--- Log opened Wed Sep 01 00:00:41 2021
--- Day changed Wed Sep 01 2021
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2021-09-01T00:37:30 < kakium69> taliban have Sikorsky UH-60 helicopters :D
2021-09-01T00:38:06 < kakium69> aka. Black Hawks
2021-09-01T00:39:09 < kakium69> and they can fly them
2021-09-01T00:39:18 < kakium69> hecking conserning
2021-09-01T00:39:20 < mawk> are you sure they can fly them kakium69 ?
2021-09-01T00:39:31 < mawk> you need some training
2021-09-01T00:39:34 < mawk> it's not like a moped
2021-09-01T00:39:36 < kakium69> RT showed video
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2021-09-01T00:39:53 < kakium69> comment suggested that pilot have been trained
2021-09-01T00:40:52 < kakium69> maybe it's the parting gift to make taliban a friend
2021-09-01T00:40:54 < kakium69> ?
2021-09-01T00:40:56 < mawk> lol
2021-09-01T00:41:11 < mawk> well I read that there were 5 helicopter pilots in the afghan army
2021-09-01T00:41:16 < mawk> presumably they all defected to taliban
2021-09-01T00:41:24 < mawk> and that's why there was this video
2021-09-01T00:41:26 < kakium69> ofc they could just make afgan military pilots to fly for them
2021-09-01T00:41:39 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-01T00:42:21 < kakium69> what else do they have?
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2021-09-01T00:43:11 < mawk> planes I think
2021-09-01T00:43:18 < mawk> but they can't fly them
2021-09-01T00:43:20 < mawk> then humvees
2021-09-01T00:43:32 < mawk> a lot lot lot of assault rifles, military outfits
2021-09-01T00:43:43 < kakium69> any abrams tanks?
2021-09-01T00:43:52 < kakium69> what planes?
2021-09-01T00:44:02 < mawk> kakium69: https://i.redd.it/qljetrmbodk71.jpg
2021-09-01T00:44:07 < mawk> the list is here
2021-09-01T00:44:49 < mawk> so small cessnas, and a handful of big troup transport shit
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2021-09-01T00:45:04 < kakium69> they can start pilot training with super tucanos
2021-09-01T00:45:11 < kakium69> then move to bigger planes
2021-09-01T00:45:14 < mawk> no way they're flying the c-130
2021-09-01T00:45:25 < mawk> unless they take pilot lessons in america under a disguise
2021-09-01T00:45:32 < kakium69> why not?
2021-09-01T00:45:42 < kakium69> it's just a multiengine jet
2021-09-01T00:45:59 < mawk> they're sand people that can barely read
2021-09-01T00:46:08 < mawk> flying a large plane is complex
2021-09-01T00:46:11 < mawk> lots of buttons and shit
2021-09-01T00:46:14 < kakium69> some of them
2021-09-01T00:46:33 < mawk> helicopter is even harder
2021-09-01T00:46:38 < kakium69> indeed
2021-09-01T00:47:22 < mawk> taliban sees this, insta-seizure: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/C-130_Hercules_cockpit_hg.jpg/1024px-C-130_Hercules_cockpit_hg.jpg
2021-09-01T00:50:37 < qyx> 23:41 < mawk> well I read that there were 5 helicopter pilots in the afghan army
2021-09-01T00:50:40 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyl9FMHRfOE finnish comedy from 90s mawk
2021-09-01T00:50:47 < qyx> I suppose the situation here is about the same
2021-09-01T00:52:18 < mawk> lol
2021-09-01T00:57:45 < qyx> lol our entire air fleet consists of 29 aircraft and 15 helicopters
2021-09-01T00:58:08 < mawk> lol
2021-09-01T00:58:08 < mawk> less than talibans
2021-09-01T00:58:41 < qyx> 3200 personnel though, so probably enough pilots
2021-09-01T00:59:07 < qyx> you know the joke about switzerland
2021-09-01T00:59:43 < mawk> they're neutral
2021-09-01T00:59:53 < mawk> and keep nazi gold?
2021-09-01T01:00:26 < qyx> us army comes to ask them to use their tanks for a military exercise
2021-09-01T01:00:57 < qyx> a Swiss ask, is one enough or do you need both?
2021-09-01T01:01:46 < mawk> lol
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2021-09-01T01:06:37 < catphish> anyone worked out a way to become a millionaire using stm32 yet?
2021-09-01T01:07:14 < mawk> catphish: ask tct 
2021-09-01T01:09:06 < mawk> he did
2021-09-01T01:09:24 < kakium69> afganistan has 4trillion dollars worth of minerals
2021-09-01T01:10:11 < kakium69> I wonder if the parting gift was enough to resist mineral hungry neighbours
2021-09-01T01:10:38 < catphish> mawk: did he sell arm to the chinese?
2021-09-01T01:11:28 < catphish> i feel like i need to do something profitable soon :)
2021-09-01T01:12:39 < mawk> no catphish , he did something about graphical interfaces
2021-09-01T01:12:41 < mawk> why
2021-09-01T01:12:44 < mawk> did you quit your jobbb?
2021-09-01T01:13:00 < catphish> yes, for the second time in 12 months
2021-09-01T01:13:07 < mawk> why
2021-09-01T01:15:51 < catphish> various reasons, but 1) working in a team that doesn't have enough technical expertise so i end up having nobody to colaborate with 2) trying to do too many things at once 3) exhaustion 4) company too large and corporate for my taste
2021-09-01T01:16:25 < mawk> I see, seems to suck yeah
2021-09-01T01:16:55 < mawk> so you want to freelance now?
2021-09-01T01:17:03 < mawk> ask jadew he has an independant elektroniks business
2021-09-01T01:17:46 < catphish> mostly, my mental health is garbage right now, tired a lot, drinking too much, working in a fast growing business means i'm pressured to take on more than i can cope with
2021-09-01T01:18:29 < catphish> i will take some time to chill and hopefully find a project where i can focus properly
2021-09-01T01:18:50 < mawk> you drink alone?
2021-09-01T01:19:20 < mawk> or with frens
2021-09-01T01:19:33 < catphish> alone-ish
2021-09-01T01:19:48 < catphish> i'm married, but i drink at home, a lot more than my wife does
2021-09-01T01:19:55 < mawk> take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram
2021-09-01T01:20:00 < mawk> radical solution to stop drinking
2021-09-01T01:20:12 < mawk> anti-booze pill
2021-09-01T01:20:34 < catphish> i've heard of that, not a bad idea
2021-09-01T01:21:20 < mawk> is it alcohol + tiredness alone that explain the mental health?
2021-09-01T01:21:30 < kakium69> hardcore drinkers don't mind antabuse
2021-09-01T01:21:54 < kakium69> are you beer guy catphish?
2021-09-01T01:22:03 < mawk> are you sure of that kakium69 
2021-09-01T01:22:07 < mawk> it wrecks everyone
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2021-09-01T01:22:37 < catphish> mawk: hard to say, i improved dramatically when i left my previous job, work stress has made things worse again, but impossible to say which is the root cause
2021-09-01T01:22:54 < mawk> yeah burn-out is serious
2021-09-01T01:23:19 < kakium69> drinking daily affects your health a big way
2021-09-01T01:23:28 < kakium69> without you even noticing it
2021-09-01T01:23:44 < catphish> i ran my own software company for nearly 15 years, essentially being on-call 24/7
2021-09-01T01:23:54 < kakium69> :o
2021-09-01T01:24:15 < catphish> as the company grew, i took on more projects, ultimately i just got tired and didn't want to work any more
2021-09-01T01:24:58 < mawk> why be on-call 24/7 though
2021-09-01T01:25:07 < mawk> set straight hours at which you can be called
2021-09-01T01:25:12 < mawk> and mute your phone outsie
2021-09-01T01:25:14 < mawk> outside
2021-09-01T01:25:14 < kakium69> contractor life
2021-09-01T01:25:29 < catphish> mawk: and what happens if something breaks during those hours? :)
2021-09-01T01:25:33 < mawk> they wait
2021-09-01T01:25:41 < catphish> that's not really an option with a saas business
2021-09-01T01:25:44 < mawk> assert dominance over them
2021-09-01T01:25:47 < mawk> ah
2021-09-01T01:25:51 < mawk> you can hire a devops slave also
2021-09-01T01:26:42 < catphish> anyway, i now drink about 80ml of alcohol a night when i work, which probably explains the tiredness
2021-09-01T01:26:47 < mawk> yes
2021-09-01T01:26:56 < mawk> and probably a lot of the mental health
2021-09-01T01:27:49 < mawk> alcohol is toxic
2021-09-01T01:28:00 < catphish> it tastes nice though
2021-09-01T01:28:31 < catphish> but yeah, i need to take more time i think, and deal with one thing at a time
2021-09-01T01:29:06 < kakium69> 80ml?
2021-09-01T01:29:12 < kakium69> of pure alcohol?
2021-09-01T01:29:29 < catphish> yes
2021-09-01T01:29:37 < kakium69> per night?
2021-09-01T01:29:39 < catphish> yes
2021-09-01T01:31:41 < mawk> so 60g
2021-09-01T01:31:44 < mawk> ±
2021-09-01T01:32:13 < catphish> yeah, about that
2021-09-01T01:35:01 < kakium69> beer?
2021-09-01T01:35:09 < catphish> kakium69: mostly
2021-09-01T01:37:20 < catphish> but also whiskey
2021-09-01T01:37:46 < catphish> it's time i gave it a break anyway, but somehow feels essential after work now
2021-09-01T01:38:04 < catphish> so going to give work a break first, and try to find something i enjoy to kill time
2021-09-01T01:42:48 < kakium69> alcohol is one of worst things to relax after work with
2021-09-01T01:42:48 < catphish> hopefully new stm32 projects!
2021-09-01T01:43:11 < kakium69> I just eat candy
2021-09-01T01:43:19 < catphish> well it's great short-term, but after a while it's kinda self sustaining
2021-09-01T01:43:29 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-01T01:43:34 < kakium69> there is no more relaxation
2021-09-01T01:43:51 < catphish> i actually bought myself a big cup of candy yesterday for the first time since i was a kid, it felt great
2021-09-01T01:44:36 < catphish> might do more of that and save it for the evening when i feel the inevitable exhaustion at about 7pm
2021-09-01T01:46:01 < kakium69> when I didn't have much moneys I drank water for fun
2021-09-01T01:46:08 < kakium69> also coffee
2021-09-01T01:46:20 < kakium69> ate one meal a day
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2021-09-01T01:46:46 < kakium69> it's suprising how you can adapt to new baseline
2021-09-01T01:47:25 < kakium69> I felt fine
2021-09-01T01:48:37 < catphish> i went through a phase in 2019, didn't drink alcohol, only tea and one good meal, lost 20kg, felt awesome physically, but still didn't want to go to work any more
2021-09-01T01:48:49 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-01T01:49:11 < catphish> so i suspect 2 things are wrong with me, and i need to tackle both
2021-09-01T01:49:24 < kakium69> maybe it's not you
2021-09-01T01:50:36 < kakium69> maybe it is
2021-09-01T01:50:55 < catphish> well i'm gonna fix it :)
2021-09-01T01:50:57 < kakium69> but sounds like you need a new direction
2021-09-01T01:51:33 < catphish> yeah, gonna stop the work, and then the alcohol, and then see where i end up
2021-09-01T01:52:06 < catphish> hopefully with some weird electronics projects
2021-09-01T01:52:12 < kakium69> excite!
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2021-09-01T12:37:31 < karlp> pretty misleading diagram: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/mKE7u.png
2021-09-01T12:37:41 < karlp> shows big zones up and to the zones, 
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2021-09-01T12:37:51 < karlp> but important space by the numbers is front/back to keep away
2021-09-01T12:38:59 < zyp> longer is shorter, don't you know?
2021-09-01T12:39:44 < karlp> I suspect the image was made separately from whoever came up wit the numbers, and it was never looked at again.
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2021-09-01T13:01:16 < jpa-> it's not even that well made image, considering it appears as if the module is behind the box
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2021-09-01T13:13:09 < zyp> I didn't see it that way before you pointed it out
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2021-09-01T13:28:18 < qyx> lol same here
2021-09-01T13:29:00 < qyx> but yeah the bottom back edge line is going in front of the module
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2021-09-01T14:25:52 < Laurenceb> I have a jerb idea
2021-09-01T14:25:57 < Laurenceb> racist for hire
2021-09-01T14:26:42 < Laurenceb> 1) hire racist 2) racist says bad shit 3) company has to pay for diversity consultant 4) diversity consultant pays the first guy for his work
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2021-09-01T14:28:16 < specing> diversity consultant lol
2021-09-01T14:28:30 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
2021-09-01T14:28:48 < Laurenceb> >diversity mafia
2021-09-01T14:29:05 < Laurenceb> >be bad if someone was to say something racist... wouldn't it...
2021-09-01T14:30:31 < jpa-> how about just   1) don't hire Laurenceb   2) Laurenceb says shit but who cares  3) no need to pay   4) profit
2021-09-01T14:30:38 < Laurenceb> lol
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2021-09-01T19:39:30 < Laurenceb> https://twitter.com/SholaMos1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1432979131734581248%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_
2021-09-01T19:39:34 < Laurenceb> u have been schooled
2021-09-01T19:39:54 < b-rex> thanks for all the tracking metadata
2021-09-01T19:41:35 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-09-01T19:41:53 < Laurenceb> >DR
2021-09-01T19:42:31 < Laurenceb> of sjw buzzword bingo
2021-09-01T19:43:20 < Steffann> Yes, Dr. of only posting boring shit 
2021-09-01T19:44:47 < Laurenceb> Dr of shitposting
2021-09-01T19:47:33 < qyx> wheres R2COM
2021-09-01T19:47:43 < qyx> I need advice on tantalums
2021-09-01T19:52:31 < Steffann> He got bullied by j p a. He left
2021-09-01T19:52:50 < jpa-> Steffann: nice try but i see you talking about me!
2021-09-01T19:53:23 < Steffann> 🤓
2021-09-01T19:56:31 < qyx> ok not going to use tantalums, only he uses them
2021-09-01T19:58:37 < karlp> for most things you owuld classically use them for, you can use polymer electrolytics now I'm told...
2021-09-01T20:00:28 < qyx> I think the same but he doesn't
2021-09-01T20:00:57 < qyx> Kemet A759 should do
2021-09-01T20:02:04 -!- spacebyte [~spacebyte@193.137.28.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-01T20:02:05 < Steffann> I just didnt want to mention you, mr jpa- 
2021-09-01T20:04:29 < englishman> tants are gr8
2021-09-01T20:04:57 < englishman> poly electrolytics still have those dumb footprints that break off if you look at them wrong
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2021-09-01T20:58:51 < machinehum> Their shit just doesn't build https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/79015/fatal-error-command-exited-with-status-1-usr-bin-cmake---build-home-machinehum-projects-bike_tracker-ncs-nrf-applications-asset_tracker-build
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2021-09-01T22:11:17 < b-rex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fICxwb2ubZk
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2021-09-01T22:20:31 < kakium69> catphish: did you stop?
2021-09-01T22:21:13 < catphish> what, drinking?
2021-09-01T22:21:21 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-01T22:21:24 < catphish> no
2021-09-01T22:22:10 < Steffann> Did you stop snus, kakium69?
2021-09-01T22:22:17 < kakium69> no
2021-09-01T22:22:24 < catphish> i have no interest in doing so until i leave my job next week :)
2021-09-01T22:23:11 < catphish> after that, we'll see, it certainly won't be overnight!
2021-09-01T22:24:29 < kakium69> Steffann: it would make me a hypocrite to tell him to stop or tell it's easy
2021-09-01T22:25:17 < catphish> i'll be fine, just need to find something better to do
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2021-09-01T22:43:40 < Steffann> No, kakium69. it would mean you care more about catphish than about kakium69.
2021-09-01T22:43:52 < kakium69> no
2021-09-01T22:44:25 < Steffann> kyllä
2021-09-01T22:47:15 < PaulFertser> Hm, fake RMA-223 is supposed to be ok but in fact it's somehow rather weak compared to regular rosin+ethanol, so weak that desoldering wick didn't do the job.
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2021-09-01T22:51:44 < Steffann> What are the health risks when using snus kakium69?
2021-09-01T22:51:47 < Steffann> i know nothing about it
2021-09-01T22:54:15 < kakium69> basically nicotine effects
2021-09-01T22:54:58 < kakium69> plus carcinogens
2021-09-01T22:55:17 < kakium69> but at least I don't inhale carcinogens
2021-09-01T22:57:40 < kakium69> "Literature reviews have estimated that users of snus have at least 90–95% less smoking-related mortality, with minimal reduction in life expectancy, if any at all [26, 27]. The health benefits of smokers who completely transition to snus use are similar to those reported for smoking cessation [28]"
2021-09-01T22:59:41 < kakium69> "Since there are no research results that prove a connection between snus and cancer, the EU decided to remove the demand for the cancer warning on Swedish snus in 2001."
2021-09-01T23:00:46 < kakium69> lets see what this warning says on snus puck
2021-09-01T23:01:45 < kakium69> "Denna tobaksvara skadar hälsan och är beroendeframkallande"
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2021-09-01T23:02:36 < kakium69> this tobacco product is harmful for health and addictive!
2021-09-01T23:06:39 < Steffann> :)
2021-09-01T23:34:17 < catphish> i'm just glad alcohol isn't harmful and addictive!
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--- Day changed Thu Sep 02 2021
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2021-09-02T00:08:46 < Laurenceb> 12 irc shitposts, you wont believe number 11
2021-09-02T00:10:25 < catphish> i have chocolate and tea now, much better
2021-09-02T00:12:09 < catphish> i have a complaint about innovation. when working in a busy team "ugh, ideas are cheap, so many possible projects, but so little time", as soon as i relax and have time to build something "..."
2021-09-02T00:15:50 < catphish> i might do some EV electronics soon though, hopefully stm32 time, assuming it can talk to canbus things
2021-09-02T00:17:33 < kakium69> friend made codes for controlling nissan leaf ev drivetrain etc.
2021-09-02T00:17:48 < kakium69> arduino everything
2021-09-02T00:18:23 < catphish> i'm looking at doing something very similar, hopefully stm32
2021-09-02T00:18:53 < catphish> linking parts from diffrent cars together with EV powertrains
2021-09-02T00:18:59 < kakium69> he had the drivetrain and tesla battery in his livingroom
2021-09-02T00:19:15 < kakium69> when I visited once years back
2021-09-02T00:19:34 < kakium69> also ran it from rectified mains
2021-09-02T00:19:43 < kakium69> savage
2021-09-02T00:19:55 < catphish> i built my own inverter a couple of years ago, but will probably use off the shelf stuff for a real EV project
2021-09-02T00:19:56 < kakium69> but it effectivelly does the thing
2021-09-02T00:20:11 < catphish> but would be nice to have a custom central controller
2021-09-02T00:20:23 < kakium69> inverter?
2021-09-02T00:20:35 < kakium69> serious power?
2021-09-02T00:21:23 < catphish> iirc it was a 100A IGBT module i was playing with, i never ran it at more than 100V @ 2A
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2021-09-02T00:22:09 < kakium69> it was for electriciteet bicycle?
2021-09-02T00:22:19 < kakium69> long board?
2021-09-02T00:22:50 < catphish> it wasn't specifically *for* anything, i just wanted to learn how to drive a 3 phase motor
2021-09-02T00:23:15 < kakium69> did you implement all the tricks?
2021-09-02T00:23:24 < catphish> part of my long term goal to build an EV
2021-09-02T00:23:30 < kakium69> but if you do EV project
2021-09-02T00:23:43 < kakium69> sodomize or use as is ready made inverter
2021-09-02T00:23:52 < kakium69> from EV car
2021-09-02T00:24:18 < kakium69> friend also did new brains for some motor-inverter from some car
2021-09-02T00:24:21 < catphish> most motors have matched inverters, so i'll likey use a pair from an existing EV, indeed
2021-09-02T00:25:17 < Steffann> So does it actually work now, kakium69 ?
2021-09-02T00:25:34 < Steffann> As in drive around.
2021-09-02T00:27:05 < catphish> this is the inverter i was playing with, entirely overkill for my experiments https://i.imgur.com/C7yKUw5.jpg
2021-09-02T00:27:50 < kakium69> nice
2021-09-02T00:27:58 < kakium69> it's a beauty
2021-09-02T00:28:24 < catphish> interestingly, this was before i actually learned to use STM32 properly, so the board has a connector to connect stm32 or arduino dev boards
2021-09-02T00:29:14 < kakium69> is that a mother of capacitors there?
2021-09-02T00:29:34 < catphish> kakium69: it sure is, 80uF 1000V film iirc
2021-09-02T00:29:55 < catphish> this thing would power a small car in theory
2021-09-02T00:30:01 < kakium69> what is the voltage rating?
2021-09-02T00:30:05 < kakium69> for the whole thing
2021-09-02T00:31:10 < kakium69> http://packages.8dromeda.net/evprevia/gallery/
2021-09-02T00:31:51 < catphish> kakium69: i think... 1200V
2021-09-02T00:31:58 < kakium69> and 100amps?
2021-09-02T00:32:02 < catphish> kakium69: yes
2021-09-02T00:36:36 < catphish> this is the igbt: https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/igbt/igbt-modules/fs100r12pt4/
2021-09-02T00:39:53 < kakium69> leaf inverter had also battery charger in it
2021-09-02T00:40:00 < kakium69> in the same box
2021-09-02T00:40:44 < catphish> yeah, that's ideal, as long as it can be controlled
2021-09-02T00:40:47 < qyx> catphish: did it work?
2021-09-02T00:42:49 < catphish> qyx: yes, i drove a 250W motor quite successfully
2021-09-02T00:43:25 < catphish> i later swapped that hardware out for a smaller device with integrated current sensing
2021-09-02T00:43:45 < specing> catphish: is a 3phase battery charger the same as running the motor in regenerative breaking?
2021-09-02T00:44:13 < specing> so you can reuse the inverter, just tap the power in and pretend to be breaking
2021-09-02T00:44:20 < qyx> I mean that car
2021-09-02T00:44:22 < qyx> int he gallery
2021-09-02T00:44:33 < catphish> specing: i never played with regen braking, but from what i could tell, it's no different than accelerating, the current just goes the other way
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2021-09-02T00:45:47 < specing> kakium69: was the charger a separate thing?
2021-09-02T00:45:58 < specing> in the box
2021-09-02T00:46:06 < catphish> that project looks cool, i want to build a lightweight car so i can get some decent speed, not worried about range :)
2021-09-02T00:46:19 < specing> catphish: velomobile?
2021-09-02T00:46:41 < catphish> specing: not that light, more like a buggy or kit car
2021-09-02T00:46:58 < specing> e-rickshaw?
2021-09-02T00:47:06 < catphish> lol
2021-09-02T00:47:10 < kakium69> go fast or accelerate fast, both, neither?
2021-09-02T00:47:31 < kakium69> 1 seat, 2 seat or more?
2021-09-02T00:47:46 < catphish> i'm mostly interested in acceleration, this would be my ideal kind of chassis https://mevltd.co.uk/images/sized/news_mev_1-5be7cce8266251776c657787c05de86e.jpg
2021-09-02T00:47:58 < catphish> but i need to get some advice about whether it will work
2021-09-02T00:48:14 < catphish> 2 seater
2021-09-02T00:48:51 < kakium69> carterham 7 ev?
2021-09-02T00:49:05 < catphish> a kit replica, but yes
2021-09-02T00:49:17 < catphish> that one is called a mev exocat
2021-09-02T00:49:46 < catphish> this is the chassis https://www.mevltd.co.uk/assets/images/gallery/NEARLY_DONE.jpg
2021-09-02T00:50:17 < kakium69> 200 horses to that is neck snapping fun
2021-09-02T00:50:36 < catphish> thats what i'm aiming for, or at least the EV equivilent acceleration
2021-09-02T00:50:53 < catphish> it likely doesn't need 200hp of actual power output
2021-09-02T00:51:08 < kakium69> I mean 200horses will smoke the tyres to.. 100kmh?
2021-09-02T00:51:26 < catphish> indeed
2021-09-02T00:51:27 < kakium69> nah maybe not
2021-09-02T00:51:40 < catphish> well, depends totally on geating, torque curve, etc
2021-09-02T00:51:50 < kakium69> yea maybe yes
2021-09-02T00:51:59 < kakium69> I kinda think of my moped
2021-09-02T00:52:18 < kakium69> but it puts 100horses to rear wheel at 80kmh
2021-09-02T00:52:21 < catphish> i know someone locally who converts classic cars to EV
2021-09-02T00:52:27 < catphish> i understand he wants help with electronics
2021-09-02T00:52:50 < kakium69> bellow 80kmh it gives couple of ponies to rear wheel
2021-09-02T00:53:19 < catphish> so i'm gonna go help him, and hopefully he'll give me some advice on what parts i can bolt onto that chassis
2021-09-02T00:54:09 < kakium69> once there was gravel on tarmac just 10meters from where I launched
2021-09-02T00:54:44 < kakium69> engine went straight to limiter and stayed there even after gravel ended
2021-09-02T00:55:16 < kakium69> I was like man this is sick I'm smoking my rear tyre
2021-09-02T00:55:38 < kakium69> then it got grip suddenly
2021-09-02T00:56:12 < catphish> i have a bad habit of using my rev limiter for traction control in the wet
2021-09-02T00:56:45 < kakium69> it jumped straight up after that and I needed to lift like in 0.2seconds
2021-09-02T00:57:02 < kakium69> then I hit my ballz to fuel tank
2021-09-02T00:57:15 < kakium69> when it dropped the front
2021-09-02T00:57:29 < catphish> lol
2021-09-02T00:57:45 < catphish> i've never riden a moped
2021-09-02T00:58:18 < catphish> though i do have a 600cc ninja
2021-09-02T01:03:22 < catphish> kakium69: what is the engine in those photos? looks a lot smaller than i'd expect
2021-09-02T01:06:30 < catphish> i was using an industrial motor previously https://i.imgur.com/mV5Iwyc.jpg
2021-09-02T01:07:36 < kakium69> leaf
2021-09-02T01:07:42 < kakium69> engine-inverter
2021-09-02T01:07:50 < kakium69> it's like 80hp or so idk
2021-09-02T01:08:09 < catphish> that might be enough for me actually
2021-09-02T01:08:22 < kakium69> there is codez and stuff
2021-09-02T01:08:47 < kakium69> problem is to get 300volts to that car
2021-09-02T01:08:58 < kakium69> for leaf motor you need about that
2021-09-02T01:09:13 < kakium69> or for any EV car salvage motor
2021-09-02T01:09:29 < specing> just install an extension cord
2021-09-02T01:09:38 < srk> put a 10kW one on each wheel
2021-09-02T01:10:08 < kakium69> mains powered EV?
2021-09-02T01:10:17 < srk> nah, battery :D
2021-09-02T01:10:17 < catphish> yeah, that was one of my biggest worries when i was playing before, the motor i was using requires 240VAC, so 340VDC
2021-09-02T01:10:32 < kakium69> worries is not over
2021-09-02T01:10:36 < specing> kakium69: yeah why not, like those electric lawnmowers
2021-09-02T01:10:51 < kakium69> you still need hundreds of volts
2021-09-02T01:10:56 < specing> srk: that's how you get your first pothole to be your last pothole
2021-09-02T01:11:00 < catphish> i think my perfect config would be one of those (around 80hp) on each rear wheel
2021-09-02T01:11:39 < catphish> but i have no idea how to mount such a thing, so again, will require mechanical advice
2021-09-02T01:12:34 < catphish> 340V is probably best got from am OEM batter pack designed for the inverter/charger in question
2021-09-02T01:13:10 < srk> specing: why? ~10kW peak BLDC is not that big 
2021-09-02T01:14:49 < catphish> 10kw bldc would be quite small i think
2021-09-02T01:14:56 < catphish> i was looking at motors like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293935045274?hash=item446fe4da9a:g:zA4AAOSw2p1f7d7M
2021-09-02T01:15:04 < srk> hmm this one is 70kg .. :-D https://www.ato.com/10kw-brushless-dc-motor
2021-09-02T01:15:05 < catphish> but... 400V supply is scary
2021-09-02T01:15:13 < srk> but that's 26.2kW peak
2021-09-02T01:15:52 < srk> something like this https://www.ato.com/5-hp-3-8-kw-72v-brushless-dc-motor .. 18.6kg
2021-09-02T01:16:01 < kakium69> leaf motor inverter is less than 70kg
2021-09-02T01:16:11 < kakium69> and it has ponies
2021-09-02T01:16:28 < specing> srk: maybe look for an e-scooter motor?
2021-09-02T01:16:35 < catphish> leaf motor is a lot more power than you said https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294228286068?hash=item44815f5a74:g:kIMAAOSwQxpgyM0R
2021-09-02T01:16:38 < catphish> at least that one is 
2021-09-02T01:16:43 < kakium69> srk: first one looks like a servo
2021-09-02T01:16:44 < kakium69> ?
2021-09-02T01:16:58 < catphish> 110kW peak!
2021-09-02T01:16:59 < srk> specing: yeah, I've just googled randomly. I would use something like that
2021-09-02T01:17:15 < srk> neat
2021-09-02T01:18:01 < kakium69> catphish: friend said a lot more can be pulled than nissan does
2021-09-02T01:18:18 < catphish> interesting
2021-09-02T01:18:23 < kakium69> basically anything he has thrown at it
2021-09-02T01:18:28 < kakium69> wait
2021-09-02T01:18:36 < kakium69> it's the inverter that limits it
2021-09-02T01:18:54 < kakium69> so thats why he was making new brains for the inverter
2021-09-02T01:19:23 < kakium69> but he doesn't need the power because it becomes battery limited anyway
2021-09-02T01:19:31 < kakium69> so project is stalled
2021-09-02T01:20:25 < kakium69> but based on coiling and cooling and shiet the motor can do a lot
2021-09-02T01:21:21 < catphish> anyway, there's a few choices, but i can work with just about anything electrically so i'll get advice about the mechanical stuff first
2021-09-02T01:21:40 < catphish> leaf motor seems good *if* can stomach 400v battery
2021-09-02T01:22:31 < kakium69> if you want that neck snapping fun instead of cart for kids you need real EV motor and you need to figure out how to get them volts
2021-09-02T01:22:44 < kakium69> *kart ?
2021-09-02T01:23:20 < catphish> the full leaf setup seems like an easy way to go, motor, inverter, charter batteries
2021-09-02T01:23:49 < catphish> *charger
2021-09-02T01:32:27 < kakium69> codez available
2021-09-02T01:32:43 < kakium69> just connect can and ask power
2021-09-02T01:32:50 < kakium69> canbus
2021-09-02T01:33:20 < catphish> yeah that's 100% the easy way, just write something that connects to canbus and throttle pedal
2021-09-02T01:33:26 < catphish> which may also be canbus :)
2021-09-02T01:33:31 < kakium69> yebs
2021-09-02T01:33:45 < catphish> and other toys i guess, speedometer, ete etc
2021-09-02T01:34:26 < kakium69> it communicates like currents, voltages, temperatures, rpm
2021-09-02T01:34:32 < catphish> ideal
2021-09-02T01:34:53 < catphish> i'd quite like to learn how to control the motor too, but using the original inverter will likely be super easier
2021-09-02T01:35:04 < kakium69> thing is
2021-09-02T01:35:16 < catphish> my previous experiments were on induction motors, but most cars use synchronous
2021-09-02T01:35:18 < kakium69> the inverter doesn't know anything about the battery
2021-09-02T01:35:22 < catphish> so i'll have to start over
2021-09-02T01:35:27 < kakium69> so you can ask more than battery can deliver
2021-09-02T01:35:37 < catphish> makes sense
2021-09-02T01:35:55 < catphish> but conversely you can add more batteries i guess
2021-09-02T01:36:15 < kakium69> within voltage range you can do what you want
2021-09-02T01:36:32 < catphish> charging seems like it'll be hard
2021-09-02T01:36:53 < catphish> unless i get a ful matching set of battery, charger, and inverter
2021-09-02T01:37:20 < catphish> again, leaf battery might be easer
2021-09-02T01:37:31 < catphish> certainly easier that trying to build my own battery
2021-09-02T01:38:08 < kakium69> idk if leaf battery has been "hacked"
2021-09-02T01:38:29 < kakium69> idk if anyone knows how to talk with it
2021-09-02T01:38:39 < kakium69> ask the dude when you contact him
2021-09-02T01:38:48 < catphish> ah ok
2021-09-02T01:41:01 < catphish> well, any 300-ish volt battery will do, as long as it has a charger :) i'll ask everyone
2021-09-02T01:41:13 < catphish> and some serious safety features!
2021-09-02T01:41:47 < kakium69> make hv cables orange
2021-09-02T01:41:53 < kakium69> it's the law!
2021-09-02T01:42:07 < kakium69> idk
2021-09-02T01:42:14 < kakium69> it seemed important
2021-09-02T01:47:36 < catphish> i like those orange cables
2021-09-02T01:49:15 < kakium69> I think he had also a 1000amp relay
2021-09-02T01:49:29 < kakium69> expensive thing
2021-09-02T01:49:59 < kakium69> and smaller resistor thing to charge up inverter slowly before relay contacts
2021-09-02T01:50:37 < kakium69> there are many things needed and more you get included when you buy stuff the better
2021-09-02T01:51:21 < kakium69> even stuff like cables
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2021-09-02T01:52:22 < kakium69> if you need to buy new cables that is hecking thumb size copper
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2021-09-02T02:03:57 < Laurenceb> brokenbuck mountain
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2021-09-02T08:50:54 < jpa-> no wonder there is chip shortage, i ordered two and received four
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2021-09-02T10:18:22 < ventyl> three of them will be faulty
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2021-09-02T11:03:44 < Steffann> Where is mawk? 
2021-09-02T11:16:39 < mawk> here
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2021-09-02T16:27:08 < Laurenceb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE
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2021-09-02T16:47:17 < bitmask> https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3x7d3/man-tosses-his-penis-out-of-car-window-during-car-chase-with-police
2021-09-02T16:47:42 < Laurenceb> >vice
2021-09-02T16:47:44 < Laurenceb> >news
2021-09-02T16:48:22 < b-rex> reminds me of an article i read in a physical news paper about 15 years ago. the headline was "Severed Penis Found". it was in a gas station microwave. apparently someone was warming up their piss to go cheat a drug test and forgot it.
2021-09-02T16:49:28 < bitmask> :)
2021-09-02T16:50:41 < Laurenceb> https://www.theonion.com/motel-welcomes-guests-with-complimentary-bed-bugs-on-pi-1847599513
2021-09-02T16:51:06 < Laurenceb> https://www.theonion.com/elizabeth-holmes-arrives-to-trial-with-prototype-for-bl-1847584107
2021-09-02T16:51:10 < Laurenceb> wrong link
2021-09-02T16:51:37 < mawk> why was it severed b-rex 
2021-09-02T16:51:41 < ventyl> do you realize, you are reading bullshit?
2021-09-02T16:52:03 < mawk> I think Laurenceb knows what the onion is
2021-09-02T16:52:14 < Laurenceb> more accurate than vice
2021-09-02T16:52:47 < ventyl> nah, whatever
2021-09-02T16:56:24 < b-rex> babylon bee has been killing it lately with real news instead of fake news
2021-09-02T16:56:28 < b-rex> normally they're a fake news site
2021-09-02T16:56:49 < mawk> like which
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2021-09-02T17:29:03 < specing> bi-rex
2021-09-02T17:36:19 < Laurenceb> noob question: can you open a file for reading and for writing using two handles at the same time in lunix?
2021-09-02T17:36:29 < Laurenceb> so handle 1 is for reading and 2 for writing
2021-09-02T17:36:41 < karlp> sure.
2021-09-02T17:36:59 < Laurenceb> cool
2021-09-02T17:37:27 < Laurenceb> they are both only used in the same thread so this should be pretty simple
2021-09-02T17:37:36 < karlp> meh, really not feeling this rust rtfm/rtic style.
2021-09-02T17:38:00 < karlp> power consumption yesterday as ~5 times as high with rust as cube, now it' sonly about 3 times.
2021-09-02T17:38:11 < karlp> I'm sure this is all fixable though... right?
2021-09-02T17:38:45 < specing> sure
2021-09-02T17:38:49 < specing> rewrite it in Ada
2021-09-02T17:41:25 < karlp> we've been over that :)
2021-09-02T17:42:02 < specing> evidently not
2021-09-02T17:42:45 < ventyl> Laurenceb: you can open one file in whatever mode in whatever amount of processes / threads you want. that's a legitimate way of IPC in POSIX environment (roughly equivalent to shared memory). you only have to deal with synchronization on your own
2021-09-02T17:43:48 < Laurenceb> ok, but lunix device driver pseudofiles dont behave the same way right?
2021-09-02T17:44:11 < ventyl> hm, that depends on device
2021-09-02T17:44:15 < karlp> it's all files :)
2021-09-02T17:44:17 < ventyl> some will return E_BUSY
2021-09-02T17:44:18 < karlp> ie, you _can_
2021-09-02T17:44:23 < karlp> but it might not always do what you want...
2021-09-02T17:44:48 < ventyl> some can be opened multiple times (such as serial lines)
2021-09-02T17:44:51 < karlp> classic lolrence though, "can I read/write files with two handles?"
2021-09-02T17:44:55 < ventyl> but the result is essentially undefined
2021-09-02T17:45:05 < karlp> "hurhur, I _actually_ wanted to know about talking to some special devices multiple times...."
2021-09-02T18:09:09 < Laurenceb> anyone know where lunix detailed rtc/ntp logs go?
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2021-09-02T18:37:55 < karlp> https://github.com/rust-embedded/svd2rust/issues/452 is kinda boring.
2021-09-02T18:38:20 < karlp> cube project is p /x *PWR and it nicely pretty prints it all out
2021-09-02T18:56:11 < srk> karlp: https://github.com/distrap/hgdb#inspecting-registers :)
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2021-09-02T19:04:05 < karlp> yeah, there's a few svd options, it's just tediously not "standard"
2021-09-02T19:04:29 < karlp> honestly even just getting access to the registers is harder and les obvious than I thin it should be.
2021-09-02T19:05:00 < karlp> this _may_ be a sideaffect of using a very new only partially "upstreamed" target hal and peripherals crates, but might also just be "that's how it is"
2021-09-02T19:06:11 < karlp> but as soon as someone describers their poject as "this is a monad for x" they're already out of actoin
2021-09-02T19:06:45 < srk> it's just a monoid.. :(
2021-09-02T19:15:51 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/518610865520377856/882787706487332904/bigsex.png?width=997&height=642
2021-09-02T19:16:24 < Laurenceb> >bigsex
2021-09-02T19:16:27 < Laurenceb> >discord
2021-09-02T19:16:51 < jadew> two things you disapprove with?
2021-09-02T19:18:44 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-09-02T19:18:51 < Laurenceb> how the hell does rtc work on lunix
2021-09-02T19:19:07 < Laurenceb> I assumed it would be fully integrated with ntpd/system time
2021-09-02T19:19:10 < Laurenceb> apparently not
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2021-09-02T20:12:53 < icee> Hi peeps.  I'm not able to pull out a dev board and try right now, and I've not been able to find it documented.
2021-09-02T20:13:01 < icee> Does accessing an invalid portion of the memory map generate a hard fault?
2021-09-02T20:13:45 < icee> I am teaching middle schoolers a computer organization and design class, and I'm thinking about giving them stm32's (probably g0) and a crude monitor that lets them enter machine code.  I'd like to implement some "virtual hardware" where when they write to an address, i change it into writes to a screen etc
2021-09-02T20:16:54 < sauce> i would say a pure software simulation seems more suited for this application, there will be far too many edges and unintuitive / uninspectable failure modes to a hardware implementation
2021-09-02T20:20:17 < PaulFertser> icee: it should generate an exception but probably not necessarily hard fault, https://interrupt.memfault.com/blog/cortex-m-fault-debug
2021-09-02T20:33:05 < karlp> closures can only be coerced to `fn` types if they do not capture any variables
2021-09-02T20:33:09 < karlp> who fucking thought up this shit
2021-09-02T20:47:54 < icee> @Paul
2021-09-02T20:48:24 < icee> ack.  PaulFertser -- Thank you.  Yah, I'd seen that, ... it al ldepends on how they've hooked up the buses inside whether there's a bus error or just nothing happens
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2021-09-02T21:55:44 < Laurenceb> holy sheeet its working
2021-09-02T21:55:49 < Laurenceb> Lunix behaving for once
2021-09-02T21:56:13 < Laurenceb> ntpd has to enter "synchronised" state, then system time is used to set RTC every 11 minutes
2021-09-02T21:57:04 < Steffann> Congrats with this great achievement Laurenceb 
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2021-09-02T21:57:28 < Laurenceb> ikr, I had to enter two lines in a config file
2021-09-02T21:58:09 < Laurenceb> then spend two hours abusing the time/date/ntpd config to test it was actually working
2021-09-02T21:59:57 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: and hwclock
2021-09-02T22:00:28 < Laurenceb> looks like its slightly off, maybe due to I2C lag
2021-09-02T22:00:30 < PaulFertser> Laurenceb: what configs did you have to change though?
2021-09-02T22:00:43 < Laurenceb>  /boot/config.txt, standard rpi stuff
2021-09-02T22:00:44 < sauce> idk about you but i have four different ntp implementations that run on linux in arm's reach
2021-09-02T22:00:58 < Laurenceb> sauce: yeah only ntpd worked for me
2021-09-02T22:01:03 < sauce> (which ntpd)
2021-09-02T22:01:03 < PaulFertser> I mean when you install ntpsec or chrony or systemd's timedated they all work like that out of the box.
2021-09-02T22:01:09 < Laurenceb> weird systemd shit was a failure
2021-09-02T22:01:55 < Laurenceb> but I'm running a complex system where local GPS is sometimes available, and sometimes it has to swap to remove NTP server
2021-09-02T22:02:11 < Laurenceb> only ntpd handles it all smoothly out of the box
2021-09-02T22:07:34 < PaulFertser> So just config.txt editing, huh. I soldered a Li battery to bananapi's RTC power input but I had to add a custom kernel module to change LOSCCTRL register on first boot to make it work.
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2021-09-02T22:49:36 < kakium69> Steffann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46f2Pay2Cs0 some finnish musics from 2000s
2021-09-02T22:49:57 < englishman> ty for darude - sandstorm link
2021-09-02T22:50:18 < kakium69> np
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2021-09-02T23:32:20 < karlp> "Arnavion | Rust is C++ with saner defaults"
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2021-09-03T03:58:54 < bitmask> a day later and I still don't have a triangle drawn :P
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2021-09-03T10:07:34 < Steffann> Paint.exe bitmask  ?
2021-09-03T10:07:42 < bitmask> vulkan
2021-09-03T10:08:14 < Steffann> I know, but .. start with paint to finish today goal 
2021-09-03T10:08:24 < Steffann> Today's*
2021-09-03T10:09:16 < Steffann> Does macos come with paint.exe? I don't recall it has something similar by default 
2021-09-03T10:10:47 < bitmask> dont think so
2021-09-03T10:11:02 < bitmask> i actually just got the the visible triangle a minute ago but i have an error im working on
2021-09-03T10:11:26 < bitmask> like i should have the triangle but im having trouble loading the shader file so it just stops before doing anything
2021-09-03T10:11:47 < bitmask> i would really like to get it working but i have no idea why file reading is broken
2021-09-03T10:13:03 < bitmask> gottta be path or permission shit
2021-09-03T10:13:20 < Steffann> Your file reader is already asleep
2021-09-03T10:13:57 < bitmask> haha this code is 1000 lines with the glsl shader codes just to display a triangle
2021-09-03T10:34:25 < ventyl> Steffann: it didn't use to. but built in image viewer has some limited abilities such as crop and hilight
2021-09-03T10:38:34 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/VCewkj4.png
2021-09-03T10:38:37 < bitmask> booya grandma
2021-09-03T10:38:47 < bitmask> first vulkan result :)
2021-09-03T10:53:02 < Steffann> Time to 3dify it now?
2021-09-03T10:54:49 < bitmask> time for bed
2021-09-03T10:55:04 < bitmask> later
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2021-09-03T14:44:24 < Laurenceb> muh
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2021-09-03T16:26:50 < oz4ga> m00h
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2021-09-03T17:01:07 < karlp> been doing this for years, still don't really know the difference between "EXTI CPU wakeup with interrupt mask register" and "EXTI CPU wakeup with event mask register"
2021-09-03T17:02:29 < zyp> events and interrupts have slightly different wakeup paths, with differing masking between wfi and wfe
2021-09-03T17:02:38 < zyp> but I don't remember the specifics without having to look it up
2021-09-03T17:03:06 < karlp> yeah, I'm just poking some rust shit and the examples seem to be configuring wakeup registers and I'm like, "that seems out of scope" and then I went down this rathole of how ti works again
2021-09-03T17:03:11 < zyp> IIRC interrupts also wakes up wfe, so I guess maybe events doesn't wake up wfi
2021-09-03T17:04:28 < karlp> the following trait is implemented but not in scope; perhaps add a `use` for it:
2021-09-03T17:05:09 < jpa-> i've never found any good use for events
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2021-09-03T17:05:27 < karlp> it sounds like you get to wakeup, but not run an irq handler.
2021-09-03T17:05:39 < karlp> and could then check for things manually.
2021-09-03T17:05:41 < karlp> so yeah, whaevs
2021-09-03T17:05:49 < zyp> I think events were originally meant for interprocessor comms in a multi-cpu-system
2021-09-03T17:06:16 < zyp> hmm
2021-09-03T17:06:25 < jpa-> IIRC WFI wakes even if the interrupts are disabled
2021-09-03T17:06:30 < zyp> yes
2021-09-03T17:06:51 < zyp> it has to, otherwise you'd deadlock if you wfi in a critical section :)
2021-09-03T17:07:11 < jpa-> "WFE is often used in spin-locks.  Spin-locks are typically used for resources that are only held for a short period.  So if a thread attempts to lock a spin-lock and finds it already taken, it will "spin" until it becomes available."   ok, that makes sense for multiprocessor systems
2021-09-03T17:07:11 < ventyl> zyp: yeah, there's send event instruction
2021-09-03T17:07:13 < zyp> I did something like that in my coro scheduler code
2021-09-03T17:07:59 < jpa-> so you'd have    lock() { while (!free) { wfe(); } }    and   release() { free = true; sev(); }
2021-09-03T17:08:16 < bitmask> now that I have a triangle in vulkan, what should I make? next gen FPS?
2021-09-03T17:08:27 < bitmask> MMO
2021-09-03T17:08:29 < ventyl> i managed to deal with such stuff in scheduler lock-free and wait-free
2021-09-03T17:08:29 < zyp> IIRC I've got a critical section around if(!ready_tasks) { wfi(); }, because otherwise a task can get set as ready between the check and the wfi
2021-09-03T17:08:42  * karlp blocks his ears again
2021-09-03T17:09:07 < zyp> so it does wfi(), then leaves the critical section to allow ISRs to run, and then rechecks if there's now ready tasks
2021-09-03T17:09:10 < jpa-> zyp: yeah, i do the same, also because otherwise an interrupt could get serviced that changes state of system to "shouldn't sleep anyway"
2021-09-03T17:09:15 < zyp> yes
2021-09-03T17:09:59 < ventyl> I use sacrifice variables
2021-09-03T17:10:24 < ventyl> or shadow, or how you'd call them
2021-09-03T17:10:27 < jpa-> which god do you sacrifice them to?
2021-09-03T17:10:53 < ventyl> jpa-: jupiter, mostly
2021-09-03T17:12:03 < ventyl> sched_yield() runs a loop through list of threads, finds the most suitable to be ran and at the end of loop unconditionally writes it into thread_next for current CPU
2021-09-03T17:12:21 < ventyl> but thread_next is an array having two fields, 0 is major, 1 is sacrifice/shadow
2021-09-03T17:12:26 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/R8cvK
2021-09-03T17:12:50 < ventyl> if ISR causing priority change is executed during this, then volatile variable thread_next_tgt is changed from 0 to 1
2021-09-03T17:13:16 < ventyl> thus thread_next[thread_next_tgt] = thread_id will cause thread_id to be written into shadow field nobody cares about
2021-09-03T17:13:23 < ventyl> wait free lock free
2021-09-03T17:13:43 < jpa-> ventyl: and then you execute wfi() and go sleep waiting for an interrupt that never comes?
2021-09-03T17:14:06 < ventyl> jpa-: kernel never calls wfi / wfe
2021-09-03T17:14:24 < zyp> how do you sleep then?
2021-09-03T17:14:30 < ventyl> worst case scenario is that the only runnable thread is os_idle_thread(), which calls it
2021-09-03T17:15:15 < zyp> ah, that doesn't work for me
2021-09-03T17:15:27 < ventyl> i tend to avoid hanging in kernel context
2021-09-03T17:16:18 < zyp> coroutines are cooperative multitasking, not preemptive, so if I had an idle task calling wfi, it'd never be preempted to stop it from going to sleep
2021-09-03T17:16:43 < ventyl> this kernel can be preemptive if you configure it be like that
2021-09-03T17:17:36 < zyp> I mean, I could run cooperative coroutines in a preemptive thread if desired, but that'd be another multitasking layer
2021-09-03T17:18:33 < zyp> or I could add preemptive coroutines that executes in ISR context
2021-09-03T17:18:45 < ventyl> I wonder how long will it take, so that this concept of my OS hits unbreakable wall of something, which definitely cannot be done there
2021-09-03T17:19:51 < zyp> I've actually considered doing that, because I could then do something like «co_await interrupt;», and it'd go to sleep and wake up in ISR context
2021-09-03T17:20:45 < zyp> it seems like it'd be a good pattern for an interrupt driven state machine like an I2C implementation
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2021-09-03T17:25:20 < ventyl> but I assume, that you are not using syscalls
2021-09-03T17:26:20 < zyp> nah, it's too lightweight to have/need that
2021-09-03T17:26:23 < zyp> although I could
2021-09-03T17:26:46 < ventyl> I have to
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2021-09-03T17:40:36 < karlp> hrm, libopencm3's exti_enable_request() turns on both IMR and EMR.
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2021-09-03T17:40:57 < karlp> rust just turns on imr
2021-09-03T17:41:08  * karlp lala's and pretends that doesn't matter in the real world.
2021-09-03T17:43:46 < karlp> look at this delightful example code: https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32l4xx-hal/blob/master/examples/irq_button.rs#L24
2021-09-03T17:44:06 < srk> lol
2021-09-03T17:45:00 < karlp> you can laugh, it would be 50 lines in 3 files in ada.
2021-09-03T17:50:43 < mawk> <<<<<>><<><>>>
2021-09-03T17:51:05 < mawk> "48.mhz()" what is this sorcery
2021-09-03T17:51:23 < mawk> is it equivalent to mhz(48) like in D?
2021-09-03T17:51:32 < karlp> trait adding operations to uints, does a * 1000000 behind the scenes, 
2021-09-03T17:51:36 < mawk> a
2021-09-03T17:51:40 < Steffanx> Using Unsafe {} in Rust. :O
2021-09-03T17:51:41 < karlp> but apparently compile time
2021-09-03T17:52:10 < mawk> like 48_MHz in C++ where you can define an operator that does that
2021-09-03T17:52:25 < mawk> or 48 _MHz in C if you dare to do #define _MHz *1000000
2021-09-03T17:53:09 < Steffanx> Lol
2021-09-03T17:53:20 < Steffanx> Do it, mawk
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2021-09-03T17:55:05 < mawk> :(
2021-09-03T17:56:00 < mawk> bitmask: make a square now
2021-09-03T17:56:08 < bitmask> heh
2021-09-03T17:56:23 < bitmask> im about to start organizing and cleaning up what i have so far
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2021-09-03T17:57:43 < Steffanx> I think your triangle should move. Then morph intoca square.
2021-09-03T17:57:49 < Steffanx> Into a
2021-09-03T17:58:31 < bitmask> slow down nelly
2021-09-03T17:58:55 < Steffanx> Then a piramid into a cube 
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2021-09-03T17:59:02 < Laurenceb> https://www.google.com/maps/@15.1680481,120.5884522,3a,20.1y,226h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjlM8-oaO2KJar14sj-__tQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
2021-09-03T17:59:02 < Steffanx> While rotating 
2021-09-03T17:59:47 < Steffanx> Can you stop that shit, Laurenceb.. 
2021-09-03T17:59:58 < bitmask> seriously man
2021-09-03T18:00:09 < bitmask> stop focusing your life on dumb shit
2021-09-03T18:00:13 < Laurenceb> sorry I'll stop posting ur photos
2021-09-03T18:00:40 -!- mode/##stm32 [+o Steffanx] by ChanServ
2021-09-03T18:00:53 < bitmask> oh boy
2021-09-03T18:00:59 -!- mode/##stm32 [+b *!~Laurenceb@*.plus.net] by Steffanx
2021-09-03T18:00:59 < bitmask> ban hammer is making an appearance
2021-09-03T18:01:06 -!- Laurenceb was kicked from ##stm32 by Steffanx [Whopwhop]
2021-09-03T18:01:15 -!- mode/##stm32 [-o Steffanx] by Steffanx
2021-09-03T18:01:29 < Steffanx> Easy to avoid ban, but.. lazy
2021-09-03T18:02:30 < bitmask> i dont understand the appeal of what he shitposts all day
2021-09-03T18:03:17 < karlp> no one does
2021-09-03T18:16:07 < specing> karlp: I'm sure I could tell you how many lines in Ada it would be, if only rust was readable and one could understand what that oneliner does
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2021-09-03T18:17:14 < specing> what matters is not number of lines or number of characters per line, but that everything is readable
2021-09-03T18:17:43 < specing> as you read code more often than you write it
2021-09-03T18:17:47 < specing> rust isn't readable
2021-09-03T18:18:05 < specing> Ada is. That is why I develop in Ada
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2021-09-03T18:20:19 < karlp> oh, I fucking _hate_ that rust one liner.
2021-09-03T18:20:30 < karlp> that sort of shit is making me consider aborting back to C.
2021-09-03T18:20:42 < karlp> msot of it has been readable, if unwriteable...
2021-09-03T18:21:29 < mawk> why not C++ like big boys
2021-09-03T18:22:03 < karlp> why, so I can have it be just as obtuse wording as that rust shit?
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2021-09-03T18:24:25 < mawk> you can write your C++ as you write your C
2021-09-03T18:24:30 < mawk> and use only C++ features that are not wordy
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2021-09-03T18:41:10 < qyx> sup Steffanx, whatcha doin
2021-09-03T18:42:03 < Steffanx> Getting out of my car, going to prepare dinner, relax and.. idk 
2021-09-03T18:42:06 < Steffanx> Lol qyx 
2021-09-03T18:42:06 < qyx> a dutch ship is blocking our canal lock
2021-09-03T18:42:16 < qyx> where are your whereabouts
2021-09-03T18:42:35 < qyx> police is on the way, news says
2021-09-03T18:43:07 < mawk> why do you have a car Steffanx 
2021-09-03T18:43:10 < mawk> very useless
2021-09-03T18:43:21 < mawk> take the SPRINTER
2021-09-03T18:43:43 < qyx> pretty sure he calls his ship a car
2021-09-03T18:43:55 < qyx> a did a suez mode
2021-09-03T18:44:46 < Steffanx> Marinetraffic.com which one, qyx?
2021-09-03T18:45:01 < mawk> the boat with immatriculation STEFFAN-NL-1
2021-09-03T18:45:16 < Steffanx> Mawk, because going by car takes 30 minutes, using the train 1 hour
2021-09-03T18:45:25 < Steffanx> + walking
2021-09-03T18:45:36 < Steffanx> + covid people 
2021-09-03T18:46:00 < Steffanx> Also no SPRINTER 
2021-09-03T18:47:43 < qyx> Steffanx: interesting, there is no ship inside, are they lying?
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2021-09-03T18:49:26 < qyx> https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:17.543/centery:47.883/zoom:16
2021-09-03T18:50:51 < Mangy_Dog> Odd..... having an error... Are you not allowed to do || or in case switch?
2021-09-03T18:51:28 < mawk> no
2021-09-03T18:51:29 < qyx> no
2021-09-03T18:51:34 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-09-03T18:51:35 < Mangy_Dog> poop
2021-09-03T18:51:54 < mawk> qyx: sjef?
2021-09-03T18:51:54 < qyx> if you need to or two cases, write them one after another
2021-09-03T18:52:02 < qyx> case first:
2021-09-03T18:52:03 < mawk> case a: case b: lolol; break;
2021-09-03T18:52:04 < qyx> case second:
2021-09-03T18:52:10 < qyx>  blah; break;
2021-09-03T18:52:17 < mawk> and then you have to add a thousand special comments to disable your CI from crying
2021-09-03T18:52:23 < mawk> and even [[fallthrough]] in C++
2021-09-03T18:52:32 < mawk> or __attribute__((__fallthrough__)) in C, if you have -Wfallthrough enabled
2021-09-03T18:52:51 < Mangy_Dog> spent ages writing kernning values for the whole upper lower case alphabet and numericals :p thought it was inefficiant to have it itemised cases for each character. So bunched it to the ones that have matching values.... and yeah getting error
2021-09-03T18:53:24 < mawk> it says position received 8 hours ago qyx 
2021-09-03T18:53:47 < mawk> maybe the ship turned off the transponder to prevent sneaky people tracking it on marinetraffic.com
2021-09-03T18:54:04 < mawk> yes so just do it like that Mangy_Dog 
2021-09-03T18:54:09 < mawk> instead of case A || B: you do case A: case B:
2021-09-03T18:54:13 < mawk> just as easy
2021-09-03T18:54:19 < qyx> hm yeah the position is late indeed
2021-09-03T18:54:25 < Mangy_Dog> nods but felt it might take up uneeded code space
2021-09-03T18:54:30 < Mangy_Dog> https://pastebin.com/Tu5JZEcs
2021-09-03T18:54:32 < mawk> put it on the same line then
2021-09-03T18:54:38 < mawk> case a: case b:
2021-09-03T18:54:53 < Mangy_Dog> dont worry i kept a commented out case by case
2021-09-03T18:54:54 < Mangy_Dog> ohhh
2021-09-03T18:55:08 < Mangy_Dog> so line it up like case a case b instead of oring?
2021-09-03T18:55:15 < mawk> yes
2021-09-03T18:55:19 < mawk> case a: case b:
2021-09-03T18:55:56 < mawk> like this Mangy_Dog https://pastebin.com/WzvkKBkm
2021-09-03T18:56:15 < Mangy_Dog> okays
2021-09-03T18:56:50 < mawk> or you can do a look-up table if you want to feel like a super hacker
2021-09-03T18:56:55 < mawk> but a switch case has better performance
2021-09-03T18:57:02 < mawk> why are you doing manual kerning Mangy_Dog btw 
2021-09-03T18:57:10 < mawk> why are you not using freetype or opentype or whatever
2021-09-03T18:57:30 < Mangy_Dog> as theres no baked kerning in the font system of this chip
2021-09-03T18:57:42 < Mangy_Dog> which is annoying tbh as it works in the simulator but not on the chip
2021-09-03T18:57:51 < Mangy_Dog> so its more like consol spacing
2021-09-03T18:58:04 < Mangy_Dog> so my previewing of text blocks sizes differently in the simulation than it does on my tricorder
2021-09-03T18:58:16 < Mangy_Dog> i also have to rewrite the text rendering system
2021-09-03T18:58:21 < mawk> which font system
2021-09-03T18:58:30 < mawk> https://www.freetype.org/
2021-09-03T18:58:32 < Mangy_Dog> na
2021-09-03T18:58:36 < mawk> use a lib like this
2021-09-03T18:58:40 < mawk> and write directly to a framebuffer
2021-09-03T18:58:41 < Mangy_Dog> its rendered
2021-09-03T18:58:47 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-03T18:58:47 < Mangy_Dog> yeah cant do that
2021-09-03T18:58:48 < Mangy_Dog> :p
2021-09-03T18:58:49 < mawk> why
2021-09-03T18:58:57 < Mangy_Dog> the chip doesnt allow for it
2021-09-03T18:59:03 < mawk> why
2021-09-03T18:59:09 < Mangy_Dog> because its a graphics co processor
2021-09-03T18:59:13 < mawk> you don't have a framebuffer you can write to?
2021-09-03T18:59:24 < mawk> how do you write your current letters the
2021-09-03T18:59:24 < mawk> n
2021-09-03T18:59:26 < Mangy_Dog> not directly
2021-09-03T19:00:02 < Mangy_Dog> i either use the CMD_TEXT api thats built in... or I make my own api as i am right now where i take the asset file tile value 
2021-09-03T19:00:22 < Mangy_Dog> and VERTEXT(x,y,bitmaphandle,char)
2021-09-03T19:00:28 < Mangy_Dog> and VERTEXTFii(x,y,bitmaphandle,char)
2021-09-03T19:00:36 < Mangy_Dog> sorry forgot the fii bit
2021-09-03T19:00:51 < Mangy_Dog> xy being the  xy coords of the character
2021-09-03T19:01:05 < Mangy_Dog> and i create a function that draws a line or block of text
2021-09-03T19:01:30 < mawk> lame
2021-09-03T19:01:33 < mawk> why are you using a chip like this
2021-09-03T19:01:36 < mawk> and not a generic thing
2021-09-03T19:01:43 < mawk> what chip is that
2021-09-03T19:01:48 < Mangy_Dog> because its far more powerful than MCU graphics rendering
2021-09-03T19:01:49 < Steffanx> I see no dutch ship qyx
2021-09-03T19:02:07 < Mangy_Dog> i can hit 60fps in 99% of use cases
2021-09-03T19:02:14 < mawk> yes there is one Steffanx 
2021-09-03T19:02:14 < mawk> it's called sjef
2021-09-03T19:02:16 < Steffanx> Its probably a polish captain  or anything 
2021-09-03T19:02:25 < Mangy_Dog> the one im currently using is the ft810
2021-09-03T19:02:29 < Mangy_Dog> ot bt810
2021-09-03T19:02:31 < Mangy_Dog> or
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2021-09-03T19:03:18 < Mangy_Dog> all the text assets are baked fonts into a graphics asset
2021-09-03T19:03:18 < Steffanx> Cant find it then, mawk
2021-09-03T19:03:21 < Mangy_Dog> not font files
2021-09-03T19:03:33 < mawk> you haven't looked hard enough Steffanx 
2021-09-03T19:04:17 < Steffanx> Ok
2021-09-03T19:04:32 < mawk> Steffanx: https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210903180359945.png
2021-09-03T19:04:39 < mawk> here is sjef
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2021-09-03T19:07:49 < Steffanx> Ah there. Phone is centered somewhere else
2021-09-03T19:18:03 < karlp> https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32-rs/issues/616 this sort of shit is hilarious 
2021-09-03T19:39:29 < jpa-> but the fix seems surprisingly sane
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2021-09-03T20:17:11 < karlp> well, it now has to override an upstream svd...
2021-09-03T20:17:39 < karlp> still, absolutely no idea why, but I can't get any trace with rust at 32MHz, but works at 64.  cube project happily works at either.
2021-09-03T20:21:26 < srk> clock config is hard
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2021-09-03T22:54:18 < kakium69> innovation69
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2021-09-03T23:50:21  * qyx rage time
2021-09-03T23:50:35 < qyx> only a single model of G4 available now, last 22 parts
2021-09-03T23:52:49 < qyx> ok, why the hell is LQFP48 pinout different than QFN48 for the same part
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2021-09-03T23:53:19 < qyx> I nearly errored
--- Day changed Sat Sep 04 2021
2021-09-04T00:00:41 < Steffanx> :)
2021-09-04T00:02:00 < qyx> actually it looks like ST decided to break the legacy pinout and come up with something more reasonable
2021-09-04T00:02:17 < qyx> there is no VSS pin on QFN, it finally makes sense
2021-09-04T00:02:31 < qyx> analog power is not in the overcrowded area around xtals
2021-09-04T00:03:29 < qyx> and the port numbering is saner, more groups with monotonically increasing numbers
2021-09-04T00:04:50 < karlp> yeah, g4 promo brochures was a big bulelt poitn of "fuck all those 100nF caps, we're goign to make ti smaller and cheaper for you"
2021-09-04T00:05:21 < karlp> same for g0 as well, and it carris into u5 iirc,
2021-09-04T00:06:56 < qyx> oh so i should check the power part of the datasheet too
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2021-09-04T05:07:23 < upgrdman> macOS pros: while someone is using their mac, is it possible for another person to remote in (vnc or whatever) as a second user, without interfering with the user physically at the mac?
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2021-09-04T15:52:39 < qyx>  Factory Lead Time:
2021-09-04T15:52:40 < qyx> 72 Weeks 
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2021-09-04T16:27:13 < jpa-> qyx: that is the time for how long they lead you astray by claiming that you'll eventually get chips
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2021-09-04T16:40:01 < Steffanx> I want a dollar for each time qyx say something about stock or lead times. :P
2021-09-04T16:42:42 < jpa-> i want a chip every time
2021-09-04T16:43:00 < Steffanx> I have some chips for you jpa-
2021-09-04T16:43:15 < Steffanx> Want some sdram?
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2021-09-04T17:53:02 < qyx> jpa-: I can give you 74HC125
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2021-09-04T19:11:52 < englishman> First mba course, in the course forum everyone is introducing themselves, saying they are going to this school because it is one of the best and most prestigious. I go and look it up and it is not even in the top 400 business schools. Is this the type of student that business schools attract? That want to delude themselves?
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2021-09-04T19:14:07 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-09-04T19:14:11 < Steffanx> Poor englishman 
2021-09-04T19:14:22 < englishman> :/
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2021-09-04T19:15:24 < englishman> the course is organizational behaviour
2021-09-04T19:15:35 < Steffanx> Sounds boring 
2021-09-04T19:15:43 < englishman> quite different from engineering skool yeah
2021-09-04T19:16:20 < qyx> https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/mba-rankings/global/2020
2021-09-04T19:16:26 < qyx> here?
2021-09-04T19:16:42 < englishman> yes that one
2021-09-04T19:17:01 < qyx> none from .sk :D
2021-09-04T19:17:39 < englishman> but I guess there are some that offer MBAs?
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2021-09-04T19:18:41 < englishman> also none from Czechia or Hungary etc
2021-09-04T19:18:56 < qyx> yeah there are at least two
2021-09-04T19:19:22 < qyx> uni of economics and a school of management
2021-09-04T19:19:25 < englishman> Not even Austria 
2021-09-04T19:19:44 < englishman> maybe English language programs only 
2021-09-04T19:20:27 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/dJJLq/Screenshot_2021-09-04_18-20-14.png
2021-09-04T19:20:36 < qyx> uh oh maybe the level of our schools is not enough :P
2021-09-04T19:25:18 < Steffanx> How they even make these lists?
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2021-09-04T19:31:11 < bitmask> man, i never woulda thought xcode would be buggy
2021-09-04T19:31:28 < bitmask> like stupid bugs
2021-09-04T19:32:14 < bitmask> if i have a few tabs open and im switching between them, i'll click one file and it wont switch to it, the tab graphics show the new one highlighted but it doesnt load it, i have to close the tab and reopen it
2021-09-04T19:34:58 < Steffanx> Try eclipse.
2021-09-04T19:38:45 < bitmask> noooooooo thx
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2021-09-04T19:55:35 < mouseghost> hi gays
2021-09-04T19:55:42 < mouseghost> hows your saturday mrs??
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2021-09-04T20:41:17 < Steffanx> Wonderful mouseghost . Just back from short bicycle trip
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2021-09-04T20:48:24 < mouseghost> Steffanx, how many kms did you make?
2021-09-04T20:49:07 < Steffanx> Only 15 
2021-09-04T20:49:22 < mouseghost> ah cmon, its a good amount!
2021-09-04T20:49:27 < mouseghost> did you see anything nice?
2021-09-04T20:49:51 < Steffanx> Sure. Windmills and sun
2021-09-04T20:50:30 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/mcAracQ
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2021-09-04T20:55:10 < mouseghost> i thought like normal windmills, these are fans, since they generate wind, mr Steffanx
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2021-09-04T20:56:32 < mouseghost> ive got my film developed
2021-09-04T20:56:44 < mouseghost> and i must say, that analog photos are like... more living
2021-09-04T20:56:47 < mouseghost> at least in my opinion
2021-09-04T20:56:51 < mouseghost> more throughout 
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2021-09-04T21:09:44 < qyx> Steffanx: where are the moutains
2021-09-04T21:10:08 < Steffanx> None of those here...
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2021-09-04T21:26:47 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/b0dBp/Screenshot_2021-09-04_20-26-20.png
2021-09-04T21:26:57 < qyx> a little easter egg for those who dared to open the thing
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2021-09-04T21:42:27 < mouseghost> qyx, whats this?
2021-09-04T21:43:47 < qyx> a sun harvester
2021-09-04T21:44:03 < qyx> (pv charger)
2021-09-04T21:44:23 < englishman> looks like a pleasant ride stefs
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2021-09-04T21:51:04 < mouseghost> qyx, reminds me of harvesting fuel from the sun in elite dnagerous
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2021-09-04T22:54:21 < machinehum>  _______ 
2021-09-04T22:54:24 < machinehum> < Moooo >
2021-09-04T22:54:26 < machinehum>  ------- 
2021-09-04T22:54:28 < machinehum>         \   ^__^
2021-09-04T22:54:30 < machinehum>          \  (oo)\_______
2021-09-04T22:54:32 < machinehum>             (__)\       )\/\
2021-09-04T22:54:33 < Steffanx>  
2021-09-04T22:54:34 < machinehum>                 ||----w |
2021-09-04T22:54:36 < machinehum>                 ||     ||
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2021-09-04T22:56:12 < mouseghost> mooo
2021-09-04T23:29:30 < mouseghost> guys
2021-09-04T23:29:34 < mouseghost> is it hard to sell your product?
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2021-09-04T23:33:27 < Steffanx> I dont sell my product.
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2021-09-04T23:42:19 < qyx> mosell Steffanx some mountains
2021-09-04T23:42:22 < qyx> oh he left
2021-09-04T23:44:21 < Steffanx> Lol
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--- Day changed Sun Sep 05 2021
2021-09-05T00:04:51 < Steffanx> For cycling flatland is perfect, qyx
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2021-09-05T02:10:03 < bitmask> alright, time to fill this 4 gallon water tank
2021-09-05T02:10:09 < bitmask> its gonna take like 3 hours
2021-09-05T02:45:04 < b-rex> to fill 4 gallons?
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2021-09-05T02:48:10 < zyp> slow filter
2021-09-05T02:49:06 < bitmask> reverse osmosis
2021-09-05T02:49:09 < bitmask> small countertop unit
2021-09-05T02:49:11 < zyp> but then again that's still faster than the average rate you're gonna tap from it if you're only drinking :p
2021-09-05T03:05:12 < qyx> how much is 4 gallons in normal units
2021-09-05T03:05:27 < qyx> 15 L? quite much
2021-09-05T03:05:41 < qyx> so 120 L per day membrane
2021-09-05T03:07:00 < qyx> we have a 280 L per day max. membrane
2021-09-05T03:07:12 < qyx> it is super slow
2021-09-05T03:07:24 < qyx> but I am feeding it with ~ 3.2 bar only
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2021-09-05T04:35:27 < Mangy_Dog> https://imgur.com/gallery/dEyTWM1/
2021-09-05T04:36:48 < aandrew> Mangy_Dog: definitely got skills for making it look good, good job
2021-09-05T04:36:57 < Mangy_Dog> thankies
2021-09-05T04:37:18 < Mangy_Dog> less than a week of programming left i think till that parts done
2021-09-05T04:37:26 < Mangy_Dog> i think the whole prop should be finished in about 2 weeks
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2021-09-05T12:05:16 < qyx> Steffanx: https://www.schuttevaer.nl/nieuws/actueel/2021/09/03/schipper-blokkeert-slowaakse-sluis-uit-protest-lig-hier-al-8-uur/
2021-09-05T12:06:54 < Steffanx> Lololol qyx 
2021-09-05T12:07:07 < Steffanx> Or more like: trololol 
2021-09-05T12:11:20 < qyx> wtf the comments
2021-09-05T12:11:21 < qyx> Good luck and be careful in these kinds of countries, but there is now publicity and that makes a difference. Hope colleagues will help, together you are stronger.
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2021-09-05T12:11:43 < qyx> I fear to ask what does people on .nl think about people a bit in the east
2021-09-05T12:12:10 < qyx> so it is right to "oh, I don't like something, let's break the whole thing then"
2021-09-05T12:12:25 < qyx> like all antivaxers and shit
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2021-09-05T12:27:24 < Steffanx> No, the guy claims you slovaks are screwing him over, qyx :P
2021-09-05T12:27:59 < Steffanx> So he goes trololol
2021-09-05T12:28:43 < qyx> yeah I have read that
2021-09-05T12:30:12 < Steffanx> And I wouldnt be surprised if corruption is more common in "the east"
2021-09-05T12:30:51 < Steffanx> Hence the "be careful"
2021-09-05T12:47:39 < qyx> thats not untrue, but that is not gonna harm him, it may only help him
2021-09-05T12:49:27 < qyx> so after he collect all instagram and facebook likes for being brave, he can put his $100000 to make them let him go
2021-09-05T12:50:08 < qyx> or maybe not nowadays :>
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2021-09-05T14:36:32 < mawk> yes qyx every dutchman nows that slovakia is as dangerous as chechnya
2021-09-05T14:36:36 < mawk> knows*
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2021-09-05T15:41:02 < mouseghost> hellooo
2021-09-05T15:41:05 < mouseghost> hows you mr Steffanx
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2021-09-05T15:52:11 < Steffanx> Fine fine mouseghost
2021-09-05T15:53:14 < mouseghost> thats fine, then
2021-09-05T15:54:31 < Steffanx> how about mr mouseghost?
2021-09-05T15:54:46 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i guess im also fine
2021-09-05T15:54:52 < Steffanx> awesome
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2021-09-05T20:05:18  * qyx @ stroopwafels https://world-fr.openfoodfacts.org/images/products/433/718/515/7165/front_fr.4.full.jpg
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2021-09-05T20:18:45 < Steffanx> Lol those are german qyx
2021-09-05T20:20:10 < qyx> na ja, butter karamel waffeln
2021-09-05T20:20:16 < qyx> I should have known
2021-09-05T20:20:42 < Steffanx> :)
2021-09-05T20:20:53 < qyx> they look the same though
2021-09-05T20:21:05 < qyx> a bit too dark
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2021-09-05T20:35:30 < zyp> the windmill looks dutch
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2021-09-05T20:51:42 < Steffanx> Lol I dont know if german 😋
2021-09-05T20:52:06 < Steffanx> Just read waffeln so it must be
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2021-09-05T21:05:51 < kakium69> can you join my motorcycle gang Steffanx?
2021-09-05T21:07:29 < kakium69> mc kakisdos
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2021-09-05T21:14:47 < Steffanx> Sure, but I only have a bicycle kakium69 
2021-09-05T21:15:03 < kakium69> I will tow you to speed
2021-09-05T21:15:33 < Steffanx> Enjoy today's trip photo: http://imgur.com/a/y8C6kqc
2021-09-05T21:15:48 < kakium69> you have corn?
2021-09-05T21:16:17 < Steffanx> We have corn 
2021-09-05T21:18:36 < Steffanx> We as in dutchlanders
2021-09-05T21:20:37 < kakium69> your corn
2021-09-05T21:20:41 < kakium69> very nice
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2021-09-05T21:53:58 < Steffanx> idk.. its just corn right.. kakium69?
2021-09-05T21:54:22 < kakium69> I have never seen corn irl
2021-09-05T21:54:33 < Steffanx> What no corn in finland?
2021-09-05T21:55:08 < kakium69> there is some
2021-09-05T21:55:16 < kakium69> used as sileage
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2021-09-05T21:55:40 < kakium69> just driven into cutter with everything
2021-09-05T21:56:01 < qyx> energy much?
2021-09-05T21:56:05 < qyx> or to feed cattle?
2021-09-05T21:56:11 < kakium69> cattle
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2021-09-05T21:56:44 < kakium69> stem, leafs, corn - all
2021-09-05T21:58:23 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypuaJLHK_LQ what a strange instrument
2021-09-05T21:59:02 < Steffanx> Not actually pleasant to listen to, at least not what that guy plays
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2021-09-05T22:03:21 < kakium69> he just merelly took the instrument through it's paces
2021-09-05T22:10:24 < kakium69> what a complex violin
2021-09-05T22:12:24 < kakium69> and way older than violin
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2021-09-05T22:55:43 < Steffanx> Why no corn for human consumption in finland kakium69?
2021-09-05T22:55:55 < kakium69> season too short
2021-09-05T22:57:50 < Steffanx> is the dutch troll gone yet, qyx?
2021-09-05T23:00:49 < kakium69> https://imgur.com/gallery/k4Z9bM3 music nowdays
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--- Day changed Mon Sep 06 2021
2021-09-06T00:05:08 < Steffanx> It doesnt sound so bad, kakium69 
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2021-09-06T01:20:48 < kakium69> https://youtu.be/M1xoS5UB34E?t=138
2021-09-06T01:25:00 < kakium69> the bestest of youtube skits
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2021-09-06T13:12:30 < Steffanx> I see the dutch troll is gone, qyx
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2021-09-06T14:10:25 < qyx> Steffanx: I hope he was deported
2021-09-06T14:10:32 < karlp> yas, fixed ITM at 32MHZ from rust.
2021-09-06T14:10:33 < qyx> such trolls
2021-09-06T14:11:20 < jpa-> karlp: what are you capturing it with?
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2021-09-06T14:22:57 < karlp> openocd.
2021-09-06T14:23:20 < karlp> I was trying this probe-rs thing, and it does RTT really nicely and integrated, but they still onyl talk about itm as "yeah, that too!"
2021-09-06T14:23:37 < karlp> and I was having enough problems with it, so went back to somethign I knew should be working.
2021-09-06T14:23:54 < karlp> problem was the rust hal for wb wasn't actually turning on HSE when it tried to switch to it :)
2021-09-06T14:25:12 < karlp> https://github.com/etactica/stm32wb-hal/commit/1f4230757362003172dbacd6bc7acd303469133c
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2021-09-06T14:54:32 < jpa-> karlp: i meant which hardware
2021-09-06T14:57:12 < karlp> oh, just stlink.  this isnt captureing at that speed, this is a probelm I had where ITM worked when sysclock wsa 64mhz, but not at 32mhz.
2021-09-06T14:57:28 < karlp> sorry, re-reading it sounded like I had 32mhz trace output.
2021-09-06T14:57:34 < karlp> that was poorly worded on my behalf.
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2021-09-06T14:58:20 < jpa-> karlp: oh :)
2021-09-06T14:59:17 < karlp> I'd originally been trying to work out why power consumption was so much higher on the rust demos, and thought, "hrm, 64mhz is more, but shouldn't be _that much_ more" and tried 32 to be "same" as my cube demos, and then ITM broke.
2021-09-06T14:59:23 < karlp> went down fucking rabbit holes.
2021-09-06T14:59:58 < karlp> power consumption differences are msotly just debugger enabled shits.  Will need tweaking to get the last bits out, but can ignore that for now :)
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2021-09-06T16:41:52 < tct> do SDRAM devices typically have a minimum clock frequency?
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2021-09-06T17:55:01 < mawk> Citizens of our beautiful stationary flat Earth keep in mind that Nasholes, fakeX nor all space agencies can't get high enough to show homosapiens a non CGI Blue marble.  Also virgin galactic still a virgin. Just rockets to nowhere 🚀 because of our dome firmament, that's right we are one beautiful family under the dome firmament on our beautiful stationary flat Earth 🙏 let's unite and defund all space agencies and make flat Earth great 
2021-09-06T17:55:01 < mawk> again 🎶💖 let's end the chemtrails, fracking, GMOs, fluoridation of our waters, DEW direct energy weapons, 5G, and obviously the experimental mutant vaccinations 💉🚀 along with the double covidiots masks 😷💉 https://youtu.be/LtEy7bBTRNM
2021-09-06T18:01:11 < Steffanx> Hi Blaxter
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2021-09-06T19:06:57 < mawk> it's too hot outside Steffanx 
2021-09-06T19:07:00 < mawk> I'm cooking
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2021-09-06T19:27:40 < Steffanx> 21 C is perfect mawk
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2021-09-06T19:31:59 < specing> yeah, it's really nice outside
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2021-09-06T19:33:45 < oz4ga> 18C here nice
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2021-09-06T22:14:34 < fenugrec> what's leadtime on stm32F parts... still "52 weeks lol" ?
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2021-09-06T23:24:49 < Steffanx> Ofcourse, mr fenugrec 
2021-09-06T23:31:38 < qyx> no, 72
2021-09-06T23:31:42 < qyx> for some
2021-09-06T23:32:22 < Steffanx> To me all those numbers sound like: we actually have no clue at all
2021-09-06T23:33:14 < qyx> what are they doing all year long?
2021-09-06T23:33:27 < qyx> they were not able to maintain availability
2021-09-06T23:33:33 < Steffanx> Nose picking. Laughing at us
2021-09-06T23:33:53 < qyx> and spamming with webinars and such
2021-09-06T23:34:01 < qyx> for products we are unable to buy
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2021-09-06T23:41:34 < Steffanx> Welcome mr kakium69.  Will you join us in our quest? 
2021-09-06T23:42:10 < kakium69> sounds promising
2021-09-06T23:48:47 < fenugrec> Steffanx, thanks. Good thing I still have a few pic16f left
2021-09-06T23:55:23 < qyx> zyp: have you encountered IOLink?
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--- Day changed Tue Sep 07 2021
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2021-09-07T00:07:12 < zyp> nope
2021-09-07T00:18:51 < qyx> sounds reasonable
2021-09-07T00:19:03 < qyx> I don't want to either
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2021-09-07T01:41:54 < kakium69> china announces cultural revolution 2.0
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2021-09-07T02:23:52 < karlp> nothing about iolink sounds good.
2021-09-07T02:30:58 < qyx> <legacy>
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2021-09-07T11:51:15 < jadew> fucking stupid government
2021-09-07T11:51:24 < jadew> you know how aliexpress collects VAT now?
2021-09-07T11:51:39 < jadew> turns out you still can't get away from the extra tax the post has in place
2021-09-07T11:51:47 < jadew> you have to pay VAT AGAIN
2021-09-07T11:51:58 < jadew> and then recover the external one...
2021-09-07T11:52:03 < jadew> like WTF?
2021-09-07T11:53:02 < jadew> but this only applies to Business (implied by the lady who informed me about this)
2021-09-07T11:53:11 < jadew> really fucking annoying
2021-09-07T11:54:14 < emeryth> if you input your VAT ID in aliexpress, they won't charge you
2021-09-07T11:54:34 < emeryth> aliexpress won't that is
2021-09-07T11:54:47 < jadew> so they managed to 1) make it more difficult for businesses to buy the shit they need. 2) make it even easier for end customers to buy directly from china. 3) go a step closer from fucking up local economy.
2021-09-07T11:55:05 < jadew> emeryth, that's still a problem
2021-09-07T11:55:16 < jadew> why is it more difficult for businesses?
2021-09-07T11:55:25 < jadew> and easier for regular people?
2021-09-07T11:55:34 < jadew> that creates exactly the kind of situation you don't want
2021-09-07T11:55:48 < jadew> it makes chinese crap more competitive than local made shit
2021-09-07T11:56:01 < jadew> (like it wasn't already)
2021-09-07T11:56:24 < jadew> LMFAO
2021-09-07T11:56:32 < jadew> they're saying I have to go there to pay the taxes
2021-09-07T11:56:38 < jadew> I'm gonna tell them to send it back
2021-09-07T11:56:40 < qyx> as if your double taxed stuff wasn't an order of magnitude cheaper than local one
2021-09-07T11:56:44 < jadew> jeez...
2021-09-07T11:57:02 < jadew> qyx, chinese junk is chinese junk, it's priced fairly
2021-09-07T11:57:03 < qyx> personally?
2021-09-07T11:57:11 < jadew> double priced chinese junk is expensive chinese junk
2021-09-07T11:57:31 < jadew> qyx, as in, it cannot be done over the internet (just got the email on this)
2021-09-07T11:58:03 < qyx> I am not surprised
2021-09-07T11:58:28 < qyx> it wasn't that long ago our post office wasn't accepting card payments in their offices
2021-09-07T11:58:40 < qyx> they simply didn't have POS terminals
2021-09-07T11:59:20 < jadew> I told them I reject the package
2021-09-07T11:59:21 < Steffanx> Lolwhat?
2021-09-07T11:59:24 < jadew> they can shut it up their ass
2021-09-07T11:59:28 < jadew> *shove
2021-09-07T11:59:35 < jadew> fucking stupid assholes
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2021-09-07T12:00:23 < Steffanx> Qyx: No POS terminal.. is .sk a 3rd world country?
2021-09-07T12:00:46 < qyx> no, the post office is
2021-09-07T12:01:05 < jadew> yeah, the post offices are garbage over here too
2021-09-07T12:01:19 < jadew> I wish the whole post would get dismantled
2021-09-07T12:01:28 < jadew> and everyone in it fired
2021-09-07T12:01:58 < jadew> man... this pisses me off so bad
2021-09-07T12:02:14 < jadew> I was expecting some other stuff too :/
2021-09-07T12:02:22 < jadew> which wasn't junk
2021-09-07T12:03:06 < jadew> this wasn't really junk either, but then again, I'm not wasting my time (~1.5h) to pay taxes at the office for a $9 purchase
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2021-09-07T12:23:45 < karlp> classic jade: wants the post fired and all closed down, also complains about how private shipping companies hate him and make arbitrary changes and claims
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2021-09-07T12:24:32 < jadew> I like DHL
2021-09-07T12:24:39 < jadew> I only complained about FedEx recently
2021-09-07T12:24:43 < jadew> which are skunks
2021-09-07T12:24:57 < karlp> I'm sure eliminating competition would make them serve you better...
2021-09-07T12:25:13 < jadew> the post is not their competition
2021-09-07T12:25:41 < jadew> the post makes it impossible for other companies to emerge that could take care of this in a more efficient manner
2021-09-07T12:25:46 < jadew> the post is like opensource
2021-09-07T12:26:40 < jadew> full of incompetents, but it's there and displaces the real good stuff
2021-09-07T12:26:44 < jadew> like a fucking weed
2021-09-07T12:27:16 < mawk> the church is making weird music with the ding dong thing today Steffanx 
2021-09-07T12:27:18 < mawk> is it a special day
2021-09-07T12:27:52 < karlp> they're cheering for the new serbian orthodox bishop?
2021-09-07T12:28:24 < mawk> they're all protestant here
2021-09-07T12:28:32 < mawk> they killed all catholics, or sent them to belgium
2021-09-07T12:30:33 < mawk> they're doing the whole gamme now
2021-09-07T12:30:39 < mawk> all notes in descending order
2021-09-07T12:30:43 < mawk> maybe they're testing the bell
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2021-09-07T12:42:35 < Steffanx> Lol idk mawk.
2021-09-07T12:44:57 < jadew> many churches here have speakers now
2021-09-07T12:45:13 < jadew> they play the bell
2021-09-07T12:46:01 < jadew> I prefer the real deal, reminds me how early in history we are
2021-09-07T12:46:57 < jadew> and now that I think about this I feel like watching some adventure movie about exploring and backward cultures
2021-09-07T12:50:15 < mawk> it's a real bell here
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2021-09-07T13:15:50 < karlp> man, usb-c will never be confusing will it, "and the evaluation kit includes two USB-C ports. One USB-C port is Dual Role Power, meaning that it can switch from sink to source on the fly. The other supports Dual Role Data, meaning that it can either act as host or device."
2021-09-07T13:21:45 < Mangy_Dog> hi guys i need a little help with the openOCD GDB debugging stuff in eclipse that i had help with before D:   After we got it working again I was able to see the global and current vars in the variables table. But now theyre gone.... And I cant seem to find anyway to keep track of a var without having to hover over it in my code.
2021-09-07T13:22:02 < Mangy_Dog> Anyone know what i need to do to highlight and keep track of a global var?
2021-09-07T13:22:18 < Mangy_Dog> ideally id like to see it in the table, and updating as it changes while running
2021-09-07T13:25:36 < Mangy_Dog> oh in expressions
2021-09-07T13:25:45 < Mangy_Dog> it wasnt working last night when i tried it but it is now
2021-09-07T13:25:46 < Mangy_Dog> strange
2021-09-07T13:26:08 < Mangy_Dog> oh it only works when paused
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2021-09-07T13:55:11 < jadew> https://media.tenor.co/videos/01681e4ede7338f6f3a05a1590890700/mp4
2021-09-07T14:33:55 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804210713982926894/884751629042216970/image0.jpg
2021-09-07T14:36:42 < mawk> why don't they all support everything at once karlp 
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2021-09-07T14:36:45 < mawk> that would be easier
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2021-09-07T15:07:24 < karlp> why don't what what?
2021-09-07T15:07:36 < karlp> oh, on that board? ask st
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2021-09-07T15:10:56 < tct> I´m looking for shielded FPC extension cables - any ideas where to get these? need like 20cm for a DSI interface (camera)
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2021-09-07T15:52:19 < drzacek> Hello there
2021-09-07T15:54:03 < drzacek> I'm having problems with receiving data over UART. I got two MCUs, one is transmitting 2 bytes of data, the other one is supposed to read it. The HAL_UART_Receive() was returning HAL_TIMEOUT all the time, until I put HAL_UART_Init() before that (I re-init uart before each receive...)
2021-09-07T15:55:06 < drzacek> I'm not sure how this all works, but I think that uart_init() is setting some bits properly so the communication can work, and it needs to do that after each read. Maybe because I am not reading one byte, but that doesn't make much sense to me either
2021-09-07T15:58:51 < drzacek> I am sending those two bytes every milisecond, and I am using freertos. The way I have it now, a separate task that just calls hal_uart_receive() and puts the data into mailbox, it kinda works, but apparently 10 in 100 transmissions is garbage. 
2021-09-07T15:59:10 < drzacek> any hint on what I might be doing wrong? And yes, I know that polling is not the right approach here
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2021-09-07T16:05:01 < karlp> yeah, that sounds like the problem tright there.
2021-09-07T16:05:40 < karlp> rxne interrupt and stuff into a freertos queue or whatever would work.
2021-09-07T16:05:45 < karlp> no need to re-init stuff.
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2021-09-07T16:18:10 < drzacek> so I should drop the separate task completely, and just do the read in interrupt callback function?
2021-09-07T16:18:29 < drzacek> rxne is the not empty, right? 
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2021-09-07T16:22:59 < qyx> you can check https://github.com/iqyx/plumcore/blob/feature/fs-access/services/stm32-uart/stm32-uart.c#L311
2021-09-07T16:23:28 < qyx> it is using libopencm3 to access the hardware, but that can be easily modified
2021-09-07T16:23:36 < qyx> it uses interrupts and freertos stream buffers
2021-09-07T16:23:49 < qyx> and provides an abstract Uart and Stream interface on top
2021-09-07T16:24:28 < drzacek> neat
2021-09-07T16:25:00 < qyx> there is a stream_write, stream_read and the same with timeouts
2021-09-07T16:26:16 < karlp> ahhh. C. a breath of fresh air.
2021-09-07T16:26:46 < karlp> I like your definition of "handling it properly" for ORE ;)
2021-09-07T16:26:54 < qyx> lol
2021-09-07T16:27:17 < zyp> clearing it is the only proper thing to do if you don't want to deadlock :)
2021-09-07T16:27:34 < drzacek> ore?
2021-09-07T16:27:40 < karlp> sure, I get that, it's still very much a "nope, didn't happen!" solution :)
2021-09-07T16:27:45 < zyp> overrun interrupt
2021-09-07T16:28:08 < drzacek> need some lookup table for all those 3-lettered abbreviations
2021-09-07T16:28:14 < karlp> I'd want to at least count it or ITM dump it to find out if it's coming up a lot.
2021-09-07T16:28:28  * karlp suspects he simply doesn't even catch it personally...
2021-09-07T16:29:26 < zyp> same
2021-09-07T16:29:32 < qyx> me?
2021-09-07T16:29:43 < zyp> gonna get burned the first time it happens and deadlocks :)
2021-09-07T16:29:50 < qyx> oh drzacek 
2021-09-07T16:29:56 < zyp> no, me
2021-09-07T16:30:21 < qyx> fuk, he?
2021-09-07T16:31:30  * drzacek hides
2021-09-07T16:35:01 < fenugrec> assert(!ORE)
2021-09-07T16:36:06 < karlp> zyp: meh, watchdog will take care of it ;)
2021-09-07T16:36:25 < zyp> I don't have that enabled either :')
2021-09-07T16:36:42 < karlp> fenugrec: now compile with NDBUG or whatever for production and watch it hang again?
2021-09-07T16:37:30 < fenugrec> karlp, ok, assert(!NDBUG) in every file
2021-09-07T16:37:40 < fenugrec> wait
2021-09-07T16:39:09  * karlp grins
2021-09-07T16:40:03 < fenugrec> I tend to use my own err_assert() wrapper for that reason
2021-09-07T16:41:28 < karlp> yeah, std assert has surprises.
2021-09-07T16:42:09 < karlp> reallllly not convinced this is "better" than C. https://github.com/karlp/red-analol/blob/main/examples/button-rtic.rs
2021-09-07T16:43:46 < jpa-> you can use spaces and forgo intentional code obfuscation, yet achieve LaurenceB-grade IP security
2021-09-07T16:45:58 < karlp> yeah, that's kinda how I've been feeling with this.
2021-09-07T16:46:05 < zyp> haha
2021-09-07T16:46:23 < karlp> it may have taught me enough abotu the HCI layer and IPCC/mailbox shits to know how to do that with less cube though.
2021-09-07T16:46:50 < zyp> needing both <Output<PushPull>> and into_push_pull_output() seems pointlessly redundant
2021-09-07T16:46:55 < karlp> oh tell me about it
2021-09-07T16:47:06 < karlp> fucking gross as shit the amount of things that hvae to be retold
2021-09-07T16:47:21 < karlp> and these per pin specific types
2021-09-07T16:48:37 < karlp> one of the rust embedded people says that rust on stm32 has reached a local maxima, and it's going to be hard to move past this current shit because too many people are involved
2021-09-07T16:48:49 < srk> :))
2021-09-07T16:49:08 < karlp> it's ok, I know I can always fall back on doing it all by myself using my commercial ada compiler
2021-09-07T16:49:24 < zyp> I could see having input and output as different types since you could leave the inputs readonly and so on
2021-09-07T16:49:42 < zyp> but other than that it just seems dumb
2021-09-07T16:50:17 < karlp> yeah, and this "rtic" project which is "the way" is.... very loosely documented, and obviously mostly academic targetting qemu and proving deadlock free, rather than what's actually useful
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2021-09-07T16:50:36 < zyp> hah
2021-09-07T16:50:57 < srk> former rtfm?
2021-09-07T16:51:21 < zyp> no, I think I'll stick to laks a bit longer
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2021-09-07T16:53:41 < bitmask> I have the worst road rage
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2021-09-07T16:55:13 < aandrew> bitmask: who'd you kill today?
2021-09-07T16:55:43 < bitmask> everyone doing under the speed limit and not doing at least 5 over in the fast lane
2021-09-07T16:55:48 < bitmask> so... everyone
2021-09-07T16:55:53 < bitmask> they're all dead
2021-09-07T16:56:45 < aandrew> ah, so this was you this morning: https://twitter.com/Hock680NEWS/status/1435198495720460291?s=20
2021-09-07T16:56:49 < qyx> better wait for mawk to return to paris
2021-09-07T16:57:14 < bitmask> oh shit, pictures up already?
2021-09-07T16:57:22 < bitmask> that was a fun one
2021-09-07T16:57:31 < mawk> what did I do
2021-09-07T16:57:37 < aandrew> can you imagine the smell of a million burning eggs? 
2021-09-07T16:57:54 < qyx> ham and eggs?
2021-09-07T16:58:10 < bitmask> yea throw some hoomans on the fire to get some meat smell goin too
2021-09-07T16:58:12 < qyx> mawk: going 30 km/h in paris
2021-09-07T16:58:18 < aandrew> just eggs, the truck carrying a load of hogs was not involved 
2021-09-07T16:58:37 < mawk> yes qyx the mayor is doing textbook unpopular measures but she still gets re-elected nobody understands why
2021-09-07T16:58:56 < mawk> she's the dominating momma of parisians that's why maybe
2021-09-07T16:59:04 < bitmask> i gotta stop slackin and get this vulkan set up finished, splitting everything into classes is a bitch because they all rely on each other
2021-09-07T16:59:13 < mawk> OOP is a trap bitmask 
2021-09-07T16:59:14 < mawk> go back to C
2021-09-07T16:59:17 < mawk> don't do classes
2021-09-07T16:59:50 < bitmask> psh
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2021-09-07T17:39:55 < mawk> I see a lot of unsafe directives in this code karlp 
2021-09-07T17:39:58 < mawk> doesn't same that safe to me
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2021-09-07T17:55:59 < qyx> shouldn't be rust inherently safe?
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2021-09-07T18:15:07 < mawk> qyx: there's literally written "unsafe" in the code
2021-09-07T18:15:18 < mawk> which means it's not safe and will explode as soon as it runs
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2021-09-07T18:29:21 < karlp> the unsafe on the ITM shits is just hatred, 
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2021-09-07T18:34:25 < mawk> ::steal()
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2021-09-07T19:43:35 < karlp> fucking, just found a charging only usb cable on my desk
2021-09-07T19:43:41 < karlp> what a fucking disaster that shit is.
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2021-09-07T20:01:30 < aandrew> karlp: I dispatch those fucking things with a pair of scissors
2021-09-07T20:02:28 < karlp> I did too.
2021-09-07T20:02:31 < karlp> was furious
2021-09-07T20:02:34 < karlp> no idea where it even came from
2021-09-07T20:02:45 < karlp> had been tryin got bisect this bootloader
2021-09-07T20:02:47 < karlp> made no fucking sense.
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2021-09-07T20:14:09 < englishman> just leave it on a colleague's desk, one you hate
2021-09-07T20:18:30 < aandrew> oh man you're fucking evil
2021-09-07T20:23:22 < englishman> octopart down for anyone?
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2021-09-07T20:25:56 < qyx> worksforme
2021-09-07T20:26:05 < qyx> bot still no G4 :(
2021-09-07T20:29:06 < qyx> whoa G431  415 Expected 10/5/2021 
2021-09-07T20:29:15 < qyx> thats only a month
2021-09-07T20:29:48 < qyx>  1.030 Expected 9/9/2021 
2021-09-07T20:29:49 < qyx> insane
2021-09-07T20:30:06 < qyx> is the world okay again
2021-09-07T20:31:55 < qyx> G474/484/483 are going to be available soon probably and G431 in a month or so
2021-09-07T20:37:07 < Steffanx> Lies
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2021-09-07T20:40:02 < englishman> 415 pieces or 415 reels
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2021-09-07T20:49:08 < qyx> pieces
2021-09-07T20:53:29 < aandrew> 10/5 isn't that bad
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2021-09-07T21:19:24 < bitmask> it took like 4 days but i finally split up this vulkan init shit into classes, it shoudlnt have taken that long
2021-09-07T21:19:29 < bitmask> but anyway, time to debug
2021-09-07T21:25:26 < Steffanx> Im proud of you bitmask?
2021-09-07T21:25:29 < Steffanx> -?
2021-09-07T21:25:31 < bitmask> hah
2021-09-07T21:25:32 < Steffanx> +!
2021-09-07T21:47:56 < bitmask> wow, build succeeded, just gotta modify the drawFrame function and i might be back to where I was 4 days ago :P
2021-09-07T21:48:01 < bitmask> with a colorful triangle
2021-09-07T21:55:52 < Steffanx> Its still not rotting?
2021-09-07T21:55:57 < Steffanx> Lol. Rotating 
2021-09-07T21:57:41 < bitmask> havent started yet
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2021-09-07T22:14:46 < machinehum> I spent days trying to get the nordic thingy91 to connect to a cell network
2021-09-07T22:14:52 < machinehum> Talked to nordic
2021-09-07T22:14:55 < machinehum> The sim was just fucked
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2021-09-07T22:16:15 < qyx> been there with NB-IoT, the network was the cause
2021-09-07T22:16:39 < qyx> after half a year after some infrastructure changes, it works without change
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2021-09-07T22:19:17 < machinehum> There is
2021-09-07T22:19:26 < machinehum> is no NB-IOT coverage where I am
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2021-09-07T22:19:42 < machinehum> All CATM1 or whatever
2021-09-07T22:19:56 < machinehum> Apparently ibasis is sending me a new sim
2021-09-07T22:20:02 < machinehum> See how long that takes
2021-09-07T22:21:01 < kakium69> 5g?
2021-09-07T22:21:29 < qyx> I would like to have cat M1 but only NB1 here
2021-09-07T22:21:47 < qyx> NB1 is stupidly constrained
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2021-09-07T22:23:24 < kakium69> why not just gprs?
2021-09-07T22:23:46 < qyx> are you from the past
2021-09-07T22:24:01 < kakium69> indeed
2021-09-07T22:24:02 < zyp> you still got 2G networks there?
2021-09-07T22:24:06 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-07T22:24:18 < kakium69> 2G 3G 4G 5G
2021-09-07T22:24:39 < kakium69> isn't gprs like 1G?
2021-09-07T22:24:45 < kakium69> edge 2G
2021-09-07T22:24:52 < kakium69> idk
2021-09-07T22:24:54 < qyx> edge is considered 2.5G
2021-09-07T22:24:56 < zyp> no, GSM was 2G
2021-09-07T22:25:07 < Steffanx> Here they are stopping 3g first. Then 2g somewhere in 2025
2021-09-07T22:25:16 < qyx> same here probably
2021-09-07T22:25:50 < zyp> I think they already killed 3G here, and are in the progress of killing 2G
2021-09-07T22:25:50 < qyx> stopping 2G is problematic because of all those industrial boxes
2021-09-07T22:26:04 < kakium69> indeed
2021-09-07T22:26:14 < kakium69> 3g - kill it
2021-09-07T22:26:15 < zyp> that's why they're doing it gradually
2021-09-07T22:26:22 < kakium69> 2g - nah don't touch that
2021-09-07T22:26:49 < qyx> let's imagine you have a DAQ on top of a mountain you didn't touch for ages
2021-09-07T22:26:51 < qyx> and then one day..
2021-09-07T22:31:47 < kakium69> apparently they keep 2g longer in europes
2021-09-07T22:31:54 < kakium69> and 3g longer in americas
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2021-09-07T23:26:08 < bitmask> look how cute these steppers are : https://i.imgur.com/MQty1Jl.jpg
2021-09-07T23:26:10 < bitmask> nema8 to nema17
2021-09-07T23:28:35 < kakium69> flat ones cool
2021-09-07T23:28:38 < kakium69> long one cool
2021-09-07T23:29:34 < bitmask> yea the flat/round ones are really useful if they are strong enough, thats why i got 2 of em
2021-09-07T23:31:38 < bitmask> i need to buy some cheap drivers, i bought 4 or 5 tmc2130 silentstepsticks
2021-09-07T23:31:44 < bitmask> but those are $9 each
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--- Day changed Wed Sep 08 2021
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2021-09-08T00:08:44 < kakium69> why driving steppers is so expensives?
2021-09-08T00:09:54 < bitmask> OMG
2021-09-08T00:09:59 < bitmask> Steffanx i have triangle
2021-09-08T00:10:00 < bitmask> :P
2021-09-08T00:10:23 < bitmask> time to rotate the bitch
2021-09-08T00:10:31 < bitmask> (maybe)
2021-09-08T00:10:37 < bitmask> kakium69 yea why is it expensive
2021-09-08T00:10:55 < sauce> i spun up my printer with a4982 drivers for the first time in awhile and god damn those things are loud
2021-09-08T00:11:26 < bitmask> right? its crazy
2021-09-08T00:11:48 < bitmask> im about to order like 10 more tmc2130s and just pretend i had em all along
2021-09-08T00:12:01 < bitmask> not really... im going to look for cheaper ones
2021-09-08T00:12:10 < bitmask> they cant all be $9
2021-09-08T00:15:56 < zyp> some of them are $10
2021-09-08T00:18:37 < bitmask> yea im sure the tmc5xxx or whatever high current ones are higher, but the 2130 are the best lower power ones for me, they are the SPI version
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2021-09-08T00:51:20 < bitmask> oh yea, ordered the gf's bday present a month in advance, no chance of forgetting :P
2021-09-08T00:51:26 < karlp> englishman: sorry, don't work at a place where I hate my colleagues, quit those jobs in the past :)
2021-09-08T00:52:19 < karlp> i had a phsycial form fit issue today, went looking for parts, found them, and they're cheap, and they're in in stock!
2021-09-08T00:52:24 < karlp> winning 2020/2021!
2021-09-08T00:53:53 < bitmask> alright back to vulkan reading, onto vertex buffers!
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2021-09-08T09:28:01 < ColdKeyboard> Anyone managed to get UART to work on one of those CP2615 chips? I'm looking for drivers everywhere but can't find a thing
2021-09-08T10:12:11 < steve__> ColdKeyboard looks like a cool part but the description saying "plug and play interface solution" and "royalty-free drivers" and you can't finding anything is hilarious
2021-09-08T10:13:41 < steve__> "Simplicity Studio"... more like convoluted mess
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2021-09-08T10:27:54 < mawk> "not recommended for new designs" ColdKeyboard 
2021-09-08T10:28:46 < mawk> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/software/USBXpressHostSDK-Win.zip
2021-09-08T10:28:50 < mawk> https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/software/USBXpressHostSDK-Linux.tar
2021-09-08T10:28:52 < mawk> this thing ColdKeyboard ?
2021-09-08T10:29:55 < mawk> I don't see any UART in the datasheet though
2021-09-08T10:30:47 < mawk> ah yes sorry it's a single paragraph
2021-09-08T10:31:26 < mawk> >The format and content of this communication stream is determined by the application and the CP2615
2021-09-08T10:31:26 < mawk> does not examine or interpret the data.
2021-09-08T10:31:41 < mawk> so, you do your own application using the sdk thing and it will output using UART ColdKeyboard 
2021-09-08T10:31:43 < mawk> that's it
2021-09-08T10:38:10 < steve__> easy as 123
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2021-09-08T12:21:30 < karlp> heh, "To ensure audio quality is not compromised, serial pass-through only supports low throughput communication"
2021-09-08T12:21:39 < karlp> you only get 9600@8n1 if you have audio enabled :)
2021-09-08T12:22:06 < karlp> and rts required if you are over 19200.
2021-09-08T12:22:17 < karlp> was thinking earlier it was an intersting part, but not so much 
2021-09-08T12:23:08 < karlp> nrnd, no replacement. nice.
2021-09-08T12:23:33 < karlp> having all those hid buttons, and adc and the uart as well sounded like quite a combo
2021-09-08T12:27:38 < karlp> super integrated for external i2c controlled i2s codecs.
2021-09-08T12:37:49 < karlp> "newer" ones are even more integrated, but less docs: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/USB24915C
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2021-09-08T12:53:35 < englishman> neato
2021-09-08T12:54:05 < englishman> probably designed especially for tesla
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2021-09-08T12:56:15 < karlp> usb4715 too.
2021-09-08T12:56:35 < karlp> looks like lots of versions of similar shit, all targetteing car head unit shit by the look
2021-09-08T12:57:06 < karlp> enough distractions, time for coffee
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2021-09-08T13:40:56 < steve__> RTS required over 19200?  I'm relatively young but how tf is that even possible?  over 9600 interferes with audio?  I don't even... I'd enjoy an explanation
2021-09-08T13:43:26 < steve__> it sounds like "this product sucks and only works with these conditions".  But I think, how could you even possibly design something that cannot perform outside that?
2021-09-08T13:45:49 < jpa-> by handling the audio samples in software on an underpowered 8051
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2021-09-08T13:55:46 < steve__> lol that's a good explanation jpa-, how the hell.  is it like zero cost or something?
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2021-09-08T14:07:07 < jpa-> steve__: certainly for silabs, considering they've probably licensed the core that they use on so many of their chips
2021-09-08T14:07:54 < jpa-> but, honestly, 9600 bps is plenty for setting the volume on a mixer or similar stuff that the serial port there is probably meant for
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2021-09-08T15:39:47 < c10ud> got any  STM32F767IIT6 pros?
2021-09-08T15:54:53 < Steffanx> Got some money?
2021-09-08T15:55:10 < jpa-> like a real pro
2021-09-08T16:05:51 < zyp> c10ud, https://i.imgur.com/Kf4wYDY.jpg
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2021-09-08T16:20:24 < c10ud> lol
2021-09-08T16:20:56 < c10ud> zyp, could be an idea
2021-09-08T16:21:38 < c10ud> Steffanx, sure, I think we need 10pcs
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2021-09-08T17:55:58 < mawk> because of lead time = 375 years our latest board couldn't be properly prototyped before doing the test run
2021-09-08T17:56:12 < mawk> so the test run boards just received are obviously not working now
2021-09-08T17:56:32 < mawk> there's 1 week left or something before it gets shipped out
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2021-09-08T18:20:04 < c10ud> nice
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2021-09-08T19:09:07 < mawk> I tried using a thermal camera to find a short
2021-09-08T19:09:10 < mawk> it gives pretty images
2021-09-08T19:09:43 < mawk> https://serveur.io/IR000397.JPG
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2021-09-08T19:41:14 < bitmask> when are thermal cameras gonna come down in price, they are neat but i dont need one at those prices
2021-09-08T19:46:35 < karlp> yeah, I bought one as a birthday present, but it's really too much money for how much I'm playing with it
2021-09-08T19:47:49 < bitmask> https://gpuopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Vulkan-API.png
2021-09-08T19:47:58 < Steffanx> Just buy one and forget about how much you paid, bitmask
2021-09-08T19:47:59 < bitmask> man i wish i found that graphic last week
2021-09-08T19:48:15 < bitmask> Steffanx i do that too frequently, even i cant justify a thermal cam
2021-09-08T19:48:47 < Steffanx> Just tell you gf it can show how hot she is.
2021-09-08T19:48:52 < bitmask> haha
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2021-09-08T19:55:45 < jpa-> bitmask: wasn't there that $50 thermal cam :)
2021-09-08T19:56:02 < bitmask> probably not even worth it
2021-09-08T19:56:09 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/274762835818
2021-09-08T19:56:12 < bitmask> what is it, 4x4 pixels?
2021-09-08T19:56:22 < jpa-> 8x8
2021-09-08T19:56:31 < bitmask> yea not worth it
2021-09-08T19:56:38 < jpa-> depends on what you do
2021-09-08T19:56:54 < bitmask> true but a cheap IR thermometer is probably just as useful
2021-09-08T19:57:13 < jpa-> doubtful
2021-09-08T19:57:19 < bitmask> i guess you can still find general hot spots
2021-09-08T19:57:21 < englishman> 8x8 neato
2021-09-08T19:57:41 < jpa-> https://www.ebay.com/itm/363374633856  there are also the 32x24 pixel ones
2021-09-08T19:57:42 < bitmask> but id rather wait for a higher quality than spend $50 now and more later
2021-09-08T19:57:59 < jpa-> sure, if you don't really have any need except "it is neat"
2021-09-08T19:58:43 < mawk> 8×8 pixels
2021-09-08T19:58:54 < mawk> just using your finger-integrated temperature sensor is more precise
2021-09-08T19:59:58 < jpa-> for what purpose?
2021-09-08T20:00:17 < jpa-> really, it depends a lot on what you would use a thermal imager for in the first place
2021-09-08T20:00:46 < mawk> finding short circuits
2021-09-08T20:00:46 < jpa-> 8x8 pixels is already pretty good for cases like "is there a heat leak in my wall" or "is a breaker overheating in my fuse box"
2021-09-08T20:02:34 < jpa-> my ex-workplace had a nice FLIR thermal camera.. but using it to find short circuits on PCBs wasn't that great, because a lot of places heat up
2021-09-08T20:02:49 < jpa-> using a microvolt meter and just walking between points is much more effective
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2021-09-08T20:14:54 < kakium69> just use ice spray
2021-09-08T20:15:29 < kakium69> or butane etc. upside down
2021-09-08T20:15:59 < kakium69> I have one of those spray air bottles
2021-09-08T20:16:16 < kakium69> dust remove thing when you cannot use air compressor
2021-09-08T20:16:33 < kakium69> contains like butaine or propaine
2021-09-08T20:34:24 < mawk> so it nicely catches fire
2021-09-08T20:34:39 < mawk> jpa- then increase voltage until the short really stands out
2021-09-08T20:34:42 < mawk> that's what I did
2021-09-08T20:34:58 < mawk> I cranked it up until around 5A it started glowing on the thermal camera
2021-09-08T20:37:55 < jpa-> wouldn't that easily cause damage to other components also
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2021-09-08T20:56:46 < mawk> I didn't design this board so I have no maternal instinct for it jpa- 
2021-09-08T20:56:50 < mawk> I can break it without regret
2021-09-08T20:58:36 < mawk> also I didn't increase voltage above the max, so other components outside the path of short circuit should be untouched
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2021-09-08T21:13:24 < zyp> the proper thermal cams are crazy sensitive
2021-09-08T21:14:22 < zyp> picks up handprints and shit just from touching a surface: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/C4BVA.png
2021-09-08T21:14:46 < mouseghost> inb4 sex joke
2021-09-08T21:14:49 < zyp> first noticed that effect when I had it pointed at the floor and kid walked past leaving footprints
2021-09-08T21:29:59 < englishman> same but with kitty pawprints
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2021-09-08T21:40:04 < Steffanx> mouseghost: Special almost daily bicycle trip photos for you: http://imgur.com/a/yXGuXMj
2021-09-08T21:40:37 < mouseghost> Steffanx, nice. you live close to these fans? arent they upsetting?
2021-09-08T21:40:52 < Steffanx> Not so close. Few km
2021-09-08T21:41:19 < Steffanx> I cant see them nor hear them, so fine to me 
2021-09-08T21:42:15 < Steffanx> Ok I can see them, but barely.
2021-09-08T21:51:26 < englishman> steffy has lots of fans
2021-09-08T21:52:42 < Steffanx> Yeah there was A LOT of protest, but.. nothing changed
2021-09-08T21:53:31 < Steffanx> Now people complain about low freq. noise, and according to some measurements its really there
2021-09-08T21:53:47 < Steffanx> So its not done yet. They might have to stop them and fix it
2021-09-08T21:54:39 < Steffanx> Audible noise that is.
2021-09-08T21:57:22 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-08T21:57:45 < mouseghost> id become crazy if i had some hum going again and again
2021-09-08T21:58:58 < Steffanx> Me too
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2021-09-08T22:11:37 < bitmask> Scope of application:
2021-09-08T22:11:37 < bitmask> Express cabinets, cabinets, newspaper boxes, lockers, storage shelves, cabinets, cabinets, drawers, meter boxes, cabinets, cabinets and other intensive products, widely used in factories, mines, schools, banks, troops, prisons, courts, hotels , farm, bath center.
2021-09-08T22:11:53 < bitmask> its a <1W solenoid lock
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2021-09-08T22:27:48 < Steffanx> Aliexpress?
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2021-09-08T22:36:20 < englishman> i'm a fan
2021-09-08T22:36:22 < englishman> of steffy
2021-09-08T22:38:00 < Steffanx> Ohno
2021-09-08T22:41:04 < bitmask> of course ali
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2021-09-09T11:58:06 < mouseghost> yawn hello misters
2021-09-09T11:58:09 < mouseghost> hows you mr Steffanx?
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2021-09-09T12:09:51 < ehsanecc> Hi, I've designed a device for a customer 5 years ago with stm32 uc that reads images from microSD card and show them on LCD, and do this loop every 15s. And as i remember, i used maximum possible clock for microSD (SPI connection) to get faster image loading. No writing anything on microSD card and JUST READING! BUT yesterday he called me that he get a lot of microSD damages even after just two weeks of this device power on!! And about 
2021-09-09T12:09:51 < ehsanecc> 300 microSD cards currently damaged from various manufactures and models!! I want to ask if anyone have the same problem? and if you know how to fix this problem or diagnose it, please tell me. Thanks in advance 
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2021-09-09T12:14:51 < mouseghost> ehsanecc, clearly you must have fucked up something or idk
2021-09-09T12:16:19 < ehsanecc> mouseghost: i know, but what it could be? is fast clocking microSD card could the problem?
2021-09-09T12:16:29 < mouseghost> ehsanecc, you sure that you have the correct voltage? also, arent SDs sensitive to ESD by any chance?
2021-09-09T12:16:39 < mouseghost> i doubt. why would it be?
2021-09-09T12:16:44 < mouseghost> unless it overheats or something
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2021-09-09T12:20:15 < ehsanecc> mouseghost: I need to check for voltages. About ESD thing, i think they are but it's somewhat strange that a product is destroying microSD's after every two weeks! :|
2021-09-09T12:20:48 < ehsanecc> mouseghost: PLUS, before any real data damage, loading of data is getting slow
2021-09-09T12:20:57 < mouseghost> weiiiird
2021-09-09T12:21:01 < mouseghost> did you implement it yourself?
2021-09-09T12:21:45 < ehsanecc> schematic and software
2021-09-09T12:22:02 < ehsanecc> PCB was designed by my friend, and he is really good at it i'm sure
2021-09-09T12:22:31 < mouseghost> yea but like, in software, did you use some kind of library or idk?
2021-09-09T12:22:58 < ehsanecc> yes, i used STM32CubeMX if i remember the name correctly
2021-09-09T12:23:08 < ehsanecc> you think it's about software?
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2021-09-09T12:23:15 < mouseghost> oh idk anything
2021-09-09T12:23:29 < mouseghost> id thought that maybe it did write to it after all
2021-09-09T12:23:44 < mouseghost> but that shouldnt wear it out that quickly.. at least i think..
2021-09-09T12:24:03 < ehsanecc> Well it's a wizard, adding libraries (HAL and FatFs and ...) and you can start from some good point to save time!
2021-09-09T12:25:30 < mouseghost> yeah i know. ive used pubemx in the past
2021-09-09T12:25:36 < ehsanecc> mouseghost: I exactly think same, It's too quick even for a cheap microSD (which is not always used because my customer used mid-level to expensive microSD's too) to damage so quickly
2021-09-09T12:26:18 < mouseghost> yea, from my calculations itd be like 80k writes; and cards are supposed to last longer..
2021-09-09T12:26:42 < ehsanecc> mouseghost: thanks for your time and response, i hope i found a solution for it! :| and if i do, i will share it here :)
2021-09-09T12:27:00 < mouseghost> np, i dont really know anything, and yes do share!
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2021-09-09T12:48:05 < karlp> "provides a high-performance solution enabled by a 6-layer PCB with through-hole design for better EMC performance."
2021-09-09T12:50:44 < englishman> lol
2021-09-09T12:52:15 < karlp> from https://uk.farnell.com/nxp/mimxrt1160-evk/eval-kit-cross-over-mcu/dp/3770350
2021-09-09T12:52:25 < karlp> I wonder who wrotte that
2021-09-09T12:52:51 < srk> high performance through-hole arduino header
2021-09-09T12:55:03 < karlp> board user manual actually describes stackup in detail, which is odd.
2021-09-09T12:55:07 < karlp> or, new to me at least.
2021-09-09T12:55:20 < karlp> also, 1/2oz on the outer layers, 1oz on the inner? that also seems odd.
2021-09-09T12:55:37 < karlp> at least all the cheap fabs I look at specs for do 1/2 on the inners, 1 on the outer
2021-09-09T12:56:00 < karlp> heh, jlc does purple pcbs now
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2021-09-09T12:57:18 < jpa-> maybe it is just a typo and they meant "through-out design" or something
2021-09-09T12:58:03 < englishman> all the cheap fabs are backwards compared to what white people fabs do ime
2021-09-09T12:58:45 < karlp> englishman: so how does that happen? and why?
2021-09-09T12:59:20 < englishman> i don’t quite remember but i do have some ipc document about it. 
2021-09-09T12:59:36 < englishman> Something about proper plating of the vias
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2021-09-09T13:30:26 < karlp> ok, eurocircuits does default to 1/2/oz outer, 1oz inner.
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2021-09-09T13:32:17 < karlp> heh, they don't even allow 1/2 inner, 1oz outer
2021-09-09T13:32:56 < jpa-> and aisler starts with 0.5 outer, 1 inner, but then plates the outer to 1
2021-09-09T13:35:47 < karlp> ah, yes, eurocircuits defaults to 1/2 outer, but says it ends at 1oz final.  ~18/35micron
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2021-09-09T14:44:56 < drzacek> okay so I'm having a hard time understanding this, but I think I finally got it, after watching countless tutorials that don't really addressed this
2021-09-09T14:45:52 < drzacek> If I want to use interrupt, no matter what kind, I activate some stuff in cubemx as usual, and then I just define the interrupt routine/function in my code? 
2021-09-09T14:46:30 < drzacek> how does it know that it needs to call it? why this isn't a redefinition of function? Why not some "register_interrupt(interrupt type, function pointer)" or something?
2021-09-09T14:46:35 < drzacek> confusing, confusing
2021-09-09T14:48:06 < karlp> drzacek: the handlers are often defined as "weak symbols"
2021-09-09T14:48:20 < kakium69> it is redefinition of function
2021-09-09T14:48:21 < karlp> so as soon as you define a matching one, that takes precendence, no concerns with redefinition of functions.
2021-09-09T14:48:36 < drzacek> got it
2021-09-09T14:48:56 < drzacek> kinda wished this was somehow mentioned, somewhere. Probly was, in the official documentation
2021-09-09T14:48:57 < kakium69> default definitions are in your startup file
2021-09-09T14:49:00 < karlp> you could make a system that forced you to register things, but it just adds a layer of indirection for no particular gain.
2021-09-09T14:49:02 < karlp> it'
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2021-09-09T14:49:21 < karlp> s not really interesting to most people, but if you ctrl-click around enough, you can normally find both implementations...
2021-09-09T14:50:54 < drzacek> it also looks like it takes care of all interrupts for given type, aka timer interrupts functions (is this thing called ISR?) are for all timers, and need checks if the pointer passed is really for the one timer I care about
2021-09-09T14:51:09 < drzacek> so by not defining enough stuff inside, can I kill something? 
2021-09-09T14:51:40 < kakium69> you mean brick?
2021-09-09T14:51:45 < drzacek> I kinda explain it badly, but what I mean is - by redefining my own function, do I need to make some global call, so the stuff that were happening in original functions got called?
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2021-09-09T14:52:21 < kakium69> there usually is nothing in default interrupt routine
2021-09-09T14:52:23 < drzacek> I think about overriding events in qt now, and if I did that, I needed to call the base class event handler in my member function too, otherwise it was borked
2021-09-09T14:52:51 < karlp> drzacek: well, cube hal has it's own layers...
2021-09-09T14:53:21 < karlp> I can't speak much to how they do that, but iirc, yes, they do use layers that you need to be aware of.
2021-09-09T14:55:47 < drzacek> so when I make my own function, I should at least check up the original one too, to see  if something interesting is there
2021-09-09T14:56:09 < karlp> if you're in hal land yeah
2021-09-09T14:56:22 < drzacek> yes #halislove
2021-09-09T14:56:43 < drzacek> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE
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2021-09-09T15:39:30 < englishman> maybe the chinese lie
2021-09-09T15:40:04 < englishman> my pcb guy says he now pays more for material than a complete pcb from china
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2021-09-09T17:55:30 < karlp> rust-tacular for setting sequence lenghts to n-1...: https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32l4xx-hal/blob/master/src/adc.rs#L50-L115
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2021-09-09T18:09:18 < jpa-> karlp: lol :D
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2021-09-09T18:26:34 < bitmask> Steffanx look how far ive come, a SECOND triangle! https://i.imgur.com/zPdXvsM.png
2021-09-09T18:26:35 < bitmask> :P
2021-09-09T18:28:12 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-246-19.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2021-09-09T18:29:49 < jpa-> here in finland we call that a square
2021-09-09T18:29:58 < jpa-> or maybe rectangle ;)
2021-09-09T18:30:30 < bitmask> :)
2021-09-09T18:56:36 < karlp> here, this one's better, it "properly" uses documentation in teh comments ;) https://github.com/stm32-rs/stm32g4xx-hal/blob/master/src/adc.rs#L75-L152
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2021-09-09T18:59:11 < qyx> karlp: wtf are they serious
2021-09-09T18:59:31 < karlp> I don't know.
2021-09-09T18:59:40 < karlp> I think it's copy/paste to glory.
2021-09-09T18:59:44 < qyx> do you use the thing voluntarily?
2021-09-09T19:01:46 < karlp> at the moment, though I'm questioning my sanity, and if it doens't pick up a lot in the next 12 hours it's all goign in the bin.
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2021-09-09T19:03:24 < jpa-> maybe they took a look at STM32Cube and went "hey, we have such fancy type system that none of this will appear in compiled code, now we can add even more useless code than vendor libs!"
2021-09-09T19:11:43 < qyx> ventyl: you wanted to learn rust ^
2021-09-09T19:11:58 < qyx> stm32-rs may be a great opportunity to start
2021-09-09T19:12:49 < Steffanx> Im pround² now, bitmask 
2021-09-09T19:12:54 < Steffanx> -n
2021-09-09T19:12:57 < Steffanx> Damn it
2021-09-09T19:12:59 < bitmask> :D
2021-09-09T19:13:13 < bitmask> i get rotation this chapter though!
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2021-09-09T19:17:33 < kakium69> bitmask: what is wrong with opengl2.1?
2021-09-09T19:17:51 < bitmask> why learn something outdated
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2021-09-09T19:19:19 < bitmask> vulkan be da future
2021-09-09T19:19:22 < bitmask> this is the way
2021-09-09T19:19:30 < kakium69> show me codez
2021-09-09T19:20:03 < kakium69> we open source your project by force
2021-09-09T19:20:15 < bitmask> its 1000 lines just to render a triangle! :P
2021-09-09T19:20:23 < kakium69> hmm
2021-09-09T19:20:32 < bitmask> its crazy but i mean its the way things are going
2021-09-09T19:20:37 < kakium69> I think with opengl it takes like 5lines
2021-09-09T19:20:40 < bitmask> and once you build helper functions it wont be an issue
2021-09-09T19:21:03 < kakium69> 5+SDL or similar to create viewport or whatever it's called
2021-09-09T19:21:54 < bitmask> yea its very verbose but you have more control and it doesnt really matter once you write the initial code. you write the helpers and then just use that from then on when starting new projects, no biggie
2021-09-09T19:22:59 < kakium69> show the codez
2021-09-09T19:24:28 < bitmask> https://vulkan-tutorial.com/code/20_index_buffer.cpp
2021-09-09T19:27:31 < kakium69> tldr
2021-09-09T19:29:10 < bitmask> bastard
2021-09-09T19:29:18 < bitmask> you made me get the link, now read it!
2021-09-09T19:31:03 < kakium69> cannot understand it
2021-09-09T19:31:48 < bitmask> good, you would be a freak if you could
2021-09-09T19:32:52 < kakium69> does it use shaders?
2021-09-09T19:33:07 < kakium69> like modern opengl
2021-09-09T19:33:24 < kakium69> oh yes I found it
2021-09-09T19:34:13 < bitmask> yea
2021-09-09T19:35:41 < bitmask> you can write them in a few diff langs (im using the std glsl) then compile them to some half compiled format
2021-09-09T19:35:59 < bitmask> SPIR-V
2021-09-09T19:37:02 < bitmask> its like java's bytecode or whatever its called
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2021-09-09T19:47:19 < kakium69> why there is such massive boilerplate?
2021-09-09T19:47:32 < kakium69> it's more flexible?
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2021-09-09T19:56:12 < bitmask> yea
2021-09-09T19:57:14 < bitmask> nothing is assumed, and it actually matches how graphics cards work today, opengl had to make assumptions on some things because of how it was setup
2021-09-09T20:02:16 < kakium69> what is the program size?
2021-09-09T20:03:12 < bitmask> probably not accurate since im on mac, vulkan is native on windows and linux but on mac it has to convert to apple's metal 
2021-09-09T20:03:44 < bitmask> metal vulkan and directx12 are apparently all very similar 
2021-09-09T20:06:12 < bitmask> eventually i'll install it on my windows partition and desktop but for dev im using os x
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2021-09-09T20:31:56 < machinehum> I designed in TI buck regulator: 3$, digikey qtd. 1
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2021-09-09T20:32:13 < machinehum> Currently it's 26$, sketchy chinese broker, qtd. 1
2021-09-09T20:32:18 < machinehum> What in the fuck
2021-09-09T20:33:08 < mawk> it's the shortage machinehum 
2021-09-09T20:33:12 < mawk> haven't you heard!
2021-09-09T20:33:14 < mawk> ?*
2021-09-09T20:34:41 < kakium69> what regulator?
2021-09-09T20:37:15 < machinehum> TPS62095RGTR
2021-09-09T20:37:29 < machinehum> Hard time to be a ee
2021-09-09T20:37:47 < machinehum> Back to landing sketchy projects working on someone's blockchain project!
2021-09-09T20:38:14 < machinehum> I should have just bought up a bunch of shit and hustled it out of my place
2021-09-09T20:39:56 < machinehum> Looking at DDR3 ram on Amazon it's cheaper to buy old laptop sticks and just desolder them
2021-09-09T20:40:14 < machinehum> Do you have to do something special with BGA? some reballing bullshit?
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2021-09-09T20:45:32 < machinehum> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVTxHx0z-wo
2021-09-09T20:45:35 < machinehum> Oh
2021-09-09T20:45:45 < machinehum> So if you paste the baord you don't need to reball
2021-09-09T20:46:00 < machinehum> shutup machinehum
2021-09-09T20:46:03 < machinehum> okay
2021-09-09T20:47:17 < qyx> ddr3 what for
2021-09-09T20:47:24 < qyx> stm32mp1?
2021-09-09T20:50:22 < machinehum> Allwinner A33
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2021-09-09T20:50:43 < machinehum> It's starting to look like laptop DDR3 (small sticks) are all 1.35V(LP) and the desktop are 1.5V
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2021-09-09T21:00:30 < qyx> machinehum: ping me when you are done and it works
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2021-09-09T21:05:44 < Steffanx> mouseghost: its time for your not-daily bicycle trip photos - http://imgur.com/a/fPlgQDz
2021-09-09T21:06:11 < mouseghost> cool cool
2021-09-09T21:06:12 < mouseghost> very flat
2021-09-09T21:08:32 < Steffanx> Lol yeah, dont think that will change any time soon
2021-09-09T21:12:11 < kakium69> is it cold?
2021-09-09T21:14:26 < Steffanx> No, its warm.
2021-09-09T21:14:46 < Steffanx> 21-23 °C
2021-09-09T21:14:57 < kakium69> ideal
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2021-09-09T21:22:21 < machinehum> qyx: Works great
2021-09-09T21:22:36 < machinehum> https://github.com/Machine-Hum/wifiwart
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2021-09-09T21:25:10 < Steffanx> DIY bga soldering, machinehum ?
2021-09-09T21:27:13 < machinehum> Yes
2021-09-09T21:27:30 < machinehum> It was actually super simple
2021-09-09T21:27:48 < machinehum> Just smash the paste down, smash all the chips down, oven
2021-09-09T21:28:28 < Steffanx> Proper oven or also DIY?
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2021-09-09T21:38:10 < machinehum> DIY
2021-09-09T21:38:19 < machinehum> Toaster with Arduano reflow controller
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2021-09-09T22:40:19 < kakium69> diy oven can be more proper than 20usd hack from the usual suspects
2021-09-09T22:43:58 < qyx> machinehum: how much current does it draw in idle?
2021-09-09T22:44:25 < machinehum> From the 5V line?
2021-09-09T22:44:40 < machinehum> 300mA
2021-09-09T22:44:54 < qyx> meh too much
2021-09-09T22:44:58 < machinehum> lol
2021-09-09T22:45:10 < qyx> soc+ddr only?
2021-09-09T22:45:21 < machinehum> There's an SD card and two wifi radios
2021-09-09T22:45:27 < machinehum> Let me unplug the radios
2021-09-09T22:45:51 < machinehum> Radio's are hungry
2021-09-09T22:45:58 < machinehum> 200mA w/o
2021-09-09T22:45:59 < qyx> trying to find anything with <0.4 W
2021-09-09T22:46:04 < qyx> hm
2021-09-09T22:46:31 < machinehum> Well hold on that was booting give me a sec
2021-09-09T22:47:02 < qyx> ddr3 is probably the most hungry part
2021-09-09T22:47:36 < machinehum> 97mA
2021-09-09T22:47:50 < machinehum> After it's done booting and whatnot
2021-09-09T22:48:18 < machinehum> However that goes up to about 0.5A when going full burn
2021-09-09T22:49:57 < machinehum> The sunxi community is real good
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2021-09-09T22:51:49 < qyx> 97 mA is quite competitive
2021-09-09T22:52:40 < qyx> maybe if it supports lpddr it can be lower
2021-09-09T22:53:26 < machinehum> It does
2021-09-09T22:53:36 < machinehum> I'm using lpddr3
2021-09-09T22:53:55 < machinehum> I mean if you need super low idle currents why wouldn't you use a supervisor MCU or something?
2021-09-09T22:54:08 < qyx> oh
2021-09-09T22:54:31 < qyx> and could you try rtcwake -m mem -s 10
2021-09-09T22:54:43 < qyx> whats the suspend to ram idle current
2021-09-09T22:54:52 < qyx> and if it wakes up correctly after 10 seconds
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2021-09-09T22:55:13 < qyx> sama5d27 can achieve 13 mA at 3V3
2021-09-09T22:55:46 < qyx> robably even lower currents are possible because that said sma5d27 SoM have ddr3l
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2021-09-09T23:02:25 < machinehum> -sh: rtcwake: not found
2021-09-09T23:02:31 < machinehum> Not installed
2021-09-09T23:03:07 < machinehum> I suppose I could install it
2021-09-09T23:04:24 < machinehum> Is rtcwake part of a bigger package? Nothing when I search for it in buildroot
2021-09-09T23:04:42 < machinehum> rtc-tools perhaps?
2021-09-09T23:04:44 < qyx> if you don't have anything more sane to do
2021-09-09T23:04:52 < qyx> hm idk, probably
2021-09-09T23:05:32 < qyx> util-linux
2021-09-09T23:07:45 < machinehum> busybox
2021-09-09T23:12:34 < machinehum> qyx: Trying this just for you, in the hopes you one day might buy my product and provide me with my TPS62095RGTR
2021-09-09T23:15:10 < machinehum> # rtcwake -m mem -s 10
2021-09-09T23:15:13 < machinehum> rtcwake: /dev/rtc0 not enabled for wakeup events
2021-09-09T23:15:14 < machinehum> idk
2021-09-09T23:16:15 < qyx> :(
2021-09-09T23:16:26 < qyx> I'll give you a github star!
2021-09-09T23:16:41 < qyx> but thank you very much, now I know A33 + LPDDR3 setup is feasible
2021-09-09T23:18:01 < machinehum> Yeah the routing for the chip is nice as well, 4 layer baord no problem
2021-09-09T23:24:51 < qyx> maybe I'll finish my stm32mp1 soon
2021-09-09T23:25:10 < qyx> I don't even know whats the current state of the project
2021-09-09T23:25:19 < machinehum> Did ST make a PMIC to power the MP1?
2021-09-09T23:25:32 < machinehum> There was this Chinese was to power the A33 but it looked sketchy as all hel
2021-09-09T23:25:34 < machinehum> hell
2021-09-09T23:26:00 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gVdtA/Screenshot_2021-09-09_22-25-42.png
2021-09-09T23:26:12 < qyx> yes there is a STPMIC1 IC
2021-09-09T23:28:05 < machinehum> Nice
2021-09-09T23:28:08 < machinehum> PCIe card?
2021-09-09T23:28:27 < karlp> no, abuse of pcie as cheap connectors
2021-09-09T23:29:26 < machinehum> https://media.dayoftheshirt.com/images/shirts/rJiDD/redbubble_mike-bubbles-smith-decent-redbubble_1607562686.large.png
2021-09-09T23:31:12 < qyx> ● ● Support H.264 HP video encoding up to 1920x1080@60fps
2021-09-09T23:31:15 < qyx> hey hey hey!
2021-09-09T23:31:46 < qyx> single parallel CSI input only but better than nothing
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2021-09-09T23:55:41 < qyx> wait what
2021-09-09T23:55:46 < qyx> it doesn't support LPDDR3
2021-09-09T23:56:06 < qyx> machinehum: ^
2021-09-09T23:57:14 < qyx> and your AS4C* DRAM is not LPDDR3 either
2021-09-09T23:57:27 < qyx> DDR3L != LPDDR3, they are very different
2021-09-09T23:59:03 < machinehum> oh shit sorry
2021-09-09T23:59:35 < qyx> so maybe the idle consumption can be even lower
2021-09-09T23:59:53 < machinehum> Yeah I got those mixed up
2021-09-09T23:59:54 < machinehum> Whoops
--- Day changed Fri Sep 10 2021
2021-09-10T00:00:08 < qyx> I'll try to finish my board, just a bunch of connectors and minor stuff is missing
2021-09-10T00:00:23 < qyx> I am curious how well MP1* behaves
2021-09-10T00:12:01 < ventyl> qDD q
2021-09-10T00:15:49 < ventyl> wrong row
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2021-09-10T00:25:11 < bitmask> oh boy, first 3d + animation with vulkan, a rotating 2d rectangle in 3d space, now onto texture mapping!
2021-09-10T00:46:47 < ventyl> how many lines of code?
2021-09-10T00:46:51 < ventyl> i am just curious
2021-09-10T00:54:55 < machinehum> qyx: I found it almost impossible to understand power consumption from the datasheet
2021-09-10T00:55:14 < machinehum> Also Allwinner datasheets look like someone farted in a shoe
2021-09-10T00:59:30 < kakium69> price peak of raw materials looks to calm down
2021-09-10T01:07:24 < kakium69> or maybe just iron
2021-09-10T01:08:35 < kakium69> oh wow gold doubled from 2018 to 2020
2021-09-10T01:08:40 < kakium69> nasty
2021-09-10T01:10:19 < kakium69> what is up with aluminum just steady rise
2021-09-10T01:10:55 < qyx> machinehum: why do you use !RST in your schematics?
2021-09-10T01:11:25 < qyx> and !CKE, !WE..
2021-09-10T01:12:41 < kakium69> just use ~RST
2021-09-10T01:13:17 < qyx> yeah
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2021-09-10T01:21:50 < machinehum> qyx: Yeah whoops
2021-09-10T01:22:11 < machinehum> that schematic also sucks
2021-09-10T01:22:15 < machinehum> I don't like it
2021-09-10T01:22:25 < machinehum> All the pages and stuff organised pretty strangely
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2021-09-10T02:21:49 < bitmask> ventyl way too many lines of code, probably around 1200-1400
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2021-09-10T07:07:47 < ColdKeyboard> Lol. On freenode there are like 10 people and I bet 8 of them are bouncers that people forgot to disconnect :)
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2021-09-10T08:45:06 < ventyl> bitmask: uh oh
2021-09-10T08:45:16 < ventyl> bitmask: opengl would be like 200 tops
2021-09-10T08:45:35 < bitmask> i know
2021-09-10T08:45:59 < bitmask> id rather learn the newer tech
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2021-09-10T10:46:43 < steve__> hello
2021-09-10T11:20:28 < Steffanx> Hallo 
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2021-09-10T14:49:46 < tct> hello people
2021-09-10T14:49:48 < tct> is everybody feelin' wonderful?
2021-09-10T14:54:26 < karlp> very
2021-09-10T14:59:29 < tct> so glad to hear that ^.^
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2021-09-10T15:01:45 < karlp> got some chillaxed friday muzaks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zv9PhoTlHY
2021-09-10T15:02:37 < karlp> so..  if you need lipos for real products, where do you get them?  I know in "big scale" you can talk to the vendors directly, panasonic et al, but digikey/mouser straight up won't even ship them.  encryption restrictions be damned.
2021-09-10T15:03:05 < karlp> I can get a limited selection of stuff locally, but say I want 100-1000?
2021-09-10T15:03:23 < tct> hmm, for small quantities usually mouser/rs-components/those
2021-09-10T15:03:31 < tct> they did ship them to switzerland :/
2021-09-10T15:04:01 < tct> karlp, aliexpress but not sure if that fits your supply chain
2021-09-10T15:04:21 < tct> karlp, I had a project which needed 6k lipos and I got them from a "reputable chinese manufacturer" worked out well.
2021-09-10T15:04:35 < tct> they told me that they do >10 pieces
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2021-09-10T15:05:32 < karlp> tct: yeah, they flat out say no shipping for us.
2021-09-10T15:05:42 < tct> ufff
2021-09-10T15:05:48 < tct> then I won be of any help, sry.
2021-09-10T15:05:56 < karlp> that's alright, I know I live on an island.
2021-09-10T15:06:18 < tct> that shouldn't be a factor - is this due to some import of "explosive" goods or smth?
2021-09-10T15:06:21 < karlp> nkon has said inthe past that they can do it, but the start costs are like $500 or so.
2021-09-10T15:06:29 < karlp> yeah, the whole "no lipos in the air freight" issue.
2021-09-10T15:06:44 < tct> but you guys get ships too, right?
2021-09-10T15:06:56 < karlp> apparently no-one can deal with that...
2021-09-10T15:07:02 < karlp> but yes, of course it _should_ work...
2021-09-10T15:07:11 < tct> what capacity per piece? I thought air shipping allows for 100Wh per package or something
2021-09-10T15:07:30 < karlp> but apparently that's "sea freight... 3 months, maybe you get your package, maybe not" not "ground, 3 day"
2021-09-10T15:07:36 < karlp> 10-40mAh.
2021-09-10T15:07:50 < karlp> tct: from experience, telling a vendor the rules doens't really make them change their mind much :)
2021-09-10T15:07:58 < tct> what do you/they mean with "maybe you get your package"? just because it's shipped by ship shouldn't affect the reliability of the delivery services? :D
2021-09-10T15:08:07 < karlp> have you shipped by sea much? :)
2021-09-10T15:08:10 < tct> karlp, alright :(
2021-09-10T15:08:19 < tct> karlp, I am surrounded by non-sea so nope :D
2021-09-10T15:08:41 < tct> karlp, I had the idea that ships are just a form of transportation. the logistics/organization shouldn't be different from trains, trucks & planes?
2021-09-10T15:08:51 < karlp> one would think.
2021-09-10T15:08:56 < karlp> and of course it should be.
2021-09-10T15:09:02 < karlp> they still seem to lose a lot more.
2021-09-10T15:09:11 < tct> ufff
2021-09-10T15:09:16 < tct> well I have nothing valuable to say then, sry :(
2021-09-10T15:10:29 < karlp> that's ok, thanks for the suggestions.
2021-09-10T15:11:49 < tct> just curious: Do they differentiate whether they ship to an individual or a business enitity?
2021-09-10T15:12:43 < karlp> oh, if we went down this path, we'd probably line up euro ground shipping to a port and have an icelandic freigth company pick it up, but, trying to avoid going that far really.
2021-09-10T15:12:51 < karlp> we don't want to manufacture here anyway.
2021-09-10T15:14:46 < tct> I see
2021-09-10T15:18:41 < englishman> karlp: the reason you can’t buy grey market batteries legitimately is the mfgs don’t want to sell cells. Too much risk. Talk to a battery pack manufacturer, they will sell you a safe pack and the UN cert to go with it
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2021-09-10T15:19:41 < englishman> Yes like tectu said. A reputable, and probably Chinese manufacturer
2021-09-10T15:23:04 < karlp> digikey == grey market for you?
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2021-09-10T15:23:37 < tct> karlp, if you like I can quickly hit one of the chinese sellers I used in the past and ask them whether they ship to weird places?
2021-09-10T15:24:22 < englishman> digikey doesn't even sell cell lithium-metal batteries to canucks
2021-09-10T15:24:27 < englishman> they dont even sell nimhs iirc
2021-09-10T15:24:48 < karlp> englishman: yeah, digikey sells tthem to us only according to them.
2021-09-10T15:25:00 < karlp> tct: sure, no committment though.
2021-09-10T15:25:06 < englishman> remember that as of jan 1 of this year you are required to furnish the un cert to all downstream supply chain people
2021-09-10T15:25:09 < karlp> s/us/USA/
2021-09-10T15:25:12 < tct> karlp, sure, can you provide me with the details?
2021-09-10T15:26:48 < karlp> tct: something similar to https://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/products/pt/coin_rechargeable_lithium/models/VL2020
2021-09-10T15:27:17 < tct> oh, coin cells. not sure if they do those. I'll ask tho.
2021-09-10T15:27:42 < karlp> englishman: yeah, I'm still really hoping we can get by with supercaps, just to avoid all this shit
2021-09-10T15:28:02 < karlp> in other news, isn't this like what ... mitrax? was working on https://plumspace.com/products/smart-sfp/5g-4g-usb-router/
2021-09-10T15:28:52 < tct> karlp, I take it that it has to be coin cell format? pouch won't work?
2021-09-10T15:29:58 < zyp> karlp, my DHL agreement has a $100 surcharge for shipments containing loose lithium cells
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2021-09-10T15:31:09 < karlp> tct: nah, pouch would be fine too really.
2021-09-10T15:31:33 < tct> karlp, talking to them now - can you provide technical specs pls? If they go with it I can forward contact information if you like.
2021-09-10T15:31:34 < karlp> zyp: that's a lot lower than nkon reckons for us here, but soudns reasonable
2021-09-10T15:31:51 < karlp> nah, don't go any futher than "do you ship to iceland at all?" 
2021-09-10T15:32:07 < karlp> like I said, i'm still trying to get power consumption to a point where supercaps alone are viable
2021-09-10T15:32:51 < zyp> karlp, it's 13200 ISK: https://mydhl.express.dhl/is/en/ship/surcharges.html
2021-09-10T15:33:29 < tct> karlp, > yeah,we have 401020 3.7V 40mah
2021-09-10T15:33:38 < karlp> yeah, that kinda falls into the "telling the vendor the rules" :)
2021-09-10T15:33:59 < karlp> if they won't ship it, it doesn't matter if dhl says they will for a fee..
2021-09-10T15:34:02 < karlp> but good to know
2021-09-10T15:34:10 < karlp> we can probably jsut say "use our dhl account instead"
2021-09-10T15:34:16 < zyp> exactly
2021-09-10T15:34:39 < zyp> or order for pickup and schedule your own dhl pickup from them :)
2021-09-10T15:35:23 < zyp> so far I've used my dhl account more for receiving than sending, it's surprisingly convenient
2021-09-10T15:35:26 < tct> karlp, they don't do coin cells, but they have  4.2*10.5*23.5mm(T*W*L)  pouch-style. They are currently checking whether they can ship to Iceland
2021-09-10T15:37:55 < englishman> it's not too much shit all in all
2021-09-10T15:38:00 < englishman> doesnt even compare to CE testing
2021-09-10T15:38:06 < englishman> just a couple extra documents
2021-09-10T15:38:57 < englishman> talking to a battery integrator also got us a better product at a great price, and a single item to order when it comes time to get a batch, shit is tested and comes with the correct custom cable etc
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2021-09-10T16:19:39 < karlp> CE testing, where you just scribble on a piece of paper that you promise you comply right? ;)
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2021-09-10T16:28:30 < Steffanx> Except that you do actual tests 
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2021-09-10T16:29:35 < karlp> yes, _we_ do,
2021-09-10T16:29:42 < karlp> butthere's not any  requirement that you do so...
2021-09-10T16:29:51 < karlp> Shippers or freight forwarders should not try to split a consignment across multiple air
2021-09-10T16:29:53 < karlp> waybills to try to avoid the application of the lithium battery mark where there are more than
2021-09-10T16:29:55 < karlp> two packages with lithium batteries contained in equipment under Section II in a consignment.
2021-09-10T16:31:41 < karlp> I like how they specify a 100x100m marking..
2021-09-10T16:37:55 < karlp> heh, I love these new energy ratings,
2021-09-10T16:38:03 < karlp> good to see not everything being a+++ again.
2021-09-10T16:38:23 < karlp> still, not awesome seeing every single fridge in the size I'm looking at be rated, "F" :)
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2021-09-10T17:19:04 < ehsanecc> Hi, is this possible to use unused flash space to store files? I want to format unused space with FatFs and write some files there. I need to write a driver to accessing flash for FatFs library, but i don't know how to access flash content!! :| any document/link? thanks in advance
2021-09-10T17:20:00 < ehsanecc> I'm using EWIAR as compiler
2021-09-10T17:22:23 < karlp> no idea with iar, but this is just linker sections
2021-09-10T17:22:32 < karlp> scatter files I think keil calls them at least, not sure on iar?
2021-09-10T17:23:20 < c10ud> create a fatfs image with your desktop pc, link it to your executable with the external objects function of iar, get the address at runtime and point your fatfs library at it
2021-09-10T17:25:08 < c10ud> "raw binary image", that is
2021-09-10T17:26:10 < c10ud> btw, i hope you want a readonly fs 
2021-09-10T17:26:27 < karlp> ssh, dont' spoil the fun :)
2021-09-10T17:28:10 < ehsanecc> thanks, but i don't want a readonly fs. i want this space to be writable, accessible so that i can copy some files from microSD card into it
2021-09-10T17:29:22 < ehsanecc> actually i didn't find anything useful for what i want, searched a lot! maybe i search wrong, i just need to write into that flash memory!
2021-09-10T17:30:03 < ehsanecc> I searched for IAP (In-Application Programming) but nothing useful found, sadly
2021-09-10T17:30:47 < karlp> you can write into flash too, butyou have to decide whether you want a fs or not. (you probably don't)
2021-09-10T17:30:59 < karlp> and you need to observe the page granularity wrt to erases
2021-09-10T17:33:17 < ehsanecc> karlp: my English is not good, if i understand correctly, you mean it's hard or nearly impossible to make a writable fs on flash? idk
2021-09-10T17:36:05 < ehsanecc> I have stm32f103re which has 512KB of flash and my code is about 64KB, so most of flash is there without use and i have some bmp files(which can be changed by user) on a microSD card, AND big problem is microsd's get damaged after about every two weeks!! :)) i really don't know what to do so i thought maybe copying some of most used images (like fonts) into flash could help!
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2021-09-10T17:37:49 < ehsanecc> actually my employer asked me to do this as a solution, and i don't like to tell him i don't know how to do it hehe, so struggling to find a way, seems there is no!
2021-09-10T17:39:01 < ehsanecc> so, the problem is something else, and a possible solution here is another problem for me. :/ damn
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2021-09-10T17:42:31 < ehsanecc> karlp: i didn't understand this part: "observe the page granularity wrt to erases"
2021-09-10T17:46:54 < Steffanx> Wouldnt your boss want to know why the sd card gets corrupted before you start to work on something that might not even fix it?
2021-09-10T17:59:16 < ehsanecc> we don't know, i designed it 6 years ago. i checked voltages, 3.3v. pull-up resistors are 47K. have no idea!
2021-09-10T17:59:45 < ehsanecc> but in some products that image refresh delay is more, we don't have much sd damages
2021-09-10T18:00:20 < ehsanecc> seems like, less we use sd card, less it get  damaged
2021-09-10T18:01:39 < jpa-> ehsanecc: does the card power supply get turned off when operation is in progress?
2021-09-10T18:07:35 < ehsanecc> jpa-: no, not very much. actually it's an elevator board to show floors
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2021-09-10T18:08:36 < ehsanecc> jpa-: no, not very much. actually it's an elevator board to show floors. maybe if any power failure in building happens.
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2021-09-10T18:09:11 < ehsanecc> but it's not just for one customer, until now about 300 sd's damaged without any clear reason!
2021-09-10T18:09:21 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: so have you tried taking out a "corrupted" SD card and reading it all with a cardreader on a regular computer to check how exactly the corruption looks like?
2021-09-10T18:09:51 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: probably it's just a problem with your fatfs implementation or something like that.
2021-09-10T18:09:53 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: yes i did and i have 11 of them, first of all reading get very very slow
2021-09-10T18:09:56 < ehsanecc> then damage occurs
2021-09-10T18:10:03 < ehsanecc> and read not possible
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2021-09-10T18:10:57 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: if cardread can't read the card it means the card is not suitable at all. Probably just super shitty cards. Or probably your hardware damages them by inappropriate voltage pulses or something like that.
2021-09-10T18:11:01 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: no i don't think it's a fatfs problem because a simple format should fix it but it not
2021-09-10T18:11:13 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: chances are you bought junk cards
2021-09-10T18:12:32 < jpa-> ehsanecc: so they are mostly just read out but not written very often?
2021-09-10T18:12:49 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: I don't buy cards, my emplyer does and he says he buy good quality card for some of customers that have very problem because of his reputation in market!
2021-09-10T18:12:57 < jpa-> if cards break by just reading & using, yeah, seems you have bad quality cards or run them way too hot
2021-09-10T18:13:20 < jpa-> so you have yourself seen broken cards from multiple brands?
2021-09-10T18:13:49 < ehsanecc> just reads, but PaulFertser say a good point about spikes, could it be? because i directly connect stm32 to sd
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2021-09-10T18:14:03 < ehsanecc> jpa-: yes, multiple chinese brands! :)
2021-09-10T18:14:24 < jpa-> reads slowing down, but still working does not sound like voltage spike damage
2021-09-10T18:14:59 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: by spikes I meant something exceeding the max allowed voltage momentarily due to bad power supplies or something like that. And you say powerful motors might be around
2021-09-10T18:15:28 < ehsanecc> i was thinking about control vdd of sd so i can shut it down when i don't need it so it could last longer!
2021-09-10T18:15:38 < PaulFertser> Yes, reads slowing down sounds like trash firmware on card or super bad quality nand in the first place.
2021-09-10T18:15:43 < ehsanecc> but changing hardware is not an option here, we have 400 devices
2021-09-10T18:15:56 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: 400 devices is nothing if the card is removable without soldering.
2021-09-10T18:16:11 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: no not powerful motors, board is in cabin
2021-09-10T18:16:33 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: expecting any reliability from random SD cards from China is just a very wrong decision in the first place.
2021-09-10T18:17:27 < PaulFertser> And you can't do anything reasonable with black boxes full of shit.
2021-09-10T18:19:05 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: well, It's Iran's market full of chinese low quality stuff. we could import high quality ones but i think the overall price will go higher than what customer expects!
2021-09-10T18:19:11 < jpa-> ehsanecc: do you know what ambient temperature the device operates in? have you measured it?
2021-09-10T18:19:29 < jpa-> flash degrades much faster in high temperatures
2021-09-10T18:19:58 < ehsanecc> jpa-: it's less than 40 celsius
2021-09-10T18:20:30 < ehsanecc> jpa-: i didn'e measure but i know most of customers are in tehran which in worst case 40 celsius
2021-09-10T18:20:51 < jpa-> you mean the outside temperature is 40 celsius, but is that the temperature where the device is?
2021-09-10T18:21:12 < jpa-> install it with a power supply in a sealed box and you easily get 80°C
2021-09-10T18:21:27 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: then you need to redisign it to not ever use SD cards at all. If integrated flash is big enough, use that, if not, add some external flash. How much do you really need? 16 MiB SPI NOR chip costs about two bucks.
2021-09-10T18:21:54 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: and yes, what jpa- says
2021-09-10T18:23:49 < ehsanecc> jpa-: have to check it, make a test version to see temperature changes. thanks
2021-09-10T18:24:06 < jpa-> one guess would be if the elevator causes vibrations that cause intermitten contact in the microsd socket (of course crappiest cheapest model?), that causes power fluctuations - but it would affect mostly during writes, not reads
2021-09-10T18:24:16 < karlp> it's inside an elevator with a screen, I bet it getsnice and warm.
2021-09-10T18:24:24 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: yes, actually using sd cards was a bad idea in first place. did not expect these problems
2021-09-10T18:24:26 < jpa-> i do know that many cheap sd cards fail like that if power is cut while writing, but i haven't heard it happening if you only read from them
2021-09-10T18:25:31 < jpa-> if you can fit all stuff in internal flash, that is a simple solution; but if you can't, putting just part of it there seems pretty useless
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2021-09-10T18:28:10 < ehsanecc> jpa-: no, not all files could fit into flash, pictures can't! just fonts. good point.
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2021-09-10T18:34:00 < PaulFertser> https://aliexpress.com/item/32639023490.html $1 per chip actually.
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2021-09-10T19:16:06 < mawk> the intern I supervise saw my irc nick
2021-09-10T19:16:10 < mawk> I hope he's not in this channel
2021-09-10T19:16:13 < mawk> are you my intern mouseghost ???
2021-09-10T19:16:37 < mouseghost> mawk, no no, i dont think so
2021-09-10T19:16:41 < mouseghost> how much do you pay him?
2021-09-10T19:16:46 < mawk> 400€/month I think
2021-09-10T19:17:00 < mouseghost> then im not
2021-09-10T19:17:45 < jpa-> mawk: lul, seriously?
2021-09-10T19:17:55 < jpa-> i didn't know dutchers were so cheap
2021-09-10T19:18:00 < mawk> karlp: we buy the batteries there: https://www.tadiranbat.com/
2021-09-10T19:18:09 < mawk> I don't know jpa- , that's the rate in france but I assume it's the same here
2021-09-10T19:18:25 < mawk> karlp: in bulk
2021-09-10T19:18:37 < jpa-> here a typical pay for intern in technical work would be 1500€/month
2021-09-10T19:19:17 < mouseghost> here the typical pay for intern is either 0 or -
2021-09-10T19:19:27 < mouseghost> jpa-, where you from
2021-09-10T19:19:37 < jpa-> finland
2021-09-10T19:19:50 < mouseghost> OOO VODKA PERKELE
2021-09-10T19:19:50 < jpa-> do you then hire useless interns or just cheat them out on pay?
2021-09-10T19:19:58 < mouseghost> i dont know
2021-09-10T19:20:01 < mouseghost> probably the former
2021-09-10T19:20:14 < mouseghost> people do seem useless as fuck here
2021-09-10T19:20:42 < mouseghost> and still they tell me i need to go do junior job -.-
2021-09-10T19:20:51 < mouseghost> jpa-, hows junior pay
2021-09-10T19:21:05 < mouseghost> a question for mawk as well
2021-09-10T19:21:26 < mawk> just use this small battery karlp : https://www.tadiranbat.com/assets/tlp-94181-d-mo1.pdf
2021-09-10T19:21:33 < mawk> perfect for any portable application
2021-09-10T19:21:44 < mawk> 800Ah
2021-09-10T19:22:50 < mouseghost> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/782335653441830943/885794358543122442/8642a38caf85e6122e769cf68eac3f31.jpg
2021-09-10T19:24:14 < mawk> my junior pay is 2300€/month
2021-09-10T19:24:27 < mawk> net of revenue tax 
2021-09-10T19:25:24 < jpa-> mouseghost: depends mostly on education background
2021-09-10T19:25:43 < mouseghost> just high school, jpa-
2021-09-10T19:26:56 < jpa-> then depends on if you have something else to show that you know what you are doing, and it is pretty random whether the hiring staff are able to evaluate such
2021-09-10T19:27:26 < mouseghost> i-i have my projects..
2021-09-10T19:27:33 < jpa-> it can work
2021-09-10T19:27:35 < mouseghost> mawk, ngl 2300 eur sound nice
2021-09-10T19:27:50 < mouseghost> could pay rent with that
2021-09-10T19:27:52 < mouseghost> get some food
2021-09-10T19:27:52 < jpa-> but the work market in finland is very much education/graduation based
2021-09-10T19:27:56 < mouseghost> i see
2021-09-10T19:28:22 < mouseghost> well, i was just thinking about how i would live if i had gone to NL to study
2021-09-10T19:28:44 < jpa-> without a degree in some technical area, one can easily get stuck with intern-level wages for a few years before the amount of work experience starts to speak for itself
2021-09-10T19:28:58 < mouseghost> i see... though thats pretty dumb imo...
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2021-09-10T19:29:13 < mouseghost> i want to study something thats not related to CS tho
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2021-09-10T21:05:58 < Steffanx> Art, mouseghost?
2021-09-10T21:06:09 < mouseghost> Steffanx, aerospace engineering
2021-09-10T21:06:14 < Steffanx> ah fancy
2021-09-10T21:06:39 < mouseghost> though im anxious about it a bit
2021-09-10T21:06:56 < Steffanx> Why
2021-09-10T21:07:04 < mouseghost> what if i dont get admitted?
2021-09-10T21:07:10 < mouseghost> what if i wont be able to pay for it?
2021-09-10T21:07:14 < mouseghost> what if ill fail?
2021-09-10T21:07:20 < Steffanx> 1. find sometihng else.
2021-09-10T21:07:28 < Steffanx> 2. idk
2021-09-10T21:07:33 < Steffanx> 3. then at least you tried
2021-09-10T21:07:50 < Steffanx> Where will you study?
2021-09-10T21:07:53 < Steffanx> or want to
2021-09-10T21:07:57 < mouseghost> i want to go to tu delft, Steffanx
2021-09-10T21:08:50 < Steffanx> sometimes you can get some studying abroad scholarship
2021-09-10T21:09:03 < mouseghost> ye sometimes
2021-09-10T21:09:09 < mouseghost> though tbh im not sure how this works etc
2021-09-10T21:09:26 < Steffanx> and you can live with mawk. He will finally kick out his ex-gf
2021-09-10T21:09:45 < mouseghost> mawk, what city are you in?
2021-09-10T21:09:56 < mouseghost> Steffanx, thatd have to be fun! :D
2021-09-10T21:10:03 < mouseghost> i wonder how mawk looks
2021-09-10T21:10:45 < Steffanx> French
2021-09-10T21:11:22 < mouseghost> french the city?
2021-09-10T21:11:23 < mouseghost> wheres that
2021-09-10T21:11:29 < Steffanx> no, he looks french
2021-09-10T21:11:52 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-10T21:12:01 < mouseghost> french kiss? french love?
2021-09-10T21:12:05 < Steffanx> Real baguette croissant
2021-09-10T21:13:00 < mouseghost> penis descriptors lol
2021-09-10T21:13:08 < Steffanx> Just contact the TU Delft and ask when they can do for you. And there must be some people in poland to help you.
2021-09-10T21:13:30 < mouseghost> do you think theyd answer me?
2021-09-10T21:13:38 < mouseghost> i could ask for how the admit people...
2021-09-10T21:14:02 < Steffanx> Just be aware housing in dutchland isnt cheap. And finding one is hard as well.
2021-09-10T21:14:13 < Steffanx> But maybe the TU delft does help you with that
2021-09-10T21:14:59 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: btw, the German universities have plenty of English programs and they teach for free.
2021-09-10T21:15:27 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, yeah, but im not sure how much of them allow me to study without any kind of german language cert
2021-09-10T21:15:39 < Steffanx> if the course is in english, why not
2021-09-10T21:15:44 < Steffanx> courses are
2021-09-10T21:16:22 < Steffanx> And just ask mouseghost.
2021-09-10T21:18:18 < Steffanx> lol mouseghost. i was going to ask someone who i thought studied there, but all he says is: Dont go to TU Delft, they suck. Toxic enviornment, you really dont want to go there.
2021-09-10T21:18:45 < Steffanx> "They should nuke them out of orbit".
2021-09-10T21:21:04 < mouseghost> :_:
2021-09-10T21:21:36 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i think on TUM theres english course but they still require german c1
2021-09-10T21:21:49 < Steffanx> So go learn some german
2021-09-10T21:21:49 < mouseghost> on the basis that they can do some things in german
2021-09-10T21:21:55 < mouseghost> german is hard tho
2021-09-10T21:22:03 < mouseghost> no way im going to go to c1 in a few months
2021-09-10T21:22:34 < Steffanx> ich bin Mausgeist. ich bin 18 Jahre alt.
2021-09-10T21:22:39 < Steffanx> done.
2021-09-10T21:22:51 < mouseghost> :W:
2021-09-10T21:23:01 < mouseghost> fast 18
2021-09-10T21:25:34 < mouseghost> Steffanx, what does he mean "toxic"
2021-09-10T21:25:57 < PaulFertser> Gloomy people are trying hard to upset you by sharing pessimism.
2021-09-10T21:26:04 < PaulFertser> Imagine russia. That.
2021-09-10T21:26:09 < Steffanx> Anyway, ask mawk. He must know some people that studied there.
2021-09-10T21:27:17 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, maybe at least they wont ignore me like people at my current school, at least?
2021-09-10T21:27:20 < mouseghost> mawk, tell me about tu delft
2021-09-10T21:28:03 < Steffanx> Youre not calling me "gloomy" are you mr PaulFertser?
2021-09-10T21:28:42 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: being bright might be challenging at any institution; guess you need to grow some skin and to find a place with at least some amount of people who share your passion, even if they are few.
2021-09-10T21:28:48 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: are you russian?
2021-09-10T21:28:58 < mouseghost> yeah i thought so
2021-09-10T21:29:10 < mouseghost> also i bet the faculty is focused on doing rankings or something as well?
2021-09-10T21:29:14 < Steffanx> Da da, cyka blyat. pizda. Am i now?
2021-09-10T21:29:15 < mouseghost> or is this only a high school thing?
2021-09-10T21:29:25 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: ok, you confirmed gloomy
2021-09-10T21:30:02 < Steffanx> How often in your life have you used those words, PaulFertser?
2021-09-10T21:30:37 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: few times a week on average
2021-09-10T21:30:42 < Steffanx> lol
2021-09-10T21:30:43 < Steffanx> i knew it.
2021-09-10T21:31:04 < Steffanx> Youre a russian after all
2021-09-10T21:31:19 < mouseghost> paul fernster
2021-09-10T21:31:56 < mouseghost> maybe your friend is thin skinned homosexual
2021-09-10T21:33:14 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: want to see my friend? He's not homosexual though to the best of my knowledge, wife and two children.
2021-09-10T21:33:24 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, sure
2021-09-10T21:34:27 < PaulFertser> https://yewtu.be/channel/UC9-XgavTlcAfajtWZCbncNA
2021-09-10T21:34:43 < Steffanx> not even jewtu.be
2021-09-10T21:34:50 < PaulFertser> Tune your gay radars gentlemen
2021-09-10T21:35:09 < mouseghost> so he reviewing russian trucks?
2021-09-10T21:35:23 < Steffanx> oh jewtu.be is russian for sure.
2021-09-10T21:36:50 < Steffanx> serious yewtuber, PaulFertser
2021-09-10T21:37:05 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: it's just an invidious instance, same youtube content
2021-09-10T21:37:37 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: he's mostly blogging about his stupid uaz and some aftermarket parts he designs and sells for it.
2021-09-10T21:40:57 < mouseghost> ah
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2021-09-10T21:44:47 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: btw, that sounded like you're kinda attacking me, why?
2021-09-10T21:45:02 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, where?
2021-09-10T21:45:11 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: asking about my friend
2021-09-10T21:45:27 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, ah i meant Steffanx's friend
2021-09-10T21:45:41 < mouseghost> jokingly 
2021-09-10T21:45:50 < mouseghost> due to the mention of that toxic env.
2021-09-10T21:46:10 < mouseghost> i have autistic time recently
2021-09-10T21:46:15 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: ah, I get it now. Good thing I'm not easily offended especially on IRC.
2021-09-10T21:46:23 < mouseghost> good :P
2021-09-10T21:46:41 < mouseghost> https://youtu.be/xrYL07hPw4w
2021-09-10T21:47:22 < mouseghost> whereas, im easily intimidated
2021-09-10T21:47:48 -!- emeb_mac [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-10T21:51:16 < englishman> mouseghost: I didn’t go to university until I had worked a bit and travelled enough that I was serious enough to actually make an effort at it. Going to school at 18 just would not have worked for me. I’m glad I waited. It’s not like I wasted my time working at Burger King and doing drugs though. You can always consider taking a year sabbatical and coming back to school a year later lemon
2021-09-10T21:51:16 < englishman> fresh and newly motivated.
2021-09-10T21:51:55 < mouseghost> i knooow
2021-09-10T21:52:10 < mouseghost> but im kinda scared that i will lose that motivation totally
2021-09-10T21:52:26 < englishman> then maybe you never had it.
2021-09-10T21:52:26 < Steffanx> Just go work full time and you will want to go to uni :P
2021-09-10T21:52:31 < mouseghost> i mean, rn i dont really have any motivation...
2021-09-10T21:52:36 < mouseghost> pf :D
2021-09-10T21:53:05 < englishman> or start some dumb buttcoin and steal peoples money then buy a cruise ship.
2021-09-10T21:53:08 < Steffanx> Time to talk to some expert then mouseghost?
2021-09-10T21:53:09 < mouseghost> well, its not totally bad idea, considering that i can also make some money to pay for the shit
2021-09-10T21:53:16 < mouseghost> expert? Steffanx
2021-09-10T21:53:30 < mouseghost> i mean, i am taking meds and it really helps imo
2021-09-10T21:54:09 < Steffanx> ah you already do that
2021-09-10T21:54:16 < mouseghost> yep
2021-09-10T21:54:29 < mouseghost> ive had a really bad period a year ago or so
2021-09-10T21:54:41 < mouseghost> and that made me go there
2021-09-10T21:55:48 < Steffanx> I dont think IRC is a great antidepressant :P
2021-09-10T21:57:04 < mouseghost> it actually isnt that bad; but i didnt mean that
2021-09-10T21:57:10 < mouseghost> im on irc for quite some time now :V
2021-09-10T21:57:18 < mouseghost> a few years..
2021-09-10T21:57:38 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i havent been banned on irc, people dont tell me to go fuck myself, people are nice etc
2021-09-10T21:57:47 < mouseghost> same goes for like 8ch or something
2021-09-10T21:58:01 < mouseghost> places obscure enough for people with friends not to bother with 
2021-09-10T21:58:34 < mouseghost> because like, on furry telegram groups, there are groups of friends already (and that beats the point imo, but here its virtually inexistent)
2021-09-10T21:58:43 < mouseghost> im not sure if that makes sense
2021-09-10T21:59:12 < Steffanx> ##stm32 telegram is best.
2021-09-10T21:59:31 < mouseghost> yeah well im banned there actually i think
2021-09-10T21:59:32 < Steffanx> oh, its ##gd32 now
2021-09-10T21:59:35 < Steffanx> lol really
2021-09-10T21:59:44 < mouseghost> whats the handle to there?
2021-09-10T21:59:51 < mouseghost> or like, can u give me an invite? i bet im banned lol
2021-09-10T22:00:44 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: taking some SSRI?
2021-09-10T22:00:49 < mouseghost> yep
2021-09-10T22:00:57 < mouseghost> and actually antischizo too
2021-09-10T22:01:32 < PaulFertser> I wonder if I should start too, but that would mean no alcohol at all, so no beer even once a month.
2021-09-10T22:01:41 < mouseghost> oh really?
2021-09-10T22:01:44 < mouseghost> i drink without problems lol
2021-09-10T22:01:50 < mouseghost> maybe it depends on the type of ssri
2021-09-10T22:01:53 < PaulFertser> "without problems"
2021-09-10T22:01:55 < mouseghost> or maybe i shouldnt.. hm
2021-09-10T22:02:02 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, what kind of problems would there be?
2021-09-10T22:02:11 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: idk, but the manual clearly says not to
2021-09-10T22:02:14 < mouseghost> whos stm32 telegram admin?
2021-09-10T22:02:19 < mouseghost> i must check mine
2021-09-10T22:03:10 -!- wwilly [~wwilly@fw-tnat-cam7.arm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-09-10T22:03:43 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-09-10T22:03:52 < mawk> the government sent me free antigen tests
2021-09-10T22:03:54 < mawk> 2 of them
2021-09-10T22:04:11 < mawk> which ssri mouseghost 
2021-09-10T22:04:28 < mawk> I'm not aware of any deadly interaction between ssris and alcohol anyway
2021-09-10T22:04:39 < mawk> ssri and ecstasy/amphetamine is much more dangerous
2021-09-10T22:04:39 < mouseghost> "You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with sertraline. Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of sertraline such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment."
2021-09-10T22:04:43 < mouseghost> eh idk normal alcohol for me
2021-09-10T22:04:45 < PaulFertser> Deadly no.
2021-09-10T22:04:47 < mouseghost> mawk, sertraline
2021-09-10T22:04:57 < mawk> yeah that's just regular bs they say
2021-09-10T22:05:00 < mawk> there's no real interaction
2021-09-10T22:05:09 < mouseghost> yeha i havent noticed anything
2021-09-10T22:05:22 < mawk> alcohol and anti-anxiety is deadly too
2021-09-10T22:05:29 < mawk> like xanax/valium/etc
2021-09-10T22:05:52 < mawk> ssri is still kinda shitty though
2021-09-10T22:05:57 < mouseghost> xanax is amphetamine, isnt it
2021-09-10T22:06:00 < mawk> like shift in personality, suicide ideation
2021-09-10T22:06:02 < mawk> no it's not
2021-09-10T22:06:05 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-10T22:06:07 < mawk> xanax is like alcohol
2021-09-10T22:06:09 < mawk> it's a downer
2021-09-10T22:06:14 < mouseghost> i mean, it isnt a panaceum
2021-09-10T22:06:16 < mouseghost> but works for me
2021-09-10T22:06:17 < mawk> so downer + downer = death
2021-09-10T22:06:25 < mouseghost> though granted, i take it with another med
2021-09-10T22:06:35 < mawk> the issue about the ssri side effect is that they're permanent
2021-09-10T22:06:42 < mawk> people that are fucked up stay like that for life
2021-09-10T22:06:50 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-10T22:07:17 < mouseghost> i mean, what else would there be...
2021-09-10T22:07:25 < mouseghost> also, beats suicide, doesnt it...
2021-09-10T22:07:31 < mawk> temporary side effect
2021-09-10T22:07:36 < mawk> that stops when you stop the med
2021-09-10T22:07:49 < mawk> that's what else it could be; but not the case here for the personality shift
2021-09-10T22:07:54 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T22:07:59 < mouseghost> what kind of personality shift tho
2021-09-10T22:08:15 < mawk> people become short-tempered, violent, reckless, hypomaniac, etc
2021-09-10T22:08:24 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-10T22:08:26 < mawk> there are plenty articles about that online if you look, especially about prozac
2021-09-10T22:08:40 < mouseghost> ah prozac is that shitty one
2021-09-10T22:08:48 < mouseghost> i had fluoxetine for a moment
2021-09-10T22:08:50 < mouseghost> but it was shitty
2021-09-10T22:08:50 < mawk> also suicide ideation doesn't really beat suicide lol
2021-09-10T22:08:54 < mawk> it ends in suicide
2021-09-10T22:08:55 < mouseghost> huff
2021-09-10T22:09:02 < mouseghost> fuck depression mkay
2021-09-10T22:09:03 < mawk> and it's not like "I'm sad I want to die"
2021-09-10T22:09:26 < mouseghost> then like what is it mawk
2021-09-10T22:09:27 < mawk> it's like your brain is so fucked that you're having irresistible need to kill yourself and you don't know why, and you just do it
2021-09-10T22:09:34 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-10T22:09:40 < mouseghost> fun
2021-09-10T22:09:44 < mouseghost> had thoughts like that i think
2021-09-10T22:09:46 < mawk> that's the kind of side effect of fluoxetine on some people
2021-09-10T22:10:03 < mouseghost> well thats why im on sertraline
2021-09-10T22:10:28 < mouseghost> and also have another pill
2021-09-10T22:10:32 < mouseghost> that makes me more happier
2021-09-10T22:10:34 < mawk> which one
2021-09-10T22:10:41 < mouseghost> amisulphride
2021-09-10T22:10:42 < mawk> why do you take sertraline at all then
2021-09-10T22:10:45 < mawk> if it doesn't make you happy
2021-09-10T22:10:49 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T22:10:51 < mouseghost> good question
2021-09-10T22:10:56 < mouseghost> i guess it does help a bit
2021-09-10T22:10:57 < mouseghost> but
2021-09-10T22:11:22 < mawk> I take methadone every day for a good reason; when I don't take it I'm horribly sick and I would do anything in my power to start taking it again
2021-09-10T22:11:33 < mouseghost> are you addicted
2021-09-10T22:11:43 < mawk> it's not like I can forget it one day, if I forget to take it I will start to become very sick and remember that I have to take ir
2021-09-10T22:12:14 < mawk> well not really, in a sense sure since I can't stop without heavy side effects
2021-09-10T22:12:22 < mawk> but also it doesn't do anything when you take it
2021-09-10T22:12:26 < mouseghost> why you taking it in the first place?
2021-09-10T22:12:28 < mawk> it's only when you don't take it that it does something
2021-09-10T22:12:34 < mawk> to stop taking heroin
2021-09-10T22:12:40 < mawk> 7 years ago
2021-09-10T22:12:57 < mouseghost> oh
2021-09-10T22:13:01 < mawk> it replaces heroin so you don't feel withdrawal, and at the same time it doesn't get you high
2021-09-10T22:13:09 < mawk> so you just keep taking it everyday and forget about it
2021-09-10T22:13:56 < mouseghost> yeah i see
2021-09-10T22:14:10 < mouseghost> though cant you try to withdraw the methadone as well?
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2021-09-10T22:15:01 < mouseghost> mawk, while u were gone. so what city u in; and any of ur friends went to tu delft?
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2021-09-10T22:27:22 < Steffanx> Mawk, mouseghost wants to live with you.
2021-09-10T22:36:49 < mawk> the answer is in the question mouseghost 
2021-09-10T22:36:51 < mawk> mouseghost: why would I try to withdraw the methadone?
2021-09-10T22:36:53 < mawk> much easier to continue like this
2021-09-10T22:38:57 < Steffanx> Until you forget again and have to buy heroin 
2021-09-10T22:41:29 < mawk> :(
2021-09-10T22:51:19 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@178-55-246-19.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-10T22:56:47 < mouseghost> :_:
2021-09-10T22:56:57 < mawk> what
2021-09-10T22:57:00 < mouseghost> Steffanx, now im kinda scared of mawk
2021-09-10T22:57:03 < mawk> :(
2021-09-10T22:57:04 < mawk> why
2021-09-10T22:57:05 < mouseghost> mawk, where do you work
2021-09-10T22:57:08 < mawk> I'm harmless
2021-09-10T22:57:11 < mouseghost> in it?
2021-09-10T22:57:14 < mawk> in the same city I live in
2021-09-10T22:57:24 < mouseghost> yes but heroin mentions make me thing of druggies 
2021-09-10T22:57:40 < kakium69> he is druggie
2021-09-10T22:57:50 < kakium69> ex-
2021-09-10T22:57:56 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T22:58:01 < kakium69> publicly
2021-09-10T22:58:38 < mawk> heroin is just candy for grown men mouseghost 
2021-09-10T22:58:41 < mawk> nothing to be afraid about
2021-09-10T22:58:55 < mouseghost> mawk, are you handsome
2021-09-10T22:58:59 < mawk> yes
2021-09-10T22:59:03 < mouseghost> mawk, do you work in it?
2021-09-10T22:59:09 < mawk> in what
2021-09-10T22:59:20 < mawk> you mean IT?
2021-09-10T22:59:31 < mawk> why else would I be on ##stm32 stm32ing all day
2021-09-10T23:00:11 < kakium69> mouseghost: he works for uni or something
2021-09-10T23:00:15 < mawk> nooo
2021-09-10T23:00:22 < mawk> I work in a sensors company
2021-09-10T23:00:24 < PaulFertser> You were here when you were pretending to be a PHP developer at work.
2021-09-10T23:00:26 < mawk> doing sensors
2021-09-10T23:00:33 < mawk> PaulFertser :(
2021-09-10T23:00:43 < mouseghost> mawk, what kind of sensorsss
2021-09-10T23:00:44 < mawk> I was pretending to not know PHP, and then they found out anyway
2021-09-10T23:00:50 < mawk> so during a few months I had to do PHP until they hired someone to do it
2021-09-10T23:00:58 < mawk> like radar or ultrasonic or stuff like that mouseghost 
2021-09-10T23:00:58 < PaulFertser> So probably one doesn't really need to work in IT to be here.
2021-09-10T23:01:02 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T23:01:04 < mawk> lol
2021-09-10T23:01:06 < mouseghost> so you program there?
2021-09-10T23:01:11 < mawk> yes
2021-09-10T23:01:17 < PaulFertser> mawk: I'm glad to hear they no longer torture you with that shit
2021-09-10T23:01:17 < mawk> and I tweak hardware sometimes
2021-09-10T23:01:20 < mouseghost> ok so do you make a lot of money?
2021-09-10T23:01:25 < mawk> lol PaulFertser 
2021-09-10T23:01:30 < mawk> you already know how much I make mouseghost 
2021-09-10T23:01:38 < mawk> also it's not a lot, my rent is 1050€
2021-09-10T23:02:55 < kakium69> fukin rent
2021-09-10T23:03:44 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T23:03:47 < mouseghost> little money
2021-09-10T23:04:46 < kakium69> fukin salary
2021-09-10T23:05:09 < kakium69> indeed rent is not that much but neither is salary
2021-09-10T23:08:11 < kakium69> have you considered buying an appartment mawk?
2021-09-10T23:08:53 < kakium69> are those expensives / bubbling in your city?
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2021-09-10T23:11:15 < Steffanx> houses are expensinve in entire dutchland kakium69
2021-09-10T23:12:38 < Steffanx> its crazy
2021-09-10T23:12:59 < kakium69> is it the land that is expensives?
2021-09-10T23:13:08 < Steffanx> the people with money buy them
2021-09-10T23:13:14 < kakium69> ah
2021-09-10T23:13:14 < Steffanx> to rent them out.. for BIG MONEY
2021-09-10T23:13:40 < kakium69> welcome to world of low rates
2021-09-10T23:13:55 < Steffanx> For 1k/month you can get a wonderful nice mortgage for a even more wonderful house.
2021-09-10T23:14:21 < kakium69> that's pretty basic?
2021-09-10T23:14:30 < Steffanx> more than bsic
2021-09-10T23:14:31 < Steffanx> basic
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2021-09-10T23:21:08 < kakium69> I wonder if boomer is behind the bubbling markets
2021-09-10T23:21:14 < kakium69> the boomer*
2021-09-10T23:21:18 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: https://aliexpress.com/item/32639023490.html $1 per chip
2021-09-10T23:21:19 < Steffanx> Partially
2021-09-10T23:22:30 < kakium69> but hey
2021-09-10T23:22:41 < kakium69> it cannot be worse than in china
2021-09-10T23:23:23 < kakium69> average salary for people working in city is like 1400eur/usd or so
2021-09-10T23:23:48 < kakium69> average appartment is like 1million
2021-09-10T23:24:48 < kakium69> until it's demo'ed to build even more expensive appartment complex
2021-09-10T23:28:53 < mouseghost> 1400eur/month? kakium69
2021-09-10T23:30:39 < kakium69> something like that
2021-09-10T23:30:42 < kakium69> in the city
2021-09-10T23:30:47 < kakium69> big city
2021-09-10T23:33:16 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-10T23:35:50 < kakium69> it sounds rather good average
2021-09-10T23:36:13 < kakium69> until you need to buy an appartment
2021-09-10T23:46:35 < kakium69> and you absolutelly need to because your work permit, schools, medical care everything is tied to the fact you have an appartment
2021-09-10T23:46:50 < kakium69> that you own
2021-09-10T23:50:45 < kakium69> that is to control migration inside the country
--- Day changed Sat Sep 11 2021
2021-09-11T00:13:55 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-09-11T00:17:50 < mouseghost> goodnight
2021-09-11T00:20:14 < kakium69> nite
2021-09-11T00:23:06 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
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2021-09-11T00:47:34 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/GMv3lGR
2021-09-11T00:47:38 < machinehum> wtf is going on there
2021-09-11T00:48:22 < machinehum> Its like 2 RF switches setup to change an antenna through several tuning networks
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2021-09-11T10:23:46 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: thanks
2021-09-11T10:31:08 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: so did you have a chance to measure the temperature when device is working?
2021-09-11T10:56:09 < PaulFertser> englishman: saw your linkedin request, not sure when I'm going to log in to that website again (if ever), sorry, will approve if that happens.
2021-09-11T10:56:18 < PaulFertser> Damn, I meant ehsanecc 
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2021-09-11T12:00:58 < Steffanx> PaulFertser: has linked in? Can I endorse your irc skills?
2021-09-11T12:02:54 < PaulFertser> Steffanx: I can't remember if I mentioned that
2021-09-11T12:03:34 < Steffanx> Lol your photo.. sleeping
2021-09-11T12:06:46 < PaulFertser> Job attraction
2021-09-11T12:13:23 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: yeay, accept it when you ready :D 
2021-09-11T12:14:17 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: no, not yet
2021-09-11T12:15:37 < PaulFertser> ehsanecc: that SPI chip is using a protocol sometimes called "m25p80", I think many stm32 libraries to handle it exist.
2021-09-11T12:17:10 < PaulFertser> Such as https://github.com/nimaltd/w25qxx etc
2021-09-11T12:18:00 < PaulFertser> Guess this is better https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/SerialFlash
2021-09-11T12:19:44 < ehsanecc> PaulFertser: You think is this possible to desolder microsd jack and make an exact size pcb to and a serial flash on it to replace?
2021-09-11T12:20:17 < jpa-> sure
2021-09-11T12:21:01 < ehsanecc> :)) i think i said it bad but you get what i'm saying :D
2021-09-11T12:23:34 < PaulFertser> You can make a PCB with castellated holes for easy soldering to the uSD holder footprint.
2021-09-11T12:27:59 < Steffanx> Or https://hackaday.io/project/168177-micro-sd-card-to-spi-flash-adapter
2021-09-11T12:28:49 < PaulFertser> "When playing with microSD, you want use SPI flash in your design and you have uSD connector"
2021-09-11T12:29:14 < jpa-> yeah, one could probably just get a bunch of those assembled and if needed, add some glue to really secure it to the holder
2021-09-11T12:29:39 < Steffanx> Wouldnt be surprised if china has em 
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2021-09-11T12:36:43 < ehsanecc> thanks guys, you are awesome!
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2021-09-11T14:19:02 < mouseghost> hi
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2021-09-11T14:29:27 < Steffanx> Lo
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2021-09-11T15:12:08 < mawk> the next GD32V: https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/09/10/mikron-mik32-made-in-russia-32-bit-risc-v-mcu-stm32l0-mcu/
2021-09-11T15:12:10 < mawk> made by the cousins of PaulFertser 
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2021-09-11T15:18:37 < ehsanecc> why rgb565 which takes 16bits and 2 bytes per pixel in a bmp file need 3 bytes ??!?
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2021-09-11T16:00:30 < mawk> because we don't like mixing into bytes 
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2021-09-11T16:00:52 < mawk> we better have 3 bytes for 3 colors than 2 ugly slow compressed bytes
2021-09-11T16:01:15 < jpa-> 2 ugly slow bytes that you could just throw straight to display ram
2021-09-11T16:01:36 < mawk> he talked about the BMP format
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2021-09-11T16:01:42 < mawk> so like on PC platform
2021-09-11T16:02:19 < mawk> on embedded stuff yes the 2 bytes format is preferable
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2021-09-11T16:03:13 < jpa-> back when BMP was designed, RGB24 was pretty rare
2021-09-11T16:04:29 < jpa-> (and BMP does support RGB565 natively, but maybe the application they're using doesn't save it like that)
2021-09-11T16:05:13 < mawk> I remember in a vga framebuffer at 24 bits pixel, each pixel is 4 bytes and not 3 bytes
2021-09-11T16:06:36 < mawk> and it's probably still the case with the framebuffers of modern graphics cards
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2021-09-11T16:07:07 < mawk> it's easier to copy and address and all that
2021-09-11T16:08:04 < mawk> because anyway the processor already copies memory by chunks of 4 or 8 or something like that
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2021-09-11T17:42:20 < Steffanx> Does karlp has his usb hub project in some repo somewhere public?
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2021-09-11T18:25:02 < Steffanx> nevermind
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2021-09-11T19:05:24 < englishman> yes hello MBA student here
2021-09-11T19:05:34 < englishman> writing a paper on diversity in the workplace on saturday morning
2021-09-11T19:05:38 < englishman> A+ student here yes
2021-09-11T19:06:09 < englishman> is everyone having fun trying to find non-existant stm32
2021-09-11T19:06:22 < englishman> maybe you just need to be more diverse
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2021-09-11T19:21:31 < mawk> so did you like my new gd32v?
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2021-09-11T19:21:34 < mawk> who was playing with that
2021-09-11T19:21:43 < mawk> zyp: 
2021-09-11T19:21:43 < mawk> maybe
2021-09-11T19:22:20 < mawk> https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/09/10/mikron-mik32-made-in-russia-32-bit-risc-v-mcu-stm32l0-mcu/
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2021-09-11T19:22:37 < Steffanx> I hope your joking about the subject englishman 
2021-09-11T19:23:06 < bitmask> an englishman would never joke about such things
2021-09-11T19:24:33 < englishman> no stefs
2021-09-11T19:24:47 < englishman> diversity in the workplace is important
2021-09-11T19:25:00 < englishman> read this article and give me 7 reasons why you would be motivated to diversify your workforce
2021-09-11T19:29:01 < mawk> wikipedia article about a french city: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochefourchat
2021-09-11T19:29:05 < mawk> article has 483098430 sections and ton of info
2021-09-11T19:29:08 < mawk> population: 1 inhabitant
2021-09-11T19:29:15 < Steffanx> Ok englishman 
2021-09-11T19:29:40 < Steffanx> In short: dont care :)
2021-09-11T19:30:57 < englishman> agree
2021-09-11T19:33:12 < jpa-> englishman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge  and look how much text about this pile of rocks with 0 inhabitants!
2021-09-11T19:34:03 < englishman> i was going to link the page of Oradour-sur-Glane which is shorter and has 0 inhabitants but it turns out people did eventually move back there
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2021-09-11T19:42:05 < mawk> yeah but nothing every happened in rochefourchat
2021-09-11T19:42:19 < mawk> except that Marine Le Pen got the majority of votes in 2018 election
2021-09-11T19:42:20 < karlp> Steffanx: https://github.com/karlp/hubbish 
2021-09-11T19:42:32 < karlp> but haven't finished rev2 layout.
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2021-09-11T20:22:26 < BrainDamage> karlp: missed a chance to call it hubris
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2021-09-11T20:53:59 < Steffanx> Yeah, I found it already, also usb 2.0
2021-09-11T20:54:05 < Steffanx> @ mr karlp 
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2021-09-11T21:15:12 < catphish> if i want to play with canbus, do i want an off the shelf USB thingemy, or start building my own board and programming an stm32?
2021-09-11T21:16:18 < catphish> all i know so far is i want to make cars do stuff, and find out what they're doing
2021-09-11T21:17:14 < catphish> (EV inverters, dashboard clusters, etc)
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2021-09-11T21:18:19 < catphish> even better, an stm32 dev board with canbus PHY?
2021-09-11T21:19:22 < PaulFertser> catphish: there're plenty of "elm32" usb thingies but they're all different clones unfortunately.
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2021-09-11T21:20:46 < catphish> i actually have a genuine elm32 OBD2 interface
2021-09-11T21:21:31 < catphish> that might help, i guess i'll have to give some thought to how to wire things up, and look at how its USB protocol works
2021-09-11T21:21:43 < catphish> i forgot i owned that!
2021-09-11T21:24:16 < catphish> it's an ELM327 with a OBD2 plug, looks that can do all kinda of protocols!
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2021-09-11T21:25:12 < PaulFertser> catphish: its protocol is similar to AT commands for dial-up modems. Quite a shitty protocol.
2021-09-11T21:25:38 < PaulFertser> Original elm32 supports not only CAN but also K-line which can be useful.
2021-09-11T21:26:07 < catphish> i *hope* i'll only need CAN, but will have to see what components i want to talk to
2021-09-11T21:30:21 < catphish> this thing doesn't power up from USB, that makes it harder to play with
2021-09-11T21:32:42 < catphish> i forgot i'll have wiring loom hell as soon as i start playing with car electronics
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2021-09-11T21:48:20 < zyp> mawk, yes
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2021-09-11T21:53:18 < catphish> looks like it's also fairly simple to conctruct my own PHY if i want to dev on stm32
2021-09-11T21:54:09 < mawk> is it necessary?
2021-09-11T21:54:16 < mawk> I thought some chips could do without
2021-09-11T21:54:29 < mawk> but I don't know much about CANister
2021-09-11T21:55:07 < zyp> can transceivers are off the shelf parts, typically so8
2021-09-11T21:55:22 < mawk> I mean some stm32 chips, like they have it builtin
2021-09-11T21:55:46 < zyp> the controller? yes
2021-09-11T21:55:59 < zyp> most of them do, except lowend parts
2021-09-11T21:56:00 < mawk> but not the transceiver?
2021-09-11T21:56:07 < zyp> no
2021-09-11T21:56:09 < mawk> a
2021-09-11T21:56:12 < mawk> so like ethernet
2021-09-11T21:56:24 < zyp> well, more like rs485
2021-09-11T21:56:35 < mawk> because it's funny voltages?
2021-09-11T21:56:38 < zyp> physically can is pretty similar to rs485
2021-09-11T21:56:58 < mawk> a
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2021-09-11T21:57:34 < zyp> you could probably run rs485 on can transceivers if you wanted to
2021-09-11T21:57:51 < zyp> the other way around would be less successful
2021-09-11T21:58:15 < mawk> liek smbus and i2c
2021-09-11T22:00:58 < PaulFertser> mawk: can is interesting l1-wise, I suggest you read about it. Multi-master muilt-in arbitration with priorities.
2021-09-11T22:01:26 < PaulFertser> Way more fancy than rs485.
2021-09-11T22:01:28 < mawk> ah nice
2021-09-11T22:01:33 < mawk> and fancier than i2c also I guess
2021-09-11T22:01:39 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-09-11T22:01:47 < catphish> i assumed an external PHY was necessary for the voltage, like rs232 etc
2021-09-11T22:01:53 < mawk> yes
2021-09-11T22:02:06 < PaulFertser> catphish: there's no reason not to use a ready-made CAN PHY
2021-09-11T22:02:29 < catphish> PaulFertser: i was thinking just a stm32 and a phy chip
2021-09-11T22:02:53 < PaulFertser> catphish: right, that's what I imply
2021-09-11T22:03:15 < catphish> cool, i found this, looks like all i need https://www.dailyduino.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/sche.png
2021-09-11T22:04:00 < catphish> probably easiest just to get a nucleo and hand build an addon with that chip
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2021-09-12T02:41:57 < kakium69> *kin tequila
2021-09-12T02:43:07 < kakium69> googke: how to keep tequila inside your stomach
2021-09-12T02:47:51 < kakium69> for sure I collected all them girls to my table
2021-09-12T02:48:26 < kakium69> my friends were like should I approach her or her or..
2021-09-12T02:49:22 < kakium69> I just bought tequilas and ask'd like every gurl there to join my table to drink free tequila
2021-09-12T02:53:18 < kakium69> after all those gurls not so intresting and intesting ones were like 29 and in relationship and had kids
2021-09-12T02:56:57 < kakium69> I drank like 2 tequilas with gurls and second time I had vomit visiting my mouth
2021-09-12T02:57:19 < kakium69> I sweat it was nothing but whisky
2021-09-12T02:57:47 < kakium69> slash anything other brown liqour
2021-09-12T03:17:50 < englishman> https://github.com/bnjbvr/rouille
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2021-09-12T04:05:30 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804210713982926894/886382272784244776/image0.jpg
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2021-09-12T08:22:07 < jpa-> jadew: i didn't know you are 42 already
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2021-09-12T12:53:27 < jadew> haha jpa- 
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2021-09-12T14:06:32 < mouseghost> hii
2021-09-12T14:06:40 < mouseghost> whos ##stm32 telegram group admin?
2021-09-12T14:09:27 < englishman> are you banned?
2021-09-12T14:10:37 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-12T14:15:21 < mouseghost> ye
2021-09-12T14:16:04 < englishman> why were you banned?
2021-09-12T14:17:18 < mouseghost> no idea tbh
2021-09-12T14:18:53 < englishman> was it not for being a furry and talking about diapers or other inappropriate shit?
2021-09-12T14:35:52 -!- Coldberg [~C-Man@78.31.190.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-09-12T14:36:14 < mouseghost> oh yeah maybe
2021-09-12T14:36:18 < mouseghost> but im not talking about diapers anymore
2021-09-12T14:42:14 < Steffanx> oh i recall im chief of waffels there, but i dont know how to unban someone
2021-09-12T14:44:18 < mouseghost> Steffanx, i think you need to click something
2021-09-12T14:45:28 < mouseghost> manage group, permissions, removed users
2021-09-12T14:45:32 < mouseghost> idk who decided that in telegram
2021-09-12T14:46:33 < PaulFertser> Can you get banned on a furry telegram group for talking stm32?
2021-09-12T14:47:14 < Steffanx> No the otherway around :D
2021-09-12T14:47:21 < Steffanx> stm32 group talking furry
2021-09-12T14:47:49 < PaulFertser> The other way we have confirmed. I wanted to know if furries are more tolerant to inappropriate shit.
2021-09-12T14:48:13 < Steffanx> ah
2021-09-12T14:48:29 < Steffanx> stm32 is inappropriate? :O
2021-09-12T14:48:41 < PaulFertser> For a furry channel? I'd guess so.
2021-09-12T14:49:08 < mouseghost> yeah thats offtopic and nobody wants to listen to boring computer thing
2021-09-12T14:50:24 < Steffanx> does mouseghost consider himself "furry"?
2021-09-12T14:50:39 < mouseghost> yes mr Steffanx
2021-09-12T14:50:45 < Steffanx> oh dear
2021-09-12T14:50:48 < mouseghost> i, however, do not like hairy men
2021-09-12T14:52:11 < mouseghost> any of you know dijkstra algo.?
2021-09-12T14:52:17 < PaulFertser> Furries meet bears
2021-09-12T14:54:01 < PaulFertser> Both turn away in disgust
2021-09-12T14:55:21 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-12T14:55:51 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: the one for finding shortest path in a graph? Wikipedia article looks sane, what are you missing there?
2021-09-12T14:55:58 < mouseghost> yeah
2021-09-12T14:56:14 < mouseghost> the thing is a bit confusing hm
2021-09-12T14:56:20 < mouseghost> but maybe ill form a better question
2021-09-12T14:56:28 < mouseghost> i actually refer to the original paper by him
2021-09-12T14:58:33 < mouseghost> ah, now i answered my own question
2021-09-12T14:58:58 < mouseghost> cause im trying to rephrase the algo a bit, so its easier to understand (im writing a popsci article), but i got kinda confused for a second. and im scared of making a mistake
2021-09-12T14:59:03 < PaulFertser> Steffanx, please unban mouseghost . Only a really cool fellow can be bothered to read original CS papers.
2021-09-12T14:59:13 < mouseghost> im there already meow PaulFertser
2021-09-12T14:59:33 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: ah, cool. I'm not as I do not use telegram shit.
2021-09-12T14:59:39 < mouseghost> i see
2021-09-12T15:00:13 < mouseghost> well, i must say that he certainly wasnt blessed with the ability to explain things clearly
2021-09-12T15:00:26 < mouseghost> (im not better)
2021-09-12T15:00:31 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: will you share the draft to the popsci article here for peer review?
2021-09-12T15:00:43 < mouseghost> its in polish, unfortunately :(
2021-09-12T15:01:00 < mouseghost> but sure, i can share
2021-09-12T15:01:25 < mouseghost> im just rewriting things rn
2021-09-12T15:03:10 < mouseghost> i can certainly tell you if it gets (if) published :D
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2021-09-12T15:34:44 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, do you mean that normal people dont read original papers?
2021-09-12T15:43:40 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: afaict, yes
2021-09-12T15:43:48 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-12T15:46:07 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I was teaching in a local moscow university, not a top one, but it was ok. And many students weren't ever really reading anything at all. Imagine they open a text book and instead of understanding the material they're trying to find some example or ready-made formula or something like that, and try to apply that to their problem.
2021-09-12T15:46:27 < mouseghost> X_X
2021-09-12T15:46:35 < mouseghost> i mean, this is one approach, isnt it...
2021-09-12T15:46:55 < mouseghost> btw, PaulFertser, so are you still in moscow?
2021-09-12T15:47:42 < PaulFertser> What's even worse is that they do not even realise they're not understanding anything. So when reading they can't stop and go back to reread because they have no clue they stopped understanding and thus must go back.
2021-09-12T15:47:53 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I still am
2021-09-12T15:48:33 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, i am very much into exchanging postcards. and i was wondering, would you be up for an exchange?
2021-09-12T15:48:42 < Steffanx> hehe
2021-09-12T15:49:09 < Steffanx> mouseghost is into this website much? Postcrossing or something?
2021-09-12T15:49:17 < mouseghost> though it would be beneficial to get a postcard outside of russia once lol
2021-09-12T15:49:29 < mouseghost> oh i didnt know there was a website for that lol
2021-09-12T15:49:45 < Steffanx> Yeah, my mom does it sometimes. She gets card from all over the world.
2021-09-12T15:50:05 < mouseghost> yeah its an awesome thing to exchange things like that with people from everywhere
2021-09-12T15:50:18 < mouseghost> i recently got iranian post stamps from 1992 o;
2021-09-12T15:51:11 < Steffanx> https://www.postcrossing.com/stats/topusers/alltime damn ... almost 33k postcard sent
2021-09-12T15:51:17 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, i wish i could say something re understanding, but i cant say much hm. certainly a depressing view on the world, since they are the ones who will go out into the world, arent they.
2021-09-12T15:51:28 < mouseghost> Steffanx, must be some richman
2021-09-12T15:51:42 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: sure, let's exchange some postcards, but without the silly websites.
2021-09-12T15:52:00 < mouseghost> sure! obviously without them
2021-09-12T15:52:11 < mouseghost> Steffanx, thats like 50k eur with current prices here
2021-09-12T15:52:11 < Steffanx> PaulFertser will send you some ascii art. \o/
2021-09-12T15:52:15 < mouseghost> OOO:
2021-09-12T15:52:52 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: my personal impression is that most people even those considered professionals are quite shallow. I might be wrong.
2021-09-12T15:53:01 < PaulFertser> I'm not into art unfortunately
2021-09-12T15:53:28 < Steffanx> Just get some paint, spray it on a card, call it art.
2021-09-12T15:53:43 < Steffanx> "My chaotic brain"
2021-09-12T15:53:46 < mouseghost> yeah i would imagine that with so many bright people in the world, there would be more... of something, PaulFertser
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2021-09-12T16:01:22 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: btw, have you considered getting a ham license and exchanging QSLs?
2021-09-12T16:01:43 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, i have considered getting a ham license, but never really gotten to do it.. are you a ham?
2021-09-12T16:02:15 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: no, but I wanted to become one when I was a learning in school.
2021-09-12T16:02:47 < mouseghost> well, right now i do have a rather busy time, as the examinations will be carried out in may '22, so..
2021-09-12T16:02:51 < mouseghost> i need to get ready for that
2021-09-12T16:03:09 < mouseghost> currently ive been more interested in gliding (ie these planes that dont have a wroom)
2021-09-12T16:03:16 < mouseghost> vroom
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2021-09-12T16:03:35 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: so you're getting some proper training for that? Or do you mean RC gliders? :)
2021-09-12T16:03:56 < mouseghost> i mean the proper big ones. and ive been just thinking :D
2021-09-12T16:04:04 < mouseghost> yes, id get a training if i will decide to do it
2021-09-12T16:04:07 < mouseghost> but i need time for that as well
2021-09-12T16:04:12 < mouseghost> probably next holidays
2021-09-12T16:05:47 < PaulFertser> Discus launched RC gliders look cool
2021-09-12T16:06:27 < mouseghost> oh wow
2021-09-12T16:06:31 < mouseghost> reminds me of discgolf
2021-09-12T16:07:49 < PaulFertser> I like how they catch and relaunch them without landing
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2021-09-12T16:37:04 < englishman> PaulFertser: it’s a legitimate tactic to use a textbook as a reference only. Especially when you are pressured for time. In school as in real life sometimes you just have to get shit done. If you have the time to invest in reading a paper, then yes you can learn that way as well. I have the time to do that now.
2021-09-12T16:39:34 < PaulFertser> englishman: it's ok to use it as a reference. But often times I saw it used as a list of "recipies", "templates".
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2021-09-12T16:43:10 < mouseghost> do you have places which offer to write a paper for some sum of money?
2021-09-12T16:50:08 < PaulFertser> Not sure
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2021-09-12T17:27:01 < mouseghost> we certainly have these
2021-09-12T17:27:02 < mouseghost> like
2021-09-12T17:27:04 < mouseghost> for thesis etc
2021-09-12T17:27:31 < mouseghost> they call them "templates" lol
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2021-09-12T17:31:16 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: ah, you mean those people faking their course work to trick teachers? Like some dumb arse pays someone to do the homework for him or her?
2021-09-12T17:31:36 < mouseghost> yeah something like that, but also for the end of the course ;v 
2021-09-12T17:31:54 < mouseghost> this is a thing ill never understand, i think..
2021-09-12T17:31:59 < PaulFertser> We have that, yes :(
2021-09-12T17:32:43 < mawk> send me "postcards" with special gifts inside mouseghost 
2021-09-12T17:32:56 < mouseghost> mawk, im not sending you drugs
2021-09-12T17:32:58 < mawk> you go to the shady corner of your train station to buy me the gift
2021-09-12T17:33:03 < mawk> why
2021-09-12T17:33:03 < PaulFertser> Do you have draft army in Poland? Many men here need "university education" just to escape the draft.
2021-09-12T17:33:17 < mouseghost> we had this. now its only classification
2021-09-12T17:35:48 < mouseghost> gtg
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2021-09-12T18:59:16 < guanche> Hey guys, what bootloader could I flash for trouble-free uploading of firmware in windows/msys?
2021-09-12T18:59:24 < guanche> I mean, to a bluepill
2021-09-12T19:00:35 < jpa-> use stlink
2021-09-12T19:00:45 < jpa-> developing without debugger is for arduino folks anyway
2021-09-12T19:01:19 < guanche> and you have both plugged constantly?
2021-09-12T19:01:28 < jpa-> sure
2021-09-12T19:01:37 < guanche> I'll try, thanks
2021-09-12T19:04:04 < guanche> and you have to make it like this jpa-?: https://microcontrollerelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BluePill_as_Stlink.png
2021-09-12T19:04:38 < guanche> I already had one bluepill with the resistor soldered and with the stlink firmware on it
2021-09-12T19:04:58 < jpa-> i just use the one on a discovery board, but yeah, should work
2021-09-12T19:05:18 < guanche> but that wouldn't allow me to plug the usb on the target bluepill?
2021-09-12T19:05:29 < jpa-> why not?
2021-09-12T19:06:01 < guanche> short-circuit? I should not connect power from the stlink to the target then, no?
2021-09-12T19:06:27 < jpa-> yeah, you can leave 3.3V wire off if you want, though paralleling two 3.3V regulators is unlikely to cause any problems
2021-09-12T19:06:45 < guanche> I'll try, thanks
2021-09-12T19:08:37 < kakium69> PaulFertser: I had discus glider
2021-09-12T19:09:04 < kakium69> I threw it so hard I pulled like wingspar or something
2021-09-12T19:09:10 < kakium69> once I also flew it into lake
2021-09-12T19:09:19 < kakium69> then I just took it to sauna
2021-09-12T19:10:25 < kakium69> without löyly so it could dry up in +70c dry air
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2021-09-12T19:11:16 < kakium69> long gone are days of cheap rc planes
2021-09-12T19:11:23 < kakium69> from hobby king
2021-09-12T19:11:59 < PaulFertser> kakium69: haha, too strong kaki
2021-09-12T19:12:01 < kakium69> I think I ordered ARF trash for like 60eur or 80eur
2021-09-12T19:13:25 < kakium69> styrofoam with some carbon fiber spars hastly glued into it isn't that expensive to manufacture
2021-09-12T19:21:25 < Steffanx> Time to make youe own, kakium69 
2021-09-12T19:21:34 < kakium69> maybe
2021-09-12T19:23:30 < Steffanx> Maybe = no
2021-09-12T19:24:28 < kakium69> maybe
2021-09-12T19:24:51 < kakium69> I just proved you wrong steff
2021-09-12T19:25:26 < kakium69> paradox
2021-09-12T19:31:30 < bitmask> the gf and I flew a tiny $30 drone in the park yesterday, it was fun but too windy
2021-09-12T19:33:15 < bitmask> it was our first time flying it, i tried in the backyard first but the trimming was way off and the wind took it over the fence into the neighbors yard, i almost got it back but it hit the fence and landed where it couldnt take off again. got it with a chair and rake (they didnt answer the door) and we decided to go into a bigger area like a park
2021-09-12T19:34:22 < kakium69> what fun there is to fly fully trimmed and perfectly gyro'ed drone
2021-09-12T19:34:37 < kakium69> unless it's really powerful
2021-09-12T19:34:48 < kakium69> then it needs to be spot on
2021-09-12T19:35:05 < bitmask> i didnt get it perfect but having more room gave me the chance to get it pretty well trimmed
2021-09-12T19:36:07 < kakium69> my first RC plane was the fastest I have ever had since
2021-09-12T19:36:15 < bitmask> it was bad enough at first that holding the stick fully forward was what the center should have been 
2021-09-12T19:36:31 < bitmask> yea my first drone i wont even fly cause its too scary :P
2021-09-12T19:36:44 < bitmask> its a 680mm hexacopter with 12 or 13" props
2021-09-12T19:36:46 < bitmask> CF props
2021-09-12T19:37:35 < bitmask> plus it had my own firmware controlling it, i wanna shrink it down a little, maybe just a quad and put a real board on it
2021-09-12T19:39:45 < bitmask> that was my first electronics project too
2021-09-12T19:39:57 < bitmask> first dive into arduino and then stm32 when i realized arduino sucked
2021-09-12T19:40:11 < bitmask> and how i met you fine people
2021-09-12T19:42:01 < kakium69> the finest*
2021-09-12T19:42:20 < bitmask> :)
2021-09-12T19:50:34 < Steffanx> Who wants quads nowadays?
2021-09-12T19:53:17 < qyx> I started building 700mm 12" hexa too
2021-09-12T19:53:40 < qyx> about 6y ago
2021-09-12T19:54:25 < qyx> never finished but I still have the components
2021-09-12T19:57:58 < kakium69> it's the typical drone project
2021-09-12T19:58:12 < kakium69> it has some parts in shelf
2021-09-12T19:58:18 < kakium69> for half a decade
2021-09-12T20:14:04 < bitmask> qyx, i only had one successful flight and then stored it away
2021-09-12T20:15:05 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/QI-EvEFcpMs
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2021-09-12T20:15:20 < bitmask> definitely needed some more tuning
2021-09-12T20:16:22 < qyx> I'll build a solar glider instead probabably
2021-09-12T20:17:36 < kakium69> there is youtubes of such thing
2021-09-12T20:19:14 < mouseghost> yeah! ive seen it some years ago
2021-09-12T20:19:18 < mouseghost> it reached high altitude
2021-09-12T20:30:16 < kakium69> there was one proper one that did some records
2021-09-12T20:31:35 < kakium69> then there was a thing with some solar cells wrapped into wrapping plastic type of project
2021-09-12T20:37:57 < guanche> is there any known usb bulk driver for windows/mingw64?
2021-09-12T20:38:13 < guanche> I mean, opensource that I can have a look at
2021-09-12T20:38:25 < kakium69> libusb?
2021-09-12T20:38:45 < guanche> or libusbK, or mingw64's winusb
2021-09-12T20:48:02 < PaulFertser> winusb is not opensource though
2021-09-12T20:48:19 < PaulFertser> If you mean the kernel driver
2021-09-12T20:50:57 < guanche> no, it seems all I have to do is to provide a WICD descriptor and use zadig to link my device with libusb, libusbK, winusb, etc, rather than to need a driver as such
2021-09-12T20:51:40 < PaulFertser> guanche: usually people just say "use zadig to install WinUSB for /that/ device manually" and link to libusb.
2021-09-12T20:51:52 < PaulFertser> No special descriptor or anything.
2021-09-12T20:52:30 < PaulFertser> guanche: libusb-win32 is old libusb-0.1 driver, not used for anything anymore
2021-09-12T20:52:48 < guanche> well, then I'm doing something wrong, cause zadig mentions my device as unknown. Anyways, I'm new to development in this area for windows so I don't yet have much of a clue
2021-09-12T20:53:10 < PaulFertser> guanche: it doesn't matter if it's known or not, it doesn't prevent installing winusb for it.
2021-09-12T20:53:43 < PaulFertser> guanche: you can check README.Windows for OpenOCD, I can tell you the end-users do not complain, and OpenOCD doesn't do anything special.
2021-09-12T20:53:55 < guanche> I guess I can go on and link it, but if device id or product id aren't shown, I don't think I'd be going anywhere
2021-09-12T20:54:13 < PaulFertser> guanche: zadig just forces the driver for any device you choose.
2021-09-12T20:54:16 < PaulFertser> And it works
2021-09-12T20:54:41 < guanche> it shows 000 and 0002 for my device
2021-09-12T20:54:53 < PaulFertser> VID/PID?
2021-09-12T20:54:54 < guanche> as USB ID, so I'd rather solve that first
2021-09-12T20:54:56 < guanche> yes
2021-09-12T20:55:36 < guanche> probably a firmware problem where the device is not enumerating properly though
2021-09-12T20:55:55 < PaulFertser> guanche: USB ID is shown no matter if it's known or not, whether there's a driver or not available etc.
2021-09-12T20:56:00 < PaulFertser> guanche: yes, that
2021-09-12T20:56:24 < PaulFertser> I think wireshark can show you USB traffic on windows with some addon.
2021-09-12T20:56:27 < guanche> yes, I can even see the button "add this pair to the known database", but I don't see much of a point on it at the moment
2021-09-12T20:56:45 < PaulFertser> You do not need any database or anything.
2021-09-12T20:56:58 < guanche> I'm looking through the code, and will probably resort to it, to wireshark
2021-09-12T20:57:09 < guanche> no, I mean the zadig application
2021-09-12T20:57:23 < guanche> has a button to make your vid/pid known to it
2021-09-12T20:57:57 < PaulFertser> I've never used that button
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2021-09-12T21:38:25 < kakium69> helium-3
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2021-09-12T22:49:47 < kakium69> channel is growing
2021-09-12T22:50:04 < kakium69> we are almost in our past strenght
2021-09-12T22:50:10 < kakium69> only dongs is missing
2021-09-12T22:51:39 < Steffanx> Dont think he will join, for whatever reason that is
2021-09-12T22:53:02 < kakium69> it's the open source spirit of the network
2021-09-12T22:53:12 < kakium69> it burns his skin
2021-09-12T22:54:00 < emeb> :P
2021-09-12T23:06:28 < qyx> oh molex pre-crimped cables on mouser
2021-09-12T23:07:24 < qyx> but isn't AWG20 too thick?
2021-09-12T23:07:34 < qyx> those american units..
2021-09-12T23:12:31 < kakium69> for signals?
2021-09-12T23:20:22 < kakium69> are we talking about some MIL connector or industrial connector system?
2021-09-12T23:20:38 < kakium69> those use thick cables for signaling
2021-09-12T23:20:55 < mawk> PaulFertser: in how many different ways can you do 1€ with euro coins?
2021-09-12T23:21:02 < mawk> euro coins are 1¢, 2¢, 5¢, 10¢, 20¢, 50¢, 1€
2021-09-12T23:21:27 < kakium69> is this a night puzzle?
2021-09-12T23:21:36 < mawk> yes kakium69 
2021-09-12T23:22:38 < mawk> answer is 4563 different ways, but what's interesting is how you arrive at the answer
2021-09-12T23:22:56 < karlp> what are coins?
2021-09-12T23:23:00 < mawk> :(
2021-09-12T23:23:10 < mawk> little round metal pieces that serve as units of currency
2021-09-12T23:23:10 < kakium69> mawk: using the magic of maths?
2021-09-12T23:23:17 < mawk> kakium69: and computers
2021-09-12T23:23:26 < kakium69> ah
2021-09-12T23:23:27 < mawk> I tried to do it 100% by hand but I ran out of paper
2021-09-12T23:23:34 < mawk> so I let the computorz finish the work
2021-09-12T23:23:36 < kakium69> then it's no problem if computers are allowed
2021-09-12T23:23:43 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-12T23:23:53 < mawk> but my algorithm is O(n log n)
2021-09-12T23:23:57 < PaulFertser> mawk: you still think I'm not too dumb for puzzles like that?..
2021-09-12T23:24:02 < mawk> so you could do it naively in O(n^7) but that's not very good
2021-09-12T23:24:17 < mawk> yes PaulFertser 
2021-09-12T23:24:37 < mawk> you can use excel, or programming, or magic maths
2021-09-12T23:27:10 < mawk> here's what I told my computor to do kakium69 : https://serveur.io/Coins.html
2021-09-12T23:27:17 < mawk> it's O(n²) I lied, but if I used a FFT it could be O(n log n)
2021-09-12T23:29:19 < mawk> it's not a puzzle you can solve by hand PaulFertser ; I mean you can but you have to do many calculations since you need to compute a degree 100 polynomial
2021-09-12T23:29:38 < mawk> you could have some optimization to have less computation to do but it's still a lot of work
2021-09-12T23:29:51 < mawk> and using maths isn't the only way, you can do it normally
2021-09-12T23:35:49 < mawk> I tried to compute it for 10^100 € but I get an overflow
2021-09-12T23:35:54 < mawk> I need to be smarter about this
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2021-09-12T23:46:09 < Steffanx> Mawk: Typical math shit. Just dumb some "random" formula and say you found the answer.
2021-09-12T23:46:27 < Steffanx> Dump.
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2021-09-12T23:48:09 < mouseghost> mawk, what u doing
2021-09-12T23:48:40 < mawk> it's not random at all Steffanx 
2021-09-12T23:48:48 < mawk> that's not how maths works
2021-09-12T23:49:22 < mawk> people can verify formulas
2021-09-12T23:49:27 < mawk> and anyway I explained it
2021-09-12T23:49:42 < mawk> you could understand it too if you tried on a smaller example
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2021-09-12T23:53:28 < Steffanx> Explained it in math language. 
2021-09-12T23:53:36 < Steffanx> => dump formula
2021-09-12T23:54:02 < mouseghost> isnt it connected to binomial theorem or something?
--- Day changed Mon Sep 13 2021
2021-09-13T00:00:43 < mouseghost> mawk, maybe you could also try seeing if theres some kind of sequence?
2021-09-13T00:00:48 < mouseghost> https://oeis.org/
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2021-09-13T00:03:58 < Steffanx> Also mawk: why is "no coin" and option? 
2021-09-13T00:04:03 < Steffanx> An*
2021-09-13T00:04:32 < Steffanx> Then 1 cent can be 1 coin + 1000 no coins?
2021-09-13T00:07:03 < Steffanx> Or maybe a 0c coin, but also not in the list with possible coins 
2021-09-13T00:16:23 < Steffanx> Lol mawk, did you run after my negativity?
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2021-09-13T01:00:39 < mawk> I explained it in english Steffanx 
2021-09-13T01:00:50 < mawk> "no coin" is an option yes Steffanx 
2021-09-13T01:01:02 < mawk> there is exactly 1 way to do 0€
2021-09-13T01:01:08 < mawk> which is: doing nothing
2021-09-13T01:02:15 < mawk> but the "no coin" coin doesn't count
2021-09-13T01:02:31 < mawk> it's not counted in the total of other coins
2021-09-13T01:02:38 < Steffanx> But you can do nothing twice 
2021-09-13T01:02:41 < mawk> because there is only 1 way to give no coin, not 1000 ways
2021-09-13T01:02:56 < mawk> no, "no coin" doesn't mean "coin of 0€"
2021-09-13T01:03:08 < mawk> it means "do nothing"
2021-09-13T01:03:15 < mawk> and there's only 1 way to do it, so it doesn't add anything
2021-09-13T01:03:18 < mawk> to other totals
2021-09-13T01:03:38 < qyx> I bet I know at least 100 ways of doing nothing
2021-09-13T01:03:43 < mawk> :(
2021-09-13T01:04:40 < Steffanx> Haha ty qyx 
2021-09-13T01:05:21 < mawk> Steffanx: when you make up some value using coins, you've got the choice of using a certain amount of 1¢ coins, then a certain amount of 2¢ coins, a certain amount of 5¢, and so on
2021-09-13T01:05:39 < mawk> and "do nothing" just means taking 0 of each coin
2021-09-13T01:05:41 < mawk> and there's only 1 way to do it
2021-09-13T01:05:54 < mawk> in the same manner, there is only one way to take only one 1¢ coin and 0 of all others
2021-09-13T01:06:07 < mawk> you wouldn't say "there is 5000 ways to give a unique 1¢ coin", there is only one such way
2021-09-13T01:07:18 < zyp> mawk, you're effectively asking how many different solutions there are to 100*A + 50*B + 20*C + 10*D + 5*E + 2*F + 1*G == 100 where A..G are positive integers
2021-09-13T01:07:47 < zyp> it's equivalent to 100*A + 50*B + 20*C + 10*D + 5*E + 2*F <= 100
2021-09-13T01:08:44 < mawk> yes I suppose
2021-09-13T01:09:07 < zyp> I don't see a convenient way to solve it further without resorting to for-loops
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2021-09-13T01:11:02 < qyx> you can probably solve it like it is common
2021-09-13T01:11:13 < qyx> for a given amount of €, start with the biggest banknotes you have
2021-09-13T01:11:36 < zyp> I mean, the for loops would be truncated
2021-09-13T01:11:57 < qyx> or coins
2021-09-13T01:12:01 < zyp> for A=0 and B=1, C=0..2
2021-09-13T01:12:57 < zyp> trivial complexity for a computer, just a hassle to do by hand
2021-09-13T01:13:12 < qyx> or just while (value > 0) { if (value > 0.5) give_50c(); else if (value > 0.2) give_20c()...
2021-09-13T01:13:37 < zyp> huh?
2021-09-13T01:13:37 < qyx> and subtract after giving of course
2021-09-13T01:13:55 < Steffanx> give_nothing();
2021-09-13T01:13:55 < zyp> you're not trying to use the least number of coins, question is how many possible combinations
2021-09-13T01:14:20 < zyp> problem is that you can't start with small groups and just add up either
2021-09-13T01:14:31 < qyx> I missed the queston, sry
2021-09-13T01:14:54 < qyx> oh in how many different ways..
2021-09-13T01:15:05 < zyp> hmm, unless there's a pattern to it
2021-09-13T01:15:20 < mawk> 1, 2, 5; 10, 20, 50
2021-09-13T01:15:22 < Steffanx> Just come up with the polynomial. Magically use algebra to make it managable and done ;)
2021-09-13T01:15:24 < mawk> seems like a patternz to me
2021-09-13T01:15:33 < mawk> it's not hard to come up with Steffanx 
2021-09-13T01:16:06 < mawk> it's a polynomial only for practical purposes, because of how the exponents add up when you multiply the X together
2021-09-13T01:16:06 < qyx> I would start with 10c, 20c and 50c
2021-09-13T01:16:45 < Steffanx> I bet its not hard when you already know what you're doing... as usual with math.
2021-09-13T01:16:59 < qyx> ok but not today
2021-09-13T01:18:04 < mawk> no I didn't already know what I was doing, it was my first try using this method
2021-09-13T01:18:05 < mawk> Steffanx: you know how to expand polynomials right? if you expand (1+X)(1+X^2)(1+X^4) like you learnt in school, you know the coefficient of X^2 will be the number of ways you could get X^2
2021-09-13T01:18:13 < mawk> if you expand it you get 1 + X + X^2 + X^3 + X^4 + X^5 + X^6 + X^7
2021-09-13T01:18:38 < mawk> that means, using 1 2 and 4 you can make each number from 0 to 7 in a unique way; because all coefficients are 1
2021-09-13T01:19:15 < mawk> if you expand it by hand you will see why this is the case
2021-09-13T01:19:46 < mawk> X is nothing special here, it's just a way to stuff our numbers in powers
2021-09-13T01:19:50 < mawk> you can replace X by zglurb
2021-09-13T01:19:52 < zyp> hmm, f(n) goes 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11
2021-09-13T01:20:14 < zyp> your solution is f(100)
2021-09-13T01:20:41 < mawk> zyp: array([ 1,  1,  2,  2,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,  8, 11, 12, 15, 16, 19])
2021-09-13T01:20:41 < mawk> that'sthe first 15 of them
2021-09-13T01:21:00 < zyp> :)
2021-09-13T01:21:59 < mawk> well done
2021-09-13T01:21:59 < zyp> but you haven't found a pattern to it?
2021-09-13T01:22:08 < mawk> not yet
2021-09-13T01:22:12 < mawk> I get a overflow when I try too big numbers
2021-09-13T01:22:28 < mawk> so I'm trying to find a way to do it for bigger numbers
2021-09-13T01:22:45 < mawk> I mean, I'm trying to find a pattern for f(10^n)
2021-09-13T01:23:16 < mawk> I don't think there is a pattern to f(n) alone; there is a formula which I gave in my paste, but it's using a sum
2021-09-13T01:23:21 < mawk> zyp: https://serveur.io/Coins.html
2021-09-13T01:23:39 < mawk> f(n) is the coefficients of the polynomial
2021-09-13T01:23:59 < mawk> that's called a generating function, the polynomial is the generating function of the sequence {f(n)}, it's a pretty typical way to do things
2021-09-13T01:24:40 < zyp> okay, that's too mathy for me
2021-09-13T01:24:52 < mawk> and it's a very powerful trick: you have a sequence {a_n}, and define a function f(x) such that f(x) = a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 + ...; and then you can do a lot of manipulation on the sequences by manipulating the functions instead
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2021-09-13T01:25:05 < mawk> well it looks mathy but it's quite an easy concept
2021-09-13T01:25:16 < mawk> the X is fake, it's just a way to stuff our numbers in powers
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2021-09-13T01:26:06 < mawk> X^20 represents a total of 20¢, so when we multiply that with X^15 which is a total of 15¢, the result is X^35 which is indeed a total of 35¢
2021-09-13T01:26:14 < zyp> what's f(25)?
2021-09-13T01:26:15 < mawk> we use powers of X because they add up nicely when you multiply
2021-09-13T01:26:31 < mawk> 68
2021-09-13T01:27:36 < mawk> the numbers look a lot like a gaussian curve, but I don't know if there is an easy pattern to it
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2021-09-13T01:30:29 < mawk> do you get 68 too zyp ?
2021-09-13T01:30:46 < zyp> not calculating it, I assumed you were correct
2021-09-13T01:30:52 < mawk> a
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2021-09-13T01:41:41 < Steffanx> Google agrees 
2021-09-13T01:44:03 < mawk> woohoo
2021-09-13T01:44:08 < Steffanx> https://oeis.org/A001313/list ;)
2021-09-13T01:44:47 < Steffanx> Same question minus your 100c coin 🥳
2021-09-13T01:45:06 < mawk> same question but without the 1€ coin?
2021-09-13T01:45:11 < mawk> well then it's same answer - 1
2021-09-13T01:46:33 < Steffanx> https://oeis.org/A001313 yes.
2021-09-13T01:48:11 < mawk> ah right
2021-09-13T01:48:20 < mawk> so my formula was working perfektly
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2021-09-13T04:41:19 < englishman> cool mawk
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2021-09-13T10:44:33 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIj00RTQXMI
2021-09-13T10:49:06 < jpa-> i wish there were a series of 0603 NP0 caps that had labeling
2021-09-13T10:49:21 < jadew> I think there are
2021-09-13T10:49:35 < jpa-> now i always end up having protos and forgetting what caps i put on the filters
2021-09-13T10:49:45 < jadew> there's a type of marking used for caps (I think for military applications)
2021-09-13T10:50:07 < Steffanx> There are those guys that write your name on a grain of rice. Maybe you can hire such guy
2021-09-13T10:51:32 < jpa-> AVX and KEMET catalogs list 0805 as the smallest size that is available with markings
2021-09-13T10:51:40 < jadew> yeah
2021-09-13T10:51:44 < jadew> that's what I was about to say
2021-09-13T10:52:32 < Steffanx> I feel sorry for you, jpa- 
2021-09-13T10:52:56 < Steffanx> (Assuming you already know there is no solution, so all I can do is share your pain)
2021-09-13T10:53:53 < qyx> jpa-: I have a readme.rst in the project folder where I track all protos and their differences
2021-09-13T10:54:08 < qyx> such as values differing fro the schematic
2021-09-13T10:54:12 < jpa-> i wonder if there are permanent markers available in resistor colors.. then i could e.g. put brown and green dot on the capacitor
2021-09-13T10:55:11 < jpa-> qyx: yeah, but when running a test series like https://raw.githubusercontent.com/devEmbedded/differential_probe/main/design_notes/response_comparison.png i just never remember to log what i left there :)
2021-09-13T10:55:19 < jpa-> fortunately for now i got it from file timestamps
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2021-09-13T15:28:47 < karlp> fucking gdb python is still python2?!
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2021-09-13T15:37:55 < jpa-> karlp: on my ubuntu 20.04, gdb-multiarch has python 3.8.10
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2021-09-13T15:40:53 < qyx> no python in GNU gdb (GNU Arm Embedded Toolchain 10-2020-q4-major) 10.1.90.20201028-git
2021-09-13T15:40:56 < qyx> :>
2021-09-13T15:45:02 < zyp> on my debian bullseye, gdb-multiarch got 3.9.2
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2021-09-13T15:57:08 < karlp> jpa-: yeah, I'm just using system gdb myself now, but tedious that neither cube nor gcc-arm has viable python
2021-09-13T15:57:15 < karlp> cube has no python at all, and gcc-arm is 2.7.
2021-09-13T15:57:29 < karlp> qyx: in gcc-arm it's in the gdb-py
2021-09-13T15:58:00 < qyx> arm-none-eabi-gdb-py: error while loading shared libraries: libpython2.7.so.1.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2021-09-13T15:58:03 < qyx> yeah
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2021-09-13T16:04:27 < karlp> bleh, system gdb can't ctrl-c to break again.
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2021-09-13T16:22:15 < karlp> feck, it's related to my matplotlib invocation
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2021-09-13T18:31:07 < karlp> damnit. something like ctrl-c has been taken over by the matplot lib invocation and now it's gone.
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2021-09-13T18:45:30 < karlp> I think I'm not the only one having issues... https://gist.github.com/djwbrown/3e24bf4e0c5e9ee156a5
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2021-09-13T19:08:39 < englishman> Interested in supporting the development of open industry standards? JEDEC is seeking candidates with 3-5 years of experience as a technical writer/editor to prepare completed standards for publication. Set your own schedule: this is a part-time consulting position and is entirely remote. For more information please contact
2021-09-13T19:08:44 < englishman> job for mouseghost
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2021-09-13T19:31:04 < BrainDamage> gotta specify open vs closed standards, where one needs obscurity in order to bill consulting to decypher it
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2021-09-13T20:00:56 < catphish> morning libtards
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2021-09-13T20:33:45 < catphish> is stm32 stock still horribly unavailable?
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2021-09-13T20:40:23 < catphish> looks like it is :(
2021-09-13T20:44:39 < catphish> jlc are charging $13 for an F103!
2021-09-13T20:46:42 < Steffann> Who wants a f103 anyway?
2021-09-13T20:47:01 < Steffann> but yes, stm32 is horribly unavailable, libtard.
2021-09-13T20:47:24 < kakium69> I have suspisious f103 boards!
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2021-09-13T20:56:00 < catphish> Steffann: i assume there are a LOT of designs with F103, and people are still willing to pay for them
2021-09-13T20:56:37 < kakium69> still making monys
2021-09-13T20:56:47 < catphish> it seems like i can't actually start a project at this point, since there's almost nothing available
2021-09-13T20:57:00 < kakium69> you can
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2021-09-13T20:57:46 < kakium69> btw. semiconductor prices will not get back to level they used to be
2021-09-13T20:57:59 < catphish> why not?
2021-09-13T20:58:25 < catphish> but it's not really prices that trouble me, just sane availability for IC selection
2021-09-13T20:58:32 < kakium69> they ran stuff with slim margins when everything were going smoothly
2021-09-13T20:59:24 < Steffann> nucleos etc are still available catphish ;)
2021-09-13T21:00:12 < catphish> Steffann: yeah, i do have nucleos, i could build a shield and start developing, means i can play with software at least, but not ideal
2021-09-13T21:01:12 < Steffann> But you've got to row with the oars you have
2021-09-13T21:01:18 < catphish> indeed!
2021-09-13T21:07:15 < fenugrec> just buy a fpga and synthesize a gd103
2021-09-13T21:07:27 < catphish> gd103 is open source?
2021-09-13T21:07:45 < fenugrec> no
2021-09-13T21:12:16 < catphish> i've found a chip that's available, hand solderable, and meets my needs, might as well buy a handful and design with what i can get :)
2021-09-13T21:13:51 < qyx> atmega8 you mean?
2021-09-13T21:15:33 < bitmask> damn EXEC_BAD_ACCESS ERRORS
2021-09-13T21:15:45 < Steffann> Better buy the fast before qyx buys them all catphish
2021-09-13T21:16:00 < kakium69> EXEC_BAD_ASS error
2021-09-13T21:16:18 < kakium69> let's see what mcus are available
2021-09-13T21:16:31 < bitmask> break time!
2021-09-13T21:16:33 < bitmask> what to do
2021-09-13T21:16:38 < bitmask> tv it is
2021-09-13T21:18:09 < fenugrec> msp430
2021-09-13T21:18:30 < fenugrec> digikey search, sort by "qt in stock". Interesting
2021-09-13T21:18:53 < kakium69> what is NXP K32 series
2021-09-13T21:22:59 < kakium69> it's probs from the merger with another company i don't remember what
2021-09-13T21:23:06 < kakium69> kinesis series chip or so
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2021-09-13T21:25:19 < catphish> impulse purchased: https://i.imgur.com/qti988K.png - hopefully will see me though the next couple of projects, as long as i don't need anything too fancy like usb :)
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2021-09-13T21:25:46 < fenugrec> hoarder
2021-09-13T21:25:59 < catphish> lol indeed
2021-09-13T21:27:02 < catphish> annoyingly i usually just throw excess ICs in the trash, including many STM32s i'm sure, that's probably a habit our society could do without
2021-09-13T21:27:54 < catphish> in any case, those ICs will be enough if i want to play with some EV CANBUS soon
2021-09-13T21:28:33 < qyx> https://jnavila.github.io/plotkicadsch/
2021-09-13T21:28:35 < qyx> very interesting
2021-09-13T21:32:05 < kakium69> will read
2021-09-13T21:32:26 < kakium69> catphish: is there shortage of canbus tranceivers?
2021-09-13T21:32:37 < kakium69> voltage regulators?
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2021-09-13T21:37:41 < catphish> kakium69: doesn't seem to be, for now
2021-09-13T21:39:11 < catphish> jlc have thousands of MCP2551, i didn't check voltage regulators, but there's bound to be something that'll work
2021-09-13T21:40:13 < kakium69> so problem is mainly to have stuff in exact flavour for now
2021-09-13T21:40:22 < qyx> yes there is
2021-09-13T21:40:32 < qyx> every single less retarted switching vreg is unavailable
2021-09-13T21:40:43 < kakium69> how about MLCC apocalypse?
2021-09-13T21:40:44 < qyx> the same applies to most CAN transceivers
2021-09-13T21:40:47 < kakium69> still ongoing?
2021-09-13T21:41:20 < qyx> catphish: mcp2551 is one of the more retarded
2021-09-13T21:41:52 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-13T21:42:05 < kakium69> but gets shit done if needed
2021-09-13T21:42:09 < catphish> qyx: i hadn't looked into the specifics of what i need, is there anything important other than speed?
2021-09-13T21:42:34 < fenugrec> separate Vcio and +5 supplies is nice
2021-09-13T21:42:36 < qyx> low power modes, voltage shifting/trabnslation, etc.
2021-09-13T21:42:37 < kakium69> power consumption
2021-09-13T21:42:57 < fenugrec> Split pin for filtering is another difference between otherwise nearly identical pinouts
2021-09-13T21:43:32 < catphish> one with a 3v3 supply would be nice
2021-09-13T21:43:41 < kakium69> use 5v micro
2021-09-13T21:44:33 < catphish> i do enjoy me some AVR8
2021-09-13T21:45:35 < kakium69> https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/microcontroller/32-bit-industrial-microcontroller-based-on-arm-cortex-m/32-bit-xmc1000-industrial-microcontroller-arm-cortex-m0/xmc1300/
2021-09-13T21:45:39 < kakium69> 5volt arm
2021-09-13T21:46:09 < catphish> that's fun
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2021-09-13T21:48:54 < catphish> MCP2551 will probably work fine with stm32 anyway, just an extra regulator needed
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2021-09-13T21:52:15 < catphish> s/probably //
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2021-09-13T22:29:44 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-13T22:30:01 < kakium69> it will do
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2021-09-14T03:03:30 < karlp> qyx: some of that https://jnavila.github.io/plotkicadsch/ is obsoleted by kicad 5.99 file improvements.
2021-09-14T03:03:32 < karlp> (not all)
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2021-09-14T14:08:55 < karlp> great, matplotlib plot.show(block=False) will let the plot (attempt) to show, and then gdb ctrl-c will still work, 
2021-09-14T14:09:05 < karlp> except the plto doesn't really show.
2021-09-14T14:09:09 < karlp> so. it's close.
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2021-09-14T14:18:37 < BrainDamage> if you don't need interactive plot, you could just output to a file
2021-09-14T14:18:48 < karlp> yeah, but then I've got to open it again.
2021-09-14T14:18:49 < BrainDamage> then you can debug stuff inbetween writes
2021-09-14T14:19:08 < karlp> this is for a "plot memory array" command in gdb
2021-09-14T14:19:12 < ventyl> IME pretty much all such plotting tools suck
2021-09-14T14:19:18 < karlp> it used to work, but I'm updating it to py3 and shits.
2021-09-14T14:19:18 < ventyl> especially gnuplot
2021-09-14T14:19:25 < karlp> it works with gdb on a native target
2021-09-14T14:19:32 < karlp> but fails with gdbserver 
2021-09-14T14:19:45 < karlp> something's not _quite_ right with someone's handling
2021-09-14T15:09:48 < jpa-> heh, analog devices buys maxim ic
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2021-09-14T15:20:46 < karlp> fuck me, used matplotlib to write a file, xdg-open to open it in the background. local gdb happily works, can have 3 prior images open, continue/ctrl-c work.
2021-09-14T15:21:09 < karlp> local gdb talkign to gdbserver, iamge displays, continue works, but ctrl-c now closes the image window.
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2021-09-14T15:21:12 < karlp> at least it breaks again though
2021-09-14T15:21:17 < karlp> this is at least _workable_
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2021-09-14T17:09:28 < BrainDamage> do you guys have a solution to hold pogo pin arrays that's not 3d printing a stand? I'm using a third hand tool but it's rather wobbly
2021-09-14T17:13:52 < englishman> cnc'd plexi?
2021-09-14T17:16:30 < jpa-> a pcb?
2021-09-14T17:20:25 < BrainDamage> i use a pcb to hold the pins together
2021-09-14T17:20:40 < BrainDamage> I mean to hold the pcb holding the pins
2021-09-14T17:21:14 < englishman> i sometimes use a hammond box
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2021-09-14T17:27:34 < jadew> BrainDamage, cloth wire clamp
2021-09-14T17:29:39 < jadew> does anyone know a good online resource for learning Chinese?
2021-09-14T17:35:53 < Steffann> Good.. duolingo and co arent so bad. But no idea if its any good for chinese. 
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2021-09-14T17:36:58 < jadew> I guess I'll try duolingo and see where that takes me
2021-09-14T17:38:01 < jpa-> why do you want to learn chinese?
2021-09-14T17:38:34 < jadew> preparing for the time when I need to say "ok boss." in chinese
2021-09-14T17:39:42 < jadew> it's a good idea to know chinese, given they're #1 in the world now
2021-09-14T17:39:52 < aandrew> I was playing with some learn chinese iphone app, mostly on the shitter. worked pretty good actually but I never went past the free trial
2021-09-14T17:40:08 < aandrew> I also want to learn chinese, if only to get better access to the chinese datasheets and resources
2021-09-14T17:40:26 < jadew> for datasheets you need to also learn the doodling
2021-09-14T17:40:49 < BrainDamage> you can use flashcards to learn the moonrunes
2021-09-14T17:40:58 < aandrew> "learn the doodling" ?
2021-09-14T17:41:06 < BrainDamage> anki is a popular choice
2021-09-14T17:41:08 < aandrew> I was focusing on the written
2021-09-14T17:41:26 < jadew> aandrew, ah, and is it not difficult?
2021-09-14T17:41:41 < aandrew> of course it is. it's a complex language with no alphabet
2021-09-14T17:42:11 < jadew> I'd be happy with just being able to have a phone conversation
2021-09-14T17:42:23 < aandrew> ah, yeah I'm less concerned about that
2021-09-14T17:42:25 < jadew> "when deliver chip?" type of thing
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2021-09-14T17:43:01 < aandrew> I have that pictograph book from bunny huang I think 
2021-09-14T17:43:25 < karlp> reading and talking chines are two very different things to learn...
2021-09-14T17:43:42 < jadew> BrainDamage, this? https://apps.ankiweb.net/
2021-09-14T17:44:23 < BrainDamage> jadew: yes
2021-09-14T17:44:38 < BrainDamage> for one, there's no standard spoken chinese
2021-09-14T17:45:05 < BrainDamage> there's 5, with share like 40, 20, 10, 5, 5
2021-09-14T17:45:40 < jadew> then I'd want to learn the chinese spoken in Schenzeng... I have no use for peasant chinese
2021-09-14T17:46:13 < jadew> Shenzhen - according to google
2021-09-14T17:47:18 < Steffann> Dont forget to learn spanish too
2021-09-14T17:47:27 < jadew> Why?
2021-09-14T17:47:36 < Steffann> Another big language ;)
2021-09-14T17:47:55 < jadew> All I need in spanish I already know: La quenta por favor!
2021-09-14T17:47:57 < Steffann> And you can trade/talk with latinas. I know you like yhis
2021-09-14T17:48:10 < jadew> I'm married, I only look :P
2021-09-14T17:53:38 < jadew> Looks like duolingo shows you the characters too
2021-09-14T17:54:29 < Steffann> And you can talk to it too, but its usually very bad. 
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2021-09-14T17:54:41 < Steffann> Or maybe its just because beginners level
2021-09-14T17:55:02 < BrainDamage> jadew: mandarin is the "standard", but in hong kong they speak cantonese
2021-09-14T17:55:22 < jadew> BrainDamage, any idea on how different they are?
2021-09-14T17:55:39 < jadew> which one do I learn? Duolingo only seems to have one: Chinese
2021-09-14T17:56:05 < karlp> written is ~same, spoken is different
2021-09-14T17:56:30 < karlp> but they'll understand you, just recognise you as differnt
2021-09-14T17:56:34 < karlp> you're going to be foreign anyway
2021-09-14T17:56:42 < karlp> using the wrong idioms isn't really going to be an issue....
2021-09-14T17:57:12 < jadew> I got 100% on my first lesson
2021-09-14T17:57:14 < jadew> hi hao!
2021-09-14T17:57:25 < jadew> ni hao
2021-09-14T17:57:27 < jadew> damn it
2021-09-14T17:57:32 < karlp> háo ba
2021-09-14T17:57:39 < karlp> wo xing palsson
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2021-09-14T17:58:05 < jadew> that's too advanced for me
2021-09-14T17:58:38 < Steffann> People say "hellochinese" is better for a a beginner it seems, but non freeish?
2021-09-14T17:58:59 < Steffann> -a
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2021-09-14T17:59:54 < jadew> I'll see how much I like duolingo
2021-09-14T17:59:57 < jadew> so far so good
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2021-09-14T18:08:58 < bitmask> damn pointers
2021-09-14T18:11:43 < karlp> man cube hal layers run deep
2021-09-14T18:16:51 < karlp> zyp: your cgit is ~busted, it reports https://git.jvnv.net/git/laks as a valid ref to clone, but it doesn't exist there...
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2021-09-14T18:23:12 < karlp> zyp: you dev-v2 branch, is that ~complete? what's it waiting on or you still hating on?
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2021-09-14T18:43:36 < Steffann> Dont you like being pointed at, bitmask?
2021-09-14T18:43:55 < bitmask> look at that sexy dude
2021-09-14T18:46:57 < karlp> zyp: how's the "bus" identifiers meant to handle split apb1 registers, like L4 has, with APB1ENR1 and APB1ENR2 ?
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2021-09-14T19:22:11 < mawk> it's time for my dutch class Steffann
2021-09-14T19:22:26 < mawk> het is tijd
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2021-09-14T19:28:00 < Steffann> De hoogste tijd
2021-09-14T19:29:30 < mawk> kleinste tijd
2021-09-14T19:31:48 < karlp> zyp: do you have any examples using the v2 stuff?
2021-09-14T19:37:32 < Steffann> No mawk:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOUgOKi5UPo
2021-09-14T19:38:43 < zyp> karlp, gonna check the git, probably broke it when we recently upgraded some stuff
2021-09-14T19:39:40 < zyp> dev-v2 is wip, wanted to instrument the coro task switch stuff which is what got me into the orbtrace stuff
2021-09-14T19:41:09 < zyp> L4 would probably get APB1_1 and APB1_2 or some shit, haven't looked at that yet
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2021-09-14T19:41:40 < zyp> I've got a coro_sandbox project using the v2 stuff
2021-09-14T19:42:03 < karlp> not on your cgit instance that I can see anywhere?
2021-09-14T19:42:20 < zyp> nope
2021-09-14T19:42:27 < zyp> just a local pile of mess
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2021-09-14T19:42:44 < karlp> I just got one thing figured out, env = SConscript('laks/build/env.py')
2021-09-14T19:42:51 < karlp> instead of the older style 
2021-09-14T19:42:51 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/eaeph
2021-09-14T19:42:59 < karlp> at least, that gets it to complain a bit further along
2021-09-14T19:43:08 < zyp> yes
2021-09-14T19:43:37 < karlp> your webserver gets pretty upset at something on https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/main.cpp too
2021-09-14T19:43:41 < karlp> most of the file is just blank
2021-09-14T19:44:45 < zyp> huh
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2021-09-14T19:45:39 < karlp> laks/i2c/i2c.h:5:10: fatal error: interrupt/interrupt.h: No such file or directory
2021-09-14T19:46:54 < zyp> you're wading into WIP that I haven't touched much in half a year :)
2021-09-14T19:47:14 < karlp> yeah, it sounded like a good idea :)
2021-09-14T19:48:38 < karlp> it's not runnign teh selectmcu stuff first..
2021-09-14T19:48:47 < karlp> it just jumps straight into trying to build
2021-09-14T19:48:59 < karlp> what's teh base Sconstuct foryour coro demo look like?
2021-09-14T19:49:26 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/u3QsL
2021-09-14T19:50:02 < zyp> it's a sandbox, so it's full of mess :)
2021-09-14T19:50:17 < karlp> that's ok
2021-09-14T19:50:47 < karlp> yeah, ok, it's just not generating interrupts first.
2021-09-14T19:53:19 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/GSL28 builds the rcc first ok, after a clean, but no irqs.
2021-09-14T19:54:15 < zyp> have you defined interrupts for WB?
2021-09-14T19:54:18 < karlp> eyah
2021-09-14T19:54:52 < zyp> how does the platform definition look?
2021-09-14T19:55:31 < karlp> just copied the f4 and modified a few fields, in theory...
2021-09-14T19:55:52 < karlp> laks/rcc/rcc_enums.h is generated,
2021-09-14T19:56:06 < karlp> and looks correct.
2021-09-14T19:57:21 < zyp> can you paste the platform definition?
2021-09-14T19:58:04 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/tree/v2-wb
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2021-09-14T19:58:51 < karlp> I've got to dash, can poke this later tonight
2021-09-14T19:59:42 < zyp> oh, wait, my bad
2021-09-14T20:02:14 < zyp> karlp, that should fix it: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=cb48652
2021-09-14T20:02:28 < zyp> it was forgotten along with uncommitted riscv changes
2021-09-14T20:03:29 < karlp> whee, built
2021-09-14T20:04:01 < karlp>    text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
2021-09-14T20:04:03 < karlp>     196     316       0     512     200 main.elf
2021-09-14T20:04:09 < karlp> laks is so lightweight ;)
2021-09-14T20:04:21 < zyp> if you're gonna play with this, I should probably add a few more fun pieces
2021-09-14T20:06:37 < zyp> … later
2021-09-14T20:06:47 < zyp> need to get the kid in bed first :)
2021-09-14T20:13:58 < srk> 24
2021-09-14T20:14:00 < srk> oop
2021-09-14T20:18:18 < bitmask> vulkan class version is finally working, time to finally learn more
2021-09-14T20:19:07 < bitmask> only 73 warnings :)
2021-09-14T20:26:07 < kakium69> "I'm going to do everything by the book"
2021-09-14T20:26:41 < kakium69> *mehs at endless warnings*
2021-09-14T20:31:20 < bitmask> :)
2021-09-14T20:31:57 < BrainDamage> ignoring warning is a well estabilished industry practice
2021-09-14T20:32:29 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/Up5LYsM.png
2021-09-14T20:33:29 < bitmask> thats all just for initialization 
2021-09-14T20:34:10 < kakium69> *code compiles without warnings*
2021-09-14T20:34:29 < kakium69> *starts checking if code actually compiled at all*
2021-09-14T20:35:12 < bitmask> error, line 1 of main()
2021-09-14T20:35:28 < kakium69> *enables all warnings - problem solved*
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2021-09-14T20:37:07 < bitmask> oh shit, i do have validation layer warnings/errors though, guess i should fix those first
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2021-09-14T20:38:34 < bitmask> hmm mem leak
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2021-09-14T20:47:23 < karlp> zyp: I'm probably insane but I'm getting realylshitty behaviour from some cube code, that I suspect is related to the amoutn of layers involved in one of the IRQs, and I _should_ just figure out that properly and fix it, but "just doing it by hand" has appeal...
2021-09-14T20:55:03 < emeb> Just do it by hand - eliminate all that useless HAL IRQ code.
2021-09-14T20:55:56 < emeb> probably make your code a helluva lot more efficient too...
2021-09-14T20:56:11 < kakium69> why would you use HAL IRQ code?
2021-09-14T20:57:18 < kakium69> vulkan on stm32 when?
2021-09-14T20:58:42 < bitmask> hah what? no on my laptop
2021-09-14T21:08:51 < karlp> emeb: only downside is having to re-implement the btle hci layer :|
2021-09-14T21:10:04 < emeb> karlp: so yeah - context is important here. all the times I've bypassed HAL crap it's been pretty minimal effort. This sounds like a different domain.
2021-09-14T21:13:45 < kakium69> brb>
2021-09-14T21:17:34 < Steffann> Now?
2021-09-14T21:18:18 < kakium69> no
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2021-09-14T21:19:04 < kakium69> now
2021-09-14T21:34:28 < kakium69> it's cold steff
2021-09-14T21:35:03 < Steffann> No, its perfect. 18 C
2021-09-14T21:37:06 < catphish> this chip shortage can really do one :(
2021-09-14T21:43:48 < Steffann> What you need today?
2021-09-14T21:45:29 < kakium69> 5C rain
2021-09-14T21:50:24 < catphish> Steffann: i'm just trying to come up with a combination of parta to communicate with canbus, and also drive 5v 20mA stepper motors, bonus points for a rotary encoder counter, stock is short in every aspect though, stm32 seems the most promising, shame it can't natively drive the motor
2021-09-14T21:51:00 < kakium69> in one project?
2021-09-14T21:51:04 < catphish> yes
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2021-09-14T21:51:48 < kakium69> EV?
2021-09-14T21:51:58 < catphish> yes
2021-09-14T21:52:12 < kakium69> why you need rotary encoder counter?
2021-09-14T21:52:23 < kakium69> standalone counter instead of mcu
2021-09-14T21:52:57 < karlp> emeb: well, one of the things I found after experimenting with rust, is that the HCI layer is actually pretty contained, and I've seen two references of how to do it now, so it might not be such a pain after all :)
2021-09-14T21:54:19 < emeb> karlp: nice
2021-09-14T21:55:27 < karlp> we'll see...
2021-09-14T21:55:30 < catphish> there are a few different things i'm trying to do here, but project #1 is to build a speedometer for classic vehicles (and EV converted ones, ideally with the same BOM), it should ideally accept input from GPS, pulse counter, or CAN to work out vehicle speed
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2021-09-14T21:55:52 < karlp> but the amout of layers in the hal dma/adc stuff was....gross and not tasty kool aid.
2021-09-14T21:56:24 < catphish> but the frustration here is that for every single part, i can't use the standard IC i'd want to, i have to see what id remotely available
2021-09-14T21:56:31 < catphish> *is
2021-09-14T21:58:25  * qyx ordered protos for 2 new devices
2021-09-14T21:59:02 < qyx> catphish: stspin no good?
2021-09-14T21:59:29 < qyx> or stm32 + SPI motor driver, there are some
2021-09-14T22:00:05 < qyx> or a simple ULN2803A
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2021-09-14T22:04:28 < catphish> ULN2803A == no stock :)
2021-09-14T22:04:35  * karlp spews at scons using system python not python from path and not picking up jinja from venv :|
2021-09-14T22:04:40 < catphish> like all sane parts
2021-09-14T22:05:03 < catphish> i'm seriously considering designing for through-hole, no shortages there
2021-09-14T22:05:26 < catphish> but just such a mess overall :'(
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2021-09-14T22:09:07 < kakium9000> darlingon  transistor array
2021-09-14T22:09:36 < kakium9000> 1997
2021-09-14T22:10:10 < kakium9000> soic-18
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2021-09-14T22:15:23 < qyx> not a single one uln2803a in stock?
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2021-09-14T22:20:07 < bitmask> looks like i switched to software at a good time
2021-09-14T22:44:40 < Steffann> No
2021-09-14T22:46:40 < catphish> uln2803a only seems to be available in through hole :)
2021-09-14T22:47:04 < kakium9000> is that really the only option for driving steppers?
2021-09-14T22:47:15 < kakium9000> or even sensible one
2021-09-14T22:48:09 < catphish> no
2021-09-14T22:48:44 < catphish> i was just replying to qyx's question, there are some others, and some are available, just requires going off the beaten track
2021-09-14T22:49:25 < catphish> this will do the job i think https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13080.pdf
2021-09-14T22:49:31 < kakium9000> is the stepper unipolar?
2021-09-14T22:50:22 < catphish> bipolar
2021-09-14T22:50:35 < kakium9000> then uln2803a is not even suitable?
2021-09-14T22:50:55 < catphish> why not? every pin can be 0v or +v
2021-09-14T22:51:12 < catphish> that means any pair can be driven in either polarity
2021-09-14T22:51:32 < catphish> *it's push-pull, right?
2021-09-14T22:51:34 < qyx> uln2803a is not totem pole
2021-09-14T22:51:37 < qyx> no
2021-09-14T22:51:41 < catphish> oh, then no :)
2021-09-14T22:52:23 < catphish> oh yeah, darlington collector, no good
2021-09-14T22:52:45 < catphish> this thing, with a datasheet from 1995 will probably do https://uk.farnell.com/rohm/ba6845fs-e2/ic-stepping-motor-driver-smd/dp/1511714?st=stepper
2021-09-14T22:53:25 < catphish> all it needs is 4 totem poles
2021-09-14T22:53:38 < kakium9000> or 4 half bridges
2021-09-14T22:53:46 < catphish> right
2021-09-14T22:55:00 < catphish> 4 half bridges is exactly what i need
2021-09-14T22:55:26 < Steffann> I'd just go with some trinamic thing. Especially since they are easy to get in the (china) 3d printer world.
2021-09-14T22:56:13 < Steffann> or whatever easy to get stepper drive in the 3d printer world.
2021-09-14T22:56:43 < catphish> in fact even a hex inverter would probably do the job here
2021-09-14T22:56:54 < Steffann> for prototyping there might even be some premade things for the nucleos.
2021-09-14T22:57:00 < Steffann> tarduino compatible.
2021-09-14T22:57:38 < catphish> is it legal to use logic gates as motor drivers?
2021-09-14T22:58:53 < kakium9000> yes but you cannot get 20mA
2021-09-14T22:59:21 < kakium9000> who was that guy on youtubes that does those flappy pcbs
2021-09-14T22:59:35 < kakium9000> that jump around and spin and stuff
2021-09-14T22:59:38 < Steffann> not just yt. also twatter
2021-09-14T23:00:20 < kakium9000> just to see his driver ics
2021-09-14T23:00:35 < Steffann> https://www.youtube.com/c/CarlBugeja/videos that one?
2021-09-14T23:01:46 < kakium9000> y
2021-09-14T23:02:25 < Steffann> Dont tell the guy uses msp430
2021-09-14T23:04:27 < kakium9000> so he found out that "haptic driver" ic is good for small currents
2021-09-14T23:04:43 < kakium9000> and cheap
2021-09-14T23:05:52 < kakium9000> package size may vary*
2021-09-14T23:06:14 < kakium9000> also work at very low voltages
2021-09-14T23:08:17 < kakium9000> https://www.mouser.fi/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/PAM8016AKR?qs=%252BEew9%252B0nqrCPtpXluBi24A%3D%3D no stock
2021-09-14T23:08:58 < kakium9000> it's categorized as "audio driver"
2021-09-14T23:10:00 < kakium9000> also package is not nicest to work with
2021-09-14T23:10:14 < kakium9000> but very inexpensive solution
2021-09-14T23:11:18 < catphish> is there a really simple IC that just does push-pull output at moderate current levels that matches its input?
2021-09-14T23:11:39 < catphish> literally just a digital amplifier, capable of 20ma
2021-09-14T23:12:32 < catphish> i guess it's called a buffer
2021-09-14T23:15:15 < kakium9000> it's called a buffer yes
2021-09-14T23:16:05 < kakium9000> digital buffers might have pretty fast output edges
2021-09-14T23:16:29 < catphish> 20mA is quite a lot it seems got digital stuff
2021-09-14T23:16:51 < catphish> i'll keep digging
2021-09-14T23:17:24 < kakium9000> consider it an adventure to engineering options
2021-09-14T23:18:45 < catphish> with that said, i think i already found the correct solution - https://uk.farnell.com/rohm/ba6845fs-e2/ic-stepping-motor-driver-smd/dp/1511714?st=stepper - so i'm good for now
2021-09-14T23:20:26 < kakium9000> it's a solid option
2021-09-14T23:20:33 < kakium9000> and available
2021-09-14T23:25:41 < Steffann> https://uk.farnell.com/trinamic/tmc2660c-pa/motor-driver-40-to-125deg-c/dp/3529991
2021-09-14T23:26:21 < Steffann> but yeah, you can also do it all yourself
2021-09-14T23:26:31 < kakium9000> price?
2021-09-14T23:26:45 < catphish> thats a lot of pins for one motor
2021-09-14T23:26:48 < Steffann> twice that of the "simple"  thing
2021-09-14T23:27:26 < Steffann> "mucho" current.. so quite a few pins are in parallel.
2021-09-14T23:27:30 < catphish> ah that one's for the table built in, in my case i actually prefer to write the drive table myself
2021-09-14T23:27:50 < catphish> because weird motors
2021-09-14T23:28:12 < catphish> ah most of the pins are doubled up
2021-09-14T23:28:29 < catphish> and it's got SPI, fancy!
2021-09-14T23:28:47 < catphish> probably overkill, but cool
2021-09-14T23:29:11 < catphish> oh, and current control too, that's for proper stepper motors :)
2021-09-14T23:29:36 < catphish> mine are just high impedance voltage driven things
2021-09-14T23:29:40 < kakium9000> it has all bells and whisles
2021-09-14T23:29:48 < catphish> it does indeed
2021-09-14T23:29:48 < kakium9000> 256step microstepping
2021-09-14T23:29:53 < kakium9000> load detection
2021-09-14T23:30:43 < Steffann> its just the first random trinamic driver in found on farnell 
2021-09-14T23:30:46 < Steffann> they have MANY
2021-09-14T23:31:44 < Steffann> they = trinamic, maybe not farnell
2021-09-14T23:32:01 < kakium9000> it's the go to when you want to update your 3d printer for more precision and speed and less sound
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2021-09-14T23:49:34 < Steffann> Yeah
--- Day changed Wed Sep 15 2021
2021-09-15T00:05:28 -!- freeworld [~vit@chello085216193138.chello.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-15T00:30:26 < bitmask> oh boy
2021-09-15T00:30:32 < bitmask> rotating textured square
2021-09-15T00:30:33 < bitmask> https://i.imgur.com/JyqZs9c.png
2021-09-15T00:38:21 < bitmask> SUM:                            Files: 34            Blank: 718            Comments: 257           Code: 1989 
2021-09-15T00:38:25 < bitmask> 2k lines for that
2021-09-15T00:45:33 < karlp> scons --enable-virtualenv explicitly is meant to support this, but doesn't
2021-09-15T00:49:33 < karlp> ahha, need to put scons in the venv too, or at least, that way works...
2021-09-15T00:53:30 < karlp> ah, that doesn't work for netbeans though. should just install jinja2 systemwide, forget about it...
2021-09-15T01:06:57 < bitmask> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/13/stranger-semen-injection/
2021-09-15T01:15:52 < Steffann> Thanks 
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2021-09-15T01:18:55 < jadew> "bizarre and disturbing" - that's a good description
2021-09-15T01:20:53 < jadew> glad I read the comments otherwise I would have missed this fact
2021-09-15T01:20:58 < jadew> his name is Stemen
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2021-09-15T01:43:13 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05IgfflAlIk
2021-09-15T01:45:36 < jadew> same "its own charge station network" bs
2021-09-15T01:45:54 < jadew> with charging stations in the fucking woods
2021-09-15T01:46:47 < karlp> zyp: what's the "right" way of putting in longer reserved sections in register structs? just an array?
2021-09-15T01:51:34 < karlp> and is "rcc_init()" expected to be "max" ?
2021-09-15T01:57:59 < mawk> what other than an array would you use karlp 
2021-09-15T01:58:18 < karlp> no ideas, c++ is magical :)
2021-09-15T02:00:06 < jadew> did you guys know there are industry legends on the eevblog forum?
2021-09-15T02:05:43 < karlp> zyp: you need a second rcc.h to have the prototypes in?  rcc.h is generated right now, but doesn't incldue the proto for rcc_init() ? 
2021-09-15T02:07:55 < karlp> I have a solution for it though...
2021-09-15T02:15:59 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/4374f0b6bd01e2810aae0a259c560a85adc8f135 should do right?
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2021-09-15T02:46:47 < sauce> for your periodic musicspam enjoyment i present slightly odd flutey prog rock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zM2uYS_9Y
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2021-09-15T08:28:26 < jpa-> https://github.com/vkoskiv/ruoste  finally rust is made readable
2021-09-15T09:28:25 < zyp> nice
2021-09-15T09:29:00 < zyp> karlp, probably workable enough, ideally I'd like to kill off rcc_init
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2021-09-15T10:49:08 < drzacek> Hello
2021-09-15T10:50:58 < drzacek> I want to transfer data via uart from one mcu to another. I am transmitting periodically at high baud, and data has variable length. Receiving with the HAL_UART_Receive_IT on the receiving end has failed me, I can't process interrupt for each single byte I receive. 
2021-09-15T10:51:36 < drzacek> not sure how to proceed. Surely this isn't something exotic and there are some standard approaches to this problem? Can someone point me to the right direction?
2021-09-15T10:53:28 < jpa-> use DMA
2021-09-15T10:57:16  * drzacek reads about DMA
2021-09-15T10:57:18 < drzacek> okay then
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2021-09-15T12:09:27 < Luminax> wouldn't something like SPI/I2C be faster? just my 20cents
2021-09-15T12:19:43 < zyp> SPI would, I2C wouldn't
2021-09-15T12:23:11 < jpa-> it's not definite that SPI would be faster either
2021-09-15T12:24:19 < jpa-> especially if you need bidirectional communication, capacitive cross-talk and SCK->MISO latency can severely limit SPI speed over longer cables
2021-09-15T12:25:57 < drzacek> maybe it would, but I think at those rates it doesn't really matter?
2021-09-15T12:26:17 < jpa-> what rates?
2021-09-15T12:27:24 < drzacek> I don't even want to use uart/spi/i2c at all, it just a test to check if the components are working, and get a comparison of how it works/how the thansfer times look like etc. Once I got the sensors etc working and see that other side can work with the data, I want to use different technology for transmission
2021-09-15T12:27:33 < drzacek> most likely lan/wifi
2021-09-15T12:27:58 < drzacek> jpa-, I'm at 500k baudrate right now, and sending <10 bytes right now 
2021-09-15T12:28:31 < jpa-> ok
2021-09-15T12:32:57 < zyp> oh, 500kbaud isn't really that fast
2021-09-15T12:34:54 < zyp> jpa-, no reason you couldn't run SPI bidirectionally
2021-09-15T12:35:11 < zyp> I mean, duplex
2021-09-15T12:38:26 < jpa-> true
2021-09-15T13:03:14 < Luminax> o.O well... yeah I sure didn't mention those two for long cable comms
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2021-09-15T13:36:56 < tct> so I´m looking at a 6-layer PCB layout with the stack being like this:   signal, power, signal, signal, GND, signal
2021-09-15T13:37:01 < tct> that is rather unusual, right?
2021-09-15T13:37:21  * karlp shrugs
2021-09-15T13:37:23 < tct> and we talk things like 166 MHz memory bus
2021-09-15T13:38:26 < jpa-> why do you consider it unusual?
2021-09-15T13:38:58 < jpa-> it is not significantly different from SGSSGS
2021-09-15T13:39:04 < zyp> that sounds like a perfectly normal 6L stackup
2021-09-15T13:39:24 < zyp> two reference planes with signals on both sides
2021-09-15T13:39:40 < tct> hmm, true
2021-09-15T13:39:49 < tct> this is why I came asking ;-)
2021-09-15T13:40:18 < jpa-> http://www.hottconsultants.com/techtips/pcb-stack-up-3.html
2021-09-15T13:41:40 < tct> hotconsultants.com :D
2021-09-15T13:41:53 < jpa-> hottest emc tips on the web
2021-09-15T13:47:28 < tct> thanks!
2021-09-15T13:48:05 < karlp> bleh, my pc sampling isnt doing anything anymore...
2021-09-15T13:48:12 < karlp> what am I likely to have left off...
2021-09-15T14:11:24 < mawk> henry ott
2021-09-15T14:14:57 < karlp> (enabling cycle counter is the answer)
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2021-09-15T14:43:31 < benishor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZgoFyuHC8&ab_channel=thejuicemedia
2021-09-15T14:45:20 < karlp> oops, zyp needs me to update: arm-none-eabi-g++: error: unrecognized command line option '-std=c++20' :)
2021-09-15T14:51:04 < zyp> :)
2021-09-15T15:16:54 < karlp> hrm, crashes on first function call inside main.
2021-09-15T15:17:00 < karlp> did I get the stack and memory wrong?
2021-09-15T15:26:45 < karlp> how are you meant to print the magic RCC objects now zyp? flash is easy... RCC... not?
2021-09-15T15:27:06 < karlp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/ih6ZK
2021-09-15T15:45:21 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/hobHz
2021-09-15T15:45:43 < zyp> it's a bit dumb, the nicer way didn't work
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2021-09-15T15:49:29 < zyp> the nicer way is an xmethod handler for the mmio_ptr object itself that'd make the object work as well as the traditional pointers, but it doesn't work when the mmio_ptr object itself is optimized out, and the whole point of it is to aid optimization
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2021-09-15T16:17:09 < karlp> the idea is that all th eperipherals convert to this typed mmioptr thing right, not the #ifdefd structs?
2021-09-15T16:18:26 < karlp> bleh, my system gdb that has python3 doesn't like the import
2021-09-15T16:18:48 < karlp> needs to have a .py ending apparently.
2021-09-15T16:19:24 < karlp> now what though, sourced that, "p RCC" ?
2021-09-15T16:21:08 < zyp> p $mmio_ptr(RCC)
2021-09-15T16:22:52 < karlp> p *$mmio_ptr(RCC) works better
2021-09-15T16:22:54 < karlp> ok, thanks. 
2021-09-15T16:22:57 < karlp> that's gross, but ok.
2021-09-15T16:23:15 < karlp> this is the price for not having ifdefd structs right?
2021-09-15T16:23:55 < zyp> no, the jinja templating is the price for not having ifdefed structs, this is an optimization thing
2021-09-15T16:24:29 < BrainDamage> replacing one template engine for anotherrr
2021-09-15T16:25:21 < karlp> what wasn't optimizing wit hthe raw structs before?
2021-09-15T16:25:25 < zyp> old style stored a pointer and casted addr to pointer in the constructor, this style stores uintptr_t and casts at deref
2021-09-15T16:26:06 < zyp> the pointer actually got emitted instead of folded
2021-09-15T16:26:30 < zyp> ah, no, wait, now I remember
2021-09-15T16:26:40 < zyp> reinterpret_cast is not constexpr
2021-09-15T16:26:56 < zyp> moving it out of the constructor allows constructor to be constexpr
2021-09-15T16:29:24 < karlp> ok.. so is it only usb that has got this new style? you have usart_stm32 in the f4 yaml file, but no gneeration based on that that I can see, no SConscript in the usart directory, nothing generated for it?
2021-09-15T16:30:20 < karlp> and looks like only dwc_otg at that.
2021-09-15T16:30:46 < zyp> interrupt controllers too
2021-09-15T16:30:56 < zyp> and rcc
2021-09-15T16:32:25 < zyp> but yeah, it's a WIP
2021-09-15T16:32:42 < karlp> right, but uart/adc/timers/flash/gpio are all still structs, and would need to be converted or just used as is...
2021-09-15T16:32:59 < zyp> a bunch of the changes are abstractions added to aid porting to risc-v, but the risc-v half isn't committed yet
2021-09-15T16:33:02 < zyp> yes
2021-09-15T16:34:35 < zyp> hmm, I have done the uart stuff as well, that's among the uncommitted stuff
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2021-09-15T16:36:15 < karlp> I thought you might have, as they're in the yaml files :)
2021-09-15T16:56:51  * karlp grumbles at the pll not being selected even though it says it's ready
2021-09-15T16:58:04 < catphish> someone just bought up the rest of the F334 that i was using in my design :D
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2021-09-15T17:00:44 < aandrew> yeah I grabbed 75 F411s in 49-ball 0.4mm pitch BGA when I saw them. not ideal package but shoudl work for me
2021-09-15T17:02:23 < catphish> i bought 5 F334 and 5 L451 which will do me for prototyping, but for once i'm designing something with an actual commercial customer in mind, so this is grossly imppractical :(
2021-09-15T17:02:30 < jpa-> the STM32 models that are still in stock must feel so dejected.. "Why doesn't anyone want me? Even STM32F103 is out of stock!"
2021-09-15T17:02:39 < catphish> lol
2021-09-15T17:02:42 < aandrew> hahaha
2021-09-15T17:02:46 < catphish> G0 seems to be well stocked
2021-09-15T17:02:48 < aandrew> I was surprised the F411 was there
2021-09-15T17:04:38 < catphish> perhaps i should rethink my CAN requirement and consider an external transceiver
2021-09-15T17:06:37 < drzacek> where you guys looking? last time I checked there was abundance of everything
2021-09-15T17:06:46 < Steffann> Desolder from some nucleos 
2021-09-15T17:06:49 < catphish> everywhere
2021-09-15T17:06:54 < Steffann> Or use a nucleo 
2021-09-15T17:07:04 < catphish> drzacek: if you have secret supplier, please spill the beans
2021-09-15T17:08:36 < drzacek> which one do you need?
2021-09-15T17:09:50 < catphish> well i've started designing with STM32F334K6 because it's what was somewhat available a few days ago and met my needs
2021-09-15T17:09:53 < drzacek> okay, so the f334 I see here are not available
2021-09-15T17:10:15 < catphish> but actually, almost ANY STM32 with CAN would be fine, ideally not ridiculously large
2021-09-15T17:10:30 < catphish> i mean, i prefer small legged ones that i can solder for prototyping
2021-09-15T17:11:14  * karlp turns on pllr _output_ bit so it can actually leave the pll and get to the sysclk mux...
2021-09-15T17:11:39 < catphish> but i'm now considering using an external CAN controller, to widen the choice of MCU
2021-09-15T17:11:44 < drzacek> okay so it got worse since I last checked
2021-09-15T17:11:56 < drzacek> checked the reichelt.de or mouser.de?
2021-09-15T17:12:12 < catphish> i'm primarily using mouser, cross checking with farnell (UK)
2021-09-15T17:12:24 < karlp> zyp: blinkenlaks: https://nc.beeroclock.net/s/Wgx5tjBboAFaCTo
2021-09-15T17:12:56 < catphish> mouser have 118 varieties of ST MCU in stock right now
2021-09-15T17:12:57 < drzacek> aw yiss, "expected delivery 13.07.2023" 
2021-09-15T17:13:30 < drzacek> there are some available right away, but those seem a bit more exotic to me, but what do I know, I only know f103 and f411
2021-09-15T17:14:08 < catphish> there are *some* that stand out as great choices - STM32L031G6U6 they have 5k+ in stock, and only around £2 each
2021-09-15T17:14:32 < catphish> but since that chip is QFN and has no CAN, it's not what i was looking for
2021-09-15T17:16:06 < catphish> well, i'll get on and build my prototype with what i have on my desk, and worry about production later
2021-09-15T17:17:06 < catphish> plenty of through-hole parts if you're into that kind of thing :D not STM32 though
2021-09-15T17:22:47 < karlp> you clearly didn't learn much catphish :)
2021-09-15T17:22:54 < karlp> they're not available until they're in your hot little hands
2021-09-15T17:23:36 < catphish> which side generated the SWD clock?
2021-09-15T17:23:40 < catphish> *generates
2021-09-15T17:24:08 < zyp> karlp, nice :)
2021-09-15T17:25:05 < karlp> so.... to bolt freertos on to laks as a "nice" thin hal,
2021-09-15T17:25:15 < karlp> or to go all in on zyp's coro world....
2021-09-15T17:25:48 < karlp> think I'm going to spin up a main loop first and try out my adc woes
2021-09-15T17:26:24 < aandrew> drzacek: what's STM32F411CE look like there
2021-09-15T17:26:25 < zyp> the coro stuff is cute but it's not that mature yet
2021-09-15T17:27:02 < zyp> as in, I've never used it in anything real yet, and the sandbox project got a bunch of uncommitted code still
2021-09-15T17:27:18 < drzacek> aandrew, gone
2021-09-15T17:28:40 < zyp> that said, there should be no issue doing both, you can schedule coros in a normal freertos thread
2021-09-15T17:28:57 < karlp> yeah, I'm inclinced to try and just drop freertos in.
2021-09-15T17:29:20 < karlp> probably need a little poking to hook up the irqs properly, 
2021-09-15T17:29:30 < drzacek> what's with alibaba/aliexpress?
2021-09-15T17:29:31 < karlp> but just goignt o hack something up now by hand to test out this adc a bit more.
2021-09-15T17:31:32 < karlp> this APB1ENR1 and APB1ENR2 is already giving me pain though actually
2021-09-15T17:35:37 < karlp> hrm, naming the buses APB1_1 and APB1_2 in yaml and then making the rcc_reg structs have APB1_1ENR and APB1_2ENR instead of the "classic" APB1ENR1 and APB1ENR2 from the refman works...
2021-09-15T17:38:41 < aandrew> drzacek: so no special secret source then :-)
2021-09-15T17:38:58 < drzacek> nope
2021-09-15T17:39:26 < aandrew> zyp: what are "coros" in this context?
2021-09-15T17:39:57 < jpa-> coroutines
2021-09-15T17:41:38 < aandrew> ah advanced CS shits
2021-09-15T17:44:00 < aandrew> it seems like freertos would easily handle that with two tasks. if they're the only two then you've essentially got a coroutine setup, and if there's more then adjusting priorities and/or adjusting the others to sleep on a semaphore that the coroutines don't release until they want something else to run
2021-09-15T17:47:36 < karlp> yeah, but the CS nerds like zyp and thorn like the c++ closure tasitcal optimzations that are nominally achievable with them.
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2021-09-15T17:59:36 < karlp> feature request for more naming: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/UOq5m :)
2021-09-15T17:59:47 < karlp> pretty cool that it complets just the one that is availabel though...
2021-09-15T18:03:15 < zyp> the advantages of coroutines over threads is that you don't need to worry about task stack allocation
2021-09-15T18:03:27 < karlp> zyp: ify ou show me what you did with the uart, I can maybe try converting shit like that, instead of expanding all the "legacy" stuff?
2021-09-15T18:03:32 < zyp> the disadvantage is that they are cooperative, not preemptive
2021-09-15T18:03:37 < zyp> sure
2021-09-15T18:05:59 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=dev_v2&id=9801227
2021-09-15T18:22:17 < karlp> that uart/uart.h has hard addresses in it, is that a generated file for the f4 then?
2021-09-15T18:22:30 < karlp> (I've added "this is generated" to all the generated files so I can keep track of them better )
2021-09-15T18:24:13 < zyp> oh, fuck, did I commit a generated file
2021-09-15T18:24:19 < zyp> yup, my bad
2021-09-15T18:24:47 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/laks/commit/26895ef9a05ce8544faf8ae9b0559369af7caf4d
2021-09-15T18:24:52 < karlp> for instance :)
2021-09-15T18:25:06 < zyp> I've been meaning to move to a separate build dir so it's easier to gitignore temporaries like that
2021-09-15T18:25:18 < karlp> just more -I mangling though.
2021-09-15T18:25:44 < karlp> you could generate them all in a laks/ dir though, so the includes become easier to follow what they come from...
2021-09-15T18:26:45 < zyp> then again I'm planning to move to modules as soon as gcc-arm-embedded releases a version supporting that
2021-09-15T18:26:57 < zyp> gcc10 left out that part of c++20 :)
2021-09-15T18:27:10  * karlp doesn't even know what "modules" are.
2021-09-15T18:27:14 < karlp> sounds unncessary :)
2021-09-15T18:27:31 < zyp> .cpp/.h unification
2021-09-15T18:28:11 < zyp> it'll solve a lot of bullshit and any ambiguity of whether something goes in .cpp or .h
2021-09-15T18:28:49 < zyp> everything goes into .cppm, which results in what's effectively both an object file and a precompiled header
2021-09-15T18:37:16 < karlp> sounds like it will be alot harder to integrate with boring old C stuff :)
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2021-09-15T19:11:15 < karlp> zyp: scons help? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/6i9PP results in dmamux.h having just dmamux stuff, but dma.h has both dma1,dma2 and _also_ dmamux again, ?
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2021-09-15T19:14:26 < karlp> hrm, better stash that real quick if I want to work on dma myself :)
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2021-09-15T20:24:13 < kakium69> hello dear
2021-09-15T20:37:16 < bitmask> hello babe
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2021-09-15T20:55:46 < Steffann> Yo brothers 
2021-09-15T21:10:38 < zyp> karlp, you're appending to the list, rendering the template, appending more stuff and rendering again to a different file
2021-09-15T21:11:07 < zyp> I suggest just skipping line 18 and letting everything render into dma.h
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2021-09-15T21:16:48 < guanche> Hi, how can I make openocd to open the ports to listen to GDB? I'm trying to debug a bluepill
2021-09-15T21:17:52 < PaulFertser> guanche: openocd does that by default
2021-09-15T21:18:10 < guanche> but I don't see any "listening on port XXX" message?
2021-09-15T21:18:17 < guanche> when openocd starts up I mean
2021-09-15T21:22:01 < guanche> I got it, thanks
2021-09-15T21:23:00 < bitmask> why is it so hard to make a dr appt
2021-09-15T21:25:03 < PaulFertser> guanche: what was the problem?
2021-09-15T21:27:25 < guanche> that I wasn't using gdb because I thougth the ports weren't open PaulFertser, haha
2021-09-15T21:27:58 < PaulFertser> guanche: but why OpenOCD didn't print that it opened the ports? Probably you're using an older version?
2021-09-15T21:28:55 < guanche> probably I don't know, it doesn't show any message of it opening, but if I launch telnet and gdb it works PaulFertser 
2021-09-15T21:29:07 < PaulFertser> guanche: and what version is that?
2021-09-15T21:29:14 < guanche> I'm not used to openocd, so I can't really tell other than my version number
2021-09-15T21:29:17 < guanche> let me check
2021-09-15T21:29:37 < guanche> 0.10.0 PaulFertser 
2021-09-15T21:29:51 < PaulFertser> guanche: ah, that's rather old by now. 0.11.0 was released a year ago.
2021-09-15T21:30:03 < PaulFertser> guanche: so probably 0.10.0 didn't print that message about gdb port back then.
2021-09-15T21:30:15 < guanche> ah, I think I installed it through pacman (msys on windows), probably
2021-09-15T21:33:28 < PaulFertser> Hm, I thought I've sent an updated to msys2 when 0.11.0 was released.
2021-09-15T21:34:37 < guanche> I can see PaulFertser, thanks, I'll update it now
2021-09-15T21:36:43 < PaulFertser> Yes, I have: https://github.com/msys2/MINGW-packages/commit/76a7a9911b101504cbe77320e64b9888d755a969
2021-09-15T21:36:44 < guanche> well, now it doesn't run
2021-09-15T21:37:50 < PaulFertser> guanche: use some pastebin show the log along with the invocation line etc
2021-09-15T21:38:14 < guanche> the thing is not even help works, it just returns. echo $? shows 127 
2021-09-15T21:40:33 < guanche> https://pastebin.com/raw/HygZT4Mt
2021-09-15T21:41:33 < PaulFertser> guanche: probably you need other libraries updated too.
2021-09-15T21:42:02 < guanche> I'll have a look a openocd's dependencies
2021-09-15T21:42:04 < PaulFertser> libusb, libftdi, hidapi
2021-09-15T21:44:30 < guanche> that worked, thanks PaulFertser 
2021-09-15T21:46:02 < PaulFertser> guanche: does it print gdb port now too?
2021-09-15T21:46:38 < guanche> yes PaulFertser, like outputs I can see out there
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2021-09-15T21:47:40 < PaulFertser> guanche: ok, cool. I'm glad people are using msys2, I wasn't sure if I'm not wasting the time on that (as I'm not using windows myself at all)
2021-09-15T21:49:04 < guanche> sure PaulFertser, thanks. I'm not a windows user myself, but my laptop died, bought a new one with EFI, which I haven't had time to master so I got stuck on windows so far, haha
2021-09-15T21:49:20 < guanche> the first thing I looked for was for msys
2021-09-15T21:49:26 < PaulFertser> guanche: EFI is still better than BIOS ...
2021-09-15T21:49:48 < guanche> I know, but hand't had time to see how it works, to install and manage linux with it, etc
2021-09-15T21:49:53 < PaulFertser> guanche: and "bug.n"? ;)
2021-09-15T21:50:02 < guanche> what's that? haha
2021-09-15T21:50:15 < PaulFertser> Tiling window manager for windows
2021-09-15T21:50:42 < guanche> how nice, I'm looking at it on github, didn't know about it, thanks!
2021-09-15T21:51:01 < PaulFertser> guanche: you just boot a GNU/Linux installer _in EFI mode_, then install as usual, it copies the bootloader to EFI system partition, and the bootloaders for the other OSes are still kept and available there.
2021-09-15T21:52:05 < guanche> yes, but when I bougth it EFI support wasn't that spread, and apparently there were people not being able to install linux on some, so I just installed msys on windows
2021-09-15T21:52:40 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, whats the name of tiling wm for windows?
2021-09-15T21:52:46 < PaulFertser> guanche: when you bought it 10 years ago?
2021-09-15T21:52:48 < guanche> then I got into writing a type-library processor, and all the little free time I had, I've been spending it on that
2021-09-15T21:52:49 < mouseghost> oh, that bug.n?
2021-09-15T21:52:51 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: bug.n
2021-09-15T21:53:05 < mouseghost> looks so weird
2021-09-15T21:53:14 < guanche> no, like three years ago, but I said, I know nothing about EFI because I just haven't got into it
2021-09-15T21:54:00 < guanche> probably by February next year I'm gonna have some spare time, then I plan to get rid of windows here
2021-09-15T21:55:06 < guanche> besides, that I don't use to run distros, but to compile the whole thing since linux from scratch was born
2021-09-15T21:55:12 < guanche> haha, a little die hard
2021-09-15T21:55:50 < guanche> well, all minus inkscape and firefox, which I've compiled just once
2021-09-15T21:56:26 < PaulFertser> guanche: Gentoo should be inspiring enough for you
2021-09-15T21:57:31 < guanche> haha, or arch linux, which seems similar for what I've read
2021-09-15T21:58:54 < guanche> I'm so used to it, and to have the system and directories' hierarchy to my taste, without any package management, than it would be more time-consuming learning a distro than the way I do it
2021-09-15T21:59:05 < PaulFertser> guanche: nope, not at all. And arch linux forces you to update all the system in sync as its versioned dependencies are rather weak.
2021-09-15T21:59:22 < guanche> ah, well, haven't read much about it either to be honest
2021-09-15T22:02:43 < guanche> what's the best method to debug a device which is not enumerating properly? I've downloaded USBView, but doesn't give me too much info on the subject
2021-09-15T22:03:27 < zyp> it's hard to do with software only, generally the interesting information doesn't make it through the host controller
2021-09-15T22:03:32 < zyp> you want a bus analyzer
2021-09-15T22:03:41 < guanche> I can see `usbd_poll' being called, oh, I guess this question is more for libopenocm3, which is what I'm using
2021-09-15T22:04:11 < guanche> I can't see anything wrong in my code, which I copied from a github
2021-09-15T22:05:50 < bitmask> hehe https://youtu.be/KyCXdf1332U
2021-09-15T22:08:35 < PaulFertser> guanche: I suggest to use fully known code first, verbatim.
2021-09-15T22:09:46 < PaulFertser> guanche: using libopencm3 on blue pill, but old version: https://github.com/paulfertser/stm32-tx-hid
2021-09-15T22:13:00 < guanche> hey thanks PaulFertser, I'll try it now
2021-09-15T22:13:09 < kakium69> bitmask: something is wrong
2021-09-15T22:13:15 < bitmask> yup
2021-09-15T22:13:21 < bitmask> or is it?
2021-09-15T22:13:34 < kakium69> ye
2021-09-15T22:14:05 < srk> looks like art
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2021-09-15T22:16:29 < kakium69> some translation went wrong
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2021-09-15T22:18:11 < bitmask> my indices are fukd, easy fix one sec
2021-09-15T22:20:28 < Steffann> too late.
2021-09-15T22:21:14 < PaulFertser> guanche: btw, don't be lazy and solder the usb connector on blue pill properly before you break it off mechanically.
2021-09-15T22:28:57 < englishman> good advice
2021-09-15T22:29:21 < Steffann> Hows your latest esp32 project englishman?
2021-09-15T22:29:24 -!- Steffann is now known as Steffanx
2021-09-15T22:29:37 < englishman> i havent touched it in a while :(
2021-09-15T22:29:56 < englishman> i was drawing some lissajous then burned something i think
2021-09-15T22:33:23 < guanche> thanks PaulFertser, I didn't happen to think that could be a problem
2021-09-15T22:33:58 < PaulFertser> guanche: all bluepills I saw had mounting holes without solder, so really easy to rip off the connector.
2021-09-15T22:35:02 < guanche> I know usb works because I've been tracing up to certain functions, but yes, just to make sure I'm going to solder it properly to ensure good connection
2021-09-15T22:38:17 < PaulFertser> guanche: so does my binary enumerate?
2021-09-15T22:38:51 < guanche> haha, haven't yet got there PaulFertser, but it probably does
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2021-09-15T23:47:06 < bitmask> holy fuck this shit is hard to debug
--- Day changed Thu Sep 16 2021
2021-09-16T00:07:54 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/eGFyexNYYiw
2021-09-16T00:14:44 < aandrew> bitmask: no idea what I'm looking at there
2021-09-16T00:15:16 < bitmask> learning vulkan so im following some tutorials, just finished loading of obj models and displaying them
2021-09-16T00:15:28 < aandrew> what did the bug look like
2021-09-16T00:15:34 < bitmask> oh, one sec
2021-09-16T00:15:40 -!- PaulFertser [paul@paulfertser.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-09-16T00:15:52 < bitmask> https://youtu.be/KyCXdf1332U
2021-09-16T00:17:33 < aandrew> oh wow
2021-09-16T00:17:37 < aandrew> how did you fix it
2021-09-16T00:17:40 < bitmask> heh
2021-09-16T00:18:05 < bitmask> one thing was using 16 bit floats and another was using 32 bit, just changed a 16 to 32 and all is well
2021-09-16T00:18:40 < bitmask> i got lucky, the tutorial has a comments section and someone had the same issue :)
2021-09-16T00:19:19 < zyp> karlp, I committed and pushed all the uncommitted stuff I had sitting around
2021-09-16T00:21:14 < karlp> cheers.  I got timers and some adc stuff done, but that dma/dmamux double thing got me stuck there.
2021-09-16T00:21:29 < karlp> and adc is curently stuck waiting on calibration :|
2021-09-16T00:21:35 < karlp> missing something simple I'm sure :9
2021-09-16T00:21:54 < karlp> there's no platform yamls for l0 and f3 and shit though, so currently kinda left that off :)
2021-09-16T00:22:07 < zyp> check that you don't have to turn on power in syscfg or something :)
2021-09-16T00:22:14 < zyp> yeah, nbd
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2021-09-16T00:22:52 < zyp> I'll cherry pick your stuff later and can fill in missing pieces as I go
2021-09-16T00:23:41 < karlp> no sweat, I'm force-pushing to that v2-wb branch as I go with some stuff at the moment, but most of its pretty little.
2021-09-16T00:24:12 < karlp> I could probably have just put dma and dmamux in different directories, but it seemed like it should also work in one.
2021-09-16T00:24:36 < zyp> put it all together, no need to keep that separate
2021-09-16T00:25:00 < zyp> ideally organization should become less stm32-centric
2021-09-16T00:25:29 < karlp> well, only reason to have it in a separate dir would be to fix whatever's wrong with jinja/scons
2021-09-16T00:25:59 < zyp> I commented on that further up, you're appending to a list, generating, appending more and generating again
2021-09-16T00:26:08 < karlp> ah sorry, only just sat down at the computer
2021-09-16T00:26:19 < zyp> and IMO the right solution is to just drop dmamux.h and have it instance DMAMUX in dma.h
2021-09-16T00:26:28 < zyp> no need to keep those in separate files
2021-09-16T00:27:21 < karlp> that sounds reasonable enough to me, 
2021-09-16T00:27:30 < karlp> I have that code in a branch I didn't push, can try that tomorrow.
2021-09-16T00:28:00 < zyp> that effectively means you just drop line 18 and leave the rest
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2021-09-16T00:29:39 < zyp> if you wanted to actually generate those as separate files, you'd copy lines 3-6 to around line 19 or so to empty the lists after the first file was generated
2021-09-16T00:30:23 < karlp> those ar eline numbers in the sconscript right?
2021-09-16T00:30:33 < zyp> line numbers from your paste
2021-09-16T00:30:34 < karlp> I definitely suspected appending, just couldn't figure out which bits were doing it.
2021-09-16T00:31:46 < zyp> also, 17:37:16 < karlp> sounds like it will be alot harder to integrate with boring old C stuff :)
2021-09-16T00:31:52 < zyp> that's not really true
2021-09-16T00:32:39 < zyp> you can still mix and match .cppm and .cpp/.h, and it's not like you can just include a C++ header in C directly
2021-09-16T00:33:41 < zyp> including C headers shouldn't be an issue, and making the good old extern "C" headers to let C code call C++ shouldn't be an issue either
2021-09-16T00:34:28  * karlp has no idea!
2021-09-16T00:34:40 < zyp> idk either
2021-09-16T00:35:15 < zyp> I messed around with the experimental support in clang a few years ago, and that was pretty experimental, I think the mechanisms around everything changed a bunch since then :)
2021-09-16T00:37:35 < karlp> how do your gdb plugins work compared to what you gave me this afternoon?
2021-09-16T00:38:16 < zyp> the stuff I gave you earlier is the same code I just committed
2021-09-16T00:39:04 < zyp> and then I already had committed the xmethods stuff that doesn't work because gdb is dumb
2021-09-16T00:40:15 < karlp> so none of that xmethods stuff works? is that meant to do it automatically?
2021-09-16T00:41:31 < karlp> whew, /me is reading gdb docs and it's going a bit over my head :)
2021-09-16T00:41:34 < zyp> yeah, the xmethods stuff lets you use operator* and operator-> directly from gdb, and it works if you make the instances non-constexpr so the compiler actually emits them to memory
2021-09-16T00:42:19 < zyp> but the whole point of mmio_ptr is to optimize that out, since the p-member is a compile time constant that can be folded
2021-09-16T00:43:18 < zyp> gdb still knows the value of the p-member, which is why the $mmio_ptr() function works, but since the instance itself is optimized out it refuses to invoke xmethods on it
2021-09-16T00:43:44 < zyp> I assume it's because the optimized instance doesn't have a this-value
2021-09-16T00:45:13 < zyp> I tried digging in the gdb source to see if I could work out how the lookup worked and patch it to invoke the xmethods anyway, but I didn't get anywhere with that before I got distracted by something else :)
2021-09-16T00:46:21 < zyp> IMO it should be possible to have gdb handle that sanely, because the xmethods themselves are happy as long as they can get the value of the p-member, they don't need the this-value
2021-09-16T00:47:33 < zyp> I'll revisit that later, but even if I managed to work that out and get a fix upstreamed, the workaround would have to stick around until the fixed version is mainstream :)
2021-09-16T00:49:59 < zyp> with that said, it might be possible to make a prettyprinter that at least allows printing it nicely
2021-09-16T00:54:19 < karlp> this afternoon I was motivated to work on it a bit tonight, but struggling with the girls to get them to bed has killed that good and proper
2021-09-16T00:54:58 < zyp> that happens :)
2021-09-16T01:00:07 < mawk> automate that away
2021-09-16T01:00:15 < mawk> make a robot-karlp to put them to sleep
2021-09-16T01:00:38 < mawk> that screams "GO TO SLEEP" in icelandish and makes a 19kHz mosquito noise until they are detected in their beds
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2021-09-16T02:01:53 < karlp> lol
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2021-09-16T03:03:04 < karlp> schweet, freertos running with laks.
2021-09-16T03:03:07 < karlp> that wasn't so bad...
2021-09-16T03:42:21 < karlp> https://github.com/karlp/l2-simple/commit/107346e1db4cdbd20b53f42aac5b680786ffc069 for anyone playing at home...
2021-09-16T03:45:17 < karlp> zyp: is there any trick to get https://github.com/karlp/l2-simple/blob/main/main.cpp#L251 to inline? objdump seems to imply it has an explict branch there.
2021-09-16T03:45:28 < karlp> not a big deal in the scheme of things though...
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2021-09-16T07:02:48 < steve__> karlp what hal are you using there?
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2021-09-16T08:48:09 < zyp> karlp, compiler would need to have access to the code for inlining
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2021-09-16T08:52:30 < zyp> or I guess you could have freertos give the functions the correct symbol names, i.e. the mangled ones
2021-09-16T08:53:09 < zyp> bit ugly to have to do the translation manually, but should work the same as giving it any other C symbol name
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2021-09-16T11:51:22 < zyp> karlp, I'm looking through your changes now
2021-09-16T11:52:06 < zyp> the linker script has a .bootinfo section that gets placed at the start of ram, so if you want to share memory with the bootloader you can just stick it in that section rather than tweaking the offset
2021-09-16T12:00:48 < karlp> zyp: yeah, I don'ðt mind you not pulling that bit, if anything it's a reminder to revisit it when I re-add the ST OTA bootloader support.
2021-09-16T12:01:19 < karlp> but for laks-app, yeah, putting it in .bootinfo shoujld be perfectly sufficient.
2021-09-16T12:01:47 < zyp> also, here's some stuff I did a couple of years ago: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=stm32wb
2021-09-16T12:02:03 < zyp> I think you already did most of it except the ipcc
2021-09-16T12:03:43 < karlp> heh, I'd completely forgotten you did that too.
2021-09-16T12:04:02 < karlp> I found another bt stack last night that supprots ~shit heaps, and amongst others is stm32wb via the st LL drivers
2021-09-16T12:04:23 < karlp> so now I've got three reference implementations of how to run the HCI layer, I reckon it's ok to toss cube now :)
2021-09-16T12:04:33 < zyp> :
2021-09-16T12:04:35 < zyp> :)
2021-09-16T12:04:47 < karlp> (I would have remembered if you'd pushed your branches earlier ;)
2021-09-16T12:05:19 < zyp> yeah, I should get better at committing and pushing early
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2021-09-16T12:10:14 < zyp> here's another from the same pile: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/commit/?h=nrf52
2021-09-16T12:35:57 < karlp> bleh, dma1/dma2: ~2uA/MHz.  ok. but dmamux (required to be used with it): 4uA/MHz.  that's quite a step up :)
2021-09-16T12:44:26 < zyp> hah
2021-09-16T12:44:51 < zyp> which MHz though?
2021-09-16T12:46:55 < karlp> no idea. presumably AHB1, as DMA1, DMA2 and DMAMUX are all there together
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2021-09-16T15:09:24 < karlp> now... repeat after me, if your peripheral doesn't work on stm32, and you're new to this, what are you most likely to have forgotten to do?
2021-09-16T15:10:52 < PaulFertser> RCC?
2021-09-16T15:11:02 < karlp> "turn on the clocks" but yes,
2021-09-16T15:11:17 < karlp> in this case, newer parts with the second clock sel regs.
2021-09-16T15:11:23 < karlp> RCC peripherals independent clock configuration register
2021-09-16T15:11:36 < karlp> for some things, those default to something useful
2021-09-16T15:11:46 < karlp> for my adc it defaulted to: 00: No clock selected
2021-09-16T15:12:01 < karlp> so the registers all work and respond, it just didn't do anything :)
2021-09-16T15:38:28 < englishman> that’s what you get for not using STM32CubeMX Code Generation Tool
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2021-09-16T16:31:55 < karlp> shush you.
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2021-09-16T17:23:32 < kakium69> covid69
2021-09-16T17:27:43 < karlp> zyp: I'm not goign to try and convert gpio, there's f1 and nrf and shit there, and I'm not sure what you want to do with the methods in the .h file, so I've jsut gone "old style" for adding wb.
2021-09-16T17:36:22 < zyp> yeah, don't worry about that
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2021-09-16T17:52:40 < karlp> I've rebased a lot and cleaned up again in that tree though :)
2021-09-16T17:53:11 < karlp> I've tried to put things that are less volatile at the beginning though.
2021-09-16T17:53:58 < karlp> dma and timers are working, in that the data is getting dma'd, but my dma interrupts aren't firing now.
2021-09-16T17:54:11 < karlp> timer interrupts did though so I've probably got a typo or something :)
2021-09-16T17:57:18 < karlp> or, you know, just completely left out enabling the interrupt...
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2021-09-16T18:25:23 < zyp> :)
2021-09-16T18:29:51 < emeb> haha - went to the logs and clicked down the recursive libera/libera/libera/... rabbit hole.
2021-09-16T18:33:40  * karlp peers at jpa.
2021-09-16T18:34:54 < karlp> zyp: speaking of weird web things, that cgit instance of yours is still not really previewing long files? https://cgit.jvnv.net/cardio/tree/main.cpp for instance?
2021-09-16T18:35:23 < karlp> zyp: remind me again, volatile in c++20 will do ~nothign like what I expect it to be doing?
2021-09-16T18:36:21 < upgrdman> is an SSR the simple/reliable way to drive a load that may be AC or DC?
2021-09-16T18:42:33 < zyp> volatile in c++20 is like before, but you get warnings when you use operators like |=
2021-09-16T18:42:47 < zyp> i.e. everything but plain assignments are obsoleted
2021-09-16T18:43:39 < zyp> to emphasize the fact that the read and write are non atomic, so you've got no guarantee that the variable doesn't change between the read and write halves of the operation
2021-09-16T18:45:53 < karlp> hrm, shouldn't be the isssue then.  I've got "simple" code like https://paste.jvnv.net/view/4WDm8
2021-09-16T18:46:11 < emeryth> upgrdman: not all SSRs can switch DC
2021-09-16T18:46:25 < karlp> and i've used that sort of thing before on L1 w/ libopencm3, and I can use gdb to set the variable and select which sample of the adc buffer to grab each time.
2021-09-16T18:46:41 < zyp> that should work fine
2021-09-16T18:47:10 < karlp> but for some reason if I select channel 3 or 4, I get this sort of shit: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/2uVDQ.png
2021-09-16T18:47:18 < karlp> and it's like kindex never goes back to zero.
2021-09-16T18:47:36 < karlp> at 5khz sampling, a 1k buffer should be wrapping 5 times a second
2021-09-16T18:47:47 < karlp> but it still leaves old data from another channel 
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2021-09-16T18:52:16 < karlp> like, wat: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/O2pr7 it goes back to 923?!
2021-09-16T18:53:00 < zyp> wat
2021-09-16T18:54:26 < zyp> you shouldn't even see it be 1024, since you're breaking at the ISR entry
2021-09-16T18:58:18 < karlp> yeah, wat indeed...
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2021-09-16T19:02:44 < karlp> any sneaky tips on writing out less than 32bits via ITM stimulus ports?
2021-09-16T19:02:51 < karlp> is just a union the accepted c++ way?
2021-09-16T19:02:58 < zyp> probably same trick as for the uart
2021-09-16T19:03:29 < zyp> also, > 1024 is wrong
2021-09-16T19:03:38 < zyp> should be >= 1024 or > 1023
2021-09-16T19:04:15 < zyp> and I guess the weird behavior might be the compiler seeing you're accessing past the end of the buffer and going «fuck that, I can do what I want then»
2021-09-16T19:04:48 < karlp> this is what I get for not bothering to copy the array_len macro from somewhere else...
2021-09-16T19:05:38 < zyp> ah, no, I'm dumb
2021-09-16T19:05:47 < zyp> kdata[1024] is kindex :p
2021-09-16T19:06:27 < zyp> not even the compiler fucking you, just writing past the end of the buffer
2021-09-16T19:06:39 < karlp> gah
2021-09-16T19:06:42 < karlp> thatmakes so much more sense
2021-09-16T19:06:59 < karlp> yeah, beautiful now.
2021-09-16T19:07:13 < karlp> added union stubs to your ITM shit I stole out of your sandbox works great.
2021-09-16T19:07:19 < karlp> much better bandwidth now :)
2021-09-16T19:07:33 < karlp> and fiddled the oocd config to actually speed up again after some flash op dropped down
2021-09-16T19:07:41 < karlp> and new fw seems to do 4MHz now too.
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2021-09-16T19:19:46 < catphish> does atmega have a sexy pin planning tool like stm32 cube?
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2021-09-16T19:49:07 < karlp> fuck I love being able to overload functions with different params in c++
2021-09-16T19:56:28 < jpa-> done with rust already?
2021-09-16T19:57:16 < karlp> yeah, last week.
2021-09-16T19:57:25 < karlp> too much pain to do simple things, even if some neat things were neat.
2021-09-16T19:57:57 < karlp> curently peering at WB's ADC and wondering why I'm not getting better data.
2021-09-16T20:01:01 < karlp> like, internal temp sensor is doing this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gfXbQ.png
2021-09-16T20:01:20 < karlp> and that's after disabling tickless idle, turning off all leds, shouldn't be any variable power consumption.
2021-09-16T20:03:45 < karlp> vrefint is pretty shit too, which probably explains it. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DUvKa.png
2021-09-16T20:04:05 < karlp> I expect that sort of variation from experience on L1, but only if current draw is actually changing meaningfully.
2021-09-16T20:04:23 < karlp> not really expecting that on a nucleo with no leds on, no radio, no power saving modes turned on.
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2021-09-16T20:06:17  * karlp wonders whether the other cpu is trying to do something silly
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2021-09-16T20:20:05 < zyp> karlp, I had jon look at cgit and it seems like lighttpd is somehow fucking up when it gets a too large cgi response, but he couldn't figure out how, so he just turned off syntax highlighting
2021-09-16T20:20:40 < zyp> we've been planning to do something about the git hosting anyway, maybe just moving everything to github, so screw spending too much time trying to fix the old setup
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2021-09-16T20:47:20 < zyp> karlp, also, are you planning any more force pushing to your laks branch, or can I just start merging stuff?
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2021-09-16T21:03:54 < mawk> zyp: my colleagues removed my force push rights
2021-09-16T21:03:58 < mawk> because I did it too much
2021-09-16T21:04:00 < zyp> aww
2021-09-16T21:04:29 < mawk> why are you using lighttpd
2021-09-16T21:04:36 < mawk> btw cgit is a project done by zx2c4
2021-09-16T21:04:39 < mawk> the same guy as wireguard
2021-09-16T21:04:47 < mawk> it's pretty cool
2021-09-16T21:04:53 < mawk> but it's minimalist; have you looked at gitlab???
2021-09-16T21:06:50 < mawk> zyp: 
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2021-09-16T21:07:24 < zyp> yeah, but I'm not sure there's a benefit from self hosting really
2021-09-16T21:07:48 < mawk> benefit = not being the little sex slave of Microsoft Corporation
2021-09-16T21:08:02 < zyp> meh
2021-09-16T21:08:06 < mawk> also at a time when github wasn't free, the benefit was private repos
2021-09-16T21:08:21 < mawk> and if you have a team, then you still have benefits with self-hosting
2021-09-16T21:08:26 < zyp> only reason I'm self hosting is because I've been doing that since before github were around
2021-09-16T21:08:31 < mawk> you can have your own org with all the features that github pro offers, for free
2021-09-16T21:08:44 < Steffanx> FREE
2021-09-16T21:08:46 < mawk> yes
2021-09-16T21:08:47 < mouseghost> theres also atlassian
2021-09-16T21:08:49 < Steffanx> Gratis.
2021-09-16T21:08:54 < mawk> mouseghost: that's far from free
2021-09-16T21:09:00 < mouseghost> i thought they had 5 free repos?
2021-09-16T21:09:01 < mawk> yes Steffanx 100% gratis
2021-09-16T21:09:03 < mawk> kostlos
2021-09-16T21:09:05 < mouseghost> private
2021-09-16T21:09:07 < mawk> ah maybe mouseghost 
2021-09-16T21:09:15 < mawk> but everyone here has PTSD from bitbucket
2021-09-16T21:09:20 < mawk> so nobody uses it for their own usage
2021-09-16T21:09:24 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-16T21:09:27 < zyp> but whatever, not gonna mess around with that now
2021-09-16T21:09:40 < mouseghost> tbh you dont really need anything to host a copy of the repo in git/hg so..
2021-09-16T21:09:52 < mouseghost> theres also srht
2021-09-16T21:09:55 < mouseghost> but i prefer cgit front
2021-09-16T21:10:01 < mawk> nobody uses mercurial
2021-09-16T21:10:03 < mawk> yes use cgit
2021-09-16T21:10:08 < mawk> do not use srht or whatevr that is
2021-09-16T21:10:11 < mawk> support my friend jaso
2021-09-16T21:10:11 < mawk> n
2021-09-16T21:10:15 < mouseghost> json?
2021-09-16T21:10:30 < mouseghost> mawk, the wg guy is your friend?
2021-09-16T21:10:37 < mouseghost> i kinda use mercurial, its pretty cozy
2021-09-16T21:10:49 < mawk> not like real friend, but I talked to him before
2021-09-16T21:11:01 < mouseghost> irl?
2021-09-16T21:11:02 < mawk> I know his address
2021-09-16T21:11:05 < mawk> no
2021-09-16T21:11:12 < mawk> but I've been in front of his house once
2021-09-16T21:11:15 < mawk> by accident, I'm not a stalker
2021-09-16T21:11:26 < mouseghost> right......
2021-09-16T21:11:38 < mawk> I was walking in paris, and I saw the street sign when looking up
2021-09-16T21:11:41 < mawk> and it was his street
2021-09-16T21:11:52 < mouseghost> street of jason?
2021-09-16T21:11:53 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-16T21:11:55 < mawk> yes
2021-09-16T21:12:10 < mawk> it's because I contributed a bit to wireguard, his main project
2021-09-16T21:12:17 < mouseghost> oh
2021-09-16T21:12:33 < mouseghost> i wanted to get some stickers or a postcard from jason, but he never replied
2021-09-16T21:12:39 < Steffanx> Awh
2021-09-16T21:13:02 < mouseghost> but i dont blame him
2021-09-16T21:13:11 < Steffanx> I know the address of the guy that knows Jason's address. You can send him  a postcard 
2021-09-16T21:13:18 < mouseghost> wireguard is very, very, very, very awesome
2021-09-16T21:13:31 < mouseghost> will he send me one back?
2021-09-16T21:13:41 < Steffanx> Idk. Will you mawk?
2021-09-16T21:13:50 < mawk> send the email again mouseghost 
2021-09-16T21:13:55 < mawk> he sends them all the time
2021-09-16T21:13:55 < mouseghost> oh!!!
2021-09-16T21:14:04 < mouseghost> do you think hed send a postcard?
2021-09-16T21:14:10 < mawk> I don't know
2021-09-16T21:14:11 < mawk> but a sticker yes
2021-09-16T21:14:16 < mawk> maybe a postcard yes
2021-09-16T21:14:23 < mawk> if you say "I know mawk" maybe
2021-09-16T21:14:26 < mouseghost> he sends them for free, right?
2021-09-16T21:14:53 < mawk> yes
2021-09-16T21:15:07 < mouseghost> owo!!!
2021-09-16T21:15:20 < mouseghost> wireguard is awesome indeeeed
2021-09-16T21:15:25 < mouseghost> ive used it multiple times
2021-09-16T21:15:31 < mawk> I ported it to android 10 when it came out
2021-09-16T21:15:33 < mouseghost> maybe i should also write a guide on how to use it
2021-09-16T21:16:48 < Steffanx> Ohno. Should I remove the app now, mawk?
2021-09-16T21:17:13 < mouseghost> Steffanx, too late
2021-09-16T21:17:54 < Steffanx> :(
2021-09-16T21:19:37 < mawk> :(
2021-09-16T21:20:01 < mawk> I did only adaptations to make the kernel driver work on android 10 Steffanx 
2021-09-16T21:20:04 < mawk> not the userspace driver
2021-09-16T21:20:16 < Steffanx> Ah
2021-09-16T21:21:23 < mouseghost> mawk, in adnroid or wg tree?
2021-09-16T21:28:23 < mawk> wg tree mouseghost 
2021-09-16T21:28:26 < mawk> are you trying to stalk me?
2021-09-16T21:28:34 < mouseghost> nah
2021-09-16T21:28:40 < mouseghost> just asking out of curiosity
2021-09-16T21:28:44 < mawk> it was at the time the wg kernel driver wasn't in mainline linux
2021-09-16T21:28:54 < mawk> so it was a .ko object we compiled and loaded at runtime
2021-09-16T21:29:14 < mawk> hmm no actually
2021-09-16T21:29:22 < mawk> you needed to modify your ROM to add the kernel driver
2021-09-16T21:29:27 < mawk> so, recompile the kernel of your android phone
2021-09-16T21:29:38 < mawk> perfect for showing to your friends how great a hacker you are
2021-09-16T21:30:04 < mawk> but then someone added support for the runtime loading thing
2021-09-16T21:32:51 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-16T21:32:52 < mouseghost> complicated
2021-09-16T21:32:57 < zyp> karlp, merged all your stuff with a few changes: https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/log/?h=dev_v2
2021-09-16T21:33:03 < mouseghost> i do have lineage os and thats about it
2021-09-16T21:33:04 < mouseghost> had*
2021-09-16T21:33:06 < mouseghost> now i have iphone
2021-09-16T21:34:03 < zyp> I fixed the APB1_1 stuff properly, removed that four byte memory offset, renamed the union members to u32/u16/u8 and did some other minor fixups
2021-09-16T21:36:41 < mawk> you don't like std::uint8_t and stuff zyp ??
2021-09-16T21:40:03 < zyp> I like u32/u16/u8 over w/h/b
2021-09-16T21:41:59 < Fleck> ok so, my old problem, vecstate says it's busfault...
2021-09-16T21:44:44 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/epeduruqok.shell
2021-09-16T21:47:10 < zyp> which chip is this?
2021-09-16T21:48:02 < Fleck> h743VIT6
2021-09-16T21:50:22 < zyp> I'm not sure what to trust in your paste, but it looks like it crashes during a malloc() call
2021-09-16T21:50:32 < zyp> have you configured the heap correctly?
2021-09-16T21:52:08 < Fleck> well, before I tried malloc endlessly, never crashed, just started to return NULL when mem was full, but still working, if that answers your q.
2021-09-16T21:54:23 < zyp> before what? what did you change to make it crash? :)
2021-09-16T21:54:44 < Fleck> before... another day
2021-09-16T21:56:08 < qyx> wait what
2021-09-16T21:56:18 < qyx> are you mallocing in isr?
2021-09-16T21:56:37 < Fleck> not me as you can see... HAL functions ;)
2021-09-16T21:57:07 < qyx> is it in an rtos env?
2021-09-16T21:57:22 < qyx> is their malloc even tjread safe?
2021-09-16T21:57:44 < zyp> no, it's not
2021-09-16T21:58:20 < zyp> at least the stacked PSR has IPSR=0, but I'm not 100% sure IPSR is stacked
2021-09-16T21:59:08 < Fleck> no rtos
2021-09-16T21:59:26 < mawk> are you calling hal functions yourself in the isr Fleck? 
2021-09-16T21:59:38 < mawk> or is it an hal isr that does it
2021-09-16T21:59:50 < zyp> but when gdb is talking about corrupt stack, I'd be careful not to read too much into unreliable information
2021-09-16T22:00:33 < zyp> Fleck, is this crashing randomly or deterministic every time?
2021-09-16T22:01:53 < zyp> if you actually are mallocing from an ISR, you might hit an ISR while other code is also mallocing or freeing with the heap metadata in an inconsistent state
2021-09-16T22:02:52 < Fleck> randomly, seems like, before this crash was working for ~2 weeks, this time ~5 days
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2021-09-16T22:19:10 < mawk> answer the questions Fleck 
2021-09-16T22:19:14 < mawk> we have the means to make you talk
2021-09-16T22:19:32 < zyp> okay, that might actually be the issue then
2021-09-16T22:20:47 < zyp> crashing once every few days is a plausible symptom for a malloc race
2021-09-16T22:23:25 < qyx> what did misra teach you
2021-09-16T22:23:42 < mawk> how to ignore warnings with inline comments
2021-09-16T22:23:46 < Fleck> mawk: I am not, I am however using 3rd party libs, but, txtsearching for malloc, I don't get leads...
2021-09-16T22:24:04 < mawk> so you left the default HAL ISRs
2021-09-16T22:24:08 < mawk> that in turn call your callbacks
2021-09-16T22:24:19 < mawk> the callbacks for peripheral events run in ISR you have to remember it
2021-09-16T22:24:32 < Fleck> yees
2021-09-16T22:24:34 < mawk> also some things will call malloc under the hood, for instance printf
2021-09-16T22:24:47 < mawk> for %f
2021-09-16T22:24:52 < mawk> and other stuff
2021-09-16T22:25:23 < Fleck> meh
2021-09-16T22:26:52 < Fleck> and String var; ... var = String(...); ?
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2021-09-16T23:27:03 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/udilazewix.md << I understand this correctly, RAM_D2 is used for heap and stack?
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2021-09-16T23:27:17 < Fleck> if so, RAM_D2 seems to be full of stuff
--- Day changed Fri Sep 17 2021
2021-09-17T00:17:56 < bitmask> wellll i just bought a few c++ books, i gotta up my game
2021-09-17T00:21:12 < specing> a few?!
2021-09-17T00:22:36 < bitmask> yup
2021-09-17T00:23:10 < bitmask> Effective C++ 3rd Ed by Scott Meyers
2021-09-17T00:23:10 < bitmask> Effective Modern C++ by Scott Meyers
2021-09-17T00:23:10 < bitmask> C++ Coding Standards by Sutter
2021-09-17T00:28:00 < mouseghost> sutek in polish is a nipple
2021-09-17T00:30:17 < bitmask> just bought another :P
2021-09-17T00:30:18 < bitmask> Exceptional C++ by Sutter
2021-09-17T00:30:25 < bitmask> $7 shipped
2021-09-17T00:30:35 < bitmask> theres one more im considering then im done
2021-09-17T00:50:58 < zyp> karlp, fixed gpio as well
2021-09-17T00:56:36 < specing> oh, $7 books
2021-09-17T01:04:03 < aandrew> https://ibb.co/tQS72H9 put some shelving up. There's a lot of stuff going up there, trying to get some of my floor space back
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2021-09-17T11:17:34 < c10ud> does anyone have 100x stm32f205rgt6 to sell?
2021-09-17T11:21:19 < c10ud> or, do you know if fakes are actually ok to use? seems ali only offers fake ARM 32f205
2021-09-17T11:24:12 < zyp> try?
2021-09-17T11:24:57 < c10ud> if you have genuine i would prefer it very much
2021-09-17T11:25:14 < zyp> nobody has :)
2021-09-17T11:26:10 < c10ud> you know, sometimes a reel in a drawer...
2021-09-17T11:29:58 < zyp> true, if you asked for stm32l052r8t6 I could help you out
2021-09-17T11:33:39 < sauce> i got a few dozen f103 of dubious origin $50 each take it or leave it
2021-09-17T11:34:00 < Steffanx> Deal. 
2021-09-17T11:34:10 < Steffanx> I have some monopoly money left.
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2021-09-17T12:29:59 < karlp> zyp: nice, looks good thanks.  you merged even my latest latest stuff with the rawest commit messages :)
2021-09-17T12:30:29 < karlp> I was going to default gpio to v2 as well, fuck all that vertical expansion in yaml
2021-09-17T12:30:41 < karlp> nice solution to the APB1_1 shits
2021-09-17T12:31:40 < karlp> zyp: I'll rebase everything on dev_v2 and keep on from there.
2021-09-17T12:31:44 < zyp> :)
2021-09-17T12:33:02 < karlp> today's plan is try an f3 and f4 board, see what vrefint looks like....
2021-09-17T12:33:25 < karlp> but yeah, lightttpd, what year is it? 
2021-09-17T12:33:31 < karlp> nginx to glory
2021-09-17T12:33:58 < zyp> shit's been running since before nginx became popular and we never bothered switching
2021-09-17T12:35:02 < zyp> but we recently threw traefik in front of it and containerized half the services, so lighttpd is just serving legacy stuff until it all is containerized
2021-09-17T12:35:22 < zyp> and that's probably when we broke git over http as well
2021-09-17T12:42:19 < karlp> aandrew: yeah, those little hook rail shelving shits have always been pretty gross and flimsy to me.  not surprised you bent them.
2021-09-17T13:05:19 < Steffanx> What kind of little hook rail shelving shits karlp. The single rail/slot edition?
2021-09-17T13:06:57 < karlp> this shits: aandrew | https://ibb.co/tQS72H9 put some shelving up
2021-09-17T13:07:17 < karlp> because later: https://twitter.com/akohlsmith/status/1438674738658828288
2021-09-17T13:10:27 < Steffanx> Aha
2021-09-17T13:11:48 < Steffanx> I never managed to do that, had shelves like that for years. Decades. And the only thing that bends is the shelve itself. 
2021-09-17T13:12:37 < Steffanx> But then the rails are almost from floor to roof. And I don't use the bottom of the rail/slots like that
2021-09-17T13:12:49 < Steffanx> Top. Roof. Whatever
2021-09-17T13:14:34 < karlp> eh, I've never installed them myself, but I've removed multiple bent/broken ones like that
2021-09-17T13:20:57 < Steffanx> But yeah, what the guy on twatter says 
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2021-09-17T13:39:50 < karlp> I decded that there was no real chance I would ever _really_ reconfigure heights of shelves, so I just used proper steel brackets and put them in place.
2021-09-17T14:05:24 < karlp> zyp: is there a magic $mmio_ptr thing to allow _setting_ in gdb?
2021-09-17T14:05:31 < karlp> >>> set ITM->TER[0] = 3
2021-09-17T14:05:33 < karlp> Attempt to take address of value not located in memory.
2021-09-17T14:06:07 < karlp> >>> set *$mmio_ptr(ITM)->TER[0] = 3  doesn't complain, but also doesn't do anything...
2021-09-17T14:06:24 < karlp> ooh set $mmio_ptr(ITM)->TER[0] = 3 worked.
2021-09-17T14:11:53 < karlp> wtf, my trace is gone again
2021-09-17T14:12:04  * karlp reads scrollback. what did I miss now?!
2021-09-17T14:12:35 < karlp> ahh right, no, it's openocd master being busted
2021-09-17T14:38:10 < jpa-> luls, UK is moving from kg back to lbs and ounces :D
2021-09-17T14:38:50 < jpa-> and their government considers that as one of the *benefits* they get from brexit
2021-09-17T14:56:20 < zyp> wat
2021-09-17T15:02:08 < BrainDamage> I feel like at this point the uk gov is brainstorming ideas about what could bring back the "good old times" and randomly picking one
2021-09-17T15:02:31 < BrainDamage> how soon until they try to attempt colonialism back?
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2021-09-17T16:44:08 < karlp> good days: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/m1bzW
2021-09-17T16:49:22 < aandrew> Steffanx: yeah I've used this kind of shelving ofr years too, it's cheap but I think the 24" wide shelves are too much for it
2021-09-17T16:50:04 < aandrew> I'm gonna sister three vertical rails together (I have three 2x6s sistered on each side) plus another two 2x6s along the long side of the shelf
2021-09-17T16:50:10 < aandrew> that should help it
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2021-09-17T17:21:14 < karlp> wiggle vrefint on f3 disco, caused by the leds on the board: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/bcloe.png
2021-09-17T17:21:54 < karlp> turning off tickless idle and the leds gives me ~flat vrefint on f3 board.  apart from all those weirdarsse glitches, 
2021-09-17T17:22:07 < karlp> I suspect that's actualyl trace corrupton from the old firmware on that f3 board.
2021-09-17T17:28:45 < karlp> and vrefint on WB, at the same scale (120 adc counts) running the same code. :| https://bin.jvnv.net/file/ZTkUI.png
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2021-09-17T17:40:53 < karlp> zyp: f3 with adc/dma/timers/gpios in https://github.com/karlp/laks/tree/karl-top1 now
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2021-09-17T17:43:12 < zyp> :)
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2021-09-17T21:21:08 < karlp> poking L1 now, because it's mechical,
2021-09-17T21:21:12 < karlp>     mcu: !re stm32(?P<family>..)(?P<variant>..).(?P<mem>.)
2021-09-17T21:21:32 < karlp>  is only capturing a single char for the memory field,
2021-09-17T21:21:57 < karlp> gonna need more than that, to handle L1's -A and -X suffixed parts....
2021-09-17T21:22:12 < karlp> I'm currently just yolo'ing and saying it only works for the new ones...
2021-09-17T21:22:36 < karlp> likewise, L1 has different interrupt lists for bigger parts.
2021-09-17T21:23:09 < karlp> I don't know how to handle that, and am also just yolo'ing for the density parts I use :)
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2021-09-17T21:26:02 < zyp> yeah, that's fine, perfect is the enemy of good, etc, can make it more elaborate later on
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2021-09-18T02:10:06 < machinehum> Does anyone know of a decent Linear single cell battery charger + Gas gauge + PMIC?
2021-09-18T02:10:31 < machinehum> I like the ADP5360, but it's in a little bitty package
2021-09-18T02:40:36 < Steffanx> qyx ^ 
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2021-09-18T03:07:20 < machinehum> I'm not going anywhere
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2021-09-18T08:56:29 < qyx> machinehum: I only used max1555 and mcp73831/2, I could say the mcp part was okish for the price
2021-09-18T08:57:20 < qyx> and the only battery gauge I had no problems except races (holding SDA low) was stc3100
2021-09-18T08:57:41 < qyx> iirc PaulFertser used stc3105 and experienced the same problem
2021-09-18T08:59:00 < qyx> then there are those BQ parts, I used some, they have retarded protocols, some half assed smbus + dataflash read/write + a bunch of others things
2021-09-18T08:59:53 < qyx> and for liion -> 1V8 I am using tps62825(18)
2021-09-18T09:01:13 < qyx> other chargers were switching, bq25713 or whatever was it, bq25720, but those are not primarily single cell either
2021-09-18T09:13:36 < PaulFertser> No, wasn't me.
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2021-09-18T10:01:50 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTMgX1PDGAE
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2021-09-18T15:49:14 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuNPDjF2GAQ
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2021-09-18T16:01:41 < jadew> shit... ebay fees are 16% now
2021-09-18T16:03:13 < jadew> scratch that, 19% with the currency conversion fee
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2021-09-18T20:58:27 < bitmask> hi
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2021-09-18T21:20:02 < Steffanx> Lo
2021-09-18T21:20:12 < emeb_mac> mid
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--- Day changed Sun Sep 19 2021
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2021-09-19T00:57:48 < kakium69> Bohemian Rhapsody was good Stef
2021-09-19T01:00:45 < kakium69> 7.9/10 imdb and 94% google likes
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2021-09-19T02:42:09 < Steffanx> No thanks 
2021-09-19T02:42:20 < Steffanx> I dont like this actor kakium69 
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2021-09-19T19:15:11 < Steffanx> Hm
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2021-09-19T19:35:52 < jpa-> "you know what daddy? all your circuits are very boring. they should have more short-circuits and explosions."
2021-09-19T19:47:30 < Steffanx> Your kid speaks english already jpa-?
2021-09-19T19:49:10 < jpa-> better than you speak finnish ;)
2021-09-19T19:49:48 < Steffanx> Ei ei.
2021-09-19T19:50:08 < jpa-> juupas
2021-09-19T19:51:04 < Steffanx> Hah, is seems he speaks better english than google translate speaks finnish.
2021-09-19T19:51:08 < Steffanx> Cant translate that.
2021-09-19T19:53:11 < jpa-> inflections, the magical finnish encryption scheme
2021-09-19T19:55:10 < Steffanx> So will you make him a capacitor popper?
2021-09-19T19:55:11 < Steffanx> Jacob's ladder ?
2021-09-19T19:55:18 < jpa-> nope
2021-09-19T19:55:33 < jpa-> i'm sure a boring childhood will make him more creative
2021-09-19T19:56:53 < Steffanx> Is he old enough to mess around with electronics yet? Even when there is electricity involved?
2021-09-19T19:57:28 < Steffanx> "i'm sure a boring childhood will make him more creative" .. lol. poor kid.
2021-09-19T19:58:01 < Steffanx> Time to kick him out and see how creative he gets?
2021-09-19T19:58:08 < jpa-> probably would be fine with current limited power supply, but so far haven't done anything on that front
2021-09-19T19:59:16 < Steffanx> He'll figure out how to disable the current limit faster than you think.. if he's a smart as his dad. :P
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2021-09-19T19:59:28 < Steffanx> or smarter
2021-09-19T19:59:56 < jpa-> probably
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2021-09-19T20:00:11 < jpa-> in all electronics games the favourite part is making components catch fire
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2021-09-19T20:00:25 < Steffanx> Yes, is bitmask's work on fire yet?
2021-09-19T20:00:33 < jpa-> it is
2021-09-19T20:00:39 < bitmask> ?
2021-09-19T20:04:09 < Steffanx> Jpa-: You're much cheerful today. Is one of those boring Sundays again?
2021-09-19T20:04:22 < jpa-> yes
2021-09-19T20:04:57 < Steffanx> Aw
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2021-09-19T20:30:27 < catphish> well, i finished my design, and it doesn't use an stm32 :o
2021-09-19T20:34:12 < Steffanx> esp32?
2021-09-19T20:36:43 < mawk> 100% analog
2021-09-19T20:36:45 < mawk> like in 1990
2021-09-19T20:36:59 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiBX-ESFDF0 sunday mosics
2021-09-19T20:37:32 < Steffanx> pass
2021-09-19T20:38:13 < kakium69> don't like voice of Gwen?
2021-09-19T20:38:37 < catphish> Steffanx: AVR8, it's always there, like a warm blanket when you get stuck
2021-09-19T20:39:40 < Steffanx> Isnt the SAMwhatever family available as well?
2021-09-19T20:39:49 < Steffanx> id rather use than than AVR.
2021-09-19T20:40:27 < catphish> i'm actually using a new AVR, seems a little more competent, but only 8 bit
2021-09-19T20:41:07 < kakium69> new AVR 8bits are the shit
2021-09-19T20:41:14 < kakium69> so much more torque
2021-09-19T20:41:18 < kakium69> so very modern
2021-09-19T20:41:23 < kakium69> peripherals
2021-09-19T20:41:42 < kakium69> atmel studio so cozy
2021-09-19T20:42:09 < catphish> i haven't tried them yet, the one wire debug / programming looks cool
2021-09-19T20:43:10 < catphish> otherwise, nothing special, but available, which suits me nicely, had to use an SPI CAN interface though
2021-09-19T20:43:29 < kakium69> AVR / SAM debugger is must
2021-09-19T20:43:41 < kakium69> it's like 60 or 80eur
2021-09-19T20:44:06 < catphish> software? hardware? both together?
2021-09-19T20:44:12 < kakium69> hardware
2021-09-19T20:44:15 < kakium69> software is free
2021-09-19T20:45:03 < catphish> i was a little confused by the new UPDI, it appears to just be a UART, and people program them with USB UART cables, but i'm guessing that won't work with atlel's software?
2021-09-19T20:45:54 < catphish> i assume you're talking about ATMEL-ICE? looks like it's probably worth getting
2021-09-19T20:46:05 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-19T20:46:30 < kakium69> and ofc usb-uart wont work with atmel studio
2021-09-19T20:46:33 < catphish> £116 british dollars though :(
2021-09-19T20:46:51 < kakium69> there is board only version
2021-09-19T20:46:57 < Steffanx> hmm, i recall it used to be much cheaper
2021-09-19T20:47:02 < kakium69> me too
2021-09-19T20:47:13 < kakium69> under huntrett dolards
2021-09-19T20:47:22 < Steffanx> yeah
2021-09-19T20:47:36 < kakium69> board only version was under fiftti
2021-09-19T20:47:38 < catphish> maybe this https://uk.farnell.com/microchip/atatmel-ice-basic/debugger-atmel-arm-avr-basic-kit/dp/2407172
2021-09-19T20:48:01 < Steffanx> i my mind it was more like 50ish
2021-09-19T20:48:03 < Steffanx> but.. idk
2021-09-19T20:48:18 < catphish> that's not a board, that's the full thing just without accessories
2021-09-19T20:48:35 < kakium69> the wire harness is worth the extra moneys
2021-09-19T20:49:03 < kakium69> oh wow
2021-09-19T20:49:05 < kakium69> price is up
2021-09-19T20:49:13 < catphish> sure looks like it
2021-09-19T20:49:15 < kakium69> definitelly
2021-09-19T20:49:17 < catphish> inflation innit
2021-09-19T20:49:24 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-19T20:49:37 < kakium69> it will be 2000dollards in 1year
2021-09-19T20:49:40 < kakium69> better buy now
2021-09-19T20:49:41 < catphish> £118 + VAT, gay
2021-09-19T20:50:00 < mawk> register a shell company, skip the VAT
2021-09-19T20:50:28 < catphish> actually, the person paying for this project is already VAT registered, he can buy it for me :)
2021-09-19T20:50:56 < catphish> why no chinese clones yet :(
2021-09-19T20:51:08 < Steffanx> oh lol, the only SAM with CAN (SAMC21) isnt available either.
2021-09-19T20:51:14 < Steffanx> the other SAMs are
2021-09-19T20:51:22 < catphish> yeah, i gave up on MCU with CAN
2021-09-19T20:52:07 < kakium69> infineon XMC1300
2021-09-19T20:52:33 < kakium69> it will be fun. try it
2021-09-19T20:52:37 < catphish> ooo 5V ARM
2021-09-19T20:52:42 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-19T20:52:53 < kakium69> 1100 / 1300 is 5V arm yes
2021-09-19T20:53:00 < kakium69> 4000 series is not
2021-09-19T20:53:08 < mawk> for when you need that extra power consumption
2021-09-19T20:53:28 < kakium69> as if you are going to step down from 5v
2021-09-19T20:53:33 < kakium69> anyways
2021-09-19T20:53:57 < mawk> my battery is 3.4V
2021-09-19T20:54:09 < catphish> lol, in my case i'd be using a linear regulator to throw away the other 1.7V anyway
2021-09-19T20:54:50 < kakium69> low Iq linear regulator right?
2021-09-19T20:55:15 < catphish> the only thing that's low Iq is mw
2021-09-19T20:55:17 < catphish> *me
2021-09-19T20:55:48 < catphish> but no, i'm powering this from a car, i don't care how much power i burn :)
2021-09-19T20:56:16 < kakium69> EV car right
2021-09-19T20:56:21 < catphish> yes
2021-09-19T20:56:37 < catphish> but i don't think my MCU will have much impact on battery life
2021-09-19T20:56:52 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-19T20:56:59 < catphish> i will put a buck regulator in the final version though
2021-09-19T20:57:01 < kakium69> it's more likelly that LDO burns more
2021-09-19T20:57:05 < kakium69> by itself
2021-09-19T20:57:23 < catphish> right now i'm burning 7v by running my 5v logic off the 12v car supply
2021-09-19T20:57:38 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-19T20:57:41 < kakium69> but how much current
2021-09-19T20:58:14 < kakium69> MAX16910 is nice automotive LDO
2021-09-19T20:58:28 < catphish> prototype #1 https://i.imgur.com/LiYVNAM.png - totally overkill - digital and analog inputs, CAN, rotary encoder, 3 dials
2021-09-19T20:58:48 < catphish> it's messy but i can find out if the thing will work or not
2021-09-19T20:59:11 < kakium69> I knew that you were doin gauge cluster
2021-09-19T20:59:28 < catphish> it's not just for EV, the person i'm developing it with wants to do replacement gauges for classic cars
2021-09-19T20:59:43 < catphish> so this prototype has a crazy amount of options to demo for different use cases
2021-09-19T20:59:54 < mawk> power down the thing when the car isn't rolling
2021-09-19T21:00:13 < catphish> also has a UART connector for a GPS module
2021-09-19T21:00:50 < kakium69> catphish: then you cannot piss amps away if it's constantly powered
2021-09-19T21:01:20 < kakium69> from lead acid
2021-09-19T21:01:21 < catphish> it'll definitely need a way to shut down, i haven't cared about that yet, in classic cars it'll run off the ignition, in EVs i'll probably want to be smarter
2021-09-19T21:01:52 < kakium69> or just low Iq it and make it sleep and shut down all tranceivers and actuators
2021-09-19T21:01:58 < mawk> put a battery on it to power it when the car isn't rolling
2021-09-19T21:02:11 < mawk> and when it's rolling the lead acid recharges anyway
2021-09-19T21:02:24 < catphish> it really doesn't need to be on when the car isn't armed
2021-09-19T21:02:29 < mawk> why
2021-09-19T21:02:32 < catphish> so probably just a switch
2021-09-19T21:02:33 < mawk> what about fuel gauge
2021-09-19T21:02:39 < kakium69> clock display
2021-09-19T21:02:48 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-19T21:02:52 < catphish> i've never owned a car where those things work when the car is off
2021-09-19T21:03:23 < mawk> maybe you're stuck in 1970
2021-09-19T21:03:34 < kakium69> all cars I have seen have some sort of power on gauge cluster all the time
2021-09-19T21:03:43 < catphish> but no, it's not that "digital", when it's off, the fuel gauge doesn't need to move, and neither does the speedometer
2021-09-19T21:03:58 < mawk> you said you were replacing the gauges catphish 
2021-09-19T21:04:06 < catphish> if there's a need for permanent power, then i'll need to be smarter
2021-09-19T21:04:08 < mawk> so old fuel gauge is gone
2021-09-19T21:04:26 < catphish> fuel gauge doesn't need to move when car isn't running / armed
2021-09-19T21:04:35 < kakium69> I have not seen car to have fuel gauge work without ignition
2021-09-19T21:04:45 < catphish> but i get it, if there's a need for something to run all the time, i'll add a sleep mod
2021-09-19T21:04:46 < kakium69> but clock and mileage
2021-09-19T21:05:55 < catphish> mileage will probably be mechanical, fuck knows about a clock, i'll ask :) this device won't have an LCD, that's kind of a design goal, plenty of people sell gauges with LCDs, this thing is supposed to be old school
2021-09-19T21:06:11 < kakium69> then it's good
2021-09-19T21:06:43 < catphish> old cars had a purely mechanical speedometer and techometer, that's what i'm supposed to be replicating
2021-09-19T21:06:43 < kakium69> are those leds limiter lights?
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2021-09-19T21:06:59 < catphish> LEDs are for things like headlights and turn signals
2021-09-19T21:07:35 < kakium69> suspisious lack of passives around U3 I assume is can tranceiver
2021-09-19T21:07:58 < kakium69> is it?
2021-09-19T21:07:58 < catphish> yes U3 is can transceiver
2021-09-19T21:08:14 < catphish> it basically just has a single decoupling capacitor
2021-09-19T21:08:16 < kakium69> usually there is like a christmas tree of passives in can lines
2021-09-19T21:08:29 < catphish> U2 is the CAN line driver
2021-09-19T21:08:39 < catphish> R3 is terminating resistor
2021-09-19T21:08:56 < kakium69> ah still sus
2021-09-19T21:09:18 < kakium69> no biasing circuit?
2021-09-19T21:09:23 < catphish> ATA6560
2021-09-19T21:10:20 < catphish> the example application has some biasing resistors that i don't have
2021-09-19T21:10:26 < catphish> interesting!
2021-09-19T21:10:32 < catphish> https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/20005991B.pdf
2021-09-19T21:11:15 < catphish> kakium69: thanks for looking, i'll check on that
2021-09-19T21:11:57 < kakium69> nice it has robust transient resilience
2021-09-19T21:12:07 < kakium69> apparently no need for external components
2021-09-19T21:12:54 < catphish> yeah, it looked super simple to use, but i do appear to have missed some biasing resistors
2021-09-19T21:13:12 < kakium69> external TVS
2021-09-19T21:14:06 < kakium69> is there any values there?
2021-09-19T21:15:37 < Steffanx> circular displays are cool though
2021-09-19T21:16:30 < Steffanx> 3.4 inch. 800x800 pixels or something.
2021-09-19T21:16:44 < kakium69> only oled ones
2021-09-19T21:18:00 < Steffanx> sure
2021-09-19T21:18:00 < catphish> do they come that big now? that would be pretty cool
2021-09-19T21:18:13 < catphish> when i last looked they were only 2" for watches
2021-09-19T21:19:11 < kakium69> last time I looked there were only ~1.3" oleds for watches
2021-09-19T21:19:17 < Steffanx> nah no oled.
2021-09-19T21:19:39 < catphish> kakium69: i think that's what i mean actually
2021-09-19T21:19:48 < catphish> far too small for my application
2021-09-19T21:20:19 < catphish> my finished product will hopefully look more like https://thegaugeshop.com/WebRoot/Store15/Shops/77fe249f-a52b-4600-9f9c-6a9562f88a93/543B/BA3D/F725/EC44/397A/0A48/3538/7363/804832654161_m.png
2021-09-19T21:20:32 < catphish> but for now i want to experiment with the tech :)
2021-09-19T21:20:35 < Steffanx> 3.4 inch isnt so bad, but no oled.
2021-09-19T21:20:48 < mawk> use square display and cardboard mask in front of it
2021-09-19T21:20:55 < Steffanx> ugly.
2021-09-19T21:21:05 < catphish> that's tempting, but useless in a round enclosure :(
2021-09-19T21:21:47 < kakium69> mawk: if you can physically use rectangle display then it's likelly superior
2021-09-19T21:21:59 < kakium69> for price for quality
2021-09-19T21:24:11 < kakium69> yes 1.39" oled is still the biggest one in ali
2021-09-19T21:24:45 < qyx> what are ve reviewing?
2021-09-19T21:25:03 < kakium69> we chats
2021-09-19T21:25:07 < qyx> och such a sparse board
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2021-09-19T23:02:09 < kakium69> gauge clusters are mainly empty pcb
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2021-09-19T23:28:44 < kakium69> hello night
2021-09-19T23:31:03 < catphish> night welcomes you
2021-09-19T23:33:53 < kakium69> night - my old friend
2021-09-19T23:34:40 < kakium69> what is your LDO cost catphish?
2021-09-19T23:36:25 < catphish> kakium69: i really just chose a linear regulator at random - this one https://uk.farnell.com/stmicroelectronics/l7805cdt-tr/linear-volt-reg-5v-1-5a-to-252/dp/2849717
2021-09-19T23:36:40 < catphish> no thought was given to this, i just wanted 5v for a prototype :)
2021-09-19T23:38:05 < kakium69> did you calculate power dissipation?
2021-09-19T23:38:17 < kakium69> or rough number
2021-09-19T23:38:58 < kakium69> there is a trick when using only LDO in automotive application
2021-09-19T23:39:09 < kakium69> series resistors to input
2021-09-19T23:39:40 < kakium69> dissipation is the same but it can be spread across the board
2021-09-19T23:39:45 < qyx> we are in an energetic crisis and using LDOs and resistors
2021-09-19T23:40:11 < kakium69> we are using 7805!
2021-09-19T23:40:58 < mawk> resistor instead of the ldo?
2021-09-19T23:41:01 < kakium69> no
2021-09-19T23:41:02 < mawk> where do you put it
2021-09-19T23:41:03 < kakium69> in series
2021-09-19T23:41:05 < mawk> ah
2021-09-19T23:41:34 < kakium69> so you can spread the warmth instead of having one hot spot
2021-09-19T23:41:35 < mawk> why is it the same result in the end?
2021-09-19T23:41:38 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-19T23:41:47 < mawk> but you also drop the voltage unpredictably
2021-09-19T23:41:51 < mawk> unless you have constant i no?
2021-09-19T23:42:16 < mawk> or you put it before the ld
2021-09-19T23:42:17 < mawk> o
2021-09-19T23:42:22 < mawk> I see
2021-09-19T23:42:23 < kakium69> before
2021-09-19T23:44:43 < kakium69> you can also sink some transients into those resistors
2021-09-19T23:45:09 < kakium69> or even constant overvoltages
2021-09-19T23:52:11 < catphish> kakium69: that makes sense, i didn't actually look into it, but for a mcu and a couple of logic chips i'm not worried yet
2021-09-19T23:52:56 < kakium69> I think you need to protect your LDO input and passives somehow
2021-09-19T23:53:12 < catphish> against what?
2021-09-19T23:55:56 < kakium69> https://www.diodes.com/assets/Figure-1.-A-representation-of-the-test-pulses-used-in-the-automotive-industry.jpg
2021-09-19T23:56:29 < kakium69> to some exceed these
--- Day changed Mon Sep 20 2021
2021-09-20T00:00:32 < kakium69> load dump means disconnected battery while engine is running
2021-09-20T00:01:36 < kakium69> negative ones you catch with series diode but you might want to have some extra capacity to not brown out
2021-09-20T00:02:46 < kakium69> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump
2021-09-20T00:03:31 < kakium69> you don't even need to disconnect it yourself.. the shoe might just be loose and jump off
2021-09-20T00:05:00 < kakium69> never seen it to come off all the way but I have seen some just rattling around the terminal
2021-09-20T00:05:09 < qyx> speaking of load dumps
2021-09-20T00:05:45 < kakium69> you need to dump right
2021-09-20T00:05:46 < qyx> kakium69 and englishman pros, why are torbo propeller airplanes started using a generator?
2021-09-20T00:06:18 < kakium69> to have electricity?
2021-09-20T00:06:43 < englishman> you mean turboprops?
2021-09-20T00:06:56 < kakium69> aa
2021-09-20T00:07:01 < kakium69> now I understand
2021-09-20T00:07:33 < kakium69> why start engine with a ground unit or something?
2021-09-20T00:07:57 < qyx> englishman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcw4OjJFy8
2021-09-20T00:08:01 < qyx> first 45 secs
2021-09-20T00:09:02 < englishman> caravan
2021-09-20T00:09:04 < englishman> turboprop
2021-09-20T00:09:27 < kakium69> definitelly has capatibility to start itself too
2021-09-20T00:09:29 < qyx> it is kodiaq
2021-09-20T00:09:47 < qyx> *kodiak
2021-09-20T00:10:21 < kakium69> probs it's colds and stuff and battery might not be sufficient and they don't want to put strain and cycles to it
2021-09-20T00:10:56 < englishman> turboprops need quite a bit of power to spin up
2021-09-20T00:10:58 < kakium69> also he needs to do preflights, day checks and stuff with electricity on so a lot of power is used before start
2021-09-20T00:11:26 < englishman> when he says he's on generator power instead of town power he probably just means battery power
2021-09-20T00:11:46 < kakium69> or mains
2021-09-20T00:11:50 < kakium69> ?
2021-09-20T00:11:59 < qyx> englishman: you can see a guy with a generator outside
2021-09-20T00:12:06 < qyx> then he disconnects cable from the plane
2021-09-20T00:12:12 < englishman> oh, well then he powers the plane to run the starter
2021-09-20T00:12:23 < qyx> b-but why
2021-09-20T00:12:52 < englishman> easier on the batteries? id have to guess here
2021-09-20T00:13:11 < qyx> btw he has many great videos
2021-09-20T00:13:33 < kakium69> to not start the day with empty battery
2021-09-20T00:14:05 < kakium69> he is doing jump flights he might need to start the engine multiple times during the day
2021-09-20T00:15:24 < kakium69> also some of the instruments might not be powered from the battery
2021-09-20T00:15:39 < kakium69> only from engine or externally
2021-09-20T00:15:48 < englishman> idk there is a caravan at the skydive place and ive never seen them start with external power
2021-09-20T00:16:43 < kakium69> do they stop the engine between flights?
2021-09-20T00:16:47 < englishman> yes
2021-09-20T00:17:13 < englishman> tho, maybe not all the time, you might have a point there
2021-09-20T00:17:52 < kakium69> in turbines every shutdown has price
2021-09-20T00:18:07 < kakium69> it's called cycle
2021-09-20T00:18:33 < kakium69> when turbine is running it's basically in static condition
2021-09-20T00:19:29 < kakium69> temperatures, strain etc. stays in certain range
2021-09-20T00:20:15 < kakium69> I think in passenger flights you need to shut down engine
2021-09-20T00:21:03 < kakium69> for loading
2021-09-20T00:21:20 < kakium69> not during
2021-09-20T00:21:32 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804210713982926894/889206515276316762/i_work_247.jpg
2021-09-20T00:21:57 < kakium69> :D
2021-09-20T00:24:24 < kakium69> man who couldn't be chained by 9to5 invents 24th hour of the day to hide from his work
2021-09-20T00:24:59 < kakium69> jadew: how is biz?
2021-09-20T00:25:36 < jadew> kakium69, looking for other opportunities :P
2021-09-20T00:25:42 < jadew> it sucks
2021-09-20T00:26:23 < jadew> if it was 10 times better, it would be decent
2021-09-20T00:27:05 < kakium69> your products are a niche
2021-09-20T00:27:19 < kakium69> is there enough sales?
2021-09-20T00:27:25 < jadew> no, that's the problem
2021-09-20T00:27:49 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-20T00:28:09 < catphish> i just read a facebook post that compared progressive/liberal politics to nazism because both support gun control
2021-09-20T00:28:31 < catphish> i fear serious political debate is dead
2021-09-20T00:28:54 < kakium69> but is that so far off?
2021-09-20T00:28:57 < jadew> I ran the numbers these day, and I'm working for much less than I'm making from programming
2021-09-20T00:29:30 < jadew> sometimes for less than $20/h
2021-09-20T00:29:34 < kakium69> can you run your current products at side?
2021-09-20T00:29:39 < kakium69> and does it make sense?
2021-09-20T00:29:39 < catphish> jadew: don't worry, if i work i make less than i do in interest
2021-09-20T00:30:08 < jadew> I could be more efficient if I had more sales tho, so like I said earlier, it's a sales problem
2021-09-20T00:30:46 < jadew> kakium69, that's the plan, it'll have to become a side business, so I'll have to focus on something else
2021-09-20T00:30:48 < catphish> jadew: more seriously though, programming is very well paid, if you have work embedded programming, you will make a ton
2021-09-20T00:31:03 < kakium69> do you have approximations how many possible clients you could have in your country, in eu or in the world?
2021-09-20T00:31:14 < catphish> jadew: the hard part is finding your niche and getting the work
2021-09-20T00:31:46 < jadew> kakium69, I don't know, each product has its own market size
2021-09-20T00:32:02 < jadew> and they vary from very small to inexistent
2021-09-20T00:32:12 < kakium69> if you know the setup it usually goes to
2021-09-20T00:32:21 < catphish> jadew: you have product sales?
2021-09-20T00:32:21 < kakium69> specific instruments etc.
2021-09-20T00:32:33 < kakium69> you could ask sales how many they have sold
2021-09-20T00:32:37 < jadew> catphish, yeah
2021-09-20T00:32:39 < kakium69> and WHERE
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2021-09-20T00:33:03 < catphish> jadew: i'm a big fan of product sales (as opposed to service work)
2021-09-20T00:33:08 < jadew> kakium69, don't know if I want to bother with this anymore
2021-09-20T00:33:21 < kakium69> indeed
2021-09-20T00:33:24 < kakium69> that is needed
2021-09-20T00:33:37 < kakium69> bother f-ing everyone
2021-09-20T00:34:01 < kakium69> grind that info
2021-09-20T00:34:30 < jadew> so... from electronics, in 3 years, I had revenue of ~12k
2021-09-20T00:34:34 < catphish> well i'd generally prefer the product option, programming is more $ per hour, but i'd argue much less rewarding hours
2021-09-20T00:34:44 < jadew> 12k EUR
2021-09-20T00:34:50 < kakium69> nice
2021-09-20T00:34:57 < jadew> and I've spent ~30k
2021-09-20T00:35:06 < catphish> but yeah, can't live on 12k (per 3 years)
2021-09-20T00:35:14 < jadew> that's revenue, not profit
2021-09-20T00:35:16 < kakium69> nice
2021-09-20T00:35:47 < jadew> 12k revenue = ~4-5k profit, without my time
2021-09-20T00:35:48 < catphish> jadew: what do you make / sell?
2021-09-20T00:36:03 < jadew> if you factor in my time, it's something with a minus
2021-09-20T00:36:16 < jadew> catphish, https://cojotech.com/'
2021-09-20T00:36:19 < catphish> jadew: well that's not "living on" money, but then, developing a product company takes time, you have to keep pushing
2021-09-20T00:36:22 < jadew> sorry for the '
2021-09-20T00:36:37 < jadew> catphish, don't know if it's worth it
2021-09-20T00:36:56 < catphish> jadew: that looks very niche, so hard to say
2021-09-20T00:36:58 < jadew> development cycles are too long
2021-09-20T00:37:28 < jadew> you screw up a board => 3 weeks until you get a new one (maybe)
2021-09-20T00:37:41 < jadew> then you might have to wait for some exotic part
2021-09-20T00:37:47 < jadew> all the customs fuckery
2021-09-20T00:37:59 < qyx> jadew: lol you are using the same style of pn/sn box
2021-09-20T00:38:16 < catphish> this is why i'm glad my dayjob was SaaS, it's the perfect balance of easily re-worked software, and product-revenue
2021-09-20T00:38:17 < jadew> qyx, you're using that box for a project?
2021-09-20T00:38:41 < jadew> catphish, I intend to go the SaaS route too
2021-09-20T00:38:54 < qyx> jadew: I mean on the pacb
2021-09-20T00:38:56 < qyx> pcb
2021-09-20T00:39:03 < jadew> ah
2021-09-20T00:39:10 < catphish> i love electronics, but i think it's even harder to find a profitable niche, my money would be on the retro computing market
2021-09-20T00:39:16 < jadew> qyx, well, it works :)
2021-09-20T00:39:26 < jadew> I write the SN with a sharpie
2021-09-20T00:39:44 < catphish> jadew: if you want to know anything about SaaS, shout :)
2021-09-20T00:40:00 < qyx> you can make a webinar!
2021-09-20T00:40:27 < jadew> I love electronics too, but like you're saying, it's difficult to find a good niche
2021-09-20T00:40:34 < jadew> all the good ones are flooded by china junk
2021-09-20T00:40:39 < catphish> i have been thinking there'd be a good market in the SaaS+electronics combination, but that's IoT and it's pretty saturated
2021-09-20T00:40:52 < qyx> it is not that much
2021-09-20T00:41:04 < jadew> qyx, then I can become one of those obnoxious webinar promoters
2021-09-20T00:41:25 < jadew> catphish, yes, I had the same train of thought
2021-09-20T00:41:26 < qyx> I mean, I have found a niche IoT market where there is still not much products available
2021-09-20T00:41:55 < qyx> but making electronics is only a small part of the problem itself
2021-09-20T00:42:14 < qyx> people flooded with data are helplessly trying to understand them
2021-09-20T00:42:22 < qyx> but there is nobody with the right knowledge
2021-09-20T00:42:31 < kakium69> understand what?
2021-09-20T00:42:45 < kakium69> endless data?
2021-09-20T00:43:09 < qyx> IoT nowadays is about measuring anything without much though gone into analysing the data
2021-09-20T00:43:20 < qyx> like fucking number of toiled flushes a day
2021-09-20T00:43:57 < qyx> the AI is emerging slowly but idk if it is the right tool to solve this particular problem
2021-09-20T00:44:06 < catphish> jadew: what i have wanted to develop is a generic IoT platform, with a really easy to use SaaS dashboard for recording and reporting on data, and controlling things, ideally getting other people to build the actual hardware products on top
2021-09-20T00:44:22 < qyx> haha been there done that
2021-09-20T00:44:24 < jadew> catphish, I wanted to do that too hehe
2021-09-20T00:44:34 < jadew> there are already lots of platforms like that available
2021-09-20T00:44:47 < catphish> i haven't looked into the existing market
2021-09-20T00:44:59 < kakium69> qyx: when someone figures out how to turn information of toilet flush count to profit I need to know
2021-09-20T00:45:02 < catphish> i know some major players have IoT APIs though
2021-09-20T00:45:25 < qyx> https://qyx.krtko.org/projects/nwr/index.html
2021-09-20T00:45:30 < qyx> my PCI-e obsession ^
2021-09-20T00:45:40 < catphish> one possible opening in this market is NB-IOT
2021-09-20T00:45:42 < qyx> I have many tested and the platform itself is quite generic
2021-09-20T00:46:00 < qyx> the docs is sparse though
2021-09-20T00:46:09 < qyx> not much time to properly document all of them
2021-09-20T00:46:37 < kakium69> that's crazy amount of stuff
2021-09-20T00:46:55 < catphish> highly portable, low power IOT devices are enabled by NB-IOT, maybe new applications, maybe an opportunity to develop a SaaS platform for it, but dunno where to really break into the market
2021-09-20T00:47:35 < qyx> nb-iot is prohibitively constrained
2021-09-20T00:47:37 < catphish> obviously great for infrastructure companies (electricity meters etc)
2021-09-20T00:47:50 < catphish> qyx: it's amazing for collecting data
2021-09-20T00:47:59 < catphish> less so for real time applications
2021-09-20T00:48:11 < qyx> yeah for number of toilet flushes
2021-09-20T00:48:17 < qyx> but for eg. spectrograms it is unusable
2021-09-20T00:48:33 < catphish> perfect for toilet flushes, weather stations, llama farms, etc
2021-09-20T00:48:41 < qyx> with the data plans they are available here
2021-09-20T00:48:49 < qyx> *that are
2021-09-20T00:49:01 < qyx> like 250K/mo
2021-09-20T00:49:08 < qyx> 1M if you ask nicely
2021-09-20T00:49:09 < kakium69> toilet flushes are perfect stuff to feed to AI
2021-09-20T00:49:23 < kakium69> to figure out stuff
2021-09-20T00:49:33 < catphish> yeah 1M/month, but for data collection, that ought to be adequate
2021-09-20T00:49:45 < qyx> lorawan is starting to be a viable alternative
2021-09-20T00:50:06 < qyx> because 1. cheaper modems, 2. not regulated by telecom operators
2021-09-20T00:50:12 < qyx> and 3. many networks available
2021-09-20T00:50:26 < catphish> i don't know what the minimum packet size is, but if you send for example 8 bytes, that's 173 readings per hour
2021-09-20T00:50:29 < qyx> helium is growing, TTN is available since long ago
2021-09-20T00:50:51 < qyx> you have to count overhead in nb-iot too
2021-09-20T00:51:02 < qyx> so add another 40 bytes to your 8 B
2021-09-20T00:51:16 < qyx> or so
2021-09-20T00:51:25 < qyx> and thats when no encryption is involved
2021-09-20T00:51:27 < catphish> qyx: i've bene looking a lot at lora too, my employer was looking at it for the agricultural market, i love it, but hardware is procey
2021-09-20T00:51:30 < catphish> *pricey
2021-09-20T00:51:38 < qyx> huh?
2021-09-20T00:52:00 < jadew> oh, right, and I want to get into agriculture
2021-09-20T00:52:09 < qyx> all in one RN2483 is like 10 €
2021-09-20T00:52:22 < qyx> thats not much compared to nb-iot modems
2021-09-20T00:52:26 < qyx> starting at about 20 €
2021-09-20T00:52:30 < qyx> maybe less
2021-09-20T00:52:38 < mouseghost> yaaaaaawn
2021-09-20T00:53:19 < catphish> qyx: overhead may be 40 bytes, but one would usually bundle multiple reading together into a larger packet
2021-09-20T00:55:01 < mouseghost> do they pay gateway owners something in like TTN or so?
2021-09-20T00:58:56 < qyx> in helium yes, ttn no
2021-09-20T00:59:16 < qyx> but I would not consider helium a mature network
2021-09-20T01:00:21 < jadew> https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ethnic-preferences2.png
2021-09-20T01:01:59 < Steffanx> Is jadew going Blaxter?
2021-09-20T01:03:11 < jadew> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2021-09-20T01:03:21 < kakium69> if you look at the numbers men responded to like 80% and women responded to like 30%
2021-09-20T01:03:49 < jadew> you're right, yeah
2021-09-20T01:06:10 < mouseghost> still the coverage in ttn is eh
2021-09-20T01:06:21 < mouseghost> i would need to figure out something with gsm
2021-09-20T01:07:10 < mawk> use nb-iot
2021-09-20T01:07:13 < mawk> great coverage
2021-09-20T01:07:22 < mawk> if you're in europe, you maybe have sigfox coverage, for very low data sizes
2021-09-20T01:07:25 < mawk> like a few bytes
2021-09-20T01:07:53 < mawk> we have our own vodafone contract but you can also use this for just a few sims I think: https://www.miotiq.com/
2021-09-20T01:08:12 < mawk> for nb-iot
2021-09-20T01:08:22 < mouseghost> ah i need encryption so
2021-09-20T01:08:28 < mouseghost> or at least hmac
2021-09-20T01:08:31 < catphish> i found some people selling international nb-iot SIMs
2021-09-20T01:08:42 < catphish> vodafone is the only option in the UK, dunno how much they charge
2021-09-20T01:08:48 < mawk> the network probably has encryption in itself mouseghost 
2021-09-20T01:08:50 < mawk> but that doesn't matter
2021-09-20T01:08:55 < mawk> you do your own encryption, what's the problem?
2021-09-20T01:09:03 < mouseghost> byte overhead increases?
2021-09-20T01:09:10 < mouseghost> though right, maybe with encryption it isnt a problem...
2021-09-20T01:09:25 < mawk> catphish: look at miotiq rates, they use vodafone SIMs + provide their own platform on top to receive messages and stuff
2021-09-20T01:09:29 < mouseghost> catphish, fuck if i need a simcard ill just use a regular gsm modem
2021-09-20T01:09:34 < mawk> then use nb-iot mouseghost 
2021-09-20T01:09:39 < mawk> you have 512 bytes per message
2021-09-20T01:09:44 < mawk> that's plenty enough
2021-09-20T01:09:49 < mawk> gsm is lousy
2021-09-20T01:09:55 < mawk> it needs really a lot of current to send and receive
2021-09-20T01:09:57 < mawk> like a few amps
2021-09-20T01:10:08 < mouseghost> 10usd hm
2021-09-20T01:10:13 < mouseghost> a few amps?
2021-09-20T01:10:13 < mawk> so you will need a [super]capacitor on the board to be able to send and receive, or use a li-ion battery
2021-09-20T01:10:14 < mouseghost> the hell
2021-09-20T01:10:24 < mawk> yes that's gsm
2021-09-20T01:10:30 < mouseghost> nu-uh
2021-09-20T01:10:39 < mouseghost> maybe you mean a few milliamps?
2021-09-20T01:10:42 < mawk> no
2021-09-20T01:10:44 < mawk> a few amps
2021-09-20T01:10:48 < mawk> just try nb-iot, or maybe lorawan if you want
2021-09-20T01:10:55 < mawk> nb-iot has mtu 512, lorawan is like 40
2021-09-20T01:11:01 < mawk> at least with our provider lorawan is 40
2021-09-20T01:11:17 < mawk> mtu = maximum transmission unit, max data size
2021-09-20T01:11:51 < mouseghost> where can i buy it
2021-09-20T01:11:56 < mouseghost> ooooh so thats what i means
2021-09-20T01:11:58 < mouseghost> it
2021-09-20T01:11:59 < mawk> https://www.miotiq.com/
2021-09-20T01:12:05 < mawk> you can have sims there
2021-09-20T01:12:10 < mawk> and for the nb-iot module you have the choice
2021-09-20T01:12:13 < mawk> we use sara n310
2021-09-20T01:12:16 < mawk> from ublox
2021-09-20T01:12:24 < mawk> but you have many choices
2021-09-20T01:12:24 < catphish> mawk: i don't want someone else to receive the messages, that would defeat the object ;)
2021-09-20T01:12:35 < mawk> they're just a gateway forwarding the messages catphish 
2021-09-20T01:12:40 < mawk> you can enkrypt them
2021-09-20T01:12:52 < mawk> anyway at the very least vodafone or your other carrier will receive the message, that's at least one third party
2021-09-20T01:12:56 < mawk> so what's another in the mix
2021-09-20T01:13:13 < qyx> there is also 1nce.net
2021-09-20T01:13:19 < mawk> working directly with vodafone you need to buy a lot of SIMs, it's not just for a few ones
2021-09-20T01:13:29 < karlp> lte-cat1 modem specifies peak currents of 2A, but runnign speed test we peaked at around 900 or so.
2021-09-20T01:13:31 < mawk> because they set up something just for you internally with its own network and all that
2021-09-20T01:13:34 < karlp> reception of course drives that.
2021-09-20T01:13:36 < mouseghost> meh complicated shit
2021-09-20T01:13:42 < mouseghost> i need to get it to the internet ideally anyways
2021-09-20T01:13:42 < mawk> miotiq isn't complicated
2021-09-20T01:13:45 < mawk> you give money, they give SIM
2021-09-20T01:13:53 < mawk> nb-iot get it to the internet
2021-09-20T01:13:55 < mawk> that's the whole point
2021-09-20T01:14:01 < mawk> you send a message, it arrives on your internet server
2021-09-20T01:14:04 < qyx> mouseghost: with nb-iot you get the same as with gsm
2021-09-20T01:14:06 < catphish> mawk: i don't fully understand it, i assume vodafone have to send the packets somewhere, never thought about how that's configured
2021-09-20T01:14:07 < mawk> and you can give replies, that get forwarded back to the device
2021-09-20T01:14:08 < mouseghost> oh
2021-09-20T01:14:17 < karlp> nb-iot is like shittier gsm though.
2021-09-20T01:14:22 < mawk> catphish: if you buy directly from vodafone (with qty 1000 or so) they send directly to your gateway
2021-09-20T01:14:22 < mouseghost> so how much does it cost
2021-09-20T01:14:27 < qyx> much
2021-09-20T01:14:28 < karlp> it mioght have lower power consumption, but you need to check local coverage.
2021-09-20T01:14:36 < catphish> mawk: that makes sense
2021-09-20T01:14:39 < mawk> that's because you live in a weird country karlp 
2021-09-20T01:14:40 < karlp> and you need a "special" sim, not consumer data plan sim.
2021-09-20T01:14:41 < qyx> few € for 1M/mo
2021-09-20T01:14:44 < mawk> me and catphish have excellent coverage
2021-09-20T01:14:51 < karlp> fuck that, just use LTE.
2021-09-20T01:14:54 < mawk> catphish: if you buy through miotiq or whatever, it goes through their gateway then miotiq forwards to yours
2021-09-20T01:15:07 < mawk> lte has worse coverage no?
2021-09-20T01:15:12 < mouseghost> karlp, ye my thoughts exactly
2021-09-20T01:15:14 < karlp> hardly.
2021-09-20T01:15:17 < qyx> nbiot is lte..
2021-09-20T01:15:17 < mawk> it doesn't penetrate as far as nb-iot
2021-09-20T01:15:18 < karlp> you think consumers tolerate shitty service
2021-09-20T01:15:22 < catphish> NB-IOT is just a low power extension to LTE, it's easy to add to LTE sits AFAIK
2021-09-20T01:15:23 < mawk> yeah but not same frequency and stuff qyx 
2021-09-20T01:15:25 < mouseghost> few eur a month is too much already
2021-09-20T01:15:29 < karlp> nb-iot is ~lte, but you need new mast equipment for the telco
2021-09-20T01:15:31 < karlp> so... not really.
2021-09-20T01:15:41 < qyx> wat
2021-09-20T01:15:48 < qyx> the whole point of nbiot is you don'tneed anything
2021-09-20T01:15:53 < qyx> at the telco side
2021-09-20T01:16:00 < mawk> at least new software
2021-09-20T01:16:02 < qyx> except the sw config of course
2021-09-20T01:16:15 < catphish> karlp: do you need new equipment? that kinda sucks? vodafone seem to have done a good job here, probably off the back of a national contract
2021-09-20T01:16:23 < mawk> you won't get internet access for free mouseghost 
2021-09-20T01:16:35 < catphish> i think it can work within the existing LTE band
2021-09-20T01:16:46 < mouseghost> mawk, ye but isnt it cheaper in the end?
2021-09-20T01:16:48 < mawk> catphish: in netherlands my company was the ~first to subscribe to their nb-iot offer, they took months and months to set it up, late on the contract
2021-09-20T01:16:54 < qyx> yes they use parts of B8/B20 here for nbiot
2021-09-20T01:17:05 < mawk> yeah but different modulation or something qyx 
2021-09-20T01:17:05 < mouseghost> maybe i should mail le douthsce telekom
2021-09-20T01:17:13 < qyx> of course
2021-09-20T01:17:26 < qyx> mouseghost: DT has rates and plans on their site
2021-09-20T01:17:36 < mouseghost> ye but its called tmobile here
2021-09-20T01:17:37 < mawk> don't give in to the german invader mouseghost 
2021-09-20T01:17:42 < mawk> resist
2021-09-20T01:17:44 < qyx> which applies to many DT owned operators
2021-09-20T01:17:47 < mouseghost> mawk, its the only nbiot provider tho
2021-09-20T01:17:48 < qyx> mouseghost: same situation here
2021-09-20T01:18:00 < mawk> if you buy directly from them they might require a minimum quantity mouseghost , like vodafone
2021-09-20T01:18:18 < mawk> hence → https://www.miotiq.com/
2021-09-20T01:18:20 < mawk> or another similar service
2021-09-20T01:18:24 < qyx> fuck miotiq
2021-09-20T01:18:26 < catphish> mawk: irritating :( it's all ready to use here in the UK, i've seem it work, even here in the arse end of the middle of nowhere
2021-09-20T01:18:28 < qyx> they didn't want anything
2021-09-20T01:18:40 < catphish> which means it may be ideal for our agriculture use case
2021-09-20T01:18:48 < mawk> they refused your money qyx ?
2021-09-20T01:18:56 < mawk> yes catphish 
2021-09-20T01:19:04 < qyx> and they even sent me a price list
2021-09-20T01:19:08 < qyx> if I asked nicely
2021-09-20T01:19:12 < mouseghost> mawk, ye so that shitt thing
2021-09-20T01:19:14 < qyx> testing SIMs too
2021-09-20T01:19:22 < mouseghost> ideally i would do direct link, but its like hmm
2021-09-20T01:19:26 < mouseghost> 15-20km?
2021-09-20T01:19:43 < karlp> catphish: yeah, it's new radios, lte-m too.  it's not just a sw upgrade.  
2021-09-20T01:20:42 < catphish> karlp: that may depend on the band they want to use, and the existing radios, some MB-IOT uses the guard band, some is in-band
2021-09-20T01:20:47 < qyx> karlp: even DT itself says it has veen done with software upgrade
2021-09-20T01:21:02 < catphish> i don't know how substantial the changes would need to be for the in-band usage at least
2021-09-20T01:21:41 < qyx> maybe if someone is using radios from 20th century
2021-09-20T01:21:48 < qyx> but all new is SDR stuff
2021-09-20T01:23:42 < Steffanx> As frenchy you should be in to sigfox mawk
2021-09-20T01:24:43 < mawk> yes Steffanx but mtu is too low
2021-09-20T01:25:03 < mawk> it's for throwaway small sensors that do only one thing
2021-09-20T01:25:08 < mawk> and only report a few bytes everyday
2021-09-20T01:25:18 < mawk> which doesn't work for a radar sensor
2021-09-20T01:25:28 < qyx> mouseghost: https://iot.telekom.com/en/networks-tariffs/iot-tariffs/business-smart-connect
2021-09-20T01:25:38 < qyx> I would try to ask for the start plan
2021-09-20T01:25:41 < mouseghost> yeah ive seen it
2021-09-20T01:25:47 < mouseghost> expensive as shit
2021-09-20T01:26:08 < mawk> m i o t i q
2021-09-20T01:26:19 < mawk> they sell vodafone sims but it can roam on tmobile network
2021-09-20T01:26:20 < mawk> no problem
2021-09-20T01:26:21 < mouseghost> just gonna use some 3g or so modem and ye probably. this is just a simple on-off thing with no requirements so lol
2021-09-20T01:26:44 < mawk> they sign new roaming agreements everyday
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2021-09-20T01:26:57 < mouseghost> perhaps i should develop my own solution instead of relying on someone else's lol
2021-09-20T01:27:05 < mouseghost> some point to point link
2021-09-20T01:27:11 < mawk> at 20km?
2021-09-20T01:29:06 < mouseghost> ye
2021-09-20T01:29:09 < mouseghost> is that much in your opinion?
2021-09-20T01:29:46 < catphish> SDR remote radios are cool stuff
2021-09-20T01:32:47 < mouseghost> eh i should just go with regular lte and stop all that thinking lol
2021-09-20T01:32:53 < mouseghost> though goodnight for now
2021-09-20T01:33:05 < mouseghost> ive welded today -- my first time
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2021-09-20T01:37:20 < qyx> did he weld out his cable
2021-09-20T01:39:26 < catphish> there are substantial advantages of NB-IOT over LTE, they invented it for a reason
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2021-09-20T11:17:49 < mawk> what will the queen say tomorrow Steffanx ?
2021-09-20T11:30:29 < Steffanx> Zhe Queen?
2021-09-20T11:30:34 < Steffanx> The king maybe
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2021-09-20T11:38:29 < karlp> qyx: might have been now, it absolutely wasn't done with sw upgrades only at the time.
2021-09-20T11:38:53 < karlp> but if they've figured outa  sw upgrade one some of the common hardware platforms, that woudl certainly explain it's expanded uptake.
2021-09-20T11:40:01 < karlp> and catphish isn't here...
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2021-09-20T11:57:07 < mawk> Steffanx google agenda calls it "day of the queen speech"
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2021-09-20T12:31:37 < karlp> zyp: yaml sux: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/5qar5  I wanted to have ADC1 and ADC2 be aliases, so that I could have comaptible code like, RCC.enable(rcc:ADC1) but nooooo. yaml merged it all, only one key.
2021-09-20T12:38:59 < zyp> that's not yaml's fault, that's how I've organized it
2021-09-20T12:40:10 < zyp> you could argue I've got key and value backwards :)
2021-09-20T12:41:30 < karlp> well, some online yaml validator thing I tried did the same thing, 
2021-09-20T12:41:38 < karlp> but yeah, because of how it's organized...
2021-09-20T12:43:25 < zyp> swapping it is just a matter of swapping num and name on rcc_enums.h.j2:8
2021-09-20T12:46:59 < zyp> but in that case we should do the same for interrupts to stay consistent, i.e. interrupt_enums.h.j2:8, as well as changing default_handler.cpp.j2:10 from entries.values() to entries
2021-09-20T12:47:49 < zyp> it'd make it emit duplicate symbols for interrupt aliases, but I'm not sure that's a problem since they'd all be weak aliases for the default handler anyway
2021-09-20T12:52:47 < karlp> I'm not hard on this, just something I ran into, and thought that added aliases would be the "nice" way of doing it.
2021-09-20T12:53:21 < zyp> yeah, and I'm saying I'm not opposed to making the change to allow that
2021-09-20T12:53:33 < karlp> goodo, I'lls ee how my day goes...
2021-09-20T12:53:46 < karlp> goal is still _using_ other people's sw, not writing to much of it :)
2021-09-20T12:53:54 < karlp> also, good to have a weekend off. https://bin.jvnv.net/file/u7Atx.png
2021-09-20T12:54:04 < karlp> a) question why the vrefint voltages were so low.
2021-09-20T12:54:05 < karlp> b)
2021-09-20T12:54:14 < karlp> b) recheck the channel configuration
2021-09-20T12:54:42 < karlp> c) actually _measure_ vrefint, not the channel number that is vrefint on f3, but not on wb....
2021-09-20T12:54:56 < karlp> so it's flat now. joy
2021-09-20T12:56:23 < zyp> I find I also end up writing code for a bunch of stuff I'm planning to just use :)
2021-09-20T12:58:19 < zyp> currently doing the factory test for orbtrace using exclave and I ended up making my own webui for it: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/DTy6a.png
2021-09-20T13:05:26 < karlp> yeah, I'm not a big enough web dude. it's why I used openhtf
2021-09-20T13:05:35 < karlp> I looked at exclave, but it ws missing exactly that sort of shit
2021-09-20T13:07:16 < zyp> well, it got one, I just didn't like it, and just finished up some other webshit at work, so I figured I'll just throw together something more preferable while I'm at it
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2021-09-20T13:30:08 < karlp> hrm, I can't figure out the jinja on the vectors after switching orders.
2021-09-20T13:30:18 < karlp> there's some numeric / string range shit that's gone now.
2021-09-20T13:30:29  * karlp hsn't debugged jinja shit in years
2021-09-20T13:30:48  * karlp tries something
2021-09-20T13:30:58 < zyp> just the two changes I mentioned should do it
2021-09-20T13:31:05 < zyp> got a diff?
2021-09-20T13:31:41 < karlp> yeah, one sec,
2021-09-20T13:31:50 < karlp> it's the enumerating of the handlers into the section.
2021-09-20T13:33:11 < karlp> https://paste.centos.org/view/b19a53a4
2021-09-20T13:33:26 < karlp> without the values/keys switch in the first one, it does other problems, but it's related to that.
2021-09-20T13:33:56 < zyp> ah
2021-09-20T13:34:22 < zyp> s/interrupts.irq/interrupts.irq.values()/
2021-09-20T13:34:43 < zyp> hmm
2021-09-20T13:34:48 < zyp> more than that
2021-09-20T13:34:50 < zyp> fuck :)
2021-09-20T13:34:57 < karlp> it needs to do it in numerical order too.
2021-09-20T13:35:02 < karlp> to get them inserted correctly
2021-09-20T13:35:17 < zyp> yeah, just leave that, I can look at it later
2021-09-20T13:35:49 < zyp> but yeah, okay, that's why I used number as key, not the other way around
2021-09-20T13:35:58 < zyp> and RCC just to keep consistent
2021-09-20T13:38:41 < PaulFertser> Fuck muziks https://youtube.com/watch?v=jB2dyxANqKg
2021-09-20T13:47:25 < karlp> ok, figured it out, just cleaning it up now.
2021-09-20T13:50:39 < karlp> actually, not sure that's a good idea for irqs, you just _can't_ have aliases that are zero cost, so you might as well leave it in num: name order to force that.
2021-09-20T13:51:24 < zyp> yeah
2021-09-20T13:51:48 < zyp> well
2021-09-20T13:52:17 < zyp> you can have aliases, but you can only use one at a time, otherwise you'll get symbol conflicts
2021-09-20T13:53:39 < karlp> how so? how do you put the one that is declared into one of them into the vector table
2021-09-20T13:54:05 < karlp> the problem is in vector_nvic.cpp, where the real handlers are inserted.
2021-09-20T13:54:27 < karlp> I'm just goig to put that away right now :)
2021-09-20T13:55:15 < zyp> the templated symbol name is created from the numeric value of the interrupt enum, so multiple names referring to the same number will result in the same symbol
2021-09-20T13:55:51 < zyp> that's why can't turn it back to a name when you're looking at an ISR
2021-09-20T13:55:55 < zyp> gdb*
2021-09-20T13:56:21 < karlp> ah, well, some of what i'd changed trying to flip this made a symbol out of the name instead, so that probably wasn't
2021-09-20T13:56:23 < karlp>  helping :)
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2021-09-20T14:17:29 < Steffanx> It's called "prinsjesdag" mawk
2021-09-20T14:42:23 < mawk> no Google tells me it's Jour du discours de la Reine Steffanx 
2021-09-20T14:42:28 < mawk> day of the speech of the queen
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2021-09-20T14:54:55 < Steffanx> Lies.
2021-09-20T14:55:00 < Steffanx> Google is wrong
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2021-09-20T15:05:55 < mawk> oops
2021-09-20T15:06:00 < mawk> I closed a bunch of channels by accident
2021-09-20T15:06:04 < mawk> I forgot the other ones I was on
2021-09-20T15:06:11 < mawk> if they were important I will remember them later
2021-09-20T15:10:02 < bitmask> switch to discord
2021-09-20T15:10:17 < mawk> :(
2021-09-20T15:10:19 < mawk> never
2021-09-20T15:10:33 < bitmask> unfortunately i downloaded it
2021-09-20T15:10:44 < bitmask> the vulkan channel here is useless
2021-09-20T15:26:22 < Fleck> anyone can explain those: --specs=nano.specs -u _printf_float -u _scanf_float ?
2021-09-20T15:32:14 < karlp> see the readme.txt that came with your toolchain...
2021-09-20T15:33:01 < karlp> (https://github.com/ARM-software/toolchain-gnu-bare-metal/blob/master/readme.txt is ~equivalent in all likelihood)
2021-09-20T15:42:19 < mawk> Fleck: it's options for ld
2021-09-20T15:42:23 < mawk> so look at man ld
2021-09-20T15:42:33 < mawk> what they mean in this particular case, it's in karlp 's link
2021-09-20T15:42:41 < mawk> read nano.specs also
2021-09-20T15:42:46 < mawk> you'll find it in the gcc arm toolchain thing
2021-09-20T15:42:48 < mawk> look around
2021-09-20T15:42:52 < mawk> it's easy to understand what it does
2021-09-20T15:43:00 < mawk> it's just more options for ld enabled all at once
2021-09-20T15:43:20 < Fleck> yeah well, w/o those args I get hardfault
2021-09-20T15:43:24 < Fleck> with them I don't
2021-09-20T15:43:39 < Fleck> at least, in ONE case, so I am trying to understand, whats going on
2021-09-20T15:43:41 < mawk> well you definitely need nano.specs
2021-09-20T15:43:46 < mawk> the other two, not necessarily needed
2021-09-20T15:43:52 < mawk> unless you use printf and scanf with float/double
2021-09-20T15:44:12 < karlp> you don't _need_ nano specs...
2021-09-20T15:44:15 < mawk> nano.specs sets up the libc in a "nano" way for you, you need it; if you remove it at least read the nano.specs file to see what it was doing
2021-09-20T15:44:30 < mawk> yeah you don't need it, but if you randomly remove it then something is probably not done right
2021-09-20T15:45:30 < mawk> https://i.pinimg.com/564x/03/54/ce/0354ce58a7a4308edcc46dd9238e12d7.jpg
2021-09-20T16:01:23 < Fleck> mawk: I am not removing --specs=nano.specs, but w/o -u _printf_float -u _scanf_float (I am not sure it's printf or scanf, I can try that also...) I get hardfault
2021-09-20T16:02:25 < mawk> are you using printf on float/double Fleck ?
2021-09-20T16:03:14 < Fleck> not me, maybe 3rd party libs are :(
2021-09-20T16:03:24 < Fleck> newlib std also seems to be working
2021-09-20T16:03:32 < mawk> newlib is libc
2021-09-20T16:03:38 < mawk> it's the implementation of the libc
2021-09-20T16:03:46 < mawk> they also provide a libstdc++ and a few other things like libm(aths)
2021-09-20T16:04:51 < Fleck> but anyway, OK, lets assume it does use printf with floats, does it make sens to hardfault then?
2021-09-20T16:05:02 < mawk> yeah I guess
2021-09-20T16:05:07 < mawk> if it's trying to call a symbol that isn't there
2021-09-20T16:05:11 < mawk> and aborts or does whatever
2021-09-20T16:06:08 < karlp> fecking, dma interrupt sometimes takes _ages_ to complete.
2021-09-20T16:06:47 < Fleck> Formatted input/output of floating-point number are implemented as weak symbol. If you want to use %f, you have to pull in the symbol by explicitly specifying "-u" command option. << from this I understand, there is a symbol, just weak, maybe empty, IDK how this works
2021-09-20T16:06:50 < karlp> there's no loops?!
2021-09-20T16:23:41 < jpa-> "Floating-point format specifiers are recognized by default, but if the floating-point functions are not explicitly linked in"    sounds like it shouldn't hardfault anyway
2021-09-20T16:36:07 < Fleck> as I have a lot of flash and ram, I will try to use newlib std and see if I still get hardfaults, thanks karlp, mawk, jpa- for your time! :)
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2021-09-20T17:12:47 < Fleck> Put an explicit reference to the support function into one of the object files in your program.  One way to do this is to add a statement such as        asm (".global _printf_float");      to one or more of the source files in your program. << yep, adding this and no hardfault :/
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2021-09-20T17:56:05 < karlp> that soundsd likea  busted LTO setup maybe?
2021-09-20T17:56:38 < karlp> at least when I've done it, if you don't do that -u _printf blah it just prints '' for %f.
2021-09-20T17:56:42 < karlp> hardfault sounds reallllly busted
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2021-09-20T20:01:28 < Fleck> whats LTO karlp? :D
2021-09-20T20:02:00 < PaulFertser> Fleck: link time optimisation
2021-09-20T20:02:31 < Fleck> ohh
2021-09-20T20:07:33 < ventyl> it essentially behaves as if all of your source code was in single .c file
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2021-09-20T21:17:07 < catphish> morning humans
2021-09-20T21:51:45 < Steffanx> Hello cat or phish
2021-09-20T21:59:56 < catphish> i am both
2021-09-20T22:22:57 < Steffanx> Like catdog?
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2021-09-20T22:32:52 < kakium69> night32
2021-09-20T22:36:48 < kakium69> catphish!! updates?
2021-09-20T22:38:01 < catphish> am i that interesting?
2021-09-20T22:38:22 < catphish> i ordered my prototype board and a atmel ice, nothing will happen for a while
2021-09-20T22:39:02 < catphish> though i need to learn how to program the thing, there's no atmel ide for linux, so might go back to my usual vscode / gcc :)
2021-09-20T22:42:05 < kakium69> just wine it?
2021-09-20T22:42:36 < kakium69> ah no
2021-09-20T22:42:41 < kakium69> rating: garbage
2021-09-20T22:49:41 < catphish> annoying
2021-09-20T22:50:32 < kakium69> windows is so terrible you cannot possibly use it for work?
2021-09-20T22:52:51 < catphish> windows is ok
2021-09-20T22:53:25 < catphish> i can't realistically change OS for one project though
2021-09-20T22:53:42 < kakium69> change?
2021-09-20T22:54:16 < kakium69> https://www.virtualbox.org/ please
2021-09-20T22:54:31 < catphish> i use virtualbox, i don't find it practical for working in though
2021-09-20T22:54:57 < catphish> but i certainly would if necessary
2021-09-20T22:55:18 < kakium69> is it that ircs is running on host?
2021-09-20T22:56:43 < catphish> ircs?
2021-09-20T22:57:14 < kakium69> internet relay chats
2021-09-20T22:57:28 < kakium69> so you need to switch between host and guest to ircs
2021-09-20T22:57:37 < catphish> i use hexchat, works fine on linux and windows
2021-09-20T22:57:52 < kakium69> the most painfull thing about vm is switching between host and guest
2021-09-20T22:57:59 < catphish> in fact most of what i use works on both, kicad, hexchat, firefox
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2021-09-20T22:58:15 < catphish> but switching between host and guest is tedious
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2021-09-20T22:58:39 < catphish> i *can* use proprietary apps in a VM, i just don't enjoy it
2021-09-20T22:59:27 < kakium69> I don't enjoy it even when running only windows
2021-09-20T22:59:43 < kakium69> to not have that option
2021-09-20T23:00:28 < catphish> i much prefer native linux, or native windows, i don't really know why
2021-09-20T23:01:13 < kakium69> did you know
2021-09-20T23:01:21 < kakium69> if you have virtualization enabled
2021-09-20T23:01:37 < kakium69> windows may virtualize stuff you run
2021-09-20T23:01:56 < kakium69> or stuff
2021-09-20T23:02:04 < kakium69> it does virtualization
2021-09-20T23:02:04 < catphish> everything is virtualized, that's what an OS does anyway
2021-09-20T23:02:37 < catphish> i mean, virtualization CPU ring isn't so different from any other CPU ring afaik
2021-09-20T23:03:01 < Steffanx> kakium69!! updates?
2021-09-20T23:03:04 < catphish> but still, running multiple desktop environments at once sucks
2021-09-20T23:03:20 < kakium69> Steffanx: it's night now
2021-09-20T23:03:28 < catphish> it's always night
2021-09-20T23:03:35 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-20T23:03:47 < kakium69> sometimes there is illusion of the day
2021-09-20T23:03:50 < Steffanx> its only 23.03
2021-09-20T23:03:57 < kakium69> but it's actually night also
2021-09-20T23:04:14 < catphish> illusion of day happens on some parts of the sphere at certain times
2021-09-20T23:04:26 < Steffanx> The day just began
2021-09-20T23:04:56 < catphish> it's only niiiiiiiiiiine o clock here in great britain
2021-09-20T23:05:09 < catphish> still at least 3 hours of monday
2021-09-20T23:11:59 < kakium69> steff: movi plz
2021-09-20T23:15:06 < kakium69> catphish: are you planning to build other stuff for cars too?
2021-09-20T23:15:21 < Steffanx> Try Sex Education on Netflix.
2021-09-20T23:16:36 < kakium69> tried it
2021-09-20T23:16:55 < kakium69> didn't feel like watching the latest season yet
2021-09-20T23:17:34 < kakium69> let's see "Kate"
2021-09-20T23:18:35 < kakium69> maybe it's that I turned over 30 my personality changed Steff
2021-09-20T23:19:32 < kakium69> update steff: I didn't have covid19
2021-09-20T23:19:48 < kakium69> I'm dissapointed somehow
2021-09-20T23:20:11 < Steffanx> did you get your 5g shot yet?
2021-09-20T23:20:12 < kakium69> I need to try harder to find the covid19 and get infected
2021-09-20T23:20:41 < kakium69> yes it was activated the night I turned 31yo
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2021-09-20T23:35:46 < catphish> kakium69: i don't know yet, i'm a little unclear about the scope of the project
2021-09-20T23:36:13 < catphish> kakium69: but there might be some EV projects
2021-09-20T23:37:00 < kakium69> I went to my drive to see nice photos of automotive board I made
2021-09-20T23:37:12 < kakium69> ended up browsing my projects generally
2021-09-20T23:37:48 < kakium69> I have to come to conclusion I have been on crack
2021-09-20T23:38:03 < qyx> thats common
2021-09-20T23:38:33  * qyx stealing a random declaration of conformit
2021-09-20T23:38:34 < qyx> y
2021-09-20T23:38:52 < catphish> lol
2021-09-20T23:39:44 < catphish> i'm working with 2 different people, one wants to develop replacement speedometers for classic cars, the other wants to develop EV conversion kits for classic cars
2021-09-20T23:40:37 < catphish> i'm starting to look at electronics for both projects, EV electronics is complicated so not sure what i'll be able to do yet, but monitoring CAN should be a good starting point
2021-09-20T23:41:35 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GcdpJiNGfKTTktbkw3elFNZ00/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-bXoMWlnvbTabQv90R-OV2Q I made that shit
2021-09-20T23:41:44 < mouseghost> please dont share poop photos thank you
2021-09-20T23:41:53 < mouseghost> ohhh
2021-09-20T23:42:00 < catphish> what is that
2021-09-20T23:42:07 < mouseghost> what is that
2021-09-20T23:42:14 < kakium69> ice sail thing
2021-09-20T23:42:21 < jadew> man... amazon tablets fucking suck
2021-09-20T23:42:27 < jadew> it wakes up to show me adss
2021-09-20T23:42:29 < jadew> *ads
2021-09-20T23:42:39 < qyx> :D
2021-09-20T23:42:42 < catphish> that sounds shit
2021-09-20T23:43:36 < jadew> the lockscreen is a full page ad too :)
2021-09-20T23:43:57 < jadew> that's on fire 7, which sucks in more ways that that
2021-09-20T23:44:00 < jadew> 8 is nicer
2021-09-20T23:56:25 < kakium69> about ads and jadew is here too
2021-09-20T23:56:29 < kakium69> I had a dream
2021-09-20T23:57:45 < jadew> what happened in the dream?
2021-09-20T23:57:53 < kakium69> had sex with a girl
2021-09-20T23:58:26 < jadew> ah, I had that dream as well
2021-09-20T23:58:30 < kakium69> but oof.. she had aids
2021-09-20T23:58:42 < catphish> still worthwhile
2021-09-20T23:58:43 < jadew> damn...
2021-09-20T23:59:13 < kakium69> guess who just watched movie Bohemian Rhapsody
2021-09-20T23:59:56 < catphish> some old sad lonely person?
--- Day changed Tue Sep 21 2021
2021-09-21T00:00:16 < kakium69> ye sure
2021-09-21T00:01:47 < Fleck> in objectdumo -S, can anyone explain this line: 800214c:       24000594        .word   0x24000594 ?
2021-09-21T00:01:49 < catphish> tidied up my board, will make a lovely prototype https://i.imgur.com/Ur6UEUK.png
2021-09-21T00:02:23 < karlp> Fleck: constants
2021-09-21T00:03:01 < Fleck> karlp: thanks, can I somehow know what constants? What type etc?
2021-09-21T00:03:36 < kakium69>  catphish: you still might need to protect upstream from LDO
2021-09-21T00:03:43 < karlp> eh, you can normally infer it, especiall if you have function sections and data sections you should normally be able to figure it out?
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2021-09-21T00:04:42 < catphish> kakium69: what do you mean?
2021-09-21T00:05:40 < karlp> Fleck: I'd have to see more, but you're looking at a "small" number of them at the end of each function's dissasmbly right?
2021-09-21T00:05:51 < catphish> next iteration will have TVS but is there something else?
2021-09-21T00:06:09 < Fleck> karlp: looks like it, yes
2021-09-21T00:07:15 < karlp> yeah, it's constants, offsets to functions it might call, addresses even, anything that might be easier/smaller/faster than using immediate loads for instance.
2021-09-21T00:07:53 < karlp> you cna play with some of this sort of thing on godbolt, it can highliight things for you nicely sometimes
2021-09-21T00:07:55 < kakium69> catphish: series resistor before TVS
2021-09-21T00:08:01 < kakium69> *series diode
2021-09-21T00:08:56 < jadew> https://media.tenor.com/videos/b8fd2a9f54e358757146abcf85d42b65/mp4
2021-09-21T00:09:24 < kakium69> jadew: typical chinese thrill park
2021-09-21T00:09:55 < kakium69> or maybe south-american?
2021-09-21T00:10:07 < Fleck> karlp: looking up, what is godbolt...
2021-09-21T00:14:28 < karlp> zyp: I take it you can't just extern"C" provide _write and have printf work then hey? https://paste.jvnv.net/view/20XcJ
2021-09-21T00:15:46 < zyp> hang on
2021-09-21T00:16:08 < karlp> Fleck: for instance https://godbolt.org/z/nG6PP5cqe
2021-09-21T00:16:18 < karlp> the .word at the end: if you kmouse over it,
2021-09-21T00:16:27 < karlp> it shows you that it's 0x123456, which is the constant in the comparison
2021-09-21T00:16:46 < karlp> but the * 0xaabb got done a different way...
2021-09-21T00:16:47 < Fleck> neat!
2021-09-21T00:17:03 < zyp> karlp, here's another pile of mess but it should have what you need :)
2021-09-21T00:17:05 < zyp> https://paste.jvnv.net/view/KCh40
2021-09-21T00:17:15 < catphish> kakium69: diode before what, why? sorry if i'm being dim here
2021-09-21T00:17:38 < Fleck> wondering, how I can "add" my dump there ;DF
2021-09-21T00:17:40 < Fleck> wondering, how I can "add" my dump there ;D
2021-09-21T00:17:50 < kakium69> it may not be necessary catphish
2021-09-21T00:18:12 < karlp> just.... paste it itn fleck :)
2021-09-21T00:18:36 < karlp> zyp: why don't I need them in my c projects?
2021-09-21T00:18:49 < kakium69> but you might want to keep positive voltage for your LDO upstream if there is negative spike
2021-09-21T00:18:56 < zyp> karlp, libnosys perhaps?
2021-09-21T00:18:58 < karlp> or is this something from nostartfiles vs me using something subtley different
2021-09-21T00:19:03 < zyp> could be
2021-09-21T00:19:47 < zyp> I'm planning to sort it out some way or another, either by grabbing them from libnosys or putting them in laks
2021-09-21T00:19:48 < karlp> -lnosys and -lgcc yeah.
2021-09-21T00:20:00 < karlp> ok. that's easy
2021-09-21T00:20:10 < karlp> any thing that just stops us from using lnosys?
2021-09-21T00:20:14 < kakium69> also catphish by using series diode a little reversing accident doesn't kill your LDO
2021-09-21T00:20:20 < karlp> or is there a cout c++ thing I should be doing instead?
2021-09-21T00:20:23 < catphish> kakium69: you mean if +12v input falls below 0v? if so, that makes perfect sense
2021-09-21T00:20:29 < zyp> no
2021-09-21T00:20:30 < karlp> I know I know, I normally use trace, but sometimes it's just nice and easy and clear
2021-09-21T00:20:49 < zyp> c++20 has a std::format but gcc10 doesn't include it
2021-09-21T00:20:52 < catphish> kakium69: a diode would work and would dissipate some unwanted volts too
2021-09-21T00:21:20 < kakium69> catphish yes and TVS blows right out if you reverse even for a second
2021-09-21T00:21:37 < catphish> i'll put it on the list of useful additions for a final product
2021-09-21T00:21:47 < kakium69> ye
2021-09-21T00:21:49 < zyp> std::format is apparently based on fmtlib, so I tried using fmtlib but that didn't work out very well
2021-09-21T00:21:59 < karlp> well, just stickingin -lnosys didn't do much :)
2021-09-21T00:22:04 < karlp> maybe I should drink beer and play video games instead.
2021-09-21T00:22:12 < karlp> the L1 board isn't eevn on the table anyway.
2021-09-21T00:23:26 < zyp> I figure either std::format becomes usable or I'll eventually write my own lightweight formatter, and until then I'd just stick with printf and friends
2021-09-21T00:28:08 < karlp> aight, works.
2021-09-21T00:28:16 < karlp> syszyp.cpp, with a few changes :)
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2021-09-21T00:33:36 < karlp> tada https://github.com/karlp/l2-simple/blob/main/syszyp.cpp
2021-09-21T00:37:28 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WbrTlKH8n-30NJExFRk3U__wdfwBfTCY/view?usp=sharing fixed TIG / GTAW welding machine once
2021-09-21T00:38:05 < kakium69> bought like 100eurs worth of connectors
2021-09-21T00:42:05 < catphish> connectors are the hidden cost of all projects
2021-09-21T00:42:20 < catphish> i wish my money was in "big-connector"
2021-09-21T00:42:29 < karlp> andthe biggest impact on case design as well
2021-09-21T00:42:36 < kakium69> make one connector design catphish
2021-09-21T00:42:43 < kakium69> and provide pigtail
2021-09-21T00:42:58 < kakium69> it's how shit is done
2021-09-21T00:43:50 < catphish> it's ridiculous that there's so many connector standards, we should invent one unified connector
2021-09-21T00:43:51 < catphish> https://xkcd.com/927/
2021-09-21T00:44:34 < catphish> alas i am not a mechanical engineer
2021-09-21T00:46:31 < kakium69> I'm little sus about use of screw terminals in vibrating environment catphish
2021-09-21T00:46:45 < kakium69> they need to be quality
2021-09-21T00:48:30 < kakium69> in automotive everything seems to be press fit connections and crimping
2021-09-21T00:48:43 < qyx> fuk screw terminals
2021-09-21T00:48:47 < qyx> I hate them
2021-09-21T00:52:13 < kakium69> catphish: ventyl has done actual stuff for actual production vehicles
2021-09-21T00:54:49 < kakium69> you might want to ask him tips before finalizing design
2021-09-21T00:57:07 < qyx> use rosenberger/fakra and you are good
2021-09-21T01:00:50 < kakium69> such weird connector
2021-09-21T01:09:10 < kakium69> I remember megasquirt used some DB connector
2021-09-21T01:09:33 < kakium69> maybe DB-25 or so
2021-09-21T01:10:27 < kakium69> D37
2021-09-21T01:11:47 < kakium69> *DB37
2021-09-21T01:18:54 < Steffanx> Don't let PaulFertser read what you just said, kakium69 
2021-09-21T01:19:17 < Steffanx> It's DC-37
2021-09-21T01:19:41 < kakium69> is there such thing?
2021-09-21T01:19:54 < Steffanx> Just like it's not DB-9, but DE-9
2021-09-21T01:20:14 < kakium69> :o
2021-09-21T01:20:40 < kakium69> what is the difference?
2021-09-21T01:21:38 < Steffanx> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
2021-09-21T01:22:57 < kakium69> ah
2021-09-21T01:23:05 < kakium69> it's where the nuts are
2021-09-21T01:24:34 < kakium69> no
2021-09-21T01:24:43 < kakium69> it's the size of the outline or something
2021-09-21T01:25:21 < Steffanx> Yeah the shell size
2021-09-21T01:25:28 < kakium69> what a mess
2021-09-21T01:27:17 < Steffanx> I'm happy I could teach you this. Thanks Paul.
2021-09-21T01:30:52 < kakium69> I feel like I have been pressed the importance of the difference in the suffix alphabet
2021-09-21T01:34:35 < kakium69> now I cannot defend myself with ignorance
2021-09-21T01:37:09 < Steffanx> Unless its was real DB-37 but that's unlikely
2021-09-21T01:37:24 < kakium69> unlikely
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2021-09-21T08:46:57 < jpa-> hmm, pybind11 is pretty nice
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2021-09-21T09:32:28 < jpa-> though i must say that the consequences of forgetting an .inc_ref() are pretty funny to debug - usually another object will eventually get allocated in place of your use-after-free reference, and it manifests as variables randomly changing contents to another valid object :D
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2021-09-21T09:41:08 < Fleck> lol
2021-09-21T09:46:48 < zyp> jpa-, nice :)
2021-09-21T09:47:07 < zyp> I've used boost.python before, >10 years ago
2021-09-21T10:09:54 < ventyl> it is a lot of fun also the other way around, e.g. pyqt5
2021-09-21T10:12:40 < zyp> that's using SIP for bindings
2021-09-21T10:13:28 < ventyl> yeah, but at least the flavour we've been using required you to unbind C++ object before python object got garbage-collected
2021-09-21T10:13:55 < zyp> for custom C++ objects?
2021-09-21T10:14:05 < ventyl> nope, from Qt C++ objects
2021-09-21T10:14:25 < zyp> I've used pyqt a bunch, never ran into that
2021-09-21T10:14:46 < ventyl> PyQt objects have disconnect() method. or something like that
2021-09-21T10:15:35 < ventyl> maybe it wasn't pyqt, as for qt5, there are at least two widely used bindings to python
2021-09-21T10:16:01 < zyp> pyqt vs pyside? IIRC they're pretty much API compatible
2021-09-21T10:16:17 < ventyl> yeah pyside
2021-09-21T10:16:27 < zyp> I've used both, but I'm not sure I used pyside2
2021-09-21T10:17:16 < ventyl> nvm, the matter is that in certain scenarios, you had to call disconnect() or something similar before you emptied reference to pyqt object, otherwise it started acting weird eventually crashing
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2021-09-21T10:58:12 < Fleck> ldr    r0, [r5, #0] << can somebody interpret this? r0 target, r5 needs to contain memory address, r0 will have value from r5 address?
2021-09-21T10:58:32 < zyp> r0 = r5[0];
2021-09-21T11:00:05 < Fleck> after this I get usagefault, r0 is 0 and r5 is also 0. UsageFault due to unaligned memory access
2021-09-21T11:00:26 < zyp> that doesn't make sense
2021-09-21T11:01:01 < Fleck> that I get usagefault or that r0 and r5 both are 0? :D
2021-09-21T11:02:36 < zyp> 0 isn't unaligned in any sense, so the alignment fault doesn't make sense
2021-09-21T11:02:58 < zyp> either you've not got an alignment fault or the address you're trying to access is not 0
2021-09-21T11:04:57 < Fleck> no you are right, that's not the instruction, I was doing step, not stepi, sorry, lets see witch one is it
2021-09-21T11:05:00 < zyp> when the information you have is inconsistent, it's pointless to deduce further from it, you have to go back and double check what you're trying to access and how it's faulting
2021-09-21T11:08:23 < jpa-> maybe the fault is delayed and is from some instruction a few items before
2021-09-21T11:08:37 < Fleck> next instruction is: r3 = r0[0]; ( ldr r3, [r0, #0] ), r0 is 0xf65afb95, stepi and hardfault
2021-09-21T11:09:01 < jpa-> have you explicitly enabled fault-on-unaligned-access?
2021-09-21T11:09:02 < zyp> can you post the whole CFSR value?
2021-09-21T11:09:32 < jpa-> usually only ldrd would fault on unaligned access
2021-09-21T11:10:06 < zyp> 0xf65afb95 is invalid anyway
2021-09-21T11:10:16 < zyp> sounds more like a busfault than an alignment fault
2021-09-21T11:10:28 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/ipecarixec.coffeescript
2021-09-21T11:11:50 < zyp> Fleck, what does «x/wx 0xe000ed28» say?
2021-09-21T11:12:16 < Fleck> zyp: 0xe000ed28:     0x01000000
2021-09-21T11:13:00 < zyp> Fleck, what about «x/wx 0xe000ed14»?
2021-09-21T11:13:15 < jpa-> how about  x /1i 0x08001580
2021-09-21T11:13:15 < Fleck> 0xe000ed14:     0x00070200
2021-09-21T11:13:49 < Fleck> 0x8001580  ldr     r3, [r0, #0]
2021-09-21T11:13:59 < zyp> hmm, UNALIGN_TRP is disabled
2021-09-21T11:14:23  * Fleck looks up UNALIGN_TRP...
2021-09-21T11:14:32 < jpa-> do you see ldrd anywhere in    x /16i 0x08001570
2021-09-21T11:14:40 < zyp> but CFSR does indeed say UNALIGNED
2021-09-21T11:15:47 < jpa-> (or strd, for that matter)
2021-09-21T11:16:52 < zyp> > Unaligned accesses are not supported to PPB space, and so there are no boundary crossing cases for PPB accesses.
2021-09-21T11:16:57 < Fleck> jpa-: https://p.rullz.lv/ipiyomajum.bash
2021-09-21T11:17:32 < zyp> I think you're just trying to access a garbage addr that happens to be in PPB space so it traps on alignment before it traps on bus error
2021-09-21T11:17:44 < Fleck> whats PPB?
2021-09-21T11:18:10 < Fleck> Private peripheral bus 
2021-09-21T11:18:13 < zyp> addrs >= 0xe0000000 I believe
2021-09-21T11:18:32 < jpa-> yeah, that makes sense
2021-09-21T11:18:44 < jpa-> now just trace where your r0 is coming from
2021-09-21T11:18:57 < Fleck> thank you guys!
2021-09-21T11:19:06 < jpa-> i.e. from r5[0], and then where r5 is coming from
2021-09-21T11:25:43 < Fleck> hmm how did you come up with this address: 0xe000ed28 zyp?
2021-09-21T11:28:10 < ventyl> address of some register known from Cortex programming manual
2021-09-21T11:28:18 < jpa-> yeah, CFSR address
2021-09-21T11:28:51 < ventyl> not a bad thing to read in a situation you are in
2021-09-21T11:28:52 < jpa-> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ddi0439/b/System-Control/Register-summary
2021-09-21T11:32:46 < Fleck> ok so 0xf65afb95 is in PPB?
2021-09-21T11:41:19 < zyp> it's a garbage addr, there's nothing there
2021-09-21T11:41:26 < zyp> but yeah, it should be in PPB region
2021-09-21T11:43:20 < Fleck> according to programming manual, it's vendor-specific-memory... PPB end at 0xE000EFA8 if I understand this correctly, I got confused there :D
2021-09-21T11:43:42 < Fleck> thanks, will look up, where 0xf65afb95 comes from
2021-09-21T11:59:38 < ventyl> what is code, which causes this doing?
2021-09-21T11:59:51 < ventyl> isn't some pointer arithmetic, or register manipulation involved?
2021-09-21T12:00:02 < ventyl> you may be missing barrier, or have off-by-one bug, or something similar
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2021-09-21T12:15:38 < Fleck> looks like variable was just uninitialized...
2021-09-21T12:21:09 < ventyl> add -Wall to your compiler flags
2021-09-21T12:21:17 < ventyl> defaults are just insanely ignorant
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2021-09-21T12:47:11 < catphish> kakium69: yeah i assume i'll want to use the kind of connectors that everything else in cars uses these days, waterproof, locking push-fit
2021-09-21T12:50:53 < ventyl> waterproof connectors in cars? haha
2021-09-21T12:51:04 < ventyl> maybe in engine comparment
2021-09-21T12:51:07 < zyp> catphish, what are you making?
2021-09-21T12:52:40 < catphish> zyp: automotive gauges
2021-09-21T12:52:50 < catphish> likely for classic cars
2021-09-21T12:53:07 < catphish> but with some modern tech thrown in for EV conversions
2021-09-21T12:54:38 < catphish> prototype #1 looks like this https://i.imgur.com/0d5TzqE.png but ultimately it should look more like https://d2culxnxbccemt.cloudfront.net/car/content/uploads/2015/06/30172328/NewProd-Image-11.jpg
2021-09-21T12:55:28 < catphish> i have to go dentist now :)
2021-09-21T13:00:27 < ventyl> interesting stuff. I'd want one if it was modular, so I could put it behind cluster panels of my car
2021-09-21T13:01:31 < zyp> fun
2021-09-21T13:02:17 < zyp> and yeah, wouldn't it make sense to make it more modular?
2021-09-21T13:03:31 < zyp> i.e. with each gauge being a module with a microcontroller hooked to a common bus, and then maybe a controller box that goes between the gauge bus and the rest of the IO
2021-09-21T13:05:23 < catphish> zyp: i han't actually considered that, but you're absolutely right and i will probably go that way!
2021-09-21T13:06:01 < zyp> :)
2021-09-21T13:06:28 < catphish> zyp: this would allow me to expand it to any number of gauges, and keep the MCU and CAN etc in a separate unit (which could be available with and without CAN)
2021-09-21T13:06:40 < catphish> you are a genius :)
2021-09-21T13:09:49 < ventyl> give submodules some "universal" mount points so they can be hacked into original cluster
2021-09-21T13:10:32 < ventyl> it won't work for really ancient clusters which use "sparrow nest" arrangement of freely laid wires, but it will work for newer clusters with large PCBs
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2021-09-21T14:02:43 < mawk> why is the current curve of a charging supercap so weird
2021-09-21T14:02:53 < mawk> there's a lot of discontinuous steps
2021-09-21T14:03:04 < mawk> instead of a nice decreasing exponential
2021-09-21T14:03:16 < mawk> it looks like a ball bouncing down stairs
2021-09-21T14:08:21 < mawk> BrainDamage you must know
2021-09-21T14:08:32 < mawk> you know the capacitor model by heart
2021-09-21T14:08:53 < mawk> you dream about charged infinite parallel plates
2021-09-21T14:09:56 < jpa-> mawk: have a image?
2021-09-21T14:10:33 < mawk> in 10 minutes, I'm on the street having lunch currently
2021-09-21T14:11:38 < mawk> I tried a mentholed strawberry for my new ecigarette mix
2021-09-21T14:11:51 < mawk> but the menthol is anesthesiating the throat a bit
2021-09-21T14:12:10 < mawk> so I don't feel the nicotine scraping my throat like a razorblade, which is like the best part of smoking
2021-09-21T14:12:21 < mawk> I'm disappointed
2021-09-21T14:13:42 < mawk> I should put more propylene glycol in the mix
2021-09-21T14:13:48 < mawk> that's the scrapy ingredient
2021-09-21T14:14:04 < mawk> glycerine is the one producing the thing looking like smoke
2021-09-21T14:18:29 < ventyl> PPG also smokes a bit
2021-09-21T14:18:39 < ventyl> maybe PPG not, but ETG definitely does
2021-09-21T14:19:09 < mawk> I don't trust anything else than PG or VG
2021-09-21T14:19:25 < mawk> like 1-MCP burning holes through lungs of cannabinoid vapers in the USA
2021-09-21T14:19:28 < ventyl> well you don't want to ingest ETG, it is extremely toxic
2021-09-21T14:20:17 < mawk> unless it's a long enough polymer chain
2021-09-21T14:20:21 < mawk> then it just makes you shit a lot
2021-09-21T14:20:56 < ventyl> IIRC it causes decay of something in blood
2021-09-21T14:21:10 < ventyl> or maybe some organs decay
2021-09-21T14:21:16 < mawk> I hope not
2021-09-21T14:21:19 < mawk> I eat it everyday
2021-09-21T14:21:27 < mawk> macrogol 3000, I guess 3000 is the molecular weight
2021-09-21T14:21:34 < mawk> or the average polymer chain length
2021-09-21T14:21:35 < ventyl> anyway, ETC induced death is slow and painful
2021-09-21T14:21:43 < ventyl> *ETG
2021-09-21T14:22:07 < mawk> just drink beer with it
2021-09-21T14:22:13 < mawk> then you're fine
2021-09-21T14:23:02 < mawk> ethanol competes with ethylene glycol in the body so ethylene glycol doesn't bind
2021-09-21T14:23:25 < mawk> someone should serve antifreeze cocktails
2021-09-21T14:24:40 < mawk> it works with methanol too
2021-09-21T14:24:54 < mawk> if your moonshine has enough ethanol you won't go blind
2021-09-21T14:24:55 < ventyl> yeah I know
2021-09-21T14:25:14 < mawk> are you sure that my organs are decaying?
2021-09-21T14:25:23 < mawk> maybe I need another medication instead of PEG
2021-09-21T14:25:26 < ventyl> there was a case in czechia, that someone added methanol to base used for commercial beverages and a lot of people had problems
2021-09-21T14:26:07 < mawk> that sounds like something someone in China would do
2021-09-21T14:26:20 < ventyl> for people who didn't drank extensive amount of stuff the treatment was to keep them drank by infusing methanol
2021-09-21T14:27:01 < ventyl> well, guys who did that told media, that their plan would go unnoticed if original manufacturers didn't add some methanol themselves, so resulting mixture was "too hot"
2021-09-21T14:27:13 < mawk> lol
2021-09-21T14:27:23 < mawk> in what year was it?
2021-09-21T14:27:34 < ventyl> less than 10 years ago I guess
2021-09-21T14:27:40 < mawk> lol
2021-09-21T14:29:17 < ventyl> 2012
2021-09-21T14:29:48 < BrainDamage> mawk a supercap is sort of hybrid between a cap and a battery, it has an electrolyte in the mid an ions need to migrate
2021-09-21T14:32:08 < ventyl> apparently the ethanol : methanol mixture was almost 1 : 1, it seems as if some distillation step was completely skipped
2021-09-21T14:32:34 < BrainDamage> there's 3 effects in play, classic capacitance, pseudocapacitance from ion drift and charge transfer
2021-09-21T14:32:47 < BrainDamage> a supercap can imply normally two, or even 3
2021-09-21T14:32:52  * karlp furiously takes notes
2021-09-21T14:33:38 < jpa-> karlp: about vape liquids?
2021-09-21T14:33:42 < BrainDamage> pseudocapacitance from ion drift is also called electric double-layer
2021-09-21T14:34:28 < BrainDamage> and it's the layer of ions at the interface between a solid and a liquid
2021-09-21T14:35:32 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210921133049598.png
2021-09-21T14:35:36 < mawk> https://serveur.io/Screenshot_20210921133049598.png
2021-09-21T14:35:38 < mawk> that's the graph
2021-09-21T14:36:35 < BrainDamage> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Voltagram-Engl.png
2021-09-21T14:36:42 < mawk> so these discontinuous jumps and the fact that i(t) isn't monotonous come from this ion drift?
2021-09-21T14:37:16 < BrainDamage> that + resistance
2021-09-21T14:37:47 < BrainDamage> and if it uses charge transfer, there's even redox reactions happening
2021-09-21T14:37:49 < mawk> this is the discharging curve, the charging curve should look similar right?
2021-09-21T14:38:07 < mawk> but my curve looks even weirder
2021-09-21T14:38:09 < BrainDamage> unfortunately, no :p
2021-09-21T14:38:14 < mawk> I have 4 supercaps in parallel though
2021-09-21T14:38:17 < mawk> ah
2021-09-21T14:38:26 < mawk> each 1.25F
2021-09-21T14:38:36 < mawk> I think
2021-09-21T14:38:50 < mawk> they go by 2, in a single package; I assume they are in parallel inside
2021-09-21T14:38:51 < jpa-> in my opinion, your curve looks like problem in your setup
2021-09-21T14:39:11 < mawk> I'm not testing the caps alone, some other electronics is alive
2021-09-21T14:39:19 < mawk> but the other electronis draws 7.5µA max
2021-09-21T14:39:25 < BrainDamage> the steps are the results of something else
2021-09-21T14:39:27 < jpa-> maybe your supply voltage is changing for some reason?
2021-09-21T14:39:27 < mawk> I'm using the "otii arc" thing to measure current
2021-09-21T14:39:36 < mawk> it's expensive so the supply voltage should be pretty constant
2021-09-21T14:40:01 < BrainDamage> the upwards curve instead is the reactions in the supercap
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2021-09-21T14:40:07 < jpa-> does the datasheet specify "Supply voltage ripple vs. price of device"?
2021-09-21T14:40:13 < mawk> but I know the board is defective in one way or another, so maybe some component on the board is doing that; but when I tested the board alone without the caps it looked fine
2021-09-21T14:40:20 < mawk> so that's why I thought maybe the caps are dying
2021-09-21T14:40:54 < mawk> it's this: https://www.mouser.fr/datasheet/2/40/AVX_SCM-1018838.pdf
2021-09-21T14:41:02 < mawk> 5.0V 2.5F
2021-09-21T14:41:26 < mawk> there's no nice curve in it though
2021-09-21T14:41:35 < mawk> ah you meant the otii arc thing lol
2021-09-21T14:42:05 < BrainDamage> the large steps in voltage usually mean that current is being draw as a step
2021-09-21T14:42:17 < BrainDamage> and the ESR gives you a jump in voltage
2021-09-21T14:42:34 < mawk> I also have long shitty wires between the supply and the board
2021-09-21T14:43:08 < BrainDamage> attach a simple resistor to the caps
2021-09-21T14:43:34 < BrainDamage> you should see the inital step, then the bulge, then the discharge
2021-09-21T14:43:39 < mawk> I set the supply voltage to 3.6, and a multimeter gives 3.5946 without much change around that
2021-09-21T14:43:44 < mawk> maybe a 0.0001V ripple
2021-09-21T14:44:15 < mawk> ah good idea
2021-09-21T14:45:55 < mawk> but I need a real scope for that instead of that current meter thing
2021-09-21T14:49:34 < mawk> jpa-: it's this thing https://www.qoitech.com/
2021-09-21T14:49:44 < mawk> 100% of people around me that heard about it say it's good
2021-09-21T14:50:15 < mawk> it can emulate a battery profile also if you pay extra
2021-09-21T14:55:18 < karlp> jpa-: no, supercap behaviours
2021-09-21T14:58:01 < mawk> do not lie karlp I know you are jealous of my big clouds; I can help you get started with this model: https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/12140635_901103439970095_1663814191743018474_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=85a577&_nc_ohc=k6mlW9R7JXoAX9XoWt7&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=16b1c78116dbafe7c9e495fb66587f4f&oe=616DB914&dl=0
2021-09-21T14:58:05 < jpa-> mawk: with the 1 ohm ESR, a 0.1 mV change in supply voltage would give 100 µA change in current
2021-09-21T14:58:12 < jpa-> .. which is pretty much what you are seeing
2021-09-21T14:58:24 < mawk> jpa-: discontinuous changes like this?
2021-09-21T14:58:30 < mawk> all the mcu stuff is asleep, in the graph
2021-09-21T14:58:33 < jpa-> if the power supply is digitally controlled, yes
2021-09-21T14:58:37 < mawk> nothing should start drawing more or less like this
2021-09-21T14:58:39 < mawk> ah, I see
2021-09-21T14:59:11 < jpa-> (to be more exact: if the power supply feedback loop is partly or fully digital)
2021-09-21T14:59:43 < mawk> maybe I should recalibrate the power supply so it stops changing
2021-09-21T14:59:50 < mawk> when it's warmed up you need to recalibrate it
2021-09-21T15:02:18 < karlp> man, otii toolboxes are far tooe xpensive.
2021-09-21T15:02:34 < karlp> buying a controllable device and then wanting $100 a month for the control options is fucked up
2021-09-21T15:03:03 < mawk> you mean the battery profile?
2021-09-21T15:03:16 < mawk> using it as a power supply and drawing graphs is free, that's enough
2021-09-21T15:03:27 < karlp> the automation toolbox as well.
2021-09-21T15:03:36 < mawk> ah yeah
2021-09-21T15:03:47 < mawk> but it's free compared to altium
2021-09-21T15:03:52 < mawk> so they can propose this price
2021-09-21T15:07:45 < mawk> also something with the otii, there is a ground loop or whatever else thing I don't understand, but if I connect my PC's ground the board, then current jumps all over the place
2021-09-21T15:07:56 < mawk> for instance, to look at the UART
2021-09-21T15:08:07 < mawk> the otii has a uart thing in itself that I could use instead, but that's still annoying
2021-09-21T15:12:11 < BrainDamage> usb 1.1 isolators are cheap
2021-09-21T15:14:01 < mawk> well I expected they had one inside
2021-09-21T15:14:08 < mawk> why would connecting just the ground of another thing do that?
2021-09-21T15:14:31 < mawk> electrons don't flow in my ground cable, they're in a traffic jam
2021-09-21T15:16:10 < jpa-> maybe your laptop ground is at 120 VAC and messes things up
2021-09-21T15:16:21 < mawk> ah maybe
2021-09-21T15:17:25 < tct> somebody fix the router in London pls.
2021-09-21T15:17:27 < tct> and stop brexitting.
2021-09-21T15:17:31 < tct> thanks
2021-09-21T15:31:42 < jadew> I just saw "Yesterday" - enjoyable
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2021-09-21T18:00:39 < Steffanx> Fixed, tct 
2021-09-21T18:08:10 < tct> thanks Steffanx 
2021-09-21T18:08:16 < tct> your services are greatly appreciated
2021-09-21T18:17:29 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@152.44.147.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
2021-09-21T18:33:22 < bitmask> what services might those be? is Steffanx offering blowjobs for money again?
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2021-09-21T19:02:41 < Steffanx> I fixed his London router, bitmask 
2021-09-21T19:03:18 < bitmask> is that a router in London, or something else entirely :P
2021-09-21T19:03:53 < Steffanx> It's whatever you want it to be
2021-09-21T19:04:06 < Steffanx> Use your imagination 
2021-09-21T19:04:15 < bitmask> cool, well in that case I'm going to take a shower, just imagine me naked with warm water caressing my body
2021-09-21T19:04:47  * bitmask wonders if he took it too far... nope
2021-09-21T19:07:07 < BrainDamage> new stm32 official apparel https://whatever.co/work/wfh-jammies/
2021-09-21T19:07:57 < mawk> on the company server (that contains all the company data and other critical stuff) I saw two drives blinking
2021-09-21T19:08:02 < mawk> so I took them out and in again
2021-09-21T19:08:13 < mawk> and very unexpectedly, that destroyed the RAID5 array
2021-09-21T19:08:17 < mawk> I don't get why
2021-09-21T19:08:23 < mawk> and now my colleagues are mad at me
2021-09-21T19:08:57 < mawk> but after forcing rebuilding the array the data on it is fine
2021-09-21T19:09:00 < mawk> so I'm lucky
2021-09-21T19:10:04 < BrainDamage> unspectedly, really?
2021-09-21T19:10:25 < mawk> more or less
2021-09-21T19:10:39 < mawk> I didn't take them out at the same time
2021-09-21T19:10:53 < mawk> one, then put back, then the other, then put back
2021-09-21T19:11:13 < BrainDamage> except zfs and btrfs all raids can only work with whole disk rebuild, not portion
2021-09-21T19:11:40 < mawk> the raid controller stopped writing data as soon as a disk was pulled, so the raid wasn't busted
2021-09-21T19:11:40 < BrainDamage> so after pulling one out, the whole state was crippled until you rebuild the data for the whole disk
2021-09-21T19:11:47 < BrainDamage> which is megastupid
2021-09-21T19:12:04 < mawk> I didn't rebuild the array, I used the wrong word I guess
2021-09-21T19:12:09 < mawk> I just clicked "force enable"
2021-09-21T19:12:21 < mawk> and it used the data that was left on the disks at the time of pulling out
2021-09-21T19:12:31 < mawk> and I don't know why but it still works
2021-09-21T19:12:48 < mawk> probably the hw raid controller is smart enough to stop writing when one disk errors
2021-09-21T19:16:36 < BrainDamage> there's likely few kB of data broken somewhere
2021-09-21T19:16:48 < BrainDamage> butt you might just ignore it
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2021-09-21T19:30:02 < Flecks> help :( https://p.rullz.lv/baxepihiru.shell
2021-09-21T19:32:57 < Flecks> how is timer callback working, if prev. callback is not finished, is new one ignored or stacked?
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2021-09-21T22:03:30 < kakium69> Flecks: read HAL manual
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2021-09-21T22:23:54 < Flecks> kakium69: yeah, thanks for nothing...
2021-09-21T22:26:35 < kakium69> Flecks: what is your chip
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2021-09-21T22:37:48 < machinehum> What the capacitor called that connects the high to low side on a flyback supply
2021-09-21T22:37:55 < machinehum> It's like "Y1" safety or some shit
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2021-09-21T22:46:29 < kakium69> any example circuits?
2021-09-21T22:49:45 < machinehum> https://www.cui.com/product/resource/pbo-5c.pdf
2021-09-21T22:49:50 < machinehum> Page 5, CY1
2021-09-21T22:51:06 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-21T22:51:37 < machinehum> Is there name for that?
2021-09-21T22:52:47 < kakium69> a Class-Y capacitor, also known as the "line to ground capacitor" or "the line bypass capacitor"
2021-09-21T22:53:25 < machinehum> Thanks
2021-09-21T22:53:27 < kakium69> Y1 capacitors fail open
2021-09-21T22:53:37 < machinehum> It's for reducing EMC?
2021-09-21T22:53:38 < kakium69> makes sense
2021-09-21T22:53:44 < machinehum> Yeah makes sense
2021-09-21T22:54:00 < kakium69> it does something
2021-09-21T22:54:15 < machinehum> I guess it also would stop the potential from GND to output from going wild
2021-09-21T22:54:18 < machinehum> Earth GND
2021-09-21T22:54:24 < kakium69> you need one across the transformer when you have mains operated device
2021-09-21T22:54:43 < kakium69> I don't know why but you need it
2021-09-21T22:56:45 < kakium69> in consumer application you might need 2 in series
2021-09-21T22:56:51 < kakium69> ideally
2021-09-21T22:59:23 < machinehum> coo
2021-09-21T23:04:53 < bitmask> hi hi hi
2021-09-21T23:05:41 < machinehum> hi
2021-09-21T23:05:43 < machinehum> hi hi hi
2021-09-21T23:06:58 < bitmask> woman showed up dressed as Rosa Parks with her face darkened with dye to protest a vaccination mandate for all public school employees in Oregon. She was placed on administrative leave.
2021-09-21T23:06:59 < bitmask> oh man
2021-09-21T23:28:53 < mawk> lol
2021-09-21T23:51:17 < kakium69> project recommendations?
--- Day changed Wed Sep 22 2021
2021-09-22T00:04:01 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/HFYVXhU
2021-09-22T00:04:13 < machinehum> Accurate?
2021-09-22T00:09:49 < jadew> never used lcsc, but yeah, it sounds accurate
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2021-09-22T00:22:05 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OuLsPDpK4fbt-mS-S55N1-VhmdzkQ8Ay/view?usp=sharing Shenzhen
2021-09-22T00:24:57 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JTrt5h8xr0oe0Ku_5ztHgWgg36JP4pB6/view?usp=sharing SEG Plaza
2021-09-22T00:25:57 < kakium69> we went to that "small" building in front of seg plaza and visited just the first floor. it was full of phone parts and accessories
2021-09-22T00:27:13 < kakium69> when you order electronics stuff from ebay it just might come from one of those buildings or the general area of city
2021-09-22T00:31:30 < kakium69> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LZZnyWR2ChOen3X-6Hb4udJq7USpFlvJ/view?usp=sharing yammy drink
2021-09-22T00:32:57 < kakium69> it didn't have pop so it was basically juice version of red bull
2021-09-22T00:35:30 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFLKmb2w7A
2021-09-22T00:36:11 < kakium69> yaiks jadew
2021-09-22T00:39:56 < kakium69> is that chimney like a.. those things communism build like big concrete sculptures and shit
2021-09-22T00:40:22 < jadew> I don't know why they built it
2021-09-22T00:40:34 < jadew> but I know I wouldn't climb it
2021-09-22T00:42:42 < kakium69> they should put a ticket booth at bottom
2021-09-22T00:43:06 < kakium69> there is more videos of people climbing there
2021-09-22T00:44:30 < kakium69> it's that high because of the terrain
2021-09-22T00:44:54 < jadew> did they start at 0?
2021-09-22T00:45:07 < jadew> ah, you mean it's because otherwise the smoke wouldn't disperse right
2021-09-22T00:45:22 < jadew> yeah, I think that's how they calculate the height of the thing
2021-09-22T00:45:33 < jadew> but it also probably depends on what they're burning
2021-09-22T00:45:53 < jadew> if they're so bent on keeping it away from the people, maybe it's not a good idea to go there
2021-09-22T00:46:08 < kakium69> or the volume
2021-09-22T00:46:49 < kakium69> you wouldn't want to fill the valley with COx
2021-09-22T00:48:11 < kakium69> it's a coal power plant
2021-09-22T00:55:11 < Steffann> I get nervous by just watching this video..
2021-09-22T00:56:33 < jadew> yeah, what if it's not maintained, what if the wind blows a little too hard
2021-09-22T00:56:43 < Steffann> Apparently it's now used to free climb too
2021-09-22T00:56:45 < jadew> what if you slip
2021-09-22T00:57:20 < Steffann> https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/02/sport/slovenia-chimney-climbing-europe-spt-intl/index.html
2021-09-22T01:01:26 < kakium69> I see ropes
2021-09-22T01:01:33 < kakium69> but man
2021-09-22T01:01:49 < kakium69> that is crazy
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2021-09-22T12:49:56 < karlp> they fucking bolted holds to it?!
2021-09-22T12:50:04 < karlp> weird description.
2021-09-22T12:50:31 < karlp> it's not really "we free climbed the chimney" it's more "we built the walls tallest climbing wall on this old chimney"
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2021-09-22T14:44:58 < mawk> an old dutch guy gave me his newspaper when he heard me speak english Steffann 
2021-09-22T14:45:04 < mawk> he told me to read it to learn dutch
2021-09-22T14:45:10 < mawk> was that your father?
2021-09-22T14:45:24 < mawk> "de telegraaf" or something
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2021-09-22T15:31:05 < Steffann> You wouldn't find my father in Delft, mawk
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2021-09-22T19:50:27 < karlp> zyp: is this sort of thing "good" or "bad" ? https://paste.centos.org/view/68c69070
2021-09-22T19:52:45 < karlp> nvm, doesn'
2021-09-22T19:53:08 < karlp> t work after I've put it in the right files anyway, works if I have it as my own shit, but can't attach it as a "dma" method anywhere..
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2021-09-22T20:23:22 < drzacek> hello there
2021-09-22T20:25:07 < drzacek> will the timer generate interrupt on counter value change when in encoder mode?
2021-09-22T20:26:08 < jpa-> no, not on every change
2021-09-22T20:26:26 < jpa-> overflow interrupts work as normal, and if you want interrupt on every edge you can combine it with e.g. EXTI
2021-09-22T20:27:37 < drzacek> okay
2021-09-22T20:28:08 < drzacek> I can still check the GPIO status (low or high) on those pins, right?
2021-09-22T20:28:30 < Steffann> Yes
2021-09-22T20:28:31 < drzacek> if I would get interrupt on A signal, then I could check the B signal to get the direction?
2021-09-22T20:29:49 < jpa-> yes, if for some reason you want to do the encoder processing manually in an interrupt
2021-09-22T20:30:07 < jpa-> but do note that if you have fast pulses, the state could have already changed when you get to the interrupt handler
2021-09-22T20:30:49 < drzacek> well I'm struggling how to implement it in code rn, it is possible that I am trying to overcomplicate stuff that has easy and obvious solution
2021-09-22T20:31:28 < drzacek> I know the TIMx->CNT has the right value. Maybe I should just work with that
2021-09-22T20:31:51 < jpa-> yes, that would be normal way
2021-09-22T20:32:22 < drzacek> guess it's not that bad as I initially thought.
2021-09-22T20:32:41 < drzacek> just need to calculate the increments on overflow
2021-09-22T20:34:49 < jpa-> int64_t big_counter = 0; (int16_t)delta = TIM->CNT - prev_tim_cnt; big_counter += delta;
2021-09-22T20:35:19 < jpa-> prev_tim_cnt += delta;
2021-09-22T20:35:21 < zyp> karlp, I'm not sure what you're attempting to do, what are you passing as T1?
2021-09-22T20:35:48 < jpa-> drzacek: here is also a simple encoder counter in software: http://paste.dy.fi/2Lt/plain
2021-09-22T20:35:58 < Steffann> Btw if you have like mechanical vibration or other glitches and just use a interrupt you might count wrong. 
2021-09-22T20:36:09 < jpa-> Steffann: why?
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2021-09-22T20:36:15 < Steffann> http://makeatronics.blogspot.com/2013/02/efficiently-reading-quadrature-with.html?m=1 sometimes like this adds some extra state checks.
2021-09-22T20:37:08 < Steffann> If your A bounches and B does not, will you dec/inc?
2021-09-22T20:37:22 < Steffann> But you do serve the interrupt on A twice 
2021-09-22T20:37:32 < drzacek> true
2021-09-22T20:37:48 < jpa-> you need to read the GPIO state synchronously and not actually care about what interrupt was triggered
2021-09-22T20:37:55 < drzacek> doubt in this case, it's the one with really low resolution everyone use for arduinos
2021-09-22T20:38:07 < drzacek> guess the ones with 4000 increments / rev would be more affected
2021-09-22T20:38:23 < jpa-> drzacek: the cheapest ones are most prone to bounce when they wear out
2021-09-22T20:38:24 < zyp> if I were doing quadrature in software, I'd just store previous state and compare to current
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2021-09-22T20:39:51 < zyp> bounce is only an issue if you're moving faster than the settling time, otherwise it'll just bounce between the previous and current value until it settles on the current
2021-09-22T20:41:42 < Steffann> The LUT solution is pretty much doing that. Compare the previous/current state.
2021-09-22T20:46:46 < Steffann> Anyway, I just mentioned this because drzacek talked about the "naive" way to do it. 
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2021-09-22T21:20:26 < karlp> zyp: just so it doesn't get upset about uint8_t, char, int, blah for the channel number
2021-09-22T21:20:36 < karlp> don't worry about it much.
2021-09-22T21:21:33 < karlp> was just trying to do the whole if (DMA1.ISR & dma_flag_HTIF(channel))  { DMA1.ICFR = dma_flag_HTFI(channel)); /* pocess shit */ } sort of thing
2021-09-22T21:21:55 < zyp> ah, that shouldn't be an issue
2021-09-22T21:22:18 < karlp> and trying to attach it somewhere namespaced, rather than a global with long preipheral prefixes c-style...
2021-09-22T21:22:49 < karlp> tomorrow's project is scons for cmsis-dsp I guess.
2021-09-22T21:24:24 < zyp> if you're sticking it in the class anyway, couldn't you just do something like bool teif(uint32_t channel) { return ptr->TEIF & (8 << (channel * 4)) ? true : false; }?
2021-09-22T21:24:47 < zyp> possibly with an even more descriptive name than teif
2021-09-22T21:25:44 < zyp> part of the point of making it object oriented is that you can add methods acting on the instance itself, not just namespacing
2021-09-22T21:29:47 < drzacek> Steffanx, aww. I preffer the term "less good"
2021-09-22T21:30:54 < Steffanx> hah, drzacek. ;)
2021-09-22T21:31:14 < karlp> zyp: probably, but it starts to be something that's on the registers, and shared across different ones.
2021-09-22T21:31:19 < karlp> I'll experiment a little.
2021-09-22T21:31:36 < karlp> the "just the registers maam" approach is nice for a lot of things, but sometimes stillhard to read.
2021-09-22T21:40:21 < Flecks> so guys, looks like this... main() is doing _free_r() when inerrupt callback is being called, that also does _free_r()... and I get UsageFault/HardFault
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2021-09-22T21:42:37 < qyx> karlp: I used cmsis-dsp with scons
2021-09-22T21:42:45 < qyx> scons isn't the problem
2021-09-22T21:43:25 < qyx> or maybe it was
2021-09-22T21:43:47 < qyx> I wasn't able to persuade it to compile only sources which are actually needed
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2021-09-22T21:46:51 < sauce> Flecks: doing anything with the heap in an interrupt handler strikes me as a real bad idea in general
2021-09-22T21:48:24 < sauce> looks like newlib/freertos does have specific provisions for this though, with caveats https://github.com/eblot/newlib/blob/master/newlib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c#L158
2021-09-22T21:50:48 < Flecks> OK so I need to use __malloc_lock/__malloc_unlock
2021-09-22T21:51:22 < sauce> it looks like they are called internally so you just need to provide a sensible implementation
2021-09-22T21:51:33 < sauce> (but an external lock would also do the trick)
2021-09-22T21:52:11 < Flecks> thanks, will take a look into this! :)
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2021-09-22T22:20:34 < karlp> qyx: nah, it shouldn't be too hard, just have to do it...
2021-09-22T22:20:43 < karlp> brushing the udst off all my old dsp modelling shits again
2021-09-22T22:20:57 < karlp> pretttttty sure I'm gonna need an opamp though
2021-09-22T22:30:50 < kakium69> is new Dune out?
2021-09-22T22:31:30 < kakium69> ah it's in heckin movies now
2021-09-22T22:33:34 < karlp> zyp: I poked a little more, but it's too much lost in c++ land for me :)  I'll just ignore it for now, until I learn more, 
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2021-09-22T23:03:27 < drzacek> another noob question. I connected 2 buttons to two GPIO pins, configured it as exti inputs. Defined the HAL_GPIO_EXTI_Callback(pin) function. It seem to work, I get the interrupts when I press the buttons, and can filter the pins out
2021-09-22T23:03:47 < drzacek> but on one of the buttons I receive 2 interrupts, instead of one. Am I missing here something? 
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2021-09-22T23:23:55 < kakium69> did you debounce the button?
2021-09-22T23:41:08 < kakium69> drzacek: did you?
2021-09-22T23:41:32 < drzacek> as in - unpress it?
2021-09-22T23:44:38 < drzacek> kakium69, what does debounce mean?
2021-09-22T23:44:56 < kakium69> welcome to basics of basics
2021-09-22T23:45:07 < kakium69> you need to add debouncing circuit to button
2021-09-22T23:45:44 < kakium69> button contacts mechanically bounce when you press the button
2021-09-22T23:47:15 < drzacek> okay, so I think I have general idea what bounce is, thanks to google
2021-09-22T23:47:19 < drzacek> how do I debounce?
2021-09-22T23:47:30 < drzacek> add fat capacitor?
2021-09-22T23:48:12 < kakium69> 100n
2021-09-22T23:48:21 < kakium69> and a resistor
2021-09-22T23:48:26 < kakium69> or two resistors
2021-09-22T23:48:49 < kakium69> there is multiple ways of implementing debounce circuit
2021-09-22T23:49:05 < sauce> id skip the electronics part and just do software debounce....ie ignore edges for a period after the first
2021-09-22T23:50:33 < kakium69> actually if you use internal pullup you can do debounce with one cap
2021-09-22T23:51:10 < kakium69> that you need to calculate to have sufficient ramp time with internal weak pull-up
2021-09-22T23:51:20 < sauce> that only gives you a ramp in one direction though
2021-09-22T23:51:30 < sauce> there is still a case where multiple edges can be generated
2021-09-22T23:51:34 < kakium69> do you need the other direction?
2021-09-22T23:53:25 < kakium69> you push the button and it grounds the cap
2021-09-22T23:53:31 < kakium69> instantly
2021-09-22T23:54:03 < kakium69> then there is slow ramp up. slow in terms of bouncing time
2021-09-22T23:54:08 < sauce> it doesnt go from infinite resistance to 0 immediately
2021-09-22T23:54:53 < kakium69> but it goes to 0 before bouncing
2021-09-22T23:54:56 < drzacek> interesting
2021-09-22T23:55:07 < sauce> no guarantee of that at all
2021-09-22T23:55:13 < drzacek> gonna play with it tomorrow, need to get osciloscope to see it
2021-09-22T23:56:42 < kakium69> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/09/embed-with-elliot-debounce-your-noisy-buttons-part-i/ here drzacek
--- Day changed Thu Sep 23 2021
2021-09-23T00:00:08 < kakium69> https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/proper_debouncing-sch.png personally I use this
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2021-09-23T00:09:10 < Steffanx> software debounce.. 
2021-09-23T00:10:16 < kakium69> if you are dying to save 2cents or idk.. 5mm2
2021-09-23T00:13:41 < Steffanx> Yes
2021-09-23T00:14:55 < sauce> or not interested in baking assumptions into your electrical design about the mechanical state and parameters of the system
2021-09-23T00:15:37 < kakium69> a compromise: use both
2021-09-23T00:16:33 < Steffanx> Ill ask what your manager prefers
2021-09-23T00:16:52 < kakium69> I have dreamt of using both
2021-09-23T00:17:02 < kakium69> the ultimate debounce
2021-09-23T00:24:12 < Steffanx> kakium69: This showed up in my youtube list because you talked about queen's bohemian rhapsody: https://youtu.be/wYwAXFl26t0
2021-09-23T00:24:36 < kakium69> did I broken your tubes just by talking in ircs?
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2021-09-23T00:24:48 < Steffanx> perhaps..
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2021-09-23T00:26:37 < kakium69> nice nice but that song is too much for her
2021-09-23T00:27:29 < Steffanx> ok and next was this apparently: https://youtu.be/YKyBGuFHEXY
2021-09-23T00:29:28 < kakium69> what a world we can watch the exact same television entertainment but with different people and language
2021-09-23T00:29:48 < Steffanx> and it was invented by the dutch
2021-09-23T00:31:14 < kakium69> not that I watch that
2021-09-23T00:32:04 < Steffanx> i wont judge you kakium69
2021-09-23T00:33:11 < kakium69> it's television karaoke basically
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2021-09-23T00:38:24 < Steffanx> nah
2021-09-23T00:39:05 < kakium69> it is
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2021-09-23T00:39:32 < kakium69> with dramatization
2021-09-23T00:45:12 < Steffanx> Too much talk, that for sure.
2021-09-23T01:24:36 < octorian> I keep wondering whether to "upgrade" from my ST-Link v3 to a Segger J-Link. (yes, I know there's an enormous cost difference)  At the most basic level, simply being able to have more than 2 breakpoints is very tempting.
2021-09-23T01:24:47 < octorian> Also, at some point I might want to play with the fancier JTAG features.
2021-09-23T01:25:55 < PaulFertser> You can get J-Link EDU
2021-09-23T01:26:36 < PaulFertser> What stm32 has just 2 hw breakpoints btw?
2021-09-23T01:27:03 < octorian> AFAIK, it does.  I know with my ST-Link it won't let me set more than that.
2021-09-23T01:27:49 < octorian> One thing I did notice is that the J-Link doesn't support ETM unless you get the absolutely-highest-end one of their products.  (Haven't used ETM myself yet, but I sometimes see people pushing it as a useful feature)
2021-09-23T01:28:10 < PaulFertser> octorian: what's your target MCU?
2021-09-23T01:28:28 < octorian> I've got two projects going right now.  One is on an L0, and the other is on an F4.
2021-09-23T01:30:17 < PaulFertser> octorian: I'm sure F4 has more than 2 breakpoits.
2021-09-23T01:31:04 < PaulFertser> L0 is Cortex-M0 based it doesn't even have ITM, why do you mention ETM?
2021-09-23T01:32:45 < PaulFertser> octorian: https://github.com/orbcode/orbuculum offers solutions to do parallel trace with ice40.
2021-09-23T01:34:06 < octorian> I know the L0 doesn't have any of those fancy capabilities, but the F4 does.
2021-09-23T01:34:32 < kakium69> if you run into problems
2021-09-23T01:34:41 < kakium69> then buy JLINK EDU
2021-09-23T01:41:06 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVuZDtz-Aes scifi miniseries
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2021-09-23T11:46:23 < PaulFertser> If anyone's interested in how to make STM32 PWM output be gated by other timers here's a good reference: https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/issues/1057 . Apparently ST never got to documenting this properly.
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2021-09-23T14:14:38 < karlp> qyx: zyp: why is the StaticLibrary() ignoring the CPPPATH and TOOLCHAIN variables?! https://paste.centos.org/view/31010cae
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2021-09-23T14:17:25 < karlp> nvm, it's because I did StaticLibrary() instead of env.StaticLibrary()
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2021-09-23T14:45:46 < Helmholtz> Are busybox or toybox dependent on a Linux kernel?
2021-09-23T14:46:05 < Helmholtz> Can we run them in a ESP32 or STM32 board (and use UART TTY for interaction)
2021-09-23T14:47:48 < karlp> they depend on syscalls existing, as long as youy're providing them...
2021-09-23T14:47:56 < karlp> they don't care if it's linux or somethign else.
2021-09-23T14:49:45 < Helmholtz> Do usual embedded ROTSes like freeRTOS or Zephyr or NuttX have a shell like POSIX sh?
2021-09-23T14:50:40 < karlp> they can do.
2021-09-23T14:51:12 < karlp> freertos it's very much not in core kernel, but it might be in the extra stuff, zephyr and nuttx often have a console application you can enable.
2021-09-23T14:57:44 < Helmholtz> karlp, 👍
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2021-09-23T15:39:57 < mawk> it's my birthday Steffanx 
2021-09-23T15:40:08 < mawk> send me a nude picture of you as a present
2021-09-23T15:40:37 < ventyl> jesus SConstruct
2021-09-23T15:40:51 < mawk> the messiah returned?
2021-09-23T15:41:32 < ventyl> nope, a simple typo :)
2021-09-23T15:42:52 < ventyl> TIL that Sodoma and Jericho events as depicted by the bible were most probably caused by the explosion of meteorite similar to Tunguska one
2021-09-23T15:47:32 < mouseghost> => meteorites are due to the fact that men have butt-sex
2021-09-23T15:47:41 < mouseghost> among other natural distasters
2021-09-23T15:47:49 < mouseghost> so gays are to blame for every humanity problem
2021-09-23T15:48:07 < mouseghost> (ofc /s)
2021-09-23T15:48:22 < mouseghost> gosh thatd be funnier if i still had my wikipedia cloak
2021-09-23T15:56:17 < ventyl> how can you have such thoughts coming from such a country?
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2021-09-23T16:00:53 < karlp> for anyone playing at home, (hah) cmsis-dsp in scons with laks, autoselecting arch: https://github.com/karlp/l2-simple/blob/main/SConstruct#L44-L86
2021-09-23T16:03:32 < Helmholtz> ventyl, How does that explain Lut's wife turning to salt?
2021-09-23T16:04:11 < ventyl> Helmholtz: sorry, I ever only got to Noah with bible reading. no guts to continue reading further
2021-09-23T16:05:10 < zyp> karlp, fun
2021-09-23T16:05:31 < karlp> tweaked the freertos stuff to autoselect port too after poking the environment a little bit to understand better.
2021-09-23T16:06:07 < zyp> those defines in dsp_opts could be added to the cortex-m platform defs if they're reasonably standard
2021-09-23T16:09:25 < karlp> yeah, wanted to get it working first :)
2021-09-23T16:09:30 < karlp> not sure how standard they are honestly.
2021-09-23T16:09:45 < karlp> note the freertos ones higher up are ~similar, but different.
2021-09-23T16:10:37 < karlp> it doesn't need a dict either, but I thought I would need more options when i started :)
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2021-09-23T17:19:44 < englishman> happy birthday mawk
2021-09-23T17:27:49 < Steffanx> Happy birthday mawk 
2021-09-23T17:29:34 < Steffanx> No nudes for you.. 
2021-09-23T17:32:41 < mouseghost> happy birthdaty makw
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2021-09-23T20:11:23 < karlp> heh, how do I C again? "ts->filter[i].init(filter_coeffs, 1, 2^15);"
2021-09-23T20:13:07 < jpa-> you C very well
2021-09-23T20:13:12 < jpa-> i C your bug also
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2021-09-23T20:53:17 < mawk> thanks
2021-09-23T20:53:27 < mawk> not with 2^15 karlp 
2021-09-23T20:53:30 < mawk> that means xor
2021-09-23T20:54:27 < mawk> unless that's what you meant
2021-09-23T20:56:59 < karlp> that's.... the joke, that's why I pasted it.  it was absolutely not what I intended :)
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2021-09-23T21:01:14 < mawk> :(
2021-09-23T21:02:00 < PaulFertser> tfw mawk is the most naive channel participant
2021-09-23T21:05:09 < PaulFertser> btw, stm32 pros, have you seen my morning link about how one timer can be used to gate another PWMing timer? Seems to be rather poorly documented.
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2021-09-23T21:08:26 < srk> yes :(
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2021-09-23T21:23:46 < kakium69> evenings
2021-09-23T21:23:52 < mawk> to check nb-iot coverage in other countries I ship devices by mail with a sd card logger thing
2021-09-23T21:24:01 < mawk> then someone ships it back and I look at the logs
2021-09-23T21:24:21 < mawk> it's a very efficient process, which is why it's been a year and I've only covered 4 or 5 European countries that way
2021-09-23T21:25:17 < mawk> maybe my boss could authorize a road trip where I go around europe to "test connectivity"
2021-09-23T21:25:24 < mawk> but I don't have a driver's license
2021-09-23T21:28:13 < mawk> the sd card thing I use is called "openlog"
2021-09-23T21:28:20 < mawk> and it's a bit shitty
2021-09-23T21:28:46 < mawk> it logs just a single channel, doesn't support hotplug of the sd
2021-09-23T21:34:46 < specing> mawk: nb-iot?
2021-09-23T21:35:56 < PaulFertser> mawk: I wonder how you discriminate lack of coverage vs. shielding by train cabin or something like that?
2021-09-23T21:37:31 < mawk> yes specing why?
2021-09-23T21:37:46 < mawk> PaulFertser I tell the guy I ship it to to leave out in a nice clear area with view of the sky
2021-09-23T21:37:57 < mawk> but nb-iot is quite penetrating
2021-09-23T21:38:06 < mawk> so it's not that required
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2021-09-23T21:39:01 < PaulFertser> mawk: ah, you mean you basically probe it only on the final destination, I thought you're tracking it along the way too.
2021-09-23T21:39:06 < PaulFertser> Like shipping it powered.
2021-09-23T21:39:14 < mawk> yes it has to be ship powered
2021-09-23T21:39:20 < catphish> morning
2021-09-23T21:39:29 < mawk> so I get additional info on the way there
2021-09-23T21:39:38 < mawk> which is nice but not stricly required
2021-09-23T21:40:00 < mawk> the devices can't be turned off or on by a layperson, so they're constantly powered
2021-09-23T21:40:16 < mawk> I think the expected lifetime is 5 years with this kind of battery
2021-09-23T21:40:50 < mawk> and probably 10 days with the openlog plugged in, I don't trust them to have made it low power
2021-09-23T21:44:03 < mawk> also there's is coverage everywhere PaulFertser , that's not the question
2021-09-23T21:44:17 < mawk> the question is whether nb-iot is specifically supported, and whether Vodafone have roaming agreements with them
2021-09-23T21:44:33 < mawk> both things that are not publicly available, or if they are the info can't really be trusted
2021-09-23T21:44:59 < mawk> vodafone built in a list of compatible operators in the sim card, but the list is wrong
2021-09-23T21:45:07 < PaulFertser> Weird stuff
2021-09-23T21:45:43 < mawk> they put operators that don't do nb-iot in them; so when we connect to one by accident we have to disable automatic registration and try to connect manually to every single operator in existence we've determined is compatible until we can connect
2021-09-23T21:46:26 < mawk> all of this because vodafone never fixes this builtin list
2021-09-23T21:54:08 < mawk> I made my own precision probe with pogo pins I soldered to a piece of prototype board, then secured with scotch tape on the board
2021-09-23T21:54:12 < mawk> it looks very pro
2021-09-23T21:55:26 < mawk> and hot glue of course
2021-09-23T21:55:27 < mawk> https://i.imgur.com/hLrn0jm.jpg
2021-09-23T21:59:52 < Steffanx> professional
2021-09-23T22:00:52 < PaulFertser> Is that a one-time operation?
2021-09-23T22:01:21 < mawk> not really PaulFertser I have 10 more devices to analyze like that
2021-09-23T22:01:39 < mawk> analyze means tape the probe, wait 1h for logs, then go to the next one
2021-09-23T22:01:41 < PaulFertser> Hm, why do not you solder to testpoints then?
2021-09-23T22:01:47 < mawk> the board is live
2021-09-23T22:01:52 < PaulFertser> d-oh
2021-09-23T22:02:04 < mawk> if I reboot it I lose whatever broken state I want to debug
2021-09-23T22:02:16 < mawk> so yeah I could solder to it but then be very careful to not make it reboot
2021-09-23T22:03:27 < PaulFertser> While waiting for the first logs you can 3d-print some shit to have more reliable rig for the others ;)
2021-09-23T22:05:41 < mawk> what I rather want to do is make a proper thing I can connect reliably
2021-09-23T22:05:46 < mawk> like 3D printed yes
2021-09-23T22:05:52 < mawk> but I know nothing about that
2021-09-23T22:05:58 < Steffanx> what are you waiting for?
2021-09-23T22:05:58 < mawk> so I asked someone else to design it
2021-09-23T22:06:17 < PaulFertser> Hm, so it's a one-wire bi-directional interface?
2021-09-23T22:06:26 < mawk> no it's just uart output
2021-09-23T22:06:31 < mawk> so uni-directional
2021-09-23T22:06:41 < Steffanx> Its not like you're not slacking all day long already, mawk :P
2021-09-23T22:06:49 < PaulFertser> How do you trigger sending the logs then?
2021-09-23T22:07:00 < mawk> I can't slack off anymore Steffanx my boss wants me at the office so he can watch me
2021-09-23T22:07:07 < Steffanx> haha
2021-09-23T22:07:19 < mawk> I don't PaulFertser , I just wait
2021-09-23T22:07:25 < mawk> the device logs stuff to uart every hour
2021-09-23T22:07:36 < PaulFertser> Interesting idea
2021-09-23T22:08:07 < mawk> it would be nice to have a pin to force wakeup yes
2021-09-23T22:08:18 < mawk> that would make me save 30 minutes in average per device
2021-09-23T22:09:53 < mawk> well it's just uart output PaulFertser , it's normal to have that no?
2021-09-23T22:09:54 < PaulFertser> stm32 has one, called "tamper"
2021-09-23T22:10:07 < mawk> ah yes, and that makes a RTC wake event?
2021-09-23T22:10:22 < mawk> it's called like that because it's used to detect opening of the case?
2021-09-23T22:10:23 < PaulFertser> I think it's another event but same effect.
2021-09-23T22:10:24 < mawk> like tampering with device
2021-09-23T22:10:25 < PaulFertser> Yes
2021-09-23T22:10:28 < mawk> ah right
2021-09-23T22:10:39 < mawk> good idea, I could ask my boss to put a testpad for it on the pcb
2021-09-23T22:11:15 < PaulFertser> mawk: UART is normal, but if the device was designed with this hour-long procedure with pogo pins in mind that's just rather odd. If it wasn't, why is it sending anything to uart at all ever? If it is, why is it so ghetto?
2021-09-23T22:11:27 < PaulFertser> s/pins/pin/
2021-09-23T22:11:30 < mawk> it wasn't designed for that in mind PaulFertser 
2021-09-23T22:11:38 < mawk> it wasn't designed at all for logging during normal operation
2021-09-23T22:12:00 < mawk> it wasn't designed to have bugs that require debugging lol
2021-09-23T22:12:10 < mawk> which is why I have to do this ghetto thing
2021-09-23T22:12:29 < mawk> it's sending to uart every hour, even when nothing is connected
2021-09-23T22:12:34 < mawk> which is not ideal for the battery life yeah
2021-09-23T22:14:12 < PaulFertser> So is this sending log once an hour logic was an after-thought added to firmware later?
2021-09-23T22:14:36 < mawk> no, it's been in the firmware since forever
2021-09-23T22:14:47 < mawk> it's not really sending log every hour, it's just doing its regular business of acquiring radar data every hour
2021-09-23T22:14:56 < mawk> and during the acquiring of data it logs stuff to console
2021-09-23T22:15:12 < mawk> we never disabled logging to uart even in the production devices, i don't know why, but today that is helping me
2021-09-23T22:17:03 < PaulFertser> I guess I see now, reading about the log I assumed some historical data, not just current operational info.
2021-09-23T22:20:40 < mawk> to find the right pads I used altium, it's hard to use and eats all my cpu
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2021-09-23T22:49:33 < qyx> mawk is in radar business?
2021-09-23T22:52:00 < mawk> yes qyx I am radaring things
2021-09-23T22:52:44 < PaulFertser> So mawk, did you see anything interesting in the logs?
2021-09-23T22:53:08 < PaulFertser> (guess you captured some by now)
2021-09-23T22:53:23 < mawk> it's been 3 days I'm capturing PaulFertser 
2021-09-23T22:53:24 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-23T22:53:38 < mawk> interesting I don't know, but I captured stuff yes
2021-09-23T22:53:49 < mawk> the logs say something is wrong with the nb-iot
2021-09-23T22:54:20 < PaulFertser> I wonder how debug from processing current data can help with seeing what wrong happened to firmware (I assume that's only firmware since it works after you reset just the MCU) in the past.
2021-09-23T22:55:13 < mawk> it's assuming the code got stuck at some point in the state machine, and by looking at logs know I can know what happened
2021-09-23T22:55:30 < mawk> it may be that the devices start working again when they're on my desk, then I can't do much
2021-09-23T22:55:44 < mawk> but if they're still broken on my desk then by looking at them I can know what's wrong, hopefully
2021-09-23T23:01:52 < PaulFertser> Do you mean so far the logs you captured are all "normal"?
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2021-09-23T23:02:43 < Steffanx> Don't you have a blinky led to know it still works? And a watchdog running?
2021-09-23T23:02:55 < mawk> no led, yes watchdog
2021-09-23T23:03:09 < mawk> well so far the logs mostly point to a bug in the nb-iot code PaulFertser 
2021-09-23T23:04:00 < mawk> the code isn't stuck Steffanx , it's just doing something unexpected
2021-09-23T23:04:53 < catphish> i just learned that in USA it's not recommended to leave eggs out of a regrigerator for more than 2 hours, what the hell is wrong with their eggs?
2021-09-23T23:05:15 < catphish> mine last a month at room temperature
2021-09-23T23:05:22 < mawk> catphish: they clean their eggs
2021-09-23T23:05:30 < mawk> so the protective shell on the egg surface is gone, and bacterias rush in
2021-09-23T23:05:35 < mawk> if they are left off the fridge
2021-09-23T23:05:43 < qyx> wut
2021-09-23T23:05:48 < catphish> i think i've heard of that
2021-09-23T23:06:37 < qyx> do they clean them in H2SO4 or what
2021-09-23T23:06:46 < mawk> yes qyx because americans are puritans in every aspect of their lives, and they clean their food with chemicals
2021-09-23T23:06:57 < mawk> because a chicken egg is gross, it comes right out of the sex hole of the chicken
2021-09-23T23:07:02 < mawk> so it needs extra cleansing
2021-09-23T23:07:17 < catphish> scrubbed with hot water to make them look cleaner i guess
2021-09-23T23:07:30 < mawk> they also cleans their chickens with chlorine 
2021-09-23T23:07:38 < mawk> no catphish not just that
2021-09-23T23:07:40 < mawk> soap or something else
2021-09-23T23:07:49 < mawk> that makes the shell porous
2021-09-23T23:08:09 < catphish> i've heard cleaning is bad, never sure whether to wipe poop off them or not
2021-09-23T23:08:40 < catphish> mawk: is there a genuine reason for this?
2021-09-23T23:08:40 < mawk> well you can clean them, just before eating
2021-09-23T23:08:47 < mawk> but not long before
2021-09-23T23:08:56 < mawk> genuine reason for cleaning them?
2021-09-23T23:09:00 < catphish> mawk: yeah
2021-09-23T23:09:10 < catphish> (the american way) (TM)
2021-09-23T23:09:17 < mawk> it's because of how they handle chickens, they have lots of disease or something
2021-09-23T23:09:22 < mawk> so they have to clean everything
2021-09-23T23:09:26 < mawk> I think
2021-09-23T23:09:43 < mawk> like they have super industrial style of raising the chickens, that can barely move and are full of disease
2021-09-23T23:10:07 < catphish> i'm amazed actually that caged chicken eggs in uk are as clean as they are, they must have a way to remove the egg from the nest immediately
2021-09-23T23:12:07 < qyx> in uk they raise their chicken with love
2021-09-23T23:12:33 < catphish> qyx: not all of them :(
2021-09-23T23:13:17 < catphish> qyx: i have chickens, i get them from farms when they're 18 months old, some look okay, but the ones they keep in cages look terrible :(
2021-09-23T23:14:06 < catphish> they look much happier after 3 months in my orchard :)
2021-09-23T23:18:04 < englishman> yes factory egg farms the eggs fall through a grate and are removed immediately
2021-09-23T23:18:47 < englishman> once refrigerated eggs should generally not be removed from the fridge and allowed to warm unless they are used. but this is true of many perishable goods
2021-09-23T23:19:05 < englishman> and factory eggs are refrigerated immediately so they last longer
2021-09-23T23:24:51 < catphish> englishman: not in UK
2021-09-23T23:25:03 < catphish> (they're never refrigerated here)
2021-09-23T23:25:10 < englishman> neato
2021-09-23T23:25:48 < catphish> but makes sense that they'd have a way to remove them from the chicken cage asap so they don't get pooped on
2021-09-23T23:26:40 < englishman> they do stay a bit cleaner but it's just how they are harvested, automatically
2021-09-23T23:28:31 < Steffanx> Your eggs never come with a feather still attached catphish?
2021-09-23T23:29:01 < steve__> eggs of a feather?
2021-09-23T23:30:36 < catphish> Steffanx: well my own eggs often have small amount of poop and feather attached
2021-09-23T23:30:59 < Steffanx> i mean the ones from the supermarket
2021-09-23T23:31:23 < catphish> Steffanx: nope, they're perfectly clean, that's why i was wondering how they're harvested
2021-09-23T23:32:04 < catphish> i understand they're not allowed to be washed, so they must immediately roll away from the birds
2021-09-23T23:32:23 < catphish> (they come out clean, the poop and feathers get attaches later)
2021-09-23T23:33:47 < englishman> they are not allowed to be washed?
2021-09-23T23:37:28 < catphish> nope: "In the UK, Grade A hen eggs may not be washed because the process is thought to aid the transfer of harmful bacteria like salmonella from the outside to the inside of the egg,"
2021-09-23T23:38:07 < catphish> (those are the kind of eggs sold to the public, rather than used in factories to make other stuff)
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2021-09-23T23:40:00 < catphish> just looked it up, apparantly it's illegal to sell washed eggs in the uk, and illegal to sell unwashed eggs in USA, weird :)
2021-09-23T23:42:33 < catphish> i also learned that UK is now declared free of salmonella, yay, so we can eat eggs raw, if you're into that kinda thing :|
2021-09-23T23:44:08 < specing> I eat raw eggs in tiramisu
2021-09-23T23:44:12 < specing> it's real good, too
2021-09-23T23:46:07 < catphish> i had Steak tartare last time i went to france, only time in my life i've got food poisoning :(
2021-09-23T23:48:43 < sauce> the best meal i had in france was at an indian restaurant
2021-09-23T23:53:41 < mawk> stop your culinary terrorism sauce 
2021-09-23T23:58:22 < mouseghost> and ive eaten at vietnam restaurant in berlin
2021-09-23T23:59:51 < catphish> i rarely leave my home town
--- Day changed Fri Sep 24 2021
2021-09-24T00:00:03 < catphish> my wife isn't much into adventure
2021-09-24T00:01:23 < englishman> plenty of restaurants serve carbonara and other dishes with raw egg
2021-09-24T00:01:32 < englishman> i had a tartare last night
2021-09-24T00:01:33 < englishman> delish
2021-09-24T00:02:08 < englishman> sauce: same here except lebanese
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2021-09-24T00:08:50 < mawk> you can get a second wife just for adventures catphish 
2021-09-24T00:08:59 < mawk> I did something like that it's great
2021-09-24T00:27:13 < catphish> mawk: not a terrible idea i suppose
2021-09-24T00:27:38 < Steffanx> Or just take your current wife on some adventure 
2021-09-24T00:28:01 < Steffanx> Make her into it 😋
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2021-09-24T00:30:03 < catphish> i think she'll get there
2021-09-24T00:30:35 < catphish> but having a second one for adventures while the first one stays home and looks after chickens sounds good too
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2021-09-24T00:38:31 < Steffanx> And then the 1st because ex and you are even more sad?
2021-09-24T00:39:25 < catphish> well hopefully not
2021-09-24T00:40:44 < Steffanx> Are you still in this living together apart situation with your ex-gf mawk?
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2021-09-24T03:02:46 < emeb> anyone have any experience with STM32G0x1 parts? I've got a brand new G071 Nucleo here and I'm trying to bring up my usual LED blinky + USART test on it and having trouble.
2021-09-24T03:03:47 < emeb> HAL_UART_Init() is failing and the failure mode changes depending on what optimization levels I use.
2021-09-24T03:04:21 < emeb> First time I've ever seen the init routine bomb out.
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2021-09-24T07:05:21 < jpa-> emeb should check that compiler is targeting cortex-m0 and not cortex-m3
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2021-09-24T12:06:17 < spacebyte> Hi anyone w/ experience on lwip? I have a linux program connecting to several ports on a stm32f7 and 2 of the ports keep failling to connect. With wireshark I saw that the board, on these 2 specific ports, is not answering to the SYN (with SYN,ACK)
2021-09-24T12:06:41 < spacebyte> Nonetheless I can connect to those ports with netcat and send data
2021-09-24T12:07:41 < spacebyte> All other tcp ports are working. It seems to have happened when the program was already connected to the ports and someone tried to make another connection
2021-09-24T12:10:12 < karlp> do the "working" ports accept backed up connections? or is that thegeneral problem?
2021-09-24T12:10:48 < spacebyte> what do you mean "backed up"? All other ports accept connections from the program or netcat (not at the same time)
2021-09-24T12:11:16 < karlp> so like, listen(2) has a parameter that is how many connections to allow to be backed up.
2021-09-24T12:11:25 < karlp> does lwip have 0 for that?
2021-09-24T12:11:32 < karlp> or is it configurable? or pooled?
2021-09-24T12:11:46 < spacebyte> hm I have to check that
2021-09-24T12:11:47 < karlp> (I'm not an lwip guy, there are few others here who have used it a lot though if you wait)
2021-09-24T12:12:06 < karlp> what I mean is, is it reallyjust this problem port, or is it generally related to backed up connections?
2021-09-24T12:12:15 < spacebyte> thank you anyway! Let me check lwip's configuration
2021-09-24T12:12:22 < spacebyte> it seems to only be on these 2 ports
2021-09-24T12:12:38 < karlp> right, but are you _really- using the same multi connection behaviour as on other ports?
2021-09-24T12:12:48 < karlp> because it seems _reallllly_ unlikely that it woudl behave differently on just two ports...
2021-09-24T12:13:34 < spacebyte> ah. as far as I know I'm not supposed to accept multi connection on the ports. On linux all connections share the same configuration, but I have to check lwip
2021-09-24T12:14:25 < karlp> it's not a port like dns or something that you're being "clever" with and that lwip is already trying to handle internally or something either right?
2021-09-24T12:14:55 < spacebyte> no just several tcp ports where I can read data from the board
2021-09-24T12:15:52 < spacebyte> I've rebooted the linux cpu but nothing changed. I haven't rebooted the board because I suspect the problem will go away and it might be hard to replicate
2021-09-24T12:16:42 < karlp> mawk is doing mmwave shits?
2021-09-24T12:17:41 < karlp> nice shipping products with TI dev kits bolted in :)
2021-09-24T12:23:25 < karlp> attach debugger.  default openocd confings at least won't reset, but will attach as is :)
2021-09-24T12:29:15 < spacebyte> the board is enclosed and hard to acess physically but easy to power-cycle :/ I'm going to try and replicate it on the bench otherwise I won't be able to test any solution decently
2021-09-24T12:52:36 < jpa-> spacebyte: when the connection fails, does that happen right after some other connection attempt? i.e. could it be that the board is busy processing previous packets?
2021-09-24T12:53:29 < jpa-> and with netcat, does the connection actually work? does netcat -v say it gets connected?
2021-09-24T12:54:47 < spacebyte> jpa: we noticed the problem when someone tried to create connections when they existed already. We stopped everything and then could not connect to 2 of the ports.
2021-09-24T12:55:04 < spacebyte> with netcat I can get communication with the ports. ie I can send and receive data
2021-09-24T12:55:45 < spacebyte> I believe it might have something to do with SO_REUSEDADDR and TIME_WAIT, but not sure as it is not enabled on lwip
2021-09-24T12:56:36 < jpa-> to me it sounds more like your code is not calling accept() and then lwip stops responding to new connections until it does
2021-09-24T12:57:57 < spacebyte> but why it works on the other ports? I have 8 tcp ports (all created the same) on this board and only 2 have this behavious
2021-09-24T12:58:09 < spacebyte> would accept() be called after receiving the SYN,ACK?
2021-09-24T12:58:35 < jpa-> are all 8 ports handled on same thread?
2021-09-24T12:58:49 < spacebyte> no, 1 thread per port + lwip thread
2021-09-24T12:59:01 < jpa-> so maybe the threads handling the 2 ports have crashed
2021-09-24T12:59:20 < spacebyte> but I can get a connection with netcat :) and see data coming in
2021-09-24T12:59:40 < spacebyte> I'll have to check netcat's source to see what they are doing when opening tcp sockets
2021-09-24T12:59:59 < jpa-> do you get connection with netcat at the same time when you cannot get connection with some other method?
2021-09-24T13:00:02 < jpa-> or at different time?
2021-09-24T13:01:06 < spacebyte> in sequence, so: I try with netcat, get a connection then after a while I close. Then I try the linux program and get no connection. and repeat
2021-09-24T13:01:32 < jpa-> and the repeat attempt (without reboot of server) with netcat works?
2021-09-24T13:01:46 < spacebyte> when it first happened we were trying for some time with the program, and out of desperation someone suggested netcat and that's why I noticed we could get a netcat connection
2021-09-24T13:01:54 < spacebyte> yes no reboots on the server or client pc
2021-09-24T13:02:09 < jpa-> so compare the packets it sends with wireshark
2021-09-24T13:02:14 < spacebyte> but nonetheless I've reboot the client
2021-09-24T13:02:25 < spacebyte> I did they seem to be all the same (window, mss, etc)
2021-09-24T13:02:29 < spacebyte> but I have to check further
2021-09-24T13:03:16 < spacebyte> the only thing different is that with netcat there's the 3 way packets, and w/ our program there's just a bunch of SYN and retransmissions
2021-09-24T13:03:29 < jpa-> does your program do anything else than try to open connection to the one port?
2021-09-24T13:04:19 < spacebyte> related to tcp connections no. It tries to open several to this board
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2021-09-24T13:04:45 < spacebyte> you make think I should try multiple netcat connections and replicate the program behaviour :)
2021-09-24T13:05:00 < jpa-> i think you should edit your program to only try the one port first
2021-09-24T13:05:09 < spacebyte> yes that's a good idea
2021-09-24T13:05:25 < jpa-> because it is entirely possible that handling the other connections is somehow blocking the thread that should handle the failing connection
2021-09-24T13:06:49 < spacebyte> that would be a whole mess of trouble for me. But yeah I have several things to test thank you!
2021-09-24T13:07:04 < spacebyte> could it be that having several connections at the same time it messing with the tcp window?
2021-09-24T13:07:12 < jpa-> unlikely
2021-09-24T13:07:20 < jpa-> tcp window does not affect handling SYN packets
2021-09-24T13:07:27 < spacebyte> alright
2021-09-24T13:08:42 < jpa-> also check if you get any error return codes from lwip functions
2021-09-24T13:08:54 < jpa-> for example if you run out of buffer space, the functions will return error
2021-09-24T13:10:46 < spacebyte> I'll have to double check, as I'm checking return errors but might be missing some
2021-09-24T13:11:25 < jpa-> i would specifically check the accept() call, because it is central to the SYN/SYNACK sequence
2021-09-24T13:12:14 < spacebyte> you mean on linux side?
2021-09-24T13:13:30 < jpa-> no, lwip side
2021-09-24T13:13:46 < jpa-> why would you call accept() on linux side?
2021-09-24T13:14:21 < spacebyte> ah yeah, I was not thinking. on the server side
2021-09-24T13:15:10 < karlp> "accept can'-t fail right?!"
2021-09-24T13:15:27 < karlp> C's always so nice and compact until you actualyl check all the errors and return codes you actually need to :)
2021-09-24T13:16:01 < jpa-> and when you think about all C return codes and errors, every other language looks cool until you actually try handling the exceptions reasonably :)
2021-09-24T13:16:33 < karlp> well, some of them do make it a little easier :)
2021-09-24T13:16:42 < jpa-> but rust gets best of both worlds: you can't stop thinking about error returns, but because you just learn to .unwrap() everywhere, you still don't get proper handling
2021-09-24T13:16:52 < karlp> yeah, that bothered me.
2021-09-24T13:17:20 < karlp> I like hte idea of "let it bubble up and catch at the top" but it seemed to be done badly and inconsistently in rust
2021-09-24T13:17:24 < karlp> it felt like java 1.
2021-09-24T13:17:32 < karlp> 5 when people were _jsut_ learning this shit
2021-09-24T13:21:26 < zyp> IMO it's better to just let an exception escalate until it kills your app with a traceback than force you to add some halfassed handling that ends up just silencing it without solving the problem, leading to subtle issues
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2021-09-24T13:38:09 < karlp> yep.
2021-09-24T13:39:14 < karlp> found so many bugs in some old java code when I removed ~all(most) of the lower level catches.  lots of them were just straight up swallowing exceptions.
2021-09-24T13:39:49 < karlp> "how is this a null pointer?! this should have been impossible to run?!" "Oh, the earlier code threw an exception, but we just ignored it and pretended it was still valid.... right..."
2021-09-24T13:40:48 < ventyl> code I am dealing with right now is that kind of code
2021-09-24T13:41:14 < ventyl> I haven't dug deep enough to find out juicy catches but there is no glimpse of smart pointers at all
2021-09-24T13:41:38 < ventyl> nor any modern (less than 10 years old) coding style 
2021-09-24T13:41:56 < karlp> zyp: you should really hav ea bit of a README in your laks project so people have a little bit of a clue of what it is...
2021-09-24T13:44:16 < zyp> karlp, I even started a documentation effort: https://dump.jvnv.net/laks_doc/ :)
2021-09-24T13:47:35 < karlp> is that from another unpushed branch? ;)
2021-09-24T13:48:01 < zyp> no, it's uncommitted changes to the v2 branch :)
2021-09-24T13:48:15 < karlp> oh, even better :)
2021-09-24T13:48:35 < zyp> just like all the other v2 stuff I pushed last week
2021-09-24T13:49:37 < zyp> I'm bad at following «push early and push often» and tend to wait until things are done
2021-09-24T13:54:31 < ventyl> where does the code live in?
2021-09-24T13:55:24 < zyp> https://cgit.jvnv.net/laks/
2021-09-24T13:59:53 < jadew> man vs woman MMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8XEtqNS3XE
2021-09-24T14:08:33 < Steffanx> Boring. Didn't open.
2021-09-24T14:09:01 < jadew> I'm watching it now for the first time
2021-09-24T14:09:27 < jadew> I think the guy is holding off, but he's also pretty bad
2021-09-24T14:11:09 < jadew> the guy won
2021-09-24T14:11:13 < jadew> via submission
2021-09-24T14:13:14 < jadew> the chicks was far superior technically, but the guy was able to just absorb it all and still overpower her
2021-09-24T14:13:17 < jadew> not surprised
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2021-09-24T15:06:52 < Steffanx> Still boring. Didn't watch 💩
2021-09-24T15:20:36 < mawk> I did the thing to be printed in resin or whatever PaulFertser 
2021-09-24T15:20:58 < PaulFertser> mawk: fancy :)
2021-09-24T15:21:11 < PaulFertser> SLA printers give high precision
2021-09-24T15:21:33 < mawk> yeah it needs quite high precision
2021-09-24T15:21:37 < mawk> the test points are very small
2021-09-24T15:21:49 < mawk> so any deviation from the vertical and the pogo pins won't make contacr
2021-09-24T15:21:51 < mawk> contact
2021-09-24T15:23:29 < PaulFertser> Your rig didn't look very precise and still worked
2021-09-24T15:23:47 < PaulFertser> So I guess one-time hand adjustment can compensate lack of precision.
2021-09-24T15:24:10 < PaulFertser> But of course it's much nicer and reliable whan a proper tool is designed and used. Please do not forget to share the pic when it's ready.
2021-09-24T15:24:23 < mawk> well what I did was painfully adjusted by hands over a minute until I got clear contact
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2021-09-24T15:24:32 < mawk> and the pin point kept slipping
2021-09-24T15:24:45 < mawk> so I had to dent the copper pad first with a punch
2021-09-24T15:24:57 < jpa-> :D
2021-09-24T15:24:57 < mawk> which is not very pro
2021-09-24T15:27:09 < PaulFertser> On a live board!
2021-09-24T15:27:24 < mawk> yes
2021-09-24T15:27:50 < PaulFertser> At this point it seems like soldering to that TP would have been a safer way :)
2021-09-24T15:31:39 < mawk> yes maybe
2021-09-24T15:32:44 < jpa-> using untented vias as testpads works quite well for small sizes, easy to keep alignment
2021-09-24T15:43:03 < zyp> are we doing testjigs?
2021-09-24T15:43:09 < zyp> here's mine: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/imd1f.jpg
2021-09-24T15:46:15 < zyp> mawk, you should probably get a sensepeek kit
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2021-09-24T15:46:44 < zyp> I've got one of these, they're awesome: https://sensepeek.com/pcbite-kit-with-2x-200mhz-and-4x-sp10-handsfree-probes
2021-09-24T16:37:26 < mawk> nice zyp 
2021-09-24T16:37:28 < mawk> so you have this metal thing to push down on the pogo pin?
2021-09-24T16:37:32 < mawk> I planned to use an elastic band but it's not very pro
2021-09-24T16:37:38 < mawk> ah nice this pcbite thing
2021-09-24T16:37:40 < mawk> even though the name means pcdick
2021-09-24T16:37:42 < mawk> in french
2021-09-24T16:39:21 < jpa-> who wouldn't want to dick around their pcb a bit
2021-09-24T16:39:42 < karlp> hrm, I kinda want to make scons -c _not_ remove the static library it builds from cmsis-dsp.
2021-09-24T16:39:49 < karlp> I'm not actually touching it at any point.
2021-09-24T16:39:54 < karlp> problem for another day though.
2021-09-24T16:40:33 < jpa-> if not env.GetOption('clean'):  ... whatever needed to build it ...
2021-09-24T16:50:46 < karlp> that works surprisingly well.
2021-09-24T16:50:59 < karlp> you can't explicitly clean it anymore though, but, really, that's probably fine.
2021-09-24T16:51:26 < karlp> though it's scons, I shouldn't ever even bother with clean-build right, just trust that incremental is always correct :)
2021-09-24T16:54:28 < jpa-> https://scons.org/doc/2.0.1/HTML/scons-user/x3129.html  hmm, apparently there is an official way also
2021-09-24T16:55:18 < jpa-> ff you have all build files under a build directory, it seems fine not to clean absolutely everything - one can after all do  rm -rf build  to make sure
2021-09-24T16:56:29 < karlp> that "official" way doens't actualyl do what I want though
2021-09-24T16:56:45 < karlp> it leaves the lib in place, but scons -c; scons happily rebuilds all the .o's int he library
2021-09-24T16:57:05 < karlp> you're way worked nicely :)
2021-09-24T16:57:05 < jpa-> heh :)
2021-09-24T17:01:23 < karlp> now, wwhat happened to my rtos detection in openocd?!
2021-09-24T17:03:13 < jpa-> the friday spirit broke it
2021-09-24T17:05:04 < karlp> fucking tell me about it.
2021-09-24T17:05:10 < karlp> I just wanted to get some fucking dsp filters working
2021-09-24T17:05:16 < karlp> but i'm still getting just 0.0 out of it 
2021-09-24T17:05:25 < karlp> want to leave early out to the usmmer house for the weekend
2021-09-24T17:06:05 < jpa-> you have summer houses in iceland too? even though you have no summer?
2021-09-24T17:06:26 < karlp> same summer you have
2021-09-24T17:06:31 < jpa-> :|
2021-09-24T17:10:57 < karlp> rebuild, reflash, detected again :|
2021-09-24T17:11:03 < karlp> fucking flky shit
2021-09-24T17:11:27 < karlp> I'm pretty sure it realllly doesnt like trying to determine OS at connect time, when it's likely to have different code on it.
2021-09-24T17:14:20 < mawk> good idea jpa- 
2021-09-24T17:14:22 < mawk> untented via thing
2021-09-24T17:15:23 < jpa-> karlp: is there a particular reason for using autodetection instead of just specifying the type?
2021-09-24T17:15:45 < karlp> doesn't really matter, if you specify FreeRTOS instead of auto it just says "not found" sometimes.
2021-09-24T17:16:12 < jpa-> hmh
2021-09-24T17:16:13 < karlp> there's not any common symbol names I can see that would make it ever fail, at least with the rtos's currently supported
2021-09-24T17:16:32 < jpa-> would be nice if it would retry automatically on reset then
2021-09-24T17:16:35 < jpa-> but apparently no
2021-09-24T17:16:48 < jpa-> i guess one could bind the command to the reset event somehow
2021-09-24T17:17:01 < karlp> yeah, I'm sure things could be done there differently, but I'm not always trying to spend time on openocd guts.
2021-09-24T17:17:20 < karlp> one day, use pyocd, instead, so I might feel happier hacking on it....
2021-09-24T17:17:26 < karlp> it's all host side anyway....
2021-09-24T17:17:51 < karlp> (though today, in this particualr case, I am most definitely only using it because it could be cross compiled to this shitty mips board on the other side of the room)
2021-09-24T17:23:21 < karlp> PaulFertser: that's for you too: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/PJbcN.jpg
2021-09-24T17:24:32 < jpa-> looks pro
2021-09-24T17:24:41 < karlp> pro++
2021-09-24T17:24:51 < karlp> that's the name of the channel right?
2021-09-24T17:25:39 < karlp> the current source ships with windows software for talking to it's "serial port"  but it documents ~most of the API at least.
2021-09-24T17:25:50 < karlp> so ser2net lets me run that from my desktop
2021-09-24T17:26:05 < karlp> and openocd lets me stream trace over the network so I don't have to have my laptop over there on the workbench
2021-09-24T17:27:54 < karlp> bleh, now netbeans has decided to forget how to parse my file.
2021-09-24T17:27:57 < karlp> fucking numbunts
2021-09-24T17:28:12 < PaulFertser> karlp: thank you. What's the green board?
2021-09-24T17:30:06 < karlp> at the bottom? just unrelated stuff on the bench...
2021-09-24T17:31:45 < Ecco> Hi there :)
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2021-09-24T17:34:38 < karlp> bleh, my highpass is still giving me a wave with a dc component.
2021-09-24T17:34:44 < karlp> fuck ing maths, how does this work
2021-09-24T17:35:11 < jpa-> are you using an IIR filter with fixed point math or something?
2021-09-24T17:35:16 < jpa-> if you are, rounding matters
2021-09-24T17:35:56 < karlp> no, I've got an m4f now, using iir with floats.
2021-09-24T17:37:01 < karlp> there's a rounding flag on the cmsis dsp build but it's only description is "enables rounding"
2021-09-24T17:37:26 < jpa-> what are your coefficients?
2021-09-24T17:39:59 < PaulFertser> karlp: I mean what's the board running OpenOCD?
2021-09-24T17:40:41 < PaulFertser> (sorry about the sloppy way to ask that)
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2021-09-24T17:48:08 < karlp> PaulFertser: some leftover dragino2 ms14's, nothing very interesting, but not big enough to be running a python project for instance :)
2021-09-24T17:48:38 < karlp> jpa-: I've probably got somethign wrong, and i'ðm tyring to take shortcuts for friday afternoon so I'llsit back down with my maths on monday I think :)
2021-09-24T17:48:47 < karlp> done a lot of cleanup today, will just leave it I think
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2021-09-24T18:04:00 < mawk> I think I found a silicon bug in the nb-iot module
2021-09-24T18:04:14 < mawk> if you type certain commands too fast the module locks up with an error that's barely documented
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2021-09-24T18:04:19 < mawk> and you have to reboot it to make it work again
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2021-09-24T18:04:58 < mawk> but the module is "NRND" so nobody will fix its firmware
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2021-09-24T18:41:10 < mawk> at least it responds to software reboot, they were smart enough to handle the software reboot command independently of the AT command processing code
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2021-09-24T18:57:42 < bitmask> hey
2021-09-24T18:58:23 < bitmask> what was the innovation that caused incandescent lightbulbs to lower wattage with same output (IE: 60W equivalent that actually runs at <60W)
2021-09-24T19:05:32 < PaulFertser> Halogen probably?
2021-09-24T19:08:26 < bitmask> could be?
2021-09-24T19:10:56 < mawk> a new filament tech?
2021-09-24T19:11:12 < mawk> but halogen is incandescent PaulFertser ?
2021-09-24T19:11:17 < mawk> I thought not
2021-09-24T19:11:56 < mawk> the point of incandescent is to use the right blackbody temperature to emit the right color of light; and when you do that you don't have much latitude in the power you give I think
2021-09-24T19:12:39 < mawk> you have to sustain the temperature, fighting against radiative cooling which should always be the same for a given lightbulb size
2021-09-24T19:12:43 < mawk> but that's just a guess
2021-09-24T19:13:04 < Ecco> I'm reading the refman of an STM32H7. It has an SMPS as well as an LDO. There are several possible power schemes: LDO supply (makes sense), SMPS supply (makes sense), and then SMPS supplies LDO. What's the point?
2021-09-24T19:14:03 < Ecco> There's a 4th option, where the internal SMPS is used to power external components, and then the internal LDO is used to power Vcore. This one makes sense. But why chain the internal SMPS and internal LDO just to power vcore?
2021-09-24T19:19:53 < PaulFertser> mawk: "This s allows the filament to operate at a higher temperature than a standard incandescent lamp of similar power and operating life; this also produces light with higher luminous efficacy and color temperature"
2021-09-24T19:20:45 < bitmask> i dont think halogen is the right answer
2021-09-24T19:20:58 < mawk> weird PaulFertser 
2021-09-24T19:21:11 < mawk> I guess it's about emitting more visible light vs useless light maybe
2021-09-24T19:21:26 < mawk> higher temp = shifted more to visible and less to IR
2021-09-24T19:21:45 < mawk> so more light magic fluid per W spent
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2021-09-24T19:27:23 < bitmask> ok it is halogen
2021-09-24T19:27:33 < bitmask> i thought halogen always has an inner envelope but it doesnt
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2021-09-24T20:13:53 < spacebyte> jpa-: I haven't checked lwip side but you were right on one thing: it's not netcat that works, but the fact that it's only one connection being made. I've tried my program with just one connection (on the failing port) and it works
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2021-09-24T21:00:17 < emeb> follow up report on the usart issues I was having on a G071 nucleo yesterday. Spent some time playing around and discovered that it was the clocking. I'd used cubemx to generate the clock setup assuming an 8MHz clock input to the HSE from the STLink, however when it tried to switch over to HSE for the PLL source it was failing and falling back to the 16MHz HSI.
2021-09-24T21:00:49 < zyp> and that's just failing silently?
2021-09-24T21:00:57 < zyp> very useful :)
2021-09-24T21:01:02 < emeb> Trouble is that the HAL_RCC_OscConfig() function wasn't returning an error, so everything just marched on...
2021-09-24T21:01:43 < emeb> Then the USART setup failed because the BRG didn't have enough resolution to make 115200 from 16MHz w/ 16x oversampling.
2021-09-24T21:02:07 < zyp> haha
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2021-09-24T21:07:22 < emeb> So it seems that this nucleo doesn't have an 8MHz input to the HSE. Don't know if that's a hardware fault or someone forgot to solder one of the links on the board. Gotta get the schematic and look closer.
2021-09-24T21:08:38 < zyp> could be it's disconnected by default
2021-09-24T21:09:16 < emeb> since this is a G part the pinout is completely different from the F parts and the nucleo schematic is revised. Haven't found the UM for this version yet...
2021-09-24T21:12:25 < zyp> which nucleo?
2021-09-24T21:12:42 < emeb> Found it, and yes it defaults to not connecting the clock.
2021-09-24T21:12:53 < zyp> simple explanation then :)
2021-09-24T21:12:53 < emeb> file:///home/ericb/Downloads/um2324-stm32-nucleo64-boards-mb1360-stmicroelectronics.pdf
2021-09-24T21:13:29 < emeb> So nice when they change the defaults.
2021-09-24T21:33:23 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/zOnk6je.png
2021-09-24T21:34:03 < Ecco> Does this mean that, when using only the internal SMPS (and not using the internal LDO) then I can use only a 100uF cap on each VCAP pin?
2021-09-24T21:34:34 < Ecco> This would match what the reference manual says "The embedded voltage regulator (LDO) requires external capacitors to be connected to VCAP pins."
2021-09-24T21:34:37 < zyp> 100nF
2021-09-24T21:34:47 < zyp> and yes, that's how I read it
2021-09-24T21:34:49 < Ecco> Yeah, you're right, I'm soryr. Thanks :)
2021-09-24T21:35:36 < zyp> first time I see one that wants the pins connected together
2021-09-24T21:35:42 < zyp> which one is this?
2021-09-24T21:35:46 < Ecco> H725
2021-09-24T21:35:59 < Ecco> But then the datasheet says this: https://i.imgur.com/k0l3dDk.png
2021-09-24T21:36:23 < Ecco> And it got me confused: what is the "voltage regulator" they're talking about? The LDO? The SMPS?
2021-09-24T21:36:37 < Ecco> an explanation could be that they just copy and pasted the datasheet from another part that only had an LDO
2021-09-24T21:36:51 < zyp> could be
2021-09-24T21:37:08 < Ecco> So I looked at the schematics of their disco board
2021-09-24T21:37:10 < zyp> hmm, I misread your question
2021-09-24T21:37:25 < Ecco> oh?
2021-09-24T21:37:57 < zyp> I'm not sure what the requirements are with LDO off and SMPS on
2021-09-24T21:38:25 < Ecco> Well, technically the first image says "LDO enabled and SMPS enabled or disabled"
2021-09-24T21:38:32 < zyp> yes
2021-09-24T21:38:44 < Ecco> from a boolean standpoint, does it mean LDO & (SMPS | !SMPS)
2021-09-24T21:38:51 < Ecco> In other words, just "LDO" :-D
2021-09-24T21:38:54 < zyp> that's how it reads, but I'm not sure it makes sense
2021-09-24T21:39:19 < Ecco> Yeah, it's very not clear
2021-09-24T21:39:28 < Ecco> So I looked at their discovery board schematics
2021-09-24T21:40:02 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/IphZTlL.png
2021-09-24T21:40:18 < Ecco> Conveniently, the default configuration is meant for SMPS-only (which is what I want to do as well)
2021-09-24T21:40:58 < Ecco> So, they have solder bridges for two 2.2uF caps, but they don't solder them. Which would match our understanding of the application note I linked earlier.
2021-09-24T21:41:13 < Ecco> But then, what the hell are those two 4.7uF caps? namely, C23 and C54??
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2021-09-24T21:41:38 < zyp> let me have a look at how the power stuff fits together
2021-09-24T21:41:50 < Ecco> Awesome, thanks!
2021-09-24T21:42:00 < Ecco> I've been looking at this for a while now, and I just can't get it
2021-09-24T21:46:05 < zyp> https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/stm32h725ag.pdf pages 121-122
2021-09-24T21:48:38 < zyp> so you've presumably got four options; VDD -> SMPS -> LDO -> VCORE, VDD -> LDO -> VCORE, VDD -> SMPS -> VCORE and external reg straight into VCORE
2021-09-24T21:49:32 < Ecco> Yeah
2021-09-24T21:49:45 < Ecco> I want to go for VDD -> SMPS -> VCORE.
2021-09-24T21:49:54 < zyp> VCAP pins are both LDO output and VCORE input, so with the LDO enabled you need a large cap there for LDO stability
2021-09-24T21:50:07 < Ecco> ok, that makes sense
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2021-09-24T21:50:57 < Ecco> Oh, ok, wait. Is that couple of 4.7uF meant to be Cout?
2021-09-24T21:51:08 < Ecco> So Cout is supposed to be 10uF, but they split that in two halves?
2021-09-24T21:51:28 < zyp> when you go SMPS -> VCORE, you hook VFBSMPS to VCAP, and so the output cap for the SMPS is by the VFBSMPS pins
2021-09-24T21:51:54 < Ecco> (side question: what do FB and LX stand for?)
2021-09-24T21:52:06 < Ecco> (in VFBSMPS and VLXSMPS)
2021-09-24T21:52:27 < zyp> feedback and switching node
2021-09-24T21:52:34 < Ecco> oh, ok!
2021-09-24T21:52:38 < Ecco> I understood most of what you said
2021-09-24T21:52:42 < Ecco> except the very last part
2021-09-24T21:52:47 < zyp> actually, Cout1 isn't by VFBSMPS, it's by L
2021-09-24T21:53:04 < Ecco> "output cap for the SMPS is by the VFBSMPS pins"
2021-09-24T21:53:15 < Ecco> what do you mean "by the VFBSMPS pin"?
2021-09-24T21:53:43 < zyp> strike that, it's by the inductor
2021-09-24T21:53:59 < Ecco> Actually, I don't even get why there's a Cout1 and Cout2
2021-09-24T21:54:11 < zyp> the switching loop is internal transistor between GND and VLXSMPS, then L, then COUT1
2021-09-24T21:54:12 < Ecco> And why the table below only mentions just one Cout
2021-09-24T21:54:23 < zyp> because they're all parallel
2021-09-24T21:54:33 < zyp> in the SMPS only case
2021-09-24T21:54:34 < Ecco> They are indeed
2021-09-24T21:54:50 < Ecco> But then why bother with two caps?
2021-09-24T21:54:57 < Ecco> And how am I suppoed to pick (and route) them?
2021-09-24T21:56:08 < zyp> as with any buck regulator, you want to reduce the switching loop
2021-09-24T21:56:44 < zyp> 1x10u or 2x4.7u are equivalent, more or less, they go as close to L as possible
2021-09-24T21:56:58 < zyp> and L go as close to VLX as possible
2021-09-24T21:57:27 < Ecco> Oooh
2021-09-24T21:57:29 < zyp> and the ground return path to VSSSMPS also need to be as short as possible
2021-09-24T21:57:34 < Ecco> ok then the AN makes sense
2021-09-24T21:57:55 < Ecco> because afterwards they say
2021-09-24T21:57:59 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/Kj8hX1W.png
2021-09-24T21:58:30 < Ecco> Well, except it doesn't really matches the recommended 10uF all the time
2021-09-24T21:59:01 < Ecco> Actually, it mostly never matches the 10uF of the datasheet
2021-09-24T21:59:11 < Ecco> sometimes it's 20uF, sometimes 15uF, sometimes 10
2021-09-24T21:59:15 < Ecco> That's… confusing
2021-09-24T21:59:22 < zyp> doesn't matter
2021-09-24T21:59:22 < Ecco> Does it just not matter at all?
2021-09-24T21:59:28 < zyp> the important part is having enough
2021-09-24T21:59:33 < Ecco> Ok!
2021-09-24T21:59:38 < zyp> more capacitance = less ripple
2021-09-24T21:59:43 < Ecco> Hmm, ok
2021-09-24T21:59:50 < Ecco> I guess I just don't really understand how an SMPS works
2021-09-24T21:59:57 < Ecco> My understanding is that you charge and discharge a cap
2021-09-24T22:00:05 < Ecco> to make it "wobble" around a desired voltage
2021-09-24T22:01:16 < Ecco> (the charge/discharge duty cycle being controlled by a feedback loop)
2021-09-24T22:02:29 < zyp> no, you charge and discharge the inductor, the cap is «just» for stability :)
2021-09-24T22:02:43 < Ecco> Ooh
2021-09-24T22:02:52 < Ecco> (emergency, I'll be right back)
2021-09-24T22:03:39 < zyp> inductors store current in a similar way to how capacitors store voltage
2021-09-24T22:08:43 < zyp> when the load is trying to draw more current than you've got stored in the inductor, it starts drawing from the capacitor as well, dropping the voltage until the regulator switches on
2021-09-24T22:11:10 < zyp> then the inductor gets charged until it's passing more current than the load is drawing, and the surplus will charge the capacitor back up until the regulator switches off again
2021-09-24T22:11:45 < PaulFertser> You know what's strange? The british call Coccinellidae "ladybird" even though it's not a bird and not really related to ladies. You know what's more strange? The russians call it "God's cow".
2021-09-24T22:13:17 < zyp> the more capacitance you have, the less the voltage will vary between each time the regulator switches
2021-09-24T22:13:45 < PaulFertser> That said, learning Coccinelle to do some semantic C code transformations seem to be worth it when you need to refactor something in a big enough codebase.
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2021-09-24T23:02:07 < kakium69> hello69
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2021-09-24T23:03:35 < Steffanx> Yo mr kakium69. Tell us all about your wonderful day.
2021-09-24T23:04:41 < kakium69> I drove a tractor whole day with a tank trailer containing cow poops
2021-09-24T23:06:23 < kakium69> It's rather warm night +5c so then I did 130-140km moped ride
2021-09-24T23:08:11 < PaulFertser> Are you a farmer?
2021-09-24T23:09:00 < kakium69> nah
2021-09-24T23:11:16 < Ecco> zyp: thank you so much for your explanations!
2021-09-24T23:11:23 < kakium69> it's like family thing
2021-09-24T23:11:40 < kakium69> I hang around and do works
2021-09-24T23:11:57 < kakium69> I'm not the farmer
2021-09-24T23:17:11 < PaulFertser> kakium69: that's cool. I once drove a Belarus tractor. It was funny to be lifted up the seat when depressing the clutch as it was quite stiff for my humble weight.
2021-09-24T23:18:55 < mawk> PaulFertser: cock see kneel
2021-09-24T23:20:14 < kakium69> we had tractor with real clutch last time hmm in 2007
2021-09-24T23:21:12 < zyp> kakium69 sounds like the protagonist of my summer car
2021-09-24T23:21:46 < kakium69> all tractors have clutch pedal but it's just software clutch
2021-09-24T23:21:53 < kakium69> never used
2021-09-24T23:23:34 < englishman> when is the first frost kaks?
2021-09-24T23:23:43 < englishman> it has not arrived here yet, very unusual
2021-09-24T23:23:48 < Steffanx> We already had first frost
2021-09-24T23:23:51 < kakium69> like 2 weeks ago
2021-09-24T23:23:56 < englishman> soy won't be harvested for another 1-2 weeks
2021-09-24T23:23:58 < PaulFertser> mawk: I think you will like it if you ever have to refactor C code
2021-09-24T23:24:01 < Steffanx> like -0.1 C
2021-09-24T23:24:51 < Steffanx> did you get your ice kite out already kakium69?
2021-09-24T23:25:02 < kakium69> na
2021-09-24T23:25:58 < Steffanx> isnt a finnisher ready 24/7 for snow and ice?
2021-09-24T23:26:07 < Steffanx> prepared.
2021-09-24T23:27:00 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-24T23:28:16 < mawk> sounds nice PaulFertser 
--- Day changed Sat Sep 25 2021
2021-09-25T00:04:51 < qyx> PaulFertser: haha panbozkova kravicka here too
2021-09-25T00:09:31 < PaulFertser> qyx: bogia korovka
2021-09-25T00:10:55 < qyx> I would probably understand that too
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2021-09-25T00:42:18 < catphish> dumb layout question, i have a usb socket, and a USB device chip, the data pins don't line up, is there an obvious way to resolve this? https://i.imgur.com/vPgAluF.png
2021-09-25T00:43:12 < MrBIOS_> vias
2021-09-25T00:43:37 < MrBIOS_> or zero ohm SMT parts, to bridge the gap
2021-09-25T00:43:48 < MrBIOS_> but that's probably not a great practice
2021-09-25T00:44:01 < catphish> i can rotate the IC 180 degrees and take the lines underneath with 4 vias, or just cross them with 2 vias, but i'm trying to keep them as an equal pair
2021-09-25T00:44:47 < catphish> so i guess the former option is the nicer one
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2021-09-25T01:36:51 < catphish> this is a cool trick https://i.stack.imgur.com/jTBYC.png
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2021-09-25T02:49:05 < zyp> catphish, first of all, switch to a better usb socket
2021-09-25T02:50:22 < zyp> catphish, is that a HS PHY?
2021-09-25T03:01:37 < zyp> the usb2 usb-c sockets have four pads going PNPN, and it's using either the outer two or the inner two depending on plug orientation, so I like doing something like this: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/5VCDW.png
2021-09-25T03:02:09 < zyp> and then you can connect to the outer if your signal comes as PN or the inner if your signal comes as NP, and the length will be equal in either case
2021-09-25T03:04:55 < zyp> top side: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/LMbbo.png
2021-09-25T03:05:36 < zyp> if it's not HS, I wouldn't worry too much about length matching
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2021-09-25T11:53:37 < catphish> zyp: looks like it's only 2.0 FS, dunno what the length matching requirements are on that
2021-09-25T11:54:16 < catphish> the socket is micro-b https://www.cuidevices.com/product/interconnect/connectors/usb-connectors/uj2-mibh2-4-smt
2021-09-25T11:54:32 < catphish> (not my parts, doing a layout for someone else)
2021-09-25T11:57:41 < catphish> i'm happy enough with this: https://imgur.com/a/Uoi8aFG - gives me a point to break out the TVS too
2021-09-25T12:00:41 < catphish> no idea why you wouldn't use usb-c for a new design :(
2021-09-25T12:01:32 < zyp> exactly
2021-09-25T12:01:59 < zyp> FS is 12 Mb/s, length matching hardly matters at all
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2021-09-25T13:36:59 < Steffanx> I recall a wise finnish guy once said using coat hangers for it would work fine 
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2021-09-25T17:46:40 < dodo__> Hello, I'm trying to debug a code that is randomly reseting an STM32 board. I'm using OpenOCD with GDB, I'm not using a watchdog and nor an RTOS. How would you address a problem like this?
2021-09-25T17:48:42 < dodo__> I'm using stm32duino. Can I, somehow, put a breakpoint at the begging of the reset code, to see what was in the registers, to see what was the problem?
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2021-09-25T18:12:35 < bitmask> sleeping on new pillows is amazing
2021-09-25T18:33:43 < jpa-> dodo__: do you have a hardfault handler function?
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2021-09-25T19:21:57 < dodo__> jpa-: no, I didn't have one. I don't know if stm32duino had a default one, but I have inserted a custom hardfault_handler() now. I did a test with a buggy code and the execution went to the handler. Now I'm waiting that the random error in my real code arise.
2021-09-25T19:23:31 < dodo__> I'm also looking in the datasheet for a reset register, to know if the reset was triggered by brown out, software reset, debugger, watchdog...
2021-09-25T19:24:15 < dodo__> But I can't find the right document. I'm using a STM32L152. Its datasheet doesn't seems to show the registers
2021-09-25T19:27:12 < Flecks> why do you think it got reset dodo__?
2021-09-25T19:31:41 < dodo__> Flecks: My code is printing debug messages over serial like fw version, modem initialization, lcd initialization... I see those messages a lot of times a day
2021-09-25T19:32:41 < dodo__> it could also be a current peak due to the modem.
2021-09-25T19:35:28 < Flecks> ohh I see
2021-09-25T19:46:11 < Flecks> what modem do you use dodo__?
2021-09-25T19:46:39 < dodo__> Its a Quectel UG95
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2021-09-25T20:29:43 < jpa-> dodo__: registers are in reference manual
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2021-09-25T20:43:15 < kakium69> hello cool69
2021-09-25T20:44:47 < kakium69> could you backlog for me "iron ore"
2021-09-25T20:44:48 < kakium69> ?
2021-09-25T20:50:23 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZChSbpBbrt4 flapping pcb guy is innovatin
2021-09-25T20:50:40 < kakium69> non-flappin pcb
2021-09-25T21:03:02 < kakium69> who killed chats?
2021-09-25T21:07:03 < kakium69> import laurenceb
2021-09-25T21:08:16 < PaulFertser> That guy surely has money to burn
2021-09-25T21:08:50 < kakium69> yees
2021-09-25T21:08:52 < kakium69> but no
2021-09-25T21:08:59 < kakium69> he is working with pcbway
2021-09-25T21:09:04 < kakium69> in this case
2021-09-25T21:09:09 < PaulFertser> kakium69: iron ore not found in the logs
2021-09-25T21:09:36 < kakium69> "iron" last 2 months nick kakium69
2021-09-25T21:10:39 < kakium69> I was pondering of changes in iron ore price but not in other metals
2021-09-25T21:12:38 < PaulFertser> 01:08 < kakium69> oh wow gold doubled from 2018 to 2020
2021-09-25T21:12:44 < kakium69> yes
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2021-09-25T21:13:25 < PaulFertser> kakium69: https://termbin.com/512j
2021-09-25T21:14:06 < kakium69> thanks
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2021-09-25T21:15:55 < kakium69> only 2 weeks ago
2021-09-25T21:19:48 < kakium69> well now we know what happend to iron ore price
2021-09-25T21:23:09 < PaulFertser> So what happened?
2021-09-25T21:27:21 < kakium69> chinese real estate is coughin
2021-09-25T21:45:41 < kakium69> UK is funny
2021-09-25T21:47:12 < kakium69> shortage on everything because foreign lorry drivers left
2021-09-25T21:53:02 < PaulFertser> kakium69: got a proof link for the latest statement?
2021-09-25T21:53:25 < kakium69> no
2021-09-25T21:53:37 < kakium69> only shortage of petrol
2021-09-25T21:54:46 < kakium69> news articles imply that there have been all sorts of shortages
2021-09-25T22:05:16 < kakium69> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/25/panic-buying-rather-than-shortages-causing-queues-at-uk-petrol-stations-aa-head-says
2021-09-25T22:05:41 < kakium69> or maybe just same thing than with toilet paper
2021-09-25T22:37:11 < Steffanx> Better start hoarding petrol kakium69 
2021-09-25T22:37:30 < Steffanx> The craziness might spread to finland 
2021-09-25T22:42:44 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@216.116.10.5] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-25T22:53:26 < karlp> PaulFertser: ladybirds are called "maria beetles" in icelandic.
2021-09-25T22:53:50 < PaulFertser> karlp: interesting, and saner.
2021-09-25T22:54:50 < mawk> we call them coccinelles
2021-09-25T22:54:54 < mawk> but PaulFertser already knows
2021-09-25T22:55:00 < karlp> englishman: first snow on the mountain on the bay was thursday.
2021-09-25T22:56:53 < karlp> catphisf's usb socket looks gross
2021-09-25T22:58:44 < karlp> they're also called lady beetles and lady bugs in australian at least.
2021-09-25T23:00:03 < zyp> we call them «maria chickens»
2021-09-25T23:00:17 < zyp> or I guess «maria hens» are more precise
2021-09-25T23:00:38 < mawk> that makes no sense zyp 
2021-09-25T23:00:44 < PaulFertser> So much wierdness with those bugs
2021-09-25T23:00:45 < mawk> they are not chickens
2021-09-25T23:01:26 < mawk> shield bugs (the ones that stink when you crush them) we call them thumbtacks
2021-09-25T23:01:28 < mawk> punaises
2021-09-25T23:01:35 < mawk> because of how annoying it is when you crush it probably
2021-09-25T23:01:54 < zyp> according to norwegian wikipedia, they're also called «maria-fly-fly», but I haven't heard anybody say that
2021-09-25T23:02:10 < karlp> well, TIL that the maria is for mary, "our lady" so it's the same as in english
2021-09-25T23:02:28 < karlp> marjaflugflug?!
2021-09-25T23:02:46 < englishman> really enjoying these etymology chats
2021-09-25T23:03:20 < zyp> no, like I wrote it, the verb fly is spelled the same in norwegian as in english
2021-09-25T23:03:41 < zyp> marjaflugflug sounds like a swedish equivalent
2021-09-25T23:03:45 < mawk> maria vlieg vlieg
2021-09-25T23:04:01 < karlp> "I'm not possessed! I was just speaking danish!"
2021-09-25T23:15:42 < karlp> you used to be able to buy live ladybirds cheaply online, but they seem to be kinda pricey and harder to find now.
2021-09-25T23:16:22 < kakium69> leppäkerttu
2021-09-25T23:16:33 < mawk> what for kakium69 
2021-09-25T23:16:34 < mawk> karlp: *
2021-09-25T23:16:58 < kakium69> ladybirds eat mites and shit
2021-09-25T23:17:04 < karlp> why would you buy them? poest control
2021-09-25T23:17:11 < karlp> they'll eat aphids and a few other pests
2021-09-25T23:17:28 < mawk> ah
2021-09-25T23:17:48 < kakium69> it's a predator
2021-09-25T23:19:34 < mawk> I don't like when they fly
2021-09-25T23:19:38 < mawk> they are very ugly with their wings out
2021-09-25T23:20:31 < karlp> as in, they look as clumsy and weird as all shelled beetles like that?
2021-09-25T23:21:46 < mawk> I mean like the shell is opening like the side doors of a fancy sports car, and the wings come out
2021-09-25T23:21:50 < mawk> it looks weird
2021-09-25T23:22:02 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
2021-09-25T23:22:54 < mawk> https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/ladybug-wings-open-600w-77310646.jpg
2021-09-25T23:23:11 < kakium69> very nice
2021-09-25T23:29:49 < Steffanx> now the dutchlander name
2021-09-25T23:30:06 < Steffanx> @ mawk
2021-09-25T23:30:43 < mawk> probably something horrible Steffanx 
2021-09-25T23:31:00 < Steffanx> lieveheersbeestje
2021-09-25T23:31:07 < Steffanx> sweet lord bug or something
2021-09-25T23:31:10 < mawk> lieveheer beestje
2021-09-25T23:31:16 < mawk> google says lieveheer is daem
2021-09-25T23:31:17 < mawk> dame
2021-09-25T23:31:24 < mawk> so like ladybug
2021-09-25T23:34:40 < kakium69> leppäkerttu - alder gertie
2021-09-25T23:36:55 < kakium69> Kerttu was the first christian woman name in finland
2021-09-25T23:37:08 < kakium69> around 1200
2021-09-25T23:37:57 < kakium69> from german name Gertrud
2021-09-25T23:49:52 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch] has joined ##stm32
--- Day changed Sun Sep 26 2021
2021-09-26T00:06:49 < mawk> alder = elder kakium69 ?
2021-09-26T00:07:03 < kakium69> alder
2021-09-26T00:07:06 < kakium69> the tree
2021-09-26T00:07:40 < mawk> ah
2021-09-26T00:07:46 < mawk> aulne
2021-09-26T00:09:35 < Steffanx> unlikely its "dame" mawk. since "heer" is like "lord".
2021-09-26T00:09:59 < mawk> that's what google translate says Steffanx 
2021-09-26T00:10:05 < Steffanx> Yes, thats true
2021-09-26T00:10:06 < mawk> and it makes sense since it's exactly "lady" in english
2021-09-26T00:10:12 < mawk> so I trust things that make sense
2021-09-26T00:10:38 < mawk> aaah
2021-09-26T00:10:43 < mawk> no I know
2021-09-26T00:10:44 < mawk> you're right
2021-09-26T00:10:46 < Steffanx> wikipedia says its male. like bête à bon Dieu
2021-09-26T00:10:49 < mawk> it's "our lord"
2021-09-26T00:10:49 < mawk> yes
2021-09-26T00:10:52 < mawk> from the french bête à bon dieu
2021-09-26T00:10:57 < mawk> "little beast from our lord"
2021-09-26T00:11:12 < mawk> lieveheerbeestje
2021-09-26T00:11:14 < mawk> it's the literal translatiob
2021-09-26T00:11:15 < mawk> n
2021-09-26T00:11:39 < mawk> google translate got confused by ladybird, and inferred that lieveheer = lady
2021-09-26T00:11:44 < mawk> I wonder how their algorithm works
2021-09-26T00:11:44 < Steffanx> except that "lieve" doesnt mean "little"
2021-09-26T00:11:55 < mawk> the tje means that Steffanx I mean
2021-09-26T00:12:07 < mawk> -tje = little
2021-09-26T00:12:08 < mawk> right?
2021-09-26T00:12:10 < Steffanx> yeah
2021-09-26T00:12:14 < Steffanx> that part is right.
2021-09-26T00:12:31 < Steffanx> but its "sweet lord"
2021-09-26T00:12:42 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-26T00:12:48 < mawk> sweet lord, our lord, same thing
2021-09-26T00:12:59 < mawk> "bon dieu" is not so translatable
2021-09-26T00:13:06 < mawk> it means "our lord" but in a colloquial way
2021-09-26T00:13:21 < mawk> maybe like sweet lord, but "bon dieu" is a bit like making fun of god 
2021-09-26T00:13:26 < mawk> frenchies didn't fear roasting in hell
2021-09-26T00:13:59 < mawk> "good lord" literally
2021-09-26T00:14:52 < Steffanx> The bastard that brought us the religion in the first place?
2021-09-26T00:14:55 < Steffanx> *bastads
2021-09-26T00:14:56 < mawk> lol
2021-09-26T00:14:57 < Steffanx> bastards. damnit
2021-09-26T00:15:39 < Steffanx> At least the Frankish Empire had a part in it
2021-09-26T00:16:08 < mawk> the frankish empire died the baptism of Clovis in the year 500
2021-09-26T00:16:12 < mawk> after that it's the french empire
2021-09-26T00:16:31 < mawk> it's our first christian emporor
2021-09-26T00:16:38 < mawk> or king or whatever
2021-09-26T00:17:44 < Steffanx> i dont know Clovis, but ido remember the Charlemagne stories
2021-09-26T00:18:56 < mawk> yeah clovis is like the greatfather or something
2021-09-26T00:19:01 < mawk> I forgot all that
2021-09-26T00:19:20 < mawk> carlus magnus
2021-09-26T00:19:27 < mawk> then at some points all kings started being called louis
2021-09-26T00:19:41 < mawk> we still have their descendants alive in france today, the Count of Paris is Louis 20 or something
2021-09-26T00:19:58 < mawk> but he's fighting for the throne of france with another guy that pretends to be the descendant of the kings
2021-09-26T00:20:00 < Steffanx> And then we got this guy that "invented" last names
2021-09-26T00:20:04 < mawk> but that second guy doesn't even speak french
2021-09-26T00:20:34 < mawk> well our king doesn't have a last-name right? it's just king wilhelm-something
2021-09-26T00:20:53 < Steffanx> he does
2021-09-26T00:21:12 < Steffanx> or maybe not :P
2021-09-26T00:21:34 < mawk> or maybe "king wilhelm-something of netherlands"
2021-09-26T00:23:06 < Steffanx> apparently its van Amsberg van Oranje-Nassau
2021-09-26T00:23:17 < mawk> ah yeah I knew about the orange-nassau part
2021-09-26T00:23:22 < mawk> orange is from the city of Orange in france
2021-09-26T00:23:29 < mawk> but dumb dutch people think it refers to the color or something
2021-09-26T00:23:34 < mawk> hence the national color being orange
2021-09-26T00:24:10 -!- kraiskil [~kraiskil@cable-static-218-226.rsnweb.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-26T00:24:27 < Steffanx> its a nice national colour
2021-09-26T00:24:46 < mawk> it comes from the occitan dialect which means "high" or "elevated", and not from the color
2021-09-26T00:24:48 < mawk> yeah
2021-09-26T00:25:05 < mawk> also quite ironic for netherlands where the highest mountain is like 20m
2021-09-26T00:26:29 < Steffanx> 322.4 meters above NAP
2021-09-26T00:27:02 < mawk> what's nap
2021-09-26T00:27:26 < Steffanx> dutchlands 0 point
2021-09-26T00:28:08 < mawk> o
2021-09-26T00:30:09 < Steffanx> oui
2021-09-26T00:30:37 < mawk> oh oui oh oui oh oui oui oui
2021-09-26T00:30:49 < mawk> mon ami néerlandais
2021-09-26T00:31:10 < mawk> sujet de sa majesté guillaume-alexandre de amsberg d'orange
2021-09-26T00:31:19 < mawk> -nassau
2021-09-26T00:32:36 < mouseghost> frogeater
2021-09-26T00:32:56 < mawk> :(
2021-09-26T00:33:16 < mawk> vous n'étiez pas au courant de ma francité mouseghost ?
2021-09-26T00:33:27 < mawk> vivez-vous dans une grotte ?
2021-09-26T00:33:50 < oz4ga> grottoghost :P
2021-09-26T00:34:10 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-26T00:34:30 < kakium69> did you get petrol catphish?
2021-09-26T00:34:36 < mawk> who says petrol
2021-09-26T00:34:40 < Steffanx> he's still in line
2021-09-26T00:34:40 < mawk> you say gasoline
2021-09-26T00:34:43 < kakium69> brits
2021-09-26T00:34:51 < kakium69> I talk his language
2021-09-26T00:35:34 < catphish> kakium69: i don't need petrol, apparently unlike 99% of brits, i haven't felt the need to buy some anyway
2021-09-26T00:35:58 -!- Mangy_Dog [Mange@user/mangy-dog/x-7397214] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-26T00:36:27 < Steffanx> dont you want to hoard just for the fun?
2021-09-26T00:36:33 < Steffanx> mabye Mangy_Dog?
2021-09-26T00:36:35 < catphish> in a few days when i do need some, hopefully the petrol stations will be well stocked and devoid of idiots :)
2021-09-26T00:36:42 < mouseghost> mawk, i think i was aware of your frenchens
2021-09-26T00:36:54 < catphish> i did joke to my wife this evening that we should pick up some toilet paper too
2021-09-26T00:37:04 < Steffanx> Yeah, hes toooo french mouseghost
2021-09-26T00:37:25 < mouseghost> catphish, whats happening in britain?
2021-09-26T00:37:26 < mawk> :(
2021-09-26T00:37:29 < mawk> I'm only half french
2021-09-26T00:37:30 < Steffanx> He lives in the netherlands.. but rotated the dutch flag 90 degrees
2021-09-26T00:37:33 < mawk> lol
2021-09-26T00:37:34 < mouseghost> and, you have a wife? woa
2021-09-26T00:37:47 < mawk> me?
2021-09-26T00:37:50 < mawk> no
2021-09-26T00:37:53 < mouseghost> catphish, 
2021-09-26T00:37:55 < mawk> why would I ever want that
2021-09-26T00:37:56 < mawk> tah
2021-09-26T00:38:01 < mawk> ah*
2021-09-26T00:38:02 < Steffanx> i dont think mawk would ever marry
2021-09-26T00:38:06 < Steffanx> lol
2021-09-26T00:38:09 < Steffanx> slow typer
2021-09-26T00:38:15 < Mangy_Dog> you want to hoard me? :o
2021-09-26T00:38:21 < mouseghost> ah, i thought mawk was more of a, shots for the same-team type of guy
2021-09-26T00:38:23 < Steffanx> no, petrol, Mangy_Dog
2021-09-26T00:38:26 < catphish> mouseghost: basically nothing, there was news of HGV driver shortages causing potential fuel shortages, so everyone went out to buy fuel, now fuel stations have no fuel
2021-09-26T00:38:34 < mawk> yes Mangy_Dog I want to hoard you
2021-09-26T00:38:35 < mouseghost> Mangy_Dog, whats up with those lewd thoughts?
2021-09-26T00:38:39 < Mangy_Dog> yeah im a little worried about petrol
2021-09-26T00:38:41 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-26T00:38:54 < mawk> you want to come to our orgy mouseghost ?
2021-09-26T00:38:57 < Mangy_Dog> i have a 500 mile round trip next friday coming back following monday
2021-09-26T00:39:02 < mawk> ah no you're underage nevermind
2021-09-26T00:39:03 < catphish> i'm building an electric car soon, i'll be fine :)
2021-09-26T00:39:12 < Mangy_Dog> and im a little worried there wont be any petrol stations stocked :;
2021-09-26T00:39:14 < Mangy_Dog> :/
2021-09-26T00:40:03 < mouseghost> mawk, sorry, i dont really like orgies
2021-09-26T00:40:06 < catphish> my petrol station in town got restocked this evening ans re-opened as i was driving past it, i still didn't feel compelled to refill my car
2021-09-26T00:40:09 < Mangy_Dog> all thanks to our elustrious god king leader boris
2021-09-26T00:40:12 < mouseghost> i was already at such setting and it wasnt nice
2021-09-26T00:40:53 < catphish> get electric vehicles, then you only need to worry about blackouts :)
2021-09-26T00:40:57 < mouseghost> perhaps due to the fact that one guy was kind of crazy childish acting and was a feet fetishist, but.. still the point stands...
2021-09-26T00:41:01 < Steffanx> You guys wanted this brexit, Mangy_Dog
2021-09-26T00:41:08 < Mangy_Dog> i didnt want brexit at all
2021-09-26T00:41:13 < kakium69> you have grown out of such silliness mouseghost
2021-09-26T00:41:14 < Mangy_Dog> im pro european
2021-09-26T00:41:22 < catphish> i most definitely didn't want brexit
2021-09-26T00:41:27 < catphish> i'm european
2021-09-26T00:41:30 < Mangy_Dog> ^^
2021-09-26T00:41:37 < Steffanx> but you forgot to vote?
2021-09-26T00:41:39 < mouseghost> kakium69, which one?
2021-09-26T00:41:41 < Mangy_Dog> no i voted
2021-09-26T00:41:47 < kakium69> mouseghost: orgies
2021-09-26T00:41:48 < Mangy_Dog> remain
2021-09-26T00:41:57 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-26T00:41:59 < catphish> i voted too, but idiot old people outovted me
2021-09-26T00:42:07 < Mangy_Dog> but what do you know... the racist nationalist cunts won
2021-09-26T00:42:34 < catphish> unfortunately nationalism is easier to sell than real economics
2021-09-26T00:42:45 < Mangy_Dog> indeed
2021-09-26T00:42:48 < Mangy_Dog> worked for hitlet
2021-09-26T00:42:50 < Steffanx> Didnt only like 40% of you guys vote?
2021-09-26T00:42:51 < Mangy_Dog> hitler
2021-09-26T00:42:53 < Mangy_Dog> THERE I SAID IT
2021-09-26T00:42:54 < Steffanx> or evne less?
2021-09-26T00:42:58 < Mangy_Dog> yeah
2021-09-26T00:43:01 < mawk> but you're 15 mouseghost what were you doing there
2021-09-26T00:43:04 < Mangy_Dog> was a really stupid lobsided vote
2021-09-26T00:43:06 < kakium69> democrazy in any western country effectivelly means that boomers decide
2021-09-26T00:43:10 < mouseghost> mawk, hey im almost 18
2021-09-26T00:43:23 < catphish> i thought turnout was pretty high, in the brexit referendum, but still not high enough
2021-09-26T00:43:36 < Mangy_Dog> na
2021-09-26T00:43:41 < Mangy_Dog> turnout was high for the leavers
2021-09-26T00:43:46 < Mangy_Dog> not so high for the remainers
2021-09-26T00:43:48 < catphish> weird
2021-09-26T00:43:58 < Mangy_Dog> most remainers thought... it wont happen
2021-09-26T00:44:00 < Mangy_Dog> so didnt bother
2021-09-26T00:44:05 < catphish> i think a lot of remainers were complacent
2021-09-26T00:44:09 < Mangy_Dog> typical UK voting apahty
2021-09-26T00:44:11 < Mangy_Dog> apathy
2021-09-26T00:44:13 < Steffanx> telegram links because relevant: https://t.me/stm32pro/54224 & https://t.me/stm32pro/54222
2021-09-26T00:44:13 < mouseghost> makes me think that all those voting things are faked
2021-09-26T00:44:15 < catphish> because it was assumed leave would never win
2021-09-26T00:44:20 < Mangy_Dog> catphish indeed
2021-09-26T00:44:24 < mouseghost> here its also a situation where nobody votes for them, yet they win..
2021-09-26T00:45:00 < Mangy_Dog> im in all honesty really scared where this country is going
2021-09-26T00:45:04 < catphish> i'm just glad our new single party system is at least somewhat centrist
2021-09-26T00:45:20 < Mangy_Dog> esp as we in effect dont have a oposision party
2021-09-26T00:45:26 < Mangy_Dog> oposition
2021-09-26T00:45:28 < Mangy_Dog> gah
2021-09-26T00:46:04 < catphish> uk is now a single party system, there's more interest in conservative leadership contest than general election
2021-09-26T00:46:16 < Steffanx> Your parlement is a joke anyway. All those boomers in a too small room
2021-09-26T00:46:31 < catphish> which sucks colossal balls, but at least they're at least somewhat sane
2021-09-26T00:46:31 < Steffanx> parliament
2021-09-26T00:46:49 < mouseghost> single party system??
2021-09-26T00:46:58 < Steffanx> Worked for hitler, right?
2021-09-26T00:47:42 < catphish> mouseghost: a single party system is when one political party consistently wins the general vote, and politics becomes about the policies and leadership of that party
2021-09-26T00:47:54 < mouseghost> zahh
2021-09-26T00:47:55 < catphish> mouseghost: like CCP in china
2021-09-26T00:48:19 < mouseghost> isnt ccp the company from eve online
2021-09-26T00:48:48 < catphish> this is hyperbole to some extent, uk conservative party has less than 50% of vote, but no other party has a chance of beating them
2021-09-26T00:48:58 < catphish> mouseghost: yes, i think so
2021-09-26T00:49:17 < Mangy_Dog> the trouble is labour has a tory for its leader
2021-09-26T00:49:57 < mawk> why are you politicing Mangy_Dog 
2021-09-26T00:50:00 < catphish> there are various problems, including idealists like me who vote for the green party and essentially waste their vote in a FPTP system
2021-09-26T00:50:01 < mawk> ircers do not do politics
2021-09-26T00:50:14 < mawk> except me and cracki and laurenceb, everyone hates talking about it
2021-09-26T00:50:20 < Mangy_Dog> because i live in a utterly recessive country
2021-09-26T00:50:59 < catphish> on the plus side, the UK conservative party is saner than either choice in the USA ;)
2021-09-26T00:51:12 < Mangy_Dog> honestly
2021-09-26T00:51:13 < Mangy_Dog> right now
2021-09-26T00:51:17 < Mangy_Dog> im not so sure
2021-09-26T00:51:18 < zyp> I'm rather happy with the outcome of the recent norwegian election
2021-09-26T00:51:24 < Mangy_Dog> i mean sure even us democrats arent the best
2021-09-26T00:51:27 < Mangy_Dog> but
2021-09-26T00:51:29 < Mangy_Dog> shit
2021-09-26T00:51:38 < catphish> zyp: don't you also have an electric car? living the dream?
2021-09-26T00:51:54 < Mangy_Dog> we have a little miss hitler for a home sec
2021-09-26T00:52:04 < Mangy_Dog> and  clueless fucking idiot as leader
2021-09-26T00:52:06 < zyp> catphish, recently ordered another
2021-09-26T00:52:16 < Mangy_Dog> and a front bench of corrupt cunts
2021-09-26T00:52:55 < catphish> zyp: i have a plan. it involves a VX220 and a nissan leaf ;)
2021-09-26T00:53:53 < zyp> if you want, we'll have a peugeot ion for sale when we get the new one, don't need three cars :)
2021-09-26T00:54:26 < mawk> zyp = rich
2021-09-26T00:54:28 < catphish> unless you're selling it for scrap, i doubt i'll give you worthwhile monies for it
2021-09-26T00:55:04 < mawk> how much does a monie weigh?
2021-09-26T00:55:15 < zyp> nah, it's old, but not scrap yet
2021-09-26T00:55:24 < catphish> my plan is to buy a scrap nissan leaf, and a VX220, and transplant the 110kW drivetrain from the former into the latter
2021-09-26T00:55:54 < zyp> nissan leaf is 110kW?
2021-09-26T00:56:11 < zyp> my egolf is only 85
2021-09-26T00:56:21 < catphish> zyp: upgraded from 80kW to 110kW in 2018 i think
2021-09-26T00:56:29 < zyp> ah, that makes sense
2021-09-26T00:56:51 < catphish> i can get a 110kW motor and inverter on ebay for about £1,500
2021-09-26T00:57:03 < catphish> the expensive part will be the battery pack
2021-09-26T00:57:15 < mouseghost> install a generator
2021-09-26T00:57:20 < mouseghost> and power it with diesel
2021-09-26T00:57:24 < catphish> no
2021-09-26T00:57:30 < zyp> I think that's about what I expect to get for the peugeot
2021-09-26T00:58:10 < zyp> but that's 47kW or something
2021-09-26T00:58:31 < catphish> zyp: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254708823137 and https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324786608012
2021-09-26T00:58:56 < catphish> i think those parts combined might give me a fun EV
2021-09-26T00:59:27 < zyp> :)
2021-09-26T01:00:20 < catphish> i'm no mechanic, but i found a guy locally who fabricates parts and converts classic cars to EV, so i've asked his advice
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2021-09-26T01:02:24 < zyp> hmm, new car is 160kW
2021-09-26T01:04:19 < catphish> nice, what's that?
2021-09-26T01:04:24 < zyp> ioniq 5
2021-09-26T01:05:21 < catphish> EVs are so boring
2021-09-26T01:05:34 < catphish> we need more roadsters
2021-09-26T01:05:57 < catphish> that ioniq 5 looks expensive but... boring
2021-09-26T01:06:09 < zyp> haha, suits my needs well
2021-09-26T01:06:18 < catphish> though i thought that about the golf until i bought one
2021-09-26T01:06:39 < zyp> a roadster doesn't sound like a family car :)
2021-09-26T01:07:11 < catphish> yeah, i don't want a family car, i want something to get myself to the gym with maximum fun
2021-09-26T01:07:38 < catphish> they shoud sell this on its own https://hyundai-website-assets.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/production/assets.images/site_assets/ioniq5/platform_modular.jpg
2021-09-26T01:10:25 < zyp> I'm pretty happy with my egolf, but I don't really like the interiors of the new VW EVs
2021-09-26T01:10:50 < zyp> was considering the ID.4 as well
2021-09-26T01:11:21 < zyp> but the ioniq 5 both got better specs and were more comfortable to drive
2021-09-26T01:11:36 < zyp> at the same price point
2021-09-26T01:12:35 < catphish> i've heard good things about the id4
2021-09-26T01:12:58 < catphish> but i've never actually driven an EV
2021-09-26T01:13:19 < catphish> my first experience with one will probably be my DIY roadster"
2021-09-26T01:13:22 < catphish> *!
2021-09-26T01:13:29 < zyp> haha
2021-09-26T01:14:13 < zyp> I tried most of the cars that were on the market in 2016
2021-09-26T01:14:25 < zyp> except tesla, because they were anal about test driving
2021-09-26T01:15:40 < catphish> they don't really have dealships do they, you have to just order one
2021-09-26T01:16:02 < catphish> i guess if you want to test drive one you have to go to london or find a friend's
2021-09-26T01:16:04 < zyp> we do here, I think
2021-09-26T01:16:47 < zyp> we've got a big tesla dealership nearby, but I've never been inside
2021-09-26T01:19:18 < catphish> i think my car will cost as much as yours by the time i've finished building it"
2021-09-26T01:19:20 < catphish> *!
2021-09-26T01:20:29 < zyp> the TMY looks kinda interesting, but it'd end up at like 100k NOK more than the other options I were considering
2021-09-26T01:21:14 < zyp> and I don't think it's that much better to justify paying more for it
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2021-09-26T01:29:09 < englishman> the model Y is indeed quite expensive
2021-09-26T01:29:36 < mawk> S 3 X Y
2021-09-26T01:32:56 < catphish> my ex business partner bought a model 3, it's awesome apart from the dash styling
2021-09-26T01:33:26 < zyp> one of my friends recently got one too, it's so far the only tesla I've driven
2021-09-26T01:34:57 < catphish> i've not driven one, but it left my golf gti in its dust
2021-09-26T01:35:26 < catphish> so i looked it up and it has the same 0-60 as my 718 cayman s (4.2s) which is insane for a family car
2021-09-26T01:36:12 < zyp> not a fan of having to look at the center screen for the speedometer, and the cruise control/lane assist whatever was dumb, but otherwise it had some good stuff
2021-09-26T01:36:31 < zyp> not a family car though
2021-09-26T01:36:46 < catphish> zyp: yeah, the interior is really shit (the wooden dash, touchscreen)
2021-09-26T01:37:20 < catphish> how is it not a family car? isn't it a regular 5 sear hatchback?
2021-09-26T01:37:37 < zyp> the steering wheel controls seemed like a good idea if I understood it correct
2021-09-26T01:37:54 < catphish> i'ven not looked at it that closely
2021-09-26T01:38:09 < zyp> I got the impression they are fairly generic and can be configured to some degree what they do
2021-09-26T01:38:34 < zyp> kinda non-intuitive at first look though, since they got no functions labelled
2021-09-26T01:39:14 < catphish> there's only 2 people in my family, in general boot space matters to me more than seating
2021-09-26T01:39:56 < catphish> the golf is perfect for me, but sometimes i yearn for something more fun on the side
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2021-09-26T05:24:49 < karlp> "ircers don't do politics" wat?!
2021-09-26T05:25:06  * karlp has been watching live election results for hours....
2021-09-26T05:29:33 < karlp> catphish: hang on, what?a tesla s3 is a family car?
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2021-09-26T11:02:04 < catphish> karlp: well yeah, it's got back seats and back doors, it's just a regular practical car
2021-09-26T11:04:21 < catphish> it's actually a four-door sedan, not a hatchback, so probably not as much boot space
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2021-09-26T14:50:46 < Laurenceb> suppp
2021-09-26T14:50:53 < Laurenceb> ban evasion ftw
2021-09-26T14:54:04 < Steffanx> i think people forgpt you were banned
2021-09-26T14:55:56 < sauce> will see how long it takes to be reminded
2021-09-26T14:56:10 < Mangy_Dog> who was banned and why?
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2021-09-26T15:04:40 -!- Guest39 is now known as Laurenceb_
2021-09-26T15:04:46 < Laurenceb_> freaking javashit
2021-09-26T15:05:04 < Laurenceb_> libera webchat wont work with hidemyass or tor2web
2021-09-26T15:06:25 -!- Laurenceb [~Guest3@103.47.147.147.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-26T15:07:06 < Laurenceb_> but there is a way to ban evade...
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2021-09-26T15:18:45 < catphish> this usb socket continues to annoy me - https://i.imgur.com/0FF23Rw.png that's some seriously tight clearance between the power surface mount pads and the shielding pins
2021-09-26T15:19:50 < catphish> 0.125mm
2021-09-26T15:31:47 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
2021-09-26T15:37:20 < catphish> ah it's just a shit footprint design :)
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2021-09-26T15:45:15 < Guest393> >protonmail re-enabled tor registration
2021-09-26T15:45:18 < Guest393> trollin
2021-09-26T15:45:23 -!- Guest393 is now known as Laurenceb
2021-09-26T15:45:44 < Laurenceb> >protonmail tor registration just requires sms
2021-09-26T15:49:45 < Laurenceb> lol this will surely keep out teh haxors
2021-09-26T15:51:15 < Laurenceb> https://receivefreesms.co.uk/receive-sms/447520635797-united-kingdom
2021-09-26T15:51:47 < catphish> handy
2021-09-26T15:52:05 < Laurenceb> yeah everyone at wurk uses it for microshart teams
2021-09-26T15:52:36 < Laurenceb> chinese haxors keep trying to infiltrate the systems and everyone else has to re register about twice a day
2021-09-26T15:52:48 < Laurenceb> I'm not giving them my number
2021-09-26T15:53:31 < Laurenceb> kek at all the facebook trolls using it
2021-09-26T15:54:25 < Laurenceb> sms over gsm/gprs is sent plaintext anyway, so its not even secure in its intended use
2021-09-26T15:54:41 < catphish> Laurenceb: are you sure about that?
2021-09-26T15:54:57 < catphish> that seems insane / implausible :|
2021-09-26T15:55:04 < catphish> but i kinda believe you
2021-09-26T15:57:27 < Laurenceb> catphish: it was never intended to be secure, sms was an added feature, its use case was unclear at the time of design
2021-09-26T15:57:43 < Laurenceb> aiui it was thought that sms broadcast would be more commonly used
2021-09-26T16:01:49 < Laurenceb> anyone know how to profile windozer xp?
2021-09-26T16:02:09 < Laurenceb> I've got an old laptop that keeps locking up for tens of seconds at a time
2021-09-26T16:04:32 < Steffanx> Reinstall OD
2021-09-26T16:04:34 < Steffanx> S
2021-09-26T16:04:52 < Steffanx> Fuck wasting time on it otherwise
2021-09-26T16:10:52 < catphish> Laurenceb: that makes sense
2021-09-26T16:13:28 < Laurenceb> I cant work this shit out
2021-09-26T16:13:47 < Laurenceb> cpu fan doesnt rev up, but task manager shows 100% cpu
2021-09-26T16:15:07 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-26T16:20:09 < Laurenceb> like something is timing out
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2021-09-26T17:38:07 < bitmask> I'm only 25 pages in but im liking sutter's c++ coding standards
2021-09-26T17:38:44 < jpa-> 25 pages to read?! why not just go and code instead
2021-09-26T17:39:56 < bitmask> heh
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2021-09-26T17:49:36 < bitmask> still got 4 more books to go after this one
2021-09-26T18:02:35 < Steffanx> Hello ##stm32  . How's the day?
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2021-09-26T19:06:01 < kakium69> jpa-: it's a different experience
2021-09-26T19:09:03 < kakium69> it's like reading your industry monthly magazine
2021-09-26T19:09:24 < kakium69> cool stuff
2021-09-26T19:09:47 < kakium69> but not really relevant
2021-09-26T19:16:46 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5an4e1_x3c cat video of the day
2021-09-26T19:19:16 < Steffanx> Enjoy this totally irrelevant video kakium69: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uynI0gLxA7w
2021-09-26T19:19:27 < Steffanx> *unrelated
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2021-09-26T19:23:30 < kakium69> interesting random
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2021-09-26T19:29:47 < Steffanx> Never seen it before kakium69  ?
2021-09-26T19:29:57 < kakium69> never
2021-09-26T19:30:49 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
2021-09-26T19:35:04 < Steffanx> Did it at least give you a little smile mr kakium69 
2021-09-26T19:35:14 < kakium69> I was amused
2021-09-26T19:35:22 < Steffanx> Or are you one of this ice cold finnishers 
2021-09-26T19:37:14 < emeb> g071 audio processing working w/ internal ADC and internal DAC or I2S.
2021-09-26T19:37:40 < kakium69> I smiled a little to "Scheiße"
2021-09-26T19:38:07 < emeb> lederhosen and giant beer.
2021-09-26T19:38:14 -!- specing [~specing@user/specing] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-26T19:41:18 < kakium69> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurplDfPi3U fusion energy basic numbers
2021-09-26T19:42:44 < kakium69> sanity check for all the startup hype
2021-09-26T19:43:05 < kakium69> how do you feel about monday that is tommorow?
2021-09-26T19:50:07 < emeb> time is a meaningless construct
2021-09-26T19:52:29 < kakium69> is that your way to deal with monday anxiety?
2021-09-26T19:52:52 < srk> just skip mondays
2021-09-26T19:53:15 < kakium69> mine is to work every day so monday is just another day
2021-09-26T19:54:35 < srk> similiar but I usually reserver mondays for house chores
2021-09-26T19:55:23 < srk> everyone is hyped for the upcoming week so no deep work can be done anyway :-D
2021-09-26T19:56:06 < kakium69> pump the coffee
2021-09-26T19:56:20 < kakium69> when I had office jubb I didn't have coffee at home
2021-09-26T19:56:35 < kakium69> so monday was very pump
2021-09-26T19:59:35 < Steffanx> Hmpf
2021-09-26T19:59:58 < Steffanx> I stopped drinking coffee 
2021-09-26T20:00:04 < oz4ga> You are not German. You're an idiot *rofl*
2021-09-26T20:00:46 < kakium69> best thing about jubbs is coffee
2021-09-26T20:01:01 < kakium69> like 1 litre of coffee
2021-09-26T20:01:02 < Steffanx> I'm fine with water or just some tea
2021-09-26T20:01:22 < Steffanx> Coffee gives those dips and weekend headache 
2021-09-26T20:02:00 < kakium69> just die for weekend and revive yourself with company coffee on monday
2021-09-26T20:02:23 < Steffanx> Weekends are the best days of the week..
2021-09-26T20:05:34 < kakium69> so I have heard
2021-09-26T20:06:10 < kakium69> night rider bbl>
2021-09-26T20:06:25 < PaulFertser> Take care kakium69 
2021-09-26T20:06:35 < kakium69> ride fast kakium69
2021-09-26T20:06:54 < PaulFertser> No, ride slow and enjoy the ride rather than risk needlessly.
2021-09-26T20:07:28 < kakium69> enjoy the edge kakium69
2021-09-26T20:07:36 < kakium69> bbl>
2021-09-26T20:08:57 < Steffanx> Farewell kakium69 
2021-09-26T20:09:09 < Steffanx> Better die doing what you like 😬😬
2021-09-26T20:09:22 < Steffanx> while doing*
2021-09-26T20:10:17 < Steffanx> But dont hit someone else.
2021-09-26T20:14:39 < srk> `Getting Started with PlatformIO - Better than the Arduino IDE`
2021-09-26T20:14:43 < srk> aww
2021-09-26T20:31:47 < catphish> i love how autorouters are simultaneously so much cleverer and so much more retarded than me
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2021-09-26T21:14:24 < kakium69> no but steff
2021-09-26T21:14:59 < kakium69> no buts
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2021-09-26T21:16:59 < mouseghost> no butts
2021-09-26T21:20:41 < kakium69> yes butts butt no buts
2021-09-26T21:21:08 < Steffanx> the "but" part was my most important message to you kakium69
2021-09-26T21:21:29 < kakium69> can I kill a moose with my moped if I want?
2021-09-26T21:22:08 < Steffanx> Can sure, should no
2021-09-26T21:22:17 < qyx> be careful not to observe the effect of relativity
2021-09-26T21:30:35 < mawk> don't get impaled on the moose kakium69 
2021-09-26T21:30:42 < mawk> his friends won't call 911 to save you
2021-09-26T21:31:26 < mawk> coffee doesn't give me headache Steffanx 
2021-09-26T21:31:40 < mawk> because I make sure to always drink at least 1.5L of energy drink per day
2021-09-26T21:31:41 < Steffanx> its lack of coffee
2021-09-26T21:31:44 < mawk> no time for headache
2021-09-26T21:31:50 < mawk> even on weekend
2021-09-26T21:31:53 < mawk> yeah I know
2021-09-26T21:33:33 < mawk> I'm going to france Steffanx 
2021-09-26T21:33:42 < mawk> do you want some cassoulet de castelnaudary?
2021-09-26T21:36:10 < Steffanx> White beans? Nah ty
2021-09-26T21:36:27 < kakium69> white beans in tomato sauce
2021-09-26T21:36:30 < kakium69> yamm
2021-09-26T21:37:46 < mawk> it's not just beans Steffanx 
2021-09-26T21:38:00 < mawk> it's the perfect sauce, the juicy sausage, the good meat
2021-09-26T21:38:07 < mawk> it's the traditional dish of southwest france
2021-09-26T21:38:14 < mawk> from around toulouse
2021-09-26T21:38:38 < mawk> you can buy it in french shops here
2021-09-26T21:38:40 < mawk> canned one
2021-09-26T21:38:43 < mawk> but still it should be good
2021-09-26T21:38:46 < mawk> try it
2021-09-26T21:39:59 < kakium69> yes put sausage into beans it works
2021-09-26T21:41:30 < mawk> yes
2021-09-26T21:41:33 < mawk> but not any sausage
2021-09-26T21:41:40 < mawk> it's a very soft sausage
2021-09-26T21:41:45 < mawk> no chunky bits outside
2021-09-26T21:41:56 < mawk> a bit like knack but much tastier
2021-09-26T21:42:01 < mawk> knack is industrial gunk
2021-09-26T21:42:10 < mawk> chunky bits inside*
2021-09-26T21:42:24 < mawk> it's like a meat foam sausage
2021-09-26T21:42:37 < mawk> the most perfect sausage there is
2021-09-26T21:42:48 < mawk> are you ircing from your moped kakium69 ????
2021-09-26T21:42:51 < mawk> stop that right now
2021-09-26T21:43:29 < kakium69> yes my moped has shell ofcourse
2021-09-26T21:43:31 < Steffanx> What's happening in France mawk?
2021-09-26T21:43:41 < mawk> my grandpa is dying
2021-09-26T21:43:45 < mawk> so I'm going to see him
2021-09-26T21:43:45 < Steffanx> Having a party with your old neighbours?
2021-09-26T21:43:56 < kakium69> wait
2021-09-26T21:43:56 < mawk> lol no
2021-09-26T21:44:08 < kakium69> aren't you french living in frenchland mawk?
2021-09-26T21:44:18 < mawk> no I'm french living in Steffanland
2021-09-26T21:44:25 < mawk> I'm just half french in reality
2021-09-26T21:44:28 < kakium69> tf
2021-09-26T21:44:30 < mawk> I'm also dutch citizen
2021-09-26T21:44:45 < mawk> I'm in steffanland since 2 years
2021-09-26T21:44:46 < kakium69> have you been at steffs?
2021-09-26T21:44:49 < mawk> before I was in france
2021-09-26T21:44:51 < mawk> not yet
2021-09-26T21:44:57 < mawk> he's too far
2021-09-26T21:45:01 < mawk> in the countryside
2021-09-26T21:45:08 < kakium69> maybe
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2021-09-26T22:09:12 < Steffanx> And I dont want to go to the busy city side, kakium69  :P
2021-09-26T22:09:42 < kakium69> ye
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2021-09-27T00:51:52 < jadew> jlc has free assembly now?
2021-09-27T00:52:07 < jadew> so $2 for the PCB with free assembly... ffs
2021-09-27T00:52:29 < jadew> they want to kill the competition thoroughly
2021-09-27T00:52:49 < jadew> ah, it says the free assembly is a coupon, so I guess it's a temporary thing
2021-09-27T00:53:25 < jadew> can you merge jlc orders with lcsc?
2021-09-27T00:53:33 < jadew> that would be neat
2021-09-27T01:03:03 < mawk> probably yes
2021-09-27T01:03:33 < mawk> they have a common order basket thing I think
2021-09-27T01:03:57 < jadew> let me check
2021-09-27T01:04:32 < jadew> doesn't looks like it
2021-09-27T01:04:43 < jadew> but it did log me in automatically to lcsc
2021-09-27T01:04:46 < zyp> jlc assembly sources from lcsc
2021-09-27T01:04:51 < jadew> I'm surprised by how good jlc's website got
2021-09-27T01:04:52 < zyp> and only there
2021-09-27T01:05:09 < zyp> yeah, jlc is pretty cool
2021-09-27T01:05:24 < jadew> they're going to be huge
2021-09-27T01:05:27 < zyp> I did the orbtrace testjig boards there
2021-09-27T01:05:42 < zyp> cost me like $15 shipped and arrived in a week or so
2021-09-27T01:05:57 < jadew> shipped via what?
2021-09-27T01:06:00 < zyp> DHL
2021-09-27T01:06:03 < jadew> wow
2021-09-27T01:06:13 < zyp> the $15 was $2 for boards and $13 for shipping
2021-09-27T01:06:23 < Steffanx> DHL rant coming in 3..2.1.. jadew? :P
2021-09-27T01:06:33 < jadew> they're quoting me $92 for shipping, but my order has 5 framed stencils, which are fairly heavy
2021-09-27T01:06:47 < jadew> Steffanx, no, I'd rather have DHL than anything else these days
2021-09-27T01:06:56 < zyp> agreed
2021-09-27T01:07:11 < zyp> DHL is the only thing that's consistently fast
2021-09-27T01:07:41 < jadew> and they don't have additional taxes if you have an EORI number
2021-09-27T01:08:04 < zyp> UPS' fast service is pretty great, but the naming is retarded and it's not very obvious whether you'll get the slow or fast one
2021-09-27T01:08:27 < zyp> digikey and mouser always uses the fast one, but from other places it's more random
2021-09-27T01:09:09 < jadew> there's a slow one?
2021-09-27T01:09:20 < zyp> jlcpcb quality is also surprisingly good: https://bin.jvnv.net/file/yRYjM.JPG
2021-09-27T01:09:27 < zyp> yeah
2021-09-27T01:10:25 < zyp> fast one means stuff leaves the US one day, gets sorted in europe the next day, gets sorted in oslo next morning and arrives here around 14 same day
2021-09-27T01:11:11 < zyp> slow one is slower and once stuff gets to oslo it gets handed off to national mail and takes another day or two to get here
2021-09-27T01:11:45 < zyp> and sometimes they demand prepayment of import taxes instead of invoicing you afterwards
2021-09-27T01:12:51 < jadew> they always ask for prepayment here, but it's usually handled very fast
2021-09-27T01:15:07 < zyp> they rarely do here and I'm not sure exactly when
2021-09-27T01:15:13 < zyp> only happened two-three times
2021-09-27T01:32:06 < jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbj_iu_8Lso
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2021-09-27T01:33:28 < jadew> night
2021-09-27T01:36:11 < mouseghost> night
2021-09-27T01:36:27 < Steffanx> Youre early jadew
2021-09-27T01:37:11 < mouseghost> zyp, im also pretty impressed with their quality
2021-09-27T01:38:04 < Steffanx> is that a 2 or 4 layer board zyp?
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2021-09-27T01:57:47 < mawk> us pros only do 14 layers ste
2021-09-27T01:57:50 < mawk> Steffanx 
2021-09-27T02:03:30 < Steffanx> 14. Makes sense
2021-09-27T02:29:38 < karlp> what size caps are those zyp? 0402?
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2021-09-27T02:42:55 < karlp> man, aliexpress is so strange.  shipping on things frrom the same vendor are all over the place
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2021-09-27T09:02:44 < zyp> Steffanx, 4L, 0402
2021-09-27T09:10:38 < jadew> Steffanx, yeah, I'm trying.
2021-09-27T09:11:16 < jadew> is there go-to module for LoRa?
2021-09-27T09:11:24 < jadew> +a
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2021-09-27T10:18:48 < Laurenceb> n00b question
2021-09-27T10:19:00 < Laurenceb> could the LM4040 be used like a regular diode?
2021-09-27T10:21:39 < jadew> by definition, but it seems to be rated for very low current
2021-09-27T10:23:05 < Laurenceb> hmm in the datasheet? where?
2021-09-27T10:23:13 < jadew> absolute maximum ratings
2021-09-27T10:23:27 < jadew> I think 10 mA is max
2021-09-27T10:25:50 < Laurenceb> ah yeah good spot
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2021-09-27T10:51:54 < jadew> not sure wth is going on with youtube, it keeps playing videos on lowest resolution
2021-09-27T10:55:57 < mawk> it autodetects your connection speed
2021-09-27T10:56:12 < jadew> I have a 1 Gbps connection :/
2021-09-27T10:56:30 < jadew> it works fine when I switch to HD
2021-09-27T10:56:42 < jadew> maybe I should reboot
2021-09-27T10:59:23 < jadew> I can't, I have tabs opened that I have to get to
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2021-09-27T11:21:42 < mawk> you can save your tabs jadew 
2021-09-27T11:21:59 < mawk> jadew: ctrl+shift+d
2021-09-27T11:22:00 < mawk> in chrome
2021-09-27T11:23:41 < jadew> mawk, I'll try it
2021-09-27T11:24:05 < jadew> I have lots of stuff open even since two months ago
2021-09-27T11:25:13 < jadew> I made a really bad investment
2021-09-27T11:25:39 < jadew> has raised my anxiety levels to new heights
2021-09-27T11:26:28 < jadew> I finally somewhat calmed down over the weekend as I decided to just accept the loss and focus on other stuff
2021-09-27T11:29:52 < mawk> unless the bad investment is a wife and you can divorce her, there is nothing you can do
2021-09-27T11:30:48 < jadew> no, the wife is a huge win
2021-09-27T11:30:56 < jadew> I'm lucky to have her
2021-09-27T11:32:10 < zyp> you finally bought bitcoin right before they crashed?
2021-09-27T11:32:35 < jadew> heh, no, I bought Alibaba
2021-09-27T11:33:44 < mawk> it will come back up, after jack ma is shot in public in a stadium and a new CCP-approved CEO is put in his place
2021-09-27T11:33:56 < jadew> right haha
2021-09-27T11:34:16 < jadew> I've lost faith in the stock, as I'm sure have many others
2021-09-27T11:34:35 < jadew> it seemed for a while that it will recover, but the bad news kept piling on
2021-09-27T11:35:11 < jadew> also, the price movement was so fucked up and confusing
2021-09-27T11:36:28 < jadew> I even had a short position at one time, after the 15 billion news, but the damn thing kept going up
2021-09-27T11:36:54 < jadew> I figured the market saw it as the end of all troubles, so I switched to a long position and, it promptly started going down
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2021-09-27T12:13:13 < karlp> what, is the market not "well informed" ?  are all investors not equally informed?  I'm shocked....
2021-09-27T12:47:57 < karlp> cube just crashed three times in a row, differently, just trying to start it up.
2021-09-27T12:48:00 < karlp> Attempt to unlock mutex that was not locked
2021-09-27T12:48:02 < karlp> nice one.
2021-09-27T12:48:35 < jadew> maybe it's a named one?
2021-09-27T12:48:59 < jadew> reboot
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2021-09-27T15:43:19 < Ecco> Hi there :)
2021-09-27T15:43:39 < Ecco> The STM32's datasheet that I'm reading says that the internal SMPS should be connected to VDD throught a ferrite bead
2021-09-27T15:43:47 < Ecco> What's the point of the ferrite bead?
2021-09-27T15:47:08 < jpa-> to block high frequency noise
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2021-09-27T15:48:41 < Ecco> What undesirable side effect could happen without one?
2021-09-27T15:50:11 < jpa-> weird spikes in ADC results, noise emitted to all GPIO lines, your product failing CE testing and your boss yelling at you
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2021-09-27T16:21:48 < BrainDamage> also, stress due to changing design after deployment due to random failures
2021-09-27T16:27:41 < jpa-> that sounds like bad testing
2021-09-27T16:30:07 < englishman> you can always replace a bead with a 0r jumper if you don't need it. it's harder to greenwire in a bead
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2021-09-27T16:35:43 < karlp> but think of the ruthenium waste with that 0r!
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2021-09-27T16:38:30 < mawk> nobody likes ruthenium anyway
2021-09-27T16:38:33 < mawk> let's waste it
2021-09-27T16:39:28 < englishman> you could put a metal jumper then
2021-09-27T16:43:24 < karlp> something like 40 tonnes a year produced, mos of it going into thick film resistors 
2021-09-27T16:43:32 < karlp> interesting production sequence too.
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2021-09-27T18:05:01 < Ecco> I'm still struggling with an SMPS datasheet
2021-09-27T18:05:11 < Ecco> Datasheet says : https://i.imgur.com/CVt28Ky.png
2021-09-27T18:05:26 < Ecco> 4.7 uF cap on SMPS input
2021-09-27T18:05:35 < Ecco> Then "Getting started" application note says
2021-09-27T18:06:04 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/asZ9sLD.png
2021-09-27T18:06:19 < Ecco> So, 4 options. None of which is just one 4.7 uF cap
2021-09-27T18:07:36 < Ecco> What am I supposed to do??
2021-09-27T18:07:48 < zyp> isn't the quote from the AN about Cout1?
2021-09-27T18:08:13 < Ecco> Nope
2021-09-27T18:08:18 < Ecco> let me upload a larger image
2021-09-27T18:08:33 < zyp> how about just link me the AN?
2021-09-27T18:08:37 < zyp> or give me the AN number
2021-09-27T18:08:38 < Fleck> ;p
2021-09-27T18:08:39 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/XG7GcRn.png
2021-09-27T18:08:45 < Ecco> AN5419
2021-09-27T18:09:01 < Ecco> So for Cout1/Cout2, the AN recommends 2x10uF
2021-09-27T18:09:23 < Ecco> which is also what the datasheet says (they just say Cout = 10uF, I think it can be understood as Cout1=Cout2=10uF)
2021-09-27T18:11:02 < zyp> have you looked at page 9?
2021-09-27T18:11:08 < Ecco> Yeah :)
2021-09-27T18:11:17 < Ecco> Well, the AN is consistent with itself, right?
2021-09-27T18:11:25 < Ecco> On page 9 they also recommend 10uF+4.7uF
2021-09-27T18:11:38 < zyp> then why not just do that?
2021-09-27T18:11:50 < Ecco> Because it doesn't match what the datasheet says (4.7 uF)
2021-09-27T18:11:58 < zyp> for capacitance, generally more is better as long as you don't run into inrush issues
2021-09-27T18:11:59 < Ecco> and it doesn't match what they did on the Disco board either
2021-09-27T18:12:07 < Ecco> (just one 10uF)
2021-09-27T18:12:24 < zyp> yeah, sure, one might be enough, but why not just put two?
2021-09-27T18:12:56 < Ecco> Well, I don't mind, really
2021-09-27T18:12:57 < zyp> two might not be much better than one, but it won't be worse
2021-09-27T18:13:09 < Ecco> I'm just wondering why their documents don't "agree" with each other so much
2021-09-27T18:13:17 < zyp> it's a matter of performance vs area cost
2021-09-27T18:13:18 < Ecco> so I don't know which option to pick
2021-09-27T18:13:37 < zyp> pick whatever you can fit in your area and monetary budgets
2021-09-27T18:13:58 < Ecco> Yeah, ok, makes sense :)
2021-09-27T18:14:48 < Ecco> Thanks!
2021-09-27T18:15:00 < Ecco> Another quesiton:
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2021-09-27T18:15:07 < Ecco> I know VDD pairs should have 100nF each
2021-09-27T18:15:13 < Ecco> + one 4.7uF overall
2021-09-27T18:15:24 < Ecco> question: is this written anywhere in the RefMan / Datasheet?
2021-09-27T18:15:44 < Ecco> The only place I see this mentionned is either in the getting started AN or in the disco board schematics
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2021-09-27T18:29:04 < karlp> heh, one of my problems last week was c++ not telling me anything was wrong with doing blah.u32 = some_float....
2021-09-27T18:29:10 < karlp> just happily truncated it to zero.
2021-09-27T18:32:07 -!- drzacek [~drzacek@130-062-074-080.ip-addr.inexio.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2021-09-27T18:35:03 < PaulFertser> Ecco: I opened STM32F051x datasheet, it has the note in "Power supply scheme".
2021-09-27T18:44:44 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-27T18:46:43 < Ecco> I'm reading STM32H725 datasheet. It has a section "Power supply scheme", but that doesn't mention any cap at all :(
2021-09-27T18:47:02 < Ecco> Oh well, there's a note "Refer to application note AN5419 “Getting started with STM32H723/733, STM32H725/735 and STM32H730 Value Line hardware development“ for the possible power scheme and connected capacitors.
2021-09-27T18:47:08 < Ecco> So I guess it's really all in the AN :)
2021-09-27T18:48:32 < Ecco> Another weird inconsistency:
2021-09-27T18:48:47 < Ecco> In the dico board schematics, they use 10uF+100nF to filter VREF+
2021-09-27T18:48:56 < Ecco> In the AN, they say it should be 1uF + 100nF
2021-09-27T18:49:01 < Ecco> who should I believe/copy? :-D
2021-09-27T18:49:09 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T18:49:35 < catphish> such decoupling, very smooth https://i.imgur.com/YNrj9iL.png wow
2021-09-27T18:50:04 < Steffanx> Love the silk screen
2021-09-27T18:50:16 < catphish> lol it's a work of art isn't it
2021-09-27T18:50:24 < catphish> what, you want to read it??!
2021-09-27T18:51:49 < Steffanx> Maybe make it a bit more random. Rotate it randomly, swap around a bit
2021-09-27T18:51:57 < catphish> lol
2021-09-27T18:53:03 < catphish> time to look up board houses minimum font size :)
2021-09-27T18:54:54 < catphish> there doesn't appear to be enough space for a silk screen :'(
2021-09-27T19:01:31 < Ecco> yet another discrepancy
2021-09-27T19:01:43 < Ecco> AN5419 does not mention any ferrite bead for SMPS input
2021-09-27T19:01:50 < Ecco> neither do the RefMan or datasheet
2021-09-27T19:01:57 < Ecco> yet the disco board has one
2021-09-27T19:02:45 -!- steve_ [~steve@ool-182c2aa4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T19:26:55 < catphish> Steffanx: https://i.imgur.com/YnmrDUi.png i hope you're happy, your perfectionism just cost my client money!
2021-09-27T19:29:33 < Steffanx> Haha catphish 
2021-09-27T19:30:26 < Steffanx> But van your perfectionism really deal with every thing next to the part except for c24, r22 and r30? ;)
2021-09-27T19:30:27 < catphish> in all seriousness, i tend to do this at the end, but this board is a little tighter than i'm experienced with, and i think i will need to think about silk screen as i go along
2021-09-27T19:36:32 < catphish> ^ it'll have to :)
2021-09-27T19:47:26 -!- boB_K7IQ [~boB_K7IQ@216.116.10.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
2021-09-27T19:48:21 < jpa-> catphish: how much did it cost them?
2021-09-27T20:05:41 < englishman> unless you have tented vias those inner silks won't come out well
2021-09-27T20:05:55 < englishman> if you move the resistors further away you can move those refdes outside
2021-09-27T20:14:00 < catphish> i assumed tented vias would print fine, but never really thought about it, might look at moving them
2021-09-27T20:14:16 < catphish> jpa-: idk, like 15 minutes, whatever i charge for that, idk
2021-09-27T20:17:36 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
2021-09-27T20:33:41 < Fleck> ldr     r3, [pc, #4] << can anyone interpret please?
2021-09-27T20:33:53 -!- emeb [~ericb@ip174-73-151-51.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T20:43:26 < steve_> Fleck was that compiled by a C compiler?
2021-09-27T20:46:51 < Fleck> C++
2021-09-27T20:51:39 < Steffanx> https://www.instagram.com/julius.colorization/ I know instagram, but pretty damn cool (imho)
2021-09-27T20:52:58 < Steffanx> Also: old
2021-09-27T21:02:56 < zyp> Fleck, r3 = pc[4];
2021-09-27T21:03:25 < zyp> pc-relative loads are typically from a constant pool at the end of the function
2021-09-27T21:04:36 < qyx> catphish: I tend to to remove refs and place a "15x100n" text there instead
2021-09-27T21:15:38 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@37-136-160-77.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T21:16:02 < kakium69> hello dear
2021-09-27T21:29:35 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T21:30:25 < mouseghost> a pretty chinese woman sent her picture to me in reply to business inquiry 
2021-09-27T21:32:19 < kakium69> hmm
2021-09-27T21:33:07 < kakium69> normal
2021-09-27T21:33:42 < kakium69> what business?
2021-09-27T21:34:06 < mouseghost> kakium69, chemistry
2021-09-27T21:34:22 < kakium69> a bit sus
2021-09-27T21:34:27 < mouseghost> why?
2021-09-27T21:34:33 < kakium69> what you cookin?
2021-09-27T21:34:39 < mouseghost> i just needed to check for metol prices
2021-09-27T21:34:43 < kakium69> 8)
2021-09-27T21:34:50 < mouseghost> cus they are high as fuck here and i was wondering if they were lower in the my friend spectrum
2021-09-27T21:34:57 < kakium69> what is metol
2021-09-27T21:35:01 < kakium69> never heard
2021-09-27T21:35:04 < mouseghost> developing agent i think
2021-09-27T21:35:07 < mouseghost> for photography
2021-09-27T21:35:09 < kakium69> ah
2021-09-27T21:35:12 < mouseghost> thats what i want it for, at least
2021-09-27T21:35:20 < mouseghost> on alibaba it said 8-35 dorra for a kilo of metol
2021-09-27T21:35:42 < mouseghost> and i was like, wow, low price, let me ask (cause here its like hmm, a lot more a kg)
2021-09-27T21:35:47 < mouseghost> but she replied and said 400 usd, and this is the price i see here
2021-09-27T21:35:51 < mouseghost> so
2021-09-27T21:35:52 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-27T21:36:21 < kakium69> just say you are from mouseghost imports limited
2021-09-27T21:37:07 < mouseghost> kakium69, nah i dont import shit for the living 
2021-09-27T21:39:09 < kakium69> do you need a kilo
2021-09-27T21:43:27 -!- wwilly [~wwilly@fw-tnat-cam4.arm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
2021-09-27T21:49:35 < mouseghost> nah
2021-09-27T21:49:39 < mouseghost> more like 10g kakium69
2021-09-27T21:49:44 < mouseghost> i was just wondering about the price
2021-09-27T21:51:17 < Steffanx> Any nice analog pictures you can digitalize to show us, mouseghost ?
2021-09-27T21:51:38 < mouseghost> Steffanx, would showing them on the telegram be good?
2021-09-27T21:51:49 < Steffanx> Sure. 
2021-09-27T21:52:40 < Steffanx> Doesn't have to be in the public ##stm32 group though 
2021-09-27T21:57:14 < mouseghost> Steffanx, too late
2021-09-27T22:01:27 < Steffanx> What kind of vintage camera do you have?
2021-09-27T22:02:49 < mouseghost> Steffanx, vivitar xv-1
2021-09-27T22:09:03 < Steffanx> Ah, vintage it is. older than me :)
2021-09-27T22:12:56 -!- wwilly [~wwilly@cpc92794-cmbg19-2-0-cust589.5-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T22:20:38 < catphish> qyx: not a bad idea :)
2021-09-27T22:21:50 < catphish> this is the first time i've done electronic design for someone else, it's going quite well i think :) the customer likes big through hole test points, which adds fun to a dense board
2021-09-27T22:22:26 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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2021-09-27T22:26:14 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@12.69.225.50] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-27T22:27:30 < upgrdman> trying to run java17 on the original pi. the "arm32" adoptium build just crashes with a seg fault. any idea why?
2021-09-27T22:28:16 < PaulFertser> Original raspberrypi 1 is armv6 .
2021-09-27T22:28:33 < upgrdman> armv6 != arm32?
2021-09-27T22:29:03 < PaulFertser> You can't tell unless you know what gcc options (march/mtune/mcpu) exactly were used for that "arm32".
2021-09-27T22:29:27 < upgrdman> shit. the s390 and ppc are still officially supported, but a 5 year old pi is not. :/
2021-09-27T22:30:14 < PaulFertser> That first rpi board was rather unfortunate to have an uncommon architecture. None of the mainstream distros could run on it.
2021-09-27T22:30:19 < upgrdman> well i guess its >5 years, but still
2021-09-27T22:30:26 < upgrdman> true
2021-09-27T22:31:05 < upgrdman> i wonder if the pi1 processor supports any SIMD instructions
2021-09-27T22:31:44 < upgrdman> i was hoping to test the new java vector api on my laptop/pi1/pi4/vps droplet and see how they compare
2021-09-27T22:32:44 < PaulFertser> upgrdman: rpi1 has vfp but not neon.
2021-09-27T22:32:50 < upgrdman> fwiw, my $5 digitalocean droplet is ~4x slower than my surface pro 7 in a quick test i did :)
2021-09-27T22:32:55 < upgrdman> k
2021-09-27T22:33:56 < upgrdman> vfp means only basic SIMD float stuff, but nothing for integers/bools/etc, right?
2021-09-27T22:36:49 < PaulFertser> I do not think VFP means any SIMD at all, but I'm not sure.
2021-09-27T22:39:00 < PaulFertser> "VFP can perform vector operations across "banks" of registers"
2021-09-27T22:39:20 < englishman> original pi is about 9 years old is it not?
2021-09-27T22:39:59 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has quit [Quit: damned mouse]
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2021-09-27T22:42:30 < Ecco> Is there any ST sample board that works an USB Type-C device? I could use some reference schematics for that :)
2021-09-27T22:43:15 < Ecco> Afaik, VFP is just not a vector processor
2021-09-27T22:43:38 < Ecco> I don't know where the name comes from. But it's just a FPU really (as in, hardware implementation of IEEE754 operations)
2021-09-27T22:44:59 < PaulFertser> Ecco: see quote above ^^
2021-09-27T22:46:38 < upgrdman> PaulFertser, i dont quite understand. so VFP is a half-assed SIMD thing, where it doesnt have dedicated registers, it just reuses scalar registers?
2021-09-27T22:46:57 < upgrdman> so is it any faster than scalar op codes? like does it have >1 FPU?
2021-09-27T22:47:13 < PaulFertser> upgrdman: no, VFP is an FPU which can also like multiply vectors size 3 when all arguments are in FPU registers.
2021-09-27T22:47:29 < upgrdman> o
2021-09-27T22:48:00 < upgrdman> heh, well i guess its almost time to retire my pi1's and the pi-zero that i still haven't opened yet
2021-09-27T22:48:38 < upgrdman> some china company emailed me offered a free 11" 1080p pi lcd/case thinggy if i do a youtube video
2021-09-27T22:48:53 < mouseghost> you up to compare online iq/aq test results?
2021-09-27T22:48:56 < upgrdman> kinda tempted. i could use a small lcd for random stuff
2021-09-27T22:49:03 < mouseghost> upgrdman, are you a youtuber
2021-09-27T22:49:12 < upgrdman> guilty
2021-09-27T22:59:44 < kakium69> also software developer
2021-09-27T23:00:08 < kakium69> telemetryviewer is nice
2021-09-27T23:02:08 < zyp> Ecco, stm32g072-disco
2021-09-27T23:02:28 < zyp> I bought one to play with, but haven't really had time yet :)
2021-09-27T23:03:58 < kakium69> upgrdman: I see you have been active with TMV again
2021-09-27T23:04:44 < upgrdman> ya
2021-09-27T23:05:10 < upgrdman> its a pet project that keeps being useful and sucking up my time to improve it more and more
2021-09-27T23:05:44 < upgrdman> spent a lot of time optimizing the data processing code recently. my tablet pc can now process just over 10Gbps of telemetry now :)
2021-09-27T23:05:59 < kakium69> :p
2021-09-27T23:06:57 < upgrdman> playing with SIMD code now, and if i put in enough effort, i can probably get close to 20Gbps, but not sure it would be worth my time or worth the complexity. i dont really need to process >5Gbps
2021-09-27T23:08:55 < kakium69> are there any relevant data rates outside couple of hundred hz
2021-09-27T23:10:14 < kakium69> sent you a cup of coffee
2021-09-27T23:10:22 < mouseghost> upgrdman, what kind of telemetry?
2021-09-27T23:10:48 < upgrdman> well if stm ever restocks their microcontrollers, i designed a 7.2MSps oscope/datalogger. and if it prooves useful i may design a >= 100MSps oscope (fpga, etc.) mainly for fun but with the intent of making something useful
2021-09-27T23:11:17 < kakium69> http://farrellf.com/TelemetryViewer/ mouseghost
2021-09-27T23:11:42 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-27T23:12:17 < mouseghost> looks nice
2021-09-27T23:12:24 < upgrdman> mouseghost, uart/tcp/udp/camera as sources of telemetry
2021-09-27T23:12:28 < mouseghost> nice
2021-09-27T23:12:34 < mouseghost> upgrdman, well, you could just order them and wait
2021-09-27T23:13:42 < upgrdman> mouseghost, "expected lead time: 53 weeks" ... indeed
2021-09-27T23:13:49 < mouseghost> yes
2021-09-27T23:13:55 < mouseghost> so a year
2021-09-27T23:14:11 < upgrdman> if anyone wants to scalp me for a few stm32f730z8t6 chips, let me know :)
2021-09-27T23:50:53 < Fleck> zyp: OK, when PC is 0x80002e0, r3 is 0x80002e8, I however guessed it would be 0x80002e4, why is that? 
2021-09-27T23:51:57 < zyp> that doesn't make sense
2021-09-27T23:52:12 < zyp> you're loading the value stored at pc+4 into r3
2021-09-27T23:52:19 < Fleck> 0x80002e0 <testfunctionA(unsigned long, unsigned short, unsigned char)+4>:   ldr     r3, [pc, #4]    ; (0x80002e8 <testfunctionA(unsigned long, unsigned short, unsigned char)+12>)
2021-09-27T23:56:16 < Fleck> Ill better paste the whole testfunctionA, I guess I am missing something
2021-09-27T23:57:19 < Fleck> https://p.rullz.lv/kixonivono.cpp
--- Day changed Tue Sep 28 2021
2021-09-28T00:03:18 < mawk> technology is against me today
2021-09-28T00:03:28 < mawk> I walked 2h under the rain to buy a paysafeCASH ticket to put moneys on my bank account
2021-09-28T00:03:53 < mawk> the cashier didn't understand properly and sold me a paysafeCARD ticket, which despite being issued by the same company and having an almost identical name isn't compatible and almost worthless
2021-09-28T00:04:03 < mawk> like I'm going to use it to buy video game money or something
2021-09-28T00:04:38 < mawk> then I finally found a pigeon willing to send me a bank wire for cash, and as I receive it the website I wanted to pay on absolutely today before it's too late has a maintenance
2021-09-28T00:07:05 < upgrdman> mawk, why dont you have a real bank account
2021-09-28T00:07:41 < mawk> I have a real bank account upgrdman 
2021-09-28T00:07:42 < mawk> I have even 2
2021-09-28T00:07:52 < Steffanx> Mawk wants to buy drugs
2021-09-28T00:08:00 < Steffanx> Semi-anonymously 
2021-09-28T00:08:09 < upgrdman> so why are you wasting time with some paysafe stuff
2021-09-28T00:08:16 < mawk> bcz I have cash upgrdman 
2021-09-28T00:08:21 < upgrdman> why
2021-09-28T00:08:23 < mawk> and I want to put back the cash on the bank account
2021-09-28T00:08:26 < mawk> why not
2021-09-28T00:08:31 < upgrdman> cash is for drug addicts and prostitutes
2021-09-28T00:08:36 < mawk> everyone has huge amounts of cash in their wallets
2021-09-28T00:08:36 < mawk> :(
2021-09-28T00:08:52 < Steffanx> I still prefer cash as well
2021-09-28T00:08:57 < upgrdman> your bank doesn't let you despoit cash?
2021-09-28T00:09:00 < mawk> not from netherlands upgrdman 
2021-09-28T00:09:02 < Steffanx> Fucking credit wankers you Yankees 😋
2021-09-28T00:09:07 < upgrdman> indeed
2021-09-28T00:09:35 < upgrdman> if i have to use cash for >2 transactions per year, i feel abused
2021-09-28T00:09:37 < Steffanx> I think you actually have to pay money to deposit money
2021-09-28T00:09:51 < upgrdman> lol euro banks
2021-09-28T00:10:06 < Steffanx> Fucking banks want money for everything 
2021-09-28T00:10:36 < Steffanx> My bank doesn't even have a physical location, that doesn't help
2021-09-28T00:10:50 < upgrdman> wut
2021-09-28T00:10:58 < Steffanx> Online banking.
2021-09-28T00:11:00 < Steffanx> Digital.
2021-09-28T00:11:06 < upgrdman> i thought europe was ~developed
2021-09-28T00:11:16 < upgrdman> even china has physical banks... lots of em
2021-09-28T00:11:35 < Steffanx> Online only = progress 
2021-09-28T00:11:42 < Steffanx> At least they think it is
2021-09-28T00:11:50 < upgrdman> in fact, when im in china, 99.9% of the time there is >1 bank within line of sight
2021-09-28T00:12:24 < Steffanx> ATMs all around. No banks
2021-09-28T00:12:31 < upgrdman> theres >20 bank locations within 1km of my china apartment
2021-09-28T00:12:43 < upgrdman> they f'ing love banks
2021-09-28T00:12:58 < upgrdman> more banks than convenience stores
2021-09-28T00:13:47 < zyp> Steffanx, it is
2021-09-28T00:14:00 < zyp> my main bank is also online only, it's great
2021-09-28T00:15:07 < zyp> they've got customer support chat open 18 hours a day, why would I want to have to drop by during a limited window in the middle of the day when I can chat them up whenever?
2021-09-28T00:16:04 < zyp> hmm, they've reduced opening hours, now it's only 15 hours a day
2021-09-28T00:16:31 < zyp> point still stands though
2021-09-28T00:19:17 < jadew> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/804210713982926894/892146796233642054/brexit-leaving-european-union-memes-fb8-png__700.png
2021-09-28T00:20:30 -!- IanW [~IceChat9@jindivik.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye]
2021-09-28T00:21:48 < Steffanx> Yeah, for me it works fine... but then I never ever had to contact them 
2021-09-28T00:23:18 < zyp> I've been with this bank for 13 years or so, they've always been online only and they're rated #1 on customer satisfaction
2021-09-28T00:23:23 < zyp> so they're doing a lot of stuff right
2021-09-28T00:32:24 -!- kakium69 [~kakium69@37-136-160-77.rev.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
2021-09-28T00:34:23 -!- upgrdman [~upgrdman@12.69.225.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
2021-09-28T00:46:21 -!- mouseghost [~draco@user/mouseghost] has quit [Quit: mew wew]
2021-09-28T01:01:40 < machinehum> UK running out of gas?
2021-09-28T01:05:38 -!- sauce [~sauce@omae.wa.mou.shindei.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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2021-09-28T01:08:44 < catphish> machinehum: idividual sellers are running out because there's problems with deliveries coupled with people buying extra
2021-09-28T01:09:07 < catphish> its kind of annoying when you have a motorbike with a small tank :(
2021-09-28T01:10:10 < zyp> better build that EV now
2021-09-28T01:12:11 < catphish> yep!
2021-09-28T01:12:33 < catphish> i emailed the local EV guy asking if he thinks my vx200/leaf mashup will work
2021-09-28T01:12:42 < catphish> he hasn't got back to me yet
2021-09-28T01:12:59 < mawk> zyp Steffanx : at my physical bank I have the direct line of my counselor that I can call outside office hours
2021-09-28T01:13:15 < mawk> she knows me, and she does little arrangements with the security procedures to speed things up for me
2021-09-28T01:13:21 < mawk> you don't get that at online bank
2021-09-28T01:13:44 < zyp> doesn't sound like something I need
2021-09-28T01:13:51 < zyp> what security procedures?
2021-09-28T01:15:17 < mawk> like requiring my signature to open a credit
2021-09-28T01:15:27 < mawk> or requiring my physical presence to change my phone number or address
2021-09-28T01:15:32 < zyp> wat
2021-09-28T01:15:34 < mawk> she just waves it away "I'll sign for you"
2021-09-28T01:15:37 < mawk> lol
2021-09-28T01:15:42 < mawk> I feel very safe in this ban
2021-09-28T01:15:42 < zyp> you don't have instant digital signatures for that sort of shit?
2021-09-28T01:15:43 < mawk> k
2021-09-28T01:15:52 < mawk> for a loan?
2021-09-28T01:15:57 < mawk> not really
2021-09-28T01:16:06 < mawk> and changing phone number is a sensitive thing
2021-09-28T01:16:23 < mawk> you don't have an instant procedure for that, the phone number is the token you use to authorize debits and payments and all that
2021-09-28T01:16:32 < mawk> if anyone with your password could change it it's an issue
2021-09-28T01:18:02 < zyp> for loans, sure
2021-09-28T01:18:48 < zyp> I moved my house loan to a new bank a few weeks ago, yet another online only bank
2021-09-28T01:19:14 < zyp> signed all the paperwork online too
2021-09-28T01:20:59 < zyp> same thing when I got the car loan for my previous car
2021-09-28T01:21:55 < zyp> for the new cars I actually signed some papers and dropped it in the mail this morning though
2021-09-28T01:23:05 < zyp> apparently the paperwork can only be signed digitally if the car already has a license plate number, so I could either wait or sign it on paper
2021-09-28T01:23:22 < zyp> last time I just waited, this time I figured I'll just do the paperwork ahead of time
2021-09-28T01:23:57 < zyp> I think they cheat a bit and add the license plate number later on the paper I signed, and that can't be done with a digitally signed document :p
2021-09-28T01:24:06 < catphish> wow the ray tracing in kicad looks sexy https://i.imgur.com/QdrMzIt.png
2021-09-28T01:27:04 < zyp> I like having boards over having renders :p
2021-09-28T01:27:55 < catphish> nah, i like renders, your mistakes don't matter ;)
2021-09-28T01:28:49 < zyp> a board with fuckups is still more useful than a render
2021-09-28T01:28:57 < catphish> not always ;)
2021-09-28T01:29:06 < zyp> never less :)
2021-09-28T01:29:07 < catphish> but at least you can play with it
2021-09-28T01:30:06 < catphish> i actually ordered and assembled a board where i'd accidentally sent a track sideways right across a bus, shorted it, totally useless
2021-09-28T01:30:22 < catphish> in fact an autorouter did and i was too dumb to even check it
2021-09-28T01:32:33 < zyp> have you heard about DRC?
2021-09-28T01:33:29 < mawk> democratic republic of corea?
2021-09-28T01:37:24 < catphish> i did now
2021-09-28T01:37:46 < catphish> it says my design is flawless, so it must be
2021-09-28T01:38:00 < zyp> very good
2021-09-28T01:38:10 < catphish> though this current design probably has too much power flowing through single 0.2mm vias
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2021-09-28T04:03:22 < fenugrec> wow haha USR still makes 56k modems with probably the same injection mold since the 90s, www.usr.com/usr-root/products/56k-dialup-modem/usr5686g/ 
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2021-09-28T04:35:30 < englishman> beautiful
2021-09-28T04:35:48 < englishman> i took apart a competitor's product from ~2000 today that they are still selling
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2021-09-28T04:36:38 < englishman> analogue board is entirely through-hole and very beautiful. mcu is a PLCC freescale-marked 68k. socketed PLCC flash/eeprom as well
2021-09-28T04:36:52 < englishman> also power/display board is entirely through-hole
2021-09-28T04:37:18 < englishman> but there are many of the same design cues present in their current imx6/assdroid product
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2021-09-28T04:46:58 < englishman> that usr modem even has win10 drivers!
2021-09-28T04:47:57 < englishman> conformity updated this year! https://support.usr.com/support/5686g/5686g-files/CE_USR5686G.pdf
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2021-09-28T10:13:50 < mawk> >Capable of receiving at up to 56 Kbps and sending at up to 48 Kbps (or 31.2 Kbps with V.90 server). Due to FCC regulations, receiving speeds are limited to 53 Kbps.
2021-09-28T10:18:20 < jpa-> upgrading your internet connection?
2021-09-28T10:18:53 < jpa-> https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/06/circuits/qa/11ask.html
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2021-09-28T12:23:14 < karlp> englishman: yeah, I've taken apart a variety of power meters, and you normally go, huh, wat? and then, "oh, I bet this is the same as the one from 15 years ago.... with minor ugprades here and there"
2021-09-28T12:23:50 < karlp> and I mean, we've got one ourselves that was two boards, and both have been upgraded separately, but retaining some of the original design decisions, because it was a smaller lower risk change at the time.
2021-09-28T12:24:09 < karlp> but right now, I've been like, "why didnt' we redo that from scrath like we wanted, it would have been better/faster/cheaper"
2021-09-28T12:28:15 < zyp> because a series of small steps is easier than one big leap
2021-09-28T12:28:27 < zyp> and easier to justify
2021-09-28T12:28:39 < karlp> oh totally, I said to do it that way :)
2021-09-28T12:28:47 < karlp> hindsight and all that.
2021-09-28T12:31:36 < ventyl> until pace of small steps is not enough and you have to overhaul everything. usually at the least suitable time
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2021-09-28T14:27:51 < karlp> so, if you configure the oversampler, it just handles that internally, no sample rates are adjusted or anything, you just get new samples every N* configured sampling time, where N is y9ur oversampling ratio
2021-09-28T14:27:55 < karlp> so far, so good.
2021-09-28T14:28:33 < karlp> but ifyou're triggering the adc at a certain rate, and your oversampling+channel sampling time results in it being longer than the trigger time, you get.... nothing.
2021-09-28T14:28:46 < karlp> no overrun, no error flags, just... not the data rate you expect.
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2021-09-28T15:52:48 < Ecco> zyp: Thanks for pointing stm32g072-disco :)
2021-09-28T15:53:14 < Ecco> I assume it's F072 though?
2021-09-28T15:54:35 < Ecco> wait no
2021-09-28T15:54:51 < Ecco> I can't find the G072 version though
2021-09-28T15:56:31 < Ecco> Found stm32g071b-disco
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2021-09-28T17:30:47 < bitmask> https://imgur.com/gallery/t0nCEWZ
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2021-09-28T17:49:03 < catphish> EV expert says i should put a tesla engine in my VX220, not a leaf :D
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2021-09-28T18:01:29 < specing> motor*
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2021-09-28T18:37:41 < bitmask> jesus, people in africa are snorting catalytic converter contents to get fucked up
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2021-09-28T18:38:32 < dodo_> Hello, do you know if there is any channel to discuss about stm32duino?
2021-09-28T18:38:57 < catphish> well, here, and #arduino would be obvious candidates i guess :)
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2021-09-28T18:39:17 < catphish> not sure i've seen much mention of it here, but people probably know
2021-09-28T18:42:33 < dodo_> I'm using an STM32L152RE with stm32duino. I'm suffering from an I2C busy problem, but I'm not really sure. The problem arise randomly after a few hours.
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2021-09-28T18:44:05 < catphish> those are the worst to debug :(
2021-09-28T18:44:40 < dodo_> I have tried to reset all I2C slaves devices by power cycling them one by one, but that doesn't help. If I do a Wire.begin() (a Wire.end() is executed before, but don't know if it is really needed) it fixes the problem, and it continues for another few hours.
2021-09-28T18:45:07 < dodo_> catphish: those kind of problems related to i2c? or those microcontrollers?
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2021-09-28T18:45:47 < catphish> i just mean problems that occur randomly after several hours
2021-09-28T18:47:04 < srk> isn
2021-09-28T18:47:30 < srk> isn't that a similar bug to F1 series where you need to disable i2c and wiggle pins to recover?
2021-09-28T18:49:51 < dodo_> its probably similar... At first I implemented that stuff to bitbang the SCL line, which also worked.
2021-09-28T18:51:19 < dodo_> srk: do you know if there was a way to fix (to avoid the problem), or it was just a workaround after the problem was detected?
2021-09-28T18:52:13 < srk> dodo_: just a workaround, to avoid it you need to use a more recent MCU
2021-09-28T18:52:45 < srk> but quite common workaround included in some drivers, not sure about stm32duino tho
2021-09-28T18:53:11 < Ecco> I'm looking for a reference schematics to update a Micro-B device to USB Type-C
2021-09-28T18:53:26 < Ecco> On ST's website, they always talk about Power Delivery, and I'm pretty sure I don't need it
2021-09-28T18:53:36 < Ecco> (the device will sink less than 500mA)
2021-09-28T18:56:26 < srk> dodo_: check the L1 errata if it's the same thingie
2021-09-28T18:59:18 < srk> hmm. doesn't seem to be the case
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2021-09-28T19:35:36 < englishman> Ecco: not much to do. put a 5.1k resistor on each of the CC lines and tie the two DP and two DN together. done
2021-09-28T19:35:48 < englishman> you can read the FREE usb-c spec if you want but that's pretty much it
2021-09-28T19:35:59 < englishman> PD is a completely different spec that builds on top of usb-c
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2021-09-28T19:41:06 < bitmask> haha I wanted to try making my own laser galvo but the magnet I got is huge, its the only tube magnet thats diametric that I could find, at least on ebay. 
2021-09-28T19:41:08 < qyx> Ecco: if you find it I am interested too
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2021-09-28T19:41:20 < bitmask> its 1/2" outer diameter and 1" long
2021-09-28T19:41:40 < bitmask> its strong as FUCK though
2021-09-28T19:41:47 < bitmask> n48 supposedly and i believe it
2021-09-28T19:41:52 < qyx> englishman: last time zyp wrote something about that not being enougn
2021-09-28T19:42:04 < qyx> because you may still get 100 mA legacy
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2021-09-28T19:42:35 < qyx> 5 V at 500 mA would be ok for me too
2021-09-28T19:48:38 < englishman> qyx: I’d like to read that. I don’t think that switching to usbC will be any worse if you decide to connect your thing to 30 year old ancient shit.
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2021-09-28T20:31:22 < bitmask> fuck what am i doing
2021-09-28T20:33:03 < kakium69> indeed
2021-09-28T20:33:13 < bitmask> how is it 1:30pm already
2021-09-28T20:33:44 < kakium69> time transport
2021-09-28T20:34:08 < bitmask> should I read or do some coding
2021-09-28T20:34:29 < kakium69> what was your plan for the day?
2021-09-28T20:36:42 < bitmask> nothing crazy, running some errands, designing/printing a reading lamp, reading c++ book, reading vulkan spec/tuts, coding...
2021-09-28T20:36:52 < kakium69> personally I read only the photos in books
2021-09-28T20:36:57 < bitmask> heh
2021-09-28T20:37:05 < bitmask> im halfway through book 1 of 5 that I ordered
2021-09-28T20:37:15 < kakium69> anything useful?
2021-09-28T20:37:20 < bitmask> definitely
2021-09-28T20:37:54 < bitmask> i only ever read beginner/basic c++ language books. so it shows everything you can do, but not what you should do
2021-09-28T20:38:13 < bitmask> finally reading more advanced books that tell you what you should do and i regret not doing it decades ago
2021-09-28T20:39:28 < bitmask> plus my dumb ass never took the time to learn modern c++ stuffs so a couple of the books are on modern shizz
2021-09-28T20:42:01 < Steffanx> Like c++20 modern?
2021-09-28T20:42:29 < bitmask> unfortunately no, but after i read these i'll look for 20/23 stuff even
2021-09-28T20:43:06 < bitmask> i think one book goes into '17
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2021-09-28T21:18:06 < Ecco> ST keeps on pushing USB-PD
2021-09-28T21:18:17 < Ecco> But I just want to do a dumb USB2 sink
2021-09-28T21:18:28 < Ecco> It's annoying that they wouldn't have an AN that covers this very basic use case
2021-09-28T21:19:18 < kakium69> wym?
2021-09-28T21:21:01 < Ecco> I mean that all of their AN are about USB-PowerDelivery. Which, AFAIK, is not required if you just want to do USB2+5V sink over a TypeC connector
2021-09-28T21:25:24 < Ecco> qyx: STM32L562E-DK
2021-09-28T21:25:40 < Ecco> Sheet 9 of the schematics
2021-09-28T21:26:16 < Ecco> https://i.imgur.com/Ev51J7l.png
2021-09-28T21:26:28 < Ecco> Here's what ST has to say about device-only USB-C
2021-09-28T21:26:47 < Ecco> Question: why would you want to monitor the CC pins with the STM32 in that scenario?
2021-09-28T21:28:25 < qyx> the whole TCCP01 is probbaly redundant
2021-09-28T21:28:36 < upgrdman> anyone know of something like a relay driver, for 24vdc, but push-pull, not just open-collector?
2021-09-28T21:29:05 < qyx> upgrdman: search for motor drivers, they are push pull
2021-09-28T21:29:09 < qyx> for inductive loads
2021-09-28T21:29:27 < qyx> Ecco: thats what zyp said, to check how much current you are allowed to sink
2021-09-28T21:29:47 < kakium69> Ecco: is that chip like TVS plus some simple logics?
2021-09-28T21:30:05 < kakium69> some voltage comparator for vbus
2021-09-28T21:31:55 < Ecco> kakium69: well, maybe :)
2021-09-28T21:32:26 < Ecco> It also protects CC pins against ESD
2021-09-28T21:32:37 < kakium69> people here use usb-c all the time
2021-09-28T21:32:37 < Ecco> qyx: I missed this comment
2021-09-28T21:32:52 < kakium69> and I don't see them using that chip
2021-09-28T21:32:52 < Ecco> I assume you can always sink 500mA, right?
2021-09-28T21:33:03 < kakium69> after enumeration
2021-09-28T21:33:12 < kakium69> but basically yes
2021-09-28T21:33:14 < Ecco> Right
2021-09-28T21:33:40 < kakium69> if you go by the book it's 100mA until enumeration
2021-09-28T21:33:44 < kakium69> then 500mA
2021-09-28T21:33:49 < Ecco> Well, here's what I assume you need: ESD on all pins, TVS on Vbus, and then a couple resistors for CC1/2
2021-09-28T21:34:08 < Ecco> kakium69: Indeed :) I have yet to see a host that will not let you sink 500mA right off the bat though :)
2021-09-28T21:34:21 < Ecco> How would USB fans work otherwise? :-D
2021-09-28T21:35:05 < kakium69> or usb coffee cup heaters
2021-09-28T21:36:57 < kakium69> I have never done usb-c
2021-09-28T21:37:12 < kakium69> but are CC pins even required to be connected to anything?
2021-09-28T21:38:04 < kakium69> or to mcu
2021-09-28T21:40:28 < Ecco> Well, you need to connect them to gnd through a resistor if you want to be a device
2021-09-28T21:40:53 < kakium69> then you do that
2021-09-28T21:41:19 < kakium69> just connect the other pins like it was some usb2.0 connector
2021-09-28T21:42:33 < kakium69> what was the problem I forgot
2021-09-28T21:43:23 < englishman> did you read my 3 lines of chat ecco ?
2021-09-28T21:43:53 < englishman> why are you reading ST docs and not USB-C docs ?
2021-09-28T21:51:16 < Ecco> I did :) I'm also reading the USB-C docs
2021-09-28T21:51:23 < Ecco> but usually they don't cover stuff like ESD
2021-09-28T21:51:46 < englishman> i just put the classic USBLC6
2021-09-28T21:51:57 < englishman> no need to protect CC pins, there's nothing there except a resistor
2021-09-28T21:52:13 < englishman> you can worry about 20v OVP if you want, and short-to-vbus if you want but meh
2021-09-28T21:53:09 < kakium69> leave vbus unconnected from USBLC6?
2021-09-28T21:53:19 < qyx> ok, usb spec says if you are usb 2.0 only and you detect vbus, you enter SNK attached state
2021-09-28T21:53:30 < qyx> in which you can draw no more than 500 mA
2021-09-28T21:53:40 < Ecco> works for me :)
2021-09-28T21:53:56 < Ecco> kakium69: Apparently Vbus should not be connected to USBLC6
2021-09-28T21:53:58 < qyx> so yes, if you are sink only and connected to usb-c source, two resistors are enough if < 500 mA
2021-09-28T21:54:00 < Ecco> I'm not sure I remember why
2021-09-28T21:55:51 < englishman> kaks no, vbus to usblc6
2021-09-28T21:57:36 < qyx> continuing, usb-c sink should 1. follow usb2/usb3.2 specs to negotiate power, if not 2. try usb-pd, if not 3. try usb BC 1.2, if not 4. draw up to 500 mA
2021-09-28T21:57:45 < kakium69> so initially it's always guaranteed to have 5v?
2021-09-28T21:58:02 < qyx> so it seems to be safe to fallback to 500 mA and ignore everything else
2021-09-28T21:58:28 < englishman> yes
2021-09-28T21:58:40 < englishman> kaks if the resistors are present yes
2021-09-28T21:58:43 < qyx> they also say minimum for usb2.0 is 500 mA
2021-09-28T21:58:47 < englishman> yes
2021-09-28T21:59:03 < qyx> so fuckup happens only if you connect usb A-C cable to a usb1.1 port
2021-09-28T21:59:07 < qyx> allowing 100 mA max
2021-09-28T21:59:16 < englishman> i think its not even that. more like usb 1.0
2021-09-28T21:59:18 < qyx> and yo want more
2021-09-28T22:00:16 < englishman> but thats yakshaving now
2021-09-28T22:00:21 < englishman> 500mA = yes
2021-09-28T22:06:15 < qyx> USB4 devices shall draw only up to 250 mA on V BUS when the Source advertises
2021-09-28T22:06:15 < qyx> Default USB power
2021-09-28T22:06:23 < qyx> uhm, there is a regression in usb4?
2021-09-28T22:07:34 -!- catphish [~charlie@user/catphish] has joined ##stm32
2021-09-28T22:07:36 < qyx> I don't get it, usb4 source must provide at least 1.5 A
2021-09-28T22:07:50 < qyx> but it can advertise default, 1.5 A or 3.0 A
2021-09-28T22:08:03 < qyx> with default, only 250 mA is allowed to sink
2021-09-28T22:08:08 < qyx> you have to use usb-pd
2021-09-28T22:08:19 < qyx> but but! you don't have to, they say right in the next statement
2021-09-28T22:08:30 < qyx> you can use CC negotiation and sink 1.5 A or 3.0 A
2021-09-28T22:08:33 < qyx> wtf am I reading
2021-09-28T22:10:49 < englishman> haha
2021-09-28T22:11:01 < englishman> cc "negotiation" being measuring voltages right
2021-09-28T22:11:28 < qyx> yes
2021-09-28T22:13:13 < englishman> does the usb spec even have anything about power?
2021-09-28T22:13:16 < englishman> isnt it in the connector spec
2021-09-28T22:13:48 < englishman> 2.1.3 USB4 Power
2021-09-28T22:13:49 < englishman> Power for USB4 operation is established and managed as defined in the USB Type-C Specification and the USB PD Specification. Unlike USB 2.0 and USB 3.2, USB4 does not define its own VBUS-based power model.
2021-09-28T22:13:57 < kakium69> just follow the mile long flow chart to get your power negotiated
2021-09-28T22:14:02 < qyx> I am reading usb-c connector/cable specs
2021-09-28T22:14:08 < qyx> Universal Serial Bus
2021-09-28T22:14:08 < qyx> Type-C Cable and Connector
2021-09-28T22:14:09 < qyx> Specification
2021-09-28T22:14:54 < qyx> so it looks like you can even implement usb-c source with resistors only
2021-09-28T22:15:27 < englishman> yes
2021-09-28T22:17:30 < englishman> ha so if your device is usb4 yeah you are limited to 250mA without PD
2021-09-28T22:17:57 < upgrdman> anyone know why the datasheet shows that the load must be connected to "VM" when it looks like a bunch of half-bridges, so it should be able to drive the OUT pins to VM anyway?  https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv8955.pdf?ts=1632813505759&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FDRV8955
2021-09-28T22:18:22 < englishman> but remember qyx that PD and an active cable is already required for USB3 over C
2021-09-28T22:19:01 < englishman> not a bad spec imo
2021-09-28T22:19:26 < qyx> USB4 devices may draw higher levels of power prior to a USB PD power
2021-09-28T22:19:26 < qyx> contract being made if the Source advertises USB Type-C Current at either
2021-09-28T22:19:27 < qyx> 1.5 A or 3.0 A.
2021-09-28T22:19:30 < qyx> and whats that
2021-09-28T22:19:45 < englishman> that way when you plug a usb4 device into an old-usb upstream usbc, shit will be able to error out
2021-09-28T22:19:54 < qyx> so if the source advertises legacy, you can draw only 250 mA
2021-09-28T22:20:02 < englishman> right, before PD negot
2021-09-28T22:20:18 < qyx> but if it advertises 1.5 A and you dtect it, you may draw it
2021-09-28T22:20:21 < englishman> yes
2021-09-28T22:20:25 < qyx> even without pd
2021-09-28T22:20:31 < qyx> k then, makes sense
2021-09-28T22:20:31 < qyx> partial
2021-09-28T22:20:33 < englishman> yes, though usb3+ requires PD
2021-09-28T22:21:20 < englishman> it's to ensure devices still work or can at least display errors when plugged into a non-usb4 port
2021-09-28T22:21:23 < kakium69> upgrdman: do higher and lower fets have the same parameters?
2021-09-28T22:22:16 < qyx> so Ecco ^
2021-09-28T22:24:12 < kakium69> upgrdman: does higher side have current sense?
2021-09-28T22:24:24 < kakium69> or is it just ground side
2021-09-28T22:24:44 < upgrdman> not sure
2021-09-28T22:24:45 < kakium69> I think that's why
2021-09-28T22:24:54 < kakium69> it has low side current sense
2021-09-28T22:26:20 < upgrdman> if i dont care about current sense, i shouldnt need to connect my load to VM?
2021-09-28T22:26:41 < upgrdman> (i can connect my load between that driver ic and gnd?)
2021-09-28T22:27:18 < upgrdman> i really just need a bunch of half-bridges good for 24VDC and hopefully robust with inductive loads
2021-09-28T22:30:31 < kakium69> OCP section says every fet has current sense
2021-09-28T22:30:57 < kakium69> there is equal number of VM's and PGND's
2021-09-28T22:31:20 < kakium69> I assume having low side switching in just the way stuff is done in automotive world
2021-09-28T22:31:39 < kakium69> so they illustrate it so in the example circuit
2021-09-28T22:32:13 < kakium69> you can have like individual fuses etc.
2021-09-28T22:32:34 < kakium69> idk
2021-09-28T22:36:26 < kakium69> usually easier to have big ground wire to vehicle chassis from your brain box
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2021-09-28T22:37:15 < kakium69> ventyl: why automotive world uses low-side switching of the loads?
2021-09-28T22:37:38 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, still want to read the article :p?
2021-09-28T22:38:16 < ventyl> kakium69: I guess it is easier and historically, loads were dumb, so it didn't matter much
2021-09-28T22:38:16 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I guess yes
2021-09-28T22:38:38 < ventyl> you had high side connected to some kind of master-off and switched low side via electronics
2021-09-28T22:38:53 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-28T22:39:07 < kakium69> high side connects to power regions
2021-09-28T22:39:31 < ventyl> as long as your load is not sensitive to ground offset, low-side switching doesn't matter
2021-09-28T22:39:50 < kakium69> motors, solenoids whatnot
2021-09-28T22:40:02 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, im not sure if you use dcc?
2021-09-28T22:40:16 < ventyl> high-side switching with mosfets in automotive would probably be plain PITA
2021-09-28T22:40:33 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: via IPv6 it can work, not sure, most probably firewalled.
2021-09-28T22:40:38 < mouseghost> ah
2021-09-28T22:41:09 < ventyl> kakium69: but as EC motors are coming into majority, even there the situation will change
2021-09-28T22:41:22 < kakium69> EC?
2021-09-28T22:41:27 < ventyl> brushless
2021-09-28T22:41:43 < kakium69> electronic control
2021-09-28T22:42:06 < dodo_> Can I return from a timer interrupt service routine to different point in the code? Let's say that I want to monitor the time it takes to execute a function in my code using a timer. if it is longer than a certain period of time the timer will trigger, and from the interrupt service routine I want to jump (goto?) to the beginning of main()
2021-09-28T22:42:30 < ventyl> not without nasty side-effects
2021-09-28T22:43:09 < ventyl> you could do that by issuing software reset, but that would cause loss of all data
2021-09-28T22:44:26 < kakium69> sounds like a job for watchdog
2021-09-28T22:44:30 < ventyl> you could implement very tiny thread switcher (essentially about 4 functions) and in case that function takes too long to finish, suspend it's thread and resume another (monitor of some kind)
2021-09-28T22:45:00 < ventyl> depends on what is your desired effect, if you simply want to reset runout SW, then use watchdog, it is implemented in HW
2021-09-28T22:45:24 < kakium69> why to return to begin of main()?
2021-09-28T22:47:08 < dodo_> the problem is with the I2C getting locked. if the function take too much time it is probably a lock. I was thinking of having the routine to unlock the i2c there
2021-09-28T22:47:39 < dodo_> I learned to just set flags in the ISR. is there any limit to what is being run there? can i have the unlocking routine there in the ISR?
2021-09-28T22:47:40 < ventyl> well, then perform I2C operations in non-blocking fashion
2021-09-28T22:48:01 < kakium69> *
2021-09-28T22:48:18 < kakium69> what ventyl said
2021-09-28T22:48:31 < ventyl> every HAL will have some way to query I2C if data is available for reading and/or writing will block or not
2021-09-28T22:49:07 < ventyl> you can then check some asynchronous timer for how long have you been waiting for I2C to become ready and if it takes too long to do so, you can reseti t
2021-09-28T22:49:36 < ventyl> but, I'd expect, that this would only mask the symptom of bug elsewhere in the code. the true root cause of why i2c runs into the weeds.
2021-09-28T22:51:37 < qyx> dodo_: check some existing code with a proper workaround
2021-09-28T22:56:57 < karlp> dongs-unstick-i2c is in zypsnips
2021-09-28T22:57:40 < kakium69> zypsnips in topic
2021-09-28T22:58:01 < dodo_> I'm using stm32duino in a STM32L152RE with a third-party library to drive OneWire devices. I don't feel comfortable changing the HAL   :cry:
2021-09-28T22:58:12 < karlp> then you get to keep having bugs dude.
2021-09-28T22:58:21 < karlp> were you hoping someone was goign to wave a magic wand from afar?
2021-09-28T22:58:38 < dodo_> no, ofcourse not
2021-09-28T23:01:40 < kakium69> karlp: what condition causes this sticking thing?
2021-09-28T23:02:07 < ventyl> dodo_: do something good for yourself and throw *duino into trashcan
2021-09-28T23:15:25 < mouseghost> ^
2021-09-28T23:16:46 < mouseghost> kakium69, hitachi magicwand
2021-09-28T23:29:29 < bitmask> i havent shaved my ball (yes ball) in a long time so decided why not and went for it, now I remember why I stopped...
2021-09-28T23:30:32 < sauce> you got the itch
2021-09-28T23:30:49 < bitmask> short hairs are sharp and pokey 
2021-09-28T23:31:22 < bitmask> nonstop discomfort
2021-09-28T23:31:25 < kakium69> you got one ball removed?
2021-09-28T23:31:36 < mouseghost> bitmask, weird, i dont get such things on balls
2021-09-28T23:31:36 < bitmask> yea cancer
2021-09-28T23:31:44 < mouseghost> what did you shave it with?
2021-09-28T23:31:51 < mouseghost> electric shaver or a razor?
2021-09-28T23:32:01 < bitmask> electric, i needed the guard
2021-09-28T23:32:09 < mouseghost> guard?
2021-09-28T23:32:34 < bitmask> the plastic piece that keeps the sharp bits a certain distance from your sensitive bits
2021-09-28T23:33:04 < bitmask> i mean a razor is easier but i didnt want it THAT short
2021-09-28T23:33:05 < ventyl> he'd like to retain the remaining ball for some time
2021-09-28T23:33:21 < bitmask> then you get razor bumps and all that nasty shit
2021-09-28T23:33:34 < bitmask> or at least i do
2021-09-28T23:33:43 < mouseghost> same
2021-09-28T23:33:48 < mouseghost> though it helps if i disinfect it
2021-09-28T23:34:00 < Steffanx> Since we're at it. What size dildo you prefer bitmask?
2021-09-28T23:34:10 < ventyl>  /o
2021-09-28T23:34:12 < mouseghost> ive been putting some spirit on my face as an after-shave. though maybe it doesnt work
2021-09-28T23:34:36 < mouseghost> ventyl, whats that emote
2021-09-28T23:34:40 < bitmask> a nice thick 7" is good for me
2021-09-28T23:34:45 < bitmask> hits the right spots
2021-09-28T23:34:53 < mouseghost> Steffanx, you ask for the silicone... uh, you know
2021-09-28T23:34:58 < mouseghost> firmness
2021-09-28T23:35:02 < mouseghost> thats the word
2021-09-28T23:35:23 < bitmask> but really, I do have a whatchamacallit
2021-09-28T23:35:27 < bitmask> let me find it
2021-09-28T23:36:52 < ventyl> mouseghost: 2/3 of /o
2021-09-28T23:36:56 < ventyl> mouseghost: 2/3 of /o\
2021-09-28T23:36:58 < mouseghost> hmm
2021-09-28T23:37:06 < mouseghost> ventyl, is that an anus?
2021-09-28T23:37:14 < ventyl> now I got used to ANSI, so I am fucking up on ISO keyboard
2021-09-28T23:37:31 < ventyl> mouseghost: that's a double palmface guy
2021-09-28T23:37:52 < mouseghost> oh!
2021-09-28T23:38:07 < mouseghost> silly me
2021-09-28T23:38:08 < bitmask> i dont think they make the one i have anymore but these dudes are great when you're having sex
2021-09-28T23:38:08 < bitmask> https://www.aneros.com/best-sellers/
2021-09-28T23:39:41 < Steffanx> lol
2021-09-28T23:39:42 < mouseghost> bitmask, plug friend's butt and yours as well? do i get that correctly in the setup?
2021-09-28T23:41:00 < bitmask> you plug yourself then when you are having sex the thrusting motion you're doing causes it to rub your prostate, no batteries needed
2021-09-28T23:41:25 < mouseghost> sounds awesome
2021-09-28T23:41:48 < bitmask> i recommend it, though i havent used it in a while, i always forget about it
2021-09-28T23:45:47 < bitmask> well thats my tip of the day, back to reading! :)
2021-09-28T23:45:53 < mouseghost> reading what? bitmask
2021-09-28T23:46:03 < mouseghost> alas, im far from having sex, so..
2021-09-28T23:46:27 < bitmask> either gonna read more of c++ coding standards by sutter or the vulkan api spec
2021-09-28T23:47:10 < mouseghost> hm
2021-09-28T23:47:19 < mouseghost> im going to continue reading doll's house by ibsen
2021-09-28T23:47:24 < mouseghost> because i need it for english lessons
2021-09-28T23:48:04 < bitmask> i never read real books hah, i always feel like if im gonna read i might as well learn something
2021-09-28T23:48:35 < bitmask> i dont enjoy reading enough to do it for fun
2021-09-28T23:49:14 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: by the way, do you read fiction books?
2021-09-28T23:50:36 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, i do sometimes
2021-09-28T23:50:54 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: sci fi or traditional literature?
2021-09-28T23:51:00 < mouseghost> but to be honest, ive come to a conclusion that i prefer books that pose an artistic value or are non-fiction
2021-09-28T23:51:01 < mouseghost> both
2021-09-28T23:51:16 < mouseghost> bitmask, yeah i rarely read...
2021-09-28T23:51:51 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, the problem with scifi i have, is that its sometimes devoid of any value imo. its just a story and thats all -- i dont like such things 
2021-09-28T23:52:44 < sauce> you just gotta find the stuff that embeds good social or philosophical commentary
2021-09-28T23:52:53 < mouseghost> i v much prefer, although its tiring and shit, when theres some, ugh, depth to the book 
2021-09-28T23:53:02 < mouseghost> sauce, ye. i mean, theres plenty of books like tha
2021-09-28T23:53:05 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: you echo my thoughts
2021-09-28T23:53:08 < mouseghost> all the classics 
2021-09-28T23:53:32 < mouseghost> :)
2021-09-28T23:54:26 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I like Ray Bradbury though even he's often considered a sci-fi author.
2021-09-28T23:54:54 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: and I do not like Dostoevsky somehow :)
2021-09-28T23:55:16 < mouseghost> i only read crime and punishment of his hm
2021-09-28T23:55:22 < mouseghost> but got a bit into karamazov
2021-09-28T23:55:38 < mouseghost> ah f451 is a classic as well i guess
2021-09-28T23:55:55 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: yes, but he wrote much more than that
2021-09-28T23:56:21 < mouseghost> are those books as interesting, PaulFertser ?
2021-09-28T23:56:45 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I think I liked everything I read from him
2021-09-28T23:56:58 < mouseghost> oh
2021-09-28T23:59:36 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: I wonder if you like Milorad Pavic, I highly recommend reading at least something by him unless you're allergic to magic realism or similar. And Paulo Coelho is not a good example of anything (in my book), so do not judge by that.
--- Day changed Wed Sep 29 2021
2021-09-29T00:00:09 < mouseghost> oh i love magical realism, if thats the same thing
2021-09-29T00:00:23 < mouseghost> ive read kafka on the shore and it was awesome in terms of that magic thing
2021-09-29T00:00:29 < mouseghost> and the cats were there too
2021-09-29T00:00:58 < mouseghost> PaulFertser, any particular title youd like to recommend of his?
2021-09-29T00:06:40 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: "The Inner Side of the Wind, or A Novel of Hero and Leander" and if you get it in paper it's comfortable to read as you read it from either side alternating as you please.
2021-09-29T00:06:55 < mouseghost> either side...? hmmm
2021-09-29T00:07:24 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: it's like two books in one, you rotate it and read from the back :)
2021-09-29T00:07:33 < mouseghost> owo
2021-09-29T00:07:36 < mouseghost> sounds... fun
2021-09-29T00:07:43 < mouseghost> ill check it out then
2021-09-29T00:07:48 < mouseghost> and for now, see you, good night
2021-09-29T00:08:00 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: see you, sleep well
2021-09-29T00:08:09 < mouseghost> goodnight
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2021-09-29T00:08:33 < mouseghost> and goodnight to you as well, PaulFertser
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2021-09-29T00:35:55 < catphish> zyp: i bought a VX220 :) apparently i should be using a tesla motor because it has more torque and an integrated diff for mid engine setup
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2021-09-29T09:13:18 < jpa-> hmm, i wonder if evs.ee is the cheapest place to buy european standards; at least it is 10x cheaper than the finnish standards body, and after all the standards are the same in all EU countries
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2021-09-29T09:33:58 < qyx> jpa-:  We're sorry, an internal error occurred.  :(
2021-09-29T09:34:00 < qyx> looks cheap
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2021-09-29T10:15:09 < Steffanx> You can always ask if this guy in his long coat at the corner of the street has a copy. Especially this this sync hronized guy(hint hint) happens to have copies laying around
2021-09-29T10:15:20 < Steffanx> -this
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2021-09-29T13:27:41 < jadew> I just saw an interesting interview on the energy crisis, and some very good points were made, that I tend to believe.
2021-09-29T13:28:12 < qyx> in GB?
2021-09-29T13:28:31 < jadew> Their theory is that the reason we're heading towards a global energy crisis is because we've overinvested in green stuff.
2021-09-29T13:28:55 < jadew> So the flow of capital towards dirty energy, has basically stopped.
2021-09-29T13:29:59 < jadew> qyx, globally, but it was in relation to the EU crisis.
2021-09-29T13:30:43 < drzacek> "overinvestment in green"..."closing nuclear pplants"...
2021-09-29T13:30:49 < drzacek> yeah we played ourselves just right
2021-09-29T13:30:55 < jadew> yep
2021-09-29T13:31:28 < qyx> I just found this https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt6wq56p
2021-09-29T13:31:30 < qyx> from 2014
2021-09-29T13:31:46 < jadew> And they're saying the problem is that prices are too low, so "dirty" energy has very low margin, which is why people won't invest in it anytime soon.
2021-09-29T13:32:10 < jadew> So the solution is to increase prices a lot, so they compete with other sectors and high growth companies.
2021-09-29T13:32:45 < drzacek> killing billions in the process
2021-09-29T13:32:48 < drzacek> sounds like a plan
2021-09-29T13:33:08 < jadew> drzacek, you mean by increasing prices?
2021-09-29T13:33:12 < drzacek> yes
2021-09-29T13:33:34 < jadew> well, if they don't increase prices, then the economy will have to stagnate and we'll get a huge depression
2021-09-29T13:33:51 < drzacek> eastern europe already lives in poverty, increase the power price significantly, and they gonna start eating each other
2021-09-29T13:33:55 < jadew> someone will have to put those numbers against each other
2021-09-29T13:34:02 < drzacek> maybe they'll start burning politicians for heat?
2021-09-29T13:34:17 < qyx> sounds reasonable
2021-09-29T13:34:19 < qyx> no big loss
2021-09-29T13:34:44 < qyx> we are expecting 15% electricity price increase next year in .sk
2021-09-29T13:35:11 < jadew> Sounds like a good time to invest in electricity companies, eh?
2021-09-29T13:36:32 < jadew> I think China is going to solve the problem first, they're already struggling, because their power usage has grown with the economy.
2021-09-29T13:36:55 < jadew> It basically reached a point where they have to allocate it strategically.
2021-09-29T13:39:16 < jadew> Not sure why the media is bashing china so much lately...
2021-09-29T13:39:44 < jadew> They seem to make a fuss about everything and spread a lot of FUD.
2021-09-29T13:41:46 < jadew> I think they're preparing to blame them for whatever happens next.
2021-09-29T13:42:55 < jadew> I'm guessing a new market crash and depression.
2021-09-29T13:53:19 < englishman> I sure do appreciate this area’s over investment in green energy
2021-09-29T13:53:40 < englishman> imagine powering a country with water running down a hill
2021-09-29T13:53:50 < englishman> how is anyone going to profit off of that?
2021-09-29T13:57:44 < jadew> That only works in small areas I think, or in not very industrialized ones.
2021-09-29T14:05:35 < englishman> I guess that’s some kind of diminutive insult?
2021-09-29T14:06:28 < jadew> Heh, no, I mean the generation capacity must be limited.
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2021-09-29T14:10:57 < englishman> are there any forms of unlimited generation?
2021-09-29T14:11:20 < englishman> I guess nuclear 
2021-09-29T14:16:14 < jadew> Yeah, nuclear works well, but it's not about being unlimited, but about ability to scale.
2021-09-29T14:17:49 < jadew> You could make nuclear plants or coal plants on demand.
2021-09-29T14:18:12 < mouseghost> tell that to people here smh
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2021-09-29T14:33:25 < srk> fusion :)
2021-09-29T14:33:43 < srk> jadew: trouble is it takes long and costs a lot
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2021-09-29T15:10:28 < veverak> Hi folks, friend of mine has weird problem with stm32 that is puzzling, he is using `HAL_FLASH_Program(0x0,0x8010000,data)` to load data into memory (I inserted the real values propagated in the code). It fails and reports "bad memory alignment" error in the registers, any tips how to approach?
2021-09-29T15:10:36 < veverak> the addr is aligned
2021-09-29T15:11:01 < veverak> and in this instance the HAL is not really doing much to screw it
2021-09-29T15:12:08 < jpa-> when you say "in the registers", which register and which bit do you mean, on which STM32 model?
2021-09-29T15:12:25 < veverak> will ask him, it's stm32g431
2021-09-29T15:12:40 < jpa-> shouldn't the first argument be number of bytes to write or something?
2021-09-29T15:12:54 < jpa-> ah, it is FLASH_TYPEPROGRAM_BYTE
2021-09-29T15:14:21 < jpa-> also, i assume it is the 128 kB flash model because the address is at 64kB?
2021-09-29T15:14:37 < veverak> yup
2021-09-29T15:15:05 < veverak> FLASH->SR points to the error register, value is 0xa0 - 10100000 which should be generic & memory alignm. error
2021-09-29T15:15:32 < veverak> "Flash status register"
2021-09-29T15:17:58 < jpa-> i wonder if STM32G431 can program bytes
2021-09-29T15:18:15 < qyx> me too
2021-09-29T15:18:41 < jpa-> from the reference manual i get the impression that only FLASH_TYPEPROGRAM_DOUBLEWORD would be supported
2021-09-29T15:19:42 < qyx> it has ECC too, 8 bits per 64 bits
2021-09-29T15:19:57 < qyx> which would imply the smallest programmable chunk is a double word
2021-09-29T15:20:48 < qyx> The Flash memory is programmed 72 bits at a time (64 bits + 8 bits ECC).
2021-09-29T15:21:02 < qyx> yeah 3.3.7 of RM 0440
2021-09-29T15:21:13 < veverak> jpa-: yup, DOUBLEWORD is used
2021-09-29T15:23:19 < qyx> veverak: no
2021-09-29T15:23:21 < qyx> #define TYPEPROGRAM_BYTE        ((uint32_t)0x00)  /*!< Program byte (8-bit) at a specified address           */
2021-09-29T15:23:25 < qyx> as jpa- says
2021-09-29T15:23:58 < qyx> he probably wanted #define TYPEPROGRAM_DOUBLEWORD  ((uint32_t)0x03)
2021-09-29T15:26:23 < veverak> wait
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2021-09-29T15:27:18 < veverak> qyx: where did you find that def?
2021-09-29T15:27:27 < veverak> #define FLASH_TYPEPROGRAM_DOUBLEWORD    0x00U              /*!< Program a double-word (64-bit) at a specified address.*/
2021-09-29T15:27:37 < veverak> he is using this from stm32g4xx_hal_flash.h
2021-09-29T15:28:10 < qyx> interesting, I grabbed the first I found, assuming it is HAL, it should properly abstract something across families
2021-09-29T15:28:46 < qyx> #define FLASH_TYPEPROGRAM_DOUBLEWORD    0x00U              /*!< Program a double-word (64-bit) at a specified address.*/
2021-09-29T15:28:49 < qyx> fuck the hal
2021-09-29T15:28:53 < qyx> jpa-: where did you find it?
2021-09-29T15:29:41 < veverak> anyway, he stepped throu it with gdp and can confirm that the internal FLASH_Program_DoubleWord is called :)
2021-09-29T15:29:50 < veverak> s/gdp/gdb
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2021-09-29T18:15:00 < Helmholtz> So what do people use for IoT server side API? RESTful? Is openAPI popular?
2021-09-29T18:15:12 < Helmholtz> (in embedded space)
2021-09-29T18:16:58 < qyx> I am using mosquitto presonally
2021-09-29T18:17:55 < Helmholtz> oh, wasn't aware of that
2021-09-29T18:18:23 < Helmholtz> but webdevs (openAPI) have much better tooling 
2021-09-29T18:18:34 < mawk> a plain udp-to-http converter, and then a plain http endpoint that stores requests in a database
2021-09-29T18:18:43 < mawk> and answers right away with the first thing in the send queue
2021-09-29T18:24:35 < tct> anybody in here used ST HAL for 9-bit SPI mode recently? Data on shows up correctly on the logic analyzer in 8-bit mode but I fail to get expected results in 9-bit mode.
2021-09-29T18:25:33 < mawk> I tried, yes
2021-09-29T18:25:37 < mawk> but I didn't succeed
2021-09-29T18:25:41 < tct> how cum?
2021-09-29T18:25:46 < tct> what problems did you encounter?
2021-09-29T18:25:56 < mawk> my device also supported 8-bit + 1 GPIO, so I tried for 10 minutes to make 9-bit spi work and then I gave up
2021-09-29T18:26:14 < tct> lol
2021-09-29T18:26:15 < tct> alright
2021-09-29T18:26:46 < mawk> what do you see in the LA for the 9-bit mode
2021-09-29T18:26:54 < mawk> how did you configure the spi for 9-bit also, with cube?*
2021-09-29T18:27:13 < tct> m_cfg.spi_handle.Init.DataSize = SPI_DATASIZE_9BIT;
2021-09-29T18:27:35 < tct> then passing an uint16_t to HAL_SPI_Transmit() and using ´1´ for the Size parameter
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2021-09-29T18:28:17 < mawk> maybe you have to left-align the data?
2021-09-29T18:28:42 < mawk> like data << 7 instead of data
2021-09-29T18:28:52 < mawk> are you extra-sure about that size parameter also?
2021-09-29T18:29:10 < tct> the size parameter is the thing I am least sure about but the source code and various community.st.com posts would suggest so
2021-09-29T18:29:23 < tct> oh, I should probably set the LA back to 9-bit mode q__q
2021-09-29T18:29:43 < mawk> don't read community.st.com
2021-09-29T18:29:46 < mawk> just read the source code
2021-09-29T18:29:52 < mawk> people always lie on forums
2021-09-29T18:29:58 < tct> I really like the long loading times of community.st.com
2021-09-29T18:30:05 < tct> it makes my day so much better
2021-09-29T18:30:11 < mawk> lol
2021-09-29T18:30:15 < qyx> 53 weeks?
2021-09-29T18:30:19 < tct> LOL
2021-09-29T18:30:28 < tct> asked ST for some MEMS microphones... 88 weeks.... 
2021-09-29T18:30:29 < qyx> oh load time
2021-09-29T18:30:31 < mawk> so have you tried left alignment tct ?? also are you sure your data is big endian????
2021-09-29T18:30:40 < tct> mawk, I am checking things
2021-09-29T18:30:48 < mawk> o
2021-09-29T18:32:27 < tct> found the problem
2021-09-29T18:32:50 < tct> forgot to set LA back to 9-bit mode after confirming that 8-bit mode works and a memory copy issue 
2021-09-29T18:32:57 < tct> thanks for the help :)
2021-09-29T18:33:02 < mawk> o
2021-09-29T18:54:07 < tct> mawk, why would be people be lying on (the) forum tho/
2021-09-29T18:59:40 < Ecco> Hi :)
2021-09-29T19:08:04 < Ecco> I have a few (probably dumb) questions regarding USB Type-C
2021-09-29T19:08:34 < Ecco> I want to update a "slave" device that's really just a USB1.1 sink to USB Type-C
2021-09-29T19:08:58 < Ecco> -> I think all I need to do is tie both CC1 and CC2 to ground, each with their own 5.1k resistor
2021-09-29T19:09:22 < Ecco> Questions: 1/ Do i need to add an ESD protection on CC pins? I mean, there's just a resistor…
2021-09-29T19:09:45 < Ecco> 2/ Could I use the extra SBU1/2 pins to add an UART connexion? That could be useful! 
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2021-09-29T23:17:42 < kakium69> hello innovators
2021-09-29T23:21:08 < kakium69> Ecco: don't bother with CC pin protection
2021-09-29T23:50:14 < Steffanx> Hello kakium69 what's brewing?
2021-09-29T23:50:39 < kakium69> not much steff
2021-09-29T23:50:46 < kakium69> friend is in lapland
2021-09-29T23:50:55 < kakium69> I asked him to bring a reindeer
2021-09-29T23:52:33 < Steffanx> Aha, will you butcher it?
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2021-09-29T23:58:42 -!- kakium6986 is now known as kakium69
--- Day changed Thu Sep 30 2021
2021-09-30T00:07:39 < Steffanx> Isnt it time for a new nick, kakium69 ?
2021-09-30T00:07:53 < Steffanx> I already forgot what nick you used to have 
2021-09-30T00:07:56 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-30T00:08:43 < kakium69> I need to innovate new nick
2021-09-30T00:09:19 < Steffanx> What was your previous nick again?
2021-09-30T00:45:04 < steve_> "new name, same crappy product" - ACME, Inc.  XD
2021-09-30T00:53:47 < bitmask> ello
2021-09-30T00:55:58 < mouseghost> le xd
2021-09-30T01:04:44 -!- ventyl [~ventyl@bband-dyn225.95-103-1.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
2021-09-30T01:07:15 < Steffanx> Old kakium69 was difficult 
2021-09-30T01:07:20 < Steffanx> Different I mean. Lol
2021-09-30T01:08:08 < kakium69> a little freudian slip there
2021-09-30T01:09:33 < Steffanx> One day when I'm bored enough I'll try to find what it was before kakimir 
2021-09-30T01:09:47 < kakium69> kakimir
2021-09-30T01:11:56 < Steffanx> No..
2021-09-30T01:12:16 < Steffanx> *47
2021-09-30T01:12:21 < bitmask> kakidoodledoo
2021-09-30T01:12:51 < Steffanx> 47
2021-09-30T01:12:56 < bitmask> 47
2021-09-30T01:13:04 < kakium69> agent 47?
2021-09-30T01:14:10 < zyp> Ecco, yes, 5.1k to ground is enough, and no, they don't need ESD protection as they are just resistors
2021-09-30T01:15:21 < kakium69> if we really think about it zyp
2021-09-30T01:15:24 < zyp> as for SBU, yes, you can use them for custom stuff, but you're supposed to negotiate it before outputting anything, so that you don't risk damaging anything if you plug into another device also using SBU for custom stuff
2021-09-30T01:15:34 < kakium69> ESD can damage resistors
2021-09-30T01:15:50 < zyp> and remember that SBU1 and SBU2 are swapped if you flip the connector
2021-09-30T01:16:07 < kakium69> especially if it's continuous discharges
2021-09-30T01:16:25 < kakium69> but in this case it's not any importance
2021-09-30T01:16:45 < zyp> kakium69, what sort of ESD protection are you planning to add that will withstand whatever can damage a 5.1k resistor?
2021-09-30T01:17:30 < kakium69> just bigger resistor dimensions
2021-09-30T01:17:58 < kakium69> if it will be zapped then not use 0402
2021-09-30T01:19:26 < kakium69> if it will be seriously zapped constantly then see for high power rated resistors
2021-09-30T01:19:54 < kakium69> http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/63129/esd_tn.pdf
2021-09-30T01:23:46 < kakium69> and by power I don't mean the dissipation but the peak power it can take
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2021-09-30T01:30:19 < kakium69> if it was seriously zapped constantly it would need also some sort of voltage clamping device
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2021-09-30T03:24:44 < bitmask> nice, xcode supports c++20 now
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2021-09-30T03:52:18 < octorian> Is there any off-the-shelf way to connect a Segger J-Link to the STDC14 debug port that ST is now kinda/sorta pushing with the ST-Link v3?
2021-09-30T03:53:32 < octorian> (if I can't find some sort of off-the-shelf adapter, I might be tempted to just design/make one myself. I'm just always worried about getting pinouts wrong, and there's always lead time on any such project.
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2021-09-30T07:06:47 < octorian> Well, its not pretty, but it actually works! https://photos.app.goo.gl/iPsj3JtfiTtkXQLF9
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2021-09-30T09:02:38 < steve_> octorian I can't quite explain why but that was hilarious
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2021-09-30T12:43:15 < Steffanx> Hi kakeman. 
2021-09-30T12:52:08 < oz4ga> octorian: How about a converter like this one? https://www.olimex.com/Products/ARM/JTAG/ARM-JTAG-20-10/
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2021-09-30T12:56:08 < zyp> wat, are they doing STDC14 to TC2070 now=
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2021-09-30T13:07:46 < karlp> octorian: did you not really want just jlink to tag connect?!
2021-09-30T13:09:48 < zyp> haha
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2021-09-30T13:34:59 < Laurenceb> sup
2021-09-30T13:35:09 < Laurenceb> anyone here used TMS320?
2021-09-30T13:35:21 < Laurenceb> this CCS shit is making me reeeeee
2021-09-30T13:35:40 < Laurenceb> code works when I flash, but reset or power up causes failure
2021-09-30T13:36:30 < Laurenceb> super weird
2021-09-30T13:38:43  * Laurenceb is trying to make I2C work on TMS320
2021-09-30T13:47:06 < englishman> Is the chip shortage really that bad
2021-09-30T14:05:23 < Steffanx> I used tms320c6678 Laurenceb 
2021-09-30T14:05:26 < Steffanx> In ccs 5
2021-09-30T14:05:33 < Steffanx> Wanna cry with me?
2021-09-30T14:07:41 < Laurenceb> lol
2021-09-30T14:07:59 < Laurenceb> ok this is just stupid
2021-09-30T14:08:01 < Steffanx> Oh it was 6672. Dual core 1 GHz 
2021-09-30T14:08:12 < Laurenceb> chaos crew insist on using simulink
2021-09-30T14:08:25 < Steffanx> 66xx has a wonderful errata regarding i2c though
2021-09-30T14:08:37 < Laurenceb> I thought maybe it was an issue with jtag or bootloaders
2021-09-30T14:08:42 < Steffanx> It can get stuck. And requires a complete cpu reset
2021-09-30T14:08:43 < Laurenceb> but cant see anything
2021-09-30T14:08:47 < Laurenceb> lol wow
2021-09-30T14:08:52 < Laurenceb> this is c2000
2021-09-30T14:13:29 < Laurenceb> gunna try on a production pcb rather than the dev board
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2021-09-30T14:25:30 < Laurenceb> looks like XRDY is never set
2021-09-30T14:31:58 < Laurenceb> and NACK flag is forced high at reset when power is maintained
2021-09-30T14:32:23 < Laurenceb> looks like simufail code never clears it, maybe thats the issue
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2021-09-30T16:04:03 < Ecco> Regarding my question about (ab)using SBU pins
2021-09-30T16:04:16 < Ecco> I wonder if I can simply connect them to an STM32 GPIO
2021-09-30T16:05:40 < Ecco> If I read the spec correctly, you're supposed to negotiate before anyone does anything with those pins
2021-09-30T16:06:17 < Ecco> So, as long as the STM32 doesn't negotiate anything, is it safe to assume that the other side of the cable will just let the SBU pins floating?
2021-09-30T16:06:33 < Ecco> Or could someone randomly drop 5V in there, frying the GPIOs?
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2021-09-30T16:39:06 < GenTooMan> Ecco, you mean USB?
2021-09-30T16:41:42 < mawk> usb goes pretty fast
2021-09-30T16:41:47 < mawk> unless you use the lowest mode
2021-09-30T16:42:02 < mawk> also it's a differential pair with specific resistances needed, I'm not sure you can use gpio for it but why not
2021-09-30T16:46:51 < qyx> GenTooMan: SBU
2021-09-30T16:47:22 < qyx> Ecco: I would protect them in either case
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2021-09-30T17:11:13 < octorian> oz4ga, karlp, zyp, The problem with that adapter is that it misses the extra pins used for serial on the STDC14 connector.  And yes, that's basically an STDC14<->TC2070 you see plugged into it.
2021-09-30T17:26:22 < Ecco> qyx: yeah, well, as soon as you connect GPIOs to the outer world yeah, you probably need some form of ESD protection
2021-09-30T17:26:32 < Ecco> but my question was more about sustained overvoltage
2021-09-30T17:26:46 < Ecco> Like, could a someone legitimately put 5V on an SBU pin?
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2021-09-30T17:53:44 < jpa-> Ecco: if your product is fried after someone plugs it to some random chinese charger, what does it matter whether it was legitimate or not?
2021-09-30T17:54:18 < jpa-> if you can put some series resistors there, it offers at least some protection
2021-09-30T18:00:06 < octorian> Okay, is Ecco talking about USB or SBU?  And if the intended acronym is really SBU, then what does SBU stand for?
2021-09-30T18:00:28 < zyp> sideband use
2021-09-30T18:01:30 < zyp> Ecco, number one purpose of SBU is analog audio, simple TRS to usb-c adapters hooks the signals to SBU
2021-09-30T18:02:03 < zyp> number two use is displayport aux channel
2021-09-30T18:02:28 < karlp> octorian: but where is the stdc14 connecotr? your target board had tag connect? 
2021-09-30T18:02:57 < zyp> Ecco, also, usb-c spec defines how devices needs to treat all the pins before negotiating anything
2021-09-30T18:03:30 < zyp> karlp, presumably on the other end of the tag-connect cable
2021-09-30T18:03:49 < zyp> and the board got a TC2070 footprint with a STDC14 pinout
2021-09-30T18:03:55 < zyp> which is eww
2021-09-30T18:03:56 < octorian> karlp, the target board has a Tag-Connect connector with the same pinout as STDC14, so I can use a TC cable that connects directly to an STLink3.  A different project of mine (that doesn't use TC) directly has an STDC14 connector on its board.  I like my debug hardware to be interchangeable.
2021-09-30T18:04:20 < octorian> Why is that eww?
2021-09-30T18:04:20 < karlp> yeah, eww.
2021-09-30T18:05:15 < octorian> None of the other "standard" pinouts seem to bother including those serial/uart pins, and I find that quite useful to have.
2021-09-30T18:05:19 < zyp> octorian, because it's stupid to have not only two but three different tag-connect footprints for swd
2021-09-30T18:07:03 < karlp> uart on a debug connector was st shotting into their feet.
2021-09-30T18:08:13 < mawk> why
2021-09-30T18:08:15 < octorian> So to make you people happy, I should just have a second cable coming off the board for that?
2021-09-30T18:08:27 < zyp> yes
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2021-09-30T18:10:07 < karlp> or just use swo or rtt if it's for debug anyway
2021-09-30T18:10:15 < karlp> if it's for end user, it shouldn't be in the debug port.
2021-09-30T18:10:23 < zyp> exactly
2021-09-30T18:11:00 < karlp> throwing uarts away because people can't be arsed to learn about the debug features available to them....
2021-09-30T18:11:13 < karlp> just as well st normally has plenty of uarts :)
2021-09-30T18:12:56 < zyp> if it's just printing, just use an ITM channel over SWO, and if it's a full shell I'd rather put it on USB or something
2021-09-30T18:16:39 < octorian> Not every MCU has SWO.  And (maybe its a different problem) most SWO output utilities seem significantly shittier than your average serial terminal app.
2021-09-30T18:17:02 < karlp> ok, keep fucking around with cabling then :)
2021-09-30T18:17:26 < karlp> you're also in tag connect hell, so there's that too :) (this channel is a divided camp on tag connect itself)
2021-09-30T18:17:46 < zyp> I'm all for TC2030-CTX, but fuck using anything else for swd
2021-09-30T18:17:49 < jpa-> i usually put UART on debug pin header if i have a free one and i'm not short on space
2021-09-30T18:17:59 < karlp> but mixnig tag connect _and_ st's totally new and incompatible with everyone footprint is always going to be fun
2021-09-30T18:18:06 < englishman> tag-connect is great, for msp430
2021-09-30T18:18:37 < zyp> I also like TC2030-CTX-ETM on paper, haven't tested them in practice yet
2021-09-30T18:18:45 < octorian> If I use an ST-Link v3, and stick to 14-pin cables that plug directly into it without pin rearrangement or adapters, I'm really not in cabling hell.
2021-09-30T18:19:49 < zyp> splitting the 20-pin trace cable in a TC2030 for debug and TC2050 for trace has the advantage that it's modular
2021-09-30T18:20:16 < zyp> cable will still work with debug only targets and debug only cables will still work with trace capable targets
2021-09-30T18:21:27 < octorian> Okay, if I only use Segger J-Link, then I can use Segger RTT instead of UART for debug print output.  But if I want to be compatible with an STLink, I still need the UART output.
2021-09-30T18:22:41 < jpa-> on devices without SWO, you can always just connect USART TX pin in its place
2021-09-30T18:22:44 < karlp> you can use rtt with opencd and stlink too...
2021-09-30T18:24:28 < octorian> But will the 3rd party utilities to view it end up conflicting with any debuggers I may also want to attach to the target at the same time?
2021-09-30T18:25:13 < karlp> you're already conflicting when you're trying to put your uart on the same cable as your swd...
2021-09-30T18:25:15 < jpa-> no, but they'll just fail to work half the time :)
2021-09-30T18:25:26 < karlp> you can't just keep chaning the goals :)
2021-09-30T18:25:56 < octorian> No, I'm not conflicting.  Its the same pinout as ST's latest stock debug probe, and it all works just fine.  Its not really an issue unless I suddenly need to use those pins for something else.
2021-09-30T18:26:45 < jpa-> i don't really get this uart hate - if one doesn't want it, who forces to connect it to the header
2021-09-30T18:26:51 < jpa-> can still keep the same pinout
2021-09-30T18:27:08 < karlp> exxcept now you have a 14 pin connector...
2021-09-30T18:27:39 < jpa-> yes, if 14 pin connector is too large, then obviously don't use 14 pin connector..
2021-09-30T18:28:18 < jpa-> (not that the addition of an uart would really need 14 pin connector to start with)
2021-09-30T18:28:56 < jpa-> the inclusion of JTAG is more stupid IMO
2021-09-30T18:28:57 < octorian> The only reason for the 14-pin connector is to be able to use SWD or JTAG without changing pinout.  Which lets ST standardize.
2021-09-30T18:29:27 < octorian> If there was a "standard" SWD+UART pinout that didn't include extra pins for JTAG, I might consider that too.
2021-09-30T18:30:05 < jpa-> there are many standard SWD+UART_TX pinouts, they just call UART_TX SWO :)
2021-09-30T18:30:54 < karlp> stlink 6 pin for instance 
2021-09-30T18:31:24 < karlp> pretty sure cortex-10 lets you use jtag and trace and swd, but st decided to go and be special and add a uart on the end and break compat with everything else
2021-09-30T18:32:14 < jpa-> how does it break compatibility? connectors that don't fit narrower connector or something?
2021-09-30T18:32:29 < karlp> yeah, the old 10 pins ones don't fit on the 14 pin headers.
2021-09-30T18:32:51 < karlp> the edges of the plastic don't fit in the gaps.
2021-09-30T18:32:54 < karlp> it was just a dumb decision
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2021-09-30T20:16:41 < karlp> fucking was tearing my hair out with some spice, finally plotted "3v3" and it was "1.0"
2021-09-30T20:16:57 < karlp> no fucking wonder no opamp was doing no good with a 1v supply....
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2021-09-30T20:18:08 < Steffanx> Lol
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2021-09-30T21:10:31 < upgrdman> anyone know of a chip like a io expander, but for high voltages? i need a lot of digital outputs, at 24V, push-pull (not open-drain)
2021-09-30T21:10:50 < mouseghost> 24V isnt that high voltage 
2021-09-30T21:11:06 < upgrdman> well ya, but i mean, most io expanders are like 3.3v or 5v
2021-09-30T21:11:43 < englishman> shift register?
2021-09-30T21:11:53 < zyp> upgrdman, yes, let me dig them up
2021-09-30T21:12:02 < mouseghost> idk just use a relay??
2021-09-30T21:12:09 < mouseghost> upgrdman, how many is a lot
2021-09-30T21:12:16 < upgrdman> englishman, cool. what shift register can push-pull 24v outputs?
2021-09-30T21:12:32 < upgrdman> mouseghost, 32. relays/ssr's are not practical
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2021-09-30T21:13:01 < mouseghost> is there maybe some transistor which works on 24V?
2021-09-30T21:14:30 < englishman> upgrdman: i used HV509 on my dixie tube clocks
2021-09-30T21:14:33 < mouseghost> Drain−to−Source Voltage VDSS 60 V
2021-09-30T21:14:36 < mouseghost> the hell you talking about
2021-09-30T21:14:42 < mouseghost> cant you just use a mosfet?
2021-09-30T21:14:44 < zyp> upgrdman, e.g. VNI8200XP
2021-09-30T21:14:47 < mouseghost> or am i dumb
2021-09-30T21:15:49 < zyp> or ISO8200AQ
2021-09-30T21:15:58 < upgrdman> thx
2021-09-30T21:16:14 < englishman> lol minimum voltage for HV509 is 50 V. by high voltage i thought you meant high voltage not plc voltage
2021-09-30T21:16:15 < mouseghost> idk idk
2021-09-30T21:16:38 < mouseghost> again, why cant upgrdman use a transistor?
2021-09-30T21:16:41 < mouseghost> pls someone explain that to me
2021-09-30T21:16:59 < englishman> he asked for an io expander
2021-09-30T21:17:09 < upgrdman> zyp, looks like that's high-side only, can't sink current?
2021-09-30T21:17:11 < zyp> mouseghost, he asked for push-pull
2021-09-30T21:17:17 < mouseghost> yeah so?
2021-09-30T21:17:24 < mouseghost> regular io expander and a bunch of mosfets?
2021-09-30T21:17:59 < mouseghost> idk maybe its not-nice-to-use or something
2021-09-30T21:18:07 < mouseghost> i am just now wondering if thats a viable approach
2021-09-30T21:18:11 < mouseghost> in general
2021-09-30T21:18:12 < zyp> upgrdman, hmm, might have missed that
2021-09-30T21:18:21 < mouseghost> because this doesnt feel so wrong
2021-09-30T21:18:42 < upgrdman> mouseghost, then i need 64 nmos + a charge pump for the high-side nmos (or 16 nmos, 16 pmos)
2021-09-30T21:18:42 < zyp> upgrdman, maybe you'll just have to dick around with a bunch of halfbridges?
2021-09-30T21:18:48 < upgrdman> ya
2021-09-30T21:19:03 < mouseghost> whats a charge pump? upgrdman
2021-09-30T21:19:06 < upgrdman> know of a nice quad or octal half-bridge? i've been looking at the DRV8955
2021-09-30T21:19:10 < zyp> there's a quad halfbridge greenpak, but I only think it does 12V, not 24
2021-09-30T21:19:45 < zyp> the advantage of the greenpak would be that you could design in shift register logic (or just drive it with i2c)
2021-09-30T21:20:15 < zyp> but yeah, max 13.2V
2021-09-30T21:20:50 < upgrdman> k
2021-09-30T21:21:27 < upgrdman> ya, i guess i will need to go with those nmos+pmos dual-transistor-so8-thinggys, and a normal io exapnder/shift reg
2021-09-30T21:21:39 < mouseghost> ha! :3
2021-09-30T21:22:51 < qyx> upgrdman: there are chips for industrial source/sinking IO
2021-09-30T21:22:55 < upgrdman> hmm. DRV8955 might be cheaper than manually uses shit loads of fets
2021-09-30T21:23:04 < qyx> upgrdman: with SPI or classic GPIO inputs
2021-09-30T21:23:07 < upgrdman> qyx, ya im hoping to find some :)
2021-09-30T21:23:16 < upgrdman> what category on digikey are they :)
2021-09-30T21:23:22 < qyx> hm, we were using some 8 uput ones
2021-09-30T21:23:24 < qyx> don't remember now
2021-09-30T21:23:29 < qyx> wait a bit
2021-09-30T21:23:49 < zyp> qyx, that's the ones I linked
2021-09-30T21:25:32 < qyx> https://www.st.com/en/power-management/l6374.html may be good too
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2021-09-30T21:26:13 < qyx> zyp: yeah probably
2021-09-30T21:27:00 < qyx> it is much pro
2021-09-30T21:27:01 < mouseghost> you dont really need to install a shitton of fets manually, do you? there are packages of bunch of them in one
2021-09-30T21:27:04 < qyx> out of stock though
2021-09-30T21:27:07 < mouseghost> though granted the power dissipation might be worse
2021-09-30T21:27:09 < zyp> TIOS101 looks cute but expensive
2021-09-30T21:30:34 < mouseghost> DMHC10H170SFJ
2021-09-30T21:30:35 < zyp> MX877 looks perfect if you can even find it
2021-09-30T21:30:51 < zyp> 8 channels, push pull, with built in shift reg
2021-09-30T21:31:08 < zyp> https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/205/MX877-1392060.pdf
2021-09-30T21:31:35 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: unrelated to magic realism but did you read Milan Kundera? I highly recommend if you're interested in European leterature.
2021-09-30T21:31:45 < mouseghost> i havent
2021-09-30T21:32:03 < mouseghost> ill check him out then, thanks
2021-09-30T21:36:01 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: and related to magic realism, Marquez would be the essential name, and his works are like 10x less depressing than Kafka's.
2021-09-30T21:36:34 < mouseghost> gabriel garcia? 
2021-09-30T21:36:36 < mouseghost> heard the name
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2021-09-30T21:40:58 < PaulFertser> mouseghost: yep
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2021-09-30T22:12:43 < kakium69> how long until win10 upgrades to win11 automatically?
2021-09-30T22:13:19 < kakium69> you just go to your pc one day and it's changed
2021-09-30T22:13:32 < kakium69> win11 is already in winupdate option
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2021-09-30T22:16:47 < specing> what
2021-09-30T22:16:54 < specing> didn't they say that win10 will be the last version?
2021-09-30T22:20:44 < oz4ga> they decided otherwise later on
2021-09-30T22:24:37 < Steffanx> i dont see windows 11 kakium69..
2021-09-30T22:25:01 < kakium69> maybe you need to enable beta channel
2021-09-30T22:25:07 < Steffanx> oh beta
2021-09-30T22:25:13 < Steffanx> not interested
2021-09-30T22:26:07 < kakium69> lemme see
2021-09-30T22:26:25 < kakium69> friend just send photo of winupdate downloading win11
2021-09-30T22:27:10 < kakium69> hmm
2021-09-30T22:27:20 < kakium69> it also can be that he has win10 pro
2021-09-30T22:27:24 < Steffanx> i tried win11 in a vm, wasnt not impressed
2021-09-30T22:27:32 < Steffanx> was not*
2021-09-30T22:28:34 < englishman> there are still AMDs for sale that are not eligibile for win11
2021-09-30T22:28:39 < Steffanx> Pro there too
2021-09-30T22:28:52 < kakium69> he has microsoft surface
2021-09-30T22:29:28 < Steffanx> I recall i somewhere read windows will not enforce the cpu. It will just tell you its not supported and you agree that you wont give them shit if it fails.
2021-09-30T22:29:42 < kakium69> https://www.microsoft.com/en-ie/windows/windows-11
2021-09-30T22:30:16 < englishman> sounds safe.
2021-09-30T22:30:59 < englishman> when the new macbook pro comes out next month i'm going to get one for wifeishman. so i'll get to borrow it from time to time. not sure my next laptop will be a windows one
2021-09-30T22:31:04 < kakium69> " The upgrade rollout plan is still being finalised, but for most devices already in use today, we expect it to be ready sometime in early 2022."
2021-09-30T22:31:51 < Steffanx> englishman goes full apple. .. :O
2021-09-30T22:32:12 < kakium69> englishman: "get one for wifeishman" "I'll get to borrow it"
2021-09-30T22:32:14 < englishman> still have chromecast
2021-09-30T22:32:52 < englishman> apparently they are getting rid of the touchbar
2021-09-30T22:33:04 < englishman> and bringing back magsafe, sd card reader and moar USB ports
2021-09-30T22:33:26 < kakium69> and they dumped the shitty keyboard too
2021-09-30T22:33:48 < englishman> i heard the keyboards were crappy for a while, must have missed that
2021-09-30T22:33:57 < Steffanx> i didnt hate my macbook pro though. Just not worth it anymore when you hardly use laptops
2021-09-30T22:34:35 < kakium69> I was about to massivelly fuk up when I was buying laptop
2021-09-30T22:34:49 < kakium69> I had my eye on macbook
2021-09-30T22:35:14 < kakium69> but then got dell xps customer return unit for 600eur
2021-09-30T22:37:07 < kakium69> first I got one for 900eur and returned it next day in sealed box to pick up the same model for 600eur
2021-09-30T22:37:34 < kakium69> "anything wrong with it.. wait you have not even opened it?"
2021-09-30T22:37:54 < englishman> maybe my next laptop will be an ipad.
2021-09-30T22:38:13 < kakium69> ipad pro right?
2021-09-30T22:38:24 < englishman> idk the mini is pretty nice.
2021-09-30T22:38:30 < englishman> i'd have to go try them out
2021-09-30T22:40:45 < Steffanx> my laptop is a dell latitude with touch screen. love the touchscreen part.
2021-09-30T22:41:07 < kakium69> I hate the touchscreen part
2021-09-30T22:41:15 < Steffanx> only downside, when use another laptop you still try to move your finger to the screen
2021-09-30T22:41:29 < Steffanx> You have no idea kakium69
2021-09-30T22:41:37 < kakium69> it mess up the optic appereance of the display
2021-09-30T22:41:58 < kakium69> it's like glossy but with 2 layers of glossy
2021-09-30T22:42:03 < Steffanx> its fine, its not the best screen anyway
2021-09-30T22:42:06 < Steffanx> and its not glossy
2021-09-30T22:42:14 < kakium69> non glossy touch screen what?
2021-09-30T22:42:22 < kakium69> explain
2021-09-30T22:42:29 < Steffanx> its not glossy
2021-09-30T22:42:44 < kakium69> I have never heard of such thing
2021-09-30T22:43:48 < kakium69> it's actually readable display with touch screen?
2021-09-30T22:44:40 < qyx> are you from the past
2021-09-30T22:45:04 < kakium69> yes
2021-09-30T22:45:57 < Steffanx> http://imgur.com/a/G9baqaY
2021-09-30T22:45:59 < Steffanx> Not glossy
2021-09-30T22:46:22 < kakium69> how much?
2021-09-30T22:46:49 < Steffanx> it was new like 1300 euro bucks, i paid 600 euro bucks. 
2021-09-30T22:47:17 < Steffanx> New, in the original package, incl. plastic wrapping shipping from dell 1 month earlier.
2021-09-30T22:47:22 < Steffanx> No clue where it came from :P
2021-09-30T22:47:29 < kakium69> lattitude is like corporate line?
2021-09-30T22:47:36 < Steffanx> Yeahj
2021-09-30T22:48:25 < kakium69> it looks like matte display w/o touch
2021-09-30T22:48:27 < Steffanx> probably fell of a truck somewhere
2021-09-30T22:48:37 < kakium69> like it should look like
2021-09-30T22:48:44 < englishman> i was surprised the macbooks are not touchscreen
2021-09-30T22:49:15 < Steffanx> steve probably didnt approve
2021-09-30T22:50:18 < kakium69> consumer models with touch under 1000eur all have this multi layer reflection glossy shit combined with 250nits
2021-09-30T22:50:57 < Steffanx> Yeah, the nits is lowish on this one, no clue how low, but lowish
2021-09-30T22:51:00 < Steffanx> but i dont care
2021-09-30T22:51:32 < Steffanx> Mainly use it in my CNC men cave.
2021-09-30T22:51:40 < kakium69> if you don't have reflections that overpower the display then it's not that much of issue
2021-09-30T22:51:45 < Steffanx> and overly bright is annoying anyway
2021-09-30T22:52:22 < Steffanx> Brightness on 100% and then use dark themes in editors.
2021-09-30T22:52:22 < kakium69> I only use laptop in total darkness
2021-09-30T22:52:35 < kakium69> with minimum brightness
2021-09-30T22:53:24 < kakium69> and I use f.lux to bring it down even further by dimming the image
2021-09-30T22:54:06 < Steffanx> i found out windows does ~f.lux too nowadays
2021-09-30T22:54:21 < Steffanx> but not as advanced as f.lux
2021-09-30T22:54:22 < kakium69> doesn't replace f.lux
2021-09-30T22:55:01 < kakium69> press alt-pgdn and you get software dimmer
2021-09-30T22:55:10 < englishman> i could probably get by just fine with an ipad mini and a desktop
2021-09-30T22:55:16 < englishman> 5G ipad would be nice too
2021-09-30T22:55:51 < kakium69> friend bought like 10 laptops to figure out he doesn't need any
2021-09-30T22:56:21 < Steffanx> Yeah, me too. Except that it doesnt run what i need it to run.. the ipad
2021-09-30T22:56:44 < kakium69> then you need laptop
2021-09-30T22:57:11 < qyx> doesn't it run ads?
2021-09-30T22:57:15 < englishman> just vm into a desktop
2021-09-30T22:57:28 < englishman> then you can get your MS Dynamics GP no problem
2021-09-30T22:57:49 < englishman> or write an excel frontend in PowerQuery then load the excel over icloud
2021-09-30T22:57:50 < englishman> easy
2021-09-30T22:58:13 < kakium69> :o
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2021-09-30T23:10:20 < kakium69> Steffanx: cnc men cave?
2021-09-30T23:11:28 < kakium69> all these years
2021-09-30T23:12:14 < kakium69> and I have not heard about it
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2021-09-30T23:56:46 < Steffanx> Yeah, the place where my cnc is located, kakeman 
--- Log closed Fri Oct 01 00:00:23 2021