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2025-06-01T01:21:32 < ventyl> jpa-: you asked about that JLink issue with STM32H7, didn't you? how did I solve it. I didn't. It makes fun of me. 
2025-06-01T01:21:48 < ventyl> jpa-: like, now it doesn't work with OpenOCD, but does with PyOCD
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--- Day changed Mon Jun 02 2025
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2025-06-02T01:12:33 < nomorekaki> night crew hello
2025-06-02T01:24:33 < jbo> hello o/
2025-06-02T01:24:37  * jbo reports for duty
2025-06-02T01:24:56 < nomorekaki> good job jbo
2025-06-02T01:25:15 < nomorekaki> have you been innovating?
2025-06-02T01:25:40 < tpbsd> jbo, this is my latest Forth dev system for STM32: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc/files/plang2-lmt01-4.png/download
2025-06-02T01:26:09 < jbo> nomorekaki, not as much as I should have
2025-06-02T01:26:24  * nomorekaki *nods*
2025-06-02T01:26:37 < jbo> tpbsd, currently disappointing people: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287204
2025-06-02T01:26:37 < tpbsd> the middle left window is the programmers source, the top right is the actual source after transforms that uploaded to the Forth mcu
2025-06-02T01:27:23 < tpbsd> the right window is the SWD Forth interactive real time user terminal to the target
2025-06-02T01:27:52 < tpbsd> and the bottom window is a Quickfix window for fast navigation around the project
2025-06-02T01:28:22 < jbo> I'm sorry, I am not bald enough to know anything about forth :p
2025-06-02T01:29:34 < tpbsd> thats cool, it's only used by 42 people in the world, the whole point of my pic is the cool IDE :)
2025-06-02T01:30:52 < nomorekaki> why you use such obscure thing?
2025-06-02T01:32:53 < tpbsd> same reason people use micropython of course, but Forth is 30x faster than that
2025-06-02T01:33:26 < tpbsd> and it fits in 20KB of flash, unlike Micropython which needs about 300KB flash
2025-06-02T01:34:55 < jbo> 300kb what
2025-06-02T01:35:37 < tpbsd> jbo, whats the minimum inage size for MicroPython on stm32 ?
2025-06-02T01:36:20 < jbo> no idea
2025-06-02T01:36:23 < jbo> I don't python on stm32
2025-06-02T01:36:29 < tpbsd> Ive tested all the alternatives, uLisp, eLua, CircuitPython ... they all need around 300KB of flash for their image
2025-06-02T01:52:14 < nomorekaki> write in C
2025-06-02T01:53:17 < tpbsd> why would I want to do that ?
2025-06-02T01:53:25 < nomorekaki> if you are running interpreter it doesnt matter how much resources is it requires
2025-06-02T01:54:04 < nomorekaki> at least in terms of speed
2025-06-02T01:54:31 < nomorekaki> flash amount 20K vs 300K definitely narrows options
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2025-06-02T01:55:07 < Laurenceb_> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo
2025-06-02T01:55:10 < Laurenceb_> >ardupilot
2025-06-02T01:55:15 < nomorekaki> lurencer
2025-06-02T01:55:24 < Laurenceb_> I fully expect a pro strike back using pixhawk
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2025-06-02T01:56:45 < Laurenceb_> >most devistating attack by far used tarduinos
2025-06-02T01:56:55 < Laurenceb_> the absolute state of cruise missiles
2025-06-02T01:57:57 < nomorekaki> how is hypertrain?
2025-06-02T01:58:16 < nomorekaki> still steel conduits melting from currents?
2025-06-02T01:58:19 < Laurenceb_> there is a relaunch meeting next week with new management
2025-06-02T01:58:22 < Laurenceb_> heh no
2025-06-02T01:58:33 < Laurenceb_> previous managers are now all sacked
2025-06-02T01:58:39 < nomorekaki> too woke?
2025-06-02T01:58:48 < Laurenceb_> lolno
2025-06-02T01:59:23 < Laurenceb_> they were stealing money / not following health and safety law / paying junior staff to harrass the board on facebook
2025-06-02T01:59:48 < nomorekaki> stealing moneys
2025-06-02T01:59:49 < nomorekaki> how?
2025-06-02T02:00:25 < Laurenceb_> hiring "consultants" who hten paid them a portion of the wage back
2025-06-02T02:00:38 < nomorekaki> oh that's how consulting works
2025-06-02T02:01:41 < nomorekaki> how about H&S? accidents?
2025-06-02T02:02:59 < Laurenceb_> nothing serious, but no risk assesments and some dangerous kit
2025-06-02T02:04:46 < nomorekaki> how many hyperbosses went down?
2025-06-02T02:05:06 < nomorekaki> how big is the total hypercrew?
2025-06-02T02:05:43 < Laurenceb_> 4 bosses, there are about 30 staff total
2025-06-02T02:06:13 < nomorekaki> 30 staff designs the whole train?
2025-06-02T02:06:24 < nomorekaki> drives + shell?
2025-06-02T02:06:29 < nomorekaki> cars*
2025-06-02T02:06:37 < Laurenceb_> nah, they do all sorts of stuff, atm we do CCTV repairs
2025-06-02T02:07:03 < nomorekaki> did it use standard track?
2025-06-02T02:07:10 < Laurenceb_> we don't design any serious body shell etc for prototype stuff
2025-06-02T02:07:12 < Laurenceb_> yes
2025-06-02T02:08:15 < nomorekaki> tell me again how is the energy for propulsion transported to the train?
2025-06-02T02:08:45 < Laurenceb_> it comes from the rails - they are at high voltage DC
2025-06-02T02:09:07 < nomorekaki> ye I remember correctly
2025-06-02T02:09:36 < nomorekaki> that's not very standard feature of standard track
2025-06-02T02:10:26 < nomorekaki> how much current total for a whole train from track?
2025-06-02T02:10:41 < nomorekaki> I wonder if magnetic fields become significant
2025-06-02T02:11:31 < nomorekaki> from rail using brushes or wheels?
2025-06-02T02:12:39 < nomorekaki> what I know is round wheels are not ideal for electric currents
2025-06-02T02:13:08 < nomorekaki> at least if current goes through ball bearing it causes micropitting or something to the balls
2025-06-02T02:13:23 < Laurenceb_> oh yeah it has to use brushes
2025-06-02T02:13:52 < Laurenceb_> atm I'm working on traction control
2025-06-02T02:14:04 < Laurenceb_> tempted to try a beaglebone black
2025-06-02T02:14:13 < nomorekaki> you were doing fancy math last time
2025-06-02T02:14:33 < Laurenceb_> it has native can and ethernet
2025-06-02T02:14:46 < Laurenceb_> yeah, optimal / model predictive controler
2025-06-02T02:15:01 < nomorekaki> any timeline predictions?
2025-06-02T02:15:13 < Laurenceb_> but it only needs to run at 200Hz so it can run on embedded linux
2025-06-02T02:15:20 < Laurenceb_> what do you mean?
2025-06-02T02:15:48 < nomorekaki> when you ride a full proto
2025-06-02T02:16:11 < Laurenceb_> ah we have an old london underground train we fitted traction control to
2025-06-02T02:16:36 < nomorekaki> but does it have your drives?
2025-06-02T02:16:37 < Laurenceb_> so it can be tested at low speed, aim is then to sell the low speed version to conventional train operators
2025-06-02T02:16:39 < Laurenceb_> yes
2025-06-02T02:16:56 < nomorekaki> what is the benefit they are buying?
2025-06-02T02:17:01 < Laurenceb_> currently t uses lidar + simulink tho
2025-06-02T02:17:21 < Laurenceb_> better track alignment of the wheels so less wheel wear and noise
2025-06-02T02:17:40 < nomorekaki> conventional trains are working pretty well without any electronics
2025-06-02T02:17:54 < nomorekaki> at least slow ones
2025-06-02T02:17:55 < Laurenceb_> not really
2025-06-02T02:18:08 < Laurenceb_> they screech and grind on every tight corner
2025-06-02T02:19:04 < nomorekaki> can screech and grind be calculated into some number of moneys?
2025-06-02T02:19:33 < nomorekaki> wheels are ofc money and track too
2025-06-02T02:20:40 < nomorekaki> can the traction control make train ride well / better on worn rails?
2025-06-02T02:20:51 < Laurenceb_> yeah it makes a big difference
2025-06-02T02:20:54 < nomorekaki> or worn rails + wheels
2025-06-02T02:21:26 < Laurenceb_> probably, but that makes it harder
2025-06-02T02:21:54 < Laurenceb_> I'm trying to do sensorless brushless motor and sensorless traction control using the sensorless motor control
2025-06-02T02:22:00 < Laurenceb_> its pretty tricky
2025-06-02T02:22:34 < Laurenceb_> right, sleepy tiem
2025-06-02T02:22:38 < Laurenceb_> cya
2025-06-02T02:22:48 < nomorekaki> ok
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2025-06-02T02:22:59 < nomorekaki> bye then
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2025-06-02T02:42:37 < nomorekaki> how to measure torque omiting any bearing parasitics?
2025-06-02T02:43:26 < nomorekaki> I bet there is a way that doesn't require straing gauge in axle
2025-06-02T02:46:15 < nomorekaki> okay googles AI said you have to basically characterize the parasitics and math it out from results
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2025-06-02T11:21:33 < tomeaton17> hello
2025-06-02T11:22:33 < tomeaton17> Anyone seen the pictures of the russian missile teardowns
2025-06-02T11:23:51 < machinehum> no
2025-06-02T11:24:00 < machinehum> Why is there an Arduino uno in there?
2025-06-02T11:24:45 < tomeaton17> They are also stm32 enjoyers
2025-06-02T11:25:37 < tomeaton17> packed with traco power supplies as well
2025-06-02T11:25:42 < tomeaton17> load of zynqs
2025-06-02T11:25:58 < tomeaton17> https://x.com/FPGAX_ no idea of the veracity of the images but checks out from previous experience
2025-06-02T11:28:33 < qyx> ti.com dsp, what an irony
2025-06-02T11:29:25 < qyx> it just confirms their economy and military is western based and we allowed that
2025-06-02T11:30:42 < tomeaton17> yeah they just don't have the silicon fab technology
2025-06-02T11:31:06 < tomeaton17> suprised they are using traco's though surely thats something they could do themselves
2025-06-02T11:31:40 < tomeaton17> must have been fun getting the vivado toolchain going
2025-06-02T11:33:21 < qyx> that turkish thing looks much like an arduino
2025-06-02T11:33:45 < qyx> even with a bodge wire
2025-06-02T11:38:15 < qyx> this looks like the ublox's new gnss ant https://x.com/FPGAX_/status/1919652897542865113/photo/4
2025-06-02T11:38:28 < qyx> with 4-point feed in a plastic enclosure
2025-06-02T11:39:02 < qyx> https://www.u-blox.com/en/product/ann-mb1-antenna
2025-06-02T11:41:38 < machinehum> How does an "anti jamming" module work?
2025-06-02T11:41:47 < machinehum> I understand the words
2025-06-02T11:42:27 < qyx> same here
2025-06-02T11:45:41 < tomeaton17> maybe some dsp filter thing
2025-06-02T11:50:57 < tomeaton17> they really don't like connectors do they 
2025-06-02T12:02:02 < jpa-> considering it has multiple antennas, it could be some kind of beamforming that filters out signals that do not come from the expected direction of the satellite
2025-06-02T12:13:04 < qyx> yeah but at -140 dBm I expect it to be quite hard to filter out unwanted signals even if they are groing from the back
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2025-06-02T13:08:02 < qyx> so $customer is using these https://apwcompany.com/eml32mm-12/
2025-06-02T13:09:33 < qyx> thank you, I just found the answer
2025-06-02T13:17:01 < machinehum> Intresting
2025-06-02T13:28:30 < srk> qyx: did you get a reply on your imx boards quote? I like their so-dimm style modules
2025-06-02T13:31:45 < qyx> srk: nope, I'll poke them with a reminder
2025-06-02T13:38:48 < qyx> compulab has similar too
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2025-06-02T13:54:38 < zyp> srk, who?
2025-06-02T14:07:21 < qyx> srk: compulab has a table for this SoM https://www.compulab.com/products/computer-on-modules/mcm-imx8m-mini-nxp-i-mx-8m-mini-solder-down-som-system-on-module/#ordering
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2025-06-02T14:29:54 < machinehum> qyx: What you building?
2025-06-02T14:32:16 < qyx> a DAQ controlle
2025-06-02T14:32:17 < qyx> r
2025-06-02T14:33:34 < machinehum> Nice
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2025-06-02T14:55:47 < lordevron> Hi guys i have a question not strictly related to stm32, but you probably know the answer anyway :) ..  i need to dump (and reflash) a firmware from a EFR32MG1 (cortex m4) mcu using SWD interface..but i do not have a j-link adapter nor a dev board for that chip.. or a stlink nucleo board with blackmagic fw on it as debugger? or a rpi pico?
2025-06-02T14:57:23 < tpbsd> lordevron, do you have a bluepill board ?
2025-06-02T14:58:33 < lordevron> i dont think so..
2025-06-02T14:59:33 < tpbsd> lordevron, do you have anything ;-) ?
2025-06-02T15:01:04 < lordevron> i have rpi pico... and i am pretty sure that in the basement i have several st nucleo boards (cortex m4 based )..
2025-06-02T15:01:31 < tpbsd> any nucleo will do
2025-06-02T15:02:00 < tpbsd> their on board usb/stlink can be used externally
2025-06-02T15:02:06 < lordevron> ok so should i flash the backmagic firmware on it?
2025-06-02T15:02:13 < tpbsd> no need
2025-06-02T15:02:28 < tpbsd> the nucleo stlink is self contained
2025-06-02T15:02:51 < tpbsd> it will flash ant stm32 chip just fine
2025-06-02T15:02:54 < tpbsd> any
2025-06-02T15:03:13 < tpbsd> you just need stlink on the pc or openocd or whatever
2025-06-02T15:03:49 < lordevron> but the one i want to flash is not from ST...  is the EFR32MG1
2025-06-02T15:05:08 < tpbsd> oh!! oops sorry I missed that
2025-06-02T15:05:13 < tpbsd> my bad
2025-06-02T15:06:24 < lordevron> np :) so that is why i was asking the blackmagic firmware
2025-06-02T15:12:05 < qyx> lordevron: is EFR32MG1 a STM32?
2025-06-02T15:12:32 < qyx> oh not related to stm32
2025-06-02T15:13:08 < qyx> you can use any stlink v2.x for that
2025-06-02T15:13:27 < qyx> you don't need blackmagic fw nor jlink if you already have older nucleos
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2025-06-02T15:14:56 < qyx> newer v3.x stlinks are limited to stm32
2025-06-02T15:18:35 < infisc> because they check to see if the target is an STM32 and refuse to work if it isn't, or because they've extended the protocol in some way that makes it incompatible with generic ARM?
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2025-06-02T15:37:23 < krish2487> lordevron: https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberrypipico/comments/12r2yqj/black_magic_probe_firmware_compatible_with_pi_pico/
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2025-06-02T15:38:01 < krish2487> It looks like the picoprobe firmware can be used to debug other targets.. However, I havent tested it myself.. so take it with a pinch of salt..
2025-06-02T15:38:03 < krish2487> :-)
2025-06-02T15:49:52 < qyx> infisc: because of some "bug" they are refusing to fix long term
2025-06-02T15:50:05 < qyx> read "refuse"
2025-06-02T15:50:24 < qyx> iirc that was roughly the story behind it
2025-06-02T15:50:53 < qyx> but v2.x definitely work for non-STM targets, I did microchips with it
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2025-06-02T16:06:02 < tomeaton17> picked up some pomona probes. lovely and sharp
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2025-06-02T16:45:44 < karlp> doh, iram overflow by 16k.
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2025-06-03T01:07:28 < qyx> I came to a conclusion it is much easier not telling the customer about possible features of a thing, develop them secretly when it is almost certain the feature is needed and then tell them afterwards
2025-06-03T01:07:32 < qyx> and sell them
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2025-06-03T01:12:24 < zyp> also easier to estimate how much time it'll take :p
2025-06-03T01:13:39 < zyp> I was in a meeting today, coming up with some estimates for a quote
2025-06-03T01:14:35 < zyp> that's a bit hard when we don't yet have detailed/specific requirements, so we were just guessing at what we'll have to do
2025-06-03T01:15:01 < zyp> apparently client's client wants a quote first, before defining the requirements :p
2025-06-03T01:15:19 < qyx> ounds common
2025-06-03T01:16:36 < zyp> that said, I'm not a fan of estimates in general
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2025-06-03T08:39:03 < tpbsd> man, the start up of the LSI clock in a STM32F051 is *fast*
2025-06-03T08:40:35 < qyx> F051?
2025-06-03T08:41:21 < tpbsd> yeah, it's my main mcu
2025-06-03T08:41:53 < qyx> oh there really is such number
2025-06-03T08:41:58 < tpbsd> I purchased 500 of them for $0.56 ea back in 2014 in QFN32
2025-06-03T08:42:16 < tpbsd> they have 64KB flash and 8KB ram
2025-06-03T08:42:58 < qyx> I remember there was a numbering change at that time
2025-06-03T08:43:14 < tpbsd> it's a great chip, rated at 48MHz as it's made in 90nm node but reliably runs at 100Mhz @ 30ma if you dont want to write to flash
2025-06-03T08:44:04 < tpbsd> yeah, the F0xx UM is full of "dosnt apply to the F051"
2025-06-03T08:44:48 < tpbsd> it has one nasty issue tho, the QFN32 doesnt have external 32KHz xtal pins 
2025-06-03T08:45:04 < tpbsd> so no accurate RTC is possible
2025-06-03T08:45:32 < tpbsd> otherwise it's pretty good, ADC and DAC and a comparator
2025-06-03T08:46:24 < tpbsd> and the usual 8 timers/counters 
2025-06-03T08:47:16 < tpbsd> 32 peripherals in all
2025-06-03T08:48:50 < tpbsd> and I havent mastered the LP modes yet. only been trying for several years ;-)
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2025-06-03T09:16:18 < ventyl> 32-bit replacement for AVR
2025-06-03T09:20:09 < tpbsd> the F051 is far too advanced for a AVR replacement ;-)
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2025-06-03T09:21:34 < qyx> it is, it is probably the second most basic stm32 among the olders
2025-06-03T09:21:39 < qyx> before C0, G0 came
2025-06-03T09:23:08 < tpbsd> thats right. but it's still far too advanced for a AVR replacement ;-)
2025-06-03T09:23:47 < tpbsd> F051 was introduced in 2011 I think
2025-06-03T09:26:47 < qyx> in 2011 I was starting with stm32 and 80% only F1 and F2 were available
2025-06-03T09:26:55 < qyx> but I may be wrong
2025-06-03T09:27:02 < qyx> F0 came at later stages, even after F4
2025-06-03T09:27:38 < tpbsd> true, but F1xx was released in 2004
2025-06-03T09:28:07 < qyx> no, it was not available when I was at uni
2025-06-03T09:28:14 < qyx> hm wiki says 2007
2025-06-03T09:28:23 < qyx> I though around 2010, but 2007 is probably right
2025-06-03T09:28:24 < tpbsd> the old STM32F103 has been around a long time now
2025-06-03T09:28:43 < tpbsd> oh, I must have misremembered
2025-06-03T09:29:04 < tpbsd> I started using it in 2014
2025-06-03T09:30:04 < qyx> the last AVR proj I did used atmega128
2025-06-03T09:30:10 < tpbsd> without doubt the STM32G051 is heaps better, but I have lots of the F051 and Im retired now, so I dont need the latest as Im only a hobbyist
2025-06-03T09:30:20 < qyx> then I jumped to arm7tdmi
2025-06-03T09:30:32 < qyx> and then stm32f1
2025-06-03T09:30:51 < qyx> hm, what was it, sam7s256 maybe
2025-06-03T09:30:54 < tpbsd> the F1 is still a darn fast m3
2025-06-03T09:31:23 < tpbsd> there are probably hundreds of billions of them in the world
2025-06-03T09:32:52 < tpbsd> I wrote this for the F103 a few years ago https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/bluepill-diags-v1.640.html
2025-06-03T09:33:12 < tpbsd> Ive had way over 10 thousand downloads since
2025-06-03T09:34:52 < tpbsd> oddly Ive never used it myself in any projects as I hate the GPIO system it uses and way prefer the F051 as it has standard STM32F gpio
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2025-06-03T10:59:32 < qyx> v1 gpio was the standard at that time
2025-06-03T11:00:12 < tpbsd> yes, but it was horrible
2025-06-03T11:00:40 < tpbsd> at least I think so
2025-06-03T11:03:10 < qyx> oh I am not objecting that, it was
2025-06-03T11:06:56 < qyx> Arrived at DHL Sort Facility BAHRAIN - BAHRAIN,BAHRAIN - BAHRAIN 
2025-06-03T11:07:00 < qyx> ..interesting
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2025-06-03T12:41:27 < machinehum> Morning stm32
2025-06-03T12:51:10 < srk> gm
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2025-06-03T16:57:06 < mawk> lots of bahrains
2025-06-03T17:04:25 < ventyl> yo dawg
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2025-06-03T18:34:39 < PhantomWork> question guys, STM32cubeide with HAL and DMA. Is there a way to know by code which item in the array is a particular channel? ex, systemp = DMA[adc_systemp]    instead of going blindly to DMA[3]      Same with the others like ADC_IN3  or the like
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2025-06-03T19:00:33 < nohit> you set the order of ADC channels with Rank of ADC_ChannelConfTypeDef and they will be in that order in the memory
2025-06-03T19:02:14 < nohit> you can create an enum that represent the channels and use that
2025-06-03T19:06:15 < nohit> i would refactor that name DMA to adc_data or similar
2025-06-03T19:29:11 < PhantomWork> nohit: but no way to set it "by pin"? so if I add a channel I don't have to edit the code?
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2025-06-03T21:20:53 < catphish> PhantomWork: i think you'll need to define those yourself
2025-06-03T21:21:01 < catphish> (and maintain them)
2025-06-03T21:30:05 < PhantomWork> catphish: afaik, when you enable an input in the UI, it may change the index where the ADC value is
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2025-06-03T21:30:57 < PhantomWork> for example, if you use AN1 AN4 and AN5, but then you add AN2 then you are off by 1 for the AN4 and AN5 unless you manually change the index in your code
2025-06-03T21:31:19 < catphish> I don't know how the automatic code generation decides how to order them, i would assume by number
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2025-06-03T21:31:52 < catphish> right, hence my comment about maintaining your references manually, mildly annoying, but not a huge job
2025-06-03T21:34:38 < PhantomWork> yeah not a huge job, just one possible bug path that I wanted to attempt to avoid
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2025-06-04T14:39:56 < karlp> feck. I have no logging from the _main_ task in my esp-idf, but works form every other task.
2025-06-04T14:40:00 < karlp> the fuck.
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2025-06-04T18:19:14 < karlp> so my apptrace config worked in v5.3.2, but somehow not for the main task in 5.4.1.
2025-06-04T18:19:20 < karlp> I have no idea what changed, or how.
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2025-06-04T18:56:07 < karlp> fucking found it.
2025-06-04T18:56:17 < karlp> a fix at least. no fucking clue where it changed in the IDF.
2025-06-04T18:56:58 < karlp> somethhing in ordering of newlib GLOBAL_REENT shit gone wild.
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2025-06-05T00:17:11 < qyx> zyp: just reading about rekkevideangst
2025-06-05T00:17:22 < zyp> :)
2025-06-05T00:17:49 < zyp> that was word of the year or something at some point last decade?
2025-06-05T00:19:27 < zyp> hmm, no, it took the second place in 2013
2025-06-05T00:19:39 < qyx> idk, apparently you just reached car sales being 97% electric
2025-06-05T00:20:36 < zyp> probably; I haven't followed the statistics, but based on what I see every day I can believe it
2025-06-05T00:20:54 < specing>  Norway?
2025-06-05T00:20:57 < zyp> yes
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2025-06-05T00:23:50 < zyp> I don't think I've had «rekkeviddeangst» since 2018 or so
2025-06-05T00:25:41 < zyp> and the only reason range were an issue at the time was because I were in germany and three of the charging locations along my route were out of order and I were running out of range to «just continue and try the next location»
2025-06-05T00:27:52 < zyp> that's never really been an issue for me in Norway, because pretty much all locations have multiple chargers, and it's unlikely all are out of order
2025-06-05T00:28:56 < zyp> and nowadays continuing to the next location often means crossing the parking lot to where the competing operator has their chargers :p
2025-06-05T00:30:24 < zyp> I think the closest chargers from here have four operators on the same lot
2025-06-05T00:30:54 < qyx> thats why you should BYOD a generator in the trunk
2025-06-05T00:32:58 < specing> I'd definetely like to see electric cars with small-er batteries that support charging while in motion from genset on trailer or roof
2025-06-05T00:33:18 < specing> because the issue with PHEVs is that you still pay ICE taxes
2025-06-05T00:34:10 < qyx> that whole long charging issue could be solved with replaceable small battery packs
2025-06-05T00:34:16 < zyp> yup, four different operators: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/hFa86.jpg
2025-06-05T00:34:21 < qyx> like 10 kWh one
2025-06-05T00:34:37 < zyp> and according to the app they've got 33 chargers in total there
2025-06-05T00:34:52 < zyp> 12+8+4+9
2025-06-05T00:35:09 < specing> Norway's electric grid must look thiccc
2025-06-05T00:35:24 < specing> qyx: it's not even long
2025-06-05T00:35:25 < qyx> can you flat tow an EV?
2025-06-05T00:35:44 < qyx> like over a parking lot?
2025-06-05T00:35:54 < zyp> of course
2025-06-05T00:36:14 < qyx> that's not much "of course"
2025-06-05T00:36:28 < zyp> you can even charge by regenerating while being towed :p
2025-06-05T00:36:30 < qyx> I can't tow my car with empty battery
2025-06-05T00:36:46 < zyp> wrong comparison
2025-06-05T00:36:50 < qyx> true
2025-06-05T00:36:56 < zyp> EVs also have the traditional 12V battery
2025-06-05T00:37:07 < zyp> probably can't tow an EV with empty 12V battery
2025-06-05T00:37:27 < zyp> but empty HV battery is like empty fuel tank
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2025-06-05T00:37:41 < specing> why would flat 12V be an issue?
2025-06-05T00:38:03 < qyx> parking brake to start with
2025-06-05T00:38:07 < zyp> yeah
2025-06-05T00:38:20 < specing> That needs electricity nowadays?
2025-06-05T00:38:31 < zyp> they're electric on both my cars
2025-06-05T00:38:32 < specing> all cars I've used had a proper handbrake...
2025-06-05T00:38:42 < zyp> and on most modern ICE cars I've driven too
2025-06-05T00:38:45 < specing> mechanical only
2025-06-05T00:39:17 < zyp> I think the newest car I've driven with a mechanical handbrake was a 2015 polo
2025-06-05T00:39:43 < qyx> and even with a good battery it is an issue
2025-06-05T00:39:55 < qyx> I can't push my car on a parking lot
2025-06-05T00:40:08 < qyx> because I can't unbrake without engine running
2025-06-05T00:40:19 < qyx> and if I turn the engine off it brakes automatically
2025-06-05T00:40:33 < qyx> and if the engine stalls, it restarts on its own
2025-06-05T00:40:43 < specing> tech getting in the way
2025-06-05T00:40:45 < specing> smh
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2025-06-05T06:50:10 < Phantom> hi there, quick question, internal temperature sensor, I get a crapton of noise, like 5+ degree variation from one reading to the next. Is that normal or is my code broken?
2025-06-05T06:57:01 < tpbsd> it was normal for me, but my code was terrible
2025-06-05T06:57:20 < tpbsd> the sensor is only a diode
2025-06-05T06:57:28 < Phantom> ok
2025-06-05T06:57:47 < tpbsd> so writers have claimed the sorted it out
2025-06-05T06:58:02 < Phantom> it's fine for what I want to do with it, but I found it a bit annoying
2025-06-05T06:58:15 < tpbsd> lol, Id rather glue a LMT01 on the top and use that ;-)
2025-06-05T06:58:22 < Phantom> just wanted to see a crude display of the temperature
2025-06-05T06:58:56 < tpbsd> it's only supposed to be used to see if the mcu is outside normal limits I think
2025-06-05T06:59:06 < Phantom> which make sense
2025-06-05T06:59:10 < tpbsd> yeah
2025-06-05T06:59:29 < Phantom> but they should have put some internal filtering imo to reduce the noise
2025-06-05T06:59:54 < tpbsd> is it a low nouse design youre using or some demo board ?
2025-06-05T07:01:08 < Phantom> my own design, which need a new revision, current one have no use for ADC, but I'm redoing part of the code so I added it, so the true usage is currently unusable, the pin is floating so...
2025-06-05T07:02:45 < Phantom> DUH   just remembered why my other board have a way more stable temperature readout, it use an NTC lol
2025-06-05T07:02:56 < tpbsd> yeah
2025-06-05T07:03:21 < tpbsd> diodes suck for temperature measurement, use a LMT01 instead
2025-06-05T07:03:39 < tpbsd> theyre cheap, calibrated and easy to use
2025-06-05T07:04:03 < Phantom> the NTC there is also for crude readout
2025-06-05T07:04:37 < tpbsd> yeah, NTC's arent calibrated unless you do it
2025-06-05T07:05:08 < Phantom> intended as a crude overheating protection of some motor drivers, located between two drivers, not even on a common ground plate
2025-06-05T07:06:14 < Phantom> and anyway, stm32f103 ain't the best too for ADC, so meh
2025-06-05T07:10:07 < tpbsd> the advantage of NTC is temperature max, they can go to 300 -400C
2025-06-05T07:10:24 < tpbsd> silicon is limited to <130 C
2025-06-05T07:10:46 < tpbsd> above 400C one needs thermocouples
2025-06-05T07:11:42 < Phantom> yeah, but NTC at such high temperature have such a low resistance that it become problematic, and a 4 wires should be used ideally
2025-06-05T07:12:03 < tpbsd> ah ok
2025-06-05T07:12:43 < tpbsd> hopefully a F103 shouldnt reach those temperatures ;-)
2025-06-05T07:13:49 < Phantom> yeah  hopefully
2025-06-05T07:14:26 < tpbsd> I assume you would use it to see if your RC device was on fire ?
2025-06-05T07:15:36 < Phantom> the NTC on the motor driver board, more for development and torture test than anything else
2025-06-05T07:15:56 < tpbsd> I see
2025-06-05T07:16:18 < Phantom> the driver is self protected, have a current limiter, report current, is polyfuse protected, plus have a normal fuse
2025-06-05T07:18:00 < tpbsd> sounds well protected
2025-06-05T07:18:19 < Phantom> in theory
2025-06-05T07:20:02 < tpbsd> I used to soak the windings in 24 hr araldite then put DC thru them to heat them up to 90C and the araldite would set like glass
2025-06-05T07:20:21 < tpbsd> they were pretty tough at that stage
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2025-06-05T07:33:21 < Phantom> I'm just annoyed that there is no easy way to assign index to the ADC DMA buffer array for the pin names...
2025-06-05T07:33:30 < Phantom> for the rank thing
2025-06-05T07:33:44 < Phantom> so if you change the rank or add another channel, so it won't break your code
2025-06-05T07:40:52 < tpbsd> I've never used dma as yet
2025-06-05T07:41:02 < tpbsd> so I know nothing in that area
2025-06-05T07:51:07 < Phantom> my code is 100% interrupt driven, which is nice
2025-06-05T07:52:16 < Phantom> still trying to figure out how to find how much CPU usage I have... not that easy it seems
2025-06-05T07:57:12 < tpbsd> I have a neat trick there
2025-06-05T07:57:33 < tpbsd> does it have tasks ?
2025-06-05T07:57:50 < Phantom> what are tasks?
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2025-06-05T08:02:50 < tpbsd> ok, do you have a moving coil microammeter ?
2025-06-05T08:02:56 < qyx> if it is all interruot driven without any kind of scheduler, run a low priority recurring interrupt and lit a LED inside
2025-06-05T08:03:34 < tpbsd> qyz or use a moving coil microammeter
2025-06-05T08:03:35 < qyx> another approach is run a wfi() in a loop in yhe main task
2025-06-05T08:03:56 < Phantom> that is what I have there
2025-06-05T08:04:03 < Phantom> the wfi() in the main loop
2025-06-05T08:04:16 < Phantom> but, I don't see how that can tell you the idle time
2025-06-05T08:04:26 < qyx> hm yeah
2025-06-05T08:05:20 < Phantom> unless... I add a counter to each interrupts..   ticks in, tick out...
2025-06-05T08:05:32 < tpbsd> Phantom, one can only really tell the load easily I think
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2025-06-05T08:12:03 < Phantom> the only way I can see is to check how many ms it spend in each interrupts, and compare with the system ms counter
2025-06-05T08:12:21 < Phantom> but that is very low resolution... and won't work
2025-06-05T08:17:09 < qyx> you don't have to change every interruot to count the time
2025-06-05T08:17:22 < qyx> just add a low prio one which runs all the other time
2025-06-05T08:17:31 < qyx> and count free time spend there
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2025-06-05T09:06:49 < jpa-> Phantom:   1. take current time from DWT cycle counter  2. compare with previous time, if more than 1µs, add to busy time counter         and then just clear the busy time counter every one second or whatever period you want for cpu load reporting
2025-06-05T09:07:21 < jpa-> adjust 1µs for the minimum length of interrupt handler (typically 24 cycles or so)
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2025-06-05T11:15:11 < tomeaton17> morning folks
2025-06-05T11:17:58 < tomeaton17> is ti webench any good?
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2025-06-05T12:13:30 < karlp> I don't get this complain about pin ordering in dma list.
2025-06-05T12:13:35 < karlp> like, you set the order yourself...
2025-06-05T12:13:40 < karlp> what's the issue?
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2025-06-05T14:04:19 < karlp> nice: this page: https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/wireless-connectivity/short-range/wi-fi-products/st67w611m1.html lists it as "includes ST patented state of the art blah blah "
2025-06-05T14:04:26 < karlp> makes no mention _at all_ of qualcomm.
2025-06-05T14:04:56 < karlp> the promo email explicitly says "New Wi-Fi coprocessor modules built on Qualcomm technology"
2025-06-05T14:14:59 < tomeaton17> it does on the datasheet
2025-06-05T14:27:14 < qyx> sounds like nxp's iw611
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2025-06-05T17:17:50 < Guest79> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FGsn3EuTXQAAJv2p.jpg
2025-06-05T17:17:58  * karlp smells a lolrence.
2025-06-05T17:28:54 < tomeaton17> Yoo kay?
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2025-06-05T17:36:12 < Guest79> lol
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2025-06-05T17:38:39 < ventyl> busted
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2025-06-05T20:55:08 < bitmask> why cant endorphins last longer than like 10 min... I feel great right after the gym but by the time I've cooled off, all the good vibes and feeling like I'm ready to do anything have worn off... 
2025-06-05T20:55:34 < bitmask> guess I'll just have to go back to taking drugs :)
2025-06-05T20:56:04 < jpa-> drugs have already destroyed your brain and you can never get back to normal good state anymore
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2025-06-05T20:57:22 < bitmask> first of all, I never had a normal good state, hence the drugs... second of all, even though I still take methadone so I'm not sober, my normal state today is a million times better than its ever been
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2025-06-05T21:02:05 < bitmask> and I don't have any evidence and it may just be rumor, but isn't meth the only drug that really causes permanent brain damage? 
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2025-06-05T21:25:34 < Steffanx> Mawk we need your expertise / experience 
2025-06-05T21:25:54 < Steffanx> Time to gym 24/7 bitmask ?
2025-06-05T21:26:03 < bitmask> hah no thanks
2025-06-05T21:26:07 < Steffanx> With pauses of max 10 minutes 
2025-06-05T21:28:45 < bitmask> i wish I could jump in the pool right after, I don't think people would like that very much though
2025-06-05T21:29:36 < qyx> oh sounds like I need some meth then
2025-06-05T21:34:26 < Steffanx> And money wyx
2025-06-05T21:34:29 < Steffanx> Qyx
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2025-06-05T22:18:27 < qyx> no, meth is enough, I would take some and sell the rest
2025-06-05T22:19:26  * qyx @ cocoa porridge
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 06 2025
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2025-06-06T00:22:21 < tomeaton17> >doing LFS for fun
2025-06-06T00:22:36 < tomeaton17> >deletes /usr/lib64
2025-06-06T00:23:11 < tpbsd> Linux from scratch !
2025-06-06T00:23:32 < karlp> hrm, I'm callocing 10k for my fwupd file handler, which is nice for perf, but.... I think I can live with slower fwupdates in exchange for a chuynk of that.
2025-06-06T00:23:51 < tomeaton17> tpbsd: thats the one!
2025-06-06T00:26:34 < tomeaton17> I am such an idiot I thought I was ssh'd into the lfs. going to have to reinstall the host distro now
2025-06-06T00:29:26 < tpbsd> I remember once I deleted the root file system on a remote host via SSH and when I hit enter, my own screen locked up !
2025-06-06T00:29:44 < tpbsd> oops I had just deleted everything on my pc
2025-06-06T00:30:16 < tpbsd> things like this gave rise to the saying "sit on your hands when root"
2025-06-06T00:31:09 < tpbsd> sine those days I have always made sure that root has a RED prompt
2025-06-06T00:39:47 < tomeaton17> Actually the first time I have nuked a system before
2025-06-06T00:42:22 < tpbsd> there are only two types of linux user, 'those who have nuked a Linux system and those who will nuke one' :)
2025-06-06T00:43:25 < tpbsd> nuking a Linux system is useful to show us how nonexistent or useless our back up system is
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2025-06-06T00:47:18 < tomeaton17> this is very true
2025-06-06T00:47:40 < tomeaton17> unfortunately my internet speed is shit so will take a while to get everything back. Almost got debian reinstalled
2025-06-06T00:48:09 < tomeaton17> I live in the supposed silicon valley of the uk and I have 9MB/s max download
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2025-06-06T00:49:30 < tpbsd> ouch
2025-06-06T00:51:03 < tpbsd> time to get Starlink perhaps, if you have the required view of the sky ? I have it (not on it now - budgeting as I spent my spare cash on AI hardware) and it's awesome as Internet in AU regional really sucks also
2025-06-06T00:51:14 < tomeaton17> apparently we can get fibre installed but I am renting so we will see what happens
2025-06-06T00:51:36 < tomeaton17> whats the ping like on starlink?
2025-06-06T00:51:40 < tpbsd> same, Im in a huge industrial shed in regional australia
2025-06-06T00:51:51 < tpbsd> 35mS
2025-06-06T00:52:04 < BrainDamage> at 300-something km you won't have ping issues
2025-06-06T00:52:05 < tomeaton17> lovely
2025-06-06T00:52:27 < tpbsd> unlimited dowload and starlink speed tests of 350mbps
2025-06-06T00:52:35 < BrainDamage> it's geostationary internet that has sats at 65000km
2025-06-06T00:52:46 < tpbsd> exactly
2025-06-06T00:53:14 < tomeaton17> tpbsd: sounds like an interesting living situation. I visited Australia about 10 years ago. Very enjoyable
2025-06-06T00:53:26 < tomeaton17> I am considering going for Christmas for the ashes
2025-06-06T00:53:38 < tpbsd> heavy rain affects Starlink slightly with lower download speeds, but still high in comparison to cellphone Internet
2025-06-06T00:54:20 < tpbsd> tomeaton17, it's still 'the arse end of the universe' here, not that Im complaining
2025-06-06T00:55:23 < tpbsd> tomeaton17, Im the kind of man who would rather have a milling machine than a loungeroom and couch to watch tv
2025-06-06T00:55:24 < BrainDamage> https://officialmancard.com/omc/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/meanwhile-in-australia.jpeg
2025-06-06T00:56:02 < tomeaton17> A sofa maybe slightly more comfortable to sleep on however
2025-06-06T00:56:04 < tpbsd> hah, 'down under'
2025-06-06T00:56:24 < tpbsd> but useless to mill with
2025-06-06T00:57:14 < tpbsd> I could have a couch tho, it would either have to me in my office (with my bed) or out in the 20 * 15 m workshop
2025-06-06T00:57:24 < tpbsd> me = be
2025-06-06T00:57:37 < BrainDamage> you can mill materials softer than the couch, so, talc?
2025-06-06T00:57:52 < BrainDamage> it's also going to be awkward to spin
2025-06-06T00:58:27 < tpbsd> I prefer soft 'turning bar' ie aluminum with zinc content
2025-06-06T00:59:08 < tpbsd> tho steel is ok, but I dont use that a lot in electronics as it rusts
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2025-06-06T01:03:45 < tpbsd> dam, I told my local AI I had a 'xls' file when I meant 'xsl' in my last prompt and because it's a 35b version of Qwen-coder, it's slow at about 1.5 words a second reply so now I wait again ....
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2025-06-06T08:33:43 < jpa-> tpbsd: no stop button?
2025-06-06T08:34:45 < tpbsd> jpa-, I want a 'go faster' button not a stop button :)
2025-06-06T08:35:12 < jpa-> well if you have a mistake in prompt or it misunderstands, you could stop midway
2025-06-06T08:35:20 < tpbsd> jpa-, actually I have a second RTC3060 card for the pc, so that will make it faster
2025-06-06T08:35:25 < tpbsd> oh I did
2025-06-06T08:35:35 < tpbsd> ctrl +c
2025-06-06T08:36:08 < tpbsd> but as it's slow it's the redo I had to wait for
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2025-06-06T14:43:04 < mawk> what Steffanx 
2025-06-06T16:16:07 < qyx> is mawk goig to the ublox webinar?
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2025-06-06T16:43:58 < Steffanx> Just read the few lines before I mentioned you mr mawk 
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2025-06-06T16:56:36 < bitmask> good morning
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2025-06-06T17:10:44 < tomeaton17> hello there
2025-06-06T17:32:25 < bitmask> ukgh, this shader system is driving me nuts
2025-06-06T17:32:38 < bitmask> I can't decide how I want it all to work
2025-06-06T17:47:30 < tomeaton17> shader as in computer graphics?
2025-06-06T17:50:17 < bitmask> yea
2025-06-06T17:50:26 < bitmask> working on a vulkan game engine for fun
2025-06-06T17:54:52 < tomeaton17> bitmask: nice one, I did an opengl years ago. Have always planned to upgrade it to vulkan/dx12 but I don't think I abstracted much so don't want to go through the refactor hassle
2025-06-06T17:56:18 < bitmask> yea I'm designing this to be multi platform multi graplhics api but only implementing the vulkan stuff for now
2025-06-06T17:58:15 < bitmask> im on the third big architecture refactor because I'm not really planning stuff out and still learning a lot. I'd never used vulkan (and barely used opengl) before this so I had to try out things to see what worked and what didn't
2025-06-06T17:59:46 < tomeaton17> straight into vulkan is definitely the deep end, you will understand everything when you done however!
2025-06-06T18:00:38 < tomeaton17> bitmask: I would very much recommend Game Engine Architecture by Jason Gregory if you haven't read that already. Doesn't go much into low level stuff but great for system design advice
2025-06-06T18:00:39 < bitmask> I mean I started this a few years ago, I work on it for a while and then take long breaks. I don't have any plans for it so its really just for learning and I like working on it and learning about it. 
2025-06-06T18:01:14 < tomeaton17> I think the last thing I did was integrating PhysX. That was good fun
2025-06-06T18:01:25 < bitmask> yea I have that downloaded actually. I definitely should read it and other stuff. A big part of my problem is being indecisive because I'm not sure the good way to do things
2025-06-06T18:05:25 < tomeaton17> its quite an easy read actually
2025-06-06T18:05:29 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/a/WMUon0g
2025-06-06T18:05:39 < bitmask> some screenshots
2025-06-06T18:06:03 < tomeaton17> glibc test suite actually passed 
2025-06-06T18:06:49 < tomeaton17> looks really good
2025-06-06T18:06:55 < tomeaton17> pbr?
2025-06-06T18:07:11 < bitmask> thx, still very early though
2025-06-06T18:07:13 < bitmask> yea
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2025-06-06T18:20:02 < tomeaton17> isnt vulkan on mac a bit hacky?
2025-06-06T18:20:22 < bitmask> yea it uses moltenvk which turns it into metal code 
2025-06-06T18:20:39 < bitmask> but I don't want to learn metal, at least not yet
2025-06-06T18:20:47 < bitmask> and it runs well enough
2025-06-06T18:21:22 < bitmask> so I consider vulkan working on windows, linux, and mac
2025-06-06T18:25:07 < tomeaton17> so the vulkan code you write is completely portable?
2025-06-06T18:27:27 < bitmask> there are 2 or 3 places in the vulkan initialization where I need preprocessor directives to control based on OS, but you are gonna need stuff like that anyway for different things
2025-06-06T18:27:33 < bitmask> other than that yea
2025-06-06T18:29:09 < bitmask> and right now I'm using GLFW for window creation and user input which is multi platform
2025-06-06T18:32:06 < tomeaton17> lovely
2025-06-06T18:32:50 < tomeaton17> Are you using glm
2025-06-06T18:35:53 < bitmask> yea
2025-06-06T18:43:59 < tomeaton17> right time to call it a day. Just started off gcc compile and test, we will see what happens on monday..
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2025-06-06T23:01:04 < qyx> helo late friday covid innovators
2025-06-06T23:05:11 < Steffanx> What is covid?
2025-06-06T23:05:30 < Steffanx> Did you covid again qyx ?
2025-06-06T23:05:41 < qyx> most probably, so shit in my throat
2025-06-06T23:05:45 < qyx> *some
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2025-06-06T23:06:10 < qyx> I was finally able to eat at least something after nearly 48h
2025-06-06T23:06:20 < qyx> fullly prepared for today's innovation
2025-06-06T23:07:16 < Steffanx> Did the kids bring you some of the fun stuff again?
2025-06-06T23:09:56 < qyx> most probably
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2025-06-06T23:17:46 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLA_qgl2YYs
2025-06-06T23:17:49 < machinehum> Crazy
2025-06-06T23:18:34 < machinehum> Can't you use spread spectrum etc... Or I guess just all the channels could be jammed?
2025-06-06T23:30:02 < BrainDamage> spread spectrum only increases jamming requirements, does not stop them
2025-06-06T23:30:26 < machinehum> Makes sense
2025-06-06T23:31:27 < BrainDamage> a narrowband jammer in a spread sprectrum receiver gets scrambled into a broadband signal that has lower power density
2025-06-06T23:32:15 < BrainDamage> the spreading factor is same as the code gain
2025-06-06T23:33:09 < BrainDamage> but if you make the jammer stronger by that much, you've overcome the resilience and the channel is jammed again, even if the jamming is  narrowband
2025-06-06T23:33:54 < BrainDamage> (that's for dsss, for fhss it's the same reasoning wrt broadband jammers)
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2025-06-06T23:44:35 < Phantom> jpa-: have a howto in detail with code for that? Don't understand what you said :D
--- Day changed Sat Jun 07 2025
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2025-06-07T00:22:31 < tomeaton17> evenin
2025-06-07T00:22:41 < machinehum> hoi
2025-06-07T00:28:10 < tomeaton17> hows it going folks
2025-06-07T00:28:16 < tomeaton17> I may be downwind of a few
2025-06-07T00:28:34 < machinehum> I ran out of gin time for bed
2025-06-07T00:28:54 < tomeaton17> shame I cant share mine
2025-06-07T00:29:58 < machinehum> Sure is
2025-06-07T00:33:53 < machinehum> Night
2025-06-07T00:40:48 < tpbsd> my Plang2 is coming along nicely, I spent yesterday wrestling with XSLT 1.0 and needed AI help in the end
2025-06-07T00:42:12 < tpbsd> sadly I cant prefabricate write and read Words from the SVD as there are only three 'access rights' states that I use in that process
2025-06-07T00:44:11 < tpbsd> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc/files/plang2-lmt01-5.png/download  <-- plang2 if anyone is interested
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2025-06-07T01:46:13 < tomeaton17> I have overindulged
2025-06-07T01:46:32 < tpbsd> hahah
2025-06-07T01:53:03 < tomeaton17> mrs is not happy
2025-06-07T01:53:06 < tomeaton17> anyway
2025-06-07T02:03:38 < qyx> I needed to look up that word
2025-06-07T02:05:05 < tomeaton17> which word
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2025-06-07T02:05:39 < qyx> overindulge
2025-06-07T02:25:41 < tomeaton17> Probably for the best that it is not part of your lexicon, it is rather too familiar for me sadly
2025-06-07T02:55:22 < qyx> do I remember right you are from gb?
2025-06-07T03:00:08 < tomeaton17> thats right
2025-06-07T03:00:18 < tomeaton17> rule britannia
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2025-06-07T11:51:10 < Steffanx> Too much tea, tomeaton17??? :o
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2025-06-07T20:14:46 < machinehum> Telegram has really easy... bot integration, has anyone messed with that?
2025-06-07T20:15:58 < jbo> machinehum
2025-06-07T20:16:31 < machinehum> jbo: hullo
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2025-06-07T20:19:24 < machinehum> As for any security ... anything, can't tell you. But if you wan't simple notifications to go from iot something to phone it takes like 13 seconds
2025-06-07T20:20:31 < jbo> FreeBSD 14.3 is out.
2025-06-07T20:20:47 < jbo> announcement on the 10th
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2025-06-07T21:59:30 < Steffanx> Why is it announced 3 days after it's out mr jbo ?
2025-06-07T23:04:38 < jbo> shipping out images to vendors
2025-06-07T23:07:59 < Steffanx> Sounds important 
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2025-06-08T02:09:22 < qyx> images of jpa-?
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2025-06-08T04:57:56 < jbo> <3
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2025-06-09T18:00:47 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o5Z_N2h3WHA
2025-06-09T18:03:41 < tomeaton17> Think he just wanted to increase his landed shots stats
2025-06-09T18:03:53 < machinehum> lol
2025-06-09T18:04:31 < tomeaton17> In other news Greta's modern day Dunkirk rescure fleet has been intercepted
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2025-06-09T23:17:51 < machinehum> j
2025-06-09T23:18:02 < machinehum> whoops sorry
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 10 2025
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2025-06-10T00:19:25 < jbo> how dare you
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2025-06-10T00:20:34 < tpbsd> yeah, we all know his root password now!
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2025-06-10T00:23:10 < jbo> j like "jbo & jpa- forever" <3
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2025-06-10T00:28:48 < tpbsd> yahoo back on starlink!
2025-06-10T00:28:58 < tpbsd> decent Internet again
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2025-06-10T02:09:12 < specing> Hmm
2025-06-10T02:09:30 < specing> I have two bluepills with same serial ID... did the chinese put that into mask rom? XD
2025-06-10T02:17:24 < tpbsd> specing is that serial 0 ?
2025-06-10T02:20:13 < qyx_> everytime when I see "bluepill" my vision gets blurred
2025-06-10T02:20:20 < specing> tpbsd: no
2025-06-10T02:20:27 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2025-06-10T02:20:48 < specing> no, wait, damn, false alarm
2025-06-10T02:20:54 < specing> I was looking at two dumps from same chip :|
2025-06-10T02:21:05 < tpbsd> specing, are the cpu's marked stm32f103 ?
2025-06-10T02:21:16 < specing> tpbsd: stm32f103c6t6A yes
2025-06-10T02:22:23 < tpbsd> specing, have you ever run the 'bluepill diags' on any bluepills ?
2025-06-10T02:23:34 < tpbsd> specing, it's designed to determine what the actual bluepill cpu is
2025-06-10T02:24:14 < specing> tpbsd: link pls
2025-06-10T02:24:34 < tpbsd> https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/bluepill-diags-v1.640.html
2025-06-10T02:24:52 < specing> I used greaseweezle's tester, it reports that peripherals work, but crashes during flash test
2025-06-10T02:25:05 < specing> so my chips report 32KB, but... maybe they have only 16K?
2025-06-10T02:25:47 < tpbsd> 32kb is very odd
2025-06-10T02:26:18 < tpbsd> generally they have 128kb of flash in two groups of 64kb, but one is 'hidden'
2025-06-10T02:26:57 < specing> tpbsd: c6t6 is a low density part
2025-06-10T02:27:05 < tpbsd> specing, ahh
2025-06-10T02:27:38 < tpbsd> specing, if it's really 32kb then the bliepill diags wont load as it needs 64kb
2025-06-10T02:27:38 < specing> apparently they go down to 16KB
2025-06-10T02:28:13 < specing> hah, and on that page they praise their forth for fitting where others dont
2025-06-10T02:28:34 < specing> https://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/wiki/STM32-Fakes
2025-06-10T02:28:34 < tpbsd> it's my design
2025-06-10T02:28:36 < specing> this is what I used
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2025-06-10T02:29:55 < specing> ah? I'd challenge you to make it fit into 32K but if this really has only 16K then that's... yeah, I challenge you to make it fit into 16K XD
2025-06-10T02:30:06 < tpbsd> youll neede something small if it really only has 32kb flash
2025-06-10T02:30:20 < specing> c6t6 has only 32K yeah, that's by official spec
2025-06-10T02:30:29 < tpbsd> I can easily fit into 20kb
2025-06-10T02:30:39 < tpbsd> so I can run it from ram
2025-06-10T02:31:03 < tpbsd> but I put a lot of doc and help into the release to assist users
2025-06-10T02:31:18 < specing> ah, strings
2025-06-10T02:31:38 < tpbsd> yeah, text takes up massive room
2025-06-10T02:32:06 < tpbsd> it also has a lot of labelled register prints for development
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2025-06-10T02:33:40 < tpbsd> thats the reason it takes up 64k, I filled everything above 20kb with development aids
2025-06-10T02:34:47 < specing> tpbsd: could make a python host-side program to stream commands to it, so the UI can be huge and bloated
2025-06-10T02:35:28 < tpbsd> go then :)
2025-06-10T02:37:40 < tpbsd> I welcome the competition
2025-06-10T02:38:40 < tpbsd> I released it around 2018 and still get about 6 downloads a day. SF sent me a 10,000 badge about a year ago
2025-06-10T02:40:41 < tpbsd> maybe you can get an article on it in Hackaday also ? https://hackaday.com/2021/06/23/test-your-blue-pill-board-for-a-genuine-stm32f103c8-mcu/
2025-06-10T02:41:04 < specing> naaaaaaaa I don't want to NIH
2025-06-10T02:41:29 < specing> I just wanted to see if these chips work before using them for my own projects
2025-06-10T02:41:56 < tpbsd> of course
2025-06-10T02:42:17 < specing> now i'm doctoring the .hex file tosee if I can flash beyond 16K..
2025-06-10T02:42:27 < specing> but st-flash is whining, brb
2025-06-10T02:42:47 < tpbsd> specing, it turns out the Chinese clones are faster, better, have no silicon bugs and are cheaper and available
2025-06-10T02:42:58 < tpbsd> who new ?
2025-06-10T02:43:51 < specing> noone found any errata in them, yet?
2025-06-10T02:43:55 < specing> err, bugs..
2025-06-10T02:44:18 < tpbsd> all of the Chinese stlink units, the ones that look like a usb stick all have a APM32F103 clone of the STM32F103 and they run the stlink firmware from STm
2025-06-10T02:44:29 < specing> One of these bluepills has the IDCODE bug(?) fixed, though I see this bug only mentioned for *CDE chips (the high density ones)
2025-06-10T02:45:26 < specing> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/751a2fb6/   2 dumps from two chips
2025-06-10T02:45:26 < tpbsd> the STM32F103 have a huge number of silicon bugs that were never fixed
2025-06-10T02:45:51 < tpbsd> it took the Chinese clones to fix them
2025-06-10T02:52:17 < qyx> nobody is gonna fix bugs on an obsolete product
2025-06-10T02:52:29 < qyx> especially if firmware features depend on them
2025-06-10T02:57:13 < specing> the thing is, stm32f103 is not obsolete - there's nothing to replace it in the price range, is there?
2025-06-10T02:57:25 < tpbsd> qyx, sure, in fact my bluepill diags depends on at least one of the stm32f1x silicon bugs
2025-06-10T02:58:03 < tpbsd> it's not obsolete because of all the Chinese clones more than anything
2025-06-10T02:58:20 < tpbsd> Im sure STm would love it to be obsolete
2025-06-10T02:58:49 < specing> is production of genuine f103 still running?
2025-06-10T02:59:08 < tpbsd> specing, who knows ?
2025-06-10T02:59:48 < tpbsd> specing, the price of genuine STM32F103 has been going up at the resellers such as arrpw.com for ages
2025-06-10T03:00:19 < tpbsd> arrow.com
2025-06-10T03:01:11 < specing> if its still for sale then it must be comng frm somewhere...
2025-06-10T03:03:00 < tpbsd> yeah, looks like theyre still in production
2025-06-10T03:03:13 < tpbsd> farnell want £6.220 for one
2025-06-10T03:07:45 < specing> wow, expensive
2025-06-10T03:08:49 < tpbsd> I tried arrow.com first  as farnell is expensive anyway, but arrow has some web issue atm
2025-06-10T03:10:05 < specing> tpbsd: hmm, st-flash has no issues flashing all 32K
2025-06-10T03:10:29 < specing> and it verifies
2025-06-10T03:10:36 < specing> :204000007374696E672025756B42205352414D2028656E646C657373206C6F6F70292E2EFA
2025-06-10T03:10:38 < specing> :205000007374696E672025756B42205352414D2028656E646C657373206C6F6F70292E2EFA
2025-06-10T03:10:40 < specing> :206000007374696E672025756B42205352414D2028656E646C657373206C6F6F70292E2EFA
2025-06-10T03:10:42 < specing> :207000007374696E672025756B42205352414D2028656E646C657373206C6F6F70292E2EFA
2025-06-10T03:10:49 < specing> this is what I doctored into the .hex btw
2025-06-10T03:12:05 < tpbsd> the APM32F103C8T6 is $0.8737USD ea at https://lcsc.com/search?q=apm32f103&s_z=n_apm32f103
2025-06-10T03:16:28 < specing> tpbsd: do you do any advanced tests, like obscure usart modes or ADC/DAC linearity and whatnot?
2025-06-10T03:17:40 < tpbsd> no, I dont even use the STM32F103 or clones myself, Im only into STM32F051 and MSP430
2025-06-10T03:18:18 < specing> wonder if greaseweazle's blinky actually tries writing 64KB-page instead of 32KB-page...
2025-06-10T03:18:33 < specing> or maybe flash reprogramming is actually broken on the clone, do you test that?
2025-06-10T03:20:46 < tpbsd> ive never even had a clone in my possession, the owners do that
2025-06-10T03:21:24 < specing> "the owners"
2025-06-10T03:21:26 < specing> ?
2025-06-10T03:21:30 < specing> and.. huh?
2025-06-10T03:22:36 < tpbsd> lol, actually, come to think of it I do own ten APM32F103 clones, theyre inside my 10 STLINK units ($2 each from China)
2025-06-10T03:23:36 < tpbsd> specing, owners of bluepills downloas my diags to run on their boards, always because their boards dont work normally and they suspect they have a clone
2025-06-10T03:30:38 < tpbsd> specing, I dont even have a bluepill board, only some genuine STM32F103 chips
2025-06-10T03:33:16 < specing> tpbsd: interesting
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2025-06-10T03:51:44 < specing> so exception #5 is a bus fault?  (as in, uint8_t casted read of PSR)  (just checking if im reading the docs correctly, havent done this in a while)
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2025-06-10T04:06:19 < tpbsd> specing, the arrow.com web site is back up :) they have amongst the lowest prices and a single $STM32F103C8T6 in 48-Pin LQFP costs $1.7009 USD
2025-06-10T04:07:18 < tpbsd> so the Chinese clone is half price, runs at 96MHz and has no silicon faults
2025-06-10T04:14:18 < specing> nice
2025-06-10T04:14:26 < specing> except this bus fault..
2025-06-10T04:14:58 < specing> tpbsd: that website of yours gave me an idea.. maybe the c6t6 has a second hidden 32K flash block?
2025-06-10T04:15:53 < specing> tried adding :209000003038780A002072343A20202530387820202072353A2020253038782020207236 to blinky and flashing with st-flash --flash=128k write  blinky-test-f1-1.6.hex 0x8000000
2025-06-10T04:15:59 < tpbsd> specing, I've heard that STM only made 64KB dies and just marked the 'flash area' accordingly
2025-06-10T04:16:21 < specing> but, it seems to ignore the 0x9000 data
2025-06-10T04:16:45 < tpbsd> specing, so mayve the 16kb version has 3 hidden 16kb blocks ?
2025-06-10T04:17:10 < specing> 3 ???
2025-06-10T04:17:18 < specing> ah...
2025-06-10T04:17:20 < tpbsd> as in a total of 128kb
2025-06-10T04:17:25 < tpbsd> oops
2025-06-10T04:17:40 < tpbsd> specing, I've heard that STM only made 128KB dies and just marked the 'flash area' accordingly
2025-06-10T04:17:45 < specing> well.. what you said maks little sense because then those chips wouldn't have 2 blocks of 64
2025-06-10T04:17:49 < specing> ah!
2025-06-10T04:17:54 < specing> 2025-06-10T03:12:54 INFO common.c: Finished erasing 31 pages of 1024 (0x400) bytes
2025-06-10T04:17:57 < specing> why not 32?
2025-06-10T04:18:11 < tpbsd> different dies cost money
2025-06-10T04:18:25 < tpbsd> to maintain etc
2025-06-10T04:18:28 < specing> I mean, why doesen't st-flash erase 32 pages
2025-06-10T04:18:51 < specing> missing erase for 0x7a00
2025-06-10T04:19:00 < tpbsd> it's the flash controller that controls the erase size
2025-06-10T04:19:01 < specing> err, 7c00
2025-06-10T04:19:55 < specing> I see. It originally erased only 13 pages, guess I need to doctor the last bits too
2025-06-10T04:20:09  * specing makes a random 64K file *sigh*
2025-06-10T04:20:30 < specing> actually, no, dont want it executing who knows what
2025-06-10T04:20:35 < tpbsd> just flash the bluepill diags :)
2025-06-10T04:20:42 < specing> ...yes
2025-06-10T04:21:05 < tpbsd> then you can talk to the board via usb and a serial terminal
2025-06-10T04:21:49 < tpbsd> and run the hidden block 64kb test, which does a alternating bit pattern test on each byte
2025-06-10T04:22:24 < specing> USB as in its native interface? That'd be cool, my serial setup is flimsy AF atm (requires me to hold a pin pressed..)
2025-06-10T04:22:36 < tpbsd> yes
2025-06-10T04:22:47 < tpbsd> as in the default blue pill usb
2025-06-10T04:23:20 < tpbsd> just plug it into a usb cable to your pc and run a terminal emulator 
2025-06-10T04:23:32 < specing> tpbsd: btw, "st-flash erase --flash=128k" gives me "invalid command line"
2025-06-10T04:24:17 < tpbsd> thats because it's reading the mcu internal 'flash size' register ?
2025-06-10T04:24:24 < specing> ah, damn
2025-06-10T04:24:26 < specing> 025-06-10T03:24:15 ERROR common.c: Verification of flash failed at offset: 32768
2025-06-10T04:25:16 < tpbsd> oh, maybe it's really a 32kb flash unit
2025-06-10T04:26:13 < specing> well
2025-06-10T04:26:49 < specing> this is the bluepill with fixed ID register (or maybe not fixed, discovery's stlink was connected to it)
2025-06-10T04:27:01 < specing> maybe the chinese dont mind making different flash dies?
2025-06-10T04:27:18 < tpbsd> does '"st-flash erase --flash=128k" overide the internal 'flash size' register ?
2025-06-10T04:27:43 < specing> tpbsd: invalid command line
2025-06-10T04:28:10 < specing> INFO common.c: Flash page at addr: 0x0800ec00 erased
2025-06-10T04:28:39 < tpbsd> so " "st-flash erase --flash=64k" would also fail ?
2025-06-10T04:28:43 < specing> so it didn't mind erasing past 32K, just verification failed. Or maybe controller knew it was a no-op and failed successfully
2025-06-10T04:28:59 < specing> tpbsd: invalid command line
2025-06-10T04:31:26 < tpbsd> that sounds like a stlink error
2025-06-10T04:32:00 < specing> tpbsd: it prints command-line help immidiately
2025-06-10T04:32:18 < specing> doubt it reaches stlink at all
2025-06-10T04:34:58 < tpbsd> i mean it sounds like a st-flash error
2025-06-10T04:35:28 < tpbsd> specing, are you familiar with the STM32F 'flash size' register ?
2025-06-10T04:35:32 < specing> y, maybe my st-flash is older (or newer)
2025-06-10T04:35:45 < specing> I've learned about it from this blinky test
2025-06-10T04:36:01 < specing> it contains "32"
2025-06-10T04:36:17 < tpbsd> st-link reads that register and assumes it's correct and acts accordingly
2025-06-10T04:36:58 < specing> then it'd stop writing past 32K and/or complain before starting to write?
2025-06-10T04:37:14 < specing> it only fails at verification stage
2025-06-10T04:37:15 < tpbsd> but if the chip contains more flash than the 'flash size' register, and you want to go past that, you have to modify the st-link program
2025-06-10T04:38:15 < specing> maybe the one my distro ships is hacked up
2025-06-10T04:38:34 < tpbsd> ahh, no youre right
2025-06-10T04:38:47 < tpbsd> I wrote back then "--flash=128k" works
2025-06-10T04:39:04 < specing> yeah, it'd make no sense for it to ignore flash size for erase and write, but not for verification
2025-06-10T04:39:13 < tpbsd> st-flash erase --flash=128k
2025-06-10T04:39:21 < tpbsd> and you tried that
2025-06-10T04:39:41 < specing> erase command does not exist
2025-06-10T04:39:51 < specing> st-flash --flash=64k write bluepill-diagnostics-v1.640.bin   0x8000000
2025-06-10T04:39:56 < specing> this is what I used
2025-06-10T04:40:23 < specing> stlink 1.7.0
2025-06-10T04:41:12 < tpbsd> erqase doesnt exist now ? it must be inbuilt into the write op
2025-06-10T04:41:27 < specing> write does erase first, yes
2025-06-10T04:41:54 < tpbsd> it didnt in v1.5
2025-06-10T04:43:13 < tpbsd> so the question is 'does --flash=64' work on a chip with 32kb programmed in the 'flash size' register
2025-06-10T04:43:36 < tpbsd> or does st-flash require some special config ?
2025-06-10T04:45:02 < specing> it works. Reports successfull erase of all 64K, reports succesfull write of all 64k, fails verification past 32K
2025-06-10T04:45:13 < tpbsd> oh wow
2025-06-10T04:45:46 < tpbsd> so diags should run ?
2025-06-10T04:47:24 < specing> tpbsd: nothing shows up on usb port
2025-06-10T04:47:59 < tpbsd> darn
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2025-06-10T12:15:17 < machinehum> Nice sbb found my bag
2025-06-10T12:15:35 < machinehum> Forgot it on the train last weekend
2025-06-10T12:17:07 < tpbsd> nice!
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2025-06-10T12:24:12 < machinehum> Yes very happy about that, I'm an idiot and forgot it. Had my passport, laptop, all my riding clothes
2025-06-10T12:24:27 < machinehum> My special SA knife a swiss dude gave me
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2025-06-10T12:27:08 < tpbsd> ... lucky!
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2025-06-10T17:23:41 < specing> tpbsd: does your firmware also produce any output on regular usart?
2025-06-10T17:23:57 < specing> (and if so, which pin is tx?) Tried a9 and got no life out of it
2025-06-10T17:24:18 < specing> Though, it's likely that it tries jumping past 32k and dies
2025-06-10T17:25:44 < jbo> machinehum, that's because we don't steal stuff
2025-06-10T17:26:28 < machinehum> Yeah I wasn't that worried about it, but still
2025-06-10T17:26:30 < jbo> a few years ago a dude lost a briefcase with close to 100k in it. random dude found it, brought it to SBB, dude got it back a day later. no money missing
2025-06-10T17:26:42 < machinehum> What lol
2025-06-10T17:26:59 < machinehum> What was he doing with a briefcase with 100k in it?
2025-06-10T17:27:01 < jbo> stealing is not cool, doesn't matter what value/amount.
2025-06-10T17:27:17 < jbo> shouldn't matter - don't steal stuff :p
2025-06-10T17:27:26 < machinehum> course
2025-06-10T17:41:14 < Steffanx> Where's our gold jbo.. :P
2025-06-10T17:41:15 < tomeaton17> jbo: what about proprietary software?
2025-06-10T17:41:30 < tomeaton17> You wouldn't steal a car...
2025-06-10T17:41:53 < Steffanx> Just ask them about Jewish gold.
2025-06-10T17:42:06 < jbo> tomeaton17, same thing. don't steal.
2025-06-10T17:42:42 < tomeaton17> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/04/you-wouldnt-steal-a-car-anti-piracy-campaign-may-have-used-pirated-fonts/
2025-06-10T17:43:51 < jbo> yeah, stealing a font - also not okay.
2025-06-10T17:45:19 < machinehum> jbo: what about gas ?
2025-06-10T17:45:26 < machinehum> If it's just a bit https://youtube.com/shorts/nbrj2Y5sVI8?si=rdcRqzpEZksap1y-
2025-06-10T17:45:49 < jbo> not okay.
2025-06-10T17:47:57 < tomeaton17> what about someones heart
2025-06-10T17:48:02 < tomeaton17> can you steal that?
2025-06-10T17:48:52 < jbo> only if it's consensual - at which point it is no longer stealing
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2025-06-10T22:00:25 < qyx> stealing is bad
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2025-06-10T22:03:25 < qyx> today I stole the $customer a bunch of test/needle hook clips
2025-06-10T22:10:09  * antto hides his money
2025-06-10T22:19:25 < Steffanx> Apparently this proves youre not swiss qyx 
2025-06-10T22:32:04 < qyx> oh that's.. why?
2025-06-10T22:47:08 < Steffanx> Apparently yes
2025-06-10T22:48:00 < qyx> anyway, I am now in a half-disassembled state, probably no innovation tonight
2025-06-10T22:48:13 < qyx> and that's sad
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2025-06-10T22:55:38 < Steffanx> What did you do to get disassembled qyx ? 
2025-06-10T22:55:54 < Steffanx> and why
2025-06-10T22:56:08 < qyx> roaming thru the country for the second day
2025-06-10T22:58:06 < Steffanx> Ah. Not that bad is it?
2025-06-10T23:11:03 < Steffanx> Or is it with the kids and all? :P
2025-06-10T23:11:35 < zyp> I found a box of stroopwafels in the store today
2025-06-10T23:12:10 < zyp> considered buying one, but then I peeked inside and saw it was only half full, and then the price seemed unreasonably high, so I passed
2025-06-10T23:13:38 < Steffanx> Such disappointment. The half empty box 
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2025-06-11T02:37:10 < jbo> awww
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2025-06-11T16:20:28 < tomeaton17> Anyone know any good custom transformer manufacturers?
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2025-06-11T17:01:45 < karlp> tomeaton17: I've worked with these guys in the past: http://nordtek.dk/
2025-06-11T17:03:06 < karlp> also these guys have done custom stuff for us in the past, were pretty good: https://www.zntar.com/
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2025-06-11T17:35:47 < tomeaton17> karlp: cheers I will have a chat with them
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2025-06-11T19:31:13 < karlp> zntar at least are predominately in the current transformer market, not "regular transformers"
2025-06-11T19:31:18 < karlp> nordtek does everything.
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2025-06-11T20:48:47 < qyx> helo commercial pros, anyone ever licensed a hw design to someone else?
2025-06-11T20:51:25 -!- qyx_ [~qyx@84.245.121.28] has joined ##stm32
2025-06-11T20:51:32 < qyx_> so, once again
2025-06-11T20:53:21 -!- qyx [~qyx@84.245.121.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
2025-06-11T20:53:24 < jpa-> only in the sense that i have sometimes priced hobby project stuff as "prior development" in consulting
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2025-06-11T21:11:14 < qyx_> oh 80% of stuff I do is prior development :>
2025-06-11T21:11:17 -!- qyx_ is now known as qyx
2025-06-11T21:11:21 < Steffanx> Do the usually get the sources etc. of the things you made for your clients?
2025-06-11T21:11:24 < Steffanx> *they
2025-06-11T21:12:08 < machinehum> Sadly laptop was not in bag when I got it back
2025-06-11T21:12:32 < machinehum> Promptly bought a net t14 ryzen 7
2025-06-11T21:12:33 < qyx> Steffanx: for me, I explicitly state which parts are done for future reuse and/or as a contribution to open sourc eprojects
2025-06-11T21:12:37 < machinehum> new
2025-06-11T21:13:14 < Steffanx> I heard swissers dont steal so it must be there machinehum  :P
2025-06-11T21:13:21 < Steffanx> (or it wasnt a swisser)
2025-06-11T21:13:38 < machinehum> Almost certainly not a swisser
2025-06-11T21:13:50 < machinehum> Well maybe a really greasy one
2025-06-11T21:14:11 < machinehum> Maybe jbo just took it, next time we see each other it will have freebsd 14.3 on it
2025-06-11T21:14:58 < Steffanx> So that's before March 2026?
2025-06-11T21:15:24 < Steffanx> qyx: but they do get the sources of it all?
2025-06-11T21:17:06 < Steffanx> oh maybe its December 2025. Then its FreeBSD 15.0 time.
2025-06-11T21:17:47 < qyx> Steffanx: if it was made as a contribution to an opensource project, as the license says, future clients will have it available
2025-06-11T21:20:31 < Steffanx> Im not sure how open source your projects usually are. At $work clients usually get "ownership" of all sources, except for the already licenses libs ofcourse.
2025-06-11T21:21:36 < jbo> FreeBSD 14 will be supported until November 2028
2025-06-11T21:21:44 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2025-06-11T21:21:46 < jbo> FreeBSD 15 is scheduled for December 2025
2025-06-11T21:22:27 < Steffanx> Welcome jbo.
2025-06-11T21:25:33 < jbo> Thank you
2025-06-11T21:47:51 < qyx> Steffanx: there are projects in both regimes
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 12 2025
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2025-06-12T01:17:04 < nomorekaki> nightpumps
2025-06-12T01:19:04 < ventyl> sup
2025-06-12T01:19:18 < nomorekaki> hello
2025-06-12T01:19:51 < ventyl> snafu-derive
2025-06-12T01:19:57 < nomorekaki> how is summer in ventyl place?
2025-06-12T01:19:59 < ventyl> i wonder what this thing does
2025-06-12T01:20:12 < ventyl> we don't have summer yet
2025-06-12T01:20:16 < ventyl> luckilly
2025-06-12T01:20:34 < ventyl> and global warming caused all my cherry flowers to freeze during blooming
2025-06-12T01:20:44 < ventyl> so this year I'll have 4 less cherries than last year
2025-06-12T01:22:57 < nomorekaki> wtf no summer.. for certain karlp and me are the most northernmost here
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2025-06-12T01:23:17 < nomorekaki> and it's solid 15C summer here
2025-06-12T01:23:32 < nomorekaki> maybe 20C some days
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2025-06-12T01:27:28 < ventyl> I'd still call it late spring
2025-06-12T01:27:48 < ventyl> summer begins when the temperature won't drop below 20C all the night :>
2025-06-12T01:28:02 < qyx> idk but that's already here
2025-06-12T01:28:06 < qyx> *was
2025-06-12T01:28:08 < qyx> last week
2025-06-12T01:28:34 < nomorekaki> I wound call it summer because of the increased moist
2025-06-12T01:28:53 < nomorekaki> spring is dry and cloudless and windy
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2025-06-12T01:29:10 < nomorekaki> summer is when it starts raining and cummulus appears
2025-06-12T01:29:58 < nomorekaki> mosquitos and all the crawlers, weeds are fully grown already etc.
2025-06-12T01:30:30 < nomorekaki> trees have full leaf cover
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2025-06-12T01:47:09 < nomorekaki> thermal summer in finland according to finnish meterological institute is when daily average temperature rises above +10C
2025-06-12T01:48:20 < nomorekaki> so it has been summer for over a month or something already
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2025-06-12T07:51:10 < antto> summer is when the neighbours start pimping up their apartments: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/78/4f/38784f710d1e849af4d4a68f980ffefc.jpg
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2025-06-12T11:58:05 < tomeaton17> Its really kicking off in northern ireland
2025-06-12T12:07:03 < tomeaton17> someone is making a yookay etf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtMbmtOXAAAT3Ji?format=png&name=900x900 lolrence would like this one
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2025-06-12T15:58:14 < PhantomWork> question:  volatile uint32_t foo;      main loop: foo++;       timer interrrupt: foo=0;           <=== can foo be corrupted due to the interrupt? Basically making a cpu usage thing. I get 65% idle, but it also jump to 131%   so it seems like the main loop foo++ is not atomic?
2025-06-12T16:13:55 < ventyl> foo++ is not an atomic function on cortex-m
2025-06-12T16:14:22 < ventyl> at least not v6m and v7m, IDK if v8m contains support fot atomic operations but I guess not
2025-06-12T16:21:31 < ventyl> even if it did an ordinary variable increment is not an atomic operation by default
2025-06-12T16:22:31 < PhantomWork> ok thanks
2025-06-12T16:23:24 < PhantomWork> that explain the weird thing I had... which mean I should do this differently as to not disable the interrupts 1/4 of the time...
2025-06-12T16:23:27 < ventyl> you can disable / enable interrupts around this action
2025-06-12T16:43:42 < PhantomWork> idle: 85%    I'm surprised that it is so idle
2025-06-12T16:44:35 < ventyl> that depends on what it does, what chip it is and at what frequency does it run
2025-06-12T16:45:25 < PhantomWork> yeah, thing is, I optimised nothing, far from it. All I did is avoid float, somehow stuff crashed so I just avoided it
2025-06-12T16:45:33 < PhantomWork> that's the only optimisation I did
2025-06-12T16:50:54 < jpa-> PhantomWork: you can use __atomic_add_fetch()
2025-06-12T16:50:57 < ventyl> well, the thing is that basically any STM32 can run at 16MHz and it does so in 32-bit mode
2025-06-12T16:51:09 < ventyl> that's more processing power than 386 had
2025-06-12T16:51:59 < PhantomWork> yeah   and this one run at 72
2025-06-12T16:59:56 < PhantomWork> but it still process 273 Rx Can messages, transmit 300, plus transmit a wall of debug text, like 10-15kB, every second second....    but I also broke the code it seems... grr
2025-06-12T17:00:42 < PhantomWork> oh yeah I know where I broke it, duh...
2025-06-12T17:10:09 < tomeaton17> boeing stock took a bit of a hit after that 
2025-06-12T17:10:24 < tomeaton17> looks like a double engine failure
2025-06-12T17:31:37 < jbo> you're welcome, Steffanx 
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2025-06-12T18:23:46 < Steffanx> Welcome for what Mr sir jbo ?
2025-06-12T18:25:11 < jbo> thank you!
2025-06-12T18:44:03 < Steffanx> Is Mr jbo alright?
2025-06-12T18:46:49 < jbo> definitely
2025-06-12T18:46:50 < jbo> there?
2025-06-12T18:50:41 < Steffanx> Sure 
2025-06-12T18:50:46 < Steffanx> Thanks 
2025-06-12T19:35:39 < jbo> you're welcome!
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2025-06-12T20:42:23 < Steffanx> Early night Mr nomorekaki 
2025-06-12T20:42:40 < nomorekaki> early pump
2025-06-12T20:44:49 < nomorekaki> movie
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2025-06-12T21:24:32 < ventyl> why my timer power outlet has correct time?
2025-06-12T21:24:36 < ventyl> it should be in winter time
2025-06-12T21:26:52 < Steffanx> Yeah, why is it, ventyl ?
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2025-06-12T21:37:26 < ventyl> I'd expect it to be set to winter time
2025-06-12T21:37:57 < karlp> bargains on ali this week: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007899496287.html
2025-06-12T21:44:41 < PhantomWork> Does anyone have on hand a circular buffer lib for CAN that is interrupt based on hand?
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2025-06-12T21:47:43 < Steffanx> Ill get me a glass fibre fpv drone thingy instead karlp  https://aliexpress.com/item/1005009016376262.html
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--- Day changed Fri Jun 13 2025
2025-06-13T00:12:21 < bitmask> hmm, how long is flight from new york to hawaii
2025-06-13T00:12:26 < jbo> yes
2025-06-13T00:12:50 < bitmask> 10-11 hours
2025-06-13T00:12:51 < bitmask> damn
2025-06-13T00:23:02 < jbo> time to get a new macbook
2025-06-13T00:25:46 < bitmask> me or you?
2025-06-13T00:33:20 < bitmask> you can have mine and I'll get a new one
2025-06-13T00:33:32 < bitmask> paid for by you
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2025-06-13T00:41:01 < nomorekaki> daymn.. movie with finnish dub is not a good sign for me
2025-06-13T00:41:57 < nomorekaki> it's for people that cant read subs
2025-06-13T00:42:18 < bitmask> i hate dubbing
2025-06-13T00:42:38 < nomorekaki> it's for kids
2025-06-13T00:43:24 < bitmask> i hate kids
2025-06-13T00:43:31 < nomorekaki> good good
2025-06-13T00:43:33 < bitmask> :)
2025-06-13T00:45:36 < karlp> Steffanx: so... is that stuff on ali so russians can buy it?
2025-06-13T00:45:51 < karlp>  I mean, I can't see a lot of market for consumers buying fibre drones...
2025-06-13T00:48:44 < karlp> none of this can be realistically re-reeled for "submersible" or anything like they're also talking about..
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2025-06-13T10:35:03 < Steffanx> karlp: heh I don't know. It was in the related items list of the item you linked
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2025-06-13T11:25:42 < tomeaton17> karlp: lovely bit of silicon 
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2025-06-13T11:32:36 < tomeaton17> https://x.com/FPGAX_/status/1932137322600177809 cant imagine how much glenair would charge for that curved connector
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2025-06-13T11:33:34 < tomeaton17> https://x.com/FPGAX_/status/1931029973550448910 russians try to use a connector challenge, impossible
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2025-06-13T18:16:03 < tomeaton17> has everyone gone home early today
2025-06-13T18:25:36 < jbo> no, I am about to leave home for work in an hour
2025-06-13T18:26:35 < tomeaton17> quiet day today
2025-06-13T18:37:33 < qyx> no innovation
2025-06-13T18:38:34 < tomeaton17> I have already innovated too hard this week
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2025-06-13T19:13:48 < Steffanx> Keep it in the pants tomeaton17 
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2025-06-13T21:15:03 < jpa-> meh, something is randomly corrupting flash on one STM32F405; three other devices work fine with the same firmware
2025-06-13T21:16:06 < Steffanx> This is not your bike controller again I assume?
2025-06-13T21:16:19 < jpa-> it is
2025-06-13T21:17:54 < jpa-> this time first 28 bytes of flash got written to 0x00
2025-06-13T21:19:45 < jpa-> previous time it was 4 bytes in middle of flash
2025-06-13T21:21:31 < specing> hmm
2025-06-13T21:21:45 < specing> jpa-: do you use the flash for logging data?
2025-06-13T21:22:04 < specing> oh three other devices do work..
2025-06-13T21:22:13 < jpa-> i do
2025-06-13T21:22:26 < specing> you have a bug? ;P
2025-06-13T21:22:35 < specing> an elusive one
2025-06-13T21:22:55 < jpa-> yeah, that's kind of my primary suspect
2025-06-13T21:24:11 < jpa-> https://github.com/PetteriAimonen/ebike-controller/blob/master/src/settings.c   this is the flash writing code
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2025-06-13T21:35:21 < jpa-> i guess i'll add some extra boundary checks to flash_write
2025-06-13T21:42:01 < jpa-> hmm.. there was a spider and a loose screw in the enclosure
2025-06-13T21:42:22 < jpa-> those may not improve reliablity either, though i don't think they'd corrupt flash
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2025-06-13T22:17:58 < qyx> can't you lock the firmware on boot?
2025-06-13T22:18:35 < qyx> ok F4 probably have no such thing
2025-06-13T22:22:41 < jpa-> there are write protect bits in the option bytes, but i haven't bothered
2025-06-13T22:23:00 < jpa-> in particular because i think openocd will freak out if i set them ;)
2025-06-13T23:01:51 < qyx> Run IE broswer on computer and input the default IP (192.168.155.155) into address bar
2025-06-13T23:01:58 < qyx> is it 2005 or so?
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2025-06-13T23:30:47 < qyx> Please note that the contents of this document
2025-06-13T23:30:47 < qyx> shall not be quoted in any publication
2025-06-13T23:30:50 < qyx> sure.
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2025-06-14T23:36:31 < jbo> what's up night crew?
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--- Day changed Sun Jun 15 2025
2025-06-15T00:01:04 < qyx> sleepin'
2025-06-15T00:30:57 < Steffanx> Pizza?
2025-06-15T00:33:03 < jbo> no pizza
2025-06-15T00:36:49 < machinehum> maybe pizza
2025-06-15T00:37:35 < jbo> why are you not asleep?
2025-06-15T00:37:57 < machinehum> Time for beir 2
2025-06-15T00:37:59 < Steffanx> Why are you not asleep 
2025-06-15T00:38:54 < machinehum> Party time Steffanx 
2025-06-15T00:39:26 < Steffanx> Will you invite jbo?
2025-06-15T00:39:44 < machinehum> jbo: is always intvited
2025-06-15T00:40:02 < jbo> nah
2025-06-15T00:40:10 < jbo> I'm not fun at parties
2025-06-15T00:42:30 < machinehum> just learn party tricks idiot
2025-06-15T00:43:20 < jbo> I do not appreciate this kind of language from a stranger
2025-06-15T00:43:46 < machinehum> 4.2%
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2025-06-15T00:46:42 < Steffanx> Do you have a secret stash machinehum ? Time to smoke one
2025-06-15T01:03:51 < machinehum> Steffanx: What you need?
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2025-06-15T02:31:53 < qyx> oh drama
2025-06-15T02:40:45 < jbo> drama everywhere
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2025-06-15T12:06:08 < Steffanx> I need nothing machinehum :)
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2025-06-15T14:05:50 < qyx> and now when drones are practically illegal, I can finally build one
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2025-06-15T17:40:06 < jbo> great
2025-06-15T18:10:49 < Steffanx> Awesome 
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2025-06-15T19:43:02 < zyp> I got a drone license a couple of years ago, still haven't used it for anything :p
2025-06-15T19:46:52 < zyp> the «open category A1/A3» thing
2025-06-15T19:53:04 < qyx> online one?
2025-06-15T19:53:09 < zyp> yeah
2025-06-15T19:54:59 < zyp> A1 is «too light to be a significant danger», A3 is «far enough away to not be a significant danger», hence fairly light requirements for those
2025-06-15T19:55:54 < zyp> A2 is «fairly heavy and fairly close» and requires showing up in person to take a test
2025-06-15T19:57:11 < qyx> idk I will probably do the C3 thing, diy under 25 kg? and I am not sure which one I need for that
2025-06-15T19:57:48 < zyp> DIY under 25kg falls under A3
2025-06-15T19:58:08 < zyp> DIY under 250g can also go under A1
2025-06-15T19:58:08 < qyx> yeah but C3 drone category
2025-06-15T19:58:34 < zyp> DIY drones don't get a C class
2025-06-15T20:00:05 < zyp> https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/domains/drones-air-mobility/operating-drone/open-category-low-risk-civil-drones
2025-06-15T20:03:17 < zyp> AIUI the only major difference between DIY and C-classed drones are that there's no DIY options corresponding to C1/C2
2025-06-15T20:04:24 < zyp> i.e. a 500g drone that'd fall under C1 if it were approved would still have to be flown under A3 restrictions when DIY
2025-06-15T20:26:18 < qyx> hm
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2025-06-16T10:38:58 < qyx> TIL tio --log --log-strip --timestamp --timestamp-format=iso8601 /dev/ttyACM0
2025-06-16T10:39:17 < qyx> why it took me years to find this tool
2025-06-16T11:04:40 < mawk> nice
2025-06-16T11:04:55 < mawk> for timestamping stuff quickly I use | ts usually
2025-06-16T11:05:16 < mawk> blabla | ts '[%H:%M:%S]' | tee logfile.log
2025-06-16T11:05:20 < mawk> something like this
2025-06-16T11:05:37 < mawk> and it works with picocom
2025-06-16T11:06:12 < mawk> I guess tio is similar to picocom
2025-06-16T11:19:10 < tpbsd>  mawk, tio looks good, builds easily and quickly, way more sophisticated than picocom
2025-06-16T11:20:23 < tpbsd> https://github.com/tio/tio
2025-06-16T11:27:40 < mawk> basically like minicom then
2025-06-16T11:28:34 < mawk> idk how more sophisticated than picocom it is, if I compare the two man pages it looks very similar in usage and functionality
2025-06-16T11:28:43 < tpbsd> no, tio seems really slick and modern
2025-06-16T11:28:53 < machinehum> Can you do profiles with picom?
2025-06-16T11:29:03 < machinehum> Seems like a nice feature
2025-06-16T11:29:18 < tpbsd> no, picocom is really basic
2025-06-16T11:29:19 < mawk> what do you mean by profile?
2025-06-16T11:29:26 < mawk> that's not a lot of argumentation tpbsd lol
2025-06-16T11:29:58 < tpbsd> mawk, this isnt a debate, it's only my opinion
2025-06-16T11:31:09 < mawk> they look the same, have basically the same feature set, the same way of controlling
2025-06-16T11:32:03 < machinehum> mawk: There's a ~/.tioconfig for setting up different devices. To some that might be useful.
2025-06-16T11:32:49 < machinehum> I'll give it a go, normally I just use screen which is very simple
2025-06-16T11:37:01 < tpbsd> timestamps, color, sockets, rs485, RTS timing control are some of the tio differences to picom which is circa 2016 ?
2025-06-16T11:37:17 < tpbsd> tio is 2024 from the man page
2025-06-16T11:40:08 < tpbsd> machinehum, I used to use screen terminal a lot but it's a bit buggy, old and had some flow control issues. especially on FreeBSD where it refused to run at more than 400k baud
2025-06-16T11:40:43 < tpbsd> thesedays I use a terminal over SWD instead, and that gives me about 1Mbaud
2025-06-16T11:41:27 < machinehum> What you doing with all the baud?
2025-06-16T11:42:05 < tpbsd> uploading to  STM32F051 ram
2025-06-16T11:42:21 < machinehum> Makes sense
2025-06-16T11:42:29 < tpbsd> it's Forth source, I upload after every test and code change
2025-06-16T11:42:48 < tpbsd> generally the upload takes about 0.2 seconds
2025-06-16T11:43:40 < tpbsd> it's too fast to read on the terminal so I have a beep if there is a compiler error or warning
2025-06-16T11:44:07 < tpbsd> and Ive the slow version because a stlink-v3 will upload at 25MHz
2025-06-16T11:44:31 < tpbsd> but Id need to be developing on a H7xx to take advantage of that
2025-06-16T11:48:05 < machinehum> Neat
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2025-06-16T13:14:39 < karlp> tio has one big downside compared to picocom: you can't change baud rate while running.
2025-06-16T13:14:45 < karlp> but otherwise nice, yeah.
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2025-06-16T14:06:37 < qyx> much better than screen I was using until now
2025-06-16T14:06:49 < qyx> ok the meeting organizer is late to the party
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2025-06-16T18:35:28 < tomeaton17> Anyone know how to change the default layer stack in Altium when you are creating a new component?
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2025-06-16T19:47:19 < jbo> machinehum, picocom profiles: shell script with corresponding arguments :p
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2025-06-16T20:09:07 < machinehum> true
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2025-06-16T21:13:50 < Steffanx> hm
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2025-06-16T23:15:55 < machinehum> hm is correct
2025-06-16T23:16:01 < machinehum> My panel seems to be almost working
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2025-06-16T23:35:07 < Steffanx> Panel?
2025-06-16T23:36:43 < machinehum> 480x480 mipi-dsi screen
2025-06-16T23:37:05 < machinehum> I was just staring at dts shit for like an hour and all "panel" there
2025-06-16T23:37:19 < machinehum> It's called panel there
2025-06-16T23:40:33 < qyx> is it that common 3.5" "rpi" one?
2025-06-16T23:40:40 < qyx> oh I have 720x720
2025-06-16T23:44:58 < machinehum> Nah
2025-06-16T23:45:00 < machinehum> https://www.displaymodule.com/products/3-4-inch-480x480-tft-display-mipi-dm-tft34-485?srsltid=AfmBOoqseOiBvIe5saTtMuzkTxrilCnjfCvA7J1bf3WPzmRNxkEfwSPN
2025-06-16T23:46:19 < machinehum> It uses a st7701, which is a pretty common display controller. But drivers/gpu/drm/panel/panel-sitronix-st7701.c didn't have my display so I'm patching it right now
2025-06-16T23:46:29 < machinehum> I think 50$ is pretty steep for that part
2025-06-16T23:48:42 < machinehum> The selling of the display was nice enough to give me some pseudocode which I did my best to translate into the driver
2025-06-16T23:48:50 < machinehum> seller*
2025-06-16T23:51:59 < ventyl> was there a lot of work needed? that chip is quite parametrized, isn't it?
2025-06-16T23:52:23 < ventyl> so you basically deliver display resolution, configuration and the type of interface the driver is connected to and it works
2025-06-16T23:53:20 < machinehum> I can't really give you a good answer because it doesn't work yet, and most of what I did was just pattern matching. But took maybe 3-4hrs
2025-06-16T23:57:25 < ventyl> eadog display I used years ago had IIRC sst7706 which should be pretty much the same beast
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 17 2025
2025-06-17T00:02:42 < machinehum> Similar dsi display controller?
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2025-06-17T00:36:36 < zyp> I quite like the 800x1280 DSI panel I've been playing with recently, although I haven't dabbled much with the lowlevel details yet
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2025-06-17T00:42:48 < machinehum> What's the part zyp ?
2025-06-17T00:43:58 < machinehum> cat /dev/random > /dev/fb0 does nothing with errors. This seems like it might be more annoying.
2025-06-17T00:44:04 < machinehum> with no error*
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2025-06-17T12:45:29 < qyx> machinehum: probably /dev/urandom is the right one
2025-06-17T12:48:30 < qyx> oh probably the same now
2025-06-17T12:49:13 < qyx> oh no, changed in 4.8
2025-06-17T12:49:17 < qyx> yeah urandom you want
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2025-06-17T14:18:35 < qyx> upgrading the new riglol
2025-06-17T14:40:13 < machinehum> I don't think it would matter for a quick test?
2025-06-17T14:40:26 < machinehum> /dev/random blocks... oh maybe
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2025-06-17T14:43:22 < machinehum> But okay yes seems like urandom for everything
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2025-06-17T14:51:27 < qyx> yeah random blocks until enough entropy is available, for a framebuffer sized output you would wait a bit too long
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