think it would make any difference if they knew. Also, I was writing using someone else's account.
2021-04-13T00:50:10 < PaulFertser> Yes, it's even more funny because FAE actually called boss of my boss (so CEO himself) as I was using my boss's account.
2021-04-13T00:51:38 < BrainDamage> it's almost midnight, the wind is howling outside and it's storming badly and aliexpress just notified me my package has been delivered, talk about dedicated postal workers!
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2021-04-13T01:46:54 < kakium69> hello night
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2021-04-13T03:56:26 < jadew> wow, mouser shipped my order the same day
2021-04-13T03:56:58 < jadew> they're still dragging their feet with the previous one (delayed some components for a month, then they added 3 more weeks)
2021-04-13T03:57:14 < jadew> components they had in stock when I ordered
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2021-04-13T04:22:36 < ColdKeyboard> Did anyone have an issue with STM32 where when you use HAL_I2C_Slave_Transmit, first byte is always 0xFF and then whatever you had in TX buffer?
2021-04-13T04:23:02 < ColdKeyboard> So if I set to transmit 0x01 0x02 0x03, on the receiving side it would be 0xFF 0x01 0x02 0x03 :\
2021-04-13T04:24:01 < ColdKeyboard> If I understand correctly, I can't do this without clock streching?
2021-04-13T04:24:05 < ColdKeyboard> At least not with HAL
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2021-04-13T07:04:46 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: maybe you are calling it too late
2021-04-13T07:06:19 < jpa-> i2c communication is hard on the slaves, that's why they haven't renamed them to peripherals
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2021-04-13T12:19:52 < Steffann_> PaulFertser: it would make a difference ,  the would know you don't troll. Not ever. ;)
2021-04-13T12:19:58 < Steffann_> They*
2021-04-13T12:27:46 < PaulFertser> Steffann_: I do troll sometimes, but in this particular case it was looking as if they were trolling me.
2021-04-13T12:28:40 < PaulFertser> The boss said they're arseholes but that particular FAE is our friend and has helped us many times to get good things from Intel (including some rare CPUs) so...
2021-04-13T12:38:00 < PaulFertser> And I just wanted a straight answer for a straight question...
2021-04-13T12:40:57 < karlp> well, there's the problem :)
2021-04-13T12:42:47 < PaulFertser> I didn't expect such an attitude from Intel. From shady chinese companies, yes, from Intel, no.
2021-04-13T13:26:58 < jadew> maybe the guy answering was stuck on a way of understanding your question and couldn't shake it off, no matter how many times you rephrased it
2021-04-13T13:27:12 < jadew> so to him, it might have looked like actual trolling
2021-04-13T13:44:39 < PaulFertser> jadew: I think I made myself pretty clear. And some of the replies had English grammar so broken that they were incomprehensible.
2021-04-13T13:45:06 < jadew> yeah, not saying it was a problem on your side
2021-04-13T13:45:57 < PaulFertser> jadew: I got an impression they just really had no clue and instead of properly and fully figuring it out were talking nonsense just to make an impression they reply something.
2021-04-13T13:46:56 < jadew> look at the bright side, at least they had the courtesy of replying :P
2021-04-13T13:47:11 < jadew> with an answer!
2021-04-13T13:47:12 < PaulFertser> Until I was forced to close the ticket.
2021-04-13T13:53:01 < jadew> has anyone else noticed how music video tits are the best tits?
2021-04-13T13:53:07 < zyp> no
2021-04-13T13:53:24 < jadew> I think that's how they transform listeners into fans
2021-04-13T13:53:38 < jadew> even if you don't realize it, there's a part of your brain going "tits! tits! tits!"
2021-04-13T13:53:48 < jadew> and before you know it you think "hmm... this is a good song!"
2021-04-13T13:53:57 < zyp> sorry to hear that
2021-04-13T13:54:17 < jadew> pay attention to that next time
2021-04-13T13:54:36 < jadew> there's a lot of accent put on them
2021-04-13T13:54:42 < ventyl> there are no tits in music videos I let youtube play me
2021-04-13T13:54:52 < ventyl> am I looking wrong videos?
2021-04-13T13:55:16 < jadew> it only works if you're straight
2021-04-13T13:55:52 < ventyl> that fits. unless you want to tell me something I might not know yet
2021-04-13T13:56:12 < jadew> I know what you mean, there are music videos that don't employ this tactic, because it's non-commercial/haven't figured it out yet
2021-04-13T13:57:57 < jadew> so next time you watch a music video that has a chick dancing, pay attention to: 1) how she moves her upper body and 2) what she does with her hands.
2021-04-13T13:58:22 < jadew> the gestures made with the hands will either frame the tits, or draw into them
2021-04-13T13:58:27 < jadew> *draw you
2021-04-13T14:00:29 < jadew> I wonder if women are drawn to breasts at least in a small degree
2021-04-13T14:01:38 < jadew> maybe not in that way, because they probably perceive it as assets of the competition
2021-04-13T14:02:17 < jadew> might create envy and admiration (would like to be like that)
2021-04-13T14:02:22 < jadew> I need to research this
2021-04-13T14:07:21 < jadew> can't find any papers on it
2021-04-13T14:07:59 < jadew> I found one that says men's oppresive beliefes correlated with their preference in breast size, so... don't be an oppressor, enjoy them all
2021-04-13T14:10:05 < ventyl> oppresive belief
2021-04-13T14:14:27 < karlp> so muchmusic jade'smissing out on...
2021-04-13T14:16:48 < jadew> probably true
2021-04-13T14:17:32 < BrainDamage> if you don't watch commercial music videos, the video is more of a companion story to the music, not an ad platform
2021-04-13T14:18:03 < qyx> 95% of music I liste doesn't have any video
2021-04-13T14:18:19 < qyx> if the cover art doesn't count
2021-04-13T14:19:09 < BrainDamage> true, most music doesn't even have videos
2021-04-13T14:19:31 < jadew> I enjoy the videos too
2021-04-13T14:19:41 < BrainDamage> videos are usually only produced for singles/killer application entries in a album
2021-04-13T14:19:47 < jadew> especially on the expensive ones
2021-04-13T14:20:19 < jadew> they do hire really talented people for the videos and they're a form of art in their own
2021-04-13T14:20:50 < jadew> some which is very subtle and powerful
2021-04-13T14:22:44 < jadew> I just watch for the tits tho
2021-04-13T14:23:44 < karlp> here's one for you then jadew: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8b4xYbEugo
2021-04-13T14:24:12 < karlp> I heard that first without video, and went to youtube to find a shareable link for friends, but it's right up your alley
2021-04-13T14:24:59 < karlp> [sexual breathing]
2021-04-13T14:25:07 < jadew> lol
2021-04-13T14:26:11 < jadew> see, media guys know what to focus on
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2021-04-13T14:27:25 < karlp> heh, I hadn't watched this in years...
2021-04-13T14:28:26 < jadew> such a weird video :)
2021-04-13T14:28:34 < jadew> memorable tho
2021-04-13T14:31:21 < karlp> error code 65.  "failed"
2021-04-13T14:31:41 < karlp> thanks for that. so glad you have 0x86 worth of error codes, and that's the best you could come up with...
2021-04-13T14:32:31 < jadew> what do the other ones say?
2021-04-13T14:32:41 < jadew> take it by elimination :)
2021-04-13T14:33:38 < karlp> what other ones? 65 is what it returned to me.
2021-04-13T14:33:51 < karlp> fortunately, I'm pretty sure I know what it's trying to say :)
2021-04-13T14:36:20 < jadew> I mean in the error code list, I assume you looked it up and it said "failed" next to it
2021-04-13T14:37:15 < ventyl> what. the. fuck.
2021-04-13T14:37:46 < jadew> ventyl?
2021-04-13T14:37:51 < jadew> you watched karlp's video?
2021-04-13T14:37:54 < ventyl> yeah
2021-04-13T14:37:55 < karlp> jadew: yes. I looked it up and it said "failed"
2021-04-13T14:38:14 < jadew> karlp, right, so the joke was that you can eliminate everything else in that list
2021-04-13T14:38:24 < karlp> I guess?
2021-04-13T14:38:51 < ventyl> it could still be 0x80000065
2021-04-13T14:39:17 < karlp> no.... and how would that be better?
2021-04-13T14:39:44 < ventyl> at least one guy in microsoft would like it better like that
2021-04-13T14:41:52 < ventyl> and two more at IBM
2021-04-13T14:44:47 < ventyl> i really don't like how is Corte-M MPU designed
2021-04-13T14:45:15 < ventyl> i can understand why it is like that, but still don't like it
2021-04-13T14:47:32 < karlp> well, you cna join the rest of the world in simly ignoring it too then :)
2021-04-13T14:50:13 < ventyl> nope.
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2021-04-13T14:55:59 < jadew> they made the chip: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9460389/Pentagon-scientists-invent-microchip-senses-COVID-19-body-symptoms.html
2021-04-13T14:57:10 < karlp> ventyl: oh right, auto people don't care, just hammer on things to sya they'
2021-04-13T14:57:13 < karlp> re doing it "right"?
2021-04-13T14:57:19  * karlp chants misra
2021-04-13T14:57:33 < ventyl> karlp: auto people don't know how to MPU
2021-04-13T14:57:48 < ventyl> if you toss MPU into automotive project, you will break it quite badly
2021-04-13T14:58:48 < ventyl> mainly because vast majority of more simple ECUs are basically just two or three C files and one state machine produced by Excel spreadsheat containing 2MB of Visual Basic script, which together pretend to be automotive ECU firmware
2021-04-13T14:59:16 < karlp> fucking st stack doesn't actually give you control of the advertising data.
2021-04-13T14:59:45 < karlp> dipshits.
2021-04-13T14:59:54 < karlp> makes things variable lenght, but doesn't allow them to be removed.
2021-04-13T15:04:15 < BrainDamage> jadew: I hope it'll improve my 5G reception
2021-04-13T15:04:22 < jadew> haha
2021-04-13T15:04:54 < jadew> what's interesting is that they claim they have a filter that can be attached to dialysis machines to filter out the virus
2021-04-13T15:05:19 < jadew> I don't know if it's actually novel, but that seems impressive to me
2021-04-13T15:05:25 < jadew> what other viruses can they do that with?
2021-04-13T15:08:10 < Steffann_> AnnaKournikova virus
2021-04-13T15:17:51  * karlp goes to lunch, fuck st.
2021-04-13T15:19:13 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut-fJCc0zS4
2021-04-13T15:49:55 < Steffann_> Good morning kakium69 
2021-04-13T15:52:13 < kakium69> morgon
2021-04-13T16:00:07 < jadew> do you guys still have curfews?
2021-04-13T16:00:22 < zyp> never had
2021-04-13T16:00:33 < jadew> in here it's 10 pm during the week and 8 or 6? during the weekend
2021-04-13T16:01:07 < jadew> I'm sure that at 6pm all the stores have to be closed (in the weekend)
2021-04-13T16:02:01 < zyp> I went and bought eggs at 22:30 last saturday
2021-04-13T16:02:16 < jadew> nice
2021-04-13T16:02:25 < jadew> I think the curfew is a bad idea anyway
2021-04-13T16:02:39 < jadew> people are now crowding in that interval
2021-04-13T16:03:36 < jadew> went out about two days ago and the streets were full
2021-04-13T16:03:53 < jadew> not one free bench in the park either
2021-04-13T16:04:32 < zyp> true
2021-04-13T16:04:48 < zyp> stores here are encouraging people to use all the opening hours
2021-04-13T16:05:07 < zyp> «if you can, go at a less crowded time of the day»
2021-04-13T16:05:38 < jadew> that's what I would have expected too
2021-04-13T16:06:23 < zyp> there's posters like this everywhere: https://brynsenter.no/TilbudNyheter/2020/SCEI0030_smittevern_november_SoMe_1200x1200px_02.jpg
2021-04-13T16:08:12 < jadew> nice
2021-04-13T16:08:14 < englishman> Steffann_: have you ever used ebay GPIB-USB clones
2021-04-13T16:08:22 < englishman> they are 1/10 the price of the same shit from NI
2021-04-13T16:08:46 < jadew> englishman, I've read they're not as good (they reset weirdly, they get stuck, etc)
2021-04-13T16:08:47 < fenugrec> last I heard the agilent gipbusb clones were usually disappointing if not unusable
2021-04-13T16:09:23 < englishman> :<
2021-04-13T16:09:44 < jadew> get a GPIB card
2021-04-13T16:09:48 < jadew> they're cheaper
2021-04-13T16:10:21 < englishman> they arent tho
2021-04-13T16:10:32 < englishman> same price
2021-04-13T16:10:40 < jadew> I think I paid like 100 EUR for mine
2021-04-13T16:10:44 < englishman> old ass PCI ones are cheap
2021-04-13T16:10:51 < englishman> for a good reason
2021-04-13T16:11:14 < jadew> I think I looked for PCIe ones recently and they weren't much more expensive
2021-04-13T16:11:22 < jadew> let me check
2021-04-13T16:11:55 < englishman> yeah they are about half price
2021-04-13T16:11:57 < jadew> ok, they're more expensive
2021-04-13T16:12:08 < englishman> more expensive than pci but a little less than half of a new one
2021-04-13T16:12:14 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-13T16:15:03 < fenugrec> "someone" should throw together a pcie board with an fpga running https://github.com/fmhess/fmh_gpib_core 
2021-04-13T16:15:20 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, need a new project ? heh
2021-04-13T16:16:22 < jadew> it's copyrighted
2021-04-13T16:16:37 < jadew> and it has no license, so you can't use it
2021-04-13T16:16:43 < jadew> but GPIB is not that difficult to implement
2021-04-13T16:16:48 < englishman> tbh gpib should never be used, idk why we aren't using usb/ethernet in this case but shrug
2021-04-13T16:16:49 < jadew> I did it with an AVR
2021-04-13T16:17:33 < jadew> englishman, does all the involved equipment have ethernet/usb?
2021-04-13T16:18:30 < jadew> I have ethernet on less than half of my stuff
2021-04-13T16:18:40 < englishman> i think only the 33120a and 220/6220 do not
2021-04-13T16:18:43 < Steffann_> Have I ever used gbip englishman ?
2021-04-13T16:19:55 < englishman> i thought you were a labview expert
2021-04-13T16:20:30 < karlp> huh, cute, ordered two different usb-eth+3 DS ports, hoping to get different chipsets,
2021-04-13T16:20:40 < karlp> got one r8152, as expectd and labelled, and the other one is "corechips"
2021-04-13T16:23:19 < karlp> and it's cdc-ecm, instead of custom
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2021-04-13T16:27:08 < Steffann_> SCPI over ethernet is the way, englishman 
2021-04-13T16:27:28 < Steffann_> And my crapview experience is rather limited
2021-04-13T16:27:53 < Steffann_> And that was enough to hate NI software 
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2021-04-13T16:28:41 < fenugrec> you don't like connecting color-coded meaningless hieroglyphs ?
2021-04-13T16:30:11 < Steffann_> I love it fenugrec 
2021-04-13T16:30:41 < karlp> try cube monitor :)
2021-04-13T16:30:58 < Steffann_> I also love installing NI services like VISA tools that always run in the background and mess up the windows schedular tick rate etc.
2021-04-13T16:31:37 < Steffann_> Because let's request a higher frequency in a background service because God knows why
2021-04-13T16:31:48 < karlp> pretty nice demo in the webinar though
2021-04-13T16:31:49 < t4nk_freenode> I just like to say: NIIIiiiiiii!
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2021-04-13T16:35:00 < fenugrec> ah yes, good old timeBeginPeriod(1), best way to improve timings on win at the expense of everything else
2021-04-13T16:36:41 < ventyl> with spi_clock_polarity_1() I should see clock at H after calling spi_enable() if clocks and GPIO is all set up correctly, right?
2021-04-13T16:38:11 < karlp> maybe? this is why I hate things like 1 and 0.
2021-04-13T16:38:21 < karlp> and shoudl the phase or the polarity be be first or the second bit
2021-04-13T16:39:36 < ventyl> description states, that clock should idle at high
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2021-04-13T17:01:19 < qyx>  This branch is 200 commits ahead, 14819 commits behind STMicroelectronics:v2020.10-stm32mp. 
2021-04-13T17:01:25 < qyx> theres some serious development going on
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2021-04-13T17:18:13 < jpa-> qyx: or they just merged a new kernel version?
2021-04-13T17:32:09 < fenugrec> ah. DK order was stalled because they were missing some info; nice of them to not notify me ever
2021-04-13T17:39:30 < karlp> aight, fuck using st aci_ vendor extensions.
2021-04-13T17:39:46 < karlp> just use hci_ bt sig commands instead.  now I can have actual control of the advertising packets :)
2021-04-13T17:50:11 < qyx> jpa-: yeah but 14000.. not a single one with "Initial commit, add contents of the vendor provided ZIP file"
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2021-04-13T17:51:30 < jpa-> yep :)
2021-04-13T17:56:30 < karlp> nice, our vendor id includes a \t: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/HXOat
2021-04-13T17:59:45 < jpa-> should make aligning your messages a bit easier!
2021-04-13T18:04:58 < karlp> hah
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2021-04-13T18:44:31 < karlp> host bt sw is shit.
2021-04-13T18:44:49 < karlp> I suspect gnome/network manager doesn't like me having a python app opening the hci interface directly....
2021-04-13T18:46:44 < ventyl> that SW stack always was shit
2021-04-13T18:47:38 < karlp> which one?
2021-04-13T18:48:30 < karlp> the phone software shows everythign progressing normally, but linux host reading it is garbage fire.
2021-04-13T18:49:53 < ventyl> linux, to much extent. and windows was always total defunct garbage when I encountered it a few times
2021-04-13T18:50:14 < karlp> bit dissapointing how crap it is honestly.
2021-04-13T18:50:17 < ventyl> mac os x mostly worked, but it sometimes required unexpected reboot
2021-04-13T18:50:29 < ventyl> like once a day, if used extensively
2021-04-13T18:51:07 < ventyl> suprisingly even ericsson's own phones weren't super stable with intensive BT use
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2021-04-13T18:55:38 < karlp> but I mean, headphones work.
2021-04-13T18:55:44 < karlp> I guess it' sjust the only part of that it's tested much
2021-04-13T18:56:25 < ventyl> moooostly
2021-04-13T18:56:59 < ventyl> there are shitty headphones which cause playback tearing and eventual haltstop on certain phones
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2021-04-13T19:15:48 < Laurenceb> til android supports all consumer control buttons via resistor ladders connected to TRRS jack
2021-04-13T19:16:14 < qyx> karlp: do you know if anyone actually tested SPI on H7?
2021-04-13T19:20:54 < jpa-> SPI in general or SPI with some specific driver?
2021-04-13T19:21:25 < ventyl> opencm3
2021-04-13T19:22:44 < qyx> it looks like SPI on H7 has a brand new register set
2021-04-13T19:23:12 < qyx> probably a superset but all addresses are shifted
2021-04-13T19:23:34 < ventyl> what. a. surprise.
2021-04-13T19:24:44 < Laurenceb> anyone know how much the current consumption can be reduced on raspberry pi 4?
2021-04-13T19:26:22 < jpa-> qyx: chibios has a completely separate driver version SPIv3 for H7
2021-04-13T19:28:31 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/zT9/plain  relevant parts of SPIv2 vs. SPIv3 diff
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2021-04-13T19:30:03 < jpa-> CFG1 and CFG2 are new, DR is now split to TXDR and RXDR, 32-bit words are now supported
2021-04-13T19:32:54 < qyx> is Giovanni allright
2021-04-13T19:34:33 < aandrew> SPI has versions?
2021-04-13T19:36:25 < jpa-> qyx: has seemed pretty good so far - sometimes feels a bit blunt & overworked, but that is pretty normal for open source maintainers
2021-04-13T19:36:37 < jpa-> chibios is very high quality IMO
2021-04-13T19:37:21 < jpa-> aandrew: sure; most STM32 peripherals do
2021-04-13T19:38:09 < aandrew> jpa-: are you talking about *driver* versions or protocol versions?
2021-04-13T19:38:32 < aandrew> sure, peripheral refinements/enhancements/etc. need driver updates
2021-04-13T19:39:27 < jpa-> hardware versions
2021-04-13T19:39:37 < jpa-> protocol is of course separate and not versioned like that
2021-04-13T19:40:27 < aandrew> ok, SPIv3 made it sound like some variant of the protocol :-)
2021-04-13T19:41:25 < jpa-> i did say "driver version SPIv3" though :)
2021-04-13T19:44:20 < aandrew> then I have a reading comprehension issue. :-)
2021-04-13T19:45:14 < jpa-> we'll have to wait for AANDREWv2, the errata sheet says just "no workaround available"
2021-04-13T19:45:24 < fenugrec> so you havent' heard of I3C then, and I3S for audio
2021-04-13T19:45:28 < aandrew> indeed
2021-04-13T19:45:33 < aandrew> I have heard of I3C actually
2021-04-13T19:45:51 < aandrew> makes me laugh a little to think that it's actually IIIC not I2Cv3
2021-04-13T19:45:54 < fenugrec> well I'll be
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2021-04-13T19:51:46 < aandrew> don't you mean III'll be?
2021-04-13T19:52:03 < fenugrec> no, I'lll be
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2021-04-13T21:09:01 < aandrew> https://lounge.mikkel.cc/uploads/8cc9a1f487007f3f/image.png
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2021-04-13T21:43:51 < Steffann_> Welcome tct
2021-04-13T21:43:55 < Steffann_> By tct
2021-04-13T21:43:57 < Steffann_> *bye
2021-04-13T21:45:10 < antto> such Client, very Quit
2021-04-13T21:45:34 < Steffann_> hows the covid antto?
2021-04-13T21:46:12 < antto> no idea
2021-04-13T21:46:27 < antto> i still can't smell sh*t
2021-04-13T21:46:42 < Steffann_> Why you didnt get yourself tested?
2021-04-13T21:47:01 < Steffann_> or is self-quarantine like you probably always do fine enough?
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2021-04-13T21:47:18 < antto> bruh i'm going to wurk every day
2021-04-13T21:47:24 < Steffann_> tct: \o/
2021-04-13T21:47:26 < Steffann_> lol antto
2021-04-13T21:47:44 < ventyl> sharing is caring
2021-04-13T21:48:08 < antto> what kind of test?
2021-04-13T21:48:15 < Steffann_> zhe covid test
2021-04-13T21:48:26 < Steffann_> or HIV whatever you prefer
2021-04-13T21:48:56 < Steffann_> or does that cost big munny in the .bg?
2021-04-13T21:48:59 < antto> the whole "testing" here is sooooo smelling like it's all being faked
2021-04-13T21:49:08 < tct> Steffann_, sorry, gotta run - ttyl
2021-04-13T21:49:16 < antto> on the other hand i am afraid not to get tossed into a hospital
2021-04-13T21:49:26 < Steffann_> lol thats what you hav been doing the last 10 minutes tct :P
2021-04-13T21:49:39 < Steffann_> or more like 30 min
2021-04-13T21:51:08 < antto> in hospitals here, they give u antibiotics and then u kinda die
2021-04-13T21:52:35 < Steffann_> lol i like the .bg already
2021-04-13T21:52:39 < antto> the situation here is, we got these so called clinical paths that are funded by the budget, each desease gets a given amount of moniez.. and hospitals basically have profit to take you in and put u onto a bed
2021-04-13T21:53:42 < antto> so they put tons of people in with "covid" diagnose, despite their condition not needing it
2021-04-13T21:54:21 < antto> if they don't do it, they wouldn't get moniez
2021-04-13T21:55:22 < antto> planned operations are suspended, tons of beds are converted for treating covid, tons of doctors too, doctors who aren't specialized in the required matter
2021-04-13T21:55:28 < antto> other operations are suspended
2021-04-13T21:55:51 < antto> and now if they don't have people on those beds with covid diagnosis - no $moniez
2021-04-13T21:55:59 < antto> so they better do, and guess what.. they do
2021-04-13T21:58:17 < Steffann_> And perhaps you just bring more people in so $$$ :D
2021-04-13T21:58:58 < antto> some church guy got quaranteened after his PCR test woz positive, he sat at home and waited, a few months later, he's doing a funeral, and some guy comes to him wanting to speak.. "not now, i'm doing a funeral" but he insisted.. he said "i'm the one who did your PCR test, i'm sorry i had to make it positive, i had to make a certain count"
2021-04-13T21:59:35 < antto> no autopsies also
2021-04-13T22:00:22 < antto> intensive care has gotten worse than before.. when they throw you in there, there's no link to the outside world, no status, no info, nothing
2021-04-13T22:00:43 < antto> my mother was in intensive care in 2019 for a different thing..
2021-04-13T22:00:58 < antto> for a week
2021-04-13T22:01:18 < antto> basically, if you get to there, ur ded
2021-04-13T22:01:23 < antto> and now it's worse
2021-04-13T22:02:08 < antto> anyway, sorry for this bullsh*t
2021-04-13T22:19:13 < Steffann_> yw
2021-04-13T22:19:14 < Steffann_> .
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2021-04-13T23:21:39 < karlp> qyx: not a clue.
2021-04-13T23:21:56 < karlp> qyx: I don't have any h7, every now and again I try and trust people
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2021-04-14T00:54:38 < bitmask> someone make me a pcb, just a switcher, an AND gate and 3 SSRs
2021-04-14T00:54:57 < bitmask> easy peezy
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2021-04-14T01:05:55 < Steffann_> Done
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2021-04-14T01:19:51 < bitmask> ty
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2021-04-14T01:40:42 < jadew> what AWGs do you guys have?
2021-04-14T01:40:56 < jadew> I need one that does 200 MHz+
2021-04-14T01:41:18 < jadew> square wave
2021-04-14T01:59:50 < bitmask> holy shit, I spent $5.18 on a tiny piece of plastic the size of my fingernail, I thought it was for a bag of them
2021-04-14T01:59:52 < bitmask> it was only for one
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2021-04-14T02:03:28 < t4nk_freenode> lol
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2021-04-14T02:04:25 < jadew> haha
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2021-04-14T02:14:52 < karlp> what was it?
2021-04-14T02:18:23 < aandrew> karlp: aren't you paying attention? A tiny iece of plastic the size of is fingernail.
2021-04-14T02:19:02 < bitmask> hah, its a quick connect clip for my RO water filter system
2021-04-14T02:19:06 < bitmask> https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-locking-clip-1-4
2021-04-14T02:19:46 < bitmask> I think I left the tab open as a reference and added it to my cart accidentally cause its somewhat obvious that its for one item
2021-04-14T02:21:55 < bitmask> is it possible to use too much ptfe tape as long as you can screw it on?
2021-04-14T02:22:15 < bitmask> ive never really done plumbing stuff before
2021-04-14T02:22:47 < fenugrec> if you put so much that it doesn't look like threads anymore, that's too much
2021-04-14T02:23:29 < fenugrec> ofc that's only for taper threads; putting ptfe tape on compression fittings is a crime
2021-04-14T02:23:37 < bitmask> k
2021-04-14T02:24:33 < bitmask> yea this is for pipe threads
2021-04-14T02:25:06 < fenugrec> watching a few YT vids should give a "feel" for how many turns is ok
2021-04-14T02:25:50 < bitmask> will it leak with too much?
2021-04-14T02:26:11 < fenugrec> it might ? depends on pressure I guess
2021-04-14T02:26:47 < fenugrec> I avoid npt fittings when possible
2021-04-14T02:28:03 < bitmask> i have a few npt connections and the rest john guest QF, if i have any problems i'll switch to compressing fittings but this should be fine
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2021-04-14T02:36:30 < bitmask> got my first dose of the pfizer vaccine today
2021-04-14T02:48:40 < specing> with the rate vaccinations are going in my country, I'll get vaccinated somewhere around 2022
2021-04-14T02:48:48 < specing> so, lucky you
2021-04-14T02:48:54 < specing> you can travel now
2021-04-14T02:49:03 < bitmask> what country is that
2021-04-14T02:51:25 < bitmask> france
2021-04-14T02:51:26 < bitmask> ?
2021-04-14T02:52:17 < kakium69> shit is far from over
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2021-04-14T02:58:36 < bitmask> alright, should I work on this pcb or the peltier/water chiller enclosure
2021-04-14T02:58:44 < bitmask> decisions decisions
2021-04-14T03:00:34 < bitmask> yea pcb
2021-04-14T03:04:49 < bitmask> finally, my Humira is going to be shipped out tomorrow, waiting on medication to feel better blows
2021-04-14T03:12:47 < bitmask> its probably not very efficient but theres no real problem only using half an amp with a buck that can handle 2.5A right?
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2021-04-14T04:24:51 < fenugrec> Ah, it's .nl that are hoarding jst stuff: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/b03b-xask-1-lf-sn/jst-manufacturing "ships from NL"
2021-04-14T04:27:38 < bitmask> should I get a 500mA or 1A SSR or a 300mA load
2021-04-14T04:30:16 < bitmask> oh theres a 700mA for the same price as the 500mA, ill get that
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2021-04-14T05:30:49 < fenugrec> TIL there are two standard thicknesses for TO220 tabs, "single/dual-gauge". 0.5 vs 1.27mm
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2021-04-14T05:55:45 < turnip420> Does anyone know an unlicensed radio protocol (ISM or otherwise) for mega long range? Assuming you have not power requirements?
2021-04-14T05:56:15 < turnip420> Assuming you have no power requirements. That wasn't a question.
2021-04-14T05:56:46 < turnip420> Looking into LoRa or directional wifi
2021-04-14T05:57:21 < turnip420> I figured there should be something better, like 120Mhz/1W? something? Non ham radio shit
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2021-04-14T06:05:01 < fenugrec> esp32 has a "long range" 2.4ghz mode but I wouldnt call that "mega long range". 
2021-04-14T06:06:00 < fenugrec> but you're on the right track, look at your country ISM bands / power limits
2021-04-14T06:06:26 < fenugrec> there's IIRC a few competing lora equivalents/alternatives
2021-04-14T06:06:57 < fenugrec> datarate will also dictate what you can d
2021-04-14T06:22:04 < turnip420> Thanks
2021-04-14T06:22:18 < turnip420> I'm talking 100km+
2021-04-14T06:22:38 < turnip420> Directional big antenna's allowed
2021-04-14T06:22:53 < turnip420> Can be like 100W or whatever
2021-04-14T06:23:35 < turnip420> Not relying on the sunspots or whatever those ham fuckers use to bounce their shit all over the world
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2021-04-14T07:06:11 < jpa-> machinehum/turnip420: maximum power for unlicensed bands is 1 watt, or 4 watt equivalent if using directional antennas
2021-04-14T07:07:36 < jpa-> also directional antennas only work for line-of-sight, and you need 200 meter high towers at each end to get line-of-sight at 100 km
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2021-04-14T13:01:47 < karlp> yeah, .us is so busy vaccinating themselves and refusing to ship any out, theyr'e forgetting that they want to travel to safe places too...
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2021-04-14T13:11:44 < zyp> doesn't a majority of the us population never travel outside the us?
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2021-04-14T13:13:03 < karlp> probably,
2021-04-14T13:13:29 < karlp> but wife's getting big upswiing in travel requests from the us now, and we' relike, well, you might be able to come, but we might be closed still.
2021-04-14T13:13:47 < karlp> the us/british, "no vaccines for anyone else, only for us!" is a bit tiresome.
2021-04-14T13:19:16 < ventyl> well, that's something I would expect to happen. as global nature of stuff is only present, because it is financially beneficial for some entities. once it turns out that preferring local affairs gives someone an advantage, they won't give a fuck about global status
2021-04-14T13:29:58 < karlp> well, we've got pretty strong precedence for isolationism leading to decline...
2021-04-14T13:30:17 < ventyl> zyp: they probably want, like "this year, we're going to Paris". then they found that... ah, it is in Texas. so we're heading to Texas!
2021-04-14T13:30:39 < karlp> so when the rest of the world syas, "help please?" and russia and china and eu say, "sure, we can export vaccines!" then it's not going to be doing much for maintaining any sort of position of us power in the future.
2021-04-14T13:30:46 < karlp> uk was already down the drain of course...
2021-04-14T13:30:55 < ventyl> :))
2021-04-14T13:30:57 < ventyl> sure
2021-04-14T13:31:05 < karlp> the icelandic phrase is pissing in your shoes to warm your feet.
2021-04-14T13:31:53 < zyp> the norwegian equivalent is pissing your pants to keep warm
2021-04-14T13:32:50 < ventyl> well, i have just registered with tax bureau, so I can register for tax
2021-04-14T13:32:53 < ventyl> yo dawg!
2021-04-14T13:33:15 < ventyl> (because my first registration fox tax is not usable, albeit completely valid and finished)
2021-04-14T13:33:23 < ventyl> s/fox/for/
2021-04-14T13:35:17 < zyp> register for tax?
2021-04-14T13:37:09 < ventyl> you wouldn't understand, as it is absurd on it's own even for people who do live here
2021-04-14T13:37:19 < englishman> that's a great quote karl
2021-04-14T13:37:55 < englishman> pretty normal to have a number related to sales tax collections
2021-04-14T13:38:11 < englishman> idk if it's the same for EU vat
2021-04-14T13:38:33 < ventyl> nope, these are two independent IDs
2021-04-14T13:51:55 < BrainDamage> here you have to register for an id if you're a personal business so that vat can be excluded/applied specifically
2021-04-14T14:12:26 < ventyl> here you have to register for two of them
2021-04-14T14:12:55 < zyp> here you get an ID number assigned at birth which among other things are used to identify you for the tax authority
2021-04-14T14:13:02 < ventyl> one is mandatory, another is voluntary. but you can't go outside country borders in the remaining of EU, if you don't have the latter regardless of if you have or have not to pay VAT
2021-04-14T14:13:29 < zyp> and then companies also get a company ID number when they are registered
2021-04-14T14:14:03 < ventyl> and then there's fourth ID. mostly completely meaningless, but you have to have it and you have to state it everywhere
2021-04-14T14:14:51 < ventyl> so now, I'll have three IDs, of out which I have to state two of them. and while one of them is VAT ID and I am not gonna pay VAT, I have also state, that I got my VAT ID for purposes different than paying VAT :>
2021-04-14T14:15:08 < zyp> you as an individual or you as a company?
2021-04-14T14:15:15 < ventyl> individual
2021-04-14T14:15:39 < BrainDamage> here you have an id assigned at birth for the individual too
2021-04-14T14:15:39 < zyp> how does that even worK?
2021-04-14T14:16:16 < ventyl> i have bussiness permit, which allows me to perform bussiness in my name without being company
2021-04-14T14:16:38 < BrainDamage> what country is that, if I may ask?
2021-04-14T14:16:41 < ventyl> which actually has worse conditions than if I was a company, but it's faster to be settlet down
2021-04-14T14:16:44 < zyp> strange
2021-04-14T14:16:57 < ventyl> BrainDamage: slovakia
2021-04-14T14:17:18 < qyx> I would call it simply "self-employment"
2021-04-14T14:17:25 < zyp> I've got a «one person company», i.e. a sole proprietorship
2021-04-14T14:17:49 < qyx> it is possible too
2021-04-14T14:17:50 < ventyl> we also have this option available for couple years
2021-04-14T14:18:23 < qyx> but you can get assigned a valid company ID, local VAT ID and EU VAT ID as a person
2021-04-14T14:18:37 < ventyl> reasons behind this "self-employment" hassle are historic and roots are burried deeply in our communist history
2021-04-14T14:18:53 < zyp> legally my company is the same entity as me as an individual, but it has an actual company ID and is VAT registered
2021-04-14T14:18:56 < ventyl> where you cannot own a company, but you could perform small personal bussiness
2021-04-14T14:19:37 < BrainDamage> zyp: we have the same thing here
2021-04-14T14:19:46 < ventyl> qyx: I wouldn't call DIC "VAT ID"
2021-04-14T14:19:48 < BrainDamage> a business is a legal entity on its own
2021-04-14T14:19:52 < ventyl> it is simply a tax ID
2021-04-14T14:20:23 < ventyl> BrainDamage: well, my personal bussiness is legal entity on it's own. the thing is, that is just is not a company
2021-04-14T14:20:39 < Xogium> I can understand why people want to be self-employed :p at least I'm getting rather tired of the catch 22 that is finding a job these days
2021-04-14T14:20:40 < BrainDamage> even if physically it's you
2021-04-14T14:20:58 < Xogium> aka, they want to hire only people with experience so how the heck are you supposed to gain some
2021-04-14T14:21:10 < ventyl> yes. it has it's own address, name, identification number & stuff
2021-04-14T14:21:16 < zyp> by legal engity, I mean liability wise
2021-04-14T14:21:24 < BrainDamage> so you have your personal tax id and the company tax id
2021-04-14T14:21:26 < BrainDamage> being self employed is not that land of dreams it may seem
2021-04-14T14:21:54 < zyp> I am personally responsible for any liabilities my company has
2021-04-14T14:22:07 < specing> it is here, 4% income tax up to 100000 eur/year
2021-04-14T14:22:18 < BrainDamage> unless you have also estabilished your presence, you'll have a real hard time convincing people of your worth
2021-04-14T14:22:20 < ventyl> BrainDamage: that depends on use case, but mostly yes. because, in parallel to my personal bussiness I may still be employed as a person
2021-04-14T14:23:00 < specing> BrainDamage: some people here get "employed" as a contractor, they work only for one company but as a contractor so the taxes are much lower
2021-04-14T14:23:21 < BrainDamage> specing: same applies here
2021-04-14T14:23:23 < ventyl> aaand while march was the tax month, I will simply defer question of "which tax ID to use" for quite some months
2021-04-14T14:23:45 < BrainDamage> my sister is a contractor for loacker, but it's effectively an employee
2021-04-14T14:24:18 < ventyl> it happens here too. but it is highly discouraged by officials as circumventing law governing employment
2021-04-14T14:24:18 < BrainDamage> here we distinguish the company for the liabilities type, "company of people" and "company of capitals"
2021-04-14T14:25:08 < zyp> I just did a couple months of contracting before the company I contracted with offered to hire me on as a normal employee
2021-04-14T14:25:29 < BrainDamage> in the firstt one the persons are liable, in the 2nd one the company itself must devolve a social capital to handle liabilities
2021-04-14T14:25:57 < zyp> sounds similar to here
2021-04-14T14:26:35 < ventyl> same here
2021-04-14T14:27:42 < zyp> I mean, I would summarize it as you can either own part of a company (in the form of shares or whatever), or you can _be_ part of a company
2021-04-14T14:28:06 < specing> BrainDamage: was she ever liable for anything?
2021-04-14T14:28:15 < BrainDamage> specing: yes
2021-04-14T14:28:28 < specing> What happened?
2021-04-14T14:28:32 < zyp> the sole proprietorship is the simplest form of the latter, but you can also have multiple liable proprietors
2021-04-14T14:29:28 < zyp> but it quickly gets easiest to just make a stock based company
2021-04-14T14:29:51 < ventyl> zyp: here, one additional level exists below "company of people"
2021-04-14T14:30:09 < ventyl> which could be summarized as "mortal human who is entitled to issue invoices"
2021-04-14T14:30:10 < BrainDamage> specing: nothing major, just a tax screwup .... that later turned out to be correct and she got reimbursed
2021-04-14T14:30:11 < englishman> it is easy, but quite expensive, even in the last year of my biz i paid about $3k to the bean counters, so i closed that company
2021-04-14T14:30:38 < ventyl> ...and pay taxes
2021-04-14T14:30:58 < zyp> sounds like a sole proprietorship
2021-04-14T14:31:18 < ventyl> well, you can also have that one, if you wish
2021-04-14T14:31:24 < specing> BrainDamage: ah. I meant more of something bad happening in the company and her being held financially liable
2021-04-14T14:31:28 < ventyl> depending on income, one or other will be better
2021-04-14T14:31:34 < zyp> true
2021-04-14T14:31:48 < specing> BrainDamage: that's my biggest worry if I ever were to get "employed" like this
2021-04-14T14:31:57 < ventyl> latter scales better, former is easier to maintain
2021-04-14T14:31:58 < BrainDamage> no, nothing of the sort to my knowledge, she's pretty throrough
2021-04-14T14:32:10 < specing> BrainDamage: which I'd like to do, since I don't believe in pensions anyway
2021-04-14T14:32:13 < ventyl> and has generally lower costs to maintain
2021-04-14T14:32:20 < zyp> if I were doing full time contracting as a long term thing, I'd start a normal (stock based) company for it
2021-04-14T14:32:47 < specing> zyp: higher taxes
2021-04-14T14:33:03 < BrainDamage> here there's multiple forms of capital companies, not just just stock based
2021-04-14T14:33:06 < zyp> not necessarily
2021-04-14T14:33:08 < englishman> the tax deferral aspect of incorporating can also be very important when growing
2021-04-14T14:33:21 < zyp> yes
2021-04-14T14:33:38 < ventyl> that's too far future
2021-04-14T14:33:46 < zyp> and there's some tax breaks you're not entitled to as a proprietor, but as an employee
2021-04-14T14:33:50 < ventyl> I just got pissed by my daily job, so I quit :>
2021-04-14T14:34:17 < ventyl> s/pissed/\0 off/
2021-04-14T14:34:28 < englishman> plus government subsidies, like here R&D and manufacturing expenses are heavily subsidized, including salary
2021-04-14T14:34:36 < zyp> last year I made 2/3 of my income as an employee and 1/3 as a contractor
2021-04-14T14:34:55 < zyp> had I earned the same amount but all as a contractor I would have paid a lot more in tax
2021-04-14T14:36:09 < zyp> and then there's also benefits you get as an employee but not as a contractor
2021-04-14T14:37:09 < specing> interesting
2021-04-14T14:37:52 < jpa-> i would benefit a couple hundred euros per year by having a company instead of sole proprietorship, but the paperwork would be so much larger that it doesn't feel worth it
2021-04-14T14:38:07 < jpa-> especially if i would pay someone to do it
2021-04-14T14:38:22 < zyp> so the most reasonable thing to do for full time contracting appears to be starting a company and employing yourself, then pay yourself a reasonable enough salary to make use of the tax breaks and stuff, and then pay the rest as dividends to the owner
2021-04-14T14:38:31 < ventyl> here the main advantage of contractor vs. employee is flexibility
2021-04-14T14:38:56 < jpa-> zyp: and perhaps leave the part that you don't immediately need in the company, to be used in other years?
2021-04-14T14:39:00 < ventyl> employment is driven by it's own law and is fairly strictly specified what you can/can't/have/have not to do
2021-04-14T14:39:06 < zyp> jpa-, yes
2021-04-14T14:39:12 < zyp> jpa-, and as far as I can tell the amount of paperwork would be roughly the same here
2021-04-14T14:39:31 < jpa-> here though any surplus left in company is taxed 20% immediately
2021-04-14T14:39:48 < zyp> yes, something like that here too
2021-04-14T14:40:26 < jpa-> here sole proprietorship can have single-entry bookkeeping and don't even have to make formal year-end accounting, just fill out the tax form
2021-04-14T14:41:12 < zyp> yeah, until last year all I had to fill out on my tax report was total income and total expenses
2021-04-14T14:41:55 < jpa-> though the tax service is planning on creating a government provided financial application for small companies; maybe that will make it more reasonable if it ever happens
2021-04-14T14:42:03 < zyp> but last year my company earned more than 50k NOK, which means I need to fill in more detailed numbers, I just did that last week
2021-04-14T14:42:14 < ventyl> our tax form has some 14 or 15 pages even for mortal human being
2021-04-14T14:42:20 < ventyl> and it only can get longer
2021-04-14T14:42:40 < zyp> I've been using some online accounting thing for years and it generates all the numbers I need to submit, so that's easy enough
2021-04-14T14:43:37 < jpa-> i use an accounting thing that is tied together with my business bank account; it is nice in that i can just take a photo of a receipt & link it to payment in mobile app immediately after i pay something with credit card
2021-04-14T14:43:50 < jpa-> it is not so nice in that it doesn't really seem to understand how finnish tax system works
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2021-04-14T14:47:45 < zyp> hmm
2021-04-14T14:49:18 < zyp> marginal tax for my company income (sole proprietorship) is something like 46.6%, total tax on dividends is 46.7%, so that's roughly the same
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2021-04-14T15:42:25 < englishman> with covid they were giving away a bunch of cash too
2021-04-14T15:42:47 < englishman> such as $60k interest free loans with $20k forgivable if paid within a years
2021-04-14T15:42:54 < englishman> hell yeah.
2021-04-14T15:43:05 < englishman> *within x years
2021-04-14T15:44:38 < ventyl> this kind of stuff was funny here
2021-04-14T15:45:04 < ventyl> because, there were some promisses of subsidies if all aspects of bussinesses are properly registered
2021-04-14T15:45:27 < ventyl> then after many bussinesses "fixed" their registration, subsidies were declined as a whole
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2021-04-14T17:42:31 < bitmask> is "internal operating frequency" for an isolation transformer the frequency it was designed to run at?
2021-04-14T17:49:51 < bitmask> im not sure what kind of transformer im looking for.  I want 24V AC 60Hz with a turns ratio of 2:1
2021-04-14T17:51:21 -!- specing [~specing@unaffiliated/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-04-14T18:07:06 < ventyl> my cat's operating system got corrupted. he came to me asking me to let him out. on our way to the doors, he spotted food bowl, so he stopped  there and started stuffing himself.
2021-04-14T18:07:14 < ventyl> this happened like three times in row
2021-04-14T18:07:34 < ventyl> i had to literally kick him out
2021-04-14T18:13:58 < englishman> related https://www.thebeaverton.com/2021/04/ontario-school-opening-closing-policy-determined-by-a-cat-who-wants-in-or-out/
2021-04-14T18:18:02 < bitmask> finally, Humira will be delivered on Friday
2021-04-14T18:27:53 < Streaker> Who is she?
2021-04-14T18:32:00 < kakium69> a humidity machine?
2021-04-14T18:32:10 < kakium69> moite
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2021-04-14T18:39:14 < bitmask> heh
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2021-04-14T18:39:31 < bitmask> syringes filled with antibodies
2021-04-14T18:41:42 < bitmask> so where do I find a 50-60hz 2:1 transformer for 1.5-2W?
2021-04-14T18:43:29 -!- ou5x is now known as oz4ga
2021-04-14T18:45:13 < jpa-> any electronics distributor
2021-04-14T18:45:26 < bitmask> everything I look at is for hundreds of khz
2021-04-14T18:45:30 < bitmask> i dont get it
2021-04-14T18:45:35 < bitmask> :/
2021-04-14T18:45:43 < jpa-> then you are looking at wrong category, look into mains transformers
2021-04-14T18:45:48 < jpa-> even if you don't need the mains insulation
2021-04-14T18:45:59 < bitmask> hmm i see
2021-04-14T18:46:21 < jpa-> SMPS transformers use >100kHz so that they can be smaller
2021-04-14T18:46:46 < bitmask> right
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2021-04-14T19:06:29 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2WS-G5j23w finnish summer
2021-04-14T19:06:40 < kakium69> enable subtitles
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2021-04-14T19:21:49 < bitmask> so if I'm using the 161E56 to go from 24V to about 11.7V do I use the 1.2 which is the Size (VA) column and get 102 mA? Or am I limited to 20mA?
2021-04-14T19:21:50 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/XjFNV2u.png
2021-04-14T19:22:09 < fluiD> I seem to have triggered a bug in the STM32cubeide device configuration tool.
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2021-04-14T19:27:01 < bitmask> maybe I should just ask my original question.  What would you use to drop 24V AC to 12V DC? a transformer like I'm looking at here or a full switcher setup? I only need like 50 mA
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2021-04-14T19:31:21 < fluiD> probably just rectify it.
2021-04-14T19:32:05 < fluiD> a linear would consume a watt.
2021-04-14T19:32:55 < fluiD> I wonder if you can just rectify one side of the AC.
2021-04-14T19:33:16 < karlp> half wave rectification is a thing, yes.
2021-04-14T19:33:36 < karlp> not sure the price savings are worth it these days...
2021-04-14T19:34:00 < bitmask> hmm
2021-04-14T19:34:04 < bitmask> what to do
2021-04-14T19:36:49 < bitmask> screw it, im just gonna use a switcher
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2021-04-14T19:43:21 < ventyl> New Shepard suborbital jump test webcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domwsgorRW0&feature=youtu.be
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2021-04-14T19:45:42 < bitmask> oh good TPS54040 is fairly efficient at the load I need
2021-04-14T19:53:54 < karlp> https://www.ti.com/product/TPS560430 is likely even simpler
2021-04-14T19:54:38 < qyx> lmr36006 all the way
2021-04-14T19:54:43 < karlp> is 24V rms or peak?
2021-04-14T19:54:57 < Xogium> you guys ever did lifepo4 bms ?
2021-04-14T19:55:06 < Xogium> as in battery management
2021-04-14T19:55:40 < karlp> as long as you like that package qyx ;)
2021-04-14T19:55:44 < Xogium> or, are there complete solution for small battery like 18650 available ?
2021-04-14T19:55:55 < qyx> absolutely
2021-04-14T19:56:07 < Xogium> I don't want to do aliexpress here since I want to get pcb manufacture eventually
2021-04-14T19:56:20 < Xogium> beside aliexpress just palin sucks for disabled people
2021-04-14T19:56:38 < Xogium> *plain sucks even
2021-04-14T19:58:00 < Xogium> I've been told that making my own circuit for this with all the different chips like battery charger/protection ic is too hard a task and I'm definitely agreeing
2021-04-14T19:58:42 < Xogium> I'd just need battery management for 1 and 2 cells
2021-04-14T19:59:33 < bitmask> simpleswitchers are very inefficient and at such a low load its gonna be inefficient already
2021-04-14T19:59:38 < bitmask> i dont mind a few extra components
2021-04-14T20:00:51 < ventyl> Xogium: my ex-company does. I wouldn't be around device which uses it
2021-04-14T20:01:10 < Xogium> ventyl: why's that ? Is it that bad ?
2021-04-14T20:01:43 < ventyl> I often used to ask testers: "how much is 12V?"
2021-04-14T20:01:56 < ventyl> and their reply usually was "between 9 and 16V depending on conditions"
2021-04-14T20:02:04 < Xogium> I honestly just want to use 2 18650 lifepo4 batteries to power this project of mine :p how hard could it be ? Damn
2021-04-14T20:02:49 < Xogium> right now I just use a lifepo4wered rpi hat
2021-04-14T20:03:28 < Xogium> but its one cell only, so I had to use 26650 which is really too big size
2021-04-14T20:03:38 < Xogium> for physical I mean
2021-04-14T20:04:17 < Xogium> so been trying to do 2x 18650 and having basically no idea of how to go bout it because I never expected it to be that bloody hard
2021-04-14T20:07:07 < Xogium> ventyl: so their bms was crap or ? :p
2021-04-14T20:07:18 < ventyl> mostly
2021-04-14T20:07:27 < Xogium> damn
2021-04-14T20:07:35 < ventyl> it probably still is
2021-04-14T20:08:09 < Xogium> but how could be that hard ? I'm only a beginner, so I don't know a lot
2021-04-14T20:08:29 < ventyl> i manages high currents and design/architecture is performed by idiots
2021-04-14T20:08:36 < Xogium> I just want to power my audio player prototype board and dev board using lifepo4
2021-04-14T20:08:40 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-14T20:09:14 < Xogium> mine would be not so high current but yeah
2021-04-14T20:09:22 < ventyl> so they make decisions, almost everyone at least slightly competent could see are stupid
2021-04-14T20:09:41 < ventyl> but they don't see it, so they have to implement it and only during testing they find out, that there is some systematic problem
2021-04-14T20:09:53 < Xogium> I think I can figure why you said, ex-company lol
2021-04-14T20:09:56 < ventyl> like voltage drops changing a lot due to varying current draw
2021-04-14T20:10:08 < ventyl> I didn't work on that project
2021-04-14T20:10:08 < Xogium> gah
2021-04-14T20:10:14 < Xogium> scary
2021-04-14T20:10:21 < ventyl> but it was probably one of the worst in the whole company
2021-04-14T20:10:50 < Xogium> I guess the bsm soled by aliexpress would be that bad too :p
2021-04-14T20:11:16 < ventyl> i've seen one, which was combined with 5V regulator for USB output
2021-04-14T20:11:40 < ventyl> so you could charge your battery using USB and then power some 5V device out of it
2021-04-14T20:12:02 < Xogium> I did find a lot of stuff on mouser but I believe they are just chips and you have to know what you're really doing to make it all fit together. Like charger for lifepo4 1-4 cells from TI, but it has only minimal protection like overvoltage
2021-04-14T20:12:23 < ventyl> everything worked fine until you put in battery, charged it and tried to use the device. regulator put 6+V onto 5V rail and device was fried
2021-04-14T20:12:27 < Xogium> so you need more IC for protection
2021-04-14T20:12:37 < Xogium> oh, boy
2021-04-14T20:12:56 < Xogium> sounds good on paper as usual, but in practice, it all went to hell
2021-04-14T20:13:05 < ventyl> well, stay away of whatever AD device
2021-04-14T20:13:13 < ventyl> especially from the newer models
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2021-04-14T20:13:22 < Xogium> AD being analog devices ?
2021-04-14T20:13:25 < ventyl> they seem all to be crap
2021-04-14T20:13:26 < ventyl> yeah
2021-04-14T20:13:50 < Xogium> what about TI and microchip tech ? Any ideas on those ?
2021-04-14T20:13:52 < ventyl> a lot of our (their) problems had a root cause in AD devices being a crapware
2021-04-14T20:14:12 < ventyl> datashits full of fuck and devices not performing according to them
2021-04-14T20:14:17 < Xogium> definitely a good thing to know… Mouser sells a lot of AD
2021-04-14T20:14:43 < ventyl> and direct question to AD usually resulted in: we don't know or if you find out, let us know
2021-04-14T20:14:55 < Xogium> and yep they did sound good. I think I did see the charger you mentioned, even, the usb one
2021-04-14T20:15:34 < Xogium> ltc4098 or something like that
2021-04-14T20:16:02 < ventyl> unfortunately I don't remember chip name
2021-04-14T20:16:31 < ventyl> it is even possible, that AD crap isn't more crappy than the rest of marked
2021-04-14T20:16:35 < ventyl> market*
2021-04-14T20:16:53 < Xogium> I saw some chips from monolithic power system
2021-04-14T20:17:20 < Xogium> but I don't know what they are worth, also mouser sells them onl with 2500 min quantity
2021-04-14T20:17:50 < Xogium> I just want a few of them for a first few proto boards like maybe 5 to 10 max
2021-04-14T20:18:02 < ventyl> i think, that with 1-4 cells, pretty much anything will work if you check for most obvious gotchas
2021-04-14T20:18:25 < Xogium> such as ?
2021-04-14T20:19:01 < Xogium> I'm no expert in electrical/battery stuff so far. I'm just planning on noting down components I might use, and have a pcb designer do the rest
2021-04-14T20:19:18 < fenugrec> karlp, is that TPS* part another one of those with a "typical circuit" that uses 6$ inductor
2021-04-14T20:19:22 < ventyl> right output voltage under all operation conditions and in case of series connection also presence of ballancing, if advertised
2021-04-14T20:19:33 < Xogium> but if I can avoid the most obvious problem without submitting to the pcb designer first, all the better
2021-04-14T20:20:31 < ventyl> heh, nor I am. I've just seen some fails along the way
2021-04-14T20:21:31 < Xogium> but heh, the dev board I got can currently manage up to 12 hours of running linux idle, without any kind of power optimisation
2021-04-14T20:21:54 < Xogium> with the big 26650, which my understanding is equivalent to 2x 18650
2021-04-14T20:24:23 < Xogium> but the first proto will not have that man peripherals around, like no ethernet, so that's gonna save more power
2021-04-14T20:24:41 < Xogium> *many
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2021-04-14T20:34:01 < Laurenceb25> freaking lunix mint
2021-04-14T20:34:16  * Laurenceb25 has the "shutdown session dialogue box" error
2021-04-14T20:34:27 < Laurenceb25> but this time restarting cinnamon wont shift it
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2021-04-14T20:36:47 < karlp> bitmask: what do you care about efficiency for 50mA?
2021-04-14T20:36:59 < bitmask> fair enough
2021-04-14T20:39:08 < ventyl> karlp: it may be worth of ensuring, if he is not burning another 150mA in excess while getting those 50mA at peak load
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2021-04-14T20:58:25 < fenugrec> hahaah they photoshopped the TI logo on the IC here. Very subtle https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/teMAAOSwSw5dv7-H/s-l1600.jpg
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2021-04-14T21:06:26 < Xogium> damn that's not nice
2021-04-14T21:06:56 < Steffann_> Yes it is Xogium 
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2021-04-14T21:07:51 < Xogium> Steffann_: how so ?
2021-04-14T21:08:11 < Xogium> maybe I misunderstand but sounded to me like they put up a fake TI logo on something that's not TI
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2021-04-14T21:09:06 < fenugrec> correct. They just pasted random LT / TI logos on the ICs with minimum effort
2021-04-14T21:10:10 < Xogium> so how do you know it's fake ?
2021-04-14T21:11:08 < fenugrec> the logos don't line up perfectly, are skewed/rotated, and are not what is ever printed on this type of IC
2021-04-14T21:11:11 < jadew> fenugrec, can't expect more effort than that - the photoshopper takes only a tiny fraction of the 1
2021-04-14T21:11:17 < jadew> fenugrec, can't expect more effort than that - the photoshopper takes only a tiny fraction of the 1c margin they have
2021-04-14T21:11:24 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-14T21:11:29 < Xogium> that makes sense
2021-04-14T21:12:04 < fenugrec> jadew, true, this is actually a lot of photoshop for the money
2021-04-14T21:12:47 < Xogium> I saw some fake st stuff to at some point but don't remember what it was
2021-04-14T21:13:18 < Xogium> website advertised as st, it had st logo and stuff, but in the end it was not st at all when I connected to my computer
2021-04-14T21:15:33 < jadew> whenever I buy chips from china I verify the die
2021-04-14T21:15:58 < jadew> sometimes they mix fakes with good ones
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2021-04-14T21:19:31 < Xogium> mouser is nice for that, it generally avoids a lot of crap, at least in my experience
2021-04-14T21:19:40 < Xogium> though I guess it depends what you're buying
2021-04-14T21:19:56 < jadew> obviously, mouser is an official distributor for the shit they sell
2021-04-14T21:20:35 < jadew> but if you buy unobtanium stuff directly from china, you're in for a lot of fun
2021-04-14T21:20:53 < Xogium> yeah I want to really avoid doing this
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2021-04-14T21:44:11 < Steffann_> No buy stm32f103 for cheap and than realize they are fake. Join ##stm32 and go rage about it. Thats how it works, Xogium
2021-04-14T21:46:17 < Xogium> hehe I'd rather not buy tem cheap and directly from st or an official distributor
2021-04-14T21:46:26 < Xogium> at least I'm sure its no fake and good quality
2021-04-14T21:46:47 < Xogium> rather not buy them cheap, I mean
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2021-04-14T21:52:28 < englishman> Xogium: i wouldnt make a BMS, id get a prebuilt battery pack from a battery pack company in china
2021-04-14T21:52:51 < englishman> you'll get something consistent and cheap, and if you need certs they will be able to get them for you
2021-04-14T21:53:10 < Xogium> can you recommend one ?
2021-04-14T21:53:23 < Xogium> because the only recommndation I ever have given was aliexpress :p
2021-04-14T21:53:29 < englishman> what kind of volume
2021-04-14T21:54:02 < Xogium> not a lot. Like even a single one for initial testing would be fine. 5 to 10 max
2021-04-14T21:54:24 < englishman> alibaba, contact 3-4 companies with what you are looking for
2021-04-14T21:54:29 < englishman> and order samples
2021-04-14T21:54:52 < englishman> if they have something off the shelf, bully for you, if not, get something custom
2021-04-14T21:55:23 < englishman> idk too much about lifepo but that's typically what i do for lipo packs and cylindrical
2021-04-14T21:55:51 < Xogium> if I could get even a single proto board done at this point I'd be glad
2021-04-14T21:56:10 < Xogium> but the idea would be that the manufacturer would grab the parts
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2021-04-14T22:26:13 < Laurenceb25> nice octave has broken
2021-04-14T22:26:15 < Laurenceb25> 38327 pts/1    Sl+    0:00 /usr/libexec/octave/5.2.0/exec/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/octave-svgconvert - pdf 96.10 /usr/share/octave/5.2.0/fonts/FreeSans.otf 1 /tmp/oct-aVmlLr
2021-04-14T22:26:23 < Laurenceb25> ^never completes
2021-04-14T22:26:25 < Laurenceb25> very weird
2021-04-14T22:30:27 < Steffann_> time to upgrade to 6.2.0 Laurenceb25
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2021-04-14T23:32:05 < qyx> karlp: huh have your volcanos multiplied?
2021-04-14T23:32:14 < qyx> I can see a couple of them now
2021-04-14T23:42:03 < englishman> if you can see them, karl can definitely see them.
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2021-04-14T23:50:00 < Steffann_> I wouldnt be so sure. Would karlp still be alive when qyx can see them?
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--- Day changed Thu Apr 15 2021
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2021-04-15T00:39:36 < bitmask> jesus, I don't know if its from the vaccine but I feel fucking terrible
2021-04-15T00:53:40 < Steffann_> What did you get bitmask 
2021-04-15T01:00:04 < karlp> there's like 4-5 cones, plus a few fissures now, yeah
2021-04-15T01:00:23 < karlp> three thenext morning after I was last up there.
2021-04-15T01:01:20 < karlp> jadew: what's your method for "erifying the die" ?
2021-04-15T01:03:00 < karlp> he's in the us, so probably pfizer?
2021-04-15T01:03:33 < bitmask> the pfizer one
2021-04-15T01:03:59 < bitmask> it could be unrelated but im just really nauseous 
2021-04-15T01:04:00 < karlp> biontech I should say...
2021-04-15T01:04:42 < bitmask> its settling down actually
2021-04-15T01:04:54 < bitmask> my body is just falling apart
2021-04-15T01:04:56 < bitmask> :)
2021-04-15T01:08:32  * antto gets the duct-tape
2021-04-15T01:10:40 < bitmask> :)
2021-04-15T01:13:53 < Steffann_> It's one of the side effects I recall,... nausea and feeling unwell and shit
2021-04-15T01:14:06 < Steffann_> Poor bitmask 
2021-04-15T01:14:15 < antto> je suis side-effects
2021-04-15T01:14:36 < Steffann_> No, you have symptoms 
2021-04-15T01:14:45 < Steffann_> Of the real deal
2021-04-15T01:14:59 < bitmask> blah
2021-04-15T01:15:27 < bitmask> why hasn't muh other drugs been shipped yet
2021-04-15T01:15:35 < bitmask> i need me fix locke
2021-04-15T01:15:37 < antto> if that's true, then there's no point in doing the vaccine for me
2021-04-15T01:17:06 < Steffann_> Meth? cocaine? bitmask ?
2021-04-15T01:17:15 < bitmask> all of the above
2021-04-15T01:17:22 < bitmask> nah, Humira for Crohn's
2021-04-15T01:17:41 < Steffann_> Ah
2021-04-15T01:18:03 < bitmask> luckily it has to stay cold so they have to overnight it, they said it will be here Friday so maybe they have to wait until tomorrow morning
2021-04-15T01:18:45 < bitmask> it can take up to 2 months for full effect though which blows
2021-04-15T01:19:26 < bitmask> probably won't feel anything for the first 2-3 weeks
2021-04-15T01:21:34 < bitmask> hmm, i forget how to add my damn library to my new altium project :P
2021-04-15T01:22:40 < karlp> huh, aliexpress is allowing my credit card again
2021-04-15T01:39:52 < zyp> nice
2021-04-15T02:10:25 < rajkosto> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/292727720876703744/832029670261784586/brdcabA.mp4
2021-04-15T02:12:42 < englishman> is that yours
2021-04-15T02:12:45 < englishman> nice job
2021-04-15T02:12:54 < englishman> tho that china silk sure is awful
2021-04-15T02:13:31 < rajkosto> no, i wouldnt bother pasting huge components like 0805 lol
2021-04-15T02:13:35 < rajkosto> easier to hand solder
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2021-04-15T07:37:02 < upgrdman> altium pros, how do i edit a rule for a pad when designing a footprint?
2021-04-15T07:37:08 < upgrdman> i dont see it in the properties pane :/
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2021-04-15T09:06:58 < zyp> edit a rule in what sense?
2021-04-15T09:13:43 < upgrdman> zyp, like make a pad ignore a clearance constraint
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2021-04-15T09:14:48 < upgrdman> i added a rule from "PCB Filter tab > create rule" but fucked it up... any way to list rules associated with a footprint, so i can remove it?
2021-04-15T09:15:46 < Xogium> I wish designing pcb wasn't so visual :p
2021-04-15T09:16:17 < zyp> upgrdman, in the pcblib? didn't know you could have rules in the library
2021-04-15T09:16:27 < Xogium> though pcbdl did sound kind of fun, but seems a bit limited still
2021-04-15T09:16:27 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-15T09:17:22 < upgrdman> zyp, like for some pads you might want a rule on a LDO tab pad so it direct-connect's to a flood fill instead of thermaling, etc
2021-04-15T09:17:50 < upgrdman> i wrote that weird, but ua
2021-04-15T09:17:51 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-15T09:18:08 < zyp> I thought you'd just tag those pads with some attribute that you'll later match with a rule query
2021-04-15T09:18:20 < upgrdman> and i have an SMD pad that needs to be on the edge of the PCB, so i dont want any clearance constraint warning about it collided with a track on GKO
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2021-04-15T09:28:54 < upgrdman> for stm32f7, is usb dfu always enabled or does firmware need to allow it?
2021-04-15T09:31:35 < upgrdman> oh, ya, boot0 = 3.3v to allow
2021-04-15T09:32:18 < jpa-> one can also configure it with option bytes
2021-04-15T09:32:33 < jpa-> to either disable or to boot custom bootloader
2021-04-15T09:34:50 < upgrdman> does boot0 have internal pull down at reset?
2021-04-15T09:35:33 < jpa-> AFAIK no
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2021-04-15T09:37:02 < upgrdman> hmm
2021-04-15T09:37:53 < upgrdman> so with boot0 = 3.3v it boots from "system memory" ... any idea if that will timeout and boot from main flash eventually?
2021-04-15T09:38:06 < upgrdman> prolly not :/
2021-04-15T09:38:22 < jpa-> no timeout, AN2606 will tell everything about the system bootloader
2021-04-15T09:38:28 < upgrdman> thx
2021-04-15T09:40:39 < upgrdman> skimming that now
2021-04-15T09:41:00 < upgrdman> if boot0 is tied to GND, can firmware force restarting into system bootloader?
2021-04-15T09:41:20 < jpa-> yeah, you can usually just jump into it
2021-04-15T09:41:29 < upgrdman> cool
2021-04-15T09:41:33 < upgrdman> crisis averted :)
2021-04-15T09:41:46 < jpa-> on some devices with complex clock & etc. config it is easier to do a system reset and jump from beginning of your reset handler, to get the hardware into the expected state
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2021-04-15T09:56:46 < upgrdman> are flash option bytes reset on power loss?
2021-04-15T09:56:57 < upgrdman> doesnt say in the RM like for other registers :(
2021-04-15T09:57:31 < upgrdman> looks like maybe i could BFB2=1, and trigger a reset, to enter system bootloader
2021-04-15T09:58:11 < upgrdman> but hope it wouldn't forever enter bootloader, otherwise i need a way to clear BFB2
2021-04-15T10:00:36 < upgrdman> shit, im being dumb, nm
2021-04-15T10:02:33 < jpa-> flash option bytes are stored in flash
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2021-04-15T10:02:43 < upgrdman> ya, lol, sorry...
2021-04-15T10:03:42 < jpa-> AN2606 has a description on how to activate bootloader by jump, it is in section 4.1 Bootloader activation
2021-04-15T10:06:34 < upgrdman> ya
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2021-04-15T12:28:57 < karlp> (I highly recommend reset and jump frrom early, trying to catch every irq you left enabled, in what state is a trainwreck)
2021-04-15T12:34:45 < zyp> agreed
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2021-04-15T13:10:41 < mouseghost> hm
2021-04-15T13:10:41 < mouseghost> ok
2021-04-15T13:10:44 < mouseghost> so we've seen ada
2021-04-15T13:10:48 < mouseghost> but anyone doing arm with rust?
2021-04-15T13:13:51 < karlp> many?
2021-04-15T13:13:56 < karlp> not many here that I'm aware of though
2021-04-15T13:14:03 < karlp> they like sticking to their own community
2021-04-15T13:17:56 < mouseghost> karlp, i mean, in general; ie its not literally one or two peeps 
2021-04-15T13:18:05 < mouseghost> though i guess, glancing that the ffi, its not THAT hard
2021-04-15T13:19:04 < jpa-> i've seen a lot of people trying it out, but i haven't seen much good come out of it yet
2021-04-15T13:19:20 < jpa-> more than with ada though
2021-04-15T13:19:27 < mouseghost> haha
2021-04-15T13:20:32 < jpa-> like   gpioc.bsrr.write(|w| w.bs13().set_bit());    just looks crazy to me
2021-04-15T13:21:09 < jpa-> why would one need a lambda for writing a bit
2021-04-15T13:21:50 < mouseghost> wait what the fuck is this
2021-04-15T13:24:37 < karlp> where did you get that grossness from?
2021-04-15T13:25:17 < jpa-> AFAIK that is the standard way how rust embedded works, but that particular example is from  https://jonathanklimt.de/electrics/programming/rust-STM32F103-blink/
2021-04-15T13:26:24 < ventyl> if you can't make your language straightforward on embedded, hosted and in cloud, don't even try
2021-04-15T13:27:15 < jpa-> apparently the reason is to permit better read modify write and names for bits while modifying them at once
2021-04-15T13:27:19 < karlp> yeah, wow, they really look like they made a mess of it since I last looked, https://jonathanklimt.de/electronics/programming/embedded-rust/rust-on-stm32-2/ updated is even worse
2021-04-15T13:28:20 < jpa-> but seems like plain-c      GPIOC->BSRR = (1 << 13) | (1 << 14);   seems to accomplish the same and much clearer than  gpioc.bsrr.write(|w| w.bs13().set_bit(); w.bs14().set_bit(); )
2021-04-15T13:28:57 < karlp> led.set_high().ok(); makes even less sense...
2021-04-15T13:29:02 < mouseghost> why the fuck does it need unwrap??
2021-04-15T13:29:11 < mouseghost> if it doesnt exist then you are fucked anyways 
2021-04-15T13:29:19 < jpa-> karlp: apparently because the GPIO pin trait is used also for read-only pins, and then it would fail
2021-04-15T13:29:25 < ventyl> that's when your paradigm is too verbose and then you start bending it to be actually useful
2021-04-15T13:29:29 < ventyl> please.write.this()
2021-04-15T13:29:34 < karlp> that's also trying to wrap st hal too...
2021-04-15T13:29:46 < jpa-> but don't worry, they are considering renaming all   .set_high()   etc. functions to   try_set_high()    so that one can write more code
2021-04-15T13:30:55 < mouseghost> pub fn ok(self) -> Option<T>
2021-04-15T13:30:55 < mouseghost> Converts from Result<T, E> to Option<T>.
2021-04-15T13:30:58 < mouseghost> W H YYYY
2021-04-15T13:35:10 < karlp> ok, so far, bleak: sometimes works. bleson: mostly works: bluepy: almost never works.
2021-04-15T13:35:35 < karlp> what do we infer? python is better than dbus, and dbus is better than raw C.
2021-04-15T13:36:06 < karlp> (bleson talks native HCI from python, bleak talks to bluez dbus, and bluepy uses a C "helper" to talk HCI instead)
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2021-04-15T14:32:09 < zyp> i.e. less layers of shit = more worky
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2021-04-15T15:06:48 < karlp> correct :)
2021-04-15T15:08:29 < jpa-> hmm, good news: diy hipot tester works; bad news: my isolator fails yet another spec :D
2021-04-15T15:09:21 < jpa-> it leaks 50µA at 3200V through the enclosure plastic; not sure if that is a problem though because it is to the grounded connection & the current level is below limits for accessible parts
2021-04-15T15:09:36 < zyp> haha
2021-04-15T15:18:23 < jpa-> i was also interested to see whether STM32 would crash when there is an arc on the output of the HV generator; it doesn't, though SWD connection does drop
2021-04-15T15:19:26 < ventyl> an ideal cpu for compact pocket-size arc welders
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2021-04-15T15:33:10 < qyx> jpa-: I am interested in your diy hipot
2021-04-15T15:33:32 < qyx> any blags?
2021-04-15T15:36:47 < jpa-> no blags yet, very much work in progress https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210415_153552.jpg
2021-04-15T15:37:17 < jpa-> plan is to have it work as combined hipot tester / insulation resistance tester / ESD tester
2021-04-15T15:37:43 < jpa-> and to be safe to use, by hardware limiting the current to less than 2mA
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2021-04-15T15:57:33 < jadew> karlp, I crush the package
2021-04-15T15:58:05 < qyx> ladder multiplier?
2021-04-15T15:58:05 < jadew> sometimes doing it directly doesn't work well (it destroys the die), in which case I put it in a vice and torch it first
2021-04-15T15:58:17 < jadew> once it gets super hot, I crush it
2021-04-15T15:58:33 < jadew> and the die gets out unharmed
2021-04-15T15:59:02 < jadew> then I superglue it on a microscope slide, check it, and store it for reference
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2021-04-15T16:02:27 < jadew> I felt a little weird after the first dose of the pfizer vaccine too
2021-04-15T16:02:30 < jadew> but it went away quick
2021-04-15T16:03:01 < jadew> getting the second dose tomorrow
2021-04-15T16:03:09 < jadew> hope I'll make it
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2021-04-15T16:30:45 < karlp> jadew: do you crush one of your reputable sources too to have as a reference? what ar eyou buying that it's worth that effort? 
2021-04-15T16:31:12 < jadew> some diodes that aren't made anymore
2021-04-15T16:31:40 < jadew> I don't have one from an official source, I just know how the die should look and what markings it should have
2021-04-15T16:32:04 < karlp> from... where?
2021-04-15T16:32:12 < jadew> aliexpress
2021-04-15T16:32:22 < karlp> no, how do you know what it should look like?
2021-04-15T16:32:54 < jadew> ah, they have the logo and stuff
2021-04-15T16:32:55 < zyp> «this is how it looks when it works»
2021-04-15T16:33:01 < jadew> (and they work properly)
2021-04-15T16:33:42 < jadew> the fakes ones don't copy the die, they just use something else that's similar
2021-04-15T16:34:17 < karlp> zyp: what? he said he doesn't have any official sourced ones?
2021-04-15T16:34:26 < karlp> so he can compare ali A to ali B, but...?
2021-04-15T16:34:48 < zyp> if one of them are proved to work then that'll work as a reference
2021-04-15T16:35:18 < karlp> in other news, my mum is sending me emails with emoji's in the subject...
2021-04-15T16:35:26 < zyp> welcome to 2021
2021-04-15T16:39:02 < jadew> speaking of obscure shit, wth kind of connector is this? http://5.12.175.189/stuff/20210415_161606.jpg
2021-04-15T16:39:12 < jadew> http://5.12.175.189/stuff/20210415_161152.jpg
2021-04-15T16:39:38 < jadew> 3 mm in diameter
2021-04-15T16:43:54 < ventyl> mother of all transphobic connectors
2021-04-15T16:44:10 < Xogium> ventyl: is that swearing ? :p
2021-04-15T16:44:31 < ventyl> i wanted to say, that this is protofemale connector
2021-04-15T16:44:32 < karlp> nice, butt joint connector maybe?
2021-04-15T16:44:37 < ventyl> but I see, that there is something hidden inside
2021-04-15T16:45:22 < jadew> yeah, I'm not even sure if the mating connector enters this one and the center connector goes into that
2021-04-15T16:45:27 < jadew> or if this penetrates twice
2021-04-15T16:45:28 < karlp> looks like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001245228109.html 
2021-04-15T16:45:52 < jadew> karlp, it's a coaxial connector tho
2021-04-15T16:46:03 < jadew> should work at least to 1.5 GHz
2021-04-15T16:46:05 < karlp> well, i guess there's a coax vesion of the same thing...
2021-04-15T16:46:12 < karlp> better xray it, check it's legit ;)
2021-04-15T16:46:14 < jadew> ah, well, there is
2021-04-15T16:46:16 < jadew> it's called TMP
2021-04-15T16:46:20 < jadew> but this isn't it
2021-04-15T16:46:33 < karlp> like there'd ever be only one connector standard in rf world :)
2021-04-15T16:47:03 < jadew> that would be nice
2021-04-15T16:47:25 < ventyl> that would made a lot of people go brrrrr
2021-04-15T16:47:27 < karlp> https://patents.google.com/patent/US6863565B1/en
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2021-04-15T16:48:04 < jadew> yeah, that looks like the TMP connector
2021-04-15T16:48:06 < fenugrec> looks like some old gear there... 84xx datecode ?
2021-04-15T16:48:24 < jadew> that's TMP: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LPkAAOSw-jhUHbiB/s-l400.jpg
2021-04-15T16:48:45 < jadew> fenugrec, yeah, that's how I dated it as well
2021-04-15T16:48:54 < jadew> couldn't see anything newer
2021-04-15T16:49:34 < fenugrec> what is that MC* part anyway, some ECL stuff ? 
2021-04-15T16:49:48 < jadew> fenugrec, yeah, probably some sort of logic gate
2021-04-15T16:49:51 < karlp> jadew: would it plug into: https://www.svmicrowave.com/rf-series/bz
2021-04-15T16:49:53 < jadew> it's full of them
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2021-04-15T16:50:44 < jadew> karlp, it could be, let me find its specifications
2021-04-15T16:51:35  * karlp shrugs, thi si sjust a distraction :)
2021-04-15T16:51:47 < jadew> in the manual it's called "mini-coax" but there's no such thing
2021-04-15T16:52:00 < jadew> the closest thing is a rosenberger part, but it looks different
2021-04-15T16:53:43 < jadew> there must be a standard or something
2021-04-15T16:53:59 < jadew> I can't imagine they made their own connectors
2021-04-15T16:55:19 < jadew> "Some assembly required: 1) cut original cable. 2) solder onto board."
2021-04-15T16:56:31 < ventyl> h7 SPI is a lot of fun
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2021-04-15T17:01:54 < ventyl> "The value is not quite reliable when traffic is ongoing on bus
2021-04-15T17:02:06 < ventyl> well, thank you for providing not-quite-accurate values
2021-04-15T17:03:39 < karlp> fecking bluepy uses glib for an event loop, then scanf's argv manually. such clever, much lib use
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2021-04-15T17:46:03 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, flyback transformer to 1kV and diode ladder from there
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2021-04-15T17:50:24 < Laurenceb> windows10 is better than lunix mint they said
2021-04-15T17:50:37 < Laurenceb> outlook has crashed and broken my graphics
2021-04-15T17:50:45 < Laurenceb> lunix mint style
2021-04-15T17:52:22 < jadew> that's on you, for using outlook
2021-04-15T17:53:56 < ventyl> as I am always confusing LE and BE. have lowest 8 bits of 32bit stuff the same address as the whole 32bit stuff on Cortex-M? or is alignment opposite?
2021-04-15T17:54:37 < jpa-> ventyl: yeah, lowest byte is first, and that is little-endian
2021-04-15T17:55:05 < ventyl> i would  call that big endian
2021-04-15T17:55:08 < ventyl> but whatever
2021-04-15T17:55:43 < jpa-> you break the egg at the small end, you start reading the word at the small end, that's little-endian
2021-04-15T17:56:25 < ventyl> that makes no sense :>
2021-04-15T17:56:45 < ventyl> but hey! I also ignored the best practise to write using right hand...
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2021-04-15T18:40:53 < karlp> ok, I think a lot of my problems are that my bt controller I have on my desktop is just shitty :)
2021-04-15T18:41:29 < Laurenceb> what the fuck
2021-04-15T18:41:32 < Laurenceb> https://derby.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10545/624278/Creep%20Response%20of%20Various%20Solders%20used%20in%20Soldering%20Ball%20Grid%20Array%20%28BGA%29%20on%20Printed%20Circuit%20Board%20%28PCB%29.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
2021-04-15T18:41:35 < Laurenceb> >university
2021-04-15T18:41:39 < Laurenceb> >of Derby
2021-04-15T18:41:52 < Laurenceb> they actually did something useful
2021-04-15T18:46:18 < Laurenceb> that place still has signs around it saying "college" with "University" badly glued over
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2021-04-15T18:47:14 < Laurenceb> >when u cross out "College" with black marker and write "University"
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2021-04-15T18:49:11 < Laurenceb> wait maybe I could put a sign at the entrance to my underground trolling lair saying "university of shitposting"
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2021-04-15T18:50:36 < ds2> UoSP?
2021-04-15T18:50:53 < ds2> granting both graduate and undergraduate degrees? :D
2021-04-15T18:52:05 < jpa-> and honorary fellowship for lb
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2021-04-15T19:08:16 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9346881,-1.4985329,3a,15y,21.58h,87.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa-XfcP3uYybrmzYSpc140g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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2021-04-15T19:09:13 < Laurenceb> see I wasnt lying
2021-04-15T19:09:21 < Laurenceb> also, spotted the virgin walk
2021-04-15T19:09:24 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9361668,-1.4997593,3a,15y,32.88h,83.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKSLLm-uu9pY1gbWRyECiSQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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2021-04-15T19:23:04 < Laurenceb> >now everybody knows where I live
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2021-04-15T19:29:13 < specing> University of Incelshire
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2021-04-15T21:27:55 < t4nk_freenode> Cuckoosville
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2021-04-15T21:50:29 < qyx> greetings analol pros
2021-04-15T21:51:12 < qyx> what parameter would I take care of if I wanted to use a coupled inductor as a transformer?
2021-04-15T21:52:28 < qyx> I found this http://analog.intgckts.com/coupled-inductors-as-transformer/
2021-04-15T21:52:42 < qyx> but my EE-fu is not strong enough
2021-04-15T21:53:24 < zyp> what are you trying to do?
2021-04-15T21:54:35 < qyx> functional isolation for can/lin/rs485/whatever
2021-04-15T21:55:23 < qyx> but oh, I could use coupled inductor in a flyback topology
2021-04-15T21:55:37 < zyp> can't you just get an actual transformer? some of those cute small ones they use for ethernet looks nice
2021-04-15T21:55:44 < qyx> because most isolation transformer drivers need.- a transformer
2021-04-15T21:56:51 < qyx> the problem with flyback is it probably needs some feedback
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2021-04-15T22:03:57 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/TDK/ALT4532M-201-T001?qs=bZA2O%252B%252B1GJvjiBsQuIWGxA%3D%3D
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2021-04-15T22:09:45 < qyx> yeah I'll use this one with a dual n-mos to drive it
2021-04-15T22:15:45 < BrainDamage> an ideal transformer used like so has low coil inductance, an ideal flyback transformer instead wants high inductance
2021-04-15T22:16:15 < BrainDamage> because you want to charge up a lot of magnetic field
2021-04-15T22:16:18 < BrainDamage> and yes, a flyback needs feedback
2021-04-15T22:16:38 < qyx> so this ethernet transformer as zyp says may work
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2021-04-15T22:18:50 < BrainDamage> yes, remember one thing, to get a square wave out you want a ramp in the input, so    the coil has to be constantly charging, once it reaches saturation the output will drop
2021-04-15T22:19:29 < BrainDamage> you could do a constant current drive alternatively
2021-04-15T22:19:42 < BrainDamage> it's just a transistor + resistor feedback
2021-04-15T22:20:20 < BrainDamage> or two to make it bipolar
2021-04-15T22:21:38 < BrainDamage> alternatively, don't control the output and just clamp it with 2 zeners
2021-04-15T22:21:58 < BrainDamage> so you can avoid doing precise ramps
2021-04-15T22:22:13 < qyx> I want to transfer power
2021-04-15T22:22:47 < qyx> I plan to use dual mosfet driven directly by TIM complementary outputs
2021-04-15T22:23:44 < qyx> and a center tapped full wave rectifier on the secondary
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2021-04-15T23:52:45 < karlp> qyx: I was looking at using a coupled inductor to do a cheap isolated buck stuff, there's some ti notes on it, "flybuck" "tm" sort of thing.
2021-04-15T23:52:59 < karlp> you got like one isolated and one non-isolated output out of it.
2021-04-15T23:53:42 < qyx> I was considering that too
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2021-04-16T02:45:03 < aandrew> ugh I forgot how much of a pain in the ass CAN is to set up
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2021-04-16T02:53:19 < BrainDamage> every time I think of tin cans tied by a string ... which inevitably snaps
2021-04-16T02:54:10 < aandrew> heh
2021-04-16T02:54:27 < kakium69> are you talking about telephone?
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2021-04-16T02:55:35 < aandrew> if APB1 = 42MHz (STM32F407) and the prescaler is 16, that makes the CAN clock 2.625MHz
2021-04-16T03:10:09 < aandrew> the RM says the nominal bit time is tq (always 1) + BS1 + BS2, baudrate is 1/that
2021-04-16T03:12:00 < aandrew> no wait
2021-04-16T03:12:16 < aandrew> BS1 ranges from 1-16, BS2 from 1-8
2021-04-16T03:12:39 < aandrew> and tq is BRP which is 1-1024 
2021-04-16T03:13:54 < fenugrec> [install firefox 87, released 2 weeks ago] [st.com : "your browser is out of date.". Ah yes.]
2021-04-16T03:18:23 < aandrew> ah ok, I think... so the bit time is 1 + BS1 (1-16) + BS2 (1-8), and at least for devicenet you want the sample point to be 75% of the bit time. BS1=10 and BS2=3 makes that exactly 75%
2021-04-16T03:19:52 < aandrew> so that means the bit time is 1+11+4 or 16 tq, so I want my prescaler such that 1/16*tq = 125kHz
2021-04-16T03:20:24 < fenugrec> aandrew, I found this kind of calculator to be pretty nifty http://www.bittiming.can-wiki.info/  . Just beware the "prescaler value" is == register_value - 1
2021-04-16T03:20:40 < aandrew> I was there
2021-04-16T03:20:41 < aandrew> it's wrong
2021-04-16T03:20:57 < fenugrec> hah no way, what did it mess up
2021-04-16T03:21:07 < aandrew> er no, it isn't wrong, I put in 2.625MHz because I was dividing by 16 and that's wrong
2021-04-16T03:22:03 < aandrew> I need 16*tq = 8us (125kHz), so tq is 500ns
2021-04-16T03:22:48 < aandrew> 48Mhz is 20.8ns, so the prescaler needs to be 500/20.8 I think
2021-04-16T03:23:33 < aandrew> prescaler of 384 I think is what I want. 48MHz/384 is .125
2021-04-16T03:24:10 < aandrew> or do I want the prescaler 384/16 
2021-04-16T03:25:02 < aandrew> oh 87.5% is what dnet wants
2021-04-16T03:25:06 < aandrew> so that makes the numbers right
2021-04-16T03:25:34 < aandrew> haha
2021-04-16T03:25:45 < aandrew> yeah I was trying to figure out the prescaler but if you put in pclk it calculates it for you
2021-04-16T03:25:48 < aandrew> I was working too hard
2021-04-16T03:26:00 < fenugrec> told you it was nifty 
2021-04-16T03:26:02 < fenugrec> heh
2021-04-16T03:26:13 < aandrew> 125khz = prescaler 24 with BS1=13 and BS2=2
2021-04-16T03:27:11 < fenugrec> don't forget BRP = prescale-1, although you'd probably notice soon enough
2021-04-16T03:37:41 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-16T03:37:54 < aandrew> all of the fields are -1
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2021-04-16T03:50:52 < fenugrec> makes sense
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2021-04-16T04:19:06 < aandrew> wow the can filters are bit-scrambled to fuck
2021-04-16T04:21:56 < fenugrec> FFA1R etc ? yea I somehow managed to configure mine on the first try, but it took a lot of flipping through the RM
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2021-04-16T06:12:42 < upgrdman> looking for a cheap way to get truely-rail-to-rail op amp behavior. even RR op amps are often fucky within 100mV of their rails. so if i need 0-3.3V output, is the cheapest solution just to power the op amp with, say, 4V for VDD and -1V for VSS?
2021-04-16T06:13:15 < upgrdman> guessing some capacitor-based inverter is a decent way to do that?
2021-04-16T06:14:27 < fenugrec> RRIO should be... rail to rail. Define "fucky within 100mV"
2021-04-16T06:14:37 < aandrew> upgrdman: yep, that's exactly what I've done in the past
2021-04-16T06:15:03 < upgrdman> fenugrec, even RRIO isn't perfectly RR. often shit performance when close to the rails
2021-04-16T06:15:12 < upgrdman> aandrew, k
2021-04-16T06:15:41 < aandrew> upgrdman: if you're oging to do that you want to use an op-amp with a good PSRR
2021-04-16T06:16:00 < upgrdman> because of crappy -1V rail?
2021-04-16T06:16:30 < aandrew> yes
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2021-04-16T06:18:24 < fenugrec> upgrdman, "shit performance", I guess, if you need perfectly uniform characteristics, then definitely need extra rails . Exactly what are you not ready to sacrifice, full swing at heavy loads ? CMRR at/near rails ? noise ?
2021-04-16T06:19:08 < upgrdman> linearity near the rails
2021-04-16T06:19:29 < upgrdman> e.g. if sine wave in, i dont want some fucky flat top/bottoms since wave out
2021-04-16T06:22:34 < fenugrec> eh, probably going to need those extra rails
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2021-04-16T08:26:13 < upgrdman> anyone used stm32 otg-hs in host mode to interfact with the usb wifi adapter? trying to find options for transmitting >100Mbps over wifi
2021-04-16T08:26:32 < upgrdman> not sure how difficult the software stack for that would be :/
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2021-04-16T09:09:08 < jpa-> probably quite easy if you are running linux, probably quite hard otherwise
2021-04-16T09:09:21 < upgrdman> ya, fml
2021-04-16T09:10:19 < upgrdman> hmm. maybe a who fucking raspberry pi would be easiest for shitting lots of data to wifi
2021-04-16T09:10:23 < upgrdman> s/who/whole
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2021-04-16T09:10:50 < upgrdman> i wonder if the pi gpio header has any easy way to funnel assloads of data, like qspi or whatever
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2021-04-16T09:13:56 < jpa-> getting consistent 100Mbps over wifi may be difficult in any case
2021-04-16T09:14:35 < jpa-> RS9116N apparently gets 99Mbps :D
2021-04-16T09:14:37 < upgrdman> 11ac can easily do it for me. i often get >200Mbps between my router and laptop
2021-04-16T09:15:32 < upgrdman> RS9116N looks to be b/g/n? ya, that's slow as shit
2021-04-16T09:16:01 < upgrdman> i think between my phone and my laptop, both on 11ac, i've seen >400Mbps
2021-04-16T09:16:06 < jpa-> IIRC 11ac slows down if there are other g/n devices on network transferring data
2021-04-16T09:16:33 < upgrdman> heh, cool
2021-04-16T09:19:11 < jpa-> LWB5 supports 802.11ac with SDIO interface
2021-04-16T09:23:02 < jpa-> but looks like they don't bother documenting the protocol and just provide linux drivers..
2021-04-16T09:28:55 < zyp> jpa-, don't you usually have ac on 5G and g/n on 2.4G?
2021-04-16T09:29:10 < zyp> i.e. fast shit on 5G and slow shit on 2.4G
2021-04-16T09:29:25 < ventyl> you can have n on 5g too, I thinkg
2021-04-16T09:29:38 < ventyl> if 2.4G around you is too noisy
2021-04-16T09:29:51 < jpa-> and it will depend if the base station can operate its 2.4G and 5G antennas at the same time
2021-04-16T09:31:13 < jpa-> but anyway it will only affect it if the g/n devices are transferring a lot of data also
2021-04-16T09:32:01 < jpa-> so not much of a problem for own use, but if upgrdman was designing a product then the customers would surely be watching cat videos and complaining why their wireless oscilloscope drops data
2021-04-16T09:32:45 < upgrdman> lol ya
2021-04-16T09:33:22 < upgrdman> heh, it would be kinda cool to make a oscope probe that is a front-end/adc/wifi thing
2021-04-16T09:33:39 < upgrdman> but that's beyond my skillset for ow
2021-04-16T09:33:42 < upgrdman> now*
2021-04-16T09:33:45 < jpa-> using usb sticks would definitely be easiest from regulatory compliance point of view also
2021-04-16T09:33:53 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-16T09:34:07 < jpa-> i wonder if there is some kind of usb class standard for them, or if each one is different
2021-04-16T09:34:46 < jpa-> i guess just stick uclinux or stm32mp1 on it :P
2021-04-16T09:41:08 < Xogium> heh only thing I really hate about the seeed studio stm32mp157c dev board is the fact they decided to put dfu on the second usb host port, of all things
2021-04-16T09:41:57 < Xogium> type a to type a cables, meh. Type a to type a without vbus removed plugged in = oops
2021-04-16T09:43:04 < zyp> haha, wat
2021-04-16T09:43:12 < ventyl> type a to type a?
2021-04-16T09:43:25 < jpa-> yeah, looks like it is using the built-in bootloader which only works on a specific USB interface
2021-04-16T09:43:25 < ventyl> I expect you have to craft these, don't you?
2021-04-16T09:43:29 < zyp> I guess they didn't intend for it to be used
2021-04-16T09:43:43 < jpa-> "For anyone interested, the VBUS line on the Odyssey STM32MP157 isn’t powered until Linux or U-Boot pulls up the associated power GPIO."
2021-04-16T09:44:04 < Xogium> I shorted the usb ports
2021-04-16T09:44:07 < Xogium> :(
2021-04-16T09:44:16 < jpa-> you already have the dev board?
2021-04-16T09:44:23 < Xogium> sure
2021-04-16T09:44:40 < Xogium> took one to toy with, aside from the one for my project
2021-04-16T09:45:49 < Xogium> jpa-: btw, its kinda shaky, because they have their u-boot pulling it up, and they are litterally hoping the kernel won't walk all over it
2021-04-16T09:48:20 < Xogium> or so I've been told - I can kinda manage to read dts but beyond that, reading C code
2021-04-16T09:48:54 < Xogium> I also managed to crash the wifi chip first try
2021-04-16T09:49:17 < Xogium> I erm, litterally just ran 'apt update && apt upgrade'
2021-04-16T09:49:41 < Xogium> thanks broadcom
2021-04-16T09:51:18 < Xogium> for what its worth, if you guys are willing to toy with it from a mainline point, you can, though the very basic is just what's in it for now
2021-04-16T09:51:29 < Xogium> like sd/eMMC detected, ethernet
2021-04-16T09:51:53 < Xogium> I even got wifi ans usb to kind of work on mainline with my own tweaks
2021-04-16T09:52:48 < Xogium> the sound driver is kinda a bit flaky and needs patching apparently, didn't get time to investigate just that
2021-04-16T09:52:52 < jpa-> i've become very fearful of software support for complex chips; i guess i should do more like karlp does, evaluating many platforms in depth before selecting
2021-04-16T09:53:26 < Xogium> well matter of fact, it was pure luck we could use mainline so soon in the project…
2021-04-16T09:54:09 < Xogium> we bought the odyssey board, and not 2 days after it arrived, a patch was submitted on arm linux patchwork to add initial support for it
2021-04-16T09:55:06 < Xogium> but rn still waiting for st to upstream the things like power modes
2021-04-16T09:55:34 < Xogium> so we can do proper standby mode, that requires proper support in ATF and in kernel
2021-04-16T09:55:57 < Xogium> basically shutdown the whole SoC and save the state to ram
2021-04-16T09:56:02 < ventyl> haha, cat got scared by dishwasher releasing detergent :D
2021-04-16T09:56:09 < Xogium> poor cat
2021-04-16T09:56:46 < ventyl> cats have shitty software equipment. i expect it caused reboot and now she doesn't remember shit
2021-04-16T09:56:53 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-16T09:58:15 < Xogium> in fact its also on that board we got the lifepo4 hat for rpi working currently
2021-04-16T09:58:51 < Xogium> but we want to use another for our own proto board
2021-04-16T09:59:31 < Xogium> its currently a thing that only support one battery, so we had to use a big 26650
2021-04-16T09:59:50 < Xogium> we want to move to dual 18650 instead
2021-04-16T10:01:18 < Xogium> but my friend thinks it would be possible to do a bms on the same pcb as the rest. I'd tend to disagree though, sounds like having one board reserved to battery management is way safer
2021-04-16T10:01:50 < Xogium> but, I don't really kow since I've never delt with battery before
2021-04-16T10:01:54 < Xogium> *know
2021-04-16T10:02:55 < Xogium> Ialso honestly tried alibaba but really, I find the ui very confusing so far and not sure what to search for
2021-04-16T10:03:34 < Xogium> I tried to search for lifepo4 related things but I only see the typical big as hell batteries, like 60v 100a
2021-04-16T10:04:21 < ventyl> get a list of dimensions and search for specific size of cell
2021-04-16T10:04:46 < ventyl> nowadays with photovoltaic and electric whatever, it may be hard to find small cell based solely on chemistry
2021-04-16T10:05:42 < Xogium> yeah
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2021-04-16T10:06:34 < Xogium> I also tried 18650 lifepo4 as search, but then they mixed in li-po and li-ion in the results, as well as, well providing big as hell batteries in 18650 form
2021-04-16T10:06:37 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-16T10:10:21 < Xogium> on the other hand, I did find a 1-3 cell charger for lifepo4 from TI on mouser
2021-04-16T10:10:33 < Xogium> which is well, as good as its going to get, I reckon
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2021-04-16T10:11:16 < Xogium> but didn,t get the time to study all the specs to avoid the obvious gotcha, if it really comes to us making our own bms
2021-04-16T10:12:05 < Xogium> I know it charge as well has do boost for the battery, but we would still be lacking some kind of battery protection
2021-04-16T10:13:06 < Xogium> frankly all we need would be like 5v/2.5a max for the batteries ;)
2021-04-16T10:13:44 < Xogium> so not playing with mega dangerous amount of current, at the ver least
2021-04-16T10:13:48 < Xogium> *very
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2021-04-16T10:22:06 < jpa-> "usb 3-3-port2: disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling..."       heh, i had forgotten how fun it is to play with high voltage arcs
2021-04-16T10:22:28 < zyp> fun
2021-04-16T10:27:09 < Steffann> Reminds me that my keyboard would reconnect or just function improperly one day one day. I had no clue what was going on
2021-04-16T10:27:29 < Steffann> Then I realized they were playing with some ESD gun in the office next to me....
2021-04-16T10:27:53 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-16T10:27:57 < Xogium> that sucks
2021-04-16T10:28:15 < Xogium> I used to fsck up my braille display with ESD
2021-04-16T10:28:55 < Steffann> The funny thing. The gun was used to repair something, not to break it :)
2021-04-16T10:29:22 < Xogium> turns out that when I read on it, the sleeves of my vest were always in contact with the thing, and at one point, bam ! Discharge right into the display. Boy didn't it like that, froze up and made weird nonexistent braille symbols
2021-04-16T10:29:35 < Xogium> *discharge
2021-04-16T10:30:04 < Xogium> aka, braille display don't like static electricity one bit
2021-04-16T10:30:37 < Steffann> Sure it wasn't you trying to enter the matrix?
2021-04-16T10:31:02 < Xogium> and since they are piezo based, the piezo don't like that much either, and you make the crystals go crazy
2021-04-16T10:31:12 < Xogium> hehe
2021-04-16T10:31:16 < Xogium> could have been
2021-04-16T10:31:18 < Steffann> I can imagine that is what the green characters from the matrix could look like in braille 😋
2021-04-16T10:31:23 < jpa-> weird that they wouldn't have proper ESD protection tehre
2021-04-16T10:32:06 < Xogium> and it wasn't small shocks either, it was enogh to actually be painful
2021-04-16T10:32:10 < Xogium> *enough
2021-04-16T10:32:57 < Steffann> Guess they never got it tested properly then 
2021-04-16T10:33:07 < Xogium> I had that happening every few minutes and it was down right annoying when you were in the midle of an exam
2021-04-16T10:33:24 < Xogium> zap ! Sigh, disconnect, reconnect, read, zap ! God damn it
2021-04-16T10:35:28 < Xogium> at one point it had enough, and refused to power on. and well, what'd the  school do ? They exprelled me, because my display broke, and I was slowing the rest of the students
2021-04-16T10:35:45 < Xogium> can you imagine yourself being expelled because you broke your pen ?
2021-04-16T10:36:24 < jpa-> they should have just gotten you an esd wriststrap :)
2021-04-16T10:36:33 < Xogium> they said I could come back once my display was fixed. I never actually came back
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2021-04-16T10:38:06 < Xogium> I swear, I was beyond angry, I think enraged at that point, I was litterally shaking
2021-04-16T10:38:42 < Xogium> and its only when I was back at home and had time to calm down that I realized that I actually still had the laptop from the school XD
2021-04-16T10:41:37 < Xogium> so yeah that's how I actually never graduated from high school :p
2021-04-16T10:43:59 < upgrdman> if i want a variable gain op amp circuit, is a digital pot the best option? they seems to have low bandwidth, often <1MHz :(
2021-04-16T10:45:11 < Steffann> How variable does it have to be? A random PGA not flexible enough?
2021-04-16T10:47:15 < jpa-> you can also just buy a VGA, like AD8330 or similar
2021-04-16T10:48:00 < Steffann> Is that ic unobtainium? Or is analol devices free from that ( i recall they're not)
2021-04-16T10:48:33 < jpa-> well you can just buy it from digikey, but it does cost $11
2021-04-16T10:48:43 < jpa-> there are probably cheaper VGA chips
2021-04-16T10:49:17 < jpa-> but PGA is cheaper & more precise if the gain doesn't have to be continuously variable
2021-04-16T10:49:54 < jpa-> LMH6505 at $6 looks to be the cheapest VGA on digikey
2021-04-16T10:50:53 < upgrdman> hmm
2021-04-16T10:51:22 < upgrdman> i was hoping to use digital pots because they cheap. a quad op amp + quad pots should be under $10
2021-04-16T10:51:31 < upgrdman> but ya, not enough bandwidth on digital pots
2021-04-16T10:51:54 < upgrdman> guess i should look at oscope front ends to see how they do offset/gain cheaply
2021-04-16T10:52:07 < jpa-> discrete steps like in oscilloscopes are easy
2021-04-16T10:52:13 < jpa-> just analog mux
2021-04-16T10:52:17 < upgrdman> discrete is fine 
2021-04-16T10:52:31 < upgrdman> bunch of resistors + anal mux?
2021-04-16T10:52:48 < jpa-> yeah, resistor divider with separate taps and analog mux to select one of them
2021-04-16T10:53:02 < upgrdman> fuck yes
2021-04-16T10:53:40 < jpa-> for high speed & high DC input impedance combination, put capacitor divider in parallel with the resistor divider
2021-04-16T10:54:04 < upgrdman> why the caps?
2021-04-16T10:54:42 < jpa-> because if you have e.g. 1Mohm input impedance, even 1pF of stray PCB capacitance will limit signal to 150kHz
2021-04-16T10:55:19 < jpa-> while you can put e.g. 10pF capacitor divider in parallel and there will be no frequency response drop-off, at the cost of presenting that capacitance to the input also
2021-04-16T10:55:36 < jpa-> that's why most scopes have input impedance specified as e.g. "1Mohm parallel with 13pF"
2021-04-16T10:56:20 < upgrdman> thanks for answering a question i didnt know how to phrase :) always wondered
2021-04-16T10:58:40 < upgrdman> and the caps should be divided like the resistors, right? so if 1meg + 100k + 100k + 100k + 100k .... caps would be like 20pf + 2pf + 2pf + 2pf ?
2021-04-16T10:58:52 < jpa-> no, the opposite
2021-04-16T10:59:10 < jpa-> you'd have e.g.    1meg & 1pF, 100k & 10pF  etc.
2021-04-16T10:59:16 < ventyl> jesus... i became so dumb over the years
2021-04-16T10:59:19 < upgrdman> k
2021-04-16T10:59:33 < ventyl> i used to at least have a clue about these things
2021-04-16T10:59:36 < ventyl> today: nothing
2021-04-16T10:59:47 < ventyl> my limit is at around 50kHz :>
2021-04-16T11:02:48 < upgrdman> jpa-, what phrase should i research to learn more about the parallel caps
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2021-04-16T11:03:28 < jpa-> upgrdman: typically you would start by checking your analog mux input capacitance, and include that in the value for the taps that have analog mux connected, and then add a fixed value capacitor so that the spec variability isn't too large (e.g. if you have analog mux spec of 3.9 to 4.1pF, you might select 40pF so there is 1% variability, and then calculate rest from that)
2021-04-16T11:03:44 < jpa-> upgrdman: hmm, capacitive divider is the general term
2021-04-16T11:03:51 < upgrdman> k thx
2021-04-16T11:04:22 < jpa-> but i'm not sure if there is a specific term for when you have the caps & resistors in parallel; it is a very common circuit so it might have a name
2021-04-16T11:04:47 < jpa-> "frequency compensated voltage divider" apparently
2021-04-16T11:06:01 < upgrdman> good thing i'm reading about this a few days before pulling the trigger on a pcb order (but for a much simpler circuit)
2021-04-16T11:06:24 < jpa-> good thing that if you forget the caps, you can always solder them on top of the resistors :)
2021-04-16T11:06:43 < upgrdman> *nods*
2021-04-16T11:08:19 < upgrdman> i did dividers with something like 100kOhm and 22kOhm, and just put some small caps between center tap and GND so the ADC would see a lower-impedance
2021-04-16T11:08:41 < upgrdman> but i should prolly add a top capacitor, and that might even let me go higher impedance
2021-04-16T11:08:54 < upgrdman> i was worried to do 1meg and end up starving the ADC
2021-04-16T11:09:14 < jpa-> yeah, 1 meg to ADC directly without buffer amp wouldn't work very well
2021-04-16T11:09:23 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-16T11:13:03 < upgrdman> jpa-, thx for all the advice. much appreciated. gotta go, bbl.
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2021-04-16T11:24:43 < Xogium> is this thing even legit ?
2021-04-16T11:24:50 < Xogium> https://www.batteryspace.com/protection-circuit-module-pcb-for-2-cells-6-4v-lifepo4-battery-pack-at-5a-limited.aspx
2021-04-16T11:25:21 < Xogium> seems shady to me but I really don't know
2021-04-16T11:30:59 < jpa-> seems pretty normal
2021-04-16T11:32:07 < Xogium> what's funy is they say its for lifepo4 but the datasheet of the chips they used both claim they are meant to protect li-po and li-ion
2021-04-16T11:32:16 < Xogium> hence why I was not sure
2021-04-16T11:32:26 < Xogium> *li-ion
2021-04-16T11:32:44 < jpa-> difference is just protection voltages
2021-04-16T11:33:50 < Xogium> so I suppose those chips are progrmmable in some way
2021-04-16T11:34:01 < Xogium> to set the right protection voltage
2021-04-16T11:34:48 < Xogium> damn, I can't type today
2021-04-16T11:39:35 < ventyl> you may need slightly different voltages even accross same chemistry depending on additives
2021-04-16T11:40:18 < ventyl> like li-ion with / without some stuff such as cobalt may need different voltage
2021-04-16T11:40:27 < ventyl> those are usually specified by cell manufacturer
2021-04-16T12:31:23 < jpa-> Xogium: usually there are just many variants of the same chip, like -36 for 3.6V protection and -42 for 4.2V protection
2021-04-16T12:32:59 < Xogium> jpa-: ah, that makes lot of sense
2021-04-16T12:33:32 < jpa-> that S-8252AAJ-M6T1U appears to be a 4.25V model so not particularly suitable for lifepo4
2021-04-16T12:33:59 < jpa-> S-8232NU would make more sense as it has 3.85V protection voltage
2021-04-16T12:34:47 < jpa-> ah it's actually different versions of that protection pcb
2021-04-16T12:35:08 < jpa-> or something
2021-04-16T12:35:56 < jpa-> because their specs for the PCB give 3.85V voltage which would match that S-8232NU model
2021-04-16T12:36:42 < Xogium> yeah that's strange
2021-04-16T12:37:50 < Xogium> I'm trying figure out if we should just make a run for it and have like charger pcb/protection pcb all separate from each other and separate from the main pcb that will have stm32mp1, sound codec, and so on
2021-04-16T12:38:05 < Xogium> or if we could get away with putting it all on the same pcb like my friend said
2021-04-16T12:40:30 < jpa-> one option is also to use cells with integrated protection PCB; usually they can handle up to 2S series connection
2021-04-16T12:40:52 < Xogium> I think adding it on main pcb would be a lot more complex, personally, but what do I know ;)
2021-04-16T12:41:11 < Xogium> ah yes
2021-04-16T12:41:28 < Xogium> I've herad of that, but I never actually saw ones like it. Yet, at any rate
2021-04-16T12:41:33 < Xogium> *heard
2021-04-16T12:41:57 < jpa-> yeah, it's very common for li-ion 18650, but harder to find for lifepo4
2021-04-16T12:42:50 < Xogium> I've only seen that in large batteries that cost thousands
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2021-04-16T12:44:47 < Xogium> not in tiny ones like the ones I plan on using
2021-04-16T12:45:23 < jpa-> ah, i thought you were going for 18650
2021-04-16T12:45:30 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-16T12:45:32 < Xogium> I am
2021-04-16T12:45:43 < jpa-> there is e.g. http://www.soshine.com.cn/a31.aspx
2021-04-16T12:45:49 < Xogium> but like, tiny ones that can output 2 or 3A max
2021-04-16T12:46:28 < Xogium> its just to power a portable media player/documents reader
2021-04-16T12:48:45 < Xogium> so this battery can manage upt to 6A ?
2021-04-16T12:49:20 < Xogium> trying to figure out the table of data, not too easy with a screen reader :D
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2021-04-16T12:51:11 < jpa-> yeah
2021-04-16T12:51:33 < Xogium> that should be plenty of current…
2021-04-16T12:51:52 < jpa-> not clear from the specs though whether the protection circuit can handle series connection
2021-04-16T12:52:03 < Xogium> yeah hmm
2021-04-16T12:55:50 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-16T12:56:03 < Xogium> its still a damn good find, I say
2021-04-16T13:01:41 < Xogium> might be worth asking them then, I suppose. If the circuit supports serie/parallel
2021-04-16T13:03:10 < jpa-> as a device user, i might prefer just normal protected li-ion 18650 cells that are easily available, and preferrably in a holder so it is easy to swap if they wear out
2021-04-16T13:03:42 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-16T13:03:57 < Xogium> we wanted to use a holder for this too, instead of soldering it in
2021-04-16T13:04:23 < Xogium> I hate devices with batteries that can't be removed and replaced by users
2021-04-16T13:06:46 < Xogium> but maybe using holders with lifepo4 isn't doable easily
2021-04-16T13:07:13 < Xogium> also since the device is meant for blind people, we thought of using lifepo4 since they are safer tha li-po or li-ion
2021-04-16T13:07:19 < Xogium> *than
2021-04-16T13:07:36 < jpa-> same 18650 holders should work for lifepo4 and li-ion
2021-04-16T13:08:13 < jpa-> but because of poor availability of lifepo4 with protection on the cell, you might want to put the protection circuit on mainboard; though that will mean that once users remove the cell from the device, it is no longer protected
2021-04-16T13:08:25 < Xogium> right
2021-04-16T13:08:38 < Xogium> could be a bit of a problem
2021-04-16T13:10:44 < Xogium> that could be dangerous even, unless I'm mistaken
2021-04-16T13:10:54 < Xogium> I mean, unprotected cells
2021-04-16T13:11:08 < jpa-> loose cells in pocket with e.g. key chain is a recipe for fire
2021-04-16T13:11:22 < jpa-> even from lifepo4 which won't burn itself but can heat enough to ignite other things
2021-04-16T13:11:33 < Xogium> hmmm er yeah that is a good point
2021-04-16T13:11:59 < jpa-> but i guess if the cells are not meant to be routinely swapped by users but only when they are worn out, it is not as much of a problem
2021-04-16T13:12:28 < Xogium> yeah, only when worn out
2021-04-16T13:13:28 < Xogium> but of course the user manual and stuff will mention the usual ,be careful with batteries' things, it would be stupid and very unsafe not to
2021-04-16T13:15:17 < jpa-> also you can get as much energy from a single 18650 li-ion cell as you can get from two 18650 lifepo4 cells
2021-04-16T13:15:40 < Xogium> yep, but they wear out faster, don't they
2021-04-16T13:16:01 < jpa-> yeah
2021-04-16T13:18:14 < Xogium> its all very good things to know
2021-04-16T13:18:21 < Xogium> I appreciate it ;)
2021-04-16T13:18:40 < jpa-> :)
2021-04-16T13:19:34 < Xogium> must say I was kind of annoyed the other day when I went ask for some help in electronics irc because I figured it was the place, and I was treated like, what's the word ? Patronising ? That did sound like it, though probably not what was intended
2021-04-16T13:20:18 < Xogium> but basically I was told that making a bbms for handling battery on my own project was too hard and beyond my capabilities
2021-04-16T13:20:44 < Xogium> I might not understand many things, but if people just tell me that without more explanation to follow, I sure won't learn how it all works
2021-04-16T13:23:08 < Xogium> I won't be the one that designs the hardware anyway, but I feel like understanding what I'm doing at a very minimum :p
2021-04-16T13:34:47 < Steffann> Xogium you have no idea how many people left ##stm32 over the years because.. it was considered unfriendly :D
2021-04-16T13:36:14 < PaulFertser> You put it so mildly Steffann (where did you lose X).
2021-04-16T13:46:50 < jpa-> Xogium: people have very varying relationships with batteries, some fear them a lot and think one shouldn't DIY anything
2021-04-16T13:54:27 < karlp> lifepo still sounds like a lot more work for not a lot of extra gain.
2021-04-16T13:54:49 < jpa-> gain less fire
2021-04-16T13:55:58 < englishman> how can anyone consider us unfriendly. what fucking assholes
2021-04-16T13:56:00 < Xogium> Steffann: well so far you guys seem all friendly to me ;)
2021-04-16T13:56:11 < Xogium> lol
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2021-04-16T13:58:47 < englishman> i'm mixed on lipos. we're supposed to be afraid of them with good reason. but i have never been able to have one catch on fire. i've tried overcharging them, driving nails through them, shooting them, and slicing them with an axe. even this happened: https://i.imgur.com/MSH0ymw.jpg then i go to see a pal, he's charging a battery and kaboom it lights on fucking fire like it's nothing
2021-04-16T13:59:54 < Xogium> wow
2021-04-16T14:00:14 < jpa-> i don't like lipos much, but i consider protected 18650 li-ion safe enough
2021-04-16T14:01:35 < Xogium> my previous phone had non-removable lipo
2021-04-16T14:01:39 < Xogium> :p
2021-04-16T14:01:51 < zyp> everything is removable if you try hard enough
2021-04-16T14:02:00 < Xogium> hehe
2021-04-16T14:02:01 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-16T14:02:11 < Xogium> pass me that hammer will you ?
2021-04-16T14:02:13 < Xogium> bang !
2021-04-16T14:02:15 < Xogium> there ya go
2021-04-16T14:04:41 < Xogium> there was this video of a guy doing all the stuff you shouldn't do th a lipo, I don't remember it
2021-04-16T14:04:54 < Xogium> but it was fun to watch
2021-04-16T14:06:04 < Xogium> ahah I found it
2021-04-16T14:06:09 < Xogium> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHNXmhNnLK8
2021-04-16T14:09:21 < Xogium> some guys are insane
2021-04-16T14:10:22 < ventyl> are lipos such a big deal? they are used in cellphones for like two decades
2021-04-16T14:10:32 < ventyl> and i have some 20 years old ones, which still run
2021-04-16T14:10:39 < Steffanx> It's here PaulFertser 
2021-04-16T14:19:51 < BrainDamage> lipos are more fragile to liion because of the soft shell, so they require a hard case and more precise charging/discharging envelope, other than that, no
2021-04-16T14:20:22 < BrainDamage> phones have both the hard shell and the logic to handle the charge correctly
2021-04-16T14:20:57 < BrainDamage> one things that phones can do wrong is overheat them indirectly from the electronics
2021-04-16T14:28:26 < karlp> for xogium, who already stated they wanted to use 18650, lifepo seems to have no benefits though. just use protected 18650s, readily available, everything's compatible.
2021-04-16T14:28:47 < karlp> lifepo in pouches, sure, seems safer if that's something you need to deal with.
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2021-04-16T14:37:15 < BrainDamage> 18650 have the great advantage that they are easily replaceable too
2021-04-16T14:43:00 < karlp> which I felt was one of the reasons Xogium  wanted to use them.
2021-04-16T14:46:18 < Xogium> karlp: well, main reason was more like thermal runaway itself
2021-04-16T14:46:46 < Xogium> karlp: for example if the device starts to malfuction, I was thinking that lifepo4 would be safer than lipo or li-ion
2021-04-16T14:46:55 < Xogium> but, maybe not
2021-04-16T14:47:17 < Xogium> that is to say, maybe it was misguided choice
2021-04-16T14:47:47  * karlp is not a battery expert :)
2021-04-16T14:48:23 < Xogium> heh, neither am I :p I was just trying to find the safest thing possible, for the most part
2021-04-16T14:48:50 < jpa-> lifepo4 certainly is safer, but 18650 li-ion is not terribly unsafe either
2021-04-16T14:49:05 < karlp> I feele like the ease of mixingup lifepos with lipos is a bigger risk, than just sticking with plain 18650 lions
2021-04-16T14:49:14 < jpa-> i like that they have both mechanical and electrical safety functions, mechanically disconnects if pressure builds up
2021-04-16T14:49:18 < jpa-> lipo just puffs out
2021-04-16T14:49:26 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-16T14:50:15 < Xogium> but I was also thinking of other blind people that might live alone, and thinking what they would do should something go wrong with the battery
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2021-04-16T14:51:30 < Xogium> honestly personally the only time I had a li-ion battery misbehave was in a laptop. I was never clear on wtf happened to it but basically it started to swel up and, yeah that could have turned pretty bad if I had been alone at that time, becuase I honestly had no idea what to do
2021-04-16T14:54:09 < Xogium> that was kinda scary, must say. Not that I think it happens all the time, I was probably beyond unlucky for this
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2021-04-16T14:55:29 < Xogium> but yeah that's what got me thinking about how I could try to make it safer for other blind people basically
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2021-04-16T15:01:45 < karlp> ventyl: you around? what's the element_id parameter to fdcan_get_rxfifo_addr for? (fixing doxygen warnings)
2021-04-16T15:04:03 < karlp> things like fdcan_get_txbuf_element_size should be in the common .h file right?
2021-04-16T15:04:42 < karlp> it's only used in the common, so yeah...
2021-04-16T15:04:44  * karlp moves it
2021-04-16T15:06:03 < BrainDamage> unrelated, scaringly accurate: https://nitter.snopyta.org/OhChickenBalls/status/1382678474402504708
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2021-04-16T16:13:55 < Steffann> I never get emails like that BrainDamage . Ok I do, but those are from Natasha who wants to share sexy pics or Chen from MyPerfectPCB.com
2021-04-16T16:14:50 < BrainDamage> yes, the latter, but with broken english and overly friendly tone
2021-04-16T16:15:37 < t4nk_freenode> what do you mean, my friend?
2021-04-16T16:16:03 < Steffann> I always reply Natasha that I only share sexy pics with jpa- 
2021-04-16T16:16:49 < Steffann> !
2021-04-16T16:19:48 < englishman> Hello, it is me, Alvin, your best friend. Please to be telling me when you will be placing the order?
2021-04-16T16:25:25 < t4nk_freenode> you have watched too many simpsons episode, english-apu!
2021-04-16T16:25:35 < t4nk_freenode> episodes.
2021-04-16T16:29:02 < Streaker> where did Steffanx go?
2021-04-16T16:30:12 < t4nk_freenode> he let the people he loves know in a mail, that it just didn't feel right in his current body
2021-04-16T16:30:14 < t4nk_freenode> :|
2021-04-16T16:32:27 < Steffanx> Hes alive Streaker 
2021-04-16T16:32:37 < Streaker> oh good.
2021-04-16T16:33:13 < Steffann> Ikr
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2021-04-16T16:33:50 < Streaker> imposter!
2021-04-16T16:34:19 < Steffann> t4nk_freenode:  I don't think I've ever seen an entire episode of the Simpsons or South Park. What about that?
2021-04-16T16:34:59 < t4nk_freenode> your pants must be on fire, methinks!
2021-04-16T16:35:41 < t4nk_freenode> hang on, I'm in a discussion with my own Chen... on the status of 'my orderings'
2021-04-16T16:37:57 < t4nk_freenode> ah, ... 'an entire episode'.... that's a little more plausible, though I still think your pants are on fire
2021-04-16T16:39:26 < t4nk_freenode> darnit! Chen is really communicative here, lol, insta-response
2021-04-16T16:59:47 < karlp> heh, they recognise that thye path nesting is insane, and you might run into actual problems with path depths if you don't take care:) https://bin.jvnv.net/file/3TcAn.png
2021-04-16T17:01:04 < ventyl> that's pretty standard issue @ windows with 512 character limit for path and 256 character limit for name
2021-04-16T17:01:17 < englishman> if you try to open an excel file in excel where the path length is too long, it just won't open. no error or anything, it just shows a black screen
2021-04-16T17:01:23 < englishman> *blank
2021-04-16T17:03:38 < karlp> https://memegenerator.net/instance/85406231/
2021-04-16T17:03:58 < ventyl> it goes deeper
2021-04-16T17:04:10 < ventyl> if you have large CMake build and you try to delete it
2021-04-16T17:04:17 < ventyl> you may end up with immortal folder
2021-04-16T17:04:27 < Xogium> bwahahah
2021-04-16T17:04:50 < ventyl> it doesn't have any attributes, it is owned by administrator and nobody (not even administrator) can delete it
2021-04-16T17:04:58 < ventyl> it simply sits there and go fuck yourself
2021-04-16T17:05:15 < Xogium> well live linux to the rescue ? :S
2021-04-16T17:05:17 < karlp> Xogium: your laughter made me go and check, and yay, memegenerator seems to do all the accessibility captions right :)
2021-04-16T17:05:32 < ventyl> then you reboot the machine and folder is gone
2021-04-16T17:05:48 < ventyl> I assume that this is some kind of split brain condition on VFS, which is multi-threaded, but not really
2021-04-16T17:05:58 < Xogium> damn
2021-04-16T17:06:14 < ventyl> and something somewhere screws up, folder being deleted at one thread while being already cached in list of items in another
2021-04-16T17:07:04 < Xogium> gah sometimes windows really sucks
2021-04-16T17:07:43 < Xogium> though I once had something pretty similar in linux, granted it was because they played with eMMC clock frequencies in a release
2021-04-16T17:08:10 < Xogium> so I compile and install that, boot up, everything is fine… And so I decide to delete the older kernel I still had in backup
2021-04-16T17:08:40 < Xogium> I do rm on the modules folder only to blink in total confusion as 'ls' still shows its there, but rm says no such file or directory
2021-04-16T17:09:21 < Xogium> and then, it all went down to hell. Filesystem corrupted beyond fixing because the voltage on the eMMC litterally dropped till the system didn't see it anymore
2021-04-16T17:11:13 < Xogium> so yeah it kinda got pretty similar to how it'd be should you remove your ssd or whatever while it runs
2021-04-16T17:13:41 < ventyl> in this case no removal or HW failure is needed
2021-04-16T17:13:56 < ventyl> with w7 you could reproduce this on every other attempt to delete large directory tree
2021-04-16T17:14:00 < ventyl> or playing with git
2021-04-16T17:14:04 < Xogium> damn
2021-04-16T17:14:09 < Xogium> sucks
2021-04-16T17:15:08 < ventyl> win10 behaves better, but you still can get there
2021-04-16T17:15:54 < ventyl> also, soon after win10 became adopted, I switched employer and started working on smaller projects, so I can't really assess the prevalence here
2021-04-16T17:16:09 < Xogium> that's rather hardcore really
2021-04-16T17:16:18 < ventyl> windows is full of fuck
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2021-04-16T17:42:20 < karlp> heh,  8mA on this board. I guess the low power stuff isnt' enabled properly out of the box...
2021-04-16T17:55:04 < BrainDamage> it's low power for a car battery >.>
2021-04-16T17:59:21 < karlp> this is... terrible.
2021-04-16T17:59:28 < karlp> I thought these demos should be ~functional out of the box.
2021-04-16T17:59:41 < ventyl> ehm. actually, ther you have upper limit of like 5uA after some 30 minutes of "sleep"
2021-04-16T17:59:59 < ventyl> so you can put 100 of them in and not drain battery flat overnight
2021-04-16T18:03:31 < karlp> "fast" advertising: 3.43mA.  "low power" advertising: 3.33mA.
2021-04-16T18:03:40 < karlp> I think something's turned on still somewhere :)
2021-04-16T18:09:07 < karlp> ok, that's better, untouched factory demo code is 750uA with BT running.
2021-04-16T18:09:10 < karlp> that's more like it.
2021-04-16T18:09:15 < karlp> now, what have I fucked up :)
2021-04-16T18:09:32 < karlp> Today on karl monologues live dev, brought to you by covid19
2021-04-16T18:11:49 < jadew> speaking of low power, do any of you know what IC they use in those remote heat contors or other remote reading stuff that the electric company or the heating company uses?
2021-04-16T18:12:10 < jadew> in here we have these devices that are mounted on the radiators and they read the consumption from outside the building, for the entire building
2021-04-16T18:12:19 < jadew> they're rather small, and they last for 10 years
2021-04-16T18:12:46 < jadew> that's a lot of time for taking measurements, listening to the radio and TXing from time to time
2021-04-16T18:13:27 < ventyl> one company I know used AVR for that purpose
2021-04-16T18:13:51 < jadew> really?
2021-04-16T18:13:55 < ventyl> they had it complete with GSM and certified for use in gas-filled environments with battery lifespan guarranteed to be > 10 years
2021-04-16T18:14:24 < jadew> what kind of battery - do you know?
2021-04-16T18:14:50 < jadew> these devices are as big as an AC remote control
2021-04-16T18:14:53 < jadew> so... tiny
2021-04-16T18:15:35 < karlp> jadew: they're just lithium cr123 size iirc.
2021-04-16T18:15:36 < ventyl> nope, but it definitely wasn't anything like lead-adic battery, because the device had to be compact-ish
2021-04-16T18:15:55 < karlp> the key is "radios for remote reading, but don't even think abotu reading very often"
2021-04-16T18:16:09 < BrainDamage> jadew: they report on 433MHz ISM to a GSM concentrator
2021-04-16T18:16:10 < karlp> we hooked up to the IR data port on an electric meter here and were reading it every minute,
2021-04-16T18:16:25 < BrainDamage> I did RE mine
2021-04-16T18:16:34 < karlp> got a very firm wording frrom the vendor "um, you can't do that, you'll kill the  battery, it's not actually meant to be used very often"
2021-04-16T18:16:49 < BrainDamage> it reports once every 25h to the concentraion
2021-04-16T18:17:03 < BrainDamage> concentrator*
2021-04-16T18:17:04 < jadew> BrainDamage, ah ha, that makes sense
2021-04-16T18:17:06 < ventyl> this stuff was something similar
2021-04-16T18:17:08 < karlp> yeah, which is .... wayyyyyyyyy less power consumption that anything useful for atually monitoring beyond billing :)
2021-04-16T18:17:44 < ventyl> it only called home periodically or in case of some serious trouble as it was part of natural gas pumping station equipment monitoring system
2021-04-16T18:17:50 < ventyl> and some of them are really remote
2021-04-16T18:17:51 < jadew> well, this makes me think
2021-04-16T18:18:14 < jadew> I assume they keep an index, and they report the new index every time
2021-04-16T18:18:14 < BrainDamage> I imagine newer models will likely replace it with lora
2021-04-16T18:18:26 < BrainDamage> so that no local concentrator is necessary
2021-04-16T18:19:16 < karlp> no, just a different local concentrator...
2021-04-16T18:19:25 < jadew> farther away maybe
2021-04-16T18:19:26 < karlp> someone still has to run the lora infra
2021-04-16T18:19:37 < BrainDamage> I mean no local as in not owned by them
2021-04-16T18:19:45 < BrainDamage> renting a lora gateway
2021-04-16T18:20:10 < BrainDamage> you pay the gateway and you get coverage in a MAN
2021-04-16T18:20:25 < BrainDamage> without having to deploy your own concentrators
2021-04-16T18:20:42 < jadew> BrainDamage, did you follow what other people's consumption was?
2021-04-16T18:21:13 < jadew> you would only get IDs I assume, so you wouldn't know which is which, but it would still be interesting to see how you compare :)
2021-04-16T18:21:13 < BrainDamage> yes, i was curious to compare mine
2021-04-16T18:21:42 < BrainDamage> pretty sure if I tried hard I could tell who's who
2021-04-16T18:21:58 < jadew> you could triangualte I suppose
2021-04-16T18:22:00 < BrainDamage> all I have to do is correlate people presence with consumption
2021-04-16T18:22:07 < jadew> or that
2021-04-16T18:22:53 < BrainDamage> also i can tell you a 10$ way to scramble the measurement
2021-04-16T18:23:07 < BrainDamage> all you need is a desk fan pointed to the radiator
2021-04-16T18:23:08 < jadew> a noise source on 433?
2021-04-16T18:23:11 < jadew> ah
2021-04-16T18:23:24 < jadew> and it will report lower values?
2021-04-16T18:23:51 < BrainDamage> the devices estimate heat flux by hardcoding the heat exchanger's thermal resistivitty
2021-04-16T18:23:52 < jadew> or it's about the interference from the motor?
2021-04-16T18:24:17 < ventyl> additional convection from fan will actually increase radiator performance
2021-04-16T18:24:18 < BrainDamage> which is a function of deltaT, airspeed and the heatsink geometry
2021-04-16T18:24:30 < BrainDamage> by a factor of 100-1000
2021-04-16T18:24:46 < ventyl> that's why you have fans on car radiators which usually set off if car is standstill
2021-04-16T18:24:58 < jadew> yeah, I figured that, I was thinking that if you can cool it a little, it would report lower temperature, but I don't know how effective it can be cooled
2021-04-16T18:25:07 < ventyl> when in motion, air flow is sufficient to increase heat transfer a lot
2021-04-16T18:25:17 < ventyl> probably not much
2021-04-16T18:25:21 < BrainDamage> so the radiator gets so cold it's at room emp
2021-04-16T18:25:22 < BrainDamage> so deltaT is almost 0
2021-04-16T18:25:23 < BrainDamage> yet there's heat flux
2021-04-16T18:25:24 < BrainDamage> so the thing reads 0, yet it's warming the room
2021-04-16T18:25:32 < ventyl> it has plastic casing and sensor is at the bottom end, so it has thermal zone on its own
2021-04-16T18:25:39 < jadew> oh, I see what you mean
2021-04-16T18:25:49 < BrainDamage> the whol radiator becomes cold
2021-04-16T18:25:51 < jadew> you make the radiator more effective
2021-04-16T18:26:09 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-04-16T18:26:26 < BrainDamage> thermal resistance literally drops by 2-3 orders of magnitude
2021-04-16T18:26:29 < jadew> then you have to find a way to deal with the electricity bill :P
2021-04-16T18:26:41 < jadew> part 2) fixing the electricity bill
2021-04-16T18:26:44 < BrainDamage> that's nothing compared to heating
2021-04-16T18:26:50 < karlp> so. why do you have reporting devices individually on heaters anyway?
2021-04-16T18:26:51 < ventyl> lol, it has COP > 10 :>
2021-04-16T18:26:59 < karlp> is this some thing where you have different tarrifs for them?
2021-04-16T18:27:12 < karlp> and in exhcnage for that you agree to install vendor meters on everything?
2021-04-16T18:27:15 < jadew> karlp, they have different surface area
2021-04-16T18:27:16 < ventyl> that's stupid idea
2021-04-16T18:27:22 < ventyl> generally
2021-04-16T18:27:26 < jadew> so they radiate differently
2021-04-16T18:27:37 < karlp> right, but isn't this for billing?
2021-04-16T18:27:42 < ventyl> because whole building is essentially one thermal zone under one thermal envelope
2021-04-16T18:27:51 < jadew> it is, yeah, you're basically paying for the amount of heat they give you
2021-04-16T18:27:55 < ventyl> but these meters make people believe, they can "save" on heating
2021-04-16T18:28:07 < karlp> are these heaters electric or what?
2021-04-16T18:28:20 < jadew> nope, hot water runs through them
2021-04-16T18:28:22 < BrainDamage> no, gas powered, water circulating
2021-04-16T18:28:28 < BrainDamage> it's to bill people individually
2021-04-16T18:28:37 < karlp> oh, the gas is central to the building?
2021-04-16T18:28:42 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-04-16T18:28:43 < karlp> ahhh
2021-04-16T18:28:48 < karlp> problems...
2021-04-16T18:28:55 < karlp> with solutions obviously :)
2021-04-16T18:29:06 < ventyl> this is no solution :)
2021-04-16T18:29:17 < karlp> they don't just measure the hot water flow to each appartment though?Ð
2021-04-16T18:29:19 < karlp> seems far better
2021-04-16T18:29:20 < englishman> how do digital pots like AD5207 actually work? the datasheet describes an actual potentiometer with a wiper but i find it hard to believe there are two actual wipers inside
2021-04-16T18:29:21 < ventyl> because if BrainDamage came from island, he could turn his radiators off completely
2021-04-16T18:29:42 < ventyl> and let his neighbours heat his appartment
2021-04-16T18:29:54 < jadew> karlp, yeah, but they might run not so hot water through it
2021-04-16T18:29:56 < jadew> or cold water
2021-04-16T18:29:59 < ventyl> this would work particularly well if one of his neighbours was standardized granny
2021-04-16T18:30:09 < jadew> measuring actual heat makes it fair
2021-04-16T18:30:09 < karlp> they being who in this case jadew?
2021-04-16T18:30:16 < jadew> the company providing the heat
2021-04-16T18:30:31 < karlp> water+temp is pretty standard....
2021-04-16T18:30:44 < BrainDamage> jadew: you can absolutely measure heat by measuring deltaT between in & out of the apartmment
2021-04-16T18:30:46 < karlp> lots of water meters even measure return temp to calcuate energy delivered
2021-04-16T18:30:51 < karlp> ^^ 
2021-04-16T18:30:56 < ventyl> BrainDamage: you can
2021-04-16T18:30:56 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, that would be a better way of doing it
2021-04-16T18:31:07 < BrainDamage> and it's way more reliable than measuring individual radiators
2021-04-16T18:31:07 < karlp> seems far more reasonably thane sticking a bunch of meters on radiators internally and hoping they're all covered.
2021-04-16T18:31:08 < ventyl> can't, because you don't know the flow
2021-04-16T18:31:12 < BrainDamage> and you can't cheat it
2021-04-16T18:31:12 < ventyl> fucking ANSI keyboards
2021-04-16T18:31:14 < jadew> karlp, yeah, that would be better I think
2021-04-16T18:31:22 < BrainDamage> a flow meter is easy to addd
2021-04-16T18:31:35 < karlp> ventyl: water meter measures flow...?
2021-04-16T18:31:37 < ventyl> centrally it is, but not for each flat
2021-04-16T18:31:47 < ventyl> expensive and failure prone
2021-04-16T18:31:51 < karlp> failure prone?
2021-04-16T18:31:55 < ventyl> moving parts
2021-04-16T18:32:00 < BrainDamage> in fact, my building has a centralized energy meter
2021-04-16T18:32:23 < karlp> the what? it's a fucking flow meter, those are definitely more long life than 50k stick on wireless meters
2021-04-16T18:32:27 < jadew> we have water meters too, on each room that uses running water (kitchen and bathrooms)
2021-04-16T18:32:29 < ventyl> ok, maaaaybee for heating it wouldn't be such problem
2021-04-16T18:32:31 < BrainDamage> they check that energy out - energy in = users' consumption + some leak
2021-04-16T18:33:09 < ventyl> I wanted to get flow meter for utility water, where 0,3 - 0,6MPa is standard pressure. well, it is hard to obtain one
2021-04-16T18:33:17 < BrainDamage> so if i were to cheat on energy, they'd find that something is amiss on energy balance
2021-04-16T18:33:33 < BrainDamage> unless i started adding that to my neighs
2021-04-16T18:33:44 < ventyl> you would
2021-04-16T18:33:56 < ventyl> well, not in case of fan
2021-04-16T18:33:56 < jadew> BrainDamage, you could increase the "leakage" gradually
2021-04-16T18:34:18 < jadew> if it looks sort of like last month, then it's probably just some issue
2021-04-16T18:34:46 < BrainDamage> yeah, but you'd still have to limit your "saving"
2021-04-16T18:34:58 < BrainDamage> it's not realistic for an apartment to consume 0
2021-04-16T18:34:59 < ventyl> I doubt, they would be able to find anything useful
2021-04-16T18:35:00 < jadew> back when electricity meters were using that spinning disk, I had a friend who put very strong magnets on it
2021-04-16T18:35:08 < jadew> it worked quite well
2021-04-16T18:35:31 < ventyl> figures these meters give has usually quite large variance
2021-04-16T18:35:31 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, you just position yourself in the bottom consumers in the building
2021-04-16T18:35:33 < BrainDamage> even just a needle works
2021-04-16T18:35:36 < jadew> you don't have to be the last one
2021-04-16T18:36:03 < BrainDamage> also, there's total tally for energy metering too
2021-04-16T18:36:18 < BrainDamage> if you cheat a bit, they wouldn't catch you / care
2021-04-16T18:36:43 < karlp> BrainDamage: we have some new buldings here that made a deal to buy energy as a block, to get a "better rate" and then residents are magically charged based on their sqm or osmething instead
2021-04-16T18:36:44 < jadew> considering my led light bulbs stay on when I turn the light off, I'm sure they're used with quite a bit of leakage around here
2021-04-16T18:36:47 < BrainDamage> one day there was a surprise inspection because the balance didn't come out correct
2021-04-16T18:37:04 < karlp> insane, completely eliminates any incentive to actually save
2021-04-16T18:37:36 < jadew> BrainDamage, did they tell you what it was?
2021-04-16T18:37:41 < BrainDamage> at very least, they want to rule out a leak
2021-04-16T18:37:43 < BrainDamage> karlp: that's how old billing was
2021-04-16T18:37:45 < jadew> karlp, yeah, that's silly
2021-04-16T18:37:46 < BrainDamage> you paid a flat share based off your apt save
2021-04-16T18:37:59 < jadew> yep, same here, those were some hot winters
2021-04-16T18:38:02 < BrainDamage> err, apt area
2021-04-16T18:38:21 < jadew> nobody ever stopped their radiators
2021-04-16T18:38:32 < BrainDamage> same here
2021-04-16T18:38:57 < BrainDamage> sometimes I had to turn off my radiators, because the heat leak from neigh made it intolerable
2021-04-16T18:39:06 < ventyl> karlp: well, you can get most savings from running heating system as it was designed. if you start "adjusting" it, all you get is same amount of warmth for much higher energy input
2021-04-16T18:39:13 < BrainDamage> 27 deg indoors is starting to get past comfortable
2021-04-16T18:39:13 < jadew> BrainDamage, I would just open the window lol
2021-04-16T18:39:34 < jadew> didn't want to get a leak from moving something that wasn't moved in years
2021-04-16T18:39:45 < BrainDamage> then you have 0deg air whirling in
2021-04-16T18:39:57 < karlp> ventyl: not sure what you're replying to there sorry.
2021-04-16T18:40:13 < ventyl> karlp: central billing vs saving incentive
2021-04-16T18:40:34 < karlp> I was explicitly talking about electricity there.
2021-04-16T18:40:57 < karlp> but even for radiant heaters, there's still the "turn down the heater" vs "open the window" like jadew says
2021-04-16T18:41:04 < jadew> BrainDamage, I remember at my grandmother's the tap was painted over
2021-04-16T18:41:50 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I actually open windows slightly during the winter so even -20C air is ok if it's not too windy. Paying flat rate for heating.
2021-04-16T18:41:53 < ventyl> karlp: ideally, and realistically, you shouldn't touch your radiator valve. never.
2021-04-16T18:42:15 < karlp> that's complete bullshit
2021-04-16T18:42:17 < ventyl> since '70s equithermic regulation of used almost in every new installation
2021-04-16T18:42:30 < ventyl> which should cover for outside temperature changes
2021-04-16T18:42:40 < ventyl> like, 95% of them
2021-04-16T18:42:45 < karlp> [citation needed]
2021-04-16T18:42:50 < karlp> [must match factos on ground]
2021-04-16T18:43:13 < ventyl> solar gains and gains from inside energy use should be covered by thermostatic valve header
2021-04-16T18:43:23 < BrainDamage> ventyl: you're assuming quite a feew things
2021-04-16T18:43:35 < karlp> is this the same world where all electricl wiring uses the colour codes per the standards?
2021-04-16T18:43:37 < ventyl> welp, I could link you a series of twelve articles on this topic, but they are in Czech language
2021-04-16T18:43:38 < BrainDamage> for one, that inner building isolation is negligible
2021-04-16T18:43:49 < BrainDamage> here's not negligible
2021-04-16T18:44:12 < BrainDamage> so the whole building's not a single thermal envelope
2021-04-16T18:44:16 < ventyl> BrainDamage: well, firstmost and the most important assumption here is that people would use the building according to hygienic standards
2021-04-16T18:44:30 < karlp> I don't touch mine often, but we definitely turn them down in summer and up in winter.
2021-04-16T18:44:36 < karlp> it's certainly not a daily thing.
2021-04-16T18:44:38 < ventyl> which mostly means between 19 and 23 centigrades C
2021-04-16T18:45:19 < ventyl> karlp: actually, this was quite working stuff until thermostatic valve headers became a commonplace
2021-04-16T18:45:45 < BrainDamage> here thermostatic valves made the air tolerable
2021-04-16T18:46:04 < ventyl> it is possible to perform static calculations of how heating system has to be set up and how warm water you have to run through it to keep constant inside temperature
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2021-04-16T18:46:41 < ventyl> thermostatic valves completely changed how heating systems behave and heating companies simply gave up
2021-04-16T18:46:45 < BrainDamage> it was a single serial wiring, having hot water at thhe end of the series meant scorching hot at the start
2021-04-16T18:47:04 < ventyl> they do these calculations because law forces them to [to save energy], but the effort is effectively useless
2021-04-16T18:47:47 < BrainDamage> and I was at the start
2021-04-16T18:48:04 < ventyl> i had to perform them for my house after I bought it, because whole heating system was completely fucked up
2021-04-16T18:48:32 < ventyl> one day I returned from work and got kicked into face by 70 *C hot radiator
2021-04-16T18:48:41 < BrainDamage> thermostatic valves make the load for the heater noncostant
2021-04-16T18:48:55 < BrainDamage> but if you have enough users, the average is constant-ish
2021-04-16T18:49:10 < ventyl> it shouldn't change a lot
2021-04-16T18:49:14 < BrainDamage> so you get a hot water tank and you just adjust for constant temp
2021-04-16T18:49:32 < ventyl> here headers were reasonating
2021-04-16T18:49:38 < BrainDamage> and let the thermostatic heads sink loads as necessary
2021-04-16T18:49:45 < ventyl> from fully opened to fully closed, each radiator at different phase
2021-04-16T18:55:55 < ventyl> BrainDamage: input temperature at the start of series should be a function of deltaT between outside and inside
2021-04-16T18:56:21 < BrainDamage> and that's how it was
2021-04-16T18:56:45 < BrainDamage> but remember, the radiators were wired in series, not parallel
2021-04-16T18:56:51 < ventyl> that's ok
2021-04-16T18:56:58 < ventyl> it is called "single pipe heating system"
2021-04-16T18:57:00 < BrainDamage> so closing one radiator meant closing water for everyone
2021-04-16T18:57:15 < ventyl> you start with smallest radiator fed by the warmed water at the beginning of series
2021-04-16T18:57:32 < ventyl> and end up with fucking huge one fed by coldest water at the end
2021-04-16T18:57:57 < ventyl> s/warmed/warmest/
2021-04-16T18:58:00 < BrainDamage> that may not work for practical and/or aesthetic limitations
2021-04-16T18:58:35 < ventyl> well, those radiators definitely shouldn't be of same size
2021-04-16T18:59:21 < ventyl> unless rooms down the pipe were smaller
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2021-04-16T20:02:00 < karlp> 5.7mA to 4.3mA jst by switching on the smps for the core,
2021-04-16T20:02:10 < karlp> which has a comment in the demo code of "not supported by cubemx yet" :)
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2021-04-16T20:09:12 < zyp> haha
2021-04-16T20:10:11 < zyp> hmm
2021-04-16T20:10:24 < zyp> what's the smallest stm32 with ethernet?
2021-04-16T20:10:52 < Xogium> er, maybe f4 serie ? Not sure
2021-04-16T20:11:12 < jpa-> i'll start stmcufinder for you, because i like it so much
2021-04-16T20:11:29 < Xogium> is that really a thing ?
2021-04-16T20:11:34 < Xogium> :O
2021-04-16T20:11:55 < zyp> or rather, I think maybe my question is, can I get ethernet in a smaller or cheaper part than f407v?
2021-04-16T20:12:06 < Xogium> I usually just check the st website but it seems to have some accessibility issues
2021-04-16T20:12:08 < jpa-> physically smallest is STM32F427 with UFBGA169 7x7mm :P
2021-04-16T20:12:31 < zyp> 0.5mm bga options are out :)
2021-04-16T20:12:40 < zyp> but I can consider 0.8mm and up
2021-04-16T20:13:29 < jpa-> STM32F107 comes in LQFP64 (10x10mm), if you want to party like it is 2010
2021-04-16T20:14:06 < jpa-> STM32H730 in TFBGA100 (8x8mm) is an option also
2021-04-16T20:14:07 < zyp> no, that's not happening
2021-04-16T20:14:15 < zyp> sounds expensive
2021-04-16T20:14:26 < zyp> F1 is not happening, H7 sounds expensive
2021-04-16T20:14:30 < jpa-> that's actually the cheapest according to mcufinder
2021-04-16T20:14:41 < zyp> cheaper than f407v?
2021-04-16T20:14:49 < jpa-> yeah, but i think it may be wrong..
2021-04-16T20:15:19 < jpa-> looks like it is cheaper on digikey also
2021-04-16T20:15:44 < zyp> ah, small flash
2021-04-16T20:16:03 < jpa-> $13 for the unobtanium STM32F407, $7 for the unobtanium STM32H730
2021-04-16T20:16:53 < jpa-> H7 series is actually quite cheap in general, even the large flash ones
2021-04-16T20:17:05 < zyp> surprisingly so
2021-04-16T20:18:42 < Xogium> er stm32h730 are still in stock on mouser
2021-04-16T20:18:45 < Xogium> for what its worth
2021-04-16T20:18:55 < jpa-> some packages yeah
2021-04-16T20:19:10 < Xogium> rather cheap indeed
2021-04-16T20:19:52 < jpa-> nice thing is that even the dirt cheap 128kB flash ones have 564 kB ram
2021-04-16T20:20:08 < jpa-> and can run code from quadspi
2021-04-16T20:20:12 < Xogium> that's huge amount of ram for a mcu, right ?
2021-04-16T20:20:46 < jpa-> it is large, though some H7s have a full megabyte
2021-04-16T20:21:06 < Xogium> well there's the f413zh too, not as cheap of course, don't think it got ethernet. But has 1.5 mb of flash, though 320 kb of ram max
2021-04-16T20:21:27 < zyp> you can get f427 with 2M of flash
2021-04-16T20:21:37 < jpa-> and H7 with 2MB flash also
2021-04-16T20:22:05 < Xogium> heh I guess its why some try to run linux on them
2021-04-16T20:22:20 < Xogium> I mean not sure why you'd do that, better choose a real mpu
2021-04-16T20:22:33 < jpa-> with quadspi flash & external sdram, H7 is perfectly capable of running linux
2021-04-16T20:22:43 < jpa-> but because of lack of mmu, porting software is a bit annoying
2021-04-16T20:23:05 < zyp> and why bother :)
2021-04-16T20:23:17 < Xogium> yeah that's what I was thinking
2021-04-16T20:23:34 < zyp> ah, h730 also does hyperbus
2021-04-16T20:24:00 < zyp> not that I'm interested in it now, but nice to know
2021-04-16T20:24:20 < jpa-> a reason to bother could be e.g. if you are upgrdman and want to connect wifi dongle and not develop custom drivers, but otherwise don't need full linux
2021-04-16T20:24:32 < Xogium> lol fair
2021-04-16T20:24:35 < zyp> true
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2021-04-16T21:01:08 < Steffann> I recall qyx had great fun running lunix...
2021-04-16T21:02:41 < karlp> hrm, I don't feel like i've _added_ endough, but I'm already at 1.2mA. vs the 600uA of the demo
2021-04-16T21:02:55  * karlp needs to re-calculate the datasheet, see what I should expect here... : |
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2021-04-16T21:21:15 < qyx> Steffann: yeah it was working basically until I tried to run any shell script
2021-04-16T21:38:14 < aandrew> hm
2021-04-16T21:38:51 < aandrew> my prescaler is off by like 3; the can-wiki site says I want 24 (that's taking into account the fact that HAL does -1), but i Have to use value 21 or my bit itme isn't 8us
2021-04-16T21:38:59 < aandrew> maybe my input clock isn't what I think it is
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2021-04-16T21:48:32 < aandrew> yep that was it
2021-04-16T21:48:35 < aandrew> 42MHz not 48MHz
2021-04-16T21:48:54 < Steffann> heh yw for rubber ducking
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2021-04-16T21:52:38 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-16T21:55:11 < aandrew> Console initialized.
2021-04-16T21:55:11 < aandrew> (rc=0) $ DeviceNet network status changed: 0xffffffff -> 0x00000000
2021-04-16T21:55:11 < aandrew> ** Duplicate MAC detected, going offline! **
2021-04-16T21:55:11 < aandrew> Module offline (commFault()
2021-04-16T21:55:12 < aandrew> DeviceNet network status changed: 0x00000000 -> 0x00000004
2021-04-16T21:55:14 < aandrew> dn_timeout: 0xffffffff
2021-04-16T21:55:16 < aandrew> dn_timeout: 0xfffffffe
2021-04-16T21:55:19 < aandrew> yay
2021-04-16T21:55:21 < aandrew> that's exactly what I wnted it to do
2021-04-16T21:55:42 < aandrew> now let's see if it receives properly
2021-04-16T21:55:51 < qyx> are you canning?
2021-04-16T21:55:57 < qyx> which stm32?
2021-04-16T21:56:22 < aandrew> Got a duplicate MAC request, sending response
2021-04-16T21:56:24 < aandrew> yay
2021-04-16T21:56:24 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-16T21:56:30 < aandrew> STM32F407
2021-04-16T21:56:36 < aandrew> just a dev board I have handy
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2021-04-16T22:11:25 < aandrew> ok, so the devicenet slave library is doing the very very very minimal bits so far, I don't have a master/scanner to test further with, but this is my code from 20y ago which worked, and since I didn't change anything other than the hardware interface it should work
2021-04-16T22:11:35 < aandrew> now I need to see what's involved in creating a scanner so I can open a connection
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2021-04-16T22:12:50 < aandrew> I think I have to go up to CIP to figure out that part though
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2021-04-16T22:14:21 < mawk> all hail dongs_ 
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2021-04-16T22:26:14 < Steffann> who is dongs_?
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2021-04-16T22:29:02 < PaulFertser> Dongs's dong became _ flaccid :(
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2021-04-16T22:41:05 < Steffann> He got his dongs stolen PaulFertser. Now he is only on Telegram
2021-04-16T22:42:50 < PaulFertser> I miss him a bit.
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2021-04-16T22:44:43 < Steffann> You were missed on Telegram a while back PaulFertser. Someone dared to say DB-9 connector
2021-04-16T22:45:14 < effractur> lol
2021-04-16T22:45:35 < PaulFertser> Steffann: oh you 
2021-04-16T22:53:43 < zyp> :D
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 17 2021
2021-04-17T00:24:43 < fenugrec> "code from 20y ago" - heh, I was just working on a project I coded in 2005, and it's weird to read it again after so long.. The comments are... annoyingly verbose
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2021-04-17T00:56:42 < bitmask> 4 syringes injected, now I just gotta wait
2021-04-17T00:58:28 < Rajko> into your eyeballs ?
2021-04-17T00:58:41 < bitmask> i wish, nah just my stomach
2021-04-17T00:59:06 < bitmask> coulda done legs, may try that next time
2021-04-17T00:59:27 < Rajko> what for
2021-04-17T00:59:27 < Rajko> https://twitter.com/finessafudges/status/1382764568703827968?s=21
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2021-04-17T00:59:39 < bitmask> humira for Crohn's
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2021-04-17T01:54:06 < englishman> fenugrec: I learned a word yesterday. aliquoter
2021-04-17T02:03:47 < jadew> speaking of pfizer, I got my second dose today
2021-04-17T02:04:20 < jadew> shoulder hurts - first time I didn't feel like that
2021-04-17T02:04:42 < jadew> I'm not sure if it's from the vaccine or because of how it penetrated the muscle
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2021-04-17T02:11:44 < jadew> the thing about the repeat vaccination is annoying tho
2021-04-17T02:11:49 < jadew> I don't want another shot
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2021-04-17T02:48:39 < fenugrec> englishman, ... someone who prepares aliexpress quotes ?
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2021-04-17T03:03:02 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-04-17T03:11:02 < karlp> eveningD
2021-04-17T03:11:10 < kakium69> musics
2021-04-17T03:11:15 < karlp> what's an aliquoter?
2021-04-17T03:11:18 < karlp> oh, music?
2021-04-17T03:11:20 < karlp> um...
2021-04-17T03:11:45 < karlp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6oZGThwis
2021-04-17T03:11:58 < kakium69> karlp: is aliquoter some dongs language?
2021-04-17T03:12:06 < karlp> no idea, new to me.
2021-04-17T03:12:29 < fenugrec> some australian musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udyYluSPBbc
2021-04-17T03:12:48 < kakium69> karlp: I like this
2021-04-17T03:13:10 < karlp> unavailable, but yeah, king gizzard is pretty rad
2021-04-17T03:13:45 < kakium69> fenugrec: nope -youtube
2021-04-17T03:14:05 < kakium69> nope. regards, youtubes
2021-04-17T03:14:16 < kakium69> "not available"
2021-04-17T03:14:19 < karlp> yar, same here. you tube loves you *kiss kiss*
2021-04-17T03:14:30 < fenugrec> ? wtf. let me see
2021-04-17T03:14:39 < kakium69> I have 4000 favourites in tubes
2021-04-17T03:14:40 < fenugrec> https://kinggizzard.bandcamp.com/album/nonagon-infinity-2
2021-04-17T03:14:42 < karlp> it's ok, we know king gizzard is rad.
2021-04-17T03:14:59 < fenugrec> yeah, just for the benefit of the other idlers in the chan who need some education
2021-04-17T03:15:12 < karlp> anyway, subnautica time.
2021-04-17T03:16:44 < kakium69> karlp: I have heard this band before but not this song
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2021-04-17T03:21:15 < karlp> it was a b-side
2021-04-17T03:21:20 < karlp> it's one of my faves though
2021-04-17T03:21:29 < kakium69> it's shoegazy-ish
2021-04-17T03:21:36 < karlp> yes...
2021-04-17T03:21:38 < kakium69> that's what I like about it
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2021-04-17T04:36:08 < englishman> karlp: it's french, it means to mete out equal quantities
2021-04-17T04:36:57 < englishman> it's actually an anglicisme, from aliquot
2021-04-17T04:37:08 < fenugrec> ces maudits anglais
2021-04-17T04:37:29 < englishman> saperlipopette
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2021-04-17T13:54:45 < Steffann> Welcome Mangy_Dog any innovations lately?
2021-04-17T13:59:21 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://imgur.com/a/7sNvzQ8
2021-04-17T14:01:52 < BrainDamage> re: aliquot, it's likely from latin sinc italian has aliquota too
2021-04-17T14:02:36 < BrainDamage> and it's widely used in commercial contexts
2021-04-17T14:09:06 < Mangy_Dog> no innovations just hemorages
2021-04-17T14:09:14 < Mangy_Dog> still working on tricorder stuff
2021-04-17T14:09:28 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337706779708489728/832724398787526656/1618607354136.jpg
2021-04-17T14:15:49 < Steffann> So I order this toy from aliexpress. Recieved this: https://imgur.com/a/AA6LRFQ . My first reaction was... Thats not what i ordered. lol
2021-04-17T14:18:21 < Mangy_Dog> oh mai
2021-04-17T14:18:37 < Mangy_Dog> what did you mean to buy?
2021-04-17T14:18:38 < zyp> well, it's a «wowstick», what did you expect?
2021-04-17T14:18:46 < zyp> Mangy_Dog, a wowstick
2021-04-17T14:19:04 < Mangy_Dog> so you meant to buy THAT kind of toy?
2021-04-17T14:19:22 < Steffann> it's actually an electric screwdriver, Mangy_Dog. Its your dirty mind that plays tricks on you.
2021-04-17T14:19:35 < zyp> emphasis on screw
2021-04-17T14:20:13 < Mangy_Dog> its not my dirty mind playing tricks it looks preceisly what it looks like
2021-04-17T14:23:07 < Steffann> i bet it was intentional.
2021-04-17T14:23:59 < Steffann> https://imgur.com/a/7VXiU94 that is whats in the box Mangy_Dog ;)
2021-04-17T14:29:52 < Steffann> So your tricoder stuff comes together? Much work left?
2021-04-17T14:29:56 < Steffann> and... does it work?
2021-04-17T14:34:48 < t4nk_freenode> first contact is still 22years away for us, no way to tell if it works I'd say!
2021-04-17T14:34:56 < t4nk_freenode> 42 years even
2021-04-17T14:42:06 < Mangy_Dog> wasnt first contact in the 21 hundreds?
2021-04-17T14:42:17 < Mangy_Dog> i forgot
2021-04-17T14:42:21 < Mangy_Dog> umm
2021-04-17T14:42:23 < Mangy_Dog> work wise
2021-04-17T14:42:36 < Mangy_Dog> i still need to install the main body electronics in the other 2 build sim doing
2021-04-17T14:42:42 < Mangy_Dog> and then i have painting to do
2021-04-17T14:42:52 < Mangy_Dog> and 32 or 3 weeks worth of more programming to do
2021-04-17T14:46:14 < t4nk_freenode> just ask someone to do it for you! ;)
2021-04-17T14:47:16 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I sorta looked it up.. it seems the fans aren't in agreement on the exact date either
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2021-04-17T14:49:55 < t4nk_freenode> ooooobie-dooooobieeeeeeee
2021-04-17T14:50:10 < t4nk_freenode> do-Waaaaaa, doo-waaaaaaadowaaaaaa
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2021-04-17T18:22:11 < karlp> so did aliquot lead to allocate? 
2021-04-17T18:36:32 < englishman> looks like aliquot's etymology is aliquot vs. alloco for allocate
2021-04-17T18:45:25 < qyx> so
2021-04-17T18:45:30 < qyx> ##covid32, vaccinating 40+
2021-04-17T18:45:54 < qyx> hopefully my turn very soon
2021-04-17T18:48:16 < Steffann> You're old
2021-04-17T18:51:37 < qyx> not that old, under 35
2021-04-17T19:10:47 < Mangy_Dog> Electronics nearly installed! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538814618106331139/833010967733600256/1618675681268.jpg
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2021-04-17T19:34:51 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56781556
2021-04-17T19:35:02 < Laurenceb> when you read it you'll shit bricks
2021-04-17T19:35:24 < Laurenceb> >first black guy on the moon
2021-04-17T19:35:58 < Laurenceb> keeek imagine being the first black guy on the moon, and nasa actually announcing it as that on livestream
2021-04-17T19:37:10 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-04-17T19:38:28 < specing> "Another goal of the programme will be to land the first person of colour on the Moon."
2021-04-17T19:38:30 < specing> that's racist
2021-04-17T19:40:56 < Laurenceb> its funny cuz it sounds literally racist to the black guy they choose
2021-04-17T19:41:05 < Laurenceb> >ur just here cuz ur black
2021-04-17T19:41:35 < Laurenceb> imagine if china announced they would launch a mission "with some white guy onboard"
2021-04-17T19:45:33 < Laurenceb> inb4 china lands on the moon and laughs at muricans whilst also btfoing their project goal
2021-04-17T19:52:02 < specing> "This vehicle will carry the next man and the first woman down to the lunar surface "
2021-04-17T19:52:06 < specing> It's also sexist
2021-04-17T19:53:12 < specing> Laurenceb: "China establishes Uyghur concentration camp on the moon"
2021-04-17T19:54:10 < Laurenceb> loll
2021-04-17T19:54:52 < Laurenceb> specing: not sexist if its a breeding colony/ lunar rape dungeon
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2021-04-17T20:06:37 < specing> Laurenceb: I hope whites sign up for those job postings and then sue for discrimination
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2021-04-17T20:07:46 < Laurenceb> wonder if Musk will use his ""star""ship as a rape dungeon like that submarine guy
2021-04-17T20:08:00 < Laurenceb> he used to hang out on #highaltitude btw
2021-04-17T20:09:33 < Laurenceb> he was a jerk who brainwashed n00bs into building his crazy projects for him, then he would take the credit, he got b& from several irc channels for grooming people to work for free
2021-04-17T20:11:13 < Laurenceb> so basically Elon Musk
2021-04-17T20:12:11 < qyx> who, the nordic submarine killer?
2021-04-17T20:12:41 < qyx> what nic did he use?
2021-04-17T20:12:44 < qyx> *nick
2021-04-17T20:47:53 < Laurenceb> I cant remember, its been a few years
2021-04-17T20:48:10 < Laurenceb> everyone already knew he was bad news by then
2021-04-17T20:56:06 < Steffann>  so when will you start killing journalists Laurenceb?
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2021-04-17T23:56:38 < catphish> morning humans
2021-04-17T23:59:52 < Steffann_> Gooday sir.
--- Day changed Sun Apr 18 2021
2021-04-18T00:11:37 < fenugrec> heh, this VFD has way too many busbars... was a pain to put back together https://ibb.co/PYS9sB6
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2021-04-18T03:30:24 < brdb> this is strange, my stm32f0 disco board flipped out when i launching the salae logic analyzer software and now it's just slowly blinking the COM led and won't let me program it / connect to it via OpenOCD
2021-04-18T03:36:59 < brdb> rebooting the laptop fixed it, how odd
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2021-04-18T06:07:07 < brdb> hmm im wondering how i can maximize my dead time generation to be significantly higher for something like a 60 Hz h-bridge
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2021-04-18T14:02:25 < BrainDamage> maximixe /
2021-04-18T14:02:28 < BrainDamage> ?
2021-04-18T14:03:07 < karlp> heh https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002332274629.html
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2021-04-18T15:42:08 < jadew> anyone aware of a good lead test kit?
2021-04-18T15:42:29 < jadew> I have lots of PCBs that I didn't make with lead free finish and I'm not sure which is which
2021-04-18T15:42:33 < jadew> I want to get rid of them
2021-04-18T15:44:40 < jadew> I guess I could do the melting point test, but that's going to be difficult to observe on an unpopulated board
2021-04-18T15:46:04 < Streaker> rub it with your finger.
2021-04-18T15:46:15 < Streaker> if it turns black, its lead.
2021-04-18T15:46:48 < jadew> why is it turning black? some reaction with the oil on my skin?
2021-04-18T15:47:08 < Streaker> no, the lead comes out of the alloy. 
2021-04-18T15:47:14 < jadew> maybe I can use just the oil or some other substance?
2021-04-18T15:47:22 < jadew> I see
2021-04-18T15:48:10 < jadew> I'll give it a try
2021-04-18T15:48:14 < jadew> that would be great if it worked
2021-04-18T15:49:01 < qyx> https://www.amazon.com/Webetop-Instant-Painted-Surfaces-Ceramics/dp/B08HGXYCC2/ref=pd_sbs_2?pd_rd_w=REjqU&pf_rd_p=2419a049-62bf-452e-b0d0-ca5b7e35a7b4&pf_rd_r=KD8N1RECFXYQJP6ZNF3C&pd_rd_r=491bed8d-27c3-4f83-b46b-6212b40fccf8&pd_rd_wg=MVB1i&pd_rd_i=B08HGXYCC2&psc=1
2021-04-18T15:49:05 < qyx> no gud?
2021-04-18T15:49:31 < jadew> don't know, it could work
2021-04-18T15:49:47 < BrainDamage> lick it for few years and see if you get heavy metal poisoning
2021-04-18T15:50:02 < qyx> whoa I can confirm
2021-04-18T15:50:06 < qyx> Streaker: works
2021-04-18T15:50:45 < jadew> qyx, does it work with nitrile gloves?
2021-04-18T15:51:05 < jadew> I don't want to rub all those boards with my bare hands
2021-04-18T15:53:34 < qyx> jadew: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NY8bt
2021-04-18T15:54:12 < jadew> rubbed it with paper?
2021-04-18T15:54:13 < qyx> I used about the same force and rubbed it 20 times
2021-04-18T15:54:22 < qyx> yeah
2021-04-18T15:54:40 < jadew> ok, let me give it a try on PCBs
2021-04-18T16:02:40 < jadew> all PCBs seem to blacken the paper
2021-04-18T16:03:13 < jadew> the leaded ones could be worse, but it's difficult to tell because the exposed surface is not the same
2021-04-18T16:03:38 < Streaker> could it be dirt?
2021-04-18T16:03:44 < jadew> or it could be dirt
2021-04-18T16:04:28 < jadew> there has to be some solution I can prepare myself to just put a drop there and if it turns a certain color I know it's lead
2021-04-18T16:04:38 < Streaker> ask in ##chemistry
2021-04-18T16:04:42 < jadew> good idea
2021-04-18T16:04:45 < jadew> thanks
2021-04-18T16:06:22 < qyx> and report back if you find out what the solution is
2021-04-18T16:06:31 < jadew> I will
2021-04-18T16:06:32 < qyx> I googled for 10 seconds
2021-04-18T16:09:43 < jadew> http://www.home-health-chemistry.com/Lead-Detection.html
2021-04-18T16:09:51 < jadew> Lead Indicator: Sodium rhodizonate
2021-04-18T16:11:17 < qyx> doesn't sound like a common household compound
2021-04-18T16:11:28 < jadew> does not
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2021-04-18T16:13:20 < qyx> • Excess amounts of tin may interfere with the test (relevant when testing solder).
2021-04-18T16:27:42 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002220958033.html
2021-04-18T16:27:49 < jadew> this is probably the best solution
2021-04-18T16:28:32 < jadew> not sure why the head is at the top of the bottle
2021-04-18T16:28:38 < jadew> someone's a moron
2021-04-18T16:43:15 < Streaker>  this is the same sodium rhodizonate that has a problem with tin
2021-04-18T16:43:37 < jadew> so it's not a good solution then?
2021-04-18T16:44:07 < jadew> maybe I can do a controlled scratch test
2021-04-18T16:44:16 < jadew> with a fixed weight
2021-04-18T16:44:53 < jadew> oh, controlled punch test that would be easier
2021-04-18T16:44:56 < Streaker> https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/mfwpif/does_a_sodium_rhodizonate_test_indicate_more_than/
2021-04-18T16:44:59 < jadew> put a punch on an unpopulated pad
2021-04-18T16:45:04 < jadew> load it with 1 kg
2021-04-18T16:45:17 < jadew> analyze depth of penetration?
2021-04-18T16:46:21 < jadew> Streaker, yeah, sounds like it won't work
2021-04-18T16:46:29 < jadew> maybe I can use something to detect silver then?
2021-04-18T16:46:38 < jadew> anyway
2021-04-18T16:46:42 < jadew> I'll try the punch thing
2021-04-18T16:46:44 < jadew> see if it works
2021-04-18T16:53:01 < jadew> might have found something
2021-04-18T16:53:08 < jadew> running more tests
2021-04-18T16:55:41 < jadew> I didn't
2021-04-18T16:56:08 < jadew> I guess I can do the temperature test under the microscope 
2021-04-18T17:04:22 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210418_170238.jpg   this is what paper test gave for me, there is a difference but some mark even from jlcpcb's supposedly RoHS boards
2021-04-18T17:05:43 < jpa-> but can't you just check your order history to know what you've ordered with what settings?
2021-04-18T17:08:02 < jadew> jpa-, I've ordered so many things tho...
2021-04-18T17:08:25 < jadew> if the pcb house would show the board I ordered, that one would be one thing, but they don't
2021-04-18T17:08:57 < jpa-> well then
2021-04-18T17:09:16 < jpa-> silly of them not to print the type on invoice or order confirmation
2021-04-18T17:09:46 < jadew> they might have, but who knows which is which?
2021-04-18T17:09:53 < jadew> I've ordered these across several years
2021-04-18T17:11:04 < jadew> hmm, I could see if I still have some in the original packaging and cross reference that
2021-04-18T17:14:41 < jpa-> you don't know which design is which?
2021-04-18T17:16:37 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-18T17:16:53 < jadew> I have like 20 designs I have to sort through
2021-04-18T17:17:52 < jadew> already put away more than that
2021-04-18T17:20:50 < qyx> not printing semver versions on your pcbs?
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2021-04-18T17:24:34 < jadew> not on test pcbs
2021-04-18T17:26:58 < jadew> found one
2021-04-18T17:27:03 < jadew> leaded :/
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2021-04-18T17:57:29 < jadew> side effects that I had from second dose of Pfizer vaccine: drowsiness, very slight headache
2021-04-18T17:57:56 < jadew> also, about one day after the vaccine lymph gland under my armpit started to hurt (probably swollen) 
2021-04-18T17:58:04 < jadew> still hurts
2021-04-18T17:58:13 < jadew> not particularly bad, but enough to notice it
2021-04-18T17:58:34 < jadew> I wonder if I shouldn't have had the second dose in the other arm
2021-04-18T18:02:04 < jadew> I suppose exercise will alleviate this issue since I think the lymph moves when you move (not sure tho)
2021-04-18T18:02:15 < jadew> so probably if I move a lot, it will drain the gland
2021-04-18T18:14:23 < Steffann_> Side effects or .. coincidence ? :P
2021-04-18T18:15:02 < jadew> haha Steffann_ 
2021-04-18T18:20:18 < BrainDamage> very likely side effects, but honestly pretty minor and they all go away ~48h after exposure
2021-04-18T18:20:39 < BrainDamage> it's when they persist that you have to be concerned
2021-04-18T18:22:05 < jadew> apparently the lymph node one can last for a couple of weeks
2021-04-18T18:22:17 < jadew> but yeah, not that big of a deal
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2021-04-18T19:04:43 < zyp> 14:42:29 < jadew> I have lots of PCBs that I didn't make with lead free finish and I'm not sure which is which
2021-04-18T19:04:46 < zyp> 14:42:33 < jadew> I want to get rid of them
2021-04-18T19:04:50 < zyp> just throw out anything that's not ENIG :p
2021-04-18T19:06:14 < jadew> I'm not using ENIG tho
2021-04-18T19:07:01 < jadew> I haven't verified this, but there are claims made that ENIG has higher losses at high frequency than other finishes
2021-04-18T19:07:19 < jadew> so I just stayed away
2021-04-18T19:10:33 < englishman> yes due to the thick nickel plating
2021-04-18T19:10:50 < jadew> I thought it's because of the surface roughness
2021-04-18T19:10:53 < englishman> but unless you are maths'ing it, not sure you will see any difference
2021-04-18T19:11:26 < emeb_mac> damn - your ENIG PCBs are no good for all the millimeter wavelength RF stuff you do.
2021-04-18T19:11:31 < emeb_mac> oh wait...
2021-04-18T19:12:20 < jadew> emeb_mac, they seem to have a noticeable effect from the low GHz region
2021-04-18T19:13:03 < englishman> someone tried to tell me that noone who had taken the vaccine had died
2021-04-18T19:13:11 < englishman> it was really easy to prove them wrong.
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2021-04-18T19:13:12 < jadew> again, haven't looked into it much, but why settle if better and cheaper is available?
2021-04-18T19:13:14 < englishman> just read the rest reports.
2021-04-18T19:13:28 < englishman> one person who was vaccinated, was struck by lightning and died.
2021-04-18T19:13:31 < englishman> wake up, sheeple
2021-04-18T19:14:25 < emeb_mac> you mean the vax doesn't confer immortality?
2021-04-18T19:14:42 < emeb_mac> screw that. not getting it then.
2021-04-18T19:15:12 < jadew> can't wait to go have a coffee and a stake in two weeks
2021-04-18T19:15:55 < jadew> and have someone serve them to me without requesting sexual favors in return
2021-04-18T19:16:57 < jadew> I really miss going out
2021-04-18T19:18:31 < emeb_mac> what's to miss - we've been continuing to get take-out a few times per week the whole time. Not like sitting around in a restaurant is that big of a deal.
2021-04-18T19:19:00 < jadew> I haven't had take-out food either
2021-04-18T19:19:19 < jadew> my wife got really good at cooking tho
2021-04-18T19:19:42 < jadew> I think her pizza is now better than what you get at a pizza place
2021-04-18T19:21:02 < jadew> but I would still love a shawarma
2021-04-18T19:21:06 < emeb_mac> well, there are a few places we didn't take-out from because the stuff they serve doesn't travel well. I am looking fwd to getting back there.
2021-04-18T19:21:54 < emeb_mac> but we've got a middle-eastern joint about 5min away that we get lamb kabob & baklava from often.
2021-04-18T19:22:38 < emeb_mac> no different than going to the grocery store (in fact it's in a grocery store)
2021-04-18T19:22:44 < jadew> yeah, we've been a little on the extreme end, only packaged stuff, disinfected all the groceries, etc
2021-04-18T19:24:19 < jadew> I did go out tho and was kinda lax regarding the mask when outside
2021-04-18T19:24:27 < emeb_mac> yep. everyone has their own approach. We never went that far - just wear mask when away and wash hands when getting back home.
2021-04-18T19:24:30 < jadew> but never to a restaurant or anything like that
2021-04-18T19:26:13 < emeb_mac> but we haven't visited w/ anyone since Feb '20. Just phonecalls & zooms.
2021-04-18T19:26:52 < effractur> have not been in a shop sinds nov i thnk
2021-04-18T19:27:13 < jadew> we've been to my mother in law, because she started picking up our son from school so we figured that if she gets something, we get something anyway
2021-04-18T19:27:31 < effractur> and often stay inside for weeks on end
2021-04-18T19:28:45 < jadew> I'm glad it's coming to an end
2021-04-18T19:50:19 < Steffann_> Here, not really yet....
2021-04-18T19:50:30 < Steffann_> Not much changed yet
2021-04-18T19:50:58 < Steffann_> Except for a 10k people party in some city next week. 🥳
2021-04-18T19:51:16 < Steffann_> But I wouldnt be surprised if it gets cancelled
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2021-04-18T20:17:10 < BrainDamage> a strange result is that if you calculate skin depth of copper, you'll find that at 300MHz it's already 1um
2021-04-18T20:18:00 < BrainDamage> so even run out the mill circuits are starting to see the effect of plating
2021-04-18T20:18:08 < BrainDamage> granted, it's not a lot
2021-04-18T20:18:35 < BrainDamage> oxygen free gold plating
2021-04-18T20:18:50 < BrainDamage> for the best soundstage propagation on clock lines
2021-04-18T20:20:16 < jadew> good one
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2021-04-18T21:34:38 < antto> did someone say "soundstage"
2021-04-18T21:42:31 < Steffann_> no, you misheard that antto
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2021-04-18T21:48:51 < jadew> come for the info, stay for the jokes
2021-04-18T21:54:11 < hkl0> hi all, w/ chibios and lwip when should I set PHY's autonegotitation, or event force 100mbps full duplex: in between calling halInit() and lwipInit() or after both of them?
2021-04-18T21:54:29 < hkl0> or even*
2021-04-18T22:02:55 < qyx> hkl0: I would recommend you #chibios but it is deader than dead
2021-04-18T22:03:48 < hkl0> yeah : / the forum is quite active though
2021-04-18T22:08:46 < antto> more dead than dead?
2021-04-18T22:08:52 < antto> bruh that's like.. megadead
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2021-04-18T22:54:18 < Steffann> deader than bsd a certain person would say
--- Day changed Mon Apr 19 2021
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2021-04-19T00:30:40 < jadew> just upgraded my bench: http://5.12.147.65/stuff/20210419_002612.jpg
2021-04-19T00:34:37 < qyx> did you consider buying a domain?
2021-04-19T00:34:59 < Steffann> Jadew nice fap cave. Is porn on calibrated screens better?
2021-04-19T00:35:03 < jadew> I have 40+
2021-04-19T00:35:32 < jadew> Steffann, it's better on the CRT, but it's only 4:3, so I only use that for spare scenes
2021-04-19T00:35:42 < jadew> in case they focus on the wrong thing at the wrong time
2021-04-19T00:36:23 < Steffann> Zack Snyders edition . Nice
2021-04-19T00:37:15 < jadew> I didn't catch that reference, what is it about?
2021-04-19T00:38:51 < Steffann> Zack Snyder's justice league is some 4:3 edition of the movie justice league 
2021-04-19T00:39:04 < jadew> ah, right
2021-04-19T00:39:20 < Steffann> 4:3 in 2021...
2021-04-19T00:39:56 < jadew> I was going to replace it with another wide screen one, but now I'm holding on the the broken ones too
2021-04-19T00:40:13 < jadew> maybe I can repair them and get nice contrast again
2021-04-19T00:41:06 < jadew> regarding the dispenser, it's so I don't have to touch the entire roll with my hands dirty from whatever I'm working on
2021-04-19T00:42:49 < jadew> it's funny you mention that movie, because that's what I was watching when I figured out the CRT was better: http://5.12.147.65/stuff/20210322_200828_.jpg
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2021-04-19T01:25:57 < mawk> I have 500€ in cryptocurrency I had forgotten about
2021-04-19T01:26:00 < mawk> it's christmas
2021-04-19T01:26:05 < mawk> what am I going to buy with it Steffann ?
2021-04-19T01:26:07 < mawk> new shoes maybe
2021-04-19T01:28:37 < Steffann> Heroine?
2021-04-19T01:28:59 < Steffann> Flowers for the gf
2021-04-19T01:29:30 < Steffann> Covid tests maybe 
2021-04-19T01:31:49 < mawk> covid test is useless
2021-04-19T01:33:18 < aandrew> jadew: why did you share a picture of a toilet paper holder?
2021-04-19T01:36:18 < mawk> you want an usage manual aandrew ?
2021-04-19T01:36:24 < mawk> manual is the right word
2021-04-19T01:39:45 < aandrew> lol
2021-04-19T01:43:13 < jadew> aandrew, I think it's a great addition to a bench
2021-04-19T01:43:16 < jadew> always wanted one
2021-04-19T01:43:55 < jadew> and I designed it myself, by copying someone else's design from thingiverse
2021-04-19T01:44:25 < jadew> don't you guys keep a roll of paper around?
2021-04-19T01:46:01 < jadew> I usually have two, because if I handle one when I'm dirty, I don't want to use it for "clean" activities, like blowing my nose or cleaning something up
2021-04-19T01:49:18 < BrainDamage> i simply use kitchn paper rolls, and an ikea 2$ kitchen paper holder, i keep it next to my bike along a bottle of alcohol
2021-04-19T01:49:54 < jadew> right, I have a bottle of alcohol next to my bench too
2021-04-19T01:49:55 < BrainDamage> it's to both clean my hands and/or the bike
2021-04-19T01:50:23 < jadew> kitchen paper rolls are too big for me tho
2021-04-19T01:52:16 < BrainDamage> I don't need to clean my hands when I'm soldering, etc, and if I need, I just walk to the bathroom
2021-04-19T01:52:48 < jadew> I clean PCBs, tools, the bench itself
2021-04-19T01:53:52 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't use toilet paper for that, it has the horrible tendency to leave lint when wet
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2021-04-19T01:54:23 < kakium69> night crew
2021-04-19T01:54:27 < jadew> I got used to it
2021-04-19T01:54:28 < kakium69> sup
2021-04-19T02:00:52 < mawk> you don't blow your nose with kitchen paper roll BrainDamage 
2021-04-19T02:01:00 < mawk> or you might as well do it with sandpaper
2021-04-19T02:01:16 < BrainDamage> I don't blow my nose with that
2021-04-19T02:01:32 < mawk> yes me neither I don't use sandpaper for that
2021-04-19T02:02:02 < BrainDamage> it's jaden smith that uses toiler paper as universal tool, I just said I use kitchen paper too clean my hands/bike from grease
2021-04-19T02:02:12 < BrainDamage> -o
2021-04-19T02:02:45 < mawk> a
2021-04-19T02:09:16 < aandrew> jadew: I use kitchen paper towels, usually cut in 1/3s. Toilet paper crumbles way too easily, as does tissue
2021-04-19T02:09:33 < aandrew> ideally something like kimwipes would be on my bench but I'm not gonna spend that much on something like that
2021-04-19T02:09:54 < jadew> I'll give kitchen towels a proper try then
2021-04-19T02:10:15 < jadew> I'm sure I had those on several occasions, but I don't remember being blown away or anything like that
2021-04-19T02:10:40 < aandrew> they're nice because they're fairly tough and do not leave behind anything
2021-04-19T02:12:51 < BrainDamage> there's towels that have cut period smaller
2021-04-19T02:13:11 < BrainDamage> about half the usual ones
2021-04-19T02:13:43 < jadew> that would be nicer
2021-04-19T02:13:49 < jadew> I'll have to look for those
2021-04-19T02:14:00 < jadew> otherwise I'd feel like I'm wasting too much
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2021-04-19T02:58:40 < mawk> zyp there's a house with 100 light bulbs and their respective 100 light switches, then 100 pro-tier electrical engineers (numbered from 1 to 100) step in the room; engineer number k will toggle light switch k, 2k, 3k, … until there's no more to toggle
2021-04-19T02:59:09 < mawk> so for instance engineer 1 will toggle everything from 1 to 100, engineer 2 will toggle 2, 4, 6, …, 98, 100; and so on
2021-04-19T02:59:23 < mawk> after all engineers are done engineering, which lights are on?
2021-04-19T03:00:23 < mawk> and subsidiary question, why?
2021-04-19T03:00:41 < mawk> try it too jadew you'll love it
2021-04-19T03:00:52 < mawk> you're a pro engineer in your heart
2021-04-19T03:09:08 < BrainDamage> only the first half matters for periodicity because the 2nd half toggles its own respective 
2021-04-19T03:09:33 < BrainDamage> as in, 66*2>100, same for all k > 50
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2021-04-19T03:50:24 < aandrew> mawk: 10
2021-04-19T03:50:56 < mawk> yes aandrew 10 lights are on
2021-04-19T03:50:57 < mawk> but which ones?
2021-04-19T03:51:10 < mawk> and why
2021-04-19T03:52:07 < aandrew> oh which ones? I can tell you
2021-04-19T03:52:09 < aandrew> moment
2021-04-19T03:53:41 < aandrew> 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100
2021-04-19T03:53:52 < aandrew> why? don't know
2021-04-19T03:54:05 < jadew> just saw that, did you bruteforce it? :)
2021-04-19T03:54:10 < aandrew> yes of course
2021-04-19T03:54:42 < aandrew> https://pastebin.com/qPQYirbu
2021-04-19T03:54:49 < aandrew> I don't do CS
2021-04-19T03:55:11 < aandrew> and the why I'm sure is up to its ass in lambdas and integrals and other bullshit
2021-04-19T03:55:58 < aandrew> I mean if I look at it
2021-04-19T03:56:18 < aandrew> 1 = 1^2, 4 = 2^2, 9 = 3^2 ... 100 = 10^2
2021-04-19T03:56:23 < aandrew> but why? don't know
2021-04-19T03:58:29 < kakium69> btc crashing
2021-04-19T03:59:51 < jadew> ponzicoin is only fluctuating
2021-04-19T03:59:59 < jadew> it's going to hit 1 million
2021-04-19T04:00:07 < mawk> it's not integrals or lambdas or computer science aandrew 
2021-04-19T04:00:10 < jadew> wait till musk buys even more coin
2021-04-19T04:00:24 < aandrew> mawk: so why?
2021-04-19T04:00:39 < jadew> ok, let me have a go at it
2021-04-19T04:00:49 < mawk> yes it's the squares aandrew 
2021-04-19T04:01:28 < mawk> all squares <= 100
2021-04-19T04:01:39 < mawk> but there is a way to prove why
2021-04-19T04:01:43 < mawk> the switch number k is toggled as many times as there are divisors of k, it's relatively easy to see it
2021-04-19T04:01:45 < mawk> switch 4 is toggled 3 times because 4 = 1*4 = 2*2 = 4*1
2021-04-19T04:01:47 < mawk> switch 5 on the other hand is toggled 2 times because 5 = 1*5 = 5*1
2021-04-19T04:01:50 < aandrew> interesting chip, that SN6501
2021-04-19T04:01:51 < mawk> the light stays on if the switch is toggled an odd number of times
2021-04-19T04:01:59 < mawk> now it should be easy to see why only the squares will keep the light on
2021-04-19T04:03:20 < mawk> for each divisor d of k, k/d is another divisor which is distinct from d if k isn't a square
2021-04-19T04:03:29 < mawk> so if k isn't a square, there is always an even number of divisors
2021-04-19T04:04:07 < mawk> and if k is a square well you have an even number of divisors different all different from sqrt(k), and then you have sqrt(k), so it's odd
2021-04-19T04:04:47 < mawk> for instance with 12 divisors are 1 2 3 4 6 12, they can be coupled 2 by 2 as (1, 12), (2, 6), (3, 4); which is possible to do because 12 isn't a square
2021-04-19T04:04:48 < jadew> kakium69, I wonder if TSLA will follow tomorrow
2021-04-19T04:05:09 < mawk> but for 16 divisors are 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, and they can be grouped as (1, 16), (2, 8), and 4 is left alone
2021-04-19T04:05:12 < mawk> so the number is odd
2021-04-19T04:05:16 < mawk> and that's it
2021-04-19T04:05:31 < aandrew> interesting
2021-04-19T04:06:23 < mawk> and switches toggled exactly twice are the prime numbers
2021-04-19T04:06:36 < jadew> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/two-die-tesla-crashes-no-195225893.html
2021-04-19T04:07:10 < mawk> lol
2021-04-19T04:07:12 < mawk> good for them
2021-04-19T04:13:28 < jadew> this is from last year: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/tesla-autopilot-moderate-driver-assistance-grade-from-euro-ncap.html
2021-04-19T04:13:40 < jadew> this is the report linked in the article: https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/assisted-driving-gradings/
2021-04-19T04:14:07 < jadew> so it turns out the hype around tesla is just BS (who would have thought)
2021-04-19T04:18:03 < jadew> well, it's not all BS, but they've made it seem like they've been so ahead of the pack it was impossible for anyone to catch up
2021-04-19T04:18:32 < jadew> anyway, I'm off to bed
2021-04-19T04:18:35 < jadew> night o/
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2021-04-19T07:03:23 < BrainDamage> then you recurse backwards because it's easier; 50th toggles 50 and 100, 49 would toggle 49 and 98; 48 would toggle 48 and 96, and you keep going backwards until 30, because 30 starts fitting 3 times in 100
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2021-04-19T11:25:43 < qyx> silabs out of stock, 45W lead time
2021-04-19T11:26:05 < qyx> Si7051, Si7021
2021-04-19T11:26:20 < Xogium> ouch
2021-04-19T11:27:07 < qyx>  9.211 Expected 5/31/2022 
2021-04-19T11:27:11 < qyx> thats not even 45 weeks
2021-04-19T11:27:23 < Xogium> er yeah
2021-04-19T11:32:27 < Xogium> I saw worse, 52 weeks lead time
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2021-04-19T11:34:25 < jpa-> i've seen the estimates be wildly inaccurate in general, like "expected in 52 weeks" and then two weeks later back in stock
2021-04-19T11:35:07 < Xogium> ah yeah that's also good to know
2021-04-19T11:35:42 < Xogium> I didn't know it was a rough estimate. I was thinking that maybe the manufacturer communicated with the reseller to let them know
2021-04-19T11:36:37 < jpa-> sometimes it can be that - but usually the distributors always put some estimate even if there is no accurate information
2021-04-19T11:36:49 < Xogium> ah
2021-04-19T11:37:34 < Xogium> that's a good thing to know
2021-04-19T12:01:26 < ventyl> guesstimate
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2021-04-19T14:12:10 < Laurenceb> keeeekkkk
2021-04-19T14:12:29 < Laurenceb> hyperloop had a quote for doing my jerb
2021-04-19T14:12:34 < Laurenceb> ukp400
2021-04-19T14:12:47 < englishman> per hour?
2021-04-19T14:14:03 < BrainDamage> mawk: I had the prime part right, but my connection went to shit
2021-04-19T14:18:47 < Laurenceb> englishman: per entire project
2021-04-19T14:18:50 < Laurenceb> keek
2021-04-19T14:19:07 < Laurenceb> maybe they missed out three zeros
2021-04-19T14:22:09 < englishman> or maybe you're not as valuable as you perceive yourself to be?
2021-04-19T14:22:55 < englishman> why don't you accept their contract at $400 then call it delivered and just do nothing for the next 2-3 years?
2021-04-19T14:23:16 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-04-19T14:23:49 < Laurenceb> aiui they have some existing system that they think will owrk so they would just turn up and look at the problem, then call it fixed 
2021-04-19T14:24:40 < englishman> this would be a great way for you to "short" hyperloop
2021-04-19T14:24:50 < qyx> 400 GBP per month uf autism sounds even less than we easterners earn
2021-04-19T14:25:24 < BrainDamage> are you sure you want to work for people who display this amount of incompetence?
2021-04-19T14:25:31 < Laurenceb> keek BrainDamage
2021-04-19T14:25:50 < Laurenceb> they paid me to make a traction controller, so *shrug*
2021-04-19T14:25:58 < Laurenceb> I've been paid so far
2021-04-19T14:26:02 < BrainDamage> I am serious, if the project fails, your wage disappars too
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2021-04-19T14:49:40 < Laurenceb> https://denvergazette.com/wex/indianapolis-fedex-shooting-suspect-was-part-of-my-little-pony-subculture-of-bronies-report/article_fe81cb67-01f7-5afe-ad32-eb16c775a93a.html.
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2021-04-19T15:52:03 < aandrew> Laurenceb: unsurprising
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2021-04-19T16:24:21 < benishor> https://youtu.be/p1KolyCqICI?t=2454
2021-04-19T16:26:16 < qyx> Laurenceb: re mars rotorcraft, any idea why they used coaxial counter rotating blades?
2021-04-19T16:27:16 < karlp> as opposed to?
2021-04-19T16:27:19 < BrainDamage> they are inherently stable
2021-04-19T16:27:42 < qyx> as opposed to classic uav quad rotor topology
2021-04-19T16:28:03 < karlp> 3 extra motors to get grit in and fail?
2021-04-19T16:28:21 < qyx> but no additional mechanics
2021-04-19T16:29:39 < BrainDamage> if control loop fails in a quadrotor the quadrotor instantly goes unstable, flips off and does a power dive
2021-04-19T16:29:58 < PaulFertser> Also, with coaxial they can get really long rotor blades.
2021-04-19T16:30:43 < BrainDamage> and the control loop is incredibly complex when you account all the parts
2021-04-19T16:31:05 < BrainDamage> imu, speed seensors, angle sensors, actuators, etc
2021-04-19T16:31:07 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-19T16:31:15 < Laurenceb> coaxial folds smaller
2021-04-19T16:31:22 < Laurenceb> thats probably the deciding factor
2021-04-19T16:31:28 < Laurenceb> quadcopters are a meme
2021-04-19T16:34:26 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: with flybar-less coaxial it's also tricky enough afaik.
2021-04-19T16:34:34 < karlp> giant blades for thin air too.
2021-04-19T16:35:29 < srk> solid $80m PR stunt
2021-04-19T16:36:24 < qyx> so it is proper science, not a make:r product then
2021-04-19T16:37:34 < jpa-> the main advantage of quadcopters is that they are cheap to manufacture
2021-04-19T16:39:45 < BrainDamage> yeah, mechanical parts are incredibly expensive compared to electronics and motors
2021-04-19T16:40:07 < BrainDamage> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention
2021-04-19T16:40:35 < englishman> probably all mechanical parts are safely shielded from dust on the inside of that little box, too
2021-04-19T16:41:14 < karlp> meh, type punning is boring.
2021-04-19T16:41:19 < englishman> vs. having to have four sealed motors on the extremeties
2021-04-19T16:42:53 < englishman> very large blades for the thin atmosphere, to respect maximum available power maybe
2021-04-19T16:43:17 < englishman> 4 foot blades to lift a 1.8kg copter
2021-04-19T16:43:35 < karlp> uint32_t x = *(uint32_t *)&t_f;
2021-04-19T16:43:37 < karlp> lameeeee
2021-04-19T16:43:37 < BrainDamage> thin atmosphere would require very high revolution ratio to get same lift
2021-04-19T16:44:24 < PaulFertser> And yet the RPM they use is relatively not impressive.
2021-04-19T16:44:29 < jpa-> karlp: your codebase has integral type puns? you should be floating with joy!
2021-04-19T16:44:53 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: that's thanks to the large surface
2021-04-19T16:45:05 < BrainDamage> smaller blades would need much higher speeds
2021-04-19T16:45:08 < englishman> The helicopter battery shown in Fig. 12 consists of 6 Sony SE US1865o VTC4 Li-ion cells with a nameplate capacity
2021-04-19T16:45:08 < englishman> of 2 Ah. The continuous tested power load capability of this batterry is 480 W with a peak power capability of
2021-04-19T16:45:08 < englishman> 510 W. Battery voltage is in the range of 15–25.2 V and the total mass of the 6 cells is 273 g.
2021-04-19T16:45:10 < englishman> cool
2021-04-19T16:45:28 < englishman> vape batts
2021-04-19T16:46:02 < englishman> 2400rpm on a 4 foot blade is a lot of energy
2021-04-19T16:48:10 < qyx> not that uncommon, 20A cells
2021-04-19T16:48:24 < karlp> jpa-: https://www.freertos.org/xTaskNotify.html takes a uint32_t for the "32 bit value"
2021-04-19T16:48:38 < karlp> and if you just call that with a float, it gets converted to a uint, 
2021-04-19T16:48:55 < karlp> the on the receiving side, you get it put back into a float pointer, which trashes it...
2021-04-19T16:49:06 < karlp> (and you lose all the floating point bits on the way in...)
2021-04-19T16:49:13 < qyx> are you using the event bitmask to pass a float?
2021-04-19T16:49:23 < BrainDamage> the blade edge would be almost supersonic in earth's atmosphere
2021-04-19T16:49:41 < BrainDamage> def in transition range
2021-04-19T16:49:53 < jpa-> karlp: i'm annoyed that standard C doesn't seem to have    float_to_binary32()   and   binary32_to_float()
2021-04-19T16:49:53 < BrainDamage> with lots of instability
2021-04-19T16:51:29 < karlp> qyx: you're very much allowed to pass a 32bit value, as a lightweight queue of depth 1.
2021-04-19T16:51:48 < karlp> you ... can't do it with the cmsis rtos layer apis though, they expect it to be only 32 single flags..
2021-04-19T16:52:27 < karlp> I was just figuring out why my float didn't work firs ttime.  float conversion can happen either side really, just has to be documented
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2021-04-19T16:55:25 < ventyl> jpa-: i have a question regarding DSO quad - have you ever experienced a bug that you couldn't shift waveform window? it happened quite often with original firmware, but now it happened with this pimped stuff you shown me. so I expect that waveform is actually stored in FPGA and it has some kind of bug, may this be right?
2021-04-19T16:56:29 < jpa-> ventyl: the most common reason is that the scroller switch things are poor quality and don't always make contact
2021-04-19T16:56:44 < jpa-> but if your scroller works otherwise then maybe it is some software bug
2021-04-19T16:57:14 < ventyl> jpa-: scroller works, "scrollbar" shows movement. just waveform sits static and ignores shift amount
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2021-04-19T17:13:29 < jpa-> ventyl: i think i've seen that also, can't remember what it exactly is
2021-04-19T17:31:58 < fenugrec> "inherently stable" - no kind of helicopter is inherently stable, coax or not...
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2021-04-19T17:34:10 < fenugrec> but interesting choice nevertheless vs quad / n-rotor system. Probably was more compact for the same amount of lift
2021-04-19T17:36:18 < ventyl> apparently yes
2021-04-19T17:36:58 < ventyl> jpa-: it is annoying, because power off/on won't fix it
2021-04-19T17:44:25 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/page-3#post-5189164
2021-04-19T18:07:29 < Laurenceb> >when the american police ask you to dance a samba while reciting the declaration of independence backwards while spinning a banana in one hand and they shoot you dead for making a mistake
2021-04-19T18:07:42 < BrainDamage> fenugrec: inherently stable defined as: with control loop open, you give a _small_ solecitation and the trajectory doesn't diverge, this is true for coax rotors, the mass hanging below dampens small solecitations by pendulum effect
2021-04-19T18:11:57 < qyx> but that may be true even for non coaxial multirotors
2021-04-19T18:12:28 < Xogium> kinda OT but I haven't got any better place to ask so far :p
2021-04-19T18:12:33 < qyx> in its extreme, a coaxial multirotor is just a special case of a generic multirotor
2021-04-19T18:12:57 < qyx> where the mass is located makes it more or less stable
2021-04-19T18:13:15 < Xogium> did anyone ever get google assistant unable to send sms to the point it then makes it impossible for you to ever send any sms no matter if done through assistant or not, till you reboot the phone ?
2021-04-19T18:13:25 < Xogium> I'm having this here and it is bloody annoying
2021-04-19T18:14:15 < Xogium> to be clear: if I send sms typing them manually it works. If I use google assistant it doesn't work and breaks my message app till I reboot the phone
2021-04-19T18:15:19 < Xogium> and its really the network that's telling me my message couldn't be sent. As if its rejecting it
2021-04-19T18:16:42 < Xogium> I'm a bit annoyed because honestly typing on a touchscreen is a nightmare, and I was kinda hoping to use this very function
2021-04-19T18:18:47 < BrainDamage> qyx: correct
2021-04-19T18:19:14 < BrainDamage> eerrr, sorry, partially correct
2021-04-19T18:19:30 < BrainDamage> the coaxial also makes the 1st angular momentum 0
2021-04-19T18:20:11 < qyx> true, but it depends on the rotor topology and the direction
2021-04-19T18:21:21 < BrainDamage> it's 0 no matter what the direction the normal of the axis points, then the mass dampening makes it sure it's centered on the vertical
2021-04-19T18:22:12 < BrainDamage> the combination of the two gives a passive stabilization mechanism
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2021-04-19T19:18:47 < karlp> heh, was godbolting to test out strict aliasing things with memcpy, and the compðile just straight up recognizes that my test functions do the same thing :https://godbolt.org/z/Ga41YWvej
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2021-04-19T19:28:27 < Laurenceb> ur mum Just sat on George Floyd and killed him 
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2021-04-19T19:45:24 < jpa-> karlp: isn't the standard way to use union{}
2021-04-19T19:47:35 < jpa-> https://godbolt.org/z/sav1GE5YT  funnily notpunn2 does not get recognized as identical
2021-04-19T19:49:08 < karlp> union is one way, but it's apparently not legal c++ (not that I'm doing that anyway) and memcpy is "standard" for both, and is meant to recognise things properly too.
2021-04-19T19:57:01 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, I take issue with "inherently stable". I'd settle for "somewhat less unstable". #internetargument
2021-04-19T19:59:18 < BrainDamage> fenugrec: I didn't make up the term, it's a standard control theory definition
2021-04-19T19:59:25 < PaulFertser> If it had a flybar then it would be way more stable without any IMU.
2021-04-19T19:59:44 < PaulFertser> But FBL system isn't supposed to be stable when IMU fails.
2021-04-19T19:59:49 < PaulFertser> Even if it's a coax heli.
2021-04-19T20:00:00 < fenugrec> BrainDamage, yes I know, and I disagree, but don't feel like arguing
2021-04-19T20:00:40 < fenugrec> blade flex, rotor head design and stabilizer bar linkages make things even more annoying to argue about P )
2021-04-19T20:01:53 < PaulFertser> https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/ only that it doesn't have the stabilizer bar.
2021-04-19T20:02:45 < englishman> i can't imagine there are any advantages to flybar anymore
2021-04-19T20:02:57 < PaulFertser> Works without electronics
2021-04-19T20:03:06 < englishman> big savings in mass and rotational mass
2021-04-19T20:03:25 < englishman> i don't think that's an important failure mode
2021-04-19T20:04:10 < PaulFertser> 16:29 < BrainDamage> if control loop fails in a quadrotor the quadrotor instantly goes unstable, flips off and does a power dive
2021-04-19T20:04:36 < fenugrec> I'd love to peak at the CAD for the mars chopper
2021-04-19T20:04:40 < fenugrec> *peek
2021-04-19T20:04:50 < englishman> oh i'm not making any control theory arguments, i don't think a quadcopter is feasible considering the weight and atmosphere
2021-04-19T20:05:31 < englishman> quadcopters are simple on earth, because there are only 4 moving parts, but they are not very size efficient
2021-04-19T20:05:31 < PaulFertser> https://mars.nasa.gov/imgs/helicopter/paper_helicopter-500x250.jpg
2021-04-19T20:06:00 < PaulFertser> englishman: yeah, I was "arguing" with BrainDamage :)
2021-04-19T20:07:07 < PaulFertser> I wonder if there's any chance NASA eventually publishes the blueprints for it.
2021-04-19T20:07:15 < englishman> i doubt autorotation is something they planned for here, so i think any mechanical or electrical failure will result in a crash
2021-04-19T20:07:59 < PaulFertser> Their "Make a Paper Mars Helicopter" is exactly about autorotation though :)
2021-04-19T20:08:38 < englishman> i bet their paper helicopter would plummet to the ground on mars
2021-04-19T20:22:09 < zyp> karlp, this is the new proper way to do it in C++: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/bit_cast
2021-04-19T20:25:04 < jpa-> cool
2021-04-19T20:25:37 < karlp> since c++20 :)
2021-04-19T20:25:44 < zyp> hence new
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2021-04-19T21:45:00 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMnOo2zcjXA&ab_channel=NASAJetPropulsionLaboratory
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2021-04-19T22:07:33 < Laurenceb> Bro bro er bro bro yeh bro bro, where dem mandems sliders you bro don’t hit him, wyboy coming into mandems bigup areas wid de shank dem but no sliders an’ wysocks tryna propriate mandems cultcha, raaaaaaaaaaaaar, swear down bro bro, only mandems can carry shanks in mandem areas bro
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2021-04-19T23:05:01 < Steffann> did jadew die in the mean time yet?
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2021-04-20T00:37:34 < jadew> Steffann, I'm much better today
2021-04-20T00:38:04 < jadew> there might still be a slight discomfort under the armpit, but not painful like yesterday
2021-04-20T00:38:23 < jadew> thanks for asking
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2021-04-20T00:39:21 < jadew> oh, and Pfizer stock is on the rise, so I'm making money off of this pandemic :P
2021-04-20T00:41:22 < jadew> that said, Pfizer seems to be the worst stock
2021-04-20T00:41:32 < Steffann> Lol
2021-04-20T00:42:01 < jadew> turns out it's so big, not even the vaccine sales can move its price, because it's just a drop in the ocean
2021-04-20T00:42:17 < Steffann> AZ is doing better than I expected 
2021-04-20T00:42:43 < jadew> the stock price?
2021-04-20T00:42:46 < Steffann> Yeah
2021-04-20T00:43:55 < jadew> yeah, doesn't seem to be affected by the news
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2021-04-20T00:49:24 < jadew> anyone using rectangular hot air nozzles?
2021-04-20T00:49:47 < jadew> are they better for ICs or it's just BS?
2021-04-20T00:53:12 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053603755.html
2021-04-20T00:53:17 < jadew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33042170553.html
2021-04-20T00:54:28 < jadew> oh... the ones from the first link channel the heat to the pins only
2021-04-20T00:54:31 < jadew> that's neat
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2021-04-20T00:57:34 < jadew> why is all crypto red?
2021-04-20T01:06:17 < jadew> off to bed, night
2021-04-20T01:21:48 < kakium69> bed ircs
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2021-04-20T03:25:44 < bitmask> netflix has got me watching some korean stuff and they do some funny stuff when they think people don't understand tech
2021-04-20T03:26:57 < bitmask> like this show about a guy who got his eyes stabbed out and they put in bionic eyes and they had this scene during the surgery where the doctor slowly inserts a random 16 or so pin plastic dip chip into his body
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2021-04-20T03:53:17 < aandrew> lol
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2021-04-20T04:12:36 < fenugrec> probably an eye-two-see IC
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2021-04-20T08:31:49 < zyp> fenugrec, haha
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2021-04-20T11:53:06 < karlp> what show?
2021-04-20T11:55:45 < Steffann> Best shows are those when the GPS trackers used are actually nrf24l0 boards
2021-04-20T11:56:04 < Steffann> Always funny when you recognise the hw used. 
2021-04-20T11:56:32 < karlp> feck, silabs training was 10 euro, which _was_ 9 icelandic, but is now 8 icelandic.
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2021-04-20T11:57:23 < Steffann> Some shows/movies have real dongs_ . I recall he mentioned something like that once. They used his display port/hdmi boards for those ipad panels
2021-04-20T11:58:13 < Steffann> Ohno karlp, will you be alright?
2021-04-20T12:00:06 < karlp> eh, just means I'll go through it by hand myself, the training materials are good, 
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2021-04-20T12:21:01 < karlp> holyshit zoom chat window _always_ scrolls to the bottom
2021-04-20T12:21:11 < karlp> it's impossible to read anything that you missed, always jumping around.
2021-04-20T12:22:23 < srk> like most web apps, total usability shit show
2021-04-20T12:22:35 < Xogium> ewww that sounds horrible
2021-04-20T12:23:04 < ventyl> it is video app anyway
2021-04-20T12:23:04 < karlp> I can't remember if the desktop app behaved the same or not
2021-04-20T12:23:10 < karlp> can't be arsed anyway.
2021-04-20T12:23:11 < ventyl> you are not supposed to chat in video app
2021-04-20T12:23:15 < srk> probably electron anyway
2021-04-20T12:23:21 < karlp> ventyl: no. you are wrong.
2021-04-20T12:23:26 < ventyl> zoom desktop is actually a Qt app
2021-04-20T12:23:29 < ventyl> pretty crappy
2021-04-20T12:23:34 < srk> fun
2021-04-20T12:23:35 < ventyl> I couldn't make it worky
2021-04-20T12:24:08 < srk> element-desktop (matrix client) is half-decent but still has many annoying web/electron quirks
2021-04-20T12:24:17 < ventyl> on the other side, my shitty ARM laptop survived running zoom with desktop sharing for two hours
2021-04-20T12:24:29 < srk> :D what's the core?
2021-04-20T12:24:47 < ventyl> RK3399, some 2xA72s + 4x A52?
2021-04-20T12:24:59 < srk> a yea, pinebook?
2021-04-20T12:25:02 < ventyl> pro
2021-04-20T12:25:09 < ventyl> right, i like it
2021-04-20T12:25:19 < srk> cool, I have imx6q (novena)
2021-04-20T12:25:41 < srk> slowly converting it to emacs terminal because I can't be bothered to fix graphics performance currently
2021-04-20T12:25:43 < ventyl> i made it my daily driver and tossed x86 shit away just for government purposes
2021-04-20T12:25:49 < srk> nice
2021-04-20T12:26:24 < Xogium> cool ! I'd like to do that sometimes
2021-04-20T12:26:32 < srk> want to do it as well. lots of time I'm using laptop just as a client to x86 desktop..
2021-04-20T12:26:40 < qyx> is there a usable editor available for emacs yet?
2021-04-20T12:26:40 < Xogium> but screen reader and accessible browsers use ton of ram
2021-04-20T12:26:46 < srk> qyx: evil ;)
2021-04-20T12:26:59 < qyx> :>
2021-04-20T12:27:16 < srk> qyx: I've switched to doom-emacs recently, pretty happy with it
2021-04-20T12:27:16 < Xogium> so far my record was 8 gb for screen reader and 4 gb for browser
2021-04-20T12:27:25 < ventyl> Xogium: i only ran to lack of RAM trying to stack 60mpx astrophoto here.
2021-04-20T12:27:25 < Xogium> combined
2021-04-20T12:27:55 < Xogium> my poor laptop had only 4 gb of ram left x)
2021-04-20T12:28:07 < srk> that's total ram on my poor arm laptop :D
2021-04-20T12:28:32 < ventyl> it turns out that RAM compression is pretty efficient
2021-04-20T12:28:46 < BrainDamage> re:element, you can run a webserver and launch it in the browser
2021-04-20T12:28:55 < Xogium> is it ? Back when I used it, I locked up my OS pretty bad
2021-04-20T12:29:04 < Xogium> I figured I'd let this mature
2021-04-20T12:29:17 < ventyl> you can run kicad, freecad, cura, web browser w/ youtube, a bunch of gdb + openocd and quite some PDF datashits in parallel
2021-04-20T12:29:25 < ventyl> out of 4GB of RAM
2021-04-20T12:29:35 < srk> BrainDamage: I can't have these chats open in browser as they get lost :) also most homeservers host element so no need to run anything
2021-04-20T12:30:06 < srk> ventyl: wow, how do you enable RAM compression?
2021-04-20T12:30:18 < BrainDamage> zram/zswap
2021-04-20T12:30:36 < srk> thx, gotta try somewhere
2021-04-20T12:30:43 < ventyl> srk: modprobe zram && zramctl --size <n>GB /dev/zram0 && mkswap /dev/zram0 && swapon /dev/zram0
2021-04-20T12:30:57 < srk> nice
2021-04-20T12:31:08 < ventyl> <n> stands for desired capacity
2021-04-20T12:31:09 < BrainDamage> srk: it's my browser, just a separate window with a sep titlle
2021-04-20T12:31:27 < ventyl> typical real-life compression ratio is somewhere between 3:1 to 4:1
2021-04-20T12:32:18 < srk> BrainDamage: well I don't know how to use browsers. I start with one window that has couple of tabs, take like one day to reach hundreds tabs. then I start opening more windows as the original one gets too slow due to tree style tabs
2021-04-20T12:32:47 < srk> couple days of hacking I end up with like ~5 browser windows and 1-2k tabs
2021-04-20T12:33:07 < BrainDamage> start checking the command line switches
2021-04-20T12:33:19 < srk> then I make some boomarks and nuke everything to free up half of my desktops ram
2021-04-20T12:33:31 < BrainDamage> chromium has hundreds of poorly documented switches
2021-04-20T12:33:38 < BrainDamage> on various websittes
2021-04-20T12:33:49 < BrainDamage> and ff too has a decent set
2021-04-20T12:34:21 < ventyl> 0 1 * * 7 killall -9 firefox-bin
2021-04-20T12:34:22 < ventyl> ?
2021-04-20T12:34:31 < ventyl> automated tab bankrupcy
2021-04-20T12:34:55 < srk> pretty much, I want automated garbage collection for tabs /o\
2021-04-20T12:35:26 < srk> recently tried with https://github.com/osnr/TabFS but didn't manage to get it working
2021-04-20T12:36:00 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-20T12:36:09 < Xogium> I have max 3 tabs opened in a single window
2021-04-20T12:36:15 < Xogium> all day long
2021-04-20T12:36:27 < srk> well I confess I don't know how to use web .. :D
2021-04-20T12:36:35 < qyx> theres a tab counter addon for ff
2021-04-20T12:36:38 < qyx> I used it regularly
2021-04-20T12:36:45 < Xogium> I mean like I just close the tabs when I'm done with it
2021-04-20T12:36:45 < qyx> if it reached 1000, I killed all tabs
2021-04-20T12:36:47 < qyx> and started over
2021-04-20T12:37:25 < BrainDamage> I learned to bookmark important things as I need
2021-04-20T12:37:31 < qyx> me too
2021-04-20T12:37:34 < BrainDamage> then tabs become fungible
2021-04-20T12:37:37 < srk> same
2021-04-20T12:37:41 < qyx> bookmarks are a great /dev/null substitution
2021-04-20T12:39:09 < ventyl> i will write a plugin, which will convert bookmarks to archive.org/wayback/datetime/<url>
2021-04-20T12:39:16 < ventyl> as bookmarks tend to rot over time
2021-04-20T12:40:00 < BrainDamage> imagine the day archive.org goes offline
2021-04-20T12:40:06 < effractur> ventyl: then you also need to subit them to the archive
2021-04-20T12:40:11 < effractur> but there is afiak already a plugin for that
2021-04-20T12:40:27 < Xogium> BrainDamage: heh
2021-04-20T12:40:28 < ventyl> effractur: it archives stuff automatically pretty much autonomously
2021-04-20T12:40:55 < effractur> ventyl: yes but you can sumbit urls to be fetched at that specifif timepoint
2021-04-20T12:41:11 < ventyl> good to know
2021-04-20T12:41:38 < effractur> https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/ArchiveBot
2021-04-20T12:42:12 < ventyl> only if it has a service of recovering URLs from vague descriptions such as: 10 years ago, there was an alpha-laval whitepaper containing exchanger designs considerations and formulas I've seen and didn't download, because it is on the internets
2021-04-20T12:42:16 < ventyl> and now it is gone
2021-04-20T12:45:50 -!- tomeaton17 [8258e21b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.130.88.226.27] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
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2021-04-20T13:36:09 < karlp> known issues in current release: "The Bluetooth stack occasionally gets stuck in an eternal
2021-04-20T13:36:11 < karlp> loop"
2021-04-20T13:36:13 < karlp>  workaroudns: none.
2021-04-20T13:36:16 < karlp> nice one silabs.
2021-04-20T13:40:33 < ventyl> stm32 H7 should probably be renamet do h6t
2021-04-20T13:40:45 < ventyl> then it could stand for STM32 *holy shit*
2021-04-20T13:41:01 < ventyl> SPI apparently needs complete teardown in order to reset EOT flag
2021-04-20T13:42:38 < jpa-> ventyl: why? can't you just clear it through the flag clear register?
2021-04-20T13:42:57 < ventyl> jpa-: apparently that won't work, it stays set. at least here it stays set
2021-04-20T13:43:12 < ventyl> and TXTF is never set unless you do leave/enter
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2021-04-20T14:23:41 < karlp> woo, super speed internet: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/HmcOQ.png
2021-04-20T14:25:50 < karlp> quacktel modem has 5 interfaces, cute.
2021-04-20T14:31:38 < ventyl> I somehow made it working without complete teardown. but I don't have a clue, how :>
2021-04-20T14:45:08 < invzim> screw you global chip shortage
2021-04-20T14:45:20 < Xogium> can't agree more
2021-04-20T14:48:31 < BrainDamage> the more we'll converge to The Semiconductor company, the higher the chance it'll happen again
2021-04-20T14:48:39 < Xogium> indeed
2021-04-20T14:51:25 < invzim> I don't get it tbh, there are not enough EV's produced
2021-04-20T14:56:11 < karlp> BrainDamage: but.... think about the  margins!
2021-04-20T14:56:37 < karlp> also, "what do you mean, the 'OneChip' doesn't do what you need it to do? you must be doing something illicit!"
2021-04-20T15:32:12 < skz81> ^o^  \o/  ^o^  \o/  ^o^  \o/  
2021-04-20T15:32:19 < skz81> sorry gentlemen, gym time
2021-04-20T15:32:36 < skz81> arg, wrong channel :p
2021-04-20T15:32:54  * skz81 hides
2021-04-20T15:43:42 < karlp> hrm, simpliciity studio debugger hits on some paths, but other paths just... don't.
2021-04-20T15:43:50 < karlp> I wonder if that's just optimized?
2021-04-20T15:43:52  * karlp shrugs
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2021-04-20T15:45:40 -!- bitmask [bitmask@gateway/vpn/mullvad/bitmask/x-01713273] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-20T15:49:11 < fenugrec> oh nice, forecast for tomorrow, 2cm snow. Thought we were done with that
2021-04-20T15:50:07 < englishman> no refunds on your $700/year motorcycle fee
2021-04-20T15:50:59 < fenugrec> heh is it 700 now ? oh for the >400cc yeah I guess
2021-04-20T15:53:44 < ventyl> no cu.in? how come?
2021-04-20T16:05:47 < englishman> i think there are max. 2 americans in here
2021-04-20T16:07:52 < BrainDamage> r2commie doesn't count, he's still russian at heart
2021-04-20T16:08:05 < BrainDamage> he tries too hard to fit in the us conservative politics
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2021-04-20T16:27:20 < ventyl> i've met americans trying to convince me, that imperial system is still widely and exclusively used elsewhere, such as canada, australia and UK
2021-04-20T16:27:55 < ventyl> and that the only difference between imp and metric is the length of inch vs. lengthof centimeter
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2021-04-20T16:37:44 < Laurenceb> mmcblk: probe of mmc0:aaaa failed with error -12
2021-04-20T16:37:48 < Laurenceb> lunix style
2021-04-20T16:39:57 < Laurenceb> it'd help if there was some clue what error -12 even meant
2021-04-20T16:41:45 < Laurenceb> imagine my shark when windows10 and ubuntu both work fine with same card on same laptop
2021-04-20T16:41:56 < Laurenceb> lunix mint failure
2021-04-20T16:43:06 < ventyl> windows would tell you, that error was 0x8000000C
2021-04-20T16:43:09 < ventyl> would that make you happy?
2021-04-20T16:45:43 < Laurenceb> lol
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2021-04-20T16:57:00 < PaulFertser> "moreutils" package has "errno" command
2021-04-20T17:09:04 < Laurenceb> is there a way to get more verbose output in dmesg?
2021-04-20T17:09:50 < BrainDamage> check the journal, not dmesg
2021-04-20T17:10:26 < jpa-> Laurenceb: dynamic debug
2021-04-20T17:10:53 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: where is the journal?
2021-04-20T17:11:46 < jpa-> e.g.    echo 'file *mmc* +p' | sudo tee /sys/kernel/debug/dynamic_debug/control
2021-04-20T17:14:22 < BrainDamage> journalctll
2021-04-20T17:14:34 < BrainDamage> -l
2021-04-20T17:14:35 < BrainDamage> it collects way more than just the kernel buffer
2021-04-20T17:14:45 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-04-20T17:15:12 < jpa-> BrainDamage: what more does it collect that might be of help in resolving an issue with mmc kernel driver?
2021-04-20T17:15:34 < jpa-> isn't journalctl more for userland stuff, AFAIK it doesn't have other sources from kernel than dmesg
2021-04-20T17:15:34 < Xogium> errno 12 should be
2021-04-20T17:15:47 < Laurenceb> there doesnt seem to be a packet for journalctl on lunix mint 20
2021-04-20T17:16:08 < BrainDamage> it collects also information from the audit framework
2021-04-20T17:16:15 < Laurenceb> I can see the journal logs, but they are binary
2021-04-20T17:16:21 < Xogium> ouch
2021-04-20T17:16:26 < Xogium> if itis 12, its bad
2021-04-20T17:16:30 < Xogium> *if it is
2021-04-20T17:16:34 < Xogium> ENOMEM 12 Cannot allocate memory
2021-04-20T17:16:37 < Laurenceb> aha
2021-04-20T17:16:51 < BrainDamage> you likely have it installed already
2021-04-20T17:16:54 < Laurenceb> this is on a laptop with only 2GB
2021-04-20T17:17:05 < Laurenceb> I wondered if it was that
2021-04-20T17:17:14 < Xogium> journalctl is part of systemd
2021-04-20T17:17:19 < BrainDamage> you can use jouurnalctl or strings to read them
2021-04-20T17:17:43 < Xogium> but yeah enomem sounds like it might be it
2021-04-20T17:17:55 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-04-20T17:18:03 < Laurenceb> I'll try to free some memory
2021-04-20T17:18:07 < Xogium> though if you don't use  the full 2 gb…
2021-04-20T17:18:10 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: derp I have it installed
2021-04-20T17:18:23 < Laurenceb> but how do I use it to read the logs?
2021-04-20T17:18:34 < Xogium> journalctl ? 
2021-04-20T17:18:43 < Xogium> journalctl -b would current logs for the boot
2021-04-20T17:18:44 < Laurenceb> Xogium: I have 700meg free atm, maybe not enough...?
2021-04-20T17:18:49 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-20T17:18:58 < Xogium> depends how the card is initialized I suppose
2021-04-20T17:18:59 < jpa-> Laurenceb: once you finish with the journalctl distraction, remember to go back into dynamic debug command i mentioned earlier :)
2021-04-20T17:19:23 < jpa-> it will enable debug messages from kernel
2021-04-20T17:20:05 < Laurenceb> ok
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2021-04-20T17:21:16 < Xogium> yeah, it could be a different error on kernel side but
2021-04-20T17:23:41 < Xogium> it could be that the kernel itself has not enough memory to load the driver but that is streching it :p
2021-04-20T17:28:35 < Laurenceb> yeah no extra info in journal
2021-04-20T17:30:14 < Xogium> how large is that sd card ?
2021-04-20T17:31:33 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: for your information, journald gathers all the kernel messages from /dev/kmsg , so you won't see anything extra in there that's not present in dmesg already.
2021-04-20T17:32:08 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: also you can manipulate the current debug level with "dmesg -n" (e.g. -n7 would enable up to debug).
2021-04-20T17:32:14 < Laurenceb> ok thansk jpa-: I got the full debug
2021-04-20T17:32:19 < Laurenceb> but no extra info
2021-04-20T17:32:33 < Laurenceb> 358433.904280] mmc0: clock 25000000Hz busmode 2 powermode 2 cs 0 Vdd 21 width 4 timing 0
2021-04-20T17:32:33 < Laurenceb> [358433.904294] mmc0: new SDHC card at address aaaa
2021-04-20T17:32:39 < Laurenceb> ^it inits the card fine
2021-04-20T17:32:53 < Laurenceb> then fails with error -12 during "probe"
2021-04-20T17:37:49 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-20T17:37:58 < Xogium> this is certainly puzzling
2021-04-20T17:38:07 < Xogium> do you have another machine to try this card on ?
2021-04-20T17:38:10 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-20T17:38:24 < Laurenceb> in fact I tried it on the same machine, running old ubuntu
2021-04-20T17:38:26 < Laurenceb> works fine
2021-04-20T17:38:42 < Xogium> weird
2021-04-20T17:39:08 < Xogium> what does that distro use for kernel ?
2021-04-20T17:39:16 < Laurenceb> 2.6 something iirc
2021-04-20T17:39:27 < Xogium> the ubuntu ?
2021-04-20T17:39:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-20T17:39:36 < jpa-> address aaaa seems weird
2021-04-20T17:39:39 < Xogium> woo that is *old*
2021-04-20T17:39:48 < Xogium> jpa-: I was about to say the same thing
2021-04-20T17:41:53 < Xogium> is it even a valid address
2021-04-20T17:42:22 < Xogium> also trying to check for kernel if error 12 is also enomem or not
2021-04-20T17:43:19 < Laurenceb> according to lunix coding standards it seems to be
2021-04-20T17:43:56 < Laurenceb> also there are some embedded lunix forum posts where error -12 at probe occurs because the system has insufficient memory
2021-04-20T17:51:26 < Xogium> this is some weird beast
2021-04-20T17:51:37 < Xogium> but yeah its really out of memory error
2021-04-20T17:51:57 < jpa-> i would start by finding out what line of code prints out the error message, and look backwards from it
2021-04-20T17:52:29 < Xogium> yeah that should work
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2021-04-20T18:04:04 < Laurenceb> hmm supposedly drop_caches may fix it
2021-04-20T18:04:12 < Laurenceb> dunno if that causes me to lose anything
2021-04-20T18:04:13 < Xogium> huh ?
2021-04-20T18:04:22 < Xogium> what cache ?
2021-04-20T18:04:30 < PaulFertser> Kernel caches
2021-04-20T18:04:44 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-20T18:04:45 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-20T18:04:48 < PaulFertser> But it's unlikely to help.
2021-04-20T18:04:50 < PaulFertser> Highly unlikely.
2021-04-20T18:04:56 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-20T18:05:07 < PaulFertser> I'd do the same jpa- says
2021-04-20T18:06:34 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-20T18:06:43 < Xogium> that could work a lot better
2021-04-20T18:08:30 < Laurenceb> I dont understand drop_caches
2021-04-20T18:08:38 < Laurenceb> I do seem to have a lot of dirty cache
2021-04-20T18:09:02 < Xogium> but even so having 700 mb free shouldn't make it impossible to probe a sd card
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2021-04-20T18:12:48 < Laurenceb> nah that doesnt fix it
2021-04-20T18:13:04 < Xogium> not reall surprising
2021-04-20T18:13:11 < Xogium> *not really, even
2021-04-20T18:14:10 < Laurenceb> hmm I'll post on some forumz, maybe someone knows the answer
2021-04-20T18:14:53 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: not willing to read the source code?
2021-04-20T18:17:58 < Laurenceb> its tens of thousands of lines of spaghetti
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2021-04-20T18:18:51 < Laurenceb> if they followed their own standards, then malloc failed somewhere
2021-04-20T18:19:05 < Laurenceb> also address aaaa looks fairly common, so thats prob not wrong
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2021-04-20T18:24:50 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: in my experience upstream kernel code is quite comprehensible. And btw, you can use elixir.bootlin.com to navigate fast.
2021-04-20T18:26:19 < Laurenceb> yeah but I wouldnt know where to start
2021-04-20T18:26:27 < Laurenceb> I mean it looks like the hardware level is ok
2021-04-20T18:26:38 < Laurenceb> so I need to work out what "probe" means
2021-04-20T18:26:40 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: at the place where that error is emitted
2021-04-20T18:26:49 < Laurenceb> I have no clue from dmesg
2021-04-20T18:27:05 < Laurenceb>  mmcblk: probe of mmc0:aaaa failed with error -12
2021-04-20T18:27:10 < Laurenceb> is the only thing I know
2021-04-20T18:27:11 < PaulFertser> Yes, "git grep "probe of"
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2021-04-20T18:30:42 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2021-04-20T18:30:52 < Laurenceb> looks like /drivers/base/dd.c
2021-04-20T18:31:43 < karlp> what hardware is this on?
2021-04-20T18:32:01 < karlp> and has the card slot ever worked, or does it work with other cards?
2021-04-20T18:33:42 < Xogium> karlp: if he uses a super old ubuntu it works. Same hw, same card
2021-04-20T18:33:47 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-20T18:33:57 < Laurenceb> same with win10
2021-04-20T18:34:40 < Laurenceb> ok looks like calling the probe() function for the mmcblk0 driver gives return code -12
2021-04-20T18:35:07 < Laurenceb> so init() returns 0, then probe() gets called and returns -12
2021-04-20T18:35:11 < karlp> "probne fialed with error code -12" ? yeah, that's.... literally what it said.
2021-04-20T18:35:19 < PaulFertser> But at least mmc_add_card prints its last message.
2021-04-20T18:35:19 < Laurenceb> ikr
2021-04-20T18:35:51 < Laurenceb> I guess I know its the mmcblk0 driver that returns -12 now...
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2021-04-20T18:52:42 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-20T18:52:46 < Xogium> I'm not sure
2021-04-20T18:52:53 < Xogium> I'll have a look
2021-04-20T18:53:59 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: is that a regular upstream kernel you're testing? Or are you doing anything special with it?
2021-04-20T19:00:41 < Laurenceb> no its just standard linux mint 20
2021-04-20T19:01:00 < Laurenceb> ok looks like maybe mmc_alloc_host returns null
2021-04-20T19:02:08 < Laurenceb> which means either kzalloc failed (kernel memory allocation?) or mmc_gpio_alloc failed
2021-04-20T19:04:04 < Laurenceb> but it all looks like malloc stuff in wrappers to me
2021-04-20T19:04:12 < Laurenceb> so malloc failed...?
2021-04-20T19:07:34 < PaulFertser> Only if it got passed some invalid size I'd guess.
2021-04-20T19:08:18 < PaulFertser> I'd make it all modular and add some logging. Another option is to use kernel ftrace graph tracer to see the call sequence.
2021-04-20T19:11:09 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/SYquyoe my tips
2021-04-20T19:11:38 < PaulFertser> Probably tracing with eBPF is also applicable.
2021-04-20T19:16:09 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: do you get high on PVC fumes or why do you do it?
2021-04-20T19:17:25 < Mangy_Dog> i dont have any decent strippers
2021-04-20T19:17:35 < Mangy_Dog> certainly none that only strip a couple of mm off small wires
2021-04-20T19:18:09 < PaulFertser> Are you damaging threads with regular side cutters?
2021-04-20T19:18:23 < Mangy_Dog> well right now i dont have any
2021-04-20T19:18:34 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah cant strip without pulling or cutting threads 
2021-04-20T19:18:40 < Mangy_Dog> even on the single core wrapping wire im using
2021-04-20T19:18:50 < Mangy_Dog> its just too small
2021-04-20T19:19:05 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/seeed-technology-co-ltd/404080001/5487868   is quite ok
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2021-04-20T19:19:54 < PaulFertser> For small wires like awg30 you probably do not even need cutters, pulling with bare fingers strips them off.
2021-04-20T19:20:16 < BrainDamage> I us this kind with eveeerything https://www.beatsons.co.uk/images/fatmax-wire-stripper-150mm-p10118-6982_image.jpg
2021-04-20T19:20:31 < BrainDamage> but mine's smaller
2021-04-20T19:22:29 < t4nk_freenode> no kidding :)))
2021-04-20T19:23:27 < t4nk_freenode> well, to be fair... mine is the same type as yours :b
2021-04-20T19:24:11 < t4nk_freenode> I bought it only a few months ago, for the first time in my life I stopped using my teeth
2021-04-20T19:24:16 < PaulFertser> Hm, am I really missing something by using diagonal pliers for my whole life?
2021-04-20T19:24:30 < jpa-> i would like to get some tiny tweezer strippers for 30AWG single core wire, but all the ones i can find like 15A-ST-PE-30 cost way too much
2021-04-20T19:25:10 < jpa-> though side cutters work most of the time, it is annoying when you accidentally cut the wire
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2021-04-20T19:26:33 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: if you really want to burn the insulation off, put a puddle of solder on the tip first
2021-04-20T19:26:35 < t4nk_freenode> it's extremely unhandy having to set that screw each time, so I don't.... but then you need to be very careful not to cut a decent part of the wire
2021-04-20T19:26:46 < t4nk_freenode> think I'm starting to gett the hang now though
2021-04-20T19:27:28 < PaulFertser> I agree, I'm not fully consistent with side cutters.
2021-04-20T19:27:46 < Mangy_Dog> Sorry wasnt ignoring ppl just saw a sad post on imgur had to reply to...
2021-04-20T19:28:08 < Mangy_Dog> Ive used to use my nails too. but i just couldnt get a fine enough edge
2021-04-20T19:28:09 < Mangy_Dog> and
2021-04-20T19:28:26 < Mangy_Dog> it stretches the insultation and when it heats up and retracts a lot more than i want to
2021-04-20T19:28:33 < Mangy_Dog> checking links you posted now
2021-04-20T19:28:38 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: I use side cutters too, but for things like coax you want correct cut sizee
2021-04-20T19:29:03 < BrainDamage> otherwise you can damage the insulation, etc
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2021-04-20T19:31:15 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: agree, unless it's something not important like TV antenna :)
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2021-04-20T19:33:09 < BrainDamage> t4nk_freenode: I like it exactly because of the screew, i marked notches wit a felt marker for the wire gauges I usually use, and I simply screw until it hits them
2021-04-20T19:49:22 < t4nk_freenode> it's at least way better than chewing
2021-04-20T19:50:21 < t4nk_freenode> I'd probably still be chewing today, but when I had to chew through 3 entire atx power supplies... I cracked ;)
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2021-04-20T19:54:53 < fenugrec> I should probably replace my ~ 2001 vintage wire stripper (cheap "half-circle" type and crimper combo...), I find them pretty convenient for 10-22ga . Diag cutters (not too sharp) are ok too for thinner stuff
2021-04-20T19:56:06 < fenugrec> maybe upgrade to a fancy one like https://www.transcat.com/rennsteig-707-020-multistrip-10-automatic-self-adjusting-insulation-stripper
2021-04-20T19:56:31 < fenugrec> Hecho en Deutschland
2021-04-20T19:58:55 < t4nk_freenode> lol, it's heavily discounted!! WAS: $86.75, now is: $86.72 !!!
2021-04-20T19:59:11 < t4nk_freenode> what a price-tag
2021-04-20T19:59:27 < fenugrec> hurry up, won't last
2021-04-20T19:59:31 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-04-20T20:00:38 < fenugrec> They actually have decent prices for that kind of stuff
2021-04-20T20:09:51 < englishman> transcat is the best
2021-04-20T20:14:49 < aandrew> with DACs, is the oversampling (i.e. if you have an 8kHz sampled waveform and you feed it to the DAC at 32kHz) just there to allow you to dither the output and fake more bits?
2021-04-20T20:21:47 < BrainDamage> you have another advantage too
2021-04-20T20:21:53 < BrainDamage> the filter's smaller
2021-04-20T20:25:28 < aandrew> yes, because the filter doesn't have to be so damn steep to avoid aliasing
2021-04-20T20:37:33 < englishman> cool, sony IMX990 hybrid cmos/InGaAs sensor with visible up to 1.7um bandwidth
2021-04-20T20:39:37 < aandrew> englishman: so what's that IR-to-visible? not LWIR though? 
2021-04-20T20:40:40 < aandrew> I might have it backward, I thought LWIR was thermal imaging territory
2021-04-20T20:45:50 < englishman> yeah, SWIR has become popular the last few years
2021-04-20T20:46:19 < englishman> also it isn't export-controlled
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2021-04-20T20:54:47 < Xogium> really ? Chrome has detected that this ad consumes too much resources for your device, and deleted it
2021-04-20T20:54:57 < Xogium> I'm on a 16 gb core i5
2021-04-20T20:55:30 < Xogium> not that I complain if chrome feels the need to delete ads but
2021-04-20T20:55:43 < Xogium> just how bloody hungry are those ?
2021-04-20T21:00:09 < Steffann> happens on my phone all the time too
2021-04-20T21:00:32 < Steffann> should use an adblocker though
2021-04-20T21:00:39 < Xogium> yeah on a phone I can kind of understand, but on a core i5 and 16 gb of ram machine ?
2021-04-20T21:00:46 < Xogium> oh I already use one
2021-04-20T21:00:58 < Steffann> i mean i should get one on my phone
2021-04-20T21:02:08 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-20T21:02:13 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-20T21:02:30 < Xogium> shame that pihole can't work as efficiently as ublock
2021-04-20T21:08:32 < BrainDamage> I have ff on my phone and use ublock
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2021-04-20T21:09:08 < Xogium> yep, shame it doesn't work in the youtube app :p
2021-04-20T21:11:43 < englishman> newpipe is working fine here.
2021-04-20T21:13:06 < Xogium> hmmm
2021-04-20T21:13:23 < Xogium> sure looks good. I might see if its accessible with talkback
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2021-04-20T21:28:05 < ventyl> Xogium: vast majority of people around web development isnt' able to assess legitimity of tools used to obtain some result
2021-04-20T21:28:20 < ventyl> thus there is way more javascript out there, than it should be
2021-04-20T21:44:31 < Steffann> No there is not ventyl.. we need more of this https://y-n10.com/
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2021-04-20T21:47:11 < ventyl> Steffann: I don't understand a shit on that page
2021-04-20T21:47:17 < ventyl> and my shitty ARM laptop almost exploded
2021-04-20T21:48:28 < Steffann> haha
2021-04-20T21:52:37 < PaulFertser> ventyl: what arm laptop are you using?
2021-04-20T21:52:52 < ventyl> Pinebook Pro
2021-04-20T21:53:31 < PaulFertser> ventyl: are you happy with it? I'd preorder right now if stupid russia didn't make it hard for Pine to send it here.
2021-04-20T21:53:43 < PaulFertser> ventyl: I'm using toshiba ac100 atm ;)
2021-04-20T21:54:15 < ventyl> PaulFertser: i made it my daily driver. if you take countermeasures against little amount of RAM (which default system does by default), then it is rather usable machine
2021-04-20T21:54:22 < ventyl> definitely given the price tag
2021-04-20T21:54:32 < PaulFertser> ventyl: with NVMe?
2021-04-20T21:54:35 < ventyl> there are two things, which are wrong though
2021-04-20T21:55:01 < ventyl> yep, I have installed NVMe recently
2021-04-20T21:55:14 < ventyl> but used it hapilly without one for some 9 months
2021-04-20T21:55:17 < PaulFertser> ventyl: I'd appreciate you sharing low-RAM tricks, as I have juts 512 MiB.
2021-04-20T21:55:32 < ventyl>  /lastlog zram
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2021-04-20T21:59:09 < PaulFertser> ventyl: oh, I tried zram+zswap with different parameters but couldn't find any considerable improvement, it's just too slow and slow at the wrong time for me. What I do instead is keeping swappiness at 10 (in other words, it doesn't start to swap out pages before physcal RAM is filled beyond 90 %), so while I have enough RAM it's all reasonably fast, and then it starts swapping at the moment I
2021-04-20T21:59:15 < PaulFertser> expect (as I have RAM usage in the status bar).
2021-04-20T22:00:50 < ventyl> i've used it on macbook air w/ 2 GB RAM and it was also beneficial. it is possible that 512MB is simply too small for any usable work without starting swapping
2021-04-20T22:01:02 < PaulFertser> I also tried it on a 32 MiB AP+router device but it was just very slowly approaching the inevitable OOM thanks to that, couldn't really make unbound usable.
2021-04-20T22:03:57 < PaulFertser> ventyl: compression would be making it slower in any case. 4 GiB sounds plenty to be used without compression and swap...
2021-04-20T22:04:19 < ventyl> if it has optical drive, you can try to make swap on DVD-RAM. it will give completely new meaning to the term "same day service"
2021-04-20T22:04:29 < ventyl> it is just a barely slower than having swap on floppy
2021-04-20T22:05:47 < ventyl> PBP has two not very well designed parts - touchpad which is almost unusable and battery management system, which is total crapware
2021-04-20T22:06:53 < PaulFertser> I thought touchpad firmware can be upgraded to something almost sane.
2021-04-20T22:07:15 < ventyl> it is closed source and as of now it wasn't completely reverse engineered
2021-04-20T22:07:30 < ventyl> as it is connected via SPI to keyboard controller, which apparently doubles as touchpad controller
2021-04-20T22:07:40 < ventyl> KBC is i8051...
2021-04-20T22:08:53 < ventyl> there are some minor fixes done with keyboard handling and there are some slight improvements of touchpad behavior, but overally it is horrible
2021-04-20T22:08:56 < PaulFertser> btw, I'm using mouse emulation on QMK external keyboard firmware and it doesn't feel too bad (after some minor tweak).
2021-04-20T22:10:14 < ventyl> one problem which wasn't fixed yet is, that touchpad makes slight "jump" after you stop finger movement. it is pretty hard to adjust to it. only counter-measurement against this is to raise finger immediately after you stop sliding it
2021-04-20T22:10:35 < ventyl> then you look like some elderly person, who tries to use computer for the first time in your life
2021-04-20T22:18:57 < Steffann> PaulFertser: you can always buy the new most wonderful imac
2021-04-20T22:19:31 < PaulFertser> Steffann: probably 10 years later I might.
2021-04-20T22:19:47 < Steffann> apparently something was announced today
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 21 2021
2021-04-21T00:01:30 -!- kakium69 [575df3f3@87-93-243-243.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-21T00:01:36 < kakium69> hello evenings
2021-04-21T00:02:16 < kakium69> hello night
2021-04-21T00:04:37 < ventyl> ehlo
2021-04-21T00:05:44 < kakium69> ehl
2021-04-21T00:06:36 < Steffann> Good morning kakium69 
2021-04-21T00:06:42 < kakium69> morgon
2021-04-21T00:14:56 < kakium69> looking for my daily dose of innovation
2021-04-21T00:15:12 < kakium69> anyone building anything crazy?
2021-04-21T00:15:24 < ventyl> does RTOS count?
2021-04-21T00:15:45 < ventyl> anyway, with today's chip shortage everything is crazy
2021-04-21T00:16:35 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-21T00:17:01 < kakium69> did you have rtos challenges?
2021-04-21T00:20:43 < ventyl> i cicrumvented them by writing my own
2021-04-21T00:20:47 < ventyl> now my own code challenges me
2021-04-21T00:21:09 < kakium69> the best challenge
2021-04-21T00:21:37 < kakium69> your own os getting out of hand
2021-04-21T00:22:00 < ventyl> right
2021-04-21T00:22:15 < kakium69> tell me again why you made your own rtos
2021-04-21T00:22:25 < ventyl> but then you find out that a lot of "magic" happening in the OS is actually pretty straightforward and boring stuff
2021-04-21T00:22:36 < ventyl> because I am a creep
2021-04-21T00:22:39 < ventyl> and I can
2021-04-21T00:23:02 < kakium69> not that every other person here have done the same thing
2021-04-21T00:23:57 < ventyl> a lot of creeps then
2021-04-21T00:25:39 < PaulFertser> ventyl: but is there's anything special about your rtos? What are your tradeoffs?
2021-04-21T00:25:55 < ventyl> IDK if there is anything *special*
2021-04-21T00:26:18 < ventyl> i set some initial design constraints and started from 0
2021-04-21T00:26:40 < ventyl> it may end up as good idea as well as it may end up as useless wreck
2021-04-21T00:26:47 < ventyl> the latter has probably higher possibility
2021-04-21T00:27:26 < kakium69> you are one of those guys that write their own os for fun
2021-04-21T00:28:00 < ventyl> umm, i wrote one or two x86 protected mode kernels some decade or two ago
2021-04-21T00:28:25 < ventyl> but these were not very capable
2021-04-21T00:28:28 < PaulFertser> Are you trying to use some less popular scheduling policies, e.g. earlier deadline first or something else from academia?
2021-04-21T00:29:25 < ventyl> this is not hardcoded, per se
2021-04-21T00:29:44 < ventyl> inclusion of timers, ticklessness and other stuff is configurable
2021-04-21T00:30:02 < ventyl> technically speaking, you could swap scheduler policy mid-run if you wanted
2021-04-21T00:30:59 < PaulFertser> You'd need a specific api though, in case of EDR you'd need each process to specify their current deadline etc.
2021-04-21T00:31:19 < kakium69> rtos is so simple I learned how rtos works while configuring hello world
2021-04-21T00:31:38 < ventyl> it has a microkernel architecture, so you could run that API during runtime and make it a system call
2021-04-21T00:31:46 < ventyl> s/run/load/
2021-04-21T00:31:51 < PaulFertser> You should get some part of the QNX and VxWork's pies then kakium69 ;)
2021-04-21T00:32:19 < ventyl> actually, it was modelled vaguely following some ideas of QNX
2021-04-21T00:33:22 < kakium69> I think the business of selling rtos is more of documentation and support than rtos itself
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2021-04-21T00:36:10 < kakium69> and having established industry go-to status
2021-04-21T00:36:58 < ventyl> that's the most important
2021-04-21T00:37:00 < ventyl> actually
2021-04-21T00:37:36 < qyx> sell it to nasa
2021-04-21T00:38:10 < kakium69> doesn't every big institution have their own rtos
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2021-04-21T00:41:08 < ventyl> mostly not, probably
2021-04-21T00:41:20 < ventyl> automotive uses it's own class of RTOSes, which are open
2021-04-21T00:41:30 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Project_Zero#/media/File:AW_Project_Zero_2013.png
2021-04-21T00:41:36 < ventyl> nasa most probably buys VxWorks everywhere
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2021-04-21T01:27:40 < Steffann> So tell us about your innovations kakium69 
2021-04-21T01:27:48 < Steffann> Did you get out of jail yet?
2021-04-21T01:29:26 < kakium69> jail?
2021-04-21T01:29:43 < Steffann> Lol
2021-04-21T01:30:02 < Steffann> What else could you possibly been up to?
2021-04-21T01:31:44 < kakium69> the life of crime
2021-04-21T01:32:51 < Steffann> Ah  chances to get caught are low in Finland?
2021-04-21T01:33:55 < Steffann> So no innovations then
2021-04-21T01:34:24 < kakium69> no
2021-04-21T01:38:03 < Steffann> Awh
2021-04-21T01:38:59 < Steffann> Winter is gone, time to get out then, mr kakium69 
2021-04-21T01:39:07 < Steffann> Covid isn't real in Finland anyway
2021-04-21T01:42:20 < Steffann> But something must be happening during your night shifts, kakium69 
2021-04-21T01:43:00 < kakium69> not work
2021-04-21T01:43:12 < kakium69> too old for that.. i think
2021-04-21T01:44:03 < Steffann> Ah, too bad.
2021-04-21T01:44:10 < Steffann> Sauna time then.
2021-04-21T01:44:24 < Steffann> Damn kakium69, did you take downers?
2021-04-21T01:44:42 < kakium69> never
2021-04-21T01:45:57 < Steffann> Lack of vitamin d?
2021-04-21T01:51:28 < bitmask> question!
2021-04-21T01:54:06 < bitmask> i have switches coming, they will all work fine as is but one of them is controlling a 3V device. the switch is coming with a led and resistor set up for 12V. other problem is that the device actually needs 3V and im using atx which is 3.3V. Should I try to open the switch and change the resistor to work on 3V? or should I use a mosfet with the gate controlled by the switch
2021-04-21T01:54:49 < bitmask> also whats the best way to drop that 0.3V, should I just hope it works 
2021-04-21T01:57:12 < kakium69> 3v or 3v3 i bet it knows no difference
2021-04-21T01:57:49 < bitmask> probably, im just worried cause its a psu for a bug zapper, so its upping it to like 1-2kv
2021-04-21T01:58:13 < kakium69> what is the device?
2021-04-21T01:58:43 < bitmask> im making a cloud chamber, the high voltage is to create an electric field that supposedly makes the trails much more visible
2021-04-21T01:58:46 < kakium69> there are some chips that actually use 3v instead of 3v3
2021-04-21T01:59:00 < kakium69> and concider 3v3 as overvoltage
2021-04-21T01:59:03 < bitmask> its designed to use two alkaline batteries thats why its 3V
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2021-04-21T01:59:26 < kakium69> ah
2021-04-21T01:59:46 < aandrew> lol
2021-04-21T02:00:36 < bitmask> theres no chip, its just a capacitor, transformer, diode, transistor, and a few resistors
2021-04-21T02:00:49 < aandrew> STM32L031F6P6 is not SSOP
2021-04-21T02:01:21 < kakium69> bitmask: you bet that circuit doesn't care of 10% tolerance on input voltage
2021-04-21T02:01:44 < aandrew> thankfully I can make a TSSOP connect to an SOIC footprint
2021-04-21T02:02:06 < bitmask> i wasnt sure if I should be worried about overheating or arcing or something
2021-04-21T02:02:25 < bitmask> f030 has a tssop
2021-04-21T02:02:29 < bitmask> :)
2021-04-21T02:02:34 < kakium69> is it fly zapper bitmask?
2021-04-21T02:02:38 < bitmask> yea
2021-04-21T02:03:00 < bitmask> oh well actually theres no real current being passed, just a field being generated right?
2021-04-21T02:03:13 < aandrew> bitmask: yes, TSSOP not SOIC
2021-04-21T02:03:17 < aandrew> I made an SOIC footprint
2021-04-21T02:03:19 < bitmask> oh you want soic, i see
2021-04-21T02:03:29 < bitmask> so i see :)
2021-04-21T02:03:30 < aandrew> 10 boards made, I can make these fit, no problem
2021-04-21T02:03:38 < aandrew> and I'll fix the footprint for the production run
2021-04-21T02:04:37 < kakium69> bitmask: isn't it just a kindof "ignition coil" ran by square wave from the circuit
2021-04-21T02:04:47 < bitmask> dunno
2021-04-21T02:04:55 < bitmask> im not familiar with this stuff
2021-04-21T02:05:24 < bitmask> I'll just test it out and keep an eye on it 
2021-04-21T02:06:06 < bitmask> I mean I could always just use a schottky diode or something
2021-04-21T02:06:06 < kakium69> charge primary, cut current from primary, secondary coil arcs
2021-04-21T02:06:33 < bitmask> maybe i'll just do that
2021-04-21T02:06:45 < bitmask> not a bad thing to have anyway i guess
2021-04-21T02:07:06 < kakium69> it might not be rated for constant operation
2021-04-21T02:07:39 < bitmask> its not my idea, other people have used it, the voltage drops after a few seconds but it does what it needs to
2021-04-21T02:07:58 < bitmask> meaning it stays high enough to serve its purpose, not that it only lasts a few seconds
2021-04-21T02:08:15 < kakium69> ah
2021-04-21T02:08:55 < bitmask> alright, so I just gotta decide about the switch led
2021-04-21T02:09:32 < bitmask> I think changing the resistor makes the most sense as long as its easy to get to without damaging anything
2021-04-21T02:09:32 < kakium69> well if it's not built in a way that is easy to open
2021-04-21T02:09:45 < bitmask> otherwise i'll have to use a fet
2021-04-21T02:09:49 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-21T02:43:55 < kakium69> or transistor generally
2021-04-21T02:47:29 < BrainDamage> bitmask: the circuit is calld a blocking oscillattor
2021-04-21T02:47:30 < BrainDamage> and ofc current passes
2021-04-21T02:48:24 < bitmask> it has to be a tiny amount
2021-04-21T02:49:24 < BrainDamage> charging the plates of the capacitor takes current, moreover as charge flies by it inducs a charge movement on the plates, and therefore a current
2021-04-21T02:49:26 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_oscillator
2021-04-21T02:49:44 < BrainDamage> the transformer is integral part of the oscillator
2021-04-21T02:49:47 < BrainDamage> and as far as power supply go, it's super shit, no it won't care if it's 2V or 4V
2021-04-21T02:50:04 < BrainDamage> but the output will be not regulated either and fluctuate
2021-04-21T02:50:55 < BrainDamage> the current output is tiny, the current input is slighly less tiny
2021-04-21T02:50:56 < BrainDamage> because the effiiency is shit
2021-04-21T02:51:38 < BrainDamage> but will still be within the single mA range
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2021-04-21T02:51:45 < BrainDamage> don't use an atx psu
2021-04-21T02:52:48 < BrainDamage> high voltage circuits and especially if you're not used to build them have the horrible tendency to arcover and send a few kV back to the psu
2021-04-21T02:52:51 < BrainDamage> which will fry
2021-04-21T02:53:05 < BrainDamage> use an inexpensive usb charger
2021-04-21T02:53:44 < BrainDamage> and yes, I have burned out a few psu myself to learn
2021-04-21T02:56:28 < BrainDamage> also, fyi, an electric field won't make a cloud chamber's particles more visible
2021-04-21T02:56:48 < BrainDamage> but it'll make charged particles to take curved trajectories
2021-04-21T02:58:03 < kakium69> wait
2021-04-21T02:58:21 < kakium69> is electric field required for vapor chamber?
2021-04-21T02:58:28 < BrainDamage> no
2021-04-21T02:58:54 < BrainDamage> well, I guess one effect it might havee to make things more visible
2021-04-21T02:59:13 < BrainDamage> if it attracts vapour droplets in a area, you can have more visible trails
2021-04-21T02:59:20 < BrainDamage> by modifying the local concentration
2021-04-21T03:05:12 < BrainDamage> what do you use to conddense the alcohol? peltier?
2021-04-21T03:27:26 < bitmask> ooh boy, i dont know why i do these things, spent $43 on stupid pends
2021-04-21T03:27:27 < bitmask> pens*
2021-04-21T03:28:07 < fenugrec> are you a pentester
2021-04-21T03:28:35 < bitmask> HA ha... ha.. no
2021-04-21T03:28:43 < bitmask> :/
2021-04-21T03:29:46 < bitmask> i draw schematics every now and then and use multi colors so i just decided to buy a pack of all the pilot precise v5 rt colors and it was overpriced but I didnt feel like looking elsewhere :P
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2021-04-21T03:38:29 < fenugrec> hmm wonder if I can backorder this for the princely sum of 0.69... kit usually goes for 150-200$ https://canada.newark.com/yageo/rc0805jr-ske24l/resistor-kit-rc0805-0805-e24/dp/25M2544?st=ske24l
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2021-04-21T04:15:05 < englishman> excel is great for performing calculations on discrete series, but to analyze a continuous function am i forced to use matlab etc or is there something better?
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2021-04-21T04:19:03 < fenugrec> what kind of analysis ? if it's nice and symbolic, maybe maple/mathworks/others
2021-04-21T04:19:23 < englishman> i'd like to analyze some uncertainty functions and produce some nice plots. nothing too complex
2021-04-21T04:19:38 < englishman> just comparing formulas
2021-04-21T04:19:53 < fenugrec> yea, matlab/octave is probably the most beaten-path for that kind of stuf
2021-04-21T04:20:07 < englishman> i can do it in excel by plotting a bunch of points, but it doesn't come out nicely if i want to do a log series etc.
2021-04-21T04:20:36 < fenugrec> definitely 
2021-04-21T04:21:03 < englishman> anything both free and easy to use? maybe R?
2021-04-21T04:21:08 < fenugrec> octave
2021-04-21T04:21:19 < fenugrec> simple stuff should map almost 1:1 to matlab if you're used to that
2021-04-21T04:21:19 < englishman> neato
2021-04-21T04:21:30 < fenugrec> https://octave.sourceforge.io/octave/function/loglog.html
2021-04-21T04:21:36 < englishman> i haven't used it in about 10 years but i could get back into it
2021-04-21T04:21:49 < fenugrec> plot aesthetics may need a bit of finetuning if this is "for show"
2021-04-21T04:21:57 < englishman> nothing client-facing
2021-04-21T04:22:13 < englishman> and if it is, it's the type of client that would appreciate a clear chart
2021-04-21T04:22:42 < englishman> ok that looks great
2021-04-21T04:23:46 < englishman> thanks!!
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2021-04-21T04:23:59 < fenugrec> np, good luck
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2021-04-21T04:44:04 < fenugrec> heh speaking of excel, just spent 30min generating a table of select E96 resistor values + orderable partnos. Ain't going to pay 200$ for a kit P )
2021-04-21T04:44:22 < englishman> not when resistor books are $20 in china
2021-04-21T04:44:57 < fenugrec> link ? last time I ordered ebay resistor they arrived in a ziploc, all mixed up and *unlabeled*. What a fucking waste
2021-04-21T04:45:34 < englishman> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002208572192.html
2021-04-21T04:45:40 < englishman> mine looked exactly like that
2021-04-21T04:45:46 < englishman> got caps/resistors/inductors in 0402
2021-04-21T04:46:38 < fenugrec> hm
2021-04-21T04:47:31 < fenugrec> crap, 30% of my autogenerated partnos are outofstock
2021-04-21T04:47:38 < englishman> :)
2021-04-21T04:48:18 < englishman> these books are insurance, and it's a good idea to shop around but you can't spend too much time researching insurance...
2021-04-21T04:48:29 < fenugrec> heh
2021-04-21T04:49:01 < t4nk_freenode> this sorta reminds me of that 'rice grains on chessboard' thingy... tiny booklet of components adds up 
2021-04-21T04:50:47 < fenugrec> I try to avoid ali* ... if this shit shows up in a ziplog, I'm going to go ape
2021-04-21T04:50:53 < fenugrec> *ziploc
2021-04-21T04:52:52 < t4nk_freenode> it'll be ok; it's a real booklet
2021-04-21T04:55:58 < englishman> if it arrives in a ziploc, i'll refund my consulting fee
2021-04-21T04:56:27 < t4nk_freenode> me too!
2021-04-21T05:01:14 < ds2> Mmmmm ratshack resistor assortments
2021-04-21T05:19:19 < t4nk_freenode> hey guys.... I got some chinamen by the balls!!!!
2021-04-21T05:19:23 < t4nk_freenode> :))))
2021-04-21T05:19:26 < t4nk_freenode> "pls give us a chance,pls pls"
2021-04-21T05:19:30 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-04-21T05:31:35 < bitmask> oops, BrainDamage spent all this time telling me things and I didnt realize
2021-04-21T05:32:22 < bitmask> ive seen in many places that an electric field makes the trails more visible though no one seems to know why for sure, its not about curving the trajectories
2021-04-21T05:48:42 < Streaker> its not because an electric bias makes it easier to ionize atoms?
2021-04-21T05:49:09 < bitmask> dont know
2021-04-21T05:55:09 < bitmask> hmm so if I dont want to risk frying the atx psu, should I: A) run two power cables to the unit , B) run mains to the unit and take the 24VAC transformer out of the shell and use it separately and have the usb wallwart connected to mains in the unit, or C) use the 24VAC to create a small isolated supply for it
2021-04-21T05:55:32 < bitmask> A is obviously the easiest and most sane answer but I dont like it :P
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2021-04-21T12:22:35 < jly> any of you bastards got a match?
2021-04-21T12:23:41 < Steffann> Don't play with fire sir
2021-04-21T12:24:58 < jly> AH FUCK
2021-04-21T12:24:59 < jly> hi
2021-04-21T12:34:48 < karlp> fenugrec: is that yageo resistor book really in a branded philips binder?!
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2021-04-21T13:28:03 < karlp> maths help, if you have "polynomial coeffs" like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wCvGG.png
2021-04-21T13:28:38 < karlp> do you just say corrected = x2*input^2 + x1 * input + x0 ?
2021-04-21T13:32:44 < karlp> ok, I just plotted the difference, and it has a curve now, it looked pretty garbage earlier: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1Q6Yf.png
2021-04-21T13:32:56 < karlp> still looks like "-2.5" is pretty good out of the box...
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2021-04-21T14:10:19 < englishman> Canuck space guns for upper atmosphere and orbital research. $3000 launch cost in 1964. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
2021-04-21T14:10:24 < englishman> those crazy canucks
2021-04-21T14:14:26 < karlp> more interesting in that story is yet another mossad hit 
2021-04-21T14:22:01 < englishman> https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160317-the-man-who-tried-to-make-a-supergun-for-saddam-hussein
2021-04-21T14:22:03 < englishman> huh.
2021-04-21T14:22:29 < englishman> that's quite the life
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2021-04-21T14:55:05 < BrainDamage> englishman:  if you don't mind python, scipy and numpy are excellent
2021-04-21T14:55:06 < BrainDamage> and unlike usual open source stuff, well documented
2021-04-21T14:55:42 < BrainDamage> use them inside jupyter for a decent user experience
2021-04-21T15:03:02 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/B7r3VWP.png
2021-04-21T15:05:44 < karlp> I found setting up jupyter to be not so trivial honestly :)
2021-04-21T15:09:16 < englishman> i started using python for gpib/scpi
2021-04-21T15:09:46 < englishman> but i don't "know" python or its ecosystem, and i don't think this is the best opportunity to learn it
2021-04-21T15:14:23 < BrainDamage> karlp: under linux or windows?
2021-04-21T15:15:29 < karlp> linux
2021-04-21T15:15:40 < karlp> maybe I just got interruptd half way through
2021-04-21T15:15:43 < BrainDamage> is there no distro package?
2021-04-21T15:15:54 < karlp> it might have been last time I was in this bullshit of anaconda/miniconda?
2021-04-21T15:15:56  * karlp shrugs
2021-04-21T15:16:14 < BrainDamage> if there is, all you have to do is jupyter notebook in consoll
2021-04-21T15:16:24 < BrainDamage> or launch it from a desktoop shorcut
2021-04-21T15:16:47 < BrainDamage> yeah, i don't use anaconda and all sort of weird stuff
2021-04-21T15:16:54 < BrainDamage> distro packages work well for me
2021-04-21T15:17:16 < jadew> NSFW. Scientists have managed to isolate the bare essentials: https://justlove.ro/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Titty-Fuck-Her-Man-Q-Sophia-flesh-768x768.jpg
2021-04-21T15:17:38 < Mangy_Dog> utterly terrifying!
2021-04-21T15:20:21 < jadew> came across that while looking for wide transparent tape
2021-04-21T15:20:45 < Streaker> I can't find any transparent tape on https://justlove.ro/sex-shop-barbati/
2021-04-21T15:21:11 < jadew> I received a package recently that had a piece of A4 paper covered with a single strip of transparent tape
2021-04-21T15:21:19 < jadew> Streaker, well, one thing led to another
2021-04-21T15:21:47 < ventyl> well, that's pure result of chrome dropping jadew into single cohort with buyers of sex tools
2021-04-21T15:22:47 < jadew> google first showed me images of pantyhoses with tape
2021-04-21T15:23:20 < Streaker> I think this is what jadew was actually shopping for: https://justlove.ro/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/pompa-penis-pretty-love-presiune-6.jpg
2021-04-21T15:24:07 < jadew> I'd be terrified of using something like that
2021-04-21T15:24:29 < Xogium> LOL I'm glad to be blind so I can't see those pics
2021-04-21T15:24:37 < Xogium> sounds scary
2021-04-21T15:25:17 < jadew> Xogium, you're using text-to-speech?
2021-04-21T15:25:22 < Xogium> jadew: yea
2021-04-21T15:25:49 < Xogium> with chrome only saying 'image'. Thanks, chrome
2021-04-21T15:25:49  * karlp blows up the freertos stack again.
2021-04-21T15:26:06 < karlp> no built in stack analyser in compelxity studio, compared to cubeide...
2021-04-21T15:26:31 < jadew> well, the first toy that I found and I thought it was funny was a pair of breasts with a vagina in the middle
2021-04-21T15:26:46 < jadew> and what Streaker linked was a penis pump
2021-04-21T15:27:18 < Streaker> *with a pressure gauge.
2021-04-21T15:27:25 < ventyl> if that pump had different ending, i could find a use for it in my garage
2021-04-21T15:28:13 < jadew> I love the optimism of the designers tho: 290 mm
2021-04-21T15:28:36 < Xogium> these toys are weird
2021-04-21T15:28:40 < Xogium> :p
2021-04-21T15:28:57 < ventyl> wouldn't that cause some kind of permanent damage to the tissue?
2021-04-21T15:29:14 < jadew> that's what I've heard, that you can get some microfractures
2021-04-21T15:29:27 < jadew> but maybe that's how it grows, like a muscle :P
2021-04-21T15:29:39 < Xogium> :D
2021-04-21T15:31:24 < karlp> hrm, register view isn't live updating like in cubeide either.
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2021-04-21T16:08:20 < fenugrec> karlp, yageo/philips, probably an old photo ? not sure who bought who or whatever
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2021-04-21T16:27:24 < fenugrec> I'll order one anyway just for fun
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2021-04-21T16:29:15 < karlp> heh, xilinx soms: https://www.xilinx.com/products/som/kria.html
2021-04-21T16:38:35 < fenugrec> concentric shaft encoders are expensive... why not roll your own http://simprojects.nl/dual_concentric_rotary_encoder.htm
2021-04-21T16:39:14 < karlp> fuck me, how much is your time worth?
2021-04-21T16:39:56 < fenugrec> haha that's an insane amount of fine work for this. They are really expensive though, >20$ at regular distros (9@ lcsc)
2021-04-21T16:40:26 < fenugrec> but that's like "watchmaking meets electronics". Not my bag hehe
2021-04-21T16:41:33 < ventyl> well, if you are building artificial cockpit...
2021-04-21T16:43:37 < jpa-> perhaps one could 3d-print the lower knob, and include a gear that will then drive another encoder with a timing belt
2021-04-21T16:44:39 < jpa-> requires some funny mounting bracket though, but that could be printed also or just a bent piece of steel
2021-04-21T16:44:42 < fenugrec> probably more expedient, yeah, or just drive both encoders via gears so they can be mounted side by side on the same pcb. Still
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2021-04-21T17:44:45 < fenugrec> how does lcsc call those insulating pads that go between a to220 and the heatsink
2021-04-21T17:44:53 < englishman> hey fenu
2021-04-21T17:44:58 < englishman> x=1e-9:1e-9:200e-9;
2021-04-21T17:45:06 < englishman> plot (x, myfunc(x));
2021-04-21T17:45:29 < englishman> when i put numbers into func(x) the results are OK, but when i do the above it plots a straight line
2021-04-21T17:45:50 < englishman> what do i fail at understanding here
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2021-04-21T17:47:12 < jpa-> maybe your func doesn't like a vector?
2021-04-21T17:47:24 < fenugrec> does myfunc(x) actually return a vector of numbers
2021-04-21T17:47:52 < fenugrec> beyond that... I haven't done much of this since uni
2021-04-21T17:48:19 < Streaker> fenugrec: probably lcsc doesn't stock hardware?
2021-04-21T17:48:37 < fenugrec> Streaker, yeah I think you're right, it's a bit out of scope for them, like connectors etc
2021-04-21T17:49:27 < fenugrec> what else should I add to my lcsc cart
2021-04-21T17:49:51 < fenugrec> maybe some DB9 connectors to trigger PaulFertser 
2021-04-21T17:50:38 < Streaker> hmm they have hardware and they have heatsinks
2021-04-21T17:51:10 < fenugrec> Streaker, where ? " "heatsink" did not return any results "
2021-04-21T17:51:17 < Streaker> https://lcsc.com/products/Hardwares-Others_440.html
2021-04-21T17:52:31 < fenugrec> hah
2021-04-21T17:52:36 < fenugrec> missing a 0x20
2021-04-21T17:54:33 < Streaker> found it: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Heat-Sinks_Aavid-Thermalloy-4180G_C118015.html
2021-04-21T17:57:01 < fenugrec> Streaker, nice find, that's actually an Alu-oxide ceramic , thick pad (1.78mm), not quite what I had in mind
2021-04-21T17:57:13 < Streaker> that's all they have.
2021-04-21T17:58:54 < Streaker> their search sucks so maybe there's more but you'll have to fly out to their warehouse and search manually
2021-04-21T18:03:27 < fenugrec>  Streaker, nah it's ok. Aavid datasheet has "To order additional In-Silpads separate, please contact an aavid sales rep"
2021-04-21T18:03:54 < englishman> no, it's a scalar function, not sure how i would even write it for a vector
2021-04-21T18:04:36 < englishman> vectorization is in the "optimization" section of the octave wiki so i assumed it was optional
2021-04-21T18:04:47 < englishman> but now i see that fplot doesn't even accept scalar functions
2021-04-21T18:04:52 < fenugrec> I mean, IIRC if you do y=myfunc(x), you'd want y to be a vector. like y=sin(x)
2021-04-21T18:05:12 < fenugrec> vector or array, I forget the nomenclature
2021-04-21T18:05:24 < englishman> range?
2021-04-21T18:05:42 < fenugrec> i.e. does  myfunc() behave like sin()
2021-04-21T18:06:20 < englishman> i'm not sure. for every scalar you put in the function it returns another scalar. so in that way it is like sin()
2021-04-21T18:07:14 < ventyl> Undefined command: "ruin".  Try "help".
2021-04-21T18:07:17 < fenugrec> hm. Might need to 1-800-#octove
2021-04-21T18:07:19 < ventyl> why, oh why?
2021-04-21T18:08:22 < jpa-> englishman: usually it is pretty easy to write functions so that they do the same thing for every entry in a vector
2021-04-21T18:08:42 < jpa-> but if you don't want that, you'll just have to for loop to generate the points
2021-04-21T18:13:06 < englishman> where can i find an example?
2021-04-21T18:13:33 < jpa-> you'll have to pastebin your code and wait for ##stm32 to fix it for you
2021-04-21T18:14:16 < englishman> not much to it
2021-04-21T18:14:17 < englishman> function retval = uncert (i)
2021-04-21T18:14:17 < englishman>   retval = (i * (0.3 / 100)) + 100e-12;
2021-04-21T18:14:17 < englishman> endfunction
2021-04-21T18:15:10 < englishman> actually that works
2021-04-21T18:15:17 < jpa-> yeah
2021-04-21T18:15:18 < englishman> but when i plot the function:
2021-04-21T18:15:32 < englishman> function retval = uncertppm (i)
2021-04-21T18:15:33 < englishman>   retval = (uncert(i)/i)*1e6;
2021-04-21T18:15:33 < englishman> endfunction
2021-04-21T18:15:42 < englishman> it returns a straight line of points
2021-04-21T18:16:04 < jpa-> now there you need to change   /   to ./
2021-04-21T18:16:55 < jpa-> because otherwise it does some weird matrix or vector division
2021-04-21T18:17:31 < englishman> mmm.
2021-04-21T18:17:59 < englishman> same result but maybe i need to refresh my script..?
2021-04-21T18:18:05 < englishman> yes
2021-04-21T18:18:07 < englishman> works!
2021-04-21T18:18:20 < englishman> thanks!
2021-04-21T18:18:57 < fenugrec> glad jpa could help
2021-04-21T18:19:16 < jpa-> this phonecall was recorded for quality control purposes
2021-04-21T18:19:41 < jpa-> call 1-800-#octave again when your column vectors and row vectors get into a fight
2021-04-21T18:19:45 < fenugrec> a ##stm32 satisfaction survey will follow
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2021-04-21T20:14:56 < machinehum> Might have my first freelance client
2021-04-21T20:28:20 < t4nk_freenode> aren't you the client?! otherwise and in any case I don't think you are a freelance linguist :b 
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2021-04-21T20:40:58 < bitmask> how do isolated power supplies work, does using a transformer definitely save the original power supply from huge voltage spikes?
2021-04-21T20:41:33 < aandrew> hm?
2021-04-21T20:41:58 < aandrew> isolated power supplies are usually used to isolate the/a load from the rest of the system
2021-04-21T20:42:04 < bitmask> i need 3V for a 1-2kV supply and BrainDamage said to use a wallwart so i dont destroy the atx supply
2021-04-21T20:42:41 < bitmask> because the cheap circuit to generate the kV can cause damage to the supply
2021-04-21T20:43:18 < BrainDamage> or just use a battery
2021-04-21T20:43:34 < BrainDamage> the consumption of that thing is tiny
2021-04-21T20:43:54 < bitmask> hmmm
2021-04-21T20:50:57 < bitmask> well now im just curious, will isolating the 24VAC supply be safe too? I'm gonna do the battery at least for now but just wondering how isolated it can be
2021-04-21T20:52:40 < fenugrec> a new darwin awards contender ? heh
2021-04-21T20:58:11 < englishman> hmm, MSC1210 project
2021-04-21T20:58:29 < englishman> plenty in stock.
2021-04-21T20:58:32 < englishman> MSC1210 > stm32
2021-04-21T20:58:46 < englishman> also works with KEIL
2021-04-21T20:58:50 < englishman> why does anyone stm32 again?
2021-04-21T20:59:03 < fenugrec> do they have such a vibrant community as ##stm though
2021-04-21T20:59:40 < englishman> probably not. no problems = no community
2021-04-21T21:00:15 < fenugrec> hahah
2021-04-21T21:00:42 < fenugrec> 15$ for a 8051 with ADC and not much else
2021-04-21T21:04:10 < englishman> MSC1210Y5
2021-04-21T21:04:14 < englishman> about twice that.
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2021-04-21T21:13:18 < ventyl> fenugrec: go buy atmels. nobody wants them
2021-04-21T21:15:38 < Steffann> What is an Atmel?
2021-04-21T21:16:02 < Steffann> Atmel died 5 years ago
2021-04-21T21:19:43 < t4nk_freenode> ? is that some sort of chocolate dairy product??
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2021-04-21T21:40:16 < zyp> bitmask, I guess the point of isolating it is that if it's galvanically isolated from everything else, there's less chance of anything going wrong since current won't have anywhere to go even if it accidentally comes into contact with anything
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2021-04-21T22:32:34 < Laurenceb> wtf microshart
2021-04-21T22:32:40 < Laurenceb> worse than lunix mint
2021-04-21T22:32:56 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used office365?
2021-04-21T22:33:12 < Laurenceb> its screwing with horizontal alignment of images
2021-04-21T22:33:18 < Laurenceb> about half the time it works...
2021-04-21T22:33:42 < Laurenceb> are there any non retard tier advanced options in word for image alignement?
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2021-04-21T22:53:44 < Steffann> https://imgur.com/a/MixOjUh more easy than that Laurenceb?
2021-04-21T22:56:07 < Steffann> how much more wonderful alignment do you need? https://imgur.com/a/gLubeJ2
2021-04-21T23:04:58 < aandrew> +1 for the graphics used
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2021-04-21T23:16:24 < Steffann> and fyi Laurenceb. i never used this function before...
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2021-04-21T23:39:35 < englishman> aandrew: cad @ 0.80
2021-04-21T23:57:39 < kakium69> hello early night
--- Day changed Thu Apr 22 2021
2021-04-22T00:04:05 < kakium69> hello midnight
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2021-04-22T00:22:13 < Steffann> So how were the innovations today kakium69 ? 
2021-04-22T00:22:22 < Steffann> What you do all day? Farming?
2021-04-22T00:22:35 < kakium69> no farming there is still snow
2021-04-22T00:24:30 < aandrew> englishman: hm?
2021-04-22T00:25:40 < aandrew> wtf? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/stm32-using-spi-with-circular-dma/msg3554248/#msg3554248
2021-04-22T00:27:28 < Steffann> Lol
2021-04-22T00:27:37 < Steffann> Quaaalityyy
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2021-04-22T00:41:31 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NAcHnkF2Gw musics
2021-04-22T00:50:07 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6K_9zhRscE for finer taste of musics
2021-04-22T00:51:39 < Steffann> Thanks kakium69  some drugs .. perhaps that helps with the last one
2021-04-22T00:52:34 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-22T00:52:42 < kakium69> drugs and musics are good combination
2021-04-22T00:53:30 < englishman> aandrew: cad hasn't been this high since 2018. hope you sold all your USD. i sold at the beginning of the pandemic and at the price it is now, would have lost a shit ton
2021-04-22T00:53:53 < aandrew> ah
2021-04-22T00:54:02 < aandrew> yeah no I'm holding on to like USD$50k
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2021-04-22T00:54:18 < aandrew> but I generally don't convert, I have US expenses that I pay out of that so no conversion fees
2021-04-22T00:54:19 < englishman> ah no biggie
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2021-04-22T01:01:43 < aandrew> it seems like rx-only circular DMA is not allowed
2021-04-22T01:01:54 < aandrew> can't see why it's illegal in the RM though, maybe just a HAL limitation
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2021-04-22T01:05:30 < aandrew> I don't know why you just wouldn't do bidir transfer with the SPI TX pin *not* set to the correct AF and use a zeroed buffer for the TX side
2021-04-22T01:08:42 < bitmask> alright, I think I finally have my parts chosen and rough draft schematic drawn out for these two boards, time to altium
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2021-04-22T01:17:10 < bitmask> haha great, altium crashed and I think it corrupted my library
2021-04-22T01:17:22 < Steffann> Joy
2021-04-22T01:17:55 < Steffann> You got what you paid for bitm
2021-04-22T01:17:57 < Steffann> Bitmask
2021-04-22T01:18:10 < bitmask> thanks for that :P
2021-04-22T01:30:39 < bitmask> hmm, so disabling my internet made it work :P
2021-04-22T01:30:43 < bitmask> thats not a good sign
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2021-04-22T04:03:24 < karlp> englishman: I bet when the "plenty of stock" for msc1210 is gone, there won't be any made again for a while, I don't imagine it's high on any fab list,
2021-04-22T04:03:59 < karlp> digital features, "dual data pointer"
2021-04-22T04:04:28 < englishman> ti probably has an intern etching that shit by hand with a UV lightbulb in a bathroom with garbage bags taped over the windows
2021-04-22T04:04:57 < karlp> heh, still called burrbrown in the datasheet even.
2021-04-22T04:05:07 < karlp> you know that's rochester electronic's scam right?
2021-04-22T04:05:17 < karlp> "we have a bunch of masks, we can remake shit if you really want"
2021-04-22T04:05:22 < karlp> scam/business.
2021-04-22T04:06:12 < englishman> do they make anything?
2021-04-22T04:06:15 < karlp> what's this "no missing codes" ? I'v enever seen that.
2021-04-22T04:06:40 < englishman> yeah used to be ADCs had some gaps
2021-04-22T04:06:49 < karlp> "As a licensed semiconductor manufacturer, Rochester has manufactured over 20,000 device types. With over 12 billion die in stock, Rochester has the capability to manufacture over 70,000 device types."
2021-04-22T04:06:57 < englishman> huh.
2021-04-22T04:07:07 < karlp> your part went EOL? ask rochester!
2021-04-22T04:07:13 < karlp> seems to be a good scam.
2021-04-22T04:07:32 < karlp> main business gets to offload old dies, rochester just warehouses them all, and takes care of remaking themif anyone ever askss.
2021-04-22T04:08:02 < englishman> the missing codes was something about effective nonlinearities
2021-04-22T04:08:15 < karlp> they also seem to like just acuiring entire inventories of discontinued parts frrom teh oem.
2021-04-22T04:08:20 < englishman> why not
2021-04-22T04:08:37 < englishman> if 100% of your biz requires msc1210, and you fired all your EEs in 1999, you'll pay
2021-04-22T04:08:55 < karlp> oh yeah, it honestly seems like a pretty sane business model
2021-04-22T04:09:07 < karlp> especially getting in on all the oems, to balance it all out
2021-04-22T04:09:28 < englishman> like carmakers selling their oem contracts to china
2021-04-22T04:09:52 < englishman> so you can get brake shoes for a 1955 ford
2021-04-22T04:11:17 < karlp> went up to the volcano again this evening: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/PWWArTRnHJ3TPsw
2021-04-22T04:12:28 < karlp> hrm, https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/L3PE9yfXDtWqLL4 is probably better.
2021-04-22T04:12:32 < karlp> still jus fone shits
2021-04-22T04:12:38 < karlp> that wsa before everyone arrived too
2021-04-22T04:13:01 < kakium69> karlp: you icelander?
2021-04-22T04:13:04 < englishman> cool.
2021-04-22T04:13:30 < karlp> kakium69: you.... only just figured that out?!
2021-04-22T04:13:40 < kakium69> y
2021-04-22T04:13:56 < englishman> karl has posted his real name, address and several tax returns. how did you not know
2021-04-22T04:16:33 < karlp> bit later, more glowy: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/NXxX7NHzsF9PiNk
2021-04-22T04:21:49 < Streaker> does it smell as awful as I imagine?
2021-04-22T04:22:06 < Streaker> burning metals and sulfur
2021-04-22T04:22:52 < karlp> if you get downwind of it, yeah, pretty unwelcoming
2021-04-22T04:23:08 < karlp> with a breeze, no problem.
2021-04-22T04:30:35 < BrainDamage> how close can you get before the heat becomes scorching?
2021-04-22T04:31:03 < karlp> depends how fresh it is. 
2021-04-22T04:31:25 < karlp> I ran up and stuck a knife in it the other week, but I got "sun"burn on my face for it.
2021-04-22T04:31:48 < karlp> you can comfortably stand maybe 2-3 meters, depending on how fresh and how much of it there is.
2021-04-22T04:32:05 < karlp> this particular lava is ~1200 or so
2021-04-22T04:32:22 < Streaker> Cherry red is 800-900 no?
2021-04-22T04:32:25 < karlp> the last one I was up to vsiti, a few years ago was a different sort, only about 900-1000.
2021-04-22T04:32:46 < karlp> yeah, when this one is fresh and moving it's more yellow gold
2021-04-22T04:33:00 < karlp> my ir thermo maxed out at around 700 and just said "high" :)
2021-04-22T04:33:03 < Streaker> I guess the camera doesn't capture the true color?
2021-04-22T04:34:49 < karlp> this one has a nice "isobar" of people and temperature: https://twitter.com/brianemfinger/status/1380670960840364034
2021-04-22T04:35:18 < karlp> Streaker: eh, hard to say, that's dusk, colours all becoming redder
2021-04-22T04:35:48 < karlp> basalt emissitivy isn't the same as steel either, so not sure if colours are the same for same temps? 
2021-04-22T04:36:00 < karlp> I'm just going on what I'm told, "this lava is ~1200"
2021-04-22T04:36:17 < karlp> obviously that only applies to the runniest bits, and it crusts over
2021-04-22T04:36:21  * karlp shrugs
2021-04-22T04:37:58 < Streaker> https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-hot-a-hawaiian-volcano 
2021-04-22T04:37:59 < Streaker> Yellow indicates a temperature of about 1,000–1,200 degrees Celsius (1,832–2,192 degrees Fahrenheit). Orange indicates a slightly cooler temperature of about 800–1,000 degrees Celsius (1,472–1,832 degrees Fahrenheit). Red is even cooler, about 600–800 degrees Celsius (1,112–1,472 degrees Fahrenheit). 
2021-04-22T04:39:09 < karlp> yeah, so I could see yellow running past in places, but mostly orange liquid or red when it breaks out.
2021-04-22T04:39:25 < karlp> and it crusts over to dull red then black 
2021-04-22T04:39:41 < karlp> anyway, tonight was  good night
2021-04-22T04:39:51 < karlp> 10 days ago I went up and saw nothing in terrible weather
2021-04-22T04:40:03 < karlp> today it wsa flowing a reallllly convenient direction with good flow
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2021-04-22T05:09:33 < englishman> karlp: this gerald bull fellow was very interesting
2021-04-22T05:09:40 < englishman> university at 15, phd at 22
2021-04-22T05:09:53 < englishman> murdered by mossad at 62.
2021-04-22T05:10:31 < englishman> the real danger of cutting government funding of experimental scientific programs
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2021-04-22T13:09:36 < ventyl> ah, i like if debug build runs and release build does not run. for no apparent reason
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2021-04-22T14:13:04 < jly> ty
2021-04-22T14:13:58 < PaulFertser> ventyl: that's why you should develop with all the optimisations turned on right from the beginning, that way it'll fail early for you.
2021-04-22T14:14:16 < PaulFertser> I can't see any good reason to use a "debug" build for anything.
2021-04-22T14:15:34 < jly> is that crazy dutch guy in today?
2021-04-22T14:16:55 < ventyl> PaulFertser: if you do creepy stuff as homebrewn RTOS, it may be hard to follow dissassembly of -O2 -flto binary 
2021-04-22T14:18:06 < ventyl> also, this one runs, just the SPI does nothing
2021-04-22T14:22:01 < PaulFertser> ventyl: yes, -flto is too tricky, I agree. But -O2 is fine for debugging, you just gotta get used to it a bit.
2021-04-22T14:27:23 < ventyl> i have to get used to ARM / Thumb first
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2021-04-22T14:27:52 < PaulFertser> Were you using some other RISC before?
2021-04-22T14:28:24 < ventyl> AVR8
2021-04-22T14:28:37 < PaulFertser> Yeah, that one is quite different.
2021-04-22T14:29:03 < ventyl> uh oh and... V800
2021-04-22T14:29:18 < ventyl> and SH4
2021-04-22T14:30:00 < PaulFertser> Cool
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2021-04-22T14:38:17 < ventyl> currently, the biggest problems are caused by obviously wrong code, which works in some specific case and then breaks, once it loses my focus
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2021-04-22T15:21:46 < aandrew> PaulFertser> I can't see any good reason to use a "debug" build for anything.
2021-04-22T15:21:47 < aandrew> really?
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2021-04-22T15:22:16 < aandrew> debug symbols, being able to step through code in a sensible way? getting additional logging/etc. if that's how it's written, etc.?
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2021-04-22T15:43:02 < karlp> aandrew: nope, use trace, if you switch options for "production" you've nto debugged your release images. worthless waste of time.
2021-04-22T15:48:02 < zyp> depends what you're debugging
2021-04-22T15:49:39 < zyp> if you're debugging bugs caused by undefined behavior, you don't wanna go changing compiler options, but if you're debugging logic errors in your code, -Og makes single stepping more pleasant
2021-04-22T15:56:17 < aandrew> yep, Og and Os are the two optimization levels I tend to use (along with lto and garbage collection
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2021-04-22T16:02:40 < PaulFertser> aandrew: debug symbols are all in elf, not affecting the final binary. And when you have SWD additional logging is usually not needed.
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2021-04-22T16:05:19 < aandrew> The only time I ever try to debug the release build is when the debug build does not show the same behaviour which thankfully is not very often for me
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2021-04-22T16:14:56 < englishman> hmm finally i think this will be very time consuming to implement in octave
2021-04-22T16:15:00 < englishman> back to excel.
2021-04-22T16:27:46 < aandrew> englishman: what are you mathematically modelling
2021-04-22T16:27:59 < englishman> uncertainty in measurements
2021-04-22T16:28:44 < englishman> have to include all the components, their max and min tolerances for scale, voltage, current, then find where in the scale to find acceptable TUR
2021-04-22T16:29:40 < englishman> as some values change, uncertainty also changes... not sure how to do all that in octave
2021-04-22T16:30:25 < englishman> maybe because i don't know how to make these connections in terms of programming, but i can do it with data
2021-04-22T16:34:11 < aandrew> this sounds like mil-hdbk-217 bullshit
2021-04-22T16:34:19 < aandrew> pi-d, pi-e, pi-n, pi-r etc etc etc
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2021-04-22T17:01:26  * Laurenceb is failing at multimeters
2021-04-22T17:02:02 < Laurenceb> I put AC in to multimeter set to AC, and get the correct voltage, I think
2021-04-22T17:02:08 < Laurenceb> then it decays slowly to zero
2021-04-22T17:08:29 < Laurenceb> maybe my multimeter is screwed
2021-04-22T17:09:23 < Streaker> maybe your AC is DC
2021-04-22T17:10:42 < englishman> howcome the 10 mA scale of every DMM sucks dicks
2021-04-22T17:11:45 < Steffann> If its good at it  it would be a good feature...
2021-04-22T17:17:07 < Laurenceb> keek intermittently disconnecting the leads gives the correct voltage
2021-04-22T17:17:08 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-04-22T17:17:38 < Laurenceb> almost like it has a lock in interference remover or something insane
2021-04-22T17:18:09 < Laurenceb> ooh wait
2021-04-22T17:18:16 < Laurenceb> maybe its tuned to main frequency
2021-04-22T17:19:19 < Laurenceb> that would explain the weird behaviour
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2021-04-22T17:27:15 < Laurenceb> lol wtf
2021-04-22T17:27:20 < Laurenceb> this multimeter is shit
2021-04-22T17:27:30 < Laurenceb> its partly aliasing
2021-04-22T17:28:09 < Laurenceb> looks like they designed it so 50Hz and 60Hz alias down to close enough to DC that the "DSP" low pass can nadle it
2021-04-22T17:28:30 < Laurenceb> putting 52Hz in and its bouncing up and down
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2021-04-22T17:44:09 < englishman> well that was easy lol
2021-04-22T17:44:17 < englishman> now i have good TUR solutions for every scale
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2021-04-22T18:12:45 < Laurenceb> [455241.956058] usb 6-2: device not accepting address 21, error -71
2021-04-22T18:12:45 < Laurenceb> this is bad right?
2021-04-22T18:14:29 < Xogium> bad, depends. It sounds like one of your usb device crashed
2021-04-22T18:14:38 < Xogium> or got disconnected / reconnected too fast
2021-04-22T18:14:50 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-04-22T18:14:58 < Laurenceb> its a plugable usb audio device 
2021-04-22T18:15:00 < ventyl> it may also be caused by poor voltage
2021-04-22T18:15:00 < Laurenceb> sss1629
2021-04-22T18:15:09 < Laurenceb> I'll try usbmon
2021-04-22T18:15:10 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-22T18:15:22 < ventyl> and/or bad cable
2021-04-22T18:15:43 < Laurenceb> prob the eeprom
2021-04-22T18:15:48 < Laurenceb> I was reflashing it
2021-04-22T18:16:08 < Laurenceb> I need to work out how to get the case open without smashing it, then desolder the eeprom
2021-04-22T18:16:49 < Xogium> what are you trying to do ?
2021-04-22T18:16:53 < Xogium> just curious ;)
2021-04-22T18:17:56 < Laurenceb> create a custom usb device using sss1629
2021-04-22T18:18:08 < Xogium> hmm that sounds fancy
2021-04-22T18:18:12 < karlp> https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/16887
2021-04-22T18:18:12 < Laurenceb> it worked fine, then I tried to make it even better...
2021-04-22T18:18:42 < Laurenceb> would help if I could remeber how to make usbmon talk ot wireshark
2021-04-22T18:18:51 < Laurenceb> this isnt looking good, windows says its broken
2021-04-22T18:19:20 < fenugrec> englishman, went back to xcel ?
2021-04-22T18:19:42 < englishman> yes
2021-04-22T18:20:09 < fenugrec> let me guess, "edit axis - tick 'logarithmic scale'"
2021-04-22T18:20:32 < Laurenceb> argg wtf
2021-04-22T18:20:41 < Laurenceb> anyone remeber how to use usbmon with wireshark?
2021-04-22T18:20:52 < karlp> on linux, it just works if you are in the group group/perms
2021-04-22T18:21:02 < karlp> you just select the usbmon interface to listen on?
2021-04-22T18:21:16 < karlp> like, I'm in the "usbmon" and "wireshark" groups
2021-04-22T18:21:27 < Laurenceb> nah none of that works
2021-04-22T18:21:29 < karlp> apparently groups are still used for this, systemd hasn't consumed them yet.
2021-04-22T18:21:34 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna have to log to a file
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2021-04-22T18:23:48 < Laurenceb> somehow...
2021-04-22T18:26:50 < Laurenceb> ok found it
2021-04-22T18:29:36 < Laurenceb>  "wireshark does not understand this file"
2021-04-22T18:29:37 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-04-22T18:31:59 < Laurenceb> hmm this has got to be possible - view usbmon logs in wireshark
2021-04-22T18:32:03 < Laurenceb> I've seen it done
2021-04-22T18:33:01 < Xogium> I suppose it can be done yeah… Tcpdump use the same stuff afaik, and I've done it once
2021-04-22T18:33:11 < Xogium> so wireshark mustn't be that different, surely
2021-04-22T18:34:19 < Laurenceb> i did it once myself a while back
2021-04-22T18:34:25 < Laurenceb> grrr I should have made notes
2021-04-22T18:36:42 < Laurenceb> tcpdump -i usbmon6 -w plugable_mon.dat
2021-04-22T18:36:44 < Laurenceb> found it
2021-04-22T18:36:57 < Laurenceb> only now wireshark wont load as qt5 is fucked
2021-04-22T18:38:31 < kakium69> Steffann: f-ing sun rises like 6am
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2021-04-22T18:39:39 < Laurenceb> hmm empty response to get descriptors from host
2021-04-22T18:39:47 < Laurenceb> gunna have to desolder the eeprom
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2021-04-22T18:42:45 < Laurenceb> unless there is any other way to unbrick it...?
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2021-04-22T18:52:19 < Laurenceb> I prob accidentally corrupted the VID
2021-04-22T18:52:25 < Laurenceb> and I bet that locks it out
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2021-04-22T19:12:55 < Laurenceb> ahha 
2021-04-22T19:12:58 < Laurenceb> 24C02N
2021-04-22T19:13:14 < Xogium> is that a chip ?
2021-04-22T19:13:17 < Laurenceb> I tried flashing it with 24C04 images for the win
2021-04-22T19:13:22 < Laurenceb> make that the lose
2021-04-22T19:13:24 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-22T19:13:38 < Xogium> so you flashed a wrong image
2021-04-22T19:13:45 < Laurenceb> probably wrapped around and overwrote the VID
2021-04-22T19:13:59 < Xogium> any way to fix ?
2021-04-22T19:14:00 < Laurenceb> and the main processor locks you out if it doens match
2021-04-22T19:14:12 < Laurenceb> yeah, desolder the eeprom lol
2021-04-22T19:14:16 < Xogium> damn
2021-04-22T19:14:39 < Laurenceb> if I lift one pin, connect usb, then reconnect the pin and reflash it should work
2021-04-22T19:14:58 < Laurenceb> but I might just cannibalise this one, the case is now a bit smashed
2021-04-22T19:15:22 < Laurenceb> looks like they didnt follow SSS1629 datasheet design
2021-04-22T19:15:45 < Xogium> I didn't know you were made from chips
2021-04-22T19:15:47 < Laurenceb> 22ohm on the headphone out lol, thats gunna have to be bypassed
2021-04-22T19:15:48  * Xogium hides
2021-04-22T19:15:57 < Xogium> oh wow
2021-04-22T19:16:00 < Xogium> bypassed indeed
2021-04-22T19:16:53 < Xogium> speaking of ohms and all that, is it a good thing to connect 8 ohms speaker on a device that can do 4 ohms ?
2021-04-22T19:17:02 < Xogium> I figure not, but
2021-04-22T19:17:20 < Xogium> I'm relatively new in trying to understand audio chips and etc, so
2021-04-22T19:17:28 < Xogium> I might have gotten it wrong
2021-04-22T19:19:16 < Xogium> it sounds like it would at worst damage the coded or speaker, at best would produce distorted sound ?
2021-04-22T19:19:22 < Xogium> *codec
2021-04-22T19:20:09 < jpa-> 8 ohm speaker will work fine on 4 ohm amplifier
2021-04-22T19:20:31 < jpa-> but it will be limited to 25% of the max audio power
2021-04-22T19:20:43 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-22T19:20:50 < Xogium> so if its 1w max
2021-04-22T19:21:01 < Xogium> it would be 25% of 1w ?
2021-04-22T19:21:15 < jpa-> or rather, it *may* be limited by the maximum voltage
2021-04-22T19:21:27 < Xogium> ah voltage
2021-04-22T19:21:34 < jpa-> if the amplifier power is limited by other factors to lower than that, it may be able to do the same power on 8 ohm and 4 ohm
2021-04-22T19:22:15 < Xogium> I'm not 100% sure on that yet, cs42l52 chip seems to have a lot of doc, so that's at least something
2021-04-22T19:22:25 < jpa-> but e.g. car audio often uses 4 ohm speakers because with 12 volt you can get only 18W peak to a speaker
2021-04-22T19:22:39 < jpa-> *to a 8 ohm speaker
2021-04-22T19:22:45 < Xogium> ah
2021-04-22T19:23:01 < Xogium> yeah that's not very loud for a car
2021-04-22T19:23:29 < jpa-> not loud enough to hear outside the car, and how will you announce your presence without big bass speakers
2021-04-22T19:25:07 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-22T19:25:25 < Xogium> I blew a speaker out once by making my own hardstyle bass just for the fun
2021-04-22T19:25:55 < Xogium> it was on a cheap device and instead of just not doing bass response like most of them seem to do, it tried to handle it
2021-04-22T19:26:07 < Xogium> now if you move the device there's a piece of plastic that rolls around
2021-04-22T19:27:06 < Xogium> that was a bad idea, after all
2021-04-22T19:28:27 < Xogium> so my understanding was that 4 ohms is louder than 8, or eat least should be
2021-04-22T19:28:45 < Xogium> but sound quality might be less smooth somehow ?
2021-04-22T19:28:54 < Xogium> *at least
2021-04-22T19:30:24 < Xogium> but my main problem is I'm really bad at maths so I'm still having a hard time with audio specs and voltage, ohms and such
2021-04-22T19:30:31 < Xogium> so that probably doesn't help
2021-04-22T19:37:10 < srk> I have this ohm brainfuck as well. ideally they should match for best quality
2021-04-22T19:37:35 < Xogium> ah
2021-04-22T19:37:48 < srk> loudness also depends on speaker sensitivity
2021-04-22T19:37:59 < Xogium> thats wattage right ?
2021-04-22T19:38:10 < Xogium> or do you mean in db
2021-04-22T19:38:24 < srk> yep, in dB
2021-04-22T19:39:05 < Xogium> and it depends also on the sound coded, right ? I guess if you had a speaker that could pull off 110 db but a codec limited to 99 db
2021-04-22T19:39:13 < Xogium> *codec damn
2021-04-22T19:39:33 < srk> hmm, not sure. avoid lossy codecs :)
2021-04-22T19:39:51 < Xogium> I mean codec as in codec chip btw
2021-04-22T19:40:27 < srk> ah, right. well after codec you typically have another power stage
2021-04-22T19:40:37 < srk> some have integrated amplifiers, sure
2021-04-22T19:40:47 < Xogium> yea the cs42l42
2021-04-22T19:40:50 < Xogium> has one
2021-04-22T19:40:54 < Xogium> er, l52 sorry
2021-04-22T19:40:58 < srk> that's the one on f4 disco?
2021-04-22T19:42:02 < Xogium> hmm nop its a different one
2021-04-22T19:42:26 < Xogium> it is closer to the one on the stm32mp1 dev kit, which is cs42l51
2021-04-22T19:42:51 < Xogium> if it means anything ;) its inside the tascam dr-05 recorder
2021-04-22T19:43:48 < srk> I see. hmm 98 dB (DAC) dynamic range.. I would say dyn. range is not related to loudness as well
2021-04-22T19:47:57 < Xogium> yeah that's like a bit confusing but kinda makes sense
2021-04-22T19:52:02 < Laurenceb> doesn anyone know if 24C0X series eeprom will wrap around if you use a high address?
2021-04-22T19:55:43 < Laurenceb> oh shit
2021-04-22T19:55:54 < Laurenceb> yeah it will do even worse than wrap around
2021-04-22T19:56:07 < Laurenceb> it'll corrupt data with address bytes
2021-04-22T19:56:11 < Laurenceb> lmao no wonder it broke
2021-04-22T19:58:39 < Xogium> oh wow
2021-04-22T19:58:44 < Xogium> that's dumb
2021-04-22T20:00:41 < Xogium> or well, to me it sounds dumb but maybe it's normal behavior ? :p
2021-04-22T20:02:06 < Laurenceb> I'm the dumb one
2021-04-22T20:02:32 < Laurenceb> I should have read eeprom datasheet before I tried adjusting the eeprom size to see if it would allow me access to hidden features
2021-04-22T20:02:47 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-22T20:02:53 < Xogium> I thought you did :D
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2021-04-22T20:15:17 < Steffann> Better go back to aligning images in Word, Laurenceb 
2021-04-22T20:25:18 < Laurenceb> wew wtf
2021-04-22T20:25:33 < Laurenceb> they left WP floating and didnt solder on the I2C pullups
2021-04-22T20:25:34 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-04-22T20:25:40 < Laurenceb> no wonder its glitchy
2021-04-22T20:26:05 < Laurenceb> gunna have to do quite a few fixes to this board
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2021-04-22T20:39:13 < Xogium> srk: so if my codec is 1w max, does it mean it would be a waste to connect speakers that can do way more than 1w ? Pretty sure it is but again I might be wrong ;)
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2021-04-22T21:23:44 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Seeed-Studio/317990687?qs=hd1VzrDQEGhZOj13wvzSLA%3D%3D
2021-04-22T21:23:47 < qyx> much cool
2021-04-22T21:26:35 < qyx> The real "BOOT0" pin doesn't pinout to the module, so developers need to be careful when developing low-power applications
2021-04-22T21:26:38 < qyx> ok not that much
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2021-04-22T21:58:27 < Steffann> just keep the original bootloader and you should be fine i guess, qyx
2021-04-22T22:00:27 < qyx> I don't think it is possible at all
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2021-04-22T22:05:31 < Steffann> oh, i see
2021-04-22T22:06:42 < Steffann> seeed uses euros for size, how fancy
2021-04-22T22:17:50 < qyx> Customer End-User Certificate for EU Compliance
2021-04-22T22:17:57 < qyx> I ordered a devkit
2021-04-22T22:18:06 < qyx> I need to fax back a signed form
2021-04-22T22:18:40 < Steffann> Hah
2021-04-22T22:18:52 < Steffann> What is a fax?
2021-04-22T22:19:38 < qyx> is it still a thing in Texas
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2021-04-22T23:36:53 < karlp> "high" address?
2021-04-22T23:37:00 < karlp> you can't juse use whatever you feel like numbnuts
2021-04-22T23:39:37 < karlp> 17:02 <Laurenceb> I should have read eeprom datasheet before I tried adjusting the eeprom size to see if it would allow me access to hidden features
2021-04-22T23:39:40 < karlp> lolrencing along....
2021-04-22T23:41:56 < Laurenceb> still more compitent than sadit
2021-04-22T23:42:22 < Laurenceb> it now redirects to reddit lmao
--- Day changed Fri Apr 23 2021
2021-04-23T00:00:34 < karlp> comparing yourself to fail websdrama is.... I mean,
2021-04-23T00:00:41 < karlp> the bar's ont he ground, you're going under it?
2021-04-23T00:11:47 < zyp> so writing a two byte address to a device only expecting one address byte and then data?
2021-04-23T00:11:57 < zyp> good luck with that
2021-04-23T00:16:29 < Laurenceb> tbf I didnt know how much flash it had onboard
2021-04-23T00:16:41 < Laurenceb> I've drilled open the case now
2021-04-23T00:17:00 < Laurenceb> which was a shame but now I've found all the fails on the pcb, so can fix it
2021-04-23T00:17:15  * Xogium just found about ultra librarian
2021-04-23T00:17:20 < Xogium> this looks damn cool :O
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2021-04-23T00:20:11 < Xogium> found about it because of cirus logic, of all things
2021-04-23T00:23:04 < karlp> lolrence, iirc, there's a standard command to identify it...
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2021-04-23T00:31:08 < _unreal_> hello
2021-04-23T00:32:13 < _unreal_> anyone around?
2021-04-23T00:32:23 < _unreal_> trying to figure out how to get GRBL onto an OLIMEXINO-STM32
2021-04-23T00:32:30 < _unreal_> I just got it in the mail
2021-04-23T00:33:02 < zyp> squeeze harder
2021-04-23T00:33:11 < _unreal_> I tried
2021-04-23T00:41:17 < karlp> read the instructions you received fromyour vendor?
2021-04-23T00:43:17 < _unreal_> didnt get any
2021-04-23T00:43:24 < _unreal_> ordered from digikey
2021-04-23T00:44:14 < _unreal_> I'm trying to get the olimexino setup and I'm trying to hack an other board https://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller-cards/419158-cnc-posts.html
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2021-04-23T01:17:48 < mid-kid> Does anyone what the 1.8V in the picture on this page means?
2021-04-23T01:17:51 < mid-kid> https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32f0x2.html
2021-04-23T01:18:03 < mid-kid> s/anyone/anyone know/
2021-04-23T01:18:21 < mid-kid> Is it supply voltage or something else? I can't find it in the datasheet
2021-04-23T01:21:49 < zyp> yes
2021-04-23T01:22:02 < zyp> wait, wat
2021-04-23T01:23:01 < mid-kid> yeah, "wat"
2021-04-23T01:23:39 < karlp> ignore it....
2021-04-23T01:24:05 < zyp> probably refers to this:
2021-04-23T01:24:06 < zyp> – Selected I/Os: VDDIO2 = 1.65 V to 3.6 V
2021-04-23T01:24:21 < zyp> i.e. it got some IOs that are 1.8V-capable
2021-04-23T01:24:27 < zyp> f042 doesn't
2021-04-23T01:24:35 < karlp> but if you even click on one of the f072, it still says 2V minimum...
2021-04-23T01:24:49 < zyp> yeah, except vddio2
2021-04-23T01:24:59 < karlp> "Selected I/Os: VDDIO2= 1.65 V to 3.6 V "
2021-04-23T01:25:06 < mid-kid> Ah, that's interesting. Well, I'll just ignore that image then, lol.
2021-04-23T01:25:08 < mid-kid> Thanks.
2021-04-23T01:25:13 < machinehum> You guys every do that two seperate ground thing?
2021-04-23T01:25:19 < zyp> the what?
2021-04-23T01:25:22 < karlp> like a loser?
2021-04-23T01:25:22 < machinehum> I've personally never done it, zero problems
2021-04-23T01:25:23 < karlp> no...
2021-04-23T01:25:26 < karlp> we're not losers here...
2021-04-23T01:25:33 < machinehum> just checking
2021-04-23T01:25:38 < karlp> i pity the fool that splits their grounds
2021-04-23T01:25:40 < zyp> what separate ground thing?
2021-04-23T01:26:04 < machinehum> Like sometimes power supplies and some RF shit will be like "analog gnd" and "power gnd"
2021-04-23T01:26:09 < machinehum> Then you connect them at one small point
2021-04-23T01:26:28 < zyp> nah, fuck that
2021-04-23T01:26:29 < Streaker> looks like the core runs at 1.8V ?
2021-04-23T01:26:29 < machinehum> To avoid... what I can only assume to be gnd noise?
2021-04-23T01:27:07 < karlp> I've done star ground, with a ground tie, but not _splitting_ planes
2021-04-23T01:27:24 < machinehum> This is a simple 2Mhz smps
2021-04-23T01:27:33 < machinehum> like dude you're not getting two fucking grounds
2021-04-23T01:27:43 < zyp> the only time I've done two grounds on a board were when they were galvanically isolated from each other
2021-04-23T01:27:59 < karlp> well, those aren't even the same... duh.
2021-04-23T01:28:16 < zyp> yeah, they are potentially a couple hundred volts apart :)
2021-04-23T01:29:34 < zyp> the way I see it, there's probably a few cases where splitting up grounds makes sense, and a lot of cases when it just makes everything worse
2021-04-23T01:30:10 < zyp> and I'm not sure I could tell which is which, so I'm erring on the safe side and sticking to one
2021-04-23T01:30:29 < machinehum> I mean they recommend to connect them, just at one small point
2021-04-23T01:30:41 < machinehum> So you wont get wildly different potentials
2021-04-23T01:30:47 < zyp> of course
2021-04-23T01:31:12 < machinehum> I once was working on a project where the power gnd wasn't the same gnd as the RF ground
2021-04-23T01:31:19 < machinehum> Shocker: the boards didn't work
2021-04-23T01:33:49 < zyp> so how do you prevent power from running in your analog ground?
2021-04-23T01:34:11 < machinehum> diodes bro
2021-04-23T01:34:17 < zyp> wat
2021-04-23T01:34:32 < machinehum> Yeah just two back to back
2021-04-23T01:34:42 < machinehum> So power doesn't flow between the grounds
2021-04-23T01:34:47 < machinehum> Obvious
2021-04-23T01:34:58 < zyp> but anyway, if you're bored and want to make more polygons on your boards, just add more voltage rails instead
2021-04-23T01:35:49 < zyp> my latest board has 7 or so
2021-04-23T01:35:56 < _unreal_> OK FINALLY got it
2021-04-23T01:36:05 < _unreal_> I just got the BOOT0 jumper working
2021-04-23T01:36:13 < _unreal_> I'm hacking the mach3 stepper controller board
2021-04-23T01:36:26 < machinehum> I am currently working with 6
2021-04-23T01:36:26 < _unreal_> my goal is to get grbl onto it
2021-04-23T01:36:40 < zyp> I'm particularly happy about how my layer 3 turned out, ref. page 15: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qGj0M/orbtrace_mini.pdf
2021-04-23T01:37:04 < karlp> is that the concentric layers?
2021-04-23T01:37:07 < karlp> it was super cute :)
2021-04-23T01:37:23 < _unreal_> machinehum, nice
2021-04-23T01:37:31 < _unreal_> err zyp nice
2021-04-23T01:38:22 < machinehum> What is that little guy for?
2021-04-23T01:38:25 < machinehum> Super slick
2021-04-23T01:38:25 < zyp> karlp, yeah, outer ring is V5, and the inner three polygons are V3.3, VTREF and V5T
2021-04-23T01:38:45 < zyp> debug and trace adapter
2021-04-23T01:39:38 < _unreal_> ok simple favor to ask. I do not have any software setup on this win10 PC :( and my linux laptop right now is shitting the bed. its having over heating issues. I'm looking for help getting the stm32 arduino bootloader built for stm32f103 
2021-04-23T01:39:45 < _unreal_> Board LED tied to pin 9 PC1 active high. pin 52 PC11 is connected to the base of a 2A PNP SMD transistor which is connected to D+ of the USB port for soft reset and active low I believe, the other side of the transistor is tied to +3.3v.
2021-04-23T01:40:01 < _unreal_> the stm32f103 is an stm32f103RCT6
2021-04-23T01:40:23 < _unreal_> I have an ST-link and it will only allow me to write hex files
2021-04-23T01:41:17 < zyp> wsl?
2021-04-23T01:41:23 < _unreal_> ?
2021-04-23T01:41:33 < karlp> window linux shit?
2021-04-23T01:41:36 < machinehum> Window subsystem for lunux
2021-04-23T01:41:44 < _unreal_> ?
2021-04-23T01:41:46 < karlp> wjhat "only" allows you to write hex?
2021-04-23T01:41:51 < _unreal_> stlink
2021-04-23T01:41:51 < Ecco> Hi there:)
2021-04-23T01:41:56 < karlp> no. it does not.
2021-04-23T01:42:03 < machinehum> Ecco: hi
2021-04-23T01:42:07 < zyp> the st host side software does not?
2021-04-23T01:42:18 < _unreal_> the STVP only allows hex and some other fileformat
2021-04-23T01:42:32 < _unreal_> the windows software from ST
2021-04-23T01:42:52 < _unreal_> I only use this computer for doing CAD
2021-04-23T01:43:03 < karlp> try st cube programmer?
2021-04-23T01:43:07 < Ecco> Would you guys have a great reference schematics for a simple USB-C device? Essentially something that's really just USB2, that draws less than 500mA from VBUS, and that's properly shielded from ESD
2021-04-23T01:43:08 < karlp> whtat's stvp?
2021-04-23T01:43:13 < _unreal_> CUBE? is that hardware or software?
2021-04-23T01:43:21 < _unreal_> I have an STlink in hand hooked up
2021-04-23T01:43:22 < karlp> I don't know, what'ðs stvp?
2021-04-23T01:43:31 < _unreal_> ST-visual programmer
2021-04-23T01:43:46 < karlp> if you have an stlink, you can use openocd too, or even pyocd, or even dfu-util, but maybe not on an f103
2021-04-23T01:43:53 < karlp> I didn't notice you say f103
2021-04-23T01:43:55 < karlp> fuck that shit
2021-04-23T01:43:57 < _unreal_> do they run on windows?
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2021-04-23T01:44:03  * karlp isn't spending time on f103 support
2021-04-23T01:44:47 < _unreal_> I've been tracing out pins on this board... but with out my fedora box I'm kind of lost
2021-04-23T01:45:24 < _unreal_> this is my progress so far. I'm about to post the photos for hacking in a boot0
2021-04-23T01:45:35 < _unreal_> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller-cards/419158-cnc-posts.html
2021-04-23T01:47:30 < Laurenceb> windows linux
2021-04-23T01:49:08 < Laurenceb> wut
2021-04-23T01:49:16 < Laurenceb> dfu-util works fine on f103
2021-04-23T01:49:22 < Laurenceb> as does everything else
2021-04-23T01:51:02 < karlp> no, but only hex files dude....
2021-04-23T01:51:53 < _unreal_> ?
2021-04-23T01:52:08 < _unreal_> never used dfu or heard of for that matter
2021-04-23T01:52:45 < _unreal_> I'm a :S weak but capable arduino programmer. I'm really more of the hardware type.
2021-04-23T01:52:46 < _unreal_> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqX5FMaiwizwkp5A0lmHpWMVkC32P_WxZ3-6tw3fKjWP90ujEXEVws37aZ8SsFQA?key=LTBIU3F3bHdJUndDUEJPalJzcTFxdGlGSlBUOW53
2021-04-23T01:52:52 < _unreal_> link is my laser etcher progress
2021-04-23T01:53:28 < _unreal_> rigth now its at a canvasing company getting a welding blanket with fire retardent poly outside cover to make it "air tight ish" so I can direct the air flow
2021-04-23T01:54:19 < karlp> full set of pics from yesterday's volcano tour, for the blog subscribers..... http://tweak.net.au/pics2/2021/April/geldingadalir-se-flow/
2021-04-23T01:54:20 < _unreal_> I just got an OLIMEXINO-STM32 because it follows the UNO footprint I can user the uno cnc hat. which I'm already using an UNO to drive the laser etcher. BUT I want more speed
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2021-04-23T01:55:14 < _unreal_> arduino+grbl+RASTER=methane 
2021-04-23T01:58:02 < _unreal_> what do you guys think?
2021-04-23T01:58:06 < _unreal_> of my photos
2021-04-23T01:58:16 < _unreal_> IF anyone cared
2021-04-23T02:02:14 < _unreal_> this is what I'm trying to get loaded onto the card that I have https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/STM32duino-bootloader
2021-04-23T02:02:41 < _unreal_> I am only just starting out with STM32. never played with them before.
2021-04-23T02:03:35 < _unreal_> heh I tried asking for help in arduino or rather if anyone worked with stm32's in the arduino room. the responce was ahh COLD
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2021-04-23T04:23:16 < fenugrec> what was that page/article about a guy discussing the process of bringing up basic linux mpu systems ? lost the link, the dude did a simple pcb layout for a few different permutations
2021-04-23T04:24:12 < fenugrec> quack, quack, https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/
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2021-04-23T11:51:25 < jadew> T-58: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeIVJyufJrE
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2021-04-23T12:06:45 < zyp> fenugrec, looks interesting
2021-04-23T12:11:26 < srk> quack!
2021-04-23T12:34:23 < benishor> T-14
2021-04-23T12:35:30 < karlp> fenugrec: yar, that page was a good read...
2021-04-23T12:35:37 < karlp> I still decided to buy a module in the end :)
2021-04-23T12:40:58 < zyp> > To settle this, I empirically tested two DDR3-800 designs — one with and one without length tuning — and they performed identically. In neither case was I ever able to get a single bit error, even after thousands of iterations of memory stress-tests.
2021-04-23T12:41:29 < zyp> fun
2021-04-23T12:44:54 < zyp> I should try that ddr3 sodimm design some time
2021-04-23T12:46:59 < jadew> T-2:40
2021-04-23T12:52:26 < Steffann> T+2:40 :P
2021-04-23T12:55:05 < karlp> 10kkph crossed
2021-04-23T12:55:44 < karlp> wht's all the white background shit fluttering around on the left side?
2021-04-23T12:56:32 < jadew> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0ftYbqnJWmc/maxresdefault.jpg
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2021-04-23T13:06:19 < PaulFertser> jadew: thank you, that's enjoyable
2021-04-23T13:07:31 < jadew> yw
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2021-04-23T13:55:42 < jadew> stupid americans with their fucked up way of writing dates
2021-04-23T13:56:20 < jadew> you read a date and you have to figure out who wrote it, so you can guess what exactly it means
2021-04-23T13:57:12 < jadew> and you can't be sure anyway, because maybe they thought of the normal world when they wrote it
2021-04-23T13:57:46 < karlp> this is why I normally use the abbreviated month name itself.
2021-04-23T13:58:01 < jadew> that's a good idea
2021-04-23T13:58:20 < karlp> even in other languages, it's always close enough to not be a problem.
2021-04-23T13:58:28 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-23T13:58:44 < jadew> I write it in ISO format to avoid this issue
2021-04-23T13:58:52 < jadew> YYYY-MM-DD
2021-04-23T13:58:56 < zyp> same
2021-04-23T14:00:03 < zyp> unless a date form asks for a particular format, I use the iso format
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2021-04-23T14:00:36 < karlp> yeah, I normally use iso typed, and dd-mon-yy written
2021-04-23T14:03:29 < jadew> you mean yyyy, right? :)
2021-04-23T14:03:48 < jadew> otherwise you introduce another abiguity
2021-04-23T14:04:52 < jadew> 20-June-21
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2021-04-23T14:05:47 < jadew> and if someone asks you which one is the day, you say none, it's all the year, but I like to split it like that
2021-04-23T14:05:53 < zyp> yeah, two-digit years are also a source of confusion
2021-04-23T14:06:15 < zyp> I'd read XX.XX.XX as DD.MM.YY, but my wife is used to reading that as YY.MM.DD
2021-04-23T14:06:55 < jadew> I would read it as DD-MM-YY too
2021-04-23T14:07:25 < jadew> things were simpler when I was a kid
2021-04-23T14:07:40 < jadew> 8x, 9x <- that's the year
2021-04-23T14:07:52 < zyp> :)
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2021-04-23T15:02:14 < ventyl> waaait 11 years, most of confusion will vanish
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2021-04-23T15:16:37 < invzim> is8601 ftw
2021-04-23T15:20:10 < mawk> of course it's DD.MM.YY
2021-04-23T15:20:35 < mawk> any other ordering is stupid
2021-04-23T15:20:40 < mawk> especially the american one
2021-04-23T15:20:57 < mawk> it's always the americans that come up with the stupidest ways to count things
2021-04-23T15:21:42 < ventyl> 5-2-8-0
2021-04-23T15:27:22 < karlp> train wheels?
2021-04-23T15:28:08 < ventyl> magic constant to convert from miles to feet, or something
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2021-04-23T15:34:09 < skz81> mawk >> YYYYMMDD is not what i would call stupid, as it sorts alphabetically
2021-04-23T15:35:47 < skz81> ha about only 2 digits years... That's the stupid point i guess
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2021-04-23T15:37:52 < skz81> Does the Millennium bug give no lesson ? :p
2021-04-23T15:38:21 < mawk> skz81: yy dd mm or something
2021-04-23T15:38:24 < mawk> that's the stupid ordering
2021-04-23T15:38:27 < mawk> or mm dd yy maybe
2021-04-23T15:38:30 < mawk> I forgot which one it is
2021-04-23T15:40:24 < PaulFertser> ISO 8601. Unambigous. Sortable. How and why can one be not embracing it?
2021-04-23T15:40:37 < fenugrec> I've filled out forms that asked for dates in two different formats (birth date and date of signature I think). Peak performance
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2021-04-23T16:07:25 < englishman> wait, doesn't everyone write the lunix epoch
2021-04-23T16:08:24 < englishman> clear, unambiguous, sortable, and a compact 32 bits
2021-04-23T16:11:31 < PaulFertser> To convert to UTC you'd need to know the leap seconds historical data I guess, so not that easy.
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2021-04-23T16:14:17 < fenugrec> I use gps weekno + seconds. Comes with a free rollover every ~ 19years !
2021-04-23T16:15:06 < englishman> julian date plus swatch.beats are an acceptable alternative
2021-04-23T16:17:00 < fenugrec> damn I had to look that one up. My clepsydra is only calibrated in seconds
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2021-04-23T18:29:58 < karlp> heh, vp9 encodes at about 0.15 speed.  av1 encodes at about 0.03 speed.
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2021-04-23T18:30:01 < karlp> fuck. that.
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2021-04-23T18:30:55 < karlp> it's on track to take 20 minutes to encode a 30 second clip
2021-04-23T18:31:19 < karlp> better get some amazeballs compression
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2021-04-23T18:44:21 < jadew> youtube taught me today that if you have a big bar of steel that has cooled unevenly, either during manufacturing or during annealing, it cannot be machined to decent tolerances because the tension created inside it makes it bend as it's losing material
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2021-04-23T19:01:13 < jpa-> jadew: the typical way to handle that is to first do rough machining of all sides, and then fine machining to final tolerances
2021-04-23T19:02:07 < jadew> the guy in the video was not successful, even contacted the manufacturer and they took it back for heat treatment, but he said it came back worse
2021-04-23T19:08:57 < ventyl> was he from south africa?
2021-04-23T19:10:32 < jadew> I don't know
2021-04-23T19:10:43 < jadew> he had a dog
2021-04-23T19:10:51 < jadew> you know him?
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2021-04-23T19:14:44 < ventyl> nope, but worse result after repair sounds much like story of a guy from south africa (and that pretty much all services work like that there)
2021-04-23T19:14:48 < fenugrec> cold-rolled steel is especially bad for that. You can't really win unless you anneal/normalize first, but then you lose yield strength
2021-04-23T19:15:36 < ventyl> he got rammed on a motorbike on highway. after his injuries were healed, he started putting bike together. he restored fuel tank into its original shape and sent it to paint shop
2021-04-23T19:16:37 < ventyl> paint job was mediocre and after a week paint started cracking. so he decided that he will remove the paint and during removal, he found out, that paint shop must have dented the tank and did poor job masking it
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2021-04-23T19:17:12 < ventyl> he complained, repaired dent, gave them the tank again to do proper job and they dropped it once again and again tried to mask the fact
2021-04-23T19:18:59 < jadew> did you get the shop's business card? you can recommend them to a foe
2021-04-23T19:20:02 < aandrew> jadew: interesting. I thought annealing would "repair" that as long as you got all of the material to a high enough temp (not sure the name of that temp)
2021-04-23T19:20:39 < jadew> aandrew, yeah, but cooling seems to be equally important
2021-04-23T19:21:24 < aandrew> ventyl: sounds like the time I hit a deer (grazed it mostly) with my driver-side mirror. knocked the mirror clean off. drove for over a year like that, finally got the mirror, painted and baked, put it back on the car, drove the same fucking road and hit another deer in almost the exact same part of the road and knoced the brand new mirror off again
2021-04-23T19:21:37 < jpa-> yeah, annealing happens during cooling
2021-04-23T19:21:48 < aandrew> jadew: yes, you need to cool very slowly I think, but again I would have thought that bringing the entire piece up to temp and cooling it properly this time would have completely fixed that kind of problem
2021-04-23T19:21:52 < jpa-> and the thicker the piece the slower you have to cool it to have it done evenly
2021-04-23T19:22:08 < ventyl> i only have business card of unreliable water/heating piping & stuff shop
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2021-04-23T19:23:27 < ventyl> aandrew: you car apparently has shitty mirrors which drag attention of deers
2021-04-23T19:23:36 < jpa-> but on the other hand, by annealing you lose the thermal treatment of the piece and it becomes softer; so if you chose cold rolled steel for the strength advantages, it makes little sense to anneal it
2021-04-23T19:24:56 < ventyl> I'd expect that if part is machined, there is no hardening treatment done yet
2021-04-23T19:25:09 < ventyl> *is going to be machined
2021-04-23T19:25:16 < jpa-> hardening is not the only kind of thermal treatment
2021-04-23T19:25:50 < ventyl> right, but most probably, effect of pretty much any other treatment would be highly degraded by machining itself
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2021-04-23T19:27:08 < jpa-> depends a lot - machining can mean cutting a completely new shape out of a block, or it can mean just cutting some precise holes in an I-beam
2021-04-23T19:28:05 < Laurenceb> sss1629 status: unbricked
2021-04-23T19:28:13 < Laurenceb> I also managed to disable _all_ dsp
2021-04-23T19:28:30 < Laurenceb> so its now just 2x 96ksps 16bit ADCs on usb
2021-04-23T19:29:51 < ventyl> heh, today I've listened to presentation about design of LHC beam dampeners
2021-04-23T19:31:00 < ventyl> how much problem it is to measure and digitally process properties of something flying almost at the speed of light
2021-04-23T19:33:33 < t4nk_freenode> calm down, ventyl ... it's okay now!
2021-04-23T19:37:08 < Laurenceb> just pulling SCL to gnd was enough to unbrick it
2021-04-23T19:37:19 < Laurenceb> stop the buggy data getting pulled out
2021-04-23T19:40:48 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/plQeKur.png
2021-04-23T19:41:15 < bitmask> anyway to replace the two FODM217 optocouplers with one while still using an N channel mosfet on the lower right? :P
2021-04-23T19:42:14 < Laurenceb> hmm microphone boost is just weird
2021-04-23T19:42:28 < Laurenceb> looks like a 6dB gain stage that turns on when mic level is too low
2021-04-23T19:43:40 < Streaker> how will that work? on requires a short to gnd (PN_ON) and the other is a 12V supply.
2021-04-23T19:45:21 < bitmask> i know, thats why im asking, im not sure if theres another arrangement that would work. i guess two optocouplers really isnt that big of a deal, i'll just keep it as is, id rather not use a p channel mosfet
2021-04-23T19:45:27 < bitmask> especially for high-ish current
2021-04-23T19:46:54 < Streaker> maybe you could tap PS_ON to an n-ch mosfet.
2021-04-23T19:49:07 < bitmask> i think having an extra opto is better than an extra mosfet but dunno
2021-04-23T19:49:24 < bitmask> i think i'll keep it as is, should work 
2021-04-23T19:49:54 < bitmask> i like having the two optos in series as well to limit the voltage drop in the current limiting resistor
2021-04-23T19:56:01 < jpa-> Laurenceb: 6dB boost sounds small, i've usually seen 20dB gain stage
2021-04-23T19:56:30 < Laurenceb> jpa-: there is an adjustable 0-31db gain stage as well
2021-04-23T19:56:58 < Laurenceb> I was just trying to work out what "mic boost" was in the chinese config gui tool
2021-04-23T19:57:03 < Laurenceb> wew wtf
2021-04-23T19:57:15 < Laurenceb> somehow I've lower the noise down to 60nV/sqrt(Hz)
2021-04-23T19:58:06 < Laurenceb> this is back into AD btfo'd territory 
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2021-04-23T20:04:55 < Xogium> did anyone ever used ultralibrarian ? I just found about it and their free CAD drawings, and I'm curious what they're worth
2021-04-23T20:05:14 < Xogium> I can't use those myself but having an idea wouldn't hurt, certainly
2021-04-23T20:09:51 < jadew> I recall getting a symbol from them and it was crap, but that was a long time ago
2021-04-23T20:10:40 < Xogium> jadew: so do they make the symbols themselves or ? I gathered that's what they do, but I'm not 100% sure
2021-04-23T20:10:59 < jadew> the one I got seemed auto-generated
2021-04-23T20:11:01 < jadew> and it was bad
2021-04-23T20:11:22 < jadew> I assume they would have lots of good symbols tho, given they're making money off of this
2021-04-23T20:11:45 < jadew> so they probably have a big library of manually made symbols, or ones that are well defined, so the output is also good
2021-04-23T20:12:23 < Xogium> well, it figures they must do, because there's no way you can have more than a few hundred parts in your library
2021-04-23T20:12:31 < Xogium> if you do by hand
2021-04-23T20:12:48 < Xogium> they have over 20000 components so they must be programatically generating them somehow
2021-04-23T20:13:16 < jadew> you can probably employ 1000 indians for $5/100 parts and get lots of parts done
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2021-04-23T20:13:19 < jpa-> 20000 is not even a lot
2021-04-23T20:13:57 < jadew> some of which will be higher quality than the autogenerated ones
2021-04-23T20:14:46 < Xogium> fair
2021-04-23T20:14:49 < jpa-> i've used snapeda, but their symbols and footprints don't really feel very native, as they are just converted between different CAD tools
2021-04-23T20:15:10 < Xogium> too bad I haven't got any way to verify if they are good or not ;)
2021-04-23T20:15:56 < jadew> how do you use them tho?
2021-04-23T20:16:30 < Xogium> jadew: I can't :) I was hoping to have a friend make a pcb
2021-04-23T20:16:53 < jadew> ah, I see, I thought there's a tool that allows you to make the schematic by specifying connections or something
2021-04-23T20:17:21 < Xogium> but being blind is like, a bit complicating things when you want to check symbols :D
2021-04-23T20:17:40 < Xogium> but I sure wish there was. Pcbdl would have been good, but
2021-04-23T20:17:49 < Xogium> the dev kind of gave up on it
2021-04-23T20:17:55 < machinehum> Xogium: Not to be rude, but are you for real blind? Like how blind?
2021-04-23T20:18:08 < Xogium> machinehum: total :) and nah, not rude
2021-04-23T20:18:14 < machinehum> And how tf do you operate IRC?
2021-04-23T20:18:28 < Xogium> machinehum: mostly braille and text to speech
2021-04-23T20:18:49 < machinehum> Dude that's wild, you're a badass
2021-04-23T20:18:54 < Xogium> :D
2021-04-23T20:19:24 < machinehum> Do they have like braille keyboards or something? That dynamically move the bumps up and down
2021-04-23T20:19:45 < jpa-> it's called a braille display
2021-04-23T20:19:50 < Xogium> machinehum: well, not actual keyboard, its more like a display. Its generally piezo electric
2021-04-23T20:20:05 < jadew> Xogium, can it display shapes?
2021-04-23T20:20:10 < jadew> or just text?
2021-04-23T20:20:31 < Xogium> jadew: nah, only characters, since its not multi-line. Its a single line of 80 characters max
2021-04-23T20:23:16 < Xogium> there's a fancy multi-line one, 360 characters, but its more to be a book reader kind of thing
2021-04-23T20:23:51 < Xogium> you miss a lot of things, like routing cursors to quickly jump to a specific character, which makes it rather annoying to use with a computer
2021-04-23T20:23:52 < jadew> if there was something like a graphical display with good enough resolution, you could have an oscilloscope going
2021-04-23T20:25:05 < Xogium> yeah I think that canute display might be able to display graphics, sort of. Since it is 12 lines of 40 characters each
2021-04-23T20:25:22 < Xogium> but I kind of don't have 4000 euros to spare :D
2021-04-23T20:25:31 < jadew> wow
2021-04-23T20:25:46 < jadew> that's expensive
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2021-04-23T20:25:54 < Xogium> and its a damn good thing it ain,t piezo based ! It would be a lot more costly if it was
2021-04-23T20:26:36 < Xogium> for instance my old 80 chars from the 90's was about 8000 deutch marks, or whatever they used back in germany
2021-04-23T20:26:45 < PaulFertser> There was recently a discussion on sigrok mailing list about processing waveforms with FFT in some reasonably easy automatic way so that one could probably operate a scope without seeing it.
2021-04-23T20:26:51 < Xogium> today with euro its probably like more 15000, I suppose
2021-04-23T20:27:46 < PaulFertser> Not sure how useful that is in digital domain where you usually want to judge the edges.
2021-04-23T20:28:09 < Xogium> so if a 80 characters can be between 7000 and 15000 nowadays when its pieo, I don't even want to imagine a piezo multi-line display like canute :p
2021-04-23T20:28:17 < Xogium> 80 chars vs 360
2021-04-23T20:28:45 < jadew> I would have hoped much higher resolution displays would be available by now
2021-04-23T20:28:48 < englishman> are you blind Xogium ?
2021-04-23T20:28:52 < Xogium> englishman: yep
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2021-04-23T20:28:56 < englishman> oh ok
2021-04-23T20:29:29 < Xogium> jadew: its not really resolution as them only displaying braille characters I think
2021-04-23T20:29:39 < Xogium> but yeah I know what you mean
2021-04-23T20:30:00 < jpa-> i wonder if one could put tiny magnets in holes in PCB, and make a coil around each of them using PCB traces
2021-04-23T20:30:10 < jpa-> then have them pop up with current
2021-04-23T20:30:13 < Xogium> I was very grateful for my friend who soled me the 80 chars for 250 euros
2021-04-23T20:30:18 < jadew> jpa-, that's what I was thinking right now
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2021-04-23T20:30:51 < jadew> but you need to miniaturize it quite a bit, otherwise the resolution is going to be bad
2021-04-23T20:30:58 < Xogium> even if its an old school thing basically large enough so I can fit both my phone and my full size mechanical keyboard on top of it
2021-04-23T20:31:06 -!- funky [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
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2021-04-23T20:31:43 < jpa-> standard pitch for braille dots is apparently about 2.5 mm
2021-04-23T20:31:44 < machinehum> Did you guys every have one of those things with thousands of little pins? they all move up and down
2021-04-23T20:31:54 < machinehum> You can make an imprint of things
2021-04-23T20:32:04 < jpa-> bed of nails toy
2021-04-23T20:32:10 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-23T20:32:24 < Xogium> don't remember seeing one of those
2021-04-23T20:32:28 < machinehum> https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51E+mG-RoNL.jpg
2021-04-23T20:32:31 < machinehum> Xogium: sorry dude
2021-04-23T20:32:43 < machinehum> I guess you won't be able to see that
2021-04-23T20:32:50 < Xogium> that's fine :)
2021-04-23T20:33:01 < jpa-> and usually they put that plate of glass in front so you won't feel it either :)
2021-04-23T20:33:03 < machinehum> Immagine being able to individually address those pins
2021-04-23T20:33:20 < machinehum> I guess that's what you guys were talking about
2021-04-23T20:33:41 < jpa-> Xogium: how sensitive is the dimension / spacing of braille characters? does it become hard to read if the size differs?
2021-04-23T20:33:57 < Xogium> there's a big problem with display though, and I don't know if there'd be a way to address it
2021-04-23T20:34:15 < machinehum> Xogium: Brain computer interface
2021-04-23T20:34:26 < Xogium> the dots that move up and down eventually get dirty with finger oil and dust, which… Blocks the holes
2021-04-23T20:34:34 < machinehum> :(
2021-04-23T20:34:49 < jpa-> one could design it to be washable
2021-04-23T20:35:29 < t4nk_freenode> or just adopt some bodily hygiene ;)
2021-04-23T20:35:29 < Xogium> jpa-: in my experience, bigger is better than smaller… I'm not sure what are the actual dimentions though
2021-04-23T20:35:36 < Xogium> in between dots that is
2021-04-23T20:36:00 < jpa-> Xogium: yeah, internet has quite many specs for the dimensions, i just wondered if they had to always be exactly the same
2021-04-23T20:37:05 < Xogium> t4nk_freenode: well no matter how many times you wash your hands, the dots are rough and will tear away dead skin from your fingers as you read along. I have to wash my hands or at least put them in water at least litterally every 10 minutes during summer, getting fingers sticky with sweat is very bad
2021-04-23T20:37:41 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I know, there's nothing you can do about it :|
2021-04-23T20:37:48 < jpa-> maybe one could have some thin flexible silicone sheet on top, and pull it to the dots with vacuum
2021-04-23T20:38:02 < Xogium> and eventually it get so damn stuck in that I have to send it for yet another ultrasonic bath
2021-04-23T20:38:23 < englishman>                                           ,
2021-04-23T20:38:24 < englishman>                    ,-.       _,---._ __  / \
2021-04-23T20:38:24 < englishman>                   /  )    .-'       `./ /   \
2021-04-23T20:38:24 < englishman>                  (  (   ,'            `/    /|
2021-04-23T20:38:25 < englishman>                   \  `-"             \'\   / |
2021-04-23T20:38:25 < englishman>                    `.              ,  \ \ /  |
2021-04-23T20:38:26 < englishman>                     /`.          ,'-`----Y   |
2021-04-23T20:38:26 < englishman>                    (            ;        |   '
2021-04-23T20:38:27 < englishman>                    |  ,-.    ,-'         |  /
2021-04-23T20:38:27 < englishman>                    |  | (   |            | /
2021-04-23T20:38:27 < englishman>                    )  |  \  `.___________|/
2021-04-23T20:38:28 < englishman>                    `--'   `--'
2021-04-23T20:38:29 < englishman> can you see that
2021-04-23T20:38:32 < Xogium> where they have to disassemble the whole thing and take every part that can be washed in the ultrasonic cleaner
2021-04-23T20:38:41 < Xogium> then let them dry… Ugh
2021-04-23T20:39:30 < Xogium> I even tried IPA wipes
2021-04-23T20:39:39 < Xogium> it did nothing but damage the braille dots
2021-04-23T20:40:34 < t4nk_freenode> is the title of that picture... "Schrodinger's cat finally had enough of him"?
2021-04-23T20:41:27 < Xogium> jpa-: silicone, hmm. Maybe that would protect the dots so they don't get all dirty, while still allowing to read. I don't know, would have to try
2021-04-23T20:41:32 < machinehum> What does braille got for puncuation?
2021-04-23T20:42:01 < Xogium> machinehum: sandard ascii I think ? 255 charactes in total
2021-04-23T20:42:08 < machinehum> oh shit
2021-04-23T20:42:11 < machinehum> That's quite a bit
2021-04-23T20:42:19 < jpa-> Xogium: yeah - too bad i have so many project ideas in queue that i shouldn't start yet another experiment :)
2021-04-23T20:42:44 < Xogium> but absolutely no support for unicode
2021-04-23T20:42:52 < machinehum> But there's only 6 dots, 2^6=64 no?
2021-04-23T20:43:01 < machinehum> Or is there an 8 dot varient
2021-04-23T20:43:04 < Xogium> in computer braille there are 8 dots
2021-04-23T20:43:18 < machinehum> Makes sense
2021-04-23T20:43:33 < machinehum> Are you fluent?
2021-04-23T20:44:00 < Xogium> which is nice in a lot of ways, because it avoids having to have the symbol for capital letter, then the letter, you just add the 7th dot to the letter to signal its capital
2021-04-23T20:44:13 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-23T20:44:35 < englishman> does anyone know where i can get something like a metal hammond box that is isolated on the outside so i can safely apply a guard voltage to the enclosure
2021-04-23T20:44:42 < Xogium> 8th dot usually indicates numbers
2021-04-23T20:44:56 < machinehum> "guard voltage"
2021-04-23T20:45:03 < machinehum> wtf you guarding
2021-04-23T20:45:04 < MrMobius> to shock anyone who tries to get in the box?
2021-04-23T20:45:12 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-23T20:45:19 < machinehum> gf smoking all your weed eh?
2021-04-23T20:45:20 < jpa-> englishman: put a small box inside a large box?
2021-04-23T20:45:20 < englishman> to eliminate leakage in low current measurements
2021-04-23T20:45:47 < machinehum> lil rubber feet units
2021-04-23T20:45:51 < englishman> with two hammond boxes it becomes a little cumbersome :/
2021-04-23T20:46:05 < Xogium> machinehum: then you get even more fun with, contraction tables, yay
2021-04-23T20:46:09 < machinehum> You could coat a plastic box with foil
2021-04-23T20:46:20 < machinehum> Xogium: lol
2021-04-23T20:46:26 < Xogium> machinehum: sometimes allows to write a word with only one symbol
2021-04-23T20:46:45 < machinehum> Xogium: you must hate excel more than me
2021-04-23T20:46:51 < jpa-> englishman: http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwg2RFI.htm   this has conductive coating on inside
2021-04-23T20:46:55 < machinehum> All that little boxes all over the place
2021-04-23T20:46:58 < Xogium> lol I practically never used it
2021-04-23T20:47:14 < englishman> oh awesome
2021-04-23T20:47:50 < ventyl> Xogium: have you ever tried using stuff, such as modal text editors? or does it only increase inconvenience?
2021-04-23T20:48:21 < Xogium> ventyl: what do you mean ? You got an example ?
2021-04-23T20:48:24 < englishman> they have several series of those, thanks jpa
2021-04-23T20:48:28 < ventyl> Xogium: vim, emacs
2021-04-23T20:48:34 < Xogium> oh
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2021-04-23T20:48:50 < Xogium> personally they get confusing to me, so I stick to nano
2021-04-23T20:49:02 < Xogium> but I know some other blind folks using both of those
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2021-04-23T20:49:28 < ventyl> well, that's actually no different to people, who can see :)
2021-04-23T20:50:37 < Xogium> :D yeah
2021-04-23T20:51:17 -!- brdb [~basdb@c-73-218-240-52.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-23T20:52:14 < Streaker> emacs is not modal
2021-04-23T20:57:26 -!- CatCow97 [~mine9@c-73-96-109-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
2021-04-23T21:02:28 < Xogium> so how can you find out if a symbol or footprint from ultralibrarian is crap or not then ?
2021-04-23T21:03:00 < Xogium> I'll admit that the fact you can just create an account and downoad those for free sounds nice, but I figured there was a catch somewhere :D
2021-04-23T21:03:08 < Xogium> *download, even
2021-04-23T21:03:35 < Xogium> its not a magic pill, I suppose, but might be better than nothing at all
2021-04-23T21:09:22 < ventyl> hm, if symbols are converted from other CAD, it may end up losing some of its properties, or something is derived and not to best practices of target CAD system I guess
2021-04-23T21:09:41 < ventyl> but I don't have real experience with converted electro CAD symbols, just with converted mechanical CAD drawings
2021-04-23T21:09:50 < ventyl> there it is even worse
2021-04-23T21:10:04 < fenugrec> I know the "accelerated designs" footprints for kicad are not all good
2021-04-23T21:10:43 < fenugrec> some plain wrong size, problems with some layers (courtyard), and the schem symbols are a joke
2021-04-23T21:11:29 < Xogium> I see
2021-04-23T21:11:50 < Xogium> are there some they at least got right ? :p
2021-04-23T21:12:52 < fenugrec> yes, of course. But everything needs to be double-checked anyway
2021-04-23T21:13:07 < PaulFertser> Xogium: in any case whatever tool the EE you find will prefer will define the source for footprints etc. 
2021-04-23T21:13:38 < Xogium> fair
2021-04-23T21:13:41 < ventyl> online repository of m4 macros
2021-04-23T21:13:52 < ventyl> welcome to hell
2021-04-23T21:16:41 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-23T21:16:51 < Xogium> that sounds… Not really inviting
2021-04-23T21:17:11 < Xogium> I think you might have to be more encouraging
2021-04-23T21:17:12 < Xogium> :D
2021-04-23T21:17:14 < ventyl> also not very functional. at least i've never been able to get any usable footprint out of it
2021-04-23T21:17:40 < ventyl> but to be fair, I tried to use the tool post-mortem. even it's autors migrated to KiCAD by then
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2021-04-23T21:18:58 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-23T21:19:19 < Xogium> well, pcbdl did sound like an original, if not somewhat weird way of designing pcb
2021-04-23T21:19:48 < ventyl> i only knew about orcad, eagle and that gschem. only much later I learned about kicad
2021-04-23T21:19:57 < Xogium> it was at least almost producing good schematic output in html, that I could have used, if it had been a little bit more accessible
2021-04-23T21:20:05 < ventyl> but it is highly possible that kicad didn't exist when I first started designing ciruits on computer
2021-04-23T21:20:32 < Steffann> Are you that old ventyl?
2021-04-23T21:20:38 < Steffann> 40+ ?
2021-04-23T21:20:53 < ventyl> hm no, is kicad around so long?
2021-04-23T21:20:59 < ventyl> around and *usable* ?
2021-04-23T21:21:01 < Steffann> 29 years apparently
2021-04-23T21:21:13 < Steffann> didnt know that either
2021-04-23T21:21:26 < ventyl> IIRC kicad was almost forgotten until CERN started pouring money into it
2021-04-23T21:21:30 < Steffann> no
2021-04-23T21:21:43 < ventyl> and to me, it looks like well redacted fork of gschem & friends
2021-04-23T21:21:44 < Steffann> that not true
2021-04-23T21:22:05 < ventyl> it took me like 2 hours to get used to it
2021-04-23T21:22:26 < Laurenceb> argg wtf
2021-04-23T21:22:38 < Laurenceb> chinesium sss1629 flash tool is misbehaving
2021-04-23T21:22:47 < Steffann> are you surprised Laurenceb?
2021-04-23T21:22:50 -!- BubbaFett is now known as splud
2021-04-23T21:23:00 < Laurenceb> 0xff 0xff 0x<data> 0x<data> 0xff 0xff etc
2021-04-23T21:23:15 < Laurenceb> it was being glitchy before but now its unusable
2021-04-23T21:23:22 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to cool down the eeprom
2021-04-23T21:23:24 < ventyl> it is retired now
2021-04-23T21:24:25 < Laurenceb> hmm 24c02 is supposed to be 5ms per write cycle
2021-04-23T21:24:28 < ventyl> will gnu ld explode, if I try to specify block alignment as an expression involving that very same block size?
2021-04-23T21:24:40 < Laurenceb> I dont think its doing ack polling, its far too fast
2021-04-23T21:25:27 < Laurenceb> I guess I could solder on a tarduino and do it
2021-04-23T21:31:53 < Steffann> no, go full haxor and add the delay
2021-04-23T21:37:24 < Laurenceb> maybe they are using reject eeproms
2021-04-23T21:42:26 -!- hkl0 [~hkl0@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-04-23T21:47:10 < Steffann> use fram, then you have hardly a write delay.
2021-04-23T21:56:30 < englishman> smt fab put 7.8 ohm resistor instead of 7.5 k
2021-04-23T21:56:33 < englishman> how do you screw that up.
2021-04-23T21:56:40 < englishman> why do i bother giving my money to white people
2021-04-23T21:56:44 < englishman> when chinese do far better work
2021-04-23T21:57:59 < PaulFertser> I saw a board recently where SMT fab just didn't solder the required EEPROM at all. Or probably they did and then desoldered it for some additional manual rework and have forgotten to solder it back.
2021-04-23T21:59:18 < englishman> now imagine if you discovered this error after your satellite launched 9 years ago and is currently passing saturn
2021-04-23T22:00:51 < Steffann> Then you didnt test/check your board properly
2021-04-23T22:01:56 < ventyl> i'd expect that vibration pre-start tests would find such chips
2021-04-23T22:02:07 < ventyl> if not on first, then definitely on some later iteration
2021-04-23T22:02:35 < ds2> anyone know of a low cost dev board for a USB-C PD source? 
2021-04-23T22:04:11 < ds2> isn't the point of doing an AOI pass to check for missing components?
2021-04-23T22:05:03 < PaulFertser> ventyl: hm, I've never asked why we do not do vibration tests... And we should, we recently found one big cap had cold joints...
2021-04-23T22:05:19 < englishman> ST has a nice PD source
2021-04-23T22:05:53 < PaulFertser> ds2: yes, it should have spotted it but this smt place assembles the board, then finds it's fucked up in one way or the other, do some hand repairs on it, and then do _not_ perform AOI again.
2021-04-23T22:06:04 < ventyl> they probably do vibration tests on completely different scale
2021-04-23T22:06:13 < ventyl> as accoustic vibrations may go as high as 60g
2021-04-23T22:08:51 < englishman> STUSB4700, i know they have a devboard but i cant find it
2021-04-23T22:15:37 < zyp> this? https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/steval-isc003v1.html
2021-04-23T22:16:25 < Laurenceb> should a worn out eeprom read ff or 00 ?
2021-04-23T22:17:00 < zyp> wouldn't it read random garbage depending on which bits went first?
2021-04-23T22:17:13 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-04-23T22:17:16 < Laurenceb> good point
2021-04-23T22:17:17 < Xogium> hmm I'd think like zyp here
2021-04-23T22:17:34 < zyp> that's good thinking
2021-04-23T22:17:41 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-04-23T22:18:09 < Laurenceb> maybe the eeprom isnt bust after all
2021-04-23T22:18:20 < Laurenceb> 2 bytes 0xff 2 bytes data is just weird
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2021-04-23T22:42:29 < englishman> https://www.qcamfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/section-image.jpg
2021-04-23T23:06:25 < Laurenceb> hmm looks like my eeprom has got to be screwed
2021-04-23T23:06:28 < Laurenceb> really weird
2021-04-23T23:06:38 < Laurenceb> cant write anything different to it
2021-04-23T23:07:01 < Laurenceb> I'll get a new one resoldered on tomorrow, at least I know how to unbrick it now
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2021-04-23T23:12:02 < Laurenceb> filebin.net/xypdtsdvv9ilhxjd
2021-04-23T23:14:20 < Steffann> thanks Laurenceb.. very binary
2021-04-23T23:14:33 < Laurenceb> winhex
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 24 2021
2021-04-24T00:04:57 < karlp> englishman: wat?
2021-04-24T00:05:52 < englishman> taken from a pcba company website
2021-04-24T00:06:00 < englishman> wat is he doing to that poor usb connector
2021-04-24T00:06:33 < karlp> bending to92 pins?
2021-04-24T00:06:36 < englishman> apparently the company was acquired by a pumpndump drone company I was looking into, saw that photo on their front page
2021-04-24T00:07:04 < karlp> customer reports issue in automatic upgrades from a version released in 2016...
2021-04-24T00:07:56 < karlp> anyway, time to go under the sea I guess.
2021-04-24T01:04:38 < Guest5925> so I got the BOOT0 hack done to the board. WORKS great https://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller-cards/419158-cnc-posts.html
2021-04-24T01:04:49 -!- Guest5925 is now known as _unreal_
2021-04-24T01:33:35 -!- Laurenceb57 [2ed0cf6f@111.207.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-24T01:33:39 < Laurenceb57> wtf windozer
2021-04-24T01:33:46 < Laurenceb57> >try to load gui
2021-04-24T01:34:02 < Laurenceb57> >font is wrong size so half of gui is hidden
2021-04-24T01:34:10 < Laurenceb57> as the form size is hardcoded
2021-04-24T01:34:18 < Laurenceb57> wtf is there a way to fix this?
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2021-04-24T01:36:01 < Laurenceb57> moar fail than lunix
2021-04-24T01:36:39 < ventyl> did you just load windows 98 with more than 512MB of RAM?
2021-04-24T01:36:51 < Laurenceb57> lollll
2021-04-24T01:37:01 < Laurenceb57> almost
2021-04-24T01:37:09 < Laurenceb57> win95 gui on winxp
2021-04-24T01:37:44 < ventyl> for some stupid reason, if win98 was given more than 512MB of RAM, it fell apart to the degree, it wasn't even able to render TTF font
2021-04-24T01:37:52 < Laurenceb57> lol
2021-04-24T01:38:30 < ventyl> win3.1 would simply ignore anything above 64MB like "fuck you, I am not gonna need any of that"
2021-04-24T01:39:10 < Laurenceb57> I tried the shortcut trick ro force it to maximise
2021-04-24T01:39:21 < Laurenceb57> but that just gives me grey space
2021-04-24T01:39:38 < ventyl> daily dose of depression
2021-04-24T01:40:17 < t4nk_freenode> so why the windows in the first place?
2021-04-24T01:40:44 < Laurenceb57> because i need to run an ancient gui
2021-04-24T01:40:57 < t4nk_freenode> need??
2021-04-24T01:41:12 < Laurenceb57> yup
2021-04-24T01:41:41 < ventyl> Laurenceb57: do you run it in virtual or on real HW?
2021-04-24T01:41:47 < ventyl> maybe try to fiddle with DPI
2021-04-24T01:41:47 < Laurenceb57> real hw
2021-04-24T01:42:34 < ventyl> older SW was probably never tested with anything else than default (72 IIRC?), because no driver had implemented this correctly back then
2021-04-24T01:43:26 < Laurenceb57> hmm
2021-04-24T01:43:33 < Laurenceb57> how do I change dpi?
2021-04-24T01:43:47 < ventyl> flashback to 90s, the first time I saw 1024x768 display. standard 32x32 icons were so tiny. and I was like: so. much. pixels
2021-04-24T01:44:38 < ventyl> Laurenceb57: desktop priperties, there should be some button like "moar settings..." and there somewhere should sit a slider with DPI adjustment
2021-04-24T01:45:07 < Laurenceb57> k
2021-04-24T01:45:35 < ventyl> but it is quite a few years I've seen such system, so my guidance might not be the best
2021-04-24T01:45:51 < ventyl> and also, I an hungry
2021-04-24T01:45:53 < ventyl> *am
2021-04-24T01:46:42  * t4nk_freenode has a pizza in the oven.
2021-04-24T01:48:28 < _unreal_> t4nk_freenode, whaaaa? you got a bun in the oven?
2021-04-24T01:48:40 < t4nk_freenode> hell no!
2021-04-24T01:49:04 < ventyl> time. to sleep
2021-04-24T01:49:16 < _unreal_> t4nk_freenode, I got it working
2021-04-24T01:49:24 < t4nk_freenode> ?
2021-04-24T01:49:26 < _unreal_> I can fully read/write to that board. its hardware hacked
2021-04-24T01:49:37 < t4nk_freenode> you mean HACKED
2021-04-24T01:49:40 < _unreal_> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/controller-cards/419158-cnc-posts.html
2021-04-24T01:49:48 < t4nk_freenode> what's that url again? :))
2021-04-24T01:49:56 < ventyl> all those moments will be lost like a fart in the wind
2021-04-24T01:50:35 < Laurenceb57> doh
2021-04-24T01:50:40 < Laurenceb57> it sort of worked
2021-04-24T01:50:52 < Laurenceb57> made all font tiny... apart from the gui font
2021-04-24T01:50:57 < ventyl> until it crashed one click later?
2021-04-24T01:51:15 < t4nk_freenode> _unreal_, I honestly get a head-ache when trying to read that page
2021-04-24T01:51:18 < ventyl> do you run it on fullHD or something?
2021-04-24T01:51:31 < Laurenceb57> huh
2021-04-24T01:51:50 < Laurenceb57> just run it on 1280x1024 or whatever monitor
2021-04-24T01:52:03 < ventyl> this old SW sometimes did weird calculations using resolution and two or three Bulgarian constants to calculate "correct" font magnification ratio
2021-04-24T01:52:25 < ventyl> hm, try to deccrease resolution
2021-04-24T01:52:45 < ventyl> down to 800x600 or whatever can still be done on XP
2021-04-24T01:53:25 < Laurenceb57> yeah that jusr hides more of the gui
2021-04-24T01:53:51 < ventyl> "this wizard is unable to solve your problem"
2021-04-24T01:54:34 < mid-kid> On the stm32 chips that have crystal-less USB device support, can bootloader DFU be used without a crystal? The appnote seems to imply it can't but I'm not sure, nor why that'd be the case.
2021-04-24T01:54:37 < Laurenceb57> heh
2021-04-24T01:54:47 < Laurenceb57> mid-kid: yeah it can
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2021-04-24T01:55:13 < mid-kid> Oh, neat. Thanks. Then idk why the wording on the AN is so confusing
2021-04-24T01:55:29 < Laurenceb57> yeah its a bit horrible
2021-04-24T01:55:46 < ventyl> if it is just confusing and not straight misleading or incorrect, then you are still pretty good :>
2021-04-24T01:55:48 < Laurenceb57> I dont have my codez on this winxp machine :(
2021-04-24T01:56:16 < Laurenceb57> the bootloader runs a bunch of checks and can exit if you arent very careful iirc
2021-04-24T01:56:20 < mid-kid> ventyl: Well, it says a HSE is required for "DFU bootloader execution after the selection phase"
2021-04-24T01:56:35 < mid-kid> Looking at the graph right under that phrase I have no idea what the selection phase is
2021-04-24T01:57:04 < ventyl> chance is that neither did the one, who wrote that phrase
2021-04-24T01:57:24 < mid-kid> nice, lol
2021-04-24T01:57:51 < Laurenceb57> well I have DFU running without xtal
2021-04-24T01:58:03 < ventyl> ST datasheets are something like paper form of easter egg hunt
2021-04-24T01:58:20 < ventyl> you know that the functionality description is somewhere out there, you have just to find it
2021-04-24T02:06:09 < englishman> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56841946
2021-04-24T02:09:48 < englishman> mid-kid: from AN2606: The system clock is derived from the embedded internal high-speed RC, no external quartz
2021-04-24T02:09:49 < englishman> is required for the bootloader execution.
2021-04-24T02:10:32 < englishman> i also seem to recall that usb dfu works without xtal, maybe wait for a 3rd chat data point to confirm.
2021-04-24T02:11:56 < fenugrec> I have some F042 USB boards that can transition between USB and DFU just fine
2021-04-24T02:11:58 < fenugrec> no xtal
2021-04-24T02:12:39 < fenugrec> haven't tried other bootload methods (i.e. without USB connected) though, not sure why it would make a difference. The internal RC still runs, there's just no more CRS to lock onto USB frames
2021-04-24T02:13:06 < _unreal_> Board LED tied to pin 9 PC1 
2021-04-24T02:13:12 < mid-kid> Nice. Thanks for confirming, both of you. It's not a hard requirement for me, but certainly nice to have.
2021-04-24T02:13:39 < _unreal_> IN ARDUINO ide what would that pin be as far as defining it?
2021-04-24T02:13:55 < _unreal_> pinMode(?, OUTPUT);
2021-04-24T02:14:02 < _unreal_> for the STM32F103
2021-04-24T02:15:18 < fenugrec> crapshit, my connectors are outofstock at DK. englishman, doing any lcsc orders lately ? wonderin how long it'll take to get here (had some shipped today)
2021-04-24T02:16:22 < englishman> no havent ordered from china in a while. working for iso company now
2021-04-24T02:16:39 < fenugrec> oic
2021-04-24T02:16:42 < englishman> did you check ARROW/future?
2021-04-24T02:18:22 < fenugrec> future=arrow=newark = 0. Damn I should've thought of this before
2021-04-24T02:18:51 < fenugrec> eh, didn't expect "plastic housing" to be affected by "semiconductor shortage"
2021-04-24T02:23:22 < Steffann> Everything is affected
2021-04-24T02:23:59 < _unreal_> fenugrec, is it crapshit or shitcrap?
2021-04-24T02:25:00 < Steffann> What kind of special crapshit is it fenugrec 
2021-04-24T02:25:02 < t4nk_freenode> _unreal_, you can always try stm32cubeide if you want
2021-04-24T02:25:43 < _unreal_> never heard of it
2021-04-24T02:25:44 < _unreal_> stm32cubeide
2021-04-24T02:26:04 < t4nk_freenode> that's a meaningful remark :b
2021-04-24T02:26:21 < t4nk_freenode> REMARK
2021-04-24T02:27:50 < _unreal_> t4nk_freenode, https://github.com/stm32duino/Arduino_Core_STM32
2021-04-24T02:28:22 < t4nk_freenode> ?
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2021-04-24T02:30:43 < _unreal_> just more info
2021-04-24T02:31:11 < t4nk_freenode> lol, I aint gonna read stuff ... YOU oughtta read .. for you 
2021-04-24T02:32:02 < t4nk_freenode> you just need a tiny sliver of conscious participation bud, otherwise it will( wait for it..) NEVER happen
2021-04-24T02:36:01 < Laurenceb57> hah got the gui working with keyboard
2021-04-24T02:36:33 < _unreal_> t4nk_freenode, currently I'm waiting for arduino IDE to finish installing more STM32 support packages
2021-04-24T02:36:40 < _unreal_> still waiting
2021-04-24T02:41:36 < Laurenceb57> sheeetttt
2021-04-24T02:41:49 < Laurenceb57> >saudi arabia solar at <$10Mhr
2021-04-24T02:41:56 < Laurenceb57> its all over for stratosolar
2021-04-24T02:42:26 < Laurenceb57> now they can make cost effective synthetic diesel
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2021-04-24T02:49:02 < bitmask> can you run a 7-8mA led (ssr input) with this or do you need a transistor, its so close
2021-04-24T02:49:03 < bitmask> https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4073b.pdf
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2021-04-24T03:02:54 < t4nk_freenode> ok then _unreal_, since you've got some good reasons not to.. you're off the hook this time
2021-04-24T03:03:06 < t4nk_freenode> but I'm afraid for the near future
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2021-04-24T03:08:04 < fenugrec> Steffann, it's the worse kind
2021-04-24T03:13:02 < Steffann> No digikey results at all for that connector fenugrec 
2021-04-24T03:13:14 < Steffann> But at least its not scamtec then
2021-04-24T03:14:04 < fenugrec> actually they're nice connectors . https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/jst-sales-america-inc/XADRP-20V/1300294
2021-04-24T03:14:52 < fenugrec> 3A, 250V, beefy lock
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2021-04-24T03:49:36 < _unreal_> t4nk_freenode, this one seems to be the most helpful so far
2021-04-24T03:49:55 < _unreal_> though the STVP software wont program the damn thing keeps complaining
2021-04-24T03:50:02 < _unreal_> about not in hex format? https://github.com/pvico/grbl32
2021-04-24T03:52:56 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, you should definitely read that page!
2021-04-24T03:53:19 < t4nk_freenode> but you're not following it
2021-04-24T03:53:56 < t4nk_freenode> what files are you trying to flash
2021-04-24T03:56:33 < t4nk_freenode> never heard of stvp, but the format is ihex
2021-04-24T03:56:49 < t4nk_freenode> guess you'd need to specify that
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2021-04-24T04:09:39 < _unreal_> STVP is from ST.COM its ST visual programmer
2021-04-24T04:09:57 < _unreal_> I dont know of any software off the top off my head that works on win10 with the STlink to write hex files?
2021-04-24T04:10:36 < t4nk_freenode> then read the manual and find out how to specify --format ihex with it
2021-04-24T04:10:46 < _unreal_> I was hoping to just BURN the hex files and see if it will recognize it as a GRBL FULL well knowing that the config.h WOULD HAVE TO BE adjusted to correct PIN assignemtns
2021-04-24T04:11:00 < _unreal_> untill I get a linux box setup!!!! OHHHH
2021-04-24T04:11:09 < _unreal_> I just remembered
2021-04-24T04:11:33 < _unreal_> this is a working linux box https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNjUL9VJW4BIh58ZOHM6jOWS10l43lfzL_nr7FMD-YXm_o6hG63BfTN2Rv6ch6C_Q?key=OVV0UTBXUmF0NXNSR2NKVzdoaFhxQzVTbDI5V3JB
2021-04-24T04:11:41 < _unreal_> not sure where the keyboard is
2021-04-24T04:12:10 < _unreal_> but its running I believe rasbian
2021-04-24T04:12:41 < _unreal_> ! my tinker board is sitting in front of me as well thats running armbian but that thing has BOOTING issues
2021-04-24T04:12:48 < _unreal_> hum
2021-04-24T04:12:48 < t4nk_freenode> you'd do anything but read a manual ey?
2021-04-24T04:12:50 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-04-24T04:13:00 < _unreal_> i CANT compile 
2021-04-24T04:13:06 < _unreal_> I need a linux box setup
2021-04-24T04:13:14 < _unreal_> everything is based on using mac or linux for compiling
2021-04-24T04:13:57 < _unreal_> :S I just suddenly got a ICK sick feeling for a few
2021-04-24T04:14:10 < _unreal_> I did a big fiberglass job today inside of a fuel tank
2021-04-24T04:14:17 < t4nk_freenode> 2 minutes ago you were looking to specify --format ihex to that tvspwhatever... now you need to be compiling/
2021-04-24T04:14:33 < _unreal_> and the guy helping me kept pulling out the extraction hose and forgetting to put it back in
2021-04-24T04:14:48 < _unreal_> THEN he had his knee INSIDE the damn tube for a few min. fumes got bad
2021-04-24T04:14:53 < _unreal_> even with resperators
2021-04-24T04:15:21 < _unreal_> I need to compile regardless. those HEX files are pre-compiled
2021-04-24T04:15:28 < t4nk_freenode> I hate raspburrraders
2021-04-24T04:15:51 < _unreal_> they willl run on the chip. but not be coded for the hard wired wiring/traces of the board(s)
2021-04-24T04:19:28 < t4nk_freenode> so install a virtual machine with linux in it, or 'fix' the linux laptop
2021-04-24T04:19:46 < t4nk_freenode> or read the vpspvpsts manual on how to specify the format
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2021-04-24T04:22:02 < _unreal_> there are no options in stvp to change the format
2021-04-24T04:25:54 < t4nk_freenode> STM32CubeProg has replaced stvp, by the looks of it.
2021-04-24T04:25:55 < _unreal_> gaaaa.. theres an other one. like a COLD chill ddown my entire boxy
2021-04-24T04:26:33 < _unreal_> Styrene over dose
2021-04-24T04:26:44 < t4nk_freenode> STM32CubeProg has replaced stvp, by the looks of it.
2021-04-24T04:26:51 < _unreal_> I'm downloading STM32CubePrg-W64 right now
2021-04-24T04:28:41 < _unreal_> lol windows is crying that its un signed software
2021-04-24T04:32:20 < _unreal_> well the software is installed. and likes the STLINK very much
2021-04-24T04:32:27 < _unreal_> but still does not like the pre-compiled software
2021-04-24T04:32:39 < _unreal_> time for din din back in a bit
2021-04-24T05:13:30 < aandrew> wtf
2021-04-24T05:13:35 < aandrew> stm32l031 no uart bootloader
2021-04-24T05:13:53 < aandrew> verified the connections, tried forcing boot1=1, looped back tx/rx with chip in reset
2021-04-24T05:14:11 < aandrew> 96008E1 also 1152008E1 no dice
2021-04-24T05:14:17 < aandrew> don't want to bust out the jlink
2021-04-24T05:15:20 < aandrew> swdio pulled up, swdck pulled down
2021-04-24T05:15:22 < aandrew> that should be right
2021-04-24T05:17:51 < aandrew> ugh I gues it's jlink time
2021-04-24T05:21:44 < ds2> zyp: thanks... that's reasonably priced... the TI one I looked at was > $150
2021-04-24T05:23:00 < ds2> arrg... NRND and out of stock
2021-04-24T05:26:33 < fenugrec> aandrew, heh I had some weirdness a bit like that on a F042 , but it was the other way around - no answer on SWD, but UART bootloader worked fine. Chip had some other issues though, had to trash it
2021-04-24T05:27:57 < aandrew> comes up perfectly on swd
2021-04-24T05:28:23 < aandrew> wonder what the problem is on this one
2021-04-24T05:28:40 < fenugrec> didn't accidentally the nBOOT config bits ?
2021-04-24T05:31:23 < fenugrec> doesn't matter maybe. I find the nBOOT/BOOT tables confusing
2021-04-24T05:35:12 < ds2> so close..that would have been a nice board
2021-04-24T05:37:26 < aandrew> fenugrec: I've never flashed this chip b efore
2021-04-24T05:38:09 < aandrew> the flash seems to read as all zeroes
2021-04-24T05:38:14 < aandrew> that's not right
2021-04-24T05:38:24 < aandrew> even after erase, 0x00000000 is all zeroes
2021-04-24T05:38:39 < aandrew> boot0 is 0 not 1 so it should be flash
2021-04-24T05:39:05 < aandrew> even 08000000 is all zeroes
2021-04-24T06:07:43 < aandrew> yep second one acting exactly the same way
2021-04-24T06:07:45 < aandrew> weird
2021-04-24T06:07:56 < aandrew> I guess I'll have to write a blinky and make sure the chip's working
2021-04-24T06:18:24 < aandrew> flash programs just fine, retains its settings, but blank shows up as zeroes
2021-04-24T06:18:50 < aandrew> never run across that before
2021-04-24T06:28:44 < t4nk_freenode> _unreal_, ... I took a blue pill, just for fun
2021-04-24T06:28:45 < t4nk_freenode> <Alarm|MPos:0.000,0.000,0.000|Bf:35,254|FS:0,0>
2021-04-24T06:28:59 < t4nk_freenode> .... it's working perfectly fine here
2021-04-24T06:30:02 < t4nk_freenode> but... the sliver of conciousness I was talking about... youknow
2021-04-24T06:30:06 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-04-24T06:30:08 < t4nk_freenode> https://github.com/pvico/grbl32/tree/master/Release
2021-04-24T06:30:31 < t4nk_freenode> have a look, and figure out why it perhaps wouldn't work...
2021-04-24T06:31:19 < t4nk_freenode> well, it won't happen, I know :))
2021-04-24T06:31:44 < t4nk_freenode> but they are html files, I can reveal to you.
2021-04-24T06:43:53 < t4nk_freenode> kewl, I'm learning grbl!! ;)
2021-04-24T06:44:12 < t4nk_freenode> <Idle|MPos:12.700,0.000,0.000|Bf:35,254|FS:0,0>
2021-04-24T06:44:20 < t4nk_freenode> there... now I'm done :)
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2021-04-24T12:51:51 < jpa-> i didn't know LaurenceB was coding financial software also   https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/23/22399721/uk-post-office-software-bug-criminal-convictions-overturned
2021-04-24T12:57:07 < Steffann> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_Ty_72Qds so its true for brits.
2021-04-24T13:00:31 < Steffann> similar shit is what happened in dutchland jpa- . The thing why our government resigned a while back.
2021-04-24T13:07:21 < Xogium> sigh. Am I the only one who thinks that having no pmic on a board is a *bad* idea ?
2021-04-24T13:07:24 < Xogium> honestly
2021-04-24T13:07:34 < Xogium> either integrated or external
2021-04-24T13:08:53 < Streaker> pmics have only recently become useful. in the past everything ran at the same voltage 5V or 3.3V and there were no batteries that needed charging.
2021-04-24T13:09:08 < Xogium> I meant more for like, thermal control
2021-04-24T13:09:39 < Xogium> in case the software you run is particularly dumb and doesn't power off the hardware when it freaking overheats
2021-04-24T13:09:47  * Xogium looks at u-boot
2021-04-24T13:12:57 < Xogium> yep what I thought… Mainline u-boot doesn't react to the interrupts the h2+ SoC sends
2021-04-24T13:13:28 < Xogium> and dince the board didn't have a pmic, well it melted down. Litterally
2021-04-24T13:13:49 < Streaker> while booting up?
2021-04-24T13:13:54 < Xogium> yep
2021-04-24T13:14:29 < Xogium> it got stuck in u-boot because of a failure in the boot script, stayed there for about 2 minutes then started overheating and melting its plastic case
2021-04-24T13:14:55 < Xogium> now the cae is feeling like fudge probably, and the board inside isn't blue anymore, its discolored
2021-04-24T13:15:06 < Xogium> *case
2021-04-24T13:15:52 < Xogium> what a mess :O
2021-04-24T13:16:11 < Streaker> what board is this? one of the fruit-pi's?
2021-04-24T13:16:15 < Xogium> looks like I made a system image that can destroy h2+ boards x.x
2021-04-24T13:16:19 < Xogium> yep
2021-04-24T13:16:28 < Xogium> orange pi zero
2021-04-24T13:16:58 < Xogium> it happened to me a few months ago, but now I've reproduced it. Again
2021-04-24T13:17:59 < Xogium> it was a, er… rev 1.4 and rev 1.5 I think
2021-04-24T13:18:38 < Streaker> buy a 90 degree thermal fuse and glue it to the mcu.  https://www.amazon.com/20pcs-Degree-Celsius-Temperature-Thermal/dp/B07KQGSF6N
2021-04-24T13:18:41 < Xogium> final temp was around 170C according to the thermocouple my friend connected
2021-04-24T13:19:38 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-24T13:19:48 < Xogium> that looks useful
2021-04-24T13:20:23 < Xogium> so if it gets to 90, it will cut off power supply right away ?
2021-04-24T13:20:47 < Streaker> not instantly, but fast enough.
2021-04-24T13:20:53 < Xogium> nice
2021-04-24T13:21:11 < Xogium> I didn't know such things existed. That's a neat thing to have
2021-04-24T13:21:31 < Streaker> I've avoided burning down my house by using them in my diy projects.
2021-04-24T13:21:39 < Xogium> yeah, I bet
2021-04-24T13:22:20 < karlp> those are basically one of the fundamental parts of a sandwichi grill or waffle iron...
2021-04-24T13:22:32 < karlp> you can get them in lots of temperatures
2021-04-24T13:23:07 < Xogium> awesome
2021-04-24T13:23:14 < PaulFertser> Also, installed on stators of household AC motors.
2021-04-24T13:23:54 < PaulFertser> And when mains frequency transformers were common, they had something similar right there on top of the coil too. 
2021-04-24T13:24:04 < karlp> aandrew: did you sort out yoru l031 issue?
2021-04-24T13:24:19 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-24T13:24:25 < karlp> is the tooling your using using the right pattern? L031 gets pattern 2, L01 gets pattern 6?
2021-04-24T13:24:47 < Xogium> so can this work multiple times ? Or if it blows the fuse its done for ?
2021-04-24T13:25:13 < Xogium> I have a feeling this could happen again :D
2021-04-24T13:25:15 < karlp> no, repeated.
2021-04-24T13:25:18 < karlp> it's not a fuse.
2021-04-24T13:25:26 < karlp> I mean, it is ... but not a one off.
2021-04-24T13:25:46 < Streaker> you're spoiled by modern fuses :p
2021-04-24T13:25:47 < Xogium> scary, must say… First time it happened, I was alone in the apartment, friend gone out to get food. The thing almost caught fire on the kitchen table
2021-04-24T13:25:56 < Xogium> the *wooden* kitchen table
2021-04-24T13:25:57 < karlp> aandrew: I replied on twitter too, but seeing 0 instead of 0xff is _normal_ for L series part
2021-04-24T13:26:24 < Streaker> Xogium: once it blows you have to buy a new one.
2021-04-24T13:26:29 < Streaker> they don't reset.
2021-04-24T13:26:34 < Xogium> ah
2021-04-24T13:27:29 < Streaker> there are another type of thermal cutout that resets, but those are too big to attach to an mcu afaik.
2021-04-24T13:27:44 < Xogium> well that's still very useful :p better that than having the board almost set on fire
2021-04-24T13:28:06 < Xogium> well, its not a mcu, its a mpu, but yeah
2021-04-24T13:28:10 < Xogium> I get what you mean
2021-04-24T13:28:43 < Xogium> its a, er… I think quadcore 1 ghz cortex a8
2021-04-24T13:28:45 < Xogium> or a9
2021-04-24T13:28:47 < Xogium> I forget
2021-04-24T13:28:52 < PaulFertser> Streaker: so using a regular polyfuse to monitor external temperature?
2021-04-24T13:29:07 < Streaker> PaulFertser: I didn't understand the question.
2021-04-24T13:29:25 < PaulFertser> Streaker: will a regular polyfuse work as a thermal fuse?
2021-04-24T13:29:37 < Streaker> I just had that thought too. I don't know.
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2021-04-24T13:29:52 < Xogium> but I mean
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2021-04-24T13:30:07 < Xogium> even rpi board starting from rpi 2 has a pmic
2021-04-24T13:30:15 < Xogium> so come on, xunlong
2021-04-24T13:30:16 < Xogium> :D
2021-04-24T13:30:54 < Xogium> I even thought of using the st one, stpmic1
2021-04-24T13:31:01 < Streaker> you don't need a pmic for that. you could just have a thermal shutdown in the mpu.
2021-04-24T13:31:05 < Xogium> but it would have required to solder probably, if at all doable
2021-04-24T13:31:15 < Xogium> true
2021-04-24T13:31:27 < PaulFertser> Xogium: what about powering the board from a lab power supply so that you could limit the current at all times?
2021-04-24T13:31:42 < Xogium> but I've sort of been spoiled by the stpmic :D
2021-04-24T13:32:19 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-24T13:32:31 < Streaker> which STM32's have that? I don't think the F103 has any thermal throttle/shutdown does it?
2021-04-24T13:32:35 < Xogium> not sure if that'd help really, I mean it was on a usb 2 port on my laptop
2021-04-24T13:32:59 < Xogium> Streaker: I don't really know the mcu range well, but the stm32mp1 mpu has it
2021-04-24T13:33:02 < Xogium> generally
2021-04-24T13:33:21 < Xogium> its external, but you can get it attached pretty easy afaik
2021-04-24T13:33:47 < Xogium> also the dev kit and eval board from st has it on, so does the SoM and board from seeed studio
2021-04-24T13:34:00 < Xogium> I think pretty much anyone that has a mp1 used the pmic
2021-04-24T13:36:11 -!- circuit is now known as elektrinis
2021-04-24T13:36:46 < karlp> efm32 I'm playing with has die temperature sampled continuiously, available in a register for reading whenever you like, and you can set high/low interrupts for it as well.
2021-04-24T13:36:47 < Xogium> and yeah its rather fun to have a pmic you can reprogram over i2c, I must say
2021-04-24T13:36:48 < karlp> kidna cute.
2021-04-24T13:37:54 < Xogium> for example if you have a power buton routed to it, you can configure the pmic so you don't just plug the psu in to boot up, you have to have sufficient voltage + press the buton
2021-04-24T13:38:24 < Xogium> I hate when sbc boot up as soon as power is plugged in usually
2021-04-24T13:39:05 < Xogium> long press is brutal power off
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2021-04-24T16:20:08 < qyx> fucking mouser
2021-04-24T16:20:18 < qyx> they said an iten has restricted availability
2021-04-24T16:20:49 < qyx> and asked to sign some form saying I cannot use the thing within EU before doing CE and stuff
2021-04-24T16:21:23 < qyx> now they replied they wont send the item whatever I do
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2021-04-24T17:16:21 < karlp> what part?!
2021-04-24T17:17:59 < zyp> fun
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2021-04-24T17:35:56 < qyx> some seedstudio lora module development kit with ardweeno headers
2021-04-24T17:36:22 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/713-113990934
2021-04-24T17:36:41 < qyx> https://www.seeedstudio.com/LoRa-E5-Dev-Kit-p-4868.html
2021-04-24T17:37:11 < qyx> the LoRa-E5 module itself is not restricted
2021-04-24T17:37:41 < qyx> neither stm32wl
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2021-04-24T18:49:22 < jpa-> qyx: heh, i've been wondering who carries the responsibility for importing stuff when ordering with DDP
2021-04-24T18:50:08 < jpa-> i guess mouser has such large presence in europe that they don't feel like selling things that don't fit the local frequency bands
2021-04-24T18:50:37 < qyx> you mean LoRa modules for EU868?
2021-04-24T18:50:53 < jpa-> i mean lora modules that do other than EU868 also
2021-04-24T18:51:47 < jpa-> and / or that are just untested / without declaration of conformity in general
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2021-04-24T20:12:22 < karlp> say I wanted to repack that battery pack: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/m2YdoyL9JSZTngK I'm going to need a spot welder right?  and to pay careful attention to how it's wired up now when I pull it apart carefully?
2021-04-24T20:12:35 < karlp> I'm wondering whether it's even worth bothering.
2021-04-24T20:12:53 < fenugrec> can you get the correct cells
2021-04-24T20:13:22 < karlp> they just look like 18650s
2021-04-24T20:13:23 < fenugrec> if you can only get them without tabs, and you don't have a spotwelder... meh
2021-04-24T20:13:45 < qyx> just solder them
2021-04-24T20:14:24 < karlp> 25.2 V / 8 is 3.15? seems low for 8S?
2021-04-24T20:14:25 < qyx> you just need to clean them, apply flux, be fast
2021-04-24T20:14:46 < qyx> I would say it is 6 cell
2021-04-24T20:15:01 < fenugrec> wet sponge or rag to apply immediately after. Yeah, many do just that and it works
2021-04-24T20:15:03 < qyx> it is the "oh no, we don't sell 10.8 V batteries anymore, they are 12 V now" bullshit
2021-04-24T20:15:03 < karlp> actually, recounting, it's 7.
2021-04-24T20:15:17 < karlp> the pcb takes up too muhc space for where I thought the 8th was.
2021-04-24T20:15:37 < karlp> which is 3.6V, so that'
2021-04-24T20:15:42 < karlp> s more rational
2021-04-24T20:16:02 < qyx> or buy a tabbed variant and solder on tabs
2021-04-24T20:16:06 < karlp> so, gotta buy more cells from nkon then...
2021-04-24T20:16:10  * karlp ponders the time
2021-04-24T20:16:23 < qyx> is it for the vacuum cleaner
2021-04-24T20:16:27 < karlp> yeah
2021-04-24T20:16:31 < karlp> we've already got a new one
2021-04-24T20:18:04 < karlp> exactly therse: http://www.cylxpower.com/pd.jsp?id=1026
2021-04-24T20:18:11 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/UJC-HP-G-SMT-TR?qs=zW32dvEIR3vpliH6CJp5Zw%3D%3D
2021-04-24T20:18:14 < qyx> super pro datasheet
2021-04-24T20:18:23 < qyx> I like it actually
2021-04-24T20:20:00 < qyx> whoa they have 3d models and footprints
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2021-04-24T21:07:09 < zyp> karlp, easiest route is getting cells with prewelded tabs
2021-04-24T21:07:17 < zyp> otherwise having a spot welder is nice
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2021-04-24T22:13:50 < bitmask> anyone feel like laughing or giving advice?
2021-04-24T22:13:50 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/rPedPHq
2021-04-24T22:13:59 < bitmask> not finished yet
2021-04-24T22:36:13 < karlp> nkon has https://ru.nkon.nl/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6-8-25a-met-u-tag.html with tags on them, and they're also cheap, and would nominaly almost double the run time of the vac, so, might as well give it a shot I guess...
2021-04-24T22:36:19 < karlp> good exercise at least...
2021-04-24T22:39:29 < qyx> bitmask: 6n8 cap after the bridge rectifier is probably not enough
2021-04-24T22:40:22 < bitmask> 6n8 is for something specific, i forget what, I havent added the rectifier smoothing caps/ switcher input caps yet
2021-04-24T22:40:45 < bitmask> havent figured out how much to add yet
2021-04-24T22:41:24 < karlp> 24vAC?
2021-04-24T22:41:28 < karlp> where's that coming frrom?
2021-04-24T22:41:40 < karlp> "Activate windows"....
2021-04-24T22:42:29 < bitmask> it always says i need to activate windows when running from a vm
2021-04-24T22:42:39 < karlp> you have 12v dc and 24v ac that sounds fun
2021-04-24T22:42:44 < bitmask> i have a 110 to 24V transformer power brick
2021-04-24T22:42:46 < karlp> just use the ie test images....
2021-04-24T22:43:14 < bitmask> ie test images?
2021-04-24T22:43:42 < karlp> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
2021-04-24T22:44:10 < bitmask> they expire after 90 days?
2021-04-24T22:45:33 < bitmask> i can probably just call microsoft to have them add it
2021-04-24T22:46:08 < bitmask> i have a mac and its using bootcamp to dual boot so its not just using a vm, I just use a vm when im booted into os x
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--- Day changed Sun Apr 25 2021
2021-04-25T00:01:55 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MFne3/Screenshot_2021-04-24_23-01-32.png
2021-04-25T00:02:05 < qyx> anyone tried reversing pair polarity on KSZxxxx?
2021-04-25T00:02:06 < qyx> zyp: ^
2021-04-25T00:10:24 < aandrew> so twitter says that l-series STM32 reads 0x00 for blank. weird. I mean the chip is working fine other than the fact I cannot get the uart rom bootloader to come up
2021-04-25T00:10:29 < aandrew> but it seems to be behaving
2021-04-25T00:15:22 < Steffann> With twitter you mean karlp aandrew ? ;)
2021-04-25T00:15:39 < Steffann> Is it blank aandrew ?
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2021-04-25T00:20:54 < zyp> qyx, yeah, somebody fucked up that on a design I've used, it just worked
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2021-04-25T00:30:34 < karlp> most? all? smsc/mchp usb stuff lets you swap lanes too.
2021-04-25T00:30:40 < aandrew> oh that was karlp?
2021-04-25T00:30:44 < aandrew> yes it was blank
2021-04-25T00:31:17 < aandrew> but even with BOOT0=1 it still doesn't respond to 0x7f
2021-04-25T00:31:33 < karlp> you'r eno using like uart 3 or something right? it only responds on two of them?
2021-04-25T00:31:44 < aandrew> karlp: yeah it only response on UART2 and UART2 is PA9/10
2021-04-25T00:31:59 < aandrew> this is TSSOP20 so not a lot of pin options to start with :-)
2021-04-25T00:32:21 < karlp> you're ttl adapter has worked with other st bootloaders?
2021-04-25T00:32:28 < aandrew> that I haven't tried yet
2021-04-25T00:32:31 < karlp> (ie, it's _actually_ using even parity?)
2021-04-25T00:32:32 < aandrew> but it's regular old FT232
2021-04-25T00:32:37 < karlp> should be ok then..
2021-04-25T00:32:55 < aandrew> another good point on ensuring parity is actually being used
2021-04-25T00:32:55 < karlp> but for instance, ch340x stuff on linux didn't actually do party for a few years, but reported it did...
2021-04-25T00:33:01 < aandrew> I have to hook up the LA
2021-04-25T00:33:09 < aandrew> just being lazy and swd works fine
2021-04-25T00:33:09  * karlp shrugs. sounds sucky. sorry
2021-04-25T00:33:26 < karlp> well, I mean, if you're palnning on production flashing via uart, yeah, needs to be resolved sooner or later :)
2021-04-25T00:33:39 < aandrew> yes, that's the ideal goal but it's not a *requirement* 
2021-04-25T00:33:46 < aandrew> just trying to save money by not adding a programming step
2021-04-25T00:34:01 < ventyl> those nordic semi BT MCUs are... kinda weird
2021-04-25T00:34:35 < aandrew> ventyl: I have a lot of experience with teh 51822 and 52840
2021-04-25T00:36:14 < ventyl> i am just peeking into datasheet
2021-04-25T00:36:32 < ventyl> as the device I'd like to test is not in stock
2021-04-25T00:36:42 < karlp> "no current consumption figures for you! we'll manage power for you! trust us!"
2021-04-25T00:38:11 < ventyl> battery is at 88%, 6:54 remaining
2021-04-25T00:38:14 < ventyl> notbad.
2021-04-25T00:41:48 < qyx> zyp: oh, thanks
2021-04-25T00:42:40 < karlp> feck. nkon won't ship to iceland.
2021-04-25T00:42:54 < karlp> Iguess I've only had nimh shipped from them before here,
2021-04-25T00:44:15 < qyx> ask them to ship on a canoe
2021-04-25T00:45:29 < karlp> well, that makes vacuum repair almost instantly non-viable.
2021-04-25T00:45:39 < karlp> I'm not going to pay icelandic prices for the cells.
2021-04-25T00:46:40 < englishman> can't you get 18650s from china
2021-04-25T00:47:04 < englishman> or get some clone Milwaukee batts from amazon and take them apart
2021-04-25T00:47:39 < karlp> you forgotten where I live again?
2021-04-25T00:47:51 < englishman> there are places with no amazon?!?
2021-04-25T00:48:18 < karlp> amazon here exists, but it's ~irrelevantly expensive, and the vast majority of it will simply say at the last minute, "oh, no, we don't ship there"
2021-04-25T00:48:27 < englishman> nice
2021-04-25T00:48:30 < karlp> you bet :)
2021-04-25T00:48:36 < englishman> so china, then
2021-04-25T00:48:52 < karlp> china mostly doesn't ship lithium here either when I've tried in the past.
2021-04-25T00:49:04 < karlp> it always reminds me of flyign to alaska.
2021-04-25T00:49:23 < karlp> not allwoed to take fuel on the plane, but had to sit beside the cargo in teh back anyway, whichi was fuel cans....
2021-04-25T00:50:27 < karlp> a compatible battery here, will cost me as much for 2 of them as all 7 from nkon...
2021-04-25T00:50:37 < karlp> meh, already replaced the vaccum anyway.
2021-04-25T00:54:42 < ventyl> lithium batteries somehow became yet bigger concern now
2021-04-25T00:57:49 < aandrew> yeah I was kind of lucky with this part
2021-04-25T00:59:32 < qyx> some of us are quite happy to be in the same broadcast domain as nkon
2021-04-25T00:59:49 < aandrew> STM32L031F6Px is pin compatible with L010Fx/011Fx, and F038F6
2021-04-25T01:00:31 < aandrew> I chose that part specifically for that reason, and with a minor board change which I haven't done, also with G031
2021-04-25T01:00:42 < aandrew> actually F038 needs a mod too because they have a separate nPOR pin
2021-04-25T01:01:35 < qyx> which package is that
2021-04-25T01:01:48 < qyx> tssop20?
2021-04-25T01:02:30 < qyx> yeah
2021-04-25T01:06:28 < aandrew> yep tssop20
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2021-04-25T01:29:21 < bitmask> hmm
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2021-04-25T01:29:32 < bitmask> how do you choose a RC LP filter or rf filtering
2021-04-25T01:29:41 < bitmask> i probably dont even need it
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2021-04-25T01:30:08 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/ad8494_8495_8496_8497-1502317.pdf
2021-04-25T01:30:10 < bitmask> page 13
2021-04-25T01:30:12 < Steffanx> Are those devices youre playing with actually empty aandrew ?
2021-04-25T01:31:00 < Steffanx> If not, they're not one of those newer ones with boot0 booting disabled by the option bytes by default?
2021-04-25T01:32:39 < HelloShitty> Hello. What stm chip, cheap, lower power would be suitable to build a very simple and basic fan controller, based on a temperature sensor value?
2021-04-25T01:33:14 < HelloShitty> Goal is to use this MLX90614 to measure temperature and accoring to temperature, I want to control the RPM of a fan with PWM
2021-04-25T01:33:44 < HelloShitty> limitations I have is power supply. This is to be used in a RockPro64 board
2021-04-25T01:34:04 < Steffann> Probably any stm32. Is low power really necessary.
2021-04-25T01:34:24 < HelloShitty> So, I want to supply the power to this thing from the RockPro64
2021-04-25T01:34:32 < Steffann> Sounds like a fan will use more than the stm32 ever will 
2021-04-25T01:34:40 < HelloShitty> It is not mandatory the low power
2021-04-25T01:34:51 < HelloShitty> but the less power it uses the better
2021-04-25T01:38:15 < Steffann> Even the lowest end stm32 will be over powered. Unless your control algorhythm is all over the place
2021-04-25T01:38:55 < Steffann> Algorithm lol
2021-04-25T01:39:19 < Steffann> Or not. Its late 😋
2021-04-25T01:44:19 < ventyl> this job can probably be reasonably done using *any* MCU out there
2021-04-25T01:44:38 < ventyl> accidentally I want to do the same on the same board
2021-04-25T01:47:27 < HelloShitty> ok, but I would like an example of a chip reference
2021-04-25T01:47:46 < HelloShitty> I want to use an stm to learn  a bit about them
2021-04-25T01:48:01 < HelloShitty> I know it is overpowered for the task, but I don't care
2021-04-25T01:48:16 < ventyl> go buy cheapest STM32L0, these are rather well available even in todays chip shortae
2021-04-25T01:48:20 < ventyl> *shortage
2021-04-25T01:48:34 < HelloShitty> ok, thanks
2021-04-25T01:50:39 < ventyl> or mayb don't buy the absolutely cheapest one. pay some $0.10 more and get some well equipped one
2021-04-25T01:50:58 < ventyl> STM32L073 is in nucleo board, it has shitload of RAM for such a controller
2021-04-25T01:58:03 < HelloShitty> I was looking for stm32l010f4
2021-04-25T01:58:07 < HelloShitty> Let me check that one
2021-04-25T01:58:18 < HelloShitty> for 10 cents or 20 cents, I don't care
2021-04-25T01:58:31 < HelloShitty> I'll probably buy 5 or so, in case I mess up one or 2
2021-04-25T01:58:32 < HelloShitty> lol
2021-04-25T01:58:54 < HelloShitty> I'm very bad with taking care of electronic parts
2021-04-25T01:59:14 < HelloShitty> Also, I have a bad relationship with electrostatic discharges, I guess
2021-04-25T01:59:49 < ventyl> nowadays parts aren't as sensitive to ESD as early CMOS stuff used to be
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2021-04-25T02:00:26 < ventyl> books describing handling of CMOS from 90s were very stringent on what you can't and should do with the part
2021-04-25T02:00:38 < ventyl> anyway, GN!
2021-04-25T02:03:42 < HelloShitty> gn
2021-04-25T02:40:54 < _unreal_> so atollic seems to work
2021-04-25T02:42:14 < HelloShitty> But these chips doesn't cost 10 cents
2021-04-25T02:42:21 < Steffann> Atollic is dead 
2021-04-25T02:42:26 < HelloShitty> lol, at digiky they cost like 5€
2021-04-25T02:42:33 < t4nk_freenode> they said 10cts extra 
2021-04-25T02:42:47 < HelloShitty> ahh ok
2021-04-25T02:42:49 < HelloShitty> my bad
2021-04-25T02:44:54 < t4nk_freenode> like the nick btw ;) any relations to Shitty Wok btw?
2021-04-25T02:45:50 < kakium69> it's like hellokitty
2021-04-25T02:46:14 < t4nk_freenode> I had a vague sense it was ;)
2021-04-25T02:46:32 < t4nk_freenode> though I personally never played with kitty
2021-04-25T02:48:42 < HelloShitty> t4nk_freenode: no
2021-04-25T02:48:52 < HelloShitty> it was just a joke related to the doll
2021-04-25T02:49:19 < t4nk_freenode> 'City Wok' is from south park
2021-04-25T02:50:59 < HelloShitty> I know the tv show but I don't usually watch it
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2021-04-25T07:49:30 < bitmask> if you have like a VU meter type setup with a series of resistors (in this case 6 for 5 voltage values) each 'rung' going into an op amp, how much current needs to be flowing for it to be stable?
2021-04-25T07:56:42 < Streaker> 10x the op amp's bias current?
2021-04-25T07:57:40 < bitmask> lets see what that is
2021-04-25T07:58:57 < bitmask> oh wow
2021-04-25T07:58:57 < bitmask> ok
2021-04-25T07:59:09 < bitmask> its 700 nA, so 1mA is more than enough :P
2021-04-25T08:24:47 < bitmask> hmm, i forgot you arent supposed to use op amps as comparators, guess i gotta look for another part
2021-04-25T08:51:16 < Streaker> why not?
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2021-04-25T08:52:22 < bitmask> not sure, never really used an op amp before but it seems like one of those lessons most say to avoid. i think because they are designed to be run in the linear region and comparators run at full saturation and can cause problems
2021-04-25T08:53:40 < jly> what would you op-amp for
2021-04-25T08:57:12 < bitmask> i need a simple voltage level indicator
2021-04-25T08:58:17 < jly> is this part of an existing project with a MCU already
2021-04-25T08:59:23 < bitmask> no, if it was that would be easy :) i dont need an mcu for this project
2021-04-25T08:59:33 < jly> we all need MCU
2021-04-25T08:59:40 < bitmask> it would be a waste
2021-04-25T08:59:45 < jly> ty
2021-04-25T09:32:44 < jadew> what's a good large file editor?
2021-04-25T09:35:02 < jadew> looks like vim works
2021-04-25T09:35:13 < jadew> but it loads it all in memory
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2021-04-25T09:44:09 < antto> geany?
2021-04-25T09:44:24 < antto> jadew, wut kind of file?
2021-04-25T09:44:37 < jadew> text file
2021-04-25T09:50:19 < jadew> we need faster storage devices
2021-04-25T09:50:41 < antto> FRAM
2021-04-25T09:52:32 < jadew> Like DRAM, FeRAM's read process is destructive, necessitating a write-after-read architecture.
2021-04-25T09:52:40 < jadew> sounds like a problem
2021-04-25T09:53:03 < jadew> power outage during a read operation - data is bye bye
2021-04-25T09:53:04 < antto> wut
2021-04-25T09:53:21 < antto> [citation needed]
2021-04-25T09:53:26 < jadew> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric_RAM
2021-04-25T09:55:22 < antto> well don't turn off the power then
2021-04-25T09:56:37 < jadew> I'm really upset about not getting 128 GB RAM
2021-04-25T09:56:52 < jadew> I could have made a RAM disk now and did all this stuff in there
2021-04-25T09:57:01 < antto> bruh i got 8GB RAM on my best comput0r
2021-04-25T09:57:24 < antto> wut'cha doing?
2021-04-25T09:57:37 < jadew> I'm editing a 21 GB file
2021-04-25T09:58:20 < antto> o_O
2021-04-25T09:58:57 < antto> ur file is... fat
2021-04-25T09:59:10 < jadew> yeah, it's a DB dump
2021-04-25T09:59:32 < jadew> hopefully it imports this time
2021-04-25T10:17:57 < zyp> I wanted 64 for my new work computer, but the vendor ram upgrades seemed pointlessly expensive
2021-04-25T10:18:07 < zyp> so I bought it with 16 and added 64, so it got 80 now
2021-04-25T10:20:30 < ventyl> 20 times more than my best
2021-04-25T10:25:06 < jadew> zyp, my motherboard only supports 64, so if I want to upgrade I have to change the mobo too
2021-04-25T10:25:21 < zyp> home workstation still only got 24 after one of the 8GB sticks died, and I keep running out
2021-04-25T10:30:15 < jadew> I haven't ran out yet, but this time I could have really used some extra RAM
2021-04-25T10:34:11 < bitmask> both mine have 16, might be worth looking into upgrading
2021-04-25T10:34:27 < jly> 64!!!!
2021-04-25T10:34:34 < jly> I don't even have 32!!!!
2021-04-25T10:36:53 < bitmask> if you are using an ic with dual opamp but only using one and supplying it with +-12V what should you tie the unused inputs to?
2021-04-25T10:37:06 < bitmask> just gnd em?
2021-04-25T10:37:10 < jadew> no
2021-04-25T10:37:18 < jadew> one up, one down
2021-04-25T10:37:33 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-04-25T10:37:52 < bitmask> hmm mouser still isnt up yet
2021-04-25T10:38:43 < jly> https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sboa204a/sboa204a.pdf bitmask 
2021-04-25T10:40:41 < bitmask> not loading?
2021-04-25T10:41:16 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/pTrI2eC2/sboa204a.pdf
2021-04-25T10:41:29 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/pTrI2eC2/sboa204a.pdf
2021-04-25T10:41:32 < jly> how bout that
2021-04-25T10:42:04 < bitmask> there we go
2021-04-25T10:42:05 < bitmask> thx
2021-04-25T10:42:11 < jly> no worries
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2021-04-25T10:47:59 < jadew> they are correct, but they're making some assumptions there
2021-04-25T10:50:00 < jly> the one i see
2021-04-25T10:50:05 < jly> is the amp unity gain stable
2021-04-25T10:50:20 < jadew> one of which is that in saturation the particular opamp you're using will consume more than it will while push-pulling to keep it set (in the first example)
2021-04-25T10:50:50 < jadew> then also the assumption that your opamp can't take the voltage difference from one rail to the other - which in most cases it's not true
2021-04-25T10:51:11 < jly> jolly good
2021-04-25T10:52:45 < jadew> I wonder how much noise an opamp in equilibrium generates
2021-04-25T10:53:09 < jadew> it must be going back and forth in order to stay stable
2021-04-25T10:55:37 < jadew> you're right about the unity gain stability too, missed that :)
2021-04-25T10:55:46 < jly> most are 
2021-04-25T10:55:58 < jadew> I've used some that weren't
2021-04-25T10:56:30 < jly> the common audio 'power op amps' generally aren't iirc
2021-04-25T10:57:33 < jadew> I tried to use a 300 MHz opamp when I was a noob, couldn't get that thing to behave at all
2021-04-25T10:57:38 < jly> wonder about the holy LM4562
2021-04-25T10:58:10 < jly> I love how using it doesn't make a difference 
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2021-04-25T11:00:42 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/xrMAjGdA/4562gainphase.png
2021-04-25T11:03:13 < jadew> still has gain at 10 GHz?
2021-04-25T11:03:41 < jadew> that's surprising
2021-04-25T11:04:01 < jadew> oh, that's 10 MHz
2021-04-25T11:09:44 < bitmask> i guess most comparators are single supply huh... guess I should add an offset to my signal
2021-04-25T11:10:22 < bitmask> oh nvm, its listed as single supply but supports dual
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2021-04-25T14:14:12 < BrainDamage> for the internal structure, as long as it's not open drain it always supports dual
2021-04-25T14:15:29 < BrainDamage> opamps vs comparators differ that opamps are internally compensated, comparators not
2021-04-25T14:15:31 < BrainDamage> so they are fastah
2021-04-25T14:15:33 < BrainDamage> but unstable in a closed negative feedback
2021-04-25T14:15:56 < BrainDamage> as you can see yourself the phase margin is pretty narrow
2021-04-25T14:16:38 < BrainDamage> altough it's weird, the kink in the response would make me think it's internally compensated
2021-04-25T14:16:58 < BrainDamage> because the compensation generates a pole-zero pair
2021-04-25T14:22:14 < BrainDamage> unrelated: https://i.imgur.com/CDCI23t.mp4
2021-04-25T14:30:57 < Streaker> he has balls. drawing a scriber across the pcb like that. I'm surprised he didn't cut anything.
2021-04-25T14:32:25 < jadew> I don't think it's a straight cutter
2021-04-25T14:32:35 < jadew> I think the tip is bent in a 90 degrees angle
2021-04-25T14:32:45 < jadew> he's cutting under the IC I think
2021-04-25T14:32:55 < jadew> but yeah, nice skills 
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2021-04-25T17:06:13 < englishman> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56847518
2021-04-25T17:11:55 < Xogium> huh huh, really ?
2021-04-25T17:12:19 < Xogium> I'd take that with a big grain of salt
2021-04-25T17:12:29 < Xogium> but not sure lol
2021-04-25T17:22:51 < fenugrec> it's the toilet paper scenario again
2021-04-25T17:23:12 < Xogium> lol yeah
2021-04-25T17:24:40 < effractur> englishman: so i think cisco is talking about the sortage on the chips that they need
2021-04-25T17:24:45 < effractur> so mostly the more high end stuff
2021-04-25T17:24:51 < Xogium> yep most likely
2021-04-25T17:25:03 < effractur> and indeed for that the expectation is later this year to get better
2021-04-25T17:25:10 < englishman> hey Xogium can you "read" ascii art
2021-04-25T17:26:01 < Xogium> englishman: not really… Well I can read it but it doesn't make any drawing representation in my mind. only line after line of symbols or letters
2021-04-25T17:26:38 < englishman> is there another way for you to appreciate art?
2021-04-25T17:26:39 < Xogium> and its even more fun with tts
2021-04-25T17:26:50 < Xogium> hmm. I don't know
2021-04-25T17:27:06 < jadew> englishman, maybe if you sing about the contents
2021-04-25T17:27:10 < Xogium> depend what kind of art I suppose
2021-04-25T17:27:12 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-25T17:27:24 < englishman> If you were able to read ascii art it would be cool to see what you could draw
2021-04-25T17:27:56 < jadew> I guess if he had a graphical display, lots of things would open up
2021-04-25T17:28:40 < jadew> there has to be a cheap way of making something good for this purpose
2021-04-25T17:30:20 < jadew> the biggest problem has to be that you need a rather big magnetic field in order to move something
2021-04-25T17:30:29 < jadew> so perhaps magnetism is not the solution here
2021-04-25T17:32:03 < jadew> maybe you could create a display with high enough voltage that it tingles
2021-04-25T17:32:19 < jadew> just enough to create a tactile sensation
2021-04-25T17:32:34 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-25T17:32:51 < englishman> he could lie on a bed of nails where each nail is connected to 240VAC
2021-04-25T17:32:54 < jadew> then you could have very good resolution
2021-04-25T17:32:55 < Xogium> but have to be careful, so that you don't collect static electricity right ?
2021-04-25T17:33:23 < jadew> Xogium, you make it ESD safe
2021-04-25T17:33:34 < jadew> and you could even have gradients
2021-04-25T17:36:18 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-25T17:36:58 < Xogium> I don't know if I could detect that
2021-04-25T17:37:35 < jadew> well, if it goes from barely tingly to it hurts, I'm sure you would
2021-04-25T17:37:44 < Xogium> yeah :p
2021-04-25T17:38:03 < jadew> I wonder how much resolution we have in our fingers for that kind of stuff tho
2021-04-25T17:38:13 < jadew> it's definitely worth some experimentation
2021-04-25T17:38:19 < Xogium> hmmm it depends
2021-04-25T17:38:55 < jadew> I'll see if I can come up with something and add a test board in my next batch
2021-04-25T17:38:55 < Xogium> I guess less than the eyes though, but blind people were able to detect breast tumors that are about 3 mm in size
2021-04-25T17:39:02 < Xogium> sighted folks couldn't see them yet
2021-04-25T17:39:30 < fenugrec> high sensitivity, but low "multi-touch" capability... you can feel a hair between your fingers, but if you're pinching 10 hairs, no way you can count how many just by feeling
2021-04-25T17:39:39 < Xogium> yea
2021-04-25T17:41:06  * Streaker puts on dark glasses and sets out a board: "free breast examinations".
2021-04-25T17:41:14 < Xogium> rofl
2021-04-25T17:41:42 < fenugrec> I find tactile feedback is very underused, and touchpads are garbage. This article was a fun read on the subject http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ . "modern interfaces are less expressive than a sandwich"
2021-04-25T17:42:01 < Xogium> I can't agree more
2021-04-25T17:42:39 < jadew> afk
2021-04-25T17:42:52 < Xogium> if I could I'd just go like fsck touchscreen phones and I'd go with one that has real keys
2021-04-25T17:44:20 < Xogium> but the screen reader on these is either missing or so underdeveloped that I'm stuck with stupid smartphones
2021-04-25T17:44:43 < BrainDamage> jadew: the discrimination distance is part of standard neurological tests
2021-04-25T17:45:18 < BrainDamage> you just take a pair of tweezers and open at different diameters, and ask the test subject whenever they feel it's a single or dual thing
2021-04-25T17:46:08 < BrainDamage> for most persons it's 5mm or so
2021-04-25T17:46:23 < Xogium> wow that big ?
2021-04-25T17:47:22 < Xogium> I'd have to do that one just for fun
2021-04-25T17:48:17 < BrainDamage> the skin tension gets in the way
2021-04-25T17:48:43 < BrainDamage> unless you press hard, you cannot say if it's a large flat thing or two separate points
2021-04-25T17:48:58 < Xogium> right
2021-04-25T17:49:27 < Steffann> "seeing" a few pixels with the tongue has been around for a while right? No progress in that?
2021-04-25T17:51:01 < BrainDamage> once I had a stupid idea to wire a belt with some vibration motors and ultrasonic distance meters
2021-04-25T17:51:20 < Steffann> im pretty sure that exists
2021-04-25T17:51:22 < BrainDamage> and then just make the intensity inversely proportional to distancee
2021-04-25T17:51:43 < Steffann> i recall seeing that
2021-04-25T17:57:56 < Steffann> Was it really a stupid idea BrainDamage?
2021-04-25T17:59:52 < BrainDamage> until it's known to work, yes
2021-04-25T18:00:29 < Steffann> ok, better get matlab/octave running that
2021-04-25T18:00:44 < Steffann> *then
2021-04-25T18:01:04 < BrainDamage> heh, I have a different approach than labrenceb
2021-04-25T18:01:19 < BrainDamage> if it's expensive or takes long, then I sim
2021-04-25T18:01:42 < BrainDamage> otherwise I just try to cobble up something with the pile of junk I have around
2021-04-25T18:02:00 < BrainDamage> here simulating it would be way more difficult than just doing it
2021-04-25T18:06:48 < Steffann> :)
2021-04-25T18:16:23 < jadew> back
2021-04-25T18:16:50 < jadew> there's a bigger question here tho, is there any chance of nerve damage from the sustained current passing through the skin?
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2021-04-25T18:20:18 < Xogium> jadew: good point, it could be ? Not sure
2021-04-25T18:21:24 < Xogium> I mean usually high current isn't very good for the body, right ? So I'd think it could be bad
2021-04-25T18:21:41 < jadew> yeah, but we're talking very small currents
2021-04-25T18:21:53 < jadew> maybe lower than 1 mA
2021-04-25T18:22:10 < jadew> IIRC, 1 mA you feel it, 10 mA it hurts, 100 mA you die
2021-04-25T18:22:21 < Xogium> really, wow
2021-04-25T18:22:37 < Xogium> that's all it takes to kill with current ? Dang
2021-04-25T18:23:06 < jadew> can take less, depending on how unlucky you are
2021-04-25T18:24:06 < jadew> https://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html
2021-04-25T18:24:22 < jadew> that's a famous story of a guy measuring his internal resistance :D
2021-04-25T18:24:40 < benishor> yeah
2021-04-25T18:24:47 < benishor> I ended up there from the inventables newsletter
2021-04-25T18:25:21 < benishor> where one guy described an ecg machine?
2021-04-25T18:25:51 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-25T18:26:21 < benishor> https://www.instructables.com/ECG-Display-With-Arduino/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
2021-04-25T18:27:18 < jadew> imagine building that and being all happy about it, then when you connect it to yourself you discover you have a problem
2021-04-25T18:27:23 < benishor> definitely something I'd like to play with but after reading the whole article and comments, I decided I would keep out
2021-04-25T18:28:04 < jadew> you're afraid of putting electrodes across your heart?
2021-04-25T18:28:06 < BrainDamage> when I built my own ecg I used an isolation amplifier and used a sep batt supply
2021-04-25T18:28:06 < benishor> I actually learned how to interpret ECGs while my wife was in medicine school just so I can explain it to her
2021-04-25T18:28:12 < BrainDamage> along 10M resistors
2021-04-25T18:29:10 < benishor> BrainDamage: have you used it on yourself?
2021-04-25T18:30:57 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-04-25T18:31:51 < jadew> "I am facing a compiling error in the Arduino IDE."
2021-04-25T18:31:56 < BrainDamage> I wouldn't hook up a naive circuit, but I took 3 levels of precautions in mine
2021-04-25T18:32:08 < benishor> grate :D
2021-04-25T18:32:14 < jadew> now that's a funny situation "my ECG isn't compiling..."
2021-04-25T18:32:16 < benishor> you're still alive to tell the story
2021-04-25T18:32:17 < BrainDamage> almost on par with commercial ones
2021-04-25T18:32:38 < benishor> what's interesting in that article is the whole standard discussion
2021-04-25T18:33:54 < jadew> BrainDamage, wasn't that like a product you were working on?
2021-04-25T18:34:29 < BrainDamage> i made a product because of my toy project
2021-04-25T18:34:29 < jadew> or it was related to a product - not sure
2021-04-25T18:34:38 < jadew> ah, I see
2021-04-25T18:35:04 < BrainDamage> I was talking aboout it with my friends at a bar
2021-04-25T18:35:05 < BrainDamage> so the project came first
2021-04-25T18:37:45 < Laurenceb> level fucking 2 door supervisor
2021-04-25T18:37:49 < Laurenceb> dont fuck with me bro
2021-04-25T18:37:57 < Laurenceb> level 2
2021-04-25T18:38:17 < benishor> what does that mean for noobs?
2021-04-25T18:38:18 < Laurenceb> cant touch this
2021-04-25T18:38:30 < Laurenceb> le epin 4chan meme 
2021-04-25T18:38:50 < Laurenceb> started by some deano on twitter saying that unironically
2021-04-25T18:39:00 < jadew> is that something related to masturbation?
2021-04-25T18:39:13 < Laurenceb> I think they couldnt afford automatic doors
2021-04-25T18:40:42 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/Pruehpq.png
2021-04-25T18:40:43 < BrainDamage> amazons suggestions, I was searching for a heat exchanger
2021-04-25T18:41:41 < jadew> you want to distill something?
2021-04-25T18:42:16 < BrainDamage> not me, my sister's husband wants to extract some oils
2021-04-25T18:42:26 < BrainDamage> but he has 0 technical skills
2021-04-25T18:42:39 < BrainDamage> so I was searching something cheap
2021-04-25T18:42:47 < jadew> ah, I now noticed the recommendation you were talking about hehe
2021-04-25T18:42:58 < jadew> it's made of glass so pretty close
2021-04-25T18:56:15  * Xogium wants to die
2021-04-25T18:56:18 < Xogium> https://www.speedtest.net/result/11320304322
2021-04-25T18:57:50 < jadew> you got fiber?
2021-04-25T18:58:16 < Xogium> jadew: I wish :'( this is vdsl
2021-04-25T18:58:45 < jadew> yeah, I was joking
2021-04-25T18:59:24 < jadew> you should move to Romania
2021-04-25T18:59:34 < jadew> I'm paying $10 for this: https://www.speedtest.net/result/11320324274
2021-04-25T18:59:57 < englishman> saperlipopette that's slow
2021-04-25T19:00:12 < Xogium> englishman: you mean its sloooooow
2021-04-25T19:01:28 < Xogium> what a mess…
2021-04-25T19:01:51 < Xogium> ping I don't mind so much, but god the speed
2021-04-25T19:02:22 < jadew> why don't you change providers?
2021-04-25T19:03:17 < BrainDamage> provider matters only if the clog is after the dslam side
2021-04-25T19:03:34 < BrainDamage> but normally it's the dslam or the twisted pair that's shit
2021-04-25T19:04:07 < Xogium> jadew: I could but they are all vdsl around here
2021-04-25T19:30:13 < fenugrec> jadew, I'm paying 3x for ... 100x slower
2021-04-25T19:31:23 < fenugrec> * 200x slower
2021-04-25T19:33:20 < fenugrec> 5D, 1U "starting at 40$/month"
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2021-04-25T20:02:18 < qyx> so F7x3 has internal USB HS PHY
2021-04-25T20:02:24 < qyx> H7x3 doesn't
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2021-04-25T20:08:17 < Laurenceb> noice
2021-04-25T20:08:22 < Laurenceb> lunix mint ran out of ram
2021-04-25T20:08:36 < Laurenceb> maybe I should install that faceberg tool
2021-04-25T20:10:13 < ventyl> > youtube video: 40 years old car restoration
2021-04-25T20:10:21 < Laurenceb> I wonder if there is any way to recover it
2021-04-25T20:10:31 < Laurenceb> otherwise I've lost my work reee
2021-04-25T20:10:51 < Laurenceb> guess I'll leave it running for a day or so
2021-04-25T20:10:53 < ventyl> > reality: thai guy fixes dead rusty daewoo nexia using paper tape and plaster, finalizes it by the worst paintjob in the history of youtube videos
2021-04-25T20:12:02 < englishman> fenugrec: fizz gives you 15/10 for that price
2021-04-25T20:12:18 < ventyl> Laurenceb: in the future, try zram out
2021-04-25T20:12:39 < ventyl> now you can wait, but I don't expect thing will go well if there is no OOM killer
2021-04-25T20:14:11 < fenugrec> englishman, oh yea those clowns, haven<t checked their deals. I'm actually at 30/m, "grandfathered" since 2013... how is it prices have not changed one bit in 7+ years
2021-04-25T20:14:34 < englishman> no competition in 60+ years
2021-04-25T20:15:29 < englishman> if you switch to fizz be sure to use my referral code, we'll each get $25.
2021-04-25T20:15:30 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-04-25T20:15:35 < Laurenceb> >In July 2017 Cringely posted on his blog that he was suddenly blind from cataracts, but that he would have his sight restored in ten days so maybe everyone could stop asking about the Mineserver boards until then.
2021-04-25T20:15:47 < Laurenceb> https://science.slashdot.org/story/21/04/24/0227246/is-spacexs-starlink-becoming-the-worlds-dominant-isp
2021-04-25T20:16:07 < Laurenceb> > in October 2017 Cringely claimed that his house burned down and all the Mineserver boards were destroyed
2021-04-25T20:29:19 < Laurenceb> hmm no luck so far
2021-04-25T20:29:23 < Laurenceb> putty is dead
2021-04-25T20:31:25 < aandrew> huh. karlp I think there is an issue with parity with this dongle
2021-04-25T20:32:39 < aandrew> I just set up a stupid simple 0x20 - 0x7e emitter on the stm32l0 and it works fine at 115200N81, but E81 only about 2/5 or 3/5 characters is seen properly by minicom
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2021-04-25T20:35:35 < Laurenceb> lunix mint was a mistake
2021-04-25T20:35:44 < Laurenceb> looks like I'll have to kill the psu
2021-04-25T20:35:44 < aandrew> same at 9600 baud, 1 or 2 stop bits. I'll have to try a different dongle
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2021-04-25T20:39:34 < Laurenceb> hmm it just dropped off network
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2021-04-25T20:52:06 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-04-25T20:52:11 < Laurenceb> now its in reboot loop
2021-04-25T20:52:23 < Laurenceb> I should probably take it out of its misery and take it to the trash
2021-04-25T20:52:37 < Laurenceb> linux mint, not even once
2021-04-25T21:03:36 < Steffann> If I got a dollar for every time you ranted about mint, I would be dollar millionair mr Laurenceb 
2021-04-25T21:10:28 < ventyl> Steffann: take `mint` condition out and you'd became dollar billionaire
2021-04-25T21:22:13 < fenugrec> englishman, do you have one of these in your office ? https://mwelab.net/
2021-04-25T21:22:55 < englishman> wtf
2021-04-25T21:23:12 < fenugrec> tactical highspeed office chair
2021-04-25T21:27:48 < Steffann> 6k isnt so bad
2021-04-25T21:33:02 < BrainDamage> speaking of tacticool stuff, I got myself a sous vide cooker
2021-04-25T21:33:37 < BrainDamage> https://imgur.com/a/1dz7Zpu
2021-04-25T21:33:44 < BrainDamage> so much worth
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2021-04-25T21:48:29 < Steffann> Hmm. Looks good
2021-04-25T22:03:50 < englishman> nice
2021-04-25T22:04:19 < englishman> we prepare and freeze a ton of sous vides around harvest time and go through them all year
2021-04-25T22:04:24 < englishman> super e z and delicious
2021-04-25T22:10:19 < qyx> wat, is it even edible after such long time
2021-04-25T22:48:45 < fenugrec> frozen ? why not
2021-04-25T22:52:29 < englishman> sure, sous vide especially as the bag won't leak like a ziploc
2021-04-25T23:24:20 < qyx> so it is basically pasteurisation?
2021-04-25T23:25:33 < qyx> (I've only read the wiki so far)
2021-04-25T23:28:42 < ventyl> polar explorer fingers!!!1
2021-04-25T23:28:47 < ventyl> or how it is called
2021-04-25T23:33:09 < englishman> qyx: no, sous vide is at a much lower temperature
2021-04-25T23:33:52 < englishman> actually i guess it depends.
2021-04-25T23:34:06 < englishman> the goal is to cook the meat at a low and safe temperature
2021-04-25T23:34:10 < englishman> in its own juices
2021-04-25T23:49:42 < BrainDamage> yeah, you want the lowest temp for which it can still kill bacterias
2021-04-25T23:50:12 < BrainDamage> there's a inverse exponential vs temperature and sterilization time
2021-04-25T23:50:35 < BrainDamage> if say at 80 deg ms kill everything, it can take hhours at around 50
2021-04-25T23:51:00 < BrainDamage> and it basically never and instead just breed below 45
2021-04-25T23:52:46 < zyp> so you cook it first and then freeze it?
2021-04-25T23:54:48 < zyp> I thought you normally freeze it raw, then throw it right in the pot when you want to eat
2021-04-25T23:55:37 < BrainDamage> with sous vide you have to seal it anyway in a vacuum pouch
2021-04-25T23:56:03 < BrainDamage> and once it's sealed, if you cook it, it remains sterilized as long as the pouch is unopened
2021-04-25T23:56:35 < BrainDamage> the same tecnique is used for canning, etc etc
2021-04-25T23:56:55 < BrainDamage> yyou seal and heat it after sealing, so you're sur stuff inside is dead
2021-04-25T23:58:37 < BrainDamage> technically commercial stuff can't rely on sealing alone and need a mandatory 2nd mechanism
2021-04-25T23:58:39 < BrainDamage> eg min acidity, etc
2021-04-25T23:59:17 < BrainDamage> hence why you often read stuff on label such as acid correction additives
--- Day changed Mon Apr 26 2021
2021-04-26T00:02:59 < BrainDamage> freezing stuff after cooking has the problem tthat food has to sit for a while in the 20-45 region, where's bacteria breeding ground
2021-04-26T00:03:11 < BrainDamage> so unless you flash freeze your food, you have bacterias multiply, worse, not only freeezing doesn't kill most bacterias, while they replicated they also produced toxins
2021-04-26T00:03:15 < BrainDamage> and even if you kill the bacterias the toxins denaturate at high temp
2021-04-26T00:04:22 < BrainDamage> so you'd need to heat again the food at high temp after defrosting
2021-04-26T00:15:26 < englishman> yes zyp they are raw when frozen
2021-04-26T00:16:38 < englishman> then just take it out, dump it in the pot with the sous vide stick and a couple hours later, delicious main course
2021-04-26T00:17:06 < englishman> there are also reusable sous vide bags to reduce plastic waste
2021-04-26T00:21:36 < BrainDamage> that sounds a bit dangerous for cross contamination
2021-04-26T00:28:16 < englishman> I put em in the dishwasher
2021-04-26T01:06:24 < karlp> aandrew: please do let me know how another dongle goes, I'm hooked on this story now :)
2021-04-26T01:21:35 < karlp> meh, keysight spam encouraging me to trade in my "under used equipment"
2021-04-26T01:21:43 < karlp> like we have any fuckign keysight gear anyway....
2021-04-26T01:36:20 < aandrew> karlp: haha
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2021-04-26T02:28:20 < fenugrec> why would someone pick an F105 for anything today
2021-04-26T02:28:46 < aandrew> I'm using an L031, that's a pretty tiny chip
2021-04-26T02:30:25 < aandrew> what's wrong iwth an F105? it's a long-term chip with decent specs
2021-04-26T02:30:35 < fenugrec> yes, I almost picked an F03* TSSOP20 specifically for the small size, but the F105 is a regular 64/100-pin
2021-04-26T02:31:18 < fenugrec> it's same vintage as F103, expensive, not as available (although hard to judge these days)
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2021-04-26T03:20:10 < karlp> and with a different usb core...
2021-04-26T03:20:27 < karlp> only reason for choosing it _then_ was usb otg...
2021-04-26T03:20:33 < karlp> f102/103 were fine for device...
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2021-04-26T03:29:57 < fenugrec> right
2021-04-26T03:30:21 < fenugrec> as I recall it was the only one of that line to have non-shared RAM between usb and can, allowing both at the same time
2021-04-26T03:51:45 < fenugrec> toughbooks probably
2021-04-26T03:57:19 < specing> R2COM: thinkpad tablet?
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2021-04-26T04:27:28 < aandrew> R2COM: I have ipadpro, terminus and jump desktop get me damn near anywhere I need to be
2021-04-26T04:27:42 < aandrew> pen is okay but bt keyboard is better for most things IMO
2021-04-26T04:27:56 < aandrew> and at that point unless you need ios a decent laptop gets you there cheaper
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2021-04-26T05:28:20 < aandrew> oh I see
2021-04-26T05:28:36 < aandrew> you are really after the tablet + pen feature
2021-04-26T05:28:59 < aandrew> for me I was mostly after high res display and fairly powerful GPU 
2021-04-26T05:37:19 < aandrew> R2COM: gpu in ipadpro is pretty decent
2021-04-26T05:37:36 < aandrew> I don't need it for mining, I need it for manipulating graphics without lagging
2021-04-26T05:49:59 < aandrew> yep
2021-04-26T05:50:01 < aandrew> it works great
2021-04-26T05:50:16 < aandrew> jump desktop is by far the best rdp/vnc client I've run across for ios or osx
2021-04-26T05:50:29 < aandrew> it also does ssh gatewaying which is awesome
2021-04-26T06:30:06 < aandrew> R2COM: it's fast, ssh gatewaying, good virtual/bt kb and mouse support, and like I said, same thing on osx is good
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2021-04-26T07:51:41 < upgrdman> whats a good tool for mirroring hard drives in win10? i used to use synctoy but it seems to be broken and abandonded now :(
2021-04-26T07:55:58 < effractur>  what kind of mirroring?
2021-04-26T07:56:05 < effractur> block level/file level etc?
2021-04-26T08:13:53 < upgrdman> file level
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2021-04-26T12:22:05 < karlp> 5v safe low voltage.... (but we might just burn your eyes out anyway...) https://www.banggood.com/Sleep-Mask-Temperature-Control-Heat-Steam-Eye-Patch-Night-Mask-Sleeping-Band-Cover-Relax-Hot-Compress-Electrical-USB-Blindfold-p-1838922.html
2021-04-26T13:02:41 < zyp> «fever film»
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2021-04-26T15:15:31 < Laurenceb> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/YSX0MxGsEh.jpeg
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2021-04-26T16:17:59 < jpa-> Laurenceb: how many impulses have you exerted control over today?
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2021-04-26T16:28:44 < mawk> lol jpa- 
2021-04-26T16:30:27 < mawk> Laurenceb: https://boards.4chan.org/r9k/thread/63347068
2021-04-26T16:30:50 < Laurenceb> >robot nien thousand
2021-04-26T16:31:28 < mawk> the religion of peace made someone dismember his own daughter
2021-04-26T16:31:35 < mawk> with his friends
2021-04-26T16:34:03 < Laurenceb> >arranged marriage
2021-04-26T16:34:06 < Laurenceb> wait hol up
2021-04-26T16:35:23 < jpa-> the religion of 4chan made mawk think religion is some kind of reason or excuse for abuse and crime
2021-04-26T16:35:33 < mawk> it isn't?
2021-04-26T16:35:35 < mawk> first news
2021-04-26T16:36:07 < mawk> young terrorists going to "battle the infidels" in syria aren't too keen on the religion really
2021-04-26T16:36:12 < mawk> they want to pew pew with their guns
2021-04-26T16:36:17 < mawk> they couldn't cite you a single hadith
2021-04-26T16:37:12 < jpa-> yeah, and everyone saying "religion made them do it" is just distracting from the fact that they chose to commit whatever crimes they did
2021-04-26T16:37:22 < mawk> and also you have a long list of verses justifying almost anything you want to do in the holy books, pick the one you want: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
2021-04-26T16:37:32 < mawk> yeah they chose to do it
2021-04-26T16:37:37 < mawk> and people think religion shields them from it
2021-04-26T16:37:51 < mawk> so the logical conclusion is to destroy religion to remove their shield
2021-04-26T16:38:22 < jpa-> around here religion doesn't have much weight in court system
2021-04-26T16:38:35 < jpa-> however, if you are drunk you get a smaller sentence
2021-04-26T16:38:42 < mawk> why
2021-04-26T16:38:45 < jpa-> no idea
2021-04-26T16:38:47 < mawk> in france you get a heavier sentence if you're drunk
2021-04-26T16:39:01 < jpa-> maybe we should destroy all alcohol, because of course there aren't other ways to fix that problem
2021-04-26T16:39:11 < mawk> well yes alcohol must disappear
2021-04-26T16:39:17 < mawk> I can't disagree with that
2021-04-26T16:39:20 < zyp> better drink it all up
2021-04-26T16:39:24 < mawk> :(
2021-04-26T16:39:52 < mawk> alcohol is a solvent and no-one should drink it, I could say nothing above 3% alcohol contents but people get drunk even on that
2021-04-26T16:40:09 < jpa-> water is a solvent also
2021-04-26T16:40:16 < mawk> yes but it's not just that
2021-04-26T16:40:19 < mawk> you can use it to cook pasta
2021-04-26T16:40:33 < mawk> alcohol is toxic and should only be used as a solvent or industrial reagant and nothing else
2021-04-26T16:40:40 < mawk> or to remove paint or soemthing
2021-04-26T16:40:45 < mawk> not to soak your organs
2021-04-26T16:41:49  * jpa- donates his body to anatomy research, just to get his organs soaked in glass jars full of alcohol
2021-04-26T16:41:56 < mawk> lol
2021-04-26T16:47:15 < mawk> there was a high profile trial last days in france in which a proponent of universal peace killed a jew lady by throwing her off her balcony
2021-04-26T16:47:26 < mawk> and he got the excuse of "I was high" to get a lighter[*] sentence
2021-04-26T16:47:46 < mawk> sentence is lighter in the eye of people, but actually he will be sent to the looney home instead of prison
2021-04-26T16:48:04 < mawk> at least you come out of prison after you served your time, but you never come out of the looney home until your doctor and judge decided it, so it might be never
2021-04-26T16:48:20 < mawk> but it sounds like his name was cleared by justice to the victims so they don't like it
2021-04-26T16:56:53 < ventyl> we've had one guy here, who thought that consumer lifestyle is wrong, so he het up nailbomb in trashcan in front of McD
2021-04-26T16:57:43 < ventyl> he was found guilty in first terorism case here and I think he ended up in looney home too
2021-04-26T16:58:15 < BrainDamage> yeah, insanity defence doesn't work irl
2021-04-26T16:58:55 < zyp> the norwegian terrorist actually made it a point during trial to stay out of the looney home
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2021-04-26T16:59:33 < ventyl> IIRC, back then it wasn't possible to sentende anyone for more than 25 years?
2021-04-26T16:59:42 < ventyl> so he would be free eventually
2021-04-26T16:59:55 < ventyl> *sentence
2021-04-26T17:00:06 < zyp> no
2021-04-26T17:01:28 < BrainDamage> you can always attempt scaphism
2021-04-26T17:02:48 < zyp> max sentence is 21 years, but it can be made extendable
2021-04-26T17:03:35 < zyp> you can effectively get lifetime in prison by having a sentence that gets extended every five years or so
2021-04-26T17:04:13 < zyp> s/is/was/
2021-04-26T17:04:16 < zyp> max sentence is 30 now
2021-04-26T17:04:16 < BrainDamage> anyone can be a terrorist, but you truly measure the average quality of life by the number of people that end up on a rampage
2021-04-26T17:04:51 < ventyl> isn't scandiavia something like capital of sexual criminality per capita now?
2021-04-26T17:05:27 < BrainDamage> i know it's one of the best places to get cronic alcoholism
2021-04-26T17:08:21 < ventyl> only if you are not afraid of flying and/or sailing
2021-04-26T17:08:39 < ventyl> so you can get to duty free zone on freight ship or fly to Prague
2021-04-26T17:08:56 < ventyl> bonus points if you are able to leave freight ship in UK on your own
2021-04-26T17:12:12 < karlp> what's sexual criminality?
2021-04-26T17:12:31 < karlp> (I'd suggest there may be reporting bias in stats on sexual criems too..)
2021-04-26T17:14:13 < BrainDamage> criminality has often different definitions state by state, so it's hard to compare numbers directly easily
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2021-04-26T17:32:06 < Xogium> ugh can I go strangle whoever decided to mess up github organisation pages ?
2021-04-26T17:32:07 < Xogium> lol
2021-04-26T17:32:38 < Xogium> I just spent about 4 hours trying to figure out why repositories wouldn't be available in a fresh organisation, because
2021-04-26T17:32:57 < Xogium> my screen reader was litterally saying 'repositories not available'
2021-04-26T17:33:19 < Xogium> but it turns out that it got confused because gh added an empty span tag in their html with the title set to, not available
2021-04-26T17:44:01 < Streaker> maybe tweet at them?
2021-04-26T17:44:26 < BrainDamage> caw
2021-04-26T17:44:34 < Xogium> tweet tweet
2021-04-26T17:44:36 < Xogium> ;)
2021-04-26T17:44:38 < Xogium> :p
2021-04-26T17:44:46 < BrainDamage> I think there's several cli interfaces to github
2021-04-26T17:44:52 < Xogium> more seriously don't have twitter :D
2021-04-26T17:45:28 < BrainDamage> they might work better for you
2021-04-26T17:45:35 < Xogium> hmmm maybe yeah
2021-04-26T17:45:42 < Xogium> I'll have to check those
2021-04-26T17:46:09 < Streaker> Criteria: (a) At least one mode of operation and information retrieval that does not require user vision shall be provided, or support for Assistive Technology used by people who are blind or visually impaired shall be provided. 
2021-04-26T17:46:15 < Streaker> Level of Support: Supports with exceptions 
2021-04-26T17:47:13 < Streaker> https://government.github.com/accessibility/
2021-04-26T17:49:27 < Laurenceb> wtf windoze10 is lunix mint tier
2021-04-26T17:49:46 < Laurenceb> all muh outlook gui elements have disappeared
2021-04-26T17:50:01 < Laurenceb> have to click on the blank space where they should be to get them back
2021-04-26T17:50:16 < Laurenceb> literally more glitchy than mint
2021-04-26T17:50:28 < Xogium> hmm
2021-04-26T17:50:32 < Xogium> I see
2021-04-26T17:50:45 < Xogium> but it still wasn't very nice this 'not available' stuff lol
2021-04-26T17:51:17 < Streaker> Xogium: that's why I said tweet at them. this is something that they assume they have done properly and it works.
2021-04-26T17:51:36 < Xogium> to be fair with them, it kind of is hart to spot I think
2021-04-26T17:51:51 < Xogium> I mean, sighted folks don't ever see it
2021-04-26T17:51:55 < Streaker> well if your eyesight is good enough, its probably impossible to spot.
2021-04-26T17:52:04 < Xogium> yeah
2021-04-26T17:52:40 < Xogium> I do have to wonder why they have an empty span tag with not available in there
2021-04-26T17:53:19 < Xogium> but, whatever x)
2021-04-26T17:55:08 < Steffann> Laurenceb are you sure the hardware of your pc/laptop is even alright?
2021-04-26T17:55:26 < Steffann> The amount of glitchy video stuff you have makes me wonder if your hw is alright 
2021-04-26T17:57:28 < Xogium> it sure does sound weird
2021-04-26T17:57:29 < ventyl> Xogium: it can be spot pretty easilly if you turn CSS off
2021-04-26T17:57:42 < Xogium> ventyl: hah, really ?
2021-04-26T17:57:44 < ventyl> which used to be pretty standard part of web development process back when I did web
2021-04-26T17:58:03 < Xogium> seems fair
2021-04-26T17:58:31 < ventyl> Xogium: well, without CSS span acts as if it wasn't there
2021-04-26T17:58:39 < Xogium> oh
2021-04-26T17:58:42 < Xogium> makes sense
2021-04-26T18:04:50 < Laurenceb> Steffann: this is on another machine
2021-04-26T18:04:56 < Laurenceb> maybe I'm radiactive
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2021-04-26T18:37:36 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NAcHnkF2Gw musiks
2021-04-26T19:09:40 < Steffann> Good good. Verlapping part of Venn diagram, kakium69 ?
2021-04-26T19:09:47 < Steffann> Overlapping *
2021-04-26T19:10:04 < kakium69> sure
2021-04-26T19:10:05 < fenugrec> Verdammt
2021-04-26T19:13:10 < Steffann> Why so early kakium69 ?
2021-04-26T19:13:25 < Steffann> And is fenugrec alright, do you know?
2021-04-26T19:13:42 < kakium69> yes, yes
2021-04-26T19:14:55 < fenugrec> Steffann, I'm ok, thanks
2021-04-26T19:15:20 < Steffann> You need some vitamin D, kakium69 ?
2021-04-26T19:15:23 < Steffann> Sunlight
2021-04-26T19:15:32 < kakium69> yes
2021-04-26T19:15:45 < kakium69> but sun is very hot
2021-04-26T19:15:55 < fenugrec> kaki posted that music a few days ago... hope it wasn't playing in a loop for the whole time
2021-04-26T19:24:13 < Steffann> Ohno, kaki did a repost?
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2021-04-26T19:29:29 < kakium69> oh no
2021-04-26T19:47:54 < antto> why is there abobe sh*t in the topic?!
2021-04-26T19:50:41 < englishman> surely you mean Adobe® Shit®
2021-04-26T19:50:51 < BrainDamage> This channel has been recently acquired by Adobe™ as one of its subsidiaries. Existing platform users will soon be migrated to Adobe Premium© support, we hope to provide you an enjoyable user experience.
2021-04-26T19:51:20 < antto> BrainDamage, fo real?
2021-04-26T19:51:39 < antto> <idontbelieveyou.gif>
2021-04-26T19:52:19 < englishman> Trademarks are an important part of the social fabric and should be respect at all times, especially while Chatting® on Adobe® Freenode™
2021-04-26T19:52:35 < fenugrec> yes, this will become a subscription-based, cloud-enabled community
2021-04-26T19:52:56 < antto> pls
2021-04-26T19:53:28 < antto> crApdobe
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2021-04-26T21:50:55 < machinehum> Is this a reasonable way to ref? https://imgur.com/a/WRowPlD Or do people do it the other way around?
2021-04-26T21:51:12 < machinehum> C30 is on the bottom, the rest of caps are above
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2021-04-26T22:00:17 < Steffann> this makes the most sense imho. the alignment triggers me though :P
2021-04-26T22:01:02 < machinehum> Yeah I'll make it all nice
2021-04-26T22:01:06 < machinehum> Don't you worry
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2021-04-26T22:34:32 < Laurenceb> calling usb pros
2021-04-26T22:34:49 < Laurenceb> can anyone help me understand this?
2021-04-26T22:36:11 < Laurenceb> bmRequestType: 0x22
2021-04-26T22:36:11 < Laurenceb>     0... .... = Direction: Host-to-device
2021-04-26T22:36:11 < Laurenceb>     .01. .... = Type: Class (0x1)
2021-04-26T22:36:11 < Laurenceb>     ...0 0010 = Recipient: Endpoint (0x02)
2021-04-26T22:37:26 < Laurenceb> bRequest: 1  wValue: 0x0100 wIndex: 1 (0x0001)  wLength: 3 Data Fragment: 80bb00
2021-04-26T22:37:52 < Laurenceb> its some sort of UAC control to endpoint 1 aiui, but what?
2021-04-26T22:38:09 < Laurenceb> >three byte payload
2021-04-26T22:38:19 < Laurenceb> doesnt even seem to exist in uac spec
2021-04-26T22:42:13 < Laurenceb> wiah
2021-04-26T22:42:16 < Laurenceb> >UM2195
2021-04-26T23:07:14 < Laurenceb> derp
2021-04-26T23:07:21 < Laurenceb> its the set frequency command
2021-04-26T23:10:35 < qyx> machinehum: I usually fence such refs in a box with an arrow
2021-04-26T23:21:35 < fenugrec> machinehum, I find giving any thought to silk before finishing routing to be a waste of time P)
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2021-04-26T23:31:02 < machinehum> lol yeah
2021-04-26T23:31:08 < machinehum> Routing pretty close done
--- Day changed Tue Apr 27 2021
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2021-04-27T07:58:09 < antto> o_O
2021-04-27T07:58:26 < antto> senpai is afro?
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2021-04-27T08:09:29 < t4nk_freenode> the bigger question is: why isn't he looking for his answer in an insane-asylum hehe
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2021-04-27T13:07:39 < Laurenceb> any lunix pros here?
2021-04-27T13:07:40 < Laurenceb> muh audio is glitching :(
2021-04-27T13:07:56 < Laurenceb> looks like some sort of data drop at about 7Hz
2021-04-27T13:08:03 < karlp> have you considered, just maybe, abandoning this linx mint trashfire of an install you have?
2021-04-27T13:08:09 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-04-27T13:08:38 < Laurenceb> need to get wurk shit finished first
2021-04-27T13:09:48 < Laurenceb> I'll try playing with buffer config
2021-04-27T13:15:48 < Laurenceb> wait
2021-04-27T13:15:54 < Laurenceb> glitches are every 125ms
2021-04-27T13:16:08 < Laurenceb> default buffer update interval is 125ms
2021-04-27T13:16:54 < Xogium> man that hw sure sounds like a mess
2021-04-27T13:17:11 < Xogium> I never, ever had to tweak audio settings on my linux :O
2021-04-27T13:17:17 < Xogium> maybe I'm just lucky here XD
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2021-04-27T13:26:42 < Laurenceb> arecord -D plughw:1,0 -f S16_LE -c 2 -r 48000 -B 100000000 -M loopback_-7dB_6k5_7k5.wav
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2021-04-27T13:26:52 < Laurenceb> lol that takes a while to glitch
2021-04-27T13:28:22 < Laurenceb> maybe alsa has broken
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2021-04-27T13:31:32 < Laurenceb> nope
2021-04-27T13:31:33 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-04-27T13:31:39 < Laurenceb> worked fine yesterday
2021-04-27T13:34:47  * Laurenceb is out of ideas
2021-04-27T13:34:55 < Laurenceb> I need a random idea generating machine
2021-04-27T13:35:06 < Laurenceb> something is bad with buffers... somewhere
2021-04-27T13:38:43 < Laurenceb> maybe I should try increasing the number of interrupts or something
2021-04-27T13:38:52 < Laurenceb> but that doesnt explain why it stopped working today
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2021-04-27T13:41:28 < karlp> so... that's a no then :)
2021-04-27T13:42:15 < Laurenceb> heh wtf
2021-04-27T13:42:17 < Laurenceb> it works
2021-04-27T13:42:48 < Laurenceb> setting ten interrupts per buffer interval and it doesnt glitch
2021-04-27T13:45:15 < Laurenceb> wait no
2021-04-27T13:45:40 < Laurenceb> its just glitching so frequently that the corruption is getting spread across the spectrum
2021-04-27T13:47:23 < ventyl> ninja glitch
2021-04-27T13:50:56 < Laurenceb> yeah I can see it in the data
2021-04-27T13:51:21 < ventyl> bad ninja glitch
2021-04-27T13:51:43 < Laurenceb> looks like prob 8 misisng samples per interrupt
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2021-04-27T13:54:46 < Xogium> tbh, it feels like your mobo id glitchy at this point to me :/ you have so many audio and video glitch
2021-04-27T13:54:47 < ventyl> off-by-one?
2021-04-27T13:54:51 < ventyl> erm, off-by-eight?
2021-04-27T13:55:21 < Xogium> but, what'd I know lol
2021-04-27T13:55:27 < karlp> ventyl: you should be using this for can-fd, none of that stm32g4 and h7 crap: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/microcontrollers-and-microprocessors/8-bit-mcus/pic-mcus/pic18-q84
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2021-04-27T13:56:46 < ventyl> karlp: given the chip shortage, one cannot rule out, that I will :)
2021-04-27T13:57:40 < ventyl> ok, time to get less rectangular tyres for car
2021-04-27T14:03:48 < karlp> why were your old ones rectangular?
2021-04-27T14:04:48 < ventyl> this particular car is old/new-timer and stays in garage a lot. they are also quite old, maybe 12 years or so
2021-04-27T14:06:08 < karlp> I know non-steelbelted jeep tires go flat sided quick but really? I didn't think this was any real concern in "proper" normal car tires?
2021-04-27T14:06:15 < karlp> or at least, hadn't been for decades...
2021-04-27T14:06:33 < karlp> but hey, like I have a garage anyway, let alone spare cars to just park there.
2021-04-27T14:07:22 < ventyl> well, you can tell it if you spin the whell on ballancer. after certain amount of stand time you get beyond point where it makes sense to put any more weights on
2021-04-27T14:08:09 < zyp> what's the point of a car you're not gonna drive?
2021-04-27T14:08:19 < karlp> makes your dick look bigger, I'mtold...
2021-04-27T14:08:43 < ventyl> i drive it, occasionally, that's why I am not very amused by amount of rectangularity of those old tyres
2021-04-27T14:09:14 < ventyl> and that's also how stuff for veteran rallye emerges. people are too lazy to put their old this to scrapyard
2021-04-27T14:09:15 < Laurenceb> ventyl: yeah its def not off by 1
2021-04-27T14:09:19 < jpa-> i can understand the "car for scale" in dick pics, but it seems one should try to get tiny car as the reference
2021-04-27T14:09:22 < Laurenceb> looks like 8 to me
2021-04-27T14:09:29 < englishman> tesla's earnings statement released last night says: "we were able to navigate through global chip supply shortage issues in part by pivoting extremely quickly to new microcontrollers" i wonder what they switched to
2021-04-27T14:09:33 < Laurenceb> I should try sending a PRN through the speakers
2021-04-27T14:09:42 < Laurenceb> then I can correlate exactly
2021-04-27T14:10:22 < Laurenceb> wonder if pulseaudio could be responsible, it should be at a higher level, but maybe it is screwing with alsa
2021-04-27T14:10:41 < karlp> englishman: might have just moved from 384k to 512k parts in same footprint?
2021-04-27T14:10:56 < karlp> easy spin on a known trouble poitn at the moment, not actually lying?
2021-04-27T14:11:17 < englishman> tesla booked $272m in buttcoin profit as well
2021-04-27T14:11:40 < karlp> meh, all the pictures on silabs training are b0rked. worked yesterday. nice one
2021-04-27T14:12:08 < karlp> 400 bad request, who fucked up that?!
2021-04-27T14:12:12 < Steffann> Blame mint lunix karlp
2021-04-27T14:12:43  * karlp giggles
2021-04-27T14:17:43 < ventyl> karlp: that's what rest of automotive world was effectively forced to do
2021-04-27T14:18:09 < ventyl> I know that at least users of one widely used MCU family had to do this
2021-04-27T14:18:42 < karlp> thsi being, "switch from 384k to 512k in the same footprint" ? or were you referring to the englishmans vague "pivot to new..."
2021-04-27T14:18:54 < ventyl> 384k to 512k
2021-04-27T14:19:11 < ventyl> and I doubt that any "fat" automotive MCU will be happy with 384k of Flash
2021-04-27T14:19:37 < karlp> I jus picked some numbers, read X with X+1 if you prefer
2021-04-27T14:19:40 < ventyl> we were just a stupid actuator with about a dozen of sensors and our SW was slowly overflowing 768k flash
2021-04-27T14:20:06 < karlp> gotta make sure misra only lets you do single return right ;)
2021-04-27T14:20:10 < karlp> more layers!
2021-04-27T14:20:18 < karlp> that will make it safe!
2021-04-27T14:20:28 < ventyl> misra actually doesn't make the most demand on flash
2021-04-27T14:20:35 < ventyl> it only makes source code fugly
2021-04-27T14:21:08 < ventyl> main offender is matlab+simulink+targetlink
2021-04-27T14:21:18 < karlp> yeah, that will do it :9
2021-04-27T14:21:25 < ventyl> it bloats the code roughly 10x
2021-04-27T14:21:37 < ventyl> and also makes it fugly
2021-04-27T14:22:05 < ventyl> and then there is interconnect layer, which also consumes a lot of flash and RAM
2021-04-27T14:28:00 < karlp> now, why doesn't swo work on my fucking efr32 today?
2021-04-27T14:28:07 < zyp> flashbacks to $oldjob
2021-04-27T14:28:50 < zyp> I don't miss having to work on interfacing with simulink :)
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2021-04-27T14:33:02 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-04-27T14:33:07 < Laurenceb> >audacity records ok
2021-04-27T14:33:10 < qyx> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/fragment/product_related/series_information/series_level_diagram/group0/da/4a/c4/c2/a4/cc/44/e6/STM32H7_series_SS1951/files/STM32H7_series_SS1951.jpg/_jcr_content/translations/en.STM32H7_series_SS1951.jpg
2021-04-27T14:33:19 < qyx> is it that hard to make the table actually.. a table?
2021-04-27T14:33:50 < qyx> photoshopped webdevs
2021-04-27T14:42:42 < Laurenceb> maybe I could just use windoze to test my hardware
2021-04-27T14:43:28 < englishman> https://layerci.com/blog/crypto-miners-are-killing-free-ci/
2021-04-27T14:43:34 < englishman> buttcoin strikes again
2021-04-27T14:45:13 < zyp> time to start CIcoin, where people mine coins by executing CI jobs
2021-04-27T14:54:01 < karlp> heh, compelxity studio "reformat file" only reformats the sections of the file that are enabled, anythign in an #ifdef block is just ignored.
2021-04-27T14:54:12 < karlp> which is .... correct, ish, just not really very helpful
2021-04-27T14:56:26 < Steffann> qyx drop it in https://extracttable.com/ works surprisingly well. Although annoying and not entirely useful :P
2021-04-27T14:59:39 < effractur> englishman: it is actually a "sovled" problem there is plenty of research to fingerprint mining software 
2021-04-27T14:59:46 < effractur> but this is a easier solution
2021-04-27T15:00:09 < Laurenceb> why cant lunix just work
2021-04-27T15:00:10 < Laurenceb> reee
2021-04-27T15:00:28 < Laurenceb> windows is too dumbed down, cant get the right level of control
2021-04-27T15:03:42 < karlp> effractur: lots of things are "solved" yet still massive problems....
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2021-04-27T15:04:02 < Laurenceb> ^ linux audio
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2021-04-27T15:23:50 < englishman> buttcoin clearly needs a "final solution"
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2021-04-27T15:24:14 < Laurenceb> montero looks good
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2021-04-27T15:32:09 < bitmask> i gets ma second vaccine dose today yay
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2021-04-27T15:54:13 < bitmask> do comparators source/sink current like a reg op amp?
2021-04-27T15:55:02 < fenugrec> some comps are open-drain, so sink-only. Even pushpull comps will not behave like a reg nor an opamp
2021-04-27T15:56:55 < bitmask> ok
2021-04-27T15:58:10 < fenugrec> if you're trying to drive a load with a comparator, you're... comparating wrong
2021-04-27T15:58:19 < bitmask> just an led
2021-04-27T16:00:25 < fenugrec> I guess most comps can drive 4-5mA just fine
2021-04-27T16:00:49 < bitmask> i think a lot can handle 20mA, this one can
2021-04-27T16:01:02 < bitmask> im doing <=10 anyway
2021-04-27T16:01:39 < bitmask> also one last question, can I have negative voltage on the inputs but connect the low side power pin to gnd so that it outputs gnd as low?
2021-04-27T16:04:12 < fenugrec> datasheet will tell ("input voltage range"), but unlikely for typical parts. Arrange voltage dividers and clamping to avoid that Vin < V- unless you're sure
2021-04-27T16:05:28 < bitmask> well its driving a led so I guess it doesnt matter if one side is negative, just gotta adjust the current limiting resistor
2021-04-27T16:05:59 < fenugrec> yes, if you have the proper negative supply availabl
2021-04-27T16:07:30 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-04-27T16:07:36 < Laurenceb> >setting 10ms buffer works
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2021-04-27T16:24:57 < Laurenceb> I have an idea
2021-04-27T16:25:05 < Laurenceb> its very cold in my troll lair today
2021-04-27T16:25:16 < Laurenceb> and this shit runs off rc oscillator
2021-04-27T16:25:43 < Laurenceb> and uses adaptive endpoints, maybe lunix couldnt handle the drift
2021-04-27T16:26:02 < Laurenceb> keeeekkkkk hyperloop emailz
2021-04-27T16:26:13 < Laurenceb> >wait is there a global tronics shortage?! oh shit
2021-04-27T16:26:47 < Laurenceb> >dude what are we going to do about this sudden and unforseen event
2021-04-27T16:28:01 < specing> Maybe it's time to retool for less electronics
2021-04-27T16:28:29 < specing> I was surprised to learn that you can still buy a new car without a radio
2021-04-27T16:30:11 < karlp> at least here, the "base model" is _massively_ stripped down, then the "middle" moddle costs nearly as much as top of the line, and top of the line only adds shit like bigger wheels and bling shit
2021-04-27T16:30:20 < karlp> I dont' think I've see an option with _no_ radio though.
2021-04-27T16:35:36 < Laurenceb> keeek wut
2021-04-27T16:35:45 < Laurenceb> >Patsy Stevenson is a physics undergrad
2021-04-27T16:36:26 < Laurenceb> wtf I'm embarrassed to by a physics grad now
2021-04-27T16:36:32 < Laurenceb> *be
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2021-04-27T16:47:45 < bitmask> theres always fucking something
2021-04-27T16:50:39 < Steffann> language bitmask
2021-04-27T17:04:05 < bitmask> :)
2021-04-27T17:05:08 < bitmask> As
2021-04-27T17:05:08 < bitmask> long as the voltage on the op amp input leads does not
2021-04-27T17:05:09 < bitmask> become negative, the circuit can handle negative input
2021-04-27T17:05:09 < bitmask> voltages
2021-04-27T17:05:19 < bitmask> As long as the voltage on the op amp input leads does not become negative, the circuit can handle negative input voltages
2021-04-27T17:05:21 < bitmask> oh
2021-04-27T17:05:21 < bitmask> boy
2021-04-27T17:05:24 < bitmask> hah
2021-04-27T17:05:26 < bitmask> what does that mean
2021-04-27T17:05:48 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-04-27T17:05:57 < zyp> just what it says
2021-04-27T17:06:16 < bitmask> it sounds like a contradiction
2021-04-27T17:06:28 < bitmask> as long as it does not become negative it can be negative
2021-04-27T17:07:31 < jpa-> bitmask: in many opamp configurations, there is a resistor divider between input and the output
2021-04-27T17:07:32 < zyp> circuit != opamp
2021-04-27T17:07:56 < jpa-> the resistor doesn't care about negative, and if the middle value between input and output is positive, the opamp never sees the negative voltage either
2021-04-27T17:08:07 < bitmask> ohh
2021-04-27T17:09:26 < jadew> in the past week the grandparent of a colleague of my wife died from covid and the parent of a colleague of mine
2021-04-27T17:11:31 < Mangy_Dog> R2COM wow... are you really that caouls or just trolling for internet lols?
2021-04-27T17:11:36 < jadew> maybe nobody, but my point is that now I have anecdotal evidence too, not just untrustworthy statistics, if you can appreciate the irony
2021-04-27T17:11:36 < bitmask> since I'm driving a LED with 24v should I use two resistors in series to share the drop or should I use a resistor divider before it
2021-04-27T17:11:37 < Mangy_Dog> calous 
2021-04-27T17:13:29 < jpa-> bitmask: two resistors in series sounds smarter
2021-04-27T17:14:00 < jadew> jpa-, it's the same in terms of power
2021-04-27T17:15:05 < jpa-> jadew: why? resistor divider would sink extra current to ground
2021-04-27T17:15:32 < jadew> why would you use a voltage divider?
2021-04-27T17:15:49 < jpa-> isn't that what bitmask asked about?
2021-04-27T17:16:01 < bitmask> it was a stupid idea sorry !
2021-04-27T17:16:05 < bitmask> it happens :P
2021-04-27T17:16:07 < jadew> jpa-, I missed that, yeah
2021-04-27T17:16:25 < jadew> my brain ignored it because it was dumb
2021-04-27T17:16:35 < bitmask> well fuck you too jadew :P
2021-04-27T17:16:43  * jadew sees the best in people :P
2021-04-27T17:16:50 < jpa-> how should we punish bitmask for bringing up such a stupid idea?
2021-04-27T17:16:56 < bitmask> haha
2021-04-27T17:18:10 < bitmask> hmm is circuitlab worth paying for? 
2021-04-27T17:18:44 < jadew> for simulation?
2021-04-27T17:18:47 < bitmask> yea
2021-04-27T17:18:50 < bitmask> i like the ui
2021-04-27T17:18:54 < jadew> I just use ltspice
2021-04-27T17:19:05 < bitmask> maybe i should get used to that
2021-04-27T17:19:23  * karlp used spice frrom within kicad the other day, it worked better than expected, at least for making a netlist quickly :)
2021-04-27T17:19:43 < jadew> I wanted to try that too
2021-04-27T17:19:48 < karlp> certainly faster to get going than an empty text file with ngspice
2021-04-27T17:20:09 < karlp> and you still have the complete text to feed to ngspice anyway, so... works wellish
2021-04-27T17:20:52 < bitmask> oh good they have ltspice for mac
2021-04-27T17:23:01 < bitmask> omg this ui sucks
2021-04-27T17:23:04 < bitmask> i wanna puke
2021-04-27T17:23:30 < jadew> learn the shortcuts
2021-04-27T17:23:35 < bitmask> yea
2021-04-27T17:24:34 < bitmask> how do you rotate :P
2021-04-27T17:24:43 < jadew> ctrl+r
2021-04-27T17:24:53 < bitmask> how do you move shit :P wtf is going on
2021-04-27T17:24:59 < jadew> F7
2021-04-27T17:25:07 < jadew> or F8 to move while keeping things connected
2021-04-27T17:25:36 < bitmask> so weird
2021-04-27T17:28:18 < karlp> just use falstad ;)
2021-04-27T17:28:31 < bitmask> yea maybe
2021-04-27T17:32:28 < jadew> there's so much accent put on SPICE in academia and they weren't able to come up with anything truly good
2021-04-27T17:33:58 < jadew> has any exceptionally good tool come out from academia?
2021-04-27T17:34:56 < jadew> nothing I use...
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2021-04-27T17:42:38 < karlp> probably a lot of things you use without knowing though...
2021-04-27T17:43:10 < jadew> it's possible
2021-04-27T17:53:04 < BrainDamage> academia doesn't manifacture things, andd itt's not its role to
2021-04-27T18:19:00 < kakium69> mathlab is used for everything in academia
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2021-04-27T18:35:22 < bitmask> man, i gotta finish this board
2021-04-27T18:35:27 < bitmask> it shouldnt have taken this long
2021-04-27T18:38:40 < bitmask> if you are dispensing water and you have the choice to put the water through a calcite filter that adds some calcium back into the water. would you rather have two switches, one that dispenses water and the other dispenses calcium water or do you have a switch to choose and a single dispense button
2021-04-27T18:40:14 < bitmask> im thinking separate buttons cause then if I add other options its easier
2021-04-27T18:43:22 < BrainDamage> do you use water where a little limescale would be a problem/
2021-04-27T18:43:52 < karlp> you just want one fucking dispense button.
2021-04-27T18:43:54 < BrainDamage> or use massive amounts of water from the same tap that aren't destined for human consumption?
2021-04-27T18:44:18 < karlp> that sounds like the sort of choice that the user shuldn't be making anyway.
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2021-04-27T18:44:38 < BrainDamage> because if it's no to both, then you should always dispense calcite water
2021-04-27T18:45:37 < bitmask> its no but i dont want calcium always if it affects the flavor
2021-04-27T18:45:57 < bitmask> id just want the calcium for flavored stuffs like coffee/tea
2021-04-27T18:46:29 < bitmask> i havent tried the filter yet so im not sure how strong it is
2021-04-27T18:46:38 < karlp> if you're geeking out on coffee tea to tha tpoint, why would you ever cross contaminate it with mere water consumption?
2021-04-27T18:47:39 < bitmask> what now? whats getting 'contaminated'?
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2021-04-27T19:17:13 < bitmask> more....caffeine....
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2021-04-27T19:44:49 < aandrew> don't take meth without tea, it's just meh.
2021-04-27T19:45:24 < MrMobius> it's just meth
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2021-04-27T20:00:11 < bitmask> if anyone wants a laugh or to point out errors please help yourself: https://imgur.com/a/EKXEDS7
2021-04-27T20:00:19 < bitmask> im still working on them but getting close to being done
2021-04-27T20:00:40 < bitmask> no need to point out smoothing caps and stuff, i know those are missing
2021-04-27T20:19:54 < englishman> Laurenceb came from academia and he's a tool
2021-04-27T20:20:35  * bitmask claps
2021-04-27T20:25:30 < qyx> bitmask: is the 6n8 cap enough?
2021-04-27T20:25:40 < bitmask> thats not an input cap
2021-04-27T20:25:47 < bitmask> i havent added that yet
2021-04-27T20:25:48 < qyx> sry I couldn't resist :>
2021-04-27T20:25:52 < bitmask> bastard
2021-04-27T20:25:55 < bitmask> :P
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2021-04-27T20:46:05 < qyx> anyone used https://computing.llnl.gov/projects/zfp?
2021-04-27T20:47:25 < BrainDamage> pic looks like chocolate, now I'm hungry
2021-04-27T20:49:36 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/EKXEDS7 in the second pic is it pointless to have pull down resistors between the two SSR input pins?
2021-04-27T20:49:56 < bitmask> (water switch and calcite switch)
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2021-04-27T20:50:53 < bitmask> its an LED so a simple voltage swing from being left floating shouldnt do anything as it needs to turn on the led to do anything, right?
2021-04-27T20:51:18 < bitmask> oh wait
2021-04-27T20:51:18 < bitmask> wtf
2021-04-27T20:51:27 < bitmask> oh nvm
2021-04-27T20:51:31 < bitmask> question remains
2021-04-27T20:52:09 < qyx> yeah no need to have a resistor between input terminals of U? and U?
2021-04-27T20:53:08 < qyx> LEd is not like a mosfet gate that you need to discharge it
2021-04-27T20:53:47 < bitmask> k thx just wanted to make sure
2021-04-27T21:10:32 < karlp> nice erorr: "cannot move location counter backwards (from 0000000020008de8 to 0000000020008000)"
2021-04-27T21:12:05 < karlp> linker script has macros and tricks to try and report running out of ram, but is clearly failing
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2021-04-27T21:44:30 < Ecco> Hi everyone :)
2021-04-27T21:45:21 < Ecco> Dumb question: I'm not sure I understand how GCC's stack-protector works.
2021-04-27T21:45:53 < Ecco> Does it check for a given "magic" number on a certain stack location before performing a "return to subroutine" call?
2021-04-27T21:46:17 < Ecco> But in that case, what would prevent an attacker who found a way to put junk on the stack to put the magic value where it's expected?
2021-04-27T21:50:10 < ventyl> normally, "canary" is chosen as pseudo-random number upon every start of context
2021-04-27T21:53:23 < Ecco> oh, ok makes sense
2021-04-27T21:53:34 < Ecco> but then where is the expected value kept?
2021-04-27T21:53:44 < ventyl> somewhere
2021-04-27T21:53:45 < Ecco> let's say on context start I pick a value of, say, 12
2021-04-27T21:54:03 < Ecco> but then couldn't a stack-smashing attack overwrite the stored value of 12?
2021-04-27T21:54:24 < ventyl> usually not, because stack tends to be positioned at the top of the address space
2021-04-27T21:55:59 < Ecco> I'm not sure I understand :)
2021-04-27T21:56:01 < effractu1> Ecco: so there are ways to leak this canary and put it back but that only works in really specific situations
2021-04-27T21:56:37 < effractu1> Ecco: https://ctf101.org/binary-exploitation/stack-canaries/
2021-04-27T21:56:37 < ventyl> Ecco: if you start overwriting stack really hard, you end up writing beyond end of RAM
2021-04-27T21:57:10 < ventyl> if there is memory protection implemented, MPU will fry you dead. if there is no memory protection, you will simply send you data into /dev/null
2021-04-27T21:57:21 < Ecco> hmm, ok, makes more sense
2021-04-27T21:57:24 < Ecco> thanks for the help guys!
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2021-04-27T21:58:30 < MrMobius> is it just for preventing stack smashing or do they use canaries to catch when you run out of stack space?
2021-04-27T21:58:47 < MrMobius> recurse too much or something
2021-04-27T21:59:35 < effractur> only stack smashing
2021-04-27T21:59:52 < effractur> there are other protection stuff in place for running out of stack spac
2021-04-27T22:00:55 < MrMobius> hmm, i put a value at the end of the stack and increment it constantly in assembly to catch overflows. maybe canary isnt the right word for that
2021-04-27T22:01:17 < effractur> MrMobius: as in stack overflows?
2021-04-27T22:01:23 < effractur> well its it still a canary
2021-04-27T22:01:41 < MrMobius> right
2021-04-27T22:01:52 < ventyl> we will implement any possible measures in order to avoid usage of memory protection
2021-04-27T22:02:11 < effractur> why do you want to avoid memory proection?
2021-04-27T22:02:57 < MrMobius> me? i do it on chips with no memory protection
2021-04-27T22:03:03 < MrMobius> hardware protection
2021-04-27T22:03:34 < effractur> sure but better is then to just formaly proof that you will never run out of stack space
2021-04-27T22:03:45 < effractur> but that is a lot more hassle
2021-04-27T22:03:59 < ventyl> well, don't use recursion
2021-04-27T22:04:12 < ventyl> and dynamic allocation of memory and you are mostly safe
2021-04-27T22:04:44 < ventyl> then it is just a matter of finding the deepest possible call graph and summing up frame size along the way
2021-04-27T22:05:31 < effractur> ventyl: and don't use VLA
2021-04-27T22:05:55 < ventyl> and vla stands for?
2021-04-27T22:06:14 < effractur> variable length arrays
2021-04-27T22:06:22 < ventyl> umm. you can
2021-04-27T22:06:33 < effractur> gcc allocates htem on the stack
2021-04-27T22:06:36 < ventyl> you just have to pre-allocate them statically
2021-04-27T22:06:42 < effractur> then its not a VLA :P
2021-04-27T22:07:05 < ventyl> and btw I don't want to avoid memory protection
2021-04-27T22:07:33 < effractur> but also just compiling with scan-build etc can be helpfull
2021-04-27T22:11:49 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/bXucKe1.jpg  all i needed was a couple jst-ph 6 pin :/
2021-04-27T22:13:39 < Steffann> keep it away from your kids bitmask
2021-04-27T22:13:47 < bitmask> will do
2021-04-27T22:29:52 < bitmask> what are 0805 generally, 0.125 W?
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2021-04-27T22:49:29 < fenugrec> bitmask, can be less, check datasheets
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2021-04-27T22:50:38 < fenugrec> can be more, too. some yageo RC0805 are 0.25W
2021-04-27T22:51:28 < bitmask> i know can be, thats why i said generally, theres gotta be a vast majority being the same
2021-04-27T22:51:41 < bitmask> could be wrong
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2021-04-27T23:18:16 < ventyl> > Current amount of dead PineTimes (or ruined bundled programming connectors) due to attempted soldering is 4 (update this number when suitable).
2021-04-27T23:18:19 < ventyl> :D
2021-04-27T23:20:08 < aandrew> you're frying them with poor soldering?
2021-04-27T23:20:52 < ventyl> that's excerpt from pine64 wiki
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--- Day changed Wed Apr 28 2021
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2021-04-28T00:32:58 < karlp> englishman: "just buy batteries on ali" he says... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MkmaD.png
2021-04-28T00:33:31 < englishman> haha
2021-04-28T00:33:32 < fenugrec> what's wrong with that
2021-04-28T00:33:42 < englishman> nothing wrong with that :)
2021-04-28T00:33:43 < fenugrec> it's clearly a two-way plane ticket for you to pick them up
2021-04-28T00:34:12 < englishman> id charge that too if i was a dhl guy asked to walk over lava to deliver some vape shit
2021-04-28T00:34:15 < fenugrec> they probably charge less to pack illegal immigrants in seacans
2021-04-28T00:35:55 < englishman> this one is nice too: US $1.93 - Shipping: US $1,052.63 
2021-04-28T00:36:06 < karlp> then there's this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2OFRi.png
2021-04-28T00:36:22 < karlp> that shop appears to ship them, but only one by one?
2021-04-28T00:36:35 < fenugrec> cheaper to buy a laptop battery and scavenge the cells maybe
2021-04-28T00:37:01 < englishman> you don't have vape shops in lavaland?
2021-04-28T00:37:20 < karlp> sure, but they charge a forture
2021-04-28T00:37:49 < karlp> a vape shop would be easily double this, and this is ~triple nkon: https://www.rafborg.is/is/vefverslun/litium-hledslurafhlodur/18650-hledslurafhlada-mflotum-toppi-2900mah-3637v
2021-04-28T00:38:19 < englishman> what's wrong with nkon again?
2021-04-28T00:38:24 < aandrew> must be something with Iceland, I get $36 shipping which isn't awesome but also isn't a plane ticket
2021-04-28T00:38:25 < karlp> won't ship
2021-04-28T00:38:36 < englishman> sounds like the vape shop price is actually good then
2021-04-28T00:38:46 < karlp> no, vape shop would be double rafborg...
2021-04-28T00:38:50 < karlp> ie, 6 times nkon.
2021-04-28T00:39:29 < aandrew> https://imgur.com/a/gRHP3YM
2021-04-28T00:39:32 < englishman> ah ok
2021-04-28T00:40:03 < karlp> hrm, found a vape shop onl about 15% more than rafborg, but still :)
2021-04-28T00:40:06 < englishman> rafborg it is then
2021-04-28T00:41:05 < aandrew> how do the vape shops ship shitloads of 18650s, do they use concrete-lined containers or something?
2021-04-28T00:42:03 < qyx> maybe they ship on a canoe?
2021-04-28T00:42:07 < qyx> instead of air
2021-04-28T00:42:27 < qyx> I mean, ship to .is and the sell there
2021-04-28T00:42:47 < englishman> surely by skeið
2021-04-28T00:44:31 < karlp> heh, tried to look for built up packs, like drill batteries
2021-04-28T00:44:39 < karlp> 1784 euro shipping, for one...
2021-04-28T00:45:14 < qyx> what about your czech friends
2021-04-28T00:45:30 < qyx> couldn't they resend them?
2021-04-28T00:46:24 < englishman> https://www.husa.is/netverslun/verkfaeri/rafmagns-hledsluverkfaeri-aukahlutir/rafhlodur-hledslutaeki/?itemid=5255313
2021-04-28T00:46:24 < karlp> fuck no.
2021-04-28T00:46:25 < englishman> hahhaha, ouch
2021-04-28T00:46:50 < karlp> englishman: ahah! no way would I buy one of them locally just for parts
2021-04-28T00:47:01 < fenugrec> welp, I know what to bring as contraband if I ever go to volcanoland
2021-04-28T00:47:02 < karlp> rafborg and the vape shops are at least on par...
2021-04-28T00:47:26 < englishman> depending on what you want, you can just 3d print a power tool battery adapter
2021-04-28T00:47:35 < englishman> dewalt is only 13.6k
2021-04-28T00:47:51 < fenugrec> alibob could probably cut you a good deal on a full container, sea regs for hazmats is simpler than air
2021-04-28T00:47:54 < karlp> yeah, that's not a horrible idea honestly, but, needs the 3d printer ;)
2021-04-28T00:48:05 < englishman> thorny could print you something
2021-04-28T00:48:07 < englishman> as practice
2021-04-28T00:48:23 < karlp> I'm normally ok with just having a higher rice locally, becuase normally, if I can wait on shipping, I can have it cheaper.
2021-04-28T00:48:35 < karlp> but liion is just, "no for you! only pay!"
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2021-04-28T01:00:33 < karlp> oh, so, one of the drone duders here is running a "all drones, all night, all lava" show or something tonight: https://www.visir.is/k/?jwsource=cl
2021-04-28T01:00:59 < karlp> planning on keeping 5-6 up all the time, for the SUPER MOOOOON or something
2021-04-28T01:01:30 < karlp> shoudl run for the next 8 hours or so...
2021-04-28T01:03:14 < qyx> Villa 404
2021-04-28T01:03:15 < qyx> :(
2021-04-28T01:04:13 < karlp> it looked suspicious, but I dliberately clicked their own share link.
2021-04-28T01:04:15 < karlp> one tick
2021-04-28T01:04:31 < karlp> scroll down https://www.visir.is/g/20212102116d/bein-utsending-dronar-fljuga-yfir-gosinu-i-alla-nott to the play button
2021-04-28T01:06:15 < qyx> wtf is he doing
2021-04-28T01:06:29 < qyx> my head is rotalavad
2021-04-28T01:21:39 < Mangy_Dog> anyone know of a simple to follow USB mass storage device project using the stm32f103 and a winbond flash chip?
2021-04-28T01:25:43 < bitmask> do you connect NC pins to gnd or just leave em floating
2021-04-28T01:26:04 < Mangy_Dog> i tend to float
2021-04-28T01:26:48 < bitmask> k
2021-04-28T01:28:53 < bitmask> open drain output that you arent using is fine to just leave floating?
2021-04-28T01:29:57 < aandrew> yep outputs can float
2021-04-28T01:30:08 < aandrew> it's inputs that can oscillate
2021-04-28T01:30:44 < bitmask> k
2021-04-28T01:31:22 < bitmask> think i got all my pins doin what they need to do, just gotta add a bunch of capacitors and possibly tune some values
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2021-04-28T08:25:13 < machinehum> suhhhhh dudessss
2021-04-28T08:25:30 < machinehum> Hey guys I know HTML
2021-04-28T08:25:36 < machinehum> HOW TO MEET LADIES
2021-04-28T08:26:13 < zyp> ok
2021-04-28T08:26:42 < machinehum> ok
2021-04-28T08:27:27 < machinehum> I'm sorry couple too many beers https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1552/7487/products/tv-silicon_valley-2014_-erlich-tj_miller-tshirts-s01e01-i_know_html_tshirt_01-595x335_720x.jpg?v=1520449721
2021-04-28T08:37:36 < jpa-> machinehum: so how many ladies have you met so far? did you try them out on ie?
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2021-04-28T08:55:36 < machinehum> internet explorer?
2021-04-28T08:56:03 < machinehum> I don't actually know how to meet ladies I just like Erlich
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2021-04-28T15:03:32 < jadew> http://5.12.147.65/stuff/20210428_135830_.jpg
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2021-04-28T15:18:30 < karlp> that last digits seem realllllly plausible :)
2021-04-28T15:18:33 < karlp> what are you mreasusing?
2021-04-28T15:18:55 < karlp> I mean, is that just sitting there with the leads disconnected? :)
2021-04-28T15:19:09 < zyp> off by 0.000011
2021-04-28T15:19:24 < jadew> :) it was just current through a resistor, the measurement was really noisy, because I was generating it with 1 mV
2021-04-28T15:19:42 < jadew> and the PSU is noisy at that level
2021-04-28T15:21:38 < jadew> zyp, yeah, that would been nice
2021-04-28T15:22:38 < jadew> shopping for some higher value resistors now
2021-04-28T15:22:52 < jadew> biggest one I had was 10 MΩ
2021-04-28T15:23:42 < jpa-> you could measure leakage current of some ceramic capacitor if you want low currents :)
2021-04-28T15:23:53 < jadew> yeah, was going to do that
2021-04-28T15:52:03 < fenugrec> some funk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_T2aaS7DUw
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2021-04-28T16:14:15 < upgrdman> shit, i didn't realize SSDs got this hot... http://farrellf.com/temp/hot_m2_ssd.jpg
2021-04-28T16:14:35 < upgrdman> that was while copying ~3.8TB to it, but still... fuck
2021-04-28T16:15:06 < jpa-> time to put a huge heatshink and RGB led fan on it
2021-04-28T16:15:54 < upgrdman> ya
2021-04-28T16:16:29 < upgrdman> it looks like a hotspot on the controller ic. maybe a silpad between the ssd and the case would be enough of a heatspreader
2021-04-28T16:17:17 < qyx> inland? whats that
2021-04-28T16:17:19 < qyx> also, qlc
2021-04-28T16:17:42 < upgrdman> qyx, yes, qlc. it's not a boot ssd. just bulk storage.
2021-04-28T16:17:54 < qyx> I would not trust qlc in a external enclosure
2021-04-28T16:18:02 < upgrdman> and im not poor, so wanted something faster than a hdd for bulk storage.
2021-04-28T16:18:25 < qyx> your data may turn void after a month or two
2021-04-28T16:18:31 < qyx> (without power)
2021-04-28T16:19:06 < upgrdman> i have multiple offline backups. but got any evidence to back up that dead-after-2-months claim?
2021-04-28T16:22:06 < qyx> "qlc data retention" is the keyword
2021-04-28T16:25:23 < qyx> https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/NAND-Data-Retention.jpg
2021-04-28T16:26:39 < jpa-> that's the worst case (maximum total data written) specs though
2021-04-28T16:27:24 < upgrdman> hmm
2021-04-28T16:27:57 < upgrdman> well, good to keep in mind i guess. in any case, the enclousure will usually be plugged into a powered usb hub, so hopefully it wont affect me much
2021-04-28T16:28:21 < upgrdman> and when not docked, i expected to plug it in at least once a month anyway
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2021-04-28T16:55:06 < upgrdman> when a chinagirl tries to make pizza... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S9WZq2WDQA   wtf. her videos are usually pretty good, but that shit looks disgusting. :/
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2021-04-28T16:58:29 < BrainDamage> that's a latke, not a pizza
2021-04-28T17:01:16 < upgrdman> a shiity latke.
2021-04-28T17:01:24 < upgrdman> latkes are amazing.
2021-04-28T17:01:34 < upgrdman> but that... thing... looks inedible
2021-04-28T17:04:14 < karlp> qyx: what's the on/off time ratio that chart refers to, and wht's the difference between consumer and enterprise there?
2021-04-28T17:05:12 < jpa-> on/off is temperatures
2021-04-28T17:05:43 < karlp> right, but how long time?
2021-04-28T17:05:43 < jpa-> and it is from the JEDEC spec of acceptance limits IIRC
2021-04-28T17:05:55 < karlp> I mean, whhat does on/off _mean_
2021-04-28T17:07:48 < karlp> or even, qyx: where's the article that came from
2021-04-28T17:08:09 < jpa-> good question actually, as the NAND cell itself doesn't see the power supply directly
2021-04-28T17:08:18 < jpa-> so maybe there is some internal automatic rewrite mechanism?
2021-04-28T17:09:00 < jpa-> one guess could be "temperature it was written in" vs. "temperature it is stored in"
2021-04-28T17:09:08 < jpa-> but yeah, i'm just guessing here
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2021-04-28T17:28:40 < qyx> karlp: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/205382-ssds-can-lose-data-in-as-little-as-7-days-without-power
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2021-04-28T18:32:04 < karlp> fek, I can't even get basic pockets in my step files working anymore
2021-04-28T18:32:08 < karlp> w.t.f
2021-04-28T18:35:41 < jpa-> hmm, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1950958   linux 5.11.12 breaks various cdc acm devices, including arduinos
2021-04-28T18:42:37 < karlp> no part of the linked linux comit looks like something for stable, but hey, what do I know...
2021-04-28T18:47:05 < fenugrec> 'acm_poison_urb" sounds a bit evil too
2021-04-28T18:49:44 < jpa-> https://lwn.net/Articles/851870/  the release log for 5.11.12 has several commits to cdc-acm
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2021-04-28T19:52:32 < Laurenceb> oh sheeettt
2021-04-28T19:52:43 < Laurenceb> >someone from babbyshake has been hired by hyperloop
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2021-04-28T20:00:52 < specing> hypershake
2021-04-28T20:01:09 < specing> hypershake baby-in-the-loop
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2021-04-28T21:27:46 < englishman> 99 week delay for a lite-on led
2021-04-28T21:44:34 < englishman> 52 week delay for a spartan6
2021-04-28T21:45:55 < Steffann> :)
2021-04-28T21:46:15 < Steffann> I can deliver stroopwaffles in 4 weeks englishman :P
2021-04-28T22:14:32 < bitmask> good afternoon gents
2021-04-28T22:18:31 < Steffann> good evening mr bitmask
2021-04-28T22:18:40 < bitmask> how goes it
2021-04-28T22:27:53 < aandrew> my daughter just texted me
2021-04-28T22:27:54 < aandrew> "So how's your day going? I just asked a paralyzed patient to walk to my stretcher in my final exam"
2021-04-28T22:28:13 < effractur> lol
2021-04-28T22:29:55 < bitmask> haha
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2021-04-28T22:46:38 < Steffann> is she the new jesus, aandrew?
2021-04-28T22:55:02 < englishman> no stock of lvds oscillators either
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2021-04-28T22:56:53 < Steffann> so your boss will not be happy with you englishman?
2021-04-28T22:57:16 < englishman> idk i told them to buy 12+ months of stock like 2 months ago
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2021-04-28T22:59:58 < BrainDamage> it's your fault for not imposing enough on their stupidity
2021-04-28T23:00:44 < Steffann> that indeed
2021-04-28T23:03:06 < Steffann> You can still offer them stroopwaffels to make it up, englishman
2021-04-28T23:04:10 < englishman> no im just going to buy seven keysight 34420A
2021-04-28T23:04:23 < englishman> electronics are someone else's problem mostly
2021-04-28T23:11:19 < bitmask> if you are powering 1-6 small LEDs would you add a capacitor just to ensure stable supply? not sure if the tiny voltage drop (or something else) matters but the leds are on a different board connected by about 1m of wire.
2021-04-28T23:12:07 < BrainDamage> who cares
2021-04-28T23:12:42 < bitmask> just wondering what best practices are
2021-04-28T23:14:31 < BrainDamage> best practices are saving the cost of 1 extra cap, board space and dev time
2021-04-28T23:14:38 < bitmask> heh ok
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2021-04-28T23:59:47 < zyp> bitmask, where would you connect the cap?
--- Day changed Thu Apr 29 2021
2021-04-29T00:00:13 < zyp> if you've got a local buffer next to the leds driving them, I'd decouple the buffer
2021-04-29T00:01:18 < zyp> if you're powering the led individually through 1m of cable, there isn't a related supply rail on the board to decouple, so I'm not sure what you have in mind
2021-04-29T00:02:16 < zyp> you'll want decoupling next to whatever is driving the led current, not the led itself
2021-04-29T00:04:22 < bitmask> i was gonna put it on board before the long wire, didnt have any reasoning behind it though
2021-04-29T00:05:53 < zyp> can you draw a sketch?
2021-04-29T00:09:20 < bitmask> this is mostly up to date: https://imgur.com/a/yzTsCLo    so the top board has the comparators on the right and the outputs are LED1 - LED5.  I have a 6 pin jst connector that outputs 12V and the 5 "outputs" which sink the current).   The second board connects those lines to the leds + resistors
2021-04-29T00:09:38 < bitmask> i know its strange but as long as it works im fine with it
2021-04-29T00:11:09 < zyp> yeah, so the drivers in this case are the comparators, and you've already decoupled those
2021-04-29T00:11:12 < zyp> job done
2021-04-29T00:11:20 < bitmask> k cool
2021-04-29T00:12:44 < zyp> is this where I talk you into using my awesome greenpak solution instead? :p
2021-04-29T00:12:56 < bitmask> greenpak?
2021-04-29T00:15:16 < zyp> yeah, I have been playing with SLG46811, using it to run a string of adressable leds, and it has four comparator channels that I'm using to monitor voltage rails
2021-04-29T00:15:21 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/MrBP7.mp4
2021-04-29T00:15:37 < zyp> fourth led is set to go green at 1056mV and red at 1280mV
2021-04-29T00:16:34 < bitmask> interesting
2021-04-29T00:17:15 < zyp> config looks like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uTimo.png
2021-04-29T00:17:47 < zyp> the six AND gates are what decides what turns on what
2021-04-29T00:19:36 < bitmask> looks fun but more complex than I need
2021-04-29T00:20:13 < bitmask> you have got me wondering if I should use rgb instead of 6 leds though
2021-04-29T00:21:20 < zyp> for what you're doing I'd probably rather use one comparator channel and compare against a reference generated with some resistor combinations
2021-04-29T00:22:00 < zyp> could probably use four outputs to drive the resistors and run 16 levels
2021-04-29T00:23:55 < zyp> assuming the comparator is fast enough
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2021-04-29T01:14:08 < kakium69> yes hello
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2021-04-29T01:33:25 < kakium69> Laurenceb: how is lunix?
2021-04-29T01:33:42 < kakium69> did you get your audio finally working?
2021-04-29T02:39:39 < Laurenceb> sort of
2021-04-29T02:39:45 < Laurenceb>  -B16000
2021-04-29T02:39:54 < Laurenceb> 16ms buffer more or less works
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2021-04-29T02:51:53 < kakium69> is that laptop a traction control too?
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2021-04-29T02:58:14 < kakium69> did you send your improvements to tolvards Laurenceb?
2021-04-29T02:58:19 < kakium69> Tolvards*
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2021-04-29T03:11:28 < Laurenceb> DO NOT WEAR THE MORGELLON WORM COMMUNIST DEATH MASKS AND DO NOT TAKE THE BIOWEAPON DEATH KILL SHOTS ( THIRD WAVE ) THAT WILL BE USED INCONJUNCTION WITH THE 5G DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPON (KILL GRID ) THIRD WAVE
2021-04-29T03:16:42 < kakium69> yeah
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2021-04-29T03:42:15 < Laurenceb> noice
2021-04-29T03:42:22 < Laurenceb> lunix mint broken again
2021-04-29T03:42:31 < Laurenceb> its the hand with arrow symbol bug
2021-04-29T03:54:41 < kakium69> xfce?
2021-04-29T03:56:13 < Laurenceb> cinnamon
2021-04-29T03:56:25  * Laurenceb zzz
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2021-04-29T04:06:19 < jadew> I'm gonna get a geiger counter, thinking about this: https://radiascan.com/
2021-04-29T04:06:31 < jadew> any better ideas?
2021-04-29T04:09:25 < jadew> they don't mention the battery life which worries me
2021-04-29T04:10:12 < kakium6973> does it have screen off mode?
2021-04-29T04:10:21 < jadew> for sure
2021-04-29T04:10:35 < kakium6973> that oled is going to plow throught battery
2021-04-29T04:10:44 < jadew> but even so, it could still be power hungry
2021-04-29T04:10:47 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-29T04:11:24 < kakium6973> well whatever operating tube and m3 takes
2021-04-29T04:11:59 < jadew> right, but I hear some can last for years
2021-04-29T04:12:12 < jadew> so you can have it on at all times
2021-04-29T04:12:56 < kakium6973> dosimeter
2021-04-29T04:13:12 < jadew> yeah
2021-04-29T04:13:24 < kakium6973> I think it's slightly different consept
2021-04-29T04:13:27 < jadew> they operate the same, no?
2021-04-29T04:13:34 < jadew> they just keep track of things
2021-04-29T04:15:14 < jadew> also, I don't think it has a tube
2021-04-29T04:15:36 < jadew> or maybe I didn't see right
2021-04-29T04:15:40 < jadew> let me find the teardown photos
2021-04-29T04:15:52 < kakium6973> it has some sort of chamber
2021-04-29T04:16:12 < jadew> https://www.zielonyatom.pl/radiascan-701a/
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2021-04-29T04:16:28 < jadew> ah, that's a window there, isn't it?
2021-04-29T04:18:38 < kakium6973> yes
2021-04-29T04:20:03 < jadew> you're using geiger counters?
2021-04-29T04:21:18 < kakium6973> no
2021-04-29T04:26:18 < kakium6973> it's not really needed
2021-04-29T04:26:44 < kakium6973> but it would be interesting tool to own one
2021-04-29T04:27:17 < jadew> yeah, I think I can do without, but it would give me piece of mind in some cases
2021-04-29T04:28:11 < kakium6973> steel contamination happens time to time
2021-04-29T04:29:20 < kakium6973> "lets take this machine to scrapper it looks expensive"
2021-04-29T04:29:51 < jadew> well, if it's just a bit radioactive, it's no biggie
2021-04-29T04:30:26 < jadew> and you're not going to eat it so that makes it even less of a problem
2021-04-29T04:30:40 < kakium6973> I went to local scrapper once to wander throught all the interesting stuff
2021-04-29T04:30:43 < Streaker> what tube is it based on? Some of those russian tubes are useless for measuring things like background radiation.
2021-04-29T04:31:14 < jadew> Streaker, it's visible in the teardown
2021-04-29T04:31:20 < kakium6973> they had devices conneced to loaders that indicated radiation to machine operator
2021-04-29T04:31:24 < jadew> apparently this is one of the best budget counters you can get
2021-04-29T04:32:06 < kakium6973> it's probably what you need
2021-04-29T04:32:42 < Streaker> That's a pancake tube. I don't remember if that one is good or not, but I think it is sensitive mainly to alpha and it is quite insensitive to beta/gamma.
2021-04-29T04:33:29 < kakium6973> it has some switchable "filter"
2021-04-29T04:33:38 < kakium6973> with metal plate
2021-04-29T04:33:43 < Streaker> you can't filter out what was not measured in the first place.
2021-04-29T04:33:47 < jadew> hmm, I have to check more reviews then, from what I've seen, it seemed to be the most responsive to all 3 types
2021-04-29T04:34:09 < jadew> better than higher priced ones even
2021-04-29T04:34:47 < Streaker> maybe I'm remembering wrong.
2021-04-29T04:34:56 < kakium6973> maybe their implementation is just so good it overcomes any difference to traditional tube
2021-04-29T04:36:52 < jadew> https://youtu.be/KM8FsqJ8TiE?t=170
2021-04-29T04:41:01 < jadew> https://youtu.be/KM8FsqJ8TiE?t=408
2021-04-29T04:41:54 < jadew> after seeing other implementations this one seems really fast
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2021-04-29T04:46:11 < jadew> apparently it's the same kind of sensor as the one used in this counter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvWKXrPtgok
2021-04-29T04:49:29 < Streaker> the back of the pcb is interesting. the 400 volt circuit is not physically isolated from the rest 3.3V stuff.
2021-04-29T04:54:26 < jadew> apparently you can make one for gamma radiation with just a PIN diode
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2021-04-29T10:55:40 < invzim> pros, anyone know winsource?  Are they legit / good?  They keep popping up in octopart
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2021-04-29T13:28:27 < karlp> fucking silabs freertos uses 20k out of 32k ram on internal data stacks shit.
2021-04-29T13:28:33 < karlp> this is _not_ a good freertos port.
2021-04-29T13:37:21 < karlp> also, first time I've seen someone use (for ram section) a fixed size stack, _then_ .noinit, .dtaa, .bss, then a fixed size heap
2021-04-29T13:39:49 < karlp> music thyme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1urBLFpUg
2021-04-29T13:45:40 < jpa-> that's a good order IMO, catches stack overflows
2021-04-29T13:45:57 < karlp> it might be, just never seen it before :)
2021-04-29T13:46:04 < jpa-> and making the sizes fixed means that the code won't silently break when you add an extra static variable
2021-04-29T13:46:04 < karlp> and it makes diagnosing where it's all going a little weirder.
2021-04-29T13:46:28 < karlp> this elf anlyser is only finding 24k used, but it's still complaining that it's out of space...
2021-04-29T13:47:13 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/d8d50
2021-04-29T13:47:36 < karlp> I think this is silabs attempting to be helpful and using static stasks, instead of dynamic.
2021-04-29T13:47:45 < karlp> so they don't come out of heap.
2021-04-29T13:47:53 < jpa-> what is complaining that it is out of space?
2021-04-29T13:47:53 < karlp> still lots of shit seems far too big.
2021-04-29T13:48:23 < jpa-> but it feels like a common theme with bluetooth socs that they have like 32kB ram total and the bluetooth stack uses most of it
2021-04-29T13:49:36 < karlp> well, I guess this is one of the reasons it's much cheaper than the stm32wb, it has 256K ram
2021-04-29T13:50:54 < karlp> currently, its their tricks to calculate sizes that fail: autogen/linkerfile.ld:168 cannot move location counter backwards (from 00000000200081e8 to 0000000020008000)
2021-04-29T13:53:16 < karlp> ok, elf size thingy has some errors, let's fix them then first :)
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2021-04-29T14:32:01 < karlp> 1600 bytes used in the NVM cache, which is their "eeprom" which is also assigned 40KB of flash, out of the box...
2021-04-29T14:34:29 < skz81> <kakium69> Tolvards* >> Torvalds ?
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2021-04-29T14:39:37 < zyp> hmm
2021-04-29T14:41:34 < zyp> I've got some code that I need to store in both flash banks of a dual bank device -- what's the best way to go about getting them both loaded?
2021-04-29T14:43:28 < zyp> can I easily get objcopy to make a copy of the flash sections, offset the LMA and add them back?
2021-04-29T14:44:32 < zyp> hmm, looks doable
2021-04-29T14:53:38 < zyp> kinda works
2021-04-29T14:53:39 < zyp> warning: Loadable section ".bank2" outside of ELF segments
2021-04-29T15:00:25 < ventyl> that most probably still will work
2021-04-29T15:00:30 < ventyl> if you hack it sufficiently
2021-04-29T15:01:05 < ventyl> we've been, somehow, portion distributing debugging stuff with our production binaries by doing very nasty stuff
2021-04-29T15:01:28 < ventyl> eh
2021-04-29T15:01:36 < ventyl> *distributing portion of debugging stuff
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2021-04-29T15:08:50 < karlp> heh, one section, "The cache size must be set to a value greater than or equal to the number of
2021-04-29T15:08:52 < karlp> objects found in NVM3"
2021-04-29T15:09:13 < karlp> another section, "Cache Size: Number of objects to cache. To reduce access times, this number should be equal to or higher than the number of live
2021-04-29T15:09:15 < karlp> and deleted objects stored in NVM3 at any time.
2021-04-29T15:09:23 < karlp> so, is it "must" or "just to reduce access time" ?
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2021-04-29T17:24:20 < con3> Its just the stm32f733xx series that has an onboard USB HS PHY right?
2021-04-29T17:24:42 < con3> not sure if im missing one
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2021-04-29T17:29:10 < zyp> that's the only one I know of
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2021-04-29T17:31:35 < con3> external HS phy it is. this IC shortage is no bueno
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2021-04-29T18:00:51 < emeb> Time to revive an old chestnut - ST documentation for HSE hookup usually mentions Rext - a resistor in series with the crystal that's supposed to make it work better somehow. I've never used it and I don't know of anyone who's ever had an issue with HSE that's traceable to lack of Rext. Opinions?
2021-04-29T18:01:32 < jpa-> emeb: it's to protect the crystal if the output level of the chip exceeds the maximum power rating of the crystal
2021-04-29T18:02:08 < jpa-> pretty much non-issue for 3.3V chips at a few megahertz speeds, though karlp had some crystal that had particularly low power spec
2021-04-29T18:02:23 < emeb> jpa-: that's what I thought too.
2021-04-29T18:02:29 < karlp> jpa-: not actually convinved that was the problem actually, I think it was the crystal driver.
2021-04-29T18:02:43 < karlp> the reference manual actually explicitly listed the 1M, and I omiitted it.
2021-04-29T18:02:51 < karlp> as soon as I added it, it worked.
2021-04-29T18:02:53 < Steffann> Did you know about AN2867 emeb?
2021-04-29T18:03:11 < emeb> Steffann: yes, I've read it (long ago)
2021-04-29T18:03:18 < Steffann> Alright 
2021-04-29T18:03:28 < jpa-> yeah, AN2867 section 3.5.3 has more information
2021-04-29T18:03:30 < emeb> Just wondering if anyone had actually seen a problem.
2021-04-29T18:03:39 < karlp> and this as a parallel resistor, not the series resistor (in my case)
2021-04-29T18:03:43 < jpa-> karlp: yeah - but the crystal spec was still funny
2021-04-29T18:03:57 < karlp> it was, but when I looked a buunch more, it wasn't as funny as it appeared at first...
2021-04-29T18:04:14 < karlp> I mean, lower, but not at all uncommon...
2021-04-29T18:04:16  * karlp shrugs
2021-04-29T18:04:21 < karlp> I should really finish that project...
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2021-04-29T18:08:48 < karlp> ok, silabs micrium integ is just as bloated as their freertos example.
2021-04-29T18:09:53 < karlp> -size blah.elf, reports 0 for data.  -size -A blah.elf, reports .data, 1500...
2021-04-29T18:09:55 < karlp> wt?
2021-04-29T18:13:36 < zyp> haha
2021-04-29T18:17:17 < zyp> sounds like .data isn't considered data
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2021-04-29T18:33:19 < emeb> So I went back to  AN2867 section 3.5 and tried to estimate Rext for the 8MHz xtal that I use. Can't do it with the data provided by the xtal mfg.
2021-04-29T18:34:24 < emeb> mfg specs 200uW max drive level, but doesn't specify any of the lumped element values or ESR, so the only way to figure out actual power would be to rig up the xtal on the bench and make measurements.
2021-04-29T18:40:32 < karlp> sounds pretty normal :)
2021-04-29T18:42:42 < karlp> just keep using onenote online?
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2021-04-29T18:44:54 < karlp> ok, so, summary: bss usge of raw silabs ble thermo project is 8k/32k total.  with micrium/freertos, its ~18k/32k total.
2021-04-29T18:45:08 < karlp> that's a _lot_ of memory gone just for the rtos :|
2021-04-29T18:48:39 < ventyl> eh
2021-04-29T18:48:54  * ventyl hides
2021-04-29T18:52:37 < emeb> OK - found the ESR of my 7a-8.000 xtal and I measured the Vpp on the OSC_IN pin on one of my boards. Using eqn in section 3.5.2 I compute DL = 43uW. So well within the 200uW spec.
2021-04-29T18:52:41 < emeb> No Rext needed.
2021-04-29T18:56:54 < karlp> eh, no wonder all these calculations are borked.  silabs uses "variables" to get some reserved space, but then only uses the address of the start of them, with open ends, and reports things differently that way later.
2021-04-29T18:57:09 < karlp> so you get "sl_heap" size of 2k, but a later "heap" of 2k+remainder.
2021-04-29T18:57:27 < karlp> making it fucking complicated to use normal tools
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2021-04-29T20:11:02 < ventyl> it was praised a lot on underpowered machines due to GPU accelerated rendering
2021-04-29T20:11:14 < ventyl> but then it depends on level of support of OpenGL ES 3.1 I think
2021-04-29T20:11:23 < ventyl> if it sucks, then alacritty will suck too
2021-04-29T20:12:28 < ventyl> is there mesa?
2021-04-29T20:13:57 < ventyl> if it was, mesa can do SW emulation of HW acceleration and I'd expect that it is faster than plain old 1980s style X11 with server-side rendering
2021-04-29T20:15:30 < ventyl> then, enjoy
2021-04-29T20:15:43 < ventyl> i am lazy, I run fully blown kde plasma
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2021-04-29T20:45:26 < Steffann> not even running mint ventyl?
2021-04-29T20:46:37 < ventyl> i have never ran mint
2021-04-29T20:46:38 < Steffann> mint + Cinnamon is the holy grail i heard
2021-04-29T20:47:12 < ventyl> I ran ubuntu like 12 or 13 years ago until it dismantled itself after three months of use
2021-04-29T20:47:25 < antto> crapbuntu
2021-04-29T20:47:58 < ventyl> and the last time I've seen gnome in action, it was like redhat 6.2, or something like that
2021-04-29T20:48:02 < ventyl> '90s stuff
2021-04-29T20:50:32 < karlp> how do you measure the speed of a terminal anyway?
2021-04-29T20:51:43 < BrainDamage> unfortunately, text output is syncronous
2021-04-29T20:52:07 < BrainDamage> so programs block while text is processed by the terminal
2021-04-29T20:52:24 < BrainDamage> dump a lot of text in a slow terminal, and you'll see it stuttering
2021-04-29T20:52:25 < antto> BrainDamage, that's on crapdows
2021-04-29T20:52:36 < antto> cmd.exe
2021-04-29T20:52:36 < BrainDamage> no, this is on linux
2021-04-29T20:52:53 < antto> linux terminals usually have some cheats so they can vomit TONS of text
2021-04-29T20:53:09 < antto> coz that's what they typically gotta do
2021-04-29T20:53:37 < ventyl> yet it still makes them blocked
2021-04-29T20:54:25 < antto> thing is, cmd.exe draws the chars even if they won't be visible after a moment
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2021-04-29T20:54:41 < ventyl> it is super stupid
2021-04-29T20:55:01 < BrainDamage> write a program that sleeps 1ms and print the current time and the counter, then look at the timestamps
2021-04-29T20:55:04 < ventyl> it turns normally garbled output of parallel compilation into chineese tea
2021-04-29T20:55:08 < BrainDamage> they won't be at 1ms intervals
2021-04-29T20:55:10 < antto> linux terminals don't care to draw the text so pedantically while the buffer is beeing flooded with more text
2021-04-29T20:55:40 < BrainDamage> they still block the program flow
2021-04-29T20:55:49 < BrainDamage> and considerably so
2021-04-29T20:55:53 < antto> yes, but not the pixel drawing itself
2021-04-29T20:56:05 < ventyl> that's because unless you turn tty into cannonical mode, it buffers input internally until some arbitrarilly large chunk is buffered or until \n is spotted
2021-04-29T20:58:07 < karlp> BrainDamage: I get that, just ... a) don't do that, and b) what is the tool for  _measuring_ this "pseed" claim
2021-04-29T20:58:14 < karlp> like arteoo is saying a very particular "6x"
2021-04-29T20:59:03 < BrainDamage> karlp: yep, I don't do it, altough it's slightly annoying that if you want to build an efficient pipeline you must never output anything to terminal
2021-04-29T20:59:04 < ventyl> sudo time dmesg
2021-04-29T20:59:06 < ventyl> :>
2021-04-29T20:59:59 < BrainDamage> one typical example is makefiles, you don't want them spew all the warnings etc to terminal or that operation by itself can slow down the compilation considerably
2021-04-29T21:00:18 < BrainDamage> which is dumb as shit, but it's the way things are
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2021-04-29T22:06:52 < qyx> http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~toh/spectrum/findpeaksfit.m
2021-04-29T22:07:05 < qyx> wtf is wrong with matlabbers
2021-04-29T22:07:19 < qyx> laurenceb style code
2021-04-29T22:10:26 < Steffann> joy.
2021-04-29T22:13:05 < ventyl> that's a feature
2021-04-29T22:13:26 < ventyl> IIRC, at least older versions of matlab didn't like random whitespace, such as variable = value
2021-04-29T22:13:41 < ventyl> it yielded syntax error
2021-04-29T23:14:00 < bitmask> when designing UVLO for a switcher, should you do it based on what the input should be or what the output is.  like if you are switching 34V to 12V, would you just want it a little above the 12V or just under the 34V
2021-04-29T23:14:49 < bitmask> close to the output is more versatile but closer to what you know the input would be would reveal any problems
2021-04-29T23:15:08 < bitmask> meh i'll keep it lower
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 30 2021
2021-04-30T02:06:15 -!- kakium69 [575df3f3@87-93-243-243.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-04-30T02:06:16 < kakium69> hello night
2021-04-30T02:40:40 < kakium69> why my win10 desktop turns on display time to time?
2021-04-30T02:41:20 < kakium69> oh.. I have wired mouse now though
2021-04-30T02:41:44 < kakium69> but I think it did it even before with wireless mouse off
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2021-04-30T03:08:55 < kakium69> interesting
2021-04-30T03:09:16 < kakium69> win10
2021-04-30T03:09:32 < kakium69> in both machines
2021-04-30T03:09:44 < kakium69> another one has separate linux drive too
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2021-04-30T03:13:27 < kakium69> real power user
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2021-04-30T08:01:04 < machinehum> My roomate was up all night coughing and shit last night and had pain in his chest
2021-04-30T08:01:27 < machinehum> No he doesn't seem to want to get tested
2021-04-30T08:01:33 < machinehum> now*
2021-04-30T08:01:48 < machinehum> So I'm like fuck what the shit should I do
2021-04-30T08:03:10 < machinehum> This whole covid thing just fucking blows big loads
2021-04-30T08:06:09 < machinehum> At least I have my STM32 Blue Pill to take every night
2021-04-30T08:18:16 < jpa-> machinehum: go kiss him and go take the test yourself a few days later
2021-04-30T08:18:44 < jpa-> alternatively, wait until he sleeps and take the sample from his nose
2021-04-30T08:31:59 < MrMobius> wait, he was up all night coughing and shit himself?
2021-04-30T08:32:54 < MrMobius> might be something worse than covid
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2021-04-30T09:20:08 < bitmask> grrr why does mouser keep going offline
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2021-04-30T10:31:30 < antto> weefee?
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2021-04-30T13:57:26 < rajkosto> do stm32f103 have a unique id somewhere you can read out ?
2021-04-30T13:57:47 < karlp> did you even try reading the manual for that?
2021-04-30T13:57:53 < rajkosto> yes or no
2021-04-30T13:57:53 < karlp> perhaps under the "unique id" section?!
2021-04-30T13:58:00 < karlp> liek for realz yo
2021-04-30T13:58:12 < karlp> it's a feature on the datasheet and the product page....
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2021-04-30T14:47:50 < karlp> nice, https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-794618-2 and https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/212528-0200 have different orientation keying, despite looking ~identical in every other way
2021-04-30T14:51:17 < rajkosto> both just redirect to "electronic components" for me for some reason
2021-04-30T14:51:34 < ventyl> you don't possess the right cookie
2021-04-30T14:51:50 < zyp> yeah, mouser links are usually not shareable
2021-04-30T14:52:01 < rajkosto> mmmmm cookies
2021-04-30T14:53:43 < karlp> oh, dagnabbit
2021-04-30T14:53:45 < karlp> ok, sure.
2021-04-30T14:55:03 < karlp> left is TE: 3-794618-2, and right is molex 212528-200: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5sqa0.png
2021-04-30T14:55:12 < karlp> footprint is identical.
2021-04-30T14:55:29 < karlp> those ears on the sides of the TE part are for optional extra stability mounting pins
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2021-04-30T15:17:58 < jadew> https://nypost.com/2021/04/28/disaster-girl-selling-original-photo-behind-viral-meme/
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2021-04-30T15:18:47 < karlp> read nft, closed it again
2021-04-30T15:19:00 < fenugrec> haha
2021-04-30T15:19:12 < fenugrec> new f'in trash
2021-04-30T15:19:18 < jadew> oh, I thought he actually had it on paper
2021-04-30T15:19:23 < jadew> *she
2021-04-30T15:19:32 < jadew> I didn't read that much
2021-04-30T15:20:03 < jadew> I thought it was interesting that she sold the original photo
2021-04-30T15:20:17 < jadew> yeah, NFTs are for idiots
2021-04-30T15:20:28 < jadew> but good for her, now she can sell it again
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2021-04-30T15:35:40 < kakium69> somebody somewhere has probably waited for this.. time when you can buy and sell memes
2021-04-30T15:36:06 < jadew> which will be a meme in itself
2021-04-30T15:36:12 < jadew> if it isn't already
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2021-04-30T17:47:40 < Laurenceb> 07387787287
2021-04-30T17:47:54 < Laurenceb> CALL IT NOW
2021-04-30T17:48:33 < Steffann> +44 Laurenceb ?
2021-04-30T17:48:40 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-04-30T17:48:44 < Laurenceb> dont actually do it
2021-04-30T17:48:52 < Laurenceb> its Boris Johnsons mobile
2021-04-30T17:49:00 < Laurenceb> leaked on 8chan
2021-04-30T17:49:43 < Laurenceb> looks like its time for him to get a new phone lmao
2021-04-30T17:49:49 < Steffann> It used to be a dentist 
2021-04-30T17:50:18 < Steffann> http://neweragroup.co.uk/contact/ ..
2021-04-30T17:51:42 < Laurenceb> >it was just a troll all along
2021-04-30T17:51:48 < Laurenceb> bbc news says its real
2021-04-30T17:51:57 < Steffann> Oh no dentist. They did advertisement for a dentist google says
2021-04-30T17:52:07 < Steffann> Fake news bbc
2021-04-30T17:59:13 < Streaker> That intelligence guy said BJ's phone number has been public for 14 years. So we can assume it hasn't changed in 14 years.
2021-04-30T17:59:27 < Streaker> If 07387787287 used to belong to a dentist <14 years ago, then it isn't BJ's number.
2021-04-30T18:00:45 < Streaker> oh: "Callers to the number on Thursday night heard an automated message saying the phone was “switched off." By Friday it appeared to no longer be in use."
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2021-04-30T18:39:30 < jadew> looks so similar to romanian numbers
2021-04-30T18:47:19 < Laurenceb> 07831609599 apparently
2021-04-30T18:47:23 < Laurenceb> lol channer got it wrong
2021-04-30T19:15:59 < Steffann> So give it a try and record it for us Laurenceb 
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2021-04-30T19:46:32 < kakium69> lurencer: what would you even say to BJ?
2021-04-30T19:46:52 < kakium69> if you had conversation with him
2021-04-30T19:55:06 < aandrew> kakium69: usually guys say "yes please"
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2021-04-30T20:15:36 < karlp> you were the one who loved it so much
2021-04-30T20:15:41 < karlp> no-one else wanted to use it
2021-04-30T20:24:05 < englishman> lol
2021-04-30T20:24:19 < machinehum> jpa-: on it
2021-04-30T20:24:44 < R2COM> Kicad is so fucking much better now and im not even joking
2021-04-30T20:24:54 < R2COM> the only thing is of course doing DDR4-like designs
2021-04-30T20:25:02 < R2COM> where you need additional tools for layout SI checking
2021-04-30T20:25:14 < machinehum> R2COM: I just routed ddr3 with kicad
2021-04-30T20:25:17 < machinehum> idk about 4
2021-04-30T20:25:32 < machinehum> Length checker was decent, but didn't add via length
2021-04-30T20:25:42 < machinehum> But yeah kicad has gotten amazing imo
2021-04-30T20:25:46 < R2COM> i used to use kicad long time ago at a time when it was kinda thin/weak, but now in 2021 its different
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2021-04-30T20:30:52 < karlp> it isn't including via lenght?! that seems like a n easy, huge thing...
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2021-04-30T20:37:54 < jpa-> https://blogs.sw.siemens.com/hyperlynx/2011/01/27/vias-are-longer-than-their-length/   it's not entirely simple
2021-04-30T20:38:06 < jpa-> though even a basic board thickness assumption is closer than 0
2021-04-30T20:39:13 < karlp> just basic board thickness is all I was assuming...
2021-04-30T20:39:58 < karlp> I mean, at least not assuming 0...
2021-04-30T20:40:21 < jpa-> yeah, that would be "easy"; but not "huge" because it would be off anyway - generally you'd want equal amount of vias and at the same point on all length-matched tracks anyway
2021-04-30T20:40:40 < karlp> I guesss.... |
2021-04-30T20:41:57 < jpa-> i just wish freecad would suddenly have a similar jump in quality as kicad has had
2021-04-30T20:42:27  * karlp chuckles
2021-04-30T20:42:59 < karlp> this was a pretty fun regression today though: https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/issues/7975
2021-04-30T20:43:30 < fenugrec> freecad : "want to design assemblies ? choose one of these 4 incompatible plugins, developped by third parties, that may or may not become obsolete or unmaintained in the near future"
2021-04-30T20:44:06 < karlp> yeah, I struggle enough with "make cutouts on a vendor case" looking at bigger things looks super fragile...
2021-04-30T20:44:10 < machinehum> jpa-: That's just what I did
2021-04-30T20:44:21 < machinehum> Matched traces, same number of vias
2021-04-30T20:44:33 < machinehum> And I don't know why it's not integrated tbh... it does seem simple
2021-04-30T20:44:51 < machinehum> jpa-: What's wrong with freecad?
2021-04-30T20:44:58 < machinehum> I was really impressed with it
2021-04-30T20:45:25 < fenugrec> I will say, the freecad sketcher constraints are almost good
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2021-04-30T20:47:10 < karlp> fenugrec: yeah, sketcher is awesome, and it magically does the right thing most of the time, but fucking hell, if you ever get things in the wrong order, or try and go back to something later, it all explodes in pieces.
2021-04-30T20:47:33 < karlp> whee, they've already fixed the diff pair clearance thing
2021-04-30T20:49:00 < ventyl> karlp: that should get fixed soon-ish
2021-04-30T20:49:40 < jpa-> yeah, freecad mostly works, but feels like every time i use it i keep hitting something that just doesn't work
2021-04-30T20:49:58 < ventyl> and 0.19 is much, much better than 0.18
2021-04-30T20:53:11 < machinehum> 0.19 is hugh
2021-04-30T20:53:19 < machinehum> Assembly 4 is real nice IMO
2021-04-30T20:53:33 < machinehum> karlp: Yeah just don't do shit in the wrong order
2021-04-30T20:53:55 < machinehum> Also please move libopencm3 to a MIT license
2021-04-30T20:54:08 < fenugrec> hahah
2021-04-30T20:54:38 < fenugrec> == "Also please contact all contribs to locm3 since 2013 to ask to re-license"
2021-04-30T20:54:40 < jpa-> karlp: heh, i was thinking "what's so bad about that" when reading the dp gap stuff, until i got to your comment :)
2021-04-30T21:04:33 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: effractur, thePiGrepper_, fluiD, smvoss, nashpa, brdb, aidenhjj, ds2, R2COM, ABLomas,  (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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2021-04-30T21:13:32 < machinehum> karlp runs the show
2021-04-30T21:13:37 < machinehum> We all know it
2021-04-30T21:14:37 < jpa-> karlp isn't going to sue you, so go ahead and use it like it was MIT ;)
2021-04-30T21:16:29 < machinehum> https://pastebin.com/QwTXpqjT
2021-04-30T21:16:32 < machinehum> see
2021-04-30T21:17:12 < machinehum> Do it soley to piss of RMS
2021-04-30T21:18:29 < Streaker> haha. you said "sole"-ly
2021-04-30T21:25:05 < jpa-> machinehum: so you mean if you grep for karl, you get bunch of karl commits?
2021-04-30T21:26:06 < machinehum> jpa-: Yes I'm also showing off my knowledge of git and how to use a unix pipe and the grep utility
2021-04-30T21:26:36 < machinehum> Very high level GNU/Linux skills
2021-04-30T21:27:04 < Streaker> Karl never writes his name with a lower case k?
2021-04-30T21:30:03 < mawk> no
2021-04-30T21:31:37 < Steffann> Mawk is alive 😱
2021-04-30T21:31:43 < mawk> :(
2021-04-30T21:31:45 < mawk> of course
2021-04-30T21:31:59 < Steffann> Went looking for you under the brigde
2021-04-30T21:32:02 < mawk> lol
2021-04-30T21:32:06 < Steffann> Bridge
2021-04-30T21:32:08 < mawk> how was your kings day Steffann ?
2021-04-30T21:32:15 < mawk> how many monarques did you behead?
2021-04-30T21:32:24 < Steffann> Great. Enjoyed my day of
2021-04-30T21:32:37 < mawk> I saw many flags outside
2021-04-30T21:34:05 < Steffann> Yes few days/year we are nationalists
2021-04-30T21:34:25 < Steffann> May 4/5 is the next day youll see the.
2021-04-30T21:34:27 < Steffann> M
2021-04-30T21:34:31 < mawk> I see
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2021-04-30T21:34:38 < mawk> I am sick Steffann I keep coughing
2021-04-30T21:34:48 < mawk> I've been gargling lidocaine for the past half hour
2021-04-30T21:34:50 < mawk> but I still cough
2021-04-30T21:35:00 < Steffann> Got covidded again?
2021-04-30T21:35:04 < mawk> nooo
2021-04-30T21:35:08 < mawk> I never was covided
2021-04-30T21:35:12 < mawk> according to my covidometer
2021-04-30T21:35:22 < mawk> I bought a antigen test kit at albert heijn
2021-04-30T21:35:29 < mawk> but I haven't used it because it's 7€ and I don't want to waste them
2021-04-30T21:36:26 < Steffann> Aldi is goedkoper
2021-04-30T21:36:53 < mawk> is that an insult
2021-04-30T21:36:57 < mawk> you're the goedkoper
2021-04-30T21:37:11 < mawk> I have to goed koop some groceries soon though
2021-04-30T21:37:25 < mawk> also there's no aldi in delft
2021-04-30T21:37:30 < mawk> there's one but in the shitty part of town
2021-04-30T21:37:34 < mawk> it's probably not even delft
2021-04-30T21:37:42 < mawk> it's full of subsidised buildings and "licht tan" people
2021-04-30T21:38:01 < mawk> like they say on opsporing verzocht
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2021-04-30T21:39:09 < Steffann> Relevant video for mawk https://youtu.be/dbvsSMPN1i0
2021-04-30T21:40:00 < mawk> awful
2021-04-30T21:40:05 < mawk> awfulest quality
2021-04-30T21:40:15 < fenugrec> anyone have a source for buying bulk-ish USB cable ? i.e. 2pair + 2 power, shielded, with no connectors... there's some Belden partnos for CAN cabling, but horribly expensive
2021-04-30T21:40:40 < fenugrec> (i.e. I want CAN cabling but want to pay USB prices)
2021-04-30T21:41:32 < Steffann> Pay an intern to remove the connectors fenugrec 
2021-04-30T21:41:42 < mawk> best idea
2021-04-30T21:41:54 < mawk> you should wire some money to Steffann for the money gains
2021-04-30T21:42:02 < mawk> and some to me for suggesting to wire the money
2021-04-30T21:42:16 < machinehum> lol
2021-04-30T21:43:00 < fenugrec> Steffann, that's the best plan B. But they're usually max 1.5m lengths, kindof annoying
2021-04-30T21:43:29 < Steffann> I'll even ship stroopwafels back as a extra gift
2021-04-30T21:43:30 < mawk> you can find longer than that
2021-04-30T21:43:44 < mawk> my company buys them in bulk, one side is some kind of small connector and the other is a male usb A plug
2021-04-30T21:43:53 < mawk> and they're like 3m or 5m or whatever
2021-04-30T21:44:41 < Steffann> Cheapskates
2021-04-30T21:45:28 < fenugrec> huh I could by a 50mm-long USB cable for 27$ https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/würth-elektronik/632905731122/5723516
2021-04-30T21:45:31 < mawk> we use them like this Steffann 
2021-04-30T21:45:31 < fenugrec> *buy
2021-04-30T21:45:35 < mawk> without cutting the connector
2021-04-30T21:46:18 < mawk> lol fenugrec 
2021-04-30T21:46:52 < fenugrec> mawk, how much are you paying for 3m lengths, out of curiosity
2021-04-30T21:47:00 < jpa-> fenugrec: that's great value compared to this :)  https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/samtec-inc/SCRUS-17-G-00-25-AMS-AM/2664556
2021-04-30T21:47:15 < fenugrec> ah, scamtec
2021-04-30T21:47:23 < mawk> no idea fenugrec but if you remind me monday I can ask
2021-04-30T21:47:36 < fenugrec> yeas, 10x the price but 250mm length
2021-04-30T21:47:53 < mawk> buy a hundred and chain them
2021-04-30T21:47:58 < mawk> of course
2021-04-30T21:48:04 < fenugrec> nah it's good, I don't need tons of these, and yes I can very well spend 5$ per , and cut them
2021-04-30T21:49:32 < fenugrec> the impedance isn't perfectly matched ( 90ohms vs 120 for CAN) but probably inconsequential at 500k/1Mbps
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2021-04-30T23:16:37 < mawk> zyp: you know fourier series right?
2021-04-30T23:16:47 < mawk> what's the fourier series coefficients of x² ?
2021-04-30T23:17:11 < mawk> in x² = Σ a_n cos(nx)
2021-04-30T23:18:42 < mawk> too slow, it's a_0 = π²/3 and a_n = 4(-1)^n/n² for n > 0
2021-04-30T23:19:04 < mawk> totally unrelated question, finding the value of this sum was a famous problem unsolved for centuries: 1 + 1/2² + 1/3² + 1/4² + ...
2021-04-30T23:19:06 < mawk> can you solve it now?
2021-04-30T23:21:50 < antto> 42]
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2021-04-30T23:47:52 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-04-30T23:47:58 < Laurenceb>  /sys/fs/cgroup is not a valid cgroup2 filesystem
2021-04-30T23:48:04 < Laurenceb> ^on trying to start oomd
2021-04-30T23:54:33 < t4nk_freenode> so... it was in here the other day, right? About those booklets of smd capacitors, someone said 'I won't take the chance, last time I received unmarked ziplock bags'... If you don't have the equipment, what could you do to identify mistery smd capacitors?
2021-04-30T23:54:40 < ventyl> Laurenceb: is it mounted?
2021-04-30T23:55:12 < fenugrec> t4nk_freenode, that was me with the unmarked cuttape resistors
2021-04-30T23:55:17 < t4nk_freenode> ah ;)
2021-04-30T23:55:28 < Laurenceb> ventyl: how would I mount it?
2021-04-30T23:55:28 < fenugrec> unidentified smd capacitors : store them in the nearest trashcan
2021-04-30T23:55:35 < Laurenceb> its part of the main filesystem surely?
2021-04-30T23:55:51 < BrainDamage> it's part of the kernel
2021-04-30T23:56:03 < ventyl> Laurenceb: IDK, but stuff like debugfs has to be mounted separately, even if resides under /sys/
2021-04-30T23:56:07 < fenugrec> unless you have reels of them, you won't guess their voltage rating nor dielectric type easily
2021-04-30T23:56:14 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-04-30T23:56:22 < Laurenceb> so how do I fix it?
2021-04-30T23:56:47 < ventyl> and the last time I played with cgroups, Windows 7 was still the last Windows version
2021-04-30T23:57:33 < t4nk_freenode> I'm really lousy at electronics, but.. a capacitor is a sort of reservoir, so couldn't you connect a capacitor in series and poll the time difference before and after the capacitor orsth. but yeah.. guessing the voltage would be hard
2021-04-30T23:57:55 < BrainDamage> max voltage is the one for which it breaks
2021-04-30T23:58:05 < t4nk_freenode> probably, yeah
2021-04-30T23:58:07 < BrainDamage> and you'll need to break a few to know it reliably
2021-04-30T23:58:14 < fenugrec> yes, you can measure capacitance in many different ways. I'm arguing that for what they're worth, it's not worth the time unless you have a vast number of them
2021-04-30T23:58:25 < t4nk_freenode> sure.. I agree
2021-04-30T23:58:47 < qyx> Laurenceb: custom kernel?
2021-04-30T23:58:51 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: it should be builtin in the kernel and readily available
2021-04-30T23:59:01 < t4nk_freenode> but I got a whole bunch, and if my life depended on it, for example ;)
2021-04-30T23:59:33 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: what exactly is giving you that error
2021-04-30T23:59:52 < Laurenceb> oomd
--- Log closed Sat May 01 00:00:05 2021