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2026-03-01T20:11:37 < mawk> use FIDO2 for your contact smartcard authenticator qyx
2026-03-01T20:11:42 < mawk> then it's fairly standard 
2026-03-01T20:12:01 < mawk> and you can use a jewbikey or anything compatible 
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2026-03-01T20:14:59 < mrec> finally I decided to couple an FPGA with the STM32, I need to support something like a lightweight serdes channel.
2026-03-01T20:15:28 < mrec> lots of data in the nanosecond area, constantly playing ping pong with a controller
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2026-03-01T21:29:31 < mawk> what for
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2026-03-02T01:15:34 < karlp> because they hated stm32 timers, so they added an fpga :O)
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2026-03-02T06:54:10 < mrec> no timers are fine but they cannot keep up with that now
2026-03-02T06:54:44 < mrec> all the previous timer work is in place and works but this (the next project) isn't suitable for the STM32
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2026-03-02T06:56:00 < mrec> it's a synchronisation link between two entities, I will only send changes via spi to the stm32
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2026-03-02T10:46:56 < qyx> today I woke up with the intention to redo my SJA1105 board and simply switch 4x 10mbit/s in software because it looked much simpler
2026-03-02T10:47:30 < qyx> but as 1. I really need SJA1105 working for two other boards and 2. the board looks like 98% done
2026-03-02T10:47:45 < qyx> I am finishing it, I hate finishing things
2026-03-02T11:07:48 < mawk> me too
2026-03-02T11:08:08 < mawk> I don't think I ever properly finished one project
2026-03-02T11:08:26 < mawk> 80% finished with bare wires coming out is good enough 
2026-03-02T11:08:37 < mawk> it's the cyberpunk aesthetic 
2026-03-02T11:08:56 < qyx> what's why we work in r&d
2026-03-02T11:48:22 < karlp> cute, 65V LDO to 3.3v.... https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/onsemi/NCP737ADN330R2G/26858467
2026-03-02T11:55:25 < mawk> not even with heat spreader
2026-03-02T11:56:00 < karlp> 48v to 3.3, at half rated load, 2.2W into the package :)
2026-03-02T12:00:36 < zyp> hmm, 15uA Iq
2026-03-02T12:00:54 < karlp> I mean, I can see it being useful for things, I'm not a hater :)
2026-03-02T12:01:11 < qyx> I was about to say the only legit use case for such a "LDO" is to act as a standby regulator
2026-03-02T12:01:21 < qyx> but not with 15 uA Iq
2026-03-02T12:01:38 < karlp> I think 15uA is fine when you're talking about a 48/60v system....
2026-03-02T12:01:44 < karlp> this isn't running off a coin cell.
2026-03-02T12:02:25 < mawk> maybe off 20 coin cells
2026-03-02T12:02:42 < zyp> yeah, 15uA sounded like a lot to me too, but do you have a buck that beats it?
2026-03-02T12:03:23 < qyx> probably not but a LDO can do better
2026-03-02T12:03:39 < karlp> from 48/60V?
2026-03-02T12:03:57 < qyx> why not, whats different?
2026-03-02T12:03:58 < karlp> don't look, I sure odn't need one
2026-03-02T12:05:38 < qyx> out of 12 LDOs with Vin_max >= 60 V TI offers, half of them has Iq < 15 uA
2026-03-02T12:05:55 < zyp> going by digikey filters, the best 65V-capable LDO has 5uA Iq
2026-03-02T12:06:30 < qyx> tps7a43 or 44, yeah
2026-03-02T12:06:45 < zyp> those are 9uA according to digikey
2026-03-02T12:06:51 < qyx> 5.5 according to TI
2026-03-02T12:07:29 < qyx> anyway, yes, it doesn't matter
2026-03-02T12:07:38 < qyx> where it does matter is for BMS
2026-03-02T12:07:46 < zyp> we're still talking same order of magnitude
2026-03-02T12:08:10 < qyx> but the argument about 60 V systems not being coin cells is valid
2026-03-02T12:09:15 < qyx> with a 100 Ah pack and cutting off on UVLO, having the last 1% of SoC
2026-03-02T12:09:36 < qyx> that's still 1 Ah which is 7 years
2026-03-02T12:09:44 < qyx> if I am doing the math correctly
2026-03-02T12:10:06 < zyp> if you're doing a BMS, can't you just tap the bottom one or two cells instead of the whole pack?
2026-03-02T12:10:19 < zyp> and thereby use a lower input but better Iq regulator
2026-03-02T12:10:34 < qyx> you will misbalance the cells
2026-03-02T12:10:41 < qyx> unbalance, whatever
2026-03-02T12:11:35 < zyp> I figure that would be negligible and compensated for every time the BMS rebalances the pack
2026-03-02T12:12:27 < zyp> and if you're still worried about that, you can just throw a resistor matching the average draw across the rest of the pack
2026-03-02T12:14:23 < qyx> https://amphenolltw.com/product-info/Metric+Circular+Connector/M-Series.M8/M8S-03PFFR-SF8001.html
2026-03-02T12:14:30 < qyx> lol they swapped igs and stp models
2026-03-02T12:46:35 < karlp> ok, fixed my weird sht30 "doesn't recover" thing
2026-03-02T12:46:44 < karlp> I wasn't actually clearing my i2c transactions properly.
2026-03-02T12:46:57 < karlp> had a bad pointer I didn't see the warning from until i recompiled properly.
2026-03-02T12:47:08 < karlp> wasn't clearing i2c status falgs before starting a new transaction.
2026-03-02T13:55:17 < qyx> mostly routed https://bin.jvnv.net/file/1XoRH/Screenshot_2026-03-02_12-54-51.png
2026-03-02T15:32:17 < karlp> is that t1s?
2026-03-02T15:37:41 < zyp> t1l maybe?
2026-03-02T15:38:38 < qyx> t1s
2026-03-02T15:39:12 < qyx> yes, no
2026-03-02T15:39:38 < qyx> mainly power and domain separation
2026-03-02T15:39:50 < qyx> no, I couldn't have all devices on the same bus
2026-03-02T15:40:02 < qyx> did I miss some question? :P
2026-03-02T15:43:45 < zyp> how do you tee them when there's only one connector per PHY?
2026-03-02T15:43:55 < zyp> or is this always just the end of the chain?
2026-03-02T15:51:48 < qyx> yes this is end of the chain only
2026-03-02T15:53:24 < qyx> basically a fanout to multiple sensor chains
2026-03-02T15:55:17 < qyx> almost finished https://bin.jvnv.net/file/OSaQM/Screenshot_2026-03-02_14-54-50.png
2026-03-02T15:55:32 < qyx> I already spotted multiple bugs
2026-03-02T15:55:49 < qyx> I am not touching them, let's see if it works first
2026-03-02T16:49:00 < machinehum> qyx: What is that?
2026-03-02T16:49:42 < zyp> SPE ethernet switch
2026-03-02T16:49:47 < qyx> t1s ethernet switch
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2026-03-02T17:07:36 < karlp> t1s is is point to point only anyway, only t1l does multidrop
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2026-03-02T18:49:12 < karlp> hrm, if I want PWM output on on a SPI connected io controller, I've got to run a timebase in software and calculate the desired states of all of the pins.  that sounds gross.
2026-03-02T18:49:59 < karlp> even if I could configure timers to not be connected to outputs, I'd still hav eto either pol or interrupt on them to update the output driver.
2026-03-02T18:50:01 < karlp> yuk
2026-03-02T18:50:14 < karlp> we're  using 6 pins for spi plus flags, vs 8 pins for using parallel and jsut having pwm directly.
2026-03-02T18:59:33 < karlp> pro code: https://paste.jvnv.net/view/0wWyS
2026-03-02T19:00:04 < karlp> (this function is then repeated for a different SPI peripheral, copy/paste with the AD_SPI replaced with HW_SPI...
2026-03-02T19:00:14 < karlp> "just port it, it's tested and robust"
2026-03-02T19:09:43 < qyx> karlp: you are the other way around
2026-03-02T19:10:25 < karlp> oh, right, duh.
2026-03-02T19:11:27 < karlp> as best I can tell, this used to offer pwm freq from 1--1000 hz, with pwm from 0..100%, with a 500usec update time...
2026-03-02T19:11:47 < karlp> sooo at 1000hz, you really only got 0/50/100% if I can maths properly.
2026-03-02T19:12:00 < karlp> gonna hav eto find someone who knows what this ireally meant to be fore.
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2026-03-02T23:02:21 < machinehum> catphish
2026-03-02T23:02:32 < catphish> honk
2026-03-02T23:03:06 < machinehum> Have you figured out how much ram these things have?
2026-03-02T23:03:25 < catphish> machinehum: what things?
2026-03-02T23:03:38 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/5ieFVCo
2026-03-02T23:03:48 < machinehum> ch569
2026-03-02T23:07:20 < catphish> machinehum: the datasheet says 32KB SRAM, however... the real answer is more messy i think
2026-03-02T23:08:44 < catphish> for some baffling reason, you can have more RAM at the cost of less flash
2026-03-02T23:08:47 < machinehum> If you don't use the ram for rom you can use it for ram
2026-03-02T23:08:57 < machinehum> catphish: I just finished reading that
2026-03-02T23:09:40 < catphish> my guess is that it has a 128KB flash and a 128KB RAM, but the RAM is used as a cache for the ROM
2026-03-02T23:10:09 < catphish> so if you want larger flash, you have to sacrifice RAM for cache
2026-03-02T23:11:04 < machinehum> Loads from flash into ram and executes?
2026-03-02T23:11:42 < machinehum> Ahh yes
2026-03-02T23:12:10 < machinehum> https://imgur.com/a/tqoaZR0
2026-03-02T23:12:17 < machinehum> "Code running low speed"
2026-03-02T23:18:10 < catphish> i don't have imgur here
2026-03-02T23:18:32 < catphish> but yes my suspicion is that it copies or caches flash into RAM
2026-03-02T23:18:48 < catphish> so you have to sacrifice (from 128k total) as much RAM as you have flash
2026-03-02T23:19:12 < machinehum> Makes sense
2026-03-02T23:19:15 < catphish> 64k/64k will probably work well for me
2026-03-02T23:19:27 < machinehum> Just ordered my USB-A to USB-A
2026-03-02T23:19:39 < catphish> i just ordered a board with a CH569 on it
2026-03-02T23:20:10 < catphish> https://i.ibb.co/TM7xYC0z/scope-digital.jpg
2026-03-02T23:21:04 < machinehum> Nice
2026-03-02T23:21:39 < machinehum> Are you talking to the FPGA with HSPI ?
2026-03-02T23:21:40 < catphish> i got my dev board working, but i haven't actually written any code yet
2026-03-02T23:21:51 < catphish> machinehum: that's the plan, i haven't actually tried yet
2026-03-02T23:22:30 < catphish> i've connected HSPI and SPI - the plan is to program and control the FPGA with SPI, and just stream data with HSPI
2026-03-02T23:24:23 < machinehum> Nice
2026-03-02T23:27:10 < catphish> my previous prototype using FPGA + FT601 works perfectly
2026-03-02T23:27:38 < catphish> but... i think it would be better to make it field programmable, an the CH569 is also much cheaper
2026-03-02T23:27:54 < catphish> so the FTDI version, while working, is on hold while i experiment a bit
2026-03-02T23:29:21 < machinehum> You just make this LA for you?
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2026-03-03T01:54:50 < catphish> machinehum: no, i'm very much hoping to sell it
2026-03-03T01:56:57 < catphish> if it was just for me i wouldn't care about the cost, or needing a lattice JTAG interface to program it
2026-03-03T01:57:19 < catphish> but i am trying to improve it
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2026-03-03T02:48:40 < zyp> catphish, sounds like you're reinventing https://gitlab.com/yannsionneau/SucreLA
2026-03-03T02:49:11 < catphish> zyp: it's extremely similar
2026-03-03T02:53:09 < catphish> neither is finished yet :)
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2026-03-03T08:34:04 < qyx> hydrasucrela, orangecrabla, sucre.py, sucrela.py
2026-03-03T08:34:08 < qyx> what the hell
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2026-03-03T10:08:20 < qyx> artwork https://bin.jvnv.net/file/K6RtJ/Screenshot_2026-03-03_09-07-58.png
2026-03-03T10:09:14 < zyp> very useful
2026-03-03T10:15:07 < qyx> I hope I get more than 27% in a "I like qyx's capacitors" poll
2026-03-03T10:15:08 < jpa-> it's polite to give each decoupling capacitor its own name
2026-03-03T10:16:44 < jpa-> the C33 label being vertical and C29 being horizontal is a bit disturbing, but after all good art needs to provoke feelings
2026-03-03T10:17:28 < jpa-> and C31.. now that is a real conversation starter at the art gallery!
2026-03-03T10:23:54 < qyx> not all art is for everyone
2026-03-03T10:25:20 < qyx> uh
2026-03-03T10:25:31 < qyx> "coding specialist", what could that mean
2026-03-03T10:26:00 < qyx> sounds like enigma operator
2026-03-03T10:27:38 < jpa-> one special coder
2026-03-03T10:27:52 < zyp> 8b10b operator
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2026-03-03T11:19:58 < qyx> In the meanwhile, new solutions can be created but given the way Open Source now works with everyone having their own master plan for world domination, we need to find someone with time on their hands to do it all so it is coherent & works.
2026-03-03T11:20:02 < qyx> haha
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2026-03-03T13:27:23 < mawk> I'm trying to see if I can replace our shitty UID-only RFID lock with a mifare desfire based thing
2026-03-03T13:27:48 < mawk> there's a SDK to provision the cards from a PC with a java library, there's a android SDK, but doing it from the MCU sounds harder
2026-03-03T13:27:57 < mawk> the protocol details have been mostly leaked but it sucks
2026-03-03T13:28:20 < mawk> also it uses online licence bullshit that decrypts the obfuscated code on the fly
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2026-03-03T13:28:31 < mawk> I requested an offline licence key from NXP, if I get it I will discreetly leak it
2026-03-03T13:28:38 < mawk> that will surely not get me in trouble
2026-03-03T13:28:47 < mawk> I hope there's nobody from NXP on this chat
2026-03-03T13:30:38 < qyx> no
2026-03-03T13:30:42 < mawk> there's always java ME on STM32, maybe I can run java on it lol
2026-03-03T13:31:03 < mawk> that sounds like someone who works at NXP would say qyx 
2026-03-03T13:32:10 < mawk> wow https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm3220g-java.html
2026-03-03T13:32:20 < mawk> love that >The main limitations of the evaluation version are 3 months of use from the first launch and 1 hour of runtime.
2026-03-03T13:33:11 < mawk> it wants like 1MiB of flash to run, too bad
2026-03-03T13:38:01 < mercenary> nice of them to warn you beforehand, so you can set the clock to 2038 for first launch
2026-03-03T13:43:56 < mawk> lol
2026-03-03T13:44:03 < mawk> > 3.3.         You may not translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software except to the extent applicable law specifically prohibits such restriction.
2026-03-03T13:44:04 < mawk> oops too late
2026-03-03T13:47:22 < ventyl> :>
2026-03-03T13:47:55 < ventyl> our law allows reverse engineering for the purpose of making compatible product
2026-03-03T13:57:21 < mawk> I managed to setup the NXP demo app and after patching in support for my reader I can do stuff
2026-03-03T13:57:27 < mawk> the reverse engineering can begin
2026-03-03T13:57:57 < mawk> I want to map out the commands supported by desfire cards
2026-03-03T13:58:14 < mawk> I have all the plain text description of the commands and their arguments; and I want to know what's the binary format
2026-03-03T13:58:34 < mawk> it's encrypted by AES using session keys which is not ideal, but the session key must be somewhere in memory
2026-03-03T14:02:05 < ventyl> I got attention of another "competition" :>
2026-03-03T14:20:17 < mawk> of course they are detecting when I'm trying to step through the code, truly dutch behavior
2026-03-03T14:20:22 < mawk> who ventyl ?
2026-03-03T14:33:37 < ventyl> RTEMS this time
2026-03-03T15:02:35 < mawk> ah I used RTEMS a bit
2026-03-03T15:02:43 < mawk> I had a course on it
2026-03-03T15:22:05 < qyx> *curse
2026-03-03T15:33:12 < mawk> I can talk to my desfire card using NXP's SDK
2026-03-03T15:33:19 < mawk> the documentation is abysmal
2026-03-03T15:36:31 < karlp> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/04ZRm/cirrus-vs-sigmicro-1000pts.png (cs5532 vs sig5532)
2026-03-03T15:36:46 < karlp> china clone looks fine.
2026-03-03T15:45:29 < qyx> I am about to chine too
2026-03-03T15:45:45 < qyx> let's deal with that nonworking jlcpcb part search form
2026-03-03T16:15:02 < mawk> I made an excel macro to autofill my working hours excel sheet to 8 hours per day
2026-03-03T16:15:18 < mawk> and it hides the result if you're looking at dates before last month
2026-03-03T16:15:22 < mawk> so it's discreet
2026-03-03T16:15:33 < mawk> my boss didn't notice so far
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2026-03-03T19:24:48 < Steffanx> Excel for work hours registration. What.. mawk?
2026-03-03T19:25:18 < Steffanx> I think $job uses excel too much, but .... 
2026-03-03T19:29:57 < Steffanx> Also who has macros in excel enabled?!
2026-03-03T20:01:09 < mawk> not macro, formula
2026-03-03T20:01:18 < mawk> well yes I have to put my work hours in excel
2026-03-03T20:01:23 < mawk> to bill the right person or whatever
2026-03-03T20:01:40 < mawk> since we do """""R&D""""" we get some tax refund from the government or something 
2026-03-03T20:01:44 < mawk> clearly bullshit 
2026-03-03T20:03:56 < mawk> my mifare desfire provisioning application is working, I can do it from a PC with any reader
2026-03-03T20:04:05 < mawk> now I need to select some kind of secure scheme
2026-03-03T20:06:18 -!- nerozero [~nerozero@87.253.63.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
2026-03-03T20:13:02 < mercenary> rot13?
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2026-03-03T20:30:45 < bitmask> boom shakalaka
2026-03-03T20:31:14 < bitmask> NBA Jam was the shit
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2026-03-03T22:10:29 < Steffanx> Oh WBSO mawk. 
2026-03-03T22:11:06 < Steffanx> Because of your awesome innovationa
2026-03-03T22:14:56 < qyx> mawk: oh we have that too, I have to append that to my invoices
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2026-03-03T22:43:22 < mawk> yes Steffanx 
2026-03-03T22:43:57 < mawk> like 3 pass mutual authentication with AES or some other secure crap mercenary 
2026-03-03T22:44:04 < mawk> it's just to tick boxes so we can say it's secure
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2026-03-03T22:44:09 < Steffanx> :)
2026-03-03T22:44:14 < mawk> currently it's as stupid as possible it just checks the UID of the card
2026-03-03T22:44:20 < mawk> trivial to clone
2026-03-03T22:45:47 < mawk> all the tags are mifare classic, I implemented the crypto as a side project but it's pointless to use because it's completely broken I don't think it would comply with the rules 
2026-03-03T22:46:05 < mawk> you just need a 30€ proxmark from aliexpress to break it
2026-03-03T22:46:18 < mawk> and you don't even need to have the reader, the card alone is enough 
2026-03-03T22:46:47 < mawk> or a 3€ PN533 breakout board also works
2026-03-03T22:47:30 < mawk> because we use mifare classic EV1 cards which have an asymmetrical signature from NXP, so there is at least one sector with known keys since the signature sector always has the same keys
2026-03-03T22:47:46 < mawk> then you can launch the attack from that known sector 
2026-03-03T22:47:55 < mawk> the signature makes it less secure than regular tags
2026-03-03T22:57:40 < mercenary> see, if that signature were rot13-encrypted, you would not have that problem ;)
2026-03-03T23:00:01 < mawk> yes
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2026-03-03T23:14:34 < polprog> has anybody used DMA in circular buffer mode?
2026-03-03T23:15:01 < polprog> from what I can read, this means that once the transfer is done the DMA controller resets the source/dest address back to the original position
2026-03-03T23:15:20 < polprog> I am curious how this can be chained with UART peripheral
2026-03-03T23:15:46 < polprog> basically, i have a large (16kiB) circular buffer and I would like DMA to keep filling it as soon as a character is received, 
2026-03-03T23:16:13 < polprog> the way I see it now i could set DMA source as the UART RDR, DMA size = 16k
2026-03-03T23:16:27 < zyp> yup
2026-03-03T23:16:42 < polprog> but I'm not sure how to make the DMA stop (wait) when the uart fifo is empty and continue when its got new data in
2026-03-03T23:17:15 < qyx> setup DMA to trigger on RXNE
2026-03-03T23:17:19 < zyp> when it's in P2M mode, it's only moving stuff when triggered
2026-03-03T23:17:47 < polprog> oh good
2026-03-03T23:18:05 < polprog> my only DMA experience so far was the amiga blitter so im a bit confused
2026-03-03T23:18:10 < polprog> but it seems it will work as I expect
2026-03-03T23:24:19 < mawk> you might want to use the half transfer interrupt so you can safely transfer half the buffer while the other half is being written to polprog 
2026-03-03T23:24:29 < mawk> if you don't mind waiting for the buffer to fill up
2026-03-03T23:29:31 < qyx> can anyone confirm I can use 74LVC2G16 (powered from 5 V) to drive mosfets with 5 V from a 3V3 MCU?
2026-03-03T23:29:49 < qyx> I am using 74HCT2G16 now
2026-03-03T23:30:33 < mawk> why not>?
2026-03-03T23:30:54 < qyx> because
2026-03-03T23:30:58 < qyx> despite this
2026-03-03T23:30:59 < qyx> The 74LVC2G16 is a dual buffer. Inputs can be driven from either 3.3 V or 5 V devices. This feature
2026-03-03T23:31:02 < qyx> allows the use of these devices as translators in mixed 3.3 V and 5 V environments.
2026-03-03T23:31:42 < qyx> they later say that V_IH (when VCC = 4.5 - 5.5 V) is 0.7 * VCC
2026-03-03T23:32:01 < qyx> which obviously wouldn't work with a 3V3 inputs
2026-03-03T23:32:08 < zyp> I think I've used a similar part before to uptranslate to 5V
2026-03-03T23:33:02 < zyp> SN74LV1T34
2026-03-03T23:35:17 < zyp> qyx, yeah, your part looks useless
2026-03-03T23:35:39 < qyx> but why the hell are they saying it
2026-03-03T23:36:46 < zyp> because you're apparently allowed to use it the other way, it's 5V tolerant on the input when running at 3.3V
2026-03-03T23:37:14 < qyx> according to this https://embarcados.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Chart-of-Low-Voltage-IC-Switching-684x510.png
2026-03-03T23:37:43 < qyx> I need ACT/HCT/AHCT/FCT
2026-03-03T23:37:46 < qyx> using HCT now
2026-03-03T23:38:36 < qyx> but the only 2G16 in the JLC catalog is LVC, nah
2026-03-03T23:41:35 < zyp> use a pair of SN74LV1T34 then?
2026-03-03T23:51:57 < qyx> ok looks like the cheapest alternative
2026-03-03T23:52:03 < qyx> but I need to redo the PCB
2026-03-03T23:52:33 < mawk> I received my new javacard
2026-03-03T23:52:35 < mawk> my collection is growing
2026-03-03T23:52:48 < mawk> this time it has all the proper algorithms for on-card key generation
2026-03-03T23:53:08 < mawk> and a very spacious 160KiB of flash
2026-03-03T23:55:12 < mawk> it has a biometry package and one of the supported biometry method is "body odor"
2026-03-03T23:55:13 < mawk> lol
2026-03-03T23:56:18 < mawk> and "DNA scan", I hope the conspirationists don't find this documentation
2026-03-03T23:58:27 < polprog> mawk: good point
2026-03-03T23:58:55 < mawk> some STM32s also support double buffering which might be better in your specific case
2026-03-03T23:58:57 < polprog> though im not worried about that, it will either make it on time over the network or not
2026-03-03T23:59:14 < mawk> ah then half transfer interrupt is fine
2026-03-03T23:59:18 < polprog> id like to avoid double buffering, to have one larger buffer
--- Day changed Wed Mar 04 2026
2026-03-04T00:00:18 < mawk> well it doesn't matter, it's two half buffers
2026-03-04T00:00:23 < mawk> the size is the same in the end
2026-03-04T00:00:29 < mawk> all it does is allow you to read safely from a buffer
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2026-03-04T08:03:02 < ventyl> OK, to moze na piatich testoch nazbierat aj 13 sekund
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2026-03-04T10:31:12 < qyx> ventyl: to si pis
2026-03-04T10:33:46 < mawk> how do you get TLS certificates to your devices
2026-03-04T10:34:07 < mawk> if you're lucky and you ship the device right after a renewal you've got 15 years
2026-03-04T10:34:21 < mawk> but you might change hosting provider during the lifetime or anything 
2026-03-04T10:34:33 < mawk> or have mirrors with other certificates
2026-03-04T10:35:07 < mawk> I was thinking of a HTTP endpoint that returns the current certificate with a HMAC hash
2026-03-04T10:35:21 < mawk> and the device and server share the HMAC secret
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2026-03-04T10:38:33 < qyx> wat
2026-03-04T10:39:00 < qyx> what devices, what certificates
2026-03-04T10:50:23 < mercenary> what is the difference in functionality between that and having a hard-coded certificate with no expiry date?
2026-03-04T10:51:27 < qyx> of course you can update public certificates as part of your secure OTA
2026-03-04T10:51:48 < qyx> it is done like this on major relevant operating systems
2026-03-04T10:52:20 < qyx> sorry, s/public/CA
2026-03-04T10:52:27 < qyx> all certificates are public
2026-03-04T10:52:53 < mercenary> same principle. you have a top secret key that signs the OTA upgrade (we all do this don't we?) that can override what the device trusts
2026-03-04T10:59:36 < qyx> ok, how the hell a RS485 hub works
2026-03-04T11:01:36 < c10ud> convert rs485 back to ttl and then feed multiple phys?
2026-03-04T11:01:42 < mercenary> RS485 hub? ne'er heard of such a thing. But I'd imagine something like a bidirectional level shifter, where both levels happen to be the same
2026-03-04T11:02:59 < c10ud> but range extender could be more correct than hub
2026-03-04T11:03:59 < qyx> it fans out
2026-03-04T11:04:12 < qyx> it can have one uplink and eg. 8 downlinks
2026-03-04T11:04:28 < qyx> eg https://www.elecom.sk/industrial-grade-isolated-8-ch-rs485-hub--rail-mount-support--wide-baud-rate-range-2/
2026-03-04T11:04:40 < mercenary> 'hub' or 'switch' functionality?
2026-03-04T11:05:08 < qyx> hard to say what it does, I see it for the first time now
2026-03-04T11:09:31 < mercenary> 'optical isolation', so probably more switch/bridge functionality
2026-03-04T11:11:26 < mercenary> uplink channel is just a big 'OR' of all downlink channels, all downlink channels follow uplink channel.
2026-03-04T11:15:53 < qyx> apparently this could work for basic request-response protocols
2026-03-04T11:20:02 < mercenary> yup. looking more at it, probabliy pure hub functionality like that. And don't try to run anything where any node can start sending after checking that the bus is clear.
2026-03-04T11:20:29 < qyx> I plan to trash it a replace with ethernet switches
2026-03-04T11:20:54 < mercenary> (could even work, if all channels are a big 'OR of all other channels', but then there wouldn't be a specific designated uplink
2026-03-04T11:20:57 < mercenary> )
2026-03-04T11:21:50 < mercenary> yes please. RS485 is nice, for small or very remote things. ethernet is nicer for all other things
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2026-03-04T11:42:41 < karlp> qyx: I've seen that sort of thing before to provide modbus esque addressing to dumber rs485 protocols that were point to point, or for things with fixed addresses.
2026-03-04T11:43:40 < karlp> the older versions of these for instance, https://en.papouch.com/tht2-i-interior-thermometer-and-hygrometer-p2910/ defaulted to a proprietary protocol, that had fixed addresses
2026-03-04T11:43:50 < karlp> you could change it, but.... people come up with all sorts of dumb reasons.
2026-03-04T11:45:23 < karlp> ok this one is just a dumb wiring repeater?
2026-03-04T11:45:28 < karlp> who the fuck knows wha tthat's for.
2026-03-04T11:45:44 < karlp> I guess it lets you do star wiring without dealing with reflections?
2026-03-04T11:45:48 < mercenary> optical isolation is probably the biggest reason
2026-03-04T11:45:56 < karlp> you don't need the 8 way split for that though.
2026-03-04T11:46:59 < mercenary> for a bunch of devices that all can have large common-mode offsets, it is cheaper than 8 isolators and 8 rs422 ports
2026-03-04T11:47:00 < karlp> yeah, waveshare site has better english
2026-03-04T11:47:10 < karlp> actaully says "when you need to use star wiring, use this"
2026-03-04T11:48:44 < karlp> I hate that everyone uses the same pale blue in that case format though.
2026-03-04T11:49:28 < mercenary> my favourite nightmare was a setup with something like 6 loops, 32 devices/loop, mounted about a meter apart. No connectors, so if one device shorted the loop, avg. 16 devices to open and disconnect screw terminal
2026-03-04T11:50:39 < mercenary> bit of clever bin-searching could bring that down to 4 or 5
2026-03-04T11:52:19 < karlp> yeah, best thing we ever did for our installers was introducing pre-made y-cables for making the bus.
2026-03-04T11:52:36 < karlp> we didn't have space for and up/down connector on each device.
2026-03-04T11:57:09 < mercenary> nice. in that setup, after a year or two, money was found to retrofit IP68 connectors ($$, which was why they weren't there in the first place)
2026-03-04T12:01:51 < qyx> karlp: idk what is it, I haven't been on the site yet, just gazing at some papers now
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2026-03-04T12:26:01 < qyx> zyp: decided to use IR4427STR (C20623183)
2026-03-04T12:26:13 < qyx> dual low side mosfet driver
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2026-03-04T13:10:08 < mawk> TLS certificate qyx 
2026-03-04T13:10:14 < mawk> for https
2026-03-04T13:11:08 < mawk> the OTA will happen over HTTPS as well so I need a way to get out of the situation where the certificate is expired and I can't do OTA anymore
2026-03-04T13:11:29 < mawk> mercenary: because the remote server is AWS with their own certificate, we don't want to have to put a custom one
2026-03-04T13:13:13 < mercenary> mawk: AWS shouldn't expire. so what expires?
2026-03-04T13:14:27 < mawk> what do you mean it shouldn't expire
2026-03-04T13:14:31 < mawk> they all have an expiry date
2026-03-04T13:14:33 < mercenary> [openbsd nicely avoids this problem by doing updates over http, not https, and only trusting the distribution key]
2026-03-04T13:15:22 < mawk> often they are valid 25 years, but depending when they are issued you can have a certificate change within the product lifetime
2026-03-04T13:15:34 < karlp> mawk: you can put whatevwer date you like....
2026-03-04T13:15:49 < karlp> mercenary: yah, openwrt does that too.
2026-03-04T13:15:51 < mawk> it's a generic AWS instance with AWS certificates, we can't change them
2026-03-04T13:15:53 < mercenary> they all have an expiry date, up to you if you check for it. But, something on AWS you can replace.
2026-03-04T13:15:57 < jpa-> and debian
2026-03-04T13:17:17 < jpa-> it seems safer too, as website SSL certs can be compromised in many ways, but if your build infrastructure is compromised to leak the signature key, you are in trouble anyway
2026-03-04T13:18:27 < mawk> the device needs to have the corresponding root certificate for the remote server in order to check it, and the modem only accepts one at a time, the right one needs to be loaded for the remote host you're currently talking to
2026-03-04T13:18:52 < mercenary> back to the question, what expires in 25 years? The trust root that the AWS certs are issued against?
2026-03-04T13:19:14 < mawk> not in 25 years, 25 years after the issuance date which could be anytime in the past, but yes
2026-03-04T13:19:34 < mawk> I haven't checked the one of AWS yet since we don't have the stuff setup so far
2026-03-04T13:19:39 < mawk> could be less than 25 years too
2026-03-04T13:20:28 < mercenary> generally is, more like 10 or 15 years. the whole PKI thing is not built for devices that do not get updated for 5 years or longer.
2026-03-04T13:21:07 < mawk> idk I'm just looking at the root cert for our website, that one is 25 years
2026-03-04T13:21:19 < mawk> "sectigo public server authentication root R46"
2026-03-04T13:22:01 < mercenary> I thought I'd seen newer ones for 15 years, but I could be wrong. Anyway, just ignore the whole problem, and do OTA over http.
2026-03-04T13:25:06 < mercenary> The whole point of it is 'OTA trusts something hardcoded in the device. If that is your update key, or some aws cert, does not matter'
2026-03-04T13:28:27 < mercenary> (in fact, probably better to not have it trust a domain. I remember a case where a company went bust, let their domain lapse, and someone bought the domain and started serving 'updates' to any devices still out in the field)
2026-03-04T13:29:47 < mawk> the average of all root certificates on my machine is 24.14 years
2026-03-04T13:30:07 < mawk> it's not just for OTA, it's for regular communication with our servers
2026-03-04T13:30:22 < mawk> but even for OTA the devops people said no when I asked to do plain HTTP since the firmware is already encrypted and signed
2026-03-04T13:30:32 < mawk> "too much work to do that on AWS" they said
2026-03-04T13:32:35 < mawk> and the median is 27 years for root certificates on my machine as well
2026-03-04T13:33:00 < mawk> or 25 rather
2026-03-04T13:33:57 < mercenary> document it. "Since devops thinks it too much work to enable http OTA, devices that are not updated before trust root expires will be bricked. The device will start demanding 'Please Update Me' one year before expiry".
2026-03-04T13:33:58 < karlp> mawk: your modem only having one certa at a time sounds like the lol-est part of this :)
2026-03-04T13:34:07 < mawk> yeah that's ublox
2026-03-04T13:34:21 < mawk> you can save several certs in memory but you have to select the one you want to validate with before opening the TLS socket
2026-03-04T13:34:36 < karlp> I bet it's sold as "easy! selfcontained!"
2026-03-04T13:34:42 < mawk> lol
2026-03-04T13:35:44 < mawk> it's not just expiration mercenary , if for any reason we go to another hosting provider we need to change the root certificate too
2026-03-04T13:35:51 < mawk> and there's not enough memory in the modem to save them all
2026-03-04T13:35:56 < mawk> it would have to be dynamically swapped
2026-03-04T13:36:19 < mawk> alternatively we could do TLS in software with mbedtls but that will eat all the remaining flash
2026-03-04T13:36:33 < mawk> it's all because of this regulatory bullshit
2026-03-04T13:38:36 < mercenary> or just create your own CA cert valid for 100 years, and cross-sign any trust root you want to include with that. But that may require access to the trust root's privkey to generate the csr.
2026-03-04T13:45:15 < karlp> doing your own CA is probably "simplest" but not often considered corect :)
2026-03-04T13:45:34 < karlp> but if you're the only one goign to be doing the validation, you don't need to give a shit about browsers saying "oh noes! we don't recognise this root ca!"
2026-03-04T13:48:53 < mercenary> doing own CA is only right when everything that uses it is under your control yes
2026-03-04T13:49:00 < karlp> error: commit 5028de0: * must end with "."
2026-03-04T13:49:02 < karlp> error: commit 5028de0: * first word of subject ("migrate") must be capitalised.
2026-03-04T13:49:08 < karlp> I feel like this helps quality so much....
2026-03-04T13:59:05 < Steffanx> Lolwut karlp 
2026-03-04T14:03:51 < mercenary> For a short while, we could use 'things without spelling or grammar errors are at least not AI-generated'. Now the AI wants to even take that distinction away.
2026-03-04T14:09:44 < karlp> lol swedes... https://www.ebcu.org/blog/2026/03/03/beer-and-food-belong-together-so-why-does-swedish-law-disagree/
2026-03-04T14:15:50 < mercenary> What I find even more amazing is that there is such a thing as a Beer Consumers Union. What happens when that union goes on strike?
2026-03-04T14:16:07 < karlp> there's more than one form and usage of the word union
2026-03-04T14:18:17 < jpa-> the answer for "what happens when union .." is usually "undefined behavior"
2026-03-04T14:18:26 < karlp> lol
2026-03-04T15:48:03 < qyx> karlp: I hope you end all commits with a dot
2026-03-04T15:53:40 < mercenary> .
2026-03-04T15:56:58 < jpa-> git commit -am 'I fixed it...'
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2026-03-04T17:18:09 < qyx> oh theres apparently also https://jlcpcb.com/parts/2nd/ which mostly works (the "2nd"-less one doesn't for me/my connection)
2026-03-04T17:24:06 < qyx> zyp: also I found 2EDN7534B (mouser) and FD2024S (jlc) which are both sot23-6, dual low side drivers working at 5 V
2026-03-04T17:24:38 < qyx> they also have compatible footprints, I guess I am using these
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2026-03-04T19:58:40 < bitmask> hi ho hi ho, its off to work we go (yea right)
2026-03-04T19:58:46 < bitmask> whats up
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2026-03-04T20:12:55 < bitmask> omg
2026-03-04T20:13:19 < bitmask> i just sat on my usb cable charging my laptop and broke it right off at the wall wart end
2026-03-04T20:13:40 < zyp> maybe don't do that
2026-03-04T20:13:54 < bitmask> oh ok thanks
2026-03-04T20:15:20 < bitmask> i dont even know if I have another usb c to usb c cable :/ that was my phone charging cable too :P
2026-03-04T20:15:49 < zyp> I suggest buying ten then
2026-03-04T20:16:22 < zyp> ikea sittbrunn is cheap and nice
2026-03-04T20:16:53 < bitmask> k
2026-03-04T20:16:58 < qyx> is there ikea in usland
2026-03-04T20:17:48 < mawk> I javacarded very hard today
2026-03-04T20:18:06 < mawk> it's overrun with legacy tools and confidential stuff behind NDA
2026-03-04T20:18:08 < zyp> qyx, yes: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/sittbrunn-usb-a-to-usb-c-lilac-60595984/
2026-03-04T20:18:14 < zyp> oh, wrong variant
2026-03-04T20:18:20 < mawk> but I finally made my own FIDO2 card from scratch
2026-03-04T20:18:30 < zyp> https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/sittbrunn-usb-c-to-usb-c-light-green-30595985/
2026-03-04T20:19:49 < mawk> slitbrown
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2026-03-04T20:46:16  * qyx @ skalmold
2026-03-04T20:51:05 < mawk> slackmold
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2026-03-04T22:53:57 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/gicBc
2026-03-04T22:54:02 < qyx> unbelievable output ripple
2026-03-04T22:54:50 < qyx> this is UCC28740
2026-03-04T22:55:41 < qyx> probably my feedback is too much low pass filtered
2026-03-04T23:02:07 < mawk> it's pretty 
2026-03-04T23:02:29 < mawk> your ripple has got ripple
2026-03-04T23:02:32 < qyx> yeah looks like despite the feedback loop prompt response, the switcher doesn't start switching https://bin.jvnv.net/file/7fsnO/feedback-load-2A.png
2026-03-04T23:02:57 < qyx> .. at the right time
2026-03-04T23:03:41 < qyx> and also my snubber overheats
2026-03-04T23:04:04 < mawk> is a filter dephasing the feedback
2026-03-04T23:05:23 < qyx> https://bin.jvnv.net/file/KKUzy/HM20260304213532.jpeg
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--- Day changed Thu Mar 05 2026
2026-03-05T00:22:52 < karlp> fucking zephyr miniblink doesn't blink the led.
2026-03-05T00:23:06 < karlp> prints to the console that it's blinking, so that's good enough to verify it flashed at least though
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2026-03-05T02:02:30 < nomorekaki> hello night pros
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2026-03-05T12:23:07 < qyx> poor mouser https://bin.jvnv.net/file/NcEyE/Screenshot_2026-03-05_11-22-45.png
2026-03-05T12:26:20 < karlp> what am I looking at?
2026-03-05T12:26:54 < mercenary> induction
2026-03-05T12:27:53 < mercenary> and inconsistent product descriptions. some specify package, some current, some precision, some nothing.
2026-03-05T12:38:28 < qyx> ordering inductors for RF matching, 0402, 10 pieces each line
2026-03-05T12:38:48 < qyx> so much work for 1 eur total
2026-03-05T12:39:37 < nohit> but you are ordering other things too ?
2026-03-05T12:40:11 < qyx> of course, otherwise they would put me in jail
2026-03-05T12:45:43 < nohit> min order for me is 50e so i dont need to pay delivery costs
2026-03-05T12:46:15 < nohit> but i have started to use lcsc
2026-03-05T12:47:00 < qyx> whats your whereabouts
2026-03-05T12:47:11 < nohit> finland
2026-03-05T12:47:29 < qyx> hm is it feasible?
2026-03-05T12:47:55 < nohit> lcsc? yes
2026-03-05T12:48:04 < karlp> isn't min only 30€?
2026-03-05T12:48:06 < jpa-> i generally take at least 50 or 100 if i order some passives, i'll eventually need them anyway
2026-03-05T12:48:22 < qyx> 50€ for me
2026-03-05T12:48:29 < jpa-> 50e free shipping limit to me to
2026-03-05T12:48:51 < qyx> how many 1.8 pF capacitors have you used in your life jpa-? :P
2026-03-05T12:49:29 < nohit> €9.36 was the last shipping fee from lcsc
2026-03-05T12:49:31 < jpa-> i have none, but 2 pF maybe 10-20
2026-03-05T12:49:52 < qyx> nohit: europacket?
2026-03-05T12:50:12 < nohit> Global Direct Standard Line
2026-03-05T12:52:19 < jpa-> actually i do have 1.8pF in the assortment (50pcs each of the common values), and looks like i have used 13 pcs of 1.8 pF 0603 and none of the 1.8pF 0402 caps
2026-03-05T12:52:54 < jpa-> but the china assortment is a bit unreliable for the small capacitances
2026-03-05T12:54:12 < qyx> lol you actually checked
2026-03-05T12:54:56 < jpa-> looks like i have separately only bought 0.3 pF and then 10pF is next
2026-03-05T12:55:45 < jpa-> the assortments begin at 0.5 pF but the 0.5 pF vs. 0.75 pF behaved somehow identically when i tried to tune some opamp stuff
2026-03-05T13:07:07 < qyx> finished ordering after 3 hours
2026-03-05T13:23:18 < karlp> 0.25pf is going to be affected by the shape of your soldering and shit right?
2026-03-05T13:23:25 < karlp> and how oily your fingers were that morning?
2026-03-05T13:24:15 < qyx> yeah
2026-03-05T13:25:06 < jpa-> not really, such things are more on the below 0.1pF level
2026-03-05T13:25:44 < jpa-> pcb trace length does affect though, especially on stackups where distance is just 0.1 mm to groundplane
2026-03-05T13:27:15 < jpa-> as long as you don't put so much solder that it overflows the pad edges, its effect will be much smaller because air has 4x smaller permittivity and nearby stuff is further away than the 0.2 or 0.1 mm PCB layer distance
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2026-03-05T17:03:57 < mawk> I tried using a RFID blocking card on our device at work, interesting results
2026-03-05T17:04:01 < mawk> the mcu browns out and reboots
2026-03-05T17:06:38 < qyx> sounds like a quality device
2026-03-05T17:14:27 < mawk> yes
2026-03-05T17:14:39 < mawk> you can also try to fuzz the anticollision phase of ISO 14443-3 on readers, that breaks some of them
2026-03-05T17:14:43 < mawk> I should try that
2026-03-05T17:14:57 < mawk> by sending a UID that's too big
2026-03-05T17:24:33 < qyx> usb2512 is our gold standard for legit 2-port USB HS hub?
2026-03-05T17:24:55 < karlp> kinda old, but sure, should be fine, donno about "gold standard"
2026-03-05T17:25:11 < qyx> haven't browsed zypsnips yet
2026-03-05T17:25:17 < karlp> nothing there on hub parts
2026-03-05T17:25:55 < karlp> now, how do I run this fucking old jdk swt app on current linux.
2026-03-05T17:26:04 < karlp> I managed to run modus toolbox via wayland ina c ontainer
2026-03-05T17:26:13 < karlp> but this old german shit is giving me weird x11 dbus issues.
2026-03-05T17:26:28 < qyx> usb2422 is even smaller
2026-03-05T17:26:45 < karlp> the china clone tssop works fine too.
2026-03-05T17:26:52 < karlp> fe1.1s and it's clone clone
2026-03-05T17:26:55 < qyx> fe1.1?
2026-03-05T17:26:58 < qyx> hm
2026-03-05T17:27:21 < karlp> I put them on my keyboard board, worked just fine for the stm32 in dfu behind it plus downstream ports
2026-03-05T17:27:34 < karlp> I havent' done full temp range tests but... "works good"
2026-03-05T17:27:39 < qyx> I have a board-in-a-cable thing on my diagnostic cable, converting usb-c into a 6 pin lemo with ttl-uart *and* usb-hs
2026-03-05T17:28:10 < qyx> I will probably design it to be moldable or whatever
2026-03-05T17:29:24 < qyx> also, I wouldn't touch a german java swt app even with a 3m stick
2026-03-05T17:29:38 < karlp> https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C6776948.html?s_z=n_%2520fe1.1%2520 in wqfn24
2026-03-05T17:30:51 < karlp> this allegedly works too, but I've not tried it: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C2684433.html
2026-03-05T17:31:18 < karlp> I put the fe1.1s -B on my board, https://kicanvas.org/?repo=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fkarlp%2Fdas-kb4-bara2%2Ftree%2Fmain%2Fhw%2Fr2023-12 it's NRND now, but the -C is available and cheap, meant to be "better"
2026-03-05T17:31:58 < karlp> and terminus is "proper" (taiwan) not west china..... if you buy into that sort of thing...
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2026-03-05T18:20:02 < karlp> let's try a fucking actual VM
2026-03-05T18:20:07 < karlp> fucking german quality
2026-03-05T18:24:46 < mawk> https://imgur.com/a/eqKUpyX the RFID blocking card works from pretty far away
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2026-03-05T19:00:43 < karlp> ok, it works inside ubu 2204 with the right version of the jdk
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2026-03-05T19:26:04 < karlp> whee podman run --rm -e XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/tmp  -v $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/$WAYLAND_DISPLAY:/tmp/$WAYLAND_DISPLAY -e DISPLAY --security-opt label=type:container_runtime_t -v.:/project  -it icc7:u2204
2026-03-05T19:26:11 < karlp> a differently weird invocation to make it work..
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