--- Log opened Sat May 01 00:00:05 2021
--- Day changed Sat May 01 2021
2021-05-01T00:00:05 < BrainDamage> t4nk_freenode: there's all sort of parameters you want, ESR, ESL, capacitance, derating vs bias, max voltage
2021-05-01T00:00:11 < Laurenceb> I can see /sys/fs/cgroup is mounted
2021-05-01T00:00:17 < BrainDamage> that's not "what exactly'
2021-05-01T00:00:28 < BrainDamage> how are you launching oomd?
2021-05-01T00:00:29 < t4nk_freenode> darnit, I told you I'm lousy at electronics ;)
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2021-05-01T00:00:37 < mawk> nice I like cgroups
2021-05-01T00:00:50 < Laurenceb> just sudo oomd
2021-05-01T00:00:54 < mawk> Laurenceb: tell me what's in /proc/cmdline
2021-05-01T00:00:56 < qyx> why are you even touching that stuff
2021-05-01T00:01:08 < mawk> because cgroup is cool
2021-05-01T00:01:10 < BrainDamage> don't, use the systemd unitt
2021-05-01T00:01:13 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-05-01T00:01:16 < qyx> thats probably wrong
2021-05-01T00:01:36 < BrainDamage> no wonder it can't access cgroups
2021-05-01T00:01:47 < mawk> also give me the result of mount|grep cgroup
2021-05-01T00:01:49 < mawk> why BrainDamage ?
2021-05-01T00:01:56 < mawk> you can access cgroups if you want on the system
2021-05-01T00:02:07 < mawk> the issue here seems to be that cgroup v1 is mounted and not the unified hierarchy
2021-05-01T00:02:18 < mawk> it's supposed to be on /sys/fs/cgroup/unified though
2021-05-01T00:02:29 < mawk> maybe there are arguments to give to oomd to tell it where to look or something
2021-05-01T00:03:00 < BrainDamage> because oomd is systemd-oomd, it relies on systemd interface for cgroups
2021-05-01T00:03:09 < mawk> hmm
2021-05-01T00:03:23 < mawk> but why is it trying to access /sys/fs/cgroup directly then
2021-05-01T00:03:34 < Laurenceb> systemd-oomd doesnt exist
2021-05-01T00:03:45 < mawk> also there's no systemd interface to manipulate cgroups directly, other than just editing the units to change the limits manually which isn't very powerful
2021-05-01T00:03:53 < mawk> like you won't be able to use the freezer or memory cgroup or whatever
2021-05-01T00:03:56 < mawk> you need to touch it directly
2021-05-01T00:04:03 < Laurenceb> ah
2021-05-01T00:04:05 < Laurenceb> sudo systemctl start oomd
2021-05-01T00:04:05 < mawk> Laurenceb: systemctl start oomd ?
2021-05-01T00:04:06 < Laurenceb> works
2021-05-01T00:04:12 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-01T00:04:15 < Laurenceb> heh thanks
2021-05-01T00:04:34 < qyx> that broken mint is probably just pebkac
2021-05-01T00:04:38 < mawk> lol
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2021-05-01T00:05:37 < mawk> no antto wrong
2021-05-01T00:05:58 < mawk> super wrong
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2021-05-01T00:10:00 < englishman> hello everyone
2021-05-01T00:10:10 < englishman> i am going back to school, as work will be paying for my MBA
2021-05-01T00:10:33 < englishman> has anyone here done an MBA? or does anyone have suggestions on concentrations? i am considering finance
2021-05-01T00:10:55 < mawk> so you'll do MATHS englishman 
2021-05-01T00:10:57 < mawk> I'm proud of you
2021-05-01T00:11:02 < qyx> lol
2021-05-01T00:11:04 < englishman> well i are engineer
2021-05-01T00:11:13 < mawk> you is fake engineer
2021-05-01T00:11:17 < englishman> no
2021-05-01T00:11:17 < mawk> because not enough maths
2021-05-01T00:11:19 < mawk> but finance has lots of it
2021-05-01T00:11:21 < mawk> so it's good
2021-05-01T00:11:27 < BrainDamage> congrats
2021-05-01T00:11:56 < englishman> thank you
2021-05-01T00:13:11 < mawk> you want to become CEO englishman ?
2021-05-01T00:13:24 < englishman> some other interesting concentrations are: small business management, strategy and innovation, project management, global business
2021-05-01T00:13:29 < englishman> no not really
2021-05-01T00:13:45 < mawk> why finance then
2021-05-01T00:13:49 < BrainDamage> god, I hate the word innovation
2021-05-01T00:13:54 < mawk> lol
2021-05-01T00:14:06 < BrainDamage> it's used as if it has a meaning
2021-05-01T00:14:22 < mawk> it means "do"
2021-05-01T00:14:35 < mawk> let's innovate together = let's do stuff together
2021-05-01T00:14:50 < englishman> yeah, it's a marketing word, but that concentration is pretty interesting, it's about how to use research and your resources to predict how your market will chance
2021-05-01T00:14:53 < englishman> change
2021-05-01T00:15:24 < englishman> i guess finance because it is the most, and at the same time least, pure
2021-05-01T00:15:27 < englishman> like electrical engineering
2021-05-01T00:15:36 < englishman> a nice mix of maths and black magic
2021-05-01T00:16:09 < BrainDamage> you can both approach it pure mathematically or hands-on
2021-05-01T00:16:15 < fenugrec> gross
2021-05-01T00:16:40 < mawk> black magic is a racist word englishman you're not allowed to say it anymore it's the law
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2021-05-01T01:21:21 < zyp> mawk, it converges at π^2/6, but idk why
2021-05-01T01:23:43 < zyp> I see it's this sort of shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_number
2021-05-01T01:29:07 < mawk> zyp: I gave you all the toolz to tell why!!!!!
2021-05-01T01:29:22 < mawk> 22:16 <mawk> what's the fourier series coefficients of x² ?
2021-05-01T01:29:24 < mawk> 22:17 <mawk> in x² = Σ a_n cos(nx)
2021-05-01T01:29:26 < mawk> 22:18 <mawk> too slow, it's a_0 = π²/3 and a_n = 4(-1)^n/n² for n > 0
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2021-05-01T01:29:48 < zyp> you said totally unrelated, so meh
2021-05-01T01:29:54 < mawk> it was a joke
2021-05-01T01:29:57 < mawk> it was very related
2021-05-01T01:29:59 < mawk> lol
2021-05-01T01:30:11 < mawk> so I told you that x² = π³/3 + 4 Σ (-1)^n/n² cos(nx)
2021-05-01T01:30:14 < mawk> now, plug in x = π
2021-05-01T01:30:26 < mawk> cos(πn) = (-1)^n, so the other (-1)^n disappears
2021-05-01T01:30:40 < mawk> you get π² = π²/3 + 4 Σ 1/n²
2021-05-01T01:30:53 < mawk> so Σ 1/n² = π²/6
2021-05-01T01:30:59 < mawk> and that's it zyp , super mega easy
2021-05-01T01:31:03 < mawk> just using fourier series
2021-05-01T01:31:25 < mawk> if you do the same for fourier series of x^4, you get Σ 1/n^4 = π^4/90
2021-05-01T01:32:37 < mawk> how do you feel to have solved a problem that took top mathematicians centuries to solve using basic fourier shit zyp ?
2021-05-01T01:33:00 < mawk> we are the bestest humans to have lived
2021-05-01T01:33:08 < mawk> in a few generations we'll all be dead
2021-05-01T01:33:42 < Steffann> I will be for sure
2021-05-01T01:33:46 < mawk> :(
2021-05-01T01:34:27 < Steffann> Time to solve the time travel problem mawk
2021-05-01T01:34:32 < Steffann> Make us proud
2021-05-01T01:34:45 < mawk> no that's too easy
2021-05-01T01:34:48 < mawk> sry
2021-05-01T01:57:50 < t4nk_freenode> mawk is only into >= african-american magic.
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2021-05-01T03:04:47 < t4nk_freenode> hey, Steffann, btw, I saw that there's even a band: the amazing stroopwafels orsth.. kewl
2021-05-01T03:05:09 < t4nk_freenode> amusing song names too
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2021-05-01T03:05:56 < t4nk_freenode> didn; t listen to them though
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2021-05-01T03:22:06 < jadew> doing some reading on radiation
2021-05-01T03:22:46 < jadew> turns out that you don't want to live near a nuclear plant that has an accident
2021-05-01T03:23:58 < t4nk_freenode> don't believe that, it's just expressed deliberately... so they can live there themselves, for free!!
2021-05-01T03:24:15 < jadew> yeah, that must be it
2021-05-01T03:27:32 < jadew> if you live 20 km from Fukushima, it's like getting a full body x-ray per year
2021-05-01T03:28:34 < jadew> also, it turns out these kind of accidents have a very long lasting effect on the food supply worldwide
2021-05-01T03:29:53 < jadew> can't wait to get my geiger counter, I want to see how bad the tuna is - I've been eating a lot this past year
2021-05-01T03:30:04 < jadew> and I want to know if I can keep doing so
2021-05-01T03:30:23 < jadew> online articles say bananas are more radioactive then tuna tho
2021-05-01T03:30:27 < jadew> *than
2021-05-01T03:31:34 < kakium69> you need to book a vacation for a month following the accident
2021-05-01T03:32:03 < jadew> also, it turns out the nuclear bomb testing that was done in the past century has contaminated the air quite a lot (at least in that period) - probably contaminated everything tho
2021-05-01T03:32:04 < kakium69> and maybe seal you house before the accident
2021-05-01T03:32:23 < jadew> yeah, you need to stay up to date with the accident schedules tho
2021-05-01T03:33:02 < jadew> in case of nuclear disaster you have to hide behinde as much mass as possible
2021-05-01T03:33:03 < kakium69> after a month wash your house and remove your yard and order new soil
2021-05-01T03:33:58 < kakium69> and dont eat any produce of your yard after that
2021-05-01T03:34:24 < jadew> well, it depends on how radioactive they are
2021-05-01T03:35:32 < kakium69> wind and rain water will tranfer radioactive dust to your yard even if you replace the soil
2021-05-01T03:35:47 < jadew> IIRC thunderfoot has a video in which he eats carrots he grew in radioactive dirt :D
2021-05-01T03:36:05 < jadew> from a radioactive plate (coated with uranium oxide)
2021-05-01T03:36:23 < kakium69> uranium not that dangerous
2021-05-01T03:37:01 < kakium69> carrot doesn't eat uranium and even if you eat uranium your body removes it
2021-05-01T03:37:20 < kakium69> it doesn't stick around
2021-05-01T03:38:16 < kakium69> elements that are used in biological processes are more dangerous
2021-05-01T03:40:38 < kakium69> single dose of uranium probably kills by toxicity before by radiation poisoning?
2021-05-01T03:41:05 < jadew> don't know, depends on how much you eat
2021-05-01T03:41:52 < kakium69> lethal dose
2021-05-01T03:42:04 < kakium69> single lethal dose*
2021-05-01T03:43:22 < jadew> that would be ~5 Sv I think
2021-05-01T03:43:38 < jadew> (would kill you in one to two months)
2021-05-01T03:44:14 < jadew> at fukushima they had leaky spots that dealt 2.2 Sv/h
2021-05-01T03:44:50 < kakium69> LD50 of uranium orally 5g :o
2021-05-01T03:44:53 < jadew> that's 1000 time the background radiation you absorb in a year
2021-05-01T03:45:12 < jadew> what's LD50?
2021-05-01T03:45:23 < jadew> ah
2021-05-01T03:46:01 < jadew> well that's an interesting table: https://whs.rocklinusd.org/documents/Science/Lethal_Dose_Table.pdf'
2021-05-01T03:46:07 < jadew> https://whs.rocklinusd.org/documents/Science/Lethal_Dose_Table.pdf
2021-05-01T03:47:45 < jadew> so if you eat one kg of salt at once, you die
2021-05-01T03:48:53 < kakium69> if you eat one kg of salt at once - you crazy
2021-05-01T03:49:07 < jadew> you could drink it maybe
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2021-05-01T03:49:25 < jadew> that's a very nasty way of killing yourself tho
2021-05-01T03:49:32 < kakium69> even intentionally eating 1kg of salt sounds really hard
2021-05-01T03:49:38 < jadew> yeah
2021-05-01T03:50:52 < jadew> when you reach 50 g, you'll probably start considering continuing with something else
2021-05-01T03:51:39 < jadew> maybe alternate with sugar
2021-05-01T03:52:44 < jadew> better list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose
2021-05-01T03:53:14 < jadew> they killed lots of rats
2021-05-01T03:54:52 < jadew> ah, ionizing radiation is also there
2021-05-01T03:54:55 < jadew> 5 Gy
2021-05-01T03:55:22 < jadew> which I think it's the same as 5 Sv
2021-05-01T03:56:59 < jadew> someone inclined for this, should try to get into the book of records by killing himself with everything on that list
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2021-05-01T04:00:40 < fenugrec> Need suggestions for a text-based .db format, ideally if a thin library can let me easily add columns and do simple SQL-like queries . Text-based because I would like git versioning
2021-05-01T04:01:18 < fenugrec> i.e. something a bit nicer than .ini-style key-value pairs
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2021-05-01T04:01:27 < jadew> json?
2021-05-01T04:01:39 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-05-01T04:01:52 < jadew> but no sql like thing, although, I'm sure you might be able to find something
2021-05-01T04:01:56 < fenugrec> I kinda have reluctance to anything that starts with "js", but yea I guess that's a candidate. Needs a C API though
2021-05-01T04:02:22 < fenugrec> yeah, true sql will a bit overkill for this, and also not text-based
2021-05-01T04:05:41 < jadew> wth.. botox is the most toxic thing on that list
2021-05-01T04:05:51 < fenugrec> it is pretty nasty shit
2021-05-01T04:06:17 < jadew> how come all those people getting botox injections don't die then?
2021-05-01T04:06:26 < jadew> is it not the same thing?
2021-05-01T04:06:48 < fenugrec> very controlled amounts in very specific places
2021-05-01T04:06:57 < jadew> looks like that's what they're using, wow
2021-05-01T04:07:18 < jadew> you only need 80 ng to kill a person
2021-05-01T04:07:23 < kakium69> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/PV_power_plant_cluster_near_Bhadla_%28India%29.png
2021-05-01T04:07:36 < kakium69> some photovoltanics
2021-05-01T04:07:47 < kakium69> *photovoltaics
2021-05-01T04:07:56 < jadew> soon the whole earth will look like that
2021-05-01T04:08:05 < kakium69> nah
2021-05-01T04:08:13 < jadew> we'll need them to charge the tesla batteries, produced by panasonic
2021-05-01T04:12:16 < fenugrec> I guess I'll just CSV, should be processable enough
2021-05-01T04:13:48 < kakium69> jadew: only in profitable conditions cells will cover the land
2021-05-01T04:13:57 < kakium69> PV cells
2021-05-01T04:15:26 < kakium69> price of land, price of PV cells, price of labor, price of electricity during day
2021-05-01T04:18:03 < kakium69> and any handouts from goverments but at the scale of the photo and magnitudes more there it needs to have solid profits
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2021-05-01T04:26:38 < fenugrec> 'q - Run SQL directly on CSV or TSV files', https://harelba.github.io/q
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2021-05-01T06:36:41 < BrainDamage> jadew: there's plenty of stories of people ending up disfigured or dead by shady botox doctors
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2021-05-01T13:49:27 < BrainDamage> looks like i've luked out on side effects, got pfizer yesterday and only got a sore arm
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2021-05-01T14:48:42 < jadew> BrainDamage, second dose?
2021-05-01T14:49:16 < BrainDamage> no, 1st
2021-05-01T14:49:34 < jadew> ah, I didn't have any side effects on that one either
2021-05-01T14:51:03 < jadew> I think the ideal dosage would be in much more doses, but they're only doing two for practicality
2021-05-01T14:51:24 < jadew> which is why the second one is worse (same qty of serum)
2021-05-01T14:51:48 < Xogium> mmhm friend of me had the 2nd dose and he slept like the dead
2021-05-01T14:51:54 < Xogium> for a lot of hours
2021-05-01T14:51:57 < jadew> same here
2021-05-01T14:52:02 < BrainDamage> no, the 2nd dose they tie it to a different virus
2021-05-01T14:52:40 < jadew> ?
2021-05-01T14:53:43 < BrainDamage> both 1st and 2nd dose don't inject you covid, they inject you an adenovirus with genetic material replaced
2021-05-01T14:53:57 < jadew> not for pfizer
2021-05-01T14:54:00 < BrainDamage> and they use different viruses for 1st and 2nd dose
2021-05-01T14:54:13 < Streaker> Soon there will be the first humanzee.
2021-05-01T14:54:33 < jadew> with Pfizer you get ~30 μg of mARN IIRC
2021-05-01T14:54:38 < jadew> and both doses are the same
2021-05-01T14:54:42 < Streaker> due to Astra Zeneca virus and human genome merging.
2021-05-01T14:54:49 < Xogium> scary
2021-05-01T14:54:52 < Xogium> :D
2021-05-01T14:56:01 < Xogium> I had the most horrible shit ever with my laptop 2 days ago and had to ask for help on freaking camera to solve it… Somehow my bios got reset to default while my laptop was in suspend
2021-05-01T14:56:07 < Xogium> don't ask why I don't know but
2021-05-01T14:56:30 < Xogium> when you suspend an uefi system and try to resume with a bios that is configured to boot legacy, needless to say everything goes to hell
2021-05-01T14:57:36 < Xogium> I didn't know legacy boot was the default of that bios… When I received the laptop, it was set to uefi. Never occured to me that uefi wasn't the default
2021-05-01T14:58:18 < PaulFertser> Xogium: probably RTC battery in the laptop went bad
2021-05-01T14:58:25 < Xogium> and then bios went like, invalid partiton table
2021-05-01T14:58:28 < Xogium> oh jeez
2021-05-01T14:59:14 < PaulFertser> Unfortunately, some UEFI vendors might reset the settings when the battery is removed.
2021-05-01T14:59:37 < PaulFertser> They call it "CMOS clear" lol
2021-05-01T14:59:39 < Streaker> does that include passwords?
2021-05-01T14:59:56 < Xogium> you'd think the big li-ion battery would be used to keep power to the bios ram
2021-05-01T15:00:04 < PaulFertser> Streaker: I'd expect it to, yes.
2021-05-01T15:00:16 < PaulFertser> Xogium: nope
2021-05-01T15:00:20 < Xogium> sucks
2021-05-01T15:00:38 < PaulFertser> I've read a datasheet for an Intel PCH recently regarding the topic. It's just insane, fuck intel.
2021-05-01T15:00:59 < Xogium> and of course since it was uefi it never crossed my mind to create ef02 bios boot partition on my disk and store grub in there
2021-05-01T15:01:07 < Xogium> in case it would boot up legacy
2021-05-01T15:02:30 < ventyl> it would still resume... and crash
2021-05-01T15:02:39 < Xogium> but yeah initially it went crazy and did boot loops ever 3 seconds or so, power on, power off
2021-05-01T15:02:45 < ventyl> as PCH in legacy mode probably still initializes SATA controller in ATA emulation mode
2021-05-01T15:02:56 < Xogium> I managed to shut it down for real, then it just didn't want to boot of course
2021-05-01T15:03:24 < Xogium> yeah that's why I don't plan on using suspend ever again
2021-05-01T15:03:44 < ventyl> that's why I have to rebuild every friggin kernel update since 2011
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2021-05-01T15:05:14 < Xogium> in the worst case here, if I power it off it would probably just use grub to boot, should it reset again
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2021-05-01T15:05:24 < Xogium> but I sure wish I knew about this before
2021-05-01T15:06:14 < PaulFertser> So PCH has a special pin to be use as a "reset jumper", and it tracks the state of the pin even while fully turned off. So you can set the jumper, then reset it right away on a powered off board, then you turn it on and UEFI will see a special bit flag raised to signal the jumper was manipulated. However this jumper _must_ be connected to the RTC battery supply, so naturally removing and
2021-05-01T15:06:19 < Xogium> I used the iso of archlinux to boot up and then I ran this command which made me go like, oops ?
2021-05-01T15:06:20 < PaulFertser> installing the battery has the same effect. Apparently that's somehow related to the damn ME state. Fuck Intel.
2021-05-01T15:06:22 < Xogium> efibootmgr -v
2021-05-01T15:06:32 < Xogium> 'EFI variables are not supported on this system.'
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2021-05-01T15:09:13 < PaulFertser> Xogium: if it's indeed the battery issue you should probably plan to arrange its replacement somehow. How old is the laptop?
2021-05-01T15:09:45 < Xogium> so well that was at least a good starting point to find out wtf had gone wrong, I guess. But ugh the stupid ui of that bios ! OCR was just total failure on this so I had to call a friend and it took us well ofer 2 hours to manage
2021-05-01T15:09:53 < ventyl> hm, I got rid of nvidia driver, I could try to use it full EFI
2021-05-01T15:10:22 < Xogium> its quite ancient lol but was all I was able to buy. Its a refurbished dell latitude e6430 so from 2011 or so I think
2021-05-01T15:10:48 < Xogium> but there's no telling what they did when refurbishing it. I know they changed the hard drive and ram, but nothing else of what they did
2021-05-01T15:10:55 < Xogium> they could have changed the cmos battery as well
2021-05-01T15:10:56 < ventyl> 3 years younger than mine :)
2021-05-01T15:11:06 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I was able to solder to a regular cr2032 cell and that is probably good enough for cases like that.
2021-05-01T15:11:10 < Xogium> I have it for the past 2 years
2021-05-01T15:11:53 < PaulFertser> Xogium: btw, how do you pronounce your nick, Zogium?
2021-05-01T15:12:14 < Xogium> lol, I'd tend to pronounce the g like a k
2021-05-01T15:12:50 < Xogium> but its a fantasy name originally. I was playing on a mud and didn't know what name to pick, so the mud offered me a few random names, and well, it stick
2021-05-01T15:13:06 < PaulFertser> :)
2021-05-01T15:13:44 < Xogium> so now I use it basically everywhere
2021-05-01T15:16:27 < Xogium> still this whole thing was a disaster and really stressed me out for 2 days :p
2021-05-01T15:16:39 < Xogium> that's also why I really don't like x86
2021-05-01T15:17:14 < Xogium> I can't even debug bios issues myself because they're still not made accessible. You'd think with uefi they could have, I mean they ported mouse support to bios
2021-05-01T15:18:41 < Xogium> at least on ARM I can debug myself provided I have some other machine to access the uart… And since there's no bios on there I only have to deal with the bootloader
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2021-05-01T15:20:14 < ventyl> mouse support in bios existed back in late '80s
2021-05-01T15:20:35 < Xogium> really ? Well then what did they do with uefi ? :p
2021-05-01T15:20:48 < ventyl> fucked everything up
2021-05-01T15:20:59 < Xogium> I keep hearing that uefi has all that would be needed to make talking bios or at least ones that could handle braille displays
2021-05-01T15:21:16 < Xogium> but of course, not gonna happen
2021-05-01T15:21:55 < ventyl> if intel didn't behave as intel normally behaves, they would simply used openfirmware instead of ripping guts out of it and selling it as something new and innovative
2021-05-01T15:22:03 < Xogium> :p
2021-05-01T15:23:49 < Xogium> I wanted a more powerful machine for building stuff but I'm not sure anymore, tbh
2021-05-01T15:24:12 < ventyl> what kind of stuff do you build?
2021-05-01T15:24:51 < Xogium> this whole thing with my bios bugging on me made me think hard and I feel like x86 just doesn't care about disabled people. At least not for consumers, of course they do for servers and that sort of things because they still have serial ports and all of that could in theory be accessible
2021-05-01T15:24:55 < PaulFertser> Xogium: fwiw, UEFI supports serial consoles, so when you have the source code and a machine with UART exposed it can be used.
2021-05-01T15:25:19 < Xogium> ventyl: lot of buildroot stuff, entire OS like bootloader, kernel and userland
2021-05-01T15:26:02 < ventyl> ok, that may take some time
2021-05-01T15:26:36 < Xogium> yeah, I wanted some ryzen 7 3700x
2021-05-01T15:26:57 < Xogium> but I'm kind of not so sure now
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2021-05-01T17:19:01 < bitmask> heidi ho neighbor
2021-05-01T17:21:43 < Steffann> That's a bingoo!!
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2021-05-01T17:23:45 < bitmask> is there any reason to use electrolytic for anything under like 47uF?
2021-05-01T17:25:57 < bitmask> datasheet says to use ceramic and webench says electrolytic
2021-05-01T17:39:20 < bitmask> what am i doing with my life, i need to start laying out these boards so i can order them
2021-05-01T17:41:33 < kakium69> actual properties of capacitor used matter more
2021-05-01T17:42:48 < bitmask> yea as long as it was a low esr electrolytic it was fine, i'll just use ceramic though
2021-05-01T17:43:34 < kakium69> as long as it has low capacitance derating in intended operating voltages
2021-05-01T17:43:56 < bitmask> oh
2021-05-01T17:43:58 < bitmask> that too
2021-05-01T17:44:13 < bitmask> isnt derating more of a problem with electrolytic than ceramic?
2021-05-01T17:44:25 < kakium69> no
2021-05-01T17:44:30 < bitmask> i know all caps have derating problems but moreso?
2021-05-01T17:44:31 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-05-01T17:44:36 < bitmask> guess i'll have to look
2021-05-01T17:44:47 < kakium69> just pick double the voltage you actually need
2021-05-01T17:45:09 < kakium69> to get to ballpark of the actual size of MLCC
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2021-05-01T17:49:23 < bitmask> mouser blows
2021-05-01T17:52:10 < Steffann> ok
2021-05-01T17:52:34 < Steffann> dont use them then
2021-05-01T17:55:01 < bitmask> let me complain in peace
2021-05-01T17:55:02 < bitmask> :P
2021-05-01T17:55:10 < bitmask> their website just keeps going down
2021-05-01T17:55:25 < kakium69> true
2021-05-01T18:01:55 < kakium69> their system seems heavy
2021-05-01T18:03:14 < Steffann> worksonmymachine.pro
2021-05-01T18:10:14 < bitmask> how do i know what a good voltage ripple going into a switching reg is?  like you have your bridge rectifier and smoothing cap that gives you said voltage ripple, then that goes into the switching regulator's input cap....
2021-05-01T18:12:37 < jpa-> bitmask: SMPS will not care much about the input voltage as long as long as it is within the specified input voltage range
2021-05-01T18:13:11 < bitmask> oh really, I was gonna put like 2x 470-680uF
2021-05-01T18:13:28 < jpa-> so what ripple voltage does that give you?
2021-05-01T18:13:39 < bitmask> 0.6V
2021-05-01T18:13:53 < jpa-> :)
2021-05-01T18:13:58 < bitmask> ?
2021-05-01T18:14:15 < jpa-> must be rather small power
2021-05-01T18:14:19 < bitmask> yes
2021-05-01T18:14:33 < bitmask> i wasnt sure what i was supposed to be aiming for though
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2021-05-01T18:30:31 < bitmask> i have two more questions, first, can someone help me choose values for this? https://i.imgur.com/BjVJXvl.png
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2021-05-01T18:31:51 < BrainDamage> I remember pcs in the 2000 that has mouse in the bios
2021-05-01T18:31:52 < BrainDamage> sp2 made that easy back then
2021-05-01T18:31:52 < BrainDamage> it's usb that complicated stuff again
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2021-05-01T18:37:33 < jpa-> bitmask: what is the highest frequency you want to measure?
2021-05-01T18:37:46 < jpa-> (including any harmonics of square waves)
2021-05-01T18:38:50 < jpa-> (or, what is the response time you want)
2021-05-01T18:40:08 < bitmask> doesnt really matter, very slow is fine, not sure :/
2021-05-01T18:40:57 < jpa-> then e.g. 47kohm and 1µF would give 47ms
2021-05-01T18:41:50 < jpa-> most important is to have the pads for the components, you can always tune values later if you get noise
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2021-05-01T18:43:05 < bitmask> i should really do some reading on filtering
2021-05-01T18:43:19 < bitmask> i dont know what any of this means
2021-05-01T18:43:49 < mouseghost> bitmask, whatcha doin
2021-05-01T18:44:03 < bitmask> filtering a thermocouple sensor
2021-05-01T18:45:10 < bitmask> i mean i kinda have an idea of how it works but not well enough for my liking
2021-05-01T18:45:25 < mouseghost> bitmask, wdym filtering
2021-05-01T18:45:47 < bitmask> low pass filter, the datasheet recommends it for getting rid of RF noise due to long thermocouple leads
2021-05-01T18:46:12 < mouseghost> bitmask, and what is the thing that confuses you
2021-05-01T18:46:20 < mouseghost> also, how long?
2021-05-01T18:46:25 < bitmask> choosing the frequency and whatever
2021-05-01T18:46:33 < bitmask> not sure how long yet
2021-05-01T18:46:40 < bitmask> probably not very
2021-05-01T18:46:49 < bitmask> but still want to have the filter in there since it recommends it
2021-05-01T18:47:30 < mouseghost> isnt like a cap enough?
2021-05-01T18:47:50 < bitmask> they recommend a low pass filter
2021-05-01T18:49:13 < mouseghost> bitmask, can i see ds out of curiosity
2021-05-01T18:49:30 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/ad8494_8495_8496_8497-1502317.pdf
2021-05-01T18:55:57 < mouseghost> >easy to use
2021-05-01T18:57:26 < mouseghost> bitmask, there is some "filter" designs and examples on page 13
2021-05-01T18:58:18 < bitmask> i know i linked a screenshot above
2021-05-01T18:58:38 < mouseghost> ah
2021-05-01T19:00:43 < mouseghost> i mean, its not overtly complicated afaik... but read, read :3 i guess can also ask here
2021-05-01T19:02:21 < mouseghost> i feel like its mainly a question of how often the temperature fluctuates and how often you want to see it
2021-05-01T19:03:48 < bitmask> yea, someoen gave me an idea before you joined, didnt realize you weren't here for that until just now
2021-05-01T19:03:53 < mouseghost> ye
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2021-05-01T20:39:45 < tct> R2COM, can we talk here? or rather keep the ongoing stuff secret from ##stm32? :p
2021-05-01T20:47:33 < mouseghost> a question 
2021-05-01T20:47:38 < mouseghost> freertos or waht
2021-05-01T20:47:42 < mouseghost> or some handmade solution?
2021-05-01T20:51:05 < Steffann> Just keep it secret tct
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2021-05-01T20:52:15 < mouseghost> i guess context switching is done by copying the cpu registers into ram and then replacing them with new ones?
2021-05-01T20:53:05 < R2COM> tct sure you can talk
2021-05-01T20:53:08 < R2COM> what did you want to say
2021-05-01T20:53:41 < tct> R2COM, I was just wondering what motivated you to switch to FreeBSD? As I understood you used Linux before? #freebsd is somewhat strict about OT so didn't want to ask further in there. Just personal interested btw.
2021-05-01T20:55:49 < R2COM> 1. FreeBSD is MIT, i.e. freedom. so if one *maybe* has some plans in future to close source and port he CAN do it with freebsd but cant with linux, so... if one wants to study/learn unix its better to invest into something what *maybe* can be commercioalized without issues
2021-05-01T20:56:31 < R2COM> 2. FreeBSD is quality OS, kernel+all other stuff built by dedicated devs rather than in linux its kernel + some shitty software layers on top of it
2021-05-01T20:56:46 < R2COM> 3. i think linux community is really retarded douchebags
2021-05-01T20:56:52 < zyp> valid argument for BSD vs GPL licenses in general, but I'm not sure it matters much in practice for the kernels
2021-05-01T20:57:26 < tct> R2COM, thank you for sharing your opinion. As a long term FreeBSD user I can tell that we'll welcome you happily :)
2021-05-01T20:57:30 < R2COM> zyp maybe for proper distros like, Debian, Gentoo, RHEL, Slackware, Suse it doesnt matter much
2021-05-01T20:58:23 < zyp> I mean, the main problem with GPL is that you can't link proprietary stuff to it
2021-05-01T20:58:38 < R2COM> right, anything touching GPL must turn into GPL
2021-05-01T20:58:40 < Xogium> for what its worth, my opinion about freebsd is that it doesn't seem to care much about disabled people
2021-05-01T20:58:50 < Xogium> or bsd in general really
2021-05-01T20:58:51 < zyp> you're not gonna be linking proprietary stuff into the kernel anyway, and if you have to you can do like nvidia
2021-05-01T20:58:57 < tct> Xogium, given that it's a Server OS that makes sense :p
2021-05-01T20:59:18 < Xogium> to this day, I still haven't found an installation iso with a screen reader or at least brltty in
2021-05-01T20:59:35 < Xogium> I don't see why that would make sense
2021-05-01T20:59:37 < tct> Xogium, yes, because it's a server OS.
2021-05-01T20:59:44 < Xogium> its not because you're blind you can't do sysadmin
2021-05-01T20:59:51 < zyp> tct, blind people can't have servers?
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2021-05-01T21:00:29 < R2COM> blind people should just install optical eye modules and done
2021-05-01T21:00:37 < Xogium> ...
2021-05-01T21:00:40 < zyp> I think it's more a case of the userbase is so small that nobody is finding it worthwhile to put much time into accessability
2021-05-01T21:00:52 < Xogium> zyp: yeah I know its probably that
2021-05-01T21:01:00 < Xogium> zyp: but still kind of disapointing
2021-05-01T21:01:47 < R2COM> jokes aside but if freebsd foundation gets funded right sure they will handle that stuff
2021-05-01T21:01:55 < R2COM> they are small , its not MS
2021-05-01T21:02:06 < Xogium> I never said it was ms :p
2021-05-01T21:02:13 < R2COM> Linux fouindadtion is even bigger, and plus its funded by big corps
2021-05-01T21:02:31 < R2COM> lol there was some scandal recently about higher level managers of Linux foundation not even using linux, but macs
2021-05-01T21:02:36 < Xogium> but I mean I've been using linux for the past 7 years, and it got a screen reader in kernel since the 1.x serie iirc
2021-05-01T21:03:05 < Xogium> I agree that a kernel screen reader was maybe not the best idea, but at least it worked and still does nowadays
2021-05-01T21:03:07 < R2COM> 7 years ago linux already had more financial bosot from big corps than freebsd
2021-05-01T21:03:49 < R2COM> boost*
2021-05-01T21:04:13 < ventyl> mouseghost: context switcher is rather simple stuff, like, 15 lines of mostly C code with two assembly routines
2021-05-01T21:04:33 < mouseghost> mostly c codes?
2021-05-01T21:04:36 < Xogium> well I'd have liked to give bsd a fair chance
2021-05-01T21:04:38 < mouseghost> also what rouuutines
2021-05-01T21:04:44 < mouseghost> ive seen SVD mentioned somewhere
2021-05-01T21:04:51 < R2COM> its funny how linux sheeple thinking they run it to be independent of devils like MS etc, but lol...the board of directors of Linux foundation is basically people from MS google etc driving their interests, and driving the DEVELOPMENT of linux the way how big corps think it should be
2021-05-01T21:05:02 < R2COM> and faggot Linus Torvalds was getting his salary from big corps too
2021-05-01T21:05:30 < mouseghost> maybe i dont need context switching afterall... eh?
2021-05-01T21:05:44 < Xogium> I mostly run linux because I got used to it, and don't feel like going back to windows :p
2021-05-01T21:05:54 < R2COM> the linux kernel development is made by people *PAID* by MS, google, facebook etc etc
2021-05-01T21:06:35 < R2COM> whereas with FreeBSD, their founding from what I see is mainly from some server/hardware companies who use their OS for own purpose
2021-05-01T21:06:44 < Xogium> I was originally rather forced to use linux, as we were in 2014, my win xp machine was having random crash and stuff all over, I had noone to fix it, plus it was to be killed in less than a year. It was only a 2 gb ram core 2 duo
2021-05-01T21:06:45 < R2COM> so they kinda are interested in keeping FreeBSD alive
2021-05-01T21:07:00 < Xogium> so well, linux it was. And since then I just didn't see any reason to move back
2021-05-01T21:07:01 < ventyl> mouseghost: you probably mean SVC
2021-05-01T21:07:04 < mouseghost> ye...
2021-05-01T21:07:05 < mouseghost> my bad
2021-05-01T21:07:11 < ventyl> that isn't necessary for context switching
2021-05-01T21:07:16 < R2COM> poor example
2021-05-01T21:07:17 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-01T21:07:28 < R2COM> on contrary I can say that I ran XP during all its lifetime on some machines without issues
2021-05-01T21:07:28 < ventyl> and you need context switching only if you want to have several independent stacks
2021-05-01T21:07:37 < R2COM> only 1 issue which caused reinstall...thats it
2021-05-01T21:07:42 < R2COM> on win10 - 0 issue for me ever
2021-05-01T21:07:43 < mouseghost> yeah im wondering if i even need that now...
2021-05-01T21:07:58 < Xogium> well, I couldn't fix it, I had nothing to format with, win xp installation didn't talk
2021-05-01T21:08:06 < mouseghost> though just out of curiosity, what asm routines did you mean? ventyl
2021-05-01T21:08:09 < R2COM> But FreeBSD (unix) is superior in like it allows customization
2021-05-01T21:08:14 < Xogium> and being 100% blind made reformatting impossible even if I wanted to
2021-05-01T21:08:17 < mouseghost> irq enable and disable, then?
2021-05-01T21:09:30 < Xogium> its only in windows 10 that they finally included a screen reader in the installation iso
2021-05-01T21:10:56 < ventyl> mouseghost: https://pastebin.com/QTZ2y950
2021-05-01T21:11:06 < mouseghost> thanks ventyl
2021-05-01T21:11:06 < Xogium> and fun part ? They only did it because the daughter of ms boss is blind
2021-05-01T21:11:27 < ventyl> ^^ that's thread switcher of my RTOS cleaned of RTOS-specific stuff
2021-05-01T21:13:03 < Xogium> but fundamentally, the big issue I see with computers is still the bios. And having it reset to default on me drove home the fact that if this happens again, I'm powerless to fix it on my own
2021-05-01T21:13:16 < Xogium> which makes me rather angry somehow
2021-05-01T21:14:02 < mouseghost> ventyl, some fancy asm() thingie :o
2021-05-01T21:14:05 < mouseghost> with these %0 thing
2021-05-01T21:14:14 < Xogium> no matter the OS I'd use, if this happens again I'm still screwed
2021-05-01T21:14:35 < ventyl> mouseghost: that's actually not fancy, but around a decade old
2021-05-01T21:14:42 < mouseghost> fancy :P
2021-05-01T21:14:47 < mouseghost> almost as old as me probably
2021-05-01T21:14:51 < ventyl> but I was lazy to rewrite it to some more modern look
2021-05-01T21:15:09 < ventyl> the name gas fits gnu assembler quite well
2021-05-01T21:15:47 < mouseghost> it gives [you] gas?
2021-05-01T21:16:23 < ventyl> going through gas sources may have similar effects as light exposure to ypperite
2021-05-01T21:16:44 < ventyl> that syntax, especially in x86 case and if inlined into C is fucking awful
2021-05-01T21:17:33 < mouseghost> ventyl, how come you have multiple %0 in the code? which one is which? is there some order?
2021-05-01T21:17:50 < ventyl> %0 is always the same entity
2021-05-01T21:18:14 < ventyl> %0 tells compiler to choose some available register and use *the very same* register everywhere, where %0 is placed
2021-05-01T21:18:14 < mouseghost> ventyl, then why do you have 3 of ":"?
2021-05-01T21:18:21 < mouseghost> oh
2021-05-01T21:18:27 < mouseghost> o-o
2021-05-01T21:18:56 < ventyl> : separates actual assembly from output specification, input specification and clobber specification
2021-05-01T21:19:02 < mouseghost> oh..
2021-05-01T21:19:11 < mouseghost> i thought it was like printf for a moment
2021-05-01T21:19:37 < mouseghost> aha now found manual
2021-05-01T21:19:39 < ventyl> one "neat" feature of this is, that %0 ... %9 are positional arguments, ofc. so if you add new output, you have to renumber all inputs :>
2021-05-01T21:20:15 < mouseghost> nice :P
2021-05-01T21:20:25 < ventyl> sooo, GNU people added mode, where you can name your arguments, but it is something like %[name], which then looks weird if combined with indirection and stuff
2021-05-01T21:20:34 < mouseghost> certainly there is no characters like > or < on the keyboard
2021-05-01T21:21:28 < ventyl> if you googled a lot, you would find this chunk of assembly even in ARM docs
2021-05-01T21:21:46 < mouseghost> ventyl, you are that popular or you copy-pasted it?
2021-05-01T21:22:02 < ventyl> in less fancy package and with a lot of generally useless alternatives
2021-05-01T21:22:27 < ventyl> i understood the general idea out of stuff available online and then crafted this shit together
2021-05-01T21:22:48 < mouseghost> i see
2021-05-01T21:23:21 < ventyl> because I wanted MPU support and that is considered only very rarely
2021-05-01T21:23:34 < mouseghost> i mean, it is pretty smart in general
2021-05-01T21:23:51 < mouseghost> these multiple load instructions
2021-05-01T21:24:54 < ventyl> if you wrote it load by load, compiler would probably optimize it to multiple load anyway
2021-05-01T21:25:04 < ventyl> if the order in original code was correct
2021-05-01T21:25:10 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-01T21:25:48 < mouseghost> and what does =r mean .w.
2021-05-01T21:26:04 < ventyl> but order doesn't really matter as long as you restore them in inverse order of storage
2021-05-01T21:26:10 < mouseghost> aaa
2021-05-01T21:26:13 < Laurenceb> https://encyclopediadramatica.wiki/images/thumb/3/36/Trolley.jpeg/518px-Trolley.jpeg
2021-05-01T21:26:25 < ventyl> =r means, that register allocated at that slot should only be used as input
2021-05-01T21:26:48 < ventyl> otherwise it can be used as input and once that particular input is not used anymore, it can be used also as output
2021-05-01T21:26:53 < ventyl> sometimes, you simply don't want that
2021-05-01T21:28:01 < mouseghost> ventyl, so the register "r" points to some memory, and then the reg. gets incremented, as i understand?
2021-05-01T21:28:17 < ventyl> nope
2021-05-01T21:28:24 < mouseghost> ;_;
2021-05-01T21:28:39 < ventyl> "r" tells it, that argument at that position shall be register
2021-05-01T21:28:49 < mouseghost> yeah yeah, in general, yeah
2021-05-01T21:28:52 < mouseghost> but i moved onto another topic :D
2021-05-01T21:29:08 < mouseghost> why are your addressing modes so weird hm
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2021-05-01T21:29:28 < ventyl> the fact, that in (), there is memory reference, causes that GCC will generate preamble where that memory location is loaded in register, which GCC/GAS chose to be %0
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2021-05-01T21:29:41 < ventyl> the fact, that in (), there is memory reference, causes that GCC will generate preamble where that memory location is loaded in register, which GCC/GAS chose to be %0
2021-05-01T21:29:49 < mouseghost> oops removed myself from here mistankely >~>
2021-05-01T21:30:07 < mouseghost> ah i see
2021-05-01T21:30:10 < mouseghost> smart
2021-05-01T21:30:32 < ventyl> there is nothing weird there
2021-05-01T21:30:59 < mouseghost> thanks meow
2021-05-01T21:35:00 < ventyl> np
2021-05-01T21:39:41 < ventyl> essentially, before scheduling pend_sv interrupt, you need to configure old_task and new_task variables, which should contain pointers to tops of stacks of incoming and outgoing thread
2021-05-01T21:39:57 < ventyl> how you do that is up to you
2021-05-01T21:42:12 < mouseghost> i mean, i dont tend to reuse code like that, but thanks :3
2021-05-01T21:43:28 < ventyl> that's just to make all the other variables, which I left there, useless in this example. they are there just because the original code is more complicated than that
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2021-05-01T21:44:46 < mouseghost> i got the basic idea of moving the registers around :3
2021-05-01T21:49:09 < ventyl> then you can write the rest of it. which is like, 100x more lines of code
2021-05-01T21:50:52 < mouseghost> ill try to avoid that and do interrupts in the end hah :D
2021-05-01T21:50:57 < mouseghost> i feel like this should be enough
2021-05-01T21:52:01 < ventyl> this would be a overkill, if you don't have a lot of concurrency and you don't need preemption
2021-05-01T21:52:07 < R2COM> brb
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2021-05-01T21:53:01 < mouseghost> yeah i guess..
2021-05-01T21:53:40 < mouseghost> interrupt driven programming
2021-05-01T21:54:59 < ventyl> awful, but... if it works, the nobody will ask
2021-05-01T21:55:35 < mouseghost> ventyl, why awful? what else do you propose?
2021-05-01T21:55:47 < ventyl> RTOS
2021-05-01T21:56:49 < qyx> a loop in the main()
2021-05-01T21:58:36 < mouseghost> ventyl, where is the border then?
2021-05-01T21:59:15 < ventyl> mouseghost: IMHO the border is more like being defined by the HW rather by the SW. any STM32 you can buy today has enough oomph to run fully blown RTOS and do something useful
2021-05-01T21:59:41 < mouseghost> can, but do i need that..?
2021-05-01T21:59:45 < mouseghost> thats the question hmm
2021-05-01T22:00:14 < ventyl> you don't have to do awful things then
2021-05-01T22:00:55 < mouseghost> on the other hand, is that doing something awful?
2021-05-01T22:01:02 < mouseghost> ie interrupt driven..
2021-05-01T22:01:30 < mouseghost> i mean, it could pose some problems when i would want user interaction AND the device would currently transmit/receive
2021-05-01T22:01:31 < mouseghost> buuut
2021-05-01T22:03:36 < ventyl> you then end up in 
2021-05-01T22:04:06 < ventyl> oh shit oh shit moment, once you cross the boundaries of things possible in current interrupt entaglement without dropping full rewrite
2021-05-01T22:04:30 < mouseghost> :/
2021-05-01T22:05:16 < mouseghost> so with rtos, you usually you create a thread from interrupt handler?
2021-05-01T22:05:48 < ventyl> no, with rtos you usually notify some thread
2021-05-01T22:06:04 < ventyl> creating a thread is quite expensive operation and you don't want to be doing that from ISR
2021-05-01T22:06:26 < mouseghost> ah
2021-05-01T22:07:20 < mouseghost> so i wait for this notification in the thread and then send the notif. from the isr hm
2021-05-01T22:07:33 < mouseghost> and the kernel takes care of interleaving the processes
2021-05-01T22:07:35 < ventyl> you can simulate that arrangement without RTOS by one big loop, possibly synchronized to some timer and ISRs setting some variables
2021-05-01T22:07:47 < ventyl> you then check if variable was set while you loop through the loop
2021-05-01T22:07:49 < mouseghost> mhm yeah i see
2021-05-01T22:08:39 < ventyl> but big loop is mostly only cooperative, so if one entry in loop jams itself for whatever reason, everything is jammed
2021-05-01T22:11:05 < mouseghost> i guess i can fit it in the memory... hm
2021-05-01T22:11:08 < mouseghost> thanks for talking me into this ;p
2021-05-01T22:12:10 < ventyl> aaactually, extremely hardcore realtime stuff tends to use big loop approach with precise time synchronization
2021-05-01T22:12:22 < ventyl> as you want to have some guarrantees on timing jitter
2021-05-01T22:12:39 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-01T22:13:08 < mouseghost> or do that...
2021-05-01T22:14:00 < mouseghost> am conflicted :D
2021-05-01T22:14:25 < mouseghost> ill do the abstractions and then care about the thingms
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--- Day changed Sun May 02 2021
2021-05-02T00:02:52 < mawk> A laser is placed at the point (3,5). The laser beam travels in a straight line. Larry wants the beam to hit and bounce off the y-axis, then hit and bounce off the x-axis, then hit the point (7,5). What is the total distance the beam will travel along this path?
2021-05-02T00:05:50 < englishman> Larry is fired for wasting time in the laser room
2021-05-02T00:12:44 < mawk> :(
2021-05-02T00:16:28 < Steffanx> How many Larrys did you get to fire englishman 
2021-05-02T00:20:46 < englishman> it would be Laurent here
2021-05-02T00:20:49 < specing> lmao
2021-05-02T00:20:58 < specing> Laurenceb: ^
2021-05-02T00:23:32 < specing> mawk: sqrt(3^2 + 3^2) + sqrt(2^2 + 2^2) + sqrt(5^2+5^2) = (3+2+5)sqrt(2) = 14.blablabla
2021-05-02T00:24:07 < mawk> yes specing 
2021-05-02T00:24:20 < mawk> how did you do it?
2021-05-02T00:24:52 < specing> minus 1: (3,5) -> (0,2) -> (2,0) -> (7,5)
2021-05-02T00:25:03 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-02T00:25:07 < mawk> but how did you find tht path?
2021-05-02T00:25:08 < specing> luckily it was under 45 deg and it worked
2021-05-02T00:25:10 < mawk> by trying?
2021-05-02T00:25:12 < mawk> ah
2021-05-02T00:25:13 < specing> it was obvious
2021-05-02T00:25:24 < mawk> lol
2021-05-02T00:25:39 < mawk> yeah that was the angle I tried as well
2021-05-02T00:26:00 < mawk> like bouncing off (0; 2.5) would be too high, so slightly below and voilà
2021-05-02T00:26:02 < specing> find something like this that has a non-pretty angle
2021-05-02T00:28:16 < mawk> alright
2021-05-02T00:32:27 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsTgptGbe-w
2021-05-02T00:32:54 < Steffanx> So mawk. Same start and end point, but it should bounch 3 times. How long is the shortest path?
2021-05-02T00:33:32 < Steffanx> Or maybe at least 3 times and also hit y and x.
2021-05-02T00:33:35 < Steffanx> Idk
2021-05-02T00:33:36 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-05-02T00:35:13 < mawk> no Steffanx 
2021-05-02T00:35:17 < mawk> it's not same start and end
2021-05-02T00:35:21 < ventyl> mawk: you could probably unfold that space first along X axis, then along Y axis
2021-05-02T00:35:26 < mawk> (3; 5) and (7; 5)
2021-05-02T00:35:43 < Steffanx> I meant the same start and endpoint as in your "riddle"
2021-05-02T00:35:52 < mawk> a
2021-05-02T00:35:56 < ventyl> and draw straight line. coordinates at which line crosses X and Y (or their unfolded images) are corrdinates you need aim at
2021-05-02T00:36:42 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-02T00:37:00 < mawk> what I did is just trace the journey of the light from the left point to the right point, keeping track of the heigh
2021-05-02T00:37:22 < mawk> with two variables, the slope of the light, and the point on x-axis on which it will bounce
2021-05-02T00:38:08 < ventyl> hm no, that wouldn't work
2021-05-02T00:38:29 < ventyl> but hey, it is 20 minutes to saturday midnight. i am legally allowed to be dumb
2021-05-02T00:38:41 < Steffanx> Youre slow mawk
2021-05-02T00:40:28 < mawk> I'm not trying yours Steffanx 
2021-05-02T00:40:31 < mawk> I'm trying the generic one first
2021-05-02T00:40:40 < mawk> mine but with not (3; 5) and (7; 5)
2021-05-02T00:40:48 < mawk> instead (xa; ya) and (xb; yb)
2021-05-02T00:40:55 < mawk> so the intuition of specing cannot work
2021-05-02T00:41:01 < mawk> and he has to do the calculationzz
2021-05-02T00:41:02 < Steffanx> Soon we'll add refractive index with different values at the y and x axis.
2021-05-02T00:41:32 < mawk> yes
2021-05-02T00:41:38 < mawk> good idea
2021-05-02T00:41:45 < mawk> try it ventyl 
2021-05-02T00:41:50 < mawk> harder than that
2021-05-02T00:42:42 < Steffanx> And then add a few dielectric mirrors and have fun with different wave lenghts
2021-05-02T00:42:45 < specing> mawk: it works lol
2021-05-02T00:42:58 < specing> I just imagined the thing and there comes the result
2021-05-02T00:43:03 < mawk> lol
2021-05-02T00:43:09 < mawk> I mean it won't work with the generic problem
2021-05-02T00:43:21 < specing> yes
2021-05-02T00:44:13 < kakium69> the heck
2021-05-02T00:44:19 < kakium69> youtube shows me ads
2021-05-02T00:44:20 < Steffanx> Youve got to work with real world problems mawk
2021-05-02T00:44:29 < mawk> Steffanx :(
2021-05-02T00:45:08 < Steffanx> Sure it wasn't pornhub you opened kakium69 ?
2021-05-02T00:45:11 < ventyl> mawk: i served three years at automotive. i am completely dumb now.
2021-05-02T00:45:18 < kakium69> ah ublock has crashed or something
2021-05-02T00:45:28 < Steffanx> Why so early today, kakium69 . Night shift isnt there yet
2021-05-02T00:45:54 < kakium69> to show you a beautiful engine
2021-05-02T00:45:57 < kakium69> link above
2021-05-02T00:46:49 < Steffanx> I feel indifferent when I watch that, 
2021-05-02T00:47:17 < mawk> ok I found it specing 
2021-05-02T00:47:23 < mawk> find the slope of the laser ray
2021-05-02T00:47:39 < mawk> such that it bounces like it should for (xa; xb) and (ya; yb)
2021-05-02T00:47:46 < mawk> assuming xa < xb and so on
2021-05-02T00:48:01 < specing> why those assumptions :P
2021-05-02T00:48:06 < mawk> :( I don't know
2021-05-02T00:48:11 < mawk> maybe the assumption isn't needed
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2021-05-02T00:48:31 < mawk> find the slope, and maybe the point on the x-axis on which it bounces
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2021-05-02T00:49:23 < kakium69> I watched television today
2021-05-02T00:49:33 < Steffanx> Oh dear
2021-05-02T00:49:34 < kakium69> totally crap
2021-05-02T00:49:56 < kakium69> one program has like 4 ad breaks
2021-05-02T00:50:06 < kakium69> and each one is like 10minutes
2021-05-02T00:50:11 < mawk> the slope is the funniest specing 
2021-05-02T00:50:14 < mawk> highly recommended
2021-05-02T00:50:17 < Steffanx> Mawk, I hate it when mathers go "lets assume" and then dont explain where this assumption comes from
2021-05-02T00:50:33 < specing> mawk: are you taunting me :D
2021-05-02T00:50:39 < mawk> :((
2021-05-02T00:50:44 < mawk> not at all
2021-05-02T00:50:52 < mawk> it actually has an elegant expression
2021-05-02T00:51:01 < mawk> which assumption Steffanx ?
2021-05-02T00:51:16 < Steffanx> Any assumption.
2021-05-02T00:51:28 < Steffanx> And you uses the magic word
2021-05-02T00:51:31 < Steffanx> Used
2021-05-02T00:51:38 < mawk> well here xa < xb comes from the fact in the specific example we had points (3; 5) and (7; 5), so I wanted to keep one point left of the other, that's all
2021-05-02T00:52:52 < specing> mawk: the assumption should be on which side of the diagonal they are, as that's going to decide which axis the ray hits first
2021-05-02T00:52:56 < Steffanx> Heh kakium69 . Sometimes I have the tv on and see a nice movie. Te
2021-05-02T00:53:07 < Steffanx> The first commercial break is when I stop
2021-05-02T00:53:23 < mawk> the first axis is the y-axis specing 
2021-05-02T00:53:33 < mawk> so the points should be arranged so that it's like that
2021-05-02T00:53:38 < specing> mawk: ok
2021-05-02T00:53:39 < mawk> I'm not sure which assumptions are needed for that
2021-05-02T00:53:52 < Steffanx> None
2021-05-02T00:56:03 < kakium69> Steffanx: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3666024/
2021-05-02T00:56:10 < kakium69> animu for you
2021-05-02T00:58:34 < kakium69> I watched it for few moments from television
2021-05-02T01:00:26 < kakium69> seemed like premium quality
2021-05-02T01:00:34 < Steffanx> Not sure
2021-05-02T01:43:41 < bitmask> is there anyway to add hysteresis to comparators using a chain of resistors for voltage references?
2021-05-02T01:53:20 < kakium69> just add feedback
2021-05-02T01:54:26 < kakium69> what kind of hysteresis you need?
2021-05-02T01:55:00 < bitmask> wont that affect the voltages on the "ladder" though
2021-05-02T01:55:31 < bitmask> im not sure if its necessary, just thought it might cause flickering without it
2021-05-02T01:55:50 < kakium69> I don't know what you doin
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2021-05-02T02:01:25 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/BvJqnbM
2021-05-02T02:01:44 < bitmask> triggering the top one raises the voltage level of the bottom one
2021-05-02T02:06:04 < aandrew> well yes, you're injecting a bit of voltage from the output to achieve the hysteresis. the only thing you can maybe do is isolate each part of the chain so the effects of one won't impact the ohters
2021-05-02T02:06:33 < bitmask> yea thats the only thing i could think of, was hoping there was another way 
2021-05-02T02:06:50 < aandrew> nothing's coming to me anyway
2021-05-02T02:07:07 < aandrew> maybe ask karlp he's a pretty savvy analogue kind of guy
2021-05-02T02:07:26 < bitmask> maybe i'll just try it without hysteresis and see how it behaves
2021-05-02T02:31:01 < kakium69> have you heard of buffers?
2021-05-02T02:34:28 < kakium69> it's the simplest op amp circuit
2021-05-02T02:34:50 < kakium69> it requires no components beside the op amp
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2021-05-02T03:15:07 < bitmask> kakium69 what do i need a buffer for
2021-05-02T03:15:24 < bitmask> oh
2021-05-02T03:15:58 < bitmask> i see what you mean, adding buffers, thought you meant reconfiguring
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2021-05-02T03:24:55 < kakium69> oh wow
2021-05-02T03:24:57 < kakium69> bs
2021-05-02T03:25:04 < kakium69> bsod
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2021-05-02T03:36:37 < bitmask> fail
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2021-05-02T03:49:26 < kakium69> page corruption
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2021-05-02T13:09:05 < t4nk_fn> Steffanx, you ever used aliexpress saver shipping to the netherlands? and if so, how did it differ from standard shipping? I'm wondering if it's tracked end-to-end like standard.. and if it's sent through postnl or not
2021-05-02T13:09:27 < t4nk_fn> or mawk, perhaps any experience?
2021-05-02T13:11:34 < t4nk_fn> got a few packages at Liege line haul... since 24th, 25th and 29th of april. occasionally packages stay at liege for an ungodly long time, but with this saver shipping it seems like a trend
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2021-05-02T13:44:12 < Steffanx> No clue t4nk_freenode 
2021-05-02T13:53:05 < englishman> so you didn't like the kittens Steffanx?
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2021-05-02T15:32:04 < Steffanx> What where? englishman 
2021-05-02T15:32:19 < englishman> on the gram
2021-05-02T15:32:39 < englishman> I even highlighted you
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2021-05-02T16:57:46 < Laurenceb> sneed
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2021-05-02T18:16:08 < englishman> https://github.com/dekuNukem/pimp_my_microwave
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2021-05-02T18:57:34 < fenugrec> englishman, 8/10 would cook. 
2021-05-02T18:58:22 < englishman> fenugrec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYpAawtU8d4
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2021-05-02T19:07:39 < fenugrec> wow
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2021-05-02T19:21:01 < fenugrec> englishman, doing research for your MBA specialized in fastfood chains ?
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2021-05-02T21:38:20 < englishman> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23-k5Mfx570
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2021-05-02T22:15:15 < ventyl> reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6epzmRZk6UU
2021-05-02T22:37:42 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mub7WV0ZJ4E movie musics
2021-05-02T22:39:05 < kakium69> how is jubs englishman?
2021-05-02T22:39:25 < englishman> very good
2021-05-02T22:39:29 < englishman> how are you?
2021-05-02T22:39:53 < kakium69> good
2021-05-02T22:40:23 < kakium69> any innovations at jubb?
2021-05-02T22:40:36 < englishman> a little bit
2021-05-02T22:41:26 < kakium69> any challenges?
2021-05-02T22:41:37 < englishman> plenty
2021-05-02T22:43:22 < kakium69> how is your ranch?
2021-05-02T22:43:33 < englishman> we will have some ducks this year
2021-05-02T22:43:39 < kakium69> how many?
2021-05-02T22:43:52 < englishman> idk wifeishman is dealing with that
2021-05-02T22:44:10 < kakium69> cool
2021-05-02T22:44:27 < englishman> the kitten crop is already showing yields though https://i.imgur.com/pt7gk1o.jpg
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2021-05-02T22:45:14 < englishman> https://i.imgur.com/thlpigO.jpg
2021-05-02T22:46:46 < kakium69> cute
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2021-05-02T22:47:42 < kakium69> you have summer now?
2021-05-02T22:47:58 < englishman> almost
2021-05-02T22:48:10 < englishman> things are growing but it's still pretty cold and windy
2021-05-02T22:48:24 < englishman> still it is early for the region
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2021-05-02T22:49:42 < englishman> april 22 https://i.imgur.com/kggPX46.jpg
2021-05-02T22:55:28 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-02T22:55:45 < kakium69> our weathers are still synced
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2021-05-02T23:03:12 < Steffanx> time for more random music kakium69? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0vT-ERKSFs
2021-05-02T23:04:13 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-02T23:06:01 < kakium69> dutch
2021-05-02T23:06:36 < mawk> ditch dutch 
2021-05-02T23:07:29 < kakium69> Steffanx: any other songs from them?
2021-05-02T23:09:48 < Steffanx> you might know this one kakium69 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iK5e76auJA
2021-05-02T23:10:38 < Steffanx> especially around 0:55 
2021-05-02T23:10:56 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-02T23:11:36 < Steffanx> but i bet thats because of this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6U1tU7rt1c
2021-05-02T23:12:41 < kakium69> that must be Scooter - Weekend! ?
2021-05-02T23:13:08 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-02T23:13:23 < mawk> no t4nk_fn I never took that shipping method
2021-05-02T23:13:31 < Steffanx> me neither i think
2021-05-02T23:13:33 < mawk> so specing have you found the answer?
2021-05-02T23:13:36 < mawk> it was pretty
2021-05-02T23:13:59 < mawk> if the two points are (xa; ya) and (xb; yb) then the slope of the laser ray is (ya+yb)/(xa+xb)
2021-05-02T23:14:15 < mawk> you can plug in for (3; 5) and (7; 5) and you will find p = 1
2021-05-02T23:17:53 < Steffanx> im disappointed you didnt find the answer for my improved edition mawk
2021-05-02T23:22:13 < kakium69> englishman: how is flying? any good flying weather latelly?
2021-05-02T23:22:51 < englishman> yes went flying this week, saw a moose
2021-05-02T23:23:12 < englishman> one non-windy day in 8 weeks
2021-05-02T23:24:35 < Steffanx> Did you stop with your piloting kakium69?
2021-05-02T23:24:41 < kakium69> kinda
2021-05-02T23:24:45 < specing> mawk: I was looking at it but then fell asleep
2021-05-02T23:25:39 < Steffanx> so what are you up to kakium69? its not farming season yet, i think?
2021-05-02T23:25:55 < kakium69> not much
2021-05-02T23:26:02 < kakium69> chillin
2021-05-02T23:26:33 < Steffanx> ah chilling can be nice
2021-05-02T23:26:56 < Steffanx> unless its because of lack of motivation to do something else
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--- Day changed Mon May 03 2021
2021-05-03T00:10:37 < fenugrec> englishman, your musics remind me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x64p_plXHKc
2021-05-03T00:15:16 < englishman> wow that was great ty
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2021-05-03T03:22:35 < mawk> specing: :'(
2021-05-03T03:22:39 < mawk> ah I forgot Steffanx 
2021-05-03T03:22:42 < mawk> give it again
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2021-05-03T04:31:17 < R2COM> https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/misleading-driver-install-documentation-in-regards-to-linux-compatibility-support/61235/6
2021-05-03T04:31:18 < R2COM> ^
2021-05-03T04:31:21 < R2COM> this thread is epic
2021-05-03T04:33:27 < aandrew> I thought it was spelled epyc
2021-05-03T04:40:33 < R2COM> so the only browser I can get on all machines reliably is firefox
2021-05-03T04:40:39 < R2COM> even though brave is "OK" for win10
2021-05-03T04:40:53 < R2COM> at that point, if i wanna share bookmarks id rather just use firefox everywhere
2021-05-03T04:41:01 < R2COM> (until better altenrative arrives)
2021-05-03T04:41:40 < R2COM> i wonder with firefox's "sync" feature, does it only sync bookmarks or shares passwords too and passes them somehow through own system
2021-05-03T04:42:06 < R2COM> although I tend not to save anything other than forum passwords but still wonder how it works
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2021-05-03T05:41:31 < R2COM> hmm
2021-05-03T05:41:49 < R2COM> anyone ever managed to build for stm32 with clang
2021-05-03T05:42:10 < R2COM> would that even work
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2021-05-03T09:06:11 < zyp> probably should
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2021-05-03T10:12:31 < mawk> chrome works everywhere 
2021-05-03T10:12:37 < mawk> except on arm
2021-05-03T10:12:46 < mawk> then it's chromium
2021-05-03T10:12:55 < mawk> unless the arm is a chromebook or android
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2021-05-03T10:29:37 < hkl0> is it normal that a gps' pps drifts 0.1ms every 6 or 7 pulses?
2021-05-03T10:30:52 < hkl0> I was noticing some drift on device's clock and started measuring the time between pps pulses and it's always 1000ms barring sometimes it goes 999ms 
2021-05-03T10:34:14 < zyp> what's your measurement resolution? ms?
2021-05-03T10:34:50 < zyp> and what's your reference?
2021-05-03T10:35:48 < hkl0> it should be us
2021-05-03T10:36:04 < PaulFertser> iirc when we were measuring PPS with a good reference osc we saw some periodic drift too, on the order 100 ns probably.
2021-05-03T10:36:30 < hkl0> yeah I don't have much for reference other than on chibios wait ofor pad event and measure "time" there
2021-05-03T10:36:42 < hkl0> weird is it's very consistent
2021-05-03T10:36:50 < PaulFertser> The internal GNSS receiver clock is being constantly tweaked to be sync with the sats.
2021-05-03T10:36:55 < zyp> I think your measurement is just bad :)
2021-05-03T10:37:04 < hkl0> I was also expecting some drift but not at this scale 
2021-05-03T10:37:15 < hkl0> yeah I'll try with an osc when I get to office
2021-05-03T10:37:24 < PaulFertser> hkl0: do you mean it's still 1000 ms _on average_ ? And you just get sometimes a little bit more and sometimes a little bit less?
2021-05-03T10:37:43 < PaulFertser> hkl0: in other words, is it really drifting away or just a bit of drifting around?
2021-05-03T10:38:05 < hkl0> away. That's my problem the drift average never nears zero, it's always 0.1ms
2021-05-03T10:38:10 < zyp> are you sure it's not just a rounding error? 999.9999 is 999 if you cast it to int
2021-05-03T10:38:32 < qyx> hkl0: as zyp says
2021-05-03T10:38:39 < hkl0> yeah I'll have to dig in to the resolution a bit better, didn't remember that
2021-05-03T10:39:40 < zyp> if your reference is running slightly slow and you're counting ticks per pulse, it's natural that you'll count one tick less occasionally
2021-05-03T10:41:13 < qyx> i used 1pps on quacktel L70 and ublox max8, they are stable sufficiently to within a single timer step
2021-05-03T10:41:52 < qyx> the timer run at 60 MHz
2021-05-03T10:42:50 < hkl0> makes sense. But how do I acount for that? I see on my rtc that it starts drifting by 0.1ms every once in while until there's a difference of 1s with gps time
2021-05-03T10:43:07 < hkl0> should I just "reset" the rtc to the gps time and move on?
2021-05-03T10:44:17 < Xogium> well rtc drift, that's to be expected afaik
2021-05-03T10:44:46 < Xogium> I mean, every clock has a drift at one pointdon't they ?
2021-05-03T10:45:01 < zyp> IIRC there are tuning registers for HSE
2021-05-03T10:45:12 < zyp> or was it the rtc, idk
2021-05-03T10:45:15 < PaulFertser> hkl0: I'd say if you're constantly monitoring the drift once it becomes like 50 ms you can stop the RTC clock, add a second, wait for the next PPS, start the clock and that should be it.
2021-05-03T10:45:35 < PaulFertser> Would be much easier than constantly trying to retune LSE
2021-05-03T10:45:53 < zyp> ah, duh, LSE*
2021-05-03T10:46:14 < zyp> I'd say it depends on what you do with the time
2021-05-03T10:46:31 < hkl0> PaulFertser; wouldn't that affect other things using rtc?
2021-05-03T10:46:32 < PaulFertser> Indeed, but RTC is just to count seconds
2021-05-03T10:46:34 < qyx> theres a functionality for that
2021-05-03T10:46:49 < zyp> if it's only for display, it doesn't really matter much if you add or subtract a second now and then
2021-05-03T10:46:53 < PaulFertser> hkl0: what other things are you using?
2021-05-03T10:46:58 < qyx> you can skip or add rtc pulses
2021-05-03T10:47:06 < qyx> you have to setmyour prescallers accordingly
2021-05-03T10:47:13 < qyx> to run at subsecond precision
2021-05-03T10:47:19 < hkl0> I'm experimenting with ptp and clock synchronization from a gps source
2021-05-03T10:47:45 < qyx> vctcxo is the way
2021-05-03T10:48:14 < qyx> or rtc with no prescalers with a tcxo used as LSE
2021-05-03T10:48:36 < qyx> you can easily get 1 tick precision
2021-05-03T10:49:30 < qyx> for better precision run  fullspeed timer with input capture connected to the 1pps signal
2021-05-03T10:49:49 < qyx> the whole mcu is fed from vctcxo
2021-05-03T10:50:01 < qyx> and steer it with a 12 bit internal DAC
2021-05-03T10:50:39 < qyx> use two cascaded PIDs, for pjase and frequency
2021-05-03T10:50:40 < hkl0> that's a lot : )
2021-05-03T10:50:43 < qyx> *phase
2021-05-03T10:50:46 < hkl0> I'll have to a do a lot of reading then
2021-05-03T10:52:13 < hkl0> I think another way to be to set the RTC everytime I get a pps pulse
2021-05-03T10:52:19 < hkl0> would be*
2021-05-03T10:52:32 < hkl0> with the gps time
2021-05-03T10:54:09 < ventyl> if your drift really is within orders of us, you may introduce larger margin of drift by fiddling with it all the time
2021-05-03T10:54:58 < mawk> hkl0: you use the wait() to wait exactly 1000ms and then measure the interval using gps?
2021-05-03T10:55:03 < mawk> or something like that
2021-05-03T10:55:27 < hkl0> no I wait for the rising event on a gpio where pps is connected to
2021-05-03T10:55:46 < mawk> ah
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2021-05-03T11:34:07 < ventyl> hm, can pend_sv_handler schedule pend_sv?
2021-05-03T11:45:04 < zyp> I don't see why not
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2021-05-03T11:51:05 < jpa-> ventyl: yes, assuming you set PENDSVCLR at the start of interrupt and not at the end
2021-05-03T11:54:26 < zyp> assuming you even bother clearing it before setting it again :)
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2021-05-03T12:12:21 < ventyl> jpa-: I don't want to nest them, I want to chain them
2021-05-03T12:15:27 < zyp> nesting would be impossible anyway
2021-05-03T12:16:14 < ventyl> if you fooled NIVC, that ISR is done, then it probably would
2021-05-03T12:16:25 < ventyl> but IDK how complicated that is
2021-05-03T12:16:38 < ventyl> still of limited /if any/ usability
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2021-05-03T12:45:18 < karlp> aandrew: (and others) I wouldn't generally consider me an analog savvy guy _at all_, you're presumably thinking of someone else :)
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2021-05-03T12:46:46 < karlp> the one with the imperfect neural processing unit is rather sharp.  even the romanian gigggahurz person, one of the "Peter"s.... the finnish one that doesn't (seem to) be a petrol head?
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2021-05-03T13:07:09 < zyp> ventyl, as far as I know the only way to tell the NVIC that an ISR is done is to return from it
2021-05-03T13:07:22 < zyp> and when you do I'd say it's truly done, so you're not really fooling it
2021-05-03T13:10:22 < ventyl> it turns out that problem I am trying to solve might not actually exist if I simplify another piece of code
2021-05-03T13:39:10 < karlp> ok, the partiboi69 was neat, whoever that was.
2021-05-03T13:55:12 < zyp> the what?
2021-05-03T13:56:35 < karlp> 8:38:20*   englishman | musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23-k5Mfx570
2021-05-03T13:56:36 < karlp> that
2021-05-03T13:56:52 < zyp> ah
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2021-05-03T14:36:45 < danst> how to program STM32F722RET6
2021-05-03T14:37:07 < effractur> stlink and go
2021-05-03T14:37:40 < danst> what is the wiring
2021-05-03T14:37:46 < effractur> see datasheet
2021-05-03T14:38:23 < danst> would wiring depend on dead bootloader? Like with atmega when you cannot flash through serial without bootloader
2021-05-03T14:38:42 < effractur> it depens how you want to flash it eys
2021-05-03T14:38:46 < effractur> but that is all in the datasheet
2021-05-03T14:39:33 < effractur> https://www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00164549-getting-started-with-stm32f7-series-mcu-hardware-development-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-05-03T14:40:17 < danst> I took this it from flight controller, and on pcb USB header pins go straight into the stm32 chip. So when I connect to pc it cannot read usb descriptor, but previously was acting like a serial port device
2021-05-03T14:41:03 < danst> may I ask you to predict which flashing way I should follow based on this story?
2021-05-03T14:41:21 < effractur> well could be that is is actually locked
2021-05-03T14:41:35 < effractur> but just hook up the debugger as stated in that doc
2021-05-03T14:41:42 < effractur> and try both boot pin configurations
2021-05-03T14:42:04 < danst> probably not locked, it uses opensource firmware publicly available and very popular
2021-05-03T14:42:41 < danst> thank you effractur, I will study the doc after I get stlink I guess?
2021-05-03T14:43:04 < effractur> danst: if the system bootloader is still on there 
2021-05-03T14:43:12 < effractur> then if the bootpins are correct it will show up as DFU on the usb
2021-05-03T14:43:20 < effractur> see also that doc about it
2021-05-03T14:43:24 < effractur> or you can flash it via serial
2021-05-03T14:43:47 < danst> there's a boot button on the pcb, I've tried holding it while connecting power and it didn't show up as dfu usb device
2021-05-03T14:44:10 < effractur> you need to hold it while resetting
2021-05-03T14:44:38 < danst> ah, so hold it and short some reset pin with gnd probably
2021-05-03T14:45:03 < danst> ok don't get mad for me not reading the doc rn, I just want to go get some food and buy the required device
2021-05-03T14:45:04 < effractur> but i would recommend read that doc i inked
2021-05-03T14:45:14 < danst> if some generic usb stlink would work that's super cool
2021-05-03T14:45:23 < effractur> yes that should also work
2021-05-03T14:45:42 < danst> thank you very much
2021-05-03T14:45:45 < danst> <3
2021-05-03T14:46:11 < effractur> with the correct inout etc
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2021-05-03T14:59:10 < karlp> f7 definitely has dfu in system bootloader
2021-05-03T14:59:16 < karlp> and you can't erase it.
2021-05-03T14:59:53 < effractur> karlp: no but you cant change the addressed of the boot0/boot1 it seems if  i understand that dock correctly
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2021-05-03T15:20:04 < kakium69> hello afternoon
2021-05-03T15:58:20 < karlp> feck.  been using a "generic usb-a receptacle" model for some 3d planning.
2021-05-03T15:58:37 < karlp> it's 5.2mm high, case vendor says there's 5mm space available, and that appeared compatible.
2021-05-03T15:58:45 < karlp> go and look at _actual_ usb-a- receptacle parts
2021-05-03T15:58:56 < karlp> almost uniformally 6.9mm high, which will absolutely NOT fit :)
2021-05-03T16:00:21 < jpa-> use a mount-in-cutout part?
2021-05-03T16:01:43 < karlp> yeah, or revserd,
2021-05-03T16:01:47 < zyp> switch to usb-c? :D
2021-05-03T16:01:50 < karlp> already have two parts on the other side, just tedious...
2021-05-03T16:01:55 < karlp> zyp: hah
2021-05-03T16:01:57 < jpa-> https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/io_connectors/0482580002  i've used this
2021-05-03T16:01:59 < karlp> trendy, sure, but...
2021-05-03T16:02:13 < karlp> not very conducive sticking dongles in.
2021-05-03T16:02:18 < jpa-> usb-c host side seems a bit annoying to do
2021-05-03T16:02:51 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-m3tgsBSt8 internet lock picked
2021-05-03T16:02:51 < karlp> it's a usb20. host anywy, so would be just the wiring, and then confusing users who thought they could charge their macbook on it...
2021-05-03T16:03:22 < zyp> to be compliant you're supposed to verify CC is pulled down before you turn on vbus
2021-05-03T16:03:38 < zyp> i.e. a comparator and a power switch
2021-05-03T16:03:39 < karlp> yeah, all sorts of extra "features"
2021-05-03T16:03:57 < karlp> midmount is way less common parts too.
2021-05-03T16:04:12 < zyp> I mean, for an A-socket to be compliant you're supposed to do current limiting anyway
2021-05-03T16:04:17 < zyp> I believe
2021-05-03T16:04:27 < karlp> bleh, this isn't what I thought I was doing today, I was only planning on measuring the _position_ of the cutout.
2021-05-03T16:04:40 < karlp> even if that's a requirement, it's certainly not one that's enforced.
2021-05-03T16:05:00 < karlp> I've been tossing up whether to put a power switch there or not, currently don't, onyl a usb esd protection.
2021-05-03T16:05:10 < karlp> but the connector is more tedious right now.
2021-05-03T16:05:51 < zyp> could probably throw in one of those pfet greenpaks to get both comparator and switch in one device for like 25c or something
2021-05-03T16:06:08 < jpa-> having *some* current limiting on USB-A sockets is pretty important, i.e. don't dumb 20 amperes to it
2021-05-03T16:06:30 < zyp> jpa-, current limiting is an upstream responsibility :D
2021-05-03T16:06:54 < jpa-> how far upstream can you push it?
2021-05-03T16:07:03 < zyp> power plant
2021-05-03T16:07:10 < jpa-> "why didn't you limit the current in the river upstream of our power plant, now my usb cable is smoking"
2021-05-03T16:09:17 < karlp> upstream is only 4A before thermal shutdown of the supply, and there's other things on that permanently, so doubt it would ever be able to pull more than 3A, so don't feel _toooo_ bad about it.
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2021-05-03T16:09:51 < karlp> zyp: you a dialog employee now? :)
2021-05-03T16:10:34 < zyp> nah
2021-05-03T16:14:51 < zyp> I mean, go ahead and use a TPS25821 :)
2021-05-03T16:17:22 < karlp> I'd use an apl3511 or whatsit first.
2021-05-03T16:17:48 < karlp> I mean, I still want an A really, not a C.
2021-05-03T16:18:18 < karlp> there's gotta be a china vesrion of those usb-c port controllers right?
2021-05-03T16:18:39 < zyp> probably
2021-05-03T16:18:49  * Laurenceb is getting confused by EMC
2021-05-03T16:19:08 < Laurenceb> if I have unshielded tristed pair, one side gnd, one side high impedance
2021-05-03T16:19:24 < Laurenceb> then I can understand how E field will couple to the high impedance side
2021-05-03T16:19:34 < karlp> especially as that tps part is ~unobtainium
2021-05-03T16:20:04 < Laurenceb> but B field will drive a current down the gnd right? So voltage on the high impedance line will be gnd current * gnd line resistance  ?
2021-05-03T16:20:51 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to read EN61000-4-6
2021-05-03T16:21:14 < englishman> that'll only give you the test setup
2021-05-03T16:23:21 < Laurenceb> yeah, but they use some coupling network things that are supposed to be realistic
2021-05-03T16:24:21 < jpa-> Laurenceb: what do you mean by "voltage on the high impedance line"? the voltage between the two ends of the wire?
2021-05-03T16:24:25 < englishman> yes but what does that change really
2021-05-03T16:25:00 < Laurenceb> left lay I have a sensor at one end that generates a constant voltage
2021-05-03T16:25:06 < Laurenceb> *lets say
2021-05-03T16:25:12 < Laurenceb> freaking autocorrect
2021-05-03T16:25:21 < jpa-> is it connected to anything else, to some external ground potential?
2021-05-03T16:25:25 < zyp> karlp, so the thing that's interesting about the greenpaks is that you can source them directly from dialog for cheap at reasonable quantities
2021-05-03T16:25:40 < Laurenceb> then the question is, what is the voltage at the other end, where some large device tied to gnd measures it
2021-05-03T16:25:55 < jpa-> Laurenceb: also, if the sensor gives out constant voltage, then you have two low-impedance lines
2021-05-03T16:26:02 < Laurenceb> jpa-: one end is gnd/ a large device with high capacitance to gnd
2021-05-03T16:26:19 < Laurenceb> I dont think it can be modelled as two lines
2021-05-03T16:26:22 < zyp> when you can get a 20c part with a pfet, comparator and room for some custom logic glue, it's hard not to like it
2021-05-03T16:26:27 < Laurenceb> its an unshielded twisted pair
2021-05-03T16:26:58 < jpa-> Laurenceb: so, what is your question?
2021-05-03T16:27:36 < Laurenceb> does inductive coupling cause a voltage difference to appear
2021-05-03T16:28:18 < jpa-> mostly no, because the current induced in one loop is canceled by the current induced the other way in the next twisted loop
2021-05-03T16:28:29 < Laurenceb> I'm not convinced
2021-05-03T16:28:42 < jpa-> you get some noise if the twist interval is larger than the diameter of your B field
2021-05-03T16:28:49 < Laurenceb> I think EN61000-4-6 is concerned with the entire cable acting as an antenna
2021-05-03T16:29:05 < Laurenceb> so twisting is concerned with much smaller scale
2021-05-03T16:29:10 < karlp> zyp: oh, I hear you :) I was following your user experience with them with great interest.
2021-05-03T16:29:19 < karlp> I just don't have a lot of need for that (right now)
2021-05-03T16:29:23 < Laurenceb> ah yeah, its 150kHz to 80MHz
2021-05-03T16:29:34 < Laurenceb> its to do with whole cable acting as an antenna
2021-05-03T16:29:59 < karlp> (or, I'm not creative enough to see what it would "fix" for me)
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2021-05-03T16:30:15 < jpa-> Laurenceb: sure, you can get common mode current there, but it will not cause a voltage difference between the two wires of the twisted pair
2021-05-03T16:30:23 < Laurenceb> I think it will
2021-05-03T16:30:27 < jpa-> why?
2021-05-03T16:30:30 < zyp> karlp, the bad part is that all the interesting ones are OTP and not in circuit programmable
2021-05-03T16:30:31 < Laurenceb> as the gnd wire has resistivity
2021-05-03T16:30:42 < BrainDamage> you can also slap a ferrite choke fwiw
2021-05-03T16:30:45 < Laurenceb> also there is capacitive coupling of E fields
2021-05-03T16:30:46 < zyp> so you either have to burn your own before assembling, or get a whole reel
2021-05-03T16:30:53 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: good point
2021-05-03T16:31:19 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: but I want to demonstrate compliance without testing as much as poss anyway...
2021-05-03T16:31:40 < Laurenceb> I wonder if using shielded cable lets you get away with less
2021-05-03T16:31:57 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I saw that too 
2021-05-03T16:31:59 < Laurenceb> 20V rf sweep is nasty
2021-05-03T16:32:14 < jpa-> shielded cable adds another layer of shielding against differential mode interference, but you can get as much common mode as without
2021-05-03T16:32:39 < jpa-> though by having the shield separate you have more options on where to connect it, but that would actually require you to understand it
2021-05-03T16:32:42 < Laurenceb> jpa-: the shield adds a lot more gnd cross section aiui
2021-05-03T16:32:46 < BrainDamage> put the transformer on the pcb, then knowing the transformer's specs and mutual inductance you'll know the common mode rejection
2021-05-03T16:32:52 < Laurenceb> also there is no capacitive coupling
2021-05-03T16:33:01 < BrainDamage> so it won't be up to the cable anymore
2021-05-03T16:33:08 < jpa-> there is plenty of capacitive coupling to your shield
2021-05-03T16:33:21 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: this isnt for transformer coupled strain gauges any more
2021-05-03T16:33:39 < Laurenceb> jpa-: there is very little capacitive coupling to the outside world from the signal lines
2021-05-03T16:34:23 < jpa-> Laurenceb: sure, that's the point of shielding - but that shields against differential mode interference only, not common mode
2021-05-03T16:34:31 < jpa-> as the shield has pretty good coupling to the signal wires
2021-05-03T16:34:38 < Laurenceb> fair point
2021-05-03T16:34:42 < jpa-> and then you can go calculate all the same things with shield resistance
2021-05-03T16:38:07 < Laurenceb> but really nobody actually cares about common mode, the problem is more common mode ->differential
2021-05-03T16:38:39 < Ultrasauce> yeah when your input impedances are not the same that is the main problem
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2021-05-03T16:41:12 < Laurenceb> aha found EN61000-4-6
2021-05-03T16:41:46 < Laurenceb> ok so they using common mode choke then a 100ohm*number of conductors resistor into each conductor
2021-05-03T16:42:05 < Laurenceb> doesnt seem very realistic tbh...
2021-05-03T16:42:55 < Laurenceb> actually I guess it'd be accurate for very long cables, when its fully into the rf domain
2021-05-03T16:43:12 < Laurenceb> but not for near field stuff
2021-05-03T16:43:53 < Laurenceb> I cant find a separate part for shielded cable tho wtf
2021-05-03T16:44:23 < Ultrasauce> http://www.bennettprescott.com/downloads/grounding_tutorial.pdf
2021-05-03T16:44:25 < Laurenceb> theres no way shielded cable is just as bad as unshielded
2021-05-03T16:45:44 < karlp> what's this guy talking about "usb whine" in audio? https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1389102815205683200
2021-05-03T16:47:06 < Ultrasauce> the next tweet explains it
2021-05-03T16:47:20 < Laurenceb> depends on the ic
2021-05-03T16:47:30 < jpa-> probably 1kHz (or 8kHz) start-of-frame causing some interference
2021-05-03T16:47:43 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-03T16:47:51 < Laurenceb> this sss1629 is prettry hawt
2021-05-03T16:48:13 < Laurenceb> I removed the biassing network from the mic inputs and its down to 16nV/sqrt(Hz) noise
2021-05-03T16:48:32 < karlp> Ultrasauce: but that's not a usb problem, that's just a normal, "you have shitty grounds" ?
2021-05-03T16:48:48 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-03T16:48:59 < Ultrasauce> for some definition of shitty that includes any impedance above zero?
2021-05-03T16:49:25 < Laurenceb> https://rumble.com/vgf2u9-incel-rant-14-being-and-becoming-during-societal-collapse.html
2021-05-03T16:49:27 < jpa-> well it is usb problem in the sense that it is not truly differential
2021-05-03T16:49:27 < karlp> I was under the impression that the single ended states of usb2 were pretty slim,
2021-05-03T16:49:36 < effractur> So the main issue is that if you got a usb3 thingy
2021-05-03T16:49:40 < effractur> yuou wwant everyhting on usb3
2021-05-03T16:49:45 < effractur> that makes your life so much easier
2021-05-03T16:49:58 < jpa-> single-ended states of USB2 are short, but when you repeat it at constant frequency is can easily become audible
2021-05-03T16:50:24 < karlp> I thought they were only in some of the connection modes, are they regular?
2021-05-03T16:50:38 < zyp> yeah, SE0 is used for packet delimiting
2021-05-03T16:50:39 < jpa-> at end of every packet
2021-05-03T16:50:43 < karlp> oh, ok then. fine.
2021-05-03T16:51:02 < zyp> at least in FS, but I'm not sure about HS
2021-05-03T16:51:19 < jpa-> IIRC you get FS SOF packets even if all devices are HS
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2021-05-03T16:52:19 < zyp> no, once a link is HS all signalling is HS
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2021-05-03T16:55:24 < zyp> I looked it up, HS signalling is true differential
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2021-05-03T16:56:38 < zyp> packets are delimited by deliberate bit stuff errors
2021-05-03T16:57:45 < Laurenceb> aha
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2021-05-03T16:57:59 < Laurenceb> EN61000 describes the problems I was talking about
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2021-05-03T16:58:27 < Laurenceb> >The EM-clamp is a clamping device that subjects the cable under test to both capacitive and
2021-05-03T16:58:27 < Laurenceb> inductive coupling of the RF stress. It was invented largely for this test by Bersier and Ryser at
2021-05-03T16:58:27 < Laurenceb> the Swiss PTT.
2021-05-03T16:59:47 < Laurenceb> and this is  now the recommended method as it allows cable construction/shields/differential impedance ot be accurately modelled
2021-05-03T17:03:01 < jpa-> zyp: hmm yeah, with USB high-speed device the SOF etc. are also in HS mode; but for some reason i'm seeing significant voltage spikes when measuring ground pin at two ends of a 50cm USB cable
2021-05-03T17:03:04 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_whine.png
2021-05-03T17:05:20 < zyp> fun
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2021-05-03T17:07:59 < jpa-> actually that was between shield and gnd because i wasn't thinking, https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_whine2.png gnd to gnd
2021-05-03T17:08:51 < jpa-> next i'll have to isolate vbus to see if it is just current usage spike
2021-05-03T17:12:30 < Ultrasauce> i have a wonderful amazonbasics hub that audibly makes noise at 8khz
2021-05-03T17:13:43 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_whine_isolated_vbus.png  yeah, spikes even when vbus is fed separately
2021-05-03T17:20:50 < jpa-> zyp: looks like while the data signalling is fully differential, the common mode voltage changes between idle state and the packets: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_whine_zoomed.png
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2021-05-03T17:22:15 < zyp> huh
2021-05-03T17:22:40 < zyp> looks like the data lines are not perfectly balanced
2021-05-03T17:23:03 < Laurenceb> I found some of the cheap hubs were actually the most power efficient
2021-05-03T17:23:20 < zyp> or wait
2021-05-03T17:23:35 < jpa-> the imbalance is probably just because this is 50MHz scope & probes and sampling at 250MSps, while the data signalling is 480Mbps
2021-05-03T17:23:45 < zyp> actually, I think it's only using sourcing drivers with pulldown, not push-pull
2021-05-03T17:24:00 < zyp> hence why it's positive when DC coupled
2021-05-03T17:24:36 < zyp> or idk
2021-05-03T17:24:38 < jpa-> it's probably switching off the drivers between packets to let the other end communicate, but the data lines are biased to 0V instead of the bias voltage it has when data is being transferred
2021-05-03T17:25:19 < jpa-> looks like spec is 0mV to 400mV on the signal lines in high speed mode, with 200mV common mode
2021-05-03T17:25:56 < jpa-> so if it was just biased to 200mV instead of 0mV, it would be better
2021-05-03T17:26:19 < Laurenceb> https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/073/105/087/original/4bb765b8fa782055.jpeg
2021-05-03T17:26:34 < Laurenceb> loll this reminds me of when he made anti fascist cartoons
2021-05-03T17:26:39 < zyp> yeah
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2021-05-03T17:36:24 < jpa-> ah, and actually the receiving side drivers are not disabled, but they are driving SE0 - which through the 45 ohm driver impedance works as biasing
2021-05-03T17:44:50 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/usb_whine_bias.png   i thought i could fix it by connecting 560 ohm from each line to +5V; but of course the bias point still changes when one side starts transmitting
2021-05-03T17:44:57 < jpa-> i'm amazed that it still enumerates though
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2021-05-03T18:22:00 < danst> effractur: obtained st-link v2 successfully, the seller guy said if it doesn't detect as DFU while connected to usb then I'm buying a useless thing
2021-05-03T18:22:46 < jpa-> do stlinks update with dfu now? i thought they needed that special updater tool
2021-05-03T18:23:39 < danst> jpa-: my problem is that STM32F722RET6 began saying "cannot read USB descriptor" 
2021-05-03T18:24:10 < danst> and the reason for that was that I've failed to flash it properly using serial over usb tool
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2021-05-03T19:16:16 < Laurenceb> ahhha
2021-05-03T19:16:54 < Laurenceb> en61000-4-6 only specifies the resistor based coupling method for unshielded cable
2021-05-03T19:17:12 < Laurenceb> also the em-coupler system is generally recommended now 
2021-05-03T19:17:45 < Laurenceb> as that captures differential input impedance effects more accurately
2021-05-03T19:18:26 < Laurenceb> but it looks massively easier to pass with shielded cables
2021-05-03T19:18:51 < Ultrasauce> why do you have to have a single ended input anyway
2021-05-03T19:23:21 < Laurenceb> for interfacing with analogue sensors
2021-05-03T19:24:44 < jpa-> .. you can interface analog sensors with differential inputs also
2021-05-03T19:25:04 < Laurenceb> sure but its not as simple
2021-05-03T19:25:38 < Laurenceb> also 10V RMS is nasty even with common mode
2021-05-03T19:25:58 < Laurenceb> if its just on the shield its no big issue
2021-05-03T20:02:18 < Laurenceb> lolll
2021-05-03T20:02:29 < Laurenceb> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/21/05/03/1538256/what3words-sends-legal-threat-to-a-security-researcher-for-sharing-an-open-source-alternative
2021-05-03T20:02:50 < Laurenceb> sure would be a shame if someone was to post the approx 20 lines of code required to impliment this
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2021-05-03T20:07:08 < qyx> aren't there things actually doing that?
2021-05-03T20:07:18 < Laurenceb> https://cryptome.org/2021/04/WhatFreeWords-Javascript-Library.txt
2021-05-03T20:07:24 < Laurenceb> loll utterly btfo'd
2021-05-03T20:10:03 < qyx> qth locator is quite similar
2021-05-03T20:10:06 -!- hkl0 [~hkl0@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-05-03T20:10:10 < qyx> except not words
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2021-05-03T20:57:05 < BrainDamage> make it 4 words, and you just encode lat and long using a std dictionary
2021-05-03T20:57:12 < BrainDamage> implementation size: 1 line of python
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2021-05-03T21:04:29 < onio> Hi, I am having issues with my stm32f405rgtb micro getting stuck in startup_stm32f405rgtx.s file using stm32cubeide v1.3. It intermittently seems works by getting to the main() function. I am developing on Ubuntu 20.04
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2021-05-03T21:23:27 < emeb> STM32F405RGT6 was on of the earliest F4 parts out - I built some stuff with those a long time ago and recently tried to work with them again. Was weird - saw all kinds of odd behavior that I haven't experienced with more recent STM32 parts.
2021-05-03T21:23:58 < emeb> I wonder if there may be HW reliability issues with some of those old ones.
2021-05-03T21:26:44 < onio> emeb, thanks for the heads-up on that. I was not aware of this. I have been wondering what I did to make it work sometimes
2021-05-03T21:27:55 < emeb> onio: not saying this is definitely an issue, and I have an STM32F405 board from Adafruit that's newer and works fine. Just my own old board behaves... oddly.
2021-05-03T21:28:19 < emeb> (and it worked fine when I built it years ago)
2021-05-03T21:35:27 < onio> emeb, I think I might have found what the issue is. Looking at the sources files I noticed that stm32cubeide is showing a question mark on the sources files
2021-05-03T21:36:49 < onio> even though it builds without any errors. I opened another project and the sources files have marking of "s" 
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2021-05-03T21:53:47 < machinehum> O.o
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2021-05-03T22:02:33 < Steffanx> Welcome zhe machinehum
2021-05-03T22:16:57 < Laurenceb> https://files.catbox.moe/mf5dey.jpeg
2021-05-03T22:17:42 < kakium69> is it safe?
2021-05-03T22:18:08 < Laurenceb> as long as you cover your eyes
2021-05-03T22:19:08 < Steffanx> lol that grin is gold
2021-05-03T22:20:03 < Steffanx> oh its a fucking edit. screw you Laurenceb
2021-05-03T22:20:13 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-05-03T22:23:48 < tct> tell me a sad story.
2021-05-03T22:24:00 < zyp> no.
2021-05-03T22:24:17 < tct> :(
2021-05-03T22:26:40 < Steffanx> tct is in ##stm32
2021-05-03T22:26:51 < Steffanx> The end.
2021-05-03T22:27:19 < zyp> true
2021-05-03T22:27:36 < tct> the sad ness is real.
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2021-05-03T22:30:53 < Steffanx> there is a special music live music channel for you on youtube tct https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIlUEixDWHo
2021-05-03T22:31:01 < Steffanx> -music
2021-05-03T22:31:40 < tct> I need the proper textual story format.
2021-05-03T22:31:45 < tct> (want)
2021-05-03T22:34:46 < Steffanx> heh too bad
2021-05-03T22:35:10 < Steffanx> dongs_ pretty much left ##stm32 so its a happy place now.
2021-05-03T22:35:34 < tct> what happened to Mr.Dongs?
2021-05-03T22:35:36 < tct> did he get bored?
2021-05-03T22:35:40 < tct> or did he stop raging?
2021-05-03T22:35:47 < tct> did he become a believer?
2021-05-03T22:35:51 < zyp> went to telegram
2021-05-03T22:36:35 < tct> what motivated him to do that? what´s wrong with irc?
2021-05-03T22:37:11 < Steffanx> its a happy place now.
2021-05-03T22:40:29 < machinehum> Does anyone know the hotkey to make zathura not stack windows next to each other?
2021-05-03T22:40:49 < tct> well, at least on-topicness didn´t seem to change in ##stm32 :p
2021-05-03T22:42:53 < machinehum> wtf is an stm32?
2021-05-03T22:43:08 < Steffanx> tct: hes mad at freenode
2021-05-03T22:43:23 < Steffanx> someone took the nick he never got to register
2021-05-03T22:43:28 < tct> lol
2021-05-03T22:43:46 < tct> so dongs had an identity crisis?
2021-05-03T22:43:54 < Steffanx> pretty much
2021-05-03T22:51:21 < Steffanx> so got a sad story yourself mr tct?
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2021-05-03T22:53:24 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: effractur, thePiGrepper_, smvoss, Sadale, nashpa, _unreal_, kow_, aidenhjj, ds2, ABLomas,  (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
2021-05-03T22:54:11 < mawk> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2021-05-03T22:54:39 < Steffanx> ok this is sad, we lost the blaxter
2021-05-03T22:54:47 < mawk> :(
2021-05-03T22:54:51 < mawk> and braindamage
2021-05-03T22:54:54 < mawk> and salade
2021-05-03T22:54:56 < mawk> salade lol
2021-05-03T22:54:58 < mawk> sadale
2021-05-03T22:55:02 < mawk> and the rest are just useless people
2021-05-03T22:55:11 < mawk> or maybe c10ud he's not useless
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2021-05-03T22:55:44 < mawk> don't tell them I said that Steffanx 
2021-05-03T22:55:49 < mawk> they will hurt me
2021-05-03T22:57:11 < Steffanx> dont forget your fellow dutchy, effractu r
2021-05-03T22:57:29 < mawk> ah yes
2021-05-03T22:57:41 < mawk> my boy e·f·f·r·a·c·t·u·r 
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2021-05-03T23:06:54 < Laurenceb> incel floyd 
2021-05-03T23:06:58 < Laurenceb> I cant breed
2021-05-03T23:14:46 < tct> plenty
2021-05-03T23:15:01 < tct> gf is currently in dutchland
2021-05-03T23:15:03 < tct> due to return tomorrow.
2021-05-03T23:17:02 < englishman> did you get a made in china tesla tectu?
2021-05-03T23:17:19 < englishman> or will you wait and get one made in burrlin
2021-05-03T23:18:12 < Steffanx> and after that youll be in quarantine for 14 days tct?
2021-05-03T23:19:29 < Steffanx> i dont think tct would trade his hummer for a telsa
2021-05-03T23:19:48 < englishman> oh will he get the 1000 hp electric hummer with WTF mode?
2021-05-03T23:20:03 < tct> it´s a jeep grand cherokee, not a hummer
2021-05-03T23:20:24 < tct> wtf is a made-in-china-tesla tho?
2021-05-03T23:20:25 < Steffanx> oh still that one?
2021-05-03T23:20:35 < tct> yes
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2021-05-03T23:20:47 < tct> it survived everything being thrown at it so far
2021-05-03T23:21:21 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-03T23:21:28 < tct> had a situation like a year ago where I needed to call in some rescue team. they managed to get the car out of the situation and the dudes were like: ´wtf, how is this car still driving. any other car we got out of here so far was beyond repair¨
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2021-05-03T23:24:17 < tct> nothing special on jeep´s side tho. any decently build car would survive this
2021-05-03T23:26:17 < Steffanx> I know a sad story now, tct
2021-05-03T23:26:22 < tct> https://ibb.co/nP093VH
2021-05-03T23:26:27 < Steffanx> This swiss guy still didnt find a proper ' key
2021-05-03T23:26:36 < Steffanx> haha, lol oops
2021-05-03T23:26:57 < Steffanx> Do i want to know what you were trying to do?
2021-05-03T23:27:03 < zyp> take a shortcut
2021-05-03T23:27:09 < Steffanx> or did the snow melt in the mean time?
2021-05-03T23:37:00 < specing> tct: how?
2021-05-03T23:38:16 < englishman> the only jeep grand cherokee i've been in suffered from the "death rattle"
2021-05-03T23:39:06 < englishman> knowing tectu he swerved to run over a cat and ended up like that
2021-05-03T23:39:28 < englishman> cat 1, tectu 0
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--- Day changed Tue May 04 2021
2021-05-04T00:26:22 < Steffanx> He doesnt want to share this sad story with is it seems. Why not, tct?
2021-05-04T00:26:33 < Steffanx> Remember we're a happy gang now
2021-05-04T00:27:05 < Steffanx> Today youre nominated to be our happy sunshine
2021-05-04T00:27:16 < Steffanx> And chosen
2021-05-04T00:33:51 < qyx> hows your drugs, Steffanx 
2021-05-04T00:34:05 < Steffanx> Drugs is over rated
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2021-05-04T00:43:22 < tct> sry, still in a call
2021-05-04T00:44:11 < Steffanx> sexy times?
2021-05-04T00:46:49 < Steffanx> Hows yours qyx? got the vaccine yet?
2021-05-04T00:47:47 < qyx> nope, waiting 2 more weeks or so until they decide to release pfizer for me
2021-05-04T00:48:02 < qyx> at 
2021-05-04T00:48:09 < qyx> ealeast I hope so
2021-05-04T01:01:14 < bitmask> this isnt my pic and its not a great pic but look at this shit, theres a mass dieoff a certain species of fish because of bacteria in the water
2021-05-04T01:01:16 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fiLQXZP.jpg
2021-05-04T01:06:35 < Steffanx> Hmm, fishy
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2021-05-04T01:45:29 < kakium69> must smell nice
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2021-05-04T06:21:14 < R2COM> ok
2021-05-04T06:21:33 < R2COM> zyp what were steps you took to get blackmagic probe working on macos
2021-05-04T06:21:40 < R2COM> i wanna try it here on freebsd
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2021-05-04T08:17:44 < zyp> I plugged it in
2021-05-04T08:25:40 < t4nk_fn> lol, I was thinking along those lines myself ;)
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2021-05-04T09:11:20 < machinehum> Has anyone fudged the rules of JLC... specifically hole/hole < 0.5mm?
2021-05-04T09:11:28 < machinehum> say... .4?
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2021-05-04T09:33:45 < aandrew> machinehum: I did a JLCPCB design last summer with .25mm holes
2021-05-04T09:35:43 < zyp> I've made one with .2mm, but I think machinehum asked about the hole-hole distance that's specced as minimum 0.5mm
2021-05-04T09:37:31 < aandrew> ah. yeah I don't think I've tried to make holes that close together
2021-05-04T09:37:52 < zyp> I've never paid attention to that
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2021-05-04T09:42:09 < antto> it probably makes a diff whether it's PTH or NPTH
2021-05-04T09:43:12 < antto> but i've done small holes of both kind with allpcb, i have some mousebites on two boards, i think i used 0.3mm drill and that much distancee from hole to hole
2021-05-04T09:43:17 < antto> or was it 0.5mm
2021-05-04T09:46:06 < jpa-> machinehum: usually they are quite strict in their DRC, i.e. won't manufacture a board that does not pass the specs
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2021-05-04T11:34:37 < ventyl> interesting, my nucleo died
2021-05-04T11:35:49 < Xogium> ventyl: died as in truly died or just bricked ?
2021-05-04T11:38:00 < ventyl> something is apparently shorted and develops quite a lot of heat
2021-05-04T11:38:09 < ventyl> and makes weaker / shittier USB implementations sad
2021-05-04T11:38:15 < Xogium> oh boy
2021-05-04T11:38:31 < Xogium> what nucleo is this ? :O
2021-05-04T11:38:48 < ventyl> L073
2021-05-04T11:40:15 < Xogium> damn
2021-05-04T11:40:16 < ventyl> it might be faulty voltage regulator or something as the CPU itself still runs
2021-05-04T11:40:32 < Xogium> could be yeah but, how did this even happen ?
2021-05-04T11:40:57 < ventyl> IDK, because for months now I am only using STlink to flash another board
2021-05-04T11:41:09 < ventyl> maybe i shorted it accidentally
2021-05-04T11:42:52 < Xogium> this is super weird
2021-05-04T11:43:12 < Xogium> but I guess a short isn't so hard to get if its a bare board, right ?
2021-05-04T11:43:13 < ventyl> well, it fullfilled it's purpose
2021-05-04T11:43:25 < Xogium> I mean, sometimes all you need is a piece of metal touching a pin
2021-05-04T11:44:05 < antto> ventyl, measure resistance from ground to the power rails, and maybe also between different power rails perhaps
2021-05-04T11:45:03 < ventyl> antto: well, giving the fact that the bottom of nucleo is *really* hot and it power cycles whole dock due to power problems, there is definitely some kind of short circuit
2021-05-04T11:45:24 < antto> i'm not saying there ain't
2021-05-04T11:46:34 < ventyl> right now i am interested only in stlink, so I will probably remove nucleo part and check if stlink itself works
2021-05-04T11:49:23 < Xogium> at least, it didn't try to burn your house down like this crap of orange pi zero I had
2021-05-04T11:49:26 < Xogium> lol
2021-05-04T11:50:14 < antto> crapberry pie?
2021-05-04T11:50:21 < ventyl> no, it tried to kill my shitty ARM laptop
2021-05-04T11:50:21 < Xogium> quite
2021-05-04T11:50:48 < Xogium> that's still not nice, but at least you didn't get hurt, I hope
2021-05-04T11:51:04 < ventyl> 5V can make no hurt to me
2021-05-04T11:51:08 < Xogium> I still have the scar from the burn I got from grabbing the burning hot orange pi zero
2021-05-04T11:51:09 < ventyl> I have trained with ~230
2021-05-04T11:51:14 < Xogium> 170C
2021-05-04T11:51:15 < ventyl> oh
2021-05-04T11:51:27 < ventyl> it didn't manage to get as how
2021-05-04T11:51:30 < ventyl> *hot
2021-05-04T11:52:10 < Xogium> orange pi can do so if they're stuck inside a case, have no heatsink on, and are stuck infinitely in u-boot, apparently…
2021-05-04T11:52:26 < Xogium> u-boot ignores the interrupts the SoC is sending to please shut it the hell down
2021-05-04T11:54:04 < Xogium> but yeah I didn't know it was litterally burning up and melting when I grabbed it
2021-05-04T11:54:07 < Xogium> I sure wish I did
2021-05-04T11:54:18 < Xogium> a burn at 170C kind of hurts
2021-05-04T11:54:49 < Xogium> especially considering that my hand whent through the plastic case like it was melting chocolate
2021-05-04T11:55:21 < Xogium> pretty sure someone with eyes would have seen the danger
2021-05-04T11:55:36 < ventyl> didn't you smell the plastic burning?
2021-05-04T11:55:46 < ventyl> ok, stlink itself seems to be running
2021-05-04T11:56:06 < ventyl> and I hope that one numb USB port is just short circuit protection kicking in
2021-05-04T11:56:26 < Xogium> I did but I wasn't even sure what that weird smell was, that was the first time I did smell it. I tried to find where it was coming from but it took me a full minute to  find out the heck was making that smell
2021-05-04T11:58:09 < Xogium> and then well I was already rather high on adrenalin or however you spell that, and I was a bit in panic mode, and didn't know what to do but unplug the thing from my laptop, So I did, but reflexively put my hand on it, or at least I think that's what happened
2021-05-04T11:58:22 < Xogium> I'm not sure, it went too fast
2021-05-04T11:59:33 < Xogium> the worst part was that it picked the worst possible time to do this. I was alone at home while my friend was gone to get some food for breakfast :p
2021-05-04T12:00:15 < Xogium> I'm probably lucky that I found it and unplugged when I did
2021-05-04T12:00:16 < ventyl> that's how accidents usually work
2021-05-04T12:00:34 < Xogium> pretty sure it could have set the place on fire, at that rate
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2021-05-04T12:01:11 < Xogium> it was long dead because the SoC can't stand 100 degrees for long period of time, let alone 170
2021-05-04T12:01:25 < Xogium> but melting plastic and stuff going on the wooden table, yeah
2021-05-04T12:02:07 < ventyl> meh
2021-05-04T12:02:21 < ventyl> ok, nice three-hours long distraction is over
2021-05-04T12:02:30 < ventyl> i should probably get myself some more viable debuggers
2021-05-04T12:02:59 < Xogium> sounds like it
2021-05-04T12:03:05 < Xogium> but I'm surprised this happened
2021-05-04T12:03:21 < Xogium> and I hope your poor arm laptop didn't lose one of its usb ports :/
2021-05-04T12:03:43 < ventyl> this machine has very shitty power supply design. it tends to drain battery even under mains if there is heavy load
2021-05-04T12:04:12 < ventyl> and it seems, that nucleo must have been faulty to certain degree even before
2021-05-04T12:04:28 < Xogium> oh
2021-05-04T12:04:46 < Xogium> well, everything can't be perfect I guess
2021-05-04T12:04:51 < ventyl> because battery wasn't able to charge to 100%
2021-05-04T12:05:01 < ventyl> and now, after I removed nucleo it charges without problems
2021-05-04T12:05:08 < Xogium> ah ah ah
2021-05-04T12:05:20 < Xogium> we got our bad guy then
2021-05-04T12:05:31 < ventyl> the thing is that BMS used in this laptop has power envelope of 15W
2021-05-04T12:06:00 < ventyl> on its charging input. if you draw more than 15W, it starts draining the battery
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2021-05-04T12:08:12 < Xogium> oh
2021-05-04T12:08:24 < Xogium> yeah I've seen that once or twice also, I think, with crap phones
2021-05-04T12:08:37 < ventyl> that's quite common design actually
2021-05-04T12:08:41 < ventyl> even macbooks can do that
2021-05-04T12:08:50 < ventyl> for like... 20+ years
2021-05-04T12:08:55 < Xogium> friend of mine had a phone and was trying to charge it while an app was discharging it faster than it could charge
2021-05-04T12:09:20 < ventyl> the shitty part is that power envelope is only 15W
2021-05-04T12:09:20 < Xogium> batery went a bit warm and all so he powered off the phone and took it out. It was bloated
2021-05-04T12:09:23 < Xogium> no longer flat
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2021-05-04T12:17:31 < ventyl> I expect that 15W limitation comes from USB3 current limit
2021-05-04T12:17:49 < ventyl> to get more, they would need to employ either USB PD or QC
2021-05-04T12:18:05 < Xogium> sounds likely
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2021-05-04T12:42:35 < zyp> you mean usb-c current limit
2021-05-04T12:43:17 < zyp> usb-c max negotiable by simple resistors are 3A 5V, i.e. 15W
2021-05-04T12:43:49 < zyp> plain usb3 is limited to 4.5W, or 2.5W for plain usb2
2021-05-04T12:43:56 < ventyl> right
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2021-05-04T12:45:02 < zyp> which laptop is it? sounds like it's essentially a tablet with a keyboard
2021-05-04T12:45:13 < ventyl> pinebook pro. it is genuine laptop
2021-05-04T12:48:45 < zyp> apart from the keyboard, what does it have that you don't get on a tablet?
2021-05-04T12:50:12 < ventyl> PCI-E slot and one free internal USB2.0
2021-05-04T12:52:31 < ventyl> but the question as you stated would make any laptop seems as just a tablet with a keyboard
2021-05-04T12:53:41 < zyp> well, yeah, the like is pretty blurred anyway, what with stuff like the microsoft surface
2021-05-04T12:54:24 < zyp> I was thinking more of the lines that it's powered by tablet-grade hardware
2021-05-04T12:54:40 < zyp> complete with a PMIC that doesn't charge with more than 15W
2021-05-04T12:55:58 < ventyl> that's mostly true, but on the other hand, you can get quite capable device for little over $200
2021-05-04T12:56:08 < ventyl> which is completely opensourced
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2021-05-04T15:40:05 < bitmask> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWqr9dz3c
2021-05-04T15:40:08 < bitmask> kinda cool
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2021-05-04T16:02:52 < englishman> The ongoing shortages of semiconductors may persist into 2022 and 2023, Nokia CEO Pekka Lundmark said in an interview. "There's a fight going on," he said, adding, "This is not going to go away anytime soon."
2021-05-04T16:03:51 < mawk> cool
2021-05-04T16:04:01 < mawk> routine is boring right
2021-05-04T16:04:05 < mawk> the englishman is made for crisis situations
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2021-05-04T16:04:49 < englishman> Mark Liu, chairman of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., said in a television interview that the foundry will catch up to customer demand for automotive microchips by the end of June. He also expressed optimism that war will not come to Taiwan due to the nation's key role in the global supply chain.
2021-05-04T16:05:26 < mawk> that would be an excellent reason for war to come to taiwan though
2021-05-04T16:05:36 < mawk> if china wanted to harm the rest of the world
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2021-05-04T16:07:41 < qyx> does anyone know https://www.cdiweb.com/?
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2021-05-04T16:16:21 < mawk> amuhricans
2021-05-04T16:16:41 < mawk> in colorado
2021-05-04T16:16:49 < mawk> they design their own components as well
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2021-05-04T16:46:24 < qyx> https://ce8dc832c.cloudimg.io/v7/_cdn_/62/97/B0/00/0/751910_1.jpg?width=1440&height=1080&wat=1&wat_url=_tme-wrk_%2Ftme_new.png&wat_scale=100p&ci_sign=67e4f8098f7b0da63903047f40e6269a47b472e4
2021-05-04T16:46:28 < qyx> interesting M12 connector
2021-05-04T17:00:56 < Laurenceb> muh M12 connectors
2021-05-04T17:01:03 < Laurenceb> hyperloop tier
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2021-05-04T17:18:16 < englishman> sure i've talked to CDI qyx i think maybe even bought stuff but i don't recall what
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2021-05-04T17:32:58 < jadew> woman makes billions: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-melinda-gates-announce-split-after-nearly-30-years-together-205500649.html
2021-05-04T17:34:13 < jadew> wow, bill gates only held less than 1% of microsoft
2021-05-04T17:34:23 < jadew> sold everything else
2021-05-04T17:38:30 < jadew> would you fuck bill gates for 5 million dollars?
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2021-05-04T17:40:36 < Ultrasauce> better than getting fucked by him for a hundred bucks
2021-05-04T17:40:43 < Ultrasauce> or whatever a windows license costs these days
2021-05-04T17:40:57 < jadew> I buy mine for $10
2021-05-04T17:41:30 < jadew> and did you miss the part where he only owns less then 1%? MS != Bill gates these days
2021-05-04T17:42:03 < jadew> he invested the money he got by selling MS into creating the chips they put in the vaccines
2021-05-04T17:43:06 < jadew> there's something weird going on with the stock market today
2021-05-04T17:43:25 < jadew> lots of big dips
2021-05-04T17:47:03  * qyx throws a big dip40 at jadew
2021-05-04T17:48:08 < jadew> hope it was lead free, cuz it pierced my finger when I caught it
2021-05-04T17:52:00 < jadew> even the biotech companies got hit hard
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2021-05-04T18:14:27 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/NorthShieldsNIP/status/1388559262863986690
2021-05-04T18:14:30 < Laurenceb> thats wacist
2021-05-04T18:16:43 < jadew> I don't get it
2021-05-04T18:16:49 < jadew> please explain
2021-05-04T18:17:58 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0UnROKWYAg9siY?format=jpg&name=large
2021-05-04T18:18:04 < Laurenceb> >NIP
2021-05-04T18:18:19 < jadew> what does it mean?
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2021-05-04T18:19:26 < Laurenceb> Nippon
2021-05-04T18:19:46 < Laurenceb> like "Jap"
2021-05-04T18:20:42 < jadew> ah, I think you have to be white to be offended by that, the chick in the picture looks asian
2021-05-04T18:22:39 < jadew> I think stocks are taking a turn towards pre-pandemic prices
2021-05-04T18:23:33 < kakium69> crashin?
2021-05-04T18:23:45 < jadew> looks like it, at least for the day
2021-05-04T18:23:55 < kakium69> it's not allowed
2021-05-04T18:24:02 < kakium69> stock must go up
2021-05-04T18:24:03 < jadew> biontech lost 18% already
2021-05-04T18:24:11 < jadew> moderna 7%
2021-05-04T18:24:15 < kakium69> how is big tech?
2021-05-04T18:24:23 < jadew> apple lost 4
2021-05-04T18:25:05 < jadew> all tech companies I have in the list are down
2021-05-04T18:25:14 < jadew> and that includes the vaccine ones, except for Pfizer
2021-05-04T18:25:39 < jadew> Pfizer is in a different world
2021-05-04T18:26:54 < jadew> I guess this is the part where the new wave of investors are losing their money
2021-05-04T18:27:11 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-04T18:28:56 < kakium69> when everyone from infants to seniors play stock market game there is a lot of loose money around
2021-05-04T18:30:26 < jadew> that's what the common wisdom seems to be, but everyone thinks they'll get out quick and someone else is going to be the loser
2021-05-04T18:30:54 < kakium69> or just hold
2021-05-04T18:31:16 < jadew> or that, thinking it will bounce back
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2021-05-04T18:31:27 < bitmask> wooo fully vaccinated
2021-05-04T18:31:31 < kakium69> it can take years
2021-05-04T18:31:43 < jadew> bitmask, congrats
2021-05-04T18:32:17 < kakium69> if you have moneys and you are diversified you can stick to the stock
2021-05-04T18:32:25 < bitmask> oh man this smoothie is delicious
2021-05-04T18:33:22 < bitmask> Mango, banana, strawberry, blueberry flax granola, agave, bee pollen and oat milk
2021-05-04T18:33:26 < kakium69> but if you are playing your paycheck you might chicken out
2021-05-04T18:34:23 < kakium69> and there are much much more of those investors now after rise of apps
2021-05-04T18:34:46 < kakium69> pee bollen
2021-05-04T18:34:59 < jadew> they're probably into crypto tho
2021-05-04T18:35:01 < bitmask> haha 
2021-05-04T18:35:15 < jadew> crypto and tesla
2021-05-04T18:35:32 < jadew> and possibly GME
2021-05-04T18:35:40 < bitmask> bill gates is getting divorced huh
2021-05-04T18:35:50 < jadew> yeah, sad story
2021-05-04T18:36:22 < jadew> I'm looking forward to see how much she gets
2021-05-04T18:37:10 < bitmask> yea its pretty crazy that shes gonna get half of his shit
2021-05-04T18:39:00 < jadew> yeah, it makes sense if you're married tho, because she stuck by and supported him
2021-05-04T18:39:44 < bitmask> i mean if she uses it for the charity then she should get half but otherwise she "should" get like 10 mill and be done
2021-05-04T18:39:52 < jadew> but it could have been anyone, so she just got lucky - is she really entitled to half? especially since she won't be supporting him anymore
2021-05-04T18:40:27 < jadew> maybe she was instrumental in microsoft, who knows
2021-05-04T18:40:51 < bitmask> how long were they together?
2021-05-04T18:40:57 < jadew> 30 years
2021-05-04T18:41:19 < jadew> 27
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2021-05-04T18:46:38 < bitmask> bahhh so much to do
2021-05-04T18:47:28 < bitmask> i really need to finish these two pcbs
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2021-05-04T19:01:51 < bitmask> test
2021-05-04T19:03:39 < bitmask> what silk text settings do you guys use
2021-05-04T19:03:44 < bitmask> stroke width and height
2021-05-04T19:03:52 < bitmask> and font?
2021-05-04T19:05:47 < aandrew> bitmask: in eagle I usually do 0.8mm, 15% ratio
2021-05-04T19:05:55 < aandrew> don't have altium open to tell you what I do there but it's similar
2021-05-04T19:06:06 < bitmask> k
2021-05-04T19:12:15 < jpa-> i use 0.8x0.8mm size and 0.15mm width for component texts, and 1x1mm 0.15mm width for any actually important labels
2021-05-04T19:13:51 < aandrew> 15% ratio for 0.8mm woudl be .12mm width so same ballpark, nice
2021-05-04T19:14:09 < aandrew> I like to beef up the width for bigger labels so they don't look anorexic
2021-05-04T19:15:20 < bitmask> i should print some variations on one of these boards just so i have an idea 
2021-05-04T19:15:47 < bitmask> ive been doing 1.2mm height and 0.2mm width
2021-05-04T19:16:13 < bitmask> i'll have to take a look at some of my older boards
2021-05-04T19:16:53 < bitmask> jlc's minimum is 0.8 x 0.153
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2021-05-04T19:27:30 < jadew> https://nypost.com/2021/05/01/american-running-for-mayor-of-london-drinks-urine-on-camera/
2021-05-04T19:28:44 < bitmask> wt
2021-05-04T19:28:45 < bitmask> f
2021-05-04T19:30:02 < machinehum> aandrew, jpa-, zyp thanks
2021-05-04T19:30:12 < machinehum> I feel asleep
2021-05-04T19:31:17 < jadew> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14739736/mayoral-candidate-brian-rose-drinks-own/
2021-05-04T19:31:23 < jadew> (video)
2021-05-04T19:31:55 < jadew> Later on in the video he is seen holding the glass up to the light while saying: “So this kind of tells me that I need to drink a bit more water because it's a little yellow.”
2021-05-04T19:31:58 < jadew> Rose then gulps back the urine before saying: “So it's a little salty.”
2021-05-04T19:32:00 < jadew> The clip from 2018 has now been deleted from Rose’s instagram.
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2021-05-04T20:29:34 < BrainDamage> so other than learning that he has a urine fetish, does that give you any insight over  how good a candidate as major would be?
2021-05-04T20:31:04 < antto> o_O
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2021-05-04T20:32:35 < antto> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/0e/1b/fe0e1bf2e90482a81f558cca84fdc9ad.gif
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2021-05-04T20:53:23 < bitmask> why do i always think giving myself a haircut is a good idea
2021-05-04T20:53:46 < Xogium> cause you don't like having long hair ?
2021-05-04T20:53:49 < Xogium> :p
2021-05-04T20:54:14 < antto> do you mean a DIY haircut?
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2021-05-04T20:56:46 < aandrew> I jus started slicking my hair back like some old Italian man
2021-05-04T20:57:09 < aandrew> it instantly adds 15y to my look but fuck having the length but not the volume to pull off a Doc Brown look
2021-05-04T20:57:17 < bitmask> yea diy
2021-05-04T20:57:36 < bitmask> it usually comes out okay... but it takes me all day :P
2021-05-04T20:57:44 < bitmask> i have to take breaks and go back to it :P
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2021-05-04T21:01:21 < BrainDamage> use your fingers to match the length
2021-05-04T21:01:22 < BrainDamage> it makes things much easier
2021-05-04T21:01:51 < bitmask> yea i do that, its the back and sides that are most difficult
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2021-05-04T21:02:30 < BrainDamage> exactly for the back, you stretch the strand on your finger and instantly get a feel for the length
2021-05-04T21:02:37 < bitmask> i just found out last year that I part my hair on the wrong side :P
2021-05-04T21:02:47 < bitmask> ohh i see
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2021-05-04T21:15:56 < mawk> I'm out of magic pillzzz Steffanx 
2021-05-04T21:16:01 < mawk> send me your cancer pain drugs
2021-05-04T21:16:20 < bitmask> Steffanx has cancer?
2021-05-04T21:16:24 < mawk> no
2021-05-04T21:16:32 < mawk> he stole them from someone with cancer
2021-05-04T21:16:33 < mawk> probably
2021-05-04T21:16:43 < mawk> he does this when he's in withdrawal crisis
2021-05-04T21:16:48 < bitmask> i see
2021-05-04T21:17:06 < mawk> my stepfather had cancer
2021-05-04T21:17:14 < mawk> and I took his cancer pills, but they were perempted
2021-05-04T21:17:18 < bitmask> i had cancer, my mother died from cancer
2021-05-04T21:17:19 < mawk> out of date of a few years
2021-05-04T21:17:29 < mawk> what kind did you have?
2021-05-04T21:17:32 < bitmask> testicular 
2021-05-04T21:17:40 < bitmask> so now i have one ball
2021-05-04T21:17:45 < mawk> like hitler
2021-05-04T21:17:51 < mawk> do you have good odds of not relapsing?
2021-05-04T21:17:55 < bitmask> we are one in the same
2021-05-04T21:18:22 < mawk> you had death ray treatment?
2021-05-04T21:18:24 < bitmask> shit i need to RO filter some water
2021-05-04T21:18:32 < bitmask> yea, radiation, no chemo
2021-05-04T21:18:35 < mawk> my grandfather was scheduled for radiotherapy for his bladder cancer
2021-05-04T21:18:50 < mawk> and they told him he'll have to piss into a bag through a probe after that
2021-05-04T21:18:58 < bitmask> made me pretty sick but didnt need it too long
2021-05-04T21:18:59 < mawk> so now he went with only chemo
2021-05-04T21:19:01 < BrainDamage> you can tap into the uniball fetish niche
2021-05-04T21:19:07 < mawk> lol
2021-05-04T21:19:09 < bitmask> ha
2021-05-04T21:19:54 < bitmask> i didnt have any permanent issues from radiation, just sick at the time of treatment
2021-05-04T21:19:59 < mawk> ah good
2021-05-04T21:20:05 < mawk> so no infertility either
2021-05-04T21:20:16 < bitmask> nope, though i dont want kids anyway
2021-05-04T21:20:19 < BrainDamage> well, half :p
2021-05-04T21:20:29 < bitmask> actually the other ball tends to make up for the lost one
2021-05-04T21:20:36 < bitmask> i heard anyway
2021-05-04T21:20:37 < ventyl> wtf
2021-05-04T21:20:44 < mawk> you have mutant sperms now
2021-05-04T21:20:46 < mawk> spidersperms
2021-05-04T21:20:48 < ventyl> this channel never stops surprising me
2021-05-04T21:20:52 < bitmask> haha
2021-05-04T21:21:16 < BrainDamage> if one suffices, now i wonder we evolved two
2021-05-04T21:21:26 < mawk> we need to be symmetric BrainDamage 
2021-05-04T21:21:27 < bitmask> symmetry
2021-05-04T21:21:30 < bitmask> heh
2021-05-04T21:21:30 < mawk> mostly
2021-05-04T21:21:40 < mawk> except internal organs for some reason
2021-05-04T21:21:40 < BrainDamage> hearth isn't
2021-05-04T21:21:44 < mawk> it's almost
2021-05-04T21:21:51 < mawk> just tilted a bit to the wrong side
2021-05-04T21:22:09 < BrainDamage> nope, the piping is asymmetric
2021-05-04T21:22:18 < mawk> it has rotational symmetry no?
2021-05-04T21:22:22 < mawk> that's good enough
2021-05-04T21:22:22 < BrainDamage> also, there's only 1
2021-05-04T21:22:42 < mawk> yeah but if there are two and they're at the same place it appears as one
2021-05-04T21:22:49 < ventyl> BrainDamage: apparently, it is more important to be able to spawn kids than to continue living
2021-05-04T21:23:00 < mawk> but you're not allowed to use the same argument against me because I thought of it first
2021-05-04T21:23:03 < mawk> laws of debate
2021-05-04T21:23:05 < ventyl> or maybe the reason was, that heart has actually quite good firewall
2021-05-04T21:23:05 < BrainDamage> from a survival pov ... it makes sense
2021-05-04T21:23:11 < ventyl> and balls are in DMZ
2021-05-04T21:23:31 < antto> quantum entanglement: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/76/59/4c7659eab77fa86ee447d7cb54fcb87b.gif
2021-05-04T21:23:36 < mawk> two hears would need synchronization or something
2021-05-04T21:23:53 < ventyl> check valves and pressure regulator would suffice
2021-05-04T21:23:56 < mawk> also two are not useful, make one big
2021-05-04T21:24:04 < ventyl> antto: :D
2021-05-04T21:24:06 < BrainDamage> balls are external because evolutionarly it was easier to put them outside than to evolve ttemp resisant sperm
2021-05-04T21:24:08 < mawk> probably two kidneys and two lungs are an anomaly
2021-05-04T21:24:22 < mawk> or maybe not because they can be redundant for each other
2021-05-04T21:24:45 < BrainDamage> you can live off 1 kidney and 1 lung
2021-05-04T21:24:54 < BrainDamage> badly, but you can
2021-05-04T21:24:58 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T21:25:14 < mawk> so they're redundant and evolved like that by accident
2021-05-04T21:25:19 < mawk> qed
2021-05-04T21:25:24 < BrainDamage> liver instead it's only 1, which is megastupid from a logic pov
2021-05-04T21:25:30 < ventyl> in case of lungs, it may actually be devolved
2021-05-04T21:25:36 < mawk> yeah but it's self healing for the liver
2021-05-04T21:25:39 < ventyl> birds have more complicated and efficient design of lungs
2021-05-04T21:25:39 < BrainDamage> it's capable to self regenerate
2021-05-04T21:25:47 < mawk> if you're not past liver failure
2021-05-04T21:26:04 < BrainDamage> yes, but it's fundamental, having two would ensure near always functionality
2021-05-04T21:26:15 < BrainDamage> having concurren failure modes is rare
2021-05-04T21:26:48 < BrainDamage> birbs also have a weirdly complicated airway to the bones
2021-05-04T21:26:52 < mawk> hm
2021-05-04T21:27:21 < ventyl> so do some motorbikes. old yamahas from 80s used portion of frame tubing for water lines
2021-05-04T21:27:24 < mawk> well liver failure means toxic accumulation in the blood, the pathway to the failed liver would have to close
2021-05-04T21:27:38 < mawk> like a valve that shuts off in failure
2021-05-04T21:27:43 < mawk> that's maybe hard to evolve
2021-05-04T21:29:51 < mawk> airway to the bones what for
2021-05-04T21:30:02 < BrainDamage> hollow bones
2021-05-04T21:30:08 < BrainDamage> they are lighter
2021-05-04T21:30:15 < BrainDamage> but need pressurization
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2021-05-04T21:30:51 < mawk> ah yes
2021-05-04T21:31:06 < mawk> where do they make their red blood cells
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2021-05-04T21:35:33 < BrainDamage> in the non hollow ones
2021-05-04T21:35:53 < BrainDamage> turns out we have some hollow bones too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_pneumaticity
2021-05-04T21:36:48 < bitmask> yummmm, this RO filter was an excellent purchase
2021-05-04T21:37:20 < BrainDamage> you like tasteless water?
2021-05-04T21:37:26 < bitmask> yes
2021-05-04T21:38:02 < bitmask> i have a calcite filter to add back some calcium if need be, havent tried it yet though
2021-05-04T21:38:20 < bitmask> heard its better for coffee/tea
2021-05-04T21:45:52 < mawk> omg why are stores closing early
2021-05-04T21:45:57 < mawk> what did you do effractur 
2021-05-04T21:46:26 < mawk> but they're pressurized BrainDamage right
2021-05-04T21:46:51 < mawk> only the lungs and the eardrum cavity are compressible
2021-05-04T21:46:52 < mawk> I thought
2021-05-04T21:46:53 < qyx> bitmask: better use it or you'll dissolve
2021-05-04T21:47:19 < bitmask> heh
2021-05-04T21:47:29 < mawk> eardrum and lungs are the two things you watch when diving if you don't want to die
2021-05-04T21:50:01 < BrainDamage> well, pressurized here means env pressure
2021-05-04T21:50:19 < BrainDamage> also, pretty sure eardrums and lungs are weaker than bone
2021-05-04T21:50:54 < mawk> hollow bone wouldn't be very strong
2021-05-04T21:51:01 < mawk> under a few atm
2021-05-04T21:51:05 < mawk> I suppose
2021-05-04T21:51:07 < BrainDamage> your whole body is pressurized at ambient pressure, your skin isn't har plastic
2021-05-04T21:51:30 < mawk> well the body is mostly fluid
2021-05-04T21:51:36 < mawk> so it's okay
2021-05-04T21:51:48 < mawk> fluid or solid
2021-05-04T21:51:57 < BrainDamage> if it's at the same pressure as the nose it's still the lungs blowing up faster than the nose
2021-05-04T21:52:19 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T21:52:24 < BrainDamage> when you dive the gas regulator gives you air at env pressure
2021-05-04T21:52:34 < mawk> but you control lung and eardrum pressure when diving
2021-05-04T21:52:38 < mawk> so you don't die
2021-05-04T21:52:40 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T21:52:51 < BrainDamage> you can't even breathe if theree's more than ~0.2 atm diff
2021-05-04T21:52:52 < mawk> otherwise you couldn't inflate your lungs anyway
2021-05-04T21:53:39 < BrainDamage> also, it's 1 atm every 10 m, recreational divers won't go lower than 40m
2021-05-04T21:53:51 < BrainDamage> and 30m is already pushing it
2021-05-04T21:54:03 < BrainDamage> you start getting nitrogen narcosis
2021-05-04T21:54:08 < Steffanx> fentanyl is somewhere in the house bitmask :P
2021-05-04T21:54:16 < BrainDamage> so you cannot breathe plain air
2021-05-04T21:54:29 < mawk> I have a card to breathe nitrox mix
2021-05-04T21:54:35 < bitmask> oh boy
2021-05-04T21:54:44 < Steffanx> from the 2nd wife of my grand father that died a long back. i bet its even over its due date.
2021-05-04T21:54:51 < Steffanx> *a long time back
2021-05-04T21:54:54 < mawk> with less nitrogen
2021-05-04T21:54:57 < Steffanx> i dont even know where it is
2021-05-04T21:55:03 < BrainDamage> get some carfentanyl, then go conquer a theatre in russia
2021-05-04T21:55:09 < mawk> lol
2021-05-04T21:55:23 < BrainDamage> i never bothered with nitrox
2021-05-04T21:55:53 < Steffanx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil#/media/File:Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people.jpg lol
2021-05-04T21:56:11 < mawk> I dived on meth or analogue once
2021-05-04T21:56:16 < mawk> and I did something stupid
2021-05-04T21:56:48 < mawk> for some reason I wanted to go back to surface asap and not do any waitings at -3m
2021-05-04T21:57:11 < mawk> so I did it, but then the instructor grabbed me and put me at the waiting level
2021-05-04T21:57:54 < mawk> I was ascending with my right arm first, and it felt funny for a month or two after that
2021-05-04T21:57:56 < mawk> like tingling
2021-05-04T21:58:07 < mawk> it was in a pool
2021-05-04T21:58:49 < mawk> but I never died as evidented by my presence here
2021-05-04T21:58:51 < BrainDamage> if your instructor was as throrough as mine, the schedule was for no wait, but you did one extra anyway as precaution
2021-05-04T21:59:23 < mawk> also it's not just no wait, but the ascending speed I recall
2021-05-04T21:59:25 < BrainDamage> we've been always doing 1 extra acclimation than necessary
2021-05-04T21:59:27 < mawk> that was most problematic
2021-05-04T21:59:34 < mawk> I was just ascending as fast as possible
2021-05-04T21:59:43 < mawk> while normally I ascend at the speed of small bubbles
2021-05-04T22:00:00 < BrainDamage> that's common with new subs
2021-05-04T22:00:13 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:00:14 < BrainDamage> the tank gets 5-10kg lighter
2021-05-04T22:00:32 < mawk> but I was not new at the time, just high
2021-05-04T22:00:44 < BrainDamage> and unless you're careful with the compensator, you end up blowing upwards
2021-05-04T22:00:44 < mawk> I don't remember the levels I did, some in french system and some in PADI
2021-05-04T22:00:53 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:00:54 < BrainDamage> esa?
2021-05-04T22:01:12 < mawk> what's that?
2021-05-04T22:01:21 < BrainDamage> euroean scuba agency
2021-05-04T22:01:28 < BrainDamage> the eu equivalent of padi
2021-05-04T22:01:38 < BrainDamage> but less recognized worldwide
2021-05-04T22:02:01 < mawk>  https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plongeur_niveau_2
2021-05-04T22:02:05 < BrainDamage> I went with esa because my univ paid 75% of the price :p
2021-05-04T22:02:05 < mawk> I had this I think
2021-05-04T22:02:19 < mawk> and also padi advanced
2021-05-04T22:02:21 < mawk> with the nitrox
2021-05-04T22:02:36 < mawk> yeah the padi stuff is expensive
2021-05-04T22:02:42 < BrainDamage> mmm, with esa you can get nitrox before advanced
2021-05-04T22:02:52 < mawk> I did them separately
2021-05-04T22:02:58 < mawk> advanced and nitrox
2021-05-04T22:03:35 < BrainDamage> yeah, but some things are prerequisites
2021-05-04T22:03:41 < mawk> I was diving in the Réunion island
2021-05-04T22:03:50 < mawk> hot water, cool fishes, dolphins and sharks
2021-05-04T22:03:53 < BrainDamage> eg you cannot get cave diving specialization wih esa unless you're a rescue sub level
2021-05-04T22:03:55 < mawk> but it's expensive to go there
2021-05-04T22:04:02 < mawk> ah yes
2021-05-04T22:04:31 < mawk> after that in France it was either in pool, or thr cold britanny waters with 1m visibility and brown water full of algae
2021-05-04T22:04:39 < mawk> so, just in pool for me
2021-05-04T22:04:43 < mawk> and then I stopped
2021-05-04T22:04:55 < BrainDamage> I dived in the lakes around here, some places in croatia, and in liguria
2021-05-04T22:05:11 < BrainDamage> the lakes are clean, but stupidly coldd
2021-05-04T22:05:12 < mawk> water must be hotter there at least
2021-05-04T22:05:24 < mawk> have you dived with the dry suit?
2021-05-04T22:05:27 < mawk> that sounds cool
2021-05-04T22:05:34 < BrainDamage> no, too expensive
2021-05-04T22:06:04 < BrainDamage> semi-sealed wetsuit
2021-05-04T22:06:24 < BrainDamage> with the zip seal, etc
2021-05-04T22:06:26 < mawk> maybe a thick one works good enough for heat
2021-05-04T22:06:28 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:06:55 < mawk> this was the most annoying part of it all, getting dressed
2021-05-04T22:06:58 < BrainDamage> you have seals at extremities, hands, etc, so the heat loss is considerably smaller
2021-05-04T22:07:12 < mawk> with the suit super tight on the skin, near impossible to remove
2021-05-04T22:07:17 < mawk> ah yeah
2021-05-04T22:07:20 < BrainDamage> to me was dragging 20+kg of gear down th stairs
2021-05-04T22:07:34 < mawk> ah yes that to y
2021-05-04T22:07:37 < mawk> too*
2021-05-04T22:07:40 < mawk> heavy stuff
2021-05-04T22:07:57 < mawk> also danger of dying and all
2021-05-04T22:08:04 < mawk> but people don't care about that
2021-05-04T22:08:37 < BrainDamage> I've almost drowned once, by my own stupidity, in the ... practice swimming pool
2021-05-04T22:09:21 < mawk> people were around?
2021-05-04T22:09:24 < mawk> what happened
2021-05-04T22:09:31 < BrainDamage> the mouthpiece of the breathing tube you use on surface to save on tank air, mine had a valve to easily blow out the water
2021-05-04T22:09:51 < mawk> I never had to use the emergency mouthpiece of someone, nor give mine to someone
2021-05-04T22:10:02 < BrainDamage> I didn't bother checking it, and the valve was stuck open
2021-05-04T22:10:13 < BrainDamage> i took a full breathe of water in my lungs
2021-05-04T22:10:14 < mawk> ah
2021-05-04T22:10:18 < mawk> so water flowing in
2021-05-04T22:10:19 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:10:24 < mawk> that sounds painful
2021-05-04T22:10:25 < BrainDamage> couldn't spit it out
2021-05-04T22:10:27 < mawk> especially pool water
2021-05-04T22:10:35 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:10:39 < mawk> awful
2021-05-04T22:11:03 < BrainDamage> I had to drag myself to the border, put my head lower than my body and cough it out
2021-05-04T22:11:38 < BrainDamage> also impossible to speak with your lungs full of water turns out
2021-05-04T22:11:55 < mawk> nobody saw you splashing your arms around?
2021-05-04T22:11:56 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-04T22:12:08 < mawk> drowning is an awful death
2021-05-04T22:12:28 < BrainDamage> yes, but didn't undersand for shit and though I was just a sucky swimmer
2021-05-04T22:12:57 < BrainDamage> only when they saw me pulling out and coughing they realized
2021-05-04T22:13:26 < mawk> lame lifeguard
2021-05-04T22:14:00 < BrainDamage> also, I can confirm that the weird gasping you hear in movies it's spot on
2021-05-04T22:14:48 < BrainDamage> unrelated: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/548641893760630824/839188682308583494/image0.png
2021-05-04T22:15:51 < Steffanx> Random related talk: i always understand after the struggle dying by drowning is rather peaceful.
2021-05-04T22:16:06 < Xogium> I doubt that
2021-05-04T22:16:15 < Xogium> I think it would hurt a lot actually
2021-05-04T22:17:20 < BrainDamage> if you're drowing by hyperventilation hypooxia, it's peaceful
2021-05-04T22:17:48 < BrainDamage> our bodies are dumb, they measure co2, not o2
2021-05-04T22:18:06 < BrainDamage> if you hyperventilate, you deplete co2 much faster, yet o2 concentration remains more or less the same
2021-05-04T22:18:30 < BrainDamage> so you can end up oxygen starved and not feel a thing other than being drowsy
2021-05-04T22:19:50 < BrainDamage> as in, if you stop breathing after a hyperventilation session, intentional or not, you cannot use your urge to breahe as gauge for your reserves
2021-05-04T22:21:26 < BrainDamage> it's also why co poisoning is bastardly subtle, it binds to red blood cells and never unbinds, making them useless
2021-05-04T22:21:36 < BrainDamage> and you won't notice a thing
2021-05-04T22:21:46 < BrainDamage> I have a friend that died that way
2021-05-04T22:22:10 < BrainDamage> just because wind was blowing on the water heater's exaust
2021-05-04T22:27:27 < Steffanx> S:
2021-05-04T22:27:29 < Steffanx> :S
2021-05-04T22:29:47 < qyx> you should notice dizziness and headache
2021-05-04T22:31:08 < BrainDamage> it's undistinguishable from being tired
2021-05-04T22:31:48 < BrainDamage> and you're unconscious 2-3 min after you notice the symptoms
2021-05-04T22:32:12 < BrainDamage> so the margin is really narrow
2021-05-04T22:39:29 < qyx> depends on the ppm
2021-05-04T22:39:32 < qyx> but yeah
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2021-05-04T22:50:01 < skz81> <antto> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/0e/1b/fe0e1bf2e90482a81f558cca84fdc9ad.gif >> Lulz ! Pet the White Monster on my behalf :)
2021-05-04T22:50:39 < antto> don't know where she is right now
2021-05-04T22:55:50 < Steffanx> find here.
2021-05-04T22:55:51 < Steffanx> her.
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2021-05-04T22:59:26 < Laurenceb> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/72617/s300_Cradlehall.jpg
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2021-05-04T23:40:15 < jadew> BrainDamage, that's the same guy that went on a live show made by some 15 yo kids and got cornered, then made a copyright claim on their video and took it down from youtube
2021-05-04T23:40:35 < jadew> he lost a debate with a kid
2021-05-04T23:41:03 < jadew> (about his own policies - on free speech of all things)
2021-05-04T23:41:18 < jadew> and then he went on and did everything he could to censor them
2021-05-04T23:41:43 < jadew> yeah, I think drinking your own piss on instagram is a good indication that you're an idiot
2021-05-04T23:43:04 < jadew> I mean, sure, do that if you must, I don't care, but the act of broadcasting it to a judgemental world when you have political aspirations, tells me you're a moron
--- Day changed Wed May 05 2021
2021-05-05T00:24:17 < englishman> is steffy a junky
2021-05-05T00:24:39 < tct> yeah, Steffanx is really into drugs - big times
2021-05-05T00:24:57 < tct> when he visited me he left earlier than planned to get back to dutchland to fix himself up as he couldn´t find decent drugs around here.
2021-05-05T00:25:18 < englishman> probably the language gap
2021-05-05T00:25:33 < englishman> or did he use all the drugs in swissland...?
2021-05-05T00:26:31 < tct> nah honestly. I actually feel kinda bad  about this hole visitation thing. steffanx took the time to travel etc. and the weather was just shit.
2021-05-05T00:26:44 < Steffanx> I remember it differently indeed :P
2021-05-05T00:26:46 < tct> and this is the part of switzerland that claims to have 300 days of sun
2021-05-05T00:26:57 < Steffanx> Shit happens 
2021-05-05T00:26:58 < englishman> that's ok, some people have that curse
2021-05-05T00:27:19 < tct> Steffanx, I honestly hope that we can repeat that at one point - under better circumstances and also with a less overworked tct (and less overworked BrainDamage?)
2021-05-05T00:27:28 < Steffanx> To replace me you found yourself a dutch gf, tct :D
2021-05-05T00:27:36 < tct> Steffanx :D
2021-05-05T00:27:51 < tct> thank you for introducing my best friend to irc tho.... bastard.
2021-05-05T00:27:52 < Steffanx> Hah sure tct. When all the covid is gone 
2021-05-05T00:28:29 < Steffanx> But never again to swisserland by train. Most awful travel experience. German trains 
2021-05-05T00:28:44 < englishman> yeah they suck
2021-05-05T00:28:48 < englishman> you arrive 5 minutes late and they are gone!
2021-05-05T00:29:00 < Steffanx> ICE was great, great luxury
2021-05-05T00:29:00 < englishman> no empathy
2021-05-05T00:29:33 < tct> hell yeah fuck german trains
2021-05-05T00:29:51 < tct> germans lost their right of getting empathy a long while ago :p
2021-05-05T00:29:51 < Steffanx> The other train (IC) was awful. Wouldnt even do that to the jews
2021-05-05T00:30:07 < tct> well, this is some serious old-time content right here :p
2021-05-05T00:30:42 < Steffanx> So tct, how did you do that thing with your car?
2021-05-05T00:31:07 < tct> well
2021-05-05T00:31:13 < tct> I drove it onto a wall
2021-05-05T00:32:08 < Steffanx> How.. 
2021-05-05T00:32:15 < tct> backwards?
2021-05-05T00:32:18 < Steffanx> I dont do that usually
2021-05-05T00:32:49 < Steffanx> Oh only teslas have auto parking
2021-05-05T00:38:07 < englishman> i tried the mustang mach E on friday
2021-05-05T00:38:08 < englishman> p nice
2021-05-05T00:40:11 < tct> Steffanx, here´s an additional view: https://ibb.co/BTzCn6z
2021-05-05T00:43:37 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-05T00:45:00 < tct> did Steffanx get vaccinated yet?
2021-05-05T00:45:18 < Steffanx> Nope. Not even close to my turn
2021-05-05T00:46:13 < Steffanx> Unless someone decides that the asthma I had as a kid is a reason to get it earlier that other people of my age
2021-05-05T00:46:20 < Steffanx> Than*
2021-05-05T00:46:43 < tct> wasn´t there some thing about common asthma medicine having a very positive and notable effect on the recovery?
2021-05-05T00:46:47 < Steffanx> I got an invitation for the yearly flu vaccine due to that once, but never went
2021-05-05T00:47:39 < Steffanx> I recall there was something about that yes
2021-05-05T00:51:25 < englishman> don't the morbidly obese get priority?
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2021-05-05T00:53:04 < Steffanx> Yes those too englishman 
2021-05-05T00:53:37 < qyx> we are vaccinating all of 16+ age now
2021-05-05T00:54:01 < Steffanx> Did you buy a vaccine with your buttcoin yet, englishman ?
2021-05-05T00:54:18 < englishman> no but it looks like i'll get mine before the end of the month
2021-05-05T00:54:29 < englishman> as a healthy white male and an essential worker i am last in line
2021-05-05T00:55:51 < qyx> lora pros, did you see those johannson tech rf baluns/match/whatever circuits?
2021-05-05T00:56:53 < qyx> https://johansontechnology.com/johanson-releases-front-end-integrated-passive-for-semtech-s-sx1261-sx1262-and-llcc68-chipsets
2021-05-05T00:56:57 < qyx> kawaii
2021-05-05T01:26:03 < bitmask>  boioioioioing
2021-05-05T01:26:42 < bitmask> there aint enuff hours in the day
2021-05-05T01:26:48 < bitmask> what you peeps up to
2021-05-05T01:29:53 < _unreal_> trying to get GRBL built for my OLIMEXINO-STM32
2021-05-05T01:30:08 < bitmask> for your laser etcher?
2021-05-05T01:31:56 < _unreal_> yep
2021-05-05T01:32:03 < bitmask> cool
2021-05-05T01:32:13 < _unreal_> the goal is to replace the arduino uno. with the olimexino because it has the same foot print
2021-05-05T01:32:24 < _unreal_> I just suck at coding
2021-05-05T01:35:47 < bitmask> man i need to get better at making enclosures
2021-05-05T01:50:47 < _unreal_> bitmask, https://photos.app.goo.gl/GvprVxFfbKAWY7VR7
2021-05-05T01:50:50 < _unreal_> I built that too 
2021-05-05T01:56:33 < bitmask> nice
2021-05-05T01:57:13 < bitmask> i cut out some panels but im not sure how I want to connect them, I'm thinking of just 3d printing some cubes and screw into that
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2021-05-05T02:15:23 < bitmask> who farted
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2021-05-05T02:27:39 < bitmask> i probably should have bought right angle jst connectors...
2021-05-05T02:31:27 -!- dan2wik [dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-05-05T02:31:49 < tct> and I should not live with a dog.
2021-05-05T02:34:01 < _unreal_> bitmask, I have piles of those
2021-05-05T02:34:31 < _unreal_> I'm about to mill my ctrl board for the PWM control of dual fans, and the air compressor for my laser etcher
2021-05-05T02:34:33 < bitmask> i just bought more connectors but only straight, didnt think to get right angle
2021-05-05T02:34:37 < _unreal_> when I get this bad boy done FINALLY
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2021-05-05T02:34:53 < _unreal_> I'll be able to control my fans on my laser etcher
2021-05-05T02:34:56 < _unreal_> it will be nice
2021-05-05T02:35:13 < _unreal_> it wil be manual control for now till I get the code finished for the arduino attiny85
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2021-05-05T03:44:25 < englishman> https://www.wsj.com/articles/berkshire-hathaways-stock-price-is-too-much-for-computers-11620168548
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2021-05-05T04:39:26 < bitmask> i am so rusty at pcb layout
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2021-05-05T07:28:59 < machinehum> Should I generate two seperate Vref's with two seperate voltage dividers (one near the fpga and other near the RAM) or should they share. DDR3 BTW
2021-05-05T08:04:06 < qyx> what does s ref sch say?
2021-05-05T08:08:20 < R2COM> wow I might permanently switch to vifm
2021-05-05T08:08:31 < R2COM> this file manager is just great
2021-05-05T08:16:12 < jpa-> machinehum: if you are going with voltage divider instead of an actual reference regulator, i'd definitely want to share the same vref; because it will never be quite exact and will vary with load
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2021-05-05T08:32:20 < zyp> don't you need a regulator for the termination voltage anyway? IIRC they usually have a reference output as well
2021-05-05T08:33:29 < zyp> e.g. something like TPS51200
2021-05-05T08:34:00 < jpa-> and as always, just steal dev board schematics :)
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2021-05-05T08:40:14 < R2COM> i find it that some programs really work much better in unix world, even though they exist for win10 too
2021-05-05T08:41:56 < jpa-> not sure about unix, but at least open source stuff gets most testing and development on linux
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2021-05-05T09:06:17 < ventyl> is it the same R2COM who was bithing at !windows on desktop like two months ago?
2021-05-05T09:14:48 < Steffanx> Sure ventyl 
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2021-05-05T09:45:38 < ventyl> lunar_astronaut--
2021-05-05T09:47:13 < Xogium> sigh, damn me and my too tactile self. I shorted 2 pins together on a board just now because I have the stupid reflex to touch the pcb
2021-05-05T09:51:39 < PaulFertser> But bare finger doesn't short anything if we're talking low voltage.
2021-05-05T09:51:46 < Xogium> sometimes there are days why I wonder why I bother using boards lol
2021-05-05T09:53:03 < Xogium> PaulFertser: well I'm not quite sure what's going on but I somehow managed to send one hell of a static electricity shock into it, even with one of those grounding wristband
2021-05-05T09:53:34 < PaulFertser> Xogium: now it sounds even weirder!
2021-05-05T09:53:55 < Xogium> yeah, I know right ? I've always had weird stuff with electronics and electricity
2021-05-05T09:54:47 < PaulFertser> Probably the wristband is not really connected to ground?
2021-05-05T09:55:15 < Streaker> Or it is connected directly to ground (without a current limiting resistor)
2021-05-05T09:55:22 < Xogium> I litterally made 3 microwaves bug in a few months apart from each other, the first two had no longer any kind of hold off timer and powered on as soon as you closed the door, and didn't stop till you opened it, the third I was making popcorn and the rotating glass plater litterally broke into two clean pieces down the midle
2021-05-05T09:56:24 < Xogium> and a few months ago I broke another, I just put my hand on the top of it while it was heating up my chocolate milk and heard 'dzzzz'. Breaker went off, and microwave just never worked right again, only thing that worked fine was the light inside
2021-05-05T09:57:51 < Xogium> so now most people I know rl nicknamed me electronic killer or well, microwave killer for some
2021-05-05T09:58:11 < ventyl> electreaper
2021-05-05T09:58:15 < Xogium> but I can even make computers crash in weird ways if I get too angry and touch them sometimes
2021-05-05T09:59:18 < Xogium> yeah, quite litterally…
2021-05-05T09:59:50 < Xogium> the weirdest computer crash I had was that at one moment my odroid c2 was working fine, then out of nowhere every command I tried to run on it gave 'ExecFormat error'
2021-05-05T10:00:04 < Xogium> even shutdown so I had to power it off the hard way
2021-05-05T10:00:48 < PaulFertser> Streaker: if it was connected directly to GND it would be dangerous for the human to wear but would surely prevent ESD.
2021-05-05T10:00:51 < Xogium> I powered it back up, managed to log in, and then it started up again with this error. I powered it down again, booted it back up, and the issue was gone
2021-05-05T10:01:10 < Streaker> PaulFertser: and blow up the chip through which the current discharged.
2021-05-05T10:02:00 < Xogium> I still haven,t figured out what happened with that one
2021-05-05T10:02:12 < PaulFertser> Streaker: no, your skin wouldn't have any charge so there wouldn't be any discharge
2021-05-05T10:02:39 < Streaker> Sometimes the pcb has a static charge. You touch a pin on a chip and that charge discharges through your wriststrap.
2021-05-05T10:02:54 < Streaker> If there's no limiting resistor, it can blow up the chip.
2021-05-05T10:03:17 < PaulFertser> How can I make a PCB gain static charge to test if this is possible?
2021-05-05T10:03:19 < Xogium> I didn't know that, but that sort of makes sense
2021-05-05T10:03:39 < Xogium> PaulFertser: you should ask me to come over, pretty sure I could manage
2021-05-05T10:03:40 < Xogium> lol
2021-05-05T10:04:35 < Streaker> Wear cotton pants and sit on a plastic chair.
2021-05-05T10:04:38 < Xogium> more seriously, I don't know. All my annoying electronics issues like this one just now happened litterally with no control
2021-05-05T10:05:28 < Xogium> ah, cotton should work
2021-05-05T10:06:50 < Streaker> Or if you're the fashionable type maybe you have some polyester pants in your collection.
2021-05-05T10:07:09 < PaulFertser> Streaker: I know how to gain static charge on myself. I want to try doing that so that the PCB would have it without me touching.
2021-05-05T10:07:40 < Streaker> Well I suppose if you have the PCB on your lap while you do this, the PCB will get charged too.
2021-05-05T10:08:17 < Xogium> polyester vests too, that works
2021-05-05T10:09:29 < Xogium> my poor braille display from school is a proof of this… They didn't protect it and I kept discharging a ton of static electricity right into it, and most likely charging it up as well, because the sleeves of the polyester vest were always in contact with it
2021-05-05T10:09:44 < Xogium> poor thing kept disconnecting and crashing
2021-05-05T10:09:58 < Streaker> What is a braille display?
2021-05-05T10:10:22 < Xogium> Streaker: allows to read the screen as braille one line at a time for blind people
2021-05-05T10:11:07 < Xogium> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_braille_display
2021-05-05T10:12:34 < mawk> why just one line at a time?
2021-05-05T10:12:46 < Streaker> mawk: only one line of fingers 
2021-05-05T10:12:57 < Xogium> mawk: too expensive to do it if you keep uisng piezo, for multiple lines
2021-05-05T10:13:13 < Xogium> mawk: 80 characters is already about $8000 these days
2021-05-05T10:13:21 < mawk> you read faster with several lines Streaker 
2021-05-05T10:13:45 < Streaker> does that apply to reading by touch?
2021-05-05T10:13:54 < mawk> because you wait less for the next line and stuff, no idea how the refresh is triggered but it's probably manual I suppose
2021-05-05T10:14:21 < Xogium> also they keep not mass producing the cells, having specific cells for each model of display so that using good cells from an otherwise dead display in a still functioning one with bad cells is often impossible
2021-05-05T10:15:21 < Streaker> The way I read, I keep jumping back and forward in the text because I forget the previous line when I read the next line. Sometimes I finish a paragraph and can't remember what I just read so I have to go back and repeat the paragraph. I can't imagine what torture that would be with a braille reader.
2021-05-05T10:15:41 < Xogium> yes refresh is manual and done when you do an action like press down arrow for example, or do the equivalent button on the braille display itself
2021-05-05T10:16:39 < Streaker> Xogium: how fast can a speed reader read on a braille display?
2021-05-05T10:16:40 < Xogium> most piezo ones are fairly fast and a complete refresh of the 40 or 80 cells is performed in under half a sec
2021-05-05T10:17:37 < Xogium> I'm not too sure myself, as I never actually did that test. But multi line for reading books is a lot better
2021-05-05T10:18:19 < Xogium> there's the first multi-line display, the canute 360. It was specifically created to read books, and probably has a slower refresh rate than the traditional ones
2021-05-05T10:18:41 < Xogium> it doesn't use piezo either, that's why they still manage to sell it for about $4000 iirc
2021-05-05T10:19:05 < Xogium> 360 comes from the fact it has 360 characters
2021-05-05T10:19:15 < Xogium> 9 lines of 40 cells
2021-05-05T10:19:50 < Xogium> I don't even want to imagine the cost it would be at, had they used piezo
2021-05-05T10:21:17 < Xogium> well, given that 80 cells is already $8000
2021-05-05T10:21:37 < Xogium> around $16000 for 160 characters x.x
2021-05-05T10:22:43 < ventyl> how large one cell is? physically
2021-05-05T10:23:38 < Xogium> but yeah, the fact they keep not mass producing them certainly doesn't help the cost, and also the fact they keep making sure you can't use cells from other models of even the same brands or from a different brand in a display makes repair supremely annoying, and impossible a few years after the model of display you got is no longer produced
2021-05-05T10:23:47 < Xogium> hmm
2021-05-05T10:24:37 < Xogium> not sure, as I never saw the insides of a display, but I think it is something like 20x10 mm
2021-05-05T10:25:18 < Xogium> or maybe in reverse lol I have trouble with dimentions
2021-05-05T10:25:36 < Xogium> but yeah not much bigger than that I think
2021-05-05T10:27:07 < Xogium> and, yep. Opening one of these up require you to be careful, as its full of capacitors that can actually be dangerous. I think they write 'risk of shock hasard' on the back of them, for sighted folks
2021-05-05T10:29:23 < Xogium> they are also a b**** to clean up when they get dirty inside, and they sure do because you can't keep your fingers 100000% clean all the time, dust particles get in, etc.
2021-05-05T10:29:53 < Xogium> you have to take them entirely apart, and clean the cells in an ultrasonic bath
2021-05-05T10:30:33 < ventyl> it seems that there were attempts to make these in an opensource fashion
2021-05-05T10:30:43 < ventyl> hackaday contains some design attempt
2021-05-05T10:43:24 < Xogium> ventyl: yep
2021-05-05T10:43:45 < Xogium> canute is apparently open source, but I think only their firmware is
2021-05-05T10:43:57 < Xogium> so no open hardware
2021-05-05T10:44:44 < Xogium> but its good that some folks do try to design open ones. I'd do so but I lack too much knowledge despite knowing a bit how they work
2021-05-05T10:45:31 < ventyl> it seems that internals are not a rocket science
2021-05-05T10:45:52 < Xogium> I really would have to try a super thin silicone on top of the display so it doesn't make the cells dirty over time, but doesn't prevent you from reading either
2021-05-05T10:46:00 < ventyl> I expected that it is mechanically close to the visible size of the cell, but it is much, much, MUCH larger
2021-05-05T10:46:20 < Xogium> really ?
2021-05-05T10:46:30 < Xogium> *silicone, I meant
2021-05-05T10:47:17 < ventyl> at least designs I've seen, which claim using piezo, run 3 or 4 times larger than the height of touchable portion of cell
2021-05-05T10:47:24 < Xogium> wow
2021-05-05T10:47:33 < Xogium> big indeed
2021-05-05T10:48:18 < Xogium> but yeah I mean, its piezo so it's not rocket science like you say
2021-05-05T10:48:31 < ventyl> even the rest of mechanics
2021-05-05T10:48:37 < ventyl> reminds me of ENIAC
2021-05-05T10:48:45 < Xogium> it's just made in a way that makes it ultra difficult to buy one, let alone care for it
2021-05-05T10:49:30 < ventyl> how firm "dot" holds in place once raised? does it flex (a lot), or its position is held firmly?
2021-05-05T10:49:35 < Xogium> does it justify the outrageous price of about $8000 for 80 cells ? I'd tend to say no, but
2021-05-05T10:50:06 < Xogium> rather flexible, you can litterally force them back in if you press hard enough with your finger, but once you release it comes back up
2021-05-05T10:50:33 < ventyl> i thought so, based on what i've seen. so there is no unobvious magic behind it
2021-05-05T10:50:55 < Xogium> I'd personally rather have it be not flexible
2021-05-05T10:51:06 < Xogium> but that's just me, maybe others prefer flexible
2021-05-05T10:51:21 < ventyl> that's more like HW design constraint
2021-05-05T10:51:35 < Xogium> hmm, I see
2021-05-05T10:51:37 < ventyl> there is some "micro stepper motor" design, which would make them completely rigid
2021-05-05T10:51:58 < ventyl> but even that seems to be overengineered
2021-05-05T10:52:20 < Xogium> yeah, well… It's so-called assistive tech
2021-05-05T10:52:28 < Xogium> I'm not surprised, tbh
2021-05-05T10:53:12 < Xogium> small market, they can do whatever they please
2021-05-05T10:54:55 < Xogium> its like that thing I saw, called orcam. It sounds nice on paper, really, its some kind of device for people with still some vision left, allows to do face recognition, ocr reading of labels and documents, interpreteing some gestures such as you turning your wrist to look at your watch and giving you the time
2021-05-05T10:55:03 < Xogium> in practice however…
2021-05-05T10:55:13 < ventyl> $100 per cell of that ridiculously primitive construction is simply too much even if it was made in quantities of like hundreds per year
2021-05-05T10:55:53 < Xogium> it is horribly innacurate, slow, battery lasts about 1.5 hour, heats up a bit and that can be rather uncomfortable on glasses. And costs $4750
2021-05-05T10:56:24 < mawk> maybe it's hard to have the right tolerances and they reject 90% of them at the factory ventyl 
2021-05-05T10:57:03 < ventyl> that cell is so large that even drunk russian would be able to make one within tolerances
2021-05-05T10:57:11 < Xogium> LOL
2021-05-05T10:57:18 < ventyl> using vodka and hammer
2021-05-05T10:58:29 < ventyl> dot printer from early '80s is goddamn precision mechanics compared to this
2021-05-05T10:59:00 < Xogium> but yep, its products like orcam that disgusts me, costs a ton for worse than bad performance, but hey ! They were the first ones making that sort of design, so surely it gives them the right to sell at outrageously high price, no ?
2021-05-05T10:59:13 < Xogium> yeah I'm being sarcastic don't worry lol
2021-05-05T10:59:47 < Xogium> ventyl: haha, try looking at braille embosser next ;) curious if you can find how they are designed, even a bit
2021-05-05T11:00:12 < Xogium> that's the so-called equivalent of a printer
2021-05-05T11:01:05 < Xogium> a personal one is not under $5000. Industrial ones can go as high as $128000
2021-05-05T11:02:15 < Xogium> if you somehow manage to find one for less than that, congra :D
2021-05-05T11:02:26 < Xogium> and its probably someone selling theirs
2021-05-05T11:03:32 < ventyl> does it make holes into paper, or bumps into some rather special foil?
2021-05-05T11:03:59 < Xogium> holes into paper. Not ordinary paper mind you, its a bit thicker than your usual paper
2021-05-05T11:04:13 < Xogium> but yeah
2021-05-05T11:04:19 < ventyl> understood, it would be hard to feel holes in typical A4 paper
2021-05-05T11:04:40 < Xogium> well not just that, but you risk tearing it more than anything I think
2021-05-05T11:05:18 < Xogium> some of them can do recto-verso so both side of the paper end up with braille dots
2021-05-05T11:05:36 < Xogium> not sure how exactly they manage that, but must not be that difficult
2021-05-05T11:07:46 < Xogium> I think its probably close to the braille typewriter like the perkin brailler
2021-05-05T11:08:00 < Xogium> except that one is manual and the other fully automatic and can move faster
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2021-05-05T11:17:58 < ventyl> i don't see why it should be so expensive
2021-05-05T11:23:17 < Xogium> ventyl: right, me neither
2021-05-05T11:23:27 < Xogium> especially not the 128000 usd one lol
2021-05-05T11:24:18 < ventyl> I wonder if there are any special certifications such kind of device might need
2021-05-05T11:24:34 < ventyl> which could make it prohibitively expensive
2021-05-05T11:31:58 < Xogium> hmm hard to say
2021-05-05T11:32:14 < Xogium> since they are so unwilling to talk about it and keep it all to themselves
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2021-05-05T14:31:47 < jadew> anyone got one of these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/363382251143
2021-05-05T14:33:04 < jadew> english link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402598642364
2021-05-05T14:33:19 < jadew> and there's also this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/383105944130
2021-05-05T14:33:50 < jadew> this too: https://www.ebay.com/itm/383447572404
2021-05-05T14:34:44 < ventyl> junktec?
2021-05-05T14:37:09 < jadew> looks like it
2021-05-05T14:37:31 < jadew> but it might be good enough to use for testing things you wouldn't normally connect to a good sig gen
2021-05-05T14:37:41 < jadew> like a 100 W transceiver
2021-05-05T14:37:41 < Streaker> such as?
2021-05-05T14:38:14 < ventyl> well, I have chinesium oscilloscope and given its price it is quite good deal. I would buy it again
2021-05-05T14:38:24 < ventyl> but the SW tends to be crap
2021-05-05T14:38:53 < ventyl> all those seem to be the same device just with a little bit different input layout
2021-05-05T14:39:30 < jadew> which scope do you have?
2021-05-05T14:39:42 < ventyl> DS203
2021-05-05T14:41:53 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324461597162
2021-05-05T14:41:56 < jadew> this one?
2021-05-05T14:43:02 < ventyl> well, yes. just a hint: this auction is for silicon sleeve, not the scope itself ;)
2021-05-05T14:44:14 < jadew> ah
2021-05-05T14:44:48 < jadew> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122029081607
2021-05-05T14:44:55 < jadew> that's not cheap...
2021-05-05T14:45:07 < jadew> why didn't you get a DS1054E?
2021-05-05T14:45:15 < jadew> I think even the Z is close in price now
2021-05-05T14:45:20 < ventyl> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274719746215?hash=item3ff692a8a7:g:iaQAAOSwOZJgTfbG
2021-05-05T14:46:06 < ventyl> was DS1054E available ~12 years ago?
2021-05-05T14:46:24 < jadew> not sure
2021-05-05T14:46:26 < jadew> maybe?
2021-05-05T14:46:42 < jadew> that's when you got that scope?
2021-05-05T14:46:51 < ventyl> yes
2021-05-05T14:47:11 < jadew> well, then maybe it's not that bad of a deal
2021-05-05T14:47:14 < ventyl> it was $200 + tax + import duty
2021-05-05T14:47:32 < ventyl> ~250E IIRC
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2021-05-05T14:48:47 < jadew> surprisingly enough, I don't have a lot of gear like that and my wife thinks I'm cheap
2021-05-05T14:49:19 < jadew> and I think she's right lol
2021-05-05T14:50:07 < ventyl> while I am more of SW guy than HW guy, I tend to buy cheapo stuff
2021-05-05T14:50:09 < jadew> but I think it has value in particular scenarios, which is why I'm eyeballing those sig gens
2021-05-05T14:50:28 < ventyl> I will rarely benefit from added value of more pricey stuff
2021-05-05T14:52:16 < jadew> it's not about the added value for me, I just don't want unreliable stuff
2021-05-05T14:52:42 < jadew> debugging weird issues is hard enough in itself, you don't want to add the uncertainty of misbehaving equipment
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2021-05-05T14:54:19 < jadew> one important thing all those cheap products skimp on is connectors
2021-05-05T14:54:49 < jadew> a bad connector can ruin days if not more
2021-05-05T14:54:49 < ventyl> chinesium oscilloscope still works
2021-05-05T14:55:03 < ventyl> one probe intermittently acts as if there was broken wire somewhere
2021-05-05T14:55:09 < jadew> heh
2021-05-05T14:55:18 < ventyl> but I wouldn't be surprised if it really broke after 10 years
2021-05-05T14:55:42 < jadew> it does look fairly well made
2021-05-05T14:55:58 < jadew> now they just sandwitch two PCBs and done
2021-05-05T14:56:32 < jadew> oh, it uses SMB connectors?
2021-05-05T14:56:33 < ventyl> it is some generic opensource design which was made under dozens of different brands
2021-05-05T14:56:58 < jadew> well, it doesn't look bad
2021-05-05T14:57:33 < ventyl> electrical characteristics are poor, but it works quite well for lo-fi signal capture
2021-05-05T14:57:59 < ventyl> and I've actually used the feature, that it is portable
2021-05-05T14:58:17 < jadew> yeah, I could have used that as well
2021-05-05T14:59:04 < jadew> I remember taking my scope to one of my teacher's lab
2021-05-05T14:59:07 < ventyl> you can get a lot of cheaper devices, but they either lack 2 channels, or are digital only
2021-05-05T14:59:32 < ventyl> and/or lack signal generator
2021-05-05T14:59:35 < jadew> that's still a scope, it just has 1 bit of resolution
2021-05-05T14:59:44 < jadew> oh, this one has a sig gen too?
2021-05-05T14:59:47 < jadew> that's pretty neat
2021-05-05T14:59:49 < ventyl> yes
2021-05-05T15:00:30 < ventyl> it is sufficient for answering two basic questions: a) is there any signal? b) does it look plausible?
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2021-05-05T15:00:57 < jadew> so that tiny thing has 4 channels and a sig gen?
2021-05-05T15:01:16 < jadew> that's pretty cool
2021-05-05T15:01:34 < ventyl> 2 analog + 2 digital channels and sig gen
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2021-05-05T15:01:47 < jadew> I see
2021-05-05T15:02:20 < jadew> they could have followed that 8 MHz square wave with a filter and made it 10 Hz - 8 MHz sine
2021-05-05T15:02:21 < ventyl> and internal flash for storing logs / screenshots, which is mostly unusable due to shitty SW
2021-05-05T15:02:28 < jadew> or maybe not
2021-05-05T15:02:37 < jadew> it would have required a series of filters, so NVM
2021-05-05T15:02:50 < ventyl> generator can generate more than just square wave
2021-05-05T15:03:01 < jadew> I saw, but only to 20 kHz
2021-05-05T15:03:50 < ventyl> right
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2021-05-05T15:05:59 < ventyl> probably more than I will ever use
2021-05-05T15:07:26 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-05-05T15:23:36 < jpa-> actually it generates somewhat ok sinewave up to 100kHz or so; it uses the STM32 DAC directly, which is 1MSps
2021-05-05T15:24:25 < jpa-> the biggest reason i got one decade ago was that i didn't have any room for a bigger scope; it did serve me well :)
2021-05-05T15:31:58 < ventyl> jpa-: you've been playing with it's FPGA, right?
2021-05-05T15:34:09 < jpa-> yeah
2021-05-05T15:34:41 < ventyl> is there any primer on toolchain for it?
2021-05-05T15:34:42 < jpa-> http://essentialscrap.com/dsoquad/usb-packets.png   rigol doesn't do this ;)
2021-05-05T15:35:15 < jpa-> primer? you need to email that jpa dude to get the decade old silicon blue icecube download packet and off you go
2021-05-05T15:36:45 < ventyl> not that I have any spare time to learn myself FPGAs
2021-05-05T15:49:29 < jadew> jpa-, nice
2021-05-05T16:00:42 < tct> has anyone messed with the hardware JPEG encoder/decoder in the STM32H750 yet?
2021-05-05T16:01:01 < jpa-> i've read the docs but haven't had any use for it
2021-05-05T16:10:10 < kakium69> zano 2.0
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2021-05-05T16:28:16 < qyx> tct: no but ventyl may like it
2021-05-05T16:33:00 < ventyl> qyx: do you know something, I don't, yet?
2021-05-05T16:36:56 < Steffanx> I bet he does
2021-05-05T16:37:00 < Steffanx> Qyx is a smart guy
2021-05-05T16:37:56 < qyx> it looks like everything on H7 is a bit braindamaged, I am assuming jpeg codec too
2021-05-05T16:38:21 < ventyl> now it looks as if I liked braindamaged stuff
2021-05-05T16:38:42 < qyx> you have a past experience
2021-05-05T16:39:26 < qyx> also
2021-05-05T16:39:37 < qyx> Steffanx: were you with BrainDamage in tectuland?
2021-05-05T16:40:06 < Steffanx> No, I was in tectuland and BrainDamage was there too
2021-05-05T16:42:23 < Steffanx> We both got to see tectu's empty office. You wanted to see it too, qyx?
2021-05-05T16:43:54 < qyx> of course
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2021-05-05T16:52:49 < Steffanx> The only thing I liked about german trains when I travelled back from swisserland http://imgur.com/a/H2suxjF
2021-05-05T16:52:55 < Steffanx> The two way train
2021-05-05T16:54:26 < qyx> :D
2021-05-05T16:55:38 < kakium69> I keep expecting a train collision
2021-05-05T16:56:05 < qyx> https://www.google.com/maps/@46.772874,10.1899789,2a,75y,281.54h,74.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szbu5OYr6yIxm_agukdApUg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dzbu5OYr6yIxm_agukdApUg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D140%26pitch%3D-20%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
2021-05-05T16:56:21 < qyx> lol tectulanders doing train-view
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2021-05-05T16:59:49 < karlp> fucking, even transistors I picked a month ago based on stock levels are now gone.
2021-05-05T17:02:20 < jadew> that reminds me... mouser owes me some ICs
2021-05-05T17:02:59 < qyx> same here
2021-05-05T17:03:02 < qyx> and money too
2021-05-05T17:03:09 -!- funky is now known as Streaker
2021-05-05T17:03:55 < Steffanx> They first want their empty box back, qyx
2021-05-05T17:11:07 < karlp> mouser doesn't let you filter pluggable terminal blocks by orientation...
2021-05-05T17:11:11 < karlp> thanks guys, nice one.
2021-05-05T17:14:22 < Steffanx> Youre welcome sir
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2021-05-05T17:39:28 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/gJSe8qo
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2021-05-05T17:45:43 < BrainDamage> it'd be neater if each cap had an rfid so switching caps would switch the letters
2021-05-05T17:47:11 < englishman> that's awesome kako
2021-05-05T17:51:01 < ventyl> christian mingle
2021-05-05T18:15:21 < kakium69> englishman: i feel like it's a repost
2021-05-05T18:30:32 < Laurenceb> sup trollz
2021-05-05T18:32:04 < Laurenceb> ok so I have a long cable with 12V DC on one end
2021-05-05T18:32:26 < Laurenceb> then I have a signal ground wire with a load of sensors tied to it
2021-05-05T18:32:59 < Laurenceb> theres also a 12V return conductor
2021-05-05T18:33:27 < Laurenceb> I only tie the return conductor to gnd at one end, so its up to ~1.5V above GND at some of the sensors
2021-05-05T18:33:50 < Laurenceb> is there any way to power the sensors from the 12V other than an isolated DC-DC?
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2021-05-05T20:07:38 < englishman> change 12V to 13.5V
2021-05-05T20:08:39 < jpa-> i wonder if his problem was that signal GND != power GND
2021-05-05T20:08:58 < jpa-> in which case he could have a buffer amp powered from power GND/+12V to buffer the signal GND
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2021-05-05T20:24:10 < mawk> I bought norwegian cheese
2021-05-05T20:24:20 < mawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost
2021-05-05T20:24:22 < mawk> it tastes good
2021-05-05T20:24:27 < mawk> but it's mega expensive
2021-05-05T20:24:31 < mawk> 50€/kg in the shop
2021-05-05T20:30:19 < BrainDamage> still less than candy
2021-05-05T20:30:32 < BrainDamage> candy is like 200€/kg
2021-05-05T20:32:51 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210505193219217.png
2021-05-05T20:33:01 < mawk> FDA refusal of french/belgian cheese Mimolette on entry to USA
2021-05-05T20:33:06 < mawk> Violation Code: FILTHY
2021-05-05T20:33:20 < mawk> "The article is subject to refusal of admission pursuant to Section 801(a)(3) in that the article appears to consist in whole or in part of a filthy, putrid, or decomposed substance or be otherwise unfit for food."
2021-05-05T20:34:28 < mawk> my medication is 60 000€/kg BrainDamage , drugs win this game
2021-05-05T20:34:31 < mawk> or maybe some precious metals
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2021-05-05T20:36:11 < BrainDamage> mawk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casu_martzu
2021-05-05T20:36:31 < mawk> yes I've heard of this absolute abomination
2021-05-05T20:37:42 < mawk> >Casu martzu is considered by Sardinian aficionados to be unsafe to eat when the maggots in the cheese have died.
2021-05-05T20:37:44 < mawk> why
2021-05-05T20:37:52 < mawk> because the maggots themselves will have started decomposing?
2021-05-05T20:38:03 < mawk> so they draw the line at eating decomposed maggots
2021-05-05T20:38:05 < mawk> decomposed cheese is fine
2021-05-05T20:38:33 < BrainDamage> my father unbestknownst to me had it once on a pizza
2021-05-05T20:38:40 < BrainDamage> I puked from the smell
2021-05-05T20:38:40 < mawk> you ate it?
2021-05-05T20:38:42 < mawk> lol
2021-05-05T20:38:46 < mawk> I guess not then
2021-05-05T20:38:53 < BrainDamage>  Because the larvae in the cheese can launch themselves for distances up to 15 centimetres (6 in) when disturbed,[4][11] diners hold their hands above the sandwich to prevent the maggots from leaping. 
2021-05-05T20:39:10 < mawk> lol
2021-05-05T20:39:14 < mawk> I'd at least remove them before trying
2021-05-05T20:39:55 < mawk> >Frmag punt in Apulia;
2021-05-05T20:40:04 < mawk> this sounds like broken french
2021-05-05T20:40:27 < mawk> "fromage point"
2021-05-05T20:45:32 < ventyl> mawk: that italian cheese doesn't compare to Islandian fermented shark
2021-05-05T20:45:52 < mawk> I said once I'd eat shark eggs if I could
2021-05-05T20:45:57 < mawk> but probably not fermented shark
2021-05-05T20:46:02 < ventyl> AFAIK it is nicknamed fingers of polar explorer, for a reason
2021-05-05T20:46:13 < ventyl> and then, there's surstromming
2021-05-05T20:46:15 < mawk> why
2021-05-05T20:46:25 < mawk> it tastes like fingers of a polar explorer?
2021-05-05T20:46:53 < ventyl> looks like fingers w/ necrosis from freezing cold
2021-05-05T20:46:59 < BrainDamage> frostbite makes your fingers cancrenous
2021-05-05T20:47:01 < mawk> ah nice
2021-05-05T20:47:11 < BrainDamage> eerrr, necrotic
2021-05-05T20:47:16 < mawk> gangrenous
2021-05-05T20:47:19 < mawk> just frost makes my fingers blue
2021-05-05T20:47:24 < mawk> because I am a degenerate with bad genes
2021-05-05T20:47:31 < mawk> and I have raynaud's syndrome
2021-05-05T20:47:47 < mawk> noteven frost, just cold
2021-05-05T20:47:50 < mawk> below like 12°C
2021-05-05T20:48:03 < antto> i have frostbites problems too
2021-05-05T20:48:54 < antto> mawk, you better not smoke then
2021-05-05T20:49:13 < mawk> I just e-smoke
2021-05-05T20:49:17 < mawk> but I read caffeine does it too
2021-05-05T20:49:22 < BrainDamage> i also know of people who put https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durian on their pizzas
2021-05-05T20:49:26 < mawk> and I drink like 2L of monster energy per day
2021-05-05T20:49:30 < mawk> durian doesn't smell that bad BrainDamage 
2021-05-05T20:49:39 < antto> o_O
2021-05-05T20:49:48 < mawk> but I can always tell when they have it in stock at the asian supermarket
2021-05-05T20:49:55 < BrainDamage> yes, durian didn't make me puk from the smell alone
2021-05-05T20:49:57 < antto> bruh, this energy drink sh*t is.. <concern.jpg>
2021-05-05T20:50:03 < mawk> why antto 
2021-05-05T20:50:08 < mawk> find me some nice caffeine pills to take instead
2021-05-05T20:50:10 < BrainDamage> it's disgusting, but not outright puke-worthy
2021-05-05T20:50:11 < mawk> and I'd do it
2021-05-05T20:50:16 < antto> i don't know.. everybody drinks them like it's water
2021-05-05T20:50:17 < mawk> but it's easier to buy drinkz
2021-05-05T20:50:19 < antto> kids here
2021-05-05T20:50:21 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-05T20:50:25 < mawk> well it's water and sugar and caffeine
2021-05-05T20:50:29 < mawk> there's no hidden danger
2021-05-05T20:50:40 < BrainDamage> we're genetically wired to love sugar
2021-05-05T20:50:40 < mawk> they could drink sugared coffee in the same manner
2021-05-05T20:50:49 < mawk> well there is a no-sugar variant but I hate it
2021-05-05T20:50:52 < antto> i drink coffee with sugar
2021-05-05T20:50:57 < mawk> aspartame and stuff have a specific horrible taste
2021-05-05T20:51:08 < mawk> coffee gives me gastro-intestinal issues that pure caffeine doesn't
2021-05-05T20:51:20 < antto> what kind of issues?
2021-05-05T20:51:26 < mawk> like shitting all day
2021-05-05T20:51:32 < antto> huh
2021-05-05T20:51:42 < mawk> maybe you don't drink enough coffee to remark it
2021-05-05T20:51:43 < antto> espresso?
2021-05-05T20:51:46 < mawk> yes
2021-05-05T20:51:53 < antto> i drink instant coffee
2021-05-05T20:51:55 < mawk> from the "italian" machine you put on the stove
2021-05-05T20:52:14 < mawk> you put ground coffee and water and pshiiit it makes coffee
2021-05-05T20:52:23 < antto> i used to drink espresso when i was a barman, but it didn't make me sh*t any more than usual
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2021-05-05T20:52:27 < BrainDamage> it's not unheard of
2021-05-05T20:52:34 < BrainDamage> moka
2021-05-05T20:52:42 < mawk> yes
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2021-05-05T20:52:55 < BrainDamage> it's not a real espresso tho, it's much more bitter
2021-05-05T20:54:05 < antto> if you sh*t every day, and you drink coffee every day, how do you tell whether it's the coffee that made u sh*t somehow more differently, i wonder
2021-05-05T20:54:16 < antto> since i kinda sorta sh*t once a week ;P~
2021-05-05T20:54:30 < mawk> bitterness is all there is about coffee BrainDamage 
2021-05-05T20:54:37 < mawk> and it's the best taste in nature with acidity
2021-05-05T20:54:40 < BrainDamage> because when you get GI distress you feel cramps, diharrea, etc
2021-05-05T20:54:55 < BrainDamage> acid tastes bitter
2021-05-05T20:55:02 < BrainDamage> what we taste as acid, isn't
2021-05-05T20:55:02 < mawk> when I was taking codeine everyday I was shitting once every week or two weeks, approximately
2021-05-05T20:55:12 < mawk> and I thought it was normal because I was on it for so long since a young age
2021-05-05T20:55:27 < mawk> when I told my doctor he was a bit concerned for me and prescribed laxatives immediately
2021-05-05T20:55:49 < mawk> there are currently molecules researched that block the effect of opiates in the intestines but not in the brain, to reverse the opiate-induced constipation
2021-05-05T20:55:54 < mawk> but it's not on market yet
2021-05-05T20:55:54 < antto> it was convenient for me when i was a kid, since i kinda didn't every had to go to the school WC to take a sh*t
2021-05-05T20:56:20 < antto> school WCs were disgusting
2021-05-05T20:56:21 < mawk> lemon juice BrainDamage ?
2021-05-05T20:56:38 < mawk> I tasted pure vitamin C when I tried to do something stupid one day, it was tasting acid
2021-05-05T20:56:43 < mawk> but also a bit different, a new kind of taste
2021-05-05T20:56:47 < mawk> and it was very painful
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2021-05-05T20:56:59 < mawk> but I tasted it through the nose so maybe it wasn't the real taste
2021-05-05T20:57:11 < antto> dafuq have you been doing?
2021-05-05T20:57:31 < mawk> dissolve something in water
2021-05-05T20:57:33 < mawk> with the help of an acid
2021-05-05T20:57:39 < mawk> then put it in my nose to get high
2021-05-05T20:57:56 < antto> hm, one time in 8th grade i brought some vanilla powder and we snorted it during physics class
2021-05-05T20:57:57 < mawk> I had pure ascorbic acid at hand, I thought it would work
2021-05-05T20:58:11 < mawk> normally junkies use citric acid but I don't have that
2021-05-05T20:58:17 < antto> then we laughed on some sh*t too loudly and the teacher f*cked me up
2021-05-05T20:58:22 < mawk> lol
2021-05-05T20:58:30 < mawk> in school I had snuffing tobacco
2021-05-05T20:58:37 < mawk> the taste is alright
2021-05-05T20:58:38 < BrainDamage> I have a bag of 2kg of anhydrous ascorbic acidd
2021-05-05T20:58:51 < mawk> I tried snorting real tobacco out of an rolled ciggie once though, and it hurts like hell
2021-05-05T20:59:01 < BrainDamage> I used in the past to make an edimburg etch
2021-05-05T20:59:18 < mawk> mine was for use in homemade cosmetics
2021-05-05T20:59:24 < mawk> and homemade drug chemistry apparently
2021-05-05T20:59:45 < mawk> https://www.joopstoop.fr/en/blog/edinburgh-etch-n5
2021-05-05T20:59:53 < mawk> so you substituted the citric acid with ascorbic acid
2021-05-05T21:00:05 < Steffanx> Joop stoop sounds dutch 
2021-05-05T21:00:11 < mawk> yeah but DOT FR
2021-05-05T21:00:14 < mawk> fr > nl
2021-05-05T21:00:25 < mawk> probably it's a belgian guy that walked a bit too far down south
2021-05-05T21:02:10 < mawk> so how do we taste real acid BrainDamage ?
2021-05-05T21:05:26 < mawk> "put it on your tongue and wait for the walls to start moving"
2021-05-05T21:05:34 < mawk> no not that acid
2021-05-05T21:09:25 < mawk> zyp: what is the median of 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, ..., 200 ? (the number k appears k times)
2021-05-05T21:09:39 < mawk> the median is the value exactly in the middle (or the average of the two middle values, if the list is even-numbered)
2021-05-05T21:09:55 < mawk> bonus for no computerz
2021-05-05T21:10:03 < mawk> and mega-bonus if you find a geometric argument
2021-05-05T21:10:19 < mawk> for instance using >>>pyramids<<< or >>>triangles<<<
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2021-05-05T21:13:21 < qyx> split the triangle in two with the same area
2021-05-05T21:14:03 < qyx> m^2/2 = 200^2/2 - m^2/2?
2021-05-05T21:14:06 < qyx> solve for m
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2021-05-05T21:32:21 -!- kakium69 [575d82da@87-93-130-218.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-05-05T21:33:56 < mawk> yes qyx
2021-05-05T21:33:58 < mawk> you win the mega bonus
2021-05-05T21:34:00 < mawk> although the eqn is wrong
2021-05-05T21:34:03 < mawk> nevermind
2021-05-05T21:34:05 < mawk> it's right
2021-05-05T21:34:09 < mawk> although you should know is a ~= and not firm =, the triangle isn't really one, but it's close enough
2021-05-05T21:34:11 < mawk> the real equation is m(m+1)/2 = 200(200+1)/4
2021-05-05T21:34:20 < mawk> but the approximate one works great
2021-05-05T21:35:28 < mawk> so m ≈ 141.shit so the number is 142
2021-05-05T21:36:58 < mawk> I am witnessing a couple fighting in the street
2021-05-05T21:37:12 < mawk> the guy is hitting things and slamming food on the ground
2021-05-05T21:37:18 < mawk> I'm afraid he hurts her lol
2021-05-05T21:37:36 < qyx> offer yourself to be hurt instead
2021-05-05T21:37:40 < mawk> lol no
2021-05-05T21:37:44 < mawk> I'll just watch
2021-05-05T21:37:52 < mawk> maybe call the cops if she loses a few teeth
2021-05-05T21:37:53 < qyx> call nine-one-one
2021-05-05T21:38:02 < mawk> it's one-one-two
2021-05-05T21:38:04 < mawk> I think
2021-05-05T21:38:34 < jadew> 20 minutes later: "Sage: 1 of 2 117% of stage done"
2021-05-05T21:39:20 < jadew> I guess they're using the other kind of percentages
2021-05-05T21:40:08 < jadew> still going up, I guess it's going to end at some point
2021-05-05T21:42:52 < jadew> 131%... but I'm not surprised, I'm used to opensource overdelivering
2021-05-05T21:43:16 < mawk> that just means 1.31
2021-05-05T21:43:19 < mawk> no big deal
2021-05-05T21:43:33 < mawk> 1.31/∞ done
2021-05-05T21:43:50 < mawk> because the ride never ends
2021-05-05T21:44:05 < jadew> in a different reference frame I'm already done
2021-05-05T21:44:12 < mawk> lol
2021-05-05T21:44:23 < mawk> from inside a black hole
2021-05-05T21:44:28 < mawk> yes
2021-05-05T21:44:53 < qyx> how do SJWs call black holes
2021-05-05T21:45:06 < mawk> good question
2021-05-05T21:45:38 < mawk> spacetime singularity, but that'd be triggering to agoraphobes
2021-05-05T21:45:44 < mawk> there's the name "space" in it
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2021-05-05T21:47:07 < jadew> I think they call them frequency challenged volumes of space
2021-05-05T21:47:36 < mawk> lol
2021-05-05T21:52:23 < jadew> my process stopped and I started over again, but I didn't check at what percentage it was done
2021-05-05T21:52:44 < jadew> maybe this time it will finish below 100%, so it evens out over time
2021-05-05T21:54:44 < bitmask> first board is almost done :P https://i.imgur.com/2zOdN1e.png
2021-05-05T21:56:07 < jadew> how many font sizes are there?
2021-05-05T21:56:58 < bitmask> hah i dont know why it does that, i didnt set the fonts yet
2021-05-05T21:57:07 < jadew> I think C9 is smaller than C8, but I thought the packages are different size so... ok... but if you look at C7 and C6, they're the same
2021-05-05T21:57:48 < jadew> maybe it's an optical illusion
2021-05-05T21:58:00 < bitmask> is the font set in the library or does it default on a per project basis
2021-05-05T21:58:23 < jadew> you can edit them all at once
2021-05-05T21:58:33 < bitmask> i know
2021-05-05T21:58:41 < bitmask> i'm just not ready to yet
2021-05-05T22:08:29 < jadew> https://www.livemint.com/opinion/online-views/a-wto-waiver-on-patents-won-t-help-us-against-covid-11619625719625.html
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2021-05-05T23:46:04 < karlp> .... wat?
2021-05-05T23:46:22 < karlp> yes, patent holders _can_ license favourably.....
2021-05-05T23:46:44 < karlp> they've never done so in the past, they tend to license what the market can bear, hence the threat of the hammer of waivers.
2021-05-05T23:47:00 < karlp> saying, "yes, but they could just license them!" is not a "third" option, it's literally the status quo...
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2021-05-05T23:47:34 < BrainDamage> just because india abuses its position it doesn't mean the utility is void either
2021-05-05T23:48:08 < karlp> compulsory licensing is also only viable for nations that _have_ capcity domesitically to produce, btu don't have licenses either
2021-05-05T23:48:13 < karlp> that article is garbage jadew.
2021-05-05T23:49:03 < karlp> neocon all good comes from private enterprise, all the time...
2021-05-05T23:49:20 < karlp> "Yet, these governments required the ingenuity of private enterprise to invent these vaccines. If not, they could just as easily have committed resources to government labs to invent these vaccines"
2021-05-05T23:49:45 < karlp> can you image if any government had even _considered_ doing it themselves, instead of letting private industry profit?
2021-05-05T23:49:58 < karlp> govertnments backed it all anyway
2021-05-05T23:50:32 < BrainDamage> yeah, paying it twice, in the funding, and in the production
2021-05-05T23:50:43 < karlp> huh, I'm cleaning up a bit before doing a clean install, instead of anu prgade, and found a yosys tree from 2016.
2021-05-05T23:50:50 < karlp> time sure flies
2021-05-05T23:51:00 < BrainDamage> because it's in the citizens wellbeing in interest
2021-05-05T23:51:14 < BrainDamage> vs having revenue
2021-05-05T23:52:00 < BrainDamage> also, I like how the only motivation possible to do research is to achieve high profit margins
2021-05-05T23:52:46 < BrainDamage> the largest majority of humanity's science and technology successes are in fact direct consequence of basic research
2021-05-05T23:52:54 < BrainDamage> and this vaccine was too
2021-05-05T23:53:08 < BrainDamage> but the article forgets to mention that
--- Day changed Thu May 06 2021
2021-05-06T00:08:45 < tct> research tends to get more complicated over time as more ´basic´ or ´easy to research´ things have already been researched. The stuff we research gets smaller, or bigger, or further away. Overall you need to have more existing equipment or infrastructure than research that happened prior.
2021-05-06T00:09:27 < tct> I know that there´s plenty of exceptions and that this falls down once you compare inter-disciplinary research etc. This is just my opinion on the overall context of research.
2021-05-06T00:09:33 < tct> BrainDamage, ^
2021-05-06T00:11:40 < BrainDamage> basic research doesn't mean easy, it means people allowed to research things based off their intuition, not practical demans
2021-05-06T00:12:10 < BrainDamage> while profit driven research almost always requires the latter
2021-05-06T00:12:41 < BrainDamage> ofc basic research won't give you a working product, so you need both
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2021-05-06T00:13:15 < BrainDamage> but it's extremely naive to think we can get away without it, when our greatest successes are consequences of it
2021-05-06T00:13:18 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/yES6V
2021-05-06T00:14:29 < BrainDamage> I think I still have a stlink clone of texane's repo that's about as old as that, if not older
2021-05-06T00:14:32 < BrainDamage> sec
2021-05-06T00:14:58 < qyx> whats that develop * thing
2021-05-06T00:15:08 < qyx> I am not into modern tech
2021-05-06T00:15:14 < BrainDamage> uh, quite a bit older actually http://ix.io/3lTC
2021-05-06T00:15:15 < qyx> some sort of container?
2021-05-06T00:15:47 < karlp> no, git status PS1...
2021-05-06T00:16:00 < karlp> . /usr/share/git-core/contrib/completion/git-prompt.sh
2021-05-06T00:16:02 < karlp> export GIT_PS1_SHOWDIRTYSTATE=1
2021-05-06T00:16:09 < qyx> uhm
2021-05-06T00:16:18 < karlp> (branchname [flags])
2021-05-06T00:16:28 < tct> BrainDamage, disclaimer: I didn´t read the actual conversation - just your last messages before my mustard.
2021-05-06T00:16:31 < karlp> * means dirty, + means you have staged, and shit,
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2021-05-06T00:16:53 < karlp> I find it helpful to see when I'm inside rebases andshit, and whatbranchI'm on, and ...
2021-05-06T00:17:09 < qyx> yeah I'll try, thanks
2021-05-06T00:17:18 < BrainDamage> I have a similar status line, but I wrote my own
2021-05-06T00:17:20 < karlp> I just have that in my .bashrc.
2021-05-06T00:17:29 < karlp> the path to the completion mayb e somewhat distro specific...
2021-05-06T00:17:35 < BrainDamage> ~/repositories/stm32/stlink❯                                         master …6
2021-05-06T00:17:47 < karlp> yeah, some fancy shells use fancy codes too ;)
2021-05-06T00:17:53 < BrainDamage> 6 means 6 unstaged files
2021-05-06T00:18:28 < karlp> I have become conservative and just use "basic" tools for a lot of stuff, so I can work anywhere, instead of needing to install 50 user scripts for fish shell or thisweek'swindowmanager...
2021-05-06T00:18:35 < karlp> but sometimes I get dragged along ;)
2021-05-06T00:18:48 < karlp> PS1='\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]$(__git_ps1 " (%s)")\$\[\e[0m\] '
2021-05-06T00:18:54 < karlp> surely that's easier to follow? ;)
2021-05-06T00:19:11 < karlp> qyx: you need _something_ like that, with our orwithout colours and shit....
2021-05-06T00:19:31 < qyx> I know how to PS1
2021-05-06T00:19:34 < karlp> sourcing the git-prompt.sh basically just gives you that __git_ps1 variable that you can use...
2021-05-06T00:19:38 < qyx> but I didn't know git has something
2021-05-06T00:20:17 < qyx> now, unrelated
2021-05-06T00:20:22 < karlp> BrainDamage: so is that zsh or fish? or more custom bash ones?
2021-05-06T00:20:41 < BrainDamage> zsh
2021-05-06T00:21:00 < qyx> I have a tubular alu case and I want to glue an antenna on the outer surface
2021-05-06T00:21:33 < qyx> I assume common 3M adhesive antennas wouuld not work on a metal surface
2021-05-06T00:21:57 < BrainDamage> being able to run bash scripts is a requirement for me
2021-05-06T00:22:01 < BrainDamage> and I wrote everything so it gracefully degrades on bashh
2021-05-06T00:22:03 < BrainDamage> and then put all my config in one location
2021-05-06T00:22:04 < BrainDamage> then added 3 lines in my ssh so I get it auto copied on host and sourced
2021-05-06T00:22:07 < BrainDamage> that solved my portability problems
2021-05-06T00:22:40 < karlp> yeah, I've heard of that sort of solution :)
2021-05-06T00:23:17 < BrainDamage> qyx: is it anodized?
2021-05-06T00:24:00 < karlp> fucking git repos...
2021-05-06T00:24:23 < karlp> I kinda want to keep an old linux tree, but it's 2G...
2021-05-06T00:24:28 < karlp> whatever, will just keep it.
2021-05-06T00:24:41 < qyx> lzma it
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2021-05-06T00:24:49 < qyx> BrainDamage: lets assume so
2021-05-06T00:24:54 < qyx> is it important?
2021-05-06T00:24:59 < karlp> 68G in "Downloads"
2021-05-06T00:25:02 < qyx> from the electrical pov?
2021-05-06T00:25:48 < BrainDamage> qyx: no, but it does for a glue pov
2021-05-06T00:25:58 < BrainDamage> it makes the glue stick much much better
2021-05-06T00:26:15 < BrainDamage> the anodization process also makes a thick layer of insulation
2021-05-06T00:26:26 < BrainDamage> which is also pretty hard
2021-05-06T00:27:06 < BrainDamage> normal al will have a thin one, so you could in theory scratch it off
2021-05-06T00:27:14 < BrainDamage> but not anodized
2021-05-06T00:27:59 < BrainDamage> you could use a conductive tape on top of the al
2021-05-06T00:28:07 < BrainDamage> and then attach the antenna on that
2021-05-06T00:28:31 < BrainDamage> so that the antenna uses the conductive adhesive as gnd plane
2021-05-06T00:29:23 < qyx> but then it needs to be patch instead of IFA
2021-05-06T00:29:51 < qyx> or pifa
2021-05-06T00:30:08 < BrainDamage> yup, you don't have much leeway around that, not with a giant chunk of metal behind
2021-05-06T00:31:18 < BrainDamage> mayyybe you could get microwave absorbing foam and put it between the al and the antenna
2021-05-06T00:31:23 < BrainDamage> but ymmv
2021-05-06T00:31:50 < qyx> 868M is not much microwaveish
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2021-05-06T00:32:23 < qyx> ok so basically I make a hole in the enclosure and glue a patch there
2021-05-06T00:32:37 < qyx> and tune it with cutting edges
2021-05-06T00:33:03 < qyx> emc guys will like it
2021-05-06T00:35:58  * karlp nukes his downloads directory....
2021-05-06T00:36:53 < BrainDamage> I've learned to put mine on /tmp
2021-05-06T00:37:07 < BrainDamage> it forces me to move out the things i really need
2021-05-06T00:38:44 < karlp> yeah, I picked out a tiny handful of recent things...
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2021-05-06T00:44:05 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56993735
2021-05-06T00:44:08 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2021-05-06T00:44:15 < Laurenceb> >concerned father
2021-05-06T00:45:45 < Laurenceb> >implying teenage boys wont bypass it
2021-05-06T00:46:28 < Laurenceb> when I was at school someone made a .net clone of the teachers system that disabled web filtering
2021-05-06T00:49:55 < Laurenceb> spacex test soon
2021-05-06T00:50:14 < BrainDamage> I'm sure the rest of the world will care about uk's rulings
2021-05-06T00:50:53 < BrainDamage> worst case the sites will block uk, and people will just use vpns
2021-05-06T00:51:29 < Laurenceb> the .net thing was basically a virus that replaced the login window and spread via outlook
2021-05-06T00:52:15 < Laurenceb> then when the teacher tried to login it emailed the password back to a hotmail account that all the kids knew the password for, then rebooted the machine
2021-05-06T00:53:50 < Laurenceb> iirc there is an api for controlling clippy, I made a modified version which spawned millions of clippies until the machine died
2021-05-06T00:54:16 < karlp> I kinda want to keep ~home, but throw out all the .dot stuff, and have a clean start...
2021-05-06T00:54:30 < karlp> but not as easy as just nuking / and installing, then remounting home...
2021-05-06T00:56:03 < BrainDamage> make a new user
2021-05-06T00:56:23 < karlp> eh, kinda like having the same username everywhere :|
2021-05-06T00:56:35 < BrainDamage> you can rename the old one
2021-05-06T00:57:05 < karlp> I guess I could reinstall the system clean, don't mount the existing /home partition, make a new user,
2021-05-06T00:57:39 < karlp> mount the old one and rename the old karlp, copy freshly created to home partition, then reeboot with the new mount
2021-05-06T00:57:46 < karlp> and copy back over things that were important.
2021-05-06T00:57:51 < karlp> yeah, that will work.
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2021-05-06T01:00:08 < BrainDamage> you can rename the old dir from the installation medium if you mount it
2021-05-06T01:00:17 < BrainDamage> that'll let you skip some steps
2021-05-06T01:01:21 < ventyl> karlp: don't forget to remove remains of the old one
2021-05-06T01:01:44 < ventyl> i have /home/ventyl/backup/backup/powerbook_backup/backup/old :)
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2021-05-06T01:02:37 < jadew> BrainDamage & karlp, BioNTech lost hundreds of millions on research, developing the IP that made it all possible, in the previous years
2021-05-06T01:03:11 < BrainDamage> jadew: i'm sure the world can pay back those in cash
2021-05-06T01:03:21 < BrainDamage> without having to buy the individual vaccines
2021-05-06T01:03:26 < jadew> yes, huge profits is the motivation to risk huge amounts of money
2021-05-06T01:03:42 < jadew> if you take that away, who's going to risk their billions on the next pandemic?
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2021-05-06T01:03:59 < jadew> are you going to rely on the government to come up with a vaccine? they're largely incompetent on all levels
2021-05-06T01:04:17 < BrainDamage> sure, the profits can come in a single payment
2021-05-06T01:04:19 < BrainDamage> 10billions, cash, from all the world
2021-05-06T01:04:39 < jadew> well, that would be fine, but that's not the deal they're getting, isn't it?
2021-05-06T01:05:01 < jadew> the world is free to buy BioNTech, they're publicly listed, so they can actually do it
2021-05-06T01:05:14 < BrainDamage> that's not how it works
2021-05-06T01:05:16 < jadew> what they want is to socialize their gains
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2021-05-06T01:05:26 < BrainDamage> you cannot force people to sell
2021-05-06T01:05:34 < BrainDamage> but you can force expropriate
2021-05-06T01:05:38 < jadew> BrainDamage, you don't have to, they'll sell it willingly
2021-05-06T01:05:40 < BrainDamage> the law is stupid like tthis
2021-05-06T01:06:04 < BrainDamage> I'm a weee bit skeptical
2021-05-06T01:06:09 < jadew> the company is publicly traded, so if you offer a fair price you can buy the shares
2021-05-06T01:06:24 < BrainDamage> the shares is not full control
2021-05-06T01:06:29 < BrainDamage> just a portion
2021-05-06T01:06:30 < jadew> like we were talking yesterday, bill gates only holds less than 1% of MSFT
2021-05-06T01:06:36 < jadew> so he sold his share too
2021-05-06T01:06:51 < BrainDamage> yes, so he has 1% of power
2021-05-06T01:07:05 < jadew> you can get enough control to have a majority in the board of directors
2021-05-06T01:07:19 < BrainDamage> which meeans his word has little weight
2021-05-06T01:07:21 < jadew> BrainDamage, exactly, the point is that he sold, even tho it was his biggest creation
2021-05-06T01:07:37 < jadew> he sold, because the price was right
2021-05-06T01:07:51 < BrainDamage> just because he did, it doesn't mean that everyone would
2021-05-06T01:07:54 < jadew> in the same way, the world can buy BioNTech and do whatever it pleases with their IP
2021-05-06T01:08:13 < BrainDamage> yes, except they can demand astronomical prices
2021-05-06T01:08:18 < Laurenceb> talking of gates, I wonder what happened to Ballmer
2021-05-06T01:08:26 < jadew> they can demand what they think their life's work is worth
2021-05-06T01:08:30 < jadew> and that is fair
2021-05-06T01:08:50 < jadew> taking it by force is not only immoral, it's bad for the future
2021-05-06T01:09:10 < jadew> because it increases the perceived risk of someone considering getting into that business
2021-05-06T01:09:16 < jadew> that's how communism fails
2021-05-06T01:09:19 < BrainDamage> no, it's not, they rely on society to have the work's done
2021-05-06T01:09:22 < jadew> there's no incentive anymore
2021-05-06T01:09:54 < BrainDamage> I don't see the scientists farming their potatoes
2021-05-06T01:10:06 < jadew> which ones?
2021-05-06T01:10:07 < BrainDamage> our society in fact can only support a small minority that does research
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2021-05-06T01:10:25 < jadew> well, I think the market has decided which minority we have to support
2021-05-06T01:10:26 < jadew> and we should
2021-05-06T01:10:43 < jadew> *the free market
2021-05-06T01:11:04 < jadew> why mess with something that works?
2021-05-06T01:11:21 < jadew> isn't astrazeneca allowing anyone to make their vaccine?
2021-05-06T01:11:21 < BrainDamage> the market is not a measure of moral
2021-05-06T01:11:43 < jadew> BrainDamage, it kinda is tho, because the capitalist model relies on the human nature, which is why it works
2021-05-06T01:11:46 < BrainDamage> because the free market works only with assumptions that exist on paper
2021-05-06T01:11:52 < jadew> and humans as a hole decide what is moral and what isn't
2021-05-06T01:12:24 < BrainDamage> and humans can decide that putting an arbitrary price on millions of lives is conterproductive
2021-05-06T01:12:57 < jadew> it's not arbitrary tho
2021-05-06T01:13:09 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE
2021-05-06T01:13:17 < Laurenceb> Ballmer reminds me of hyperloop boss
2021-05-06T01:13:23 < jadew> it's priced in such a way that they can extract as much profit as possible
2021-05-06T01:13:42 < jadew> it's not like they set the price to 10000 k/dose so nobody can get it
2021-05-06T01:13:45 < jadew> they want to sell it
2021-05-06T01:14:01 < Laurenceb> hyperloop boss has a rpi and 4g modem embedded in the bumper of his wifes car
2021-05-06T01:14:09 < BrainDamage> yeah, that's ... arbitrary for the shareholder's benefits
2021-05-06T01:14:15 < Laurenceb> its streams all sorts of data to his pc live
2021-05-06T01:14:41 < jadew> BrainDamage, if they can sell it at that price, it means that's how much it is worth
2021-05-06T01:14:49 < Laurenceb> internal and external hidden mics, gps, hidden camera etc
2021-05-06T01:14:58 < karlp> speaking of mics.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_L5v9OTSxc
2021-05-06T01:15:50 < BrainDamage> jadew: no, it's not, the society punishes eg people that scam others or that put absurd interest rates
2021-05-06T01:16:10 < BrainDamage> because it's not in the interest of the society to let everyone do wtf they want
2021-05-06T01:16:17 < jadew> BrainDamage, if the vaccine is priced poorly, people will punish them by not buying it
2021-05-06T01:16:23 < jadew> then they incur loses
2021-05-06T01:16:38 < jadew> if they want to turn those loses into profits, they will have to lower the price
2021-05-06T01:16:56 < jadew> given that that is not the case, we can only conclude that it is price reasonably
2021-05-06T01:17:05 < jadew> especially when there is plenty of competition out there
2021-05-06T01:17:06 < BrainDamage> yeah, no
2021-05-06T01:17:25 < Laurenceb> launch coming up
2021-05-06T01:17:27 < BrainDamage> for one, it's an oligopoly
2021-05-06T01:17:52 < jadew> from what I understand AstraZeneca is selling it at cost
2021-05-06T01:17:56 < BrainDamage> for second, you're assuming some super perfect optimizaion
2021-05-06T01:18:07 < jadew> so AZN is not making any profits from it
2021-05-06T01:18:20 < jadew> this is as far from market manipulation as you can get
2021-05-06T01:18:32 < jadew> when you have a basically free variant on the market
2021-05-06T01:18:51 < BrainDamage> they are not equivalen
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2021-05-06T01:19:03 < jadew> exactly, some are worth more than the free one
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2021-05-06T01:19:38 < jadew> and the price is set by the market, if the world decided not to buy it at X price, what do you think it would happen?
2021-05-06T01:19:45 < karlp> azn vaccine in .in isn't the same as in the uk, aiui,
2021-05-06T01:19:48 < jadew> the price would drop close to cost
2021-05-06T01:20:03 < jadew> karlp, I think they're making their own, no?
2021-05-06T01:20:04 < karlp> it's, "developed in partnership with az"
2021-05-06T01:20:16 < karlp> not, "the same az one that people in europe are using"
2021-05-06T01:20:31 < BrainDamage> when it's life and death, price isn't a thing
2021-05-06T01:20:40 < karlp> don't forget, lots of your "losses" and "costs" aren't...
2021-05-06T01:20:46 < karlp> thjey're "we're spent X on development"
2021-05-06T01:20:46 < jadew> BrainDamage, sadly it always is
2021-05-06T01:21:03 < BrainDamage> people sell water in deserted areas for stupidly high prices
2021-05-06T01:21:13 < karlp> (we also received some X as tax writeoffs for r&d, and will be expecting licesnign revenue over x years)
2021-05-06T01:21:13 < jadew> there's a limit to how much the world can spend to save one person
2021-05-06T01:21:16 < karlp> it's not... gone.
2021-05-06T01:21:33 < karlp> some of it's straight up not even paid...
2021-05-06T01:21:47 < BrainDamage> and no, people won't sell a cheap version even if they coul
2021-05-06T01:22:05 < jadew> BrainDamage, of the AZ one?
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2021-05-06T01:22:16 < BrainDamage> no, of my water example
2021-05-06T01:22:25 < jadew> ah
2021-05-06T01:22:42 < jadew> well there's another thing at play there
2021-05-06T01:22:45 < BrainDamage> the market doesn't magically stabilize at a fair price
2021-05-06T01:22:47 < jadew> if you sell cheap, you run out
2021-05-06T01:23:16 < jadew> with resources that are scarce, you want a private individual to manage them (be their resources)
2021-05-06T01:23:32 < jadew> because they will make sure to exploit them in the most efficient manner
2021-05-06T01:23:46 < BrainDamage> that's a fuckload of assumptions
2021-05-06T01:24:03 < jadew> if you leave the govt for example with that task, it will most certainly waste it by subsidizing and just giving it away at a loss
2021-05-06T01:24:08 < BrainDamage> the only guarantee of a free market is that it stabilizes, you don't know when, and you don' know if it'll be fair
2021-05-06T01:24:41 < jadew> BrainDamage, it's not an assuption, it's an observation that many economists have made already
2021-05-06T01:24:50 < BrainDamage> moreover, a free market requires equal starting conditions, thatt's far from truth
2021-05-06T01:25:30 < jadew> it doesn't require that, it requires fair rules that apply to everyone the same
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2021-05-06T01:26:03 < BrainDamage> you might want to look at the definition of a fair game in game theory
2021-05-06T01:26:07 < jadew> if you play by the same rules and the odds are not stacked against you, it's a free market, it's up to you to get on the same footing as everyone else
2021-05-06T01:26:18 < jadew> you can't expect new players to start from the same level as old ones
2021-05-06T01:27:18 < jadew> anyway, we'll see how this plays out
2021-05-06T01:27:21 < BrainDamage> except the definition of a fair game allows exactly that
2021-05-06T01:27:33 < jadew> I don't think they'll waive anything, but it will create some news stories
2021-05-06T01:28:10 < karlp> the only thing that plays to their favour is that places that _could_ just say fuck the west, like brazil, aren't even interested in saving their own people....
2021-05-06T01:28:38 < jadew> BrainDamage, right, but this is not a game, you can't have everyone equal. All you can do is try to give everyone a clean set of rules and let the best companies do their thing
2021-05-06T01:28:55 < jadew> lol karlp 
2021-05-06T01:28:56 < BrainDamage> the definion of a game is not for ... games
2021-05-06T01:29:05 < BrainDamage> it's about arbitrary competition
2021-05-06T01:29:10 < jadew> I know what you mean
2021-05-06T01:29:18 < jadew> by game I meant that this is not something that can be set up
2021-05-06T01:29:20 < BrainDamage> it's also what economists uses ..
2021-05-06T01:29:22 < jadew> it just is
2021-05-06T01:29:49 < BrainDamage> I think you're just obsessed with a company mindset
2021-05-06T01:30:19 < jadew> we can do it on an individual level, and I would have roughly the same mindset
2021-05-06T01:30:39 < BrainDamage> it has its flaws, other systems are worse, please don't pretend what we have is the best we could get
2021-05-06T01:30:43 < jadew> I believe in freedom and in free cooperation
2021-05-06T01:30:45 < BrainDamage> because it's far far from it
2021-05-06T01:31:37 < qyx> sn15 landed
2021-05-06T01:31:47 < jadew> I'm not saying it's the best it could get, because I don't know the future, but I've seen the past and forcing entities (so I won't say companies again) to do things they don't want to do, rarely ends up good for a society
2021-05-06T01:32:52 < jadew> just think about the reason why we don't have 1000 vaccines already
2021-05-06T01:33:09 < jadew> it's because it's a risky and costly business
2021-05-06T01:33:29 < jadew> many tried it and failed, many didn't want to take the risk
2021-05-06T01:33:41 < jadew> those that did, ended up winning big
2021-05-06T01:34:05 < jadew> if you take that away, you're drastically reducing the number of tries that are going to be made in the future
2021-05-06T01:35:05 < jadew> also, to me it looks like the whole thing is working
2021-05-06T01:35:18 < BrainDamage> fwiw the vaccines got there fast because of preexisting basic research ...
2021-05-06T01:36:04 < BrainDamage> it's not like they developed them from scratch
2021-05-06T01:36:26 < jadew> right, which as I mentioned earlier was made at great cost
2021-05-06T01:36:30 < jadew> https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BNTX/financials?p=BNTX
2021-05-06T01:36:56 < jadew> look at the operating income
2021-05-06T01:37:25 < BrainDamage> they didn't invent mrna vaccine
2021-05-06T01:37:46 < jadew> we didn't invent the PC, but we still invest a lot of time into developing other stuff with it
2021-05-06T01:37:48 < jadew> don't we?
2021-05-06T01:38:12 < jadew> they obviously invested a lot into the research that made this possible
2021-05-06T01:38:51 < jadew> and they only accepted the risk because they thought they can make some money, otherwise it would have been just money thrown out the window
2021-05-06T01:39:07 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed
2021-05-06T01:39:34 < BrainDamage> they literally received billions of funding from state for research
2021-05-06T01:39:38 < jadew> BioNTech didn't take money from operation warp speed
2021-05-06T01:40:03 < jadew> they only benefited from the birocracy reduction
2021-05-06T01:40:35 < BrainDamage> https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-germany-vaccine-idUSKBN2661KP
2021-05-06T01:40:36 < jadew> (as in faster reviews and things like that)
2021-05-06T01:40:59 < BrainDamage> no, they just got 0.5 billions from germany
2021-05-06T01:41:47 < jadew> well, Germany oposes the IP waving thing hehe
2021-05-06T01:42:11 < jadew> I have to look into the grant - it might have been an investment
2021-05-06T01:43:25 < jadew> yep, it's an investment
2021-05-06T01:43:49 < jadew> the govt didn't just hand them money, they now own a stake in the company
2021-05-06T01:44:45 < BrainDamage> link?
2021-05-06T01:45:18 < jadew> https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/biontech-ag/company_financials
2021-05-06T01:45:34 < jadew> I'm still looking to confirm this, but it looks like that's what happened
2021-05-06T01:47:49 < jadew> https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/german-federal-ministry-of-education-and-research-bmbf/company_financials
2021-05-06T01:48:00 < jadew> looks like they already exited the position
2021-05-06T01:48:44 < jadew> the data should be public, I wonder what they sold it for
2021-05-06T01:54:50 < jadew> can't find data on it - big traders are supposed to publish these things, but I guess they don't qualify as a trader
2021-05-06T01:55:38 < jadew> in either case, if the german government had control of the company because they invested in it, then they would be free to do whatever they wanted with the IP
2021-05-06T01:56:02 < jadew> from the look of it, they wouldn't want to give it away anyway, but if they did, I wouldn't have any objections
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2021-05-06T01:57:43 < jadew> anyway, I'm off to bed
2021-05-06T01:58:01 < jadew> night
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2021-05-06T02:02:47 < mid-kid> Is it possible to leave VDDUSB unpowered while no USB is connected?
2021-05-06T02:02:53 < mid-kid> On STM32L412 by the way
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2021-05-06T02:49:29 < jadew> can't sleep :/
2021-05-06T02:49:57 < jadew> I have a doctor's appointment in the morning and I decided to be well rested
2021-05-06T02:49:59 < jadew> big mistake
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2021-05-06T05:02:14 < bitmask> altium, how do you have one polygon pour inside another
2021-05-06T05:02:40 < bitmask> i want it mostly a power plane but a small section for something else
2021-05-06T05:15:04 < R2COM> thats not typically how its done. one does "something else first" then encloses it with dynamic fill for any shape
2021-05-06T05:22:29 < bitmask> i see
2021-05-06T05:29:47 < bitmask> that worked
2021-05-06T05:53:31 < R2COM> why so much programs in linux require so much shit
2021-05-06T05:53:48 < R2COM> like even smallest obvious programs like some irc client...got like 10 dependencies
2021-05-06T05:53:56 < R2COM> fucking text software
2021-05-06T05:55:02 < _unreal_> R2COM, you have a lot of reason to do
2021-05-06T05:55:17 < R2COM> ?
2021-05-06T05:55:42 < _unreal_> one of the major differnces is in how for example microsoft executables operate vs how linux which is more of a script based OS work
2021-05-06T05:56:17 < R2COM> sounds like some nonsense
2021-05-06T05:56:28 < _unreal_> lot of reason meant to say lot of READING sorry
2021-05-06T05:56:35 < _unreal_> err
2021-05-06T05:56:36 < _unreal_> fuck
2021-05-06T05:56:42 < _unreal_> READING freaking AUTO CORRECT
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2021-05-06T06:57:01 < bitmask> why do vias have thermal relief by default
2021-05-06T07:06:03 < jpa-> in what weird cad tool do they?
2021-05-06T07:06:11 < jpa-> ah, altium
2021-05-06T07:06:26 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-06T07:11:04 < R2COM> im trying to find a way to get DDR4 design with open source tools
2021-05-06T07:11:21 < R2COM> im just mad at cadence
2021-05-06T08:25:14 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/6IchJcD
2021-05-06T08:26:16 < bitmask> one done one to go
2021-05-06T08:28:51 < zyp> bitmask, you just set priorities of the pours
2021-05-06T08:29:07 < bitmask> yea i figured it out
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2021-05-06T09:02:20 < jpa-> hmm, kicad / eeschema ngspice support is actually pretty good and usable
2021-05-06T09:14:50 < jpa-> except that i always get bit by the typical spice crap that "100M" is 0.1 and you have to write "100Meg"
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2021-05-06T09:57:11 < Steffanx> Don't do that jpa- 
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2021-05-06T09:59:45 < bitmask> oops, im a noob, i used a jst-xh for a power input connector and a xt30 for the pelter (8A), that jst connector woulda melted right off
2021-05-06T10:01:01 < bitmask> i need sleep before I make more dumb mistakes
2021-05-06T10:01:02 < bitmask> gnight
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2021-05-06T10:36:24 < antto> jpa-, which kicad version?
2021-05-06T10:36:35 -!- oofus [~quassel@185.93.28.67] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-06T10:47:36 < jpa-> antto: 5.1.9
2021-05-06T10:47:52 < antto> hm
2021-05-06T10:50:04 < jadew> came back from the doc
2021-05-06T10:50:08 < jadew> told me to eat less
2021-05-06T10:50:57 < jadew> she said exercise helps just a little :/
2021-05-06T10:51:09 < jadew> my plan was to keep eating the same crap I normally do and just exercise more
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2021-05-06T10:52:09 < effractur> jadew: help with what?
2021-05-06T10:52:14 < effractur> weightloss?
2021-05-06T10:52:29 < jpa-> jadew: how much do you exercise currently?
2021-05-06T10:52:37 < jadew> cholesterol
2021-05-06T10:52:45 < jadew> jpa-, quite a bit really
2021-05-06T10:53:00 < jpa-> yeah - hard to make a big difference then
2021-05-06T10:53:08 < effractur> cholestorol is mostly diet indeed
2021-05-06T10:53:09 < jadew> not since the vaccine tho, but before I had the blood tests done, I was doing about 2-3 workout sessions
2021-05-06T10:53:12 < jpa-> going from zero exercise to some exercise does make a difference
2021-05-06T10:53:14 < jadew> + running from time to time
2021-05-06T10:53:28 < ventyl> you can make a difference eating same crap, if you eat for shorter portion of day and a sliiiighly smaller amount
2021-05-06T10:53:30 < Steffanx> Proper sleep properly helps too
2021-05-06T10:53:38 < effractur> yup
2021-05-06T10:53:43 < effractur> but proper sleep is haaard
2021-05-06T10:53:49 < Steffanx> And perhaps more structure in your sleep pattern
2021-05-06T10:54:05 < jadew> yeah, that probably has an effect too
2021-05-06T10:54:23 < jadew> she wasn't too chatty, didn't give me much
2021-05-06T10:54:23 < Steffanx> Probably*
2021-05-06T10:54:35 < ventyl> you paid too little :>
2021-05-06T10:55:28 < jadew> didn't feel little
2021-05-06T10:55:33 < jadew> I was there for like 15 minutes
2021-05-06T10:55:56 < jadew> that included an EKG, ultrasound and all the story telling
2021-05-06T10:57:06 < jadew> I actually went for some chest pain that appeared after the second jab of the pfizer vaccine
2021-05-06T10:57:22 < jadew> she said it's probably a coincidence
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2021-05-06T11:22:36 < benishor> heh
2021-05-06T11:22:46 < benishor> I also had some chest pains after the pfizer jabs
2021-05-06T11:22:57 < benishor> but mostly after the first one
2021-05-06T11:23:30 < benishor> I got scared so I also got an ECG, x-ray for heart and lungs and d-dimer test
2021-05-06T11:24:06 < benishor> which thankfully were ok
2021-05-06T11:29:30 < antto> i still can't smell a pile of things
2021-05-06T11:30:07 < antto> one good example is muh cat's pee, which smells SO intense
2021-05-06T11:30:16 < effractur> no smell sounds horrible
2021-05-06T11:30:21 < antto> it is
2021-05-06T11:30:30 < effractur> its one of the few things i enjoy
2021-05-06T11:30:43 < qyx> smelling cat pee?
2021-05-06T11:30:45 < effractur> no
2021-05-06T11:30:48 < effractur> just smelling nice things
2021-05-06T11:41:31 < skz81> Not being able cat urine can lead to some social trouble, for a cat owner...
2021-05-06T12:01:08 < zyp> jadew, there's a saying «you can't outrun a bad diet»
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2021-05-06T12:27:06 < karlp> heh, nice one.
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2021-05-06T13:38:09 < mawk> my grandmother can't smell anything for many years
2021-05-06T13:38:14 < mawk> but she's still a great cook
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2021-05-06T13:48:31 < karlp> hehe, socomec sells 6cm rj45 cables :)
2021-05-06T13:49:15 < zyp> including the connectors? :)
2021-05-06T13:53:16 < karlp> including the connectors
2021-05-06T13:53:55 < zyp> so basically two connectors back to back?
2021-05-06T13:55:19 < karlp> maybe it's without? /me shrugs.
2021-05-06T13:55:21 < karlp> it's for this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/rk53C.png
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2021-05-06T15:45:42 < Steffann> 🍕
2021-05-06T15:46:34 < qyx> probably without
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2021-05-06T16:55:42 < karlp> heh, someone is complaining (again) abotu libmodbus using select() instead of poll() (it uses select so it works on windows too) and the problem is that _in the same app_ they are using more than 1024 fds already....
2021-05-06T16:55:56  * karlp suspects they should look at some other refactorings perhaps first.
2021-05-06T16:56:30 < zyp> heh
2021-05-06T16:56:33 < srk> ^^ :D
2021-05-06T16:59:27 < karlp> it even sort of looks like it's some internal developer at siemens https://github.com/stephane/libmodbus/issues/583
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2021-05-06T17:17:09 < Streaker> Using more than 1024 fds results in a buffer overflow?
2021-05-06T17:17:27 < Streaker> oh fortify. pls ignore.
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2021-05-06T17:32:13 < mawk> in selecf()
2021-05-06T17:32:15 < mawk> select()
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2021-05-06T17:49:08 < Laurenceb> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0pCO03XEAce9Pj?format=jpg&name=small
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2021-05-06T18:08:13 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/548641893760630824/839188682308583494/image0.png
2021-05-06T18:15:05 < karlp> anyone know how to see objdump stuff with godbolt? I want to look at alignment: https://godbolt.org/z/eo3M8nKxv
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2021-05-06T18:42:35 < jpa-> karlp: dunno, but as a workaround you could do  
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2021-05-06T18:42:41 < jpa-> uint32_t x = offsetof(struct a1, b4);
2021-05-06T18:43:36 < kakium69> offsetof?
2021-05-06T18:43:44 < kakium69> is that some standard function?
2021-05-06T18:43:45 < karlp> nah, I can do it by hand with objdump on the command line, not as pretty as offsetof, but it's easy to visually see the packing
2021-05-06T18:43:49 < karlp> yeah, ansi c.
2021-05-06T18:43:59 < kakium69> whaa
2021-05-06T18:44:04 < kakium69> lemme check
2021-05-06T18:44:18 < karlp> godbolt shows this "assembly source" which is...helpful normally I guess,
2021-05-06T18:44:28 < karlp> but not really handy for this at least.
2021-05-06T18:44:49 < karlp> apparently this is what pahole is for, which is an option on godbolt, but it just says "needs a binary" for me 
2021-05-06T18:45:25 < zyp> there's a «Compile to binary» option, which apparently is only available for clang
2021-05-06T18:45:33 < zyp> https://godbolt.org/z/c14dGsd5M
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2021-05-06T18:48:54 < karlp> hehe, added "-mcpu=cortex-m3" to that and it segfaulted clang
2021-05-06T18:49:14 < karlp> yeah, was hoping to do it with gcc, but eh, ok.
2021-05-06T18:51:59 < Laurenceb> looks like its voting time in uk
2021-05-06T18:52:06 < Laurenceb> u know who to vote for
2021-05-06T18:52:08 < Laurenceb> http://weatheraction.com/
2021-05-06T18:52:27 < kakium69> brexit?
2021-05-06T18:52:44 < jpa-> Laurenceb: did you figure out your +12V sensors?
2021-05-06T18:52:52 < Laurenceb> jpa-: nope
2021-05-06T18:53:08 < Laurenceb> Traco power have some DC-DC units that would work
2021-05-06T18:53:22 < Laurenceb> but I wondered if there was a simpler method
2021-05-06T18:53:56 < Laurenceb> kakium69: Jeremy Corbyns brother
2021-05-06T18:54:11 < kakium69> i have no idea Laurenceb
2021-05-06T18:54:11 < Laurenceb> is running for mayor on London
2021-05-06T18:54:14 < Laurenceb> *of
2021-05-06T18:54:16 < kakium69> ah
2021-05-06T18:54:37 < Laurenceb> >electric universe conference
2021-05-06T18:54:44 < Laurenceb> keek thats an emdrive meetup
2021-05-06T18:55:06 < Laurenceb> this site is like timecube
2021-05-06T18:55:27 < jpa-> Laurenceb: you could buffer the sensor GND with a buffer amp that is fed from +12V and PGND
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2021-05-06T18:56:16 < jpa-> and then have a whatever regulator from +12V with reference at buffered sensor_GND; then your sensor gets a supply that is referred to sensor_GND without actually putting any current through the sensor_GND wire
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2021-05-06T18:57:38 < Laurenceb> hmm actually I have an idea
2021-05-06T18:57:56 < Laurenceb> there is CAN down the main cable, and it needs a CAN GND reference
2021-05-06T18:58:14 < Laurenceb> I could use CAN isolator ICs, they are quite cheap, like $3
2021-05-06T18:58:59 < qyx> what for
2021-05-06T18:59:01 < Laurenceb> then an LDO from +12V to CAN GND to power each isolator
2021-05-06T18:59:32 < Laurenceb> the sensor GND can then be PGND
2021-05-06T18:59:57 < Laurenceb> only issue is the enclosure shield will fluctuate with respect to PGND
2021-05-06T19:00:18 < Laurenceb> probably not a big issue... I guess
2021-05-06T19:00:39 < bitmask> hi hi hi
2021-05-06T19:00:42 < karlp> fecking silabs.
2021-05-06T19:00:48 < Laurenceb> dunno if it saves much money, Traco power regs are UKP5 in quantity
2021-05-06T19:01:03 < Laurenceb> and CAN isolation is £2
2021-05-06T19:01:18 < qyx> idk if any digital isolators will block your interference
2021-05-06T19:01:29 < Laurenceb> unlikely that a decent Buck reg is <£3
2021-05-06T19:01:38 < karlp> call my kustom advertising function from their event callback, works.
2021-05-06T19:01:47 < Laurenceb> qyx: the problem would be if I used PGND as sensor GND
2021-05-06T19:01:58 < karlp> notify my task and call it from my task, get notifications at expected times, but ... advertising doesn't work anymore
2021-05-06T19:02:02 < Laurenceb> then enclosure shield (shield GND) would be bouncing around
2021-05-06T19:02:49 < Laurenceb> yeah I doubt this reduces the cost
2021-05-06T19:03:11 < Laurenceb> Traco power 12V->5V isolated DC-DC is cheap
2021-05-06T19:03:46  * Laurenceb gets back to lolreading the corbyn site
2021-05-06T19:03:57 < Laurenceb> maybe Corbyn did emdrive
2021-05-06T19:06:08 < karlp> I think I'm gonna need silabs support to fix this. 
2021-05-06T19:06:16 < Laurenceb> or Qanon is actually Corbyn, I wouldnt be surprised
2021-05-06T19:06:24 < karlp> shoulda stuck with stm32...
2021-05-06T19:06:28 < kakium69> how is bongland?
2021-05-06T19:07:47 < kakium69> is brexit done btw? I see my recent order of stuff from uk had duty fees
2021-05-06T19:08:43 < kakium69> is bongland visa free with EU Laurence?
2021-05-06T19:11:43 < Laurenceb> dunno lol
2021-05-06T19:11:51 < Laurenceb> cant go anywhere atm due to the virus
2021-05-06T19:12:13 < Laurenceb> http://bit.ly/2pzav48
2021-05-06T19:12:17 < Laurenceb> lol serious stuff
2021-05-06T19:12:26 < Laurenceb> keeeeek   >Alice Grant
2021-05-06T19:12:36 < kakium69> did you deport poles?
2021-05-06T19:12:45 < Laurenceb> they mostly left last year
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2021-05-06T19:14:07 < kakium69> really?
2021-05-06T19:14:20 < kakium69> due to brexit?
2021-05-06T19:14:30 < Laurenceb> yeah I was in the Bus station and it was full of Poles with their suitcases packed
2021-05-06T19:14:52 < kakium69> is it any better now?
2021-05-06T19:16:23 < Laurenceb> lol depends if you like poles or not
2021-05-06T19:16:45 < kakium69> in your view
2021-05-06T19:18:17 < kakium69> did bongs fill all those low wage jubbs?
2021-05-06T19:18:43 < kakium69> or are wages rising?
2021-05-06T19:20:34 < kakium69> or were those jubbs destroyed anyway by flu pandemic?
2021-05-06T19:22:00 < qyx> are there poles in buses?
2021-05-06T19:22:10 < qyx> Steffann has much experience with poles
2021-05-06T19:24:16 < bitmask> what connector you use for 10A?
2021-05-06T19:24:21 < bitmask> xt30?
2021-05-06T19:26:21 < kakium69> real amass ones
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2021-05-06T19:26:56 < bitmask> yea
2021-05-06T19:27:21 < kakium69> fakes are poo
2021-05-06T19:27:38 < bitmask> pretty sure mine are real
2021-05-06T19:28:03 < kakium69> there is less fakes than for xt60
2021-05-06T19:28:40 < bitmask> xt60 is excessive for this
2021-05-06T19:29:00 < kakium69> you know you have fake if while soldering contact melts of from the frame
2021-05-06T19:29:44 < qyx> 10A of what
2021-05-06T19:29:50 < qyx> milex minifit
2021-05-06T19:29:52 < qyx> molex
2021-05-06T19:30:14 < kakium69> powerpole!
2021-05-06T19:30:52 < bitmask> 12V (peltier)
2021-05-06T19:31:00 < boddax> who worked with GAL's 
2021-05-06T19:31:11 < boddax> or PLD ?
2021-05-06T19:31:53 < bitmask> i made a noob mistake, i had a xt30 for the peltier itself but only had jst-xh for power input :P woulda melted that right off
2021-05-06T19:33:32 < kakium69> maybe just use sn63 connector
2021-05-06T19:34:09 < bitmask> you talking about solder?
2021-05-06T19:34:47 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-06T19:35:01 < bitmask> oh wait
2021-05-06T19:35:05 < bitmask> what am i doing
2021-05-06T19:35:28 < bitmask> a pc molex connector is what i should be using since thats where im getting the power
2021-05-06T19:35:51 < qyx> which one
2021-05-06T19:35:58 < qyx> all are molexes
2021-05-06T19:36:00 < qyx> *molices
2021-05-06T19:36:15 < bitmask> i need +12V, GND, -12V
2021-05-06T19:36:25 < bitmask> so whatever has those 3 including
2021-05-06T19:36:28 < bitmask> included*
2021-05-06T19:36:32 < qyx> only the main ATX one
2021-05-06T19:36:37 < bitmask> oh really?
2021-05-06T19:36:42 < qyx> also keep in mind -12 V ATX is only 0.5 A or so
2021-05-06T19:36:50 < bitmask> yea thats plenty
2021-05-06T19:37:06 < bitmask> only using it for a temp sensor
2021-05-06T19:45:57 < hkl0> is it ok to use openocd to flash an stm for production?
2021-05-06T19:46:05 < hkl0> or should I just use st-flash
2021-05-06T19:47:14 < kakium69> whatever works
2021-05-06T19:48:36 < hkl0> ok because usually I see openocd follow by some options and I'm not entirelly sure if they can affect performance. E.g setting "arm semihisting enable"
2021-05-06T19:49:04 < hkl0> is this just something for openocd and won't affect the firmware during execution?
2021-05-06T19:50:29 < kakium69> you should google arm semihosting
2021-05-06T19:53:29 < qyx> your firmware is affected by the code itself
2021-05-06T19:53:54 < qyx> those openocd config options are for the debug session only
2021-05-06T19:54:10 < qyx> (except for flash programming, otp programming, some option bytes)
2021-05-06T19:54:31 < qyx> arm semihosting enable only enables semihosting support in openocd
2021-05-06T19:54:44 < qyx> if you are not using it in the firmware, nothing happens
2021-05-06T19:55:39 < hkl0> I'm aware of semihosting and I'm under the impression that you need to link with rdimon
2021-05-06T19:55:51 < hkl0> yes that's what I was wondering qyx. makes sense
2021-05-06T19:56:34 < qyx> yeah but rdimon has nothing to do with openocd
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2021-05-06T20:06:05 < kakium69> any recommendations for best 3d file browser for windows?
2021-05-06T20:06:54 < kakium69> not 3d files
2021-05-06T20:06:58 < kakium69> but files in 3d
2021-05-06T20:22:35 < Mangy_Dog> "its a unix system, i know this!"
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2021-05-06T20:26:44 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-06T20:26:46 < kakium69> I want it
2021-05-06T20:27:01 < kakium69> 3d file browsing
2021-05-06T20:42:56 < englishman> SphereXP
2021-05-06T20:46:28 < antto> kakium69, have u been watching too much fancy movies?
2021-05-06T20:47:11 < kakium69> I feel like I had some 3d browser in 2000s
2021-05-06T20:47:21 < kakium69> it might be a fake memory
2021-05-06T20:47:38 < kakium69> a lot of weird software.. more the better
2021-05-06T20:48:36 < kakium69> englishman: that's like 3d desktop thing
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2021-05-06T23:08:45 < bitmask> i always forget to leave room for mounting holes
2021-05-06T23:09:15 < bitmask> is two screws enough? :P
2021-05-06T23:11:36 < Steffann> Screw it.
2021-05-06T23:11:43 < Steffann> None.
2021-05-06T23:11:57 < Steffann> 3d print a slide in enclosure
2021-05-06T23:12:43 < bitmask> heh
2021-05-06T23:13:05 < bitmask> two screws and a printed enclosure
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2021-05-06T23:22:15 < bitmask> is there a button you hold down so when you drag a component in altium it only moves in one axis?
2021-05-06T23:23:15 < srk> foot pedal
2021-05-06T23:24:22 < tct> the second foot pedal from the left, to be exact.
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2021-05-06T23:25:32 < srk> yes, in pro version
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2021-05-06T23:27:48 < bitmask> oh you were being series? what is a foot pedal?
2021-05-06T23:28:05 < Laurenceb> noice
2021-05-06T23:28:13 < Laurenceb> linux mint taskbar is breaking again
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2021-05-06T23:28:46 < tct> bitmask, I don´t know about srk but I was certainly just building on what I believed to be a joke. If you want to get some altium knowledge I´d recommend to bother zyp 
2021-05-06T23:28:49 < tct> or dongs_
2021-05-06T23:29:00 < tct> or alitum support - they love that.
2021-05-06T23:29:22 < bitmask> oh haha
2021-05-06T23:29:39 < bitmask> wow i wrote series instead of serious
2021-05-06T23:29:43 < tct> sorry, didn´t mean to confuse you. that ´foot pedal´ answer just got me :p
2021-05-06T23:30:21 < bitmask> i thought he was fuckin around and then you made me think it was the name of some button grouping :P
2021-05-06T23:33:25 -!- BrainDamage [~braindama@unaffiliated/braindamage] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-05-06T23:34:30 < srk> :D
2021-05-06T23:34:52 < srk> such teamwork 
2021-05-06T23:38:53 < bitmask> ugh, i was hoping to finish the second pcb today but im still fucking around with the first
2021-05-06T23:43:03 < srk> get the second one from the left https://static.ideaconnection.com/images/inventions/l_computer-foot-pedals-4684.jpg
2021-05-06T23:43:30 < bitmask> youre really pushin it :P
2021-05-06T23:43:39 < srk> it will change your life
2021-05-06T23:43:47  * srk runs
2021-05-06T23:57:06  * Steffann gives tct the foot pedal for the  ' 
2021-05-06T23:58:22 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
--- Day changed Fri May 07 2021
2021-05-07T00:06:56 < englishman> lol srk
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2021-05-07T00:40:02 < tct> what do you think about giraffes?
2021-05-07T00:48:04 < qyx> is it a nickname for a kind of girls
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2021-05-07T01:04:29 < Xogium> hmm random question here but maybe folks can help ;) I want to connect some display to the seeed studio stm32mp157c odyssey board just for fun, see what its gpu can pull off with a sighted friend
2021-05-07T01:05:08 < Xogium> but I don't know which display to choose, I know its mipi dsi interface, but that's about it. Somehow all of those I find have capacitive touch but I don't want any of that
2021-05-07T01:05:20 < Xogium> I just want a plain display that well, only displays stuff :D
2021-05-07T01:06:25 < Xogium> I know the seeed board has apparently the same kind of connector for display you usually see on laptop, or at least that's what I've been told
2021-05-07T01:07:55 < Xogium> I was wondering if any of you guys could recommend some displays or at least have ideas where to look for such
2021-05-07T01:11:21 < qyx> maybe try raspberrypi displays? 
2021-05-07T01:11:26 < qyx> those with mipi dsi
2021-05-07T01:11:44 < Xogium> hmmm
2021-05-07T01:12:01 < Xogium> must say I didn't think of them, I didn't know they made some, in fact
2021-05-07T01:12:36 < zyp> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/display/
2021-05-07T01:12:58 < Xogium> heh, will have a look :)
2021-05-07T01:13:44 < Xogium> I often avoid rpi things, probably why I didn't know there were some lol
2021-05-07T01:15:18 < Xogium> oh its a touchscreen one though
2021-05-07T01:15:53 < Xogium> I suppose if not configured then the touhscreen part wouldn't do anything… But not sure ?
2021-05-07T01:16:01 < Xogium> *touchscreen
2021-05-07T01:16:40 < Xogium> still this looks like it could probably work. The odyssey board from seeed is having rpi compatible form factor and pins
2021-05-07T01:18:59 < Xogium> that gpu looks to have quite a bit of potential though, and that's rather cool. I'm not one to care about gpu usually, but I do make an exception for open hardware :D
2021-05-07T01:19:54 < Xogium> probably not a powerhouse but 3d accelerated graphics on a gpu sounds good to me
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2021-05-07T02:00:04 < jadew> zyp, I'll have to remember that saying, it's good
2021-05-07T02:00:35 < jadew> benishor, yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence, but if they say it's ok, it's probably ok
2021-05-07T02:00:58 < jadew> antto, you lost your smell from the vaccine or from the disease?
2021-05-07T02:43:37 < tct> jadew, his smell or his sense of smell?
2021-05-07T02:59:38 < kakium69> both
2021-05-07T02:59:44 < kakium69> mysteriously at same time
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2021-05-07T03:32:16 < jadew> lol kakium69 
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2021-05-07T06:52:38 < antto> jadew, i don't have a vaccine
2021-05-07T06:53:17 < antto> i got ill from <something> in march this year
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2021-05-07T07:42:06 < R2COM> trying to build arm-none-eabi- on freebsd
2021-05-07T07:42:19 < R2COM> my bmp probe i think is see on ttyU0 as well
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2021-05-07T09:25:18 < Steffanx> jadew:  he had the symptoms but refused to get tested... -_-
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2021-05-07T13:11:30 < jadew> fashion shows have been upgraded during the pandemic
2021-05-07T13:12:11 < jadew> because they couldn't have an audience, they made them more artsy
2021-05-07T13:13:44 < jadew> antto, you know you could have tested yourself right?
2021-05-07T13:15:01 < jadew> I think it's like 10 EUR for two tests
2021-05-07T13:25:33 < Steffanx> He was afraid the government.bg would take him and put him into an hospital bed
2021-05-07T13:26:01 < Steffanx> a*
2021-05-07T13:28:52 < Steffanx> So do you feel connected, jadew?
2021-05-07T13:29:34 < jadew> with who?
2021-05-07T13:30:17 < Steffanx> Everyone. 5G. 
2021-05-07T13:31:09 < jadew> I don't, but that's probably because it happened gradually
2021-05-07T13:31:42 < jadew> I feel like I'm connected with a lot of people I don't care about
2021-05-07T13:32:39 < Steffanx> Home comes you, with your relatively young age, are already done? Same with the other .ro guy here benishor (??)
2021-05-07T13:32:59 < Steffanx> It's not going from 999 to 0 years old? Like here?
2021-05-07T13:33:38 < Steffanx> Or can anyone who wants just make an appointment?
2021-05-07T13:34:39 < jadew> done in what sense? are you talking about the EKG stuff or the loneliness?
2021-05-07T13:35:55 < jadew> if you're talking about the EKG, yeah, obviously, it was a private clinic
2021-05-07T13:36:23 < jadew> I paid for the EKG in advance - didn't wait for the doctor to recommend it, I just wanted it done
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2021-05-07T13:40:29 < jadew> as for the loneliness, I don't feel that lonely, IRC feels like a sitcom... like friends
2021-05-07T13:40:57 < jadew> and I also have the girls from the fashion shows, so it's like super rich "Friends" on a yacht
2021-05-07T13:41:32 < jadew> what more can one ask?
2021-05-07T13:43:08 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/diff_amp_rev2.png    using brass standoffs for soldering down triax cable :)
2021-05-07T13:43:55 < karlp> what are you building now?
2021-05-07T13:44:11 < karlp> and what are those j5/j6 on the edge?
2021-05-07T13:44:22 < jadew> jpa-, nice, doesn't it have a little too much thermal mass?
2021-05-07T13:44:22 < jpa-> differential probe/tweezer thingy
2021-05-07T13:45:06 < jpa-> karlp: spring contacts for detachable tips  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/rev1_opa659.jpg
2021-05-07T13:45:43 < jpa-> jadew: dunno yet - plan is to reflow them to place with normal RoHS solder and then solder the cable with 150°C bismuth solder
2021-05-07T13:45:59 < jpa-> cable has PTFE insulation so should be able to take the heat
2021-05-07T13:46:56 < jadew> if it's PTFE it should take lead free temperatures too
2021-05-07T13:47:26 < jpa-> sure, but then the standoff would detach from the board when trying to solder the cable
2021-05-07T13:48:16 < jadew> ah, I understand your plan now
2021-05-07T13:48:27  * jadew hasn't slept since yesterday
2021-05-07T13:55:55 < qyx> anyone using cmsis-dsp?
2021-05-07T13:56:05  * karlp 
2021-05-07T13:56:21 < karlp> not very much mind you,
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2021-05-07T13:56:34 < karlp> I believe we use mean, sqrt, and iir_biquad_df1.
2021-05-07T13:56:51 < jpa-> i've used FFT from it
2021-05-07T13:56:53 < qyx> so no rfft
2021-05-07T13:56:56 < qyx> oh
2021-05-07T13:57:04 < qyx> any idea whats the right buffer size for it?
2021-05-07T13:57:14 < qyx> they are super secret about it
2021-05-07T13:57:42 < qyx> https://arm-software.github.io/CMSIS_5/DSP/html/group__RealFFT.html
2021-05-07T13:57:55 < qyx> me dumb or theres not much to understand
2021-05-07T13:58:11 < qyx> random internet googles don't know either
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2021-05-07T13:59:32 < qyx> it looks to me you have to pack your data as q15_t[4096] to perform a 4096-sized RFFT
2021-05-07T14:00:11 < qyx> which is actually a buffer of 2048 complex numbers q15_t, q15_t
2021-05-07T14:00:43 < qyx> it should internally perform 2048 CFFT
2021-05-07T14:00:47 < jpa-> qyx: http://paste.dy.fi/nqm/plain   this is relevant parts of my code
2021-05-07T14:00:58 < qyx> which should give 2048 complex pairs
2021-05-07T14:01:04 < jpa-> q15 probably works similarly except of course float vs. q15_t
2021-05-07T14:01:32 < qyx> but hey, they say "    If the input buffer is of length N, the output buffer must have length 2*N. The input buffer is modified by this function. "
2021-05-07T14:01:56 < qyx> nope, float works for me, q15 doesn't
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2021-05-07T14:13:04 < qyx> it shits random values over the rest of the struct, outbuf probably really needs to be FFTLEN*2
2021-05-07T14:15:10 < emeryth> I've used it once, and both input and output buffer were FFTLEN*2
2021-05-07T14:15:49 < qyx> maybe theres difference in the fast and no-fast algo
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2021-05-07T14:16:43 < qyx> fast packs input as in1.r = real1, in1.i = real2, in2.r = real3, in2.i = real4...
2021-05-07T14:18:51 < Steffanx> Done as in got the vaccine, jadew
2021-05-07T14:21:24 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, anyone can get it
2021-05-07T14:22:40 < jadew> we had Phase 1: medical personnel, Phase 2: Elder people and people with high risk and Phase 3: everyone else and that one started more than a month ago
2021-05-07T14:22:52 < jadew> maybe 2 months?
2021-05-07T14:23:04 < qyx> yeah q15/q31, float and float-fast are three different algos
2021-05-07T14:23:08 < jadew> and now it's not even with registration, you just show up
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2021-05-07T14:47:19 < Steffanx> Goodmorning sir bitmask 
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2021-05-07T14:51:36 < tct> hey o/
2021-05-07T14:51:52 < tct> how's "Steffanx" doing on this day?
2021-05-07T14:59:43 < qyx> re fft: back to float-fast, works
2021-05-07T15:01:59 < emeryth> fixed point is not really faster anyway
2021-05-07T15:02:28 < qyx> I was more concerned with the memory footprint
2021-05-07T15:02:43 < qyx> but it turns out q15 would be the same
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2021-05-07T15:05:46 < qyx> jadew: how many % are vaccinated?
2021-05-07T15:19:28 < karlp> emeryth: .... that very much depends :)
2021-05-07T15:20:14 < Steffanx> I`m doing good tct. Just work. Answering emails.
2021-05-07T15:20:24 < Steffanx> And how`s mr tct this day?
2021-05-07T15:20:31 < tct> Steffanx, doing fine :)
2021-05-07T15:21:03 < Steffanx> Did your gf bring the proper waffles back to the Swiss land?
2021-05-07T15:53:32 < karlp> man, mousers price sorting is fucking trash
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2021-05-07T15:55:04 < ventyl> is there any practical way how to find out, why SW landed in blocking_handler?
2021-05-07T15:55:29 < ventyl> ah, NVIC should hold ID of active handler
2021-05-07T15:55:44 < karlp> see zypsnips/armv7m-vecstate-zippe.gdb
2021-05-07T15:55:54 < karlp> (gdb macros to decode it for you)
2021-05-07T15:56:00 < ventyl> understood
2021-05-07T15:56:03 < ventyl> kthx
2021-05-07T16:22:40 < ventyl> Handling vector 35
2021-05-07T16:22:45 < ventyl> from idle_thread
2021-05-07T16:22:52 < ventyl> something serious is going on there
2021-05-07T16:30:23 < ventyl> ah, fdcan handlers weren't picked up
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2021-05-07T16:57:58 < jadew> qyx, 33.631%
2021-05-07T16:58:55 < jadew> +- 2% :)
2021-05-07T16:59:03 < jadew> forgot I have ±
2021-05-07T17:00:46 < jadew> ah, no, my data is wrong
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2021-05-07T17:01:09 < jadew> only 11% fully vaccinated and 8.4% total
2021-05-07T17:01:17 < jadew> how the hell does that work...
2021-05-07T17:01:34 < jadew> stupid google, has crap data
2021-05-07T17:02:10 < jadew> 8.4% - that's probably the best number
2021-05-07T17:03:37 < jadew> karlp, you can also filter by qty, it doesn't work well, but it removes some of the clutter
2021-05-07T17:03:59 < jadew> which reminds me I have to place an order
2021-05-07T17:04:06 < englishman> isn't that quite low? we are already at 40% single dose
2021-05-07T17:04:33 < jadew> englishman, that's fully vaccinated
2021-05-07T17:04:38 < jadew> 8.4%
2021-05-07T17:04:43 < englishman> ah
2021-05-07T17:04:48 < englishman> nice
2021-05-07T17:05:02 < jadew> I expressed myself poorly
2021-05-07T17:05:22 < jadew> it's not great tho, I think that's why it's free for all now
2021-05-07T17:06:05 < englishman> the next weeks it is supposed to rise to almost 2% per day
2021-05-07T17:06:10 < englishman> which is quite amazing when you think about it
2021-05-07T17:06:40 < jadew> 2% increase in fully vaccinated per day?
2021-05-07T17:06:51 < englishman> doses
2021-05-07T17:06:59 < jadew> ah
2021-05-07T17:07:13 < jadew> yeah, it's amazing how well they've mobilized
2021-05-07T17:07:43 < englishman> pfizer has a 70-95% (k=2 confidence) efficacity after a single dose
2021-05-07T17:08:13 < jadew> so the second one is kinda pointless
2021-05-07T17:08:15 < englishman> and pfizer is the bulk of deliveries now
2021-05-07T17:08:16 < jadew> and it also hurts
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2021-05-07T17:08:38 < jadew> yeah, but their stock plummeted yesterday because of what biden said about the IP
2021-05-07T17:08:59 < jadew> looks like it might be recovering
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2021-05-07T17:18:52 < karlp> jadew: no, if I put in a qty, it still behaves like trash, it removes teh price breaks, but doesn't actually resort by the new limit...
2021-05-07T17:19:17 < karlp> anyway, I was msot of the way through alternates for mosuer to avoid shipping charges from dk, then ran into a hard out of stock limit on one part :)
2021-05-07T17:19:37 < karlp> had to switch it all back to the digikey version and bite the shipping 
2021-05-07T17:28:35 < jpa-> hmm, got usb-c cable from china with purple connectors; i wonder what that is code for - conforms to USB 2.5?
2021-05-07T17:42:38 < kakium69> c stands for chinese
2021-05-07T17:46:47 < mawk> ooooooooooo
2021-05-07T17:46:51 < mawk> I'm bored
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2021-05-07T17:56:55 < qyx> jadew: thats probably the reason you have no contraints anymore
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2021-05-07T18:26:30 < jadew> qyx, we do
2021-05-07T18:26:39 < jadew> but they're getting relaxed
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2021-05-07T18:42:43 < ventyl> jpa-: i got chineese clonesium. it also came with purple connectors and probably silicon insulation. it seems to be one of higher quality cables i've ever seen
2021-05-07T19:08:51 < kakium69> have you ever considered to establish an import company for some weird cool crazy product?
2021-05-07T19:10:10 < BrainDamage> my sister did, fortunately did never follow
2021-05-07T19:10:47 < kakium69> it went belly up?
2021-05-07T19:11:08 < BrainDamage> it was a machine where'd you design a nail pattern and it'd print it to your nails
2021-05-07T19:11:30 < BrainDamage> made into a sort of kiosk/booth you'd find in a supermaket
2021-05-07T19:11:45 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-07T19:11:58 < kakium69> I have seen video
2021-05-07T19:12:00 < BrainDamage> someone else tried to export, it flopped
2021-05-07T19:12:27 < BrainDamage> asiatic cultures enjoy that stuff, elsewhere, not as much to sustain a business
2021-05-07T19:12:43 < BrainDamage> so china, japan, etc you'd sell
2021-05-07T19:12:46 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-07T19:13:14 < kakium69> she is entrepreneur type?
2021-05-07T19:13:33 < englishman> sounds like a mall kiosk type biz that would last a month or two
2021-05-07T19:13:34 < BrainDamage> her husband more, it was both of them
2021-05-07T19:14:25 < fenugrec> anyone here using stripe to get paid for oddjobs etc?
2021-05-07T19:14:51 < kakium69> BrainDamage: how exposed they were?
2021-05-07T19:14:57 < BrainDamage> englishman: yeah, no future outside asia
2021-05-07T19:15:07 < englishman> maybe south italy
2021-05-07T19:15:14 < BrainDamage> kakium69: you're asking more detail than I know
2021-05-07T19:15:26 < kakium69> ye.. aside the point anyway
2021-05-07T19:19:14 < englishman> 3% doesnt look bad vs. a credit card processor, but as a small biz doing odd jobs why not just EFTs / wealthsimple cash?
2021-05-07T19:19:51 < englishman> every canadian biz you work with is going to accept EFTs
2021-05-07T19:21:18 < englishman> square could be handy for international
2021-05-07T19:25:13 < fenugrec> englishman, yeah, not sure how EFT work for international (mostly US in my case)
2021-05-07T19:25:44 < englishman> EFTs are canuck only
2021-05-07T19:25:50 < englishman> are you dealing with people or businesses?
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2021-05-07T19:30:30 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/JsyxvNd
2021-05-07T19:30:34 < bitmask> those caps look huge
2021-05-07T19:31:26 < kakium69> what do you have there?
2021-05-07T19:31:28 < fenugrec> englishman, 99% people
2021-05-07T19:31:34 < kakium69> 2 x 1000uF?
2021-05-07T19:32:35 < englishman> are you doing invoicing?
2021-05-07T19:32:47 < englishman> ive heard good things about: stripe, quickbooks payments, zoho payments
2021-05-07T19:33:03 < bitmask> 470u
2021-05-07T19:33:07 < englishman> i use zoho books myself, quickbooks is also ok but has even more bugs
2021-05-07T19:33:08 < bitmask> 50V
2021-05-07T19:34:04 < englishman> (don't use zoho payments)
2021-05-07T19:35:11 < englishman> if i was starting again today id probably use quickbooks
2021-05-07T19:37:03 < fenugrec> englishman, thanks. I'm at a minuscule scale... I've done "proper" invoices only once or twice, usually amounts and frequency are very small
2021-05-07T19:38:09 < englishman> you'd probably really prefer something with no monthly fees then
2021-05-07T19:38:46 < fenugrec> yeah definitely. Hence my looking at stripe. I mean, by default I've been using PP
2021-05-07T19:40:03 < antto> jadew, like test for corizzle vizzle?
2021-05-07T19:42:40 < antto> the so called "omg omg ur infectz0r3d" tests
2021-05-07T19:44:03 < englishman> pp gets expensive quick
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2021-05-07T19:53:09 < fenugrec> indeed
2021-05-07T19:53:38 < fenugrec> should probably also open a USD bank account eventually
2021-05-07T19:55:10 < jpa-> transferwise is quite handy
2021-05-07T19:59:51 < karlp> have heard good things abotu transferwise, never used it though
2021-05-07T20:01:28 < fenugrec> jpa-, thanks, I might try that too. stripe seems to be more business-oriented than I currently am
2021-05-07T20:02:25 < kakium69> anyone know what whatsapp new licence terms are about?
2021-05-07T20:17:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-05-07T20:20:52 < fenugrec> I think I'll give trasfnerwise a try. If it sucks, I'll be in ##stm32-complaints
2021-05-07T20:24:39 < englishman> i wonder how much they paid for wise.com
2021-05-07T20:29:22 < fenugrec> it redirected to  symantec around 2011 it seems
2021-05-07T20:31:45 < englishman> Wise.com was previously used by Symantec’s Wise Package Studio.
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2021-05-07T20:38:25 < Steffanx> I recall jadew complained about stripe a lot. Not sure if that's because jadew or because stripe :P
2021-05-07T20:44:00 < fenugrec> wise terms of use : "  You are not permitted to receive payments by other payment methods, including cash, mailed check, or electronic check.  ". Uuhh....
2021-05-07T20:44:16 < fenugrec> " you agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee solely for accepting payment through a Service offered by Wise"
2021-05-07T20:44:16 < ventyl> heh
2021-05-07T20:47:01 < machinehum> ##stm32-complaints empty
2021-05-07T20:47:03 < machinehum> Juse me
2021-05-07T20:47:05 < machinehum> just
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2021-05-07T20:50:33 < fenugrec> why, did you have complaints
2021-05-07T20:52:13 < englishman> pp can be cheaper than wise for simple usd->cad
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2021-05-07T21:22:19 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_vcZBwv2ZA musics
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2021-05-07T21:51:09 < mid-kid> I'm reading about USB VBUS detection in AN4879, and it mentions pin A9 being dedicated to it, yet I can't find anything about it in the L4 manual. So I looked in the USB library, and USBD_SELF_POWERED exists but there doesn't seem to be anything to do vbus detection.
2021-05-07T21:51:38 < mid-kid> Am I supposed to just assign it a random GPIO pin and interrupt and do it myself, or is there some built-in method I'm missing?
2021-05-07T22:05:58 < mawk> no
2021-05-07T22:06:01 < mawk> it's a bultin thing mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:06:03 < mawk> look in pinout
2021-05-07T22:06:05 < mawk> also the pin isn't 5V tolerant iirc
2021-05-07T22:06:07 < mawk> so you need voltage divider
2021-05-07T22:09:02 < mid-kid> I'm not seeing it in the pinout either
2021-05-07T22:09:11 < mid-kid> L412C8 btw
2021-05-07T22:09:26 < mid-kid> all its gpio pins are 5V tolerant
2021-05-07T22:09:39 < mawk> yeah but it's not a regular pin
2021-05-07T22:09:44 < mawk> ok let me try to find
2021-05-07T22:27:50 < qyx> is there anything unregular?
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2021-05-07T22:31:55 < mawk> I forgot to look mid-kid lol
2021-05-07T22:31:57 < mawk> let me look now
2021-05-07T22:32:11 < mawk> qyx: pins that can't be used for gpios?
2021-05-07T22:32:15 < mawk> that would be my definition
2021-05-07T22:32:19 < mawk> or non-FT weird pins
2021-05-07T22:32:20 < mawk> on other chip
2021-05-07T22:32:47 < mid-kid> I mean PA9 (as mentioned in the application note) is a regular pin
2021-05-07T22:32:59 < mid-kid> as in, it's a gpio pin with alternate functions
2021-05-07T22:33:11 < mawk> well then you found it in the manual?
2021-05-07T22:33:19 < mawk> that's your vbus detect pin then
2021-05-07T22:33:28 < mawk> if it's FT then wire it directly to VBUS I guess
2021-05-07T22:33:29 < mid-kid> not in the datasheet specific to my chip
2021-05-07T22:33:30 < mawk> and that's it
2021-05-07T22:33:33 < mid-kid> just in an app note
2021-05-07T22:33:39 < mawk> that's probably good enough
2021-05-07T22:33:40 < mid-kid> so I'm unsure how to turn it on/use it
2021-05-07T22:34:01 < mawk> you just wire it to VBUS I think
2021-05-07T22:34:08 < mawk> and that's it
2021-05-07T22:34:34 < mawk> I'm checking
2021-05-07T22:34:49 < mid-kid> really? what about when your device is powered by vbus? The app note specifically says you don't need vbus detection in that case
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2021-05-07T22:35:05 < mid-kid> so I'd assume there'd be a toggle or register somewhere
2021-05-07T22:35:25 < mawk> if it's somewhere I'd say it's in the usb peripheral
2021-05-07T22:35:25 < mid-kid> AN4879 btw
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2021-05-07T22:35:36 < mid-kid> I looked there but I can't find it...
2021-05-07T22:36:49 < qyx> zyp knows, let's invoke him
2021-05-07T22:36:59 < zyp> hmm?
2021-05-07T22:37:04 < mid-kid> oh and the pin listing for my device doesn't list it as an alternate function anywhere either
2021-05-07T22:37:13 < mawk> read the paragraph about it being 5V tolerant mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:37:21 < mawk> that's what I remembered about needing to have a voltage divider
2021-05-07T22:37:26 < mawk> well some chips don't have that pin mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:37:42 < qyx> zyp: USB VDET detection on L412, is it a dedicated peripheral pin or a generic GPIO?
2021-05-07T22:37:47 < zyp> L4 has the OTG core, right?
2021-05-07T22:38:08 < mid-kid> Don't think so, datasheet says nothing about OTG.
2021-05-07T22:38:21 < zyp> hang on, let me check the RM then
2021-05-07T22:38:29 < mawk> mid-kid: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210507213824152.png
2021-05-07T22:38:33 < mawk> see, it wants <= 4V
2021-05-07T22:38:35 < qyx> USB 2.0 full-speed crystal less solution
2021-05-07T22:38:36 < qyx> with LPM and BCD
2021-05-07T22:38:45 < zyp> ah, no vbus detection then
2021-05-07T22:39:10 < mid-kid> mawk: It wants <= 4V if the mcu is not powered...
2021-05-07T22:39:15 < zyp> the phy for the otg cores includes a vbus comparator, but the device only cores does not
2021-05-07T22:39:23 < mid-kid> first paragraph says PA9 is 5V tolerant
2021-05-07T22:39:27 < mawk> if the mcu is powered by usb you don't need sensing anyway mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:39:36 < mawk> so there's no point wiring it
2021-05-07T22:39:47 < zyp> mid-kid, PA9 is what the OTG cores are using
2021-05-07T22:39:53 < mid-kid> aahhhh
2021-05-07T22:40:14 < zyp> so yeah
2021-05-07T22:40:15 < mid-kid> So can I do it by software?
2021-05-07T22:40:21 < zyp> if you want to, yes
2021-05-07T22:40:24 < mid-kid> cool.
2021-05-07T22:40:35 < mid-kid> Well, thanks for looking into it.
2021-05-07T22:40:40 < mid-kid> I was getting confused.
2021-05-07T22:41:04 < zyp> is your device self- or bus powered?
2021-05-07T22:41:07 < mid-kid> self
2021-05-07T22:41:13 < zyp> okay
2021-05-07T22:41:58 < zyp> to be fully spec compliant a self powered device shouldn't present the D+ pullup before VBUS is present, but in practice it doesn't really matter much
2021-05-07T22:42:33 < zyp> it can still be useful to shut down the usb stuff to e.g. save battery when usb is not connected, but otherwise I wouldn't really bother
2021-05-07T22:42:43 < mid-kid> Right
2021-05-07T22:43:09 < mid-kid> Yeah, it seems useful enough for that purpose, at least.
2021-05-07T22:43:43 < mawk> you can make your own detect pin using a gpio if you want to do that probably
2021-05-07T22:43:48 < zyp> yes
2021-05-07T22:44:11 < zyp> and as you mentioned before, 5V tolerant means Vdd+4V, so when Vdd is off the pins are only 4V tolerant
2021-05-07T22:44:37 < zyp> so if Vdd can be off while VBUS is on, you might want to limit it
2021-05-07T22:44:55 < zyp> e.g. do a 2/3 resistor divider so you get 3.3V when VBUS is present
2021-05-07T22:44:57 < mid-kid> Yeah, that makes sense.
2021-05-07T22:45:53 < mawk> as long as it's above 2/3 VDD it's detected as a ON
2021-05-07T22:45:59 < mawk> and below 1/3 it's OFF
2021-05-07T22:46:00 < mid-kid> Since we're already on the topic, if my device is powered by 2.5v on vdd, can I make it so the vddusb pin is only powered when vbus is plugged?
2021-05-07T22:46:10 < mawk> powered ?
2021-05-07T22:46:16 < mid-kid> That's the main reason I was looking into vbus sensing...
2021-05-07T22:46:16 < mawk> vddusb is a power input
2021-05-07T22:46:29 < zyp> ah
2021-05-07T22:46:56 < zyp> IIRC vddusb powers a bunch of IO buffers including the ones used for USB, since USB needs 3V
2021-05-07T22:47:12 < mid-kid> yeah, datasheet recommends hooking vddusb up to vdd if not in use
2021-05-07T22:47:16 < mid-kid> but doesn't say much beyond that
2021-05-07T22:47:20 < mawk> well then if vddusb isn't connected, nothing will be sinking current
2021-05-07T22:47:35 < zyp> you might want to do a diode-OR to supply it
2021-05-07T22:47:42 < mawk> I don't think it would consume current to let it float
2021-05-07T22:47:48 < zyp> so it's always powered, either with 2.5V or 3.3V
2021-05-07T22:48:00 < mawk> the datasheet recommends hooking it up to vdd if you are always self-powered because it's necessary for USB functionality
2021-05-07T22:48:04 < qyx> mawk: yeah I know this story with VDDA
2021-05-07T22:48:06 < mid-kid> zyp: That was my primary intuition, so thanks for confirming.
2021-05-07T22:48:16 < qyx> yeah, yolo and leave it floating when you don't use ADC!
2021-05-07T22:48:19 < mid-kid> I was unsure if that was a good idea
2021-05-07T22:48:29 < mawk> did it work great qyx ?
2021-05-07T22:48:34 < zyp> doesn't work at all
2021-05-07T22:48:41 < qyx> doesn't even connect using SWD
2021-05-07T22:48:44 < mawk> lol
2021-05-07T22:48:49 < zyp> VDDA also powers reset circuitry, so it never leaves reset if you leave out VDDA
2021-05-07T22:48:55 < mawk> maybe vdda was needed for an internal comparator
2021-05-07T22:48:56 < mawk> yeah
2021-05-07T22:48:59 < mawk> brownout stuff I guess
2021-05-07T22:49:10 < mawk> but vddusb is just for usb stuff
2021-05-07T22:49:27 < mid-kid> ah
2021-05-07T22:49:36 < mid-kid> so leaving it floating is probably fine too?
2021-05-07T22:49:47 < zyp> I'd prefer to leave it out, for simplification, but I'd read the documentation around that very carefully before I attempted that
2021-05-07T22:50:43 < zyp> but if you want you can just yolo it and blame mawk if it ends up not working :)
2021-05-07T22:50:49 < mid-kid> hue
2021-05-07T22:50:50 < mawk> lol
2021-05-07T22:51:12 < mawk> if you never use usb, mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:51:19 < mawk> if you intend to use usb, you need it connected to vbus
2021-05-07T22:51:24 < mawk> since your vdd is 2.5V you need it
2021-05-07T22:51:26 < mid-kid> yeah ofc
2021-05-07T22:51:35 < zyp> not to vbus, but to 3.3V derived from vbus
2021-05-07T22:51:43 < mid-kid> yeah yeah
2021-05-07T22:51:43 < mawk> uh yes
2021-05-07T22:51:56 < mid-kid> I just mean leaving it floating when vbus isn't connected
2021-05-07T22:52:04 < mawk> or 3.3V derived from your vdd if you're a special kind of masoschist
2021-05-07T22:52:10 < zyp> :)
2021-05-07T22:52:13 < mawk> well the OR-diode would do exactly that mid-kid 
2021-05-07T22:52:13 < mid-kid> instead of diode-or, but I think diode-or is safer
2021-05-07T22:52:20 < mawk> it would be floating
2021-05-07T22:52:20 < mid-kid> ah
2021-05-07T22:52:25 < mawk> I assume
2021-05-07T22:53:06 < mawk> the diode is just like taking the max of the two power supplies
2021-05-07T22:53:24 < mawk> instead of an actual diode you have special perfect diode ICs for power OR-ing
2021-05-07T22:53:37 < zyp> that's really overkill
2021-05-07T22:53:39 < mawk> with low voltage drop, like if you want to use battery
2021-05-07T22:53:43 < mawk> maybe yes
2021-05-07T22:53:49 < mid-kid> Anyway, thanks a ton. I think I know enough now to implement this right.
2021-05-07T22:53:57 < zyp> good luck :)
2021-05-07T22:54:33 < mawk> anyway it's alright if you don't get it right on first try
2021-05-07T22:54:35 < mawk> except for your wallet
2021-05-07T22:54:39 < mawk> that's how learning works
2021-05-07T22:55:01 < mawk> and you'll be feeding the families of jlcpcb staff, think about them and don't hesitate to order large quantities
2021-05-07T22:55:48 < zyp> I'm waiting for a $500 pcb that I'm not sure will be working
2021-05-07T22:56:07 < zyp> I hope it will be, shame if it's not :)
2021-05-07T22:56:29 < qyx> did you draw it
2021-05-07T22:56:52 < zyp> yeah, it's this shit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/e4wot.png
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2021-05-07T22:57:17 < qyx> why is it 500?
2021-05-07T22:57:26 < qyx> whats the pithc of the bga?
2021-05-07T22:57:40 < zyp> because I didn't do jlcpcb
2021-05-07T22:57:41 < mawk> does that include pcba zyp 
2021-05-07T22:57:47 < zyp> no
2021-05-07T22:57:54 < mawk> is it rhodium plated then?
2021-05-07T22:58:02 < zyp> just a hundred and something bare boards
2021-05-07T22:58:12 < mawk> ah right
2021-05-07T22:58:21 < mawk> why order a hundred if you're not sure though
2021-05-07T22:58:22 < qyx> without a proto?
2021-05-07T22:58:32 < qyx> with a ddr?
2021-05-07T22:58:32 < mawk> maybe you're 90% sure it will work
2021-05-07T22:58:34 < zyp> because that was MOQ
2021-05-07T22:58:35 < mawk> then I understand
2021-05-07T22:58:37 < mawk> ah
2021-05-07T22:58:46 < mawk> why not jlcpcb then? they don't have the proper tolerances?
2021-05-07T22:58:48 < qyx> aisler didn't want to do it?
2021-05-07T22:59:22 < zyp> should be within jlcpcb specs, just didn't bother
2021-05-07T22:59:52 < qyx> then aisler would do
2021-05-07T23:00:01 < zyp> do they assemble?
2021-05-07T23:00:11 < qyx> yes but I didn't try
2021-05-07T23:00:29 < zyp> if jlcpcb would do double sided assembly with arbitrary parts, I could have done that
2021-05-07T23:00:39 < qyx> jlc was single sided only
2021-05-07T23:00:46 < zyp> yeah, and only lcsc parts
2021-05-07T23:00:52 < qyx> and afaik only from their library
2021-05-07T23:00:56 < zyp> yes
2021-05-07T23:01:06 < qyx> aisler should be able to source dk/mouser/whatever
2021-05-07T23:01:13 < qyx> I checked their bom tool
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2021-05-07T23:01:57 < zyp> bga pitch is 0.8, so it's not a HDI board or anything
2021-05-07T23:02:04 < qyx> 4L ENIG is actually cheaper using aisler
2021-05-07T23:02:06 < qyx> than jlcpcb
2021-05-07T23:02:43 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qGj0M/orbtrace_mini.pdf <- there's layout plots at the end of this
2021-05-07T23:04:10 < qyx> on it's not ddr
2021-05-07T23:04:30 < zyp> hyperbus is ddr, strictly speaking :p
2021-05-07T23:04:55 < zyp> hoping to run it at 200MHz
2021-05-07T23:05:37 < zyp> should do 3.2 Gb/s or so, minus protocol overhead
2021-05-07T23:05:57 < zyp> not that I'm gonna need it, but still
2021-05-07T23:06:37 < qyx> whats that lfe5u
2021-05-07T23:06:44 < zyp> ecp5
2021-05-07T23:06:51 < zyp> i.e. a fpga
2021-05-07T23:07:19 < qyx> and are the oss tools mature enough?
2021-05-07T23:07:23 < qyx> last I looked into ice40
2021-05-07T23:07:27 < zyp> yes
2021-05-07T23:07:27 < qyx> then I gave up
2021-05-07T23:08:13 < zyp> both ice40 and ecp5 have pretty mature oss toolchains now
2021-05-07T23:08:27 < qyx> so litex and yosys?
2021-05-07T23:08:29 < zyp> ice40 is just too small to be much fun
2021-05-07T23:08:55 < zyp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/N6VJQ.jpg <- I've got a proof of concept running on a devboard here
2021-05-07T23:09:03 < zyp> full working cmsis-dap
2021-05-07T23:09:27 < zyp> planning to eventually port blackmagic to a soft-cpu running on it too
2021-05-07T23:10:05 < qyx> Linux on LiteX-Vexriscv:
2021-05-07T23:10:05 < qyx> hmm
2021-05-07T23:10:13 < qyx> but ecp5 is probably too small for that
2021-05-07T23:10:42 < zyp> nope, IIRC the largest ecp5 can fit a quad vexriscv
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2021-05-07T23:11:10 < qyx> still in 0.8 mm bga?
2021-05-07T23:11:11 < zyp> I haven't bothered trying, I'm not really interested in running linux
2021-05-07T23:11:14 < zyp> yes
2021-05-07T23:11:37 < zyp> you'll need the bga381 to get the largest variant, but yeah
2021-05-07T23:12:22 < zyp> currently we've got usb, cmsis-dap and trace pipelines all in HDL, no cpu needed
2021-05-07T23:13:22 < qyx> add a eth mining IP to be current
2021-05-07T23:13:26 < zyp> ha
2021-05-07T23:13:46 < zyp> so far I've managed to push 230 Mb/s of trace data through it
2021-05-07T23:14:13 < qyx> is it a payjob?
2021-05-07T23:14:27 < zyp> no, opensource, this is for orbuculum
2021-05-07T23:14:46 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/
2021-05-07T23:15:08 < qyx> but it can be both, payjob and oss/oshw
2021-05-07T23:15:35 < zyp> well, I'm planning to sell the hardware
2021-05-07T23:15:37 < qyx> asking because of $500 and much time spent
2021-05-07T23:16:30 < zyp> I don't expect to get rich from this, but I do expect to recoup my costs
2021-05-07T23:16:57 < zyp> also it's fun and I'm making useful stuff that doesn't currently exist
2021-05-07T23:18:15 < zyp> I mean, there's simply no affordable parallel trace hardware on the market right now
2021-05-07T23:18:29 < zyp> j-trace costs an order of magnitude more than what I expect to sell this for
2021-05-07T23:19:06 < zyp> the reason I went down this rabbit hole to begin with is because I wanted to trace the performance of my coro code :p
2021-05-07T23:19:53 < qyx> that was a deep one
2021-05-07T23:20:22 < zyp> that's how it is :)
2021-05-07T23:21:49 < zyp> gaining a lot of useful experience in the process though
2021-05-07T23:22:37 < qyx> what are you using for hdl?
2021-05-07T23:22:42 < qyx> have you seen that python stuff?
2021-05-07T23:22:51 < zyp> yes
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2021-05-07T23:23:10 < zyp> if by python stuff you refer to litex/migen/nmigen
2021-05-07T23:23:24 < zyp> it's great
2021-05-07T23:23:55 < qyx> no there was some HDL using python, or python-like
2021-05-07T23:23:57 < qyx> or actually
2021-05-07T23:24:00 < zyp> myhdl?
2021-05-07T23:24:03 < qyx> yeah
2021-05-07T23:24:07 < zyp> that doesn't seem worthwhile :)
2021-05-07T23:27:31 < zyp> so far my experience is that nmigen is pretty great, but the litex ecosystem also have a ton of building blocks built on the old migen
2021-05-07T23:27:49 < invzim> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chisel_(programming_language)
2021-05-07T23:28:05 < invzim> I'll stick to plain vhdl :)
2021-05-07T23:28:14 < zyp> and I don't want to have to choose, so I made a glue layer that lets me stick migen and nmigen code together
2021-05-07T23:28:20 < zyp> meh
2021-05-07T23:28:53 < zyp> «I'll stick to plain vhdl/verilog» is like embedded programmers saying «I'll stick to assembly»
2021-05-07T23:29:03 < invzim> or, I'll stick with plain C
2021-05-07T23:30:04 < invzim> how do you go about sdc/timing constrains in something super-abstracted?
2021-05-07T23:31:18 < zyp> you set them?
2021-05-07T23:31:19 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/platforms/ecpix5.py#L68
2021-05-07T23:31:30 < invzim> evening all btw, had to reboot the VM and forgot to relaunch screen/irssi
2021-05-07T23:32:07 < zyp> part of the beauty is that constraints are also abstrated across toolchains
2021-05-07T23:32:35 < invzim> black magic for sure, I just have basic sdc files for now
2021-05-07T23:33:05 < zyp> I expect I can take this project and port it to e.g. a xilinx board like the arty in an afternoon
2021-05-07T23:33:46 < zyp> the main part that needs to change is the PLL config, because that's assuming an ECP5 PLL
2021-05-07T23:34:24 < zyp> and then there might be a few primitives that are not properly abstracted yet
2021-05-07T23:34:53 < invzim> async vs sync resets?
2021-05-07T23:35:21 < zyp> no, I don't think there's anything there
2021-05-07T23:35:33 < invzim> learned that the fpgas have dedicated thigies for async resets
2021-05-07T23:36:18 < invzim> but you have to write your code in a certain way so the compiler understands it and uses them
2021-05-07T23:36:25 < zyp> I've got a couple of AsyncResetSynchronizer instances, I assume they'll abstract any differences
2021-05-07T23:36:51 < zyp> and they takes care of getting it synthesized correctly
2021-05-07T23:37:08 < invzim> clock domain crossing?  My first and tbh only fpga project had like 4 clock domains :)
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2021-05-07T23:37:58 < zyp> yeah, most of those are streams going through AsyncFIFOs
2021-05-07T23:38:09 < zyp> mostly between the main domain and the usb domain
2021-05-07T23:38:51 < zyp> see e.g. https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/soc.py#L183 for usb-uart streams crossing into the sys domain
2021-05-07T23:39:00 < invzim> I have a usecase for fifo's in different clockdomains, thinking of using dual-port ram for that
2021-05-07T23:39:09 < zyp> ah, no, those are the cmsis-dap streams
2021-05-07T23:39:37 < zyp> see, that's the point of using this stuff, I don't have to think with it
2021-05-07T23:39:59 < invzim> but you may end up with terrible crappy unstable hdl?
2021-05-07T23:40:01 < zyp> async fifos already exists, I just have to instance it and tell it which clock domain each end is in
2021-05-07T23:40:14 < zyp> why?
2021-05-07T23:40:15 < invzim> sorry, metastable :)
2021-05-07T23:40:42 < zyp> no, the async fifo blocks are already designed to cross clock domains, that's the whole point
2021-05-07T23:42:29 < zyp> https://github.com/orbcode/orbtrace/blob/main/orbtrace/trace/__init__.py#L157 <- trace pipeline has the trace phy sitting in the trace domain (clocked by the traceclk input), feeding a fifo to cross over to the sys domain for processing
2021-05-07T23:42:49 < zyp> and then there's another fifo later over to the usb domain
2021-05-07T23:45:09 < bitmask> you guys label schematics as 0.1uF or 100nF?
2021-05-07T23:45:47 < zyp> 100nF
2021-05-07T23:46:01 < bitmask> i agree
2021-05-07T23:46:10 < invzim> I've always done .1uf or even .01uf which is stupid, I'm now pro nF 
2021-05-07T23:46:48 < zyp> personally I prefer sizing the prefix so that the value falls in between 1-999
2021-05-07T23:47:14 < bitmask> yea, its silly to use 0.xxx
2021-05-07T23:47:41 < zyp> but I might not be 100% consistent
2021-05-07T23:47:55 < zyp> I think I'd write 0.xx for e.g. a shunt resistor
2021-05-07T23:48:50 < zyp> wouldn't want anybody to mistake 100m for megaohms
2021-05-07T23:50:55 < qyx> bitmask: 100n
2021-05-07T23:51:24 < qyx> for shunts I use R001 for example
2021-05-07T23:51:36 < qyx> or 0R001
2021-05-07T23:51:45 < qyx> I never use .
2021-05-07T23:52:06 < zyp> I've started to prefer .
2021-05-07T23:52:14 < zyp> 4.7k rather than 4k7
2021-05-07T23:55:50 < fenugrec> pro lug crimping with proper tools, https://ibb.co/7K27WNc
2021-05-07T23:56:35 < zyp> shit doesn't load
2021-05-07T23:56:45 < zyp> is it a hydraulic press? :p
2021-05-07T23:58:18 < fenugrec> I wish... knipex and a screwdriver
2021-05-07T23:59:22 < zyp> haha
--- Day changed Sat May 08 2021
2021-05-08T00:00:22 < fenugrec> alt link, https://imagebin.ca/v/613FfaWE7Di5
2021-05-08T00:00:41 < zyp> haha, nice
2021-05-08T00:01:43 < fenugrec> pull test is "convincing", but with no lugs to spare I didn't push my luck...
2021-05-08T00:02:16 < zyp> better that it fails under load than failing the pull test, eh? :)
2021-05-08T00:03:06 < qyx> maybe solder it additionally?
2021-05-08T00:03:22 < fenugrec> well exactly ! Better have something that works for at least a while, rather than not at all P)
2021-05-08T00:03:33 < fenugrec> not a fan of soldering 2ga
2021-05-08T00:03:59 < fenugrec> or soldering crimps in general
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2021-05-08T00:10:33 < bitmask> hmm what opto current transfer ratio should I choose
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2021-05-08T00:12:52 < fenugrec> 0%
2021-05-08T00:12:54 < fenugrec> full isolation
2021-05-08T00:14:54 < bitmask> oh hmm
2021-05-08T00:15:14 < bitmask> i didnt think about it not being isolated, but lowest is 80-100%
2021-05-08T00:15:39 < bitmask> wait
2021-05-08T00:16:15 < bitmask> cheapest is the 200-400% option so i'll get that one
2021-05-08T00:17:00 < bitmask> its isolated more than I need
2021-05-08T00:39:04 < fenugrec> Im̀ pulling your leg. 0% CTR would be useless
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2021-05-08T00:59:32 < jadew> Steffanx, my complaint about stripe was just about their payment system, it can be easily be exploited so you are presented with a particular amount and then you are charged another
2021-05-08T00:59:58 < jadew> fenugrec, paypal has the same clause in their agreement, I thought it's crappy too
2021-05-08T01:00:16 < jadew> but on the upside, wise doesn't need that, because they're cheap
2021-05-08T01:00:29 < jadew> in paypal's case you might want to charge more because their fees are higher
2021-05-08T01:00:51 < jadew> why don't you accept both?
2021-05-08T01:02:02 < jadew> I like wise a lot
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2021-05-08T01:13:43 < fenugrec> jadew, thanks for the info; what do you mean by presenting an amount and charged another, you mean from the customer's perspective or yours (receiving money) ?
2021-05-08T01:19:45 < fenugrec> wise are a annoying in that they dont support standard 2FA authenticator apps (e.g. for TOTP)
2021-05-08T01:22:49 < fenugrec> and they insist on a photo of my face holding ID... wtf
2021-05-08T01:22:59 < fenugrec> I don't even look like my ID, how is that going to help
2021-05-08T01:23:25 < fenugrec> I don't remember PP being such a pain to setup, back in... 2004
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2021-05-08T03:19:11 < jadew> fenugrec, from the customer's perspective
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2021-05-08T09:02:07 < R2COM> oh nice so I managed to connect and detect stm32 with blackmagic probe from freebsd
2021-05-08T09:04:33 < R2COM> hm
2021-05-08T09:04:42 < R2COM> so, git-extensions program only for windows
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2021-05-08T09:32:21 < R2COM> uh
2021-05-08T09:32:27 < R2COM> remember there were some microscopes
2021-05-08T09:32:40 < R2COM> popular ones, the ones which gave projection on glass, like huge monocular
2021-05-08T09:32:44 < R2COM> what was their brand
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2021-05-08T09:58:27 < jpa-> R2COM: mantis
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2021-05-08T13:12:59 < tct> r2cum, how is the desktopping?
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2021-05-08T13:52:35 < qyx> CZ-5B/2021-035B Estimated Reentry : T - 0d 14h 8m 
2021-05-08T14:04:42 < Xogium> so a couple weeks ago I think, I explained about the opi zero thermal issues… And someone, don't recall who that was suggested using thermal fuse
2021-05-08T14:05:36 < Xogium> and simply getting it glued on the SoC. But how would that cut for example micro usb power ? Isn't there a power path I have the make the thermal fuse follow to ensure its doing this ?
2021-05-08T14:11:07 < jpa-> yes, you would cut the power wire/trace and solder the thermal fuse in series with it
2021-05-08T14:18:08 < Xogium> hmm right so not something super easy to do let alone on mass production of such pcb
2021-05-08T14:18:58 < Xogium> reckon it would be better to change platform rather than use a pcb that could have such nasty thermal runaways
2021-05-08T14:19:12 < Xogium> am I glad I personally don't have to deal with this :p
2021-05-08T14:20:14 < jpa-> most SoCs have internal thermal sensors so that you could do something in software
2021-05-08T14:20:51 < Xogium> yeah I mean, security, right
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2021-05-08T14:22:07 < Xogium> have to wonder how come they didn't do such things in u-boot
2021-05-08T14:22:19 < Xogium> and weather they even do on linux kernel side
2021-05-08T14:26:17 < BrainDamage> linux has a thermal management system
2021-05-08T14:26:41 < BrainDamage> but the board firmware should have one as well
2021-05-08T14:26:44 < Xogium> yeah but to manage each SoC it needs the appropriate driver to go with it, right ?
2021-05-08T14:26:47 < BrainDamage> clock in all cpus since more than a ddeccade gets modulated based off the ttemmp
2021-05-08T14:27:05 < BrainDamage> sure, that's the point of having a kernel
2021-05-08T14:27:14 < BrainDamage> it has the drivers in it
2021-05-08T14:27:42 < BrainDamage> acpi standardized stuff for x86
2021-05-08T14:27:48 < BrainDamage> it's a shitty standard, mind you
2021-05-08T14:28:00 < Xogium> from my understanding this happened because of 2 things, possibly 3: u-boot not reacting to thermal, cpu and ram speed clock being too high. I looked at what armbian does for curiosity and it turns out they underclock ram and cpu by half
2021-05-08T14:28:06 < BrainDamage> for arm, you have device tree files
2021-05-08T14:29:16 < BrainDamage> if you mass produce, try first to design an enclosure that adds a heatsink to the socc
2021-05-08T14:29:41 < BrainDamage> sorry for all my typos, my keyb is literally broken
2021-05-08T14:30:04 < Xogium> poor keyboard
2021-05-08T14:30:51 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I've recently learnt they are already using ACPI for ARM servers ;/
2021-05-08T14:31:00 < Xogium> yep it had a heatsink on, it came with the original opi zero enclosure… Which doesn't seem to allow good airflow, so the heatsink ended up not dissipating enough, and it turned the whole board into a heatsink in the end
2021-05-08T14:31:28 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I do not remember u-boot dynamically adjusting clocks or voltages
2021-05-08T14:31:39 < Xogium> yeah
2021-05-08T14:31:44 < Xogium> that's what I thought
2021-05-08T14:32:01 < Xogium> the h2+ is constantly forced to run at 1 ghz no matter what
2021-05-08T14:32:15 < Xogium> and apparently 1 ghz is too much sometimes
2021-05-08T14:33:15 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: Xeons also have a physical pin so that you can tell them to start throttling externally. And when that happens nothing is emitted in dmesg, unlike in the case when they do it due to internal thermal measurements. 
2021-05-08T14:33:29 < BrainDamage> o.o
2021-05-08T14:33:58 < BrainDamage> no gpio read on the pin?
2021-05-08T14:34:04 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: and there's yet another mechanism called RAPL that's adjustable and limits average power consumption, read more here: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled
2021-05-08T14:34:31 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: afaict, no, it's handled in hardware automatically, and even if there's a way to read out the status upstream Linux doesn't implement that.
2021-05-08T14:35:32 < BrainDamage> the scheduler guys must be thrilled about it
2021-05-08T14:36:13 < BrainDamage> I routinely use realtime mode for jack, etc, and having a stable clock makes a world of difference in the scheduler efficiency
2021-05-08T14:36:24 < BrainDamage> otherwise you end up in a sleeve of buffer underruns
2021-05-08T14:36:43 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I think it's supposed to be used only in "something is seriously wrong" conditions.
2021-05-08T14:38:39 < BrainDamage> that has never stopped people from abusing features >.>
2021-05-08T14:39:12 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: you can check PROCHOT_N documentation for Skylake Xeons to see the feature I'm talking about.
2021-05-08T14:39:37 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: there's really no need to abuse it, since keeping in TDP is automatic thanks to RAPL.
2021-05-08T14:41:54 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: on this board I'm familiar with it's triggered by under-voltage / over-current conditions for the 12 V supply (the only one) from the rack.
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2021-05-08T14:51:24 < mouseghost> eh, does st provide linker scripts?
2021-05-08T14:56:21 < PaulFertser> There's a nice small standalone app you can use to see current RAPL parameters and measurements: http://web.eece.maine.edu/~vweaver/projects/rapl/rapl-read.c
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2021-05-08T15:04:21 < mouseghost> hm, the datasheet for stm32f050 et al says that theres Tx and Rx FIFO, but whats their size :thinking:?
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2021-05-08T15:06:56 < jpa-> mouseghost: which peripheral?
2021-05-08T15:27:06 < mouseghost> jpa-, SPI
2021-05-08T15:27:36 < mouseghost> but i guess the frame in the documentation is 16-bit or less, i guess?
2021-05-08T15:27:43 < mouseghost> i mean, re the nss pulse mode
2021-05-08T15:32:29 < mouseghost> i guess if i wanted to have a bigger queue that works automatically i could always use DMA hm
2021-05-08T15:33:43 < jpa-> the fifo size is 32 bits; so if you have 8-bit frames it is 4 frames
2021-05-08T15:34:19 < mouseghost> ahhh it works like that, i see
2021-05-08T15:34:20 < mouseghost> thanks
2021-05-08T15:34:44 < jpa-> its described in section 28.5.9 "Data transmission and reception procedures" "RXFIFO and TXFIFO"
2021-05-08T15:34:45 < mouseghost> aha aha, now i see
2021-05-08T15:35:06 < mouseghost> jpa-, i mean, ive seen that its 32-bit, but i guess a was a bit confused what a "frame" was
2021-05-08T15:35:34 < mouseghost> i wasnt aware that it was the actual size, it just didnt make much sense to me :x i thought it was alignment or something
2021-05-08T15:35:36 < mouseghost> thanks meow
2021-05-08T15:37:03 < jpa-> you're welcome, mousie
2021-05-08T15:38:14 < mouseghost> :333
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2021-05-08T15:52:14 < BrainDamage> mawk: a place using butane solvents blew up here, strangely the news didn't report it as meth lab
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2021-05-08T16:26:08 < mouseghost> hm, now -- whether to use registers or cmsis
2021-05-08T16:36:26 < ventyl> don't use registers unless you have to
2021-05-08T16:36:33 < ventyl> 1980s and 1990s are over
2021-05-08T16:36:41 < ventyl> and this is not 8051
2021-05-08T16:40:27 < mouseghost> thanks
2021-05-08T16:40:31 < mouseghost> so let it be cmsis
2021-05-08T16:44:11 < mouseghost> gotta find it tho
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2021-05-08T16:48:27 < mouseghost> grrr i can only find std periph. lib
2021-05-08T16:48:28 < jpa-> mouseghost: use registers, cmsis / hal is crap
2021-05-08T16:48:28 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-05-08T16:48:38 < mouseghost> ;_;
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2021-05-08T16:49:18 < jpa-> chibios or libopencm3 makes sense, but if the choice is between getting STDs on your peripherals and going with raw registers, then use registers
2021-05-08T16:50:19 < mouseghost> chibi vs freertos tho? jpa-
2021-05-08T16:50:39 < jpa-> freertos does not do anything about peripheral access AFAIK
2021-05-08T16:51:00 < jpa-> it's fine as far as rtos goes, but it is not a hardware abstraction layer for peripherals
2021-05-08T16:51:17 < jpa-> (you can use chibios HAL with freertos, or libopencm3 with freertos)
2021-05-08T16:51:33 < mouseghost> mhmm
2021-05-08T16:51:37 < mouseghost> yeah i understand that
2021-05-08T16:51:42 < mouseghost> im just asking about what to choose
2021-05-08T16:51:50 < mouseghost> chibi/rt vs freertos x-x
2021-05-08T16:51:58 < mouseghost> chibios vs opencm3 vs registers
2021-05-08T16:52:13 < jpa-> if chibios licensing is ok for you, i think it is very good
2021-05-08T16:52:49 < jpa-> the most common reason to use freertos instead seems to be "we don't want to pay for anything, and we don't want to share our code either"
2021-05-08T16:53:34 < Xogium> what's your opinion about zephyr ?
2021-05-08T16:54:45 < jpa-> i haven't tried it, but if i've understood correctly, zephyr's HAL for STM32 builds on top of stm32cube
2021-05-08T16:54:46 < Xogium> seems like a nice project to me, but its also seeming to be incomplete
2021-05-08T16:55:01 < jpa-> which feels like a bit too many abstraction levels to me
2021-05-08T16:55:21 < mouseghost> bruh who invented the gpl3
2021-05-08T16:56:37 < Xogium> I really don't know lol apparently you're supposed to use defconfigs
2021-05-08T16:56:44 < Xogium> just like in linux kernel
2021-05-08T16:57:22 < jpa-> yeah, zephyr uses kconfig like e.g. nuttx does also - i have no problems with that
2021-05-08T16:57:59 < mouseghost> i think opencm3 looks a bit better
2021-05-08T16:58:09 < jpa-> main problem with lots of configurability is that some configurations may be untested and dependencies are not always clear - but that happens even more without tool like kconfig
2021-05-08T16:58:16 < Xogium> yeah
2021-05-08T16:59:07 < jpa-> mouseghost: libopencm3 is great for the parts that it supports well, but AFAIK it is a bit lacking on the support for the newest STM32s
2021-05-08T16:59:21 < mouseghost> i use a deprecated mcu anyways eh
2021-05-08T16:59:50 < mouseghost> besides, there are always registers available, right?
2021-05-08T16:59:54 < jpa-> which stm32 is deprecated?
2021-05-08T17:00:28 < Steffanx> F100 :P
2021-05-08T17:00:34 < Steffanx> come on  who uses F100 in 2021
2021-05-08T17:00:50 < jpa-> even F100 is only deprecated as far as ##stm32 hipsters go :)
2021-05-08T17:00:51 < Xogium> but I still don't figure out rt os
2021-05-08T17:01:06 < Steffanx> you call us hipsters, damn you jpa-
2021-05-08T17:01:13 < mouseghost> jpa-, i have f050
2021-05-08T17:01:40 < jpa-> mouseghost: registers are enough for almost everything; so far i've felt that USB is the main reason to reach for some driver library, though having premade drivers of course helps with many simpler peripherals also
2021-05-08T17:02:14 < mouseghost> i mean, its not like i cant do it; im just wondering what to use; just usual pondering to avoid working
2021-05-08T17:02:52 < jpa-> F050 is pretty small device, so RTOS might be wasting it
2021-05-08T17:02:56 < Steffanx> oh, f050 is actually deprecated., according to mouser
2021-05-08T17:03:01 < Steffanx> cant even find it on st.com
2021-05-08T17:03:33 < jpa-> oh, didn't know that - i guess F070 is easy enough upgrade
2021-05-08T17:03:43 < mouseghost> why wasting? jpa-
2021-05-08T17:04:17 < jpa-> mouseghost: when you have 8 kbytes of ram, running multiple threads gets that full pretty fast
2021-05-08T17:04:27 < mouseghost> oh
2021-05-08T17:04:38 < jpa-> whereas if you just do mainloop + interrupts design, it can go far
2021-05-08T17:04:43 < Xogium> I never useda rt os ever, so total newb. Okay, I never used a mcu ever yet, come to think of it. Its rather difficult when you can't figure out programming after all
2021-05-08T17:04:44 < mouseghost> how much ram do you usually have on bigger devices?
2021-05-08T17:04:48 < Xogium> but I wish I could
2021-05-08T17:05:18 < jpa-> mouseghost: stm32h7 goes to 1 Mbyte :)
2021-05-08T17:05:27 < mouseghost> woah
2021-05-08T17:05:54 < mouseghost> thats almost 0.5% of facebook main page ram use or something :D
2021-05-08T17:06:04 < jpa-> nothing stops one from doing rtos with a single thread.. but then there is not much point in having the rtos :)
2021-05-08T17:06:08 < Xogium> f413zh is already pretty high for that also, 320 kb of sram
2021-05-08T17:06:10 < mouseghost> true :)
2021-05-08T17:06:29 < jpa-> and with NVIC, mainloop + interrupts is actually very flexible
2021-05-08T17:07:28 < jpa-> as you can have different priority stuff in different priority interrupts, and you can also use otherwise unused interrupts to delegate stuff to a lower priority
2021-05-08T17:08:20 < jpa-> such as have high-priority ADC interrupt do basic filtering and control stuff in realtime, and then trigger lower priority interrupt every X cycles to do some less time-critical processing when a bunch of data has been collected
2021-05-08T17:11:17 < Xogium> but I do have to wonder if I couldn't use some kind of rtos to monitor the system in realtime with stm32mp157c
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2021-05-08T17:12:15 < Xogium> or even if it would be something worth doing
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2021-05-08T17:52:50 < mouseghost> jpa-, you can "trigger" interrupts o;?
2021-05-08T17:55:53 < R2COM> <tct> r2cum, how is the desktopping?
2021-05-08T17:55:55 < R2COM> ^
2021-05-08T17:56:00 < tct> y?
2021-05-08T17:56:01 < R2COM> pretty good
2021-05-08T17:56:05 < tct> happy to hear that!
2021-05-08T17:56:14 < tct> doing STM32 devel on fbsd now?
2021-05-08T17:56:42 < R2COM> not started yet, but it seems I can, cuz i compiled eabi gcc and managed to connect to that probe
2021-05-08T17:56:51 < R2COM> havent flashed code but it showed voltagte and chip name
2021-05-08T17:56:57 < R2COM> so should do the rest too
2021-05-08T17:57:01 < R2COM> getting stuff ready
2021-05-08T17:57:03 < R2COM> maybe today will test
2021-05-08T17:57:10 < tct> keep me posted
2021-05-08T17:57:23 < R2COM> the thing is, for managing my arm code i used git-extensions, but now need to think how to control source in freebsd
2021-05-08T17:57:41 < R2COM> thats why a litte stuck figuring it out before i start programming stm32 there
2021-05-08T17:57:44 < tct> what is git-extensions?
2021-05-08T17:57:49 < tct> I mean I use git every day on fbsd no problem
2021-05-08T17:58:01 < tct> are you just looking for a git GUI client?
2021-05-08T17:58:02 < R2COM> it was some program which allowed me to connect to github and manage code with GUI
2021-05-08T17:58:12 < R2COM> maybe i need to get away and do text
2021-05-08T17:58:13 < R2COM> dunno
2021-05-08T17:58:13 < tct> oh, there are plenty of those out there
2021-05-08T17:58:36 < R2COM> what do you use for code?
2021-05-08T17:59:07 < R2COM> i mean for source control
2021-05-08T17:59:10 < tct> git
2021-05-08T17:59:11 < R2COM> on client side
2021-05-08T17:59:13 < R2COM> ?
2021-05-08T17:59:14 < tct> mainly
2021-05-08T17:59:23 < R2COM> but how do you checkin/out etc
2021-05-08T17:59:30 < tct> git checkout?
2021-05-08T17:59:36 < R2COM> command line?
2021-05-08T17:59:38 < tct> yes?
2021-05-08T17:59:53 < tct> otherwise there are plenty of GUIs around git you can choose from
2021-05-08T17:59:55 < R2COM> but one thing i liked in GUI is, graphical show of all snapshots like what relates to what, with curvy arrows
2021-05-08T17:59:57 < tct> a highly portable one is git-gui
2021-05-08T18:00:05 < tct> https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=git-gui&manpath=SuSE+Linux/i386+11.3
2021-05-08T18:00:09 < R2COM> you dont like that feature?
2021-05-08T18:00:25 < tct> you can get that from CLI too
2021-05-08T18:00:35 < tct> you can check this page:  https://git-scm.com/downloads/guis
2021-05-08T18:00:48 < tct> I use sublime-merge every now and then
2021-05-08T18:00:56 < R2COM> you use sublime?
2021-05-08T18:01:25 < tct> every now and then yes. but just sublime-merge not sublime-edit 
2021-05-08T18:01:37 < tct> anyway, if all you want is fancy graphs, you can get that from CLI: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1057564/pretty-git-branch-graphs
2021-05-08T18:01:47 < R2COM> so if one wants just command line flow with git from freebsd, which program/package must be installed?
2021-05-08T18:01:59 < tct> devel/git
2021-05-08T18:02:04 < R2COM> ok thanks
2021-05-08T18:02:08 < R2COM> ill maybe try that
2021-05-08T18:03:21 < tct> have you never used git w/o GUI so far?
2021-05-08T18:03:29 < R2COM> umm no
2021-05-08T18:03:34 < tct> ah, okay
2021-05-08T18:03:42 < R2COM> i will try that
2021-05-08T18:03:52 < tct> it´s rather straight forward. there are plenty of tutorials out there
2021-05-08T18:04:09 < tct> but feel free to use whatever GUI you want/can on your system. stuff is free.
2021-05-08T18:09:24 < specing> R2COM: please stop using github https://git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator/humanacollabora/src/branch/master/github.md
2021-05-08T18:10:03 < R2COM> also sometimes I use ms excel for working out some algorithms or anything, and I was wondering if i can install some non-nloated app like that
2021-05-08T18:10:07 < R2COM> i.e. not LibreOffice
2021-05-08T18:10:11 < R2COM> and found this: sc-im
2021-05-08T18:10:19 < R2COM> need to see how it works
2021-05-08T18:10:25 < R2COM> its like... mini Excel in vim mode
2021-05-08T18:10:43 < tct> R2COM, well there is math/octave
2021-05-08T18:11:04 < Xogium> well as bad as this sounds, I don't like when people move away from github
2021-05-08T18:11:08 < R2COM> yeah but i want simple spreadsheet
2021-05-08T18:11:35 < R2COM> someone can run own git server, correct?
2021-05-08T18:11:57 < tct> R2COM, there is a port for http://www.gnumeric.org/
2021-05-08T18:12:03 < effractur> you don't need a server to use git 
2021-05-08T18:12:04 < R2COM> i'd assume people would put stuff on github only for code they willing to share
2021-05-08T18:12:11 < Xogium> github is the most accessible for disabled people right now in its genre, gitlab accessibility is degrading day by day
2021-05-08T18:12:22 < R2COM> cuz nobody gonna trust some fuckwits his proprietary code
2021-05-08T18:12:28 < specing> R2COM: gnumeric exists, but I use LO
2021-05-08T18:12:31 < Xogium> just as an example
2021-05-08T18:13:04 < R2COM> that example is not interesting for 90% of earth population I assume
2021-05-08T18:14:59 < Xogium> I mean github did something pretty stupid the other day wit hteir 'not available' empty span tag
2021-05-08T18:15:16 < Xogium> but gitlab has been going less accessible year after year
2021-05-08T18:15:49 < R2COM> i dont care
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2021-05-08T18:17:50 < Xogium> I'm not talking about things like cgit here mind you, just github-like platforms with pull requests, issue tracker, etc.
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2021-05-08T18:21:40 < mouseghost> R2COM, you can use jupyter notebook or some other notebook
2021-05-08T18:21:43 < mouseghost> like mathematica or something
2021-05-08T18:21:47 < mouseghost> depending on what you need
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2021-05-08T18:28:05 < englishman> Excel 2016 ftw
2021-05-08T18:28:19 < englishman> Excel 2016 makes the world go round
2021-05-08T18:30:02 < mouseghost> round and round - ariel pink
2021-05-08T18:30:44 < englishman> a perfect circle
2021-05-08T18:45:56 < jpa-> mouseghost: sure, NVIC has a register for that; you can trigger any interrupt by software
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2021-05-08T18:52:38 < tct> jpa-, how is having kids going?
2021-05-08T18:55:36 < jpa-> still have 1
2021-05-08T18:55:39 < jpa-> lost none, gained none
2021-05-08T18:56:58 < tct> good
2021-05-08T18:57:07 < tct> how is it to have a toddler during covid?
2021-05-08T18:57:46 < jpa-> same as having toddler without covid
2021-05-08T19:02:30 -!- c10ud [~c10ud@emesene/dictator/c10ud] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-05-08T19:03:19 < tct> I see
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2021-05-08T19:04:53 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-05-08T19:05:06 < mouseghost> i think ill also use DMA!
2021-05-08T19:05:09 < mouseghost> because why not!!!
2021-05-08T19:25:07 < englishman> fenugrec: https://i.redd.it/z8pjq6207rx61.jpg
2021-05-08T19:25:56 < tct> englishman getting an new tractor?
2021-05-08T19:26:31 < englishman> cybertronk all the way
2021-05-08T19:28:19 < qyx> f100 in 2021 is like at89c2051 in 2015
2021-05-08T19:29:02 < tct> that ^
2021-05-08T19:29:14 < tct> I already felt bad using f407 in 2017
2021-05-08T19:31:21 < tct> 2018 actually
2021-05-08T19:31:33 < qyx> at89c might actually be more available today than f103
2021-05-08T19:31:50 < qyx> checking mouser, plenty in stock
2021-05-08T19:32:56 < srk> how about gd103?
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2021-05-08T19:57:22 < jpa-> i need a tiny on-off switch that is at least 7 mm high from pcb
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2021-05-08T20:02:42 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/grayhill-inc/78HF01GWRT/2680583  heh, that's pricey
2021-05-08T20:02:44 < qyx> a 6x6 omron with a greenpak
2021-05-08T20:03:04 < jpa-> oh no, they've hired qyx also
2021-05-08T20:03:40 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip174-74-227-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-05-08T20:03:42 < jpa-> and i thought *i* was the greenpak salesman, after all they've actually paid me to write marketing stuff..
2021-05-08T20:04:20 < qyx> you are doing a good job then
2021-05-08T20:06:30 < Steffanx> Did you sell your soul, jpa- ?
2021-05-08T20:06:43 < jpa-> Steffanx: no, just my time
2021-05-08T20:06:46 < tct> jpa-, taking money to output marketing material - interesting.
2021-05-08T20:07:38 < qyx> no, you are reading it wrong
2021-05-08T20:08:37 < qyx> taking money to write fully legit and true documents about an existing and well performing product to spread knowledge
2021-05-08T20:08:43 < qyx> and increase interest in the product
2021-05-08T20:08:54 < Steffanx> In short he sold his soul
2021-05-08T20:09:16 < tct> :D 
2021-05-08T20:10:04 < Steffanx> But a good salesman can sell anything so...
2021-05-08T20:10:12 < jpa-> it was actually a nice job, except that i only managed to come with one application for greenpak devices that they would accept.. all my other ideas were "that's too niche" "greenpaks aren't actually very good for that" etc.
2021-05-08T20:11:21 < tct> no such thing as ´too niche´
2021-05-08T20:13:47 < Steffanx> For some reason I have the idea greenpak is rather a niche thing on its own
2021-05-08T20:25:12 < qyx> you can use it for some niche things
2021-05-08T20:25:23 < qyx> like, switching LEDs
2021-05-08T20:27:14 < Steffanx> Can it help tct with his ' key?
2021-05-08T20:27:19 < tct> nah
2021-05-08T20:27:26 < tct> just a matter of some python fuckery
2021-05-08T20:27:38 < qyx> do you use ` in python?
2021-05-08T20:27:51 < qyx> oh it is not the right one
2021-05-08T20:27:54 < qyx> it is the left one
2021-05-08T20:28:03 < tct> it´s a hexchat issue
2021-05-08T20:28:12 < qyx> it´s
2021-05-08T20:28:15 < qyx> yeah it works
2021-05-08T20:28:29 < qyx> Steffanx: I can´t
2021-05-08T20:31:56 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-08T20:32:20 < qyx> am I allowed to use RMS abbreviation?
2021-05-08T20:35:46 < Steffanx> ##stm32 doesnt tell you  want to do, qyx
2021-05-08T20:42:22 < qyx> remember, ##stm32 will enlighten you and raise your knowledge but will never constrain you or harm you
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2021-05-08T20:57:35 < tct> something about GNU?
2021-05-08T22:48:38 < englishman> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159121001258
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2021-05-08T23:42:10 < mouseghost> englishman, the part before the colon could be very well said to be about dildos
--- Day changed Sun May 09 2021
2021-05-09T00:04:26 < zyp> jpa-, what applications did you come up with?
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2021-05-09T00:05:28 < R2COM> what would be open source alternative to MS OneNote
2021-05-09T00:05:38 < zyp> vim
2021-05-09T00:05:55 < R2COM> i said onenote alternative, not notepad alternative
2021-05-09T00:06:08 < zyp> oh
2021-05-09T00:06:11 < zyp> then emacs
2021-05-09T00:06:20 < R2COM> emacs is for cucks
2021-05-09T00:06:36 < R2COM> also I dont think it can do graph
2021-05-09T00:06:53 < R2COM> like.. an app which can run in unix PC, but also which can run on tablet where i can draw with pen on it
2021-05-09T00:07:50 < R2COM> so onenote is kinda cool, i can for example draw and put notes and it appears on PC too
2021-05-09T00:08:05 < R2COM> but its MS and its not free
2021-05-09T00:27:49 < qyx> karlp: thanks for the git-contrib thingies
2021-05-09T00:28:16 < qyx> zyp: haha
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2021-05-09T05:01:58 < R2COM> anyone using synology
2021-05-09T05:10:29 < englishman> a lot of people, myself included, too bad we're all on iggy
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2021-05-09T06:07:23 < R2COM> fuck this product is a real shit
2021-05-09T06:07:32 < R2COM> was a mistake to buy that fucking garbage
2021-05-09T07:25:49 < R2COM> is haskell worth learning?
2021-05-09T08:18:11 < jpa-> zyp: only one that got accepted was connecting quadrature encoder to spi bus; then i had some like low energy reading of switches by enabling pull-ups only occassionally; combined vreg & watchdog & sleep controller for esp8266
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2021-05-09T10:36:54 < Steffanx> Yeah, what's the point of telling him about a great onenote alternative when he won't read it
2021-05-09T10:37:31 < Steffanx> @ mr sir englishman 
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2021-05-09T11:34:58 < qyx> fellow sunday's matlabbers, why is my FFT like https://bin.jvnv.net/file/wxdQ4/Screenshot_2021-05-09_10-33-50.png
2021-05-09T11:35:45 < qyx> is it some common feature I am overlooking? (aliasing or whatever)
2021-05-09T11:36:14 < jpa-> are you using some windowing?
2021-05-09T11:36:31 < qyx> hamming
2021-05-09T11:37:18 < jpa-> have you tried feeding a simple simulated sin() to your fft code and checking what comes out?
2021-05-09T11:38:04 < qyx> good suggestion, one minute
2021-05-09T11:52:52 < qyx> looks okish https://bin.jvnv.net/file/uWosu/Screenshot_2021-05-09_10-52-13.png
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2021-05-09T12:12:29 < qyx> it is clearly caused by the data itself, I added a sine at 8 Hz, it is displayed correctly https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5va78/Screenshot_2021-05-09_11-11-48.png
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2021-05-09T12:15:56 < tct> R2COM, yeah synology is pretty bad IMHO too...
2021-05-09T12:16:53 < effractur> R2COM: haskell is nice
2021-05-09T12:17:04 < tct> ada?
2021-05-09T12:18:56 < Steffanx> Haksell 
2021-05-09T12:20:50 < jpa-> qyx: it appears as if your data was modulated by a high frequency signal
2021-05-09T12:21:02 < jpa-> err.. by a low frequency signal actually
2021-05-09T12:21:14 < tct> hey people o/
2021-05-09T12:21:23 < tct> nice to have you all here
2021-05-09T12:22:01 < jpa-> qyx: hmm, 30 Hz signal to be exact.. maybe 60 Hz noise somehow?
2021-05-09T12:22:32 < qyx> jpa-: hm, I was sampling at 1100 Hz and decimated by 40 (to 27.5 Hz)
2021-05-09T12:22:39 < qyx> maybe error with decimation?
2021-05-09T12:23:15 < jpa-> so what is the actual samplerate of data you are feeding to FFT?
2021-05-09T12:23:30 < jpa-> 27.5?
2021-05-09T12:23:49 < qyx> 8192 points at 27.5 Hz fed to a pwelch(4096)
2021-05-09T12:24:06 < jpa-> err i just keep messing up the units
2021-05-09T12:24:18 < jpa-> the erroneous modulation is 0.03 Hz not kHz
2021-05-09T12:26:02 < qyx> hm the fundamental should be 1.45 Hz, so idk where did I get 0.03 from
2021-05-09T12:26:18 < jpa-> is your data super secret or can you post it?
2021-05-09T12:28:14 < qyx> third column https://bin.jvnv.net/file/73xnM/batch6.txt.int16
2021-05-09T12:28:48 < qyx> hm, theres some peak
2021-05-09T12:30:00 < qyx> I just repeated it a few times, decimated and crop to 8192 https://paste.jvnv.net/view/rHQYD
2021-05-09T12:30:17 < jpa-> hmm yeah, a huge peak that occurs once in the 70ksample data; that gives freq of 0.015 Hz so maybe that is where the 0.03 comes from
2021-05-09T12:30:37 < jpa-> why do you repeat it?
2021-05-09T12:30:52 < qyx> to get 8192 samples at the decimated rate
2021-05-09T12:31:00 < qyx> you may be right
2021-05-09T12:31:00 < jpa-> just pad with zeros
2021-05-09T12:31:14 < jpa-> actually there are two peaks, one at start and one at middle
2021-05-09T12:31:23 < jpa-> so that's where 0.03 Hz comes from
2021-05-09T12:32:08 < jpa-> but yeah, to get higher FFT resolution it is better to pad with zeros than to repeat, because repeating causes discontinuity at the splicing point
2021-05-09T12:32:18 < jpa-> (pad with zeros after windowing, that is)
2021-05-09T12:32:35 < qyx> I wanted it to be repeated because I have multiple algos running, some of them require smaller batches
2021-05-09T12:32:41 < qyx> 512 samples, etc.
2021-05-09T12:32:42 < jpa-> ok
2021-05-09T12:33:24 < qyx> it is a data batch for automated testing (fed instead of a real accel data)
2021-05-09T12:33:53 < qyx> so yeah, I'll try to remove the peaks
2021-05-09T12:34:38 < jpa-> you could run a median filter on it before decimating
2021-05-09T12:35:08 < jpa-> medfilt1(data, 3)  should get rid of them
2021-05-09T12:39:02 < qyx> no worky, cropped the first 20 samples
2021-05-09T12:39:10 < qyx> I mean medfilt doesn't work
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2021-05-09T13:55:04 < qyx> jpa-: thanks, you were right, I couldn't get rid of the 0.03 Hz noise so I selected a longer encoding instead and did no repeating and cropping
2021-05-09T13:55:13 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KqPxx/Screenshot_2021-05-09_12-53-47.png
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2021-05-09T14:18:11 < jpa-> qyx: nice - i didn't expect that repeating would cause such prominent spikes in spectrum
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2021-05-09T16:24:46 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-09T16:24:56 < mouseghost> idk why but my stm32 lock into watchdog interrupt for some reason
2021-05-09T16:29:27 < mouseghost> it seems to go to whatever its before the third word 
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2021-05-09T16:44:04 < mouseghost> :{{
2021-05-09T16:44:07 < mouseghost> what did i do wroooong
2021-05-09T16:44:08 < mouseghost> help
2021-05-09T16:46:07 -!- fenug [3275a3fa@50.117.163.250] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-09T16:49:54 < jpa-> mouseghost: you should describe what happens more clearly
2021-05-09T16:50:09 < jpa-> and do you have watchdog enabled? are you expecting it to trigger?
2021-05-09T16:55:43 < mouseghost> not at all
2021-05-09T16:55:45 < mouseghost> this is a clean mcu
2021-05-09T16:57:18 < jpa-> so what do you expect to happen if the memory is clean? how do you determine that you are in watchdog interrupt?
2021-05-09T16:57:30 < mouseghost> a suggestion from gdb
2021-05-09T16:57:35 < mouseghost> so that perhaps was a bad call
2021-05-09T16:57:39 < mouseghost> but i think ive kinda got it
2021-05-09T16:57:46 < jpa-> "suggestion"
2021-05-09T16:57:51 < mouseghost> ye ;d
2021-05-09T16:57:51 < jpa-> what's that
2021-05-09T16:58:24 < mouseghost> uhh when you load a file with symbols, gdb shows where you think you are based on pc
2021-05-09T16:58:29 < mouseghost> but as im looking now
2021-05-09T16:58:29 < jpa-> if you mean some function name in backtrace, those are quite meaningless when the code isn't even on the device
2021-05-09T16:58:41 < mouseghost> i mean, it is on the device, i just didnt know where i was, sowwy ;-;
2021-05-09T16:59:03 < mouseghost> huh
2021-05-09T16:59:06 < mouseghost> now it works... hm
2021-05-09T16:59:14 < mouseghost> i wonder...
2021-05-09T16:59:16 < jpa-> you can check epsr in "info reg" to actually see if you are in an interrupt
2021-05-09T16:59:34 < mouseghost> oh, thanks
2021-05-09T17:02:39 < mouseghost> sorry. im not sure what has happened, but i dont have the problem now :/
2021-05-09T17:03:16 < mouseghost> jpa-, pc was set to some weird place with nothing for some reason
2021-05-09T17:03:37 < mouseghost> but now... it works?
2021-05-09T17:04:23 < mouseghost> dont know... maybe i linked incorrectly
2021-05-09T17:04:29 < mouseghost> sorry for bothering .w.
2021-05-09T17:07:43 < mouseghost> couldve set the SP to some too far address
2021-05-09T17:21:24 < qyx> jpa-: s/encoding/recording
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2021-05-09T18:09:19 < mouseghost> do you split your files into .c and .h?
2021-05-09T18:25:19 < qyx> of course
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2021-05-09T18:35:43 < R2COM> so what is better, dwm, i3 or spectrwm
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2021-05-09T18:58:20 < danst> is there an easy way to add sleep delay in the very beginning of hex firmware?
2021-05-09T18:58:37 < danst> firmware is opensource but developer is angry and doesn't tell how to build for my target
2021-05-09T18:58:40 < danst> !!!
2021-05-09T18:59:02 < danst> stm32f722ret6
2021-05-09T18:59:36 < danst> the problem is external devices take slightly more time to init, and arm chip inits faster than external gyro
2021-05-09T18:59:41 < danst> I want to sleep(1000)
2021-05-09T18:59:46 < danst> possible with hex editor?
2021-05-09T19:00:01 < fenug> why not learn how to compile the project
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2021-05-09T19:00:23 < danst> good question fenug, I was hoping for quick and dirty solution and never ever upgrade 
2021-05-09T19:01:00 < fenugrec_> it's not going to be easier to patch the firmware manually.
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2021-05-09T19:16:51 < jpa-> danst: you can change the reset vector address to some unused address at end of flash, put your    for (int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) asm("nop");   loop there and then jump back to the original reset vector
2021-05-09T19:16:52 < danst> they are refusing to give any instructions and very angry
2021-05-09T19:16:54 < danst> ;(
2021-05-09T19:17:30 < jpa-> you could also put a 10uF capacitor on NRST pin to make it rise slower
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2021-05-09T19:20:56 < PaulFertser> danst: was that discussion public, can you share a link?
2021-05-09T19:21:48 < danst> it's inside betaflight slack
2021-05-09T19:21:57 < danst> still want to join if it's slack? :)
2021-05-09T19:23:18 < danst> PaulFertser: in short, I ask "help to add sleep", and they say "buy new device"
2021-05-09T19:23:44 < danst> because gyro is very sensitive to input voltage and other stuff, but hey it works perfectly once I jumpstart it (e.g. software reset instead of cold boot)
2021-05-09T19:24:06 < danst> I've flied it multiple times (it's a flight controller for fpv drones, very popular firmware)
2021-05-09T19:25:08 < PaulFertser> danst: no, slack is not for me :) Recompiling shouldn't be hard
2021-05-09T19:37:28 < PaulFertser> danst: jpa-'s proposal is actually a nice one
2021-05-09T19:48:32 < mouseghost> both are very nice ones
2021-05-09T19:49:22 < kakium69> how is innovation?
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2021-05-09T20:01:00 < qyx> danst: being opensource doesn't automatically mean the creator wants to give a support
2021-05-09T20:04:37 < qyx> also, https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/blob/master/src/main/main.c#L32
2021-05-09T20:04:47 < qyx> place the jpa-'s line here
2021-05-09T20:08:41 < qyx> other things in the wiki are common, ie. get a working toolchain, prepare the env
2021-05-09T20:08:56 < danst> thank you guys
2021-05-09T20:08:59 < danst> I will try <3
2021-05-09T20:09:03 < qyx> a single make <targetname> should build you the firmware
2021-05-09T20:09:33 < qyx> idk whats your target
2021-05-09T20:09:36 < qyx> you said unsupported
2021-05-09T20:10:16 < danst> iflight F722_TWING
2021-05-09T20:10:29 < danst> should be very supported
2021-05-09T20:11:30 < qyx> https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/blob/master/make/targets_list.mk
2021-05-09T20:11:36 < qyx> I don't see anything similar
2021-05-09T20:11:58 < qyx> aha, those are UNsupported
2021-05-09T20:12:11 < danst> ;(
2021-05-09T20:14:49 < qyx> https://imgaz1.staticbg.com/thumb/large/oaupload/ser1/banggood/images/B8/48/b533fbf1-176b-4a4f-a134-b276e09c227d.jpg.webp
2021-05-09T20:14:55 < qyx> whats that FORTIOR
2021-05-09T20:15:55 < qyx> I can identify phase dividers and stuff, so probably some sort of bldc controller
2021-05-09T20:18:00 < kakium69> 2-6S
2021-05-09T20:18:06 < kakium69> battery cell monitor
2021-05-09T20:18:09 < kakium69> ?
2021-05-09T20:18:28 < kakium69> slash bms
2021-05-09T20:19:53 < kakium69> ah
2021-05-09T20:19:53 < danst> qyx: https://i.postimg.cc/g0Y1zs0f/2021-05-09-20-19-21.jpg
2021-05-09T20:19:59 < kakium69> it doesn't have cell connections
2021-05-09T20:20:15 < danst> qyx: but when it comes from the factory, firmware is F722_TWING
2021-05-09T20:27:10 < qyx> kakium69: quad-esc
2021-05-09T20:27:32 < qyx> danst: maybe it is not officially supported
2021-05-09T20:27:55 < qyx> and the manufacturer made the required modifications to add support but didn't push them upstream
2021-05-09T20:28:08 < qyx> may be the reason developers are angry and said you have to buy new device
2021-05-09T20:28:26 < qyx> idk
2021-05-09T20:28:35 < qyx> I see the thing for the first time
2021-05-09T20:31:36 < jpa-> yeah, there is some iflight H7 target but no F722 target
2021-05-09T20:32:13 < jpa-> if it doesn't work, why don't you just ask whoever you bought it from?
2021-05-09T21:03:49 < danst> I figure it out by flashing old firmware from 2020 october
2021-05-09T21:03:57 < danst> but still I very appreciate your input
2021-05-09T21:04:09 < danst> that's cool that hex can be hacked that way
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--- Day changed Mon May 10 2021
2021-05-10T00:05:40 < karlp> qyx: you're very welcome :)
2021-05-10T00:07:34 < englishman> lol betaflight
2021-05-10T00:08:14 < englishman> dongs must be spinning in his grave
2021-05-10T00:12:21 < qyx> have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_B0ji5dnwo
2021-05-10T00:29:24 < karlp> not that particular collection o.
2021-05-10T00:29:29 < karlp> I'm well overdue for another trip
2021-05-10T00:29:39 < karlp> sister went up today, wife went last monday
2021-05-10T00:29:50 < karlp> we went down and visited some fresh lambs instead..
2021-05-10T00:30:07 < karlp> that's the 9am yesterday one, that was pretty big :)
2021-05-10T00:31:12 < karlp> it stopped doing fountains for ~18 hours after that, was jsut doing steady outflow, but sometime today it went back into pause/foutnain/ looping.
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2021-05-10T02:07:37 < jadew> saw the new mulan movie, was ok
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2021-05-10T08:50:22 < R2COM> tct so i found wm which i really liked right away...and its awesomewm
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2021-05-10T09:56:08 < ventyl> i only know one person who uses awesome
2021-05-10T09:56:16 < ventyl> and he edited it to behave like classic WM
2021-05-10T09:56:21 < srk> lol
2021-05-10T09:56:41 < srk> I've used it for like 2 days and then switched back to xmonad
2021-05-10T09:58:05 < ventyl> https://gitlab.com/v01d-sk/awkward/-/tree/awesome-4.0
2021-05-10T09:59:53 < Xogium> heh I use ratooison window manager
2021-05-10T09:59:56 < Xogium> err
2021-05-10T09:59:59 < R2COM> i want wm which already comes configured and one can work with it right after install
2021-05-10T10:00:04 < Xogium> without typo it means ratpoison
2021-05-10T10:00:07 < Xogium> lol
2021-05-10T10:00:15 < R2COM> rather than several day fuckery and patching before you get it to a proper shape
2021-05-10T10:00:20 < srk> ventyl: haha, posielam pozdrav na vychod :)
2021-05-10T10:00:43 < srk> like i3?
2021-05-10T10:00:55 < R2COM> dunno i never used any tiling manager before
2021-05-10T10:00:57 < R2COM> just qtile
2021-05-10T10:01:04 < R2COM> which shitted itself after next python upgrade
2021-05-10T10:01:08 < srk> :D
2021-05-10T10:01:30 < ventyl> srk: odovzdam
2021-05-10T10:02:04 < Xogium> people keep saying yeah you should go away from xorg and use wayland
2021-05-10T10:02:15 < ventyl> i am lazy bastard. i run KDE almost two decades
2021-05-10T10:02:21 < Xogium> to which I keep responding, I'll do that the day where all the accessibility issues in wayland are fixed
2021-05-10T10:02:49 < R2COM> if KDE would be as quality as win10 or macos UI that would be "OK"
2021-05-10T10:02:54 < R2COM> but its shit apparently
2021-05-10T10:03:10 < srk> so buy macos
2021-05-10T10:03:18 < srk> why do you even bother with non-pro oss stuff
2021-05-10T10:03:22 < R2COM> i dont feel like overpaying for inferior hardware
2021-05-10T10:03:37 < R2COM> id buy macos in a heartbeat if it ran on conventional PC
2021-05-10T10:03:40 < Xogium> because I don't have the money ? :p
2021-05-10T10:03:52 < R2COM> i do have more than enough money
2021-05-10T10:03:59 < R2COM> just a matter of principle
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2021-05-10T10:04:08 < R2COM> im a pragmatic though...if i need something ill get it
2021-05-10T10:04:11 < R2COM> just like ipadPro
2021-05-10T10:04:23 < R2COM> got it only cuz noone else could make same sensor screen and pen
2021-05-10T10:04:25 < R2COM> at a time
2021-05-10T10:04:26 < Xogium> and then mac sounds great really but its a lie
2021-05-10T10:04:41 < R2COM> macos is pro unix
2021-05-10T10:04:44 < ventyl> i am not sure if their HW is overpaid RN. today macs are probably cheapest in all the history
2021-05-10T10:04:47 < R2COM> and it works great
2021-05-10T10:05:00 < R2COM> its overpaid if one talks about powerful station
2021-05-10T10:05:01 < ventyl> durability is questionable though
2021-05-10T10:05:10 < Xogium> anything that doesn't use cocoa or whatever it is the native way of making windows in gui apps are you'll have a lot of trouble with. Qt is a total failure regarding accessibility on mac
2021-05-10T10:05:11 < R2COM> i can buiuld similar spec PC beating mac pro
2021-05-10T10:05:15 < R2COM> for 2x less money
2021-05-10T10:05:16 < R2COM> or more
2021-05-10T10:05:36 < ventyl> i am speaking more of M1 macs. intel macs are probably not worth of buying anymore
2021-05-10T10:05:40 < R2COM> Xogium i told you already i dont give a shit to accessability
2021-05-10T10:05:44 < ventyl> they will be obsolete in few years
2021-05-10T10:05:46 < R2COM> im fucking tired about those comments
2021-05-10T10:05:49 < Xogium> so tbh all the pro that keep saying mac is the must when it comes to accessibility don't know what they are saying, or they don't mention that other toolkit than the native one sucks
2021-05-10T10:06:15 < R2COM> M1 is just a small laptop thingy
2021-05-10T10:06:24 < R2COM> or mid level base station
2021-05-10T10:06:43 < R2COM> anyway, im just waiting for next zen3 threadripper from AMD
2021-05-10T10:06:46 < R2COM> and DDR5
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2021-05-10T10:06:59 < R2COM> when its all out, im gonna make major fucking update on PC
2021-05-10T10:07:03 < ventyl> I just wonder: what kind of workload do you run?
2021-05-10T10:07:21 < R2COM> simulation
2021-05-10T10:08:33 < R2COM> and now im going to bed
2021-05-10T10:08:34 < Xogium> there's no os that is perfect for accessibility, of course, it would be stupid to think that there is. Mac sucks when it comes to other toolkit than their native one, windows also does to an extent although qt is better handled there, but don't even think one second about gtk app lol they are totally invisible to screen readers over there. In linux both gtk and qt are okay, though gtk is still the best 
2021-05-10T10:08:40 < Xogium> thing possible
2021-05-10T10:09:25 < Xogium> when I mentioned accessibility issues in wayland I mean that it keeps being a problem for the screen reader, for example in xorg you can simulate a left or right click with it, but in wayland, due to the way things are done, it broke, and you cannot do this at all anymore
2021-05-10T10:11:10 < Xogium> ventyl: tbh I mostly stay in console. Irc is in console, mails are in console, nano, git, server admin, all that stuff
2021-05-10T10:11:34 < ventyl> that's quite expectable, you don't need to enjoy graphic decorations
2021-05-10T10:11:39 < Xogium> but I only use a few gui apps, mainly because I just can't stand browsing internet in console, of all things :p
2021-05-10T10:11:46 < R2COM> i want graphics too
2021-05-10T10:12:00 < ventyl> I don't like wayland a lot also due to way how they designed it by not doing any design
2021-05-10T10:12:16 < ventyl> they simply put it together and then dealt with problems (expectable in advance) as they came
2021-05-10T10:12:19 < Xogium> yeah they kind of leave all the expectations to the window manager or whatever don't they
2021-05-10T10:12:30 < ventyl> that's why certain stuff is no worky even after years of it being used
2021-05-10T10:12:42 < R2COM> linux community is stupid and retarded, they can never design anything useful
2021-05-10T10:13:16 < R2COM> for last 20 years, linux never was successful in desktops, neither it will for next 20 years
2021-05-10T10:13:49 < R2COM> Apple managed to take away solid amount of customers from MS, linux fags managed nothing in the area of desktops/laptops
2021-05-10T10:13:56 < Xogium> I mean I'm not really against or for it, but I see no point to switching when so many things I use daily would break
2021-05-10T10:14:00 < R2COM> other than this imbecilistic shit called Chromebook
2021-05-10T10:14:24 < ventyl> chromebook has little to do with linux as desktop OS
2021-05-10T10:14:28 < ventyl> if anything at all
2021-05-10T10:14:35 < Xogium> you'd be surprised the number of websites I have to simulate left or right click on items because the enter and space bar keys are not enough since they don't care about doing decent keyboard navigation
2021-05-10T10:14:39 < Xogium> :D
2021-05-10T10:14:41 < ventyl> there's linux kernel chopped to bare minimum down under
2021-05-10T10:14:43 < R2COM> its something what moron Linus Torvalds is proud of
2021-05-10T10:14:49 < R2COM> as derivative of his work
2021-05-10T10:15:29 < R2COM> theres linux kernel so its "linux" kernel based OS
2021-05-10T10:15:35 < R2COM> just like macos is freebsd based
2021-05-10T10:15:39 < R2COM> although heavily modified
2021-05-10T10:15:55 < R2COM> even more heavily 
2021-05-10T10:16:08 < ventyl> fbsd in macos is somewhat different story
2021-05-10T10:16:22 < ventyl> bsd in macos is mostly compatible, android is not mostly compatible linux
2021-05-10T10:16:33 < ventyl> certain stuff behaves completely different
2021-05-10T10:16:42 < R2COM> bsd is not compatible with macos
2021-05-10T10:16:55 < R2COM> no executables compatible
2021-05-10T10:17:01 < R2COM> and core is heavily modified
2021-05-10T10:17:32 < Xogium> yeah saying android is linux is like saying that mac is freebsd
2021-05-10T10:17:41 < R2COM> but because bsd was MIT, its successor is so *successful* in market
2021-05-10T10:17:50 < R2COM> whereas linux is based on a communist GPL license
2021-05-10T10:18:18 < R2COM> so nobody will ever give a shit to it for it to be successul on desktops for average users
2021-05-10T10:18:31 < R2COM> just server space or personal in-house OS for own purposes
2021-05-10T10:18:39 < R2COM> for server again mainly
2021-05-10T10:18:41 < ventyl> heh, i am not quite sure if GPL itself is reason why linux is not used on desktop
2021-05-10T10:18:49 < R2COM> its one of main reasons
2021-05-10T10:18:54 < ventyl> but if this serves your argumentation :)
2021-05-10T10:18:56 < ventyl> huh?
2021-05-10T10:19:06 < Xogium> well, I run it here. Runs pretty good, as long as you use xorg
2021-05-10T10:19:15 < Xogium> at least for what I'm doing
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2021-05-10T10:19:23 < Xogium> which isn't much I'll grant you that
2021-05-10T10:19:30 < R2COM> one thing to realize is..GPL only holds off responsible law-abiding companies from not making ripoffs in commercial purpose
2021-05-10T10:19:37 < R2COM> but not chinese or other countries etc
2021-05-10T10:19:43 < R2COM> so that shit is purely obsolete
2021-05-10T10:19:53 < R2COM> its a populistic license
2021-05-10T10:20:02 < R2COM> so no serious company will donate back
2021-05-10T10:20:16 < R2COM> although linux foundation is based on donations from companies from MS
2021-05-10T10:20:38 < R2COM> its kinda funny...lunix retards position themselves as people running free software so that big corps dont spy on them
2021-05-10T10:20:39 < R2COM> but
2021-05-10T10:20:55 < R2COM> fucking linux foundations board of directors are people from MS, google etc
2021-05-10T10:20:56 < R2COM> lmao
2021-05-10T10:21:21 < R2COM> there was even some scandal not long ago about how those high level directors of lunix foundation running macs and not ever user linux
2021-05-10T10:21:41 < R2COM> but linux sheeple believe that development of OS which they run is made by people fighting for free software
2021-05-10T10:23:12 < R2COM> also, linux is just a poor ripoff from unix
2021-05-10T10:23:42 < R2COM> anyway
2021-05-10T10:23:44 < R2COM> sleep time
2021-05-10T10:25:02 < ventyl> even if considered poor ripoff, it probably has higher market share globally than all other flavours of unix combined
2021-05-10T10:25:16 < Xogium> was just about to say that
2021-05-10T10:25:46 < ventyl> except of minix, well.. because of intel
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2021-05-10T10:35:44 < qyx> g-what for not using lunix on desktop?
2021-05-10T10:51:01 < Amun_Ra> "companies not donating back" is BSD license thingy
2021-05-10T11:08:25 < ventyl> many corporates have mental issues of sharing code amoung different teams of same corporation inside one project pipeline
2021-05-10T11:08:42 < ventyl> s/of/with/
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2021-05-10T12:50:56 < karlp> 07:17:41       R2COM | but because bsd was MIT, its successor is so *successful* in market
2021-05-10T12:51:02 < karlp> that's an amazeballs line :)
2021-05-10T12:51:10 < karlp> as if bsd wouldn't be _bsd_ ....
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2021-05-10T16:39:26 < Laurenceb_> sup trolls
2021-05-10T16:39:36 < Laurenceb_> anyone here have a raspberry pi?
2021-05-10T16:41:42 < karlp> try asking the real question knobjockey. you know better than this...
2021-05-10T16:46:28 < Laurenceb_> any idea how long it takes ot shutdown?
2021-05-10T16:46:32 < Laurenceb_> sudo shutdown now
2021-05-10T16:47:10 < karlp> that's going to depend a lot on what's running....
2021-05-10T16:47:38 < Xogium> either way systemd should terminate everything in under 2 minutes max
2021-05-10T16:48:04 < Xogium> its a rather long timeout I think, 1min 30s
2021-05-10T16:48:18 < Xogium> but its to allow apps to gracefully terminate in case they have to take a while
2021-05-10T16:48:29 < qyx> Laurenceb_: <15 sec for a new raspbian lite image or whatever is the thing called
2021-05-10T16:48:39 < Laurenceb_> ok
2021-05-10T16:48:40 < qyx> console only of course
2021-05-10T16:48:43 < Xogium> if there's nothing that hangs however it should be almost instant
2021-05-10T16:48:48 < Xogium> like under 2 seconds
2021-05-10T16:48:50 < Laurenceb_> raspberry pi4 ?
2021-05-10T16:49:00 < qyx> zero for my case
2021-05-10T16:49:08 < Laurenceb_> ok
2021-05-10T16:49:09 < Xogium> wow 15 secs, that's rather slow
2021-05-10T16:49:12 < Laurenceb_> heh
2021-05-10T16:49:34 < Xogium> maybe raspbian do other stuff
2021-05-10T16:55:37 < englishman> Laurenceb_: mine shuts off immediately when i unplug it, which is the only reason to shut down lunix
2021-05-10T16:55:52 < Laurenceb_> lollll
2021-05-10T17:02:19 < danst> try poweroff
2021-05-10T17:02:45 < danst> and ro root
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2021-05-10T17:03:30 < Xogium> well shutdown and poweroff do the exact same thing
2021-05-10T17:03:46 < danst> I thought shutdown -h now is kinda graceful shutdown, no?
2021-05-10T17:04:07 < danst> while poweroff should be just deth
2021-05-10T17:04:21 < Xogium> poweroff is same as shutdown now
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2021-05-10T17:05:28 < Xogium> and these days with systemd, poweroff is in fact a symlink to systemctl, which runs systemctl poweroff
2021-05-10T17:05:48 < Xogium> and pretty much the same for shutdown
2021-05-10T17:06:19 < Xogium> now of coourse if you amuse yourself passing -f or -ff, its gonna be a lot more violent
2021-05-10T17:06:24 < Xogium> *course
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2021-05-10T17:07:03 < Xogium> -ff is pretty much equivalent to pulling the cable
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2021-05-10T18:06:09  * Laurenceb_ is wondering if he could use a supercap to keep rpi running while it shuts down safely
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2021-05-10T19:13:42 < karlp> any reason why you couldn't use this for wifi/bt as well? it covers the 2.4gig range right?
2021-05-10T19:13:44 < karlp> https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-2367286-1.html
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2021-05-10T19:24:00 < aandrew> I don't see why not
2021-05-10T19:26:47 < karlp> I mean, there's different curves and shit, but fuck me, so many options with such little differences
2021-05-10T19:28:20 < jpa-> probably it's not marketed for wifi because most new wifi devices support 5GHz
2021-05-10T19:30:23 < karlp> wondering whether I really need two bom lines or one...
2021-05-10T19:31:46 < jpa-> https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Tyco%20Electonics%20AMP%20PDFs/IOT_Antennas_Overview.pdf   for some reason 2118879-1 has wifi and other protocols listed when the frequencies seem the same as 2367286-1
2021-05-10T19:35:42 < karlp> yeah, that's the same document I was reading and going "huh?" at
2021-05-10T19:36:19 < karlp> well, 8879 is also SMA mounting, but 
2021-05-10T19:36:26 < jpa-> it also doesn't seem to match what they say on their own website
2021-05-10T19:37:27 < karlp> is there something abotu wifi/bt that meansyou can't use wideband antennas?
2021-05-10T19:38:38 < jpa-> not that i know, but i don't know much about RF stuff; i could see that an antenna optimized for narrower band could be more efficient or better tuned over that band than a wideband antenna is
2021-05-10T19:40:01 < jpa-> one thing that comes to mind is if the LTE stuff that the wideband antenna receives would somehow saturate the wifi module RX side - but seems far-fetched
2021-05-10T19:44:26 < karlp> eh, it's a pluggable component anyway.
2021-05-10T19:44:34 < karlp> will buy both and maybe try it out.
2021-05-10T19:45:09 < karlp> now, why is there "pulse larsen antennas" and also "pulse electronics" both selling antennas.
2021-05-10T19:45:22 < karlp> pulse larsen is a subsidiary of pulse electronics,
2021-05-10T19:45:28 < karlp> whcih is in turn a subsidiary of yageo
2021-05-10T19:46:14 < karlp> and pla has bit.ly links on their own page....
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2021-05-10T21:43:26 < zyp> Laurenceb_, wouldn't it be more reasonable to just design the system so that a power interruption can't corrupt anything?
2021-05-10T21:43:55 < Laurenceb_> zyp: yeah, but how
2021-05-10T21:44:07 < Laurenceb_> Rpi is powered of vehicle ignition switch
2021-05-10T21:44:13 < Laurenceb_> so it can be turned off at any time
2021-05-10T21:44:28 < zyp> well, journalling file systems already takes care of most
2021-05-10T21:44:43 < Laurenceb_> ok
2021-05-10T21:45:01 < Laurenceb_> how about two partitions?
2021-05-10T21:45:04 < zyp> if you want to make it more hardy, put everything you don't need to be writable on a partition that's mounted readonly
2021-05-10T21:45:14 < Laurenceb_> one for the OS, read only? Would that be possible?
2021-05-10T21:45:20 < zyp> yes, that is common
2021-05-10T21:45:23 < Laurenceb_> ok
2021-05-10T21:45:41 < Laurenceb_> then journaling file system for the data?
2021-05-10T21:45:54 < zyp> yeah
2021-05-10T21:46:26 < zyp> and then it's just up to the application not fucking up if a write doesn't complete
2021-05-10T21:46:57 < Laurenceb_> got it, thanks
2021-05-10T21:47:49 < Laurenceb_> looks like SCMR22L105SRBB0 would have worked anyway
2021-05-10T21:47:56 < Laurenceb_> 1F, 9V supercap
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2021-05-10T21:50:14 < antto> wut'cha doin with that BOILER
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2021-05-11T01:40:29 < qyx> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/gradconn/RFPC-SMA16-FN-A/9925279
2021-05-11T01:40:32 < qyx> the price..
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2021-05-11T02:42:08 < kakium69> hello night crew
2021-05-11T02:47:24 < kakium69> steff
2021-05-11T02:47:37 < kakium69> lurence
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2021-05-11T03:21:55 < kakium69> wow it's hecking warm tommorow
2021-05-11T03:21:58 < kakium69> 22C
2021-05-11T03:22:21 < kakium69> then 23C and then 24C
2021-05-11T03:32:36 < R2COM> 22c is cold no
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2021-05-11T04:00:42 < kakium69> 22C is ass sweating hot
2021-05-11T04:00:55 < kakium69> I think I'
2021-05-11T04:01:09 < kakium69> m going to get my car A/C filled tommorow
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2021-05-11T08:10:58 < machinehum> syh
2021-05-11T08:11:00 < machinehum> hui
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2021-05-11T08:42:59 < machinehum> Well this is fucking lame
2021-05-11T08:43:20 < machinehum> guess i'll just get drunk and go to bed
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2021-05-11T11:40:27 < jly> any cum boys on today
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2021-05-11T12:39:23 < invzim> pros, is there usually a discount pr board pr cm^2 when doing larger boards?
2021-05-11T12:40:18 < invzim> got a quote for a 137x160mm board that looked high, but when comparing usd/cm2 it's about what I paid last time
2021-05-11T13:23:37 < jpa-> invzim: i don't think there is discount per board size, just per board count usually
2021-05-11T13:24:06 < jpa-> unless you have some special process where you pay the whole panel fee in any case
2021-05-11T13:26:09 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/noise_rms.png   meh, rigol RMS calculation is a bit useless because it only uses the displayed points and it applies some weird "keep the extremes" decimation
2021-05-11T13:32:12 < invzim> hm, this is qty 100 with assembly
2021-05-11T13:32:35 < invzim> and great news (for me), just got order confirmation for 2 trays of stm32f401vdt \o/
2021-05-11T13:32:43 < invzim> delivery next week
2021-05-11T13:33:15 < jly> is it hard to get stm32 chips now?
2021-05-11T13:36:16 < jpa-> jly: some of them
2021-05-11T13:36:38 < jly> fair 
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2021-05-11T14:05:30 < invzim> yes it is hard Ø:)
2021-05-11T14:06:47 < invzim> havenæt thought about it that way before, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a toilet paper effect going on with companies hoarding
2021-05-11T14:07:53 < jly> has been since the dark ages yea
2021-05-11T14:08:14 < karlp> well, mixed success... simplicity studio now crashes -differently_ on a clean fedora 34 install than it did on my old upgraded repeatedly fedora 32 install
2021-05-11T14:08:35 < Xogium> the fun never stops, huh ?
2021-05-11T14:08:43 < Xogium> gotta love when software do that
2021-05-11T14:09:14 < karlp> same export GDK_BACKEND=x11 still works though, so there's that at least...
2021-05-11T14:11:57 < ventyl> that would suggest a problem in graphics driver
2021-05-11T14:13:06 < karlp> more likely a problem in how simplicity studio has abused java drawing libraries...
2021-05-11T14:13:25 < karlp> quite likely even by simply assuming too much and trying to be clever instead of just letting the drawing toolkit "do the right thing"
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2021-05-11T14:42:54 < karlp> hrm, now, hibernate is gone again, becuase I don't hve a swap partition 
2021-05-11T14:42:57 < karlp> thanks defaults...
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2021-05-11T15:27:38 < invzim> thank god I use win10 for desktop \o/
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2021-05-11T16:38:48 < jadew> lenovo sucks
2021-05-11T16:39:18 < jadew> wife got me a new laptop and within an hour the clickpad started to rattle when I touch it
2021-05-11T16:39:39 < jadew> not sure if I should return it
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2021-05-11T17:04:21 < karlp> fwell, still no luck.
2021-05-11T17:04:29 < karlp> suspend works. hibernate... starts to try and then gives up
2021-05-11T17:04:33  * karlp flips the table
2021-05-11T17:06:57 < Ultrasauce> what distro?
2021-05-11T17:14:26 < Steffanx> Sample 1/1 jadew?
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2021-05-11T17:18:01 < jadew> Steffanx, turns out no, found two youtube videos and a forum post on this issue
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2021-05-11T17:18:34 < jadew> my mother in law has the same model and hers is ok
2021-05-11T17:18:58 < jadew> the store has one more in stock so I'm considering replacing it
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2021-05-11T17:22:11 < jadew> it's otherwise a nice laptop, I like it
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2021-05-11T17:32:51 < bitmask> good morning
2021-05-11T17:36:06 < kakium69> morgon
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2021-05-11T17:38:25 < bitmask> i gotta choose new SSRs, the ones i wanted arent in stock :(
2021-05-11T17:39:20 < bitmask> well one is out of stock the other is expensive
2021-05-11T17:41:00 < karlp> Ultrasauce: fedora 34.  clean install, so btrfs for all, 
2021-05-11T17:41:43 < karlp> have gotten a subvolume, made a swap file, swapon, got the extents for resume= and resume_offset=, but it won't even enter hibernation. it just dims the screen and stalls.
2021-05-11T17:41:53 < karlp> need a break from it, but tedious.
2021-05-11T17:42:25 < karlp> like yeay yeay, laptops can just suspend... and sure, suspend works, but I kinda like to just turn of the power, and turn off all the lights and shit that goes with it.
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2021-05-11T18:01:41 < Ultrasauce> hmu if you want a second pair of eyes when you get back to it
2021-05-11T18:03:51 < karlp> I've got "echo disk > /sys/power/state" working ... so it must be fucking close..
2021-05-11T18:04:13 < Ultrasauce> probably /etc/systemd/sleep.conf is misconfigured then
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2021-05-11T18:16:58 < mawk> is the swap big enough
2021-05-11T18:17:06 < mawk> karlp: 
2021-05-11T18:18:49 < karlp> systemd-sleep[4936]: Failed to find location to hibernate to: Permission denied
2021-05-11T18:19:06 < Xogium> sounds like selinux shit going on
2021-05-11T18:19:08 < mawk> it's a swapfile?
2021-05-11T18:19:33 < mawk> ah yes
2021-05-11T18:19:55 < mawk> yes so maybe some magic is preventing access to the swapfile, try to setenforce 0 to see if it changes anything
2021-05-11T18:20:08 < karlp> mawk: echo disk > sys/power/state wouldn't work in that case, and yes, it's big enough. it's equal to ram, and less than /sys/power/image_size by a good margin
2021-05-11T18:25:49 < jpa-> less than?
2021-05-11T18:26:17 < jpa-> ah
2021-05-11T18:29:59 < karlp> you're righrt, greater than.
2021-05-11T18:30:15 < karlp> either way, doesn't feel relevant when asking the kernel explicitly works.
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2021-05-11T19:50:25 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/5BCkdml.jpg
2021-05-11T19:54:25 < antto> karlp, on linux i only use suspend.. the hibernate thing sounds fishy to me
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2021-05-11T19:55:33 < bitmask> hmm
2021-05-11T19:55:58 < bitmask> any idea how to find those panasonic anti-vibe smd electrolytics as a step file
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2021-05-11T20:23:41 < karlp> antto: and suspend works just fine, but that doesn't do much good across power off :)
2021-05-11T20:24:02 < antto> of course it doesn't
2021-05-11T20:24:15 < bitmask> any cheapish SSR ICs for around 3A? The one im planning on using is $10-11
2021-05-11T20:24:24 < antto> i'm just skeptical about the hibernate scheme
2021-05-11T20:24:30 < karlp> antto: .... which is why I'm trying to get hibernate back again
2021-05-11T20:24:35 < antto> iirc, it uses the swap partition
2021-05-11T20:24:37 < karlp> it worked before on older systems.
2021-05-11T20:24:54 < karlp> and it works via linux power sysfs entries, just not frrom "systemctl hibernate"
2021-05-11T20:25:06 < antto> huh
2021-05-11T20:25:38 < Xogium> I still think this is selinux related
2021-05-11T20:25:39 < Xogium> somehow
2021-05-11T20:25:47 < Ultrasauce> fwiw i had a glance through the systemd source and the only path i saw that doesnt have additional failure prints was failing to open /sys/power/resume initially
2021-05-11T20:25:56 < Ultrasauce> so that assessment is likely a good lead
2021-05-11T20:26:13 < Xogium> selinux is always a world of trouble imo
2021-05-11T20:26:56 < Xogium> its also a real issue for blind people trying to use braille displays on selinux :p they often don't have a policy to let brltty grab the braille display
2021-05-11T20:27:04 < Xogium> which sucks
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2021-05-11T21:05:07 < bitmask> any thoughts on using two of these for switcher output? i dont know why they seem cheap and fit into a small package
2021-05-11T21:05:07 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Murata-Electronics/GRM31CR61E476ME44K?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvsSlwiRhF8qkksfik7SoJnAOm0sUM9naiaB21v2EF3ZQ%3D%3D
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2021-05-11T21:32:52 < Ultrasauce> my thoughts are read the switcher's datasheet another 3 times cause it might have some weird constraints on the output cap
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2021-05-11T21:38:59 < kakium69> lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
2021-05-11T21:44:27 < bitmask> hmm
2021-05-11T21:44:28 < bitmask> k
2021-05-11T21:45:13 < bitmask> also, for a separate case,, if the capacitance isnt all that important is it fine to use a 16V cap on a 12V line?
2021-05-11T21:45:43 < bitmask> you dont need to provide tons of headroom right?
2021-05-11T21:46:15 < kakium69> what cap
2021-05-11T21:46:19 < bitmask> 1uF
2021-05-11T21:46:32 < bitmask> mlcc
2021-05-11T21:46:58 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-11T21:47:00 < kakium69> it will hold
2021-05-11T21:47:03 < bitmask> k
2021-05-11T21:47:30 < bitmask> I have 25V and 16V, maybe i'll throw the 25V on anyway but if it doesnt matter maybe its worth saving the 25Vs
2021-05-11T21:47:56 < Steffanx> dont blow it
2021-05-11T21:48:14 < bitmask> so i should use the 25V?
2021-05-11T21:48:19 < kakium69> you can actually check exactly how much capacitance is derated from datasheet
2021-05-11T21:48:29 < kakium69> it's fine bitmask
2021-05-11T21:48:39 < bitmask> k
2021-05-11T21:49:40 < Steffanx> got some musics mr kakium69?
2021-05-11T21:50:17 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RXSD_6FXXA encore?
2021-05-11T21:50:44 < Steffanx> that again?
2021-05-11T21:50:51 < Steffanx> Wasnt impressed
2021-05-11T21:54:52 < kakium69> I have not searched musics today yet
2021-05-11T21:56:13 < Steffanx> im disappointed kakium69
2021-05-11T21:56:24 < kakium69> understandable
2021-05-11T21:59:53 < Steffanx> youre forgiven
2021-05-11T22:03:50 < kakium69> got my car A/C filled today
2021-05-11T22:03:57 < kakium69> 23C outside
2021-05-11T22:04:05 < kakium69> crazy weather
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2021-05-11T23:22:14 < steve_> in GNU size, is .stack included in bss size?  appears so.  any reasoning?  any other stuff included in that size count?
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2021-05-11T23:30:11 < karlp> .stack isn't any sort of standard section
2021-05-11T23:32:41 < karlp> steve_: what toolchain and environment are you getting that with?
2021-05-11T23:32:45 < steve_> ah nice, size --format=sysv is much more appropriate
2021-05-11T23:32:51 < karlp> I've seen that with some silabs stuff
2021-05-11T23:32:57 < steve_> arm-none-eabi-gcc
2021-05-11T23:36:40 < karlp> I more meant, what tooling/libs/apps gave you a .stack section?
2021-05-11T23:36:57 < steve_> interestingly --format=sysv does not show .data, it shows .relocate
2021-05-11T23:38:16 < steve_> oh i see, these are output sections.  The linker script I have defines the .stack section, it's an atmel part
2021-05-11T23:39:10 < karlp> nominally, .stack might not need initializing, so it's arguablyl not "bss" but given that "bsd" style size only has text/bss/data, it's _more_ correct to call it bss than data...
2021-05-11T23:40:40 < steve_> yes.  I was wondering if every section gets counted though in BSD style, regardless of section name.  seems like it is.
2021-05-11T23:42:28 < karlp> you'd probably have to check the source to see what gets counted as what...
2021-05-11T23:42:45 < steve_> anyway doesnt matter, I see there are more superior usages of binutils than just size as-is
2021-05-11T23:43:28 < karlp> it's a good starting point, but you have to know what it's telling you :)
2021-05-11T23:44:18 < steve_> yeah its good for a quick diff, not as an absolute size count
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--- Day changed Wed May 12 2021
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2021-05-12T00:30:19 < zyp> I think text counts executable sections, data counts initialized sections and bss counts uninitialized sections
2021-05-12T00:30:44 < zyp> so a .stack would naturally be counted as bss
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2021-05-12T01:54:24 < Mangy_Dog> wtf is going on with stm32 mcus?
2021-05-12T01:54:34 < Mangy_Dog> the prices have utterly skyrocketted
2021-05-12T01:55:22 < zyp> you know there's a semiconductor shortage right now?
2021-05-12T01:55:36 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt realise it was effecting low end mcus like this
2021-05-12T01:55:46 < zyp> it's hit stm32 pretty bad
2021-05-12T01:55:52 < Mangy_Dog> clearly
2021-05-12T01:56:00 < Mangy_Dog> ive now seen other prices like 30 quid per chip
2021-05-12T01:56:12 < Mangy_Dog> its insane
2021-05-12T01:56:14 < zyp> supply and demand
2021-05-12T01:56:24 < Mangy_Dog> im now worried
2021-05-12T01:56:31 < Mangy_Dog> as im running out of chips in my bin D:
2021-05-12T01:56:45 < zyp> cool, join the party
2021-05-12T01:56:56 < Mangy_Dog> ive only got about 4 left
2021-05-12T01:58:38 < Mangy_Dog> https://lcsc.com/search?q=stm32f103C8T6  19$ from lcsc
2021-05-12T01:58:54 < Mangy_Dog> per chip
2021-05-12T01:59:14 < zyp> I've got a project I've been planning to do for a while, but I'm not even gonna bother until the supply situation normalizes
2021-05-12T01:59:28 < Mangy_Dog> yeah :/
2021-05-12T01:59:35 < Mangy_Dog>  i have a couple i want to start soon
2021-05-12T01:59:38 < Mangy_Dog> new speedo project
2021-05-12T01:59:49 < Mangy_Dog> and a hardware monitor project for the new computer ill be building soon
2021-05-12T01:59:58 < zyp> but that's one offs, right?
2021-05-12T02:00:14 < Mangy_Dog> sure but its still a lot of money for a "cheap" one off
2021-05-12T02:00:21 < Mangy_Dog> but yeah if i was making 10-20-100 units
2021-05-12T02:00:27 < Mangy_Dog> that would be eye watering
2021-05-12T02:00:40 < Mangy_Dog> clearly i wont be able to take any more tricorder orders
2021-05-12T02:00:41 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-05-12T02:00:46 < Mangy_Dog> its going to be just these three for now
2021-05-12T02:02:33 < Mangy_Dog> even a GDf103 is 3.25 :/
2021-05-12T02:04:39 < jadew> never thought I'd do that, but I'm shopping for something and I arranged by most expensive first
2021-05-12T02:05:09 < jadew> and still can't find what I'm looking for
2021-05-12T02:10:38 < Mangy_Dog> right i got 5 f103c8 known good ones... and 10 possibly good ones maybe from the same order
2021-05-12T02:10:58 < Mangy_Dog> but noticed one has a sharpie marker mark on one of the chips soooooo might be dodgy as fuck
2021-05-12T02:11:50 < jadew> my chips stayed the same price
2021-05-12T02:11:58 < Mangy_Dog> which chip?
2021-05-12T02:12:10 < jadew> RF shits
2021-05-12T02:12:42 < jadew> but they were expensive to begin with
2021-05-12T02:13:51 < jadew> hmm, I wonder if other chips I've been looking for had the price inflated and I ignored them because of that
2021-05-12T02:14:16 < jadew> but in a year's time they could fall back into the reasonable range
2021-05-12T02:18:36 < Mangy_Dog> if im careful and done make loads of embedded projects ill be ok
2021-05-12T02:18:49 < Mangy_Dog> i may have to delay my bluetooth speaker system i want to make
2021-05-12T02:18:56 < Mangy_Dog> as thats goign to use lots of stuff
2021-05-12T02:19:00 < Mangy_Dog> soo will be over priced
2021-05-12T02:27:05 < bitmask> ugh, why did I think 11.9 kOhm would exist, guess I gotta add another in series
2021-05-12T02:27:24 < jadew> house of cards
2021-05-12T02:37:13 < bitmask> cant believe how much im spending on this project :P
2021-05-12T02:37:25 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/r9kvAcC.png
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2021-05-12T02:39:17 < jadew> I might have to spend ~$500 on two ICs
2021-05-12T02:39:25 < bitmask> jesus, what ICs?
2021-05-12T02:39:31 < jly> ty
2021-05-12T02:39:35 < jly> i want to know
2021-05-12T02:39:39 < jadew> some wide band amplifiers
2021-05-12T02:39:51 < jly> where
2021-05-12T02:40:16 < jly> what one
2021-05-12T02:40:18 < jadew> I'm still in the part identification stage, but they're all $200+
2021-05-12T02:41:10 < jadew> I need DC to 20 GHz and 1W+ out
2021-05-12T02:42:13 < jadew> and then there's the design part, which I don't want to do
2021-05-12T02:42:16 < jadew> because it's hard
2021-05-12T02:42:22 < jly> freelancer
2021-05-12T02:42:27 < jadew> fiverr
2021-05-12T02:42:36 < jly> thanks
2021-05-12T02:46:44 < jadew> keysight has something that fits the bill, but it's with "get quote" and second hand costs as much as a small car
2021-05-12T02:47:41 < jadew> I assume when new, it costs as much as a small apartment
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2021-05-12T02:57:11 < bitmask> heh
2021-05-12T02:57:45 < bitmask> i dont feel so bad about my project anymore so thanks for that :P
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2021-05-12T10:06:46 < mouseghost> uhhhh ;-------;
2021-05-12T10:06:59  * jpa- revives mouseghost 
2021-05-12T10:07:09 < mouseghost> hi jpa-, thanks for rev ;-;
2021-05-12T10:07:54 < mouseghost> eh idk why but now i cant get spi to work uhhhhh
2021-05-12T10:08:12 < mouseghost> on f05
2021-05-12T10:10:28 < mouseghost> wo new arduino ide is skinned vscode
2021-05-12T10:18:56 < Xogium> mouseghost: yeah that's what I heard. It can't really hurt, imo. At least for disabled people. VScode is much more usable than some java crap where they packaged their own java rather than use the one available on the system, and then went out of their way to remove the entire accessibility stack
2021-05-12T10:19:14 < mouseghost> true
2021-05-12T10:19:31 < Xogium> hopefully it helps blind people working with arduino
2021-05-12T10:19:40 < Xogium> or any esp32 or whatever
2021-05-12T10:19:50 < PaulFertser> Another question would be what value does arduino IDE ever add.
2021-05-12T10:20:41 < jpa-> i wonder why they bother with skinning it, IMO they could just provide extension like pretty much every other language does for vscode
2021-05-12T10:21:12 < Xogium> that's fair
2021-05-12T10:21:28 < jpa-> PaulFertser: biggest value is that it is very easy to install toolchain for whatever platform in arduino IDE
2021-05-12T10:21:34 < PaulFertser> And arduino is not even a language.
2021-05-12T10:22:17 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, tell me more
2021-05-12T10:24:58 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: arduino was just a rather shitty "IDE" where you could quickly choose one of the atmega targets with funny names and it did some funny preprocessing for files named *.ino , and that's about it. Everything else was plain g++ , avrdude and a poor serial terminal emulator.
2021-05-12T10:25:15 < mouseghost> mm .-.
2021-05-12T10:26:23 < jpa-> PaulFertser: arduino code has different rules than C++
2021-05-12T10:26:36 < jpa-> so.. if not a language, what is it? dialect?
2021-05-12T10:28:07 < PaulFertser> jpa-: what rules are different other than something like "everything global has an implicit forward declaration added by ino preprocessing"?
2021-05-12T10:29:42 < ventyl> jpa-: as if installing proper toolchain (especially for AVR) was so much harder
2021-05-12T10:30:21 < mouseghost> on the other hand if someone doesnt even fuck around with registers and isrs...
2021-05-12T10:35:27 < jpa-> PaulFertser: includes work differently also
2021-05-12T10:36:26 < jpa-> ventyl: for AVR it seems to be particularly hard, considering avr-libc has been broken and unmaintained for years and most toolchains also ship AVR-GCC that is a decade old ;)
2021-05-12T10:36:48 < jpa-> (not that arduino any better in that)
2021-05-12T10:37:09 < PaulFertser> jpa-: and iirc sometimes rather buggy and unpredictable because it's not supposed a meaningful language but just a simple preprocessor designed to hide "complexity" of C and C++ compilation and linking steps.
2021-05-12T10:38:54 < jpa-> PaulFertser: sure, i'm not a big fan of it myself either; but it is not C++
2021-05-12T10:39:41 < PaulFertser> jpa-: afaik, it almost is, and sane people could just name their files *.cpp and .h and have predictable results. 
2021-05-12T10:39:41 < ventyl> jpa-: hm, i haven't had any problems building avr-libc
2021-05-12T10:46:52 < mouseghost> when i try to use spi i always seem to read 0xffff from DR register
2021-05-12T10:48:00 < mouseghost> tho last time i checked there was nothing seen on lines uhhh
2021-05-12T10:48:04 < mouseghost> so idk whats up x_x
2021-05-12T10:51:48 < jpa-> PaulFertser: sane people can rename their .c files to .cpp and have predictable results :)
2021-05-12T10:52:59 < ventyl> mouseghost: H7 SPI has "I really want to claim SPI AF on GPIO" flag, without it, the whole stuff does just bullshit
2021-05-12T10:53:06 < ventyl> IDK about others
2021-05-12T10:53:33 < PaulFertser> jpa-: of course. (some parts of) OpenOCD predictably fail to compile in C++ mode.
2021-05-12T10:54:02 < PaulFertser> jpa-: last time I tried it was not even possible with -fpermissive due to using name initializer syntax for filling structs.
2021-05-12T10:54:27 < mouseghost> ventyl, wheres that flag? in f05 theres AF register in gpio which should designate the peripheral
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2021-05-12T10:56:00 < ventyl> mouseghost: in SPI control register
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2021-05-12T10:58:46 < jpa-> ventyl: i mean functional bugs like realloc() corrupting heap or strftime() overrunning buffer etc; looks like last avr-libc release was in 2016; last year it had two commits, one was "annual changelog rotation" and other was some submitted bugfix for delay_ms() - so even though it is widely used it seems avr-libc is mostly unmaintained nowadays and most bugs remain unfixed
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2021-05-12T11:00:56 < Steffann> stm32f050 must be the first stm32 to be obsolete. Im not even sure I ever heard of it before mouseghost mentioned it
2021-05-12T11:01:20 < ventyl> jpa-: ah ok. that's class of functions I wouldn't use on an AVR
2021-05-12T11:03:35 < jpa-> Steffann: i have actually used STM32F052
2021-05-12T11:04:30 < Steffann> Yes, but that's f0x2 :P
2021-05-12T11:04:38 < jpa-> but that's discontinued also
2021-05-12T11:04:53 < Steffann> Ah I see
2021-05-12T11:05:05 < Steffann> F51 isnt
2021-05-12T11:05:19 < Steffann> Yet 
2021-05-12T11:05:55 < jpa-> hmm.. or at least i think it was 052
2021-05-12T11:06:10 < mouseghost> gotta buy obsolete mcus which are available ;d
2021-05-12T11:06:10 < mouseghost> https://bpa.st/TNCO3FWSGUMFYTL63MTW5JVQPQ
2021-05-12T11:06:34 < jpa-> it is weird how STM32F050 and STM32F052 have been totally removed from distributor sites, as if they have never existed
2021-05-12T11:07:00 < Steffann> Mouser knows about it..
2021-05-12T11:07:23 < jpa-> only 050 though
2021-05-12T11:07:32 < jpa-> and 052 discovery
2021-05-12T11:08:33 < jpa-> hmm, the product change notifications says that F050 has just been renamed to F031
2021-05-12T11:08:57 < jpa-> no mention about F052.. maybe it was F051 then that i used
2021-05-12T11:09:14 < mouseghost> wait, it has? fr? jpa-
2021-05-12T11:09:16 < mouseghost> that rename
2021-05-12T11:09:23 < jpa-> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/STMicroelectronics_8352.pdf
2021-05-12T11:09:29 < qyx> yeah I was puzzled abnout it too in the pas
2021-05-12T11:09:35 < qyx> but but like 3y ago
2021-05-12T11:10:03 < jpa-> yeah, that PCN is from 2014
2021-05-12T11:10:09 < jpa-> news take some time to reach ##stm32
2021-05-12T11:11:09 < mouseghost> well, it is good info for me, i guess
2021-05-12T11:11:13 < mouseghost> unless thats a different 050
2021-05-12T11:11:21 < mouseghost> jpa-, i was in elementary school at that time! :D
2021-05-12T11:16:08 < mouseghost> how to perform 8-bit rw access in C?
2021-05-12T11:16:13 < Steffann> Oh that pcn now I maybe vaguely remember something about that
2021-05-12T11:16:21 < Steffann> But might be a false memory 
2021-05-12T11:21:09 < jpa-> mouseghost: *(volatile uint8_t*)(&my_register) = 1234;
2021-05-12T11:21:23 < jpa-> but most registers already have a 8-bit variant defined if the access size matters
2021-05-12T11:24:26 < mouseghost> >8-bit variant \\ ie in the definitions provided by the st?
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2021-05-12T11:36:13 < jpa-> yes
2021-05-12T11:37:42 < jpa-> but apparently for SPI it doesn't have
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2021-05-12T11:41:06 < mouseghost> mmmm great so im not crazy
2021-05-12T11:41:11 < mouseghost> turns out its just my dumb soldering
2021-05-12T11:41:22 < mouseghost> and leads lay on some puff of flux i think
2021-05-12T11:41:25 < mouseghost> ehhh
2021-05-12T11:41:49 < mouseghost> signal goes out of plastic, but it does not go on the pcb :^)
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2021-05-12T11:44:23 < mouseghost> :|||
2021-05-12T11:44:25 < mouseghost> gr8
2021-05-12T11:44:28 < mouseghost> gtg
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2021-05-12T13:11:53 < karlp> does bitmask really need to payu $10 per ic to do a thermocouple reading?!
2021-05-12T13:13:21 < qyx> I would use a greenpak
2021-05-12T13:14:37 < jpa-> buying SMD resistors in 10 pcs quantities gets pretty expensive :D
2021-05-12T13:15:22 < jpa-> ah, they are 0.1%
2021-05-12T13:15:39 < qyx> I saw some recently, the manufacturer was claiming they would manufacture any value you want by laser trimmin
2021-05-12T13:15:46 < qyx> moq was like 100 pcs only
2021-05-12T13:16:09 < qyx> then I saw the price 15e/1
2021-05-12T13:18:54 < karlp> somewhere not too long ago, I signed up for af ree board from ST, a g4 part.
2021-05-12T13:18:57 < karlp> well and good.
2021-05-12T13:19:13 < karlp> got a "your sample has shipped" email about 18 hours ago...
2021-05-12T13:19:15 < karlp> well and good...
2021-05-12T13:19:32 < karlp> I've now received _another_ "your order has shipped" email from st, about every 5 minutes since then...
2021-05-12T13:19:44 < jpa-> you must be anxiously waiting
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2021-05-12T13:52:13 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-05-12T13:52:16 < mouseghost> fixed, i think
2021-05-12T13:52:25 < mouseghost> smashed the pins with the tip
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2021-05-12T15:57:28 < mouseghost> 78ouhgirthiuysrtghgusirote
2021-05-12T15:57:31 < mouseghost> why doesnt this work
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2021-05-12T16:15:31 < Laurenceb_> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57087274
2021-05-12T16:15:35 < Laurenceb_> my orbital sides
2021-05-12T16:15:54 < Laurenceb_> > names Mr Johnson, of 10 Downing Street
2021-05-12T16:16:11 < Laurenceb_> ywlts bailiffs raid 10 downing street
2021-05-12T16:21:57 < Laurenceb_> would be funnier if it had happened to trump
2021-05-12T16:22:08 < Laurenceb_> >they take his TV out of the white house
2021-05-12T16:29:14 < mouseghost> a question
2021-05-12T16:29:19 < mouseghost> does SPI always provide a clock?
2021-05-12T16:29:30 < mouseghost> or is there some counter for bytes written?
2021-05-12T16:29:37 < mouseghost> or is it just a pump and dump scheme
2021-05-12T16:29:43 < mouseghost> because i think i see a clock all the time?
2021-05-12T16:29:46 < mouseghost> idk something is fucked
2021-05-12T16:35:09 < karlp> you should only see a clock if it's transferring something
2021-05-12T16:35:22 < karlp> if you're seeing a clcok all the time, are you in some dma continuous mode?
2021-05-12T16:35:45 < mouseghost> nope
2021-05-12T16:35:48 < mouseghost> no dma...
2021-05-12T16:36:07 < mouseghost> but now im thinking, that this might be due to me accessing the reg. in a wrong alignment uh
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2021-05-12T17:09:18 < mouseghost> aight
2021-05-12T17:09:21 < mouseghost> got that working
2021-05-12T17:09:23 < mouseghost> that's weird
2021-05-12T17:09:40 < mouseghost> i think it confused me because i am coming from 8bit avrs
2021-05-12T17:19:56 < karlp> good job qcad: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/JuRnv.png
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2021-05-12T17:47:30 < mouseghost> waht
2021-05-12T18:26:21 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-05-12T18:28:52 < jpa-> karlp: looks like "engineering format" is 7' 11.5"   and "architectural format" is 7'-9 1/8"
2021-05-12T18:29:03 < jpa-> not sure why *you'd* want either of them :)
2021-05-12T18:29:31 < karlp> I generally consider enginerring to be scientific in multiples of 3...
2021-05-12T18:29:46 < karlp> but yeah, when it gave me that I presumed it was some bullshit american tweak.
2021-05-12T18:29:47 < jpa-> nah, that would make too much sense
2021-05-12T18:30:05 < karlp> pointy corners everywhere today.
2021-05-12T18:30:10 < jpa-> https://github.com/qcad/qcad/blob/bc88164e7c0ec6394126c575f1fd25ec534178b3/src/core/RS.h#L362  looks like some of the formats are so weird they couldn't even come up with examples
2021-05-12T18:30:12 < karlp> but I've got a dimensioned dxf now...
2021-05-12T18:30:24 < jpa-> especially "WindowsDesktop".. no-one has dared to venture there
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2021-05-12T18:41:53 < karlp> jpa got any tips on using inkscape to put text labels on a case?
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2021-05-12T18:43:44 < jpa-> hmm.. draw them, print them, glue them? ;)
2021-05-12T18:44:01 < jpa-> if you send to some fab place, do "convert to path" first so that the fonts don't get messed up
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2021-05-12T19:09:14 < bitmask> damnit mouser, stop going out of stock of shit
2021-05-12T19:09:42 < bitmask> im not sure if its out because of my order or before my order
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2021-05-12T19:43:34 < zyp> how do you propose they stop going out of stock? by refusing to sell anything?
2021-05-12T19:48:05 < bitmask> way to read into something that doesn't need reading into :P They could order new stock further in advance though...
2021-05-12T19:52:14 < zyp> yeah, just like you could have ordered what you need before they ran out of stock
2021-05-12T19:53:46 < bitmask> haha ok man
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2021-05-12T20:01:47 < danst> would replacing this https://www.vishay.com/docs/69063/si7137dp.pdf with this https://www.vishay.com/docs/64722/si7615dn.pdf possibly work?
2021-05-12T20:02:20 < danst> asking because rare component in my country and I have a donor board with si7615dn
2021-05-12T20:02:47 < danst> it has slightly lower absolute maximum ratings
2021-05-12T20:02:58 < danst> but I guess it doesn't need to hit that ?
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2021-05-12T20:20:36 < karlp> depends what you're using it for?
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2021-05-12T20:30:46 < bitmask> anyway in altium to specify a rule using something like: InNet('name') but for no net?
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2021-05-12T20:36:27 < bitmask> i guess i can just assign a net to it
2021-05-12T20:50:26 < mouseghost> and so ive scratched the pads off :|
2021-05-12T20:50:36 < mouseghost> and now gotta redo the board
2021-05-12T20:50:37 < mouseghost> f m l 
2021-05-12T20:51:56 < bitmask> what were you trying to do
2021-05-12T20:59:50 < danst> karlp: computer made by apple company (air) stopped charging battery, but this p-channel mosfet is very rare where I'm at
2021-05-12T21:00:08 < danst> so I'm thinking of taking one for 2014 from 2012 donor 
2021-05-12T21:00:49 < danst> slightly different output voltage is the only difference I spotted in the schematic https://i.postimg.cc/d3TY2mhJ/Screenshot-2021-05-12-at-20-14-14.png
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2021-05-12T21:01:10 < danst> I assume it's charging battery as if it were 2S
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2021-05-12T22:21:06 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/PUSDTDj
2021-05-12T22:21:09 < bitmask> gettin there
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2021-05-12T23:42:49 < bitmask> i think i need some ferrule crimpers, hexagonal looks nicer than square, any difference in crimp quality?
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--- Day changed Thu May 13 2021
2021-05-13T00:00:35 < zyp> who cares how it looks when it's gonna be all mashed by the screw terminal anyway?
2021-05-13T00:06:50 < qyx> fuk mouser has nearly no STM32G4
2021-05-13T00:07:04 < qyx> except few in BGA100
2021-05-13T00:07:09 < qyx> hm, which is not that bad actually
2021-05-13T00:09:45 < bitmask> mouser is running out of everything, ive been waiting to see what is included in my shipment because either 1 item is backordered or 3 items are
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2021-05-13T00:17:02 < bitmask> square crimper it is
2021-05-13T00:34:05 < karlp> well, fucking st is still emaling me about my order beingshipped every 5 minutes..
2021-05-13T00:39:20 < Steffanx> Lolol
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2021-05-13T01:20:50 < zyp> karlp, hope you get as many boards as emails
2021-05-13T01:21:06 < zyp> then we can blame you for the chip shortage
2021-05-13T01:21:17 < zyp> no wonder they're running out when they have to send them all to you
2021-05-13T01:22:11 < mouseghost> everything is backordered tho .w.
2021-05-13T01:36:32 < bitmask> if you have the space do you go crazy with vias for transferring large currents to another layer
2021-05-13T01:37:35 < bitmask> 3 amps for one 0.4mm via seems crazy
2021-05-13T01:50:35 < bitmask> ehh i guess it makes sense, circumference is 1.26mm
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2021-05-13T02:04:11 < zyp> as in 0.4mm hole?
2021-05-13T02:05:42 < zyp> you can fit four 0.2mm vias in the area of one 0.4mm via, and they'll have double the total circumference
2021-05-13T02:06:16 < zyp> after all, the hole area in the middle of a via doesn't conduct power :)
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2021-05-13T02:41:43 < bitmask> I use 0.3mm in most places as its the smallest jlcpcb allows for 2 sided boards
2021-05-13T02:42:06 < bitmask> pretty sure ive used 0.2 and they allowed it in the past but 0.3 is fine
2021-05-13T02:43:28 < bitmask> it doesnt really matter though, i fit 17 vias in the space and i only needed 3 :P
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2021-05-13T03:11:29 < zyp> with the price difference between 2L and 4L at jlcpcb, why do you even bother with 2L? :p
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2021-05-13T03:17:55 < kakium69> ibm made 2nm process
2021-05-13T03:18:03 < kakium69> should I buy in now
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2021-05-13T04:49:49 < bitmask> why use 4L when you dont need it?
2021-05-13T04:50:30 < bitmask> you have just been looking for shit to bitch about all night
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2021-05-13T10:07:33 < qyx> UFBGA100 - 100-ball, 7 x 7 mm, 0.50 mm pitch,
2021-05-13T10:07:43 < qyx> I was curious why there are so many in stock
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2021-05-13T10:13:41 < jpa-> gah, 26°C hot outside, i'm melting
2021-05-13T10:13:48 < jpa-> maybe i should move to iceland
2021-05-13T10:34:52 < Steffanx> Even being an ice cold finnisher isn't enough anymore jpa- . Global warming must be bad in finland
2021-05-13T10:36:03 < jpa-> hot summers in finland arent a new thing though
2021-05-13T10:36:33 < Steffanx> I know it was like 30+ when I was there 
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2021-05-13T11:42:09 < Steffanx> Time to start a gofundme for an air-conditioner , jpa- ?
2021-05-13T11:44:31 < jpa-> inside it is fine, but sometimes i'd like to go outside also
2021-05-13T12:03:42 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-13T12:13:01 < jadew> elon musk shat on bitcoin
2021-05-13T12:13:39 < jadew> https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/12/22433153/tesla-suspend-bitcoin-vehicle-purchase-cryptocurrency-elon-musk
2021-05-13T12:14:07 < srk> lol :D
2021-05-13T12:14:23 < jadew> I wonder if he sold all the bitcoin they had before making the announcement
2021-05-13T12:15:31 < srk> someone should enlighten him about existing proof of stake blockchains
2021-05-13T12:16:45 < jadew> it only dropped by 8% so far
2021-05-13T12:17:29 < jpa-> according to article they bought $1.5e9 bitcoin and sold $0.1e9 so far
2021-05-13T12:17:31 < jadew> initially it dropped by 16%, but it recovered quickly
2021-05-13T12:17:49 < jpa-> so it doesn't appear to be a mere pump-and-dump scheme, i wonder if the larger idea is just tax evasion or something else
2021-05-13T12:17:57 < jadew> jpa-, we'll probably know how much they sold only in a couple of months
2021-05-13T12:18:04 < jadew> my guess is they sold everything already
2021-05-13T12:18:41 < srk> twaat says they are keeping it for now
2021-05-13T12:18:58 < jadew> is that what musk said?
2021-05-13T12:19:13 < srk> btc is serious, they have doge for pump&dumps xD
2021-05-13T12:19:37 < jpa-> i doubt it is just "we didn't know bitcoin uses so much energy" - probably some more elaborate plan behind this, like trying to force bitcoin to switch to proof-of-stake
2021-05-13T12:19:55 < srk> there's no such thing as bitcoin switching to PoS :)
2021-05-13T12:20:08 < srk> jadew: linked from that article https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203
2021-05-13T12:20:10 < jadew> looks like he's holding on to bitcoin
2021-05-13T12:20:12 < jadew> yeah
2021-05-13T12:20:19 < jadew> I didn't read the entire tweet
2021-05-13T12:20:39 < jpa-> well, of course it would be "new cryptocurrency using PoS that bootstraps over existing bitcoin blockchain and gains wide acceptance in place of bitcoin"
2021-05-13T12:20:56 < srk> even ethereum 2.0 is gonna have lots of trouble switching and there's already resistance from GPU miners :)
2021-05-13T12:21:22 < effractur> sure but that will always just result in a fork
2021-05-13T12:21:27 < effractur> and duplicating all the coins
2021-05-13T12:21:43 < srk> possibly, or death of the project :)
2021-05-13T12:22:03 < effractur> so like bitcoin has been forked multiple times already
2021-05-13T12:22:04 < srk> the space is very competitive
2021-05-13T12:22:07 < effractur> and most "forks" still exist
2021-05-13T12:22:07 < jpa-> yeah; which is why i'd expect musk may be trying to pull some tricks to get the change to happen
2021-05-13T12:22:40 < jpa-> like, fork bitcoin to PoS, start dumping on old blockchain to crash its value
2021-05-13T12:23:21 < jpa-> effractur: but does anyone actually care about the old forks?
2021-05-13T12:24:24 < jadew> but once you make a fork, the initial value is 0, no?
2021-05-13T12:24:28 < jadew> how does that gain value?
2021-05-13T12:24:31 < jadew> why fork?
2021-05-13T12:24:40 < jadew> why not just start from scratch?
2021-05-13T12:25:07 < jpa-> initial value is just whatever someone wants to buy/sell it for; if musk wants to put his wealth into it, he'll just buy the new fork and sell the old fork
2021-05-13T12:25:26 < effractur> jpa-: yea some are still qorth something
2021-05-13T12:26:09 < jpa-> and the reason for fork is that it makes it more desirable to existing bitcoin owners to switch over, vs. trying to get people to hop on yet another crypto; i think musk won't even want to fork it himself, rather just someone/community to do it
2021-05-13T12:26:21 < srk> BCH actually gained quite a lot last year.. ~6x
2021-05-13T12:28:12 < srk> the value is questionable since their forks don't add much, just tweaked parameters to allow higher thruput
2021-05-13T12:28:43 < srk> still a good old slow PoW
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2021-05-13T16:44:37 < Steffanx> jly:  !!!
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2021-05-13T17:49:33 < qyx> karlp: any info about qspi? is this all? https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/blob/504dc95d9ba1c2505a30d575371accfe49a69fb9/lib/stm32/common/quadspi_common_v1.c
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2021-05-13T18:54:10 < Mangy_Dog> in the nearish future im going to make a pc hardware monitor using my display chip stuff.... probebly on f103 again. I would have gone atmega but im thinking I might use the USB port on the f103, as Id have to use a serial interface first otherwise.....  But im wondering if I made a USb device.... What do you think the best way to send data to it to display? Ill be using the openhardwaremonitor.dll 
2021-05-13T18:54:10 < Mangy_Dog> to grab the pc hardware details. But shall I just go basic and make a simple serial emulator on the usb? or should I use some other simple protocol for sending data?
2021-05-13T18:55:00 < Mangy_Dog> should i create a custom usb device?
2021-05-13T18:55:14 < Mangy_Dog> and some how make my monitor program recognise it and talk through it
2021-05-13T18:55:20 < Mangy_Dog> or again go simple and just use serial
2021-05-13T19:00:03 < emeryth> use serial, save yourself lots of trouble
2021-05-13T19:02:26 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2021-05-13T19:02:51 < Mangy_Dog> though i wouldnt lie there would be something satifying about seeing a named device in the hardware monitor rather than just USB Serial
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2021-05-13T19:02:54 < Mangy_Dog> Com port 1
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2021-05-13T19:15:41 < machinehum> What's the chinese digikey?
2021-05-13T19:15:46 < machinehum> jmlcl or something?
2021-05-13T19:15:53 < machinehum> lscs?
2021-05-13T19:16:27 < englishman> lcsc
2021-05-13T19:16:31 < steve_> Mangy_Dog that sounds cool, how does that work, you write an adapter OHM to serial?
2021-05-13T19:16:37 < englishman> Low Cost Supply Chain
2021-05-13T19:16:58 < englishman> now that you know that, you won't forget again
2021-05-13T19:17:14 < steve_> is there a linux equivalent for that WMI interface, doesnt seem to have any linux docs
2021-05-13T19:17:20 < Mangy_Dog> i have no idea how ill handle a custom protocol... thats why i asked if anyone knows how best to handle the data sends
2021-05-13T19:17:30 < machinehum> Oh shit they have the parts I need
2021-05-13T19:17:39 < machinehum> Has anyone got shipping to Canada before?
2021-05-13T19:17:45 < Mangy_Dog> but the f103 can easily be setup as a emulated serial port
2021-05-13T19:17:56 < Mangy_Dog> and you just spand the data packets to that port from the program
2021-05-13T19:19:17 < Mangy_Dog> for now the hardware monitor display will have a fixed Ui design
2021-05-13T19:19:25 < Mangy_Dog> but i might in the future make somethign a bit more.... more
2021-05-13T19:19:29 < Mangy_Dog> like a custom designer for it
2021-05-13T19:20:15 < Mangy_Dog> so the data being sent, rather than just values of cpu temp and what not... it would include what widget goes where and display its value
2021-05-13T19:20:20 < Mangy_Dog> but thats a big way down the road
2021-05-13T19:20:42 < steve_> i would just pass-through the protocol and parse it all on the f103, to do as little as possilble on windoze
2021-05-13T19:21:14 < Mangy_Dog> and yeah i want the windows side to be really REALLY low resource 
2021-05-13T19:21:22 < Mangy_Dog> as in bearly anything if possible
2021-05-13T19:21:28 < englishman> machinehum sure
2021-05-13T19:21:35 < machinehum> lead?
2021-05-13T19:21:43 < englishman> is that a question
2021-05-13T19:21:54 < Mangy_Dog> but steve, pass through protocol?
2021-05-13T19:21:57 < Mangy_Dog> what do you mean
2021-05-13T19:22:22 < machinehum> What is the leadtime sir englishman 
2021-05-13T19:22:25 < machinehum> ?
2021-05-13T19:22:36 < steve_> pass thru ie. don't touch it just pass it
2021-05-13T19:23:12 < Mangy_Dog> can you give me a little exsample sorry
2021-05-13T19:23:18 < Mangy_Dog> im not sure i fully understand
2021-05-13T19:23:33 < englishman> they shipped my shit in <24hr for instock shit iirc
2021-05-13T19:23:54 < machinehum> How long till your door?
2021-05-13T19:24:30 < machinehum> Basically I'm just wondering if they use Chinese postal service then CP > 20 days shipping
2021-05-13T19:24:45 < machinehum> Or if they will charge a reasonable rate FedEx/DHL
2021-05-13T19:28:33 < steve_> Mangy_Dog an IP router or ethernet switch does pass thru of the payloads, ie. does not look inside.  the destination will then parse ie. look at the contents
2021-05-13T19:28:52 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2021-05-13T19:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> well i dont think open hardware monitor is so simple as that
2021-05-13T19:29:13 < Mangy_Dog> it liturally just exposes the data
2021-05-13T19:29:20 < Mangy_Dog> i then have to read it and pass it some how
2021-05-13T19:29:35 < steve_> then you can serialize the objects
2021-05-13T19:29:42 < Mangy_Dog> so the windows side will have to do some basic stuff
2021-05-13T19:30:30 < Mangy_Dog> im still pretty early stage on the project its going to be a few months away yet
2021-05-13T19:30:34 < Mangy_Dog> just early concept thinking 
2021-05-13T19:30:46 < Mangy_Dog> ive not even got the new computer i want to build it for yet
2021-05-13T19:32:19 < Mangy_Dog> id probebly just do 1 second updates and have lists of data packets to send... mainly something like a what object header (cpu temp) followed by value followed by checksum
2021-05-13T19:32:28 < Mangy_Dog> being framed
2021-05-13T19:32:44 < Mangy_Dog> ill have some basic ack nak error correcting added too
2021-05-13T19:32:49 < Mangy_Dog> like im doign with the tricorder project
2021-05-13T19:32:56 < Mangy_Dog> which ill be resuming programming very soon
2021-05-13T19:33:25 < Mangy_Dog> the actual chassis are painted now and pretty much finished being built, bar a couple of small glue on details which ill leave till last in case i damage the paint in the mean time
2021-05-13T19:33:45 < Mangy_Dog> btw selling these tricorders are whats paying for the new computer :p
2021-05-13T19:34:16 < steve_> link?
2021-05-13T19:34:48 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/page-3
2021-05-13T19:36:37 < englishman> machinehum: if you get cheap canuck brokebitch shipping then it can take like 3 months
2021-05-13T19:36:52 < englishman> pay the $20 for fedex you cheap beaver hat wearing colonist
2021-05-13T19:37:24 < machinehum> kek
2021-05-13T19:37:33 < machinehum> Yeah I'll pay the damn 20$
2021-05-13T19:38:13 < machinehum> Fuck this site seems almost legit
2021-05-13T19:38:38 < steve_> very cool Mangy_Dog
2021-05-13T19:39:11 < machinehum> If I get parts do they just showup in a ziplock bag padded with Chinese newspapers or what?
2021-05-13T19:39:48 < machinehum> lol who the fuck is Darfon Elec and will their caps even work
2021-05-13T19:41:58 < Mangy_Dog> thanks
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2021-05-13T20:08:12 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/xmMvHiZ
2021-05-13T20:08:14 < bitmask> think I got the layouts as small as im gonna get them
2021-05-13T20:09:43 < jpa-> why do you need to get them small? by the amount of pumps etc. it seems your device is not particularly small
2021-05-13T20:12:16 < bitmask> only the bottom one needs to be smallish, i'm not going out of my way to really make it small just not leaving big spaces
2021-05-13T20:13:01 < bitmask> its more of a personal contest to try to get it compact
2021-05-13T20:13:21 < bitmask> i havent done many boards so its good practice for when size matters
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2021-05-13T20:25:25 < bitmask> cmon mouser, ship my order
2021-05-13T20:38:07 < Steffanx> Yes boss
2021-05-13T20:38:12 < Steffanx> Working on it
2021-05-13T20:38:37 < Steffanx> But its Jesus went to heaven day today, bitmask. We don't work on that day
2021-05-13T20:39:50 < bitmask> is that true?
2021-05-13T20:40:38 < jpa-> of course it is true
2021-05-13T20:41:14 < jpa-> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Obereschach_Pfarrkirche_Fresko_Fugel_Christi_Himmelfahrt_crop.jpg/800px-Obereschach_Pfarrkirche_Fresko_Fugel_Christi_Himmelfahrt_crop.jpg  there he goes
2021-05-13T20:42:01 < bitmask> no i believe that its a holiday haha but are businesses actually closed today
2021-05-13T20:43:05 < jpa-> but do you believe he went to heaven?
2021-05-13T20:43:39 < bitmask> of course not
2021-05-13T20:43:50 < jpa-> such heathen
2021-05-13T20:43:53 < jpa-> your order will never ship
2021-05-13T20:43:57 < bitmask> hah
2021-05-13T20:44:11 < bitmask> i dont believe in fairy tales 
2021-05-13T20:51:00 < bitmask> im all for religion as long as you are doing it for the right reasons. for a sense of community and support. help those in need and receive help when needed. unfortunately its rarely/never just that.
2021-05-13T20:52:02 < Steffanx> Here many business are closed, bitmask 
2021-05-13T20:52:08 < Steffanx> Businesses 
2021-05-13T20:52:12 < bitmask> interesting
2021-05-13T20:52:23 < Steffanx> Since its a national holiday 
2021-05-13T20:53:21 < Steffanx> Your sins are forgiven, bitmask 
2021-05-13T20:54:03 < bitmask> thank you lord steffan
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2021-05-13T22:19:51 < mawk> go away bitmask 
2021-05-13T22:19:53 < mawk> you're not for religion
2021-05-13T22:20:05 < mawk> you're for a fairytale that does not exist on earth
2021-05-13T22:20:07 < bitmask> :(
2021-05-13T22:20:39 < mawk> you can have cool communities, but they're invariably ruined as soon as you bring in the magic man in the sky
2021-05-13T22:21:30 < bitmask> agreed
2021-05-13T22:21:44 < mawk> and you get people like jpa- , wishing other people's orders to never ship
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2021-05-13T22:58:50 < Steffanx> mawk doenst like free days off
2021-05-13T22:58:58 < Steffanx> Go back to work mawk
2021-05-13T23:00:34 < bitmask> say you have a decoupling cap on the top layer which is a positive voltage plane. should you draw traces for the cap's + side  to the IC? Or just have it sitting next to it and directly connected to the plane
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--- Day changed Fri May 14 2021
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2021-05-14T00:27:03 < karlp> qyx: probably, most of the advanced features stuff is pretty slim.
2021-05-14T00:29:57 < karlp> looks like you get lots of defines, no helper functions...
2021-05-14T00:32:22 < karlp> jpa-: what I've read is that tesla's bitcoin is just an accounting issue.  they couldn't use sales of bitcoin as "profit" even though they'd accepted bitcoin to buy cars, it was "intangible assets" so it was just causing them balance sheet problems.
2021-05-14T00:34:40 < karlp> nice ascension pic jpa :)
2021-05-14T00:35:16 < karlp> it's a holiday here too, was a nice day out with the girls.
2021-05-14T00:35:44 < karlp> would be totally in favour of having a different day off, actully secular, at a more useful time of the year though.
2021-05-14T00:35:52 < karlp> we get whitsunday/pentecost as a holiday too, yay
2021-05-14T00:37:08 < karlp> well, I'm still getting ST mails every 5 minutes....
2021-05-14T00:37:13 < karlp> I wonder how long this will go on for...
2021-05-14T00:37:15 < qyx> :D
2021-05-14T00:38:12 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/GapFm.png
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2021-05-14T01:08:28 < qyx> slowly taming the qspi
2021-05-14T01:08:48 < bitmask> altium, when you hit align bottom, is there anyway to choose which bottom is aligned to?
2021-05-14T01:08:59 < bitmask> you can choose for some alignment commands and not others
2021-05-14T01:16:18 < machinehum> Chinese digikey is cheap AF
2021-05-14T01:17:49 < qyx> do you mean lcsc?
2021-05-14T01:18:01 < qyx> "Some Flash memories (e.g. Winbound) might provide a mode where an"..
2021-05-14T01:19:21 < machinehum> Yeah
2021-05-14T01:21:51 < zyp> qyx, same
2021-05-14T01:22:04 < zyp> I've been spending the evening fixing litespi
2021-05-14T01:23:53 < qyx> machinehum: lcsc->eu is not that cheap
2021-05-14T01:24:12 < qyx> mouser is usually the bestest with free shipping for 50€+
2021-05-14T01:24:46 < qyx> with lcsc you have to do customs too which adds another 24€
2021-05-14T01:28:50 < machinehum> oh
2021-05-14T01:28:54 < machinehum> well
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2021-05-14T02:00:43 < jly> it's a sweet little gun
2021-05-14T02:02:22 < Steffanx> Thanks
2021-05-14T02:03:48 < jly> hold 7 rounds in the klipp plus one in the chamber
2021-05-14T02:03:56 < jly> that's if you're dumb enough to put a round in the chamber
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2021-05-14T02:24:37 < jly> Steffanx: fix it for me
2021-05-14T02:24:58 < Steffanx> Done. Jly
2021-05-14T02:25:11 < jly> thankyou mate
2021-05-14T02:25:23 < jly> it's much better now
2021-05-14T02:28:16 < jadew> https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/371421
2021-05-14T02:28:54 < jadew> "Last year, a motorcycle supply company called Klim introduced a smart airbag vest (airbag), whose function is to protect the user against falls and accidents. However, it has a peculiarity: if you do not pay a membership, the device will not inflate."
2021-05-14T02:29:10 < jly> excellent tech
2021-05-14T02:29:34 < jly> reminds me of a long term dog designed by myself years ago
2021-05-14T02:30:00 < jly> basically if the timer isn't reset (client pay the bill) rented equipment may stop working soon...
2021-05-14T02:31:14 < jadew> they have that leased cars
2021-05-14T02:31:19 < jadew> *on
2021-05-14T02:31:38 < jly> indeed
2021-05-14T02:31:46 < jly> this was a simple piece of fucking shit
2021-05-14T02:31:54 < jly> but still fun
2021-05-14T02:32:29 < jadew> I wonder what happens if you don't stop the car
2021-05-14T02:32:46 < jadew> you just refuel it while on
2021-05-14T02:33:09 < jly> then it detonates an explosive charge
2021-05-14T02:33:18 < jly> and takes the gas station out with it too
2021-05-14T02:33:26 < jly> clearly.
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2021-05-14T02:39:45 < jadew> lol, bitcoiners hope elon's account got hacked
2021-05-14T02:39:58 < jly> i hope the whole thing crashes into the ground
2021-05-14T02:40:32 < jadew> me too, waste of resources
2021-05-14T02:40:49 < jadew> if it crashes, I can finally upgrade my graphics card
2021-05-14T02:41:11 < jly> true lol
2021-05-14T02:41:21 < jly> gtx1060 for life
2021-05-14T02:53:28 < kakium69> how to prepaire for hyperinflation
2021-05-14T02:53:31 < kakium69> ?
2021-05-14T02:53:34 < kakium69> as a poor person
2021-05-14T02:53:54 < jadew> as a poor person, you don't have to :)
2021-05-14T02:54:15 < jadew> the benefits of being poor - no money to lose
2021-05-14T02:54:32 < kakium69> poor != broke
2021-05-14T02:54:53 < jadew> I don't know, invest in a foreign market maybe?
2021-05-14T02:55:17 < jadew> the problem is you don't know what's around the corner - inflation or a crash
2021-05-14T02:55:32 < jadew> so you might prepare for inflation and get a crash
2021-05-14T02:56:24 < kakium69> money printers went brrr
2021-05-14T02:56:37 < jadew> they did
2021-05-14T02:57:00 < jadew> the problem is there's nothing cheap to invest in
2021-05-14T02:57:08 < jadew> you're already late
2021-05-14T02:57:26 < kakium69> true
2021-05-14T02:58:07 < jadew> I really don't know where it's going to go and I'm not sure if I should hold on to my money or spend it on stuff
2021-05-14T02:58:41 < kakium69> I think I'll buy a motorcycle
2021-05-14T02:58:47 < kakium69> because want
2021-05-14T02:59:06 < jadew> that's a good reason, but I thought you want to save your savings, not piss them away
2021-05-14T02:59:20 < kakium69> me want
2021-05-14T02:59:40 < jadew> at least get one with good resale value
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2021-05-14T03:06:59 < kakium69> any good indicator to use to follow progress of inflation?
2021-05-14T03:07:13 < kakium69> for my ammusement
2021-05-14T03:07:28 < Streaker> Consumer price index?
2021-05-14T03:08:37 < kakium69> ofc
2021-05-14T03:10:49 < kakium69> but there is no like real time view?
2021-05-14T03:11:08 < kakium69> just some annual thing they do or so?
2021-05-14T03:11:13 < jadew> if you find one, let me know
2021-05-14T03:11:33 < Streaker> the commodities market
2021-05-14T03:11:36 < jadew> there's the basket of stuff thing
2021-05-14T03:11:50 < jadew> so you have to take into account how much people are making too
2021-05-14T03:12:24 < jadew> if they make 0 and a slice of bread costs the same, then inflation has gone up by infinity
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2021-05-14T03:13:54 < Streaker> https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/july-1994/commodity-price-indexes-can-they-predict-inflation
2021-05-14T03:14:14 < jadew> I guess you could compute it yourself, just get data on how much the average american is left with after taxes and all that
2021-05-14T03:14:39 < jadew> and then compute how many baskets of milk, bread, etc he can buy
2021-05-14T03:15:19 < jadew> you'll probably find that it's similar with the numbers in "poorer" countries
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2021-05-14T03:21:54 < bitmask> weeeeee https://imgur.com/a/C6TyRBu
2021-05-14T03:22:33 < jadew> what's that for?
2021-05-14T03:25:10 < bitmask> cold filtered water dispenser
2021-05-14T03:26:28 < kakium69> filtered?
2021-05-14T03:27:13 < bitmask> part of a reverse osmosis 5 stage filter setup
2021-05-14T03:27:15 < jadew> through his pants
2021-05-14T03:27:23 < jadew> lol, I was right
2021-05-14T03:29:16 < jadew> are you preparing for closing the door on the bunker?
2021-05-14T03:29:39 < bitmask> yea its so crazy to want clean water
2021-05-14T03:29:57 < jadew> minerals are good
2021-05-14T03:30:19 < jadew> if you want safe water you boil it
2021-05-14T03:30:24 < bitmask> you get all the minerals you need from food, you can add minerals back in if you want, its not gonna change the fact that the tap here tastes like shit
2021-05-14T03:30:36 < jadew> ah
2021-05-14T03:30:36 < bitmask> who said anything about safe water?
2021-05-14T03:30:56 < jadew> well, that's the only thing I would worry about with water
2021-05-14T03:31:16 < jadew> if there's nothing growing in it, then it's probably ok to drink
2021-05-14T03:31:36 < bitmask> its definitely fine to drink, but it smells and tastes like chlorine
2021-05-14T03:32:18 < jadew> you can leave it for a little and it clears out
2021-05-14T03:32:22 < bitmask> i dont enjoy drinking it, so i filter it and now its just like bottled water
2021-05-14T03:32:33 < bitmask> jesus leave me be
2021-05-14T03:32:45 < bitmask> i like my setup its fine
2021-05-14T03:32:53 < jadew> just saying, life could be simpler :)
2021-05-14T03:32:59 < kakium69> chlorine doesn't belong to water
2021-05-14T03:33:17 < kakium69> local city has chlorine water
2021-05-14T03:33:26 < jadew> kakium69, there's probably lots of crap in our tap water that doesn't belong there
2021-05-14T03:33:34 < bitmask> yea cause sitting there letting chlorine evaporate or whatever is a great solution
2021-05-14T03:33:44 < bitmask> im sure theres other shit in it too
2021-05-14T03:34:13 < bitmask> and yet you are fighting me about wanting to filter it, what is with you guys and just wanting to argue
2021-05-14T03:34:43 < jadew> my dad filters his water too, and wanted me to do that as well
2021-05-14T03:34:47 < jadew> which is why I resist the idea
2021-05-14T03:34:58 < jadew> my solution was simple: I just drink bottled water
2021-05-14T03:35:01 < bitmask> because you have to be different just to be different
2021-05-14T03:35:26 < jadew> it's not that, I don't know what effect filtering has on the water
2021-05-14T03:35:28 < kakium69> I drink from quartz ground spring
2021-05-14T03:35:32 < bitmask> bottled water is expensive and then you have all the leftover bottles
2021-05-14T03:35:33 < jadew> how do I know I'm not introducing worse shit in it?
2021-05-14T03:35:56 < bitmask> thats pretty nuts
2021-05-14T03:36:11 < jadew> I'm not a chemist, so I can't tell if filtering it makes it better or worse
2021-05-14T03:37:07 < bitmask> use a tds meter, yes i know high tds isnt necessarily bad but if it goes down then you are reducing whats in there and theres a good chance you arent adding much if anything, my tds reading went from 300 to 14
2021-05-14T03:38:50 < kakium69> I installed a filter screen to water line from the well
2021-05-14T03:39:02 < bitmask> the smell and taste is just like bottled water which is mostly RO water anyway
2021-05-14T03:39:22 < jadew> what's RO water?
2021-05-14T03:39:29 < bitmask> reverse osmosis
2021-05-14T03:40:09 < jadew> you can buy a water in here that has the original dirt in the bottle
2021-05-14T03:40:16 < bitmask> its a filter with holes so small only water can pass through, its not perfect so thats why I'm still getting a reading of 14 but its damn good
2021-05-14T03:40:18 < jadew> people seem to love it
2021-05-14T03:40:47 < kakium69> guess what there is in the filter screen from jadew?
2021-05-14T03:41:06 < bitmask> i wouldnt even mind dirt as much as i mind the chlorine and other chemicals they add or what happens to leech in there
2021-05-14T03:41:29 < jadew> kakium69?
2021-05-14T03:41:43 < kakium69> frogs
2021-05-14T03:41:45 < bitmask> lead, fluoride, whatever
2021-05-14T03:42:04 < kakium69> some black small catepillars also
2021-05-14T03:42:11 < kakium69> that live in water
2021-05-14T03:42:14 < kakium69> and dirt
2021-05-14T03:42:35 < kakium69> but man that water tastes fresh anyway
2021-05-14T03:42:55 < jadew> that's probably the taste of microorganisms
2021-05-14T03:43:00 < jadew> but yeah, I like it too
2021-05-14T03:43:17 < bitmask> ive never had well water
2021-05-14T03:43:32 < jadew> what about river water?
2021-05-14T03:43:37 < bitmask> nope
2021-05-14T03:44:22 < kakium69> there is some lake in next town that has so pure water that it's basically well water
2021-05-14T03:44:23 < bitmask> wouldnt trust myself to know whats safe to drink
2021-05-14T03:44:40 < jadew> I used to drink from puddles when I was little
2021-05-14T03:44:53 < kakium69> :o
2021-05-14T03:45:18 < jadew> and would make sure none of my other friends doing the same wouldn't disturb the dirt when drinking
2021-05-14T03:45:18 < bitmask> thats not great but at least those puddles dont last long so it hasnt been sitting around for long enough to get nasty
2021-05-14T03:45:40 < kakium69> I wouldn't drink from any free water in urban areas
2021-05-14T03:45:58 < bitmask> yea def not
2021-05-14T03:46:08 < kakium69> polutants
2021-05-14T03:46:13 < jadew> yeah, these were not in the city
2021-05-14T03:47:10 < kakium69> I need to one up you jadew
2021-05-14T03:47:19 < kakium69> I ate living snail
2021-05-14T03:47:27 < jadew> lol, that's gross
2021-05-14T03:47:27 < kakium69> didn't get brain worm
2021-05-14T03:47:38 < bitmask> oh you rreminded me i have leftover sushi
2021-05-14T03:48:09 < kakium69> snail or parasite part?
2021-05-14T03:48:37 < jadew> kakium69, how come you ate the snail?
2021-05-14T03:48:51 < jadew> was it a challenge?
2021-05-14T03:49:02 < kakium69> primitive behaviour
2021-05-14T03:49:17 < kakium69> kids have those things
2021-05-14T03:49:17 < jadew> when you were a kid?
2021-05-14T03:49:29 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-14T03:50:25 < jadew> I ate caterpillars once (according to my parents)
2021-05-14T03:50:41 < jadew> and I heard about a kid who ate frogs
2021-05-14T03:50:58 < kakium69> I was pretty old already in school I think
2021-05-14T03:51:19 < bitmask> a friend of mine who lived across the street when i was young used to collect caterpillars and stuff his pockets with them, then his mom would do the laundry...
2021-05-14T03:51:20 < jadew> wow, so you must remember the incident
2021-05-14T03:51:25 < jadew> what did they taste like?
2021-05-14T03:51:47 < kakium69> nothing but mouthful of slime
2021-05-14T03:54:14 < kakium69> we collected catepillars in school.. lower school or whatever it's called in english
2021-05-14T03:54:20 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deilephila_elpenor
2021-05-14T03:55:09 < jadew> we collected various insects
2021-05-14T03:55:19 < jadew> first we had a project where we collected plants, then insects
2021-05-14T03:55:30 < kakium69> that was interesting
2021-05-14T03:55:52 < kakium69> made a little notebook with dried specimen between the pages?
2021-05-14T03:55:53 < jadew> yeah, I loved biology
2021-05-14T03:56:00 < jadew> yep
2021-05-14T03:56:01 < bitmask> the ones all over my state are gypsy moth caterpillars
2021-05-14T03:57:29 < bitmask> yes, mouser shipped my package
2021-05-14T03:57:44 < kakium69> we went to bush at break or after school to find the biggest catepillars.. it was not a school project
2021-05-14T03:58:04 < jly> blast15
2021-05-14T03:58:32 < kakium69> also we "men" digged a small "pond" to a ditch and grew fish in it
2021-05-14T03:59:00 < bitmask> oh nice, i thought some items were gonna be backordered, only the one I knew for sure i have to wait on, everything else was available, that makes life easier
2021-05-14T03:59:26 < bitmask> just gotta hope its back in stock in 2 weeks when it says it will be
2021-05-14T03:59:57 < jadew> I have several packages stuck in customs :/
2021-05-14T04:00:07 < bitmask> ali?
2021-05-14T04:00:14 < kakium69> unstuck them
2021-05-14T04:00:27 < jadew> not all
2021-05-14T04:00:50 < bitmask> my custom buttons just passed customs, they will be here saturday
2021-05-14T04:00:55 < jadew> one of them is an ebay purchase that came via DHL
2021-05-14T04:01:02 < jadew> and it's been there for two weeks almost
2021-05-14T04:01:58 < jadew> the radiation detector comes from within the EU and it still stayed a couple of days in the international exchange offirce
2021-05-14T04:02:06 < jadew> not sure what is going on
2021-05-14T04:02:08 < kakium69> aah
2021-05-14T04:02:39 < kakium69> they think it's a radiation source
2021-05-14T04:02:55 < kakium69> not likelly
2021-05-14T04:02:59 < jadew> I don't think they care
2021-05-14T04:03:24 < kakium69> they investigate if it requires permit
2021-05-14T04:04:12 < jadew> they have mountains of packages there (literally - I've been there), they don't have time to focus on details like these
2021-05-14T04:04:55 < jadew> also, because it's from within the EU, it means they don't have to pass it through customs, so all they have to do is pick it up and put it in a cart
2021-05-14T04:05:03 < kakium69> dude that process the packages left for vacation
2021-05-14T04:05:18 < jadew> that's possible
2021-05-14T04:05:36 < jadew> had that happen once with a UPS delivery
2021-05-14T04:05:56 < kakium69> 10 other guys don't know what the packages are about
2021-05-14T04:05:57 < jadew> the person handling my package went on a vacation
2021-05-14T04:08:33 < kakium69> weird
2021-05-14T04:09:23 < kakium69> he had made himself inreplacable
2021-05-14T04:10:01 < jadew> the person I talked to was like "well, X is handling this package, oh wait... he's on vacation"
2021-05-14T04:10:49 < jadew> "I'll assign it to another colleague"
2021-05-14T04:10:58 < jadew> gee, thanks for letting me wait 3 weeks
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2021-05-14T04:40:23 < jadew> google keeps trying to push music videos without the videos
2021-05-14T04:41:13 < jadew> they think I'm watching for the music
2021-05-14T05:07:34 < jly> nice
2021-05-14T05:07:38 < jly> do they have THE SERVICE
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2021-05-14T06:41:59 < aandrew> man
2021-05-14T06:42:08 < aandrew> been on set for a tv show last 4 days
2021-05-14T06:42:20 < aandrew> it's fucking exhausting being a set dad
2021-05-14T06:42:35 < aandrew> I do nothing but stand around watching 100 people do shit
2021-05-14T06:44:42 < aandrew> food's decent though
2021-05-14T06:45:00 < aandrew> and they gave me the app and password to watch the same camera feeds as teh directors
2021-05-14T07:08:51 < R2COM> ok guys im thinking of buying Ford Mustang Mach E
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2021-05-14T08:59:26 < jly> YUCK
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2021-05-14T12:42:13 < englishman> my pal got a mach E
2021-05-14T12:42:51 < englishman> it's more expensive than a tesla, has less range, charges slower, and doesnt have autopilot
2021-05-14T12:43:14 < englishman> but the frunk has a drain in it, so you can fill it with ice and put your beer in it
2021-05-14T12:47:13 < Steffanx> Typical yank car
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2021-05-14T12:49:59 < karlp> frunk? oh. trunk...
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2021-05-14T12:50:47 < karlp> aandrew: your tech being used in props then? or is this one of your spawn's acting careers you mentioned looking into?
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2021-05-14T14:10:27 < ventyl> frunk := front trunk. stuff which almost caused NHTSA to withdraw new corvette
2021-05-14T14:12:20 < Laurenceb> anyone here used Berkeley DB ?
2021-05-14T14:15:07 < karlp> not since the 90s
2021-05-14T14:15:10 < karlp> why are you ?
2021-05-14T14:15:42 < jpa-> i looked into it once but decided sqlite was nicer to work with because it had more structure to data
2021-05-14T14:17:18 < jpa-> hmm actually it must have been something else, considering berkeley db's AGPL license
2021-05-14T14:17:33 < jpa-> or maybe it was berkeley db 1.x
2021-05-14T14:20:57 < karlp> yeah, I can't think of any reason to use it over sqlite these days
2021-05-14T14:22:45 < PaulFertser> There's also libmbdx
2021-05-14T14:22:53 < PaulFertser> dbx
2021-05-14T14:29:13 < ventyl> Laurenceb: I did
2021-05-14T14:29:43 < Laurenceb> this is for a rpi datalogger
2021-05-14T14:29:53 < ventyl> nowaydays it has stl wrapper, so it can mask nicely as std::map and/or std::hashtable
2021-05-14T14:29:55 < Laurenceb> it needs to grab data and sync with a server
2021-05-14T14:30:08 < Laurenceb> but it also needs to be able to handle power supply failure
2021-05-14T14:31:02 < Laurenceb> battle of Berkeley DB is free and seems to have those features
2021-05-14T14:31:34 < ventyl> bdb can have logging turned on, but this relies on you using transactions
2021-05-14T14:31:51 < ventyl> then it will handle power outage
2021-05-14T14:33:59 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-05-14T14:34:15 < Laurenceb> I though it could handle power outage by default
2021-05-14T14:34:28 < Laurenceb> maybe I should just roll my own system using tcp sockets
2021-05-14T14:34:52 < ventyl> well, without transactions, state of the database is not guaranteed
2021-05-14T14:34:53 < Laurenceb> I dont need an actual database on the datalogger, just the equivalent of a tape loop
2021-05-14T14:34:58 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-05-14T14:35:13 < ventyl> with transactions, BDB knows what has already been written into pages and the rest will be restored from log
2021-05-14T14:35:28 < Laurenceb> ok, but the log also has to be written?
2021-05-14T14:35:56 < ventyl> yes, but you only need to keep the log since last sync
2021-05-14T14:36:03 < ventyl> or how it is called in BDB terminology
2021-05-14T14:36:19 < ventyl> after sync, you can erase all logs
2021-05-14T14:36:42 < jpa-> last time i did something similar, the firmware simply had a ring buffer of data with a running uint64_t count of bytes ever written; the sync process was entirely server-driven, it asks "how much have you written so far?" and "please send me bytes 12345 to 78901"
2021-05-14T14:36:55 < jpa-> if the firmware ring buffer filled up, too bad, the data in between was lost
2021-05-14T14:37:09 < ventyl> alternatively, you can run BDB in-memory on device and create persistent replica somewhere behind network
2021-05-14T14:37:16 < jpa-> and the firmware ring buffer was never emptied until it rolled around, so when the server failed one would still get the latest data
2021-05-14T14:38:30 < Laurenceb> jpa-: yeah thats what I was thinking of doing
2021-05-14T14:38:58 < Laurenceb> bdb looks nice, but it might turn out to be quite complex to use it to impliment what is basically a tape loop
2021-05-14T14:39:20 < Laurenceb> I was thinking variable length data packets:
2021-05-14T14:39:36 < jpa-> and quite useless if you never use lookup() or update()
2021-05-14T14:39:50 < Laurenceb> 32bit sequence number, 32bit unix timestamp, 16bit packet length
2021-05-14T14:39:55 < Laurenceb> in their headers
2021-05-14T14:40:13 < jpa-> ready to rock in 2038
2021-05-14T14:40:24 < Laurenceb> then the logger can use binary search to find end of ring buffer
2021-05-14T14:40:54 < jpa-> how do you binary search through a buffer full of variable-length messages? you don't know where the headers are
2021-05-14T14:41:05 < Laurenceb> the server can send requests over tcp socket to find current sequence number and send requests for packets it doesnt have in its log
2021-05-14T14:41:24 < Laurenceb> jpa-: use byte stuffing so its easy to find packets
2021-05-14T14:41:47 < jpa-> so what memory would you be storing that on?
2021-05-14T14:41:58 < Laurenceb> also packet length in the header makes it very fast to jump through packets in cases where the server needs packets n-100 to n-80 (e.g.)
2021-05-14T14:42:08 < Laurenceb> eMMC on raspberry pi compute module
2021-05-14T14:42:26 < Laurenceb> just using raw access to a dedicated partition
2021-05-14T14:43:07 < ventyl> well, if you are going to implement this, then bdb may be less of a burden actually
2021-05-14T14:43:20 < Laurenceb> hmm are you sure?
2021-05-14T14:43:50 < Laurenceb> if it can sync records like that without complex customisation I guess
2021-05-14T14:44:13 < ventyl> enabling transactions is just a few lines added into initialization block and 2 additional calls per transaction
2021-05-14T14:44:40 < ventyl> and if you sync your logs often, then you don't need to keep a shitload of them
2021-05-14T14:44:45 < jpa-> use mqtt with qos & persistence, it is the iot 4.0 way
2021-05-14T14:44:59 < Laurenceb> lol jpa-
2021-05-14T14:45:23 < Laurenceb> ventyl: but I'd need to use a filesystem for that right?
2021-05-14T14:45:33 < ventyl> nope
2021-05-14T14:45:37  * Laurenceb was wondering if the block device could be used as the database "file"
2021-05-14T14:45:39 < ventyl> BDB can run on top of raw device
2021-05-14T14:45:49 < Laurenceb> oh nice
2021-05-14T14:45:57 < ventyl> i am not quite sure about logs thoug
2021-05-14T14:45:59 < Laurenceb> maybe I should use it then :P
2021-05-14T14:46:23 < ventyl> actually, my diploma thesis was implemented on top of BDB
2021-05-14T14:46:33 < Laurenceb> ok cool
2021-05-14T14:47:26 < Laurenceb> I came up with BDB when searching for instances of the packet format I described, aiui  BDB is very similar internally
2021-05-14T14:48:14 < ventyl> i know that page format is described in BDB docs, but I don't remember the details anymore
2021-05-14T14:49:06 < qyx> wait what, are we back in 2000
2021-05-14T14:49:11 < ventyl> and I remember that BDB has some special "logging" mode, or something similar, where either primary key is automatically assigned as sequential number, or something similar
2021-05-14T14:49:40 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-05-14T14:55:06 < ventyl> i would be PHP developer for the rest of my life, if not BDB
2021-05-14T15:01:47 < Steffanx> But you regret it still.
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2021-05-14T15:07:39 < ventyl> web development is a swamp
2021-05-14T15:07:45 < ventyl> probably more than anything else
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2021-05-14T15:17:01 < karlp> sok, just throw more kubernetes at it, everything will be better....
2021-05-14T15:17:59 < ventyl> i left before the golden age came. no serverless, no nosql and barely any elasticsearch and stuff
2021-05-14T15:18:16 < ventyl> also barely any virtual servers
2021-05-14T15:18:27 < ventyl> at least at our scale of bussiness
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2021-05-14T16:11:21 < aandrew> karlp: yeah none of my tech, son does acting and this time I took him onset
2021-05-14T16:11:23 < aandrew> on set
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2021-05-14T16:21:13 < karlp> so, I made guides in inkscape, but now they can't be used to snap text to them?!
2021-05-14T16:22:24 < Ultrasauce> aandrew: what app?
2021-05-14T16:22:58 < karlp> I feel like I might have been better off with the paths I had before the guides...
2021-05-14T16:23:02  * karlp tries that again...
2021-05-14T16:23:19 < aandrew> app?
2021-05-14T16:23:35 < Ultrasauce> you mentioned a video thing
2021-05-14T16:23:48 < aandrew> oh
2021-05-14T16:23:49 < aandrew> um
2021-05-14T16:23:51 < aandrew> qsomething
2021-05-14T16:23:58 < aandrew> qtake monitor
2021-05-14T16:24:08 < Ultrasauce> ah yes
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2021-05-14T16:48:28 < jpa-> karlp: have you found the toolbar where you can select what stuff snaps to?
2021-05-14T16:52:34 < karlp> yeah, I can drag rectangles to the guide, but not the text :|
2021-05-14T16:53:21 < karlp> when Imake a new text, I get a "handle to guide" which will snap it, but that sets the lower left corner of the text
2021-05-14T16:53:29 < karlp> I can't get centered text over the guide
2021-05-14T16:53:43 < karlp> I've tried making just lines, and using normal align/distribute, but it's tedious
2021-05-14T16:54:36 < karlp> rectangle.. path effects->grid was nice visually, and nice for making guides, but the guides aren't working, and the grid rectangles can't have the lines selected manually either, so can't align to them. and "path-> breakapart" does... nothing.
2021-05-14T16:59:29 < jpa-> maybe you want to enable "snap bounding box centers"
2021-05-14T16:59:42 < jpa-> or "snap text baselines and anchors"
2021-05-14T17:00:00 < karlp> eyah, that lets me snap them again after the fact, but the anchor is still always bottom left.
2021-05-14T17:00:29 < jpa-> anchor location is based on text properties, if you set the text to center align the anchor is in center
2021-05-14T17:01:14 < jpa-> also, if you want grid, maybe just enable grid in document properties?
2021-05-14T17:01:33 < karlp> ahha! taht will work!
2021-05-14T17:01:44 < karlp> I hadn't refound the center text and noticed teh anchor moving
2021-05-14T17:01:48 < karlp> that will be just fine now :) thanks
2021-05-14T17:02:51 < jpa-> :)
2021-05-14T17:03:57 < qyx> my qspi is refusing 0 prescaler (16 MHz clock)
2021-05-14T17:04:07 < qyx> *my flash
2021-05-14T17:04:35 < qyx> hm it should be 80 MHz for everything, 50 MHz for read
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2021-05-14T17:14:14 < englishman> freenode drama
2021-05-14T17:14:15 < englishman> https://p.haavard.me/407
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2021-05-14T17:29:07 < Laurenceb> ventyl: do you know if BDB provides data integrity with CRC?
2021-05-14T17:30:23 < ventyl> most probably not
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2021-05-14T17:47:19 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-05-14T17:47:26 < Laurenceb> it could be easily added to records
2021-05-14T17:47:40 < Laurenceb> the Recno thing looks suitable for me
2021-05-14T17:48:21 < Laurenceb> use a binary data format for each record then a processing script on the server that loads the data into a sql database or whatever
2021-05-14T17:49:49 < Laurenceb> could BDB store to a block device directly then?
2021-05-14T18:03:28 < Laurenceb> hmm looks like no from the docs
2021-05-14T18:03:44 < Laurenceb> any idea how I could tell if its close to running out of storage space?
2021-05-14T18:07:54 < Laurenceb> https://www.mit.edu/afs.new/sipb/project/imaptools/docs/api_c/db_stat.html
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2021-05-14T18:09:20 < Laurenceb> looks like db->stat does what I want.. maybe
2021-05-14T18:10:51 < Laurenceb> so the oldest records could be deleted before the eMMC runs out of space
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2021-05-14T18:36:19 < Laurenceb> I wonder if BDB changes to file size? Presumably only to grow it...
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2021-05-14T20:49:08 < jadew> my radiation detector arrived today
2021-05-14T20:49:18 < jadew> couldn't find anything radioactive
2021-05-14T20:50:05 < karlp> you didn't get any test target?
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2021-05-14T20:50:32 < jadew> no, I thought I would find some
2021-05-14T20:50:47 < jpa-> try some bananas
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2021-05-14T20:51:00 < jadew> wife threw them away in the morning
2021-05-14T20:51:10 < jadew> I have to wait for a new batch :)
2021-05-14T20:51:33 < jpa-> threw away? should have made banana cake
2021-05-14T20:51:45 < jadew> they were black already
2021-05-14T20:51:52 < bitmask> these custom buttons came out awesome! https://i.imgur.com/qL8Gltd.png
2021-05-14T20:52:09 < jpa-> black bananas are good for cakes
2021-05-14T20:52:15 < jpa-> also work fine for milkshakes
2021-05-14T20:52:38 < jpa-> though you have to be careful with bringing boys to the yard, with the covid situation and all
2021-05-14T20:52:52 < jpa-> bitmask: diy or ordered somewhere?
2021-05-14T20:53:08 < jadew> jpa-, lol
2021-05-14T20:53:08 < bitmask> ordered from ali
2021-05-14T20:53:17 < jpa-> bitmask: cool, how much did it cost?
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2021-05-14T20:55:13 < bitmask> $3.60 per button
2021-05-14T20:55:29 < jpa-> at only 8 pcs? or did you order 100 pcs?
2021-05-14T20:56:00 < bitmask> its the price for 1
2021-05-14T20:56:04 < bitmask> i only got the 8
2021-05-14T20:56:07 < jpa-> that's really cheap
2021-05-14T20:56:52 < bitmask> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32987617544.html
2021-05-14T20:58:34 < jadew> that's pretty cool, didn't know ali sellers do customization
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2021-05-14T21:01:54 < qyx> bitmask: onpow?
2021-05-14T21:02:04 < bitmask> ?
2021-05-14T21:02:32 < qyx> https://www.amazon.com/ONPOW-Momentary-Latching-Terminal-Stainless/dp/B07PXJQHB6
2021-05-14T21:02:35 < qyx> looks the same
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2021-05-14T21:03:14 < bitmask> i dunno what the original brand is, a million sellers have these buttons
2021-05-14T21:03:16 < qyx> I guess all china buttons are the same
2021-05-14T21:03:30 < jpa-> pretty much all 22mm metal buttons look the same
2021-05-14T21:03:49 < qyx> are those 22 mm?
2021-05-14T21:03:54 < bitmask> i got 19
2021-05-14T21:07:09 < Steffanx> That's awesome bitmask 
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2021-05-14T21:08:23 < Steffanx> How does your autism deal with the black one on the left being upside down, bitmask ?
2021-05-14T21:08:37 < bitmask> hahaha i only noticed after i uploaded the pic :P
2021-05-14T21:09:31 < jadew> are they printed or how do they do that?
2021-05-14T21:10:34 < bitmask> not sure, someone said silkscreen but dont know for sure
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2021-05-14T21:12:21 < Steffanx> The black ones have no light do they?
2021-05-14T21:12:34 < Steffanx> That would be even more awesome
2021-05-14T21:12:38 < bitmask> they do
2021-05-14T21:13:05 < Steffanx> Need proof 😝
2021-05-14T21:16:16 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/5IRYzuw.jpg
2021-05-14T21:16:56 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-14T21:17:31 < bitmask> looks like a couple speckles of light coming through where it shouldnt but not bd
2021-05-14T21:17:33 < bitmask> bad*
2021-05-14T21:18:56 < aandrew> bitmask: nice, how'd you do that
2021-05-14T21:19:11 < aandrew> oh nevermind, I see you got the chinese to do it for you
2021-05-14T21:19:29 < karlp> that is a great price though
2021-05-14T21:19:30 < bitmask> heh yup
2021-05-14T21:19:31 < karlp> neat
2021-05-14T21:20:27 < bitmask> biggest problem I have is the yellow is actually orange, not a big deal but would have preferred yellow for the high voltage button
2021-05-14T21:20:49 < karlp> I've just been inkscaping... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Mjolg.png
2021-05-14T21:21:03 < karlp> trying to decide how much text is helpful to let people nto look at spec sheets...
2021-05-14T21:21:16 < qyx> pro
2021-05-14T21:21:36 < karlp> you betcha baby.. that's me. pro graphic layout
2021-05-14T21:21:48 < karlp> to scale and correctly aligned to the cuts and all that shit that makes it so incredibly tedious
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2021-05-14T22:44:27 < mouseghost> miauuu
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2021-05-14T23:13:28 < mouseghost> im so
2021-05-14T23:13:30 < mouseghost> like
2021-05-14T23:13:31 < mouseghost> relieved now
2021-05-14T23:13:34 < mouseghost> finally finished the thing
2021-05-14T23:13:38 < mouseghost> i mean, one part of it
2021-05-14T23:13:41 < mouseghost> aaaaaaaaaahhhh!
2021-05-14T23:13:49 < mouseghost> congratulate me pls ;-;
2021-05-14T23:14:21 < effractur> yay
2021-05-14T23:14:27 < effractur> congratz :P
2021-05-14T23:14:57 < mouseghost> thanks^^
2021-05-14T23:15:14 < mouseghost> am so happy
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--- Day changed Sat May 15 2021
2021-05-15T00:23:46 < Steffanx> I'm happy for you mouseghost 
2021-05-15T00:23:52 < Steffanx> One big happy family here
2021-05-15T00:23:56 < mouseghost> :333
2021-05-15T00:24:05 < mouseghost> sshiny happy people
2021-05-15T00:37:45 < bitmask> when you place a decoupling cap and the top of the board is a power plane, do you just have the cap sitting there without any traces  since its all connected to the plane or do you use traces to force the flow from the cap
2021-05-15T00:38:05 < bitmask> im not sure it makes any difference
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2021-05-15T00:52:57 < mouseghost> huh?
2021-05-15T00:53:15 < mouseghost> bitmask, i think you need different potential 
2021-05-15T01:01:42 < karlp> aww, my st mail flood stoppped. only got 912 mails, they justmissed hitting the 1k mark :|
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2021-05-15T01:09:21 < mawk> why so many karlp 
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2021-05-15T03:44:57 < kakium69> I think I got like 3k emails from trump
2021-05-15T03:49:47 < Steffanx> Did he wanted to share pics with you, kakium69 ?
2021-05-15T03:50:25 < kakium69> no
2021-05-15T03:50:30 < kakium69> just my money
2021-05-15T03:50:49 < kakium69> and go to his rallying events
2021-05-15T03:50:53 < kakium69> and give money
2021-05-15T03:51:12 < kakium69> even after biden won
2021-05-15T03:51:33 < kakium69> money to fight back
2021-05-15T03:52:00 < kakium69> apparently the moneys went to their pockets
2021-05-15T03:53:00 < kakium69> it's nothing out of ordinary though
2021-05-15T04:03:34 < Steffanx> Ah too bax
2021-05-15T04:03:37 < Steffanx> Bad
2021-05-15T04:04:52 < kakium69> are you drunk?
2021-05-15T04:05:11 < Steffanx> No, just pressing the wrong keys
2021-05-15T04:05:19 < Steffanx> No alcohol in my blood 
2021-05-15T04:07:15 < kakium69> I was drunk hmm last.. saturday
2021-05-15T04:08:39 < kakium69> it was first warm days I went to friend to have sauna.. then another friend calls we need to go to local brewery terace to drink before 20:00
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2021-05-15T05:06:27 < bitmask> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/64966/power-plane-and-decoupling-capacitors-routing
2021-05-15T05:06:37 < bitmask> he got two conflicting answers, which is correct?
2021-05-15T05:18:06 < karlp> mawk: presumably busted system at st?
2021-05-15T05:19:33 < karlp> annnnnd I was wrong, they were just queued somewhere and I just got more of them again...
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2021-05-15T10:04:10 < jpa-> https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20160401/b083fe9fe6d81868010208.jpg   they're almost ready to ship to iceland
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2021-05-15T13:04:12 < qyx> We are working as quickly as possible to ship your order. We expect your order to be shipped by 17-05-2021. These delays are due to extended warehouse processing times, caused by peak volume, and COVID prevention procedures.
2021-05-15T13:04:16 < qyx> meh
2021-05-15T13:05:01 < qyx> peak volume of what, missing stm32s?
2021-05-15T13:12:05 -!- oofus [~quassel@212.221.8.172] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-15T13:15:23 < jly> the PRICKS
2021-05-15T13:45:17 < Steffanx> Gooday
2021-05-15T13:48:32 < jly> what's doing
2021-05-15T13:48:34 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurence@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-15T13:48:44 < jly> the flying duck
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2021-05-15T14:08:17 < Steffanx> Nottin' mr jly 
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2021-05-15T18:25:11 < mouseghost> meow
2021-05-15T18:25:13 < mouseghost> meow meow
2021-05-15T18:25:15 < mouseghost> meow meow meow
2021-05-15T18:25:21 < mouseghost> meow meow meow meow meow 
2021-05-15T18:25:27 < mouseghost> ohno i broke that
2021-05-15T18:27:16 < effractur> maiw?
2021-05-15T18:28:19 < mouseghost> miauu
2021-05-15T18:28:56 < effractur> :D
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2021-05-15T19:45:57 < aandrew> um
2021-05-15T19:46:03 < aandrew> you're *mouse* ghost, not catghost
2021-05-15T20:03:52 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-15T20:04:01 < mouseghost> any of you used internal flash to store some configuration data?
2021-05-15T20:04:06 < mouseghost> i mean, store and probably modify?
2021-05-15T20:04:11 < mouseghost> modify by the cpu itself?
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2021-05-15T20:10:03 < aandrew> mouseghost: yes I've done that. basically find the smallest flash page that'll hold it 
2021-05-15T20:10:07 < aandrew> there are plenty of examples
2021-05-15T20:10:50 < mouseghost> ohh, now i see how it works
2021-05-15T20:10:56 < mouseghost> so its basically a mov to that addr, right? aandrew
2021-05-15T20:11:02 < mouseghost> obviously, after unlocking the flash
2021-05-15T20:11:21 < mouseghost> IAP, ofc
2021-05-15T20:12:56 < mouseghost> s/mov/load/
2021-05-15T20:13:05 < mouseghost> or store
2021-05-15T20:13:05 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-15T20:13:20 < mouseghost> or well, something like that
2021-05-15T20:17:17 < jpa-> i do it so that take two pages, of any size, and then have version number in the config struct; write to end and when one page gets full, erase the other one
2021-05-15T20:17:32 < jpa-> that way you always have a valid config and you don't have to erase very often so the flash lasts longer
2021-05-15T20:19:09 < aandrew> mouseghost: no, you use the NVMC and tell it "take from this RAM address, write to this flash address, go" - it's a peripheral with HAL like anything else
2021-05-15T20:19:17 < aandrew> you don't just write to it and it "takes"
2021-05-15T20:19:36 < mouseghost> oh, i dont think i have NVMC
2021-05-15T20:19:42 < aandrew> essentially like stm32f4_hal_flashwrite(dest, src, len);
2021-05-15T20:19:51 < aandrew> what is the chip
2021-05-15T20:19:59 < jpa-> isn't NVMC some NRF52 stuff?
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2021-05-15T20:20:03 < aandrew> same idea
2021-05-15T20:20:09 < mouseghost> i have FLITF on f050
2021-05-15T20:20:33 < jpa-> on stm32 it is called FLASH or FLITF, and you do write to the flash address; but you first have to set it to write mode and erase it first
2021-05-15T20:20:37 < mouseghost> aandrew, i mean, obviously there is some more configuration to be done, but, well, im thinking about how its executed 
2021-05-15T20:20:53 < mouseghost> so what jpa- wrote is what i thought
2021-05-15T20:21:13 < mouseghost> also, is the erasure that important?
2021-05-15T20:21:20 < mouseghost> cant i just write over data?
2021-05-15T20:21:46 < aandrew> looks like chapter 3 in the RM
2021-05-15T20:21:54 < aandrew> no you can't just write over data
2021-05-15T20:21:59 < aandrew> flash is erased in entire pages
2021-05-15T20:22:25 < aandrew> and it looks like 05x has several 1k pages, so for example if you erase bank 1 you're eraseing all 1k
2021-05-15T20:22:31 < aandrew> but you can program it 16 bits at a time
2021-05-15T20:23:17 < aandrew> er yes I jsut read what jpa- wrote - you put it in flash program mode and write like htat, but I'm sure that there's a HAL API for it
2021-05-15T20:23:32 < jpa-> http://paste.dy.fi/3zD/plain   typical routine would be something like that
2021-05-15T20:23:53 < aandrew> figure 3 on page 59 of the RM tells you the process
2021-05-15T20:24:22 < aandrew> yes; the point was that there's a process, not just write to the address with the data you want, it's not like writing to RAM
2021-05-15T20:24:46 < jpa-> well, a process to set things up; after that you just write
2021-05-15T20:25:53 < jpa-> on STM32L152 you would have eeprom and could just write
2021-05-15T20:27:27 < aandrew> yep the L031 I have has eeprom as well
2021-05-15T20:35:07 < mouseghost> how many wriite/erase cycles is available tho hmm
2021-05-15T20:35:22 < jpa-> 10000 or so
2021-05-15T20:35:53 < jpa-> 10k erase cycles, that is; you can write more times by not erasing the sector every time, but writing to end until it gets full
2021-05-15T20:36:01 < mouseghost> uhum
2021-05-15T20:36:05 < mouseghost> i see
2021-05-15T20:36:13 < mouseghost> thanks
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2021-05-15T21:24:21 < mouseghost> whats that program to examine sectors etc called?
2021-05-15T21:24:26 < mouseghost> that shows what sectors are in a file?
2021-05-15T21:25:48 < mouseghost> ah, objdump
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2021-05-15T22:46:03 < bitmask> not perfect but im done! https://imgur.com/a/Wzt4OH4
2021-05-15T22:49:40 < Steffanx> when will it be done again? :P
2021-05-15T22:50:18 < bitmask> in 3 weeks
2021-05-15T22:50:20 < bitmask> :P
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--- Day changed Sun May 16 2021
2021-05-16T00:07:09 -!- oofus [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-16T00:17:15 < aandrew> interesting what are you building?
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2021-05-16T00:32:39 < zyp> wearable cremation chamber
2021-05-16T00:33:09 < zyp> oh, wait, that was last project
2021-05-16T00:35:45 < aandrew> yeah that was the last one
2021-05-16T00:35:50 < aandrew> auto-self-immoleation
2021-05-16T00:42:45 < Steffanx> You guys are mean, i thought ##stm32 was one big happy family now.
2021-05-16T01:02:11 < bitmask> cloud chamber controls and water dispenser
2021-05-16T01:02:23 < bitmask> for RO water filter
2021-05-16T01:02:37 < bitmask> submitted and paid, now I get to wait
2021-05-16T01:37:00 < R2COM> im trying to select car with regular suspension or with that where dampers have liquid inside controlled by current, like magnetically adjusted dampers
2021-05-16T01:37:08 < R2COM> i wonder if that expensive package is worth
2021-05-16T01:37:15 < R2COM> like...will I even feel it in regular ride
2021-05-16T01:37:23 < R2COM> or its only something one feels on a racetrack
2021-05-16T01:38:19 < R2COM> theoretically ...its to manually "pull liquid" i.e. adjust damper and make it adapt to current condition faster rather than it does itself, like regular one
2021-05-16T01:38:54 < R2COM> but in reality... for such fast adaptation... you need speed, and its like.... "how fast can you mechanically pull oily fluid filled with metal dust with current"
2021-05-16T01:38:58 < R2COM> its not gonna be THAT fast
2021-05-16T01:39:05 < R2COM> or fast enough where it would really matter
2021-05-16T01:39:31 < R2COM> so...it might be some marketing gimmick, or just feature which is truly there but...doesnt play much difference
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2021-05-16T01:59:28 < Steffanx> You're worth it r2com 
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2021-05-16T02:02:40 < bitmask> is he though?
2021-05-16T02:04:19 < zyp> R2COM, isn't that more a feature to adjust for the driving conditions?
2021-05-16T02:06:22 < R2COM> yes, real time adjustment
2021-05-16T02:06:41 < R2COM> it aids the damper to adjust smoother to current situation
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2021-05-16T02:21:03 < kakium69> hello night
2021-05-16T02:32:59 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrFakWkv5Xo
2021-05-16T02:33:47 < kakium69> fun sports
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2021-05-16T02:36:15 < kakium69> stef
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2021-05-16T03:43:37 < Steffanx> I'm not old enough kakium69 
2021-05-16T03:44:28 < kakium69> are you having an excistential crisis?
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2021-05-16T03:51:51 < Steffanx> It wants me to login and send cc info or ID, kakium69 
2021-05-16T03:52:08 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-16T03:52:26 < Steffanx> Probably because I entered something random as birtd
2021-05-16T03:52:37 < Steffanx> Ate when I created the account
2021-05-16T03:52:56 < Steffanx> And changed it later to something 18+ semi random
2021-05-16T03:53:13 < Steffanx> Bastards
2021-05-16T03:53:41 -!- jly [uid355225@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndszpvaqocsiuzrl] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-16T03:55:02 < kakium69> nice
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2021-05-16T03:55:28 < kakium69> anyways the video is about 200kg men bitchslapping each other in competition
2021-05-16T03:55:40 < kakium69> in turns
2021-05-16T03:55:58 < Steffanx> Oh I've seen something like that
2021-05-16T03:56:04 < Steffanx> Good morning jly
2021-05-16T03:56:23 < jly> gooday mate
2021-05-16T03:56:26 < jly> how is it
2021-05-16T03:56:30 < kakium69> but heck I laughed there was some 60kg dude slapped 200kg dude
2021-05-16T03:56:48 < kakium69> then it was 200kg dude's turn to slap
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2021-05-16T03:58:40 < kakium69> it was almost like in cartoon when someone get punched to face and flies out of his shoes
2021-05-16T04:02:11 < kakium69> how is weather jly?
2021-05-16T04:02:21 < jly> winter in a few weeks
2021-05-16T04:02:54 < kakium69> winter means like +10c?
2021-05-16T04:05:09 < jly> and it's heaps sick ayye
2021-05-16T04:05:14 < jly> winter isn't a big deal in aus
2021-05-16T04:05:32 < jly> some mornings are +3c where i am
2021-05-16T04:05:35 < jly> sometimes.... in winter
2021-05-16T04:05:57 < jly> you just have to beat out a few slugs wanking over a good hentai, to warm up in the morning
2021-05-16T04:07:44 < kakium69> yo know
2021-05-16T04:07:53 < jly> yeah muscles
2021-05-16T04:07:59 < kakium69> some times after some sessions
2021-05-16T04:08:02 < jly> what will you do today kakium69 
2021-05-16T04:08:27 < kakium69> sleep then work in fields
2021-05-16T04:08:42 < jly> 15000 roentgen
2021-05-16T04:09:13 < kakium69> ye
2021-05-16T04:10:36 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-05-16T04:10:50 < kakium69> then I go to night ride
2021-05-16T04:11:24 < kakium69> then I play some computer
2021-05-16T04:11:29 < kakium69> then I irc
2021-05-16T04:18:40 < kakium69> how about you jly?
2021-05-16T04:20:30 < jly> probably just shit talk on IRC until z-lined
2021-05-16T04:20:40 < jly> nah, going to catch up with a friend today
2021-05-16T04:22:18 < kakium69> cool
2021-05-16T04:24:24 < jly> ty mate
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2021-05-16T13:19:18 < boddax> https://github.com/hneemann/Digital nice tool to do some simulation test
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2021-05-16T14:33:56 < Steffanx> Welcome jly
2021-05-16T14:34:49 < jly> hi sir
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2021-05-16T16:46:47 < jly> oi dickhead
2021-05-16T16:48:23 < Steffanx> Yoo
2021-05-16T16:49:51 < Steffanx> Can I get you on of those jly?
2021-05-16T16:49:54 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/3AFGQjE
2021-05-16T16:50:57 < jly> let's have a look
2021-05-16T16:51:25 < jly> I have a better idea
2021-05-16T16:51:26 < jly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGH_7DUNkNM
2021-05-16T16:53:00 < Steffanx> Will you make it to minute 39?
2021-05-16T16:54:17 < jly> on what
2021-05-16T16:54:29 < jly> yeah i watched it
2021-05-16T16:54:41 < Steffanx> The video. Monotone voice much
2021-05-16T16:54:49 < jly> oh well
2021-05-16T16:55:03 < jly> most people are a bit autistic with these things
2021-05-16T16:55:10 < Steffanx> Obviously 
2021-05-16T16:55:22 < Steffanx> I know the crt fits in that category too
2021-05-16T16:55:26 < jly> at least no dave squeaky voice
2021-05-16T16:55:29 < jly> the crt
2021-05-16T16:56:40 < Steffanx> Yeah, what's that guy up to
2021-05-16T16:56:53 < jly> who cares
2021-05-16T16:57:01 < jly> appeasing the boneheads that follow him
2021-05-16T16:57:21 < jly> don't get me wrong there are good people on his forum
2021-05-16T16:57:39 < jly> but yeah the youtube channel is just drivel
2021-05-16T16:58:04 < Steffanx_> lol
2021-05-16T16:58:28 < jly> like HEY MATE. I PICKED THIS FUCKING PLASMA TV OUT OF THE BIN
2021-05-16T16:58:34 < jly> why even bother. it's so futile 
2021-05-16T16:59:44 < Steffanx_> i think hes laurenceb's mate
2021-05-16T16:59:50 < jly> yeah fucking whacko
2021-05-16T16:59:58 < jly> how to select a replacement mosfet 
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2021-05-16T16:59:59 < jly> wow
2021-05-16T17:00:25 < jly> what's he going to say, don't replace an N channel one with a P channel
2021-05-16T17:00:34 < Steffanx_> time to get back to the real important youtube channels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HfknbJRo5I
2021-05-16T17:00:41 < jly> let me guess
2021-05-16T17:00:49 < jly> hi friends kasyan
2021-05-16T17:01:04 < jly> hahaha spot on. good guess crt
2021-05-16T17:01:49 < antto> another jlcpcb product placement video
2021-05-16T17:02:41 < Steffanx_> be nice to your russian comrades antto 
2021-05-16T17:02:57 < jly> you can pump more
2021-05-16T17:03:04 < jly> what did she say it was hilarious
2021-05-16T17:03:07 < jly> THE THROTTLE
2021-05-16T17:04:02 < Steffanx_> pumping is no more jly .
2021-05-16T17:04:22 < mouseghost> hii
2021-05-16T17:04:37 < mouseghost> a qwestion: do you use memcpy or dma, for like, 64 bytes?
2021-05-16T17:05:18 < antto> i'd make a function that tosses a coin and calls one of the two sub-functions
2021-05-16T17:05:36 < mouseghost> great idea
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2021-05-16T17:06:21 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-16T17:06:37 < mouseghost> could also be good if there was something that enabled me to shift the allocated memory and just realloc it
2021-05-16T17:07:38 < jpa-> mouseghost: memcpy
2021-05-16T17:08:13 < qyx> re-a-lloc?
2021-05-16T17:08:32 < qyx> such adventure
2021-05-16T17:09:15 < mouseghost> qyx, huh?
2021-05-16T17:09:42 < jpa-> i'm disappointed in how many libraries have realloc implemented as just malloc(newsize); memcpy(new, old); free(old);
2021-05-16T17:10:00 < qyx> mouseghost: whats your code target?
2021-05-16T17:10:17 < Steffanx> Perfect solution jpa- 
2021-05-16T17:11:41 < mouseghost> qyx, code target? ie, the platform?
2021-05-16T17:12:43 < qyx> yes
2021-05-16T17:13:02 < mouseghost> arm cortex-m0, so uhh
2021-05-16T17:13:16 < mouseghost> arm-v uhhh
2021-05-16T17:13:26 < mouseghost> armv6-m thumb
2021-05-16T17:14:50 < jpa-> what else would your cpu do in such short timespan?
2021-05-16T17:15:05 < mouseghost> yeah, good question..
2021-05-16T17:15:06 < jpa-> if you copy word at a time, it is just 32 cycles
2021-05-16T17:15:10 < qyx> doing malloc/fre/realloc during runtime on an mmu-less target is generally discouraged
2021-05-16T17:15:17 < qyx> hence I am writing it is an adventure
2021-05-16T17:15:32 < mouseghost> whats mmu?
2021-05-16T17:15:37 < mouseghost> ah, mem mag unit
2021-05-16T17:16:09 < mouseghost> qyx, why is it discouraged?
2021-05-16T17:16:32 < qyx> depending on your malloc pattern your memory may become fragmented
2021-05-16T17:16:44 < qyx> and depending on your allocator
2021-05-16T17:17:22 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-16T17:17:56 < mouseghost> so what else would you do?
2021-05-16T17:18:21 < antto> avoid dynamic memory ;P~
2021-05-16T17:18:32 < qyx> don't malloc
2021-05-16T17:18:34 < mouseghost> pfffff
2021-05-16T17:19:02 < jpa-> most of the time that is the correct advice
2021-05-16T17:19:31 < qyx> doing malloc once during init() is ok too
2021-05-16T17:19:43 < antto> there's on big fat OS to wipe the butt when it sh*ts the pants
2021-05-16T17:20:33 < mouseghost> huh?
2021-05-16T17:20:42 < antto> * there's no
2021-05-16T17:21:30 < mouseghost> could make a buffer and do internal "malloc" etc uhm
2021-05-16T17:23:57 < antto> so far i've never had to use dynamic memory on bare metal, yet it's full of it in those $vendor C libs
2021-05-16T17:24:02 < antto> scary sh*t
2021-05-16T17:24:36  * mouseghost doesnt use vendor clibs other than registers definition and some functions for nvic/sysclk
2021-05-16T17:25:31 < antto> then why do you need dynamic memory, i wonder ;P~
2021-05-16T17:25:46 < mouseghost> i want to make a data buffer for input
2021-05-16T17:25:56 < mouseghost> and well, do it in a linked list, cus i figured its the easiest thing
2021-05-16T17:26:07 < mouseghost> and then just pass it on and dont care
2021-05-16T17:26:33 < antto> can't you just decide on a maximum capacity and take that much for the whole life of it?
2021-05-16T17:27:39 < mouseghost> i guess i could..
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2021-05-16T17:28:14 < mouseghost> especially that hashing is pretty fast hm
2021-05-16T17:28:31 < mouseghost> under 1ms on 48MHz, under 6ms on 8MHz
2021-05-16T17:28:58 < mouseghost> could make a double buffer
2021-05-16T17:29:10 < mouseghost> and hash one while the other is free to become full
2021-05-16T17:29:11 < mouseghost> and then swap
2021-05-16T17:29:12 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-16T17:29:36 < mouseghost> and copy these buffers somewhere else too, and then after each "free", all of the memory gets shifted
2021-05-16T17:29:47 < mouseghost> so i dont have to care about fragmentation
2021-05-16T17:30:19 < mouseghost> or even better, redo the thing, kinda
2021-05-16T17:30:20 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-16T17:30:25 < mouseghost> that'll be... fun, eh...
2021-05-16T17:30:36 < mouseghost> i need to stop working and just relax
2021-05-16T17:30:47 < antto> limitations can lead to inspiration, and inspiration can lead to...
2021-05-16T17:30:55 < mouseghost> to what
2021-05-16T17:31:02 < antto> come on, you know the word
2021-05-16T17:31:21 < mouseghost> idk, innovation?
2021-05-16T17:31:27 < antto> bingo
2021-05-16T17:31:40 < mouseghost> hm
2021-05-16T17:37:49 < mouseghost> hnnnngggghhh
2021-05-16T17:37:52 < mouseghost> now i want to use c++
2021-05-16T17:37:59 < mouseghost> i need generics so badly ;-;
2021-05-16T17:38:06 < mouseghost> or, well, want
2021-05-16T17:38:08 < mouseghost> uh
2021-05-16T17:39:48 < antto> just::do(it);
2021-05-16T17:40:08 < mouseghost> o-o
2021-05-16T17:40:21 < mouseghost> now im not so sure anymore heh
2021-05-16T17:40:33 < mouseghost> everything's in c..
2021-05-16T17:40:36 < mouseghost> gtriulrtsuglihbhsgriutlhsui
2021-05-16T17:40:37 < mouseghost> ghio;ugerwhiehrusi
2021-05-16T17:41:34 < antto> i used $vendor auto-generated C code as a starting point, then tossed away main.c for main.cpp, and slowly started replacing $vendor drivers with mine
2021-05-16T17:41:48 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-05-16T17:41:55 < mouseghost> i write everything from scratch
2021-05-16T17:42:33 < antto> i needed to use the $venor tool so i can quickly get an idea of the pinout/signals so i can make the PCB first
2021-05-16T17:42:56 < antto> and after that i could also click one button to get code generated.. so..
2021-05-16T17:43:08 < mouseghost> uhum
2021-05-16T17:43:28 < antto> but it's nasty C
2021-05-16T17:43:34 < antto> layers of functions and macros
2021-05-16T17:43:56 < mouseghost> my codes nasty as well...
2021-05-16T17:43:58 < mouseghost> but uh, well
2021-05-16T17:45:37 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/K3lDZnb.png]
2021-05-16T17:45:42 < antto> minus the ]
2021-05-16T17:48:13 < mouseghost> nice font and comments
2021-05-16T17:50:50 < qyx> uf that font made of rectangles
2021-05-16T17:52:08 < mouseghost> hm, so ill do slotted memory then...
2021-05-16T17:52:41 < mouseghost> or idk :((
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2021-05-16T18:21:47 < mouseghost> havin fun with slots uwuuu
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2021-05-16T19:19:47 < Laurenceb> https://youtu.be/VCYgtkAbCCU
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2021-05-16T19:50:05 < antto> wut is this, loirens?
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2021-05-16T19:55:38 < antto> there's gotta be better matlab tutorial videos than that one, search a bit harder
2021-05-16T20:08:55 < aandrew> hey random math question
2021-05-16T20:09:18 < aandrew> how do you "say" the left part of this out loud:  P(X /\ Y) = P(X) * P(Y)
2021-05-16T20:09:48 < aandrew> how do you say that "/\" part  (and then there's also the mutually exclusive version P(X \/ Y) = P(X) + P(Y) )
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2021-05-16T20:29:11 < mouseghost> uh
2021-05-16T20:29:15 < mouseghost> isnt /\ logic and?
2021-05-16T20:29:19 < mouseghost> and \/ logic or?
2021-05-16T20:29:27 < mouseghost> so and, or, respectively..
2021-05-16T20:29:29 < mouseghost> idk
2021-05-16T20:29:40 < aandrew> I think it might be; it's hard to try to google for this :-)
2021-05-16T20:29:51 < aandrew> I thought U and upside-down were union and intersection or someshit
2021-05-16T20:30:02 < aandrew> but again I'm not sure if these are interchangeable here (I doubt it)
2021-05-16T20:31:28 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_conjunction
2021-05-16T20:31:58 < aandrew> aha, magic keyword found. thank you PaulFertser 
2021-05-16T20:32:16 < PaulFertser> :)
2021-05-16T20:33:27 < aandrew> I wish wikipedia had audio clips for how to pronounce the equations htey have, this is the biggest issue I have with math - I can't "say" it in my head which makes it hard to learn
2021-05-16T20:35:29 < mouseghost> aandrew, union and intersection is different from and and or 
2021-05-16T20:36:22 < aandrew> mouseghost: so is this web page just wrong then and should be using the sharp angled ones? https://stats.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Introductory_Statistics/Book%3A_Introductory_Statistics_(Shafer_and_Zhang)/03%3A_Basic_Concepts_of_Probability/3.03%3A_Conditional_Probability_and_Independent_Events
2021-05-16T20:36:27 < jpa-> i would read it as   "probability of X and Y equals probability of X times probability of Y
2021-05-16T20:36:54 < aandrew> jpa-: yeah that's what I was saying out loud too but wasn't sure and idnd't want to confuse my kid
2021-05-16T20:37:39 < mouseghost> aandrew, oh idk, maybe not.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability#Mathematical_treatment wikipedia says that these should be used.. but idk tbh
2021-05-16T20:37:43 < mouseghost> havent had probability yet
2021-05-16T20:38:12 < mouseghost> i dont know if this is just notation clash or some thing that works automatically
2021-05-16T20:38:39 < aandrew> yeah see the wikipedia page has the upside down U for /\ in "independent events"
2021-05-16T20:38:53 < jpa-> in the probability classes i've had, the symbols have varied a bit; but U and ∩ are the most common i've seen
2021-05-16T20:39:21 < aandrew> jpa-: and are they pronouced "or" and "and"?
2021-05-16T20:39:25 < aandrew> in this context, I mean
2021-05-16T20:39:36 < aandrew> sorry and and or
2021-05-16T20:40:14 < jpa-> some teachers insist on saying them as "union" and "intersection" until they get fed up with students who don't understand what they are talking about
2021-05-16T20:40:25 < jpa-> after that they'll use and/or
2021-05-16T20:42:22 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols_by_subject#Logic   never heard any probability class call them "logical conjunction" though
2021-05-16T20:43:28 < mouseghost> thing with maths is that notation isnt just this is this
2021-05-16T20:43:55 < mouseghost> there is some notation that is compatible, some that is not
2021-05-16T20:44:11 < PaulFertser> I think U is used when talking about sets, and \/ is a logical operation, so different meanings.
2021-05-16T20:44:31 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction#Set_theory  looks like wikipedia explains the relation to set theory and also to natural language quite well
2021-05-16T20:44:33 < PaulFertser> And probability theory is usually based on set theory.
2021-05-16T20:46:44 < PaulFertser> You're not applying a binary operation \/ to a pair of sets
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2021-05-16T21:43:15 < Laurenceb> https://jssocial.pw/ppkey/fget/pic8/upload/7sSq7CQnwJ.jpeg
2021-05-16T21:59:46 < PaulFertser> Haha
2021-05-16T22:00:22 < Steffanx> 2020 ..
2021-05-16T22:01:11 < PaulFertser> What was happening back then?
2021-05-16T22:05:20 < Steffanx> https://twitter.com/uspoliticspoll  https://twitter.com/arisamberg fake news?
2021-05-16T22:14:46 < PaulFertser> Thank you Steffanx for fact-checking Laurenceb's "lulz", that's the spirit!
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2021-05-16T22:30:18 < Steffanx> heh, not the first time PaulFertser :)
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2021-05-16T22:56:09 < antto> opening loirens' links is a hazardous job
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--- Day changed Mon May 17 2021
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2021-05-17T01:50:20 < Steffann> Welcome jly
2021-05-17T01:50:35 < jly> gooda sport
2021-05-17T01:50:47 < jly> gooday
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2021-05-17T02:08:51 < qyx> any hints for clz on uint8_t?
2021-05-17T02:09:08 < qyx> how would you do a bitmap search with clz
2021-05-17T02:09:16 < qyx> it is even undefined on zero
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2021-05-17T06:59:01 < jpa-> qyx: i would start by comparing every uint32_t to zero while searching
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2021-05-17T09:17:24 < kakium69>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygB4EZ7ggig ufos real -pentagon
2021-05-17T09:20:08 < R2COM> its probably some drone
2021-05-17T09:22:18 < jly> FUCKING GAY
2021-05-17T09:22:37 < kakium69> yes
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2021-05-17T10:12:46 < qyx> jpa-: yeah https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ccecR
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2021-05-17T10:29:46 < jly> I am playing LTspice
2021-05-17T10:30:16 < jly> my bridge was drawing 3kA so better there than my real mosfets
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2021-05-17T11:11:14 < Steffann> Did it blow, jly?
2021-05-17T11:11:38 < jly> nup
2021-05-17T11:11:56 < jly> was just learning a few things with LTspice
2021-05-17T11:14:38 < Steffann> I should relearn the spice.
2021-05-17T11:18:59 < jly> you may not need it at all
2021-05-17T11:19:59 < Steffann> Maybe
2021-05-17T11:20:17 < Steffann> But then ill be a n00b forever 
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2021-05-17T12:52:37 < karlp> qyx: what are you doing?
2021-05-17T13:01:10 < qyx> a fifo buffer in a nor flash
2021-05-17T13:01:29 < qyx> to batch data before writing to microsd
2021-05-17T13:16:08 < zyp> wouldn't e.g. a spi fram be more suitable?
2021-05-17T13:18:14 < karlp> probably not for the size he wants...
2021-05-17T13:19:56 < jpa-> is writing to nor flash somehow cheaper than writing to microsd?
2021-05-17T13:21:20 < zyp> if you're doing small writes periodically, the microsd would probably have to rmw a full page for each
2021-05-17T13:21:40 < zyp> in which case doing append only to a raw flash should be a lot faster
2021-05-17T13:22:40 < zyp> a quick digikey search shows spi fram up to 512kB though, that should be plenty enough batching to be able to always write full pages
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2021-05-17T13:27:17 < qyx> energy consumption is bigger concern
2021-05-17T13:27:45 < qyx> I am using a 8 MB qspi, 4 MB is used for the fifo
2021-05-17T13:28:12 < qyx> with 100k PE cycles it should last for 400 GB
2021-05-17T13:28:31 < qyx> and it idles at 25 uA
2021-05-17T13:29:43 < jpa-> i would buffer in battery backed RTC ram
2021-05-17T13:30:10 < jpa-> buffering many megabytes seems a bit weird, but i guess it takes some amount of power to start up the microsd card
2021-05-17T13:35:45 < zyp> hmm
2021-05-17T13:36:54 < zyp> the hyperram I picked has a «hybrid sleep» mode that's specced to typical 35uA at 3.3V or 25uA at 1.8V
2021-05-17T13:37:52 < zyp> so if you don't need it to be nonvolatile, ram might be an option as well
2021-05-17T13:38:27 < zyp> hyperram is probably overkill, but I guess a qspi ram should be comparable
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2021-05-17T15:35:05 < aandrew> *deep sniff* ahhh I love the smell of fresh invoices in the morning
2021-05-17T15:35:36 < tct> :D
2021-05-17T15:35:41 < tct> especially on a Monday, eh?
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2021-05-17T15:41:06 < Steffann> I can send you some every 5 minutes aandrew 
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2021-05-17T16:09:26 < aandrew> Steffann: no I prefer to be on the giving end of invoices
2021-05-17T16:09:51 < Mangy_Dog> Having a strange little issue. I have a sctring of hex values. Commands for the mp3 player im using. Im trying to set volume. using Decimal values. While sure in computer code they mean the same. If i put in the decimal value, the volume doesnt change. But if i hard code a hex value (of dec 0-30) it would change... So this makes me assume I need to make some kind of dec to hex converter.... 
2021-05-17T16:09:52 < Mangy_Dog> Or is there already a simple way to wrap a hex on a dec?
2021-05-17T16:10:57 < Mangy_Dog> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695271473308237985/843837973136539698/unknown.png
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2021-05-17T16:14:06 < qyx> uint8_t is not a dec or hex, it is a number
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2021-05-17T16:14:38 < qyx> 0xaa is a literal written using hex
2021-05-17T16:16:16 < Mangy_Dog> i realise that
2021-05-17T16:16:47 < Mangy_Dog> though just changing the checksum and vol data to chars
2021-05-17T16:16:54 < Mangy_Dog> see if that mankes any difference
2021-05-17T16:17:39 < Mangy_Dog> and no it didnt
2021-05-17T16:17:56 < Mangy_Dog> so how am i meant to wrap that dec as hex?
2021-05-17T16:19:18 < Mangy_Dog> well... i should say int to hex
2021-05-17T16:26:22 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: please show an example of when it accepts the command and when it doesn't.
2021-05-17T16:26:42 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: in that screenshot, is it working as you expect it or not?
2021-05-17T16:26:48 < Mangy_Dog> well change the value vol for a hard coded hex value of 0 -30
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2021-05-17T16:27:18 < qyx> what is a hard coded hex value of 30
2021-05-17T16:27:19 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: 0x30 ? And then what happens?
2021-05-17T16:27:28 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: what volume do you get?
2021-05-17T16:27:30 < Mangy_Dog> 0x1E
2021-05-17T16:27:32 < Mangy_Dog> for 30
2021-05-17T16:27:44 < qyx> 30 and 0x1E is exactly the same
2021-05-17T16:28:07 < Mangy_Dog> to the machine yes
2021-05-17T16:28:10 < Mangy_Dog> but its not working
2021-05-17T16:28:12 < Mangy_Dog> when i run ti
2021-05-17T16:28:14 < Mangy_Dog> it
2021-05-17T16:28:21 < Mangy_Dog> or at least it should be the same
2021-05-17T16:28:30 < ventyl> are you sure, that 0x1E is passed as `vol` content?
2021-05-17T16:28:30 < Mangy_Dog> which is why im asking
2021-05-17T16:28:50 < Mangy_Dog> yes as im removing vol and putting in the hard coded value
2021-05-17T16:28:52 < Mangy_Dog> in hex
2021-05-17T16:29:06 < Mangy_Dog> i was doing that to test it
2021-05-17T16:29:12 < Mangy_Dog> and if i put it in hard coded in hex it works
2021-05-17T16:29:27 < Mangy_Dog> but if i just put in a dec/int or pass a dec/int through the function argument... It doesnt work
2021-05-17T16:29:31 < qyx> no, ventyl asks if you are sure your vol contains 30
2021-05-17T16:29:42 < qyx> does it work if you put a 30 literal instead of 1x1e?
2021-05-17T16:29:42 < ventyl> um, i mean. in case you use vol argument, are you sure, that at volset() call time, vol contains valid value?
2021-05-17T16:29:51 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-05-17T16:29:58 < Mangy_Dog> as im currently hard coding the value in the call
2021-05-17T16:30:00 < qyx> I would not be
2021-05-17T16:30:14 < qyx> what value are you hardcoding, you said Ox1e
2021-05-17T16:30:20 < qyx> does it work if you hardcode 30?
2021-05-17T16:30:26 < Mangy_Dog> qyx no it doesnt work if i put 30 in place of vol
2021-05-17T16:31:10 < ventyl> patebin working hardcoded version, non-working hardcoded version too
2021-05-17T16:31:39 < Mangy_Dog> i just described it as clearly as possible
2021-05-17T16:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> its not a complex function
2021-05-17T16:31:49 < Mangy_Dog> its 3 lines
2021-05-17T16:32:02 < Mangy_Dog> ok 4 if you include the print call
2021-05-17T16:32:09 < ventyl> so if you replace `vol` in function body by 0x1E, it works
2021-05-17T16:32:14 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-05-17T16:32:17 < Mangy_Dog> but if i put in 30
2021-05-17T16:32:18 < ventyl> if you replace it by `30` it doesn't work?
2021-05-17T16:32:18 < Mangy_Dog> it doesnt
2021-05-17T16:32:26 < Mangy_Dog> yes thats right
2021-05-17T16:32:30 < fenugrec_> pastebin
2021-05-17T16:32:35 < qyx> pastebin then
2021-05-17T16:32:35 < ventyl> 30, not 0x30, 030 or something different?
2021-05-17T16:32:37 < qyx> because it is bullshit
2021-05-17T16:32:44 < Mangy_Dog> ...
2021-05-17T16:32:59 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: Mangy_Dog: we can't believe your description, it's really contradictory to all our knowledge about C.
2021-05-17T16:33:16 < fenugrec_> +1 for the "030" scenario. C makes that octal
2021-05-17T16:34:05 < ventyl> that would still fall within valid range of volume
2021-05-17T16:35:52 < ventyl> but, if there was leading zero in checksum calculation yet there was none in voldata initialization line, then it would make perfect sense
2021-05-17T16:36:45 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/4UjSAzxC
2021-05-17T16:37:05 < Mangy_Dog> i really dont know how more simply i can explain it
2021-05-17T16:38:01 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: can you build both 2nd and 3rd variants and confirm you're getting a different binary?
2021-05-17T16:38:22 < qyx> hey and hows integer promotion in the first case?
2021-05-17T16:38:27 < qyx> note the values are char
2021-05-17T16:38:40 < qyx> yet used 0xAA in the computation
2021-05-17T16:39:04 < ventyl> i would definitely turn this into unsigned char
2021-05-17T16:39:06 < qyx> 0x1e is a signed literal
2021-05-17T16:39:12 < qyx> vol is unsigned
2021-05-17T16:39:39 < ventyl> i bet that checksum value differs for all the cases
2021-05-17T16:39:59 < qyx> Mangy_Dog: use uint8_t instead of char and try
2021-05-17T16:40:01 < PaulFertser> ventyl: why so?
2021-05-17T16:40:34 < Mangy_Dog> qyx i started off with just uint8_t instead of char the char is something i was just trying just now
2021-05-17T16:40:43 < Mangy_Dog> going to try int8_t as you mentioned literals....
2021-05-17T16:40:54 < ventyl> uint8_t...
2021-05-17T16:41:10 < PaulFertser> ventyl: I do not get it, I'd bet against you :)
2021-05-17T16:43:04 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6CRIY
2021-05-17T16:43:44 < ventyl> PaulFertser: at least vol vs. literals case should differ
2021-05-17T16:44:00 < Mangy_Dog> qyx i agree 
2021-05-17T16:44:03 < Mangy_Dog> it should all be the same thing
2021-05-17T16:44:10 < Mangy_Dog> which is why its really confusing the heck out of me
2021-05-17T16:44:13 < Mangy_Dog> why its not working
2021-05-17T16:44:46 < PaulFertser> ventyl: see qyx 's paste
2021-05-17T16:44:53 < Mangy_Dog> btw setting vol to int8_t isnt working either
2021-05-17T16:45:28 < ventyl> hmmm
2021-05-17T16:46:47 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/L3OXD
2021-05-17T16:46:48 < qyx> such code
2021-05-17T16:47:15 < qyx> idk back to work
2021-05-17T16:48:29 < PaulFertser> Mangy_Dog: if you show disassembled listings for all variants it would be clear what the difference is.
2021-05-17T16:48:49 < Mangy_Dog> well qyx just did that
2021-05-17T16:48:50 < qyx> I would say the problem is totally unrelated
2021-05-17T16:48:58 < Mangy_Dog> maybe
2021-05-17T16:49:13 < Mangy_Dog> im just looking to see if something else is some how overriding the value some how
2021-05-17T16:50:07 < Mangy_Dog> sighs
2021-05-17T16:50:10  * Mangy_Dog cries
2021-05-17T16:50:12  * Mangy_Dog screams
2021-05-17T16:50:19  * Mangy_Dog throws his computer out the window
2021-05-17T16:50:26 < Mangy_Dog> found it :(
2021-05-17T16:50:31 < Mangy_Dog> was something over riding it
2021-05-17T16:51:07 < PaulFertser> Where? That function you showed doesn't seem like it can do anything.
2021-05-17T16:51:11 < Mangy_Dog> this is why its bad returning to code thats a mix mash of stuff you jigsawed together earlier in the year, from code thats i made 2 years ago
2021-05-17T16:51:33 < Mangy_Dog> there was another function in the program that was changing the volume back to a different value
2021-05-17T16:51:55 < Mangy_Dog> so it always appeared to be stuck at a single level
2021-05-17T16:51:56 < PaulFertser> The volume in a local variable of the function you showed?
2021-05-17T16:52:08 < Mangy_Dog> i have a global as well
2021-05-17T16:52:15 < Mangy_Dog> i was hard setting it to test something
2021-05-17T16:52:35 < Mangy_Dog> but another function that handles what sound to play was also setting the volume to another value
2021-05-17T16:52:38 < PaulFertser> But your function you pasted wasn't using anything global.
2021-05-17T16:52:43 < Mangy_Dog> this program still needs lots of cleaning :D
2021-05-17T16:52:48 < Mangy_Dog> no it wasnt
2021-05-17T16:52:55 < Mangy_Dog> the thing that called this function pulled the global
2021-05-17T16:53:16 < Mangy_Dog> theres a lot of copy and pasting of old code here still i still need to clean thigns up
2021-05-17T16:53:25 < Mangy_Dog> at least i now know what i need to reorganise
2021-05-17T16:53:26 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2021-05-17T16:53:36 < PaulFertser> But that doesn't explain 0x1e vs. 30 difference
2021-05-17T16:53:41 < Mangy_Dog> it does
2021-05-17T16:53:53 < Mangy_Dog> the simple fact is... there isnt any difference
2021-05-17T16:53:56 < Mangy_Dog> and the function works
2021-05-17T16:54:06 < Mangy_Dog> its just I was calling the volset at the boot up
2021-05-17T16:54:15 < Mangy_Dog> but the program was changing it again later on
2021-05-17T16:54:27 < Mangy_Dog> this programs getting complex to the point that i missed that
2021-05-17T16:54:36 < Mangy_Dog> and given its old code i cant quite remember how everything was ordered
2021-05-17T16:54:48 < PaulFertser> I suggest the next time you show your real code and not some minimal example.
2021-05-17T16:55:04 < Mangy_Dog> ive only just sat down to resume work on the program and project ill finish this tricorder design in the next 2 to 4 weeks
2021-05-17T16:55:21 < Mangy_Dog> oh if i sent you the whole project... youll be spending a few weeks making heads or tails of it
2021-05-17T16:55:23 < Mangy_Dog> its rather complex now
2021-05-17T16:55:37 < Mangy_Dog> multiple sub systems
2021-05-17T16:55:43 < Mangy_Dog> some how just about managing to talk to each other
2021-05-17T17:05:33 < karlp> jadew: rf pro, what's the difference between sma, smaj and smajw?
2021-05-17T17:06:23 < zyp> sma-justice-warrior?
2021-05-17T17:07:44 < karlp> concretly: https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Antennas_Shenzhen-Kinghelm-Elec-KH-4G-SMA-108_C910118.html vs https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Antennas_Shenzhen-Kinghelm-Elec-KH-4G-SMAJW-100_C910119.html 
2021-05-17T17:11:00  * qyx curious too
2021-05-17T17:11:08 < qyx> sma is unidir, smaj is bidir?
2021-05-17T17:11:08 < qyx> no
2021-05-17T17:11:13 < qyx> sma/sma-ca
2021-05-17T17:12:00 < zyp> google suggests smajw is a right angle smaj
2021-05-17T17:15:47 < karlp> and one thing I've foudn suggests that -j just means "jack" vs plug...
2021-05-17T17:15:54  * karlp shrugs
2021-05-17T17:16:40 < karlp> I found a few hints that it's "knob" vs "....screW threads" ....
2021-05-17T17:16:50 < karlp> but that might be coincidence too :)
2021-05-17T17:21:51 < karlp> heh, I was looking at digikey, and included "sma male (2)" and "sma male (3)" thinking it might be some variants....
2021-05-17T17:22:01 < karlp> no.... it's literally, 2, or 3, or: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/laird-connectivity-inc/VFQ69383B2NJU-518S/13245125
2021-05-17T17:22:17 < karlp> like, yay, I can buy such a thing, but nah, not really what I was chasing :)
2021-05-17T17:24:05 < qyx> I am usually buying smbjXXa or smbjXXca
2021-05-17T17:35:20 < karlp> smb is what, mmcx or something sized? it's quite a bit smaller right?
2021-05-17T17:35:58 < qyx> ok I said nothing
2021-05-17T17:36:04  * qyx dumb
2021-05-17T17:36:30 < qyx> indeed I was thinking of TVS's
2021-05-17T17:36:53 < karlp> oh, hah :)
2021-05-17T17:50:38 < jpa-> https://www.amazon.com/SMA-JW-Coaxial-Pigtail-Quality-Shipping/dp/B01J99OO04  from this it appears JW is angled and J is straight
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2021-05-17T18:58:15 < zyp> like I said
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2021-05-17T19:30:54 < machinehum> Does anyone know of a sub 1k USD mipi alalyser?
2021-05-17T19:31:01 < machinehum> That isn't shyte
2021-05-17T19:31:17 < machinehum> Actually shyte is okay
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2021-05-17T19:59:08 < karlp> getting pretty fucking sick of these st shipment mails :|
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2021-05-17T20:05:28 < Laurenceb> keeek all the coronavirus rule examples on britbong media
2021-05-17T20:05:41 < Laurenceb> >u can legally hug someone, or go to a pub
2021-05-17T20:06:08 < Laurenceb> <yeah but can I legally snort 10g of cocaine whilst fugging a hooker??
2021-05-17T20:06:36 < Laurenceb> they need to pick examples that are relevant to our lives
2021-05-17T20:17:06 < mawk> I cut two of my fingers with a big dull knife while cutting my evening baguette
2021-05-17T20:17:27 < mawk> so instead of nicely cutting it shred the flesh of the fingers
2021-05-17T20:28:57 < Steffann> poor mawk
2021-05-17T20:29:03 < Steffann> do i have to call 112?
2021-05-17T20:31:25 < antto> wow, hazardous baguettes
2021-05-17T20:35:12 < Steffann> because dutch baguettes are fake.
2021-05-17T20:36:01 < antto> how do you say "fake" in .fr?
2021-05-17T20:41:36 < Steffann> faux
2021-05-17T20:50:33 -!- Steffann [~steffanx@unaffiliated/steffanx] has quit [Quit: Whop whop]
2021-05-17T20:56:29 < boddax> mawk you got samurai katant to slice bread ?
2021-05-17T20:58:48 < englishman> Laurenceb: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/vaccine_guidance.png
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2021-05-17T21:34:32 < Steffann> what i imagine Laurenceb to look like and talk about baby shaking when he is 101 years old: https://youtu.be/2tdiKTSdE9Y?t=360
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2021-05-17T21:46:06 < Steffann> did mawk die in the meantime?
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2021-05-17T21:57:30 < mawk> no Steffann I'm alive
2021-05-17T21:57:42 < mawk> no boddax just a stupid dutch knife
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2021-05-17T23:44:02 < machinehum> What is the opposite of type inference?
2021-05-17T23:44:14 < machinehum> Like what c has, when you have to specify a type?
2021-05-17T23:44:38 < PaulFertser> explicit type specification I'd say
2021-05-17T23:53:17 < machinehum> Sounds about right
2021-05-17T23:53:19 < machinehum> Thanks
--- Day changed Tue May 18 2021
2021-05-18T00:23:07 < mawk> C infers everything to int
2021-05-18T00:23:12 < mawk> it's the ultimate type inference
2021-05-18T00:23:37 < mawk> only with pesky -pedantic and -Werror and such it spoils the fun
2021-05-18T00:26:49 < machinehum> Did the c spec every implement the auto thinggy
2021-05-18T00:26:59 < mawk> dunno
2021-05-18T00:27:02 < mawk> gcc did
2021-05-18T00:27:07 < mawk> that's all that matters
2021-05-18T00:27:11 < mawk> __auto_type
2021-05-18T00:27:15 < mawk> I use it in macros
2021-05-18T00:27:21 < machinehum> swag
2021-05-18T00:27:28 < mawk> there's __typeof__ also
2021-05-18T00:27:38 < mawk> like the decltype of C++
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2021-05-18T02:19:46 < kakium69> hello dear
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2021-05-18T03:14:49 < bitmask> mouser order here, just need my boards
2021-05-18T03:15:45 < jly> WHA
2021-05-18T03:15:53 < jly> WHAT'S YA PROBLEM NOW MATE
2021-05-18T03:19:12 < bitmask> no problem? just waiting
2021-05-18T03:19:58 < jly> better get me a cup of tea
2021-05-18T03:20:11 < bitmask> i'll just sit here
2021-05-18T03:24:20 < jly> okay
2021-05-18T03:24:29 < jly> it ain't gonna suck itself boy
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2021-05-18T03:31:46 < jly> oi mate
2021-05-18T03:31:53 < jly> blaxter get back here
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2021-05-18T07:52:40 < R2COM> tct do you use linuxulator on freebsd for anything?
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2021-05-18T10:02:54 < Steffann> If tct does he'll get a lifetime ban
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2021-05-18T13:20:59 < karlp> anyone recognize what this bullshit is trying to do? https://paste.jvnv.net/raw/4tVC5
2021-05-18T13:21:09 < karlp> I suspect it's just obfuscated text.
2021-05-18T13:21:19 < karlp> but it's not just straight ascii at least,
2021-05-18T13:23:05 < Steffann> Google says it's a crc32 table
2021-05-18T13:26:41 < karlp> oh, ok. 
2021-05-18T13:26:49 < karlp> I wonder what a webpage needs that for....
2021-05-18T13:27:47 < Steffann> Funny obfuscated javascript though.
2021-05-18T13:31:47 < karlp> it's very compactly unified and minified, whole thing
2021-05-18T13:32:04 < karlp> it's taken me a good 25 minutes to analyser, I've only  _just_ figured out the software package that makes it :)
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2021-05-18T15:53:13 < Laurenceb> THE TREE OF LIBERTY WILL BE WATERED WITH THE BLOOD OF TYRANTS AND TRAITORS!!!
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2021-05-18T16:31:15 < bitmask> muh boards are done, just in testing now
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2021-05-18T16:48:59  * ventyl stooooopid
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2021-05-18T17:54:34 < karlp> top quality dialogs again https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NhHSP.png
2021-05-18T17:54:40 < karlp> so glad I upgraded to a clean install...
2021-05-18T17:54:58 < karlp> (that windows not resizable either)
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2021-05-18T18:20:30 < jpa-> i wonder what happens if you select "Remember my decision" and select "No"
2021-05-18T18:27:08 < karlp> lol, "Your design is so bad all the chips for it are still in stock."
2021-05-18T18:27:22 < karlp> (thanks aandrew...)
2021-05-18T18:32:20 < jpa-> i ended up ordering my opamps directly from TI; surprisingly they have only 6 EUR shipping fees
2021-05-18T18:37:27 < ventyl> intel tries to promote 12V-only computer PSUs and people are ranting about it
2021-05-18T18:37:35 < ventyl> just because it is promoted by intel
2021-05-18T18:45:57 < karlp> as opposed to what, split 12+5?
2021-05-18T18:47:36 < ventyl> as opposed to current ATX 12+5+3.3+whatever is there but is unused
2021-05-18T18:48:33 < Ultrasauce> -12 -5
2021-05-18T18:49:11 < englishman> surely a single +44V rail would be the best
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2021-05-18T19:33:45 < bitmask> theres no -5 is there?
2021-05-18T19:36:09 < Ultrasauce> was thinking of AT
2021-05-18T19:37:54 < bitmask> damn, i gotta rebuild my 3d printer and build an enclosure for this project
2021-05-18T19:38:01 < bitmask> and mucho other stuffo
2021-05-18T19:38:31 < Steffann> Poor bitmask 
2021-05-18T19:38:43 < bitmask> :P
2021-05-18T19:39:04 < kakium69> hello evening
2021-05-18T19:39:07 < kakium69> early hours
2021-05-18T19:40:02  * antto mixes some kakium69 with accetone
2021-05-18T19:40:18 < bitmask> 'ello
2021-05-18T19:40:26 < kakium69> kakium69 is not soluable to acetone
2021-05-18T19:40:44 < antto> don't tell me how to make a lava lamp!~
2021-05-18T19:40:59 < kakium69> ah
2021-05-18T19:41:01  * antto adds RGB LEDs
2021-05-18T19:41:11 < kakium69> yes it's very good glow in the dark stuff
2021-05-18T19:41:51 < ventyl> bitmask: abs filament?
2021-05-18T19:42:06 < ventyl> hm no, that wouldn't cause so much hassle
2021-05-18T19:42:21 < bitmask> for what?
2021-05-18T19:42:36 < bitmask> im not printing an enclosure for my project if thats what you meant
2021-05-18T19:42:47 < bitmask> they are separate things i need to do
2021-05-18T19:42:56 < ventyl> what causes the need for enclosure and rebuild
2021-05-18T19:43:30 < bitmask> the rebuild is because my hotend started to leak and i had a bunch of upgrades I wanted to do anyway so i might as well do it all at once
2021-05-18T19:43:42 < bitmask> the enclosure is for a project, im making it out of hardboard
2021-05-18T19:43:56 < bitmask> just gotta figure out how i wanna connect the boards together
2021-05-18T19:44:17 < bitmask> i printed out some cubes with heatset screw inserts so i can screw the panels to each other, not the best solution but should work
2021-05-18T19:44:45 < bitmask> maybe i'll glue some boards together to reduce the number of screws and make removing the case easier
2021-05-18T19:44:45 < ventyl> it doesn't need to be completely air tight, does it?
2021-05-18T19:44:57 < bitmask> not at all, this isnt an enclosure for the printer
2021-05-18T19:45:28 < bitmask> its a box for a project
2021-05-18T19:45:47 < kakium69> where are the pics
2021-05-18T19:46:09 < ventyl> hm, I could finish my project too
2021-05-18T19:46:26 < ventyl> air tunnel, Y U no design itself?
2021-05-18T19:46:46 < bitmask> dont have any but its the same board as i used in this project: https://i.imgur.com/Az0qjFo.png
2021-05-18T19:47:15 < kakium69> soldering hood?
2021-05-18T19:47:20 < bitmask> spray painting
2021-05-18T19:47:33 < kakium69> cool cool
2021-05-18T19:47:47 < bitmask> folds up to this: https://i.imgur.com/Az0qjFo.png
2021-05-18T19:47:49 < bitmask> oops
2021-05-18T19:47:56 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/PWhRo92.jpg
2021-05-18T19:48:18 < bitmask> with fan: https://i.imgur.com/KYJ1BQf.jpg
2021-05-18T19:49:07 < kakium69> did oyu invent this?
2021-05-18T19:50:20 < bitmask> im not that cool, i got the idea from these cheap things: https://www.amazon.com/VIVOHOME-Portable-Airbrush-Lights-Filter/dp/B07X9M35VJ/
2021-05-18T19:50:30 < bitmask> mine is bigger and has a much better fan
2021-05-18T19:53:09 < bitmask> it is pretty sweet though aint it?
2021-05-18T19:55:27 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-18T19:56:17 < kakium69> should fix my filter box
2021-05-18T19:56:45 < bitmask> for soldering?
2021-05-18T19:56:53 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-18T19:57:12 < bitmask> yea i should make something for soldering, i just hold my breath which is close to useless :P
2021-05-18T19:57:26 < kakium69> it has such flaw that outstream velocity is so high it actually sucks air from front of filter
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2021-05-18T20:03:00 < kakium69> bitmask: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2GcdpJiNGfKNFZLVDREZ0JPVms?usp=sharing
2021-05-18T20:04:30 < Steffann> 2016 :)
2021-05-18T20:04:39 < kakium69> so I need to modify the fan output so that it doesn't make venturi effect thing where most of the air just gets sucked into outstream of the fan
2021-05-18T20:05:32 < kakium69> it works so badly I'm sticking to sniffing solder and flux vapours instead of pulling that box out
2021-05-18T20:06:05 < kakium69> I love the involuntary vomit reflex
2021-05-18T20:06:24 < kakium69> caused by my flux
2021-05-18T20:08:05 < kakium69> I think it needs a long pipe or shorter pipe and a bell
2021-05-18T20:11:33 < bitmask> oh wow, heavy duty
2021-05-18T20:12:00 < kakium69> it's a computer from 2003
2021-05-18T20:12:25 < bitmask> why is it on a pole after you painted it? hah
2021-05-18T20:12:54 < kakium69> because it was wet of paint
2021-05-18T20:12:58 < kakium69> outside
2021-05-18T20:13:06 < bitmask> i see
2021-05-18T20:13:13 < kakium69> I finished it on the pole
2021-05-18T20:13:14 < bitmask> it just looks so high up
2021-05-18T20:13:30 < kakium69> maybe i lifted it to roof
2021-05-18T20:13:44 < kakium69> if air in roof was warmer
2021-05-18T20:14:20 < bitmask> can you put epoxy over super glue without any issues?
2021-05-18T20:14:22 < kakium69> I did some tricks there idk.
2021-05-18T20:14:49 < kakium69> i think so? why?
2021-05-18T20:15:00 < bitmask> i just used super glue to tack the boards together and then i wanna use epoxy to actually hold the panels together
2021-05-18T20:15:09 < kakium69> CA didn't work so it's time .. yes
2021-05-18T20:15:31 < bitmask> guess i can also just use 5 min epoxy to tack them, just wanted to avoid all the mixing
2021-05-18T20:16:14 < kakium69> CA tends to tarnish the surface
2021-05-18T20:16:34 < bitmask> yea, not a big deal though
2021-05-18T20:17:29 < kakium69> I glued wires to pcb with CA and it made pcb around it white from the vapours
2021-05-18T20:18:07 < kakium69> some acetone wiping removed it
2021-05-18T20:18:09 < bitmask> yea i hate that
2021-05-18T20:18:12 < bitmask> but its fine for this
2021-05-18T20:21:55 < kakium69> usually I'm more worried about epoxy
2021-05-18T20:23:05 < kakium69> too many times I apply epoxy only to find that it didn't actually stick to the surface
2021-05-18T20:24:43 < kakium69> ABS plastic fracture - pull test - epoxy comes cleanly off
2021-05-18T20:25:47 < kakium69> smooth surface - epoxy flakes off and leaves thin layer of sort of liquid resin or something
2021-05-18T20:26:05 < bitmask> wow, i am so sloppy
2021-05-18T20:26:34 < bitmask> this stuff cures too damn fast
2021-05-18T20:26:38 < bitmask> i need a 10 min epoxy
2021-05-18T20:26:55 < kakium69> 5min epoxy doesn't mean you have any time to play with it
2021-05-18T20:27:38 < kakium69> I think 60min epoxy is the bestest
2021-05-18T20:27:53 < bitmask> i have some long curing epoxy too but its too long
2021-05-18T20:28:01 < bitmask> i just wanna get this done
2021-05-18T20:31:39 < bitmask> i guess i'll combine these panels into two parts.  top + two sides and then bottom + front + back
2021-05-18T20:31:48 < bitmask> then use screws to connect the two parts
2021-05-18T20:32:32 < kakium69> ah you are making that box
2021-05-18T20:32:51 < bitmask> that box?
2021-05-18T20:33:04 < kakium69> spray box
2021-05-18T20:33:05 < bitmask> wtf I'm missing one of the sides
2021-05-18T20:33:15 < bitmask> no i already made that, thats mine
2021-05-18T20:33:22 < bitmask> this is for another project
2021-05-18T20:34:19 < bitmask> its a cloud chamber, but then I'm also using the peltier as a water chiller for my water filter/dispenser
2021-05-18T20:36:47 < kakium69> combined vapour box / ro filter
2021-05-18T20:37:46 < bitmask> yup
2021-05-18T20:37:56 < bitmask> strange combo but whatevs
2021-05-18T20:38:58 < kakium69> you can monitor if your water has ionizing radiation?
2021-05-18T20:39:14 < bitmask> hah
2021-05-18T20:40:20 < kakium69> or you could add cobolt source to it and ionize the water while having vapor chamber going crazy
2021-05-18T20:42:11 < kakium69> I think my tooth has a hole
2021-05-18T20:42:21 < kakium69> cannot believe this
2021-05-18T20:43:47 < kakium69> or is it called a cavity
2021-05-18T20:45:57 < kakium69> now I need to chew some xylitol gum with that teeth and drink some milk and it will go away
2021-05-18T20:47:47 < kakium69> maybe wash the teeth more often maybe every other night and avoid drinking sugar drink with that side of mouth
2021-05-18T20:49:08 < bitmask> :)
2021-05-18T20:49:22 < kakium69> pro moves
2021-05-18T20:49:35 < bitmask> speaking of hygiene... i need to shower, bbl
2021-05-18T20:57:01 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-05-18T20:57:15 < Laurenceb> >implying basement dwelling stm32 developers ever shower
2021-05-18T20:59:17 < Laurenceb> oh yeah baby
2021-05-18T20:59:19 < Laurenceb> https://train2earn.co.uk/level-2-award-in-door-supervision-qcf/#:~:text=The%20Level%202%20Award%20in%20Door%20Supervision%20%28QCF%29,apply%20for%20an%20SIA%20licence%20in%20Door%20Supervision.
2021-05-18T20:59:30 < Laurenceb> til another 4chan meme is real
2021-05-18T20:59:35 < kakium69> are you webchattin Laurenceb?
2021-05-18T20:59:42 < Laurenceb> looks like it
2021-05-18T21:00:00 < kakium69> I can see you typing
2021-05-18T21:00:27 < Laurenceb> lol yeah they upgraded the javashit
2021-05-18T21:00:34 < kakium69> not what you are typing but "Laurenceb..."
2021-05-18T21:00:36 < Laurenceb> now its like microsoft teams on here
2021-05-18T21:00:47 < kakium69> so unirc-y
2021-05-18T21:00:57 < Laurenceb> presumably thats a proprietary extension
2021-05-18T21:02:40 < kakium69> is dole making you to go to jump through the hoops?
2021-05-18T21:07:27 < Laurenceb> huh? I have a jerb
2021-05-18T21:10:24 < kakium69> yes
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2021-05-18T21:52:53 < kakium69> no
2021-05-18T21:53:10 < kakium69> steff
2021-05-18T21:54:24 < kakium69> what is up with your alter egos?
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2021-05-18T21:59:58 < kakium69> can you start UPS without mains?
2021-05-18T22:00:25 < kakium69> I pulled my new Eaton from box and connected it to mains to charge it
2021-05-18T22:01:13 < kakium69> when thunderstorm hits I pull the cord and plan to supply from that ups
2021-05-18T22:01:50 < kakium69> that is what is done in countryside.. pull everything when thunder is coming
2021-05-18T22:06:14 < zyp> no surge protection?
2021-05-18T22:06:55 < kakium69> it's not up to me
2021-05-18T22:07:27 < zyp> what is?
2021-05-18T22:07:49 < kakium69> to have them installed in cabinets
2021-05-18T22:08:07 < zyp> how so?
2021-05-18T22:08:44 < kakium69> I don't run the place
2021-05-18T22:09:09 < kakium69> I surelly have some wall bricks to protect my own shit
2021-05-18T22:09:43 < zyp> so what you're saying is that you can't get a surge protector because you're still living with your parents and they are deciding otherwise?
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2021-05-18T22:16:36 < Steffann> Just 2 clients kakium69
2021-05-18T22:16:49 < Steffann> one on nas, one ircloud
2021-05-18T22:17:26 < kakium69> zyp: yes
2021-05-18T22:17:33 < bitmask> wooop woop last step before final inspection
2021-05-18T22:17:48 < kakium69> zyp: I try to say that without saying that
2021-05-18T22:18:07 < kakium69> Steffann: why 2 though?
2021-05-18T22:18:19 < Steffann> too lazy to shutdown ircloud
2021-05-18T22:18:29 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-05-18T22:18:48 < kakium69> you can have a conversation with yourself
2021-05-18T22:19:14 < Steffann> that too
2021-05-18T22:19:18 < Steffann> but i can already do that
2021-05-18T22:19:26 < Steffann> dont need an irc client for that
2021-05-18T22:20:04 < bitmask> it helps you log your craziness though
2021-05-18T22:21:14 < Steffann> Yes, lets add some music for that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72VskkKv6do
2021-05-18T22:22:08 < bitmask> listen to real music
2021-05-18T22:22:41 < Steffann> 90s music <3
2021-05-18T22:23:05 < kakium69> there is 90s channel on fm radio
2021-05-18T22:23:07 < bitmask> 60s
2021-05-18T22:23:18 < kakium69> I listen it while working
2021-05-18T22:23:35 < bitmask> and 70s
2021-05-18T22:24:15 < bitmask> i guess 80s too and might as well throw 90s in there, but nothing later
2021-05-18T22:24:17 < Steffann> ok 70s music for you then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0vT-ERKSFs 
2021-05-18T22:24:28 < Steffann> (repost)_
2021-05-18T22:27:42 < kakium69> 90's dance music, early 00's pop music, early 10's electronic music
2021-05-18T22:29:24 < kakium69> 80s vangelis
2021-05-18T22:29:49 < bitmask> all ya need are pink floyd, led zeppelin, queen, guns n roses, billy joel, rolling stones, umm im sure theres others :P
2021-05-18T22:30:14 < antto> http://antonsavov.net/tmp/BOZA_98.mp3
2021-05-18T22:30:25 < kakium69> 70s pink floyd, progressive
2021-05-18T22:30:45 < kakium69> 80s italodisco I almost forgot
2021-05-18T22:31:28 < kakium69> antto: your musics?
2021-05-18T22:32:00 < antto> yiz
2021-05-18T22:32:10 < kakium69> nice
2021-05-18T22:32:17 < antto> just the latest unfinished sh*t
2021-05-18T22:32:56 < kakium69> nice melody
2021-05-18T22:33:39 < Steffann> such mainstream bitmask :P
2021-05-18T22:41:51 < kakium69> antto: more?
2021-05-18T22:45:10 < bitmask> so? its great music
2021-05-18T22:45:39 < bitmask> are we in middle school?
2021-05-18T22:45:44 < bitmask> :P
2021-05-18T22:47:32 < kakium69> no
2021-05-18T22:47:54 < kakium69> we are the kindergarten
2021-05-18T22:50:48 < kakium69> that reminds me that in kindergarten iron made was the shit
2021-05-18T22:51:10 < kakium69> iron maden*
2021-05-18T22:51:23 < kakium69> ffuu* maiden
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2021-05-18T23:09:04 < bitmask> haha oh shit
2021-05-18T23:09:07 < bitmask> i fucked up
2021-05-18T23:09:22 < bitmask> well maybe not but i gotta change things around 
2021-05-18T23:09:29 < bitmask> stupid enclosure
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2021-05-18T23:33:53 < bitmask> what is wrong with me
2021-05-18T23:34:05 < bitmask> i just dropped two $22 peltiers
2021-05-18T23:34:18 < bitmask> luckily no damage
2021-05-18T23:36:49 < Steffann> What is wrong with you bitmask 
2021-05-18T23:37:26 < bitmask> everything
2021-05-18T23:41:27 < Steffann> It's OK. We love you as you are
2021-05-18T23:41:47 < bitmask> awww
2021-05-18T23:53:08 < bitmask> grrr where is my sander thing
--- Day changed Wed May 19 2021
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2021-05-19T00:25:52 < Steffann> Ask your gf bitmask 
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2021-05-19T00:28:19 < bitmask> i found it, all is right in the world
2021-05-19T00:32:27 < bitmask> having a decent+large square is very useful
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2021-05-19T01:47:56 < Laurenceb> arggg scammers
2021-05-19T01:48:06 < Laurenceb> >no DC-DC convertors on digikey
2021-05-19T01:48:15 < Laurenceb> >same convertors on ebay at huge markup
2021-05-19T01:52:27 < bitmask> mouser > digikey
2021-05-19T01:52:38 < bitmask> what buck are you looking for
2021-05-19T01:56:14 < Laurenceb> RPA30-2415SAW
2021-05-19T01:56:22 < Laurenceb> inb4 bitmask buys all stock
2021-05-19T01:57:19 < Laurenceb> https://hackpartners.com/events/hacktrain-5/
2021-05-19T01:57:24 < Laurenceb> five point zero!!
2021-05-19T01:58:30 < bitmask> interesting, those bucks fully self contained? nothing else needed?
2021-05-19T01:58:41 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-19T01:59:00 < Laurenceb> but they lie, you need external filter to meet full regulatory compliance
2021-05-19T01:59:22 < bitmask> im currently working with a TPS54040
2021-05-19T01:59:38 < Laurenceb> yeah, usually cheaper and makes assembly easier
2021-05-19T02:00:23 < bitmask> oh its recom, ive heard of them
2021-05-19T02:00:31 < bitmask> i'll have to take a look at their line later
2021-05-19T02:00:36 < kakium69> cheaper?
2021-05-19T02:00:52 < Laurenceb> those self contained DC-DC are expensive
2021-05-19T02:00:58 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-19T02:01:04 < Laurenceb> arg why did they have to add a javascript microsoft teams clone
2021-05-19T02:01:09 < Laurenceb> >kakimir is typing
2021-05-19T02:01:40 < bitmask> oh haha wtf i just looked at the price
2021-05-19T02:02:33 < kakium69> usually modules are used for small scale productions of expensive devices
2021-05-19T02:02:51 < kakium69> it's a bit like outsourcing part of the project
2021-05-19T02:03:22 < Laurenceb> in my case I need to make a few thousand units
2021-05-19T02:03:33 < kakium69> still small-ish scale
2021-05-19T02:03:40 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-19T02:03:43 < kakium69> is it expensive device?
2021-05-19T02:04:04 < Laurenceb> £500/unit
2021-05-19T02:04:12 < kakium69> bom?
2021-05-19T02:04:23 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-19T02:04:36 < kakium69> it's expens-ish
2021-05-19T02:04:48 < Laurenceb> its also not going to happen
2021-05-19T02:04:52 < kakium69> why?
2021-05-19T02:04:57 < Laurenceb> just too little stock everywhere
2021-05-19T02:05:11 < Laurenceb> going to have to reduce it to ~250 units for initial delivery
2021-05-19T02:05:21 < Laurenceb> the components shortage is real
2021-05-19T02:05:53 < kakium69> what it the worst parts to source?
2021-05-19T02:06:03 < kakium69> what are* currently*
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2021-05-19T02:21:34 < Laurenceb> DC-DC
2021-05-19T02:21:37  * Laurenceb zzz
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2021-05-19T02:25:31 < jly> good work
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2021-05-19T02:47:41 < bitmask> this enclosure is driving me nuts
2021-05-19T02:49:15 < bitmask> oh boy, my pcbs are finished though
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2021-05-19T03:36:55 < bitmask> ugh one panel is too short, no way im trimming 3 panels to make em all equal, i'll consider it an air vent
2021-05-19T03:39:21 < jly> hi sir
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2021-05-19T03:42:19 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/HHTrI3p.png
2021-05-19T03:42:20 < bitmask> :/
2021-05-19T03:56:52 < bitmask> on the black box, should I print a panel in some color and then use black buttons or just use silver button straight on the black
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2021-05-19T04:11:51 < upgrdman> anyone know of a source for low power high voltage dc power supplies? i'm looking for 120VAC -> 400VDC and only need an output current of a few mA.
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2021-05-19T04:12:05 < upgrdman> was hoping to find something like a normal power brick, but no luck so far :/
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2021-05-19T11:17:44 < Steffann> Lol ... more freenode drama
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2021-05-19T13:25:29 < karlp> qyx: how did you assemble your quacktel modems?  seems pretty non-workable to just try hotair.
2021-05-19T13:25:57 < karlp> related, anyone have any experience with basic reflow ovens? I know this t962 is common, is it _viable_ or completely not worth your time?
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2021-05-19T13:45:55 < qyx> karlp: drag-soldered those with castellated holes
2021-05-19T13:46:01 < qyx> I did not use LGA type yet
2021-05-19T13:54:05 < karlp> ahh, this was LGA. colleague says "no workie" 
2021-05-19T13:54:31 < karlp> are there any DIY projects that are "finished" like I can just buy a pcb from a vendor and a toaster oven and have a suitable oven?
2021-05-19T13:56:10 < jpa-> my expereience has been that toaster ovens are fiddly even with PID controller and whatever, heating on stove is simple to get right and you just need a piece on aluminum as heat spreader - only works for one-sided SMT though
2021-05-19T13:56:54 < karlp> we had a toaster oven with a thermocouple and a note from an old staff member "full blast till it says xxx°C, then turn off, crack door to X, wait Y min"
2021-05-19T13:57:02 < karlp> and that "worked" for some stuff we were doing then
2021-05-19T13:57:16 < karlp> but we're doing more advanced stuff now, and it was fiddly as shit still, 
2021-05-19T13:57:34 < karlp> we're only really doing one sided smt. 
2021-05-19T13:57:52 < karlp> stove just a pan on a portable hot plate thing?
2021-05-19T13:58:16 < jpa-> yeah, i have just piece of aluminum on top of hot plate and PCB on top of that
2021-05-19T13:58:46 < jpa-> though now i've made a custom piece of aluminum that has a hole for thermocouple, so i can monitor it a bit better
2021-05-19T13:58:47 < karlp> that works for a hot hot plate, better be careful if we get induction like
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2021-05-19T13:58:49 < karlp> https://www.amazon.com/Countertop-Induction-Hassle-Free-Temperature-Adjustable/dp/B08DVVVV8M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=hot+plate&qid=1621421896&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTDRXQVBHV1pUTzk2JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTQxMzE2MllaNkdYRkRJT0lOVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODYxNDYwM0hPRTA2MUgxMjM0MSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
2021-05-19T13:59:14 < jpa-> yeah, i have the plain old resistive heater cast iron style stove
2021-05-19T13:59:52 < karlp> so I mean, vs this thing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899402068.html what's better/wrose?
2021-05-19T14:00:18 < jpa-> i'd be interested to know also - i haven't tried one of those
2021-05-19T14:00:28 < jpa-> i've just heard about them smoking until you fix something internally
2021-05-19T14:01:16 < karlp> I mean, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32876049554.html looks like a "nicer" version of a hotplate anyway, with the temp controller built in.
2021-05-19T14:02:53 < jpa-> "the source of the stink is the painted plate of the pressure of the heaters"
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2021-05-19T14:32:22 < Laurenceb5> incel pride, world wide
2021-05-19T14:35:23 < dongs_> opensauce
2021-05-19T14:38:37 < englishman> how do you find good chats on telegay
2021-05-19T14:38:57 < englishman> all the channels ive found are 1) russian 2) paki 3) just spambots
2021-05-19T14:42:00 < dongs_> lol definitely (2), the biggtest altium channel is fucking arabs or someshit
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2021-05-19T15:31:06 < ventyl> jpa-: heh, it seems, that i've found out the bug with waveform not scrolling on DSO203. it will be something like simple if in GUI code
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2021-05-19T16:08:02 < ventyl> meow?
2021-05-19T16:40:03 < karlp> that's the trust...
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2021-05-19T18:12:11 < jpa-> meh, bought 10 chips from ti.com; they send them in two DHL shipments, both apparently from same place in singapore
2021-05-19T18:12:18 < jpa-> i wonder if they really couldn't fit them in one box
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2021-05-19T20:10:58 < desperek> jpa-, 5 and 5?
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2021-05-19T20:21:28 < mawk> desperek 10
2021-05-19T20:21:45 < desperek> mawk, how was it split in the packages, though
2021-05-19T20:22:22 < mawk> ah nevermind I thought you were asking jpa- how much is 5+5
2021-05-19T20:22:31 < mawk> so I thought I would help with my high education in mathematics
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2021-05-19T20:32:00 < qyx> jpa-: does ticom sell directly?
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2021-05-19T21:17:49 < Steffann> Yes qyx..
2021-05-19T21:18:38 < qyx> I lost my patience while filling in their form
2021-05-19T21:19:32 < qyx> americans doesn't know there are parts of the world without states/provinces
2021-05-19T21:19:45 < qyx> nor addresses without landline
2021-05-19T21:20:06 < qyx> and want the address and my name to be written in english
2021-05-19T21:20:34 < mawk> the state of paris is paris, in france
2021-05-19T21:20:57 < qyx> probably they haven't heard of utf8 as of 2021
2021-05-19T21:21:15 < mawk> mister qÿx glockenspiel
2021-05-19T21:21:27 < qyx> jpa-: how much was the shipping?
2021-05-19T21:21:56 < qyx> ja glockenspiel kletterbaumer wienershnitzel
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2021-05-19T21:59:01 < Steffann> jpa-'s answering machine: qyx it was 6 EUR
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2021-05-19T22:04:34 < qyx> u sure?
2021-05-19T22:04:38 < qyx> thanks
2021-05-19T22:05:14 < qyx> jpa-: did you do customs?
2021-05-19T22:06:07 < Steffann> he mentioned this earlier this week qyx
2021-05-19T22:06:31 < qyx> so it took only few days to ship then
2021-05-19T22:06:53 < qyx> because hey, it is much cheaper directly than using mouser
2021-05-19T22:07:09 < qyx> like only a half the price or so
2021-05-19T22:07:24 < qyx> if the shipping is not 100€ and it is not much hassle
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2021-05-19T23:44:57  * karlp is in love with mouser recently.
2021-05-19T23:45:03 < karlp> DDP, free shipping. fantastic
2021-05-19T23:45:10 < karlp> don't like the search much anymore htough, 
2021-05-19T23:45:18 < karlp> and order by price is still fucking wonky as shit
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--- Day changed Thu May 20 2021
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2021-05-20T00:06:26 < englishman> mouser search is shit
2021-05-20T00:06:27 < englishman> BUT
2021-05-20T00:06:32 < Steffann> But
2021-05-20T00:06:35 < englishman> you can search for digikey part numbers
2021-05-20T00:06:40 < Steffann> Lol
2021-05-20T00:06:42 < englishman> so use digikeys search
2021-05-20T00:06:47 < englishman> then buy it in mauser
2021-05-20T00:06:57 < Steffann> Or from ti directly 
2021-05-20T00:07:17 < englishman> ti has great service and prices
2021-05-20T00:09:31 < R2COM> #freebsd
2021-05-20T00:09:35 < R2COM> errr
2021-05-20T00:09:41 < R2COM> forgot command
2021-05-20T00:09:43 < R2COM> wrong window
2021-05-20T00:10:28 < Steffann> Soon freenode will be deader than bsd 
2021-05-20T00:11:27 < R2COM> i dont think bsd is dead, netflix runs on it, just one of many
2021-05-20T00:11:33 < R2COM> +PS4,5 etc
2021-05-20T00:12:16 < Steffann> I'm just quoting dongs_  since he left to telegram
2021-05-20T00:12:23 < Steffann> Fled*
2021-05-20T00:12:51 < R2COM> who the fuck would flee to a messenger which is controlled by FSB
2021-05-20T00:12:58 < qyx> a poor soul
2021-05-20T00:17:12 < bitmask> not perfect but not bad: https://i.imgur.com/uIWsoBE.png
2021-05-20T00:18:36 < qyx> whats that
2021-05-20T00:18:42 < qyx> a vaccine freezer?
2021-05-20T00:18:53 < bitmask> cloud chamber
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2021-05-20T00:20:28 < englishman> implying freenode isn't controlled by the king of Korea?
2021-05-20T00:21:27 < qyx> mr Lee?
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2021-05-20T00:24:03 < Laurenceb17> keeeekkkkk
2021-05-20T00:24:13 < R2COM> so I test drove that electric mustang 
2021-05-20T00:24:16 < Laurenceb17> >everyone has to wear a mask outside in France
2021-05-20T00:24:20 < R2COM> its amazing...
2021-05-20T00:24:20 < Laurenceb17> enjoy ur freedumz
2021-05-20T00:24:33 < Laurenceb17> France went full retard
2021-05-20T00:24:47 < R2COM> not just france, there are many countries which have such rule
2021-05-20T00:24:50 < Laurenceb17> >wearing a mask
2021-05-20T00:24:53 < Laurenceb17> >outside
2021-05-20T00:25:00 < Laurenceb17> my orbital sides
2021-05-20T00:25:02 < R2COM> its like requirement to walk with condom on under pants not to get aids
2021-05-20T00:25:04 < englishman> lol that electric Mustangs is so dumb, my pal bought the AWD model
2021-05-20T00:25:08 < Laurenceb17> lolll R2COM
2021-05-20T00:25:12 < Laurenceb17> nice one
2021-05-20T00:25:27 < englishman> slower,shorter range, charges slower, no autopilot, more expensive
2021-05-20T00:40:13 < ventyl> let's hope he won't die burning inside
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2021-05-20T01:17:04 < karlp> ok, still hot for vapour phase, but no longer hot for the imdes model.
2021-05-20T01:17:49 < karlp> current plan is a cheap china preheater, which with existinghot air will be sufficient forbasic stuff, and also get maybe a controleo3 and a cheap oven to modify later as time permits.
2021-05-20T01:19:31 < karlp> was kinda looking at this: https://uk.beta-layout.com/estore/order_product_details.html?wg=1&p=719 but think for the proto assembly volumes, just our existing ghetto stenciling is ok.
2021-05-20T01:23:12 < qyx> how many protos are you doing?
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2021-05-20T01:37:02 < bitmask> whats the easiest way to mark screw holes in a panel  for drilling? I'm between using a piece of paper to poke through or mark and then i'll have the pattern to drill through. or to use screws/set screws with a way to mark the panel on the other side
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2021-05-20T02:33:39 < Ultrasauce> bitmask: printed template and centre punch
2021-05-20T02:33:59 < bitmask> k
2021-05-20T02:35:01 < Ultrasauce> or if it's complicated enough to warrant the extra effort, glue the template on
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2021-05-20T06:10:32 < R2COM> https://symbiflow.github.io/
2021-05-20T06:10:38 < R2COM> is that shit even real or its some bs fuckery
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2021-05-20T06:52:13 < jpa-> qyx: 6 EUR shipping indeed and it is nominally sold by TI's german subsidiary so i expect no customs; packages haven't arrived yet and DHL tracking shows it will take until next week
2021-05-20T06:54:07 < jpa-> R2COM: well it is a frontend / collection of a bunch of open-source FPGA tools that have existed for years already
2021-05-20T06:55:08 < R2COM> i see that they are only supporting few afro devices
2021-05-20T06:55:13 < R2COM> no serious chips
2021-05-20T06:55:35 < jpa-> yeah, ice40 is the best supported one
2021-05-20T06:55:51 < R2COM> so...until the manufacturer *opens* his source, nothing gonna happen on that front
2021-05-20T06:55:59 < R2COM> its not "gcc" of fpgas...it cant be
2021-05-20T06:56:13 < R2COM> cuz gcc is not dependent on proprietary hardware, but fpga tools do
2021-05-20T06:56:26 < jpa-> how so? all those that are supported were done by reverse engineering
2021-05-20T06:56:38 < R2COM> its not a pro way to go
2021-05-20T06:57:05 < antto> the pro way is to surrend0r to the vend0r
2021-05-20T06:57:06 < R2COM> not serious in other words
2021-05-20T06:57:10 < jpa-> sure - and they'll probably never support all the encryption & DRM stuff
2021-05-20T06:57:35 < jpa-> but i'm not sure GCC is the pro way either, isn't keil etc. the pro way?
2021-05-20T06:57:43 < R2COM> so if someone has project which needs heavy fpga, he can use lunix or win10
2021-05-20T06:58:11 < aandrew> R2COM: that's not true
2021-05-20T06:58:13 < R2COM> and run proprietary tools
2021-05-20T06:58:21 < R2COM> on above OS'es
2021-05-20T06:58:32 < aandrew> VHDL/Verilog are able to generate netlists for pretty much anything
2021-05-20T06:58:52 < Xogium> so, since freenode is now ead, has there been any talk of going to another irc network ?
2021-05-20T06:58:54 < R2COM> how the fuck you do full map/PAR process for some 7 series fpga?
2021-05-20T06:58:54 < aandrew> it's the P&R and timing analysis that is the real trick, and that's the bit that everyone holds pretty close to their chest
2021-05-20T06:58:56 < Xogium> *dead
2021-05-20T06:58:58 < R2COM> with free tools?
2021-05-20T06:59:10 < R2COM> well thats what im talking about
2021-05-20T06:59:12 < aandrew> R2COM: you don't, at least not at this point
2021-05-20T06:59:16 < jpa-> i mostly code for intel FPGAs, but i use open source tools for the simulation & verification stage because quartus & modelsim are so annoying; then i just run the command line quartus to synthetize
2021-05-20T06:59:17 < R2COM> without that theres no dev done
2021-05-20T06:59:26 < aandrew> "gcc for FPGA" is the synthesis side though, not the mapping/routing
2021-05-20T06:59:29 < aandrew> at least that's how I see it
2021-05-20T06:59:53 < R2COM> i know, i just abbreviated all process
2021-05-20T06:59:54 < aandrew> I use GHDL for dicking around with ideas
2021-05-20T07:00:00 < R2COM> with fpgas you need all stuff 
2021-05-20T07:00:10 < aandrew> it's kind of neat to build executables that run on your computer from VHDL
2021-05-20T07:00:21 < jpa-> so 90% of my dev time i could spend without ever touching quartus, and even when i do, putting it to virtual machine or whatever would be quite easy if needed
2021-05-20T07:00:38 < R2COM> the thing is...at a point where the backend (map/par) still has to be done with proprietary software... what is point of adding more pain for synthesiz half ass supported
2021-05-20T07:00:49 < Xogium> the entire freenode staff is gone and has been replaced with a malicious third party, so…
2021-05-20T07:01:10 < R2COM> I do command line only flow with xilinx and modelsim tools for work stuff
2021-05-20T07:01:20 < R2COM> so...point is, if someone pays for stuff, its there already
2021-05-20T07:01:21 < R2COM> but
2021-05-20T07:01:37 < jpa-> Xogium: how do you determine "malicious"?
2021-05-20T07:01:37 < R2COM> if not...then splitting and trying to get synthesiz with free stuff making no sense
2021-05-20T07:01:41 < R2COM> kinda like...adding more work
2021-05-20T07:01:51 < Xogium> jpa-: andrew lee, should be good enough
2021-05-20T07:01:59 < Xogium> jpa-: bsides that…
2021-05-20T07:02:09 < R2COM> if i can get complete flow from synth to par/bitgen done with OSS and with latest devices supported...that would be different story
2021-05-20T07:02:17 < Xogium> there are a ton of resignation letters around, tons of logs
2021-05-20T07:02:38 < R2COM> then it would be worth spending time on getting all that flow configured etc
2021-05-20T07:02:57 < jpa-> R2COM: maybe one day you will, once manufacturers realize the potential of open source synthetesis flow, like they have realized the potential of GCC
2021-05-20T07:03:34 < R2COM> people in big corps are mostly stupid fucks
2021-05-20T07:03:38 < Xogium> there was even a lwn article about this
2021-05-20T07:04:04 < jpa-> i'd expect lattice to be first, because their devices already have good support & IIRC they license their toolchain from 3rd party anyway
2021-05-20T07:04:05 < R2COM> and most such stuff is being decied upon marketing and sales depts witin corp who make shit decisions and dont give shit
2021-05-20T07:04:54 < R2COM> until xilinx & intel opens up their architecture and provide docs, nothing happens
2021-05-20T07:04:57 < jpa-> Xogium: there has been a ton of drama around freenode over the years anyway
2021-05-20T07:05:02 < jpa-> never mattered for me
2021-05-20T07:05:21 < Xogium> yes but this time its done
2021-05-20T07:05:40 < Xogium> https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
2021-05-20T07:05:44 < jpa-> R2COM: oh, but a *lot* has happened already; not all FPGA stuff is about the biggest devices, lattice's chips have a lot of use in the particular areas they are suitable for
2021-05-20T07:06:23 < R2COM> yeah but... i dont think its gonna move anywhere beyond that
2021-05-20T07:06:35 < jpa-> maybe, but it is already useful as is
2021-05-20T07:06:38 < Xogium> https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409
2021-05-20T07:06:40 < R2COM> other than "cpld" like capability devices from lattice
2021-05-20T07:07:05 < jpa-> myself i expect that lattice will have a lot of expansion in the FPGA market in the coming years
2021-05-20T07:07:34 < Ultrasauce> Xogium: yeah we're ready on the libera side, just gonna wait till steffy wakes up rather than do anything unilateral
2021-05-20T07:07:43 < jpa-> ECP5 is already quite good
2021-05-20T07:07:57 < Xogium> Ultrasauce: that's very good to hear
2021-05-20T07:08:24 < Xogium> I'm only staying to urge communities and projects to move away for today, and then I will destroy my account
2021-05-20T07:08:58 < jpa-> i wonder what people fear that will happen with freenode? they'll steal our public chats?
2021-05-20T07:09:06 < R2COM> ECP5 has full flow support with OSS from synth to bitgen?
2021-05-20T07:09:14 < jpa-> R2COM: yeah
2021-05-20T07:09:18 < Ultrasauce> our precious innovations are in danger
2021-05-20T07:09:29 < R2COM> irc is getting old
2021-05-20T07:09:33 < Xogium> this one is a very nice letter, possibly the one I liked the most in the explanations
2021-05-20T07:09:36 < Xogium> https://www.kline.sh/
2021-05-20T07:09:43 < R2COM> i was into discord, but now im getting away from it after its "liberal" moves
2021-05-20T07:09:50 < R2COM> teamspeak forever
2021-05-20T07:10:04 < R2COM> wonder if there are some better alternatives maybe
2021-05-20T07:10:16 < R2COM> or maybe irc still be there...
2021-05-20T07:10:17 < Xogium> I'll stick to irc, thanks :p
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2021-05-20T07:12:09 < R2COM> ok ecp5 is something
2021-05-20T07:13:41 < R2COM> but the thing is... it seems that whatever ecp5 can do, any of the lower end xilinx device supported by vivado webpack can do as well
2021-05-20T07:13:58 < R2COM> just by giving a rough surface look
2021-05-20T07:14:02 < R2COM> so...
2021-05-20T07:14:05 < R2COM> anyway
2021-05-20T07:14:54 < jpa-> R2COM: can they do it at same cost & power usage?
2021-05-20T07:15:22 < R2COM> havent compared but cost might not be that significant
2021-05-20T07:15:28 < R2COM> not sure
2021-05-20T07:17:11 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/xilinx-inc/XC7S15-1CSGA225C/9380260  and  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/LFE5U-12F-6BG256C/9553915   seem roughly comparable, xilinx one is 3x more expensive
2021-05-20T07:17:53 < Xogium> andrew lee took over some irc networks in the past, the same way he took over freenode
2021-05-20T07:18:04 < R2COM> all ECP5 chips sypported by ful loss flow?
2021-05-20T07:18:07 < Xogium> clearly hostile
2021-05-20T07:18:10 < R2COM> or just some
2021-05-20T07:18:17 < R2COM> also, all features?
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2021-05-20T07:20:03 < R2COM> um
2021-05-20T07:20:48 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Quit: Quitt]
2021-05-20T07:22:14 < jpa-> https://github.com/YosysHQ/prjtrellis   looks like at least automatic DSP inference is still missing
2021-05-20T07:23:10 < Ultrasauce> last i heard bram inference was not awesome either
2021-05-20T07:23:14 < Ultrasauce> still very promising stuff
2021-05-20T07:23:27 < jpa-> and i wouldn't be surprised if it optimizes worse than vendor tools
2021-05-20T07:24:02 < R2COM> so I guess... i'd not touch that shit for now, just not worth my time
2021-05-20T07:24:18 < R2COM> even if i used lattice i'd use their "light" version which supports ecp5 
2021-05-20T07:24:22 < R2COM> on win10 setup
2021-05-20T07:31:37 < Xogium> and the spam begins
2021-05-20T07:31:52 < Xogium> even in pm
2021-05-20T07:31:57 < Xogium> cool
2021-05-20T07:32:35 < Xogium> Ultrasauce: anyway, I guess this chan will have the same name on libera ?
2021-05-20T07:32:45 < Ultrasauce> yes
2021-05-20T07:32:53 < Xogium> awesomee
2021-05-20T07:33:01 < Xogium> *awesome even
2021-05-20T08:37:19 < zyp> jpa-, the «current status» part in the readme haven't been updated for two-three years, so it's not all that current anymore
2021-05-20T08:37:30 < zyp> I believe at least some of the DSP inference have been in place for a while
2021-05-20T08:38:04 < jpa-> heh, classic :)
2021-05-20T08:42:27 < R2COM> is there some nice relatively minimalistic pdf viewer with annotation capability for unix?
2021-05-20T08:42:44 < antto> annotation?
2021-05-20T08:42:56 < antto> nice and minimal -> qpdfview
2021-05-20T08:44:07 < jpa-> mupdf has annotation stuff, the user interface is quite keyboard-heavy though
2021-05-20T08:44:24 < R2COM> theres no annotation stuff
2021-05-20T08:44:26 < R2COM> its just viewer
2021-05-20T08:44:38 < effractur> define annotation
2021-05-20T08:44:49 < effractur> as in like pdf annotation or just editing the pdf
2021-05-20T08:44:53 < R2COM> can highlight, underline, type text, draw lines shapes etc
2021-05-20T08:46:55 < Ultrasauce> okular
2021-05-20T08:47:12 < R2COM> >relatively minimalistic
2021-05-20T08:47:18 < R2COM> okular has huge kde dependency
2021-05-20T08:47:26 < R2COM> like 1 Gig of kde shit will be installed
2021-05-20T08:50:16 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/mupdf_annotation.png   https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/qpdfview_annotation.png   
2021-05-20T08:50:22 < R2COM> so as of now ill just use zathura (vim-like pdf viewer only) and xournal (for annotating)
2021-05-20T08:50:33 < R2COM> hm
2021-05-20T08:50:58 < jpa-> (mupdf-gl that is, apparently the legacy mupdf frontend does not have the annotation menu)
2021-05-20T08:51:25 < R2COM> thats proly what i had
2021-05-20T08:54:57 < R2COM> oh qpdfview doesnt view bookmarks
2021-05-20T08:55:01 < R2COM> does not detect them i mean
2021-05-20T08:55:05 < R2COM> for whatever reason
2021-05-20T08:56:40 < R2COM> uh anyway
2021-05-20T08:57:14 < R2COM> foxit is what I always use on win10
2021-05-20T08:57:25 < R2COM> but it would require linuxulator if one runs it on freebsd...
2021-05-20T09:01:11 < R2COM> ops nvm
2021-05-20T09:01:17 < R2COM> qpdfview sees outlines OK
2021-05-20T09:01:18 < R2COM> but 
2021-05-20T09:01:19 < R2COM> errr
2021-05-20T09:01:23 < R2COM> where is annotation
2021-05-20T09:01:47 < jpa-> edit -> add annotation
2021-05-20T09:02:00 < R2COM> well
2021-05-20T09:02:05 < R2COM> then rectangle of selection appears
2021-05-20T09:02:09 < R2COM> but how to draw?
2021-05-20T09:02:53 < R2COM> ah i see
2021-05-20T09:02:54 < R2COM> lol
2021-05-20T09:02:58 < R2COM> well...
2021-05-20T09:03:35 < R2COM> can qpdfview draw random lines or pen tool?
2021-05-20T09:03:39 < R2COM> dont see it
2021-05-20T09:04:31 < effractur> So ther eis a difference between drawing lines and adding line annotations
2021-05-20T09:04:35 < effractur> they are seperate things
2021-05-20T09:04:54 < R2COM> well...
2021-05-20T09:05:04 < R2COM> yeah.. depending on how you define it
2021-05-20T09:05:13 < R2COM> drawing on top of some document is actually "annotating"
2021-05-20T09:05:16 < R2COM> but fine
2021-05-20T09:05:25 < R2COM> qpdfview actually might be kinda OK for now
2021-05-20T09:05:26 < effractur> no as in how it is actually stored in the pdf i mean
2021-05-20T09:05:39 < R2COM> um ok
2021-05-20T09:05:54 < R2COM> if they added ability to draw basic shapes and lines that would be great
2021-05-20T09:05:55 < R2COM> but fine
2021-05-20T09:12:40 < jpa-> yeah, qpdfview seems to have only text
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2021-05-20T10:56:50 < Steffann> Did you write a farewell irc song yet, antto  ?
2021-05-20T10:57:36 < jly> bloody hell mate
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2021-05-20T11:17:25 < Steffann> Gooday sir jly 
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2021-05-20T14:01:46  * Laurenceb needs a low ESR capacitor
2021-05-20T14:01:58 < Laurenceb> 220uF, 100V, <50mohm ESR
2021-05-20T14:02:09 < Laurenceb> and only 22mm height available
2021-05-20T14:02:13 < Laurenceb> is this doable?
2021-05-20T14:03:18 < kakium69> if height is the restriction
2021-05-20T14:03:29 < kakium69> just parallel caps
2021-05-20T14:04:55 < Laurenceb> yeah but I'd rather not have >4
2021-05-20T14:05:04 < Laurenceb> also it ideally should be SMD
2021-05-20T14:05:23 < kakium69> so 4x is the another restriction
2021-05-20T14:07:27 < kakium69> electrolytic or polymer?
2021-05-20T14:07:44 < Laurenceb> doesnt matter
2021-05-20T14:07:59 < kakium69> polymer
2021-05-20T14:09:21 < kakium69> 27uF is the largest polymer smd at >=100VDC
2021-05-20T14:09:26 < kakium69> lets see electrolytic
2021-05-20T14:13:41 < kakium69> and the answer is no
2021-05-20T14:14:25 < mawk> why are you not on the chanz Laurenceb 
2021-05-20T14:14:28 < mawk> are you actually working?
2021-05-20T14:14:35 < mawk> are you afraid your boss is on irc so you ask work questions
2021-05-20T14:14:37 < kakium69> ESR seems to be the problem
2021-05-20T14:14:42 < kakium69> let's see mlcc
2021-05-20T14:15:05 < mawk> what do you need it for Laurenceb 
2021-05-20T14:15:08 < mawk> the ca
2021-05-20T14:15:10 < mawk> p
2021-05-20T14:15:48 < Laurenceb> a power supply
2021-05-20T14:16:02 < Laurenceb> kakium69: yeah I cant find a way to meet the ESR spec
2021-05-20T14:16:25 < kakium69> it's seems to be a job for MLCC
2021-05-20T14:16:29 < Laurenceb> heh
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2021-05-20T14:16:30 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-05-20T14:16:39 < Laurenceb> lets see how well this could work
2021-05-20T14:16:56 < mawk> how are other power supplies doing Laurenceb 
2021-05-20T14:17:56 < kakium69> why you need 100VDC 220uF at 50mOhm?
2021-05-20T14:17:57 < Laurenceb> AFK107M2AP44T
2021-05-20T14:18:11 < Laurenceb> but there is only 23 in stock at mouser
2021-05-20T14:18:33 < Laurenceb> kakium69: this is to meet specs for supply spikes and stuff
2021-05-20T14:19:13 < mawk> englishman: put +i mode on the fake ##stm32 channel on libera plz
2021-05-20T14:19:24 < mawk> or put in /topic "the one and only true channel is situated on freenode"
2021-05-20T14:19:26 < Laurenceb> I will see how practical MLCC is
2021-05-20T14:19:32 < Laurenceb> >fake
2021-05-20T14:19:49 < kakium69> not at all Laurenceb
2021-05-20T14:20:03 < kakium69> but it might be that you need 50pcs of mlcc
2021-05-20T14:20:39 < kakium69> what is the voltage btw?
2021-05-20T14:20:50 < Steffann> 5 megavolts 
2021-05-20T14:21:00 < kakium69> over 9000
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2021-05-20T14:21:28 < Laurenceb> 100V peak
2021-05-20T14:21:36 < Laurenceb> operating voltage is only 24V
2021-05-20T14:21:54 < Laurenceb> so stuff that says "100V surge" is ok
2021-05-20T14:21:59 < kakium69> so derating is not an issue
2021-05-20T14:22:02 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-20T14:27:18 < Laurenceb> hmm this is gunna cost about $12
2021-05-20T14:27:19 < kakium69> x7r?
2021-05-20T14:27:29 < Laurenceb> would probably be ok
2021-05-20T14:30:33 < Laurenceb> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tdk-corporation/CKG57NX7R1H476M500JH/13672020
2021-05-20T14:30:35 < Laurenceb> expensive
2021-05-20T14:34:03 < kakium69> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/avx-corporation/22201C106KAT2A/9748449
2021-05-20T14:34:34 < Steffann> You're up early kakium69 . Are you alright?
2021-05-20T14:34:36 < kakium69> same voltage rating available as 1825
2021-05-20T14:34:40 < kakium69> Steffann: no
2021-05-20T14:35:25 < Steffann> Awh, covidded?
2021-05-20T14:35:36 < kakium69> no
2021-05-20T14:40:34 < englishman> mawk: noone is using liberia, so i dont see the problem with having a meme channel
2021-05-20T14:41:07 < englishman> freenode just got rid of a bunch of old curmudgeon opers
2021-05-20T14:41:17 < englishman> this is a good thing.
2021-05-20T14:41:27 < mawk> englishman: yeah but what if people start going there
2021-05-20T14:41:33 < mawk> then we have two stm32 instead of one
2021-05-20T14:41:43 < englishman> then we can point them to #msp430
2021-05-20T14:41:46 < mawk> lol
2021-05-20T14:41:54 < englishman> cuz noone is developing stm32 in 2021
2021-05-20T14:41:59 < mawk> :(
2021-05-20T14:42:01 < mawk> I am
2021-05-20T14:42:16 < englishman> using chips you bought in 2020
2021-05-20T14:42:50 < kakium69> I never have
2021-05-20T14:44:17 < kakium69> Laurenceb: should the rail have also lower capacitance caps?
2021-05-20T14:45:00 < kakium69> do you have reference desing?
2021-05-20T14:47:35 < Steffann> Here some music for kakium69 https://youtu.be/PaLhYTjZoOE
2021-05-20T14:48:07 < kakium69> sounds like laurence musics
2021-05-20T14:48:19 < Laurenceb> kakium69: yeah I have reference design, it specs <50mohm, >220uF caps
2021-05-20T14:48:39 < kakium69> nice
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2021-05-20T15:09:44 < Laurenceb> https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Taiyo-Yuden/UMK325C7106MM-T?qs=PzICbMaShUcAIYJBjhxLIg%3D%3D
2021-05-20T15:09:46 < Laurenceb> hah
2021-05-20T15:09:52 < Laurenceb>  ukp3.5/unit
2021-05-20T15:13:49 < kakium69> x7s is cheaper
2021-05-20T15:13:53 < kakium69> and smaller
2021-05-20T15:14:11 < kakium69> ah and it's 50vdc too
2021-05-20T15:15:00 < kakium69> these MLCCs are fun to questimate ESR for
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2021-05-20T17:33:49 < mawk>  /!\ RED ALERT /!\
2021-05-20T17:33:55 < mawk> ST wants to buy nordic
2021-05-20T17:36:54 < Steffann> Lies
2021-05-20T17:37:00 < Steffann> Sores mawk, sores
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2021-05-20T18:04:20 < mawk> it's not lies Steffann 
2021-05-20T18:04:23 < mawk> it's the bare truth
2021-05-20T18:04:32 < mawk> I saw it in my google news feed
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2021-05-20T18:04:53 < mawk> Steffann: https://investir.lesechos.fr/actions/actualites/stmicroelectronics-envisagerait-le-rachat-du-norvegien-nordic-semiconductor-1963760.php
2021-05-20T18:04:58 < mawk> Steffann: /nick Steffanx
2021-05-20T18:05:05 < mawk> wait why are there two of you
2021-05-20T18:05:11 < mawk> kill the other one and take his nick
2021-05-20T18:05:20 < Steffann> Yes, no 
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2021-05-20T18:05:25 < mawk> the Milano Finanza journal is the primary source
2021-05-20T18:05:31 < mawk> ask BrainDamage to translate
2021-05-20T18:05:35 < mawk> when he's here
2021-05-20T18:05:47 < Steffanx> Now
2021-05-20T18:05:59 < Steffann> Oh when bd is here
2021-05-20T18:06:00 < Steffann> Nah
2021-05-20T18:06:05 < Steffann> Cto says no
2021-05-20T18:06:14 < mawk> CTO is lying
2021-05-20T18:06:24 < mawk> they are in talks for ST to buy nordic
2021-05-20T18:06:27 < mawk> of course he says no
2021-05-20T18:06:29 < Steffann> This guy in libera chat says so
2021-05-20T18:06:35 < mawk> whattttttttttt
2021-05-20T18:06:38 < mawk> why are you talking there
2021-05-20T18:06:40 < mawk> quit that immediately
2021-05-20T18:06:45 < mawk> the guy is lying anyway
2021-05-20T18:06:48 < mawk> =========> https://investir.lesechos.fr/actions/actualites/stmicroelectronics-envisagerait-le-rachat-du-norvegien-nordic-semiconductor-1963760.php
2021-05-20T18:06:51 < mawk> read this
2021-05-20T18:07:10 < mawk> "the two parties are in talks and may announce a deal in a few moments"
2021-05-20T18:07:17 < mawk> see, that's pure truth
2021-05-20T18:07:41 < mawk> CTO is denying because both companies are public
2021-05-20T18:07:46 < mawk> ST in paris and nordic in oslo
2021-05-20T18:07:57 < mawk> they don't want to shake the market
2021-05-20T18:08:10 < mawk> or do an Elon and get slapped by the SEC
2021-05-20T18:08:24 < mawk> reuters is saying it too
2021-05-20T18:17:34 < t4nk_freenode> then it must be true :b
2021-05-20T18:31:17 < mawk> yes
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2021-05-20T18:52:15 < englishman> jpa-: these hammond EMI boxes you found say MADE IN CANADA on them
2021-05-20T18:52:20 < englishman> i thought it was interesting
2021-05-20T18:54:21 < Mangy_Dog> i need a reminder of how to do some "simple" bitwise.  I want to grab just 1 bit from a byte. As im doing a loop to take bits from two bytes and place them into a boolean array.
2021-05-20T18:55:03 < Mangy_Dog> I only want the 1 bit nothing before that
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2021-05-20T18:55:26 < englishman> AND it with your bitmask?
2021-05-20T18:55:46 < englishman> or on stm32 you can use bitbanding
2021-05-20T18:56:21 < Mangy_Dog> array[i]= (0 | byteone<<(8-i)) 
2021-05-20T18:56:33 < Mangy_Dog> i being the number for the loop
2021-05-20T18:56:47 < Mangy_Dog> have i got that totally wrong?
2021-05-20T18:57:05 < Laurenceb> sheeet now I have to design the high voltage variant of this power supply
2021-05-20T18:57:08 < Laurenceb> not so easy
2021-05-20T18:57:27 < Laurenceb> up to 220V in, and I need 66uF of low ESR capacitance
2021-05-20T18:57:33 < Laurenceb> <100m ohm
2021-05-20T18:57:42 < Mangy_Dog> i usually highly avoid HV
2021-05-20T18:57:51 < Mangy_Dog> as i really dont know what im doing there
2021-05-20T19:02:28 < mawk> x & (1<<i)
2021-05-20T19:02:53 < mawk> wrap in !! to have it between 0 and 1
2021-05-20T19:03:27 < Mangy_Dog> what do you mean wrap in?
2021-05-20T19:03:37 < mawk> !!(x & (1 << i))
2021-05-20T19:03:42 < mawk> this gets the ith bit
2021-05-20T19:04:51 < Mangy_Dog> what does 1 represent?
2021-05-20T19:04:58 < mawk> it's a 1
2021-05-20T19:04:59 < Mangy_Dog> byteOne varible?
2021-05-20T19:05:02 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2021-05-20T19:05:09 < mawk> 1<<i is pow(2, i)
2021-05-20T19:05:14 < mawk> same thing
2021-05-20T19:05:55 < Mangy_Dog> sorry my brain is turning to mush
2021-05-20T19:06:08 < mawk> you have a variable like 0b101010
2021-05-20T19:06:12 < mawk> and you want the 6th bit
2021-05-20T19:06:18 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-05-20T19:06:34 < Mangy_Dog> well 8 bits but yes
2021-05-20T19:06:43 < mawk> so you AND it with 0b00100000
2021-05-20T19:07:00 < mawk> which is 2^5
2021-05-20T19:07:11 < mawk> index is 0-based, 6th bit is actually 5th bit
2021-05-20T19:07:15 < mawk> there's a 0th bit
2021-05-20T19:07:21 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2021-05-20T19:07:37 < mawk> anyway, 0b00100000 is 2^5, and also 1<<5
2021-05-20T19:07:50 < mawk> 1<<5 is 0b00000001 shifted to the left 5 times
2021-05-20T19:08:29 < mawk> so 0b101010 & 0b00100000 = 0b101010 & (1 << 5)
2021-05-20T19:08:44 < mawk> and it's equal to 0b00100000
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2021-05-20T19:08:55 < mawk> now if you want just a 0 or a 1, you add a !!
2021-05-20T19:09:03 < mawk> !!x is 0 if x is 0, 1 otherwise
2021-05-20T19:09:42 < Mangy_Dog> im sorry im struggling to follow you, maybe because its getting on in the day
2021-05-20T19:10:02 < mawk> at which step are you lost
2021-05-20T19:10:32 < Mangy_Dog> array[i] !! byteOne<< (8-i);
2021-05-20T19:11:05 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2021-05-20T19:11:06 < mawk> no no
2021-05-20T19:11:16 < mawk> what do you want to do
2021-05-20T19:11:24 < mawk> what is byteOne
2021-05-20T19:11:35 < Mangy_Dog> i want to take the 8 bits from a byte and break them into an array of bools
2021-05-20T19:11:47 < Mangy_Dog> byteOne is representing the byte im reading from
2021-05-20T19:11:51 < mawk> ah
2021-05-20T19:12:12 < mawk> array[i] = !!(byteOne & (1 << i))
2021-05-20T19:12:23 < mawk> or (7-i) instead of i if you want it reversed
2021-05-20T19:12:32 < Mangy_Dog> im actually reading 2 bytes in the project but for the exsample just want to talk about 1 to get the bitwise right :D
2021-05-20T19:12:52 < Mangy_Dog> yeah im doing from top byte in order of first
2021-05-20T19:13:07 < Mangy_Dog> its just pushing button states being read by one mcu over to another over serial
2021-05-20T19:13:10 < mawk> then: array[i] = !!(byteOne & (1 << (7 - i)))
2021-05-20T19:13:35 < mawk> bits go from 0th to 7th
2021-05-20T19:13:37 < mawk> 8 total
2021-05-20T19:13:49 < Mangy_Dog> nosd
2021-05-20T19:13:49 < Mangy_Dog> nods
2021-05-20T19:13:59 < Mangy_Dog> but im ordering my buttons as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
2021-05-20T19:14:10 < mawk> what do you mean
2021-05-20T19:14:14 < Mangy_Dog> in 0b 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
2021-05-20T19:14:14 < mawk> arrays are 0 based
2021-05-20T19:14:21 < Mangy_Dog> that doesnt matter
2021-05-20T19:14:29 < mawk> the byte has no 8th bit
2021-05-20T19:14:30 < Mangy_Dog> its just button statuses
2021-05-20T19:14:36 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-05-20T19:14:42 < Mangy_Dog> those are button numbers
2021-05-20T19:14:47 < Mangy_Dog> first second third forth
2021-05-20T19:14:54 < Mangy_Dog> but its in order of top to bottom
2021-05-20T19:15:00 < Mangy_Dog> so 8th bit is button 1
2021-05-20T19:15:07 < mawk> there's no 8th bit
2021-05-20T19:15:13 < mawk> it goes from 0 to 7
2021-05-20T19:15:35 < mawk> what goes 1<<HERE must be between 0 and 7
2021-05-20T19:15:48 < Mangy_Dog> yes its 0-7 but its still the 8th bit
2021-05-20T19:15:52 < Mangy_Dog> thats english language
2021-05-20T19:16:01 < Mangy_Dog> first second third forth
2021-05-20T19:16:05 < Mangy_Dog> ... 8th
2021-05-20T19:16:10 < mawk> zeroth first second
2021-05-20T19:16:18 < Mangy_Dog> 0 is first
2021-05-20T19:16:22 < mawk> minusoneth
2021-05-20T19:16:23 < Steffann> Mawkrd 
2021-05-20T19:16:27 < mawk> :(
2021-05-20T19:17:54 < Mangy_Dog> tbh.... 
2021-05-20T19:17:55 < mawk> define a macro Mangy_Dog 
2021-05-20T19:17:59 < mawk> to make it easier
2021-05-20T19:18:04 < mawk> GET_BIT
2021-05-20T19:18:24 < Mangy_Dog> this last few months ive started to wonder if im having some kind of nurological thing like early onset dementia
2021-05-20T19:18:30 < mawk> why
2021-05-20T19:18:47 < Mangy_Dog> while ive not been programming full time lately... im forgetting tons and struggling with simpler tasks as ive been doing it again
2021-05-20T19:19:17 < mawk> that's normal don't worry
2021-05-20T19:21:02 < Mangy_Dog> another off topic question... while i can see how many lines in each header, is there a way to see total line count for entire program?
2021-05-20T19:21:05 < Mangy_Dog> in eclipse
2021-05-20T19:25:04 < mawk> use commandline
2021-05-20T19:25:57  * Laurenceb is raging
2021-05-20T19:25:59 < Laurenceb> https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/212/KEM_A4008_ESG-1101971.pdf
2021-05-20T19:26:06 < Laurenceb> shitty ~1 ohm ESR
2021-05-20T19:26:22 < mawk> then put 20 of them in parallel Laurenceb 
2021-05-20T19:26:23 < Laurenceb> polymer electrolytic looks nice, but doesnt go to high voltage
2021-05-20T19:26:25 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-05-20T19:26:37 < mawk> and you get 50mΩ
2021-05-20T19:26:47 < Laurenceb> I have like 1 square inch of pcb
2021-05-20T19:26:52 < mawk> a
2021-05-20T19:27:18 < Laurenceb> theres got to be a solution to this...
2021-05-20T19:27:39 < Laurenceb> tantalum doesnt go to high voltage
2021-05-20T19:27:53 < Laurenceb> maybe polymer film? It's in my washing machines power supply
2021-05-20T19:28:18 < englishman> I'm inventing a new word
2021-05-20T19:28:23 < englishman> it's Mawkward
2021-05-20T19:28:30 < mawk> :(((
2021-05-20T19:28:35 < englishman> that's where mawk says something and the entire chan goes silent
2021-05-20T19:28:43 < mawk> that never happens
2021-05-20T19:29:07 < mawk> right??
2021-05-20T19:29:14 < mawk> say something Steffanx 
2021-05-20T19:30:01 < Mangy_Dog> i just added up all the line numbers in my files ive written... for this tricorder project ive written 5152 lines of my own code D: and theres still plenty more to do. Though could throw out a hundred or two lines of white space and comments
2021-05-20T19:30:27 < mawk> write a regex to filter that
2021-05-20T19:32:52 < Steffanx> Lol englishman @ mawkard
2021-05-20T19:32:59 < mawk> lies
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2021-05-20T19:33:52 < mawk> ur an arrtist upgrdman ?
2021-05-20T19:34:10 < Steffann> He's a blender
2021-05-20T19:35:23 < upgrdman> haha, not really. when i first started IRCing, maybe ~2000, i was mainly in the blender irc channel. it was a fun hobby, until i realized that ~all artists end up poor. but i was offered that netmask, accept it, and never bothered to change it :)
2021-05-20T19:36:37 < mawk> I see
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2021-05-20T19:51:50  * antto is a fartist
2021-05-20T19:51:56  * antto farts
2021-05-20T19:55:05 < Steffann> Ty antto 
2021-05-20T19:55:22 < Steffann> You won't smell it anyway
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2021-05-20T19:55:35 < antto> yeah :/
2021-05-20T19:55:50 < antto> i'm like the deaf composer
2021-05-20T19:56:02 < antto> the blind painter
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2021-05-20T19:57:03 < antto> the offline loirens
2021-05-20T19:57:09 < t4nk_freenode> the mute singer
2021-05-20T20:00:27 < karlp> unexpected: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/IjfHn.png
2021-05-20T20:00:39 < karlp> qyx: protos from 1 tomaybe 3-5...
2021-05-20T20:01:06 < karlp> but goal is to verify hardware, not make demo units, so want "less fuckery, more successery"
2021-05-20T20:03:04 < Laurenceb> damn polymer film caps are really good
2021-05-20T20:03:12 < Laurenceb> no wonder they are in my machine machine
2021-05-20T20:03:15 < antto> don't sniff them
2021-05-20T20:03:16 < Laurenceb> *washing
2021-05-20T20:03:28 < Laurenceb> pity they are so large
2021-05-20T20:03:35 < Laurenceb> ESR/cap/Voltage is really good
2021-05-20T20:03:48 < antto> wut'cha doing with them caps tho?
2021-05-20T20:04:10 < Laurenceb> making a high power high voltage power supply that has to meet a ton of standards
2021-05-20T20:04:12 < antto> are you on some quest for efficiency?
2021-05-20T20:04:17 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-05-20T20:04:23 < antto> aww
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2021-05-20T20:04:41 < antto> put moar caps to further reduce the ESR
2021-05-20T20:05:03 < Laurenceb> I have limited space and budget
2021-05-20T20:05:32 < antto> eww, limitations
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2021-05-20T20:09:35 < Laurenceb> https://content.kemet.com/datasheets/KEM_F3125_C4AQ_M.pdf
2021-05-20T20:09:55 < Laurenceb> >1.5VDC for 10 times in lifetime
2021-05-20T20:09:58 < Laurenceb> interdasting
2021-05-20T20:11:10 < Laurenceb> I can use a much lower voltage polymer film cap
2021-05-20T20:11:33 < Laurenceb> as there is a fuse and TVS that will blow in event of voltage spike
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2021-05-20T20:11:57 < Laurenceb> electrolytic isnt so forgiving
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2021-05-20T20:13:25 < Streaker> what's a polymer film cap? a capacitor with a polymer electrolyte or a capacitor with a polymer film (polyester, polypropylene etc) insulator?
2021-05-20T20:14:28 < karlp> Mangy_Dog: apt install sloccount && sloccount .
2021-05-20T20:14:45  * Mangy_Dog blinks?
2021-05-20T20:14:58 < karlp> source lines of code count...
2021-05-20T20:15:01 < Mangy_Dog> oh
2021-05-20T20:15:16 < Mangy_Dog> not tooooo worried about it right now
2021-05-20T20:15:29 < Mangy_Dog> though i nearly fell asleep in my chair just now thanks for the beep
2021-05-20T20:15:42 < Mangy_Dog> now i was trying to do the reverse of the bitwise i was doing earlier :/
2021-05-20T20:15:55 < Mangy_Dog> trying to place an array into 2 bytes
2021-05-20T20:16:00 < Mangy_Dog> array of bools
2021-05-20T20:16:28 < antto> did i hear bit fiddling?
2021-05-20T20:16:43 < Mangy_Dog> i dont know why i always struggle with bitwise
2021-05-20T20:17:03 < Mangy_Dog> tbh even mawks example. i simply cant follow it
2021-05-20T20:17:12 < antto> where is it?
2021-05-20T20:17:27 < Mangy_Dog> scroll up about an hour or so ago
2021-05-20T20:17:36 < antto> >:/
2021-05-20T20:17:46 < Mangy_Dog> it really isnt far
2021-05-20T20:17:56 < Mangy_Dog> its like 50 or 60 line up0
2021-05-20T20:18:38 < antto> saw it
2021-05-20T20:18:40 < Mangy_Dog> doorButts[i] = !!(one & (1 << (7 - i))); is what mawk said to use
2021-05-20T20:18:45 < Mangy_Dog> honestly... 
2021-05-20T20:18:48 < Mangy_Dog> i dont get it
2021-05-20T20:19:22 < antto> "i" is probably a counter going 0 to 7
2021-05-20T20:19:30 < Mangy_Dog> yes
2021-05-20T20:19:31 < Mangy_Dog> that i get
2021-05-20T20:19:32 < karlp> mawk is a maths wanker
2021-05-20T20:19:35 < Mangy_Dog> its part of a loop
2021-05-20T20:19:44 < karlp> so you might not always have any fucking desire to use any of his shit
2021-05-20T20:19:56 < Mangy_Dog> taking a byte of data and splitting it into a bunch of boolean arrays.
2021-05-20T20:20:04 < antto> so with 7-i, you are shifting 1 to make a.. bitmask for a single bit
2021-05-20T20:20:15 < Mangy_Dog> now im trying to MAKE the 2 bytes that hold the boolean arrays to be sent
2021-05-20T20:20:26 < antto> then you're logically-AND'ing that mask with whatever "one" is (probably a uint8_t)
2021-05-20T20:20:45 < antto> and then there's !! which should be logical not, twice
2021-05-20T20:20:54 < karlp> he helpfully decided on an ordering to the array tatyou  didn't specify, which makes it harder to follow
2021-05-20T20:21:13 < karlp> antto: the !! is to coerce it to a true boolean, so you get only 0 or 1 in each element, instead of 0 or the shifted bit...
2021-05-20T20:21:22 < antto> i know
2021-05-20T20:21:28 < antto> ;P~
2021-05-20T20:21:28 < karlp> it's again, beyond the stated specs, and only required for shitty old c89 world
2021-05-20T20:21:50 < Mangy_Dog> i cant tell if youre having a go at me or not :(
2021-05-20T20:22:04 < Mangy_Dog> im just saying i struggle to understand bitwise :/
2021-05-20T20:22:17 < Mangy_Dog> << >> i get its teh rest i flail at
2021-05-20T20:22:34 < aandrew> !! seems one of those little nerdy dick waving things
2021-05-20T20:22:45 < aandrew> like perl golf competitions
2021-05-20T20:23:37 < antto> Mangy_Dog, what do you not get?
2021-05-20T20:23:46 < Mangy_Dog> everything :(
2021-05-20T20:23:59 < Mangy_Dog> tbh
2021-05-20T20:24:13 < Mangy_Dog> even looking at bitwise guides.... !! isnt even mentioned 
2021-05-20T20:25:58 < Mangy_Dog> maybe i just need to wake up a bit more
2021-05-20T20:26:08 < Mangy_Dog> what is annoying though
2021-05-20T20:26:36 < Mangy_Dog> i think this is the last issue to code before the serial stuff is finished (bar bug fixing)
2021-05-20T20:26:44 < Mangy_Dog> oh well
2021-05-20T20:26:56 < karlp> if you leave the !! out completely, it's the "same" if your array is of type bool.
2021-05-20T20:27:05 < karlp> mawk was, like I said, being all maths wanker
2021-05-20T20:27:29 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: well it's not because it's not a separate operatior
2021-05-20T20:27:29 < Mangy_Dog> my array is a bool
2021-05-20T20:27:35 < aandrew> it's literally not not
2021-05-20T20:27:36 < mawk> not at all karlp 
2021-05-20T20:27:45 < mawk> it's a very standard trick
2021-05-20T20:27:48 < Mangy_Dog> anyway i should go put chicken in oven
2021-05-20T20:27:52 < Mangy_Dog> food meat is good
2021-05-20T20:27:52 < aandrew> you can use ~~ and it's legit C, but not a separate operator
2021-05-20T20:28:01 < karlp> mawk: yes, for people from the before times...
2021-05-20T20:28:09 < karlp> if you have it in a "bool" type, it's pointless.
2021-05-20T20:28:16 < aandrew> agreed
2021-05-20T20:28:25 < karlp> we don't all have to live in kernel c89 land
2021-05-20T20:28:27 < aandrew> bool ary[10]; ary[5] = 1234 is perfectly valid
2021-05-20T20:28:58 < aandrew> you might get a compiler warning if you've enabled it, but ary[5] = 1234 and ary[5] = !!1234 would generate the same code
2021-05-20T20:29:11 < mawk> it's not just about the bool array
2021-05-20T20:29:18 < mawk> what's the point of writing his code if he doesn't understand it
2021-05-20T20:29:25 < mawk> !! allows to get the exact bit
2021-05-20T20:29:28 < mawk> that's what matters
2021-05-20T20:29:31 < aandrew> agreed; code should be clear
2021-05-20T20:29:54 < aandrew> and like I said, !! is a neat trick, not really what I'd consider common though
2021-05-20T20:29:57 < mawk> no I mean there's no point in writing code for Mangy_Dog instead of making Mangy_Dog understand how to write the code
2021-05-20T20:30:13 < karlp> well, using 1 << i would have been simpler :)
2021-05-20T20:30:13 < mawk> you can do x != 0 if you want
2021-05-20T20:30:19 < aandrew> mind you there are people who would be similarly tripped up by ?: so it's probably just an experience thing
2021-05-20T20:30:20 < mawk> that's not the ordering he wanted, karlp 
2021-05-20T20:30:21 < karlp> he didn'tspecfy what order he wanted :)
2021-05-20T20:30:26 < mawk> yes he did
2021-05-20T20:30:27 < mawk> read better
2021-05-20T20:30:28 < antto> mawk, what was the purpose of that code? to extract bits from bytes and put them into individual bools?
2021-05-20T20:30:36 < mawk> yes antto 
2021-05-20T20:30:43 < antto> i wouldn't do it like that ;P~
2021-05-20T20:30:54 < mawk> why
2021-05-20T20:31:01 < mawk> how else would you extract bits if not by extracting bits
2021-05-20T20:31:21 < mawk> karlp: I first said x & (1 << i), then he said he wanted the bits reversed
2021-05-20T20:31:29 < mawk> so I said it's x & (1 << (7-i))
2021-05-20T20:31:30 < antto> i'd just use a temporary uint8_t, and then take the lowest bit and shift down
2021-05-20T20:31:46 < mawk> maybe
2021-05-20T20:31:54 < mawk> but that's harder to think about if you're not used to boolean stuff
2021-05-20T20:32:03 < aandrew> int b = 32; while (b--) { bitary[b] = val & (1 << b); } is probably how I'd do it
2021-05-20T20:32:04 < karlp> well, hell, evne mangy dog's code is more interesting thanlibera chats, so . yay. great day!
2021-05-20T20:32:04 < mawk> or maybe not
2021-05-20T20:32:12 < karlp> who's going to qualify for eurovisoin tonight?
2021-05-20T20:32:18 < mawk> why are you there karlp please cease and desist immediately
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2021-05-20T20:32:33 < mawk> /!\ please all exist libera immediately /!\
2021-05-20T20:32:33 < karlp> I've registerd my nick for eventualities, Im not chatting there
2021-05-20T20:32:33 < antto> we have a .bg girl for eurovision
2021-05-20T20:32:38 < aandrew> there's probably a golfier way to do it but I've never been into that
2021-05-20T20:32:39 < mawk> exit* oh no
2021-05-20T20:32:55 < aandrew> and there's probably some neat ARM insn that would be even slicker
2021-05-20T20:33:02 < mawk> why though
2021-05-20T20:33:04 < mawk> arm is cisc
2021-05-20T20:33:10 < mawk> there's a neat x86 instruction for sure
2021-05-20T20:33:32 < mawk> but there's probably a compiler intrisinc that may or may not compile to something efficient
2021-05-20T20:33:34 < antto> specifically on avr, the bitshift instruction shifts just one time
2021-05-20T20:33:40 < antto> so x << 3 ain't cool
2021-05-20T20:33:44 < mawk> ah no the intrinsics are arch specific
2021-05-20T20:33:53  * karlp looks at the channel name...
2021-05-20T20:34:02 < mawk> antto: you doing x >> 3 is the same
2021-05-20T20:34:26  * karlp fires up godbolt
2021-05-20T20:34:37 < mawk> karlp: I mean that since arm is cisc there's probably no such insn
2021-05-20T20:34:54 < aandrew> I'm pretty sure there is an ARM "count bits" insn, not sure about exploding a reg into an array though
2021-05-20T20:35:19 < mawk> sorry no departure from the cisc gospel is allowed
2021-05-20T20:35:28 < antto> sorry for avr
2021-05-20T20:35:42 < antto> i have a lousy excuse
2021-05-20T20:36:07 < antto> i've listened about stm32 on #avr/#avrs way more than i've listened about stm32 here
2021-05-20T20:36:16 < mawk> let's merge them
2021-05-20T20:36:35 < antto> i've been telling them certain people "why u no go to ##stm32 bruh"
2021-05-20T20:36:48 < aandrew> lol
2021-05-20T20:37:10 < aandrew> what are we doing with the freenode/liberia thing
2021-05-20T20:37:14 < mawk> nothing
2021-05-20T20:37:15 < aandrew> we staying here or moving there
2021-05-20T20:37:18 < mawk> it's forbidden to go there
2021-05-20T20:37:21 < antto> it annoyed me so much, so i'm getting karlp pretty well :/
2021-05-20T20:38:11 < antto> perhaps now is the perfect time for me to get the f*ck out of here
2021-05-20T20:38:30 -!- tomeaton17 [33c39631@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.51.195.150.49] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-05-20T20:38:33 < antto> but i'll miss kakim0r
2021-05-20T20:38:50 < karlp> https://godbolt.org/z/EfsM7G55E
2021-05-20T20:39:39 < karlp> aandrew: Ive registered my nick on libera at least, but not in any rush right now personally
2021-05-20T20:40:03 < antto> too bad i don't schprachen ze ASM
2021-05-20T20:41:02 < aandrew> karlp: yeah same
2021-05-20T20:42:33 < aandrew> karlp: hm, looks like mawk beat me by 1 insn
2021-05-20T20:42:48 < karlp> depends on compiler veroisn
2021-05-20T20:42:54 < karlp> on some, yours is shorter.
2021-05-20T20:43:08 < karlp> I got bored trying it on other archs, 
2021-05-20T20:43:15 < karlp> rest of the family came home, time to make pizza
2021-05-20T20:43:21 < karlp> dough's risen.
2021-05-20T20:43:45 < antto> https://godbolt.org/z/8nYqbMzWK
2021-05-20T20:44:02 < antto> haven't bothered whether it's in the same order or not
2021-05-20T20:44:14 < aandrew> interesting
2021-05-20T20:44:19 < aandrew> it's the b-- in the while() that's doing it
2021-05-20T20:44:45 < aandrew> if I do while (b) { bitary[b] = val & (1 << b); b--; } it's the same as mawk's
2021-05-20T20:45:49 < aandrew> and while (b) { bitary[b--] = val & (1 << b); } is also 8 insns, although I dislike that because it's not clear that the decrement occurs after bitary[b] is written with the answer
2021-05-20T20:46:37 < aandrew> actually that won't ork either because 1<<b has to be decremented
2021-05-20T20:46:42 < aandrew> anyway
2021-05-20T20:46:44 < aandrew> I hate golf
2021-05-20T20:46:45 < antto> mine is 9 instructions
2021-05-20T20:47:06 < antto> most of them are yellow
2021-05-20T20:47:13 < antto> i think that's good ;P~
2021-05-20T20:47:43 < aandrew> I didn't grok the colorization
2021-05-20T20:47:52 < aandrew> what's that indicating
2021-05-20T20:48:05 < antto> nothing ;P~
2021-05-20T20:48:18 < antto> but since i don't parles ASM..
2021-05-20T20:50:16 < Mangy_Dog> chickens in oven
2021-05-20T20:50:29 < Mangy_Dog> and i just skim read everything above... and eyes glazed over D:
2021-05-20T20:50:33 < Mangy_Dog> i have a coffee too
2021-05-20T20:50:42 < Mangy_Dog> hopefully would help wake me up a little
2021-05-20T20:50:59 < Mangy_Dog> though i suspect this is something i might have to tackle in the morning after a good nights sleep
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2021-05-20T23:08:53 < qyx> any recommendations for a data logging dmm/daq?
2021-05-20T23:09:18 < qyx> I have seen some owons so far with logging, btle and mobile app
2021-05-20T23:12:43 < qyx> https://www.owon.com.hk/products_owon_4_1|2_digital_multimeter_b41t
2021-05-20T23:12:45 < qyx> this one is kawaii
2021-05-20T23:23:11 < mawk> englishman: you registered #stm32 on libera?
2021-05-20T23:23:14 < mawk> and not ##stm32????
2021-05-20T23:23:20 < mawk> you will get kicked out
2021-05-20T23:23:27 < mawk> they want to do the same # / ## scheme there too
2021-05-20T23:23:33 < englishman> time for a mawkward moment
2021-05-20T23:23:37 < mawk> :(((
2021-05-20T23:23:39 < englishman> as he realizes what has actually been done
2021-05-20T23:23:40 < mawk> why
2021-05-20T23:24:04 < englishman> just like here, both were registered, # forwards to ##
2021-05-20T23:24:16 < mawk> I haven't personally tested
2021-05-20T23:24:26 < englishman> nice data collection there bro
2021-05-20T23:24:36 < Steffann> englishman:  is a pro channel owner
2021-05-20T23:24:38 < mawk> I have an informant
2021-05-20T23:24:45 -!- dreamcat4 [uid157427@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cemilgnhxoovrxks] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
2021-05-20T23:24:50 < mawk> he told me you registered #stm32 
2021-05-20T23:24:50 < Steffann> More pro than the freenode ##stm32 founder
2021-05-20T23:25:13 < Steffann> Yet freenode is the place to be 
2021-05-20T23:25:25 < Steffann> Is it a nazi informant mawk?
2021-05-20T23:25:27 < englishman> Registered : Apr 18 19:48:04 2011 (10y 5w 0d ago)
2021-05-20T23:25:30 < mawk> yes Steffann 
2021-05-20T23:25:32 < englishman> happy belated birthday ##stm32
2021-05-20T23:25:38 < Steffann> Damn. The cracker 
2021-05-20T23:26:00 < englishman> your informant is clearly just as retarded as he always was
2021-05-20T23:26:06 < mawk> :((
2021-05-20T23:26:15 < mawk> he's actually quite smart
2021-05-20T23:26:24 < englishman> that kind of retardedness is contagious you know
2021-05-20T23:26:25 < Steffann> Just mentally ill?
2021-05-20T23:26:40 < mawk> he's just depressed englishman 
2021-05-20T23:26:52 < mawk> it's a cancellation motive to make fun of mental illness
2021-05-20T23:28:26 < Steffann> OK mawk
2021-05-20T23:29:03 < Steffann> Trying cancel people by throwing the cancel card. Damn you, mawk
2021-05-20T23:29:09 < Steffann> To cancel*
2021-05-20T23:29:53 < englishman> mawk i have to take a french test in an hour
2021-05-20T23:41:21 < Steffann> Je ne parle pas français, et toi?
2021-05-20T23:44:36 < antto> moi no schprachen ze espanol
2021-05-20T23:46:04 < steve_> vous etes tous dongels
2021-05-20T23:47:15 < antto> que?
2021-05-20T23:51:04 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-20T23:56:39 < Steffann> Yo no hablo español, señor antto 
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2021-05-21T00:52:45 < karlp> -O3 seriously improves anttos versions, fwiw.
2021-05-21T00:52:53 < mawk> you want me to help you cheat englishman ?
2021-05-21T01:00:16 -!- OxFF [~0xFF@gateway/tor-sasl/oxff] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
2021-05-21T01:16:02 < karlp> I love how specific this sort of product is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000562283653.html
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2021-05-21T01:16:16 < kakium69> steff
2021-05-21T01:16:26 < kakium69> lurence
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2021-05-21T01:33:30 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfHE3npS4ME musics
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2021-05-21T01:37:58 < kakium69> nxp mailing list wants me to get started with azure rtos
2021-05-21T01:38:04 < kakium69> is it good rtos?
2021-05-21T01:44:31 < qyx> isnt it threadx
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2021-05-21T02:01:57 < kakium69> activex?
2021-05-21T02:02:41 < kakium69> aah
2021-05-21T02:02:50 < kakium69> azure is microsoft
2021-05-21T02:02:57 < kakium69> i thought it was amazon
2021-05-21T02:10:26 < kakium69> microsoft has a thing with suffix X
2021-05-21T02:10:43 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-05-21T02:11:04 < karlp> azure rtos is old rtx.
2021-05-21T02:11:10 < karlp> amaonn rtos is freertos
2021-05-21T02:11:36 < kakium69> just freertos?
2021-05-21T02:11:46 < kakium69> with some stuff bundled to it?
2021-05-21T02:11:49 < aandrew> MS is all about ThreadX now
2021-05-21T02:20:08 < kakium69> I ate plastic fork yesterday
2021-05-21T02:20:28 < kakium69> #kakistories
2021-05-21T02:20:50 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T02:22:37 < kakium69> my grill fries were so hot that fork spikes started coming off and one was unaccounted for after I finished
2021-05-21T02:24:57 < aandrew> meh, a little monomer won't hurt ya
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2021-05-21T02:42:23 < jly> yeah mate
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2021-05-21T02:49:31 < kakium69> yeah
2021-05-21T02:59:25 < kakium69> jly: aussie gold hunters was interesting series
2021-05-21T02:59:36 < jly> lol
2021-05-21T02:59:41 < kakium69> does it happen around your location?
2021-05-21T02:59:59 < kakium69> nuggets!
2021-05-21T03:01:53 -!- oofus_ [~quassel@88.97.72.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-05-21T03:02:32 < kakium69> they go in bush and start looking with metal detector
2021-05-21T03:03:08 < kakium69> then they bring in dry blowers and feed it "pay dirt"
2021-05-21T03:03:20 < kakium69> and it's 40C always
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2021-05-21T03:22:59 < jly> okay
2021-05-21T03:23:01 < jly> why not
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2021-05-21T03:48:27 < kakium69> jly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izMoPhkw7FU
2021-05-21T03:48:46 < kakium69> mice attack!
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2021-05-21T07:30:24 < jpa-> heh, looks like my ti.com package is in fact one package but it had two tracking codes for some reason, one of the codes was valid singapore -> germany and the other from there to finland
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2021-05-21T09:20:35 < Steffann> kakium69:  
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2021-05-21T14:43:00 < kakium69> stefanium
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2021-05-21T15:51:20 < englishman> mawk: fuck french
2021-05-21T15:54:59 < karlp> jpa/kaks: congratulations on beating out those boring 80s danes last night
2021-05-21T16:07:41 < zyp> I like the iceland one
2021-05-21T16:07:47 < zyp> but last years was better
2021-05-21T16:08:49 < Steffann> Fuck eurovision
2021-05-21T16:08:55 < Steffann> And our brocoli sonf
2021-05-21T16:08:57 < Steffann> Song
2021-05-21T16:19:16 < Laurenceb_> wtf are they even rioting about
2021-05-21T16:19:24 < Laurenceb_> oh yeah they are Welsh
2021-05-21T16:19:38 < Laurenceb_> ywlts recreational riots
2021-05-21T16:19:50 < Laurenceb_> insert ancap face here
2021-05-21T16:37:12 < Mangy_Dog> need continued help with bitwise :p https://pastebin.com/YL3KMAe5  have i got it right this time? taking bool array values and assigning them to 2 bytes with bit 8 of byteOne being the array[0] value?
2021-05-21T16:39:31 < zyp> looks fairly reasonable, but I don't think you can rely on true being 1
2021-05-21T16:39:42 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-05-21T16:39:46 < Mangy_Dog> i thought thats how bools worked
2021-05-21T16:39:56 < Mangy_Dog> 0 = false 1 true
2021-05-21T16:40:35 < zyp> any nonzero value evaluates as true, so I believe the compiler is allowed to optimize unless you tell it specificly to normalize it to 1 when true
2021-05-21T16:41:09 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-05-21T16:41:23 < Mangy_Dog> is there a flag i need to use?
2021-05-21T16:42:18 < zyp> actually, I might be wrong, I did a test on godbolt and it is indeed normalizing true to 1
2021-05-21T16:43:21 < Mangy_Dog> good good... so outside possibly bools not using 1... which i can add an IF for if i need to.... the bitwise placing the 1 or 0 in the correct bit of the holding byte is correct?
2021-05-21T16:44:56 < jpa-> actualy if you get value other than 0 or 1 stored in bool variable, you cannot reliably add an IF for it
2021-05-21T16:45:16 < Mangy_Dog> well id say if==true value=1
2021-05-21T16:45:53 < Mangy_Dog> though strangely ive seen some bools in the past use -0 for false
2021-05-21T16:46:00 < Mangy_Dog> i honestly didnt understand that
2021-05-21T16:46:01 < Mangy_Dog> but...
2021-05-21T16:46:04  * Mangy_Dog shrugs
2021-05-21T16:47:06 < jpa-> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27661768/weird-results-for-conditional-operator-with-gcc-and-bool-pointers
2021-05-21T16:47:35 < karlp> zyp: yeah, our entry from last year was better, we had a realyl good chance then, this year is just, meh, same again.
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2021-05-21T16:48:03 < jpa-> but on assignment, standard requires conversion of integers to 0 or 1 when storing to bool
2021-05-21T16:48:34 < mawk> how was the test englishman 
2021-05-21T16:50:02 < mawk> true is defined to be _True in C99 I think zyp 
2021-05-21T16:50:15 < mawk> or maybe that's not what you meant
2021-05-21T16:50:22 < mawk> but anyway it's a special type
2021-05-21T16:51:29 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: why do you do   for (i=0; i<8; i++) { if (i < 8) { blahblah } }
2021-05-21T16:51:35 < aandrew> i will be guaranteed to be less than 8
2021-05-21T16:52:01 < Mangy_Dog> oh thats for 2 bytes
2021-05-21T16:52:10 < Mangy_Dog> was 16 in the loop before
2021-05-21T16:52:53 < Mangy_Dog> one min pgone
2021-05-21T16:53:42 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: what's wrong with something like for (i=0; i<16; i++) { byte[i/2] |= (buttonstates[i] << (7 - (i & 0x7))); }
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2021-05-21T17:15:46 < skz81> <Mangy_Dog> though strangely ive seen some bools in the past use -0 for false >> What the ? -0 == 0 thanks to 2-complement...
2021-05-21T17:16:20 < skz81> Also I think there is a bit of confusion between bool definition et boolean evaluation
2021-05-21T17:19:40 < skz81> The exact wording from the C++ standard is (§4.7/4): "If the source type is bool, the value false is converted to zero and the value true is converted to one." 
2021-05-21T17:19:52 < skz81> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725044/can-i-assume-booltrue-int1-for-any-c-compiler
2021-05-21T17:20:46 < Mangy_Dog> Yeah wtf indeed
2021-05-21T17:20:52 < Mangy_Dog> i really didnt understand that
2021-05-21T17:20:57 < Mangy_Dog> but it happened
2021-05-21T17:21:12 < Mangy_Dog> i suspect it might have been something funky going on the readout
2021-05-21T17:21:49 < Mangy_Dog> off phone now
2021-05-21T17:22:16 < Mangy_Dog> andrew i dont know :D
2021-05-21T17:23:32 < mawk> aandrew: i % 8
2021-05-21T17:23:34 < mawk> much prettier
2021-05-21T17:23:56 < Mangy_Dog> mawk making it more confusing for my fragile littl ebrain to follow
2021-05-21T17:24:28 < mawk> nonsense
2021-05-21T17:24:35 < mawk> i & 7 is more confusing than i % 8
2021-05-21T17:24:44 < Mangy_Dog> going back to yesterdays bitwise.... when mawk said do... doorButts[i] = !!(byteOne & (1 << (7 - i)));  as part of a 8 step for loop.... i was looking at it again... Wouldnt doorButts[i] = byteOne & (1 >> i); work?
2021-05-21T17:24:45 < mawk> i % 8 means you wrap around when you hit 8, as simple as that
2021-05-21T17:25:03 < mawk> i & 7 means "that the lowest 3 bits"
2021-05-21T17:25:18 < mawk> is it wise to abbreviate button to butt ?
2021-05-21T17:25:27 < Mangy_Dog> i like butts!
2021-05-21T17:25:30 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2021-05-21T17:25:34 < Steffann> We know that Mangy_Dog 
2021-05-21T17:25:39 < Mangy_Dog> :>
2021-05-21T17:27:42 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/mUujDypK
2021-05-21T17:27:43 < Mangy_Dog> ie
2021-05-21T17:29:01 < englishman> mawk: j'ai été arnaqué
2021-05-21T17:29:13 < mawk> par qui
2021-05-21T17:29:16 < englishman> the fucking oral part was in fucking frog french so i didn't understand a fucking word
2021-05-21T17:29:32 < englishman> with your awful accent
2021-05-21T17:29:46 < englishman> mon bicycletteuh a un pneu crevé
2021-05-21T17:29:55 < englishman> noone talks like that
2021-05-21T17:30:07 < qyx> is french official in .ca?
2021-05-21T17:30:17 < englishman> federally, yes
2021-05-21T17:31:17 < karlp> why wer eyou taking a french test?
2021-05-21T17:31:35 < englishman> i wanted to take the MBA in french
2021-05-21T17:34:11 < englishman> my degree was in english, so i had to take a french test
2021-05-21T17:34:16 < englishman> i am pretty sure not even locals could pass it
2021-05-21T17:34:23 < englishman> because it was in fucking frog french
2021-05-21T17:34:29 < englishman> which might as well be a foreign language
2021-05-21T17:34:42 < mawk> lol
2021-05-21T17:34:53 < mawk> I can sometimes understand .qc french
2021-05-21T17:34:59 < mawk> unless they use weird expressions
2021-05-21T17:35:05 < englishman> aka best french
2021-05-21T17:36:04 < englishman> comparison https://i.redd.it/da1q2o79p9071.jpg
2021-05-21T17:36:51 < englishman> just look at the awful frog french https://i.imgur.com/ddBFU90.jpg
2021-05-21T17:37:51 < mawk> lol
2021-05-21T17:37:53 < mawk> nimp
2021-05-21T17:38:03 < mawk> voilà que tu sais
2021-05-21T17:38:11 < mawk> jvé te dire où on va
2021-05-21T17:38:18 < mawk> this is perfectly understandable french french
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2021-05-21T17:41:58 < t4nk_freenode> looks a bit contracted, like dialect
2021-05-21T17:42:11 < t4nk_freenode> padproblèm
2021-05-21T17:42:18 < englishman> voilà que tu sais -> orgor ktu sé
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2021-05-21T17:47:16 < t4nk_freenode> don't forget there's a tonne of african-africans(mustn't discriminate) 'speaking french'
2021-05-21T17:47:56 < t4nk_freenode> well they had no choice since they were brutally conquered ;)
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2021-05-21T17:49:01 < englishman> i had no trouble talking with moroccans or malagash actually
2021-05-21T17:49:05 < englishman> its just the fucking french
2021-05-21T17:50:46 < Steffann> Je m'appelle englishman . Je ne parle pas français 
2021-05-21T17:53:36 < t4nk_freenode> I'm afraid it's more of a vicious age-old feud between the english and the french, though you won't see them admitting it openly
2021-05-21T17:54:00 < t4nk_freenode> french condom vs capotte anglais.
2021-05-21T17:57:36 < aandrew> mawk> i & 7 is more confusing than i % 8
2021-05-21T17:57:44 < aandrew> I disagree, but chacun son a gout
2021-05-21T17:58:26 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-05-21T17:58:31 < aandrew> also % could make your compiler emit a very nasty math function rather than a simple AND
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2021-05-21T18:01:17 < Mangy_Dog> right had lunch
2021-05-21T18:01:20 < Mangy_Dog> so umm
2021-05-21T18:01:25 < Mangy_Dog> my question earlier
2021-05-21T18:01:38 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/mUujDypK 
2021-05-21T18:01:52 < Mangy_Dog> was my alternative line thats commented out... going to do the same thing?
2021-05-21T18:02:01 < Mangy_Dog> i mean same end result?
2021-05-21T18:02:29 < Mangy_Dog> specifically the bitwise
2021-05-21T18:03:25 < Mangy_Dog> wait no
2021-05-21T18:03:26 < Mangy_Dog> it wouldnt
2021-05-21T18:04:31 < t4nk_freenode> guess the good night's sleep didn't help? ;)
2021-05-21T18:04:56 < Mangy_Dog> doorButts[i] = byteOne & (1 << i) would mask the bit, but i then need to bring that bit down to bit1 to place into the array 
2021-05-21T18:05:05 < Mangy_Dog> tank no it did... i just hate bitwise
2021-05-21T18:05:10 < Mangy_Dog> im dyslexic
2021-05-21T18:05:14 < Mangy_Dog> and i struggle with it
2021-05-21T18:05:29 < Mangy_Dog> though at least my eyes arent glazing over and brain turning to fog every time i look at it
2021-05-21T18:05:52 < t4nk_freenode> I know, you had the exact same troubles with the previous project.. ehhhh with the bolted led's
2021-05-21T18:06:08 < t4nk_freenode> I don't envy you though, I don't like bitwise too much either
2021-05-21T18:06:10 < Mangy_Dog> bolted leds?
2021-05-21T18:06:12  * Laurenceb_ is getting confused by power supply design
2021-05-21T18:06:24 < Laurenceb_> I have fuse and TVS protection
2021-05-21T18:06:26 < Mangy_Dog> tbh yeah bitwise really makes my brain hurt
2021-05-21T18:06:41 < Mangy_Dog> even with simple functions
2021-05-21T18:06:47 < Laurenceb_> so a huge pulse will go through the TVS and blow the fuse
2021-05-21T18:06:52 < t4nk_freenode> lol mangy... that 5cm^2 plate with 50.000 bolts, remember? :))
2021-05-21T18:07:13 < t4nk_freenode> with the segmented led's you made yourself
2021-05-21T18:07:14 < Laurenceb_> but a lower voltage thats still too high would pass through the TVS and cook it without blowing the fuse
2021-05-21T18:07:18 < Mangy_Dog> ohh
2021-05-21T18:07:23 < Laurenceb_> how do I solve this problem... ?
2021-05-21T18:07:30 < Mangy_Dog> i dont remember 50 thousand bolts though
2021-05-21T18:07:35 < t4nk_freenode> lol heheh
2021-05-21T18:07:38 < Mangy_Dog> in the end the bitwise in the display was simple
2021-05-21T18:07:57 < Mangy_Dog> though this should be simple i cant get my head round it
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2021-05-21T18:08:27 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, and all you can do is go back to the basics... but the basic theory is 'too simple'
2021-05-21T18:08:50 < t4nk_freenode> and then there's a gap to the actual problem, which is too hard
2021-05-21T18:09:30 < t4nk_freenode> the way I see it is that one can make it work, but there's also an elegant way
2021-05-21T18:09:42 < t4nk_freenode> I can usually make it work without any signs of elegance
2021-05-21T18:10:20 < Mangy_Dog> I cant remember that if i bitwhift the actual varible it will remove the data rather than just iso late the bit i want per loop
2021-05-21T18:10:57 < Mangy_Dog> which tbh
2021-05-21T18:11:16 < Mangy_Dog> i could just start a button 8 and work down to 1 shifting the source byte one bit at a time
2021-05-21T18:13:03 < Mangy_Dog> IE doorButts[7-i] = 1 & (byteOne >> 1);
2021-05-21T18:13:10 < Mangy_Dog> its destructive
2021-05-21T18:13:20 < Mangy_Dog> but the end result is all that matters
2021-05-21T18:13:40 < Mangy_Dog> oh wait
2021-05-21T18:13:41 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-05-21T18:13:51 < Mangy_Dog> it would skip the first byte
2021-05-21T18:13:53 < Mangy_Dog> won ti
2021-05-21T18:13:54 < Mangy_Dog> it
2021-05-21T18:14:00 < Mangy_Dog> wont it
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2021-05-21T18:25:08 < Mangy_Dog> what does !! mean again in bitwise?
2021-05-21T18:25:15 < Mangy_Dog> its nto or like | or ||
2021-05-21T18:29:05 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: it doesn't mean anything
2021-05-21T18:29:07 < aandrew> it is ! and !
2021-05-21T18:29:11 < aandrew> it's not a separate thing
2021-05-21T18:29:35 < aandrew> int a = 3; int b = !a, what is the value of b
2021-05-21T18:31:11 < Mangy_Dog> well in mawks context what does it mean
2021-05-21T18:31:23 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: follow it through
2021-05-21T18:31:26 < Mangy_Dog> or was he just trying to confuse me
2021-05-21T18:31:26 < aandrew> int a = 3; int b = !a, what is the value of b
2021-05-21T18:31:42 < Mangy_Dog> not 3?
2021-05-21T18:31:45 < aandrew> which is?
2021-05-21T18:31:51 < Mangy_Dog> 1 2 4 5 6 7 8
2021-05-21T18:31:54 < aandrew> remember ! is a boolean operation
2021-05-21T18:31:54 < Mangy_Dog> ?
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2021-05-21T18:32:08 < Mangy_Dog> if ! is boolean whats !!?
2021-05-21T18:32:13 < aandrew> so in a logical context, any value that is not zero is 1, right?
2021-05-21T18:32:16 < aandrew> so !3 = 0
2021-05-21T18:32:24 < aandrew> and if we do
2021-05-21T18:32:35 < Mangy_Dog> so !! is 1?
2021-05-21T18:32:37 < aandrew> int a = 3; int b = !a; int c = !!a
2021-05-21T18:32:39 < aandrew> c = 1
2021-05-21T18:32:40 < aandrew> correct
2021-05-21T18:32:55 < aandrew> it's just a geeky way to reduce any number to a 1 or 0
2021-05-21T18:32:56 < Mangy_Dog> so !! is 1 for anything that is not the same number
2021-05-21T18:33:06 < aandrew> !! is one for any value not a 0
2021-05-21T18:33:15 < Mangy_Dog> ok
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2021-05-21T18:37:26 < mawk> aandrew: no compiler on earth wouldn't compile %8 to &7
2021-05-21T18:37:34 < mawk> and if there is, send the guy who write it to me
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2021-05-21T18:56:26 < aandrew> mawk: https://godbolt.org/z/dKb55x6bo
2021-05-21T18:59:37 < aandrew> bah, now it's showing the and, it was calling divmod
2021-05-21T19:01:08 < aandrew> ahh there we go
2021-05-21T19:01:09 < aandrew> https://godbolt.org/z/rjvME71xG
2021-05-21T19:01:11 < aandrew> it's the 'int'
2021-05-21T19:01:36 < aandrew> -O2 and higher fixes it
2021-05-21T19:11:11 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T19:11:42 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-18b99d28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T19:16:36 -!- R2COM [~R2COM@ip174-74-227-3.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T19:23:53 < antto> ooh, are we bitfiddling again
2021-05-21T19:24:57 < aandrew> no we're not
2021-05-21T19:25:03 < aandrew> it was just an aside
2021-05-21T19:26:43 < antto> yes you were, i saw u
2021-05-21T19:27:46 < aandrew> wasn't me
2021-05-21T19:28:04 < aandrew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_x6QmuJdms
2021-05-21T19:42:33 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMua2YuVmNk cats love pink floyd
2021-05-21T19:43:25 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiyZvsLIeEY and more
2021-05-21T19:43:48 < antto> kakim0r, r u staying on freenope or evacuating to libera?
2021-05-21T19:44:08 < kakium69> I don't understand what you saying
2021-05-21T19:44:14 < antto> o_O
2021-05-21T19:44:43 < antto> you're unaware of the recent events with freenope?
2021-05-21T19:45:02 < kakium69> but given I barelly do anything I'm not doing anything right now
2021-05-21T19:45:14 < kakium69> meaning staying for today
2021-05-21T19:45:40 < kakium69> events?
2021-05-21T19:46:22 < antto> freenope suddenly started sinking, the staff resigned and made a new network, tons of folks are now moving to the new network
2021-05-21T19:46:22 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T19:46:28 < antto> or to other networks
2021-05-21T19:46:43 < antto> abandon_ship();
2021-05-21T19:47:02 < kakium69> sinking?
2021-05-21T19:47:18 < kakium69> it's working just fine
2021-05-21T19:47:29 < antto> yeah, let me show you an illustration
2021-05-21T19:47:38 < antto> https://i.imgur.com/hXyKyMw.png
2021-05-21T19:48:34 < kakium69> irc needs no staff
2021-05-21T19:48:44 < kakium69> just pay the cloud hosting
2021-05-21T19:48:48 < MrMobius> wait dont "staff" get paid usually?
2021-05-21T19:48:48 < kakium69> and leave it
2021-05-21T19:49:46 < kakium69> I have actually sent email to freenode once
2021-05-21T19:49:50 < kakium69> and they responded
2021-05-21T19:49:52 < t4nk_freenode> the abandoning isn't taking shape as much yet
2021-05-21T19:50:06 < kakium69> so someone is like writing email back and stuff
2021-05-21T19:50:39 < Steffann> antto: the other ship is broken as hell
2021-05-21T19:50:51 < Steffann> Can't even do non-spam email properly
2021-05-21T19:52:22 < antto> MrMobius, no
2021-05-21T19:52:30 < antto> the staff were all volunteers
2021-05-21T19:52:43 < kakium69> so is it a person chemistry problem in staff or what?
2021-05-21T19:52:56 < antto> thus when the evil lee prince boi decided to do shady things, they resigned immediately
2021-05-21T19:53:08 < kakium69> shady?
2021-05-21T19:53:21 < antto> he is shady
2021-05-21T19:53:47 < MrMobius> antto, right so maybe they should stop calling themselves staff
2021-05-21T19:54:04 < kakium69> what is shady?
2021-05-21T19:55:08 < t4nk_freenode>  1. quiet, dark, or concealed
2021-05-21T19:56:40 < Steffann> The staff are all sjw furryers I heard. Easily butt hurt
2021-05-21T19:56:40 < antto> MrMobius, afaiu, originally, freenope has been in a scheme where the staff are volunteers, the servers are ran by sponsors
2021-05-21T19:56:51 < Steffann> Ex-staff
2021-05-21T19:57:50 < antto> then this PIA sh*t comes on top, but there has been an agreement that no matter what, PIA shall not be messing with the management/staff
2021-05-21T19:58:48 < antto> well now, the actual prince lee is now sitting in #freenode with an op and his brand new staff
2021-05-21T19:59:02 -!- mouseghost [~draco@wikipedia/desperek] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-05-21T19:59:05 < antto> he sent a global notice himself even
2021-05-21T19:59:14 < antto> anyway.. $whatever
2021-05-21T19:59:36 < englishman> uh
2021-05-21T19:59:43 < englishman> was freechode supposed to be a democracy or something
2021-05-21T20:00:10 < englishman> it was always a dictatorship run by weeaboo lunix nerds
2021-05-21T20:00:16 < englishman> now it's run by successful professionals
2021-05-21T20:00:26 < antto> * prince lee
2021-05-21T20:02:25 < kakium69> things with "free" in name are not democracies
2021-05-21T20:02:46 < antto> there's no "free" in Libera ;P~
2021-05-21T20:03:26 < Steffann> My ass is free
2021-05-21T20:04:15 < kakium69> chats killed
2021-05-21T20:04:39 < kakium69> me go to evenings drive>
2021-05-21T20:05:00 < Steffann> Enjoy kakium69 
2021-05-21T20:05:04 < Steffann> Enjoy 
2021-05-21T20:06:40 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXEK-fc3_BU finnish Linkin Park
2021-05-21T20:08:44 < kakium69> https://cabinporn.com/ nsfw
2021-05-21T20:08:58 < kakium69> ride now>
2021-05-21T20:11:33 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@unaffiliated/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-05-21T20:25:06 -!- hkl0 [~hkl0@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-05-21T20:37:30 < Steffann> On the moped kakium69?
2021-05-21T20:40:07 < t4nk_freenode> <Muzer9> /!\ THIS NETWORK HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\
2021-05-21T20:40:07 < t4nk_freenode> <Muzer9> CONNECT TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT FOR ALL YOUR CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NEEDS
2021-05-21T20:40:44 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-05-21T20:41:45 < t4nk_freenode> maybe Leenode isn't so bad
2021-05-21T20:52:56 < t4nk_freenode> pffff what a bunch of spamlosers
2021-05-21T21:22:34 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
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2021-05-21T22:05:35 < qyx> some free content https://www.academyofemc.com/emc-standards
2021-05-21T22:06:48 < benishor> soooo
2021-05-21T22:06:58 < benishor> are people switch to libera?
2021-05-21T22:07:02 < benishor> switching
2021-05-21T22:07:46 < Steffann> There is some ##stm32 there 
2021-05-21T22:07:50 < Steffann> But nothing real
2021-05-21T22:09:28 < antto> benishor, you're probably asking if ##stm32 is switching
2021-05-21T22:10:46 < englishman> liberia is an utter failure, as expected
2021-05-21T22:11:18 < englishman> Steffann: wework lost another $2.1b this quarter
2021-05-21T22:11:27 < Steffann> Lol
2021-05-21T22:12:19 < benishor> yes antto
2021-05-21T22:12:26 < benishor> I am asking eaxctly that
2021-05-21T22:12:52 < antto> benishor, ask the $bosses
2021-05-21T22:12:59 < benishor> damn I'm dysgraphic today
2021-05-21T22:13:04 < antto> my nose tells me "nope"
2021-05-21T22:19:10 < Ultrasauce> i am inclined to say yes, we did get set up there
2021-05-21T22:19:18 < Ultrasauce> but not going to push too hard to move people over
2021-05-21T22:21:24 < zyp> I'm moving when enough of the channels I'm on have moved for me to start caring
2021-05-21T22:22:04 < antto> zyp, but did you register a nick there already
2021-05-21T22:22:17 < zyp> haven't even connected
2021-05-21T22:22:27 < antto> meh, so you'll stay here then
2021-05-21T22:22:34 < antto> ;]
2021-05-21T22:24:22 < zyp> for me it's pretty irrelevant where the channels are hosted, I'll go wherever the discussion is happening
2021-05-21T22:24:52 < zyp> I see no point in remaining in dead freenode channels when ~everybody else moves away
2021-05-21T22:27:31 < antto> for me it's inconvenient to be in many networks
2021-05-21T22:27:45 < antto> i'm normally in 2, so now i'm in 3
2021-05-21T22:28:03 < antto> freenope will have to go
2021-05-21T22:28:05 < zyp> not sure how many I'm in, doesn't really make a difference
2021-05-21T22:28:25 < antto> yeah, some folks are okay with being on 239872397 channels and networks
2021-05-21T22:28:28 < Steffann> Bye antto 
2021-05-21T22:28:40 < Steffann> It was nice to have known you
2021-05-21T22:28:48 < Steffann> Firewall
2021-05-21T22:28:49 < zyp> irssi doesn't group channels by networks anyway, so ten channels on one network is no different from ten channels across four different networks
2021-05-21T22:28:53 < Steffann> Farewell 
2021-05-21T22:29:34 < zyp> I'm on five networks already, apparently
2021-05-21T22:29:49 < antto> you're a h4x0r
2021-05-21T22:29:56 < zyp> one more is not gonna make a difference
2021-05-21T22:33:29 < antto> i'll miss a few folks from this channel
2021-05-21T22:34:21 < specing> How long before someone makes an IRC channel that lets you join channels?
2021-05-21T22:34:49 < specing> As in, a virtual channel that aggregates messages from multiple real ones
2021-05-21T22:34:59 < specing> IRC client*
2021-05-21T22:34:59 < antto> specing, that already exists
2021-05-21T22:35:09 < antto> oh a client
2021-05-21T22:35:16 < antto> single window view?
2021-05-21T22:35:23 < antto> didn't mIRC have this even
2021-05-21T22:35:53 < antto> you might as well connect via telnet then
2021-05-21T22:35:55 < antto> basically
2021-05-21T22:36:02 < zyp> people are already bridging everything to everything
2021-05-21T22:36:14 < specing> Yes, but he trick is in where to send responses
2021-05-21T22:36:18 < specing> the*
2021-05-21T22:36:32 < antto> no, i think he means a single-window view for all the channels you're on, a client-side thing entirely
2021-05-21T22:36:39 < antto> nothing to do with bridging channels
2021-05-21T22:37:35 < zyp> read to me as aggregating e.g. freenode/##stm32 and libera/##stm32 in one window
2021-05-21T22:37:47 < zyp> which is pretty close to what bridging does
2021-05-21T22:40:36 < antto> in my old mIRC script, i had channel messages appear on query windows
2021-05-21T22:41:20 < antto> say you're talking to mr specing on a query, and he suddenly sez sumfin on a channel
2021-05-21T22:41:28 < antto> you see it in the query window
2021-05-21T22:41:32 < antto> <#ada/@specing> i like C++ but i can't admit it publicly
2021-05-21T22:42:20 < antto> i'd better run now ;P~
2021-05-21T22:42:43 -!- antto [~pewpew@antonsavov.net] has left ##stm32 ["saionara"]
2021-05-21T22:42:46 < specing> zyp: yes
2021-05-21T22:47:00 < qyx> This edge computer uses ST’s S2-LP #radio transceiver to acquire frames sent by Tire Mounted Sensors
2021-05-21T22:47:08 < qyx> whats that S2-LP thing
2021-05-21T22:47:12 < qyx> another ST dead-end?
2021-05-21T22:47:44 < qyx> or is it still the same
2021-05-21T23:11:37 -!- turnip420 [~machinehu@2620:10d:c090:400::5:916e] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-21T23:11:51 < turnip420> ahahahahhahah
2021-05-21T23:12:12 < turnip420> wtf is this anti semitic spambot lol
2021-05-21T23:21:35 < Steffann> its not here though
2021-05-21T23:22:51 < Ultrasauce> +s helps
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2021-05-21T23:43:01 < R2COM> goddamnit i fucking so hate cadence soft for pcb
2021-05-21T23:43:38 < R2COM> it crashes every like 20 mins, and sometimes lags and tries to re-verify software compatibility with older sofft (wtf) and so fucking clunky
2021-05-21T23:44:12 < R2COM> and for that "support" package you basically get shitheaded retards from overseas with heavy indian support who themselves dont know a shit
2021-05-21T23:44:24 < R2COM> and barely speak fucking english
2021-05-21T23:44:39 < R2COM> and by the time when they get to understand problem you sort it out yourself
2021-05-21T23:45:30 < R2COM> s/support/accent
2021-05-21T23:53:37 < steve_> heavy indian support, that sounds like a tactical move in a tabletop game
2021-05-21T23:53:42 < Laurenceb_> keeek Muzer9
2021-05-21T23:53:59 < turnip420> lol
--- Day changed Sat May 22 2021
2021-05-22T00:06:17 < steve_> i didnt' even realize freenode was owned by an entity and could be bought or sold.  there should be more slander and primary source accusations about who these people are, otherwise its just hype that only the media cares to spread
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2021-05-22T00:31:21 < qyx> probably most of the people neither
2021-05-22T00:39:25 -!- sync_ is now known as sync
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2021-05-22T01:05:00 < karlp> I love how aretoo spent years raging about how altium was a disaster and all pros use pro cadence and orcad, and now that he's been using them he does nothing but rage about how shit they are :)
2021-05-22T01:05:15 < Steffann> Lol I didn't want to say this 😅
2021-05-22T01:05:46 < karlp> the problem with antto's "sinking ship" image and the whole marketing is it hinges upon the ship... you know... sinking....
2021-05-22T01:06:18 < karlp> the ship continuing to sail peacefully and uninterrupted, but the dudes in the engine room have a new employer is...... kinda irrelevant to us hobnobbing it up here in 1st class....
2021-05-22T01:13:37 < qyx> but but but the moral side
2021-05-22T01:17:09 < Ultrasauce> id certainly prefer to not be using infrastructure run by mtgox partners personally
2021-05-22T01:26:16 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-05-22T01:39:39 < karlp> so. sell it to me, what's the evil overlord plan?
2021-05-22T01:39:54 < karlp> I mean, is it jsut an ego trip? never got to have ops, gets to have ops now?
2021-05-22T01:39:58 < karlp> I can udnerstand that at least,
2021-05-22T01:40:42 < karlp> and if it's just an ego trip, is libera.chat not also just an ego trip?
2021-05-22T01:42:53 < Ultrasauce> not gonna pretend to understand the motivations involved
2021-05-22T01:43:14 < Ultrasauce> i am a bit uncomfortable with moving to another network run by the same people who failed negotiate a better outcome
2021-05-22T01:45:09 < steve_> agree, I'll listen to an argument but not pure political noise
2021-05-22T01:47:40 < karlp> it's partly why I'm much more inclined to moving to oftc and sidestepping both parties here, if a move is required.
2021-05-22T01:48:43 < Ultrasauce> oftc has the same head of staff as freenode did
2021-05-22T01:50:48 < qyx> christel/tomaw?
2021-05-22T01:50:52 < Ultrasauce> tomaw
2021-05-22T01:51:28 < karlp> still been ~zero drama there, and I get none of the spam bullshit that freenode has had on and off.
2021-05-22T01:51:40 < karlp> I get that follows the user count to a degree of course
2021-05-22T01:51:48 < qyx> I wasa bout to ask
2021-05-22T01:51:53 < Ultrasauce> they are being hit too, most channels are +s though
2021-05-22T01:52:06 < Ultrasauce> and the bots just use /list or whatever
2021-05-22T01:53:29 < Ultrasauce> but yes definitely seems a bit chiller there, offtopic channels being against policy is probably a big part of that though
2021-05-22T01:53:58 < englishman> can't move ##stm32 there, then
2021-05-22T01:54:23 < Ultrasauce> well it'd not be much of a reach considering most of what we do involves foss tooling
2021-05-22T02:02:38 < qyx> meh a dictionary is using an uncommon word to describe another one
2021-05-22T02:03:08 < qyx> google for "abyss" to know it is a "bottomless chasm"
2021-05-22T02:03:32 < qyx> fuk that
2021-05-22T02:03:44 < qyx> google for chasm, "a deep fissure"
2021-05-22T02:03:59 < qyx> is the oxford dict trolling me
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2021-05-22T02:04:32 < englishman> google fissure -> a small abyss
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2021-05-22T02:51:09  * Laurenceb_ is going slowly insane
2021-05-22T02:51:19  * Laurenceb_ is trying to design hyperloop power supply
2021-05-22T02:51:34 < Laurenceb_> it has to withstand nasty spikes of ~+-2kV
2021-05-22T02:51:45 < Laurenceb_> and also fail safe by blowing a fuse on overvoltage
2021-05-22T02:51:55 < Laurenceb_> I cant find a neat way to make this work
2021-05-22T02:52:21 < Laurenceb_> standard way is fuse+TVS
2021-05-22T02:52:49 < Laurenceb_> but I^2*t for TVS diodes is limited to about 3 or 5 
2021-05-22T02:53:14 < Laurenceb_> I^2*t to blow suitable fuses is >10, so the TVS blows up before the fuse with a short spike
2021-05-22T02:53:31 < Laurenceb_> and with a long period of excess voltage the TVS gets cooked well before any fuse would
2021-05-22T02:53:36 < Laurenceb_> so the fuse does nothing :(
2021-05-22T02:54:14 < Laurenceb_> I was wondering about Trisils or weird designs with Triacs and polyfuses
2021-05-22T02:54:28 < Laurenceb_> but so far I havent managed to design anything that wont just blow up
2021-05-22T02:54:48 < Laurenceb_> is there some magic component that I'm missing?
2021-05-22T02:55:48 < Laurenceb_> in service it will see nasty spikes and fluctuations, but I only want it to blow the fuse if absolutely necessary
2021-05-22T02:57:14 < Laurenceb_> maybe an explosive charge around the power cable and a micro to analyse the power
2021-05-22T03:03:44 < Laurenceb_> I probably need to understand how a gated trisil works
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2021-05-22T03:08:41 < Ultrasauce> yeah i think at that scale crowbarring with a thyristor is typical
2021-05-22T03:09:07 < Ultrasauce> or a trisil but having more control over the triggering is probably preferable
2021-05-22T03:12:08 < sync> Laurenceb_: just use loooots of TVS?
2021-05-22T03:13:04 < sync> I have stuff running on rolling stock and it just uses MOV/GDT and some TVS and has been reliable
2021-05-22T03:16:40 < Laurenceb_> Ultrasauce: interesting, ok
2021-05-22T03:16:55 < Laurenceb_> yeah my though was to trigger a triac to bust the fuse
2021-05-22T03:17:04 < Laurenceb_> if it looks like the TVS is going to blow
2021-05-22T03:17:46 < Laurenceb_> I thought of having a polyfuse in series with the TVS and the Triac gate connected to the middle of polyfuse/TVS
2021-05-22T03:18:15 < Laurenceb_> but that would trigger from the ~10ohm polyfuse resistance during short duration spikes
2021-05-22T03:23:17 < englishman> keep it at 2kV potential at all times?
2021-05-22T03:23:50 < sync> if you have lots of current spikes it will degrade the polyfuse
2021-05-22T03:24:35 < englishman> ^^^
2021-05-22T03:25:01 < englishman> i knew a guy whose job it was to go around the country replacing a single polyfuse in various busses
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2021-05-22T12:28:43 < karlp> speaking of protection: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Ey1OR.png
2021-05-22T12:29:53 < karlp> product is one of thes: http://sekicon.com/eng/product/bimetal-thermostat.html?ckattempt=1
2021-05-22T12:31:42 < qyx> lol
2021-05-22T12:44:30 < karlp> lol a this claim from keysight too: " 92% of companies suffered a recall, rejected product, increased returns, or lost yield from test equipment that was out of calibration."
2021-05-22T12:44:40 < karlp> I wonder what the population for that 92% claim is...
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2021-05-22T15:18:03 < Streaker>  bimetal thermostats are a generic part. I wonder why he needed to contact the manufacturer when he could have just bought one off aliexpress or if he wants something better - off digikey
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2021-05-22T15:58:48 < kakium69> I had pretty hard time sleeping
2021-05-22T15:58:57 < kakium69> I left youtube on
2021-05-22T15:59:32 < kakium69> it autoplayed to Stanford prof multi hour lecture series about special relativity
2021-05-22T16:00:37 < kakium69> so my brain tried to figure it out while I was sleeping
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2021-05-22T17:12:20 < Steffann> People ever tell you, you are weird kakium69 ?
2021-05-22T17:12:34 < kakium69> only you
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2021-05-22T17:12:49 < Steffann> Hah long time since I've said that 
2021-05-22T17:12:55 < kakium69> you have a problem with weirdness
2021-05-22T17:13:31 < Steffann> No
2021-05-22T17:14:21 < kakium69> need to go>
2021-05-22T17:14:27 < kakium69> back tommorow or so>
2021-05-22T17:15:22 < Steffann> Enjoy 
2021-05-22T17:15:29 < Steffann> Big sauna party?
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2021-05-22T17:46:18  * Laurenceb is still raging
2021-05-22T17:46:47 < Laurenceb> I thought I had an answer to muh power supply: divert current into a BJT or mosfet
2021-05-22T17:47:02 < Laurenceb> but cheap bjts and mosfets dont like pulsed power
2021-05-22T17:47:12 < Laurenceb> weird that Triacs handle it ok
2021-05-22T17:48:36 < Laurenceb> its very hard to find a semiconductor component thats more rugged than a fuse
2021-05-22T17:50:06 < karlp> streaker: oh. not here.
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2021-05-22T18:33:42 < Streaker> karlp: in disgeese!
2021-05-22T18:44:49 < Laurenceb> anyone ever seen a SMD GTO Thyristor?
2021-05-22T18:44:59 < Laurenceb> that might solve my issues, but it doesnt seem to exist
2021-05-22T18:48:44 < kakium69> Steffann: ofc
2021-05-22T18:48:45 < kakium69> >
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2021-05-22T22:46:46 < Steffann> "We are aware of the current network stability issues. Please bear with us while we work to resolve them. Thankyou for your understanding." yeah antto, its great. its amazing.
2021-05-22T22:47:18 < mawk> listen to eurovision Steffann 
2021-05-22T22:47:29 < mawk> https://youtu.be/msfdz_aksY8
2021-05-22T22:48:16 < Steffann> You are my brocoli mawk
2021-05-22T22:48:58 < Steffann> I think you want me to kill myself, makward 
2021-05-22T22:51:09 < Steffann> the current one is dutch as well, mawk.
2021-05-22T22:54:48 < mawk> the swiss guy?
2021-05-22T22:55:33 < zyp> no, this is tct 
2021-05-22T22:55:44 < Steffann> no, the greece girl.
2021-05-22T22:58:52 < mawk> a
2021-05-22T22:59:02 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/iMUrQSH.png
2021-05-22T22:59:04 < mawk> this
2021-05-22T23:00:09 < Steffann> oui
2021-05-22T23:12:20 < tct> who wants free gold?
2021-05-22T23:12:25 < tct> sry, wrong channel.
2021-05-22T23:12:29 < tct> no gold for you.
2021-05-22T23:12:45 < zyp> no thanks, I only accept paid gold
2021-05-22T23:12:53 < tct> ;-)
2021-05-22T23:13:04 < mawk> give me free gold tct 
2021-05-22T23:13:06 < mawk> please please
2021-05-22T23:13:09 < mawk> free gold now
2021-05-22T23:13:15 < mawk> g o l d  f o r  m a w k
2021-05-22T23:13:16 < tct> greedy dutch guy.
2021-05-22T23:13:18 < mawk> :(
2021-05-22T23:13:20 < Steffann> You cannot give away the gold that is not yours in the first place tct ;)
2021-05-22T23:13:20 < tct> :p
2021-05-22T23:13:48 < mawk> I'm only between 1/2 and 1/3 dutch
2021-05-22T23:14:03 < Steffann> if you say you are jew, then you already are the owner of the gold, mawk
2021-05-22T23:14:24 < mawk> :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2021-05-22T23:14:29 < mawk> Steffann is ANTISEMITIK
2021-05-22T23:14:42 < mawk> I'm proud of you
2021-05-22T23:14:45 < mawk> welcome to the club
2021-05-22T23:15:44 < Steffann> I just said jew, that doesnt make me that.
2021-05-22T23:15:53 < Steffann> https://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/world/swiss-acknowledge-profiting-from-nazi-gold.html
2021-05-22T23:17:03 < tct> jup
2021-05-22T23:17:35 < Steffann> So how are the days mr tct?
2021-05-22T23:17:43 < tct> good
2021-05-22T23:17:48 < tct> gf left today for like two to three weeks
2021-05-22T23:17:54 < tct> maximum C++ time incoming.
2021-05-22T23:18:00 < qyx> :D
2021-05-22T23:18:05 < zyp> haha
2021-05-22T23:18:15 < Steffann> Who has to take care of the dog?
2021-05-22T23:18:21 < tct> she took it to dutchland
2021-05-22T23:18:30 < tct> \0/
2021-05-22T23:18:33 < Steffann> hah
2021-05-22T23:19:46 < Steffann> im proud you still use "dutchland" :D
2021-05-22T23:19:53 < tct> ;)
2021-05-22T23:20:34 < mawk> why not follow her tct 
2021-05-22T23:20:36 < mawk> come see us
2021-05-22T23:20:59 < mawk> irl with Steffann and t4nk_freenode and me
2021-05-22T23:21:12 < tct> who on earth is t4nk_freenode ? 
2021-05-22T23:21:17 < mawk> to drink Steffann's favoite beer
2021-05-22T23:21:19 < mawk> some dutch guy
2021-05-22T23:21:23 < mawk> I don't know exactly
2021-05-22T23:21:34 < tct> genuine dutch or also a phony? ;-)
2021-05-22T23:21:44 < Steffann> real i think.
2021-05-22T23:21:44 < mawk> ???????????? what is this insinuation
2021-05-22T23:21:46 < Steffann> from below the rivers.
2021-05-22T23:21:47 < mawk> I'm proper dutch
2021-05-22T23:21:57 < tct> I know, I know...
2021-05-22T23:21:59 < mawk> :(
2021-05-22T23:22:02 < Steffann> No you are not, you even rotated the flag 90 degrees
2021-05-22T23:22:03 < tct> :*
2021-05-22T23:22:06 < mawk> :(((
2021-05-22T23:22:13 < mawk> I'm legally dutch
2021-05-22T23:22:22 < mawk> it says on my BSN certificate paper stuff
2021-05-22T23:22:26 < mawk> "nationality: netherlands"
2021-05-22T23:22:27 < qyx> "from below the rivers" sounds exactly like "from the east" here
2021-05-22T23:22:37 < tct> when my gf sends pictures when she's in dutchland and there's a dutch flag somewhere my brain initially still goes: "wtf is she doing in france?"
2021-05-22T23:22:38 < Steffann> do you recognize the queen, mawk?
2021-05-22T23:22:50 < mawk> maxima pinochetta Steffann ? yes
2021-05-22T23:23:07 < Steffann> and willem?
2021-05-22T23:23:10 < mawk> yes
2021-05-22T23:23:18 < mawk> fatty wilhelm
2021-05-22T23:23:19 < Steffann> haha tct
2021-05-22T23:23:33 < mawk> also luxembourg tct 
2021-05-22T23:23:53 < mawk> that's the common denominator to all my citizenships: blue white red
2021-05-22T23:24:17 < mawk> also I'm dating a russian girl to add a ne blue white red flag to my collection
2021-05-22T23:24:21 < fenugrec_> so russian too eh
2021-05-22T23:24:34 < mawk> I'm not sure what the law is
2021-05-22T23:24:36 < fenugrec_> and 'murica
2021-05-22T23:24:39 < mawk> if I marry her or something
2021-05-22T23:24:41 < tct> I guess for R2COM the common denominator would be hammer & sickle
2021-05-22T23:24:43 < mawk> yeah no I don't like americans
2021-05-22T23:24:48 < mawk> lol tct 
2021-05-22T23:25:32 < Steffann> you like trump. im sure mawk
2021-05-22T23:25:42 < mawk> not anymore
2021-05-22T23:25:46 < mawk> he disappointed me
2021-05-22T23:26:15 < Steffann> You didnt get Ivanka ?
2021-05-22T23:26:26 < mawk> :(
2021-05-22T23:26:30 < mawk> I don't like blondes a lot
2021-05-22T23:27:30 < tct> dude, blondes are the shit!
2021-05-22T23:29:42 < mawk> why
2021-05-22T23:29:59 < mawk> I have had brunettes, red-hair, black hair; combination of all that
2021-05-22T23:31:17 < mawk> sometimes light brun, almost blonde for the lengths of hair but never fully blonde
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2021-05-22T23:45:19 < mawk> tct Steffann 
2021-05-22T23:45:20 < mawk> wake up
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2021-05-22T23:57:15 < Steffann> Uhm why?
--- Day changed Sun May 23 2021
2021-05-23T00:22:06 < Steffann> Maawk
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2021-05-23T02:56:28 < kakium69> interesting eurovision sauna party
2021-05-23T02:57:52 < kakium69> professional jury points are apparently the bs part
2021-05-23T03:03:03 < zyp> well, duh
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2021-05-23T03:05:21 < kakium69> did you like it zyp?
2021-05-23T03:06:26 < zyp> esc? was fun enough
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2021-05-23T03:11:45 < kakium69> I think UK 0 points was the most interesting part
2021-05-23T03:12:54 < kakium69> 0 points total doesn't just happen
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2021-05-23T05:25:13 < qyx> So small all those packages. So little thing appear to be.  Lost among fingers. So little space betwween pitchs for welding whitout those big machines.  And already so much inside and so few outside. My PCB finally always very big. Sorry my english.
2021-05-23T05:26:03 < qyx> (a random ti.com forum dude complaining about a QFN ethernet phy)
2021-05-23T05:27:08 < qyx> hey DP83TD510 is in stock, how that happened
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2021-05-23T08:58:38 < jly> fuck
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2021-05-23T11:08:23 < Steffann> Come on.. everyone knows its a joke kakium69  
2021-05-23T11:10:06 < Steffann> The scoring I mean
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2021-05-23T13:58:29 < jpa-> meh, frying a chip is much more annoying when you can't buy a new one
2021-05-23T14:19:16 < Sadale> I'm annoyed that many of the STM32 chips are out of stock as well :(
2021-05-23T14:19:33 < Sadale> It kinds of make me want to use other chips for my future projects.
2021-05-23T14:20:18 < Steffann> Efm32 will be the new stm32
2021-05-23T14:21:13 < Steffann> Or maybe nrf32
2021-05-23T14:25:14 < Steffann> So what did you fry mr jpa- ? Maybe ##stm32 brokers have stock
2021-05-23T14:29:57 < jpa-> ATSAMD21G18A-AUT
2021-05-23T14:30:02 < jpa-> true arduino crap
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2021-05-23T14:45:08 < Steffann> Oh one of those with the most amazing peripheral SERCOM
2021-05-23T14:55:31 < zyp> anything wrong with SERCOM?
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2021-05-23T14:59:22 < Steffann> Nah, the pin config is a bit weird and needs some special attention 
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2021-05-23T15:40:53 < dongs_> just use GD32
2021-05-23T15:40:55 < dongs_> better quality clone
2021-05-23T15:40:57 < dongs_> and available
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2021-05-23T17:45:00 < mawk> :(
2021-05-23T17:51:37 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurence@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-05-23T17:57:04 < Steffanx> :)
2021-05-23T17:57:09 < Steffanx> be happy mawk 
2021-05-23T18:10:47 < qyx> https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32L462CEU6?qs=ObEXV34I18N3Llhnm90Lnw%3D%3D
2021-05-23T18:10:50 < qyx> wtf
2021-05-23T18:11:03 < qyx> I was fighting for the last 10 like a week or two ago
2021-05-23T18:13:48 < Laurenceb> I walked past Pektron yesterday
2021-05-23T18:14:12 < Laurenceb> I found all the missing components
2021-05-23T18:14:48 < Laurenceb> they have boxes stacked to the ceiling in the reception area and shipping containers stacked in the car park
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2021-05-23T18:49:36 < Mangy_Dog> qyx thats a rather impressive little chip
2021-05-23T18:49:40 < Mangy_Dog> shame about the price
2021-05-23T18:50:00 < qyx> wat, it is actually pretty cheap for the features it provides
2021-05-23T18:50:58 < Mangy_Dog> £6.50 per chip seems a bit high for me :/
2021-05-23T18:51:05 < Mangy_Dog> but
2021-05-23T18:51:09 < Mangy_Dog> 512KB flash is nice
2021-05-23T18:51:49 < Mangy_Dog> tbh id just like to see f103s down at 50p per chip again:/
2021-05-23T18:51:55 < Mangy_Dog> its been a few years since i saw that
2021-05-23T19:01:42 < Steffann> Just move on Mangy_Dog ;)
2021-05-23T19:11:52 < Mangy_Dog> youre not wrong tbh
2021-05-23T19:12:49 < Mangy_Dog> im far too relient on the arduino enviroment
2021-05-23T19:12:54 < Mangy_Dog> i need to move away form it
2021-05-23T19:13:59 < Mangy_Dog> right now the only thing really sticking me in it... i still have some f103s in my parts bin
2021-05-23T19:14:21 < Mangy_Dog> and i highly rely on the gameduino library to run the bt810 graphics chip i use
2021-05-23T19:14:38 < Mangy_Dog> i need to figure out how to make the library portable
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2021-05-23T19:49:24 < mawk> two distinct numbers are selected from the set {1; 2; 3; ...; 37} so that the sum of the remaining 35 numbers is the product of these two numbers. what's the difference between these two numbers?
2021-05-23T19:49:27 < mawk> go to work zyp 
2021-05-23T19:49:30 < mawk> faster
2021-05-23T19:54:58 < R2COM> looking at some ptz ip camera...says it has 30x optical zoom..... not sure if I should believe or not....tiny shit. rifle scopes with 15x zoom are already so bulky... how the fuck they do 30x zoom in little-ass ip ptz camera...
2021-05-23T19:57:56 < R2COM> focus difference..
2021-05-23T19:59:57 < Streaker> small lens. shit aperture.
2021-05-23T20:00:16 < R2COM> another one for similar price says 4x optical zoom.. which does sound realistic
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2021-05-23T20:39:59 < zyp> mawk, you'd select 21 and 31, giving you a difference of 10
2021-05-23T20:40:17 < mawk> yes
2021-05-23T20:44:48 < zyp> problem is 37 * 38 / 2 - x - y = x * y, which is equivalent to 704 = (x + 1) * (y + 1)
2021-05-23T20:45:40 < aandrew> R2COM: I'm working on a medical application where we're getting about 100x zoom with small optics
2021-05-23T20:45:43 < aandrew> I can ask them
2021-05-23T20:45:50 < zyp> 704 is 2**6 * 11, 2**6 is > 37 + 1, so you've got 2**5 - 1 and 2 * 11 - 1
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2021-05-23T21:38:26 < mawk> yes zyp exactly
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2021-05-23T22:27:03 < Laurenceb> #
2021-05-23T22:27:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOLvBXYhGXE
2021-05-23T22:27:38 < Laurenceb> typical murican activities
2021-05-23T22:27:40 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc_m1UlYyvA
2021-05-23T22:27:47 < Laurenceb> typical britbong activities
2021-05-23T22:35:11 < Steffann> fixed it for you Laurenceb https://imgur.com/a/ZsnUApL
2021-05-23T22:35:50 < englishman> wow. self-referencing
2021-05-23T22:37:41 < Steffann> hah
2021-05-23T22:38:30 < Steffann> pro paint skills you know
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2021-05-23T23:42:15 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8crwU7CB_A
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--- Day changed Mon May 24 2021
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2021-05-24T00:39:53 < Laurenceb> oh wow
2021-05-24T00:40:13 < Laurenceb> >thermally protected MOV
2021-05-24T00:40:19 < Laurenceb> power supply is solved
2021-05-24T00:57:26 < qyx> so I was trying to get that damned DMX thing working when I accidentally tried to switch its address from 0 to 1
2021-05-24T00:57:48 < qyx> $%^#$%^ DMX cannot have 0 address?
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2021-05-24T01:52:50 < dongs_> 0 is a special sync / reset address
2021-05-24T01:54:36 < dongs_> i think, its been a while since i fucked with it
2021-05-24T02:01:26 < qyx> now I am flashing firmwarez to ESP8266
2021-05-24T02:02:17 < qyx> I want to check if it is feasible to use it as a AT/sdio wifi client
2021-05-24T02:04:24 < ds2> has anyone looked at the ESP32/ESP8266 for battery power use?
2021-05-24T02:21:21 < qyx> yes, didn't find anything useful
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2021-05-24T03:21:07 < dongs_> < ds2> has anyone looked at the ESP32/ESP8266 for battery power use?
2021-05-24T03:21:09 < dongs_> yeah, don't
2021-05-24T03:21:17 < dongs_> chink 120nm process isnt exactly battery friendly
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2021-05-24T03:42:32 < ds2> it is that bad?
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2021-05-24T03:46:22 < qyx> 67 mA connected
2021-05-24T03:46:39 < qyx> 18 mA if modem sleep works by any chance
2021-05-24T03:46:53 < qyx> I didn't manage to get that DTIM light sleep working
2021-05-24T03:47:06 < qyx> only for a brief period, it was like 4 mA
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2021-05-24T05:45:56 < dongs_> qyx numbers seem to be inline with what i experienced
2021-05-24T05:46:05 < dongs_> some dude wanted to make a bluetooth keyboard using esp1488
2021-05-24T05:46:12 < dongs_> he was complaining battery ran out in like 4 hours
2021-05-24T06:12:45 < englishman> add more batteries? i wouldnt expect a make:r wireless keyboard to weight less than 500lb anyway
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2021-05-24T07:00:27 < jly> rgw dyxj bgjnhkglkjsdfg
2021-05-24T07:00:30 < jly> wait 
2021-05-24T07:00:33 < jly> you guys still use IRC
2021-05-24T07:01:12 < aandrew> no, we're all just a figment of your imagination
2021-05-24T07:04:20 < jly> excellent
2021-05-24T07:04:34 < jly> I'll have something to tell the psychiatrist next time
2021-05-24T07:05:02 < jly> my integrator is being a little strange
2021-05-24T07:31:21 < R2COM> oh man i need to sleep earlier today
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2021-05-24T07:57:27 < R2COM> wow brave browser is indeed so much better in blocking ads
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2021-05-24T13:37:13 < jpa-> meh, classic fail
2021-05-24T13:37:47 < jpa-> chose an inductor for DC-DC boost that gives out about 150mA.. DC current rating 600 mA, should be plenty
2021-05-24T13:37:56 < jpa-> forgot to look at saturation current.. 130 mA
2021-05-24T13:38:01 < jpa-> i now have an efficiency of 50%
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2021-05-24T15:21:21 < Steffann> Do you want moral support or do you want me to be totally disappointed in you, jpa-?
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2021-05-24T15:37:57 < jpa-> Steffann: moral support
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2021-05-24T16:42:02 < dongs_> did you use a 0402 inductor or something
2021-05-24T16:42:17 < dongs_> i had a board that customer designed and asked to assemble
2021-05-24T16:42:38 < dongs_> it had some dc/dc on it which had like 5 mil trace from controller to the "coil" which was a 0402 ferrite bead
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2021-05-24T17:19:36 < Steffann> welcome back from the sauna party kakium69. Got a relaxed mind now?
2021-05-24T17:19:46 < kakium69> no
2021-05-24T17:20:04 < Steffann> i see
2021-05-24T17:20:22 < Steffann> can i help you with that today?
2021-05-24T17:20:28 < kakium69> no
2021-05-24T17:20:34 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-24T17:20:39 < kakium69> musics
2021-05-24T17:20:42 < Steffann> Great.
2021-05-24T17:22:19 < Steffann> enjoy kakium69 (probably a repost) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0AOGeqOnFY
2021-05-24T17:23:47 < jpa-> dongs_: 0805 inductor; but yeah, i should have noticed that it wasn't meant for DC-DC but for filters or something
2021-05-24T17:30:02 < qyx> ouch
2021-05-24T17:30:12 < qyx> been there done that
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2021-05-24T19:35:43 < jpa-> also it seems that i have run into a case where split ground would make sense
2021-05-24T19:36:09 < jpa-> i have DC-DC part and then two stages of ferrite + cap filtering.. the output voltage is clean relative to ground, but the ground plane is dirty
2021-05-24T19:36:23 < jpa-> not sure yet why it is so dirty though, maybe i'm doing something stupid
2021-05-24T19:37:08 < jpa-> i'm seeing several mV spikes over a couple centimeters distance on a solid ground plane
2021-05-24T19:40:31 < jpa-> hmm, which would be about 1 A current spikes.. i guess that is not unreasonably high
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2021-05-24T22:37:49 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-05-24T22:37:49 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-05-24T22:37:50 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-05-24T22:37:59 < mawk> I'm starting nederlands classes tomorrow
2021-05-24T22:38:01 < mawk> 8h/week
2021-05-24T22:38:21 < mawk> I am soon a very dutch dutchman
2021-05-24T22:41:33 < Steffann> Oh fuck 
2021-05-24T22:43:11 < mawk> yes
2021-05-24T22:43:32 < BrainDamage> I read that as neanderthals classes
2021-05-24T22:43:38 < mawk> :(
2021-05-24T22:48:25 < Steffann> ik ben mawk, ik ben xx jaar. Mijn hobbies zijn wiskunde en programmeren. ?
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2021-05-24T22:52:10 < mawk> ja
2021-05-24T22:52:17 < mawk> prima
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--- Day changed Tue May 25 2021
2021-05-25T00:00:40 < Getty> yeah its probably dutch classes then ;) or do they really call it netherland class???
2021-05-25T00:04:11 < Steffann> He was mixing dutch and english
2021-05-25T00:04:27 < Steffann> Dutch = nederlands 
2021-05-25T00:05:39 < Getty> yeah no ;) i mean, i know the exact words and its dutch the language, nederlands is the country ;)
2021-05-25T00:06:40 < Getty> but what do i say! everybody should have seen the CGP Grey video
2021-05-25T00:06:54 < Getty> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc&ab_channel=CGPGreyCGPGrey :D
2021-05-25T00:08:14 < Steffann> Nederland is the country, not Nederlands ;)
2021-05-25T00:11:46 < qyx> weather pros
2021-05-25T00:11:55 < qyx> where do you buy your weather monitoring gadgets?
2021-05-25T00:12:19 < qyx> I need a not-so-make:r radiation shield
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2021-05-25T01:08:30 < englishman> I'd also like to know
2021-05-25T01:08:40 < englishman> recently trashed my acu-rite
2021-05-25T01:09:01 < englishman> not really interested in spending $250 to get the same shit that will only last 4 years
2021-05-25T01:39:39 < Getty> I just had a flashback from my last 3 keyboards, cause of your sentence ;)
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2021-05-25T02:49:45 < qyx> my last 3 keyboards were 4 € chiclets of the "hama" brand
2021-05-25T02:50:05 < qyx> one survives about 3 years
2021-05-25T02:50:57 < qyx> https://www.mall.sk/klavesnice/hama-casano-czsk-53813
2021-05-25T02:51:04 < qyx> uh huh it is 8.40 € now
2021-05-25T02:51:09 < qyx> such expensive
2021-05-25T02:55:28 < zyp> aww
2021-05-25T02:56:34 < zyp> I'm on my second apple keyboard
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2021-05-25T02:57:17 < zyp> managed to bend the first one one time I was moving and didn't pack it well enough
2021-05-25T02:58:04 < zyp> I think first one lasted eight years, and the current one is probably on its fifth
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2021-05-25T02:58:35 < ds2> are they BT keyboards?
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2021-05-25T03:59:44 < kakium69> god morgon jly
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2021-05-25T04:15:42 < jly> fuckin ello mate
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2021-05-25T04:47:24 < jly> OI MATE
2021-05-25T04:56:19 < kakium69> oi oi
2021-05-25T04:57:57 < kakium69> just watching me, myself & irene
2021-05-25T04:58:10 < kakium69> I have somehow missed this one
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2021-05-25T05:14:25 < jly> it's okay
2021-05-25T05:14:28 < jly> just put it
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2021-05-25T06:25:30 < R2COM> those mini projectors on sale all have amount of hrs in specification, so they are limited lifetime i assume? (never owned such stuff before)
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2021-05-25T07:59:35 < Streaker> all projectors come with a lifetime hours specification for the light source.
2021-05-25T08:03:04 < aandrew> R2COM: all projectors treat the light source as a consumable
2021-05-25T08:03:16 < aandrew> they're a high stress item
2021-05-25T08:30:27 < zyp> ds2, no, the usb ones
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2021-05-25T08:41:31 < R2COM> ok
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2021-05-25T13:45:02 < jpa-> tomorrow i shall see if this improves things or not  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/split_gnd.jpg
2021-05-25T13:48:01 < kakium69> is it an amp?
2021-05-25T13:48:17 < jpa-> yeah, differential amplifier for scope probe
2021-05-25T13:48:28 < jpa-> but the pictured section is R1283 dc-dc
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2021-05-25T18:40:08 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-05-25T18:40:28 < Laurenceb> so I have a problem
2021-05-25T18:40:47 < Laurenceb> I have a fused power supply that connects to a system with a 5A circuit breaker
2021-05-25T18:41:04 < Laurenceb> at trip currents of ~25A or so the breaker fires before the fuse blows
2021-05-25T18:41:15 < Laurenceb> I've seen this problem on domestic appliances
2021-05-25T18:41:22 < Laurenceb> is there any solution?
2021-05-25T18:42:41 < karlp> what sort of fuse do you have?
2021-05-25T18:42:53 < karlp> what's the current profile like that gets you to 25?
2021-05-25T18:43:16 < karlp> do you ramp up to that? you mgiht want to look at the curve profiles for your breakers, and also what curves you're legally allowed to use,
2021-05-25T18:43:57 < karlp> breakers are nowhere _near_ as "magicall stop over x A" as they might like you to believe.
2021-05-25T18:54:07 < Laurenceb> yeah I know
2021-05-25T18:54:14 < Laurenceb> I've got a 7x2mm SMD fuse
2021-05-25T18:54:42 < Laurenceb> I'm just simulating resistive shorts that give 25A current
2021-05-25T18:55:04 < zyp> so basically your fuse isn't fast enough?
2021-05-25T18:55:16 < Laurenceb> so 0A->25A then thats maintained for ~15ms before the circuit breaker triggers
2021-05-25T18:55:37 < Laurenceb> zyp: I cant use a more sensitive fuse because it will trigger from capacitor inrush current
2021-05-25T18:58:32 < Laurenceb> maybe I should add inrush current limiting
2021-05-25T18:58:41 < Laurenceb> and use a fast fuse
2021-05-25T18:58:48 < zyp> so your inrush current is so large that you can't have a fuse that trips before the breaker?
2021-05-25T18:58:59 < zyp> sounds like your inrush current is too large, yeah
2021-05-25T19:00:34 < karlp> inrush limit sounds like a very good idea, yes :)
2021-05-25T19:00:41 < karlp> hwo much input cap do you have?!
2021-05-25T19:01:24 < karlp> you're "simulating" that gives 25A, but you are tripping the breaker? what are you doing?
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2021-05-25T19:12:33 < Laurenceb> I've got 400uF of caps at 160VDC
2021-05-25T19:13:07 < Laurenceb> they are very low ESR, ESR of the cap pack is about 20 milliohms
2021-05-25T19:17:38 < Laurenceb> hmm this is a little insane
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2021-05-25T19:38:35 < karlp> so... what are you even hoping for?
2021-05-25T19:38:40 < karlp> what do you want the fuse to pop at?
2021-05-25T19:38:54 < karlp> and if the breaker is 5A, and it's doing the right thing. just.... drop the fuse?
2021-05-25T19:42:45 < Streaker> Use a PTC inrush current limiting resistor?
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2021-05-25T19:48:15 < Laurenceb> Streaker: that might not work correctly if the power is cycled rapidly
2021-05-25T19:48:35 < Laurenceb> karlp: there is other hardware running off the breaker
2021-05-25T19:48:57 < Laurenceb> so I want the fuse to fire before the breaker if the power supply breaks
2021-05-25T19:49:11 < Laurenceb> but I dont want the fuse to be triggered by inrush current
2021-05-25T19:50:04 < sync> you can use a fet inrush limiter
2021-05-25T19:50:13 < sync> but that's suprisingly expensive as I found out
2021-05-25T19:50:45 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-05-25T19:51:06 < Laurenceb> maybe I could just add a resistor
2021-05-25T19:51:37 < Laurenceb> time to try spice
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2021-05-25T20:52:10 < Laurenceb> arggggg
2021-05-25T20:52:24 < Laurenceb> needs a 4.7ohm resistor, too much power loss
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2021-05-25T20:56:49 < Ultrasauce> put a fet across the resistor
2021-05-25T20:58:47 < jpa-> or just the classic mosfet inrush current limiter?
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2021-05-25T22:49:29 < englishman> put an inrush resistor on your resistor
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2021-05-25T23:10:29 < 125AAAJOB> such rage quit
2021-05-25T23:10:32 < 125AAAJOB> lol
2021-05-25T23:10:53 -!- 125AAAJOB is now known as Steffann
2021-05-25T23:11:06 < karlp> (put in a second 5A breaker....)
2021-05-25T23:11:21 < karlp> call it a feature, independent control...
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--- Day changed Wed May 26 2021
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2021-05-26T01:22:05 < qyx> ads131e04 in stock
2021-05-26T01:22:21 < qyx> <surprised_pikachu.jpg>
2021-05-26T01:23:28 < qyx> anyone used that one?
2021-05-26T01:24:08 < qyx> I am pretty curious why do they say REFN must be connected to ground
2021-05-26T01:24:32 < qyx> using internal reference implicates it as it is connected between AVSS and VREFP
2021-05-26T01:25:09 < qyx> but they don't mention if the same applies when using an external one
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2021-05-26T01:50:39 < upgrdman> anyone know of a simple dc/dc IC that can take 5V in and output 3v3, +15 and -15 ?
2021-05-26T01:59:27 < specing> sounds like an rs323 charge pump
2021-05-26T01:59:29 < specing> 232*
2021-05-26T01:59:50 < upgrdman> most rs232 ic's i see are +/- 7V
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2021-05-26T05:39:26 < R2COM> yo
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2021-05-26T06:00:49 < englishman> wow wtf freechode
2021-05-26T06:01:02 < englishman> a small opensores project moved to liberia
2021-05-26T06:01:13 < englishman> and put the topic to indicate such
2021-05-26T06:01:36 < englishman> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/5OiufI74.html
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2021-05-26T06:07:23 < Ultrasauce> yep they are going through the list
2021-05-26T06:51:09 < aandrew> really wonder wtf they think they'll accomplish
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2021-05-26T07:34:15 < t4nk_freenode> I think they're trying to end corruption!
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2021-05-26T14:04:30 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Ultrasauce] by ChanServ
2021-05-26T14:05:41 <@Ultrasauce> STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | https://www.adobe.com/ca/legal/permissions/trademarks.html | ==> li🅱️era.chat
2021-05-26T14:05:51 <@Ultrasauce> i am a competent irc operator
2021-05-26T14:05:57 -!- Ultrasauce changed the topic of ##stm32 to: ##stm32 STM32 | This channel is publicly logged ( http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/ ) | IRC wisdom: https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips | Don't ask to ask | http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ | And cats | Channel rules: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/checklist.html | https://www.adobe.com/ca/legal/permissions/trademarks.html | ==> li🅱️era.chat
2021-05-26T14:06:40 -!- Ultrasauce [~sauce@omae.wa.mou.shindei.ru] has quit [Quit: Exodus]
2021-05-26T14:09:11 < jpa-> so, we are really moving?
2021-05-26T14:10:26 -!- Irssi: ##stm32: Total of 108 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 107 normal]
2021-05-26T14:11:05 < PaulFertser> Isn't mass channels takeover by new admins not convincing enough?
2021-05-26T14:11:47 < karlp> I've got fuckign zero faith in libera being any better. jsut egos everywhere.
2021-05-26T14:12:07 < karlp> the amount of fucking tard zealots ranting in all directions is such a global time suck.
2021-05-26T14:12:08 < jpa-> yeah, i just want to chat
2021-05-26T14:12:11 < PaulFertser> Those admins were not hijacking channels before, were they?
2021-05-26T14:12:17 < jpa-> not reconfigure irssi or whatever
2021-05-26T14:12:49 < karlp> well, they've already violated their own published terms by handing out "personal" cloaks on libera, so it's not like they're some flawless paragons.
2021-05-26T14:13:01 < PaulFertser> Heh
2021-05-26T14:13:02 < karlp> people have always complained about freenode, libera is "same"
2021-05-26T14:13:18 < PaulFertser> But current freenode is apparently worse than that
2021-05-26T14:14:44 < PaulFertser> Would discussing jew nigger software and hardware for lusers be tolerated on OFTC though?
2021-05-26T14:16:08 < karlp> well, I've had a "chat" channel there for years
2021-05-26T14:16:09 < karlp> so.... maybe?
2021-05-26T14:16:19 < karlp> we're still nominally on topic a lot of the time.
2021-05-26T14:16:21 < karlp> that's all they ask.
2021-05-26T14:16:21 < PaulFertser> OK, good data point.
2021-05-26T14:17:07 < PaulFertser> I mean some newcomers might get offended and complain.
2021-05-26T14:19:12  * karlp shrugs
2021-05-26T14:19:37 < karlp> I can certainly see _this_ channel being more at home somewhere where "muh fr33d0ms" are "preserved" 
2021-05-26T14:19:54 < karlp> some others I htink should consider moving to oftc rather than following the circus...
2021-05-26T14:21:17 < englishman> what channel in oftc?
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2021-05-26T14:44:19 < karlp> if you reallllly want to loiter with a friends chat from my uni days, I could tell you... or you could go there and stalk me I guess...
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2021-05-26T14:50:17 < jadew> say hello to my newest buddy: http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210526_144007.jpg
2021-05-26T14:50:55 < karlp> nice push button power.
2021-05-26T14:51:33 < jadew> single button devices, they were in trend a couple of years ago
2021-05-26T14:51:50 < jadew> I'm thinking about adding a led indicator
2021-05-26T14:52:35 < jadew> the squiggly line isn't as obvious as I'd want it to be
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2021-05-26T15:36:57 < b-rex> https://www.zakzyz.com/xeros 
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2021-05-26T15:57:10 < karlp> hrm, gnome/networkmanager or someone doesn't really approve of me having a usb-ethernet dongle plugged into this usb3/thunderbolt dock, which also has an ethernet port on it...
2021-05-26T15:57:18 < karlp> enabling one autodisablels the other and viceversa.
2021-05-26T16:00:19 < jpa-> network damager often seems to insist that i should only have one network connection
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2021-05-26T16:11:29 < jadew> are deliveries that go through customs slow everywhere else too?
2021-05-26T16:11:43 < jadew> (in the past month or so)
2021-05-26T16:12:39 < kakium69> nope
2021-05-26T16:13:02 < jadew> I have a package stuck in customs for one month with regular post and a week with DHL
2021-05-26T16:13:08 < jpa-> they are scheduled to become slow here in july
2021-05-26T16:13:24 < jadew> jpa-, did they say why?
2021-05-26T16:14:07 < jpa-> finland will start doing customs processing on all packages coming from outside EU; no minimum price exception anymore
2021-05-26T16:14:16 < jadew> same here
2021-05-26T16:14:33 < jadew> I think that's why there are delays now (people bought in anticipation)
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2021-05-26T16:16:43 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/tulli.png   fortunately finnish customs is very helpful.. first got reply with "Rejected: Fix type of preceding document.", then "Rejected: Fix type of preceding document, still erroneous." .. contacted support, they said "Well, try 337 then" .. "Rejected: Fix type of preceding document, still erroneous. Correct 821 (T1 procedure)"
2021-05-26T16:17:36 < jadew> that sucks, in here they're not that picky, they're just overwhelmed
2021-05-26T16:18:16 < jpa-> the customs form for individuals is actually quite nice and easy, but i'm not sure why they make the form for companies so crazy
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2021-05-26T16:18:45 < jpa-> i get that there has to be a way to indicate that you are going to use the PCBs to construct a weapon of mass destruction, but that shouldn't be the default setting
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2021-05-26T16:46:20 < jadew> they don't care about that
2021-05-26T16:46:35 < jadew> I only deal with that type of stuff when exporting
2021-05-26T16:46:47 < jadew> and when buying from the US
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2021-05-26T18:32:20 < jpa-> so.. if i have an oscilloscope probe that has exchangeable tips with 1:1, 1:10 or 1:100 attenuation, and then i have differential amplifier with 1x or 10x gain, what would be the clearest way to mark this?
2021-05-26T18:32:37 < jpa-> because for some reason 10x scope probe usually means 0.1x and vice versa
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2021-05-26T18:36:56 < PaulFertser> Probably mark the probes with something like 1:10 and the amp with 10x in an "opamp triangle"?
2021-05-26T18:37:49 < jpa-> yeah.. i can also just write "10x gain" and that is hopefully obvious enough
2021-05-26T18:38:15 < PaulFertser> It's kinda obvious too that a passive probe has attenuation rather than gain specified :)
2021-05-26T18:38:52 < englishman> 0.1x attenuation
2021-05-26T18:39:05 < englishman> = 10x gain
2021-05-26T18:39:11 < englishman> so mark it 0.1x probe
2021-05-26T18:39:28 < PaulFertser> Probably too unconventional
2021-05-26T18:39:53 < jpa-> yeah, i fear that would just add to the confusion, even though it is consistent
2021-05-26T18:40:11 < jpa-> i could mark the amplifier with "0.1x attenuation" but that just sounds weird
2021-05-26T18:45:05 < englishman> remark all your other probes with "0.1x gain"
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2021-05-26T20:37:20 < fest> > jpa-: tomorrow i shall see if this improves things or not  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/split_gnd.jpg
2021-05-26T20:37:22 < fest> did it?
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2021-05-26T21:03:28 < jpa-> fest: unfortunately i did not get that far yet, maybe tomorrow :)
2021-05-26T21:04:12 < jpa-> jadew: a few months ago we were discussing this series vs. parallel termination thing; now i have some measurements: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/series_vs_parallel_termination.png
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2021-05-26T21:04:39 < jpa-> a clear difference, not a huge one but still significant
2021-05-26T21:05:10 < jpa-> not sure if the bump in the first one is two or three reflections over the 1 meter cable
2021-05-26T21:07:07 < jpa-> (funnily the output in blue signal is sharper than the reference in channel one; might be that i still have a bit of excess gain in highest frequencies)
2021-05-26T21:07:51 < zyp> is this still isolator, or something else?
2021-05-26T21:08:11 < jpa-> zyp: differential probe thingy this time
2021-05-26T21:08:24 < zyp> bandwidth?
2021-05-26T21:08:29 < jpa-> 100MHz or so
2021-05-26T21:08:56 < zyp> nice
2021-05-26T21:08:58 < qyx> jpa-: I was about to ask
2021-05-26T21:09:26 < zyp> hmm, UPS still says «Estimated delivery: Wednesday, May 26 by End of Day» for my new riglol
2021-05-26T21:09:41 < zyp> I think end of day was hours ago
2021-05-26T21:10:29 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/rev2_opa659.jpg   removable tweezer probes for low voltage low capacitance measurements (one-side insulating so can probe between IC pins), and 3.5mm connector for higher voltage input cables
2021-05-26T21:11:38 < zyp> looks nice, how is it powered?
2021-05-26T21:12:35 < jpa-> the cable is triax, the other end has BNC and USB  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/rev1_opa659.jpg
2021-05-26T21:12:46 < zyp> ah
2021-05-26T21:14:36 < jpa-> (regarding isolator, i should probably just try to sell it; i got kind of caught up by my enclosure only having UL94 HB rating instead of UL94 V-1, but did the tests myself and it does seem to extinguish.. and not that it is so critically important with the tiny sales volumes it would have)
2021-05-26T21:14:56 < jpa-> (IEC61010 requiring UL94 V-1)
2021-05-26T21:15:20 < zyp> :)
2021-05-26T21:20:02 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/greenpak_edgepulser.png   also found use for another greenpak, now i have used a total of 5!
2021-05-26T21:36:13 < zyp> haha
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2021-05-26T21:43:51 < Laurenceb> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/15F6F/production/_118676998_whiteboard1.jpg
2021-05-26T21:43:55 < Laurenceb> serious business
2021-05-26T21:43:59 < Laurenceb> masterminds at work
2021-05-26T21:44:07 < Laurenceb> >APP
2021-05-26T21:45:30 < fest> jpa-: I'm curious what will your results be. I recently had the honor to debug power supply noise as measured by 14 bit 80MSPS ADC (which I'm still not done with- I still can see the switcher freq. in FFT of the acquired data, but at least the effects are visually imperceptible)
2021-05-26T21:49:12 < Laurenceb> maybe we can destroy a virus with a smartphone application
2021-05-26T21:49:19 < Laurenceb> I mean that makes perfect sense right
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2021-05-26T23:03:26 < qyx> looks overly complicated jpa
2021-05-26T23:03:28 < qyx> whats that
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2021-05-26T23:03:52 < qyx> oh does the greenpak designer run on lunices?
2021-05-26T23:04:43 < qyx> 8.661 In Stock
2021-05-26T23:04:53  * qyx implementing cortex-m0 with greenpaks
2021-05-26T23:13:12 < englishman> sell the core to ST
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2021-05-26T23:37:44 < Laurenceb> anyone here any good with SPICE?
2021-05-26T23:37:53 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to import a MOV model
2021-05-26T23:37:59 < Laurenceb> into LTSPICE
2021-05-26T23:38:33 < Laurenceb> I'm getting "missing expression in "a3=3d0 ="
2021-05-26T23:39:02 < Laurenceb> using Varistors_DA_SPICE_Model_lib.mht from littlefuse
2021-05-26T23:44:20 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-05-26T23:44:21 < Laurenceb> https://groups.io/g/LTspice/topic/importing_a_txt_library_into/69673479
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2021-05-26T23:50:12 < qyx> *littelfuse
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2021-05-26T23:58:58 < turnip420> Does anyone even make unregulated power supplies anymore
2021-05-26T23:59:08 < turnip420> is that even a thing?
2021-05-26T23:59:38 < turnip420> Say I have a 120V mains powered device that needs 2A@5V
2021-05-26T23:59:44 < turnip420> Flyback?
--- Day changed Thu May 27 2021
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2021-05-27T00:01:43 < qyx> yes
2021-05-27T00:02:14 < turnip420> Yes to flyback?
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2021-05-27T00:02:41 < turnip420> My application I'm feeding 4x SMPS on the 5V side
2021-05-27T00:02:52 < qyx> yeah, 10 W is in the range of common flyback ac/dc converters
2021-05-27T00:03:13 < turnip420> Cool
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2021-05-27T00:04:03 < qyx> there are nice modules by traco, recom, meanwell, ...
2021-05-27T00:04:18 < qyx> aimtec
2021-05-27T00:05:06 < turnip420> Yeah that's the move
2021-05-27T00:05:13 < turnip420> I just need to find one that fits
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2021-05-27T01:20:14 < upgrdman> anyone have a favorite movie player for windows? smplayer is nice, but inefficent. vlc is efficient but buggy :/
2021-05-27T01:31:01 < qyx> is it?
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2021-05-27T01:35:34 < englishman> mpc-hc
2021-05-27T01:50:21 < upgrdman> englishman, mpc-hc is also rediculously inefficient :( playing a video in vlc has my gpu at 34%, same video in mpc-hc has my gpu at 57%
2021-05-27T01:50:58 < englishman> usually when im playing a video i have the video open, not the task manager
2021-05-27T01:51:09 < upgrdman> i kinda wonder how so many video players manage to fuck this up. maybe theyre using hw decoding, but then copying it to cpu memory, then copying it back to gpu memory... instead of leaving it all on the gpu
2021-05-27T01:51:52 < upgrdman> englishman, ya me too, but im checking cpu/gpu usage because wasted power means unnecessary fan noise and reduced battery life
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2021-05-27T03:27:48 < jadew> upgrdman, what's wrong with vlc?
2021-05-27T03:29:41 < upgrdman> jadew, it's buggy. sometimes when i "fast forward" the video glitches like a corrupt GIF for a few second. sometimes when i un-fullscreen, the window is positioned at some weird location instead of it's original location. etc. lots of little shit. nothing critical, but it seems like poor attention to detail for such a well known project
2021-05-27T03:30:10 < jadew> upgrdman, I haven't encountered that
2021-05-27T03:30:20 < jadew> maybe try a different version?
2021-05-27T03:30:36 < upgrdman> jadew, im on the newest version. maybe they dont like my intel igpu?
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2021-05-27T03:31:40 < kakium69> how is freenode wars?
2021-05-27T03:39:39 < kakium69> tf 105 nicks
2021-05-27T03:40:01 < kakium69> szshoudld it be like 120
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2021-05-27T04:06:35 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1cCU62loqU
2021-05-27T04:13:11 < englishman> nice, very well done
2021-05-27T04:15:03 < kakium69> sun is rising englishman
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2021-05-27T06:26:14 < turnip420> Anyone know of a wifi module that works over sdio, decent supply, good linux support
2021-05-27T06:26:23 < turnip420> Integrated antenna
2021-05-27T06:26:35 < turnip420> I asked on Reddit and people were like oh yeah use the esp8266
2021-05-27T06:27:36 < turnip420> To my knowledge that thing works over SPI and if for connecting ardueno's to the AWS cloud to log the moisture level of soil in moms plants
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2021-05-27T08:08:04 < jpa-> qyx: it's just a 1kHz square wave generator with fast edges; i paralleled two outputs with 100 ohm resistor each
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2021-05-27T08:12:28 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/greenpak_vs_ds1054z_cal.png  at least much faster than DS1054Z calibration output
2021-05-27T09:03:49 < dongs_> turnip420: lead time on most sdio wifi chipsets is like a year+
2021-05-27T09:05:18 < dongs_> modules that used to cost like $6 are going for $20+ for the remaining stocks
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2021-05-27T09:41:39 < qyx> turnip420: esp8266
2021-05-27T09:42:31 < qyx> but tbh I haven't checked myself if the support is okish
2021-05-27T09:43:52 < qyx> but it has official firmwares both for AT commands over UART and SDIO
2021-05-27T10:04:15 < Steffann> But do you like AT commands qyx?
2021-05-27T10:04:39 < Steffann> Or is it actually properly documented and all commands and replies are consistent?
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2021-05-27T10:16:29 < ventyl> i would give it a try. espressif actually cooperated with OSS (read: let OSS fix their shit) a lot, so maybe it works
2021-05-27T10:27:12 < qyx> Steffann: I played with it maybe 3 hours, 2 trying to reflash the firmware with a newer *working* version
2021-05-27T10:27:43 < qyx> so far th docs is good
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2021-05-27T12:30:51 < karlp> there's linux driver support for 8285 or whatever, which is the "sdio only" version of 8266 anyway iirc.
2021-05-27T12:31:30 < ventyl> H7 SPI seems to miss attempt to write into TX FIFO occasionally
2021-05-27T12:31:39 < karlp> hrm, no longer listed on espressive website
2021-05-27T12:31:44 < karlp> "miss attempt"?
2021-05-27T12:31:46 < karlp> what?
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2021-05-27T12:34:40 < karlp> iirc, https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v5.12.7/source/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/net/wireless/esp,esp8089.txt on linux side, and "suitable" firmware flashed to an esp8266 does the right thing...
2021-05-27T12:35:53 < karlp> though I think there may have been niggles with accss to sdio pins....
2021-05-27T12:53:38 < karlp> so, anyone want to guess whether ST will ever stop sending me shipment notifications?
2021-05-27T12:53:58 < karlp> will it happen by itself one day, or it will continue til the end of time until I mange to find the right person to talk to there somehow?
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2021-05-27T13:16:46 < ventyl> karlp: I do "write 8 bits, once TX FIFO has space for them" then "read 8 bits, once RX FIFO contains something"
2021-05-27T13:17:07 < ventyl> and after some time, read is stuck on wait for RX FIFO
2021-05-27T13:17:48 < ventyl> SPI registers seem to show completely valid SPI state, no error flag, no dropped MASTER, no nothing
2021-05-27T13:18:32 < jpa-> fest: so here are my results: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/split_gnd_comparison.png
2021-05-27T13:19:00 < jpa-> looks like it eliminated the middle harmonics so that the noise no longer looks like a square wave, but the fundamental frequency and the sharpest spikes were not reduced as much
2021-05-27T13:19:07 < karlp> how do you read whether it has space?
2021-05-27T13:19:25 < ventyl> i check for TXP flag being set
2021-05-27T13:19:43 < ventyl> if it is set, then TX FIFO has enough space for one write to succeed
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2021-05-27T13:21:46 < ventyl> similarly for RX FIFO I check RXP flag
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2021-05-27T14:37:21 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/bYyTKpT
2021-05-27T14:37:30 < Laurenceb> muh power supply protector
2021-05-27T14:37:36 < Laurenceb> this seems overcomplex
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2021-05-27T14:39:26 < jpa-> i had already forgotten what Laurenceb code looks like
2021-05-27T14:39:34 < jpa-> now that Laurenceb schematic brought that back to my mind
2021-05-27T14:41:21 < qyx> your picture is filtered out
2021-05-27T14:41:31 < Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/bYyTKpT.png
2021-05-27T14:42:05 < qyx> ok
2021-05-27T14:42:18 < qyx> there are some spaces missing
2021-05-27T14:45:03 < zyp> jpa-, haha, wtf
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2021-05-27T15:11:00 < Laurenceb> whats that surface mount debug connector called?
2021-05-27T15:11:03 < Laurenceb> with the pins
2021-05-27T15:12:48 < Laurenceb> tagconnect?
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2021-05-27T15:25:37 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips/blob/master/cortex-debug-headers-cables.md#proprietary-shit
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2021-05-27T16:28:28 < englishman> lol
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2021-05-27T16:32:38 < kakium69> how is irc wars?
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2021-05-27T16:35:42 < englishman> does anyone have a usb-c dock to recommend with ethernet and hdmi? usb is a bonus. or should i just get whatever looks small and nice from anker on amadongs
2021-05-27T16:36:01 < englishman> https://www.amazon.ca/Anker-Upgraded-Adapter-Ethernet-Pixelbook/dp/B07X8ZLYLR/
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2021-05-27T16:37:26 < kakium69> can you find similar deltaco?
2021-05-27T16:38:31 < kakium69> anker is inferior brand
2021-05-27T16:39:01 < zyp> I like the one I got, but it's a noname shit I picked up from amazon jp
2021-05-27T16:39:38 < kakium69> englishman: deltaco USBC-1273 ?
2021-05-27T16:40:15 < zyp> the one I got has a socket rather than a tethered cable, so I'm using it with a 1m cable rather than having it hanging 10cm from the laptop
2021-05-27T16:40:23 < zyp> would absolutely buy that again
2021-05-27T16:40:31 < zyp> fuck tethered cables
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2021-05-27T16:41:58 < kakium69> ah deltaco is nordic brand
2021-05-27T16:42:20 < zyp> deltaco is a whitelabel brand, isn't it?
2021-05-27T16:42:55 < sync> from what it looks like they also just rebrand whatever they can find
2021-05-27T16:43:14 < zyp> that's what I mean
2021-05-27T16:43:25 < kakium69> but their shit is good
2021-05-27T16:43:41 < zyp> whitelabel brand as in they put their brand on whitelabel products
2021-05-27T16:43:51 < kakium69> yes
2021-05-27T16:44:27 < zyp> and yeah, it's usually decent, I've got a bunch of deltaco cables
2021-05-27T16:44:39 < kakium69> especially those cables
2021-05-27T16:44:47 < kakium69> just take eternal abuse
2021-05-27T16:45:18 < aandrew> I have a number of HDMI/ethernet/usb usb-c docks. they're more o rless generic these days, just find a style you like
2021-05-27T16:45:43 < aandrew> finding one with a usb-c socket rather than fixed cable is the unicorn
2021-05-27T16:45:59 < zyp> yeah, I figure they're all based on the same few variants of chips
2021-05-27T16:48:28 < englishman> it certainly looks to be a unicorn
2021-05-27T16:48:42 < englishman> maybe so people don't fuck up which usb-c is upstream and which is downstream?
2021-05-27T16:48:55 < sync> or with cables that are not active
2021-05-27T16:49:00 < sync> so it just works™
2021-05-27T16:51:17 < englishman> oh right you need a tagged cable for usb3
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2021-05-27T16:55:51 < karlp> fucking tried to get back to dev work after weeks of 3d and labelling, complexity studio is giving me the fucking shits again.
2021-05-27T16:56:08 < karlp> I'm almost at the point of, "fuck the hardware being better and cheaper, I just cnat' fucking _use_ it"
2021-05-27T16:58:53 < karlp> added a component, tried to re-run: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/Fb8Vj.png
2021-05-27T16:58:55 < karlp> no further info.
2021-05-27T16:59:03 < karlp> make from the command line works?!
2021-05-27T16:59:05 < karlp> wtf
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2021-05-27T17:09:20 < Laurenceb> any LTSPICE users here?
2021-05-27T17:09:29 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to add a custom library
2021-05-27T17:09:49 < Laurenceb> but I cant view subdirectories within the library in ltspice
2021-05-27T17:10:07 < Laurenceb> the default library has [name] for the subdirectories
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2021-05-27T17:30:20 < Laurenceb> hmm wtf is going on
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2021-05-27T18:16:01 < jadew> official image of a lab stand on aliexpress: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1eRSPOVXXXXXZaXXXq6xXFXXXJ/1-SET-Laboratory-Stands-Support-and-Laboratory-Clamp-Lab-Clips-Flask-Clamp-Condenser-Clamp-Stands-600mm.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp
2021-05-27T18:16:22 < jadew> they were in such a rush they didn't give a shit about it being crooked
2021-05-27T18:24:34 < ventyl> englishman: i have dock branded as i-tec. works fine
2021-05-27T18:25:02 < ventyl> englishman: it is probably generic chinesium but fairly priced and works
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2021-05-27T18:55:45 < ventyl> karlp: um, so, actually, the whole SPI is stuck
2021-05-27T18:57:55 < Ad0> is it possible for an MPU with 1 GB RAM + wifi / BLE to stay below 145 mW ? 
2021-05-27T18:58:13 < Ad0> or is that  definitive MCU territory
2021-05-27T18:59:04 < qyx> google for imx6ull + lpddr2
2021-05-27T18:59:06 < qyx> or 3
2021-05-27T18:59:18 < Ad0> those are expensive AF
2021-05-27T18:59:33 < Ad0> thanks I will check it once more
2021-05-27T18:59:36 < qyx> I came to a conclusion it should be possible with lpddr
2021-05-27T18:59:47 < Thorn> while stm32f103 is only $115
2021-05-27T19:00:21 < ventyl> how much?
2021-05-27T19:00:32 < Thorn> https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F103ZET6_C8287.html
2021-05-27T19:00:37 < Ad0> https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN5345.pdf
2021-05-27T19:01:37 < qyx> so 20 mW idle even with DDR3L
2021-05-27T19:01:44 < Ad0> nice
2021-05-27T19:02:08 < Ad0> I am not gonna run CPU burn 24/7 so maybe some temporary capacitor or a battery could do the worst peaks
2021-05-27T19:02:25 < ventyl> Thorn: wtf. even L0 models now cost 5x the price I bought them for
2021-05-27T19:02:41 < Ad0> maybe have a large-ish cap in the power stage that fills up before it turns on
2021-05-27T19:03:52 < Thorn> afaik wi-fi alone will consume 100+ mW on average
2021-05-27T19:04:02 < Ad0> damn
2021-05-27T19:04:16 < Thorn> unless you're going to keep it shut down most if the time
2021-05-27T19:04:49 < Ad0> yeah I think it's too little power to run a linux that runs docker
2021-05-27T19:05:02 < Ad0> it's not gonna fly
2021-05-27T19:05:55 < ventyl> there was this one guy who put linux onto visit card. he had some allwinner A something. maybe go check that one
2021-05-27T19:06:13 < ventyl> yet I doubt it will fall within specs. it will have much less RAM and most probably also consume more energy
2021-05-27T19:06:58 < Ad0> yeah, docker needs RAM and downloading new images will consume a lot over wifi and disk activity
2021-05-27T19:06:59 < Thorn> also I'm not sure you can do 1GB with 6ull, you'd need 2 ram chips for that and it has a 16-bit wide ddr bus
2021-05-27T19:07:10 < Ad0> imagine even doing an OS image update
2021-05-27T19:08:07 < Ad0> I dunno if a capacitor can keep it afloat with extra 150 mW over 5-10 minutes
2021-05-27T19:08:49 < ventyl> that probably only depends on size of the capacitor. worst case you run out of space or manufacturer's willingness to produce such kind of cap
2021-05-27T19:09:17 < jpa-> Ad0: 145 mW when running at full speed, or 145 mW average with some workload?
2021-05-27T19:09:56 < jpa-> capacitors are useful only for a second at most
2021-05-27T19:10:00 < Ad0> right
2021-05-27T19:10:01 < jpa-> add a small li-ion battery
2021-05-27T19:10:58 < Ad0> yeah I was thinking of that
2021-05-27T19:11:15 < Ad0> I just see the benchmark on the MXPs
2021-05-27T19:11:40 < Ad0> 350 ish mW on a benchmark
2021-05-27T19:11:48 < Ad0> also I don't need HDMI and all that crap
2021-05-27T19:12:01 < jpa-> why do you need docker?
2021-05-27T19:12:15 < Ad0> an existing software solution
2021-05-27T19:12:21 < jpa-> ok
2021-05-27T19:12:26 < Ad0> the goal is to avoid rewriting code for MCU or other platform
2021-05-27T19:13:04 < Ad0> I mean it can run directly of course, but you won't save much 
2021-05-27T19:13:08 < ventyl> is it that much of a SW? maybe rewrite will be faster than development of constrained HW from scratch
2021-05-27T19:13:12 < ventyl> and more reliable in the end
2021-05-27T19:13:54 < Ad0> yeah good point but for MCU it will look totally different
2021-05-27T19:14:10 < Ad0> you can imagine software written in C# , java etc
2021-05-27T19:14:18 < Ad0> you would need to port that to C++ or rust or something
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2021-05-27T19:14:34 < Ad0> also all the socket stuff, libraries and everything needed to be adapted 
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2021-05-27T19:15:08 < Ad0> it would mean a total from ground up rewrite for MCU and the only thing that would be common is some application specific logic
2021-05-27T19:15:20 < Ad0> but in another language
2021-05-27T19:15:32 < jpa-> to me it seems like even just 1 GByte of LPDDR will take about 200 mW to keep memory contents
2021-05-27T19:15:57 < jpa-> where is the power coming from?
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2021-05-27T19:16:07 < Thorn> Ad0 you will NOT like it how your server software is going to run on an embedded SoC. you'll run into all kinds of limitations. your wi-fi will be an order of magnitude slower than your laptop wi-fi, all bus bandwidths will be an order of magnitude less, etc.
2021-05-27T19:16:27 < Thorn> IMO you'll have to rewrite it anyway
2021-05-27T19:16:30 < ventyl> many orders of magnitude
2021-05-27T19:16:46 < Thorn> and you're talking about adding more layers
2021-05-27T19:17:24 < ventyl> Ad0: if the stack is not complete weirdo, there is good chance, you'll be able to find many needed components, which will more or less work for you
2021-05-27T19:18:03 < jpa-> hmm, maybe i'm just calculating that LPDDR power usage wrong somehow, considering MX6ULL application note showing so much lower usage
2021-05-27T19:18:05 < Thorn> that's a react developer's approach straight out of a bootcamp, it doesn't have much to do with embedded engineering
2021-05-27T19:18:56 < jpa-> eh, 2007.. ok, was looking at ancient specs
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2021-05-27T19:21:29 < Ad0> Thorn, yeah it was written for embedded but not for such lower power requirements. I have years of experience for this stuff hehe
2021-05-27T19:21:56 < Ad0> ventyl, yeah but you know - lots of work and reintroduction of teething issues
2021-05-27T19:22:08 < ventyl> to me java, c# and docker doesn't sound much like embedded
2021-05-27T19:22:16 < Thorn> +1
2021-05-27T19:22:36 < ventyl> i call it "soft-embedded" covering stuff such as set top boxes and car multimedia shit
2021-05-27T19:22:42 < Ad0> yeah
2021-05-27T19:22:58 < Ad0> it's not "real" embedded as in MCU C++ bare metal
2021-05-27T19:24:13 < Ad0> but it works surprisingly well on things like PI3 etc
2021-05-27T19:24:23 < Ad0> just avoid node js like the plague
2021-05-27T19:24:50 < Ad0> there are some embedded systems that run java as well natively
2021-05-27T19:25:04 < ventyl> personally, I'd avoid PI3 for anything, which should last longer than a year of service and/or must run uninterrupted
2021-05-27T19:25:32 < Ad0> PI3 sucks indeed, but that's mostly because of the pesky microSD
2021-05-27T19:25:54 < Ad0> it's not made for "industrial" either though
2021-05-27T19:25:56 < ventyl> mostly, yet some of them fail entirely
2021-05-27T19:26:29 < Ad0> the bootloader is weird too
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2021-05-27T19:26:58 < Laurenceb> keeek my dad is emailing me again
2021-05-27T19:27:06 < Laurenceb> some epin copypastas here
2021-05-27T19:27:20 < ventyl> Ad0: generic uboot, isn't it?
2021-05-27T19:27:34 < qyx> wat?
2021-05-27T19:27:40 < Laurenceb>  "hello I am available to talk any time, I can talk about choice subjects including opera, ballet, the periodic temple, and Russian history"
2021-05-27T19:27:44 < Ad0> yeah you run uboot but the GPU has a propietary 
2021-05-27T19:27:47 < qyx> rpi has some awesome GPU binary blob as a bootloader
2021-05-27T19:27:49 < Ad0> it's in several stages
2021-05-27T19:27:55 < Laurenceb> he better be trolling
2021-05-27T19:28:09 < Ad0> Laurenceb, haha
2021-05-27T19:28:48 < Laurenceb>  "some of the topics I can talk about would be dangerous to discuss via un-encrypted email"
2021-05-27T19:29:33 < ventyl> like possession of unregistered butter knife?
2021-05-27T19:29:37 < Laurenceb> "I like Russia, I like to talk and think about Russia, I especially like Russian women, they are hot"
2021-05-27T19:29:58 < Laurenceb> I think he must be high again
2021-05-27T19:30:39 < Laurenceb> this email is like a 4chan copypasta
2021-05-27T19:33:55 < kakium69> hello laurencer
2021-05-27T19:35:53 < Laurenceb> aha
2021-05-27T19:36:15 < Laurenceb> he is staying at my brothers cannabis farm according to faceberg
2021-05-27T19:36:19 < Laurenceb> this explains everything
2021-05-27T19:37:00 < Thorn> Laurenceb send him this fine example of Russian culture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tThYxp5kmk
2021-05-27T19:37:34 < kakium69> Laurenceb: your brothers?
2021-05-27T19:37:41 < kakium69> brother's
2021-05-27T19:37:51 < Laurenceb> single
2021-05-27T19:38:02 < Laurenceb> he lives in murica and grows weed
2021-05-27T19:38:35 < kakium69> legally?
2021-05-27T19:40:38 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-05-27T19:43:59 -!- turnip420 [~machinehu@2604:3d08:9381:eb00:e04d:a291:9113:802a] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1]
2021-05-27T19:45:51 < kakium69> which state?
2021-05-27T19:46:24 < Laurenceb> secrit
2021-05-27T19:46:37 < kakium69> when you visit him
2021-05-27T19:46:51 < Laurenceb> rarely
2021-05-27T19:47:32 < kakium69> you hit the bong immediatelly?
2021-05-27T19:48:15 < kakium69> "acclimate"
2021-05-27T19:48:40 < ventyl> fucking portable loudspeakers
2021-05-27T19:51:32 < Steffann> Laurenceb doesn't have a brother
2021-05-27T19:51:54 < Steffann> Except for in blaxterland. 
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2021-05-27T20:55:04 < kakium69> Steffann: he talking nonsense?
2021-05-27T20:55:17 < Steffann> lol idk. but sometimes i believe he does
2021-05-27T20:55:31 < kakium69> like a little boy telling tales?
2021-05-27T20:55:48 < Steffann> yeah
2021-05-27T20:58:28 < kakium69> yeah
2021-05-27T20:58:59 < kakium69> but he doesn't seem pathological liar to me
2021-05-27T20:59:17 < kakium69> more like "for lulz"
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2021-05-27T22:37:46 < fest> jpa-: interesting experiment, thanks for sharing the result. guess 3-4mVpp ripple is a decent result from a 
2021-05-27T22:38:07 < fest> *I'd guess
2021-05-27T22:38:22 < fest> from a non-synchronous smps
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2021-05-27T22:44:05 < fest> in my case, I saw a lot of improvement from simple things: changing to synchronous switcher, moving smps as far away as possible from analog side, having linear post regs with very good psrr in the smps freq range, changing inductors to shielded ones and making sure smps power input trace does not cross the analog side (so, most likely a lot worse 
2021-05-27T22:44:05 < fest> starting point than you have)
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2021-05-27T22:49:28 < qyx> oh analog chats
2021-05-27T22:49:37 < qyx> I have a question then
2021-05-27T22:50:02 < qyx> split ground and vdda, what should I connect LDO GND to, GNDD or GNDA?
2021-05-27T22:51:13 < upgrdman> trying to make a spice model for an stm32 adc pin. anyone know if the sampling capacitor is grounded between samples? i would guess so.
2021-05-27T22:59:02 < machinehum> So in theory I could use the esp-01f (which has ESP8285 onboard), wire in SDIO to a MPU and somehow use this as a wifi modem nativly in linux?
2021-05-27T22:59:13 < machinehum> I would just have to find the driver
2021-05-27T22:59:17 < machinehum> I'm turnip420
2021-05-27T22:59:50 < fest> qyx: I had the exact same question. I thought http://www.hottconsultants.com/techtips/split-gnd-plane.html made more sense, which had the added bonus of not having to decide which ground does LDO reference to 
2021-05-27T23:01:47 < machinehum> https://www.esp8266.com/viewtopic.php?p=84103
2021-05-27T23:01:52 < machinehum> Doesn't seem like it
2021-05-27T23:03:31 < qyx> fest: k I'll just connect it directly underneath of the adc
2021-05-27T23:04:51 < qyx> but hey the ADC explicitly states splitting grund planes
2021-05-27T23:04:57 < qyx> *the datasheet
2021-05-27T23:18:05 < fest> does it also state that agnd and dgnd must be connected with low impedance connection?
2021-05-27T23:37:46 < qyx> nothing like that
2021-05-27T23:38:03 < qyx> AD7124-8, GROUNDING AND LAYOUT
2021-05-27T23:38:05 < qyx> page 72 or so
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2021-05-28T00:47:40 < karlp> neat, pcbway doing bending, moulding and shit.
2021-05-28T00:47:53 < karlp> making the form look like ordering a pcb, but you actually have to still submit for a quote....
2021-05-28T00:47:54 < karlp> but still.
2021-05-28T00:48:03 < karlp> shit's getting cheaper
2021-05-28T00:53:31 < qyx> until July comes
2021-05-28T00:53:39 < qyx> the whole EU is gettint icelanded
2021-05-28T00:53:42 < qyx> *getting
2021-05-28T01:06:29 < karlp> are you losing some threshold and charging on all parcels or something?
2021-05-28T01:06:38 < karlp> still, cheaper, more automated manufacturing services is all win
2021-05-28T01:10:13 < qyx> yes, obligatory customs
2021-05-28T01:12:00 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/tHi95/Screenshot_2021-05-28_00-11-42.png
2021-05-28T01:12:01 < qyx> pro layout
2021-05-28T01:14:08 < qyx> but hey, 8 pieces of 120 ohm bridges will eat 166 mA when excited with 2V5
2021-05-28T01:14:24 < qyx> thats 0.8 W if LDO'd from 5 V
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2021-05-28T01:33:06 < jadew> karlp, did you actually get a quote tho?
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2021-05-28T01:33:08 < jadew> how cheap is it?
2021-05-28T01:33:18 < jadew> qyx, you don't pay customs for PCBs?
2021-05-28T01:33:42 < jadew> I seem to pay customs duties for almost everything so I welcome the July change
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2021-05-28T01:53:07 < ds2> is there a working pcb printer that can do at least 2L, 8mil?
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2021-05-28T02:05:45 < qyx> jadew: no, theres a 120e or so threshold
2021-05-28T02:05:58 < jadew> oh
2021-05-28T02:06:00 < qyx> for classic mail
2021-05-28T02:06:03 < jadew> it's 10e here
2021-05-28T02:06:10 < qyx> and 25e for dhl
2021-05-28T02:06:22 < jadew> wait, no it's 150 for customs
2021-05-28T02:06:25 < jadew> 10 for VAT
2021-05-28T02:07:24 < qyx> probably the same here, no vat either
2021-05-28T02:07:50 < kakium69> in this june finland goes for no threshold
2021-05-28T02:08:06 < qyx> I am lazy to check
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2021-05-28T03:17:40 < karlp> I'm actually ok with paying vat with no threshold, it's the flat rate handling fee per parcel that I can't stand.
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2021-05-28T03:22:01 < kakium69> handling fee
2021-05-28T03:22:06 < kakium69> dhl?
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2021-05-28T04:26:44 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38VEBOseAzM
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2021-05-28T07:35:25 < jpa-> fest: actually the output ripple after the filters is more like 1-2 mV; that measurement is from circuit output, but there is 20x amplification on the board
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2021-05-28T08:17:51 < jpa-> fest: i think the remaining 1.3 MHz noise probably gets coupled in the combined supply / signal cable, and the remaining high-speed spikes are directly coupled either capacitively or inductively because there is only 10 mm between the smps and output amplifier
2021-05-28T08:18:25 < jpa-> but in any case it has dropped below other system noise so mostly "problem solved"
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2021-05-28T09:02:27 < zyp> karlp, here they've introduced pre-payment of VAT to fix it
2021-05-28T09:02:45 < zyp> i.e. you pay VAT directly to the shop, so no customs processing is needed
2021-05-28T09:17:01 < jpa-> https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210528_091413.jpg   i had been wondering why that port is so difficult to insert a cable in
2021-05-28T09:17:36 < zyp> haha
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2021-05-28T09:59:43 < Steffann> Is this your doing jpa- ?
2021-05-28T10:00:58 < jpa-> no, real china quality
2021-05-28T10:01:19 < jpa-> it also had a broken trace on PCB
2021-05-28T10:01:59 < Steffann> They want to sell custom cables :)
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2021-05-28T10:28:28 < mawk> what device is this jpa- 
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2021-05-28T10:42:26 < jpa-> just 4 port usb-serial
2021-05-28T10:42:54 < jpa-> use it for my owon instruments
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2021-05-28T10:44:42 < Steffann> Owon does not have USB?
2021-05-28T10:46:16 < ventyl> another day, another STM32 datashit
2021-05-28T10:48:29 < zyp> ow-on
2021-05-28T10:49:09 < jadew> zyp, does the pre-payment thing work on aliexpress?
2021-05-28T10:49:57 < jpa-> Steffann: at least not in the cheapest crap that is what i buy
2021-05-28T10:50:10 < mawk> what is owon
2021-05-28T10:50:29 < zyp> jadew, yes
2021-05-28T10:50:55 < jadew> I haven't seen it, where is the option?
2021-05-28T10:50:58 < jadew> on the checkout page?
2021-05-28T10:51:03 < zyp> there's no option
2021-05-28T10:51:09 < zyp> if you live in norway, they charge you vat
2021-05-28T10:51:11 < zyp> simple as that
2021-05-28T10:51:17 < jadew> oh
2021-05-28T10:51:26 < jadew> let me check my latest orders
2021-05-28T10:52:24 < jadew> no VAT
2021-05-28T10:53:11 < zyp> here's from my last aliexpress order: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nt9AF.png
2021-05-28T10:53:27 < jadew> yeah, nothing like that on my orders
2021-05-28T10:53:59 < zyp> norway was a bit earlier than EU with this
2021-05-28T10:55:39 < jadew> ah you don't have a threshold anymore?
2021-05-28T10:56:39 < jadew> so maybe they'll wait until July
2021-05-28T10:57:48 < jadew> like karlp said, the VAT is ok, the problem is the handling fee
2021-05-28T10:58:13 < jadew> you buy $2 worth of stuff and pay $10 on top of that
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2021-05-28T11:16:42 < qyx> 24 € on top of that for dhl
2021-05-28T11:19:10 < ventyl> will this still be needed after july?
2021-05-28T11:19:35 < ventyl> tl;dr information was, that the process will be more simple
2021-05-28T11:32:19 < qyx> no see no belief
2021-05-28T11:34:28 < zyp> in theory the threshold was removed 2020-01-01 IIRC
2021-05-28T11:34:35 < zyp> in practice they're not enforcing it yet
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2021-05-28T12:29:30 < jpa-> many of my china packages have arrived through germany lately, but they don't separate the tax in the listing
2021-05-28T12:29:54 < jpa-> so not sure if they are doing proper customs and also cannot discount the VAT in my own taxes
2021-05-28T12:35:33 < zyp> this is the norwegian stuff: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/business-and-organisation/vat-and-duties/vat/foreign/e-commerce-voec/
2021-05-28T12:36:06 < zyp> so I were off by a few months
2021-05-28T12:53:52 < karlp> zyp: what do you mean, pay VAT directly to the shop? which "shop" would get the payment?
2021-05-28T12:54:37 < karlp> I see in the logs now that it's "just handled" by big enough shops like ali...
2021-05-28T12:56:22 < zyp> whoever is accepting payment from me is required to collect VAT and pay that to norway
2021-05-28T12:56:48 < karlp> "required"
2021-05-28T12:57:20 < karlp> I mean, the program is optional to speed pacakges right, you can still just have them arrive with no paperwork and they get normal customs treatment and you pay vat yourself?
2021-05-28T12:57:56 < karlp> because otherwise I just see that sort of thing being, "we're no longer offering business to norway" like all the US sites that can't be arsed with international anything.
2021-05-28T13:00:05 < zyp> «Foreign businesses are liable to registration in the Norwegian VAT Registry when VAT liable turnover exceeds the registration threshold. The VAT registration threshold is 50,000 Norwegian Kroner (NOK) (approx. EUR 5,000, USD 5,500, CNY 38,000) during a 12 months period.»
2021-05-28T13:00:17 < zyp> https://www.skatteetaten.no/globalassets/bedrift-og-organisasjon/voec/sell-charge-and-ship-to-norway---guidelines-for-online-stores-and-marketplaces.pdf
2021-05-28T13:00:36 < karlp> right, I just don't see how they can possibly actualyl enforce it.
2021-05-28T13:02:01 < zyp> as I understand it, it's being aligned with the stuff EU is introducing so that if you're doing the EU one, it's easy to do both
2021-05-28T13:02:25 < zyp> and not doing either is probably gonna lose you a ton of customers
2021-05-28T13:02:49 < karlp> is .no and anyone else actualyl going to refuse packages? on what grounds?
2021-05-28T13:03:19 < karlp> I mean, customers choosing to shop with people making their lives better, sure, 
2021-05-28T13:03:28 < zyp> no, they're gonna get regular customs processing, but the customers aren't gonna like the fees involved
2021-05-28T13:04:17 < zyp> I mean, I'm not gonna buy cheap shit from anywhere knowing that I'll have to pay just as much in import fees
2021-05-28T13:06:52 < zyp> personally I think it's great, because this stuff also cover stuff that were above the old exempt limit
2021-05-28T13:06:57 < jpa-> how will you recognize shops that do VAT correctly?
2021-05-28T13:07:12 < zyp> VAT will be specified at checkout
2021-05-28T13:07:18 < zyp> also there's a list: https://www.skatteetaten.no/globalassets/bedrift-og-organisasjon/voec/registrerte-tilbydere---liste/voec-registrerte-tilbydere-25.5.21.pdf
2021-05-28T13:07:36 < jpa-> that's a nice lise
2021-05-28T13:07:39 < jpa-> *list
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2021-05-28T14:31:40 < karlp> yech.  have a usb device that enumerates, then one second later disconnects.
2021-05-28T14:31:52 < karlp> plugging it into a hub, doesn't even enumerate...
2021-05-28T14:32:18 < karlp> I suspect borked suspend shit, but no idea what to look for.
2021-05-28T14:35:41 < zyp> are you sure it's the device disconnecting and not the host throwing it out due to errors?
2021-05-28T14:36:22 < Thorn> it may crash and stop responsing
2021-05-28T14:36:59 < karlp> could be.
2021-05-28T14:37:09 < Thorn> *responding
2021-05-28T14:37:23 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/M1avj
2021-05-28T14:37:34 < karlp> curently disabling the bt section and seeing if it's the fw load crashing maybe.
2021-05-28T14:38:17 < karlp> heh, I don't think linux likes seeing a usb id that it knows should have bt, _not_ have bt :)
2021-05-28T14:38:55 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/Txw8p
2021-05-28T14:41:04 < karlp> hrm.  /lib/firmware/rtlwifi only has older rev files, that may/may not be compatible with the newer hardwre...
2021-05-28T14:50:28 < karlp> rock pi e has the same module, with the same schematic as I do. so this must be something else...
2021-05-28T15:00:14 < karlp> might try plugging this into a windows machine.
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2021-05-28T15:27:12 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-05-28T15:27:40 < Laurenceb> anyone know how to enable jnlp in microshart edge?
2021-05-28T15:32:23 < karlp> hah, good luck.
2021-05-28T15:32:39 < karlp> that was a promising idea years ago, but it was at the same time as java front end web shit was all evaporating.
2021-05-28T15:32:49 < karlp> lat time I worked with that was 10 years ago.
2021-05-28T15:33:34 < karlp> also, yay. windows behaves similarly. recognises them, reports a failure to load driver for bt, and then the device dissappears
2021-05-28T15:51:26 < karlp> can't enable dynamic debug vis sysfs, becase "kernel lockdown"
2021-05-28T15:51:40 < karlp> "disable kernel lockdown with sysrq+x" "unknown command"
2021-05-28T15:57:30 < Laurenceb> oh its java not javascript?
2021-05-28T15:57:54 < karlp> jnlp is java java.
2021-05-28T15:58:34 < karlp> ok, because some fuckwad discoverd that you can use usbip to emulate a keyboard remotely, and use that to enter the keycombo that was meant to be "only allow local physical users to unlock" the method of unlocking is now disabled.
2021-05-28T15:58:54 < karlp> so if you want dynamic debug, or _anything_ else in degbufs, you're not allowed to have secure boot...
2021-05-28T15:59:11 < karlp> I mean, I thought secure boot was about _boot_ not what you did afterwards.
2021-05-28T15:59:19  * karlp screams at computers
2021-05-28T16:01:49 < karlp> finally got around selinux breaking everything, and they just found a new way to break things for users.
2021-05-28T16:03:53 < Laurenceb> hmm ok, maybe I need to try something else
2021-05-28T16:34:17 < Laurenceb> that jnlp links to something that doesnt seem to exist on their servers any more
2021-05-28T16:34:23 < Laurenceb> so much for that idea
2021-05-28T16:34:34 < Laurenceb> oh they were taken over by ANSYS lol
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2021-05-28T17:24:28 < karlp> this is fucked, you can make your own distro, use the fedora uefi shim, wahtever, still have secure boot,
2021-05-28T17:24:35 < karlp> but you can't disable kernel lockdown on fedora.
2021-05-28T17:24:43 < karlp> you have to make your own kernl, or disable secure boot.
2021-05-28T17:25:15 < karlp> because some cunt demonstrated that there was no way of verifying that someone was "physically local to the machine"
2021-05-28T17:26:12 < ventyl> can't you just mount diagfs at initrd time?
2021-05-28T17:27:23 < Laurenceb> the bifilar helix!!!1
2021-05-28T17:29:34 < karlp> ventyl: debugfs is mounted, just can't use most of it.
2021-05-28T17:30:24 < ventyl> that sucks, recently I also wanted to use some of it features, but realized that it is essentially unusable for everyone except of kernel developers
2021-05-28T17:30:45 < ventyl> well, I didn't want to use it, but the feature I wanted to tackle was burried deep inside it
2021-05-28T17:31:40 < BrainDamage> can't you roll your own MOK and sign the kernels yourself?
2021-05-28T17:31:55 < BrainDamage> the way I see it's the only sane way to use secure boot
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2021-05-28T17:50:13 < karlp> well, I'm not dual booting, so I'm kinda just leaning towards disabling secure boot entirely.
2021-05-28T17:50:24 < karlp> it just seems like I shouldn't have to make that big a tradeoff.
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2021-05-28T17:58:41 < karlp> so I can run anything I want, I just can't get the kernel to run anything I want....
2021-05-28T17:58:55 < karlp> I'm really still not convinced any of this has helped at all.
2021-05-28T17:59:18 < karlp> but that sort of talk just gets the "you're an insecure legacy thinking moron" whipping
2021-05-28T17:59:48 < BrainDamage> secure boot tethers on a weird assumption
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2021-05-28T18:00:36 < BrainDamage> that one has physical access to your machine while it's unattended, tampers it, and gives it back to you
2021-05-28T18:01:27 < BrainDamage> and installs complex code that sneakingly runs in the background and does whateever nefarious deed
2021-05-28T18:01:50 < BrainDamage> for most users, the main concern is theft, for which secure boot adds nothing
2021-05-28T18:03:15 < karlp> also, "the kernel is very happily running this ransomeware app, very securely veriifed"
2021-05-28T18:03:30 < karlp> I'm still missing why I can't disable _just_ kernel lockdown.
2021-05-28T18:03:51 < karlp> I'm just geting, "oh, but root can edit grub command lines and bypass that" 
2021-05-28T18:04:00  * karlp sighs
2021-05-28T18:07:37 < karlp> I mean, this shim bullshit still lets you run whatever you want.
2021-05-28T18:09:23 < BrainDamage> that's why rolling your own MOK is the only sane way to use secure boot
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2021-05-28T18:09:46 < BrainDamage> since you'd sign the kernel yourself and none else is supposed to have the key
2021-05-28T18:15:40 < karlp> yeah, but then I've got to build my own kernels, sign them all teh time, likely forever.
2021-05-28T18:16:03 < karlp> this guy gets it: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50577.html?thread=1893777#cmt1893777 it's like it's basically users vs distros,
2021-05-28T18:16:26 < karlp> lockdown also automatically blocks hibernation, so that's guarantteed to keep getting worse 
2021-05-28T18:16:35 < karlp> took a working feature and absolutely gutted it.
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2021-05-28T18:37:57 < aandrew> found laurent: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-57280115
2021-05-28T18:43:06 < karlp> fecking CONFIG_RTLWIFI_DEBUG not set anyway...
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2021-05-28T19:03:11 < karlp> gets a lot further using a different driver, I get a wifi interface, and it stays on now, and can even see some stations. but doesn't look real happy still. https://paste.jvnv.net/view/vCpxD
2021-05-28T19:03:24 < karlp> doesn't work on windows either though, which is fucking dodgorama.
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2021-05-28T19:32:33 < qyx> so if the ADC has 0.3 uV RMS noise
2021-05-28T19:32:45 < qyx> I probably need a good low noise LDO
2021-05-28T19:33:24 < qyx> looking at a ultra low noise LDO TPS7A20, it has 7 uV RMS output noise
2021-05-28T19:33:42  * qyx puzzled
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2021-05-28T19:37:28 < emeb> qyx: what are you trying to do?
2021-05-28T19:38:47 < qyx> feed an ADC
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2021-05-28T19:39:47 < emeb> what kind of ADC
2021-05-28T19:40:57 < qyx> ad7124-8, super pro precision 24 bit for bridge sensors
2021-05-28T19:42:07 < emeb> heh. that would explain the low noise value.
2021-05-28T19:42:43 < emeb> I've often wondered how often those 24-bit parts actually get 24 bits of real data.
2021-05-28T19:43:31 < qyx> they are promiseing 22 noise free bits
2021-05-28T19:44:39 < emeb> does your signal source have such low noise?
2021-05-28T19:45:40 < qyx> I hope so, it is a strain gauge inside a steel structure, nothing more inside except lighting powered by 50 Hz AC
2021-05-28T19:48:44 < jpa-> qyx: remember that noise RMS spec should always considered together with bandwidth
2021-05-28T19:48:52 < emeb> Yep. Definitely need lots of isolation, shielding, low noise design magik to hit that figure.
2021-05-28T19:50:17 < emeb> I guess a strain gauge in a structure is likely not going to be changing very fast, so you can filter heavily and sample slowly.
2021-05-28T19:52:14 < jpa-> qyx: to me it looks like AD7124 has noise of 0.3µVrms with 10 Hz bandwidth; TPS7A20 has noise of 7µVrms on 100kHz bandwidth - if the noise spectrum was flat, it would be equal to 0.0007µVrms on 10Hz bandwidth
2021-05-28T19:52:37 < jpa-> (but of course noise spectrum is not flat)
2021-05-28T19:53:58 < jpa-> from the graph it actually appears that TPS7A20 has quite high noise at lowest frequencies
2021-05-28T19:55:27 < jpa-> but on the other hand AD7124 has 90 dB PSRR, so 7µV on power supply is equal to 0.0002µVrms on signal - unless you have other paths for the power supply noise to get to your signal
2021-05-28T19:56:51 < jpa-> at least make sure to use NP0 caps in the antialias filter, unless you are building a microphone :)
2021-05-28T19:58:22 < emeb> lol
2021-05-28T19:58:44 < emeb> love those piezoelectric MLCCs
2021-05-28T19:59:28 < qyx> jpa-: makes sense
2021-05-28T20:00:12 < jpa-> qyx: what is the actual samplerate you are aiming for?
2021-05-28T20:02:30 < qyx> 40 Hz
2021-05-28T20:04:39 < jpa-> that's a nice way to maximize the amount of 50Hz noise you get
2021-05-28T20:04:57 < emeb> qyx: are you talking about using the TPS7A20 as the reference for the strain gauge bridge?
2021-05-28T20:05:59 < qyx> no, as a AVDD
2021-05-28T20:06:07 < qyx> strain gauge is ratiometric
2021-05-28T20:06:43 < qyx> but yeah, basically I can use it to power the bridge too
2021-05-28T20:08:54 < emeb> seems like any supply ripple the bridge sees will be passed thru ratiometrically too. 
2021-05-28T20:09:03 < jpa-> i would suggest powering the bridge from the REFOUT of the adc, if the current is enough
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2021-05-28T20:12:01 < jpa-> (looks like 10mA max)
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2021-05-28T20:19:06 < qyx> I would need to buffer it
2021-05-28T20:23:32 < jpa-> i guess you can then just use AVDD as the reference also
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2021-05-28T21:49:00 < qyx> I split the ground plane as recommended in the datasheet https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mux3L/Screenshot_2021-05-28_20-48-37.png
2021-05-28T21:58:36 < upgrdman> heh, looks like a patch antenna :)
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2021-05-28T23:18:40 < zyp> testing how far I can push the new scope: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/SkZsX.png
2021-05-28T23:22:18 < Thorn> what is this, are there 3 different frequencies (in increasing order)?
2021-05-28T23:22:42 < zyp> this is FS USB
2021-05-28T23:24:36 < zyp> starts with a sync pattern, then token PID, then frame counter
2021-05-28T23:25:19 < Thorn> why 2 horizontal lines on the right? it can't show transitions any more?
2021-05-28T23:25:38 < zyp> I assume that's end of packet
2021-05-28T23:25:57 < zyp> SOF tokens are only preamble, 16-bits then EOP
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2021-05-28T23:35:02 < zyp> frame counter is pretty visible: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZsMN5.mp4
2021-05-28T23:35:35 < Thorn> oh I get it why there're 2 lines, it's display persistence
2021-05-28T23:35:50 < zyp> yes
2021-05-28T23:36:23 < Thorn> the level after the packet is either high or low ~50% of the time
2021-05-28T23:37:21 < Thorn> I need a new scope with digital phosphor so that I can learn how to interpret it
2021-05-28T23:43:23 < Thorn> zyp btw did you try the ch1 minus ch2 mode?
2021-05-28T23:43:32 < Thorn> given that it's a mostly differential bus
2021-05-28T23:49:37 < zyp> yeah, but it doesn't look very useful
--- Day changed Sat May 29 2021
2021-05-29T00:01:03 < Thorn> is there still persistence in the math trace?
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2021-05-29T00:27:49 < kakium69> evenings
2021-05-29T00:31:04 < qyx> the adc thing is nearly finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ETOTm/Screenshot_2021-05-28_23-30-37.png
2021-05-29T00:31:51  * kakium69 *drooling*
2021-05-29T00:32:15 < emeb> qyx: what's the card-edge bus? something standard or a custom thingy?
2021-05-29T00:32:44 < qyx> custom thingy
2021-05-29T00:32:50 < kakium69> it's system qyx
2021-05-29T00:32:57 < qyx> 5V + can + ethernet and some sync signals
2021-05-29T00:33:06 < emeb> neat
2021-05-29T00:33:13 < emeb> mcu or fpga?
2021-05-29T00:33:33 < qyx> L451
2021-05-29T00:33:54 < qyx> (without ethernet)
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2021-05-29T01:35:39 < mawk> making an adc board is the hello world of embedded programmers
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2021-05-29T02:19:16 < Steffann> With sma connectors?
2021-05-29T02:27:07 < kakium69> 53w11!
2021-05-29T02:27:42 < kakium69> indeed with SMA connectors
2021-05-29T02:27:42 < BrainDamage> I thought a blinky led was the hello world
2021-05-29T02:27:55 < BrainDamage> and you fit the whole circuit inside a sma connector
2021-05-29T02:28:37 < BrainDamage> a smol qfn and some smd led ought to work
2021-05-29T02:29:16 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKdUtOa0tXd0J1ekE/view?usp=sharing
2021-05-29T02:29:20 < kakium69> meme
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2021-05-29T02:30:13 < kakium69> that was 5years ago
2021-05-29T02:30:25 < kakium69> some people still can let it go
2021-05-29T02:36:39 < kakium69> they are permanently traumatized
2021-05-29T02:56:25 < Steffann> Did you even solder all sma connectors to it kakium69 ?
2021-05-29T02:56:48 < kakium69> ofc not
2021-05-29T02:56:54 < Steffann> Hmm
2021-05-29T02:57:09 < kakium69> just the ones I wished to use
2021-05-29T02:57:17 < Steffann> I'm not sure if that's "ofc not". Especially not 5 years ago 
2021-05-29T02:57:42 < Steffann> The sma fetishism hit you hard back then
2021-05-29T03:23:05 < kakium69> it's just a big brain move
2021-05-29T03:23:13 < kakium69> to use sma
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2021-05-29T05:40:35 < mawk> that's a lot of sma connectors Steffann 
2021-05-29T05:40:43 < mawk> kakium69: *
2021-05-29T05:41:06 < mawk> beautiful homemade twisted pair
2021-05-29T05:45:46 < aandrew> kakium69: heh reminds me of this board: https://i.imgur.com/QBQikSS.jpg
2021-05-29T05:45:50 < aandrew> lots and lots of SMA
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2021-05-29T08:51:17 < englishman> lol i remember that one
2021-05-29T08:55:06 < jly> control for a rubber vagina?
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2021-05-29T11:43:12 < qyx> classic fail, powering a white led with 1V8
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2021-05-29T11:59:37 < ventyl> joule thief for your service
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2021-05-29T13:14:00 < Steffann> got some simulations jly?
2021-05-29T13:20:51 < jly> yeah muscles
2021-05-29T13:40:20 < Steffann> Great. Thanks for sharing.
2021-05-29T13:40:50 < jly> thanks mate
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2021-05-29T17:34:13 < Laurenceb> anyone here used oomem killer daemon on lunix?
2021-05-29T17:36:55 < Laurenceb> or maybe its oomd
2021-05-29T17:36:57 < Laurenceb> I dunno
2021-05-29T17:40:49 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: there's earlyoom and nohang
2021-05-29T17:41:21 < Laurenceb>  Condition: start condition failed at Sat 2021-05-29 15:37:22 BST; 3min 30s ago
2021-05-29T17:41:21 < Laurenceb>              └─ ConditionFileIsExecutable=/usr/bin/oomd_bin was not met
2021-05-29T17:41:26 < Laurenceb> that worked well....
2021-05-29T17:43:38 < Laurenceb> ok I'll try something else
2021-05-29T17:43:49 < Laurenceb> documentation is next to nonexistent for this broken shit
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2021-05-29T18:55:10 < BrainDamage> uhhh, systemd services are stupidly docummented
2021-05-29T18:55:21 < BrainDamage> also, that error seems pretty self explanatory
2021-05-29T18:56:40 < Streaker> mv /usr/bin/oomd_bin /usr/bin/oomd_bin.exe ?
2021-05-29T19:01:32 < Laurenceb> systemd[1]: oomd.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'.
2021-05-29T19:03:06 < Laurenceb> fuck this shit
2021-05-29T19:03:10 < Laurenceb> I'll try earlyoom
2021-05-29T19:03:19 < R2COM> I keep hearing from here and there that systemd is something to be avoided
2021-05-29T19:03:35 < R2COM> (I do not yet have enough personal experience to properly judge how true it is)
2021-05-29T19:05:29 < Laurenceb> hah that was much easier
2021-05-29T19:05:43 < Laurenceb> >sending SIGTERM when mem <= 10 % and swap <= 10 %
2021-05-29T19:05:51 < Laurenceb> hmm I'm not sure I agree
2021-05-29T19:05:59 < Laurenceb> I'd change swap to about 6%
2021-05-29T19:06:09 < Laurenceb> nvm
2021-05-29T19:07:24 < R2COM> tct so you also do gamedev?
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2021-05-29T19:15:29 < Laurenceb> Avoiding to kill process names that match regex '(^|/)(xorg|cinnamon)$'
2021-05-29T19:15:33 < Laurenceb> ^does that look sane
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2021-05-29T19:18:18 < BrainDamage> ignore swap for oomd, if you're swapping badly your machine is locked itfp
2021-05-29T19:18:55 < Laurenceb> lol atm I already have all ram used and 5GB of swap
2021-05-29T19:19:27 < Laurenceb> once 16GB of ram and 16GB of swap is used it all goes to shit
2021-05-29T19:20:20 < Laurenceb> an old Octave session with 5GB memory use isnt a big performance killer by itself
2021-05-29T19:20:49 < Laurenceb> this looks like it should work now anyway
2021-05-29T19:20:57 < Laurenceb> I'm gunna get some fresh air
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2021-05-29T20:41:00 < Steffann> musics for kakium69 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMUkzRxNwkk
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2021-05-29T22:23:12 < aandrew> woo found a bunch of cheapish ($50) laser diodes in the 450-488nm range and .08-1.6W range
2021-05-29T22:33:26 < aandrew> 488nm is apparently a trick. 450 is like $50, 473 not sure yet but 488 is $300
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--- Day changed Sun May 30 2021
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2021-05-30T00:18:01 < fenugrec> englishman, how is your garlic doing
2021-05-30T00:19:40 < qyx> aandrew: trying to get a better looking blue?
2021-05-30T00:20:52 < aandrew> sorta
2021-05-30T00:23:41 < englishman> fenugrec: https://i.imgur.com/lvnXdAv.jpg
2021-05-30T00:23:45 < englishman> how's yours?
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2021-05-30T00:35:38 < qyx> about the same here
2021-05-30T00:36:38 < qyx> we also have wild garlic at parent's
2021-05-30T00:36:54 < qyx> or bear's garlic or how is it called
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2021-05-30T00:45:52 < fenugrec> englishman, nice. Mine is insane this year: https://ibb.co/jrKGJgn  it's as tall as last year in july
2021-05-30T00:51:52 < englishman> everything is gangbusters this year
2021-05-30T00:52:21 < englishman> first bloom on the 6 year old Honeycrisp this year so we'll have apples
2021-05-30T00:54:42 < Steffann> Apple sauce/compote <3
2021-05-30T01:02:16 < fenugrec> englishman, you'll need one of these https://youtu.be/m26rOaVXNn0?t=103
2021-05-30T01:02:18 < qyx> so hows jlcpcb after the eu-wide customs fuckup?
2021-05-30T01:02:47 < qyx> they are shipping from the germany, aren't they?
2021-05-30T01:04:32 < fenugrec> https://youtu.be/HGDam9xyM3U?t=50 this one is better adjusted, apple comes off almost perfect
2021-05-30T01:07:51 < Steffann> He also needs a hat like that
2021-05-30T01:11:51 < englishman> hat?
2021-05-30T01:12:21 < fenugrec> farmer's hat, second vid. I should have one
2021-05-30T01:13:05 < englishman> oh at the beginning
2021-05-30T01:13:33 < englishman> I have a jacaru hat
2021-05-30T01:14:09 < englishman> https://www.jacaru.com/collections/kangaroo-leather-hats/products/130-roo-koolaroo
2021-05-30T01:14:13 < englishman> something like that
2021-05-30T01:14:25 < englishman> and another ozzie hat with croc teeth
2021-05-30T01:14:43 < fenugrec> g'day mate
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2021-05-30T01:15:15 < englishman> got some snags for the barbie mate
2021-05-30T01:26:22 < englishman> qyx is it also non stop windy to the point it's super annoying
2021-05-30T01:27:37 < qyx> the May was super cold compared to previous years
2021-05-30T01:27:49 < qyx> and much rain, not particularly windy whough
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2021-05-30T03:07:24 < kakium69> hello night
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2021-05-30T03:26:21 < kakium69> should I buy Signal Fire AI-9 for 350eur
2021-05-30T03:26:38 < kakium69> full kit and tried once what seller says
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2021-05-30T05:40:59 < dongs_> lol the same shithead who stole my nickname here also registered it on libera.shat
2021-05-30T05:41:30 < aandrew> lol
2021-05-30T05:41:32 < aandrew> dongs got juped
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2021-05-30T06:39:03 < R2COM> wut
2021-05-30T06:39:24 < R2COM> who the fuck would care about stealing nicknames from irc
2021-05-30T06:39:49 < R2COM> dongs seems to have many enemies aha
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2021-05-30T10:23:26 < jly> hello people 
2021-05-30T10:24:06 < jpa-> jolly jly
2021-05-30T10:24:36 < jly> hello there, much on the IRC planet today?
2021-05-30T10:24:38 < Steffann> Hello happy people
2021-05-30T10:24:45 < jly> hallo mister steffan
2021-05-30T10:24:49 < jly> how's jolly?
2021-05-30T10:25:05 < Steffann> She's good. Just sleeping 
2021-05-30T10:25:20 < jly> new lockdown for me
2021-05-30T10:25:40 < jly> think today is the 3rd day of it
2021-05-30T10:29:29 < Steffann> Ahyeah I read about it.  Fun
2021-05-30T10:29:54 < Steffann> Why this vaccination is going sooo slow there?
2021-05-30T10:32:57 < jly> people are scared of it
2021-05-30T10:33:13 < jly> cause the 1 in a million blood clotting reaction
2021-05-30T10:33:35 < jly> I'll get the vaccine
2021-05-30T10:33:59 < jly> atm I'm an immunocompromised hermit 
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2021-05-30T13:29:58 < qyx> irc pros
2021-05-30T13:31:59 < qyx> if a measurement system uses high voltages (~500 V pulses)
2021-05-30T13:33:44 < qyx> is there any special certification needed?
2021-05-30T13:33:49 < qyx> SIL or whatever
2021-05-30T13:37:53 < zyp> I don't think SIL applies, I think that's for shit that has potential to kill you if it misbehaves
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2021-05-30T14:25:57 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57294412
2021-05-30T14:26:01 < Laurenceb> >cockpit
2021-05-30T14:29:22 < BrainDamage> I'd imagine flying a modern airplane would get pretty boring
2021-05-30T14:30:18 < Streaker> who among us can honestly say that he hasn't masturbated at work?
2021-05-30T14:31:53 < BrainDamage> not at work, unless you count work from home
2021-05-30T14:36:22 < Steffann_> his name is awfully dutch :S
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2021-05-30T15:05:52 < Laurenceb> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/21/05/29/209250/could-zinc-batteries-replace-lithium-ion-batteries-on-the-power-grid
2021-05-30T15:05:58 < Laurenceb> reee stealing muh ideaz
2021-05-30T15:06:30 < Laurenceb> wait no they are talking zinc air, fail
2021-05-30T15:06:59 < Laurenceb> rechargable zinc/manganese has been shown to survive >10k cycles
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2021-05-30T15:30:34 < qyx> zinc air are good
2021-05-30T15:30:39 < qyx> except they need air
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2021-05-30T16:27:41 < Mangy_Dog> when using debug is there a command to print out into consol the same way i could with serial print?
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2021-05-30T16:51:41 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: not really; there is semihosting but it is slow (pauses CPU for several milliseconds), and then there is SWO but that needs separate wire
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2021-05-30T16:52:03 < Mangy_Dog> im sure my swo is wired up
2021-05-30T16:52:09 < Mangy_Dog> i think
2021-05-30T16:52:19 < Mangy_Dog> anyway it doesnt really matter
2021-05-30T16:52:29 < Mangy_Dog> i found the option in the debugger to view the whole array values
2021-05-30T16:52:35 < Mangy_Dog> which is what i wanted to print out anyway
2021-05-30T16:52:36 < Mangy_Dog> sooo
2021-05-30T16:52:42 < Mangy_Dog> kinda sorted
2021-05-30T17:44:43 < Laurenceb> qyx: rechargable zinc air is a massive pita
2021-05-30T17:45:25 < Laurenceb> the air part is the tricky bit
2021-05-30T17:45:57 < Laurenceb> aiui nobody has made a low cost easy to manufacture rechargable electrode
2021-05-30T17:46:49 < Laurenceb> zinc manganese is used in alkaline cells, which are actually rechargable
2021-05-30T17:46:57 < Laurenceb> but their cycle life is pitiful
2021-05-30T17:47:44 < Laurenceb> recently there has been some work on mildly acidic zinc alkaline, which it turns out can have a cycle life of >10k with some conditioning cycles at regular intervals
2021-05-30T17:48:02 < Laurenceb> s/zinc alkaline/zinc manganese
2021-05-30T17:56:30 < zyp> jpa-, and then there's segger rtt
2021-05-30T18:02:19 < jpa-> zyp: and zyp's blogger
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2021-05-30T19:50:05 < mawk> a dutch hobo is threatening near me Steffanx
2021-05-30T19:50:06 < mawk> help me
2021-05-30T19:50:21 < mawk> he said "I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!!!!" which is not very nice
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2021-05-30T20:04:50 < R2COM> mawk as long as you have your AR15 with 100rnd mag you should not worry about anything like that
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2021-05-30T20:28:23 < Steffann> Lol what mawk?
2021-05-30T20:28:38 < Steffann> Is he a Frenchy killing patriot?
2021-05-30T20:28:42 < Steffann> That would make sense
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2021-05-30T21:31:58 < mawk> he's very drunk
2021-05-30T21:32:04 < mawk> so very patriot yes
2021-05-30T21:32:10 < mawk> I've seen him before
2021-05-30T21:32:27 < mawk> he's always drunk
2021-05-30T21:32:45 < mawk> he has a buddy who speaks french
2021-05-30T21:33:00 < mawk> because he's algerian
2021-05-30T21:33:18 < mawk> he's named samir
2021-05-30T21:33:32 < mawk> he even showed me his newly stolen shoes
2021-05-30T21:33:52 < PaulFertser> In what circumstances are you having conversations with hobos?
2021-05-30T21:35:11 < mawk> it happens all the time
2021-05-30T21:35:25 < mawk> I just sit there on a bench and they come talk to me
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2021-05-30T21:57:31 < Steffann> oh, north african immigrant.. no comments mawk :P
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2021-05-30T23:52:50 < qyx> let's do some protobuf wizardry
--- Day changed Mon May 31 2021
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2021-05-31T00:28:21 < karlp>  /me wresltes conda again
2021-05-31T00:31:30 < Steffann> Are you sure you want that? I would call it a day... 
2021-05-31T01:24:50 < qyx> wtf is the new nanopb doing that compiler is invoked during the linking phase
2021-05-31T01:25:01 < qyx> idk actually what the hell is scons doing
2021-05-31T01:25:36 < qyx> it compiles everything ok, it starts linking and then fails when trying to find pb.h which is obvious
2021-05-31T01:36:01  * qyx dumb
2021-05-31T01:37:02 < qyx> I accidentally *.pb.c to the list of object files
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2021-05-31T03:53:52 < jadew> any good movies lately?
2021-05-31T03:55:45 < kakium69> hmm
2021-05-31T03:57:26 < kakium69> tenet?
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2021-05-31T03:58:02 < kakium69> nice brain bender
2021-05-31T03:58:54 < jadew> will check it out
2021-05-31T04:01:25 < jadew> I haven't seen anything exciting lately :/
2021-05-31T04:01:31 < jadew> not sure if it's the movies or me
2021-05-31T04:04:23 < kakium69> once upon a time in ?
2021-05-31T04:04:33 < kakium69> I rewatched it
2021-05-31T04:05:21 < kakium69> the part where those cultist get rekt
2021-05-31T04:07:03 < jadew> not sure I've seen it
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2021-05-31T04:25:14 < kakium69> have you seen Alien?
2021-05-31T04:25:44 < kakium69> late 70's space opera/horror/scifi
2021-05-31T04:26:08 < kakium69> it's good bedtime movie if you have not seen it
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2021-05-31T04:37:23 < jadew> kakium69, yeah
2021-05-31T04:38:36 < kakium69> well
2021-05-31T04:38:44 < kakium69> the thing (old one)
2021-05-31T04:38:48 < jadew> saw it
2021-05-31T04:38:54 < kakium69> very tasty
2021-05-31T04:39:20 < kakium69> I wonder if the new one is as tasty
2021-05-31T04:40:47 < jadew> I've never seen twilight zone
2021-05-31T04:40:59 < jadew> I wonder if I should start with the original ('59)
2021-05-31T04:46:56 < kakium69> bit old
2021-05-31T04:47:07 < jadew> might be, yeah
2021-05-31T04:48:09 < jadew> looks like they made a new one in 2019
2021-05-31T04:48:14 < jadew> I'll try that one first
2021-05-31T04:49:28 < jadew> I really liked the outer limits (the second one)
2021-05-31T04:50:00 < jadew> it's the reason I ended up having sex for the first time
2021-05-31T04:52:04 < kakium69> weird
2021-05-31T04:52:11 < kakium69> a movie made you have secks?
2021-05-31T04:52:37 < kakium69> :D
2021-05-31T04:52:48 < jadew> yeah, she invited me to come see it at her place
2021-05-31T04:52:57 < jadew> and it became a routine
2021-05-31T04:53:36 < kakium69> ah
2021-05-31T04:53:47 < kakium69> understandable
2021-05-31T04:54:02 < jadew> eventually she told me we can't see eachother anymore because she started to have inappropriate feelings for me, and that's when we hooked up
2021-05-31T04:54:20 < jadew> good times
2021-05-31T04:54:22 < kakium69> it was not like "these alien tits make me my weewee go big"
2021-05-31T04:54:43 < jadew> no, but if pavlov was right, they should
2021-05-31T04:55:04 < kakium69> so
2021-05-31T04:55:12 < kakium69> is she your current wife?
2021-05-31T04:55:36 < jadew> no
2021-05-31T04:56:24 < jadew> it was a crazy year that one, but that's about how much it lasted
2021-05-31T04:56:27 < jadew> maybe less
2021-05-31T04:56:37 < jadew> (she was my teacher)
2021-05-31T04:56:45 < kakium69> :o
2021-05-31T04:57:13 < kakium69> you sound like laurencer now
2021-05-31T04:57:25 < jadew> well not exactly my teacher, but she was a teacher at my school (at a different class) and also a teacher at the PC club I was attending
2021-05-31T04:57:47 < kakium69> yeah enough info
2021-05-31T04:57:49 < jadew> crazy shit happens to unsupervised kids I guess
2021-05-31T04:58:03 < kakium69> unsupervised hyperhorny jadew
2021-05-31T04:58:10 < jadew> haha, yeah
2021-05-31T05:30:23 < jadew> twilight zone sucked
2021-05-31T05:30:27 < jadew> I'm off to bed, night
2021-05-31T05:31:52 < kakium69> nightnight
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2021-05-31T11:18:19 < jpa-> hmm, i didn't know the permittivity of PVC varies so much with frequency and temperature  https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/pvc_cable_capacitance.png
2021-05-31T11:23:08 < qyx> yeah capsensing water level with a plastic pipe probe is basically impossible without temp compensation
2021-05-31T11:23:12 < qyx> or probe compensation
2021-05-31T11:23:30 < qyx> also, check my pro nanopb reverse codez https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6Gls3
2021-05-31T11:24:18 < ventyl> or water level compensation
2021-05-31T11:25:57 < jpa-> qyx: hehe, i've usually done that by encoding in normal order to separate buffer, and then just memcpy()ing the header into place
2021-05-31T11:26:52 < qyx> I was feeling inventive
2021-05-31T11:28:07 < jpa-> i'm proud of you :)
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2021-05-31T11:50:53 < qyx> hm, you shouldn't be
2021-05-31T11:51:22 < qyx> I blindly assumed a pb_encode_* call calls the stream callback only once
2021-05-31T11:53:33 < qyx> if it wrote to the output stream more than once the output would resemble a walnut stroodel
2021-05-31T11:53:43 < qyx> although it doesn't seem to be the case
2021-05-31T11:55:38 < jpa-> yeah, it internally buffers and writes only once for the basic varints etc.
2021-05-31T12:04:17 < zyp> just got some spam about EU's new «IOSS» stuff, which looks similar to norway's «VOEC» stuff that we talked about the other day
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2021-05-31T12:08:54 < karlp> Steffann: well, I found the bug that made me wrestle conda again: https://gitlab.com/kicad/libraries/kicad-footprint-generator/-/merge_requests/681/diffs?commit_id=594fbaa7b48bb3a131404fe023b83039dc99215e
2021-05-31T12:09:16 < karlp> I then tried to make the kicad people happy with using vrml instead of step, but that made zero progress...
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2021-05-31T12:15:57 < jpa-> they *still* want to use vrml?
2021-05-31T12:22:10 < karlp> yeah, tell me about it.
2021-05-31T12:22:48 < karlp> I tried complaining, said that they clearly support step, so why should footprints be _required_ to link to vrml first, and why can't models be _only_ provided in step.
2021-05-31T12:23:01 < karlp> blah blah, compatibility, blah blah, better material surfaces blah blah
2021-05-31T12:23:26 < karlp> none of the "but it's a fucking mesh!" or "you already support step!" made any difference
2021-05-31T12:23:56 < karlp> I won't push further, it was suggested to me that cadquery had added support "just" save as vrml instead of step, but the vrml exports are all at the wrong scale, so fuck knows.
2021-05-31T12:24:15 < karlp> contributing to kicad is my own little bdsm kink I guess.
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2021-05-31T13:49:04 < jpa-> karlp: i once tried to contribute some schematic symbols, never got them good enough to be accepted because they basically wanted me to refactor the whole mosfet library
2021-05-31T13:50:05 < karlp> yeah, that sort of shit annoys me.
2021-05-31T13:50:19 < karlp> "I copied an existing symbol, because you want to have these atomic symbols for everythign"
2021-05-31T13:50:26 < karlp> "symbol doesn't follow guidelines, please fix"
2021-05-31T13:51:04 < ventyl> both existing and copied?
2021-05-31T13:51:23 < karlp> depending on whims of someone that day, eif they ever got around to responding.
2021-05-31T13:52:02 < karlp> I mean, it's _hard_ to acept changes into core, and it's super hard to go aroudn cleaning them up, but it's still.... fucking insanely hard to get syms/footprints into kicad.
2021-05-31T13:55:01 < qyx> my symbols will be never accepted
2021-05-31T13:55:13 < qyx> because I hate VSS on the bottom and VDD on top
2021-05-31T13:57:13 < jpa-> http://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/vdd_short.png    qyx did you make this symbol??
2021-05-31T13:58:52 < qyx> no those are from the left
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2021-05-31T14:06:41 < Steffann> Did you not make your own symbol jpa- ?
2021-05-31T14:06:46 < Steffann> Don't tell dongs_ 
2021-05-31T14:07:07 < jpa-> no, i just steal symbols from random github repos
2021-05-31T14:07:50 < jly> hello people
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2021-05-31T14:39:15 < Steffann> Hello jly 
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2021-05-31T15:33:50 < Laurenceb> I'm reading about myths
2021-05-31T15:33:56 < Laurenceb> >Myth: Once a man is sexually aroused he can't help himself; he has to rape.
2021-05-31T15:34:06 < Laurenceb> >Fact: Men can control their urges to have sex just as women can. No-one needs to rape.
2021-05-31T15:34:16 < Laurenceb> good jerb they cleared that one up for me
2021-05-31T15:37:13 < Streaker> Damn feminists and their false propaganda.
2021-05-31T15:38:38 < Steffann> I'm not convinced this also applies to where you're from, Streaker ;)
2021-05-31T15:40:47 < Streaker> Why haven't you moved to Libera yet?
2021-05-31T15:53:38 < Steffann> I have
2021-05-31T15:54:10 < Steffann> Ok, a clone of me did
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2021-05-31T16:36:02 < Streaker> You're the clone! Steffanx is the original.
2021-05-31T16:41:24 < Steffanx> Nah
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2021-05-31T17:02:22 < mawk> don't move to libera Streaker 
2021-05-31T17:02:25 < mawk> don't you dare
2021-05-31T17:03:25 < Streaker> mawk: freenode is owned by a Chinaman!
2021-05-31T17:03:38 < Streaker> *Korean Chinaman
2021-05-31T17:10:15 < mawk> so what
2021-05-31T17:10:17 < mawk> he's pretty cool
2021-05-31T17:16:15 < kakium69> but is he ccp man?
2021-05-31T17:29:11 < mawk> no
2021-05-31T17:37:56 < kakium69> are you sure?
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2021-05-31T18:43:15 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-05-31T18:43:26 < mawk> I can't travel to France to see my dying grandfather one last time
2021-05-31T18:43:37 < mawk> because the pharmacy refuses to deliver a border control pass for my medicine
2021-05-31T18:43:53 < mawk> "go to hetcak.nl" he said
2021-05-31T18:44:03 < mawk> I go there, it says "2 weeks approval process"
2021-05-31T18:44:21 < mawk> I don't think the guy can hold his death for 2 weeks
2021-05-31T18:44:30 < mawk> so I'll just smuggle the pills in, hidden somewhere
2021-05-31T18:46:30 < Steffanx> Ohno
2021-05-31T18:58:43 < karlp> what border are you crossing that has any sort of guards on it between .nl and .fr?
2021-05-31T18:59:55 < mawk> since terrorist attacks there are policemen looking in your stuff karlp 
2021-05-31T18:59:59 < mawk> for train and plane at least
2021-05-31T19:00:02 < mawk> car is mostly fine
2021-05-31T19:00:12 < mawk> I'm white so I never got searched but it might happen
2021-05-31T19:00:26 < mawk> everytime I come from nl to france there are brown men getting searched on the train deck
2021-05-31T19:00:43 < mawk> they are on the train deck at arrival in paris
2021-05-31T19:01:04 < mawk> also people coming from nl to fr are automatically suspicious
2021-05-31T19:01:23 < mawk> a FR sports car coming back from NL will likely get searched
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2021-05-31T19:40:28 < Steffann> Goodbye mawk
2021-05-31T19:41:04 < Steffann> You can  share prison stories with the hacker guy soon
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2021-05-31T20:13:38 < englishman> if he gets thrown in the "ranting homeless guy" cell he's likely to already have a bunch of friends there
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2021-05-31T20:35:28 < Laurenceb> I would like to take this opportunity to account for my past online activity on this website.
2021-05-31T20:35:28 < Laurenceb> I unequivocally apologise for my conduct; I have engaged in abusive behavior, produced political images and viewed repulsive, degrading content. Such behavior I wouldn't dare engage in, if it weren't for the "anonymity" of this website. I realise now that all conduct online should be consistent with the values I'm willing to reaffirm publicly. My conduct here has fallen short of my prospects and upbringing; I now recognise my personal fai
2021-05-31T20:35:28 < Laurenceb> lings and seek redemption. I prostrate myself before you, appeal to your magnanimity and ask that I be spared any potential future legal action against my person. I would like to reassure you that I'm no threat to the Realm and resolve to make all my future conduct online be of a high standard; that better reflects myself, my family and this country. I sincerely regret ever coming here and becoming involved with this website and resolve t
2021-05-31T20:35:31 < Laurenceb> his will be my last communication here.
2021-05-31T20:35:33 < Laurenceb> I appeal to individuals reading this to reflect on their online behavior also.
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2021-05-31T20:49:26 < R2COM> conclusion: europe is shithole
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 01 00:00:53 2021