--- Log opened Thu Jul 01 00:00:06 2021
--- Day changed Thu Jul 01 2021
2021-07-01T00:00:06 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-01T00:08:03 < Laurenceb> wew
2021-07-01T00:08:08 < Laurenceb> its using MDNS
2021-07-01T00:08:13 < Laurenceb> no wonder I couldnt make it work
2021-07-01T00:10:41 < Laurenceb> wew IGMP too
2021-07-01T00:10:50 < Laurenceb> all the services become evident with wireshark
2021-07-01T00:20:55 < fenugrec> if sound measurements are from 2 different mfgs, all bets are off
2021-07-01T00:24:46 < karlp> samemanufacturer.
2021-07-01T00:24:50 < karlp> different product in their lineup
2021-07-01T00:24:58 < karlp> wouldn't even try comparing otehrwise :)
2021-07-01T00:25:14 < karlp> hrm, summerhouse apparently has 5g coverage...
2021-07-01T00:25:35 < qyx> are you in au now?
2021-07-01T00:30:29 < karlp> no. still i.s
2021-07-01T00:30:31 < karlp> .is
2021-07-01T00:31:58 < fenugrec> .is.au.co.uk
2021-07-01T01:23:01 < GenTooMan> if the sound pressure is for a safety standard they have less leeway in how they do the testing.
2021-07-01T01:25:23 < GenTooMan> also they may have to have an outside lab do it, otherwise regulators will ask for the test results and give verification they did the testing correctly. 
2021-07-01T01:25:56 < BrainDamage> iso9001 certification for SPL on pressure washers
2021-07-01T01:29:57 < GenTooMan> it's not uncommon for companies to get into big trouble over sound levels. They can lead to serious but not obvious problems.
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2021-07-01T01:35:18 < zyp> karlp, dunno, I bought some variant of kärcher k7 with nice flexible hose and decent reel a few months ago
2021-07-01T01:35:31 < zyp> shit's nice, would buy again
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2021-07-01T02:10:43 < qyx> hm, is it a sandongs adapter on that kaercher?
2021-07-01T02:11:14 < qyx> it even has an extension https://images.obi.sk/product/CZ/1500x813/108764_6.jpg
2021-07-01T02:11:49 < qyx> this https://images.obi.sk/product/CZ/1500x813/108764_3.jpg
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2021-07-01T02:31:13 < Laurenceb> is there any way to search a network for DNS servers?
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2021-07-01T03:16:28 < karlp> metasploit maybe.
2021-07-01T03:16:42 < karlp> you can try just randomly spamming dns queries to port 53 on anything you can find,
2021-07-01T03:16:55 < karlp> but, really, yhou need to speak to the grownup that's running your network.
2021-07-01T03:18:11 < karlp> it's https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/easyaquatak-110-06008a7f00-v44173 vs https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/universalaquatak-130-06008a7b00-v43709 here.
2021-07-01T03:18:31 < karlp> karcher "the yellow one" seems to to be the standard. but doesn't appear to be for sale here.
2021-07-01T03:18:39 < karlp> bosch or nilfisk it seems
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2021-07-01T03:45:53 < englishman> im sure all the pumps come from the same chinese company super fancy pumping co. ltd.
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2021-07-01T04:05:43 < qyx> I don't buy those green bosch consumer thingies
2021-07-01T04:06:00 < qyx> they don't endure much
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2021-07-01T10:13:42 < mawk> why do you need a kärcher qyx 
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2021-07-01T10:40:38 < Steffanx> Because its great. Its awesome. Mr mawk.
2021-07-01T10:41:05 < mawk> a little moss makes your terrace feels like the forest
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2021-07-01T11:55:39 < zyp> karlp, one of my friends recently bought this and is apparently happy with it: https://www.clasohlson.com/no/Nilfisk-CORE-140-6-PowerControl-PCA-h&oslash;ytrykkspyler/p/41-4003
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2021-07-01T12:20:41 < Laurenceb> the cringe is real
2021-07-01T12:20:42 < Laurenceb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Simpson
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2021-07-01T12:32:21 < karlp> zyp: thanks, but that one is about double what I was goign to spend, I guess I just have to suck it and see. not sure my demands ar every high anyway :)
2021-07-01T12:41:55 < karlp> right, so "new" (less than 6months) mouse has got a shitty wheel action already.
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2021-07-01T12:58:09 < rajkosto> at least its not double clicking
2021-07-01T12:58:12 < rajkosto> like mine did in first 6 months
2021-07-01T12:58:14 < rajkosto> had to warranty it
2021-07-01T13:04:04 < ventYl> apparently new houses can be shit everywhere
2021-07-01T13:04:05 < karlp> TIL about magneto optic current transformers.
2021-07-01T13:04:12 < karlp> crazy stuff.
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2021-07-01T14:05:00 < sync> karlp: a friend of mine made some of those, it's pretty neat
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2021-07-01T14:31:05 < karlp> seems pretty niche though, apparently accuracy isn't that great, but the fact that it's all optical makes insulation "easy" for big station shits.
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2021-07-01T18:00:57 < bitmask> heyooof
2021-07-01T18:01:21 < Steffanx> Gooday
2021-07-01T18:01:31 < bitmask> how do you do sir
2021-07-01T18:11:18 < Steffanx> Meh.
2021-07-01T18:11:29 < Steffanx> Lpc/nxp is annoying me
2021-07-01T18:47:59 < PaulFertser> It was Philips too back then.
2021-07-01T18:48:09 < PaulFertser> Blame everybody
2021-07-01T18:48:26 < PaulFertser> Seriously, please share the story.
2021-07-01T19:05:15 < mawk> the dutch are always wrong
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2021-07-01T19:38:01 < Laurenceb> n00b question: how do I automate some code that uses scanf?
2021-07-01T19:38:13 < Laurenceb> printf ("%d\r\n",number);
2021-07-01T19:38:16 < Laurenceb> isnt working
2021-07-01T19:39:09 < mawk> are you sure it's not working?
2021-07-01T19:39:14 < mawk> it should definitely work
2021-07-01T19:39:20 < mawk> if you didn't mess with buffering
2021-07-01T19:39:32 < mawk> but just in case add a fflush(stdout); to be sure Laurenceb 
2021-07-01T19:39:34 < mawk> just after
2021-07-01T19:39:39 < Laurenceb> oh shit yeah
2021-07-01T19:39:43 < Laurenceb> its methlab
2021-07-01T19:39:49 < Laurenceb> you always need to flush
2021-07-01T19:39:58 < mawk> because it's steaming shit?
2021-07-01T19:41:23 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-01T19:41:26 < Laurenceb> hmm still no luck
2021-07-01T19:41:35 < Laurenceb> its got to be methlab thats at fault
2021-07-01T19:45:26 < mawk> are you sure the \r is required Laurenceb 
2021-07-01T19:45:29 < machinehum> Anyone here use... Buildroot?
2021-07-01T19:45:30 < mawk> remove that to see
2021-07-01T19:45:36 < mawk> I did once machinehum 
2021-07-01T19:46:06 < machinehum> I quite like it
2021-07-01T19:46:12 < machinehum> Much better than yuckto
2021-07-01T19:46:18 < machinehum> shitbake
2021-07-01T19:56:59 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: I have to check more. But it seems the EMC(external memory controller) is always doing some burst reads (32bit) on my 16bit static memory interface, which is not ideal(read annoying overhead)
2021-07-01T19:57:39 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: what kind of part is that, a Cortex-M based MCU?
2021-07-01T19:57:47 < Steffanx>  
2021-07-01T19:57:54 < Steffanx> You dont want to know. Its ooold.
2021-07-01T19:57:55 < PaulFertser> Are you running something big on it so that you need external memory?
2021-07-01T19:58:26 < PaulFertser> We tried some ARM7 LPC many years ago. Probably even with Ethernet MAC. Was working ok iirc.
2021-07-01T19:58:28 < Steffanx> It's an fpga connected to the interface ;)
2021-07-01T19:59:42 < Steffanx> This is an arm7tdmi. It works fine, but the read cycles are too long. The fgpa simply ignores the additional address change 
2021-07-01T20:00:03 < Steffanx> I still have to re-read the datasheet to check if I'm missing something 
2021-07-01T20:00:28 < Steffanx> But there is talk some newer lpc has a similar issue. Wouldnt be surprised if older ones have it too
2021-07-01T20:01:46 < Steffanx> https://community.nxp.com/t5/LPC-Microcontrollers/EMC-generates-double-read-cycles-for-static-chip-selects/m-p/526828 this ..
2021-07-01T20:03:55 < Steffanx> But it so old. I would expect some similar complaints
2021-07-01T20:04:05 < Steffanx> So I'll go back to the datasheet 😋
2021-07-01T20:04:41 < PaulFertser> Steffanx:  if it's a new product you're developing why is the LPC chip so old? Or are you trying to teach an old dog new tricks?
2021-07-01T20:06:19 < Steffanx> Partially blame the one that picked the mcu. It's somen old product with precompiled libraries in an ancient gcc. So the easiest seemed to be going for some arm7(tdmi) again
2021-07-01T20:07:04 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: that thread is not encouraging indeed.
2021-07-01T20:07:05 < Steffanx> Lpc2468 is actually still manufactured :)
2021-07-01T20:07:29 < Steffanx> But lpc24xx is old so if it did something similar I would expect threads about it
2021-07-01T20:08:06 < PaulFertser> But it says using 32-bit mode with a 16-bit bus helps with the performance.
2021-07-01T20:08:37 < Steffanx> Yeah have to try that. But its for tomorrow. 
2021-07-01T20:09:01 < sauce> oof
2021-07-01T20:09:21 < PaulFertser> The LPC1778/88 and LPC4088 (which are a different chip architecture) have an additional bit in the SYSCON block which blocks these additional unwanted reads.
2021-07-01T20:09:56 < Steffanx> Yeah I read that too
2021-07-01T20:11:24 < PaulFertser> "Without going into detail, I can only say that we have seen problems in previous MCU generations and we have done a patch on the memory interface IP block (coming from ARM). But unfortunately we did not take this patch over to the new Cortex generation."
2021-07-01T20:11:28 < PaulFertser> Brilliant
2021-07-01T20:13:04 < Steffanx> Yeah, especially the "previous mcu generations" made me "worried"
2021-07-01T20:13:52 < Steffanx> But fun... how they probably forgot patch the newer one
2021-07-01T20:15:47 < Steffanx> Unless I should read it like: we fixed it in the past, but forgot the fix in the future
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2021-07-01T20:47:34 < upgrdman> does windows have an easy way to check if two files are identical? like hashing or someshit? they're big files... normally i'd use WinMerge but it seems to require files small enough to be mapped into memory :/
2021-07-01T20:48:08 < karlp> I would _guess_ there's a hash function in powershell somewhere at least?
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2021-07-01T20:55:55 < upgrdman> oh, cool
2021-07-01T20:55:56 < upgrdman> https://superuser.com/questions/245775/is-there-a-built-in-checksum-utility-on-windows-7/898377#898377
2021-07-01T20:58:21 < PaulFertser> there's "fc" command since DOS to compare two files
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2021-07-01T21:01:09 < PaulFertser> And "comp"
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2021-07-01T22:24:40 < Laurenceb> me is failing at windowzer
2021-07-01T22:24:50 < Laurenceb> I just want to read a csv file in c :(
2021-07-01T22:26:09 < Laurenceb> 				if(getline ((char**)&line, &length, fidin) == EOF)
2021-07-01T22:26:10 < Laurenceb> 					break;
2021-07-01T22:26:10 < Laurenceb> 				printf("%s,",line);
2021-07-01T22:27:23 < PaulFertser> And?
2021-07-01T22:27:28 < Laurenceb> no data
2021-07-01T22:27:36 < Laurenceb> unless its all one one line inside the file
2021-07-01T22:27:44 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: wtf do you have that (char**) cast?
2021-07-01T22:27:46 < Laurenceb> really weird, I cant see how that could work
2021-07-01T22:28:04 < Laurenceb> PaulFerster: to stop gcc giving warnings
2021-07-01T22:28:33 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you should be reading the warnings rather than hiding them.
2021-07-01T22:28:57 < Laurenceb> c:\mingw\include\stdio.h:650:1: note: expected 'char ** restrict' but argument is of type 'char (*)[(sizetype)(length)]'
2021-07-01T22:28:57 < Laurenceb>  getline (char ** __restrict__, size_t * __restrict__, FILE * __restrict__);
2021-07-01T22:29:42 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: and how do you declare line?
2021-07-01T22:30:04 < Laurenceb> char line[length];
2021-07-01T22:30:21 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: why are you using getline at all? Have you read its man page?
2021-07-01T22:30:26 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: some GNU function...
2021-07-01T22:30:44 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: why not fgets?
2021-07-01T22:31:17 < Laurenceb> no neat line delimiting
2021-07-01T22:31:24 < Laurenceb> hmm it does malloc I see now
2021-07-01T22:31:38 < Laurenceb> its supposed to work on windows with mingw
2021-07-01T22:31:46 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: char *line and that would just work..
2021-07-01T22:31:56 < Laurenceb> k I'll try
2021-07-01T22:32:43 < PaulFertser> *line = NULL!
2021-07-01T22:33:28 < Laurenceb> yeah still fails
2021-07-01T22:33:54 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: even if you use example from man page verbatim?
2021-07-01T22:33:56 < Laurenceb> so weird how it runs for a single line in the file
2021-07-01T22:34:48 < Laurenceb> ah now it works
2021-07-01T22:34:51 < Laurenceb> oh i see
2021-07-01T22:34:57 < Laurenceb> with a single line it needed to realloc
2021-07-01T22:35:07 < Laurenceb> so it ignored the fact line wasnt null
2021-07-01T22:35:13 < Laurenceb> thanks for pointing that out
2021-07-01T22:41:35 < bitmask> alright i got my parts, now someone design me a piece that puts em all together
2021-07-01T22:41:35 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/9TgR7oa.png
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2021-07-01T23:26:26 < Steffanx> Done. bitmask 
2021-07-01T23:26:34 < bitmask> thanks
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--- Day changed Fri Jul 02 2021
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2021-07-02T00:38:31 < upgrdman> "i'm so excited, my new stm32 board should be delivered soon" ... checks stock on the f7 i need ... "FUCK. 53 week lead time, no one has stock" :/
2021-07-02T00:38:58 < upgrdman> why couldn't covid kill off more people so there'd be less demand for ICs
2021-07-02T00:39:04 < Steffanx> Heh welcome to the club upgrdman 
2021-07-02T00:39:08 < upgrdman> inorite
2021-07-02T00:39:20 < Steffanx> Buy some discovery boards and desolder the f7 you need
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2021-07-02T00:40:10 < upgrdman> does the f7disco use the lqfp144 package?
2021-07-02T00:40:16 < Steffanx> Idk
2021-07-02T00:40:17 < upgrdman> i think i saw one but it was BGA
2021-07-02T00:41:08 < upgrdman> unrelated... did dongs die? i dont see him here or on freenode
2021-07-02T00:43:19 < karlp> he's on telegram, but yeah, freenode fractured shit
2021-07-02T00:43:46 < upgrdman> k
2021-07-02T00:45:47 < Steffanx> He's quite active there
2021-07-02T00:46:42 < karlp> yeah, cats are more tolerated, so he's happy
2021-07-02T00:47:36 < upgrdman> ive never use telegram. does it have ~channels ?
2021-07-02T00:48:38 < karlp> yeah
2021-07-02T00:51:20 < sauce> do join us
2021-07-02T00:55:39 < upgrdman> i'll look into it. guessing i have to use their app, or is their an IRC compat. layer?
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2021-07-02T00:59:26 < karlp> not tht I'm aware of.
2021-07-02T00:59:40 < karlp> I went from having just irc a few years ago, to having discord, irc, telegram, teams.
2021-07-02T00:59:49 < karlp> had slack briefly, but it's gone now thankfully.
2021-07-02T00:59:54 < karlp> so happy to be in the future...
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2021-07-02T01:22:51 < emeb> you can never have enough chat apps
2021-07-02T01:28:18 < BrainDamage> I tunnel everything through matrix so i can have a single program again
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2021-07-02T01:31:59 < mouseghost> karlp, it made me thinking: why is it so that people never want to go away from places such as facebook etc because everyone is already there, but people want to go to places such as facebook, discord w/e?
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2021-07-02T01:35:49 < BrainDamage> i can't parse your sentence
2021-07-02T01:37:37 < sauce> every platform has different designs and dynamics and people and communities have different needs so of course there is migration in multiple directions
2021-07-02T01:55:21 < englishman> what do you do on discord karlp 
2021-07-02T01:55:35 < englishman> every "server" i've joined has been insufferable
2021-07-02T02:07:06 < mouseghost> BrainDamage, eh usual with my talk :(
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2021-07-02T02:59:18 < sauce> discord does have nice webrtc stuff
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2021-07-02T04:58:41 < aandrew> Yeah dickscord is awful
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2021-07-02T09:30:03 < kakium69> hello friendium
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2021-07-02T11:11:46 < Steffanx> So PaulFertser . There was a bit to disable the burst read. A bit not mentioned in the relevant chapter. Yay.
2021-07-02T11:12:13 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: where was it mentioned, in the register description?
2021-07-02T11:16:43 < Steffanx> System control... just like the M3s mentioned on the nxp forum
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2021-07-02T12:03:05 < Laurenceb> Conductor we have a problem
2021-07-02T12:03:34 < Laurenceb> tfw my PhD supervisor is being investigated in connection with premature babby deaths
2021-07-02T12:04:09 < specing> LOL
2021-07-02T12:04:19 < specing> babby shaked too hard maybe
2021-07-02T12:04:22 < Laurenceb> when u are forever cursed by the name on ur thesis
2021-07-02T12:05:38 < Laurenceb> negligence not murder
2021-07-02T12:05:45 < Laurenceb> so that makes it fine r-right
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2021-07-02T12:21:53 < karlp> I dunno about awful, it's just ~same as telegram or slack really. I don't really see any meaningful pros or cons if you're just using it for chat.
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2021-07-02T12:37:12 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: cool, so forum helped in the end :)
2021-07-02T12:37:49 < PaulFertser> kakium69: hey kaki? You got a 600cc bike now?
2021-07-02T12:41:41 < karlp> ventYl: did you see new g0's with two can-fd periphs?
2021-07-02T12:54:51 < ventYl> karlp: not yet. two periphs means two ports, or two completely distinct canfd blocks?
2021-07-02T12:57:17  * karlp shrugs
2021-07-02T12:57:43 < karlp> last day of work today, menat to be writing up some memoirs for when I come back, not looking at can shit I don't use :)
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2021-07-02T13:13:40 < qyx> we can check if they become available sooner than 2025 by any chance
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2021-07-02T15:54:38 < mawk> what did eh do Laurenceb 
2021-07-02T15:58:10 < Laurenceb> mawk: negligence causing babby deaths
2021-07-02T16:00:29 < mawk> yes but what kind
2021-07-02T16:00:32 < mawk> I want the details
2021-07-02T16:09:00 < englishman> personally shaking babbies to justify millions of gbp in babbyshake research
2021-07-02T16:09:19 < mawk> lol
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2021-07-02T17:11:37 < qyx> lol
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2021-07-02T18:45:53 < Laurenceb> I have watched some of my friends and family fall to Extremism, it is a sad and powerless experience. They often may have a tenancy towards using GNU applications, and especially emacs. However over time, they get fixated on that topic, and they spend so much of their time thinking on proving that they are right, that you can no longer rationally
2021-07-02T18:45:54 < Laurenceb> explain to them that they have gone to an unhealthy level, and worse they will start to see you no longer as a friend or at least helpful member of your family, to the enemy, because in their point of view you are the one who has gone so far.
2021-07-02T18:45:54 < Laurenceb> Normally I will either de-friend of block them just because they have became so Toxic, which I really don't want to do, because I do want to help them, but I am unable to help, and blocking them is the easiest solution.
2021-07-02T18:45:55 < Laurenceb> Having a way to report that you are worried about that person to Facebook so that they can use that persons information to determine what are they statistically going to do where, and where their ideas are being influenced, it could allow better control of the extremist information from propagating up to be so common. It can only be a good thing,
2021-07-02T18:45:55 < Laurenceb> Facebook can protect us from more extremists like RMS.
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2021-07-02T18:52:28 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: do you want to hear real news about what russian foreign affairs minister said recently?
2021-07-02T18:52:48 < Laurenceb> nope?
2021-07-02T18:52:53 < Laurenceb> go on then
2021-07-02T18:53:03 < PaulFertser> They're about as absurd as your fake news.
2021-07-02T18:53:58 < PaulFertser> He claimed that "the West" is trying to split up the "worldwide orthodox community" by teaching kids in schools that Jesus Christ was bisexual.
2021-07-02T18:57:47 < PaulFertser> https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4877702
2021-07-02T18:58:40 < aandrew> hahaha
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2021-07-02T23:31:41 < mawk> >The concept of "rules" is also manifested in an attack not only on international law, but also on human nature itself. In schools in a number of Western countries, children are convinced as part of their curriculum that Jesus Christ was bisexual. 
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2021-07-02T23:34:04 < PaulFertser> mawk: this story has a somewhat interesting addendum: after the public expressed their surprise and demanded some proofs from Lavrov the official FO spokeswomen gave a link to a modern play performed in one of schools where a topic of "Christ coming to Earth again; this time in a body of trans-woman" was explored.
2021-07-02T23:34:14 < bitmask> hmm, what radiation source should I buy? I'm thinking something tame like thoriated welding rods and uranium glass beads
2021-07-02T23:34:30 < PaulFertser> Foreign Affairs Ministry I meant
2021-07-02T23:34:41 < PaulFertser> bitmask: for what purpose?
2021-07-02T23:34:50 < bitmask> cloud chamber
2021-07-02T23:34:52 < BrainDamage> perhaps we should starting to do that
2021-07-02T23:35:09 < BrainDamage> I bet both christians and orthodox would be pissed off
2021-07-02T23:35:18 < BrainDamage> it's a win win in my book
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2021-07-02T23:35:37 < BrainDamage> bitmask: chose a alpha or beta emitter
2021-07-02T23:36:10 < mawk> PaulFertser: "in school>s< in a >number< of western countries"
2021-07-02T23:36:13 < mawk> I want more examples
2021-07-02T23:36:13 < bitmask> tritium is mostly all beta so i may get a vial of that
2021-07-02T23:36:23 < PaulFertser> Don't you want to make your chamber sensitive enough for catching cosmic rays?
2021-07-02T23:37:44 < PaulFertser> mawk: there's also a humurous tik-tok video from AU telling a joke about a child telling mom that Christ loved everybody (hence was bisexual) and weared a dress (so also queer/transgender/whomever).
2021-07-02T23:37:46 < bitmask> i dont know how well its gonna work, if i made it bigger (using a condenser or something) I would be better off, but peltier limits me
2021-07-02T23:38:22 < bitmask> i still havent done a temp check to see if its gonna get cold enough for my 10cm sqare copper plate
2021-07-02T23:38:24 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: "christians and orthodox" :D
2021-07-02T23:38:25 < BrainDamage> you can use more than a single peltier, can't you?
2021-07-02T23:38:41 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: yep, that was intentional
2021-07-02T23:38:48 < BrainDamage> just another jab
2021-07-02T23:38:49 < bitmask> sure but 4 seems like a lot
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2021-07-02T23:39:17 < mawk> stack 50 peltier device together bitmask 
2021-07-02T23:39:25 < BrainDamage> you can also use a metal plate, but ofc you'll still need to pump more heat to make up for i
2021-07-02T23:39:28 < mawk> then each peltier only has to deal with the difference temperature between its neighbors
2021-07-02T23:39:34 < mawk> and you can get below absolute zero
2021-07-02T23:39:36 < mawk> 100% guaranteed
2021-07-02T23:39:36 < bitmask> I'm using a copper plate
2021-07-02T23:39:55 < BrainDamage> how are you insulating the chamber?
2021-07-02T23:40:05 < PaulFertser> If you need to cool something in lab conditions probably using a traditional fridge is easier and cheaper.
2021-07-02T23:40:46 < bitmask> I'm using packing foam where I can but its mostly open except for the glass bell jar
2021-07-02T23:41:28 < BrainDamage> yeah, that's not good, try to change shape, eg a square box with a double glass plate
2021-07-02T23:41:42 < BrainDamage> the box can be of a material that insulates well
2021-07-02T23:41:56 < BrainDamage> and this way you can isolate everything but the window
2021-07-02T23:41:58 < bitmask> i might be fine, i havent run any tests yet
2021-07-02T23:42:23 < BrainDamage> then why are you talking about more peltiers? :P
2021-07-02T23:42:32 < bitmask> just running it the peltier got to -35C which is plenty
2021-07-02T23:42:44 < bitmask> BrainDamage I wasnt the one to bring it up :P
2021-07-02T23:44:15 < bitmask> it was hot in the room at the time of that test too, im not sure how much the copper plate is going to affect it though
--- Day changed Sat Jul 03 2021
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2021-07-03T01:20:42 < kakium69> nightium
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2021-07-03T02:06:18 < qyx> https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Software-Defined-Radio-for-Engineers-2018/SDR4Engineers.pdf
2021-07-03T02:06:30 < qyx> looks usefuil
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2021-07-03T05:12:36 < bitmask> wtf, i just found a cloud chamber build thats so close to mine its scary
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2021-07-03T15:20:39 < Jak_o_Shadows> I really tried to use Zephyr
2021-07-03T15:20:49 < Jak_o_Shadows> Instead of just loc3
2021-07-03T15:21:09 < Jak_o_Shadows> Just didn't work well for me. Half the things you want aren't implemented for the F1
2021-07-03T15:21:59 < Jak_o_Shadows> Like, there is no interface to the timers
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2021-07-03T15:39:58 < Jak_o_Shadows> I think I'll give up on zephyr
2021-07-03T15:40:18 < Jak_o_Shadows> Maybe I'll try NuttX, Azure/ThreadX, or Chibi
2021-07-03T15:42:11 < Laurenceb> >Azure wut
2021-07-03T15:42:29 < Laurenceb> >microsoft cloud on stm32
2021-07-03T15:42:31 < Jak_o_Shadows> https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/rtos/#components
2021-07-03T15:42:34 < Laurenceb> lmao
2021-07-03T15:43:04 < Jak_o_Shadows> Yeah, like, they couldn't think of another name?
2021-07-03T15:44:15 < Jak_o_Shadows> But yeah, either have your HAL be complete, or give me an easy way to drop back down and do it myself
2021-07-03T15:52:19 < englishman> does microsoft let you rent compute time on a stm32f1
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2021-07-03T16:01:32 < mouseghost> Jak_o_Shadows, just use github copilot and get the code for free duh
2021-07-03T16:03:18 < Jak_o_Shadows> I am 100% sure that is not going to work
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2021-07-03T16:04:08 < Jak_o_Shadows> I'm about 75% of the way to giving up and falling back to loc3
2021-07-03T16:05:04 < mouseghost> whats loc3?
2021-07-03T16:05:06 < mouseghost> ahh
2021-07-03T16:05:08 < mouseghost> libopencm3
2021-07-03T16:05:30 < fenugrec> locm3 != rtos...
2021-07-03T16:06:05 < Jak_o_Shadows> No, but the RTOS part was just as much for the learning process
2021-07-03T16:06:48 < Jak_o_Shadows> and well, RTOS' for the F1 that include a HAL? A little rare
2021-07-03T16:07:53 < fenugrec> wtf, freertos was bought by amazon ? when
2021-07-03T16:08:56 < Steffanx> Ages ago
2021-07-03T16:09:06 < fenugrec> news trickles slow under this rock
2021-07-03T16:09:49 < mawk> like 2 years
2021-07-03T16:10:13 < fenugrec> what else, has ST acquired the msp430 division
2021-07-03T16:10:29 < mawk> almost
2021-07-03T16:15:02 < Jak_o_Shadows> Hmm, Apache MyNewt seems to use STMCube
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2021-07-03T16:56:38 < Steffanx> msp420 is hot
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2021-07-03T17:17:28 < Helmholtz1> Do you use structured formats like json,MessagePack in your embedded development?
2021-07-03T17:17:37 < Helmholtz1> Like json over UART or Protobuf over BLE?
2021-07-03T17:34:19 < Sadale> I've seen that
2021-07-03T17:34:33 < Sadale> I've seen json
2021-07-03T17:35:17 < Sadale> I think I've seen another message serialization as well. It's a binary one. I couldn't remember if it's messagepack tho
2021-07-03T17:42:13 < Helmholtz1> Sadale,  CBOR?
2021-07-03T17:42:46 < Sadale> Helmholtz1, oh. that could be it. It's been a few years ago so I'm not entirely sure.
2021-07-03T17:43:09 < Sadale> Anyway I've seen json over UART.
2021-07-03T17:43:45 < Streaker> gross
2021-07-03T17:44:00 < Sadale> I think that json message parsing on lower end microcontroller could consume a lot of resources tho. And I wouldn't recommend that unless you absolutely have to.
2021-07-03T17:44:10 < Sadale> gross? Doesn't matter. I got paid to do that xD
2021-07-03T17:44:24 < Helmholtz1> Sadale, Yeah that's kinda the reason d'eter of MessagePack
2021-07-03T17:44:36 < Helmholtz1> It's between json and ProtocolBuffers
2021-07-03T17:44:48 < Helmholtz1> But I've only seen raw C struct passing or sprintf
2021-07-03T17:44:58 < Helmholtz1> I wonder why these stuff are not used commonly
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2021-07-03T17:53:18 < R2COM> yo
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2021-07-03T19:21:30 < qyx> helI use protobuf
2021-07-03T19:57:44 < mouseghost> qyx, hmm?
2021-07-03T19:58:02 < mouseghost> oh, that was re helm
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2021-07-03T21:01:19 < BrainDamage> englishman: got that spectrum analyzer, it's quite nice
2021-07-03T21:01:31 < BrainDamage> the fancy audio vfd
2021-07-03T21:01:39 < englishman> cool!
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2021-07-03T21:25:42 < bitmask> I think I went a little crazy ordering radioactive sources
2021-07-03T21:26:16 < BrainDamage> radioactive bitscout
2021-07-03T21:26:59 < bitmask> americium from a smoke detector, fiestaware with uranium oxide, uranium glass beads, thoriated tig welding rods
2021-07-03T21:27:51 < BrainDamage> you can extract thorium from lantern mantles
2021-07-03T21:28:10 < bitmask> yea i know but they are big and not worth the hassle 
2021-07-03T21:28:13 < BrainDamage> you need to heat them up in presence of lithium
2021-07-03T21:29:54 < bitmask> smoke detector is almost purely alpha particles, i forget what thorium and uranium emit but im sure some combination, not sure if I should get a purely beta emitter like tritium
2021-07-03T21:30:45 < BrainDamage> the element by itself will emit a single particle, thing is, once it decays into something else, that something else can also be in turn radioactive
2021-07-03T21:30:57 < BrainDamage> that's called a decay chain
2021-07-03T21:31:36 < Xogium> can I ask why you bought all of that  ? Curiosity on my part hehe
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2021-07-03T21:32:32 < bitmask> yea true, wasnt thinking about that, but some things like americium are very slow to decay and the next step in the decay chain is pretty stable having a half life of hundreds of years 
2021-07-03T21:32:50 < bitmask> Xogium I'm building a cloud chamber
2021-07-03T21:33:03 < Xogium> what is that ?
2021-07-03T21:33:37 < BrainDamage> like a foggy day, but confined to a box
2021-07-03T21:33:52 < bitmask> you get a plate on the base to at least -25C and then get alcohol vapor super saturated on top of it, it makes alpha and beta particles visible
2021-07-03T21:33:54 < BrainDamage> radiation passing through it leaves visible trails
2021-07-03T21:33:55 < bitmask> you can see trails
2021-07-03T21:34:40 < bitmask> so you can see normal background radiation occasionally but if you put in a radioactive source you see a lot more activity
2021-07-03T21:37:10 < bitmask> i didnt realize radon could be a problem but I think my tiny collection is safe
2021-07-03T21:38:36 < BrainDamage> just don't leave it in your bedroom
2021-07-03T21:38:43 < bitmask> in the attic it goes
2021-07-03T21:39:20 < bitmask> i wish geiger counters were cheaper
2021-07-03T21:39:42 < bitmask> cant justify the cost for just my little collection
2021-07-03T21:40:07 < Xogium> hmm
2021-07-03T21:40:11 < BrainDamage> you can get a used one for 20-30 bucks
2021-07-03T21:40:14 < Xogium> that sounds like a nice project
2021-07-03T21:40:22 < BrainDamage> the question is if it's calibrated
2021-07-03T21:40:58 < bitmask> true but its probably fine if you test normal background radiation and go from there
2021-07-03T21:41:08 < bitmask> not like it needs to be accurate for this
2021-07-03T21:41:19 < bitmask> any increase will tell you what you need to know
2021-07-03T21:41:21 < BrainDamage> also, ion chambers are easy to diy
2021-07-03T21:41:56 < BrainDamage> you're assuming the geiger counter is sufficiently sensitive to read background, not all are
2021-07-03T21:42:13 < BrainDamage> on top of that, they aren't sensitive to all types of energies and radiations
2021-07-03T21:42:28 < BrainDamage> eg alpha will hardly pass through the glass bulb
2021-07-03T21:42:40 < BrainDamage> and for beta they need special windows
2021-07-03T21:43:02 < BrainDamage> and even there, not all energies are the same
2021-07-03T21:43:03 < bitmask> yea most cheaper ones dont read alpha, but beta and gamma are the only ones i care about
2021-07-03T21:43:28 < bitmask> though i dont know if beta can get through any thickness of lead
2021-07-03T21:43:47 < BrainDamage> no, it get stopped easily by any metal
2021-07-03T21:44:01 < BrainDamage> even al foil
2021-07-03T21:44:03 < bitmask> so its just gamma im worried about and i dont think my sources are really an issue
2021-07-03T21:44:17 < bitmask> i bought a sheet of lead foil to line a container
2021-07-03T21:44:54 < bitmask> i wanna print a container so i can hide the lead between layers so i dont have to worry about touching it, although id be washing my hands because of the radiation sources anyway and wearing gloves
2021-07-03T21:45:07 < Xogium> gama is down right nasty as you need a tery thick enclosure made of concret to even begin blocking
2021-07-03T21:45:22 < Xogium> *very
2021-07-03T21:46:12 < BrainDamage> if the uranium is embedded in glass you won't have particular problems
2021-07-03T21:46:20 < BrainDamage> it's pretty well locked there
2021-07-03T21:46:58 < bitmask> yea the uranium glass beads are the worst source, most alpha particles are blocked by the glass and theres low activity
2021-07-03T21:48:21 < bitmask> the only source i ordered that could cause problems with crumbling and creating dust is the broken shard of fiestaware, i wonder if coating it in a thin layer of epoxy would be a good idea
2021-07-03T21:48:36 < BrainDamage> if you shine uv you can get it to glow green
2021-07-03T21:48:41 < bitmask> yup
2021-07-03T21:48:47 < BrainDamage> that's where the movie stereotype comes from
2021-07-03T21:50:22 < bitmask> why are all soft iron rods so thick
2021-07-03T21:50:37 < bitmask> i want one thats like 1-2mm diameter and most are 3-5
2021-07-03T22:10:27 < Steffanx> Roll it to 1-2mm
2021-07-03T22:11:20 < Steffanx> What fancy vfd did BrainDamage  get?
2021-07-03T22:11:42 < Steffanx> I recall something, but not if it were here or telegrams -_-
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2021-07-03T23:04:44 < BrainDamage> https://www.nobsound.ltd/metal-vfd-clock-music-spectrum-display-dot-matrix-sound-level-indicator-vu-meter-p2890891.html
2021-07-03T23:09:42 < bitmask> hmm, my humira is arriving a day late, that shouldnt matter... i hope
2021-07-03T23:10:38 < bitmask> thats a neat display
2021-07-03T23:14:07 < kakium69> hello earlium
2021-07-03T23:15:52 < PaulFertser> kakium69: hi. Did you get a new bike?
2021-07-03T23:16:09 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-03T23:16:14 < kakium69> same moped again
2021-07-03T23:16:21 < kakium69> yzf-r6
2021-07-03T23:16:38 < kakium69> this one in good condition
2021-07-03T23:16:50 < englishman> thats not really a moped is it
2021-07-03T23:16:57 < englishman> theres no ped
2021-07-03T23:17:17 < PaulFertser> kakium69: congrats :) You really like plastic ;)
2021-07-03T23:17:45 < kakium69> I like what the bike gets me for my euro
2021-07-03T23:17:59 < kakium69> it gets many things
2021-07-03T23:18:00 < englishman> there is a company that imports urals here but they are crazy money
2021-07-03T23:18:56 < englishman> very nice bike there kaks
2021-07-03T23:19:46 < PaulFertser> kakium69: but in what cases is it better for you than a similar naked bike?
2021-07-03T23:19:55 < PaulFertser> kakium69: also, does it have ABS?
2021-07-03T23:20:00 < kakium69> I have concluded that all desirable motorcycle models have got 20% more expensive as used this summer
2021-07-03T23:21:02 < PaulFertser> kakium69: and what about fz8 or similar, why do you prefer r6, when does it excel?
2021-07-03T23:21:34 < kakium69> PaulFertser: 1) air interference driving over 80kmh 2) better handling on twisted roads 3) better braking distances
2021-07-03T23:21:37 < bitmask> hmm, buna-n rubber has a temp limit of -37C, hope its ok being at that limit
2021-07-03T23:21:59 < kakium69> 4) better factory look - no sodomy visible
2021-07-03T23:22:27 < kakium69> ofc naked can be nice but 90% it's just sodomized from dropped bike
2021-07-03T23:22:52 < kakium69> 90% of time
2021-07-03T23:23:45 < kakium69> fz8 seems to be triple the price of my moped PaulFertser.. there is no comparison
2021-07-03T23:23:58 < kakium69> I mean the cheapest used ones
2021-07-03T23:24:05 < PaulFertser> kakium69: what year did you get? With/without ABS? What options?
2021-07-03T23:24:25 < kakium69> "my finger is ABS kekekeke"
2021-07-03T23:24:35 < PaulFertser> I take it as no :(
2021-07-03T23:24:53 < kakium69> it's from 2000s what to expect?
2021-07-03T23:25:16 < PaulFertser> kakium69: btw, do I get it right that in normal conditions it's more likely to do stoppie rather than skid the front when braking?
2021-07-03T23:25:44 < kakium69> sure
2021-07-03T23:26:34 < kakium69> or you lose composure before stoppie as you were not propperly seated
2021-07-03T23:26:57 < kakium69> and lose control
2021-07-03T23:27:37 < PaulFertser> Please be careful kakium69 . I knew someone who had the same model...
2021-07-03T23:28:02 < kakium69> and he swore by the specific model?
2021-07-03T23:28:09 < kakium69> the bestest
2021-07-03T23:28:42 < PaulFertser> iirc he had it for many years
2021-07-03T23:29:17 < bitmask> hmm, can you drill through rubber? :P
2021-07-03T23:29:58 < kakium69> PaulFertser: it's that good.. he had it for years!
2021-07-03T23:30:26 < kakium69> it's the analog experience
2021-07-03T23:31:05 < kakium69> PaulFertser: so what happend?
2021-07-03T23:31:06 < PaulFertser> Guess it was good while it lasted, yes.
2021-07-03T23:32:34 < kakium69> city traffic or countryside road?
2021-07-03T23:33:28 < PaulFertser> kakium69: nighttime city riding, car doing a u-turn or something, speed too high or brakes working not exactly perfect, crash, death. Full stop.
2021-07-03T23:33:40 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-03T23:34:11 < kakium69> the case of vehicle violating right of way
2021-07-03T23:35:18 < kakium69> it's a bitch
2021-07-03T23:35:27 < PaulFertser> You have to take into account that car drivers can not imagine how you can do 0--100 in 3.5 seconds without switching from the 1st.
2021-07-03T23:36:05 < kakium69> and I always do
2021-07-03T23:36:07 < kakium69> every time
2021-07-03T23:37:40 < kakium69> I wonder if the dual headlight is dangerous
2021-07-03T23:38:09 < kakium69> you could imagine it being a car maybe..
2021-07-03T23:42:03 < kakium69> I dont drive like crazy in dark though
2021-07-03T23:42:16 < kakium69> too much wildlife
2021-07-03T23:42:26 < kakium69> and some wont fit under front tyre
2021-07-03T23:47:50 < kakium69> I'm sorry for what happend to your friend PaulFertser
2021-07-03T23:48:15 < PaulFertser> kakium69: he was a friend of a friend, but it's still a loss.
2021-07-03T23:48:29 < kakium69> was it recently or years back?
2021-07-03T23:48:38 < PaulFertser> 3 years back
2021-07-03T23:51:48 < PaulFertser> kakium69: https://vk.com/motomsk_dtp?w=wall-88151910_71356
2021-07-03T23:54:27 < kakium69> translations are just cryptic
2021-07-03T23:54:37 < kakium69> do not pay, but pump out
2021-07-03T23:54:41 < kakium69> last line
2021-07-03T23:56:23 < kakium69> you bet PaulFertser there are these news for any type of motorcycle and any model
2021-07-03T23:56:35 < kakium69> but biased towards sportbikes ofc
2021-07-03T23:58:21 < PaulFertser> kakium69: yes, https://bikepost.ru/memory/
--- Day changed Sun Jul 04 2021
2021-07-04T00:04:03 < kakium69> heck.. some of them have youtubes videos
2021-07-04T00:04:16 < kakium69> because of 100% dashcam coverage
2021-07-04T00:11:52 < kakium69> PaulFertser: none of my friends have sport bike anymore
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2021-07-04T00:14:02 < PaulFertser> kakium69: that's probably a good thing.
2021-07-04T00:14:35 < kakium69> one used to get to work hitting rev limiter
2021-07-04T00:14:54 < kakium69> I think he had couple close calls and called quits
2021-07-04T00:15:26 < kakium69> +250kmh between car lines
2021-07-04T00:17:21 < kakium69> another one drove +300kmh for casual fun
2021-07-04T00:19:28 < kakium69> 1000cc
2021-07-04T00:19:42 < kakium69> actually they road raced or something
2021-07-04T00:20:24 < kakium69> it just seems to follow the pattern that once you are hooked you cannot roll back throttle
2021-07-04T00:22:55 < kakium69> he escaped the hobby without dying too
2021-07-04T00:23:49 < PaulFertser> Fahrenheit 451 describes speeding behaviour with probably similar motivation.
2021-07-04T00:26:13 < kakium69> adrenaline is helluva drug
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2021-07-04T00:29:27 < kakium69> when I was 18 I got big boi motorcycle licence upgrade automatically
2021-07-04T00:29:39 < kakium69> wait no.. 20
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2021-07-04T00:30:08 < kakium69> 18 was A2
2021-07-04T00:30:19 < kakium69> 20 was A
2021-07-04T00:30:51 < kakium69> now you need to have like driving schools for every step
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2021-07-04T00:41:51 < PaulFertser> When I was getting mine it was A right away, 16 y.o. No city traffic exam too (there still isn't).
2021-07-04T00:42:37 < kakium69> hmm
2021-07-04T00:42:46 < kakium69> 16yo can ride 1000cc?
2021-07-04T00:43:04 < PaulFertser> 20 years ago, yes.
2021-07-04T00:43:22 < kakium69> what could go wrong
2021-07-04T00:43:55 < PaulFertser> Now -- no, you're limited to 125 cc 25 hp or some such till you're 18 y.o. when you need to pass the same exam but on a bigger bike (150 cc is enough).
2021-07-04T00:44:11 < PaulFertser> If you're 18 y.o. you can get A right away no matter if you had A1 before or not.
2021-07-04T00:44:27 < kakium69> in here in 90s or so you could still get A by just asking to add it to your licence
2021-07-04T00:44:44 < kakium69> or it was even automatically added with automobile licence
2021-07-04T00:44:59 < PaulFertser> M is added here this way now.
2021-07-04T00:45:22 < kakium69> my granma could ride hayabusa all day long - legally
2021-07-04T00:45:43 < kakium69> she has never driven a motorcycle
2021-07-04T00:46:48 < kakium69> usually grandmas don't have urge to get 1300cc
2021-07-04T00:51:32 < kakium69> one problem is that people who have last experience from 2wheels from 50cc in 70s or 60s get big tourer bike
2021-07-04T00:52:20 < kakium69> I think most of people are sensible and take voluntary courses and intermediate steps
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2021-07-04T06:57:53 < bitmask> this is annoying, most standoffs have a male thread of 6mm and i need 8mm, looks like im gonna have to get a double female standoff and a 12mm or so grub screw, screw that into the standoff to get a 8mm or so male thread
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2021-07-04T07:12:25 < upgrdman> anyone have a favorite RELIABLE bluetooth uart? hc05/hc06 work for me, but cut out often and require disconnect/reconnect to regain communication :/
2021-07-04T07:12:39 < upgrdman> bonus points if it supports high-ish baud rates
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2021-07-04T08:33:56 < R2COM1> *reliable*
2021-07-04T08:33:59 < R2COM1> *bluetooth*
2021-07-04T08:34:11 < R2COM1> how reliable...trusting life?
2021-07-04T09:37:57 < upgrdman> R2COM1, no, just something that doesnt require reconnecting often
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2021-07-04T09:55:39 < upgrdman> fuck. found part of my problem. voltage was browning out when some motors were turning on, and the hc05 was sensitive enough to reset when that happens (but mcu and imu were fine)
2021-07-04T09:56:05 < upgrdman> turns out my battery pack was worn the fuck out.
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2021-07-04T12:04:11 < Sadale> congratz on figuring out what's wrong :)
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2021-07-04T14:01:20 < kakium69> I learned in my first electronics project how motors cause mcu to brown out
2021-07-04T14:01:49 < kakium69> it went into loop after that
2021-07-04T14:02:09 < kakium69> when mcu booted it required 100% torque
2021-07-04T14:31:19 < ventYl> in the beginning, i somehow ignored the need for bypass caps, thus relays were browning out (if it can even be called like that) my MCU
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2021-07-04T16:02:45 < GenTooMan> ventYl, I can only say "be thankful for MCU's that can handle that" I bet 30 years ago the MCU would have just stopped in latch up.
2021-07-04T16:03:22 < ventYl> it was 25+ years old MCU design
2021-07-04T16:04:18 < ventYl> but yeah, if MCU hard stopped, I would find it out faster. this way, software mostly ran and occasional brown outs were interpreted as "oh, this event got somehow missed by the software"
2021-07-04T16:04:43 < ventYl> so I ended up tracing non-existent error
2021-07-04T16:07:42 < GenTooMan> hmm so the MCU didn't have a BOR that explains why all those BOR reset chips exist.
2021-07-04T16:09:15 < ventYl> there is BOR, but the task SW was doing didn't have rich state, so resets were virtually undetectable
2021-07-04T16:09:50 < ventYl> or at least it wasn't very simple to realize that MCU reset until you specifically looked for time since reset
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2021-07-04T17:01:32 < GenTooMan> ah I always had a weird series of flags I used for handling reset events.
2021-07-04T17:10:30 < mouseghost> do you set watchdog on your projects or something?
2021-07-04T17:10:35 < mouseghost> or is it set for me? or wah
2021-07-04T17:15:49 < mouseghost> or should i just assume that my program works and w/e who cares?
2021-07-04T17:22:40 < BrainDamage> depends, what happens if a pin gets stuck?
2021-07-04T17:27:15 < BrainDamage> if eg it's a psu controller a pin getting stuck means stuff blowing up
2021-07-04T17:27:39 < mouseghost> D:
2021-07-04T17:27:46 < mouseghost> no no no
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2021-07-04T18:03:55 < englishman> zyp: https://motor.no/elbil/motor-test-av-ioniq-5--i-tet-blant-elektriske-familie-suv-er/202563
2021-07-04T18:04:40 < englishman> title is a bit much
2021-07-04T18:08:26 < englishman> no pricing yet...
2021-07-04T18:09:16 < englishman> £37k. ouch
2021-07-04T18:29:38 < mouseghost> is storing a word and storing a byte similar in terms of speed? 
2021-07-04T18:30:27 < GenTooMan> mouseghost, depends on the processor
2021-07-04T18:30:36 < mouseghost> ;-;
2021-07-04T18:30:40 < mouseghost> 32-bit arch tho
2021-07-04T18:31:13 < GenTooMan> if ARM it depends on what part of the processor it's hung off 
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2021-07-04T18:33:28 < GenTooMan> some paths are only 8 bits wide for example (external memory can be like that).
2021-07-04T18:34:00 < mouseghost> hm
2021-07-04T18:34:16 < mouseghost> internal memory
2021-07-04T18:34:22 < mouseghost> with 32-bit access
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2021-07-04T19:44:25 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-07-04T19:44:35  * Laurenceb is trying to make sockets work under cygwin
2021-07-04T19:44:55 < Laurenceb>  fatal error: sys/socket.h: No such file or directory
2021-07-04T19:45:03 < Laurenceb> wtf I thought that should be included?
2021-07-04T19:46:19 < mawk> what are you using to compile Laurenceb 
2021-07-04T19:46:26 < mawk> gcc?
2021-07-04T19:46:42 < mawk> get the mingw toolchain, why are you using cygwin?
2021-07-04T19:47:20 < mawk> or use windows.h like a real pro
2021-07-04T19:47:25 < mawk> and msvc
2021-07-04T19:53:04 < Laurenceb> gcc yeah
2021-07-04T19:58:08 < Laurenceb> hmm I seem to be using mingw gcc
2021-07-04T19:58:16 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to swap to a cygwin gcc
2021-07-04T20:01:14 < ventYl> or switch to mingw-w64 and you can almost throw cygwin out of window
2021-07-04T20:15:55 < zyp> englishman, idk, it's about the same as id.4 here
2021-07-04T20:16:45 < zyp> I haven't really seen any cheaper cars that are interesting
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2021-07-04T20:43:29 < Laurenceb>  /usr/bin/gcc.exe -std=c11 foo.c -o foo
2021-07-04T20:43:31 < Laurenceb> simples
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2021-07-04T21:08:15 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: do you need to compile *nix software without any modifications to run on Windows?
2021-07-04T21:09:27 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-04T21:16:48 < R2COM> uhh... how do i disable windows key not being used by win10 when using it as super key in linux vm
2021-07-04T21:19:33 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: in this case use Cygwin with its compiler and carry the additional dll along. Or use WSL2 and run GNU/Linux apps natively.
2021-07-04T21:19:45 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-04T21:20:00 < Laurenceb> problem is I was planning to use socketcan
2021-07-04T21:20:03 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: mingw32-w64 is meant to build native windows applications and when it comes to sockets some minimal changes are needed, as it's not exactly BSD API.
2021-07-04T21:20:04 < R2COM> what a fuckery... uh... ill just assign different super key in unix vm 
2021-07-04T21:20:09 < Laurenceb> this looks undoable on windows
2021-07-04T21:20:13 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: socketcan on windows? Good plan :)
2021-07-04T21:20:52 < Laurenceb> irony I presume?
2021-07-04T21:21:51 < PaulFertser> Of course
2021-07-04T21:22:05 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-07-04T21:22:05 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: do you use some USB CAN adapter?
2021-07-04T21:22:13 < Laurenceb> no, raspberry pi
2021-07-04T21:22:19 < Laurenceb> just testing codez on windows
2021-07-04T21:22:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: wtf how can you test program that should run on rpi on windows and why?
2021-07-04T21:22:46 < Laurenceb> cuz lazy
2021-07-04T21:22:55 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: install a VM or use WSL2 (which is also kind of a VM)
2021-07-04T21:23:04 < Laurenceb> hmm I can test everything apart from can, I'll call it a day
2021-07-04T21:24:11 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/EUcDszfD does this look sane?
2021-07-04T21:26:41 < Laurenceb> its supposed to sniff can packets and send them over udp
2021-07-04T21:27:18 < R2COM> almost done with fpga xilinx tool vm.... fucking desperate measure, cuz command flow doesnt work in win10 for ISE
2021-07-04T21:27:43 < R2COM> so crafter a small build system in python to invoke fpga flow tools, and since shit only runs in linux had to vm it...
2021-07-04T21:27:53 < R2COM> what a pain
2021-07-04T21:28:37 < R2COM> and i didnt know that this fucking HyperV doesnt support 4k
2021-07-04T21:28:41 < R2COM> 1080p is its max
2021-07-04T21:28:41 < R2COM> lol
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2021-07-04T21:38:09 < specing> install linux
2021-07-04T21:50:10 < Laurenceb> https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.fe449ed08358a5f8372414eedc5faeff?rik=IefIFaeNni%2fiXA&pid=ImgRaw
2021-07-04T21:53:49 < ventYl> Laurenceb: it should work
2021-07-04T21:54:21 < Laurenceb> cool, I havent used sockets in c before
2021-07-04T21:56:01 < ventYl> socketcan works quite different to other socket types
2021-07-04T21:58:20 < Laurenceb> yeah the ioctl is weird
2021-07-04T22:01:02 < ventYl> i think that ioctl for similar job for AF_INET is even weirder
2021-07-04T22:01:14 < ventYl> but I haven't used it for more than a decade
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2021-07-04T22:54:16 < Laurenceb> if I have a closed system (shared secret), and one node wants to prove its identity to another, is there a really simple algorythm?
2021-07-04T22:54:32 < Laurenceb> node 1 gives node 2 a 128bit int
2021-07-04T22:55:11 < Laurenceb> node 2 multiplies the int by the 128bit int shared secret, then takes lower 128bits and returns that to node 1?
2021-07-04T22:59:29 < zyp> how is that proof?
2021-07-04T23:00:52 < zyp> I mean, the shared secret wouldn't be secret anymore if you did that
2021-07-04T23:03:15 < BrainDamage> node 2 encrypts the int using aes with the shared secret
2021-07-04T23:03:33 < BrainDamage> node 1 runs again aes, and see if it gets the original int
2021-07-04T23:03:34 < ventYl> Laurenceb: this kind of authentication algorithms are called challenge response 
2021-07-04T23:03:48 < BrainDamage> also, are you reinventing a vpn?
2021-07-04T23:04:47 < zyp> I mean, in your exchange, node 1 would send A, node 2 does B = (A * S) % N and returns B
2021-07-04T23:05:16 < BrainDamage> if you replace multiply with a hash function, it'd work as weell
2021-07-04T23:05:23 < zyp> to find X, all you need to do then is (B * A^-1) % N
2021-07-04T23:05:28 < zyp> S*
2021-07-04T23:06:32 < zyp> like BrainDamage says, you need a one way function, modulo-multiplication is not
2021-07-04T23:06:44 < R2COM> wow xfce desktop environment supposed to be like lightweight, lunix under vm with that still lags.... with Gnome it lags as fuck... with xfce its fast, but still lags... however, after installing wm, its like really fast and snappy. this this xfce shit is not that light and doesnt work fast under virtualbox
2021-07-04T23:07:44 < ventYl> R2COM: that's because nowadays, it doesn't really matter if WM is lightweight or not. what really matters is if WM is using accelerated drawing or not
2021-07-04T23:08:11 < ventYl> xfce is an example of poorly accelerated WM, which is why it sucks in VM
2021-07-04T23:08:51 < R2COM> im using awesomewm and its super fast now
2021-07-04T23:08:55 < R2COM> under virtualbox
2021-07-04T23:09:38 < R2COM> by lightweight i also meant how fast it is actually... so yeah that would be more proper word, fast not lightweight
2021-07-04T23:10:29 < ventYl> that might be due to the fact, that awesomewm comes from '80s, it is using server side drawing which might actually end up being accelerated without awesome even knowing that
2021-07-04T23:10:59 < R2COM> i thought awesomewm is kinda fresh
2021-07-04T23:11:10 < R2COM> wrapped with that Lua thingy for config
2021-07-04T23:11:23 < ventYl> it is not, if X11 interfacing is considered
2021-07-04T23:11:33 < ventYl> it uses decades old drawing model
2021-07-04T23:11:35 < R2COM> Initial release: September 18, 2007; 13 years ago
2021-07-04T23:11:39 < R2COM> so its not 80s
2021-07-04T23:11:46 < R2COM> k
2021-07-04T23:12:38 < R2COM> yeah, like... i tried running Kicad on some laptop with FreeBSD, the laptop is like from 2012... and when I turned on acceleration it was worse than without it
2021-07-04T23:13:13 < ventYl> xfce is known to suck wherever GUI performance is critically dependant on 3D acceleration
2021-07-04T23:13:33 < R2COM> so drawing schematics in Kicad with acceleration off was faster... lol
2021-07-04T23:13:50 < ventYl> same happens here
2021-07-04T23:14:15 < R2COM> but afaik... Kicad is using OpenGL which is not like...direct access to hardware, its some surface API shit
2021-07-04T23:14:18 < ventYl> I run KDE plasma, but use unaccelerated toolkit in kicad
2021-07-04T23:14:19 < R2COM> not the best one
2021-07-04T23:14:25 < R2COM> i.e. its not using something like Vulkan
2021-07-04T23:14:53 < ventYl> opengl is fast enough for all purposes kicad might need
2021-07-04T23:15:03 < R2COM> apparently its not
2021-07-04T23:15:12 < R2COM> since its acceleration literally doesnt work well
2021-07-04T23:15:20 < R2COM> oh...on old laptop..
2021-07-04T23:15:35 < R2COM> on my main PC with FreeBSD and properly installed Nvidia driver, it actually works fast with it
2021-07-04T23:15:40 < ventYl> acceleration performance will depend on how good/bad your 3D driver is
2021-07-04T23:15:49 < ventYl> if your driver sucks, then kicad will be slow as fuck
2021-07-04T23:16:31 < R2COM> so yeah maybe its "good enough" for things like schematics drawing.. just saying that OpenGL is not best stuff for critical performance in graphics
2021-07-04T23:16:36 < ventYl> in case of newer mesa, it is even possible, that you don't have native 3D support and your 3D "acceleration" is actually emulated using CPU
2021-07-04T23:16:40 < zyp> Laurenceb, https://paste.jvnv.net/view/z5jh5
2021-07-04T23:16:43 < R2COM> some AAA games already started using Vulkan
2021-07-04T23:17:38 < ventYl> R2COM: uh oh, the only reason why opengl is not as performant as vulkan is, that opengl is more abstract. and it is driver's job to bridge opengl abstraction with real hardware capabilities
2021-07-04T23:18:10 < ventYl> but this really only can be visible with extensive use of large shaders, which most probably is not the kicad use case
2021-07-04T23:18:12 < R2COM> yeah but if stuff coded with Vulkan its direct access to hardware as far as I know (havent touched it myself)
2021-07-04T23:18:22 < R2COM> i.e. coding in DX12 or coding in Vulkan should be alike
2021-07-04T23:18:44 < ventYl> in neither case the application is directly touching the HW
2021-07-04T23:19:16 < R2COM> its touching lowest level driver functions talking to HW
2021-07-04T23:19:37 < ventYl> in fact that doesn't really matter
2021-07-04T23:19:50 < zyp> R2COM, not necessarily
2021-07-04T23:19:53 < R2COM> i mean Vulkan has less overhead than opengl thats all im saying
2021-07-04T23:20:14 < ventYl> normally, regardless of API used, you tend to prepare all the data in advance and then simply just fire rendering
2021-07-04T23:20:22 < zyp> opengl and vulkan are both interface specs
2021-07-04T23:20:51 < ventYl> which means that vast majority of "overhead" is accounted before you even start rendering
2021-07-04T23:20:52 < zyp> what makes vulkan more performant is that the interface is better suited for modern hardware
2021-07-04T23:21:02 < ventYl> and less abstract
2021-07-04T23:21:16 < R2COM> that sounds as a very vague explanation
2021-07-04T23:21:33 < R2COM> https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/96014/what-is-vulkan-and-how-does-it-differ-from-opengl
2021-07-04T23:23:06 < R2COM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)
2021-07-04T23:23:27 < R2COM> "Other major differences from Direct3D 11 and OpenGL is Vulkan being a considerably lower-level API and offering parallel tasking."
2021-07-04T23:23:32 < zyp> you know how there are software renderers for opengl, right? like mesa
2021-07-04T23:23:56 < zyp> you can do the same for vulkan, so a vulkan implementation doesn't need to touch hardware at all
2021-07-04T23:24:01 < R2COM> the wiki is saying directly that its a lower level api, thats all i was pointing before
2021-07-04T23:24:22 < ventYl> which doesn't mean that it allows you to touch HW directly
2021-07-04T23:24:40 < ventYl> it means that certain stuff, which was performed by OpenGL is now up to application
2021-07-04T23:24:49 < R2COM> well yeah i mean its not *directly* but its done through the driver which controls hw
2021-07-04T23:25:01 < zyp> not necessarily
2021-07-04T23:25:06 < R2COM> like recently for example if im correct.. Nvidia made a driver supporting Vulkan for FreeBSD
2021-07-04T23:25:17 < zyp> e.g. here's vulkan implemented as a translation layer on top of metal: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK
2021-07-04T23:25:22 < R2COM> so your vulkan stuff needs that driver to execute on those machines
2021-07-04T23:25:33 < R2COM> its that driver they did who controls HW
2021-07-04T23:26:18 < ventYl> that's the same with opengl ;)
2021-07-04T23:26:33 < zyp> and then there's zink that's implementing opengl on top of vulkan as well: https://docs.mesa3d.org/drivers/zink.html
2021-07-04T23:27:25 < R2COM> from what I hear in general, OpenGL is trash :)
2021-07-04T23:28:47 < ventYl> I can't compare as it is the only API I've ever used
2021-07-04T23:29:13 < ventYl> there's a disadvantage of many subvariants, which are not 100% compatible
2021-07-04T23:29:57 < ventYl> like mobile HW only supports GL ES subvariants, which don't support ancient stuff, like OpenGL 1 fixed pipeline
2021-07-04T23:30:33 < ventYl> but overally, OpenGL is just an API and feature-wise it is complement to DX, except of DX12, which looks like Vulkan
2021-07-04T23:31:06 < R2COM> many modern tripeA games now either DX12 or Vulkan
2021-07-04T23:31:09 < ventYl> nah, not complement, similar
2021-07-04T23:31:09 < R2COM> some support both
2021-07-04T23:31:36 < R2COM> err...its more like, all are DX12 and some DX12/Vulkan
2021-07-04T23:33:29 < ventYl> now you have to fit playstation into your equation somehow
2021-07-04T23:33:55 < R2COM> playstation is.,.. um.. its basically FreeBSD ;]
2021-07-04T23:33:55 < ventYl> because if what you say was true, then either playstation doesn't have any AAA games, or all of them use DX
2021-07-04T23:34:07 < R2COM> with some custom stuff for its custom graphics
2021-07-04T23:34:16 < ventYl> neither of them is true
2021-07-04T23:34:44 < R2COM> but honestly...consoles are shit so maybe I didnt care when saying it
2021-07-04T23:34:48 < R2COM> i meant PC
2021-07-04T23:35:06 < R2COM> real gaming is in PC, consoles are for nigglets
2021-07-04T23:35:40 < ventYl> probably vast majority of games now is using some of generic engines such as unity or unreal engine, or similar. thus the choice of backend is not made by game authors, rather by engine authors
2021-07-04T23:36:05 < ventYl> and for whatever reason, they chose to use DX on windows. maybe because it supports new HW features quicker than opengl
2021-07-04T23:36:11 < R2COM> yeah its mainly true, but real AAA games are typically with own engines
2021-07-04T23:36:33 < R2COM> UE4/5 is an engine for someone who would do their own game if that someone is like small team or single dev
2021-07-04T23:36:45 < R2COM> but serious big companies typically craft own engine
2021-07-04T23:37:36 < R2COM> well i think if someone targets win10 then yeah DX is more natural probably for that
2021-07-04T23:38:00 < R2COM> i just wish Nvidia made their drivers open source
2021-07-04T23:38:06 < ventYl> and quite often, openGL implementations used to be buggy as fuck
2021-07-04T23:38:10 < R2COM> like..what is fucking point in keeping it proprietary...
2021-07-04T23:38:11 < ventYl> especially in case of intel
--- Day changed Mon Jul 05 2021
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2021-07-05T01:03:16 < machinehum> dwarf fortress is sick
2021-07-05T01:03:26 < machinehum> http://bay12games.com/dwarves/
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2021-07-05T02:19:58 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYZlZtnJPk this is nice game
2021-07-05T02:20:20 < kakium69> 1vs1 on single keyboard
2021-07-05T02:20:35 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-07-05T02:20:52 < kakium69> legendary "suomipeli" or "finn game"
2021-07-05T02:22:00 < R2COM> who plays 1vs1 on single keyboard
2021-07-05T02:32:20 < kakium69> people in 90s and 2000s
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2021-07-05T05:23:54 < R2COM1> gosh im tired of this lunix ricing
2021-07-05T05:23:57 < R2COM1> finally done
2021-07-05T05:24:26 < R2COM1> seems like in virtualbox the alacritty terminal doesnt go well with awesomewm
2021-07-05T05:24:36 < R2COM1> had to use other, urxvt a bit slower but enough
2021-07-05T05:24:52 < R2COM1> also seems that some shit dependent on opengl is not working well at all
2021-07-05T05:25:06 < R2COM1> and this "enable 3D acceleration" in virtualbox is doing it worse than good
2021-07-05T05:25:09 < R2COM1> better just turn it off
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2021-07-05T05:58:08 < R2COM> fuck how do i disable host OS capturing keys so that guest OS in virtualbox can see shit
2021-07-05T06:07:54 < R2COM> oh
2021-07-05T06:08:06 < R2COM> alright enough fuckery for today
2021-07-05T06:08:37 < R2COM> btw vscode is cool but kinda slow in remote environments and virtualbox as well
2021-07-05T06:09:00 < R2COM> vim pimped with plugins is still faster in those conditions
2021-07-05T06:09:10 < R2COM> but it doesnt have cool features vscode does... so
2021-07-05T06:16:46 < R2COM> time to play games
2021-07-05T06:17:26 < R2COM> where is jly
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2021-07-05T20:39:39 < qyx> I noticed some kind of a new parallel bus peripheral on some recent STMs
2021-07-05T20:39:47 < qyx> probably on H7
2021-07-05T20:40:02 < qyx> trying to find out what was it exactly
2021-07-05T20:46:55 < jpa-> qyx: you mean PSSI? parallel slave interface
2021-07-05T20:47:09 < qyx> yeah
2021-07-05T20:47:17 < qyx> but quick google says it is a microchip thing
2021-07-05T20:47:54 < jpa-> pics have a "parallel slave port" also
2021-07-05T20:49:04 < jpa-> at least ST didn't name it "ART Adaptive Parallel Accelerator Awesomeness"
2021-07-05T20:50:26 < jpa-> on other STM32's, one can use a timer + dma + gpio to do similar thing, though not with as high datarate
2021-07-05T20:51:11 < qyx> I did that once
2021-07-05T20:51:21 < qyx> DMA with GPIO works
2021-07-05T20:51:30 < jpa-> sure, it works for many things
2021-07-05T20:51:41 < qyx> I am preparing a to-do of play project for the next year
2021-07-05T20:51:50 < qyx> or a "play-list"
2021-07-05T20:52:00 < qyx> so considering a direct sampling CB receiver
2021-07-05T20:52:14 < qyx> with a 80 MSPS ADC + H7
2021-07-05T20:52:31 < jpa-> octospi can do kind of parallel slave stuff also, even with DDR @ 200 Mbyte/s, but has that annoying pause after every 4 GB
2021-07-05T21:35:44 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Kamilion, srk, splud, englishman, sync, Ecco, dobson, veverak, jadew, flatmush,  (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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2021-07-05T23:18:55 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-07-05T23:19:07 < Laurenceb> NTP is running on HyperLAN
2021-07-05T23:19:14 < Laurenceb> but I have a problem
2021-07-05T23:19:26 < Laurenceb> cat /run/ntp.conf.dhcp
2021-07-05T23:19:26 < Laurenceb> # Generated by dhcpcd from eth0.dhcp
2021-07-05T23:19:26 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-05T23:19:27 < Laurenceb> server 10.101.0.1
2021-07-05T23:19:27 < Laurenceb> # End of dhcpcd from eth0.dhcp
2021-07-05T23:19:27 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-05T23:19:33 < Laurenceb> there is no fallback server?
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 06 2021
2021-07-06T00:14:28 < Steffann> # wut wut
2021-07-06T00:14:28 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-06T00:14:40 < Steffann> #cache
2021-07-06T00:14:40 < xnand> Use `#cache(d) /nix/store/<path>` to query cache
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2021-07-06T00:37:17 < Laurenceb> anyone know any way to probe a DNS server for its stored addresses ?
2021-07-06T00:37:30 < Laurenceb> or get any info from it at all for that matter?
2021-07-06T00:41:06 < sauce> can you just like have some design meetings with your network people
2021-07-06T00:43:15 < aandrew> I've not seen that before Laurenceb 
2021-07-06T00:43:29 < Laurenceb> host <ip address>
2021-07-06T00:43:33 < Laurenceb> and its not found....
2021-07-06T00:43:47 < aandrew> yes but that doesn't get the name server to say "here's a list of everythign I have cached"
2021-07-06T00:44:32 < Laurenceb> I know some ip addresses it should have cached
2021-07-06T00:47:52 < Laurenceb> aha ldapsearch
2021-07-06T00:47:53 < aandrew> it sounds like something that might be available through a debug interface maybe, but not part of any published spec
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2021-07-06T02:06:53 < mawk> what pH-meter do you recommend
2021-07-06T02:06:54 < mawk> bitmask: 
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2021-07-06T02:50:00 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssZ_8cqfBlE
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2021-07-06T14:04:06 < bitmask> mawk I'm not sure, I don't have a pH meter
2021-07-06T14:06:01 < mawk> why
2021-07-06T14:06:13 < mawk> you spend your time doing chemical stuff
2021-07-06T14:06:17 < mawk> you use ph paper?
2021-07-06T14:06:51 < bitmask> yea i have ph paper, i dont do enough chemical stuff to warrant a ph meter
2021-07-06T14:07:08 < mawk> I see
2021-07-06T14:08:14 < bitmask> what are you working on
2021-07-06T14:09:19 < bitmask> i did just order a geiger counter and magnetometer though
2021-07-06T14:19:04 < mawk> making drugs
2021-07-06T14:19:18 < bitmask> hah what drugs
2021-07-06T14:19:22 < mawk> so I need a pH-meter
2021-07-06T14:19:27 < mawk> I'm making GHB
2021-07-06T14:19:39 < mawk> to use as a facial soap
2021-07-06T14:19:49 < mawk> my skin is delicate
2021-07-06T14:20:03 < mawk> so you mix γ-BL with sodium hydroxyde and heat it until pH is 7 and that's i
2021-07-06T14:20:07 < mawk> it
2021-07-06T14:20:12 < mawk> it's almost like making soap
2021-07-06T14:22:59 < bitmask> γ-BL ?
2021-07-06T14:23:40 < bitmask> why the interesting in ghb anyway? trying to get raped?
2021-07-06T14:24:15 < mawk> lol
2021-07-06T14:24:24 < mawk> gammabutyrolactone
2021-07-06T14:24:28 < mawk> no I'm putting a blue dye in it
2021-07-06T14:24:31 < mawk> so it can't be used to rape
2021-07-06T14:24:39 < mawk> it's just an alcohol substitute
2021-07-06T14:24:45 < mawk> that doesn't punch a hole in your liver
2021-07-06T14:25:16 < bitmask> interesting
2021-07-06T14:25:56 < bitmask> never tried it but a few friends used to do it, they would obviously push themselves to the limit because to test they were ok if they passed out they do that reflex test of rubbing real hard on your chest
2021-07-06T14:26:16 < bitmask> i never saw em do it, never had any interest
2021-07-06T14:29:35 < mawk> yeah I don't like it either
2021-07-06T14:29:40 < mawk> I don't like anything anymore
2021-07-06T14:29:42 < mawk> I'm a pure man
2021-07-06T14:30:06 < mawk> what's the magnetometer for bitmask 
2021-07-06T14:31:10 < bitmask> I wanna play with electromagnets and maybe make a flip-dot display of some sort, figured it would be useful in designing the coils
2021-07-06T14:32:09 < mawk> like in airports you mean?
2021-07-06T14:32:17 < mawk> the thing that flips to display numbers/letters
2021-07-06T14:32:27 < mawk> I thought it worked with a mere motor
2021-07-06T14:33:02 < bitmask> somewhat but its just two sides that flip back and forth, not like a rolodex of letters/numbers
2021-07-06T14:33:21 < mawk> so it displays only two things
2021-07-06T14:33:29 < mawk> or what
2021-07-06T14:33:37 < bitmask> yea, like a monochrome display
2021-07-06T14:33:51 < bitmask> i wanted to avoid motors since theres gonna be a bunch of em
2021-07-06T14:34:26 < mawk> I see
2021-07-06T14:34:28 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-06T14:34:42 < mawk> well if you have electromagnets somewhere you end up doing some kind of proto motor anyway
2021-07-06T14:34:43 < bitmask> have you seen those mirrors that use it in neat ways? it has a camera that detects you or whatever is in front of it and displays it
2021-07-06T14:34:51 < bitmask> yea true
2021-07-06T14:35:23 < mawk> no,  you have a link to that?
2021-07-06T14:35:55 < bitmask> looking
2021-07-06T14:36:10 < bitmask> some guy even used troll dolls where one side of the head is white and one side is black
2021-07-06T14:36:39 < bitmask> heres an example while i look for the one im really looking for
2021-07-06T14:36:39 < bitmask> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s94PscZJ5EE
2021-07-06T14:37:27 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/P-RqdgkCM5M
2021-07-06T14:37:36 < bitmask> thats the video i was thinking of though its more than just flip dots
2021-07-06T14:41:12 < bitmask> i also wanted to use e-magnets to try and reduce the noise
2021-07-06T14:41:45 < bitmask> i cant find any good iron rods to use as cores that are less than 5mm diameter
2021-07-06T14:42:22 < bitmask> im gonna try some cast iron + 55% nickel welding rods that come in 1-3mm
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2021-07-06T14:43:30 < bitmask> though i did get some 5mm rods of silicon steel and soft iron
2021-07-06T14:49:04 < mawk> ah I see
2021-07-06T14:49:15 < mawk> lol the troll dolls
2021-07-06T14:49:19 < bitmask> heh
2021-07-06T14:50:35 < bitmask> i do wanna get back into electroforming/plating copper, i just dont know what to use it for
2021-07-06T14:55:52 < BrainDamage> electroplated buttplugs for ems
2021-07-06T15:08:49 < bitmask> there ya go
2021-07-06T15:30:01 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/OI4q6RN
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2021-07-06T16:13:16 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et_eKvzIu8A
2021-07-06T16:18:10 < bitmask> lets try this 5mm fcob led strip
2021-07-06T16:21:42 < Steffann> Cool animation Mangy_Dog 
2021-07-06T16:21:57 < Mangy_Dog> thanks 
2021-07-06T16:22:00 < Steffann> You DIY all those graphics?
2021-07-06T16:22:01 < Mangy_Dog> still a lot to do
2021-07-06T16:22:04 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2021-07-06T16:22:08 < Steffann> Daamn
2021-07-06T16:22:18 < Mangy_Dog> i got to program the rest of the animated stuff
2021-07-06T16:22:45 < Steffann> Even made the body yourself? 
2021-07-06T16:23:06 < Mangy_Dog> naaa i didnt want to put THAT much effort in... I used some stock images i edited.
2021-07-06T16:23:15 < Mangy_Dog> I did redraw the cardiovascular system though
2021-07-06T16:23:43 < Steffann> Aah
2021-07-06T16:23:47 < Steffann> Still nice though
2021-07-06T16:28:56 < Mangy_Dog> i mean dont get me wrong. i did spent a couple of days editing the stock footage to work with my stuff :D i just didnt want to spend several weeks making a copy of the 3d human body with all organs and vanes mapped out accurately for a small graphic like this :D
2021-07-06T16:31:44 < Mangy_Dog> https://emit.medschl.cam.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/human-body-model-against-black.jpg
2021-07-06T16:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> is what i used
2021-07-06T16:31:47 < Mangy_Dog> :D
2021-07-06T16:31:52 < Mangy_Dog> and edited
2021-07-06T16:34:09 < bitmask> damn this shit is bright
2021-07-06T16:35:41 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/fHvjCVN.png
2021-07-06T16:35:49 < bitmask> hard to capture on camera of course
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2021-07-06T16:55:41 < bitmask> how do you fix a hakko fx-888d
2021-07-06T17:10:06 < bitmask> ahh i think i need a new chord
2021-07-06T17:10:13 < bitmask> cord*
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2021-07-06T19:10:42 < jpa-> bitmask: nice tool storage
2021-07-06T19:10:51 < bitmask> haha
2021-07-06T19:20:33 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/AGz6wdC
2021-07-06T19:20:35 < bitmask> not too bad
2021-07-06T19:24:16 < Steffann> Show us your tool(s) jpa- 
2021-07-06T19:24:47 < jpa-> Steffann: i thought you would never ask!
2021-07-06T19:28:17 < jpa-> Steffann: https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/pix/IMG_20210706_192528.jpg
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2021-07-06T19:31:09 < Steffann> Soo much space wasted...
2021-07-06T19:33:40 < jpa-> Steffann: so do you have any new photos of Tectu's tool?
2021-07-06T19:36:15 < jadew> nice jpa-
2021-07-06T19:44:42 < jadew> I like that you have a place for the caliper
2021-07-06T19:45:01 < jadew> I still haven't found one for mine... it just sits in its original box and I put it wherever
2021-07-06T19:45:59 < jpa-> i have a bit similar vertical storage for various dev boards etc. also
2021-07-06T19:46:41 < BrainDamage> can you keep the drawers open while you work on stuff?
2021-07-06T19:47:11 < jpa-> not very well, the area is a bit cramped
2021-07-06T19:47:20 < jpa-> also the right side drawer is a bit too deep under the table
2021-07-06T19:48:15 < bitmask> heres my caliper holder :P https://i.imgur.com/ZiC1Q8j.jpg
2021-07-06T19:52:54 < jadew> http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210706_194015.jpg
2021-07-06T19:55:35 < jadew> for the main tool drawer I use a cutlery separator: http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210706_194332.jpg
2021-07-06T19:58:47 < jadew> second tweezers from the right is for my eyebrows
2021-07-06T19:59:32 < bitmask> hmm, what ready made solution would you use to pwm a small led strip, 12V/~300mA
2021-07-06T20:01:56 < jpa-> i would use a DC-DC converter with constant current mode
2021-07-06T20:02:43 < bitmask> oh true, i guess I was thinking running at full voltage was more efficient but it doesnt matter
2021-07-06T20:03:50 < jpa-> i think that because of the integrated series resistors, running with constant current source is more efficient
2021-07-06T20:04:09 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-07-06T20:04:26 < bitmask> let me try running it off my psu with current limiting and see how it behaves
2021-07-06T20:07:15 < jpa-> with duty D, max current I and integrated series resistors of R, PWM mode would waste D * I^2 * R as heat, while CC mode would waste (D * I)^2 * R
2021-07-06T20:08:10 < bitmask> 60mA seems like a good brightness, at the rated 12V its 195mA
2021-07-06T20:10:24 < bitmask> i gotta run a temperature test later, i still dont know if its gonna get cold enough 
2021-07-06T20:12:16 < Steffann> It looks like pretty cool white to me, bitmask 
2021-07-06T20:12:51 < bitmask> temp of the peltier+copper plate
2021-07-06T20:12:59 < Steffann> :P
2021-07-06T20:13:05 < bitmask> haha ok i wasnt sure if you were joking or not
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2021-07-06T20:33:34 < tct> sad story time: Go! Tell me a sad story.
2021-07-06T20:35:05 < Steffann> Touchgfx > ugfx 
2021-07-06T20:35:36 < BrainDamage> once in switzerland there was a tectu that met his steffan, but then steffan went away and they never met again ever since
2021-07-06T20:36:25 < jpa-> once there was jpa, who got some good ideas and spent time on them; then motivation disappeared and stuff was never finished
2021-07-06T20:37:41 < Steffann> Did the Italian guy even go back, BrainDamage ?
2021-07-06T20:37:51 < BrainDamage> nope
2021-07-06T20:37:56 < BrainDamage> all alone :(
2021-07-06T20:38:06 -!- bitmask [~bitmask@c-73-215-237-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-06T20:38:42 < Steffann> Awh
2021-07-06T20:39:24 < Steffann> I think a tectu should pick better weather when some people visit him
2021-07-06T20:39:52 < tct> haha ^^
2021-07-06T20:41:06 < jpa-> once there was successful businessman tectu, but he didn't make babies, so there was no-one he could feel sad about when they didn't continue his life's work, and he had to turn to irc stories to find sadness
2021-07-06T20:42:41 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-33-155.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2021-07-06T20:42:52 < Steffann> I bet he can find a cry baby on IRC. 
2021-07-06T20:44:26 < Steffann> Or maybe twitter is better for that 
2021-07-06T20:45:07 < Steffann> Did you get covidded yet, tct?
2021-07-06T20:45:31 < tct> nah, I don't do that.
2021-07-06T20:47:58 < Steffann> Got your 5G shot then?
2021-07-06T20:50:58 < tct> nah, I am a simple member of society
2021-07-06T20:52:10 < Steffann> Not getting it or not your turn yet? No way .ch is this slow...
2021-07-06T21:06:16 < ventYl> today, I have used capacitor capacity meter feature on my DMM for the first time in my life
2021-07-06T21:06:26 < ventYl> it is as useless as I expected
2021-07-06T21:19:46 < BrainDamage> is it a large or small cap?
2021-07-06T21:20:03 < BrainDamage> for small caps, you can only measure them with a special attachmentt
2021-07-06T21:20:28 < ventYl> small one, it had color coding and I was lazy to decode it
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2021-07-06T21:32:37 < bitmask> man i fucked up the drilling of these holes in my copper plate, do i fix it or spend $15 and get a new one
2021-07-06T21:33:54 < Steffann> Do you have a spare $15?
2021-07-06T21:34:00 < bitmask> sure
2021-07-06T21:34:17 < ventYl> fix it, then spare another $15
2021-07-06T21:34:21  * ventYl approves
2021-07-06T21:34:44 < bitmask> oh it might not be as off as I thought
2021-07-06T21:34:59 < bitmask> i think i'll just drill out the holes a tiny bit and use washers
2021-07-06T21:37:39 < bitmask> ahh shit, i need a hole for the high voltage wire too
2021-07-06T21:37:50 < bitmask> i hate waiting for parts in the mail
2021-07-06T21:38:49 < bitmask> getting close to being finished, just wanna get there
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2021-07-06T21:45:06 < Steffann> mawk: why did you shoot a guy in Amsterdam?
2021-07-06T21:50:28 < BrainDamage> ventYl: the cable capacitance is significant for small caps
2021-07-06T21:52:18 < BrainDamage> you need a special fork thing that goes directly into the banana leads and comes out with a breadboard-like socket
2021-07-06T22:03:37 < ventYl> BrainDamage: it had special terminals for this purpose, you could stick cap pretty much "balls deep" there
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2021-07-06T22:15:26 < BrainDamage> https://video.corriere.it/mclaren-divorata-fiamme-tornanti-passo-pordoi/3e8cbb9a-dd5a-11eb-8676-1285755d8d46
2021-07-06T22:15:39 < BrainDamage> mclaren self combusted on an alpine pass
2021-07-06T22:19:28 < ventYl> lamborghinis and audis can do that too
2021-07-06T22:20:13 < ventYl> corvette will break down before it even reaches pass
2021-07-06T22:21:54 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-06T22:22:27 < upgrdman> anyone know how long until stm32 mcus are restocked? is the shortage expected to really be >1 year?
2021-07-06T22:23:44 < Steffann> no one really knows...
2021-07-06T22:25:03 < BrainDamage> the car industry thought sales would go down, and cancelled a crapton of orders, so the fabs allotted the time schedule to others, but covid threw people off public transportation, so sales went up
2021-07-06T22:25:25 < BrainDamage> they are still catching up with urgent backorders
2021-07-06T22:25:40 < BrainDamage> and it'll take a while to settle on the older schedule
2021-07-06T22:25:41 < ventYl> but stm32 is not used in automotive afaik
2021-07-06T22:26:02 < BrainDamage> doesn't matter, the fab time is the shared resource
2021-07-06T22:26:54 < BrainDamage> if they use the same fab as automotive parts, then they are affected
2021-07-06T22:27:10 < bitmask> can you split a thermocouple's output to go to two readers
2021-07-06T22:28:02 < BrainDamage> yes, you'll need to do cold junction compensation where you do the split tho
2021-07-06T22:28:29 < bitmask> hmm
2021-07-06T22:29:14 < BrainDamage> the point where the thermocouple touches another metal is the cold junction, and it measures temp relative to that
2021-07-06T22:29:27 < bitmask> gotcha
2021-07-06T22:29:48 < BrainDamage> after it's just a voltage signal you can treat like any other
2021-07-06T22:30:13 < BrainDamage> why do you need two readers?
2021-07-06T22:30:23 < ventYl> i made controller for one K thermocouple, which in reality was just an amplifier. it was for hillclimb car
2021-07-06T22:30:33 < ventYl> it gave readings of 1200+ deg. C
2021-07-06T22:30:59 < ventYl> engine builders told us that it is not possible to reach such combustion temperature even under full boost
2021-07-06T22:31:18 < ventYl> thermocouple died, propeller on turbo had signs of excess heat
2021-07-06T22:31:36 < bitmask> i dont really, i originally was gonna just have a led meter showing the temp made up of like 6 leds, then i got one of those cheap modules that actually displays the temp, i made the cutouts for both in the panel so im not sure what i wanna do
2021-07-06T22:31:45 < ventYl> later we found that exhaust was partially clogged by flexible connecting part, which caused excessive temperatures at / after turbo
2021-07-06T22:34:53 < bitmask> oh fuck, i cant do that anyway.... one uses a k type the other a j type
2021-07-06T22:37:10 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-33-155.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-06T22:37:22 < kakium69> ##gd32 meet in autumn?
2021-07-06T22:37:22 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-06T22:40:02 < Steffann> #nar
2021-07-06T22:40:02 < xnand> Use `#narUrl /nix/store/<path>` to query URL of the respective NAR
2021-07-06T22:40:15 < Steffann> #decide
2021-07-06T22:40:15 < xnand> `#decide a | b | c` to use the best AI out there to decide for you
2021-07-06T22:40:32 < Steffann> #decide fuck this bot?
2021-07-06T22:40:32 < xnand> fuck this bot?
2021-07-06T22:40:39 < Steffann> oh, it needs the | 
2021-07-06T22:40:41 < Steffann> nevermind
2021-07-06T22:41:17 < Steffann> will you be allowed to travel without your 5g shot, kakium69?
2021-07-06T22:41:30 < kakium69> oh yeas
2021-07-06T22:41:41 < fenugrec> #decide stm32 | msp430
2021-07-06T22:41:41 < xnand> stm32 
2021-07-06T22:41:46 < kakium69> I need to make an appointent
2021-07-06T22:54:02 < kakium69> norway accepts finns now!
2021-07-06T22:54:08 < kakium69> not all finns
2021-07-06T22:54:14 < kakium69> just from certain areas
2021-07-06T23:01:29 < zyp> cool, when are you coming?
2021-07-06T23:04:28 < Steffann> Time for an europe moped tour kakium69 
2021-07-06T23:04:45 < kakium69> zyp: do I need vaccination?
2021-07-06T23:05:04 < zyp> hmm, idk
2021-07-06T23:05:27 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-06T23:05:33 < kakium69> I live in "green zone"
2021-07-06T23:05:39 < zyp> checking
2021-07-06T23:05:43 < kakium69> nothing required
2021-07-06T23:05:53 < kakium69> just let them test you at the border
2021-07-06T23:06:14 < zyp> yep
2021-07-06T23:07:56 < kakium69> also I can go to sweden
2021-07-06T23:08:05 < kakium69> which is the quickest route
2021-07-06T23:08:28 < kakium69> get in the boat
2021-07-06T23:08:33 < kakium69> go to sweden
2021-07-06T23:08:38 < kakium69> go to norway
2021-07-06T23:08:55 < zyp> do you have a viking club card?
2021-07-06T23:10:20 -!- tkoskine_ is now known as tkoskine
2021-07-06T23:11:39 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@user/thorn] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
2021-07-06T23:14:46 < kakium69> no
2021-07-06T23:15:16 < tkoskine> looks like pretty much all finns are going to norway, yesterday there was 5h waiting time on the border ( https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12009423 ).
2021-07-06T23:19:13 < Steffann> heh, is that you kakium69 (that selfie on that website)
2021-07-06T23:19:53 < kakium69> no
2021-07-06T23:19:55 < kakium69> almost
2021-07-06T23:21:27 < kakium69> zyp: I think I need to wait to late summer or fall
2021-07-06T23:27:53 < Steffann> 2022?
2021-07-06T23:32:39 < kakium69> hmm
2021-07-06T23:32:54 < kakium69> well I got works
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2021-07-06T23:47:10 < bitmask> damn, i was worried about cutting this out but it came out perfect
2021-07-06T23:47:10 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/P2h73Fs.png
2021-07-06T23:55:38 < aandrew>  interesting, what's that cut out of
2021-07-06T23:56:42 < bitmask> buna-n
2021-07-06T23:56:48 < bitmask> nitrile
--- Day changed Wed Jul 07 2021
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2021-07-07T00:43:49 < zyp> karlp, is there any convenient cheap ways to translate modbus tcp to rtu?
2021-07-07T00:44:10 < zyp> bonus points if it has PoE
2021-07-07T00:45:31 < zyp> I suspect my best bet might be an rpi with a PoE module and a usb-rs485 cable, which is stuff I already got
2021-07-07T00:47:35 < karlp> sw or hw?
2021-07-07T00:47:54 < karlp> you're not going to find particularly cheap hw off the shelf, but depends what sw config is worth it to you.
2021-07-07T00:48:07 < zyp> well, either dedicated hardware, or software that'd run on the mentioned rpi solution
2021-07-07T00:48:11 < karlp> I think anybus and moxa both have hw options, and you can of course buy one of our gateways, which does the same thing.
2021-07-07T00:48:25 < karlp> for sw, we've never open sourced ours, but there's another one that came out recently.
2021-07-07T00:48:27 < karlp> let me dig it up
2021-07-07T00:49:26 < zyp> I seem to recall pymodbus can let me hook together a server and a client to act as a proxy?
2021-07-07T00:50:26 < karlp> yeah, you can do it with pymodbus, and I think umodbus too, but nor sure it's an out of the box solution
2021-07-07T00:50:43 < karlp> tehre's a C imple bnased on on libmodbus that just has a config file for mapping,
2021-07-07T00:50:57 < karlp> and we butil our own on libmodbus too, one sec, can't seem to find it yet.
2021-07-07T00:52:20 < zyp> I think this is what I were thinking of: https://pymodbus.readthedocs.io/en/latest/source/library/pymodbus.datastore.html#module-pymodbus.datastore.remote
2021-07-07T00:52:43 < karlp> yeah, I've never tried that personalyl though.
2021-07-07T00:52:47 < zyp> if I'm reading that right, just create a serial client, pass it to the remote context, pass the context to the server
2021-07-07T00:52:56 < karlp> mbusd! foudn it
2021-07-07T00:53:08 < karlp> https://github.com/3cky/mbusd
2021-07-07T00:53:11 < zyp> ah, nice
2021-07-07T00:53:20 < karlp> (haven't tried, but it looks ~equivalent to what we built and use internalyl)
2021-07-07T00:54:11 < zyp> perfect, complete with systemd support as well
2021-07-07T00:54:22 < karlp> that one bypasses libmodbus, as libmodbus is missing a few things to make this "easy" for some of the less common function codes.
2021-07-07T00:56:23 < zyp> this is for my HVAC thing that I've been messing around with before, was planning to write a translator to mqtt, but I'm evidently too lazy to do that and since home-assistant got modbus support anyway I might as well just map up the registers there instead
2021-07-07T00:56:48 < zyp> but I don't want to run rs485 over to the box that's running home-assistant
2021-07-07T00:56:53 < karlp> yeah, fuck that.
2021-07-07T00:57:01 < karlp> modbus tcp is way more convenient.
2021-07-07T00:57:18 < karlp> and modbus tcp allows you to buy all sorts of snake oils to go on top....
2021-07-07T00:58:03 < karlp> only reason to go to mqtt first is if you really want/need more data consumers, and the modbus device doesn't like/allow multiple/higher rates of requests.
2021-07-07T00:58:40 < karlp> though we just do it all the time anyway, as providing a "standard" json blob of converted values in si units is easier to work with than having the registers and formats into every consumer...
2021-07-07T00:59:07 < zyp> nah, the main reason mqtt would be better is that everything don't have to be centrally polled
2021-07-07T00:59:38 < karlp> well, someone still has to,
2021-07-07T00:59:39 < zyp> that's the main disadvantage with a dumber translator to modbus/tcp, it doesn't let the translator offload the polling work
2021-07-07T00:59:40 < karlp> but yeah, 
2021-07-07T01:00:10 < karlp> collectd can also read out modbus devices directly, hass can use that too iirc?
2021-07-07T01:00:20 < karlp> and collectd will automatically give you the "other" shit that it does.
2021-07-07T01:00:30 < karlp> lots of overlapping stacks :)
2021-07-07T01:00:35 < zyp> perhaps, haven't looked into collectd
2021-07-07T01:01:07 < karlp> I've been meaning to try subbing out our stuff for mbusd, see how well it works, but not really much of a priority for me :) let me know if it works well for you :)
2021-07-07T01:03:39 < zyp> yeah, if I get around to set up the rpi :)
2021-07-07T01:04:29 < karlp> heh, I have an opi here I'm about to setup hass on, for some summer house monitoring
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2021-07-07T01:12:19 < karlp> go amazon: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/R81jJ.png
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2021-07-07T03:08:03 < bitmask> hmm what do i work on now
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2021-07-07T12:27:08 < PaulFertser> Hm, AT32F403 is a new clone of F103?
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2021-07-07T12:45:41 < qyx> sounds exactly like STM32D11
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2021-07-07T13:22:39 < Laurenceb> supp
2021-07-07T13:22:45 < Laurenceb> anyone here used CAN bus?
2021-07-07T13:23:09 < Laurenceb> I'm wondering about RTR bit, can RTR be set on a packet with data payload or will that break everything?
2021-07-07T13:23:51 < Laurenceb> traction controllers are making me reeeeee
2021-07-07T13:24:15 < Laurenceb> they have CAN hardware that always ACKs, so I need software ACK to get reliable data exchange
2021-07-07T13:24:44 < Laurenceb> problem is if I ACK each received packet with a CAN frame, what it if is lost in transit?
2021-07-07T13:24:54 < Laurenceb> I think I need a sequence bit as well as soft ACK
2021-07-07T13:25:09 < Laurenceb> but 7 7/8 bits of payload is just lame
2021-07-07T13:25:20 < Laurenceb> *bytes
2021-07-07T13:26:18 < emeryth> how can a CAN frame be lost in transit?
2021-07-07T13:26:48 < Laurenceb> random glitches, CRC failure
2021-07-07T13:27:00 < Laurenceb> atm this bus has a ~0.1% loss rate
2021-07-07T13:27:31 < jpa-> maybe you should fix that
2021-07-07T13:27:38 < Laurenceb> shrug
2021-07-07T13:28:18 < Laurenceb> software should be robust enough to cope with a data link thats very slightly unreliable
2021-07-07T13:28:37 < Laurenceb> but I need to write the software
2021-07-07T13:30:02 < jpa-> if you get 0.1% loss in your test environment, you'll end up being unlucky and get 10% loss when shipped to customer
2021-07-07T13:30:22 < Laurenceb> also shrug
2021-07-07T13:30:33 < ventyl> Laurenceb: as I understand it, RTR is "pull request"
2021-07-07T13:30:37 < Laurenceb> but I seriously doubt it will be that much worse
2021-07-07T13:30:55 < ventyl> and IIRC, at least FDCAN has hard limitation, that RTR frame cannot have payload
2021-07-07T13:31:00 < Laurenceb> ah ok
2021-07-07T13:31:09 < Laurenceb> yeah I want to make this cross compatible
2021-07-07T13:31:13 < ventyl> you set RTR and DLC to indicate, how much data you expect to receive
2021-07-07T13:31:22 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-07T13:31:37 < Laurenceb> hmm I could set the LSB of the ID
2021-07-07T13:31:51 < Laurenceb> alternating 010101 
2021-07-07T13:31:56 < Laurenceb> USB uses this method
2021-07-07T13:32:06 < ventyl> if you are using plain CAN and you are sure there won't be any FDCAN HW, you can use DLC values >8 to carry additional information
2021-07-07T13:32:15 < Laurenceb>  (alternating sequence id, not LSB of ID)
2021-07-07T13:32:27 < Laurenceb> oooohhhh nice plan
2021-07-07T13:32:29 < Laurenceb> I like it
2021-07-07T13:32:40 < Laurenceb> yeah there are 4 bits of DLC
2021-07-07T13:32:45 < ventyl> what exact problem are you trying to solve?
2021-07-07T13:32:47 < Laurenceb> why did they even do that?
2021-07-07T13:33:02 < Laurenceb> ventyl: JSON over CAN (dont laugh)
2021-07-07T13:33:21 < ventyl> DLC is probably 4 bits long, so the whole message pads to length divisible by 8
2021-07-07T13:33:24 < Laurenceb> web20pointzero guy likes his JSON
2021-07-07T13:33:38 < ventyl> and there was no other useful place to stuff one exceeding bit
2021-07-07T13:33:50 < ventyl> did you hear about CanTp?
2021-07-07T13:33:57 < Laurenceb> no?
2021-07-07T13:34:09 < ventyl> CanTp does what you need, and socketcan has native support for it
2021-07-07T13:34:18 < Laurenceb> ok I'll see
2021-07-07T13:34:22 < ventyl> downside is, that CanTp is only defined for CAN, not FDCAN
2021-07-07T13:34:26 < Laurenceb> but Traction controller doesnt run lunix
2021-07-07T13:34:49 < ventyl> chevy corvette retractable rooftop neither ;)
2021-07-07T13:34:56 < ventyl> cantp is quite simple protocol
2021-07-07T13:35:19 < Laurenceb> oh yeah
2021-07-07T13:35:27 < Laurenceb> and traction controller is programmed in labview
2021-07-07T13:35:29 < Laurenceb> lolling
2021-07-07T13:35:36 < ventyl> busted.
2021-07-07T13:35:54 < qyx> json over cantp?
2021-07-07T13:36:06 < Laurenceb> I dunno
2021-07-07T13:36:12 < ventyl> how is that worse than protobuf over cantp?
2021-07-07T13:36:22 < qyx> sounds more adventurous than protobuf over cantp
2021-07-07T13:36:45 < Laurenceb> especially with labview insanity, but thats not my jerb
2021-07-07T13:36:50 < ventyl> Laurenceb: there's hard limitation of payload size inside cantp datagram to +- 4kB
2021-07-07T13:36:53 < ventyl> IIRC
2021-07-07T13:36:56 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-07T13:37:18 < Laurenceb> yeah my plan was to turn can into a tcp/ip style point to point byte stream
2021-07-07T13:37:18 < ventyl> otherwise it is quite flexible. you can configure transmit rate and ACK rate
2021-07-07T13:37:45 < Laurenceb> I've got ack working really well in lunix, like 300us turnaround time
2021-07-07T13:38:09 < Laurenceb> but if the ack packet is lost there could be repeated packets, so I need to identify and discard them
2021-07-07T13:38:21 < ventyl> cantp doesn't ack every frame, that's overkill if you have fragmented data
2021-07-07T13:39:24 < ventyl> in automotive, ack is usually not even used. if something is lost during transmission, then you'll miss reply from application layer sooner or later
2021-07-07T13:41:44 < ventyl> Laurenceb: what kind of payload is inside that json?
2021-07-07T13:41:55 < ventyl> is it some kind of telemetry, or commands?
2021-07-07T13:42:02 < Laurenceb> telemetry
2021-07-07T13:42:28 < ventyl> I wouldn't ack that
2021-07-07T13:42:44 < ventyl> at least not very extensively
2021-07-07T13:44:21 < Laurenceb> looks like cantp is designed to use hardware ack
2021-07-07T13:44:31 < ventyl> not really
2021-07-07T13:45:00 < Laurenceb> well it has no resend capability
2021-07-07T13:45:10 < Laurenceb> hardware ack has auto resend
2021-07-07T13:45:11 < ventyl> you have initial frame, this always has to be "Ack"ed by control frame, where recipient may configure after how many consecutive frames, another control frame shall be expected by sender
2021-07-07T13:45:32 < Laurenceb> yeah but if there is a failure it discards everything
2021-07-07T13:45:54 < Laurenceb> cantp on top of can with hardware ack would work really well even if there were a few lost frames
2021-07-07T13:46:05 < Laurenceb> but without hardware ack it would fail
2021-07-07T13:46:37 < Laurenceb> also it looks more complex to code in labview than basic ack resend with sequence bit
2021-07-07T13:46:43 < Laurenceb> but thanks for the idea
2021-07-07T13:47:15 < Laurenceb> I'm going to try abusing DLC in Linux
2021-07-07T13:47:22 < ventyl> you can take different approach, little less real-time, but easier
2021-07-07T13:48:36 < ventyl> stack telemetry records on sender side in ring buffer and transmit them with serial ID. telemetry receiver will then periodically report last ID it successfully received
2021-07-07T13:48:55 < ventyl> in case of failure, there will be bigger wire overhead, but in case of normal traffic, the situation will be less complicated
2021-07-07T13:51:13 < ventyl> I'd expect that if you will have so high drop rate, that ring buffer will overflow, you will have much bigger problem caused by dropped control frames
2021-07-07T13:52:53 < Laurenceb> yeah I thought of that one
2021-07-07T13:53:05 < Laurenceb> but itd be a lot of work for labview monkey
2021-07-07T13:53:37 < ventyl> can't you shrink playground for labview monkey, so devices and CAN are out of scope and shim it with some bare metal C?
2021-07-07T13:53:46 < Laurenceb> heh maybe
2021-07-07T13:53:57 < Laurenceb> you can build c functions into labview aiui
2021-07-07T13:53:58 < ventyl> matlab/simulink can be combined this way with bare metal C
2021-07-07T13:54:12 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-07T13:54:58 < Laurenceb> it could be 16 length ring buffer, then receiver sends a request packet if it doesnt have a packet with an "age" >8
2021-07-07T13:55:31 < ventyl> um no, receiver would send "delivery notices" periodically
2021-07-07T13:55:53 < ventyl> then you can use missing delivery notice as a sign of communication problem
2021-07-07T13:56:12 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-07T13:56:31 < ventyl> sender will then trim tail of ring buffer based on ID present in delivery notice
2021-07-07T13:57:16 < Laurenceb> if theres a single missing packet from ~4 ago then it gets complex in that case
2021-07-07T13:57:22 < ventyl> and if ID just received is older than current - X, will rewind transmission cursor
2021-07-07T13:57:28 < ventyl> no, it doesn't ^^
2021-07-07T13:57:57 < ventyl> you will simply resend everything since the point of one missing frame and design your physical layer so it is as robust as possible
2021-07-07T13:58:00 < Laurenceb> ok I guess
2021-07-07T13:58:27 < ventyl> this way you get a lot of overhead in case of failure, but you expect that there are almost no failures under normal conditions
2021-07-07T13:58:38 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-07T13:58:48 < Laurenceb> but transmitter doesnt need to know if its broken
2021-07-07T13:59:18 < ventyl> well, if you ask for reliable telemetry, then it needs to know that
2021-07-07T13:59:44 < ventyl> normally, transmitter would just scream into CAN and don't care if anyone is listening
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2021-07-07T14:02:15 < ventyl> and one obvious, but often omitted detail: never ever let two different nodes to transmit using same CAN ID. you'll fuck up arbitration
2021-07-07T14:02:43 < Laurenceb> I know
2021-07-07T14:03:09 < Laurenceb> also a problem we have seen with soft ack: the ack id needs to have lower priority id than the transmitters
2021-07-07T14:03:22 < Laurenceb> or the transmitter with the highest priority will hug the bus
2021-07-07T14:03:27 < Laurenceb> *hog
2021-07-07T14:04:53 < Laurenceb> you need everything to be able to talk before ack is sent
2021-07-07T14:04:55 < ventyl> it pays off to schedule your communication on CAN
2021-07-07T14:06:37 < Laurenceb> actually this bus hogging issue might be a reason to go with an ack scheme
2021-07-07T14:06:39 < ventyl> so let's say you have 1kB of payload you need to send every second, which accounts for 33 CAN frames, so you'll set transmission interval to 30ms, 30*33 = 990ms for full transmission and you have a lot of idle bus time in between these frames for other communication taking place
2021-07-07T14:06:45 < Laurenceb> it resolves bus hogging issues
2021-07-07T14:08:17 < englishman> if he has 1kB of data and 0.1% BER, he'll probably never get good data
2021-07-07T14:09:33 < ventyl> well, if he has 0.1% BER, then the highest priority should be resolve that high dropout rate IMO
2021-07-07T14:09:42 < englishman> yeah, might as well go with LoRa
2021-07-07T14:09:44 < ventyl> as it also affects commands, which may be time cricital
2021-07-07T14:11:46 < ventyl> next, I would shrink amount of data as transmitting stringly typed telemetry over something as bandwidth contrained as CAN is plain lunacy
2021-07-07T14:15:52 < Laurenceb> 0.1% PER, not BEr
2021-07-07T14:15:56 < Laurenceb> >Data-length code. The number in these bits determines how many data bytes are sent or received.
2021-07-07T14:15:57 < Laurenceb> Valid value range is from 0 to 8. Values from 9 to 15 are not allowed.
2021-07-07T14:15:58 < Laurenceb> reeeee
2021-07-07T14:16:17 < Laurenceb> well thats not going to work
2021-07-07T14:16:50 < Laurenceb> will have to be the least significant bit of the address
2021-07-07T14:17:52 < ventyl> or, you can use one fact
2021-07-07T14:18:52 < ventyl> you can use ID, which is 29 bits long, but 12th and higher bits are set to 0, which means, that numerically ID will fit within 11 bit ID
2021-07-07T14:19:16 < ventyl> you can then check if ID was extended or not
2021-07-07T14:19:28 < ventyl> at least in controller, not sure about socketcan
2021-07-07T14:19:49 < Laurenceb> socketcan has a flag bit for extended
2021-07-07T14:20:17 < ventyl> I considered this as a way of formation of side channels
2021-07-07T14:20:26 < ventyl> but then abandonned idea of side channels completely
2021-07-07T14:20:27 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-07-07T14:20:46 < Laurenceb> well 11bit with sequence bit would allow 1023 devices, probably ok
2021-07-07T14:21:04 < Laurenceb> there will only be a few devices on each network, but they are intended to be swappable
2021-07-07T14:22:05 < ventyl> hm, such side channels fuck arbitration up a lot as there is a lot of zeroes, which effectively pushes out any high priority communication
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2021-07-07T15:19:47 < englishman> is SRAM always initialized at 0? or are there some devices that initialize to 1? not talking about stm32 specifically, but SRAM devices in general
2021-07-07T15:19:59 < englishman> i guess this would depend on the compiler/linker as well?
2021-07-07T15:20:22 < fenugrec> on reset I don't think you can make any assumption about contents of ram
2021-07-07T15:20:24 < ventyl> bss is usually guarranteed to be zero initialized
2021-07-07T15:20:27 < fenugrec> but anything in .bss will be zeord
2021-07-07T15:20:29 < ventyl> by startup code
2021-07-07T15:20:40 < englishman> hmm, good point
2021-07-07T15:20:52 < ventyl> rest is random garbage
2021-07-07T15:20:58 < englishman> i wonder if generally it's random data or mostly 0s or 1s
2021-07-07T15:21:42 < fenugrec> probably low-quality randomness with some bias depending on silicon
2021-07-07T15:21:48 < ventyl> random data, given by what landed in silicone, in what state multivibration will end up after being powered on
2021-07-07T15:21:55 < englishman> the larger question being, if i see a field of 0xFF, can i definitively say that it did not come from uninitialized RAM
2021-07-07T15:22:01 < englishman> i guess the answer is, yes
2021-07-07T15:22:17 < ventyl> i wouldn't bet on it
2021-07-07T15:22:21 < englishman> right.
2021-07-07T15:22:30 < fenugrec> eeh, wouldn't make important decisions based on that. Also I'll just let ventyl  answer, we're saying the same things P )
2021-07-07T15:22:53 < BrainDamage> use a longer sequence a specific piece of data
2021-07-07T15:22:54 < ventyl> statistically, distribution will most probably be normal, so you have 1:256 chance that random garbage will become 0xFF
2021-07-07T15:23:29 < BrainDamage> eg a hardcoded 128 bit sequence will be extremely unlikely to be generated by a process
2021-07-07T15:25:03 < BrainDamage> bonus points if the sequence is the hash of a meme
2021-07-07T15:28:04 < englishman> problem comes from a flash page being verified incorrectly
2021-07-07T15:28:11 < englishman> no checksum, values are simply compared
2021-07-07T15:28:26 < englishman> comparing float with NaN returns true, and 0xff repeated is NaN
2021-07-07T15:28:34 < englishman> software developed by an analolgue engineer.
2021-07-07T15:28:37 < fenugrec> haahah nice
2021-07-07T15:28:42 < fenugrec> but ram != flash
2021-07-07T15:29:34 < englishman> right, there are for example 3 chars of data stored in a 4-char array, so sometimes we see 0x00 as the last byte (init'd in ram) or 0xff (init'd likely in flash, but maybe also sram)
2021-07-07T15:29:40 < englishman> trying to debug when, exactly
2021-07-07T15:29:58 < fenugrec> o nice
2021-07-07T15:30:23 < fenugrec> you could tweak your .ld file and taint the whole ram with 0x55 or something more recognizable than ff
2021-07-07T15:30:37 < englishman> battery powered device as well, so i'm not sure if sram is ever depowered, not familiar with msp420 sleep modes
2021-07-07T15:30:46 < englishman> haha :)
2021-07-07T15:31:11 < englishman> i like it
2021-07-07T15:31:37 < BrainDamage> doesn't msp420 have fram?
2021-07-07T15:31:49 < BrainDamage> that one holds data in power off too
2021-07-07T15:32:01 < englishman> not all of them afaik
2021-07-07T15:32:03 < BrainDamage> on brownout it backups to permanent storage
2021-07-07T15:32:05 < englishman> but good point
2021-07-07T15:32:08 < englishman> maybe it is all of them
2021-07-07T15:33:15 < BrainDamage> worth checking for that specific device anyway
2021-07-07T15:34:15 < MrMobius> the ones with FR in the name have fram
2021-07-07T15:34:25 < englishman> it's SRAM
2021-07-07T15:34:36 < englishman> looks like FRAM replaces the flash, not the SRAM
2021-07-07T15:35:25 < MrMobius> i think it's limited to 8mhz or so
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2021-07-07T17:56:24 < qyx> limited to 8 MHz and no multiplication
2021-07-07T17:59:00 < tct> The take on ada is interesting: http://www.toodarkpark.org/computers/humor/shoot-self-in-foot.html
2021-07-07T18:16:10 < qyx> Linux You shoot yourself in the foot with a Gnu
2021-07-07T18:16:12 < qyx> hah
2021-07-07T18:16:26 < tct> the UNIX one is pretty good too
2021-07-07T18:18:20 < qyx> I was about to say that too
2021-07-07T18:22:10 < BrainDamage> i have rm aliased to trash-put for that very reason
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2021-07-07T18:26:23 < mawk> Steffann 
2021-07-07T18:26:34 < mawk> how do you say "chemistry supplies" or whatever in dutch
2021-07-07T18:26:37 < mawk> what do I put into google
2021-07-07T18:26:50 < mawk> I need glassware
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2021-07-07T19:08:03 < tct> are you going to manufacture gun powder to shoot journalists in the head?
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2021-07-07T19:12:42 < tct> mawk, gf says: Chemische benodigdheden
2021-07-07T19:13:16 < mawk> thanks
2021-07-07T19:13:20 < mawk> no tct just drugs
2021-07-07T19:13:53 < mawk> I need a few béchers, stirring stuff, heating stuff, vials
2021-07-07T19:14:02 < tct> mawk, gf also says:  *scheikundige benodigdheden
2021-07-07T19:14:05 < tct> "is better"
2021-07-07T19:14:23 < BrainDamage> if you could make your own methadone you could probably simplify your life a bit
2021-07-07T19:17:02 < mawk> I'm sure it's a prank now tct
2021-07-07T19:17:12 < mawk> that probably means "future inmate glassware"
2021-07-07T19:17:49 < mawk> yes BrainDamage 
2021-07-07T19:17:55 < mawk> but it's a quite complex synthesis
2021-07-07T19:18:02 < mawk> it's fully synthetic even I think
2021-07-07T19:18:09 < karlp> englishman: yeah, I've seen startup codez that zeroed bss, and also painted all the rest of sram with various patterns.  I think it's even a configurable standard option in freertos...
2021-07-07T19:18:13 < mawk> not poppy derived
2021-07-07T19:19:28 < Steffann> I would have said "chemische" toe mawk
2021-07-07T19:20:08 < Steffann> To.
2021-07-07T19:20:31 < Steffann> Since "scheikunde" == "chemie" 
2021-07-07T19:24:28 < Steffann> I would probably look for something like "laboratorium materiaal" > lab equipment 
2021-07-07T19:25:15 < Steffann> Go buy, mawk: https://www.eurofysica.nl/webshop/laboratorium-materiaal
2021-07-07T19:26:37 < BrainDamage> i like how there's beermaking stuff in the mid of all that chemistry equipment
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2021-07-07T19:32:01 < bitmask> good afternoon peeps
2021-07-07T19:32:38 < tct> hi
2021-07-07T19:32:42 < tct> thanks for joining in.
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2021-07-07T19:35:29 < mawk> lol
2021-07-07T19:35:31 < mawk> thabks 
2021-07-07T19:35:37 < mawk> thanks steff a n n
2021-07-07T19:35:41 < mawk> and tct
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2021-07-07T19:37:15 < tct> happy to help.
2021-07-07T19:37:41 < mawk> thanks Steffanx 
2021-07-07T19:41:08 < mawk> uncalibrated ph meter is rubbish
2021-07-07T19:41:16 < mawk> why does it need cal BrainDamage 
2021-07-07T19:41:24 < mawk> it's a glass electrode inside apparently
2021-07-07T19:42:07 < mawk> there's some water inside, and a dangling wire
2021-07-07T19:42:15 < englishman> they need cal rather often
2021-07-07T19:42:25 < mawk> if it's calibrated once and nothing moves why should they need recalibration
2021-07-07T19:42:43 < englishman> changing charge on the glass part
2021-07-07T19:42:46 < englishman> or something
2021-07-07T19:42:48 < mawk> ah
2021-07-07T19:42:51 < englishman> chemical shit
2021-07-07T19:42:55 < mawk> weird
2021-07-07T19:42:58 < englishman> yes
2021-07-07T19:42:59 < fenugrec> measuring ph is a bitch
2021-07-07T19:43:02 < englishman> ^^
2021-07-07T19:43:04 < mawk> charges on the glass should vanish quickly
2021-07-07T19:43:34 < englishman> the ph strips i have for the hot tub diverge from my electronic ph meter readings after about 3 months
2021-07-07T19:43:45 < tct> depending on the industry you're in they also just really love to send a calibration team to you every couple of months followed by an invoice :p
2021-07-07T19:43:47 < fenugrec> also, if you got a ~ cheap 0-14 electronic ph meter (with the glass vial), don't try it in concentrated HCl. They don't like negative pH (because that's a thing)
2021-07-07T19:44:09 < tct> $company is doing PH sensor calibrations every 8 weeks
2021-07-07T19:44:15 < bitmask> if you make a solenoid and attach the rod to a spring and slowly increase the current can you get a smooth motion?
2021-07-07T19:44:39 < mawk> my company is designing a soil ph meter
2021-07-07T19:44:45 < mawk> without recalibration apparently
2021-07-07T19:44:51 < mawk> stays in the ground 5 years
2021-07-07T19:44:58 < mawk> I wonder if it's even possible
2021-07-07T19:45:41 < tct> bitmask, solenoids and slow/smooth motion are usually not things that go together that well
2021-07-07T19:45:59 < mawk> maybe with gears tct
2021-07-07T19:46:09 < mawk> slow movement with big reduction or whatever
2021-07-07T19:46:12 < bitmask> i dont have a lot/any experience with them, but i thought my idea would help
2021-07-07T19:46:27 < tct> mawk, if you go through the efforts of introducing gears into a solenoid based mechanism you'll likely be able to do it without a solenoid to begin with :p
2021-07-07T19:46:38 < mawk> lol
2021-07-07T19:46:39 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-07T19:46:53 < mawk> if you don't write pH you go to hell tct and englishman 
2021-07-07T19:46:58 < mawk> not ph nor PH
2021-07-07T19:47:04 < bitmask> i guess i'll make one later and play with it and see how it behaves
2021-07-07T19:47:07 < mawk> → h e l l
2021-07-07T19:47:13 < bitmask> maybe i'll get some better ideas
2021-07-07T19:47:43 < mawk> maybe using a spring to load the "motor"
2021-07-07T19:47:53 < mawk> so the movement is impended and smoother
2021-07-07T19:47:53 < bitmask> thats what i said
2021-07-07T19:47:55 < mawk> but takes more power
2021-07-07T19:47:58 < mawk> ah
2021-07-07T19:48:07 < mawk> then I guess it will work
2021-07-07T19:48:16 < mawk> if we both had the same idea it must be a good one
2021-07-07T19:48:21 < bitmask> heh
2021-07-07T19:48:34 < bitmask> maybe you read it and just stole the idea without realizing :P
2021-07-07T19:48:46 < mawk> lol
2021-07-07T19:48:57 < mawk> no I didn't read it, my screen is small
2021-07-07T19:49:00 < mawk> I was scrolled up
2021-07-07T19:49:04 < mawk> or down rather
2021-07-07T19:49:11 < bitmask> :)
2021-07-07T19:49:36 < bitmask> man i wanna finish my cloud chamber but i gotta wait for these standoffs
2021-07-07T19:50:12 < mawk> mexican standoffs?
2021-07-07T19:50:22 < bitmask> of course
2021-07-07T19:50:57 < bitmask> and im waiting for 18650 battery holders to power the high voltage
2021-07-07T19:51:44 < mawk> just solder thel
2021-07-07T19:51:45 < mawk> them
2021-07-07T19:51:52 < mawk> safest way
2021-07-07T19:52:05 < bitmask> safest way is spot welding
2021-07-07T19:52:13 < bitmask> soldering can damage them
2021-07-07T19:52:18 < machinehum> Is there such thing as a contact that will go from a 0.1mm normal pin to something the diameter as a needle? 
2021-07-07T19:52:18 < mawk> yes I was joking
2021-07-07T19:52:28 < bitmask> but you may be right
2021-07-07T19:52:30 < ventyl> fucking idiotic moronic bosch siemens hausgerate software developers
2021-07-07T19:52:31 < bitmask> maybe i should spot weld it
2021-07-07T19:52:34 < mawk> an actual needle machinehum ?
2021-07-07T19:52:35 < ventyl> fuck fuck fuck
2021-07-07T19:52:48 < tct> machinehum, sounds like you're in business for regular needles
2021-07-07T19:52:52 < tct> damit mawk
2021-07-07T19:52:52 < machinehum> I have this PCEe connector with very small little contacts on the top
2021-07-07T19:53:02 < mawk> lol
2021-07-07T19:53:02 < machinehum> lol no just something really small diameter
2021-07-07T19:53:07 < tct> machinehum, permanent or for development/debugging?
2021-07-07T19:53:16 < machinehum> I already have lots of needles guys
2021-07-07T19:53:20 < tct> machinehum, <insert dick joke>
2021-07-07T19:53:28 < machinehum> tct: Debugging
2021-07-07T19:53:41 < machinehum> Need to get a logic analyser in there
2021-07-07T19:53:43 < tct> machinehum, https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3615910
2021-07-07T19:55:49 < machinehum> "0.30x30mm Acupuncture Needles"
2021-07-07T19:55:56 < machinehum> I need to bill it to my company lol
2021-07-07T19:56:14 < tct> works great
2021-07-07T19:56:27 < tct> nice nick btw
2021-07-07T19:56:38 < machinehum> But yeah that's pretty much exactly what I need... but just from digikey and ideally with the 0.1mm headers already on
2021-07-07T19:57:09 < tct> I doubt that you'll find something like that off-the-shelf
2021-07-07T19:57:31 < machinehum> :/
2021-07-07T20:01:15 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/1607577/4472756
2021-07-07T20:01:16 < BrainDamage> ic probes are a thing
2021-07-07T20:01:23 < BrainDamage> prepare to shell out 1k$
2021-07-07T20:01:43 < tct> machinehum, those are like regular pogo pins
2021-07-07T20:01:47 < BrainDamage> try to search for probing stations
2021-07-07T20:02:03 < tct> BrainDamage, "probing station" is like 5k$ :p
2021-07-07T20:02:21 < tct> machinehum, if the ones you linked get the job done you might wanna look for "pogo pins"
2021-07-07T20:03:23 < machinehum> Basically I need to jam a contact in the little holes in the top here https://imgur.com/uY2Ww4s
2021-07-07T20:03:40 < machinehum> While a card is plugged in
2021-07-07T20:04:03 < tct> machinehum, that looks like you can just solder a wire on the contact of the connector (eg. the pad on the PCB)??
2021-07-07T20:04:12 < machinehum> nah
2021-07-07T20:04:17 < machinehum> Well I could
2021-07-07T20:04:23 < machinehum> But it's all mounted and shit
2021-07-07T20:04:43 < ventyl> or get riser, put riser in between card and base and hijack signals on riser
2021-07-07T20:05:01 < tct> does it really take more time to take it out, solder wire(s) on it, put it back than to fiddle with tiny (spring loaded) needles where you're not sure whether the connection is reliable at any moment?
2021-07-07T20:06:12 < tct> also waiting for digikey delivery ;p
2021-07-07T20:06:55 < ventyl> well at least, waiting is a no-op
2021-07-07T20:07:22 < BrainDamage> is that a pci-e connector?
2021-07-07T20:07:30 < BrainDamage> because if so, there's pci-e taps
2021-07-07T20:07:37 < tct> BrainDamage thinking in terms of interception cable?
2021-07-07T20:07:42 < tct> "cable"
2021-07-07T20:07:53 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-07-07T20:08:13 < ventyl> let's see how USB charger will like 80V fed back into 5V rail
2021-07-07T20:08:23 < jpa-> yeah, if you really plan to be able to probe a lot of signals at once, the connections have to be reliable
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2021-07-07T20:08:44 < tct> that ^
2021-07-07T20:09:57 < machinehum> Yeah I should be able to clip my little saleae probe things to those gold contacts
2021-07-07T20:09:57 < machinehum> Any other cool shit I should buy from digikey and bill to my company?
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2021-07-07T20:10:53 < jpa-> how about a dual static shit regstr?  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/harris-corporation/CD4015BFX/12135084
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2021-07-07T20:12:56 < qyx> not in stock
2021-07-07T20:13:14 < qyx> jpa-: what do you think about cbor?
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2021-07-07T20:15:33 < ventyl> chinesium THT LEDs: made with physical contacts reversed to electrical polarity
2021-07-07T20:16:30 < jpa-> qyx: because it is schema-less, it always retransmits the string keys; thus the encoded messages are kind of large, and at that point one might as well just use json
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2021-07-07T22:49:24 < englishman> https://www.reddit.com/r/FPGA/comments/ofp2tn/why_do_sales_on_this_fpga_board_suck_so_much/
2021-07-07T23:18:24 < sauce> two opposing use cases and market segments with completely opposed technical constraints and requirements
2021-07-07T23:26:14 < zyp> I've looked at that board before, I don't get the point of calling it stackable when it lacks the stacking connectors
2021-07-07T23:28:21 < sauce> also those samtec mezzanine connectors suck
2021-07-07T23:28:53 < zyp> because they're bad or because they're pricy?
2021-07-07T23:28:56 < sauce> yes
2021-07-07T23:29:33 < zyp> I've looked at the syzygy standard before, I think it looks reasonable enough
2021-07-07T23:29:50 < sauce> yeah other than the connector it seems fine
2021-07-07T23:30:25 < zyp> as I see it, it fits a niche between pmod and FMC that nothing else covers
2021-07-07T23:31:12 < zyp> compared to FMC it's cheap
2021-07-07T23:31:18 < zyp> so, what's bad about it?
2021-07-07T23:36:00 < sauce> it seems pretty fragile to me but i guess the rating is 500 cycles?
2021-07-07T23:39:03 < sauce> ah it's a different series from the ones I am used to nevermind
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2021-07-08T00:38:43 < machinehum> What would anyone use that for?
2021-07-08T00:38:48 < machinehum> I didn't understand the use case
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2021-07-08T01:28:37 < englishman> pretty cool of them to ask a community honestly, and they seem to have a lot of feedback that should be useful, though some of it is obvious as you guys have stated
2021-07-08T01:28:56 < englishman> probably a case of designing in a void
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2021-07-08T07:58:36 < R2COM> fucking youtube shit is so laggy, i mean for a fucking thing im paying $17/mon for it should load comments fast
2021-07-08T07:58:51 < R2COM> i wonder if its cuz its so overrloaded and cant serve huge demand
2021-07-08T07:59:07 < R2COM> i wish platforms like lbry get more popular
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2021-07-08T09:00:41 < R2COM> why github instructions telling rename master to main?
2021-07-08T09:00:49 < R2COM> it doesnt change anything technically tho?
2021-07-08T09:01:32 < Xogium> no, it doesn't. It's purely because apparently, master is bad
2021-07-08T09:01:44 < Xogium> like slave and master
2021-07-08T09:02:03 < Xogium> but if it is then you might as well rename everything back to how IDE drives worked
2021-07-08T09:02:13 < R2COM> lol wat
2021-07-08T09:02:34 < R2COM> ohh
2021-07-08T09:02:54 < R2COM> fuuck... how didnt i figure that out
2021-07-08T09:02:56 < R2COM> lmao
2021-07-08T09:03:05 < Xogium> ;)
2021-07-08T09:03:11 < R2COM> i forgot that opensores is driven by libfags....of course
2021-07-08T09:03:18 < Xogium> it's just, ethical I think the word is ?
2021-07-08T09:03:23 < R2COM> alsto before every comit you must get out of your desk and sit on a knee
2021-07-08T09:03:40 < R2COM> what is ethical?
2021-07-08T09:03:57 < Xogium> the whole thing, it's only for that purpose
2021-07-08T09:04:30 < Xogium> might be the wrong wording though hehe
2021-07-08T09:04:40 < R2COM> but its not ethical at all
2021-07-08T09:04:44 < R2COM> its idiotism
2021-07-08T09:04:56 < steve__> it's more of a USA initiative seems like, also it's not the opensource people it's faang si valley people
2021-07-08T09:04:57 < R2COM> serves no purpose other than populism
2021-07-08T09:05:31 < R2COM> im not supporting that initiative
2021-07-08T09:06:12 < R2COM> if some thug with 9 criminal records, one of which is robbing pregnant woman by holding gun to her belly died under knee of cop, that doesnt mean I must re-write my source code, for fucks sake
2021-07-08T09:06:27 < R2COM> i swear biggest enemies of usa are inside usa...
2021-07-08T09:06:39 < steve__> you should name your master branch to slave in protest :p
2021-07-08T09:07:11 < steve__> another thing they do is "leader/follower" for situations where there actually is a master/slave relationship
2021-07-08T09:07:21 < R2COM> git branch -m MAGA
2021-07-08T09:07:39 < R2COM> yeah but fucking why
2021-07-08T09:07:52 < R2COM> wait
2021-07-08T09:07:55 < R2COM> protest to what
2021-07-08T09:07:59 < R2COM> what i need to protest against?
2021-07-08T09:09:49 < Xogium> I litterally just left mine to master and did not bother
2021-07-08T09:10:04 < steve__> writing the word master is one thing but writing the word slave in code is getting close to being awkward.  perhaps analgaous to abreviating "int count;" to a shorter, 4 letter word.  you woulnd't do that.
2021-07-08T09:10:56 < R2COM> i wouldnt do that cuz cunt is not count
2021-07-08T09:10:58 < Xogium> I mean it's just code ffs
2021-07-08T09:11:07 < R2COM> but why wouldnt I write slave?
2021-07-08T09:11:09 < R2COM> why?
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2021-07-08T09:11:31 < R2COM> i hope you trolling
2021-07-08T09:12:26 < steve__> because you're ashamed of your country's past and you have multiple coworkers of african or native descent
2021-07-08T09:12:32 < Xogium> it's like what I said with IDE earlier, or midi keyboards, there's master and slave there as well so, they might as well go all the way or not do it at all. It is just ridiculous
2021-07-08T09:13:04 < R2COM> 1) I'm not ashamed cuz I'm not originally from murica
2021-07-08T09:14:13 < steve__> ok then you're good to go, litter it up.  you must not have any american coworkers under the age of 30 lol
2021-07-08T09:14:23 < R2COM> 2) Lemme educate you... did you actually know that during those times when slavery was practicing, it was the african leaders who been selling their people to europeans? know why? cuz they been doing it to themselves as well during short wars and conflicts. and it was the main type of interaction with europeans
2021-07-08T09:14:53 < R2COM> i.e. vast majority of cases of slavery were initiated by blacks selling blacks to someone else, sometimes blacks too or arabs
2021-07-08T09:15:28 < jpa-> getting rid of "master" in technical literature is great for me, because there never was a good translation of master to finish
2021-07-08T09:15:31 < jpa-> *finnish
2021-07-08T09:15:57 < steve__> yikes we got a facist :\
2021-07-08T09:16:00 < Xogium> to me honestly, master and slave in that context are meaningless… It's just words. I don't associate master branch with anything in relation with slavery or whatever
2021-07-08T09:16:23 < jpa-> steve__: you only now noticed it? try discussing gun policy next :)
2021-07-08T09:16:30 < R2COM> you are troll of lvl 999
2021-07-08T09:17:00 < steve__> lol i did, i am so bored.  usually only interested in on-topic
2021-07-08T09:17:06 < R2COM> but you are uneducated...really... its pathetic. you need to know terminology of a word before applying it. please see what means fascism
2021-07-08T09:18:24 < R2COM> i stated historical reality, which cant be denied...
2021-07-08T09:18:29 < steve__> well there's known trolls here but maybe i'm not hip to the meta.
2021-07-08T09:18:30 < R2COM> so stating obvious means racist?
2021-07-08T09:19:31 < R2COM> people nowadays are really..... not smart
2021-07-08T09:20:18 < jpa-> people have never been fully "smart"
2021-07-08T09:20:32 < R2COM> indeed... in fact most people are really dumb
2021-07-08T09:20:55 < R2COM> which is why I think that absolute democracy is really a bad thing
2021-07-08T09:21:03 < jpa-> and communication has always been like that, if you present a mostly irrelevant fact that is commonly used by some group of people, you get associated with them
2021-07-08T09:21:24 < R2COM> you talking about my fact?
2021-07-08T09:21:35 < jpa-> R2COM: you have to realize though, you yourself are not really as smart as you think either
2021-07-08T09:21:57 < R2COM> im definitely not Maxwell, of course.
2021-07-08T09:22:52 < R2COM> but I have enough brains to bring historical argument highlighing the fact that slavery was initiated and kept active by black population of africa, when confronted with the arguments like "we have to be ashamed of past"
2021-07-08T09:23:01 < R2COM> so..that was very relevant fact
2021-07-08T09:23:06 < jpa-> and yes, i think history of slavery is mostly irrelevant to the use of master/slave nowadays; it is all a matter of whether it offends someone, and whether offending them should be avoided or not
2021-07-08T09:23:26 < R2COM> well... if someone is offended, it is his problem
2021-07-08T09:23:54 < steve__> branch 0 sounds good, less characters to type
2021-07-08T09:24:02 < jpa-> yeah, that is a common viewpoint of those who don't support getting rid of the terminology; usually they quote that "those who are easily offended ..."
2021-07-08T09:24:17 < R2COM> and they are right
2021-07-08T09:24:29 < R2COM> you know why? - cuz theres infinite number of things which can get many people offended
2021-07-08T09:24:43 < R2COM> this is just one, theres sooo...many more...nationalities, ethnic, conflicts etc etc etc
2021-07-08T09:24:46 < steve__> you seem offended
2021-07-08T09:24:48 < jpa-> and yet, there is a lot of people who consider that there is no point intentionally offending others, and that the quote is stupid; and they are right according to other people with that opinion
2021-07-08T09:24:49 < R2COM> 10001 ways to offend
2021-07-08T09:25:27 < R2COM> intentionally offending? of course... but noone does that
2021-07-08T09:25:59 < R2COM> do you see intentional offending of blakcs by whites in mass quantities nowadays? i dont think so
2021-07-08T09:25:59 < jpa-> when you know that a specific term offends a group of people, and keep using it, it becomes intentional
2021-07-08T09:26:17 < R2COM> of course there are some small amount of rogue people like that...but thats the case with any issue
2021-07-08T09:27:13 < jpa-> but the stupid quote even promotes intentionally offending people, just because "they are easily offended" - and some interpret it exactly like that, as if that would somehow make things better
2021-07-08T09:27:18 < R2COM> i used it before, and suddenly in 2020 i cannot because now that group of stupid people decided I need to change my format?
2021-07-08T09:27:25 < R2COM> that sounds imbecilistic
2021-07-08T09:28:19 < steve__> lol he's so pissed, this was like atleast a year or 2 ago
2021-07-08T09:28:21 < R2COM> well...excuse me my lefty "friend", it doesn't mean that we going to address every sudden demand of your easily offendable requests
2021-07-08T09:28:29 < R2COM> tomorrow youll think or remember something new
2021-07-08T09:28:44 < R2COM> and next day what? we have maybe to give all we have to you so you dont get offended or what?
2021-07-08T09:28:53 < R2COM> or maybe we should even pay you some contribution?
2021-07-08T09:29:59 < R2COM> nah im not pissed im just pointing out facts
2021-07-08T09:30:19 < R2COM> straight and simple... without any clown masks
2021-07-08T09:30:32 < jpa-> yeah, USA would probably be improved by some kind of income redistribution scheme, but that seems a long time away
2021-07-08T09:30:48 < R2COM> so my children will have to pay contribution?
2021-07-08T09:31:04 < jpa-> maybe, if your society develops in that direction
2021-07-08T09:31:12 < R2COM> lol
2021-07-08T09:31:18 < R2COM> and to whom i need to pay ?
2021-07-08T09:31:21 < jpa-> as a benefit you'll get a place where you don't have to carry a gun to be safe
2021-07-08T09:31:22 < R2COM> can you tell ?
2021-07-08T09:31:40 < R2COM> thanks i dont need that benefit. lol leave it to yourself
2021-07-08T09:31:52 < R2COM> wow so thats like a mafia talk!
2021-07-08T09:31:59 < R2COM> pay us...and youll be safe
2021-07-08T09:32:08 < R2COM> funny
2021-07-08T09:32:18 < Xogium> I'm glad I don't live in the US ;) blind guy using a gun, now that would not end well
2021-07-08T09:32:21 < Xogium> :D
2021-07-08T09:32:24 < steve__> note, I would venture a guess that about ~0.01% of repos in public or private github actually name their initial branch "main" or renamed master to main.  nobody's forcing you to do anything.  perhaps try some hemmorhoid cream
2021-07-08T09:32:26 < jpa-> i'm not sure how average USA citizen is like, but it seems that many are not satisfied with the current situation in your country
2021-07-08T09:33:01 < R2COM> well yes, this country is getting into a shithole, not going to argue on that
2021-07-08T09:33:08 < R2COM> and reason for that is liberalism
2021-07-08T09:33:18 < steve__> lol
2021-07-08T09:34:31 < R2COM> your last sentence ending just showed your iq, and indicated that you actually are hurt
2021-07-08T09:34:33 < sauce> you seem pretty mad for someone calling others easily offended
2021-07-08T09:35:06 < sauce> oh we're already working that angle, carry on
2021-07-08T09:36:02 < R2COM> sorry guys...maybe its cuz i now installed linux in vm and somehow picked up Torvald's attitude
2021-07-08T09:36:14 < R2COM> or is Torvalds getting softer nowadays
2021-07-08T09:36:43 < Xogium> he's softer, yes. Maybe not by much, but he is. He actually went to anger management, afaik
2021-07-08T09:37:07 < jpa-> R2COM: USA being so divided is actually scary for the rest of the world; it wouldn't be that bad if it just went the ultra-liberal-woke-direction or ultra-capitalistic-direction, but the most effective way to solve internal conflicts in USA seems to be to start a war somewhere else in the world ;)
2021-07-08T09:37:35 < steve__> i wonder if this issue could be used to get the trumpies interested in tech
2021-07-08T09:37:44 < R2COM> jpa- maybe we should invade your motherland Finland?
2021-07-08T09:37:46 < R2COM> during winter
2021-07-08T09:38:06 < Xogium> now look who's trolling
2021-07-08T09:38:19 < jpa-> R2COM: yeah, that would be shitty; it would end up being a warzone between russia and USA for decades
2021-07-08T09:38:52 < R2COM> my grandpa tried attacking you long ago... he said it sucked
2021-07-08T09:39:16 < R2COM> grandpas' brother, great grandfather
2021-07-08T09:39:47 < jpa-> really? i thought the official position in russia was that finland attacked and they just defended ;)
2021-07-08T09:39:58 < R2COM> ahh
2021-07-08T09:40:56 < R2COM> rite
2021-07-08T09:41:15 < R2COM> it was soviet union, not russia tho
2021-07-08T09:41:32 < R2COM> i dont think russia is able to attack anyone nowadays
2021-07-08T09:41:47 < R2COM> perhaps some small shithole country only
2021-07-08T09:42:06 < jpa-> like ukraine
2021-07-08T09:42:16 < R2COM> even there they broke teeth
2021-07-08T09:42:38 < R2COM> massive attack on mariupol was stopped and unification on land with crimea didnt happen
2021-07-08T09:42:46 < jpa-> average russian is just pissed that they have to smuggle cheese from finland to get anything decent
2021-07-08T09:43:37 < jpa-> https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/1920/c6a1152bcfae410c8b4c6799c13704ca.jpg
2021-07-08T09:44:13 < jpa-> https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/978/2056375f3e614c5c930a01102c65ba02.jpg
2021-07-08T09:45:15 < R2COM> but european leaders so corrupt that they all got bribed by russia
2021-07-08T09:46:03 < R2COM> given this, sometimes i wonder why to even protect them with nato
2021-07-08T09:46:41 < R2COM> see jpa-... my taxes go to make sure that you wake up in a free country
2021-07-08T09:46:48 < R2COM> so you should thank me every time i join this chat
2021-07-08T09:47:14 < jpa-> do you think nato would do more for Finland than it did for Ukraine? after all we are not a member either
2021-07-08T09:49:29 < R2COM> for nato to do it, there must be unity. but you got faggot macron and old whore merkel, leaders of most important EU countries siding with russia and resisting or sabotaging every attempt to contain it...so given that... unfortunately, nato most likely will abandon you
2021-07-08T09:49:31 < R2COM> yeah...
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2021-07-08T09:50:57 < jpa-> nato will be a great excuse for USA to join the fun parts of a war, without risking their own civilians and without having to worry about the long-term consequences
2021-07-08T09:51:08 < R2COM> plus strange thing happened... liberal degenerates here been moaning about trump being soft with russia etc... and waited for biden to come out and "punish" russia... biden even gave that scanadil interview which looked strong where he called putin killer....BUT....later he *invited* him and ... guess that, all good and done...
2021-07-08T09:51:47 < R2COM> so its like...if you call him killer...what you discuss with killer
2021-07-08T09:51:56 < R2COM> total fiasco
2021-07-08T09:52:02 < jpa-> "hey, could you stop killing?"
2021-07-08T09:52:11 < R2COM> yeah right...
2021-07-08T09:52:35 < R2COM> btw russian internal propaganda already managed to successfully push the idea of diplomatic victory to own people
2021-07-08T09:52:36 < jpa-> or, "hey look, we have our own killing and other operations also, but we are more sneaky about it, could you be also?"
2021-07-08T09:52:53 < R2COM> nah
2021-07-08T09:53:42 < R2COM> and that recent Defender ships trip? ... its now 50/50 arguments...where russians say that they did warning shots and it went away... and EU/UK says that it didnt care
2021-07-08T09:54:05 < R2COM> so...whats the point? if you see warning shots (as they themselves admitted) then you must do your own warning shot
2021-07-08T09:54:12 < R2COM> and suppress them
2021-07-08T09:54:31 < R2COM> or fucking...just hit that Su24 flying not far from it
2021-07-08T09:54:44 < R2COM> but...that requires testoterones... 
2021-07-08T09:54:59 < Steffanx> I'm offended by the words R2COM and jpa-  
2021-07-08T09:55:57 < R2COM> oh are you
2021-07-08T09:56:37 < R2COM> Steffanx you are from nato country, you should thank me every time i join here
2021-07-08T09:58:12 < jpa-> but, R2COM is from a nato country also, and each member state does pay taxes; so will this become a thank-you fest? and do we need a notation for the amount of thank yous relative to the contributions and individual tax amounts?
2021-07-08T09:58:28 < R2COM> no way
2021-07-08T09:58:35 < R2COM> US kicks in much more do$h
2021-07-08T09:59:21 < R2COM> remove US from Nato and it looses its actuality
2021-07-08T10:00:57 < R2COM> oh ...aside from Turkey maybe which doesnt give shit and actually fights russia directly without even asking for help
2021-07-08T10:01:02 < jpa-> USA spends 2000 USD/person on nato, netherlands spends 6600 USD/person
2021-07-08T10:01:08 < R2COM> and btw...shooting its planes
2021-07-08T10:02:02 < R2COM> nah
2021-07-08T10:02:14 < ventyl> indian scammer is calling me
2021-07-08T10:02:59 < R2COM> that was so racist
2021-07-08T10:03:10 < R2COM> and it offended me so badly
2021-07-08T10:03:45 < R2COM> jpa- whats going on... 
2021-07-08T10:04:31 < R2COM> arent we now in that "stop asian hate" cancel culture thingy?
2021-07-08T10:05:02 < R2COM> or wait ...that only is for chinese right? darn... ok... sorry indians, not your time today
2021-07-08T10:34:17 < ventyl> 36 minutes and running
2021-07-08T10:34:19 < ventyl> kitboga style
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2021-07-08T10:50:43 < ventyl> they gave up :>
2021-07-08T10:57:08 < Steffanx> Awh
2021-07-08T11:02:52 < ventyl> compared to what I've seen on kitboga videos, these were pretty harsh and didn't hesitate to ask for internet banking login information
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2021-07-08T12:04:19 < Steffanx> Damn I should really look into this watchdog redets my NAS/server one in a while at around the same time at random days....
2021-07-08T12:04:27 < Steffanx> Resets.
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2021-07-08T12:22:32 < kakium69> your nas is rekt'd?
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2021-07-08T12:45:25 < Steffanx> Nah, Google says it's more common with supermicro boards and freenas
2021-07-08T12:45:32 < Steffanx> Or truenas as its called nowadays 
2021-07-08T12:52:30 < Steffanx> Is it time to get the potatoes out of the ground yet, kakium69 ?
2021-07-08T12:53:18 < ventyl> it is, ground is not frozen
2021-07-08T12:53:49 < zyp> Steffanx, it's common with supermicro boards because other boards don't have watchdogs? :p
2021-07-08T12:56:43 < Steffanx> Maybe.
2021-07-08T12:57:51 < Steffanx> Not true btw, asrock has them too. But perhaps it's more an OS issue 
2021-07-08T12:58:24 < Steffanx> In combination with (specific) supermicro boards
2021-07-08T13:09:31 < Steffanx> I also should look into my bad typos. Damn it's bad 😋
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2021-07-08T14:15:09 < mawk> you need psychotherapy for the typos Steffanx 
2021-07-08T14:21:50 < zyp> typotherapy
2021-07-08T14:22:11 < BrainDamage> type theory
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2021-07-08T14:49:35 < Steffanx> Maybe you can prescribe some drugs mawk. Maybe even home made?
2021-07-08T14:50:05 < ventyl> 9 out of 10 happiness managers would recommend cocaine
2021-07-08T14:51:53 < englishman> i recommend getting high https://i.imgur.com/DS4gKtn.jpg
2021-07-08T14:54:21 < BrainDamage> is that a passive glider or do you have a giant fan strapped to your back?
2021-07-08T14:54:26 < englishman> giant fan
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2021-07-08T14:55:12 < BrainDamage> great to dispose annoying guests too I'd wager
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2021-07-08T16:01:25 < Laurenceb> http is so slowwww
2021-07-08T16:01:35 < Laurenceb> fuck Tim Bernerds-Lee
2021-07-08T16:01:46 < Laurenceb> not that he actually ever did any real work
2021-07-08T16:02:00 < Laurenceb> >query local status page with wget = 60ms
2021-07-08T16:02:09 < Laurenceb> >query local status page with custom c code = 20ms
2021-07-08T16:02:12 < Laurenceb> still too slow
2021-07-08T16:03:19 < Streaker> how much of that is the http daemon?
2021-07-08T16:03:51 < specing> Laurenceb probably uses slowpatche
2021-07-08T16:04:45 < specing> wget reports 0s for retrieving index from local nginx
2021-07-08T16:04:57 < specing> no idea how to make it display nanoseconds
2021-07-08T16:04:58 < Laurenceb> this is onboard hyperloop
2021-07-08T16:05:15 < BrainDamage> Laurenceb: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/video-of-berners-lees-5-4m-nft-hints-another-exists-with-an-error/
2021-07-08T16:05:17 < Laurenceb> so Raspberry pi computer module -> switch -> WAN backhaul unit
2021-07-08T16:05:38 < Laurenceb> also passenger wifi now goes over same ethernet as traction controller backhaul
2021-07-08T16:05:41 < Laurenceb> what could go wrong...
2021-07-08T16:06:14 < BrainDamage> i can hit shit on my ethernet, through a wifi AND a vpn tunnel in less a millisecond
2021-07-08T16:06:16 < Laurenceb> BrainDamage: wtf the state of him
2021-07-08T16:06:20 < BrainDamage> you're doing it rong
2021-07-08T16:20:42 < bitmask> hmm, how ductile is lead sheet, if I line a cylinder with it can i bend the edge out to be perpendicular to the cylinder lining section to cover the top
2021-07-08T16:20:43 < bitmask> or would i have to snip the edge and fold over piece by piece, not creating full coverage
2021-07-08T16:24:52 < BrainDamage> the answer is ofc, it depends
2021-07-08T16:25:00 < bitmask> heh ok
2021-07-08T16:25:15 < bitmask> it will be delivered soon, i'll just have to play with it
2021-07-08T16:25:15 < BrainDamage> thickness vs bending radius
2021-07-08T16:25:30 < bitmask> 1/32"
2021-07-08T16:25:37 < bitmask> not sure the bending radius, not really important
2021-07-08T16:27:06 < BrainDamage> 1mm? that's plenty malleable
2021-07-08T16:27:24 < BrainDamage> will just be a bit stiffer than solder wire
2021-07-08T16:27:29 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-07-08T16:27:47 < bitmask> I figured thinner was easier and id just do two layers if I have enough sheeting
2021-07-08T16:27:50 < bitmask> though i may not
2021-07-08T16:28:45 < karlp> jpa-: what's the back story on that cheese smuggling? seems a risky business, for what can't be a huge margin?
2021-07-08T16:29:24 < bitmask> sounds like the canadian maple syrup heist
2021-07-08T16:30:16 < jpa-> karlp: it sells for 5 EUR/kg in Finland and 20 EUR/kg in Russia
2021-07-08T16:31:33 < jpa-> but i guess the sanctions for smuggling are in relation to the price of the goods also, so maybe it is not that big of a risk to smuggle some 100kg of cheese
2021-07-08T16:33:26 < Streaker> you can melt lead over your cooking range, so there's that too. You can cut a strip, wind it around the outside and fuse the inner and outer layers in the kitchen.
2021-07-08T16:33:47 < bitmask> can you solder to lead with regular flux?
2021-07-08T16:34:15 < Streaker> I've never done it, but I'm sure you can solder lead without flux even.
2021-07-08T16:34:38 < ventyl> yeah, lead melts and bonds to other lead happily
2021-07-08T16:34:41 < jpa-> you can probably weld lead, but with what would you solder it?
2021-07-08T16:35:00 < bitmask> cant you use regular leaded solder?
2021-07-08T16:35:07 < Streaker> with a hot air gun? 
2021-07-08T16:35:15 < bitmask> with a soldering iron?
2021-07-08T16:35:22 < bitmask> oh
2021-07-08T16:35:28 < bitmask> it would suck up heat too rapidly wouldnt it
2021-07-08T16:35:36 < Streaker> or in your kitchen
2021-07-08T16:35:39 < jpa-> hmm, maybe yeah; somehow i remembered that lead melting point would be lower than that
2021-07-08T16:35:53 < bitmask> its 327C
2021-07-08T16:35:55 < jpa-> yep
2021-07-08T16:36:53 < bitmask> i think i'll try hammering it flat first
2021-07-08T16:37:08 < jpa-> what are you making?
2021-07-08T16:37:26 < bitmask> a container to hold some slightly radioactive samples for my cloud chamber
2021-07-08T16:37:40 < bitmask> probably dont even need lead for what im using but id rather be safe
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2021-07-08T16:38:14 < jpa-> maybe just have two jars and fill the space in between with lead shots?
2021-07-08T16:38:59 < bitmask> the sheet is already arriving today, maybe im overthinking this anyway and it will be easy to do what i want. i'll just have to wait and see
2021-07-08T16:39:21 < BrainDamage> 1mm sheet will be pretty easy to work with
2021-07-08T16:39:32 < BrainDamage> you can bend it, solder it, weld it
2021-07-08T16:39:42 < BrainDamage> or even use it to sweeten your wine
2021-07-08T16:40:05 < Streaker> or wrap a dead body
2021-07-08T16:40:59 < bitmask> i was thinking a double walled cylinder with the lead innbetween so i dont have to worry about touching it, then have screw on caps for the top/bottom and just have the lead bent at 90º at the ends of both the caps and the cylinder so it gets pushed together when closed
2021-07-08T16:42:09 < bitmask> maybe print a press die to form the cap shpae
2021-07-08T16:42:42 < BrainDamage> I'd just take two food tin cans of different size and wrap it inbetween
2021-07-08T16:42:49 < BrainDamage> it doesn't have to be snug
2021-07-08T16:47:15 < karlp> just wrap in a plastic bag.  good enough for the queen and plutonium.... https://www.neimagazine.com/opinion/opinionthe-drama-of-plutonium
2021-07-08T16:53:42 < BrainDamage> plutonium is an alpha emitter, even your skin stops it
2021-07-08T16:57:01 < qyx> do you know of any linux app to realtime plot mqtt data?
2021-07-08T16:57:34 < BrainDamage> do you need a serious plot or just plotting stuff to debug?
2021-07-08T16:57:44 < BrainDamage> because mqtt explorer fits the latter
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2021-07-08T16:59:30 < qyx> debug only
2021-07-08T17:00:35 < qyx> qtf is AppImage
2021-07-08T17:01:53 < qyx> also snap, what drugs do cause this form of misbehaving
2021-07-08T17:02:17 < qyx> is it that hard to say, hey ubuntu man, here's your deb package
2021-07-08T17:02:21 < qyx> or ppa or whatever
2021-07-08T17:02:33 < qyx> no, install using appimage!
2021-07-08T17:02:37 < jpa-> appimage is quite fine IMO
2021-07-08T17:02:39 < jpa-> just run it
2021-07-08T17:03:02 < jpa-> snap has been crappy for me, and random out-of-distribution debs usually end up with unsatisfied dependencies
2021-07-08T17:03:04 < ventyl> unmaintained bugs welcome!!! \o/
2021-07-08T17:03:48 < qyx> npm, yarn
2021-07-08T17:03:55 < qyx> is this how 2021 looks like
2021-07-08T17:04:06  * qyx grumpy
2021-07-08T17:04:58 < BrainDamage> i'd be ok with the 300 package managers if only they'd have learned from existing ones
2021-07-08T17:05:17 < BrainDamage> instead they reinvent the wheel from 0, having to re-learn all the mistakes
2021-07-08T17:05:40 < ventyl> there are some principal limitations, you have to live with
2021-07-08T17:06:07 < BrainDamage> pip can't even upgrade all packages at oncee
2021-07-08T17:06:14 < ventyl> whose net result is that if your packages are built wrong, you may end up installing the whole gnome as a dependency for 400kB tool, just because it depends on gvfs
2021-07-08T17:06:47 < BrainDamage> I'm talking about language specific package managers
2021-07-08T17:07:33 < ventyl> i try to avoid using them
2021-07-08T17:07:45 < ventyl> not that big problem though
2021-07-08T17:07:53 < ventyl> many packages are in distro repos
2021-07-08T17:08:06 < ventyl> and if tool is written in JS, then it is as if it didn't exist at all
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2021-07-08T17:17:41 < bitmask> woot, humira finally here
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2021-07-08T17:57:00 < Sadale> You couldn't build those program without using their package managers tho. :(
2021-07-08T17:57:23 < Sadale> Yes, it's reproducible. Yes, it ensures that you're using the exact version of the library that the author is using. But at what cost?
2021-07-08T17:59:07 < ventyl> well, libraries should have sane versioning and stable API
2021-07-08T17:59:30 < ventyl> and fuck you if you learned how to versinon your lib at openssl
2021-07-08T17:59:43 < BrainDamage> some languages don't even have stable abi
2021-07-08T18:00:03 < ventyl> like?
2021-07-08T18:00:13 < BrainDamage> haskell/ghc
2021-07-08T18:00:25 < ventyl> that's one widely used language
2021-07-08T18:00:40 < BrainDamage> c++ also
2021-07-08T18:00:57 < BrainDamage> c++ gets stable abi only if exporting as c
2021-07-08T18:01:02 < ventyl> C++ / gcc ABI is stable for 5 major releases
2021-07-08T18:01:11 < ventyl> and it is mostly compatible with older ABI
2021-07-08T18:01:34 < ventyl> MSVC++ is binary compatible 2015 ->
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2021-07-08T18:45:09 < karlp> huh, mqtt explorer is pretty cute.
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2021-07-08T18:52:11 < karlp> turned the dishwasher on :https://bin.jvnv.net/file/sFTeY.png
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2021-07-08T19:07:11 < mawk> classical french music https://youtu.be/TvhNtRtp1To
2021-07-08T19:07:21 < mawk> it's really the pinnacle of human creation
2021-07-08T19:07:26 < mawk> such beauty brings tears to my eyes
2021-07-08T19:07:52 < mawk> you should listen Steffanx in order to relax a bit after the day
2021-07-08T19:08:49 < Steffanx> 2 seconds and im not do relaxed anymore 
2021-07-08T19:15:19 < t4nk_fn> 'do', as in doremifasollasi doooooo?
2021-07-08T19:17:30  * t4nk_fn starts a canon by himself: doremi_doremi__faaaaaa miiiii reeeeeee; doremi_doremi__faaaaaa miiiii reeeeeee; Dooooooooooooo...
2021-07-08T19:18:52 < t4nk_fn> sollll (boem boem), sooollll (boem boem), laaaasooolfaaaaa miiiiiii
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2021-07-08T19:20:51 < BrainDamage> t4nk_fn: https://i.imgur.com/wWhS1n7.jpg
2021-07-08T19:21:18 < BrainDamage> do the 17th
2021-07-08T19:21:30 < Steffanx> I have to keep my typo-fu high, t4nk_fn 
2021-07-08T19:31:20 < karlp> 2/2?
2021-07-08T19:32:35 < BrainDamage> it's a perfectly valid beat time, but it fell out of use
2021-07-08T19:32:58 < BrainDamage> that book tho is one that gets historically used in our music schools and retained it
2021-07-08T19:33:12 < BrainDamage> 'pozzoli' solfeges
2021-07-08T19:38:00 < t4nk_fn> though this is a piano score I'd say
2021-07-08T19:38:31 < BrainDamage> nope, it's a solfege book, it's using piano clefs tho
2021-07-08T19:38:34 < t4nk_fn> shoved under the nose of an unwilling toddler ;)
2021-07-08T19:38:57 < BrainDamage> in this case the piano clef is appropriate since the notes span both keys
2021-07-08T19:39:23 < t4nk_fn> yeah, I never like it though
2021-07-08T19:39:25 < BrainDamage> and yes, it's an ancient italian torture instrument for kids ...
2021-07-08T19:39:52 < t4nk_fn> but you get used to reading the bottom part and then adding a 3rd
2021-07-08T19:40:12 < t4nk_fn> if you're an idiot that is ;)
2021-07-08T19:40:27 < BrainDamage> i prefer it to have to count 5 -
2021-07-08T19:40:39 < mawk> clef
2021-07-08T19:51:10 < t4nk_fn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWDZGfEx3f0&t=94s  ( I was singing you this btw.)
2021-07-08T19:52:33 < t4nk_fn> their pronunciation makes me auto-spot-weld my buttocks though
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2021-07-08T20:20:06 < Steffanx> Lies t4nk_fn  it was the sound of music
2021-07-08T20:31:54 < t4nk_fn> I took a female to see that once
2021-07-08T20:32:14 < t4nk_fn> ... I got all emotional fcol, and couldn't hide it ;)
2021-07-08T20:52:22 < bitmask> damn, i dont think my cold plate is gonna get cold enough :(
2021-07-08T20:52:32 < mawk> stack more peltier bitmask 
2021-07-08T20:52:48 < mawk> each peltier only has to deal with the difference between its neighbors
2021-07-08T20:52:51 < mawk> I'm sure it can work
2021-07-08T20:53:01 < bitmask> i have another i can add, it just means redesigning a lot of shit
2021-07-08T20:53:13 < bitmask> they are dual stage peltiers
2021-07-08T20:53:42 < bitmask> I'm at -12C and its still going but i need at least -20
2021-07-08T20:54:50 < bitmask> -25 is the actual minimum temp but -20 with ice forming usually means it will get another 5C colder when dealing with alcohol
2021-07-08T20:55:38 < bitmask> oh then again its also hot as hell in my room right now
2021-07-08T20:55:51 < bitmask> 27C
2021-07-08T20:56:27 < BrainDamage> mawk: and each peltier has to pump the waste heat of the previous
2021-07-08T20:56:49 < mawk> ah
2021-07-08T20:56:59 < mawk> so it evens out BrainDamage ?
2021-07-08T20:57:07 < mawk> what if you stack bigger and bigger peltiers
2021-07-08T20:57:07 < BrainDamage> no, so it gets worse
2021-07-08T20:57:14 < mawk> in a pyramid shape
2021-07-08T20:57:32 < BrainDamage> that's the only way
2021-07-08T20:57:48 < BrainDamage> and you end up wasting hundreds of w to pump few thermal
2021-07-08T20:57:53 < bitmask> yea you have to power them with less and less power
2021-07-08T20:58:52 < mawk> that's not a problem bitmask is a rich man with unlimited power
2021-07-08T20:59:00 < bitmask> right...
2021-07-08T20:59:13 < bitmask> adding that second dual stage peltier would def be enough though
2021-07-08T20:59:29 < bitmask> not stacked but next to it
2021-07-08T21:01:12 < mawk> why don't we use iodine povidone for disinfecting that much BrainDamage 
2021-07-08T21:01:15 < mawk> it seems pretty cool
2021-07-08T21:01:15 < bitmask> oh shit, maybe its my thermocouple placement, my infrared therm is saying -28C
2021-07-08T21:01:33 < mawk> it sticks to the skin and doesn't evaporate, unlike alcohol or chlorhexidine
2021-07-08T21:01:51 < mawk> I bought thermocouples from amazon yesterday
2021-07-08T21:01:56 < mawk> type K something
2021-07-08T21:02:12 < mawk> to continue on my journey to make drugs
2021-07-08T21:02:32 < mawk> I bought some beakers and erlenmeyers as well, I also have stirring apparatus now
2021-07-08T21:02:43 < t4nk_fn> gotta keep that meth pot at 700degrees at all times
2021-07-08T21:02:50 < mawk> and a wide collection of syringes and needles but I had that already
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2021-07-08T21:08:53 < Laurenceb> codez https://pastebin.com/d84XAQb0
2021-07-08T21:10:04 < Laurenceb> 25ms runtime compared to 50ms for wget
2021-07-08T21:10:32 < Laurenceb> Lunix DNS cache takes 3ms, the code takes ~1ms, rest is the WAN server itself
2021-07-08T21:11:36 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/MWMopVN.png?1
2021-07-08T21:13:04 < mawk> with ssl Laurenceb ?
2021-07-08T21:13:04 < mawk> you only do HTTP/1.0 probably
2021-07-08T21:13:04 < mawk> tell wget to do http 1.0
2021-07-08T21:13:04 < mawk> for a fair comparison
2021-07-08T21:13:04 < Laurenceb> no ssl here, its all on private lan
2021-07-08T21:13:25 < Laurenceb> also I think the server is broken
2021-07-08T21:13:41 < mawk> probably not
2021-07-08T21:13:42 < Laurenceb> chunked transfer mode was making my head hurt, but wget has missing characters
2021-07-08T21:14:17 < Laurenceb> where the chunks join up
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2021-07-08T21:14:21  * mawk doubts
2021-07-08T21:14:38 < Laurenceb> the "server" is some embedded WAN board running rtos
2021-07-08T21:14:48 < mawk> ah
2021-07-08T21:14:52 < mawk> then maybe
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> I think its not following spec for chunked mode
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> sometimes it doesnt give full \r\n or something, my code seems to cope after a lot of swearing
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < mawk> well try your code on a known good server
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> yeah I will
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < mawk> apt install nginx
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < mawk> done
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> ah maybe I see it
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> sometimes there is a leading \r\n before the hex chunk size
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> aiui thats not part of the spec
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> I added code to strip it
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < mawk> I'll check in a bit
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> heh wget def has missing characters
2021-07-08T21:18:43 < Laurenceb> func{( is supposed to be function
2021-07-08T21:20:02 < kakium69> interesting
2021-07-08T21:20:33 < kakium69> I have always wondered why corporation could be a legal "person"
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2021-07-08T21:22:19 < kakium69> supreme court across the pond agreed some time in 19th century or so that actually corporation should have the rights of an person
2021-07-08T21:22:34 < kakium69> *a person
2021-07-08T21:24:01 < kakium69> using a law made for freed slaves
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2021-07-08T21:34:38 < BrainDamage> mawk: it's toxic in high doses
2021-07-08T21:34:47 < BrainDamage> and it stains like hell
2021-07-08T21:35:02 < BrainDamage> it's great for ambulances, less so for casual use
2021-07-08T21:35:48 < mawk> but it stays on the wound BrainDamage 
2021-07-08T21:35:56 < mawk> by opposition to alcohol/chlorhexidine
2021-07-08T21:35:59 < mawk> so it's like a huge advantage
2021-07-08T21:36:16 < mawk> it keeps acting for a very long time
2021-07-08T21:36:30 < mawk> unlike alcohol which needs to be present for a minute but evaporates under 30s
2021-07-08T21:36:58 < BrainDamage> again, great for medical use
2021-07-08T21:37:04 < BrainDamage> less for personal
2021-07-08T21:37:17 < mawk> yes
2021-07-08T21:37:23 < mawk> but I have a feeling it's not used that much in hospital setting either
2021-07-08T21:37:30 < mawk> maybe it's the toxicity
2021-07-08T21:37:45 < mawk> I got prescribed betadine when I had a urinary infection when I was 10
2021-07-08T21:37:46 < BrainDamage> here's the only thing allowed on an ambulance
2021-07-08T21:37:50 < mawk> I got told to dip my manhood in it
2021-07-08T21:38:01 < mawk> ah I see, weird
2021-07-08T21:38:08 < mawk> so not even alcohol
2021-07-08T21:38:38 < mawk> I read that some opportunistic bacteria can live in iodine povidone, so it needs to be sterile when you use it in medical setting
2021-07-08T21:38:40 < mawk> lol
2021-07-08T21:38:46 < mawk> bacteria living in disinfectant
2021-07-08T21:39:38 < mawk> the US law is crazy kakium69 don't listen to it
2021-07-08T21:39:48 < mawk> look at french law for instance, corporations are "legal persons" too
2021-07-08T21:40:30 < mawk> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personne_morale_en_droit_fran%C3%A7ais
2021-07-08T21:40:34 < mawk> use google translate
2021-07-08T21:42:15 < mawk> kakium69: « Observation of this reality shows that the will of a group of people, for example, is something other than the sum of the individual wills of its members. A human group, if it attains a certain degree of organization which enables it to express a will and act accordingly, possesses by itself a legal personality. »
2021-07-08T21:42:17 < mawk> that's the relevant bit
2021-07-08T21:43:24 < kakium69> yes
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2021-07-08T21:50:13 < kakium69> it makes sense
2021-07-08T21:50:38 < kakium69> funny part is how it came to be through new law made for freed slaves
2021-07-08T22:10:18 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQYsk-8dWg mawk: the documentary
2021-07-08T22:10:34 < kakium69> maybe 15years old or so
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2021-07-08T22:45:58 < mawk> thanks
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2021-07-09T01:00:49 < jadew> the benefit of having corporations that are seen as persons is that the people behind it are protected from absolute failure
2021-07-09T01:01:15 < jadew> for example, if the company goes bankrupt, your creditors don't come after you, to take your house, car and clothes on your back
2021-07-09T01:02:36 < kakium69> some countries have a personal bankrupcy
2021-07-09T01:03:06 < jadew> yeah, they wanted to introduce that in here too, but the IMF was against it
2021-07-09T01:04:36 < jadew> they want slaves
2021-07-09T01:05:33 < kakium69> in 1991 or so a lot of business went under after USSR fell
2021-07-09T01:06:41 < kakium69> significant part of people who happen to have debt or liability in businesses are still in debt and - even more than at the begining
2021-07-09T01:06:53 < aandrew> jadew: wait, you don't have the corporate "veil" in .ro?
2021-07-09T01:07:15 < aandrew> if your corporation does something bad the corp is liquidated and then they come after the board as well?
2021-07-09T01:07:17 < jadew> aandrew, we do, I was talking about personal bankruptcy - we don't have that
2021-07-09T01:07:24 < aandrew> ahh
2021-07-09T01:07:47 < jadew> so if you get a bad loan, you're stuck with it even if you have $0 on your name
2021-07-09T01:08:04 < jadew> which tbh, it makes sense
2021-07-09T01:08:07 < aandrew> right
2021-07-09T01:08:19 < aandrew> what about inheritance - can you inherit your parent's/sibling's debt?
2021-07-09T01:08:26 < jadew> nope
2021-07-09T01:08:48 < aandrew> nice
2021-07-09T01:09:01 < aandrew> did I blog about my adventures with Hakko T12 handpieces?
2021-07-09T01:09:13 < kakium69> we all live in civilized countries aandrew
2021-07-09T01:09:28 < aandrew> I have one of those ~$50 ksger soldering stations, and it's a nice system, but I couldn't figure out why I hated soldering with it
2021-07-09T01:09:41 < aandrew> it's becuase the handle that comes with it has you hold the iron 75mm from the tip
2021-07-09T01:09:45 < aandrew> so it's like trying to solder with chopsticks
2021-07-09T01:09:55 < jadew> yeah, I hate that about it too
2021-07-09T01:10:09 < aandrew> I found compatible handles that bring that down to a way more reasonable 42mm, which is pretty close to the metcal iron I have which is 35mm
2021-07-09T01:10:25 < jadew> link?
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2021-07-09T01:10:41 < fenugrec> hakko 936 ftw
2021-07-09T01:10:48 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000116326529.html
2021-07-09T01:10:49 < fenugrec> + oldschool street cred
2021-07-09T01:11:00 < jadew> ah, that's the one I have
2021-07-09T01:11:13 < aandrew> there are a few differnet handles with grips between 42 and 75mm
2021-07-09T01:11:22 < aandrew> I looked at the 936
2021-07-09T01:11:26 < jadew> maybe it's not the lengh of the tip that bothers me, let me compare it with my hakko
2021-07-09T01:11:52 < aandrew> the 936 is too long
2021-07-09T01:11:56 < aandrew> grip-to-tip I mean
2021-07-09T01:12:25 < jadew> yep, the hakko is much longer in that regard
2021-07-09T01:12:27 < fenugrec> dunno, I've had my 936 since ~ 2004. Always preferred it over others I tried
2021-07-09T01:12:34 < jadew> but this one has a longer back
2021-07-09T01:12:42 < fenugrec> I have the black version, not sure if it's the same handle on newer models
2021-07-09T01:12:53 < aandrew> I was also thinking I could take a cylinder of stainless steel maybe 15cm long, put a 5mm hole in it and turn it down to 10-15mm dia. then take wood or something with 15mm hole and turn that to the outer diameter I want to hold to bring it even closer to 35mm
2021-07-09T01:12:55 < jadew> I have an fx 888
2021-07-09T01:13:15 < jadew> on the ksger I like the low profile and the easily replaceable tips
2021-07-09T01:13:20 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32965564853.html
2021-07-09T01:13:35 < aandrew> I have the top one right now; that's like 75mm tip-to-grip.  The one below it is 42
2021-07-09T01:14:07 < jadew> the top one looks like classic hakko handle
2021-07-09T01:14:20 < aandrew> jadew: yes, it is awful
2021-07-09T01:14:22 < aandrew> that's what I have now
2021-07-09T01:16:11 < fenugrec> I'll admit I sometimes hold the 907 handle a bit past the rubberized 'grip' part
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2021-07-09T01:18:07 < aandrew> https://www.newark.com/metcal/mx-rm6e/long-reach-solder-handle-for-mx/dp/41B5524 is the handle on my ancient metcal PS2 
2021-07-09T01:18:23 < aandrew> I love it, tip is literally 35mm from where I grip at the end of the handle
2021-07-09T01:18:51 < jadew> tips looks expensive
2021-07-09T01:19:02 < jadew> you get 10 KSGER tips for that money
2021-07-09T01:19:17 < aandrew> jadew: sure, but you don't change them more than once every 5 years
2021-07-09T01:19:37 < aandrew> I have yet to use the ksger enough to see how fast those tips wear
2021-07-09T01:19:45 < aandrew> but that metcal is second to none in my opinion
2021-07-09T01:20:08 < aandrew> pace, weller, hakko (real hakko)... none match the metcal
2021-07-09T01:20:40 < jadew> haven't had the pleasure of using one
2021-07-09T01:20:56 < aandrew> like most of my equipment, the metcal was used when I bought it
2021-07-09T01:21:10 < aandrew> there are some DIY power units too which are interesting
2021-07-09T01:21:13 < aandrew> haven't ever tried one
2021-07-09T01:21:22 < aandrew> https://hackaday.com/2019/06/16/homemade-magic-makes-the-metcal-go/
2021-07-09T01:24:50 < jadew> eh, for now I don't need another station
2021-07-09T01:25:01 < jadew> I think I'll go JBC next
2021-07-09T01:25:30 < jadew> I think I'd prefer being able to use the same tip at multiple temperatures
2021-07-09T01:26:10 < kakium69> JBC is for soldering irons what Mercedes is for cars
2021-07-09T01:26:31 < fenugrec> expensive ugly shit for older rich people ?
2021-07-09T01:26:39 < kakium69> hmm
2021-07-09T01:27:00 < jadew> fenugrec, lol
2021-07-09T01:27:01 < kakium69> sure
2021-07-09T01:27:13 < jadew> comfy, high quality, reliable too
2021-07-09T01:27:16 < fenugrec> heh
2021-07-09T01:27:51 < jadew> any ideas on how not to scorch a board with a hot plate?
2021-07-09T01:28:15 < jadew> can you actually melt lead free solder on one without destroying the FR4?
2021-07-09T01:28:25 < aandrew> heh I didn't particularly like the JBC either
2021-07-09T01:28:27 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-09T01:28:40 < jadew> aandrew, why?
2021-07-09T01:28:44 < jadew> kakium69, how?
2021-07-09T01:28:45 < aandrew> multiple temps hasn't ever been an issue for me. I use leaded but lead free temps
2021-07-09T01:29:02 < aandrew> jadew: JBC had some neat stuff but it didn't "feel" right for me
2021-07-09T01:29:10 < aandrew> was strictly personal preference, not a technical failing
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2021-07-09T01:29:37 < jadew> tbh, I like the interface on the hakko fx-888 - one knob
2021-07-09T01:29:49 < jadew> if they can make them like that, but really powerful and fast
2021-07-09T01:29:52 < jadew> I'd but that
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2021-07-09T01:30:45 < jadew> kakium69, what temperature should I set the hot plate to?
2021-07-09T01:31:14 < jadew> at 240 °C it still seems like I have to add additional heat for bigger parts, like shielding cans
2021-07-09T01:31:23 < kakium69> ah
2021-07-09T01:31:27 < kakium69> go to 300
2021-07-09T01:31:35 < kakium69> try it
2021-07-09T01:31:41 < jadew> at 300 it destroys the FR4
2021-07-09T01:31:47 < jadew> it starts to bubble
2021-07-09T01:31:51 < kakium69> then it's not possible
2021-07-09T01:31:54 < fenugrec> maybe insulate the top of the board ? it can only transfer heat through conduction, and you gets lots of convective losses on the top
2021-07-09T01:32:15 < jadew> how would I work on it afterwards?
2021-07-09T01:32:23 < kakium69> radiated heat
2021-07-09T01:33:20 < jadew> I'm wondering if 300 °C but while keeping the board above the hotplate, without touching it
2021-07-09T01:33:26 < jadew> maybe something like that would work
2021-07-09T01:35:26 < BrainDamage> jadew: use the plate only as preheater, then spot heat using hot air
2021-07-09T01:36:00 < BrainDamage> the plate will ensure a uniform nvironment with low lossess, and the thermal jump for hot air will not be high
2021-07-09T01:36:12 < kakium69> a little comparison: fx-888 is 70w input
2021-07-09T01:36:30 < kakium69> jbc can output 130w to cardridge
2021-07-09T01:36:45 < BrainDamage> and spot heating will let you control the heat over the board, because large components have larger heat capacities etc
2021-07-09T01:36:49 < BrainDamage> so you can adjust by eye
2021-07-09T01:38:28 < jadew> BrainDamage, yeah, that works, but I'm still having issues with things like shielding cans
2021-07-09T01:38:53 < BrainDamage> you can always use different alloys
2021-07-09T01:38:58 < jadew> I wonder what would happen if I placed the shielding can on the hot plate
2021-07-09T01:39:10 < BrainDamage> with a lower temp one for larger stuff
2021-07-09T01:39:12 < jadew> that's not a bad idea
2021-07-09T01:39:21 < jadew> I'll look into that
2021-07-09T01:39:36 < BrainDamage> it's a handy trick for two sided pcb
2021-07-09T01:39:58 < BrainDamage> you can flip the board and bake the other side with low temp without needing glue
2021-07-09T01:40:49 < jadew> I'll try to remove the shielding can by placing it on the hot plate directly
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2021-07-09T01:49:03 < aandrew> yeah I know Rossman loves JBC because it can really push heat into those heavy copper planes
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2021-07-09T03:06:58 < karlp> jadew: like BD said, just use it as a pre-heater, like it's advertised.  walking around the top surface with hot air when it's all on teh hot plate is super chil. way easier than trying to hot air a whole board frrom scratch
2021-07-09T03:11:17 < aandrew> yeah I have a little quartz hotplate I use to preheat boards
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2021-07-09T08:30:16 < qyx> the first step towards success when persuading a LTE modem to connect is to use an antenna other than the SMA connector itself
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2021-07-09T15:54:31 < t4nk_fn> wellwell... those chinese aren't wasting any time... products on ali are 1. driven up in price by a loooong way and 2. then there's the extra vat on top
2021-07-09T15:54:36 < t4nk_fn> byebye ali!
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2021-07-09T16:35:42 < Steffanx> Bye bye t4nk_fn 
2021-07-09T16:45:54 < t4nk_fn> that was totally unexpected ;)
2021-07-09T16:46:15 < t4nk_fn> I'll call you 'snappy' in the future
2021-07-09T16:46:25 < t4nk_fn> Snappyx
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2021-07-09T16:56:30 < benishor> t4nk_fn: if you go byebye ali, where're you gonna go to?
2021-07-09T16:58:51 < t4nk_fn> yeah, well... I was on amazon just now, and it (seems as if) that some stuff is getting cheaper on there
2021-07-09T16:59:12 < t4nk_fn> when I was looking for an all metal hotend for a 3d printer for example
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2021-07-09T17:00:43 < t4nk_fn> I think it may be a bit cheaper to buy it off there now, plus it gets delivered on time
2021-07-09T17:02:29 < t4nk_fn> on ali: stm32f407vet6 board I bought before for 9euro's, alistandard shipping included... now costs you 20euros
2021-07-09T17:22:37 < Steffanx> Oh but that's stm32unobtanium 
2021-07-09T17:22:58 < Steffanx> Can't blame them for raising the prices
2021-07-09T17:27:18 < englishman> >using stm32 in 2021
2021-07-09T17:28:40 < GenTooMan> hmm I understand there are parts available now. though it does amaze me how the automotive industry started this disastrous cascade affect by going on assumption.
2021-07-09T17:29:10 < t4nk_fn> lol
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2021-07-09T17:29:22 < t4nk_fn> yeah, disasters all around
2021-07-09T17:30:22 < t4nk_fn> as long as the masses fall for it... ca-ching.
2021-07-09T17:32:56 < GenTooMan> hmm as per usual it was avoidable, they assumed x and didn't actually recognize that over reacting (like over steering a car) is dangerous.
2021-07-09T17:43:12 < GenTooMan> it however is easy to say that now but I wasn't their so I've no idea what information they based their choices on.
2021-07-09T17:49:55 < BrainDamage> the shared resource is the fab time, they cancelled orders so fabs allocated time slots to other things
2021-07-09T17:50:41 < BrainDamage> I'd guess they ( car manifacturers ) just noticed that the whole economy was winding down and espected to be affected the same
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2021-07-09T18:14:25 < fenugrec> so what was the fab time allocated to
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2021-07-09T18:25:00 < GenTooMan> likely GPU's
2021-07-09T18:27:02 < bitmask> its starting to take shape! I wonder if I should have the high voltage grid closer to the cold plate though
2021-07-09T18:27:03 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/H5sCkYF.jpg?2
2021-07-09T18:34:12 < benishor> bitmask: what are you building there? clearly a tube but what's the target?
2021-07-09T18:39:14 < aandrew> bitmask: are you making a tube?
2021-07-09T18:39:31 < jpa-> t4nk_fn: there are also very interesting interpretations of import rules: https://bbs.io-tech.fi/attachments/1625665527864-png.639425/
2021-07-09T18:39:50 < bitmask> cloud chamber
2021-07-09T18:40:32 < bitmask> guess it does look like a tube, never thought about that
2021-07-09T18:41:49 < bitmask> on a side note, playing with lead is fun
2021-07-09T18:42:02 < bitmask> i feel like a metal worker even though its real easy to form
2021-07-09T18:45:17 < GenTooMan> so you have a particle accelerator you are also building for the cloud chamber?
2021-07-09T18:46:25 < mawk> I just got vaxxinated Steffanx 
2021-07-09T18:46:28 < mawk> are you proud of me?
2021-07-09T18:46:55 < bitmask> GenTooMan nah i just bought some radioactive sources
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2021-07-09T18:49:25 < mawk> are you making a dirty bomb bitmask 
2021-07-09T18:50:14 < bitmask> riiight
2021-07-09T18:53:20 < Steffanx> What 5G shot did you get, mawk?
2021-07-09T18:53:41 < Steffanx> Arent you wappie mawk?
2021-07-09T18:53:46 < fenugrec> 5G.EXE
2021-07-09T18:54:23 < mawk> pfizerre Steffanx 
2021-07-09T18:54:35 < fenugrec> reminds me of a car somewhere in the area, with license plate "W32 EXE"...
2021-07-09T18:54:53 < Steffanx> I expected you to be wappie, like baudet mawk
2021-07-09T18:56:06 < mawk> what's wappie Steffanx 
2021-07-09T18:57:01 < Steffanx> https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wappie#:~:text=Wappie%20is%20een%20pejoratief%20begrip,een%20dwaalgeest%20of%20'gekkie'.
2021-07-09T18:58:53 < Steffanx> That's what we call the antivaxxers with bad arguments and covid is a myth sayers, mawk.
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2021-07-09T19:08:35 < mawk> why would I be wappie Steffanx 
2021-07-09T19:09:16 < mawk> I'm a man of science
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2021-07-09T19:54:50 < Steffanx> Lol. So serious today, mawk
2021-07-09T20:03:49 < t4nk_fn> yeah, jpa-, I suspect those are the same stores flooding amazon atm... nice to keep an eye on, but I'm not gonna risk it yet ;)
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2021-07-09T20:12:45 < Laurenceb> do I have to use {0} to init as zero or does {} work ok?
2021-07-09T20:12:55 < Laurenceb>  (on lunix not stm32)
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2021-07-09T20:29:55 < Laurenceb> wt flunix
2021-07-09T20:29:58 < Laurenceb> https://linux.die.net/man/7/socket
2021-07-09T20:30:13 < Laurenceb> > If the timeout is set to zero (the default) then the operation will never timeout.
2021-07-09T20:30:15 < Laurenceb> wuttttt
2021-07-09T20:30:50 < Laurenceb> surely that should be the case with a negative argument, with zero argument giving instant timeout (i.e. error if no data cached)
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2021-07-09T20:57:13 < jadew> do you guys remember Erika? https://images.7news.com.au/publication/C-1386777/626f092208e1f233db81a99638b5293afe17afea-16x9-x0y0w1304h734.jpg
2021-07-09T20:57:16 < jadew> time is a bitch
2021-07-09T20:58:01 < jadew> if you don't remember her from baywatch, look up the playboy issue, you'll surely recognize her in there
2021-07-09T21:00:40 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm starting to doubt covid was a huge threat too
2021-07-09T21:00:57 < specing> boobwatch
2021-07-09T21:00:59 < jadew> mainly because things I was expecting to happen, didn't happen
2021-07-09T21:01:43 < Laurenceb> she looks ugly in both photos
2021-07-09T21:04:06 < jadew> you wouldn't say no to either tho
2021-07-09T21:04:32 < specing> I would
2021-07-09T21:08:07 < jadew> specing, you want your first time to be special?
2021-07-09T21:17:54 < Steffanx> but you were maybe a bit over the top jadew. i remember this.
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < jadew> Steffanx, I was just the right amount of scared I think, considering we were looking at 1 in 20 people to drop dead in a year or two
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < Steffanx> we were?
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < jadew> the whole thing was greatly exaggerated tho, and we've remained with that mindset
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < jadew> yeah... 5% mortality rate - remember?
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < Steffanx> no
2021-07-09T21:17:59 < jadew> that's what it started with
2021-07-09T21:18:00 < jadew> then it became murky, then the figures never really seemed to show up
2021-07-09T21:18:01 < jadew> and now we know it's slightly worse than the regular flu, maybe some flu strains were even worse than this
2021-07-09T21:18:01 < jadew> but we've remained with the measures and the paranoia
2021-07-09T21:18:10 < jadew> and to make matters worse, more people than I expected are anti-vaxxers, so instead of ending this shit, we'll have to live with it forever, because it was allowed to mutate
2021-07-09T21:18:11 < jadew> the whole thing was a complete waste of time and resources
2021-07-09T21:18:11 < jadew> and of lives, because many people died as a result
2021-07-09T21:20:16 < Steffanx> did you just go from all paranoid to "oh it was nothing"  -_-
2021-07-09T21:20:22 < bitmask> damn its hot, im soaking wet
2021-07-09T21:20:33 < Steffanx> yes its hot
2021-07-09T21:20:35 < jpa-> jadew: you just calculated that 5% mortality rate in a stupid way, disregarding the inaccuracies in the numbers you were using
2021-07-09T21:20:35 < Steffanx> you are hot
2021-07-09T21:20:45 < bitmask> you aren't too bad yourself
2021-07-09T21:21:05 < jadew> jpa-, that's what was reported at first and what started the hysteria
2021-07-09T21:21:12 < jadew> my numbers were always lower, but still worrying
2021-07-09T21:21:15 < Steffanx> 23.4 C, humidity 62%. bitmask
2021-07-09T21:21:35 < jadew> 29.1, 62%
2021-07-09T21:21:44 < bitmask> 29C humidity 60%
2021-07-09T21:22:02 < Steffanx> everything above 20C is hot enough
2021-07-09T21:22:19 < jadew> we haven't had hot water in a week
2021-07-09T21:22:29 < bitmask> just leave it outside
2021-07-09T21:22:41 < jadew> we just have cold showers
2021-07-09T21:22:47 < jadew> they grow on you after a while
2021-07-09T21:23:06 < bitmask> luke warm maybe, i cant take a cold shower
2021-07-09T21:23:18 < Steffanx> no airconditioning?
2021-07-09T21:23:37 < bitmask> who me? I was just in the attic trying to organize my shit, no AC up there
2021-07-09T21:23:39 < jadew> we have AC, I just didn't turn it on
2021-07-09T21:23:47 < bitmask> oh
2021-07-09T21:23:51 < bitmask> no one cares about bitmask
2021-07-09T21:24:02 < jadew> I can tolerate up to 33 C or so
2021-07-09T21:24:26 < Steffanx> No AC here. so i die when its 25+ when i have to sleep
2021-07-09T21:24:29 < jadew> bitmask, we care, we just don't show it
2021-07-09T21:24:32 < bitmask> heh
2021-07-09T21:24:55 < jadew> Steffanx, sleep during the night :)
2021-07-09T21:25:05 < Steffanx> but the heat doesnt go out easily
2021-07-09T21:25:46 < jadew> also, stay naked
2021-07-09T21:25:56 < Steffanx> doesnt help
2021-07-09T21:26:48 < bitmask> check out the start of my lid for the lead lined container
2021-07-09T21:26:49 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/CkagH8B.jpg
2021-07-09T21:28:18 < jadew> lead lined container? what are you storing radioactive stuff?
2021-07-09T21:28:24 < bitmask> yea
2021-07-09T21:28:30 < bitmask> samples for my cloud chamber
2021-07-09T21:28:33 < bitmask> nothing really hot
2021-07-09T21:28:39 < bitmask> very mild stuffs
2021-07-09T21:28:51 < jadew> what's a cloud chamber?
2021-07-09T21:29:05 < bitmask> we havent talked about it?
2021-07-09T21:29:14 < jadew> not with me
2021-07-09T21:29:24 < bitmask> its a way to visualize radiation
2021-07-09T21:29:42 < jadew> sounds cool, it lights up or something?
2021-07-09T21:30:01 < bitmask> you use a peltier to get to -25C or lower and super saturated alcohol vapor over it, alpha and beta particles show up as trails in the vapor
2021-07-09T21:30:18 < jadew> neat
2021-07-09T21:30:27 < jadew> got pictures of that working?
2021-07-09T21:30:41 < bitmask> not there yet, close though
2021-07-09T21:30:47 < bitmask> heres some pics of my setup so far though
2021-07-09T21:30:48 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/MWMopVN.png?1
2021-07-09T21:30:56 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/H5sCkYF.jpg?2
2021-07-09T21:31:10 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/76V7ppj.png
2021-07-09T21:31:15 < jpa-> -25C with peltier sounds difficult to get
2021-07-09T21:31:40 < jadew> maybe with very good heatsinking?
2021-07-09T21:31:45 < jadew> water cooled?
2021-07-09T21:31:58 < bitmask> i tested it yesterday and got to -28C even in my hot ass room
2021-07-09T21:32:02 < bitmask> yea water cooled
2021-07-09T21:32:19 < bitmask> and its a stacked peltier with two layers
2021-07-09T21:32:38 < bitmask> rated for 70ºC differential
2021-07-09T21:33:25 < bitmask> and it should get colder when using alcohol vapor because apparently forming ice crystals lowers efficiency
2021-07-09T21:33:38 < bitmask> so i think i'll be good
2021-07-09T21:34:15 < bitmask> i do have a second peltier if need be, i just hope i dont need it, redesigning everything would be a bitch
2021-07-09T21:50:25 < Steffanx> Keeps you of the streets, bitmask
2021-07-09T21:59:15 < bitmask>  i am the streets yo
2021-07-09T21:59:56 < BrainDamage> bitmask: do you have an ir thermometer?
2021-07-09T22:00:03 < bitmask> i do
2021-07-09T22:00:25 < BrainDamage> spray some oil on the grids
2021-07-09T22:00:33 < BrainDamage> that'll make them ir opaque
2021-07-09T22:00:39 < BrainDamage> then measure the temps
2021-07-09T22:01:43 < bitmask> not sure i follow? the trails form right on the cold plate, not the grids
2021-07-09T22:02:56 < bitmask> the top grid is just to hold the alcohol soaked sponge, the lower one creates an electrical field between it and the cold plate but nothing happens at the grid
2021-07-09T22:05:17 < BrainDamage> ah, i thought you had the e-field between the grids
2021-07-09T22:05:18 < BrainDamage> nvm then
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--- Day changed Sat Jul 10 2021
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2021-07-10T01:01:51 < upgrdman> anyone know of a mouse with a smooth scroll wheel (no notches) that is ALSO high-resolution (not line-by-line scrolling) AND low latency (500-1000 reports/sec) ?
2021-07-10T01:02:19 < upgrdman> logitech m720 etc is great but only 125 reports per second. i guess logitech only does >125 for their gamer stuff :/
2021-07-10T01:17:14 < englishman> upgrdman: idk about all the specs but the Logitech MX anywhere 3 has this awesome customizable mouse wheel. and there's a desktop version of it
2021-07-10T01:17:47 < upgrdman> englishman, i was looking at it, but iirc its only 125hz
2021-07-10T01:17:58 < englishman> MX master 3
2021-07-10T01:18:12 < englishman> idk works on my machine
2021-07-10T01:18:19 < englishman> my monitor is 60 hz
2021-07-10T01:18:51 < upgrdman> what do you mean by "desktop version" ? aren't all mice for desktops
2021-07-10T01:19:04 < englishman> MX anywhere 3 is made to be portable
2021-07-10T01:19:21 < upgrdman> o
2021-07-10T01:19:38 < englishman> does the report rate make that much of a difference
2021-07-10T01:19:59 < englishman> maybe you should make your own ps/2 mouse
2021-07-10T01:20:03 < upgrdman> lol
2021-07-10T01:20:23 < upgrdman> its not critical, but i'd lile at least 2x monitor refresh rate, and i'll soon by upgrd'ing to 144hz
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2021-07-10T02:40:03 < fenugrec> daaamn. Wasted many many hours troubleshooting, to find that the contactor I'm using has a built-in snubber/suppressor with probably a TVS or something. Cool, but the thing driving it was doing some PWM straight from a 70V rail (to feed the 24V coil), and failing in overcurrent every time. Thought they had a proper buck regulator in there, but no.
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2021-07-10T02:52:55 < Laurenceb> supppp
2021-07-10T02:53:17 < Laurenceb> anyone know if there is a way to query Lunix socket queue length?
2021-07-10T02:53:29 < Laurenceb> as in current stack bytes or transactions or whatever
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2021-07-10T03:41:08 < machinehum> Does anyone know what this is called? https://old.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/nwfqet/what_are_these_guys_called_the_th_metal_guys_that/
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2021-07-10T04:42:44 < jadew> https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325418
2021-07-10T04:42:54 < jadew> Masturbation does not seem to have any long-lasting effects on testosterone levels.
2021-07-10T04:43:21 < jadew> so... if you do it often enough, then you get the short term effects in the long term?
2021-07-10T04:44:03 < jadew> "One reason for this is that it is difficult for scientists in a laboratory to recreate an environment in which people would typically masturbate."
2021-07-10T04:44:36 < jadew> since and its challenges
2021-07-10T04:45:31 < jadew> LMFAO, this article is full of gems: "The researchers compared the salivary testosterone levels in men who participated in sexual activity with those in men who only observed."
2021-07-10T04:47:51 < aandrew> jadew: lol to all that
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2021-07-10T04:50:16 < jadew> the data is unclear tho
2021-07-10T04:50:49 < jadew> it seems to suggest that testosterone levels increase both after sex and during abstinence
2021-07-10T04:51:08 < jadew> they're like stocks, they only go up
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2021-07-10T13:19:54 < Laurenceb> https://techpeterburg.wixsite.com/mysite/post/biological-radio-communication-kazhinsky
2021-07-10T13:20:18 < Laurenceb> old school crackpottery
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2021-07-10T13:25:38 < Laurenceb> emdrive/qanon 0.1 alpha version
2021-07-10T13:26:06 < Laurenceb> I just realised
2021-07-10T13:26:33 < Laurenceb> when people talk about aliens, they are actually seeing Q himself on his emdrive powered sky chariot
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2021-07-10T15:13:41 < Laurenceb> anyone home?
2021-07-10T15:13:59  * Laurenceb has a weird c bug on lunix
2021-07-10T15:14:18 < Laurenceb> #0  0x00011348 in can_get (sock=0, can_id=1,
2021-07-10T15:14:18 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-10T15:14:19 < Laurenceb>     queue=0x1 <error: Cannot access memory at address 0x1>, frame=0x5,
2021-07-10T15:14:19 < Laurenceb>     last_tv=0xbefff468) at can_soft_ack.c:255
2021-07-10T15:14:31 < Laurenceb> I have a function being passed trash 
2021-07-10T15:15:40 < Laurenceb> dunno wtf could cause this
2021-07-10T15:15:44 < Laurenceb> stack overwritten?
2021-07-10T15:16:21 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/z8vULvVN
2021-07-10T15:16:55 < Laurenceb> line 247 called at 144 with junk arguments
2021-07-10T15:27:00 < Laurenceb> argg gdb isnt even working
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2021-07-10T15:42:36 < Steffanx> Sometimes running it using valgrind helps with memory issues
2021-07-10T15:50:27 < Laurenceb> found it, was passing pointer to a pointer
2021-07-10T15:50:34 < Laurenceb> gcc should have given a warning for that
2021-07-10T15:52:39 < Steffanx> You have warnings disabled
2021-07-10T16:11:34 < BrainDamage> https://www.eejournal.com/article/wait-what-mips-becomes-risc-v/
2021-07-10T16:19:24 < fenugrec> RISC is gonna change everything
2021-07-10T16:20:11 < Laurenceb> non nonnnnnoononono
2021-07-10T16:20:16 < Laurenceb> Transputer is the future
2021-07-10T16:20:42 < Laurenceb> in current year that sounds like a computer made completely by trannies
2021-07-10T16:21:47 < Laurenceb> xmos made by the same idiots aiui
2021-07-10T16:22:03 < Laurenceb> they dont understand the power of dedicated hardware peripherals and dma
2021-07-10T17:03:16 < GenTooMan> that's a blast from the past
2021-07-10T17:39:12 < GenTooMan> Interesting switching to R5 may be the only way the company can survive. The problem with the MIPS arch was that due to some <censored> individuals it became irrelevant,
2021-07-10T17:39:14 < fenugrec> anyone heard of "artery mcu AT32F415" ? apparently some F105 clone / pin-compat... ds certainly looks similar
2021-07-10T17:39:35  * GenTooMan looks it up.
2021-07-10T17:40:06 < fenugrec> apparently some stm32 projects are trying to port to that while the shortage lasts
2021-07-10T17:40:40 < PaulFertser> fenugrec: people report using OpenOCD with a similar part: https://github.com/cloidnerux/hoverboard-firmware-hack
2021-07-10T17:41:25 < fenugrec> PaulFertser, thanks for the info. Not sure where one would even buy an at32 part
2021-07-10T17:42:11 < fenugrec> seems to have some flavor of bxcan, but usb-otg
2021-07-10T17:44:25 < PaulFertser> The product page doesn't look bad https://www.arterytek.com/en/product/AT32F403A.jsp
2021-07-10T17:44:51 < englishman> probably better availability than ST too
2021-07-10T17:45:31 < GenTooMan> It may be a in China only part. As I have only found a data sheet in Simplified CN https://easyeda.com/component/fd4b03ff6e4b447a92e99ed1340ee221
2021-07-10T17:45:54 < PaulFertser> Looks like they sell directly.
2021-07-10T17:46:07 < PaulFertser> https://www.arterytek.com/about/en/contactUs why would they have it in English if it was internal?
2021-07-10T17:50:37 < GenTooMan> You would be amazed let me put it this way. In any case maybe? The SRAM is a lot smaller but I would guess that cuts the die size down to what they needed. SRAM eats a lot of space on an IC.
2021-07-10T17:50:55 < PaulFertser> What a lovely forum they have there ... https://bbs.21ic.com/iclist-1004-1.html
2021-07-10T17:52:12 < Laurenceb> anyone used this in Lunix?
2021-07-10T17:52:13 < Laurenceb> https://linux.die.net/man/2/recvmsg
2021-07-10T17:52:18 < Laurenceb> its always giving me -1
2021-07-10T17:54:44 < fenugrec> looks like USB + CAN is possible, "docs are outdated", https://github.com/candle-usb/candleLight_fw/issues/74#issuecomment-877649252
2021-07-10T17:54:46 < Laurenceb> hmm perror says Socket timestamp retreival error: Invalid argument
2021-07-10T17:55:57 < fenugrec> GenTooMan, the USB/CAN shared SRAM was probably copied over from the F103 which has this limitation. I think the F105/107 were OK though, which this seems to be trying to match
2021-07-10T17:58:01 < Laurenceb> candump uses same code wtf
2021-07-10T18:01:03 < Laurenceb> maybe I need to enable messages or something
2021-07-10T18:04:46 < Laurenceb> oh shit msg needs to be populated with _tons_ of config
2021-07-10T18:04:52 < Laurenceb> why u so complex Lunix
2021-07-10T18:08:53 < tct> just use FreeBSD man
2021-07-10T18:09:02 < tct> even r2com is using it nowdays
2021-07-10T18:10:02 < GenTooMan> https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/issues/453 <-- seems in april people were wondering about it
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2021-07-10T18:11:15 < mawk> Laurenceb: recvmsg is specially for the complex needs
2021-07-10T18:11:29 < mawk> for simply receiving network shit you have recv()
2021-07-10T18:11:39 < Laurenceb> I just need CAN to work properly
2021-07-10T18:11:54 < Laurenceb> tho tbf I'm trying to make it behave like usb bulk
2021-07-10T18:12:05 < mawk> are the docs telling you to use recvmsg?
2021-07-10T18:12:08 < Laurenceb> this is pretty complex
2021-07-10T18:12:11 < mawk> usually it's used to communicate magic with the kernel
2021-07-10T18:12:16 < mawk> or for special socket options
2021-07-10T18:12:21 < Laurenceb> I'm trying to copy candump sores
2021-07-10T18:12:38 < Laurenceb> bbl
2021-07-10T18:12:40 < mawk> then copy how they set up the msghdr struct
2021-07-10T18:13:25 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-10T18:13:34 < Laurenceb> I'm not sure this plan will owrk anyway
2021-07-10T18:13:53 < Laurenceb> setting socketcan real to timeout after 50us gives me 20ms delay
2021-07-10T18:14:08 < mawk> it feels like you're doing random changes to the code from here honestly lol
2021-07-10T18:14:09 < Laurenceb> think there is som esort of thread latency issue here that may be unresolvable
2021-07-10T18:14:14 < mawk> just read recvmsg docs, it's not that hard what you have to do
2021-07-10T18:14:24 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-10T18:14:53 < mawk> the manpage has example code
2021-07-10T18:15:15 < Laurenceb> is there any reason read with a timeout cant timeout after ~50us or does it have to wait for threads running off timer?
2021-07-10T18:15:38 < Laurenceb> surely I dont need real timer kernel for this?
2021-07-10T18:15:43 < mawk> how do you do read with a timeout?
2021-07-10T18:15:44 < Laurenceb> *real time
2021-07-10T18:15:47 < mawk> it's not a kernel thing anyway
2021-07-10T18:15:52 < mawk> so it's done in userspace by your lib
2021-07-10T18:15:58 < Laurenceb> 		tv.tv_usec = 0;//no timeout on the first frame 
2021-07-10T18:15:58 < Laurenceb> 		setsockopt(cansock, SOL_SOCKET, SO_RCVTIMEO, &tv, sizeof(tv));
2021-07-10T18:16:01 < mawk> 50µs is a very narrow time
2021-07-10T18:16:03 < Laurenceb> or 50 for 50us
2021-07-10T18:16:12 < mawk> your proc is 1GHz or so but it's very far from realtime kernel
2021-07-10T18:16:14 < Laurenceb> yeah but 350us also gives 15 to 25ms
2021-07-10T18:16:20 < mawk> so it's entirely possible 50µs gets delayed to 20ms
2021-07-10T18:16:34 < Laurenceb> soft echo test code gives 250us response time
2021-07-10T18:16:35 < mawk> you can set your process scheduling priority to realtime and see if it changes
2021-07-10T18:16:39 < Laurenceb> so it should be fast
2021-07-10T18:16:39 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-10T18:16:44 < mawk> use chrt
2021-07-10T18:16:47 < Laurenceb> be back later
2021-07-10T18:17:59 < mawk> sudo chrt --fifo 95 ./yourcommand
2021-07-10T18:18:07 < mawk> it will give almost highest priority to your command
2021-07-10T18:18:15 < mawk> don't put priority = 99 because some kernel threads still need to run
2021-07-10T18:18:22 < mawk> 98 is maybe acceptable
2021-07-10T18:21:46 < Steffanx> Got reception yet mawk?
2021-07-10T18:22:03 < mawk> lol
2021-07-10T18:22:08 < mawk> not yet
2021-07-10T18:22:13 < mawk> it didn't even hurt I was disappointed
2021-07-10T18:22:25 < mawk> do you think I can harrass GGD on the phone so I get the 2nd dose earlier?
2021-07-10T18:22:37 < Steffanx> no
2021-07-10T18:22:58 < mawk> why
2021-07-10T18:23:32 < Steffanx> they asked people NOT to do that after mr the young said something shortening the time between the doses.
2021-07-10T18:24:12 < Steffanx> You know Mr. the Young right? The guy with his fancy shoes
2021-07-10T18:24:32 < mawk> no
2021-07-10T18:24:35 < mawk> is he a clown?
2021-07-10T18:24:58 < Steffanx> https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/regering/bewindspersonen/hugo-de-jonge
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2021-07-10T19:13:24 < Laurenceb> back
2021-07-10T19:13:31 < Laurenceb> msg stuff works
2021-07-10T19:13:40 < Laurenceb> but there are some really weird bugs elsewhere
2021-07-10T19:14:18 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/i3JC5Y0Z
2021-07-10T19:14:54 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/zkRbkJA0
2021-07-10T19:14:57 < Laurenceb> what the fuuuuu
2021-07-10T19:15:22 < Laurenceb> call
2021-07-10T19:15:23 < Laurenceb> here1
2021-07-10T19:15:23 < Laurenceb> here2,125,125         16,5,7FF,125
2021-07-10T19:15:28 < Laurenceb> ^should be impossible
2021-07-10T19:15:50 < Laurenceb> 125 becomes 5 
2021-07-10T19:23:54 < Laurenceb> oh I mixe dnames up nvm
2021-07-10T19:24:06 < Laurenceb> it works prefect... at times of high conjestion
2021-07-10T19:24:12 < Laurenceb> which is kind of nice
2021-07-10T19:24:18 < Laurenceb> this is seriously odd
2021-07-10T19:24:28 < Laurenceb> lag decreases with increasing conjestion
2021-07-10T19:24:52 < Laurenceb> 3.5ms at 97% bus capacity, ~18ms and bouncing about at 1% capacity
2021-07-10T19:25:30 < Laurenceb> like there is some fancy adaptive clocking shizzle inside lunix kernel
2021-07-10T19:27:15 < Laurenceb> only problem is that hyperloop traction controllers go into safe mode if latency goes >10ms
2021-07-10T19:28:17 < ventyl> that code looks awful
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2021-07-10T19:44:45 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-07-10T19:44:47 < Laurenceb> 125,125
2021-07-10T19:44:48 < Laurenceb> bottom of loop, 125,5
2021-07-10T19:45:01 < Laurenceb> do I need to use volatile in lunix??!
2021-07-10T19:45:23 < Laurenceb> cuz I've got numbers "updating" outside of update codez
2021-07-10T19:47:57 < Steffanx> Are you guys still in some sort of lock down jadew?
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2021-07-10T19:50:37 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/yctjvPGS
2021-07-10T19:50:46 < Laurenceb> frame changes outside of read
2021-07-10T19:51:11 < Laurenceb> alters between the two printfs
2021-07-10T19:51:19 < Laurenceb> volatile needed?!
2021-07-10T19:54:00 < Steffanx> who's changing it?
2021-07-10T19:55:44 < Laurenceb> SocketCAN
2021-07-10T19:55:56 < Laurenceb> ret = read(sock, frame, sizeof(struct can_frame));
2021-07-10T20:04:42 < Steffanx> or your get_timestamp is messing it up for some unknown reason
2021-07-10T20:05:18 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-07-10T20:05:27 < Laurenceb> yet the last value is the correct one
2021-07-10T20:05:38 < Laurenceb> first value is from an earlier packet
2021-07-10T20:05:49 < Steffanx> or you have serious memory issues and maybe run it using some tool valgrind and see if it complains about something.
2021-07-10T20:07:59 < Laurenceb> hmm from candump source maybe that reads _everything_
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2021-07-10T20:09:15 < Laurenceb> yeah maybe 	if( (retval=recvmsg(sock, &msg, 0) )<0) gets _everything_
2021-07-10T20:09:22 < Laurenceb> in which case my code needs rewriting
2021-07-10T20:09:44 < Laurenceb> bbl
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2021-07-10T21:21:39 < englishman> The American engineer and supercomputer architect Seymour Cray is known to have been a hobby tunneller.[15] Cray built an 8 by 4 feet (2.4 by 1.2 m) cedar-floored tunnel under his house,[16] explaining that the digging helped him to think about computer designs. "While I'm digging in the tunnel, the elves will often come to me with solutions to my problem," he said.
2021-07-10T21:21:44 < englishman> Found a hobby for you Laurenceb
2021-07-10T21:21:51 < englishman> oh he left ;-(
2021-07-10T21:34:21 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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2021-07-10T21:44:57 < BrainDamage> I thought that was already his plan for his hyperloop?
2021-07-10T21:45:38 < ventyl> diggerloop
2021-07-10T22:14:20 -!- ahmster [~hamster@reverse-80.fdn.fr] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-10T22:44:22 < Steffanx> Laurence can ask that furze guy to help dig a tunnel
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2021-07-10T23:51:04 < bitmask> damnit
2021-07-10T23:54:29 -!- veverak [~veverak@ip-89-102-98-161.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2021-07-10T23:55:50 < bitmask> i get the great idea to clean out my closet of unorganized crap, get it all out on the bed and now i feel like shit and dont want to move
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--- Day changed Sun Jul 11 2021
2021-07-11T00:01:05 < Steffanx> I believe in you bitmask 
2021-07-11T00:03:32 -!- akaWolf [~akaWolf@akawolf.org] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-11T00:26:26 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-43-177.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-11T00:26:39 < kakium69> summer69
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2021-07-11T00:31:55 < BrainDamage> bitmask: get a box and throw everything in it
2021-07-11T00:32:46 < BrainDamage> and possibly go to a doctor if that repeats, it's a symptom of depression
2021-07-11T00:37:11 < kakium69> I did that too
2021-07-11T00:37:44 < kakium69> but I went into the box myself too
2021-07-11T00:40:02 < kakium69> don't get that big box
2021-07-11T00:41:06 < kakium69> assuming you are talking about putting a project in a box?
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2021-07-11T00:48:54 < upgrdman> an pic24 pros in here? the mcu is clocked by an external crystal. when i clock the adc with the internal rc oscillator, i see spikes of noise on one of my ADC channels, sometimes massive 1-sample-long spikes. if i clock the ADC by crystal/2, it's nice and clean. wtf... why?!
2021-07-11T00:49:13 < upgrdman> almost makes me feel like they fucked up some sort of clock domain metastability thing?
2021-07-11T00:49:32 < kakium69> errata?
2021-07-11T00:49:44 < upgrdman> good idea. googling now
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2021-07-11T00:56:43 < upgrdman> hmm. lots of ADC errata, but none look like the issue i had
2021-07-11T00:56:54 < upgrdman> oh well. "problem's fixed" i hope.
2021-07-11T00:58:18 < kakium69> do you have more chips to try on?
2021-07-11T01:01:18 < upgrdman> not right now, but probably in a few days i will
2021-07-11T01:03:00 < bitmask> BrainDamage not depression, crohns
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2021-07-11T01:03:14 < specing> pic24?!
2021-07-11T01:03:28 < specing> upgrdman: go to ##pic,it hasn't had a PIC discussion in like a decade LOL
2021-07-11T01:04:51 < upgrdman> lol
2021-07-11T01:05:33 < kakium69> bitmask: sup?
2021-07-11T01:05:43 < bitmask> nothin, hows it going
2021-07-11T01:06:59 < kakium69> it's like hottest day of the year now
2021-07-11T01:07:05 < kakium69> but nights are getting dark
2021-07-11T01:07:26 < bitmask> cooler here today
2021-07-11T01:07:58 < kakium69> I feel a bit down because it means summer is kinda.. behind
2021-07-11T01:08:09 < bitmask> nooo, dont say that
2021-07-11T01:08:43 < kakium69> it's not true but
2021-07-11T01:09:14 < kakium69> dark nights are kind of nature's clock
2021-07-11T01:09:19 < bitmask> but.. kinda is, its gonna go fast, but nothing wrong with that i guess, fall is nice
2021-07-11T01:09:51 < kakium69> true
2021-07-11T01:10:46 < kakium69> day temps are getting just higher and higher though
2021-07-11T01:12:10 < BrainDamage> here temps keep going up until mid-august
2021-07-11T01:13:06 < kakium69> here usually to mid-late july
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2021-07-11T01:14:46 < bitmask> maybe id like it more closer to the equator with less of a temp swing
2021-07-11T01:18:45 < BrainDamage> funningly enough I'm nortthern than most us
2021-07-11T01:19:15 < bitmask> where are you
2021-07-11T01:19:25 < kakium69> it
2021-07-11T01:19:26 < bitmask> and kaki, i forget, where are you
2021-07-11T01:19:31 < kakium69> fi
2021-07-11T01:19:35 < bitmask> ahh
2021-07-11T01:20:42 < BrainDamage> 45.8N
2021-07-11T02:10:05 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/9B0pEiN.png
2021-07-11T02:10:09 < bitmask> i think i should reprint the gold insert, flow is def too low
2021-07-11T02:10:13 < bitmask> just wondering if i should choose bronze instead of gold
2021-07-11T02:11:10 < upgrdman> radiation huh?
2021-07-11T02:11:38 < bitmask> printing a lead lined container to hold mild samples
2021-07-11T02:12:44 < upgrdman> i wish the radiation meters at work had a data out port
2021-07-11T02:12:58 < upgrdman> would make calibrating our other shit so much easier
2021-07-11T02:13:14 < bitmask> i ordered a very cheap meter, i just want to compare to natural background radiation so thats all i need
2021-07-11T02:15:08 < jadew> https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/75c043f4b6102935153ebc31de2391b19c3c7e9a8a42e4cfd60b690df6544863_1.jpg
2021-07-11T02:15:30 < bitmask> no, my dad did
2021-07-11T02:16:35 < upgrdman> anyone walk a lot (or hike, etc.) ? are "merino wool" socks worth the ridiculous prices?
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2021-07-11T02:17:20 < Laurenceb> damn lunix you crazy
2021-07-11T02:17:27 < Laurenceb> ree lunix
2021-07-11T02:17:37 < Laurenceb> socketcan is "working"
2021-07-11T02:17:47 < upgrdman> what like anus torvalds do to your now
2021-07-11T02:17:50 < Laurenceb> timeout works correctly with a busy socket
2021-07-11T02:17:57 < upgrdman> s/your/you
2021-07-11T02:18:23 < Laurenceb> with one packet per second it gives up to 20ms delay when I ask it to timeout after 50us
2021-07-11T02:18:35 < Laurenceb> Lunix kernel has some sort of adaptive timer
2021-07-11T02:18:46 < upgrdman> i thought normal lunix was NOT real time
2021-07-11T02:18:55 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-07-11T02:19:33 < Laurenceb> with timeout=0 (never), it works with <300us delay at all times
2021-07-11T02:20:00 < Laurenceb> but I need timeout 
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2021-07-11T02:55:16 < Laurenceb> sheet wtf
2021-07-11T02:55:31 < Laurenceb> maybe Lunix is using the wrong units for timeput
2021-07-11T02:55:34 < Laurenceb> *timeout
2021-07-11T02:55:46 < Laurenceb> 5us is much more well behaved
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2021-07-11T05:03:09 < bitmask> haha i bought two boxes of scotch brite pads, one grey one red, i knew there were 26 pads in each, what i didnt know is that each pad is 6x9"
2021-07-11T05:03:34 < upgrdman> heh
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2021-07-11T14:19:26 < tct> well then
2021-07-11T14:19:33 < tct> hello everybody
2021-07-11T14:20:12 < englishman> hello beautiful
2021-07-11T14:20:19 < Steffanx> Hello Mr tct. What brings you here on this Sunday?
2021-07-11T14:23:30 < tct> not much
2021-07-11T14:23:36 < tct> how about you? anything special going on?
2021-07-11T14:24:38 < Steffanx> Nope
2021-07-11T14:39:44 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-11T14:40:27 < Laurenceb> fucking lunix
2021-07-11T14:40:36 < Laurenceb> entire lunix kernel uses weird adaptive clocking
2021-07-11T14:40:47 < specing> advanced lunix
2021-07-11T14:40:58 < Laurenceb> udp is laggy until I use it
2021-07-11T14:41:06 < Laurenceb> why so complex reee
2021-07-11T14:41:06 < BrainDamage> you can disable tickless kernel
2021-07-11T14:41:12 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-11T14:41:12 < BrainDamage> and use a static tick
2021-07-11T14:41:16 < BrainDamage> power save
2021-07-11T14:41:48 < Laurenceb> ideally I want it to limit to ~1ms not >=10ms
2021-07-11T14:42:16 < Laurenceb> atm single udp packet = up to 20ms delay
2021-07-11T14:42:24 < BrainDamage> unrelated https://github.com/mvp/uhubctl
2021-07-11T14:42:26 < Laurenceb> a load of udp packets = <100us delay
2021-07-11T14:43:41 < Laurenceb> changing priority has no effect on behaviour
2021-07-11T14:45:10 < Laurenceb> looks like I need to consult a lunix internals guru
2021-07-11T14:45:28 < Laurenceb> ideally there would be a way to limit delay in tickless operation
2021-07-11T14:46:27 < BrainDamage> you can set the scheduler frequency even in tickless mode
2021-07-11T14:46:36 < BrainDamage> config_hz
2021-07-11T14:47:07 < BrainDamage> then the kernel will fire up an interrupt at that frequency
2021-07-11T14:49:03 < Laurenceb> at runtime from userspace?
2021-07-11T14:50:25 < BrainDamage> it's a compile time, and it's in kernelspace
2021-07-11T14:50:31 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-11T14:50:42 < Laurenceb> I want to avoid recompiling the kernel if poss
2021-07-11T14:50:54 < BrainDamage> good luck with that
2021-07-11T14:50:59 < Laurenceb> maybe there is some nasty haxor I can do
2021-07-11T14:51:04 < BrainDamage> you're on a shittberry pi, right?
2021-07-11T14:51:08 < Laurenceb> I dont care if the processing is slow
2021-07-11T14:51:09 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-11T14:51:10 < BrainDamage> those have 50 or 100Hz
2021-07-11T14:51:22 < Laurenceb> its the io responsiveness as it needs to handshake and stuff
2021-07-11T14:58:17 < Laurenceb> I could use pthreads
2021-07-11T14:58:28 < Laurenceb> but would that give similar delay?
2021-07-11T14:59:08 < BrainDamage> 🤷
2021-07-11T15:00:37 < Laurenceb> https://probablydance.com/2019/12/30/measuring-mutexes-spinlocks-and-how-bad-the-linux-scheduler-really-is/
2021-07-11T15:00:42 < Laurenceb> holy shit wut
2021-07-11T15:00:50 < Laurenceb> at least my delays arent that bad
2021-07-11T15:01:55 < Laurenceb>  /proc/sys/kernel/sched_min_granularity_n
2021-07-11T15:01:59 < Laurenceb> interdasting
2021-07-11T15:02:00 < ventyl> that's an old article
2021-07-11T15:02:38 < ventyl> and I am not quite sure I can agree with it
2021-07-11T15:02:58 < Laurenceb> oh wow theres a bazillion settings
2021-07-11T15:03:58 < Laurenceb> ideally I'd need a way to "kick" it in the same way getting ~20 UDP packets does
2021-07-11T15:04:22 < Laurenceb> so it actually becomes responsive for a while
2021-07-11T15:05:05 < Laurenceb> time to look at all this shit
2021-07-11T15:05:59 < Laurenceb>  /proc/sys/kernel/sched_wakeup_granularity_ns is 3ms, not idea to start with
2021-07-11T15:06:29 < ventyl> umm, what is the exact problem you are trying to resolve?
2021-07-11T15:06:42 < ventyl> long delay before sending a burst of frames?
2021-07-11T15:10:54 < Laurenceb> ventyl: I need to handshake with a raspberry pi over can bus
2021-07-11T15:11:15 < Laurenceb> lots of devices handshaking at once is really fast, like <500us to handshake for most of them
2021-07-11T15:11:34 < Laurenceb> 1 device handshaking per second has huge delay of close to 20ms
2021-07-11T15:11:53 < Laurenceb> I need <10ms ot handshake or the device will go into safe mode
2021-07-11T15:18:56 < ventyl> and what is raspberry pi doing in terms of waiting for handshake? sitting in read() from socketcan socket?
2021-07-11T15:19:02 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-11T15:19:32 < ventyl> and. how is your cpufreq set up?
2021-07-11T15:20:44 < Steffanx> Using lunix for real-time shit without real-time shit. Yay. 
2021-07-11T15:21:03 < ventyl> i don't think that this is clear case of lack of realtime capabilities
2021-07-11T15:21:35 < ventyl> i would expect that due to inactivity there is some power saving mode applied and a lot of delay is accounted to activating high performance mode
2021-07-11T15:21:44 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-11T15:21:50 < Steffanx> But the 10 ms demand is there. And can you guarantee this on lunix? With other applications running as well
2021-07-11T15:22:06 < Laurenceb> ventyl: I'm not sure how frequency is set up, I'm guessing its >600MHz at all time
2021-07-11T15:22:31 < Laurenceb>  /proc/sys/kernel/sched_latency_ns can be changed, but it has no effect on the measured latency
2021-07-11T15:22:42 < ventyl> Laurenceb: to guess means knowing shit
2021-07-11T15:24:02 < BrainDamage> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/scaling_governor
2021-07-11T15:24:17 < Laurenceb> 600MHz atm
2021-07-11T15:24:38 < Laurenceb> ondemand
2021-07-11T15:24:39 < BrainDamage> give the answer for that
2021-07-11T15:24:49 < BrainDamage> ok, set to schedutil or performance
2021-07-11T15:24:57 < ventyl> Laurenceb: that means, that freq goes down and latencies go up if there is no load
2021-07-11T15:25:01 < BrainDamage> performance would be better for your case
2021-07-11T15:25:30 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-07-11T15:25:39 < Laurenceb> doesnt that just set the core speed?
2021-07-11T15:25:58 < ventyl> nope
2021-07-11T15:25:59 < BrainDamage> the core goes to sleep if there's no load
2021-07-11T15:26:08 < ventyl> also some peripherals
2021-07-11T15:26:29 < Laurenceb> hmm ok
2021-07-11T15:26:43 < Laurenceb> I'll try it
2021-07-11T15:28:03 < Laurenceb> no effect
2021-07-11T15:28:19 < kakium69> he trying to make raspi usable?
2021-07-11T15:29:04 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-07-11T15:29:25 < Laurenceb> unironically hope Musk doesnt get blown up in Bransons death trap in a few hours time
2021-07-11T15:31:02 < ventyl> musk?
2021-07-11T15:31:38 < tct> you don't want Sir. Scamalot to blow up?
2021-07-11T15:33:01 < kakium69> what is muskie doing?
2021-07-11T15:33:03 < kakium69> today?
2021-07-11T15:33:20 < tct> pumpin' with stvn
2021-07-11T15:33:25 < tct> Steffanx confirmed
2021-07-11T15:33:32 < Laurenceb> flying with Branson in spaceship9001 or whatever its called
2021-07-11T15:33:34 < kakium69> docking with stvn
2021-07-11T15:33:55 < kakium69> Laurenceb: cool
2021-07-11T15:34:36 < ventyl> Laurenceb: where did you get the info that Musk has to be on that flight?
2021-07-11T15:34:49 < kakium69> lurencer is insider
2021-07-11T15:34:57 < kakium69> musk has him on speeddial
2021-07-11T15:35:13 < Laurenceb> nasaspaceflight forumz
2021-07-11T15:35:28 < Laurenceb> >zero g docking with Bransons anal port
2021-07-11T15:35:30 < tct> blaxter is the ground op
2021-07-11T15:35:42 < tct> blaxter coordinates the lubing process
2021-07-11T15:36:00 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-07-11T15:36:08 < tct> :D
2021-07-11T15:36:17 < Steffanx> i always wonder how Laurenceb who i consider a smart guy can say such dumb things.
2021-07-11T15:36:29 < tct> same here
2021-07-11T15:36:44 < Steffanx> schizophrenia is real?
2021-07-11T15:36:45 < tct> but hey... it has been worse, right?
2021-07-11T15:36:54 < tct> I'm literally okay with anybody here.
2021-07-11T15:37:06 < tct> except for zyp ofc. as we all know zyp just sucks :p
2021-07-11T15:37:07 < Steffanx> Tell cracki that, he doesnt want to come to ##stm32 here :P
2021-07-11T15:37:14 < tct> Steffanx, how come?
2021-07-11T15:37:39 < Steffanx> He hates us. because he got banned and he doesnt like karlp
2021-07-11T15:37:57 < tct> why did he get banned?
2021-07-11T15:38:35 < Steffanx> i dont even remember
2021-07-11T15:38:42 < tct> cracki was the german dude, right?
2021-07-11T15:38:48 < Steffanx> oui
2021-07-11T15:39:13 < tct> Steffanx, what is the preferred/recommended way to break up with a dutch person?
2021-07-11T15:40:05 < Steffanx> lol, what kind if weird question is this. Totally depends on the situation
2021-07-11T15:42:00 < tct> mawk, any input?
2021-07-11T15:42:08 < mawk> what
2021-07-11T15:42:45 < mawk> who do you want to break up with
2021-07-11T15:42:52 < Steffanx> You
2021-07-11T15:42:54 < Steffanx> And me
2021-07-11T15:42:55 < mawk> :(
2021-07-11T15:43:03 < tct> potentially a dutch gf
2021-07-11T15:43:10 < Steffanx> Yours?
2021-07-11T15:43:13 < mawk> what did she do
2021-07-11T15:43:19 < mawk> has she been a bad gf?
2021-07-11T15:43:20 < Steffanx> Or asking for a friend?
2021-07-11T15:43:55 < tct> Steffanx, shouldn't matter
2021-07-11T15:44:13 < tct> mawk, the situation is past that point
2021-07-11T15:44:21 < mawk> tell them "sorry I'm depressed I can't see you anymore" and they will have to depart in blissful ignorance that the situation is not salvageable
2021-07-11T15:44:25 < mawk> and they won't try to fight it back
2021-07-11T15:44:57 < mawk> if you don't give a reason for breakup they will want one, and when you give a reason that is even remotely actionable by them they will try to fix it
2021-07-11T15:44:57 < Steffanx> Lol. And then live with your gf who you don't want to send back to Paris for a year ? ;)
2021-07-11T15:45:03 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T15:45:05 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-11T15:45:17 < mawk> the cat is hers so if I kick her out I lose my precious cat
2021-07-11T15:45:25 < mawk> that's the main reason she's still here
2021-07-11T15:45:29 < mawk> but she doesn't know it
2021-07-11T15:45:29 < Steffanx> She's still there?
2021-07-11T15:45:30 < Steffanx> Ahh
2021-07-11T15:45:32 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-07-11T15:45:37 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-11T15:45:57 < tct> mawk, damit man - it is very scary how spot on your explanation was LOL
2021-07-11T15:46:14 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T15:46:46 < Xogium> can't help but think a relation isn't worth it lol  everyone keeps breaking up all the time
2021-07-11T15:46:49 < mawk> well if I get left with a reason that is even a bit modifiable by me, I would totally try to fix it; so better to say it's because of something nobody can change
2021-07-11T15:47:14 < mawk> well the time before breaking up is arguably worth it Xogium 
2021-07-11T15:47:20 < Steffanx> Like a mawk can be changed..
2021-07-11T15:47:24 < tct> mawk, the trying to fix part already happened
2021-07-11T15:47:39 < mawk> during breakup you feel bad for like 2 months until you find a new smash buddy on tinder
2021-07-11T15:47:44 < mawk> but your relationship can last for years
2021-07-11T15:47:59 < Steffanx> A Russian one with an abusive husband?
2021-07-11T15:48:06 < Steffanx> Good luck
2021-07-11T15:48:14 < Steffanx> Is that still a thing mawk?
2021-07-11T15:48:25 < mawk> then if you're confident she won't try to fix it again tct you just say that time is up now, and there's no fixing possible anymore
2021-07-11T15:48:28 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-07-11T15:48:42 < mawk> of course
2021-07-11T15:48:46 < mawk> it's been like a year now
2021-07-11T15:48:48 < mawk> I didn't count
2021-07-11T15:49:06 < tct> mawk, because dutch girlfriends are known to be good at accepting failure? LOL
2021-07-11T15:49:23 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T15:49:45 < mawk> well I'm speaking for what I would want someone to do if they break up with me, and I'm officially dutch
2021-07-11T15:49:50 < mawk> I'm not a girlfriend though
2021-07-11T15:50:27 < tct> when & how did you become officially dutch? Did you have to walk across a tulips field with wooden shoes?
2021-07-11T15:50:36 < mawk> when I was born
2021-07-11T15:50:45 < tct> wtf I thought you were a frenchman
2021-07-11T15:50:48 < mawk> but then the law got a bit fuzzy and I wasn't dutch for some years
2021-07-11T15:50:50 < mawk> yes
2021-07-11T15:50:52 < mawk> I'm both
2021-07-11T15:50:58 < mawk> dutch and french and luxembourgisch
2021-07-11T15:51:12 < tct> are you pulling a scam of some sorts?
2021-07-11T15:51:17 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T15:51:18 < mawk> no
2021-07-11T15:51:23 < tct> you probably should
2021-07-11T15:51:56 < mawk> my mother is french, my father is dutch, and my great-great--great-grandfather was luxembourgisch
2021-07-11T15:52:10 < BrainDamage> if you want weird, I have a friend that has pompeii on his birth certificate
2021-07-11T15:52:21 < BrainDamage> his mother went into labor there while visiting
2021-07-11T15:52:27 < mawk> so I asked the "ministry of indigenes" of Luxembourg to recover my luxembourg citizenship and it worked
2021-07-11T15:52:46 < mawk> nice BrainDamage 
2021-07-11T15:52:46 < tct> BrainDamage, how did he turn out?
2021-07-11T15:52:52 < ventyl> ministry of liver
2021-07-11T15:53:06 < tct> not sure why that made me giggle.
2021-07-11T15:53:12 < tct> but it did.
2021-07-11T15:53:14 < BrainDamage> tct: alive, since i met him
2021-07-11T15:54:20 < mawk> I have to make a dutch passport to be able to vote though
2021-07-11T15:54:29 < mawk> and most important to be able to buy cigarettes from vending machines
2021-07-11T15:54:29 < mawk> you have to swipe your passport in iy
2021-07-11T15:54:35 < mawk> it*
2021-07-11T15:54:54 < BrainDamage> you passport?!
2021-07-11T15:54:57 < BrainDamage>  * your passport?!
2021-07-11T15:54:58 < ventyl> so, no foreigners can buy cigarettes in dutchland?
2021-07-11T15:55:02 < BrainDamage> why not your id card
2021-07-11T15:55:03 < mawk> yes BrainDamage 
2021-07-11T15:55:07 < mawk> to prove your age
2021-07-11T15:55:14 < mawk> maybe ID card works too
2021-07-11T15:55:32 < mawk> ventyl they can, in tobacco shops
2021-07-11T15:55:40 < mawk> but I don't like people so I prefer machines
2021-07-11T15:55:44 < ventyl> ah, not that I would be affected anyway
2021-07-11T15:55:48 < mawk> and the machine didn't like my french passport
2021-07-11T15:56:14 < Steffanx> Smoking...
2021-07-11T15:56:24 < mawk> it's just for rolling joints
2021-07-11T15:56:29 < mawk> not for smoking
2021-07-11T15:56:45 < Steffanx> Are Swiss girls that much different from dutch girls mr tct?
2021-07-11T15:56:53 < mawk> they talk louder
2021-07-11T15:57:19 < mawk> and they have blonde pigtails
2021-07-11T15:57:29 < mawk> also they yodel in the bed
2021-07-11T15:58:02 < englishman> Steffanx: I believe he got banned because he was a depressed hateful incel
2021-07-11T15:58:07 < tct> Steffanx, answering that would require a longer dialog, I wouldn't want to say anything that might sound wrong. Different yes, but that doesn't mean bad/worse.
2021-07-11T15:58:14 < mawk> he didn't talk about women englishman 
2021-07-11T15:58:17 < mawk> you remember it wrong
2021-07-11T15:58:23 < tct> englishman, is that regarding cracki?
2021-07-11T15:58:24 < mawk> he was just depressed and slightly racist
2021-07-11T15:58:34 < tct> sounds like a normal german to me 
2021-07-11T15:58:36 < mawk> he's gay, he's not an incel
2021-07-11T15:58:40 < mawk> he doesn't care about women
2021-07-11T15:58:59 < englishman> I didn't car enough to notice
2021-07-11T15:59:27 < mawk> he's a very nice guy
2021-07-11T15:59:47 < mawk> just having depression
2021-07-11T16:00:05 < mawk> and slightly radical opinions on certain topics
2021-07-11T16:00:08 < englishman> there's other channels for that
2021-07-11T16:00:35 < mawk> yes well that's what he ended up doing
2021-07-11T16:00:38 < englishman> this one is for fawning over how great msp430 is
2021-07-11T16:00:42 < mawk> he never came back
2021-07-11T16:01:04 < englishman> being banned and unable to join is a good reason to not come back
2021-07-11T16:01:18 < mawk> he was unbanned on freenode but still didn't came back
2021-07-11T16:01:26 < mawk> even when I told him he could join again
2021-07-11T16:02:21 < mawk> send her buy comcombers and change the locks tct
2021-07-11T16:02:25 < mawk> best way to breakup
2021-07-11T16:02:40 < ventyl> fucking washing machine. i wasn't able to activate one function about a week ago. now it is activated even without activating it
2021-07-11T16:02:43 < ventyl> that software is a crap
2021-07-11T16:02:46 < mawk> that's how I got rid of a sticky uncle squatting at my mother in law place
2021-07-11T16:02:56 < mawk> have you read the manual ventyl ?
2021-07-11T16:03:21 < Steffanx> Cucumber mawk?
2021-07-11T16:03:24 < Steffanx> Or komkommer?
2021-07-11T16:03:31 < mawk> komkombre
2021-07-11T16:03:39 < englishman> if he was unbanned it was in error
2021-07-11T16:03:41 < mawk> concombre à la sauce blanche
2021-07-11T16:04:06 < ventyl> mawk: well, i had. but I know that it has shitty software since the day 0
2021-07-11T16:04:29 < ventyl> as almost always I have to press any key before next keypress is interpreted in a way described in the manual
2021-07-11T16:04:46 < ventyl> so I expect that memory isn't zeroed after MCU boots up
2021-07-11T16:04:47 < mawk> it's the THERAC-20 of washing machines
2021-07-11T16:05:07 < mawk> killing your laundry after operator error
2021-07-11T16:06:26 < ventyl> oh poor pillow :(
2021-07-11T16:07:05 < mawk> Steffanx you stole all the greens from french
2021-07-11T16:07:57 < mawk> aubergine aux radijs
2021-07-11T16:10:03 < mawk> sur mon fauteuil
2021-07-11T16:10:30 < Steffanx> je ne parle pas français
2021-07-11T16:10:54 < Steffanx> was me i think, englishman, no error
2021-07-11T16:11:11 < englishman> are you implying you never make errors
2021-07-11T16:11:34 < Steffanx> nope, but it was an error
2021-07-11T16:12:24 < ventyl> was or was not?
2021-07-11T16:12:27 < Steffanx> wanst
2021-07-11T16:12:31 < Steffanx> wasnt. lol
2021-07-11T16:12:42 < Steffanx> that WAS an error :P
2021-07-11T16:12:47 < Steffanx> or a mistake.
2021-07-11T16:13:08 < ventyl> now I got completely lost and also lost any remaining interest into this topic
2021-07-11T16:13:32 < Steffanx> yeah, same
2021-07-11T16:13:45 < Steffanx> it too warm for this today.
2021-07-11T16:14:10 < englishman> yes good thermals
2021-07-11T16:14:32 < Steffanx> need break up advice instead, ventyl?
2021-07-11T16:14:53 < tct> :D
2021-07-11T16:15:28 < ventyl> any breakup advice would have to be prepended by dating advice. otherwise my girlfriend count could underflow unsigned char I guess
2021-07-11T16:15:40 < ventyl> and I don't want to have 256 girlfriends
2021-07-11T16:16:15 < BrainDamage> or just be aware of your boundaries
2021-07-11T16:16:25 < BrainDamage> or don't use two's complement
2021-07-11T16:17:03 < ventyl> that would still make like 128 too many of them
2021-07-11T16:19:24 < Steffanx> you dont need a gf or bf to get break up advice
2021-07-11T16:25:35 < specing> ventyl: 127*
2021-07-11T16:29:34 < mawk> so tct what are you going to do
2021-07-11T16:29:57 < tct> letting her cool down - like the last N times.
2021-07-11T16:30:09 < mawk> is she having anger issues?
2021-07-11T16:30:30 < mawk> or does she suffer from malignant hyperthermia and she's literally cooling down in an ice bath in your bathtub
2021-07-11T16:30:33 < tct> probably doesn't quality as "issues"
2021-07-11T16:30:40 < mawk> anger personality
2021-07-11T16:30:42 < tct> certainly not the latter
2021-07-11T16:36:18 < mawk> does she have a therapist?
2021-07-11T16:37:56 < tct> sorry mate, I'm not going to share any information on irc
2021-07-11T16:37:58 < Steffanx> Time for a beer and relax, tct
2021-07-11T16:38:06 < tct> Steffanx, I am pretty chill. just sad.
2021-07-11T16:38:31 < Steffanx> Alright 
2021-07-11T16:38:39 < mawk> you can share in private message if you like
2021-07-11T16:38:55 < mawk> people shared enough incriminating information to me for me to send them to jail, and they're still free
2021-07-11T16:39:03 < mawk> which testifies to my secret-keeping abilities
2021-07-11T16:39:09 < tct> I appreciate the offer, thanks. but she deserves better than me talking about that level of personal stuff on irc
2021-07-11T16:39:19 < tct> I don't doubt that
2021-07-11T16:39:29 < Steffanx> Lol mawk. I'm not convinced 
2021-07-11T16:39:40 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T16:39:41 < mawk> why not
2021-07-11T16:40:02 < mawk> if you tell me "I have this rash on my penis can you take a look?" you can be sure I won't leak your picture
2021-07-11T16:40:02 < tct> but you're also not convicted ;-)
2021-07-11T16:40:06 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T16:40:36 < tct> so your one compelling argument involves people sending you dick pics
2021-07-11T16:40:42 < tct> stvn alerted
2021-07-11T16:41:04 < Steffanx> Sexy times 😍
2021-07-11T16:41:08 < tct> didn't know we had utf8 support
2021-07-11T16:41:27 < tct> was freenode non-utf8? I certainly didn't update my client.
2021-07-11T16:42:46 < mawk> lol it was a hypothetical tct
2021-07-11T16:43:02 < mawk> more like people admitting to doing illegal stuff
2021-07-11T16:43:05 < tct> well too late. dick pics are on their way to you.
2021-07-11T16:43:06 < mawk> and they're still free
2021-07-11T16:43:16 < mawk> some are in jail but not because of me, just their own stupidity
2021-07-11T16:43:26 < tct> french people?
2021-07-11T16:43:28 < mawk> I even sent a postcard to the one in jail, I'm a good friend
2021-07-11T16:43:30 < mawk> yes
2021-07-11T16:43:41 < mawk> I await the dick pic
2021-07-11T16:44:05 < tct> time to pull the bathroom surveillance footage from when Steffanx visited.
2021-07-11T16:44:13 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T16:44:54 < mawk> irc is encoding agnostic tct
2021-07-11T16:44:59 < mawk> freenode was utf8 if you wanted it to be
2021-07-11T16:45:05 < englishman> sorry to hear about your romantic problems tct
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2021-07-11T16:45:57 < tct> englishman no worries, it hasn't been romantic for a while
2021-07-11T16:45:58 < englishman> interesting that you chose to come to irc for advice but i can see that
2021-07-11T16:46:10 < englishman> that sucks you seemed to be having a good time
2021-07-11T16:46:22 < tct> "seemed" ;p
2021-07-11T16:47:59 < Steffanx> Poor dog
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2021-07-11T16:51:02 < mawk> what's wrong with coming to irc for advice englishman 
2021-07-11T16:57:45 < BrainDamage> is it just me or has the rate of aliexpress spam climbed considerably?
2021-07-11T17:04:36 < mawk> I think your IRC client has a problem tct
2021-07-11T17:04:40 < mawk> I didn't receive any picture yet
2021-07-11T17:05:36 < BrainDamage> check your ctcp settings
2021-07-11T17:05:41 < mawk> the last time I sent a dick pic on irc to a gay guy he kept it in his files for years
2021-07-11T17:05:49 < Steffanx> Not for me BrainDamage .. no aliexpress span
2021-07-11T17:05:49 < mawk> and when he heard I had a girlfriend he sent it to her
2021-07-11T17:05:51 < Steffanx> Spam.
2021-07-11T17:05:52 < englishman> they have always spammed a lot, but a lot of it went to google spam filters
2021-07-11T17:06:46 < Steffanx> That's also  way of introducing it to her, mawk
2021-07-11T17:06:51 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T17:07:48 < BrainDamage> was he envious?
2021-07-11T17:07:55 < mawk> probably
2021-07-11T17:08:06 < mawk> of all the gay guys I talked to they all wanted to have sex with pe
2021-07-11T17:08:08 < mawk> me
2021-07-11T17:08:11 < mawk> except Cracki
2021-07-11T17:08:26 < mawk> not counting the closeted ones I don't know about
2021-07-11T17:08:30 < Steffanx> Cracki is to shy to say it
2021-07-11T17:08:37 < mawk> lol
2021-07-11T17:08:58 < BrainDamage> probably the dating pool for them is so small they have to take all the chances
2021-07-11T17:09:53 < BrainDamage> also, mawk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cSANFkUz3A
2021-07-11T17:12:14 < mawk> who is this mister brownstone
2021-07-11T17:12:30 < BrainDamage> heroin
2021-07-11T17:12:55 < mawk> ah yes
2021-07-11T17:13:01 < mawk> mister brown sugar
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2021-07-11T17:14:02 < BrainDamage> and the band got a loong history with that
2021-07-11T17:14:50 < mawk> I don't think I've ever did real mr. brownstone, the purity is horrendous this day
2021-07-11T17:14:57 < mawk> I'd like to get some real one before I die though
2021-07-11T17:15:10 < mawk> and access the pantheon of guitarists
2021-07-11T17:17:56 < BrainDamage> jimi hendrix got by with lsd
2021-07-11T17:19:17 < Laurenceb> now ur sounding like my dad
2021-07-11T17:21:59 < BrainDamage> your dad took lsd to follow jimi hendrix's career aspirations?
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2021-07-11T17:56:29 < Laurenceb> yes
2021-07-11T17:56:36 < Laurenceb> >Colbert
2021-07-11T17:56:39 < Laurenceb> the state of this
2021-07-11T17:57:33 < Laurenceb> tbf he is more McAfee than Hendrix
2021-07-11T18:01:59 < Laurenceb> cringey presenters
2021-07-11T18:02:05 < Laurenceb> I'm cringing hard
2021-07-11T18:02:35 < Laurenceb> inb4 it blows up
2021-07-11T18:04:00 < Laurenceb> keeek the livechat spammers, its like scrolling 4chan
2021-07-11T18:04:19 < Laurenceb> only think that makes up for the cringe
2021-07-11T18:05:12 < Laurenceb> >more cringe
2021-07-11T18:05:21 < Laurenceb> wtf I want it to blow up now
2021-07-11T18:06:20 < Laurenceb> >they disabled comments but left livechat open
2021-07-11T18:06:21 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-07-11T18:06:51 < Laurenceb> lolll 4chan are spamming with India = poo memes
2021-07-11T18:07:22 < Laurenceb> >millions of turd emojis
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2021-07-11T18:08:00 < Laurenceb> now the trump supporters have found the livechat lol
2021-07-11T18:08:23 < Laurenceb> tfw the livechat is more amusing than the launch
2021-07-11T18:09:41 < Laurenceb> >buy dogecoin >vaccines = illuminati death plot
2021-07-11T18:11:28 < R2COM> trump is a leftie, just like biden, and trump supporters are stupid muricans. two camps, democrats and "republicans"  - supporters of both are people with down syndrome
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2021-07-11T18:20:43 < mawk> I thought hendrix died of barbiturate and alcohol BrainDamage 
2021-07-11T18:21:59 < mawk> like a lot of stars
2021-07-11T18:22:18 < mawk> amy wienerhouse, michael jackson
2021-07-11T18:22:54 < mawk> it's like they have this one cool drug and the only indication is "don't mix with alcohol", but they still do it and die
2021-07-11T18:23:04 < mawk> too bad for them
2021-07-11T18:23:12 < mawk> in the meantime I'm the one still alive
2021-07-11T18:23:42 < BrainDamage> you almost can't overdose on lsd
2021-07-11T18:23:49 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-11T18:24:01 < mawk> I heard a story of a guy that iv'd 300mg of lsd thinking it was cocaine
2021-07-11T18:24:07 < mawk> his only physical symptom was nosebleed
2021-07-11T18:24:11 < BrainDamage> also, I said nothing about hhis death
2021-07-11T18:24:15 < mawk> ah
2021-07-11T18:24:21 < mawk> I didn't know what "get by" meant
2021-07-11T18:24:33 < BrainDamage> use lsd as inspiration
2021-07-11T18:25:15 < BrainDamage> jackson didn't die by his own hand
2021-07-11T18:25:26 < BrainDamage> he was killed by his personal doctor
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2021-07-11T18:31:14 < mawk>  yeah
2021-07-11T18:31:19 < mawk> but same reason for dying
2021-07-11T18:31:22 < mawk> barbiturates
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2021-07-11T19:02:21 < Laurenceb> well that was boring
2021-07-11T19:02:26 < Laurenceb> was Musk even onboard?
2021-07-11T19:06:27 < Steffanx> No...
2021-07-11T19:06:34 < Steffanx> Was he supposed to be?
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2021-07-11T19:19:14 < Laurenceb> Nasaspaceflight forum lied to me
2021-07-11T19:19:17 < Laurenceb> reee
2021-07-11T19:19:21 < Laurenceb> Branson, Bezos, and everyone like them are all reptilian aliens who were stranded on Earth in the Roswell crash of the 1950's and have been waiting all this time for human technology to advance enough to get them back into space so they can go home. That's why these people don't even act like humans: they're not humans at all, they're just in
2021-07-11T19:19:22 < Laurenceb> disguise as humans.
2021-07-11T19:19:22 < Laurenceb> Elon Musk, too. That's why he's really building a 'Starship'; he'll secretly include his alien FTL drive system in it, insist on going on the maiden flight into 'orbit', and then mysteriously disappear when he actives the FTL drive and heads back to his home planet.
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2021-07-11T19:22:13 < ventyl> Laurenceb: then the alienest of them is that one Facebook guy
2021-07-11T19:22:20 < ventyl> it looks either as an alien, or evil android
2021-07-11T19:22:22 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-07-11T19:36:58 < mawk> markie zuckie
2021-07-11T19:51:03 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/igKqjUQS
2021-07-11T19:51:08 < Laurenceb> codez is working.. for now
2021-07-11T19:51:33 < Laurenceb> I worry there are som eedge cases where it might stall for ~20ms as the Kernel switches between clocking modes
2021-07-11T19:51:43 < Laurenceb> it passes all my test cases....
2021-07-11T19:52:05 < Laurenceb> rare 20ms stall probably wont be fatal, will need to test it in service
2021-07-11T19:52:47 < Laurenceb> getting 23kB/s throughput with <500us latency atm
2021-07-11T19:55:54 < Laurenceb> this system is basically emulating USB bulk over CAN 
2021-07-11T19:58:26 < Laurenceb> keekkkkk  https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49270.500
2021-07-11T19:58:40 < Laurenceb> https://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2021/04/response-to-tajmars-new-cavity-results.htmlhttps://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2021/04/response-to-tajmars-new-cavity-results.html
2021-07-11T20:01:13 < Laurenceb> he has really lost his marbles this time
2021-07-11T20:02:38 < Laurenceb> >At IAC 2021 Roger Shawyer will present a paper on his cryo superconducting CubeSat EmDrive with a 12.3N/kWe specific thrust.
2021-07-11T20:02:43 < Laurenceb> cool story bro
2021-07-11T20:03:39 < Laurenceb> like dude like what if ermm *smokes bong* what if we erm.. what if we took a magnet and put in space bro?!
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2021-07-11T20:18:13 < BrainDamage> 12N/W you should be able to take an AA battery and it'd have enough power to push it against your hand
2021-07-11T20:18:36 < BrainDamage> 12N/kW*
2021-07-11T20:19:23 < BrainDamage> that's the same force of 1g of mass with 1W
2021-07-11T20:19:48 < BrainDamage> don't even need a vacuum chamber
2021-07-11T20:32:38 < englishman> wait
2021-07-11T20:32:51 < englishman> are you saying you can experience 1g of force in earth gravity
2021-07-11T20:33:04 < BrainDamage> that's a pinch of salt
2021-07-11T20:33:50 < BrainDamage> so, yes
2021-07-11T20:33:58 < englishman> this magical 1g of force sounds like free energy
2021-07-11T20:34:16 < englishman> maybe we can use this force in reverse to generate electricity
2021-07-11T20:34:32 < englishman> such as this 1g of force of water acting on a turbine of some kind
2021-07-11T20:34:46 < BrainDamage> if the effiency was as they claimed, you could indeed make an overunity device
2021-07-11T20:35:19 < BrainDamage> too bad it's all bollocks
2021-07-11T20:35:31 < ventyl> the only drive, which was based on exotic physics, while still was sound in its foundation was MEGA
2021-07-11T20:35:38 < ventyl> sega megadrive
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2021-07-11T20:36:08 < englishman> and it certainly wasn't very efficient
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2021-07-11T20:36:51 < ventyl> it wasn't but it claimed, it doesn't need any propellant
2021-07-11T20:37:12 < ventyl> which puts it into league, where efficienty is of lesser interest
2021-07-11T20:37:20 < ventyl> s/ty/cy/
2021-07-11T20:38:25 < jpa-> in theory, any propellant-free electricity-only rocket engine would violate conservation of energy; just make a large wheel that spins fast enough so that   velocity * force >= input power
2021-07-11T20:39:42 < BrainDamage> except that if you use radiation pressure that relation becomes equal, not major
2021-07-11T20:40:43 < BrainDamage> and you need to use the relativistic velocity
2021-07-11T20:40:51 < BrainDamage> using gamma as correction factor
2021-07-11T20:41:40 < BrainDamage> the problem of that device is that it claims overunity efficiency for speeds less than 100km/h
2021-07-11T20:41:50 < BrainDamage> it's well within testable
2021-07-11T20:43:38 < ventyl> that's probably why they dragged new physics in
2021-07-11T20:46:32 < englishman> speaking of
2021-07-11T20:46:44 < englishman> is there a subatomic particle physics for dummies book
2021-07-11T20:46:57 < englishman> I tried going through the wiki pages but it's too much at one time
2021-07-11T20:47:16 < englishman> with many very similar, new words
2021-07-11T20:47:24 < BrainDamage> wiki for scientific subjects is good only if you know the material and need a refresher
2021-07-11T20:48:17 < BrainDamage> I don't know any decent book, but I remember a decent video on some key concepts that many get wrong
2021-07-11T20:48:39 < BrainDamage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7bzE1E5PMY
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2021-07-11T20:49:29 < englishman> thank you
2021-07-11T20:49:38 < ventyl> i really hope we have all of this wrong
2021-07-11T20:50:58 < ventyl> englishman: one really good book, which is not explicitly about subatomic particles, but I liked, is QED from Feynmann
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2021-07-11T21:06:44 < englishman> BrainDamage: that was a pretty good recap of 1st year physics, surprised I remembered most of that
2021-07-11T21:06:54 < englishman> thanks ventyl I'll look it up
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2021-07-11T21:52:26 < ColdKeyboard> Does anyone have a ASCII to HID Keyboard Page conversion snippet handy?
2021-07-11T21:52:39 < ColdKeyboard> Just checkin before I go ahead and start butchering my own. :)
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2021-07-11T22:07:09 < Laurenceb> lol Enlgand going to lose
2021-07-11T22:07:27 < Laurenceb> the team that is in the lead stupidly early on always loses in football
2021-07-11T22:09:58 < mawk> Laurenceb soccer expert
2021-07-11T22:11:17 < BrainDamage> fwiw everyone's dead silent here
2021-07-11T22:11:35 < BrainDamage> normally during a big soccer match you hear everyone shouting
2021-07-11T22:11:46 < mawk> here too
2021-07-11T22:14:57 < R2COM> smart people dont care about soccer
2021-07-11T22:17:47 < benishor> it's football, not soccer
2021-07-11T22:18:46 < ventyl> it is soccer, historically
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2021-07-11T22:37:54 < Steffanx> https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1414251043005816842?s=19 lol Laurenceb .. why you do this?
2021-07-11T22:38:20 < Steffanx> I've seen another one, but.. 😬😬
2021-07-11T22:48:19 < Laurenceb> lol Italy pwning England at this point
2021-07-11T22:48:25 < Laurenceb> they will equalise soon surely
2021-07-11T22:48:38 < Laurenceb> also
2021-07-11T22:48:45 < Laurenceb> >caring about shitball
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2021-07-11T23:17:25 < Steffanx> Watching part of it does not mean you care, Laurenceb 
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2021-07-11T23:19:08 < Steffanx> Those hooligans care way tooo much
2021-07-11T23:21:36 < R2COM> why no fucking markdown pdf exporter draw vertical lines in table by default
2021-07-11T23:22:09 < mouseghost> R2COM, its prettier that way
2021-07-11T23:29:13 < Steffanx> It's open sores. Fix it.
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--- Day changed Mon Jul 12 2021
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2021-07-12T01:06:53 < Laurenceb> what did I say?
2021-07-12T01:08:30 < BrainDamage> you had 50% chance to get it right
2021-07-12T01:10:53 < BrainDamage> there's better ways to do it
2021-07-12T01:10:55 < BrainDamage> take another event with finite possibilities and make some social media post from an unknown account listing all of them, months ahead
2021-07-12T01:10:56 < BrainDamage> then after the event happened, delete them
2021-07-12T01:10:57 < BrainDamage> I mean, delete the wrong ones
2021-07-12T01:10:58 < BrainDamage> and the right one with months ahead forecast will magically remain
2021-07-12T01:11:47 < Laurenceb> kek @ them trying to outwit the goalie
2021-07-12T01:11:58 < Laurenceb> >wait now I have ot kick towards the goal?!
2021-07-12T01:16:20 < BrainDamage> ok, the people switched from fireworks to high ordnance stuff
2021-07-12T01:17:00 < BrainDamage> my windows shaked
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2021-07-12T01:22:29 < Laurenceb> my dvbt tv has a delay of ~150ms
2021-07-12T01:22:33 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-07-12T01:22:58 < Laurenceb> neighbours must be using ... something else
2021-07-12T01:23:02 < Laurenceb> but its faster somehow
2021-07-12T01:25:21 < Laurenceb> oh wait
2021-07-12T01:25:29 < Laurenceb> its clearly running embedded lunix
2021-07-12T01:26:06 < karlp> congrats BrainDamage 
2021-07-12T01:32:36 < Steffanx> I'm not sure he cares
2021-07-12T01:33:33 < karlp> well, maybe a little :)
2021-07-12T01:33:54 < karlp> kinda funny that the interview area is in the rain...
2021-07-12T01:34:38 < BrainDamage> at least with world cup we get the roads in a giant party
2021-07-12T01:34:48 < BrainDamage> this feels a bit halfassed
2021-07-12T01:35:50 < karlp> I mean, it sonly euro cup...
2021-07-12T01:36:04 < karlp> maybe italy forgot it existed, haven't won it sinec 68?
2021-07-12T01:36:21 < BrainDamage> oh no, they are partying
2021-07-12T01:36:31 < BrainDamage> just not as hard as when we won world cup
2021-07-12T01:37:53 < BrainDamage> during that one I somehow ended up fucking in a street, and i've been told there was a literal orgy in a square not so far away ...
2021-07-12T01:38:09 < BrainDamage> but the details were a bit fuzzy
2021-07-12T01:38:23 < BrainDamage> didn't care for the win,but the parties were awesome
2021-07-12T01:38:51 < karlp> lol
2021-07-12T01:40:36 < BrainDamage> I was in univ too, so kind of perfect time to enjoy it
2021-07-12T01:45:03 < BrainDamage> i guess covid is to blame too
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2021-07-12T03:24:02 < mawk> I burnt my fingers with sodium hydroxide
2021-07-12T03:25:47 < mawk> they turned yellow
2021-07-12T03:25:53 < mawk> it's a nice color
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2021-07-12T05:35:12 < R2COM1> so i bought some app which shows as 
2021-07-12T05:35:21 < R2COM1> $9.99 in app store on apple
2021-07-12T05:35:46 < R2COM1> and it charges $17.46, and app is like shit and not as good... and you cant even refund on appstore on apple
2021-07-12T05:38:08 < R2COM1> err wait no...
2021-07-12T05:38:21 < R2COM1> its other shit, but, yeah if you bought some app and its shit you cant refund
2021-07-12T05:38:47 < R2COM1> I don't think its fair there should be something like 1hr window for refunds
2021-07-12T05:38:56 < R2COM1> Steam provides that for example for its games
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2021-07-12T08:44:55 < jpa-> R2COM: doesn't https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 work?
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2021-07-12T09:11:35 < R2COM> yeah it works for some subscription purchases, but not for one-time purchases
2021-07-12T09:11:49 < R2COM> um its 23:11 maybe time to go to bed
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2021-07-12T10:19:44 < mawk> with android you can refund
2021-07-12T10:19:51 < mawk> you should've get an android
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2021-07-12T14:34:57 < mawk> I ordered a blood test kit to know my blood group
2021-07-12T14:35:02 < mawk> I wonder if it's reliable
2021-07-12T14:35:07 < mawk> so I ordered 2 to see if they give the same result or not
2021-07-12T14:41:22 < tct> is the football thing over now>?
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2021-07-12T14:42:48 < specing> mawk: your doctor doesen't know?
2021-07-12T14:42:57 < mawk> yes tct 
2021-07-12T14:43:00 < mawk> no specing 
2021-07-12T14:43:03 < mawk> I don't have "my" doctor
2021-07-12T14:43:14 < mawk> it's semi-obligatory in France, but I never did it
2021-07-12T14:43:23 < mawk> like they make it more difficult for you to get the free healthcare without a designated doctor
2021-07-12T14:43:33 < mawk> but in paris it's only like big doctor mills and not real family doctors so I never took o,e
2021-07-12T14:43:35 < mawk> one*
2021-07-12T14:44:02 < mawk> and I'm not in paris anymore
2021-07-12T14:44:09 < mawk> I have a treating doctor in netherlands but he never saw me
2021-07-12T14:44:17 < Steffann> Swisserland did well too, tct. Congrats 
2021-07-12T14:44:30 < mawk> no
2021-07-12T14:44:32 < mawk> not congrats
2021-07-12T14:44:53 < tct> Steffann, I have no idea what that means 
2021-07-12T14:44:59 < mawk> in football
2021-07-12T14:45:06 < mawk> they beat frankreich
2021-07-12T14:45:25 < tct> I have zero frame of reference to know whether that is a hard thing to accomplish
2021-07-12T14:45:31 < mawk> yes it's hard
2021-07-12T14:46:07 < tct> alright
2021-07-12T14:46:15 < tct> so does the winner get like money or...?
2021-07-12T14:46:19 < tct> how does it work?
2021-07-12T14:46:31 < tct> or is it just one giant dick size comparison and nobody really wins
2021-07-12T14:48:11 < mawk> the winner gets fame
2021-07-12T14:48:20 < mawk> and if you win the world cup you get a star on your football jacket
2021-07-12T14:48:52 < tct> ok, so it's literally pointless
2021-07-12T14:49:23 < tct> what are those "it's coming home" memes that I see all over the place? are those related?
2021-07-12T14:49:36 < mawk> yes
2021-07-12T14:49:39 < mawk> england thought they would win
2021-07-12T14:49:47 < mawk> so some of them even did tattoos with the cup "it's coming home"
2021-07-12T14:49:49 < mawk> but they lost
2021-07-12T14:49:59 < mawk> also england fans have been horrible to other fans apparently
2021-07-12T14:50:10 < mawk> like harrassing little girls or something
2021-07-12T14:50:10 < tct> so what would be coming home? the star on the jacket? 
2021-07-12T14:50:14 < tct> lol wut
2021-07-12T14:50:16 < mawk> the cup
2021-07-12T14:50:18 < tct> laurencb detected
2021-07-12T14:50:18 < mawk> no the star is for world cup
2021-07-12T14:50:23 < mawk> this was the euro
2021-07-12T14:50:32 < tct> ah
2021-07-12T14:50:41 < tct> but wait - didn't leave england the euro?
2021-07-12T14:50:54 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-12T14:50:58 < mawk> but they're still in europe
2021-07-12T14:51:01 < mawk> so they play the euro competition
2021-07-12T14:51:08 < mawk> we also have israël in the eurovision song contest
2021-07-12T14:51:11 < mawk> so why not england in the euro
2021-07-12T14:51:16 < tct> ah, I see
2021-07-12T14:51:34 < tct> but again - you literally get nothing out of this?
2021-07-12T14:51:38 < Steffann> Fame.
2021-07-12T14:51:40 < tct> it's just pointless wasting of money?
2021-07-12T14:51:43 < Steffann> And probably some munny
2021-07-12T14:51:52 < mawk> it brings people together to drink and beat their wives
2021-07-12T14:51:53 < tct> more than you put in?
2021-07-12T14:51:58 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-12T14:51:59 < mawk> with sponsoring
2021-07-12T14:52:04 < mawk> it brings money to the organizers
2021-07-12T14:52:05 < mawk> and the players
2021-07-12T14:52:16 < tct> > beating wifes
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2021-07-12T14:53:04 < Laurenceb> lollll
2021-07-12T14:53:09 < mawk> here's the wolf
2021-07-12T14:53:11 < mawk> when you mention him
2021-07-12T14:53:15 < Laurenceb> hyperwan guys charge extra for private dns
2021-07-12T14:53:18 < Laurenceb> epin fail
2021-07-12T14:53:28 < Steffann> Mawk = Laurenceb confirmed.
2021-07-12T14:53:33 < mawk> :(
2021-07-12T14:53:48 < Steffann> Congratulations on the loss Laurenceb  
2021-07-12T14:53:51 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-07-12T14:53:59 < Laurenceb> who cares about sportsball
2021-07-12T14:54:07 < Steffann> You. You watched it
2021-07-12T14:54:40 < tct> how does it work - does the queen also watch it?
2021-07-12T14:54:43 < tct> or boris?
2021-07-12T14:54:45 < tct> did boris watch it?
2021-07-12T14:54:53 < tct> did boris watch it with the queen?
2021-07-12T14:55:00 < tct> did they penis exchange?
2021-07-12T14:58:26 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2021-07-12T15:00:37 < Steffann> The did something else tct
2021-07-12T15:00:47 < Steffann> Let me find you the dumpert.nl link
2021-07-12T15:01:49 < Steffann> Soon. Meeting time
2021-07-12T15:11:29 < mawk> BrainDamage: https://www.chemie.tu-darmstadt.de/media/ak_fessner/damocles_pdf/2014_1/Methadon.pdf
2021-07-12T15:11:32 < mawk> the synthesis is page 3
2021-07-12T15:11:38 < mawk> there aren't many steps
2021-07-12T15:11:44 < mawk> maybe when I'm rich I'll try
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2021-07-12T15:14:10 < mawk> if I don't end up like the "frozen addicts"
2021-07-12T15:14:45 < mawk> https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/395849
2021-07-12T15:15:33 < BrainDamage> tct: there's a craplo of money involved about transmission rights and advertising slots adjacent to the show
2021-07-12T15:16:09 < mawk> I wonder what the cops would say
2021-07-12T15:16:21 < mawk> "uh yeah so I'm a big fan of DIY so I decided to make my own treatment, that's not illegal right?"
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2021-07-12T15:39:16 < Steffann> Tct are you ready?
2021-07-12T15:39:56 < Steffann> https://www.dumpert.nl/item/100004252_ef7c1ea2 crazy britbong soccerball fan NSFW ish
2021-07-12T15:40:44 < tct> Steffann, are these dutch people?
2021-07-12T15:40:52 < Mangy_Dog> nsfw ... ish?
2021-07-12T15:40:58 < Mangy_Dog> id say this is pretty very NSFW
2021-07-12T15:41:09 < Mangy_Dog> tct sadly no
2021-07-12T15:41:10 < tct> not at my work
2021-07-12T15:41:22 < Mangy_Dog> this are thick as shit brits
2021-07-12T15:41:27 < Mangy_Dog> im very sorry
2021-07-12T15:42:06 < mawk> is it the fireworks butt thing Steffann ?
2021-07-12T15:42:23 < tct> mawk, yes
2021-07-12T15:42:26 < tct> with balls
2021-07-12T15:42:28 < tct> no penis tho
2021-07-12T15:42:34 < tct> so you might not be interested
2021-07-12T15:44:31 < mawk> :(
2021-07-12T15:44:43 < tct> :'D
2021-07-12T15:44:54 < tct> I'm starting to like you
2021-07-12T15:46:22 < mawk> of course
2021-07-12T15:46:24 < mawk> everyone does
2021-07-12T15:46:33 < mawk> even karlp 
2021-07-12T15:47:42 < tct> I'm impressed
2021-07-12T15:50:52 < mawk> also it's reciprocal, I like everyone
2021-07-12T15:54:49 < tct> I don't like cats
2021-07-12T15:55:13 < tct> their behavior is indistinguishable from English football fans
2021-07-12T15:56:46 < mawk> lol
2021-07-12T15:56:51 < mawk> I like cats
2021-07-12T16:09:27 < tct> that's okay. I respect that.
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2021-07-12T16:14:29 < mawk> my cat weighs 5.5kg
2021-07-12T16:19:24 < tct> does blaxter have a cat?
2021-07-12T16:24:22 < englishman> blaxter also hates cats
2021-07-12T16:24:41 < BrainDamage> he hates many things
2021-07-12T16:24:59 < BrainDamage> not as many as r2commie or cracki tho
2021-07-12T16:28:21 < englishman> lil'dongs got scared of a chair yesterday
2021-07-12T16:29:01 < englishman> also, when forced to choose between grass or delicious wet food from a can, he chooses grass
2021-07-12T17:07:06 -!- GenTooMan [~cyberman@2601:547:437f:e5c6:21f:5bff:fefe:a883] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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2021-07-12T17:10:43 < tct> did r2com not migrate to libera yet?
2021-07-12T17:13:15 < Steffann> He did 
2021-07-12T17:15:41 < sauce> yes we all got to enjoy his rants a couple days ago
2021-07-12T17:16:00 < tct> what happened? 
2021-07-12T17:16:08 < sauce> oh just the usual
2021-07-12T17:16:43 < mawk> he's a nice guy
2021-07-12T17:16:45 < mawk> just a bit racist
2021-07-12T17:16:59 < mawk> and a bit too strong opinions on "communism" and "open sores"
2021-07-12T17:17:05 < mawk> although I got him to install debian
2021-07-12T17:18:17 < tct> I got him to switch to FreeBSD :p
2021-07-12T17:18:22 < tct> #achievement
2021-07-12T17:18:22 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-12T17:18:55 < mawk> tct :(
2021-07-12T17:19:09 < mawk> did you name your cat dongs englishman ?
2021-07-12T17:20:07 < tct> is there any channel on libera that relates to web development, but the actual HTTP stuff and everything, not simple javascript fuckery? I have an HTTP server which returns a cookie. I see it showing up in the browser but it doesn't show up when navigating to other pages on the same domain. Path is not present.
2021-07-12T17:20:37 < mawk> yes ##stm32 is suitable for this
2021-07-12T17:20:38 < englishman> mawk: lil'dongs
2021-07-12T17:20:39 < mawk> just ask me
2021-07-12T17:20:46 < tct> alright, please help then :p
2021-07-12T17:20:46 < mawk> what if he becomes huge englishman 
2021-07-12T17:20:50 < englishman> he is
2021-07-12T17:20:53 < mawk> lol
2021-07-12T17:20:55 < mawk> how much does he weigh?
2021-07-12T17:21:02 < mawk> my cat was 7kg but I got her down to 5.5kg
2021-07-12T17:21:05 < mawk> she still looks big
2021-07-12T17:21:16 < englishman> 5.5kg but it's the flouf that takes up space
2021-07-12T17:21:25 < mawk> show the set-cookie line you're using tct 
2021-07-12T17:22:12 < mawk> lol englishman 
2021-07-12T17:22:51 < mawk> also how do you look if it's sent or not on other pages tct ?
2021-07-12T17:23:09 < tct> mawk, just sec on cookie line
2021-07-12T17:23:13 < mawk> also path is required tct I think
2021-07-12T17:23:23 < mawk> just put path=/ to catch everything
2021-07-12T17:23:23 < tct> mawk, I use the developer tools in the browser. I see the cookie shortly flashing up in there, then it loads the next page and it's gone
2021-07-12T17:23:32 < tct> mawk, I tried path=/ before, same result
2021-07-12T17:23:39 < mawk> is it http website?
2021-07-12T17:23:55 < tct> mawk, yes. this is a login page with a username+password form. On submit the server returns a session cookie.
2021-07-12T17:23:57 < mawk> modern browser won't send cookies if not https I think
2021-07-12T17:24:04 < tct> they do on localhost
2021-07-12T17:24:06 < tct> I checked that :p
2021-07-12T17:24:35 < mawk> yeah on localhost
2021-07-12T17:24:42 < mawk> do you have samesite=lax ?
2021-07-12T17:25:03 < mawk> do put "secure" anyway
2021-07-12T17:25:08 < mawk> it will work with localhost
2021-07-12T17:25:15 < tct> sessionId=hmsfxpvmwolmyeexfexdgccucfzfvmez; Secure; HttpOnly; SameSite=Strict; Domain=127.0.0.1
2021-07-12T17:25:34 < tct> Secure also works on localhost on plain text connections according to MDN
2021-07-12T17:25:39 < mawk> do you use javascript fuckery to load the cookie?
2021-07-12T17:25:59 < tct> no
2021-07-12T17:26:02 < mawk> what's wrong with samesite=lax ?
2021-07-12T17:26:06 < tct> C++ on server end, just regular chrome on client side
2021-07-12T17:27:20 < mawk> mdn says it works for localhost in firefox tct but you say you're using chrome
2021-07-12T17:27:46 < tct> true
2021-07-12T17:28:06 < mawk> but I don't think you can remove secure anymore
2021-07-12T17:28:22 < mawk> it would surprize me if chrome localhost couldn't set cookies though
2021-07-12T17:28:24 < mawk> let me check
2021-07-12T17:29:00 < mawk> yeah it works with chrome too
2021-07-12T17:29:03 < mawk> try samesite=lax
2021-07-12T17:30:38 < fenugrec> xlax
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2021-07-12T17:33:07 < tct> mawk, will try later, have to disappear into something quickly - thanks for the help so far!
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2021-07-12T17:49:32 < spacebyte> Hi all. Not sure if the best to place ask but: On a u-blox gps device I'm seeing a 1s difference between the time reported by NMEA ZDA and UBX NAV-TIMEUTC message
2021-07-12T17:49:39 < spacebyte> is this a misconfiguration?
2021-07-12T17:56:27 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: does the device have a 3D fix?
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2021-07-12T18:11:41 < spacebyte> yes. I have around 9 satelites
2021-07-12T18:11:49 < spacebyte> hdop and accuracy and not the best though
2021-07-12T18:11:54 < spacebyte> are not*
2021-07-12T18:12:39 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: I would probably try running "gpsd" on a regular computer in both NMEA and TIMEUTC modes to see if gpsd sees the time difference too.
2021-07-12T18:12:55 < PaulFertser> s/TIMEUTC/UBX/
2021-07-12T18:13:22 < PaulFertser> As gpsd is tested a lot as a time source with UBX devices.
2021-07-12T18:16:44 < spacebyte> where can I check gpsd's output?
2021-07-12T18:17:02 < spacebyte> I'm running "gpsd /dev/blabla"
2021-07-12T18:17:49 < BrainDamage> gpsmon
2021-07-12T18:17:54 < BrainDamage> as sep program
2021-07-12T18:21:48 < spacebyte> I see nothing on gpsmon.
2021-07-12T18:22:02 < spacebyte> Hm but after starting gpsd I can't find its PID so not sure it is really running
2021-07-12T18:22:32 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: start it in debug mode then
2021-07-12T18:22:35 < BrainDamage> use -N so it doesn't fork into background
2021-07-12T18:22:36 < PaulFertser> In fg
2021-07-12T18:23:10 < spacebyte> -N did it
2021-07-12T18:23:29 < spacebyte> hm it's trying to use a tcp port instead. Let me check the arguments again
2021-07-12T18:29:11 < spacebyte> hm can't get it working
2021-07-12T18:29:15 < spacebyte> gpsd /dev/ttyACM0 -N
2021-07-12T18:29:31 < spacebyte> gpsd:ERROR: can't bind to IPv4 port gpsd, Address already in use
2021-07-12T18:29:31 < spacebyte> gpsd:ERROR: maybe gpsd is already running!
2021-07-12T18:29:31 < spacebyte> gpsd:ERROR: can't bind to IPv6 port gpsd, Address already in use
2021-07-12T18:29:31 < spacebyte> gpsd:ERROR: maybe gpsd is already running!
2021-07-12T18:29:31 < spacebyte> gpsd:ERROR: command sockets creation failed, netlib errors -1, -
2021-07-12T18:29:42 < spacebyte> I check and there's no gpsd running prior to the command
2021-07-12T18:29:56 < spacebyte> checked*
2021-07-12T18:30:35 < BrainDamage> change port then
2021-07-12T18:30:36 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: probably you have socket activation by systemd?
2021-07-12T18:30:59 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: systemctl disable gpsd.socket
2021-07-12T18:31:51 < BrainDamage> you might have to mask it instead
2021-07-12T18:33:11 < spacebyte> that was it, thanks
2021-07-12T18:34:26 < spacebyte> when trying s/TIMEUTC/UBX/ I get a "only allowd in low level mode"
2021-07-12T18:34:35 < spacebyte> sorry guys, really newb in gps stuff
2021-07-12T18:40:42 < PaulFertser> spacebyte: if you just start gpsd it's likely autodetecting the device is capable and switches to UBX.
2021-07-12T18:41:18 < spacebyte> Yes I see both nmea and ubx on gpsmon. Still the fields Time and Time GPS are empty
2021-07-12T18:41:45 < spacebyte> hm probably not sending the right messages to usb, let me check u-center
2021-07-12T18:52:53 < tct> mawk, ping
2021-07-12T18:52:58 < mawk> yes
2021-07-12T18:53:24 < mawk> I'm always here tct
2021-07-12T18:55:55 < tct> how are you?
2021-07-12T18:56:20 < mawk> feeling like shit
2021-07-12T18:56:23 < mawk> like every day
2021-07-12T18:56:33 < mawk> since a month or so
2021-07-12T18:56:40 < mawk> when my cunt doctor decreased my candy dosage
2021-07-12T18:56:41 < mawk> and you?
2021-07-12T18:57:58 < tct> similar, probably different reasons tho
2021-07-12T18:58:00 < tct> thanks for asking.
2021-07-12T18:58:05 < tct> I hope that you will feel better soon
2021-07-12T18:59:07 < mawk> maybe in a few more months
2021-07-12T18:59:22 < mawk> is it because of the gf?
2021-07-12T18:59:44 < mawk> I learnt that "spontaneous orgasm" is one effect of candy withdrawal
2021-07-12T18:59:47 < mawk> that sounds like fun
2021-07-12T18:59:59 < tct> what do you mean by candy?
2021-07-12T19:00:11 < mawk> pain killers
2021-07-12T19:10:44 < Steffann> Lolwut?
2021-07-12T19:11:40 < Steffann> What else are you on mawk?
2021-07-12T19:11:50 < mawk> nothing
2021-07-12T19:11:55 < mawk> just the methadone
2021-07-12T19:12:00 < BrainDamage> https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.364133423.5746/flat,800x800,070,f.u6.jpg
2021-07-12T19:12:04 < mawk> which is a pain killer
2021-07-12T19:12:20 < mawk> lol BrainDamage 
2021-07-12T19:12:41 < mawk> I snorted vicodin before but it's not that good and it hurts
2021-07-12T19:13:38 < Steffann> I only know vicodin because House MD
2021-07-12T19:14:51 < Steffann> Wasn't the doctor supposed to lower the dose mr mawk?
2021-07-12T19:15:03 < mawk> yes Steffann 
2021-07-12T19:15:06 < mawk> but I don't want
2021-07-12T19:15:34 < BrainDamage> the doctor's not the one feeling shit because of withdrawal
2021-07-12T19:15:44 < Steffann> They should lower the dose without telling you
2021-07-12T19:15:45 < BrainDamage> at the same time mawk is not the one paying for it
2021-07-12T19:15:54 < BrainDamage> so 🤷
2021-07-12T19:16:02 < mawk> yes I pay for it
2021-07-12T19:16:08 < Steffann> Me too
2021-07-12T19:16:18 < mawk> I pay insurance, and then I pay the eigen risico shit on the med so I end up double paying
2021-07-12T19:16:29 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2021-07-12T19:17:01 < Steffanx> Heh, you're probably over the own risk limit already 
2021-07-12T19:17:06 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2021-07-12T19:20:59 < mawk> no I computed it Steffanx 
2021-07-12T19:21:03 < mawk> I'm like 10€ below
2021-07-12T19:21:05 < mawk> worthless insurance
2021-07-12T19:21:39 < Steffanx> You should be able to see it on some online portal of your insurance company 
2021-07-12T19:21:56 < Steffanx> Isnt it 385. Then methadone is cheaper than I expected 
2021-07-12T19:22:23 < mawk> methadone is 360€/year
2021-07-12T19:22:35 < mawk> it was 1440€/year in france
2021-07-12T19:22:47 < mawk> 66% paid by the state, 34% paid by my private insurance
2021-07-12T19:23:07 < mawk> the state makes the methadone in France
2021-07-12T19:23:13 < mawk> maybe that's why it's more expensive
2021-07-12T19:25:21 < tct> fucking github actions CI shittery - out of memory all the time.
2021-07-12T19:28:26 < BrainDamage> it's a pipeline to continously emit an infinitely long turd
2021-07-12T19:30:24 < Steffanx> I always thought mr tct was into bitbucket.
2021-07-12T19:30:31 < Steffanx> What happened 
2021-07-12T19:30:38 < Steffanx> Microsoft?
2021-07-12T19:31:23 < tct> public project
2021-07-12T19:31:30 < tct> I haven't used bitbucket in years
2021-07-12T19:31:39 < tct> either github for public stuff or self hosted
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2021-07-12T19:56:44 < Steffanx> Alright 
2021-07-12T20:15:57 < englishman> interesting insight into the cost of addiction
2021-07-12T20:17:43 < englishman> apparently vancouver consumes a quarter million naloxone kits every year
2021-07-12T20:18:16 < englishman> so 12 million dollars a year to keep junkies alive
2021-07-12T20:19:20 < englishman> 250k doses per year seems high for a city of 4 million. maybe that is the number of kits sold not necessarily used
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2021-07-12T21:02:41 < machinehum> Hello
2021-07-12T21:09:46 < BrainDamage> https://i.imgur.com/ReSaFah.jpg
2021-07-12T21:10:33 < machinehum> Nice, you make it?
2021-07-12T21:10:45 < BrainDamage> nope
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2021-07-12T21:14:52 < englishman> love it
2021-07-12T21:26:18 -!- dima [~dima@kappa.ac93.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
2021-07-12T21:27:02 < Steffanx> heh
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2021-07-12T22:55:28 < ventyl> another chinesium broken in a completely unexpected way
2021-07-12T22:59:34 < Steffanx> uuh what mr ventyl?
2021-07-12T23:04:03 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@176-93-100-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-12T23:06:23 < ventyl> well, floor wipe
2021-07-12T23:06:33 < ventyl> that kind, which has built in squeezer
2021-07-12T23:07:06 < ventyl> first, sponge fell off frame which is supposed to hold it, then subframe holding squeezer assembly broke
2021-07-12T23:07:10 < ventyl> at fifth use
2021-07-12T23:11:26 < kakium69> hello nightium
2021-07-12T23:29:57 < Steffanx> lol ventyl, did it hurt in your wallet?
2021-07-12T23:30:07 < Steffanx> and  welcome kakium69, early nighter.
2021-07-12T23:30:23 < kakium69> hello steff69
2021-07-12T23:30:54 < kakium69> not mopeding tonight
2021-07-12T23:31:07 < kakium69> kinda getting bored
2021-07-12T23:31:51 < kakium69> how is .nl?
2021-07-12T23:32:10 < kakium69> +50C apocalyptic hellscape?
2021-07-12T23:33:20 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-12T23:33:20 < Laurenceb> arggg wtf socketcan
2021-07-12T23:33:31 < Laurenceb> >setting 0 socketcan filters turns off the socketcan
2021-07-12T23:33:33 < Laurenceb> wtd lunix
2021-07-12T23:36:42 < Laurenceb> I'm going to have to create a new filter called "not_a_filter" with mask of 0x00
2021-07-12T23:36:45 < Laurenceb> the state of this
2021-07-12T23:37:24 < Laurenceb> fail level: Rashford
2021-07-12T23:47:33 < Steffanx> More like 22C, kakium69 . 25 inside
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2021-07-12T23:58:32 < kakium69> https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=temp/orthographic
--- Day changed Tue Jul 13 2021
2021-07-13T00:02:00 < kakium69> the heck it's cold in spain, france and uk
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2021-07-13T00:08:01 < kakium69> englishman seems to have 29C
2021-07-13T00:08:26 < kakium69> same as day temperature here today
2021-07-13T00:12:47 < englishman> yes v nice
2021-07-13T00:12:51 < englishman> moto weather
2021-07-13T00:13:08 < englishman> not too windy either, or humid
2021-07-13T00:13:14 < kakium69> same
2021-07-13T00:13:28 < kakium69> very dry and all
2021-07-13T00:14:58 < kakium69> you bought moto?
2021-07-13T00:15:39 < kakium69> or repaired something that was covered in dust in hay barn?
2021-07-13T00:17:23 < Steffanx> What is not too humid in kakiterms?
2021-07-13T00:21:42 < kakium69> clear skies
2021-07-13T00:23:19 < kakium69> when it's +30c and sky is clear it's absolutelly dry
2021-07-13T00:25:19 < kakium69> couple of cumulus clouds in late afternoon and thats all
2021-07-13T00:25:30 < mawk> dicks
2021-07-13T00:28:18 < PaulFertser> kakium69: 30 here and I'd say fucking too hot for riding 
2021-07-13T00:29:33 < kakium69> it's the perfect weather for riding wearing just boxers
2021-07-13T00:29:46 < kakium69> and helmet that is legally required
2021-07-13T00:30:17 < kakium69> not that I have done that I would not dare
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2021-07-13T00:31:22 < PaulFertser> I ride in my full gear :/
2021-07-13T00:36:15 < mawk> yeah I prefer to keep on some clothes during sex as well
2021-07-13T00:38:32 < kakium69> full gear is too hot in any weather above +10c
2021-07-13T00:38:38 < englishman> kakium69: i have the same moto that i've had for 18 years
2021-07-13T00:38:51 < kakium69> suzuki dr?
2021-07-13T00:39:05 < englishman> others have come and gone but i kept this one, probably because it's not worth it to sell
2021-07-13T00:39:10 < englishman> 1977 suzuki gs400
2021-07-13T00:39:47 < kakium69> have you cafe'ed it?
2021-07-13T00:39:53 < englishman> no it is completely original
2021-07-13T00:40:12 < englishman> i had to submit photos to the licensing agency to prove it was original enough to get antique plates
2021-07-13T00:40:38 < kakium69> :o
2021-07-13T00:41:01 < kakium69> do you get tax benefit with antique plates in canadistan?
2021-07-13T00:41:10 < englishman> it just costs less
2021-07-13T00:41:21 < kakium69> km limit?
2021-07-13T00:41:29 < englishman> depends on the province
2021-07-13T00:41:51 < englishman> you are less likely to become a meat crayon on an antique moto so insurance is cheaper
2021-07-13T00:42:24 < kakium69> mmmm.. meat
2021-07-13T00:46:06 < Steffanx> 25.6C, 73.9% ... I love it
2021-07-13T00:46:30 < kakium69> 74% still in ok range
2021-07-13T00:46:37 < Steffanx> Fuck no
2021-07-13T00:46:54 < kakium69> ;)
2021-07-13T00:47:14 < kakium69> maybe 50% is the limit?
2021-07-13T00:47:26 < Steffanx> Pretty much 
2021-07-13T00:48:37 < Steffanx> Did you ever fall with your bike, mr kakium69 ?
2021-07-13T00:48:45 < kakium69> apparently during nights that are getting now gradually chiller humidity goes to 99
2021-07-13T00:49:09 < kakium69> there is still no clear signs of such moisture outside
2021-07-13T00:49:15 < kakium69> moite
2021-07-13T00:49:41 < kakium69> Steffanx: I leave it for others
2021-07-13T00:49:57 < kakium69> I only fall on other people's bikes
2021-07-13T00:50:35 < kakium69> prefferably in 10seconds after they let me test the bike
2021-07-13T00:50:43 < kakium69> true story
2021-07-13T00:52:07 < kakium69> in thin jeans and t-shirt yes
2021-07-13T00:54:11 < kakium69> he took the bike and I went bleed all around my car
2021-07-13T00:54:48 < kakium69> next time I saw him I gave him money for what repairs had cost him
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2021-07-13T00:58:00 < kakium69> I didn't expect the acceleration so the corner was actually just couple of seconds away and I went in with full throttle to realize I was running out of road
2021-07-13T01:05:19 < kakium69> that is stuff what happens when somebody who wants to try your bike says "I can totally handle it"
2021-07-13T01:07:09 < kakium69> it mean they have no idea
2021-07-13T01:18:17 < machinehum> I asked here before but I'm going to ask again
2021-07-13T01:18:30 < machinehum> Does anyone know what these connectors are called on the PCB
2021-07-13T01:18:33 < machinehum> https://preview.redd.it/9xljz7abhd471.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=e064e6ee179f69745425b5be46ad9b260434633a
2021-07-13T01:18:52 < machinehum> I want to design something similar, but have no clue where to start
2021-07-13T01:19:04 < aandrew> didn't you already post that to reddit and get a bunch of responses?
2021-07-13T01:19:16 < machinehum> Yeah nobody provided an answer
2021-07-13T01:19:27 < machinehum> They just talked about how sketchy it was
2021-07-13T01:19:58 < aandrew> I remember a few answers
2021-07-13T01:20:01 < aandrew> can't find the damn post now
2021-07-13T01:20:02 < machinehum> https://old.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/nwfqet/what_are_these_guys_called_the_th_metal_guys_that/
2021-07-13T01:20:22 < machinehum> "Terminals"
2021-07-13T01:20:27 < machinehum> MY MAN
2021-07-13T01:20:44 < aandrew> yeah that's not helpful
2021-07-13T01:20:46 < machinehum> And then one reference to a Sweedish band
2021-07-13T01:21:20 < machinehum> I mean the answer is it's a custom chinese part that came out of a mould, but TE or someone has to build something similar
2021-07-13T01:22:21 < kakium69> it came out of press
2021-07-13T01:22:40 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2021-07-13T01:23:14 < machinehum> I woudn't be apposed to "Direct connection from the mains blade to the PCB." option, but where do I buy those connectors?
2021-07-13T01:23:15 < aandrew> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001519536848.html or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002067204875.html is getting close, but not there yet
2021-07-13T01:23:43 < aandrew> I love spade terminals for this kind of thing personally. "faston" is the magic keyword for that, but they're not what you're showing in that pic
2021-07-13T01:24:44 < machinehum> Wire from the board crimped to the faston, faston plugged into the mains blade?
2021-07-13T01:25:17 < aandrew> no, the other way. the mains plug has wire soldered to it internally, wire crimped to female spade/faston, faston on PCB
2021-07-13T01:26:01 < machinehum> https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/keystone-electronics/1287/124268?utm_adgroup=Terminals%20-%20Quick%20Connects%2C%20Quick%20Disconnect%20Connectors&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Connectors%2C%20Interconnects&utm_term=&productid=124268&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGgow7IEpNJFlxIKXfBLgw0czzG-DFkqaFOWZ0b8YTL76T8UJF9qoRAaAoSxEALw_wcB
2021-07-13T01:26:07 < machinehum> Plugs into that guy?
2021-07-13T01:26:10 < machinehum> I like that
2021-07-13T01:26:16 < aandrew> yes
2021-07-13T01:26:20 < aandrew> I love those
2021-07-13T01:26:35 < machinehum> Yeah sure I mean that seems way less janky
2021-07-13T01:26:43 < aandrew> you can get the insulated female part, any monkey can crimp them and they can take a LOT of abuse
2021-07-13T01:26:55 < aandrew> I have those in literally thousands of commercial dishwashers
2021-07-13T01:27:13 < machinehum> swag
2021-07-13T01:28:01 < machinehum> The only problem is those mains blade contacts are insert moulded over, so you would have to do some soldering after near plastic
2021-07-13T01:28:10 < machinehum> Not a huge deal, but another step
2021-07-13T01:28:20 < aandrew> they're cheap as hell too. I really like the minifit-jr and microfit-iii from molex if you need more pins and idiot-proofness
2021-07-13T01:28:42 < aandrew> yeah, and finding a decent mains plug is actually quite difficult IME
2021-07-13T01:29:12 < aandrew> ooh
2021-07-13T01:29:30 < aandrew> aliexpress was a bust, but "metal contact mains" gave me some immediately better results
2021-07-13T01:29:39 < aandrew> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Metal-Contacts-Precision-Socket-Copper-Parts_1600240834400.html
2021-07-13T01:29:42 < machinehum> I wonder if this... tinyurl.com/88fvbt8z w/ the female connector somehow build into the mains blade
2021-07-13T01:29:43 < aandrew> not exactly what you want but getting warmer
2021-07-13T01:30:15 < aandrew> yeah I hear ya -- they ahve the US style plug on one end and internally just have that at the right thickness/size/shape
2021-07-13T01:30:38 < aandrew> then you can get some kid to crimp 2" wires with shielded female ends on each end and you're off to the races
2021-07-13T01:30:41 < aandrew> what're you building anyway?
2021-07-13T01:31:42 < aandrew> "american metal contact stamping" on alibaba seems to get you in the right direction too
2021-07-13T01:31:53 < aandrew> best is to find a half dozen and open conversations and they'll build it exactly to your spec
2021-07-13T01:32:05 < machinehum> https://machinehum.medium.com/im-putting-a-wifi-router-into-a-wall-charger-part-0-2c1e1a80ccde
2021-07-13T01:32:51 < aandrew> isn't this something that exists from tplink and dlink and a half dozen other sources already, or is this more as a personal project?
2021-07-13T01:33:12 < aandrew> ahh
2021-07-13T01:33:17 < aandrew> you want to make it a trojan horse
2021-07-13T01:33:18 < aandrew> gotcha
2021-07-13T01:33:26 < machinehum> Security yeah
2021-07-13T01:33:31 < machinehum> Can't look like a router
2021-07-13T01:33:57 < aandrew> if you want to fit it into soemthing small forget fastons and crimps
2021-07-13T01:34:04 < machinehum> Surprisingly well recived by the security community
2021-07-13T01:34:09 < aandrew> you need a US-style plug that connects directly to the PCB
2021-07-13T01:34:39 < machinehum> Yeah I'm not apposed to that
2021-07-13T01:37:56 < machinehum> Oh shit
2021-07-13T01:37:58 < machinehum> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/stamping-copper-contact-sheet-custom-adapter_60560706120.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.3aed6ea10VdkAo
2021-07-13T01:38:00 < machinehum> Kicad
2021-07-13T01:38:02 < machinehum> Kinda* lol
2021-07-13T01:38:29 < machinehum> I could just screw some shit down, blade slides in
2021-07-13T01:39:12 < machinehum> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Custom-Made-Metal-Stamping-Nickel-Plated_1600249923926.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.3aed6ea10VdkAo
2021-07-13T01:39:14 < machinehum> see
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2021-07-13T01:44:35 < aandrew> machinehum: https://www.heyco.com/Power_Components/pdf/PCB-Contacts.pdf
2021-07-13T01:45:17 < machinehum> I don't have right angle entry
2021-07-13T01:45:24 < aandrew> so what
2021-07-13T01:45:40 < aandrew> now you have two PCBs; one for the contacts with a more traditional board-to-board right-angle connector to the main PCB
2021-07-13T01:46:11 < aandrew> or even better, make your super tiny galvanically-isolated power supply on the board that plugs in, then just gives 1.8/3.3/whatever to the logic board through a traditional connector
2021-07-13T01:47:37 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/groBctg
2021-07-13T01:47:49 < machinehum> Ideally those contacts just have a little right angle bend
2021-07-13T01:48:03 < aandrew> yep but I'm not finding them. I know exactly what you mean
2021-07-13T01:48:16 < machinehum> Thanks for the link BTW
2021-07-13T01:48:20 < machinehum> That's super close
2021-07-13T01:49:53 < machinehum> I could do some jank fucking cutout of the edge of the board
2021-07-13T01:50:02 < machinehum> That would be exciting
2021-07-13T01:53:31 < aandrew>  heh no problem
2021-07-13T01:53:39 < aandrew> I'm done though... gotta get back to my own work :-)
2021-07-13T01:55:36 < machinehum> Yeah np
2021-07-13T01:55:36 < machinehum> I might email these Heyco people
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2021-07-13T05:07:53 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-07-13T05:07:54 < Laurenceb> printf("%X,%X,%d\n",can_array[n].can_id&(~CAN_INV_FILTER),id,can_array[n].can_id&(~CAN_INV_FILTER)==id);
2021-07-13T05:08:09 < Laurenceb> 7,7,0
2021-07-13T05:08:12 < Laurenceb> ^how?
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2021-07-13T06:00:27 < Laurenceb> aha parentheses
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2021-07-13T06:25:02 < R2COM> what is best open source block diagram editor which can work with .svg natively
2021-07-13T06:27:07 < R2COM> (aside from inkscape which is hard and seems more like pro draw tool rather than quick&easy block diagram crafter)
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2021-07-13T06:33:56 < R2COM> meh inkscape is best i think
2021-07-13T06:34:06 < R2COM> every other program is abandoned old trash
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2021-07-13T07:07:42 < R2COM> oh bow that sucks still overly complex program, i wish LibreOffice Draw could natively work with .svg
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2021-07-13T13:23:13 < Laurenceb> anyone here use lunix socket message passing?
2021-07-13T13:24:10 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/wyZ0PGuQ
2021-07-13T13:24:21 < Laurenceb> I tried to copy candump, but no messages coming through
2021-07-13T13:24:27 < mouseghost> Laurenceb, huh?
2021-07-13T13:24:50 < Laurenceb> I get can frames using that method, works nicely
2021-07-13T13:25:10 < Laurenceb> but the timestamps arent populated, unlike candump where i copied the sores from 
2021-07-13T13:25:16 < Laurenceb> obviously something missing...
2021-07-13T13:25:28 < Laurenceb> I applied SO_TIMESTAMP to the socket before binding
2021-07-13T13:25:29  * mouseghost doesnt follow
2021-07-13T13:26:08 < Laurenceb> mouseghost: you can "attach" auxiliary data to Linux socket data as it passes through the Kernel
2021-07-13T13:26:26 < mouseghost> oh
2021-07-13T13:26:47 < mouseghost> why is it called can tho
2021-07-13T13:30:06 < mouseghost> i can be your rubber ducky
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2021-07-13T13:40:21 < Steffanx> CAN, mouseghost ;)
2021-07-13T13:40:36 < mouseghost> yeah but like
2021-07-13T13:40:41 < mouseghost> im confused what we are even talking about
2021-07-13T13:40:51 < mouseghost> is this canbus or is this some internal linux kernel shit
2021-07-13T13:41:03 < qyx> linux socketcan
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2021-07-13T13:41:15 < qyx> it is regular canbus linux kernel sjit
2021-07-13T13:41:24 < mouseghost> why canbus
2021-07-13T13:41:28 < mouseghost> i dont understand
2021-07-13T13:42:03 < qyx> I would say he wants to use can
2021-07-13T13:43:06 < mouseghost> i feel that he spent like a lot on trying to unfuck it already lmao
2021-07-13T13:44:44 < qyx> he just tend to use a different approach to problem solving
2021-07-13T13:44:53 < mouseghost> qyx, what do you mean?
2021-07-13T13:44:57 < mouseghost> .5L?
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2021-07-13T13:50:58 < Laurenceb> syscalls work fine
2021-07-13T13:51:18 < Laurenceb> but apparently its more demanding, and I have a _lot_ of packets
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2021-07-13T15:15:43 < Laurenceb> fuckin lunix reee
2021-07-13T15:15:51 < Laurenceb> >compile candump from source
2021-07-13T15:15:55 < Laurenceb> >it works
2021-07-13T15:16:00 < Laurenceb> >copy sores
2021-07-13T15:16:02 < Laurenceb> >it fails
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2021-07-13T15:25:34 < tct> just checked dutchlands covid stats... wtf Steffanx, what are you doinG??
2021-07-13T15:32:46 < englishman> for reals
2021-07-13T15:33:08 < englishman> cases are so low here they stopped daily reporting
2021-07-13T15:34:53 < englishman> netherlands chart goes like /
2021-07-13T15:48:11 < BrainDamage> if your covid graph goes erect more than 30days, please consult a physician
2021-07-13T15:51:07 < Steffanx> Tct, we went from lockdown to virtually nothing. 
2021-07-13T15:51:31 < Steffanx> No masks, the kids could go to the club with 800+ people etc.
2021-07-13T15:52:26 < Steffanx> Just with entrance covid tests and vaccinated people. Read falsified results/qr codes. 
2021-07-13T15:53:16 < Steffanx> Also people vaccinated with janssen didnt have to wait two weeks. It was even called "dansen met janssen" (dance with janssen)
2021-07-13T15:54:22 < Steffanx> Its mainly the 20-29 group. The people that went to clubs etc. And than the people they infected.
2021-07-13T15:56:03 < Steffanx> One club had 600-800 visitors. Last report was 160+ infected.
2021-07-13T15:56:34 < Steffanx> The prime minister already said "sorry" for this
2021-07-13T16:01:59 < Laurenceb> hmf
2021-07-13T16:02:05 < Laurenceb> how do I use gdb on lunix?
2021-07-13T16:02:06 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: you have fake qr codes?
2021-07-13T16:02:21 < Laurenceb> (gdb) break 374
2021-07-13T16:02:21 < Laurenceb> No line 374 in the current file.
2021-07-13T16:02:24 < Laurenceb> I'm failing
2021-07-13T16:02:39 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: b <filename>:<line>
2021-07-13T16:03:04 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: good slides, many gdb tricks: https://www.slideshare.net/linaroorg/connect12-q2-gdb
2021-07-13T16:04:14 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: no, not really falsified, more like copies.
2021-07-13T16:04:31 < Steffanx> And they have to check manually with your ID. And ... yeah
2021-07-13T16:04:46 < Steffanx> Its an clusterfuck. 
2021-07-13T16:05:05 < Steffanx> a*
2021-07-13T16:05:21 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I got checked my real ID today.
2021-07-13T16:05:52 < Steffanx> Like it is supposed to be, but I get it gets annoying or something when you have to check 800 people.
2021-07-13T16:06:33 < PaulFertser> Heh
2021-07-13T16:07:10 < Steffanx> And when something is "cumbersome" people tend to be less strict then they are supposed to be
2021-07-13T16:07:14 < PaulFertser> The morons here didn't want to get the vaccine, now all cafes are almost empty if at all working. Many opened additional outside tents (where space allowed).
2021-07-13T16:07:26 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-13T16:08:05 < Steffanx> So yeah, clusterfuck.  Government fucked up, the clubs fucked up, and the younger people fucked up (and the people that already fucked up like they did before)
2021-07-13T16:08:58 < Steffanx> And the result is what you see. Chart: _/
2021-07-13T16:09:36 < Steffanx> Today the two week old r factor was like 2.17. Highest since februari 2020
2021-07-13T16:09:46 < BrainDamage> PaulFertser: weird, I thought russia was ahead in vaccinations?
2021-07-13T16:09:58 < tct> Steffanx, good call
2021-07-13T16:10:11 < BrainDamage> it seems that countries that got early success then didn't follow up
2021-07-13T16:10:23 < tct> CN did
2021-07-13T16:10:24 < BrainDamage> maybe because people got lax
2021-07-13T16:10:45 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: the people here are fucked up and full of bullshit
2021-07-13T16:10:49 < BrainDamage> CN stats are as real as angelina jolie's face
2021-07-13T16:11:11 < PaulFertser> BrainDamage: everybody in moscow could get sputnik v since Jan!
2021-07-13T16:12:06 < PaulFertser> Today we talked to a UEFI developer who wants "to wait till all the long-term effects of the vaccination are known and understood".
2021-07-13T16:12:21 < PaulFertser> And other than that he seemed to be sane.
2021-07-13T16:12:23 < Steffanx> Dutchland is pretty high in the europe charts I recall. 
2021-07-13T16:12:24 < PaulFertser> Go figure :/
2021-07-13T16:12:37 < tct> dutch people are also proud af for like no reason
2021-07-13T16:12:46 < Steffanx> I hear the same here a lot too. 
2021-07-13T16:12:51 < jpa-> it's a valid concern, but considering the information that we already know about the short- and long term effects of covid, the decision is quite easy
2021-07-13T16:12:52 < ventyl> well, there was so much shit spread about vaccines, that I am not even surprised by reaction of some people
2021-07-13T16:13:01 < PaulFertser> jpa-: that's what I told him
2021-07-13T16:13:14 < Steffanx> tct: the group that got sick is partially the non vaccinated group 😉
2021-07-13T16:13:19 < specing> PaulFertser: I mean, if it was unpoliticised, then you could get non-russian vaccines in russia and you could get non-western vaccines in the west
2021-07-13T16:13:25 < specing> PaulFertser: but we are where we are
2021-07-13T16:13:49 < Steffanx> And im not sure why you think we are proud. We're not
2021-07-13T16:13:58 < Steffanx> @mr tct
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2021-07-13T16:14:05 < PaulFertser> specing: I'm not sure if it's really the politics or some stupidity by sputnik promoters, probably they are indeed missing some required documents.
2021-07-13T16:14:21 < Steffanx> I dont think you have ever heard me being proud of something but stroopwafels 
2021-07-13T16:14:46 < Steffanx> Tct: your gf got swissified.
2021-07-13T16:14:54 < specing> PaulFertser: can't be just that. Chinese vaccines are also unavailable in the west
2021-07-13T16:15:04 < jpa-> considering how much of a trouble getting even just a radio transmitter approved in a bunch of countries is, it is no surprise that getting vaccines approved in all countries takes time
2021-07-13T16:15:24 < Steffanx> 5G is much more harmful, jpa- 
2021-07-13T16:15:31 < jpa-> not just documents, but probably they don't directly accept clinical trials performed in other countries etc.
2021-07-13T16:15:48 < specing> jpa-: somewhat true. But with widespread use in other countries, regulators could see that it is OK and fast-track it
2021-07-13T16:16:05 < BrainDamage> it's quite funny you used a radio transmitter as example vs vaccine
2021-07-13T16:16:12 < BrainDamage> was that intentional?
2021-07-13T16:16:18 < jpa-> specing: the standards for medicine are quite strict, it would be easy to hide even 1 in 1000 adverse effects
2021-07-13T16:16:18 < Steffanx> Ofcourse... 
2021-07-13T16:16:19 < specing> jpa-: yeah, so the regulators are politicized
2021-07-13T16:16:57 < BrainDamage> sputnik v needs fcc approval
2021-07-13T16:17:36 < jpa-> in other news, i got chipped yesterday, been very tired.. must be the 5G radiation
2021-07-13T16:17:58 < PaulFertser> jpa-: mRNA?
2021-07-13T16:18:01 < BrainDamage> your body will adapt in a couple of days
2021-07-13T16:18:05 < ventyl> jpa-: poor power rail design for sure
2021-07-13T16:18:13 < jpa-> PaulFertser: yeah, pfizer
2021-07-13T16:18:17 < BrainDamage> just relax and give in
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2021-07-13T16:18:47 < Steffanx> Im glad I only had a sore arm.
2021-07-13T16:18:49 < PaulFertser> Interesting how suddenly mRNA became mainstream. And adenovirus vectors weren't really common either.
2021-07-13T16:19:31 < Steffanx> Its because all non-mRNA vaccines have unfortunate side effects
2021-07-13T16:19:35 < BrainDamage> yeah, it's fairly new as teccnique
2021-07-13T16:19:42 < BrainDamage> but it works
2021-07-13T16:19:56 < BrainDamage> especially after it went such trial by fire
2021-07-13T16:19:59 < Steffanx> If you can call it that. Im not sure how the statistics are nowadays. On for example  AZ
2021-07-13T16:23:50 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_their_own_inventions
2021-07-13T16:24:11 < BrainDamage> i feel like blaxster will belong there sooner or later
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2021-07-13T16:24:57 < Laurenceb> looks like  CMSG_FIRSTHDR(&msg) returns nothing
2021-07-13T16:25:15 < Laurenceb> or NULL rather
2021-07-13T16:25:36 < Laurenceb>  It
2021-07-13T16:25:36 < Laurenceb>           returns NULL if there isn't enough space for a cmsghdr in the
2021-07-13T16:25:37 < Laurenceb>           buffer.
2021-07-13T16:25:44 < Laurenceb> intriguing 
2021-07-13T16:28:44 < BrainDamage> Thomas Midgley, Jr. (1889–1944) was an American engineer and chemist who contracted polio at age 51, leaving him severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. He became accidentally entangled in the ropes and died of strangulation at the age of 55. However, he is better known for two of his other inventions: the tetraethyl lead (TEL) additive to gasoline, and
2021-07-13T16:28:44 < BrainDamage> chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).
2021-07-13T16:29:12 < BrainDamage> when your legacy is extremely unfortunate
2021-07-13T16:34:54 < ventyl> :>
2021-07-13T16:36:56 < Steffanx> Lol BrainDamage . 
2021-07-13T16:39:14 < Steffanx> The curve there goes upwards too it seems, tct
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2021-07-13T16:39:39 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix
2021-07-13T16:40:14 < BrainDamage> looks like this afternoon I'm doing fuck all
2021-07-13T16:40:23 < BrainDamage> 0 concentration
2021-07-13T16:40:27 < Laurenceb> found the issue: ret = recvmsg(sock, &msg, flags); sets msg.msg_controllen to zero
2021-07-13T16:40:48 < Laurenceb> so I get NULL later as it could never contain any data
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2021-07-13T16:43:28 < Laurenceb>  upon return from a successful call it will contain the length of the control message sequence
2021-07-13T16:43:36 -!- rob_w [~bob@host-82-135-31-73.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-07-13T16:43:41 < Laurenceb> so Lunix isnt giving me any control message info
2021-07-13T16:43:42 < Laurenceb> fail
2021-07-13T16:47:48 -!- rkta [~kt@62.113.246.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-07-13T16:47:51 < mouseghost> Steffanx, whats a "club" in that context
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2021-07-13T16:53:48 < Laurenceb> https://github.com/linux-can/can-utils/blob/master/candump.c#L690
2021-07-13T16:53:58 < Laurenceb> they passed a pointer to a pointer?
2021-07-13T16:55:34 < ventyl> I think, that it will end up being the same as if & was not there
2021-07-13T16:55:48 < ventyl> as &ctrlmsg is not an lvalue
2021-07-13T16:56:06 < Laurenceb> ah ok I sort of understand
2021-07-13T16:56:27 < Laurenceb> well it gives 0 bytes with and without &
2021-07-13T16:56:35 < ventyl> but I also expect a warning there
2021-07-13T16:56:35 < Laurenceb> wtf is wrong with my code
2021-07-13T16:57:12 < mouseghost> license check forbids your code from running
2021-07-13T16:57:25 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/mBJjZwye
2021-07-13T16:57:25 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-07-13T16:58:05 < Laurenceb> line 350 to 380 or so
2021-07-13T16:58:41 < Laurenceb> everything works perfectly apart from there being zero control data
2021-07-13T17:00:44 < Laurenceb> maybe the fact that everything else works rules out a lot
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2021-07-13T17:02:46 < Steffanx> mouseghost: disco?
2021-07-13T17:02:56 < mouseghost> ah
2021-07-13T17:03:12 < Steffanx> And similar
2021-07-13T17:08:17 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-13T17:09:12 < Laurenceb> maybe setting timeout could stock SO_TIMESTAMPING from working?
2021-07-13T17:09:18 < Laurenceb> *stop
2021-07-13T17:09:41 < Laurenceb> I'm struggling to see where my code is different from candump
2021-07-13T17:09:49 < Laurenceb> other than how I'm using the socket
2021-07-13T17:22:04 < bitmask> good something people
2021-07-13T17:28:14 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: alan_o, mid-kid
2021-07-13T17:28:25 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mid-kid
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2021-07-13T17:29:09 < bitmask> hmm, whats the natural background radiation level in uSv/hr
2021-07-13T17:35:17 < Laurenceb> shit
2021-07-13T17:35:25 < Laurenceb> ioctrl gives last traffic on the bus
2021-07-13T17:35:32 < Laurenceb> not a specific timestamp of a packet
2021-07-13T17:35:36 < Laurenceb> I'm screwed
2021-07-13T17:44:48 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-07-13T17:48:31 < Steffanx> Depends on where you are bitmask ...
2021-07-13T17:48:59 < bitmask> k k k
2021-07-13T17:49:01 < bitmask> oops
2021-07-13T17:51:23 < ventyl> anywhere from 3uSv to I think 100uSv
2021-07-13T17:51:38 < bitmask> not an hour
2021-07-13T17:52:45 < ventyl> up to 30uSv/h
2021-07-13T17:53:06 < bitmask> that cant be right
2021-07-13T17:53:16 < ventyl> 260mSv/year
2021-07-13T17:53:16 < bitmask> i think its 3 per year
2021-07-13T17:53:36 < BrainDamage> bitmask: it highly depends on your surroundings
2021-07-13T17:53:46 < bitmask> true but thats a big difference
2021-07-13T17:53:48 < ventyl> 3mSv/year is among lowest natural backgrounds you can experience
2021-07-13T17:54:07 < BrainDamage> tuff and other volcano based rocks have high radioactivity
2021-07-13T17:54:13 < bitmask> i guess im only going by two sources but 
2021-07-13T17:54:19 < ventyl> in high-elevated areas and some areas with specific minerals, it may be much, much, much higher
2021-07-13T17:54:22 < BrainDamage> and can even accumulate radon in your basement
2021-07-13T17:54:43 < bitmask> my meter reads 0.09 uSv/hour, i know its not accurate and doesnt measure alpha but shouldnt be too far off
2021-07-13T17:54:43 < ventyl> 260mSv/year can be measured in some areas of city Ramsar in Iran
2021-07-13T17:54:58 < bitmask> well yea but thats an extreme example
2021-07-13T17:55:14 < ventyl> but not the only and not *that* extreme
2021-07-13T17:55:16 < BrainDamage> 260mS/year sounds a bit dangerous in long term
2021-07-13T17:55:24 < ventyl> suprisingly, it is not
2021-07-13T17:56:30 < ventyl> well, actually, unsuprisingly, as 260mSv/year is dose comparable to one of commercial airline pilots
2021-07-13T17:56:48 < bitmask> i gotta finish lining this can in lead, i screwed up one endcap and wont have enough if I screw up again
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2021-07-13T18:09:28 < bitmask> ahh shit, i dont have enough lead, i gotta order more, I thought I had enough for one screw up but apparently not
2021-07-13T18:10:46 < bitmask> 20 bucks down the drain
2021-07-13T18:18:48 < Laurenceb> bitmask15:48:32
2021-07-13T18:18:49 < Laurenceb> k k k
2021-07-13T18:19:02  * Laurenceb passes a white hood
2021-07-13T18:19:38 < bitmask> thats why i oopsed
2021-07-13T18:24:06 < Laurenceb> msg.msg_controllen is alwasy zero :(
2021-07-13T18:25:49 < Laurenceb> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57186620/in-which-cases-can-msg-controllen-be-0-when-accessing-ancillary-data-after-send
2021-07-13T18:25:53 < Laurenceb> >no answers
2021-07-13T18:25:55 < Laurenceb> reeee
2021-07-13T18:26:48 < bitmask> im such a bafoon
2021-07-13T18:26:59 < bitmask> i did have enough lead
2021-07-13T18:27:04 < bitmask> didnt need to order another sheet
2021-07-13T18:40:38 < Laurenceb> interesting
2021-07-13T18:40:47 < Laurenceb> I wrote simple demo code, it fails in the same way
2021-07-13T18:43:31 < Laurenceb> anyone have can hardware unde rlunix?
2021-07-13T18:43:32 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/Pj4jFakc
2021-07-13T19:03:03 < englishman> no covid deaths here in the last 7 days
2021-07-13T19:03:45 < englishman> 81% of 12+ single dose, 46% two doses
2021-07-13T19:06:18 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2021-07-13T19:06:29 < englishman> interesting that since the end of Feb, the Alpha (UK) variant has almost completely taken over as the cause of positive cases, so it's basically a second pandemic
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2021-07-13T19:08:06 < Laurenceb48> clearly I need to consult a lunix pro
2021-07-13T19:08:07 -!- Laurenceb [~Laurenceb@219.141.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
2021-07-13T19:08:16 < Laurenceb48> wasting my time here, I'm sod out of luck
2021-07-13T19:08:22 < Steffanx> Here we have Delta. Want some , englishman ?
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2021-07-13T19:24:02 < BrainDamage> it's just a lame attempt of uk to try colonialism again
2021-07-13T19:24:17 < BrainDamage> they are trying to outdo china
2021-07-13T19:24:54 -!- machinehum [~machinehu@2604:3d08:937d:9300::a482] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-13T19:27:08 < mawk> lol
2021-07-13T19:27:28 < mawk> how to do filter paper at home BrainDamage 
2021-07-13T19:27:40 < BrainDamage> buy coffee filters
2021-07-13T19:27:42 < mawk> coffee filter? cotton ball in a funnel? cleaning towel?
2021-07-13T19:27:50 < mawk> hmm
2021-07-13T19:28:01 < mawk> I found some unbleached one, I will try
2021-07-13T19:28:02 < BrainDamage> cotton ball leaves too much lint
2021-07-13T19:28:13 < mawk> but I have a feeling the solution will eat away at the paper maybe
2021-07-13T19:28:15 < mawk> ah right
2021-07-13T19:28:37 < BrainDamage> cleaning towel may work
2021-07-13T19:31:28 < Laurenceb48> wtf now it works
2021-07-13T19:31:29 < Laurenceb48> ok wut
2021-07-13T19:32:01 < Laurenceb48> https://pastebin.com/jjHhMmFg  <-fails
2021-07-13T19:32:27 < Laurenceb48> https://pastebin.com/vQnh7kG2 <- works
2021-07-13T19:32:29 < Laurenceb48> wtf
2021-07-13T19:32:43 < Steffanx> Every considered a job as magician, Laurenceb48 ?
2021-07-13T19:32:49 < Laurenceb48> lol
2021-07-13T19:34:06 < Steffanx> And a tool which shows diffs on your pastes, because im not going to look for it
2021-07-13T19:34:11 < BrainDamage> mawk: I recommend getting an aspirator pump too and a t fitting for your filtration funnel
2021-07-13T19:34:25 < BrainDamage> vacuum filtration is much much less frustrating
2021-07-13T19:34:55 < mawk> I see
2021-07-13T19:35:07 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-07-13T19:35:09 < mawk> well what I have to filter can be described as colloidal I think BrainDamage 
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2021-07-13T19:35:34 < mawk> cellulose polymer shit carried over from a gel
2021-07-13T19:39:48 < mawk> HPMC polymer
2021-07-13T19:40:12 < mawk> hydroxypropylmethylcelluloshit
2021-07-13T19:40:54 < mawk> a tap filtration doesn't work as good BrainDamage ?
2021-07-13T19:40:58 < mawk> instead of pump
2021-07-13T19:43:10 < BrainDamage> not sur what that is
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2021-07-13T20:04:22 < Laurenceb48> arggg wtf
2021-07-13T20:04:29 < Laurenceb48> the absolute state of Lunix
2021-07-13T20:04:33 < Laurenceb48> >setsockopt(s, SOL_SOCKET, SO_TIMESTAMP, &n, sizeof(n
2021-07-13T20:04:46 < Laurenceb48> SO_TIMESTAMP/SO_TIMESTAMPING
2021-07-13T20:05:06 < Laurenceb48> >they changed the enum but kept the old one defined yet made it brake the new kernel
2021-07-13T20:05:10 < Laurenceb48> what the fuuuuuu
2021-07-13T20:05:21 < Laurenceb48> *break
2021-07-13T20:05:47 < Laurenceb48> how could anyone think this was a good idea
2021-07-13T20:06:09 < ventyl> well, the old one works with old kernels, new one works with new kernels
2021-07-13T20:06:27 < Laurenceb48> >wasted my whole afternoon because they changed the name of a #define
2021-07-13T20:06:48 < ventyl> weren't you receiving something like non-zero return status from setsockopt?
2021-07-13T20:07:02 < Laurenceb48> nope it accepted it
2021-07-13T20:07:15 < Laurenceb48> and then did nothing...
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2021-07-13T20:10:45 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RiYXI1Tfu4
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2021-07-13T20:12:28 < Laurenceb> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/65363515/difference-between-so-timestamp-and-so-timestamping-software-timestamps
2021-07-13T20:12:37 < Laurenceb> there may be "method" in the madness
2021-07-13T20:12:53 < Laurenceb> SocketCAN kernel driver was rewritten and the timestamp generation point changed
2021-07-13T20:13:06 < Laurenceb> so the timestmap terminology has to change... I guess
2021-07-13T20:14:11 < Laurenceb> maybe I could logic or the two flags for cross compatibility, time to try
2021-07-13T20:16:28 < Laurenceb> or fails but one after the other works
2021-07-13T20:17:41 < Laurenceb> the horror https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57823716
2021-07-13T20:17:52 < Laurenceb> poor """influencers"""
2021-07-13T20:19:05 < Steffanx> You consider yourself a influencer too right?
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2021-07-13T20:19:32 < BrainDamage> in the sense he spreads influenza
2021-07-13T20:25:42 < jpa-> BrainDamage: why are you so mean behind lb's back?
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2021-07-13T20:26:04 < BrainDamage> I wrote it before he quit
2021-07-13T20:26:59 < BrainDamage> otherwise, I have no problems being mean on his face
2021-07-13T20:27:46 < Steffanx> You have no clue what we said about you, jpa- 
2021-07-13T20:28:34 < BrainDamage> nah, that's why he placed a logger bot
2021-07-13T20:29:11 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-13T20:29:16 < jpa-> there is no logger bot
2021-07-13T20:29:18 < Steffanx> Hes the logger bot.. 
2021-07-13T20:29:25 < jpa-> or that :)
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2021-07-13T20:40:34 < upgrdman> anyone know if the FTDI drivers can report when a buffer overflows? when i use a device with an old FT232BM (128 byte tx buffer) I get occasional data corruption. when i use a device with a FT232RQ (256 byte tx buffer) it seems to work perfect. hoping for a way to confirm that the problem is buffer overflow.
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2021-07-13T21:09:12 < ventyl> upgrdman: do you check return value of write() call?
2021-07-13T21:10:22 < upgrdman> its being used as a uart
2021-07-13T21:10:52 < ventyl> on windows?
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2021-07-13T21:13:11 < upgrdman> yes
2021-07-13T21:13:25 < upgrdman> oh, oops, i meant RX buffer, not TX buffer
2021-07-13T21:13:38 < upgrdman> data is coming from a mcu
2021-07-13T21:13:52 < upgrdman> pc is not sending any data
2021-07-13T21:14:15 < ventyl> poor litle PC not keeping up with MCU sending data over UART
2021-07-13T21:14:58 < upgrdman> i dont think the pc is to blame
2021-07-13T21:16:00 < upgrdman> at first i thought it was a firmware problem, but SerialPortMonitor confirms that the PC see's occasional corrupted data
2021-07-13T21:16:05 < upgrdman> s/but/and
2021-07-13T21:16:18 < upgrdman> but when i scope the tx pin of my mcu, it looks good.
2021-07-13T21:16:37 < upgrdman> so i suspect the ftdi rx buffer is overflowing sometimes.
2021-07-13T21:17:46 < upgrdman> hmm. i wonder if the ftdi drives the RTS/DTR/etc pins or if they are just controlled through the driver
2021-07-13T21:27:50 < mouseghost> upgrdman, check your clock
2021-07-13T21:28:27 < mouseghost> oh
2021-07-13T21:28:28 < mouseghost> nvm
2021-07-13T21:28:33 < mouseghost> youve checked with scope...
2021-07-13T21:39:13 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/keRNIdp
2021-07-13T21:39:32 < bitmask> lid of my lead lined container with minimal lead visible
2021-07-13T21:41:43 < ventyl> bitmask: how is the plastic bounded to the lead?
2021-07-13T21:42:18 < bitmask> cant see it in the pics but theres 4 screws that go between the top and bottom plastic piece
2021-07-13T21:42:36 < ventyl> ah ok
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--- Day changed Wed Jul 14 2021
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2021-07-14T00:27:39 < karlp> re rad exposure, a friend of mine is a stewardess, she got grounded one month as she'd exceededher monthly rad allowance based on her flights...
2021-07-14T00:42:29 < sauce> seems to me the occupational safety limits are well below what you'd get from living at a high altitude also
2021-07-14T00:48:12 < sauce> ah that's incorrect, it's the limit for members of the public
2021-07-14T00:49:59 < sauce> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stevens
2021-07-14T00:50:02 < sauce> this shit is crazy
2021-07-14T00:50:37 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/nKBqb.png
2021-07-14T00:52:37 < sauce> he had the largest dose known to be absorbed by a human over the course of his life....from less than a microgram of material
2021-07-14T00:53:31 < karlp> well, duh, work limits will be low, because _no_ corporate lawyer ever wants to be on the wrong end of a case of "I cant have babies because you didn't take me off the roster..."
2021-07-14T01:07:17 < mouseghost> "On May 14, 1945, he was injected with 131 kBq (3.55 µCi) of plutonium without his knowledge or informed consent." wtf tho
2021-07-14T01:07:26 < englishman> lol irl karl
2021-07-14T01:10:53 < kakium69> sauce: in us they radiated all kinds of things intentionally
2021-07-14T01:11:10 < kakium69> in ussr accidentally
2021-07-14T01:11:53 < kakium69> or by neglectance
2021-07-14T01:13:03 < sauce> my favourite one is the windscale fire
2021-07-14T01:15:45 < englishman> idk why but this diagram makes me smile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire#/media/File:Windscale-reactor.svg
2021-07-14T01:16:10 < englishman> having highly radioactive weaponized plutonium just pooping out the back of the reactor into a little kiddie pool
2021-07-14T01:17:06 < specing> Ah yeah, union of capitalistic states methods
2021-07-14T01:19:07 < karlp> bt 5.3 is out, but I dont' remember what was in 5.2?
2021-07-14T01:19:37 < karlp> englishman: lol at "aim at eyes" ?
2021-07-14T01:19:46 < englishman> yes
2021-07-14T01:20:00 < karlp> yeah, multi core too, xmos inside? :)
2021-07-14T01:20:16 < karlp> or just dual 8051.....
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2021-07-14T01:47:34 < englishman> sauce: that is indeed a fantastic reactor and fire, thank you for mentioning it, i had not heard of it before
2021-07-14T01:50:43 < machinehum> https://old.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/oj2tsf/looking_for_a_rightangle_version_of_this/
2021-07-14T01:50:47 < machinehum> My quest continues
2021-07-14T01:51:28 < machinehum> Nothing like wasting 1Davide's time
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2021-07-14T02:17:07 < bitmask> lead container finished minus the outer shell, came out pretty goo
2021-07-14T02:17:08 < bitmask> d
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2021-07-14T02:51:32 < bitmask> put my samples in and im just reading normal background radiation, it works :)
2021-07-14T03:02:25 < BrainDamage> do you have a screwdriver and a neutron reflector to play around now?
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2021-07-14T03:06:03 < bitmask> umm i do not
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2021-07-14T03:21:12 < BrainDamage> I'm calling bullshit on the previous claim that 250mSv/year is harmless, it's within the treshold of chronic radiation syndrome, which results in multi-organ damage https://web.archive.org/web/20141103182422/http://www.icrp.org/docs/Tissue%20Reactions%20Report%20Draft%20for%20Consultation.pdf
2021-07-14T03:22:21 < BrainDamage> you need ~1Gy and dose rates above 0.1Gy/year, which 250mSv/year would reach in 5  years
2021-07-14T03:22:39 < BrainDamage> so that city would have a sickly population if that was true
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2021-07-14T03:45:23 < bitmask> yea seems like a lot to me
2021-07-14T03:49:08 < englishman> https://archive.org/details/0391_SL-1_Accident_Briefing_Film_Report_The_23_36_08_00
2021-07-14T03:49:50 < englishman> withdrawing this control rod 20 inches instead of 4 inches resulted in the reactor going critical, an explosion, and 3 deaths
2021-07-14T03:50:04 < englishman> science is amazing
2021-07-14T03:50:54 < englishman> one of the 3 dead had a control rod going all the way through him. he was embedded in the ceiling
2021-07-14T04:00:06 < BrainDamage> https://sci-hub.st/10.1177/0033294120978162
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2021-07-14T06:37:58 < jadew> finally ready: https://cojotech.com/media/datasheets/FLAMP-030-29%20-%20Datasheet.pdf
2021-07-14T06:38:06 < jadew> it lost a GHz in the process :/
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2021-07-14T06:39:36 < jadew> still pretty good to 4 GHz, and useful to 7, but I couldn't claim the ±1 dB flatness if I specified it higher
2021-07-14T06:47:05 < jadew> time for bed o/
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2021-07-14T07:40:31 < R2COM> goddamnit fuck this chip shortage
2021-07-14T07:40:48 < R2COM> fuck those who created this virus
2021-07-14T07:41:41 < R2COM> and also fuck those who overorder ICs
2021-07-14T07:41:57 < R2COM> its same as those stupid walmart fucks who overbuy toilet papers
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2021-07-14T10:03:44 < jpa-> jadew: nice :)
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2021-07-14T11:07:07 < kakium69> there has even been shortage of garden gnomes :D
2021-07-14T11:08:18 < Steffanx> Oh dear. What now kakium69  
2021-07-14T11:11:35 < kakium69> panic ofc
2021-07-14T11:13:07 < kakium69> it would have been funny if garden gnome shortage was because of panic bying but actually it was because of suez thing
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2021-07-14T11:21:09 < ventyl> that's fairly understandable
2021-07-14T11:21:38 < ventyl> chip shortage caused lack of advanced machine learning engines suitable for garden gnome installation, therefore the lack of garden gnomes
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2021-07-14T15:09:56 < englishman> can I switch from a C temp grade to an I temp grade, same speed, without any problems
2021-07-14T15:10:08 < englishman> my assumption is yes, but with FPGAs i don't want to make any assumptions
2021-07-14T15:10:11 < englishman> aandrew: ?
2021-07-14T15:10:18 < englishman> https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/General-Technical-Discussion/Xilinx-FPGA-Commercial-vs-Industrial-Reliability/td-p/186038
2021-07-14T15:10:25 < englishman> this kind of wafts around the answer
2021-07-14T15:10:34 < englishman> even contradicts itself
2021-07-14T15:10:50 < englishman> oh i didnt mention: yes xilinx fpga spartan6
2021-07-14T15:11:28 < englishman> hoping to use identical bitstream
2021-07-14T15:11:40 < zyp> have you tried just building for C vs I and comparing the timing report?
2021-07-14T15:11:41 < ventyl> hm, cortex m0+ can be made dual core
2021-07-14T15:11:50 < englishman> bitstream cannot be rebuilt
2021-07-14T15:11:51 < jpa-> reading the answer it sounds like I and C parts are the same, but I parts go through extra high-temp testing in manufacturing
2021-07-14T15:12:06 < zyp> yeah, I'd expect I and C to just be binning
2021-07-14T15:12:11 < zyp> but so are speed grades
2021-07-14T15:12:43 < englishman> yeah, i also assume that you'd always be able to use a chip with superior rating
2021-07-14T15:12:53 < englishman> but with fpgas, i don't know enough to ensure that assumption is safe
2021-07-14T15:13:15 < zyp> also, doesn't xilinx do a thing where the same part is marked both as one speed grade for industrial temp range and another speed grade for commercial temp range?
2021-07-14T15:13:40 < englishman> hmm
2021-07-14T15:14:00 < englishman> the chip in question is XC6SLX75-2CSG484C
2021-07-14T15:14:03 < englishman> https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf
2021-07-14T15:14:30 < zyp> I wouldn't be surprised if that was also -1 I
2021-07-14T15:14:38 < zyp> from what I remember
2021-07-14T15:15:08 < englishman> https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds162.pdf
2021-07-14T15:15:14 < englishman> seems to be temp grade agnostic
2021-07-14T15:15:22 < englishman> ok
2021-07-14T15:15:32 < englishman> so if i order -2 I i should be safe
2021-07-14T15:15:48 < zyp> probably
2021-07-14T15:15:52 < englishman> :)
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2021-07-14T15:25:11 < englishman> https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/FPGA-Configuration/Spartan-6-Commercial-vs-Industrial/td-p/1254092
2021-07-14T15:25:31 < englishman> probably in the same boat as me, C grade not available, I grade loads of stock
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2021-07-14T15:31:26 < jadew> news from last month: John McAfee killed himself over taxes
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2021-07-14T15:35:05 < BrainDamage> deadly taxess
2021-07-14T15:36:29 < specing> guy knew he was gonna get Capone'd
2021-07-14T15:39:37 < englishman> i wonder if all ICs act the same
2021-07-14T15:39:47 < englishman> in that internally, the high temp grade parts are slightly faster
2021-07-14T15:40:02 < englishman> but we don't see the difference as everything has been designed for all temp grades
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2021-07-14T15:58:48 < jpa-> englishman: in all ICs, there is a critical path that limits the speed of the device; and the transistors in that path get worse the further away they go from the optimal operating condition; but it is not necessarily /\ shaped slope where the top would rise when the bottom gets wider, instead it could be ,----. where it just gets wider but room temperature speed does not significantly change
2021-07-14T16:15:31 < englishman> yes. and we generally never see this effect because we clock them so low
2021-07-14T16:16:12 < jpa-> yeah, we do not want to see the critical path fail
2021-07-14T16:17:20 < jpa-> is a chip fast if it runs at slow clock speed? :)
2021-07-14T16:18:40 < BrainDamage> yes
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2021-07-14T16:18:53 < BrainDamage> the critical path is delimited on propagation speed
2021-07-14T16:22:14 < jpa-> the question boils down to: "How well does ability to run at X MHz at Y °C predict the ability to run at >X MHz at <Y °C?"
2021-07-14T16:24:37 < BrainDamage> increased temp reduces conducibility in cmos logic
2021-07-14T16:24:41 < BrainDamage> so fastah at lower temps, slower at higher
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2021-07-14T17:44:46 < Laurenceb> sheeeeettttt
2021-07-14T17:44:55 < Laurenceb> I just got b& from all football matches
2021-07-14T17:45:11 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57837003
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2021-07-14T17:49:25 < tct> some off-topic: Given a server application which accepts HTTP requests and serves rendered HTTP to the client; there is a form on one of the pages to add a new item. The user clicks on "submit" and the server receives the request with the form data. The server can't add the item eg. because of a "duplicate name" issue. How does one report this back to the user properly? Should the HTML template which contains the form also 
2021-07-14T17:49:25 < tct> contain a message popup which is default hidden but on error the server sends the same template back but with the error message filled in and the popup marked as visible?
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2021-07-14T17:53:14 < MrMobius> your professor has a weird way of phrasing homework questions
2021-07-14T17:55:34 < tct> lol
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2021-07-14T18:06:22 < Steffanx> One posts single item using XHR and gets a response back and one shows a message.  Or whatever is hot today 😋
2021-07-14T18:07:18 < tct> yeah that is the "modern" way of doing it.
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2021-07-14T18:57:47 < Steffanx> Tct: I guess the more static template way is some conditional in the template I think. "{%  if error %} error message html {% endif  %}
2021-07-14T18:58:06 < Steffanx> Assuming your templating language supports conditionals
2021-07-14T18:58:49 < tct> yep
2021-07-14T18:58:51 < tct> thanks Steffanx 
2021-07-14T19:05:26 < Steffanx> Mangy_Dog: like freenode more?
2021-07-14T19:06:19 < Mangy_Dog> o/
2021-07-14T19:06:25 < Mangy_Dog> no
2021-07-14T19:06:29 < Mangy_Dog> just hovering in both tilol most people move
2021-07-14T19:23:11 < zyp> there's still people left on freenode?
2021-07-14T19:24:09 < zyp> I thought most of the remaining left once the old services db disappeared
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2021-07-14T19:44:03 < Steffanx> Using this one will be more helpful I think, Mangy_Dog  ;)
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2021-07-14T19:55:18 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2021-07-14T19:55:31 < Mangy_Dog> ohhhh
2021-07-14T19:55:33 < Mangy_Dog> i see
2021-07-14T19:55:35 < Mangy_Dog> sorry :D
2021-07-14T19:55:41 < Mangy_Dog> yeah i thought i was typing in here
2021-07-14T19:55:52 < BrainDamage> freenode banks on the fact that many web links still point on the old freenode
2021-07-14T19:55:58 < BrainDamage> + people's memory
2021-07-14T19:56:00 < Mangy_Dog> got about 17 odd windows open :D
2021-07-14T20:06:08 < Steffanx> Im helpful today, right tct? :P
2021-07-14T20:32:18 < bitmask> hmm, didnt know stick welding rods came with a layer of flux on them... just spent like 30 minutes removing it
2021-07-14T20:33:04 < sync> stick welding doesn't work without it
2021-07-14T20:33:21 < bitmask> i just wanted the rods
2021-07-14T20:33:53 < bitmask> i was looking for thin rods that might be good for electromagnets, these are iron and nickel (55%)
2021-07-14T20:34:30 < bitmask> smallest diameter silicon iron rods i found are 5mm
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2021-07-14T20:37:28 < qyx> is silicon iron magnetically "the best"?
2021-07-14T20:37:54 < BrainDamage> only at extremely low freq
2021-07-14T20:37:58 < bitmask> probably not the best but i think its good
2021-07-14T20:38:15 < BrainDamage> iirc cobalt steel is the best one
2021-07-14T20:38:18 < bitmask> i was just looking for that or soft iron
2021-07-14T20:38:20 < BrainDamage> but it's not cheap
2021-07-14T20:38:30 < bitmask> oh well yea im not looking to spend a lot, hence the welding rods
2021-07-14T20:38:48 < BrainDamage> as freq increases iron in general goes downhill fast
2021-07-14T20:38:48 < bitmask> im not even sure how 55% nickel content is gonna do
2021-07-14T20:39:05 < bitmask> yea im not planning on high frequency
2021-07-14T20:42:08 < qyx> I wanted to do the 8 Hz magnetic field voodoo
2021-07-14T20:42:16 < qyx> which may be considered DC
2021-07-14T20:44:05 < BrainDamage> get laminated iron
2021-07-14T20:44:15 < BrainDamage> it's not as dc as you wish
2021-07-14T20:44:46 < qyx> I wanted to do a "laminated" welding rod setup
2021-07-14T20:45:07 < qyx> epoxy coat the individual rods and make a core about 50 mm in diameter
2021-07-14T20:45:16 < BrainDamage> that works
2021-07-14T20:45:53 < bitmask> what is this 8 hz voodoo?
2021-07-14T20:46:24 < ds2> what are you trying to maximize?
2021-07-14T20:46:29 < ds2> (or minimize)
2021-07-14T20:46:31 < qyx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
2021-07-14T20:47:23 < BrainDamage> listening to earth's tweets
2021-07-14T20:47:57 < ds2> so low current with a large, mu?
2021-07-14T20:48:26 < qyx> the other application is to detect earthquages
2021-07-14T20:48:37 < qyx> as the coils move in Earth's magnetic field
2021-07-14T20:48:46 < ds2> think some of the material differences have to do to hysteriese (sp) losses
2021-07-14T20:48:59 < ds2> which may not matter much for lower power
2021-07-14T20:49:31 < BrainDamage> it does matter when you build an antenna
2021-07-14T20:49:37 < BrainDamage> a lossy antenna is a deaf one
2021-07-14T20:49:44 < bitmask> i see
2021-07-14T20:50:32 < ds2> wonder if mu metal would be a better core for you
2021-07-14T20:50:43 < ds2> $$ though
2021-07-14T20:52:01 < BrainDamage> the 'standard' is ferrites for antennas
2021-07-14T20:52:35 < BrainDamage> in terms of mu it's only a factor of 2-3 smaller than iron
2021-07-14T20:52:59 < BrainDamage> and it outweights iron in losses by orders of magnitude
2021-07-14T20:53:14 < BrainDamage> so there's net gain
2021-07-14T20:53:36 < BrainDamage> then again, welding rods are cheap
2021-07-14T20:54:50 < qyx> I read some blogpost of a guy who used rectangular cross section steel rods
2021-07-14T20:54:58 < qyx> it worked grea
2021-07-14T20:55:23 < ds2> is there a easy way to measure the losses?
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2021-07-14T20:57:47 < BrainDamage> yes
2021-07-14T20:57:55 < BrainDamage> you make a transformer with the core
2021-07-14T20:58:07 < BrainDamage> then do pout/pin
2021-07-14T20:58:34 < ds2> that doesn't sound that easy
2021-07-14T20:59:04 < BrainDamage> compared to physical analysis, it's trivial :p
2021-07-14T20:59:17 < BrainDamage> the losses core come from many components
2021-07-14T20:59:38 < BrainDamage> eddy currents which are subject of skin effect, magnetization hysteresis, etc
2021-07-14T20:59:39 < ds2> easy is connecting 2 wire and reading things off a meter...like those LCR meters :D
2021-07-14T20:59:57 < BrainDamage> that'd work
2021-07-14T21:00:33 < BrainDamage> if you make a coil with it, and first measure dc rating, and then you measure the resistive component at certain freq
2021-07-14T21:00:54 < BrainDamage> the difference is the core's loss
2021-07-14T21:01:56 < ds2> oh cool, that's a nifty trick
2021-07-14T21:04:35 < qyx> wait what
2021-07-14T21:04:55 < qyx> so feed it with an AC voltage and mesaure the current
2021-07-14T21:05:04 < qyx> or feed with constant current AC and measure the voltage
2021-07-14T21:05:10 < qyx> and calculate reactance?
2021-07-14T21:05:47 < ds2> I read that as - measure the AC parasitic resistance
2021-07-14T21:07:17 < BrainDamage> you want the real component, not the imaginary, yes
2021-07-14T21:07:38 < BrainDamage> the imaginary comes from inductance, the real come from losses
2021-07-14T21:08:18 < BrainDamage> funningly enough, the complex part of the magnetic permeability will appear as lossses
2021-07-14T21:09:03 < ds2> this is a nice use for the cheap VNAs
2021-07-14T21:10:59 < bitmask> these cheap PE lunch lady gloves were a good buy, tired of wasting good nitrile when i only need gloves real quick or just trying to keep my hands clean
2021-07-14T21:16:20 < qyx> I shlold refill my knowledge first
2021-07-14T21:16:25 < qyx> *should
2021-07-14T21:17:38 < sauce> bitmask: yeah same, my typical use case for gloves is "I don't want to coat everything i touch in sebum"
2021-07-14T21:17:43 < sauce> might try cotton gloves for that also
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2021-07-14T21:20:28 < bitmask> heh
2021-07-14T21:23:01 < bitmask> i wanna do some airbrushing but the setup and clean up is such a bitch 
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2021-07-14T21:33:03 < upgrdman> bitmask, i used to airbrush a lot of RC car bodies and heli canopies. only takes a couple minutes to start/stop
2021-07-14T21:33:20 < upgrdman> what is taking so long? maybe there's a better way to do it
2021-07-14T21:34:22 < bitmask> well its the setup mostly, i dont have a workshop or anything so I have to bring everything down from the attic to do in my room, i made a spray booth so I gotta set that all up and connect it to the window, its just annoying :P
2021-07-14T21:34:33 < upgrdman> ah ok
2021-07-14T21:34:51 < upgrdman> so the problem is that you're poor
2021-07-14T21:34:52 < upgrdman> ;)
2021-07-14T21:34:55 < bitmask> haha exactly
2021-07-14T21:35:28 < upgrdman> i fell your pain.
2021-07-14T21:35:31 < upgrdman> feel*
2021-07-14T21:38:16 < bitmask> guess i'll finish my cloud chamber
2021-07-14T21:55:57 < sauce> pfff imagine finishing projects
2021-07-14T21:59:15 < qyx> finished projects are no fun
2021-07-14T21:59:33 < bitmask> yea once they are finished they never get turned on again
2021-07-14T22:10:52 < upgrdman> if the f7 i need is ever stocked again, i'll finally be able to make way on my current project
2021-07-14T22:11:58 < ventyl> my finished projects usually run some stuff
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2021-07-15T00:55:45 < mawk> I tested my blood group with a testing kit
2021-07-15T00:55:49 < mawk> I'm A+ normally
2021-07-15T01:03:06 < Steffanx> What test kit did you get for this mr mawk?
2021-07-15T01:04:36 < mawk> Steffanx: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013F5PAV0/
2021-07-15T01:04:59 < mawk> you have to make a hole in your finger with a special blade they give you
2021-07-15T01:05:38 < Steffanx> No local sores?
2021-07-15T01:05:42 < mawk> then you bleed onto the paper that has antibodies on it that will coagulate or not your blood to tell you which group you have
2021-07-15T01:05:44 < mawk> no
2021-07-15T01:05:47 < mawk> it comes from the USA
2021-07-15T01:05:51 < mawk> but it came in 2 days for me
2021-07-15T01:06:01 < mawk> I have a second one I didn't use, I can send it to you if you want
2021-07-15T01:06:05 < mawk> it's still sealed in the sterile envelope
2021-07-15T01:06:18 < mawk> if you give me your address
2021-07-15T01:07:47 < Steffanx> Nah you will come and steal my fentanyl 
2021-07-15T01:08:01 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T01:08:03 < mawk> no
2021-07-15T01:08:08 < mawk> it's probably expired anyway
2021-07-15T01:08:12 < mawk> give me a PO box address if you're afraid
2021-07-15T01:08:16 < mawk> anyway you have my address
2021-07-15T01:08:20 < mawk> if i steal your fentanyl you can come take it back
2021-07-15T01:08:55 < mawk> I'll send you a bit of distilled water with it if you don't have it also, they say to use tap water but people in the reviews say they've been having bad results
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2021-07-15T01:13:04 < Steffanx> You probably already have it. It was probably on the package 
2021-07-15T01:27:10 < BrainDamage> wait, you have fentanyl?
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2021-07-15T02:03:18 < mawk> BrainDamage: it's common when you have cancer
2021-07-15T02:03:28 < mawk> ah yes Steffanx 
2021-07-15T02:03:33 < mawk> but I'm not a stalker so I didn't save it
2021-07-15T02:04:11 < BrainDamage> I was wondering if he had an elephant to anestethize
2021-07-15T02:04:19 < BrainDamage> but I guess that's not far off
2021-07-15T02:09:28 < mawk> I tried fentanyl before
2021-07-15T02:09:30 < mawk> it's not that good
2021-07-15T02:09:36 < mawk> just makes you sleepy, but unable to really sleep
2021-07-15T02:09:45 < karlp> mawk: so... are you _normally_ a+, but weren't with this kit?
2021-07-15T02:09:46 < mawk> you're there lying having semi-dreams and frustrated to not be able to really sleep
2021-07-15T02:09:56 < mawk> no karlp , I never knew my blood group
2021-07-15T02:10:03 < mawk> not even my mother knew
2021-07-15T02:10:07 < mawk> so I bought this kit, and the kit said A+
2021-07-15T02:10:10  * karlp is a+ too, iirc.
2021-07-15T02:10:18 < mawk> and the result is pretty unambiguous so I think I'll trust it
2021-07-15T02:10:19 < karlp> mum was ab+, prety rare
2021-07-15T02:10:23 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-15T02:10:30 < mawk> A+ is the second most common apparently
2021-07-15T02:10:30 < karlp> havnet given blood for years though
2021-07-15T02:10:41 < mawk> I don't think they would let me give blood
2021-07-15T02:10:45 < karlp> anothe rthing I need to get back too...
2021-07-15T02:10:50 < mawk> things like drugs or gay sex are forbidden
2021-07-15T02:11:05 < karlp> depending on country, either permaban, or very long term band
2021-07-15T02:11:21 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-15T02:11:25 < karlp> while, eastern european prostitutes unprotected is like, "nah, 3 months is fine"
2021-07-15T02:11:27 < mawk> in france up until recently homosexuals were banned for life
2021-07-15T02:11:28 < karlp> fascists...
2021-07-15T02:11:33 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T02:11:44 < karlp> yeah, we only recently opened up a window for gay men,
2021-07-15T02:11:49 < karlp> was such bullshit
2021-07-15T02:12:06 < mawk> it made sense in 1990 when AIDS was new and we didn't have proper procedures to remove HIV from blood
2021-07-15T02:12:10 < mawk> but now we can
2021-07-15T02:12:21 < mawk> we could even get blood from HIV+ individuals and cook it the right way
2021-07-15T02:12:52 < karlp> pretty sure they don't bother, it's just screened and yea/nei
2021-07-15T02:13:08 < mawk> well at the time of AIDS that's when they did this cooking thing
2021-07-15T02:13:18 < mawk> I think they couldn't screen yet for AIDS, and they had massively contaminated stashes of blood
2021-07-15T02:13:20 < karlp> I seem to recall it actually being even thinner, thye _didn't_ scan it all, just initial donations, and then trusted interviews...
2021-07-15T02:13:22 < mawk> so they had to make it safe
2021-07-15T02:13:35 < mawk> that sounds dangerous
2021-07-15T02:13:42 < karlp> seems implausible nowadays yes.
2021-07-15T02:13:59 < karlp> still, gay life bans persisted for farrrrr longer than made any real  sense.
2021-07-15T02:14:17 < mawk> yeah
2021-07-15T02:16:34 < mawk> for the test it was quite hard to draw enough blood from a single prick, maybe that's why they give two lancets
2021-07-15T02:17:03 < mawk> but by constantly massaging away from the heart to the tip of the finger I was able to make 4 nicely sized drops of blood, as well as a huge mess everywhere
2021-07-15T02:17:51 < mawk> the test looks like this: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210715011730692.png
2021-07-15T02:19:35 < mawk> anti-A and anti-rhesus D match, so A+
2021-07-15T02:21:16 < kakium69> china had little oopsie with blood donations and hiv in 90s
2021-07-15T02:21:31 < mawk> france too
2021-07-15T02:21:47 < mawk> it was a major scandal as health authorities knew and did nothing because blood makes good money
2021-07-15T02:21:53 < mawk> they willingly let hemophiliac get AIDS
2021-07-15T02:22:10 < mawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infected_blood_scandal_(France)
2021-07-15T02:22:58 < mawk> >France's infected blood scandal began in April 1991 when doctor and journalist Anne-Marie Casteret published an article in the weekly magazine the L'Événement du jeudi proving that the Centre National de Transfusion Sanguine knowingly distributed blood products contaminated with HIV to haemophiliacs in 1984 and 1985, causing a multi-national outbreak of HIV and hepatitis C.  In France 4700 people were contaminated, over 300 died.
2021-07-15T02:23:17 < mawk> they knew about the heating process that destroys HIV and did nothing because they wanted to develop their own national french patriotic process instead or something
2021-07-15T02:23:20 < mawk> and that killed people
2021-07-15T02:23:39 < kakium69> knowingly wtf
2021-07-15T02:25:01 < kakium69> in china they separated plasma and returned the blood without plasma to donor
2021-07-15T02:25:41 < mawk> why
2021-07-15T02:25:49 < mawk> for removing hiv?
2021-07-15T02:25:58 < kakium69> idk
2021-07-15T02:26:07 < mawk> it's common to separate blood products
2021-07-15T02:26:16 < mawk> hemophiliacs need only one specific blood factor
2021-07-15T02:26:45 < mawk> injured people need only red blood cells that you rehydrate with serum
2021-07-15T02:26:46 < mawk> and so on
2021-07-15T02:27:12 < mawk> or lance armstrong when he needs to climb the Mont Ventoûx at the speed of a moped
2021-07-15T02:27:14 < kakium69> is it normal to get plasma out and return the rest to donor?
2021-07-15T02:27:25 < mawk> I don't think it's normal to return anything to the donor
2021-07-15T02:27:37 < mawk> but maybe china has a culinary tradition of making human blood sausage, I don't know
2021-07-15T02:28:15 < kakium69> aha
2021-07-15T02:28:34 < kakium69> if you put stuff back to donor.. he/she can donate more often
2021-07-15T02:28:41 < kakium69> = more
2021-07-15T02:28:44 < mawk> ah yeah maybe
2021-07-15T02:29:13 < sauce> isnt that a totally standard process for plasma donation?
2021-07-15T02:29:41 < kakium69> there was one problem though.. donors got their blood back from a collective blood container
2021-07-15T02:29:48 < sauce> lol
2021-07-15T02:29:57 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T02:30:16 < mawk> maybe in countries that have high stock on other blood products sauce 
2021-07-15T02:30:25 < mawk> but I suppose if your stock is chronically low you'd just take everything
2021-07-15T02:32:27 < kakium69> maybe in 90s western style of medicine was still a new thing there
2021-07-15T02:32:43 < mawk> well even today
2021-07-15T02:32:54 < mawk> the CCP propaganda is still big on "traditional chinese medicine works"
2021-07-15T02:33:09 < mawk> and "tradition chinese martial art is borderline magic"
2021-07-15T02:33:12 < kakium69> but is it though?
2021-07-15T02:33:18 < kakium69> after 2019
2021-07-15T02:33:19 < mawk> does it work? no
2021-07-15T02:33:26 < mawk> after 2019? yes
2021-07-15T02:33:49 < mawk> the CCP propaganda office known as chinese ambassy in france spent days tweeting about how chinese traditional medicine can cure the virus
2021-07-15T02:35:27 < kakium69> I remember they had that phase
2021-07-15T02:37:54 < kakium69> but I have hard time beliving it's about anything more than profits and to control dialect
2021-07-15T02:38:37 < GenTooMan> mawk, reality is they are propaganda think of them as the idiot US news reporters.
2021-07-15T02:38:48 < kakium69> hey I should donate blood
2021-07-15T02:39:05 < GenTooMan> you play rugby then?
2021-07-15T02:39:13 < kakium69> when I crash my moped my own blood is already waiting at the hospital
2021-07-15T02:39:37 < mawk> how long can you keep it at the hospital?
2021-07-15T02:39:45 < mawk> I heard doped athletes do that
2021-07-15T02:39:57 < mawk> they go up high in the mountain, they bike a lot to make more red blood cells, then draw their blood
2021-07-15T02:40:06 < mawk> and reinject it when back at sea level altitude
2021-07-15T02:40:25 < kakium69> blood doping
2021-07-15T02:40:26 < mawk> you have to not be afraid of needles to do the tour de france
2021-07-15T02:41:14 < mawk> I see GenTooMan 
2021-07-15T02:41:48 < kakium69> mawk: yeah and they load litres of blood at once
2021-07-15T02:42:07 < kakium69> with big needle
2021-07-15T02:42:11 < mawk> that must hurt
2021-07-15T02:42:14 < mawk> overpressure
2021-07-15T02:42:52 < mawk> why don't they just inject red blood cells instead?
2021-07-15T02:43:01 < mawk> they don't need the other useless stuff
2021-07-15T02:43:03 < mawk> just the nice O2
2021-07-15T02:43:11 < GenTooMan> mawk sad but true, the US journalists were "shocked" when they found out that 80% of the people in the US said they were lying.
2021-07-15T02:43:23 < kakium69> maybe they do mawk
2021-07-15T02:43:52 < GenTooMan> more red blood cells might help deliver more oxygen?
2021-07-15T02:43:57 < mawk> yes
2021-07-15T02:44:06 < mawk> red blood cell is your O2 carrier
2021-07-15T02:44:57 < mawk> in the middle of hemoglobine you have a molecule called heme that can carry O2 molecules in his suitcase
2021-07-15T02:45:34 < GenTooMan> so they are basically doing that to give themselves an edge in racing .. kind of questionable.
2021-07-15T02:45:41 < mawk> it's actually quite interesting how many function of the human body are centered around the fact O2 is so reactive so must be handled with care when carrying it to the organs
2021-07-15T02:46:00 < mawk> the whole fact we shit is because of have to get rid of the toxic components of red blood cells that help to carry O2
2021-07-15T02:46:10 < mawk> shit is brown because it's a mush of expired red blood cells
2021-07-15T02:46:13 < mawk> it's like dark red
2021-07-15T02:47:23 < kakium69> interesting new information
2021-07-15T02:47:36 < GenTooMan> that and excess matter that couldn't be digested like plant fibre.
2021-07-15T02:47:49 < mawk> the excess matter could be vomited or something
2021-07-15T02:47:59 < mawk> if we didn't have to excrete red blood cells our bodies would be quite different I think
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2021-07-15T02:54:28 < GenTooMan> well red blood cells are uncharacteristic of typical cells in ones body so exception. That would also explain the odour of flatus because of protein break down adding probably mercaptans to make things pleasant.
2021-07-15T02:55:13 < kakium69> why doesnt body recycle blood cells?
2021-07-15T02:55:30 < kakium69> it's not "profitable" but why
2021-07-15T02:55:36 < mawk> it's toxic kakium69 
2021-07-15T02:55:41 < mawk> the body wants to get rid of it asap
2021-07-15T02:55:48 < kakium69> blood cells?
2021-07-15T02:56:28 < kakium69> you mean oxygen becomes uncontained when cell fails?
2021-07-15T02:56:53 < GenTooMan> it's what's used to transport the oxygen that needs contained I suspect.
2021-07-15T02:57:00 < mawk> yes
2021-07-15T02:57:16 < mawk> in red blood cells you have a molecule called heme that contains a kind of oxydized iron
2021-07-15T02:57:19 < mawk> and that's the toxic thing
2021-07-15T02:57:42 < mawk> I think when the hemoglobin dies you want to get rid of the iron quick
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2021-07-15T02:58:37 < GenTooMan> I believe the body has a tendency to get cancer with too much iron in it. I can't remember which it is.
2021-07-15T02:59:23 < mawk> ah and I didn't know but the yellow of pee is also because of a degradation product of heme
2021-07-15T02:59:25 < mawk> cool
2021-07-15T02:59:42 < mawk> GenTooMan: >There is an association between high intake of heme iron sourced from meat and increased risk of colon cancer.[46] The heme content of red meat is 10 times higher than that of white meat such as chicken.[47] A 2019 review found that heme iron intake is associated with increased breast cancer risk.[48]
2021-07-15T02:59:44 < mawk> this?
2021-07-15T03:01:13 < mawk> GenTooMan: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210715011730692.png
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2021-07-15T03:02:22 < kakium69> ah but if you eat it then you get the iron recycled?
2021-07-15T03:02:36 < mawk> eat what kakium69 ?
2021-07-15T03:02:38 < mawk> the shit?
2021-07-15T03:02:44 < mawk> there are different forms of iron
2021-07-15T03:02:53 < mawk> the iron in 2+ oxydation state specifically is toxic
2021-07-15T03:02:58 < mawk> the one from food is probably in a different oxydation state
2021-07-15T03:03:06 < kakium69> even as eaten?
2021-07-15T03:03:17 < mawk> I guess
2021-07-15T03:03:21 < GenTooMan> They found truck drivers (who eat a lot of red meat because of take out) tend to have such issues. Also apricots have a lot of iron the article said.
2021-07-15T03:03:24 < mawk> I'm not sure what stomach acid would do to iron
2021-07-15T03:03:44 < GenTooMan> iron chloride?
2021-07-15T03:04:26 < kakium69> mawk: make it into rust
2021-07-15T03:04:39 < GenTooMan> or Ferric Chloride is another term, it's toxic.
2021-07-15T03:04:54 < BrainDamage> you can etch pcb with it
2021-07-15T03:05:00 < mawk> ferrous GenTooMan 
2021-07-15T03:05:01 < mawk> not ferric
2021-07-15T03:05:02 < mawk> iirc
2021-07-15T03:05:13 < kakium69> i'm just thinking
2021-07-15T03:05:14 < mawk> yes ferrous
2021-07-15T03:05:15 < GenTooMan> mawk probably. :D at least i didn't say furry LOL
2021-07-15T03:05:19 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T03:05:21 < kakium69> at tough spot
2021-07-15T03:05:28 < kakium69> do I eat my own shit or not
2021-07-15T03:05:28 < BrainDamage> also, fwiw, oxygen is toxic in high concentrations
2021-07-15T03:05:45 < BrainDamage> you can breathe pur oxygen at atmospheric pressure
2021-07-15T03:06:01 < GenTooMan> so is water be cautious of your DMHMO intake.
2021-07-15T03:06:03 < BrainDamage> but if you dive even just 5m, it'll start corroding your body
2021-07-15T03:06:23 < BrainDamage> the ld50 dose of water is quite high
2021-07-15T03:09:01 < GenTooMan> yes but it does happen every year someone dies of too much water.
2021-07-15T03:09:43 < BrainDamage> you can die of water poisoning too btw
2021-07-15T03:10:04 < BrainDamage> you don't have to breathe it to die, you can die swallowing it
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2021-07-15T03:12:04 < englishman> it seems strange to me that someone wouldn't know their blood type. it just seems like something that you'd know. i don't know at which exact age i learned my blood type. i feel it's just something you always know, that you go home from the hospital with.
2021-07-15T03:12:32 < englishman> also told to you every time you donate blood.
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2021-07-15T03:14:45 < mawk> I never donated blood englishman 
2021-07-15T03:14:52 < mawk> and the only times I've been in the hospital was for drug overdoses
2021-07-15T03:14:55 < mawk> or as a baby
2021-07-15T03:15:05 < mawk> the doctors never wrote down the blood type on my health carnet
2021-07-15T03:15:18 < mawk> but now I know it, A+
2021-07-15T03:16:57 < BrainDamage> I don't know my blood type
2021-07-15T03:17:27 < mawk> do you want my kit BrainDamage ?
2021-07-15T03:17:31 < mawk> if Steffanx doesn't want it
2021-07-15T03:17:46 < BrainDamage> no, it's written on my birth certificate
2021-07-15T03:17:52 < BrainDamage> I just never had too look
2021-07-15T03:17:57 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T03:18:09 < mawk> I don't know where is my birth certificate
2021-07-15T03:18:13 < mawk> I can always ask the city hall I guess
2021-07-15T03:18:40 < BrainDamage> I know it's not the same as my mother's tho
2021-07-15T03:18:56 < BrainDamage> I was born with severe jaundice because her antibodies attacked my blood
2021-07-15T03:19:27 < BrainDamage> my sister before me already had a milder form, and by my time, my mother's immune system got training
2021-07-15T03:19:51 < GenTooMan> o- here though to be honest I've never heard of anyone having o+ 
2021-07-15T03:20:23 < BrainDamage> rejoyce, you can get plasma by anyone
2021-07-15T03:20:43 < BrainDamage> AB instead can only get plasma by AB
2021-07-15T03:21:06 < BrainDamage> for plasma it goes the opposite of red blood cells
2021-07-15T03:21:20 < mawk> now they immunize the mother I think BrainDamage 
2021-07-15T03:21:22 < mawk> for this condition
2021-07-15T03:23:17 < zyp> GenTooMan, I've got o+
2021-07-15T03:24:19 < zyp> initially found out when we ran tests on ourselves in a science lab in high school, then confirmed when I later became a blood donor
2021-07-15T03:24:56 < mawk> you mixed your blood with that of your mates?
2021-07-15T03:25:04 < mawk> and tries when it coagulates or not
2021-07-15T03:25:16 < zyp> mixed with antibody serums
2021-07-15T03:25:24 < mawk> a
2021-07-15T03:26:07 < zyp> but yeah, only tested ABO there, not RhD
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2021-07-15T03:27:16 < zyp> I'm also not sure what type my kid is, I don't think that's been tested and I don't expect it will any time soon either
2021-07-15T03:28:24 < zyp> but my wife also knows her type, so that narrows it down to one out of two
2021-07-15T03:29:16 < mawk> use my kit 
2021-07-15T03:29:45 < zyp> *your* kit?
2021-07-15T03:29:53 < mawk> the kit in my possession
2021-07-15T03:30:03 < BrainDamage> just slightly used
2021-07-15T03:30:05 < mawk> lol
2021-07-15T03:30:12 < mawk> no it's still in the sterile envelope
2021-07-15T03:30:13 < mawk> I had two
2021-07-15T03:33:40 < BrainDamage> maybe he could send you his blood instead, and device a chilled transportation mechanism
2021-07-15T03:33:48 < BrainDamage> i feel like laurenceb would approve this
2021-07-15T03:33:59 < BrainDamage> maybe custom delivered with a catapult
2021-07-15T03:34:34 < englishman> how old and coagulated can the blood be
2021-07-15T03:34:35 < zyp> haha
2021-07-15T03:38:06 < zyp> mawk, not sure it'd be worth the shipping cost vs just buying one locally
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2021-07-15T03:38:41 < zyp> but if you feel like getting rid of it, feel free to send it :p
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2021-07-15T03:39:27 < mawk> zyp: the only place I could buy it was USA
2021-07-15T03:39:38 < mawk> I don't think you'd find it locally
2021-07-15T03:40:28 < zyp> they're available from norwegian online pharmacies at least
2021-07-15T03:40:31 < zyp> e.g. https://www.med24.no/hjemmetest/blodtypetest/blodtype-test-eldoncard
2021-07-15T03:40:32 < mawk> would the child support being stinged in the finger to get a few drops of blood?
2021-07-15T03:40:39 < mawk> ah right
2021-07-15T03:40:42 < mawk> .no is more advanced than .nl
2021-07-15T03:41:01 < mawk> also is the child older than 1 years
2021-07-15T03:41:05 < mawk> otherwise it doesn't work
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2021-07-15T04:47:55 < jadew> who can guess what I have here and can tell why it is so cool? http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210715_043157_.jpg
2021-07-15T04:49:59 < jadew> damn it, it's super late again
2021-07-15T05:02:22 < octorian> Obviously some RF thing in a machined metal box, but beyond that I haven't a clue.
2021-07-15T05:04:06 < jadew> it's a start :)
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2021-07-15T13:49:39 < jadew> https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-01-13-china-suicide-military-helmets-self-destruct-button.html
2021-07-15T13:51:05 < jadew> you find the encryption key, you win the war
2021-07-15T13:52:40 < jadew> on the other hand, they could sell them to their enemies, so not only would they be low quality, but they would also be explosive
2021-07-15T13:54:11 < jadew> when wearing chinese tactical gear, you have to turn off your phone to avoid interference, otherwise your helmet could go off
2021-07-15T13:57:36 < jadew> core rules for when in combat: "don't fall with your helmet on!"
2021-07-15T14:00:31 < jadew> the label probably reads: "Protect from sunlight. Do not pierce or burn."
2021-07-15T14:04:06 < jadew> when they hand you the helmet, they ask you if you have a hat for the helmet, or if you would prefer the standard issue sombrero
2021-07-15T14:05:56 < jadew> ok, I think I'm out of explosive hat jokes
2021-07-15T14:15:34 < ventyl> how's that new helmet? bombastic!
2021-07-15T14:17:06 < jadew> sounds like fake news tho, I don't think anyone would do that
2021-07-15T14:17:36 < jadew> for one, there are easier ways to achieve that - except the remote thing
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2021-07-15T15:06:08 < con3> Anyone willing to lend a helping hand with fdcan? I cant seem to get this thing to not drop messages. I have a G4 connected to an F446, The F4 seems to be working flawlessly, however the G4 seems to overrun and then the message lost bit is set
2021-07-15T15:06:29 < con3> F4 is using can 2.0B, the G4 is also setup in classic mode
2021-07-15T15:06:46 < jpa-> is your code reading out the messages fast enough?
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2021-07-15T15:08:31 < ventyl> and which HAL?
2021-07-15T15:09:46 < con3> jpa-: I assume so, at this point, I've removed everything from the interrupt. All it's doing is grabbing a message out of the fifp
2021-07-15T15:09:50 < con3> *fifo
2021-07-15T15:12:08 < jpa-> con3: put a GPIO toggle at start and end of the interrupt, and use a logic analyzer to see when the message arrives, how long the reading takes and when the next message arrives
2021-07-15T15:12:38 < ventyl> con3: if by any chance you try to use libopencm3, then there was a nasty bug which caused exactly what you observe. it was fixed recently
2021-07-15T15:12:42 < con3> will do jpa- , thank you
2021-07-15T15:12:56 < con3> ventyl: using good 'ol stm32 hal
2021-07-15T15:13:16 < ventyl> oh, I know almost nothing about it
2021-07-15T15:13:41 < ventyl> are there any other interrupts, which could potentially be blocking FDCAN?
2021-07-15T15:15:40 < con3> Not that I can see, the can interrupt has the highest priority after systick and then there's a uart running in DMA mode
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2021-07-15T15:50:22 < mawk> jadew: your site is suspicious
2021-07-15T15:50:23 < mawk> ALERT: Doctor says mRNA vaccines “will kill most people” through heart failure, 62% of vaccinated people already show microscopic blood clots - NaturalNews.com
2021-07-15T15:50:29 < mawk> SURVEY: People vaccinated for covid become more “magnetic” over time… the vaccine appears to be assembling magnetic nanoparticles in the blood - NaturalNews.com
2021-07-15T15:50:43 < mawk> also there's combination of american flag and christian cross in the header, that gives it away
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2021-07-15T15:52:33 < englishman> is he saying that of the people that die of the vaccine, most of them will be due to heart failure
2021-07-15T15:52:35 < englishman> because that makes sense
2021-07-15T15:54:47 < jpa-> nah, it is all just nonsense
2021-07-15T15:55:21 < jpa-> you could rearrange the words to make it less nonsense, but that is just because the headline happens to be a local minimum in the sensespace
2021-07-15T16:03:50 < BrainDamage> i predict that in 100 years all people in this channel's heart will have stopped
2021-07-15T16:04:00 < BrainDamage> stm32 is toxic like that
2021-07-15T16:14:05 < englishman> well now if you're right, it'll be your fault
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2021-07-15T16:47:45 < Steffanx> Hah, you made it con3  ;)
2021-07-15T16:51:18 < Steffanx> Peter died, mawk. Are you sad now?
2021-07-15T16:51:25 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2021-07-15T16:51:30 < mawk> I just heard it
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2021-07-15T17:31:11 < PaulFertser> Peter Mamonov? :(
2021-07-15T17:36:48 < PaulFertser> He was explicit about refusing to vaccinate and convinced his wife not to vaccinate too.
2021-07-15T17:45:04 < ventyl> did he die of accidental poisoning then?
2021-07-15T17:46:34 < PaulFertser> ventyl: no, COVID-19, pneumonia, coma.
2021-07-15T17:49:17 < PaulFertser> I hope he didn't regret the decision.
2021-07-15T17:50:09 < Streaker> I saw a news article that quoted an American nurse saying that Covid-19 deniers were refusing to believe that they had Covid right up to the moment they died.
2021-07-15T17:51:37 < ventyl> i've seen several reports by doctors saying that
2021-07-15T17:52:31 < ventyl> often people assume, that it is just a flu and it will be ok, because covid doesn't exist. and if it isn't they accuse hospital of poisoning them or giving them covid... which doesn't exist
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2021-07-15T18:48:28 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: No, some Dutch reported/investigator/tv guy, got shot in the middle of amsterdam
2021-07-15T18:48:37 < Steffanx> Reporter*
2021-07-15T18:49:01 < Steffanx> But this guy refused protection as well 😅
2021-07-15T18:49:16 < tct> he just died, right?
2021-07-15T18:49:19 < Steffanx> Yeah
2021-07-15T18:49:32 < tct> I've been told that he was shot in the head
2021-07-15T18:49:39 < tct> how did he stay alive for so long?
2021-07-15T18:51:08 < Steffanx> "Alive"
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2021-07-15T18:54:11 < jadew> my grandmother refused to believe she had covid while she was sick with it
2021-07-15T18:54:34 < jpa-> tct: it is not *that* rare to survive a shot in the head
2021-07-15T18:54:39 < jadew> it was awful for me, because she was under the impression that I keep her isolated for no reason
2021-07-15T18:54:42 < jpa-> some 5-10%
2021-07-15T18:55:41 < Xogium> I'm guessing if the bullet avoids hitting any vital part of the brain, or if it somehow avoids the whole brain entirely, then you could survive a shot
2021-07-15T18:56:17 < jadew> which part of the brain is not vital? :)
2021-07-15T18:56:21 < specing> you can easily survive if it goes through your mouth, you'll just have to eat by straw till the rest of your life
2021-07-15T18:56:44 < Xogium> visual cortex ?
2021-07-15T18:56:54 < Xogium> I mean, sure you can get blind but
2021-07-15T18:56:57 < jpa-> depends on type of bullet also, the shock wave and bleeding are apparently a bigger problem than the damage to the parts of brain directly in line with the bullet
2021-07-15T18:57:23 < jpa-> after all, people can have big parts of brain removed surgically with quite good survival
2021-07-15T18:57:50 < jadew> I feel icky thinking about this
2021-07-15T18:58:20 < jadew> can you make two people from one brain?
2021-07-15T18:58:29 < jpa-> yes
2021-07-15T18:58:36 < jadew> I've heard that too
2021-07-15T18:58:37 < Xogium> sure, why not
2021-07-15T18:58:46 < jpa-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain
2021-07-15T18:59:58 < Xogium> heh this isn't some of the craziest stuff around ;) there's one disease, I can't remember the name, where people basically think they are dead. Like, decaying dead
2021-07-15T19:00:17 < Xogium> and so they don't eat, don't drink, etc, because they think they don't need to, and end up actual dead
2021-07-15T19:01:22 < Xogium> the brain can be such a weird thing
2021-07-15T19:02:36 < jadew> maybe we can make it so brain transplants are mandatory for people without one
2021-07-15T19:03:55 < jadew> I think there was a successful head transplant done on monkeys, no?
2021-07-15T19:05:56 < jadew> would make an even bigger mess of the gender issue
2021-07-15T19:06:28 < jpa-> IIRC it was "successful" only in that the monkey didn't immediately die
2021-07-15T19:08:36 < jadew> looks successful to me: https://images.newscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/fig.1b.jpg?width=800
2021-07-15T19:09:16 < jpa-> i would consider it successful only if the monkey was able to control the body afterwards :)
2021-07-15T19:09:20 < jpa-> (and sense)
2021-07-15T19:21:18 < bitmask> anyone play any electric string instruments?
2021-07-15T19:21:37 < bitmask> are there filters you can make or buy that soften the harshness?
2021-07-15T19:22:58 < BrainDamage> compressor with a fast attack
2021-07-15T19:23:19 < sauce> https://www.amazon.ca/ammoon-Guitar-Equalizer-Effect-7-Band/dp/B075FS7PH4/
2021-07-15T19:24:14 < bitmask> interesting
2021-07-15T19:26:17 < bitmask> gonna try 3d printing a cello for the gf
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2021-07-15T19:26:38 < t4nk_freenode> yeah, that'll work
2021-07-15T19:26:44 < bitmask> heh
2021-07-15T19:26:49 < sauce> sounds like a 10k hour project to me
2021-07-15T19:27:05 < sauce> at least making one that doesn't suck
2021-07-15T19:27:17 < bitmask> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1703629
2021-07-15T19:28:35 < t4nk_freenode> just buy the real thing
2021-07-15T19:29:01 < bitmask> do you know how much cellos cost
2021-07-15T19:29:19 < bitmask> this is a good idea for a starter cello imo
2021-07-15T19:29:29 < bitmask> see if she even likes it
2021-07-15T19:29:34 < t4nk_freenode> not really, but I guess it's the reason
2021-07-15T19:30:01 < t4nk_freenode> she can't decide if she likes a cello, based upon that.. because it's a pile of rubbish ;)
2021-07-15T19:30:57 < t4nk_freenode> I played cello once btw... wasn't a great success.
2021-07-15T19:31:53 < bitmask> whatever man, i think its a good step rather than spending thousands of dollars at first
2021-07-15T19:32:02 < sauce> (rent one)
2021-07-15T19:32:04 < bitmask> although shit, looking on ebay it looks like theres cheaper used ones
2021-07-15T19:32:10 < lemmi> thousands of dollars?
2021-07-15T19:32:21 < bitmask> didnt realize, i thought a thousand was gonna be the minimum
2021-07-15T19:32:25 < lemmi> an entry cello shouldn't be more than 200-300
2021-07-15T19:32:26 < bitmask> that changes things
2021-07-15T19:32:32 < Steffanx> 😆
2021-07-15T19:34:17 < bitmask> well i guess that saves me some time :P
2021-07-15T19:34:28 < t4nk_freenode> 'whatever man'
2021-07-15T19:35:21 < Steffanx> Such optimism today, t4nk_freenode 
2021-07-15T19:35:26 < bitmask> well you didnt tell me the price, its your fault, my thoughts were valid when i misknew the price :P
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2021-07-15T19:35:34 < t4nk_freenode> yes, I've been out in the rain, Steffanx ;)
2021-07-15T19:35:48 < t4nk_freenode> bought myself a bigger umbrella underway
2021-07-15T19:35:50 < t4nk_freenode> *sigh*
2021-07-15T19:36:09 < Steffanx> 1k+?
2021-07-15T19:36:42 < t4nk_freenode> I'm contemplating 3d printing one
2021-07-15T19:36:49 < bitmask> haha asshole
2021-07-15T19:36:52 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-07-15T19:37:20 < sauce> a cello rental at L&M is $40 a month
2021-07-15T19:37:51 < bitmask> didnt know you could rent em like that
2021-07-15T19:41:08 < t4nk_freenode> Bach's cello suites are nice
2021-07-15T19:44:25 < t4nk_freenode> too bad that in his time... there were probably only 3 cello's in the world that had strings on them
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2021-07-15T20:09:31 < bitmask> fuck, i thought my airbrush had a trigger limiter but it doesnt, lame
2021-07-15T20:12:41 < jpa-> now it is fully triggered and posting woke stuff on twitter?
2021-07-15T20:13:20 < bitmask> you got it
2021-07-15T20:15:51 < PaulFertser> That 3d-printed cello has one advantage over renting one if you live in a multi-apartment house. Real violin or cello is really loud.
2021-07-15T20:19:41 < bitmask> that and space, i mentioned the price of a real cello and she said the main thing she liked was that it takes up less space
2021-07-15T20:20:52 < bitmask> we live in a single family home with her family, so im not sure if her family would mind the noise or not, but we are limited to our room and the attic for storage/playing area
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2021-07-15T20:33:09 < kakium69> "After years of studying it, I believe that cryptocurrency is an inherently right-wing, hyper-capitalistic technology built primarily to amplify the wealth of its proponents through a combination of tax avoidance, diminished regulatory oversight and artificially enforced scarcity."
2021-07-15T20:34:38 < kakium69> hyper-capitalistic!
2021-07-15T21:00:20 < PaulFertser> The features mentioned seem to be all true for bitcoin and similar currencies.
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2021-07-15T21:31:45 < jadew> Steffanx, PaulFertser, who was Peter Mamonov?
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2021-07-15T21:32:24 < PaulFertser> jadew: famous soviet/russian rock musician and actor.
2021-07-15T21:32:43 < jadew> why was he important to you guys?
2021-07-15T21:32:54 < Steffanx> Idk who peter mamonov is. 
2021-07-15T21:33:07 < jadew> then which Peter died?
2021-07-15T21:33:43 < Steffanx> Some Dutch peter you never heard of either
2021-07-15T21:33:53 < jadew> ah, k
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2021-07-15T22:29:37 < kakium69> dutch most inequal -world bank
2021-07-15T22:29:48 < kakium69> I would have never thought
2021-07-15T22:30:42 < kakium69> I thought everybody very equal and wealthy and ride bicycles everywhere
2021-07-15T22:31:08 < kakium69> and high salaries for everyone
2021-07-15T22:34:10 < kakium69> Steffann
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2021-07-15T22:35:23 < kakium69> it could be explained by having so many megacorporations
2021-07-15T22:36:28 < kakium69> and families that have collected billions through generations
2021-07-15T22:40:08 < Steffann> im not convinced about dutchland with the most inequality.
2021-07-15T22:40:25 < Steffann> yankeeland.. south-american countries...
2021-07-15T22:40:25 < kakium69> nobody is
2021-07-15T22:41:40 < kakium69> south-africa
2021-07-15T22:41:45 < kakium69> highest
2021-07-15T22:41:53 < kakium69> anyway.. fake news
2021-07-15T22:43:46 < kakium69> south-africa is the highest by far
2021-07-15T22:44:40 < kakium69> netherlands seems to be similar to nordics
2021-07-15T22:47:00 < PaulFertser> kakium69: what about Sweden specifically?
2021-07-15T22:47:34 < kakium69> it's basically same with norway, finland, denmark
2021-07-15T22:47:49 < kakium69> 27-29 in gini index
2021-07-15T22:48:03 < PaulFertser> Hm, I thought they have some very special very progressive taxation that makes for more equality.
2021-07-15T22:48:17 < kakium69> sure
2021-07-15T22:48:43 < kakium69> but they are rich too
2021-07-15T22:50:02 < kakium69> but one interesting statistic about sweden: most single resident households percentage
2021-07-15T22:50:38 < kakium69> or was it people percentage living in single household
2021-07-15T22:52:22 < jadew> "The English manual has 14 pages and is too little detailed for me. The Chinese manual has 44 pages, but I don't understand Chinese.
2021-07-15T22:52:24 < jadew> "
2021-07-15T22:52:28 < kakium69> 47% of households are single person households
2021-07-15T22:52:40 < kakium69> that is way more than in any other country
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2021-07-15T22:52:43 < qyx> jadew: :D
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2021-07-15T23:39:15 < kakium69> anyone know what is happening in afganistan after US coalition left?
2021-07-15T23:42:47 < PaulFertser> Taliban is taking over apparently. And some of their members have already visited russia and promised they won't cross Tajikistan border (but their promises worth nothing). They're officially banned and considered terrorists in russia and yet foreign affairs minister met them :)
2021-07-15T23:43:46 < kakium69> well aren't they friends nevertheless?
2021-07-15T23:43:56 < PaulFertser> Friends to whom?
2021-07-15T23:44:34 < kakium69> taliban and russian goverment?
2021-07-15T23:45:15 < PaulFertser> I do not think they were ever friends, no. They are really dangerous as fuck and the government wants to continue ripping off russian people without any danger.
2021-07-15T23:45:46 < kakium69> I don't know but I assume in every conflict there is only 2 or maybe 3 places you can get weapons and supplies to keep fighting
2021-07-15T23:46:03 < kakium69> you get weapons from USA, Russia or China
2021-07-15T23:46:13 < specing> or all three
2021-07-15T23:46:24 < kakium69> hmm :)
2021-07-15T23:47:01 < kakium69> also japan making the bestest war machine
2021-07-15T23:47:12 < kakium69> Toyota Hilux
2021-07-15T23:47:28 < PaulFertser> Where was Al-Qaeda getting arms from? The States? What about the IS these days?
2021-07-15T23:47:39 < kakium69> true true
2021-07-15T23:47:59 < kakium69> AL-Qaeda got weapons from US
2021-07-15T23:48:10 < kakium69> when they were friends
2021-07-15T23:50:42 < PaulFertser> Looks like partisan wars in the mountains can be fought succesfully with few simple weapons. Remember when the USSR invaded Afganistan it was plenty of helis, tanks, other heavy equipment against machine guns, grenades and RPGs.
2021-07-15T23:53:26 < kakium69> afganistan bankrupted ussr
2021-07-15T23:53:53 < kakium69> why ussr went to afganistan btw?
2021-07-15T23:54:09 < kakium69> geopolitics somehow I don't remember
--- Day changed Fri Jul 16 2021
2021-07-16T00:00:14 < PaulFertser> Was the last cold era proxy war I guess.
2021-07-16T00:11:54 < kakium69> what are us troops doing now?
2021-07-16T00:12:58 < PaulFertser> Fleeing?
2021-07-16T00:13:09 < kakium69> ye
2021-07-16T00:13:11 < kakium69> but
2021-07-16T00:13:38 < kakium69> after that
2021-07-16T00:13:55 < kakium69> chill a bit?
2021-07-16T00:16:18 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/x19OwuL
2021-07-16T00:20:31 < kakium69> a magic box
2021-07-16T00:20:43 < bitmask> yessir
2021-07-16T00:20:45 < kakium69> provides electricity, water and light
2021-07-16T00:20:50 < kakium69> and cold
2021-07-16T00:21:56 < bitmask> :)
2021-07-16T00:23:47 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71fLFOjruFc
2021-07-16T00:24:09 < kakium69> a finnish folk lore about a magic box
2021-07-16T00:29:37 < bitmask> is it a vagina
2021-07-16T00:31:26 < kakium69> nope
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2021-07-16T01:58:55 < bitmask> ohhh yea
2021-07-16T01:59:08 < bitmask> cold plate gets to -27C in a 31C room
2021-07-16T01:59:38 < bitmask> i should be able to get like -38C under better conditions
2021-07-16T02:02:42 < bitmask> oh shit, its actually still slowly getting colder, -29C
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2021-07-16T10:08:28 < tct> human breasts
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2021-07-16T11:45:10 < Steffanx> Im getting more and more scared by you guys. One collects radio active materials, another knows all about the survival rates of getting shot in the head and the other has human breasts for dinner.
2021-07-16T11:48:17 < Steffanx> Or maybe breakfast
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2021-07-16T12:40:38 < zyp> Steffanx, and then there's you
2021-07-16T12:42:03 < Steffanx> Yeah, but thats just me
2021-07-16T12:44:49 < zyp> bad enough, if you ask me :)
2021-07-16T12:46:14 < Steffanx> I know right
2021-07-16T12:49:44 < Steffanx> Zyp is alright too?
2021-07-16T12:52:11 < zyp> sure
2021-07-16T12:52:42 < tct> Steffanx, I thought you'd knew me well enough to know that that is one of the least bizzare "things"
2021-07-16T13:05:18 < sauce> i am glad my own nefarious plans have not been revealed
2021-07-16T13:25:03 < mawk> what are they sauce ?
2021-07-16T13:26:07 < mawk> you don't eat titties on a regular basis Steffanx ???
2021-07-16T13:27:49 < mawk> that makes you like super gay
2021-07-16T13:35:36 < mawk> classical french music https://youtu.be/DWNKOzq6dZ0
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2021-07-16T14:40:04 < Streaker> mawk: you're only supposed to chew on them, not swallow
2021-07-16T15:08:25 < jpa-> Steffanx: we should all travel together to a island for a vacation, with no contact to the outside world and see what happens
2021-07-16T15:10:17 < Steffanx> Awesomw
2021-07-16T15:10:19 < Steffanx> E
2021-07-16T15:10:23 < zyp> island, iceland, same difference
2021-07-16T15:12:55 < jpa-> yeah
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2021-07-16T16:18:51 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: qyx, yukam, fest, Steffanx, tct
2021-07-16T16:19:57 < jpa-> it's kind of funny how ebay lets me buy without reauth, but to see my purchase history i always have to re-enter my password
2021-07-16T16:20:25 < jpa-> i guess purchases can always be disputed, but if someone sees my shameful purchase history, there is no taking it back :)
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2021-07-16T16:23:51 < zyp> makes sense :)
2021-07-16T16:24:45 < jpa-> hmm.. but actually it seems that i can see purchase history, but not clicking "View order details" triggers the login prompt
2021-07-16T16:29:10 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2021-07-16T16:32:20 < englishman> with the double 5g upgrade can i go to europe?
2021-07-16T16:33:16 < englishman> looks like a negative test and 14 day quarantine is still required
2021-07-16T16:33:38 < mawk> englishman: I doubt that but maybe
2021-07-16T16:33:51 < mawk> 15 days after 2nd dose you can ask for a "vaccine passport" and go wherever in europe
2021-07-16T16:34:04 < englishman> can't you already go wherever in europe?
2021-07-16T16:34:09 < qyx> no
2021-07-16T16:34:18 < englishman> shenghen was suspended?
2021-07-16T16:34:28 < englishman> schengen
2021-07-16T16:34:50 < qyx> they are checking covid passes on borders
2021-07-16T16:34:55 < qyx> idk if all countries
2021-07-16T16:35:09 < englishman> wow eu has borders again? that's honestly news to me
2021-07-16T16:35:29 < jpa-> AFAIK you can go mostly everywhere, but there will be requirements and delays
2021-07-16T16:35:40 < jpa-> like, 14 days quarantines or mandatory tests etc.
2021-07-16T16:35:59 < qyx> yes, here you need either 2 doses of 5G or quarantine + test
2021-07-16T16:37:33 < englishman> looks like germoney is the same
2021-07-16T16:37:58 < englishman> so the borders are pretty open
2021-07-16T16:38:00 < englishman> (to canucks)
2021-07-16T16:38:04 < englishman> nice!
2021-07-16T16:38:49 < qyx> I would rather prepare for delays
2021-07-16T16:39:08 < englishman> sure, there are always long border delays in every country except switzerland
2021-07-16T16:39:52 < mawk> there's no delay going from france to netherlands
2021-07-16T16:39:57 < mawk> the cops just vaguely check your PCR test
2021-07-16T16:40:02 < mawk> they don't scan it, they don't check the date
2021-07-16T16:40:11 < mawk> just "there's a QR code on this thing? ok you can pass"
2021-07-16T16:41:11 < mawk> except if you're black then there's a delay
2021-07-16T16:41:17 < mawk> because they will search your baggage because of terrorist attacks
2021-07-16T16:41:22 < mawk> but if you're white they never check so it's fine
2021-07-16T16:44:14 < englishman> well I didn't even know there was a border between France and NL again, but now I know to expect delays
2021-07-16T16:50:47 < Steffann> I have to get one of those mandatory tests Monday for a trip to Denmark. Joy
2021-07-16T16:51:23 < qyx> I got about 15 in the past
2021-07-16T16:51:34 < Steffann> 15 tests? Joy
2021-07-16T16:53:15 < mawk> Steffann: 100€
2021-07-16T16:53:20 < mawk> they're ripping us off
2021-07-16T16:53:22 < mawk> it's 0€ in france
2021-07-16T16:53:44 < Steffann> 0€
2021-07-16T16:53:50 < mawk> nonsense
2021-07-16T16:53:55 < Steffann> Its free
2021-07-16T16:53:58 < mawk> the pcr test for travel cannot be the free GGD one
2021-07-16T16:54:02 < mawk> it doesn't give you travel certificate
2021-07-16T16:54:15 < mawk> you need to pay the money for a test + travel certificate
2021-07-16T16:54:18 < mawk> and it's around 100€
2021-07-16T16:54:24 < Steffann> I went to testenvoorjereis.nl and it told me it's free in july/august
2021-07-16T16:54:32 < mawk> why
2021-07-16T16:54:34 < mawk> who's paying
2021-07-16T16:54:45 < mawk> whyyyyyyyyy
2021-07-16T16:54:49 < Steffann> You and me I guess
2021-07-16T16:54:50 < mawk> I want a refund of all my previous tests
2021-07-16T16:54:52 < mawk> right now
2021-07-16T16:55:04 < Steffann> July/august = free it says
2021-07-16T16:55:10 < Steffann> And its a non GGD test
2021-07-16T16:55:44 < mawk> they say you can also upload your GGD test result to get a reiscertificaat
2021-07-16T16:55:53 < mawk> apparently
2021-07-16T16:56:23 < Steffann> Sí
2021-07-16T16:58:19 < mawk> sí señor
2021-07-16T16:59:25 < Steffann> Yo no hablo español 
2021-07-16T16:59:40 < mawk> no
2021-07-16T16:59:43 < mawk> I took german in highschool
2021-07-16T16:59:49 < mawk> while all the cool kids took spanish
2021-07-16T17:00:04 < mawk> and the weird kids took chinese or italian
2021-07-16T17:00:40 < Steffann> Here german is mandatory, french too
2021-07-16T17:00:45 < mawk> what
2021-07-16T17:00:49 < mawk> why are you not speaking french then
2021-07-16T17:00:55 < Steffann> I forgot
2021-07-16T17:01:00 < mawk> haven't you been paying attention in school??¿
2021-07-16T17:01:05 < Steffann> Je ne parle pas français.
2021-07-16T17:01:09 < mawk> :(
2021-07-16T17:01:11 < mawk> mais si
2021-07-16T17:01:18 < mawk> avec un peu de bonne volonté
2021-07-16T17:01:35 < Steffann> Je voudrais une kilo de peche 
2021-07-16T17:02:17 < Steffann> Lol no, I didnt care about french at all. Passed with minimum score 
2021-07-16T17:02:48 < mawk> I passed my german final exam cheating with the complicity of my german teacher
2021-07-16T17:02:59 < mawk> she liked me so much she couldn't refrain herself from telling me the good answers during the oral exam
2021-07-16T17:03:09 < mawk> so I had a 12/20 overall
2021-07-16T17:03:16 < Steffann> It's ... 18 (or something) years ago.
2021-07-16T17:03:18 < mawk> while german was usually my nap class
2021-07-16T17:03:29 < mawk> are you 50?
2021-07-16T17:03:35 < mawk> or 40 rather
2021-07-16T17:03:36 < Steffann> Only had 3 years.
2021-07-16T17:03:42  * mawk trained mathematician
2021-07-16T17:03:43 < mawk> ah
2021-07-16T17:03:46 < Steffann> It for 3 years.
2021-07-16T17:04:10 < mawk> I had 5 years of german
2021-07-16T17:04:21 < mawk> and a bit more of englich
2021-07-16T17:04:37 < Steffann> And 1 year of dutch
2021-07-16T17:04:47 < mawk> lol
2021-07-16T17:05:50 < Steffann> Can you swim, mawk?
2021-07-16T17:05:55 < Steffann> Water is coming 
2021-07-16T17:06:00 < mawk> of course
2021-07-16T17:06:04 < mawk> in zuid holland?
2021-07-16T17:06:14 < mawk> I even do scuba diving
2021-07-16T17:06:17 < Steffann> I think we lost t4nk_freenode 
2021-07-16T17:06:52 < mawk> tonight I make hamburgers
2021-07-16T17:06:54 < mawk> cool
2021-07-16T17:06:59 < mawk> I think he forgot who I am
2021-07-16T17:07:05 < mawk> now he's nice to me
2021-07-16T17:07:16 < mawk> but one time he said I was racist so I wasn't happy
2021-07-16T17:07:30 < Steffann> Youre Salcedo right.
2021-07-16T17:07:35 < mawk> you can say I am racist but you need good arguments
2021-07-16T17:07:49 < mawk> like you need to catch me when I don't pretend to be a leftist, among the right people
2021-07-16T17:07:53 < Steffann> No you dont, racist.
2021-07-16T17:07:57 < mawk> :(
2021-07-16T17:08:35 < mawk> I had a half black friend I can't be racist anyway
2021-07-16T17:08:37 < mawk> it's ultimate proof
2021-07-16T17:08:50 < mawk> he's doing actuarial science now
2021-07-16T17:08:58 < mawk> you need a special kind of mental illness to do that
2021-07-16T17:26:43 -!- tct_ is now known as tct
2021-07-16T17:28:56 < t4nk_freenode> lol
2021-07-16T17:29:02 < t4nk_freenode> still here
2021-07-16T17:29:48 < t4nk_freenode> ah well... just a matter of weeks now I guess..
2021-07-16T17:29:53 < t4nk_freenode> then we'll all be swimming
2021-07-16T17:30:00 < t4nk_freenode> nehow,
2021-07-16T17:30:13 < t4nk_freenode> yeah mawk, I'm a great man.. I never forget ;)
2021-07-16T17:30:27 < englishman> all the actuaries i know make $400k+
2021-07-16T17:30:46 < englishman> wasn't salcedo always complaining about being poor
2021-07-16T17:30:59 < englishman> despite constantly trying to scam and thieve people and ending up in federal prison
2021-07-16T17:32:22 < mawk> that's not why he got into prison englishman 
2021-07-16T17:32:26 < mawk> he didn't scam anyone
2021-07-16T17:32:34 < mawk> he tried to hack the credit card terminal of a hardware store
2021-07-16T17:32:40 < mawk> with help of a guy that was actually a FBI informant
2021-07-16T17:32:56 < mawk> and he got busted on the parking of the hardware store
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2021-07-16T18:11:46 < qyx> zyp: which ecp5 did you use exactlY?
2021-07-16T18:12:32 < qyx> mouser has nothing suitable in stock
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2021-07-16T19:23:59 < jpa-> mouser still has *some* ICs in stock?
2021-07-16T19:24:11  * jpa- goes buy them all
2021-07-16T19:27:01 < englishman> all the burr brown msc1210
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2021-07-16T19:31:03 < karlp> englishman: you can come here with just a vax cert, no border test and no quarantine.
2021-07-16T19:31:31 < karlp> though as of... _today_ I think they'r eabout to start doing testing as well, and isolate while waiting for the results, which is 4-8 hours.
2021-07-16T19:32:55 < karlp> also, pretty sure there's a border around germany holland belgium now.  about 10 feet of water that no-one can cross amirite?
2021-07-16T19:33:31 < qyx> :D
2021-07-16T19:34:01 < englishman> single or double dose cert?
2021-07-16T19:34:10 < qyx> double here
2021-07-16T19:34:13 < englishman> doesn't matter now I guess, everyone is eligible
2021-07-16T19:34:18 < englishman> I get my 2nd on Monday
2021-07-16T19:34:27 < qyx> wut is stm32u5
2021-07-16T19:34:52 < qyx> Down to 19 µA/MHz in active mode
2021-07-16T19:34:53 < englishman> did Holland run out of little boys with wooden shoes
2021-07-16T19:35:30 < Steffann> Uh?
2021-07-16T19:35:39 < karlp> englishman: we accept just about anything, including janssen.
2021-07-16T19:36:01 < karlp> Steffann: (keeping their dicsk in the dykes to keep the flooding at bay)
2021-07-16T19:36:08 < karlp> englishman: andno, this wasn't dyke failure...
2021-07-16T19:36:18 < karlp> u5 is months old now qyx, where you been? ;)
2021-07-16T19:37:38 < qyx> available in Q3-2021 HAHA
2021-07-16T19:37:39 < qyx> 2022 they meant
2021-07-16T19:37:58 < karlp> no, they really od mean now, they sounded in the training for it ike they were saying fuck off to other shit, and this was on a higher yield process or something
2021-07-16T19:38:02 < karlp> but who knows what reality is :)
2021-07-16T19:38:14 < jpa-> qyx: pretty low power usage for such huge RAM
2021-07-16T19:39:25 < qyx> yeah, so we can build our IoT with more pythons and javascripts
2021-07-16T19:39:42 < karlp> no, mor espace for edge ai models ;)
2021-07-16T19:40:10 < qyx> what for, detecting the amount of free butter in the fridge?
2021-07-16T19:40:18 < qyx> meh ai
2021-07-16T19:47:25 < qyx> so the max ADC I can get on stm32 is probably on H750 with 3x 16bit ADC, 3.6 MSPS each
2021-07-16T19:47:32 < qyx> but the specs are quite sad
2021-07-16T19:47:49 < karlp> one of the l4s or f3s does 5MSPS doesn't it?
2021-07-16T19:48:06 < qyx> F303 iirc
2021-07-16T19:48:13 < qyx> yeah but only 12 bit
2021-07-16T19:48:13 < jpa-> are you aiming for max speed or max bits?
2021-07-16T19:48:35 < qyx> I want to direct sample medium wave RF
2021-07-16T19:48:43 < qyx> so at least 6 MSPS
2021-07-16T19:49:01 < qyx> and ideally avoid PGA
2021-07-16T19:49:10 < jpa-> the H7 ADC is quite nice IMO, though actually achieving 16 bit at >3 MSps sampling is a bit difficult, needs fast opamp close to chip
2021-07-16T19:49:47 < qyx> but I am RF-dumb so probably didn't do the math properly
2021-07-16T19:51:03 < jpa-> what actual frequency range? 0.5 MHz to 1.6 MHz?
2021-07-16T19:52:43 < qyx> I was aiming for the full range, 0.3 - 3 MHz
2021-07-16T19:53:25 < jpa-> interlacing ADC1 & 2 would give you 7.2 MSps, or if you can make it IQ-sampling, that would work also
2021-07-16T19:53:28 < qyx> 3*3.6 MSPS in interleaved mode is sufficient
2021-07-16T19:53:43 < jpa-> can you actually interleave ADC3, though?
2021-07-16T19:53:50 < qyx> good point, idk
2021-07-16T19:55:59 < jpa-> i would probably treat it as IQ sampling anyway for the signal processing simplicity, but i guess that is pretty much equivalent to interleaving when you are using direct sampling
2021-07-16T19:56:20 < qyx> Dual ADC mode for ADC1 and 2
2021-07-16T19:56:36 < qyx> so you are right
2021-07-16T19:57:01 < qyx> isn't it the same if the samples are interleaved?
2021-07-16T19:57:29 < jpa-> yeah, i guess so
2021-07-16T19:58:02 < jpa-> my intuition says that there will be an annoying minus sign somewhere, but at least almost same :)
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2021-07-16T20:14:41 < mawk> do you like salmiak Steffann ?
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2021-07-16T20:19:50 < zyp> qyx, LFE5U-25F-6BG256C
2021-07-16T20:21:37 < qyx> jpa-: instead of direct sampling I may follow this http://ea4nz.cloudns.cc/sdr/sdr.html
2021-07-16T20:21:58 < zyp> qyx, also, suitable for what?
2021-07-16T20:22:49 < qyx> digital demod for 65 MSPS ADC
2021-07-16T20:22:54  * qyx @ play mode today
2021-07-16T20:24:08 < qyx> I am finding possibilities of polluting the RF with my first SDR attempt
2021-07-16T20:26:42 < Steffann> Sometimes mawk
2021-07-16T20:26:51 < mawk> ??????????
2021-07-16T20:26:51 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-16T20:26:56 < mawk> it's disgusting
2021-07-16T20:27:02 < mawk> shut up xnand
2021-07-16T20:28:13 < Steffann> Lol its nkt
2021-07-16T20:28:15 < Steffann> Not
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2021-07-16T20:29:10 < Steffann> You eat escargot
2021-07-16T20:29:47 < jpa-> Steffann: when you come to finland, we can go to the salmiak aisle in the supermarket
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2021-07-16T20:31:09  * Laurenceb is da boss
2021-07-16T20:32:14 < mawk> snail is tasty
2021-07-16T20:32:15 < jpa-> we always knew that you were PHB material
2021-07-16T20:32:24 < mawk> salmiak is just salt
2021-07-16T20:32:28 < mawk> worse than salt
2021-07-16T20:32:51 < mawk> saltier-salt wrapped in liquorice so they can still pretend it's candy
2021-07-16T20:34:30 < zyp> better go eat some snails instead then
2021-07-16T20:34:44 < mawk> you haven't tasted it zyp
2021-07-16T20:34:50 < mawk> it's delicious
2021-07-16T20:34:53 < mawk> snail is basically tasteless
2021-07-16T20:34:58 < mawk> the taste comes from the sauce
2021-07-16T20:35:04 < sauce> ;)
2021-07-16T20:35:10 < mawk> butter and parsley
2021-07-16T20:35:26 < mawk> I eat horse too
2021-07-16T20:35:31 < mawk> it's like beef but less fat
2021-07-16T20:35:35 < mawk> horse heart is very good
2021-07-16T20:35:38 < bitmask> oh boy oh boy, i get to test my cloud chamber today!
2021-07-16T20:40:13 < Steffann> Snail with salmiak hmm
2021-07-16T20:40:13 < Steffann> Yay, jpa-  😁
2021-07-16T20:41:11  * Laurenceb is soon to be lead firmware developer
2021-07-16T20:41:20 < mawk> oh no
2021-07-16T20:41:20 < Laurenceb> this is good but also bad
2021-07-16T20:41:26 < mawk> hyperloop will crash
2021-07-16T20:41:31 < Laurenceb> because I'm responsible for failures
2021-07-16T20:41:43 < mawk> better introduce formal methods
2021-07-16T20:41:58 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-07-16T20:50:00 < bitmask> can you measure an electric field with a gauss meter?
2021-07-16T20:50:03 < bitmask> somehow
2021-07-16T20:50:14 < mawk> if it's changing maybe
2021-07-16T20:50:18 < mawk> but why would you do that
2021-07-16T20:51:05 < mawk> measure electric fields the normal way
2021-07-16T20:51:05 < bitmask> heh, just trying to find a way to make sure my field generator is working, i guess just viewing the effect should be enough
2021-07-16T20:51:05 < bitmask> mawk how
2021-07-16T20:51:45 < mawk> https://www.faulhaber.com/en/markets/precision-monitoring-measuring/electric-field-meters/
2021-07-16T20:51:53 < mawk> that's just the first link
2021-07-16T20:51:58 < mawk> this is for high voltage
2021-07-16T20:51:59 < bitmask> oh, i didnt wanna buy anything
2021-07-16T20:52:03 < mawk> ah
2021-07-16T20:52:11 < bitmask> i'll just view the effect 
2021-07-16T20:52:13 < bitmask> should be enough
2021-07-16T20:52:15 < mawk> well two wires a cm apart should have some voltage between them
2021-07-16T20:52:21 < mawk> related to the electric field in the air
2021-07-16T20:52:30 < mawk> right?
2021-07-16T20:52:43 < bitmask> i wasnt sure, like just using the probes of a multimeter?
2021-07-16T20:53:00 < mawk> if the field isn't changing the gauss meter won't show anything
2021-07-16T20:54:06 < bitmask> right
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2021-07-16T22:31:08 < Laurenceb> lol control code in node red javashit
2021-07-16T22:31:19 < Laurenceb> >why does it take 20ms to wake up
2021-07-16T22:31:29 < Laurenceb> surprisingly fast tbh
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2021-07-16T22:38:44 < kakium69> hyperloop controlled by javashit?
2021-07-16T22:39:13 < kakium69> running on raspberry pi?
2021-07-16T22:39:15 < Steffann> for some reason i trust it more than laurencode :P
2021-07-16T22:41:37 < kakium69> you doubt laurenter can not produce any coherent code?
2021-07-16T22:42:09 < kakium69> laurenter made the boss coder - hyperloop running on mathlab
2021-07-16T22:46:47 < Steffann> Have you paid attention to the stuff he posted here the last week?
2021-07-16T22:46:47 < Steffann> and the complaints
2021-07-16T22:46:47 < Steffann> and the "wtf is going on"
2021-07-16T22:46:47 < kakium69> he is having a meltdown?
2021-07-16T22:50:06 < Steffann> Was close call
2021-07-16T22:50:41 < kakium69> when?
2021-07-16T22:50:47 < Steffann> Watched the movie Spy Game yet, kakium69?
2021-07-16T22:50:54 < kakium69> idk
2021-07-16T22:51:02 < kakium69> I have watched every movie there is
2021-07-16T22:51:22 < Steffann> There are more porn movies than you can ever watch in your entire life.
2021-07-16T22:51:33 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2021-07-16T22:52:02 < kakium69> but I'm trying hard to get there
2021-07-16T22:54:34 < kakium69> Steffanx: definitelly have watched spy game
2021-07-16T22:56:07 < Steffanx> ok
2021-07-16T23:07:54 < bitmask> woot, printed a box to hold the high voltage module and bought felt to hold the alcohol, my cloud chamber is finished
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2021-07-16T23:16:06 < mawk> Steffanx: 
2021-07-16T23:16:16 < mawk> I have a colleague that stopped working at my company some months ago
2021-07-16T23:16:22 < mawk> I thought he left, but actually he was fired
2021-07-16T23:16:34 < mawk> so I asked what did he do to get fired, so my boss showed my his email junk folder
2021-07-16T23:16:57 < mawk> there was literally around a thousand emails from the guy, each and every one of them about a different QAnon conspiracy, or calling my boss "sheeple" and "slave"
2021-07-16T23:16:58 < mawk> lol
2021-07-16T23:17:09 < mawk> sometimes there were like 10 emails sent under 5 minutes
2021-07-16T23:17:50 < mawk> then a colleague told me he had to block him on every single messenger he's on because the guy kept sending him memes and images about qanon conspiracies
2021-07-16T23:18:06 < bitmask> should a gauss meter detect something in an electric field when you first turn it on?
2021-07-16T23:18:20 < mawk> very very briefly bitmask the magnetic field will vary
2021-07-16T23:18:25 < mawk> and I don't think a gauss meter can pick it up
2021-07-16T23:18:28 < mawk> but you can tr
2021-07-16T23:18:29 < mawk> y
2021-07-16T23:18:32 < kakium69> mawk: he actually did it? no possibility of hijacked account or anything?
2021-07-16T23:18:33 < bitmask> didnt detect anything
2021-07-16T23:18:40 < mawk> yes he actually did it kakium69 
2021-07-16T23:18:55 < mawk> he supposedly started talking about it at work too, I didn't ask for details
2021-07-16T23:19:02 < mawk> but if he was fired it wasn't without evidence, it's a small company
2021-07-16T23:19:09 < bitmask> if I connect a wire to the positive grid and move it close to a metal contact on the gnd i should get a spark right?
2021-07-16T23:19:27 < mawk> if it's high enough voltage yes bitmask 
2021-07-16T23:19:31 < bitmask> k i'll try that
2021-07-16T23:20:15 < kakium69> mawk: I could imagine laurencer being fired for sending dozens of greenline text to work emails every day
2021-07-16T23:20:27 < kakium69> and memes ofc
2021-07-16T23:20:55 < kakium69> Laurenceb_: take note what mawk said
2021-07-16T23:21:45 < mawk> bitmask: why not make a resistor divider with big resistors and measure voltage with a regular multimeter?
2021-07-16T23:21:59 < mawk> if you use like MΩ or GΩ values you should be fine
2021-07-16T23:22:16 < bitmask> yea i guess, i dont think its working though
2021-07-16T23:22:54 < mawk> no spark doesn't mean it's not working, you might have to get very close
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < mawk> to get a spark at 1mm you need 3kV
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < bitmask> i figured it would be loud when it made contact so even touching doesnt do anything
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < mawk> in regular air
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < mawk> but if it's especially dry it might need more
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < bitmask> and im trying closer than 1mm
2021-07-16T23:23:38 < mawk> try resistor divider, you should be fine
2021-07-16T23:24:23 < mawk> if you do it with a 1MΩ and 1kΩ resistor you can divide the voltage by ~1000 to get it read by a multimeter
2021-07-16T23:24:24 < bitmask> theres a small chance the standoff im testing on isnt touching the copper plate but i doubt it
2021-07-16T23:24:29 < bitmask> i'll have to take the module out and test it
2021-07-16T23:24:46 < bitmask> i dont have any high voltage resistors though
2021-07-16T23:24:55 < bitmask> arent they limited?
2021-07-16T23:25:43 < mawk> with 1MΩ bridge you can dump 500V safely for an indefinite period of time
2021-07-16T23:25:51 < mawk> but you can dump much larger if you don't let it connected for very long
2021-07-16T23:26:05 < mawk> resistors aren't limited by voltage I think bitmask , unless we're talking very big voltage
2021-07-16T23:26:12 < mawk> you just want to make sure the power isn't too high it's melting
2021-07-16T23:26:13 < bitmask> oh ok
2021-07-16T23:26:20 < mawk> I'm talking THT resistor
2021-07-16T23:26:21 < bitmask> alright i'll try it
2021-07-16T23:26:25 < bitmask> yea i know
2021-07-16T23:27:44 < bitmask> hmm thats still like 1W isnt it?
2021-07-16T23:27:58 < bitmask> i'll have to use multiple resistors
2021-07-16T23:28:05 < bitmask> i only have 1/4 i believe
2021-07-16T23:28:08 < mawk> the distance between the leads is like 1cm, and that needs a field of 30kV to make a spark
2021-07-16T23:28:18 < mawk> 500V at 1MΩ makes 0.25W
2021-07-16T23:28:30 < mawk> you can stack multiple resistors if you want
2021-07-16T23:28:39 < bitmask> 1000V
2021-07-16T23:28:45 < bitmask> about
2021-07-16T23:28:46 < bitmask> im really not sure
2021-07-16T23:28:53 < Steffanx> Lol @ the guy mawk 
2021-07-16T23:29:22 < mawk> so you need 4MΩ bitmask 
2021-07-16T23:29:27 < bitmask> k
2021-07-16T23:29:27 < mawk> to make it 0.25W
2021-07-16T23:29:37 < Steffanx> I dont think your boss is allowed to show you the junk folder, but yeah 😋
2021-07-16T23:30:08 < mawk> I couldn't stop laughing when he showed that to me Steffanx 
2021-07-16T23:31:12 < mawk> bitmask: if you have U volts, then you need U²/0.25 ohms of resistance to keep the power dissipation down to 0.25W
2021-07-16T23:31:21 < mawk> so if U = 1000, that gave me 4MΩ
2021-07-16T23:31:23 < bitmask> yea i know
2021-07-16T23:32:36 < mawk> if you're worried about sparking between the leads you can put the resistor in mineral oil to increase the maximum voltage; but you don't need that for just 1kV
2021-07-16T23:33:00 < mawk> also I'm pretty sure a decent multimeter can take 1kV directly without a divider
2021-07-16T23:33:15 < mawk> but if you're worried it's more and might break your multimeter it's a good idea to make a divider
2021-07-16T23:33:32 < bitmask> yea im really not sure what its gonna be
2021-07-16T23:35:07 < Steffanx> The guy should sue your boss for showing you his private emails, mawk 
2021-07-16T23:35:22 < mawk> the boss just showed me the subjects Steffanx , not the individual emails
2021-07-16T23:35:35 < mawk> also I don't think there's a law against showing private email is there?
2021-07-16T23:35:40 < mawk> the guy was already fired when he sent them
2021-07-16T23:36:44 < Steffanx> Im pretty sure there is, mawk
2021-07-16T23:36:50 < mawk> why
2021-07-16T23:37:03 < mawk> the guy had no reasonable expectation of privacy when he sent crazy emails like this
2021-07-16T23:37:11 < mawk> I'm not sure a judge would agree with you
2021-07-16T23:37:32 < mawk> it's like sending "I WILL KILL MYSELF" to someone, you can't sue them if they call psychiatric services on you
2021-07-16T23:37:43 < mawk> you have no reasonable expectation of privacy
2021-07-16T23:38:07 < Steffanx> https://www.sprengersadvocaten.nl/publicaties/wanneer-mag-een-werkgever-zich-toegang-verschaffen-tot-de-mailbox-van-een-medewerker/ enjoy
2021-07-16T23:38:09 < mawk> if you send an email titled "[VERY CONFIDENTIAL] Top secret information on the upcoming tenders" then yes you have an expectation of privacy
2021-07-16T23:38:40 < sauce> think theres a miscommunication about whose mailbox was revealed here
2021-07-16T23:38:50 < mawk> he didn't show me his mailbox Steffanx 
2021-07-16T23:38:56 < mawk> the boss showed me his own mailbox
2021-07-16T23:39:01 < mawk> boss showed me boss' mailbox
2021-07-16T23:39:03 < Steffanx> Aaah
2021-07-16T23:39:15 < Steffanx> I missed that part, lol
2021-07-16T23:39:28 < mawk> which was full of qanon emails from fired guy
2021-07-16T23:39:46 < mawk> yeah if the crazy guy just sent crazy emails from his work email I wouldn't agree with him getting fired
2021-07-16T23:39:56 < mawk> otherwise I'd have to get fired 10 times for everything I did in my office
2021-07-16T23:40:19 < sauce> on a related note the G suite admin panel doesn't let you access users' inboxes directly but the APIs do, which weirds me out
2021-07-16T23:40:32 < mawk> only tech-savvy bosses can spy
2021-07-16T23:41:11 < mawk> in the office I did drugs, sex and rock&roll; but without rock&roll
2021-07-16T23:41:25 < Steffanx> He can simply change your password and check, but.. thats not really spying
2021-07-16T23:42:18 < Steffanx> So someone wrote a tool using this api, sauce?
2021-07-16T23:42:35 < sauce> oh yeah theres quite an ecosystem
2021-07-16T23:42:46 < sauce> lots of resellers and tools
2021-07-16T23:45:49 < mawk> I looked a bit how much it would cost to make my own blood group auto-test card
2021-07-16T23:45:56 < mawk> more or less $0.01 of raw materials per card
2021-07-16T23:46:04 < mawk> and it's sold $5 by the only company that sells them
2021-07-16T23:46:09 < mawk> I could get rich if I made them
2021-07-16T23:46:32 < mawk> but then you need to have some kind of medical equipment certification, being able to make sterile packings, etc, driving the cost a bit up
2021-07-16T23:46:39 < mawk> but still just $0.01 of raw materials, + the paper
2021-07-16T23:47:09 < mawk> $0.01 is the retail price of the antibodies needed to make a card, but the bulk price should be even lower
2021-07-16T23:47:09 < sauce> maybe they are available for cheap but not on the open market?
2021-07-16T23:47:16 < mawk> maybe
2021-07-16T23:47:24 < mawk> but I looked for some time and only "eldoncard" makes such cards
2021-07-16T23:47:40 < mawk> maybe no-one wants to buy them because everyone knows their blood type already
2021-07-16T23:47:47 < mawk> although I could market it as a fun home science experiment
2021-07-16T23:48:01 < mawk> because isn't poking holes in your fingers to draw blood extra fun?
2021-07-16T23:48:58 < sauce> arent they vital in emergency medicine?
2021-07-16T23:49:00 < mawk> it doesn't hurt, but it's a bit scary to push the button of the lancet yourself
2021-07-16T23:49:14 < mawk> well in emergency medicine they don't use such cards I think, but proper lab test 
2021-07-16T23:49:27 < mawk> the card isn't reliable enough for transfusion
2021-07-16T23:49:37 < sauce> huh interesting
2021-07-16T23:49:40 < mawk> at least a few dummies on amazon managed to get wrong results
2021-07-16T23:49:45 < bitmask> mawk got it! it was the button
2021-07-16T23:49:49 < bitmask> :/
2021-07-16T23:49:56 < mawk> you forgot to turn it on you mean bitmask ?
2021-07-16T23:50:05 < bitmask> no, the socket was loose :P
2021-07-16T23:50:10 < mawk> ah lol
2021-07-16T23:50:50 < mawk> sauce: for emergency transfusion I'd imagine they just have little petri dish of antibodies and add blood to it; not dried up antibodies on a piece of paper that you need to rehydrate yourself and so on
2021-07-16T23:51:06 < mawk> because the latter is too imprecise, if you don't work quick enough it doesn't work, if you put too much or too litle blood/water it doesn't work, etc
2021-07-16T23:51:09 < sauce> so whats the market you have in mind
2021-07-16T23:51:26 < mawk> stupid people that think that their diet must be in accordance with their blood type
2021-07-16T23:51:32 < mawk> it's a popular pseudo-science diet apparently
2021-07-16T23:51:48 < mawk> but I don't think I have such bad morals that I would willingly sell pseudo-science; so the remaining market is "fun science experiment"
2021-07-16T23:52:02 < mawk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_diet
2021-07-16T23:52:13 < sauce> if you want to sell snake oil just do audiophile or gamer shit, better ethics
2021-07-16T23:52:23 < mawk> lol
2021-07-16T23:53:00 < bitmask> so its 1100V
2021-07-16T23:53:06 < mawk> ah nice
2021-07-16T23:53:14 < mawk> and does it spark?
2021-07-16T23:53:17 < bitmask> yes
2021-07-16T23:53:24 < bitmask> and wines
2021-07-16T23:53:29 < bitmask> whines? how do you spell it
2021-07-16T23:53:33 < mawk> it should spark at...33cm?
2021-07-16T23:53:37 < mawk> I think I messed up the calculation
2021-07-16T23:53:42 < mawk> it seems really a lot
2021-07-16T23:53:43 < bitmask> heh its like 1mm
2021-07-16T23:53:47 < bitmask> mayben less
2021-07-16T23:54:06 < mawk> ah yes I messed up
2021-07-16T23:54:17 < mawk> 3kV/cm, so 1kV/(0.3333cm)
2021-07-16T23:54:28 < mawk> so 3.33mm in ideal conditions
2021-07-16T23:55:01 < bitmask> yea let me try it again to see the distance
2021-07-16T23:55:17 < mawk> is it DC?
2021-07-16T23:55:44 < bitmask> im not sure, it might be pulsed?
2021-07-16T23:55:53 < bitmask> actually i have the mmeter set to dc
2021-07-16T23:55:58 < bitmask> im not sure
2021-07-16T23:56:08 < mawk> if you set the meter to DC and it's pulsed then you see some average on the meter
2021-07-16T23:56:14 < mawk> and it might be higher in reality
2021-07-16T23:56:19 < mawk> at the pea
2021-07-16T23:56:19 < mawk> k
2021-07-16T23:56:21 < bitmask> its just a transistor a transformer and a cap
2021-07-16T23:56:30 < bitmask> and a diode
2021-07-16T23:56:44 < bitmask> yea maybe i'll try ac
2021-07-16T23:56:53 < mawk> yeah it's probably some kind of AC with a nonzero average value
2021-07-16T23:57:10 < mawk> well add a cap to filter the average value and put multimeter in AC mode
2021-07-16T23:57:44 < mawk> I don't know how big a cap though
2021-07-16T23:57:45 < mawk> you know the frequency?
2021-07-16T23:58:14 < mawk> it's probably related to the inductance of the transform
2021-07-16T23:58:14 < mawk> and the capacitance of your cap
2021-07-16T23:58:15 < mawk> like 1/sqrt(LC)
2021-07-16T23:58:15 < bitmask> i dunno the frequency jumps around when i set it to AC
2021-07-16T23:58:15 < bitmask> its fine
2021-07-16T23:58:17 < bitmask> 1100V is close enough
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2021-07-16T23:58:45 < bitmask> to get it to spark it has to be extremely close, just barely touching it
2021-07-16T23:59:07 < mawk> if you measure 1100V and it's pulsed DC, then let's say 1100V is the average value
2021-07-16T23:59:10 < mawk> so the peak is 2200V
2021-07-16T23:59:45 < mawk> if it's proper sinusoidal stuff
--- Day changed Sat Jul 17 2021
2021-07-17T00:00:12 < mawk> but it's probably like /\__/\__/\__/\ though if there's a diode in the way, so the average isn't exactly half the peak
2021-07-17T00:07:00 < bitmask> hmm, i think the button is broken
2021-07-17T00:07:13 < bitmask> wasnt just not plugged in, when it worked i was testing with another button
2021-07-17T00:07:35 < bitmask> that sucks, i only have one of those custom buttons
2021-07-17T00:07:40 < bitmask> gotta try and fix it
2021-07-17T00:09:48 < bitmask> haha ugh, pin was just bent
2021-07-17T00:14:57 < mawk> yes with a waveform like I said the average value should be U/2
2021-07-17T00:15:00 < mawk> with U the peak value
2021-07-17T00:15:55 < mawk> and it would be U/sqrt(2) with a diode bridge
2021-07-17T00:18:40 < bitmask> wow, after taking the voltage divider out its a shitton more powerful
2021-07-17T00:19:04 < bitmask> crazy loud spark 
2021-07-17T00:21:20 < bitmask> ok sweet, everything plays well together
2021-07-17T00:21:27 < bitmask> nowww its done, lets try it
2021-07-17T00:21:52 < bitmask> i should probably go downstairs since the AC doesnt cool my room well
2021-07-17T00:22:00 < bitmask> or not
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2021-07-17T02:12:09 < mawk> without a voltage divider it forces the current to stay low I think bitmask 
2021-07-17T02:12:17 < mawk> allowing the voltage to stay maximal
2021-07-17T02:12:29 < mawk> I predict a simple resistor will do that too
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2021-07-17T05:23:41 < R2COM> so wheres real channel here or fuckin freenode
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2021-07-17T11:07:08 < qyx> theres no freenode anymore, idk if you know
2021-07-17T11:10:13 < jpa-> it is freenode autonomous zone now :)
2021-07-17T11:16:25 < jpa-> it's cute how andrew lee has started to sign his posts "His Imperial Highness" :)
2021-07-17T11:20:55 < PaulFertser> "Jackie Singh, who joined the Biden campaign in July as a senior cyber incident responder and threat analyst, was an affiliate of the hacking organization the Gay N----- Association of America, once headed by white nationalist Andrew Auernheimer."
2021-07-17T11:23:42 < PaulFertser> They even do not dare to spell nigger in full.
2021-07-17T11:26:24 < jpa-> why should they?
2021-07-17T11:30:04 < PaulFertser> Because it's the name of organisation they mention.
2021-07-17T11:30:06 < jpa-> (also, be a bit wary about the truthfullness of those news; it comes from washington express (which leans republican) and was published right before the presidential elections)
2021-07-17T11:31:16 < jpa-> giving an organization an offending name does not mean that everyone else has to repeat it
2021-07-17T11:32:32 < PaulFertser> It's just silly to be offended by an organisation name. And also isn't that true that many blacks call each other niggers?
2021-07-17T11:33:14 < jpa-> USA is weird with words lately, i can agree with that
2021-07-17T11:33:42 < jpa-> but just because something is an organization name does not make it less offensive, especially when the name has been chosen intentionally to be offensive
2021-07-17T11:35:50 < PaulFertser> Is nigger more offensive when you view it with black font on white background or white font on black background? I do not get it, how can one get offended by just mentioning certain words. That's outright insane or hypocritic. Same as the Pussy Riot case.
2021-07-17T11:36:32 < jpa-> words are proxies to concepts, concepts can be offensive
2021-07-17T11:37:35 < jpa-> some people like to think that they themselves cannot be offended by words, and maybe that is even true for some, but it doesn't change that many people are offended by certain words and it is within the interest of writers to avoid that
2021-07-17T11:39:02 < PaulFertser> Should we also write H----- for Hitler, g------- for genocide, r--- for rape, h-------- for holocaust etc?
2021-07-17T11:39:20 < jpa-> based on current consensus, no
2021-07-17T11:40:01 < PaulFertser> Aren't those concepts more offensive?
2021-07-17T11:40:24 < PaulFertser> Also, what concept is behind "nigger"? Isn't slavery more general, affecting more people and hence more offensive?
2021-07-17T11:40:27 < PaulFertser> Or racism
2021-07-17T11:41:03 < jpa-> you'll need to find someone else to answer those questions, as i'm myself not that interested in the topic
2021-07-17T11:41:21 < jpa-> for me it is enough to know that some people are offended by the word and that there is nothing to gain by using it
2021-07-17T11:43:06 < jpa-> it just seems silly to think that being part of organization name would make a difference
2021-07-17T11:47:20 < PaulFertser> Some people would probably prefer to not use combination of three digit 6 in a row but omitting or censoring them in a SSN would be plain silly. Because it's an ID and thus should be reproduced in full.
2021-07-17T11:48:21 < jpa-> and in that case there is a clear advantage in not corrupting it, though in general i wouldn't suggest publishing a SSN in news
2021-07-17T11:49:01 < jadew> I think it's normal to be offended by words, but when people are afraid to speak those words, I don't think you can get offended anymore
2021-07-17T11:50:06 < PaulFertser> In general I would suggest to not develop systems where something that must be kept secret is not stored inside crypto chips and never leave them....
2021-07-17T11:51:50 < jpa-> most SSN schemes are full of legacy insecure stuff, but a crypto chip does not magically solve such problems
2021-07-17T11:52:55 < jpa-> it's always a balance between usability and security, and in most cases a central authentication server is a much more reasonable solution than a personal crypto chip
2021-07-17T11:53:13 < PaulFertser> If you require the secret to never leave the crypto chip, this sole requirement already forces certain desicions that should improve security.
2021-07-17T11:54:27 < jpa-> also it forces decisions that make many real-world things impossible
2021-07-17T11:54:44 < PaulFertser> Electronic signatures work.
2021-07-17T11:54:47 < PaulFertser> In real world.
2021-07-17T11:56:31 < jpa-> so you suggest replacing SSN as an ID number with another ID number that is an electronic signature, and then it would somehow be better to publish that?
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2021-07-17T11:57:16 < jpa-> for example home addresses are usually not published, even though they are also not the kind of information i would keep on a crypto chip
2021-07-17T11:58:10 < jpa-> but this discussion has gotten way too far already :)
2021-07-17T12:06:29 < PaulFertser> jpa-: electronic signatures I've heard of are based on public key crypto, so yes, it's safe to publish the public part of it while keeping your secret key inside the chip forever.
2021-07-17T12:07:15 < jpa-> PaulFertser: typically you also need an ID to even know what public key to compare against
2021-07-17T12:07:38 < jpa-> which is exactly what SSN should be used for, not for authentication
2021-07-17T12:07:55 < PaulFertser> In that case publishing SSN should be safe
2021-07-17T12:08:32 < jpa-> safe, in a similar way as publishing a phone number or a home address is safe?
2021-07-17T12:09:27 < PaulFertser> Home address is not that safe as it is related to physical security.
2021-07-17T12:10:47 < PaulFertser> Phone number can be unsafe if we are assuming a cell phone number and for-whatever-fucking-reason-popular 2FA using SMS.
2021-07-17T12:11:03 < jpa-> any of them can be used for bullying and annoyance
2021-07-17T12:18:08 < Streaker> jpa-: if you update the link in the /topic to http://xob.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stm32/libera/ it will save one extra hit on your webserver.
2021-07-17T12:19:07 < jpa-> Streaker: at this point i might as well rotate them around a bit..
2021-07-17T12:19:21 < Streaker> that might be better
2021-07-17T12:20:21 < jpa-> like this
2021-07-17T12:20:52 < Streaker> you've got an infinite loop
2021-07-17T12:20:59 < jpa-> i know, and i like it :)
2021-07-17T12:21:13 < Streaker> I'm going to DOS your logs
2021-07-17T12:21:52 < jpa-> also fixed it so that it shows in browser directly instead of trying to download
2021-07-17T13:11:52 < Steffanx> Can  you change your nick to j----, jpa- ? Im offended by "jpa-" ;)
2021-07-17T13:12:29 < Steffanx> Oops, one - too many
2021-07-17T13:12:39 < jadew> I'm offended that you are offended. jpa- should keep his nickname and everyone should be able to type it
2021-07-17T13:13:22 < jadew> why is it ok for jpa- to say jpa-?
2021-07-17T13:17:37 < Steffanx> Because he's a jpa 
2021-07-17T13:18:14 < jadew> why are you assuming his jpaness?
2021-07-17T13:18:32 < jadew> no wait, I'll do that one again
2021-07-17T13:18:44 < jadew> did you just assume his jpaness?
2021-07-17T13:19:17 < jpa-> Steffanx: i'll consider it once you reach consensus with jadew
2021-07-17T13:19:54 < Steffanx> It doesnt work that way jpa- . Its irrelevant what he thinks. Im offended. 
2021-07-17T13:20:32 < Steffanx> Anyway, time to do something more useful. Maybe tell tct sad stories
2021-07-17T13:20:40 < jadew> that's a pretty compelling argument.
2021-07-17T13:20:50 < jadew> j---, he convinced me
2021-07-17T13:20:52 < jpa-> Steffanx: i did not intend to dispute your feelings, you are entitled to them; but they do not bind my actions
2021-07-17T13:21:03 < jpa-> uh oh
2021-07-17T13:21:18 < jpa-> i'll be the rebel then
2021-07-17T13:21:48 < jpa-> besides, what can i do when i have only a - and not ---
2021-07-17T13:21:53 < jpa-> not everyone is that well endowed
2021-07-17T13:22:18 < zyp> jpa===D~~
2021-07-17T13:22:25 < jadew> lol zyp 
2021-07-17T13:22:37 < zyp> sup?
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2021-07-17T13:28:36  * jadew is measuring noise
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2021-07-17T14:18:37 < qyx> is jadew a nouse pro?
2021-07-17T14:19:26 < qyx> is my effective resoluton log2(fullscale / std(x))?
2021-07-17T14:20:11 < qyx> and RMS noise == std(x)?
2021-07-17T14:21:50 < tct> tell me a fun story
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2021-07-17T15:15:26 < jpa-> qyx: yes, that seems correct to me
2021-07-17T15:19:02 < qyx> thank you mr jpa- 
2021-07-17T15:19:05 < Spirit532> I have a slightly peculiar task that I need a bit of help with
2021-07-17T15:20:33 < jpa-> Spirit532: you are in luck, ##stm32 are experts on tasks ranging from slightly peculiar to disturbingly peculiar
2021-07-17T15:22:00 < Spirit532> I'm building a two(!)-phase 1100Hz VFD, and I need to figure out how to DMA both the waveform(two 90 degree offset sines) and variable current with a single 4-channel timer without crushing the CPU performance, as it'll also be crunching other stuff(comms, display, etc)
2021-07-17T15:23:14 < jpa-> so basically DMA stuff into TIM->CCR1, CCR2 and CCR3?
2021-07-17T15:23:21 < Spirit532> yeah, the issue is with the data
2021-07-17T15:23:38 < Spirit532> since I can't have phase balance, I can't use TIMx/TIMx_N, they must be individual timers
2021-07-17T15:23:42 < Spirit532> CCR1, 2, 3, 4
2021-07-17T15:23:50 < Spirit532> individual registers*
2021-07-17T15:24:07 < Spirit532> it's essentially two full bridges, two separate coils, driven at 90 degrees
2021-07-17T15:24:45 < jpa-> sounds pretty standard so far
2021-07-17T15:24:59 < Spirit532> My thought so far is to set up a timer that runs at the desired output frequency, and then in that timer re-compute the LUTs(if needed) and fires off circular DMA for the next cycle
2021-07-17T15:25:34 < Spirit532> but that's 512 values to multiply/divide based on desired current
2021-07-17T15:25:38 < Spirit532> that's a lotta cycles
2021-07-17T15:26:14 < jpa-> how high will the PWM frequency be?
2021-07-17T15:26:23 < Spirit532> out of hearing range, 20kHz-ish
2021-07-17T15:27:40 < jpa-> you could just run interrupt at 20kHz and compute new values for the next PWM cycle on the fly
2021-07-17T15:28:15 < jpa-> four multiplications in a 20 kHz interrupt sound like less than 5% of CPU time
2021-07-17T15:28:51 < Spirit532> so essentially full software?
2021-07-17T15:28:57 < jpa-> (well, more multiplications than that to get the sine lut index etc, but still)
2021-07-17T15:29:18 < Spirit532> divisions are suckier, right?
2021-07-17T15:29:26 < jpa-> a bit slower yeah
2021-07-17T15:29:40 < jpa-> but unless this is M0, it's a quite fast CPU
2021-07-17T15:29:52 < Spirit532> use a precomputed LUT, val[lut]/100*desiredcurrent
2021-07-17T15:29:53 < Spirit532> that kind of thing
2021-07-17T15:30:17 < Spirit532> I'm choosing based on stock, so it's looking like an F411 right now
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2021-07-17T15:30:55 < jpa-> sinetable[angle_in_brad & 255] * current / 256    or similar would be a typical fixed point implementation
2021-07-17T15:31:15 < Spirit532> poor brad
2021-07-17T15:34:01 < jpa-> it is an overkill for this application, but if there was a real need to offload to hardware, one could have one timer running at variable frequency, feeding the clock to the PWM timer; then the PWM period register could be adjusted to adjust the duty cycle for current, while keeping the actual PWM frequency constant by adjusting the frequency of the feeding timer; then all LUTs could be constant
2021-07-17T15:35:48 < Spirit532> oh, hm, I didn't think of clocking the timer from another timer
2021-07-17T15:36:01 < Spirit532> is that even possible?
2021-07-17T15:36:20 < jpa-> sure
2021-07-17T15:36:31 < Spirit532> pin bridge or internal?
2021-07-17T15:36:35 < jpa-> internal
2021-07-17T15:36:56 < jpa-> there are some combinations of timers that can act as a m----- or s----
2021-07-17T15:38:35 < Spirit532> are we not allowed those words anymore
2021-07-17T15:39:46 < qyx> :D
2021-07-17T15:59:28 < Spirit532> so, on that note, another odd issue due to the fuckiness of my implementation
2021-07-17T16:00:41 < Spirit532> since I need independent control of each channel(phase1+, phase1-, phase2+, phase2-), I'm driving it using four separate timers
2021-07-17T16:00:57 < Spirit532> is there a way to ensure dead time, or do I just have to be VERY CAREFUL when writing code? :P
2021-07-17T16:01:38 < Spirit532> my current setup is as follows: https://i.spirit.re/KqFf5.png
2021-07-17T16:03:09 < Spirit532> abusing an IGBT IPM by turning it into a half bridge with extra dangly bits
2021-07-17T16:03:54 < Spirit532> er, full bridge
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2021-07-17T18:14:23 < jadew> qyx, I'm far from being a pro
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2021-07-17T18:16:30 < jadew> but I do seem to have managed to get decent measurements out of my gear, which is very surprising
2021-07-17T18:17:10 < jadew> and I only know they're decent because they plot nice, so I can only conclude that the data is fairly accurate
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2021-07-17T18:19:16 < jadew> I'm not familiar with that formula btw, what is it used for?
2021-07-17T18:36:35 < qyx> the ADC specifies noise RMS and effective/peak-to-peak resolution figures for different sampling rates and configurations
2021-07-17T18:36:50 < qyx> I wanted to check if I didn't introduce more noise into inputs
2021-07-17T18:37:32 < qyx> there's a possiblity to do ADC offset calib + noise check shorting AIN+ and AIN- internally
2021-07-17T18:37:45 < jadew> ah, I see
2021-07-17T18:37:56 < qyx> or externally at system level (I did it at the end of the measurement cable)
2021-07-17T18:38:41 < qyx> I got only about ~1 bit less resolution with the cable shorted
2021-07-17T18:38:47 < qyx> so I assumed it is good
2021-07-17T18:39:34 < qyx> considering there is a LTE modem nearby and linux running and lot of SMPS stuff
2021-07-17T18:39:42 < jadew> I'm more interested in the actual quantities vs frequency
2021-07-17T18:40:27 < qyx> this was DC-40 Hz, sigma delta, so not much MHz
2021-07-17T18:41:22 < jadew> the log2 kinda hinted me that it must be something to do with binary systems
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2021-07-17T18:44:42 < brdb> anyone use lvgl with the stm32s? trying to make sure i'm compiling the sources correctly
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2021-07-17T19:12:10 < mawk> ln(2) is ubiquitous
2021-07-17T19:18:33 < jpa-> Spirit532: usually dead time means time between activation of the top & bottom mosfets, but in your case you have tied those controls together and IGCM06F60GA inserts the dead-time
2021-07-17T19:20:00 < jpa-> Spirit532: if you mean overcurrent protection to avoid burning out the coils, i would suggest using the ITRIP feature of that module
2021-07-17T19:21:12 < jpa-> brdb: i use it on STM32H7
2021-07-17T19:22:05 < brdb> jpa-: are you just using it simply with HAL/st's libs and CubeIDE or CMake/Make
2021-07-17T19:22:34 < jpa-> just makefile
2021-07-17T19:23:26 < brdb> i see, same here, but somehow my version using libopencm3 + lvgl on the stm32f429i disco board is just not working and i'm wondering if maybe i'm messing up something with the way i'm compiling lvgl
2021-07-17T19:23:36 < brdb> LCD stuff has been extremely frustrating so far
2021-07-17T19:24:18 < jpa-> more likely your display interface doesn't work; you can try using it directly
2021-07-17T19:26:07 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/a/YzOetBF  my current lcd work :p  (plugging) though im hitting the limit of the hardware, getting graphics glitches if i have a less corse fade effect. The multiple rendering and layering is causing issues.... not been able to find the root cause
2021-07-17T19:28:06 < brdb> ive successfully just hard coded image data (rgb) and written it to the address that the LTDC periph is looking at and writing, it does apprea on the LCD as expected with some color glitching but otherwise OK
2021-07-17T19:28:28 < jpa-> ok, that is promising
2021-07-17T19:28:42 < jpa-> so lvgl is not writing to that RAM for you?
2021-07-17T19:29:16 < brdb> i think maybe my DMA setup as part of the flush_cb func isn't working quite right, though i've gone over it several times and see nothing wrong with it
2021-07-17T19:29:30 < jpa-> replace it with simple memcpy() for a test
2021-07-17T19:29:55 < jpa-> also make sure that you call lv_disp_flush_ready() at the end of it
2021-07-17T19:29:55 < brdb> hmm i can try that, not sure if that's valid on the stm32?
2021-07-17T19:30:14 < jpa-> whether memcpy() is valid? sure it is, if you have at least some libc
2021-07-17T19:30:24 < jpa-> but if not, do a for loop to copy the data
2021-07-17T19:34:46 < brdb> my main confusion with doing that originally was the size of lv_color_t as part of the actual flush_cb and copying that directly into the memory address sequentially (correctly)
2021-07-17T19:35:34 < brdb> im confused about how the STM32 stores information in memory (RGB888?) vs what the ultimate format is (RGB565 in this case) and then comparing that to what lvgl is giving me for information
2021-07-17T19:36:00 < jpa-> they are all configurable
2021-07-17T19:36:21 < jpa-> you can configure LTDC memory format and display format separately, and then you should configure lvgl to match the memory format
2021-07-17T19:37:04 < jpa-> and the configuration of lvgl will determine the sizeof(lv_color_t) though i just cast that to uint16_t* myself
2021-07-17T19:38:00 < brdb> so then copying pixels from lv_color_t* to sdram memory (where LTDC layer 1 frame buffer starts) would match formats, right?
2021-07-17T19:38:07 < brdb> i see
2021-07-17T19:38:16 < brdb> yeah i see the casting to 16-bit a lot here
2021-07-17T19:39:20 < brdb> maybe trying to use libopencm3 instead of STs firmware libs is shooting myself in the foot here
2021-07-17T19:39:35 < jpa-> i don't see how libopencm3 is related to this at all
2021-07-17T19:40:00 < brdb> periph APIs maybe incorrect in setting registers correctly
2021-07-17T19:40:09 < jpa-> you have place in memory, if you put that to that place in memory you have confirmed that it appears on display; you have lvgl that is not putting data there for some reason - libopencm3 is not involved at all
2021-07-17T19:40:59 < brdb> hmm i'll try memcpy and see if i get different results than DMA
2021-07-17T19:58:42 < jadew> mawk, it was log2 tho, the implication being that it's useful somewhere where you have 2^x
2021-07-17T20:03:36 < brdb> memcpy works (well for loop but yeah)
2021-07-17T20:03:46 < brdb> thanks jpa- gotta figure out where i'm going wrong with the dma mem2mem copy then
2021-07-17T20:04:20 < jpa-> pastebin your code and ##stm32 will think for you
2021-07-17T20:04:32 < jpa-> solving your own problems is such lame approach
2021-07-17T20:05:11 < brdb> have to head to Lowes since lumber is affordable, but will do after -- thanks again jpa- for showing me how much of an idiot i am
2021-07-17T20:06:04 < jpa-> my pleasure
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2021-07-17T20:32:31 < R2COM> this is ridiculous...$25k Allegro Design Entry CIS software for PCB has freezings for ~1.5s every time you apply net name to wire
2021-07-17T20:32:55 < R2COM> say you have memory chip and wired out lines, and you hit N to type and then automatically apply increasing pin names
2021-07-17T20:33:08 < jpa-> doesn't it come with support service that should fix such issues?
2021-07-17T20:33:11 < R2COM> so after every click on wire, theres 1-2s freezing before you can even move mouse
2021-07-17T20:33:19 < R2COM> it is shocking
2021-07-17T20:34:10 < R2COM> yes i dealt with their support: make ticket on their website, wait 1-2 business days until they get back with email, then you request zoom with them, and there will be couple dudes overseas with broken english reading out troubleshooting steps for you
2021-07-17T20:34:21 < sauce> its almost like software quality is not proportional to cost
2021-07-17T20:34:29 < R2COM> like... reboot PC, reinstall cadence... then...they elevate it to higher team...and that is another 4-5 days
2021-07-17T20:34:38 < R2COM> i gone through that few times
2021-07-17T20:35:05 < R2COM> and the thing is, 1) not always they sort it out, most of time they say something like "wait for hotfix"
2021-07-17T20:35:22 < R2COM> 2) by the time it goes on, i usually find issue out myself
2021-07-17T20:35:33 < R2COM> but in this case its just shitty software... i dont they gonna be able to sort it out
2021-07-17T20:35:59 < R2COM> so designing a MB-like PCB with tons of memory chips, FPGA and other things is literally nightmware now in this suite
2021-07-17T20:36:19 < R2COM> and that is on very new Lenovo 6 core PC with decent GPU as well for work
2021-07-17T20:36:40 < R2COM> softwre cost: >$25k with all features enabled
2021-07-17T20:37:52 < R2COM> it is just idiotic
2021-07-17T20:38:37 < R2COM> and overall all is now so slow... like  you double click component for properties tab to open and that is another 3 seconds
2021-07-17T20:38:39 < jpa-> yeah, and difficult to even vote with your wallet when so much time has been invested in learning the software & rolling it out across a company
2021-07-17T20:38:46 < R2COM> then redrawing to main screen after you close that properties tab
2021-07-17T20:39:45 < R2COM> the reason why its used is, also cuz of the integration for SI and PI sims with other soft (>$50k stuff)
2021-07-17T20:39:49 < R2COM> for high speed links
2021-07-17T20:40:03 < R2COM> not sure that soft supports Kicad stuff
2021-07-17T20:40:22 < R2COM> and also, layout people (some old grumpy farts) trained to use Allegro format layout
2021-07-17T20:40:28 < R2COM> its been defacto standard for decades
2021-07-17T20:40:35 < R2COM> thats why noone moves anywhere else
2021-07-17T20:40:59 < R2COM> in universities, Cadence hooks everyone up by providing to University free license, as result all classes taught for that soft
2021-07-17T20:41:05 < R2COM> and its only thing people know
2021-07-17T20:41:09 < R2COM> they continue using shitsoft
2021-07-17T20:41:46 < R2COM> once i get time i wanna research doability of SI sim with Kicad flow after exporting its layout
2021-07-17T20:42:07 < R2COM> but now, to get PCBs fast you have to use whatever is "standard"
2021-07-17T20:42:21 < R2COM> and its not "fast" anyway cuz of all those lags and poor UI
2021-07-17T20:42:50 < R2COM> i honestly think GUI intensive soft must be persistent UI like... like that ImGUI platform
2021-07-17T20:43:10 < R2COM> Kicad is also not fastest, its using some shitty OpenGL if im correct
2021-07-17T20:43:35 < R2COM> but funny thing is, its still faster than $25k Cadence Allegro suite
2021-07-17T20:44:53 < R2COM> unfortunately theres no alternative really
2021-07-17T20:45:04 < R2COM> all same shit: Altium, Cadence, 
2021-07-17T20:45:21 < R2COM> lower priced stuff is a little better like Eagle, but then again Kicad is just as good as Eagle but free
2021-07-17T20:46:34 < qyx> uhm, for me eagle was much slower than kikecad
2021-07-17T20:47:05 < R2COM> the stuff which i described with Cadence is real
2021-07-17T20:47:21 < R2COM> its worse than any other soft
2021-07-17T20:47:31 < R2COM> but then again in most companies its old stupid farts who use that soft
2021-07-17T20:47:37 < R2COM> and those are slow fucking people anyway
2021-07-17T20:48:04 < R2COM> they will never complain cuz they themselves are ineffective stupid fucks
2021-07-17T20:48:21 < R2COM> you wont believe how stupid people here in companies are
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2021-07-17T21:36:32 < tct> R2COM, \o/
2021-07-17T21:36:38 < tct> R2COM, how is FreeBSDing going?
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2021-07-17T21:41:10 < Steffanx> You wanted to hear a fun story I recall
2021-07-17T21:45:32 < tct> too late.
2021-07-17T21:46:07 < R2COM> tct its going OK
2021-07-17T21:46:24 < R2COM> im about to setup Kicad flow, my MCU programming flow working
2021-07-17T21:46:33 < tct> glad to hear that!
2021-07-17T21:46:52 < R2COM> i did one package build with poudriere
2021-07-17T21:46:59 < tct> neat, did my guide help?
2021-07-17T21:47:03 < R2COM> so i kinda know that flow, not 100% but yes
2021-07-17T21:47:07 < R2COM> yes i used your guide
2021-07-17T21:47:48 < tct> great
2021-07-17T21:48:01 < tct> still need to finish the webserver section but I take it that you don't need that on a local machine anyway
2021-07-17T21:48:44 < R2COM> yes i did it on local machine
2021-07-17T21:49:07 < R2COM> id like to have some nice guide on how to build NAS from FreeBSd 
2021-07-17T21:49:16 < R2COM> dont think i saw anything detailed
2021-07-17T21:49:19 < R2COM> with full steps
2021-07-17T21:49:41 < R2COM> btw, recently I setup git server on my Synology
2021-07-17T21:50:01 < R2COM> also I found out that I can even install and buy IP camera and Synology can support some 
2021-07-17T21:50:15 < R2COM> its funny that this $200 box i purchased years ago still is somewhat useful
2021-07-17T21:50:32 < R2COM> but ideally for future I'd like to have it all under open BSD system
2021-07-17T21:50:39 < R2COM> starting with just NAS of course
2021-07-17T21:50:50 < tct> just setup NFS
2021-07-17T21:50:59 < R2COM> since im not a huge data center thing... I guess even NAS with 2 2TB drives is OK for me
2021-07-17T21:51:00 < tct> Even Windows 10 comes with NFS clients these days
2021-07-17T21:51:00 < R2COM> for speed
2021-07-17T21:51:13 < tct> or SMB alternatively
2021-07-17T21:51:22 < tct> although that lost it's appeal a bit since NFSv4 for at least some cases
2021-07-17T21:51:30 < R2COM> here is what would be cool: 10Gbps FreeBSD NAS server
2021-07-17T21:51:45 < R2COM> and have 10Gbps PCIe card on PC toa ccess it fast
2021-07-17T21:52:16 < R2COM> i couldnt get nfs work
2021-07-17T21:52:18 < tct> I have several of those
2021-07-17T21:52:21 < tct> works great.
2021-07-17T21:52:26 < R2COM> i access  to synology nas from freebsd through smb
2021-07-17T21:52:48 < tct> you might want to do some performance tuning to get proper 10Gbps speed (sustained). In my cases that usually didn't take more than 30minutes.
2021-07-17T21:53:10 < R2COM> yeah ill get there
2021-07-17T21:53:16 < R2COM> but would be nice to have ready made manuals for it
2021-07-17T21:53:18 < R2COM> guides
2021-07-17T21:53:23 < tct> I gotta run, take care o/
2021-07-17T21:53:27 < tct> glad to hear that FreeBSD is working out for you.
2021-07-17T21:53:29 < R2COM> like, "building NAS from SSD on freebsd"
2021-07-17T21:53:42 < R2COM> btw, i also kinda have to use linux too....unfortunately
2021-07-17T21:54:02 < R2COM> im using fedora as guest OS in virtualbox on win10, to run my Xilinx FPGA synthesiz tools
2021-07-17T21:54:18 < R2COM> i decided not to pollute my FreeBSD with "linuxulator" shit
2021-07-17T21:54:35 < R2COM> less things which can break stuff
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2021-07-17T22:19:29 < Steffanx> Just install truenas and have your freebsd based NAS running in no time :P
2021-07-17T22:27:30 < Spirit532> Another silly question
2021-07-17T22:27:49 < Spirit532> The chip I'm using doesn't have RS485 hardware flow control - can I use USART's CTS pin for this or some other trick?
2021-07-17T22:28:13 < Spirit532> It's going to be a single device pair, the device is a slave, the other whatever is connected is the master
2021-07-17T22:29:17 < qyx> is it stm32?
2021-07-17T22:29:33 < qyx> I would say RTS is used for that purpose, not CTS
2021-07-17T22:30:07 < qyx> there is that drive enable thingy on stm32
2021-07-17T22:30:21 < Spirit532> yeah there's not on this one
2021-07-17T22:30:46 < qyx> and if not, you can manipulate whatever GPIO before transmit start and in the transmit completed interrupt
2021-07-17T22:31:00 < Spirit532> https://i.spirit.re/cLt9a.png
2021-07-17T22:31:03 < Spirit532> these are my only options
2021-07-17T22:47:51 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K8UpMNYIPo how barcodes were invented
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2021-07-17T23:15:58 < englishman> cool
2021-07-17T23:15:59 < englishman> ty
2021-07-17T23:37:10 < Steffanx> semi-sad story for tct ^ 
--- Day changed Sun Jul 18 2021
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2021-07-18T00:24:07 < brdb> jpa-: so this is what my DMA setup looks like that seems to be failing (the gpio toggling is just me lazily debugging with an led): https://pastebin.com/BEhbqGG8
2021-07-18T00:24:56 < brdb> i'm having issues getting DMA memory-to-memory transfer working (perhaps dma2d is needed/preferred?) to transfer pixel data from lvgl buffers to the LTDC frame buffer
2021-07-18T00:26:55 < brdb> fwiw this is using libopencm3
2021-07-18T00:28:24 < brdb> i did note that only the dma2 controller is able to do memory to memory, which is why i'm using it
2021-07-18T00:30:20 < brdb> also worth noting this is for the stm32f4, maybe karlp might know what stupid thing im probably forgetting to do for mem2mem dma to work here, or my logic in the isr is flawed
2021-07-18T00:38:19 < karlp> try enabling the error interrupts as well?
2021-07-18T00:40:44 < brdb> will do
2021-07-18T00:42:51 < karlp> "using some shitty opengl or somethign...."
2021-07-18T00:44:22 < brdb> hmm nope, doesn't seem to error either
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2021-07-18T01:16:13 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-07-18T01:16:30 < Laurenceb> is it possible to do one to many broadcasting by bouncing UDP packets off localhost?
2021-07-18T01:18:08 < Laurenceb> I've found some examples that send to INADDR_BROADCAST
2021-07-18T01:18:21 < Laurenceb> but what would happen if I just sent to 127.0.0.1  ?
2021-07-18T01:19:04 < Laurenceb> would that work as long as I set the broadcast socket option on the tx side and SO_REUSEPORT on the rx sides?
2021-07-18T01:23:39 < karlp> Spirit532: I've never tried actualyl using it in raw RTS mode.  "modern" usart peripherals, (ie, not f1-2-3-4, l1) have direct rs485 drive enable support, but before that, the ST recommended way was via GPIO toggling in the TC interrupt. (_not_ the TXE interrupt) 
2021-07-18T01:23:47 < karlp> ala https://github.com/karlp/fmb-demo/blob/master/opencm3-raw/mb_port/portserial.c#L147 and https://github.com/karlp/fmb-demo/blob/master/opencm3-raw/mb_port/portserial.c#L106
2021-07-18T01:24:04 < karlp> it might work tying it to rts directly, but... shrugsssss
2021-07-18T01:24:33 < karlp> there's an app note from ST on it, if you're really keen.  (it doesn't say much honestly, but... might be useful)
2021-07-18T01:28:13 < karlp> WHY AM I ONLY GETTING 3MB/s!?!
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2021-07-18T01:45:48 < karlp> hrm... should I corrupt this clean system and install python2?
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2021-07-18T03:08:24 < jadew> so I think I was successful in creating another product without a market
2021-07-18T03:09:17 < jadew> looking now for topics on eevblog on the subject, and there are like... 1
2021-07-18T03:10:34 < jadew> that thing I linked the other day, the two devices
2021-07-18T03:11:23 < jadew> one was a noise source, the other one was that flat gain amplifier, they would go hand in hand to create a noise figure measurement kit
2021-07-18T03:11:39 < jadew> problem is, I don't think many people are measuring noise figure hehe
2021-07-18T03:12:27 < jadew> don't know if I should invest in getting the enclosures for the noise source machined (I only have one prototype), and also order the custom connectors
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2021-07-18T03:21:58 < R2COM> "Generally it’s better to simply use the fetch and merge commands explicitly as the magic of git pull
2021-07-18T03:21:58 < R2COM> can often be confusing."
2021-07-18T03:22:08 < R2COM> >*reference manual of GIT*
2021-07-18T03:22:22 < R2COM> *magic* <-->*reference manual*
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2021-07-18T03:34:11 < brdb> so trying to do dma mem2mem copy seems to be getting stuck at checking the transfer complete flag which is troublesome: https://pastebin.com/Kf3gNAjP
2021-07-18T03:34:45 < brdb> line 36 if the comment isn't clear enough, i've tried to verify using the actual register address of what I believe to be the correct one for DMA2 stream 0
2021-07-18T03:36:15 < brdb> this snip from the ref manual has me believing that the copy is from periph to memory for mem-to-mem: https://i.stack.imgur.com/DKHpp.png
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2021-07-18T04:26:56 < brdb> i figured it out, i think i had the dma_stream_reset later when i set things and NVIC wasnt set correctly
2021-07-18T04:27:16 < brdb> also setting initial memory target to 0 seems (M0) seems to have helped, too
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2021-07-18T11:13:44 < karlp> who's rpaciorek?
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2021-07-18T13:09:52 < Steffanx> Must be the polish Rumpelstiltskin
2021-07-18T13:15:08 < tct> happyness arrived
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2021-07-18T13:27:18 < Steffanx> Hello sunshine
2021-07-18T13:27:22 < Steffanx> Mr tct
2021-07-18T13:28:27 < tct> Hello.
2021-07-18T13:28:58 < tct> <tct> somebody tell me a sad story please
2021-07-18T13:29:05 < tct> <xxx> some people use vlc
2021-07-18T13:45:51  * qyx too
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2021-07-18T14:05:03 < tct> somebody wake up mawk
2021-07-18T14:14:13 < Steffanx> No, let mawk sleep
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2021-07-18T14:29:18 < Streaker> How do you know mawk is asleep?
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2021-07-18T15:23:40 < tct> :>
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2021-07-18T16:43:49 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-07-18T16:43:54 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-07-18T16:44:21 < Laurenceb> database question: if I have a RECNO database, and create records 1,2,3, then 5000
2021-07-18T16:44:30 < Laurenceb> is space reserved for 5k records?
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2021-07-18T16:57:43 < Laurenceb> nmv got the answer
2021-07-18T16:58:03 < Laurenceb> BDB "RECNO" is actually BTREE with integer records rather than string
2021-07-18T16:58:26 < Laurenceb> but if you set mutable mode it will compress gaps and renumber records
2021-07-18T17:05:29 < Laurenceb> ok wtf
2021-07-18T17:05:39 < Laurenceb> supposedly even the c version of BDB is thread safe
2021-07-18T17:05:53 < Laurenceb> I'm confused as to how they manage that
2021-07-18T17:09:55 < Laurenceb> actually it could just wait on a mutex, derp
2021-07-18T17:10:40  * Laurenceb is answering his own questions, chat is dead
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2021-07-18T17:36:30 < Steffanx> Or no one cares ;)
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2021-07-18T20:09:35 < mawk> yes tct ?
2021-07-18T20:09:41 < mawk> look Steffanx https://serveur.io/Marcel-j.jpg
2021-07-18T20:09:58 < mawk> that's my great-great-great-uncle
2021-07-18T20:10:09 < mawk> he was a missionary priest
2021-07-18T20:10:10 < mawk> l'oncle Marcel
2021-07-18T20:10:25 < mawk> he catholicized the third world with his car and his funny hat
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2021-07-18T20:47:56 < Steffanx> Youre not proud of him for sure mawk..
2021-07-18T20:48:09 < mawk> no
2021-07-18T20:48:12 < mawk> bad Marcel
2021-07-18T20:48:23 < mawk> but he did it only because his mother told him two
2021-07-18T20:48:32 < mawk> his sisters were forced to become nuns as well
2021-07-18T20:48:37 < mawk> one of them escaped the covent
2021-07-18T20:48:48 < Steffanx> Lol. Joy
2021-07-18T20:49:33 < mawk> the degree of religiosity went decreasing down the family tree
2021-07-18T20:49:55 < mawk> the mother went to church every day and made her children priests and nuns
2021-07-18T20:50:05 < mawk> my grandparents go to church every week, my mother every year
2021-07-18T20:50:09 < mawk> and me well
2021-07-18T21:02:29 < Steffanx> You read the Bible daily. I know it
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2021-07-18T21:20:05 < mawk> lol
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2021-07-18T22:08:32 < upgrdman> heh. found out why my esp32cam has such shit framerates... the pcb antenna is crap. turns out i'm not the only one: https://www.reddit.com/r/esp32/comments/c4iy1j/aithinker_esp32_cam_slow_video_stream_try/ ... i wonder if soldering a 1/4 wavelength wire to the end of the pcb antenna would be helpful
2021-07-18T22:09:36 < qyx> my esp32cam has okish framerates
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2021-07-18T22:21:48 < Steffanx> So use the external antenna option upgrdman
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2021-07-18T23:54:36 < Steffanx> What kind of fancy thing you use the camera for mr qyx?
--- Day changed Mon Jul 19 2021
2021-07-19T00:12:19 < mouseghost> spying on someone i bet
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2021-07-19T01:02:14 < qyx> I'll smash those $%#^ TI battery gauges with a hammer
2021-07-19T01:02:22 < qyx> such a sad piece of IC
2021-07-19T01:03:20 < qyx> the I2C protocol is either a super legacy thing from the previous century
2021-07-19T01:03:58 < qyx> or it was designed by someone who never did a two concise lines of code
2021-07-19T01:04:35 < qyx> so lets enable a charging control
2021-07-19T01:04:59 < qyx> lookup the command format, yeah, look ez, send address and two bytes
2021-07-19T01:05:07 < qyx> oh wait, there is no command for FET control
2021-07-19T01:05:15 < qyx> oh, there are advanced commands!
2021-07-19T01:05:24 < qyx> they may have some parameters
2021-07-19T01:05:44 < qyx> so you have to use a "normal" command to write a parameter for the advanced command
2021-07-19T01:06:00 < qyx> then use the same command to write the actual advanced command to another register
2021-07-19T01:06:07 < qyx> and then it should work
2021-07-19T01:06:24 < qyx> oh wait, no, there is no fucking command to turn the FET on, only to toggle it
2021-07-19T01:06:39 < qyx> so you have to issue another command, from the table of advanced commands
2021-07-19T01:06:47 < qyx> to read the current state
2021-07-19T01:07:11 < qyx> but wait! wheres the return value?!
2021-07-19T01:07:44 < qyx> unbelievable, you have to issue another command to read the response
2021-07-19T01:09:16 < qyx> and now, those charging and discharging FETs are controlled by 3 different commands, ale of them are of toggle type
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2021-07-19T02:35:11 < R2COM> oh boy this vscode is not working quite well in few scenarios: 1) remote connection from linux server 2) on FreeBSD (and on linux) i see that Outline not working, i.e. not showing code browsing tags on a side
2021-07-19T02:35:24 < R2COM> it works beautifully on win10 tho.. but thats it
2021-07-19T02:35:53 < R2COM> vim is great, but I do not think vim alone is a serious tool for editing huge code project anywhere
2021-07-19T02:36:28 < R2COM> im afraid id have to move my MCU dev back on win10
2021-07-19T02:36:33 < R2COM> just cuz of that
2021-07-19T02:36:43 < R2COM> i.e. no serious editor on unix environment
2021-07-19T02:37:09 < R2COM> that c++ intellisense is a big deal, as well as ability to distinguish templated classes on preview
2021-07-19T02:37:14 < R2COM> but shit isnt working on unix
2021-07-19T02:37:26 < R2COM> and vim alone cant get it done on such high level
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2021-07-19T03:42:59 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/ea8wL20
2021-07-19T03:43:17 < Mangy_Dog> Half way done on this UI page
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2021-07-19T04:07:36 < R2COM> does anyone use vscode?
2021-07-19T04:07:41 < R2COM> in lunix..
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2021-07-19T04:55:49 < R2COM> fuck vscode
2021-07-19T04:56:18 < R2COM> i mean its only working ok natively in win10 on a machine
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2021-07-19T05:31:32 < upgrdman> does win10 have any tools built in for montioring ssd health? like wear leveling amount, etc? and is there a better tool than OpenHardwareMonitor?
2021-07-19T05:31:47 < upgrdman> OHM doesn't seem to have that info anyway
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2021-07-19T05:41:08 < upgrdman> hmm, this is a fork that is more alive, but still doesnt show ssd wear %. https://github.com/LibreHardwareMonitor/LibreHardwareMonitor
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2021-07-19T08:41:04 < jpa-> upgrdman: what would ssd wear % mean anyway? the total data written divided by some number specified by manufacturer?
2021-07-19T08:41:49 < upgrdman> ya
2021-07-19T08:41:50 < jpa-> or the smart "Percentage used" value?
2021-07-19T08:42:24 < upgrdman> like with QLC flash, a 500GB SSD might be rated for 2TB total writes (lol...)
2021-07-19T08:43:36 < jpa-> isn't that directly visible from any tool that shows smart information, if the drive actually reports it
2021-07-19T08:43:53 < jpa-> some SSD drives do not report percentage used, some do not even report total data written
2021-07-19T08:45:11 < upgrdman> ya does win10 come with any smart tool or do i need to download some random shit online
2021-07-19T08:46:45 < jpa-> IIRC it doesn't come with any that would actually show the data
2021-07-19T08:47:11 < jpa-> crystal disc mark is one i've used in past
2021-07-19T08:55:57 < rajkosto> crystaldiskinfo*
2021-07-19T08:56:04 < rajkosto> mark is only there to increase the numbers ;)
2021-07-19T08:56:29 < rajkosto> QLC is such a waste of sand
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2021-07-19T17:02:52 < Laurenceb> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottinghamshire-57672036
2021-07-19T17:02:59 < Laurenceb> typical Nottingham grrrrl
2021-07-19T17:03:41 < Laurenceb> wait
2021-07-19T17:03:44 < Laurenceb> >they say
2021-07-19T17:03:50 < Laurenceb> ok I dont even know now
2021-07-19T17:04:39 < Laurenceb> >hypermobile spectrum disorder 
2021-07-19T17:04:45 < Laurenceb> I cant even right now
2021-07-19T17:06:01 < Laurenceb> keeeeekkk they have a site
2021-07-19T17:06:13 < Laurenceb> its the new maya posch/chris-chan
2021-07-19T17:14:48 < mawk> where's the site
2021-07-19T17:18:51 < Laurenceb> https://www.jasepuddicombe.com/
2021-07-19T17:19:44 < mawk> "puddicombe" wtf is that name
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2021-07-19T18:28:14 < sauce> the fuck is wrong with you blaxter
2021-07-19T18:28:16 < sauce> i dont even wanna know
2021-07-19T18:28:24 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o sauce] by ChanServ
2021-07-19T18:28:44 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b Laurenceb!*@*] by sauce
2021-07-19T18:29:10 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o sauce] by sauce
2021-07-19T18:34:42 < specing> sauce: wtf?
2021-07-19T18:35:42 < Steffanx> specing: wtf?
2021-07-19T18:39:52 < englishman> good ban
--- Log closed Mon Jul 19 18:53:58 2021
--- Log opened Mon Jul 19 18:54:06 2021
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2021-07-19T18:54:11 < Steffanx> Im not sure what other sauces he was in the past
2021-07-19T18:54:14 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: thx
2021-07-19T18:54:18 < Steffanx> Jpsauce.
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2021-07-19T21:22:26 < kakium69> summer is over
2021-07-19T21:22:37 < kakium69> it's official
2021-07-19T21:24:42 < kakium69> 16celsius
2021-07-19T21:25:51 < srk> 23here.. gonna climb back to 30 next week
2021-07-19T21:26:30 < srk> I sorta wish summer was over, neighbors kids screaming in pool drives me nuts
2021-07-19T21:27:52 < kakium69> undress
2021-07-19T21:28:01 < srk> xD
2021-07-19T21:28:02 < kakium69> run towards them screming like madman
2021-07-19T21:28:08 < kakium69> screaming
2021-07-19T21:28:22 < kakium69> do belly dive in the pool
2021-07-19T21:28:34 < srk> expected undress -> pull your dick out xD
2021-07-19T21:29:08 < kakium69> effectivelly cops are going to arrive for you but kids are now afraid
2021-07-19T21:32:54 < srk> :D
2021-07-19T21:37:14 < kakium69> also parents are afraid
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2021-07-19T21:55:31 < Steffanx> srk: Just become kakium69's neighbour in the middle of nowhere
2021-07-19T21:56:10 < srk> sorta my plan :)
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2021-07-19T22:24:46 < tct> what's your opinion on bees?
2021-07-19T22:25:36 < kakium69> bees are great
2021-07-19T22:25:44 < kakium69> are there any other opinion?
2021-07-19T22:33:46 < englishman> yeah bees are the best
2021-07-19T22:36:28 < Steffanx> I dont see bees so often
2021-07-19T22:36:48 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-19T22:36:55 < kakium69> that is good thing too
2021-07-19T22:37:04 < kakium69> they mind their business
2021-07-19T22:37:13 < Steffanx> Yeah, unlike wasps
2021-07-19T22:38:20 < fury> is there a way to add the "price" column to the microcontroller product selector, or like, some kind of spreadsheet that includes the price?
2021-07-19T22:39:40 < Steffanx> the product selector tool has it..
2021-07-19T22:39:52 < englishman> my ankle is still all swollen from a wasp sting a week ago
2021-07-19T22:40:03 < Steffanx> but im not sure if there is really a point in using those 10k prices, fury.
2021-07-19T22:40:49 < Steffanx> First because stm32 is pretty much unavailable. And second because most prices are way above that and semi-random/demand based.
2021-07-19T22:41:59 < tct> a customer is currently developing some gadget with an STM32H750 and an STM32F455 - they are almost crying due to supply chain issues
2021-07-19T22:42:00 < Mangy_Dog> are stm32s still in short over priced supply?
2021-07-19T22:42:02 < fury> yeah, chip shortage notwithstanding, just trying to plan ahead for a few years from now, looking for the lowest priced stm32 micro that has USB (device or otg), spi, and an i2s (separate from the spi). F042C6 is what i've come up with so far
2021-07-19T22:42:06 < tct> although being a big ass corporation like them seems to help.
2021-07-19T22:42:50 < fury> i'm not seeing the price column tho :(
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2021-07-19T22:42:58 < fury> i have to click into each one individually adn go to the "Sample & Buy"
2021-07-19T22:43:16 < fury> not finding it in the "Customize columns" button
2021-07-19T22:43:23 < Steffanx> are you using this java based tool or some web based tool?
2021-07-19T22:43:27 < Steffanx> stm32cubemx has it for sure
2021-07-19T22:43:29 < englishman> yeah isnt that in stm32cube?
2021-07-19T22:43:32 < fury> on the web
2021-07-19T22:43:38 < englishman> time to install JAVA
2021-07-19T22:43:41 < Steffanx> and they have a product selector java tool too
2021-07-19T22:43:42 < fury> oh, cool, i have cube open in another window, just didn't know it had that info
2021-07-19T22:43:45 < fury> sweet
2021-07-19T22:43:54 < fury> thanks!
2021-07-19T22:44:03 < englishman> might be better off cruising the GD32 catalogue
2021-07-19T22:44:18 < englishman> or even ESP32
2021-07-19T22:44:19 < Steffanx> not suggesting msp4x0?
2021-07-19T22:44:35 < englishman> not since they're all out of stock.
2021-07-19T22:45:11 < fury> i do have a couple projects spinning up using an esp32, but since they don't have enough I/O or a USB controller, i have to give it a little bit of help
2021-07-19T22:47:45 < kakium69> is mlcc shortage still happening?
2021-07-19T22:54:19 < zyp> fury, I'd also expect f042 to be the cheapest usb-capable stm32
2021-07-19T22:54:37 < zyp> so you're unlikely to find anything cheaper
2021-07-19T22:54:54 < fury> makes sense. i see it and the f072 used in some CAN dongles
2021-07-19T22:55:04 < fury> there's probably a reason
2021-07-19T22:55:43 < zyp> well, the f0 is cost optimized, and the f042 is the lowest part with usb at all
2021-07-19T22:56:09 < zyp> personally I avoid it though
2021-07-19T22:56:43 < zyp> you can't easily run a custom usb bootloader on those, which tends to be a requirement in my projects
2021-07-19T22:57:57 < zyp> so I've been using l052 instead, but going forward I'm probably more likely to use g0b1
2021-07-19T22:58:13 < zyp> assuming they get reasonable availability by then
2021-07-19T22:59:25 < fury> hmm. good to know. i don't think i need anything more fancy than the built in usb dfu for this one... but i do sometimes have to run a custom bootloader of some kind (flash updates via a USB flash drive, CAN bus, etc.)
2021-07-19T22:59:54 < fury> this time i'm doing something completely different than anything i've done before, a USB device rather than a host, and with just enough firmware to enable the SPI/GPIO/I2S access from a Linux host
2021-07-19T23:00:44 < zyp> the issue is that cortex-m0 doesn't have the SCB_VTOR register that allows you to relocate the vector table, which you generally want to point it at the application image
2021-07-19T23:01:29 < zyp> there's alternative ways of solving it, but I don't like those
2021-07-19T23:01:54 < zyp> cortex-m0+ added it back in, so I simply just avoid cortex-m0
2021-07-19T23:02:00 < fury> ah. yep, have had to do those (double function jumps from the bootloader's vector table and whatnot)
2021-07-19T23:02:03 < zyp> f0 is m0, l0 and g0 is m0+
2021-07-19T23:02:11 < fury> ah
2021-07-19T23:02:13 < fury> nice
2021-07-19T23:02:28 < fury> thanks!
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--- Day changed Tue Jul 20 2021
2021-07-20T00:03:08 < kakium69> tesla makes driving assist monthly subscription
2021-07-20T00:03:51 < kakium69> it makes sense as it's really more of a service that needs constant development
2021-07-20T00:03:59 < kakium69> but
2021-07-20T00:05:41 < kakium69> are they asking people who have paid for it to bend over
2021-07-20T00:05:45 < kakium69> at some point
2021-07-20T00:05:46 < kakium69> will see
2021-07-20T00:19:41 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2021-07-20T00:21:12 < zyp> only when they replace the car
2021-07-20T00:21:46 < zyp> cars bought when they had free supercharging got to keep that when they started charging
2021-07-20T00:22:11 < kakium69> what if car is sold to new owner?
2021-07-20T00:22:34 < zyp> unsure, IIRC there's been some controversy over that before (wrt. supercharging)
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2021-07-20T00:38:45 < englishman> what bending over would there to be done
2021-07-20T00:38:52 < englishman> you can buy it and pay the fixed fee
2021-07-20T00:38:57 < englishman> or pay monthly
2021-07-20T00:39:33 < englishman> idk if it's a smart move, they are not likely to get many sales until they actually ship selfdriving
2021-07-20T00:39:42 < englishman> which may never happen
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2021-07-20T01:21:24 < kakium69> tesla guys are marketing geniuses
2021-07-20T01:25:05 < kakium69> implied self driving that couldn't drive itself yet, but "any day now" for years!
2021-07-20T01:25:30 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dguBEoU6OQ8
2021-07-20T01:25:52 < machinehum> This guys accent is awesome
2021-07-20T01:26:12 < machinehum> Watch Dracula disassemble flyback power supplies
2021-07-20T01:26:26 < kakium69> ah those ebay wrappers and labels
2021-07-20T01:27:03 < machinehum> English label says made in Vetnam Russian says made in China "Booooddddyyyy Hellll"
2021-07-20T01:27:31 < brdb> does the stm32f0 not actually have CAN Bus capability? i see the F1 referenced a lot given it's common usage in automotive type environments
2021-07-20T01:28:07 < brdb> it keeps failing to set the CAN_MSR_INAK bit
2021-07-20T01:30:04 < kakium69> machinehum: indeed it's very personal accent
2021-07-20T01:30:31 < kakium69> and never buy phone charger delivered from china
2021-07-20T01:31:09 < machinehum> I would immagine they're all made in China?
2021-07-20T01:31:13 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-20T01:31:26 < machinehum> Vetnam
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2021-07-20T01:32:38 < kakium69> there is a thing called supply chain
2021-07-20T01:33:48 < kakium69> when you order psu from ebay for 1.5usd the supply chain goes out of window and you get the direct access to most horrible things you can connect to mains
2021-07-20T01:36:29 < machinehum> Sounds about right
2021-07-20T01:39:57 < machinehum> Is UL worth getting
2021-07-20T01:40:12 < machinehum> If design a mains device safely and just sell it
2021-07-20T01:40:19 < machinehum> What would happen
2021-07-20T01:42:37 < kakium69> sell it on ebay via china
2021-07-20T01:43:31 < mouseghost> wahts UL?
2021-07-20T01:43:41 < kakium69> cert
2021-07-20T01:43:44 < machinehum> idk some American BS
2021-07-20T01:43:55 < mouseghost> mm imagine doing mains without no stinky certs
2021-07-20T01:44:31 < machinehum> I should just send my build to Diodes gone wild
2021-07-20T01:44:38 < machinehum> He can take a look
2021-07-20T01:44:40 < kakium69> welcome back to early 20th century
2021-07-20T01:45:46 < kakium69> houses had open wiring
2021-07-20T01:46:10 < kakium69> there was no standards for voltage or plug
2021-07-20T01:46:17 < mouseghost> buttplug?
2021-07-20T01:46:25 < machinehum> open wiring what?
2021-07-20T01:46:27 < machinehum> Like...
2021-07-20T01:46:37 < kakium69> copper running on open
2021-07-20T01:46:38 < machinehum> No insulation
2021-07-20T01:46:40 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-20T01:46:48 < mouseghost> open ckt ofc
2021-07-20T01:46:51 < machinehum> Oh fuck I didn't know that was a thing
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2021-07-20T01:50:01 < mouseghost> people had like bladders in windows back in the day
2021-07-20T01:50:11 < mouseghost> and used intestines as condoms
2021-07-20T01:51:45 < kakium69> they used bladders as window panel yes
2021-07-20T02:01:39 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-07-20T02:06:24 < kakium69> but that was before open mains wiring
2021-07-20T02:06:55 < kakium69> glass panels are way older invention than electricity
2021-07-20T02:08:49 < specing> I think the term here is 'discovery', at least for electricity
2021-07-20T02:12:23 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-20T02:14:58 < machinehum> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cyan-a-crypto-token-providing-residual-income#/
2021-07-20T02:15:01 < machinehum> Yikes
2021-07-20T02:15:04 < machinehum> What a fucking scan
2021-07-20T02:15:06 < machinehum> scam
2021-07-20T02:20:02 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpivB8z0gU0 Traxx - Discovery
2021-07-20T02:27:31 < machinehum> I just downloaded the entire album
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2021-07-20T04:07:08 < MrMobius> just got an f0 board. is SW4STM32 what i should be using?
2021-07-20T04:07:29 < MrMobius> last stm32 project was 2015 and i was just cusing gcc on command line
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2021-07-20T04:23:40 < MrMobius> lol that wont download
2021-07-20T04:23:58 < MrMobius> and STM32CubeIDE keeps giving me an incomplete zip
2021-07-20T04:24:04 < MrMobius> i forgot what a clown show this is
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2021-07-20T06:00:11 < R2COM> maybe its time to drive some effort on this channel to write up own library
2021-07-20T06:01:49 -!- specing_ is now known as specing
2021-07-20T06:04:08 < sauce> a number of people here have contributed to libopencm3
2021-07-20T06:05:11 < R2COM> im talking about proper library like "hal" but from scratch and only in c++ with latest features
2021-07-20T06:08:31 < MrMobius> why would you do that?
2021-07-20T06:10:20 < R2COM> why would we drive cars to work now? we used horses long time ago and can even do today rite
2021-07-20T06:22:51 < machinehum> R2COM: I can help
2021-07-20T06:22:57 < machinehum> I already wrote a turnip CLI
2021-07-20T06:23:19 < machinehum> https://github.com/Machine-Hum/turnip_cli
2021-07-20T06:27:40 < R2COM> im not going to use libopencm3
2021-07-20T06:33:47 < machinehum> Fair
2021-07-20T06:33:53 < machinehum> C++ would be nice for sure
2021-07-20T06:34:13 < machinehum> What's going on with the STM32 zepher hal?
2021-07-20T06:34:20 < machinehum> I think they're writing their own hals
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2021-07-20T11:07:32 < tct> hello
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2021-07-20T11:39:11 < Steffanx> Hello mr tct
2021-07-20T11:41:56 < Steffanx> Hows it with the flowers and the bees?
2021-07-20T11:57:19 < tct> yeah
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2021-07-20T12:53:23 < zyp> «it is»
2021-07-20T13:28:58 < englishman> Steffanx: there is a sale on used iphones. what's the oldest iphone i should get
2021-07-20T13:30:27 < Steffanx> Like I know something about iPhone.
2021-07-20T13:30:44 < Steffanx> The only i* device I owned as an ipod touch
2021-07-20T13:31:17 < englishman> oh i thought you had one, sry.
2021-07-20T13:31:36 < englishman> i figure this is a good way to try it out without spending $1600 on a new one
2021-07-20T13:41:24 < Steffanx> Hah nope
2021-07-20T13:41:44 < ventyl> probably old SE or maybe iphone 6, based on if you are willing to carry large device with you
2021-07-20T13:42:08 < englishman> that's older than they are even selling
2021-07-20T13:42:11 < ventyl> everything older than that is not supported by recent iOS, but is still quite usable*
2021-07-20T13:42:32 < englishman> the oldest is iphone 7 for $100
2021-07-20T13:43:04 < englishman> i was more considering iphone x for $350 while used ones with cracked screens are listed on the used market for $500
2021-07-20T13:43:17 < ventyl> AFAIK it still has support in latest iOS
2021-07-20T13:43:34 < ventyl> and even after latest iOS won't support it, there will be security updates for years
2021-07-20T13:44:11 < englishman> cool. i have this samdongs assdroid i bought in 2019. they already stopped updating it
2021-07-20T13:45:53 < ventyl> i bought iphone based on three requirements: small form factor, still supported by latest OS, low price (generally below 100 EUR)
2021-07-20T13:46:38 < ventyl> no android could fulfill more than two of them, many could only one
2021-07-20T13:47:00 < ventyl> a month after I bought it, apple dropped support for it in new major release of iOS :>
2021-07-20T13:47:22 < englishman> they have wireless charging since iphone 8 so i think that's the lower limit for me
2021-07-20T13:53:38 < zyp> if you wanted something cheap but up to date, wouldn't the android one phones be the best bet?
2021-07-20T13:54:43 < ventyl> surprisingly not
2021-07-20T13:55:01 < ventyl> cheap androids were either outdated or of extreme form factor
2021-07-20T13:55:39 < ventyl> small form factor androids were either extremely outdated (android 4 typically) or expensive almost-new ones
2021-07-20T13:56:04 < Steffanx> Cheap and up to date? Is that possible?
2021-07-20T13:56:53 < ventyl> well, i ended up with 60 EUR phone, which now runs for third year and still receives updates. so apparently yes
2021-07-20T13:57:00 < ventyl> it just isn't android
2021-07-20T13:57:44 < zyp> ah, you mean it receives security updates, not OS upgrades?
2021-07-20T13:58:22 < ventyl> yes, but if I opted for twice-as-pricey iphone SE, it would still receive OS updates
2021-07-20T13:58:23 < Steffanx> Oh I meant cheap and up to date in the android world.
2021-07-20T13:59:17 < ventyl> and while it is still supported by apps I need, I don't even care about lack of new OS
2021-07-20T13:59:33 < ventyl> i assume that HW will be worn out well before apps stop supporting me
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2021-07-20T15:58:40 < jadew> this guy has a nice gig (link will pollute your feed with hot stuff): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQGNAdNhxCM
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2021-07-20T16:34:37 < Steffanx> You like plastic, jadew. I know this might be common in romania, but.. meh ;)
2021-07-20T16:35:21 < jadew> T+20, jeff bezos in his rocket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLTF1xV-dY
2021-07-20T16:37:48 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm not a fan of plastic, but I would drink from it
2021-07-20T16:38:26 < jadew> I wish I found that feed before it started
2021-07-20T16:38:49 < jadew> Musk was probably watching it hoping it would blow up
2021-07-20T16:39:33 < jadew> oh, and they landed the rocket too
2021-07-20T16:39:37 < jadew> just like spacex
2021-07-20T16:41:45 < jadew> has Musk been to space?
2021-07-20T16:42:18 < jadew> maybe he can launch himself in that tesla he was planning to put into space
2021-07-20T16:49:13 < jadew> Commies are upset about Bezzos' trip. According to their logic, he spent their money lol: https://newrepublic.com/article/162928/richard-branson-jeff-bezos-space-blue-origin
2021-07-20T16:49:38 < jadew> "Richard Branson, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk are spending billions to go to space, using money and resources that belong to the people."
2021-07-20T16:52:24 < jadew> the USA is so fucked. I see a communism driven famine in their future.
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2021-07-20T17:11:46 < Steffanx> Sending people to space for 15 seconds is boring already
2021-07-20T17:12:34 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/Q99KRKk
2021-07-20T17:12:48 < bitmask> for anyone interested, i combined most of my images from my cloud chamber build into one album
2021-07-20T17:14:06 < Steffanx> Need to order them the other way around :P
2021-07-20T17:14:21 < Steffanx> Or tell people to start at the bottom
2021-07-20T17:15:45 < bitmask> meh
2021-07-20T17:22:37 < benishor> bitmask: pics from functioning?
2021-07-20T17:23:19 < bitmask> not yet, i only tried it once and it didnt get cold enough, close but not quite there.  My room was also 31C at the time so i think i'll be ok on a cooler day or in a room that the AC actually gets to
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2021-07-20T17:30:25 < jadew> bitmask, I thought you're going to show us some radiation
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2021-07-20T17:31:02 < bitmask> working out a few kinks
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2021-07-20T18:11:25 < brdb> for those who have used the CAN periph, i'm getting stuck on waiting for the STM32 to set the INAK bit in CAN_MSR after requesting init mode via setting INRQ in CAN_MCR. i've made sure the GPIOs are setup right with the right AF and even tried pulling the RX pin high externally to make sure this works but nada. triple checked the rcc periph clocks for CAN, required GPIO, etc. are set
2021-07-20T18:11:53 < brdb> this is wildly infuriating with how simple it is and it still failing. somehow, somewhere they're forgetting to mention something about what else CAN needs to init
2021-07-20T18:12:23 < brdb> on the f0 it shares the interrupt with CEC and some SRAM with USBFS
2021-07-20T18:14:44 < srk> there's a bit in some CAN reg that can be used to put it into loopback internally so you can completely rule out pins/af
2021-07-20T18:15:56 < srk> there's like one or two version of bxcan accross whole device range so it should work everywhere if you have good driver, not sure about interrupts
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2021-07-20T18:26:03 < brdb> no dice on setting that prior to INRQ :/
2021-07-20T18:27:56 < brdb> oh my god im so stupid
2021-07-20T18:28:26 < brdb> trying to debug things at 1-2 am resulted in me calling the lower level init function prior to initalizing the actual rcc periph clocks
2021-07-20T18:28:28 < brdb> it's working now
2021-07-20T18:28:54 < srk> yay \o/
2021-07-20T18:47:58 < PaulFertser> Fucking "Do's" are so lengthy and complex compared to "Don't's" https://testing.googleblog.com/2019/11/code-health-respectful-reviews-useful.html The price you pay for respect eh?
2021-07-20T18:53:21 < jadew> first one is "DO: Assume competence." - pretty big assumption to make
2021-07-20T18:53:27 < jadew> what happened to never make assumptions?
2021-07-20T18:58:41 < jadew> "don't criticize the person" aka "don't tell them their code is shit, tell them the code is shit."
2021-07-20T19:00:15 < jadew> I think google is either hiring lots of snowflakes or a snowflake is writing those guidelines
2021-07-20T19:00:22 < jadew> DON’T: Use harsh language. Code review comments with a negative tone are less likely to be useful. For example, prior research found very negative comments were considered useful by authors 57% of the time, while more-neutral comments were useful 79% of the time. 
2021-07-20T19:00:56 < jadew> who gives a shit weather they considered it useful or not. what they should have measured is weather it got the point across and if it made a difference
2021-07-20T19:01:32 < jadew> making it cozy for idiots seems like the wrong approach here
2021-07-20T19:02:08 < jadew> you're so dumb that code reviews make you feel bad? fucking quit and let someone competent fill your position
2021-07-20T19:04:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: are you talking from a personal experience? Were you involved in routine code reviews in your job or hobby before?
2021-07-20T19:04:50 < jadew> if I received that list, I would puke on my keyboard and quit right after
2021-07-20T19:04:53 < jadew> PaulFertser, I was, yes
2021-07-20T19:05:27 < jadew> it make the assumption that the programmers are socially inept
2021-07-20T19:05:39 < jadew> (that list)
2021-07-20T19:07:21 < Steffanx> More-neutral != cosy 
2021-07-20T19:07:38 < jadew> why would you want it to be neutral tho?
2021-07-20T19:07:45 < Steffanx> Its not that hard to make some more neutral.
2021-07-20T19:07:47 < jadew> if someone constantly pisses you off, you have to show it
2021-07-20T19:08:00 < Steffanx> Ok. Fuck you jadew.
2021-07-20T19:08:04 < PaulFertser> jadew: from my experience reviewing patches from OpenOCD I got an impression it's usually better for the project to kinda follow guidelines like that. It doesn't cost anything (you can mechanically transform your thoughts to this "snowflake"-speak) but it does help to get more contributions. And I do _not_ have a feeling people that can be easily offended never provide anything useful.
2021-07-20T19:08:13 < jadew> if you don't, then you're going to pay the price for someone else's mistakes 
2021-07-20T19:08:24 < jadew> Steffanx, see? it wasn't so hard.
2021-07-20T19:08:46 < Steffanx> This was more neutral. It was going to be even worse 😋
2021-07-20T19:09:05 < jadew> PaulFertser, well, being offensive just for the sake of it, isn't ok either
2021-07-20T19:09:20 < jadew> and that person will get naturally punished anyway
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2021-07-20T19:09:49 < jadew> the point is that we already know how to communicate extremely well
2021-07-20T19:10:21 < jadew> nobody needs this kindergarten approach to regulating what it basically is... speech
2021-07-20T19:10:44 < PaulFertser> jadew: the problem is that different people have different sets of "offensive things". So why not play it safe and try to not offend as many as reasonably possible?
2021-07-20T19:10:47 < Steffanx> You always talk bitchy so you write bitchy too?
2021-07-20T19:10:52 < jadew> if you want to make a useful list, suggest what resource to be linked in the comments
2021-07-20T19:11:02 < Steffanx> I wouldnt want to work with you jadew ;)
2021-07-20T19:11:41 < PaulFertser> See jadew , you already pissed off a very talented potential contributor to your business ;)
2021-07-20T19:11:52 < jadew> Steffanx, I'm going over my head to be understanding when it comes to team work
2021-07-20T19:12:00 < Steffanx> And im not sure if we really know how to communicate well, jadew
2021-07-20T19:12:01 < PaulFertser> Imagine how awesome it would be to spend all your time on cool RF magic and let Steffanx do the dirty stm32 work.
2021-07-20T19:12:44 < Steffanx> Especially in the autistic engineering world.
2021-07-20T19:13:29 < jadew> PaulFertser, I would rather be honest and upfront, and deal only with people that are able to resonate with that, rather than have to deal with lies and misdirection, and have the hassle of keeping appearances up
2021-07-20T19:14:22 < jadew> people who can't take or give criticism don't make for good team mates
2021-07-20T19:14:38 < PaulFertser> jadew: that's one approach, quite possibly it works nicely in certain niches; I think Linus used to be like that.
2021-07-20T19:16:13 < jadew> thing is, you would only use this kind of persuasive language with people who can't admit when they are wrong or stupid
2021-07-20T19:16:21 < jadew> those are the worst kind of people to work with
2021-07-20T19:16:45 < PaulFertser> It can work well for a small high-profile command too, but you'd be somewhat limited with personell choices. It seems like many high-performance autists can be quite touchy or hard to deal with but still worth time spent on "pacifying" them.
2021-07-20T19:18:11 < jadew> don't know... I feel like I can work with any kind of personality. I just don't have a good tolerance for BS
2021-07-20T19:26:59 < jadew> Steffanx, why do you think you wouldn't like to work with me?
2021-07-20T19:27:46 < jadew> because I wouldn't accept the kind of nonsense in that list?
2021-07-20T19:29:27 < Steffanx> If you only expect other to change, then I probably wouldnt enjoy it. No ;)
2021-07-20T19:29:32 < Steffanx> Others*
2021-07-20T19:29:45 < jadew> who said I expect only others?
2021-07-20T19:29:59 < jadew> I think I cued in the fact that I expect equally honest reviews
2021-07-20T19:30:10 < jadew> why would I want anything other than the straight truth?
2021-07-20T19:30:29 < Steffanx> You said you prefer to keep up your bitchy (you never used this word I know) game.
2021-07-20T19:30:58 < Steffanx> You can tell the truth without being agressieve, bitchy or whatever. 
2021-07-20T19:31:20 < Steffanx> And sure you can be, but.. only when its neccessary. Not ALWAYS.
2021-07-20T19:31:23 < jadew> I didn't claim otherwise, but if I want to be bitchy, I want to be able to be bitchy. This is what I'm defending.
2021-07-20T19:32:04 < jadew> and my claim is not only that it's healthy to be able to do that, but also required and desirable in many instances.
2021-07-20T19:33:01 < jadew> because sometimes the accumulation of sourness against someone has the perfectly fine effect of pushing that person off the team/out of the company
2021-07-20T19:33:11 < jadew> it works out for everyone
2021-07-20T19:34:41 < jadew> forcing people to be nice to each other is the most absurd thing ever
2021-07-20T19:35:27 < jadew> this is the worst side effect of the PC culture
2021-07-20T19:35:43 < jadew> well, maybe not the worst, but it's up there
2021-07-20T19:39:33 < jadew> Steffanx, you disagree?
2021-07-20T19:56:38 < Steffanx> No, as long as bitchy is not your default mode
2021-07-20T19:57:02 < jadew> what made you think that it is?
2021-07-20T19:57:57 < Steffanx> Idk. My interpretation skills
2021-07-20T19:58:09 < jpa-> to me that list seems good
2021-07-20T19:58:41 < jpa-> it doesn't forbid criticism, it gives good advice on how to format it to achieve results
2021-07-20T19:59:21 < jpa-> saying things in a bitchy way often doesn't achieve anything
2021-07-20T19:59:22 < jadew> it pampers people's feelings
2021-07-20T19:59:54 < jadew> why is bitchy the go to?
2021-07-20T20:00:02 < jpa-> sure, and that is good, because people have different sensitivies independent of their ability to code
2021-07-20T20:00:07 < jadew> or is normal speak bitchy?
2021-07-20T20:00:34 < jadew> jpa-, people deal with each other's sensitivities all the time
2021-07-20T20:00:48 < jpa-> and sometimes they deal with them badly
2021-07-20T20:01:04 < jadew> and when that happens, someone grows
2021-07-20T20:01:09 < jpa-> not really
2021-07-20T20:01:12 < jadew> there's no downside to it
2021-07-20T20:01:25 < jpa-> often what happens that people feel bad and company loses a programmer
2021-07-20T20:01:42 < jadew> I see that as a negative feedback loop
2021-07-20T20:02:17 < jpa-> i can see your point about a selection process, and that would be fine if there was an plentiful supply of competent programmers
2021-07-20T20:02:42 < jadew> you're making it sound like people are not tolerant at all
2021-07-20T20:02:52 < jpa-> there is not, so it makes sense not to drive out the sensitive ones just because they are sensitive - often they can be pretty good exactly because they take their own defiencies hard
2021-07-20T20:03:00 < jadew> people leaving or getting upset over this stuff would only happen in extreme situations
2021-07-20T20:03:21 < jadew> where either people are emotionally sick, and the rest of the group don't have to carry the burden
2021-07-20T20:03:27 < jpa-> the examples on that page are not extreme, i can agree with that - real code reviews can be much worse
2021-07-20T20:03:36 < jadew> or someone is excessively mean, in which case that person is most likely to get the boot
2021-07-20T20:04:20 < jpa-> why not write a list of examples that helps the excessively mean person be less mean?
2021-07-20T20:04:32 < jadew> because fuck them
2021-07-20T20:04:42 < jadew> why teach an asshole how to be a covert asshole?
2021-07-20T20:04:45 < jpa-> and simultaneously helps the other party communicate better so that they are not left alone with their anxiety
2021-07-20T20:04:57 < jpa-> because then they can be a functional part of the workplace
2021-07-20T20:05:23 < jadew> I have serious doubts that a few rules on how to write something, will hold someone back from being disruptive
2021-07-20T20:05:26 < jpa-> companies are full of covert assholes, and that is fine as long as they do their job and don't ruin the workplace for others
2021-07-20T20:06:12 < jadew> assholes that don't bother others are not assholes tho
2021-07-20T20:06:19 < jpa-> not if they really want to be mean, but a lot of people are not expert on being nice.. and many programmers struggle with social situations, and that kind of lists are exactly what programmers can follow
2021-07-20T20:07:01 < jadew> I really think it's disrespectful
2021-07-20T20:07:13 < jpa-> you are offended by the list of how to avoid offending people? :)
2021-07-20T20:07:15 < jadew> like I said earlier, it make the assumption that they're socially inept
2021-07-20T20:07:38 < jadew> jpa-, I would be offended if it was given to me, yeah hehe
2021-07-20T20:07:53 < jpa-> how would you write such a list so that it could help those that *are* socially inept, but wouldn't hurt jadew
2021-07-20T20:07:56 < jpa-> 's feelings?
2021-07-20T20:09:05 < jadew> I would only focus on the technical aspects and let the social part play out normally
2021-07-20T20:09:38 < jadew> it wouldn't be my place to police how my teammates or employees are interacting with each other
2021-07-20T20:09:56 < jpa-> i guess i wouldn't want to work at your company :)
2021-07-20T20:10:19 < jadew> you don't like freedom of expression?
2021-07-20T20:10:45 < jpa-> no, i don't think it belongs to workplace
2021-07-20T20:11:03 < jadew> some forms do, others don't
2021-07-20T20:11:05 < jpa-> similarly with political views, i think it is important that people can express them, but i don't think it belongs at workplace
2021-07-20T20:11:18 < jadew> but that's dictated by the social group
2021-07-20T20:11:47 < jpa-> small teams and small companies often work without such written rules, because everyone knows everybody
2021-07-20T20:11:57 < jadew> jpa-, why not? if people feel like talking about politics, why limit their freedom on that?
2021-07-20T20:12:01 < jpa-> it gets very different at the scale of google and similar
2021-07-20T20:12:16 < jadew> so in a bigger company you behave like on the street
2021-07-20T20:12:25 < jpa-> jadew: because it does not make the company perform better, and can make it perform worse
2021-07-20T20:13:06 < jadew> I doubt everyone behaving normal would have any downsides
2021-07-20T20:13:22 < jadew> in fact, you can look at google and that programmer who was fired for wrong speak
2021-07-20T20:13:25 < jadew> then the media backlash
2021-07-20T20:13:42 < jadew> I would say that's pretty bad, and it wouldn't have happened if people weren't thought policed
2021-07-20T20:13:50 < jadew> what was the benefit of that?
2021-07-20T20:14:09 < jpa-> probably every company over 100 people has several good employees that do not fit your idea of "normal"
2021-07-20T20:14:34 < jadew> that's fine, and the social group sets their own boundaries
2021-07-20T20:15:05 < jadew> it's really silly to think that someone with a pen and a piece of paper can come up with a list that replaces millions of years of evolution
2021-07-20T20:15:37 < jpa-> it's really silly to think that millions of years of evolution make things work well in a very specific context that has only existed for less than 50 years
2021-07-20T20:16:02 < jadew> people have worked together since the beginning of time - we are social animals
2021-07-20T20:16:27 < jadew> and we're are perfectly capable of setting limits, knowing what they are and punishing those that cross them accordingly
2021-07-20T20:16:32 < Steffanx> And people have killed each other for just as long for not bring able to work together 
2021-07-20T20:16:41 < jadew> exactly
2021-07-20T20:16:41 < Steffanx> Or just because.
2021-07-20T20:16:50 < Steffanx> Lets work with jadew and kill him
2021-07-20T20:17:08 < jadew> well that would be illegal, but you could get me fired if I pissed everyone off
2021-07-20T20:17:23 < jadew> if I only pissed you off and everyone else likes me, then tough luck 
2021-07-20T20:17:26 < jpa-> you seem to also think that the list is some kind of golden rule that is forced upon employees; to me it just appears like a list of tips by a small group - i don't get why you are so offended by some google employee giving their view on how code reviews work well
2021-07-20T20:17:53 < jadew> jpa-, I'm not offended - it wasn't made for me
2021-07-20T20:18:35 < jadew> but I think it's a stupid list that is disrespectful and counter productive
2021-07-20T20:19:13 < jadew> people who get a little power they tend to abuse it, and I think that list is the result of that
2021-07-20T20:19:38 < jadew> the same thing can be seen in some coding guidelines
2021-07-20T20:24:07 < Steffanx> I have a more important question: did you finish the picologger clone + desktop software yet?
2021-07-20T20:24:13 < Steffanx> ;)
2021-07-20T20:24:51 < jadew> :)
2021-07-20T20:25:10 < jpa-> Steffanx: now you are being mean and we will have to fire you
2021-07-20T20:25:59 < jadew> you know, I would have probably done that if I felt the slightest need for something like that, but it turns out I don't need it
2021-07-20T20:26:45 < jadew> when I needed to log temperature, I just used my DMM
2021-07-20T20:29:29 < bitmask> i just saw alpha particles!
2021-07-20T20:29:58 < jadew> pics or it didn't happen
2021-07-20T20:30:09 < jadew> did it knock on the glass too? :P
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2021-07-20T20:31:14 < jadew> what did it look like? had a straight trajectroy?
2021-07-20T20:31:21 < jadew> *trajectory
2021-07-20T20:31:48 < jadew> also, how did you know it was alpha - is that all it can detect?
2021-07-20T20:31:58 < bitmask> im not quite there yet, i need to get the vapor denser, it doesnt happen often enough, alpha particles are short and straight and thick
2021-07-20T20:32:12 < bitmask> it can detect protons and beta particles too
2021-07-20T20:32:25 < jadew> neat
2021-07-20T20:32:35 < bitmask> im not sure how to tell the difference between alpha and proton though, guess proton is just smaller
2021-07-20T20:32:53 < bitmask> its not sensitive enough at the moment to detect beta
2021-07-20T20:33:11 < jadew> what do you have that emits protons by themselves?
2021-07-20T20:33:31 < bitmask> i dont have anything, just saw it in a video
2021-07-20T20:34:05 < bitmask> I wish my americium was here, it may have gotten lost in the mail
2021-07-20T20:34:56 < jadew> buy a smoke detector
2021-07-20T20:35:44 < jadew> I didn't know protons can be emitted by themselves - got a link for that?
2021-07-20T20:36:29 < bitmask> why buy a whole smoke detector when i just want the am241 from it? thats where it came from originally
2021-07-20T20:36:45 < bitmask> but the guy is just selling the am241 from them
2021-07-20T20:37:36 < jadew> is what your building similar to what Pierre Curie made?
2021-07-20T20:38:26 < jadew> probably not, I think that one was mainly detecting electricity of some sort
2021-07-20T20:38:40 < bitmask> no idea 
2021-07-20T20:48:36 < bitmask> shit, i think i realized whats going on
2021-07-20T20:49:10 < bitmask> i need to seal the compartment because it looks like the air current from the radiator fans are sucking the vapor into the box
2021-07-20T20:49:27 < bitmask> so the vapor is moving around a lot
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2021-07-20T21:01:51 < bitmask> no idea how to caulk but lets give it a go
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2021-07-20T21:39:28 < bitmask> so much for having a nice looking cloud chamber :P
2021-07-20T21:40:32 < machinehum> My ex LL decided that it costed my entire damage deposit (1.2k CAD) + extra to fix some bent blinds, little sliding shit closet things and 2" of wood trim
2021-07-20T21:40:40 < machinehum> Just tore him a new asshole
2021-07-20T21:41:08 < bitmask> getting it back?
2021-07-20T21:41:22 < machinehum> Nah he's going to talk to the owner or some shit
2021-07-20T21:41:26 < bitmask> ahh
2021-07-20T21:41:33 < machinehum> He's like "you have to pay extra"
2021-07-20T21:41:39 < machinehum> Like fuck off dude that's not a thing
2021-07-20T21:43:00 < bitmask> hmm, i forgot that i meant to print a small piece of this outer shell first before printing the whole thing to make sure it fits, lets hope it fits...
2021-07-20T21:43:29 < bitmask> guess i'll know in 2.5 hours
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2021-07-20T22:21:34 < bitmask> damn
2021-07-20T22:21:45 < bitmask> fog is definitely denser although still moving, but i think its just not cold enough
2021-07-20T22:28:45 < kakium69> -27C you need
2021-07-20T22:30:39 < kakium69> your chamber aspect ratio is quite different from what I have seen
2021-07-20T22:32:11 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/uQC0PFZPhv0
2021-07-20T22:32:49 < bitmask> I think once i hit the temperature i'll be good
2021-07-20T22:33:07 < bitmask> might have to seal the chamber a little better but thats not a problem
2021-07-20T23:03:16 < bitmask> do be doobie doo
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2021-07-20T23:08:53 < kakium69> maybe a movie
2021-07-20T23:21:12 < bitmask> wtf, my calipers are breaking
2021-07-20T23:21:49 < bitmask> when i go over like 100mm the numbers start going crazy
2021-07-20T23:22:12 < bitmask> even going negative
2021-07-20T23:22:16 < kakium69> change battery
2021-07-20T23:22:24 < kakium69> it will fix it
2021-07-20T23:22:44 < kakium69> rake my word for it
2021-07-20T23:22:54 < kakium69> take?
2021-07-20T23:23:17 < bitmask> i just did change battery like a week ago
2021-07-20T23:23:23 < bitmask> nice try though
2021-07-20T23:23:26 < bitmask> your word means nothing!
2021-07-20T23:23:30 < kakium69> !
2021-07-20T23:23:47 < kakium69> then it's truly failing
2021-07-20T23:23:52 < kakium69> maybe clean it
2021-07-20T23:31:16 < bitmask> hmm, popped battery out and put back in, seems to be ok now
2021-07-20T23:33:10 < kakium69> look for any signs of corrosion
2021-07-20T23:33:23 < bitmask> dont see anything
2021-07-20T23:33:32 < bitmask> maybe the battery was just seated weird
2021-07-20T23:39:12 < bitmask> damnit, i gotta suck it up and just add a second peltier, this is gonna be a bitch
2021-07-20T23:41:09 < kakium69> stack?
2021-07-20T23:41:16 < bitmask> im just not sure my water cooler can handle two
2021-07-20T23:41:31 < bitmask> the peltier im using is stacked internally, im not sure i can stack more
2021-07-20T23:43:01 < bitmask> i guess testing the two peltiers side by side will be easy enough, i have a spare copper plate
2021-07-20T23:43:24 < kakium69> have you tested it in open air?
2021-07-20T23:43:31 < bitmask> tested what
2021-07-20T23:43:32 < kakium69> what surface temperature can be reached?
2021-07-20T23:43:41 < bitmask> the one peltier?
2021-07-20T23:43:44 < kakium69> with some sensor placed right at the surface
2021-07-20T23:43:44 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-20T23:43:57 < bitmask> i forget, i wanna say like -35
2021-07-20T23:55:29 < aandrew> ooh nice to know
2021-07-20T23:55:37 < aandrew> dig TXT +short o-o.myaddr.l.google.com @ns1.google.com
2021-07-20T23:55:43 < aandrew> get your public IP from the CLI
2021-07-20T23:57:00 < bitmask> cloud chamber break, gonna do some hydro dipping
--- Day changed Wed Jul 21 2021
2021-07-21T00:19:32 < bitmask> grrr, i cant find my elastic
2021-07-21T00:25:45 < Steffanx> Whats your favourite dip, bitmask ?
2021-07-21T00:27:01 < bitmask> 7 layer and shrimp
2021-07-21T00:52:49 < karlp> aandrew: curl whatsmyip.com too iirc
2021-07-21T00:53:08 < karlp> hrm, not quite...
2021-07-21T00:53:10  * karlp retries
2021-07-21T00:56:11 < karlp> dig myip.opendns.com @resolver1.opendns.com is robably a little easier 
2021-07-21T00:56:57 < karlp> wget -qO - icanhazip.com
2021-07-21T00:57:10 < aandrew> icanhazip hahaha
2021-07-21T00:57:14 < kakium69> 8celsius yaiks
2021-07-21T00:57:16 < karlp> curl icanhazip.com is even simpler
2021-07-21T00:57:37 < karlp> curl ipecho.net/plain too.
2021-07-21T01:01:21 < englishman> there was a blogpost by the icanhazip guy a short while ago
2021-07-21T01:01:47 < englishman> he had to hand over control because he couldn't handle the traffic. even with mostly donated services
2021-07-21T01:02:18 < englishman> https://major.io/2021/06/06/a-new-future-for-icanhazip/
2021-07-21T01:02:43 < englishman> I found it interesting.
2021-07-21T01:05:54 < kakium69> 35billion requests :o
2021-07-21T01:07:50 < kakium69> 2petabytes monthly
2021-07-21T01:08:19 < kakium69> of basically malware traffic
2021-07-21T01:08:42 < kakium69> just malware figuring out the public ip
2021-07-21T01:12:12 < aandrew> that's incredible
2021-07-21T01:13:36 < karlp> wow, thanks for that
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2021-07-21T01:49:57 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/VD2BE4p.jpg
2021-07-21T01:50:05 < bitmask> not bad but the other side is a bit worse
2021-07-21T01:52:05 < kakium69> what a weird piece
2021-07-21T01:52:11 < kakium69> looks like a moped gas tank
2021-07-21T01:52:16 < kakium69> but no
2021-07-21T01:52:28 < bitmask> its called a speed shape, its just a good shape to test designs on
2021-07-21T01:52:58 < kakium69> not sure if moped tank or some sort of ergonomic seat
2021-07-21T01:53:33 < kakium69> (un)ergonomic
2021-07-21T01:54:16 < kakium69> usually ergonomic means it's unergonomic
2021-07-21T01:54:29 < kakium69> applies to all things ergonomic
2021-07-21T01:57:20 < bitmask> trying to decide between that pattern and this one: https://i.imgur.com/Hd9mdhE.png?1
2021-07-21T01:57:42 < karlp> fucking. seek thermal app no longer saves pictures.  saves videos, but not pics.  worked at first, then I _think_ it got upset at nextcloud autouploading the pictures, and now it's just _not_ saving pics anymore.
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2021-07-21T02:24:03 < bitmask> grrr, gf's mom doesnt want me using chemicals in the house, didnt realize she was home
2021-07-21T02:24:14 < bitmask> why does this hydro film activator gotta be so smelly
2021-07-21T02:34:12 < karlp> ok, uninstall, delete dirs, restart phone, reinstall, all works again
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2021-07-21T02:39:05 < karlp> looks like this radiator is a bit busted, doesn't use the whole thing: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/BM4CBCBaTKc6y4c
2021-07-21T02:40:30 < kakium69> so slow
2021-07-21T02:41:11 < kakium69> me not wait for link to open
2021-07-21T02:43:15 < karlp> hrm, shouldn't be slow...
2021-07-21T02:43:19  * karlp checks...
2021-07-21T02:44:06 < kakium69> karlp: your radiator has air
2021-07-21T02:44:21 < kakium69> likelly
2021-07-21T02:44:52 < karlp> an orangepi in a plastic case, looking in the slot.  learning what's IR refelctive and what's not... https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/KQFYSMS9qQKb6Qn
2021-07-21T02:45:25 < kakium69> I have hard time believing anything else could block big radiator like that
2021-07-21T02:45:31 < kakium69> than air
2021-07-21T02:45:41 < karlp> like, standing in front of a glass door, and getting my reflection, rather than what's outside.... https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/ewDDorfYwGMjnSX
2021-07-21T02:53:53 < sauce> worth noting that glass is quite opaque to wavelengths past a couple um also
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2021-07-21T02:55:24 < karlp> that case on the oranepi is also transparent "plastic" but completely impervious.
2021-07-21T02:55:57 < karlp> I have another odroid running 24/7, so the case has warmed up to steady state, it's different, but that one was a fresh turn on of a cold device.
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2021-07-21T04:04:18 < machinehum> How would I bill an American client
2021-07-21T04:04:39 < machinehum> Just wire from their account into my Canadian account?
2021-07-21T04:04:49 < machinehum> And then somehow report that to the CRA?
2021-07-21T04:04:57 < machinehum> taxes...
2021-07-21T04:11:44 < englishman> yes
2021-07-21T04:11:59 < englishman> I suggest having a USD account
2021-07-21T04:12:20 < englishman> there are a couple accounting practices concerning how to deal with multiple currencies
2021-07-21T04:13:04 < englishman> depending on whether or not you want to hold those currencies
2021-07-21T04:13:14 < englishman> and how much data you want to process
2021-07-21T04:13:39 < englishman> I also suggest talking to a bean counter
2021-07-21T04:13:47 < englishman> they will make you a lot of money
2021-07-21T04:32:22 < jadew> machinehum, you issue an invoice and tell them where you want the money
2021-07-21T04:32:25 < jadew> that's it
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2021-07-21T05:22:29 < machinehum> coo
2021-07-21T05:22:42 < machinehum> I have an American account, but's it's a personal account
2021-07-21T05:22:57 < machinehum> I have a personal Canadian account, and Canadian buisness account
2021-07-21T05:23:25 < machinehum> Idk I just said zeele or whatever the fucking yankee etransfer is to personal or wire to my Canadian buisness
2021-07-21T05:23:30 < machinehum> First invoice out
2021-07-21T05:23:33 < machinehum> Might get paid
2021-07-21T05:23:36 < machinehum> Maybe
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2021-07-21T06:17:36 < jadew> machinehum, in here you cannot use your personal account for business purposes
2021-07-21T06:18:36 < jadew> you can only use accounts that are owned by the business, because they need to match what's in the books
2021-07-21T06:19:56 < jadew> why didn't you make a US account?
2021-07-21T07:07:50 < R2COM> what account?
2021-07-21T07:07:54 < R2COM> brazzers account?
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2021-07-21T10:22:21 < zyp> I have multiple currency accounts in my business accounting, shit's easy
2021-07-21T10:29:44 < zyp> every transaction in a foreign currency also get an associated NOK amount and any discrepancies between NOK and foreign balances can later be settled as capital gains or losses
2021-07-21T10:32:23 < zyp> e.g. if I sell something for 100 EUR = 990 NOK and later buy something for 100 EUR = 1010 NOK, the account will be sitting at 0 EUR / -20 NOK, and this is corrected by filing capital gains of 20 NOK
2021-07-21T10:37:19 < zyp> then again, it works the same way even when not having currency accounts
2021-07-21T10:39:38 < zyp> e.g. if I file an invoice for X USD, paid with my credit card at Y NOK, accounting system goes «X USD at ideal exchange rate for this date is Z NOK, difference between Y and Z are capital gains/losses»
2021-07-21T10:43:17 < zyp> accounting system handles most of the magic as long as I give it the right numbers to work with
2021-07-21T11:10:14 < tct> so $customer pays money to implement hardware JPEG decoder support
2021-07-21T11:10:24 < tct> then $customer pays money to implement their stuff
2021-07-21T11:10:33 < tct> then it turns out that they don't need JPEGs anywhere.
2021-07-21T11:10:47 < tct> :(
2021-07-21T11:11:48 < zyp> well, as long as they paid
2021-07-21T11:12:30 < tct> I don't care about money
2021-07-21T11:18:44 < ventyl> integrity is futile, we will waste your time
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2021-07-21T12:16:14 < jpa-> machinehum: transferwise has worked fine for me
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2021-07-21T14:12:45 < zyp> yeah, that's what I also use for foreign currency accounts
2021-07-21T14:19:20 < jpa-> i also have USD valued account at my local bank, but it sucks; for some reason they don't support doing anything with it on the web, and i have to do all transfers by contacting their customer service
2021-07-21T14:21:05 < ventyl> probably because the cobol shit, the bank runs does not support it
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2021-07-21T18:38:06 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/vH7ml7s
2021-07-21T18:39:35 < bitmask> its like twice as tall as it needs to be but oh well :P
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2021-07-21T19:11:03 < tct> am I looking at a herbs grinder?
2021-07-21T19:11:16 < tct> oh, there is a picture below the first one.
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2021-07-21T19:11:35 < tct> neat container
2021-07-21T19:14:18 < bitmask> thx, i need more radioactive stuff to fill it with 
2021-07-21T19:14:21 < machinehum> TBH this invoice is only for 500$ so I'm not super concerned, but if it's ever over 1G I'll do it all proper
2021-07-21T19:14:49 < machinehum> jpa-: Thanks I'll look into transferwise
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2021-07-21T19:17:08 < tct> bitmask, would there be any reason to worry about storing multiple different types of radioactive materials in the same container?
2021-07-21T19:17:23 < tct> bitmask, also, I take it that this container is utterly useless to contain gamma radiation?
2021-07-21T19:17:35 < tct> I'm just asking because I have little to no experience handling radioactive substances
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2021-07-21T19:22:44 < bitmask> i dont think mixing sources matters as long as you dont have a a lot of stuff that has radon in its decay chain.  I think lead can stop gamma rays depending on how thick the lead is and how much energy the rays have. my sources are pretty mild and i dont think the gamma ray production is very high or energetic. im not 100% sure on all this but i bought a cheap geiger counter which can detect beta  particles and gamma rays and i
2021-07-21T19:22:44 < bitmask>  just read background radiation levels when the container is closed
2021-07-21T19:25:04 < tct> alright
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2021-07-21T20:33:56 < bitmask> anyone know of a program that you can draw like cad  with real dimensions and print from there to make templates true to size? its annoying having to export a sketch in fusion360 as dxf and then loading that in something like inkscape
2021-07-21T20:52:50 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/PxlNL99.png    The selected (blue) part is the edge of a 80x40x2mm copper plate and under that is the water block for a closed loop cpu water cooler and on top are two 40x40mm peltiers. Think the 2mm thick copper plate is an okay size to pass on the heat from the peltiers to the water block?
2021-07-21T20:54:42 < tct> bitmask, freecad
2021-07-21T20:54:56 < bitmask> i'll try it, thanks
2021-07-21T21:01:13 < tct> bitmask, the learning curve is somewhat steep compared to premium/proprietary CAD solutions
2021-07-21T21:02:31 < bitmask> i just wanna be able to draw rectangles and circles mainly, just to create drill templates
2021-07-21T21:05:18 < ventyl> it seems that water block of CPU cooler covers almost all the surface of peltiers
2021-07-21T21:06:32 < ventyl> i would make the copper plate an union of peltier footprint and water block footprint, so it touches both of them at maximum possible surface. this way the transfer resistance will be minimal
2021-07-21T21:08:26 < bitmask> i see, i guess i was thinking that not all of the water block is actually useful since the part in contact with water is probably about the same size as 1 peltier, but i guess heat transfer of copper is good enough that its worth making the union as you say
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2021-07-21T21:08:59 < kakium69> hello 69'ers
2021-07-21T21:16:34 < jadew> kakium69, why not do that in inkscape directly?
2021-07-21T21:17:06 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-21T21:17:17 < jadew> you don't have constraints tho
2021-07-21T21:17:23 < kakium69> all you need is inkscape
2021-07-21T21:17:37 < jadew> oh, bitmask was asking
2021-07-21T21:17:39 < jadew> sorry
2021-07-21T21:17:41 < jadew> hehe
2021-07-21T21:18:36 < bitmask> inkscape is a pain, maybe its better in windows, i'll try on vm 
2021-07-21T21:18:57 < kakium69> no difference
2021-07-21T21:19:07 < jadew> I'm quite happy with it
2021-07-21T21:19:16 < jadew> but then again, I never used AI or any of the pro tools
2021-07-21T21:31:25 < qyx> bitmask: draftsight, qcad no good?
2021-07-21T21:31:56 < qyx> those are 2D though
2021-07-21T21:32:01 < bitmask> havent heard of em, i'll take a look thx
2021-07-21T21:32:06 < bitmask> 2d is perfect
2021-07-21T21:35:05 < kakium69> I have qcad pro
2021-07-21T21:35:10 < kakium69> it's the bestest
2021-07-21T21:35:44 < qyx> qcad trial is okish, like pro, annoying countdown tho
2021-07-21T21:35:55 < qyx> qcad free is like pro without dwg and some other stuff
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2021-07-21T22:01:40 < kakium69> qcad pro is little money
2021-07-21T22:02:00 < kakium69> for cad that is the most useful and easy to use
2021-07-21T22:02:42 < bitmask> i need my plate to get 5C colder, should I add a second TEC side by side of the same one, or should I get a lower power one and stack it?
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2021-07-22T02:41:45 < machinehum> Saw a grizzly while riding my bike today
2021-07-22T02:41:48 < machinehum> That was exciting
2021-07-22T02:43:30 < jadew> you finally figured out how fast your bike can go
2021-07-22T02:47:18 < machinehum> lol
2021-07-22T02:47:22 < machinehum> Was on the lift
2021-07-22T02:49:53 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/CmttecT
2021-07-22T02:49:59 < machinehum> If anyone is interested
2021-07-22T02:58:21 < jadew> shit... Miley Cyrus has a special voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn2wkAZDWs8
2021-07-22T02:58:41 < jadew> I think she's here to stay
2021-07-22T03:03:06 < jadew> reminds me of Marianne Faithfull
2021-07-22T03:03:35 < jadew> maybe Miley will come out with a jazz album too
2021-07-22T03:07:02 < jadew> lol man.. the titles these magazines come up with: "Marianne Faithfull preferred reading to having sex with Sir Mick Jagger"
2021-07-22T03:45:04 < Mangy_Dog> nearly finished this ui https://imgur.com/a/qhoWVEz
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2021-07-22T03:48:08 < bitmask>  i need my plate to get 5C colder, should I add a second TEC side by side of the same one, or should I get a lower power one and stack it?
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2021-07-22T07:28:18 < R2COM1> fuck this isp wtf
2021-07-22T07:28:28 < R2COM1> its like im living in shithole without internet
2021-07-22T07:28:33 < R2COM1> whats wrong with murica
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2021-07-22T07:31:45 < R2COM1> this jetbrains clion is a cool shit rite
2021-07-22T07:31:51 < R2COM1> just wondering
2021-07-22T07:32:06 < R2COM1> i got neovim w/autocomplete/checking working
2021-07-22T07:32:17 < R2COM1> but maybe this jetbrains worth trying
2021-07-22T07:32:37 < R2COM1> win only
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2021-07-22T09:07:41 < steve__> yo
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2021-07-22T09:34:08 < ventyl> R2COM: did you use language server? ccls specifically?
2021-07-22T09:34:59 < ventyl> it works fairly well, the only problem is, when I want it to use custom include paths. I wasn't able figure out, where it expects to find compile_commands.json
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2021-07-22T09:42:36 < jadew> stupid cable prices... I have to buy the absolute minimum and not screw up when I make the cables
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2021-07-22T10:11:03 < jadew> ffs... cheapest cable I found is $1/cm
2021-07-22T10:11:20 < jadew> $1.1 to be more precise and that's before tax
2021-07-22T10:11:30 < jadew> so... $1.3
2021-07-22T10:11:38 < ventyl> what kind of cable?
2021-07-22T10:11:51 < jadew> some not very common coaxial shit
2021-07-22T10:12:15 < jadew> I need about two meters :/
2021-07-22T10:25:45 < Streaker> the very expensive coax is typically for GHz frequencies and thus for very short runs
2021-07-22T10:26:11 < Streaker> so I wonder - what are you doing that requires two meters.
2021-07-22T10:26:35 < jadew> I'm rewiring a piece of test gear
2021-07-22T10:26:49 < jadew> and I hope it's just two meters
2021-07-22T10:26:57 < Streaker> oh so many short pieces totalling two meters
2021-07-22T10:27:02 < jadew> yeah
2021-07-22T10:30:11 < jadew> oh well, at least it's available
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2021-07-22T13:40:12 < jadew> https://youtu.be/_fEVHx-m_YA?t=143
2021-07-22T13:41:02 < jadew> pharmacy chain lost 160 shops in 48 hours...
2021-07-22T13:41:40 < jadew> I see food shortages ahead
2021-07-22T13:41:52 < jadew> nobody in their right mind is going to restock anytime soon
2021-07-22T13:43:05 < jadew> if they get police protection, then whoever is back in business first is bound to make a lot of money
2021-07-22T13:55:10 < ventyl> well, people are broke, but stuff I see they are looting are mostly large electric appliances... and these are not refrigerators
2021-07-22T13:56:06 < jadew> everyone knows that flat screen TVs have lots of calories
2021-07-22T13:57:31 < jadew> also, being broke is not an excuse to behave like that, that's how you stay broke
2021-07-22T13:57:35 < ventyl> first food I can see is... sugar water
2021-07-22T14:01:09 < ventyl> well, if you are broke your whole life, you don't have a clue about value of things. you have most probably never calculated value of supplies in terms of how long you have to work to be able to buy them
2021-07-22T14:01:25 < ventyl> which is part of their problem
2021-07-22T14:03:43 < jadew> it's also possible that they don't need those stores
2021-07-22T14:04:16 < jadew> perhaps they are self sufficient and the stores are just something extra they can do without, in which case it makes sense to loot them if there are no consequences
2021-07-22T14:04:27 < ventyl> that's definitely statement which will get tested in follwing days
2021-07-22T14:05:13 < ventyl> related to this, I am curious, how much is armed robbery prevalent in UK
2021-07-22T14:05:18 < ventyl> lolrence could know this
2021-07-22T14:05:51 < jadew> there are probably stats on that
2021-07-22T14:08:39 < ventyl> well, given the absolute intolerance of firearms in UK, the number shall be 0
2021-07-22T14:08:50 < ventyl> surprisingly, it isn't
2021-07-22T14:08:57 < ventyl> but numbers are blurred
2021-07-22T14:10:07 < ventyl> ok, there it is
2021-07-22T14:10:31 < ventyl> Possesion of weapons offense: 43831
2021-07-22T14:10:43 < ventyl> now, the question is, what is being considered a weapon in UK
2021-07-22T14:10:47 < ventyl> is screwdriver a weapon?
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2021-07-22T15:31:39 < englishman> aren't butter knives considered weapons in uk
2021-07-22T15:32:13 < englishman> pretty much anything can be, depending on the intent
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2021-07-22T16:04:47 < mawk> in france it's a different offense englishman 
2021-07-22T16:04:50 < mawk> weapon and weapon-by-intent
2021-07-22T16:04:57 < mawk> run over someone with your car = weapon by intent
2021-07-22T16:05:00 < mawk> shoot with a pistol = weapon
--- Log closed Thu Jul 22 16:18:09 2021
--- Log opened Thu Jul 22 16:18:17 2021
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2021-07-22T16:19:07 < jadew> "With the money Bezos spent on 11 minutes into space, he could have stayed a whole weekend at the Romanian sea side resorts."
2021-07-22T16:19:25 < MangyDog>  mini map scan zoom in and our pretty much done now. Just a couple of bigs to figure out and smooth off some transisions between stages https://imgur.com/gallery/DNingqC 
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2021-07-22T16:20:23 < jadew> MangyDog, is this part of your comic con costume?
2021-07-22T16:20:28 < MangyDog> lol
2021-07-22T16:20:32 < MangyDog> i dont go to comic con
2021-07-22T16:20:38 < MangyDog> but it is a prop toy thing
2021-07-22T16:21:02 < jadew> I would go as Data with that thing
2021-07-22T16:21:11 < MangyDog> :p
2021-07-22T16:21:25 -!- MangyDog is now known as Mangy_Dog
2021-07-22T16:21:43 < jadew> when you see a hot chick you can go like "complex life found, further investigation required!"
2021-07-22T16:21:50 < jadew> "Area of interest detected."
2021-07-22T16:21:58 < Mangy_Dog> lol
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2021-07-22T16:38:34 < ventyl> i have this -> https://imgur.com/OVl65Zx
2021-07-22T16:38:53 < ventyl> minimap certainly not implemented yet
2021-07-22T16:47:45 < jadew> I have this -> http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210722_164421_.jpg
2021-07-22T16:47:49 < jadew> maybe we can join forces
2021-07-22T16:50:02 < ventyl> sure thing
2021-07-22T16:50:22 < jadew> you can toggle it with "M"
2021-07-22T16:56:07 < tct> lol
2021-07-22T16:56:11 < jadew> did you press M?
2021-07-22T16:57:16 < jadew> ventyl, press M
2021-07-22T16:59:14 < ventyl> M
2021-07-22T16:59:19 < jadew> http://188.25.73.249/stuff/20210722_165424_.jpg
2021-07-22T17:00:40 < ventyl> :D
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2021-07-22T18:34:28 < englishman> how do i get a java applet to work in 2021?
2021-07-22T18:34:39 < englishman> looks like even firefox has deprecated npapi plugins?
2021-07-22T18:34:57 < englishman> it's a Keysight function generator webinterface :)
2021-07-22T18:42:50 < englishman> oh nice, html5 version with a firmware update. how nice of them
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2021-07-22T19:02:23 < Steffanx> Wrong channel Mangy_Dog 
2021-07-22T19:02:41 < Mangy_Dog> ?
2021-07-22T19:02:41 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-22T19:11:42 < mawk> ??
2021-07-22T19:11:42 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-22T19:11:46 < mawk> whose bot is that
2021-07-22T19:12:00 < mawk> who's czech here
2021-07-22T19:13:06 < PaulFertser> ?freedom
2021-07-22T19:13:07 < xnand> freedom is slavery
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2021-07-22T19:33:56 < Steffanx> You used old ##stm32 Mangy_Dog 
2021-07-22T19:35:07 < MrMobius> ##stm8?
2021-07-22T19:35:07 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-22T19:35:45 < specing> > 
2021-07-22T19:35:47 < specing> Highly active question. Earn 10 reputation (not counting the association bonus) in order to answer this question. The reputation requirement helps protect this question from spam and non-answer activity.
2021-07-22T19:36:00 < specing> Last poster posted in december of 2017
2021-07-22T19:36:02 < specing> lmao
2021-07-22T19:38:56 < Mangy_Dog> loll heh yeah
2021-07-22T19:39:02 < Mangy_Dog> i realised then posted here
2021-07-22T19:39:36 < specing> Where is laurencer?
2021-07-22T19:52:10 -!- ldisc [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2021-07-22T19:59:51 < Steffanx> B&
2021-07-22T20:01:29 < specing> this channel will never be the same without laurencer
2021-07-22T20:01:34 < specing> what will we do
2021-07-22T20:02:32 < englishman> improve
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2021-07-22T21:03:43 < Steffanx> You can be his replacement specing 
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2021-07-22T22:35:07 < PaulFertser> Found Steffanx's $job https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/microsoft-autonomous-beach-cleaning-robot/ . Who the hell leaves cigarette butts on the beach?! I thought only poorly educated russians do that.
2021-07-22T22:36:12 < zyp> if you're dumb enough to smoke, you're probably not far off from dumb enough to litter
2021-07-22T22:36:47 < aandrew> PaulFertser: there are boorish people everywhere in the world
2021-07-22T22:37:41  * karlp actually _wishes_ people still threw out butts. so much more pleasant to pick up than the janky nicotine pouches that are all the rage here now.
2021-07-22T22:38:00 < zyp> haha
2021-07-22T22:38:29 < PaulFertser> wtf are nicotine pouches?
2021-07-22T22:38:34 < zyp> snus
2021-07-22T22:38:48 < zyp> or whatever it's called in other languages
2021-07-22T22:39:24 < zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus
2021-07-22T22:39:43 < PaulFertser> Some people here consume naswar
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2021-07-22T22:40:18 < aandrew> wtf is that like dip but fancier?
2021-07-22T22:40:39 < zyp> not sure what dip is
2021-07-22T22:40:42 < karlp> zyp: it's actually these here now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_pouch
2021-07-22T22:40:46 < karlp> ie, nicotine, but no tobacco
2021-07-22T22:40:50 < aandrew> zyp: basically snus but without the fucking tea bags
2021-07-22T22:41:05 < zyp> snus comes without bags too
2021-07-22T22:41:06 < karlp> (this actually gets around EU wide bans apparently, and nice white "clean" instead of "brown dirty"
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2021-07-22T22:41:32 < zyp> heh
2021-07-22T22:41:48 < zyp> does it stink like snus?
2021-07-22T22:42:24 < karlp> no idea, 
2021-07-22T22:42:35 < karlp> probably depends which flavour of "alpine mint" or equally trash you picked
2021-07-22T22:42:54 < karlp> but they stay wet and janky on playgounds way more than a igarette butt does.
2021-07-22T22:43:20 < karlp> we have a chain opened up wiht ~5 dedicated shops to this shit now, all openeed in the lsat 18months
2021-07-22T22:43:20 < aandrew> yeah I can see that being more gross than cigarette butts
2021-07-22T22:43:33 < zyp> haha
2021-07-22T22:43:59 < karlp> we're having problems with them skirting advertising laws too.
2021-07-22T22:44:07 < karlp> skanky janky cuntish bullshit products.
2021-07-22T22:44:31 < karlp> vaping seems to be on the way out agian though, in general.
2021-07-22T22:45:25 < PaulFertser> Do you really have enough morons to not only use those pouches but also to spit them out at random places rather than a trash can? :(
2021-07-22T22:46:21 < karlp> of course, like aandrew said, morons are a global species, not restricted to russia :)
2021-07-22T22:48:05 < PaulFertser> I think they mostly follow what's customary in a certain area, so if you somehow made it common to not litter then even morons would mostly refrain.
2021-07-22T22:48:49 < qyx> I though icelanders are one of the bestest beople
2021-07-22T22:49:25 < aandrew> PaulFertser: no that is not what I see at all
2021-07-22T22:50:00 < aandrew> MOST people are actually decent and will hold on to trash to throw out in a proper place, but there is some base level of fuckwit 
2021-07-22T22:50:12 < PaulFertser> btw, of all civilised places I had an opportunity to visit, the Israel was the dirtiest :(
2021-07-22T22:50:42 < aandrew> I didn't notice that israel was particularly dirty, but it is kind of desolate in general
2021-07-22T22:50:53 < aandrew> lots of concrete and sand and very little vegetation
2021-07-22T22:51:06 < PaulFertser> There's plenty of litter on city and town streets. Unlike what I saw in e.g. Germany.
2021-07-22T22:51:23 < qyx> offtopic, to gain another 10 bits of range I need a 1000x amp, that is 60 dB, does I?
2021-07-22T22:52:11 < aandrew> *another* ten bits? 
2021-07-22T22:52:31 < qyx> log2(max(x) - min(x)) is 14 bits now
2021-07-22T22:52:34 < aandrew> that must be some insanely small signal already if you've lost over ten bits
2021-07-22T22:52:51 < qyx> FSR is 24 bits
2021-07-22T22:52:55 < qyx> so yeah
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2021-07-22T23:14:03 < kakium69> emergency69!
2021-07-22T23:14:10 < kakium69> need movies now
2021-07-22T23:14:28 < kakium69> I'm at friends house we have movie night
2021-07-22T23:14:51 < kakium69> but I forgot to do my homework of picking movie for us
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--- Day changed Fri Jul 23 2021
2021-07-23T00:08:32 < machinehum> Just watch teeth
2021-07-23T00:14:31 < Steffanx> Watch porn.
2021-07-23T00:14:57 < zyp> try lemon stealing whores, it's a classic
2021-07-23T00:32:45 < kakium69> okay we watched it
2021-07-23T00:32:53 < kakium69> very nice
2021-07-23T00:34:36 < kakium69> we innovated startup innovation worth 1B with friend now
2021-07-23T00:35:34 < kakium69> I think we start company now
2021-07-23T00:39:52 < zyp> are you gonna start a lemon plantation now?
2021-07-23T00:39:56 < kakium69> I have a mockup device attached to my peepee already
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2021-07-23T03:38:53 < machinehum> hi
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2021-07-23T12:12:42 < tct> STM32H7 are pretty fancy chips mate
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2021-07-23T12:26:33 < jpa-> and pretty complex also
2021-07-23T12:27:21 < jpa-> i just wish they hadn't messed up HRTIM, or at least would document the conditions when it will work to full spec instead of just saying "this is our high-resolution timer, except the high resolution part doesn't work"
2021-07-23T12:30:52 < qyx> good to know
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2021-07-23T12:51:08 < ventyl> it takes longer to compile 7zip, than to compile valgrind
2021-07-23T13:13:40 < tct> jpa-, can you elaborate?
2021-07-23T13:15:09 < jpa-> tct: on STM32F3, HRTIM can go to 4 GHz; on STM32H7 it can go to 6 GHz according to some people on forums who have tested, but it is only specced to 480 MHz (the cpu frequency)
2021-07-23T13:15:40 < jpa-> and the register specifications are similar to what F3 datasheet has, but H7 datasheet just shows the higher speeds as "reserved"
2021-07-23T13:15:57 < jpa-> so apparently there is some problem with it, but ST does not tell what problem
2021-07-23T13:16:35 < tct> jpa-, ah, but they also don't say that it works in the higher speeds then and clearly indicate the registers as "reserved" so from a user point of view it's not that bad, or am I missing something?
2021-07-23T13:17:23 < jpa-> yeah, just annoying lack of capabilities
2021-07-23T13:17:55 < jpa-> not really that "clear" indication either, as one might expect a peripheral called HRTIM to actually have the high-resolution functionality without checking the register specs in detail
2021-07-23T13:18:26 < tct> true
2021-07-23T13:18:32 < tct> at least it has an MDMA controller :p
2021-07-23T13:18:38 < tct> notify mawk
2021-07-23T13:19:57 < jpa-> yeah, but MDMA is also annoying because it takes a 32 clock cycle pause between blocks to reload the next descriptor
2021-07-23T13:20:34 < tct> didn't look into it yet. Just saw "MDMA Introduction" in the ToC of the RM when starting to prepare for some worky-work
2021-07-23T13:20:39 < jpa-> which limits the use of scatter-gather DMA to peripherals that are either slow or have internal FIFO
2021-07-23T13:21:46 < jpa-> (one can workaround that by using DMA1 or DMA2 as a FIFO for the other peripherals, but that is so crazy stuff that they must have been on MDMA when coming up with that)
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2021-07-23T13:44:22 < tct> it's gonna be interesting
2021-07-23T13:44:28 < tct> lots of multi-channel audio streaming going on here
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2021-07-23T14:10:50 < zyp> the bad parts of getting FPGA experience is that such restrictions seems silly when going back to microcontrollers
2021-07-23T14:12:11 < zyp> I hope we'll see more efpga stuff eventually
2021-07-23T14:15:11 < ventyl> in retrospective, automotive renesas parts used to be according to spec
2021-07-23T14:15:22 < ventyl> and those, who usually fucked up were HAL providers
2021-07-23T16:07:59 < jpa-> ST parts conform pretty well to spec, it's just that specs are silly sometimes
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2021-07-23T21:38:50 < qyx> industrial pros, have you even seen *shielded* M8 sensor cables?
2021-07-23T21:41:56 < zyp> like this? https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us/?uri=pxc-oc-itemdetail:pid=1521630&library=usen&pcck=P-18-01-01&tab=1&selectedCategory=ALL
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2021-07-23T21:49:54 < qyx> exactly
2021-07-23T21:50:37 < zyp> yw
2021-07-23T21:52:53 < qyx> but meh, because they don't have version with connectors on both ends
2021-07-23T21:53:52 < zyp> which connectors do you need?
2021-07-23T21:54:38 < zyp> male/female? https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us/?uri=pxc-oc-itemdetail:pid=1455285&library=usen&pcck=P-18-01-01&tab=1&selectedCategory=ALL
2021-07-23T21:56:03 < qyx> found it https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us/?uri=pxc-oc-itemdetail:pid=1455722&library=usen&pcck=P-18-01-01&tab=1&selectedCategory=ALL
2021-07-23T21:56:12 < qyx> wtf their search doesn't work
2021-07-23T21:56:22 < zyp> works for me
2021-07-23T21:56:34 < qyx> I used it and didn§t find anything
2021-07-23T22:01:43 < qyx> https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us/?uri=pxc-oc-itemdetail:pid=1543359&library=usen&pcck=P-10-01-01&tab=1&selectedCategory=ALL
2021-07-23T22:01:49 < qyx> oh INTERBUS is the key
2021-07-23T22:02:29 < qyx> %$^&% 60 € for a 2 m cable
2021-07-23T22:04:08 < zyp> haha, yeah, they're not cheap
2021-07-23T22:04:24 < t4nk_freenode> gotta support honest local business though
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2021-07-23T22:51:39 < qyx> but not 60
2021-07-23T22:52:10 < qyx> degson m12 cables are about 10e
--- Day changed Sat Jul 24 2021
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2021-07-24T00:20:54 < GenTooMan> finding any honest business these days is miraculous to be fair.
2021-07-24T00:30:04 < kakium69> sounds like an oxymoron anyhow
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2021-07-24T01:52:38 < GenTooMan> not really it's just rare because people have bought into money is more important than anything. Sure it's important but peoples lives? no
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2021-07-24T03:32:20 < Mangy_Dog> https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/the-unused-voyager-tricorder-v2.334172/page-3#post-5217024
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2021-07-24T09:39:42 < R2COM> oh man no matter what you do, doing some graphics related programming on unix system is still not well supported at all nowadays
2021-07-24T09:43:26 < ventyl> what exactly is "graphics related programming" ?
2021-07-24T09:44:39 -!- pjb [~pjb@user/pjb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-07-24T09:46:18 < R2COM> i tried running some Vulkan diagnostic app (as starting point before building basic app) and already had problems in freebsd
2021-07-24T09:46:30 < R2COM> even though Nvidia latest driver was successfully installed
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2021-07-24T09:50:42 < ventyl> i would take a combo of nvidia + unix + problems as granted
2021-07-24T09:51:06 < Xogium> I was just about to say that
2021-07-24T09:51:32 < R2COM> what is your suggestion then
2021-07-24T09:51:37 < Xogium> or well it would be more like nvidia+unix = problems
2021-07-24T09:51:44 < ventyl> put it into trashcan and use radeon
2021-07-24T09:51:52 < ventyl> or even iGPU from intel probably
2021-07-24T09:52:03 < R2COM> i owe this rtx2080 since 2019, not going to throw it away.. 
2021-07-24T09:53:29 < ventyl> my experience with nvidia binary driver is, that it is shit
2021-07-24T09:53:47 < ventyl> sure, performance and feature support is better than noveau, which is almost dead
2021-07-24T09:53:49 -!- pjb [~pjb@user/pjb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-07-24T09:54:12 < Xogium> yep, penty of random freezes, crashes, fans going off at full speed all the time and you don't know why
2021-07-24T09:54:24 < Xogium> *plenty
2021-07-24T09:54:25 < ventyl> but IIRC, they haven't officially supported Unix + UEFI for years, maybe decade since it became a commonplace
2021-07-24T09:54:34 < ventyl> I don't know if they even officially support it now
2021-07-24T09:54:52 < Xogium> they don't, yep. And that's also why Linus told them 'fuck you nvidia'
2021-07-24T09:55:05 < R2COM> firstly, none of problems mentioned above i observed in win10
2021-07-24T09:55:22 < ventyl> like, it works, but no official support for it
2021-07-24T09:55:24 < R2COM> secondly, Linus is a retard who failed to make usable OS
2021-07-24T09:55:35 < Xogium> well of course not ! What do you think ? Nvidia cares about windows
2021-07-24T09:55:54 < Xogium> as for Linus, he doesn't make OS
2021-07-24T09:56:18 < R2COM> yes, he made kernel i kno rite?
2021-07-24T09:56:36 < R2COM> the os made by some other dudes who cant communicate properly with each other
2021-07-24T09:56:50 < R2COM> and made diarhea of 100000 of linux os distros
2021-07-24T09:56:52 < R2COM> anyway
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2021-07-24T09:57:03 < Xogium> well, whatever
2021-07-24T09:57:08 < R2COM> what im saying is... its problematic, not even in unix
2021-07-24T09:57:15 < Xogium> nvidia doesn't care about linux or unix, end of story
2021-07-24T09:57:17 < R2COM> but in linux threads i see same problems here and there
2021-07-24T09:57:20 < Xogium> there's nothing to be done
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2021-07-24T10:00:28 < R2COM> if radeon gets better in future ill buy it
2021-07-24T10:00:33 < ventyl> as if there wasn't a diarrhea of bsd distributions, each having it's own kernel and development model
2021-07-24T10:00:45 < R2COM> how many bsd distros can you name?
2021-07-24T10:00:47 < R2COM> quantity?
2021-07-24T10:00:57 < ventyl> i could probably find about 20
2021-07-24T10:01:06 -!- pjb [~pjb@user/pjb] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-24T10:01:13 < R2COM> could...probably... probably not
2021-07-24T10:01:15 < R2COM> <10
2021-07-24T10:01:20 < R2COM> is more real
2021-07-24T10:01:28 < R2COM> and now.... ----> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution#/media/File:Linux_Distribution_Timeline_Dec._2020.svg
2021-07-24T10:01:34 < R2COM> how is that?
2021-07-24T10:01:43 < ventyl> how does that even matter?
2021-07-24T10:01:56 < R2COM> that is what idiotic linux community with a degenerate linus was busy with
2021-07-24T10:02:03 < R2COM> building shit distro one looking to another
2021-07-24T10:02:32 < ventyl> after all it boild down to debian and derivates, redhat and derivates, arch and derivates and slackware and derivates
2021-07-24T10:02:51 < Xogium> can you even stop trolling for 5 minutes ?
2021-07-24T10:03:08 < R2COM> im not trolling
2021-07-24T10:03:12 < Xogium> yes you are
2021-07-24T10:03:20 < ventyl> maybe he is just regular prick
2021-07-24T10:03:23 < Steffanx> Hes not trolling. Hes serious. Xogium 
2021-07-24T10:03:43 < R2COM> see, Steffanx knows
2021-07-24T10:03:51  * Xogium shrugs
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2021-07-24T10:03:54 < Steffanx> Yeah, and best is just to move on :P
2021-07-24T10:04:08 < Steffanx> Not like THAT, lol
2021-07-24T10:04:11 < ventyl> the thing is: it is here, it lives and your bitching can do nothing about it. most probably nobody cares about it
2021-07-24T10:04:50 < R2COM> i just wanted to run some experiments with some graphics lib
2021-07-24T10:04:59 < ventyl> and you failed lol :)
2021-07-24T10:05:21 < R2COM> so i downloaded the lib, and compiled it, then mated it with dx12 under MSVC in win10 and ran the graph window
2021-07-24T10:05:26 < R2COM> which means, i can now move on 
2021-07-24T10:05:27 < R2COM> then
2021-07-24T10:05:37 < R2COM> i decided to kinda replicate this, but on unix, with vulkan
2021-07-24T10:05:41 < R2COM> on same PC with nvidia
2021-07-24T10:05:50 < R2COM> and I failed there, yes
2021-07-24T10:06:09 < ventyl> and you never heard of fishy nvidia approach to unix before, right?
2021-07-24T10:06:28 < R2COM> so even though nvidia driver installed OK and works, vulkan is still not functioning, even its diagnostic app gives errors
2021-07-24T10:06:35 < R2COM> and not much sources to get help from
2021-07-24T10:06:37 -!- pjb [~pjb@user/pjb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-07-24T10:07:29 < ventyl> and now, please tell me how Unix can be responsible for non-working Vulkan, if Vulkan is as close to the metal as possible while retaining some abstraction?
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2021-07-24T10:07:38 < R2COM> so what im trying to point out is, from the technical point of view Nvidia card performs very well
2021-07-24T10:07:42 < ventyl> so probably all of the code related to your use case is provided by nvidia?
2021-07-24T10:07:45 < R2COM> and i see no issues on win10
2021-07-24T10:07:58 < R2COM> im not saying its responsible
2021-07-24T10:08:23 < R2COM> i just said: "no matter what you do, doing some graphics related programming on unix system is still not well supported at all nowadays"
2021-07-24T10:08:26 < R2COM> makes sense?
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2021-07-24T10:09:10 < R2COM> so nvidia made driver for Vulkan
2021-07-24T10:09:15 < R2COM> its latest driver supports vulkan
2021-07-24T10:09:23 < R2COM> and I managed to get it installed on system in unix
2021-07-24T10:09:26 < ventyl> well, drawing conclusions from single case...
2021-07-24T10:09:37 < R2COM> but still cant run basic vulkan app (or even diagnostics)
2021-07-24T10:09:42 < ventyl> does it support Vulkan *officially* ?
2021-07-24T10:09:49 < R2COM> yes
2021-07-24T10:09:55 < ventyl> because, it does support UEFI, just not *officially*
2021-07-24T10:10:32 < R2COM> https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/171982/en-us
2021-07-24T10:11:07 < ventyl> so, i have a laptop, where nvidia graphics works in UEFI mode on mac and windows, it works in legacy mode in linux, but fails to find any display output on linux in UEFI mode
2021-07-24T10:11:23 < ventyl> even is other people with same graphics and same nvidia drivers are able to use it in UEFI on linux
2021-07-24T10:12:23 < ventyl> nvidia responded that UEFI was never officially suppported, so this can't be a bug
2021-07-24T10:13:18 < R2COM> anyway
2021-07-24T10:14:03 < R2COM> so i setup some stuff to work on unix, but... I am not sure how practical it would really be
2021-07-24T10:14:25 < R2COM> but that might be fine, however... high end graphics stuff etc
2021-07-24T10:14:34 < R2COM> definitely not working smooth there
2021-07-24T10:14:55 < R2COM> not sure how it would be with radeon and its open source drivers
2021-07-24T10:14:56 < R2COM> havent tried
2021-07-24T10:14:58 < R2COM> maybe better
2021-07-24T10:15:29 < R2COM> i didnt buy radeon yet cuz i still think they are a bit inferior to nvidia
2021-07-24T10:15:36 < R2COM> at least in 4k performance for sure
2021-07-24T10:15:47 < ventyl> i think that this is not true with latest generation or two
2021-07-24T10:15:55 -!- pjb [~pjb@user/pjb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
2021-07-24T10:16:00 < ventyl> and they are on par or maybe radeon being a bit better
2021-07-24T10:16:21 < ventyl> unless you fall for nvidia marketing in that you **need** raytracing
2021-07-24T10:16:22 < R2COM> im saying that latest gen still lags from nvidia in 4k performance, 
2021-07-24T10:16:34 < R2COM> by small margin though
2021-07-24T10:16:50 < ventyl> like, you have 85 vs. 80 fps? :)
2021-07-24T10:16:57 < ventyl> anything above 60 is unimportant
2021-07-24T10:17:14 < R2COM> depends for what
2021-07-24T10:17:29 < R2COM> for competetive shooting games or space flying sims it IS important
2021-07-24T10:17:40 < R2COM> i can feel difference between 60 and 85
2021-07-24T10:18:07 < ventyl> well, good luck then
2021-07-24T10:18:08 < R2COM> you can feel it especially in VR experience
2021-07-24T10:18:28 < ventyl> well VR is different, there it is known that you need high framerate at or above 60
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2021-07-24T10:18:49 < R2COM> i have valve index vr
2021-07-24T10:19:14 < ventyl> i would say, that latency and it's consistency is more important than actual framerate
2021-07-24T10:20:07 < R2COM> https://github.com/ocornut/imgui
2021-07-24T10:20:12 < R2COM> and this is what i was trying
2021-07-24T10:20:23 < R2COM> and works perfectly in win10 with dx12
2021-07-24T10:21:23 < R2COM> so fuckit ill setup stuff i need in win10
2021-07-24T10:21:53 < R2COM> win10 rocks basically
2021-07-24T10:22:04 < R2COM> just wish it gave freedom to install own window manager
2021-07-24T10:22:10 < ventyl> so it fails with freebsd / vulkan combo only?
2021-07-24T10:22:11 < R2COM> tiling 
2021-07-24T10:22:16 < R2COM> yes
2021-07-24T10:22:27 < ventyl> and works with opengl/es ?
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2021-07-24T10:22:39 < R2COM> i didnt try opengl backend
2021-07-24T10:22:41 < R2COM> and dont want to
2021-07-24T10:22:46 < R2COM> the whole purpose was vulkan
2021-07-24T10:22:56 < R2COM> i dont want to deal with opengl
2021-07-24T10:23:13 < ventyl> well, the matter is, that given the close to the metal nature of vulkan, maybe you stumbled upon a bug in the library
2021-07-24T10:23:26 < ventyl> try win10 / vulkan combo then
2021-07-24T10:24:08 < R2COM> its not going to give me any info in terms of troubleshooting issue on freebsd+vulkan
2021-07-24T10:24:17 < R2COM> and using vulkan on win10 makes no sense
2021-07-24T10:24:39 < R2COM> what i was saying that  "vulkaninfo" failed even
2021-07-24T10:24:51 < R2COM> its basically program you run to "check helalth" of your vulkan tools
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2021-07-24T10:25:03 < R2COM> so vulkan is not working on freebsd+nvidia
2021-07-24T10:25:06 < R2COM> is a base problem
2021-07-24T10:26:10 < ventyl> ok then
2021-07-24T10:27:06 < R2COM> theres not much community motivation for this bugs to be investigated and pushed through
2021-07-24T10:28:13 < ventyl> that's a closed circle powered by comfort. people won't investigate it, because they want to be comfortable, companies don't want to invest money into support, because there is not enough users for the investment to pay off
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2021-07-24T10:29:30 < ventyl> two decades ago people were like: I put this heavilly unsupported setup together and made <put whatever kind of unix here> running on it. I can't get my video on, but oh man, I can telnet google on it
2021-07-24T10:30:13 < ventyl> nowaday people are like: OMG Gimp is so shit, I can't do <put whatever Photoshop feature, you'll never use here> with it so I won't use it at all
2021-07-24T10:31:23 < R2COM> two decades ago: linux is unsupported pain in the ass
2021-07-24T10:31:30 < R2COM> 2021: linux is unsupported pain in the ass
2021-07-24T10:33:14 < R2COM> in terms of desktop
2021-07-24T10:34:20 < R2COM> the only thing linus got right is GIT i guess 
2021-07-24T10:34:20 < ventyl> hm, actually, last week I installed linux on random newly bought machine
2021-07-24T10:34:48 < ventyl> I haven't checked HW compatibility specifically with linux except of graphics card, where the only rule was that it must not be nvidia
2021-07-24T10:35:25 < R2COM> there snothing else other than GPU and sound
2021-07-24T10:35:30 < ventyl> i installed linux on it like partition disk, next, next, next, type in hostname, next, next, all, next, next, type in root password, next, next, yes, next, next, reboot
2021-07-24T10:35:56 < R2COM> yeah , some shitty PC with standard peripherals
2021-07-24T10:36:10 < R2COM> Linux does not support ANY of my peripherals
2021-07-24T10:36:24 < R2COM> like my sound card (theres driver but it works like shit... it chirps etc... lol)
2021-07-24T10:36:27 < ventyl> IDK how standard peripheral is determined
2021-07-24T10:36:50 < R2COM> my logitech keyboard, moouse, gamepad, joystick, valve index, AE-7 soundcard
2021-07-24T10:37:03 < R2COM> its all cool and expencive hardware
2021-07-24T10:37:43 < ventyl> hm, the mobo is gamerz stuff
2021-07-24T10:38:04 < ventyl> keyboard ditto, rest is mostly picked up out of trashcan
2021-07-24T10:38:16 < ventyl> especially GPU, I am not willing to pay today prices even for 2nd hand cards
2021-07-24T10:38:22 < R2COM> trash OS for trashcan PCs, agree
2021-07-24T10:39:27 < R2COM> i have nothing against unix (or proper successor, freebsd) but just saying that its not that desktopish
2021-07-24T10:39:52 < R2COM> and linux is just a unix ripoff made by some dick
2021-07-24T10:39:56 < ventyl> well, I can't find any substantial difference between Win10 and Linux in desktop experience
2021-07-24T10:40:05 < ventyl> all the comfort stuff just works the same for me
2021-07-24T10:40:27 < ventyl> sometimes linux is even more consistent than windows
2021-07-24T10:40:31 < R2COM> it doesnt work for some expecnive peripherals
2021-07-24T10:40:53 < R2COM> im not talking about your shitty $20 kb/mouse setup
2021-07-24T10:41:01 < R2COM> or builtin garbage sound card
2021-07-24T10:41:30 < ventyl> oh, well
2021-07-24T10:41:47 < ventyl> i'll donate you my audiophile, good luck making it work with windows :)
2021-07-24T10:42:11 < R2COM> what audiophile?
2021-07-24T10:42:20 < ventyl> original audiophile usb
2021-07-24T10:42:26 < R2COM> what is that
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2021-07-24T10:42:29 < srk> lol R2COM
2021-07-24T10:42:51 < srk> better start buying some quality hardware
2021-07-24T10:42:53 < ventyl> it can be made working, just the situation will be the opposite
2021-07-24T10:43:02 < R2COM> btw where is dongs? that nigger is gone or what
2021-07-24T10:43:05 < ventyl> in linux it just works, in windows you have to frankenstein the driver
2021-07-24T10:43:32 < R2COM> wtf hardware you talking about
2021-07-24T10:43:36 < R2COM> what is that shit?
2021-07-24T10:44:17 < R2COM> I have SoundBlaster AE-7 + Audio Technica headphones, is it not pro enough?
2021-07-24T10:44:17 < ventyl> m-audio audiophile
2021-07-24T10:44:27 < srk> sb surely is pro :D
2021-07-24T10:44:38 < ventyl> it used to be used for music recording
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2021-07-24T10:45:32 < srk> focusrite hw works out of box, except you can't configure some features that need their special app (like direct audio routing)
2021-07-24T10:46:03 < R2COM> https://www.ebay.com/itm/224486316531?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=224486316531&targetid=1263433205014&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9030101&poi=&campaignid=13917593254&mkgroupid=128459921161&rlsatarget=pla-1263433205014&abcId=9300613&merchantid=112164645&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9O6HBhCrARIsADx5qCRQmAHEYbNbOQTFu3KS_ADMq4lIkXMqX2FUbquPOdNszD4A8zJ8-5QaAhjLEALw_wcB
2021-07-24T10:46:08 < R2COM> is that the shit yo utalking about?>
2021-07-24T10:46:44 < ventyl> usb version of it
2021-07-24T10:47:23 < R2COM> that looks like some old ass stupid shit
2021-07-24T10:47:44 < ventyl> well, it is old, but well built with quality and wide ADC/DAC
2021-07-24T10:47:47 < srk> how do you get pci when you only have usb or pcie?
2021-07-24T10:48:08 < ventyl> thus can still outperform many "pro" cards of newer builds
2021-07-24T10:48:30 < R2COM> what exactly DAC
2021-07-24T10:48:49 < srk> I would gladly buy pro PCI iface instead of new expensive usb ones :P
2021-07-24T10:49:01 < R2COM> Creative Sound Blaster AE-7 
2021-07-24T10:49:03 < R2COM> $218
2021-07-24T10:49:20 < R2COM> 27 dB DNR hi-res 32-bit / 384 kHz playback via ESS SABRE-class 9018 DAC
2021-07-24T10:49:39 < R2COM> audio-technical headphones are like >$250
2021-07-24T10:49:51 < ventyl> R2COM: dunno, if you are interested, find the spec yourself
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2021-07-24T10:50:14 < R2COM> so wait wait... you just been bragging about quality of the shit you listed and dont know specs?
2021-07-24T10:50:34 < R2COM> but you mentioned it as some cool ass HW which runs on your lunix and not working OK on windows
2021-07-24T10:50:45 < ventyl> i forgot which specific DAC is used. I know that upper limit is like 24 bit at 192 kHz stereo
2021-07-24T10:51:00 < R2COM> AE-7 is 32bit 384khz
2021-07-24T10:51:03 < ventyl> actual limitation is USB, so if you want to use multiple inputs / outputs at the same time, you have to downrate it
2021-07-24T10:51:13 < R2COM> lol
2021-07-24T10:51:20 < R2COM> you just described shitty designed piece of HW
2021-07-24T10:51:34 < R2COM> no wonder its not working on windows cuz its shit on its own
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2021-07-24T10:51:39 < ventyl> it is from USB 1 era, USB 2 didn't exist back when this was designed
2021-07-24T10:52:12 < R2COM> yeah so win10 not going to support that shit
2021-07-24T10:52:22 < R2COM> i mean, manufacturers didnt write drivers either
2021-07-24T10:52:38 < R2COM> so what im saying is, all latest HW comes with proper win10 support
2021-07-24T10:53:09 < R2COM> uh
2021-07-24T10:53:13 < R2COM> its late im going to sleep
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2021-07-24T11:20:50 < Steffanx> I finally know what you have been up to tct 
2021-07-24T11:20:57 < Steffanx> Music time https://youtu.be/NMZLKwa4_aI
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2021-07-24T11:30:18 < zyp> jpa-, do you happen to know of any cortex-m that supports data trace via ETM, not just program trace?
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2021-07-24T11:43:04 < jpa-> zyp: no, i don't
2021-07-24T11:50:04 < qyx>  oh r2com, must have been juicy chats
2021-07-24T12:16:43 < tct> Steffanx, ok
2021-07-24T12:17:02 < Steffanx> Lol. So cheerful
2021-07-24T12:19:43 < Steffanx> Sup mr tct
2021-07-24T12:19:52 < tct> meh
2021-07-24T12:19:53 < tct> there?
2021-07-24T12:20:45 < Steffanx> Same
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2021-07-24T15:07:59 < MrMobius> how many flash banks do the f0 parts have?
2021-07-24T15:34:01 < kakium69> I have had no problems
2021-07-24T15:34:23 < kakium69> ah I was in backlogs about nvidia+lunix
2021-07-24T15:34:39 < kakium69> nvm
2021-07-24T15:37:16 < Steffanx> But commie uses freebsd. 
2021-07-24T15:38:04 < ventyl> salted by fair amount of selfishism
2021-07-24T15:40:01 < Steffanx> MrMobius:  I would say 1. But I'm not sure if there happens to be some dual bank one (i recall there isn't one)
2021-07-24T15:40:39 < Steffanx> I would almost say Narcissism, ventyl 
2021-07-24T15:42:35 < ventyl> well, whatever
2021-07-24T15:55:50 < Steffanx> Hah
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2021-07-24T18:15:52 < bitmask> oh copper, how i hate you
2021-07-24T18:31:06 < jpa-> coppy, copper, coppest
2021-07-24T18:31:24 < R2COM> anyone used jetbrains clion
2021-07-24T18:35:07 < R2COM> i wonder if that "scoop" thingy for win10 is good
2021-07-24T18:45:37 < bitmask> ugh, my hand hurts
2021-07-24T18:45:38 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/YNGt0R3.png
2021-07-24T18:46:47 < pjb> bitmask: copper, it's one of the most likeable metal.  Only Silver and Gold may surpass it. 
2021-07-24T18:47:32 < bitmask> yes i actually love copper, cutting any metal with hand tools just sucks
2021-07-24T18:47:41 < pjb> Look how beautiful it is: https://static3.bigstockphoto.com/5/5/3/large2/355648115.jpg
2021-07-24T18:48:08 < pjb> bitmask: just heat it, so it's easier.
2021-07-24T18:48:32 < bitmask> i like copper so much i set up a copper electroplating station
2021-07-24T18:48:36 < bitmask> :)
2021-07-24T18:49:38 < kakium69> invest in copper
2021-07-24T18:49:57 < bitmask> now to clean up this copper dust
2021-07-24T18:50:02 < bitmask> actually i should file and sand first
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2021-07-24T18:50:29 < kakium69> by invest I mean acquiring truckloads of copper
2021-07-24T18:50:53 < pjb> and peak copper is probably already behind us.
2021-07-24T18:51:09 < pjb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_copper#/media/File:Top_5_Copper_Producers.png
2021-07-24T18:52:17 < bitmask> saw a guy on youtube trying to get 1 metric tonne of metal, he buys motors and stuff from the scrapyard and melts it down
2021-07-24T18:54:52 < pjb> It would be more impressive to have the goal of gathering 1 cubic meter of the metal :-)
2021-07-24T18:55:17 < pjb> 8960 kg Cu.
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2021-07-24T19:03:32 < bitmask> it would be more impressive to have 2 cubic meters
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2021-07-24T19:23:15 < R2COM> is there a way to switch to specific virtual desktop # in win10
2021-07-24T19:23:34 < R2COM> other than go through all with ctrl+win+arrow
2021-07-24T19:34:46 < ventyl> no
2021-07-24T19:34:48 < ventyl> it is fucked up
2021-07-24T20:02:34 < karlp> a tonne isn't really all that much when you start...
2021-07-24T20:18:03 < ventyl> baaah
2021-07-24T20:55:58 < pjb> bitmask: nope. the next level is 10 m x 10 m x 10 m = 1000 m³.
2021-07-24T20:57:12 < pjb> On the other hand, it looks peak copper is 105 years away: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-all-the-known-copper-in-the-world/
2021-07-24T20:58:53 < pjb> Actually, if you made a 10m x 10m x 10m copper cube with a 2m x 2m x 2m hole in its center, to imprison the devil, we'd still have a problem: he could get away thru the 4th dimension in the past, before the cube was made.
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2021-07-24T21:44:33 < englishman> the cube would have to be travelling backwards through time as wll
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2021-07-24T22:03:31 < pjb> englishman: yes, it would have to be made both of matter and antimatter…
2021-07-24T22:03:42 < kakium69> did you know 110volt system was made to sell more copper
2021-07-24T22:04:17 < pjb> :-)
2021-07-24T22:06:13 < kakium69> *made to be standard
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2021-07-24T22:48:51 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zokhyLQloBI 1991 musics
2021-07-24T22:55:41 < pjb> kakium69: 110 V is not the standard. The standard is 220 V.
2021-07-24T22:55:46 < pjb> Everybody knows that.
2021-07-24T22:56:05 < kakium69> sorry 220v splitted phase
2021-07-24T22:56:53 < pjb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#/media/File:World_Map_of_Mains_Voltages_and_Frequencies,_Detailed.svg
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2021-07-24T23:02:47 < kakium69> 240V 60hz
2021-07-24T23:04:42 < kakium69> when you want power but have grid with neighbour
2021-07-24T23:05:28 < kakium69> meanwhile jp does 50hz and 60hz
2021-07-24T23:05:39 < kakium69>  @100V
2021-07-24T23:06:31 < kakium69> they have probs some island or so powered with electricity from russia
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2021-07-24T23:11:02 < upgrdman> anyone have a favorite usb microphone?
2021-07-24T23:11:34 < upgrdman> i tried a $25 walmart one and it works ok. not sure if i'd notice the difference between it and something more expensive
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2021-07-24T23:22:38 < kakium69> I use 3eur 3.5mm mono microphone
2021-07-24T23:25:43 < Steffanx> 25 euro trust gxt 210 here
2021-07-24T23:42:29 < PaulFertser> What do you use it for? Is it really showing anything you can't see with bare eyes?
2021-07-24T23:43:17 < PaulFertser> Also, would be interesting to hear success stories of using an IR camera. I have "seekthermal pro" at work (connected to a computer, not smartphone) but so far it wasn't particularly useful.
2021-07-24T23:43:38 < PaulFertser> pjb: 230 V for EU
2021-07-24T23:44:21 < PaulFertser> pjb: were you here before under other nick?
2021-07-24T23:45:12 < ventyl> US is even more complicated AFAIK
2021-07-24T23:45:20 < ventyl> 110V is present only in residential areas
2021-07-24T23:45:28 < ventyl> commercial areas (maybe sometimes) have like 170V
2021-07-24T23:47:00 < PaulFertser> ventyl: for real? How come?
2021-07-24T23:48:04 < ventyl> because they are americans
2021-07-24T23:50:01 < PaulFertser> ventyl: put it another way, how can that be implemented in any cheap way?
2021-07-24T23:53:06 < ventyl> hm, I can't find any record of it happening
2021-07-24T23:53:42 < ventyl> on the other hand, most pages describing mains power in US start with "residential zones"
2021-07-24T23:54:56 < ventyl> PaulFertser: on the price question: i'd expect that one zone has it's own transformer and you use either 2x220/110 or some other shit, which gives you any other voltage
2021-07-24T23:55:09 < ventyl> and then you have two different classes of devices based on voltage system
2021-07-24T23:55:14 < kakium69> ventyl: just having 220V would be to european
2021-07-24T23:55:33 < ventyl> kakium69: they use 2x220V in place of 3x400V
2021-07-24T23:56:05 < kakium69> and 170V
2021-07-24T23:56:46 < kakium69> ?
2021-07-24T23:56:46 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-24T23:57:03 < ventyl> hah
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2021-07-24T23:57:06 < ventyl> not 170V
2021-07-24T23:57:10 < ventyl> but...
2021-07-24T23:57:13 < ventyl> ...277V
2021-07-24T23:57:15 < ventyl> :)
2021-07-24T23:57:28 < englishman> yeah
2021-07-24T23:57:32 < ventyl> Most common in the USA is 480Y/277 , 3phase, 4 wire grounded system for equipment in commercial and industrial sytems. Commercial lighting normally is 277V.
2021-07-24T23:57:33 < PaulFertser> ventyl: I do not get it yet. If generation is three-phase then power lines would be three phase too, and then you'd have the corresponding transformers. Where's the two-phase voltage coming from?
2021-07-24T23:57:39 < englishman> large buildings still have 3phase
2021-07-24T23:57:48 < englishman> but not a split phase transformer
2021-07-24T23:57:54 < englishman> so they have like 208V
2021-07-24T23:58:49 < ventyl> PaulFertser: as I understand it, two phase is generated as split-phase
2021-07-24T23:59:25 < ventyl> so in fact, connection to distribution network is performed as 1x220V, which is then split to 180 degree inverted 110V "phases"
2021-07-24T23:59:26 < englishman> The most common commercial building electric service in North America is 120/208 volt wye, which is used to power 120 volt plug loads, lighting, and smaller HVAC systems. In larger facilities the voltage is 277/480 volt and used to power single phase 277 volt lighting and larger HVAC loads.
2021-07-24T23:59:36 < englishman> copypaste ^
--- Day changed Sun Jul 25 2021
2021-07-25T00:00:02 < ventyl> pretty much everything has to be fucked up there
2021-07-25T00:01:48 < PaulFertser> ventyl: so basically two phases are generated somewhere close to the residential buildings from one of the three phases that come via the big power lines?
2021-07-25T00:01:55 < englishman> here there is 735kV distribution that they also pump DC through to melt ice
2021-07-25T00:02:42 < englishman> in a typical residential service there is a split phase transformer every dozen houses or so
2021-07-25T00:03:26 < PaulFertser> Does it really make much sense? What's the point, just lowering the voltage to make it a bit safer?
2021-07-25T00:04:08 < englishman> the reason probably was safety 100 years ago. or maybe compatibility with the loads they had at the time, lightbulbs
2021-07-25T00:04:16 < englishman> speculating here
2021-07-25T00:04:43 < PaulFertser> But if you can today just install an RCD and skip the split-phase transformer, why bother?
2021-07-25T00:05:10 < ventyl> they are used to it
2021-07-25T00:05:12 < englishman> the infrat is there
2021-07-25T00:05:21 < englishman> infra
2021-07-25T00:05:44 < englishman> it's at a local minima of effort and expense
2021-07-25T00:05:57 < englishman> changing anything requires changing everything
2021-07-25T00:06:44 < englishman> the copper cost is not really significant compared to panels, transformers, etc. and labour
2021-07-25T00:07:02 < PaulFertser> Hm, and 277 V is not too suitable to be fed directly, indeed.
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2021-07-25T00:10:54 < ventyl> today, you could probably keep all the infrastructure in place, you'd only have to change transformers and maybe shittier plugs and certain direct draws, such as kettles
2021-07-25T00:12:51 < PaulFertser> And probably fridges. And many electric cooktops.
2021-07-25T00:14:35 < ventyl> hm, right
2021-07-25T00:15:00 < ventyl> luckilly, with 110V system, they are not as alone as with customary units
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2021-07-25T01:45:18 < zyp> PaulFertser, having both 110V and 220V outlets necessitates incompatible plugs to avoid fuckups
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2021-07-25T01:46:07 < zyp> and since regular outlets are 110V, all the gadgets you can buy have 110V plugs
2021-07-25T01:46:46 < zyp> and when everything comes with 110V plugs, nobody installs 220V outlets except where there's a special need
2021-07-25T01:47:13 < zyp> so you've got a chicken and egg problem if you want to transition everything over to 220V
2021-07-25T01:49:45 < zyp> the most feasible transition path would probably be to start installing european style outlets for 220V and buying stuff with EU plugs
2021-07-25T01:50:02 < upgrdman> anyone have a favorite video editor for windows?
2021-07-25T01:50:33 < upgrdman> i've been use premiere elements, but they dont seem to support my new gpu (rtx3060) so time to fuck off and find something else :/
2021-07-25T01:50:47 < englishman> i recently used avidemux for simple chopping and liked it
2021-07-25T01:50:50 < zyp> windows movie maker
2021-07-25T01:51:31 < englishman> with the new subscription scheme, premiere pro is quite affordable
2021-07-25T01:54:47 < zyp> IIRC last I fucked around with video on windows, I used avisynth and virtualdub
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2021-07-25T03:46:04 < R2COM> oh boy
2021-07-25T03:46:46 < R2COM> so even if i pimp the hell out of neovim, get autocomplete working, tags, indent plugins etc. it is still not as *cool* as it is editing code in Vscode
2021-07-25T03:47:08 < R2COM> you still feel like its kinda... crippled or something... its working fast etc, but its not as cool looking
2021-07-25T03:47:33 < R2COM> zyp what do you use to edit code
2021-07-25T04:09:52 < zyp> vscode
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2021-07-25T05:27:26 < upgrdman> heh. so premiere elements seems to hate my rtx3060. its FASTER, much faster, if i tell it not use the gpu. well, at least i found a work around. my cpu is good enough to do the job.
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2021-07-25T05:54:40 < R2COM> ok done all the vscode ricing now
2021-07-25T05:54:57 < R2COM> im back using mcu flow from win10 and vscode
2021-07-25T05:55:05 < R2COM> man its just so much better
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2021-07-25T06:28:07 < upgrdman> lol  https://pinkpen.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/pewdiepie-thumbnail.jpg   that girl looks like something from a pixar movie, but wtf pixar movie would show that
2021-07-25T06:30:15 < jadew> a movie I'd watch
2021-07-25T06:30:56 < jadew> unfortunately it's from deviant art
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2021-07-25T07:00:31 < R2COM> jadew hello gypsie
2021-07-25T07:01:32 < jadew> sup?
2021-07-25T07:04:37 < R2COM> just messing with editors again
2021-07-25T07:04:43 < R2COM> jadew what is your preferred code editor
2021-07-25T07:05:02 < jadew> vscode
2021-07-25T07:05:08 < R2COM> heh
2021-07-25T07:05:25 < jadew> but for actual programs, I use Visual Studio
2021-07-25T07:05:26 < R2COM> btw, any idea why vscode would be kinda slow on remote access?
2021-07-25T07:05:35 < jadew> I still like vscode's text editing better
2021-07-25T07:05:40 < R2COM> you mean actual programs for win environment
2021-07-25T07:05:48 < jadew> win and linux, yeah
2021-07-25T07:05:59 < R2COM> but what you mean actual code
2021-07-25T07:06:15 < jadew> like C++
2021-07-25T07:06:24 < jadew> the debugging capabilities are better in VS
2021-07-25T07:07:00 < R2COM> hm
2021-07-25T07:07:09 < jadew> don't know why it would be slow on remote, it's basically a browser window, maybe the drawing mechanism makes it slow
2021-07-25T07:07:18 < R2COM> yes
2021-07-25T07:07:25 < R2COM> most likely
2021-07-25T07:07:26 < jadew> a regular program would draw itself directly into the remote buffers
2021-07-25T07:07:52 < jadew> I guess vscode draws itself the usual way and then the resulting picture gets drawn into the buffer
2021-07-25T07:08:05 < R2COM> if i am going to work on some code library for GUI, (its isolated from MS stuff) 
2021-07-25T07:08:11 < R2COM> will i benefit from visual studio?
2021-07-25T07:08:26 < jadew> maybe with RDP the drawing commands get sent over the network, rather than the resulting image
2021-07-25T07:08:26 < R2COM> or you saying..well for debugging code for sure rite?
2021-07-25T07:08:57 < jadew> yeah, there's no contest
2021-07-25T07:09:09 < R2COM> hm
2021-07-25T07:09:28 < jadew> maybe you can find some amazingly good debugging plugin for vscode, but the stuff it comes with is not that great
2021-07-25T07:10:03 < R2COM> so i'll just keep using for MCU (since debug is command line GDB) and for Python
2021-07-25T07:10:10 < R2COM> but for anything c++ you say MSVC then
2021-07-25T07:10:40 < jadew> yeah, maybe the next VS will use the vscode editor
2021-07-25T07:10:43 < R2COM> you seen 2022 preview?
2021-07-25T07:10:50 < jadew> then you'll have the best of both worlds
2021-07-25T07:10:55 < R2COM> ya
2021-07-25T07:10:57 < jadew> I haven't, I'm still on 2019
2021-07-25T07:12:14 < R2COM> in what way MSVC editor is better than vscode?
2021-07-25T07:12:48 < jadew> the editor is not better, it used to be nice, but by today's standards, not anymore
2021-07-25T07:13:30 < jadew> also, it has bugs that have been present for years and haven't been fixed
2021-07-25T07:13:40 < jadew> vscode is much more actively supported
2021-07-25T07:14:37 < R2COM> ok
2021-07-25T07:14:46 < R2COM> hm noty all plugins exist either
2021-07-25T07:14:52 < R2COM> there its called "extensions" i guess
2021-07-25T07:15:49 < jadew> I recommend getting the Project Manager plugin
2021-07-25T07:16:09 < R2COM> hm
2021-07-25T07:16:32 < jadew> it makes working with vscode a lot nicer
2021-07-25T07:16:39 < R2COM> in what ways
2021-07-25T07:16:53 < jadew> you would normally open a folder to work on
2021-07-25T07:16:55 < R2COM> oh man i cant find tokyonight colorscheme there, transparency mod etc
2021-07-25T07:17:00 < R2COM> i cannot rice MSVC :)
2021-07-25T07:17:01 < jadew> with that extension you can save it as a project
2021-07-25T07:17:08 < jadew> and then switch between them as you need
2021-07-25T07:17:36 < R2COM> well
2021-07-25T07:17:43 < R2COM> but isnt everything a "project" in MSVC anyway?
2021-07-25T07:17:46 < R2COM> .sln ?
2021-07-25T07:17:46 < jadew> you should be able to edit the theme
2021-07-25T07:17:58 < jadew> ah, I was talking about vscode
2021-07-25T07:18:28 < jadew> the Project Manager is for vscode, not VS
2021-07-25T07:18:50 < R2COM> ahh
2021-07-25T07:18:51 < R2COM> hmm
2021-07-25T07:18:58 < R2COM> but what is benefit in it?
2021-07-25T07:19:08 < R2COM> i mean i'd do "open folder" and be done with it, no?
2021-07-25T07:19:22 < jadew> you have to use vscode first to understand
2021-07-25T07:19:27 < jadew> it scratches an itch
2021-07-25T07:20:34 < R2COM> what you mean?
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2021-07-25T07:20:40 < R2COM> cuz i used it i dont get what you mean
2021-07-25T07:20:55 < jadew> well, in order to switch from one project to another, you have to open that folder
2021-07-25T07:21:16 < jadew> with the project manager plugin you can just hit shift+alt+p and select it from the list
2021-07-25T07:21:20 < jadew> that's pretty much it
2021-07-25T07:21:54 < jadew> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=alefragnani.project-manager
2021-07-25T07:21:56 < R2COM> ahh
2021-07-25T07:21:59 < R2COM> right...hmm
2021-07-25T07:22:12 < R2COM> yeah sounds as useful if switching is often needed
2021-07-25T07:22:44 < jadew> you don't have to locate the folders anymore
2021-07-25T07:23:05 < jadew> you first start vscode and then you can do reaveal file if you need to open the folder
2021-07-25T07:23:37 < R2COM> oh
2021-07-25T07:23:38 < jadew> changes the workflow a little
2021-07-25T07:24:11 < jadew> *if you need to open the folder in explorer
2021-07-25T07:24:27 < R2COM> here is how my vscode looks now:
2021-07-25T07:24:29 < R2COM> https://i.imgur.com/0vR1N4o.jpg
2021-07-25T07:24:39 < R2COM> i wonder if i can make MSVC be like that?
2021-07-25T07:25:26 < jadew> IIRC it has split screens
2021-07-25T07:25:50 < jadew> I don't use that much, because I don't have enough screen estate
2021-07-25T07:25:52 < R2COM> its really dumb that during development of vscode they didnt "merge" it with MSVC
2021-07-25T07:26:07 < R2COM> you dont work on 4k monitor?
2021-07-25T07:26:28 < jadew> nope, 24" 1080
2021-07-25T07:26:47 < R2COM> that sucks buy nice monitor 
2021-07-25T07:26:58 < jadew> bigger ones won't fit on my desk
2021-07-25T07:27:11 < jadew> I want to have 3
2021-07-25T07:28:00 < R2COM> lol but 1x 4k is better than 3x 1080p
2021-07-25T07:28:02 < R2COM> isnt it?
2021-07-25T07:28:13 < R2COM> 27-28" 4k
2021-07-25T07:28:37 < jadew> not necessarily, because I organize things a certain way
2021-07-25T07:28:56 < jadew> (how I got used to do it)
2021-07-25T07:29:42 < R2COM> well yeah, it depends on each person i guess
2021-07-25T07:30:04 < R2COM> i used to have 3x monitors, then changed my flow for all stuff
2021-07-25T07:30:18 < jadew> how many do you have now?
2021-07-25T07:30:48 < jadew> just the one big screen?
2021-07-25T07:31:41 < R2COM> 1
2021-07-25T07:31:42 < R2COM> yes
2021-07-25T07:32:23 < jadew> don't you miss the ability to quickly have access something else on a different monitor?
2021-07-25T07:33:05 < R2COM> "ctrl+win+LEFT/RIGHT" and switch to virtual desktop immediately
2021-07-25T07:33:16 < R2COM> its not effective to sit and rotate head
2021-07-25T07:33:41 < jadew> I guess that's a good argument too
2021-07-25T07:33:42 < R2COM> i dont look at everything at same time, and if i need look at something else, its switched there
2021-07-25T07:34:00 < R2COM> cuz your brain cant process data from looking at 3 monitors at same time
2021-07-25T07:34:06 < R2COM> you concentrate attention on one anyway
2021-07-25T07:34:09 < jadew> if the monitors are not too big, you don't need to rotate between two of them - you need between nr1 and nr3 tho
2021-07-25T07:34:42 < jadew> yeah, that's true
2021-07-25T07:34:48 < R2COM> i still think window managers in unix are kinda better at that
2021-07-25T07:34:54 < R2COM> but win10 is OK actually
2021-07-25T07:35:19 < jadew> what do you like better in unix?
2021-07-25T07:35:33 < R2COM> i got my monitor wall mounted, so my keyboard is also under it and i have more real estate around me for ipad etc
2021-07-25T07:35:50 < R2COM> i kinda like that package management philosophy of FreeBSD
2021-07-25T07:35:57 < R2COM> when i say unix btw i mean FreeBSD
2021-07-25T07:36:03 < R2COM> (not some linux garbage)
2021-07-25T07:36:50 < R2COM> but my problem is... even with FreeBSD, not sure if its as comfortable for everyday heavylifting CAD/EDA work as Win10 really
2021-07-25T07:37:16 < R2COM> i simplest reason is this vscode example
2021-07-25T07:37:22 < R2COM> i can run it there, but it has some bugs there
2021-07-25T07:37:27 < R2COM> doesnt work fine
2021-07-25T07:37:35 < R2COM> and neovim with plugins is not as cool as vscode
2021-07-25T07:37:45 < R2COM> so i got inferior editing there basically
2021-07-25T07:38:20 < R2COM> not end of the world of course, but...nowadays in 2021 i wanna work in cool environment on my main machine
2021-07-25T07:38:37 < R2COM> (i assume unix itself was created using way more shitty code editors back in 80s)
2021-07-25T07:39:23 < R2COM> but in my work its harder... cuz i need to edit codes on secure servers far away and i cant run fucking vscode there
2021-07-25T07:39:27 < R2COM> just vim with plugins
2021-07-25T07:40:03 < jadew> yeah, you can do the same job with shittier ones, but once you get used to a particular feature that makes your life easier, working without it feels like you're losing a lot
2021-07-25T07:40:17 < R2COM> rite
2021-07-25T07:40:23 < jadew> well, vim is fine too
2021-07-25T07:40:31 < jadew> you just have to accessorize it
2021-07-25T07:40:46 < jadew> and keep a cheat sheet around :)
2021-07-25T07:41:23 < R2COM> i dont need cheatsheet, but then again im not 100% pro in it at all
2021-07-25T07:41:31 < R2COM> i keep learning new stuff
2021-07-25T07:41:35 < jadew> I always need a refresher before going back to vim
2021-07-25T07:41:42 < R2COM> but neovim i recently tried is definitely better
2021-07-25T07:41:57 < R2COM> by the way
2021-07-25T07:41:59 < R2COM> strange thing...
2021-07-25T07:42:14 < R2COM> i kinda noticed that neovim with LSP works faster than intellisense in vscode
2021-07-25T07:42:15 < R2COM> lol
2021-07-25T07:42:18 < R2COM> like wtf
2021-07-25T07:42:32 < R2COM> like, if you introduce error, neovim prints info about it right away on side faster
2021-07-25T07:43:00 < R2COM> not super faster, but...have slight feeling that its faster
2021-07-25T07:43:01 < jadew> depends on the plugins used, if you don't like the vscode autocomplete, you'll hate the VS one
2021-07-25T07:43:15 < jadew> it's another one of those things that used to be great, now it isn't
2021-07-25T07:43:33 < jadew> in VS you need Visual Assist X if you want nice autocomplete in C++
2021-07-25T07:45:36 < R2COM> btw, do you know how to change the "next autocomplete suggestion" in msvc to Tab key?
2021-07-25T07:45:43 < R2COM> I did it in vscode, not sure if its same in MSVC
2021-07-25T07:46:05 < R2COM> say xxx-> "and now i wanna hit Tab until right one is selected, then Enter"
2021-07-25T07:46:23 < jadew> no, I just scroll through the list
2021-07-25T07:46:49 < jadew> (or keep typing)
2021-07-25T07:46:52 < R2COM> i see Visual Assist in extensions
2021-07-25T07:47:01 < jadew> yeah, kind of expensive tho
2021-07-25T07:47:03 < R2COM> not Visual Assist X in extension browser
2021-07-25T07:47:03 < R2COM> ?
2021-07-25T07:47:04 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-25T07:47:23 < jadew> ?help
2021-07-25T07:47:23 < xnand> I don't know about help
2021-07-25T07:47:43 < jadew> ?bitch=Someone who doesn't know about help.
2021-07-25T07:47:44 < xnand> Done
2021-07-25T07:47:46 < jadew> ?bitch
2021-07-25T07:47:46 < xnand> bitch is Someone who doesn't know about help.
2021-07-25T07:47:52 < jadew> ?bitch=someone who doesn't know about help.
2021-07-25T07:47:53 < xnand> Done
2021-07-25T07:47:59 < R2COM> wtf is that
2021-07-25T07:48:03 < jadew> I don't know
2021-07-25T07:48:09 < jadew> a bot it seems
2021-07-25T07:48:19 < jadew> ?stm32
2021-07-25T07:48:19 < xnand> I don't know about stm32
2021-07-25T07:48:28 < jadew> ?xnand
2021-07-25T07:48:29 < xnand> xnand is annoying bot
2021-07-25T07:49:32 < jadew> I guess it's for canned answers for people asking for help
2021-07-25T07:50:02 < R2COM> wait
2021-07-25T07:50:10 < R2COM> wtf
2021-07-25T07:50:21 < R2COM> visual assist is not free
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2021-07-25T07:50:28 < jadew> heh, it's not, yeah
2021-07-25T07:50:35 < jadew> it's quite expensive really
2021-07-25T07:50:48 < R2COM> is it better than intellisense in vscode?
2021-07-25T07:51:04 < jadew> I haven't used vscode for C++ so I can't tell
2021-07-25T07:51:20 < jadew> it's better tan intellisense in VS
2021-07-25T07:51:55 < jadew> *than
2021-07-25T07:52:01 < R2COM> $279 year?
2021-07-25T07:52:02 < R2COM> hm
2021-07-25T07:52:12 < R2COM> or month
2021-07-25T07:52:13 < jadew> or $130 for personal use
2021-07-25T07:52:14 < R2COM> dont get it
2021-07-25T07:52:16 < jadew> a year
2021-07-25T07:52:22 < R2COM> ah
2021-07-25T07:52:28 < R2COM> but thats not expencive yo
2021-07-25T07:52:42 < jadew> it's something the IDE should already be doing
2021-07-25T07:52:49 < jadew> so... in that sense, it kinda is
2021-07-25T07:52:55 < R2COM> agree
2021-07-25T07:53:03 < R2COM> you ever used or touched jetbrains clion
2021-07-25T07:53:12 < jadew> no
2021-07-25T07:53:20 < jadew> I avoid Java based stuff
2021-07-25T07:57:58 < R2COM> jadew do you think that if PCB cad software is written as Immediate mode GUI its a right way of doing such soft
2021-07-25T07:58:03 < R2COM> both schematics and layout
2021-07-25T07:59:11 < jadew> I don't know, is it the right way of doing anything?
2021-07-25T07:59:25 < R2COM> yes
2021-07-25T07:59:31 < jadew> I guess it makes sense in graphical environments
2021-07-25T07:59:44 < jadew> maybe... don't really know
2021-07-25T07:59:50 < R2COM> and constant work in graphics during schematics is always graphics
2021-07-25T07:59:52 < R2COM> ok
2021-07-25T08:03:05 < R2COM> i see various guides on c++ debugging with vscode
2021-07-25T08:03:18 < R2COM> are you saying that, its all not worth spending time on, just use MSVC for anycing c++ ?
2021-07-25T08:03:20 < R2COM> anything
2021-07-25T08:03:31 < R2COM> (except MCU stuff which debugged differently)
2021-07-25T08:11:13 < R2COM> https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/cpp/config-msvc
2021-07-25T08:11:15 < R2COM> so
2021-07-25T08:11:31 < R2COM> this guide basically tells how to use msvc tools for building and debugging in vscode
2021-07-25T08:11:42 < R2COM> not sure how good it is, in your opinion jadew?
2021-07-25T08:11:48 < R2COM> still inferior to MSVC?
2021-07-25T08:12:11 < R2COM> lots of fuckery to configure it btw
2021-07-25T08:14:14 < jadew> R2COM, you could give it a try, the drawbacks could be smaller than the positives
2021-07-25T08:41:21 < R2COM> time to drink glass of wine and go to sleep
2021-07-25T08:47:33 < R2COM> i dont get it why vscode using json all over
2021-07-25T08:47:38 < R2COM> why not, dunno... Lua
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2021-07-25T09:24:16 < jadew> R2COM, vscode is written in typescript, which compiles into javascript
2021-07-25T09:24:27 < jadew> and javascript consumes JSON natively
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2021-07-25T20:17:56 < upgrdman> anyone know of a source for good microphone reviews? like real reviews based on science/engineering, not just idiots talking about the pretty design
2021-07-25T20:19:40 < englishman> havent seen one yet. just vbloggers / audiophools
2021-07-25T20:20:00 < englishman> i got a blue snowball. works fine. cheap. sounds better than cheap mics. that's my review
2021-07-25T20:20:26 < englishman> don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe
2021-07-25T20:28:35 < sauce> upgrdman: what are you looking for
2021-07-25T20:32:23 < upgrdman> sauce, a usb mic that is a good balance of quality and price. i bought a $25 walmart one and it works fine but i figure i should buy something "decent"
2021-07-25T20:32:52 < upgrdman> guessing 24bit would be nice, assuming it can actually use those bits and its not some upscaling joke
2021-07-25T20:38:57 < sauce> for desktop/vox use? dont think that sample depth is worth the bump in price. snowball's fine
2021-07-25T20:39:39 < sauce> get an articulated stand so you can get it away from the desk surface
2021-07-25T20:42:58 < lemmi> unless you are recording music and need to add long filter chains to the sound, 24bit is useless
2021-07-25T20:44:04 < upgrdman> hmmm k
2021-07-25T20:45:14 < lemmi> the problem with ultra cheapo usb mics is that they sometimes don't support different sampling rates. that can be very annoying with some software, when the microphone is capped at 16khz, while your output is running the usual 48khz
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2021-07-25T21:31:30 < ds2> 24bit mics? Are most mic elements capable of 24bits dynamic range?
2021-07-25T21:35:33 < lemmi> getting microphone with >110 db dynamic range isn't too hard. 16bit would be 96 db dynamic range. 
2021-07-25T21:36:20 < lemmi> but for voice without a lot of processing this isn't necessary
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2021-07-25T21:39:39 < kakium69> where is laurence?
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2021-07-25T22:11:09 < Steffanx> he was banned a while back
2021-07-25T22:13:31 < kakium69> what did he do
2021-07-25T22:15:06 < Steffanx> Being an asshole or something
2021-07-25T22:15:27 < kakium69> oh that bad
2021-07-25T22:15:44 < kakium69> usually just too annoying for too long
2021-07-25T22:17:04 < qyx> lemmi: are you a mic pro?
2021-07-25T22:17:43 < lemmi> i wouldn't think so. i just have some experience recording/mixing
2021-07-25T22:18:02 < qyx> that's not the answer I expected :(
2021-07-25T22:19:58 < qyx> recently I was trying to figure out if it is better to use external pro electret mic + external 24 bit ADC OR external pro electret mic + internal 16 bit ADC OR PDM mic
2021-07-25T22:20:18 < qyx> with the requirement of high dynamic range and low power <= 200 uA
2021-07-25T22:20:52 < qyx> then I stopped thinking about it for a while when I was not able to find an electret capsule with less than 0.5 mA consumption
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2021-07-25T23:31:12 < R2COM> lol
2021-07-25T23:57:06 < upgrdman> jeez   https://imgur.com/a/LD2PVwi
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2021-07-26T00:29:01 < Steffanx> Haha, got yourself a real fan. Soon you'll have a fan club for sure. 
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2021-07-26T03:03:46 < MrMobius> how long is lolrenceb's ban?
2021-07-26T03:25:14 < R2COM> MrMobius I don't think he is loosing much not being here
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2021-07-26T16:05:51 < jadew> found an institute in my city that can fabricate microwave ICs of your own design
2021-07-26T16:06:18 < jadew> they have like 10 phone lines, and none of them are working
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2021-07-26T16:50:35 < pjb> They're busy working.
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2021-07-26T23:22:45 < fluiD> I'm trying to call USBD_CDC_TransmitPacket which wants a USBD_HandleTypeDef but I am having no luck figuring out what that is.
2021-07-26T23:24:19 < fluiD> It looks like it should be hUsbDeviceFS but that's not defined.
2021-07-26T23:25:05 < fluiD> Really all I want to do is check the TxState like CDC_Transmit_FS does
2021-07-26T23:32:28 < fluiD> USBD_HandleTypeDef hUsbDeviceFS is defined in usb_device.c but I don't know how to access it from main.c
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2021-07-26T23:43:01 < fluiD> I #include "usbd_cdc_if.h" and extern USBD_HandleTypeDef hUsbDeviceFS.
2021-07-26T23:43:38 < fluiD> hUsbDeviceFS.pClassData->TxState is some really large number which makes me think it's not initialized.
--- Day changed Tue Jul 27 2021
2021-07-27T00:03:20 < fluiD> Ug. It seems that everything in hUsbDeviceFS.pClassData is garbage
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2021-07-27T00:17:30 < fluiD> If I use USBD_CDC_HandleTypeDef *hcdc (USBD_CDC_HandleTypeDef*)hUsbDeviceFS.pClassData, then I can check if hcdc == NULL, which it always is
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2021-07-27T06:21:11 < upgrdman> if anyone wants to see inside a $25 usb mic: http://farrellf.com/temp/cheap_usb_microphone_teardown/
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2021-07-27T07:21:35 < cluelessperson> Hi there.
2021-07-27T07:21:51 < cluelessperson> I have a stm32 dev board
2021-07-27T07:21:58 < cluelessperson> how do I quickly start using it?
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2021-07-27T07:38:08 < R2COM> lo
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2021-07-27T08:54:18 < R2COM> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401384883735363604/869443539141009428/20210726_084513.jpg
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2021-07-27T10:27:50 < ventyl> cluelessperson: download STM32Cube for it, there are some examples
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2021-07-27T14:38:59 < bitmask> hmm, should i format all my OS drives?
2021-07-27T14:51:54 < kakium69> yes
2021-07-27T14:53:30 < kakium69> 12pass with /dev/random
2021-07-27T14:56:36 < Steffanx> Before you do what bitmask?
2021-07-27T14:59:34 < bitmask> nothing, i just used to reinstall windows like every year or two to keep things running smoothly, now i never do
2021-07-27T15:03:10 < ventyl> reinstall.. windows..
2021-07-27T15:03:12 < ventyl> meh
2021-07-27T15:05:56 < kakium69> winxp?
2021-07-27T15:16:40 < Steffanx> Lol. I hardly ever reinstall windows, except when new PC
2021-07-27T15:16:46 < Steffanx> Thats a thing of the past
2021-07-27T15:17:56 < Steffanx> I just copy my old installation to a new disk when I buy a new disk.
2021-07-27T15:18:20 < Steffanx> And i would just format it using the windows installer if I would do a new install
2021-07-27T15:18:42 < kakium69> I reinstall windows like every 3years
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2021-07-27T15:41:08 < ventyl> i haven't reinstalled windows in a decade, maybe even longer. not counting new installations on new machines
2021-07-27T15:42:49 < kakium69> so do you replace your machine every 3years?
2021-07-27T15:46:20 < ventyl> last windows install started as 7 and was subsequently updated to 10. it shown no persistent problems reinstall could solve in 4 years i've been using it and maybe it still runs unaltered... who knows
2021-07-27T15:46:38 < ventyl> then I got corporate laptop with win 10
2021-07-27T15:47:09 < ventyl> if it would break, I would simply call support and they would deal with it. or not. but no such thing happened and I left that corporate too
2021-07-27T15:48:50 < bitmask> yea maybe i'll just clean up my folders
2021-07-27T15:48:50 < kakium69> btw. windows makes quite substancial backups with major version updates
2021-07-27T15:49:10 < bitmask> anyone try musou black?
2021-07-27T15:49:28 < bitmask> ordered 100ml bottle of it
2021-07-27T15:51:55 < ventyl> never ran out of disk space due to windows update backups
2021-07-27T15:52:57 < kakium69> it can has like 50gigs of shit there
2021-07-27T15:53:03 < kakium69> I have once
2021-07-27T15:53:31 < kakium69> in my workshop computer used for vehicle diagnostics and reading pdfs
2021-07-27T15:53:40 < kakium69> it has 120GB ssd
2021-07-27T15:54:32 < kakium69> I'm like why does this win10 stay in update loop
2021-07-27T15:54:45 < kakium69> just restart - fail - restart
2021-07-27T15:55:28 < ventyl> heh, my workshop computer doesn't have any diagnostic capabilities. as none of my vehicles has any :)
2021-07-27T15:55:34 < kakium69> I had like 20GB of files there so it didn't make sense
2021-07-27T15:56:08 < kakium69> so I launched windows cleaner thing in win10 and it said 50GB of backups of older windows versions
2021-07-27T15:56:39 < kakium69> *free disc space function or something
2021-07-27T16:02:54 < bitmask> can you solder to a copper plate if you heat it with a heat gun first?
2021-07-27T16:03:44 < bitmask> and can you electrically isolate a thermocouple?
2021-07-27T16:04:11 < bitmask> i wanna measure the temp of a copper plate but the plate is connected to the negative terminal of a separate battery powered circuit producing 1kV
2021-07-27T16:09:02 < bitmask> maybe i should just glue it on 
2021-07-27T16:09:16 < bitmask> the high voltage supply that is
2021-07-27T16:09:34 < bitmask> its only creating an electric field so very little current
2021-07-27T16:10:21 < kakium69> is it DC?
2021-07-27T16:11:15 < BrainDamage> bitmask: re:plate, use a hotplate, heat gun might be a bit wimpy in terms of output power, but you're free to try
2021-07-27T16:11:28 < bitmask> k
2021-07-27T16:11:38 < bitmask> kakium69 i think pulsed dc but im not sure
2021-07-27T16:11:52 < BrainDamage> re: thermocouple, mica sheets are decent thermal conductors and good insulators
2021-07-27T16:12:20 < BrainDamage> clamp with a plastic screw or a metallic screw and a plastic washer set
2021-07-27T16:12:35 < BrainDamage> it's kind of standard procedure to insulate large transistors tabs
2021-07-27T16:12:47 < bitmask> ok i'll look into that thanks
2021-07-27T16:13:11 < kakium69> when you have high rates of voltage change capacitive coupling can be a problem
2021-07-27T16:13:12 < bitmask> i kinda wanted to drill a hole (not all the way through) and glue it in but i guess thats not gonna happen
2021-07-27T16:13:57 < kakium69> you might want IC that can handle a lot of common mode
2021-07-27T16:14:09 < BrainDamage> add ferrite chokes
2021-07-27T16:14:17 < BrainDamage> those block common mode
2021-07-27T16:14:23 < kakium69> hmm
2021-07-27T16:14:25 < kakium69> indeed
2021-07-27T16:14:36 < bitmask> wtf is common mode
2021-07-27T16:14:46 < BrainDamage> say you have 2 wires
2021-07-27T16:14:58 < BrainDamage> common mode is (a+b)/2, the average
2021-07-27T16:15:02 < BrainDamage> differential is a-b
2021-07-27T16:15:14 < BrainDamage> it's just another way to see it
2021-07-27T16:15:21 < bitmask> i see
2021-07-27T16:15:30 < BrainDamage> but it's useful to analyse circuits because you see the symmetries
2021-07-27T16:15:38 < BrainDamage> a thermocouple gives you a differential signal
2021-07-27T16:15:49 < BrainDamage> while interferences are often through common mode
2021-07-27T16:15:55 < bitmask> i think i'll hold off on the thermocouple for now, i can just use my IR therm
2021-07-27T16:16:24 < kakium69> common mode is the part that doesn't affect the diff voltage bitmask
2021-07-27T16:16:57 < BrainDamage> ideally a differential amp should only amplify a-b
2021-07-27T16:17:09 < BrainDamage> in reality it amplifies a little a+b too
2021-07-27T16:17:27 < BrainDamage> the ratios between the gain is the CMRR
2021-07-27T16:17:43 < BrainDamage> moreover, the common mode can saturate or even destroy the amp
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2021-07-27T16:18:44 < kakium69> clearly there is some common modes in thermocouple applications as some thermocouple ICs go to like 60V common mode survival
2021-07-27T16:19:00 < kakium69> or even 60V operational
2021-07-27T16:19:10 < BrainDamage> yep, it's pretty common for industrial processes
2021-07-27T16:19:25 < BrainDamage> those thermocouples get often shoved inside chemical tanks, etc
2021-07-27T16:19:35 < BrainDamage> floating charge, etc can generate significant potential
2021-07-27T16:20:03 < BrainDamage> however, 1kV common mode insulation is a bit past most specs
2021-07-27T16:20:20 < BrainDamage> so it'll be easier to insulate the probe first, and then deal with the residual
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2021-07-27T16:50:33 < mawk> why wasn't I on the channel anymore
2021-07-27T16:50:34 < mawk> what happened
2021-07-27T16:50:47 < mawk> maybe I left by accident
2021-07-27T16:51:32 < ventyl> you got bored by us
2021-07-27T16:51:37 < mawk> :(
2021-07-27T16:52:00 < ventyl> ok, finally the MPU stuff doesn't look like a total garbage
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2021-07-27T17:51:15 < Steffanx> Lol mawk, you havent been here for 4 days 
2021-07-27T17:51:35 < Steffanx> We thought you left with the crack 
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2021-07-27T18:19:48 < tct> fucking english people. who the fuck writes ´center´ as ´centre´ - c´mon.
2021-07-27T18:22:09 < jpa-> who writes "c´mon" with such weird dot
2021-07-27T18:22:17 < Streaker> those are two different words
2021-07-27T18:22:25 < Streaker> with different meanings
2021-07-27T18:22:36 < Streaker> trust Americans to not know there is a difference
2021-07-27T18:22:37 < tct> Streaker, please elaborate
2021-07-27T18:22:37 < Streaker> :p
2021-07-27T18:22:48 < tct> I´d like to know more.
2021-07-27T18:24:49 < Streaker> hm... I don't seem to be backed up very strongly by Google but I was taught centre is the middle of a circle and center is an institution etc
2021-07-27T18:24:56 < BrainDamage> middle of a structure, vs place that unifies multiple buildings
2021-07-27T18:25:42 < Streaker> err the other way around.
2021-07-27T18:54:06 < pjb> tct: everybody write centre. It's the americans who can't listen, read or speak who make it center.
2021-07-27T18:55:38 < pjb> Latin: centrum, Dutch: centrum, Spanish: centro, Italian: centro, French: centre, English: centre, etc.
2021-07-27T18:56:48 < englishman> did you chat on freenode under a different nick pjb?
2021-07-27T18:57:52 < pjb> Nope.
2021-07-27T18:57:57 < pjb> I'm the same.
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2021-07-27T19:05:32 < Streaker> a new guy!
2021-07-27T19:06:26 < pjb> Catalan: centre, Lithuanian: centre, Sebuano: sentro, Romanian: centru, Corsican: centru, Maltese: ċentru, Swedish: centrum, Slovak: centrum, Czech: centrum, Danish: centrum, Galician: centro, Portuguese: centro, Esperanto: centro, Frisian: sintrum, German: Zentrum, Luxembourgish: Zentrum, Afrikan: sentrum, Albanian: qendra, Basque: zentroa, Latvian: centrā, Belarus: цэнтр, Bulgarian:
2021-07-27T19:06:26 < pjb> център, Russian: центр, Ukranian: центр, Greek: κέντρο
2021-07-27T19:06:59 < pjb> So, the big majority of languages, even amongst those not using the latin alphabet, but the 'r' before a final vowel.
2021-07-27T19:07:34 < pjb> Only the Americans and a few other countries insert the vowel between the 't' and the 'r'.
2021-07-27T19:07:40 < pjb> Speech impediment anybody?
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2021-07-27T19:16:19 < mawk> pjb: not in british english
2021-07-27T19:16:22 < mawk> it's just a spelling inversion
2021-07-27T19:16:48 < mawk> well actually no
2021-07-27T19:16:52 < mawk> they say it the wrong way
2021-07-27T19:17:03 < mawk> the english should disappear from the earth anyway
2021-07-27T19:25:20 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-07-27T19:30:05 < mawk> DHL delivered a 106kg package to the wrong office
2021-07-27T19:30:11 < mawk> and left it on the sidewalk under the rain
2021-07-27T19:30:25 < mawk> I had to carry it by myself inside, and then move it again because it is smelling like cancer
2021-07-27T19:30:29 < mawk> it's some sort of rubber flaps
2021-07-27T19:32:56 < ventyl> english allows indian guys to scam the rest of the world, keep it
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2021-07-27T19:42:20 < Steffanx> So does tct write colour or color?
2021-07-27T19:47:06 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-07-27T19:48:56 < mawk> coluor
2021-07-27T19:49:01 < mawk> obviously
2021-07-27T19:59:51 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-07-27T20:06:44 < Steffanx> Coureur
2021-07-27T20:06:52 < Steffanx> Couleur 
2021-07-27T20:07:11 < Steffanx> Where have you been mawk 
2021-07-27T20:07:29 < mawk> home, why?
2021-07-27T20:12:02 -!- Streaker [~Streaker@user/streaker] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-27T20:16:16 < Steffanx> ##stm32 missed you
2021-07-27T20:16:17 < xnand> Commands: cache decide nar
2021-07-27T20:17:52 < Steffanx> ??=bla
2021-07-27T20:17:53 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
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2021-07-27T20:22:15 < bitmask> well my cloud chamber is just about rebuilt with the second peltier in place
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2021-07-27T20:22:39 < bitmask> if it makes zero difference or makes it worse im gonna be pissed :P
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2021-07-27T20:31:00 < mawk> so you finally stacked them bitmask ?
2021-07-27T20:31:08 < mawk> ?cache
2021-07-27T20:31:09 < xnand> I don't know about cache
2021-07-27T20:31:11 < mawk> ?decide
2021-07-27T20:31:12 < xnand> I don't know about decide
2021-07-27T20:31:15 < mawk> shut up
2021-07-27T20:31:17 < bitmask> mawk nah, side by side
2021-07-27T20:31:22 < mawk> go die in a hole xnand 
2021-07-27T20:31:23 < mawk> ah bitmask 
2021-07-27T20:31:49 < mawk> I have a secret fear that my boss is looking me do illegal shit when I'm alone at the office
2021-07-27T20:31:55 < mawk> so I went into the CCTV room to make sure everything is off
2021-07-27T20:32:21 < Steffanx> Cctv at work?
2021-07-27T20:32:36 < mawk> yes
2021-07-27T20:32:42 < mawk> you don't have that?
2021-07-27T20:32:46 < mawk> but I checked and it's turned off
2021-07-27T20:32:51 < mawk> only the CCTV of the front door is on
2021-07-27T20:33:33 < Steffanx> Nope.
2021-07-27T20:33:42 < Steffanx> I wouldnt even want such thing.
2021-07-27T20:34:30 < mawk> me neither
2021-07-27T20:34:39 < mawk> that's why I would've broken it if I found any
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2021-07-27T22:17:11 < BrainDamage> mawk: compressed and layered medical gauze makes for excellent filters
2021-07-27T22:18:23 < mawk> to filter what BrainDamage , the air when breathing the rubber cancer?
2021-07-27T22:18:27 < mawk> or to filter the CCTV
2021-07-27T22:18:44 < BrainDamage> to filter whatever you were filtering 2 weeks ago
2021-07-27T22:18:48 < mawk> ah yes right
2021-07-27T22:18:49 < BrainDamage> when you asked me about it
2021-07-27T22:18:55 < mawk> I stil only filtered 50mL of that and it took 2 weeks
2021-07-27T22:19:03 < mawk> I have 450mL to go
2021-07-27T22:19:06 < mawk> good idea, I will try gauze
2021-07-27T22:19:06 < BrainDamage> told you to get a vacuum setup
2021-07-27T22:19:13 < mawk> yes when I get my salary
2021-07-27T22:19:17 < mawk> currently I'm -500€ on my bank account
2021-07-27T22:19:20 < mawk> they blocked my credit card
2021-07-27T22:27:22 < kakium69> good life
2021-07-27T22:28:25 < mawk> lol
2021-07-27T22:29:38 < kakium69> never had that happen to me
2021-07-27T22:29:47 < kakium69> I increased my limit to 3kilos
2021-07-27T22:30:59 < Steffanx> I dont even have a credit card just a debit card
2021-07-27T22:31:22 < kakium69> there basically is no need for credit card
2021-07-27T22:31:27 < qyx> I stopped using my credit card
2021-07-27T22:31:32 < qyx> and asked the bank to terminate it
2021-07-27T22:31:43 < BrainDamage> if you live in the us, you 'have to'
2021-07-27T22:31:44 < kakium69> I got credit debit card because I'm big boy now
2021-07-27T22:32:08 < BrainDamage> they have a thing called credit score that gets higher the more debt you pay off
2021-07-27T22:32:09 < qyx> the only purpose of the card was to replace a "virtual card" which wasn't available here
2021-07-27T22:32:15 < kakium69> they called from bank that Imma big boy now get a credit debit card
2021-07-27T22:32:36 < BrainDamage> so you have to constantly get in small debt and pay it off to show you're such a great consumer
2021-07-27T22:32:42 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-07-27T22:32:45 < mawk> Steffanx: I have a credit debit card
2021-07-27T22:32:46 < BrainDamage> so you can eg get a loan for a car, or a house
2021-07-27T22:32:49 < qyx> yeah but fuk us
2021-07-27T22:32:50 < mawk> it's a credit card with written "debit" on it
2021-07-27T22:32:54 < kakium69> BrainDamage: more you use it the better
2021-07-27T22:33:00 < mawk> they gave it to me when I was abusing my real credit card and gone -3000€
2021-07-27T22:33:45 < mawk> BrainDamage: it's the exact inverse with me lol
2021-07-27T22:33:52 < mawk> the more debt I pay back, the less my banker trusts me
2021-07-27T22:34:03 < mawk> I had to plea for 10 minutes to get a mere 3000€ loan
2021-07-27T22:34:22 < mawk> "I have a job now, I have stable income, we are 2 in the household, please run the checks again"
2021-07-27T22:34:22 < BrainDamage> you would've never gotten it in the us
2021-07-27T22:34:28 < mawk> yeah I guess
2021-07-27T22:34:40 < kakium69> I heard that if you are loan free for 2years bank considers you not OK
2021-07-27T22:34:43 < ventyl> I would be terrible US citizen too
2021-07-27T22:35:36 < kakium69> I have been loan free for like.. 5-7years idk
2021-07-27T22:36:20 < BrainDamage> I never needed a loan because I got in an accident when I was a kid and got paid quite a decent sum as reparation
2021-07-27T22:36:26 < BrainDamage> and compound interests
2021-07-27T22:36:37 < mawk> do you have lasting damage BrainDamage ?
2021-07-27T22:36:41 < kakium69> BrainDamage: luckily not in americas
2021-07-27T22:36:45 < kakium69> rite
2021-07-27T22:37:23 < BrainDamage> mawk: me a minor scar, some stitches and slight nose cartilage deformation
2021-07-27T22:37:29 < mawk> I see
2021-07-27T22:37:42 < BrainDamage> my mother got a major scar and many stitches along her leg
2021-07-27T22:37:49 < BrainDamage> she shielded me with her body
2021-07-27T22:38:04 < BrainDamage> but the motorbike's clutch lever got in my nose
2021-07-27T22:38:17 < kakium69> yaiks
2021-07-27T22:38:20 < mawk> you were as pedestrians?
2021-07-27T22:38:23 < mawk> or motorbikers
2021-07-27T22:38:41 < kakium69> BrainDamage: in your nostril?
2021-07-27T22:38:41 < BrainDamage> pedestrians, and the guy was on a motorbike at estimated 100km/h
2021-07-27T22:39:16 < BrainDamage> kakium69: don't remember, i was 4, I just remember the pain and the blood
2021-07-27T22:39:38 < BrainDamage> and the bar where we waited for the ambulance
2021-07-27T22:39:48 < mawk> sipping a cocktail
2021-07-27T22:40:01 < BrainDamage> the scar and the stitches are on the upper part of my nose tho
2021-07-27T22:40:08 < BrainDamage> so if it got in, it got out too
2021-07-27T22:40:19 < kakium69> "take this. it will take the pain away" said bartender
2021-07-27T22:40:28 < mawk> lol
2021-07-27T22:40:41 < mawk> my father was doing above 200km/h on motorbike at night when drunk, a police car thought he was a fleeing thug so they bumped him
2021-07-27T22:40:50 < mawk> he flew for 15 meters, and broke 2 cervical bones
2021-07-27T22:40:56 < kakium69> lucky
2021-07-27T22:40:58 < mawk> but he wasn't paralyzed, miraculously
2021-07-27T22:41:02 < mawk> he still drinks though
2021-07-27T22:41:15 < kakium69> hopefully he doesn't drink and ride
2021-07-27T22:41:17 < mawk> he sued the cops and lost, because he was drunk
2021-07-27T22:41:21 < mawk> yeah I guess he stopped that
2021-07-27T22:42:52 < ventyl> 200km/h and just 15m long flight?
2021-07-27T22:42:57 < kakium69> someone I know overran end of runway on speedday on bike
2021-07-27T22:42:57 < ventyl> that must have been sudden stop
2021-07-27T22:43:24 < mawk> I think there was a wall or a crash barrier or something like that ventyl 
2021-07-27T22:43:27 < mawk> it was on the parisian ring
2021-07-27T22:43:34 < mawk> it's not an open road
2021-07-27T22:43:45 < mawk> what's speedday kakium69 
2021-07-27T22:44:05 < mawk> he broke more than the cervical bones, but they were the most concerning fractures
2021-07-27T22:44:24 < kakium69> he said he only remember suddenly losing the bike under him and crawling at speeds over 200kmh
2021-07-27T22:44:37 < ventyl> I guess he wanted to write speedway
2021-07-27T22:44:41 < mawk> ah
2021-07-27T22:45:00 < kakium69> so they patched him up for months in hospital
2021-07-27T22:45:06 < kakium69> he had full gear on
2021-07-27T22:45:35 < ventyl> at those speeds, the gear only purpose is to keep the resulting ketchup together
2021-07-27T22:45:50 < mawk> lol
2021-07-27T22:46:00 < mawk> minimize friction when gliding on the asphalt at 200km/h also
2021-07-27T22:46:18 < kakium69> but he was crawling on grass and gravel
2021-07-27T22:46:25 < ventyl> local nickname for supersport motorbikes is "yoghurt", because that's all will remain of you once you crash
2021-07-27T22:46:49 < mawk> blood yoghurt
2021-07-27T22:46:58 < ventyl> flavoured one
2021-07-27T22:47:05 < BrainDamage> yog-hurts
2021-07-27T22:47:09 < kakium69> you mean nickname for the rider?
2021-07-27T22:47:16 < qyx> they will fix you with cable ties
2021-07-27T22:47:17 < ventyl> for bike itself
2021-07-27T22:47:25 < Ceafin> (sorry to jump in here, but) anybody use 'platformio.org' with vscode to make their stm32 things with success?
2021-07-27T22:47:34 < qyx> Ceafin: Jan-
2021-07-27T22:47:49 < qyx> oh you asked for success
2021-07-27T22:47:52 < mawk> lol
2021-07-27T22:47:53 < ventyl> :>
2021-07-27T22:47:56 < BrainDamage> given the history here, the succeess was very little
2021-07-27T22:48:09 < qyx> at least she tried
2021-07-27T22:48:17 < BrainDamage> then again, it was likely 50% due to the platform and 50% due to the attitude
2021-07-27T22:48:28 < mawk> lol
2021-07-27T22:48:43 < BrainDamage> you might try your luck, but pay in mind you're hammering a square peg in a round hole
2021-07-27T22:49:49 < Ceafin> hmm... okay, well had a buddy suggest it, and i was thinking about it, but i guess if it's going the same about of head-desk'ing involved than what i'm already doing with the stm32cubeide, then i guess i'll pass
2021-07-27T22:50:05 < bitmask> FUCK
2021-07-27T22:50:21 < bitmask> this water cooler cant handle two peltiers
2021-07-27T22:50:38 < bitmask> still only getting to -22C but the exhaust fan is warmer
2021-07-27T22:50:43 < ds2> square pegs do fit round holes with a sufficently large hammer
2021-07-27T22:51:17 < BrainDamage> ds2: yes, I chose the analogy intentionally, you might get it to work - with pain
2021-07-27T22:52:06 < ventyl> Ceafin: that platformio looks like some abstraction library built on top of stm32cube and other HALs. you'll get additional butthurt, not exchange one for another
2021-07-27T22:53:38 < ventyl> ok, I have to admit, that I don't have slightest clue WTF it is
2021-07-27T22:53:47 < ventyl> everything and nothing I guess
2021-07-27T22:53:55 < mawk> and some build system shit also I think ventyl 
2021-07-27T22:53:58 < mawk> and libs and all that
2021-07-27T22:54:34 < ventyl> fuck it. CMake FTW
2021-07-27T22:54:56 < Ceafin> lulz
2021-07-27T22:55:09 < Steffanx> time for some music mawk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo3CKnCdb6o
2021-07-27T22:57:14 < qyx> any signal pro here? my signal has extremely high amplitude of < 2 Hz components, which I consider okay (a strain gauge), but how to cope with that?
2021-07-27T22:57:26 < qyx> is it common to use log scale for y?
2021-07-27T22:58:04 < qyx> a buddy (consumer of the data) told me they never use log scale
2021-07-27T22:58:15 < mawk> y ?
2021-07-27T22:58:31 < qyx> yes for y
2021-07-27T22:58:43 < ventyl> dependent axis
2021-07-27T22:59:08 < BrainDamage> dB is a log scale ...
2021-07-27T22:59:12 < mawk> if it makes sense to use a log scale then use it
2021-07-27T22:59:14 < mawk> I guess
2021-07-27T22:59:17 < BrainDamage> the log is just implicit
2021-07-27T22:59:45 < mawk> if your data is "multiplicative", meaning that the halfway between y = 100 and y = 1 would be y = 10 for instance
2021-07-27T23:00:32 < mawk> or between 10^20 and 1 be 10^10
2021-07-27T23:00:35 < qyx> I know what log/dB mean, but if I plot the thing in a log scale, the important parts are hidden
2021-07-27T23:00:41 < BrainDamage> the only annoying thing of log scales is that you won't see as well patterns, but you can learn intuition just the same
2021-07-27T23:00:51 < mawk> which important part qyx ? you mean low values?
2021-07-27T23:01:15 < BrainDamage> do you care about the 2Hz components?
2021-07-27T23:01:21 < mawk> you can change the log base so that low values are not hidden
2021-07-27T23:01:22 < BrainDamage> because you can just zero the fft
2021-07-27T23:01:24  * qyx uploads some pictures
2021-07-27T23:02:32 < qyx> this is the spectrum https://bin.jvnv.net/file/yn5MR/Screenshot_2021-07-27_22-02-08.png
2021-07-27T23:03:18 < qyx> zoom im a bit.. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4a6nu/Screenshot_2021-07-27_22-02-53.png
2021-07-27T23:03:53 < qyx> and https://bin.jvnv.net/file/F9cAo/Screenshot_2021-07-27_22-03-39.png
2021-07-27T23:04:07 < qyx> this spectrum is okish
2021-07-27T23:05:24 < qyx> but lets consider https://bin.jvnv.net/file/peKEP/Screenshot_2021-07-27_22-04-43.png
2021-07-27T23:05:37 < qyx> it is very hard to determine any meaningful peaks in this one
2021-07-27T23:06:05 < BrainDamage> you want the peaks on the slope?
2021-07-27T23:06:17 < qyx> and theres a peak hidden somewhere at 0.55 H
2021-07-27T23:06:18 < qyx> Hz
2021-07-27T23:07:00 < BrainDamage> take the moving median of the fft and subtract it
2021-07-27T23:07:29 < BrainDamage> that'll give you only the spikes over the moving floor
2021-07-27T23:07:36 < BrainDamage> adjust the window size as necessary
2021-07-27T23:07:59 < qyx> hm yeah you are right
2021-07-27T23:08:06 < qyx> I did it in the past
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2021-07-27T23:09:51 < qyx> but still, SAFU
2021-07-27T23:10:19 < BrainDamage> can you change the measurement setup?
2021-07-27T23:10:57 < BrainDamage> because that looks like 1/f noise
2021-07-27T23:11:21 < BrainDamage> you can mechanically modulate the signal, then lock-in at a shifted frequency
2021-07-27T23:11:52 < BrainDamage> you can easily get 10+Hz switching freq with a rotary contactor
2021-07-27T23:12:05 < BrainDamage> and unlike transistors, it won't add significant noise
2021-07-27T23:12:40 < BrainDamage> as third option, there's the 'autocommutating auto zeroing', as my prof used to say
2021-07-27T23:12:54 < BrainDamage> which is a fancy word for taking the baseline, and subtract it
2021-07-27T23:13:11 < qyx> the only noise source I think of right now is the input mux
2021-07-27T23:13:22 < qyx> together with sinc3+sinc1 fast settling filter
2021-07-27T23:13:33 < qyx> which may not be that fast as the mux switches channels
2021-07-27T23:13:36 < BrainDamage> the operation is equivalent to convolve two dirac deltas in time, which is a sin in freq
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2021-07-27T23:14:23 < BrainDamage> and the 1st lobe of the sin will act as highpass
2021-07-27T23:14:53 < BrainDamage> and when you do the subtraction in hw, eg by switching a cap, you can do it before the noise's getting injected
2021-07-27T23:16:32 < qyx> I am using a reference circuit for AD7124-8
2021-07-27T23:17:17 < qyx> so I am not quite sure where does the noise comes from
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2021-07-27T23:20:21 < qyx> so this is spectrum of the offset calibration data set with inputs shorted together https://bin.jvnv.net/file/4JZjL/Screenshot_2021-07-27_22-19-48.png
2021-07-27T23:20:36 < qyx> so I suppose the 1/f noise is inherent to the PGA
2021-07-27T23:21:05 < qyx> or Vref, but ref is a low noise LDO
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2021-07-27T23:32:37 < qyx> it looks like AC excitation is the key
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2021-07-27T23:35:22 < qyx> now I understand your recommendation
2021-07-27T23:40:08 < Steffanx> Wasnt blaxter blaxtering about that a while back?
2021-07-27T23:41:03 < qyx> was he?
2021-07-27T23:43:10 < Steffanx> I recall he was. Together with his microphone IC setup audioing it into lunix
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2021-07-28T00:23:54 < Steffanx> Did you enjoy the music, mawk?
2021-07-28T00:35:37 < cluelessperson> ventyl, I'm kinda overloaded
2021-07-28T00:36:58 < ventyl> cluelessperson: ?
2021-07-28T00:38:13 < cluelessperson> ventyl, Looking at STM32Cube and I don't know where to starte
2021-07-28T00:38:22 < ventyl> ah, that's normal I guess
2021-07-28T00:38:33 < cluelessperson> I don't know why an entire IDE is required to just configure some options and convert C++ code to the firmware to flash
2021-07-28T00:38:49 < ventyl> it mostly is not
2021-07-28T00:39:08 < cluelessperson> hm, clock configuration, no idea what to set or how, leaving alone
2021-07-28T00:39:14 < ventyl> I've been able to rip HAL out of IDE and use it standalone, but then it all becomes cumbersome
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2021-07-28T00:41:43 < cluelessperson> I basically expect "write some C++" "compile to binary, maybe using a library to support the chip" "flash"
2021-07-28T00:41:55 < cluelessperson> everything else is pure bloat
2021-07-28T00:42:16 < ventyl> well, this is MCU world, you have to create so called BSP, or some barebone replacement for it
2021-07-28T00:42:47 < ventyl> as even the simplest MCU can be wired in hundreds of ways, each requiring completely different initial configuration
2021-07-28T00:43:22 < cluelessperson> fair, I suppose I'd expect just to have a library/standardized api so you can just use it as intended from your code
2021-07-28T00:43:49 < cluelessperson> ventyl, thanks for hearing me out. :)
2021-07-28T00:43:58 < ventyl> the matter here is, that for example, almost every MCU has two to three different ways of providing clock
2021-07-28T00:44:00 < cluelessperson> So I have Cube open and a STM32 connected and the part number identified
2021-07-28T00:44:08 < cluelessperson> it gives me the option to "generate code", where do I write the code?
2021-07-28T00:44:12 < ventyl> and range of clock speeds it can operate
2021-07-28T00:44:17 < ventyl> it is up to you to configure all this
2021-07-28T00:45:03 < ventyl> TBH I don't know. I've never seen Cube running :)
2021-07-28T00:49:25 < cluelessperson> ventyl, would you be willing to help me jump in more?
2021-07-28T00:50:12 < zyp> cluelessperson, feel free to throw cube in the trash and grab libopencm3 or something else
2021-07-28T00:51:11 < ventyl> cluelessperson: I did as zyp suggests. but from era I was trying to live with Cube, there should be a repository, which integrates Cube with CMake
2021-07-28T00:52:35 < cluelessperson> okay, so Cube code generation output some stuff to the project directory
2021-07-28T00:52:59 < cluelessperson> main.c, stm32wlxx_hal_msp.c, stm32wlxx_it.c, system_stm32wlxx.c
2021-07-28T00:56:20 < ventyl> cluelessperson: well, all I can give you is the repository. but as I am looking around it, it will probably only confuse you more than you are right now
2021-07-28T00:56:40 < ventyl> check example projects, start with something simple as blinky
2021-07-28T00:57:13 < ventyl> it should contain everything ranging from Cube configuration to build system, so you can just run make and there should be a binary produced
2021-07-28T00:57:28 < cluelessperson> ventyl, seems to me the generated code sets a handful of registers.
2021-07-28T00:57:53  * cluelessperson whistles "for hes a jolly good fellow, but replaces all the words with "I don't know what I'm doing, for I don't know what I'm doing""
2021-07-28T00:58:05 < ventyl> it probably sets up GPIO, interrupts and stuff
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2021-07-28T01:23:24 < rapha> hi all
2021-07-28T01:24:25 < rapha> on a 32-pin STM32F303K8 (where Vref+ and VDDA share one physical pin), is it possible to disable the reference voltage generator programmatically, so that the pin may be used to power the analog circuitry externally from a clean power source?
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2021-07-28T02:25:02 < machinehum> What the fuck
2021-07-28T02:25:12 < machinehum> Blue pills have gone up like 10x price
2021-07-28T02:25:32 < machinehum> 30$ CAD what the fuck
2021-07-28T02:25:43 < machinehum> Were those not like 3$ before or some shit?
2021-07-28T02:26:39 < specing> yep
2021-07-28T02:38:55 < machinehum> Well fuck
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2021-07-28T03:08:37 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/I5q3yll.jpeg
2021-07-28T03:10:41 < jadew> https://i.imgur.com/PDWkFb9.jpeg
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2021-07-28T04:22:31 < upgrdman> anyone know what real-world max speeds are for 802.11ac? im getting about 200-250Mbps in an area with lots of networks. not sure if thats normal or maybe my router/device is shit.
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2021-07-28T05:14:48 < upgrdman> is freenode dead yet? they seem to have fucked up their nickserv or at least changes things up
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2021-07-28T14:09:25 < tct> crappy picture time: https://blog.insane.engineer/post/stm32h750dk_stand/
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2021-07-28T14:16:35 < englishman> nice dummy load tct
2021-07-28T14:16:56 < tct> oh that. lol
2021-07-28T14:17:00 < tct> yeah, that was a desperate situation
2021-07-28T14:17:04 < englishman> no kidding
2021-07-28T14:17:11 < tct> thanks :)
2021-07-28T14:17:26 < tct> I have it on my desk ever since xD
2021-07-28T14:18:48 < englishman> i suggest that everyone purchase https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/detail/GPP-Series GPP-4323 4-channel power supply with two channels usable as 50W loads
2021-07-28T14:19:19 < englishman> technically 5-channel if you count the USB
2021-07-28T14:19:23 < zyp> huh, nice
2021-07-28T14:19:25 < tct> that actually seems like a nice low-cost option. I put that down in my notes. Thanks for sharing!
2021-07-28T14:19:31 < tct> didn´t know this existed.
2021-07-28T14:20:11 < englishman> i learned about it because Teledyne LeCroy rebrands it and resells it
2021-07-28T14:20:19 < tct> for 3x the price? :D
2021-07-28T14:20:22 < englishman> 2x
2021-07-28T14:20:28 < tct> damit, wanted to go with 2x first :<
2021-07-28T14:31:57 < zyp> englishman, does the usb port do anything useful, or is it fixed 5V?
2021-07-28T14:32:24 < englishman> can store logs on it or something
2021-07-28T14:32:30 < zyp> ah
2021-07-28T14:34:07 < jpa-> tct: when did you become insane?
2021-07-28T14:34:30 < Steffanx> Since meeting you (virtually).. obviously 
2021-07-28T14:37:21 < tct> jpa-, that´s a question hard to answer. There is a chance that this was the state throughout and realization only came later.
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2021-07-28T14:57:25 < rapha> hi again
2021-07-28T14:57:56 < rapha> does anybody know if a STM32F303K8 can be programmed to not output Vref on the Vref/VDDA pin, so that it can be used for powering the analog circuitry externally?
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2021-07-28T15:00:24 < zyp> that's a part without dedicated vref, just vdda, right?
2021-07-28T15:00:38 < rapha> zyp: at least the 32pin package that's on the nucleo board, yes
2021-07-28T15:00:56 < rapha> (only the bga package has them physically separated)
2021-07-28T15:01:09 < zyp> vdda is a power input and must always be powered regardless of whether you're using the ADC or not
2021-07-28T15:01:12 < rapha> datasheet calls the pin "Vref+/Vdda"
2021-07-28T15:01:31 < rapha> zyp: sure, but i'd like to use a different power source for it than for vdd.
2021-07-28T15:01:37 < rapha> noise reasons...
2021-07-28T15:01:41 < zyp> yeah, that means vref is internally connected to vdda
2021-07-28T15:01:50 < zyp> different how?
2021-07-28T15:02:03 < rapha> a battery instead of the 5V from the laptop's USB
2021-07-28T15:02:14 < rapha> and the nucleo board does have a solder bridge for that purpose
2021-07-28T15:02:26 < rapha> after removing said solder bridge, you can measure 2.5V on the pin
2021-07-28T15:02:49 < rapha> as you may understand i'm reluctant to just feed an external voltage into it if there's something coming out of it
2021-07-28T15:03:04 < zyp> uh, I don't think that's how it's supposed to work, at all :)
2021-07-28T15:03:13 < rapha> humm, okay
2021-07-28T15:03:17 < zyp> the 2.5V you're measuring is probably leakage from ESD diodes
2021-07-28T15:03:21 < rapha> oh!
2021-07-28T15:03:37 < zyp> but anyway, let me look up something for you
2021-07-28T15:03:40 < rapha> okay, so nothing to be reprogrammed ... i can just hook up my battery and be fine?
2021-07-28T15:03:56  * rapha waits
2021-07-28T15:03:59 < zyp> not necessarily, no
2021-07-28T15:04:21 < zyp> but let me find a reference rather than giving you something I half remember
2021-07-28T15:04:24 < rapha> okay
2021-07-28T15:04:46 < rapha> Ctrl-F'd the heck out of the datasheet but couldn't find anything definitive so far :/
2021-07-28T15:06:32 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32f303k8.pdf page 15, 3.4.1
2021-07-28T15:06:37 < jpa-> rapha: you can connect another voltage as long as it is within the specs of VDDA
2021-07-28T15:06:57 < zyp> requirements are VDDA >= VDD and VDDA must be provided first
2021-07-28T15:07:04 < rapha> oh sweet
2021-07-28T15:07:06 < rapha> thank you both!!!
2021-07-28T15:07:11 < jpa-> and <= 3.6V IIRC
2021-07-28T15:07:16 < rapha> oh, wait ... "be provided first"?
2021-07-28T15:07:20 < zyp> yes
2021-07-28T15:07:23 < rapha> how does one assure that other than manually?
2021-07-28T15:07:32 < zyp> supply sequencing
2021-07-28T15:07:38  * rapha googles
2021-07-28T15:08:35 < rapha> ah, seems to require dedicated hardware
2021-07-28T15:08:52 < jpa-> easy way is to connect the enable pin of the VDD regulator to the VDDA voltage
2021-07-28T15:08:56 < zyp> 3.4.2 also states that the power on circuit only monitors VDD
2021-07-28T15:09:09 < zyp> which explains why :)
2021-07-28T15:09:41 < zyp> all power supplies needs to be stable when reset is deasserted, and POR only checks when VDD is stable
2021-07-28T15:10:54 < zyp> IIRC some other stm32 datasheets actually states explicitly that VDDA and VDD needs to come from the same supply rail, but F3 seems to be less strict in that regard
2021-07-28T15:11:16  * rapha mumbles something about stable monovibrator something something
2021-07-28T15:11:46 < zyp> I'm also not convinced VDDA from battery and VDD from USB is all that useful
2021-07-28T15:12:29 < zyp> you need both for anything to work, which means your device won't work only on battery power, meaning the battery is pointless
2021-07-28T15:12:33 < rapha> what would be your preferred way of ensuring a clean analog supply in a lab setting?
2021-07-28T15:12:38 < jpa-> some other STM32s also monitor both VDD and VDDA for POR
2021-07-28T15:12:46 < zyp> filtering
2021-07-28T15:12:48 < jpa-> i remember having NRST being externally low when VDDA was missing
2021-07-28T15:13:09 < rapha> isn't trying to filter USB properly kind of like fighting windmills?
2021-07-28T15:13:21 < zyp> no?
2021-07-28T15:13:24 < jpa-> you won't be feeding 5V to a STM32 directly anyway
2021-07-28T15:13:30 < jpa-> just use a regulator with good PSRR
2021-07-28T15:13:34 < rapha> i mean, it _is_ a nucleo board
2021-07-28T15:14:13 < jpa-> besides, for a 12-bit ADC, you don't really need that clean supply
2021-07-28T15:15:11 < jpa-> if you are aiming for DC accuracy, go with a low noise regulator; if you are aiming for minimizing AC noise, a simple RLC filter is fine
2021-07-28T15:16:27 < jpa-> if you want to get fancy, pick low-microphonic capacitor for the filter - otherwise you'll get a spike every time you drop the board
2021-07-28T15:22:23 < rapha> hmm
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2021-07-28T15:23:18 < rapha> okay let's say i take the 3V3 that comes out of the nucleo's built-in regulator and want to filter that and feed it into vdda (hoping it'll be on-line early enough, but let's disregard that for now) ... how do i know _how_ to filter it?
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2021-07-28T15:25:25 < jpa-> rapha: one way is to first do it unfiltered, measure what you get and see what kind & level of noise you have
2021-07-28T15:26:01 < jpa-> another way is to consider what kind of noise would be most annoying to have in your data, and filter that out, whether it exists or not
2021-07-28T15:27:05 < jpa-> typically you would consider the frequency and amplitude of the noise, sometimes also the distribution (for example, switching on a fluorescent lamp nearby often creates a large spike, but it occurs very rarely)
2021-07-28T15:41:37 < rapha> hmm, found some websites that help with designing filters ... will have to play with that for a while, both virtually and then breadboardually
2021-07-28T15:43:12 < rapha> wondering how well-designed something like this little nucleo board can be considered. like, for example, have they paid proper attention to their ground planes and how/where analog and digital ground are connected, etc?
2021-07-28T15:46:32 < ventyl> rapha: I just can tell you that I have had my nucleo died suddenly after about two months of use
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2021-07-28T15:48:27 < rapha> ventyl: well, that could be anything. touching it while not properly grounded when you first got it, for example.
2021-07-28T15:49:01 < ventyl> MCU works, it seems as if there is some short circuit somewhere
2021-07-28T15:49:12 < ventyl> it drains excessive amount of current from USB
2021-07-28T15:51:53 < jpa-> rapha: nucleos in general are not designed to maximize analog performance, but on the other hand STM32F303 does not have any particularly sensitive analog peripherals anyway
2021-07-28T15:52:19 < jpa-> i wouldn't bother with separate analog / digital grounds for a 12-bit ADC
2021-07-28T15:53:44 < rapha> there's just this noise which is (a) around half the magnitude of the signal and (b) definitely within the range of what can be represented with 12 bits without trouble. so it makes sense to try and get rid of it.
2021-07-28T15:55:09 < jpa-> rapha: what is the actual magnitude, in ADC units or in millivolts?
2021-07-28T15:55:33 < jpa-> and what does the 3.3V power rail look on a scope, and what does the input signal look on scope
2021-07-28T15:56:13 < rapha> problem is, i'm trying to help a buddy here, and he has his very own ideas of how to do this. for example, he uses this small 12V lead-acid battery to power everything that's not powered by USB and then he has an LM317 behind that battery followed up by an LD1117. neither of these evoke particular levels of trust in me when it comes to noise performance. and also, with that bridge there (between VDD and VDDA)
2021-07-28T15:56:15 < rapha> i'm wondering why the two supplies (3V3 out of the 1117 and 3V3 out of the nucleo's on-board regulator) are not frying one another. but it's so difficult to convince him of any changes.
2021-07-28T15:57:48 < jpa-> making random changes is just going to get random results, measure first
2021-07-28T15:57:56 < rapha> also he doesn't have a scope, he has this desktop PC based (PCI??) A/D converter thingy ... supposedly 24 bit or so, but i've just never worked with something like that, so i don't have much trust in it either. rn i'm at work; i'll post you the screenshots he showed me once i get home.
2021-07-28T15:59:55 < jpa-> why do you even bother?
2021-07-28T16:00:52 < rapha> hmm, good question. my gf keeps asking me that, too.
2021-07-28T16:01:19 < rapha> i think i'm feeling bad for him because this thing has been going on for more than a year now.
2021-07-28T16:01:52 < rapha> and he's trying to measure microvibrations using the pickup assembly of a DVD player. it *is* an interesting project, so i do have some curiosity, as well.
2021-07-28T16:02:03 < ventyl> well either he learns something on his own, or no amount of external aid will help
2021-07-28T16:02:58 < qyx> never try to measure vibrations, it is voodoo
2021-07-28T16:03:09 < rapha> also i was the one who mentioned that he might want to try an stm32 instead of an atmega328, whose ADC resolution is just not good enough for this. but then i use microcontrollers to do fun things with SPI sensors and LEDs, which is completely different from _this_.
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2021-07-28T17:01:05 < bitmask> good mornin
2021-07-28T17:01:30 < bitmask> and incase i dont see you, good afternoon, good evening, and goodnight
2021-07-28T17:02:43 < mawk> or other timezones
2021-07-28T17:15:24 < tct> damit, octave seems SO MUCH slower than matlab
2021-07-28T17:15:27 < tct> any opinions on that?
2021-07-28T17:15:46 < mawk> I use sage because I'm a rebellious guy
2021-07-28T17:16:01 < mawk> sage uses octave though I think, for some stuff
2021-07-28T17:16:29 < tct> tell me more
2021-07-28T17:16:42 < mawk> https://www.sagemath.org/fr/
2021-07-28T17:16:56 < tct> gotta have that /fr/ in there :p
2021-07-28T17:17:08 < mawk> lol
2021-07-28T17:17:11 < mawk> of course
2021-07-28T17:17:29 < mawk> ah no it doesn't use octave
2021-07-28T17:18:02 < tct> oh, so this is a geogebra/jupyter type of deal?
2021-07-28T17:20:47 < mawk> it includes jupyter support yes
2021-07-28T17:20:50 < mawk> but it's not only that
2021-07-28T17:21:03 < mawk> it's a full matlab alternative
2021-07-28T17:21:18 < mawk> it's a modified python interpreter
2021-07-28T17:21:23 < mawk> you can do shit like f(x) = 42*x
2021-07-28T17:27:25 < tct> > python
2021-07-28T17:27:40 < tct> so only needs like 93 MB of binaries.
2021-07-28T17:31:58 < mawk> lol tct 
2021-07-28T17:32:01 < mawk> sage is like 1GiB
2021-07-28T17:32:29 < tct> I will certainly have a look at it. I like the self-hosted approach.
2021-07-28T17:32:39 < tct> let´s see whether they have some demos.
2021-07-28T17:32:52 < mawk> the fact it's in a jupyter thing makes it pretty usable
2021-07-28T17:54:39 < qyx> wtf is jupyter, I have heard that word in the past
2021-07-28T17:55:00 < mawk> it's a thing to run python as if you were in mathematica qyx 
2021-07-28T17:55:08 < mawk> using cells of code you can reorder and execute independantly
2021-07-28T17:55:12 < mawk> and all variables are shared between all cells
2021-07-28T17:55:26 < mawk> you can also add markdown cells to write text and add maths as latex
2021-07-28T17:55:34 < mawk> and you can see graph outputs from matplotlib or other graphing stuff
2021-07-28T17:55:50 < mawk> you also have magic commands from jupyter to browse directories or execute scripts or whatever, that start with %
2021-07-28T17:57:48 < englishman> in my experience it is an exercise in tedium and restarting stuff over and over
2021-07-28T17:58:00 < mawk> it looks like this qyx https://serveur.io/Synthetic_logs.html
2021-07-28T17:58:04 < mawk> that's the html output from a notebook
2021-07-28T17:58:09 < mawk> that's because technology hates you englishman 
2021-07-28T17:58:13 < mawk> it never happens to anyone else
2021-07-28T17:58:20 < mawk> not at least since it's named Jupyter and not IPython anymore 
2021-07-28T17:58:26 < mawk> and got a ton of new attention
2021-07-28T17:58:29 < mawk> especially from google
2021-07-28T17:58:33 < englishman> xilinx too
2021-07-28T17:58:50 < englishman> http://www.pynq.io/
2021-07-28T17:58:59 < englishman> this actually worked quite well
2021-07-28T18:00:17 < mawk> ah nice
2021-07-28T18:03:33 < sauce> jupyter is really cool and makes me want to build more general purpose interactive CI systems
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2021-07-28T19:03:23 < bitmask> oh boy oh boy oh boy
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2021-07-28T19:03:48 < bitmask> stm'ing for the first time in year(s)?
2021-07-28T19:04:35 < bitmask> what do i do :P
2021-07-28T19:04:50 < Steffanx> Enjoy this wonderful renewed adventure 
2021-07-28T19:05:38 < bitmask> ty sir
2021-07-28T19:06:19 < Steffanx> Will you use the cube?
2021-07-28T19:06:42 < tct> I just used the cube the first time since it´s original release
2021-07-28T19:06:50 < tct> lots of stuff going on in there
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2021-07-28T19:09:44 < Steffanx> Not even truestudio?
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2021-07-28T19:16:14 < bitmask> yea im gonna try the cube
2021-07-28T19:22:07 < srk> #decide mawk | notmawk
2021-07-28T19:22:08 < xnand> notmawk
2021-07-28T19:22:19 < mawk> :(
2021-07-28T19:22:23 < mawk> what did I do
2021-07-28T19:22:36 < mawk> #decide a | a
2021-07-28T19:22:37 < xnand> a
2021-07-28T19:22:38 < srk> you failed miserably
2021-07-28T19:22:39 < mawk> #decide a | 
2021-07-28T19:22:39 < xnand> a 
2021-07-28T19:22:42 < mawk> #decide a | 
2021-07-28T19:22:42 < xnand> a 
2021-07-28T19:22:43 < srk> #decide
2021-07-28T19:22:43 < xnand> `#decide a | b | c` to use the best AI out there to decide for you
2021-07-28T19:23:18 < mawk> #decide #decide | #decidz
2021-07-28T19:23:19 < xnand> #decide 
2021-07-28T19:24:18 < Mangy_Dog> steffanx no need to worry about me accidently posting in the other channel any more :D
2021-07-28T19:34:14 < Steffanx> I wouldnt know. I left freenode too
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2021-07-28T20:04:59 < sauce> my favourite part of the cube is creating a project and being greeted with multiple modals complaining about http errors
2021-07-28T20:08:41 < Steffanx> Not in my cube. 
2021-07-28T20:13:33 < ventyl> hah, I am an idiot
2021-07-28T20:13:41 < ventyl> once again I didn't bother about ground connection
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2021-07-28T21:46:45 < karlp> baseus making werid funky shit again: https://www.banggood.com/Baseus-CRDDSQ-01-5V-0_7MPa-Car-Washer-High-Pressure-Cleaner-Waterproof-Auto-Spray-Electric-Washing-Machine-p-1793944.html
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2021-07-28T22:03:14 < Steffanx> Reviews are surprisingly good 
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2021-07-28T23:07:41 < kakium69> hello 69ers
2021-07-28T23:08:02 < ventyl> ehlo
2021-07-28T23:08:33 < mawk> who are you 69ing kakium69 ?
2021-07-28T23:08:52 < mawk> Steffann: reviews are surprisingly BANGgood
2021-07-28T23:08:55 < mawk> right???
2021-07-28T23:09:06 < kakium69> mawk: myself
2021-07-28T23:15:14 < Steffann> Sexy times?
2021-07-28T23:15:27 < kakium69> hmm
2021-07-28T23:15:59 < kakium69> maybe netflix and no chill though
2021-07-28T23:17:17 < mawk> why no chill
2021-07-28T23:17:21 < mawk> what happened to poor kakium69 
2021-07-28T23:18:43 < kakium69> netflix and chill = code for sexy times
2021-07-28T23:19:50 < ventyl> net, flux and solder = PCBs for nerd times
2021-07-28T23:20:02 < mawk> ah kakium69 
2021-07-28T23:21:29 < kakium69> and very old code from 2015 or so
2021-07-28T23:22:53 < Steffann> more old please. Find your oldes codes
2021-07-28T23:23:09 < kakium69> :o
2021-07-28T23:23:42 < Steffann> *oldest
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2021-07-28T23:26:42 < kakium69> "care to join me for a night tea and chill in my accomodations?" *in posh brittish accent
2021-07-28T23:27:06 < Steffanx> tea?
2021-07-28T23:27:30 < kakium69> idk
2021-07-28T23:28:11 < kakium69> I went back to times when tea was the newest craze
2021-07-28T23:31:03 < kakium69> interestings
2021-07-28T23:31:28 < kakium69> Dutch East India Company brought tea to europe
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2021-07-28T23:49:58 < steve__> and the US is a sovereign state partly because tea was taxed too high
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2021-07-28T23:54:18 < kakium69> they were like f these tea prices we independent now!
2021-07-28T23:54:20 < kakium69> ?
2021-07-28T23:54:21 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-28T23:57:34 < steve__> imagine how pissed they'd be if there was income tax
2021-07-28T23:58:45 < aandrew> https://dolosgroup.io/blog/2021/7/9/from-stolen-laptop-to-inside-the-company-network
--- Day changed Thu Jul 29 2021
2021-07-29T00:01:22 < kakium69> bitlocker :D
2021-07-29T00:03:52 < PaulFertser> aandrew: cool thanks!
2021-07-29T00:04:26 < karlp> the "cmos" chip is kinda cute though...
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2021-07-29T00:55:46 < Steffanx> Interesting indeed aandrew 
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2021-07-29T00:56:54 < karlp> and a public salea c++ extension! 
2021-07-29T01:03:55 < kakium69> https://i.redd.it/yh7mqqlyfrn11.jpg
2021-07-29T01:03:58 < englishman> so are Intel chipsets with built in TPM so far impermeable?
2021-07-29T01:04:36 < englishman> great link aandrew
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2021-07-29T02:22:02 < aandrew> kakium69: wow I'm tagged in that picture
2021-07-29T02:22:07 < aandrew> universe brain
2021-07-29T02:22:40 < aandrew> I think it's FUCKING LOL that the goddamned TPM chip transmits sensitive info over an unencrypted SPI bus
2021-07-29T02:24:14 < ventyl> well, if you think of TPM as crypto-oracle, then there will always be some weak channel
2021-07-29T02:24:23 < ventyl> unless you encrypt all your digital communication
2021-07-29T02:25:03 < ventyl> that encryption key will most probably end up somewhere in RAM, you can go and hunt for it on DDR bus
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2021-07-29T02:28:37 < PaulFertser> ventyl: or with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack
2021-07-29T02:30:27 < PaulFertser> Which is much more practical than sniffing the DDR bus.
2021-07-29T02:32:18 < ventyl> PaulFertser: in this case I assume that it is not possible to boot anything else due to properly implemented secureboot
2021-07-29T02:32:32 < ventyl> so an attacker has to sniff some glue
2021-07-29T02:32:36 < PaulFertser> ventyl: physically moving DRAM sticks is possible though
2021-07-29T02:32:58 < ventyl> well, if they are not soldered (as this is a modern laptop)
2021-07-29T02:33:10 < PaulFertser> aandrew: the right way to use TPM: https://trmm.net/Heads_threat_model/
2021-07-29T02:33:29 < PaulFertser> ventyl: in some modern laptops even SSDs are soldered :/
2021-07-29T02:34:21 < ventyl> hm, soldered RAM actually *is* quasi-safe as it might be BGA with many pins inaccessible
2021-07-29T02:34:39 < ventyl> so it would be almost impossible to sniff it in the field
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2021-07-29T02:38:41 < PaulFertser> Talking about secure boot, how does one sign UEFI itself? What makes it impossible to boot another UEFI image?
2021-07-29T02:38:58 < steve__> article says the TPM is "tamper resistant".  If hooking up 6 probes is not considered tampering I don't know what is.
2021-07-29T02:39:33 < PaulFertser> The TPM hasn't revealed the secrets that it's not supposed to reveal.
2021-07-29T02:40:39 < steve__> o nvm it would system level tamper detection to protect the SPI
2021-07-29T02:40:59 < PaulFertser> You can do crypto operations inside TPM with the keys that can't be extracted from it.
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2021-07-29T03:42:49 < Streaker> the TPM chip has a list of allowed keys and will only boot an image that's signed with an allowed key
2021-07-29T03:42:53 < Streaker> that's how I understood it
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2021-07-29T09:26:31 < ventyl> TPM won't boot anything, early boot code, usually baked into chipset will try to check cryptohash with TPM in some way. most probably the early boot has to stuff some part of UEFI BIOS through TPM, which will calculate cryptohash and then compare it with stored value
2021-07-29T09:26:51 < ventyl> then early boot decides what to do
2021-07-29T09:27:13 < ventyl> this is then done later with every following stage building up the trust chain
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2021-07-29T10:46:34 < PaulFertser> ventyl: so you got a new Intel x86 machine. How do you make sure UEFI will only ever boot in secure mode even if we assume the attacker can change flash IC that stores UEFI+ME shit?
2021-07-29T11:00:41 < ventyl> PaulFertser: there is early boot baked and immutable in whatever-bridge part of chipset
2021-07-29T11:01:01 < ventyl> as CPU can't access SPI flash content directly
2021-07-29T11:01:06 < PaulFertser> ventyl: ok, but how do you make it check the signature?
2021-07-29T11:01:52 < ventyl> bootROM reads early stage of flash bootloader and as it reads binary, it passes it through TPM to calculate cryptohash I guess
2021-07-29T11:02:19 < ventyl> if TPM says, it fits, then it jumps into flash bootloader. if not, then while(1)
2021-07-29T11:14:00 < PaulFertser> ventyl: but we know for a fact that UEFI can be replaced, e.g. with coreboot which is not signed.
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2021-07-29T11:44:49 < ventyl> PaulFertser: bootROM is not part of UEFI. it sits in chipset and cannot be altered
2021-07-29T11:45:10 < PaulFertser> ventyl: ok, so how do you make it check UEFI?
2021-07-29T11:45:25 < PaulFertser> (or anything else stored on the flash connected to Intel PCH)
2021-07-29T11:45:47 < ventyl> well, CPU executes bootROM, which is immutable (therefore you trust that it wasn't altered)
2021-07-29T11:46:00 < ventyl> bootROM checks early stage of UEFI (or maybe all of it, dunno)
2021-07-29T11:46:29 < PaulFertser> ventyl: but in fact it doesn't. I can write anything to UEFI and CPU executes it.
2021-07-29T11:46:33 < ventyl> therefore you trust that UEFI was not altered, because bootROM which you trust has checked, that it matches
2021-07-29T11:47:03 < ventyl> that would make whole TPM completely useless
2021-07-29T11:48:14 < PaulFertser> ventyl: so you got a new Intel machine. How do you make it check UEFI? Or are you sure it does check it by default? This doesn't match my experience.
2021-07-29T11:49:18 < ventyl> well, first, I didn't have new Intel machine since like... 2004 and second, I am not sure if this is turned on by default.
2021-07-29T11:53:36 < ventyl> it is also possible, that UEFI simply is not checked on load. instead access to SPI interface allowing flashing it is protected by some means
2021-07-29T11:53:51 < ventyl> then you assume that nobody has hooked up SPI and flashed it from outside
2021-07-29T11:53:56 < ventyl> which is... meh
2021-07-29T12:08:08 < PaulFertser> Our server boards have sockets for SOIC16 flash, changing it doesn't even require any tools :)
2021-07-29T12:10:31 < PaulFertser> So I'm kinda interested in the topic.
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2021-07-29T13:27:32 < Steffanx> Wb Laurenceb  
2021-07-29T13:28:19 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-07-29T13:29:14 < Laurenceb> I didnt realise there is support for stm32 lunix from st now
2021-07-29T13:29:39 < Laurenceb> official lunix on f4 discovery with support for all the peripherals
2021-07-29T13:30:33 < Laurenceb> I was looking at uboot, it looks feasible to abuse nvic to have real time code running on the same processor
2021-07-29T13:30:53 < Laurenceb> but lunix low level stuff uses a lot of interrupts
2021-07-29T13:31:12 < ventyl> f4 and linux?
2021-07-29T13:35:16 < ventyl> shit, mmu-less linux still lives
2021-07-29T13:44:35 < qyx> yeah I've tried that
2021-07-29T13:44:43 < qyx> F7 + sdram + spi flash
2021-07-29T13:45:02 < qyx> it mostly worked except it wasn't able to run any shell script
2021-07-29T13:45:28 < qyx> including init
2021-07-29T13:48:38 < Laurenceb> that sucks
2021-07-29T13:49:01 < Laurenceb> I was wondering if uboot could be modified to load code into CCM and run it independently using NVIC
2021-07-29T13:49:10 < Laurenceb> looks possible I think
2021-07-29T13:52:05 < ventyl> it seems, that uClinux is nowhere near the mainstream
2021-07-29T13:52:11 < ventyl> more like technical curiosity
2021-07-29T13:55:22 < Laurenceb> uClinux is literally dead
2021-07-29T13:55:34 < Laurenceb> but mmuless lunix is now part of mail kernel
2021-07-29T13:55:50 < Laurenceb> st-micro github has the sores for stm32f4 and f7
2021-07-29T13:57:30 < Laurenceb> I wonder how long you can take to service lunix ethernet interrupt
2021-07-29T14:01:34 < englishman> https://alexskra.com/blog/the-mermaid-is-taking-over-google-search-in-norway/
2021-07-29T14:05:14 < Laurenceb> >using google search
2021-07-29T14:06:30 < Laurenceb> not quite as cancerous as google maps but its getting close at this point
2021-07-29T14:08:31 < englishman> who unbanned you
2021-07-29T14:08:55 < ventyl> lol :)
2021-07-29T14:09:30 < ventyl> Laurenceb: interesting, I recall that decades or two ago Linus rejected attempts to mainline mmuless operation
2021-07-29T14:09:54 < ventyl> with statement such as "if you want to do crazy stuff, do it. but not in mainline linux"
2021-07-29T14:10:56 < qyx> buildroot has f4 and f7 support
2021-07-29T14:11:00 < qyx> iirc
2021-07-29T14:15:45 < Laurenceb> heh looks like Linus got cucked
2021-07-29T14:16:20 < Laurenceb> google maps: all spam, no contours or footpaths
2021-07-29T14:17:09 < ventyl> fuck google
2021-07-29T14:17:10 < ventyl> use OSM
2021-07-29T14:18:35 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-29T14:18:46 < Laurenceb> or just victorian maps for 1870
2021-07-29T14:18:50 < Laurenceb> *from
2021-07-29T14:19:02 < Laurenceb> >contours >footpaths >in 1870
2021-07-29T14:21:12 < Laurenceb> google maps at this point is basically >buy shit >burgers >crap shop >road in the wrong place
2021-07-29T14:42:41 < Steffanx> I never had issues with that
2021-07-29T14:42:49 < Steffanx> Must be some britbong issue
2021-07-29T14:45:25 < ventyl> here, commercial maps have one problem. we are small country, therefore there is only one supplier of vector map data
2021-07-29T14:46:09 < ventyl> back, when iGo meant something, it split into mother-daughter pair of companies, because other player on the market (Tom Tom?) didn't want to buy data from company which supplies data to competition
2021-07-29T14:46:53 < ventyl> so now, mostly all online map services contain same geographical data. the only difference is in which service includes which release of map data and therefore what errors are in there
2021-07-29T14:47:44 < ventyl> once, around 10 years ago, there was some problem around ronding, thus vectors were not touching each other (similar to how apple maps looked like). each and every online service presented that bug sooner or later
2021-07-29T14:48:10 < ventyl> you wouldn't be able to get to nearest grocery store using those maps
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2021-07-29T17:48:52 < Laurenceb> til pppd can take a script as the "device"
2021-07-29T17:48:54 < Laurenceb> too cool
2021-07-29T17:49:02 < Laurenceb> ip over literally anything
2021-07-29T17:49:32 < ventyl> ip over beer?
2021-07-29T17:49:41 < ventyl> that would be transverse version of beer over ip
2021-07-29T17:49:57 < Laurenceb> well I was looking for a way to do ip over rs485
2021-07-29T17:50:36 < Laurenceb> looks like a script to swap the ppp address field for proper hdlc addresses would work, along with ethernet style "carrier sense" and random backoff
2021-07-29T17:52:24 < Laurenceb> although for full ethernet replacement it would need a broadcast address
2021-07-29T17:52:45 < Laurenceb> but that would be impossible with pppd :(
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2021-07-29T17:54:04 < ventyl> in p2p, there is no broadcast
2021-07-29T17:54:12 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-29T17:54:15 < Laurenceb> no way to do dhcp
2021-07-29T17:55:15 < Laurenceb> actually maybe you could have some sort of haxored system with two ppp emulated devices mapped to single rs485 port via the low level script(s)
2021-07-29T17:56:03 < Laurenceb> wait this is all stupid
2021-07-29T17:56:20 < Laurenceb> each rs485 device would only ever want to talk to the default gateway anyway
2021-07-29T17:56:53 < Laurenceb> so that could have a fixed hdlc address and run a dhcp server to assign ip addresses
2021-07-29T17:57:10 < ventyl> once you have ethernet link running, it should be possible to bridge it with regular ethernet network somehow
2021-07-29T17:57:14 < ventyl> and get broadcasts
2021-07-29T17:57:41 < Laurenceb> you can run vlan over ppp
2021-07-29T17:58:08 < Laurenceb> but that doesnt give you hardware broadcast over rs485
2021-07-29T17:59:41 < Laurenceb> but anyway I dont think its needed, as you only get ~250addresses anyway with hdlc, so they would have to be set with dip switches/whatever, so the gateway could be hardcoded to 0x01 or whatever
2021-07-29T18:01:07 < Laurenceb> aiui the gateway could have a dhcp server and assign addresses, but handling that might get a bit complex
2021-07-29T18:01:41 < Laurenceb> I think the gateway could just spawn a new ppp link for each connecting device
2021-07-29T18:03:12 < ventyl> do you need edge to edge communication? like device-behind-rs485 to device-behind-rs485 ?
2021-07-29T18:03:55 < Laurenceb> we have an rs485 network, and I was trying to come up with a way to run ip over it
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2021-07-29T18:04:24 < bitmask> hi hi hi
2021-07-29T18:04:33 < Laurenceb> keeek I'm just trying to design the gateway side...
2021-07-29T18:04:46 < Laurenceb> it could use ppp over udp via localhost
2021-07-29T18:08:45 < Laurenceb> multiple instances of pppd, one per connected device, connecting via a script that relays data over localhost using udp, to a single interface script that talks to the rs485 device
2021-07-29T18:08:48 < Laurenceb> that might work
2021-07-29T18:09:04 < bitmask> hmm, where is my stlink, ive never used it
2021-07-29T18:11:00 < Laurenceb> actually as the rs485 interface script would spawn the pppd instances, it could just talk to them directly, simples
2021-07-29T18:11:24 < Laurenceb> keeek wut https://nakkaya.com/2012/08/20/poor-man-s-vpn-using-ppp-over-ssh/#:~:text=Poor%20man%27s%20VPN%20using%20PPP%20over%20SSH%20PPP,a%20modem%2C%20but%20any%20SSH%20creates%20secure%20ttys.
2021-07-29T18:11:29 < Laurenceb> even moar crazy
2021-07-29T18:12:54 < ventyl> wtf
2021-07-29T18:13:55 < bitmask> poor mans vpn is vpn
2021-07-29T18:15:48 < bitmask> wtf, how am i out of female barrel jacks
2021-07-29T18:17:08 < Laurenceb> ventyl: how to get internets in china
2021-07-29T18:17:18 < ventyl> how am I supposed to know that?
2021-07-29T18:23:55 < Laurenceb> https://linux-ppp.vger.kernel.narkive.com/Xcw4wgUF/ppp-over-rs-485
2021-07-29T18:24:05 < Laurenceb> wtf lunix emailerz
2021-07-29T18:24:26 < Laurenceb> this shit is easily possible with wrapper code around the rs485 hardware
2021-07-29T18:34:31 < Laurenceb> https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/interface/transceivers/MAX22500E.html
2021-07-29T18:34:33 < Laurenceb> damn
2021-07-29T18:34:52 < Laurenceb> ethernet btfo'd
2021-07-29T18:36:48 < Laurenceb>  <50mW mean power consumption
2021-07-29T18:38:52 < Laurenceb> wait they lied lol, graph shown up to 540mW @100Mbps
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2021-07-29T18:48:29 < englishman> is ppp over rs485 your solution for how to get internet in China?
2021-07-29T18:49:29 < englishman> fyi upgrdman is the one you want to ask for that 
2021-07-29T18:54:07 < Laurenceb> lolno
2021-07-29T18:54:10 < Laurenceb> ppp over ssh
2021-07-29T18:56:56 < Steffanx> Dekar is good with china internet
2021-07-29T19:02:36 < Steffanx> https://github.com/EliasOenal/verzweiflung
2021-07-29T19:06:04 < octorian> Beyond the usual chip shortage situation right now, its amazing just how much STM loves to jack up the price (if you're ordering in quantities of less than 10000) the moment you start adding any half-reasonable amount of flash to one of their parts.
2021-07-29T19:06:32 < octorian> Meanwhile, all the up-and-coming competitors seem to basically start with an order of magnitude more flash, like its no big deal, and charge a cheaper price to begin with.
2021-07-29T19:11:40 < octorian> Also wish the L0 wasn't the only series that actually includes on-board EEPROM.
2021-07-29T19:12:27 < specing> octorian: sounds exactly like the AVR - stm32 situation years ago
2021-07-29T19:12:44 < specing> except this time stm32 is mainstream and they dont have to lift a finger?
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2021-07-29T19:16:27 < octorian> Currently working on something that uses the STM32L052K8, and my code just barely fits within the 64KB of flash. But a lot of that is the sort of baseline overhead that's a price you pay once. So the rate of code growth is really small.
2021-07-29T19:17:12 < octorian> I can make it work, but I'd really like to move up to a 128KB part for a few reasons...  Built-in DFU bootloader and/or enough flash to install my own bootloader (for end-user firmware updates), and maybe also enough headroom to add FreeRTOS to the mix.
2021-07-29T19:18:02 < specing> your code is phat
2021-07-29T19:18:10 < octorian> Though at non-10k prices, the STM32L072 is a big price jump for what it is.  Though I doubt I can get one before December anyways.
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2021-07-29T19:37:23 < Laurenceb> crapillary refill was ~62k iirc
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2021-07-29T19:40:31  * Laurenceb is confused how that ppp over ssh code works
2021-07-29T19:40:47 < Laurenceb> is it possible to have a blocking file stream between two processes?
2021-07-29T19:41:14 < jpa-> Laurenceb: named pipe
2021-07-29T19:41:30 < Laurenceb> I dont see how come pppd cant transmit faster than ssh can cope with
2021-07-29T19:41:40 < Laurenceb> jpa-: thats a fifo isnt it?
2021-07-29T19:41:47 < Laurenceb> so it can store data?
2021-07-29T19:41:55 < jpa-> yeah, some 4kB
2021-07-29T19:42:14 < Laurenceb> ooh wai there is an option in pppd
2021-07-29T19:42:31 < Laurenceb> to turn on blocking io to daughter io process
2021-07-29T19:42:33 < Laurenceb> wtf
2021-07-29T19:42:58 < Laurenceb> how do they do that in lunix?
2021-07-29T19:43:21 < Laurenceb> set FIFO size to 0?
2021-07-29T19:45:10 < jpa-> your ramblings are right within spec, common sense rejection ratio >= 80dB
2021-07-29T19:45:22 < Laurenceb> lulwut
2021-07-29T19:46:09 < specing> Hey laurencer
2021-07-29T19:46:57 < Laurenceb> I think F_SETPIPE_SZ is the answer to my question
2021-07-29T19:47:38 < Laurenceb> or if I was exceptionally bored I could read pppd sores
2021-07-29T19:54:12 < bitmask> musou black arrives on saturday, what to paint 
2021-07-29T19:56:55 < bitmask> shit, i didnt label all my programming pins
2021-07-29T19:57:01 < bitmask> and altium wont open :P
2021-07-29T19:57:19 < bitmask> gotta do it the hard way
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2021-07-29T20:06:10 < bitmask> dude, wtf
2021-07-29T20:06:21 < bitmask> this board is gonna blow up as soon as i apply power
2021-07-29T20:08:04 < aandrew> heh
2021-07-29T20:15:14 < bitmask> i dont see any bridges but continuity tester beeps with like all pins to each other, is that normal?
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2021-07-29T20:20:35 < bitmask> 0.14 ohms between power in + and -
2021-07-29T20:22:19 < PaulFertser> We had a board where some vias were shorted to internal layers.
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2021-07-29T20:50:21 < bitmask> im gonna apply power and watch it blow
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2021-07-29T21:04:17 < bitmask> yea it aint workin :P
2021-07-29T21:04:44 < bitmask> grrr
2021-07-29T21:04:56 < bitmask> oh maybe i have another board populated
2021-07-29T21:12:05 < bitmask> oh nice i have 4 more, watch em all be fux0red
2021-07-29T21:13:33 < bitmask> wow i really fucked up the design on this one, they are all the same
2021-07-29T21:13:59 < bitmask> guess i shouldnt have soldered 5 full boards at once :P
2021-07-29T21:17:28 < bitmask> wtf, every pad is connected
2021-07-29T21:17:42 < bitmask> theres no copper removed around the pads
2021-07-29T21:30:32 < bitmask> fuck it was my file
2021-07-29T21:30:32 < bitmask> how did that happen
2021-07-29T21:41:53 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-07-29T21:48:00 < bitmask> its just the bottom layer, i might be able to xacto it
2021-07-29T21:48:20 < bitmask> this is why:  https://i.imgur.com/EFTX7JT.png
2021-07-29T21:48:50 < bitmask> not sure what happened with that spacing, must have fucked up a rule or something
2021-07-29T21:53:02 < aandrew> I had a board like that -- there was no pullback on the inner layers on the vias so when the vias were plated, they shorted. it was actaully a decent short too, I couldn't clear it with some high current 
2021-07-29T21:53:43 < aandrew> my solution was a 3/8" drill bit to drill out the vias and a LOT of the surrounding baord. :-) Thankfully there wasn't anything else useful in that area
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2021-07-29T22:00:12 < bitmask> damn, i fixed most of it but the trim pots are in the way of two that i need to cut, i only soldered the trim pots on the one board at least, just gotta switch to another board
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2021-07-29T22:35:33 < bitmask> well it aint pretty but its sliced up
2021-07-29T22:35:40 < bitmask> lets try power again
2021-07-29T22:39:14 < bitmask> there we go
2021-07-29T22:46:02 < bitmask> to program you just need 3.3V/GND/SWCLK/SWDIO right?
2021-07-29T22:50:11 < PaulFertser> bitmask: right
2021-07-29T22:50:56 < bitmask> good, one thing i didnt screw up :/
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2021-07-30T00:30:59 < karlp> heh, here's the generic one, after the baseus fancy one the other day: https://www.banggood.com/24V-5000mAh-Cordless-High-Pressure-Washer-Portable-Car-Cleaner-Water-Guns-Car-Washing-Maching-W-or-None-or-1-or-2-Battery-p-1860682.html
2021-07-30T00:36:36 < zyp> kärcher also makes something similar
2021-07-30T00:44:17 < mawk> zyp: \int_0^+oo x/(1+e^x) dx
2021-07-30T00:44:20 < mawk> I think
2021-07-30T00:44:24 < mawk> maybe swap x and e^x
2021-07-30T00:44:47 < zyp> huh?
2021-07-30T00:45:17 < zyp> use syntax that makes sense to me :)
2021-07-30T02:12:36 < mawk> zyp: \int_0^+oo x/(1+e^x) dx
2021-07-30T02:13:38 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210730011319009.png
2021-07-30T02:13:39 < mawk> this
2021-07-30T02:19:06 < MrMobius> lol STM32CubeIDE deletes all of my code if i change a pin configuration in the tool
2021-07-30T02:19:09 < MrMobius> what in the actual fuck
2021-07-30T02:19:36 < mawk> you use it wrong MrMobius 
2021-07-30T02:19:40 < mawk> probably
2021-07-30T02:19:43 < MrMobius> i hope so
2021-07-30T02:19:48 < mawk> have you need seen the USER CODE BEGIN and USER CODE END tags?
2021-07-30T02:19:53 < mawk> you need to put your code between them
2021-07-30T02:19:57 < mawk> otherwise, bye bye code
2021-07-30T02:20:03 < mawk> have you not seen*
2021-07-30T02:21:58 < MrMobius> how retarded
2021-07-30T02:22:10 < MrMobius> i deleted all of those since im not in kindergarten
2021-07-30T02:22:21 < mawk> ??
2021-07-30T02:22:21 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-30T02:22:26 < mawk> put them back
2021-07-30T02:22:32 < mawk> or just configure cube otherwise
2021-07-30T02:22:43 < mawk> tell cube to make separate .c .h stuff and one .c per peripheral and so on
2021-07-30T02:23:04 < MrMobius> i cant believe what an awful idea this is
2021-07-30T02:23:08 < mawk> then put just calls to your own code in OTHER .c files in the cube-generated .c file
2021-07-30T02:23:15 < mawk> if you really can't bother to repsect the cube tags
2021-07-30T02:23:22 < mawk> why is it an awful idea?
2021-07-30T02:23:25 < mawk> it's actually a great idea
2021-07-30T02:23:34 < MrMobius> i stopped using their shitware in 2015 and thought they might have unstupided themselves
2021-07-30T02:23:38 < mawk> having as many .c as possible means you can not link with functions you don't need
2021-07-30T02:24:01 < MrMobius> ya multiple c files is ifne. its dumb that they put tags like that
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2021-07-30T06:17:08 < bitmask> what are these msp versions of the initialization functions, i wrote all my stuff and it turns out all of it is pre-done in the msp versions
2021-07-30T06:18:47 < bitmask> son of a bitch, what a waste of time
2021-07-30T06:18:51 < bitmask> why is it all hidden away
2021-07-30T06:20:52 < bitmask> i miss stdperiph
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2021-07-30T09:19:36 < zyp> mawk, pi^2 / 12
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2021-07-30T09:55:44 < mawk> yes zyp 
2021-07-30T09:55:51 < mawk> I hope you didn't cheat and go to wolframalpha
2021-07-30T09:56:03 < zyp> of course I did
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2021-07-30T10:19:23 < mawk> :(
2021-07-30T10:19:51 < zyp> :)
2021-07-30T10:19:57 < Steffanx> You know whats most awful about the cube, mawk.. its shit. 
2021-07-30T10:20:46 < Steffanx> This code deletion is just fucked up. Have a bug in one of the libs fixed and they will happily undo your fix
2021-07-30T10:21:24 < Steffanx> How hard for them would it be to merge it (on request)
2021-07-30T10:21:37 < Steffanx> Even mplab has this feature
2021-07-30T10:22:43 < jpa-> or just have the code in git and design it as a reasonable library without needing a ton of code generation
2021-07-30T10:23:45 < Steffanx> It even regenerates the middleware files, which is fucked up
2021-07-30T10:25:24 < Steffanx> Thats just working around how shitty the cube's code generation is, jpa-  :P
2021-07-30T10:30:21 < Steffanx> I recall there is an option to have it make backups before purging your changes, but im not sure
2021-07-30T10:32:46 < ventyl> if cube is done by same people who did STAPI, no wonder
2021-07-30T10:32:50 < jpa-> i assume one would have the results in version control anyway, so   git add --patch   and disgard what you don't want to change?
2021-07-30T10:33:23 < zyp> that's what I did when I worked on the stuff using ti halcogen
2021-07-30T10:33:51 < zyp> anytime I needed to make a change and regenerate, I just looked through the git diff and discarded the changes I didn't want
2021-07-30T10:35:33 < ventyl> long term, that's unbearable
2021-07-30T10:35:46 < zyp> depends how often you need to make changes
2021-07-30T10:35:58 < zyp> and how many patches you've got
2021-07-30T10:36:01 < ventyl> IME it always will be more often, than you thought it will be
2021-07-30T10:36:11 < zyp> idk
2021-07-30T10:36:31 < zyp> for me it was the easiest way to solve it
2021-07-30T10:37:35 < jpa-> for one work project, i had the original, vendor provided stuff in one branch (no code generation in that project though), and my modifications in main branch; then i just went to the original branch to extract an updated vendor package and merged stuff as normal
2021-07-30T10:38:20 < zyp> yeah, that's also a way to solve it
2021-07-30T10:38:43 < zyp> one branch to track original code that gets merged into a modified branch
2021-07-30T10:39:23 < Steffanx> But you are a overly experienced wonderful engineer jpa- . Not a beginner like many people that use the cube and get trapped 
2021-07-30T10:39:36 < Steffanx> an*
2021-07-30T10:40:41 < jpa-> the road to becoming an accomplished cynical lazy engineer goes through many traps
2021-07-30T10:41:10 < Steffanx> Are you close?
2021-07-30T10:42:02 < jpa-> yes, only need to work on the "accomplished" part
2021-07-30T10:42:40 < zyp> I got lazy down for sure, not sure about the others
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2021-07-30T11:20:32 < Steffanx> I better stop using wireguard.. mawk is a contributor 
2021-07-30T11:38:10 < mawk> :(
2021-07-30T11:44:47 < Steffanx> 😋
2021-07-30T11:45:35 < Steffanx> Is it vacation time for mawk soon?
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2021-07-30T13:48:47 < mawk> not yet
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2021-07-30T14:09:51 < jly> any of you bastids got a match?
2021-07-30T14:19:34 < mawk> a match for what jly 
2021-07-30T14:19:53 < jly> idk
2021-07-30T14:20:01 < ventyl> for making a fire
2021-07-30T14:20:01 < jly> is there still an offtopic channel
2021-07-30T14:20:49 < jly> or did dr blaxter die from covid
2021-07-30T14:27:20 < Steffanx> Blaxter was banned
2021-07-30T14:27:27 < Steffanx> But he's allowed back in 
2021-07-30T14:27:36 < Steffanx> Welcome jly. How are the days?
2021-07-30T14:27:46 < jly> good mate
2021-07-30T14:27:51 < Steffanx> You like the new duds?
2021-07-30T14:27:56 < jly> very good
2021-07-30T14:28:00 < jly> jolly does too
2021-07-30T14:29:54 < Steffanx> Yeah, she approved 
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2021-07-30T14:36:53 < englishman> thinking of mawk https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4207222/why-does-turn-turn-turn-equal-241217-524881
2021-07-30T14:39:12 < zyp> if I google «10 mil in mm» I get 0.254
2021-07-30T14:39:20 < zyp> if I google «10 mil to mm» I get 100 000 000
2021-07-30T14:39:50 < mawk> lol englishman 
2021-07-30T14:41:15 < jly> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/vUwt7fFr/10mil_to_mm.png
2021-07-30T14:41:21 < tct> any solar people in here? 
2021-07-30T14:41:56 < tct> I´m being asked by some random dude who has two solar panels, apparently different ones, same nominal voltage but different nominal current whether he can directly connect them in parallel or series and I am honestly not sure what to tell him
2021-07-30T14:42:46 < zyp> sure, why not
2021-07-30T14:42:59 < tct> I feel like there could be problems in directly having solar panels in parallel - they are basically like diodes, no?
2021-07-30T14:43:06 < tct> and you wouldn´t just hook up diodes in parallel either
2021-07-30T14:43:23 < zyp> same nominal voltage sounds like same number of cells in series, so you'd put them in parallel
2021-07-30T14:43:50 < zyp> why not?
2021-07-30T14:44:13 < tct> run-away effect of one diode getting a bit more load, then getting hotter, therefore getting more load, then getting hotter, ...
2021-07-30T14:45:01 < zyp> yeah, but you're not putting power into PV, you're drawing it out
2021-07-30T14:46:17 < zyp> I believe panels are rated to withstand a shorted output, so you shouldn't even be able to overload it :p
2021-07-30T14:47:15 < tct> yeah, that makes sense
2021-07-30T14:47:23 < tct> well, I am asking because I don´t know and I wanted to understand so... ;-)
2021-07-30T14:48:13 < zyp> the issue with hooking two dissimilar panels together is that they might have different maximum power points, which means that the power you can get out will be less than the sum of what each individual panel could do with an independent MPPT
2021-07-30T14:51:10 < zyp> maybe the easiest way is to just test each individually first, then test both series and parallel and see which yields the most power
2021-07-30T14:53:59 < tct> yeah, before I posted here I already asked the guy whether those are ´bare panels´ or panels with electronics on them. he told me that they have some electronics on each panel and that they are sold as solar panels for charging power banks (some goal-zero yeti style stuff). I figured those would be MPPT trackers
2021-07-30T14:54:20 < tct> there is no harm in having those individual MPPT´s hooked together, eh?
2021-07-30T14:55:52 < zyp> ohh, like small shit with USB outputs?
2021-07-30T14:56:16 < zyp> well idk then
2021-07-30T14:56:33 < zyp> depends how well the two regulators behave when you connect the outputs together
2021-07-30T15:01:50 < Streaker> if one panel has a higher voltage than the other, then the lower voltage one is reverse-biased and no current will flow through it
2021-07-30T15:01:57 < Streaker> so that should be safe, no?
2021-07-30T15:07:21 < tct> thanks for the info, zyp 
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2021-07-30T15:23:21 < e3ef13f4ff44> hello
2021-07-30T15:23:39 < e3ef13f4ff44> i can't start timer in one pulse mode from uart dma tx cplt interrupt
2021-07-30T15:23:53 < e3ef13f4ff44> it looks like it started properly, but it doesn't work
2021-07-30T15:24:08 < mawk> does it work when you start it from regular code?
2021-07-30T15:24:11 < mawk> before trying in an irq
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2021-07-30T15:26:54 < e3ef13f4ff44> yes, it works normally
2021-07-30T15:27:51 < e3ef13f4ff44> i fire the dma from the same timer
2021-07-30T15:28:04 < e3ef13f4ff44> then wait for dma complete and start the timer again
2021-07-30T15:31:11 < e3ef13f4ff44> but it doesn't start :c
2021-07-30T15:36:03 < e3ef13f4ff44> any ideas?
2021-07-30T15:37:44 < Steffanx> Youre using HAL I guess?
2021-07-30T15:38:11 < e3ef13f4ff44> cubemx hal
2021-07-30T15:38:19 < e3ef13f4ff44> it worked 3-4 years ago :D
2021-07-30T15:38:51 < Steffanx> Yeah, in that case I would step through the time start code to see if it does the right thing. 
2021-07-30T15:39:03 < Steffanx> It returns no error.
2021-07-30T15:39:05 < Steffanx> ?
2021-07-30T15:39:05 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-30T15:39:15 < Steffanx> ?thanks xnand
2021-07-30T15:39:15 < xnand> I don't know about thanks
2021-07-30T15:40:17 < e3ef13f4ff44> Steffanx: no error, but i'll try again
2021-07-30T15:40:20 < e3ef13f4ff44> wait
2021-07-30T15:43:29 < e3ef13f4ff44> HAL_TIM_STATE_BUSY
2021-07-30T15:44:12 < e3ef13f4ff44> that's why it isn't starting
2021-07-30T15:44:17 < e3ef13f4ff44> but why it's busy?
2021-07-30T15:44:47 < e3ef13f4ff44> i fire dma at period elapsed interrupt
2021-07-30T15:45:18 < e3ef13f4ff44> how can i wait until timer isn't busy?
2021-07-30T15:45:35 < e3ef13f4ff44> just while loop?
2021-07-30T15:49:52 < e3ef13f4ff44> nope, still not working
2021-07-30T15:50:04 < e3ef13f4ff44> it hangs on     while (htim1.State != HAL_TIM_STATE_READY);
2021-07-30T15:51:09 < ventyl> I'd expect that this needs to either have interrupt serviced or some handler to be ran
2021-07-30T15:51:42 < ventyl> or is hrtim1 mapped directly to timer register?
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2021-07-30T16:32:39 < Steffanx> I bet it works when you stop it before you start it, e3ef13f4ff44  
2021-07-30T16:33:11 < Steffanx> But not sure what you're doing so.. if thats really ago idea...
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2021-07-30T17:54:19 < bitmask> theres no need for a spi nvic if you are using dma right?
2021-07-30T17:58:57 < jpa-> usually no, but depends on your use case
2021-07-30T17:59:05 < jpa-> if you want some SPI interrupt, you'll have to enable it
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2021-07-30T18:03:14 < bitmask> k, i dont think i'll need it but i'll see how it plays out
2021-07-30T18:04:39 < bitmask> and i ranted last night about these msp init functions autogenerated by cube. I wrote all that stuff myself before I found that. I'm guessing the msp functions get called automatically?
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2021-07-30T18:44:45 < Steffanx> It generated the calls bitmask  ;)
2021-07-30T18:56:41 < bitmask> trueeeee :)
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2021-07-30T19:33:06 < bitmask> all fixed, 0 errors 
2021-07-30T19:33:11 < bitmask> im sure it will work right away too
2021-07-30T19:35:02 < Steffanx> Ofcourse 
2021-07-30T19:35:09 < Steffanx> I believe in you bitmask 
2021-07-30T19:35:17 < bitmask> awww, arent you delusional
2021-07-30T19:35:50 < Steffanx> 👯🏻‍♀️👯🏽‍♀️👯‍♀️
2021-07-30T19:36:24 < bitmask> haha
2021-07-30T19:36:35 < bitmask> that answers that
2021-07-30T19:43:56 < mawk> Steffanx https://youtu.be/JzHeX_0DNS0
2021-07-30T19:44:01 < mawk> it's a dutch guy
2021-07-30T19:44:05 < mawk> daniel dekker
2021-07-30T19:49:04 < ventyl> nah
2021-07-30T19:49:10 < ventyl> interwebs are cruel
2021-07-30T19:50:54 < Steffanx> Thats not your usual boom-boom mawk
2021-07-30T19:51:57 < mawk> no Steffanx are you disappointed?
2021-07-30T19:52:16 < mawk> my autocorrect was left on french, it corrected Steffanx to stérile
2021-07-30T19:52:22 < Steffanx> No its better than your usual boom boom
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2021-07-30T20:23:01 -!- Guest83 is now known as Laurenceb
2021-07-30T20:23:07 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@12.9259349,100.8731548,3a,26.3y,346.09h,87.76t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMeI1w5tcHfLihJxQpDzuxtfAH84CqIGAbWlSo8!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMeI1w5tcHfLihJxQpDzuxtfAH84CqIGAbWlSo8%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya136.43198-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
2021-07-30T20:23:11 < Laurenceb> found ur dad
2021-07-30T20:23:49 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@12.9259349,100.8731548,3a,15y,327.19h,92.04t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMeI1w5tcHfLihJxQpDzuxtfAH84CqIGAbWlSo8!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMeI1w5tcHfLihJxQpDzuxtfAH84CqIGAbWlSo8%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya136.43198-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
2021-07-30T20:23:54 < Laurenceb> kekking hard
2021-07-30T20:26:15 < Laurenceb> le sex offender face
2021-07-30T20:27:15 < Steffanx> Not even funny.
2021-07-30T20:29:03 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@47.180.47.55] has joined ##stm32
2021-07-30T20:29:03 < Laurenceb> ^its Steffanx in the streetview confirmed
2021-07-30T20:29:11 < Steffanx> Whokay
2021-07-30T20:33:37 < Steffanx> British humor can be good, but yours is truly bad Laurenceb. Sure you're british.
2021-07-30T20:33:39 < Steffanx> ?
2021-07-30T20:33:39 < xnand> ?<factoid> to query, ?<factoid>=value to set, ?<factoid>-forget to unset
2021-07-30T20:34:32 < BrainDamage> it's not like just because it's british it makes it british humour
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2021-07-30T20:39:31 < Steffanx> Sure.
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2021-07-30T20:42:47 < Steffanx> Nevermind. Its better to ignore this 
2021-07-30T20:47:55 < sauce> what a waste of a -b
2021-07-30T20:50:52 < PaulFertser> Better tell us about your recent $job developments please Laurenceb 
2021-07-30T20:51:04 < Laurenceb> working on hyperloop
2021-07-30T20:51:35 < PaulFertser> Oh well, what about the interesting design decisions, prototyping results etc?
2021-07-30T20:52:41 < Laurenceb> heh
2021-07-30T20:52:58 < Laurenceb> somehow we are going to make a traction controller or something
2021-07-30T20:53:05 < Laurenceb> serious lack of management input atm
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2021-07-30T22:31:35 < Laurenceb> http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/02/worlds-pyramids-globally-beaming-energy.html
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2021-07-30T23:10:49 < bitmask> ugh alright, two new st links ordered
2021-07-30T23:11:09 < qyx> sad story for those poor souls ever configuring their timer prescalers to 32
2021-07-30T23:11:17 < qyx> I can feel your pain
2021-07-30T23:11:55  * qyx resampling his data
2021-07-30T23:12:44 < Steffanx> lol what are you referring to qyx? What did i miss?
2021-07-30T23:13:33 < qyx> you have to set the prescaler to 31 in order to divide by 32
2021-07-30T23:17:02 < Steffanx> ah lol
2021-07-30T23:17:10 < Steffanx> poor soul indeed
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2021-07-30T23:39:03 < kakium69> hello 69ers
2021-07-30T23:55:16 < zyp> bitmask, should have ordered some orbtraces instead
--- Day changed Sat Jul 31 2021
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2021-07-31T00:17:48 < Steffanx> Where to order?
2021-07-31T00:22:46 < zyp> not ready yet
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2021-07-31T00:37:22 < Steffanx> Hah, too bad
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2021-07-31T05:27:04 < R2COM> so i started to use Okular instead of Foxit for pdf reading seems to be really faster
2021-07-31T05:28:00 < R2COM> its funny that switching between different virtual desktops each running Okular opening different pdf is faster than waiting for redraw operation when clicking other tab within Foxit or Adobe
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2021-07-31T06:29:02 < sauce> its almost like i repeatedly suggested it for a reason
2021-07-31T06:31:29 < Helmholtz> R2COM, have you checked Zathura?
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2021-07-31T13:46:47 < BrainDamage> zathura has a fatal flaw, it doesn't handle documents with uneven sizes
2021-07-31T13:47:20 < BrainDamage> the largest page sets the margin and the zoom and the rest end up with a giant background frame to scroll
2021-07-31T13:48:27 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-07-31T13:48:30 < BrainDamage> I pointed this to the devs years ago, but still wasn't fixed after 4 years
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2021-07-31T14:15:31 < specing> BrainDamage: use mupdf
2021-07-31T14:15:44 < BrainDamage> i already have a working solution
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2021-07-31T14:22:38 -!- Guest83 is now known as Laurenceb
2021-07-31T14:22:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.facebook.com/SecureState-162797820400207/photos/pcb.1764135556933084/1764130716933568/
2021-07-31T14:23:40 < kakium69> hello Laurenceb
2021-07-31T14:23:44 < kakium69> that is rather funny
2021-07-31T14:23:48 < kakium69> keep it up
2021-07-31T14:26:04 < ventyl> facelol link
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2021-07-31T15:46:05 < Laurenceb> anyone here used watchdog on rpi?
2021-07-31T15:46:16  * Laurenceb wants to have it reset from a userspace script
2021-07-31T15:46:29 < Laurenceb> I cant see how to do this, it seems too "smart"
2021-07-31T15:48:41 < Laurenceb> it triggers off kernel load and stuff
2021-07-31T15:54:01 < BrainDamage> wut
2021-07-31T15:54:18 < BrainDamage> you can literally just write to a device file with a timer
2021-07-31T15:54:37 < BrainDamage> https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/07/30/1030329/machine-learning-ai-failed-covid-hospital-diagnosis-pandemic/
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2021-07-31T16:27:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you want to ping watchdog from a userspace script or to reset the board?
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2021-07-31T17:12:51 < Guest83> PaulFertser: ping from userspace
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2021-07-31T17:13:43 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: then just keep /dev/watchdog open and write to it every now and then, e.g. while true; do echo 1; sleep 10; done > /dev/watchdog
2021-07-31T17:13:55 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-31T17:16:45 < Laurenceb> https://vk5tu.livejournal.com/35721.html
2021-07-31T17:17:06 < Laurenceb> ^so the "watchdog daemon" periodically writes to /dev/watchdog  ?
2021-07-31T17:17:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: hm, I checked the kernel code, I see once you started pinging it you can close the device file every time. Unless you're pinging it with "V" which is a magic character that says next close should stop watchdog.
2021-07-31T17:18:00 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: of course it does
2021-07-31T17:18:07 < Laurenceb> ok I get it now
2021-07-31T17:18:17 < Laurenceb> I thought it configured the actual watchdog lol
2021-07-31T17:18:58 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: it can do that with ioctl. But you can only configure the timeout in seconds (within hardware limits) and set "nowayout" flag.
2021-07-31T17:19:11 < Laurenceb> yeah
2021-07-31T17:19:13 < Laurenceb> >The nowayout parameter determines what happens when the /dev/watchdog device is closed: is a heartbeat still expected or not? A value of 0 says that no further heart beats are expected
2021-07-31T17:19:30 < PaulFertser> There's also "pretimeout" etc. You shouldn't bother with that.
2021-07-31T17:19:44 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: once you enable nowayout you can't stop pinging watchdog.
2021-07-31T17:19:48 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-31T17:19:51 < Laurenceb> >Normally we would put the module name into /etc/modules, but what if starting the system takes longer than the fourteen seconds available
2021-07-31T17:20:07 < Laurenceb> I'm confused, does that apply even if nowayout isnt enabled?
2021-07-31T17:20:23 < Laurenceb> because /dev/watchdog wont be opened at boot time
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2021-07-31T17:26:33 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: does bootloader enable the watchdog and doesn't disable it before starting Linux?
2021-07-31T17:26:50 < Laurenceb> I dont know
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2021-07-31T17:27:08 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: where is that quote from?
2021-07-31T17:27:16 < Laurenceb> looks like my RPi4 has /dev/watchdog without any config being added
2021-07-31T17:27:18 < Laurenceb> that link
2021-07-31T17:27:24 < Laurenceb> https://vk5tu.livejournal.com/35721.html
2021-07-31T17:27:37 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: don't trust random articles, especially by those using arduino or raspberrypi.
2021-07-31T17:27:44 < Laurenceb> yeah lol
2021-07-31T17:27:50 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: of course any normal system has /dev/watchdog without any additional config.
2021-07-31T17:27:59 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-31T17:29:31 < Laurenceb> I'm confused, it looks like watchdog is enabled on the RPi
2021-07-31T17:29:44 < Laurenceb> but I dont see where the hardware timeout is configured/enabled
2021-07-31T17:30:41 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: sudo lsof | grep /dev/watchdog
2021-07-31T17:31:58 < Laurenceb> dont have lsof installed
2021-07-31T17:33:13 < Laurenceb> ah there is  wdctl
2021-07-31T17:33:43 < Laurenceb> ok its enabled by default on RPi4 it seems
2021-07-31T17:33:51 < Laurenceb> with 15s timeout
2021-07-31T17:33:58 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: and what's feeding it?
2021-07-31T17:34:19 < Laurenceb> dunno... something is pinging it at 1Hz
2021-07-31T17:34:59 < Steffanx> isnt there something in the /boot/config.txt about the watchdog?
2021-07-31T17:35:14 < Laurenceb> Steffanx: apparently not on RPi >=3
2021-07-31T17:35:18 < Steffanx> ah
2021-07-31T17:35:29 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: when you have no lsof you can do for i in /proc/*/fd/; do ls -l $i | grep watchdog && echo $i; don
2021-07-31T17:35:46 < PaulFertser> e
2021-07-31T17:37:07 < Laurenceb> it didnt pick anything up
2021-07-31T17:37:11 < Laurenceb> weird
2021-07-31T17:37:39 < Laurenceb> I just tried a loop to look at watchdog counter using wdctl, its def being pinged at 1Hz
2021-07-31T17:37:51 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: then something opens and closes it.
2021-07-31T17:38:02 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: if watchdog daemon is not running probably it's systemd.
2021-07-31T17:38:04 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-31T17:38:23 < Laurenceb> is there a way to view systemd services?
2021-07-31T17:38:33 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: systemctl
2021-07-31T17:38:40 < PaulFertser> Shows them all 
2021-07-31T17:38:47 < Laurenceb> wew, complex interface
2021-07-31T17:38:59 < PaulFertser> systemctl | grep -i watchdog
2021-07-31T17:41:44 < Laurenceb> nothing
2021-07-31T17:42:35 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: checked RuntimeWatchdogSec systemd config option?
2021-07-31T17:43:10 < Laurenceb> its commented out with a #  
2021-07-31T17:46:04 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: that's weird, so no PID has the file descriptor opened are you sure?
2021-07-31T17:46:12 < Laurenceb> https://pastebin.com/wVhnVb9w
2021-07-31T17:46:19 < Laurenceb> I cant see one with it open, no
2021-07-31T17:47:13 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: you can use auditctl to add a rule to get a log entry to see when something opens watchdog
2021-07-31T17:47:26 < Laurenceb> ok
2021-07-31T18:05:57 < Laurenceb>  root        59  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        S    Jul21   0:00 [watchdogd]
2021-07-31T18:05:59 < Laurenceb> found it
2021-07-31T18:07:46 < Laurenceb> clever16:05:56
2021-07-31T18:07:46 < Laurenceb> > its internal to the kernel, and isnt launched by anything
2021-07-31T18:08:02 < Laurenceb> no wonder I could find the config
2021-07-31T18:10:11 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: it's not something that feeds it. 
2021-07-31T18:10:37 < PaulFertser> It's just a kernel thread that handles the hardware.
2021-07-31T18:10:49 < Laurenceb> hmm
2021-07-31T18:12:08 < Laurenceb> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/watchdog/watchdog_dev.c
2021-07-31T18:12:12 < Laurenceb> I'm not so sure
2021-07-31T18:12:23 < Laurenceb>  Alternatively, if userspace has not opened the watchdog
2021-07-31T18:12:24 < Laurenceb> 	 * device, we take care of feeding the watchdog if it is
2021-07-31T18:12:24 < Laurenceb> 	 * running.
2021-07-31T18:14:29 < PaulFertser> If it's started in the first place.
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2021-07-31T18:45:22 < Laurenceb> I think raspberry are using https://github.com/troglobit/watchdogd
2021-07-31T18:46:30 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: but if it's not running then it's not really used.
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2021-07-31T19:02:29 < qyx> fellow octavers
2021-07-31T19:02:33 < Laurenceb> [875412.572269] watchdog: watchdog0: watchdog did not stop!
2021-07-31T19:02:34 < qyx> I have a 400 MB dataset
2021-07-31T19:02:38 < Laurenceb> looks like something broken
2021-07-31T19:02:58 < qyx> how to load the thing faster into octave? is there any faster loading format than csv?
2021-07-31T19:04:11 < qyx> aha save -binary
2021-07-31T19:27:29 < Laurenceb> wew it works
2021-07-31T19:27:51 < Laurenceb> just open /dev/watchdog with some c code and write 1 every <15s
2021-07-31T19:28:03 < Laurenceb> bash was being weird, but who cares about bash
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2021-07-31T19:52:05 < BrainDamage> I told you it's literally just writing to a device file with a timer
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2021-07-31T21:20:47 < Guest83> incelephant rogers
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--- Log closed Sun Aug 01 00:00:08 2021