--- Log opened la elo 01 00:00:45 2026
2026-08-01T00:04:05 < catphish> something as simple as this would be ideal https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1U-19inch-MIni-ITX-rack-mount_60813568431.html
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2026-08-01T15:02:58 < catphish> Today's completely unhinged Claude request - plugged this in and asked it wo write a full test suite and spec measurement tool using the available hardware https://i.ibb.co/vC8RQgMq/PXL-20260801-115935403.jpg
2026-08-01T15:03:23 < catphish> no hints, just told it i wanted to test the DAC, will see what does
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2026-08-01T17:06:20 < catphish> worked beautifully
2026-08-01T17:41:27 < Steffanx> LLM the new Arduino. 
2026-08-01T17:54:14 < catphish> lol
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2026-08-01T18:11:10 < mawk> how can this be satisfying catphish 
2026-08-01T18:11:15 < mawk> unless the goal is just to make money I guess 
2026-08-01T18:12:56 < catphish> mawk: writing tests just isn't that fun for me, and this particular project is purely commercial, as much as i enjoyed parts of it
2026-08-01T18:13:37 < catphish> that doesn't mean i'll do a worse job of it, but it means i won't waste time lovingly handcrafting things that can just be a quick automated job
2026-08-01T18:13:51 < mawk> sure
2026-08-01T18:14:09 < mawk> but I don't see why people would limit that only to tests
2026-08-01T18:14:22 < mawk> bean counters will force it for everything 
2026-08-01T18:17:27 < catphish> it's certainly accelerating, and doing a good job of an increasing number of things - personally i try to limit it to reviews and tests
2026-08-01T18:17:46 < mawk> it's the apocalypse 
2026-08-01T18:18:12 < mawk> at least my manager understands the value of keeping around at least some old-fashioned developers who can actually write code
2026-08-01T18:18:20 < mawk> so I'm the official analog programmer
2026-08-01T18:28:42 < Steffanx> You colleagues generate entire source files/projects with it mawk? Or just some assistance?
2026-08-01T18:30:34 < mawk> currently it's "some" varying level of assistance 
2026-08-01T18:30:51 < mawk> but one of them is now just copy pasting the LLM code without doing it himself anymore 
2026-08-01T18:30:58 < mawk> and can't really explain the details
2026-08-01T18:41:46 < mercenary> so has management decided to cut that human out of the loop yet, and give the LLM commit rights to the master branch?
2026-08-01T19:21:47 < qyx> my LLM usage is last-mile only
2026-08-01T19:22:10 < qyx> it is just my very capable ADHD intern/junior programmer
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2026-08-01T19:31:18 < mawk> fortunately we still need reviews for that mercenary 
2026-08-01T19:31:27 < mawk> but some colleagues are delegating the review to AI
2026-08-01T19:31:46 < mawk> if 3 of them do that and then approve the pull request, then no human will have laid eyes on the code
2026-08-01T19:44:28 < mercenary> that is still fine, there are still humans around to put the blame on. once that process is fully automated, blame shifts to management
2026-08-01T19:45:30 < mercenary> (also, does every PR need 3 approvals?)
2026-08-01T19:45:45 < mawk> PR to the master branch yes
2026-08-01T19:45:52 < mawk> it's a medical product
2026-08-01T19:45:58 < mawk> we like to not kill people 
2026-08-01T19:46:14 < mawk> PRs to other branches need 2
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--- Day changed su elo 02 2026
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2026-08-02T01:19:22 < nomorekaki> hello nightparty
2026-08-02T01:19:39 < nomorekaki> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j16eA0ji6Y0 I found musics
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2026-08-02T02:43:47 < Steffanx> Hello nomorekaki . Long time no see. Glad to see you're still alive.
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--- Day changed ma elo 03 2026
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2026-08-03T00:29:32 < nomorekaki> night32
2026-08-03T00:33:03 < nomorekaki> are you having holidays now?
2026-08-03T00:34:00 < nomorekaki> I have learned in mid europ august is holidays
2026-08-03T00:48:49 < zyp> I got home a week ago
2026-08-03T01:01:14 < qyx> so you are full of fresh ideas to innovate
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2026-08-03T02:06:15 < catphish> well this is infuriating. my BQ25886 boost charger works on my laptop, works on my dumb USB wall socket, but refuses to charge from my desktop PC, i guess maybe it's too bursty
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2026-08-03T18:24:41 < karlp> I'm back to work tomorrow :(
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2026-08-03T18:31:16 < Steffanx> Will you be OK?
2026-08-03T18:37:06 < qyx> ohbo
2026-08-03T18:37:09 < qyx> ohno
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2026-08-03T21:24:30 < qyx> zyp: was that oyu using shapr's displays like https://www.digikey.sk/en/products/detail/sharp-microelectronics/LS044Q7DH01/5054070
2026-08-03T21:24:44 < qyx> do you have some real world photos of it?
2026-08-03T21:27:54 < zyp> I don't think so
2026-08-03T21:28:25 < zyp> as in, I don't think that was me
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2026-08-03T23:45:14 < karlp> catphish: how does that rest interface on the quantasylym work?  it's a usb device, but what runs the server on "localhost:9402" ?
2026-08-03T23:49:18 < catphish> karlp: i think the REST interface is something the windows software creates. i didn't look at it at all. my tests talk to it with libusb
2026-08-03T23:53:01 < catphish> karlp: i'm using https://github.com/QuantAsylum/PyQa40x
2026-08-03T23:53:30 < catphish> beyond that, i didn't even try to undertsand it, this test suits is pure AI slop and it works
2026-08-03T23:54:17 < catphish> at least, it appears to work, and the numbers it produces are plausible
--- Day changed ti elo 04 2026
2026-08-04T00:04:32 < zyp> isn't that what AI is all about? sounding plausible?
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2026-08-04T01:57:08 < catphish> zyp: perhaps
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2026-08-04T12:30:30 < karlp> catphish: fair.  it just would have been so nice ot have a usb net interface, and put the rest interface one the device :)  I was just curious about the localhost url in the label :)
2026-08-04T12:32:23 < catphish> karlp: that would indeed be neat, but no
2026-08-04T13:27:28 < mawk> my work laptop is kaput
2026-08-04T13:27:37 < mawk> the screen is half-dead
2026-08-04T13:27:49 < mawk> and the stupid Dell BIOS doesn't want to boot if any component is damaged
2026-08-04T13:27:56 < mawk> even though I could use it with an external screen
2026-08-04T13:30:33 < specing> coreboot it
2026-08-04T13:39:02 < fantanYl> vacation time
2026-08-04T13:45:16 < mawk> if I ask IT for a new laptop they will give me a locked down windows laptop without admin rights
2026-08-04T13:46:49 < mawk> I'd rather quit if they do that
2026-08-04T13:47:01 < mawk> so I'm waiting for my manager to come back from vacation so he can support me
2026-08-04T13:47:12 < mawk> I'm using a personal laptop in the meantime
2026-08-04T13:47:56 < mawk> so I drilled out the screws and remove the SSD and put it in a usb nvme reader to get the work files on my personal laptop
2026-08-04T13:48:03 < mawk> IT will not be happy about that
2026-08-04T13:48:21 < mawk> but Dell shouldn't have put the most fragile screws on earth that get stripped if you look at them
2026-08-04T13:49:41 < mawk> I bought a new personal laptop, with coreboot and 32GiB of RAM
2026-08-04T13:50:01 < specing> drilled?!
2026-08-04T13:50:10 < specing> oh
2026-08-04T13:50:27 < specing> nice mawk!
2026-08-04T13:52:29 < mawk> https://novacustom.com/product/v54-series/
2026-08-04T13:53:04 < mawk> with a discrete gpu for some reason
2026-08-04T13:54:29 < mawk> I didn't select intel boot guard, I'll set it up myself
2026-08-04T13:57:08 < DrZak> why not the framework thing?
2026-08-04T13:57:27 < DrZak> oh, just 40 eur for 16"
2026-08-04T13:57:28 < mawk> idk
2026-08-04T13:57:29 < DrZak> cool
2026-08-04T13:57:31 < mawk> I like this company
2026-08-04T13:57:38 < mawk> that's where I got my previous laptop from
2026-08-04T13:57:48 < mawk> it's a local dutch company
2026-08-04T13:58:07 < mawk> and it's more security/privacy focused than framework
2026-08-04T13:58:51 < DrZak> nucs look nice too
2026-08-04T13:59:26 < DrZak> cute, removing engraving or bios logo
2026-08-04T13:59:29 < DrZak> seweet
2026-08-04T13:59:43 < mawk> the laptop I had with them was before they pivoted to all its security stuff
2026-08-04T13:59:45 < mawk> it had a regular BIOS
2026-08-04T13:59:48 < mawk> but it was very hackable
2026-08-04T14:00:09 < mawk> I dumped the BIOS using a SOIC clip and a raspberry pi with flashrom, and I nuked intel ME from it, and enabled a bunch of hidden BIOS options
2026-08-04T14:00:31 < mawk> modern UEFI firmware is half standardized half not, so it's a bit heuristic; but with the right tools you can extract the offsets into the NVRAM for every variable
2026-08-04T14:00:43 < mawk> then you can change them directly from linux, no flashrom needed
2026-08-04T14:01:43 < mawk> the laptop I bought from them previously had 32 GiB of RAM; but the stick was bad, two bits were stuck high
2026-08-04T14:01:49 < mawk> that crashed my filesystem like 3 times before I figured it out
2026-08-04T14:02:22 < mawk> then I did a warranty request and they sent me a new 32GiB stick for free and told me to keep the old one; then using the info from the memtest I added the bad pages to the list of reserved memory ranges in the linux kernel memory map
2026-08-04T14:02:30 < mawk> and now I have 63.9999999 GiB of RAM on it
2026-08-04T14:03:28 < fantanYl> badmem is not in kernel anymore?
2026-08-04T14:03:50 < mawk> idk, it's not a kernel commandline option
2026-08-04T14:03:56 < mawk> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html
2026-08-04T14:04:14 < specing> mawk: great deal on the stick!
2026-08-04T14:04:19 < fantanYl> it was a module which could be configured to claim specific regions known to contain bad memory
2026-08-04T14:04:29 < specing> if you returned it, it would likely end up in e-waste anyways
2026-08-04T14:04:30 < Steffanx> Why did you set dutchland on fire mawk. First France now dutchland 
2026-08-04T14:05:45 < mawk> the memory map does just that too fantanYl 
2026-08-04T14:05:57 < mawk> and you can do the same on windows https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/whea/how-to-manage-the-pfa-memory-list
2026-08-04T14:06:03 < mawk> just a little registry thing
2026-08-04T14:06:09 < mawk> HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\WHEA\BadPages
2026-08-04T14:06:20 < mawk> what did I do Steffanx 
2026-08-04T14:06:31 < specing> windows? In 2026?
2026-08-04T14:06:35 < Steffanx> Set dutchland on fire. I can smell it here
2026-08-04T14:06:42 < mawk> it smells fine here
2026-08-04T14:06:47 < Steffanx> Dont you read nos
2026-08-04T14:06:50 < fantanYl> fuck windows
2026-08-04T14:06:53 < Steffanx> For your leftist news
2026-08-04T14:06:58 < fantanYl> i am dealing with it right now
2026-08-04T14:07:56 < mawk> do you prefer ad.nl?
2026-08-04T14:08:09 < mawk> or do you get all your news from dumpert
2026-08-04T14:08:16 < Steffanx> All good. It'll have the news
2026-08-04T14:08:42 < mawk> >Brand te ruiken tot in Friesland en Drenthe
2026-08-04T14:08:45 < Steffanx> I hardly visit dumpert anymore.
2026-08-04T14:08:47 < mawk> that's fine it's the countryside
2026-08-04T14:08:49 < mawk> middle of nowhere
2026-08-04T14:09:16 < Steffanx> But the fire is more on your side of the country 
2026-08-04T14:09:40 < mawk> in oostrum
2026-08-04T14:09:43 < mawk> that's like germany
2026-08-04T14:09:49 < mawk> it's barely netherlands
2026-08-04T14:15:38 < Steffanx> Youre still the main suspect though 
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2026-08-04T14:38:48 < mawk> ich spreche kein deutsch mein herr
2026-08-04T14:39:08 < mawk> two ladies from the city hall came to my apartment
2026-08-04T14:39:14 < mawk> apparently I didn't pay the water bill
2026-08-04T14:39:19 < mawk> and they're going to cut my water
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2026-08-04T14:59:08 < karlp> whee, novacustom offers icelandic keyboard layouts. cute.
2026-08-04T15:14:02 < mawk> you also have a µ on the icelandic keyboard
2026-08-04T15:14:05 < mawk> do you even use it?
2026-08-04T15:14:09 < mawk> it's also on the french keyboard
2026-08-04T15:14:16 < mawk> besides writing µm it's useless
2026-08-04T15:14:28 < mawk> I use the compose key or the greek keyboard if I want to write greek
2026-08-04T15:37:52 < karlp> I use it, it's nice having it, but we don't use it here for anything, it's jus thcance we got it in the layout "standard"
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2026-08-04T16:33:32 < jbo> mawk, don't forget about µGFX
2026-08-04T16:33:48 < mawk> of course
2026-08-04T16:33:49 < mawk> how could I
2026-08-04T16:33:57 < jbo> :D
2026-08-04T16:34:31 < jbo> mawk, seems like the frenchcore people just made remixes of all the songs that hardstyle already remixed :D
2026-08-04T16:35:09 < mawk> the hardstyle guys just stole them
2026-08-04T16:35:40 < jbo> I knew hardstyle long before frenchcore, therefore, hardstyle existed first, of course
2026-08-04T16:35:56 < mawk> :(
2026-08-04T17:36:40 < Steffanx> What he said
2026-08-04T17:39:44 < jbo> please don't assume my gender
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2026-08-04T18:00:15 < Steffanx> I'm sorry ma'am
2026-08-04T18:21:23 < tomeaton17> I'm a female police officer
2026-08-04T18:26:54 < karlp> w-what are you doing step ladder?
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--- Day changed ke elo 05 2026
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2026-08-05T11:23:34 < machinehum> Has anyone used the CertusPro-NX
2026-08-05T11:29:55 < zyp> yes, for some value of «used»
2026-08-05T11:30:34 < zyp> I have the evalboard, I've done some stuff with it
2026-08-05T11:36:20 < zyp> it's not supported by the free radiant license, so unless you pay for a license, you can only build evaluation bitstreams that are time limited
2026-08-05T11:37:35 < zyp> and before considering that route, I would look at other vendors; you can probably get more capable parts elsewhere that doesn't require a paid software license to use
2026-08-05T11:40:57 < zyp> it'd be fairly interesting if it got supported by the open tools, but there doesn't seem to be any progress on that
2026-08-05T11:43:32 < zyp> (AIUI the evaluation shit also implies bitstream encryption, which is an issue for reverse engineering)
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2026-08-05T12:05:59 < machinehum> I'm looking to convert SLVS-EC to CSI-2
2026-08-05T12:06:35 < machinehum> I'm also looking at GW5AT-LV15MG132C1
2026-08-05T12:16:43 < zyp> sounds like a certuspro-nx would be pretty overkill in any case
2026-08-05T12:17:17 < zyp> did you look at the lower end nx parts? AIUI crosslink-nx is pretty much made for stuff like that
2026-08-05T12:19:14 < zyp> that said, GW5A looks interesting too, open source support was actively progressing last I checked
2026-08-05T12:20:11 < zyp> I picked up the sipeed board with the GW5A-LV25 a few weeks ago, but I haven't had time to play with it yet
2026-08-05T12:39:06 < machinehum> Open source hardware support seems to move faster on parts that cost like 12$ vs. 120$
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2026-08-05T13:11:49 < catphish> machinehum: yep!
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2026-08-05T15:28:43 < Steffanx> What is latest innovation or is it still amaranth
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2026-08-06T12:02:05 < machinehum> O_o
2026-08-06T12:02:10 < machinehum> Camera boards ordered
2026-08-06T12:14:48 < DrZak> lords of the camera boards
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2026-08-06T21:52:21 < nohit> was someone here responsible for CMRX rtos ?
2026-08-06T21:53:10 < fantanYl> still is
2026-08-06T21:54:02 < nohit> i just got this on my email https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/building-memory-protected-embedded-firmware-tickets-1994289450431?
2026-08-06T21:56:45 < fantanYl> yeah
2026-08-06T21:57:06 < Steffanx> Whoa, is that your twin brother fantanYl ?!
2026-08-06T21:57:44 < fantanYl> evil twin brother
2026-08-06T22:11:05 < fantanYl> i don't expect 5 people going there
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2026-08-06T22:36:05 < nohit> It might be interesting
2026-08-06T22:36:36 < nohit> We are actually looking for a rtos
2026-08-06T22:37:22 < fantanYl> I plan to make it mostly generic, talking about how RCE actually looks like on embedded, how it is abused and how to defend. I'll use CMRX just because using memory protection in pretty much everything else sucks
2026-08-06T22:38:44 < nohit> I would take part but i have no time or energy in this month
2026-08-06T22:39:27 < fantanYl> it is being recorded and there is stuff about selling recordings, but I don't know actual plans, if it happens at all
2026-08-06T22:39:42 < fantanYl> yet I assume that precondition for obtaining recording is to buy the ticket
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2026-08-07T11:28:21 < qyx> ─────────
2026-08-07T11:28:22 < qyx> ❯ nope. Painter is an interface. FbPainter should be a FbPainter wrapper, exposing
2026-08-07T11:28:24 < qyx>   FbPainter.painter getter of the Painter interface
2026-08-07T11:28:27 < qyx> awww
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2026-08-07T12:52:36 < machinehum> fantanYl: I will certainly watch the recording
2026-08-07T12:53:02 < machinehum> Are there any high profile RCE on embedded stuff?
2026-08-07T13:00:13 < karlp> CRA doesn't force memory isolation though, that's fear mongering.
2026-08-07T13:01:39 < machinehum> karlp: Correct, Canada Revenue Agency does this force that
2026-08-07T13:01:46 < machinehum> does not*
2026-08-07T13:03:34 < Steffanx> machinehum corp.ch does not sell/ship to EU I assume.
2026-08-07T13:04:08 < Steffanx> Or is it .ca again?
2026-08-07T13:04:20 < machinehum> .su
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2026-08-07T13:04:47 < machinehum> machinehum corp certainly does ship to the EU
2026-08-07T13:09:21 < nohit> karlp: are you sure ?
2026-08-07T13:09:36 < karlp> yes.
2026-08-07T13:09:44 < karlp> go read the reg, it's not that big.
2026-08-07T13:11:15 < nohit> what does it force, the main points ?
2026-08-07T13:11:41 < karlp> no shared preconfigured passwords.
2026-08-07T13:11:48 < karlp> no shipping of known vulnerable software.
2026-08-07T13:12:11 < karlp> procedures in place for responding to security issues
2026-08-07T13:12:55 < nohit> how about the secure boot related things ? unsigned binaries cannot be executed ?
2026-08-07T13:13:07 < qyx> that's implementation detail
2026-08-07T13:13:09 < karlp> seriously, it's not a huge document. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2024/2847/oj/eng#anx_I
2026-08-07T13:13:19 < karlp> annex I is the main requirements.
2026-08-07T13:13:32 < qyx> like updates being implementation detail on how to handle vulnerabilities
2026-08-07T13:13:43 < karlp> everything else is implementation details and how you document that your risk assemements and mitigations are suitable
2026-08-07T13:15:06 < karlp> you may decided based on your risk assessments that yes, memory isolation is required, but that's because you decided that, as a way of meeting the requirements.
2026-08-07T13:16:04 < jpa-> it's also easy to fall into the trap thinking that one tool (such as memory isolation) would solve all problems
2026-08-07T13:16:22 < qyx> but the annex is all weirdly written
2026-08-07T13:16:37 < qyx> - protect the confidentiality of stored, transmitted or otherwise processed data, personal or other, such as by encrypting relevant data at rest or in transit by state of the art mechanisms, and by using other technical means;
2026-08-07T13:16:47 < qyx> what does this mean, encryption? for me, yes
2026-08-07T13:16:56 < qyx> for karl? a steel conduit? :P
2026-08-07T13:17:12 < karlp> correct, this is why you decide ityourself bsaed on risk assessments.
2026-08-07T13:17:30 < qyx> and that's wrong because it misses the point
2026-08-07T13:17:33 < karlp> all you need to have is the docs that said you thought about it, and have an answer.
2026-08-07T13:17:47 < karlp> if you can't defend your answer, you can get the fines.
2026-08-07T13:18:20 < karlp> the documentatio noverheards are significantly more cumbersome for most people
2026-08-07T13:18:30 < qyx> "we placed our cables in steel conduits because there is a security officier at the entry to the building and he doesn't allow anyone with a angle grinder"
2026-08-07T13:18:31 < karlp> also having the dedicated headcount for the response team :)
2026-08-07T13:18:50 < qyx> that's alibism
2026-08-07T13:18:59 < qyx> because the goal is to protect from the unforeseen
2026-08-07T13:19:22 < karlp> the goal is to stop some of the absolutely attrocious things that are done,
2026-08-07T13:19:23 < qyx> and not from an attacker in an ideal world
2026-08-07T13:19:39 < karlp> not instantly turn everything into safe from ~everything but nation state level overnight
2026-08-07T13:19:49 < karlp> the goal is for things like mirai to stop happening.
2026-08-07T13:21:01 < qyx> I hoped the goal would also include getting rid of chink shit or shit in general
2026-08-07T13:21:32 < qyx> but as the dates are slowly approaching, it looks like a very low level regulation in the end
2026-08-07T13:21:46 < qyx> erm, very soft regulation I mean
2026-08-07T13:22:55 < karlp> it will be a hamme ron people doing bad things, but not a hammer on people who hav emade an effort at not sucking.
2026-08-07T13:33:19 < zyp> yup, my takeaway is «we can mostly just keep doing what we're doing, we just have to document it»
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2026-08-07T13:51:49 < qyx> [] ERROR: applet-runner-wren: Hello Wren: main line 78: Error at 'blah': Variable is used but not defined.
2026-08-07T13:51:52 < qyx> lolworks
2026-08-07T14:03:42 < jpa-> heh, client stuff uses chroma-subsampled YCrCb in its digital oled interface.. no wonder there are some graphics artefacts
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2026-08-07T16:55:44 < Steffanx> So you ended up using wren? Is it truly qyx approved?
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2026-08-07T17:13:52 < qyx> looks good so far
2026-08-07T17:14:19 < qyx> adds 95 KB to the firmware but who cares
2026-08-07T17:50:26 < jbo> hello steffler
2026-08-07T17:59:30 < Steffanx> Gooday Mr jboer
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2026-08-07T23:39:54 < qyx> should i also make a small window telling user the script cannot be compiled?
2026-08-07T23:40:06 < qyx> or do users write bug free scripts?
2026-08-07T23:44:58 < Steffanx> Yes
--- Day changed la elo 08 2026
2026-08-08T00:26:21 < qyx> what ye
2026-08-08T00:43:04 < Steffanx> Why a user has to know it cannot be compiled? Why would they? Thats waht the vm does right?
2026-08-08T00:44:54 < qyx> yes but the user can upload custom scripts/applets so it is polite to tell them they fuk.. didn't do it right
2026-08-08T00:57:05 < Steffanx> oh, you meant when it fails to compile. I was confused. Yeah... good question. A debug window would be nice i guess. Log terminal, log file and what not.
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2026-08-08T09:11:27 < jpa-> qyx: just automatically send it to AI to fix it
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2026-08-08T12:46:21 < fantanYl> karlp: CRA itself doesn't. EN 304 626 - harmonized standard for operating systems if they have to follow self-assessment under Class I important product does for all practical purposes.
2026-08-08T12:47:24 < fantanYl> karlp: requirements are written in a way, that basically any connected workload, regardless of beinc MCU or SoC has to implement *some* memory isolation
2026-08-08T12:49:34 < fantanYl> the thing is you don't have to follow EN 304 626 to letter. If you don't your OS has to be externally certified.
2026-08-08T12:50:04 < fantanYl> *and* any used should do the due dilligence and either reject it, or push it through external certification themselves, otherwise such OS is unfit for given scenario
2026-08-08T12:50:10 < fantanYl> *user
2026-08-08T12:51:33 < fantanYl> the trick right now is that there are two very different drafts of EN 304 626 in existence. both are pretty badly formulated with rules that are technically impossible to fulfill. and the final draft wasn't published yet, despite the deadline was like mid last month.
2026-08-08T12:51:42 < fantanYl> so IDK what is the final form.
2026-08-08T12:54:06 < fantanYl> I submitted 15kB worth of comments for earlier draft
2026-08-08T12:55:36 < fantanYl> it was bad-bad as it contained requirement that any MMU-capable HW not equipped with MPU has to use MPU.
2026-08-08T12:56:03 < fantanYl> i'm an optimist and expect that final draft release was delayed because they read my comments and are fixing the shit
2026-08-08T13:14:04 < qyx> mmu? mpu?
2026-08-08T13:45:46 < mawk> muh mpu
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2026-08-09T13:30:02 < fantanYl> qyx: m *P* u
2026-08-09T13:31:16 < fantanYl> heh even old drafts were unpublished
2026-08-09T13:40:08 < DrZak> just pretend it has it
2026-08-09T14:12:40 < mrec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2S2ZVl84xg slowly getting ready to build an assembly line
2026-08-09T14:16:55 < mrec> I'm in particular happy about the Yamaha / I-Pulse it was cheap since it was defect
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2026-08-09T15:03:39 < Laurenceb_> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2086099309640978432/vid/avc1/720x1280/bHW3JgKMkLQYqc-v.mp4
2026-08-09T15:05:01 < DrZak> damn, that's some excellent garage
2026-08-09T15:05:07 < DrZak> hope it has got good locks though
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2026-08-09T16:58:42 < mawk> machinehum https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/qoaYwW34zP
2026-08-09T16:58:44 < mawk> you're famous
2026-08-09T17:00:36 < mawk> I see you added XTS but didn't remove CTR, is there a reason?
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2026-08-09T18:23:54 < Steffanx> Typical Reddit responses though 
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2026-08-09T18:53:54 < nohit> mrec: nice
2026-08-09T18:54:20 < nohit> more videos, please!
2026-08-09T19:51:36 < qyx> fantanYl: reread the whole sentence
2026-08-09T19:51:47 < qyx> I couldn't parse
2026-08-09T19:52:12 < mrec> it's quite interesting, the japanese machine uses mostly japanese parts (almost no chinese at all even SMD parts), the German machine uses like 99% German parts too
2026-08-09T19:53:09 < qyx> my .sk machines use no .sk parts because we are not making any anymore
2026-08-09T19:53:55 < mrec> our taiwan made CNC uses parts from Korea, Japan, Germany, France, Italy ... almost no chinese either (but that machine is like 26 years old)
2026-08-09T19:54:14 < mrec> totally different economics back then
2026-08-09T19:54:50 < mrec> the electronic controller is slowly dying (I reverse engineered the protocol and replaced it already so it can run another 20 years)
2026-08-09T20:24:15 < jpa-> don't worry, in 20 years the luxury cars that chinese drive will use parts made in EU sweatshops
2026-08-09T20:50:50 < mrec> the problem is that they have the supply chains that do not exist in Europe anymore I see that in Tainan vs now that I'm in Austria
2026-08-09T20:51:13 < mrec> all the spare parts I'm ordering for the PNP machinery is very expensive in Austria vs Taiwan
2026-08-09T20:52:22 < mrec> for pneumatic parts there's basically just one option in entire Austria
2026-08-09T20:52:58 < mrec> (I need them quick because I will leave on 23rd of August)
2026-08-09T20:54:56 < mrec> in Taiwan I can get all the pneumatic parts in a small shop 5 minutes away from our CNC machine.. it's so much more common there
2026-08-09T20:55:09 < mrec> local family owned shops have so many parts there
2026-08-09T20:56:12 < mrec> however my goal is to connect the Taiwan supply chain with Austria (and possibly get a few items from Austria to Taiwan)
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2026-08-10T10:15:22 < fantanYl> qyx: you parsed it correctly, it doesn't make sense
2026-08-10T10:15:58 < fantanYl> the draft effectively called for OS running on any hardware that already is equipped with MMU to use M*P*U explicitly
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2026-08-10T11:22:23 < machinehum> mawk: I am
2026-08-10T11:22:46 < mawk> famous? or removing CTR
2026-08-10T11:23:12 < machinehum> mawk: I didn't remove ctr because that chip has hardware to do CTR, so everything is faster. But it ships with XTS
2026-08-10T11:23:33 < mawk> well there are trade-offs in security of course 
2026-08-10T11:23:40 < machinehum> Yes of course
2026-08-10T11:23:42 < mawk> it's also faster to have no encryption at all
2026-08-10T11:23:55 < machinehum> And for me personally CTR is good enough
2026-08-10T11:24:07 < machinehum> I'll actually be adding a no encryption version as well
2026-08-10T11:24:20 < mawk> I hope XTS is the default 
2026-08-10T11:24:42 < machinehum> Yes I said above it ships with XTS
2026-08-10T11:25:19 < mawk> CTR is also malleable, if you know the plaintext at some point you can turn it into anything else, without knowing the key
2026-08-10T11:25:36 < mawk> for instance the partition table and such 
2026-08-10T11:33:27 < mawk> if there was hardware accelerated DES or RC4 that wouldn't be a reason to use them, the tradeoff shouldn't be in the detriment of security 
2026-08-10T11:33:49 < machinehum> I mean those are old insecure cyphers
2026-08-10T11:34:12 < machinehum> There are security risks with CTR that I don't find to be a dealbreaker for me
2026-08-10T11:34:53 < jpa-> it's mostly security by obscurity anyway
2026-08-10T11:34:53 < mawk> 3DES is still unbroken
2026-08-10T11:35:08 < jpa-> at least the "hidden" part
2026-08-10T11:37:32 < machinehum> Yeah the idea is someone picks it up, maybe plugs it in and then moves on with their day.
2026-08-10T11:38:09 < machinehum> This isn't a device for protecting again "nation state" actors
2026-08-10T11:38:11 < machinehum> Whatever that means
2026-08-10T11:38:23 < machinehum> And I've been honest about that from the start
2026-08-10T11:39:14 < machinehum> It's an open source thing, people can use it as they wish, throughout my release I've done my best to balance security and usability
2026-08-10T11:42:24 < mawk> XEX or XTS are that much slower?
2026-08-10T11:44:39 < mawk> I see the hardware has ECB acceleration, obviously since it also does CTR
2026-08-10T11:44:52 < mawk> then it's a bunch of xors to get the other modes
2026-08-10T11:58:02 < machinehum> XTS is slower
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2026-08-10T12:04:49 < machinehum> Anyone watching darpa heavy lift freedom fest?
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2026-08-10T12:14:21 < mawk> well sure but if it's slower by 5% it's not the same as twice as slow
2026-08-10T12:14:57 < machinehum> It's around twice as slow as ctr
2026-08-10T12:15:08 < machinehum> 5% I wouldn't bother with ctr
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2026-08-10T12:40:43 < mawk> I see
2026-08-10T13:26:21 < jbo> machinehum
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2026-08-10T13:40:54 < Steffanx> Is it bad?
2026-08-10T13:50:27 < machinehum> jbo: hello
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2026-08-10T13:50:38 < machinehum> Steffanx: hello
2026-08-10T13:50:53 < machinehum> Is what bad? Freedomfest drone edition?
2026-08-10T13:52:20 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXRpFM55eQg
2026-08-10T13:52:51 < machinehum> They got away with that being a VTOL because the "entire aircraft" takes off vertically
2026-08-10T13:53:19 < DrZak> rofl
2026-08-10T13:54:00 < DrZak> that is so stupid
2026-08-10T13:54:36 < DrZak> i like the thing built with 3 L tubes with propelers inside
2026-08-10T13:55:31 < machinehum> Which one?
2026-08-10T13:55:51 < DrZak> avero drone
2026-08-10T13:56:22 < DrZak> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHvHn8p9xI
2026-08-10T13:57:53 < machinehum> Being sponsored by el tony is the most swiss ass thing
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2026-08-10T14:15:51 < Steffanx> Hello welcoooome machinehum 
2026-08-10T14:17:50 < machinehum> Steffanx: what are we working on this Monday?
2026-08-10T14:21:45 < Steffanx> I'm still recovering from holiday mode ;)
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2026-08-10T14:24:29 < Laurenceb_> supp
2026-08-10T14:25:16  * Laurenceb_ is failing at c++
2026-08-10T14:25:45 < Laurenceb_> PID_with_limits::PID_with_limits(initializer_list<float> min_limits, initializer_list<float> max_limits, initializer_list<float> P_) : PIDController(P_.begin()[0],P_.begin()[1]) {
2026-08-10T14:26:17 < Laurenceb_> I have this n00b code, and want to have the P_ list be passed to the base class initializer as a variable number of arguments
2026-08-10T14:26:26 < Laurenceb_> how do I do this?
2026-08-10T14:27:27 < jpa-> either you do it with templates, or you are smart and don't do it
2026-08-10T14:28:02 < jpa-> variable number of arguments to a non-varargs function always means some compile-time magic like templates or macros
2026-08-10T14:30:15 < Laurenceb_> ok, how do I use templates with a base class initializer?
2026-08-10T14:30:40 < Laurenceb_> epic fail > PID_with_limits::PID_with_limits(initializer_list<float> min_limits, initializer_list<float> max_limits, initializer_list<float> P_) : template <typename ... Ts> PIDController(Ts&&... P_)
2026-08-10T14:36:00 < jpa-> why not just add an overload to base class that takes lists?
2026-08-10T14:36:43 < Laurenceb_> ok
2026-08-10T14:37:34 < Laurenceb_> but I dont want to edit the base class, its part of a library
2026-08-10T14:38:16 < jpa-> so what does the base class take now?
2026-08-10T14:39:29 < Laurenceb_> https://docs.simplefoc.com/pid_implementation
2026-08-10T14:40:05 < jpa-> so uh, it always takes 6 arguments? just write them out?
2026-08-10T14:41:30 < jpa-> or better yet, put all your args into a struct instead of these initializer lists
2026-08-10T14:41:34 < Laurenceb_> it can be called with fewer
2026-08-10T14:58:14 < jbo> what's the overall goal here, Laurenceb_ ?
2026-08-10T14:58:32 < jbo> I want to help before somebody will make the obviously correct statement of just rewriting it in rust
2026-08-10T14:58:59 < jpa-> probably just to subclass a class that has a constructor with variable number of arguments
2026-08-10T15:01:20 < jpa-> you could just do "using PIDController::PIDController" to inherit the constructor as-is, and add a separate method for setting the limits
2026-08-10T15:02:31 < jbo> or a freestanding function which constructs and returns a PIDController
2026-08-10T15:03:29 < jpa-> i assume the subclass is needed anyway to implement the limits
2026-08-10T15:03:57 < jbo> how can there be more than one min and one max limit?
2026-08-10T15:04:58 < jpa-> maybe limits on derivatives and integrals?
2026-08-10T15:33:17 < Laurenceb_> I found a way
2026-08-10T15:33:19 < Laurenceb_> https://pastie.io/jjoxnz.cpp
2026-08-10T15:34:15 < jpa-> such obscure
2026-08-10T15:34:26 < Laurenceb_> at least it compiles
2026-08-10T15:35:03 < jpa-> but what's the benefit over just having separate  set_limits()  and using the existing constructor as-is?
2026-08-10T15:36:04 < Laurenceb_> I want to be able to pass initializer lists, which existing constructor does not support
2026-08-10T15:36:10 < jpa-> also.. why not  PID_min_max[m][0]=min_limits.begin()[m]   and same for max, instead of this crazy for-switch pattern?
2026-08-10T15:36:52 < jpa-> that ternary operator inside a for loop is basically equivalent to   https://thedailywtf.com/articles/switch-the-dropdown  
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2026-08-10T15:40:35 < Laurenceb_> lol
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2026-08-12T15:16:40 < jbo> machinehum, no, rivella
2026-08-12T15:17:26 < machinehum> jbo, no, feldschlösschen
2026-08-12T15:19:37 < machinehum> feldschlössli
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--- Day changed to elo 13 2026
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2026-08-13T00:12:41 < bitmask> hello good sirs
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2026-08-13T12:52:01 < Steffanx> Hm
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2026-08-13T15:17:28 < Laurenceb_> hol up
2026-08-13T15:17:31 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FHPmQWHNWUAATZsD.png%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2026-08-13T15:17:38 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FHPmRrR6WsAAwsOU.png%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
2026-08-13T15:17:57 < Laurenceb_> >teh crazy eyes
2026-08-13T15:19:49 < Steffanx> Thanks Laurenceb_ 
2026-08-13T15:20:11 < Laurenceb_> they are made for each other
2026-08-13T15:21:48 < Steffanx> The 2nd one looks familiar. The other one no clue. Not a clue about the people mentioned in the article. But I don't even want to know
2026-08-13T15:22:48 < Laurenceb_> fake professor and fake medical devices designer
2026-08-13T15:23:59 < Laurenceb_> inb4 the fake taxi
2026-08-13T15:26:20 < Laurenceb_> anyone here used opensource multiphysics? I've got Agros running but its 2d only
2026-08-13T15:28:47 < Laurenceb_> elmer seems very hard to learn
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2026-08-13T16:46:52 < fantanYl> https://docbox.etsi.org/CYBER/EUSR/Open/EN_304-626_V1.0.1_2026-08-12_Operating-Systems_Enquiry-draft.pdf
2026-08-13T16:50:01 < fantanYl> "The mitigations ADEF, ISO-1, ISO-2, and ISO-7 listed in the SP-GEN baseline are also
2026-08-13T16:50:04 < fantanYl> required for an SP-REST product when any high-exposure condition holds, namely any of C-NET,
2026-08-13T16:50:07 < fantanYl> C-LOSS, C-MULTI, C-UNTR, C-FUNC, or C-PHYS. Th
2026-08-13T16:50:34 < fantanYl> So, CRA will require OS running any connected use case to be memory protected
2026-08-13T16:51:10 < fantanYl> at least that explicit mention of MPU was removed
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2026-08-13T17:11:50 < mawk> does flash lock count 
2026-08-13T17:20:15 < fantanYl> .2.14.2
2026-08-13T17:20:20 < fantanYl> 5.2.14.2 -> NO
2026-08-13T17:20:47 < fantanYl> It explicitly calls for process level isolation at CPU level, thus runtime, not flash rewrite/readout
2026-08-13T17:35:17 < fantanYl> OK, also the greedy requirement was removed
2026-08-13T17:35:27 < fantanYl> that one basically made everything nuclear-reactor grade software
2026-08-13T17:36:22 < fantanYl> it stated that if OS vendor can't assess possibility of individual risk factors and there is theoretical possibility of use or abuse of OS leading to certain risk factor to be active, OS vendor has to assume it is active
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2026-08-13T18:20:36 < mercenary> that still looks very much 'draft' quality. unless there is something like an Internet Re-engineering Task Force, it shouldn't refer to 'IRTF RFC 7748 (January 2016): "Elliptic Curves for Security".
2026-08-13T18:22:41 < fantanYl> well, E and R are close to each other, so I'd see this one as of low-severity
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2026-08-13T18:23:21 < fantanYl> there were much more sever problems in earlier versions, some would make impossible to adhere to this standard
2026-08-13T18:36:03 < qyx> process level isolation I am meeting with multiple Wren VMs \o/
2026-08-13T18:43:17 < fantanYl> yes, people of embedded. they'd do whatever they can to avoid using MPU
2026-08-13T18:46:23 < qyx> I have seen what is the state of support in freertos, what you had to do in cmrx and whst (mostly none) is elsewhere and yes, it looks like any simpler and working solution is, well simpler
2026-08-13T18:47:36 < qyx> and arm's mpu was clearly not meant for process level isolation with its alignment and region size limitations
2026-08-13T18:54:09 < fantanYl> v8M MPU has fixed granularity of 32 bytes, no need to deal with alignment anymore
2026-08-13T18:54:24 < fantanYl> v6/7M MPU was designed for simplicity of implementation
2026-08-13T18:56:30 < qyx> yeah, but there are people daring to release a f103 based product in 2026
2026-08-13T18:56:40 < qyx> it always reminds me the reality
2026-08-13T18:58:22 < fantanYl> that's still perfectly doable with memory protection active
2026-08-13T19:04:28 < mercenary> just be careful what you define as a 'process'. No officer, these are not processes, they are just multiple threads in a single process
2026-08-13T19:05:39 < qyx> hose are TASKS
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2026-08-13T19:08:16 < fantanYl> yes, that will be one way of evading this requirement
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2026-08-13T19:49:32 < Steffanx> Wonder how well that will hold up though 
2026-08-13T19:51:00 < mercenary> Until the next version of the standard, when they close the loophole
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2026-08-13T20:12:59 < jbo> if fantanYl now a lawmaker?
2026-08-13T20:13:18 < jbo> glad I got you to change the nick to reference fentanyl before that happened.
2026-08-13T20:13:36 < jbo> s/if/is
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2026-08-13T20:39:27 < Steffanx>  I'm not convinced just wording things differently makes it suddenly compliant. But then I'm no expert in the matter.
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2026-08-13T20:50:51 < mercenary> Practical experience says naming things differently is one way to get past security reviews. Name it something else, and suddenly it is 'out-of-scope' for PCI-DSS
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2026-08-13T20:55:18 < fantanYl> I'd say that even with TASKS or whatever, isolation of kernel itself will be a non-negotiable
2026-08-13T20:57:43 < mercenary> it should be, if there is a thing in the architecture that can be defined as 'the kernel'
2026-08-13T20:59:41 < fantanYl> well, you can still opt to ignore this harmonized standard and opt for external certification
2026-08-13T20:59:54 < fantanYl> it will work, it just will be many orders more expensive
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2026-08-13T22:48:42 < qyx> *money orders
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--- Day changed pe elo 14 2026
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2026-08-14T12:14:53 < Laurenceb_> this is how I ride
2026-08-14T12:14:55 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FHPnUgjYWMAAM4Dn.jpg
2026-08-14T12:31:26 < specing> fuck those tracks (c) heatwave
2026-08-14T12:31:54 < specing> trains here have reduced speeds from their usual sluggish pace
2026-08-14T12:32:08 < specing> trains here have reduced speeds *in addition to their usual sluggish pace
2026-08-14T12:47:01 < DrZak> skill issue, should've breaked
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2026-08-14T13:11:49 < fantanYl> pico-sdk went really fancy with linker scripts recently. they not only have includes, they also seem to have something like generators.
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2026-08-15T04:04:53 < qyx> bol som sa namocit v bazene (v tom zvysku, co z neho ostalo), pokukal perzeidy (0), prestala ma boliet hlava a hor sa na pracu!
2026-08-15T04:05:07 < qyx> fuk up arrow
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2026-08-15T08:20:22 < DrZak> ;)
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2026-08-15T08:34:24 < nohit> i have a led connected to PA15 of stm32f412, when the mcu is in reset, the led lights up dimly, but as soon as i init it as output, it works as expextec
2026-08-15T08:35:05 < nohit> also when i put the mcu in bootloader mode, it works as expected
2026-08-15T08:35:46 < nohit> arent all the pins suppose to be inputs on start-up, how is this possible ?
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2026-08-15T09:01:35 < nohit> ah its obvious
2026-08-15T09:18:01 < nohit> well its not
2026-08-15T09:18:15 < nohit> PA15 is JTDI
2026-08-15T09:18:26 < nohit> which is input
2026-08-15T09:19:20 < nohit> i was sure that its because it is shared with the JTAG interface but JTDI is input an it shouldnt drive anything
2026-08-15T09:38:18 < nohit> JTDI is an input, and it has a pull-up on it, and that dimly powers the LED on reset state
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2026-08-15T15:45:56 < DrZak> man, are residential garage opening setups black magic or is there a deeper reason why is that stuff fucked so often
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2026-08-15T16:29:15 < qyx> most probably they contain stm32f103
2026-08-15T16:35:58 < jbo> idk, sounds more like H7 to me
2026-08-15T17:00:55 < DrZak> whatever it is, its constantly busted
2026-08-15T17:00:56 < DrZak> :D
2026-08-15T17:01:50 < specing> you sure its not PIC12 in there?
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2026-08-16T14:52:38 < Laurenceb_> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2088066762679934976/vid/avc1/1080x1920/6xzauYc9PfcNTK8j.mp4
2026-08-16T14:52:40 < Laurenceb_> tfw
2026-08-16T14:55:58 < Laurenceb_> so who partied it up at Faragefest26?
2026-08-16T14:57:46 < Laurenceb_> kek the replies >10 old people struggling to stay upright. what a night. all raving about defeating a bin.
2026-08-16T14:58:13 < DrZak> oh, was that lord trashbinface or something?
2026-08-16T14:58:16 < Laurenceb_> yeah
2026-08-16T14:59:12 < DrZak> well, lets wish the stupid rednecks eating generous portion of shit the next 4 years when the twat fucks everything up
2026-08-16T15:16:40 < Laurenceb_> wait wtf
2026-08-16T15:16:42 < Laurenceb_> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2088231165182287872/vid/avc1/1272x718/y9cu192xIXXKsRGq.mp4
2026-08-16T15:16:54 < Laurenceb_> I dont know who is trolling who any more
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--- Day changed ma elo 17 2026
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2026-08-17T00:43:55 < Laurenceb_> tfw  https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/2088667776592302080/vid/avc1/1280x718/WzlpYhh_TtEFhv51.mp4
2026-08-17T00:48:21 < Laurenceb_> https://nitter.poast.org/pic/media%2FHPs4Uo4WsAA1-WN.jpg%3Fname%3Dsmall%26format%3Dwebp
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2026-08-17T08:51:35 < jpa-> bluetooth logs seem so french.. "le connection established" "le data len updated"
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2026-08-17T10:29:36 < Steffanx> le lol
2026-08-17T10:30:35 < Steffanx> Did you give the kid access to IRC jpa- ? Who else can jpka be?
2026-08-17T10:33:53  * jpka Hello. Me is just me =)
2026-08-17T10:47:39 < jpa-> Steffanx: i would never do that to my own child
2026-08-17T10:47:57 < jpa-> jpka is jbo's baby he named after me
2026-08-17T10:48:42 < jpa-> 2021-08-13T11:07:38 < tct> attn ##stm32 (that also means Steffanx): tct has some baby incoming.       <-- plenty old for IRC now
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2026-08-17T14:28:21 < Steffanx> Lol
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2026-08-17T14:44:39 < machinehum> What are we vibecoding today?
2026-08-17T14:45:01 < machinehum> Hopefully important security components
2026-08-17T15:11:32 < specing> Today I'm looking at the best way to charge ebike batts using USB-C PD GaN wallwarts instead of 500g dedicated brick.
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2026-08-17T15:11:58 < specing> As it turns out, there USB 3.1 Adjustable Voltage Supply that can do 15 - 48V in steps of 0.1V
2026-08-17T15:12:14 < DrZak> ah, a smoke enthusiast
2026-08-17T15:12:18 < specing> has anyone done this yet? I've got 10S batt
2026-08-17T15:12:20 < specing> :P
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2026-08-17T15:15:34 < specing> unfortunately, seems the 48V capable supplies seem to also be quarter of kilowatt.. that can't be lightweight
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2026-08-17T15:16:27 < DrZak> why would you care about the brick?
2026-08-17T15:16:34 < DrZak> its at home in a drawer or something
2026-08-17T15:17:36 < specing> DrZak: e-bikepacking ig
2026-08-17T15:17:52 < specing> but, also, same brick for laptop & ebike batts would be nice
2026-08-17T15:18:21 < specing> still have to convert my thonkpad to USB-C
2026-08-17T15:18:25 < DrZak> hmm
2026-08-17T15:18:43 < specing> but that should be comparably much easier, as 20V PD trigger boards are readily available.
2026-08-17T15:19:07 < specing> and, unlike charging 10S batt, requires no adjustments
2026-08-17T15:19:20 < DrZak> if you do bikepacking for a longer distance, its a good 30-35kg load, 100kg human .. gotta have some good tyres for that, or its adios
2026-08-17T15:19:26 < DrZak> 35 kg ebike
2026-08-17T15:19:46 < specing> weeks ago I traveled to my other apartment with laptop and kick scooter charging bricks in backpack
2026-08-17T15:19:54 < specing> that was 800g extra I shouldn't need to carry.
2026-08-17T15:20:07 < DrZak> an 170kg worth of ebike & rider & luggage would probably not do much of a distance
2026-08-17T15:20:32 < specing> DrZak: I don't see why we have to discuss e-bike weight, though
2026-08-17T15:21:01 < specing> and the kick scooter is also 10S (xiaomi m365)
2026-08-17T15:21:11 < DrZak> oh, you wrote e-bikepacking
2026-08-17T15:21:15 < DrZak> i assume an ebike
2026-08-17T15:21:15 < DrZak> :)
2026-08-17T15:21:18 < specing> but incompatible plugs with ebike batts (okay, this is much more easily solvable)
2026-08-17T15:21:19 < DrZak> erm, assumed
2026-08-17T15:21:33 < specing> DrZak: yes, but in this case it was kick scooter + train
2026-08-17T15:21:42 < jpa-> i repurposed some husqvarna charger as a travel charger for our bikes.. it's surprisingly lightweight for being 100W
2026-08-17T15:21:42 < specing> I'd like to do the whole trip by ebike though
2026-08-17T15:21:54 < jpa-> but usb-c would be very nice
2026-08-17T15:22:09 < specing> or normal bike, but still would e nice to replace heavy bricks with GaN usb-c wallwarts
2026-08-17T15:22:24 < specing> I weighted my lenovo 90W supply at 550g
2026-08-17T15:22:43 < specing> the GaN usb-c 65W wallwart I have is 120 or 180g, dont remember which
2026-08-17T15:22:46 < specing> a huge improvement
2026-08-17T15:24:25 < DrZak> it would take a while longer to charge the battery but yea, if that extra weight is important to you and charging time isnt, obviously a great idea
2026-08-17T15:24:45 < DrZak> isnt the charging plug kinda standardized these days
2026-08-17T15:28:35 < jpa-> yeah, looks like 500g for the husqvarna charger i use
2026-08-17T15:29:02 < jpa-> 450g without the 1.5 meter IEC power lead :)
2026-08-17T15:30:04 < jpa-> usb-c charger would be nice in that you probably need one anyway for phone & laptop
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2026-08-17T15:30:54 < DrZak> well first you charge the phone, then the laptop, then the bike the whole night
2026-08-17T15:32:27 < specing> DrZak: I can use pliers to change the plug on ebike batts.. and on one I already did - the existing plug burned up
2026-08-17T15:32:58 < jpa-> maybe it would make most sense to build an usb-c port into the battery pack, with some fancy tiny converter than can do PD in & out.. but that sounds like some BQ chip, and that's just too gross
2026-08-17T15:33:03 < DrZak> not the batteries, make a cable
2026-08-17T15:33:03 < specing> jpa-: the 1m 3wire AC lead is alread 1/3 of weight
2026-08-17T15:33:06 < specing> iirc 180g
2026-08-17T15:33:14 < specing> weights as much as the wallwart usb-c lol
2026-08-17T15:33:20 < specing> useless weight
2026-08-17T15:33:50 < DrZak> removing battery is a hassle, cable is far more convenient
2026-08-17T15:34:05 < jpa-> specing: heh, this one has the two-wire C7 cable, probably thinner gauge too
2026-08-17T15:34:09 < specing> jpa-: yeah perhaps, if I get wallwarts capable of charging directly, without boost from 20V
2026-08-17T15:38:50 < specing> which seems to be tricky, might have to go boost route from 20V after all :X
2026-08-17T15:38:55 < specing> to find*
2026-08-17T15:46:06 < jpa-> there is this neat chip BQ25756 that can charge up to 70V battery from buck-boost input; officially it's for mosfets, but i bet you could use it with ganfets! ;)
2026-08-17T15:47:38 < Steffanx> Tell us more jpa- 
2026-08-17T15:50:42 < qyx> anyone mentioned bq25756
2026-08-17T15:51:15 < specing> "from buck-boost input"?
2026-08-17T15:51:32 < specing> If I have buck-boost input then I don't need any stupid bq chip :P
2026-08-17T15:51:43 < qyx> it is a 4Q one, so anything in, anything out, and in reverse too
2026-08-17T15:52:58 < specing> 4Q is what
2026-08-17T15:53:07 < specing> 4 quarters of something?
2026-08-17T15:53:23 < qyx> four quadrant
2026-08-17T15:58:11 < jpa-> specing: i mean, "it has a buck boost input"
2026-08-17T15:58:17 < jpa-> .. when you add the transistors ;)
2026-08-17T16:01:46 < jpa-> it feels like a magic chip, perfect for ebike charging
2026-08-17T16:02:10 < jpa-> but after testing i have determined that it only has a tiny amount of magic smoke and it is not contained well enough   https://jpa.kapsi.fi/stuff/other/bq25756_giving_up_the_ghost.mp4
2026-08-17T16:10:12 < specing> yikes
2026-08-17T16:18:56 < DrZak> isn't there like a number that will say - this much - no smoke, that much - smoke?
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2026-08-17T16:23:14 < specing> probably "that much" was too close to normal operating situation
2026-08-17T16:25:09 < DrZak> :)
2026-08-17T16:30:10 < specing> looks like the big names of GaN wallwarts (anker,baseus,ugreen) don't know nuthin' of AVS
2026-08-17T16:30:11 < qyx> for ganfets, 4.5 V is usually too low and 5.5 V is usually too high
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2026-08-17T16:30:53 < qyx> and that's a very narrow range to work with, considering bq25756 is not made nor rated for GaNs
2026-08-17T16:31:43 < qyx> it just has a 5.2 V (or so, I don't remember exactly) drive voltage by accident so it *looked* usable for GaNs
2026-08-17T16:32:24 < jbo> are you guys talking about bq25756?
2026-08-17T16:37:30 < Steffanx> With GaN.
2026-08-17T16:41:59 < DrZak> use two! profit
2026-08-17T16:46:26 < karlp> what's AVS?
2026-08-17T16:48:00 < karlp> nvm, found it in the scrollback
2026-08-17T16:50:11 < karlp> yeha, slow(er) usb-c charging would be nice sure. the brick for my shimano batteris is chonker for sure.
2026-08-17T16:50:16 < karlp> also means I could hav emore than one, 
2026-08-17T16:50:25 < karlp> no way I'm buying multiple of these dedicated shimano shits.
2026-08-17T16:54:22 < specing> :D
2026-08-17T16:56:58 < qyx> last weekend I came around one of those green e-bike charging kiosks and I wondered who invented all those different kinds of steckers
2026-08-17T17:00:18 < jbo> the global stecker industrial complex ofc
2026-08-17T17:11:28 < karlp> stecker? connector?
2026-08-17T17:16:10 < specing> qyx: of course, every reputable ebike manufacturer has to have their own stecker
2026-08-17T17:16:30 < specing> and you have to buy strictly their own 100 eur chargers
2026-08-17T17:16:42 < specing> for their 900 eur batteries (that have 90 eur worth of cells inside)
2026-08-17T17:22:23 < qyx> the bad EU should come and force a single one when manufacturers can't decide
2026-08-17T17:23:14 < specing> maybe in 10 years they force usb-c for that, as wel
2026-08-17T17:23:16 < specing> well*
2026-08-17T17:23:38 < qyx> idk if usb-c is suitable for that
2026-08-17T17:23:45 < specing> but first thre has to be an industry standard to legislate to
2026-08-17T17:23:53 < qyx> protocol-wise, maybe
2026-08-17T17:24:02 < qyx> but usb-c meh for outdoor
2026-08-17T17:24:05 < specing> qyx: I did say above that USB-C 3.1 AVS can supply 42V at 240W 
2026-08-17T17:24:31 < specing> actually 5A max (210W), but still
2026-08-17T17:24:39 < specing> that's more than most ebike charging bricks output
2026-08-17T17:24:40 < jbo> connectors are not only about electrics tho
2026-08-17T17:25:10 < specing> pretty sure all ebike manufacturers tell you to charge indoors
2026-08-17T17:42:33 < specing> I'm having real trouble finding any AVS 48V capable wallwarts
2026-08-17T17:42:36 < specing> usb-c*
2026-08-17T17:51:17 < karlp> might hv ebetter luck looking for extended power support, rather than avs?
2026-08-17T17:51:57 < karlp> epr gives you 28/36/48, avs is fine tuning within that.
2026-08-17T17:52:34 < specing> mebbe, but I'd assume marketing dept would've plastered all keywords possible over their products
2026-08-17T17:52:59 < specing> anyways, this one seems to do it, but it's a traditional brick shape and overpowred for my purposes https://www.amazon.com/Detachabble-Repalcement-ADP-240KB-Framework-Computer/dp/B0FHGXV47T
2026-08-17T17:54:11 < specing> I think it's going to be hard to beat $15  65W ikea wallwarts even with a few $ extra for a boost, but having just a mcu speaking AVS to get batt charged directly would be easier than that + managing external boost
2026-08-17T17:54:44 < karlp> lots of AVS supporting devices won't do you 48V anyway
2026-08-17T17:55:00 < karlp> like this is only AVS to 21V... https://store.google.com/gb/product/google_usb_c_67w_charger?hl=en-GB&selections=eyJwcm9kdWN0RmFtaWx5IjoiWDNCcGVHVnNYMlIxWVd4ZmNHOXlkRjgyTjNkZlkyaGhjbWRsY2w5emJtOTMifQ%3D%3D
2026-08-17T17:56:09 < specing> strange, up to 20V was already handled by PPS
2026-08-17T17:56:16 < karlp> here you go: https://www.amazon.com/HKY-Detachable-Framework-Thunderbolt-High-Performance/dp/B0FR8R1851/
2026-08-17T17:56:30 < karlp> iec in, 48v usb-c out...
2026-08-17T17:59:20 < specing> karlp: I'm specifically looking for a wallwart or maybe 2 prong A/C input & short usb-c cable to keep total weight down
2026-08-17T18:04:23 < karlp> I think your biggest problem will be how you want to connect the usb-c to your battery pack...
2026-08-17T18:04:56 < specing> though probably wallwart is ideal, one fewer cable to trip upon / one fewer brick to occupy desk/floor-space
2026-08-17T18:05:30 < specing> karlp: I guess a stm32 to renegotiate AVS higher and higher to keep current / voltage within limit 
2026-08-17T18:06:04 < specing> didn't look into it much, but saw that the control channel, while not USB proto, is still tricky to talk to
2026-08-17T18:07:26 < specing> at least battery-side I can have whatever plug I want - it's simple 2 prong DC barrel jack in.
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2026-08-17T18:13:22 < karlp> hrm, my battery has 4 or 5 contacts, no idea what proto is there.
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2026-08-17T18:16:13 < karlp> meh, tried ref counting sessions to share sessions across sockets on esp-idf.
2026-08-17T18:16:28 < karlp> post to /auth closes the socket before the websocket opens
2026-08-17T18:16:31 < specing> probably 2 +  2 - and one wire post quantum crypto authentication, making sure you can only use their overpriced charger :P
2026-08-17T18:16:36 < karlp> so yeah, refcounted successfully to zero.
2026-08-17T18:17:15 < karlp> I guess I should just timeout sessions instead then.  
2026-08-17T18:17:17 < karlp> gross
2026-08-17T18:24:29 < specing> lol
2026-08-17T18:24:50 < specing> isn't there a stm32 equiv to the esp?
2026-08-17T18:27:30 < specing> but probably same or more proprietary? Concept of first mover advantage was lost on STM execs?
2026-08-17T18:34:35 < karlp> not sure stm32 would make any difference here, it's just shitty doing webserver programming by hand in C.
2026-08-17T18:35:20 < specing> why don't you use C++?
2026-08-17T18:35:32 < specing> or Ada
2026-08-17T18:36:00  * specing wonders if AdaWebServer could be compiled down to stm32..
2026-08-17T18:38:01 < specing> Amazon is full of no-name wallwarts.. :/
2026-08-17T18:38:07 < karlp> does it have websockets and cookies support already?
2026-08-17T18:38:45 < karlp> I just don't really know the best way of framing "session" lifetime when you have multiple sockets from a SPWA for both plain http and also ws endpoints.
2026-08-17T18:39:33 < karlp> explicit logout is fine, ish, but if people don't logout, then there's only like 8 sockets on esp, then it's just "no more clients sorry! hope you can find the right browser to logout of!")
2026-08-17T18:40:24 < specing> dunno
2026-08-17T18:40:27 < specing> you could LRU kick the oldest session out
2026-08-17T18:40:42 < karlp> yeah, just have to track that well then,
2026-08-17T18:40:48 < karlp> and... "oldest.... still in use?"
2026-08-17T18:40:56 < karlp> anyway., I think that will have to be the path.
2026-08-17T18:40:59 < specing> oldest whether its in use or not
2026-08-17T18:41:15 < specing> 8 clients sounds like a lot for an embedded app (webui?), anyways
2026-08-17T18:41:24 < specing> control webui*
2026-08-17T18:43:07 < specing> Anyways I'm tired of chargr research, laters
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2026-08-17T20:18:56 < qyx> in the future, we can found a ##proper32 initiative to make innovative, stm32 based, proper gadgets, like chargers with bg25756 or so
2026-08-17T21:20:20 < specing> bq25756 but implemented with stm32?
2026-08-17T21:40:57 < fantanYl> Renode probably won't be my favorite piece of software
2026-08-17T21:45:36 < Steffanx> I only tried renode once since my target was supposed to be supported. But the RCC was implemented weirdly so the proper bits would never get set. 
2026-08-17T21:47:45 < fantanYl> I can't even boot it because it won't reset PC on loading ELF file
2026-08-17T21:48:01 < Steffanx> That must be easy to fix right? :P
2026-08-17T21:48:24 < fantanYl> it would be if the thing had something remotely resembling proper documentation
2026-08-17T21:48:50 < Steffanx> Just complain on the hub and have them fix it.
2026-08-17T21:48:59 < Steffanx> or is the hub still down?
2026-08-17T21:49:02 < fantanYl> that's the 2026 way?
2026-08-17T21:49:11 < Steffanx> I mean its the open sores spirit right? 
2026-08-17T21:49:24 < Steffanx> It has been the way for many more years
2026-08-17T21:51:21 < fantanYl> ah, windows-fu helped: exit and then re-enter
2026-08-17T21:59:46 < fantanYl> nah
2026-08-17T21:59:49 < fantanYl> nevermind
2026-08-17T22:00:05 < Steffanx> ok what did you say again?
2026-08-17T22:01:46 < fantanYl> it doesn't seem to reset CPU properly on anything else than clear simulation start
2026-08-17T22:11:53 < specing> https://hackaday.io/project/205084-pd240w/details
2026-08-17T22:12:01 < specing> >  Auto PPS Tuning: A closed-loop control system that actively measures the output voltage and adjusts the PPS request to compensate for cable drop and charger inaccuracies.
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2026-08-18T12:18:07 < jpa-> heh, got some AI code review that was "generated by 5 parallel oracle analysis specialists".. i'm not fearing for my job yet
2026-08-18T12:20:00 < jpa-> it complains about magic numbers where the code actually has #defines.. maybe some automatic preprocessing during its analysis replaced the defines
2026-08-18T12:20:43 < jpa-> for every performance issue it just randomly says that it slows down throughput by 20-50%, even if the "issue" is only in initialization code that is run once on reset
2026-08-18T12:21:25 < jpa-> and finally it identifies a bunch of "it's what it is" issues like "data corruption may occur if SD card is removed during writing"
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2026-08-18T13:10:25 < karlp> whee, vscode updates itself all the time, latest update runs out of ram and dies after about 8-10 minutes.
2026-08-18T13:49:36 < zyp> maybe that's the real reason behind the ram shortage
2026-08-18T13:52:41 < jpa-> maybe that's the solution
2026-08-18T13:52:59 < jpa-> if the software will exhaust all ram anyway, it doesn't matter if you have 4 GB or 64 GB
2026-08-18T13:55:11 < qyx> better solve RAM shortage by writing normal software again
2026-08-18T13:55:24 < qyx> *sane
2026-08-18T13:58:39 < jpa-> "again"
2026-08-18T13:58:51 < jpa-> maybe you come from a different timeline than i
2026-08-18T14:05:14 < mercenary> 'writing software' instead of 'gluing lots of existing software together' would be a start
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2026-08-18T15:04:22 < jpa-> yeah, every application should be built from ground up
2026-08-18T15:04:56 < jpa-> gtk was good when it was gimp toolkit and not some general gui toolkit!
2026-08-18T15:07:14 < fantanYl> i don't want import other's bugs. i want to write my own!
2026-08-18T15:07:50 < fantanYl> when I write it, its not even funny
2026-08-18T15:08:45 < mawk> I love KDE
2026-08-18T15:09:18 < fantanYl> actually, my bachelor thesis was about GUIs on embedded devices
2026-08-18T15:09:42 < fantanYl> then few months later iPhone was revealed and whole theory on creating touch interfaces was obsolete overnight
2026-08-18T15:13:11 < specing> fantanYl: but, luckily, you graduated before that happened? 
2026-08-18T15:13:35 < fantanYl> I don't think this would have any effect on my thesis even if it happened before my graduation
2026-08-18T15:13:41 < fantanYl> the realization wasn't immediate
2026-08-18T15:14:01 < fantanYl> dancemonkeyboy was even mocking Apple for not having keyboard or stylus
2026-08-18T15:15:50 < jbo> wtf is dancemonkeyboy
2026-08-18T15:16:03 < jpa-> balmer
2026-08-18T15:16:16 < fantanYl> jbo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tX4N2oUa2Q
2026-08-18T15:18:37 < jbo> well that's gonna be difficult to erase from memory
2026-08-18T15:19:45 < fantanYl> raw footage isn't much less ridiculous
2026-08-18T15:30:27 < jpa-> jbo: how can you not have seen this?
2026-08-18T15:30:59 < jbo> jpa-, presumably I haven't seen most things
2026-08-18T15:37:48 < jpa-> you should fix that
2026-08-18T15:38:21 < machinehum> Balmer is such a weird guy
2026-08-18T15:38:41  * jbo shrugs
2026-08-18T15:38:49 < jpa-> set up 30 000 displays running youtube non-stop and you can at least keep up, while you figure out how to catch up
2026-08-18T15:48:30 < fantanYl> the main advantage of Balmer was that it was immediately clear he's an asshole managing evil company
2026-08-18T15:48:48 < fantanYl> Sloppya is such a nice smiling guy, you are supposed to love him and give him all your money
2026-08-18T15:49:22 < machinehum> Balmer reminds me of that bitconnect guy
2026-08-18T15:51:33 < fantanYl> he could probably start a career as televangelist in US
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2026-08-18T16:40:48 < mawk> what's an oracle analysis spécialiste jpa- 
2026-08-18T16:43:16 < jpa-> it's money in, garbage out program
2026-08-18T16:50:55 < mawk> lol
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2026-08-18T18:09:41 < karlp> https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-cpptools/issues/14689 wsa the problem, fortunatley a "install specific version..." drop down to fix it...
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2026-08-18T20:04:35 < fantanYl> there's exactly one extremely nasty feature of CMake - it is sometimes unclear if you have to pass variable by name, or as expansion
2026-08-18T20:07:48 < jbo> that's like saying that in C it's sometimes unclear if you have to pass a value or a pointer to the value
2026-08-18T20:08:27 < fantanYl> no, in C, argument is typed, you won't be able to pass pointer to value where value is expected and vice versa
2026-08-18T20:08:41 < fantanYl> now I found one place where it wasn't immediately clear if I have to pass by value or by reference
2026-08-18T20:08:55 < fantanYl> it turned out, passing by reference is correct
2026-08-18T20:09:05 < fantanYl> documentation isn't of much help either
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2026-08-18T20:43:19 < qyx> burn it, death to cmake
2026-08-18T20:54:24 < jpa-> fantanYl: just add  -w -fpermissive    and C will start behaving like K&R intented it to
2026-08-18T20:54:37 < jpa-> int*? int? void*? sure, you can assign it
2026-08-18T20:55:22 < jpa-> types are stupid, they don't go into the compiled program so why would you bother getting them correct
2026-08-18T20:56:32 < qyx> did you eat myrkkysieni?
2026-08-18T20:57:14 < jpa-> there are no poisonous mushrooms, just boring and not-so-boring mushrooms
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2026-08-18T20:58:20 < qyx> what are those finnish magic potions made of then
2026-08-18T20:58:36 < jbo> the tears of swedish people, presumably
2026-08-18T20:58:38 < jpa-> they are made of taikasieni of course
2026-08-18T20:59:24 < qyx> lol
2026-08-18T21:03:16 < jpa-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ai3LxZyT8E   mushroom education starts early in finland
2026-08-18T21:15:30 < fantanYl> nah, somehow I patched it. now CreepyOS integrates with CubeMX in just three lines
2026-08-18T21:20:22 < jbo> we should make a new standard thing to replace all current standard things
2026-08-18T21:22:02 < fantanYl> working on it, don't be impatient!
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2026-08-18T23:55:22 < karlp> wow, this "papers" "not evince" as the default is... teh suck.
2026-08-18T23:56:33 < karlp> 17:57 <jpa-> there are no poisonous mushrooms, just boring and not-so-boring mushrooms
2026-08-18T23:56:36 < karlp> that's fucking bold :)
2026-08-18T23:58:40 -!- Livio [~livio@user/livio] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2026-08-18T23:58:53 < karlp> like, woo, it has gtk4 support, but.... you can't resize the fucking contents bar?!
2026-08-18T23:58:58 < karlp> the fuck? this isn't ready?!
--- Day changed ke elo 19 2026
2026-08-19T00:01:49 < fantanYl> something similar happened when gnome switched from gtk2 to gtk3
2026-08-19T00:02:25 < fantanYl> they thrown out almost all features, because every shit was customized in gtk2-based code and then they had to rewrite it from scratch on top of gtk3
2026-08-19T00:12:10 < qyx> weehee my lifepo4 went to 3.9 V
2026-08-19T00:12:14 < qyx> hurry hurry discharge
2026-08-19T00:20:57 < jbo> :D
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2026-08-19T12:37:06 < DrZak> welding is the sort of work wer sudden cracks and flashes and smoke arent indication of something going terribly badly
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2026-08-19T13:12:49 < karlp> fucking current esp-idf install helper thing says that ccache is a hard requirement.
2026-08-19T13:12:52 < karlp> wtf for.
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2026-08-19T13:50:20 < zyp> hah
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2026-08-19T16:31:23 < jbo> what are we hating on today?
2026-08-19T16:34:31 < specing> the fact that the framework 240W usb-c supply is the only one that can do AVS to 48V :(
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2026-08-19T16:35:08 < specing> (plus that one copy of it/ unbranded version)
2026-08-19T17:30:57 < Steffanx> Everything jbo
2026-08-19T17:31:30 < jbo> Steffanx, wow, rude
2026-08-19T17:41:50 < Steffanx> Welcome 
2026-08-19T17:42:20 < jbo> wtf?
2026-08-19T17:49:39 < fantanYl> writing "exploits"
2026-08-19T17:49:44 < fantanYl> i am a hacker now
2026-08-19T18:37:08 < qyx> get "ethical hacker" to your LI bio, start doing events, become a youtuber, get a gov project, #profit
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2026-08-19T18:56:57 < fantanYl> i could probably scream "sovereignity" and get funding anyway
2026-08-19T18:57:04 < fantanYl> RedoxOS is doing that
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--- Day changed to elo 20 2026
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2026-08-20T13:18:29 < karlp> TIL about matrix transformers. neat.
2026-08-20T13:26:34 < karlp> andddd they're patenting it, bleh
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2026-08-20T14:14:19 < jpa-> how many bootloaders do you usually use per project? i have 5 now, should i add more?
2026-08-20T14:19:29 < mercenary> boo-boo-boo-boo-bootloader? at least make it an even number.
2026-08-20T14:27:01 < zyp> jpa-, how do you count bootloaders?
2026-08-20T14:28:06 < jpa-> up to 10 i can count with my fingers
2026-08-20T14:28:17 < zyp> not 1023? boo
2026-08-20T14:28:19 < machinehum> Currently working on updateing bootloaders in the field with a critical section of 10ms where the device would brick 
2026-08-20T14:28:19 < jpa-> beyond that i'm not sure, maybe there is some cmake macro that can do it
2026-08-20T14:28:42 < jpa-> find -name '*.elf' | wc -l is approximately correct too
2026-08-20T14:30:33 < zyp> jpa-, are you bootloading five different parts or do you have a bootchain of five loaders on the same part? maybe something in between? :p
2026-08-20T14:30:57 < jpa-> five loaders on the same part (which does have two cores though)
2026-08-20T14:31:10 < zyp> cortex-m?
2026-08-20T14:31:23 < jpa-> yeah, nrf53
2026-08-20T14:31:29 < zyp> ah, yeah
2026-08-20T14:32:32 < zyp> so, b0 and dual mcuboot for each core, or what?
2026-08-20T14:33:10 < zyp> (I haven't worked much with 53, just 52, 54 and 91)
2026-08-20T14:33:34 < zyp> does tf-m count as a bootloader?
2026-08-20T14:38:35 < jpa-> hmm.. b0, b0n, mcuboot, and i count tf-m too, and then i thought nrf53 had some rom bootloader but apparently it actually does not
2026-08-20T14:38:53 < jpa-> just single mcuboot though
2026-08-20T14:38:54 < zyp> no, no rom-bootloader in any of the nrfs
2026-08-20T14:39:11 < jpa-> ok, only 4.. this can't possibly be enough
2026-08-20T14:39:17 < zyp> :)
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2026-08-21T22:41:07 < aandrew> ff
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2026-08-21T23:05:07 < karlp> no, 255 is definitely too many
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2026-08-23T22:41:44 < fantanYl> So, I got my hands on one trustworthy RTOS benchmark
2026-08-23T22:44:18 < fantanYl> if my benchmark numbers are not completely wrong, CMRX is probably already faster than NuttX and quite possibly also uC/OS-III
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2026-08-24T01:46:39 < karlp> yes, btu that's like "hur hur my camera h as 12 Megggga pixelz and yours only has 10. 20 purrrcent moahhh"
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2026-08-24T08:26:12 < jpa-> fantanYl: i wouldn't be surprised if nuttx is the slowest RTOS out there :D
2026-08-24T08:27:01 < jpa-> at one point it basically reinvented everything cortex-m vector entry does automatically, just for the sake of being "portable".. but i think that at least has been fixed already
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2026-08-24T09:46:04 < fantanYl> jpa-: it basically is :D
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2026-08-24T09:46:22 < fantanYl> what surprises me, that uC/OS-III isn't much faster than NuttX
2026-08-24T10:03:01 < zyp> what are you measuring? latency? average overhead?
2026-08-24T10:12:39 < fantanYl> zyp: I am running relevant subset of `thread metric` benchmark: https://cmrxrtos.org/rtos-benchmarks/, plus doing some CMRX-specific benchmarks just to know how performance changes with modifications
2026-08-24T10:17:53 < zyp> so you're slower than freertos and zephyr?
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2026-08-24T10:30:34 < jpa-> it would be surprising if memory protection would make CMRX faster than freertos :)
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2026-08-24T11:16:58 < fantanYl> zyp: well, that's not surprising given that neither Zephyr nor FreeRTOS have memory partitioning active and certain parts of CMRX are really flaky
2026-08-24T11:17:17 < fantanYl> like the scheduler loop is something like 2 * O(n) where n is amount of configured tasks
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2026-08-25T15:16:45 < fantanYl> zyp: https://tinyurl.com/5ejv3ww7 RT-Threads is solid loser, NuttX being only slightly better and uC/OS-III being probably the third slowest
2026-08-25T15:18:21 < qyx> is PX5 Beningo's new invention?
2026-08-25T15:18:35 < fantanYl> no, that's someone else's RTOS
2026-08-25T15:18:47 < fantanYl> Bill Lamie is name of the guy
2026-08-25T15:19:37 < fantanYl> it is something heavily commercial
2026-08-25T15:19:46 < qyx> and he had removed its wiki article apparently
2026-08-25T15:19:54 < fantanYl> RTX5 is, if I understand it correctly, something like a fork of ThreadX
2026-08-25T15:19:55 < qyx> google knows about it and wiki doesn§t have it
2026-08-25T15:20:13 < fantanYl> or maybe PX5 is a fork of ThreadX
2026-08-25T15:20:52 < fantanYl> archive.org to the help
2026-08-25T15:20:53 < qyx> pretty bold statement "px5 is the best rtos"
2026-08-25T15:21:05 < fantanYl> well, it is the fastest
2026-08-25T15:21:11 < fantanYl> at least in this set of tests
2026-08-25T15:22:14 < fantanYl> and without MPU enabled
2026-08-25T15:22:27 < fantanYl> Zephyr will lose ~50% of benchmark score when MPU is enabled
2026-08-25T15:22:35 < qyx> The PX5 RTOS, created by William Lamie, is an embedded real-time operating system (RTOS) that was launched in January 2023. Lamie, who also developed other RTOSes such as Nucleus RTX, Nucleus PLUS, and ThreadX (acquired by Microsoft),[2][3] currently serves as the President and CEO of PX5, an embedded software company headquartered in San Diego, California, United States.[4][5] Among these RTOSes, 
2026-08-25T15:22:41 < qyx> approximately 10 billion devices are operated by the ThreadX RTOS,[6] while the Nucleus RTOS is used in around 3 billion devices.[
2026-08-25T15:22:59 < qyx> nucleus rtos? never heard of it and yet used in 3 billion of devices?
2026-08-25T15:23:19 < fantanYl> ah OK, so he is the original author of ThreadX
2026-08-25T15:25:38 < fantanYl> heh, my extremely dumb scheduler shuld be only ~20% slower than Zephyr's if MPU is enabled there
2026-08-25T15:36:37 < qyx> I wonder what does "interrupt processing" mean, because eg. freertos doesn't do any
2026-08-25T15:37:22 < qyx> and yes, message processing in freertos is slow
2026-08-25T15:37:47 < qyx> i was expecting a 0.5 score
2026-08-25T15:38:11 < fantanYl> task code triggers HW interrupt (e.g. pin change), interrupt handler (actively) dispatches back to (same) thread
2026-08-25T15:39:44 < fantanYl> thread blocks on semaphore (or equivalent), so basically it is the same test as synchronization, just signalling portion is ran from interrupt rather than userland
2026-08-25T15:51:41 < c10ud> where is the reference platform used for the benchmark
2026-08-25T15:52:22 < c10ud> also who on earth compiles with -Ofast
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2026-08-25T15:58:37 < fantanYl> c10ud: this is just an excerpt from full report where this is detailed. it is basically STM32F4 Discovery board
2026-08-25T15:58:57 < fantanYl> STM32L475 Discovery
2026-08-25T16:03:02 < fantanYl> also, another information visible in the full report: GCC is faster than IAR
2026-08-25T16:03:16 < fantanYl> on pretty much everything than pure computational load
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2026-08-25T18:09:06 < DrZak> now this is pro developer color theme - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HQkMU7eXEAA_U4p?format=jpg&name=large
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2026-08-25T19:18:11 < Steffanx> Ouch. What's it called "Sun burn"?
2026-08-25T19:20:26 < jbo> presumably "golden arch"
2026-08-25T19:22:34 < DrZak> :]
2026-08-25T19:25:01 < mercenary> ketchup & mayonnaise, supersized
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2026-08-25T19:32:36 < Steffanx> oh i only now noticed the famous M
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2026-08-25T20:01:12 < bitmask> hi hi
2026-08-25T20:02:11 < Steffanx> Lo lo
2026-08-25T20:02:17 < bitmask> hows it going?
2026-08-25T20:04:32 -!- bitmask_ [~bitmask@ool-43525d25.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2026-08-25T20:04:47 < bitmask_> oops
2026-08-25T20:06:34 < Steffanx> Wunderbar. Wie geht es dir?
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2026-08-25T20:07:16 < Steffanx> Not so well I see
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2026-08-25T20:20:38 < mawk> ich bin ein berliner
2026-08-25T20:27:02 < Steffanx> Ach so
2026-08-25T20:28:32 < Steffanx> I heard you jumped into the  catacombs of Paris and had to be rescued mawk? They even had you mistaken for a woman
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2026-08-25T21:11:33 < mawk> did I?
2026-08-25T21:11:35 < mawk> I would never get lost
2026-08-25T21:11:38 < mawk> I have the maps
2026-08-25T21:14:43 < DrZak> but no compas
2026-08-25T21:20:44 < Steffanx> Not lost. You fell down on your way in
2026-08-25T21:20:55 < Steffanx> Didn't you read about it mawk? 
2026-08-25T21:21:32 < mawk> no I missed it
2026-08-25T21:32:44 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
2026-08-25T21:42:20 < DrZak> hmm, hetzner cost-optimized servers are not available
2026-08-25T21:42:24 < DrZak> hmmmmmm
2026-08-25T22:28:37 -!- \dev\ice [~eabdb@user/device/x-9920846] has changed host
2026-08-25T22:37:11 < mawk> what do you need a server for
2026-08-25T22:38:06 < DrZak> small web and mail fwd
2026-08-25T22:38:39 < DrZak> ab well, they are gonna get it worky eventually, im in no hurry
2026-08-25T22:57:09 < mawk> doing your own mail in 2026 is torture
2026-08-25T22:57:18 < mawk> just pay protonmail to use your custom domain name
2026-08-25T22:57:21 < mawk> well worth it
2026-08-25T22:57:36 < jbo> give me maps
2026-08-25T22:57:44 < mawk> is that a STD?
2026-08-25T22:57:59 < mawk> r u a bugchaser
2026-08-25T23:12:05 < qyx> DrZak: nope, they have not enough resources, idk what the ETA is
2026-08-25T23:12:19 < qyx> they are available for existing accounts
2026-08-25T23:13:05 < qyx> log in and check in the webui
2026-08-25T23:13:50 < qyx> for new accounts/customers, only those expensive ones are available
2026-08-25T23:15:07 < mawk> I'm using online/scaleway
2026-08-25T23:15:19 < mawk> great guys, apart from the time they let the cops in the datacenter to dump my server hard drive
2026-08-25T23:17:06 < DrZak> ah
2026-08-25T23:18:29 < specing> mawk: what were they supposed to do if they get court ordr?
2026-08-25T23:18:36 < specing> or did they do it without ordr?
2026-08-25T23:18:39 < mawk> tell me in advance so I can wipe the server
2026-08-25T23:18:48 < mawk> idk if they got a court order
2026-08-25T23:18:53 < mawk> maybe they just wanted to play nice
2026-08-25T23:19:02 < specing> lmao pretty sure the order EXPLICITLY FORBIDS THAT
2026-08-25T23:19:10 < mawk> they ignored all my support requests or just told me they didn't know what was happening for 24h
2026-08-25T23:19:11 < specing> you didn't ask?
2026-08-25T23:19:14 < mawk> yeah I asked of course
2026-08-25T23:19:17 < mawk> they didn't want to tell me
2026-08-25T23:19:19 < specing> lawer?
2026-08-25T23:19:21 < specing> lawyer*
2026-08-25T23:19:30 < mawk> then 24h later the server comes back online, I look in the logs and I see the power button was pressed manually
2026-08-25T23:19:49 < mawk> what they were looking for was encrypted, so turning the server off was the worse thing they could do
2026-08-25T23:20:04 < DrZak> :)
2026-08-25T23:20:37 < mawk> the cops wanted the logs of my free image host
2026-08-25T23:20:46 < mawk> I repeatedly told them I didn't keep logs, I guess they wanted to check for themselves
2026-08-25T23:21:03 < mawk> you're supposed to keep 1 year of logs in france, but EU law says that you don't have to do that
2026-08-25T23:21:17 < mawk> so in theory with infinite money and time if they sued me I could appeal up to the european court of justice and potentially win
2026-08-25T23:21:22 < mawk> but they didn't sue in the end
2026-08-25T23:22:20 < DrZak> oh man, i didnt think about that stuff, if i run something publicly accessible, i would need to keep stuff
2026-08-25T23:22:23 < DrZak> hmmmmmmmmmm
2026-08-25T23:24:03 < mawk> if it's for non-commercial purposes it's usually fine
2026-08-25T23:24:16 < qyx> you just say you checked them and didn't find anything
2026-08-25T23:24:44 < mawk> under a threshold of users
2026-08-25T23:24:46 < mawk> just keep logs and comply with abuse requests
2026-08-25T23:24:48 < mawk> but you don't need the proactive moderation
2026-08-25T23:25:32 < DrZak> aha aha, i got to research this deeper, i have no reason to get in deeper shit unnecesarily, i am kinda a magnet for those
2026-08-25T23:25:43 < mawk> most of my users were on tor so if I could give them logs it would just say 127.0.0.1 as the IP
2026-08-25T23:26:13 < DrZak> does it say you have to keep logs, or, do the logs need to actually work? :D
2026-08-25T23:26:34 < mawk> if it's a web server I guess they want at least IP, date of access, page accessed
2026-08-25T23:26:43 < mawk> I don't think you have to go all in with fingerprinting and cookies and all that
2026-08-25T23:26:46 < DrZak> ah
2026-08-25T23:26:47 < DrZak> :)
2026-08-25T23:42:53 < qyx> mawk: maybe they were actually nice and turned it off
2026-08-25T23:43:40 < DrZak> let it have a break, a small staycation
2026-08-25T23:47:52 < mawk> lol
--- Day changed ke elo 26 2026
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2026-08-26T00:22:15 < qyx> https://github.com/AppliST67/Web_AT_Documentation_ST67/tree/main
2026-08-26T00:22:18 < qyx> are they serious
2026-08-26T00:22:28 < qyx> they are delivering sphinx BUILD?
2026-08-26T00:22:35 < qyx> where is the source .rst?
2026-08-26T00:23:06 < qyx> this is unbeliavable shit, I hope ST can do better
2026-08-26T00:23:59 < qyx> all the ST67 docs is spread over multiple sites, which are nearly unsearchable, cannot be sanely downloaded, cannot be accessed using AI agents and well, it is a mess
2026-08-26T00:24:17 < qyx> something is in the datasheet, something on the wiki (wut?), something on github using sphinx
2026-08-26T00:24:48 < mawk> beautiful
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2026-08-26T03:05:04 < qyx> hey BLE pros, when I want to transfer simple datagrams, should i do indicate server->client direction, and write client->server direction?
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2026-08-26T03:05:39 < qyx> looks like that would make the throughput low because of RTT
2026-08-26T03:10:18 -!- Phantom [~Phantom@user/phantom] has joined ##stm32
2026-08-26T03:10:48 < Phantom> question about DAC, do you need to regularly set back the output of the DAC or can you set it once and forget about it forever?
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2026-08-26T08:11:28 < qyx> Phantom: set and forget
2026-08-26T08:16:26 < Phantom> ok thanks
2026-08-26T08:17:31 < Phantom> I got a weird bug that made me question my sanity.... DAC3 ch2 to the analog comparator.... I set the DAC3 CH1 to 0.45V, and I get the proper signal out... for anywhere from 30 sec to 30 minutes...
2026-08-26T08:18:33 < Phantom> somehow setting ch1 did something to ch2...
2026-08-26T08:18:42 < Phantom> I'm guessing capacitive coupling or something
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2026-08-26T08:37:38 < qyx> what's that stm32? there are usually not that many DACs or channels
2026-08-26T08:39:45 < Phantom> STM32G431
2026-08-26T08:41:15 < Phantom> it have 2 DACs, DAC1 and DAC3, they skipped the 2
2026-08-26T08:41:54 < qyx> it definitely works on G491, I am using it that way for excitation voltage generation
2026-08-26T08:42:10 < qyx> maybe you are overwriting something something
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2026-08-26T08:44:30 < Phantom> I think it might be just that since I never set the DAC3 CH2 that it never got initialised, and just floated, and got set by capacitance...
2026-08-26T08:45:39 < Phantom> I use both channels of DAC1 and 1 of DAC3, so I assume that it might be enough to set the uninitialised channel via capacitance, but since the hardware is not set then it drift
2026-08-26T08:53:00 < qyx> if the pin is configured as analog, DAC is off and there is a high impedance input connected, then it could probably happen
2026-08-26T08:54:47 < Phantom> all there is to do is test it now. And hope it work. And fix the buck regulator...
2026-08-26T09:01:59 < Phantom> bed, nite
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2026-08-26T10:15:26 < fantanYl> Phantom: actual answer is: it depends
2026-08-26T10:15:54 < fantanYl> if you are working in at least somewhat safety-relevant context, you want to reconfigure your peripherals regularly
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2026-08-26T10:43:37 < qyx> no, thats not it depends
2026-08-26T10:43:52 < qyx> thats hardware and the answer is clear for the hardware
2026-08-26T10:48:08 < qyx> that's like saying you have to reclock your d flip-flop periodically in a safety-relevant context in order to hold the value
2026-08-26T10:48:46 < qyx> it holds, if operated within specification, as intended
2026-08-26T10:50:37 < jpa-> it's a quite common defence-in-depth strategy to just reconfig (or even reboot) regularly, to guard against glitches or software bugs
2026-08-26T10:51:00 < jpa-> "assume everything is within specs and does not have faults" just doesn't fly for safety
2026-08-26T10:51:19 < qyx> yes but fuck off strategy, the question was clear
2026-08-26T10:51:27 < qyx> does it hold if I config it once? YES
2026-08-26T10:51:47 < jpa-> yeah, i agree the comment is irrelevant to the actual question :)
2026-08-26T10:52:21 < qyx> does the light goes on if I toggle the switch or I have to toggle it every 2 minutes? yes toggle it and the light stays on
2026-08-26T10:52:34 < jpa-> but questions on ##stm32 are not "ask once and it remains in effect", instead it is more like dram where if you don't refresh the question it will start fading and transforming to something else ;)
2026-08-26T10:52:37 < qyx> who the fuck is dealing with a broken switch now
2026-08-26T10:53:25 < qyx> of course the switch can break
2026-08-26T11:17:32 < fantanYl> qyx: you are wrong. the correct answer is NO
2026-08-26T12:59:20 < Steffanx> Is it still NO?
2026-08-26T13:02:10 < fantanYl> yes, no
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2026-08-26T13:39:47 < Steffanx> It already went from NO to no. :)
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2026-08-26T13:47:32 < fantanYl> your filesy~1 is case-insensitive anyway
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2026-08-26T14:16:24 < jbo> Steffanx
2026-08-26T14:17:11 < Steffanx> Hello Mr sir jbo
2026-08-26T14:19:19 < jpa-> jbo: are you ready to rock?
2026-08-26T14:20:41 < jbo> maybe on friday, but no promises
2026-08-26T14:24:53 < Steffanx> Only jbo is invited to jpa- party?
2026-08-26T14:25:58 < jpa-> party on my boat
2026-08-26T14:26:06 < jpa-> up to 3 people will fit
2026-08-26T14:26:27 < jbo> Steffanx, I'm obviously more important to jpa- 
2026-08-26T14:29:16 < Steffanx> Will the boat be self driving and send telemetry data packed with nanopb to the clouds?
2026-08-26T14:29:42 < Steffanx> If yes. That deserves a bigger party
2026-08-26T14:30:29 < jbo> with ugfx HUD
2026-08-26T14:30:49 < Steffanx> V3.0?
2026-08-26T14:31:21 < jbo> yes
2026-08-26T14:32:23 < jpa-> Steffanx: no :/
2026-08-26T14:33:05 < jpa-> but hey, i may have nanopb-1.0 out this year!
2026-08-26T14:35:18 < jbo> just add another .number
2026-08-26T14:35:24 < jbo> 0.4.9.2.1 should be next
2026-08-26T14:35:56 < jpa-> people keep bitching about semvers
2026-08-26T14:36:36 < jbo> people keep bitching about everything
2026-08-26T14:37:40 < qyx> people keep bitching
2026-08-26T16:09:52 < Steffanx> You made it stop jbo <3
2026-08-26T16:10:03 < jbo> hello welcome
2026-08-26T16:10:18 < Steffanx> !!
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2026-08-26T18:05:40 < mawk> qyx write command and notifications
2026-08-26T18:05:43 < mawk> so no ack is needed
2026-08-26T18:05:48 < mawk> for maximum speeds
2026-08-26T18:14:00 < qyx> write on the client generates a URC on the server modem, right?
2026-08-26T18:14:14 < qyx> and notify accepts data to send from the server to the client
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2026-08-26T18:37:23 < jbo> jpa-, ping
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2026-08-26T20:37:26 < jpa-> jbo: request timed out
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2026-08-26T20:56:45 < jbo> jpa-, I am going to use nanopb so obviously I demand free, instant support at any time.
2026-08-26T20:57:24 < zyp> that sounds awful, better tell jbo to switch to micropb instead so you don't have to support him
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2026-08-26T20:58:49 < jpa-> yeah, definitely, anything but nanopb
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2026-08-26T21:01:23 < jbo> what did I do? :<
2026-08-26T21:02:08 < jpa-> it's just that nanopb is weird, hacky and i don't understand why anyone would use it
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2026-08-26T21:09:16 < jbo> which protobuf stuff does it support? examples are all 2, does it do 3 too?
2026-08-26T21:09:34 < jbo> or that new thing
2026-08-26T21:09:48 < zyp> ~everything does both 2/3, they're both old stuff
2026-08-26T21:10:10 < jpa-> proto2, proto3 and edition 2024
2026-08-26T21:10:35 < zyp> editions is the new hotness, which is pretty much exact same functionality as before but you get to pick piecewise whether you want proto2 or proto3 behavior
2026-08-26T21:12:56 < jbo> guess I'll be doing edition 2024 then
2026-08-26T21:13:40 < jpa-> personally i wouldn't bother with editions unless you really need that level of control
2026-08-26T21:13:48 < jpa-> proto3 is fine for most purposes
2026-08-26T21:14:10 < zyp> I'd also stick to proto3 unless editions support matured since last I checked
2026-08-26T21:14:37 < jbo> thanks for the advice, proto3 it is then
2026-08-26T21:14:38 < zyp> (you don't want to use features that ends up not being supported on the other end)
2026-08-26T21:18:56 < jpa-> google is also just google with the spec.. at some point they started pushing this weird "protoscope" syntax in the specs, then they archived (deprecated?) the whole protoscope tool; and some of the specs say "This language specification is known to be incomplete, particularly regarding whitespace handling and other lexical nuances. The C++ protoc compiler implementation serves as the definitive source of 
2026-08-26T21:18:56 < jpa-> truth."
2026-08-26T21:19:44 < jbo> I was also looking at cap'n'proto
2026-08-26T21:19:52 < jbo> but not sure how well that will work on a low-spec system
2026-08-26T21:20:06 < qyx> forget protobuf, use cbor
2026-08-26T21:20:56 < jpa-> cbor / json is ok if schemaless is ok
2026-08-26T21:21:20 < jpa-> if the project benefits from a schema, protobuf's schemas are nice and there are protobuf implementations for anything
2026-08-26T21:22:33 < zyp> I poked at some cbor stuff the other day, a python script I wrote some years ago to extract data from a cbor file didn't work anymore
2026-08-26T21:22:48 < zyp> turns out they made some API changes in the cbor library when they rewrote it in rust
2026-08-26T21:24:23 < zyp> https://github.com/agronholm/cbor2/blob/master/docs/versionhistory.rst?plain=1#L95-L135
2026-08-26T21:35:27 < jpa-> https://github.com/nanopb/nanopb/compare/dev_1.0_rebase   i'm quite unsure on whether i should work to squash some of the 177 commits or just let them be.. probably doesn't matter either way
2026-08-26T21:36:09 < jpa-> there are a bunch of commits that change things back and forth
2026-08-26T21:39:30 < jpa-> (i also hate how github only shows commit date for rebased commits)
2026-08-26T21:42:57 < jpa-> (fortunately --committer-date-is-author-date is easy when you remember to do it before merging)
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2026-08-26T21:59:03 < mawk> yeah qyx 
2026-08-26T21:59:10 < mawk> assuming you have some ESP32esque modem
2026-08-26T21:59:41 < mawk> I don't like squash or rebase
2026-08-26T21:59:53 < mawk> before making the merge request rebase -i is fine to merge or rename some commits
2026-08-26T21:59:56 < mawk> but I want to keep the history after the merge
2026-08-26T22:00:02 < mawk> nobody looks at the graph anyway
2026-08-26T22:06:59 < fantanYl> I prefer history that is bisect-friendly
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2026-08-26T22:14:17 < mawk> well more atomic commits is better for git bisect
2026-08-26T22:15:07 < fantanYl> yeah, unless some of them introduce random build breaks
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--- Day changed to elo 27 2026
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2026-08-27T00:54:00  * Phantom thinks that fantanYl is too dangerous and should switch to opium
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2026-08-27T04:16:35  * Phantom hates TI
2026-08-27T04:18:25 < Phantom> so I used webbench to give me the values, but the inductor values are obiviously wrong, way too high current...   and suspiciously low inductance...    Then the datasheet, the math and their example does not match at all, and don't even match their "use this value for this voltage" table...
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2026-08-27T07:34:25 < jpa-> Phantom: yeah, webench tends to give way over-rated, over-expensive designs
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2026-08-27T08:31:54 < jbo> gotta keep wuerth alive somehow
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2026-08-27T09:10:21 < jbo> where's the morning crew?
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2026-08-27T09:17:28 < fantanYl> Phantom: I'd rather not get banned from other channels I participate in
2026-08-27T09:18:31 < jbo> participated*
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2026-08-27T10:06:17 < qyx> Phantom: there are knobs you have to touch
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2026-08-27T11:07:40 < Steffanx> Why are you so early today Mr jbo?
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2026-08-27T12:30:35 < fantanYl> wrong timezone
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2026-08-27T13:00:40 < zyp> what's the shit for adressable LEDs nowadays? I'd like something with clock/data like the APA102
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2026-08-27T13:13:00 < zyp> sk9822 looks reasonable
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2026-08-27T14:00:32 < Steffanx> I still like the off/idle power consumption of the hd107(s). It's unbeated (?)
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2026-08-27T14:31:13 < jbo> Steffanx, socializing
2026-08-27T14:32:32 < Steffanx> Oh dear..
2026-08-27T14:34:44 < jbo> it was great weather as usual
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2026-08-27T14:43:13 < Steffanx> Not the first time I heard that 
2026-08-27T14:56:22 < jbo> you're just jealous
2026-08-27T16:05:49 < Steffanx> You wish
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2026-08-27T16:15:28 < jbo> I certainly wish all the best in life to you!
2026-08-27T16:15:39 < jbo> may happyness find you and never leave
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2026-08-27T17:01:14 < Steffanx> Thanks Mr Sir jbo
2026-08-27T17:01:18 < Steffanx> Same same 
2026-08-27T17:04:02 < jbo> thank you thank you, lord steffler
2026-08-27T17:04:10 < jbo> *sending-positive-vibes*
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2026-08-27T17:59:43 < Steffanx>  \o/
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--- Day changed pe elo 28 2026
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2026-08-28T02:42:54 < jbo> may the real mawk please stand up
2026-08-28T02:43:57 < qyx> he is in the catacombs
2026-08-28T02:51:34 < jbo> or selling incorrect maps to gullible tourists
2026-08-28T02:52:42 < jbo> qyx, regarding bottom-cooling mosfet packages, how does al core pcb compare to just a bunch of vias when attaching it to a heatsink?
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2026-08-28T09:37:05 < qyx> jbo: bunch of vias can be shorted to the heatsink, mcpcb is more precise and has a specified dielectric strength compared to your variable thick layer of a variable quality glue applied by a variable quality guy
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2026-08-28T12:00:10 < jpa-> zyp: will you be the next kind of norway?
2026-08-28T12:01:04 < jpa-> *king
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2026-08-28T13:12:21 < Steffanx> King [zyps first name] sounds much better than King Harald.
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2026-08-28T13:34:50 < jpa-> let alone King Haakon, like is that even a name?
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2026-08-28T16:58:17 < qyx> ● That's the smoking gun. The .sign.ed25519 section sits at offset 0x032e16 — not 4-byte aligned (off % 4 == 2).
2026-08-28T16:58:33 < qyx> I love when my AI friend points at a smoking gun
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2026-08-28T19:48:29 < jbo> Steffanx, you're welcome
2026-08-28T19:48:59 < Steffanx> For what sir?
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--- Day changed la elo 29 2026
2026-08-29T00:30:51 < qyx> what is night shift innovating?
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2026-08-29T18:46:46 < zyp> anybody know any decent but affordable connectors for a single diff/balanced pair, I'd like something more compact and convenient than a pair of SMAs
2026-08-29T18:47:55 < qyx> NI uses mini-XLR and I hate them
2026-08-29T18:48:04 < qyx> what about 10Base-T1L connectors?
2026-08-29T18:49:10 < zyp> samtec ARM6/AMF6 looks close to what I want, but last I checked they weren't very available and probably $$$
2026-08-29T18:49:21 < qyx> https://www.jae.com/de/topics/detail/id=115589
2026-08-29T18:49:28 < qyx> these look the same asi hartings
2026-08-29T18:51:33 < qyx> oh for high speed?
2026-08-29T18:52:50 < zyp> I'm interested in something suitable for both high speed data lanes and their reference clocks
2026-08-29T18:54:14 < specing> zyp: SATA?
2026-08-29T18:57:06 < zyp> yeah, something in that vein, they're almost a good option for a bidirectional pair of lanes (like SATA is)
2026-08-29T18:57:55 < zyp> the problem with SATA is that SATA cables are wired 1:1 instead of crossing rx to tx, so hosts and drives needs to have mirrored pinouts
2026-08-29T19:01:47 < specing> hmm, can't get crossover sata cable?
2026-08-29T19:02:37 < zyp> they exist but they're weird and uncommon and that defeats the purpose of using an off the shelf standard
2026-08-29T19:02:43 < specing> also.. they connect only one way, so you could just flip the receptable on the other board in the pair?
2026-08-29T19:08:24 < qyx> are you space constrained?
2026-08-29T19:08:48 < qyx> because considering SATA size, I would go with ethernet or usb-c
2026-08-29T19:08:59 < qyx> even if not using all pairs
2026-08-29T19:09:18 < qyx> usb-c doesn't have lock though
2026-08-29T19:10:17 < qyx> and sata is phasing out, whereas usb-c is just becoming dominant
2026-08-29T19:11:01 < specing> SATA is phasing out? What are 3.5" HDDs gonna use?
2026-08-29T19:11:17 < qyx> there will not be 3.5" HDDs
2026-08-29T19:11:52 < zyp> qyx, yeah, I've thought about just using the usb2 pair in usb-c for clock
2026-08-29T19:11:59 < qyx> there are already no optical drives, already no 2.5" HDDs, etc.
2026-08-29T19:12:04 < zyp> that's what all the «pcie over usb3-a» shit does
2026-08-29T19:13:09 < specing> qyx: will HDDs move on to 5" or greater?
2026-08-29T19:13:23 < qyx> no, they will simply vanish
2026-08-29T19:13:31 < specing> and be replaced by ... what?
2026-08-29T19:14:02 < zyp> HDDs are largely replaced by SSDs already
2026-08-29T19:14:04 < qyx> by solid state media as is happening in the server industry and all laptops
2026-08-29T19:14:14 < specing> At 10x the price per unit of storage? Lol
2026-08-29T19:14:32 < specing> sure, but that's just for quick-access, not bulk storage
2026-08-29T19:14:54 < zyp> the difference was less than 10x last I checked, but that was before price bullshit so I'm not sure how it looks today
2026-08-29T19:16:36 < specing> yeah, it was almost just 2x before AI apocalypse
2026-08-29T19:16:57 < specing> err.. 3x
2026-08-29T19:17:00 < qyx> 1TB NVMe is 185e in my eshop, 4TB 3.5" rust starts at 180e
2026-08-29T19:17:08 < specing> I recall 50eur/TB SSD, 20 eur/TB HDD
2026-08-29T19:17:19 < specing> so 4x
2026-08-29T19:18:20 < qyx> and I am not happy with that nor persuading you to use ssds, I myself wasn't able to source HDDs to my 2.5" low power nas anymore
2026-08-29T19:18:59 < qyx> the only 2.5 available the last couple months is a 4TB barracuda
2026-08-29T19:19:49 < specing> I remember that... was thinking... thinking.. nah
2026-08-29T19:21:02 < qyx> what's nah?
2026-08-29T19:34:20 < specing> 'nope'
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2026-08-29T20:52:53 < catphish> Still working on my DAC - about to get everything manufactured - got a bit carried away with my Kicad -> FreeCAD -> Blender -> ChatGPT pipeline
2026-08-29T20:52:53 < catphish> https://i.ibb.co/6cfkNQp1/Chat-GPT-Image-Aug-29-2026-06-40-52-PM.png
2026-08-29T20:52:53 < catphish> https://i.ibb.co/v4tt9zKb/Chat-GPT-Image-Aug-29-2026-06-47-10-PM.png
2026-08-29T20:54:38 < Steffanx> Ty chat gpt
2026-08-29T20:57:27 < zyp> catphish, that raises some questions; what is the purpose of putting two separate devices in a box?, if this is for multichannel audio, doesn't that introduce synchronization issues?
2026-08-29T20:59:36 < catphish> zyp: that's very specific to my customer, they want 4 outputs connected to different things, and only use channel at a time. 4 mono devices would have made more sense for their use case, but they asked for 2 stereo devices
2026-08-29T21:00:37 < catphish> as an off the shelf product, it only needs one board, not both
2026-08-29T21:29:07 < qyx> In order for the DRDY bit to update in the STATUS register, you need to have the DRDY_2INT bit set to 1 in the ERROR_CONFIG register. Is this set?
2026-08-29T21:29:22 < qyx> why on earth you have to enable the interrupt in order to see the flag
2026-08-29T21:35:06 < Phantom> question guys, STM32G431, the CAN RX is also boot0, do you know of an easy way to not have to program the nbootx or whatever option as it the circuit boot into dfu mode...
2026-08-29T21:36:42 < qyx> I guess no
2026-08-29T21:36:52 < qyx> because CAN is idleing high
2026-08-29T21:37:47 < Phantom> maybe a AND logic gate...
2026-08-29T21:37:56 < Phantom> with a pull down
2026-08-29T21:38:07 < qyx> a cap, resistor and a diode could work
2026-08-29T21:38:56 < qyx> or a disconnectable pull down
2026-08-29T21:39:40 < Phantom> do you know if there is a way to have stm32cubeide also program that automatically without having to modify the script files behind?
2026-08-29T21:39:57 < catphish> Phantom: i think if you want to reuse boot0 you have to program the bit. this is why I don't use the G431 for sumultanesous USB and CAN
2026-08-29T21:41:08 < catphish> and as for programming it, not sure how other than just writing scripts
2026-08-29T21:43:08 < Phantom> atleast the DAC bug appear to be fixed
2026-08-29T21:43:13 < Phantom> we'll know probably monday
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2026-08-29T23:30:59 < catphish> woo accurate non-AI renders: https://i.ibb.co/39QvNgWx/photo-front.png / https://i.ibb.co/9k9w9fx6/photo-rear.png
--- Day changed su elo 30 2026
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2026-08-30T01:15:03 < zyp> the wood grain background makes it look very small :p
2026-08-30T01:16:20 < zyp> Phantom, aren't there other pin options?
2026-08-30T01:19:15 < zyp> I worked out a pinout for a G437 based project that uses all three CAN controllers the other day, ended up moving around one of the CAN pins specifically to free up boot0
2026-08-30T01:20:53 < zyp> but then again, if you're not using boot0, I'd just disable it
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2026-08-30T03:12:42 < catphish> zyp: you're right, something's up with my wood grain scaling :)
2026-08-30T03:15:59 < catphish> pretty happy with my rendering pipeline now - better resolution - https://shroton.uk/dac/front.png - https://shroton.uk/dac/rear.png
2026-08-30T03:15:59 < catphish> it's not very exciting, but it's pretty
2026-08-30T03:26:08 < catphish> it was a fun use of a day :)
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2026-08-30T04:30:23 < Phantom> zyp: USB can be on the "usb" pins, while CAN can be on the CAN or USB. I need both.
2026-08-30T04:42:01 < catphish> Phantom: I "fixed" this by just using a G473
2026-08-30T04:42:43 < catphish> but i actually needed boot0 for DFU, if you don't hopefully you can find a way to easily disable it
2026-08-30T04:44:02 < Phantom> if I had more space on that board I'ld have added an AND gate, and simply find a pin that is reset high...
2026-08-30T04:45:38 < catphish> can't you just disable the CAN transceiver at boot?
2026-08-30T04:46:18 < catphish> no can transceiver, means no boot0 signal, then just reassign the pin, it means nothing after the bootloader is done, right?
2026-08-30T04:46:19 < Phantom> the ones I found just disable the transmitter, and partially disable the receiver, but it still stays at the same idle level
2026-08-30T04:46:52 < catphish> idle level is high?
2026-08-30T04:47:32 < Phantom> I forgot but qyx said so, so I assume he is right
2026-08-30T04:47:36 < catphish> anyway, disabling it can't be that much hardship
2026-08-30T04:47:42 < Phantom> but anyway, it trigger the dfu
2026-08-30T04:48:15 < Phantom> you can disable it via boot options, but that mean that stm32cubeide can't be solely used, you also need stm32cubeprogrammer
2026-08-30T04:48:35 < catphish> is that really a problem for a one time thing?
2026-08-30T04:49:18 < Phantom> yes, for "mass" programming, but then I can use stm32cubeprogrammer for that
2026-08-30T04:49:27 < catphish> exactly
2026-08-30T04:49:31 < Phantom> it's just that I got burned trice already
2026-08-30T04:49:34 < Phantom> in dev
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2026-08-30T10:49:23 < vampirefrog> yo what do they mean by this "Combined Rx and Tx FIFO size of 320 × 35 bits with dynamic FIFO sizing"
2026-08-30T10:51:28 < vampirefrog> on the OTG_FS. is that the space I use the max transfer size? thinking of making a 4 in 4 out stereo 48khz audio interface
2026-08-30T10:51:38 < vampirefrog> how did they choose that 35 bit number that's wacky
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2026-08-30T11:04:07 < vampirefrog> oh ok so the RM says there are 1.25KB of dedicated FIFO RAM
2026-08-30T11:04:52 < vampirefrog> on an F4
2026-08-30T11:06:13 < specing> vampirefrog: maybe the FIFO stores data encoded as it would be on the line (with ECC)? Though that'd also be silly 
2026-08-30T11:06:50 < vampirefrog> maybe
2026-08-30T11:12:49 < mercenary> or maybe it stores some status bits, like overflow/CRC error/...
2026-08-30T11:16:56 < vampirefrog> anyway I'll need to find the DAC/ADC for 6 or 8 channels before I can do anything
2026-08-30T11:17:50 < specing> vampirefrog: any mcu does that?
2026-08-30T11:18:08 < vampirefrog> yes but I want an audio DAC
2026-08-30T11:18:11 < specing> ah
2026-08-30T11:18:48 < vampirefrog> but I could use the built in ones for sure
2026-08-30T11:28:32 < zyp> vampirefrog, the extra bits are for marking where packets start and end
2026-08-30T11:28:54 < vampirefrog> yo zyp
2026-08-30T11:29:15 < vampirefrog> that makes sense, but also it's not the same FIFO as the 1.25KB one right? it's a separate one?
2026-08-30T11:30:20 < zyp> no, it's the same one, each 35-bit word contains up to four bytes of actual data and 320*4B is 1280B
2026-08-30T11:30:44 < vampirefrog> wow ok
2026-08-30T11:31:02 < zyp> you don't have to think about how it's organized internally, there's just a set of registers to pull words out of the rxfifo or push words into one of the txfifos
2026-08-30T11:31:17 < vampirefrog> and so for FS iso transfers, that's the amount I can transfer per millisecond right?
2026-08-30T11:32:53 < zyp> not necessarily
2026-08-30T11:33:16 < vampirefrog> you can transfer more?
2026-08-30T11:33:18 < zyp> what are you doing?
2026-08-30T11:33:42 < vampirefrog> audio interface with multiple inputs and outputs
2026-08-30T11:33:50 < vampirefrog> also I want to have two duckers running in the STM32
2026-08-30T11:34:11 < zyp> duckers?
2026-08-30T11:34:35 < vampirefrog> yeah so an audio ducker is when you speak and the audio from another channel gets its volume lowered until you stop speaking
2026-08-30T11:34:40 < vampirefrog> like a sidechaining compressor
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2026-08-30T11:41:24 < vampirefrog> so the interface has to present itself to the computer as at least 2 stereo outputs, so I can output desktop audio separate from text to speech audio. TTS can duck desktop audio and mic can duck both
2026-08-30T11:41:48 < vampirefrog> and then a stereo input so I can record it, and another stereo input for voice calls
2026-08-30T11:41:58 < vampirefrog> although that last one can be mono
2026-08-30T11:42:20 < vampirefrog> and then I can have another mono output just to isolate my mic
2026-08-30T11:43:02 < zyp> hmm, might be doable as long as UAC lets you run those over a single pair of iso pipes
2026-08-30T11:43:22 < vampirefrog> UAC?
2026-08-30T11:43:36 < zyp> usb audio class
2026-08-30T11:43:50 < vampirefrog> I don't mind having multiple iso pipes
2026-08-30T11:44:17 < zyp> you might run out of endpoints, IIRC your controller only supports control + three pairs
2026-08-30T11:44:24 < zyp> which F4 is this?
2026-08-30T11:44:58 < vampirefrog> F407VGT6 I think but I can just pick another one since I want to make a PCB with mixer faders on it too
2026-08-30T11:45:06 < zyp> if 405/407, you could use the OTG_HS block in FS mode, it has more buffer memory and more endpointts
2026-08-30T11:45:24 < vampirefrog> ok but do I need an external PHY for that?
2026-08-30T11:45:31 < zyp> only for HS mode
2026-08-30T11:45:36 < vampirefrog> oh okay
2026-08-30T11:45:37 < zyp> it has an internal FS PHY
2026-08-30T11:45:47 < vampirefrog> I mean that's terrific I'm not even worried anymore
2026-08-30T11:46:03 < vampirefrog> I saw it in the RM but I thought you always need the external PHY for it
2026-08-30T11:46:13 < zyp> nope
2026-08-30T11:46:29 < zyp> you can just use it for FS and you get IIRC 4k of mem and 5 endpoint pairs
2026-08-30T11:47:12 < vampirefrog> absolutely based
2026-08-30T11:48:39 < catphish> Are there real reasons to still use F4 for something like this rather than G4?
2026-08-30T11:49:03 < vampirefrog> well I'm not up to date with that so maybe not
2026-08-30T11:50:36 < catphish> G4 is newer and my go-to for all USB stuff, but i don't know in detail how it compares
2026-08-30T11:52:43 < vampirefrog> hmm says the G4 has 1024 packet memory
2026-08-30T11:53:49 < vampirefrog> and no HS?
2026-08-30T11:53:55 < vampirefrog> https://thelounge.vampi.tech/uploads/8ab963508ed32669/image.png 
2026-08-30T11:54:06 < catphish> oh, if you need HS, that's much more tricky
2026-08-30T11:54:18 < vampirefrog> I don't, I just need a bigger buffer
2026-08-30T11:54:45 < catphish> well if G4 only has 1k and F4 has 4k then i guess F4 is better for you :)
2026-08-30T11:55:27 < catphish> by the way i just build an STM32 DAC - it uses HS on a F723
2026-08-30T11:56:14 < vampirefrog> nice
2026-08-30T11:56:52 < catphish> but that also only has a 1k buffer i think
2026-08-30T11:57:42 < catphish> i'm doing 192k, 32-bit stereo, which needs the extra speed
2026-08-30T11:57:57 < vampirefrog> is it just an output device?
2026-08-30T11:58:01 < vampirefrog> the 1k buffer is probably fine
2026-08-30T11:58:16 < catphish> yes
2026-08-30T11:58:28 < DrZak> 32bit?
2026-08-30T11:58:31 < DrZak> what does that do?
2026-08-30T11:58:51 < vampirefrog> are you one of those audiophiles?
2026-08-30T11:59:13 < DrZak> 1 mil for speakers, 2 mil for soundproof room
2026-08-30T11:59:14 < DrZak> ;D
2026-08-30T11:59:28 < vampirefrog> go ahead and have a seat
2026-08-30T12:00:38 < catphish> DrZak: nothing beyond around 24 bits makes it past the ADC, but in the digital domain, i believe 32-bit input and 32-but output makes for more accurate digital gain control
2026-08-30T12:01:48 < catphish> DrZak: i'm doing 120dB SNR with no moving parts, i wanted all the bits, i don't know to what extent it really matters
2026-08-30T12:04:33 < catphish> 120dB is only 20-bits - so the extra bits are basically just to prevent rounding errors in volume control, and even then i don't know if it actually matters, but i was being safe
2026-08-30T12:06:52 < vampirefrog> https://ebay.io/m/Rtkim1
2026-08-30T12:07:01 < vampirefrog> I can probably use something like this for prototyping actually
2026-08-30T12:07:43 < catphish> that's pretty neat
2026-08-30T12:10:57 < zyp> I worked on a $4k CD player once
2026-08-30T12:11:22 < zyp> it was an off the shelf CD module packed in a fancy box
2026-08-30T12:12:50 < vampirefrog> it do be like dat
2026-08-30T12:13:13 < zyp> the module they used to use were EOL, so my task was doing some changes in hardware to interface with a new module, and updating the UI firmware to talk to it
2026-08-30T12:14:04 < vampirefrog> nice
2026-08-30T12:15:23 < vampirefrog> hmm I don't see a crystal on that AD1938 dev board
2026-08-30T12:20:38 < vampirefrog> oh it has empty pads where you can add one
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2026-08-30T12:25:17 < catphish> my DAC costs £1487 GBP + VAT
2026-08-30T12:26:07 < catphish> but if anyone here wants one i can do special price of £1480 !!
2026-08-30T12:30:10 < vampirefrog> sounds like one heck of a discount
2026-08-30T12:46:10 < mercenary> only £12.39/dBsnr
2026-08-30T13:09:48 < Steffanx> No catphish. Add one pound and it will attract a whole new audience.
2026-08-30T13:10:37 < catphish> Steffanx: lol that's disturbing
2026-08-30T13:11:49 < catphish> apparently pricing things at 14.88 is literally a thing, which is even more disturbing
2026-08-30T13:12:56 < vampirefrog> unfathomably based
2026-08-30T13:19:00 < Steffanx> Laurenceb and dongs will totally buy your DAC or at least spam the price tag everywhere.    Free advertisement 
2026-08-30T13:21:11 < vampirefrog> Steffan can only afford 69
2026-08-30T13:21:13 < qyx> catphishcorp, ltd. DMM-666 Dark Magic Detector, 32 bit
2026-08-30T13:21:42 < qyx> sorry DMD
2026-08-30T13:24:15 < Steffanx> That's all I'm willing to spend vampirefrog ;)
2026-08-30T13:32:36 < catphish> techically for that price you get 2 DACs in one box!
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2026-08-30T13:40:28 < mercenary> buy one, get one free?
2026-08-30T13:43:05 < mercenary> for ultimate annoyance, sell a 'single DAC' version slightly cheaper that has both boards in it, but has the firmware in one board locked out until you give it a magic license key
2026-08-30T13:44:36 < qyx> hen wsit until someone breaks it
2026-08-30T13:44:42 < qyx> *wait
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2026-08-30T14:00:07 < qyx> speaking of connectors and cables, I need something like 2x1 pin micro-fit for DC power usage but a bit more dense
2026-08-30T14:00:27 < qyx> hm maybe there are microfits without those side things
2026-08-30T14:07:25 < qyx> oh microfit+
2026-08-30T14:09:50 < qyx> also keyed white, blue, red, yellow
2026-08-30T14:15:24 < rajkosto> what about a 6 pin power connection to a 5S battery
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2026-08-30T14:46:15 < catphish> mercenary: i like your thinking
2026-08-30T14:48:43 < catphish> mercenary: the marketing trick is to sell the single board version moderately cheaper, and leak the hack yourself to make people think they're stealing from you and getting a great deal
2026-08-30T14:49:33 < mercenary> catphish: evil. and effective.
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2026-08-30T16:30:15 < catphish> i think this may be why my internet has been running at 100Mbps for the last few months! https://shroton.uk/cable.jpg
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2026-08-30T17:07:33 < qyx> looks like most of them is okay!
2026-08-30T17:07:47 < qyx> should be capable of 750 Mbps
2026-08-30T17:16:57 < catphish> true
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--- Log closed ti syys 01 00:00:06 2026