--- Log opened Tue Jun 01 00:00:53 2021
2021-06-01T00:02:59 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-01T00:03:24 < mouseghost> hewo hewo
2021-06-01T00:03:33 < mouseghost> obviously entered irc to ask a question >~>
2021-06-01T00:04:46 < mouseghost> where's SLEEPONEXIT bit? where do i find that info.? it says its in CONTROL reg., but i cant seem to find the offset or something for that exact bit
2021-06-01T00:05:22 < mouseghost> if i disable peripherals, is their register state preserved?
2021-06-01T00:05:40 < mouseghost> if i disable GPIO, is the pin state the same or does it all turn off?
2021-06-01T00:06:33 < mouseghost> stm32f050 vel f031  ;v
2021-06-01T00:07:50 < mouseghost> oh i think i dont have the last question anymore ;v
2021-06-01T00:07:58 < mouseghost> cus it says its a clock after all
2021-06-01T00:15:41 < Ultrasauce> mouseghost: core stuff is in a separate document, https://www.st.com/resource/en/programming_manual/dm00051352-stm32f0xxx-cortex-m0-programming-manual-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-06-01T00:15:53 < mouseghost> Ultrasauce, <3 thanks
2021-06-01T00:17:13 < Ultrasauce> by disabling peripherals do you mean disabling their clocks in RCC_AxBxENR?
2021-06-01T00:18:08 < mouseghost> ayep
2021-06-01T00:18:15 < mouseghost> exactly that
2021-06-01T00:18:17 < Ultrasauce> their state is maintained yes
2021-06-01T00:22:12 < mouseghost> thankss
2021-06-01T00:24:33 < Ultrasauce> (but reading the registers will produce zeroes)
2021-06-01T00:40:55 < mouseghost> mhm, right
2021-06-01T00:40:55 < mouseghost> thanks
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2021-06-01T00:52:03 < mouseghost> ah, also another thing, if doing 'wfi' every millisecond OK?
2021-06-01T00:53:45 < qyx> it depends
2021-06-01T00:53:56 < qyx> you are using wfi/wfe for all sleep modes
2021-06-01T00:54:15 < qyx> for doing the core sleep (without deepsleep), it is ok
2021-06-01T00:54:19 < mouseghost> qyx, ah, well, the most usual sleep mode
2021-06-01T00:54:20 < mouseghost> thanks 
2021-06-01T00:54:42 < qyx> I have wfi by default in idle tasks
2021-06-01T00:55:06 < mouseghost> i currently am doing it with giant finite state machines
2021-06-01T01:00:09 < mouseghost> tho my code is such a spaghet now..
2021-06-01T01:00:22 < mouseghost> at least it worked last time, so theres that
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2021-06-01T16:41:53 < bitmask> hello
2021-06-01T16:51:39 < srk> sup
2021-06-01T17:51:10 < Steffanx> Tha sky
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2021-06-01T18:14:46 < bitmask> damn heartburn
2021-06-01T18:15:01 < bitmask> wheres muh tubing
2021-06-01T18:16:52 < bitmask> found it
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2021-06-02T04:12:07 < bitmask>  i make the dumbest mistakes sometimes
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2021-06-02T12:08:40 < drzacek> Hello. Can someone explain me what exactly is this smps thingy on some nucleo boards? Or at least point me to a place that explains it in detail? So far I could only find that it's some fancy voltage regulator that somehow causes lower power consumption, in a strange and magical way
2021-06-02T12:11:28 < Streaker> magical and mystical switchers
2021-06-02T12:14:11 < drzacek> well according to wiki it's just a switching power supply, aka stuff like any phone charger from last 15 years
2021-06-02T12:15:20 < drzacek> but why does it need gpio?
2021-06-02T12:16:43 < qyx> is there any smps thingy on nucleo boards?
2021-06-02T12:17:13 < drzacek> https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-l452re-p.html
2021-06-02T12:17:16 < drzacek> on some
2021-06-02T12:24:40 < qyx> which dedicated gpio? VDD12?
2021-06-02T12:24:50 < qyx> it is the core voltage generated internally by a LDO
2021-06-02T12:25:00 < qyx> you can bypass it on parts exposing such pin
2021-06-02T12:25:06 < qyx> and feed it directly using and external smps
2021-06-02T12:25:26 < qyx> no magic involved
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2021-06-02T12:25:48 < qyx> you can conserve power significantly using 1V8 to power the whole MCU
2021-06-02T12:26:01 < qyx> using smps (instead of 3V3)
2021-06-02T12:26:13 < drzacek> give me a second, I'm making new project, so I can show it
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2021-06-02T12:28:26 < drzacek> https://imgur.com/a/Q6vqcEG
2021-06-02T12:29:25 < drzacek> default pin settings on new Nucleo L452RE-P project. It reserves 4 pins on the bottom side. And it is in conflict with SPI pins
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2021-06-02T12:33:05 < drzacek> qyx, yes I heard about the 1.8V and lower power usage, but I'm not there yet. I need to get modules to work before I start thinking about power optimization
2021-06-02T12:34:15 < drzacek> right now I'm struggling with getting ethernet shield to work and just trying to rule out everything. After losing few days I took few steps back and starting from beginning, trying to understand what exactly is on the board and if I am connecting it right. Wasn't sure if the smps is in the way here
2021-06-02T12:45:31 < qyx> oh it's cube
2021-06-02T12:45:32 < qyx> idk then
2021-06-02T12:45:58 < qyx> you should start with the nucleo manual
2021-06-02T12:46:02 < qyx> and reference manual uf L452
2021-06-02T12:46:22 < qyx> starting with cube without reading at least the relevant parts of the RM is not very optimal
2021-06-02T12:46:57 < qyx> and GPIO assigments and alternate functions are in the L452 datasheet
2021-06-02T12:47:30 < drzacek> okay, gonna do
2021-06-02T12:47:32 < qyx> EN and PG are standard enable/power good
2021-06-02T12:48:14 < qyx> I am curious whats their purpose, because if you don't enable the switcher, you don't have VDD12
2021-06-02T12:48:24 < qyx> you should check the nucleo manual what exactly are they doing
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2021-06-02T13:25:44 < rcc> this hurts my feelings
2021-06-02T13:25:49 < rcc> you moved and didn't tell me
2021-06-02T13:26:38 < Xogium> to be fair, if they had told they were moving in the channel topic, the freenode channel would have been destroyed because its apparently against policy now
2021-06-02T13:28:15 < rcc> it's a complete mess tho
2021-06-02T13:28:35 < rcc> are we using freenode, libera or telegram?
2021-06-02T13:28:48 < srk> discord
2021-06-02T13:29:03 < rcc> right... I expect that to happen soon enough
2021-06-02T13:29:22 < srk> I'm kidding, why would you use telegram?
2021-06-02T13:29:39 < rcc> everyone here is also on Telegram
2021-06-02T13:29:50 < rcc> they're sharing cat pictures
2021-06-02T13:29:54 < srk> awww
2021-06-02T13:30:01 < Xogium> personally I stay with irc. I don't need fancy stuff like image and audio and whatever
2021-06-02T13:30:14 < ventyl> my wifi router can't run discord :(
2021-06-02T13:30:33 < rcc> lots of communities are fractured now
2021-06-02T13:31:15 < srk> ventyl: you can't even 3rd party discord clients. it's against policy :)
2021-06-02T13:31:43 < Xogium> I saw lee closing down the channel of a linux distro for the blind with the comment, this channel has long survived past its usefulness. I was really not amused
2021-06-02T13:32:02 < srk> wow.
2021-06-02T13:33:05 < Xogium> first banned everyone with that strange mode that make it so noone can speak but they are still on till you kick them out, do your little victory danse and then kick everyone out
2021-06-02T13:33:16 < Xogium> truly pathetic
2021-06-02T13:33:27 < rcc> bans work like that
2021-06-02T13:33:34 < rcc> you have to kick for it to take effect
2021-06-02T13:33:59 < Xogium> and of course he also deoped everyone except himself
2021-06-02T13:34:33 < Xogium> that does send a subtle message that he believes blind people are useless
2021-06-02T13:35:51 < rcc> he probably didn't know what it was for
2021-06-02T13:36:02 < rcc> now... can I hide my IP address on this server?
2021-06-02T13:36:05 < Xogium> and now they are apparently claiming some projects stayed with them like armbian when in reality armbian has moved to libera, they put the freenode and armbian logos together
2021-06-02T13:36:28 < Xogium> sure, there's tor now I believe, or you have cloaks
2021-06-02T13:36:47 < rcc> I hate this
2021-06-02T13:36:54 < rcc> Steffanx, why did you make this?
2021-06-02T13:37:10 < ventyl> srk: not that I care about discord at all
2021-06-02T13:37:30 < ventyl> it is fucking chat in javascript after all
2021-06-02T13:37:41 < ventyl> Xogium: ugh
2021-06-02T13:37:44 < rcc> ah, englishman and ultrasauce made it
2021-06-02T13:37:50 < Xogium> lol yeah same I only use discord because I know one person that is using it, and I'm using it with bitlbee, third party client ban be damned
2021-06-02T13:37:59 < Xogium> they'll ban me eventually, I don't give a damn
2021-06-02T13:38:00 < Xogium> lol
2021-06-02T13:38:25 < rcc> I use discord because I enjoy talking
2021-06-02T13:39:06 < Xogium> they don't care about accessibility on discord so why should I respect the rule of not using a third party app
2021-06-02T13:39:31 < Xogium> its either that or I stop using them which I figured they wouldn't really like
2021-06-02T13:42:36 -!- rcc is now known as jadew
2021-06-02T13:43:54 < jadew> I'm considering using discord from the browser only
2021-06-02T13:44:01 < jadew> because it feels safer
2021-06-02T13:46:44 < BrainDamage> I use it from the browser, the desktop client like many programs exists only to get around the sandboxing features
2021-06-02T13:47:15 < BrainDamage> also, won't share memory with the browser, so you end up using 1GB for every electron instance ...
2021-06-02T13:50:06 < jadew> yeah, I haven't used any discord features that made it necessary for it to run as a stand alone app
2021-06-02T13:51:33 < jadew> I think there's a need for a bridging bot
2021-06-02T13:51:56 < jadew> that ties this with the freenode and the telegram channels
2021-06-02T13:52:01 < karlp> no fuck that.
2021-06-02T13:52:12 < karlp> then we have to have those fucking cat wankers everywhere.
2021-06-02T13:52:19 < jadew> haha
2021-06-02T13:52:40 < karlp> I'm currently only initiating conversations on freenode, and watching libera.  telegram is a side game altogether.
2021-06-02T13:52:55 < ventyl> bridging bots make stuff a lot more messy
2021-06-02T13:53:01 < ventyl> at both ends
2021-06-02T13:53:14 < jadew> ventyl, how come?
2021-06-02T13:53:21 < ventyl> every now and then I see people on Pine64 discords replying to IRC bridging bot
2021-06-02T13:53:23 < jadew> can we at least bridge libera with freenode?
2021-06-02T13:53:29 < ventyl> I have already even been accused of being bot itself
2021-06-02T13:53:46 < jadew> people here are not idiots
2021-06-02T13:53:49 < karlp> fuck bridges it's horrible for people in both, and ruins nick completion for everyone else.
2021-06-02T13:53:58 < ventyl> jadew: heh, I expect that doing so would mean very quick end of freenode channel
2021-06-02T13:54:10 < ventyl> this ^^
2021-06-02T13:54:30 < jadew> well, let's decide on one then... why drag this along for so long?
2021-06-02T13:54:47 < jadew> renounce on one and put a message in the topic
2021-06-02T13:55:01 < srk> just put libera in the topic on fleenode :D
2021-06-02T13:55:11 < karlp> there's no web/project community anyway, they're just adhoc channels
2021-06-02T13:55:16 < karlp> libera is _this_ group of people
2021-06-02T13:55:21 < karlp> freenode is _that_ group of people
2021-06-02T13:55:24 < karlp> they don't need to overlap
2021-06-02T13:55:29 < karlp> they don't need to be "moved"
2021-06-02T13:55:37 < jadew> well, it's our group of people
2021-06-02T13:55:47 < karlp> if certain users start only talking in one place, we'll see what happens :)
2021-06-02T13:56:01 < ventyl> i don't see that as a problem
2021-06-02T13:56:08 < Xogium> if you put a message mentioning you move in the channel topic on freenode they immediately take over and revert your channel topic
2021-06-02T13:56:14 < Xogium> or close it
2021-06-02T13:56:22 < ventyl> many topics do have overlap accross channels, networks or protocols, so what?
2021-06-02T13:56:41 < Xogium> or at least, that's what they did. No idea if they went like, bad idea, that was
2021-06-02T13:56:45 < ventyl> it's just one another window opened
2021-06-02T13:57:28 < jadew> well, this sucks
2021-06-02T13:57:46 < jadew> you two are now speaking both here and there...
2021-06-02T13:58:13 < Xogium> they even did a bot who closed  down channels that mentioned moving somewhere else, except they fucked up the regexp and actually it closed down channels that didn,t plan on moving and channels that had not taken the decision yet
2021-06-02T13:58:17 < Xogium> big fail
2021-06-02T13:58:22 < ventyl> and? there are two different topics :)
2021-06-02T13:58:52 < srk> Xogium: yep. even overtook atheme channel like that :)
2021-06-02T13:58:55 < jadew> Xogium, yeah, just read about that
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2021-06-02T13:59:45 < Xogium> so I agree there was a big fail. But when I saw what he personally came to do in the distro for the blind channel, because this one was most definitely no accident, I was like what the hell man
2021-06-02T14:00:35 < Xogium> https://paste.xogium.me/q.txt
2021-06-02T14:22:04 <@Steffanx> I didnt make this rcc
2021-06-02T14:22:14 <@Steffanx> And its also in the topic of freenode ##stm32
2021-06-02T14:22:28 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2021-06-02T14:22:35 < englishman> didnt even know dickscord had a desktop client
2021-06-02T14:22:56 < Steffanx> You dont want to know
2021-06-02T14:23:01 < Xogium> its not really a client its like a webappthat display the website
2021-06-02T14:23:05 < Xogium> lol
2021-06-02T14:23:07 < englishman> yeah typical
2021-06-02T14:23:14 < englishman> with 400mb+ install size right
2021-06-02T14:23:49 < Xogium> 173 mb according to archlinux package
2021-06-02T14:23:55 < jadew> it's probably the same thing with a couple more APIs exposed from electron
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2021-06-02T14:32:48 < BrainDamage> Xogium_: archlinux is an exception because it splits off electron and uses a shared install
2021-06-02T14:33:08 < BrainDamage> most electron installations ship a full copy of the bin with no shared memory
2021-06-02T14:33:22 < Xogium> ah, I didn't know that
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2021-06-02T14:37:34 < jadew> I am now cloaked!
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2021-06-02T14:49:59 < ventyl> hm, apparently, if you bridge your freenode channel to libera, freenode side won't be zapped immediately. at least as of now
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2021-06-02T15:01:07 < jpa-> bridging IRC channels between two networks has to be the most stupid idea ever
2021-06-02T15:02:17 < drzacek> ^this
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2021-06-02T15:16:54 < Steffanx> Agreed 
2021-06-02T15:17:14 < jadew> so what's the solution we watch both servers?
2021-06-02T15:17:24 < jadew> all 3 actually
2021-06-02T15:17:29 < jadew> I'm counting telegram too
2021-06-02T15:17:29 < Steffanx> You don't have to do anything 
2021-06-02T15:17:52 < jadew> well, I want to be in the loop with the amazing developments of this community
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2021-06-02T15:22:33 < BrainDamage> the way I see, the situation will eventually self solve
2021-06-02T15:22:43 < jadew> right, but we don't know how long it will last
2021-06-02T15:22:46 < jadew> it could take years
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2021-06-02T15:23:24 < jpa-> so, i bought a nanovna v2
2021-06-02T15:23:41 < jadew> is it all that you hoped for?
2021-06-02T15:23:52 < jpa-> well, it works
2021-06-02T15:24:12 < jpa-> i now realize that every time i want to do something with i'll lack the proper kind of cable
2021-06-02T15:24:38 < BrainDamage> what connectors does it use?
2021-06-02T15:24:43 < jpa-> SMA
2021-06-02T15:24:45 < BrainDamage> I hope not u.fl
2021-06-02T15:25:04 < jadew> no, it's the 10c SMA
2021-06-02T15:25:17 < jpa-> but i think my normal fly-wire scope probing approach is not going to fly here
2021-06-02T15:25:21 < BrainDamage> get a pair of semirigid 30 cm cable
2021-06-02T15:25:27 < BrainDamage> sma-sma
2021-06-02T15:25:47 < BrainDamage> should cost you 15 bucks or so
2021-06-02T15:25:54 < jpa-> sure, it came with cables, but i find it unlikely that any of the stuff i'd be debugging would have SMA cables
2021-06-02T15:26:21 < jadew> jpa-, you can use adapters, but at least the test cables will be good
2021-06-02T15:26:30 < jpa-> so i'll just be bodging some weird stuff, and then how to calibrate it when a cable is soldered to some PCB etc.
2021-06-02T15:26:30 < BrainDamage> you could always make a probe with sma connector
2021-06-02T15:27:05 < BrainDamage> most of the stuff you'll be measuring will be microstrips
2021-06-02T15:27:20 < BrainDamage> and board thickness and epsilonr are standard
2021-06-02T15:27:33 < BrainDamage> so it means that trace width will be standard too
2021-06-02T15:27:56 < BrainDamage> so a simple fork connector to touch the strip will be sufficient
2021-06-02T15:28:15 < jpa-> hmm, maybe
2021-06-02T15:28:31 < jpa-> for now i'll just be using it as high frequency signal generator, which is what i got it for :)
2021-06-02T15:28:39 < jadew> heh
2021-06-02T15:28:52 < jadew> it has very high harmonics tho
2021-06-02T15:28:54 < jadew> keep that in mind
2021-06-02T15:29:04 < jpa-> yeah
2021-06-02T15:30:05 < jpa-> basically just doing frequency response sweeps, taking CH1 & CH2 data from rigol and DFT on them to pick the specific frequency; perhaps i'll also try doing same on nanovna directly and compare
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2021-06-02T15:32:44 < BrainDamage> just try to get the char impedance of your test setup fixed
2021-06-02T15:32:59 < BrainDamage> that means you can calibrate away probe, etc
2021-06-02T15:33:16 < BrainDamage> this leaves you with circuit
2021-06-02T15:33:39 < jpa-> yeah, that's the idea
2021-06-02T15:34:15 < jadew> if it's not properly calibrated as the frequency gets higher, the sweeps you're taking won't be as reliable
2021-06-02T15:35:21 < jpa-> well the sweeps i take with scope should be quite reliable, as they are purely comparative; i.e. as accurate as the accuracy between two channels of the scope, and i could always switch the channels to check
2021-06-02T15:36:00 < jpa-> but that mostly relies on putting the branch point right next to the scope
2021-06-02T15:36:10 < jadew> you can't even make comparisons without calibration
2021-06-02T15:36:27 < jadew> you could easily get MORE power reported, when it should be showing less
2021-06-02T15:36:59 < jadew> for example if you add a component that changes the impedance
2021-06-02T15:37:36 < jpa-> i guess i have a quite specific use case that is different from usual VNA usage :)
2021-06-02T15:38:04 < jadew> depends a lot on the frequency too, because at lower frequencies it's more difficult to run into these effects
2021-06-02T15:39:26 < jadew> is there no low cost RF sig gen out there yet?
2021-06-02T15:39:32 < jadew> something worthwhile?
2021-06-02T15:40:35 < jpa-> not sure what is worthwhile, most of the cheap stuff appears to be similar to nanovna except without measurement
2021-06-02T15:41:26 < BrainDamage> it's all AD chips to make a sweep gen
2021-06-02T15:42:05 < BrainDamage> there's very little difference circuit-wise between one small vna and the other
2021-06-02T15:42:05 < jadew> yeah, but I think you'd want it cleaner than what you get from those VCOs directly
2021-06-02T15:42:38 < BrainDamage> the main difference between them is if they add proper tracking filters, rf engineering and calibration
2021-06-02T15:42:50 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/353206533830  though even this appears to have less harmonics than nanovna
2021-06-02T15:46:58 < jadew> aren't they using the same IC?
2021-06-02T15:48:45 < jadew> have you guys seen 3 position dip switches?
2021-06-02T15:48:53 < jadew> or at least ON-ON ones
2021-06-02T15:49:07 < jadew> would like ON-OFF-ON switches
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2021-06-02T15:54:51 < BrainDamage> oh btw, another option is to add u.fl test pads
2021-06-02T15:55:09 < BrainDamage> they are sufficiently small to not clog much a design
2021-06-02T15:55:18 < BrainDamage> and you can leave them unpopulated
2021-06-02T15:57:25 < jadew> I just make test boards for everything I have to measure
2021-06-02T15:57:37 < jadew> with built-in cal kits
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2021-06-02T16:28:28 < jadew> man... it's so freaking cold here
2021-06-02T16:28:32 < jadew> it should be summer
2021-06-02T16:36:54 < Steffanx> Define cold, jadew
2021-06-02T16:44:59 < jadew> Steffanx, 12 °C
2021-06-02T16:45:12 < jadew> now it's at its height for the day, 17 °C
2021-06-02T16:45:26 < jadew> and is going to fall back to 11
2021-06-02T16:46:10 < jadew> oh, the low for the day was 9 :/
2021-06-02T16:50:08 < jadew> in the past 6 years the height of the day has varied between 24 and 29 °C
2021-06-02T16:50:44 < jadew> the ice age is coming I think
2021-06-02T16:50:51 < jadew> and it's because of the global warming
2021-06-02T16:56:53 < jpa-> jadew: 78HJ01GWT  is one ON-ON dip switch type, but i haven't seen three-position ones
2021-06-02T16:58:38 < jpa-> looks like all three-position ones on digikey are rotary type
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2021-06-02T17:01:10 < jadew> jpa-, thanks
2021-06-02T17:01:16 < jadew> that's an interesting design
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2021-06-02T21:38:38 < Ceafin> aww, can I not just use STMCubeIDE with a Nucleo dev board? i have to use this M$Windows-only STMCubeF1 stuff?
2021-06-02T21:42:10 < Mangy_Dog> anyone happen to know what the MISRA safty system is?
2021-06-02T21:42:20 < Mangy_Dog> in relation to embedded work
2021-06-02T21:43:50 < jpa-> Mangy_Dog: you mean bunch of rules for C code?
2021-06-02T21:44:00 < Mangy_Dog> tbh im not sure
2021-06-02T21:44:11 < Mangy_Dog> just a job application ive applied to mentions it
2021-06-02T21:44:19 < Mangy_Dog> its some kind of safty standard
2021-06-02T21:44:28 < qyx> it is a set of good and bad practices for embedded programming
2021-06-02T21:44:37 < Mangy_Dog> im assuming some kind of redundent coding design
2021-06-02T21:44:40 < jpa-> misra is a huge association, misra-c is a set of practices for c coding
2021-06-02T21:44:47 < Mangy_Dog> ah
2021-06-02T21:44:57 < Mangy_Dog> it wasnt required
2021-06-02T21:45:00 < Mangy_Dog> but desireable
2021-06-02T21:47:22 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: MISRA-C is basically just a set of coding guidelines
2021-06-02T21:47:31 < ventyl> like, there is no if without else
2021-06-02T21:47:31 < Mangy_Dog> ah
2021-06-02T21:47:36 < Mangy_Dog> will take a look
2021-06-02T21:47:36 < ventyl> function ever only can have one exit point
2021-06-02T21:47:39 < ventyl> no recursion
2021-06-02T21:47:43 < ventyl> no heap
2021-06-02T21:47:57 < Mangy_Dog> hmm
2021-06-02T21:48:10 < ventyl> and a fugly, extremely fugly style of writing the code, especially if you applied for automotive with autosar
2021-06-02T21:48:37 < ventyl> I served three years
2021-06-02T21:48:47 < Mangy_Dog> fugly in what way?
2021-06-02T21:49:17 < BrainDamage> some ideas are ok-ish, some are debatable and some are idiotic
2021-06-02T21:49:31 < BrainDamage> but reading it at least once it makes sense
2021-06-02T21:49:34 < ventyl> Mangy_Dog: shitload of macros
2021-06-02T21:49:43 < srk> pretty useless
2021-06-02T21:49:53 < ventyl> yes, most of them evaluates to nothing
2021-06-02T21:49:54 < Mangy_Dog> ah
2021-06-02T21:50:03 < ventyl> there was something like VAR(type, name)
2021-06-02T21:50:04 < srk> (I mean whole misra-c) :D
2021-06-02T21:50:09 < ventyl> which evaluated to type name
2021-06-02T21:50:23 < ventyl> then VAR_POINTER(type, name) which evaluated to type * name
2021-06-02T21:50:29 < ventyl> and so on and on
2021-06-02T21:51:06 < ventyl> in the end it looked like a wagon full of cobol decks collided into house full of poorly written C
2021-06-02T21:51:24 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2021-06-02T21:51:41 < srk> Mangy_Dog: aerospace?
2021-06-02T21:51:44 < ventyl> was there any mention of ASIL B, C or D?
2021-06-02T21:51:51 < Mangy_Dog> naa medical
2021-06-02T21:51:56 < srk> cool
2021-06-02T21:52:11 < Mangy_Dog> but from what i can gather its more... umm
2021-06-02T21:52:19 < ventyl> same shit, but probably ASIL C level will be implicit
2021-06-02T21:52:24 < Mangy_Dog> complimentry or non life saving
2021-06-02T21:53:10 < jpa-> looks like a lot of that AUTOSAR macro crap is designed to cope with the @far @near pointer crap that some 8051 or similar ancient cpus had
2021-06-02T21:53:25 < Mangy_Dog> the good news they specifically mention stm32
2021-06-02T21:53:27 < Mangy_Dog> sooo yay
2021-06-02T21:53:32 < ventyl> pretty unlikely, as Autosar is simply too fat to run on 8051
2021-06-02T21:54:03 < ventyl> more likely, it was designed by a commitee and some fucktard simply required support for some exotic toolchain
2021-06-02T21:54:26 < ventyl> as usually most of ugly autosar stuff is unused except of a few exotic environments
2021-06-02T21:54:41 < jpa-> what limits the size of code to run on 8051?
2021-06-02T21:55:09 < ventyl> and quite often even the usable stuff
2021-06-02T21:55:21 < Ultrasauce> Ceafin: afaik all of us who use linux just use the foss toolchain
2021-06-02T21:55:27 < ventyl> can 8051 address more than 64kB?
2021-06-02T21:55:56 < jpa-> IIRC there are a bunch of weird 8051 extensions, like extending address space in various ways etc.
2021-06-02T21:56:07 < jpa-> i guess calling them "8051" is not entirely correct
2021-06-02T21:56:20 < ventyl> dynamic extensions such as bank switching wouldn't play well with automotive
2021-06-02T21:57:04 < ventyl> and just a stupid controller for hardtop convertible had 500kB+ firmware image
2021-06-02T21:57:16 < Ceafin> Ultrasauce: roger
2021-06-02T21:57:17 < ventyl> and there were four of them in one car
2021-06-02T21:57:59 < jpa-> looks like that @far @near stuff is exactly the extended 24-bit address space on 8051 variants 
2021-06-02T22:01:06 < ventyl> i haven't seen 8051s in use with autosar. it is possible that it is theoretically possible to do so, but noone really does
2021-06-02T22:01:27 < ventyl> most commonly NXP, Infineon, Renesas MCUs are used with autosar
2021-06-02T22:03:34 < ventyl> last year STM released new 32bit automotive MCUs, but those seem to be based on Power ISA rather than ARM
2021-06-02T22:04:11 < ventyl> yeah
2021-06-02T22:04:30 < ventyl> they apparently redesigned aging 7447
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2021-06-02T22:29:16 < Ultrasauce> Ceafin: so I'm not aware of a full tutorial existing (and there is plenty of info that is distro dependent) but there are bits and pieces all over the place
2021-06-02T22:30:13 < qyx> theres a misra-c 2012 or so available on interwebs
2021-06-02T22:30:22 < Ultrasauce> the ide bundles a compiler, a HAL/vendor libraries, a debugging gateway and a debugger, and scripts them to all work together
2021-06-02T22:30:30 < Ultrasauce> so if you want all that functionality you'll need to provide all of those things
2021-06-02T22:32:06 < Ultrasauce> packages you'll need include arm-none-eabi-gcc arm-none-eabi-gdb arm-none-eabi-binutils openocd 
2021-06-02T22:52:01 < Ultrasauce> Ceafin: https://jacobmossberg.se/posts/2018/08/11/run-c-program-bare-metal-on-arm-cortex-m3.html looks like an ok tutorial as far as the firmware and compilation go, but openocd will be configured slightly differently
2021-06-02T22:54:31 < ventyl> just a bit too steep learning curve
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2021-06-02T23:13:21 < Ultrasauce> kinda
2021-06-02T23:16:28 < Ceafin> cool, well i'll take all the links i can get for reading or viewing :D thanks!
2021-06-02T23:17:34 < Ultrasauce> all it should take to apply that to your own devboard is replacing the openocd configuration with one for that board (which it includes)
2021-06-02T23:18:21 < Ultrasauce> moving past that you'll probably want to adapt the build system to include vendor libraries or another hal but, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it
2021-06-02T23:18:48 < Ceafin> heh, gotcha
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2021-06-02T23:22:35 < Ultrasauce> https://vivonomicon.com/2018/04/02/bare-metal-stm32-programming-part-1-hello-arm/ this one looks better actually
2021-06-02T23:22:52 < Ultrasauce> (targeting f0 though)
2021-06-02T23:23:37 < ventyl> there isn't a lot of difference actually
2021-06-02T23:24:00 < Ultrasauce> yeah just precludes copypasting the makefiles
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2021-06-02T23:43:11 < karlp> Ceafin: but yes, you absolutely can use stm32cubeide for a nucleo board...
2021-06-02T23:44:15 < Ultrasauce> oh they do have a linux version huh
2021-06-02T23:46:11 < Ceafin> yeah, i have the linux build of the IDE, been trying to figure that out with using STLinkV2 on this nucleo board so far
2021-06-02T23:46:28 < Ceafin> but i'll take any avenue to make things happen :) 
2021-06-02T23:46:42 < Ultrasauce> well this sounds like lower hanging fruit, what's the issue there?
2021-06-02T23:46:59 < Ceafin> i'm just trying to stay away from "Arduino" stuff, since it really neuters what i /could/ do
2021-06-02T23:47:05 < Ceafin> issue is just knowing what to do 
2021-06-02T23:47:08 < Ceafin> procedure
2021-06-02T23:47:25 < Ceafin> i dont want to brick my chips/devboards right out the batt, etc
2021-06-02T23:47:48 < Ultrasauce> no worries there really
2021-06-02T23:48:48 < karlp> new stm32prioject, pick yuou board?
2021-06-02T23:48:54 < karlp> it kinda just works...
2021-06-02T23:49:26 < Ultrasauce> the timecube stuff has its downsides but it's far removed from arduino-style cargo cult code
2021-06-02T23:49:42 < Ceafin> "cargo cult"?
2021-06-02T23:49:59 < Ultrasauce> code written or copypasted without understanding
2021-06-02T23:50:26 < ventyl> interesting use of this phrase
2021-06-02T23:50:30 < ventyl> cargo cult coding
2021-06-02T23:50:45 < Ceafin> ah yeah, when i pulled back the curtain on arduino stuff, that's when i realized there was a lot more "stuff" i could do, but it was all being abstracted away from me :\ 
2021-06-02T23:50:47 < Ultrasauce> it is a very succinct description of that ecosystem imo
2021-06-02T23:51:02 < ventyl> right
2021-06-02T23:51:13 < ventyl> that's why I hate it despite me using AVRs for quite a long time
2021-06-02T23:51:20 < ventyl> i have never used anything arduino
2021-06-02T23:53:14 < Ultrasauce> Ceafin: as far as bricking goes pretty much the absolute worst you can do is disable the debugging interface on the target, and that can be rectified pretty easily
2021-06-02T23:53:26 < Ultrasauce> (aside from the usual class of electrical destruction)
2021-06-02T23:54:12 < Ultrasauce> or setting fuses but that's a screwup that takes specific effort
2021-06-02T23:54:34 < Ceafin> heh, oh if there's a dumbass way to set a jumper or connect a thing, i'll find it
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2021-06-03T00:03:03 < _unreal_> sup
2021-06-03T00:03:10 < Ultrasauce> hi
2021-06-03T00:08:56 <@Steffanx> Lo
2021-06-03T00:09:06 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2021-06-03T00:11:23 < Ultrasauce> steffy do you want me to set -O on you lol
2021-06-03T00:16:44 < Steffanx> :)
2021-06-03T00:17:51 < _unreal_> heh
2021-06-03T00:18:29 < _unreal_> ya I'm waiting for more peole to move over from freenode into my new room... took for ever before any of the ops moved over so I could op them
2021-06-03T00:18:33 < _unreal_> I was like W...T...H.....
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2021-06-03T10:11:26 < srk> ?grbl = https://github.com/grbl/grbl
2021-06-03T10:11:27 < xnand> Done
2021-06-03T10:12:16 < srk> hm, wrong chan but still valid
2021-06-03T10:12:31 < srk> ?baremetal = https://vivonomicon.com/category/stm32_baremetal_examples/
2021-06-03T10:12:32 < xnand> Done
2021-06-03T10:12:53 < srk> baremetal?
2021-06-03T10:12:54 < xnand> baremetal is https://vivonomicon.com/category/stm32_baremetal_examples/
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2021-06-03T11:59:07 < Steffanx> pizza?
2021-06-03T11:59:07 < xnand> I don't know about pizza
2021-06-03T11:59:34 < srk> ?
2021-06-03T11:59:34 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-03T11:59:51 < Steffanx> Ohno, this bot will be annoying
2021-06-03T12:00:11 < srk> can turn down the volume if it is :) 
2021-06-03T12:00:13 < Steffanx> why?
2021-06-03T12:00:14 < xnand> I don't know about why
2021-06-03T12:00:19 < srk> i.e. with a prefix
2021-06-03T12:00:23 < Steffanx> Lol, it's baaad 😋
2021-06-03T12:00:39 < srk> used to respond on ?why only
2021-06-03T12:00:50 < Steffanx> Wouldn't be a bad idea I think?
2021-06-03T12:01:07 < srk> but another channel op wanted it to respond to 'why?' :) so it needs a knob
2021-06-03T12:01:49 < Steffanx> Lol. I dont like this op already 
2021-06-03T12:02:37 < srk> I also need to add NickServ or SASL so I'll add the knob as well when I get to it, feel free to kick it if it's annoying :D
2021-06-03T12:04:34 < srk> ?cats = 😼🐈 cat wankers are hangin' on Telegram 🐱😹
2021-06-03T12:04:34 < xnand> Done
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2021-06-03T12:26:03 < karlp> baremetal?
2021-06-03T12:26:04 < xnand> baremetal is https://vivonomicon.com/category/stm32_baremetal_examples/
2021-06-03T12:26:07 < karlp> ?baremetal
2021-06-03T12:26:07 < xnand> baremetal is https://vivonomicon.com/category/stm32_baremetal_examples/
2021-06-03T12:26:13 < karlp> help's weird...
2021-06-03T12:26:35 < karlp> ?wisdom = https://github.com/karlp/zypsnips
2021-06-03T12:26:36 < xnand> Done
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2021-06-03T12:59:55 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: octorian, srk, CygniX-, ventyl, tkoskine, grindhold, Ultrasauce, dima, englishman, mid-kid,  (+27 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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2021-06-03T13:15:55 < karlp> show me the posix spec on irc bots...
2021-06-03T13:16:08 < karlp> or this query language...
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2021-06-03T13:20:58 < ventyl> well, the problem with case insensitive systems in most cases is, that such system is case insensitive, but not really
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2021-06-03T14:08:09 < englishman> ?airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow
2021-06-03T14:08:09 < xnand> I don't know about airspeed
2021-06-03T14:11:46 < srk> ?meta = https://github.com/sorki/xnand
2021-06-03T14:11:46 < xnand> Done
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2021-06-03T14:59:10 < zyp> 1998 called, they want their irc bot back
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2021-06-03T16:00:16 < jpa-> heh, http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/ threw an error because the downloaded file is too short.. it only lists parts that are in stock :)
2021-06-03T16:12:56 < zyp> aww
2021-06-03T16:13:33 < zyp> it's missing H7, L5, G0, G4
2021-06-03T16:16:03 < karlp> can you make historical too? :)
2021-06-03T16:16:08 < karlp> 3d lines in space!
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2021-06-03T16:19:51 < jpa-> karlp: i've thought about it but been lazy
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2021-06-03T16:28:46 < jpa-> zyp: added them :)
2021-06-03T16:31:00 < srk> ?prices = http://essentialscrap.com/tips/stm32prices/
2021-06-03T16:31:00 < xnand> Done
2021-06-03T16:31:37 < zyp> nice
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2021-06-03T21:21:05 < qyx> oh it has been quite a long time I saw an irc bot for the last time
2021-06-03T21:21:11 < qyx> 2010 or so maybe
2021-06-03T21:31:28 < qyx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbiO8EAsGw
2021-06-03T21:31:35 < qyx> wtf wordpad
2021-06-03T22:15:01 < qyx> jpa-: it would be interesting to make an availability map of stm32
2021-06-03T22:15:14 < qyx> because apparently some specific families are still in stock
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2021-06-04T08:20:26 < jpa-> qyx: that is basically an availability map, because it only shows the in-stock ones
2021-06-04T08:53:04 < qyx> hm yeah, no F0 and G0 available
2021-06-04T08:53:37 < qyx> and no F1
2021-06-04T08:53:44 < qyx> but who on earth would use F1 in 2021
2021-06-04T08:58:17 < qyx> so people are buying either low cost or much power
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2021-06-04T13:28:12 < Mangy_Dog> i appear to have forgotton how to write classes properly :/
2021-06-04T13:28:36 < Mangy_Dog> and im struggling to figure out how to reworked my serial code into a organised portable library class
2021-06-04T14:31:35 < jpa-> where are you going to port it to?
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2021-06-04T19:48:00 < Spirit532> what are _C pins on BGA parts?
2021-06-04T19:49:34 < jpa-> Spirit532: funny separate direct pins to ADC
2021-06-04T19:49:51 < jpa-> they can be connected with the no _C pin by software, or you can use them with direct connection for best analog performance
2021-06-04T19:51:38 < Spirit532> thanks
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2021-06-04T23:10:51 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/p93iw3p
2021-06-04T23:10:54 < bitmask> no leaks for test 1 :P
2021-06-04T23:13:49 < qyx> whats that
2021-06-04T23:13:59 < qyx> looks exactly like our RO filter
2021-06-04T23:15:08 < bitmask> yup it was a simple 4 stage ro filter, i complicated it :P
2021-06-04T23:15:31 < qyx> I should complicate it too
2021-06-04T23:15:59 < qyx> I need the pump too to increase the pressure a bit
2021-06-04T23:16:13 < bitmask> mine is in my bedroom so I have a pump running it, mounted it on the back, added an optional calcite filter (5th stage) and some levels sensors and soon a peltier chiller
2021-06-04T23:16:13 < qyx> ai have 2-2.5 bar, RO needs 3+
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2021-06-04T23:20:16 < bitmask> i added this tiny 0.11 gallon pressurized tank to remove the 30 second wait time when you first turn it on but according to the gauge it only gets to like 20 psi but maybe its just how i have the gauge set up
2021-06-04T23:21:09 < BrainDamage> how much power to do you have to throw on the peltier?
2021-06-04T23:21:25 < BrainDamage> iirc their heat pump efficiency is in the order of 0.05 or so
2021-06-04T23:21:50 < bitmask> its aweful but its not on for long at all
2021-06-04T23:22:15 < bitmask> mine uses 8A @ 12V
2021-06-04T23:22:54 < BrainDamage> yeah, that's 100W ...
2021-06-04T23:24:35 < qyx> how do you treat the water going around the RO membrane?
2021-06-04T23:24:42 < BrainDamage> 0.11gal  ⋅ 4cal/(°Ccm^3)⋅15°C gives me 100kJ
2021-06-04T23:25:00 < qyx> where do you flush it?
2021-06-04T23:25:34 < bitmask> i have a separate tank for it, just dump it down the drain
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2021-06-04T23:25:57 < qyx> didn't you consider recycling it?
2021-06-04T23:26:01 < qyx> to uhm.. some level
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2021-06-04T23:26:18 < bitmask> i considered it, its too difficult where I am right now
2021-06-04T23:27:31 < bitmask> when i have my own place i'll water plants with it
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2021-06-04T23:29:44 < qyx> I was thinking about returning it back to the tank with supply water
2021-06-04T23:30:03 < bitmask> at what ratio?
2021-06-04T23:30:12 < qyx> full
2021-06-04T23:30:16 < qyx> and have a conductivity meter
2021-06-04T23:30:20 < bitmask> how many times?
2021-06-04T23:30:31 < qyx> and beep/blink when the conductivity reaches a threshold
2021-06-04T23:30:37 < bitmask> i see
2021-06-04T23:30:37 < qyx> meaning there is too much minerals in it
2021-06-04T23:31:30 < bitmask> ive considered reusing it once but i wouldnt do it more than that
2021-06-04T23:32:08 < bitmask> i am curious what the tds would be after that
2021-06-04T23:32:14 < qyx> hm, as long as the water output is pure and the membrane life is not threatened much, it shouldn't be a problem I think
2021-06-04T23:32:22 < qyx> idk
2021-06-04T23:34:39 < qyx> now you motivated me to redo my RO
2021-06-04T23:34:47 < bitmask> good
2021-06-04T23:34:54 < qyx> as if I hadn't other work to do
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2021-06-05T21:02:21 < benishor> are there any techniques to find out how much processing power one has left?
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2021-06-05T21:43:20 < zyp> you could try orbtop: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum#orbtop
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2021-06-06T08:09:41 < jpa-> benishor: a classic technique is to continuously toggle some GPIO pin in your idle loop; then you can look with scope to see how much time it spend in idle loop
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2021-06-07T15:05:00 < BrainDamage> anyone knows of a small (<100W) single phase VFD module?, need ~10q, has to drive a squirrel cage motor, all I can find is 2kW+ modules which are both on the large side not to mention expensive
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2021-06-07T15:19:23 < jpa-> BrainDamage: single-phase VFD is a bit of weird stuff in any case because start/run capacitors don't usually like it
2021-06-07T15:19:46 < jpa-> could you just replace the motor with BLDC?
2021-06-07T15:20:18 < BrainDamage> not easily, it's the fallback option if the VFD turns out expensive
2021-06-07T15:20:49 < BrainDamage> it's retrofitting an existing pump
2021-06-07T15:21:02 < jpa-> https://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/panasonic-industrial-automation-sales/MGSDA1/1110-4059-ND/7042567   maybe something like this?
2021-06-07T15:21:17 < jpa-> though 120V
2021-06-07T15:22:04 < BrainDamage> yeah, that for 230 would be perfect, thanks, I'll keep looking myself
2021-06-07T15:25:13 < jpa-> you might also get by with just a variac, because even though it will cause more losses maybe a low power motor won't heat too much
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2021-06-07T15:26:31 < qyx> BrainDamage: optidrive e3 I think
2021-06-07T15:26:43 < qyx> I have such vfd for a single phase 250 W pump
2021-06-07T15:26:55 < qyx> theres also some other brand
2021-06-07T15:27:59 < qyx> https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/sv001ie5-1c/jednofazove-frekvencne-menice/ls-electric/
2021-06-07T15:28:32 < qyx> and https://www.tme.eu/sk/details/ode-3-120023-1f12/jednofazove-frekvencne-menice/invertek-drives/
2021-06-07T15:28:52 < BrainDamage> thanks, those look near spot on
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2021-06-07T16:58:07 < Ultrasauce> isnt a stupid triac+pot dimmer a typical solution at that scale?
2021-06-07T17:07:47 < BrainDamage> a dimmer on induction motors has v^2 torque relation
2021-06-07T17:08:14 < BrainDamage> the problem is that as torque lowers slip increases,so bemf reduces, so current increases
2021-06-07T17:08:56 < BrainDamage> so your motor draws more current at lower speeds, much more than the normal torque*speed = constant would say
2021-06-07T17:09:09 < BrainDamage> and if the motor cannot dissipate that, it fries
2021-06-07T17:09:47 < karlp> put a nail int he dimmer so it can't below 50%? ;)
2021-06-07T17:10:18 < BrainDamage> or a resistor in series if it's a simple pot style
2021-06-07T17:14:35 < jpa-> or switchable lightbulb array in series instead of a dimmer
2021-06-07T17:15:21 < Ultrasauce> yeah now that i think about it every small induction motor with speed control in my house just has multiple windings
2021-06-07T17:15:29 < BrainDamage> yup
2021-06-07T17:15:54 < Ultrasauce> switchable ballast sounds like a good idea
2021-06-07T17:18:41 < karlp> well, I thought a resistor in series first, but I'd get laughed at as you'd need such a big power resistor...
2021-06-07T17:21:19 < BrainDamage> I think I'll go with destructive testing
2021-06-07T17:21:40 < BrainDamage> slap a dimmer on one, see if it fries, if it does, buy another and use a proper vfd
2021-06-07T17:21:46 < karlp> goo dplan :)
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2021-06-07T18:31:41 < qyx> does the motor cost less than the 76€ vfd?
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2021-06-08T18:27:22 < bitmask> cleaning mgn12 blocks sucks, i dont even know if its helping
2021-06-08T18:39:05 < jpa-> what is the problem you have?
2021-06-08T18:39:52 < bitmask> dont have one, just rebuilding the printer
2021-06-08T18:40:14 < bitmask> adding some upgrades, changing some stuff and figured id start from scratch to make sure its square
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2021-06-08T18:59:24 < benishor> I'm trying to find a source for SI5351C. neither mouser nor farnell seems to have them in stock. mouser's `expected date` is 4/22/2022, lol
2021-06-08T18:59:50 < benishor> anyone know of a different source?
2021-06-08T19:00:07 < jpa-> buy a nanovna clone and desolder :)
2021-06-08T19:03:29 < jpa-> lcsc has SI5351A, which could work if you don't need CLKIN or connect it with a capacitor like shown in datasheet
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2021-06-08T20:06:35 < benishor> I wanted the C version especially for the CLKIN :)
2021-06-08T20:06:50 < benishor> a VFO for a radio which I can discipline with an external reference when needed
2021-06-08T20:21:59 < jpa-> but you can feed an external clock to the XTAL inputs with just a series capacitor
2021-06-08T20:22:31 < jpa-> unless you need *both* clkin for some generators and xtal for others simultaneously
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2021-06-09T18:28:39 < bitmask> I think my gf's uncle has lost his mind, hes walking around naked
2021-06-09T18:39:08 < specing> Maybe it's just hot
2021-06-09T18:39:40 < specing> and/or he ran out of fucks to give
2021-06-09T18:40:49 < bitmask> i think its both
2021-06-09T18:47:37 < zyp> are you intimidated?
2021-06-09T18:57:39 < Ultrasauce> dont let him assert dominance, you gotta lose the clothes too
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2021-06-09T19:30:26 < funky> Nothing wrong with a little nakedness. You should try it sometime.
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2021-06-09T20:03:35 < bitmask> im always naked
2021-06-09T20:03:41 < bitmask> im naked right now, i just dont leave my door open
2021-06-09T20:04:24 < bitmask> i also go to nude beaches, just being naked around family is weird
2021-06-09T20:06:08 < jpa-> they closed down one of the few remaining finnish nude beaches because there were too many naked people
2021-06-09T20:09:02 < bitmask> theres only one anywhere near me that I know of and it happens to be only 10 minutes away from where I live. nude beaches are illegal in my state but the area is on federally owned land
2021-06-09T20:09:54 < bitmask> i got arrested a few years ago having sex on the beach :P stupid idea
2021-06-09T20:10:21 < Xogium> lol, now a beach with naked people, I wouldn't even notice
2021-06-09T20:10:28 < Xogium> that would be funny as hell
2021-06-09T20:10:58 < jpa-> Xogium: "Excuse me, I'm missing out all the fun on this beach, do you mind if I feel you around a bit?"
2021-06-09T20:11:08 < Xogium> rofl yeah exactly
2021-06-09T20:11:30 < Xogium> that would be quite funny I think
2021-06-09T20:11:39 < Xogium> maybe not so funny for the poor sighted people
2021-06-09T20:12:06 < jpa-> Why is this beach reading   a a   everywhere??
2021-06-09T20:12:24 < Xogium> :D
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2021-06-09T21:55:38 < qyx> fellow stm32 friends
2021-06-09T21:56:12 < qyx> do we have any mouser/dk/farnell/whatever product/stock watchdog?
2021-06-09T21:57:11 < Ultrasauce> is octopart still any good or did they sell out or whatever
2021-06-09T21:59:12 < qyx> oh octopart
2021-06-09T21:59:15 < Ultrasauce> their api is kinda pricey
2021-06-09T21:59:38 < qyx> I don't mind their api if I can register for free
2021-06-09T21:59:45 < qyx> and they are able to send me an email
2021-06-09T21:59:49 < qyx> when my $stm32 is available
2021-06-09T22:03:07 < zyp> good luck
2021-06-09T22:16:17 < qyx> nope?
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2021-06-10T12:56:34 < karlp> octopart web ui stock levels aren't always all that up to date at least. 
2021-06-10T12:57:57 < karlp> kicost uses octopart via https://github.com/kitspace/partinfo and I definitely saw some wonky stock levels when I was last using it.
2021-06-10T13:04:29 < zyp> still good as an indicator
2021-06-10T13:08:18 < qyx> octopart displayed some hint window offering watchdog
2021-06-10T13:08:38 < qyx> I closed it thinking I can find that feature whenwver I want
2021-06-10T13:08:41 < qyx> no.
2021-06-10T13:18:13 < qyx> oh it works
2021-06-10T13:28:13 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/CZ19N/Screenshot_2021-06-10_12-27-56.png
2021-06-10T13:28:13 < qyx> heh
2021-06-10T13:32:23 < jpa-> don't worry, PIC16F84 is still in stock
2021-06-10T13:39:49 < qyx> atmega too
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2021-06-10T20:35:00 < bitmask> whats the latest IMU that is popular? Do people still use the MPU6xxxx/MPU9xxx or is there better stuff out now
2021-06-10T20:39:42 < Ultrasauce> hg1700
2021-06-10T20:42:36 < bitmask> that looks huge and expensive, not quite what im looking for
2021-06-10T20:49:15 < Ultrasauce> so demanding
2021-06-10T20:49:50 < bitmask> haha
2021-06-10T20:51:00 < qyx> I am using icm-42688-p
2021-06-10T20:51:04 < qyx> idk if popular
2021-06-10T20:51:22 < qyx> but I am quite sure it is not in stock
2021-06-10T20:51:41 < Ultrasauce> nice big fifo
2021-06-10T20:53:31 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/389/dm00618475-1799567.pdf
2021-06-10T20:53:50 < bitmask> yea i was looking at a icm too
2021-06-10T20:54:26 < qyx> this tactical grade shit doesn't even have specs
2021-06-10T20:54:41 < Ultrasauce> >Machine Learning Core logic allows identifying if a data pattern (for example motion, pressure, temperature, magnetic data, etc.) matches a user-defined set of classes.
2021-06-10T20:55:02 < Ultrasauce> >Machine learning processing is based on logical processing composed of a series of configurable nodes characterized by "if-then-else" conditions where the "feature" values are evaluated against defined thresholds.
2021-06-10T20:55:28 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-InvenSense/ICM-20689?qs=u4fy%2FsgLU9NcfLrncAE%252BeQ%3D%3D
2021-06-10T20:55:31 < bitmask> hows that look
2021-06-10T20:55:35 < qyx> sounds like technology of 1050
2021-06-10T20:55:38 < qyx> 1950
2021-06-10T20:57:09 < bitmask> oh i found one closer to the one you rec'd
2021-06-10T20:57:10 < bitmask> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK-InvenSense/IIM-42652?qs=CiayqK2gdcJdwMEsK7YW9Q%3D%3D
2021-06-10T20:57:14 < Ultrasauce> some information about your application might help us generate meaningful answers bitmask
2021-06-10T20:57:55 < qyx> bitmask: yeah thats the one I am using as an alternative
2021-06-10T20:58:14 < qyx> it is pin compatible and should be code compatible
2021-06-10T20:58:18 < bitmask> the most basic one would probably be plenty to be honest, im thinking about making a small board to attach to the print head of my 3d printer to try and tune acceleration and velocity limits to avoid ringing
2021-06-10T20:58:18 < qyx> but didn't try yet
2021-06-10T21:10:25 < Ultrasauce> i'd just grab a cheap breakout for 6050 or whatever
2021-06-10T21:12:11 < Ultrasauce> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/283935849866 not much point in spinning a board when these are a dollar
2021-06-10T21:12:21 < bitmask> yea true
2021-06-10T21:14:44 < Steffann> mpu6050 isnt considered obsolete?
2021-06-10T21:15:24 < Ultrasauce> it's nrnd but this is not a nd it's a slapped together bit of tooling for personal use
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2021-06-10T21:27:44 < Ultrasauce> i wonder if there are any laser TOF sensors that can do a few hundred Hz at low cost
2021-06-10T21:31:20 < qyx> what for
2021-06-10T21:31:38 < Ultrasauce> this position feedback
2021-06-10T21:32:10 < qyx> oh for the pripter
2021-06-10T21:47:21 < englishman> if you find one with a trigger input you could sync up multiple sensors to get hundreds of Hz
2021-06-10T21:51:43 < qyx> make one!
2021-06-10T21:53:02 < qyx> an IR LED + photodiode pair, simple driver, feed output of the driver + photodiode to a 7474 to get 50% duty cycle signals, XOR them, low pass filter it, measure with ADC
2021-06-10T21:53:45 < qyx> (feed the driver with a few kHz signal)
2021-06-10T21:53:55 < Ultrasauce> seems to me SPADs are cheap now
2021-06-10T22:05:05 < Ultrasauce> okay here's a big brain implementation, a sfp+ 10gbit transceiver is like 30 bucks
2021-06-10T22:05:52 < Ultrasauce> this is going on the list
2021-06-10T22:06:01 < qyx> it looks like you like innovations
2021-06-10T22:06:45 < qyx> I need a device emitting 1550 or so nm and measuring a wavelength shift of the returned light
2021-06-10T22:07:00 < qyx> hint, use a CWDM SFP transceiver
2021-06-10T22:07:19 < Ultrasauce> kinda low resolution
2021-06-10T22:07:28 < qyx> I need +- 5 nm
2021-06-10T22:07:38 < qyx> timing is not importasnt
2021-06-10T22:07:41 < qyx> only the shift
2021-06-10T22:08:41 < qyx> probably transmitting a kind of PRN sequence and computing bit error rates of two adjacent colours might work
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2021-06-11T13:27:30 < rob_w> hi guys ... how could i effectitly make a TIM stop after it looped N times ? 
2021-06-11T13:28:17 < rob_w> like can i take a 2nd TIM and make it count down each time the first TIM looped ?
2021-06-11T13:28:29 < zyp> maybe
2021-06-11T13:28:34 < zyp> what is your goal?
2021-06-11T13:29:08 < rob_w> the first TIM drives a stepper motor via PWM .. so i want to control the steps aka position i do with the motor
2021-06-11T13:29:36 < rob_w> right now my existing goal is basicly free running and i change only speed via the TIM 
2021-06-11T13:29:46 < rob_w> the existing code i meant
2021-06-11T13:30:59 < rob_w> or could i tell the pwm that i has to stop after N times it toggled ? ( 2nd approach ?)
2021-06-11T13:33:25 < zyp> I guess it might, or you could simply set the second timer to gate the first after enough time for the required number of pulses have elapsed
2021-06-11T13:33:52 < zyp> but I'm not sure how useful it'd be in practice, don't you have to care about acceleration and deceleration profiles?
2021-06-11T13:34:38 < rob_w> accel/deccel is working already by changing the main TIMs to-count value .. thats fine
2021-06-11T13:35:01 < rob_w> thus changing the pwm period with that 
2021-06-11T13:35:24 < zyp> yeah, but why do you need to count pulses in addition to that?
2021-06-11T13:36:21 < rob_w> so each time the pwm is pulsed the motor steps and now i want to control the amount of steps and stop , position mode kinda 
2021-06-11T13:37:37 < zyp> doesn't the deceleration profile already account for how many steps you need?
2021-06-11T13:37:41 < rob_w> thus i ve to control how many times the first TIM loopes .. i guess i count setup a software counter in the Update IRQ but i guess for real high speeds i will wreck the cpu
2021-06-11T13:38:30 < rob_w> no, the deccel just smoothly increases the TIM count-to target to MAX therefore slowing and stopping in the end , ur right
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2021-06-11T13:39:31 < rob_w> but i love the idea of 2 TIMS interlocked ( thus in hardware) to get this .. 
2021-06-11T13:40:21 < zyp> should be possible as long as the interconnect muxes can all be combined correctly
2021-06-11T13:40:26 < rob_w> i guess i ve to read up on how to do that , just read about such scenrio where Update of first TIM pulses a 2nd TIM and 
2021-06-11T13:41:33 < zyp> you'll want to configure timer B in external clock mode, and source that from the pulse output from timer A
2021-06-11T13:41:58 < rob_w> right .. 
2021-06-11T13:42:01 < zyp> then configure timer A to be gated from timer B output
2021-06-11T13:42:30 < rob_w> i guess i could get IRQ B and disable A via software by then .. 
2021-06-11T13:42:46 < zyp> no, there's hardware gating
2021-06-11T13:42:52 < rob_w> ok ..
2021-06-11T13:43:15 < zyp> let me have a look at the manual
2021-06-11T13:43:47 < rob_w> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D50X00009XkZP9SAN/stop-pwm-output-after-n-steps just found this .. looks quite close 
2021-06-11T13:46:39 < zyp> okay, timer A needs SMCR.SMS = 5 (gated mode) and timer B needs SMCR.SMS = 7 (external clock mode)
2021-06-11T13:47:39 < zyp> SMCR.TS needs to be set to point at each other
2021-06-11T13:48:57 < rob_w> very cool , thanks alot zyp 
2021-06-11T13:48:59 < zyp> and probably CR2.MMS = 4 for both to output OC1REF as TRGO for both
2021-06-11T13:49:21 < zyp> that should make timer A gated by timer B and timer B clocked by timer A
2021-06-11T13:50:26 < zyp> if you want to be extra fancy you could also then use the spare channels on timer B to trigger other events at specific steps (e.g. speed changes)
2021-06-11T13:51:49 < rob_w> thats ok , the thing controls a pretty slow valve which only needs to open abit or close abit over a controlling value ( adblue injection for a gas engine )
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2021-06-11T14:53:17 < zyp> hmm
2021-06-11T14:54:04 < zyp> looks like the CRC peripheral assumes big endian if I do a 32b write?
2021-06-11T14:57:22 < zyp> yep
2021-06-11T14:58:26 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/5upSy
2021-06-11T14:58:43 < zyp> there's settings to reverse bits within bytes, but not to reverse bytes
2021-06-11T14:58:57 < zyp> that's… dumb
2021-06-11T15:28:23 < karlp> yeah, I think the global concensus is "wtf were they smokin"
2021-06-11T15:30:36 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/0ZMHe was my workaround...
2021-06-11T15:34:05 < jpa-> CRC->IDR = 'WTF';
2021-06-11T15:43:08 < zyp> karlp, yeah, I ended up with similar
2021-06-11T15:43:53 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hCnR3
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2021-06-11T19:07:37 < qyx> If only one bit is at 0, the entire double word cannot be written anymore, even with the value 0x0000 0000 0000 0000.
2021-06-11T19:07:40 < qyx> waht st
2021-06-11T19:07:50 < qyx> so the otp is not like fuses
2021-06-11T19:08:08 < qyx> why is this behaviour even wanted
2021-06-11T19:13:04 < jpa-> maybe there is checksum
2021-06-11T19:14:32 < qyx> and for ecc flash the same applies
2021-06-11T19:14:36 < qyx> so no spiffs in the internal flash
2021-06-11T19:15:53 < jpa-> yeah, the huge pages and ECC limit the use of internal flash on some of the newer parts; fortunately there is lot of RAM so using a pure log-structured system works reasonably well
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2021-06-11T19:56:30 < qyx> pages are 2K, thats ok
2021-06-11T19:56:38 < qyx> but the ecc thing makes it nonworking
2021-06-11T19:56:50 < qyx> *erase blocks are 2K
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2021-06-11T20:39:14 < englishman> Join ST for a one-hour webinar to learn how to use the world‘s smallest multispectral Ambient Light Sensor (ALS) to measure lux, color temperature, and flicker in your application.
2021-06-11T20:39:14 < englishman> You'll discover the VD6283, a new ultra-sensitive multispectral color sensor capable of performing fast and accurate light measurement thanks to an individual ADC and a readout for each color channel.
2021-06-11T20:39:20 < englishman> qyx: weren't you interested in something like that?
2021-06-11T20:40:45 < englishman> 2 kHz, pretty trick
2021-06-11T20:44:00 < qyx> hm, yeah
2021-06-11T20:44:13 < qyx> but for IR
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2021-06-11T21:46:32 < englishman> it has an ir element!
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2021-06-11T22:08:43 < jpa-> qyx: ok, on H7 the pages are 128kB
2021-06-11T22:15:29 < qyx> huh
2021-06-11T22:15:36 < qyx> even the ones at the start?
2021-06-11T22:17:36 < jpa-> yeah
2021-06-11T22:18:26 < jpa-> the funniest are STM32H750xB, they have one 128kB sector; nothing else
2021-06-11T22:21:04 < qyx> 128 KB sector with a 64 KB flash?
2021-06-11T22:34:28 < englishman> 128k flash
2021-06-11T22:36:31 < englishman> and 1M ram lol
2021-06-11T22:37:18 < qyx> comparable to esp32
2021-06-11T22:37:41 < qyx> except esp32 is actually obtainable
2021-06-11T22:38:39 < englishman> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/STM32H750IBK6/497-18109-ND/
2021-06-11T22:38:47 < englishman> https://www.worksonmymachine.pro/
2021-06-11T22:39:42 < englishman> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/ESP32-WROOM-32UE%2520(4MB)/1965-ESP32-WROOM-32UE(4MB)CT-ND/11613176
2021-06-11T22:39:43 < englishman> rip stm32
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2021-06-11T23:10:42 < zyp> jpa-, haha, nice
2021-06-11T23:11:16 < zyp> but they have qspi xip, right?
2021-06-11T23:18:30 < GenTooMan> and external DRAM support.
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2021-06-12T13:40:25 < qyx> spiffs is extremely fragile it seems
2021-06-12T13:55:05 < jpa-> i feel like spiffs tries too much
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2021-06-12T14:11:44 < qyx> when a write is interrupted, filesystem check does weird things
2021-06-12T14:11:50 < qyx> and the file disappears
2021-06-12T14:12:04 < qyx> without freeing the space
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2021-06-12T20:51:33 < englishman> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/
2021-06-12T20:55:39 < qyx> lol
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 13 2021
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2021-06-13T21:49:00 < englishman> apparently the pro freechode admins k-lined irccloud?
2021-06-13T21:49:58 < Xogium> did he now ? He also banned tor
2021-06-13T21:50:05 < Xogium> from what I heard
2021-06-13T21:50:39 < Xogium> and one of his minion k-lined a friend of mine out of nowhere, for absolutely no reason at all other than he had something personnal against him
2021-06-13T21:50:48 < zyp> who cares
2021-06-13T21:54:59 < Xogium> englishman: he banned it probably so he could offer a bnc service instead. Actually that's exactly what he's doing
2021-06-13T21:55:52 < englishman> i apologize for offtopic chats zyp
2021-06-13T21:55:59 < englishman> won't do it again
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2021-06-13T22:31:52 < Steffanx> Yep, seems my irccloud account is banned englishman 
2021-06-13T22:48:27 < Steffanx> Fun
2021-06-13T22:49:41 < zyp> I mean if that happened to me I'd rather stop using freenode than stop using irccloud
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 14 2021
2021-06-14T00:00:32 < qyx> Steffanx: are you ok?
2021-06-14T00:00:48 < Steffanx> Sure. Why not?
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 14 00:25:49 2021
--- Log opened Mon Jun 14 00:25:56 2021
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2021-06-14T12:34:35 < rob_w> can someone enlight me , why my TIM timer PWM doesnt stop if i stop at a breakpoint ? is that a hw feature ?
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2021-06-14T12:39:08 < rob_w> .. ah nevermind , found it
2021-06-14T12:42:11 < zyp> found what?
2021-06-14T12:43:07 < zyp> normally all peripherals keep running even if you halt the cpu, but the DBGMCU block has a bunch of freeze bits where you can select specific peripherals to be halted along with the cpu
2021-06-14T12:47:42 < rob_w> hi zyp .. this code i took over from my collegue ( left the company) and he had excluded those tims from debug stops .. thx
2021-06-14T12:48:07 < rob_w> my interlocked timer approach will not work , as those timers dont have that mapping possible
2021-06-14T12:48:13 < rob_w> bb after lunch 
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2021-06-14T13:50:37 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ybybf4tJWw
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2021-06-14T13:58:56 < PaulFertser> oh, I guess I somehow missed joining.
2021-06-14T13:58:58 < PaulFertser> Thanks!
2021-06-14T13:59:12 < Streaker> :)
2021-06-14T13:59:43 < Mangy_Dog> oh there you are
2021-06-14T13:59:49 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i have autojoins setup
2021-06-14T14:03:16 < englishman> theres also ##stm32 on oftc but it's just karl squatting the channel.
2021-06-14T14:03:48 < Mangy_Dog> that sends me back here
2021-06-14T14:04:00 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2021-06-14T14:04:00 < Mangy_Dog> oft
2021-06-14T14:04:05 < Mangy_Dog> oftc
2021-06-14T14:04:15 < Mangy_Dog> im only in 1 chan there
2021-06-14T14:04:21 < Mangy_Dog> linux sunxi
2021-06-14T14:04:27 < Mangy_Dog> as they moved there for some strange reason
2021-06-14T14:04:47 < karlp> because why would you follow the drama here?
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2021-06-14T14:04:58 < karlp> oftc was a known stable third party, I'm surprised more people didn't go there.
2021-06-14T14:05:26 < ventyl> not enough marketing I guess
2021-06-14T14:05:44 < Mangy_Dog> tbh i never knew of that place till this drama happened
2021-06-14T14:05:51 < Mangy_Dog> and only when that one channel moved there
2021-06-14T14:06:06 < karlp> debian's been there for years, amongst others...
2021-06-14T14:06:44 < Xogium> yup, kernelnewbies are there too
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2021-06-14T17:51:28 < Steffanx> qyx_:  are you OK?
2021-06-14T17:52:01 < qyx_> oh, no
2021-06-14T17:52:02 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2021-06-14T17:52:51 < ventyl> tailless qyx
2021-06-14T17:55:38 < Steffanx> I'm still not sure why you asked that Mr qyx 
2021-06-14T17:57:01 < qyx> because 21:31 < Steffanx> Yep, seems my irccloud account is banned englishman 
2021-06-14T17:57:09 < Steffanx> Oh. 
2021-06-14T17:57:26 < Steffanx> Because I used irccloud or Because the ban?
2021-06-14T17:57:43 < qyx> ban
2021-06-14T17:57:45  * qyx concerned
2021-06-14T17:58:24 < srk> irccloud is banned completely no leenode, looks like matrix is next xD
2021-06-14T17:58:36 < Steffanx> Yeah, no unlikely
2021-06-14T17:58:41 < Steffanx> Madness lol
2021-06-14T17:59:57 < ventyl> that's why amount of active connections dropped recently?
2021-06-14T18:00:38 < englishman> yeah apparently they banned matix
2021-06-14T18:00:56 < englishman> however all this drama is offtopic
2021-06-14T18:01:07 < englishman> 06:50	<englishman>	
2021-06-14T18:01:07 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ybybf4tJWw
2021-06-14T18:01:16 < englishman> i found this relatively on-topic and super cool
2021-06-14T18:01:30 < englishman> it's not even the ikea smart lamp but an actual light bulb
2021-06-14T18:02:03 < englishman> a lightbulb with 80 MHz M3.
2021-06-14T18:02:32 < englishman> ha, not even. a M33
2021-06-14T18:02:41 < karlp> fuck, that font
2021-06-14T18:02:49 < karlp> yeah, that's new silabs series 2 stuff
2021-06-14T18:03:00 < karlp> that is a smart lamp though, just not a led one..
2021-06-14T18:03:19 < englishman> yea, with zigbee-ll
2021-06-14T18:03:26 < englishman> i have all tradfri stuff at home
2021-06-14T18:04:20 < englishman> i especially like the motion sensors and wireless outlets
2021-06-14T18:04:31 < karlp> where do youg et the minigun on level1?
2021-06-14T18:04:41 < karlp> I only remember the shotgun in the secret landing.
2021-06-14T18:04:54 < englishman> it's e1m6 he's playing
2021-06-14T18:05:01 < englishman> which apparently has the highest memory demands
2021-06-14T18:05:09 < BrainDamage> some led lamps still have complex controllers to let them be dimmable externally
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2021-06-14T18:16:06 < specing> comlpex? nah
2021-06-14T18:16:09 < specing> just a buck
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2021-06-14T19:09:21 < qyx> meh finding ANYthing in TME's past orders is virtually impossible
2021-06-14T19:09:28 < qyx> it is like 10x faster to search your emails
2021-06-14T19:17:56 < englishman> same with digikey really. and a lot of other distributors
2021-06-14T19:18:22 < jpa-> search in paper copies
2021-06-14T19:33:06 < englishman> I switched to Belden 9223 low noise BNC cables and there's quite a difference in triboelectric noise, I expected hocus pocus but it's true
2021-06-14T19:35:59 < qyx> were your cats problematic?
2021-06-14T19:36:20 < jpa-> englishman: have any numeric values?
2021-06-14T19:37:09 < englishman> no, didn't do any analyses or FFTs or anything just seeing the numbers on the DMM move less.
2021-06-14T19:37:22 < jpa-> ok
2021-06-14T19:37:37 < jpa-> interesting nevertheless
2021-06-14T19:37:52 < jpa-> what kind of measurement range?
2021-06-14T19:39:03 < jpa-> i mean, are we talking nanoamperes or millivolts
2021-06-14T19:46:17 < sauce> even just across 1M it can be pretty significant afaik
2021-06-14T19:46:22 < englishman> nanoamperes and microvolts
2021-06-14T19:47:22 < englishman> mostly nanoamperes though, voltage measurements were already pretty good
2021-06-14T19:47:57 < sauce> what always gets me is how fuckin microphonic a big mlcc is
2021-06-14T19:52:20 < sauce> one generally does not expect audio feedback when there's no microphone in the signal chain
2021-06-14T19:56:34 < zyp> your circuit is all «heard you talking shit»
2021-06-14T19:57:22 < jpa-> i found out my "cheapest i found" owon bench multimeter does averaging over either 15 ms or 30 ms.. which is very useful when most noise is 50 Hz
2021-06-14T20:00:48 < sauce> but is it also a bluetooth speaker and alarm clock?
2021-06-14T20:01:06 < sauce> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0825MX58J
2021-06-14T20:01:33 < jpa-> no, but it cost $20 less so i still have money to get those separately
2021-06-14T20:08:05 < Steffanx> You're not supporting your wonderful soccerball team qyx, i see
2021-06-14T20:08:54 < englishman> hey pros, i have an hour-meter/tach of the type with a wire that wraps around the spark plug lead to detect if the engine is on
2021-06-14T20:09:14 < englishman> i'm adding it to an engine that already has some hours, what's the best way to simulate an engine being on to make the device count up
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2021-06-14T20:16:13 < sauce> have you tried just a mains cable
2021-06-14T20:16:46 < sauce> (or rather a single conductor thereof)
2021-06-14T20:19:53 < BrainDamage> you might have to put multiple turns of the mains cable to emulate the same voltage induction
2021-06-14T20:19:59 < englishman> haven't tried anything yet
2021-06-14T20:21:21 < BrainDamage> 50Hz is 3000rpm, so the ballpark is pretty good
2021-06-14T20:23:08 < sauce> twice that for a 4-stroke
2021-06-14T20:24:17 < sauce> doubt it cares much about the rate though
2021-06-14T20:24:57 < BrainDamage> yeah, just stating it's a "beliveable' engine rpm, so any kind of filtering it has should let it through fine
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2021-06-14T20:27:34 < englishman> I can set the divider to count rpm, but the frequency only has to be high enough to stimulate it into thinking the motor is running. 50-60Hz should be fine
2021-06-14T20:28:14 < qyx> why do you want to add hours?
2021-06-14T20:28:27 < qyx> I would say most of the people might want the opposite
2021-06-14T20:28:44 < englishman> the hourmeter is new, the motor is not, I can remember that there's an offset but having the meter count up is preferred
2021-06-14T20:28:58 < qyx> sell the motor as new!
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2021-06-14T20:54:05 < qyx> Steffanx: apparently we won, people are yelling outside
2021-06-14T21:03:08 < ventyl> nobody is yelling here
2021-06-14T21:03:13 < ventyl> only dogs
2021-06-14T21:13:11 < Steffanx> At least you say "we" qyx :D
2021-06-14T21:35:09 < qyx> a minimum 10-μF effective MLCC capacitance (7 × 10-
2021-06-14T21:35:11 < qyx> μF 0603 package MLCC)
2021-06-14T21:35:13 < qyx> :D
2021-06-14T21:36:16 < qyx> yeah using 0603 10u caps for 24 V
2021-06-14T21:44:54 < qyx> found a DS recommending tantalum, wheres r2com?
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 15 2021
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2021-06-15T06:28:30 < machinehum> umm
2021-06-15T06:28:36 < machinehum> What happened to freenode?
2021-06-15T06:28:48 < machinehum> Am I the only person that can't connect?
2021-06-15T06:37:06 -!- Umbire [~UmbireThe@user/umbire] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-15T06:37:15 < Umbire> Oh, decently populated
2021-06-15T06:37:44 < machinehum> Well lol
2021-06-15T06:37:49 < machinehum> Freenode fucking died
2021-06-15T06:46:54 < machinehum> Umbire: What's up?
2021-06-15T06:47:11 < Umbire> Not much
2021-06-15T06:47:13 < Umbire> About to wash
2021-06-15T06:47:14 < Umbire> you
2021-06-15T06:47:31 < machinehum> nice
2021-06-15T06:47:36 < machinehum> I'll be very clean
2021-06-15T06:47:38 < machinehum> Thanks for that
2021-06-15T06:47:40 < qyx> machinehum: some services like irccloud are banned
2021-06-15T06:47:51 < machinehum> https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_suicide
2021-06-15T06:47:54 < machinehum> ?
2021-06-15T06:47:54 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-15T06:48:08 < machinehum> qyx: The freenode channel is dead no?
2021-06-15T06:48:52 < qyx> it was not yesterday
2021-06-15T06:49:02 < qyx> theres a split ongoing
2021-06-15T06:50:25 < machinehum> I assume most people will just move over here?
2021-06-15T06:51:21 < Umbire> Eventually
2021-06-15T06:51:31 < Umbire> It's "dead"
2021-06-15T06:51:46 < Umbire> The shell of the network is still around but will just fall out of use steadily
2021-06-15T06:51:51 < Umbire> So for all intents and purposes
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2021-06-15T10:10:25 < rob_w> damn it .. i am back to square 1 with my timer setup
2021-06-15T10:11:16 < rob_w> it seems i could make my Timer A to be a Slave of Timer B but i cannot gate Timer B to A 
2021-06-15T10:11:18 < jadew> not smart on their part to be cocky when you can host the whole network on a smartphone
2021-06-15T10:11:37 < jadew> and can set it up in half an hour
2021-06-15T10:26:17 < jadew> is it just me or are 0603s getting smaller as you're getting older?
2021-06-15T10:30:47 < Steffanx> It's not just that. I think even your 30 minutes are longer than my 30 minutes, jadew  ;)
2021-06-15T10:33:28 < jadew> are you implying that you're having more fun?
2021-06-15T10:36:38 < jadew> I wish there was some kind of self balancing tweezers that had a 1/3 reductor
2021-06-15T10:37:03 < jadew> tweezers on a gimbal with 1/3 movement reduction 
2021-06-15T10:37:20 < jadew> that would be a cool tool
2021-06-15T10:37:59 < jadew> and it would have to be as light as regular tweezers ofc
2021-06-15T10:38:54 < ventyl> vintage bonding machines have such stuff
2021-06-15T10:39:44 < jadew> I'm already on the lookout for one of those
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2021-06-15T11:21:41 < jpa-> jadew: my 0603s once got really small.. then i realized i had ordered metric 0603 ;)
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2021-06-15T11:54:52 < englishman> hmm thorn didn't make it over?
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2021-06-15T12:36:20 < karlp> they ircsplit themselves?! wtf
2021-06-15T12:37:20 < Xogium> yeah, because they didn't even think of trying it in a dev setup before doing it in prod, apparently, or they'd have realized that anop and co are not compatible with the old services
2021-06-15T12:38:01 < englishman> <dead> rasengan: hey man i will migrate those nickserv/chanserv databases for you for
2021-06-15T12:38:01 < englishman>        free if you can't do it.
2021-06-15T12:38:01 < englishman> <@rasengan> dead: We could have mirated, it's not hard.
2021-06-15T12:38:01 < englishman> <@rasengan> dead: That's not why.
2021-06-15T12:38:11 < englishman> https://teddit.net/r/irc/comments/o01tmv/freenode_wipes_old_database_and_starts_over/h1sxy13/
2021-06-15T12:38:30 < Xogium> they didn't even warn users afaik
2021-06-15T12:38:47 < karlp> right, that's just garbage, I'm no longer on the status quo.
2021-06-15T12:38:50 < englishman> https://corrupt.tech/1708590130-ocr-compressed.pdf
2021-06-15T12:38:57 < karlp> they had a winning formula, "do nothing"
2021-06-15T12:39:01 < karlp> but no...
2021-06-15T12:39:21 < englishman> yeah well, all those channels that i kept to chat with old pals were gone
2021-06-15T12:39:24 < englishman> along with the pals
2021-06-15T12:39:34 < englishman> so disconnected from freenode thismorning, no reason to sign on at all
2021-06-15T12:40:20 < Xogium> they're basically running 2 irc network side by side
2021-06-15T12:41:44 < Xogium> with old db and stuff being there but on ghost servers
2021-06-15T12:43:04 < englishman> sending off these 10 year old FPGAs for assembly today
2021-06-15T12:43:07 < englishman> i sure hope they work
2021-06-15T12:43:20 < Xogium> ooh, sounds like fun
2021-06-15T12:44:24 < Xogium> do you guys know if it is possible to use tts on stm32 mcu ? Provided it has audio out of course… But like, are there any tts software done for it ?
2021-06-15T12:45:16 < Xogium> my friend is trying to see if he can get something done so I could manage to read the bios of my pc, using a stream capture card, with the stm32 doing the ocr of what the card is giving
2021-06-15T12:46:05 < Xogium> that should work better than trying to do ocr with a phone, at least…
2021-06-15T12:46:17 < englishman> the first thing i was going to suggest was to not do it with a stm32
2021-06-15T12:46:23 < englishman> why add such a restriction?
2021-06-15T12:46:57 < Xogium> well no particular reason, but we were curious if this was even doable
2021-06-15T12:47:07 < karlp> top notch pcb designs: https://pugix.com/synth/ciat-lonbarde-pc-boards/
2021-06-15T12:47:42 < Xogium> in a way it felt linux would be overkill for the task
2021-06-15T12:47:49 < Xogium> but maybe not
2021-06-15T12:48:22 < englishman> the final product is very pretty too
2021-06-15T12:50:52 < karlp> you mean this? https://pugix.com/synth/large-patchable-tetrazzi/
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2021-06-15T13:07:04 < karlp> feck, kicad nightlies have stopped being provided for fed32
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2021-06-15T13:08:34 < englishman> haha... was talking about this https://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/
2021-06-15T13:08:37 < ventyl> Xogium: well, if apple macintosh could do TTS with some 6502, I think, you can do it. But I am not sure if anyone ever tried
2021-06-15T13:10:22 < Xogium> hehe
2021-06-15T13:11:11 < Xogium> I also never owned a mac ;)
2021-06-15T13:11:25 < Xogium> too expensive for what you get imo
2021-06-15T13:12:22 < karlp> just send this to the assembly house right? https://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/paper/nobsrine.pdf 
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2021-06-15T13:16:50 < englishman> isnt that the default EAGLE output
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2021-06-15T14:29:13 < BrainDamage> there's chips from the 80s  that did tts
2021-06-15T14:29:37 < BrainDamage> if you don't mind atonal robotic voice, you can get intelligible speech in anything
2021-06-15T14:29:51 < BrainDamage> it's making it sound human that's much harder
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2021-06-15T14:33:32 < Xogium> BrainDamage: true. And I'm used to espeak, these days. As a matter of fact, I dislike those so-called 'natural tts voices'
2021-06-15T14:34:11 < Xogium> they don't sound natural to me, they sound like some phonemes glued together to form words, which is exactly what they are
2021-06-15T14:34:53 < karlp> do you prefer the original voder? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hyI_dM5cGo
2021-06-15T14:35:28 < Xogium> and since the tone of human voice changes even fractionally from one recorded phoneme to another it feels like they are, I don't think there's a word to describe what it sounds like
2021-06-15T14:37:53 < Xogium> nah :p its too monotone. But hmm, something like the first talking macintosh wasn't that bad, as I recall. It could at least exclaim, sound interrogative, etc
2021-06-15T14:38:32 < Xogium> I was used to ibm tts for years too, viavoice, aka eloquence
2021-06-15T14:39:19 < Xogium> ironically a lot of those so-called natural sounding voices are lacking things like expression
2021-06-15T14:39:51 < Xogium> oh no the right word isn't monotone it's more like, lacking inflection
2021-06-15T14:42:02 < BrainDamage> jesus that synth, I feel like I'm diving in the mind of a schizophrenic guy
2021-06-15T14:42:15 < Xogium> rofl yeah exactly
2021-06-15T14:43:38 < Xogium> some of the not natural voices can even sing, it's quite funny actually
2021-06-15T14:44:32 < Xogium> and they are also way easier to fix when they don,t speak a word properly since you have control over every phoneme
2021-06-15T14:46:08 < karlp> BrainDamage: the "artistic" pcb synth stuff? yeah, there's clearly some fucking absolute nut cases in the diy synth scene.
2021-06-15T14:46:13 < Xogium> someone managed to do this
2021-06-15T14:46:17 < Xogium> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoiPGtjdJUg
2021-06-15T14:46:39 < karlp> 09:47 <@nimh> yeah - the number of designs shared as veroboard layout is spooky
2021-06-15T14:46:41 < karlp> 09:48 <@nimh> I can't follow them, and some dudes who don't know what an op-amp is show up asking why it doesn't work
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2021-06-15T14:52:18 < jadew> my fusion license is about to expire
2021-06-15T14:52:34 < jadew> is solid edge good enough?
2021-06-15T14:55:04 < karlp> "buy now!"
2021-06-15T14:55:11 < karlp> "actually, no, fuck you, we hate your country....."
2021-06-15T14:55:25 < jadew> lol, which one is that?
2021-06-15T14:55:55 < karlp> solid edge
2021-06-15T14:56:03 < jadew> solid edge has a community version, which is free, I want to buy that one
2021-06-15T14:56:11 < karlp> are you planning on using it for pcbs too?
2021-06-15T14:56:18 < jadew> no, can it do PCBs?
2021-06-15T14:56:48 < karlp> "Note: Files created in this edition cannot be opened in commercial versions of Solid Edge"
2021-06-15T14:56:54 < karlp> yeah, solid edge itself looks like a complete solution
2021-06-15T14:57:00 < karlp> solid edge community looks like trash
2021-06-15T14:57:07 < karlp> and is only the cad bit
2021-06-15T14:58:32 < jadew> well, the regular one seems to be subscription based
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2021-06-15T14:59:02 < jadew> I thought that if the community one is for life, the regular one would be too, but I guess not
2021-06-15T14:59:10 < jadew> I'm in the same situation I was in last year :/
2021-06-15T14:59:37 < jadew> my problem is that I don't do enough with these type of programs to be worth it to pay a yearly subscription
2021-06-15T14:59:49 < jadew> but I still need something decent
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2021-06-15T15:02:57 < zyp> yeah, that's the problem with subscriptions
2021-06-15T15:04:32 < BrainDamage> cojocad when?
2021-06-15T15:05:11 < jadew> BrainDamage, considered it, cannot do it by myself because it would take too long
2021-06-15T15:06:40 < jadew> maybe when I'll have a programming department with ≥ 5 guys
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2021-06-15T15:10:06 < karlp> ==> freecad
2021-06-15T15:10:14 -!- c10ud_ is now known as c10ud
2021-06-15T15:10:36 < jadew> the only problem with freecad is that it sucks
2021-06-15T15:11:09  * karlp it literally just printing off signed machinging documents made in kicad for manufacturing
2021-06-15T15:11:12 < karlp> in freecad sorry
2021-06-15T15:11:34 < karlp> it sucks a lot less than paying €xk and still being the same.
2021-06-15T15:11:38 < jadew> it's definitely usable, but it's a PITA
2021-06-15T15:11:50 < karlp> I'm sure trained users can do more faster  but likeyou, I don't do stuff enough to need more
2021-06-15T15:11:54 < karlp> and certainyl nto enough to pay
2021-06-15T15:12:09 < jadew> you're using freecad?
2021-06-15T15:12:42 < karlp> yeah, and kicad and qcad
2021-06-15T15:12:56 < karlp> me and my awesome massive development team....
2021-06-15T15:13:13 < jadew> I guess it deserves another try, it's been a year since last time, maybe it's different now
2021-06-15T15:13:31 < karlp> I have a feeling you're going to hate it no matter what, forever :)
2021-06-15T15:13:52 < jadew> ah, I always make an effort to like it
2021-06-15T15:14:10 < karlp> also, my uses for it have been "take vendor case model files, add kicad pcb model files, check for fit, and make cuts in appropriate places"
2021-06-15T15:14:17 < jadew> but last time I tried to make a cylinder with a filet and it added an extra feature to the filet, because there was an extra edge in the model
2021-06-15T15:14:33 < karlp> so I'm not really pushing any boundaries
2021-06-15T15:14:59 < jadew> I'm not making overly complicated things either, don't worry
2021-06-15T15:15:09 < karlp> I've also been exporting tech drawings from it, and it's all been generally pleasing how much someone like me can get done, even if it does have some infuriatingly weird non-obvious bits.
2021-06-15T15:15:22 < karlp> I've put a lto of that down to "I've got no experience with any other 3d design either"
2021-06-15T15:15:34 < jadew> ever used fusion?
2021-06-15T15:15:38 < karlp> nope.
2021-06-15T15:15:48 < karlp> so I dont' even know the name of the function I want to be looking for :)
2021-06-15T15:15:49 < jadew> don't, because then you will see freecad with different eyes
2021-06-15T15:16:09 < karlp> pretty sure it will be the same, "no way I can pay this for how often I use it"
2021-06-15T15:16:26 < jadew> yeah, it's still expensive
2021-06-15T15:16:53 < jadew> getting new freecad
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2021-06-15T15:22:42 < bitmask> hi
2021-06-15T15:24:37 < karlp> welcome home
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2021-06-15T16:13:26 < karlp> heh, "stm32WB countermeasures" "temperature sensor"
2021-06-15T16:13:46 < karlp> I mean, ok.... but still, listing that as number 1 countermeasure?
2021-06-15T16:16:01 < karlp> they're still taling abotu ac6:sw4stm32 as an IDE option?
2021-06-15T16:16:09 < karlp> I thought that was completely over?
2021-06-15T16:23:01 < karlp> heh, claming sub $ for wb15 and wb10 in volumes.
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2021-06-15T16:54:43 < jadew> I just realized I lost > $1k in cables :/
2021-06-15T16:55:03 < jadew> I missed a critical detail in the freaking drawings I agreed to
2021-06-15T16:55:12 < jadew> the cable doesn't have a jacket :/
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2021-06-15T17:00:49 < jadew> what a fucking month
2021-06-15T17:01:12 < jadew> last week I destroyed the keyboard of a VNA
2021-06-15T17:01:17 < jadew> I should take a break
2021-06-15T17:02:57 < jadew> I guess I can cut the SMA connectors off, apply heatshrink and then put new connectors on
2021-06-15T17:03:20 < jadew> what a freaking waste...
2021-06-15T17:04:10 < jadew> I guess I could take the opportunity and buy a heatshrink printer so I can brand the cables :P
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2021-06-15T17:23:30 < karlp> thanks python: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/59493715/resolve-argparse-alias-back-to-the-original-command
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2021-06-15T17:28:04 < mawk> azerty
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2021-06-15T17:48:12 < Steffanx> Oh, you mean new freenode mawk. No. Nick unregistered, Channel unregistered. Fuck that. Bye freenode.
2021-06-15T17:50:33 < BrainDamage> I wonder what's going to remain of freenode when he's done
2021-06-15T17:50:41 < BrainDamage> the only thing atm left is the name
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2021-06-15T17:53:12 < mawk> whop whop
2021-06-15T17:53:36 < ventyl> BrainDamage: ...shame?
2021-06-15T17:59:08 < jadew> Steffanx, to me it still shows as registered
2021-06-15T17:59:42 < Xogium> jadew: you're on a ghost server
2021-06-15T18:00:09 < jadew> that means that I must be a ghost
2021-06-15T18:00:09 < Xogium> the old database and stuff are still there, but they are all gone from the irc nodes
2021-06-15T18:00:25 < Xogium> a bit like what a netsplit would do
2021-06-15T18:00:42 < BrainDamage> my account is still on in tower.freenode.net
2021-06-15T18:00:52 < Xogium> except it was done on purpose, and that lee doesn't intend to migrate them
2021-06-15T18:01:21 < Xogium> yes the old servers are still up, but they probably will be taken down sooner or later
2021-06-15T18:01:56 < Xogium> they knew the database of users and channels couldn't be migrated, but they didn't care and did the transition anyway
2021-06-15T18:02:24 < jadew> I fail to see how a database cannot be migrated
2021-06-15T18:02:38 < Xogium> they even expect you to register your nick again, as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened
2021-06-15T18:02:42 < jadew> they just don't give a crap
2021-06-15T18:02:45 < Xogium> not the same irc services
2021-06-15T18:02:58 < jadew> anyway, I'm going to eat
2021-06-15T18:03:00 < jadew> ttyl
2021-06-15T18:03:04 < Xogium> the databases are not compatible between the two irc servers they chose
2021-06-15T18:03:26 < BrainDamage> you can always create a conversion program
2021-06-15T18:03:32 < BrainDamage> you just have to care
2021-06-15T18:04:17 < Xogium> of course you can, but lee didn't want. He wants to get rid of all the users that don't want the new freenode, from what I read. He went like, all of you that want to migrate to libra, do it now, go go go !
2021-06-15T18:05:19 < Xogium> though to be fair, it's known that he does drugs so I doubt he's acting rationally and is probably on a constant high
2021-06-15T18:06:34 < Xogium> reckon he just doesn't realize or even care that at this point he'll drive the entire userbase away, not just the ones who didn't plan on staying anyway
2021-06-15T18:07:34 < ventyl> oh, so this is coreboot case?
2021-06-15T18:07:45 < Xogium> hmm ?
2021-06-15T18:08:17 < ventyl> where one chick high AF made a lot of negative publicity and had to settle things down after she ran out of drugs before development team forked project and left her alone
2021-06-15T18:08:30 < Xogium> hah, might be, for all we know
2021-06-15T18:10:28 < Xogium> the only part that got me annoyed in all of this honestly wasn't the suicide of freenode, but the reports I read on reddit that people are moving to matrix because they consider irc dead, and act like noone under 30 cares about irc these days
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2021-06-15T18:21:04 < mawk> the trans girl ventyl ?
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2021-06-15T18:21:17 < mawk> how do you know he's using drugs Xogium ?
2021-06-15T18:21:37 < mawk> why are you on reddit Xogium please cease immediately
2021-06-15T18:22:04 < Xogium> I'm not, I'm not even surbscribed. I just saw it in passing from other people
2021-06-15T18:22:42 < Xogium> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27510824
2021-06-15T18:22:58 < Xogium> mainly the stuff that is mention about him working for ltm
2021-06-15T18:23:42 < ventyl> mawk: IDK what exactly was she at that time, aside from drug abuser
2021-06-15T18:24:25 < mawk> coke and weed, that's nothing
2021-06-15T18:24:27 < mawk> everyone does it
2021-06-15T18:24:30 < mawk> even Steffanx 
2021-06-15T18:25:02 < Xogium> I've never ever touched drug in my whole life
2021-06-15T18:25:04 < Xogium> :p
2021-06-15T18:25:10 < mawk> no alcohol?
2021-06-15T18:25:11 < PaulFertser> Xogium: not even ethanol?
2021-06-15T18:25:22 < Xogium> none
2021-06-15T18:25:34 < mawk> no endorphins from having a girl in your bed?
2021-06-15T18:25:42 < mawk> nobody said endogenous drugs didn't count
2021-06-15T18:25:51 < Xogium> lol nah
2021-06-15T18:26:04 < Xogium> not even that, but I don't really mind tbh
2021-06-15T18:26:33 < mawk> if you prefer boys that's okay
2021-06-15T18:27:17 < Xogium> I just don't have preference ;) being blind makes that sort of stuff, well
2021-06-15T18:27:45 < Xogium> I guess I just don't get any interest because I can't see pretty people
2021-06-15T18:28:09 < mawk> you can smell pretty people
2021-06-15T18:28:11 < mawk> or feel them
2021-06-15T18:28:18 < mawk> hear their sweet voices
2021-06-15T18:28:45 < Xogium> but it's not the same as seeing does for eyes, I think
2021-06-15T18:29:49 < mawk> maybe
2021-06-15T18:30:01 < Xogium> I don't know hehe I never saw, so I don't really regret not seeing. There's just some times where its beyond annoying though
2021-06-15T18:30:06 < mawk> I saw a brand new blind guy on the street today, he must have acquired cecity recently
2021-06-15T18:30:17 < mawk> he was trying to get ran over by the tramway and then by a truck
2021-06-15T18:30:24 < mawk> so I redirected him by the elbow
2021-06-15T18:30:33 < Streaker> make sure and wear 22 condoms when having sex!
2021-06-15T18:30:46 < Xogium> getting to see then going blind is a lot worse than never seeing in the first place. I guess I'm lucky in a way, I just don't realize what I'm missing
2021-06-15T18:30:58 < mawk> smell is a big part of sexual desire
2021-06-15T18:31:01 < mawk> seeing isn't all
2021-06-15T18:31:11 < mawk> touch also
2021-06-15T18:31:24 < ventyl> most of time it is dark anyway
2021-06-15T18:32:07 < BrainDamage> saying you never take drugs is a bit of a misnomer, even food has psychoactive compounds
2021-06-15T18:32:42 < mawk> but most get destroyed in your stomach7
2021-06-15T18:32:46 < mawk> unless you eat massive amounts of food
2021-06-15T18:32:56 < mawk> stomach or liver or whatever
2021-06-15T18:33:19 < mawk> like phenethylamine of chocolate 
2021-06-15T18:34:28 < BrainDamage> grapefruit goes straight through to mess up your hormonal balance
2021-06-15T18:34:42 < Xogium> gotta love those huh
2021-06-15T18:35:08 < mawk> grapefruit is the best
2021-06-15T18:35:08 < BrainDamage> it's not the only likely, but it's the most documented
2021-06-15T18:35:19 < mawk> especially white grapefruit
2021-06-15T18:35:24 < mawk> I used to take it to potentiate my drugs
2021-06-15T18:35:46 < BrainDamage> it's hard to have a placebo for food
2021-06-15T18:35:53 < BrainDamage> you tend to notice :p
2021-06-15T18:36:28 < mawk> grapefruit inhibits the enzymes that degrades many drugs to their inactive forms
2021-06-15T18:37:06 < mawk> tofu is food placebo
2021-06-15T18:37:14 < ventyl> so weed + grapefruit?
2021-06-15T18:37:21 < mawk> weed is an unusual drug
2021-06-15T18:38:09 < BrainDamage> oh and aspirine, the more we understand aspirine the more we're puzzled with it
2021-06-15T18:38:19 < BrainDamage> it's like it affects ... everything
2021-06-15T18:38:50 < mawk> ethanol too
2021-06-15T18:55:09 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2021-06-15T19:01:54 < Steffanx> I dont do coke nor weed, don't tell lies mawk
2021-06-15T19:17:01 < t4nk_freenode> that's a little suspicious there Steffanx ... double denial
2021-06-15T19:23:10 < mawk> yes I think t4nk_freenode is onto something, your denial is suspicious Steffanx 
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2021-06-15T19:59:50 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-06-15T20:42:58 < jadew> youtubers boxing with each other: https://youtu.be/Bt7cL1LAKP0?t=1448
2021-06-15T20:43:28 < jadew> (and ticktokers
2021-06-15T20:43:30 < jadew> )
2021-06-15T20:44:09 < bitmask> fuck, i ruined my printer
2021-06-15T20:44:35 < jadew> 3d printer?
2021-06-15T20:44:41 < bitmask> yea
2021-06-15T20:45:25 < bitmask> i took it all apart to upgrade some stuff and make sure everything was square, but now that its rebuilt its all sorts of fucked up
2021-06-15T20:46:17 < jadew> at least it's square
2021-06-15T20:46:25 < bitmask> haha maybe
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2021-06-15T20:55:51 < Steffanx> Poor bitmask 
2021-06-15T20:57:48 -!- emeryth [emeryth@2a0d:eb00:2137:2:223:aeff:fefe:458c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2021-06-15T20:59:46 < t4nk_freenode> jadew, ... they look like they're ready to be wheeled out on a stretcher with severe head injuries before the fight even
2021-06-15T20:59:51 < t4nk_freenode> with those silly hats
2021-06-15T21:01:14 < jadew> doubtful they can get head injuries in there
2021-06-15T21:01:35 < PaulFertser> A silly hat is nicer than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauliflower_ear
2021-06-15T21:02:07 < jadew> you develop that over a long period of time, they wouldn't get it from just one fight
2021-06-15T21:02:36 < englishman> i would watch AvE vs. eevblag
2021-06-15T21:02:45 < t4nk_freenode> you've clearly never had a piano drop on your head whilst walking the streets then.
2021-06-15T21:03:36 < jadew> big clive vs fran blanche
2021-06-15T21:04:00 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, that's not nice, PaulFertser 
2021-06-15T21:04:23 < bitmask> ave vs this old tony 
2021-06-15T21:04:40 < bitmask> fuck eevblog :P
2021-06-15T21:05:29 < BrainDamage> In 19th-century Hong Kong opium dens, opium users would develop cauliflower ear from long periods sleeping on hard wooden pillows.[13] 
2021-06-15T21:05:48 < BrainDamage> mawk, do you have it?
2021-06-15T21:06:20 < bitmask> anyone ever use osh laser?
2021-06-15T21:06:25 < bitmask> or whatever its called
2021-06-15T21:09:08 < t4nk_freenode> lol.. this 'why am I getting an 8-count'-look just doesn't convince when it's given while the giver is grabbing the ropes to keep upright
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2021-06-15T21:10:15 < t4nk_freenode> man, those guys would get severely hurt within seconds if they were up against a real boxer
2021-06-15T21:10:32 < t4nk_freenode> they're doing everything wrong
2021-06-15T21:11:21 < BrainDamage> most people don't have real fighting experience
2021-06-15T21:11:26 < t4nk_freenode> nope.
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2021-06-15T21:13:18 < jadew> I wonder if it's too late for me to get boxing lessons
2021-06-15T21:13:35 < Steffanx> No why
2021-06-15T21:13:48 < Steffanx> Maybe go for something more intimate like Judo
2021-06-15T21:13:49 -!- con3 [~con3@41.71.25.244] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-15T21:14:51 < BrainDamage> mud wrestling is where's at
2021-06-15T21:15:05 < jadew> you'd want to take a couple of martial arts really, judo is another one
2021-06-15T21:15:32 < jadew> boxing, wrestling, judo
2021-06-15T21:15:49 < jadew> and jui jitsu
2021-06-15T21:17:57 < jadew> then you can hit the clubs and get in trouble
2021-06-15T21:20:59 < englishman> plenty of dudes start doing martial arts at middle age
2021-06-15T21:21:01 < englishman> it's never too late
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2021-06-15T21:26:20 < machinehum> umm
2021-06-15T21:26:26 < machinehum> wtf is this place http://www.epart123.com/
2021-06-15T21:26:28 < machinehum> ?
2021-06-15T21:26:28 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-15T21:26:58 < machinehum> Stole the internet explorer logo, images are blurry as fuck, chinese all over the place
2021-06-15T21:27:02 < machinehum> Looks highly sus
2021-06-15T21:27:16  * qyx ordering a stm32wl5
2021-06-15T21:27:19 < machinehum> However they have the PMIC I need
2021-06-15T21:28:15 < con3> that site looks so dodge
2021-06-15T21:29:38 < machinehum> More than 10000 buyers have chosen Epart123
2021-06-15T21:30:19 < machinehum> I wonder if I can knock my credit card right in there
2021-06-15T21:30:38 < con3> " More than 10000 buyers have chosen Epart123" they have gained my trust
2021-06-15T21:31:33 < englishman> i like how all the links at the bottom just redirect to the home page
2021-06-15T21:32:16 < qyx> and re stm32wl, I found this nice thing https://www.mouser.sk/ProductDetail/Johanson-Technology/0900FM15D0039E?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvP5rsyZw058YCjA5XAgXoL%2FHNTxS7BrAit9l6MpZ88%252Bw%3D%3D
2021-06-15T21:33:56 < qyx> https://www.johansontechnology.com/semtech
2021-06-15T21:35:18 < qyx> meh those are for 915 MHz
2021-06-15T21:36:38 < englishman> saves a lot of board space
2021-06-15T21:38:23 < qyx> yeah https://bin.jvnv.net/file/TKtux/Screenshot_2021-06-15_20-38-05.png
2021-06-15T21:38:53 < qyx> I assume you could omit the t/r switch too under some circumstances
2021-06-15T21:39:07 < englishman> there were some matching circuits i played with that let you do that yeah
2021-06-15T21:39:24 < englishman> but they weren't as efficient, took more space blah blah not worth it
2021-06-15T21:40:25 < qyx> I guess those are 0201 passives
2021-06-15T21:40:34 < qyx> roughly the same size as the QFN pad itself
2021-06-15T21:43:29 < qyx> During our tests, we have verified the TX power at 868MHz to be excellent when pairing the 0900FM15D0039 with the Semtech SX126x series for
2021-06-15T21:43:32 < qyx> 868MHz operation. Please be aware, however, that we experience an average of 3dB decrease in RX sensitivity. This is where we look to improve
2021-06-15T21:43:35 < qyx> in our world-wide version.
2021-06-15T21:43:53 < qyx> For designers looking toward using the new part, we will ensure that it is drop-in compatible with the current 0900FM15D0039. It will share the same
2021-06-15T21:43:56 < qyx> PCB footprint and over-all layout guidelines.
2021-06-15T21:44:01 < qyx> good
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2021-06-15T22:49:51 < Steffanx> akaWolf:  hi
2021-06-15T22:49:59 < mawk> who dared talk to me
2021-06-15T22:50:10 < akaWolf> Steffanx: hi!
2021-06-15T22:50:16 < mawk> no my ears are beautiful BrainDamage 
2021-06-15T22:57:12 < machinehum> When design a mains to 5V adapters, usually you put like 5mm or whatever of isolation between the mains and LV electronics. Does the can of a HV cap count?
2021-06-15T22:57:24 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurence@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-15T22:57:28 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-06-15T22:57:42 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/Uph0WYq
2021-06-15T22:57:47 < machinehum> Laurenceb: sup
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2021-06-15T23:08:16 < qyx> machinehum: I would say why not, see clearance and creepage distances
2021-06-15T23:09:30 < machinehum> Damn
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2021-06-15T23:25:04 < bitmask> Maximum deviations: -0.080 / 0.072 mm
2021-06-15T23:25:04 < bitmask> Mean error: -0.005 mm
2021-06-15T23:25:08 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fhsZhxz.png
2021-06-15T23:25:12 < bitmask> beautiful
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2021-06-15T23:31:03 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@188-67-18-82.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-15T23:31:18 < kakium69> poo
2021-06-15T23:32:16 < kakium69> 😂
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2021-06-15T23:37:07 < kakium69> ?
2021-06-15T23:37:07 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-15T23:37:24 < kakium69> ?
2021-06-15T23:37:24 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-15T23:37:53 < Laurenceb> poo poo pee pee
2021-06-15T23:37:53 < PaulFertser> ?xnand=annoying bot
2021-06-15T23:37:53 < xnand> Done
2021-06-15T23:37:56 < PaulFertser> ?xnand
2021-06-15T23:37:57 < xnand> xnand is annoying bot
2021-06-15T23:38:20 < kakium69> ?kakium69
2021-06-15T23:38:20 < xnand> I don't know about kakium69
2021-06-15T23:39:03 < kakium69> good
2021-06-15T23:40:02 < kakium69> dongs is not here!
2021-06-15T23:40:44 < Steffanx> kakium69?
2021-06-15T23:40:54 < Steffanx> ah that has been fixed.
2021-06-15T23:41:27 < kakium69> dongs is important
2021-06-15T23:45:25 < kakium69> ?help
2021-06-15T23:45:25 < xnand> I don't know about help
2021-06-15T23:45:32 < kakium69> ?usage
2021-06-15T23:45:32 < xnand> I don't know about usage
2021-06-15T23:45:48 < kakium69> xnand
2021-06-15T23:46:23 < kakium69> only thing it does is keyword storage?
2021-06-15T23:49:04 < Steffanx> ?yes=yes
2021-06-15T23:49:04 < xnand> Done
2021-06-15T23:49:10 < Steffanx> ?yes
2021-06-15T23:49:10 < xnand> yes is yes
2021-06-15T23:49:16 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-06-15T23:49:26 < Steffanx> ?yes=no
2021-06-15T23:49:26 < xnand> Done
2021-06-15T23:49:32 < Steffanx> ?yes
2021-06-15T23:49:32 < xnand> yes is no
2021-06-15T23:51:43 < PaulFertser> ?freedom=slavery
2021-06-15T23:51:43 < xnand> Done
2021-06-15T23:53:32 < kakium69> yaiks
2021-06-15T23:54:45 < kakium69> ?yes
2021-06-15T23:54:45 < xnand> yes is no
2021-06-15T23:54:52 < kakium69> ?freedom
2021-06-15T23:54:52 < xnand> freedom is slavery
--- Day changed Wed Jun 16 2021
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2021-06-16T00:43:42 < kakium69> wow I found scifi from 2000's I have never seen
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2021-06-16T00:52:55 < qyx> octopart forgot all my watched parts
2021-06-16T00:52:56 < qyx> wtf
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2021-06-16T01:20:07 < Steffanx> What did you find kakium69 
2021-06-16T01:20:22 < kakium69> The Cell
2021-06-16T01:20:40 < kakium69> seems like thriller so far
2021-06-16T01:22:26 < kakium69> okay 35mins in now plot thickens
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2021-06-16T01:49:27 < t4nk_freenode> pretty boring movie all in all
2021-06-16T01:49:34 < t4nk_freenode> let alone the sequel
2021-06-16T01:50:10 < t4nk_freenode> level 'SAW MCDXVII'
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2021-06-16T10:46:12 < kakium69> can you recommend any 2-4 channel DSO
2021-06-16T10:46:52 < kakium69> that could stream samples to computer
2021-06-16T10:47:19 < kakium69> ie. minutes of detailed signal data from canbus
2021-06-16T10:49:49 < kakium69> so 10-20megasamples per second at least
2021-06-16T10:51:02 < zyp> do you need it analog? can't you just hook up a can transceiver to a logic analyzer?
2021-06-16T10:51:09 < kakium69> analog ofc
2021-06-16T10:51:20 < zyp> why?
2021-06-16T10:51:42 < zyp> are you debugging comms that don't work, or reverse engineering working comms?
2021-06-16T10:51:43 < kakium69> if I need to troubleshoot signal?
2021-06-16T10:53:06 < zyp> well, it's just that 10-20msps of analog data quickly becomes a lot of data
2021-06-16T10:55:03 < zyp> while digital data is trivial to RLE
2021-06-16T10:55:47 < zyp> that said, I'd expect that the analog capable saleaes would do what you want
2021-06-16T10:58:09 < ventyl> combined with shitload of RAM
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2021-06-16T11:01:15 < jpa-> kakium69: if you are debugging intermitten analog issues, i would use the eye diagram / peak detect mode available on many scopes; then you can see if there is e.g. some noise spikes or wrong logic levels
2021-06-16T11:01:31 < jpa-> but for debugging protocol level issues, i would use logic analyzer
2021-06-16T11:01:52 < ventyl> i debugged SPI at 4MHz and it produced gigabytes of data in just minute-long run
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2021-06-16T12:20:20 < karlp> I was debugging spi at 4Mhz and wondering why it was so shit.....
2021-06-16T12:20:46 < karlp> turned out I'd foolishly carried over speed assumptions from a different gen of chip... old was 10Mhz capable, new was only 1.2Mhz capable.... :)
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2021-06-16T12:21:05 < ventyl> well, it turned out that we had similar assumption
2021-06-16T12:21:17 < karlp> heh.
2021-06-16T12:21:24 < ventyl> chip was capable of only 4MHz, we ran SPI at 5MHz
2021-06-16T12:21:55 < karlp> yar, datasheet for the new one even had as minimum sclock width implying 2.3Mhz, but a note elsewhere that max spi rate was 1200bps.
2021-06-16T12:22:15 < karlp> and funnily enough 1.5Meg was pretty rough, 1Meg is 100% reliabl :)
2021-06-16T12:22:39 < ventyl> despite this, and lack of series resistors on SPI which caused *a lot* of ringing, it still was fully functional and not at fault I've been debugging
2021-06-16T12:24:18 < ventyl> all in all, that particular bug finally convinced me, that I don't want to work there anymore
2021-06-16T12:31:09 < karlp> hrm, bt 5.3 docs are up for approval
2021-06-16T12:31:13 < karlp> I wonder what they're doing this time
2021-06-16T12:31:43  * qyx awaiting sub-gig
2021-06-16T12:31:54 < karlp> fucking hope not.
2021-06-16T12:32:09 < karlp> the coded phy shit already does a km or something
2021-06-16T12:32:15 < karlp> fuck your big antenna bullshit
2021-06-16T12:32:21 < qyx> fuck 2.4G
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2021-06-16T12:32:41 < karlp> 2.4gig4lyfe
2021-06-16T12:33:15 < qyx> I hope FM radio is decommisioned soon
2021-06-16T12:33:27 < karlp> I could give a shit abotu sub gig if it wasn't different freqs for eu/us/rest of world.
2021-06-16T12:33:34 < qyx> to free some ISM bands for greater good
2021-06-16T12:34:03 < karlp> and all polluted by OOK weather statoins blasting shit
2021-06-16T12:34:27 < qyx> meh if 2.4G wasn't
2021-06-16T12:34:51 < qyx> all those apples transmitting 50 GB updates over their 3x3 2.4G N mimo
2021-06-16T12:35:01 < qyx> *as if
2021-06-16T12:35:27 < qyx> k, enuff trolling
2021-06-16T12:35:30 < qyx> back to work
2021-06-16T12:36:06  * qyx ordering some weipu's
2021-06-16T12:36:31 < ventyl> ordering, or just putting into cart?
2021-06-16T12:36:51 < qyx> haha
2021-06-16T12:39:54 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-06-16T12:39:59 < qyx> I have sworn I never order anything other than threaded metric (M12, M8, etc)
2021-06-16T12:40:12 < qyx> because they have one property I have not seen elsewhere
2021-06-16T12:40:48 < qyx> there is no ambiguity wrt their gender and inner/outer thread
2021-06-16T12:41:10 < qyx> also there are no "inline cable plugs", a.k.a. a socket-shaped cable plug
2021-06-16T12:41:54 < qyx> with Mx, it is clear a male connector has outer thread, female has inner
2021-06-16T12:42:42 < qyx> and a male plug mates with a female panel socket or a female cable plug in the same way
2021-06-16T12:42:59 < ventyl> how is it possible, that I don't have any stupid diode here?
2021-06-16T12:43:02 < qyx> and the other way around a female cable plug can mate to a male panel socket, which is not possible with other connector systems
2021-06-16T12:43:08 < ventyl> i must have ordered shitload of them
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2021-06-16T13:17:11 < PaulFertser> Do Danish people really need this kind of convincing to wear a helmet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m-c4GixUpg ? Oh, hm, put it another way, can this video actually work to convince any push bike rider who's not already wearing a helmet to start doing it?
2021-06-16T13:20:30 < PaulFertser> And is this video really cool and funny in your opinion?
2021-06-16T13:26:00 < Steffanx> cool and funny? Not to me.
2021-06-16T13:26:49 < Steffanx> i guess they do need some sort of convincing. Maybe the dutch do too, its rather uncommon to wear a helmet here
2021-06-16T13:29:09 < Steffanx> Im more into the shocking type of advertisement for that, but maybe the faint of hairt wont like it
2021-06-16T13:29:46 < ventyl> it's 2021
2021-06-16T13:29:49 < ventyl> you can't shock people
2021-06-16T13:30:26 < PaulFertser> Probably serious head trauma is not too common among cyclists?
2021-06-16T13:30:55 < Steffanx> more like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qNjt04bpQM
2021-06-16T13:31:15 < ventyl> from what i've seen and heard, more common are broken legs, arms, ribs 'n' stuff
2021-06-16T13:31:15 < Steffanx> maybe not shocking, but the message is more serious/clear. imho
2021-06-16T13:32:02 < PaulFertser> I personally wear a helmet all the time, but I'm riding in traffic, not on those silly slow bike lanes (we almost do not have them here). 
2021-06-16T13:33:39 < PaulFertser> If I was rarely going above 15 km/h I probably wouldn't really feel a need to use a helmet.
2021-06-16T13:34:26 < Steffanx> i only wear a helmet on my "racing bicycle" (whatever the proper name is), not on my other bicycle. And I avoid busy traffic in general, its much nicer to see some sort of nature.
2021-06-16T13:34:53 < ventyl> without speedometer, you don't have to worry, if you ride above 15km/h
2021-06-16T13:35:31 < Steffanx> but its not a bad idea to wear one, but ... meh. I'd rather see the kids wear them, then me personally :p
2021-06-16T13:38:16 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I agree, this video is more convincing to me. BTW, the danish video was shared on some russian motorbike community website (kinda like motor-bike-themed medium.com) and they seem to all like it. Weird, go figure, probably we ##stm32 people really _are_ oddballs.
2021-06-16T13:39:04 < Steffanx> or the motorbike community is more a gathering of pussies :P
2021-06-16T13:40:16 < PaulFertser> btw, what I can't understand is why regular cars have the throttle pedal located kinda much deeper than the brake. You can't even blip the throttle when downshifting while braking because the throttle is too far for the heel to reach, right? How does it make sense?
2021-06-16T13:41:46 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: yes, this particular community is more safety-focused than one would expect. Many people wear all gear all the time, mention reading "twist of the wrist" regularly etc.
2021-06-16T13:46:33 < ventyl> i'd expect, that it is a matter of ergonomy. you push throttle pedal 99% of time, so you want to have your leg in more relaxed position. you don't even have to have so much force available as you don't need force to push throttle
2021-06-16T13:47:10 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: there's another strange thing about the video you shared (apart from the throttle pedal location). The cars in question look not ancient so clearly ABS would be fully engaged at the point. That would mean the "speeding" driver has every opportunity to continue steering his vehicle and given there's no traffic on the other side of the road it would be unnatural not to try switching to
2021-06-16T13:47:13 < ventyl> brake and clutch are only pressed remaining 1% of time and you may need to have some travel distance to maintain accuracy while applying force
2021-06-16T13:47:16 < PaulFertser> the other lane.
2021-06-16T13:47:46 < ventyl> when I was driving only in the city, I "modded" my car to have throttle pedal even further
2021-06-16T13:48:31 < PaulFertser> ventyl: modern brakes seem to be quite sensitive, so it shouldn't take more force than the throttle I'd say.
2021-06-16T13:48:48 < ventyl> well, it does, orders of magnitude more
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2021-06-16T13:49:07 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-06-16T13:49:39 < Steffanx> lol its not strange PaulFertser. Its drama, not logic ;) And im not sure at that speed you can make it anyway.
2021-06-16T13:49:49 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: steering works at any speed
2021-06-16T13:49:55 < Laurenceb> anyone know where I could buy some small ventilated stainless steel enclosures?
2021-06-16T13:50:05 < qyx> a stainless steel shop
2021-06-16T13:50:15 < Laurenceb> like pen sort of size, for vandal proof air sensing
2021-06-16T13:50:28 < Laurenceb> cant find anything like that on farnell...
2021-06-16T13:50:40 < Steffanx> sure, but there is still the reaction time, the steering movement and that in 1-2 seconds?
2021-06-16T13:50:48 < PaulFertser> ventyl: where was your heel located? Normal position is across the brake pedal, you do not move it at all switching from accelerating to braking, just twist the foot around it.
2021-06-16T13:50:49 < Laurenceb> theres got to be something off the shelf...
2021-06-16T13:50:59 < Steffanx> i think breaking is for many people the default response, then maybe steering.
2021-06-16T13:51:55 < Steffanx> im pretty sure i do move my feet and heel PaulFertser. but im not sure, its automagic :P
2021-06-16T13:53:22 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: if I'm to believe the video it's like 50 m between the car at the moment the moron started to turn. So even braking action would likely not have been started in a case like that.
2021-06-16T13:54:31 < ventyl> PaulFertser: TBH I don't know. I would have to sit into car and pay attention to this. but in my case it was more about angle I'
2021-06-16T13:54:38 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: can you be sure that's the proper technique though? I do not think I've heard any reputable source suggest that.
2021-06-16T13:54:54 < ventyl> d have to keep my feet in to gently push throttle to maintain 50km/h
2021-06-16T13:55:40 < ventyl> slacking throttle pedal cable pushed throttle pedal idle position a few centimeres back, which meant that I didn't have to cringe my feet backwards so much all the time
2021-06-16T13:56:15 < PaulFertser> ventyl: that probably means your heel wasn't located at the right point.
2021-06-16T13:56:32 < PaulFertser> And the seat.
2021-06-16T13:57:03 < ventyl> that's highly probable as I am not conforming to typical human body ergonomy. my right leg is substantially shorter than left one
2021-06-16T13:58:06 < PaulFertser> Hm, but if you're comfortable pressing the clutch with your left leg then your right would be like a bit too far away from the pedals.
2021-06-16T13:59:42 < ventyl> it is not that simple topic as legs have multiple joints, so in the end it is complex system
2021-06-16T14:00:17 < ventyl> and certain cars have different ergonomy too, such as some cars don't have center axis of pedal console in axis with steering column
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2021-06-16T14:04:27 < PaulFertser> Yeah. But still my impression is that there's a primary right foot position that's directly in front of the brake pedal where you can push it straight and firm and then you fully release it and keep the heel on the mat at the place it ends up, and rotate your foot slightly outwards to reach for the throttle without really moving the heel.
2021-06-16T14:04:31 < qyx> Laurenceb: a rc model shop maybe? car tuning shop?
2021-06-16T14:05:13 < PaulFertser> If you know otherwise, please refer me to a reputable source.
2021-06-16T14:07:12 < ventyl> just as a guess, I would say, that my idle position for right foot will be somewhere in between brake and throttle pedal
2021-06-16T14:07:38 < ventyl> but this is really something I don't pay attention to after so many years
2021-06-16T14:07:40 < ventyl> it just works
2021-06-16T14:07:57 < PaulFertser> Bad habits might feel exactly like that too.
2021-06-16T14:08:11 < ventyl> ofc
2021-06-16T14:08:23 < PaulFertser> Same as driving with one hand pushed against the door or some such.
2021-06-16T14:09:11 < PaulFertser> (and the other resting near the gear switch lever)
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2021-06-16T14:10:11 < ventyl> most modern cars have doors arranged so that driving like this is extremely uncomfortable
2021-06-16T14:10:48 < ventyl> only doable position is with left arm on door's window rim, which is also absolutely the worst in terms of steering wheel action
2021-06-16T14:11:39 < englishman> i always thought the brake pedal was larger and higher up so it's easier to mash in an emergency. racecars have it the same size and distance.
2021-06-16T14:16:14 < englishman> brake height can be adjustable in racecars too. to adapt to the driver
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2021-06-16T14:17:06 < PaulFertser> englishman: but it's easy to mash up if your foot is already positioned right in front of it at all times, even while accelerating, that's my point.
2021-06-16T14:17:30 < englishman> usually your foot is on the gas, no?
2021-06-16T14:17:35 < englishman> not hovering over the brake
2021-06-16T14:17:35 < Streaker> mine is
2021-06-16T14:17:38 < PaulFertser> ventyl: yes, and I see plenty of people having their elbow on the window rim :/
2021-06-16T14:17:59 < Streaker> takes a fraction of a second to move over to the brake pedal.
2021-06-16T14:18:00 < PaulFertser> englishman: foot on the gas, but the heel is across the brake
2021-06-16T14:18:09 < englishman> i don't think that's very typical
2021-06-16T14:18:13 < PaulFertser> You're not supposed to move, you're supposed to rotate
2021-06-16T14:18:51 < PaulFertser> englishman: is there a reference I can read please? I'm pretty sure I've several different professional drivers recommend doing it only the way I describe
2021-06-16T14:18:51 < englishman> you can't really heel-toe in normal cars with the huge and raised brake
2021-06-16T14:18:51 < ventyl> even if I recall early days of turbocharged racecars, I think that they used to have heel in front of throttle and rotate it towards brake
2021-06-16T14:19:17 < ventyl> and then smashing brake with tip of heel and throttle with side of it
2021-06-16T14:19:21 < ventyl> in parallel
2021-06-16T14:19:56 < Streaker> they still do that. in racing it helps somehow if you pip the throttle between gears
2021-06-16T14:20:16 < englishman> yeah but even then you'd do that only in turns
2021-06-16T14:20:17 < ventyl> that was for completely different purpose
2021-06-16T14:20:19 < PaulFertser> Isn't it done with the heel? Blipping teh throttle when downshifting while you brake?
2021-06-16T14:20:23 < englishman> in straights your heel would be on the floor
2021-06-16T14:21:15 < ventyl> PaulFertser: nope, this was back in days where there was no automatic turbo speed maintaining device, so you had to push throttle even during braking to maintain turbo speed and avoid turbolag
2021-06-16T14:21:30 < ventyl> nowadays, there's ALS which does this job for you
2021-06-16T14:22:34 < PaulFertser> ventyl: I see, so that makes it special, one needed to push the throttle all the time, and brake and also clutch for downshifting.
2021-06-16T14:23:47 < PaulFertser> ventyl: probably would make sense to have some manual switch to force a really high idle?
2021-06-16T14:27:05 < englishman> the 1-pedal driving mode in electric cars is really nice
2021-06-16T14:27:17 < englishman> you touch the brake even less than in a manual car
2021-06-16T14:27:47 < ventyl> i barely touch brake pedal, unless stopping completely and/or sudden need to slow down
2021-06-16T14:28:20 < englishman> yeah basically that, except you don't even need it when fully stopped
2021-06-16T14:28:38 < englishman> the engine brake works right down to 0, then the brakes are applied to hold and the motor is released
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2021-06-16T14:36:18 < karlp> twist-n-go for "proper" cars :)
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2021-06-16T15:19:20 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: in my car to do heel-toe I have to twist myself in a diagonal sitting position because of the raised brake
2021-06-16T15:20:01 < BrainDamage> leaning against the left window
2021-06-16T15:20:31 < BrainDamage> the position lets me have my heel raised naturally, without having to consciously place it
2021-06-16T15:20:57 < BrainDamage> i don't do heel toe to keep the turbo engaged, I just do to rev match
2021-06-16T15:21:57 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: braking with heal, and throttling with toe?
2021-06-16T15:22:08 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-06-16T15:23:10 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: so what is the reason to have the raised brake pedal in your opinion, why do car manufactures do it?
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2021-06-16T15:23:24 < BrainDamage> I never reflected on it
2021-06-16T15:24:20 < PaulFertser> It feels like unnatural and counter-productive, especially given different style race cars consistently _not_ doing that.
2021-06-16T15:25:02 < BrainDamage> is it just raised, or does it also have more dynamic range?
2021-06-16T15:25:16 < BrainDamage> the latter at least would be a valid reasoning
2021-06-16T15:25:35 < PaulFertser> I blip the throttle on my motorbike usually, the downshifts are a bit smoother that way, especially when I'm not careful releasing the clutch.
2021-06-16T15:27:02 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: I have an impression regular cars have just wrong placement for the throttle pedal, it's not that brake is raised but rather the throttle is sunk for whatever odd reason.
2021-06-16T15:28:53 < ventyl> on my motorbike, if not under full load, it is more comfortable to shift without clutch at all
2021-06-16T15:29:00 < ventyl> both upshift and downshift
2021-06-16T15:29:19 < PaulFertser> ventyl: no quickshifter? how do you downshift usually?
2021-06-16T15:30:12 < ventyl> well, if I consider the fact, that typical race car gearbox is almost identical to standard motorcycle gearbox, I can't understand the purpose of quickshifter
2021-06-16T15:31:22 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe_shifting suggests and I think I saw some videos to confirm it that current standard technique is to operate the brake with the toe and apply throttle with the heel/right side of the foot..
2021-06-16T15:33:02 < PaulFertser> ventyl: for regular clutchless motorbike upshift you drop RPMs for a split second while pulling on the lever with your left foot, right? Quickshifter does it for you in a more controlled manner, you just pull the lever, it detects the movement, tells ECU to skip few cycles, done.
2021-06-16T15:33:53 < ventyl> PaulFertser: right, that's clutchless upshift
2021-06-16T15:34:13 < ventyl> hah, my previous motorbike had mechanical quickshifter :)
2021-06-16T15:34:15 < PaulFertser> So with quickshifter it's more stable as you do not jerk the throttle manually.
2021-06-16T15:34:39 < ventyl> it worked a bit differently, but allowed for smoother clutchless shifting
2021-06-16T15:35:09 < PaulFertser> Old bikes had mechanically operated clutch for quickshifting :)
2021-06-16T15:35:21 < ventyl> shifter lever had waaaay more travel than on todays motorbikes and if pushed to the limit, it disengaged clutch a bit
2021-06-16T15:35:42 < PaulFertser> So not really clutchless after all :)
2021-06-16T15:36:18 < PaulFertser> I'm more wondering how you consistently manage smooth clutchless downshifts.
2021-06-16T15:36:22 < ventyl> meh, I really need to buy a bunch of nucleos and create automated test suite
2021-06-16T15:40:19 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: indeed, but that's ncredibly hard to do with the raised brake
2021-06-16T15:40:40 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: that's why I'm surprised most cars are doing that :/
2021-06-16T15:40:41 < BrainDamage> your foot would remain in a consttantly raised position, bent backwards
2021-06-16T15:41:08 < englishman> true, racecar brakes also have much less travel
2021-06-16T15:41:13 < englishman> so they can be placed lower
2021-06-16T15:41:31 < PaulFertser> Why not just place the throttle higher?
2021-06-16T15:41:35 < Streaker> The side of the throttle nearest the door is at the same-ish level as the floor. I was told this is so that you can rest your foot on the throttle during long drives.
2021-06-16T15:42:25 < PaulFertser> Streaker: in the UK?
2021-06-16T15:42:49 < Streaker> In pre-cruise control cars. (I'm in India)
2021-06-16T15:43:09 < PaulFertser> So same insane deal :)
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2021-06-16T16:04:23 < karlp> ventyl: let me know how that goes, I've had that sort of thing in progress for years...
2021-06-16T16:05:41 < zyp> 13:28:38 < englishman> the engine brake works right down to 0, then the brakes are applied to hold and the motor is released
2021-06-16T16:05:46 < zyp> that depends on the car
2021-06-16T16:06:59 < zyp> egolf emulates a traditional automatic transmission that creeps when you don't give it any inputs
2021-06-16T16:07:57 < zyp> unless you've got it in auto-hold mode, where it keeps applying brakes when you let go of the brake pedal while the car is standing still
2021-06-16T16:08:48 < zyp> the polestar 2 that I test drove had touchpanel options for creep or engine brake to 0 modes
2021-06-16T16:09:43 < zyp> personally I prefer the egolf way over having to dick around on the touchpanel to pick modes, but I'm biased by being used to it
2021-06-16T16:10:40 < englishman> yeah there are a few different modes, even on the tesla you can choose between creep mode or 1-pedal mode
2021-06-16T16:11:15 < englishman> the early leaf didn't have 1-pedal mode, the engine braking was not strong enough
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2021-06-16T17:18:15 < ventyl> PaulFertser: solely for sake of science, I have paid attention to where I lay right foot. It is aligned with right edge of brake pedal for the most of time. but I can't guarantee, that I positioned it there voluntarily, or because we were talking about it
2021-06-16T17:18:36 < PaulFertser> ventyl: thank you :)
2021-06-16T17:20:09 < ventyl> just for reference, throttle pedal is positioned barely 2 centimeters below plane tangential to brake pedal surface
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2021-06-16T18:30:43 < karlp> isn't it beautiful: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/e2E9S
2021-06-16T18:35:41 < ventyl> smells like '80s
2021-06-16T18:35:47 < ventyl> isn't there changelog on top of that file?
2021-06-16T18:35:52 < karlp> hah
2021-06-16T18:36:43 < karlp> val =val>>6;//*4
2021-06-16T18:36:49 < karlp> like, wat are you doing?!
2021-06-16T18:37:29 < ventyl> there's a bunch of dudes out there, who are used to write hand optimized assembly regardless of programming language actually used in the project
2021-06-16T18:37:35 < ventyl> they know better than the compiler
2021-06-16T18:37:43 < karlp> no, this is intern shit
2021-06-16T18:38:05 < karlp> 20 lines of duplicate code copied for each phase, with one letter changed for a phase definition named register.
2021-06-16T18:38:09 < karlp> it's wild
2021-06-16T18:38:29 < ventyl> have you just unfreezed your intern freshly, while being in stasis for 25 years?
2021-06-16T18:38:30 < karlp> I just can'twork out why the same inputs are giving me ~4x the reading on one chip vs the other.
2021-06-16T18:38:46 < karlp> it's not my intern, it's someone at atmel in probably the late 90s
2021-06-16T18:39:02 < karlp> hrm, maybe even later, not sure if this had a predecessor chip
2021-06-16T18:40:05 < ventyl> do I want to solder ethernet wires or do I want to write software for ESP8266?
2021-06-16T18:40:21 < BrainDamage> no
2021-06-16T18:40:41 < karlp> hrm, no, looks like I should probably blame an IDT employee
2021-06-16T18:42:13 < BrainDamage> IDioT
2021-06-16T18:44:01 < karlp> yeah, just found an early prelim IDT datasheet, they're too blame.
2021-06-16T18:44:05 < karlp> doesn't help though.
2021-06-16T18:44:13 < karlp> still no information relevent to myissue :)
2021-06-16T18:51:05 < Laurenceb_> there are many more adults than children
2021-06-16T18:51:21 < Laurenceb_> If pedophiles are legally allowed to have sex with as many children as they want, there won't be enough children for everyone else to have sex with.
2021-06-16T18:51:42 < Laurenceb_> This would cause a pedocel insurrection. Its why pedos ar ebad
2021-06-16T18:52:43 < ventyl> this only holds if you assume, that every adult is a pedophile
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2021-06-16T18:53:12 < Laurenceb_> >assuming logic applies to greentext trollposts
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2021-06-16T19:46:14 < karlp> fek, got so used to 0 being "true" in lua just got bitten by it in python.
2021-06-16T19:49:08 < t4nk_freenode> if you use python, you deserve nothing less :b
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2021-06-16T19:53:03 < karlp> normally people say it's my fault for liking lua's way of doing it, but clearly we can see everyone's biases ;)
2021-06-16T19:53:19 < karlp> it's ok, -1 for infinite instead of 0 now...
2021-06-16T19:56:07 < ventyl> meh, I decided to both write lua for esp8266 *and* solder ethernet
2021-06-16T19:57:14 < zyp> 0 is true? wat
2021-06-16T19:57:23 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-06-16T19:57:28 < zyp> I mean, bash also does that, but still
2021-06-16T19:58:08 < t4nk_freenode> success!
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2021-06-16T19:58:33 < BrainDamage> in lua anything that's not nil or false is true
2021-06-16T19:58:45 < BrainDamage> so 0, being allocated memory and not being false, it's true
2021-06-16T19:58:58 < karlp> which is "good" when you want 0 to be "true" because it's valid, set to zero...
2021-06-16T19:59:05 < karlp> as opposed to unset.
2021-06-16T20:00:09 < zyp> in python you use None for stuff like that
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2021-06-16T20:00:25 < karlp> yeah, I dicked around with is not None and shit, but it just got messier.
2021-06-16T20:00:33 < karlp> nvm, fixed now, just had to rerember that.
2021-06-16T20:00:46 < t4nk_freenode> soldering ethernet becomes easier too btw
2021-06-16T20:02:38 < ventyl> well, fuck
2021-06-16T20:20:25 < qyx> if shit is not None:
2021-06-16T20:23:56 < Thorn_> if None is not shit:
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2021-06-16T20:37:59 < englishman> Laurenceb_: might appreciate this https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-vancouver-school-board-phases-out-honours-programs-in-high-schools/
2021-06-16T20:38:15 < englishman> in which children seeking more stimulation from school are called racist
2021-06-16T20:44:30 < karlp> fecking thing takes ~10 seconds to stabilise after changing the calibration values.
2021-06-16T20:44:40 < karlp> stupid thing. no wonder this shit was behaving wonkily
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2021-06-16T21:53:23 < jadew> karlp, how do you start a sketch in freecad? I swear I spent time learning how to use it last year, but the interface is super confusing
2021-06-16T21:53:36 < jadew> which mode do I use to draw the base of a cylinder?
2021-06-16T21:54:13 < jadew> ah sketcher
2021-06-16T21:56:02 < jadew> the order in which the modes are listed makes no sense
2021-06-16T21:56:15 < ventyl> interface is roughly fusion360 + a bunch of clicks here and there
2021-06-16T21:56:26 < ventyl> *bunch := sometimes, a lot
2021-06-16T21:56:26 < jadew> doesn't feel like it
2021-06-16T21:56:35 < ventyl> do you have 0.16?
2021-06-16T21:56:45 < jadew> .2
2021-06-16T21:58:57 < jadew> hmm, apparently you have to create a body before you create the sketch
2021-06-16T21:59:04 < jadew> but it allows you to create the sketch first
2021-06-16T21:59:43 < ventyl> you can have "master sketch"
2021-06-16T22:00:02 < ventyl> and then derive objects out of it. it is kind of workaround for naming instability
2021-06-16T22:00:51 < jadew> I managed to create cylinder
2021-06-16T22:00:57 < jadew> I see it still has the bug :/
2021-06-16T22:02:04 < jadew> it adds a stupid edge to the cylinder and that causes problems
2021-06-16T22:02:22 < jadew> when I asked about it they blamed it on the underlying engine and said won't fix
2021-06-16T22:02:23 < ventyl> edge connecting top and bottom ring?
2021-06-16T22:02:28 < jadew> yeah
2021-06-16T22:02:48 < ventyl> right, that's probably BREP engine stuff
2021-06-16T22:03:20 < jadew> how do I delete a feature?
2021-06-16T22:03:28 < jadew> is there something like the history bar in fusion?
2021-06-16T22:03:42 < jadew> ah, just delete
2021-06-16T22:03:44 < ventyl> object tree lists features in subtree of the object
2021-06-16T22:04:02 < ventyl> just delete it and if you are lucky, you'll see object state before that feature was created
2021-06-16T22:04:05 < jadew> yeah, but the sketch appears as a child, however if you delete the feature the sketch remains
2021-06-16T22:04:17 < jadew> this is counterintuitive stuff
2021-06-16T22:04:57 < ventyl> well, sketch is an object, extrude is a feature
2021-06-16T22:05:16 < ventyl> if you delete extrude, sketch will remain, because sketch can exist without extrude, other way around it doesn't work
2021-06-16T22:05:25 < ventyl> btw the behavior would be the same in fusion
2021-06-16T22:05:29 < jadew> yeah, but the way it's arranged in the tree makes it unobvious what my options are
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2021-06-16T22:05:41 < jadew> I have no problem with the sketch remaining
2021-06-16T22:05:50 < jadew> my problem is that it makes the sketch a child of the feature
2021-06-16T22:05:57 < ventyl> well, neither timeline, nor tree view are optimal in this case
2021-06-16T22:06:01 < jadew> yet, if you delete the feature (the parent node), the sketch remains
2021-06-16T22:06:04 < ventyl> we had a lot of problems with timeline display in fusion
2021-06-16T22:06:37 < jadew> they could have just kept the sketch outside of the feature
2021-06-16T22:06:49 < jadew> or made the feature a child of the sketch
2021-06-16T22:06:58 < jadew> easy to parse by a sane mind
2021-06-16T22:08:20 < jadew> I know the kind of programmers that would do this and when I see stuff like that I can't help by imagine that the whole thing is their work, which is frightening
2021-06-16T22:08:37 < jadew> *but
2021-06-16T22:10:06 < ventyl> i would rather see a bit different display, probably something closer to timeline
2021-06-16T22:10:31 < jadew> I don't mind the tree, I just want it to make sense
2021-06-16T22:10:44 < ventyl> or maybe another treeview listing features on body with main treeview showing only objects (components, bodies, sketches, etc.)
2021-06-16T22:52:06 < englishman> another oopsie from pro assembly house - pth LEDs soldered backwards
2021-06-16T22:52:33 < englishman> just one batch. previous batches OK
2021-06-16T22:53:54 < machinehum> classic
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2021-06-16T23:16:13 < ventyl> englishman: i have a bunch of THT LEDs which have lead lenght swapped
2021-06-16T23:16:23 < ventyl> one which should be shorter is longer and vice versa
2021-06-16T23:17:07 < englishman> fuck that.
2021-06-16T23:46:52 < Laurenceb_> fucking Andrew Neil, clearly he is the next Hortler
2021-06-16T23:47:54 < Laurenceb_> BBC head of politics is just the sort of person who would be a nazi, it all makes sense now
--- Day changed Thu Jun 17 2021
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2021-06-17T00:55:50 < kakium69> helloium
2021-06-17T01:11:53 < _unreal_> ?
2021-06-17T01:11:53 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-17T01:13:43 < PaulFertser> ?xnand
2021-06-17T01:13:43 < xnand> xnand is annoying bot
2021-06-17T01:13:56 < PaulFertser> ?kakium69=moped rider
2021-06-17T01:13:57 < xnand> Done
2021-06-17T01:14:08 < PaulFertser> ?kakium69
2021-06-17T01:14:08 < xnand> kakium69 is moped rider
2021-06-17T01:14:29 < kakium69> moped sold
2021-06-17T01:14:51 < PaulFertser> the hell?
2021-06-17T01:15:03 < PaulFertser> Got something cooler?
2021-06-17T01:15:34 < PaulFertser> ?kakium69-forget
2021-06-17T01:15:34 < xnand> I'm afraid I can't do that, PaulFertser
2021-06-17T01:15:46 < kakium69> no
2021-06-17T01:15:52 < PaulFertser> See, once moped rider forever moped rider
2021-06-17T01:15:53 < kakium69> just money
2021-06-17T01:15:58 < kakium69> true
2021-06-17T01:16:15 < PaulFertser> You couldn't have gotten much for it, how that makes any sense?
2021-06-17T01:18:36 < BrainDamage> better than paying someone to take it
2021-06-17T01:19:19 < kakium69> indeed
2021-06-17T01:19:41 < kakium69> it was in need of proper service
2021-06-17T01:19:58 < PaulFertser> kakium69: I'm getting https://aliexpress.com/item/4000256222847.html worth the buck?
2021-06-17T01:20:32 < kakium69> thai moped gloves
2021-06-17T01:20:35 < kakium69> idk
2021-06-17T01:20:47 < PaulFertser> I only ever serviced mine myself
2021-06-17T01:20:53 < PaulFertser> Not sure if proper or not :/
2021-06-17T01:21:11 < kakium69> proper as in new suspension seals and oils
2021-06-17T01:21:16 < kakium69> new back tyre
2021-06-17T01:21:22 < kakium69> chains and sprockets
2021-06-17T01:21:34 < PaulFertser> I changed fork oil this winter
2021-06-17T01:21:53 < PaulFertser> Sprockets will probably needed soon, but they're cheap.
2021-06-17T01:21:56 < kakium69> new muffler
2021-06-17T01:22:01 < kakium69> new piston seals
2021-06-17T01:23:09 < englishman> what kind of moped, paul
2021-06-17T01:23:10 < PaulFertser> I changed the piston seal in front brake, yes.
2021-06-17T01:23:28 < PaulFertser> englishman: ybr-125, yamaha branded, manufactured by our China friends
2021-06-17T01:23:50 < englishman> oh, big one
2021-06-17T01:24:09 < PaulFertser> I bought with when it had about 16000 km on it, and added about 28k of my own.
2021-06-17T01:24:39 < englishman> isn't that more of a small motorcycle than a moped
2021-06-17T01:24:53 < PaulFertser> It's a motor bike, at least A1 required, sure.
2021-06-17T01:25:04 < PaulFertser> kakium69's wasn't a real moped either
2021-06-17T01:25:30 < qyx> this is a moped http://ipravda.sk/res/2009/11/17/thumbs/babetta-clanokW.jpg
2021-06-17T01:25:45 < kakium69> I'm pondering of bying gsx-r 1000
2021-06-17T01:26:01 < kakium69> the best model year is still 6000eur
2021-06-17T01:26:05 < englishman> kaks I like the look of that new Harley adventure bike
2021-06-17T01:26:24 < englishman> surprisingly, Harley made a desirable product
2021-06-17T01:26:37 < PaulFertser> Talking about the chain, my current and the next one were locally produced for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muravey_(scooter)
2021-06-17T01:26:57 < kakium69> englishman: are those already out there?
2021-06-17T01:27:15 < englishman> yes even the local dealship here has 2 demos
2021-06-17T01:27:26 < PaulFertser> kakium69: what do you need all that plastic for?
2021-06-17T01:27:54 < kakium69> for looks
2021-06-17T01:28:02 < PaulFertser> What about Aprilia Shiver, how much is it in your country kakium69 ?
2021-06-17T01:28:40 < BrainDamage> harley stuff looks like giant bulky pieces of metal
2021-06-17T01:29:01 < BrainDamage> the inconvenience of a large vehicle and the dangers of a motorbike
2021-06-17T01:29:05 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: that's why seeing an adventure bike from them is surprising
2021-06-17T01:30:05 < englishman> Harleys are fun to drive I admit
2021-06-17T01:30:11 < PaulFertser> It's not a Road King facelifted :)
2021-06-17T01:30:23 < englishman> but also are absolute pieces of shit
2021-06-17T01:31:20 < kakium69> PaulFertser: neverhörd
2021-06-17T01:32:12 < kakium69> I have driven one harley and it was not fun
2021-06-17T01:32:48 < kakium69> it was like driving "rock sled"
2021-06-17T01:33:51 < kakium69> it was late 60's softail
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2021-06-17T01:36:12 < kakium69> or early 70's
2021-06-17T01:36:28 < kakium69> I see it's the same bike all way to 2000's
2021-06-17T01:37:42 < kakium69> maybe if there is flat road and you ride slow it's relaxing
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2021-06-17T01:43:42 < PaulFertser> kakium69: if you want it for the looks, s1000rr ;)
2021-06-17T01:43:52 < kakium69> yes
2021-06-17T01:44:34 < kakium69> I like that
2021-06-17T01:44:37 < kakium69> but
2021-06-17T01:44:51 < kakium69> it's like 15kiloeuros
2021-06-17T01:45:09 < kakium69> also it makes nice sound
2021-06-17T01:45:23 < ventyl> buy the one I have. you will shrink you gas expense
2021-06-17T01:45:30 < ventyl> it will be dismantled all the time
2021-06-17T01:46:03 < kakium69> yes
2021-06-17T01:46:28 < ventyl> gsf400
2021-06-17T01:46:31 < kakium69> you can also pause insurance
2021-06-17T01:46:39 < ventyl> youngest one is 20+ years old
2021-06-17T01:46:48 < kakium69> yeah
2021-06-17T01:46:53 < ventyl> good ones are 30 years old
2021-06-17T01:47:01 < kakium69> no more 20year olds
2021-06-17T01:48:44 < Laurenceb_> https://www.rapidonline.com/sulphuric-acid-98-lr-h2so4-1l-52-7571
2021-06-17T01:48:51 < Laurenceb_> keeekkk that disclaimer
2021-06-17T01:48:57 < machinehum> I stabbed my hand with my pokey fluke dmm tips which I was using to measure some voltages on the parts that were soldered down with leaded solder paste
2021-06-17T01:49:00 < Laurenceb_> >buy one get one free swatting
2021-06-17T01:49:02 < machinehum> How long do I have?
2021-06-17T01:50:10 < kakium69> yes
2021-06-17T01:51:19 < kakium69> you know machinehum.. some people have bullet fragments inside them and they live with them just fine
2021-06-17T01:51:35 < BrainDamage> approx 70 years, give or take
2021-06-17T01:53:07 < kakium69> just fine meaning the bullet fragments doesn't poison them.. but might otherwise be painful etc.
2021-06-17T01:53:34 < BrainDamage> metallic lead isn't very bioavailable
2021-06-17T01:53:48 < kakium69> I had piece of solder in my face for years
2021-06-17T01:53:52 < BrainDamage> if you dissolve lead in wine instead ...
2021-06-17T01:53:55 < kakium69> too hot iron
2021-06-17T02:16:27 < bitmask> haha this is awesome!
2021-06-17T02:16:28 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4865478
2021-06-17T02:16:36 < bitmask> im gonna print it
2021-06-17T02:18:09 < kakium69> nice
2021-06-17T02:25:55 < jadew> cute
2021-06-17T03:17:03 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit []
2021-06-17T03:55:18 < jadew> I'm considering alibre design instead of fusion
2021-06-17T04:02:40 < jadew> fusion is still nicer and this one costs what fusion costs in 2 years...
2021-06-17T04:02:55 < jadew> man...
2021-06-17T04:05:10 < jadew> some things are working, other aren't
2021-06-17T04:05:25 < jadew> I can't get spline editing to work
2021-06-17T04:05:32 < jadew> threads are weird
2021-06-17T04:06:16 < jadew> offsets are not generating dependent figures
2021-06-17T04:06:34 < jadew> (you have to constrain them again after the offset is made)
2021-06-17T04:07:17 < jadew> you can't extrude specific faces from a sketch containing multiple ones
2021-06-17T04:07:23 < jadew> at least not from what I'm seeing
2021-06-17T04:08:18 < jadew> but, I think that testing this gave me a better understanding of freecad
2021-06-17T04:08:23 < jadew> I'll give that one another try now
2021-06-17T04:16:03 < jadew> yeah, fusion doesn't seem to have the basics down yet
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2021-06-17T04:35:40 < emeb_mac> So, is this the real ##stm32 now?
2021-06-17T04:48:38 < englishman> welcome
2021-06-17T04:49:58 < emeb_mac> I joined up a while back when some of the other chls jumped over early, but didn't think ##stm32 would ever convert. :P
2021-06-17T04:59:24 < jadew> I think everyone recognized that freenode died and all the fame it has is going to fade really fast
2021-06-17T04:59:41 < jadew> because most people will now say join us on libera, not on freenode
2021-06-17T04:59:54 < jadew> so freenode will stop getting new blood
2021-06-17T05:00:23 < jadew> I just read what I said earlier. I meant freecad doesn't have the basics down
2021-06-17T05:11:04 < englishman> emeb_mac: the split killed all the chans i idled in with old chat pals, so there was no reason to stick around.
2021-06-17T05:12:12 < englishman> https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/
2021-06-17T05:15:11 < emeb_mac> englishman: yeah - same here. this was the only chan I kept on freenode, so it's nice that they're all over here now.
2021-06-17T05:17:10 -!- Laurenceb_ [~Laurence@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-06-17T05:17:18 < jadew> same here
2021-06-17T05:17:44 < emeb_mac> I did re-register over there just to keep control of my nicks, but otherwise I've got no reason to be there.
2021-06-17T05:17:57 < jadew> oh right, I forgot you have to do that
2021-06-17T05:18:46 -!- con3_ [~con3@41.71.25.219] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T05:18:51  * emeb_mac quickly squats on jadew @ freenode.org
2021-06-17T05:19:07 < jadew> already registered it :P
2021-06-17T05:19:14 < emeb_mac> :)
2021-06-17T05:19:35 < jadew> thought crossed my mind, so I was quick
2021-06-17T05:19:49 < jadew> hope I remember the password
2021-06-17T05:19:57 < englishman> anyone who cared about services had left, i figured
2021-06-17T05:20:22 -!- con3__ [~con3@41.71.25.219] has joined ##stm32
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2021-06-17T05:20:45 < emeb_mac> I see there's still some ppl in ##stm32 over there, but there's no MOTD and no ops from here.
2021-06-17T05:23:18 < jadew> is there a command that shows you the lag you have?
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2021-06-17T14:54:28 < jadew> one big minus for albire against fusion is that it cannot create threads easily
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2021-06-17T15:27:44 < jadew> bitmask, did you make the fume extractor?
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2021-06-17T17:02:45 < t4nk_freenode>   fcol... I'm sat next to my 3d printer, and I can tell you it is nót the weather for it.
2021-06-17T17:02:47 < t4nk_freenode> not at all
2021-06-17T17:03:35 < t4nk_freenode> also, what a day to have to increase nozzle temp
2021-06-17T17:20:20 < srk> :d I've dialed bed down to 40° from typical 50 because it's too hot xD
2021-06-17T17:21:31 < t4nk_freenode> that's actually not a bad idea ;)
2021-06-17T17:21:49 < t4nk_freenode> my bed was at 60degrees stock, never changed it
2021-06-17T17:21:50 < BrainDamage> a few years ago it reached 42°C here, wouldn't even need that
2021-06-17T17:36:10 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has joined ##stm32
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2021-06-17T18:54:08 < bitmask> jadew nah not yet, other more iimportant things to do first, im in the process of upgrading a bunch of things so i need to print parts to mount everything
2021-06-17T18:54:42 < bitmask> i just got a new spring steel sheet with smooth PEI on it and pla sticks to it like crazy, i can probably drop my bed temp from 60 to 40 without any problems at all
2021-06-17T18:54:52 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-06-17T18:55:03 < bitmask> ive only been using textured powder coated pei which is only really good for petg
2021-06-17T18:55:20 < bitmask> also got a satin sheet which is supposedly good for both, havent tried it yet
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2021-06-17T19:09:11 < jadew> bitmask, the PEI I got with my printer is smooth and really sticky
2021-06-17T19:09:46 < jadew> I often have to put powder on it so I can remove parts
2021-06-17T19:10:34 < bitmask> mines sticky and then when it cools down i can pop em off
2021-06-17T19:11:17 < bitmask> just started a print, meant to try the new satin sheet, oh well guess i'll try it next print
2021-06-17T19:12:34 < srk> I'm using either clean glass or PVA glue
2021-06-17T19:14:09  * t4nk_freenode uses painters' tape
2021-06-17T19:14:49 < t4nk_freenode> just to protect my magnetic flap though.. would look horrible otherwise
2021-06-17T19:14:54 < bitmask> yea i used to use that garbage :P
2021-06-17T19:15:01 < t4nk_freenode> also got a glass plate but never used it
2021-06-17T19:15:08 < t4nk_freenode> it aint garbage, it's just fine
2021-06-17T19:15:13 < bitmask> i know but its not great
2021-06-17T19:15:28 < bitmask> i went from painters tape, to glass and now spring steel sheets
2021-06-17T19:15:35 < t4nk_freenode> you can leave it on for a long time if you're gentle, and if a print should stick... you just rip the tape off
2021-06-17T19:16:05 < t4nk_freenode> but that goes for the magnetic flap too of course
2021-06-17T19:22:45 < t4nk_freenode> well, it would be nicer if the tape were a bit wider.. bit of a drag to line up several strips of tape
2021-06-17T19:23:40 < t4nk_freenode> got two rolls of pla coming in tonight
2021-06-17T19:24:39 < t4nk_freenode> delivered within a day from ordering; I had to pinch myself
2021-06-17T19:28:09 < bitmask> what brand do you generally use
2021-06-17T19:28:18 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-06-17T19:29:06 < t4nk_freenode> well, I got a roll of 'geeetech' when I bought the printer, it lasted a really long time
2021-06-17T19:29:24 < t4nk_freenode> in fact I just put it back on with a little bit left to print some small things
2021-06-17T19:29:36 < t4nk_freenode> I liked that roll, neatly wound
2021-06-17T19:30:19 < bitmask> i got a roll of that for free from a promo they were running, wasnt bad, good for generic filament
2021-06-17T19:30:20 < t4nk_freenode> then I bought some amazon 'basicfil', 2 rolls. I've used up the black, 500gr, and I must say it was horrible
2021-06-17T19:31:07 < t4nk_freenode> the filament is 'fine' for what I use it for, but the worst of it was that it's wound really horriby
2021-06-17T19:31:30 < t4nk_freenode> keeps tangling
2021-06-17T19:31:41 < bitmask> havent tried that, pretty much all my filament is atomic though ive tried some others like hatchbox and zyltech
2021-06-17T19:31:48 < bitmask> zyltech is good for cheaper stuff
2021-06-17T19:31:54 < bitmask> atomic is good premium stuff
2021-06-17T19:32:05 < t4nk_freenode> today I'm getting another roll of basicfil, and I also ordered some 'TINMORRY'.... hope that's neatly wound
2021-06-17T19:32:38 < t4nk_freenode> I also got a roll of eryone petg, but I have yet to use petg
2021-06-17T19:32:43 -!- Ecco [~user@lfbn-idf1-1-725-214.w86-245.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T19:32:44 < bitmask> and i have some specialty stuff like a few rolls of polyalchemy elixir, and some matterhackers TPU and ASA
2021-06-17T19:32:55 -!- Ecco [~user@lfbn-idf1-1-725-214.w86-245.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left ##stm32 []
2021-06-17T19:33:04 < t4nk_freenode> my ender can't do that at the moment
2021-06-17T19:33:05 < bitmask> i mostly use PETG
2021-06-17T19:33:15 < t4nk_freenode> been thinking about upgrading
2021-06-17T19:33:18 < bitmask> havent tried abs/asa yet though
2021-06-17T19:33:29 < bitmask> petg is good for most things
2021-06-17T19:34:00 < t4nk_freenode> DIIRBELL!
2021-06-17T19:34:10 < bitmask> only reason i wanna try asa is for vapor smoothing
2021-06-17T19:36:36 < Steffanx> 1233d.nl brand petg is the best t4nk_freenode 
2021-06-17T19:41:13 < t4nk_freenode> that meant to read 'door-bell' of course ;) my rolls have arrived.
2021-06-17T19:49:34 < bitmask> nice
2021-06-17T19:49:41 < bitmask> get to printing!
2021-06-17T19:58:19 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I'm building this cnc, thought I had a bag of 10 limit switches, only got 5
2021-06-17T19:58:25 < t4nk_freenode> double y-axes
2021-06-17T19:58:54 < t4nk_freenode> got some other switches I can use, but I decided to print my own limit switches
2021-06-17T19:58:58 < t4nk_freenode> they're nice ;
2021-06-17T19:58:59 < t4nk_freenode> ;)
2021-06-17T20:11:23 < jpa-> put switch only at one end, and only for one of the Y axes, it will make your CNC experience more fun
2021-06-17T20:11:34 < t4nk_freenode> lol
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2021-06-17T20:37:47 < srk> double y-axis sucks hard due to alignment unless you can home each side separately
2021-06-17T20:44:55 -!- Ecco [~user@lfbn-idf1-1-725-214.w86-245.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T20:45:04 < Ecco> Heya :)
2021-06-17T20:45:27 < Ecco> I have a dumb question: I'm learning about an STM32 that has an SMPS
2021-06-17T20:45:45 < Ecco> My understanding is that the SMPS is a more efficient DC-DC converter than the (usual) LDO
2021-06-17T20:46:08 < Ecco> But now, I'm puzzled: the documentation essentially gives you 4 options: bypass, SMPS, SMPS+LDO, LDO
2021-06-17T20:46:27 < Ecco> bypass I assume makes sense if you have a better DC-DC alternative somewhere else on your board
2021-06-17T20:46:42 < Ecco> LDO makes sense if oyu don't want to add the circuitry (an inductor really) for the SMPS
2021-06-17T20:46:51 < Ecco> But I just can't figure out what's the point of SMPS+LDO
2021-06-17T20:49:26 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
2021-06-17T21:03:04 < specing> Ecco: maybe for RTC? A smps will probably burn more power at very very low power levels
2021-06-17T21:12:13 -!- krjst [~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T21:18:17 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state of javascript
2021-06-17T21:18:23 -!- Cracki [~Cracki@user/cracki] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T21:18:24 < Laurenceb_> anyone know how to make firefox run?
2021-06-17T21:18:28 < ventyl> abso-fucking-lutely
2021-06-17T21:18:38 < Laurenceb_> I'm seeing firefox go to 100% cpu for minutes at a time right now
2021-06-17T21:18:38 < ventyl> a clear example of infix
2021-06-17T21:18:53 < machinehum> furryfox?
2021-06-17T21:20:29 < Laurenceb_> maybe I'll try just disabling javascript
2021-06-17T21:21:45 < machinehum> Jabbascript?
2021-06-17T21:23:46 < Ecco> specing: But then why bother with the SMPS at all? Wouldn't keeping the RTC be a case for "LDO" instead of "LDO+SMPS"?
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2021-06-17T21:25:43 < specing> Ecco: the SMPS is there for when you are running the chip at 200 Mhz with all peripherals on and using its pins as power toggles
2021-06-17T21:26:00 < specing> Laurenceb_: Firefox has been at 100% cpu for years now
2021-06-17T21:26:16 < specing> Laurenceb_: yeah, pihole, noscript, ublock, ...
2021-06-17T21:26:29 < specing> Laurenceb_: auto tab discard
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2021-06-17T21:35:53 < Ecco> Well, I don't know
2021-06-17T21:36:08 < Ecco> apparently the SMPS also helps when in STOP mode
2021-06-17T21:36:17 < Ecco> (when you want to shut everything down but keep the RAM)
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2021-06-17T22:41:45 < Steffanx> Firefox on 100%. Time to use an OS with actual support for a gpu?
2021-06-17T22:45:22 < PaulFertser> "Many of you have reached out and let us know that within many large FOSS projects you were incredibly fearful of being canceled for sharing your views... Now you can share thoughts and views without fear of being canceled." from new Freenode announcement. Probably ##stm32 should have stayed ;)
2021-06-17T22:51:28 < Laurenceb_> lolwhat
2021-06-17T22:51:41 < Laurenceb_> isnt this the opposite of what happened tho?
2021-06-17T22:51:51 < Laurenceb_> >ur SJW <no ur SJW
2021-06-17T22:51:56 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state
2021-06-17T22:53:19 < t4nk_freenode> look, stop making a fool of yourself, I don't understand why you don't just believe them
2021-06-17T22:53:21 < t4nk_freenode> I do!
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2021-06-17T23:04:14 < englishman> from https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ there are 127 people on freenode
2021-06-17T23:05:08 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2021-06-17T23:05:12 < englishman> fellow nerds, when you think of a photodiode, do you think of positive current or negative current
2021-06-17T23:05:27 < englishman> ie which one is "standard" to you
2021-06-17T23:05:30 < englishman> forgetting about bias
2021-06-17T23:29:33 < BrainDamage> the photocurrent is a negattive one
2021-06-17T23:30:02 < BrainDamage> because I have in mind the normal I-V diagram of a diode
2021-06-17T23:36:10 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-159-221.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-17T23:38:28 < englishman> yes same
2021-06-17T23:39:09 < englishman> and cmos photodiodes are hooked up as such
2021-06-17T23:47:45 < Laurenceb_> the www is dead
2021-06-17T23:47:53 < Laurenceb_> cant even load ebay without javashit
2021-06-17T23:48:04 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@a94-132-168-30.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2021-06-17T23:49:05 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: some UK shops just ban all russians IP. Your web is deader than mine.
2021-06-17T23:51:41 < Laurenceb_> lolwow
2021-06-17T23:52:02 < Laurenceb_> maybe we should go to freenode to show our support for the only democracy in the middle east
2021-06-17T23:56:39 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb_: visiting https://www.scan.co.uk/ redirects to Cloudflare CAPTCHA atm. And https://www.evanscycles.com/ used to send me messages about their new offerings for years while ignoring my letters about their side being fully inaccessible to me.
--- Day changed Fri Jun 18 2021
2021-06-18T00:13:46 < englishman> are you boycotting captchas as well?
2021-06-18T00:14:02 < englishman> i decided i was done with them
2021-06-18T00:14:11 < englishman> and now refuse to use any company that endorses their use
2021-06-18T00:22:03 < PaulFertser> englishman: not really but just to see an item of a shop I won't go through it.
2021-06-18T00:22:20 < PaulFertser> OFTC uses google captcha for IRC users registration :(
2021-06-18T00:22:25 < englishman> that's quite egregious
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2021-06-18T00:47:20 < kakium69> hello ircium
2021-06-18T00:51:01 < karlp> love the kirby fume eztractor :)
2021-06-18T00:52:16 < akaWolf> PaulFertser: why do you need OFTC?
2021-06-18T00:53:06 < akaWolf> Laurenceb_: sounds like you dont like too much SJW
2021-06-18T00:57:04 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pShXAgcaIRg cat video of the day
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2021-06-18T01:00:42 < karlp> oftc is whwee orher chats were, and are for some people.
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2021-06-18T01:01:15 < kakium69> cat is heckin conserned
2021-06-18T01:01:28 < kakium69> owner is trapped inside security camera
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2021-06-18T01:23:27 < karlp> do any of you 3d nerds have an sla printer? or are you all on the fdm train?
2021-06-18T01:24:21 < englishman> we buy some pro sla printed shit that looks like milled plastic. but the 3d guy at work bought one and just makes messes with it
2021-06-18T01:28:10 < karlp> pro stuff is more sls right?
2021-06-18T01:28:39 < karlp> sla looks way less fuckery, as long as you admit uo front to buy a washing curing rig to go with it...
2021-06-18T01:28:54 < karlp> like i ever have any fucking time anyway
2021-06-18T01:29:12 < karlp> havent had any energy for private tech for months and months
2021-06-18T01:29:28 < karlp> work project is coming out well thiugh, so... yay?
2021-06-18T01:31:13 < qyx> where the hell are backup domain registers in the rm
2021-06-18T01:31:21 < karlp> rtc?
2021-06-18T01:31:38 < karlp> or pwr or syacfg, never rememvrr
2021-06-18T01:31:46 < karlp> who uses thise anyway?
2021-06-18T01:32:01 < karlp> i just use the firat word of ram for bootloadwr shit
2021-06-18T01:32:13 < karlp> actual battery projects? wat?
2021-06-18T01:32:39 < qyx> no, bootloader shit
2021-06-18T01:32:47 < qyx> but I don't want to mess with sram
2021-06-18T01:32:53 < qyx> meh, actuall yidk
2021-06-18T01:33:09 < qyx> I was about to throw some protobuf config into them
2021-06-18T01:33:25 < qyx> or a struct
2021-06-18T01:33:35 < karlp> why  so much?
2021-06-18T01:34:10 < qyx> yeah they are in the rtc section
2021-06-18T01:36:11 < qyx> 32 registers, 4 bytes each
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2021-06-18T01:56:04 < zyp> qyx, rtc or tamp
2021-06-18T01:56:22 < zyp> on g4 they are in tamp, I just used those the other day
2021-06-18T01:56:33 < qyx> I need to sleep a bit and think about it
2021-06-18T01:56:57 < zyp> I'm using them for my fancy dual bank bootloader solution
2021-06-18T01:57:12 < qyx> I want to save some keys inside
2021-06-18T01:57:21 < qyx> and to use tamper detection
2021-06-18T01:57:25 < qyx> to erase them
2021-06-18T01:57:55 < qyx> but it is very risky when a non-informed personnel tries to change a battery
2021-06-18T01:58:09 < qyx> because 1. they will be erased by tamp
2021-06-18T01:58:12 < zyp> one as an action register to force it to select a particular image (otherwise it defaults to newest) and one as a status register that keeps track of how many watchdog resets you've had
2021-06-18T01:58:18 < qyx> and if not, 2. they will be erased because no battery
2021-06-18T01:58:23 < zyp> (it does a fallback to the other image after three)
2021-06-18T01:58:39 < qyx> yes, I want the same
2021-06-18T01:58:56 < qyx> reflash request + last known working
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2021-06-18T02:00:17 < qyx> and also some kind of a bootloader forced watchdog to revert back if the newly loaded image is not "approved" OTA
2021-06-18T02:00:50 < qyx> so you push the new bsdiff when the application is running
2021-06-18T02:01:03 < qyx> instruct it to unpack with OTA
2021-06-18T02:01:07  * karlp wonders how many tamper icidents have been "protectwd" wirh tamper features and how many poor maintennace twchs just had to reflash shit....
2021-06-18T02:01:07 < qyx> configure the update
2021-06-18T02:01:20 < qyx> let the thing reflash itself
2021-06-18T02:01:43 < qyx> and push an approve message with OTA to mark the new one as good IF it is able to communicate and receive the msg
2021-06-18T02:01:48 < karlp> im betting, (because it suits my beliefs) that its heavily on the latter
2021-06-18T02:02:09 < qyx> heh
2021-06-18T02:02:25 < qyx> yeah thats the "think a bit" bit
2021-06-18T02:02:34 < karlp> hey, at least my biases are clear....
2021-06-18T02:03:47 < karlp> ive been having the bootloader read the reaet reason reg and increment shared ram counters
2021-06-18T02:04:01 < qyx> I am not actually wanting to prevent IP theft
2021-06-18T02:04:10 < karlp> whether the "app" bothers to use them is soneone elses problem
2021-06-18T02:04:24 < qyx> more like to check if the thing was transferred correctly and was not modified
2021-06-18T02:04:37 < qyx> this looks as the most probable attack vector
2021-06-18T02:04:39 < qyx> to me
2021-06-18T02:05:04 < qyx> I don't think anyone is going to climb a bridge stay cable to actually open the enclosure and read the memory over SVD
2021-06-18T02:05:07 < qyx> *SWD
2021-06-18T02:05:19 < karlp> yar, only thi g id approve tamp for was to set a bit for "support" heh, to be abke to say, nah cunt. youse been fuckin wid shit j
2021-06-18T02:17:26 < kakium69> is freenode channel ded?
2021-06-18T02:18:35 < kakium69> given how successful the migration has been I assume it is in pretty bad shape
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2021-06-18T04:51:22 < sauce> karlp: i have an elegoo mars
2021-06-18T05:24:28 < bitmask> hmm, anyone try those fcob led strips?
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2021-06-18T12:11:35 < karlp> sauce: and do you like it? 
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2021-06-18T12:38:35 < drzacek> hello there
2021-06-18T12:38:48 < drzacek> is there some guide on how to install the Expansions in stm32cubeide?
2021-06-18T12:59:00 < jadew> everyone can stop talking shit about BNC connectors now: http://188.25.73.249/stuff/BNC-SMA.png
2021-06-18T13:01:32 < jadew> keep in mind there's two BNC connectors in that measurement, one male, one female
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2021-06-18T13:35:56 < tct> aaah, home.
2021-06-18T13:36:00 < tct> feels good.
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2021-06-18T14:18:02 < Steffanx> Welcome tct
2021-06-18T14:21:24 < karlp> heh, researchgate is rejecting my compnay email as my company email...
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2021-06-18T14:55:48 < tct> hello
2021-06-18T15:12:42 < PaulFertser> Hey tct . Bought a Tesla Model S yet?
2021-06-18T15:16:00 < tct> PaulFertser, no, I don't do that.
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2021-06-18T15:54:12 < englishman> he's a model X kind of guy
2021-06-18T16:10:08 < BrainDamage> nah, I'm sure it's more of a cybertruck guy
2021-06-18T16:10:29 < BrainDamage> would match better his SUV too
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2021-06-18T16:48:49 < mawk> researchgate is a racist and discriminatory organisation karlp 
2021-06-18T16:48:52 < mawk> they banned my ip
2021-06-18T16:51:38 < BrainDamage> I like how it's discrimination only when it's done towards you
2021-06-18T16:52:12 < mawk> lol
2021-06-18T16:52:14 < mawk> of course
2021-06-18T16:52:22 < mawk> but I recognize all kind of discrimination BrainDamage 
2021-06-18T16:55:04 < mawk> I recognize the right for everyone to be discriminated against
2021-06-18T17:03:27 < ventyl> hm, how should I read the situation, that I am receiving IRQ, which is disabled?
2021-06-18T17:03:47 < mawk> which situation
2021-06-18T17:04:24 < ventyl> abort() inside ISR for IRQ, which is disabled, will cause program to stop in debugger
2021-06-18T17:04:52 < ventyl> it seems as if MCU simply ignored IRQ configuration
2021-06-18T17:05:31 < ventyl> time to check errata
2021-06-18T17:08:00 < karlp> well, they have already given me a few pubs I couldn't find elsewhere, even without being  a member.
2021-06-18T17:08:26 < karlp> but I pressed, "request paper from author" which is what I' dbeen trying to do anywya, and it asked me to sign up, so Idid, as a company researcher, with company email
2021-06-18T17:08:41 < karlp> but it somehow had some bullshit list of available companies in iceland that count as research or something
2021-06-18T17:08:59 < karlp> so when it said, "oh, give us your company email to by pass manual verification" it just doesn't recognise it.
2021-06-18T17:16:11 < ventyl> ok, so motherfuckers have swapped ISRs in vector table in datashit
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2021-06-18T18:23:21 < aandrew> ah we did migrate over here
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2021-06-18T18:42:34 < karlp> well, when they nukeed themselves and killed services and made people rejoin and reregister nicks, it was kinda "fuck you"
2021-06-18T18:42:51 < karlp> they could have just ridden he status quo, but that sort of harikiri is pretty hard to work with.
2021-06-18T18:53:33 < sauce> karlp: it's okay
2021-06-18T18:53:53 < sauce> the screen/membrane is pretty fragile, we've gone through a couple
2021-06-18T18:54:12 < sauce> there was an axis alignment issue that i think they fixed in the next hardware rev (i preordered)
2021-06-18T18:54:31 < sauce> software workflow is weird but functional
2021-06-18T18:55:34 < sauce> the process itself has some weird caveats/constraints, the requirement for vent holes etc
2021-06-18T18:55:55 < sauce> flat surfaces dont work super well so you have to tilt stuff at crazy angles
2021-06-18T18:56:35 < karlp> yeah, I was skimming something and it seemed that "best results, tilt things up, remember it's not fdm so you can use height differently" and I thought that was odd, 
2021-06-18T18:56:45 < karlp> it's still really slow isn't it?
2021-06-18T18:57:13 < karlp> I was _hoping_ that an sla printer might be more money up front, but less fuckery than it seems all the FDM printers are.
2021-06-18T18:57:50 < karlp> when you say screen/membrane, you mean the bit that moves up and lifts it out?
2021-06-18T18:59:29 < karlp> they're up to mars 3 now, ifyou have an origianl mars?
2021-06-18T19:06:08 < sauce> yeah im sure they've improved it lots
2021-06-18T19:07:15 < sauce> and no i mean the part that separates the lcd and the monomer juice
2021-06-18T19:08:56 < karlp> have you used FDM stuff as well? 
2021-06-18T19:09:21 < sauce> yes my company has a small farm
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2021-06-19T01:36:06 < kakium69> hello internetium
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2021-06-19T01:58:39 < kakium69> how is night innovation?
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2021-06-19T04:45:22 < Ecco> I am facing the exact same question as this dude
2021-06-19T04:45:23 < Ecco> https://community.st.com/s/question/0D53W00000beX3T/stm32h725ig-direct-smps-vs-smps-followed-by-ldo-for-the-vcore
2021-06-19T04:45:57 < Ecco> Why would you possibly want to chain SMPS+LDO when the SMPS alone can do the job just fine?
2021-06-19T04:47:58 < Ecco> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGbC-L739Zw
2021-06-19T04:48:12 < Ecco> This video says SMPS+LDO offers lower power consumption with low-noise Vcore
2021-06-19T04:48:35 < Ecco> I guess it makes sense, but what's the point? Why should I care? If direct-SMPS is an option, then I guess the noise is low enough?
2021-06-19T04:50:19 < Ecco> (also the voice of the guy in the video is… weird)
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2021-06-19T08:23:53 < jpa-> Ecco: for low power sleep, you'd want to disable the SMPS that takes 220µA idle current and use the LDO only; but in that case they would be in parallel
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2021-06-19T08:25:56 < jpa-> Ecco: another reason is if you need the 2.5V SMPS voltage for some other chips on the board
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2021-06-19T09:30:15 < qyx> huh the STM's SMPS uses 220 uA idle?
2021-06-19T09:30:47 < qyx> fukit then
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2021-06-19T16:48:49 < Ecco> jpa-: Interesting, thanks! I do have a question though: in STOP mode (so CPU stopped, RAM kept), apparently the SMPS is much more efficient, at 0.2mA
2021-06-19T16:48:59 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVuJl-U2ho0
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2021-06-19T16:51:03 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/0k5oKQG.png
2021-06-19T16:51:15 < Ecco> With LDO we're at 0.52 mA, vs 0.2 with SMPS
2021-06-19T16:52:14 < Ecco> Also, my question was not really about LDO vs SMPS (even though what you said is interesting)
2021-06-19T16:52:24 < Ecco> but about "SMPS" vs "SMPS+LDO", combined
2021-06-19T16:52:43 < Ecco> One option would indeed be "because you want to use 2.5V from SMPS somewhere else on the board"
2021-06-19T16:53:08 < Ecco> But ST also has a case where the SMPS only feeds the LDO
2021-06-19T16:54:53 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/9mLbvoP.png
2021-06-19T16:55:03 < Ecco> Case 1, 2,4 5 and 6 all make sense to me
2021-06-19T16:55:19 < Ecco> But I'm very confused by case 3, "SMPS supplies LDO, No external supply"
2021-06-19T16:56:16 < jpa-> it's not that rare for there to be possible configurations that are not worth using
2021-06-19T16:59:44 < jpa-> the datasheet does not seem to specify the SMPS frequency, but based on the small inductor size i'd expect it to be over 1 MHz, at which point most LDOs are not very effective at suppressing noise anyway
2021-06-19T17:04:54 < englishman> wellll. 40 dB is still 40 dB
2021-06-19T17:05:22 < jpa-> englishman: hmm, you found PSRR graph somewhere?
2021-06-19T17:05:39 < englishman> nono, i mean LDOs in general. it can be highly variable
2021-06-19T17:05:54 < jpa-> sure, some have 0dB and others can have 40dB
2021-06-19T17:06:20 < englishman> yes just saying it isn't a safe assumption
2021-06-19T17:06:42 < jpa-> i did say "most" :)
2021-06-19T17:07:20 < jpa-> usually if design has been done to get good PSRR at high frequencies, they do mention it.. i don't expect it to just magically happen with the LDO that ST has crammed into a otherwise digital process
2021-06-19T17:07:51 < englishman> especially one that they don't give the freq response for.
2021-06-19T17:09:44 < englishman> well if it's only supplying vcore who cares
2021-06-19T17:10:30 < jpa-> indeed
2021-06-19T17:11:21 < englishman> the smps is only 3.3v tolerant..?
2021-06-19T17:11:51 < jpa-> yeah, 3.6V max; you can't use it to supply the whole chip
2021-06-19T17:24:50 < Ecco> Ok, so according to you guys, SMPS + LDO is bullshit, essentially? :-D
2021-06-19T17:25:19 < Ecco> Also, I'm not sure I understand your last comment: the SMPS can only take 3.6V max in, but so would the LDO, right?
2021-06-19T17:26:06 < jpa-> sure
2021-06-19T17:26:47 < jpa-> SMPS + LDO when you don't need the SMPS output for other purposes is a weird configuration that is possible and works, but if you have no reason to use it, why would you use it?
2021-06-19T17:27:05 < Ecco> My question exactly :)
2021-06-19T17:27:19 < Ecco> I'm surprised ST mentions this specific use-case in their doc because it makes no sense to me whatsoever
2021-06-19T17:27:25 < jpa-> there are clear reasons to have SMPS on the chip, there are clear reasons to have LDO on the chip, so what would you want to be different? should the documentation say "hey, don't worry, you don't need to use this configuration"
2021-06-19T17:27:27 < Ecco> it's like a half-assed compromise
2021-06-19T17:28:00 < Ecco> well, SMPS+LDO makes total sense to me if you re-use the SMPS's output somewhere else on the chip
2021-06-19T17:28:51 < Ecco> well, yeah, I'd like the doc to say that configuration 3 makes no sense. They should actually just remove it from teh doc IMHO
2021-06-19T17:29:06 < Ecco> Or, if it does make sense (noise filtering?), then explain why :)
2021-06-19T17:29:53 < Ecco> I think that adding useless cases in the doc is very confusing.
2021-06-19T17:30:09 < jpa-> what sense does configuration 5 make to you?
2021-06-19T17:30:28 < Ecco> Config 5 : you use the chip's SMPS to power something outside of the MCU
2021-06-19T17:30:42 < Ecco> and you use an external regulator for the chip's vcore
2021-06-19T17:30:47 < jpa-> and then instead of using the internal LDO.. you use an external one? why?
2021-06-19T17:30:59 < Ecco> because the LDO is not very efficient?
2021-06-19T17:31:04 < Ecco> So, kind of like configuration 6
2021-06-19T17:31:21 < jpa-> external LDO is not more efficient than internal LDO
2021-06-19T17:31:30 < Ecco> but external regulator might not be an LDO?
2021-06-19T17:31:46 < Ecco> Maybe you have a weird solar panel that just happens to provide 1.8V? :-D
2021-06-19T17:32:01 < Ecco> I know this is kind of bullshit, but I understand the "bypass" option (so config 6)
2021-06-19T17:32:27 < Ecco> and I understand config 5 a config 6 + "oh, we needed an SMPS somewhere else and we happen to have one lying around in the MCU, might as well use it"
2021-06-19T17:32:32 < Ecco> But I get your point
2021-06-19T17:32:35 < Ecco> it's very… odd too
2021-06-19T17:32:57 < Ecco> I'm curious about your remark that the SMPS cannot be used to power the entier chip tho
2021-06-19T17:32:58 < jpa-> documentation just documents what can be done and works, it does not necessarily document why you'd want to do something
2021-06-19T17:33:05 < Ecco> yeah, you're right
2021-06-19T17:34:03 < jpa-> well, Vdd = 2.5V is allowed voltage for Vdd, but apparently you can't supply SMPS from 3.6V and get 2.5V from it out to chip Vdd
2021-06-19T17:34:48 < Ecco> oh, gotcha
2021-06-19T17:35:08 < Ecco> but that's kind of the same situation with the LDO, right?
2021-06-19T17:35:16 < Ecco> The LDO really is only for Vcore, right?
2021-06-19T17:35:35 < Ecco> You're supposed to provide the chip with something acceptable for Vdd anyway
2021-06-19T17:36:22 < jpa-> sure
2021-06-19T17:36:32 < Ecco> ok :)
2021-06-19T17:36:45 < Ecco> So I'm not sure I follow
2021-06-19T17:37:01 < jpa-> well, it is a configuration that *would* make sense, but is not possible
2021-06-19T17:37:22 < Ecco> I'm not sure I get it
2021-06-19T17:37:32 < Ecco> SMPS's max input is 3.6V 
2021-06-19T17:37:43 < jpa-> (i think mostly because of the low 1.36V startup voltage of the SMPS, which is probably so low because of the direct Vcore feed configuration)
2021-06-19T17:37:50 < Ecco> How about feeding 3.6V in the chip's VDD directly?
2021-06-19T17:38:06 < Ecco> Why would you want to run the chip at 2.5V anyway?
2021-06-19T17:38:07 < jpa-> if you run chip at 2.5V, it consumes much less energy
2021-06-19T17:38:24 < Ecco> ok, makes sense
2021-06-19T17:38:31 < Ecco> but isn't the bulk of the energy used in Vcore anyway?
2021-06-19T17:38:52 < Ecco> The vdd domain seems pretty limited
2021-06-19T17:39:32 < jpa-> i would say about half, based on the datasheet numbers
2021-06-19T17:39:44 < Ecco> oh, ok
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2021-06-19T19:40:32 < tct> any drone/FPV people in here? I received some flight controller based on an STM32F405 and it doesn't want to enter DFU mode.
2021-06-19T19:40:53 < tct> this is all the documentation I have: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WrHFXpbMGCUid6cFjpGZrQJQBhHBxpz1/view
2021-06-19T19:41:16 < tct> there's a boot button which the documentation also mentions. When I press it while plugging in, the regular serial port doesn't show up but neither deos the DFU device
2021-06-19T19:42:59 < srk> yes
2021-06-19T19:42:59 < PaulFertser> tct: so what do you get exactly in dmesg and lsusb in that mode?
2021-06-19T19:43:12 < tct> PaulFertser, windows10 atm.
2021-06-19T19:43:22 < srk> nvm :D
2021-06-19T19:43:23 < PaulFertser> tct: so what vid/pid do you get in that mode?
2021-06-19T19:44:17 < tct> PaulFertser, not sure. it doesn't even show the "STM Device in DFU Mode" in the device manager
2021-06-19T19:44:31 < srk> if it has betaflight or similar loaded, it can jump to bootloader from fw when it receives a command
2021-06-19T19:45:05 < tct> yeah it has betaflight 4.0.3 installed
2021-06-19T19:45:26 < srk> try "just" flashing it from betaflight-configurator 
2021-06-19T19:45:54 < srk> it could just work, it sends the command over serial and switches itself, no need to press buttons
2021-06-19T19:46:06 < PaulFertser> tct: everything is so opaque with windows :/
2021-06-19T19:46:09 < srk> what's the electronics/drone?
2021-06-19T19:47:52 < tct> srk, it's an "EMAX Mini Magnum 2 F4" stack
2021-06-19T19:48:08 < tct> srk, I tried flashing the new firmware via betaflight but it was stuck in the "reboot into bootloader mode" 
2021-06-19T19:48:29 < tct> srk, hence I wanted to manually get the DFU mode enabled but it doesn't show up on Windows like I am used to as the "STM Device in DFU mode"
2021-06-19T19:48:36 < tct> PaulFertser, I am aware.
2021-06-19T19:50:57 < PaulFertser> tct: even in windows you can select "devices by bus" or something like that in device manager and then you can go to the root hub and see if any device at all appears there instead of serial in that mode or not.
2021-06-19T19:50:59 < tct> srk, CLI #version:  Betaflight / OMNIBUSF4 (OBF4) 4.0.3 Jun  1 2019 / 11:42:27 (094cfc956) MSP API: 1.41
2021-06-19T19:58:54 < tct> I plugged the board with pressed boot button into an ubuntu machine and dmesg doesn't show any new output, PaulFertser 
2021-06-19T19:59:14 < tct> PaulFertser, lsusb doesn't show anything related to this device either
2021-06-19T19:59:16 < PaulFertser> tct: no new output at all would means the device is not pulling USB lines at all.
2021-06-19T19:59:35 < PaulFertser> tct: probably that button is reset and not boot0
2021-06-19T19:59:48 < PaulFertser> tct: can't you trace the board a bit to see where boot0 is routed to?
2021-06-19T19:59:49 < tct> when not pushing the boot button while plugging it in it shows up as a regular serial port and the betaflight configurator can talk to it
2021-06-19T20:00:06 < tct> PaulFertser, documentation clearly labels that button as the boot button
2021-06-19T20:00:16 < tct> I already did a continuity test on the button too
2021-06-19T20:00:44 < PaulFertser> tct: so what MCU pin is it connected to?
2021-06-19T20:01:05 < tct> PaulFertser, no idea, I don't have schematics, only this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WrHFXpbMGCUid6cFjpGZrQJQBhHBxpz1/view
2021-06-19T20:01:25 < jpa-> does the board have a crystal?
2021-06-19T20:01:26 < PaulFertser> tct: but you have eyes
2021-06-19T20:01:36 < tct> yeah, a black dense PCB too.
2021-06-19T20:01:51 < jpa-> you can just check pinout to see which is the boot0 pin and beep it out
2021-06-19T20:02:01 < tct> will do.
2021-06-19T20:02:59 < jpa-> but STM32F405 built-in DFU needs an external crystal and pretty much nothing else, so a crystal being missing could explain the problem
2021-06-19T20:03:18 < tct> crystal is on the board
2021-06-19T20:03:20 < jpa-> ok
2021-06-19T20:03:36 < tct> it was sent through an ultrasonic cleaner (with proper PCB cleaning agent) prior tho
2021-06-19T20:03:52 < jpa-> (considering usb works with firmware, it sounded likely; but HSI does work somewhat ok for crystalless even if not specified to do so)
2021-06-19T20:03:58 < tct> it works in "regular mode" (eg. the non DFU mode works)
2021-06-19T20:04:07 < tct> hmkay
2021-06-19T20:04:08 < tct> good info
2021-06-19T20:04:20 < tct> should I probe the crystal?
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2021-06-19T20:05:32 < srk> weird, the only board I've had to flash "manually" by using boot0 was old f1 based cc3d
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2021-06-19T20:06:27 < jpa-> tct: you can try, but regular scope probes usually stop crystal oscillating in any case
2021-06-19T20:06:53 < tct> jpa-, yep, that's what I remembered from "the old times" too
2021-06-19T20:09:11 < tct> PaulFertser, do you know betaflight?
2021-06-19T20:09:25 < srk> what's the current version btw?
2021-06-19T20:09:43 < tct> srk, 4.0.3 on the FC, configurator 10.7.0
2021-06-19T20:09:56 < srk> I mean released one
2021-06-19T20:10:11 < tct> 10.7.0
2021-06-19T20:10:22 < srk> (fw) .. been a while since I've updated anything
2021-06-19T20:10:33 < PaulFertser> tct: not really, but I have few commits to Baseflight
2021-06-19T20:10:33 < tct> srk, 4.2.9
2021-06-19T20:10:38 < jpa-> tct: maybe they have hooked PB2/BOOT1 to some GPIO and some device connected to it is pulling it high, then BOOT0 would cause ram boot instead of rom bootloader boot
2021-06-19T20:11:03 < tct> jpa-, will look into that! I disconnected anything that was attached to the board. These were all UART devices tho
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2021-06-19T20:11:41 < tct> srk, in betaflight, when I connect to it, it doesn't find the accelerometer/gyro (MPU6000). Might be related? I figured that maybe I have to enable that or something (first time messing with any betaflight/drone/fpv stuff) and wanted to update the fw first.
2021-06-19T20:13:05 < srk> at least gyro is required so that should work. unless you enable accelerometer you won't see 3d preview moving iirc
2021-06-19T20:13:39 < srk> would be weird if someone sent you a board where critical piece doesn't work
2021-06-19T20:13:57 < tct> I got it for free from a dude that doesn't use it anymore.
2021-06-19T20:14:19 < tct> according to his intel this worked the last time he used it, but that's also some time ago and the drone itself was in a pretty rough state.
2021-06-19T20:14:31 < tct> screws missing, poor soldering connections etc. He's a welder so... :p
2021-06-19T20:15:07 < srk> :D .. still, it wouldn't fly at all if mpu6k is dead
2021-06-19T20:17:17 < srk> loctite for screws is a good idea, must for motor mounts
2021-06-19T20:18:00 < srk> (btw we have #fpv, only two people so far tho)
2021-06-19T20:18:58 < srk> looks like expressLRS is now a real deal with custom hardware made for it by e.g. happymodel
2021-06-19T20:20:24 < tct> srk, I have some expressLRS hardware on it's way to me. I received the drone with a crossfire RX and managed to get a corresponding crossfire TX used for like 50 bucks (got the remote itself for free too)
2021-06-19T20:20:42 < tct> so currently only the FC is keeping me from getting this in the air as it would seem.
2021-06-19T20:20:52 < tct> I received four batteries and everything for free :D
2021-06-19T20:22:03 < srk> nice, 2.4ghz or 8/9mhz variant?
2021-06-19T20:22:10 < srk> 00
2021-06-19T20:25:32 < tct> srk, the ELRS hardware? 2.4ghz
2021-06-19T20:27:15 < srk> yep. going to switch to that as well. this one looks so nice https://www.banggood.com/0_44g-Happymodel-2_4G-ExpressLRS-EP2-Nano-High-Refresh-Rate-Ultra-small-Long-Range-RC-Receiver-for-RC-Drone-p-1835178.html?cur_warehouse=GWTR
2021-06-19T20:27:17 < tct> alright, now I got the device to show up as "STM32 Bootloader" in windows device manager. that's a step in the right direction
2021-06-19T20:27:30 < srk> :D O
2021-06-19T20:27:35 < tct> srk, I am a bit unsure about that nano antenna - I am not an RF person tho :pw
2021-06-19T20:28:15 < srk> I've booted a desktop so I can check gdocs at it looks like a boot button, who needs reset on fc anyway
2021-06-19T20:28:26 < srk> me neither but it looks awesome
2021-06-19T20:28:33 < PaulFertser> tct: what did you do?
2021-06-19T20:28:41 < tct> yeah, and it shows up as STM32 bootloader device on windows now so the button is definitely good.
2021-06-19T20:29:07 < tct> PaulFertser, microscope inspection. found some pieces of grass hidden behind some of the pins
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2021-06-19T20:29:19 < srk> fun
2021-06-19T20:29:29 < tct> the gyro/accel is still not seen by BF tho
2021-06-19T20:29:37 < srk> https://github.com/ExpressLRS/ExpressLRS#current-leaderboard (3km with ceramic chip antenna)
2021-06-19T20:29:38 < PaulFertser> tct: electricity conducting grass? Fancy :)
2021-06-19T20:32:32 < tct> PaulFertser, there was some other schmoo attached to it so... whatever.
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2021-06-19T21:06:03 < englishman> lol, fucking with china drone shit.
2021-06-19T21:06:12 < englishman> if it doesnt go into dfu tct, it's hopped
2021-06-19T21:06:17 < englishman> hooped
2021-06-19T21:21:40 < PaulFertser> Have you folks heard about shunt-less battery gauges? TI BQ27621-G1 would be an example. They talk a lot about using estimated current but how the hell are they estimating it based solely on the cell voltage, temperature and computations?
2021-06-19T21:24:34 < englishman> cool
2021-06-19T21:24:42 < englishman> they probably have a whitepaper on their mentioned algo
2021-06-19T21:25:00 < englishman> the chip probably requires a very precise model of the battery
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2021-06-19T21:27:06 < PaulFertser> But what would be the basic idea behind it?
2021-06-19T21:27:17 < englishman> section 2.1 of the reference manual, looks like
2021-06-19T21:29:01 < PaulFertser> "with the amount of charge passed" but it doesn't know the amount of charge either
2021-06-19T21:44:16 < BrainDamage> maybe they have a model of the load instead of the battery
2021-06-19T21:44:42 < BrainDamage> if you have the load perfectly characterized, you can know the current from the voltage
2021-06-19T21:46:01 < BrainDamage> or the load itself measures the current
2021-06-19T21:46:09 < BrainDamage> like eg in motor control
2021-06-19T21:50:28 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: yes, but apparently not in this case. They allow you to choose between "constant power" and "constant current" load models but no other parameters, and they claim they estimate the load well enough. I'm really puzzled.
2021-06-19T21:52:04 < BrainDamage> link?
2021-06-19T21:52:43 < BrainDamage> nvm, un-lazied myself
2021-06-19T21:55:00 < tct> englishman, I got it into DFU mode eventually.
2021-06-19T21:55:21 < tct> englishman, but yeah, from all the stacks I've seen (the ones I repaired for my friends) this one seems like the least "nicest" one.
2021-06-19T21:55:22 < englishman> cool
2021-06-19T21:55:34 < englishman> is the config soft still the chrome extension that cTn made like 10 years ago
2021-06-19T21:56:00 < tct> unfortunately the accl/gyro is still not detected
2021-06-19T21:56:08 < tct> I reflowed the MPU6k pins but still no luck
2021-06-19T21:56:11 < englishman> that sux, could be a config thing
2021-06-19T21:56:12 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: one thing that I can think of, is that if the load does a burst of current pull the voltage will be a consequence of  the RC parasitics, so you can estimate ESR from there
2021-06-19T21:56:23 < tct> englishman, any pointers?
2021-06-19T21:56:33 < englishman> not really all that aids changed significantly since dongs wrote it.
2021-06-19T21:56:45 < qyx> PaulFertser: current mirror maybe?
2021-06-19T21:57:14 < englishman> looks like there is a 2nd and 3rd version of that board so make sure you are using the right one?
2021-06-19T21:57:16 < qyx> at least thats what power switches use to measure the current
2021-06-19T21:57:22 < englishman> surprising to see an actual mcu6k used
2021-06-19T21:57:25 < BrainDamage> current mirror requires highly matched transistors, one of which the current flows through
2021-06-19T21:57:28 < qyx> I mean those without sensing resistors
2021-06-19T21:57:55 < BrainDamage> so the shunt is still there, it's just another transistor
2021-06-19T21:58:03 < qyx> yeah
2021-06-19T21:58:23 < BrainDamage> can also use hall sensor at that pointt
2021-06-19T21:58:28 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: if you know the RC parasitics
2021-06-19T21:58:36 < PaulFertser> But in this case it doesn't look like this
2021-06-19T21:58:41 < BrainDamage> the C you can know
2021-06-19T21:58:50 < BrainDamage> the R you continously estimate it
2021-06-19T21:59:17 < BrainDamage> every time there's an impulsive load there'll be a knee in the voltage response
2021-06-19T21:59:25 < BrainDamage> that's from resistive component
2021-06-19T21:59:33 < BrainDamage> that's also how you measure ESR diy
2021-06-19T22:00:32 < BrainDamage> then you do successive approximations, estimate ESR, from ESR and estimated load you guess the battery state, etc
2021-06-19T22:03:21 < PaulFertser> Hm
2021-06-19T22:07:01 < englishman> it does say it measures battery impedance
2021-06-19T22:07:11 < englishman> but i wonder how it discerns load impedance from battery impedance
2021-06-19T22:07:25 < tct> englishman, dongs wrote betaflight?
2021-06-19T22:07:34 < BrainDamage> it assumes the load, from your params
2021-06-19T22:07:38 < PaulFertser> tct: yes, based on something else
2021-06-19T22:07:47 < tct> ah, nice
2021-06-19T22:07:49 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: but you do not specify the load
2021-06-19T22:09:15 < BrainDamage> maybe it's not neccessary if you see the RC timing? the knee is from ESR/(ESR+load) and the RC is from (ESR+load)*C
2021-06-19T22:09:28 < BrainDamage> you have 2 equations and 2 unknowns
2021-06-19T22:11:39  * PaulFertser is too stupid to understand that :(
2021-06-19T22:12:50 < BrainDamage> take spice and simulate a R+R+C series circuit
2021-06-19T22:12:51 < qyx> but hey, regardless of the technology used, BQ* are probably unobtainable
2021-06-19T22:13:01 < qyx> at least the ones I wanted
2021-06-19T22:13:10 < qyx> I even considered ST gauges
2021-06-19T22:13:25 < BrainDamage> apply a knee at the input, and look at the voltage over R+C
2021-06-19T22:13:28 < PaulFertser> qyx: the chip that prompted the discussion was cw2015
2021-06-19T22:14:05 < BrainDamage> you'll see a step at t=0, which is the voltage divider for r/(r+r) = 0.5 for this case
2021-06-19T22:14:19 < BrainDamage> and on ttop of that, you'll see the usual RC charge
2021-06-19T22:14:38 < BrainDamage> by measuring the timings you can measure RC
2021-06-19T22:14:56 < BrainDamage> and R in this case would be r+r aka 2r
2021-06-19T22:15:12 < BrainDamage> so you have a perfecly determined system if you know C
2021-06-19T22:18:30 < Ecco> Regarding the SMPS/LDO discussion
2021-06-19T22:18:37 < Ecco> Is it possible to have a board that can use either?
2021-06-19T22:18:48 < Ecco> e.g. SMPS when running, LDO when standby?
2021-06-19T22:19:05 < BrainDamage> what's the point?
2021-06-19T22:19:17 < Ecco> LDO has a higher consumption in standby
2021-06-19T22:19:22 < Ecco> sorry, smps
2021-06-19T22:19:36 < englishman> tct: he wrote baseflight, which was stolen and renamed 
2021-06-19T22:19:48 < BrainDamage> you slap a large capacitor and you turn off the smps
2021-06-19T22:19:54 < Ecco> because the overall consumption is so low that the SMPS' own internal consumption dwarfe everything else
2021-06-19T22:20:08 < Ecco> BrainDamage: yeah, but then can I keep the large cap even when using the SMPS?
2021-06-19T22:20:11 < qyx> still discussing the internal smps?
2021-06-19T22:20:16 < Ecco> yeah :)
2021-06-19T22:20:32 < BrainDamage> sure you can keep the cap
2021-06-19T22:20:44 < Ecco> coolio
2021-06-19T22:20:57 < BrainDamage> if the smps has overcurrent protection, you don't care its existance
2021-06-19T22:20:59 < qyx> I would use an external low Iq one and keep things simple
2021-06-19T22:21:04 < tct> englishman, good info
2021-06-19T22:21:18 < englishman> tct: baseflight was a stm32 port of multiwii which was an Arduino + Wii Nunchuk multicopter
2021-06-19T22:21:30 < Ecco> qyx: what do you mean? Bypass the STM32's LDO altogether?
2021-06-19T22:21:37 < englishman> shit was a little different in 2009
2021-06-19T22:22:22 < qyx> Ecco: no, I am usually using 4 uA SMPS to regulate to 1V8 to feed VDD and use the internal LDO for powering the core
2021-06-19T22:22:32 < Ecco> oh
2021-06-19T22:22:40 < qyx> so yeah, you loose 0.6 V
2021-06-19T22:22:50 < Ecco> That would be an external SMPS, right?
2021-06-19T22:23:28 < qyx> you could power the core using an external one, at least the DS says so
2021-06-19T22:23:35 < qyx> but it seems tricky
2021-06-19T22:23:37 < qyx> to me
2021-06-19T22:23:44 < Ecco> same
2021-06-19T22:23:57 < qyx> because you have to take care of voltage scaling and stuff
2021-06-19T22:24:45 < Ecco> yeah
2021-06-19T22:25:40 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KlzEV/Screenshot_2021-06-19_21-25-22.png
2021-06-19T22:25:43 < qyx> this is my usual setup
2021-06-19T22:26:28 < qyx> and this https://bin.jvnv.net/file/e2JaZ/Screenshot_2021-06-19_21-26-13.png
2021-06-19T22:26:30 < Ecco> So your entire STM32 runs at 1.8V?
2021-06-19T22:26:36 < qyx> 3V3 is actually Vbat
2021-06-19T22:26:50 < Ecco> vbat = single-cell lipo?
2021-06-19T22:27:12 < qyx> LiSOCl2 in this case
2021-06-19T22:27:25 < qyx> but yeah, 3.0 - 3.6 V
2021-06-19T22:27:28 < Ecco> ok :)
2021-06-19T22:28:08 < Ecco> dumb question: most chips expect to "chat" at 3.3V
2021-06-19T22:28:22 < Ecco> (e.g. Flash memory, LCD controllers, etc…)
2021-06-19T22:28:27 < Ecco> How do you handle this?
2021-06-19T22:28:38 < qyx> I select peripherals capable of 1V8
2021-06-19T22:28:41 < Ecco> If your MCU is at 1.8V, it's probably too "low" for a bunch of other peripherals
2021-06-19T22:28:41 < Ecco> ok
2021-06-19T22:28:46 < Ecco> makes sense
2021-06-19T22:28:46 < qyx> otherwise you have to use a translator
2021-06-19T22:28:50 < Ecco> ok
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2021-06-19T23:07:49 < Guest88> heya, i've got an stm32f7 discovery board which has an stlink on it. i'm wondering whether i would be able to use that to program another chip (an f103), rather than the onboard f7?
2021-06-19T23:08:54 < BrainDamage> yes, you have to remove the jumpers and plug the programming connector
2021-06-19T23:10:46 < Guest88> i've been trying to look for something along those lines on the board but i've not found them so far, which jumpers specifically?
2021-06-19T23:12:34 < sauce> there is a 4-pin header with a pair of 2-pin jumpers on it
2021-06-19T23:12:52 < sauce> (reading the board documentation is recommended)
2021-06-19T23:14:31 < sauce> er one moment this one's different
2021-06-19T23:15:58 < Guest88> specifically, this board is the 32F746GDISCOVERY
2021-06-19T23:19:21 < zyp> I don't think the f7 discovery has that
2021-06-19T23:20:08 < zyp> I'm looking at mine right now and I can't spot neither a connector for external targets nor the jumpers for disconnecting the onboard target
2021-06-19T23:20:35 < zyp> so while most discovery boards can, the f7 discovery is an exception
2021-06-19T23:21:09 < sauce> the block diagram does show a jumper but i guess it's a solderable link?
2021-06-19T23:21:30 < sauce> SB14 SB17 according to the schematic
2021-06-19T23:22:12 < sauce> and the unpopulated CN8 is the stlink header
2021-06-19T23:22:26 < Guest88> yeah, that much i've gathered
2021-06-19T23:22:49 < Guest88> i'll take a look, thanks
2021-06-19T23:36:37 < zyp> isn't CN8 for flashing the stlink itself?
2021-06-19T23:36:52 < zyp> pretty sure I used it for that (to load BMP on it)
2021-06-19T23:38:27 < sauce> oh shit you're right, they could have disambiguated the pin name....
2021-06-19T23:40:05 < sauce> yeah looks like this use case is a nogo without soldering stuff onto those link pads
2021-06-19T23:47:37 < qyx> so fellow C pros
2021-06-19T23:47:54 < qyx> how do you usually do integer to string conversion?
2021-06-19T23:48:04 < qyx> char s[20];
2021-06-19T23:48:15 < qyx> snprintf(s, sizeof(s) - 1, ...)
2021-06-19T23:48:29 < qyx> s[len - 1] = '\0';
2021-06-19T23:48:30 < qyx> ?
2021-06-19T23:48:30 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-19T23:48:41 < qyx> sorry, len = snprintf..
2021-06-19T23:52:21 < qyx> Otherwise, output bytes beyond the
2021-06-19T23:52:21 < qyx>        n‐1st shall be discarded instead of being written to the array,
2021-06-19T23:52:21 < qyx>        and a null byte is written at the end of the bytes actually
2021-06-19T23:52:21 < qyx>        written into the array.
2021-06-19T23:52:30 < qyx> ok, the zero part is redundant
2021-06-19T23:54:28 < mouseghost> qyx, hmmm?
2021-06-19T23:54:44 < mouseghost> you mean like a=5 and you get "5"?
2021-06-19T23:55:34 < qyx> why the hell I am thinking something different
2021-06-19T23:55:57 < qyx> I confirmed the behaviour at 3 different places
2021-06-19T23:56:19 < mouseghost> :X
2021-06-19T23:56:20 < mouseghost> waaah
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2021-06-20T03:22:16 < Steffanx> Love the dutch weather yet, mawk ?
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2021-06-20T05:22:56 < jadew> looks like my wife might be right... I am excellent at everything: http://188.25.73.249/stuff/flamp-b4.png
2021-06-20T05:25:15 < jadew> that's less than ±1 dB flatness
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2021-06-20T08:53:30 < jpa-> jadew: does she appreciate that you practice your excellence at 5:22 in the morning?
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2021-06-20T18:17:39 < mawk> hmmmm
2021-06-20T18:17:45 < mawk> zyp zyp zyp 
2021-06-20T18:18:09 < mawk> 1/x + 4/y = 1/12, x and y are positive integers ≤ 100 and y is odd
2021-06-20T18:18:21 < mawk> what are the possible (x; y) values??
2021-06-20T18:18:25 < mawk> no computer allowed
2021-06-20T18:19:03 < mawk> try too jadew 
2021-06-20T18:19:35 < mawk> you too t4nk_freenode 
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2021-06-20T18:35:04 < Steffanx> You too mawk
2021-06-20T18:35:48 < mawk> I did it already
2021-06-20T18:36:42 < mawk> the sum of all possible x and y I've found is 133
2021-06-20T18:44:01 < qyx> I can't count to 133
2021-06-20T18:47:40 < mawk> :(
2021-06-20T18:47:42 < mawk> why
2021-06-20T18:47:49 < mawk> you don't have to check by hand
2021-06-20T18:48:06 < mawk> there's a magic method to find the soluzzzio's
2021-06-20T18:50:58 < qyx> my cognitive accelerator is off today
2021-06-20T18:51:02 < mawk> :(
2021-06-20T18:52:03 < mawk> put to common denominator, you get 48x + 12y = xy
2021-06-20T18:52:07 < mawk> very easy from then on
2021-06-20T18:52:25 < mawk> nothing has been easier in the whole history of the word easy
2021-06-20T18:52:39 < mawk> except maybe laurenceb's mom
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2021-06-20T19:13:39 < zyp> uh
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2021-06-20T19:17:57 < jpa-> hmm, attiny824 looks nice, and i can actually buy it
2021-06-20T19:18:00 < jpa-> runs on 5V too
2021-06-20T19:18:17 < jpa-> and documentation is just 532 pages
2021-06-20T19:20:12 < qyx> :>
2021-06-20T19:20:18 < qyx> I concluded the same about a week ago
2021-06-20T19:20:40 < jpa-> no don't go steal my chips
2021-06-20T19:26:19 < qyx> actually I still don't know if I should use GD32F130 or atmega/attiny
2021-06-20T19:27:49 < zyp> I'd take pretty much anything cortex-m over avr
2021-06-20T19:30:34 < jpa-> i need to interface some 5V analog stuff, so looks like AVR is much easier than doing a bunch of opamp voltage translator buffers
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2021-06-20T19:33:24 < mawk> so what's the answer zyp
2021-06-20T19:41:09 < t4nk_freenode> that's a hyperbola
2021-06-20T19:41:14 < t4nk_freenode> 42 solutions
2021-06-20T19:41:31 < t4nk_freenode> lowest x being -512
2021-06-20T19:41:53 < zyp> that's outside valid range
2021-06-20T19:42:02 < t4nk_freenode> ah yeah, I just noticed
2021-06-20T19:42:31 < t4nk_freenode> well, lowest x = 0 then :)
2021-06-20T19:42:37 < mawk> why 42 solutions t4nk_freenode 
2021-06-20T19:42:39 < t4nk_freenode> togethere with y=0
2021-06-20T19:42:49 < mawk> x = 0 isn't very valid
2021-06-20T19:42:57 < mawk> it's pretty infinitz
2021-06-20T19:43:10 < mawk> x and y are positive integers t4nk_freenode 
2021-06-20T19:43:12 < mawk> below 100
2021-06-20T19:43:26 < mawk> it's an arithmetikz problem
2021-06-20T19:43:54 < mawk> 48x + 12y = xy
2021-06-20T19:43:58 < t4nk_freenode> in that case... 13, 624 springs to mind.
2021-06-20T19:44:03 < mawk> that's the common denominator form
2021-06-20T19:44:30 < mawk> what is (x-12)(y-48) ?
2021-06-20T19:44:47 < mawk> it's xy - 48x - 12y + 12•48
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2021-06-20T19:45:22 < mawk> so actually the equation we want is (x-12)(y-48) - 12•48 = 0
2021-06-20T19:45:47 < mawk> so XY = 12×48 where X = x-12 and Y = y-48
2021-06-20T19:45:58 < mawk> we've pivoted to a multiplication problem now
2021-06-20T19:46:17 < mawk> with constraint Y odd
2021-06-20T19:46:35 < mawk> so you see there's no hyperbola stuff here t4nk_freenode 
2021-06-20T19:46:49 < t4nk_freenode> (76, 57)
2021-06-20T19:47:02 < mawk> yes
2021-06-20T19:47:08 < mawk> but without computer I hope
2021-06-20T19:47:30 < t4nk_freenode> euh... I'm reading and typing this on a computer
2021-06-20T19:47:45 < t4nk_freenode> but I haven't calculated anything, I can promise you
2021-06-20T19:47:54 < mawk> XY = 12×48 and Y odd means Y = 1, 3 or 9, so X = 576, 192 or 64
2021-06-20T19:47:59 < mawk> and only the last one is allowed
2021-06-20T19:48:09 < mawk> so X = 64, Y = 9
2021-06-20T19:48:10 < t4nk_freenode> yeah that wasn't nice ;)
2021-06-20T19:48:29 < mawk> it was to make it uniq
2021-06-20T19:59:12 < jadew> jpa-, funny you asked that, because she actually woke up to tell me to go to bed
2021-06-20T20:01:09 < jpa-> yeah, i'd expect so
2021-06-20T21:29:34 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTbhJ-zXf0I
2021-06-20T21:32:59 < t4nk_freenode> alternate title: 'when you are ashamed because you like it'
2021-06-20T21:39:19 < jadew> the guy has flashbacks
2021-06-20T21:53:20 < t4nk_freenode> btw, I watch another little bit of that tiktok-boxing...
2021-06-20T21:53:26 < t4nk_freenode> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvkiFT5z-uI&t=9650s this was funny
2021-06-20T21:54:23 < t4nk_freenode> if you watch it a couple of times.. the 'if this punch had hit you!' look was funny like mad
2021-06-20T22:00:22 < jadew> haha
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2021-06-20T22:28:39 < Steffanx> Still an awful sport, t4nk_freenode
2021-06-20T22:29:53 < t4nk_freenode> no need to convince me, Steffanx .... I'm sure you'll go to Heaven :b
2021-06-20T22:30:03 < t4nk_freenode> but yeah, you're right though
2021-06-20T22:30:15 < Steffanx>  alright, wasnt sure
2021-06-20T22:30:21 < t4nk_freenode> and apart from that, everything is rigged.
2021-06-20T22:51:21 < englishman> boxing is dead
2021-06-20T22:51:30 < englishman> pro wrestling has all the good sript writers
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2021-06-20T23:04:16 < Steffanx> No, just no mr englishman  
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2021-06-20T23:23:38 < jadew> Steffanx, it's great for self defence
2021-06-20T23:23:51 < jadew> probably the most effective
2021-06-20T23:24:24 < t4nk_freenode> surely not the most effective though
2021-06-20T23:24:47 < jadew> what would you suggest as the most effective then?
2021-06-20T23:25:04 < jadew> if you were to only pick one
2021-06-20T23:25:23 < Steffanx> You and i, in our basement, are unlikely to need such thing jadew
2021-06-20T23:25:29 < Steffanx> and its an awful sport to watch
2021-06-20T23:26:00 < jadew> Steffanx, it's true that we won't need it and yeah, it's not as good as MMA in entertaining value
2021-06-20T23:26:08 < t4nk_freenode> well, at least not boxing I'd say... there's no room for rules or gentlemanship irl
2021-06-20T23:26:38 < jadew> t4nk_freenode, true, but boxing gives you the skill to end fights super fast
2021-06-20T23:26:48 < jadew> and possibly even fight multiple opponents
2021-06-20T23:27:04 < jadew> which is unheard of in any other martial art
2021-06-20T23:27:42 < jadew> and I'm excluding all the bullshido ones here
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2021-06-20T23:31:01 < Steffanx> R2COM-mode: LOL, muh guns muuh guns, Good luck with your fists in a gun fight.
2021-06-20T23:31:27 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, I was just thinking about that hehe
2021-06-20T23:31:40 < jadew> only a problem in the land of the free
2021-06-20T23:31:45 < PaulFertser> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_maga
2021-06-20T23:32:10 < jadew> PaulFertser, yeah, I don't think that's as effective as boxing either
2021-06-20T23:33:03 < jadew> anything that involves blocking and hand waving magic is BS loaded
2021-06-20T23:34:08 < jadew> I mean if you put a boxer and a krav maga practitioner face to face, my money is on the boxer
2021-06-20T23:34:22 < PaulFertser> UFC was supposed to give a substance to such claims
2021-06-20T23:34:42 < jadew> it did, it showed that only a couple of things work in real life
2021-06-20T23:35:21 < jadew> that is boxing, kicks (kick boxing, muay thai, whatever), wrestling, judo and jui-jitsu
2021-06-20T23:36:20 < jadew> basically for stand up box is king, if wrestling for take-down defence, judo for throws and jui-jitsu if you get on the ground
2021-06-20T23:36:41 < PaulFertser> And army training is supposed to be a combination of those.
2021-06-20T23:37:19 < jadew> I suppose, but from the pictures I've seen about krav-maga, it looks no different from all the other kung-fu crap
2021-06-20T23:37:48 < PaulFertser> Also, SAMBO
2021-06-20T23:39:12 < jadew> that looks legit from the pictures
2021-06-20T23:39:45 < jadew> you know how you know a martial art is BS? they have a picture of a guy blocking a knife attack: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Kravmaga.jpg
2021-06-20T23:42:54 < PaulFertser> Why?
2021-06-20T23:43:00 < t4nk_freenode> I think you're underestimating the power of deflection
2021-06-20T23:43:13 < jadew> PaulFertser, because it cannot be done
2021-06-20T23:43:25 < jadew> not without incurring serious damage
2021-06-20T23:43:49 < t4nk_freenode> I think you've never actually trained in any of those
2021-06-20T23:43:56 < t4nk_freenode> else you'd know
2021-06-20T23:44:42 < jadew> t4nk_freenode, you mean mental deflection? :)
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2021-06-20T23:45:21 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-06-20T23:46:28 < t4nk_freenode> youknow... the guy with his drunk face who picks up a knife against a trained 'deflector'... will end up seriously hurt
2021-06-20T23:46:37 < t4nk_freenode> by his own knife.
2021-06-20T23:46:59 < jadew> sure, if the attacker is drunk, maybe anyone can beat him up
2021-06-20T23:47:16 < jadew> but if someone has mean intentions the only solution is to run
2021-06-20T23:47:27 < t4nk_freenode> reminds me of a previous neighbour.... came to club down a party
2021-06-20T23:47:31 < jadew> if you cannot, because of whatever reasons, you cannot stop him without getting hurt or dying
2021-06-20T23:47:33 < t4nk_freenode> but got clubbed himself
2021-06-20T23:48:51 < PaulFertser> jadew: you can get a rubber training knife and go to a local karate club to see if a trained karateka can be effective against armed and sober jadew or not.
2021-06-20T23:49:16 < jadew> PaulFertser, they cannot, the exercise has been done before
2021-06-20T23:49:29 < jadew> untrained people with a knife > trained guy without one
2021-06-20T23:50:10 < PaulFertser> Would be interesting to learn more details about the experiment.
2021-06-20T23:50:35 < jadew> saw it done at a self-defence training class (on youtube)
2021-06-20T23:51:19 < jadew> the idea was exactly that, you cannot kung-fu your way out of it, because it's a violent and repetitive attack
2021-06-20T23:51:22 < PaulFertser> I hoped you'd share personal experience.
2021-06-20T23:51:37 < englishman> no jadew definitely has to be drunk for this experiment
2021-06-20T23:51:39 < jadew> I hope I never gain that experience
2021-06-20T23:52:14 < jadew> you might have a chance if you were a boxer
2021-06-20T23:52:26 < jadew> because then one punch could send the attacker to sleep
2021-06-20T23:52:50 < PaulFertser> jadew: I mean _you_ take the knife and go try to "cut" a kung-fu person.
2021-06-20T23:52:50 < jadew> but otherwise, in an exchange, they will hurt you more
2021-06-20T23:53:24 < PaulFertser> Agree in advance that no boxing-style direct hits to your face are allowed
2021-06-20T23:53:37 < jadew> I wouldn't do that, but if I was in that situation, yeah, I'd rather be the guy with a knife, than the guy with the training
2021-06-20T23:54:18 < jadew> PaulFertser, but those would be the only effective ones
2021-06-20T23:54:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: why not make an experiment though?
2021-06-20T23:54:52 < jadew> already read/seen a lot on the subject
2021-06-20T23:55:01 < jadew> I was able to extrapolate from that
2021-06-20T23:55:28 < PaulFertser> BTW, how would you hold the knife?
2021-06-20T23:55:44 < jadew> like a banana
2021-06-20T23:55:56 < jadew> not like in that picture that I linked
2021-06-20T23:56:14 < PaulFertser> So not the reverse grip.
2021-06-20T23:56:35 < jadew> no, that would limit your range of attacks
--- Day changed Mon Jun 21 2021
2021-06-21T00:00:49 < jadew> haven't seen the entire thing yet, but this one seems to say basically the same thing I did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNOaAZk4nDI
2021-06-21T00:03:00 < englishman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk59imFr6yI
2021-06-21T00:04:12 < jadew> that too
2021-06-21T00:09:13 < kakium69> hello night
2021-06-21T00:09:34 < kakium69> *nightium
2021-06-21T00:13:02 < kakium69> englishman: nice home video
2021-06-21T00:13:24 < kakium69> I didn't know you have a blade
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2021-06-21T00:15:31 < Steffanx> Do you have one?
2021-06-21T00:15:39 < kakium69> no
2021-06-21T00:16:03 < jadew> I have one for chopping the christmas tree to size
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2021-06-21T00:25:31 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5eL0SJh6a4
2021-06-21T00:42:49 < qyx> any micropython pros here
2021-06-21T00:43:22 < qyx> or do I have to go through the thing on my own
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2021-06-21T04:00:25 < englishman> https://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html
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2021-06-21T14:10:51 < karlp> fuckin ad harikiri.  can't even read their promo articles about their new tech without logging in.
2021-06-21T14:11:18 < karlp> like, news sites, wher ehte news _is_ the product, ok, hate it, but at least understand the mentality,
2021-06-21T14:11:35 < karlp> but chip vendors, not letting you read about the chips, but still writing promo articles about them?!
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2021-06-21T14:45:34 < englishman> captcha required too?
2021-06-21T14:45:48 < englishman> can't those robots learn about our precious chips
2021-06-21T14:57:35 < karlp> what annoys me even more is that I go tthis blockage, from a link cliekd from a direct mailing promo.
2021-06-21T14:57:54 < karlp> like, you alraedy added lots of tracking in the url, how the fuck can't you verify that you already have me as a contact?!
2021-06-21T14:58:31 < karlp> oh hey shit, they actually _forgot_ the tracking in this link in particular.
2021-06-21T14:58:35 < karlp> eediots
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2021-06-21T15:21:04 < karlp> fuck yeah, bm859s wayyyy out performing the riglol..
2021-06-21T15:21:18 < karlp> can actually measure mV AC properly.
2021-06-21T15:30:41 < ventyl> cats: sleeping, me: enter kitchen, cats: begging for <something> me: gtfo, cats: back to sleeping
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2021-06-21T15:46:20 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-06-21T15:46:21 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-06-21T15:46:23 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-06-21T15:46:25 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-06-21T15:46:34 < mawk> how do you say "to plastify" in dutch
2021-06-21T15:46:46 < mawk> I don't even know in english actually
2021-06-21T15:46:53 < mawk> like you give a guy a piece of paper and he puts plastic around it
2021-06-21T15:47:09 < mawk> I have my brand new "french citizen established abroad" card that I need to plastify
2021-06-21T15:47:27 < mawk> it's useful if I get arrested to get consulary protection from France, they provide french-speaking lawyers and so on
2021-06-21T15:47:37 < mawk> in case I get myself in a midnight express scenario
2021-06-21T15:52:24 < PaulFertser> lamination?
2021-06-21T15:52:34 < mawk> ah maybe
2021-06-21T15:52:35 < karlp> soudns like it.
2021-06-21T15:52:42 < karlp> need to get it "laminated"
2021-06-21T15:52:45 < mawk> "laminer" in french means "beat the fuck out of someone"
2021-06-21T15:52:52 < karlp> plastify sounds rad though :)
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2021-06-21T15:53:36 < mawk> so I need to find a laminating shop in the city
2021-06-21T15:53:51 < mawk> laminaat
2021-06-21T15:54:00 < mawk> oh no, that means like wooden floor
2021-06-21T15:54:08 < mawk> help me Steffanx 
2021-06-21T15:56:54 < mawk> look at my beautiful card https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210621145636072.png
2021-06-21T15:57:43 < PaulFertser> It's looking great but I hope you're not going to get arrested any time soon.
2021-06-21T15:58:42 < mawk> normally no
2021-06-21T16:00:13 < Steffanx> Pastificeren mawk 
2021-06-21T16:00:25 < mawk> pastificeren???
2021-06-21T16:00:29 < mawk> why now plastificeren
2021-06-21T16:00:32 < mawk> are dutch people insane
2021-06-21T16:00:46 < Steffanx> But lamineren would work too
2021-06-21T16:01:02 < mawk> ah yes google likes that
2021-06-21T16:01:10 < Steffanx> I think we often use those two words for the same thing
2021-06-21T16:01:16 < mawk> thanks
2021-06-21T16:01:25 < mawk> there is "copie-sjop" in delft
2021-06-21T16:01:49 < Steffanx> Yay
2021-06-21T16:25:18 < Xogium> hmmm well fudge I got a board I wanted… With detached gpio :O
2021-06-21T16:25:36 < Xogium> like I have gpio headers separate from the board
2021-06-21T16:25:56 < Xogium> it's litterally the first time I see this
2021-06-21T16:27:33 < Xogium> reckon those have to be soldered, right ?
2021-06-21T16:29:14 < PaulFertser> Xogium: "bluepill" is often sold like that, yes.
2021-06-21T16:29:27 < Xogium> well, damn me
2021-06-21T16:29:42 < PaulFertser> Xogium: they're trivial to solder, you do not need any expert, just anybody.
2021-06-21T16:29:47 < Xogium> could I make it work with just breadboard wires somehow ?
2021-06-21T16:30:19 < Xogium> I suppose not
2021-06-21T16:30:20 < mawk> maybe
2021-06-21T16:30:26 < mawk> but not in a reliable way
2021-06-21T16:30:34 < Xogium> well, fsck
2021-06-21T16:30:36 < mawk> especially if you don't see what you're doing you'll just short things
2021-06-21T16:30:57 < mawk> knock on your neighbor door and offer him a warm smile in exchange for soldering
2021-06-21T16:31:12 < mawk> or mail it to someone here, where do you live?
2021-06-21T16:31:15 < Xogium> ftr this is lichee nano board
2021-06-21T16:31:41 < mawk> from seeeeeeeeeeedstudio?
2021-06-21T16:31:55 < mawk> "lichee nano linux dev board"
2021-06-21T16:32:35 < qyx> Xogium: you can get it working with a serial console over usb
2021-06-21T16:32:54 < mawk> yeah but he wants to plug it into a breadboard I suppose
2021-06-21T16:32:54 < karlp> it's often sold that way so that people can choose to have male/female/up/down/long/short pins sort of variants.
2021-06-21T16:33:32 < karlp> some vendors even ofter "with pins soldered" and "without" as a separate option.
2021-06-21T16:37:48 < mawk> so where do you live Xogium 
2021-06-21T16:42:14 < mawk> if you refund the price of a board + the price of postage I can solder it for you
2021-06-21T16:42:47 < mawk> I find a treasure buried in my garden I'll do it for free, but until then I don't have extra money
2021-06-21T16:47:10 < Xogium> mawk: yeah sorry I got distracted
2021-06-21T16:48:31 < Xogium> mawk: I'm in britany
2021-06-21T17:03:41 < PaulFertser> Xogium: teach someone close to you to solder, basics are not hard.
2021-06-21T17:04:04 < Xogium> I can't solder, so how would I teach them though ?
2021-06-21T17:04:52 < PaulFertser> Xogium: by providing them moral support and sitting nearby while watching youtube videos.
2021-06-21T17:05:30 < PaulFertser> Xogium: I'm not kidding, I honestly think that should be enough.
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2021-06-21T17:06:49 < Xogium> for a second I wasn't sure if you were or not ;)
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2021-06-21T17:10:13 < Xogium> mawk: hmm usb console you say ? Is this via gadget usb serial or is it low level ?
2021-06-21T17:10:23 < mawk> qyx said it
2021-06-21T17:10:44 < mawk> britanny
2021-06-21T17:10:44 < Xogium> oh, sorry I thought it was you
2021-06-21T17:10:49 < mawk> like the french britanny?
2021-06-21T17:11:02 < mawk> where it rains 24/24
2021-06-21T17:11:07 < Xogium> yep. I still have some badass pancakes ;)
2021-06-21T17:11:10 < mawk> and people have round hats
2021-06-21T17:11:18 < mawk> and are all alcoholics
2021-06-21T17:11:19 < mawk> good
2021-06-21T17:11:23 < mawk> so postage should be cheap
2021-06-21T17:11:32 < Xogium> where are you from ?
2021-06-21T17:11:39 < mawk> paris
2021-06-21T17:11:46 < mawk> but I live in netherlands now
2021-06-21T17:11:52 < mawk> I'm a dutchman no,
2021-06-21T17:11:52 < Xogium> oh wow
2021-06-21T17:11:53 < mawk> now
2021-06-21T17:12:00 < Xogium> work made you move ?
2021-06-21T17:12:09 < Xogium> or did you had enough of paris ;)
2021-06-21T17:12:11 < mawk> kinda
2021-06-21T17:12:20 < mawk> a combination of work and some issues with the french justice
2021-06-21T17:12:29 < Xogium> that's no fun
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2021-06-21T17:13:03 < mawk> judicial debts go extinct after 5 years normally, so I can come back in 3 years, unless I pay them the debt
2021-06-21T17:13:38 < Xogium> and from your tone I gather you're not about to do that
2021-06-21T17:13:39 < mawk> no Paris is fine, just noisy
2021-06-21T17:13:47 < mawk> well I'm too poor for that
2021-06-21T17:15:06 < mawk> the full story is I got evicted from an apartment and I have to pay the landlord (which is a kind of public company since it was a HLM apartment) a bunch of money
2021-06-21T17:15:21 < Xogium> oops
2021-06-21T17:15:28 < Xogium> yeah, that's no good
2021-06-21T17:15:44 < mawk> I was paying my rent and so on, but I wasn't allowed in the HLM because I didn't properly transmit the bail from the last tenant
2021-06-21T17:15:55 < mawk> and a neighbor snitched on me
2021-06-21T17:16:30 < Xogium> typical, yeah I'm not even surprised it happened
2021-06-21T17:17:42 < mawk> in netherlands where I am the housing prices are similar to parisian ones though
2021-06-21T17:17:53 < mawk> 1000€ for 40 square meters, more or less
2021-06-21T17:29:34 < mawk> I have dutch homework Steffanx 
2021-06-21T17:29:41 < mawk> I need to describe someone of my entourage in dutch
2021-06-21T17:29:45 < mawk> so I chose the cat
2021-06-21T17:40:21 < Steffanx> Not your all time favourite russian gf and igor?
2021-06-21T17:40:31 < Steffanx> Or ivan
2021-06-21T17:40:48 < Steffanx> Or Boris. Vladimir. I dont remember 
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2021-06-21T19:11:20 < mawk> igor
2021-06-21T19:11:27 < mawk> of course
2021-06-21T19:11:39 < mawk> all russians are named Igor
2021-06-21T19:11:41 < mawk> even PaulFertser 
2021-06-21T19:11:51 < Xogium> woohoo I found a bug with my solo key and ssh on the first day :O
2021-06-21T19:11:56 < mawk> I made my laminated card Steffanx 
2021-06-21T19:12:04 < mawk> now I can get a french lawyer if I get arrested abroad
2021-06-21T19:12:16 < mawk> I should've chosen a better picture
2021-06-21T19:12:48 < mawk> what's a solo key Xogium 
2021-06-21T19:13:04 < Xogium> mawk: you know about hardware auth keys I suppose ?
2021-06-21T19:13:09 < mawk> yes
2021-06-21T19:13:20 < mawk> I use one time passwords
2021-06-21T19:13:31 < Xogium> well, it's an open source, open hardware fido2 / u2f key
2021-06-21T19:13:40 < mawk> ah nice
2021-06-21T19:13:44 < mawk> fido is a dog name
2021-06-21T19:13:53 < Xogium> hehe yeah it is
2021-06-21T19:14:07 < Xogium> it's nice, but this part isn't very nice atm
2021-06-21T19:14:25 < Xogium> https://github.com/solokeys/solo/issues/374#issuecomment-865161172
2021-06-21T19:16:25 < Xogium> a bit ironic I talk about it here since the chip powering it stm32l405 iirc
2021-06-21T19:16:34 < Xogium> or well at least one in the l family at any rate
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2021-06-21T20:06:10 < jadew> this chip shortage thing is fucking stupid
2021-06-21T20:06:39 < jadew> estimated delivery date July 10th
2021-06-21T20:06:47 < emeb> 2022
2021-06-21T20:06:50 < jadew> but I missed _2022_
2021-06-21T20:06:52 < jadew> yeah
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2021-06-21T20:07:00 < t4nk_freenode> u sure you didn't just order in China? ;)
2021-06-21T20:07:19 < jadew> that's for mouser and TME
2021-06-21T20:07:19  * t4nk_freenode picks up his knife in defence
2021-06-21T20:07:30 < emeb> It's not really that bad. The mfgs & distys are putting super long delivery dates but are usually beating them by a lot.
2021-06-21T20:08:00 < jadew> I have 5 pcs in stock that I bought to develop with, so at the very least I can run tests on them, got plenty of time till next year
2021-06-21T20:08:08 < emeb> My clients are placing backorders for chips w/ distys like Digi-Key & Mouser - promise dates out to next year, but they're usually getting deliveries within a few months.
2021-06-21T20:08:11 < t4nk_freenode> (*defense was also acceptable)
2021-06-21T20:08:30 < jpa-> on the other hand new chips are going out of stock all the time, so very hard to predict anything
2021-06-21T20:08:33 < jadew> emeb, I might put an order on it too
2021-06-21T20:08:48 < emeb> jadew: it's a good idea to just get in line.
2021-06-21T20:09:00 < emeb> you can always cancel if you change your mind down the road.
2021-06-21T20:09:00 < jadew> right, that's a good point
2021-06-21T20:09:10 < jpa-> i bet there is a lot of hoarding and double-ordering going on
2021-06-21T20:09:22 < jadew> for sure
2021-06-21T20:09:32 < jadew> it's the TP thing all over again
2021-06-21T20:09:41 < emeb> The double ordering is a big problem, and part of why the deliveries are not as far out as quoted. 
2021-06-21T20:10:00 < emeb> Someone double orders, one comes in and they cancel the other. Suddenly you jump ahead in the queue.
2021-06-21T20:13:21 < jadew> that chip was meant to be a nicer replacement for what I'm currently using, but now I'm starting to think that maybe I should stockpile on the old one
2021-06-21T20:14:27 < emeb> Not a bad idea. We just recently had a critical chip go unobtainium on several designs. 
2021-06-21T20:14:50 < emeb> as in the mfg lost the recipe and can't make them anymore - regardless of the overall chip shortage.
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2021-06-21T20:15:17 < jadew> ah, that requires a redesign
2021-06-21T20:15:19 < emeb> So now it's time to find a suitable replacement for the next production runs. And redesign the PCB, and tweak the firmware.
2021-06-21T20:18:50 < jadew> hmm... looks like some of the other chips I'm using are out of stock
2021-06-21T20:19:05 < jadew> lead time two months - I can live with that
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2021-06-21T20:23:13 < jadew> oh I remember that one, I bought the last ones in stock
2021-06-21T20:23:31 < jadew> not sure if they delivered them tho
2021-06-21T20:25:35 < karlp> I kinda feel like I should ask microchip for help with this, but I kinda feel like they'll just say, "that's just how it is"
2021-06-21T20:25:49 < karlp> atm90e32: settles ~instantly after changing calibration registers: https://paste.centos.org/view/c74fab0c
2021-06-21T20:26:10 < karlp> atm90e36: takes about 20 seconds: https://paste.centos.org/view/316c7590
2021-06-21T20:28:11 < jpa-> also the response seems weird, going high first and then settling to correct value
2021-06-21T20:29:28 < karlp> it won't really matter in production, but it will absolutely trash rapid programming calibration.
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2021-06-21T20:30:14 < karlp> the e32 was great compared to the old anlog devices part we used, as far as calib speed, but e32's out of stock and e36 is "e32+harmonics" so it's meant to be "better"
2021-06-21T20:34:27 < jpa-> karlp: what are you doing about the register checksums? keeping it in calibration mode constantly?
2021-06-21T20:34:49 < jpa-> or in power up state
2021-06-21T20:35:48 < karlp> just leaving it in power up.
2021-06-21T20:36:04 < karlp> I'm not really sure what sort of "protection" it's meant to provide anyway.
2021-06-21T20:36:10 < jpa-> yeah
2021-06-21T20:36:11 < karlp> e32 doesn't even have it.
2021-06-21T20:36:37 < karlp> you think it might be worth explicitly placing it in "calibration" and seeing how it behaves?
2021-06-21T20:36:44 < jpa-> yep, i noticed the difference and thought that it might affect something, but i guess if there was "checksum error and measuring stopped" then it would never settle
2021-06-21T20:37:22 < karlp> yeah, it settles, it's just... wat
2021-06-21T20:37:44 < karlp> this particular hardware I don't have the option of turning off the integrator and seeing if it's related to that.
2021-06-21T20:37:59 < karlp> e32s will be back in stock eventually anyway....
2021-06-21T20:39:16 < karlp> anyway, home thyme, something to ponder.
2021-06-21T20:44:36 < qyx> yeah, another monday passed
2021-06-21T20:44:56 < qyx> ttl--;
2021-06-21T20:46:13 < PaulFertser> - Daria, do you ever feel like you are wasting your life? - Only when I’m awake.
2021-06-21T20:46:49 < jpa-> karlp: i guess you could test if the VGainC has similar delay, and if not, try disabling & re-enabling the didt integrator after changing the gain
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2021-06-21T20:49:34 < qyx> jlcpcb was not that wrong, they said 7-10 work days using their EU "office", it is going to be delivered on the 12th work day
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2021-06-21T21:15:23 < englishman> TI is out of this one opamp
2021-06-21T21:15:33 < englishman> telling me to go buy some new pre-RTM one
2021-06-21T21:15:33 < englishman> wtf
2021-06-21T21:29:11 < sync> karlp: are the microchip AFEs any good?
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2021-06-21T23:52:08 < karlp> sync: works for me?   we don't honestly make terribly difficult demands of them, but yeah, much simpler calibration, and easily 1/3 to 1/2 the price of similar analol devices parts we've used.
2021-06-21T23:53:06 < karlp> haven't actually finished a full calib sweep on the new gen stuff, but it's all "looks about right, and no reason to doubt the datasheet much"
2021-06-21T23:53:55 < karlp> it's certainly capable of pulling out very small signals, rated for like 130uV to 720mV or something, 
2021-06-21T23:54:15 < karlp> microchip had some of their own before they got these old atmel/IDT ones, not sure if they still sell them?
2021-06-21T23:54:56 < karlp> there's.... higher jitter in the zero crossing detection.... if that matters for you :)
2021-06-21T23:55:21 < karlp> I'm currently going to "solve that in software"[tm]
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2021-06-21T23:59:06 < englishman> tornado warning here
2021-06-21T23:59:08 < englishman> hmm
--- Day changed Tue Jun 22 2021
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2021-06-22T00:15:01 < sync> oh ok karlp
2021-06-22T00:15:18 < sync> I just used some analol part because it seemed like the easiest option
2021-06-22T00:41:44 < karlp> well, the analol one we used had the same level of information for using it in integrator mode.
2021-06-22T00:41:50 < karlp> ie, "this bit turns it on"  
2021-06-22T00:41:54 < karlp> and nothing else whatsoerver
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2021-06-22T01:19:48 < englishman> 1 dead, several homes destroyed
2021-06-22T01:20:37 < englishman> https://www.facebook.com/546016274/videos/10158621458666275/
2021-06-22T01:22:21 < kakium69> looks rather low energy cyclone
2021-06-22T01:24:02 < kakium69> your hood englishman?
2021-06-22T01:28:54 < englishman> not far
2021-06-22T01:29:42 < kakium69> cyclones are rather rare in here
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2021-06-22T01:39:55 < englishman> here too
2021-06-22T01:40:48 < kakium69> for being rare
2021-06-22T01:41:00 < kakium69> that is hecking massive
2021-06-22T01:41:37 < kakium69> here small cyclones just appear and then vanish
2021-06-22T01:41:47 < kakium69> usually not even reaching ground
2021-06-22T01:44:06 < kakium69> I think I have seen such once
2021-06-22T01:44:21 < kakium69> just up in the clouds
2021-06-22T01:44:56 < kakium69> while flying a glider ofc
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2021-06-22T02:28:45 < mawk> tighten up the bolts in your house englishman 
2021-06-22T02:31:08 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pDcv6g1FE0 oldschool diodes
2021-06-22T02:35:09 < Streaker> photonic is pregnant!
2021-06-22T02:48:38 < Streaker> his eyes are going to burn so bad tomorrow
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2021-06-22T03:09:22 < Ecco> I have a question regarding capacitors on Vcap
2021-06-22T03:09:48 < Ecco> The datasheet I'm reading says "you should hook one 2.2uF on each vcap pin"
2021-06-22T03:10:08 < Ecco> If you have 3 vcap pins, then just don't put a cap on one
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2021-06-22T03:10:30 < Ecco> Question 1 : All vcap pins should be connected to each other anyway, right?
2021-06-22T03:10:58 < Ecco> Question 2: wouldn't it make more sense to use three 1.1uF caps, one per vcap?
2021-06-22T03:12:55 < englishman> there's not a whole lot of difference between a 1u and a 2.2u cap
2021-06-22T03:13:08 < englishman> but if you are blindly following instructions, why not follow them instead of add your own assumptions?
2021-06-22T03:13:34 < englishman> why would a 1u be superior?
2021-06-22T03:15:55 < Ecco> Oh, that's kind of the point of my quesitons: understanding whta's going on :)
2021-06-22T03:16:08 < Ecco> Actually, I don't understand why they ask for 2 separate caps
2021-06-22T03:16:10 < Ecco> there are 3 vcap pins
2021-06-22T03:16:23 < Ecco> using either just one big cap or 3 small ones would (I guess?) make sense
2021-06-22T03:16:27 < Ecco> but 2, I just don't get it
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2021-06-22T03:18:41 < Streaker> Ecco: link to the datasheet?
2021-06-22T03:20:54 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/VOxrTMN.png
2021-06-22T03:21:04 < Ecco> "If a third VCAP pin is available on the package, it must be connected to the other VCAP pins but no additional capacitor is required."
2021-06-22T03:25:31 < Streaker> not required doesn't mean you can't put one there.
2021-06-22T03:26:02 < Ecco> Well yeah :)
2021-06-22T03:26:03 < Streaker> some regulators will oscillate with too much output capacitance.
2021-06-22T03:27:09 < Ecco> Now, I have another set of quesitons
2021-06-22T03:27:15 < Ecco> I'm reading docs about STM32H725
2021-06-22T03:27:26 < Ecco> Namely: datasheet, getting started guide, and reference schematics
2021-06-22T03:27:44 < Ecco> When it comes to using the built-in SMPS, the 3 seems very *very* inconsistent
2021-06-22T03:27:55 < Ecco> For example
2021-06-22T03:28:15 < Ecco> regarding Vcap, the getting started guide says :
2021-06-22T03:28:45 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/5zQpGWF.png
2021-06-22T03:29:12 < Ecco> LDO disabled -> Vcap should be one 100nF per Vcap pin
2021-06-22T03:29:21 < Ecco> But then the reference schematics:
2021-06-22T03:29:57 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/2XyRyb7.png
2021-06-22T03:30:23 < Ecco> -> They use a pair of 4.7uF cap for Vcap
2021-06-22T03:31:06 < Streaker> what's inconsistent in that?
2021-06-22T03:31:15 < Ecco> Well, 100nF isn't exactly 4.7 uF, is it?
2021-06-22T03:31:39 < englishman> usually those pins are to provide capacitance across a large chip
2021-06-22T03:31:46 < Streaker> 100nF is if the LDO is disabled.
2021-06-22T03:32:07 < Ecco> But the LDO is disabled in the reference schematics
2021-06-22T03:32:19 < englishman> 3rd vcap pin can be just to provide flexibility in placement/routing
2021-06-22T03:33:05 < Streaker> The other thing is 100nF is the minimum required. You can easily put much more. The LDO is not running anyway.
2021-06-22T03:33:22 < Ecco> hmm,ok, makes sense
2021-06-22T03:33:34 < jadew> probably an error in the reference design
2021-06-22T03:33:49 < Streaker> where is the LDO disabled?
2021-06-22T03:34:04 < jadew> yeah, common sense would suggest that if you disable something, you'll need less power available
2021-06-22T03:34:09 < Ecco> Streaker: Top left corner: SPMS mode (as opposed to SMPS+LDO)
2021-06-22T03:34:16 < jadew> so going to higher capacitance doesn't make sense
2021-06-22T03:34:23 < jadew> yeah, I noticed
2021-06-22T03:34:30 < Ecco> Also, in the same vein
2021-06-22T03:34:40 < Ecco> There's another part which makes no sense to me whatsoever
2021-06-22T03:34:53 < englishman> are you sure c54/c23 are near vcap?
2021-06-22T03:34:59 < Streaker> is VCAP shared by the LDO and the SMPS?
2021-06-22T03:35:16 < jadew> oh, right, what englishman said too
2021-06-22T03:35:19 < englishman> c53/c22 look like they are the vcap caps
2021-06-22T03:35:25 < Streaker> I see both 2.2uF and 4.7uF on the board
2021-06-22T03:35:27 < Ecco> englishman: not positive, but that's the only explanation I found
2021-06-22T03:35:30 < Ecco> Actually
2021-06-22T03:35:31 < Streaker> so VCAP pins are probably shared
2021-06-22T03:35:34 < Ecco> I have one explanation that makes sense
2021-06-22T03:35:46 < Ecco> 2.2uF or 4.7uF are mutually exclusive
2021-06-22T03:35:56 < Ecco> you enable one of the pairs with solder bridges
2021-06-22T03:36:01 < Streaker> yes, but they're both connected to the same pins
2021-06-22T03:36:01 < Ecco> but I do have an explanation for those
2021-06-22T03:36:17 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/jI0vsZN.png
2021-06-22T03:36:17 < Streaker> so you enable a solder bridge to 2.2uF for LDO and another solder bridge to 4.7uF for SMPS
2021-06-22T03:36:37 < Ecco> The datasheet there says that the SMPS needs 10uF of Cout filtering
2021-06-22T03:36:40 < Streaker> read the datasheet, I bet VCAP pins are shared between LDO and SMPS
2021-06-22T03:36:52 < Ecco> Streaker: they totally are
2021-06-22T03:37:00 < Ecco> but I'm interested in the SMPS-only case
2021-06-22T03:37:03 < englishman> that's about what you get with two 4.7
2021-06-22T03:37:09 < Ecco> englishman: yeah, my explanation :)
2021-06-22T03:37:23 < Ecco> But then why would they say you can make do with 100nF? it's not very clear
2021-06-22T03:37:23 < englishman> there you go
2021-06-22T03:37:34 < Ecco> I assume they mean "100nF if you don't use neither LDO nor SMPS"
2021-06-22T03:37:37 < jadew> on vcap
2021-06-22T03:38:05 < jadew> the 4.7 uF caps seem to be shared with everything
2021-06-22T03:38:48 < Ecco> Well, yeah, if you look at the datasheet
2021-06-22T03:38:48 < jadew> their purpose is just to make sure you don't get weird fluctuations if you use 3 meters of wire to power the board
2021-06-22T03:39:00 < Ecco> vcap is connected to vfbsmps
2021-06-22T03:39:09 < jadew> the other ones seem to have a more specific purpose
2021-06-22T03:39:13 < Ecco> so there are indeed a bunch of caps connected to each other
2021-06-22T03:39:20 < Ecco> but wait a second
2021-06-22T03:39:39 < Ecco> there's one thing which I think makes no sense at all whatsoever
2021-06-22T03:39:49 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/GZgPBb6.png
2021-06-22T03:39:56 < Ecco> This is the "Getting started" guide
2021-06-22T03:40:02 < jadew> ah, just took another they're not on the power rails
2021-06-22T03:40:25 < Ecco> apparently VDDSMPS should have either 10uF, 2x10uF, 10uf+100nF or 10uF+4.7uF
2021-06-22T03:40:32 < Ecco> Meanwhile, the datasheet says
2021-06-22T03:40:50 < Ecco> "Cout should be 10uF", and that's it
2021-06-22T03:41:05 < Ecco> What are they even talking about in the "getting started" guid?
2021-06-22T03:41:30 < jadew> I'm sure they have the notes somewhere in a drawer
2021-06-22T03:42:03 < Ecco> :-D
2021-06-22T03:42:11 < jadew> I guess they defined performance somehow and then ran a couple of tests
2021-06-22T03:42:23 < jadew> maybe you can figure out from the context what "performance" means
2021-06-22T03:42:43 < Ecco> I guess. But there's really just one pin anyway, why/how would you solder 2 caps there?
2021-06-22T03:42:45 < jadew> if they indicate that, then you can probably follow the guide
2021-06-22T03:42:53 < jadew> because it was written after the datasheet
2021-06-22T03:44:25 < jadew> what do you mean how?
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2021-06-22T03:55:20 < jadew> https://www.bosch.com/stories/bosch-chip-factory-dresden/
2021-06-22T04:06:36 < Ecco> I have (yet) another question
2021-06-22T04:06:51 < Ecco> when you put an STM32 to sleep using vbat
2021-06-22T04:07:26 < Ecco> can you shut down the Vcore supply altogether?
2021-06-22T04:07:46 < Ecco> IOW, assuming an STM32H725 powered with an SMPS
2021-06-22T04:08:12 < Ecco> would it be possible to compltely turn the SMPS off when in standby, assuming vbat is provided with an acceptable voltage?
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2021-06-22T07:57:38 < jpa-> Ecco: AFAIK standby turns off Vcore & SMPS automatically - and consequently when it resumes, the CPU reboots because ram and registers have been lost
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2021-06-22T11:23:06 < Helmholtz> I'm running a python script on phone memory (so eMMC FLASH) which takes ~20h. My fear is memory wear. I've modified it to write the db (~3MiB) every 15 minutes. Does this unbuffered writing of STDOUT to memory affect the memory in terms of write-cycles limitations?  I invoke the script via `python3 -u my_script &> $PREFIX/tmp/blah.log `
2021-06-22T11:24:09 < Helmholtz> I use Termux. Does Android pipes somehow accumulate STDOUT to optimize for memory blocks?
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2021-06-22T11:40:44 < jpa-> Helmholtz: maybe you could put the blah.log on tmpfs (ram filesystem)
2021-06-22T11:41:56 < jpa-> linux kernel will accumulate the file writing for a short interval in the filesystem cache, but typically phones are set to flush caches within a few seconds to avoid data loss
2021-06-22T11:42:39 < Helmholtz> jpa-, I don't think it would survive Termux restart
2021-06-22T11:42:55 < jpa-> why do you need it to be unbuffered?
2021-06-22T11:43:09 < Helmholtz> If STDOUT is written on every print, my optimization of that 3MiB file is moot
2021-06-22T11:43:20 < Helmholtz> jpa-, To see the log
2021-06-22T11:43:29 < Helmholtz> I ssh into my phone and see the logs
2021-06-22T11:44:56 < jpa-> you could have your python script run sys.stdout.flush() every time it writes the database, then it would update the log at the same time
2021-06-22T11:45:08 < Helmholtz> jpa-, nice idea!
2021-06-22T11:45:25 < jpa-> or you could have it react to something like   killall -USR1 python   by calling sys.stdout.flush(), then you could have it flush the log and database when you want
2021-06-22T11:47:06 < Helmholtz> Don't Android browsers abuse memory like crazy?
2021-06-22T11:47:17 < Helmholtz> I wonder if this precaution is necessary
2021-06-22T11:50:06 < jpa-> IIRC android applications are allocated a separate cache area; maybe there are different kind of writeback settings for it
2021-06-22T11:51:56 < Helmholtz> jpa-, thanks for your helps 🤗
2021-06-22T11:52:03 < jpa-> looks like normal linux kernel cannot set writeback timeout per partition, only for the whole system - so perhaps not
2021-06-22T11:55:58 < Helmholtz> jpa-, Have you done Linux from scratch? What is your daily driver setup?
2021-06-22T11:56:10 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-22T11:56:41 < jpa-> ubuntu :)
2021-06-22T12:06:45  * karlp checks what channel he's in...
2021-06-22T12:07:07 < jpa-> it's the energy meter debugging & android internals channel
2021-06-22T12:07:39 < karlp> ah, good, the right one then..
2021-06-22T12:08:06 < karlp> unless you're planning on running that script every day, on 10k phones, I wouldn't think twice about it...
2021-06-22T12:11:44 < Steffanx> Why my phone says "Google keeps stopping" all the time, jpa- ?
2021-06-22T12:12:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: clear all the caches
2021-06-22T12:12:38 < Helmholtz> karlp, I've asked this on linux, python and some other channels. No response. When it comes to these system-level questions, folks are clueless (even the FULL-STACK SV CHADS)  
2021-06-22T12:12:42 < Steffanx> Hah I know. Seems to be a world wide issue
2021-06-22T12:13:31 < Steffanx> Helmholtz is your last name Blaxter?
2021-06-22T12:14:04 < Helmholtz> Steffanx, 'fraid not
2021-06-22T12:14:09 < Steffanx> Or did you take your mother's name and your father's name is Blaxter?
2021-06-22T12:15:25 < Steffanx> There must be a connection. No one else on irc uses the "chad" thing ;)
2021-06-22T12:16:00 < Helmholtz> Steffanx, too linguistic for a dutchman  
2021-06-22T12:17:12 < Helmholtz> Steffanx, 70% of zoomzoom talk are chad/virgin/yeet  
2021-06-22T12:18:12 < Steffanx> What on earth is zoomzoom talk
2021-06-22T12:18:20 < Steffanx> Is that the new whateverchan?
2021-06-22T12:18:24 < karlp> oh dear.
2021-06-22T12:18:32 < Steffanx> Nevermind. I dont want to know 
2021-06-22T12:18:38 < Helmholtz> zoomers
2021-06-22T12:19:07 < Steffanx> Oh gen z
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2021-06-22T14:20:59 < BrainDamage> https://www.darkcoding.net/software/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-professional-software-engineer/
2021-06-22T14:26:03 -!- skz81_ [~SKZ@98.51.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-22T14:27:56 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
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2021-06-22T14:31:32 < qyx> lold
2021-06-22T14:34:17 < qyx> lold at chadtalk too
2021-06-22T14:34:25 < qyx> at karlp too
2021-06-22T14:35:27 < qyx> ot, I searched the whole interwebs for an answer how to run multiple micropython instances
2021-06-22T14:36:36 < qyx> and it looks like uP people simply refuse to accept anything like that may be even wanted
2021-06-22T14:37:38 < BrainDamage> python has issues with even multithreading, memory partitioning? pfff
2021-06-22T14:38:06 < jpa-> IIRC normal python is easily able to run multiple instanced
2021-06-22T14:38:17 < BrainDamage> it does
2021-06-22T14:38:35 < BrainDamage> but it has an os to back it
2021-06-22T14:38:58 < jpa-> i mean, in the same process
2021-06-22T14:39:14 < jpa-> it's not like it needs anything special, just that it doesn't use static / global variables
2021-06-22T14:40:12 < BrainDamage> how do you manage the scheduling?
2021-06-22T14:40:41 < jpa-> threads, co-operative, whatever you want
2021-06-22T14:42:28 < jpa-> qyx: i think mpstate.h is what you want
2021-06-22T14:42:42 < jpa-> "The state is a global variable, but in the future it is hoped that the state can become local."
2021-06-22T14:43:23 < jpa-> you might be able to make the variables thread-local or accessed through a pointer by editing that header
2021-06-22T14:47:21 < karlp> qyx: what are you lolling at me for today?
2021-06-22T14:53:02 < karlp> kaks, what are you doing now? https://twitter.com/enjoy_digital/status/1407261082004164612
2021-06-22T15:50:05 < Ecco> I have a dumb question: why does the datasheet give two different consumption for Standby vs Vbat?
2021-06-22T15:50:17 < Ecco> I was under the impression that there was just one "Standby" state
2021-06-22T15:50:41 < zyp> what do you mean?
2021-06-22T15:51:10 < zyp> vbat is a whole separate input, which only powers the backup domain when vdd is not present
2021-06-22T15:51:23 < Ecco> yes indeed
2021-06-22T15:51:42 < Ecco> but then why would the datasheet give 2 different current consumption for the same Standby state?
2021-06-22T15:51:59 < Ecco> Shouldn't it be the same if it is powered through vbat or vdd?
2021-06-22T15:52:03 < zyp> can you refer to the actual datasheet?
2021-06-22T15:52:07 < Ecco> of course
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2021-06-22T15:53:17 < Ecco> This https://i.imgur.com/mXPJpK6.png
2021-06-22T15:53:26 < Ecco> then that https://i.imgur.com/S2etMN3.png
2021-06-22T16:01:06 < mawk> the virgin helmholtz vs the chad Steffanx 
2021-06-22T16:02:02 < Ecco> Also the numbers are wildly different between Idd(standby) vs Idd(Vbat)
2021-06-22T16:02:06 < Ecco> I just don't get it
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2021-06-22T17:00:45 < qyx> jpa-: they are hoping quite a few years
2021-06-22T17:11:37  * t4nk_freenode calls good moaning
2021-06-22T17:14:56 < qyx> karlp: "the right channel"
2021-06-22T17:33:41 < bitmask> what should I work on? I gots 3 choices
2021-06-22T17:33:54 < mawk> the second choice bitmask 
2021-06-22T17:34:01 < bitmask> cloud chamber, painting and hydro dipping my 3D printers lack enclosure  connectors, or my RO water filter system
2021-06-22T17:34:52 < bitmask> I think im gonna work a little bit on all 3 starting with the first
2021-06-22T17:42:25 < BrainDamage> do you plan to attach a camera to the cloud chamber?
2021-06-22T17:42:48 < srk> I'm working on printer enclosure as well, got acrylic for doors and hinges yesterday
2021-06-22T17:44:42 < t4nk_freenode> heh, with this weather, I was thinking of putting my printer in a utilities closet
2021-06-22T17:45:12 < srk> is it hot in there? :D
2021-06-22T17:45:34 < srk> I might add additional heating (IR lamps) at some point
2021-06-22T17:45:44 < t4nk_freenode> it wasn't much fun sitting right next to the printer all day
2021-06-22T17:45:51 < srk> haha
2021-06-22T17:46:04 < srk> yesterday I was like 'only quick prints allowed' xD
2021-06-22T17:47:03 < srk> what printer do you have?
2021-06-22T17:47:23 < t4nk_freenode> ender3
2021-06-22T17:48:11 < srk> does it fit lack as well? :D
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2021-06-22T17:52:28 < t4nk_freenode> I got a closet with pretty deep shelves
2021-06-22T17:52:35 < t4nk_freenode> should fit in there easily
2021-06-22T17:53:05 < t4nk_freenode> I'd even have room to fit some more unwanted hardware in there
2021-06-22T17:55:06 < t4nk_freenode> hehe.. if that's what you meant at all :b
2021-06-22T18:01:36 < BrainDamage> do they have dissipation problems on the extruder?
2021-06-22T18:01:54 < BrainDamage> otherwise sounds like it'd only benefit having a constant thermal envelope
2021-06-22T18:04:51 < englishman> MIC2954 looks like a potential replacement for a TI ldo that's out of stock
2021-06-22T18:04:55 < englishman> but why does it sound familiar
2021-06-22T18:04:59 < englishman> and why do i get these chills
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2021-06-22T18:22:09 < bitmask> not sure if i plan to attach a camera to the cloud chamber but i def will take pic/video
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2021-06-22T18:22:30 < jpa-> Ecco: standby powers much more than just the vbat circuitry
2021-06-22T18:22:33 < bitmask> yea ive been trying to avoid using my printer because of the weather too, sucks balls
2021-06-22T18:23:54 < bitmask> oh nice, my refillable spray bottle is arriving today, gonna try it with hydro film activator, not sure how messy it would be with paint
2021-06-22T18:30:20 < bitmask> ugh, with my tiny pressurized tank (0.1 gallon) the pressure never gets much over 20 PSI
2021-06-22T18:30:30 < bitmask> and when I shut the pump off it drops down to zero
2021-06-22T18:30:39 < bitmask> it shouldnt drop at all
2021-06-22T18:30:43 < bitmask> i wonder if a check valve would fix it
2021-06-22T18:31:05 < bitmask> and if it fixes the dropping maybe it would fix the low pressure limit
2021-06-22T18:39:35 < bitmask> well, check valve ordered, wish me luck
2021-06-22T18:42:44 < qyx> are you using those weird 1/4" push couplings?
2021-06-22T18:42:49 < bitmask> yup
2021-06-22T18:42:54 < bitmask> they work great
2021-06-22T18:43:09 < qyx> yeah except they are weird
2021-06-22T18:43:16 < bitmask> hah i guess
2021-06-22T18:43:17 < qyx> because we use 6 mm or 8 mm
2021-06-22T18:43:55 < qyx> for pneumatics mostly though
2021-06-22T18:44:01 < bitmask> ahh
2021-06-22T18:45:40 < bitmask> hmm, i have a flow restrictor with an arrow on it, think it stops flow going the other way?
2021-06-22T18:46:38 < bitmask> guess I can try it
2021-06-22T18:49:28 < Ecco> jpa-: what, for example?
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2021-06-22T18:52:22 < bitmask> nope doesnt work
2021-06-22T18:52:43 < bitmask> so i guess this project is on hold for a few days until the part arrives
2021-06-22T18:52:50 < bitmask> cloud chamber is up next
2021-06-22T18:55:47 < jpa-> Ecco: at least a bunch of transistors connected to unswitched Vdd rail :)
2021-06-22T18:56:07 < jpa-> looks like STM32H725 does not have much except IWDG that is powered in standby but not in vbat
2021-06-22T18:58:13 < jpa-> and LSI
2021-06-22T19:01:11 < englishman> cool, i got into business school.
2021-06-22T19:02:59 < bitmask> congrats
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2021-06-22T19:52:13 < englishman> kakium69: https://www.varusteleka.com/en/page/midsummer-bingo/24765
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2021-06-22T21:05:12 < Xogium> ok, this is OT, but can anyone explain wth they thought when making this ?
2021-06-22T21:05:31 < Xogium> adafruit provides circuit python build for seeeduino xiao board
2021-06-22T21:06:03 < Xogium> the firmware is 363 KB ! Huh… Guys ? There's just 256 KB in case you forgot
2021-06-22T21:06:41 < BrainDamage> can it chainload from flash?
2021-06-22T21:07:01 < Xogium> I honestly have no iddea
2021-06-22T21:07:04 < Xogium> *idea
2021-06-22T21:07:11 < Xogium> but like
2021-06-22T21:07:22 < Xogium> it's a uf2 firmware, for the u2 bootloader
2021-06-22T21:07:29 < Xogium> *uf2
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2021-06-22T21:07:57 < Xogium> my understanding was you're meant to flash that, somehow
2021-06-22T21:10:02 < Xogium> ah, and while I'm at it, can someone figure where the reset button or pins or whatever they expose on the xiao expantion board is ? I've been trying to find it for the past 15 minutes by touch alone and I have no success :D
2021-06-22T21:11:00 < Xogium> I suppose it's in an image on the wiki, but, yeah
2021-06-22T21:11:10 < Laurenceb_> arggg fuck windozer ten
2021-06-22T21:11:18 < Laurenceb_> this make lunix look good
2021-06-22T21:11:23 < Xogium> https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Seeeduino-XIAO-Expansion-Board/
2021-06-22T21:11:28 < Xogium> if anyone wants to check
2021-06-22T21:11:29 < Laurenceb_> entire pc randomly rebooted, killing my work
2021-06-22T21:11:38 < machinehum> Shocker
2021-06-22T21:11:48 < Xogium> Laurenceb_: update do that in windows 10
2021-06-22T21:12:20 < Laurenceb_> yeah the absolute state
2021-06-22T21:12:46 < Laurenceb_> it wasnt an update it was photo viewer trying to load graphs as they were being updated
2021-06-22T21:13:05 < Laurenceb_> I used to arrow keys while a script was redrawing graphs
2021-06-22T21:13:06 < Xogium> then again… Updates always did that before, I still remember having to click on reboot later every 5 god damn minutes in win xp
2021-06-22T21:13:22 < Laurenceb_> it look down the graphics driver and pc rebooted
2021-06-22T21:13:33 < Laurenceb_> literally way worse than lunix
2021-06-22T21:13:39 < Xogium> ah yeah… Got to love those hard lockup
2021-06-22T21:14:47 < Xogium> ugh so, where in the world is that reset button they speak of, anyway ?
2021-06-22T21:15:01 < Laurenceb_> >microshart managed to make graphics drivers crash harder than lunix
2021-06-22T21:15:19 < Xogium> that's not too hard though is it ? :p
2021-06-22T21:15:38 < Laurenceb_> well they have full documentation from nvidia...
2021-06-22T21:16:41 < qyx> Xogium: hold the board with the XIAO module up facing to you
2021-06-22T21:16:46 < qyx> so the usb-c us facin upwards
2021-06-22T21:17:25 < qyx> reset button is a right angle tact switch on the left side of the PCB first from top
2021-06-22T21:17:42 < qyx> going down, a buzzer follows
2021-06-22T21:17:53 < qyx> then two 4-pin JST connectors or whatever are they
2021-06-22T21:18:08 < qyx> and on the bottom left, facing left, theres a "user button"
2021-06-22T21:18:34 < Xogium> hmm
2021-06-22T21:18:37 < Xogium> I see
2021-06-22T21:18:43 < qyx> on the right side going from top, there is a "battery switch" and two 4 pin connectors
2021-06-22T21:18:48 < BrainDamage> :O
2021-06-22T21:19:27 < Xogium> well huh the good news is I found those buttons
2021-06-22T21:20:01 < Xogium> the bad news is I pressed them twice both, and I see no magical usb drive popping out of nowhere on my pc :D
2021-06-22T21:21:43 < Xogium> this sounds like a rocky start off into the arduino world :D
2021-06-22T21:23:31 < Xogium> maybe my type c can only do power but not data
2021-06-22T21:23:32 < BrainDamage> does it enumerate at least?
2021-06-22T21:23:36 < Xogium> yeah
2021-06-22T21:23:44 < Xogium> as a ttyACM0 device
2021-06-22T21:24:04 < BrainDamage> so it works in serial, you have to reboot to dfu mode
2021-06-22T21:24:08 < qyx> so it probably isn't in a bootloader mode
2021-06-22T21:24:21 < Xogium> yeah that's what I'm trying to make it do
2021-06-22T21:24:23 < qyx> press the user button and connect
2021-06-22T21:24:25 < qyx> maybe
2021-06-22T21:24:42 < qyx> oh SAMD21
2021-06-22T21:24:44 < BrainDamage> Step 3. Entering the DFU bootloader mode by press the reset button twice quickly on the XIAO expansion board, then your PC will appear Arduino drive.
2021-06-22T21:24:59 < BrainDamage> chinglish included
2021-06-22T21:25:00 < Xogium> on the seeed wiki they talk about short the rst pin twice, or in the case of expantion, press twice I suppose
2021-06-22T21:25:29 < Xogium> yeah it's very badly written, for sure
2021-06-22T21:25:50 < BrainDamage> watch dmesg for events
2021-06-22T21:25:51 < Xogium> so my only thery at this point is I have a type c cable that can't transfer data
2021-06-22T21:26:05 < BrainDamage> then it wouldn't even appear as serial
2021-06-22T21:26:12 < Xogium> yep I have it in --follow mode and litterally nothing happens
2021-06-22T21:26:38 < BrainDamage> if you issue reset once, it should at least enumerate again in serial mode
2021-06-22T21:27:01 < Xogium> absolutely no reaction
2021-06-22T21:27:07 < Xogium> it's a dead button
2021-06-22T21:27:37 < BrainDamage> does lsbusb lists it?
2021-06-22T21:27:52 < BrainDamage> the ttyacm could be another device
2021-06-22T21:28:22 < Xogium> Bus 001 Device 013: ID 2886:802f Seeed Technology Co., Ltd. Seeed femto M0
2021-06-22T21:28:54 < Xogium> and nah the ttyACM0 shows up directly when I plug it
2021-06-22T21:29:30 < BrainDamage> ok, so the device enumerates correctly, but reset doesn't work
2021-06-22T21:29:42 < Xogium> pretty much
2021-06-22T21:29:55 < Xogium> for all I know it's not even exposed properly lol
2021-06-22T21:30:17 < Xogium> seeed is not a major crap vendor in my experience, but
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2021-06-22T21:31:20 < Xogium> it could also be that I just got a defective unit
2021-06-22T21:31:31 < Xogium> other than that… I don't know :S
2021-06-22T21:36:07 < Xogium> I asked a pair of working eyes to look at it
2021-06-22T21:36:15 < Xogium> there's a green led fixed
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2021-06-22T21:36:30 < Xogium> a green led that blinks more or less randomly but relatively fast
2021-06-22T21:36:36 < Xogium> and an orange that slow blinks
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2021-06-22T21:36:51 < Xogium> but it always slow blink
2021-06-22T21:36:59 < Xogium> like maybe once a second
2021-06-22T21:41:10 < qyx> how do you know it blinks? O_o
2021-06-22T21:42:40 < Xogium> my buddy made the pass it blinks at on my shoulder lol
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2021-06-22T21:44:05 < bitmask> haha jesus, setting up this airbrush equipment takes fucking forever, i need a workshop
2021-06-22T21:44:12 < bitmask> i dont even wanna try it now :P
2021-06-22T21:46:10 < Xogium> but my understanding is this orange led is supposed to flicker and light up only when you press the reset button
2021-06-22T21:46:15 < Xogium> maybe have it wrong
2021-06-22T21:46:28 < Xogium> but here it always blink
2021-06-22T21:53:04 < englishman> replacing OPA376
2021-06-22T21:53:15 < englishman> need: very low offset, low drift
2021-06-22T21:53:22 < englishman> OPA388 has huge offset, no go
2021-06-22T21:53:32 < englishman> LTC2050HV offset is too large as well
2021-06-22T21:53:43 < englishman> OPA392 looks good but only available next month
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2021-06-22T22:43:56 < BrainDamage> https://i.redd.it/7l4j5074lm671.jpg
2021-06-22T23:00:04 < Xogium> well I can't get this thing to show up at all aside from the first time I plug it in
2021-06-22T23:08:02 < bitmask> well... heres the last/only time this thing will be clean: https://i.imgur.com/i16j9Jt.png?1
2021-06-22T23:09:27 < Xogium> I'm not even sure how to flash code ot it to make the buzzer go off or something lol it turns out the typical arduino IDE isn't accessible to blind people, because they removed the entire accessibility stack in their bundled java install
2021-06-22T23:09:44 < Xogium> I'm honestly starting to regret arduino ;)
2021-06-22T23:13:55 < Xogium> hmm maybe this arduino-cli thingy
2021-06-22T23:14:40 < t4nk_freenode> hehe, so I made a wise choice by never using arduino in the first place :)
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2021-06-22T23:19:32 < Xogium> t4nk_freenode: yep. I merely got one because I was curious
2021-06-22T23:20:26 < t4nk_freenode> somehow I knew when it all hyped up, that I needed to get away from it ;)
2021-06-22T23:21:34 < t4nk_freenode> I had to install arduino ide though, the other day
2021-06-22T23:21:55 < bitmask> any airbrushers in here?
2021-06-22T23:22:28 < BrainDamage> do you need to perk up your tits in the portfolio album?
2021-06-22T23:22:35 < t4nk_freenode> hehe
2021-06-22T23:23:11 < BrainDamage> I just use a large plastic sheet, mask, and spray outdoors
2021-06-22T23:23:28 < BrainDamage> way simpler than bothering with paintboxes
2021-06-22T23:23:47  * t4nk_freenode lets all tits fly freely, and restricts himself to watching them in trees
2021-06-22T23:24:18 < bitmask> im just wondering if i should start with a 0.5mm nozzle or the standard 0.35 already on it cause im just applying a base coat
2021-06-22T23:25:12 < BrainDamage> the small one gives a finer mist, it's slower but more uniform
2021-06-22T23:25:26 < BrainDamage> if your surface isn't big, just always use the smaller
2021-06-22T23:25:29 < BrainDamage> less efforts
2021-06-22T23:25:52 < bitmask> yea i'll just try the smaller one first since its in there
2021-06-22T23:26:08 < bitmask> although maybe i should take the brush apart while its clean so i know how to do it when its dirty
2021-06-22T23:26:24 < bitmask> ehh fuck it, yolo
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2021-06-22T23:27:45 < BrainDamage> unscrew the cap and drop everything in a bucket with solvent is my goto solution
2021-06-22T23:29:11 < BrainDamage> oh and operate the trigger once or twice when it's theree
2021-06-22T23:32:38 < bitmask> alright, compressor on, tiny tank filled, trying 25 psi to start i guess
2021-06-22T23:32:48 < bitmask> now i gotta figure out paint
2021-06-22T23:35:21 < bitmask> oh the paint says 22 psi
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2021-06-22T23:35:41 < bitmask> but its also saying that for a hvlp
2021-06-22T23:35:45 < BrainDamage> do you have a piece of polytyrene?
2021-06-22T23:35:52 < BrainDamage> polystyrene
2021-06-22T23:35:59 < BrainDamage> the packing foam thingy
2021-06-22T23:36:06 < bitmask> not sure why
2021-06-22T23:36:21 < BrainDamage> spray a meter or two away from it
2021-06-22T23:36:42 < BrainDamage> and see if paint sticks or starts melting instead
2021-06-22T23:36:59 < bitmask> i see
2021-06-22T23:37:02 < BrainDamage> if it's melting, it means the solvent isn't evaporating
2021-06-22T23:37:12 < bitmask> a meter or two though? thats really far
2021-06-22T23:37:27 < BrainDamage> polystyrene is pretty delicate
2021-06-22T23:37:36 < BrainDamage> that's why it makes it very visible
2021-06-22T23:38:51 < bitmask> you use a respirator when spraying?
2021-06-22T23:38:59 < BrainDamage> also, the bonus is that if it's melting, you can scoop it, light on fire, and throw on some vietcong warriors since it's cheemcally very close to napalm
2021-06-22T23:39:12 < bitmask> ha
2021-06-22T23:39:40 < BrainDamage> yes, I don't enjoy breathing solvent
2021-06-22T23:39:56 < BrainDamage> I mean, some people do recreationally
2021-06-22T23:40:00 < BrainDamage> maybe mawk
2021-06-22T23:40:03 < BrainDamage> I don't
2021-06-22T23:40:14 < bitmask> heh i wanna know how well my booth works
2021-06-22T23:42:10 < bitmask> do you put the lid on the cup after you fill it or is that just when you're done?
2021-06-22T23:45:08 < Laurenceb_> People who produce sperm may do so at different levels across space and time, within and between individuals, and much of that variation may be non-pathological. As a result, we are able to approach questions about the developmental, cross-sectional, and health contexts of sperm production with curiosity about and concern for the well-being of all people who produce sperm, across geographic categories and racial and ethnic lines.
2021-06-22T23:45:57 < zyp> Laurenceb_, take the shitposting back to freenode
2021-06-22T23:48:22 < qyx> BrainDamage: whats close to napalm, a polystyrene melting in a solvent on fire?
2021-06-22T23:48:54 < BrainDamage> bitmask: after filling, solvent is volatile
2021-06-22T23:49:05 < BrainDamage> qyx: yes
2021-06-22T23:49:43 < qyx> good to kno
2021-06-22T23:49:44 < qyx> w
2021-06-22T23:50:07 < BrainDamage> it's good to know because you can make it accidentally
2021-06-22T23:50:25 < BrainDamage> and that shit will stick to everything and burn for minutes
2021-06-22T23:52:53 < Xogium> well the good news is that, it's apparently just the reset that doesn't work on this xiao
2021-06-22T23:53:14 < Xogium> I uploaded the demo buzzer song on my arduino
2021-06-22T23:53:23 < Xogium> and it works
2021-06-22T23:53:51 < Xogium> but the problem is well, no way to reset or go into bootloader mode to use circuit python or micropython
2021-06-22T23:54:59 < bitmask> hmm this paint is very thin, it might not need thinning at all
2021-06-22T23:55:17 < bitmask> its like milk 
2021-06-22T23:55:36 < Xogium> so I just could confirm that the reset button just doesn't do a thing
2021-06-22T23:55:59 < Xogium> I pressed it while it was in the midle of playing happy birthday, and it didn't stop playing
--- Day changed Wed Jun 23 2021
2021-06-23T00:06:18 < Xogium> hmm. I think if I want to reset it without the button I have to short 2 pads on the usb type c connector. Gonna be tricky since I can't feel anything but smooth metal
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2021-06-23T00:12:36 < Xogium> apparently there's 2 gold pads on the left side of the connector
2021-06-23T00:13:21 < Xogium> but the space is reduced so much by them being awefully small and by the expantion board below, that I risk more shorting other pins than the one I intended to short
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2021-06-23T00:28:52 < bitmask> BrainDamage if im getting a grainy texture would adding airbrush flow improver keep it from drying so fast?
2021-06-23T00:30:15 < karlp> BrainDamage: what's the story with that spiderweb?!
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2021-06-23T01:39:57 < zyp> karlp, looks like it went through a bilinear transform
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2021-06-23T12:26:09 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-06-23T12:26:20  * Laurenceb is working on hyperloop telemetry
2021-06-23T12:26:49 < Laurenceb> I have Berkeley DB running, but it uses plaintext over tcp sockets to transfer data
2021-06-23T12:27:00 < Laurenceb> is there any way to add encryption? VPN?
2021-06-23T12:27:29 < karlp> imagine running a 40 year old software stack and looking for the encryption knobs...
2021-06-23T12:27:55 < karlp> but sure, a common way of wrapping old stuff is just put it all on a "vpn" of some description
2021-06-23T12:28:37 < karlp> be that something like stunnel or socksify, or something more like wireguard/openvpn
2021-06-23T12:29:25 < Laurenceb> hmm ok thanks, I'll read about them
2021-06-23T12:29:45 < Laurenceb> stunnel looks interesting
2021-06-23T12:30:08 < ventyl> does BDB have any tcp communication implemented on its own, or Laurenceb was simply lazy to wrap it into SSL tunnel?
2021-06-23T12:30:26 < ventyl> IIRC, user has to provide means of network communication
2021-06-23T12:30:32 < karlp> it probably grew tcp as a a dro pin replacement for uds?
2021-06-23T12:31:15 < Laurenceb> ventyl: aiui there are some versions with tcp sockets
2021-06-23T12:31:26 < Laurenceb> hmm it supports database encryption
2021-06-23T12:31:39 < Laurenceb> but the comms could still in theory be screwed with
2021-06-23T12:32:53 < ventyl> i remember implementing TCP layer on my own. I just got messages I had to transfer
2021-06-23T12:33:07 < Laurenceb> https://pypi.org/project/berkeleydb/
2021-06-23T12:33:19 < Laurenceb> >Complete support for Oracle Berkeley DB Replication Manager. Complete support for Oracle Berkeley DB Base Replication.
2021-06-23T12:34:05 < ventyl> replication manager is just a transaction processor, it doesn't implement communication on it's own
2021-06-23T12:34:11 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-23T12:34:38 < ventyl> there's an API to read / write messages from/to it, register peers with RM & stuff
2021-06-23T12:34:50 < ventyl> but *you* have to implement network layer
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2021-06-23T12:38:09 < Laurenceb> https://docs.oracle.com/database/bdb181/html/api_reference/C/reptransport.html
2021-06-23T12:40:22 < Xogium> so, for everyone that tried to help with the xiao yesterday, I tricked it
2021-06-23T12:40:32 < Laurenceb> stunnel looks perfect
2021-06-23T12:41:02 < Xogium> dirty, but it worked
2021-06-23T12:41:03 < Xogium> http://ix.io/3qQ3
2021-06-23T12:41:28 < Xogium> this forces to put in bootloader mode
2021-06-23T12:44:26 < ventyl> Laurenceb: if you need just one way "gimme all your data" synchronization, then it is sufficient to copy database + logs via rsync onto another node and then run catastrophic recovery there
2021-06-23T12:44:38 < ventyl> the only requirement is that copy must be made in 4K blocks
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2021-06-23T12:48:53 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: IPSec has the encryption mode where it's not even a VPN, it just encrypts all traffic, no special routing arrangements needed.
2021-06-23T12:49:03 < PaulFertser> Apps do not need to know anything about it.
2021-06-23T12:49:19 < rajkosto> i hate that mode, its never actually clearly defined how you use it
2021-06-23T12:49:26 < rajkosto> i hate ipsec kernel stacks in general
2021-06-23T12:49:45 < rajkosto> user mode vpns make it a lot easier to reason about routing/filtering/firewalling because of the virtual interfaces they make
2021-06-23T12:50:16 < PaulFertser> rajkosto: with ipsec in transport mode you do not need to reason about that, that's my point.
2021-06-23T12:50:26 < rajkosto> you mean "opportunistic ipsec" ?
2021-06-23T12:50:28 < rajkosto> what even supports that
2021-06-23T12:51:33 < PaulFertser> I mean transport mode.
2021-06-23T12:53:24 < Laurenceb> hmm I've spotted another issue maybe
2021-06-23T12:53:39 < PaulFertser> Everything supports it btw.
2021-06-23T12:53:44 < Laurenceb> if I need to use ip addresses then its need static ip
2021-06-23T12:54:26 < PaulFertser> https://blog.sprinternet.at/2016/03/ipsec-transport-mode-with-strongswan-on-debian-jessie/
2021-06-23T12:56:16 < PaulFertser> You can use it with right=%any too, https://www.strongswan.org/testing/testresults/ikev2/trap-any/
2021-06-23T12:57:59 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah I could just bittorrent the whole database file
2021-06-23T13:16:06 < Laurenceb> lots of easy ways to do this
2021-06-23T13:24:35 < karlp> yet here you are... :)
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2021-06-23T13:44:22 < Laurenceb>  *windozer intensifies*
2021-06-23T13:44:28 < Laurenceb> now I cant type in outlook
2021-06-23T13:44:44 < Laurenceb> moar bugs than lunix
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2021-06-23T14:25:09 < Steffanx> I still think its you Laurenceb 
2021-06-23T14:25:28 < englishman> how does apple watch work?
2021-06-23T14:25:37 < englishman> does it absolutely require a iPhone?
2021-06-23T14:25:41 < karlp> magnets...
2021-06-23T14:25:52 < englishman> or can you use it standalone
2021-06-23T14:26:59 < englishman> are there any other consumer smart watches that we could develop for that aren't pieces of shit, and will be available for 5+ years?
2021-06-23T14:29:05 < Steffanx> I recall it pretty needs an iPhone. 
2021-06-23T14:29:13 < Steffanx> Or it'll be crippled and shitty
2021-06-23T14:29:20 < Steffanx> Pretty much*
2021-06-23T14:32:10 < Steffanx> Don't you have an iPhone, englishman ?
2021-06-23T14:32:16 < englishman> so if we develop for it, the market is for iPhone people and not necessarily someone who can spend $500 on a wrist mounted display
2021-06-23T14:32:30 < Steffanx> Soon you'll be a business guy. A business guy has an iphond
2021-06-23T14:32:53 < englishman> well, if I want customers to use a wrist mounted display with Bluetooth, what options are there
2021-06-23T14:33:11 < englishman> if we develop our own it won't be as food as an apple watch
2021-06-23T14:33:15 < englishman> good*
2021-06-23T14:33:23 < Steffanx> I'm sure hockaday has a project for you
2021-06-23T14:33:32 < englishman> not interested in garbage
2021-06-23T14:33:40 < Steffanx> Damnit. I cannot type anymore. Hackaday 
2021-06-23T14:34:15 < englishman> I want a useful display for someone who is working with both hands
2021-06-23T14:34:37 < englishman> a watch sounds pretty obvious
2021-06-23T14:34:44 < specing> arm mounted phone?
2021-06-23T14:35:02 < englishman> idk phones are pretty big these days
2021-06-23T14:35:10 < specing> arm mounted small phone?
2021-06-23T14:35:25 < specing> what will the display display?
2021-06-23T14:35:40 < englishman> measurements
2021-06-23T14:35:46 < englishman> and also do logging
2021-06-23T14:35:47 < specing> of what kind
2021-06-23T14:35:53 < englishman> laser parameters
2021-06-23T14:36:13 < specing> sounds verryyyy niche
2021-06-23T14:36:14 < PaulFertser> englishman: pinetime has it for cheap and it doesn't seem to be too crappy.
2021-06-23T14:36:17 < englishman> yes
2021-06-23T14:37:10 < Laurenceb> arggg the absolute state of web75.0
2021-06-23T14:37:11 < karlp> englishman: this is what the "industry" people are using AR glasses for...
2021-06-23T14:37:20 < Laurenceb> arggg the absolute state of web75.0
2021-06-23T14:37:27 < karlp> and "you just pay"
2021-06-23T14:38:15 < Laurenceb> >Docker
2021-06-23T14:39:05 < PaulFertser> Seriously, what's wrong with PineTime for this purpose?
2021-06-23T14:39:11 < Laurenceb> >Digital Ocean >plotly >restful api 
2021-06-23T14:39:19 < Laurenceb> just send the binary codez already
2021-06-23T14:39:29 < Laurenceb> ffs
2021-06-23T14:41:40 < Laurenceb> oh god
2021-06-23T14:41:43 < Laurenceb> >javashit
2021-06-23T14:42:10 < Steffanx> Is 2021 you know?
2021-06-23T14:42:13 < Steffanx> Its*
2021-06-23T14:45:11 < PaulFertser> Pinetime doesn't have wireless charging, but other than that, as a cheap useful hand-mounted display seems to be a fine fit.
2021-06-23T14:45:41 < Laurenceb> we just needed a data storage/archiving system for a few kB/s of data from multiple sources
2021-06-23T14:46:37 < Laurenceb> faceberg it is not
2021-06-23T14:50:00 < Laurenceb> this is pure insanity, why did we have to hire a "Devops" freelancer
2021-06-23T14:56:08 < englishman> karlp: we had considered that too.
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2021-06-23T14:56:24 < englishman> is there something off the shelf? we had kinda sorta designed our own at one point
2021-06-23T14:56:42 < karlp> no idea sorry, I've only seen it in promo shit.
2021-06-23T14:56:47 < englishman> hehe
2021-06-23T14:57:08 < englishman> it especially makes sense in a laser lab where you have to wear lab-specific eyepro anyway
2021-06-23T14:57:23 < karlp> like, it totally seems legit for like mechanics to just have AR glasses or anything where you need goggles already
2021-06-23T14:57:25 < karlp> yeah..
2021-06-23T14:57:31 < englishman> yeah
2021-06-23T14:57:46 < karlp> it's like delivery dudes custom tablet shit.
2021-06-23T14:57:55 < karlp> it's ok if it's fully commercial, but forget about retailing it.
2021-06-23T14:58:04 < englishman> but it turns out everything a) sucks even for displaying a couple numbers or b) costs 20k
2021-06-23T14:58:44 < englishman> so we started a design in-house but it stalled due to lack of specific criteria.... prototype was ok
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2021-06-23T15:32:27 < Laurenceb> WEB 9001!!!
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2021-06-23T17:16:31 < BrainDamage> https://github.com/protocolbuffers/protobuf/issues/3028
2021-06-23T17:20:27 < englishman> come on tho
2021-06-23T17:20:32 < englishman> spaces in path with no quotes
2021-06-23T17:20:44 < englishman> that isn't a protobuf problem
2021-06-23T17:21:11 < BrainDamage> some of those are self inflicted
2021-06-23T17:21:16 < englishman> there are plenty of reason lunix is retarded but that isn't one of them
2021-06-23T17:21:29 < BrainDamage> thatt's on windows
2021-06-23T17:22:46 < englishman> yes
2021-06-23T17:29:57 < jpa-> it gets even crazier when you try to replicate protoc's path behavior in a custom plugin
2021-06-23T17:30:19 < jpa-> especially as they don't give the plugins access to the whole include path
2021-06-23T17:52:32 < mawk> I got protoc to work by just using --help
2021-06-23T17:52:44 < mawk> what is the guy's point
2021-06-23T17:52:50 < mawk> "I can't read documentation" maybe
2021-06-23T17:53:10 < mawk> or maybe protoc on windows is vastly different
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2021-06-23T17:55:36 < mawk> Laurenceb you are here thank god
2021-06-23T17:55:42 < mawk> Steffanx was afraid you'd never find the way
2021-06-23T17:55:58 < Laurenceb> lol ok
2021-06-23T18:01:37 < Steffanx> Wasn't me. Don't tell lies
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2021-06-23T18:09:40 < mawk> yes it was you Steffanx 
2021-06-23T18:09:47 < mawk> some guy came in and you asked if it was Laurenceb 
2021-06-23T18:09:55 < mawk> which means you missed him
2021-06-23T18:12:11 < englishman> that pinetime is actually pretty neat
2021-06-23T18:13:33 < englishman> too bad the hardware isnt opensores
2021-06-23T18:14:02 < PaulFertser> englishman: do you mean you want to be able to manufacture it yourself?
2021-06-23T18:14:10 < PaulFertser> Or just look at the schematics?
2021-06-23T18:14:21 < englishman> well anything we sell will be available for 10+ years
2021-06-23T18:14:40 < englishman> using an apple watch pretty much guarantees that. even if one model won't be available, the next gen will work
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2021-06-23T18:15:00 < englishman> i could see buying a pinewatch, then moving manufacturing in-house when they discontinue it
2021-06-23T18:15:01 < PaulFertser> englishman: the next gen might be incompatible with older phones
2021-06-23T18:16:46 < englishman> yeah i didn't know the apple watch was actually kind of dumb and needed a phone
2021-06-23T18:16:56 < englishman> sounds pretty useless
2021-06-23T18:17:02 < englishman> i thought it had 4g and shit
2021-06-23T18:19:39 < PaulFertser> I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to sublicense the design from Pine
2021-06-23T18:24:35 < PaulFertser> I'd say you can't count on consumer shit being available and usable for 10 years, especially not from Apple or Samsung.
2021-06-23T18:29:31 < PaulFertser> BTW, you have the schematics and if you have working software for pinetime you can recreate the PCB with relatively little effort. Designing a case would be a bit challenging probably but so would be manufacturing it even if you had the case files.
2021-06-23T18:36:55 < englishman> but then why bother copying something half-done
2021-06-23T18:38:16 < englishman> if we were to use an established system. and i'm talking about apple, not a samsung shit that changes every month. unless they discontinue their watch, which I don't think will happen as they have become the biggest watchmaker in the world, there will be a mostly-compatible apple watch product available for the next 10 years
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2021-06-23T19:37:17 < mawk> there's a new Monster® flavour
2021-06-23T19:37:23 < mawk> it tastes great
2021-06-23T19:37:31 < mawk> I hope they keep it for long like the mango one
2021-06-23T19:37:57 < mawk> butterfly something
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2021-06-23T19:56:46 < englishman> hmm, fixed my nixie clock
2021-06-23T19:56:51 < englishman> wifeishman had watered it
2021-06-23T19:56:59 < englishman> everything was OK but the 2L pcb had a short
2021-06-23T19:57:10 < englishman> one of the big output vias
2021-06-23T19:57:11 < englishman> nothing visible
2021-06-23T19:57:17 < englishman> had to cut the trace
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2021-06-23T20:27:57 < ventyl> brother's nixie has some unspecified failure
2021-06-23T20:39:38 < mawk> lol why did she water it englishman 
2021-06-23T20:39:41 < mawk> mistook for a plant?
2021-06-23T20:40:21 < englishman> it was a lil too close to a plant yeah
2021-06-23T20:43:01 < BrainDamage> I love VFD, but those are even more rare than nixie
2021-06-23T20:43:21 < ventyl> i am looking at piece of code which I wrote around a year ago and back then I thought how awesome it is
2021-06-23T20:43:30 < ventyl> now I would probably throw it out as a whole
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2021-06-23T20:46:20 < mawk> lol
2021-06-23T20:46:30 < englishman> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/174628321145
2021-06-23T20:46:31 < englishman> whoa
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2021-06-23T20:46:55 < mawk> dead beef
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2021-06-23T20:48:00 < englishman> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/253922954356
2021-06-23T20:48:24 < englishman> the tube ones look awesome
2021-06-23T20:48:31 < englishman> i thought they were expensive
2021-06-23T20:48:46 < englishman> but they're around the same price as nixies
2021-06-23T20:50:10 < englishman> Please note - the IV-18 tube is not included with this listing.
2021-06-23T20:50:12 < englishman> oh fuck off
2021-06-23T20:50:32 < englishman> lol they're only $5
2021-06-23T20:50:37 < englishman> even cheaper than nixies
2021-06-23T20:50:59 < ventyl> Uf = 3.15, If = 162mA
2021-06-23T20:51:24 < ventyl> ah, there are some other voltages at around 35V
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2021-06-23T21:05:25 < machinehum> englishman: Maxim still sucks right?
2021-06-23T21:05:39 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-06-23T21:06:12 < englishman> maxim rules
2021-06-23T21:06:18 < englishman> but you can't buy any
2021-06-23T21:06:26 < machinehum> ergo
2021-06-23T21:06:28 < machinehum> They suck
2021-06-23T21:06:34 < englishman> ergo maxim > u
2021-06-23T21:07:04 < machinehum> Lots of their dev kits are available on digikey? Just desolder and use those bits?
2021-06-23T21:11:34 < BrainDamage> englishman: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264819843889
2021-06-23T21:11:37 < BrainDamage> I might buy this
2021-06-23T21:11:46 < englishman> whoa cool
2021-06-23T21:12:25 < englishman> looks straight out of a 90s jap stereo
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2021-06-23T21:52:00 < bitmask> oh amazon, youre killing me
2021-06-23T22:01:32 < Steffanx> Special music for bitmask: 
2021-06-23T22:01:35 < Steffanx> https://youtu.be/H4O81IHisPo
2021-06-23T22:20:28 < bitmask> i dont like the thumbnail
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2021-06-23T22:37:24 < englishman> MSP420 out of stock
2021-06-23T22:37:27 < englishman> there goes the planet
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2021-06-23T22:49:49 < Steffanx> its classic 90s music, so it must be good bitmask
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2021-06-23T23:53:31 < qyx> our foxconn is expanding
2021-06-23T23:53:52 < qyx> maybe they will make some msp430s
--- Day changed Thu Jun 24 2021
2021-06-24T00:14:57 < machinehum> https://nypost.com/2021/06/23/john-mcafee-dies-by-suicide-inside-prison-in-barcelona/
2021-06-24T00:14:59 < machinehum> RIP to the king
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2021-06-24T00:23:17 < kakium69> nightium
2021-06-24T00:28:03 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-24T00:35:24 < kakium69> Paulium
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2021-06-24T00:52:37 < zyp> kakium69, https://twitter.com/enjoy_digital/status/1407010715806937093
2021-06-24T00:53:22 < kakium69> *slurps*
2021-06-24T00:53:41  * kakium69 breathes heavily
2021-06-24T00:54:03 < Steffanx> Keep it in the pants
2021-06-24T00:54:16 < kakium69> is that official lattice board?
2021-06-24T01:03:08 < karlp> I shared that here didn't I? for kaks? or did I share it somewhere else? I thought of kaks the instant I saw it :)
2021-06-24T01:03:27 < karlp> ah no, sorry, I shared this one: https://twitter.com/enjoy_digital/status/1407261082004164612
2021-06-24T01:03:35 < karlp> I think it's the same board though :)
2021-06-24T01:03:55 < zyp> must have missed it
2021-06-24T01:04:30 < BrainDamage> I also shared www.hitechglobal.com/Accessories/PCIE_EndPoint_SMA_Breakout.htm about a week ago
2021-06-24T01:04:58 < karlp> yeah, that one was rad :)
2021-06-24T01:05:14 < karlp> I thought maybe I shared it on freenode or something and it got missed.
2021-06-24T01:05:16  * karlp shrugs
2021-06-24T01:05:42 < karlp> not like I got anything of my own to share...
2021-06-24T01:06:21 < kakium69> someone who made that lattice board
2021-06-24T01:06:36 < kakium69> definitelly saw my shit
2021-06-24T01:06:49 < BrainDamage> you should apply for a designer position
2021-06-24T01:07:05 < BrainDamage> you can even give prior art as portfolio
2021-06-24T01:07:22 < karlp> englishman: how much faith do you really have in apple over 10 years?
2021-06-24T01:07:40 < karlp> what sort of 10 years are you hoping for? 
2021-06-24T01:07:57 < karlp> the purchased hardware keeps working and can be delivered updates or what?
2021-06-24T01:08:16 < kakium69> BrainDamage: nobody is hiring pcb artists
2021-06-24T01:08:50 < BrainDamage> no, he wants to sell new units with updated hw
2021-06-24T01:09:13 < BrainDamage> so that his product isn't obsoleted by component sourcing
2021-06-24T01:09:29 < BrainDamage> as in, the smartwatch would be a component to source
2021-06-24T01:09:43 < karlp> it's gotta be a software project through right?
2021-06-24T01:10:18 < BrainDamage> I guess sw + external hw
2021-06-24T01:10:35 < BrainDamage> he said a visor to display some measurements for people who have both hands busy
2021-06-24T01:10:48 < BrainDamage> so the hw would send infos and the watch would display
2021-06-24T01:18:21 < bitmask> why are there no standard air chuck / schrader valve to BSP converters
2021-06-24T01:18:32 < bitmask> its all npt
2021-06-24T01:18:57 < kakium69> bsp is for waters
2021-06-24T01:19:11 < bitmask> well its what my airbrush uses
2021-06-24T01:19:40 < kakium69> airbrush and schrader valve?
2021-06-24T01:19:50 < kakium69> need a pic to understand wth is going on
2021-06-24T01:20:20 < bitmask> well i got this refillable spray bottle that has a schrader valve, my airbrush air compressor uses bsp
2021-06-24T01:20:50 < bitmask> i did find this... but nz
2021-06-24T01:20:51 < bitmask> https://www.coolingequipment.co.nz/products/category/XTVICNEY-access-valves/56-0402
2021-06-24T01:21:05 < bitmask> and actually i want female bsp
2021-06-24T01:21:48 < bitmask> i guess i'll just get a npt to bsp adapter
2021-06-24T01:22:05 < bitmask> and have adapter after adapter after adapter after adapter after adapter after adapter after adapter
2021-06-24T01:22:09 < kakium69> yes
2021-06-24T01:22:47 < kakium69> just force it ;)
2021-06-24T01:22:50 < bitmask> ha
2021-06-24T01:23:16 < kakium69> I think I have forced some shit
2021-06-24T01:24:35 < kakium69> "this thread is not this thread but it kinda fits - lets fuse them together"
2021-06-24T01:24:40 < bitmask> im not forcing it on something that costs money
2021-06-24T01:24:58 < bitmask> and that uses interchangeable parts
2021-06-24T01:25:44 < kakium69> usually it requires significant force too so it needs to be clamped and have such surfaces that can be clamped
2021-06-24T01:27:05 < BrainDamage> fwiw you can make a shrader thread by just taking a plastic tube and screwing inside a hot shrader connector
2021-06-24T01:27:31 < bitmask> or i can just use an adapter :)
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2021-06-24T03:11:18 < mawk> johnny died 
2021-06-24T03:11:23 < mawk> johnny mcafee
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2021-06-24T04:51:31 < octorian> Don't think I've rambled much in here yet...  Seems to be quiet right now.
2021-06-24T04:53:00 < octorian> So today I was reminded of what I think is a configuration bug in STM CubeMX.
2021-06-24T04:53:43 < octorian> If you use it on the STM32L052K8, it seems to act as though EXTI interrupts on GPIO pins aren't a thing.
2021-06-24T04:54:23 < octorian> But on every other part I've tried, including the similar STM32L010 (that I have on a Nucelo board), GPIO interrupt configurations show up just fine.
2021-06-24T04:55:01 < octorian> Not sure if I missed some toggle somewhere.  (but configuring these interrupts in code, once I'm past Cube, works just fine and exactly as expected)
2021-06-24T04:59:09 < ColdKeyboard> Would any ST32WB be able to handle Bluetooth audio on RF side (basically headset) and then do I2S or even USB audio device on the other side?
2021-06-24T04:59:25 < ColdKeyboard> I'm curious if something like this is even possible with ST portfolio
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2021-06-24T07:45:20 < jpa-> ColdKeyboard: STM32WB seems to be BLE-only, so it would work only with devices that support the newer BLE Audio standard (as opposet to bluetooth classic headset profile)
2021-06-24T07:45:36 < jpa-> other than that, i think it should work fine for the purpose
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2021-06-24T13:11:36 < karlp> hrm, I thought I saw normal BT EDR stuff in the xamples
2021-06-24T13:12:12 < karlp> depending on the model you can do to 802.15.4 and thread and prop rf as well.
2021-06-24T13:15:18 < karlp> nah, can't see them, must have been looking elsewhere.
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2021-06-24T16:01:17 < mawk> octorian: maybe this part doesn't support EXTI interupt
2021-06-24T16:01:24 < mawk> also, not all gpio pins support it I think, have you checked them all?
2021-06-24T16:01:43 < mawk> what does the reference manual say
2021-06-24T16:05:13 < karlp> they've already said it actually works if you just configure it...
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2021-06-24T17:02:29 < octorian> mawk, The part definitely supports it. As I already said, I was able to configure it in code no-problem and it works. Its just CubeMX that pretends its not a thing.
2021-06-24T17:02:47 < mawk> well it wouldn't be the first cubemx bug octorian 
2021-06-24T17:03:06 < mawk> that software is a tapestry of bug patched together by the good will of a french intern at ST
2021-06-24T17:03:36 < mawk> if you generate a makefile with it, cubemx will corrupt it when you regenerate the project
2021-06-24T17:03:50 < mawk> it happens all the time to me, so I made a script to de-corrupt it everytime I generate it
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2021-06-24T17:04:20 < Laurenceb> anyone here ever used syncthing?
2021-06-24T17:04:28 < Laurenceb> is it possible to run it without a database?
2021-06-24T17:06:03 < funky> what database? it creates a folder with the info it needs.
2021-06-24T17:06:07 < funky> do you mean that?
2021-06-24T17:06:37 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-24T17:06:49 < Laurenceb> I'm just reading the documentation, it says it needs a database
2021-06-24T17:06:53 < Laurenceb> whatever that is
2021-06-24T17:07:06 < funky> I haven't seen any database. I run it on Android and Windows.
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2021-06-24T17:08:19 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-24T17:08:22 < Steffanx> I just installed it. Did clickerly click in a web ui and done
2021-06-24T17:08:29 < Laurenceb> I need to run it on a read only file system
2021-06-24T17:08:53 < Laurenceb> so a database file that gets rewritten would end badly
2021-06-24T17:09:04 < Streaker> how the fuck will you synchronize files on a read-only filesystem?
2021-06-24T17:09:10 < Steffanx> One way I guess
2021-06-24T17:09:15 < Streaker> oh ok
2021-06-24T17:09:33 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-24T17:09:34 < Steffanx> What's wrong with rsync something 
2021-06-24T17:09:49 < Laurenceb> hmm good question
2021-06-24T17:10:38 < Steffanx> Except for the standard "open sores" reply
2021-06-24T17:10:49 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-06-24T17:13:17 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: btw, rsnapshot uses rsync for incremental backups, stores identical files with hardlinks, supports rotation etc.
2021-06-24T17:13:39 < Laurenceb> ok
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2021-06-24T17:20:23 < englishman> Laurenceb: it should work, you'll just get some errors about being unable to create some folders
2021-06-24T17:20:32 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-24T17:20:49 < englishman> and - if the filesystem becomes disconnected, it will be treated as deleting all the files, so make sure you have backups
2021-06-24T17:20:52 < Laurenceb> I need it to run on hyperloop raspberry pi
2021-06-24T17:21:19 < Laurenceb> so zero maintenance and read only file system to stop emmc overwrites
2021-06-24T17:21:37 < Laurenceb> the synced directory will be external USB storage
2021-06-24T17:21:38 < englishman> surely shitberreypi has figured that out
2021-06-24T17:21:51 < Laurenceb> but I dont want to store database files on the external storage
2021-06-24T17:21:57 < Laurenceb> >Rpi
2021-06-24T17:21:59 < Laurenceb> >fixing shit
2021-06-24T17:22:10 < englishman> why not
2021-06-24T17:22:15 < englishman> they just go in a .folder
2021-06-24T17:22:21 < englishman> that's hidden
2021-06-24T17:22:27 < englishman> like git does
2021-06-24T17:22:34 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-24T17:22:43 < Laurenceb> I'd still worry about it getting corrupted
2021-06-24T17:22:55 < englishman> .stfolder I think
2021-06-24T17:23:14 < englishman> it'll be created at the receiving end as well
2021-06-24T17:23:29 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/2400
2021-06-24T17:23:31 < Laurenceb> uh oh
2021-06-24T17:27:59 < Laurenceb> wait there is a simple solution
2021-06-24T17:28:05 < Laurenceb> use a ramdisc for the database
2021-06-24T17:29:20 < Laurenceb> just might be a bit slow each time it boots, but theres not millions of files to sync so it should be fine
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2021-06-24T17:49:08 < Xogium> hmm so, if someone here happens to know, what are the letters after the main sufix in for example stm32mp151, there are the main a, d,c, f… etc
2021-06-24T17:49:26 < Xogium> but I saw bot FAD1 and FAB1 among other
2021-06-24T17:50:10 < zyp> temperature range and hardware crypto
2021-06-24T17:50:18 < Xogium> I tried to check via the product page and documents but I didn't find
2021-06-24T17:50:28 < Xogium> yes for c
2021-06-24T17:50:33 < Xogium> and f
2021-06-24T17:50:39 < zyp> a/c is -40..125, d/f is -20..105
2021-06-24T17:50:45 < Xogium> ah !
2021-06-24T17:51:00 < zyp> also a/d is without crypto and c/f is with
2021-06-24T17:51:11 < Xogium> makes sense
2021-06-24T17:51:23 < Xogium> so CAD1
2021-06-24T17:51:47 < zyp> it's in a table that's a picture, guess they hate screenreaders
2021-06-24T18:13:33 < Xogium> zyp: yeah or just didn't think one second about it… It's apparently hard for people to imagine blind people toying with computers let alone sbc
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2021-06-24T18:15:49 < ventyl> hm. i am puzzled. code which apparently shouldn't work, works
2021-06-24T18:17:07 < Xogium> huh, that's probably not normal
2021-06-24T18:17:47 < ventyl> this usually means, that I have overlooked some detail
2021-06-24T18:18:23 < alan_o> it's always some mundane detail
2021-06-24T18:18:34 < ventyl> like maybe that function is not even used at all
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 24 18:35:25 2021
--- Log opened Thu Jun 24 18:35:32 2021
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2021-06-24T18:56:57 < Laurenceb> hmm now I'm not sure if syncthing will actually work for my application
2021-06-24T18:57:44 < Laurenceb> if I have a logfile thats being written to gradually, would syncthing/resilio/whatever actually work fairly efficiently to copy over the new data?
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2021-06-24T19:08:59 < karlp> anyreason you can't have the writer roll over hourly or something?  
2021-06-24T19:09:16 < karlp> makes lots of this "just work" without any more wank
2021-06-24T19:09:58 < Laurenceb> sometimes the system might go offline for weeks at a time
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2021-06-24T19:10:24 < Laurenceb> all the backlogged data then has to be added to the server once it comes back within wifi coverage range
2021-06-24T19:10:47 < Laurenceb> which might only be a small part of the (physical) network
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2021-06-24T19:14:29 < englishman> isnt that exactly what rsync is for
2021-06-24T19:14:46 < englishman> which syncthing basically is, with a nice frontend
2021-06-24T19:15:41 < Laurenceb> will it work efficiently with ~2GB file that has 1k changed somewhere in the middle every 5 seconds?
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2021-06-24T19:34:53 < karlp> this is why you just make it not be 2GB files.... roll them over...
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2021-06-24T19:35:21 < Laurenceb> that could suffer from file system corruption
2021-06-24T19:35:34 < Laurenceb> unless I made the files pre allocated I guess...
2021-06-24T19:37:11 < karlp> what?
2021-06-24T19:37:29 < karlp> jsut myfile.iso8601intervalstart
2021-06-24T19:37:30 < Laurenceb> the system might lose power at any time
2021-06-24T19:37:42 < karlp> how does that change things?
2021-06-24T19:37:55 < karlp> you still have to write....
2021-06-24T19:38:02 < Laurenceb> creating and deleting files could cause corruption if it suddenly loses power
2021-06-24T19:38:07 < karlp> don't delete.
2021-06-24T19:38:12 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-24T19:38:12 < karlp> just make a new one every hour.
2021-06-24T19:38:27 < karlp> fuck deletion. you can delete things separately when you've consumed them if you wish.
2021-06-24T19:38:34 < Laurenceb> yeah thats kind of the same as what I was suggesting
2021-06-24T19:38:50 < karlp> except, like normal, instead of "preallocationg 2GB" or whatever you were talking of
2021-06-24T19:38:52 < Laurenceb> but then syncthing will need to generate a huge database in ramdisk
2021-06-24T19:39:03 < Laurenceb> for all the thousands of files
2021-06-24T19:39:05 < karlp> what now?!
2021-06-24T19:39:07 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-06-24T19:39:11 < Laurenceb> cant win with this
2021-06-24T19:39:23 < Laurenceb> DRBD doesnt look suitable
2021-06-24T19:39:25 < karlp> thousands of files with just a hash isn't going to be any meaningful amount of memory
2021-06-24T19:39:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-24T19:39:33 < karlp> thousands isn't very many, but it's a lot of hours..
2021-06-24T19:39:48 < Laurenceb> I cant see why it would be but there are bug reports for huge database use
2021-06-24T19:40:01 < Laurenceb> maybe thats pebkac
2021-06-24T19:40:16 < Laurenceb> it should be kB of database surely
2021-06-24T19:40:30 < Laurenceb> easily fits in ramdisc on rpi
2021-06-24T19:41:11 < karlp> check our my science scripting... https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gGoHv.png
2021-06-24T19:42:02 < Laurenceb> v nice
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2021-06-24T19:43:17 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/2148
2021-06-24T19:43:25 < Laurenceb> maybe windozer issue, and from ages ago anyway
2021-06-24T19:44:02 < Laurenceb> 30min for 8million files
2021-06-24T19:44:54 < Laurenceb> prob <20s for this application scaling that, so no issue
2021-06-24T19:49:38 < karlp> ifyou ahve 8milllion log files, you ahve other problems...
2021-06-24T19:51:34 < Laurenceb> All I'm saying is that a lab leak of the engineered virus bioweapon by the illuminati caused faster download speeds and spread a racist conspiracy theory
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2021-06-24T19:59:55 < Laurenceb> ok what the fuck
2021-06-24T19:59:58 < Laurenceb> https://www.thenigerianvoice.com/news/287224/coronavirusthe-illuminati-and-chinese-deadly-blow.html
2021-06-24T20:02:10 < mouseghost> Laurenceb, node_modules
2021-06-24T20:02:47 < Laurenceb> >node.js
2021-06-24T20:02:54 < Laurenceb> >javashit
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2021-06-24T20:12:48 < Steffanx> How does this work Laurenceb . You are allowed to spend £0 on hardware and waste millions on engineering hours?
2021-06-24T20:12:55 < Steffanx> Mr Laurenceb ?
2021-06-24T20:17:48 < Laurenceb> lol
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2021-06-24T20:22:44 < englishman> not to mention lack of any clear goal
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2021-06-24T20:26:43 < BrainDamage> laurenceb's job could be described as 'xy problem inventor'
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2021-06-24T21:14:40 < jpa-> BrainDamage: some are problem solvers, some are solution problematicers
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2021-06-24T21:23:11 < mawk> lol
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2021-06-25T01:09:24 < kakium69> I bought SLC SD-card
2021-06-25T01:09:31 < kakium69> I don't remember if I told you
2021-06-25T01:09:45 < kakium69> for raspberry pi
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2021-06-25T01:24:12 < kakium69> mkay
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2021-06-25T01:46:01 < kakium69> 69!
2021-06-25T01:54:22 < emeb> cue Bill & Ted
2021-06-25T01:55:35 < kakium69> I have not seen that movie
2021-06-25T01:56:15 < emeb> Ursa Major Space Station
2021-06-25T01:56:26 < emeb> oops - copypasta
2021-06-25T01:56:27 < emeb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYWT4uYOPvs
2021-06-25T01:57:07 < kakium69> should I watch the movie?
2021-06-25T01:57:42 < emeb> It's very much a thing of the late 80s. 
2021-06-25T01:57:53 < emeb> Depends on if you've got the stomach for that sort of thing.
2021-06-25T01:58:23 < kakium69> not really
2021-06-25T01:58:49 < emeb> But it's pretty strange to think that here we are 32 yrs later with Keanu and Alex getting old.
2021-06-25T01:59:08 < kakium69> sure
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2021-06-25T02:27:11 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW2LvQUcwqc
2021-06-25T02:27:32 < kakium69> world record of technical jargon
2021-06-25T02:31:15 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state of syncthing
2021-06-25T02:31:17 < Laurenceb_> amateur hour
2021-06-25T02:31:27 < Laurenceb_> >has 128k block size
2021-06-25T02:31:32 < kakium69> is syncthing good?
2021-06-25T02:31:47 < kakium69> is 128k good?
2021-06-25T02:31:48 < Laurenceb_> >hashes each block then sends entire block if single byte changes
2021-06-25T02:31:52 < Laurenceb_> its crap
2021-06-25T02:32:00 < Laurenceb_> like x10000 overhead
2021-06-25T02:32:09 < kakium69> ah poopoo
2021-06-25T02:32:13 < Laurenceb_> lol yeah
2021-06-25T02:32:21 < Laurenceb_> I could use lsyncd maybe
2021-06-25T02:32:43 < Laurenceb_> but thats still going to have a bit of lag
2021-06-25T02:32:52 < Laurenceb_> I'm tempted to make my own system with udp
2021-06-25T02:33:19 < kakium69> this is for hyperlooping?
2021-06-25T02:33:22 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2021-06-25T02:33:31 < Laurenceb_> for telemetry back to base
2021-06-25T02:33:32 < kakium69> operative systems?
2021-06-25T02:33:46 < kakium69> production operative systems?
2021-06-25T02:33:51 < Laurenceb_> its on raspberry pi compute modules
2021-06-25T02:33:53 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2021-06-25T02:34:01 < kakium69> for production use?
2021-06-25T02:34:06 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2021-06-25T02:34:36 < Laurenceb_> any sync system that cant get access to the filesystem internals is fundamentally crippled
2021-06-25T02:35:04 < kakium69> data is non-critical?
2021-06-25T02:35:12 < Laurenceb_> I guess that means either DRBD, Gluster, BindFS or something custom in the data write code
2021-06-25T02:35:25 < Laurenceb_> yeah its non safety (non immediate safety) telemetry
2021-06-25T02:35:46 < kakium69> goodgood
2021-06-25T02:35:47 < Laurenceb_> DRBD def cant do what I want
2021-06-25T02:36:07 < Laurenceb_> Gluster looks like both ends would need to be servers, it would prob work but overcomplex
2021-06-25T02:36:14 < Laurenceb_> time to look at BindFS
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2021-06-25T02:44:38 < Laurenceb_> hmm bindfs looks really simple but too simple
2021-06-25T02:44:44 < Laurenceb_> lol cant do tcp/ip
2021-06-25T02:44:51 < Laurenceb_> sheeettttt samba exists
2021-06-25T02:47:15 < Laurenceb_> lol they solved this problem years ago https://rsync.samba.org/tech_report/node2.html
2021-06-25T02:49:53 < Laurenceb_> unironically how will resilio and syncthing recover
2021-06-25T02:51:33 < Laurenceb_> lol its even optimised to reduce latency
2021-06-25T02:51:38 < Laurenceb_> utter annihilation
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2021-06-25T05:02:22 < Xogium> hah ! It looks like touch is the winner sometimes, for finding what is wrong with a board
2021-06-25T05:03:34 < Xogium> as it turned out, when my xiao was installed on top of the expantion board, 12 pins, not 14, were in. Which caused the pogo pins of the expantion to not rest straight under the usb port, and hence reset wasn't working
2021-06-25T05:04:45 < Xogium> they are the ones that replace the whole 'short the pads' idea
2021-06-25T05:05:40 < Xogium> but as it is right now it is funny because when I 
2021-06-25T05:06:26 < Xogium> when I put the usb in, it makes the very first note of the buzzer have some kind of weird osilating freq
2021-06-25T05:06:34 < Xogium> only the very first
2021-06-25T05:07:00 < Xogium> sounds like a too old tape
2021-06-25T05:13:21 < Xogium> a tiny sleep solved this issue. Probably because things are not fully stable yet
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2021-06-25T15:24:50 < Laurenceb> the absolute state of file sync software
2021-06-25T15:26:36 < Laurenceb> Resilio uses the same retarded block based sync
2021-06-25T15:29:07 < specing> use rsync
2021-06-25T15:29:48 < BrainDamage> both syncthing and resilio have to deal with multi-way sync
2021-06-25T15:30:03 < Laurenceb> yeah but rsync still needs to scan the whole file
2021-06-25T15:30:06 < BrainDamage> with multiple copies on multiple servers
2021-06-25T15:30:11 < Laurenceb> way better than Resilio
2021-06-25T15:30:23 < Laurenceb> almost as fail as murican tower blocks
2021-06-25T15:30:29 < specing> rsync only scans whole file if its actually transfering
2021-06-25T15:30:32 < specing> which is based on mtime
2021-06-25T15:30:56 < BrainDamage> it's optional, you can chose if to use mtime+size or hash
2021-06-25T15:31:22 < Laurenceb> yeah, deamonised with that lua script using inotify should be pretty good
2021-06-25T15:31:29 < specing> or just size. But mtime is the default iirc
2021-06-25T15:31:33 < Laurenceb> then ~2kB files
2021-06-25T15:31:42 < BrainDamage> no, it's mtime+size by default
2021-06-25T15:32:10 < Laurenceb> ideally I need about 2Hz update
2021-06-25T15:32:12 < BrainDamage> because both are a constant lookup in a fs table
2021-06-25T15:33:18 < Laurenceb> or I could roll my own UDP system
2021-06-25T15:34:18 < Laurenceb> hmm yeah an issue with rsync if it the system goes offline then when it comes back online it wont send most recent logged data first
2021-06-25T15:34:42 < Laurenceb> web2.0 dude wants to use http/json
2021-06-25T15:35:04 < Laurenceb> that has advantages here, but the offline logging would be really complex
2021-06-25T15:36:51 < Laurenceb> heh I could make a sort of simplified clone of TCP/IP
2021-06-25T15:37:17 < Laurenceb> each packet is given a sequence number, then transmitted immediately over UDP
2021-06-25T15:37:44 < ventyl> still dealing with berkelyDB log syncing?
2021-06-25T15:38:04 < Laurenceb> I gave up on BerkeleyDB as too complex, but maybe itd be the way to go
2021-06-25T15:38:39 < Laurenceb> web2.0 guy suggests storing unsubmitted http posts in BDB for later resend
2021-06-25T15:38:46 < Laurenceb> might be the way to go...
2021-06-25T15:38:55 < BrainDamage> what the hell are you doing that you require realtime updates?
2021-06-25T15:39:14 < Laurenceb> live telemetry
2021-06-25T15:39:31 < Laurenceb> with integrated offline support and caching
2021-06-25T15:39:53 < ventyl> well, that's utter crap
2021-06-25T15:40:09 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-06-25T15:40:26 < Laurenceb> someone suggested mqtt
2021-06-25T15:40:41 < ventyl> simply store data in imdb berkeleydb. if you need, fire another disk-backed berkeleydb node on the same machine in different env, so you get fast, yet unreliable persistent backup. and then synchronize log records to remote berkeleydb node as well
2021-06-25T15:40:45 < BrainDamage> just separate the realtime part from the cache
2021-06-25T15:41:07 < ventyl> logger then deals just with imdb berkeleydb, the rest is dealt by replication manager
2021-06-25T15:41:09 < BrainDamage> so instant live stream of data and slow rsync based cache
2021-06-25T15:41:45  * qyx would use mqtt with a python queue periodically saved to a file!
2021-06-25T15:41:45 < BrainDamage> your headache is because you're trying to do both at once, but nothing forces you to do so
2021-06-25T15:42:18 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-25T15:42:25 < BrainDamage> mqtt servers have indeed bultin buffers in the case of disconnection
2021-06-25T15:42:33 < BrainDamage> at least mosquitto does
2021-06-25T15:43:29 < Laurenceb> heh that was created by babbyshake guys
2021-06-25T15:43:43 < qyx> yes but no, it depends
2021-06-25T15:43:56 < qyx> re: mosquitto
2021-06-25T15:44:03 < Laurenceb> hmm I need to read the mosquitto docs
2021-06-25T16:03:02 < karlp> bleh, systemd resolved has fucked things up
2021-06-25T16:03:04 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/nFOwT
2021-06-25T16:03:13 < karlp> mqtt _by spec_ has queues per client.
2021-06-25T16:03:33 < qyx> but only if persistent sessions are enabled
2021-06-25T16:03:39 < karlp> no.
2021-06-25T16:03:42 < qyx> no?
2021-06-25T16:03:46 < karlp> persistence is separte frrom queueing.
2021-06-25T16:03:57 < karlp> persistence is completely optional and just whether it reloads queues over restartss.
2021-06-25T16:04:09 < karlp> queugin is just qos+client with cleansession=false.
2021-06-25T16:04:52 < karlp> using mqtt bridges for queueing is pretty easy.  it lets you do things like turn off each end for upgrades and things just automatically queue up 
2021-06-25T16:05:50 < karlp> but lolrence isn't really into easy...
2021-06-25T16:06:14 < qyx> idk I forgot it all
2021-06-25T16:08:56 < mawk> how is berkeley db too complex Laurenceb 
2021-06-25T16:09:02 < mawk> it's literally a key-value store
2021-06-25T16:09:13 < mawk> nothing more
2021-06-25T16:09:17 < Laurenceb> mawk: well we need to do replication and aiui that means a loicense from Oracle
2021-06-25T16:09:35 < karlp> fack, roto disk full on this odroid
2021-06-25T16:09:35 < mawk> yeah
2021-06-25T16:09:36 < Laurenceb> also it wont sync the newset values first when it comes back online aiui
2021-06-25T16:09:41 < mawk> but that's not complex, that's expensive
2021-06-25T16:09:45 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-06-25T16:10:04 < mawk> I wonder if you get oracle lawyers visiting you when you buy stuff from them
2021-06-25T16:10:08 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-06-25T16:10:08 < mawk> to check if you use it correctly
2021-06-25T16:10:48 < BrainDamage> you probably need to wear the buttplug hw token all the time to authenticate to use the software
2021-06-25T16:11:11 < Laurenceb> I'm tempted to use UDP for teh lulz
2021-06-25T16:11:39 < ventyl> at least when we were using it, you didn't need to buy the license as long as the product was in-house
2021-06-25T16:11:51 < ventyl> and there was opensource license available
2021-06-25T16:12:07 < Laurenceb> yeah that seems to be how it works
2021-06-25T16:12:36 < ventyl> fully blown perpetual license cost like ~$5k, which you probably already burned by iterating over different options anyway
2021-06-25T16:13:29 < Laurenceb> ah ok thats not at all bad
2021-06-25T16:14:00 < ventyl> but check that figure. it is more than decade old
2021-06-25T16:14:15 < ventyl> i researched it for the eventuality that we would sell our SW
2021-06-25T16:14:21 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-25T16:14:45 < Laurenceb> hmm maybe I could haxor BDB by adding UDP instant updates
2021-06-25T16:15:08 < karlp> but muh reliable packets....
2021-06-25T16:15:19 < karlp> if you're streaming telemetry and its important, mqtt really is a good option...
2021-06-25T16:15:22 < Laurenceb> who cares, it will update later properly
2021-06-25T16:15:23 < ventyl> replication manager works in a way that it transfers transaction logs
2021-06-25T16:15:34 < ventyl> IIRC, it is in order
2021-06-25T16:15:38 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-25T16:16:03 < ventyl> if you do sync on DB, then logs are all checked to be synced to database and they are not needed anymore
2021-06-25T16:16:28 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-25T16:16:52 < ventyl> after replication is started, each node publishes latest log record it has and then master starts transfering log records from latest replicated to most recent in replication group
2021-06-25T16:16:56 < Laurenceb> karlp: yeah the more I look at mqtt with offline backup, the more it looks like BDB with a UDP hack to add realtime updates
2021-06-25T16:17:19 < ventyl> IIRC, there are some options, when joining replication group, such as fail if not synced, do delayed sync
2021-06-25T16:17:44 < Laurenceb> yeah theres not of config options in there
2021-06-25T16:17:52 < Laurenceb> *s/not/lots
2021-06-25T16:18:37 < Laurenceb> _something_ has surely got to be better than a http post/json queue
2021-06-25T16:19:28 < ventyl> well, to me MQTT sounds almost like *the* tool designed to do this job
2021-06-25T16:19:32 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-25T16:19:35 < ventyl> but I have never been using it
2021-06-25T16:19:40 < Laurenceb> me neither
2021-06-25T16:20:09 < Laurenceb> time to read the mosquitto docs
2021-06-25T16:20:54 < karlp> there's a #mqtt and you can hassle me as well.
2021-06-25T16:20:59 < karlp> we've used it for years.
2021-06-25T16:21:37 < ventyl> and if mqtt was not up the job, I'd use quake 3
2021-06-25T16:21:50 < ventyl> or quake 2, or whichever had network multiplayer
2021-06-25T16:21:56 < Laurenceb> gamers rise up!
2021-06-25T16:22:02 < ventyl> it has some clever design ideas
2021-06-25T16:22:15 < ventyl> which enable reliable transfers even using UDP
2021-06-25T16:22:34 < qyx> isnt mqtt tcp?
2021-06-25T16:22:44 < karlp> yes.
2021-06-25T16:22:58 < karlp> ventyl was referring to quake
2021-06-25T16:23:10 < karlp> quake 1 had network multipler dude :)
2021-06-25T16:23:38 < ventyl> karlp: back then I had only ZX Spectrum clone, so I've only been able to play Dizzy
2021-06-25T16:23:48 < karlp> right, so... for "reasons" docker system df and ps -s and all the "how big are my containers" just pretend that the gigs of <containerhash>-json.log just don't count...
2021-06-25T16:23:49 < qyx> back to work, I speak bullshit when reading only the last line
2021-06-25T16:23:57 < ventyl> I got my 386 around 1997
2021-06-25T16:24:06 < karlp> fucking container wankers
2021-06-25T16:24:07 < ventyl> and pentium around 2001
2021-06-25T16:26:35 < karlp> "tip, use some other setting than the default to avoid disk exhaustion!" https://docs.docker.com/config/containers/logging/configure/
2021-06-25T16:26:37 < karlp> thanks cunts
2021-06-25T16:28:03 < karlp> " To update the logging driver for a container, the container has to be re-created with the desired options."
2021-06-25T16:28:08 < karlp> fucking bulllllllshit
2021-06-25T16:57:05 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57586315
2021-06-25T16:57:09 < Laurenceb> a bit antisemitic
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2021-06-25T17:42:41 < tct> I have a pressure transducer (sensor) in front of me. It has the typical M12 4-pole connector on it. The datasheet lists three pins: U+, U- and S+. What is the proper way of connecting this? The test-gear it came with only has two wires connected. I take it that would be the U+ (24VDC) and U- (GND) and the device will regulate the current accordingly. WHat's the deal with S+ tho?
2021-06-25T17:51:22 < zyp> signal?
2021-06-25T17:51:46 < zyp> U+/U- sounds like voltage pos/neg and S+ sounds like signal pos
2021-06-25T17:58:03 < qyx> maybe it can do both 4-20 mA and voltage output and they sent you the wrong cable?
2021-06-25T17:59:05 < tct> datasheet clearly states that it only does 4-20mA output
2021-06-25T17:59:39 < tct> so you guys agree that U+/U- is gonna be 24VDC supply and S+ to U- will be 4-20mA output?
2021-06-25T18:02:03 < englishman> without reading the handy instructions that came with it, id say thats a safe assumption, if you got the 4-20mA model
2021-06-25T18:04:26 < tct> thanks guys
2021-06-25T18:04:31 < tct> very ##stm32
2021-06-25T18:04:33 < tct> <3
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2021-06-25T18:21:36 < tct> Tried to measure current from S+ to U- nothing happening. However, the consumption current on U+/U- does behave in the 4-20mA way.
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2021-06-25T18:23:42 < englishman> theres some 2 wire 4-20mA devices
2021-06-25T18:24:38 < englishman> so that might be it. 3rd pin is broken out because it's cheaper than making 2 pigtails/connectors
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2021-06-25T18:56:30 < Laurenceb> hmm AES is quite easy to use
2021-06-25T18:56:41 < Laurenceb> I could use encrypted UDP quite easily
2021-06-25T18:57:17 < BrainDamage> in b4 ecb
2021-06-25T18:57:41 < Laurenceb> if I use AES to encrypt my UDP packets, is there any point adding digital signature to them as well?
2021-06-25T18:58:20 < BrainDamage> the first rule of encryption is that you don't roll your encryption
2021-06-25T18:58:29 < Laurenceb> I guess signature can also be a CRC, so it doesnt add much overhead
2021-06-25T18:58:34 < Laurenceb> lol its just off the shelf tools
2021-06-25T18:58:35 < BrainDamage> and you use authentication encryption
2021-06-25T18:58:48 < BrainDamage> even combining them is not trivial
2021-06-25T18:58:59 < Laurenceb> this is a private system so it can use shared secrets
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2021-06-25T19:12:57 < Laurenceb> I think I need a MAC
2021-06-25T19:13:33 < Laurenceb> or HMAC
2021-06-25T19:14:09 < Laurenceb> >HMAC can provide message authentication using a shared secret instead of using digital signatures with asymmetric cryptography
2021-06-25T19:14:10 < Laurenceb> epin
2021-06-25T19:16:34 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticated_encryption
2021-06-25T19:18:51 < kakium69> midsummer fest
2021-06-25T19:19:13 < Laurenceb> not too hard
2021-06-25T19:19:27 < qyx> what about using something standard?
2021-06-25T19:19:32 < qyx> dtls not for you?
2021-06-25T19:20:54 < Laurenceb> hmm ok maybe
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2021-06-25T20:45:27 < bitmask> hmm, paint goes fast when you dont know what you're doing.  i shoulda got more than half a pint
2021-06-25T20:50:51 < jpa-> you shouldn't drink it
2021-06-25T20:51:10 < bitmask> oh shit, is that what im doing wrong?
2021-06-25T20:51:31 < jpa-> could be
2021-06-25T20:51:42 < jpa-> you should also mask your bits first, to not get paint on them
2021-06-25T20:51:54 < bitmask> will do
2021-06-25T20:51:54 < jpa-> especially your private bits
2021-06-25T20:52:57 < Steffanx> You never told me to mask my private bits, jpa- 
2021-06-25T20:54:20 < bitmask> he wants your bits to go bad
2021-06-25T20:54:26 < bitmask> mine are worth saving
2021-06-25T20:58:20 < bitmask> damn, this paint is solvent based and the white is just sucking up the red im trying to paint over, i sanded almost all of it off but the tiny bit left is turning the whole part pink
2021-06-25T21:24:55 < jadew> https://www.smh.com.au/sport/transgender-weightlifter-hubbard-selected-for-tokyo-olympics-20210621-p582qz.html
2021-06-25T21:33:51 < jadew> I'm going to bet on New Zealand winning the weightlifting competition in the women division at the 87 kg category
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2021-06-25T21:44:53 < bitmask> oops, got paint all over the bed :P
2021-06-25T21:49:31 < jadew> let me guess... white
2021-06-25T21:50:18 < bitmask> white paint yea
2021-06-25T21:50:29 < bitmask> not white sheets
2021-06-25T21:50:42 < bitmask> greyish sheets
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2021-06-25T22:24:33 < kakium69> "paint"
2021-06-25T22:25:42 < bitmask> you dirty old man
2021-06-25T22:27:52 < tct> did somebody say "dirty old man"? I am here.
2021-06-25T22:28:16 < kakium69> bitmask: *uncle man
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2021-06-25T22:51:51 < kakium69> I think it's time for kalsarikännit
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2021-06-25T23:03:07 < steve_> can i send to channel
2021-06-25T23:03:14 < tct> yes
2021-06-25T23:03:20 < tct> are you stvn? pumpin' hard?
2021-06-25T23:03:35 < steve_> cool, no nickserv?  noob here
2021-06-25T23:04:36 < tct> there is nickserv
2021-06-25T23:04:42 < tct> do /msg NickServ help
2021-06-25T23:05:09 < steve_> when flash writing a STM32, would you expect ProgramWord to go faster than ProgramByte ?  4x faster?  or same
2021-06-25T23:06:27 < steve_> ie. total time to write X amount of flash
2021-06-25T23:19:52 < Steffanx> Not stvn. Stvn is dead tct
2021-06-25T23:20:00 < Steffanx> Irc dead.
2021-06-25T23:20:19 < Steffanx> And mentally unstable on telegram
2021-06-25T23:20:37 < tct> :(
2021-06-25T23:23:48 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-06-25T23:38:19 < kakium69> he is on telehram?
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2021-06-25T23:44:36 < tct> you guys should check out Threema instead. Swiss based messaging service with high standards regarding privacy. they just won a court case. They don´t have to disclose any information to agencies like NSA, BND etc.
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--- Day changed Sat Jun 26 2021
2021-06-26T00:01:16 < Steffanx> Yes kakium69  he is
2021-06-26T00:01:32 < Steffanx> Even in the stm32 group 
2021-06-26T01:11:36 < jadew> is there a soldering tip fine enough for this? http://188.25.73.249/stuff/2021-06-26_0001_0X.png
2021-06-26T01:12:58 < jadew> I will need that and a trained ant, that can use it
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2021-06-26T01:22:17 < sauce> isnt wirebonding usually used for that sort of thing
2021-06-26T01:25:36 < zyp> jadew, 0.5mm doesn't sound all that small really
2021-06-26T01:26:18 < jadew> they are invisible to the naked eye
2021-06-26T01:26:31 < zyp> what is it you're gonna solder on it?
2021-06-26T01:26:37 < jadew> 0.2mm wide
2021-06-26T01:26:50 < jadew> it seems the one at the bottom is the problem
2021-06-26T01:27:00 < jadew> at least that's my best guess
2021-06-26T01:27:03 < jadew> it's a diode
2021-06-26T01:27:16 < zyp> ah
2021-06-26T01:27:31 < zyp> looks like roughly a 01005 with legs :p
2021-06-26T01:28:18 < jadew> yeah, my hope is that I can find a standard package and maybe solder it in
2021-06-26T01:28:23 < jadew> without breaking the wire bonds
2021-06-26T01:28:46 < zyp> what is it bonded to?
2021-06-26T01:29:09 < zyp> is this some sort of balun?
2021-06-26T01:29:24 < jadew> give me a sec, will post pics
2021-06-26T01:29:35 < jadew> it's bonded to a pair of caps I believe
2021-06-26T01:30:00 < jadew> seems the balun is on the regular-sized-components side
2021-06-26T01:30:43 < jadew> http://188.25.73.249/stuff/WIN_20210624_22_07_49_Pro.jpg
2021-06-26T01:31:12 < jadew> problem is I can't really measure it, I can only guess that it is broken because of how it behaves
2021-06-26T01:31:18 < jadew> I can measure the top one
2021-06-26T01:31:23 < jadew> and I know the other two are working
2021-06-26T01:31:32 < jadew> (because that part of the circuit yields correct results
2021-06-26T01:31:34 < jadew> )
2021-06-26T01:31:49 < jadew> wish I had a wire bonding machine
2021-06-26T01:31:53 < zyp> funky stuff, what is this?
2021-06-26T01:32:15 < jadew> it's a 20 GHz mixer/sampler/power sensor
2021-06-26T01:33:05 < jadew> and comb generator :)
2021-06-26T01:33:18 < jadew> and the comb generation part is broken (I think)
2021-06-26T01:33:25 < zyp> unrelated: I'm getting more and more tempted to pick up a microscope soon
2021-06-26T01:33:34 < jadew> you don't have one?
2021-06-26T01:33:41 < zyp> nope
2021-06-26T01:33:54 < jadew> they're invaluable
2021-06-26T01:34:23 < jadew> but don't pay too much :P
2021-06-26T01:34:33 < jadew> you can get a good one for pretty cheap
2021-06-26T01:35:05 < jadew> and go for trinocular without the switch
2021-06-26T01:35:13 < zyp> I just remember I hated a microscope I tried like 10 years ago, and then I've done without since
2021-06-26T01:36:03 < jadew> they're amazing for inspection and board rework
2021-06-26T01:36:24 < zyp> but now I'm getting into stuff where it could really be useful, and the one we've got at work is not unpleasant to use
2021-06-26T01:36:41 < jadew> ah, so you are using one
2021-06-26T01:36:51 < jadew> thought you'd need more convincing :)
2021-06-26T01:37:15 < jadew> so yeah... go for trinocular, no switch and the rest is up to you
2021-06-26T01:37:43 < jadew> I think one of those long stands is very helpful too
2021-06-26T01:37:54 < jadew> as opposed to the ones that have the stand under the objective
2021-06-26T01:38:08 < zyp> already decided on trinocular without switch
2021-06-26T01:39:13 < jadew> I used mine to cut into my son's skin to remove glass, wouldn't have been able to do it if the arm was not long enough
2021-06-26T01:42:58 < zyp> I've been looking at something like this: https://www.amscope.com/3-5x-90x-simul-focal-articulating-zoom-stereo-microscope-with-3mp-digital-camera.html
2021-06-26T01:43:16 < jadew> that looks fancy
2021-06-26T01:43:37 < jadew> is it sturdy enough?
2021-06-26T01:43:48 < zyp> I have no idea :)
2021-06-26T01:44:23 < jadew> looks great if it is
2021-06-26T01:47:36 < kakium69> Baywatch was nice movie
2021-06-26T01:47:39 < kakium69> 2017
2021-06-26T01:48:15 < sauce> i have the same one but with the cantilever-style stand and it's sturdier than my workbench
2021-06-26T01:48:21 < sauce> the lamp stand probably isnt quite so stable
2021-06-26T01:48:59 < zyp> the stand looks like the best part of it all though
2021-06-26T01:49:24 < zyp> at work you take stuff to the microscope, I'd like to be able to bring the microscope over to the stuff
2021-06-26T01:50:47 < sauce> makes sense, easier coarse vertical adjustment too
2021-06-26T01:51:32 < sauce> my LED ring died but i think it's because i plugged in an adapter that wasnt centre-negative
2021-06-26T01:52:48 < jadew> I got a more powerful ring light and added polarization
2021-06-26T01:52:52 < zyp> only problem is that my desk is getting too small :/
2021-06-26T01:53:45 < sauce> in practical terms how does polarization affect the image?
2021-06-26T01:54:24 < sauce> do you lose the specular reflections along one axis
2021-06-26T01:54:56 < jadew> you can adjust it from no effect to only some reflections getting through
2021-06-26T01:55:08 < jadew> you can instantly read stuff that's otherwise unreadable
2021-06-26T01:55:29 < jadew> also helpful to look at details in very shiny places
2021-06-26T01:55:38 < jadew> because you can take the shine away
2021-06-26T01:56:36 < jadew> for me, the most useful aspect is the one about reading things off of parts
2021-06-26T01:56:59 < jadew> no more tilting
2021-06-26T01:57:13 < sauce> neat
2021-06-26T01:58:31 < zyp> nice
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2021-06-26T02:27:15 < qyx> does anyone know why I am wathng R44 helicopter videos
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2021-06-26T17:02:19 < englishman> qyx: is it because they are cool and you are about to buy one
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2021-06-26T17:07:29 < qyx> new R22 is roughly the same price as a new 3-room flat here
2021-06-26T17:08:35 < jpa-> which one is more fun?
2021-06-26T17:08:56 < qyx> R22 is lighter
2021-06-26T17:09:23 < qyx> not much space for anything useful besides two passengers
2021-06-26T17:10:32 < englishman> don't forget the $400/hr to fly it. after you buy it
2021-06-26T17:10:45 < kakium69> 400!!?+1
2021-06-26T17:10:52 < kakium69> are you sure?
2021-06-26T17:16:21 < qyx> $8000 per year insurance, uh
2021-06-26T17:17:14 < qyx> $75 operating cost per hour
2021-06-26T17:17:32 < qyx> incl. inspections, fuel, oil and unscheduled maintenance
2021-06-26T17:18:35 < kakium69> yes more like 100buckeroos per hour
2021-06-26T17:19:08 < kakium69> 400 is more like for jet ranger etc. bigger jet powered utility copters
2021-06-26T17:19:50 < qyx> $163 including overhaul + life limited components at 500 hrs/year
2021-06-26T17:19:58 < qyx> ie. total cost
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2021-06-26T17:22:07 < kakium69> yes
2021-06-26T17:22:11 < kakium69> more like 200buckeroos
2021-06-26T17:22:31 < kakium69> you already pay 100buckeroos if you fly fixed wing with similar engine
2021-06-26T17:23:07 < kakium69> and 400buckeroos for 4 seater copter
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2021-06-26T18:35:05 < kakium69> Honda CB 750F2 opinions?
2021-06-26T19:12:40 < Steffanx> Golden oldy?
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2021-06-27T02:41:39 < karlp> what's this "switch" in regards to microscopes?
2021-06-27T02:43:06 < karlp> nvm, simul focal and not having to switch between the camera and the eyepieces
2021-06-27T02:43:16 < karlp> switches sound vile, they must be way cheaper
2021-06-27T03:14:12 < zyp> yeah, two vs three outputs
2021-06-27T03:34:03 < qyx> desoldering this is virtually impossible https://ce8dc832c.cloudimg.io/v7/_cdn_/E2/5C/80/00/0/574766_1.jpg?width=640&height=480&wat=1&wat_url=_tme-wrk_%2Ftme_new.png&wat_scale=100p&ci_sign=fcb6c02110cd53cedaa0fb3b1a582a2588c002cd
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2021-06-27T04:28:43 < englishman> karlp: it used to be much cheaper, nowadays not so much. could be some diffence in optical quality but shits good enough for electronics
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2021-06-27T09:09:52 < jpa-> qyx: how about with low temperature solder?
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2021-06-27T12:47:10 < qyx> jpa-: hm, I don't have any
2021-06-27T12:47:21 < qyx> do you mean those indium ones or whatever are they?
2021-06-27T12:48:23 < jpa-> yeah
2021-06-27T12:48:34 < jpa-> it's worth having
2021-06-27T12:48:43 < qyx> I$ll check
2021-06-27T12:49:11 < qyx> but ordering a low temp solder takes the same time as ordering a new SOM module
2021-06-27T12:51:03 < jpa-> you can also buy an analog thermometer from pharmacy :)
2021-06-27T12:51:42 < qyx> what for
2021-06-27T12:51:51 < qyx> oh
2021-06-27T12:54:34 < jpa-> they have gallium-indium as the metal nowadays
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2021-06-27T15:30:50 < ventyl> ghetto style solder
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 28 2021
2021-06-28T00:05:32 < qyx> did anyone see obtainable *big* zinc air batteries?
2021-06-28T00:06:04 < qyx> something in the order of several Ah
2021-06-28T00:53:12 < karlp> annnnnd aliexpress has tossed my card again.
2021-06-28T00:53:14 < karlp> cunts
2021-06-28T00:55:32 < Steffanx> Yw
2021-06-28T01:00:45 < tct> qyx, once worked with a 6V 60Ah air-zinc battery - does that fit your bill?
2021-06-28T01:02:39 < PaulFertser> lolrance-grade news: russian foreign affairs minister claims that the USA is trying to split the "worldwide orthodox church community" by teaching in schools that Jesus Christ was bisexual.
2021-06-28T01:03:10 < PaulFertser> So absurd on so many levels I can hardly believe that he really said that.
2021-06-28T01:03:15 < tct> wasn´t he?
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2021-06-28T01:13:56  * t4nk_fn was also expecting news
2021-06-28T01:17:17 < qyx> tct: perfectly, so at least I know they exist
2021-06-28T01:18:36 < qyx> https://www.iskra.eu/de/Zinc-Air-Saline-Batteries_1/Electric-Fence-Batteries_1/
2021-06-28T01:18:37 < qyx> whoa
2021-06-28T01:18:42 < qyx> found a match
2021-06-28T01:35:38 < tct> qyx, https://www.reichelt.com/ch/de/blockbatterie-zink-luft-6-v-50-ah-ans-1500-0047-p266316.html
2021-06-28T01:38:54 < qyx> sauerstoffbaterie, ja
2021-06-28T01:38:55 < qyx> thanks
2021-06-28T01:39:00 < qyx> quite cheap
2021-06-28T01:47:50 < qyx> some others https://www.cegasa.com/en/ez8
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2021-06-28T02:21:03 < tct> what are you crafting?
2021-06-28T02:22:50 < qyx> a daq, still the same
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2021-06-28T11:29:24 < mouseghost> hi
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2021-06-28T13:14:23 < mawk> is it dangerous to short a lisocl2 battery?
2021-06-28T13:15:24 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
2021-06-28T13:30:45 < benishor> I guess there's only one way to find out? :)
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2021-06-28T13:58:45 < mawk> that's what I did benishor 
2021-06-28T13:58:48 < mawk> the battery barely got warm
2021-06-28T13:58:52 < mawk> I wanted a big explosion
2021-06-28T13:59:12 < mawk> but it was a small short, maybe it had high resistance
2021-06-28T14:00:01 < benishor> was it charged?
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2021-06-28T14:09:51 < BrainDamage> reverse charge batts for best effects
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2021-06-28T15:05:00 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-06-28T15:05:09 < Laurenceb> question for internets gurus
2021-06-28T15:05:22 < Laurenceb> I understand STUN for NAT/UDP hole punching
2021-06-28T15:05:43 < Laurenceb> but how do I exchange visible IP address with the other party?
2021-06-28T15:07:31 < BrainDamage> then you don't understand stun :p
2021-06-28T15:07:51 < BrainDamage> the third party server informs eachother of their public ip
2021-06-28T15:08:05 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2021-06-28T15:08:20 < Laurenceb> python ""stun"" lib just tells you your own external ip
2021-06-28T15:09:36 < BrainDamage> ah wait, i misunderstood you
2021-06-28T15:09:55 < BrainDamage> you share it externally
2021-06-28T15:10:02 < BrainDamage> be it dynamic dns or whatever
2021-06-28T15:10:16 < BrainDamage> you're supposed to know beforehand who you want to contact
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2021-06-28T15:15:00 < Laurenceb> hmmm
2021-06-28T15:15:25 < Laurenceb> maybe it could be emailed lmao
2021-06-28T15:15:44 < BrainDamage> if you don't want to setup all that, consider a "zero configuration vpn"
2021-06-28T15:16:06 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-28T15:16:17 < Laurenceb> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3489.txt
2021-06-28T15:16:22 < Laurenceb> this is ... complicated
2021-06-28T15:16:34 < Laurenceb> but looks like it has more features than the python lib
2021-06-28T15:16:54 < BrainDamage> the vpn will use stun/hole punching as necessary
2021-06-28T15:23:31 < mawk> yes it was charged benishor 
2021-06-28T15:23:41 < mawk> but it's hard to know charge status of lisocl2
2021-06-28T15:23:46 < mawk> voltage is pretty constant
2021-06-28T15:23:56 < mawk> how we do it is counting coulombs passing over time
2021-06-28T15:24:04 < mawk> voltage is too bad to predict charge
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2021-06-28T18:00:32 < karlp> heh, you know how we often say, "just reflash it, you're never goign to wear out the flash just doing development work"....
2021-06-28T18:00:33 < karlp> HDFlash endurance: 100 cycles
2021-06-28T18:01:28 < karlp> now sure, this is just some junk old st7, but... heh.
2021-06-28T18:01:32 < Xogium> wow that is one hell of a crap flash
2021-06-28T18:02:35 < Thorn> stm8s0xx also have 100 cycles iirc
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2021-06-28T18:02:49 < Thorn> and altera cplds
2021-06-28T18:03:17 < Xogium> but wait surely they mean per cell, not the whole flash ?
2021-06-28T18:06:47 < Xogium> well, damn me, I sure hope the flash in the nucleo boards is actually intended for devel…
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2021-06-28T18:49:17 < mawk> per half-page Xogium 
2021-06-28T18:49:20 < mawk> I suppose
2021-06-28T18:50:07 < mawk> I tried to short a lisocl2 while keeping it in an ice bath to cool it down
2021-06-28T18:50:13 < mawk> I wasn't able to get its voltage down
2021-06-28T18:50:24 < mawk> maybe there's a hidden protection circuit inside
2021-06-28T18:50:39 < qyx> why are you wasting those precious cells
2021-06-28T18:50:53 < mawk> I don't know how much they cost
2021-06-28T18:51:03 < qyx> a fucking much
2021-06-28T18:51:13 < mawk> I'm trying to reproduce a cold-induced issue on these batteries
2021-06-28T18:51:17 < mawk> but I can't
2021-06-28T18:51:25 < qyx> a D cell is nearly 15e
2021-06-28T18:51:37 < mawk> maybe it's not the cold, but like a spider entering the device when it's cold and messing with the buttons
2021-06-28T18:51:44 < qyx> AA is 2.50 to 4e, depending on distributor and brand
2021-06-28T18:51:44 < mawk> yes it's D cells
2021-06-28T18:52:05 < qyx> lisocl2 flew to an asteroid without problems
2021-06-28T18:52:22 < qyx> they should be good to about -50 °C
2021-06-28T18:52:26 < mawk> without heating?
2021-06-28T18:52:27 < mawk> ah
2021-06-28T18:52:30 < qyx> yeah
2021-06-28T18:52:38 < mawk> well maybe it's the supercap that doesn't like cold then
2021-06-28T18:53:35 < mouseghost> 100 cycles X_X???
2021-06-28T18:53:45 < mawk> 100 is a big number
2021-06-28T18:53:53 < qyx> https://www.saftbatteries.com/media-resources/press-releases/saft-battery-specially-developed-cnes-prepares-esa%E2%80%99s-philae-lander
2021-06-28T18:53:57 < mawk> it's greater than 100 integers
2021-06-28T18:54:53 < mawk> ah nice
2021-06-28T18:57:39 < karlp> mouseghost: I was talking about the flash in a ST7 micro, very obsolete.... nothing to actually worry about
2021-06-28T18:57:56 < mouseghost> yeah i figured...
2021-06-28T18:58:12 < mouseghost> i do read the ds sometimes
2021-06-28T18:58:38 < mawk> why do you work with very obsolete stuff karlp
2021-06-28T18:58:40 < mawk> resign
2021-06-28T19:18:09 < Steffanx> At least its not php mawk :P
2021-06-28T19:18:17 < mawk> :(
2021-06-28T19:23:13 < Steffanx> hows life in dutchland mawk?
2021-06-28T19:24:22 < mawk> rainy
2021-06-28T19:25:16 < Steffanx> perfect
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2021-06-28T19:29:02 < Laurenceb> how can I create a side channel for STUN to work properly?
2021-06-28T19:30:18 < Laurenceb> email? (lol)
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2021-06-28T19:55:10 < sauce> its usually used alongside another centralized transport like a websocket server
2021-06-28T20:01:30 < Laurenceb> ok
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2021-06-28T21:44:45 < Laurenceb> >stick camera in _Handcock_ office
2021-06-28T21:44:56 < Laurenceb> >only record handass not handcock
2021-06-28T21:45:00 < Laurenceb> dissapointing
2021-06-28T21:54:31 < Steffanx> OK Laurenceb 
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 29 2021
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2021-06-29T00:15:59 < mouseghost> wonder if laurence figured it out
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2021-06-29T00:53:49 < karlp> mawk: not working with the st7 at all.
2021-06-29T00:54:06 < karlp> found some odd looking garbage downstairs, thought Id see what was inside.
2021-06-29T00:54:23 < karlp> was a motorized desk controller thingy
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2021-06-29T04:13:17 < qyx> I made two super pro M12 power cables
2021-06-29T04:13:30 < qyx> both are equally wrong
2021-06-29T04:13:50 < qyx> at least now I know the reverse battery protection actually works
2021-06-29T04:31:57 < Streaker> mosfet protection?
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2021-06-29T04:41:21 < qyx> yes
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2021-06-29T12:18:28 < tct> does anybody know whether there are heat shrink tubes that are thermally conductive?
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2021-06-29T13:20:25 < karlp> did you even fucking try? https://www.globalspec.com/industrial-directory/thermal_conductive_heat_shrink_tubing
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2021-06-29T13:38:48 < tct> the attitude man...
2021-06-29T13:39:48 < tct> I don't think that the ones listed on the page you linked are particularly thermally conductive
2021-06-29T13:49:43 < Steffanx> tct did you forget karlp is a nice guy and always means well
2021-06-29T13:55:45 < tct> is he? does he?
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2021-06-29T14:14:56 < englishman> everything is thermally conductive.
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2021-06-29T14:46:50 < bitmask> poop
2021-06-29T15:03:55 < Laurenceb_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dskzCkPK7bA
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2021-06-29T15:41:54 < ventyl> englishman got the point
2021-06-29T15:42:34  * ventyl sratches an itch on his FEM static thermal solver code
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2021-06-29T17:32:53 < mawk> is it wrong to solder on a powered on board?
2021-06-29T17:33:01 < mawk> what's the worst that could happen
2021-06-29T17:33:08 < mawk> assuming I don't short anything
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2021-06-29T18:08:12 < BrainDamage> the soldering iron tip is often wired to protective earth
2021-06-29T18:08:25 < BrainDamage> so depending on the circuit, the iron itself can short things
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2021-06-29T18:08:57 < qyx> you'll iron your board out like karlp 
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2021-06-29T19:18:08 < karlp> 12what did I do now?
2021-06-29T19:19:10 < qyx> you scoped your hub
2021-06-29T19:19:59 < BrainDamage> 380vnoscope
2021-06-29T19:20:45 < karlp> no, I scoped some mains, the hub was just in the way.
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2021-06-29T21:26:49 < Laurenceb_> time to feast on aryan tears
2021-06-29T21:26:57 < Laurenceb_> big black footballers
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2021-06-29T21:45:39 < Laurenceb> how are local DNS servers located on a LAN?
2021-06-29T21:46:49 < Xogium> typically via dhcp
2021-06-29T21:47:10 < Xogium> the dhcp info can say, well buddy, here's your dns server
2021-06-29T21:48:17 < Xogium> dhcp can tell your pc many things, dns server, default route, ntp server to rely on…
2021-06-29T21:49:27 < BrainDamage> or you can use mdns
2021-06-29T21:49:42 < Xogium> or that, yeah… But it's a headache, I find
2021-06-29T21:49:55 < Xogium> at least, I've never managed to make it work here
2021-06-29T21:50:07 < BrainDamage> never had an issue
2021-06-29T21:56:12 < Xogium> maybe it was me then :p
2021-06-29T21:56:16 < Xogium> who knows
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2021-06-29T22:10:43 < bitmask> why the fuck did i buy so much hydro dipping film
2021-06-29T22:10:43 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/mDjWsPK.jpg
2021-06-29T22:10:59 < bitmask> the rolls on the left have multiple patterns per roll
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2021-06-29T22:16:30 < Steffanx> You wanted to spend the trump money unwisely bitmask 
2021-06-29T22:24:50 < bitmask> haha
2021-06-29T22:25:07 < bitmask> i think it was very wise
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2021-06-29T23:34:55 < Laurenceb_> hmm dhcp is pretty simple
2021-06-29T23:34:57 < Laurenceb_> nice
2021-06-29T23:35:12  * Laurenceb_ is working on hyperloop lan
2021-06-29T23:36:41 < Laurenceb_> hyperloop traction controller is now in labview...
2021-06-29T23:49:14 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has quit []
2021-06-29T23:51:06 < Steffanx> That's one step further than just mathlab, congrats Laurenceb_ 
--- Day changed Wed Jun 30 2021
2021-06-30T00:12:59 -!- rajkosto [~rajkosto@cable-178-149-127-189.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-06-30T00:36:54 < mouseghost> methlab?
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2021-06-30T01:04:12 < mawk> are you a network pro now Laurenceb_ ?
2021-06-30T01:04:14 < mawk> what are you doing
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2021-06-30T02:16:35 < BrainDamage> when I grow up I want to work at bplus.tw
2021-06-30T02:16:50 < BrainDamage> they have the most insane things there
2021-06-30T02:16:54 < BrainDamage> eg http://bplus.com.tw/ExtenderBoard/EXM2E.html
2021-06-30T02:17:14 < BrainDamage> m.2 drive plugged in a sd card slot
2021-06-30T02:18:56 < BrainDamage> m.2 to usb http://bplus.com.tw/Adapter/PN12A.html
2021-06-30T02:19:21 < BrainDamage> with a 5g module beecause why not
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2021-06-30T02:29:17 < kakium69> hello mopedium
2021-06-30T02:29:24 < kakium69> new moped bought
2021-06-30T02:31:03 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3PviiknC0Bmi2LvI8ImUo3d1nBO-fAm/view?usp=sharing
2021-06-30T02:31:47 < kakium69> it's the exact same mopedium I have before
2021-06-30T02:31:50 < kakium69> had
2021-06-30T02:31:55 < kakium69> just with the plastics
2021-06-30T02:38:20 < kakium69> I basically looked: xl125v(cheap but takes price to 1.5k with big bore kit) -> cb750(rather old features 2k) ->  cb750f2(modernized but +1k) -> search by price >=570cc -> I see R6 just above 2keur
2021-06-30T02:49:43 < qyx> any idea why my prescaler setting doesn't work?
2021-06-30T02:49:49 < Laurenceb_> mawk: I'm building hyperloop networks system
2021-06-30T02:50:15 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/mCe00
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2021-06-30T02:51:40 < qyx> the timer is still counting at fullspeed
2021-06-30T02:52:50 < kakium69> what should it count?
2021-06-30T02:53:32 < kakium69> is direction_up reduntant?
2021-06-30T02:53:44 < kakium69> as you set it in set_mode?
2021-06-30T02:53:58 < qyx> the prescaler setting doesn't work
2021-06-30T02:54:13 < qyx> it always counts at 32 MHz
2021-06-30T02:54:21 < qyx> preload disabled
2021-06-30T02:54:25 < qyx> I even tried to generate update event
2021-06-30T02:55:18 < kakium69> do you need preload for prescaling?
2021-06-30T02:55:37 < qyx> idk
2021-06-30T02:56:12 < kakium69> I think you do
2021-06-30T02:56:58 < qyx> it is the update event thing
2021-06-30T02:57:06 < qyx> it changes after the timer counts to UINT32_MAX
2021-06-30T02:58:10 < qyx> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/D1wc7
2021-06-30T02:58:11 < qyx> works now
2021-06-30T02:59:02 < kakium69> EGR_UG?
2021-06-30T02:59:58 < karlp> kakium69:.... that... doesn't look like what I'd call a moped in any world...
2021-06-30T03:00:53 < kakium69> well it's not big boi motorcycle neither
2021-06-30T03:01:03 < kakium69> so it must be moped
2021-06-30T03:01:17 < qyx> no
2021-06-30T03:08:39 < kakium69> nobody buys 600cc japanise plastic missile for midlife crisis
2021-06-30T03:09:21 < kakium69> it must be classic look or big or have 200hp
2021-06-30T03:10:40 < kakium69> if plastic missile 1000cc is minimum
2021-06-30T03:25:15 < Mangy_Dog> id like a nice 100hp bike
2021-06-30T03:25:25 < Mangy_Dog> but in the 600-700 cc range
2021-06-30T03:25:50 < Mangy_Dog> i currently ride a er6f kinda want a bit bigger
2021-06-30T03:26:06 < kakium69> ye
2021-06-30T03:26:20 < kakium69> prices go up steeply just there
2021-06-30T03:27:18 < kakium69> when you leave that 600cc 100hp realm
2021-06-30T03:29:46 < kakium69> but there is not much price difference if you want 100hp 600cc.. but that 100hp is usually in mopeds were you need to ride in egg position
2021-06-30T03:30:42 < BrainDamage> crotch rocket?
2021-06-30T03:30:53 < kakium69> ah.. exactly!
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2021-06-30T03:31:56 < kakium69> handlebar is lower than seat
2021-06-30T03:34:34 < kakium69> I think they figured it out in last 5-10years that people want upright driving position performance models
2021-06-30T03:38:12 < bitmask> fuckin hell
2021-06-30T03:38:30 < qyx> did you paint your bed white
2021-06-30T03:38:58 < bitmask> who me? that happened a few days ago, today nothing wants to work
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2021-06-30T03:56:28 < bitmask> why wont this damn thing get over 12 psi
2021-06-30T03:57:19 < BrainDamage> are the hydro dip paints non toxic?
2021-06-30T03:57:32 < BrainDamage> because i'd totally try to put my arms in
2021-06-30T03:57:45 < bitmask> who knows :P
2021-06-30T03:58:13 < bitmask> its the activator that im worried about
2021-06-30T03:58:21 < bitmask> since you gotta spray it
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2021-06-30T03:58:32 < bitmask> and i have no idea what it is other than its flammable
2021-06-30T03:59:48 < bitmask> that was a failure today too, the refillable spray can i got doesnt work well at 55 PSI which is the best my airbrush compressor can do
2021-06-30T04:00:21 < kakium69> ar you doing plastidip?
2021-06-30T04:01:04 < bitmask> ? 
2021-06-30T04:01:04 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-06-30T04:01:06 < bitmask> no
2021-06-30T04:01:44 < bitmask> not sure what you're referring to, whats it for or what in the can
2021-06-30T04:04:27 < kakium69> zzz>
2021-06-30T04:05:02 < bitmask> oh.. of course
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2021-06-30T09:20:05 < qyx> The easiness of STM32Cube & the completeness of Azure RTOS middleware for free!
2021-06-30T09:20:07 < qyx> what about no
2021-06-30T09:24:38 < t4nk_fn> heh, I didn't even realise that not only will there be a tax change for china... they'll also tax eu-eu orders!
2021-06-30T09:25:40 < qyx> you mean the brits
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2021-06-30T09:26:31 < t4nk_fn> well... I always assumed eu-eu would be free
2021-06-30T09:26:45 < t4nk_fn> read it just now, maybe it was fake
2021-06-30T09:27:09 < qyx> yes it should be free
2021-06-30T09:27:32 < t4nk_fn> thing is... it wouldn't have surprised me if they'd pulled it off...
2021-06-30T09:27:43 < t4nk_fn> it's the upside down world and all
2021-06-30T09:27:45 < t4nk_fn> heh
2021-06-30T09:27:50 < qyx> any citation?
2021-06-30T09:28:05 < t4nk_fn> lemme have a look if I can recall it
2021-06-30T09:30:55 < t4nk_fn> ah, I think I misread
2021-06-30T09:32:16 < t4nk_fn> they were on about china, but then they said that it would apply to all ..... non-eu orders.... and I read eu orders ;)
2021-06-30T09:32:24 < t4nk_fn> it's a dutch site, no use in pasting
2021-06-30T09:32:49 < t4nk_fn> wanna know how I got to this? welllllll
2021-06-30T09:33:04 < t4nk_fn> I thought I fried my f407vet6 board ;)
2021-06-30T09:34:26 < t4nk_fn> and where best to buy one but just south of Uzbekistan.
2021-06-30T09:35:47 < t4nk_fn> I still think 'leveling the playing field' is a lousy excuse for 'you will now have to pay triple while we buy our stuff from china and sell it to you'
2021-06-30T09:38:59 < specing> now with the removal of the 22 eur vat exemption they hope to force us to use EU middlemen
2021-06-30T09:39:07 < specing> instead of having this shit produced inthe EU
2021-06-30T09:39:21 < specing> EU is middlemen all the way down
2021-06-30T09:39:40 < t4nk_fn> bah.
2021-06-30T09:41:53 < specing> and the worst isnt the VAT, but the customs handling fees charged by post office
2021-06-30T09:42:03 < specing> 2.5 eur fee for a $1 package
2021-06-30T09:42:16 < t4nk_fn> yes, PostNL is laughing their behinds off over this
2021-06-30T09:42:17 < specing> previously it was 5eur
2021-06-30T09:42:38 < t4nk_fn> 13euro's for us... just for handling a customs paper
2021-06-30T09:45:14 < t4nk_fn> but: shut up, take it, we'll decide for you, resistance is futile and most of all do not raise questions about anything
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2021-06-30T09:55:59 < specing> I wonder if its possible to make a deal with chinese shop to keep sending until customs gives up
2021-06-30T09:56:05 < specing> and you reject the package
2021-06-30T09:56:33 < specing> N repeat postages are probably cheaper than that 13 eur fee
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2021-06-30T13:15:33 < karlp> what makes you think customs would "give up" ?
2021-06-30T13:16:41 < ventYl> and, is 13 eur fee really that big? simply order more stuff. with today prices of components it is not a big problem
2021-06-30T13:18:16 < karlp> fuck off ventyl
2021-06-30T13:18:19 < karlp> don't be so fucking dumb
2021-06-30T13:19:02 < zyp> with the VAT prepayment stuff EU is introducing, you avoid the need for customs handling (and fee) by postnl
2021-06-30T13:19:30 < ventYl> well, before, DHL used to charge like 25 EUR for this
2021-06-30T13:21:04 < zyp> the problem with the norwegian system is that sellers tend to fuck it up
2021-06-30T13:21:37 < zyp> I bought a hotair station from aliexpress, and aliexpress collected 25% VAT
2021-06-30T13:22:20 < zyp> and then it didn't get marked correctly with the VOEC ID, so DHL processed it like usual and sent me a bill for another 25% VAT plus handling fee
2021-06-30T13:23:27 < zyp> but IDGAF, I bought it for my VAT registered business, so I'm just filing both charges for a VAT refund
2021-06-30T13:27:57 < zyp> here's my filed VAT refunds for June: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KoALN.png
2021-06-30T13:28:14 < zyp> the 420 is what aliexpress collected and the 416 is what DHL collected, for the same product
2021-06-30T13:30:16 < sauce> karlp: everything ok? you seem on edge lately
2021-06-30T13:34:22 < Steffanx> Lol. I wasn't going to say it
2021-06-30T13:34:56 < Steffanx> A volcano about to explode?
2021-06-30T13:38:22 < Steffanx> Did you drop all your prefixes now, sauce? No more ultra no more gargantua?
2021-06-30T13:38:48 < sauce> not even open
2021-06-30T13:40:16 < karlp> sauce: these sorts of customs fees are bullshit, and I've been dealing with them for years,
2021-06-30T13:40:25 < karlp> to see someone just go, "oh, just buy more" is fucking bullshit
2021-06-30T13:40:52 < sauce> yeah i was more referring to your attitude in general lately
2021-06-30T13:41:04 < karlp> maybe there's been more bullshit recently?
2021-06-30T13:41:04 < sauce> you certainly dont have to sell me on international shipping being a pain in the ass
2021-06-30T13:41:35 < karlp> but hey, we bought a summerhouse: http://tweak.net.au/pics2/2021/June/summerhouse/page_1.html
2021-06-30T13:41:48 < zyp> nice
2021-06-30T13:42:06 < sauce> that is a very uniform interior
2021-06-30T13:43:01 < zyp> even EV chargers nearby
2021-06-30T13:44:10 < sauce> Steffanx: unfortunately i failed to take into account how often people discuss condiments on irc
2021-06-30T14:05:59 < Steffanx> Hah
2021-06-30T14:12:26 < qyx> wasnt the sole prupose of the customs thing to make it easier so you can deal with it on your own and don't have to pay 13/25 whaetver euros?
2021-06-30T14:12:50 < qyx> I was thinking it should be clicky clicky clcicky, done now
2021-06-30T14:12:56 < ventYl> it apparently is
2021-06-30T14:13:15 < ventYl> at least here it seems that you have to pay additional fee, if you delegate customs stuff to postal services
2021-06-30T14:14:24 < ventYl> ok, reason why atmel firmware doesn't communicate over i2c is that I removed i2c driver
2021-06-30T14:14:30 < ventYl> two days wasted
2021-06-30T14:18:36 < qyx> Steffanx: lold, I was about to ask but.. I ofetn say don't poke porcupine with a rake
2021-06-30T14:33:33 < sauce> a rake is probably one of the safer ways to do it though
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2021-06-30T15:29:01 < karlp> oh crap, updated fedora has lua 5.4...
2021-06-30T15:35:17 < Steffanx> I installed fedora a few weeks ago. Went pretty smooth, looks nice, but this gnome dash crap is just awful.  And dash to Dock was still a bit buggy I read, so didn't try
2021-06-30T16:09:15 < karlp> dash to dock? 
2021-06-30T16:09:37 < karlp> I've been using gnome for ages, it's pretty normal for me. don't have any real concerns.
2021-06-30T16:15:07 < Steffanx> Yes, this dock is annoying. I want my always in the view dock/task bar. Windows/macos style
2021-06-30T16:15:13 < Steffanx> Dash.
2021-06-30T16:17:07 < Steffanx> In gnome 40.
2021-06-30T16:34:26 < sauce> excuse me sir, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and saviour Plasma?
2021-06-30T16:53:13 < englishman> i had to go in the office because one of the young bucks was having trouble diagnosing a charging issue
2021-06-30T16:53:23 < englishman> 09:45 problem solved
2021-06-30T16:53:44 < englishman> someone put a 0.1u cap on the PROG pin of MCP73832
2021-06-30T16:54:21 < qyx> hah
2021-06-30T16:54:31 < qyx> is mcp73832 still a thing
2021-06-30T16:56:00 < englishman> yeah, even in stck
2021-06-30T16:56:01 < englishman> stock
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2021-06-30T17:38:21 < karlp> Steffanx:oh, I've grown to quite like not having it there all the time, just winkey to see things if I need.
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2021-06-30T18:21:08  * Laurenceb is failing at windozer 10
2021-06-30T18:21:23 < Laurenceb> I installed OpenVPN, but how do I actually use the connection?
2021-06-30T18:21:54 -!- krjst [~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001] has quit [Quit: bye]
2021-06-30T18:22:28 < sauce> idk have you tried asking on irc instead of reading the documentation
2021-06-30T18:22:31 -!- krjst [~krjst@2604:a880:800:c1::16b:8001] has joined ##stm32
2021-06-30T18:22:41 < mawk> lol
2021-06-30T18:22:51 < mawk> Laurenceb: you get the vpn config from somewhere
2021-06-30T18:22:56 < mawk> then you can tell systemd to start the vpn automatically
2021-06-30T18:23:02 < Laurenceb> >systemd 
2021-06-30T18:23:05 < Laurenceb> >windozer 10
2021-06-30T18:23:26 < mawk> lol
2021-06-30T18:23:31 < mawk> then just read the docs for the windows client
2021-06-30T18:23:38 < mawk> it's probably a GUI it's easy
2021-06-30T18:23:40 < Laurenceb> vpn is running fine, its just unused
2021-06-30T18:23:58 < mawk> then you messed up the routes
2021-06-30T18:24:01 < mawk> if it's not used
2021-06-30T18:24:14 < mawk> are you sure it's a catch-all vpn and not just like a site-to-site vpn?
2021-06-30T18:24:54 < Laurenceb> I dunno lol
2021-06-30T18:25:11 < Laurenceb> prob setup as private network for hyperloop sensors
2021-06-30T18:25:31 < Laurenceb> yeah windows taskbar says it has no internet connectivity
2021-06-30T18:25:43 < mawk> if it's a private network why do you expect windows to use it as the main route
2021-06-30T18:25:48 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-30T18:25:51 < mawk> the vpn is there, now just try to ping the ip of a device on the other side
2021-06-30T18:25:54 < mawk> open cmd.exe and ping it
2021-06-30T18:25:58 < Laurenceb> k
2021-06-30T18:27:21 < Laurenceb> I can ping the dhcp server, but it might be present on regular internets
2021-06-30T18:27:31 < Laurenceb> how do I traceroute on windows?
2021-06-30T18:30:30 < Laurenceb> oh cool tracert works
2021-06-30T18:30:32 < Laurenceb> nice
2021-06-30T18:30:44 < Laurenceb> now I need a way to haxor probe the network
2021-06-30T18:32:53 < Laurenceb> ah cool NetBIOS is working
2021-06-30T18:45:05 < karlp> here, look at these funny science units.  hoho, what a laugh! https://bin.jvnv.net/file/qXD9e.png
2021-06-30T18:49:52 < fenugrec> at least those look like E12/E24 values
2021-06-30T18:50:22 < fenugrec> except maybe 4.1
2021-06-30T18:53:25 < karlp> just makes my head hurt decoding back to engineering :)
2021-06-30T18:54:18 -!- unmanbearpig [~unmanbear@45.76.95.141] has quit [Quit: unmanbearpig]
2021-06-30T18:59:40 < mawk> Laurenceb: use nmap
2021-06-30T18:59:43 < mawk> to hax0r probe
2021-06-30T18:59:48 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T18:59:52 < mawk> or use a network mapper GUI for widoz
2021-06-30T18:59:56 < mawk> if you don't like command line
2021-06-30T19:00:08 < Laurenceb> looks like I'm in a subnet thats part of multiple subnets
2021-06-30T19:00:10 < Laurenceb> nasty
2021-06-30T19:00:30 < mawk> what do you mean
2021-06-30T19:00:36 < mawk> usually openvpn has its dedicated subnet/ip range Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:00:41 < mawk> and then IP translation takes place at the other side
2021-06-30T19:00:48 < mawk> like 10.0.0.0/24 is mapped to 192.168.0.0/24 or whatever
2021-06-30T19:00:49 < Laurenceb> I'm connected to an off the shelf system
2021-06-30T19:00:57 < mawk> so you may have to read up on the IP mapping
2021-06-30T19:01:00 < mawk> yeah that doesn't matter
2021-06-30T19:01:14 < Laurenceb> my VPN exit point is inside a small subnet with its own DHCP and potentially DNS
2021-06-30T19:01:22 < mawk> ah
2021-06-30T19:01:23 < Laurenceb> my sensors are in another subnet
2021-06-30T19:01:28 < mawk> and there is a router to talk to the other subnet?
2021-06-30T19:01:38 < Laurenceb> yeah but I dont know its capabilities
2021-06-30T19:01:38 < mawk> a router that is located in both networks
2021-06-30T19:01:45 < mawk> well you don't need to know the capabilities
2021-06-30T19:01:47 < mawk> you only need its IP
2021-06-30T19:01:50 < Laurenceb> this is like regular internets in miniature
2021-06-30T19:01:57 < mawk> then you tell windows "for this subnet, please hop through $ROUTER_IP"
2021-06-30T19:01:59 < mawk> and you're done
2021-06-30T19:02:00 < Laurenceb> only no STUN servers in here
2021-06-30T19:02:10 < mawk> you don't need stun here
2021-06-30T19:02:36 < mawk> usually this kind of routing is done by openvpn directly as indicated in the openvpn config
2021-06-30T19:02:42 < Laurenceb> I dont even know if there is a shared dynamic DNS
2021-06-30T19:02:43 < mawk> if it's not the case, talk to the guy that gave you the openvpn config
2021-06-30T19:02:47 < mawk> you don't need dns
2021-06-30T19:02:54 < mawk> unless it's a weirdo network with dynamic ip
2021-06-30T19:03:03 < Laurenceb> NetBIOS is firewalled
2021-06-30T19:03:05 < mawk> but then there are other means to resolve IP addresses; for instance we use a custom system
2021-06-30T19:03:10 < mawk> we query a website that tells us the IP
2021-06-30T19:03:10 < Laurenceb> to within the subnet
2021-06-30T19:03:15 < mawk> netbios is for losers
2021-06-30T19:03:21 < mawk> are you sure it's not windows that firewalls it?
2021-06-30T19:03:25 < mawk> check your windoz firewall
2021-06-30T19:03:37 < mawk> use mdns and not netbios
2021-06-30T19:03:40 < mawk> like a real network admin
2021-06-30T19:03:41 < fenugrec> wow, ebay wants direct access to my bank acct now ? lol
2021-06-30T19:03:46 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2021-06-30T19:03:53 < mawk> but it usually doesn't hop through networks Laurenceb so I don't know why you're mentionning netbios
2021-06-30T19:04:00 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T19:04:03 < mawk> if your sensors are not in the same subnet, they wouldn't answer even f it weren't firewalled
2021-06-30T19:04:11 < mawk> so you need another system to resolve the IP if you don't know them beforehand
2021-06-30T19:04:13 < Laurenceb> mawk: how can I get full info from DHCP?
2021-06-30T19:04:22 < Xogium> hmm any of you guys ever worked with a grove connector ? Like what seeed puts on their board
2021-06-30T19:04:23 < mawk> there's no standard mechanism for that
2021-06-30T19:04:28 < Laurenceb> one of my sensors has NTP server so it should show up
2021-06-30T19:04:33 < mawk> you can see if your router has some kind of web API to tell you its DHCP database
2021-06-30T19:04:53 < fenugrec> Xogium, isnt that just vss/vcc + i2c or spi
2021-06-30T19:04:57 < Laurenceb> huh wikipedia says DHCP server can pass you config for DNS and NTP?
2021-06-30T19:05:07 < mawk> yes of course
2021-06-30T19:05:21 < Laurenceb> so how do I read it?
2021-06-30T19:05:25 < mawk> dhcp servers tell a client the IP addresses they should use, as well as DNS and maybe NTP servers
2021-06-30T19:05:39 < mawk> well I think you're mistaken on which direction the config passing takes place
2021-06-30T19:05:45 < mawk> DHCP tells every client which NTP server they need to use
2021-06-30T19:05:50 < Laurenceb> sure
2021-06-30T19:05:52 < mawk> but clients don't ask DHCP server for neighboring NTP servers
2021-06-30T19:05:57 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-30T19:06:00 < mawk> well ask the dhcp server for a lease and see what happens
2021-06-30T19:06:06 < Xogium> fenugrec: I'm not quite sure, I'm only getting to use one now actually and having quite a bit of trouble
2021-06-30T19:06:07 < mawk> but again DHCP doesn't hop through subnets
2021-06-30T19:06:11 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T19:06:11 < mawk> you can only query DHCP servers in your local subnet
2021-06-30T19:06:19 < Laurenceb> I see now
2021-06-30T19:06:28 < mawk> also I don't think DHCP would pass through openvpn with an usual tun configuration
2021-06-30T19:06:44 < mawk> you need to be physically on the network, or use a tap vpn that transmits ethernet frames instead of ipv4 frames
2021-06-30T19:07:16 < Laurenceb> huh?
2021-06-30T19:07:17 < mawk> since openvpn is using broadcast stuff
2021-06-30T19:07:22 < mawk> but maybe it would work, you can try
2021-06-30T19:07:27 < Laurenceb> how else can I get my ip address?
2021-06-30T19:07:29 < mawk> well openvpn is the one giving you your IP, not the dhcp server
2021-06-30T19:07:35 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-30T19:07:39 < mawk> openvpn maintains its own small pool of addresses to give to clients
2021-06-30T19:07:43 < Laurenceb> oh
2021-06-30T19:07:47 < Laurenceb> this is weird
2021-06-30T19:07:57 < mawk> yeah
2021-06-30T19:08:07 < Laurenceb> there is a DHCP server within the subnet where I exit the VPN
2021-06-30T19:08:21 < mawk> it is dedicated for devices that are physically on this network
2021-06-30T19:08:29 < Laurenceb> and there are max 255 addresses within that subnet
2021-06-30T19:08:31 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-06-30T19:08:35 < mawk> or maybe it's a tap vpn, but it's quite rare; you can open your openvpn configuration and see if it's "tun" or "tap"
2021-06-30T19:08:49 < Laurenceb> ah yeah its tap
2021-06-30T19:08:52 < mawk> like the xml file or whatever they gave you
2021-06-30T19:08:57 < mawk> ah right, then I guess it's using dhcp
2021-06-30T19:09:11 < mawk> probably some hidden windoz menu can tell you the info in the dhcp lease
2021-06-30T19:09:19 < mawk> on linux you'd look into /var/lib/dhcp or something
2021-06-30T19:09:34 < Laurenceb> I see DNS servers in ipconfig/all
2021-06-30T19:09:39 < Laurenceb> but format is weird
2021-06-30T19:09:44 < Xogium> fenugrec: I've been trying to connect this https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Buzzer/ to this https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Seeeduino-XIAO-Expansion-Board/
2021-06-30T19:09:49 < mawk> ah yes ipconfig can tell you some parts of the lease indeed
2021-06-30T19:10:03 < Laurenceb> fec0:0:0:ffff:1%1
2021-06-30T19:10:05 < Laurenceb> ^wtf ?
2021-06-30T19:10:46 < BrainDamage> that's an ipv6 address
2021-06-30T19:11:03 < Laurenceb> ok thats just weird
2021-06-30T19:11:04 < BrainDamage> the the %1 is the index of the ethernet iface
2021-06-30T19:11:22 < Laurenceb> as it wasy IPv4 is preferred
2021-06-30T19:11:26 < Laurenceb> *says
2021-06-30T19:11:26 < Xogium> they were nice and packed a cable for the buzzer which is rather cool but I can't make it beep at all. I connected it to the A7/D7 pin which is the one close to the user button, or so I was told, and trying to make it beep results in no error but no beep either
2021-06-30T19:11:42 < Xogium> so I was wondering if there is any way I could have connected it wrong
2021-06-30T19:12:13 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: is there a subset of reserved ipv6 addresses for lan?
2021-06-30T19:12:33 < karlp> fe80 is link local.
2021-06-30T19:12:35 < mawk> that's ipv6 Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:12:36 < karlp> iirc
2021-06-30T19:12:53 < mawk> yes Laurenceb fc or fd is for lan
2021-06-30T19:12:54 < BrainDamage> yes, fe80
2021-06-30T19:13:01 < karlp> but that's not _lan_
2021-06-30T19:13:05 < mawk> fe80 is link-local
2021-06-30T19:13:12 < karlp> that's just here's a _shit ton_ of addresses you can use on the same link
2021-06-30T19:13:16 < mawk> but usually we try to avoid using the lan prefix Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:13:21 < mawk> so your network admin is a bad admin
2021-06-30T19:13:22 < karlp> there's no _lan_ in v4 either...
2021-06-30T19:13:25 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T19:13:44 < mawk> fec0 is site-local address
2021-06-30T19:13:49 < mawk> so it's like above lan, meta-lan
2021-06-30T19:13:52 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T19:14:01 < mawk> it's routable-but-not-public address
2021-06-30T19:14:19 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-06-30T19:16:14 < Xogium> I'm asking all of this because the grove connector on the expantion board seems kind of looss
2021-06-30T19:16:24 < Xogium> as in not soldered header kind of looss
2021-06-30T19:16:35 < Laurenceb> looks like I might be out of luck here, might have to resort to regular internets and https site to connect
2021-06-30T19:17:03 < Xogium> I can litterally make the cable fall off just with a bit of movement on the desk surface
2021-06-30T19:17:06 < Laurenceb> no obvious way for peer to peer to coordinate inside this horrible lan/wan system
2021-06-30T19:17:43 < kakium69> idk. why I ever wanted 1000cc motorcycle
2021-06-30T19:18:02 < kakium69> 600cc seems to be enought
2021-06-30T19:20:18 < mawk> why would you be out of luck Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:20:30 < mawk> have you tried to contact one of your sensors by ip ?
2021-06-30T19:20:32 < mawk> what's the result?
2021-06-30T19:21:09 < Laurenceb> that works fine
2021-06-30T19:21:28 < Laurenceb> but what if I dont know their ip ?
2021-06-30T19:21:56 < Laurenceb> actually i have an idea, as NetBIOS is enabled maybe DNS will pick up NetBIOS names, that works on my home network
2021-06-30T19:22:32 < mawk> well have you tried mdns or netbios yet Laurenceb ?
2021-06-30T19:22:38 < mawk> why do you expect netbios to work btw
2021-06-30T19:22:41 < mawk> are the sensors windows ?
2021-06-30T19:22:57 < Laurenceb> no but there are some windows devices on the network
2021-06-30T19:23:04 < mawk> have you pushed it hard enough Xogium ?
2021-06-30T19:23:19 < mawk> Laurenceb: you can set up some quick dns system to resolve hostnames inside the network, that's common
2021-06-30T19:23:27 < Laurenceb> I'm sure I could haxor the sensors to register with dynamic dns if it works with something else
2021-06-30T19:23:35 < mawk> ask the router/dhcp server of your sensors to record the hostnames/ip allocation
2021-06-30T19:23:40 < mawk> well that's ugly
2021-06-30T19:23:49 < mawk> all the info needed is on the dhcp server of the sensors
2021-06-30T19:23:51 < Laurenceb> mawk: all the network hardware is an off the shelf closed sores system
2021-06-30T19:23:53 < mawk> so just set up that thing instead 
2021-06-30T19:24:00 < mawk> yeah but maybe it has the option
2021-06-30T19:24:15 < mawk> our off the shelf shitty router at my office does it
2021-06-30T19:24:18 < mawk> it can resolve hostnames
2021-06-30T19:24:21 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-30T19:24:25 < Laurenceb> thats all I need
2021-06-30T19:24:28 < mawk> using the builtin dns server and the builtin dns suffix
2021-06-30T19:24:32 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-30T19:26:23 < Laurenceb> IP Address	Computer Name	Workgroup	MAC Address	Network Adapter Company	Master Browser	
2021-06-30T19:26:23 < Laurenceb> 172.31.100.4	LANLINKSERVER03	WORKGROUP	00-FF-39-8E-7C-DA		No	
2021-06-30T19:26:34 < Laurenceb> should that have a dns entry?
2021-06-30T19:27:48 < mawk> probably, where did you find that?
2021-06-30T19:27:52 < mawk> what's your dns suffix?
2021-06-30T19:27:57 < mawk> ipconfig can tell you
2021-06-30T19:28:12 < Laurenceb> I found it with NetBScanner
2021-06-30T19:28:27 < mawk> net bs scanner
2021-06-30T19:28:37 < mawk> well maybe it has a dns entry, just try it
2021-06-30T19:28:42 < mawk> with the proper suffix
2021-06-30T19:28:57 < Laurenceb> <secrit>.local
2021-06-30T19:29:21 < mawk> what
2021-06-30T19:29:24 < mawk> .local is the dns suffix?
2021-06-30T19:29:27 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-06-30T19:29:28 < mawk> that's illegal
2021-06-30T19:29:31 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-06-30T19:29:38 < mawk> or you mean the suffix is the full secret.local ? which is still illegal anyway
2021-06-30T19:29:43 < mawk> .local should be reserverd for mDNS
2021-06-30T19:29:57 < mawk> it will cause several systems to either fail or take infinite time to resolve
2021-06-30T19:29:58 < Laurenceb> its the full secret.local
2021-06-30T19:30:11 < mawk> maybe you can tweak the dhcp server and put secret.lan instead
2021-06-30T19:30:48 < Laurenceb> wait no thats just Windows IP config
2021-06-30T19:30:55 < Laurenceb> not the specific OpenVPN
2021-06-30T19:31:11 < mawk> ah
2021-06-30T19:31:14 < mawk> but still illegal
2021-06-30T19:31:18 < PaulFertser> kakium69: bought a new bike?
2021-06-30T19:31:24 < mawk> anyway you will need to talk to the dns server given you in the dhcp lease Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:31:31 < Laurenceb> actually there are two entries, second one is .lan
2021-06-30T19:31:36 < mawk> assuming windows kept your default dns server and didn't replac eit with the one from the vpn
2021-06-30T19:31:39 < Laurenceb> maybe the first came from OpenVPN
2021-06-30T19:35:15 < bitmask> hmm should i buy a new compressor
2021-06-30T19:35:33 < Laurenceb> yeah the .local address is for the VPN
2021-06-30T19:35:49 < Laurenceb> .lan is my home network
2021-06-30T19:35:50 < mawk> ok Laurenceb so try to resolve an address like this
2021-06-30T19:35:59 < mawk> $hostname.local using the DNS server of the vpn
2021-06-30T19:36:06 < mawk> you can see the ip of the dns server in ipconfig I presume
2021-06-30T19:36:33 < mawk> then use the nslookup
2021-06-30T19:36:35 < mawk> command
2021-06-30T19:36:43 < mawk> just type nslookup in a cmd windows, and then it's an interactive prompt
2021-06-30T19:37:31 < mawk> try to resolve horsefucker.secret.local
2021-06-30T19:37:33 < englishman> you want a resistor with MILLIONS of ohms??? what the fuck?? we can't afford that!
2021-06-30T19:38:03 < mawk> buy a thousand thousand ohm resistor to structure the books englishman 
2021-06-30T19:39:42 < englishman> second problem with this MCP: someone thought it'd be a good idea to do ORing with a pfet.the body diode is written on the damn schematic
2021-06-30T19:39:55 < Laurenceb> derp
2021-06-30T19:40:10 < Laurenceb> its defaulting to my home network router as dns server, no wonder ifs failing
2021-06-30T19:40:17 < mawk> yes it's what I said Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:40:24 < mawk> you need to explicitly tell nslookup to use the vpn DNS server
2021-06-30T19:40:30 < Laurenceb> ah
2021-06-30T19:46:56 < Laurenceb> hmm I cant get nslookup to accept ipv6
2021-06-30T19:48:17 < mawk> why
2021-06-30T19:48:23 < mawk> enter the address with the % Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:48:28 < mawk> that should do it
2021-06-30T19:48:37 < mawk> or, remove the %1 if it's already there, maybe nslookup doesn't like ti
2021-06-30T19:49:07 < Laurenceb> yeah either case just makes it trop back to router.lan
2021-06-30T19:49:15 < Laurenceb> *drop
2021-06-30T19:51:40 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@c-73-254-117-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
2021-06-30T19:53:35 < mawk> try another program Laurenceb 
2021-06-30T19:53:37 < mawk> to resolve dns
2021-06-30T19:53:43 < mawk> nslookup is too archaic maybe
2021-06-30T19:53:57 < Laurenceb> ok, bbl
2021-06-30T20:14:13 < bitmask> what is better for electromagnets, soft iron or silicon iron (is silicon iron considered soft iron?)
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2021-06-30T21:30:54 < karlp> hrm, battery protection circuit module consumption of ~5-6mAh/month, is that _bad_ or just normal?
2021-06-30T21:31:37 < karlp> looking at page 9 of https://bin.jvnv.net/file/8p4dk/20210304%20Presentation%20Renata%20LiPo%20Webinar%40Embedded.pdf
2021-06-30T21:32:34 < qyx> thats 8 uA average, looks normal to me
2021-06-30T21:32:38 < jpa-> 7µA.. seems pretty normal, though there are better ones that go to lower power standby
2021-06-30T21:33:11 < karlp> man, batteries suck.
2021-06-30T21:33:44 < jpa-> no, that's vacuum cleaners
2021-06-30T21:33:49 < jpa-> batteries batt
2021-06-30T21:33:59 < karlp> hohoho :)
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2021-06-30T22:37:42 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-06-30T23:51:50 < Laurenceb> looks like there is an issue with the VPN I'm connecting to
2021-06-30T23:52:02 < Laurenceb> fec0 should not appear as ipv6 DNS address
2021-06-30T23:52:23 < Laurenceb> is there any way to retrieve all the option data from dhcp?
2021-06-30T23:55:48 < karlp> "easiest" is just wireshark, it decodes it alll...
2021-06-30T23:56:04 < karlp> there's probbly ways of telling whatever client you use as well.
2021-06-30T23:56:09 < karlp> but figuring it out might not be obvious
2021-06-30T23:56:26 < karlp> was the openvpn server setup by a professional or a lolster like yoursself?
2021-06-30T23:56:38 < karlp> anyone know much about pressure washers?
2021-06-30T23:57:23 < karlp> small bosh easy thing looks suitable, and is only 3.5kg, but is 85/94 dB(A) sound pressure /sound power.  the bigger one is 6kg, but is 73/86,
2021-06-30T23:57:29 < karlp> that sounds like it's a _lot_ quieter
2021-06-30T23:57:49 < karlp> 4m/s² vs 1.5m/s² seems like a lot more vibration in the small one too
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 01 00:00:06 2021